Ok, one more South Florida cop story and I will quit. They're like potato chips.
I got pulled over by one of those motorcycle cops for an expired plate. By two day. I was unaware and new in town, so out of state plate too. He came and tole me what was wrong and then I saw him fooling around at the back of my car. I got out to see what was the matter. He foamed at the mouth. He had a screw driver in his hand and was removing the plate.
When I asked for an explanation for his action, he frothed some more and told me that it was a misdemeanor and he could take me in. I gave him a withering glance and asked him where he planned to put me, on the back of his bike? He went on his way.
I got to work and was written up for being late. Three times and you're fired. On the way home that night, a real cop pulled me over. I'm had no license plate. He feared a stolen car. He was shocked. I burst into tears and he went to his car hunting for something to dry my tears. He came up empty. As my face dissolved into a puddle, he tried to make sense of what had happened. He asked for a description of the cops uniform. I couldn't say.
The next day he called me to offer to take me to the dmv to straighten out the mess. Two sides of a flipped coin, literally good cop/bad cop.
How do we get rid of the bad cops?
I got pulled over by one of those motorcycle cops for an expired plate. By two day. I was unaware and new in town, so out of state plate too. He came and tole me what was wrong and then I saw him fooling around at the back of my car. I got out to see what was the matter. He foamed at the mouth. He had a screw driver in his hand and was removing the plate.
When I asked for an explanation for his action, he frothed some more and told me that it was a misdemeanor and he could take me in. I gave him a withering glance and asked him where he planned to put me, on the back of his bike? He went on his way.
I got to work and was written up for being late. Three times and you're fired. On the way home that night, a real cop pulled me over. I'm had no license plate. He feared a stolen car. He was shocked. I burst into tears and he went to his car hunting for something to dry my tears. He came up empty. As my face dissolved into a puddle, he tried to make sense of what had happened. He asked for a description of the cops uniform. I couldn't say.
The next day he called me to offer to take me to the dmv to straighten out the mess. Two sides of a flipped coin, literally good cop/bad cop.
How do we get rid of the bad cops?
6
Could the NYT please publish the videos from the body cams of two other police officers in Ray Tensing's case?
2
I have a novel idea for police officers concerned about body cams showing an incomplete or misleading picture of their actions with citizens especially Black citizens. Stop shooting people unless they actually present a clear danger to you. It's not hard. If the person is unarmed and rude to you don't shoot them. If the person is running away from you don't shoot them. If you stop them for a traffic violation don't shoot them. If they are committing a minor crime don't shoot them. If they are committing a non-violent crime don't shoot them. If they have their hands raised and no weapon in sight don't shoot them.
10
These videos are to police misconduct what news cameras were to segregation when Bull Connor's dogs were seen across the nation attacking civil rights protesters awakening the country to what segregation really meant. While racism has decreased in 50 years, it is still here, just in less obvious ways than the past. The camera has done more for truth than perhaps any other single invention in history except, perhaps, the printing press. Body cameras for all police officers.
7
Most of America's police departments struggle to foster an image as a professional police agency. Police racism and corruption remains a substantial challenge for most of America's police departments. While the extent of police racism cannot be easily or accurately measured, there is evidence that the problem is a widespread and systemic one. This is not to say that most or a majority of police officials engage in racism. However, the prevalence of the problem is such that it substantially hinders the extent to which to the police is able to achieve its constitutional objectives and build public trust. This is not a unique challenge facing America's police departments. Racism is a challenge throughout the country’s public and
private sectors. But given the nexus of power, discretion and inadequate accountability that often arises in policing, this profession is particularly prone to the problem of racism and corruption.
private sectors. But given the nexus of power, discretion and inadequate accountability that often arises in policing, this profession is particularly prone to the problem of racism and corruption.
6
In my opinion, it is about time we got body cameras for police officers. Millions of citizens are already being moderated and video taped while working with security cameras- why are officers any exception? If the officers are doing their jobs correctly, then they should have nothing to fear. Even if they made an honest mistake, they should still feel the legal punishments of their actions. Body cameras are just one way to keep our officers in check. Furthermore, I can't help but think what would have happened if the Ray Tensing affair hadn't been recorded. Would Tensing still be indicted? Or would the shooting go completely unnoticed?
6
The fact that the public's view of police is shifting is plain to see. From this thread alone. Due to recordings of police bullying and violent over-reaction.
It is also evident, again right in this very thread, that our police are not very happy that their authority is being threatened by the very citizens whom they SERVE. Sadly, it seems, they have forgotten that society at large is their employer - NOT their subjugated entity.
I can understand that this dawning realization must be a shock. But we live in a democratic, not a totalitarian society. We are free citizens, not conscripts to military rule. And we all deserve to be treated with respect.
Many professions deal with anger all the time. Without belittling. Without handcuffing. Without tackling, taxing, shooting or executing. And the police can learn to do likewise. They MUST learn to do likewise.
There is a long history of police brutality toward African Americans. And some, not surpringly, have great difficulty being calm in the face of one more police stop. Nonetheless, it is the responsibility of a person in POWER to respond respectfully and to maintain a calm demeanor.
We need better policing. Across the board. Till society is satisfied.
Good cops will welcome this! Good cops surely want to work toward more cooperative, civil policing.
It is also evident, again right in this very thread, that our police are not very happy that their authority is being threatened by the very citizens whom they SERVE. Sadly, it seems, they have forgotten that society at large is their employer - NOT their subjugated entity.
I can understand that this dawning realization must be a shock. But we live in a democratic, not a totalitarian society. We are free citizens, not conscripts to military rule. And we all deserve to be treated with respect.
Many professions deal with anger all the time. Without belittling. Without handcuffing. Without tackling, taxing, shooting or executing. And the police can learn to do likewise. They MUST learn to do likewise.
There is a long history of police brutality toward African Americans. And some, not surpringly, have great difficulty being calm in the face of one more police stop. Nonetheless, it is the responsibility of a person in POWER to respond respectfully and to maintain a calm demeanor.
We need better policing. Across the board. Till society is satisfied.
Good cops will welcome this! Good cops surely want to work toward more cooperative, civil policing.
13
Correction: the spell-check changed "tazing". To "taxing".
1
This may be an unpopular opinion but I do think some of the officers who are found guilty of police brutality are being scapegoated. In this most recent case, Ray Tensing was obviously wrong, had no grounds to shoot the motorist and should face the appropriate consequences. That being said, what struck me the most was how instinctively he pulled the trigger. The moment the motorist made an unexpected move, he impulsively pull his gun and shot the victim in the head. This suggests that the officer was poorly trained, which points to a much broader problem than him just being "a bad apple".
For this reason, think his police department should also be held liable. They put a gun in his hands without proper instructions for how to use it. Moreover, they have fostered a climate of unaccountability, which protects and promotes officers like Mr. Tensing. Without this video, he would have faced no punishments and may have even been rewarded for "bravery". While it might be cathartic to see Officer Tensing behind bars, justice will not be served until we force the police to reevaluate how they treat our citizens.
For this reason, think his police department should also be held liable. They put a gun in his hands without proper instructions for how to use it. Moreover, they have fostered a climate of unaccountability, which protects and promotes officers like Mr. Tensing. Without this video, he would have faced no punishments and may have even been rewarded for "bravery". While it might be cathartic to see Officer Tensing behind bars, justice will not be served until we force the police to reevaluate how they treat our citizens.
15
This has been going on for so long, since forever. My first ticket, at the age of 18, was given me by a cop in South Florida. It was February 29th, leap year. I stopped in the left turn lane at a red light. When it turned green, I proceeded. This man came from a different direction and couldn't see what kind of light I had. He asked me why I ran the red light. I stoutly told him I had waited for a green light to proceed. He paused briefly, looked me squarely in the eye, and said," who do you think the judge will believe, you or me?" The. He wrote the ticket. Quotas I suppose...
And that in a nutshell is our problem in this country. The justice system has elevated cop worship to an unholy catastrophe.
And that in a nutshell is our problem in this country. The justice system has elevated cop worship to an unholy catastrophe.
15
There is clearly a problem in how police forces in the US approach their task. What video cameras reveal is the extent to which police forces are recruiting people who are psychologically unfitted for the job. At a minimum some sort of screening is obviously needed, as well as a change in the attitude of the organizations.
9
How come it doesn’t bother anyone that they are making judgments about police and policing based on a tiny fraction of police encounters that are sensational and have been reported on and blown up out of all proportion to reality. Millions of police encounters a day and we are making judgments based on less than a dozen in the past year. Yes, each is tragic but when the police claim it is just a few bad apples aren’t they right?
When did we as a nation lose all perspective about absolutely everything? We are addicted to hyperbole and over the top emotionalism. No matter what the issue, policing or Iran, even climate change, the positions have to be extreme and the arguments apocalyptic.
We are all sure of a reality that isn’t real, a reality that we have to make up as we go because the barrage of information and opinion comes at us so fast that we can’t stitch it together into a true picture of anything in time to make rational judgments. No sooner do we think we have a handle on something then more pieces are flying at us and the truth seems written on a palimpsest constantly being erased and rewritten. Most people just give up and never rethink their positions.
We are now a society and culture in freefall, no new ideas of any substance, no leadership with any vision and no art with any real meaning. The age of television and social media has led to intellectual atrophy and rendered us incapable of solving our problems or seeing them clearly.
When did we as a nation lose all perspective about absolutely everything? We are addicted to hyperbole and over the top emotionalism. No matter what the issue, policing or Iran, even climate change, the positions have to be extreme and the arguments apocalyptic.
We are all sure of a reality that isn’t real, a reality that we have to make up as we go because the barrage of information and opinion comes at us so fast that we can’t stitch it together into a true picture of anything in time to make rational judgments. No sooner do we think we have a handle on something then more pieces are flying at us and the truth seems written on a palimpsest constantly being erased and rewritten. Most people just give up and never rethink their positions.
We are now a society and culture in freefall, no new ideas of any substance, no leadership with any vision and no art with any real meaning. The age of television and social media has led to intellectual atrophy and rendered us incapable of solving our problems or seeing them clearly.
4
You make some good points. But there's some hyperbole there, in that problems can indeed still be addressed and sometimes solved. And the problem of dealing with police who bully and sometimes kill those they stop on the street is one of those we do need to solve. Most of us do not blame all police for them. But power does tend to corrupt, and those with power to stop, imprison, or kill us need to be restrained in that power and in that tendency. By themselves, their fellow officers if not themselves, and accountability to those they serve.
5
It takes a bully to take down a bully
Benjamin, I'm having trouble following your logic but then I've been reading the comments others have left as well as writing about my own encounters with police. What I am reading is anecdotal evidence that Americans of every color and stripe have been mistreated by men wearing blue uniforms.(I have yet to hear of a case of a female officer doing this. Could be one somewhere.) I dont think it is unreasonable to ask why our police are spending time on trivial matters that widely harass the population when they could be out looking for rapists? Rape is a crime you can be pretty much assured of committing with impunity, the very few false accusations by mentally ill people being set aside. My theory is that a small percentage of our male population is engaged in serial rape. To prove or disprove my theory we would only have to test all those invasive rape kits and look for patterns. Serial rapists aren't pursued the way speeders are.
Can't we come to some sort of compromise where we pay decent, fair tax rate (would have to be higher than what we pay now) and in return the police cease and desist of harassing our population with spurious accusations and tickets that occasionally unhinge a citizen who has been railroaded one time too many and mouths off only to be summarily executed? And as a result, we have new shiny infrastructure to match our new shiny century? This system is not worthy of the USA.
Can't we come to some sort of compromise where we pay decent, fair tax rate (would have to be higher than what we pay now) and in return the police cease and desist of harassing our population with spurious accusations and tickets that occasionally unhinge a citizen who has been railroaded one time too many and mouths off only to be summarily executed? And as a result, we have new shiny infrastructure to match our new shiny century? This system is not worthy of the USA.
4
While there have been a number of high profile, unwarranted shootings of civilians caught on video in the past year, there is little or no publicity of the verbal and physical abuse officers receive from the public. Consider the fear and uncertainty when called to a residence to respond to domestic violence or stopping someone on the side of the highway. I work in an emergency room. From time to time, civilians (usually drunk or high) have been brought in after assaulting the police. Most often, after hearing their story, I am amazed at the restraint the police have shown. I have actually said to some patients, "I'm surprised the police didn't shoot you." I'm sorry that a number of people have died, but I have not forgotten the difficult circumstances that police officers work under. Police need more training, but so do civilians. Running away, resisting arrest, challenging their authority ("What did I do?") is the wrong response. The next time I am approached by the police I will: be polite, respectfully answer the questions they ask and refrain from asking them questions. There is a time and place to question their decision or complain about their actions. It's not on the side of the road.
5
I have been told by many, including an officer that it is well within a person's rights to ask why they are being stopped.
So, "what did I do" is not at all a challenge to a police officer's authority at least where I live. In fact in some of the videos you will see that cops will readily answer that. Should we give up the right to know why we have been stopped just to stay alive from someone who could easily abuse the forbearance afforded to them by law?
From my perspective as a citizen, the cop's duty is to safely deliver a suspect to the justice system. If the faintest doubt about a suspects intention is to result in their immediate death, that is not serving our society's belief in that branch if government.
So, we need to aim for a world where the default is not getting harassed, shot at, or killed by the police. The surprise should be that an officer has shot someone.
If we accept that violent responses are the default, we are not a democracy.
So, "what did I do" is not at all a challenge to a police officer's authority at least where I live. In fact in some of the videos you will see that cops will readily answer that. Should we give up the right to know why we have been stopped just to stay alive from someone who could easily abuse the forbearance afforded to them by law?
From my perspective as a citizen, the cop's duty is to safely deliver a suspect to the justice system. If the faintest doubt about a suspects intention is to result in their immediate death, that is not serving our society's belief in that branch if government.
So, we need to aim for a world where the default is not getting harassed, shot at, or killed by the police. The surprise should be that an officer has shot someone.
If we accept that violent responses are the default, we are not a democracy.
4
The drug war has empowered and corrupted the police.
Politician have exploited peoples fears. The media and movies have brainwashed the citizenry. Fear of the black man has been exploited by all.
American exceptionalism is just words. With millions in jail we must be the most evil people on the planet.
Politics and capitalism has failed us. Greed and fear has enslaved us.
The problems come from the top, the police are at the bottom.
Politician have exploited peoples fears. The media and movies have brainwashed the citizenry. Fear of the black man has been exploited by all.
American exceptionalism is just words. With millions in jail we must be the most evil people on the planet.
Politics and capitalism has failed us. Greed and fear has enslaved us.
The problems come from the top, the police are at the bottom.
8
And the next thing we need to start looking at is why so many citizens are being killed senselessly because police officers are chasing a vehicle at high speeds throughout heavily populated areas.
Too many police officers treat vehicle pursuits as if they're in a thrilling episode of the "Dukes of Hazard," and then lose discretion, good judgment, and common sense. Is capturing someone who ran a red light really worth innocent bystanders dying?
Let's be frank - it's time for a complete reassessment of the way we police our streets in the United States. Just like we throw our military weight around the world and opt for violence and deadly force as a first option, police officers are quick to shoot guns and/or beat suspects rather than deescalate tension.
How many more times must we hear "I had to shoot him 17 times because he appeared to be reaching for his waistband" before we can agree that killing an unarmed citizen without actually SEEING a weapon first is, minimally, rank cowardice and incompetence and, at worst, a ludicrous excuse to murder an unarmed human being.
And at some point it might also make sense to address the brutality suffered by millions of prisoners all over America. Punishment is one thing, but sadistically treating prisoners like wild animals should not be tolerated.
It's time to hold officers and their supervisors accountable for their actions! The days of looking the other way when officers subvert our constitution are hopefully coming to an end.
Too many police officers treat vehicle pursuits as if they're in a thrilling episode of the "Dukes of Hazard," and then lose discretion, good judgment, and common sense. Is capturing someone who ran a red light really worth innocent bystanders dying?
Let's be frank - it's time for a complete reassessment of the way we police our streets in the United States. Just like we throw our military weight around the world and opt for violence and deadly force as a first option, police officers are quick to shoot guns and/or beat suspects rather than deescalate tension.
How many more times must we hear "I had to shoot him 17 times because he appeared to be reaching for his waistband" before we can agree that killing an unarmed citizen without actually SEEING a weapon first is, minimally, rank cowardice and incompetence and, at worst, a ludicrous excuse to murder an unarmed human being.
And at some point it might also make sense to address the brutality suffered by millions of prisoners all over America. Punishment is one thing, but sadistically treating prisoners like wild animals should not be tolerated.
It's time to hold officers and their supervisors accountable for their actions! The days of looking the other way when officers subvert our constitution are hopefully coming to an end.
9
I agree 100% on police chases, and have always said that the ONLY time there should be police chases are to prevent an imminent or likely murder (i.e., driver has taken a hostage and is known to have a weapon, driver with a semi-automatic weapon has threatened to go on a shooting rampage, etc.). Police chases should NEVER be allowed to catch a car thief, a burglar, etc.
Indeed, often innocent pedestrians or other drivers are maimed or killed during police chases, and then the police try to turn it around and say that the perpetrator of the crime caused all of this. Wrong. The police, in using strong-arm, overly-aggressive techniques, caused this. It's not worth it, all to catch a burglar.
Indeed, often innocent pedestrians or other drivers are maimed or killed during police chases, and then the police try to turn it around and say that the perpetrator of the crime caused all of this. Wrong. The police, in using strong-arm, overly-aggressive techniques, caused this. It's not worth it, all to catch a burglar.
10
I am concerned that this anti-police sentiment will create a more unsafe country. I don't see positive outcomes from this video "glare". I foresee more chaos and a deepening cultural chasm.
There are more police that risk everything…EVERYTHING…to protect their communities than those who have been caught in the "glare". We will all suffer from the fallout.
There are more police that risk everything…EVERYTHING…to protect their communities than those who have been caught in the "glare". We will all suffer from the fallout.
2
Every law-enforcement officer who performs his or her job in a professional manner deserves our respect and gratitude. This is not about those officers. It is about officers who degrade that respect because of an inevitable, even if unfair, guilt by association.
We don't require that every politician be crooked or a liar before we attempt political reform. We do not need video of 1000 or 10,000 bad stops before we spend some time examining our attitudes and our views of what is true and what is not true. Every law-enforcement officer is, obviously, not Ray Tensing, but Ray Tensing is also not a single bad apple. Let's be balanced and thoughtful . Let's not be naive. So far, this process has been a positive thing for the country and is likely to bring useful reforms .
We don't require that every politician be crooked or a liar before we attempt political reform. We do not need video of 1000 or 10,000 bad stops before we spend some time examining our attitudes and our views of what is true and what is not true. Every law-enforcement officer is, obviously, not Ray Tensing, but Ray Tensing is also not a single bad apple. Let's be balanced and thoughtful . Let's not be naive. So far, this process has been a positive thing for the country and is likely to bring useful reforms .
7
We've seen shocking videos of about 10 police encounters, all of which were interracial. None of the 10 or so included racist statements. Rather we have inferred racism based on the fact that the incidents were interracial and the black community and white liberals are united in the belief that what happened "had to" reflect racism. I'd like to see the 10 most flagrant instances of police misconduct involving white on white encounters. My guess is they'd look pretty much the same as the 10 interracial ones. And just maybe that's because cops sometimes get extremely angry at suspects, black or white, and once they do they can spiral out of control and kill for no good reason. That's not racism. That's an anger problem.
2
Think of all of the tragic police violence against the people of our country - black, white, Asian, Native American - over the last 100 years. Think of all the frame-ups to convict innocent people over the last 100 years. Think about how often all of the blame has been leveled against the citizens, the immigrants...the innocent. It really makes you sick. Just last night, a police car roared up to within a few feet of my rear bumper on a major highway. Fortunately, I remembered to signal as I got out of his way, or he would have had me pulled over to see what else he could charge me with, another notch on his daily quota.
7
Where is the war taking place? In faraway Syria or on the streets of everycity, USA?
5
Video shows beyond reasonable doubt that Tensing was unjustified to use deadly force against Dubose. We know he was not being dragged because his left hand was not caught on anything. The video shows he shot Dubose before the car had even moved one foot. If Tensing was afraid he'd be dragged, why not just take his arm out of the car? (What training told him to put his arm in the car in the first place?) Why the decision to grab the seatbelt and shoot Dubose in the head? Dubose did nothing to make Tensing fear for his life.
I'm still waiting for an explanation of why none of the cops tried to aid Dubose. I'm pretty sure that if that was a cop in the car with a gushing head wound they would not be standing around waiting for an ambulance. I am amazed that nobody has commented on this. Everyone seems to have concluded that Dubose was already dead. How could they possibly know he was dead unless they touched him?
That said, there are several videos of drivers shooting at cops after a seemingly minor traffic stop. So cops aren't always the ones who escalate to violence. Let's not let the small percentage of bad cops be a reason to prejudge the mostly good ones. That's the same faulty reasoning used by racists.
I'm still waiting for an explanation of why none of the cops tried to aid Dubose. I'm pretty sure that if that was a cop in the car with a gushing head wound they would not be standing around waiting for an ambulance. I am amazed that nobody has commented on this. Everyone seems to have concluded that Dubose was already dead. How could they possibly know he was dead unless they touched him?
That said, there are several videos of drivers shooting at cops after a seemingly minor traffic stop. So cops aren't always the ones who escalate to violence. Let's not let the small percentage of bad cops be a reason to prejudge the mostly good ones. That's the same faulty reasoning used by racists.
4
So let me get this straight. It took personal-held cameras for the the majority of Americans to believe the accounts of poor African Americans? So did most people believe that an entire community was making up stories?
5
What will it take for you to believe that African Americans commit a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crimes in the USA?
1
What will it take for you to believe that most African Americans don't commit crimes?
What will it take for you to believe that African Americans are entitled to be treated just like every other American citizen (or human being) by the police?
What will it take for you to believe that African Americans are entitled to be treated just like every other American citizen (or human being) by the police?
4
Proper statistical analyses are impervious to emotional hysteria. Sorry.
2
One highly relevant statistic I don't recall seeing any evidence for over the last year or so is the number of white drivers shot and killed by police following traffic stops for minor infractions. There are a lot more white drivers than black ones, and presumably minor traffic violations are pursued by the police at similar rates. The apparent absence of administrative executions of white drivers by police following such incidents seems to furnish rather compelling hard evidence of a serious problem here for those unfortunate enough to be apprehended while driving as a black person.
4
Too bad there was no video recording for Trayvon Martin.
3
There was. It showed that the Peruvian-American George Zimmerman had the back of his head bashed into the ground, just like he said.
2
Compassion for the law enforcement officers who - every day on the job - see citizens on the very worst day of that citizens life.... should not exclude the understanding that an awful lot of LEO barrels have a few rotten apples.
The best way to find those bad apples, and to validate the trustworthiness of the good apples, is to video all the LEOs, all the time that they are on the job. (no questions should ever arise as to why the cop shut off his camera).
Cameras are getting cheaper. Video storage technology is getting cheaper. Legal costs are going up. This should be an easy decision for every police department in the country.
The best way to find those bad apples, and to validate the trustworthiness of the good apples, is to video all the LEOs, all the time that they are on the job. (no questions should ever arise as to why the cop shut off his camera).
Cameras are getting cheaper. Video storage technology is getting cheaper. Legal costs are going up. This should be an easy decision for every police department in the country.
1
“A negative is that police might say, ‘We just won’t put ourselves in bad situations,’ that they say, ‘We are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’ ” said Francis T. Cullen, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati.
Will someone please list the cops who have been convicted of murder or voluntary manslaughter?
Will someone please list the cops who have been convicted of murder or voluntary manslaughter?
2
Seeing this video just makes me sick. I hate it when people, well people on the law the ones who are supposed to protect us, just kill other people just because of their race. Police officers these days are taking advantage of their privileges to harm others because in their mind they the victim won't take action because they have a gun and if the victim does take action they can just arrest you; which wouldn't be fair for the victim. I really think police officers are abusing their power for their own. I'll somehow pray for one day to be peace where we can all make amends but, for sure, that won't be for quite a long time.
1
My husband was a police officer for 35 years. This was in California where officer training is a point of pride. If you think that officers don't bully or exceed their authority, you are just stupid.
5
Endless videos of unlawful police behavior coupled with false "corroborating" police partner testimony, and the endless blue wall of silence behavior, will result in fewer criminal trials because cops will no longer be viewed as credible trial witnesses.
2
Some of the questions about police body cameras posed in this article:
Who's gonna' pay for them ?
Why DHS, of course, the same way they subsidize surplus weaponry left over from recent DoD excursions into Iraq & Afghanistan under program 1033.
Split second decisions under pressure ? That's in the job description.
This is similar to surgeons & anesthetists in the operating room.
Union reticence ? The culture of "the thin blue line" could be changed.
When to turn them on & off ? On whenever interacting wit "the public".
Storage time ? Until no more citizens are killed.
Who's gonna' pay for them ?
Why DHS, of course, the same way they subsidize surplus weaponry left over from recent DoD excursions into Iraq & Afghanistan under program 1033.
Split second decisions under pressure ? That's in the job description.
This is similar to surgeons & anesthetists in the operating room.
Union reticence ? The culture of "the thin blue line" could be changed.
When to turn them on & off ? On whenever interacting wit "the public".
Storage time ? Until no more citizens are killed.
1
The bully culture that took root with Bush 2 has left us this bitter harvest. The lowest common denominator, empowered at last, had their leader. No more sand in my eye! Just let the bombs and bullets fly, then ask questions later. This is what actually did trickle down from the top to the bottom: a model of bullying as the new American way, an arrogance, a closing of ranks around racial entitlement, a corruption and consolidation of power, a mean juice that has trickled down and soured everything. A rough beast, the frightening new american, slouches toward us.
5
The Faternal Order of Police needs to be further investigated on how they influence lobbying, training, policies, pensions, wages, recruitment, and officers working on ancillary jobs while off duty. It would be interesting to see the racial composition of the board membership of the FOP and how much they spend on lobbying for lax laws, who they support, and who are their lobbyist. An organization that boasts 325,000 members that are sworn into its membership must have a very deep pocket. Moreover a state's prosecutor's office and the FOP have always maintained close relations behind closed doors. They also have an influence on judicial appoinentments at local state level.
Perhaps the Times can help us all understand where the FOP fits into this extremely powerful system where it appears to silently support police maltreatment of African Americans.
The FOP's emblem is showcased with a white background, which according to Wikipedia means that they stand for purity and not color stained. It's time we look at the Parents who are raising these bully kids...
Perhaps the Times can help us all understand where the FOP fits into this extremely powerful system where it appears to silently support police maltreatment of African Americans.
The FOP's emblem is showcased with a white background, which according to Wikipedia means that they stand for purity and not color stained. It's time we look at the Parents who are raising these bully kids...
1
When did the TIMES fully adopt advocacy journalism?
Referring to Prof. Paul Butler, the author or "Hip Hop Justice" as a former prosecutor, while technically correct overlooks the fact that Butler loathes prosecutors. Butler has been quoted as saying he quit the job (not because he was arrested and later acquitted on a minor charge) but because "prosecutors are bullies."
The relationship of all communities and the police is always a complex one, but his kind of one-sided stereotyping diminishes the "Grey Lady."
Referring to Prof. Paul Butler, the author or "Hip Hop Justice" as a former prosecutor, while technically correct overlooks the fact that Butler loathes prosecutors. Butler has been quoted as saying he quit the job (not because he was arrested and later acquitted on a minor charge) but because "prosecutors are bullies."
The relationship of all communities and the police is always a complex one, but his kind of one-sided stereotyping diminishes the "Grey Lady."
4
I would like to see the poll that reflects the declining confidence people have in the reporting of the press in general and in the New York Times in particular
5
I've probably had a dozen interactions with police in my 50+ years, and all but one of them were negative. And I have no police record, and only one traffic ticket. It's difficult to imagine what interactions are like once you've been identified as a criminal suspect, or stopped for some other unspoken reason. The more video recording, the better--for all parties concerned. But as we all know, taped episodes don't mean someone will be punished even for clearly illegal behavior.
