Self-centered, hedonistic, single mom completely neglects teen daughter in addition to being the worst role model ever. Teen daughter is so lonely, starving for attention and literally feels ugly and unlovable. There is one adult male in her universe. One night his hand accidentally grazes her breast. She eagerly welcomes this "attention" and begins to fantasize, hope and plan for more. It snowballs from that point. Another reviewer called Minnie "manipulative". I didn't get that. She was quite innocent given her circumstance in addition to raging hormones. Monroe seemed kind of "slow" and juvenile. I didn't see him as a "predator" per se. Mom was the criminal here.
Pedophilia by any other name smells like pedophilia. Child porn by any other name smells like child porn. Erudite, free-thinking, New Millenial movie goers have the right to ignore dictionary definitions. But they cannot rewrite them.
3
Did you even see the film?
3
Not known if he saw the film, but we know he knows no teen aged girls or women who used to be teen aged girls. And Midwestern girls are the same as San. Fran girls.
2
Sorry, I know Hollywood likes to think of itself as so much more enlightened about sex than stogy old mid-America, but when 30 year old men seduce 15 year old girls it's statutory rape. When Hollywood can't tell the difference between a sexual fantasy and an improper and unlawful sexual act, it's the reviewers job to do so.
There are plenty of scripts that do quite well with the very realistic sexual fantasy that older men have for teen girls and vice versa. But as the actual novel points out, taking that fantasy to the next step is rape.
How many young women's lives have been ruined by men who think of themselves as imitating art? Hollywood loves to pretend that its sexual fantasies are just fine, after all, it's only a movie even when they portray rape and abuse. After all, it's just a movie.
But it's a bad movie when it turns fantasy into a denial of the reality of so many young women and a rationale for the men that take advantage of them and its a bad review that fails to recognize this.
There are plenty of scripts that do quite well with the very realistic sexual fantasy that older men have for teen girls and vice versa. But as the actual novel points out, taking that fantasy to the next step is rape.
How many young women's lives have been ruined by men who think of themselves as imitating art? Hollywood loves to pretend that its sexual fantasies are just fine, after all, it's only a movie even when they portray rape and abuse. After all, it's just a movie.
But it's a bad movie when it turns fantasy into a denial of the reality of so many young women and a rationale for the men that take advantage of them and its a bad review that fails to recognize this.
1
One of the many sad things about our upside culture is that when a 15-year (boy) grabs a gun and starts shooting up those around us there's no moral hesitation to view him and try him as fully culpable adult. However, when a 15 or 16 year old has sex with someone older there's no possible way that someone so young and innocent could fully understand his or her decision. What a hypocritical place we live in.
3
This is not rape ~ the teenage girl seduced the man...though it is true he should have demurred - when i was that age i had so many sexual fantasies about the 35 yolds on my world - and i wheedled and tried to be taught the joys of sex by them..no one took me up on it - luckily i guess - but a man stalking and pressuring a teenage girl into sex is quite different than this . Fantastic portrayal of my young sexuality~ even though i did not get to bring it to life .
7
I think the light spin of the film is very problematic. This is disturbing material misread or swept under the rug or ironed out in an "indie" movie kind of way (not quite Hollywood). The girl is a 15 year old girl, she is not a 21 year old young woman. The book (and the life experience) is much more disturbing and the experience was jarring and disturbing for the author too. Below an interview with Phoebe Gloeckner. I saw the film and found disturbing is kind of sweet spin on a very tough sexual and drug experience, in a very disturbing relation to her mother (whom she called abusive) and just a very hard moment in her young and fragile life. Movie goers "enjoying" the movie and cheering for her because she "owned" her sexuality and choices do not want to see what is in there.
http://therumpus.net/2015/08/the-saturday-rumpus-interview-phoebe-gloeck...
http://therumpus.net/2015/08/the-saturday-rumpus-interview-phoebe-gloeck...
6
You have to take the movie on its own terms. It exists as a story and work of art independently from the book. And they both exist independently from the author's actual life, as she herself states clearly.
And most importantly, one can both own one's sexuality (even at 15), and be hurt by the consequences of it. That is life, and the one doesn't contradict the other. Right now the society is very focused on victimization-on assigning victim status to women in all kinds of situations, such as Lori Mattox (who willingly and happily lost her virginity to David Bowie in the 70s). No one seems to care how Lori herself feels about the things she did--they even get angry when she insists she wasn't a victim. But the victim label is soundly rejected by many of us, even those to whom terrible things happened, because we will not be disempowered like that. Minnie--in this movie--is not a victim of anything, and that's important. Being hurt by life isn't the same thing as being a victim. Some of us consider pain to be the thing that made us strong.
