It is disappointing to read so many white people in denial. I had an AA friend/co-worker in a department store in the 1980s. Both of our husbands would occasionally come into say hi if we were working at night. Her AA husband was always followed by security; my white guy-- never. Security was not shy in admitting that "our policy is to follow all black people." Points: a) if you follow all black people you will catch some of them shoplifting; if you do not follow all white people you will not catch them. Ergo the result that more black people got caught for shop lifting led security to say that more black people shop lift. That is statistically NUTS, and racist! b) this husband was on the preppy side if anything, in looks, experience, education and beliefs. But what does it do to black people over time to be subjected to this treatment, and why don't white people "get it" or even wonder how that might feel?
15
You are guilty of "Switching the Subject". Let us make order, is there any evidence for the deaths that motivated this so called racial unrest? No there is no physical evidence. If there is no physical evidence for these so called capital crimes, there is no basis for the motivation for unrest. Unrest does not prove capital crimes. That is not logical.
3
Main lesson we haven't learned from Watts?
It's impossible to build a house with gasoline, especially when Barack Obama, Al Sharpton and the mainstream news media are standing beside you playing with matches.
Sincerely,
A Black Conservative
Trump 2016
It's impossible to build a house with gasoline, especially when Barack Obama, Al Sharpton and the mainstream news media are standing beside you playing with matches.
Sincerely,
A Black Conservative
Trump 2016
17
August 11, 2015
"We still haven't learned...," We indeed know in the information age that's universal competitive and to quote: “I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge. That myth is more potent than history. That dreams are more powerful than facts. That hope always triumphs over experience. That laughter is the only cure for grief. And I believe that love is stronger than death.”
― Robert Fulghum, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten"
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
"We still haven't learned...," We indeed know in the information age that's universal competitive and to quote: “I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge. That myth is more potent than history. That dreams are more powerful than facts. That hope always triumphs over experience. That laughter is the only cure for grief. And I believe that love is stronger than death.”
― Robert Fulghum, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten"
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
50 Years Later, We Still Haven’t Learned From Watts
We should have learned that race riots are destructive!
We should have learned that race riots are destructive!
12
So what the rest of America called the Watts Riots is now "unrest" which became an "uprising". No it was rioting and looting.
18
In 1944, the GI Bill was passed. Among other things, the bill allowed veterans to get guaranteed housing loans to help purchase newly built housing constructed in the suburbs in America. After the end of WW II, all GI’s were eligible for these loans…except African-Americans (AA). AAs by and large did not receive these loans. Despite the fact that they fought for the US, they were generally excluded from the new suburban housing. Values of the new suburban housing substantially increased and those who lived there benefitted greatly (financially) from this. Meanwhile, many AAs were basically forced to remain in city or rural areas; in places where housing values generally either stagnated or actually decreased; in places of decidedly inferior education. It also didn’t help that regional investments primarily went towards the suburbs, not cities. What resulted was increasingly run-down and distressed communities in cities and prosperous (or relatively prosperous) suburbs. You did not hear of a “permanent black underclass” before this bill. Now, “African-American” became intrinsically linked with “poverty”. When they were finally allowed into the suburbs, they found that their new neighbors would flee, believing that AAs in their neighborhood meant depreciating housing values. Of course perception became reality and property values fell when “too many” AAs moved into a neighborhood.
I believe, this bill is a major reason why race relations is as bad as they are today in the US.
I believe, this bill is a major reason why race relations is as bad as they are today in the US.
13
good point - can you provide a link to your source?
2
The GI Bill is still in effect and hundreds of thousands of black veterans have taken advantage of it to buy houses and attend college. Although the GI Bill has always applied equally to African-American veterans, back WWII veterans who could afford them had trouble buying houses because many banks refused to make mortgage loans in black neighborhoods and many home builders wouldn't sell them houses in white subdivisions. And a disproportionate number of black vets couldn't to buy homes due to discrimination in hiring. Thousands of black WWII vets did take advantage of the law to attend college, but many college still refused to accept black students. However, enrollment at black college doubled between 1940 and 1950 due to the GI Bill. The fault was not with the GI Bill, but racism in the civilian world.
11
And that riot worked out so well for the people living in Watts or Detroit for that matter.
15
The purpose of a riot is never to "work out well". Riots aren't planned, generally. They are mostly spontaneous outpourings of anger, rage, grief, and frustration welling up all at once because 'legitimate' ways to get grievances addressed haven't work. You don't usually see riots by people who feel like the government listens to them and cars about them, who feel well-served by the police and justice system, and who have adequate housing and schooling. No, you see riots by people who feel like there is literally no other way that they will ever be heard.
And whether it was 1965 or now, Watts or Ferguson, the people rioting weren't wrong. No one was listening before they rose up. So you tell me- did it work? We're talking now about racial disparity in traffic stops, about milking poor minorities of their hard-earned money through traffic fines, excessively harsh parole conditions, and court fees, about the resegregation of schools. We weren't before. I think it worked, especially if policy changes because of this.
And whether it was 1965 or now, Watts or Ferguson, the people rioting weren't wrong. No one was listening before they rose up. So you tell me- did it work? We're talking now about racial disparity in traffic stops, about milking poor minorities of their hard-earned money through traffic fines, excessively harsh parole conditions, and court fees, about the resegregation of schools. We weren't before. I think it worked, especially if policy changes because of this.
5
I don't know how to solve the problems of poverty, but I think we should start by asking the oppressed people addressed in this article what they want? Help them develop their own solutions. Local government will provide the resources to develop local solutions. And please, discard some of the trite solutions of paying teachers more and jobs programs.
3
This approach has long since been started.
What Do the Poor Need? Try Asking Them
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/david-l-kirp-what-do-th...
What Do the Poor Need? Try Asking Them
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/david-l-kirp-what-do-th...
"In doing so, we cast these tragedies as discrete incidents — and escape our larger social responsibility."
An instinctive assumption that the police usually are wrong & the rioters were engaging only in their legitimate right of protesting will only perpetuate such confrontations.
People who actively & passively support the violent protests do not realize they ARE NOW making the matter worse, but mostly for the African-American community. If I sound I am critical only of the protesters, there is some truth in it. I am neither white nor black. I am a naturalized Indian American.
The vast majority of A. Americans, especially women are more decent than whites. But the MISGUIDED young black men are TOO militant. What they don't realize is that, the power has always been in white hands. It's an illusion that A. Americans have power. They just don't. Those who have nothing to lose stir the pot to make them, the stirrers feel good, are hurting the genuine black cause.
MLK, Jr. was indeed a great man. He commanded enormous respect also. He sacrificed his life, VOLUNTARY SO, for his cause to help his people. Unfortunately, he was cut down by a white racist. If he were alive, he would be critical of the way his disciples conduct themselves hurting the original cause.
What A. Americans got has been a GIFT from the white people who felt guilty of their collective sin. That guilt has been transformed into withdrawal & silence long ago. If they say anything, it will be misconstrued.
An instinctive assumption that the police usually are wrong & the rioters were engaging only in their legitimate right of protesting will only perpetuate such confrontations.
People who actively & passively support the violent protests do not realize they ARE NOW making the matter worse, but mostly for the African-American community. If I sound I am critical only of the protesters, there is some truth in it. I am neither white nor black. I am a naturalized Indian American.
The vast majority of A. Americans, especially women are more decent than whites. But the MISGUIDED young black men are TOO militant. What they don't realize is that, the power has always been in white hands. It's an illusion that A. Americans have power. They just don't. Those who have nothing to lose stir the pot to make them, the stirrers feel good, are hurting the genuine black cause.
MLK, Jr. was indeed a great man. He commanded enormous respect also. He sacrificed his life, VOLUNTARY SO, for his cause to help his people. Unfortunately, he was cut down by a white racist. If he were alive, he would be critical of the way his disciples conduct themselves hurting the original cause.
What A. Americans got has been a GIFT from the white people who felt guilty of their collective sin. That guilt has been transformed into withdrawal & silence long ago. If they say anything, it will be misconstrued.
9
Your logic is impeccable and will not mean a thing to apologists for thuggery.
5
Sir, just what is this “Gift” that African Americans received from the “good white folk” in exchange for:
--300 years of uncompensated labor that went into building individual and institutional white wealth that continues to this day;
--100 years of Jim Crow segregation – “Slavery by Another Name;
--discriminatory and racist federal policies that created white wealth while simultaneously creating the ghettos and black poverty;
--segregated housing;
--inferior schools;
--and mass incarceration?
I am sorry, but I missed it.
--300 years of uncompensated labor that went into building individual and institutional white wealth that continues to this day;
--100 years of Jim Crow segregation – “Slavery by Another Name;
--discriminatory and racist federal policies that created white wealth while simultaneously creating the ghettos and black poverty;
--segregated housing;
--inferior schools;
--and mass incarceration?
I am sorry, but I missed it.
9
Speaking for King isn't necessary, especially since you misrepresent him, along with the fact that he spoke for himself on the subject many times.
"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
10
I vividly remember this from my father, who heard the same thing from my grandfather:
"If you want to make something good out of your life, you are going to have to get an education, work hard and act like you got some sense."
Those words control every choice I have ever made as a Black man in America. And growing up with very little money, but two parents who worked hard, did the best they could and loved their children, worked.
Looting, rioting, disrespecting and attacking the police officers who are on the streets to keep ME safe? Never.
If I have a dispute with a public servant, I discuss that problem with them. Calmly. In English. Using my inside voice. And if I am angry, I wait until I can do those things BEFORE I act.
If that doesn't work, I vote for the candidate who will fix that problem, or I don't stop voting until I find someone who will.
I choose to find ways to be a productive citizen who loves my country.
There's no excuse for anyone of any race not to do the same.
"If you want to make something good out of your life, you are going to have to get an education, work hard and act like you got some sense."
Those words control every choice I have ever made as a Black man in America. And growing up with very little money, but two parents who worked hard, did the best they could and loved their children, worked.
Looting, rioting, disrespecting and attacking the police officers who are on the streets to keep ME safe? Never.
If I have a dispute with a public servant, I discuss that problem with them. Calmly. In English. Using my inside voice. And if I am angry, I wait until I can do those things BEFORE I act.
If that doesn't work, I vote for the candidate who will fix that problem, or I don't stop voting until I find someone who will.
I choose to find ways to be a productive citizen who loves my country.
There's no excuse for anyone of any race not to do the same.
31
Thank you for being sane.
5
TDurk, you'll always be able to find black people who spout respectability politics--who thus are your allies in denouncing militancy.
1
We don't care. The NY Times and the rest of the liberal media seems to think that most whites see things the same as black do. We don't - we see things exactly the opposite. All polls confirm this. The lesson of Watts, from this white guy's perspective, is that when you riot and loot, you should be shot. When you don't listen to the police, they are allowed to shoot you.
7
Anyone committed to social justice in the world ignores this white person's comment at their peril. Let's read it again:
"The lesson of Watts, from this white guy's perspective, is that when you riot and loot, you should be shot. When you don't listen to the police, they are allowed to shoot you."
This argument contends that Sandra Bland avoided what should have been her execution at the hands of Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia.
"The lesson of Watts, from this white guy's perspective, is that when you riot and loot, you should be shot. When you don't listen to the police, they are allowed to shoot you."
This argument contends that Sandra Bland avoided what should have been her execution at the hands of Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia.
2
The danger of comparative history such as this is that important details and nuance can be lost in the attempt to construct a unified, and at times overly simplistic, narrative. This article most definitely runs into this pitfall -- you should not bring up the recent riots of Baltimore in this context without at least noting that its mayor (Stephanie Rawlings-Blake) is black and that the officers involved were charged by a black state attorney (Marilyn Mosby.) In fact, half of the police officers involved in the Freddie Gray incident were black. Ironically, while Professor Theoharis decries the use of "thug", Stephanie Rawlings-Blake used that very word when describing the crimiminal acts of the rioters. These facts do not eliminate the role of race, but they definitely stand in contrast to the narrative of oppressive white racism.
Furthermore, the Justice Department did not fault the officer involved in the Ferguson shooting. Yes, it did recognize systemic issues of racism, but again, the fact that the Ferguson officer most likely acted in self-defense should be noted, as it does not fall within this neat narrative of oppressive racism.
Unlike in the 50s and 60s, the biggest problem today is not race, but poverty. Some of that is due to the legacy of racism and slavery, but the former is no longer the large contributing factor it once was.
Furthermore, the Justice Department did not fault the officer involved in the Ferguson shooting. Yes, it did recognize systemic issues of racism, but again, the fact that the Ferguson officer most likely acted in self-defense should be noted, as it does not fall within this neat narrative of oppressive racism.
Unlike in the 50s and 60s, the biggest problem today is not race, but poverty. Some of that is due to the legacy of racism and slavery, but the former is no longer the large contributing factor it once was.
11
I say this as a Black attorney in Washington DC who managed to work his way through college and law school, and took any job I could find until I finally got the career job:
If the same young Black person running the streets, shirtless with his pants around his ankles throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails or firing bullets at police officers would:
1) Stop throwing rocks, Molatov cocktails or firing bullets at police.
2) Put on a dress shirt
3) Pull his pants up
4) Get a meeting in the office of his U.S. Representative, mayor, city council member or business leader, explain that he was once running the streets, throwing rocks and Molatov cocktails, but loves his country, wants to become a productive citizen of the United States and would like help finding a way to turn his life around, and
5) Dedicate the next 12 months of his life to doing whatever he is given a chance to do,
I guarantee you that kid would see a dramatic difference.
But that's not the message we see and hear from the establishment (liberal) news media, Obama WH or VIP's like Rev. Al Sharpton. Instead we hear accusations, anger and divisiveness.
Why haven't we learned the lessons of Watts?
Because learning takes effort and commitment.
Looting takes a scarf and something to use to break something.
If the same young Black person running the streets, shirtless with his pants around his ankles throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails or firing bullets at police officers would:
1) Stop throwing rocks, Molatov cocktails or firing bullets at police.
2) Put on a dress shirt
3) Pull his pants up
4) Get a meeting in the office of his U.S. Representative, mayor, city council member or business leader, explain that he was once running the streets, throwing rocks and Molatov cocktails, but loves his country, wants to become a productive citizen of the United States and would like help finding a way to turn his life around, and
5) Dedicate the next 12 months of his life to doing whatever he is given a chance to do,
I guarantee you that kid would see a dramatic difference.
But that's not the message we see and hear from the establishment (liberal) news media, Obama WH or VIP's like Rev. Al Sharpton. Instead we hear accusations, anger and divisiveness.
Why haven't we learned the lessons of Watts?
Because learning takes effort and commitment.
Looting takes a scarf and something to use to break something.
40
Many of these comments reflex the framing and amnesia of white America as it relates to riots in this country.
In fact, in the United States, “rioting” and “race wars” against people of color are almost exclusively the domain of white Americans. Although there is a long history of white rioting and destruction to black communities, I’ll only name a few.
In 1863 New York City draft riots, white people ran amok, killing black Americans and destroying the African-American community’s churches, orphanages, businesses, and schools.
In 1917 East Saint Louis, whites engaged in a pogrom against the black community in which more than 200 blacks were killed.
1919 “Red Summer” which consisted of 26 white led riots in which whites attempted to reassert their control and dominance over the black community in the aftermath of World War I.
In 1921, over a 24-hour time period, whites destroyed the prosperous black community in Tulsa, Oklahoma. White rioters used machine guns and dropped bombs (in what may be one of the first recorded uses of a plane for that purpose) on the black community. Conservative estimates suggest that at least several hundred black people were killed.
Then there’s New Orleans, Rosewood, Detroit 1943, Atlanta, Wilmington NC, and on and on.
However, the racist news narrative continues in the present where rioting is presented as being solely a black response.
In fact, in the United States, “rioting” and “race wars” against people of color are almost exclusively the domain of white Americans. Although there is a long history of white rioting and destruction to black communities, I’ll only name a few.
In 1863 New York City draft riots, white people ran amok, killing black Americans and destroying the African-American community’s churches, orphanages, businesses, and schools.
In 1917 East Saint Louis, whites engaged in a pogrom against the black community in which more than 200 blacks were killed.
1919 “Red Summer” which consisted of 26 white led riots in which whites attempted to reassert their control and dominance over the black community in the aftermath of World War I.
In 1921, over a 24-hour time period, whites destroyed the prosperous black community in Tulsa, Oklahoma. White rioters used machine guns and dropped bombs (in what may be one of the first recorded uses of a plane for that purpose) on the black community. Conservative estimates suggest that at least several hundred black people were killed.
Then there’s New Orleans, Rosewood, Detroit 1943, Atlanta, Wilmington NC, and on and on.
However, the racist news narrative continues in the present where rioting is presented as being solely a black response.
12
Think you can come up with something less than 70 years old?
9
"A similar framing exists today. While recent uprisings in Ferguson, Cleveland and Baltimore have prompted extensive reporting on injustice in law enforcement, municipal policy and the courts, few stories have focused on the groups and people in these cities that have been highlighting these problems for years."
The people need the media to help them make a shift from "their" problem to "our" problem. This will not happen by covering protests alone.
The New York Times is the paper of record for white liberals. The lack of coverage of the actual Movement for Black Lives is not only irritating, it is irresponsible journalism, and a landing on the wrong side of history. The movement needs white progressives to be aware of it, and to know of its existence. I spend my time with friends, and on social media attempting to educate myself and then my peers. Even on the anniversary of Ferguson, the paper produced a clever video about black twitter, rather than coverage of the weekend of events including the new leaders of this movement. As I've become more aware of the movement itself, I have also unfortunately become more aware of the level of white privilege evident in the Times. Why not a profile of Bree Newsome or the 3 Queer organizers of the national BlackLivesMatter movement in the magazine this week? No, two articles about black artists. And in the paper, a large article about housing disparity. Disappointing to say the least.
The people need the media to help them make a shift from "their" problem to "our" problem. This will not happen by covering protests alone.
The New York Times is the paper of record for white liberals. The lack of coverage of the actual Movement for Black Lives is not only irritating, it is irresponsible journalism, and a landing on the wrong side of history. The movement needs white progressives to be aware of it, and to know of its existence. I spend my time with friends, and on social media attempting to educate myself and then my peers. Even on the anniversary of Ferguson, the paper produced a clever video about black twitter, rather than coverage of the weekend of events including the new leaders of this movement. As I've become more aware of the movement itself, I have also unfortunately become more aware of the level of white privilege evident in the Times. Why not a profile of Bree Newsome or the 3 Queer organizers of the national BlackLivesMatter movement in the magazine this week? No, two articles about black artists. And in the paper, a large article about housing disparity. Disappointing to say the least.
4
I agree that it has been difficult to understand exactly what the "black lives matter" movement has been all about, and why its supporters react so negatively to people saying "all lives matter" ( that may be more of a Washington post "comments" debate). Partially in response to the opinion piece in the NYT about two weeks ago, which argued that historic racism is far more of an problem that racial bias today... I would say that if historic injustices have resulted in disproportionate levels of poverty and social exclusion, then the solution would be addressing poverty and social exclusion for all need assistance or protection-- rather than trying to focuses today's solutions only on certain groups of poor people. These type of solutions should be well targeted, as they would help all who need assistance or protection-- which would likely be disproportionately those who have been victims of past injustices.
1
Hi Peter -- I appreciate your point; this is what I have learned as a white person following the movement:
Black people are dying at the hands of our government.
That is what I have finally heard and am listening to. When white progressives have the courage to digest that fact and face it, things will change. Have you watched all the videos?
If you are on twitter, I really recommend following #blacklivesmatter to see the conversation.
I also recommend this interview by Amy Goodman with the 3 main organizers of the now national Movement for Black Lives: http://www.democracynow.org/2015/7/24/i_dont_believe_sandy_committed_sui...
It's interesting to me that your comment actually supports my point: the times is failing to educate its readership. Thanks for engaging.
Black people are dying at the hands of our government.
That is what I have finally heard and am listening to. When white progressives have the courage to digest that fact and face it, things will change. Have you watched all the videos?
If you are on twitter, I really recommend following #blacklivesmatter to see the conversation.
I also recommend this interview by Amy Goodman with the 3 main organizers of the now national Movement for Black Lives: http://www.democracynow.org/2015/7/24/i_dont_believe_sandy_committed_sui...
It's interesting to me that your comment actually supports my point: the times is failing to educate its readership. Thanks for engaging.
2
Being an olive skinned person of southern European descent, I have been mistaken for Latino on a few occasions here in Colorado. I went out for lunch several years ago with 3 other Latinos, whose work I was inspecting. It was out on the eastern plains in an area known for its dislike of brown people, and we were ignored by the waitstaff until it became obvious after a few minutes they did not want us there and were not going to serve us.
I have been stopped on 3 different instances by police in downtown, and checked for weapons once, despite being dressed in business attire. I was told that I fit the description of a "suspicious" person even though there was little resemblance to who they were looking for outside of having dark skin. Then they figured out that my last name was not Hispanic, and the attitude quickly changed, suspicion was dropped and I was allowed to go on my way.
Until someone has suffered indignities like this, I don't think anyone can understand the humiliation and degradation. I certainly can't imagine living my whole life being treated like that. To those who say that there is no institutionalized racism and bigotry in this country, I say horse puckey.
I have been stopped on 3 different instances by police in downtown, and checked for weapons once, despite being dressed in business attire. I was told that I fit the description of a "suspicious" person even though there was little resemblance to who they were looking for outside of having dark skin. Then they figured out that my last name was not Hispanic, and the attitude quickly changed, suspicion was dropped and I was allowed to go on my way.
Until someone has suffered indignities like this, I don't think anyone can understand the humiliation and degradation. I certainly can't imagine living my whole life being treated like that. To those who say that there is no institutionalized racism and bigotry in this country, I say horse puckey.
11
The New York Times counts Latinos as white when they are police officers who shoot or arrest African Americans and as non-whites in articles about illegal immigration, civil rights and demographic change. For example, the Texas Highway Patrol officer who arrested Sandra Bland is Latino, but the Times refers to him as a "white" police officer. But in a July 8, 2015, article tilted In Long-Predicted Shift, California Latinos Outnumber Whites," the Times informed us that Latinos began to outnumber whites in California during the first half of 2014. By the Times' logic, Italian American actor Al Pacino is white while Latina actress Cameron Diaz is non-white. However, if Diaz shot a black person, she would become as white as George Zimmerman, who has black ancestry as well as Latino ancestry. So, much depends on which end of a gun you wind up on. But as rule or thumb, an ancestor who spoke Spanish makes you non-white while having ancestors who spoke Italian, Portuguese or Greek has no impact on skin pigmentation.
6
Rather than beating the same dead horses over and over again, it seems to me Ms. Theoharis would be better to cut to the quick and start raising a cry for "jobs". Without jobs there is little hope for the black communities and the 1% are apparently too busy making money to observe that there are millions of blacks and whites living slum lives because the economic system doesn't take the time to bring the infrastructure up-to-date and give jobs to people who need them. Instead of wasting time on yelling about whose lives matter, let's start yelling for jobs and opportunity for a decent life.