I want to be sympathetic to the working conditions for officers. Intellectually I know it's incredibly stressful. But I've seen way too much evidence that points back to poor personnel choices, lousy training, a culture of dishonesty at any cost, infiltration by those not appropriate to the roles, and an intractable fear/disrespect towards minorities and the poor. It's impossible to refute what I've seen with my own two eyes.
I want to be sympathetic to the working conditions for officers. Intellectually I know it's incredibly stressful. But I've seen way too much evidence that points back to poor personnel choices, lousy training, a culture of dishonesty at any cost, infiltration by those not appropriate to the roles, and an intractable fear/disrespect towards minorities and the poor. It's impossible to refute what I've seen with my own two eyes.
4
“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.” What's your point? Black people have millions of contacts with each other every day and the vast majority are not drive-by shootings. Millions of people in the Middle East do not belong to ISIS or behead others. Millions of bankers don't swindle people. None of this is news because news deals with the new or unusual or it's not news. "Man bites dog ..."
2
Hopefully, as we white people wake up, we will also become more sensitive to the fact that these videos are/should be REALLY TRAUMATIC to watch. Some of them amount to "snuff" videos. Usually, the only people who would "need" to see such videos are law enforcement investigators, courts and grand juries seeking justice for the victims in the videos. It is beyond unfortunate that they need to be shown to the public just so that the public can compel officials to get off their butts.
4
What an incredibly, difficult job Policing must be. We ask these men and women to instantly respond at all times in exactly a manner appropriate to the situation. One moment we need them to politely issue a warning to someone with headlights out, making sure not to infringe on that person's rights... and the next moment we need them to risk their lives to stop a school shooting.
We can't allow them to bully and harass someone who's NOT a danger, but we need them to stop someone who IS - and they have to instantly judge whether threat or not....... WITHOUT infringing on someone's rights. They are damned if they use too much force to stop someone who runs, but damned if they don't, and that person turns out to be a violent felon, terrorist, etc.
The physical skills of a highly trained athlete, and judgement of Solomon, both at the same time - that's all we ask of them. How incredibly difficult, how unique a skill!
If this is what we, as a Society need, and we do..... then we need to find, hire, train, supervise, and support only the very most capable and qualified people. If a business needs to hire only the best people, it has to pay for the best. We need to pay to hire only the best.
PAY FOR GREAT POLICING! Make it a very valued, very high paying position. Have it be "Only the finest get hired, and only the finest get to keep this job"... and then train, supervise, train, supervise, and train and supervise some more.
We can't allow them to bully and harass someone who's NOT a danger, but we need them to stop someone who IS - and they have to instantly judge whether threat or not....... WITHOUT infringing on someone's rights. They are damned if they use too much force to stop someone who runs, but damned if they don't, and that person turns out to be a violent felon, terrorist, etc.
The physical skills of a highly trained athlete, and judgement of Solomon, both at the same time - that's all we ask of them. How incredibly difficult, how unique a skill!
If this is what we, as a Society need, and we do..... then we need to find, hire, train, supervise, and support only the very most capable and qualified people. If a business needs to hire only the best people, it has to pay for the best. We need to pay to hire only the best.
PAY FOR GREAT POLICING! Make it a very valued, very high paying position. Have it be "Only the finest get hired, and only the finest get to keep this job"... and then train, supervise, train, supervise, and train and supervise some more.
3
I'm with you on all points but the following...
"They are damned if they use too much force to stop someone who runs."
You don't use a gun to stop someone who's running/driving away. Ever.
"They are damned if they use too much force to stop someone who runs."
You don't use a gun to stop someone who's running/driving away. Ever.
They deserve to be "damned if they use too much force." What part of "too much" are you missing here?
I would like to see more security camera footage of crimes in progress. The press has been reluctant to post some of the more graphic footage while gleefully posting footage of alleged police misconduct. Also, many news outlets will not mention the race of perpetrators of crimes. Contrast that with the Times' front page headlines of white cop shoots black victims.
It might put some of this violence in perspective. In the mean time, look for crime to soar as police are increasingly reluctant to take enforcement action. Can you blame them?
It might put some of this violence in perspective. In the mean time, look for crime to soar as police are increasingly reluctant to take enforcement action. Can you blame them?
4
No Sir, it would actually scew the perspective by associating video of criminals committing crimes with the victims of this police thuggery when the two have nothing in common except the color of their skin. Are you really suggesting that the crimes of these police officers against law abiding citizens would be, somehow, justified or "put in perspective" if there were only more videos of Blacks (who are not the victims) commiting crimes? I really hope that I totally misread your comment because if not, you seem to be saying that if Black person A commits a crime any cop is justified in killing Black person Z. If you are able to read the NYT, you should be able to understand how ridiculous, illogical, and blatantly racist your attitude on policing is.
If one just arrived on the planet, one might assume the police are on some sort of rampage. Of course the stats say the opposite is true. Police shootings in NYC , for example, are way down from decades ago. But the availability of cell phones have shown a bright light on some ugly incidents.
I am all for reporting on these incidents. What I am saying is that the Times has no problem reporting the race of the police and the victims in these cases, but will not report the race of a perpetrator of other crimes. Why?
Especially ridiculous is when the press reports the age, height and weight of a suspect the police are looking for but will not reveal his race. Can you explain why that is?
The world the police live in is an ugly work. Even good police work is not pretty. Lets see more of this world.
I am all for reporting on these incidents. What I am saying is that the Times has no problem reporting the race of the police and the victims in these cases, but will not report the race of a perpetrator of other crimes. Why?
Especially ridiculous is when the press reports the age, height and weight of a suspect the police are looking for but will not reveal his race. Can you explain why that is?
The world the police live in is an ugly work. Even good police work is not pretty. Lets see more of this world.
Google Sgt. Scott Lunger. He was a police sergeant murdered during a traffic stop by Mark Estrada of Oakland, CA. His funeral received no fanfare, hardly a blip of national coverage. It's incidents like this that makes cops intolerant of any hostile resistance, even verbal. The NY Times should give equal weight to cases like Sgt. Lunger, so that the public's view of the difficulty in policing the belligerent is "shifted" in the public mindset.
3
His death is a tragedy, and it's true that police have a difficult and, sometimes, dangerous job. Nevertheless, it's a job they signed up for -- nobody made them do it -- and thus it should be expected that they understand and accept the conditions of the job. One of those conditions, IMO, is that the burden of risk lies on the officer, not on the civilians he encounters. It's important that an officer go home safely at the end of his shift; it's more important to me that the people he encounters do.
2
Given that a cop can be shot at any moment, even during a traffic stop, a cop's job is always dangerous. And if you flee the police and even hint at violence toward them, when no violence was initiated toward you, you take on a very large burden of risk. Nobody wants to see people shot or driven to suicide for a moving violation. However, the media is now glorifying victims who don't deserve the glorification, or even that much sympathy. The bigoted #blacklivesmatter campaign is given lip service support only for political reasons. Everyone of all races gets hassled by cops for abusive behavior. The media only recognizes black victims, again for purely political reasons.
1
I have to disagree with you. The fetishising of the military and the police that began under Reagan (may be burn forever) has helped get us here. Crime was bad in the 70s and 80s but the overreaction has been worse and has systemically damaged the nation. Police officers are valuable public servants. So are teachers. Far too many police support the very same people who laud them to the skies and then pay hedge fund managers several thousand more a year than even the highest paid officer. All that said, the police get a paycheck. They are not "heroes." If they did that job for free, then they would be heroes - at least theoretically.
The problem is that treating the police as "special" has fostered a dangerous mentality that is now playing itself out on video. And for all of you who (whether with good or bad intentions) counsel blacks to be more compliant I offer this. I am mixed race, but identify myself as African American. I have had two encounters with the police in the past decade. In both instances, despite having an absolutely pristine record and a great respect for authority, I was treated as a criminal. In each instance, I was able to convey the message that I would be a very bad target for abuse because I am a lawyer who "knows" people. Without that to fall back on, I could very well have ended up like one of these recent victims.
Some police officers INTENTIONALLY create these situations because they want to be able to escalate to violence.
The problem is that treating the police as "special" has fostered a dangerous mentality that is now playing itself out on video. And for all of you who (whether with good or bad intentions) counsel blacks to be more compliant I offer this. I am mixed race, but identify myself as African American. I have had two encounters with the police in the past decade. In both instances, despite having an absolutely pristine record and a great respect for authority, I was treated as a criminal. In each instance, I was able to convey the message that I would be a very bad target for abuse because I am a lawyer who "knows" people. Without that to fall back on, I could very well have ended up like one of these recent victims.
Some police officers INTENTIONALLY create these situations because they want to be able to escalate to violence.
Maybe we would see a drop in such incidences if people weren't a source of revenue for municipalities in fees/fines/court costs.
6
We should do like France and Germany do . Just install speed cameras .
The police is here to protect us. They are supposed to loyal to all citizens. They are not tax generators. To give them absolute power as some are suggesting, is foolish to begin with. Once given that power, it can never be retrieved.
I don't care if the victim was a felon. I don't care if the victim was a drug addict. I don't care if the victim had just stolen something from somewhere, I don't give 2 rats a$$ if he/she has the longest criminal record in the world. A police officer has no right to take that person's life. That officer then becomes a murderer.
We have to be careful in finding excuses for some of these officers. We need not to give them absolute power. They will kill without recourse, as happened in many recent cases. Beware what we give.
I don't care if the victim was a felon. I don't care if the victim was a drug addict. I don't care if the victim had just stolen something from somewhere, I don't give 2 rats a$$ if he/she has the longest criminal record in the world. A police officer has no right to take that person's life. That officer then becomes a murderer.
We have to be careful in finding excuses for some of these officers. We need not to give them absolute power. They will kill without recourse, as happened in many recent cases. Beware what we give.
9
The intersections of police officers, African Americans, smart phones and social media have made what the black community has always experienced, irrefutable. The police in our country are charged with the unenviable task of keeping order and in many cases responding the situations that may bring them harm. Due to the gravity of their jobs, I hold police to a higher standard than civilians. If a responding to a call of rowdy teens, or a routine traffic stop of an unarmed individual turns deadly, you're doing your job wrong. The standard has to be different.
Social media has in many cases, stripped away the ability for people who espouse racist ideology or carry biases that might influence how one might regard Person A vs. Person B; to hide in plain sight. It's shining a bright spotlight on the "silent majority", if you will, and makes the ubiquitous narrative of brutality and mistreatment less abstract. It is sad that many are shocked by America's impatience with African Americans, but I remain grateful these videos force us to grapple with how we got to a place where these kinds of exchanges between police and civilians were ever tolerated.
Some say, there is behavior one must adopt in the presence of the police to quell the kinds of interactions we're seeing that may lead to death. Part of having privilege means one automatically receives the benefit of the doubt. These videos are showing whether right or wrong,minorities cannot depend on such social courtesies.
Social media has in many cases, stripped away the ability for people who espouse racist ideology or carry biases that might influence how one might regard Person A vs. Person B; to hide in plain sight. It's shining a bright spotlight on the "silent majority", if you will, and makes the ubiquitous narrative of brutality and mistreatment less abstract. It is sad that many are shocked by America's impatience with African Americans, but I remain grateful these videos force us to grapple with how we got to a place where these kinds of exchanges between police and civilians were ever tolerated.
Some say, there is behavior one must adopt in the presence of the police to quell the kinds of interactions we're seeing that may lead to death. Part of having privilege means one automatically receives the benefit of the doubt. These videos are showing whether right or wrong,minorities cannot depend on such social courtesies.
4
If your rowdy teen thinks it's cool to carry a gun and shoot anyone he doesn't like, then you're doing your parenting wrong. A less extreme example: if your rowdy teenage son thinks it's perfectly acceptable to mouth off to cops for a mere traffic stop, then you're doing your parenting wrong.
1
Yes, because even no teenagers ever disrespect authority. They should be shot in the head.
Do you law and order types even read what you right.
Karma is a tough mistress. Think about it.
Do you law and order types even read what you right.
Karma is a tough mistress. Think about it.
The white public is starting to distrust police for what we see them doing, while the black public already distrusted them from experiencing it and already knowing it for a long time now. Police no longer command the respect and credence required to function effectively as peace keepers. We don't need armed bullies with badges running our towns. We need increased accountability and better qualified police in uniform. Officers like this one put their colleagues in danger. Sign the petition for change. https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Police_can_be_improved_Stop_screeni...
6
Just one interesting aspect of cameras for police, when I was in uniform I would have welcomed them. In one instance a drunk driver stated to the jury he never threatened me, didn't swear at me, and wasn't drunk. We had recorded all this on a VCR but (back then) it wasn't admissible as evidence. He was convicted after 45 minutes of deliberation. The judge then asked the jury if they would like to see the tape. They certainly did. All I testified to was true, all his statements were lies. The judge then asked the jury foreman if, seeing that tape, would have had an impact on them. "Yep", he said (in a thick Vermont accent) "It would have saved us 45 minutes of deliberation". Cameras are a great idea. Perhaps now we can start holding defendants accountable for their (perjured) testimony.
8
we can now hold ALL people, including police for their testimony. Ever hear of the "Blue Wall of Silence"?
3
Why were you a cop? You need to watch Buffy, dude.
If taxes pay for the police and the people want the officers to wear them it shouldn't even be a debate
6
As someone who once had problems with the criminal justice system in the past but now lives a clean and sober life, I think I can speak on this subject with a bit of authority. Out of all the people who wore badges I had regular contact with (police, jail and prison guards, parole agents), the only people who ALWAYS treated me professionally and with respect were the local police. Of course, being white does help no doubt.
So, does this mean that I trust the police? Not for a moment! As I have seen and experienced personally, the only difference between a police officer, guard, or a parole agent and a prisoner or parolee is a badge and a felony conviction.
So, does this mean that I trust the police? Not for a moment! As I have seen and experienced personally, the only difference between a police officer, guard, or a parole agent and a prisoner or parolee is a badge and a felony conviction.
1
The police arguments against body cameras are the same as those that allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. Body cameras may not solve every policing issue, but traveling the road back to public trust can be accomplished incrementally, starting with a FEDERAL MANDATE that all individuals with police powers MUST wear an active body camera when in contact with the public at any place, including police stations. The cameras should be on and recording while on duty, turning them off for bathroom breaks and other biological issues that arise, but for no other reasons. The criminal Fraternal Order of Police hate body cameras or anything that yields police misconduct.
4
I want the police to patrol high-crime black neighborhoods, but I wish they wouldn't stop and question so many black people there. I want the police to catch murderers, rapists, and burglars, but they need to be nicer when going about their jobs. There are millions of illegal guns out there. Anybody suspicious could have one. But if somebody reaches for something that looks like a gun, I'd like the police to wait and confirm it's a gun until after they're shot. And when the police do something wrong and lie about in a panic, I'd like all the other police to tell me about it. Sure I expect that my friends will have my back. And I know that everybody lies on the witness stand. But the police are different. When they're arrested everyone assumes their guilt, and they'll lose their jobs even if cleared by the grand jury. Still, they always have to play by the rules. That's required by truth, justice, and the American way.
2
in their eyes, ALL black people are suspected murderers, rapists, thieves. That's is the whole problem with cops and the legal, political system in general.
1
"Recent studies showed that when officers in Rialto, Calif., and in Mesa, Ariz., wore body cameras, complaints against the police fell sharply. But body camera advocates and skeptics alike say they do not know how much that reflects a real decline in police misconduct, and how much was a drop in spurious civilian complaints; it may be that both groups behave better when they are on camera."
Isn't "better behaviour by both groups" what we want?
Isn't "better behaviour by both groups" what we want?
11
The truly scary thing is that this "glare" of a select few videos is only illuminating the tip of the iceberg. Imagine how deep this fearful, aggressive culture really goes-- the extreme cases, the Ray Tensing appearing to shoot a guy in the head, are supported below by a massive base of aggression, or corruption, or indifference, or needless escalation, or simple unprofessionalism. All of which may be racially based, or may just be the us-versus-them attitude bred by the "war on crime" and the over-arming of the police state.
After 9/11 it seems like the entire US, State, and local police became infected with an Israeli-like attitude of being embattled, justifying fear and aggression and making it reasonable to shoot to kill in the face of a stone being thrown or a knife being pulled.
It is so sad and absurd, when we are in fact an overwhelmingly and exceptionally safe nation! Only a tiny number of our 350 million-plus citizens experience threats to their lives.
We should move away from the fear and move toward a more British or European approach to policing-- increase community presence, decreasing the militarization, demanding that cops respect citizens and do not yell or curse, expecting professional, calm, de-escalating conduct.
And while I'm at it-- cops should be banned from wearing sunglasses that obscure their eyes. That would be a small but significant step to strengthen the humanity of cops and promote personal connection that leads to de-escalation.
After 9/11 it seems like the entire US, State, and local police became infected with an Israeli-like attitude of being embattled, justifying fear and aggression and making it reasonable to shoot to kill in the face of a stone being thrown or a knife being pulled.
It is so sad and absurd, when we are in fact an overwhelmingly and exceptionally safe nation! Only a tiny number of our 350 million-plus citizens experience threats to their lives.
We should move away from the fear and move toward a more British or European approach to policing-- increase community presence, decreasing the militarization, demanding that cops respect citizens and do not yell or curse, expecting professional, calm, de-escalating conduct.
And while I'm at it-- cops should be banned from wearing sunglasses that obscure their eyes. That would be a small but significant step to strengthen the humanity of cops and promote personal connection that leads to de-escalation.
7
I just read in the Cincinnati Enquirer that the Fraternal Order of Police is seeking to have Officer Tansing re-instated as a police officer now that he is out on bail because he was not afforded due process before being fired. I guess a murder indictment isn't a good enough reason to be terminated in the eyes of the police union.
As an old white guy, never in trouble in my life, I can assure you that if that story is true, my already very low opinion of the police in this country has bottomed out. This is not the way for cops to gain back the trust of the rest of us.
I think it was totally appropriate that former Officer Tansing was afforded the same level of due process that he showed to Mr. Dubois, which fortunately we have on tape.
As an old white guy, never in trouble in my life, I can assure you that if that story is true, my already very low opinion of the police in this country has bottomed out. This is not the way for cops to gain back the trust of the rest of us.
I think it was totally appropriate that former Officer Tansing was afforded the same level of due process that he showed to Mr. Dubois, which fortunately we have on tape.
8
Video cameras are now the top contender, by far, for Time Magazine's Person (or in this case, Thing) of the Year.
5
A second University of Cincinnati body camera video is out as of July 30. Officer Tensing: "I got my hand and my arm caught, he was dragging me." Second (white, tattooed) Officer: "Yeah I saw that."
New York Times, make sure you get copies of each officer at the scene's police report. Any small step you can take will help shed light on this institutional genocide of black men by the prison industrial complex.
New York Times, make sure you get copies of each officer at the scene's police report. Any small step you can take will help shed light on this institutional genocide of black men by the prison industrial complex.
4
Did you hear later on in that video one of the officers saying to the other "Don't say anything"?
4
People shouldn't be so happy when a DA says he is going to seek a murder charge against a police officer. The DA is going to seek an indictment on a first degree murder charge which requires premeditation. Since it cannot be proved that the officer planned to murder that specific person -- or that he planned to kill anyone at all that day --- the grand jury will fail to indict. It's a cunning way for DAs to look as if they're shocked and that they "mean business" while they are actually telling the cop's lawyers not to worry -- he'll see to it the grand jury won't indict and the cop will walk free.
2
I suspect the DA is more familiar with Ohio law than you are.
3
Most state law holds that "intent" can be formed in an instant; i.e., the decision to pull the trigger itself is sufficient.
I would like to know if having a gun with a bullet in the chamber and safety off is a standard police procedure for traffic stops in Cincinnati.
2
This is very riveting because the role of police is to give the people of communities a feeling of security and safety. However, in certain areas, they are now projecting actions that cause fear instead of comfort. I don’t understand the reasoning behind police brutality to people of color. It kinda seems like when they see a person of color; they don’t see them as a person, but rather an immediate danger/threat without any valid reasoning.
The difficult thing about police brutality is most of the publics views are based on what they see on video. The video only captures segments of each incident. Also, with cases like this, there are so many different perspectives on the subject. Plus, people who strongly believe in mistreatment to falsely accused African Americans are going against the police who are people of authority. This makes it a lot harder to override their actions.
The difficult thing about police brutality is most of the publics views are based on what they see on video. The video only captures segments of each incident. Also, with cases like this, there are so many different perspectives on the subject. Plus, people who strongly believe in mistreatment to falsely accused African Americans are going against the police who are people of authority. This makes it a lot harder to override their actions.
1
The New York Times is perpetuating an irrational hysteria around this whole situation. An overwhelming majority of the NYT Picks are people who seriously believe there is a gigantic police conspiracy to keep black people down. Rather, any rational, intelligent person, will see that there are simply some people who are hired as Police Officers who do not have the mental and physical capacity to do the job. Millions of black/hispanic/white cops see these same videos and agree that some of these cops are grossly incompetent.
I said this in a prior post. The job of Police Officer is the single most powerful job in our country. They have the power to arrest any other citizen as long as there is probable cause for that arrest, which they are expected to formulate themselves. If we want cops who are highly intelligent, empathetic, physically fit, cool under pressure, essentially perfect human beings-- all qualities better suited to someone becoming a much higher paying doctor or lawyer -- then we must end the expectation that we can attract those types of people with a decent paying blue collar pay scale and benefits package. As long as Police work is considered blue collar work that does not require a genius to do, we will continue to attract the wrong type of applicants.
I said this in a prior post. The job of Police Officer is the single most powerful job in our country. They have the power to arrest any other citizen as long as there is probable cause for that arrest, which they are expected to formulate themselves. If we want cops who are highly intelligent, empathetic, physically fit, cool under pressure, essentially perfect human beings-- all qualities better suited to someone becoming a much higher paying doctor or lawyer -- then we must end the expectation that we can attract those types of people with a decent paying blue collar pay scale and benefits package. As long as Police work is considered blue collar work that does not require a genius to do, we will continue to attract the wrong type of applicants.
14
A lot of people would agree with your first paragraph, there is definitely need for additional awareness and training and it's likely that the sustained attention will help to make that happen nationwide.
However the public's reaction shows that these incidents and reports are happening way too often, and they do think about the fact that this "may be the tip of the iceberg", "what about those that aren't reported or caught?" etc. thus the clamor for more camera requirements.
"If one has noting to hide, then there is not need to hide anything", in the case of police interactions with any group.
Society is asking for fairness, justice, more accountability, and rightfully so.
However the public's reaction shows that these incidents and reports are happening way too often, and they do think about the fact that this "may be the tip of the iceberg", "what about those that aren't reported or caught?" etc. thus the clamor for more camera requirements.
"If one has noting to hide, then there is not need to hide anything", in the case of police interactions with any group.
Society is asking for fairness, justice, more accountability, and rightfully so.
5
I would like to state again that it is the entire system that can conceivably be corrupt, without enough accountability for inherent bias, even at the lawyer, district attorney and presiding judge levels (most or all of whom had a very expensive and gruelling education). Even when one no longer has to deal with local police (i.e., when one is arrested and placed in jail to await trial), one still has to contend with potential bias with prosecution lawyers, judges and juries. I respect police officers and have incredible appreciation for the difficulty of their work--and I believe many of them do fit the bill you describe as the ideal. But too many remain silent when they see bias or excessive force playing out, which allowed the travesties we see to proliferate. I believe that it is this code of silence that has to be broken, that will help to change things for the better, or at least start the process. Then those with an axe to grind can be more easily weeded out or will find police work much less attractive.
After I read this article , I felt a deep feeling of anger because no one has the right of authority to put disturbing videos on YouTube or any social media to show how the police aren't doing their job correctly. They are because if a police officer tells you to get on the ground then get on the ground. I truly believe these videos are just made and shown for and to start ESCALATING violent encounters with treating blacks and whites equally. This has most DEFINITELY caused a war-zone within the three states in the U.S. like Cincinnati, North Carolina, South Carolina, ,and Waller County,Texas with three black victims and white suspects that are police officers.
1
Sounds like you favour sweeping the whole thing under the rug.
Would you feel the same if it was YOUR son or daughter who was lying dead after an encounter with a cop?
Would you feel the same if it was YOUR son or daughter who was lying dead after an encounter with a cop?
6
You are mistaking cause and effect.
"There is, however, no precise accounting of the number of people killed by police officers each year."
This is a national disgrace. Citizens should demand a "precise number" of how many people are killed each year by police. Included in this should be people -- criminals and innocent drivers/passersby alike -- who are killed by police chases. And innocent hostages who are killed by police like the young Hofstra student in Nassau County who was killed by an officer who rushed into a known hostage situation with gun drawn and fired off 8 bullets at the man who was holding the hostage in front of him as a human shield.
The more you let police "police" themselves, the more you will have citizens treated the way an occupying army treats citizens in other countries.
Oh, and how thoroughly did we rid our country of "civil asset forfeiture," aka "police thievery"? How about an article on whether or not this practice has been eliminated or just slightly tamed enough to keep it out of view for a while? American police are no better than police in the most corrupt third world countries. I tell my son (Asian) "Never trust the police. They will kill you if they can. They will steal from you if they can. Say 'no sir' and 'yes sir' not as a sign of respect, but as a sign of obeisance to placate them. They are allowed to get away with murder everywhere in this country. Don't rile them."
This is a national disgrace. Citizens should demand a "precise number" of how many people are killed each year by police. Included in this should be people -- criminals and innocent drivers/passersby alike -- who are killed by police chases. And innocent hostages who are killed by police like the young Hofstra student in Nassau County who was killed by an officer who rushed into a known hostage situation with gun drawn and fired off 8 bullets at the man who was holding the hostage in front of him as a human shield.
The more you let police "police" themselves, the more you will have citizens treated the way an occupying army treats citizens in other countries.
Oh, and how thoroughly did we rid our country of "civil asset forfeiture," aka "police thievery"? How about an article on whether or not this practice has been eliminated or just slightly tamed enough to keep it out of view for a while? American police are no better than police in the most corrupt third world countries. I tell my son (Asian) "Never trust the police. They will kill you if they can. They will steal from you if they can. Say 'no sir' and 'yes sir' not as a sign of respect, but as a sign of obeisance to placate them. They are allowed to get away with murder everywhere in this country. Don't rile them."
7
It matters not whether someone has an "attitude" toward police. It is absolutely no reason to shoot and kill someone for an "attitude". When we absolve murder because of a person's demeanor, then we as a society is condoning murder.
How many of us has given "attitude" to our parents? How many of us parents have gotten "attitude" from our kids? Did we murder them? Did we body slam them to the ground and tie them up?
If you can't see the similarity, then avoid offering us ill-advised statements.
How many of us has given "attitude" to our parents? How many of us parents have gotten "attitude" from our kids? Did we murder them? Did we body slam them to the ground and tie them up?
If you can't see the similarity, then avoid offering us ill-advised statements.
12
For whatever reason these stories always leave out the John Crawford shooting at a WalMart in Dayton. He was holding a toy rifle; someone called 911 saying he was saving it at people. Two cops show up and blow him away with barely any warning. So here you go: http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/sep/25/ohio-shooting-walmart...
9
Years ago it used to be that police were mostly good and basically honest and trusting. Today it is the complete opposite. Most police are dishonest, not trustworthy and the minority of them are good.
Now instead of 'questioning authority' we must 'record authority'.
I'd highly recommend we all start installing dashboard cameras in our cars for our own personal safety and legal protection against those who should ultimately be protecting us.
Now instead of 'questioning authority' we must 'record authority'.
I'd highly recommend we all start installing dashboard cameras in our cars for our own personal safety and legal protection against those who should ultimately be protecting us.
9
Body cameras are such a great idea... Not only will they capture the behavior of bad cops, cameras will also cause good cops to pause to think through their actions, knowing they are under scrutiny but most importantly they will offer a glimpse of the truly despicable bad characters that are causing our law enforcement professionals to be on edge....
The body cameras will also cover entire events versus the limited and often times edited versions that we get from individual cell phones..... The cell phone coverage we have seen is one-sided, we aren't seeing examples of the terriifying circumstances faced by our law enforcement professionals. I would love to see a balanced picture of what we ask our police officers to do, not just focus on the wing-nuts captured on these selected videos...