I loved the film. It was incredibly well-written, directed, and the performances were excellent. Minnie charted her own course, as I did at that age, and counts the bruises as proud battle scars.
And most importantly, one can both own one's sexuality (even at 15), and be hurt by the consequences of it. That is life, and the one doesn't contradict the other. Right now the society is very focused on victimization-on assigning victim status to women in all kinds of situations, such as Lori Mattox (who willingly and happily lost her virginity to David Bowie in the 70s). No one seems to care how Lori herself feels about the things she did--they even get angry when she insists she wasn't a victim. But the victim label is soundly rejected by many of us, even those to whom terrible things happened, because we will not be disempowered like that. Minnie--in this movie--is not a victim of anything, and that's important. Being hurt by life isn't the same thing as being a victim. Some of us consider pain to be the thing that made us strong.
I loved the film. It was incredibly well-written, directed, and the performances were excellent. Minnie charted her own course, as I did at that age, and counts the bruises as proud battle scars.
4
The movie reflects our culture as it is now groping for a new sexual ethos in the wake of the Victorian culture that took over a hundred years to abandon and leave no clear ethos behind. You can see it in the arc of action: adolescent wants sex, has evolved to want sex and mate. The shattered cultural ethos offers no guidance from parents, friends, society except uninhibited sexual licence. The more Minnie gets of that, the more disgusted with herself and fearful of other she becomes. Eventually she learns, matures, and finds her deeper self.
My friends and I were discussing whether Monroe is a creep or an opportunist. Either way, I like the movie.
Left this film halfway through. It really made me queasy. Could not stomach the Crumb comics so obviously this was not a film for me. Would have appreciated some info as to what I was getting into. Will say that this film had the same atmosphere of those Crumb comics and I think it was a successful film on its own terms.
1
How did you last that long?
Those critical of the sexual activity of a 15 year old girl don't seem to be aware that the movie is based on an autobiographic graphic novel written 25 years later by the protagonist who was healthy enough to write about it after all those years of reflection and appears to have had it together pretty well at the end of the film
8
Let the scolds decide how her life turned out,. She is not as good a judge as they are.
1
Does anyone else see the irony of this movie being released at the same time as the whole Jared Fogle Subway sandwich sex scandal. He was having sex with 16 year olds and the media portrays him as a monster yet this movie comes out and it is a girls sexual freedom. I say to each his own as long as no one is getting hurt but both party's take responsibility for their actions.
1
Outstanding movie, particularly Bel Powley. Refreshing to see a young woman portrayed as a real person, not a barbie doll. Thank you for this excellent review, which led to my seeing this excellent film tonight. For those who haven't seen it, there is a meaningful allusion to Minnie's craving for physical affection from her mother who denied it on bad advice.
8
I had two friends who told me they lost their virginity to older men when they were 15 (I did not know them when this happened), and this was the mid-1980's. It was mutual consent, and they were not traumatized by the experience. But personally, I think kids should stay kids and that there is no rush for this kind of experience when one is 15. On the other hand. I still want to see this film, and if movies can glorify adolescent boys loosing heir virginity, why can't films depict girls taking charge of their own sexuality as well?
11
In other cultures 13year olds marry. Evolution has set the stage with our body chemistry. Our culture tries to hold back what eons of evolution and nature has set up. Romeo and Juliet were kids. Everyday across this planet parents arrange marriage for kids.
Why is it so difficult for a director stay true to the writer's vision?
The 70's were the last decade of personal freedom before the nanny state stepped in. Yes, teens actually had more maturity then since they were not surrounded by helicopter moms and and propagandized that there was a molester hiding in every shadow. Somehow in spite of that, there were no school shootings and suicide was not a leading cause of death for teens.
11
The misspelled subtitle of the photo in the article makes a better title for the film: "The Diary of a Teenage Gril" just sounds more...subversive?
Curious that a comment of mine was censured. Let me try again. I'm surprised that all the controversy and scandal in the public's reaction is about the age gap between "predator" and "girl-victim". But I see no comment about the issue of girl/mom rivalry over same sexual partner. What kind of disavowed drama is going on here between the "girls"? The point can even be pushed in yet another direction--isn't this a bit an acting out of "incestuous" desires? Not oedipal, because in oedipal dramas it is the boy who sleeps with his mom, rather is this an Electra complex enactment?
2
The idea that young girls are not interested in sex and are talked into it by older men is, for the most part, ludicrous.
I well recall my mid-teen years and the behavior of 'underage' (whatever that is supposed to mean) girls. They were often the sexual aggressors, and more than once I was taken aback by such behavior.