6
Absolutely right I think, Bill M. Jobs are what's most vital because without them people have no hope for the future, so it's easier to throw their lives away with drugs, crime, and so forth. With money comes political power too, so they'll be better represented and politicians will be more inclined to fix inner cities and so on. I think what would speed this along fastest is a new W.P.A., enlisting people to do work that doesn't require college degrees, rebuilding infrastructure which our dilapidated country sorely needs.
7
Never happen Dan. The Democrats will never yield on prevailing wages and that makes your idea impossible.
2
From the mainstream media (that is: the New York Times Sunday Magazine) almost a year after the Watts Riots: "A Jounrney Into the Mind of Watts" by Thomas Pynchon * http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1966/06/12/83537525.html?pa...
1
Housing and educational segregation is a huge problem that plays out in every country in the world where you have a poor minority whose culture is different, often not in good ways, from the culture of the majority (think of the suburbia of Paris). However, segregation sometimes plays to the advantage of the minority when it has a strong sense of self-identity and considers itself to be superior to the majority. The Venetian ghetto where Jews were forcibly segregated became a birthplace of modern finance. Chinese communities throughout Asia prospered because of their adherence to their Confucian ideals. Assimilation is not a path to success but ethnic pride is. The tragedy of African-Americans is that they have been robbed of their history by slavery. What they do know is hardly inspiring. Perhaps they should imitate the Chinese, as so many here have suggested, and adopt a materialistic, secular, this-world-oriented philosophy with a strong emphasis on social conformity and respect for both learning and money-making (and by the way, a lot of Chinese are contemptuous of whites). I do not know if it's possible for a community to change its culture so drastically. But I do know that telling blacks to be "just like everybody else" won't work.
4
"The tragedy of African-Americans is that they have been robbed of their history by slavery. What they do know is hardly inspiring."
Mor, please don't speak of things which you know nothing of. I take issue with your presumptions of what "they" know about their history and it being hardly inspiring. I'm a American Black woman, whose knows of Phyllis Wheatley, Frederick Douglas, George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington, WEB DuBois, Ida B. Wells, Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall, the Tuskegee Airmen and countless others, who were brave, intelligent, compassionate, some 100% dedicated to serving human kind, and VERY INSPIRING.
Mor, please don't speak of things which you know nothing of. I take issue with your presumptions of what "they" know about their history and it being hardly inspiring. I'm a American Black woman, whose knows of Phyllis Wheatley, Frederick Douglas, George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington, WEB DuBois, Ida B. Wells, Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall, the Tuskegee Airmen and countless others, who were brave, intelligent, compassionate, some 100% dedicated to serving human kind, and VERY INSPIRING.
4
I am white and I know about those people too. How about Crispus Attuks and 12,000 others who fought in the American Revolutionary War? To say nothing of the 180,000 black people who fought in the Civil War. There are too many AA people who have contributed to the larger culture to even attempt a list, and so often over VERY difficult odds. And lest we think of music and sports as "fluff," people like Scott Joplin changed ALL music not just traditional black music, and Jackie Robinson to name just one athlete, inspired white people too, with both his dignity and skill.
3
Ah, more white prescriptions for black assimilation.
1
No society in the history of civilization has worked harder to eradicate racial discrimination than has the USA over the past 50 years. No government has poured more money into poor communities in an attempt to lend a hand. No group of private citizens has been more charitable to the poor than the American people. It has not worked. To Ms. Theoharis and others of a similar mindset, you need to wash off your mental blackboards and start over. More shaming of white American, more government supervision, and more money are not suddenly going to become solutions, Why in the world would you cling to such expectations? Our Black communities need to experience a sea change in self-motivation, which will never happen as long as this segment of America continues to rely on advice from people like Ms. Theoharis.
16
What makes you believe your first three sentences???
2
Dear Andre,
He's actually right, pretty much every country in the world today either has more racism entrenched than the U.S., or only has one race as such a supermajority that racism isn't visible. If you can name a country that has done more against its problems of racism than America has since 1965, I'd be astounded. Realistically, the vast majority of countries are incredibly more racist than America, treating all those who aren't in the majority as subhuman in every way.
He's actually right, pretty much every country in the world today either has more racism entrenched than the U.S., or only has one race as such a supermajority that racism isn't visible. If you can name a country that has done more against its problems of racism than America has since 1965, I'd be astounded. Realistically, the vast majority of countries are incredibly more racist than America, treating all those who aren't in the majority as subhuman in every way.
3
Because he is correct. Why do you think he is wrong Andre?
2
Our social agreements are being trashed. When were riots, looting and killing EVER justified? The PC sickness is endemic in our society. Today, even the most liberal and progressive of people can be denied their right to speak. Insanity rules.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/black-lives-matter-pro...
Now we have Black Lives Matter as a mantra. As if other lives don't. If BLM, they should stop killing themselves. Last year, PolitiFact found that 93 percent of murder victims were killed by someone who shares their race. Get that?? Ninety-Three-Percent of Blacks murdered were killed by other Blacks.
According to the CDC, homicide was the No. 1 killer (cause of death) of Black men between the ages of 15 and 34 in 2011. Who is committing the murder? Not the police. Other Black men.
If Black lives matter, and they do, along with all other lives of every race, then the Blacks better figure out how to stop killing each other. And to stop blaming our society for their cultural failures, especially when 73% of Black babies are born to single Black mothers, no father present to raise the children.
I recently saw a You Tube video of a gang of Black school-age youths savagely beating another Black student. Why? Because he scored in the top 10% of his class in a test. That is insane, just insane.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/black-lives-matter-pro...
Now we have Black Lives Matter as a mantra. As if other lives don't. If BLM, they should stop killing themselves. Last year, PolitiFact found that 93 percent of murder victims were killed by someone who shares their race. Get that?? Ninety-Three-Percent of Blacks murdered were killed by other Blacks.
According to the CDC, homicide was the No. 1 killer (cause of death) of Black men between the ages of 15 and 34 in 2011. Who is committing the murder? Not the police. Other Black men.
If Black lives matter, and they do, along with all other lives of every race, then the Blacks better figure out how to stop killing each other. And to stop blaming our society for their cultural failures, especially when 73% of Black babies are born to single Black mothers, no father present to raise the children.
I recently saw a You Tube video of a gang of Black school-age youths savagely beating another Black student. Why? Because he scored in the top 10% of his class in a test. That is insane, just insane.
13
"When were riots, looting and killing EVER justified?" You mean like all those revolutions against structurally imposed injustices throughout history? Or maybe it's a trick question. Please provide us with the correct answer. You know, just for our enlightenment.
Or maybe you're missing the fact that social agreements do indeed get trashed when people decide such agreements are part of maintaining the status quo of oppression.
Or maybe you're missing the fact that social agreements do indeed get trashed when people decide such agreements are part of maintaining the status quo of oppression.
There is a world of difference between a riot and a revolution.
5
When were riots...justified?" Well how about the American revolution and the French revolution, to name two.
In a racially just society, ALL members would live by the laws of that society. That means, pay your fines, show up for court, don't shoot a police or others in your neighborhood, stay in school, work to earn a living, stay away from hard drugs, stick with your child's mother, have fewer children and love them, don't be a bunch of nasty rotters that are living the myth that 'we were kings, but made into slaves'. Africa was always a slave driven society and those sold into slavery in Europe and the English colonies were sold by Africans who had enslaved them and sold them as commodities. Can't we get real once in a while?
10
Americans, despite the great melting pot that we are, mostly prefer to associate with those who are similar in social, economic, educational and ethnic background. This is normal — but it has a down side. It creates barriers and false understanding about those who are outside our life experience.
Isolating ourselves from "others" is mostly a passive thing. I'm wondering if these is some way to draw people of different backgrounds together that isn't awkward or artificial. Something where a mixture of ages, incomes and lifestyles can meet with ease and pleasure — something that is an antidote to the fast, cold, impersonal world of the internet. We've got to figure out something.
Isolating ourselves from "others" is mostly a passive thing. I'm wondering if these is some way to draw people of different backgrounds together that isn't awkward or artificial. Something where a mixture of ages, incomes and lifestyles can meet with ease and pleasure — something that is an antidote to the fast, cold, impersonal world of the internet. We've got to figure out something.
2
Why we haven't learned from Watts?
Because the argument doesn't make sense. For hundreds of years Jews suffered from institutional racism in Europe and the US, they lived in immense poverty, but crime was very low and riots were never heard off. Today Jews are one of the strongest communities in the US (and were in Europe, up until 1939). So the argument that poverty and racism cause crime and unemployment doesn't hold water. Look elsewhere.
Because the argument doesn't make sense. For hundreds of years Jews suffered from institutional racism in Europe and the US, they lived in immense poverty, but crime was very low and riots were never heard off. Today Jews are one of the strongest communities in the US (and were in Europe, up until 1939). So the argument that poverty and racism cause crime and unemployment doesn't hold water. Look elsewhere.
14
Ummm - the reason the Jews in Europe were often hated was because they had possessions... Land and businesses. It's not the same thing at all.
2
The looters and shooters in Ferguson obviously learned nothing in even a year... SMH
7
Failure to learn is a profound failing indeed.
There are multiple ways to fail to learn. One's desire for knowledge can be suppressed by outside forces. Or one might make choices that divert from opportunities to acquire knowledge. Or perhaps one just doesn't have that spark of curiosity that inspires the search for knowledge.
Prof. Theoharis identifies non-learning as a significant cause of racial inequality and violence in America today. The causes of non-learning need to be described so that they can be countered.
Some of the causes might include unplanned parenthood, social myopia, intellectual defeatism, and the distractions of religion, mass entertainment and billion dollar sports. It is the rare public school program that can counterbalance those forces. Societal, familial, individual and educational encouragements to learn need to permeate our population for us to sustain civilization and to progress as knowledgeable human beings.
There are multiple ways to fail to learn. One's desire for knowledge can be suppressed by outside forces. Or one might make choices that divert from opportunities to acquire knowledge. Or perhaps one just doesn't have that spark of curiosity that inspires the search for knowledge.
Prof. Theoharis identifies non-learning as a significant cause of racial inequality and violence in America today. The causes of non-learning need to be described so that they can be countered.
Some of the causes might include unplanned parenthood, social myopia, intellectual defeatism, and the distractions of religion, mass entertainment and billion dollar sports. It is the rare public school program that can counterbalance those forces. Societal, familial, individual and educational encouragements to learn need to permeate our population for us to sustain civilization and to progress as knowledgeable human beings.
6
Professor Theoharis begins with a biased and factually incorrect description of the beginning of the Watts Riots and builds blithely from there.
In fact, a CHP motorcycle officer stopped a car driven by Marquette Frye and also containing his brother Ronald Frye. After Marquette Frye failed a field sobriety test, the CHP officer arrested Marquette and radioed for a unit to transport his prisoner. Ronald left the scene to get his mother to drive the Frye vehicle home. Ronald returned with his mother, and a crowd of about 100 people gathered.
Marquette seized this opportunity to assault the CHP officers and urge the crowd to violence. Mrs. Frye jumped on the back of one CHP officer, and Ronald began fighting with a third. Eventually, all three Fryes were handcuffed, arrested, and removed. A fourth woman was arrested after she spat on an officer.
Thereafter, on Wednesday, roving bands of criminals roamed over the one square mile of Watts. About 30 persons were arrested; about 20 officers were injured. From Thursday through Saturday, however, looting, robberies, arson, and other crime began and ultimately spread over about 50 square miles.
Professor Theoharis equates these activities to protests. Not so, they were real crimes with real victims.
In fact, a CHP motorcycle officer stopped a car driven by Marquette Frye and also containing his brother Ronald Frye. After Marquette Frye failed a field sobriety test, the CHP officer arrested Marquette and radioed for a unit to transport his prisoner. Ronald left the scene to get his mother to drive the Frye vehicle home. Ronald returned with his mother, and a crowd of about 100 people gathered.
Marquette seized this opportunity to assault the CHP officers and urge the crowd to violence. Mrs. Frye jumped on the back of one CHP officer, and Ronald began fighting with a third. Eventually, all three Fryes were handcuffed, arrested, and removed. A fourth woman was arrested after she spat on an officer.
Thereafter, on Wednesday, roving bands of criminals roamed over the one square mile of Watts. About 30 persons were arrested; about 20 officers were injured. From Thursday through Saturday, however, looting, robberies, arson, and other crime began and ultimately spread over about 50 square miles.
Professor Theoharis equates these activities to protests. Not so, they were real crimes with real victims.
13
WATTS ONE AT A TIME The documented slaughter of African Americans by police officers during the past few years proves with horrifying accuracy that the Watts riots never ended. Black lives are being sacrificed one at a time by rogue police officers who are shown to be incapable of controlling their own violent impulses, leave alone being positive role models for behavior as good citizens. I believe that since 9/11, local police forces have been trained to be on the alert at all times for terroristic threats, while the training in anger management and conflict resolution has been neglected, or worse, ignored. None of the cases I've read about have involved persons accused of making terroristic threats. What we must do immediately is to begin changing the focus of police activities from responding with violence to becoming protectors of the peace. More extensive psychological screening and intensive training is required to solve the problem as well. As a nation we do not need to live with Watts One At A Time in perpetuity!
3
DH
get your facts straight. there is no slaughter of African Americans by police. Almost all police shootings are justified, the handful that aren't are the result of incorrect judgments made in tense situations by cops. A small handful of shootings might be categorized as murders -- but cops are at much greater risk of being murdered by African Americans than vice versa. You are simply spouting rubbish.
get your facts straight. there is no slaughter of African Americans by police. Almost all police shootings are justified, the handful that aren't are the result of incorrect judgments made in tense situations by cops. A small handful of shootings might be categorized as murders -- but cops are at much greater risk of being murdered by African Americans than vice versa. You are simply spouting rubbish.
7
Ralphie, it's pretty difficult to know exactly what you're arguing, but here's a look at all this from the conservative Washington Times's report on a study done by Peter Moskos, assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York. He is quoted below, and then there's a link to the article.
“The odds that any given black man will shoot and kill a police officer in any given year is slim to none, about one in a million. The odds for any given white man? One in four million,” he said. “The odds that a black man will be shot and killed by a police officer is about 1 in 60,000. For a white man those odds are 1 in 200,000.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-...
“The odds that any given black man will shoot and kill a police officer in any given year is slim to none, about one in a million. The odds for any given white man? One in four million,” he said. “The odds that a black man will be shot and killed by a police officer is about 1 in 60,000. For a white man those odds are 1 in 200,000.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-...
3
Been around the block as they say. Am originally from Chicago. Black Ghettos never change. I witnessed LBJ's great society coming to Chicago en force. Look what we have to show for it. A classic drug infested crime ridden massive ghetto.
9
Actually, my memory of the time was that a lot of attention was devoted to northern racism. It was more virulent and systematic in the south, but in the north, too, we had segregated housing, all-white unions, schools that were segregated in fact though not in law. And a lot of attention was paid to those issues, both in law (the Housing Rights Act, etc.) and in popular culture (e.g., "All in the Family," a show devoted to making fun of white northern racism).
3
What else to show? Congress and the SCOTUS dominated by medieval conservatives and a white population in denial of its racism.
1
Des, how about a black president and even a popular black Republican candidate for the presidency? Not to mention a black Supreme Court justice and, since progress isn't just about public figures, a substantial black middle class where there was almost none before school integration, the Civil Rights Act, and Affirmative Action.
Things are far from ideal, but they are even farther from the days of Jim Crow and legal discrimination.
Things are far from ideal, but they are even farther from the days of Jim Crow and legal discrimination.
2
I'm continually bothered by the widespread denial of how racism has been baked into our governmental and regulatory systems (systemic racism).
It is possible for whites so inclined to keep their interactions with blacks to a minimum. So doing, it becomes easy for them to not to hear or see firsthand the devastating effects of this systemic racism.
It would be naive to think that nowadays any system is going to trumpet its injustices towards any segment of the population. On the contrary, we can only expect that a system by default will insist that it is working just fine and its treatment of all concerned is just fine.
Therefore, it is necessary, if one wants to approach the truth of the situation, to proactively seek it out. For those who have been comfortable with thinking that there is something inherently deficient in blacks that is the cause of all their problems, I would not expect them to come easily or delightedly to the truth.
But I would applaud them for doing so. And to make the process of enlightenment as palatable as possible, I have a recommendation. A process as deep and pervasive as structural racism over the past 150 years, and how it is manifesting today, is worthy of several books, and they have been written.
But for a thoughtful, comprehensive, and unabrasive article overview of the long-term and continuing damage, I recommend "The Case for Reparations" by Ta-Nehisi Coates: http://tinyurl.com/lfd5thu
It is possible for whites so inclined to keep their interactions with blacks to a minimum. So doing, it becomes easy for them to not to hear or see firsthand the devastating effects of this systemic racism.
It would be naive to think that nowadays any system is going to trumpet its injustices towards any segment of the population. On the contrary, we can only expect that a system by default will insist that it is working just fine and its treatment of all concerned is just fine.
Therefore, it is necessary, if one wants to approach the truth of the situation, to proactively seek it out. For those who have been comfortable with thinking that there is something inherently deficient in blacks that is the cause of all their problems, I would not expect them to come easily or delightedly to the truth.
But I would applaud them for doing so. And to make the process of enlightenment as palatable as possible, I have a recommendation. A process as deep and pervasive as structural racism over the past 150 years, and how it is manifesting today, is worthy of several books, and they have been written.
But for a thoughtful, comprehensive, and unabrasive article overview of the long-term and continuing damage, I recommend "The Case for Reparations" by Ta-Nehisi Coates: http://tinyurl.com/lfd5thu
1
Dear Brian Stewart,
I think you overstate the case. I have black family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers, neighbors, and neighborhood police. They all seem to be mostly unaffected by racism, and if they were I'd fight against anyone treating them unfairly.
The massive racism we see is basically only against black people, and other minorities, in poverty. Poverty breeds crime too, always has, and this causes people to view such neighborhoods with distrust and disdain, with some good reason.
In my day to day life I see black people at all levels of employment, housing, and education. The structural racism you describe was prevalent in the 50's and 60's but it isn't the same any more, in the middle class one's skin color really doesn't matter as much these days.
I think you overstate the case. I have black family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers, neighbors, and neighborhood police. They all seem to be mostly unaffected by racism, and if they were I'd fight against anyone treating them unfairly.
The massive racism we see is basically only against black people, and other minorities, in poverty. Poverty breeds crime too, always has, and this causes people to view such neighborhoods with distrust and disdain, with some good reason.
In my day to day life I see black people at all levels of employment, housing, and education. The structural racism you describe was prevalent in the 50's and 60's but it isn't the same any more, in the middle class one's skin color really doesn't matter as much these days.
5
Thank you for your comments, Dan.
You are describing a near-ideal situation, but I think you should be cautious in generalizing from it.
You are dealing with those fortunate few who have been able to avoid or escape the pit. Successful blacks are generally VERY sharp at reading what white associates do and do not want to hear, and have learned how not to stir waters unnecessarily. Although I can't be sure it carries over into conversations with your friends, the way you have responded here has given me very clear signals what ideas you do and do not want to entertain.
I did not describe structural racism; I directed attention to someone else who describes it very well. You apparently acknowledge its prevalence in mid-last-century, but think it's faded now. I think you have let the wool be pulled over your eyes.
I know you would not have replied to me as you did if you had read Coates. I wish you would.
I also suggest you read "Dog Whistle Politics" by Ian Haney Lopez. The gist is here: http://tinyurl.com/md522q6 You may think racism has pretty much gone away because you don't hear overtly racist language in the common media from certain politicians any more. you are sorely mislead, I'm afraid, and an example of the success of the encoding of racist terminology and concepts.
I don't enjoy challenging the bubble you seem to have found for yourself, but our country is seething with racial anger, and I see no benefit to denial and Pollyannaism.
You are describing a near-ideal situation, but I think you should be cautious in generalizing from it.
You are dealing with those fortunate few who have been able to avoid or escape the pit. Successful blacks are generally VERY sharp at reading what white associates do and do not want to hear, and have learned how not to stir waters unnecessarily. Although I can't be sure it carries over into conversations with your friends, the way you have responded here has given me very clear signals what ideas you do and do not want to entertain.
I did not describe structural racism; I directed attention to someone else who describes it very well. You apparently acknowledge its prevalence in mid-last-century, but think it's faded now. I think you have let the wool be pulled over your eyes.
I know you would not have replied to me as you did if you had read Coates. I wish you would.
I also suggest you read "Dog Whistle Politics" by Ian Haney Lopez. The gist is here: http://tinyurl.com/md522q6 You may think racism has pretty much gone away because you don't hear overtly racist language in the common media from certain politicians any more. you are sorely mislead, I'm afraid, and an example of the success of the encoding of racist terminology and concepts.
I don't enjoy challenging the bubble you seem to have found for yourself, but our country is seething with racial anger, and I see no benefit to denial and Pollyannaism.
1
Does rioting and looting by black dissidents make white neighborhoods more or less likely to want them as neighbors?
9
Sorry, but it was pretty hard to 'learn' from Watts 23 years ago. Initial reports garnered sympathy, but that quickly turned to condemnation. I don't care what is happening to you or what kind of injustice you face, there is NEVER an excuse to rob, loot, or murder. NEVER. And pretending that those that did so in Watts so many years ago was somehow justified is an outrage. To all people of all colors.
16
Mary, one assumes you are Euro-American. Do you believe your ancestors never robbed, looted or murdered in the face of the injustices they experienced? Did they believe there was "never an excuse" to do so?
Of course they believed no such thing. There is always a justification for militancy in the face of injustice. If there were not, we white folks wouldn't celebrate our proud history of revolution, now would we.
People will write most anything in a public forum, especially when faced with uncomfortable truths. Is there no longer any intention to try to make sense? If that's the case, please let me know: it will be fascinating to try it out, though of course the consequences will (continue to) be horrifying.
Of course they believed no such thing. There is always a justification for militancy in the face of injustice. If there were not, we white folks wouldn't celebrate our proud history of revolution, now would we.
People will write most anything in a public forum, especially when faced with uncomfortable truths. Is there no longer any intention to try to make sense? If that's the case, please let me know: it will be fascinating to try it out, though of course the consequences will (continue to) be horrifying.
1
The media, led by the NYTimes, are really pouring gasoline on the fire over the last couple of years. I've never seen such racially-charged coverage, constantly, for many decades.
Why, exactly? What good is this going to lead to? For example, Charles Blow went of the rails months ago.
Why, exactly? What good is this going to lead to? For example, Charles Blow went of the rails months ago.
17
Let me guess. You're a white man over the age of 30.
People like you don't get what is happening and has been happening in this country.
People like you don't get what is happening and has been happening in this country.
4
I'm a Black man over the age of 30 (okay, just barely) and I agree. The Times one-sided, incendiary coverage and analysis of this is definitely not helping the Black community as much as it helps to maintain stereotypes that create a societal caste and perpetuate the problems here.
11
Barton
what are you talking about -- what does being a white man over the age of 30 have to do with not getting what is happening -- and what exactly is it that is happening?
what are you talking about -- what does being a white man over the age of 30 have to do with not getting what is happening -- and what exactly is it that is happening?