This is an innovation that the police should be embracing!
The body cameras will also cover entire events versus the limited and often times edited versions that we get from individual cell phones..... The cell phone coverage we have seen is one-sided, we aren't seeing examples of the terriifying circumstances faced by our law enforcement professionals. I would love to see a balanced picture of what we ask our police officers to do, not just focus on the wing-nuts captured on these selected videos...
This is an innovation that the police should be embracing!
5
I am a staunch supporter of the police and, as a retired prosecutor, worked with many (probably 99%) fine officers. There are, however, going to be unfit officers just as any large population of workers in any profession will inevitably contain some bad actors. As a 45 year old white man, a prosecutor, with an ID, I was rousted a couple of times myself by young hotheads who were more interested in establishing their authority than simply getting the facts. In one instance I was with my church group at the Tallahassee Civic Center. It was a church outing to see a minor league hockey game. I had come from work, so I was wearing a suit and tie. I purchased the tickets at the window and, as I handed them out, I was immediately confronted by a screaming idiot from the Tallahassee PD who accused me of "scalping tickets" and ordered me to leave the building. My group left the building and, in the parking lot, I resumed handing out the tickets, when the officer reappeared, slapped his sidearm and told me to leave the property. By this time I had sent someone for his supervisor and his superiors got him to shut up and listen....but what if I had not been a 45 year old white prosecutor in a suit-and-tie?
I always give my clients one basic rule: Do not argue your case with a cop. A cop is not a judge, and upsetting him is a no-win proposition. Just shut up, comply with instructions, and argue the case in court. You might lose, but you will never win on the street.
I always give my clients one basic rule: Do not argue your case with a cop. A cop is not a judge, and upsetting him is a no-win proposition. Just shut up, comply with instructions, and argue the case in court. You might lose, but you will never win on the street.
8
But don't you, of all people, see that "just shut up and comply with his instructions" is the problem? It is clear evidence that the police are not being trained properly. We employ the police to keep the peace, not act as hot-tempered vigilantes.
4
You seem like a good man. But your recommendation will allow us to slip into a police state because none of these bad cops will EVER be held to account.
The folks dying now are martyrs, unwitting it would seem except for Ms. Bland, but martyrs nonetheless.
The folks dying now are martyrs, unwitting it would seem except for Ms. Bland, but martyrs nonetheless.
No Bob, it is not the problem. There is a time and place to fight, and an intelligent person is not going to engage in no-win combat where, even if he lives to go to court, he has lost his case. You are making the same mistake that protesters often do. Again, a cop is going to be believed by that local judge who sees him 25 times a month, every month, or by a jury (should it come to that ) that looks favourably on the police. The last thing you want to do is look bad on the video or create a situation that hands the officer an excuse. It is not a matter of "surrender", it is called fighting intelligently rather than emotionally.
The great Joe Louis once commented on fighting in the ring, saying "if you get mad you lose."
The great Joe Louis once commented on fighting in the ring, saying "if you get mad you lose."
It seems that one of the common threads among all these videos it that the policeman became angry. And as soon as he became angry he used his gun (then lied about it -- but that's another issue). Anger management, anybody?
The cops keep saying that we must immediately do exactly as we're told or we deserve trouble. That sounds like totalitarianism to me.
The cops keep saying that we must immediately do exactly as we're told or we deserve trouble. That sounds like totalitarianism to me.
15
Yes, it is astonishing how many people are willing to accept the police as an occupying army. But we employ them. They follow *our* rules, and we can make those rules into whatever we like.
3
Bob Roberts: Be careful what you wish for. Yes, we make the rules. So what should those rules be? "Don't comply with a cop's lawful orders, if you don't feel like it"?
I submit that, under such a rule, it no longer would be the case that we can make the rules into whatever we like.
I submit that, under such a rule, it no longer would be the case that we can make the rules into whatever we like.
That is your false dichotomy, not mine.
A "lawful order" to put out a cigarette? Maybe we should reassess what constitutes a lawful order.
Or perhaps we should require the police to have a legitimate reason to command someone to exit their car, and to tell the citizen what that reason is?
Or possibly, we should require police to answer the questions "am I under arrest" and "what am I being arrested for?" at least once, when asked?
A "lawful order" to put out a cigarette? Maybe we should reassess what constitutes a lawful order.
Or perhaps we should require the police to have a legitimate reason to command someone to exit their car, and to tell the citizen what that reason is?
Or possibly, we should require police to answer the questions "am I under arrest" and "what am I being arrested for?" at least once, when asked?
All police should wear body cameras at all times. The behavior of police officers should not be tolerated. These may only be a few videos of abuse such as murder and intimidation. What is most striking is how the other LEO at the scene conspire with the murderer. They seem to lie as naturally as breathing and swear to the facts the murderer said happened. Each time a murder such as Walter Scott Tamir Rice and many others they lie not knowing there is video. This is happening all over the country so only a few were caught. One can only imagine the thousands of LEO that lie in court daily. These lies destroy lives and communities consider how the for profit prision system demands that the cells be filled. Cities and towns raise revenue by harrasing minorities and the poor with fines and tickets. These tactics are a direct result of the republican no tax increases. The money has to come from somewhere because the wealthy and business don't pay their fair share. The criminal justice system is the new slavery.
7
If our media and our politicians would stop talking in code about "those people" and "welfare queens," maybe your average joe who becomes a copy wouldn't have such a bad attitude.
But racism is alive and well in America, and not just in the South, as we have seen since Obama was elected President and Republicans from all over the country, including Alaska, Iowa and New York, questioned not only Obama's patriotism but even his birth to an American mother in Hawaii.
But racism is alive and well in America, and not just in the South, as we have seen since Obama was elected President and Republicans from all over the country, including Alaska, Iowa and New York, questioned not only Obama's patriotism but even his birth to an American mother in Hawaii.
5
I have yet to hear anyone in the media refer to any arrestee or victim as a "welfare queen". Furthermore, I find it amazing that legitimate criticism of Jimmy Carter or George Bush was OK, but if we dare to disagree with Obama we are suddenly "racist". It seems obvious to the adults on here that racism is a 2-way street. Those who legitimately condemn racism by white should not practice racism against whites and Asians at the same time.
Furthermore, those who blindly and robotically defend Obama cannot seem to look past his skin color. That is wrong, because pigment does not define a president. I wonder how many Obama-apologists would consider criticism of Idi Amin racist too.
Furthermore, those who blindly and robotically defend Obama cannot seem to look past his skin color. That is wrong, because pigment does not define a president. I wonder how many Obama-apologists would consider criticism of Idi Amin racist too.
Once you call into question the credibility of the police, you have opened a can of worms. I'd guess that half the convictions every year are largely based on officer testimony. Question this testimony across the board and American justice becomes an oxymoron.
While most of comments here focus on police behavior, and rightly so in most of these recent cases, the country also needs to have a serious discussion, without knee-jerk cries of racism, about the behavior of African-Americans in these high-profile incidents. In not one, with the exception of the poor child in Cleveland, does the African-American cooperate with police as the policemen initially speak in a civil and polite tone. If they had cooperated with officers who show no aggression at first, none of this would happen. Yes, we need better police training always, but we need a frank discussion about the massive civil disobedience in some parts of the black community for no other reason than they don't want to deal with the police after failing to maintain their cars or drive properly. I've been stopped by police numerous times and I'm white. If we've reached the point where we can't enforce any and all laws with various groups, society will collapse.
10
Hm. Knee-jerk cries of racism?
Can you find me a case where a police officer shot in the head a docile white driver because they started their engine but were otherwise non-threatening and compliant?
You may not realize this, but these events are only the most absurd and extreme of a whole bunch of absurd interactions that police officers have with black drivers. Black people know this from personal experience, but, as you can see from this forum, even in the most extreme and appalling cases, people bend over backwards to excuse the police officers.
The amount of denial of this problem is horrific and working against fixing this problem.
Trust me, there are plenty of conversations in the black community about complying with police as it is a matter of life and death in that community. That is not the real problem.
You know what destroys the fabric of society? When people can't trust their police officers to handle the most minor of interactions without resorting to deadly force.
Can you find me a case where a police officer shot in the head a docile white driver because they started their engine but were otherwise non-threatening and compliant?
You may not realize this, but these events are only the most absurd and extreme of a whole bunch of absurd interactions that police officers have with black drivers. Black people know this from personal experience, but, as you can see from this forum, even in the most extreme and appalling cases, people bend over backwards to excuse the police officers.
The amount of denial of this problem is horrific and working against fixing this problem.
Trust me, there are plenty of conversations in the black community about complying with police as it is a matter of life and death in that community. That is not the real problem.
You know what destroys the fabric of society? When people can't trust their police officers to handle the most minor of interactions without resorting to deadly force.
You have NO empathy.
Your advice amounts to this. Obey the white man and live. Disobey - no matter what the circumstances and risk death.
Has it occurred to you just how prevalent these incidents must have been in the past BEFORE cops knew they were being recorded. Has it occurred to you that this behavior of the police - which necessarily results in the disproportionate prosecution of blacks is a recipe for slow motion genocide.
But of course, if they just behaved....
Your advice amounts to this. Obey the white man and live. Disobey - no matter what the circumstances and risk death.
Has it occurred to you just how prevalent these incidents must have been in the past BEFORE cops knew they were being recorded. Has it occurred to you that this behavior of the police - which necessarily results in the disproportionate prosecution of blacks is a recipe for slow motion genocide.
But of course, if they just behaved....
Think of how many innocent people have been locked up and abused because of out of control cops who were not caught on video in the past. Perhaps video recordings and independent prosecutors will help weed out these dangerous cops in the future. Cops behaving badly is just another symptom of our entire society going down the drain.
4
Cameras provide data, evidence. That is a plus for the good guys and a threat to the bad guys. Whether they carry a badge or not, the camera does not care. Those who don't want to be caught on video committing a crime can always refrain from committing the crime.
Police should make the most of this negative publicity to call for security webcams to be installed throughout their cities. Cameras would reassure minorities they won't be abused by police, and also provide prosecutors with evidence for convicting everyday criminals.
Police should make the most of this negative publicity to call for security webcams to be installed throughout their cities. Cameras would reassure minorities they won't be abused by police, and also provide prosecutors with evidence for convicting everyday criminals.
4
Or the cops can turn off the camera......depends on your point of view, doesn't it?
“We don’t want to rush to judgment simply because of what the video shows,” says a prosecutor. “Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing,” says the police union.
And there you have it. It's "stop judging us by what you see and hear us doing on the videos (and by what black people have been telling you for decades). Instead, just take our word for it that we mostly perform our jobs up to the bare minimum level of professionalism you should expect in a first-world democracy. Start applauding and revering us for that. Remember NYPD Blue? That was a good show. Also, we like it when you call us all heroes."
And there you have it. It's "stop judging us by what you see and hear us doing on the videos (and by what black people have been telling you for decades). Instead, just take our word for it that we mostly perform our jobs up to the bare minimum level of professionalism you should expect in a first-world democracy. Start applauding and revering us for that. Remember NYPD Blue? That was a good show. Also, we like it when you call us all heroes."
3
It's funny--there is raging debate about how to reform police officialdom and tactics throughout the country so as to minimize brutal incidents of the sort now profiled by cameras. But hardly do I ever hear that we should reform along the lines of countries where incidents of police brutality are rare or almost non-existent. The Scandinavian countries and Japan have exemplary records of police comportment in their respective communities that go back decades. Why not take some cues from these nations in reforming police departments here at home?
But first, there really needs to be an deep-seated attitudinal change when it comes to deployment of police power here in the US, where civilians are seen as potential enemies to restrain at all costs. I recall visiting Madrid in 2007. There was a large parade/street festival in a central square of the city that I stumbled upon at around 9 pm one evening during my stay. Thousands were there. What struck me about this huge public gathering is how de-militarized it was. There were no barricades, no police officers with guns on every single corner, no police helicopters buzzing about in the skies (which is customary in NYC). In fact, I remember two sole officers standing there, chatting amicably with some festival goers. I was pleased that the Madrid police treated the public like the grown adults they were, hardly two years after the 2005 terrorist bombings in a central Madrid train station that killed dozens.
But first, there really needs to be an deep-seated attitudinal change when it comes to deployment of police power here in the US, where civilians are seen as potential enemies to restrain at all costs. I recall visiting Madrid in 2007. There was a large parade/street festival in a central square of the city that I stumbled upon at around 9 pm one evening during my stay. Thousands were there. What struck me about this huge public gathering is how de-militarized it was. There were no barricades, no police officers with guns on every single corner, no police helicopters buzzing about in the skies (which is customary in NYC). In fact, I remember two sole officers standing there, chatting amicably with some festival goers. I was pleased that the Madrid police treated the public like the grown adults they were, hardly two years after the 2005 terrorist bombings in a central Madrid train station that killed dozens.
1
I doubt we can learn anything from Japan or Scandinavian countries. "American Exceptionalism" gave all Americans the right to own guns, making each and everyone of us potential deadly threat to a cop.
3
To protect and serve, and to do so professionally, isn't a high bar. if it is, the wrong people are wearing badges. Accountability is good for everyone — citizens, police officers, the criminal justice system. The erosion of public trust is far, far worse for police officers than body and vehicle cameras will ever be.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
2
One fact stands out in my mind as I think about these videos: There seems to be a lack of police training about how to handle a situation in which there is no threat of violence from the citizen, yet there is a failure to obey police orders or an attempt to escape. The reaction elicited from the police from this sort of behavior is to move to greater force or lethal force. The Cincinnati guy tries to drive off, others mouth off, or don't do what they are told. Why is the automatic police reaction in these cases to reach for a gun and fire?
I don't know. Maybe it spillover from the training that says if an officer shoots at a criminal, the shot should be intended to kill. (And this rule, I believe, is a product of knowing that any shot fired CAN be lethal. My father was an expert marksman in the Army. The first rule he taught me about handling a gun was "Never point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at anyone you do not intend to kill.")
I don't know. Maybe it spillover from the training that says if an officer shoots at a criminal, the shot should be intended to kill. (And this rule, I believe, is a product of knowing that any shot fired CAN be lethal. My father was an expert marksman in the Army. The first rule he taught me about handling a gun was "Never point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at anyone you do not intend to kill.")
Why can't there be more psychological testing for potential police officers? Many aberrant, violent tendencies could be gleaned from testing BEFORE someone is considered for the force. These traits are ingrained in the person, not taught at the police academy. As I was told in medical school, compassion cannot be taught; it is either part of your personality or not.
3
I witnessed a NYPD cop lie under oath in traffic court the other day. It was truly disappointing and disgusting, All I can say, have a camera on at all times while in traffic, that is probably the only way to counter their word in court.
4
Many commentators have made good points on what the police need to do in their interaction with the public.
On the other side in so many of these publicized cases involve one or multiples of the following, resisting arrest, fleeing a stop, assaulting an officer. One of the biggest things Black leadership, from civil to religious, should do is educate their communities to be civil doing their interaction with police and any issues they have with the interaction resolve by civil and or legal means.
On the other side in so many of these publicized cases involve one or multiples of the following, resisting arrest, fleeing a stop, assaulting an officer. One of the biggest things Black leadership, from civil to religious, should do is educate their communities to be civil doing their interaction with police and any issues they have with the interaction resolve by civil and or legal means.
3
I don't see any of these things in this encounter. All Dubose did was start his engine.
The cop could have asked him to turn it off. Instead he chose to reach in the car, grab him and shoot him in the head.
It's appalling that you think the problem was Dubose. This kind of thinking just makes things worse.
The cop could have asked him to turn it off. Instead he chose to reach in the car, grab him and shoot him in the head.
It's appalling that you think the problem was Dubose. This kind of thinking just makes things worse.
The video makes the event more graphic and dramatic. Even explosive. In some cases it will show bad acts, even murders, by police. Examples include Eric Garner in NYC, Walter Scott in North Charleston, SC, and 12 year old Tamir Rice in Cleveland.
On the other hand, publicity-hungry district attorneys (think Mike Nifong in the Duke Lacrosse scandal) can use video to incite and pander to voters at the expense of justice. In particular, consider the case of Samuel DuBose, who was shot in Cincinatti. In that case, he had been pulled over by the police. The policeman was questioning him, he was evasive and then he turned on the ignition to escape. The policeman instantaneously shot him in the head. In my opinion, the policeman acted on reflex and shot a fleeing suspect who was in the process of starting a dangerous high-speed car chase on the streets or a residential neighborhood. Mr. DuBose was much more dangerous than the escaped upstate NY prisoner Mr. Matt who was shot in the back while he fled towards the woods. It would have been relatively easy to surround and capture the NY prisoner with a dragnet in the woods. Yet no one questions the NY trooper's decision to shoot Mr. Matt in the back.
So what we've got here is a district attorney using the video to score political points. There are many subtle implications and unintended outcomes of videos. Let's be careful out there.
On the other hand, publicity-hungry district attorneys (think Mike Nifong in the Duke Lacrosse scandal) can use video to incite and pander to voters at the expense of justice. In particular, consider the case of Samuel DuBose, who was shot in Cincinatti. In that case, he had been pulled over by the police. The policeman was questioning him, he was evasive and then he turned on the ignition to escape. The policeman instantaneously shot him in the head. In my opinion, the policeman acted on reflex and shot a fleeing suspect who was in the process of starting a dangerous high-speed car chase on the streets or a residential neighborhood. Mr. DuBose was much more dangerous than the escaped upstate NY prisoner Mr. Matt who was shot in the back while he fled towards the woods. It would have been relatively easy to surround and capture the NY prisoner with a dragnet in the woods. Yet no one questions the NY trooper's decision to shoot Mr. Matt in the back.
So what we've got here is a district attorney using the video to score political points. There are many subtle implications and unintended outcomes of videos. Let's be careful out there.
1
I meant Mr. David Sweat, not Mr. Matt, who was the first prisoner shot by police.
There is no way that you can say that he was turning on his engine to escape. He just started his engine. An appropriate response would have been to ask him to turn it off, not reach in the car to grab him and shoot him in the head.
Even if he did drive off, why would there be a high speed chase? Or any chase? For a missing front plate?
This is a lot of ridiculous suppositions. Why would you concoct such a wild tale?
You might want to take a moment for self reflection, as it stands it sounds like you are part of the problem.
Even if he did drive off, why would there be a high speed chase? Or any chase? For a missing front plate?
This is a lot of ridiculous suppositions. Why would you concoct such a wild tale?
You might want to take a moment for self reflection, as it stands it sounds like you are part of the problem.
I hope your family is as forgiving of the police as you are if you or one of your children were to be shot in the head under these circumstances.
What has happened to certain "people" in this country? You have lost your souls to fear of NOTHING but fear-mongering.
What has happened to certain "people" in this country? You have lost your souls to fear of NOTHING but fear-mongering.
Cameras or no cameras some police officers will misbehave. Misbehavior is probably enhanced by inherent disdain for black people among police officers. It is not a coincidence that the violent interactions we have observed have been between black people and police officers. I am sure police officers interact with white people but those interactions end with a simple caution. The inescapable conclusion is that some, probably a good number of police officers view black people as sub-human on whom they can pull guns without a second thought.
Police officers, unfortunate enough to be clearly caught on camera killing a black person, will be exonerated by grand juries also heavily populated by individuals with low opinion of black people. The killing of Eric Garner is a case in point.
Attitudes towards this subset of the American society must change before cameras can be truly useful.
Police officers, unfortunate enough to be clearly caught on camera killing a black person, will be exonerated by grand juries also heavily populated by individuals with low opinion of black people. The killing of Eric Garner is a case in point.
Attitudes towards this subset of the American society must change before cameras can be truly useful.
1
The cameras are adding immeasurably to our ability to get justice
when the police are involved, including--and maybe especially--
the video footage from citizen bystanders.
when the police are involved, including--and maybe especially--
the video footage from citizen bystanders.
3
The common pattern you will notice in all of these instances is that these people either broke the law and or resisted the orders of a police officer. As soon as you disrepect the law and the orders of police you are asking for trouble. It doesnt matter what your race is. If you struggle with a police officer you will certainly be arrested or worst case shot and killed. The message we need to send to Americans and the rest of the world is to obey the law and respect the Police who keep us safe. Remember, you are innocent unless proven guilty so don't give them a reason to harm you.
4
I don't think anyone disagrees with you that many of these people could have behaved more civilly toward the officer. The key question, however, is whether their behavior justified the officer killing them, and whether the standard for what constitutes good behavior is different when applied to black versus white people.
1
Oh, so we all have to fear the police, is that what you're saying? That we have to cower in fear by these armed bullies who are supposed to be protecting the public?
The common pattern in ALL traffic stops or any arrest, whatever the person's ethnicity, is that they are PERCEIVED by the officer to have broken the law. The emphasis is on the officer's assumption, not on fact. We have courts that determine innocence or guilt. The police are there to prevent apparent infractions of the law. Not to execute the law on the streets, with bullets.
The thing to remember is that when the police interact with someone, that moment is usually the worst part of a person's day, and if they're arrested, whether properly or not, it will become one, if not the, worst day of a person's life.
Ever been arrested? It's one of the most terrifying experiences you will ever have. The liberty you take for granted day in and day out is immediately destroyed. You feel as if you are going to die. As soon as, and even before, the police officer (or officers) places you under arrest and handcuffs you, you become an object to be pushed around. Even with officers who know their jobs, this is the case. You are presumed to be a criminal, whether or not you are guilty, and you are treated as less-than-human from that point forward.
I wonder how many white people are killed at simple traffic stops by white (or black) cops? Maybe we should find out. I'll bet the number is nearly zero.
The common pattern in ALL traffic stops or any arrest, whatever the person's ethnicity, is that they are PERCEIVED by the officer to have broken the law. The emphasis is on the officer's assumption, not on fact. We have courts that determine innocence or guilt. The police are there to prevent apparent infractions of the law. Not to execute the law on the streets, with bullets.
The thing to remember is that when the police interact with someone, that moment is usually the worst part of a person's day, and if they're arrested, whether properly or not, it will become one, if not the, worst day of a person's life.
Ever been arrested? It's one of the most terrifying experiences you will ever have. The liberty you take for granted day in and day out is immediately destroyed. You feel as if you are going to die. As soon as, and even before, the police officer (or officers) places you under arrest and handcuffs you, you become an object to be pushed around. Even with officers who know their jobs, this is the case. You are presumed to be a criminal, whether or not you are guilty, and you are treated as less-than-human from that point forward.
I wonder how many white people are killed at simple traffic stops by white (or black) cops? Maybe we should find out. I'll bet the number is nearly zero.
1
We need police to keep the peace and protect us, but these bad actors have been around too long. As I child in Virginia, an African-American friend told me whenever he saw a policeman in a car, he would pull over or turn to avoid him. This was 75 years ago--nothing has changed. In Ann Rule's book, Stranger at my Side, she mentions that some psychopaths choose police work. This travesty has got to stop.
3
Finally, we get to see inside the "Code Blue" of the bad apple cops. With video evidence police chiefs can finally do what they should have done years ago, fire these disgraceful officers.
What is sad,is that even when they know they being videoed, they still behave badly. They are that dumb and need to be fired!
What is sad,is that even when they know they being videoed, they still behave badly. They are that dumb and need to be fired!
3
In the second paragraph of this article the author states: "Those videos, all involving white officers and black civilians, have become ingrained in the nation’s consciousness — to many people, as evidence of bad police conduct. And while they represent just a tiny fraction of police behavior — those that show respectful, peaceful interactions do not make the 24-hour cable news..." Well the problem with this statement is that millions of violent police encounters — especially involving Black and Brown men and women — go unreported. Stop and frisk is still routine in the Black and Brown communities across this country. The police shove and arm twist and search the pockets of folks for the "crime" of just walking down the street while Black. This harassment and bad treatment by police goes on every day and goes unreported because it's so common and routine. Whites simply do not experience this treatment on a daily basis. I've never been stopped and frisked. But my African American nephews have, repeatedly; and it continues unabated! It has to STOP NOW! Be real, the police are far more interested in protecting private property than human life!
1
Bonnie, please provide some data if you have it re the "millions" of violent encounters that go unreported. You do realize that "millions go unreported" suggests that there is no data and no way to prove your point. But please, feel free to share.
Is the evidence showing that black officers don't kill people unjustly? If so, I think it's important to point this out.
4
No one has said body cameras are a panacea. THAT's a red herring.
Better to see SOMEthing than nothing. Better to have witness testimony from THREE sides than just two.
And the red herring "issues": how to pay for cams (nix tanks and rocket launchers from the budget), how much discretion to turn them on/off (NONE!), when to make videos public (as soon as appropriate!), privacy of victims (blurr out their faces - the crime also "belongs" to the public - we are vested in its prevention and correction!). These so-called issues are so easily manageable, mere mention of them reveals the desire to keep operating with impunity behind that stinking blue wall that GOOD cops hide behind as well!
No, put light on the subject. Let us SEE these public servants doing the jobs we pay them to do but have "discovered recently" they have been abusing! Doing so is smart. Again, not a panacea but, a prudent and reasonable step to address a flaming issue: police abuse and cover-up!
Better to see SOMEthing than nothing. Better to have witness testimony from THREE sides than just two.
And the red herring "issues": how to pay for cams (nix tanks and rocket launchers from the budget), how much discretion to turn them on/off (NONE!), when to make videos public (as soon as appropriate!), privacy of victims (blurr out their faces - the crime also "belongs" to the public - we are vested in its prevention and correction!). These so-called issues are so easily manageable, mere mention of them reveals the desire to keep operating with impunity behind that stinking blue wall that GOOD cops hide behind as well!
No, put light on the subject. Let us SEE these public servants doing the jobs we pay them to do but have "discovered recently" they have been abusing! Doing so is smart. Again, not a panacea but, a prudent and reasonable step to address a flaming issue: police abuse and cover-up!
6
The police are not the real problem. They are our fists, our rods. Their numbers are drawn from our citizens. Their attitudes reflect ours. They behave in a way we condone. They are who we are. Our society is a terrorized and belligerent one, prone to demonizing and punishing. We are always at war. War on Iraq, War on Drugs. War and more war. We don't believe that mere studious labor merits a "living wage". We don't promote equality for our citizens. We incarcerate a greater percentage of our people than any other Western country. We torture. We are armed to the teeth. We are a fearful, angry people. Our police forces behave accordingly.
3
Right on, Student, and well said. We are the most violent country on Earth. What do we expect?
Everyone has varying degrees of biases and prejudices and police officers are no different. Not to justify some of the recent actions of police officers. Some of those were obvious bad decisions, but others were overly scrutinized without taking into account the full context of the situation.
There is no other job in America where someone is held under such a limelight. Officers are asked to be protectors of life and property, caretakers of the community, friendly, respectful, courageous, just and truthful. Lying under oath will get you fired from this job, the same cannot even be said about the President of the United States.
It is a sad state when society begins to condemn police officers as a whole based upon a few bad choices by select officers. No civilization can function without law enforcement. Unfortunately a larger portion of people are demanding more and more restrictions and requirements of officers all while propagating less and less adherence to the laws these officers are asked to uphold.
There is no other job in America where someone is held under such a limelight. Officers are asked to be protectors of life and property, caretakers of the community, friendly, respectful, courageous, just and truthful. Lying under oath will get you fired from this job, the same cannot even be said about the President of the United States.
It is a sad state when society begins to condemn police officers as a whole based upon a few bad choices by select officers. No civilization can function without law enforcement. Unfortunately a larger portion of people are demanding more and more restrictions and requirements of officers all while propagating less and less adherence to the laws these officers are asked to uphold.
5
Come on --- bashing cops is fun. Read the comments here or read Charles Blow. You don't need to understand that the data doesn't support the progressive lie that cops are racist violent ignorant etc. All you have to do is believe the narrative, facts don't matter.
Of course, one would think readers of the august NY Times would be clearer thinkers, but obviously not. And hey, bashing cops, whites, southerners, great fun. Makes me feel good about how wonderful and unprejudiced and enlightened I am. Yeah me.