I well recall my mid-teen years and the behavior of 'underage' (whatever that is supposed to mean) girls. They were often the sexual aggressors, and more than once I was taken aback by such behavior.
2
like several of the folks posting comments, i also grew up in san francisco during this time...and it was a different era with a value system that wasn't the same as the one today. sex between minors and adults did take place sometimes...and sometimes the minors initiated that sex. i know this because i had a group of friends (middle and upper class kids) who charged money for sex in the city's tenderloin district...for the thrill of it...and because they could. i feel i know this girl; not because my life was hers but because i did have peers with similar lives. i'm actually looking forward to seeing this film.
13
Try #2- I want to see this film, because I was a teenager about the time set in the book. I lived in a small town, but most of hte teenage girls were sexually active, and many with older men. Some of the men were teachers,or worked in local stores, some were would-be actors,authors,musicians, and more that a few were aspiring militants. The girls did not regard themselves as victims, a few went on to marry the older men. The only girls in my town who suffered were those who got pregnant from boys their own age. It was a different time for sure.
22
Hey!
This is only a movie.
It's not meant to be a prescriptive.
Watch or don't watch it.
End of story.
This is only a movie.
It's not meant to be a prescriptive.
Watch or don't watch it.
End of story.
14
Where are the protests by the leaders and the millions of members of the women's movement leaders of the United States and Canada, about women movie script writers and movie producers creating yet another demonstration of the sexploitation, for profit, of a presumed 15-year old girl, presumably still a virgin, by a male predator twice of her? Where is their feeling of shame for the publicizing, for profit, of the erotic dreams of an adolescent girl, and calling it "a Hormone Waiting to Explode"? Where is the feeling of shasme by a 2o-year old actress, to wish to show herself in the nude, pretending to be a 15-year old girl, knowing that sex (real or imagined) with a 15-year old is considered statutory rape?
8
Are you for or against the portrayal?
5
Adalbert, are you really in Montreal or at your home in the Arctic?
4
Yes, Adalbert, you are correct. If this film had been made by a man it would have ever been released.
The usual monstrous hypocrisy.
The usual monstrous hypocrisy.
1
Funny how the comments bordering on hysteria about a girls sexuality totally miss the point.
It's about owning ones sexuality (oh dear!) and understanding it and until that time (as this movie illustrates) there's potential for missteps. It's called LIFE.
So many girls get taken advantage of because they have moms and grandmas wanting to believe at age 15 a girls is thinking about everything except sex. Sad. Our culture lis so repressed that's why we see so much sex everywhere except where it belongs. Calvinism is what this county's morals were built on so we have Scolds everywhere (like here) telling us what is bad even if it's normal!
It's about owning ones sexuality (oh dear!) and understanding it and until that time (as this movie illustrates) there's potential for missteps. It's called LIFE.
So many girls get taken advantage of because they have moms and grandmas wanting to believe at age 15 a girls is thinking about everything except sex. Sad. Our culture lis so repressed that's why we see so much sex everywhere except where it belongs. Calvinism is what this county's morals were built on so we have Scolds everywhere (like here) telling us what is bad even if it's normal!
42
Touche'. All of the girls I attended private co-ed high school with were more than sexually adventurous and quite fun to be around. Our society is so repressed and Victorian in its mores regarding sex, but when it comes to violence and harsh judgment for living one's life, watch out, because the same hypocrites will come down on you like the wrath.
18
Much appreciated, D.
5
Owning one's sexuality at 15 with a 30 year old? Yeah, sounds like every male's fantasy lived out to me. God, we have to fight this illusion every day. We have to work hard to convince grown men that 15 year olds do not want to sleep with them. Most men probably think they do and this film confirms it. What a drag.
8
As America heads back to its obsession with puritanism and all things politically correct, it sounds like refreshing reality. As one of the commentors says, there are bad experiences to be had via the internet, but we use bad experiences to install fear rather than to understand Life which the PC authorities say should all be birthday cake and roses. The post-puberty hormone rush doesn't get put down by political correctness. It is tamed by what we're sadly missing: parents who can say "No," families that stay where the kin exist so wise aunts and uncles can give them counsel, and an educational system where teachers are also trusted friends. Children must be taught to understand, to think for themselves. In most countries, at 15 a child is a young adult, not a cute, but mindless child.
When the parents are children their children never grow up.
Sounds like an interesting film.
When the parents are children their children never grow up.
Sounds like an interesting film.
17
Women never really own their sexuality. Perhaps if she were lusting after Justin Bieber in this movie the character's sexuality would be more acceptable to the audience.
6
I wish some of the people who call teenage girls Lolita would actually read the book. I could barely get through it. It is about the destruction of a human being's soul.