2
YES- We still haven’t learned. I listened to 2 guests on a Los Angeles radio show the other day who witnessed the Watts Riots. They retold their stories with the same emotion, passion, vitriol, anger and indignation as if it happened yesterday. Here we are 50 years later and these guys we’re still ticked off at the police and National Guard! Think about the droves of angry youth in Philadelphia, Ferguson and the rest of the country- is their sentiment going to be any different from those who lived through Watts? I guess we have another 50+ years of anger, mistrust and intolerance to look forward to..
6
If you really want to learn the lessons of the Watts riots, take a ride on the Blue Line from Downtown LA to Long Beach. As you approach the 103rd St stop, note the vast tracts of vacant land where buildings once stood prior to the riots. That the original station is still there is only due to it being spared the torch. Everything around it is gone, with nothing to replace it 50 years on. The only thing I can compare it to is how Berlin looks today, still bearing the scars of WW2 and also having vasts tracts of vacant land where buildings once stood. The lack of reinvestment into the community is palpable. Moreover, the retail disinvestment that happened after the riots is still being felt in corridors throughout South Los Angeles. Today, Watts, Compton, Carson, and other formerly diverse communities pre-riots are among the most segregated communities in the West Coast. By some accounts the segregation is voluntary, but it helps nobody and heals nothing. If I could offer a bit of advice to would-be rioters, it would be to go to the rich communities and riot there. At least then people would have to pay attention.
6
As an aside, since everyone seems caught up in semantics over the use of the word "thug", I suggest we start calling the violent looters and people attacking cops something else. Surely we all know that not all black people are thugs, just like not all white people are oppressors, but there seems to be a generalizing effect going on wherein the actions of the worst people at a protest are being attributed to all the people in the neighborhood.
So how about when someone like Michael Brown attacks a cop, we call him a criminal, which is technically true. When someone like Tamir Rice gets gunned down within seconds by a cop speeding to the scene, we call him a victim. When people protest in Ferguson due to racist treatment, we could call them protesters, and when people steal and riot, we could call them looters and rioters, so a headline from yesterday could read "Protests in Ferguson were disrupted by the criminal actions of some looters and rioters, but most protesters were unharmed".
I just think it'd be a good thing to differentiate further, because being black, white, Asian, Hispanic, or whatever, does not make people anything else; only their actions make them a positive or negative influence on society.
So how about when someone like Michael Brown attacks a cop, we call him a criminal, which is technically true. When someone like Tamir Rice gets gunned down within seconds by a cop speeding to the scene, we call him a victim. When people protest in Ferguson due to racist treatment, we could call them protesters, and when people steal and riot, we could call them looters and rioters, so a headline from yesterday could read "Protests in Ferguson were disrupted by the criminal actions of some looters and rioters, but most protesters were unharmed".
I just think it'd be a good thing to differentiate further, because being black, white, Asian, Hispanic, or whatever, does not make people anything else; only their actions make them a positive or negative influence on society.
49
Who pray tell -- is "WE"????
5
Great article, as Watts was before my lifetime it's good to learn more about it and have it related to what's going on now. However, I don't think the situation is quite as one-sided as it's presented, ie: black people are victims and white people are all evil oppressors.
There's no doubt that in majority black neighborhoods the schools are worse, jobs are scarcer, police are more violent and likely to fire their guns, crime is higher, housing is substandard, and so on. Racism is mostly to blame for how neighborhoods like Ferguson got that way.
However, while black people are not thugs (certainly none belong to the Thuggee sect), some black people actually are thugs. The higher crime rates in these neighborhoods are not due to white or Asian tourists committing crimes, they're due to the residents. When people loot, destroy property, and shoot at people in protest, that's no longer a protest but a rioting mob, and it can't be tolerated. Mobs are dangerous to all and must be pacified by the least deadly means available.
That's what people in places like Watts and Ferguson have to learn: they have a just cause that needs fixing, but when they turn to violence, looting, shooting, and burning things, to outsiders it invalidates their cause. People react with, 'well clearly they're thugs and must be contained'.
This isn't a "black thing" either, I have black family and friends unaffected by this. This is a poverty thing, along with racism, and it'll be tough to fix.
There's no doubt that in majority black neighborhoods the schools are worse, jobs are scarcer, police are more violent and likely to fire their guns, crime is higher, housing is substandard, and so on. Racism is mostly to blame for how neighborhoods like Ferguson got that way.
However, while black people are not thugs (certainly none belong to the Thuggee sect), some black people actually are thugs. The higher crime rates in these neighborhoods are not due to white or Asian tourists committing crimes, they're due to the residents. When people loot, destroy property, and shoot at people in protest, that's no longer a protest but a rioting mob, and it can't be tolerated. Mobs are dangerous to all and must be pacified by the least deadly means available.
That's what people in places like Watts and Ferguson have to learn: they have a just cause that needs fixing, but when they turn to violence, looting, shooting, and burning things, to outsiders it invalidates their cause. People react with, 'well clearly they're thugs and must be contained'.
This isn't a "black thing" either, I have black family and friends unaffected by this. This is a poverty thing, along with racism, and it'll be tough to fix.
10
"Racism is mostly to blame for how neighborhoods like Ferguson got that way." You simply cannot start from a premise which you cannot support and build an argument on that. Not and attract the respect of thoughtful people.
Too many people on one side of the argument start from a position that it is beyond dispute that black inner-city neighborhoods got the way they are through the invisible had of white racism. It is far from beyond dispute. Prove it.
Too many people fling around "institutional racism" as the explanation for the condition of black inner cities without once citing an example demonstrating a causal connection. Make some of those connections.
Too many people on one side of the argument start from a position that it is beyond dispute that black inner-city neighborhoods got the way they are through the invisible had of white racism. It is far from beyond dispute. Prove it.
Too many people fling around "institutional racism" as the explanation for the condition of black inner cities without once citing an example demonstrating a causal connection. Make some of those connections.
2
Fear of the other is older than mankind, and passed from primitive wilds to the harsh conditions of pioneering America. American prejudice is handed down from family to family. Pastors supported prejudice citing Old Testament verses to justify slavery.
The racist thinking of America dates at least from 18th C Europe. Hume and Kant demonstrate that philosophy is greatly dependent on actual data. Kant wrote that the people “of Africa have no feeling that rises above the ridiculous.” (He applied this judgement to Amerindians too.) Kant even used the common argument that “the lowest rabble” of whites could rise and “through extraordinary gifts earn respect in the world.” Hume wrote “there never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white…”
It should not be surprising that Americans who cling to this nonsense are those more likely to deny evolution and climate science.
Montesquieu, however, wrote: “slavery debases, weakens and destroys the spirit, while liberty shapes, elevates, and fortifies it.” Had he been able to follow the lives of African Americans, he’d have been forced to conclude that this is too broad a generalization, and that great nobility of spirit did flourish in great adversity.
The racist thinking of America dates at least from 18th C Europe. Hume and Kant demonstrate that philosophy is greatly dependent on actual data. Kant wrote that the people “of Africa have no feeling that rises above the ridiculous.” (He applied this judgement to Amerindians too.) Kant even used the common argument that “the lowest rabble” of whites could rise and “through extraordinary gifts earn respect in the world.” Hume wrote “there never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white…”
It should not be surprising that Americans who cling to this nonsense are those more likely to deny evolution and climate science.
Montesquieu, however, wrote: “slavery debases, weakens and destroys the spirit, while liberty shapes, elevates, and fortifies it.” Had he been able to follow the lives of African Americans, he’d have been forced to conclude that this is too broad a generalization, and that great nobility of spirit did flourish in great adversity.
2
Read the NY Times report of 50 years ago. The study was done by John Kraft. I worked for Kraft and read every open ended question on over 1,000 questionaires from Watts.
The key quote was how a young white cop told an old black man to kneel down to tie the cop's shoe laces.
I did the same for every study Kraft did for the NY Times. The results were always the same.
If I did it again I expect I would find the same patterns.
LS
The key quote was how a young white cop told an old black man to kneel down to tie the cop's shoe laces.
I did the same for every study Kraft did for the NY Times. The results were always the same.
If I did it again I expect I would find the same patterns.
LS
1
What can one say? Looting , burning, etc. are unlawful. Blacks continue to create more damage to any cause they may have by these actions. It seems that the radical element has taken over.
13
This is what happens when a nation mixes poverty with racism.
You know what hurts?
That all of this blather about confederate flags, Jefferson/Jackson, etcetera doesn't address the black lives matter issue.....how is any of _that_ addressing the economic disparity of this group? And Black people aren't addressing that either.
Black people won't be well and healthy until it's easier for them to have a good life too. One that they control and make a difference in.
Having jobs would do that. Having jobs that they can do no matter what level of society that they come from would help too. Blacks came from the south to fill factory jobs.......you know like in Detroit/MoTown....as did a lot of people.
There isn't a "Black problem." That there is an economic segregation that is endemic to the United States historically associated with this population group..... Nothing has been done to integrate them into the business/social situation that they live next door to. They are culturally and economically isolated by differences in opportunity and the culture that they have created during their isolation.
That all of this blather about confederate flags, Jefferson/Jackson, etcetera doesn't address the black lives matter issue.....how is any of _that_ addressing the economic disparity of this group? And Black people aren't addressing that either.
Black people won't be well and healthy until it's easier for them to have a good life too. One that they control and make a difference in.
Having jobs would do that. Having jobs that they can do no matter what level of society that they come from would help too. Blacks came from the south to fill factory jobs.......you know like in Detroit/MoTown....as did a lot of people.
There isn't a "Black problem." That there is an economic segregation that is endemic to the United States historically associated with this population group..... Nothing has been done to integrate them into the business/social situation that they live next door to. They are culturally and economically isolated by differences in opportunity and the culture that they have created during their isolation.
1
Sorry, but it is never easy to have a good life. I don't care what color you are. How is it you assume that blacks should have an 'easy' time of making a good life when no one else does? Back to the victim story. I abhor your thinking, especially when it comes to how hard I and my black friends have sacrificed to raise our families and have a safe place to live.
2
The policies proposed by Bernie Sanders, the presidential candidate for the Democratic nomination (and a senator from Vermont), would be hugely beneficial to black communities, especially the massive jobs program that he proposes for repairing the infrastructure nationwide and his proposal for free tuition at all public universities. (These are just two among many.) He is also strongly opposed to all forms of race discrimination and has a track record in social justice from as far back as the civil rights movement in the 1960s. Some members of Black Lives Matter protested at a couple of his speeches, but I feel they have misread his intentions and the great potential of his proposals. His Senate web page is http://www.sanders.senate.gov. To receive newsletters about his current activities you can sign up at
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/buzz.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/buzz.
2
"Nothing has been done to integrate them into the business/social situation that they live next door to. They are culturally and economically isolated by differences in opportunity and the culture that they have created during their isolation."
You'd better tell that to the black middle class who apparently didn't get the memo telling them they are unable to succeed. Tell the sitting President as well. He also was left off the distribution list.
What utter and complete nonsense bordering on either delusion or dishonesty. If one wants to perpetuate a victimization myth, completely ignoring reality is always a good place to start.
You'd better tell that to the black middle class who apparently didn't get the memo telling them they are unable to succeed. Tell the sitting President as well. He also was left off the distribution list.
What utter and complete nonsense bordering on either delusion or dishonesty. If one wants to perpetuate a victimization myth, completely ignoring reality is always a good place to start.
5
Your right, not much has changed in the African American communities across our nation with the exception of one thing. Opportunity
3
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................
look, not to be too rude.....but I've been around since 1950, and opportunity has decreased greatly for all who aren't currently well off in general.....there are not the same kind of opportunities that existed in the late 60's and 70's or even 90's......
outsourcing destroyed the middle class and further isolated the less well off from being able to step_into middle class from poverty....
have you actually ever worked with black people that come from an area like Ferguson? I have worked with people living in Ferguson.....in an American auto factory....30 years ago....you know what? They came from Arkansas, Ohio, and Mississippi to work at that auto plant.....those jobs were shipped to Mexico.....after the multi trillion dollar bailout.
.
look, not to be too rude.....but I've been around since 1950, and opportunity has decreased greatly for all who aren't currently well off in general.....there are not the same kind of opportunities that existed in the late 60's and 70's or even 90's......
outsourcing destroyed the middle class and further isolated the less well off from being able to step_into middle class from poverty....
have you actually ever worked with black people that come from an area like Ferguson? I have worked with people living in Ferguson.....in an American auto factory....30 years ago....you know what? They came from Arkansas, Ohio, and Mississippi to work at that auto plant.....those jobs were shipped to Mexico.....after the multi trillion dollar bailout.
.
2
Wrong answer. A lot of Americans have learned from Watts. Most Americans did. But, clearly, take any race-based story from the sixties and put a 2015 time stamp on it and no one could tell the difference. Just as clearly, the lessons that SOME Americans SHOULD have learned from Watts they did not.
We haven't learned from Watts because all to often the point is for America to never learn. Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we wouldn't need Al Sharpton or his tax-evading, Obama WH VIP status National "Action" Network. Learning the lesson from Watts would mean no more "Congressional Black Caucus" since we are all Americans, we can just have Congress.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we could learn history every month, instead of just February, as if Black people only made history 28 days a year in America.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we would elect a President based on his or her integrity, experience and love of country as opposed to allowing an arrogant, incompetent, disinterested community organizer leverage the color of my skin to realize personal gain.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we no longer jump into panic and paranoia mode on demand, when the establishment (liberal) news media decides to blanket cover non-events based on fallacies (see Ferguson part II).
Most importantly, learning the lesson from Watts would mean ending racism because as a Black person in the 21st century, racism isn't the outgrowth of a social construct of the 17th century, it's a lack of growth in the minds of too many in the 21st century. Oppression starts from the inside out. Choose to respect yourself, and this great country that gives us so much as Americans and be a neighbor instead of a nuisance.
You'd be surprised how that works.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we could learn history every month, instead of just February, as if Black people only made history 28 days a year in America.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we would elect a President based on his or her integrity, experience and love of country as opposed to allowing an arrogant, incompetent, disinterested community organizer leverage the color of my skin to realize personal gain.
Learning the lesson from Watts would mean we no longer jump into panic and paranoia mode on demand, when the establishment (liberal) news media decides to blanket cover non-events based on fallacies (see Ferguson part II).
Most importantly, learning the lesson from Watts would mean ending racism because as a Black person in the 21st century, racism isn't the outgrowth of a social construct of the 17th century, it's a lack of growth in the minds of too many in the 21st century. Oppression starts from the inside out. Choose to respect yourself, and this great country that gives us so much as Americans and be a neighbor instead of a nuisance.
You'd be surprised how that works.
16
If you are an immigrant or the child of one, people often view you favorably compared to African-Americans. Self-respecting people sat at lunch counters and protested peacefully, only to be attacked by the authorities.
The event that sunk Pat Brown and launched the S.S. Ronald Reagan.
Brown signed the Rumford Fair Housing Act, and Ronald Reagan supported the repeal effort that helped spark the riot.
Not to put too fine a point on it, Reagan used the very uncoded language of the day to get his message across to California's white voter:
Reagansaid that California's urban streets had become "jungle paths after dark."
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-watts-politics-20150806-...
See you in Philadelphia, Mississippi in 16 years Ron!
Brown signed the Rumford Fair Housing Act, and Ronald Reagan supported the repeal effort that helped spark the riot.
Not to put too fine a point on it, Reagan used the very uncoded language of the day to get his message across to California's white voter:
Reagansaid that California's urban streets had become "jungle paths after dark."
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-watts-politics-20150806-...
See you in Philadelphia, Mississippi in 16 years Ron!
3
Sadly, the Fair Housing Act did a huge amount to sink black people. When well-off, motivated black people could leave their neighborhoods, they did. And those left behind had no role-models or anyone else left to help them out. Unintended consequences.
1
Blacks escaping the racial terrorism of the South found that the “Promise Land” of the North was not flowing with “milk and honey.”
Fueled by discriminatory and racist federal policies that relegated them to infested segregated ghettos, along with discriminatory hiring practices in the northern unions, inferior schools, and of course police brutality, many Blacks, in turns of material opportunity, found that the Promise Land was not that much different from the brutal South.
As the article highlights, at the root of the problem is the framing. Professor Joe R. Feagin writes in his book, “The White Racial Frame: Centuries of Racial Framing and Counter-Framing,” “How we interpret and experience our racialized present depends substantially on our knowledge of and interpretations of our racialized past. The collective memory of that racist past not only shapes, but also legitimates, the established racial structure of today’s society….those with the greatest power, principally white Americans in the U.S. case, typically have the greatest control over society-wide institutional memories, including those recorded by the mainstream media and in most history books, organizational histories, laws, textbooks, films, and public monuments.”
Fueled by discriminatory and racist federal policies that relegated them to infested segregated ghettos, along with discriminatory hiring practices in the northern unions, inferior schools, and of course police brutality, many Blacks, in turns of material opportunity, found that the Promise Land was not that much different from the brutal South.
As the article highlights, at the root of the problem is the framing. Professor Joe R. Feagin writes in his book, “The White Racial Frame: Centuries of Racial Framing and Counter-Framing,” “How we interpret and experience our racialized present depends substantially on our knowledge of and interpretations of our racialized past. The collective memory of that racist past not only shapes, but also legitimates, the established racial structure of today’s society….those with the greatest power, principally white Americans in the U.S. case, typically have the greatest control over society-wide institutional memories, including those recorded by the mainstream media and in most history books, organizational histories, laws, textbooks, films, and public monuments.”
3
As a black child in L.A. in 1992, and an adult in Baltimore in 2015, it felt the same. Sadly, many people stuck in multi-generational poverty have no hope for a better future, so telling people to improve their behavior in order to improve their outcomes often falls of deaf ears.
The people I know who have made it out are usually brilliant and so socially skilled they can get along with others and still work on their goals, or they are so ostracized for being nerds that they can work on their goals.
The people I know who have made it out are usually brilliant and so socially skilled they can get along with others and still work on their goals, or they are so ostracized for being nerds that they can work on their goals.
17
Most people I know that have done well are either so socially skilled they can get along with others and still work on their goals, or they are so ostracized (bullied) for being nerds that they can work on their goals.
Most are white.
So perhaps it isn't about one's color as much as personality and attitude.
Most are white.
So perhaps it isn't about one's color as much as personality and attitude.
1
If racism were something that could be solved by blaming people, it would be solved by now.
Let's try a different approach. Let's recognize that there are multiple problems, and that their causes and solutions are different. Let's also recognize that solving them will depend on cooperation between people of different races and different political persuasions.
Let's identify problems in concert with one another, and then come up with ways to measure the extent of the problems. Then let's implement changes and measure the results.
Some potential goals: reduce the number of unjustified stops by police by finding alternative means of controlling crime. Reduce housing disparities through improved public services and public works projects. Reduce the use of force by police by through advanced situational training. Improve public understanding of the law and law enforcement by teaching these principles in elementary school. And so on and so on.
There is so much that can be done to improve the problems associated with racism. We just need to keep working, and keep the blame-impulse under control.
Let's try a different approach. Let's recognize that there are multiple problems, and that their causes and solutions are different. Let's also recognize that solving them will depend on cooperation between people of different races and different political persuasions.
Let's identify problems in concert with one another, and then come up with ways to measure the extent of the problems. Then let's implement changes and measure the results.
Some potential goals: reduce the number of unjustified stops by police by finding alternative means of controlling crime. Reduce housing disparities through improved public services and public works projects. Reduce the use of force by police by through advanced situational training. Improve public understanding of the law and law enforcement by teaching these principles in elementary school. And so on and so on.
There is so much that can be done to improve the problems associated with racism. We just need to keep working, and keep the blame-impulse under control.
4
Nice to see the liberal orthodoxy alive and well on these comments: the problems that plague inner-city African-American communities are solely and exclusively the fault of a white power structure bent on keeping the black man down. The implication being, of course, that but for pernicious racism, few of the problems that face inner-cities would exist. This orthodoxy persists in the face of an ever-growing black middle and upper classes, not to mention a black President.
The ugly truth is that you get ahead in America by embracing a set of values that do not appear to enjoy the admiration of many in inner-city African-American communities. In point of fact, those values are frequently denigrated as being "white" and therefore undesirable (speaking of racism). Things like going to school and achieving there. Things like not impregnating young women who you then abandon to the welfare system. Things like not abandoning your children to fend for themselves on the streets. Things like not embracing music that extolls criminality, gun violence and misogyny.
When a liberal presents me with an inner city community that can point to a high percentage of its' children in school and achieving, a low number of illegitimate births, a low number of fatherless households, and a high number of people willing to take any job rather than turn to illegal activity or welfare, then then I begin to be convinced that black people are being held back by a racist power structure.
The ugly truth is that you get ahead in America by embracing a set of values that do not appear to enjoy the admiration of many in inner-city African-American communities. In point of fact, those values are frequently denigrated as being "white" and therefore undesirable (speaking of racism). Things like going to school and achieving there. Things like not impregnating young women who you then abandon to the welfare system. Things like not abandoning your children to fend for themselves on the streets. Things like not embracing music that extolls criminality, gun violence and misogyny.
When a liberal presents me with an inner city community that can point to a high percentage of its' children in school and achieving, a low number of illegitimate births, a low number of fatherless households, and a high number of people willing to take any job rather than turn to illegal activity or welfare, then then I begin to be convinced that black people are being held back by a racist power structure.
20
An unequal justice system and the fallout of the draconian drug wars, which locked up a disproportionate part of the male African American community, plays the same part in today's civil unrest as redlining, residential segregation and institutional racism played in the 1960s. If the mainstream press had been listening, it would've heard the "news," but that doesn't sell papers or clicks. Riots do.
1
Power structures (including the press) have a vested interest in obscuring the facts and reinforcing the status quo. If a group of folks can be assigned the title "animals" they are seen as "separate" and "other" can be brutally repressed with relative ease. Failing that, a sort of colonization known as assimilation is practiced (gay marriage, anyone?) to enforce hegemony.
I'm reminded of the Montgomery Bus Boycott. The press, and history, has lauded Rosa Parks as a singular, atomistic hero, the lone spark to a spontaneous, unplanned action. In fact, she was one in a long line of hundreds, if not thousands, of women throughout the south who had refused to move to the back of the bus in the preceeding decades and had been hauled off to jail. Jo Ann Gibson Robinson was the one who had the idea for the boycott (and wrote a fantastic book about the process) and organized for years, waiting for the perfect candidate (Parks) to eventually come along. Her book is available online, but tellingly, even today, I am unable to find a copy online that does not omit the first chapter-the one that speaks of the long history of arrests of women who refused to move. The press', and history's whitewashing of truth, erasing collectivism with the stifling mythology of the lone wolf, poisins and restricts positive change.
Should we all stop reading the NYT? I don't know, I look at it sometimes, even though it clearly values cultural hegemony over true news. The comments section helps...