Of course, one would think readers of the august NY Times would be clearer thinkers, but obviously not. And hey, bashing cops, whites, southerners, great fun. Makes me feel good about how wonderful and unprejudiced and enlightened I am. Yeah me.
Of course, but a big part of the problem is that police officers cover up and lie for each other when these incidents happen. It was caught on tape in the Cincinnati shooting. Contrary to what you say, lying won't get you fired -- it's standard operating procedure. Until cops are willing to hold each other accountable and weed out the bad, dangerous players, they're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.
The problem is not "a few bad apples". The problem is cultural. The common thread in these events is police who are using the threat of force to defend themselves against... insult. They have come to believe that they are owed complete supplication by the citizens they are employed to protect. And when they cross the line, they lie in their reports and their co-workers lie to help them. They are abetted by other authoritarians who believe that complete obedience is the answer: if we sit quietly in the corner, maybe the bully won't see us.
This seems a complex issue. To begin, I am a 73 year old white woman who has been stopped by police several times during my life. Most have been for speeding, but a recent stop was for pulling out in front of a car that had to put on its breaks to let me enter the road. In all stops I was respectful and even acted a bit sorry. In one instance, I pleaded ignorance. Of course, I was scared. Scared that I'd have to pay a ticket and scared that I might have to pay a higher premium for insurance. NEVER was I afraid for my life. But then I live in a largely white area. I really don't know how blacks have been persecuted by police over the years. Certainly these videos could be the tip of the iceberg in revealing threatening behavior by police. But I have also seen very uncooperative behavior by those being stopped. I would never have acted the way these people, most of whom were killed, did. They were argumentative and/or non compliant and from what I saw they contributed to the escalation of the situation. But so did the police. The police were the "grown-ups" who should have been trained and acted in ways to de-escalate the situation. It would be interesting to know more about past relationships between blacks and the police. Blacks, might have a real reason to be belligerent, fear and possibly flee. I'm glad to see the videos of what is happening now. Maybe they will foster a better relationship between blacks and police.
Perceptions can shift and often reflect what best serves a purpose. The issues here seem to be police, unnecessary violence, poverty and racism. What we aren't addressing are police, training and the realities of making split second decisions, most of these decisions not winding up being video taped or on the news. We also aren't looking at our culture of violence and we aren't looking at how much these negatives serve to benefit many. It is easier to point fingers at specific individuals who wind up capturing the spotlight for some moments than it is to address some of the larger issues that no one wants to speak to, We need to start a dialog in the home, in the community, in the counties and states so that this nation can demonstrate some of the most important principles it is supposed to be founded on...for all. I fear many of the current perceptions about policing simply serve as a smoke screen, keeping us dull, passionate and unable to look, discuss, compromise and resolve big issues we avoiding. It serves to divide, recklessly.
There's more of a problem here than I'd have realized if not for these videos. I've seen/heard of situations where criminals say that they were "doing nothing" when police drove up & began to question them. According to the criminal, he was "just walking down the street minding my own business", but according to the crime victim or witness, he robbed her or stole a package off a porch, and then was "just walking down the street" right after that. So, given what I've observed over the years about criminals' tendency to lie, I would have little reason to believe the criminal and suspect the police of being the liars.
However, these videos help show that in many situations police dangerously escalate a problem. Or they bristle at the contempt with which they are treated and are tempted to execute someone for showing that contempt for their authority. I am not opposed to police making stops for minor violations, since I know that police often apprehend wanted criminals, or are able to keep track of problematic felons, based on making stops for minor violations.
In most of these cases, the victim of police brutality/murder was resisting arrest, uncooperative, or abusive towards police -- I can understand anger in response to feeling picked on, but , although we have to expect better than the appalling behavior by police seen in these videos, I think people also need to take responsibility for their own uncooperative/abusive behavior towards police.
However, these videos help show that in many situations police dangerously escalate a problem. Or they bristle at the contempt with which they are treated and are tempted to execute someone for showing that contempt for their authority. I am not opposed to police making stops for minor violations, since I know that police often apprehend wanted criminals, or are able to keep track of problematic felons, based on making stops for minor violations.
In most of these cases, the victim of police brutality/murder was resisting arrest, uncooperative, or abusive towards police -- I can understand anger in response to feeling picked on, but , although we have to expect better than the appalling behavior by police seen in these videos, I think people also need to take responsibility for their own uncooperative/abusive behavior towards police.
What these videos illustrate is just how stupid most people are when dealing with the police. Instead of saying 'Yes sir" and complying with the requests of the officers, most people come back with an attitude or and outright refusal to do what the officers tell them to do. Non-confrontational circumstances quickly become confrontational. do what the cop tells you to do. He has full control and authority. Any lip from you will only make the situation worse.
2
You are describing what goes on in a police state. The citizenry have no rights, and the police have all the firepower. And do you believe someone should be killed for talking back to a cop? Do we lose all of our rights once we've been stopped? The right to speak? The right to disagree? The right to be treated like a human being, and not the subject of a ridiculous interrogation or a deliberate provocation?
Granted, the person in the car may not have been as responsive as the officer would have liked, but his approach toward this person was completely condescending. He approached the man as if he were an idiot, someone less-than-human who deserved to be treated like a child. I can think of half a dozen ways he could have approached this man that would have elicited a much more cooperative response. This cop was trigger-happy or that gun would not have been fired so quickly. The body camera doesn't show what the encounter looked like from the motorist's point of view ... that cop could have had his hand on the butt of his gun throughout the entire encounter, and that might have caused the man in the car to feel uneasy.
Granted, the person in the car may not have been as responsive as the officer would have liked, but his approach toward this person was completely condescending. He approached the man as if he were an idiot, someone less-than-human who deserved to be treated like a child. I can think of half a dozen ways he could have approached this man that would have elicited a much more cooperative response. This cop was trigger-happy or that gun would not have been fired so quickly. The body camera doesn't show what the encounter looked like from the motorist's point of view ... that cop could have had his hand on the butt of his gun throughout the entire encounter, and that might have caused the man in the car to feel uneasy.
Just as these videos have shifted the public's view of police trustworthiness they have shifted the view of the media (for the worse) and the perception of the amount of real, conscious racism in police forces. I have seen obnoxious over-reporting, especially by CNN and our local news, of incidents where the police were clearly not acting in the wrong but the person was a minority. In a recent case here in Denver the media ate up the case of an LGBT woman who was shot trying to run over an officer with her car. Why is the Sandra Bland case getting so much attention? Sadly this kind of thing happens all the time to whites blacks etc. Stop covering these incidents in a way that trivializes real concerns of racism or you will turn public opinion in the opposite direction.
3
Video/audio is an essential element of the checks and balances that we need in viewing police (and public) behaviour and enforcing accountability but it is not a panacea. Even more important is the need to reform recruitment and training practices for all police forces in America - a tall order in such a decentralized system of law enforcement. There are still way too many people walking (or more likely riding) around in a police uniform who are temperamentally unfit for the job - more than many of us previously thought possible, but probably fewer than the most vociferous critics of the police believe. We can start by weeding out those officers who are reacting to this new and welcome scrutiny by not doing the job we pay them to do.
1
It seems citizens are expected to simply accept that video proves nothing if an officer's report is in conflict with the video. You know, "Who you going to believe me or your lying eyes?". What the FOP is unable or unwilling to address is that their members know who steps over the line BUT officers will come forward with evidence. We've now seen video from various jails where handcuffed person is thrown to the ground face first and suffers broken bones. The report says something like prisoner was taken to the ground. I suppose that Freddie Gray was, somehow, taken to the ground, resulting in that "unfortunate accident" of death while in custody. If the FOP wants public support, other than from outright racists, they are going to have to earn it. They haven't started that process.
2
I live in an all white area of the San Francisco Peninsula and find that the policing here is a disgrace. Given that the only crime here is white collar crime, our local constabulary spends all its time trying to entrap motorists for minor infractions, presumably to supplement their pension fund from the fines. Exit the 101 freeway at Broadway in Burlingame and you will find there's a policeman hiding in the AAA gas station waiting to ticket anyone turning left onto California Avenue, hardly a life threatening event. But go to the Burlingame police station to file a complaint about an abandoned car and you are met with derision and rudeness.
One has to question why we have a police force at all. A few school crossing guards would do.
One has to question why we have a police force at all. A few school crossing guards would do.
3
Being a police officer is becoming more and more difficult every passing day. With the widespread use of smartphones across our country anything and everything is capable of making it onto the internet for millions of people to see. Therefore, the room for error among any organization is closing rapidly, including our law enforcement agencies. I for one, am willing to trust our law enforcement because I believe that trust is needed on both sides for us to function properly. Many people do not agree with that and I understand where they are coming from but I do not believe that developing a hatred for law enforcement is the solution. There are corrupt law enforcement agents, yes, i'm aware of that but if we as a society view the police as "bad" people that will deter any honest man who would like to join the police force from signing up. Also, I agree with the idea that police officers should never hesitate to fire their weapon in any situation where someones life is in danger, if an officer fears being charged for murder and decides to not fire his weapon then someone is still going to die; either the perpetrator or a victim. Now, to address the body camera issue. I do not see the issue of requiring policemen to wear a body camera because they should conduct themselves in the same manner, not saying that all will but on paper that's how it would work. Policemen are humans, they will make good-faith mistakes. The question is, is our society able to accept that?
2
Here is my public service announcement to people of all colors:
If you are stopped by the police, you should pull over, turn your motor off, roll your window down, place both hands on the wheel, comply with all directions and answer as politely as you can.
Later, after you are sent on your way, you may choose to contact both a criminal and civil attorney to fight the ticket in court and/or pursue a harassment claim and damages, and even contact the media.
If you do, you will have the whole world (including me) in your corner.
But if you choose to let your ego and unchecked emotions rule the day, you do have my sympathy, as a juror or supporter or a witness.
Most people figure these things out instinctively.
If you are stopped by the police, you should pull over, turn your motor off, roll your window down, place both hands on the wheel, comply with all directions and answer as politely as you can.
Later, after you are sent on your way, you may choose to contact both a criminal and civil attorney to fight the ticket in court and/or pursue a harassment claim and damages, and even contact the media.
If you do, you will have the whole world (including me) in your corner.
But if you choose to let your ego and unchecked emotions rule the day, you do have my sympathy, as a juror or supporter or a witness.
Most people figure these things out instinctively.
2
Spoken like a privileged white guy.
The problem here will not be solved by putting camera's on officers and other half measures. The police are only one part of the equation. The other half of equation is DA's (district attorney) office. The DA is responsible for presenting evidence to a grand jury who then makes a decision on weather to charge the suspect with specific crimes or not. I just got out of serving grand jury duty and while I am forbidden from discussing specifics of case's I can say that the DA stacked the deck on almost every case (we presided over 32 in two weeks). While this action was appropriate in some of the cases, in most instances it was not. There are multiple reasons for this behavior, regardless of the motivation behind this tactic there are negative effects then positive. We were told that the burden of proof needed for a indictment is less then in that of an actual trail, as long as a crime was committed and there is a reasonable suspicion that this person committed it we had to charge them. That a suspects age and other information was not relevant to the case. The DA has total control of what evidence is and is not presented to a grand jury. When an officer kills a suspect, the DA's office has only to present a weak case with confusing instructions in order to ensure the officer is not charged. The DA's office need's an overhaul as much as the police force.
3
Every time one of these videos comes out, we should spend time grieving the thousands of people who faced jail time or death over lies, when their own testimony wasn't considered believable.
It's not just police violence, either. Remember a few years back, when Bronx narcotics officers planted evidence on something like 150 people (in order to up their arrest quotas) -- and it took about seven years and over 100 people in jail before any of those people was believed?
And we wonder why some people in those communities don't take law enforcement seriously? The police create their relationship with these communities by their behavior.
It's not just police violence, either. Remember a few years back, when Bronx narcotics officers planted evidence on something like 150 people (in order to up their arrest quotas) -- and it took about seven years and over 100 people in jail before any of those people was believed?
And we wonder why some people in those communities don't take law enforcement seriously? The police create their relationship with these communities by their behavior.
4
I would suggest that the perpetrators also contribute to that "relationship".
Police officers are required to wear high visibility clothing except at some (rare) traffic stops. Because they NEVER wear high visibility clothing they think they don't have to follow the law. Look at TV of other countries.
When police officers are required to obey the law like the rear of us, then things may change.
When police officers are required to obey the law like the rear of us, then things may change.
1
Not to minimize the role of racism, I want to point out that I as a 70-year-old white male, have had various encounters with police where police authority was clearly abused. The problem goes beyond racism. Better training and better screening at the time of hiring would help. There are too many cops with aggressive personalities. Also there are way too many victimless crimes on the books which inevitably bring the police into unnecessary conflict with citizens.
1
There is no supply without demand. It is unfortunately overlooked that unnecessary and overblown escalating of incidences occur to purposely make a mountain out a molehill for the sake of job security and collecting revenue. Driving up arrests give the public the perception they are not safe which leads to the hiring of more officers or at least maintaining the status quo. This is why departments shun an efficient community policing model in favor of adversarial policing.
2
Anyone with an agenda can make just about any point with just about any information. These recorded acts are terrible, but the few actions by a few people do justify the condemnation of the entire system. There are thousands of police/civilian interactions every day that end positively.
8
Yes positively for white folks. Ask the blacks and then we will know the truth.
I'm sorry, but what? Are you seriously suggesting that police deserve praise because they don't usually murder unarmed Americans over minor traffic violations?
I do agree that police often escalate tension and conflict rather than diffusing it, and some do have an air of entitlement, but at the same time I don't think many of us truly understand what they face every day. Remember that when the police backed off in New York and Baltimore - as many protesters asked that they do - murders went through the roof. Baltimore had its most violent weekend in 35 years. So if you're asking why police sometimes behave the way they do, there's your answer. They're the ones standing between us and the criminals. Furthermore, ask yourself who your first phone call is going to be if you feel threatened or if you're home at night and your house is being broken into. Answer: the police. Lastly, yes, there are some pretty disturbing incidents that have happened recently, but not only do we seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions - the woman who died in Texas did apparently commit suicide - I also think that had I did what Michael Brown did in Ferguson, I would have received the same treatment, and I'm white as can be.
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of police interactions with civilians every day in this country, and we see something maybe once a month that is clearly a criminal act on the part of the police. We can't expect perfection. The vast, overwhelming majority of police officers in this country are upstanding people, people who would give their lives for you and I because it's their job. Let's not forget that.
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of police interactions with civilians every day in this country, and we see something maybe once a month that is clearly a criminal act on the part of the police. We can't expect perfection. The vast, overwhelming majority of police officers in this country are upstanding people, people who would give their lives for you and I because it's their job. Let's not forget that.
5
I see a few different sides to this.
First off, without video footage of police/civilian interaction, cops can write up whatever they please in their 'reports'. So in that sense, videos have been able to bring to light, certain rogues cops who otherwise would have remained undiscovered.
We need better cop training, particularly with regards to emotional intelligence, and how to handle tense situations. We also need better screening and hiring processes for cops. It seems nowadays, 'anybody' can become a cop so long as they pass a written test. Surely we should be a bit more selective in to whom we give such a powerful badge, and a gun?
On the flip side though, I understand how hard it is for cops, and especially in instances where the cop is white, and the civilian black, that once you add in an audience, and especially one where multiple people are essentially in the cop's face with their phone cams, that this fact in and of itself can intensify the situation. I'm all for videotaping cop/civilian interactions, but there is a way for civilians to do it calmly, without it being in the form of a 'challenge' to the cops and their actions. There's no point in multiple people standing around a scene, and all whipping their cameras out in full view of the cops. And similarly, cops must allow this videotaping to occur and not try to interfere with it.
First off, without video footage of police/civilian interaction, cops can write up whatever they please in their 'reports'. So in that sense, videos have been able to bring to light, certain rogues cops who otherwise would have remained undiscovered.
We need better cop training, particularly with regards to emotional intelligence, and how to handle tense situations. We also need better screening and hiring processes for cops. It seems nowadays, 'anybody' can become a cop so long as they pass a written test. Surely we should be a bit more selective in to whom we give such a powerful badge, and a gun?
On the flip side though, I understand how hard it is for cops, and especially in instances where the cop is white, and the civilian black, that once you add in an audience, and especially one where multiple people are essentially in the cop's face with their phone cams, that this fact in and of itself can intensify the situation. I'm all for videotaping cop/civilian interactions, but there is a way for civilians to do it calmly, without it being in the form of a 'challenge' to the cops and their actions. There's no point in multiple people standing around a scene, and all whipping their cameras out in full view of the cops. And similarly, cops must allow this videotaping to occur and not try to interfere with it.
2
On the topic of recording police behavior on video: Police who are acting appropriately and professionally should have nothing to hide. It is our civil right to record police interactions in public places. Whether or not filming police is seen as inflammatory is beside the point. It is legal and helps protect citizens from violent encounters with law enforcement. Voluntarily giving up the right to practice citizen journalism is just like giving up any 4th amendment right. Keep the cameras rolling.
Sad to say law enforcement officers in America (USA) are out of control. Officers lack training, management and oversight. Body cams and other video sources are showing the "tip of the iceberg" to a larger systemic situation. Law enforcement have abandoned a key core value - serve the public ethically.
Local courts will actually collude with law enforcement eliminating impartiality. Law enforcement officers will actively retaliate against people who question their integrity - I can prove this statement via court transcripts and photo evidence. Local governments will actually turn a blind eye to citizen(s) raising concerns about law enforcement behavior opting instead to "pocket" fines to city coffers.
Lastly local cash strapped news publications no longer act as watch dog over law enforcement / local government conduct.
Crandell, Flagstaff Arizona
Local courts will actually collude with law enforcement eliminating impartiality. Law enforcement officers will actively retaliate against people who question their integrity - I can prove this statement via court transcripts and photo evidence. Local governments will actually turn a blind eye to citizen(s) raising concerns about law enforcement behavior opting instead to "pocket" fines to city coffers.
Lastly local cash strapped news publications no longer act as watch dog over law enforcement / local government conduct.
Crandell, Flagstaff Arizona
3
Police are trained to use guns, to control people, crowds, and many other techniques of law enforcement. What is evident and now highly visible to the public is that too many policemen seem to have no training in human EMPATHY. These senseless killings are a clear demonstration that the whole approach to police training needs to be seriously rethought.
2
Over the years I have know several police officers and frankly when they are being candid they acknowledge that there are bad apples in many departments, that there is racial prejudice and that the reality is that any citizen of any social or economic rank, skin color or racial and ethnic background (but especially person with black skin) takes his or her life in their hand when they stand up for their rights with certain officers. The reality is that "contempt of cop" is considered just provocation for all manner of police misconduct by some officers. This must change.
4
I understand that we see bad news most of the time. That means we rarely hear about the police officers who save someone or help a person turn his or her life around by caring or being a good cop. But, as a white woman who is part of the white majority, I was lucky enough to grow up trusting the police. As an adult I have watched the police change from "regular" people who enforced the law to arrogant, aggressive, angry, demanding, and disrespectful people who take offense at the slightest thing. If this is how they behaved all along with blacks and other minorities we whites were very lucky.
Police can be a force for good or oppression in any city, state, or county in America. Maybe America needs to look more closely at how it views potential criminals, those who have an attitude for whatever reason, and the military atmosphere police train and work in. The military expects unquestioning obedience. Society does not. The military uses aggression to enforce the rules. Society is not supposed to. When a military mindset interacts with a civilian mindset the result should not be death for one or the other. It should not leave us feeling like we're in imminent danger of death if we ask questions, state our rights, or refuse to allow them to search us based upon our rights as citizens. Today's police seem to have forgotten how to interact with society except through force, guns, and bullying.
Police can be a force for good or oppression in any city, state, or county in America. Maybe America needs to look more closely at how it views potential criminals, those who have an attitude for whatever reason, and the military atmosphere police train and work in. The military expects unquestioning obedience. Society does not. The military uses aggression to enforce the rules. Society is not supposed to. When a military mindset interacts with a civilian mindset the result should not be death for one or the other. It should not leave us feeling like we're in imminent danger of death if we ask questions, state our rights, or refuse to allow them to search us based upon our rights as citizens. Today's police seem to have forgotten how to interact with society except through force, guns, and bullying.
3
Yes, they have always treated minorities this way.
But you are right that there has also been a change. The militarization of the police is one factor.
Another factor is rampant steroid abuse. All of the roid rage isn't helping matters.
Finally, you have a generation of cops who are kids of cops. They are not much like their working-class dads (who had faults aplenty, but cowardice was rarely one). They were instead raised playing video-games in all-white, middle-class burbs, in neighborhoods and families where most of the dads are cops, viewing the rest of the city and its people as the scary other. These kids join the force, go on the streets, and think they are rolling into Mogadishu. They bulk up, suit up, lock and load, shock and awe... and are so amped up that they view eye contact as a threat to life and limb.
But you are right that there has also been a change. The militarization of the police is one factor.
Another factor is rampant steroid abuse. All of the roid rage isn't helping matters.
Finally, you have a generation of cops who are kids of cops. They are not much like their working-class dads (who had faults aplenty, but cowardice was rarely one). They were instead raised playing video-games in all-white, middle-class burbs, in neighborhoods and families where most of the dads are cops, viewing the rest of the city and its people as the scary other. These kids join the force, go on the streets, and think they are rolling into Mogadishu. They bulk up, suit up, lock and load, shock and awe... and are so amped up that they view eye contact as a threat to life and limb.
1
James Pasco, the executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police [said], “Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
That's goal: zero claims of wrong doing. And that can start with police doing what police should do: busting their buddies when they see them doing things wrong, and telling the truth when a wrong-doing buddy tries to get them involved by conspiring to tell a lie.
Clearly the best way to do it is:
BODY CAMS ON EVERY POLICE OFFICER AT ALL TIMES.
As long as they do their jobs, there will be no problem on either side of the equation.
That's goal: zero claims of wrong doing. And that can start with police doing what police should do: busting their buddies when they see them doing things wrong, and telling the truth when a wrong-doing buddy tries to get them involved by conspiring to tell a lie.
Clearly the best way to do it is:
BODY CAMS ON EVERY POLICE OFFICER AT ALL TIMES.
As long as they do their jobs, there will be no problem on either side of the equation.
1
Contrary to the statements of some of the experts cited, the early evidence regarding the deterrent effect of body cameras is stunning. In particular, the statistics from the Oakland (California) Police Department show that after the department-wide introduction of body cameras shootings decreased from eight a year to none for 18 months (June 2013 to December 2014) with similar dramatic reductions in the overall use of force. See my May 11 Los Angeles Times Op-Ed re the benefits of body cameras:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-muller-body-camera-data-shows...
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-muller-body-camera-data-shows...
2
The cameras are a good start, and yes as stated in the article the large percentage of police officers carry out their duty in a civil and respectful manner. What has become apparent however is that there are far too many officers who do not posses the maturity, demeanor and training to de-escalate situations and are in fact the root cause of the encounter ending up in a civilian death when there was no good reason for this to happen. The real root of the problem is improper vetting, inadequate training and in some police forces an attitude of us versus them. If police didn't close ranks to protect their own rather than seeing justice is carried out would go a long way in restoring public faith in the police which is crucial for a civil society.
4
The police have become increasingly brutal and abusive of citizens rights as the US has become a more unequal society. No coincidence. The police are part of the state's repressive apparatus and the state is run for the benefit of the .1%. Routine traffic stops may result in death for the poor, and possession of small amounts of narcotics often result in lengthy prison terms. At the same time, Wall Street speculators who wrecked the global economy through irresponsible (and criminal) risk-taking remain free to enjoy their ill gotten gains. The new normal.
5
I hate to make everything into a partisan issue (and I don't on a personal level), but where are the Republicans calling for "limited government" when it comes to unnecessarily shooting down people in the streets? Why are their voices silent? Where are the Republican presidential candidates on these issues, hiding out?
4
Regarding the C-Span of the Streets title: I don't think C-Span really captures it. Brian Lamb was too reflective, calm and collected. These videos are more like the Breitbart of the Streets or the James O'Keefe Videos of Official Illegality by Government Employees. You know, showing what the politicians and police generally don't want the public to see.
1
In this article, it states a rather interesting claim. It brings up the point that there are a million interactions that police have with the public, and that “in a vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing”. Of course, a majority of officers respect their jobs and do an amazing job of protecting those they are sworn to oath to do so. However some cops abuse the power they are given, they let the badge and the gun get to their heads and it really shows with the cases mentioned in the article. A wise man once said “With great power comes great responsibility”. I feel as if police officers need to take this quote almost as a daily mantra (okay maybe that’s too far…). However I feel that all cases of police brutality is attributed to the abuse of power. We don’t need people like that protecting us, we need responsible individuals who realize the power they have and not let it get to their heads. Police stations need to be able to weave out the ones that would abuse their power so they don’t harm those they are supposed to protect. I’m really happy to see that there was justice served in Samuel DuBose’s case, how the “officer” was promptly fired and charged with murder. The same goes for the other cases mentioned in the article, such as Walter Scott and Freddie Grey. But how about Sandra Bland? It seems that the "officer" clearly abused his power yet nothing has come of him yet. He needs to be outed as soon as possible to protect us. We trust them.
4
SO glad police are starting to wear body armor because now we can see how aggressively and disobedient blacks act towards our police officers. Many black males have over and over proven themselves to be untrustworthy and violent people. Crime stats don't lie! The security bars on the windows and doors of many homes speak a thousand words and paints a picture of life living within black communities. Our officers do not have the luxury of placing security bars on their bodies for protection. Historical crime data and the continuous death threats made by blacks towards our police officers Its obvious they do not handle being told what to do well so of course minor traffic stops escalate. If you disrespect an officer than you will get disrespect in return. If you give respect than you will get respect in return. If you keep lying by saying you "aint doing nothing wrong" when you have an open bottle of liquor in your vehicle and don't want to provide id either than of course you will be asked to step outside of your vehicle. And officers will always take more precaution with individuals who are acting aggressive or suspicious. Plain and simple!
2
I hope in the future, I can tell my kids that the differences between a criminal with a gun and a law enforcement officer will be the "protect and serve people" person is the one with the always on camera and the bad person is the scary one with a gun hides in the shadows and bogus laws. This is why I respect and admire the press, their eyes and cameras always on.
There are many people who face disrespect insults and violence in their work to help others--including emergency room personnel, social workers. If you take away the violence and just include extreme rudeness/insults, you would cover most professions that deal with the general public. The recent viral video of a NYC parking lot attendant having to take fifteen minutes of verbal vomit from an angry woman is only one example. Yet none of these people carry guns or would be given any leeway if they did shoot someone. No emergency room nurse is going to be given a pass for deliberately letting someone die just because he threatened and spit at her (which happens all the time). Police in most cities make a very good salary. They are trained. There is no excuse for these recent deaths--or many of the others whose details we can never be sure of.
6
I believe what we are seeing is a selective view of what's happening. With the tens of thousands of police and citizen encounters it is not surprising that you are able to pick whatever you need to support your opinion. Perhaps it would be better to include the statics of all encounters to put everything into context of the event. For example, how many encounters, where they occurred, the crime rate in the areas of the encounters, etc. This paints a realistic picture of what is really happening.
Nothing excuses bad behavior however the news as it is reported is the norm rather than the exception
Nothing excuses bad behavior however the news as it is reported is the norm rather than the exception
1
I'm glad to see cameras in wider use, and I think all police officers should have them. Police organizations should also find ways to improve selection and training of recruits.
That being said, when I see a lot of piling on, I start to become concerned. I don't have any more idea what it's like to be a cop than I know what it's like to grow up black in an inner city neighborhood. But before we start sermonizing on the 'problems' with the urban poor or the 'problems' with police/citizen interactions, we need to understand what parts of human nature results in the choices they make.
The media is the best tool to help us understand the choices made by the people around us. Rather than stories about bad guys and innocent victims, I would be interested in seeing more in-depth articles about why people make the choices they make. Maybe then, we could better develop ways to address those problems.
That being said, when I see a lot of piling on, I start to become concerned. I don't have any more idea what it's like to be a cop than I know what it's like to grow up black in an inner city neighborhood. But before we start sermonizing on the 'problems' with the urban poor or the 'problems' with police/citizen interactions, we need to understand what parts of human nature results in the choices they make.