10
When you grow up you should try again. It's one of the beautiful books of English literature.
1
Both can be true.
4
I really don't know what to say about this movie that I saw a few days ago. I lived in San Francisco at that time and there were tons of runaways who were Minnie's age doing all kinds of drugs, sex, and getting into worse jams. But Minnie lives with her mother not a group of hippies and the irresponsible situation is appalling. Although Monroe isn't a "rapist" he's a weak spineless easygoing almost likable character with no moral core. Minnie may be 15 but she's definitely manipulative and "advanced" for her age. The film makes one queasy but the acting is superb. The ending neatly wraps up all the problems too easily. It's worth seeing but leaves you with a disturbed feeling afterwards.
35
I agree. I found the movie very unsettling. In its approach to this subject matter (15--16 year-old girl having an affair with a much older man), it reminded me of Woody Allen's "Manhattan."
2
Sorry, she's not all girls. She's solely a product of a neglectful, drugged parent.
And the only word for Monroe is "pedophile".
Talk about blaming the victim. Having crushes and sexual thoughts as a child is not the same as embarking consciously into a sexual relationship. It's like trying to explain that a person with an IQ of 50 can consent to sex because they have sexual thoughts.
And the only word for Monroe is "pedophile".
Talk about blaming the victim. Having crushes and sexual thoughts as a child is not the same as embarking consciously into a sexual relationship. It's like trying to explain that a person with an IQ of 50 can consent to sex because they have sexual thoughts.
10
Ooph!
I know more than a few sexually active teenage women who wouldn't take kindly to being compared to a person with an IQ of 50. Why must everyone describe women as incapable of thinking for themselves ?
This kind of 'defense' of women seems more of a back-handed insult.
I know more than a few sexually active teenage women who wouldn't take kindly to being compared to a person with an IQ of 50. Why must everyone describe women as incapable of thinking for themselves ?
This kind of 'defense' of women seems more of a back-handed insult.
16
why?
1
NM: You're reading an awful lot into CharlesLynn's word "know". Maybe too much.
1
Is this movie (and this review!) going to discourage or encourage pedophilia? I fear the latter. For the sake of my 15 year-old granddaughter, I wish such films did not exist.
5
Its not about you Grandpa, it's about the lives and realities of the evolution of a teenage girl. Bo Powley says it best herself, "What we're trying to prove with this film is that society is scared of teenage girls having sex. It's a bit of vicious cycle: we're scared of it so we don't talk about it and we don't talk about it because we're scared of it. I really want young women to see this movie and see a normal un-Hollywoodized body on screen and also have sexual thoughts and sexual feelings for them normalized so they don't feel like freaks when they feel like the want to have sex."
13
wspackman:
Sir, and no doubt you are male, no one thinks it is abnormal for a teenage girl to want to have sex with a teenage boy.
The issue is that he is her father's age, which is creepy, although most of the male commenters think it is just fine.
Best hope that if you have a daughter, she does not run into that kind of man but, if she does, it appears many fathers would be fine with it.
Sir, and no doubt you are male, no one thinks it is abnormal for a teenage girl to want to have sex with a teenage boy.
The issue is that he is her father's age, which is creepy, although most of the male commenters think it is just fine.
Best hope that if you have a daughter, she does not run into that kind of man but, if she does, it appears many fathers would be fine with it.
**Spoiler Alert***
NM:
The FACT is, Monroe, Mom's boyfriend, is twice Minnie's age chronologically. However, he's emotionally just a few years ahead of her when the affair starts. By the end of the movie when she's sitting on the beach wall selling her drawings and he jogs by, she says to herself, "I'm better than you." By then it's Minnie who's matured past him.
NM:
The FACT is, Monroe, Mom's boyfriend, is twice Minnie's age chronologically. However, he's emotionally just a few years ahead of her when the affair starts. By the end of the movie when she's sitting on the beach wall selling her drawings and he jogs by, she says to herself, "I'm better than you." By then it's Minnie who's matured past him.
3
The title of this movie should be Lolita II
9
This entire article reads like child rape apologism. He's not the villain and she's not the victim because she lusts after him, a man more than twice her age while she hasn't attained the age of majority? He can't be called a predator? A fifteen year old girl being repeatedly sexually assaulted by her mother's boyfriend is said to be "having an affair" with him in the caption? This is rape, NYT. This is sexual assault. The minimizing of this in pop culture is exactly why young girls are afraid to speak out about incidents like this impacting them. This exact kind of narrative is why I didn't know how to give voice to what happened to me when I was 15 and exploited by internet predators. This is rape culture. This hurts girls and women. Shame on you.