I'm reminded of the Montgomery Bus Boycott. The press, and history, has lauded Rosa Parks as a singular, atomistic hero, the lone spark to a spontaneous, unplanned action. In fact, she was one in a long line of hundreds, if not thousands, of women throughout the south who had refused to move to the back of the bus in the preceeding decades and had been hauled off to jail. Jo Ann Gibson Robinson was the one who had the idea for the boycott (and wrote a fantastic book about the process) and organized for years, waiting for the perfect candidate (Parks) to eventually come along. Her book is available online, but tellingly, even today, I am unable to find a copy online that does not omit the first chapter-the one that speaks of the long history of arrests of women who refused to move. The press', and history's whitewashing of truth, erasing collectivism with the stifling mythology of the lone wolf, poisins and restricts positive change.
Should we all stop reading the NYT? I don't know, I look at it sometimes, even though it clearly values cultural hegemony over true news. The comments section helps...
This column has an interesting quote:
"...[Dr. Martin Luther] King had become “disillusioned with the power structures there,” whose representatives “showered praise on the heroism of Southern Negroes. Yet when the issues were joined concerning local conditions … the rejection was firm and unequivocal.”
It seemed for a moment that Dr. King said those words after a meeting in the White House with Barack Obama, even though those words were actually spoken a half century ago.
Advancing the Ferguson narrative (whether for TV ratings, internet views or singular celebrity) is a way to keep the Black community in a perception-driven societal caste. A unified, America-centered, civic minded Black community is a threat to the liberal establishment. Which is why we as a nation are constantly brought back to the evils of a bygone century.
As Black people we must stop taking the bait. No matter how tempting it is to put Barack Obama in the WH, we must as a people ask the right questions, to insure that someone grabbing the mantle of MLK's legacy is doing it for us, not just for himself. We must reject the Sharptons, Congressional Black Caucuses and tired race rhetoric of the past that in no way binds our future. We must make personal choices that work for our future, not to revisit the past.
All of us are only as good as our next choice. We can learn from Watts by taking the gift of now and rejecting the urgency of then.
"...[Dr. Martin Luther] King had become “disillusioned with the power structures there,” whose representatives “showered praise on the heroism of Southern Negroes. Yet when the issues were joined concerning local conditions … the rejection was firm and unequivocal.”
It seemed for a moment that Dr. King said those words after a meeting in the White House with Barack Obama, even though those words were actually spoken a half century ago.
Advancing the Ferguson narrative (whether for TV ratings, internet views or singular celebrity) is a way to keep the Black community in a perception-driven societal caste. A unified, America-centered, civic minded Black community is a threat to the liberal establishment. Which is why we as a nation are constantly brought back to the evils of a bygone century.
As Black people we must stop taking the bait. No matter how tempting it is to put Barack Obama in the WH, we must as a people ask the right questions, to insure that someone grabbing the mantle of MLK's legacy is doing it for us, not just for himself. We must reject the Sharptons, Congressional Black Caucuses and tired race rhetoric of the past that in no way binds our future. We must make personal choices that work for our future, not to revisit the past.
All of us are only as good as our next choice. We can learn from Watts by taking the gift of now and rejecting the urgency of then.
10
There is discrimination, there is police brutality, there is segregation (although it is now more a result of economics than of color). There are also a few self destructive aspects in the Black communities. All need to change.
I grew up in a city that went from white to black in 3 - 4 years. We moved due to a few too many death threats & fights (being white in school was not fun).
More than the change in complexion, what changed in the school was the total & complete lack of respect for education by black students. Education is the only thing that can lift a community out of poverty and it can't be taken away. It was also not in the least bit respected. It was not that the black students were less prepared but eager (or even willing) to learn; they had no respect for the process. The teachers, buildings, infrastructure, books, etc., were the same. The change was the students. They hated school, teachers, learning.
Some cops are brutal without excuse; discrimination needs to be eliminated & .. the Black community has to come to respect education & demand that its members get one. As a country we can reduce police brutality & discrimination. Only the Black community can decide to want/respect an education.
Every group that came to the US was discriminated against. None got ahead without hard work and education.
A Black friend of mine refused to be called Black. He was born in the Caribbean and called himself Caribbean. He wanted no part of the Black American experience.
I grew up in a city that went from white to black in 3 - 4 years. We moved due to a few too many death threats & fights (being white in school was not fun).
More than the change in complexion, what changed in the school was the total & complete lack of respect for education by black students. Education is the only thing that can lift a community out of poverty and it can't be taken away. It was also not in the least bit respected. It was not that the black students were less prepared but eager (or even willing) to learn; they had no respect for the process. The teachers, buildings, infrastructure, books, etc., were the same. The change was the students. They hated school, teachers, learning.
Some cops are brutal without excuse; discrimination needs to be eliminated & .. the Black community has to come to respect education & demand that its members get one. As a country we can reduce police brutality & discrimination. Only the Black community can decide to want/respect an education.
Every group that came to the US was discriminated against. None got ahead without hard work and education.
A Black friend of mine refused to be called Black. He was born in the Caribbean and called himself Caribbean. He wanted no part of the Black American experience.
21
Blacks kill, steal, loot and riot in the streets and yet whites are told time and time again that it's all their fault and that change must come from them. It would be comical if it weren't so tragic.
19
Whites also kill, steal, loot and riot in the streets. They do so today, and they have done so throughout history. (I myself have participated in what some would call rioting during political protest, as have many you would call heroes from U.S. history.) Some historians would contend that the United States was built on rioting and looting.
Please do tell us where change comes from, Mark.
Please do tell us where change comes from, Mark.
1
The last few estimates I have seen, state that less than 30% of African Americans voted in the midterm elections and in many local urban areas less than 23%. I brought this up in my political science class and the compulsive response by my professor and fellow liberal minded peers were along the lines of, "they feel disenfranchised and voting won't change the status quo". I responded by saying that over 50% of african americans (another very conservative estimate I read) came out and voted for president Obama and look who won. Demographics are no longer in the process of changing, they have changed. Yes, gerry mandering is entrenched, voting rights are being attacked and politicians, no matter their skin color, are corruptible but I find many of these excuses tangibly empty when I see abysmal voter turnout like these past midterms. You want change or more controll of your destiny, organize/donate, work hard and at least go out and vote. This may seem naive and simplistic but generally, I believe it is true. Untill I see voter turn out of 65%+ at elections, of minority populations (soon to be majorities), as a large majority of locol white populations do, change will be elusively and ostensibly controlled by so called white conservative.
7
Hopefully, we do better this time. And let's pray that Ferguson escapes more harm. The change will come slowly.
1
Options:
I. Western option: Behave politely towards all police officers - black or white.
II. Eastern option (east of Oxford). mahatma Gandhi's NON-violent protests.
Definitely do not attempt to hurt the authorities; it will back fire.
I. Western option: Behave politely towards all police officers - black or white.
II. Eastern option (east of Oxford). mahatma Gandhi's NON-violent protests.
Definitely do not attempt to hurt the authorities; it will back fire.
1
And black people haven't learned the lesson 48 years later from the riots in Detroit.
YOU CAN'T WIN BY USING VIOLENCE OR BY THREATENING VIOLENCE
The only way you win is by self improvement.
White society no matter how earnest it is(in most cases they don't care) can't do it for you.
Stop blaming things like the quality of the schools.
Even a bad education is better than no education which you get of you don't try.
The problem in the Public schools people complain about is more a result of the behavior students then the underfunding of those institutions.
Stop blaming the police.
Some cops are racist but that doesn't justify action by blacks that most cops will see as a threat to their lives and therefore will do things that will hurt black people.
You can complain about the drug laws and how they put a lot of blacks in jail but instead of complaining about those laws you should stop those people who are being arrested from taking and selling those drugs.
Help yourself and things will get better.
YOU CAN'T WIN BY USING VIOLENCE OR BY THREATENING VIOLENCE
The only way you win is by self improvement.
White society no matter how earnest it is(in most cases they don't care) can't do it for you.
Stop blaming things like the quality of the schools.
Even a bad education is better than no education which you get of you don't try.
The problem in the Public schools people complain about is more a result of the behavior students then the underfunding of those institutions.
Stop blaming the police.
Some cops are racist but that doesn't justify action by blacks that most cops will see as a threat to their lives and therefore will do things that will hurt black people.
You can complain about the drug laws and how they put a lot of blacks in jail but instead of complaining about those laws you should stop those people who are being arrested from taking and selling those drugs.
Help yourself and things will get better.
8
Any thinking person can take this nonsense apart. It's as if you haven't even read the arguments being proffered on the points you raise.
1
What Professor Theoharis omits from her predictable column about race is how easy it is to exploit past racial wrongs for pecuniary gains. Racism is becoming a cottage industry, not just for Blacks willing to exploit the color of my skin for their 15 minutes of fame (what's up with the oversized glossy of Deray McKesson and how much bleach do I need for my eyes) or purveyors of White guilt who create misleading racial memes to cast themselves above the fray, or in the Times case, producers of the documentary.
In law school I learned that in the most complex cases, the problem was all but likely to be the solution. That concept applies here.
My forefathers, brought to America as slaves, and heroes including Dr. Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer and Thurgood Marshall sacrificed their lives to give me, a Black man, the choice that too many Black youth are wasting.
I use that choice to love America, serve my country and earn respect by working hard, trusting God and doing my part as a citizen.
Too many in the Black community, like Al Sharpton, and on a much larger scale Barack Obama, are using that hard fought choice to incite, divide and deepen the wounds of past racial strife by portraying everything under a prism of race, clouded by delusion.
What we see repeatedly playing out on television and in the streets of Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit and the like are people making a CHOICE to act like thugs, and suffering the consequences.
In law school I learned that in the most complex cases, the problem was all but likely to be the solution. That concept applies here.
My forefathers, brought to America as slaves, and heroes including Dr. Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer and Thurgood Marshall sacrificed their lives to give me, a Black man, the choice that too many Black youth are wasting.
I use that choice to love America, serve my country and earn respect by working hard, trusting God and doing my part as a citizen.
Too many in the Black community, like Al Sharpton, and on a much larger scale Barack Obama, are using that hard fought choice to incite, divide and deepen the wounds of past racial strife by portraying everything under a prism of race, clouded by delusion.
What we see repeatedly playing out on television and in the streets of Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit and the like are people making a CHOICE to act like thugs, and suffering the consequences.
14
From reading a lot of the comments here (and seeing the associated "Recommends"), it seems clear that the right-wing elements of our society are still out-in-force on such racial issues.
Perhaps such comments are being "organized" by TPTB? Or...maybe they are just individual, genuine "differences of opinion"?
Yet, "Subtle Trolls" is what I'd call them. Or, perhaps "NYT Trolls" -- comments that are civil enough in language to get past the moderators, but still quite politically conservative in their viewpoints. Generally, not a NYT-reader's perspective.
A long struggle is still ahead, methinks. “But I have promises to keep, / And miles to go before I sleep, / And miles to go before I sleep.”
Perhaps such comments are being "organized" by TPTB? Or...maybe they are just individual, genuine "differences of opinion"?
Yet, "Subtle Trolls" is what I'd call them. Or, perhaps "NYT Trolls" -- comments that are civil enough in language to get past the moderators, but still quite politically conservative in their viewpoints. Generally, not a NYT-reader's perspective.
A long struggle is still ahead, methinks. “But I have promises to keep, / And miles to go before I sleep, / And miles to go before I sleep.”
5
I lean a bit to the Right & it's those "differences of opinion" that draw me to The Times every day.
I'd like to think I'm not one of your "subtle trolls", but if I am, is that such a bad thing? Or do you prefer echo chambers where only opinions in line with your preconceived notions & ideas can be found?
To each his own, I guess, but in my continual quest to have my own thoughts & ideas challenged (& changed), my daily visits here will continue.
I'd like to think I'm not one of your "subtle trolls", but if I am, is that such a bad thing? Or do you prefer echo chambers where only opinions in line with your preconceived notions & ideas can be found?
To each his own, I guess, but in my continual quest to have my own thoughts & ideas challenged (& changed), my daily visits here will continue.
3
This is an excellent article, and it is great to see the Times reach out to an expert on Watts and the current black civil rights movement.
It distresses me to read, what I assume to be white voices, still speaking out against "thugs" and those who do not respect "property." Have you noticed in the media, except for occasional street scenes, the "weighing in" on both sides is done by whites on behalf of African Americans? Maybe the slogan should be "Black Voices Matter." For example who knows the effects of black on black violence than the families ripped apart by it. Where are the grieving mothers who can shame those like Rudi Guiliani when he claims this problem is ignored?
What do you suppose the British said about the Tea Party? "Men who meet up in pubs to drink and put on disguises because they are cowards who attack and destroy millions of pounds worth of property in the dead of night. Don't tell me these "thugs" are patriots or seeking justice."
John Adams defended the British soldiers in the Boston Massacre trial calling the attackers "a motley rabble of saucy boys, negroes and molattoes" who did not respect the law or its officers.
Don't tread on me.
It distresses me to read, what I assume to be white voices, still speaking out against "thugs" and those who do not respect "property." Have you noticed in the media, except for occasional street scenes, the "weighing in" on both sides is done by whites on behalf of African Americans? Maybe the slogan should be "Black Voices Matter." For example who knows the effects of black on black violence than the families ripped apart by it. Where are the grieving mothers who can shame those like Rudi Guiliani when he claims this problem is ignored?
What do you suppose the British said about the Tea Party? "Men who meet up in pubs to drink and put on disguises because they are cowards who attack and destroy millions of pounds worth of property in the dead of night. Don't tell me these "thugs" are patriots or seeking justice."
John Adams defended the British soldiers in the Boston Massacre trial calling the attackers "a motley rabble of saucy boys, negroes and molattoes" who did not respect the law or its officers.
Don't tread on me.
3
If you blame the victim then you don't have to share in the responsibility. Its the fault of those thugs!!!
Well wake up, institutional racism is still a problem. If I had no money, no job prospects, no hope I would be hopping mad too.
I'm surprised by all of the white people getting defensive on this comment board. No one is blaming you personally. But part of solving the problem is acknowledging there is one.
Well wake up, institutional racism is still a problem. If I had no money, no job prospects, no hope I would be hopping mad too.
I'm surprised by all of the white people getting defensive on this comment board. No one is blaming you personally. But part of solving the problem is acknowledging there is one.
3
Being hopping mad is fine, but people that riot are not victims, they are violent criminals. They should be held accountable for their own behavior, as I am for mine. That particular community has been mostly black for many years. They got the government of their own choosing through voter apathy.
1
SK, the defensive reactions of many white people here is no surprise if you regularly read the comments on most any analysis of race relations published on the internet. Race is STILL a taboo among many white people in the U.S. This matter is supposed to have been long since resolved. Post-racial society and all that.
The anger and resentment and hatred still percolates. How dare blacks and their white allies continue to bring up race?! That's all behind us now. If blacks still have problems, well, they're obviously deficient as human beings.
Yes, that attitude is bizarrely myopic and self-serving, but there it is. Or *here* it is, I should say, on display for anyone who cares to see and understand how far we have to go.
The anger and resentment and hatred still percolates. How dare blacks and their white allies continue to bring up race?! That's all behind us now. If blacks still have problems, well, they're obviously deficient as human beings.
Yes, that attitude is bizarrely myopic and self-serving, but there it is. Or *here* it is, I should say, on display for anyone who cares to see and understand how far we have to go.
2
Americans do not learn from history and thus are bound to repeat it again and again. If you teach hate, preach hate and believe what you you shall not reap what you sew, you are in dream land.
Study the Civil War and the news of the day and tell me that the kind of people who caused that war are not itching for another and most people do not realize that we lost that war when reconstruction ended and the share cropping, refusal of employment, the KKK and Jim Crow replaced slavery. Tell me that voting rights and civil rights are not under attack and we hear the cry of states rights in Congress. No we learn nothing as a people from history so prepare for race riots and police brutality. It is American as apple pie.
Study the Civil War and the news of the day and tell me that the kind of people who caused that war are not itching for another and most people do not realize that we lost that war when reconstruction ended and the share cropping, refusal of employment, the KKK and Jim Crow replaced slavery. Tell me that voting rights and civil rights are not under attack and we hear the cry of states rights in Congress. No we learn nothing as a people from history so prepare for race riots and police brutality. It is American as apple pie.
2
I lived in a lower middle class neighborhood on the near-east side of Detroit as it made a transition from a modest neighborhood to a "ghetto" (not my words, those are the words of many African American residents). While this occurred my family and I noted the increase in crime and violence and asked for help in curbing it. We were accused of having a "police mentality" and having a "fear of the unknown". Our house was broken into several time and family members were assaulted and harmed.
Crime became worse and by this time Detroit had an African American mayor. I was accused of "wanted the administration to fail because it was Black"
By the time things became even worse most of the liberals and progressives had moved out long ago and said to us "why don't you move out already?". We then moved out (by the way the family accumulated no wealth over generations from our real estate).
Then we were then accused of "white flight" that led to the deterioration of our neighborhood.
People remaining in the neighborhood ask how things "got so bad". And the answer is it got that way because of the violence and crime on the part of the residents. You can cry "Wall Street" all you want. To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: "No Wall Street Banker ever mugged my father."
So on and on it goes...
Crime became worse and by this time Detroit had an African American mayor. I was accused of "wanted the administration to fail because it was Black"
By the time things became even worse most of the liberals and progressives had moved out long ago and said to us "why don't you move out already?". We then moved out (by the way the family accumulated no wealth over generations from our real estate).
Then we were then accused of "white flight" that led to the deterioration of our neighborhood.
People remaining in the neighborhood ask how things "got so bad". And the answer is it got that way because of the violence and crime on the part of the residents. You can cry "Wall Street" all you want. To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: "No Wall Street Banker ever mugged my father."
So on and on it goes...
30
On this point Ali was wrong. Ali was a descendant of individuals enslaved on the basis of their complexion. It was the temporal equivalents of those Wall Street bankers who organized and benefited from this practice. After the Civil War the system might have (gradually) been changed from a de jour to a de facto basis but the overall effect remained the same. That system remains in place to this day and the same type of individuals benefit. Call it a "high tech" mugging.
As Mario Puzzo observed in "The Godfather", lawyers and businessmen with their briefcases can steal more than any "criminal". After all, they are the ones who define "crime".
As Mario Puzzo observed in "The Godfather", lawyers and businessmen with their briefcases can steal more than any "criminal". After all, they are the ones who define "crime".
1
@BLM: Do you know the Ali quote I am referring to?
I will give my own version again:
No Wall Street banker ever mugged (and disabled) my father.
I will give my own version again:
No Wall Street banker ever mugged (and disabled) my father.
1
You can't have it both ways. When the protesters vandalize, rob and pillage, they aren't part of the protesters or are justified based on discrimination.
Look at the areas mentioned and what they have become. You can't blame that on discrimination. The blame belongs with the residents because they have allowed crime to flourish in their neighborhoods. Once this spiral starts it never stops. People who can, move out. Police are reluctant to go in. Investors stay out or run away.
While you see vandals trashing and looting stores, you see protesters shaking their fists and throwing things at the police. What you do not see is the protesters turning on the vandals and helping the police contain the crime. Then the residents wonder why their neighborhood has deteriorated.
Look at the areas mentioned and what they have become. You can't blame that on discrimination. The blame belongs with the residents because they have allowed crime to flourish in their neighborhoods. Once this spiral starts it never stops. People who can, move out. Police are reluctant to go in. Investors stay out or run away.
While you see vandals trashing and looting stores, you see protesters shaking their fists and throwing things at the police. What you do not see is the protesters turning on the vandals and helping the police contain the crime. Then the residents wonder why their neighborhood has deteriorated.
22
Poverty and misery tend not to lead to people to orderly lives.
You have misread the analysis presented by Professor Theoharis. The distinction you make is a false one.
I can't agree. Orderly lives are not limited to the rich. Nor are disorderly lives limited to the poor. It has a lot more to do with how you are brought up. Many people brought up in poverty and misery lead law abiding productive lives.
You are mistaken....we have learned ....and understand the long long road
to achieving understanding of racial injustices...and we still have a long long
way to go....
The Media hype and focus on violence does fuel the flames of hatred...and
this benefits the media...because more watch the media advertisers...
Media can be blamed for focusing on hatred...even in this way promoting
hatred...think about this.
to achieving understanding of racial injustices...and we still have a long long
way to go....
The Media hype and focus on violence does fuel the flames of hatred...and
this benefits the media...because more watch the media advertisers...
Media can be blamed for focusing on hatred...even in this way promoting
hatred...think about this.
4
Not too long ago the NY Times had a article about a Black Teen who kicked a cat, and the animal rights activists wanted the Teen sent to jail for the offence. Most NY Times readers were "shocked" and "baffled" that the black community saw this as a racial issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/nyregion/animal-abuse-gains-traction-a...
What NY TIMES readers could not comprehend was, Jailing a Black Teen for kicking a cat while the same black teen is under constant threat of death from law enforcement is clear tale of two cities!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/nyregion/animal-abuse-gains-traction-a...
What NY TIMES readers could not comprehend was, Jailing a Black Teen for kicking a cat while the same black teen is under constant threat of death from law enforcement is clear tale of two cities!
2
The criminal justice system is unjust for anyone whose lawyer is not the best in the courtroom. Poor people tend to have poor lawyers. perhaps the state should blindly assign lawyers to prosecute and defend, all at the same wage.
Watts was once Los Angeles’ most crime-ridden neighborhood, but today it ranks No. 16 with a crime of 62.2 per 1,000 residents, according to rankings maintained by the Los Angeles Times. Chesterfield Square, a predominantly black neighborhood, now tops the list with a crime rate of 133.2. As the New York Times pointed out yesterday (“Watts, 50 Years On, Stands in Contrast to Today’s Conflicts”), better policing has helped. The Los Angeles Police Department now dedicates 10 officers and a sergeant to each of the neighborhood’s housing projects. But the main factor in the neighborhood’s transformation has been demographics change. Once nearly 100 percent black, Watts has become 70 percent Hispanic. “Many blacks have moved to the suburbs in the Inland Empire and the desert north of Los Angeles,” the New York Times noted. So, the lesson learned from Watts appears to be that demographics, not bad cops or good cops, shape the character of neighborhoods.
11
Great piece, Prof. Theoharis. Especially the last paragraph. Interesting that the two posts so far (and I suppose now mine, too) immediately reference Bernie Sanders. What, if anything, does that portend?
-Charles Merriman.
-Charles Merriman.
If the "Black Lives Matter" signs are not just an empty slogan, why is there no national as well as local black outrage and mass protests at premeditated—not unexpected or accidental—killings of blacks by blacks?
Read Jason L. Riley article "Race, Politics and the Zimmerman Trial."
He states, "The homicide rate claiming black victims today is seven times that of whites…Some 92% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks"
In 1993, Jesse Jackson said: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
If he, a black man, was afraid of blacks what can we expect from the police whose lives may be in danger?
C.L. Bryant, head of NAACP said national attention from Sharpton and Jackson was not welcome.
"His (Trayvon) family should be outraged…they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,…like buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy."
The problem with African-Americans is they had or have role models who are self-aggrandizing, corrupt, adulterers, or anti-Semitic; leaders like Louis Farrakhnan, Al Sharpton, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Charles Rangel, Jesse Jackson, .
Where are black leaders like Martin Luther King?
Read Jason L. Riley article "Race, Politics and the Zimmerman Trial."