The media is the best tool to help us understand the choices made by the people around us. Rather than stories about bad guys and innocent victims, I would be interested in seeing more in-depth articles about why people make the choices they make. Maybe then, we could better develop ways to address those problems.
Hmmm I wonder why this situation with the police doesn't happen in other Western countries (Canada, UK, Germany, France etc...)?! Maybe their police aren't completely paranoid or given a free ticket to anything?
3
Consider so-called 'racial categories' in the Land of the Free – actually, ethnic, cultural and socio-economic categories, where skin colour, hair and face shape play the biggest roles, followed by levels of formal schooling, socioeconomic status, religion, and IQ.
Then for LEOs, for starters, how about recognising that most cops in most jurisdictions around the world are socially isolated by their occupation from other employment groups – are usually themselves the children, siblings, spouses, nephews, nieces, cousins and grandchildren of cops?
Next, that most US cops historically have been and still are mainly from Irish American, followed by Italian American backgrounds? That most cops historically in New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, have been Roman Catholics and that most African Americans are Southern Baptist?
That most American cops and most of their victims have low levels of formal schooling, have low IQs, and low levels of social responsibility outside their immediate families, clans and tribes?
That many cops have a forces background where they are conditioned to fight and kill the enemy on reflex at the first sign of adversity?
That most cops on the street, male and female, bulk up in the gym three times a week, pushing heavy iron, using anabolic steroids so that they can present a more formidable physical appearance?
That most cops believe in Semper fidelis, no matter what, whether or not they have ever served in the United States Marine Corps?
Then for LEOs, for starters, how about recognising that most cops in most jurisdictions around the world are socially isolated by their occupation from other employment groups – are usually themselves the children, siblings, spouses, nephews, nieces, cousins and grandchildren of cops?
Next, that most US cops historically have been and still are mainly from Irish American, followed by Italian American backgrounds? That most cops historically in New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, have been Roman Catholics and that most African Americans are Southern Baptist?
That most American cops and most of their victims have low levels of formal schooling, have low IQs, and low levels of social responsibility outside their immediate families, clans and tribes?
That many cops have a forces background where they are conditioned to fight and kill the enemy on reflex at the first sign of adversity?
That most cops on the street, male and female, bulk up in the gym three times a week, pushing heavy iron, using anabolic steroids so that they can present a more formidable physical appearance?
That most cops believe in Semper fidelis, no matter what, whether or not they have ever served in the United States Marine Corps?
3
I understand that macho cops feel "disrespected" easily and are programmed to escalate any conflict. But what I don't understand is why must they shoot to kill? Doesn't shooting to immobilize enough to provide relief to their offended pride and to avenge being "disrespected"?
5
Because dead witnesses don't testify.
It's not just racial profiling and police brutality that people are in an uproar about. It's about corruption, lack of professionalism, and a job seen in the eyes of many people as high paying but little effort and seems to attract laziness and incompetence.
A Linden police officer was drinking and driving, killing one of his pals and another.
In Edison, well...you only have google to see how corrupt and incompetent they are. Buying bikes while on duty and a school is burning down, giving pay for a year after it was suspended to a police officer, drug dealing, etc
A New Jersey state trooper chased after and fired shots at teenagers who rang the wrong doorbell at the house, an excessive use of force no matter the situation.
Cops rear end civilian cars and say, "Oh that damage was there already" and drives away. Who you gonna call? The cops?
NYT reports on police corruption, throwing innocents into jail. False testimonies, witnesses you name it.
Police are only good as the people who make it up. Police aren't college educated, it's viewed as a low intelligence job when really it requires a lot of character, fairness, judgement. The recruitment doesn't meet this mark. It's too much based on connections, which means no accountability. There should be more diversity, more college educated, who can then also pay back their student loans. The police don't really give us a reason to trust them. Everyone having a camera and news media fanning flames plays a role too.
A Linden police officer was drinking and driving, killing one of his pals and another.
In Edison, well...you only have google to see how corrupt and incompetent they are. Buying bikes while on duty and a school is burning down, giving pay for a year after it was suspended to a police officer, drug dealing, etc
A New Jersey state trooper chased after and fired shots at teenagers who rang the wrong doorbell at the house, an excessive use of force no matter the situation.
Cops rear end civilian cars and say, "Oh that damage was there already" and drives away. Who you gonna call? The cops?
NYT reports on police corruption, throwing innocents into jail. False testimonies, witnesses you name it.
Police are only good as the people who make it up. Police aren't college educated, it's viewed as a low intelligence job when really it requires a lot of character, fairness, judgement. The recruitment doesn't meet this mark. It's too much based on connections, which means no accountability. There should be more diversity, more college educated, who can then also pay back their student loans. The police don't really give us a reason to trust them. Everyone having a camera and news media fanning flames plays a role too.
2
" Police aren't college educated, it's viewed as a low intelligence job"
There have been actual news reports of people who were not hired by the police because they had too high an IQ.
There have been actual news reports of people who were not hired by the police because they had too high an IQ.
1
I don't understand why Tensing was given the option of bail. How many of us want people who have been indicted for murder to remain at large? This is unfair to the public.
4
I can only imagine what would be recording if Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paulo cops were required to have cameras on them and turned on. They make our cops look like saints.
2
That last sentence tell it all,"What a camera see is not necessarily what the officer see." Yes, the camera does not have prejudices or biases and will not assume that a person is suspect or guilty because of the color of his skin.
3
There are many roots of this problem, but one of them is that police have been overtrained to expect violence from any encounter with the public. This training is part of the process of becoming "professional" and I suspect that it has been forwarded by outside police consultants. The number one task of a police commander or chief is to get his men and women home safely. If that means killing a few people who didn't deserve violence... The promotion of the idea that violence can come at any second is also forwarded by police equipment makers, like those who sell Tasers and other weapons.
Another source is the idea that YOU MUST RESPECT ME! Don't "talk back", don't question ANYTHING I say or do, just shut-up and OBEY. This kind of attitude is, to put it mildly, counter productive when dealing with the public. When an officer enters an encounter with such an attitude, it doesn't take all that long to go from a routine traffic stop to violence.
The police are not "in charge" of peaceful citizens going about their business, even after a minor violation has occurred. Because traffic laws apply to those driving cars, they have more authority in that situation than the would over someone walking down a sidewalk. We are free citizens until there is a strong reason for an arrest. In the wake of the assertion of full Constitutional rights empowered by court decisions, many police departments have pushed back and taken a militant attitude of aggression that must be curbed.
Another source is the idea that YOU MUST RESPECT ME! Don't "talk back", don't question ANYTHING I say or do, just shut-up and OBEY. This kind of attitude is, to put it mildly, counter productive when dealing with the public. When an officer enters an encounter with such an attitude, it doesn't take all that long to go from a routine traffic stop to violence.
The police are not "in charge" of peaceful citizens going about their business, even after a minor violation has occurred. Because traffic laws apply to those driving cars, they have more authority in that situation than the would over someone walking down a sidewalk. We are free citizens until there is a strong reason for an arrest. In the wake of the assertion of full Constitutional rights empowered by court decisions, many police departments have pushed back and taken a militant attitude of aggression that must be curbed.
5
None of the traffic stop videos start off with the officers showing disrespect for the drivers. They all start off with the officers being polite The Cincinnati stop escalated toward violence when Samuel DuBose restarted his car and started to drive away. The violence in the North Charleston stop began when Walter Scott got out of his car and ran away. The violence in the Waller County video began when Sandra Bland refuse to comply with the highway patrolman's legal order to get out of her car. The video shows the officer addressed Sandra Bland as "Ma'am" while she screamed obscenities at him that newspapers like the New York Times won't print.
It is not against the law to be impolite to an officer. Nor is it required that we bow down to them. People react differently and sometimes their reaction can be seen as unreasonable or over the top. Officers need to be trained in how to handle these situations. Instead, many of the videos show that the police go from calm to Defcon 4 in an instant. Running away might be a crime, but it is not punishable by instant death. Wake up. These things could happen to you or someone you love and care about. By the way, you don't know that DuBose was driving away. He restarted the car and was killed for doing it. The car likely continued forward because his foot was pressed on the accelerator, intentionally or otherwise.
NO ONE should be placed in immediate danger because they react in the wrong way to a police officer, absent a real and actual threat on the officer. In the case of Walter Scott, for example, he would easily have been arrested later. I repeat, the penalty for running is not death.
NO ONE should be placed in immediate danger because they react in the wrong way to a police officer, absent a real and actual threat on the officer. In the case of Walter Scott, for example, he would easily have been arrested later. I repeat, the penalty for running is not death.
In response to "William Case" in the situation of Sandra Bland, to my mind she certainly made things worse by continuing to talk constantly after the officer said she was under arrest. There is nothing to be gained from arguing with an officer at that point, but, as stated, some people overreact. She should never have been placed in that situation in the first place. She "disobeyed an officer" by saying she wasn't going to put out her cigarette. Big deal. This should not, ever, lead to an arrest and a threat to "light" her up with a Taser.
Bland's was a minor traffic stop. The officer chose to escalate it into something far worse. Further, she should never have been held in jail but released on a minor bond (like $50) because under our system of laws, people are considered innocent up and until they have been convicted.
There is a proper way to handle such situations. Our police officers need to be better trained and more disciplined and they must know how to keep their emotions in check.
Bland's was a minor traffic stop. The officer chose to escalate it into something far worse. Further, she should never have been held in jail but released on a minor bond (like $50) because under our system of laws, people are considered innocent up and until they have been convicted.
There is a proper way to handle such situations. Our police officers need to be better trained and more disciplined and they must know how to keep their emotions in check.
Police make about 12 million arrests each year, not including traffic stops. There are no reliable nationwide records on the total number of traffic stops, but police issue about 45 million traffic tickets each year. To come up with 10 videos purported to show police misconduct in these approximately 57 million encounters, the New York Times had to include videos of two incidents (McKinney and Prairie View) in which the officers are not facing charges and two (Michael Brown and Eric Garner) in which the officers have been exonerated. Two of the videos (McKinney and Prairie View) show arrests in which the alleged victims suffered no injuries. The common theme in all the video is that the people are trying to evade arrest, resist9ng arrest or refusing to comply with legal orders.
3
Here are a few thousand more accounts of reported police misconduct:
www.policemisconduct.net
www.policemisconduct.net
James Pasco (director of the Fraternal Order of Police) said there are millions of proper police and civilian contacts each day with no claim of police wrong doing "...but that's not news". Of what relevance is this statement except to try to deflect criticism from the police. When they circle the wagons you know there is a fundamental problem. I think he protests too loudly! Surprised he didn't utter the bromide "most officers are good". The victims need not be apologetic.
4
You think that when people defend themselves, it proves they are guilty?
Police are public servants. And these cases are of tremendous public interest. We need to hear from the cops involved, because their actions are affecting our view of the whole justice system. At present, they are not talking because they are exercising their Fifth Amendment rights. Still, prosecutors have a tool to get a statement while complying with the Fifth. It's known as a proffer -- a statement that is immunized as long as its truthful. We need proffers here. We need to know what the cops were thinking.
1
It's been a very long time coming, but now that it's out, good luck trying to change the perception that cops are above the law. Good cops will never make a difference unless they speak up and lean on the bad ones. I'll hold my breath until that happens.
4
If the racial tension we're seeing evidence of these days is a result of Obama being elected, and re-elected, then heaven help us if we have our first woman president next year. I think we need a strong female leader and we are ready for one, but society's collective sputtering over the election of our first black president means we should be careful in being so self congratulatory about how far we think we've come. If we have a female president, there will be societal challenges, in ways we may be able to predict and in ways we may not. We need to be careful not to marginalize those who will speak up in the name of sexism just as we should not marginalize those who speak up today in the name of racism, racism over too many incidents - even one is too many - and the overwhelming evidence that we're not as "post-racial" as we'd like to think we are. What the election of a black president or a female president highlights is the tough job of bringing hearts along with minds into the reality of our demographics. After careful self-examination as a country, we will emerge better, but not without the pain of sacrifice along the way.
2
Since the police and our government have a monopoly on the use of violence, it's not unreasonable to force officers to wear body camera's.
There are situations where turning the body camera off is prudent, but as soon as the gun/tazer comes out, the camera should always be on.
Too bad we can't trade backs some those useless MRAP's for some body cameras.
There are situations where turning the body camera off is prudent, but as soon as the gun/tazer comes out, the camera should always be on.
Too bad we can't trade backs some those useless MRAP's for some body cameras.
1
This is just coming to light, but it's been happening for a long time. Wait until the videos of serving search warrants start happening . . .
2
I'll be there are many more videos that could be shown that tell a different, more frequently occurring story of how situations quickly evolve into dangerous encounters for the police, where they are either harmed or at least seriously threatened.
The videos may show that police may have overreacted in some instances and became too afraid for their own lives to think rationally.
The videos also reinforce the view that blacks expect to have impunity when they resist arrest or behave badly while under the influence in most cases of drugs.
In Baltimore, when the police tried to be politically correct and not deal with black criminals, gun deaths went up dramatically, and the black mayor fired the police chief for inaction.
Some people want to have the cake after having eaten it.
Unreal.
The videos also reinforce the view that blacks expect to have impunity when they resist arrest or behave badly while under the influence in most cases of drugs.
In Baltimore, when the police tried to be politically correct and not deal with black criminals, gun deaths went up dramatically, and the black mayor fired the police chief for inaction.
Some people want to have the cake after having eaten it.
Unreal.
4
A careful examination of all the reasons people are drawn to police work is in order here. There are good reasons and bad. The difficulty in doing this stems from the reality that most people who become police officers have a mixture of both. Then there is the reality that many of those who would be making the decision as to who should or should not be in the profession are themselves without clear understanding of all the reasons why someone should not become an officer of the law. I suspect, too, that if the profession were limited to those without flaws in thinking and character that would make them poor candidates for the job, then it would be hard to staff police forces in just about every department in the world. I am one who believes that it would be better to be short of police officers than to have any that display the obvious psychological inadequacies displayed in these videos.
1
Police violence is a systemic problem so it requires systemic solutions. We need independent prosecutors for all alleged police misconduct. We need body cameras and dash cams with no officer discretion in turning them off. The video evidence should not be available to the police to edit or alter. Non-violent, victimless crimes, especially drug crimes, need to be eliminated from the books so that police are not taken away from their primary job of maintaining the peace. Rules need to be put into place to encourage the safest way of apprehending small time criminals. Safe for the police and safe for the accused. No more using military units and equipment for serving warrants. No more pursuits of fleeing traffic stop citizens that the police have already identified and can pick up later.
It is crazy to expect any group of people, however upstanding to behave well if there are no incentives to behaving well and no consequences when they don't.
It is crazy to expect any group of people, however upstanding to behave well if there are no incentives to behaving well and no consequences when they don't.
2
Bill Randle's comment summarizes the issues.
Yes we are focusing on the worst examples of incompetent policing, where a "mistake" means someone - someone black - ends up dead. We've also gone through a media pendulum swing, where, post 9/11, every person in a uniform was a hero; now the incompetent and dangerous actions are in the spotlight. Most of these guys are neither heros nor bums - just like the rest of us.
But the use of cameras is here, and the police might as well accept this and figure out how to use this. So officers and departments can no longer avert their attention from poorly performing officers, or pretend that all testimony from an officer is reliable [There is, or should be, a higher standard for police when it comes to giving testimony].
The new world will require more attention to training, more work on terminating those who aren't cut out for the job. And it won't make most people love the police, but it should go a long way to building respect.
When I have been stopped I try to keep in mind how it feels from their side, even if I am nervous/aggravated/ . I can't imagine how fraught i would be if I imagined that I might get hauled to jail or shot for not giving the right response or because my skin color evoked a negative reaction in the officer.
Yes we are focusing on the worst examples of incompetent policing, where a "mistake" means someone - someone black - ends up dead. We've also gone through a media pendulum swing, where, post 9/11, every person in a uniform was a hero; now the incompetent and dangerous actions are in the spotlight. Most of these guys are neither heros nor bums - just like the rest of us.
But the use of cameras is here, and the police might as well accept this and figure out how to use this. So officers and departments can no longer avert their attention from poorly performing officers, or pretend that all testimony from an officer is reliable [There is, or should be, a higher standard for police when it comes to giving testimony].
The new world will require more attention to training, more work on terminating those who aren't cut out for the job. And it won't make most people love the police, but it should go a long way to building respect.
When I have been stopped I try to keep in mind how it feels from their side, even if I am nervous/aggravated/ . I can't imagine how fraught i would be if I imagined that I might get hauled to jail or shot for not giving the right response or because my skin color evoked a negative reaction in the officer.
7
The tipping point in all the videos that leads to a tragic ending is the person's refusal to comply with the orders given by the police. I wonder in each one of these videos how things might have turned out had the victim just stopped and followed the officers directions. Running, resisting and copping an attitude with the police never works out to the victims benefit - never.
11
So, you are saying that less than total compliance with an officer's directives that may or may not be legal makes one fair game for automatic imposition of the death penalty? Mr. Dubose was soft-spoken, kept his hands visible, and began to resist only when the officer opened his door. We don't know yet, but perhaps he saw that the officer already had his gun out and panicked, as might any of us - given that the shot was fired literally two seconds later before the car even moved. In a perfect world, all people would know how to respond to police, but police also wouldn't resort to lethal force at the slightest perceived provocation. The officer was properly indicted and hopefully justice will be served.
2
None of the kind of behavior by citizens described above, who are under the law innocent until proven guilty by the way, rectifies the bullying, verbal assault, aggressive behavior, and lack of civil behavior by the police.
1
Lethal force is supposed to be used when the officers or others lives are threatened. There will always be people who don't comply. Do we want to live in a country where people are executed for non-compliance?
1
Although NYC police are a bit better than most, I have had probably a dozen interactions with police while in the road (even though I still have a perfect driving record). The reality is that if you are part of a profiled group-- in my case, a white man with long hair, a hippie or punk-- you receive angry, discriminatory, smug, sarcastic, guilt presuming, violent words as a default from most police. I can only imagine how much worse this is for black people. Across the board, we need to diminish and control the police. They are essentially the guard dogs of society and their leash must be shortened significant lest they continue to bite us.
20
Successful take offs and landings never make the news, crashes always do. These rogue cops are likely a very small number. Nevertheless, police attitudes need to change. When they find a bad cop in their ranks they need to get him or her out of there. Not close the ranks and go into denial.
14
Re. Body Cameras:
Why limit their use to the police? Why not require all public officials to wear body cameras? Just imagine how how difficult they would make it for corrupt officials to abuse their power.
Why limit their use to the police? Why not require all public officials to wear body cameras? Just imagine how how difficult they would make it for corrupt officials to abuse their power.
7
More specifically, body cameras would go a long way toward giving our public officials an objective eye that enables them to see the difference between right and wrong--kind of like giving them a conscience, which so many officials appear to have lost or, sadly, maybe never had to begin with.
A couple of thoughts:
1) It is becoming abundantly clear that the critical time is what happens BEFORE the police violence. Most officers will try to de-escalate a difficult situation. Unfortunately, others (as in the Bland case) ramp up the confrontation. When did some police officers forget that their motto was "to protect and serve"? They should consider themselves the mediators of public peace rather than army occupiers
2) what was a University of Cincinnati cop doing outside the campus perimeter stopping a motorist for not having a license plate? Rules of engagement were certainly not followed from the very first instance of contact
1) It is becoming abundantly clear that the critical time is what happens BEFORE the police violence. Most officers will try to de-escalate a difficult situation. Unfortunately, others (as in the Bland case) ramp up the confrontation. When did some police officers forget that their motto was "to protect and serve"? They should consider themselves the mediators of public peace rather than army occupiers
2) what was a University of Cincinnati cop doing outside the campus perimeter stopping a motorist for not having a license plate? Rules of engagement were certainly not followed from the very first instance of contact
8
The Bland case is the Bland case, not because of the stop, but because she killed herself!
Anyone who knows their American history knows that Black people have been mistreated throughout. Only someone who is willfully ignorant can say that there isn't racism today even without the videos. But what the videos do is make it very real by showing a specific person being brutalized and/or murdered. I don't believe police have gotten worse, I believe that the perpetrators are no longer going to have the luxury of anonymity. And no, it won't take 15 years to correct as it is going to get very expensive for their employers to defend this and pay off when they lose.
Sad to say that change will only come with the money pressure, but at this point we clearly cannot rely on self-correction. I don't want any police officer killed because s/he hesitates to defend themself, but we simply are not seeing that be the case in any of these events.
Sad to say that change will only come with the money pressure, but at this point we clearly cannot rely on self-correction. I don't want any police officer killed because s/he hesitates to defend themself, but we simply are not seeing that be the case in any of these events.
46
This in no way justifies any of these unjustified police shootings but, in addition to focusing on improving policing tactics -- we should also be trying to alert the public to the dangers of resisting arrest, running from police officers, disobeying orders, etc.
Many of these incidents could have been entirely avoided had people simply complied with incredibly innocuous requests (please walk on the sidewalk, you've got a broken tail-light, where is your drivers license and front license plate?).
What's wrong with President Obama saying something along these lines:
"Many of these recent police actions have been far too aggressive and some of them may indeed have been illegal. These actions are inexcusable and we are working diligently to make sure they do not happen again. But please also know that you should not run from police officers when being pulled over for a broken tail-light. You should not assault police officers when being ticketed for not having a drivers license and you should walk on the sidewalk when asked to do so. Some of these police officers work in very dangerous neighborhoods and threats can arise out of nowhere. Failing to comply with very basic requests elevate can immediately escalate a situation from a routine traffic stop to a very dangerous confrontation. Let's all work together to avoid these situations in the future"
Many of these incidents could have been entirely avoided had people simply complied with incredibly innocuous requests (please walk on the sidewalk, you've got a broken tail-light, where is your drivers license and front license plate?).
What's wrong with President Obama saying something along these lines:
"Many of these recent police actions have been far too aggressive and some of them may indeed have been illegal. These actions are inexcusable and we are working diligently to make sure they do not happen again. But please also know that you should not run from police officers when being pulled over for a broken tail-light. You should not assault police officers when being ticketed for not having a drivers license and you should walk on the sidewalk when asked to do so. Some of these police officers work in very dangerous neighborhoods and threats can arise out of nowhere. Failing to comply with very basic requests elevate can immediately escalate a situation from a routine traffic stop to a very dangerous confrontation. Let's all work together to avoid these situations in the future"
7
These videos are extremely disturbing and I'm glad the public can see examples of why minorities distrust police. But one video does not belong here--that of Michael Brown lying on the street. It implies that the shooting was unjustified, and that is not what St. Louis County or the United States Department of Justice concluded. Michael Brown tried to take Darren Wilson's gun from him while he sat in his patrol car. In the attempt, a shot was fired into Officer Wilson's car. As far as I'm concerned, from that moment on, Michael Brown had to be viewed as a threat to Officer Wilson's life.
5
"mike", there is a major flaw in how "justified" shootings and other violence are determined. The District Attorney, who has purview over the process, is part of the same system as the police. The DA must work with the police on a daily, even hourly basis. Further, something can be legally justified and still be wrong or unnecessary. We want not only the rule of law, but also a society in which confrontation is not eagerly sought.
The further complication in the Brown case is that the city of Ferguson, and its police department, had devolved into a collection agency, with badges and guns, for taxes in the form of fines and fees and then fees for not paying fees. The city issued 30,000 arrest warrants in one year in a town of 20,000. It is reasonable to believe that the city's practices led to the confrontation with Brown and his death when the facts are examined closely and fully understood.
The further complication in the Brown case is that the city of Ferguson, and its police department, had devolved into a collection agency, with badges and guns, for taxes in the form of fines and fees and then fees for not paying fees. The city issued 30,000 arrest warrants in one year in a town of 20,000. It is reasonable to believe that the city's practices led to the confrontation with Brown and his death when the facts are examined closely and fully understood.
2
If there had been a film of Michael Brown's death, your opinion might be different. If there had been no video of these other shootings, there also would have been no indictments.
1
There was no public trial in the Brown case so the public are still left in the dark as to whether anyone but Brown's life was in danger. When someone is killed by an official and the officials don't have a public trial, there will always be suspicions about the findings, regardles if municipal and federal government findings, as it's become ovious through these videos that lying, false reporting, false charges and the planting of false evidence are routine practice by some authorities when an American citizen's rights are violated.
Hopefully a civil trial for Michael Brown would bring more truth to light on what actually happened in Ferguson.
Hopefully a civil trial for Michael Brown would bring more truth to light on what actually happened in Ferguson.
The public's view is that police are prejudiced and aggressive and so they kill blacks who they think are uppity. The widespread belief is that too many cops are irrational, murderous actors who kill with impunity. Many would say that they don't need the cops' explanations. They are liars and murderers and that is that. But I believe that there is something to be learned from the cops' explanations, even in the most flagrant of offenses where the cops have lied. I'd like to know why, after thousands of uneventful stops, this one got them to pull the trigger. The cops don't talk because their lawyers tell them not to. So we don't know whether they are all bad apples or if some were decent guys for whom an irrational shooting was way out of character. Were they on a mission of hate or did they just snap? That matters to me.
3
What happened to Dubose, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice etc. etc. were human rights atrocities, crimes against humanity. This is how our foreign service employees and politicians characterize crimes like these when they happen overseas in foreign countries, and is how they should be classified here at home when they happen at the hands of our municipal or state authorities. Anything less is hypocrisy. If race has played a role in these crimes against American citizens, then it's racist hypocrisy. All these murders are violations of the Univeral Declaration/International Bill of Human rights.
Recent SCOTUS decisions that facilitate the use of force by local authorities to commit acts like the Dubose murder and then subsequently hide behind falsified reports and false evidence planting (Walter Scott) may also be in violation of American citizens' civil, constitutional and international human rights. These coverups may be seen to be larger than the murderous individual, be conspiratorial, where the whole system rubberstamps unjust public executions and protects the murderer from accountability for the human rights atrocity. American citizens deserve better than this, regardless of their economic stations in life or their ethnicity.
Recent SCOTUS decisions that facilitate the use of force by local authorities to commit acts like the Dubose murder and then subsequently hide behind falsified reports and false evidence planting (Walter Scott) may also be in violation of American citizens' civil, constitutional and international human rights. These coverups may be seen to be larger than the murderous individual, be conspiratorial, where the whole system rubberstamps unjust public executions and protects the murderer from accountability for the human rights atrocity. American citizens deserve better than this, regardless of their economic stations in life or their ethnicity.
4
With criticism like this, why would anyone want to become a police officer anymore? You get paid a middle income salary to put your life on the line every day, and now any split-second decision you make because you're concerned "in the moment" that your life might be in danger could land you in jail as well.
Its easy for people to criticize police actions when they're not there and experiencing what the police officer is experiencing. If he guesses wrong about a suspect's motives, he could be dead in a split second.
Instead of complaining about the police, why dont people join the force to make a difference? More importantly, lets see minority communities work to get more of their own on police forces, so THEY can do the community policing? I'd love to see districts that are majority-minority being policed by a majority-minority so that we can get rid of this "us vs them" mentality. Lets recruit many more african-americans to become police officers and be "of the community".
Its easy for people to criticize police actions when they're not there and experiencing what the police officer is experiencing. If he guesses wrong about a suspect's motives, he could be dead in a split second.
Instead of complaining about the police, why dont people join the force to make a difference? More importantly, lets see minority communities work to get more of their own on police forces, so THEY can do the community policing? I'd love to see districts that are majority-minority being policed by a majority-minority so that we can get rid of this "us vs them" mentality. Lets recruit many more african-americans to become police officers and be "of the community".
3
Historically minorities have been discriminated against when they want to join or move up in the police force.
1
What a weak argument? Why become a Police Officer for middle income salary to put your life on the line? Please don't forget the Union benefits, considerable pension and retirement after 20 years. By the same token why take up any profession like nursing, social work etc. with the constant threat of being fired, no or bad health insurance, no union benefits facing apocalypse should a patient die or ending with a permanent disability - all for low middle income to very low pay. Lets see the results when all professions follow your script.
"Video taken from body cameras of Officers Kidd and Lindenschmidt was also released." Could the NYT please also let us see it?