65
Ms. Dargis may be guilty of a lot of things and like any critic (even you and me) she can be mistaken, but being an apologist for rape, child or otherwise, is not one of them, Haven't you been reading her over the years? In this review she is presenting the young girl as she is portrayed in the movie. As I understand it, Minnie is in charge of her own life or at least rapidly moving toward doing so. That seems to be what Dargis is celebrating. Am I saying that rape is good? No! Nor does the review.
39
How kafkaesquely ironic. "Nobody" says, without even seeing the movie, or hearing what they have to say, this must be rape. That a 15 year old could have sexual agency over her own body cannot be possible. Or, even if it were possible, it must, must, must not be allowed. Sexual negativity must be start early and be particularly and vigourously enforced during the adolescent years. Sex is risky, dangerous; not to be engaged with except under very specific conditions, with age, despite what your body may be telling you, being the most critical. So they say, Nobody knows.....
27
Dear god, a "child rape apologism?" Nobody, if you are anybody, then you must be out of your non-anonymous mind to decry a film that's well done for promoting an agenda which it isn't. However, I'm sorry to hear about your victimization by Internet predators.
10
Actually, no matter if a movie is written and directed by a man or a woman, I am done with movies that have female leads who are 15 years or more younger than the male lead.
It does not matter if the man is 30 and the woman (girl) is 15 or the man is 50 and the woman is 30, although more often it is a 65 year old man and a 25 year old woman. I am tired of seeing it and boycott any movie or television show that uses this cliché. (I am doing the same to the 'fat unattractive loser wins the heart of slim gorgeous winner.)
This is flat out indoctrination of all women from the time they are young. They are shown this male fantasy over and over again in almost every movie and television show, until they accept it as the norm. The then deny what their own sexuality is telling them, which is that they are *not* attracted to men their father's and even grandfather's age, but are attracted to men their own age. (That men are also indoctrinated to believe this fantasy has led to a lot of single older non-millionaire men, still waiting for their hot young model.)
That women themselves contribute to this creepy brainwashing is beyond sickening and depressing.
It not 'The Patriarchy' that holds women back, it is women themselves.
It does not matter if the man is 30 and the woman (girl) is 15 or the man is 50 and the woman is 30, although more often it is a 65 year old man and a 25 year old woman. I am tired of seeing it and boycott any movie or television show that uses this cliché. (I am doing the same to the 'fat unattractive loser wins the heart of slim gorgeous winner.)
This is flat out indoctrination of all women from the time they are young. They are shown this male fantasy over and over again in almost every movie and television show, until they accept it as the norm. The then deny what their own sexuality is telling them, which is that they are *not* attracted to men their father's and even grandfather's age, but are attracted to men their own age. (That men are also indoctrinated to believe this fantasy has led to a lot of single older non-millionaire men, still waiting for their hot young model.)
That women themselves contribute to this creepy brainwashing is beyond sickening and depressing.
It not 'The Patriarchy' that holds women back, it is women themselves.
65
Why hold women to a higher standard? We share the same culture as everyone else. The patriarchy is the air that we breathe. We internalise it. It hurts all of us.
1
Apparently this movie and the book that inspired it are based on the real life experiences of the female author. It would be difficult to dismiss this accurately as nothing more than a "male fantasy." Briefly scanning the average age at first marriage in countries throughout the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_at_first_marriage) it would appear that men are 2-7 years older than women at the time of marriage in essentially every country in the world. Something about this seems to appeal to both men and women. It is hard for me to understand this as purely a creepy plot.
9
That reminds me of the 2008 film "The Reader", described as a romantic drama, in which 15-year-old Michael (David Kross) is seduced by 36-year-old Hanna (Kate Winslet) and they have an affair. For some reason there was no outrage at the continual rape of this boy by a woman more than twice his age. Kate Winslet did win an Oscar though.
25
This article called "Review: In ‘The Diary of a Teenage Girl,’ a Hormone Bomb Waiting to Explode" interetsed me this week because it's just so relatable to some teens and it is a movie and I love those, so I can't wait to see this one on Friday. At one part the girl is naked and has like rape, drugs and alchohol all this bad stuff in it.. but I'd probably see it with my mom anyways so I am good.
10
Is this an ironic comment? It comes off as tongue in cheek and very funny. The wonders humor can perform. Right on target.
1
I hope this is supposed to be funny.
5
Great use of that San Francisco treasure The Magazine as depicted in that still where Minnie is buying her copy of Twisted Sisters (a real comic book, by the way)! Nice to see some verisimilitude, as that terrific store has actually been around since 1972! Can't wait to see this film!
10