He states, "The homicide rate claiming black victims today is seven times that of whites…Some 92% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks"
In 1993, Jesse Jackson said: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
If he, a black man, was afraid of blacks what can we expect from the police whose lives may be in danger?
C.L. Bryant, head of NAACP said national attention from Sharpton and Jackson was not welcome.
"His (Trayvon) family should be outraged…they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,…like buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy."
The problem with African-Americans is they had or have role models who are self-aggrandizing, corrupt, adulterers, or anti-Semitic; leaders like Louis Farrakhnan, Al Sharpton, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Charles Rangel, Jesse Jackson, .
Where are black leaders like Martin Luther King?
13
"Black Lives Matter" advocates label references to black-on-black homicides as a racist tactic designed to distract attention from white-on-black violence. The common retort is that "We will start worrying about white lives when whites stop killing so any blacks." However, the data shows blacks are much quicker than whites on the interracial trigger finger. The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6) shows that 409 blacks murdered whites while 189 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks in 2013. Blacks make up only 13 percent of the population, but commit about 68 percent of interracial murders. Even when police homicides are factored in, blacks still kill more whites than whites kill blacks. Some of black homicide victims, of course, are killed by black police officers. A recent ProPublica study showed that most black police homicide victims are killed by white officers, “But in hundreds of instances, black officers, too. Black officers account for a little more than 10 percent of all fatal police shootings. Of those they kill, though, 78 percent were black.”
1
When the police cars came roaring in force up Florissant Ave. with sirens blaring and lights flashing, they triggered the very event everyone dreaded.
When will they learn?
When will they learn?
2
Speaking only to Baltimore, that city's government for over 50 years has been run by liberal Democrats, which shows that the liberal Democrat answer to every problem, i.e., throw more money at it, just doesn't work and that the liberal Democrats do nothing to help the African American community to raise themselves up, but rather keeps that community dependent on government. I suspect the same is true across the country. The Obama administration follows this same useless ideology and Bernie Sanders or God forbid Hillary would be just as bad. Time for a new playbook and give the conservatives a chance, otherwise we're in for another 50 years of the same failed policies.
16
Conservatives had a chance and destroyed the countries economy, military and lost the war on terror, drugs and Social justice.
Liberal policy is a fail unless of course we are talking about it in real terms, you know the one where there is actual results from Conservative rule that it competes with.
Liberal policy is a fail unless of course we are talking about it in real terms, you know the one where there is actual results from Conservative rule that it competes with.
Our local, state and federal governments are run by rich people with an interest in maintaining the status quo. Dividing people against each other is their equivalent of sending the halfback up the middle: a very basic play that they run aaaaall the time.
The sadness of your comment is revealed in that word "liberal." There were no "liberal" Democrats in the US fifty years ago.
Poverty creates problems that are complex and politically tough to resolve. Meanwhile the effects on kids can be permanent. Why can't anyone see the urgent need to fix it without resorting to local corruption? See the latest here.http://bv.ms/1Nl7HI2
10
This is going to get even more confusing as we saw the disruption and cancellation of the Bernie Sanders rally by two members of Black Lives Matter in downtown Seattle on Saturday. It is ironic that Sanders is likely the person with the greatest potential to changes lives, both black and white, being stopped from speaking by a former supporter of Sarah Palin.
It's not just the fault of the media but the political rhetoric of 'movements' with all of the strident language and big egos wanting to be seen and heard. Just as we saw in the 1960's with student protests like Students For A Democratic Society, Black Panthers, Gray Panthers, etc they eventually fall prey to being co-opted.
It's not just the fault of the media but the political rhetoric of 'movements' with all of the strident language and big egos wanting to be seen and heard. Just as we saw in the 1960's with student protests like Students For A Democratic Society, Black Panthers, Gray Panthers, etc they eventually fall prey to being co-opted.
20
Most of these places are run by democrats. Why would Sanders be any different? Same old, same old.
2
Sounds to me that the Republicans are afraid of Sanders and sent their shills in to disrupt his rally under the guise of "Black Lives Matter"....since there isn't a "Mom and Apple Pie" organization handy that they could hide behind....
To quote Frank Zappa from his song about the Watts Riot, Trouble Everyday, "I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish i could say I'm not white."
Having spent spent my entire life in Los Angeles, about to enter senior year in high school, I had never even heard of Watts. That, right there, was reason enough for the riot. Los Angeles certainly had, "voted for ghettos." The riot emphatically said we are here.
Having spent spent my entire life in Los Angeles, about to enter senior year in high school, I had never even heard of Watts. That, right there, was reason enough for the riot. Los Angeles certainly had, "voted for ghettos." The riot emphatically said we are here.
7
Shame on rioters of any color - and for how they destroy the property and lives of those of other colors during their rampages. Period.
That's not an Obama period. I really mean it.
That's not an Obama period. I really mean it.
16
Our national economy is driven by the FED with a mandate to maintain 5% unemployment to keep inflation low. We still have not figured out how the 5% without jobs and the other 10% with jobs that do not pay a living wage are supposed to survive.
1
Yet, there are ads for jobs in the newspaper. What to do?
The world that appears to be "out there" is always a projection of what resides within ourselves. If you want to change your world, the one you experience, there is only one way: change yourself.
When enough individuals do that, what appears as the outer world will actually change. Hopefully for the better if we made the right changes within first.
All other efforts are an attempt to patch up an illusion, that's why nothing really changes. It has to start with the individual, both white and black. The only way authentic change can happen.
When enough individuals do that, what appears as the outer world will actually change. Hopefully for the better if we made the right changes within first.
All other efforts are an attempt to patch up an illusion, that's why nothing really changes. It has to start with the individual, both white and black. The only way authentic change can happen.
7
If Watts is only now recovery from the riots of 1965 there are two lessons that should be learned. People who riot in their communities are fools and those who defend it are idiots.
51
As we constantly see in Gaza.
2
"Recent uprisings" have highlighted the high crime rates, poor work skills and education and unstable families in too many communities.
This has strengthened and worsened stereotyping and increased racial divisiveness and animosity.
This has strengthened and worsened stereotyping and increased racial divisiveness and animosity.
11
Recent 'uprisings', and the DOJ, have highlighted communities that derive significant portions of their income from disproportionately taxing black people by citing them for minor driving violations.
Instead of an income tax, Ferguson and other communities, has police ticket people for broken taillights, failure to signal when changing lanes, etc; mostly in black neighborhoods.
Rioting is always wrong, but so are these police activities.
Instead of an income tax, Ferguson and other communities, has police ticket people for broken taillights, failure to signal when changing lanes, etc; mostly in black neighborhoods.
Rioting is always wrong, but so are these police activities.
2
If rioting is always wrong, let's hope you are always denouncing any history of revolution against injustice. Or is ideological coherence too much to expect?
(Or might it help change minds?)
(Or might it help change minds?)
1
The Times continues with its theme that Blacks are victims, Whites are racist (either as individuals or because even if they are dirt poor and live in Appalachia somehow they are part of the White power structure and have the benefit of White privilege).
Perhaps the rioters in 1965 had a reason to protest, whereas rioting, not sure how much good that did. But to attempt to somehow link the thuggery in Ferguson and elsewhere with Watts or events of the 60s is ridiculous. There is no question in my mind that the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s was needed for change to happen. What is going on in Ferguson today and for the last year is simply a combination of race hustlers and the media (hear me Times?) trying to fan flames when there shouldn't be a fire. Idiotic stories and op-ed pieces in this paper marking the 1 year anniversary of the death of a thug who attacked a cop are one example. Stories and editorials focusing on DOJ findings condemning Ferguson and St. Louis County that use questionable statistics are another. And a general failure to put police-Black interactions into the larger context of Black crime rates is irresponsible journalism.
So keep it up, Times. You lose credibility daily.
Perhaps the rioters in 1965 had a reason to protest, whereas rioting, not sure how much good that did. But to attempt to somehow link the thuggery in Ferguson and elsewhere with Watts or events of the 60s is ridiculous. There is no question in my mind that the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s was needed for change to happen. What is going on in Ferguson today and for the last year is simply a combination of race hustlers and the media (hear me Times?) trying to fan flames when there shouldn't be a fire. Idiotic stories and op-ed pieces in this paper marking the 1 year anniversary of the death of a thug who attacked a cop are one example. Stories and editorials focusing on DOJ findings condemning Ferguson and St. Louis County that use questionable statistics are another. And a general failure to put police-Black interactions into the larger context of Black crime rates is irresponsible journalism.
So keep it up, Times. You lose credibility daily.
42
Pretty easy to figure out where a person stands. If you say the problems in black communities are due to conditions and history (meaning not individual rioters), then attempts to analyze the situation like the NYT is doing are at least the right approach. Though we may not agree with everything the Times writes, it at least opens the analysis away from a belief, like Ralphie expresses, that there are two races with different agendas and different behaviors forever and ever.
Apart from analyzing conditions, the other route is to blame individuals. Since so many black individuals are in the justice system, this approach concludes that blacks are defective as a race. If a person thinks, as Ralphie does, that the problems stem from whites coddling these defective blacks, that person believes in black racial inferiority. Either it's conditions or it's character guys. We must continue to look at racial issues and solutions together if we wish to escape racism.
Apart from analyzing conditions, the other route is to blame individuals. Since so many black individuals are in the justice system, this approach concludes that blacks are defective as a race. If a person thinks, as Ralphie does, that the problems stem from whites coddling these defective blacks, that person believes in black racial inferiority. Either it's conditions or it's character guys. We must continue to look at racial issues and solutions together if we wish to escape racism.
The Times certainly loses credibility among those whose myopia ensures a misreading of the historical analyses of structural racism it publishes.
If someone responds to your comment and misquotes you or misattributes believes to you -- and you respond -- isn't it incumbent upon the comment moderators to allow a response?
I grew up in the Cleveland area and saw the Hough riots of the late 1960's. Since then, everyone who could moved out of Hough and the neighborhood has only a fraction of the population it did 50 years ago - but plenty of vacant lots. Blacks have been free to move and now Cleveland has some predominantly black suburbs.
None of this has changed the fact that blacks account for over 50% of all homicides in this country and you can't tell me that institutional racism causes someone to kill someone else of the same race.
None of this has changed the fact that blacks account for over 50% of all homicides in this country and you can't tell me that institutional racism causes someone to kill someone else of the same race.
34
"you can't tell me that institutional racism causes someone to kill someone else of the same race."
People setting strict limits on what they can be told is part of this and many other problems.
For example, 'you can't tell me that people cause climate change'.
People setting strict limits on what they can be told is part of this and many other problems.
For example, 'you can't tell me that people cause climate change'.
1
Think you mean 50% of all homocides not carried out by police, not 50% of total homocides. And have no evidence that is even correct.
Plus, can you think of any black-owned and operated gun manufacturers?
Didn't think so.
Plus, can you think of any black-owned and operated gun manufacturers?
Didn't think so.
1
Oh gosh no, Jim. Being part of a structurally oppressed group that experiences violent suppression and systemic deprivation has *never* resulted in internal strife and violence among same.
Or maybe there's history.
Or maybe there's history.
1
Why can't we figure it out? Because no--or very few--white Americans can even acknowledge the insane depth of American racism. We cannot face it because if we did, we would have to do something. And that something would be like "losing something," the fear of the selfish child on the playground. If our peers with different ancestry are considered equal, we would lose our special treatment. White Americans are a lot like ignorant, spoiled, children.
7
The US refuses to face its problem. ' No justice, no peace' There is massive inequality and injustice toward minorities. Demilitarise both society and police and restore equal opportunity and wage fairness.
11
Hal
the next time a thug breaks into your house, be sure and ask for the demilitarized police when you call 911. Don't want anyone coming to save you who might have a weapon.
the next time a thug breaks into your house, be sure and ask for the demilitarized police when you call 911. Don't want anyone coming to save you who might have a weapon.
Lots of thugs in your world, Ralphie. What is being advocated is understanding. What is being advocated is societal change that will contribute to obviating most theft of personal property.
Yes, many people want a society without militarized police forces.
Yes, many people want a society without militarized police forces.
1
Ralphie, I am a former Scranton and upstate cop as well as retired military. My experience is that generally cops make poor soldiers and soldiers poor cops. The police mission is to protect and serve; the military mission is not peace but rather to rain death and destruction on our enemies.
1
Why haven't we learned the lessons of Watts?
Most of us (White Americans) been incentivized to not learn the lessons. And frankly, we've been pretty lazy about buying into an unsupportable myth. How? As most increased income and wealth has flowed to the already wealthiest among us, those of us who are not wealthy have been tricked to believe that our enemies, the people who are depriving us of a better life, are "the others," (Black Americans, mostly, but also Hispanics, particularly undocumented immigrants.) people who have been kept down, in fact even worse than we have been. We buy this absurd idea that Black Americans have simply been "given the store."
Our Federal and State budgets, our tax statistics, our income and wealth statistics, glaringly tell a far different story. But two many of us are allergic to the facts, allergic to the numbers. It's too easy for too many of us to blame the innocent - and way too easy for the wealthy, those in power, those who reap the benefits, the real takers, to convince most of us to believe in myths that are all too transparent, if we only had a modicum of curiosity and skepticism.
Racism is fed by mental laziness. The only relatively good excuse most of us have, is that too many of us are struggling to get by to be able to step back and think clearly. But we need to step back and think clearly. Or we're going to just keep getting hustled.
Most of us (White Americans) been incentivized to not learn the lessons. And frankly, we've been pretty lazy about buying into an unsupportable myth. How? As most increased income and wealth has flowed to the already wealthiest among us, those of us who are not wealthy have been tricked to believe that our enemies, the people who are depriving us of a better life, are "the others," (Black Americans, mostly, but also Hispanics, particularly undocumented immigrants.) people who have been kept down, in fact even worse than we have been. We buy this absurd idea that Black Americans have simply been "given the store."
Our Federal and State budgets, our tax statistics, our income and wealth statistics, glaringly tell a far different story. But two many of us are allergic to the facts, allergic to the numbers. It's too easy for too many of us to blame the innocent - and way too easy for the wealthy, those in power, those who reap the benefits, the real takers, to convince most of us to believe in myths that are all too transparent, if we only had a modicum of curiosity and skepticism.
Racism is fed by mental laziness. The only relatively good excuse most of us have, is that too many of us are struggling to get by to be able to step back and think clearly. But we need to step back and think clearly. Or we're going to just keep getting hustled.
87
Thank you. I was despairing at all the racist comments with all the "recommends". Sometimes the NYT comments section makes me weep for humanity. You have given me a glimmer of hope.
1
Very well said. It will not change until this happens.
Ok, if now we know that it is not only racial but socio-economic, that some whites and blacks within the "power structure" know but lie to remain in power, that many whites know the truth but many more willfully ignore it. Then why the hell do we keep recreating the same power structure to preserve the status quo? I have an answer. Black community residents know, community leaders know, social workers know, neighborhood health centers know, the data is there, the studies have been made, analysis interpreted and published, but many, many whites don't want to hear it, they even fail to see in the light of the "fire next time."
1
The only issue that involved racial discrimination in California prior to the riots which involved political activism was in regards to private agreements to restrict who could buy homes or rent property that excluded racial minorities and Jewish people. For a long time agreements in contracts regarding housing and sales of properties in many neighborhoods required the parties to not sell or rent to African Americans, Mexican Americans, Jewish Americans, Asian Americans, et al. Prior the riots in Watts in 1965, that was about the extent of actual advocacy regarding Civil Rights in California. The riots were a tipping point in the addressing of racial prejudice that seriously limited the ability of African Americans to achieve the American Dream outside of the segregated, Jim Crow Southern states. It did not just bring attention to Los Angeles but was followed in succeeding years by rioting across the country and the rise of concern about racial discrimination as well as poverty being causes .
1
The reaction to the riots in Los Angeles amongst the majority community feel into to broad categories, those who saw racial injustice as a cause the needed to be remedied to prevent more of the same and those who focused upon the self destructive results of the riots upon the people living in the communities as being crazy without feeling any concern about what injustices might have produced the riots. Politicians did not want to see any more violence like that while they were in office, and how they actually viewed the injustices that fueled the rage depended upon their private sense of moral responsibility. Some genuinely wanted and tried to address the problem. But Los Angeles is a vast place and all the rioting and death and destruction occurred in a spot with smoke rising that was many miles from where most other people lived and worked. It caused alarm but no sense of immediate peril to the vast majority of people who lived in that metropolitan area.
1
Thanks for the historical perspective and yet another restatement of the issues faced by black communities in America.
But what did we learn from your writing?
What do we take away besides the knowledge that, 50 years after Watts, the issues continue?
We have big problems in this country and we get 24 hours of news each day stating and showing us the problems.
Or more accurately the manifestation of the problems.
Statement and restatement on and on.
Where are the solutions?
Where in all the information is a little bit of good ideas to stop cycles of poverty and broken lives?
Let's break it down.
Kids are born. They are our future if we care.
They need stable homes.
They need healthy food and care.
They need safe neighborhoods.
They need early education.
They need nurturing by loving parents who have time and financial resources.
They need positive things to do in the community.
Education from age 3 to 22.
Then opportunity to be productive and find happiness as adults.
And then the cycle continues with their kids.
First comes neighborhoods that work.
Neighborhoods are a factory for happy, healthy people.
Or the tragic opposite we see too often.
Search "Purpose Built Communities."
Watch the video here on this page--
http://purposebuiltcommunities.org/news-press/pbs-newshour-highlights-pu...
It's time to implement solutions in every neighborhood.
With Watts in our memory but the future foremost.
But what did we learn from your writing?
What do we take away besides the knowledge that, 50 years after Watts, the issues continue?
We have big problems in this country and we get 24 hours of news each day stating and showing us the problems.
Or more accurately the manifestation of the problems.
Statement and restatement on and on.
Where are the solutions?
Where in all the information is a little bit of good ideas to stop cycles of poverty and broken lives?
Let's break it down.
Kids are born. They are our future if we care.
They need stable homes.
They need healthy food and care.
They need safe neighborhoods.
They need early education.
They need nurturing by loving parents who have time and financial resources.
They need positive things to do in the community.
Education from age 3 to 22.
Then opportunity to be productive and find happiness as adults.
And then the cycle continues with their kids.
First comes neighborhoods that work.
Neighborhoods are a factory for happy, healthy people.
Or the tragic opposite we see too often.
Search "Purpose Built Communities."
Watch the video here on this page--
http://purposebuiltcommunities.org/news-press/pbs-newshour-highlights-pu...
It's time to implement solutions in every neighborhood.
With Watts in our memory but the future foremost.
4
I totally agree with you about education, jobs, nutrition. How do you expect these goals will be realized? How about helping people (esp., of course, women) of color choose families with fewer children? I'm talking about free reproductive health care, sex education, and free abortion. Children may be the future, but it's not like there is a shortage of them in poor neighborhoods.
Failure to learn is a profound failing indeed.
There are multiple ways to fail to learn. One's desire for knowledge can be suppressed by outside forces. Or one might make choices that divert from opportunities to acquire knowledge. Or perhaps one just doesn't have that spark of curiosity that inspires the search for knowledge.
Prof. Theoharis identifies non-learning as a significant cause of racial inequality and violence in America today. The causes of non-learning need to be described so that they can be countered.
Some of the causes might include unplanned parenthood, social myopia, intellectual defeatism, and the distractions of religion, mass entertainment and billion dollar sports. It is the rare public school program that can counterbalance those forces. Societal, familial, individual and educational encouragements to learn need to permeate our population for us to sustain civilization and to progress as knowledgeable human beings.
There are multiple ways to fail to learn. One's desire for knowledge can be suppressed by outside forces. Or one might make choices that divert from opportunities to acquire knowledge. Or perhaps one just doesn't have that spark of curiosity that inspires the search for knowledge.
Prof. Theoharis identifies non-learning as a significant cause of racial inequality and violence in America today. The causes of non-learning need to be described so that they can be countered.
Some of the causes might include unplanned parenthood, social myopia, intellectual defeatism, and the distractions of religion, mass entertainment and billion dollar sports. It is the rare public school program that can counterbalance those forces. Societal, familial, individual and educational encouragements to learn need to permeate our population for us to sustain civilization and to progress as knowledgeable human beings.
8
Hypocrisy in the media, never would have known. I remember coming home from Vietnam on leave in 1969 and the first moon landing was happening. It was amazing that Passaic, New Jersey was blocked off because there were riots blamed on the Puerto Rican community. I had to explain, to the police, in my Army uniform, that I was on leave. The war was unjust and here was this crazy riot over housing, I believe, while we were putting a man on the moon on national TV and the riots were front page in the press.There were more problems in the world than teaching the Vietnam's a lesson. This is a broad issue of subconscious hatred that goes beyond race. The moon landing was a modern pyramid dedicated to the oligarchy. They probably created more useless management positions for cronies. Science and technology was a byproduct used as an excuse.
2
Reading commentaries following these kinds of pieces (especially Mr. Blow's) I am saddened by the unwillingness of my fellow citizens to admit their part in this struggle.
No one is really ignoring the black on black crime and murder rate, but that is not the point. That crime is one of the symptoms of the crisis in its entirety: lack of education, lack of jobs, lack of community, lack of family, easy access to drugs and guns, and an us against them attitude that is daily reinforced by the society and nation they live in.
Bad guys are always going to do bad things to other people, that is the nature of bad guys. (That we seem to be creating more and more bad guys is a societal problem to my mind.)
Cops, on the other hand, are supposed to be good guys. They are supposed to help their communities and the people in them stay safe. They are not supposed to be on hair trigger alert, they are not supposed to be soldiers on patrol in enemy territory, they are not supposed to be revenue agents. Yet those are the tasks we have lately assigned to them.
Our history shows us that white culture has suppressed the Negro people and their culture since the beginning of our Nation and now we are surprised that they have stood up and demanded that this suppression cease.
Whatever god or moral authority any of us answer to to, we have a lot of explaining to do.
No one is really ignoring the black on black crime and murder rate, but that is not the point. That crime is one of the symptoms of the crisis in its entirety: lack of education, lack of jobs, lack of community, lack of family, easy access to drugs and guns, and an us against them attitude that is daily reinforced by the society and nation they live in.
Bad guys are always going to do bad things to other people, that is the nature of bad guys. (That we seem to be creating more and more bad guys is a societal problem to my mind.)
Cops, on the other hand, are supposed to be good guys. They are supposed to help their communities and the people in them stay safe. They are not supposed to be on hair trigger alert, they are not supposed to be soldiers on patrol in enemy territory, they are not supposed to be revenue agents. Yet those are the tasks we have lately assigned to them.
Our history shows us that white culture has suppressed the Negro people and their culture since the beginning of our Nation and now we are surprised that they have stood up and demanded that this suppression cease.
Whatever god or moral authority any of us answer to to, we have a lot of explaining to do.