3
It hasn't been released to the media yet. I'm sure the NYT will be the first to let us know.
A negative is that police might say, ‘We just won’t put ourselves in bad situations,’ that they say, ‘We are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’ ” said Francis T. Cullen, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati.
I AM NOT BUYING THAT.
What is incredible about all of these incidents is that the reason for the stop, the so called crime perpetrated fall far short of any sort of serious, life threatening situation. Failure to signal a lane change, a broken tail light, walking in the middle of the street, selling loose cigarettes, failure to disperse from a pool party, walking around in a WalMart store, playing in the park with a BB gun, making eye contact, not making eye contact ...the list goes on.
Maybe these types of unnecessary stops (stop and frisk) and police doubling as revenue agents need to be eliminated.
Notice what happened when NYPD did their slow down in January for two weeks? Tickets issued went down and the court dockets were relatively empty, but there was no spike in crime.
Eliminate ridiculous ticket writing and end the war on drug and you could probably reduce police forces nationwide 50% or more.
I AM NOT BUYING THAT.
What is incredible about all of these incidents is that the reason for the stop, the so called crime perpetrated fall far short of any sort of serious, life threatening situation. Failure to signal a lane change, a broken tail light, walking in the middle of the street, selling loose cigarettes, failure to disperse from a pool party, walking around in a WalMart store, playing in the park with a BB gun, making eye contact, not making eye contact ...the list goes on.
Maybe these types of unnecessary stops (stop and frisk) and police doubling as revenue agents need to be eliminated.
Notice what happened when NYPD did their slow down in January for two weeks? Tickets issued went down and the court dockets were relatively empty, but there was no spike in crime.
Eliminate ridiculous ticket writing and end the war on drug and you could probably reduce police forces nationwide 50% or more.
15
Citizens' lives are worth any cost. There is absolutely no equivalence. These videos are exposing what the black are suffering in their daily lives. These videos confirm what they have been complaining about all along. It was the cop's word against theirs and of course, the cop was always right. The videos now expose the lies and justification for fatal encounters. Now complaining that the videos will only make the officers avoid any encounter and not maintain law and order is pure negligence of their duties and not abiding by their oath. The reasoning that there are only a few bad apples does not mean no remedial measures should be undertaken. Every profession has a peer review system to remove the bad apples and protocols set in place to improve the system and preventing any breaches in the future. Shame on the Police Department if they claim there are only few rogue cops and do not want any changes.
4
The rule according to a higher law means that no law may be enforced by the government or police unless it conforms with certain universal principles that peace is in danger based on human fealty . Peace is the morally correct state of justice .
I personally have never really had a positive view of law enforcement. I am not sure where this comes from because I don't think I have a good reason to have this negative view. I have never had an encounter, sure moving violation encounters: drifting through a stop-sign, speeding. Perhaps it is the excessive town taxes that I pay for services that I don't think I am receiving? It is a real conundrum. Then I read this.
2
The story of police violence in inner cities was chronicled and reported by way of rap music. Gansta rap told the story of police brutality and the response to it decades ago. At the time, everyone lined up to denounce the music instead of addressing the problem that is spoke to. Video cameras are now showing it live. This is what it has taken for America to listen.
4
Obviously, they need to change the way that cops are being trained. It seems to me that none of these officers handled the situations correctly. They shift from being a calm rational person to vigilante in a matter of moments. Why is there not more protocol to handle these situations?
3
The combination of being black and uncooperative seems to push a panic button for many police officers and even some readers. I believe I am seeing a common understanding among the offending officers and some readers' comments suggesting fatal violence as justified reaction. Being black and cooperative or white and uncooperative has a higher survival rate (I know there are several infamous exceptions), but being black and uncooperative seems to be the consistent threat that triggers very specific reactionary alarms.
It should be obvious that it's easier to respond to police harassment calmly and respectfully when you are not the target of constant attack. Even the attitude of blaming the victim is an assault, a blindness to the impact of racism and always being at risk. Being human, maybe some of us reach a point where it becomes impossible to submit to yet another blow of indignation.
It should be obvious that it's easier to respond to police harassment calmly and respectfully when you are not the target of constant attack. Even the attitude of blaming the victim is an assault, a blindness to the impact of racism and always being at risk. Being human, maybe some of us reach a point where it becomes impossible to submit to yet another blow of indignation.
7
I think I need more information about the body cam operations in the field. Who decides when to turn them on/off? The wearer? Can the content be erased? By whom? Who reviews the video? Surely not another policeman....it should be done by an unbiased, non-police person, shouldn't it? How long are the videos stored and how and by who? There could be a need to review content several years after an event, so lots of space and many more people will be needed, won't they? Does anybody know the details? Is there some kind of guidebook for law enforcement organizations? If so, who has it? I think the public, which is paying for these programs needs to know how they are, or will be, used. Don't you?
1
Much of the public is NOT paying for these, as they don't pay income taxes and certainly sales and payroll taxes don't cover.
Statistics don't back up this view at all. Most videos show the police innocent of these sensationalist charges. Including the Ferguson one where a black criminal robbed and assaulted a store owner and then attacked a police officer. But that doesn't matter to media. So the constant misrepresentation of videos by media shows it doesn't matter what is on a video. 45 million black people and the media ties a handful of videos together without context, or statistics or showing similar videos of, say, white people being arrested.
This new Cincinnati video is ONE that shows a police officer firing his gun and killing a man believing, I guess, that he has the right to shoot you at a traffic stop. Seems like murder plain and simple. But none of these other videos are tied together with that one.
Now the jobless man, with 75 arrests and 13 children, will be painted as a saint.
This new Cincinnati video is ONE that shows a police officer firing his gun and killing a man believing, I guess, that he has the right to shoot you at a traffic stop. Seems like murder plain and simple. But none of these other videos are tied together with that one.
Now the jobless man, with 75 arrests and 13 children, will be painted as a saint.
4
US police force appear to be the most violent and trigger happy of all the industrialized countries, including Eastern Europe and Russia (two areas US frequently scolds for brutal and corrupt policing).
4
Of the several videos shown in this New York Times article, only two of them made me disrespect the police officer involved. In my opinion, most of them showed the police doing their jobs, in spite of resistance or criticism from certain civilians.
3
"Certain civilians" includes me - -an old white lady. I don't know anyone who has a shred of respect for cops.
1
Another shift as a result of video documentation of police/public interactions: People have taken to identifying themselves as White in their online comments. White is--slowly-- becoming understood as the 'race' its always been.
“Body cameras are helpful, but they are not the magic elixir,” said Sim Gill, the district attorney of Salt Lake County, Utah. “What a camera sees is not necessarily what the officer sees. It’s not always going to be conclusive.”
Well, Mr. Gill is right about inconclusiveness, but wrong about where it applies. It applies to what the officer sees. What the camera sees is what's there; what the officer sees is filtered through the emotional mind of the officer.
I think we should have laws that require police officers to wear body cameras and severely punish a police officer who is on duty without a functioning body camera. Immediate suspension with pay; then, if the officer is found guilty of involvement in not making sure the camera stays on, dismissal, forfeit of pension, and a long term jail sentence.
Well, Mr. Gill is right about inconclusiveness, but wrong about where it applies. It applies to what the officer sees. What the camera sees is what's there; what the officer sees is filtered through the emotional mind of the officer.
I think we should have laws that require police officers to wear body cameras and severely punish a police officer who is on duty without a functioning body camera. Immediate suspension with pay; then, if the officer is found guilty of involvement in not making sure the camera stays on, dismissal, forfeit of pension, and a long term jail sentence.
2
You are in for a big surprise when this video gets dissected frame by frame in court by defense counsel. It will not be pretty for prosecution as it will most likely show that cop was dragged. There is no other indicator in the encounter that the cop was being belligerent or had hand on weapon.
DA also charged with manslaughter, so confidence in murder (despite bombastic statements) may not be so strong.
DA also charged with manslaughter, so confidence in murder (despite bombastic statements) may not be so strong.
"What the camera sees is what's there; what the officer sees is filtered through the emotional mind of the officer."
The camera doesn't "see" anything. Nor does it record everything. And the "conclusiveness" of what is found in a video depends on what observers see in it. Some people claim to see in the Sandra Bland video that she went through a stop sign (at 1:15). I didn't see that the first few times I watched the video, but now it does seem to me that that is her. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But recordings do require interpretation.
The camera doesn't "see" anything. Nor does it record everything. And the "conclusiveness" of what is found in a video depends on what observers see in it. Some people claim to see in the Sandra Bland video that she went through a stop sign (at 1:15). I didn't see that the first few times I watched the video, but now it does seem to me that that is her. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But recordings do require interpretation.
The one underlying theme in these videos except for Freddie Gray is the victims are being uncooperative,belligerent or outright resisting arrest.The Police must act professionally and be held accountable for their actions but citizens have to act responsibly as well.Where does a 15 year old girl get the idea she can defy police orders? What do you do with a 300 pound man with outstanding warrants who refuses to be arrested? Tase him? Mace him? Neither seem a good idea considering his health.Eric Garner could have walked into the police car peacefully,he chose not to.
Being uncooperative or resisting the police at best is going to result in increased charges and a night in jail,at worst it will result in being shot in the back by a sociopath or in the head by a trigger happy rookie.If you don't want police to enforce so called minor crimes and traffic laws have your politicians take them off the books.As a lifelong NYC resident that is a very bad idea.
Being uncooperative or resisting the police at best is going to result in increased charges and a night in jail,at worst it will result in being shot in the back by a sociopath or in the head by a trigger happy rookie.If you don't want police to enforce so called minor crimes and traffic laws have your politicians take them off the books.As a lifelong NYC resident that is a very bad idea.
7
Are you suggesting that the only way to enforce traffic laws is by shooting an unarmed driver in the head?
1
When are we going to find a solution to guns for police? it's absurd that their only means of subduing or stopping someone is a lethal weapon. Police are constantly being put in highly-charged, violent and threatening situations. And they are supposed to be the "authority," the ones to stop whatever threat they may feel is developing. It's human nature for them to freak out. We'd all freak out. In addition, on a given day, they may have already had three or four freak outs by the time they reach the biggest one, the one where they feel they have to stop something from happening, the one where they reach for their guns.
I think the job of a police officer is extremely strange. They must constantly be handling explosive, confrontational situations. And there is no way to change their job. Obviously, a number of them lose their heads, shoot innocent people. There are far too many police officers in the world, and therefore there is no way we could only hire the most sane, reasonable, smart, compassionate ones. So let's take away their guns. We've made such strides in technology in other areas. Let's put the best minds together to create a non-lethal, yet effective way for police officers to not kill.
I think the job of a police officer is extremely strange. They must constantly be handling explosive, confrontational situations. And there is no way to change their job. Obviously, a number of them lose their heads, shoot innocent people. There are far too many police officers in the world, and therefore there is no way we could only hire the most sane, reasonable, smart, compassionate ones. So let's take away their guns. We've made such strides in technology in other areas. Let's put the best minds together to create a non-lethal, yet effective way for police officers to not kill.
1
Have you thought this one out. In America everyone can have a gun-except cops! Find me 10 people who would take the job even if they are armed to the teeth. Look around your own city. Gun violence is completely out of control. How about we disarm the citizens first, then the cops.
When you start arresting police officers for attempting to enforce the law, you are sending a message to these criminals that they have the right to ignore the police, argue with the police and flee the police any time they choose.
When the crime rates sky-rocket, you won't be able to call the New York Times for help.
When the crime rates sky-rocket, you won't be able to call the New York Times for help.
3
Really? So would you give them a pass for taking bribes, harrasment, assault on their spouses. corruption and now murder. Worshipping at the feet of the annointed ones does not make them like you any better, if fact they will only have more contempt for you
10
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" - police, as well as politicians, need to know that they are not above the law. When you refuse to even consider the idea that a policeman who shoots someone and then lies about the events leading up to the shooting, you are saying that the police should be judge, jury, and executioner - no questions asked. This is a very bad idea.
5
This police officer was not arrested "for attempting to enforce the law." He was arrested for breaking the law. Ignoring the police, arguing with the police, and fleeing the police may or may not be illegal, depending on the circumstances (especially arguing, which everyone has the right to do), and they may or may not be wise, but they are in and of themselves never capital offenses.
1
America is a militaristic-warrior country. Our reaction to 9/11 has turned us into a police state. The brutal wars in Iraq (illegal and pre-emptive, something we are not supposed to be about) and Afghanistan and our drone policy against brown people have filtered down to our police departments. To serve and protect? Not anymore. War weaponry routinely given to colleges and small towns. And of course we are a racist country and our unflabbable (thank god) president has brought that to a head just by his mere breathing. And we are so fearful. (Of course, we have reason to be fearful, living in a police state where are civil liberties have been so badly damaged). And the media keeps us fearful and so scapegoating of the 'other' has reached alarming heights.
I can't keep up with these shootings. They sicken me and make me want to turn away from others. I see the black families - one after another - showing great dignity and strength and I cry for them. How can they bear it? How can black people continually bear it? It's beyond my comprehension. How could I be a black mother and watch her son drive away in the family car, wondering if I'll ever see him again? The burden is beyond understanding, living with that kind of anxiety. The drone of American life that never ceases, even as flying missiles hover over brown lives in the Middle East, the drone ever present. I couldn't bear it.
America, we must change. Now. Please.
I can't keep up with these shootings. They sicken me and make me want to turn away from others. I see the black families - one after another - showing great dignity and strength and I cry for them. How can they bear it? How can black people continually bear it? It's beyond my comprehension. How could I be a black mother and watch her son drive away in the family car, wondering if I'll ever see him again? The burden is beyond understanding, living with that kind of anxiety. The drone of American life that never ceases, even as flying missiles hover over brown lives in the Middle East, the drone ever present. I couldn't bear it.
America, we must change. Now. Please.
11
"The proliferation of video has coincided with a paradox: Public views of the police have grown worse, yet experts say police use of force has probably been lower in the last few years than in generations."
There is no paradox. We chose not to believe people in the past when they said they were victimized by and afraid of the police. Now with video evidence, the complaints can't be ignored or disbelieved.
There is no paradox. We chose not to believe people in the past when they said they were victimized by and afraid of the police. Now with video evidence, the complaints can't be ignored or disbelieved.
4
Let's be clear: these events are not "shifting the public's view of police" if we're talking about the public being people of color in inner-city or rural America. These events are only confirming what they've seen and experienced for decades.
3
Power corrupts. What greater power could anyone possess than that of life and death over another person? When someone -- especially in a country as violent as ours -- is given a gun and an effective license to kill, it should come as no surprise that they use it. Cops know that the chances of them being caught are almost nil, much less being convicted of anything even if they are caught. They know their fellow cops will lie for them. They know the DA will cover their actions with some kind of malarkey. And they know the law gives them tremendous leeway in terms of how they interact with citizens and gives their word more weight than that of a citizen.
It's all about power. Only a few people are really capable of handling such power when doing the very tough job a police officer faces. We've got to find a way to hit the reset button and only put those select few in uniform. And we should pay them very well.
It's all about power. Only a few people are really capable of handling such power when doing the very tough job a police officer faces. We've got to find a way to hit the reset button and only put those select few in uniform. And we should pay them very well.
56
Each country has its own take on fear: Russian citizens, as in many countries, fear the government; Swedish, Norwegian, Uruguayan and Icelandic citizens consider their police as just other citizens doing a job; France is perhaps the only country in the world where the government is afraid of the people.
But countries like the United States of America and Argentina are thrall to the most subversive of all betrayals of their citizens. They are mixtures of good people and purely evil ones. In both countries the evil have wiggled their way into power--the government itself in Argentina, many of the police in America.
The witness afforded by the bodycam/Youtube exposure is a dramatic, needed step in the right direction in the United States.
Like individuals, countries do not leave behind their histories. In both Argentina, America and France, most people are good, ordinary, striving citizens. Argentines under the current evil government are cowed by the fear they learned under the horrors of their 1976 to 1983 military Dictatorship, do nothing to change their crippling government. Americans of all colors are the inheritors of both the rage of the discrimination suffered by the once enslaved and systemic blindness from the myth of "The Great Society." The French well remember the guillotine, and the power of the People over a brutal, uncaring government.
Can the American federal government impose universal control over so-called sovereign state maltreatment of its citizens?
But countries like the United States of America and Argentina are thrall to the most subversive of all betrayals of their citizens. They are mixtures of good people and purely evil ones. In both countries the evil have wiggled their way into power--the government itself in Argentina, many of the police in America.
The witness afforded by the bodycam/Youtube exposure is a dramatic, needed step in the right direction in the United States.
Like individuals, countries do not leave behind their histories. In both Argentina, America and France, most people are good, ordinary, striving citizens. Argentines under the current evil government are cowed by the fear they learned under the horrors of their 1976 to 1983 military Dictatorship, do nothing to change their crippling government. Americans of all colors are the inheritors of both the rage of the discrimination suffered by the once enslaved and systemic blindness from the myth of "The Great Society." The French well remember the guillotine, and the power of the People over a brutal, uncaring government.
Can the American federal government impose universal control over so-called sovereign state maltreatment of its citizens?
What draws people to policing in NY and especially Long Island is the six figure salary, and in some cases, multiple six figure salary, in addition to the great pension and free medical for life and retirement after only 20 years in service. Want more control over your cops? Too bad. They have a bullet proof union. So, the same people who are hassled by the police are forced to pay their pensions for life while us "little people" can get back to work. Still like public sector unions?
1
First, police are to create a climate of peace , order and justice. They are not judges and should never kill anyone except in the most serious case of self-defense. They are hired by the citizens of their town not to kill people but create a peaceful climate. Much of what has been seen on the videos was totally asinine behavior and overkill on the part of the police.
teijahadmirals2015 mississippi says"In my opinion, the police would not have to use as much force as they do,if we the people did not give them a reason to."
This is nonsense. A person who is suspected of selling cigarettes [Garner on Staten Island], a man and woman stopped for not using a turn signal, a man talking on a cell phone and looking to perhaps purchase a gun in WalMart - all these and more are dead. They are dead because they were BLACK. A white person - I'm one- would NOT be dead.
These cops are BAD cops. The so-called GOOD COPS need to weed them out and stop lying for them. If you lie as a cop, you are as bad as the bad ones.
teijahadmirals2015 mississippi says"In my opinion, the police would not have to use as much force as they do,if we the people did not give them a reason to."
This is nonsense. A person who is suspected of selling cigarettes [Garner on Staten Island], a man and woman stopped for not using a turn signal, a man talking on a cell phone and looking to perhaps purchase a gun in WalMart - all these and more are dead. They are dead because they were BLACK. A white person - I'm one- would NOT be dead.
These cops are BAD cops. The so-called GOOD COPS need to weed them out and stop lying for them. If you lie as a cop, you are as bad as the bad ones.
5
So where are all the good cops that people keep referring to? I don't hear any cop condemning this murder.
Three thing which Must be looked at are:
1. Is the psychological makeup of police candidates a factor. If it is true that candidates who are quickly volatile and strive to keep a lid on situations at all cost are being hired..then you have a large cohort of police who are psychologically aggressive and prone to this type of behavior..where they shoot first and ask questions later..
2. Another interesting item in today's society are a couple of 'entertainment' conflicts.
a. On the one hand..we have AMC's show 'Justified'. While I've never watched the show because I do not agree w/ the premise, (per wikipedia "it is based on Elmore Leonard's short story "Fire in the Hole".[2] Timothy Olyphant portrays Raylan Givens, a tough U.S. Marshal enforcing his own brand of justice in his hometown of Harlan, Kentucky."
Here we have a TV show which glorifies in taking life that is 'Justified'
b. Near that end of the spectrum are movies where the police are the problem. We have:
. Clint Eastwood's Magnum Force - 1973
. Liam Nieson's Taken 3 - 2013
. Harrison Ford's Witness
All these convey police forces which are less than honorable..
3. Lastly, We are lucky that one of the major intents of the 2nd amendment (that the right to bare arms will not be infringed) is to protect against Government overreach.
If shooting an unarmed driver for no reason moments after stopping him is not gov't overreach, I do now what is.. Imagine everyone buying guns to protect against the police!!
1. Is the psychological makeup of police candidates a factor. If it is true that candidates who are quickly volatile and strive to keep a lid on situations at all cost are being hired..then you have a large cohort of police who are psychologically aggressive and prone to this type of behavior..where they shoot first and ask questions later..
2. Another interesting item in today's society are a couple of 'entertainment' conflicts.
a. On the one hand..we have AMC's show 'Justified'. While I've never watched the show because I do not agree w/ the premise, (per wikipedia "it is based on Elmore Leonard's short story "Fire in the Hole".[2] Timothy Olyphant portrays Raylan Givens, a tough U.S. Marshal enforcing his own brand of justice in his hometown of Harlan, Kentucky."
Here we have a TV show which glorifies in taking life that is 'Justified'
b. Near that end of the spectrum are movies where the police are the problem. We have:
. Clint Eastwood's Magnum Force - 1973
. Liam Nieson's Taken 3 - 2013
. Harrison Ford's Witness
All these convey police forces which are less than honorable..
3. Lastly, We are lucky that one of the major intents of the 2nd amendment (that the right to bare arms will not be infringed) is to protect against Government overreach.
If shooting an unarmed driver for no reason moments after stopping him is not gov't overreach, I do now what is.. Imagine everyone buying guns to protect against the police!!
3
We always look to technology to solve our problems. The best answer here IMHO is a three-word phrase that was around long before body cams: don't hire bullies. Let's have some basic psychological screening before hiring.
3
Yes, the bullying mentality is part of it. But additionally, the average cop is not a leader, lacks critical thinking, and does not know how to back away from a situation because he doesn't want to lose face.
I once saw a crime scene where someone crossed the police tape to get to her apartment, which was just inside the tape. When the first cop to see her started yelling profanities and telling her to back up, at least two dozen cops surged in their direction and there was a lot of macho posturing.
I'm sure every cop got a short rush from that and felt like he individually set that woman straight.
I once saw a crime scene where someone crossed the police tape to get to her apartment, which was just inside the tape. When the first cop to see her started yelling profanities and telling her to back up, at least two dozen cops surged in their direction and there was a lot of macho posturing.
I'm sure every cop got a short rush from that and felt like he individually set that woman straight.
Here in Massachusetts we have had an odd collision between two positions espoused by traditional liberals: support your local union and promote law enforcement accountability. Most police unions in this state (we have powerful unions here, of all sorts) oppose any video monitoring of their officer membership. Even the unobtrusive cruiser dash cam that is so ubiquitous throughout the rest of the country is virtually absent here. The result has been decades of police shootings of unarmed civilians, which are almost never video recorded, and then exoneration of the police from any culpability by a deferential culture of prosecutors and judges. Only a few years ago an off-duty state trooper shot a grandmother down in her back yard because he apparently thought she was a white-tailed buck. The result was no criminal charges issuing against the trooper, and a fuming grandmother (who incredibly survived her wounds). This extreme version of a hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, record--no-evil tradition is seemingly unique among the 50 states.
1
A lot of this story seems obvious. Of course cameras discourage police misconduct. And, of course, the behavior of some officers isn't going to change because of cameras. The difference is, those officers will no longer be officers when the whole world is watching.
1
Cops have too much privilege. Not only get to murder anybody once (I was scared, man, I thought he had 25 grenades, and the dumb drunk also called me a dumb cop, what means, I believed he had an atom bomb, so I shot him dead) - yeah yeah.
What cops always say - so why we pay these paranoid loser cops? Why?
Why do we keep on paying taxes to have the worst of the cops hassle and kill us? Huh.
Being a cop is NOT NOT NOT an excuse for murder. For shaking down the locals, yeah, yeah, that's what cops do. Corrupt cop - that's almost given. But murder - naah - that's what cops can do, and citizens can't.
What cops always say - so why we pay these paranoid loser cops? Why?
Why do we keep on paying taxes to have the worst of the cops hassle and kill us? Huh.
Being a cop is NOT NOT NOT an excuse for murder. For shaking down the locals, yeah, yeah, that's what cops do. Corrupt cop - that's almost given. But murder - naah - that's what cops can do, and citizens can't.
1
The article states, there are thousands of incidents where citizens are treated professionally by police. This statement is always made after one of these terrible videos. I would like to know how many white police officers have killed a white person at a traffic stop? What are the numbers of white or black officers killing white women or men in the United States for traffic offenses.
California admitted that it had a history of being more harsh to African-Americans at traffic stops. Why is that mean treatment even necessary? Let us drive in peace where ever we want go and if we break a traffic law, issue a ticket and let us go on our way. Yes, we do need cameras on every officer and it should be illegal to turn them off during the time they are on duty. All videos should be open to public view.
California admitted that it had a history of being more harsh to African-Americans at traffic stops. Why is that mean treatment even necessary? Let us drive in peace where ever we want go and if we break a traffic law, issue a ticket and let us go on our way. Yes, we do need cameras on every officer and it should be illegal to turn them off during the time they are on duty. All videos should be open to public view.
I wonder what the criminal justice system would look like if prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, probation and parole officers and correctional officers all had to wear body cameras?
The militarization of the police forces is another signal of the general attitude of many Police Departments, they feel they are at war with a part, or maybe, all of society and act accordingly.
3
We may be living in a police state and not even realizing it. According to the NAACP, when you combine the "number of people in prison and jail with those under parole or probation supervision, 1 in ever y 31 adults, or 3.2 percent of the population is under some form of correctional control." It gets worse. African Americans and Hispanics constitute nearly 60% of the prison population.
The police state were living in is one that we created. It's built on racism, and willful ignorance of the truth.
The police state were living in is one that we created. It's built on racism, and willful ignorance of the truth.
1
When we look at statistics we see criminal charges and convictions are consistently disproportionally high for the poor but also for African Americans and Hispanics. Is it because police and prosecutors are applying laws according to racial biases or are distressed communities more likely to experience more criminal behaviors. These highly publicized cases with videos suggest that the problem is biased police. The police are perceived by the reporters and social critics to be systematically intolerant of people who appear to be African American or Hispanic, reacting to them without the understanding that they routinely offer all others. But in most of these cases the facts indicate that the police were confronted with individuals who were acting unreasonably and whose subsequent actions were not predictable. In each, the police officers reacted to the worst possibilities, and people died. In each case the question of overreactions and of motives of the officers really were unclear, and needed to be determined in court, but guilt was not so clear as to justify the reaction in the media.
Police who do abide by high standards of behavior should welcome the cameras, too. If Brian Encinia had not taken Sandra Bland out of range of the camera, and then claim that she "assaulted" him, we might not doubt that she did. (Why DID he do that, anyway?)
3
To avoid putting the two of them in danger by staying in an active roadway? JUst sayin'?
Maybe it's time to rethink training and making the police force more professional. We may not be getting people with the maturity and common sense to work in positions with so much responsibility.
I'm as law-abiding as they come, and have had both positive and negative interactions with police. On the positive side, I have received very useful help one time my car broke down. I also now live in a small town, and the cops wave at me when I walk. On the negative side, when I lived in a large metro area I was profiled several times, although at least in one occasion the cop apologized after realizing he harassed the wrong person. They never got violent with me, but had a very adversarial position for no good reason.
I'm as law-abiding as they come, and have had both positive and negative interactions with police. On the positive side, I have received very useful help one time my car broke down. I also now live in a small town, and the cops wave at me when I walk. On the negative side, when I lived in a large metro area I was profiled several times, although at least in one occasion the cop apologized after realizing he harassed the wrong person. They never got violent with me, but had a very adversarial position for no good reason.
3
There also needs to be enforcement of regulations or laws requiring that all police activity be recorded on the body or dashboard cameras. I've noticed several incidents where all or a portion of the interaction was off camera, and in at least one case where an officers camera was out of space so no recording was available. Being offstage is more relevant to dash cams, but technical lapses could affect both dash cams and body cams. I believe that if we are going to rely on these cameras, it should be a serious offense for any action taken during duty hours not to be videoed, especially interactions with the public.
It should be clear to all by now that any interaction with the police, no matter how inconsequential, carries with it a potential death sentence.
2
‘We just won’t put ourselves in bad situations,’ that they say, ‘We are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’
Isn't that the point? Stopping over-active enforcement of minor stuff?