21
Sad to see we haven't progressed as much as we had hoped in the last 50 years. Yes, progress has been made but kids born into the black ghetto have a much harder hill to climb. Having said that, the black community cannot expect the white community to do the heavy lifting- it is not the way the mentality of this country is wired. Independence and self reliance is the social mantra. I agree that much more needs to be done to get the black community on a level playing field. But, the black community needs to do much much more for themselves to make themselves successful- and this applies to anyone- not just blacks. First of all, do not have children until you finish your education, get a job, and can afford them. The Sunday article featuring a 25 year old single mom with 3 kids she cannot afford expecting to get placed into high end housing is a symptom of this. There is no reality when it comes to what it takes to really get ahead. This normally comes from parents but if your parent is on welfare with multiple kids and a low paying job, you have no role models. Anyone with this pattern of welfare including whites- are trapped in this cycle but there is hope.Get birth control and develop yourself first before having kids. Do not do drugs and do not get involved in gangs even if they're pervasive in your neighborhood. People are already doing this and are being successful. It is hard- yes- but it must be done to break the cycle. Everyone- black and white- must take these steps.
19
It's good to see the respectability politics crusaders out again today. What would we do without these thoughtful prescriptions for how to solve our society's problems?
You know you're in for a good read when you see such scintillating analysis as this: "[T]he black community cannot expect the white community to do the heavy lifting- it is not the way the mentality of this country is wired. Independence and self reliance is the social mantra."
There is no "black community." "White community" is a hilarious construction, though quite telling. And the mind reels at a white person's prescription of independence and self-reliance for the descendents of black slaves who are still fighting for social justice in the face of a structural racism that can barely be mentioned without, well, such comments as this from Marian of Philadelphia.
You know you're in for a good read when you see such scintillating analysis as this: "[T]he black community cannot expect the white community to do the heavy lifting- it is not the way the mentality of this country is wired. Independence and self reliance is the social mantra."
There is no "black community." "White community" is a hilarious construction, though quite telling. And the mind reels at a white person's prescription of independence and self-reliance for the descendents of black slaves who are still fighting for social justice in the face of a structural racism that can barely be mentioned without, well, such comments as this from Marian of Philadelphia.
1
Whatever the causes or conditions may be, the current Black Lives Matter narrative isn't working. And when their spokespersons embarrassingly disrupt a rally for the only presidential candidate addressing their concerns in any serious fashion, it's impossible not to see their "interventions" as self-destructive.
Complaining about unfair media representation is a dead end. Focusing exclusively on race is a dead end. And fostering an US vs. THEM ideology that bludgeons those who may be sympathetic to the cause with guilt-ridden screeds that alienate rather than invite is the most glaring dead end.
Many are not listening because you're screaming at them.
Complaining about unfair media representation is a dead end. Focusing exclusively on race is a dead end. And fostering an US vs. THEM ideology that bludgeons those who may be sympathetic to the cause with guilt-ridden screeds that alienate rather than invite is the most glaring dead end.
Many are not listening because you're screaming at them.
46
Please try to understand that your comment here says much more about you than about Black Lives Matter and this historical analysis by Professor Theoharis. Screaming. Bludgeoning. US vs. THEM ideology. Guilt-ridden screeds. That's not how this white person is experiencing any of the public campaigning and analysis around this issue.
You're always being invited to understand and help; it's always easy to find excuses to resist doing so. Demanding that oppressed people adopt some particular comportment is a pretty early stage in the process of understanding what's going on. Hope you make it further.
You're always being invited to understand and help; it's always easy to find excuses to resist doing so. Demanding that oppressed people adopt some particular comportment is a pretty early stage in the process of understanding what's going on. Hope you make it further.
You seem to forget, Mr. Hughes, that this literally isn't my problem. I don't need to find excuses because I don't buy into the white-guilt song and dance that you and your colleagues insist on peddling – which by the way you've demonstrated quite well in your comment. Sorry, that nonsense doesn't work, and no amount of insistence on your part will change that.
I make no demands on anyone. Indeed, it's folks like you who persist in making self-righteous demands on everyone else. Perhaps someday you and your colleagues will realize that your perspective on the world just might not have the same priority or gravitas for others that you think it should. It's a different type of diversity that you fail to understand. Hoping you make it further as well.
Are we done with our session now, Doc?
I make no demands on anyone. Indeed, it's folks like you who persist in making self-righteous demands on everyone else. Perhaps someday you and your colleagues will realize that your perspective on the world just might not have the same priority or gravitas for others that you think it should. It's a different type of diversity that you fail to understand. Hoping you make it further as well.
Are we done with our session now, Doc?
4
"Any time that you are south of the Canadian border, you are South in America in terms of racism and bigotry". Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in August, 1966 at Park 270 on 85th and South Park in Chicago. He was answering critics-primarily local black politicians and ministers- who questioned his bringing his civil rights campaign to the Chicago and the North when racism was a Southern problem. I was there. Park 270 is now Nat King Cole Park and it is on King Dr.
During that summer while leading a march in a white ethnic South Side Chicago he would be stoned by someone among the violent white mobs. King would remark that it was the worst hatred that he had ever seen.
After producing a black mayor Harold Washington in the adopted home of Reverend Jesse L. Jackson, Sr., Minister Louis Farrakhan and President Barack Obama, black Chicago has progressed, regressed and stood still. Things are overall comparatively improved.
But unemployment, poverty, poor education, crime, mass incarceration, food deserts, bad health and medical care still exist. In the midst of a tiny destructive minority of the population who infamously become the iconic model of a pervasive black cultural pathology. While white family pathology, which makes up the American majority, is an individual occurrence.
The black community follows a dual liberation strategy of making their own accountable institutions and forcing American colored institutional inclusion. Baltimore and Cleveland are black ruled.
During that summer while leading a march in a white ethnic South Side Chicago he would be stoned by someone among the violent white mobs. King would remark that it was the worst hatred that he had ever seen.
After producing a black mayor Harold Washington in the adopted home of Reverend Jesse L. Jackson, Sr., Minister Louis Farrakhan and President Barack Obama, black Chicago has progressed, regressed and stood still. Things are overall comparatively improved.
But unemployment, poverty, poor education, crime, mass incarceration, food deserts, bad health and medical care still exist. In the midst of a tiny destructive minority of the population who infamously become the iconic model of a pervasive black cultural pathology. While white family pathology, which makes up the American majority, is an individual occurrence.
The black community follows a dual liberation strategy of making their own accountable institutions and forcing American colored institutional inclusion. Baltimore and Cleveland are black ruled.
14
My wife is the daughter of poor Irish immigrants. Her father made his living as the night manger of a funeral home and never earned enough to bring his family of 5 above the poverty level. She and her brothers and sisters attended Franklin K Lane High School and never gave a thought to college. They were raised to work, like their parents were before them in Ireland. The common denominator is the fact that they never looked beyond the borders of their neighborhood for opportunity. But for them this did not lead to despair, it led to creativity of sorts. They found work. They built lives. These limits and the determination to overcome them are blind to race. A colleague of mine who is black tells of his life in the Eastern Shore of Maryland. He made every effort to get out and make a life for himself as well and he was successful. But he says he was always and outsider to his friends and he was mocked as a "white boy" because he wouldn't subscribe the the life on the streets. My white wife had the support of her community as did her siblings to lift herself up. My black colleague had to overcome ostracization to succeed. Why does this continue to be so? Why do so many in the poor black communities not support the efforts of their own to rise above and succeed? Why do they prefer NBA players and the like as role models and not those who get out and move on? I don't have these answers. I wish I did. It is not a black kid white cop problem. It's much bigger.
55
"...The mainstream media played a pivotal role in this problematic framing, treating the Southern struggle as a noble movement and Southern white surprise over the movement’s strength as contrived and dishonest, while portraying local movements in the North and West, from New York to Los Angeles, as episodic, disorderly disturbances and Northern white surprise as genuine and sincere..."
Silly take on the issue, I think. Amongst the media, the egregious injustices of the segregated South appalled them and the majority of people in the nation, and they focused upon it and condemned the practices. It was not fun to look at their own communities' racial discriminations after feeling so strongly in reaction to the injustices in the South they were unable to dismiss them as they had for generations.
Silly take on the issue, I think. Amongst the media, the egregious injustices of the segregated South appalled them and the majority of people in the nation, and they focused upon it and condemned the practices. It was not fun to look at their own communities' racial discriminations after feeling so strongly in reaction to the injustices in the South they were unable to dismiss them as they had for generations.
1
The author cites Ferguson, Cleveland and Baltimore as places where African-American have faced injustice for years. Ferguson, Cleveland and Baltimore are all cities where the majority of citizens are African-American, so if they don't like the powers that be, vote them out. I understand that at one point whites were probably the majority, but they fled quite some time ago so it is time to start taking responsibility and voting the oppressors out. That is the way that a democracy works.
23
Except when voting restrictions and poll taxes and other forms of obstacles are put in the way of that right.
I agree that we should make it easier for all to vote by all means including having early voting and absentee ballots. However there are no poll taxes anymore so that is red herring (if I am wrong please cite evidence of an actual poll tax that exists in the US). The biggest problem is that people don't bother to vote (and this is a pan-racial issue). The reason that social security is the third rail of American politics is that older people vote in higher percentages.
1
I was there at this time. A young engineer-to-be -- the next September just out of a Texas college and working at TRW Systems in Redondo/Manhattan Beach.
Was visiting my long-time gf back then -- who had already graduated and was living in the LA area, working at Douglas Aircraft (El Segundo Division) as a mathematician. We (both Whites) drove through Watts during the riots, in her 1964 Corvair.
Nothing really spectacular to see. Some smoke from fires in the distance is all. But I remember, when we stopped at a red-light, the angry glares from the Blacks on the street corners were palpable -- and a few started moving towards us. We got the heck out of there, quickly. (Did return, though, over the next few days -- more careful in our timing and approach.)
Clearly, this event had an impact on my psyche. And...it's been a long-time coming, but I am so glad to see the racial situation has improved there, greatly -- though there is probably still much to be done, especially in education and jobs.
Now...if we can just get the rest of the country to catch up. Will take generations though, I fear.
Was visiting my long-time gf back then -- who had already graduated and was living in the LA area, working at Douglas Aircraft (El Segundo Division) as a mathematician. We (both Whites) drove through Watts during the riots, in her 1964 Corvair.
Nothing really spectacular to see. Some smoke from fires in the distance is all. But I remember, when we stopped at a red-light, the angry glares from the Blacks on the street corners were palpable -- and a few started moving towards us. We got the heck out of there, quickly. (Did return, though, over the next few days -- more careful in our timing and approach.)
Clearly, this event had an impact on my psyche. And...it's been a long-time coming, but I am so glad to see the racial situation has improved there, greatly -- though there is probably still much to be done, especially in education and jobs.
Now...if we can just get the rest of the country to catch up. Will take generations though, I fear.
1
What have we learned from the Watts Riots? Rioting hurts the communities where it takes place. In 1992, some rioters left their communities and set fires in communities many miles away, to make sure that people in other communities shared in the pain. But rioting does not fix what is wrong, even if heart felt. Sure it helps to share miserable feelings but it does not motivate people who are racially biased to stop being so, nor does it motivate people who have been indifferent to racism in others to risk offending them to convince them to stop.
47
It could be concluded that presently above all else regarding overcoming unfair challenges it's developing the following character traits that matter most: Attitude matters. Expectations matter. Thinking before acting matters. Considering consequences matters. Appearances matter. Behavior matters. Good values matter. Being constructive matters. Sound beliefs matter. Finding opportunities or creating them matters. Self-love matters. Self esteem matters. Choices and decisions and their consequences matter. Self respect and respect for others matter. Getting educated matters. Being independent minded matters. Asking for help and advice matters. Education matters. Personal growth and development matters.
As Mahatma Gandhi wisely stated: " Our beliefs become our thoughts; our thoughts become our words; our words become our actions; our actions become our habits; our habits become our values; our values become our destiny.
Successful people of color have discovered these truths available to all. And while not minimizing remaining racial challenges that vary in intensity from person to person, maybe after these many years since Watts it's now time to focus attention on teaching youth the above positive traits and personal characteristics that can help them overcome and move forward.
As Mahatma Gandhi wisely stated: " Our beliefs become our thoughts; our thoughts become our words; our words become our actions; our actions become our habits; our habits become our values; our values become our destiny.
Successful people of color have discovered these truths available to all. And while not minimizing remaining racial challenges that vary in intensity from person to person, maybe after these many years since Watts it's now time to focus attention on teaching youth the above positive traits and personal characteristics that can help them overcome and move forward.
9
In the years following Watts we've learned that the black struggle for equality is poisoned by self-destructive attitudes and behaviors. When the Justice Department fact that 90 percent of all black homicides are committed by other blacks is ignored by groups such as Black Lives Matter, we learn that these groups believe that only a minority of black lives matter -- those taken by rogue white cops. We don't respect such groups because of this attitude. When urban black school children drop out in high numbers and do so without comment by liberal black leaders, we learn that these leaders believe that education isn't important. We suspect such groups and leaders cherry-pick the social data to fit their narrative, and we don't respect them. The list of self-destructive behaviors lives on and on while blacks loot and burn their neighborhoods and liberal black commentators in the media fail to acknowledge the entirety of the problem; we wonder why these commentators are content only to blame white people, financial institutions and the body politic for all racial inequality. What is accomplished by putting it all on others, we wonder. Until blacks peer into the mirror and admit their own contribution to inequality, we won't respect them. Their continual narrative since Watts -- that there's someone hiding behind the scene, pulling strings, to cause them their woes -- will only postpone the day until racial diversity is viewed as a positive feature of our society.
65
What is the point of community and a sovereign nation unless we are all in this together for the purpose of improving all of our lives. There is no them and us. We are failing each other.
1
Have you not been paying attention to visuals of black leaders and pastors in various communities begging for all to protest peacefully. To black families who forgive when they are hurting. Blacks do look at themselves, their neighborhoods and businesses and recognize they have a stake in the analysis of the problem. That does not deny the wrongs perpetuated by institutional systems and deep seated and unrecognized biases by all. I was at a circus in LA when the Watts riot occurred. I was living in California when police were brutal toward anti-war protesters in Oakland. Not a great deal has changed, though a lot has. We want to believe people can "just get along" and for the most part people do get along---until something occurs and we are all aghast again. Passions aroused by failure of police, majors, governors and more arouse those most injured to behavior that all dislike. We are having another discussion on race, lives matter and black lives especially matter and some improvements will occur until the next time. I had a black friend in Houston who was kind, generous and with a wonderful sense of humor, but he was an alcoholic. His long standing pain finally took his life with his abuse of his body My first recolection of him was a man who was a thinker locked in a cage. Too many men and women are locking their pain in a cage.
Wow, so true.
1
As soon as I see some semblance of racial injustice like I did in the 1960s, I will join the present day movement - but not until. This is a fabricated movement, a racist movement, frankly, and looting and shooting are NOT legitimate responses to racial injustice, whatever that is today. This one falls into the lap of the black people of Ferguson. This is not about civil rights, but about lawlessness in certain cities. This is not at all what Martin Luther King was about. I was with him all the way, but this is a totally different phenomenon.
22
They harden too, the arteries of the soul.
You appear to have missed the point. Of this piece. Of the current movement and its foundation. And of history. You appear to be flailing at having bought the hype of little or no racial injustice--and now having to come to terms with the current victims of same telling you different.
And invoking MLK in this manner displays a revolting ignorance of the history of the civil rights movement in this sad country of ours.
And invoking MLK in this manner displays a revolting ignorance of the history of the civil rights movement in this sad country of ours.
The elites and exclusive have rebelled: after all they have had to "put up with" a Black President. When the Republican Party leaders/members of Congress are in the back rooms figuring out how to get rid of this newly inaugurated Black President, the scene has been set, hasn't it?
Why would we expect anything different from cities, courts, legislators, even churches who suck tax payer voucher money, to not contribute their own little part to the rebellion? This is part of the covert reaction to the "uppity black man in the White House" and his wife "who tries to tell schools how kids should eat" is quite apparent.
Those of us that believed in the Civil Rights movement, who were awestruck by the likes of Martin Luther King and still find John Lewis amazing are sickened by the lengths that have been taken today. We are sickened to segregate in some of the worst ways - not giving children the right to a public education - as the article points out for example, and by taking voting rights away.
The police actions are in the news, they are seen and observed and outright. But taking away voting rights and taking away the right to a public education don't make the headlines. As long as these things are not only covered up, but condoned, racial issues will continue to deteriorate in this country - and we have our so called leaders to thank.
Why would we expect anything different from cities, courts, legislators, even churches who suck tax payer voucher money, to not contribute their own little part to the rebellion? This is part of the covert reaction to the "uppity black man in the White House" and his wife "who tries to tell schools how kids should eat" is quite apparent.
Those of us that believed in the Civil Rights movement, who were awestruck by the likes of Martin Luther King and still find John Lewis amazing are sickened by the lengths that have been taken today. We are sickened to segregate in some of the worst ways - not giving children the right to a public education - as the article points out for example, and by taking voting rights away.
The police actions are in the news, they are seen and observed and outright. But taking away voting rights and taking away the right to a public education don't make the headlines. As long as these things are not only covered up, but condoned, racial issues will continue to deteriorate in this country - and we have our so called leaders to thank.
4
Are black children not in school? Are blacks not voting? It appears to me that they are.
1
When the media focuses on race there is too much emphasis on how people feel rather than the root cause of anger, frustration and despair. The Times recently quoted a survey highlighting perceptions that race relations have deteriorated. But a closer look shows that inter-personal relations and attitudes continue to improve. What has deteriorated are the conditions of structural and institutional racism and the failure of white politicians to do anything about it.
As this article points out, school segregation, housing and job discrimination and of course police conduct are all part of municipal systems. They are run by elected officials and policy is set to either move toward greater equality or to maintain the status quo.
In New York what has really changed in the last 50 years for blacks? Schools have deteriorated and rather than listen to the professional educators for improvement, our politicians listens to the business sector that turns them into profit centers. College is encouraged, but is less affordable.
The police philosophy of Bratton hasn't really changed. The state legislature and the governor have made little progress on criminal justice reform. Affordable housing is so far beyond the reach of everyone that we ignore that fact that New York remains a very segregated city. Shawn Bell and Eric Garner to name but two die due to police violence and it's ruled to be justified.
This is all a result of structural racism, not poor race relations.
As this article points out, school segregation, housing and job discrimination and of course police conduct are all part of municipal systems. They are run by elected officials and policy is set to either move toward greater equality or to maintain the status quo.
In New York what has really changed in the last 50 years for blacks? Schools have deteriorated and rather than listen to the professional educators for improvement, our politicians listens to the business sector that turns them into profit centers. College is encouraged, but is less affordable.
The police philosophy of Bratton hasn't really changed. The state legislature and the governor have made little progress on criminal justice reform. Affordable housing is so far beyond the reach of everyone that we ignore that fact that New York remains a very segregated city. Shawn Bell and Eric Garner to name but two die due to police violence and it's ruled to be justified.
This is all a result of structural racism, not poor race relations.
3
Forget race, let's talk income. As long as wages stagnate and the poor are suppressed, the poor blacks will always feel abused by the system, and poor whites will see the blacks as takers while they themselves have opportunities that are just as few and far between, turning the issue into us-vs-them.
Race was quite literally an invention by the colonial rich to get the poor to fight each other for status instead of banding together to demand more from the ruling class. Watts? Please, we're still ignorant of lessons older than the Constitution itself.
Race was quite literally an invention by the colonial rich to get the poor to fight each other for status instead of banding together to demand more from the ruling class. Watts? Please, we're still ignorant of lessons older than the Constitution itself.
3
Reality. Life is unfair. The lower tiers of all races are going to suffer, no matter what we do, no matter how much we spend. There are too many of them and not enough resources. That is the way the world works and has always worked. So our poor can't buy a Mercedes and can't move to Beverly Hills. Our level of poor is still incredibly attractive to the really poor people in the world.
On the other hand, the best and brightest of all races will almost always succeed-- if you don't penalize their success snd kill their drive by trying to tax them into equal poverty.
On the other hand, the best and brightest of all races will almost always succeed-- if you don't penalize their success snd kill their drive by trying to tax them into equal poverty.
7
Man, your music is so much better than your politics. Still, I don't hold it against you.
" The lower tiers of all races are going to suffer, no matter what we do, no matter how much we spend." We don't know that because we have not put enough resources into the idea of really creating a somewhat level playing field.
People who calls themselves conservatives really need to stop thinking of taxes as penalties or theft. They are not, they are the way nations finance themselves.
"Give unto Caesar..." and all that.
My dad was happy to pay his taxes, he told one and all that he was happy to pay 50% rate because the Nation had created the playing field where he could make enough money to be in that bracket.
The modern republican (and their handler class) are as fearful of true freemarket capitalism as they are of real democracy, they are happy to continue to profit from the crony monopolistic system that exists, but unwilling and fearful to welcome and invest in the products and industries of the future. Energy production comes to mind.
People who calls themselves conservatives really need to stop thinking of taxes as penalties or theft. They are not, they are the way nations finance themselves.
"Give unto Caesar..." and all that.
My dad was happy to pay his taxes, he told one and all that he was happy to pay 50% rate because the Nation had created the playing field where he could make enough money to be in that bracket.
The modern republican (and their handler class) are as fearful of true freemarket capitalism as they are of real democracy, they are happy to continue to profit from the crony monopolistic system that exists, but unwilling and fearful to welcome and invest in the products and industries of the future. Energy production comes to mind.
Yes, let's ignore all structural analysis of unfairness. Let's imagine that "winners and losers" is all about a natural order of human capacity; that we have a beautiful meritocracy.
And that the only obstacle to utopia is taxation.
And that the only obstacle to utopia is taxation.
This article is rewriting history and it does nobody any good to do it. The Watts riots were just that, riots. If there was any political activism beyond the Black Muslims and a the small fraction of politically active people in the communities of South Central it followed the riots. The focus of racial injustice to that point was still about the Jim Crow South even. The rioters were the poorest people with the greatest alienation from the greater society in a part of the United States where African Americans were better able to prosper than in the South. But just as racial discrimination prevailed across the U.S. it was prevalent in the lives of African Americans in Los Angeles. The difference was that people could find havens in ghettos which they could not under Jim Crow. But there was neglect and indifference with which African Americans in Los Angeles did have to endure from government, and there were lots of racists with who the had to work and to interact with, and there were lots of racists on the job in the L.A.P.D. The way the riots were put down, with harsh violence did affect the people in the African American community, and the rise of more people involved in political activism did occur. The people became far more demanding of relief from injustices from the greater community. But the damage wrought by rioters was not repaired well and it left the communities without equivalent or better day to day conditions for a very long time.
6
Without militancy and the threat of more, little change happens.
Institutional racism is just that, institutional. All the threads of power and policy are tightly woven into the governmental fabric that first must be unraveled, and then, rewoven to both create and even playing field and, at the same time, forms of affirmative action that bring minorities back into the segregated governmental structures --- this is a tall order for a political class who see's no evil and hears no evil.
4
We have learned. The Great Society used legislation to segregate African Americans in high density public housing that overwhelmed low and medium density housing neighborhoods causing the destruction of largely integrated neighborhoods. They also created a welfare state that largely rewarded large fatherless families.
With the war on drugs we have replaced high density housing with prisons to warehouse African Americans.
Next?
With the war on drugs we have replaced high density housing with prisons to warehouse African Americans.
Next?
6
Is it factually correct that the earlier communities were largely integrated? Can someone point us to solid evidence on this assertion, please?
1
Take a very close look at the problem and there is a very obvious however irreparable cause and that is the human animal instinct driven physical abuse habit. The human animal is not terribly intelligent as so many of them assume. We are very dumb as the majority of us cannot move even one step closer to intellectual reactions versus the physical ones which dominate the national news every day. Maybe it is time to call Mother Nature and/or all of those supposed gods out there and ask them to start again because what they supposedly created really did not work out properly.
"The human animal is not terribly intelligent." Your comment makes a valiant attempt to support your thesis, gotta give you that. Still, we're not buying that "physical reactions" aren't related to the "intellectual."
Defeatist misanthropy is often on display as a reaction to talk of social justice. It gets us nowhere, which of course is the point.
Defeatist misanthropy is often on display as a reaction to talk of social justice. It gets us nowhere, which of course is the point.
What the writer seems to forget is that the vast majority of those grown adults amongst African Americans living in Los Angeles in 1965 had grown up in the segregated states of the South and had come to California during World War II and afterwards for the jobs and opportunities that resulted and they experienced a lot more freedom and opportunities to prosper in California than they had growing up. They were aware of lots of racist attitudes and of racial discrimination but the ghettos were their neighborhoods in which they were pretty much left alone. They were acquiring property and offering their children far better than they had as children themselves, and they were focused upon that. They were mostly shocked by the rioting just like everyone else but they also could see the racist attitudes amongst the majority white population and the second class kind of treatment that they endured even being far from the South, so they understood a lot of the sources of the anger driving the violence. The Black Muslims were part of the community just like the Churches but political activism was not directed at injustices in Los Angeles, yet. The proposition of this article is simply wrong and it is so simply because the author did not do his research.
10
Back in the 1960s blacks were prohibited from voting, attending the same schools, universities, using the same bathrooms, sitting at the same place on public buses as whites. Overt discrimination in corporations and at private and public institutions was rampant. But legislation was enacted to remedy these overt forms of discrimination.
Today discrimination is much more subtle, and much more difficult to remedy through legislation. Can we enact laws requiring that blacks make up at least 13% (their share of the population) of all corporations, Universities, State and Local governments, police forces - and every other public and private organization? How about within each organization? Should it be mandated that every corporate board and executive management be at least 13% black?
Take the NYTimes. Did you know that it has only one black out of 12 columnists (Charles Blow), and one black out of 18 on the editorial board (Brent Staples)? See the NYT website. Is that discriminatory?
It seems to me that laws can't fix everything. I don't know what the solutions are, but I believe that blacks share some responsibility for their own condition. They have a much higher percentage of single parent homes, high school drop out rates, and crime than any other racial segment. There are many very successful blacks, but, while whites need to find ways to end discrimination, the black community as a whole need to figure out ways of succeeding in our society.
Today discrimination is much more subtle, and much more difficult to remedy through legislation. Can we enact laws requiring that blacks make up at least 13% (their share of the population) of all corporations, Universities, State and Local governments, police forces - and every other public and private organization? How about within each organization? Should it be mandated that every corporate board and executive management be at least 13% black?
Take the NYTimes. Did you know that it has only one black out of 12 columnists (Charles Blow), and one black out of 18 on the editorial board (Brent Staples)? See the NYT website. Is that discriminatory?
It seems to me that laws can't fix everything. I don't know what the solutions are, but I believe that blacks share some responsibility for their own condition. They have a much higher percentage of single parent homes, high school drop out rates, and crime than any other racial segment. There are many very successful blacks, but, while whites need to find ways to end discrimination, the black community as a whole need to figure out ways of succeeding in our society.
39
At what point does justified activism become unjustified violent criminality, extortion, and vandalism? I don't know and couldn't possibly come up with a way of determining percentages. But, there's a whole lot of both out there today and the media appears bent on focusing only on one side which is not the case in all of these instances.
How many of present difficulties were the partial result of civil disobedience or criminal activity or failure to respond to lawful police orders to begin with?
How many of present difficulties were the partial result of civil disobedience or criminal activity or failure to respond to lawful police orders to begin with?
13
An important distinction is that many of the events today are centrally due to militarization of the police force and a creed (supported by much of the American people) that police are allowed to act as they please in response to any provocation, including the indiscriminate use of lethal force. I think many, if not most people nowadays, are afraid of the police. If they are not, they should be. We are slowly devolving to becoming a police state.
14
Were the police really any less thugish in the '60's? They called out the National Guard pretty quickly in Watts (and Detroit, Kent State, Selma, etc.).
The lesson of Watts and other riots is that they destroy neighborhood and condemn thousands to greater crime, poverty, violence, and alienation. The violence drives away people who would otherwise work with those in need, and creates a poisonous environment of anger, victimhood, and ignorance.
20
The lesson of internet comments is that people will say most anything in order to resist cogent analysis that threatens their assessment of power relations.
There is no physical evidence anyone can examine or analyze that corroborates the stories and pictures of Ferguson, Cincinnati and Baltimore. Stories and pictures are very weak evidence, it is almost laughable to call stories and pictures evidence but they are the only cited forms "evidence" and an example of circular logic which of course is fallacious thinking.
2
History can't be undone, but it can be learned from, though lately leaders all around the world have done a remarkably poor job of doing so. Our invasion of Iraq, our prolonged presence in Afghanistan, and the imposition of economic austerity are all concrete examples of the lessons of history having been, and being, ignored.
Seeing as how this is an election year, it is fair to point out that the history in this column represents a legitimate political opportunity for one party (And it won't be the Republicans.) to learn the correct lesson from history and to act on it.
Seeing as how this is an election year, it is fair to point out that the history in this column represents a legitimate political opportunity for one party (And it won't be the Republicans.) to learn the correct lesson from history and to act on it.
2
There are so many problems in many of our larger cities that it is hard to know where to start. Our political systems seem to keep the people more or less tied to those areas. Much resistance comes when private and/or charter schools are suggested to help with education. Enterprise zones are suggested giving tax breaks to those who invest in those areas and create jobs. But for the most part all of these piece meal efforts seem to hardly make a dent in the problems.
Sometimes it seems that only major assistance to whole families which supplies education, social services, jobs, and retraining will help and even then perhaps by giving the families the option of all going into schooling and training and working part time in a campus or camp environment for a year or more will do the job. For a fresh start a full fledged fresh start and then placement assistance for a few years to get settled and working successfully in new neighborhoods. Would any volunteer? Many might. Would those who benefit from the current piecemeal efforts in the same neighborhoods allow it? Perhaps but probably not. Most just respond: but for the lack of more money we could make it work. LBJ began the effort, perhaps some future president can bring fresh thinking to the table.
Sometimes it seems that only major assistance to whole families which supplies education, social services, jobs, and retraining will help and even then perhaps by giving the families the option of all going into schooling and training and working part time in a campus or camp environment for a year or more will do the job. For a fresh start a full fledged fresh start and then placement assistance for a few years to get settled and working successfully in new neighborhoods. Would any volunteer? Many might. Would those who benefit from the current piecemeal efforts in the same neighborhoods allow it? Perhaps but probably not. Most just respond: but for the lack of more money we could make it work. LBJ began the effort, perhaps some future president can bring fresh thinking to the table.
1
It is disappointing to me that the federal investigation of Ferguson was so brief and cursory. To find that blacks were targeted for offenses, apparently to enhance local revenue, and denied constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure, is fine, but is there more to it? I have always been curious if such targeting was meant to maintain the political dominance of a minority by disqualifying those in the majority who would seek elective office or municipal jobs, jobs possibly denied or discouraged due to law enforcement involvement. I do not believe this was ever looked into. A more thorough investigation may have helped with the current situation.
1
pres Obama's department of justice, headed by eric holder, said that the cop was not at fault in the death of mike brown...what more do these people want? do they like to riot and loot? nothing good on tv?
2
The social fabric must be so knit as to allow all, especially including those of color, to find the lives that will most support their talents and other gifts to that fabric.
Sorry, if you loot, burn and shoot at the cops, you are a thug, and no amount of spin doctorism from the NYT will make it anything else
84
Violence against women and minorities counts less to far too many of us than violence against property.
I imagine the British tea merchants were pretty aghast at their property floating in the harbor.
I imagine the British tea merchants were pretty aghast at their property floating in the harbor.
2
Hmmm, was there not a time when the people who boarded boats that were not theirs, and tossed tea into Boston Harbor? Was there not a time when Patrick Henry exclaimed "Give me liberty or give me death!"? Was there not a time when thirteen colonies on the east coast of North America told the King of England that this oppression must end? Did the people in these colonies make a Declaration that certain inalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness been given to all human beings by their Creator, and for which governments are created to protect? And when denial of such core rights continued for decades, did not brave people in those colonines finally said "Enough!" and were willing to fight for their freedom? Did the Minutemen shoot and kill the British Redcoats who were sent there to keep law and order? And did not the ruling class in England label those people rebels, if not thugs? We call them patriots and freedom fighters. The struggle for freedom has not yet ended for certain people in this country. Those people are not thugs either.
They sure try their hardest though, don't they?
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
Frederick Douglass
The demand for justice and equity, unfortunately, will resonate less strongly than the demand for jobs and good schools. How can those of good will help frame the message to allow for social investment? The congress will not be riding to the rescue. And neither will the states.
Is the problem intractable?
Frederick Douglass
The demand for justice and equity, unfortunately, will resonate less strongly than the demand for jobs and good schools. How can those of good will help frame the message to allow for social investment? The congress will not be riding to the rescue. And neither will the states.
Is the problem intractable?
1
As the .1% try to increase their bank accounts they need to increase their control over the people to avoid a rebellion. To do this they need to find someone for the lowly minions to blame for their economic state of continually worsening poverty. How handy it is for the Overlords and their GOP puppets to have people with different colored skin to blame. With the nation's governments (state, county and city) running on fumes for a budget, the tension is rising to a boiling point. We now have police increasingly arresting people (mostly people of color, but anyone that is handy really) for trivial offenses or even made up offenses, just so the system can fine this offender to add more fumes to the budget. This cannot last. The first step in rectifying this cancer is to elect Bernie Sanders to our presidency. He is the only one that has consistently fought the oligarchs that are ruining our country. And if we give him a congress that will work with him (less GOP, more Democrats), we might start making progress.
5
No question, the hypocrisy up north was very real. The white suburbs I grew up in were supportive of Dr. King and the movement, but that didn't mean blacks were welcome in the neighborhood. "Separate but equal" was the (largely unspoken) belief, and behind that no one cared too much about how equal or not things were.
Nevertheless, it's justifiable today to talk about thugs, who certainly do exist, so long as we don't make them an excuse for stereotyping and worse. One of the ironies of the Civil Rights movement is that just when legal equality (that is, equality on paper) was achieved, the decline of family and community life began in large swaths of the African-American population. This has contributed mightily to the poverty and criminality that exists in many areas of the United States today.
The sad events of the past few years have again highlighted the fact that racism runs deep in America. But while racism is the outstanding fact of the black/white divide, it's not the only malignancy affecting our society.
Nevertheless, it's justifiable today to talk about thugs, who certainly do exist, so long as we don't make them an excuse for stereotyping and worse. One of the ironies of the Civil Rights movement is that just when legal equality (that is, equality on paper) was achieved, the decline of family and community life began in large swaths of the African-American population. This has contributed mightily to the poverty and criminality that exists in many areas of the United States today.
The sad events of the past few years have again highlighted the fact that racism runs deep in America. But while racism is the outstanding fact of the black/white divide, it's not the only malignancy affecting our society.
5
Blacks still constitute a distinct underclass, and Jeanne Theoharis is right that this presents the threat of unrest and disorder.
After the failure of our government and our people to negotiate properly the reintegration of the world market, blacks were the first to lose their jobs in the reasonably well-paying manufacturing sector "(last to be hired first to be fired").
The relative decline of the American economy in the 1970s and 1980s was commensurate with the rise of the Republican Party, an anti-government regulation party. We never did manage redevelopment in a way that would reintegrate blacks into the economy because: we did little to refashion our automobile industry to keep it a world leader and we lost a massive amount of market share to European and Japanese manufacturers as a result . And we desegregated the country with policy makers and Supreme Court Justices indisposed toward racial equality.
That's how we arrived at the tinder box of today. Tinder box I say? On what grounds. On the ground that blacks can readily perceive that they are excluded from most of the benefits that this society has on offer. And that is the traditional ground for rebellion and counter action against injustice. When the injustice is due to impersonal forces of the market, the lower strata can't see it. But you can see mass incarceration of your people, you can see on TV that a good many whites are living large and your people are tacky.
After the failure of our government and our people to negotiate properly the reintegration of the world market, blacks were the first to lose their jobs in the reasonably well-paying manufacturing sector "(last to be hired first to be fired").
The relative decline of the American economy in the 1970s and 1980s was commensurate with the rise of the Republican Party, an anti-government regulation party. We never did manage redevelopment in a way that would reintegrate blacks into the economy because: we did little to refashion our automobile industry to keep it a world leader and we lost a massive amount of market share to European and Japanese manufacturers as a result . And we desegregated the country with policy makers and Supreme Court Justices indisposed toward racial equality.
That's how we arrived at the tinder box of today. Tinder box I say? On what grounds. On the ground that blacks can readily perceive that they are excluded from most of the benefits that this society has on offer. And that is the traditional ground for rebellion and counter action against injustice. When the injustice is due to impersonal forces of the market, the lower strata can't see it. But you can see mass incarceration of your people, you can see on TV that a good many whites are living large and your people are tacky.
1
Actually, "thug" is a pretty good description of the actions of looting and burning down buildings Big difference between the the March on Selma and the destruction of Watts
38
You are right; in Selma the rioting and looting and beatings were done by the police, sheriffs and all those law abiding citizens. Against the black folks who were peaceably marching. Maybe the folks in Watts saw those news reels and decided that wasn't going to happen to them.
Our revolutionary war was not won by reasoning with the British, that was tried and found wanting.
Our revolutionary war was not won by reasoning with the British, that was tried and found wanting.
What have I learned from Watts.
That though the US, state and local governments have spent a lot of money since the 1960’s to try to improve the lot of African Americans many still are living in horrific neighborhoods filled with violence. This is terrible.
Nevertheless some of these programs have been very beneficial for those African Americans who utilize the opportunities afforded them and have improved their lives significantly. This is a good thing.
That people still hold racists tendencies. A newish construct is to say that people are “tribal”; that is, they are not quite civilized and hold views of other groups (usually negative) that are often not true. This is unfortunate but true of almost all peoples.
Because the issues are so deeply ingrained in the various cultures in the US; there needs to be a peace treaty signed between the races that looks objectively at the facts on all sides; and as in any peace negotiation, both parties will have to compromise if it is to be functional.
This unlikely as so many people (on both sides) have too much money riding on so many different horses.
Even with a peace treaty there will still be those few evil persons of all races that will not relinquish their arrogance, bigotry and racism. Most often people just will not learn.
That though the US, state and local governments have spent a lot of money since the 1960’s to try to improve the lot of African Americans many still are living in horrific neighborhoods filled with violence. This is terrible.
Nevertheless some of these programs have been very beneficial for those African Americans who utilize the opportunities afforded them and have improved their lives significantly. This is a good thing.
That people still hold racists tendencies. A newish construct is to say that people are “tribal”; that is, they are not quite civilized and hold views of other groups (usually negative) that are often not true. This is unfortunate but true of almost all peoples.
Because the issues are so deeply ingrained in the various cultures in the US; there needs to be a peace treaty signed between the races that looks objectively at the facts on all sides; and as in any peace negotiation, both parties will have to compromise if it is to be functional.
This unlikely as so many people (on both sides) have too much money riding on so many different horses.
Even with a peace treaty there will still be those few evil persons of all races that will not relinquish their arrogance, bigotry and racism. Most often people just will not learn.
I learned that violence in response to social injustice is a loser for the victims of that social injustice. The Confederate flag didn't get taken down by rioting and violence. Instead the noble reaction of the victim's families promoted a new respect and empathy for those people. Someone holy once said that violence only breeds more violence. What the country got out of Watts was the Reagan "revolution" and thirty years of racism along with falling expectations for the socially disadvantaged. Someone who could step back from their feelings of righteous anger would surely see that Watts was wrong path to the social change they imagine they wanted while burning, looting and killing. These angry and hopeless people instead needed hope and leadership. But King and Gandhi were dead and their spirits didn't reach into the heart of the Watts Ghetto.
15
Pervasive social injustice is one thing, but a police officer beating a person is a crime about which no tepid phrase does justice.
Zero tolerance for the crimes of those given the responsibility, the gun, the taser, the pepper spray, and the nightstick to protect and serve the people. Can't tell me police leadership doesn't know better than that.
Zero tolerance for the crimes of those given the responsibility, the gun, the taser, the pepper spray, and the nightstick to protect and serve the people. Can't tell me police leadership doesn't know better than that.
3
Perhaps Ms Theoharis hasn't learned the history of Watts.
The riots led directly to the economic devastation of LA, amplified by the 1992 riots.
The people who suffered the most from their explosive anger were the people who lived in the locale of those riots.
The people who benefited most from the riots were the racists who claimed that black riotous behavior was the norm, hence justifying their racism.
Since the author didn't experience those times and obviously isn't aware of the differences, let's point out three for starters.
1. The institutional forces of racist segregation have largely been dismantled. The reason why there is no Rosa Parks today is because there is no need for a Rosa Parks today. (Ms Theoharis is the author of a biography of Rosa Parks and should know).
2. The rate of unwed children born to black mothers has changed from ~25% in the 1960s to ~80% today. The correlation of poverty to single parent unwed mother headed families is well demonstrated for both blacks and whites. Children from both such "families" are far more likely to drop out of school and drop into the court system.
3. The rise of drug gangs within the black community since then has destroyed whatever quality of life the poor once were able to find within their neighborhood. The people committing drive-by shootings today are not the KKK.
Sorry, but the continued rationalization for the actions of thugs only alienates the very people needed to create racial harmony.
The riots led directly to the economic devastation of LA, amplified by the 1992 riots.
The people who suffered the most from their explosive anger were the people who lived in the locale of those riots.
The people who benefited most from the riots were the racists who claimed that black riotous behavior was the norm, hence justifying their racism.
Since the author didn't experience those times and obviously isn't aware of the differences, let's point out three for starters.
1. The institutional forces of racist segregation have largely been dismantled. The reason why there is no Rosa Parks today is because there is no need for a Rosa Parks today. (Ms Theoharis is the author of a biography of Rosa Parks and should know).
2. The rate of unwed children born to black mothers has changed from ~25% in the 1960s to ~80% today. The correlation of poverty to single parent unwed mother headed families is well demonstrated for both blacks and whites. Children from both such "families" are far more likely to drop out of school and drop into the court system.
3. The rise of drug gangs within the black community since then has destroyed whatever quality of life the poor once were able to find within their neighborhood. The people committing drive-by shootings today are not the KKK.
Sorry, but the continued rationalization for the actions of thugs only alienates the very people needed to create racial harmony.
60
Is it possible that the increased percentage of children born to unwed Black American women has anything to do with the increased percentage of young Black American men who have been incarcerated for long terms, largely for non-violent crimes such as possession or sale of drugs, crimes that young White American men are disproportionately not incarcerated for?
Many women are going to have children whether or not there are enough men around to help raise those children. Projections of the growth of the African American population relative to the entire U.S. population from now through 2050 shows only a mild increase in the proportionate population of African Americans, from 13.2% to 14.4% of the total population. Black American women, in aggregate, are not having an inordinate number of children. But inordinate incarceration of Black American men is compelling an inordinate number of Black American women to choose between being childless, or being unwed mothers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Projections
I would bet that, were Black American men proportionately un-imprisoned, and they have proportionate economic opportunity, the rate of children born to Black American women would decline significantly to rates comparable to other women. Rational access to sex education and contraception would not hurt either.
Most mothers want what is best for their children. We should all want what is best for all mothers. It's in our own interest to do so.
Many women are going to have children whether or not there are enough men around to help raise those children. Projections of the growth of the African American population relative to the entire U.S. population from now through 2050 shows only a mild increase in the proportionate population of African Americans, from 13.2% to 14.4% of the total population. Black American women, in aggregate, are not having an inordinate number of children. But inordinate incarceration of Black American men is compelling an inordinate number of Black American women to choose between being childless, or being unwed mothers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Projections
I would bet that, were Black American men proportionately un-imprisoned, and they have proportionate economic opportunity, the rate of children born to Black American women would decline significantly to rates comparable to other women. Rational access to sex education and contraception would not hurt either.
Most mothers want what is best for their children. We should all want what is best for all mothers. It's in our own interest to do so.
3
Dear TDurk a few points:
1. Dr. Theoharis has also written extensively on Watts ("she should know").
2. Yes, there is institutional racism. Start with the court ruling against NYC's stop and frisk program (and there is laissez-faire racism--look it up. You might have heard of it).
3. The number of African American out of wedlock births has GONE DOWN, from 97 per 1,000 in 1971 to 53 per 1,000 today. Playing it as % is a mug's game (Here this should help: http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/understanding-out-of-we...
4. I am no expert on the quality of life in black neighborhoods as a white man, but I've lived in four of them. To declare them dead instead of under stress is not to have seen them. 6% of residents commit 80% of these crimes. Italy's Calibrese mafia runs 80% of Europe's cocaine traffic and Italy's Casa Nastra assassinated the brother of their current president. What does that tell you about cultural failure?
Everyone should read Dr. Theoharis' other work. Edifying,.
1. Dr. Theoharis has also written extensively on Watts ("she should know").
2. Yes, there is institutional racism. Start with the court ruling against NYC's stop and frisk program (and there is laissez-faire racism--look it up. You might have heard of it).
3. The number of African American out of wedlock births has GONE DOWN, from 97 per 1,000 in 1971 to 53 per 1,000 today. Playing it as % is a mug's game (Here this should help: http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/understanding-out-of-we...
4. I am no expert on the quality of life in black neighborhoods as a white man, but I've lived in four of them. To declare them dead instead of under stress is not to have seen them. 6% of residents commit 80% of these crimes. Italy's Calibrese mafia runs 80% of Europe's cocaine traffic and Italy's Casa Nastra assassinated the brother of their current president. What does that tell you about cultural failure?
Everyone should read Dr. Theoharis' other work. Edifying,.
13
Sorry, sloppy editing:
"I would bet that, were Black American men proportionately un-imprisoned, and they have proportionate economic opportunity, the rate of children born to UNWED Black American women would decline significantly to rates comparable to other women."
Simply more Black American women would have partners to raise their children with.
"I would bet that, were Black American men proportionately un-imprisoned, and they have proportionate economic opportunity, the rate of children born to UNWED Black American women would decline significantly to rates comparable to other women."
Simply more Black American women would have partners to raise their children with.
The more things change, the more they remain the same. If anything, race relations and the conditions that breed anger and violence--poverty, distrust of government, joblessness, incarceration, the proliferation of firearms and the heat of summer--are far-worse than they were 50 years ago. Until we address these deep injustices and intolerable conditions, we are doomed to repeat the past.