Isn't that the point? Stopping over-active enforcement of minor stuff?
1
I want video cameras everywhere. On buildings, on streets and on police officers. Those who are afraid of "big brother watching them" should be more afraid of big brother shooting or beating them without the cameras.
As far as I am concerned, all public places should be video taped in high resolution with sound included.
As far as I am concerned, all public places should be video taped in high resolution with sound included.
1
People outside the criminal justice system don't seem to realize that the shooting of criminal suspects are not isolated events, localized problems in hiring good men, or trouble with training. They are routine throughout the country. They are routine because police distrust the legal system, and are taking the law into their own hands. Even though we have an epidemic of false convictions -- every month or so someone on death row is found innocent through DNA testing -- police always tend to think they are on the side of "truth," and that every suspect (especially if he is black, but that's another story) is guilty. Since arrest and trial is no guarantee of punishment, especially if police have busted down a door without a warrant, not allowed a suspect to call his attorney, or somehow else violated a suspect's constitutional rights, the best way to deliver justice is to do it themselves. They are frustrated with the process of learning how to be good cops and perform lawful investigations. Shooting criminal suspects dead or beating them bloody will never be found as part of a formal training manual, and police departments will deny it, but aggression, injury and death of suspects is in most cases condoned by superiors and colleagues, most of whom will say whatever needs to be said to support it. As a state highway patrolman once explained to me, "Dead men don't testify."
2
interestingly it always seems to be the black folks ...
2
Police do not treat minorities and whites equal. Even black officers show bias, because the caste system is alive and well in 2015. Does it matter that a police force has black officers? No. Police routinely target low income (mainly black) neighborhoods and areas that are easy pickings for arrests. Imagine if those same police forces started patrolling middle or upper class white neighborhoods. There would be outrage! It just wouldn't happen. And the thing is study after study shows that whites use drugs as much if not more than minorities. Yet, a majority of the arrests are blacks.
Politicians can talk all they want, but until the Federal and State incarceration policies along with the legal Federal payments made to police forces for battling the 'War on Drugs' (a much failed War) are drastically reformed then things will continue as they are now. Talk is cheap.
Politicians can talk all they want, but until the Federal and State incarceration policies along with the legal Federal payments made to police forces for battling the 'War on Drugs' (a much failed War) are drastically reformed then things will continue as they are now. Talk is cheap.
2
Like Eddie Sutton, the police go to where the crime is, simple as that. It often happens in poor communities. Minorities are over-represented in those communities. Do the math.
The central problem is that when police enforce the laws with people who refuse to submit, police are obliged to force them to submit, which may lead to potentially life threatening situations which result in deadly force. Police are going to apply enough force to avoid being harmed even if the threat is only possible.
What the videos show is that police do not read people's minds, that some people fail to act civilly with police but expect police to let them do as they please or to bring them around without applying force, that police may make questionable choices, that they can be intolerant and overreact, and that sometimes they kill people under circumstances that seem less than justified. Whether those who act poorly are typical or exceptions cannot be determined by the sample of incidents which have been covered in the news is far from conclusive. It is also the case that without exception, the common theme, which is why they are being reported, is that the story is that police targeted people for unjust treatment because of their race. In each case, as the facts come to light, it proves to be unclear what really occurred and why, because the story is not exactly what was expected. It also reveals that many people expect police to perform with the kind of omniscience and omnipotence which allows instantaneous appreciation of uncooperative behaviors and to act with perfect understanding that avoids all poor outcomes while fulfilling their responsibilities.
What the videos show is that police do not read people's minds, that some people fail to act civilly with police but expect police to let them do as they please or to bring them around without applying force, that police may make questionable choices, that they can be intolerant and overreact, and that sometimes they kill people under circumstances that seem less than justified. Whether those who act poorly are typical or exceptions cannot be determined by the sample of incidents which have been covered in the news is far from conclusive. It is also the case that without exception, the common theme, which is why they are being reported, is that the story is that police targeted people for unjust treatment because of their race. In each case, as the facts come to light, it proves to be unclear what really occurred and why, because the story is not exactly what was expected. It also reveals that many people expect police to perform with the kind of omniscience and omnipotence which allows instantaneous appreciation of uncooperative behaviors and to act with perfect understanding that avoids all poor outcomes while fulfilling their responsibilities.
3
Hmm Guess it's a racial thing. Maybe more minorities should be joining to protect their communities rather than destroy them. Isn't it funny that, out of all the minorities in this country, only one seems to be "suffering" many more times than all others combined? I guess that's because the others don't see police as a threat, listen to instructions, and don't have a chip on their shoulders.
4
So you agree with the cops that if a black person does not respond the way the cop wants, the cop can kill the black person? Do you think this is part of the reason why black people do not respect cops? I am an old white lady and I'm afraid of cops. They could kill me. For no reason. And get away with it.
It would be a tremendous public service for the NYT to report on the training programs of the officers. How much of it is as 'public servants of peace' vs counter-terrorism training? What foreign countries and domestic 'non-profits" are involved and more importantly why? What for-profit corporations are making billions for the training and on the supply end? What are oversights? Which people in top corporate and government agencies plus law enforcement are deciding on training? These executions and brutalization of our citizens are commonly seen in war zones, dictatorships of all genres, countries where anarchy runs rampant and occupied territories. There is systemic rot from the top down for these murders, etc to be commonplace. The tone of workplaces are always set from the top leadership; the overwhelming majority of citizens who must work to survive know that.
Add to the putrid pot, our country having the largest prison population in the world. What happened to the land of the free??? Has it been outsourced for profit too????
Add to the putrid pot, our country having the largest prison population in the world. What happened to the land of the free??? Has it been outsourced for profit too????
1
I think your idea is great. In my opinion, the solution to our so-called police problem is: supervision. I am sure that the police already have a command structure. You know, patrolman, sergeant, lieutenant, captain and so on. If enough of the sergeants and above get out in the field for long periods of time and get to the trouble spots quickly, they can intervene in touchy situations and correct problems immediately. Along with person-to-person training I think supervision will go a long way in solving a lot, but not all, of the problems.
"There is, however, no precise accounting of the number of people killed by police officers each year."
"“We don’t want to rush to judgment simply because of what the video shows,”
Is there really, in this day and age, a reason for NOT recording the total number of deaths caused by police shootings? And if I were caught on tape perpetrating a crime would the second statement to a jury have any significance?
I find these two statements very illuminating.
"“We don’t want to rush to judgment simply because of what the video shows,”
Is there really, in this day and age, a reason for NOT recording the total number of deaths caused by police shootings? And if I were caught on tape perpetrating a crime would the second statement to a jury have any significance?
I find these two statements very illuminating.
2
The Washington Post did an extensive survey using all the methods they could muster and they concluded that 559 people have been killed by police officers across America SO FAR THIS YEAR alone. This is a shocking number.
"(There is, however, no precise accounting of the number of people killed by police officers each year.)"
Actually there's a pretty comprehensive accounting over at The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counte...
I believe that The New York Times is well aware of The Guardian's accounting and find the above parenthetical statement deliberately misleading.
Actually there's a pretty comprehensive accounting over at The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counte...
I believe that The New York Times is well aware of The Guardian's accounting and find the above parenthetical statement deliberately misleading.
It sounds like indivudal states need to ban pretextual stops, which allow, permit, enable, encourage dishonest and lying cops. See, the Whren v. United States (1996). This is perhaps a key reason why our cops are out of control.
The following recording from Know My Rights. org on the pretextual stops is apt. "Don't consent to the search."
http://www.knowmyrights.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl...
Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806 (1996)[1], was a unanimous United States Supreme Court decision[1] that "declared that any traffic offense committed by a driver was a legitimate legal basis for a stop."[2]
The case's Supreme Court syllabus states that the court held that "the temporary detention of a motorist upon probable cause to believe that he has violated the traffic laws does not violate the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable seizures, even if a reasonable officer would not have stopped the motorist absent some additional law enforcement objective." In other words, it does not matter if the traffic stop was pretextual, so long as there was independent justification for the stop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States
The following recording from Know My Rights. org on the pretextual stops is apt. "Don't consent to the search."
http://www.knowmyrights.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl...
Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806 (1996)[1], was a unanimous United States Supreme Court decision[1] that "declared that any traffic offense committed by a driver was a legitimate legal basis for a stop."[2]
The case's Supreme Court syllabus states that the court held that "the temporary detention of a motorist upon probable cause to believe that he has violated the traffic laws does not violate the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable seizures, even if a reasonable officer would not have stopped the motorist absent some additional law enforcement objective." In other words, it does not matter if the traffic stop was pretextual, so long as there was independent justification for the stop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States
I'm not sure how this would be done but I would really be interested in what" cop reporters" have to say in all this discussion about police and violence against people of color and what is really happening in the streets. Obviously, cop reporters who are suppose to be on top of the nitty gritty of their beats have been doing a less than stellar job, one would think, in light of what is being revealed and re-thought because of dashboard and body cams. Is reporting on cops/police departments going to be spruced up in light of all this discussion?
The recent videos of police capture the what but not the why behind many of these violent encounters with police and people of color. With violent crime rates going down across the country and gun violence subsiding in most cities, why are white police officers more on edge, more prone to draw their weapon and more prone to fire, even when someone is running away and posses no immediate threat to them?
I think the answer lies at least in part in the not so subtle message about race in society much of which comes from our political leadership and the media. We are constantly reminded that we are waging a "war on drugs," or a "war on crime." We then dress and arm the police like soldiers replete with helmets, automatic weapons and armored vehicles. The courts reduce the protections of the 4th amendment and the media and the politicians hyperventilate over the constant threat of terrorism.
Add to this mix the unconscious racial bias that has been well documented and the fact that police departments don't do racial bias training and you have a mix where police become militarized and people of color become the enemy. And as in warfare their tendency has tilted toward massive use of firepower rather than policing skills.
You can't have a "war on crime" without an enemy and as a result whole communities have been transformed into threat zones, enemy territory where threats real and imagined are everywhere. This has turned them from a police force to an occupation force.
I think the answer lies at least in part in the not so subtle message about race in society much of which comes from our political leadership and the media. We are constantly reminded that we are waging a "war on drugs," or a "war on crime." We then dress and arm the police like soldiers replete with helmets, automatic weapons and armored vehicles. The courts reduce the protections of the 4th amendment and the media and the politicians hyperventilate over the constant threat of terrorism.
Add to this mix the unconscious racial bias that has been well documented and the fact that police departments don't do racial bias training and you have a mix where police become militarized and people of color become the enemy. And as in warfare their tendency has tilted toward massive use of firepower rather than policing skills.
You can't have a "war on crime" without an enemy and as a result whole communities have been transformed into threat zones, enemy territory where threats real and imagined are everywhere. This has turned them from a police force to an occupation force.
58
People need to think this through. Nothing wrong with cameras. And whenever anyone of any color, gender, sexual persuasion, ethnicity etc. dies unnecessarily while interacting with police, that is a tragedy.
However -- police make millions of traffic stops annually. According to the DOJ the % by race are representative of the population. Criminal arrests of Blacks annually are over 3 million so perhaps 5 - 6 million Blacks (estimated) are stopped by police each year.
How many of these end in death? Obviously, a very small % -- although the number varies by source, annual Black deaths at the hands of police are probably between 100-200. Many of these are justified -- just as are the killings of whites by police -- so the number of questionable incidents of police killings of Blacks is a fraction of that number. Millions of police-Black interactions end peacefully; the ones that don't are rare and the questionable ones more rare. Of the high profile cases over the last year, most involved resistance on the part of the victim (Michael Brown attacked the officer, Eric Garner resisted arrest and died accidentally, etc.) so the entire notion that Police are targeting and killing Blacks is not supported by the data.
Deaths like those Michael Brown's and Samuel Dubose are tragedies. But those indicting cops generally as racist, ill trained, etc. are wrong and trying to gain (politically, economically, personally) and are fanning flames when there is no fire
However -- police make millions of traffic stops annually. According to the DOJ the % by race are representative of the population. Criminal arrests of Blacks annually are over 3 million so perhaps 5 - 6 million Blacks (estimated) are stopped by police each year.
How many of these end in death? Obviously, a very small % -- although the number varies by source, annual Black deaths at the hands of police are probably between 100-200. Many of these are justified -- just as are the killings of whites by police -- so the number of questionable incidents of police killings of Blacks is a fraction of that number. Millions of police-Black interactions end peacefully; the ones that don't are rare and the questionable ones more rare. Of the high profile cases over the last year, most involved resistance on the part of the victim (Michael Brown attacked the officer, Eric Garner resisted arrest and died accidentally, etc.) so the entire notion that Police are targeting and killing Blacks is not supported by the data.
Deaths like those Michael Brown's and Samuel Dubose are tragedies. But those indicting cops generally as racist, ill trained, etc. are wrong and trying to gain (politically, economically, personally) and are fanning flames when there is no fire
4
This is like drawing an opinion about the benefits of antibiotics by just watching videos of people having severe allergic reactions to penicillin. Maybe we got to watch the 99.9% of police encounters that show community outreach and heroism we might not be so worked up. This is the fault of a thoughtless media.
3
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. We have armed our police officers to the hilt. We have lionized them and put them beyond reproach. We are in a state of perpetual war - war on drugs, war on terrorism, etc.... We don't support common sense gun control. And now we express dismay at what is happening????
1
In addition to body cameras on police officers, the FBI or some other group should conduct undercover investigations to see if police officers are comporting themselves in ways that protect and do not harm the public they are sworn to serve.
Every police department should be made to understand that the black man in a vehicle might be an undercover FBI agent. Missing a license plate or a turn signal or pretending to be homeless or... We need information. We need ongoing investigations. We check restaurants for Heath. Elevators and bridges are checked. Fire departments check on the safety of buildings. Should be same with police departments.
Body cameras are a good place to start. But as a citizen I now want to be sure that the police treat all of us with respect. That they do not conspire against people or use violence as a personal solution to emotional immaturity. And unless we have evidence, including undercover investigations, I am not gonna be satisfied.
Every police department should be made to understand that the black man in a vehicle might be an undercover FBI agent. Missing a license plate or a turn signal or pretending to be homeless or... We need information. We need ongoing investigations. We check restaurants for Heath. Elevators and bridges are checked. Fire departments check on the safety of buildings. Should be same with police departments.
Body cameras are a good place to start. But as a citizen I now want to be sure that the police treat all of us with respect. That they do not conspire against people or use violence as a personal solution to emotional immaturity. And unless we have evidence, including undercover investigations, I am not gonna be satisfied.
1
The police test takes about 4 hours. Here is a sample question:
You respond to a noise complaint, the street is barricaded and a block party appears to be in progress. You know that police Chief Jones lives in this area. You:
1.) Arrest the noise maker.
2.) Draw your gun and walk through the crowd.
3.) Contact your shift supervisor and ask for advice.
That was a question on the test. I picked 3. But it had the ring of 'this is a club with rules'. Personally, I'd let the kids wear my hat and sound the siren but that's not being a team player, and in police work, you want everyone on the same team. That's why 4 were indicted a few months ago, and only one van was used. A lawyer would tell you no good can come from talking with the police. Stay silent, it's your right but it's also a long ride between your bedroom and the station. My mother's glasses are missing, did you steal my mother's glasses? I think he's the guy who stole my mother's glasses. "Your mother's glasses? We better take a left here."
The End.
You respond to a noise complaint, the street is barricaded and a block party appears to be in progress. You know that police Chief Jones lives in this area. You:
1.) Arrest the noise maker.
2.) Draw your gun and walk through the crowd.
3.) Contact your shift supervisor and ask for advice.
That was a question on the test. I picked 3. But it had the ring of 'this is a club with rules'. Personally, I'd let the kids wear my hat and sound the siren but that's not being a team player, and in police work, you want everyone on the same team. That's why 4 were indicted a few months ago, and only one van was used. A lawyer would tell you no good can come from talking with the police. Stay silent, it's your right but it's also a long ride between your bedroom and the station. My mother's glasses are missing, did you steal my mother's glasses? I think he's the guy who stole my mother's glasses. "Your mother's glasses? We better take a left here."
The End.
1
Imagine how many citizens have been treated in this manner. Since 911 law enforcement has way too much power. I am an uncooperative person and the last thing I need is a needless encounter with a police officer. Now, I realize a police officer has a difficult job and not just anyone can be in this profession, but deceit and lying is out of control. imagine the number of innocent citizen have been mistreated.
Secondly, if I were a police captain, I would have weekly meetings with my officers to ensure they treat the citizens with respect and don't take out anger or aggression against the public.
Secondly, if I were a police captain, I would have weekly meetings with my officers to ensure they treat the citizens with respect and don't take out anger or aggression against the public.
2
Citizen-generated and body-cam video will help shift awareness about bad-apple cops. However, the stats regarding officer-deaths while conducting road-side stops are also alarming. The current media coverage is long on the first theme and short on the second. Solutions for BOTH of these must be sought simultaneously. A good place to start would be with equal coverage.
2
It would be great if the NYT did an investigation into the rate of police murders of black civilians BEFORE this year. Has the rate gone up or is it that videos are capturing what has been an entrenched pattern of racist brutality?
1
Real cops are deadly enough and then there are the rent a cops. Maybe police hiring should start with an IQ and empathy test as today's cops consider the public as the enemy number one. They role into the street with an attitude of hunters rather than protectors of the people. I once sat in on a LA Sheriffs Department hiring interview. Many of the applicants being accepted to move forward in the hiring process I wouldn't trust with a water pistol. Today the police are the last call I would make for help, if at all. Today police only make our lives worse. Most adults and their children I know do not trust the police and look at them as tools of our capitalist state of insanity.
1
Video and pictures is very poor evidence and proves absolutely nothing in capital cases.
1
What draws people to certain professions? Is policing really a "helping" profession? Like social work, nursing, teaching? As a society we need to consider this. Very carefully.
The question must be asked. Are certain character types drawn to policing? because we obviously aren't, as a society, calling for body cameras on teachers, therapists, nurses and others in the "helping" professions, are we?
What we seem to be learning is that, even with body cameras and vehicle cameras, certain police officers have chips on their shoulders, expect instant obedience, get really upset very easily, and seem to lack control over their emotions, escalating incidents to the point of violence, even murder. All in front of cameras! And even in front of fellow officers! When then help them fabricate a cover-up!
This is what we are learning.
Self-control. Truthfulness. These characteristics must be screened for when it comes to policing. Because the danger is that a need to dominate, an authoritarian knee-jerk reaction in the face of hurt feelings, is not serving the public! Evidence of police deceit and conspiracy to hide violence against citizens is not serving the public. Bigotry is not serving the public.
So what exactly is the job of a police officer? The military, at least, expects a lot of obience up and down the chain of command. It can even try and jail its own.
Policing should not feel - to the public - like some sort of military occupation.
The question must be asked. Are certain character types drawn to policing? because we obviously aren't, as a society, calling for body cameras on teachers, therapists, nurses and others in the "helping" professions, are we?
What we seem to be learning is that, even with body cameras and vehicle cameras, certain police officers have chips on their shoulders, expect instant obedience, get really upset very easily, and seem to lack control over their emotions, escalating incidents to the point of violence, even murder. All in front of cameras! And even in front of fellow officers! When then help them fabricate a cover-up!
This is what we are learning.
Self-control. Truthfulness. These characteristics must be screened for when it comes to policing. Because the danger is that a need to dominate, an authoritarian knee-jerk reaction in the face of hurt feelings, is not serving the public! Evidence of police deceit and conspiracy to hide violence against citizens is not serving the public. Bigotry is not serving the public.
So what exactly is the job of a police officer? The military, at least, expects a lot of obience up and down the chain of command. It can even try and jail its own.
Policing should not feel - to the public - like some sort of military occupation.
16
While much of what police do involves social interactions and addressing the psychological issues which drive people's behavior with others, police must act against the will of people, to force them to comply or to apprehend them for not complying with clearly defined laws. People who cannot act decisively under uncertainty in dangerous situations end up being victims or doing nothing when it counts. People who lose their heads under pressure misjudge what the appropriate action happens to be and either overreact or underreact. People who must act in certain ways which places them at risk for no direct benefit to themselves must be conditioned to act as do soldiers, which means a lot of what police do requires the same frame of mind.
No, police are NOT among the "helping" professions, like social workers, nurses, or teachers. That is a naive and even childish view.
You ask, "What exactly is the job of a police officer?" The job of the police is to enforce the criminal law, maintain public order, investigate crime, and protect the public. The police are part of the executive branch of government. Sure, the police "help" people by enforcing the law, maintaining order, and protecting the public, but "helping" is not their primary function. (And like the military, obedience within the chain of command is expected.)
I agree that because of the nature of this job, people like the ones you describe (authoritarian, with chips on their shoulders, etc.) are likely to be drawn to police work and that applicants with these characteristics should be screened out. I'm not sure how this would be done (or even if it is already done by some departments). It would be nice if the Times published an informative story about how applicants are selected and what kind of training police get. I would not be surprised to learn that there is a lot of variation among different jurisdictions and kinds of police departments.
You ask, "What exactly is the job of a police officer?" The job of the police is to enforce the criminal law, maintain public order, investigate crime, and protect the public. The police are part of the executive branch of government. Sure, the police "help" people by enforcing the law, maintaining order, and protecting the public, but "helping" is not their primary function. (And like the military, obedience within the chain of command is expected.)
I agree that because of the nature of this job, people like the ones you describe (authoritarian, with chips on their shoulders, etc.) are likely to be drawn to police work and that applicants with these characteristics should be screened out. I'm not sure how this would be done (or even if it is already done by some departments). It would be nice if the Times published an informative story about how applicants are selected and what kind of training police get. I would not be surprised to learn that there is a lot of variation among different jurisdictions and kinds of police departments.
Videos do confirm that a large sector of our society does not think that they need to cooperate with a simple police investigation. As result many are arrested, injured, or otherwise stopped from evading the law further before an investigation is completed. What compels me to cooperate with police when contacted? As a law abiding citizen, albeit non-Black, I am smart enough to recognize that successful investigations by them make my neighborhood or the neighborhood I am passing through a safer place. Thank you officers, from the bottom of my heart.
7
I am pretty sure this whole non-black thing is just baiting. I am non-black and I do not share your underlying assumptions and am appaled that the tenor of these sort of posts escalate to more and more overt rascism. Way to go moderators
oh thank you for shooting that dangerous man in the head! He couldn't produce a driver's license! Kill him!
Miriam, I have read a few of your comments and disagreement is acceptable.
What I find disturbing about the coverage of this latest and similar situations is the lack of context. The Times just jumps into the popular black-white narrative in story after story, with daily updates and superficial "analysis". Well, my understanding is that the Times does employ some investigative reporters. Could one of them not spare a few hours to dig into the public records to see if there is are similar incidents involving white, Asian, or Hispanic suspects/victims? If so, what is the incidence of police violence relative to ethnicity? Or do only black victims make the news because those cases fit the prevailing "narrative"?
Don't mistake me. It is absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of one group. But is not an organization with the reputation of the Times capable of digging a little deeper into this issue and actually putting some data behind its assumptions? If you have already done so and I have missed it, I apologize.
Don't mistake me. It is absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of one group. But is not an organization with the reputation of the Times capable of digging a little deeper into this issue and actually putting some data behind its assumptions? If you have already done so and I have missed it, I apologize.
9
I'm afraid you have missed it. I have read many articles on the disparity of policing. Both blacks and Hispanics are arrested, prosecuted, convicted, incarcerated and yes, mistreated more than whites.
Good point. The evidence is, that the cops abuse whoever seems weak, poor. So they go for the obviously weak who seem not to have lawyers.
It is absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of one group
Is it absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of everybody who sasses the cops -- unless the accused had a few million bucks to pay lawyers? Huh?
It's not one group, it's everybody. If you are poor - a year or two at Rikers, If you have a few million, well, you have a few less million, but you can run for Congress, or POTUS
It is absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of one group
Is it absolutely unacceptable if there is demonstrated disproportionate victimization of everybody who sasses the cops -- unless the accused had a few million bucks to pay lawyers? Huh?
It's not one group, it's everybody. If you are poor - a year or two at Rikers, If you have a few million, well, you have a few less million, but you can run for Congress, or POTUS
let's "be" the people shown on the video facing the barrel of a gun, yanked out of their reality, fleeing for their lives or dragged to their deaths. I'm in awe of those citizens who ask a question, are roughly rebuked, who manage to remain calm ... they've learned through what can only be multiple experiences to survive the disrespect of people who are lawfully allowed to shoot to kill...many unatmed citizens are not so lucky.
4
Having witnessed too many obvious grown-up school yard bullies in action as police on power trips, I am constantly reminded that power corrupts. I noticed years ago that every person pulled over on a certain busy strip in the next town were people with shabby cars and darker skin. I heard the denials of racial profiling until an audit showed that - oh my - there was indeed racial profiling going on. I'm a white woman and I don't trust the police any more than i trust anyone else with a uniform, a badge, a gun and the idea that he or she is somehow entitled to tell me what to do.
6
In my opinion, the police would not have to use as much force as they do, if we the people did not give them a reason to. Some officers have no reason to use the force that they use, but the officers using the right force have every reason to make the arrest, and even tackle a few people.
3
Step ot of line, and the man he will take you away - as paraphrased For What its Worth. Nope not going to live that way nor do I want anyone else too. The goal post will shift to ever more oppresive if we do. Do thing anything can satisfy people on a power trip?
I know plenty of cops- good, bad and indifferent ones. Very few of them don't want body cameras. The cameras protect them from the constant lies that people make up when they are confronted. It is amazing how people change their story when they are confronted with pictures of themselves.
Many of the comments here are so anti-cop that I don't know how these problems will ever be solved. The pendulum will swing the other way sooner or later. In the meantime cops will become stenographers and take your report, crime will slowly rise; and who benefits? Do you really believe that cops get up in the morning and look for someone to shoot? If so, no one or nothing will change your mind. Society has never liked cops and probably never will.
Many of the comments here are so anti-cop that I don't know how these problems will ever be solved. The pendulum will swing the other way sooner or later. In the meantime cops will become stenographers and take your report, crime will slowly rise; and who benefits? Do you really believe that cops get up in the morning and look for someone to shoot? If so, no one or nothing will change your mind. Society has never liked cops and probably never will.
8
Maybe the comments are not anti-cop, but a real lack of justice? Where else can you be caught red handed on tape and still walk with the support of your colleagues, the DA and the judges?
How is it that police across the entire country have been lead to believe that they can act with impunity, that citizens are to be regarded as criminals and officers needn't engage on a human level? This is clearly an element of training curriculum for the police. It's a pathetic situation, small minds with Star Wars gear terrorize the very people that pay their salaries.
3
I'm sure I'll be denounced on this board as some kind of police misbehavior apologist or perhaps even a racist but I'm not convinced, based on this body cam video, that this officer in Cincinnati was 100% unjustified in shooting Mr. DuBose.
It's difficult to see precisely what happens in the seconds before the shot went off but it is very clear that whatever Mr. DuBose did do (slam the car door into the officer? reach for something while pushing the door into the officer?) created an immediate air of unpredictability and danger. At this point, the officer has NO IDEA if Mr. DuBose is armed, not idea what Mr. DuBose's intentions are, no idea if he's about to get shot or knifed or smashed into with Mr. DuBose's vehicle.
What if Mr. DuBose did pull a weapon from the side of his seat and shoot the officer? That's an entirely real possibility from the officer's perspective. Should the officer wait a split second and see if Mr. DuBose is going to do just that? Wait for a knife to be brandished?
Mr. DuBose would be alive today had he simply removed his seatbelt and agreed to exit the vehicle.
It's difficult to see precisely what happens in the seconds before the shot went off but it is very clear that whatever Mr. DuBose did do (slam the car door into the officer? reach for something while pushing the door into the officer?) created an immediate air of unpredictability and danger. At this point, the officer has NO IDEA if Mr. DuBose is armed, not idea what Mr. DuBose's intentions are, no idea if he's about to get shot or knifed or smashed into with Mr. DuBose's vehicle.