Excellent and thoughtful article.
For additional context, it should be remembered that violence continued through the 1967 Detroit riots, culminating in the 1968 riots in over 100 cities after the 1968 assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I would disagree that the 1965-68 riots were met only with rebuke and indifference. The Kerner Commussion report, issued in early 1968, starkly warned that the U.S. was devolving into two societies, separate and unequal. The unrest and the Kerner findings led to establishment of fair housing and urban redevelopment programs, the creation of Head Start, and a concerted federal effort to address unequal economic, housing and educational opportunities.
Unfortunately, the memories of the riots faded and public support for equal opportunities had largely faded by the time of Ronald Reagan's election in 1980. Since then, equal opportunity programs have shrunk, as has commitment to diminishing the gap between the white and black communities.
And so the cycle starts again.
For additional context, it should be remembered that violence continued through the 1967 Detroit riots, culminating in the 1968 riots in over 100 cities after the 1968 assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I would disagree that the 1965-68 riots were met only with rebuke and indifference. The Kerner Commussion report, issued in early 1968, starkly warned that the U.S. was devolving into two societies, separate and unequal. The unrest and the Kerner findings led to establishment of fair housing and urban redevelopment programs, the creation of Head Start, and a concerted federal effort to address unequal economic, housing and educational opportunities.
Unfortunately, the memories of the riots faded and public support for equal opportunities had largely faded by the time of Ronald Reagan's election in 1980. Since then, equal opportunity programs have shrunk, as has commitment to diminishing the gap between the white and black communities.
And so the cycle starts again.
14
Race riots are destructive, especially to blacks.
47
Okay, and? What is the point of the article? What is your point?
1
Not in aggregate. Here's a helpful link to the sacking of Tulsa's black neighborhood by white thugs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot
1
50 Years Later, We Still Haven’t Learned From Watts
We should have learned that race riots are destructive.
Get it now?
We should have learned that race riots are destructive.
Get it now?
1
Very good article. The question is: Why haven't we learned anything? Why do we collectively let and promote racism, segregation and discrimination? These are destructive to our national fabric and our moral being.
24
Because we are not a moral nation; we are a self-deceiving dishonest nation which rationalizes or ignores perpetual war, economic stratification, cultural and economic segregation. Our government talks a lot about "democracy and freedom" but it does so as a cover for a brutal reality imposed by behind-the-curtain rulers. Current Republican "thought" is bringing this bluntly into view.
3
Why do we not hold our leaders accountable and our ourselves? Why do we seek to blame rather than to understand and resolve issues? This is not the "other's" problem. This is our problem and the resolution must come from each of us. Decisions must be made from the fact that we are all Americans, we are all human beings and equal. A gentle reminder - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
2
We haven't learned anything because the public's eyes are diverted from the brazen larceny of banks and corporations by scapegoating and demonizing the "other" in American society: people of color, immigrants, and the poor.
2
Thank you for enlightening us with this much-needed essential and revelatory perspective, Prof. Theoharis.
8
Richard Wright also attempted to bring attention to Northern racism in his classic "Native Son". That was in 1940. Seventy-five years later we continue to fight the same battles. It would seem by now that racism is a prominent feature of American society and not some aberration.
There was a recent article concerning the Detroit riot of 1967 and how the country was shocked that Blacks were not happy with what Whites deemed good conditions. In the words of Gil Scott-Heron; "America was in shock; America leads the world in shocks!"
There was a recent article concerning the Detroit riot of 1967 and how the country was shocked that Blacks were not happy with what Whites deemed good conditions. In the words of Gil Scott-Heron; "America was in shock; America leads the world in shocks!"
79
Despite how hard the media tries to portray Michael Brown as an innocent teen who was unjustifiably gunned down by the police, the fact is that Mr. Brown attacked uniformed police officer, Darren Wilson. This case is not about civil rights, segregation, racial inequality, or black lives matter. Rather the shooting in Ferguson is about a lawless, full grown man, who picked a fight with the wrong cop.
This is in direct contrast to the incidents in Cleveland and North Charleston where the evidence suggests that these men were murdered by the police. It's inappropriate to draw parallels between Ferguson, and Watts, North Charleston, or Cleveland
This is in direct contrast to the incidents in Cleveland and North Charleston where the evidence suggests that these men were murdered by the police. It's inappropriate to draw parallels between Ferguson, and Watts, North Charleston, or Cleveland
162
I agree the parallels in the individuals killed is off; the parallels in how the black communities are under the yoke of institutionalized racism that runs from red-lining, economic restriction"trashs, lousy schools and right through the entire fabric of the society in which they live are the same. Those strangling circumstances produce thugs. White ones too - just live in a hard-core poor white neighborhood and you'll find the same thing. Poor "white trash" are pretty much like their black equivalents except in drug choice (meth).
1
This is a direct result of militarised police. Why was a 12 year veteran unable to take down a teenager (right word) without resorting to lethal force. Not only did he lose control of the situation but, according to the cop, allowed the teenager close enough to grab at his gun. It is very appropriate to compare Ferguson to Watts. Look at the militarised response of the police department before any violence, other than police violence, had occurred demonstrating pretty clearly the police there are an occupying force reaping what it had sowed.
4
Have to agree. The death of Michael Brown stands in contrast to the other tragedies we've witnessed since. It's clear that Brown was acting thuggishly that night, and it's very likely that he went after Officer Wilson. By the way, was the toxicology report on Brown ever made public?
On the other hand, the reporting since Brown's death has highlighted the fact that discrimination exists in Ferguson, and that it only adds to the distress of the African-American community there.
On the other hand, the reporting since Brown's death has highlighted the fact that discrimination exists in Ferguson, and that it only adds to the distress of the African-American community there.
So much has changed since Watts thankfully. More needs to done regarding social behavior among races White AND Black in order to succeed. There is no reason not to. However throwing billions of $$ at the black community has initially helped the black community with housing, education, food and special preferences and many have used the assistance to succeed climbing out of poverty through these initiatives. However there are no more billions and the community needs to follow their church and educational leaders to strengthen their families and find exceptional folks (there are many) for mentoring and develop a bootstrap mentality. Know that neighborhoods and people can blow up out of the frustration that they experience being held back or poor. But be aware that the same can and will happen by non-blacks who pay for programs and entitlements that are unsustainable. In NYC most black citizens are well past the Watts era of poverty and are strivers, but it's a slow road keeping one's head above water. 80% of the black population take charge of their lives and assistance supports their efforts, it's the 20% that live in the Watts mentality of yesterday but are fully fed, housed and clothed by you. Make a difference!
8
All the inequities mentioned in this piece create the "Thugs"
3
Institutionalized racism is the reality of America, and has been for hundreds of years. No surprise that with the cognitive dissonance of the right, they deny its existence.
"Thugs" and "outside agitators" become the scapegoats for unrest, although there is no credible evidence of their existence.
The polarization of our society continues apace, both geographically and ideologically. The country is inexorably descending into a fascist police state. The media machines that create the dialogue are increasingly tools of those that fund them with the extraordinary amounts of money now flooding the electoral system.
I empathize with those that seek violence as the only solution, historically it's the only action that yields any results.
"Thugs" and "outside agitators" become the scapegoats for unrest, although there is no credible evidence of their existence.
The polarization of our society continues apace, both geographically and ideologically. The country is inexorably descending into a fascist police state. The media machines that create the dialogue are increasingly tools of those that fund them with the extraordinary amounts of money now flooding the electoral system.
I empathize with those that seek violence as the only solution, historically it's the only action that yields any results.
13
Opinion columns of this kind and the ones by Charles Blow on racial conflict invariably elicit two varieties of response from readers. One group will endorse the view expressed here and hold whites responsible for social and racial problems in our nation. Other commenters will focus on the role of African Americans, arguing, for example, that police abuse of blacks causes far fewer deaths than intra-racial violence. Both arguments, in my opinion, capture part of the truth. But the greater responsibility attaches to the segment of society that enjoys more power. For many decades white-dominated governments and businesses have created and sustained a legal and economic structure that segregates and subordinates African Americans, while denying any intention of doing so. Despite sporadic efforts to dismantle this system, the advantages it confers on whites, coupled with fears of threats to their property, have conspired to hamper the creation of a racially just society. That some people trapped without much hope in de facto ghettos will lash out at the closest and most vulnerable targets (each other) should cause no surprise. The prevalence of gangs, which offer some sense of community and protection in a chaotic environment, seems entirely predictable. Mr. Blow and Professor Theoharis are trying to hold up a mirror to white America, and a great many of us do not like the reflection we see.
194
James, I get it. Where I'm lost is what am I to do about it? The problems are so huge and my voice so small. And now at 60 I'm too old to invest more energy in this.
3
Outstanding comment, James. Very insightful and deep -- esp coming from Arlington. (I grew up in Irving.)
[One comment though on writing "style" -- your ideas and thinking are tremendous, but the "density" of your written text may cause many to skip reading it. Breaking it into several paragraphs would help substantially in this regards, IMO.]
[One comment though on writing "style" -- your ideas and thinking are tremendous, but the "density" of your written text may cause many to skip reading it. Breaking it into several paragraphs would help substantially in this regards, IMO.]
2
Good points, George. It's a matter of hearts and minds--of the communities that cling to racist thinking. Pastors of white congregations shirk their duties and betray Christianity when they refuse to address the problem. Consider the number of televangelists who specialize in preaching wealth.
3
And who is the "we?" As in "We still haven't learned."
Personally I think someone has not learned to follow the laws of the land.
Personally I think someone has not learned to follow the laws of the land.
39
Is that the "law of the land" which says to profit from those less fortunate?
"Laws of the land" are based on social conventions. Social conventions are based on power.
"Laws of the land" are based on social conventions. Social conventions are based on power.
2
I'm thinking you must mean the Ferguson police, yes?
"...another officer is facing a civil rights lawsuit after allegedly choking and hog-tying a 12-year-old boy standing in his own front yard."
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/ferguson-police-accused-of-...
"...another officer is facing a civil rights lawsuit after allegedly choking and hog-tying a 12-year-old boy standing in his own front yard."
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/ferguson-police-accused-of-...
2
The tea party?
If I contemplate the current state of race relations in the U.S., I do feel a glimmer of hope in knowing that the people (most blacks and many forward thinking whites) are beginning to hold government accountable for the pervasive injustices that still exist in our culture. Yes, we have a long way to go to rectify this predicament, but I do have a sense that things can get better if we acknowledge reality and recognize that we have to work together to make things better for all races.
One thing that's become abundantly clear is that it's increasingly difficult for whites to continue living in a fantasy world in which we rationalize prejudice and injustice perpetrated by institutions of industry and government on our behalf. Police officers who routinely commit crimes against black citizens do so because they have come to believe they won't be held accountable for their actions -- and history confirms that they haven't been for decades -- but the tide has turned and police departments are now getting the message that "the people" are watching and demanding reform.
It's important to remember that illegal conduct by police is merely a reflection of what society tolerates , and when officers get the message that systemic injustice is no longer be acceptable they will adjust accordingly. That message needs to come from mayors, governors, and legislatures in every region of our nation. When our leaders initiate reform we will see progress. Until then we're just whistling Dixie.
One thing that's become abundantly clear is that it's increasingly difficult for whites to continue living in a fantasy world in which we rationalize prejudice and injustice perpetrated by institutions of industry and government on our behalf. Police officers who routinely commit crimes against black citizens do so because they have come to believe they won't be held accountable for their actions -- and history confirms that they haven't been for decades -- but the tide has turned and police departments are now getting the message that "the people" are watching and demanding reform.
It's important to remember that illegal conduct by police is merely a reflection of what society tolerates , and when officers get the message that systemic injustice is no longer be acceptable they will adjust accordingly. That message needs to come from mayors, governors, and legislatures in every region of our nation. When our leaders initiate reform we will see progress. Until then we're just whistling Dixie.
And if the GOP – including their 5 on the USSC – have anything to say about it, we'll never learn. Because when we do, goodby GOP, and their billionaire owners will have to find other issues to divide & conquer us.
19
When Bernie Sanders was prevented from speaking, and his excessive tolerance towards those who prevented him from speaking, that event created lots of votes for the Republicans. I don't much care for the Republicans, but they are not always wrong.
And let us face facts, lots of non-billionaires vote Republican. Until you ask why and do not answer "because they are fools" you will be able to address this issue.
And let us face facts, lots of non-billionaires vote Republican. Until you ask why and do not answer "because they are fools" you will be able to address this issue.
9
What is happening now is the spotlight is once again shining on the racial inequalities and racism in this country that has never gone away. As I have said before, Jim Crow went from being overt to being covert after the Civil rights laws were passed.
This has only become public since the beating of Rodney King in CA was captured on video. I saw the demonetization of Rev. Wright by the media and a lot of whites at his commentary on the mistreatment of African Americas in the US. I saw the outrage by a large number of whites and the media on the police mistreatment of Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates in his own home. Unfortunately people do not want to believe this is happening in America.
This has only become public since the beating of Rodney King in CA was captured on video. I saw the demonetization of Rev. Wright by the media and a lot of whites at his commentary on the mistreatment of African Americas in the US. I saw the outrage by a large number of whites and the media on the police mistreatment of Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates in his own home. Unfortunately people do not want to believe this is happening in America.
21
Oh look, the NYT is playing the apologist. (Yawn.)
54
The author correctly points out that racism is a national, not a southern, phenomenon. The Civil War was fought primarily to save the Union, not to free the slaves, who were soon forgotten after Reconstruction in the interest of sectional reconciliation. We since have seen as much racism in the North (following the Great MIgration of blacks northwards) as in the South. We still struggle to overcome the challenge of racism...a struggle now made more difficult by the creation--through decades pf oppression--of a socially dysfunctional black underclass plagued by drugs, guns, and illegitimacy and resistant to social programs of "betterment." When will this ever end? Will the US forever suffer the burden of its Original Sin of slavery?
17
I get it - as a white guy, I'm obviously racist. I pose the question - what exactly is it that you want from me? If I promise never to say that All Lives Matter, can I please go about my business?
88
For starters, how about abandoning the sarcasm of your comment and adopting some compassion? That goes for those who have clicked on recommend, too.
27
Me too. I will never say All Lives Matter. Count me in too.
7
As another white guy I'll answer you what "exactly" is it that is asked of us: first, stop invoking ideas like "follow the laws" and "don't blame us (white people) or the system" and all the other knee-jerk disliking reactions every time someone complains about how whites are responsible; and second, now that you've agreed to shut up and listen to something besides the fully-formed ideas already inside your closed mind, commit to listening and understanding and understand that this will take a long, long time. I know this because I know that there is no easy answer (if there were we would have collectively realized what it is) and because we've had decades of trying all kinds of government-proposed solutions that have not worked. Third, look to the example of those churchgoers in South Carolina who instantly forgave the young man who killed their minister a few weeks ago, yes, look within your heart and mind and let go of whatever you don't like or cannot forgive. When ALMOST EVERYBODY including YOU commits to the idea that "We Shall Overcome, no matter what" then perhaps in a generation we might finally see how we are putting racism behind us. A suggested starting point is to use the words "we" instead of "you" or "they".
60
In what ways has either side, or the situation, progressed? In 1965, a movement to improve the situation in Watts results in this:
"The unrest escalated to looting and burning. In response, the police cracked down on the black community at large. When the violence ended a week later, 34 people had died and more than a thousand were injured, a vast majority at the hands of local police or the National Guard."
Is it true that, a half-century later, the same situation prevails, to wit:
"A similar framing exists today. While recent uprisings in Ferguson, Cleveland and Baltimore have prompted extensive reporting on injustice in law enforcement, municipal policy and the courts, few stories have focused on the groups and people in these cities that have been highlighting these problems for years."
Is it true that the same leadership activity leads to the same outcomes, the same self-immolation, where the residents burn their own property, and the same violence within the group -- for example the spike in Baltimore murders and the gunfight(s) in Ferguson -- that are occurring right now?
What social changes will lead to a different story fifty years from now, and do we see them occurring? Or can the Times simply reprint this article then?
"The unrest escalated to looting and burning. In response, the police cracked down on the black community at large. When the violence ended a week later, 34 people had died and more than a thousand were injured, a vast majority at the hands of local police or the National Guard."
Is it true that, a half-century later, the same situation prevails, to wit:
"A similar framing exists today. While recent uprisings in Ferguson, Cleveland and Baltimore have prompted extensive reporting on injustice in law enforcement, municipal policy and the courts, few stories have focused on the groups and people in these cities that have been highlighting these problems for years."
Is it true that the same leadership activity leads to the same outcomes, the same self-immolation, where the residents burn their own property, and the same violence within the group -- for example the spike in Baltimore murders and the gunfight(s) in Ferguson -- that are occurring right now?
What social changes will lead to a different story fifty years from now, and do we see them occurring? Or can the Times simply reprint this article then?
23
larger social responsibilities exist for whites and blacks alike. For whites effecting substantive change is the charge. For blacks committed and effective efforts to eliminate the disasterous street culture of violence and drugs and the anti-education bias it teaches some young people are needed. Neither group has covered themselves with glory.
18
In the neighborhoods of west Chicago, 6% of residents account for 80% of murders there (at a far lower rater than 20 years ago). These are men between the ages of 15-25. Groups like Cease Fire have done wonders to lower this rate and are active everywhere in the city (they marched down my little street in Humboldt Park many times). In spite of, limited public transportation, no retail, no jobs, people keep going.
On the other side of town former Det. John Burge finally went to prison in a case related to his torture of 200 African American men to get their false confessions.
Who has the power here? Who's fighting for justice without much?
On the other side of town former Det. John Burge finally went to prison in a case related to his torture of 200 African American men to get their false confessions.
Who has the power here? Who's fighting for justice without much?
2
For one thing we have a black President in his 7th year in office. Looks to me that he has done a good job of addressing black issues. These riots are a smear at him and I do not appreciate it in the least.
17
It's racial, and it is also economic apartheid. Bernie Sanders has it right about how to fix this problem. Reduce the income inequality problem, and bring opportunity TO these neighborhoods, instead of cordaning them off. Many of these neighborhoods are islands with little public transportation, shopping, industry or trees and parks. Steny Hoyer leads a "Make in America"but investment needs to come by government first, to entice industry to these areas as a basis for economic health. Meanwhile, the world whizz's by old style corporate industry and is moving on to 3D printers and free software. I listened to some of their hearings..they might be on to something. But first, we need to buld the infrastructure, not just in these ghettos but in the entire country, of renewable energy, transportation and communication. The movement is all too slow. We need public investment and we need it now.
79
Billions of dollars spent on mismanaged welfare programs since the Johnson administration have resulted in generations of people with no incentive to work since benefits are deemed entitlements. Welfare was originally designed to help people get back on their feet but has since become institutionalized in many communities. Sanders assumes that everyone is willing to work, desperately wants to work to be able to pay their own way. Human nature being what it is proves otherwise
5
"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. cast the surprise of public officials as dishonest."
Key political figures and police knew exactly what was really happening. They refused to pay the political price of telling the truth. So they lied.
However, then and today there is not one "all whites" any more than there is one "all blacks" when considering what people think and feel. There is both Bernie Sanders and troglodytes on the other side, just as there is both Barack Obama and Clarence Thomas.
The leaders then feared telling the truth. Many of those who knew the truth did not want it admitted, but many more did not understand the truth, and would be shocked and upset. "Blame the messenger" means in politics "don't be the messenger." Those were two very different reasons for a politician to lie.
We have that same two part problem today. Some whites know,and don't want this to be admitted. Some whites really don't know.
I know, but my mother doesn't know. She really believes the Civil Rights Movement she supported fixed things. Many think that. They were told that. They wanted to believe it. They did, and liked believing it. It was good politics for the messenger with good news.
More blacks today are among those political liars hiding the truth. In Baltimore, the black prosecutor certainly knew, she'd been a deputy in that office for years. She told it instead as a single bad apple. Likewise her black mayor.
It is no longer just the white power structure telling those lies.
Key political figures and police knew exactly what was really happening. They refused to pay the political price of telling the truth. So they lied.
However, then and today there is not one "all whites" any more than there is one "all blacks" when considering what people think and feel. There is both Bernie Sanders and troglodytes on the other side, just as there is both Barack Obama and Clarence Thomas.
The leaders then feared telling the truth. Many of those who knew the truth did not want it admitted, but many more did not understand the truth, and would be shocked and upset. "Blame the messenger" means in politics "don't be the messenger." Those were two very different reasons for a politician to lie.
We have that same two part problem today. Some whites know,and don't want this to be admitted. Some whites really don't know.
I know, but my mother doesn't know. She really believes the Civil Rights Movement she supported fixed things. Many think that. They were told that. They wanted to believe it. They did, and liked believing it. It was good politics for the messenger with good news.
More blacks today are among those political liars hiding the truth. In Baltimore, the black prosecutor certainly knew, she'd been a deputy in that office for years. She told it instead as a single bad apple. Likewise her black mayor.
It is no longer just the white power structure telling those lies.
105
Yes, there is a systemic problem that should be acknowledged and corrected. But it is unfair to condemn the public statements of local officials, both black and white, who are charged with restoring safety in the wake of unrest.
Your larger point-- that systemic inequality should be rooted out-- is correct.
Your larger point-- that systemic inequality should be rooted out-- is correct.
1
The black mayor of Baltimore's bad apple approach ignored the city's reaction to an unjust criminal justice system and made the situation there far worse. She should be recalled.
Mark,
Prior to the first riot Watts was a working class community, while a majority of the residents were black there were a number of others who lived and worked there, Including myself.
I grew up and attended school on the edge of Watts. I was working a few blocks from the spot where the riots broke out that day. I worked there several years prior to that day as well. The area was generally safe and well policed. If there were "abuses" of authority they were not evident while driving the streets.
Watts was a "causality" of the civil rights struggle elsewhere. Today it is likely that a majority of the residents in Watts are Hispanic in origin. The area is reminiscent of poor cities throughout the third world even though large amounts of money were spent over the decades to change things. There was a second Riot as a result of the Rodney King trial, after which everything was set back to square one.
Government was generally ineffective in changing things for the better even though vast sums were spent there. I think that the change in demographics will ultimately do more to restore the area than all of the failed Government programs. Perhaps that is the "Lesson" of Watts!
Prior to the first riot Watts was a working class community, while a majority of the residents were black there were a number of others who lived and worked there, Including myself.
I grew up and attended school on the edge of Watts. I was working a few blocks from the spot where the riots broke out that day. I worked there several years prior to that day as well. The area was generally safe and well policed. If there were "abuses" of authority they were not evident while driving the streets.
Watts was a "causality" of the civil rights struggle elsewhere. Today it is likely that a majority of the residents in Watts are Hispanic in origin. The area is reminiscent of poor cities throughout the third world even though large amounts of money were spent over the decades to change things. There was a second Riot as a result of the Rodney King trial, after which everything was set back to square one.
Government was generally ineffective in changing things for the better even though vast sums were spent there. I think that the change in demographics will ultimately do more to restore the area than all of the failed Government programs. Perhaps that is the "Lesson" of Watts!
1