What if Mr. DuBose did pull a weapon from the side of his seat and shoot the officer? That's an entirely real possibility from the officer's perspective. Should the officer wait a split second and see if Mr. DuBose is going to do just that? Wait for a knife to be brandished?
Mr. DuBose would be alive today had he simply removed his seatbelt and agreed to exit the vehicle.
7
Let's see: He didn't remove his seatbelt, open the door or show his license = Shoot him in the head.
Yeah Lucian - I sure hope you aren't in any form of management or control as an occupation.
Yeah Lucian - I sure hope you aren't in any form of management or control as an occupation.
Possibly, if I had no deadly weapon, an officer might rightly assume that I "might" have a deadly weapon and shoot me dead.
So what? I'm supposed to figure out what some loser in some uniform (which might be false) tells me do this do that or die?
This is so crazy - no threat, just submit to "what?" or die.
No no no no.
So what? I'm supposed to figure out what some loser in some uniform (which might be false) tells me do this do that or die?
This is so crazy - no threat, just submit to "what?" or die.
No no no no.
I just read about another murder-- this time an officer shot his girlfriend, and he is going free. I don't buy his innocence. Unfortunately, no body camera off duty. Yep, this woman just happened to kill herself with his service revolver on the night she was breaking up and moving out for good. She just decided, hey wait, it's me, not you! And a relative cop is playing along just so he can have his job back. What a completely sick culture. Guess what? We aren't that stupid. We know you scrubbed your prints, and set up the scene. Why else would your own prints not be on your revolver? And we know your comrades know the truth. It's disgusting. It is a very good thing that the public is finally weighing in on what has become a culture of violence against others with impunity.
8
While African Americans have certainly been the most prevalent victims of police abuse, the problem extends to other citizens as well. Local police, in particular, often appear to be your high school bully—in uniform. Some years ago, my wife was stopped for a minor traffic infraction on a lonely rural road, and the officer insisted on "discussing" this with her by moving into the front seat of the car. That officer was much later dismissed from the force after numerous complaints about him. In Florida, not long ago, I was stopped for allegedly driving way over the speed limit (my cruise control was set far lower than the ticket stated), and handed a ticket for over $500. When I opened my door to step out and question this outrageous penalty, the officer assumed a threatening posture and ordered me to stay where I was. I can imagine what might have happened to me if I had been black. Body cameras will help, but something must be done to remove from our local police officers bullies who should never be allowed to wield armed authority over their neighbors.
122
Getting out of your car is absolutely a "threatening posture" to a Police Officer. Google Tony Zeppetella and read what happened to one of my town's Officers when the person he stopped appeared to "step out and question this outrageous penalty." There are many dashcam videos of Officers being murdered in the line of duty under the exact same situation you described. I urge you to do some actual research. Try Policeone.com and/or Forcescience.org
Some people are not meant to be police officers. But they are. They wear the badge and they carry the gun. They go unchecked, unpunished, and are always believed because a police officer would never lie.
We need a massive overhaul of our police departments across the nation. The bad cops need to be weeded out and kicked to the curb. The only way this is going to happen is by the GOOD POLICE OFFICERS SPEAKING UP. If they truly believe in right and wrong, they'll do the right thing and turn in their law-breaking partners.
We need a massive overhaul of our police departments across the nation. The bad cops need to be weeded out and kicked to the curb. The only way this is going to happen is by the GOOD POLICE OFFICERS SPEAKING UP. If they truly believe in right and wrong, they'll do the right thing and turn in their law-breaking partners.
A number of years back, a gentleman in CT applied to a state agency to become a police officer. He was rejected because he had an IQ of 125. A conservative commentator once posted that every time he is stopped by a law enforcement officer, he has to remind himself he is dealing with a high school graduate with a marginal level of intelligence and a gun.
Many of the horrific police encounters that make the news are vehicle related, whether it is Sovereign State fanatics, who are always white, ambushing cops or cops with attitudes killing civilians, who are almost always not white.
As traffic stops appear to be a major source of citizen - officer confrontation, it seems logical to reduce the number of stops. Unfortunately, cops have quotas and they are evaluated on the basis meeting them. Municipalities build traffic fines into their budgets. Folks who drive expensive cars get warnings, if they are stopped at all. Folks who drive rent-a-wrecks get tickets. Cops also troll that population for outstanding warrants; again - quotas.
If I drive through an EZ Pass monitor without an EZ Pass transmitter, I get a bill in the mail. If I bust a red light at a camera monitored intersection, I get a citation in the mail. The technology obviously exists to reduce traffic stops, yet we provide agencies with armored Humvees instead.
It is our priorities that are out of whack, and we are placing both civilians and officers at risk because of them.
Many of the horrific police encounters that make the news are vehicle related, whether it is Sovereign State fanatics, who are always white, ambushing cops or cops with attitudes killing civilians, who are almost always not white.
As traffic stops appear to be a major source of citizen - officer confrontation, it seems logical to reduce the number of stops. Unfortunately, cops have quotas and they are evaluated on the basis meeting them. Municipalities build traffic fines into their budgets. Folks who drive expensive cars get warnings, if they are stopped at all. Folks who drive rent-a-wrecks get tickets. Cops also troll that population for outstanding warrants; again - quotas.
If I drive through an EZ Pass monitor without an EZ Pass transmitter, I get a bill in the mail. If I bust a red light at a camera monitored intersection, I get a citation in the mail. The technology obviously exists to reduce traffic stops, yet we provide agencies with armored Humvees instead.
It is our priorities that are out of whack, and we are placing both civilians and officers at risk because of them.
11
One can understand why the Cincinnati prosecutor opted not to release the other video of the Samuel DuBose incident, but what is the New York Times excuse for not posting the video" Made by Officer Phillip Kidd's body cam as he ran toward DuBose's car, this video provides what some consider exculpatory evidence. It shows Officer Tensing on the ground beside DuBose's car as DuBose pulls away. Tensing's lawyer says it proves Tensing was dragged for a short distance.
3
I don't know what video you saw, but the Officer Kidd as well as Lindenschmidt videos released to the public show no such evidence. On the contrary, their own videos actually show them lying in order to cover for Tensing. At no time does Kidd's video (which interestingly has 0 audio for the first crucial 21 seconds) show Tensing on the ground or being dragged in any way. Stop with this false narrative.
maybe it "proves" that the officer fell backward after discharging his weapon.
In many cities, huge amounts of money have been awarded in judgements against police. In 2013 alone, Chicago taxpayers paid out settlements, judgements and court costs related to lawsuits against police brutality to the tune of 86.4 million dollars. Big money judgements against the police have been happening all over the country. Racism within police ranks persists yet is probably no better nor worse than that within the general public. What is worse is the police sense of entitlement and justification to use force. It would seem to me that there is a very simple way to end police brutality whether against blacks or any other individuals. Whenever there is a judgement against the police in a police brutality case, the money should come directly out of the police department coffers rather than from the given city's general operating budget. Police captains would quickly dismiss officers at the first sign of brutality as police departments would not want to see their budgets shrink and their pensions at risk. Such policies would be fought tooth and nail by police unions but I don't see another solution.
8
I know recent events showing trigger happy cops which result in loss of life seem shocking to so many white people. For me all I can say is better late than never in addressing this issue which is NOT a recent phenomenon. For years and years black people have been complaining about the inequality of our justice system and the blatant continuation of de facto JIM Crow laws.
As my husband says frequently, " just because I am paranoid does not mean they are not after me." Every time he says it I laugh, but it is not a happy kind of laugh.
As my husband says frequently, " just because I am paranoid does not mean they are not after me." Every time he says it I laugh, but it is not a happy kind of laugh.
4
Growing up in New York City this isn't something that is new to me. I have seen close friends and even family stopped by the police over the most silliest of the things. I am glad that the recent events are now bringing to light a very big problem.
5
What the videos are contributing to is a gradual decrease of irrational diatribes on right wing websites in the name of ''defending police'' or debating the validity of hate crime charges in tragedies such a occurred in Charleston. Take a look at FOX this morning and you simply won't see any sign that a murder in Cincinnati ever happened on July 19. You will not see the shooter at the Charleston church, Dylann Roof ever mentioned by name, or the white supremacist groups for which he acted either individually or as an encouraged loose canon. ( "Suspect in Charleston church shooting due in federal court ). Even finding those stories one has to depart from the lead landing page and go searching under "U.S." Under "crime" - a sub-sub heading, yesterday, the story can be found. The red meat crowd is bickering about whether zombies can drag a university cop to his death in their comments, which are sparse compared to Michael Brown's, Freddie Gray's, or Eric Garner's deaths.
In all of the above there were videos, and in all of those videos, except to those spoon fed and distorted by irrelevant video in the case of Ferguson of a prior shoplifting incident, the narrative of police over-reliance upon force, and over reaction to 'feeling' their authority 'disrespected' is evident.
Maybe it's the distraction of Trump that has distracted the Right, or maybe its the difficulty of debating one damning video after another. We'll see.
In all of the above there were videos, and in all of those videos, except to those spoon fed and distorted by irrelevant video in the case of Ferguson of a prior shoplifting incident, the narrative of police over-reliance upon force, and over reaction to 'feeling' their authority 'disrespected' is evident.
Maybe it's the distraction of Trump that has distracted the Right, or maybe its the difficulty of debating one damning video after another. We'll see.
4
It's that they are bullies. That's the right-wing draw these days. They like bullies. They like bullying, from George W's swagger and willingness to "shock and awe" in the bombing of innocent people to Mitt's angry diatribe to billionaires that not enough of our nation's people are hungry or homeless, from the chip-on-the-shoulder claims of persecution (bake a cake? Oh no! why didn't you say "merry Christmas"!!!, etc.) to the mad meanness of Trump, and more. It is their center, their culture, their ethos. And of course they will side with the police who kill. It is entirely predictable, and most of what they think and do is, as well. What would a bully do and want? Ask that, and you'll know them.
In most professions, the good people in the profession want the bad ones out, and have very little patience for or tolerance of the bad apples. They want to protect the reputation of the profession and the reputation those who practice it.
For some reason, however, those in law enforcement, even the good ones, seem to have an intense desire to protect the bad ones. They lie and fabricate reports to protect their "brothers and sisters", they look the other way when they see misconduct, and in the very rare cases where an officers step forward to report misconduct, they will find themselves ostracized or worse.
The "Blue Wall of Silence and Protection" is exceptionally strong, and it needs to stop.
For some reason, however, those in law enforcement, even the good ones, seem to have an intense desire to protect the bad ones. They lie and fabricate reports to protect their "brothers and sisters", they look the other way when they see misconduct, and in the very rare cases where an officers step forward to report misconduct, they will find themselves ostracized or worse.
The "Blue Wall of Silence and Protection" is exceptionally strong, and it needs to stop.
8
Like others, my strongest reaction upon reading the story is to the comment from the police union official, who rightly points out that millions of civilian-police encounters are made daily without incident. Unfortunately, the implication he is making is that the handful of videos that have emerged showing police wrongdoing represent the totality of those encounters that don't go well. That's most likely not the case. Who knows how many improper encounters go unrecorded and unreported? The mistreatment that makes it to the public eye is likely a small sampling.
4
The cops walk in pairs through the deli in my neighborhood while the owner, a sweet Polish woman makes their sandwiches. They walk into the kitchens, look into her walk-in, lean on the counters. They talk to no one but her as she bags their lunches, huge sandwiches with extra meat and cheese, and charges them a couple of dollars. They smile and wish her a good day as they leave, probably not noticing the look of relief on her face. Every day, two shifts of cops come through. Every day, they talk to no one but her and each other. But we see them; they are not invisible.
8
And your point?
The common denominator in all these police/people interactions is that the public today when stopped by police resist arrest and throw the situation into uncharted dangerous territory. Americas culture has changed in terms of its respect for authority. The civil rights movement of the 1960s and the countless street protests led by left wing democrats and their ilk along with innumerable race riots have indoctrinated the public to the idea that it is their right to resist authority especially the police. Such a cultural change has now resulted in more and more stories about someone being shot or abused by the police, but the fundamental reason for such occurences is the public does not believe the police have any legal right to stopping them or issuing orders to them. All this is just another reason not to vote for any democrats in 2016.
6
I have had numerous interactions with law enforcement -- as a former vendor to that segment. Most are just ordinary people -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. The problem is the ugly are protected. Two situations come to mind. I (petite white female) was walking with a group of about 10 cops and ex cops from from a conference center to the hotel we were all staying in. Guy made an assertion about the technology - I think i said that our product handled it differently. He turned to me and said "I want to cut you up." I literally went cold. The other men hearing him said to me you stay here (on a street corner) and they continued walking with him.
Really?? that is the reaction? you stay here? Not, "what the eff are you saying to her!!" To this day i will never forget the response of those around him -- versus his craziness.
Another instance. At the border returning from Toronto to Buffalo -- at the bridge around midnight, dead of winter. I am the only car at the bridge and the agent says to me, "turn off your car and give me the keys." He and two others proceeded to go through the trunk of my car --laughing and pulling out my kids toys. I sat there scared to death and -- furious that i had to complicit with putting myself in what i considered an unsafe situation. I did call ICE -- and they were ambivalent to what I reported.
It's not just blacks -- it's anyone "they" think "they" can bully. And the others, the good ones, stand silent.
Really?? that is the reaction? you stay here? Not, "what the eff are you saying to her!!" To this day i will never forget the response of those around him -- versus his craziness.
Another instance. At the border returning from Toronto to Buffalo -- at the bridge around midnight, dead of winter. I am the only car at the bridge and the agent says to me, "turn off your car and give me the keys." He and two others proceeded to go through the trunk of my car --laughing and pulling out my kids toys. I sat there scared to death and -- furious that i had to complicit with putting myself in what i considered an unsafe situation. I did call ICE -- and they were ambivalent to what I reported.
It's not just blacks -- it's anyone "they" think "they" can bully. And the others, the good ones, stand silent.
19
When the President says these changes take time I wonder if he realizes we have no more time. I sit and watch the tweets that come out of the offices on the Hill and almost none of them match what we the people worry most about or want change from. Usually it's Boehner on Benghazi, or instead of $15 minimum wage we'll take $12.50. Something benign to prove they did something.
Where is Scott Walker's Union busting team when we need them. The only busting I see the that needs a sledgehammer taken to them are the police unions. And the next time a state decides to defund a food stamp recipient I think their money would be far better spent on drug testing their police force for steroid use. But again it's not the people who work on the Hill who are getting murdered at an alarming rate. Hell police don't even care about cameras that's how out of control it is.
Where is Scott Walker's Union busting team when we need them. The only busting I see the that needs a sledgehammer taken to them are the police unions. And the next time a state decides to defund a food stamp recipient I think their money would be far better spent on drug testing their police force for steroid use. But again it's not the people who work on the Hill who are getting murdered at an alarming rate. Hell police don't even care about cameras that's how out of control it is.
3
WHITE AMERICA, WAKE UP - REALLY!
The US is losing vast quantities of the input and output from black people at all levels as we have to always temper what we do or say with a caution that some out of control white officer may think that his badge gives him the "James Bond" authority to kill. Think of the productivity and creativity that is lost because all these people are frightened on a daily(minute) basis of what they may have to deal with next on a racial interaction with a police officer.
Every black man in America has to allow 20-30% of his attention/energy to just staying alive with the police. These so called "experts" say that they cannot really show any proof that cameras are helping, think about it! If just one officer is caught as bad as the Walter Scott murder, it begins to send a message. At no time in history have we seen the flurry of this many wrong doings by officers and it is ONLY because a camera being in the right place.
In olden times, a black man saying a contrary word to a police officer was a clear case of suicide as the officer knew that there were not going to be any other inquiry to the killing. Today, a lot of lookouts have to be made to see that no cameras are present.
LAST, there is the residual effect- other officers are no longer going to just willingly lie as they know that some video may show up and they too then have to pay the price for complicity. THIS IS THE REALLY BIG DIVIDEND! The blue wall of silence or lies has been kicked over!
The US is losing vast quantities of the input and output from black people at all levels as we have to always temper what we do or say with a caution that some out of control white officer may think that his badge gives him the "James Bond" authority to kill. Think of the productivity and creativity that is lost because all these people are frightened on a daily(minute) basis of what they may have to deal with next on a racial interaction with a police officer.
Every black man in America has to allow 20-30% of his attention/energy to just staying alive with the police. These so called "experts" say that they cannot really show any proof that cameras are helping, think about it! If just one officer is caught as bad as the Walter Scott murder, it begins to send a message. At no time in history have we seen the flurry of this many wrong doings by officers and it is ONLY because a camera being in the right place.
In olden times, a black man saying a contrary word to a police officer was a clear case of suicide as the officer knew that there were not going to be any other inquiry to the killing. Today, a lot of lookouts have to be made to see that no cameras are present.
LAST, there is the residual effect- other officers are no longer going to just willingly lie as they know that some video may show up and they too then have to pay the price for complicity. THIS IS THE REALLY BIG DIVIDEND! The blue wall of silence or lies has been kicked over!
5
"The Wall" has not yet been "kicked over". Just wait until the lawyers get involved in the use of the contents of the cameras. The battle has just begun..........
Where did Ray Tensing get the $1 million dollar bond to get out of jail? A white hate group? The Koch brothers? The police union? That would be very interesting information. The vast majority of Americans DEMAND that police departments return to protecting OUR communities instead of acting like military "swat" teams that WE have to be protected from. It is time to get America right-side-up again. Good Cops had better step up and help the rest of us clean up their departments because WE will not stand for police anarchy in America.
8
10% of that was paid -- 100k
1
Yes, I know, but that's still a lot of money and Mr. Tensing doesn't look like he has any. Someone put up the money and I wonder who?
2
People facing an extravagant bond usually borrow money from a bank to pay the bail bond fee, which is usually about 10 percent of the total. Sometimes relatives go the bail. Some people put up their houses as collateral to obtain the loan.
As long as police have a gun and a license to kill citizens, they should be wearing a camera while on duty.
It really is that simple.
11
Afraid it is not that simple. What about all public employees? How about the doctors at public health hospitals and the VA who are paid by the government, for instance. Should they not be held accountable for what they do? And you can think of a lot more employees who should be "monitored" for job performance. Why single out just law enforcement? This false, "feel-good", proposed solution battle is just beginning.
I truly and desperately want to believe that most police officers conduct themselves lawfully, but the disturbing thing is how often fellow officers - as well as DAs and coroners - have covered up for each other in many of the year's highlighted stories.
It's not like the officers involved knew exactly who was coming when calling for backup. Yet there seems to be no hesitation whatsoever on the officer's part that his version will be corroborated by his colleagues. The inconsistencies of autopsy reports, official versus what the family commissioned and/or what is common sense, have left me in awe. The lawyers in my family have always said that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich... unless the DA works incredibly hard to purposefully not get an indictment.
If anything, I'd appreciate a reporting on the people involved - the officers who claim to be witnesses when the camera says otherwise, the coroner who puts out dubious reports, and the prosecutors who have either not charged officers or couldn't get indictments for actions that a reasonable person would see as a possible murder.
It never made sense to me that the police investigates "their" own misconduct. These investigations should not be made by them nor the people they work closely with. There should be a federal organization that takes up all misconduct complaints.
Prejudice and corruption need to be rooted out. This is for not only the public's sake, but for the good police officers as well.
It's not like the officers involved knew exactly who was coming when calling for backup. Yet there seems to be no hesitation whatsoever on the officer's part that his version will be corroborated by his colleagues. The inconsistencies of autopsy reports, official versus what the family commissioned and/or what is common sense, have left me in awe. The lawyers in my family have always said that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich... unless the DA works incredibly hard to purposefully not get an indictment.
If anything, I'd appreciate a reporting on the people involved - the officers who claim to be witnesses when the camera says otherwise, the coroner who puts out dubious reports, and the prosecutors who have either not charged officers or couldn't get indictments for actions that a reasonable person would see as a possible murder.
It never made sense to me that the police investigates "their" own misconduct. These investigations should not be made by them nor the people they work closely with. There should be a federal organization that takes up all misconduct complaints.
Prejudice and corruption need to be rooted out. This is for not only the public's sake, but for the good police officers as well.
24
There are three body cam videos of the incident, not just one. The defense lawyer say the other two videos, which were made by two police officer who arrived just as the shot was fired, show that Officer Tensing was dragged just as he claimed. One of these two officers said he saw Tensing being dragged., but his body cam video only shows Tensing on the ground. The third officer said he didn't see Tensing dragged, but that the back of his pants and shirt showed signs of being dragged over a rough surface. Tensing was treated at a hospital for an injury to his left hand, which he says was caught in the steering wheel ass he reached for the ignition key, so there will be medical testimony.
For me, the key phrase here is that these videos "represent just a tiny fraction of police behavior - those that show respectful, peaceful interactions do not make the 24-hour cable news..." I do not view a video of police misconduct/criminality and think all cops are bad, just as I do not view a video of a black person committing a crime and think all black people are criminals. Let's be fair. Without cops we would be eaten alive in our own homes. I support the 100% mandatory use of body cameras on all officers at all times because I think 99% of the time it will support the officer's account. The media will sensationalize that 1% which depicts a bad cop doing bad things. It's not changing my views because I have common sense.
6
True but justice is everyone's goal. Police are granted arrest power, benefit of the doubt, and the right to use deadly force as necessary. With that comes higher standards of behavior then the average citizens. I expect cops to remain professional even if a citizen is outraged at being stopped. Justifiable actions by a cop are easily distinguished from a hot head cop abusing his powers. We've seen video that, considering most departments don't use cameras, suggest that the abuse is far more wide spread then many pie in the sky Americans care to believe.
68
Police are public servants, not public masters, regardless of the fact that they openly carry weapons.
2
Videos are not perfect, but at least these situations will not simply end up being judged on the basis of "he said, she said - oh, wait, she's dead". Also, is it just me, or do most of these questionable encounters begin with the police stopping a black person for something really trivial? Selling loose cigarettes, lane-change without signal, broken tail light.... It sure looks like the police are picking on people of colour.
13
Imagine, if you will, American history before universal cellphone cameras. Imagine whether police departments in those olden days developed hard and fast traditions of unfair violence against civilians. Acknowledged, there is no evidence except for unreliable eyewitnesses whom no one believes on the say so of crackerjack criminal defense lawyers. Imagine if you will inadequate police training which gives rise to injured civilians and harmed police officers. Imagine, if you will, inventing police unions in 2015 to contribute to society by demanding adequate training to protect police officers against stupid accidents, never mind undeserving civilians. I guess that would be socialism. Note to self: inquire of Republican Judiciary Committees about benefits of hand-cuffing government services through budgets in an exceptional nation.
1
James Pasco, the executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police. “Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
That may be so, but the outcome of the bad interactions are unacceptable.
Therefore policing procedure needs to change.
That may be so, but the outcome of the bad interactions are unacceptable.
Therefore policing procedure needs to change.
1
Exactly, an "A" in math doesn't negate your "F" in Social Studies.
You still got an "F."
You still got an "F."
On a recent bike ride through a black neighborhood in Maryland I saw a white officer pull over a black teenager on a motorbike. Both my husband and I stopped, unsure if we needed to pull out our cellphone cameras. The young boy had done nothing more serious than cross against the light yet the officer got out of the car yelling, assuming the bike was stolen, etc. The young man was respectful but insistent that he had done nothing wrong.
A white kid on a motorbike on a fine Sunday morning would have gotten a cheery wave, a black kid gets threatened, yelled at and disrespected. Then all us nice white people wonder why he has no respect for the law.
A white kid on a motorbike on a fine Sunday morning would have gotten a cheery wave, a black kid gets threatened, yelled at and disrespected. Then all us nice white people wonder why he has no respect for the law.
29
The adage that a picture is worth a thousand words has never been so well validated as we are seeing now. More cameras!
6
The videos demonstrate that the news media can create racial discord by exclusively focusing on incidents involving white police officers and black civilians whole ignoring the far more numerous incidents that involve white civilians. Studies consistently show that about 70 percent of police homicide victims are white (including Hispanics) while about 30 percent are black. Since blacks make up only about 13 percent of the population, this indicates that blacks make up a disproportionate number of police homicide victims, but the disparity corresponds closely to the racial disparity in the crime rate. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report (Data Table 43: Arrests), blacks made up 28.3 percent of arrests in 2013, but they made up 38.7 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including 52.3 percent of those arrested for murder or manslaughter and 56.4 percent of those arrested for robbery. Table 43 (Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed) shows that blacks killed nearly 50 percent of police officers murdered from 2004 to 2013. An expert recently quoted in the New York Times said, blacks “are five times as likely to feloniously kill a cop.”
5
~ "An expert recently quoted in the New York Times said, blacks 'are five times as likely to feloniously kill a cop.'"~
And now we can see why. If whites were perishing at the hands of police at the same rate as blacks, there would be no cops left.
And now we can see why. If whites were perishing at the hands of police at the same rate as blacks, there would be no cops left.
If I were a good cop, I would want to be wearing a camera to protect myself should there be a major altercation with a citizen. What is most disturbing is the statement "(There is, however, no precise accounting of the number of people killed by police officers each year.)"! How is it possible that in 2015 where every cop has a cell phone and all departments are computerized, do we NOT have records of how many people are killed each year by police?
It seems that since 9/11 our country has become more militarized,not only abroad, but also at home. We have given Al Qaeda everything they wanted and more as we continue to fear every thing and every one! Our government sends military equipment to the States to be used against citizens and our President responds by only stopping some of it and letting these para-military police keep what they already have! What are we becoming???
It seems that since 9/11 our country has become more militarized,not only abroad, but also at home. We have given Al Qaeda everything they wanted and more as we continue to fear every thing and every one! Our government sends military equipment to the States to be used against citizens and our President responds by only stopping some of it and letting these para-military police keep what they already have! What are we becoming???
6
I think one of the assumptions you made in this article is that the presence of these videos will shine new light into adverse police civilian interaction leading to a new paradigm in which Justice shines through. You couldn't be more wrong. There is no doubt that if the Dubois murder case ends up in front of an all white jury, officer Tensign will be exonerated. Even the white defense attorney have made that point time and time again in discussing cases where black males are unfairly shot or beaten up by police officers. The system is now 95% biased towards exonerating the rogue police officer and without widespread reform unfortunately we will be having this discussion time and time again.
6
I think the only people who've changed their opinions are middle and upper-class white men. For the rest of us it's just disgusting that we were never believed all these years, and it took video evidence for white men to listen. I'm a white middle-class woman, and almost every interaction I've had with police has been negative, from being pulled over for driving while blonde (cops hoping for a "date," to put it euphemistically), to having my calls for help dismissed when a crazy ax-wielding neighbor came after me (until the cops saw the video! I bought a video camera 25 years ago because the cops would not believe my calls about that neighbor), to the police in my town threatening to arrest witnesses who reported a plane crash. In the last case the cops were unable to find the plane after a 1-hour search of our heavily wooded area, so they just gave up—then angrily threatened to arrest the witnesses who stayed at the police barracks and insisted they keep looking. The plane was found when a passenger came to and called a colleague on her cell. Another passenger died of his injuries, but probably would have lived if the plane had been found earlier. The passenger who survived won a hefty settlement from the police. I think more than twice before dialing 911.
16
As someone who actually has policemen in the family, they welcome the cameras. The videos that are being seen by the public (or "live at 5) are a small percentage of the total amount of video that shows the majority of police are actually doing their jobs correctly. They welcome the ability to show they were correct in their actions and, based on the anecdotal evidence from our family, has actually reduced the number of complaints about police. Further, it is being used as a tool to monitor officer behavior and ensure that enforcement is fair and equitable and either correct an officer's behavior or weed them out of the force. The more I hear of the problems with police misconduct, the more I understand that policing, just like real estate, is local. Perhaps your local police are different.
6
My local police -- mostly OK. But the bad apples - the loser frightened bullies, the ones who shoot first and get off free - sorry those kinda cops gotta go, and waiting for those minority to kill one or more citizens (and get away with murder a few times ) no no no
We citizens need a better way to get bad cops out of our lives.
We citizens need a better way to get bad cops out of our lives.
Because of technology we are now seeing all kinds of abuses that have been going on for a long time in all aspects of our society. Rape, domestic abuse, racism, sexism, thieves, lies, cheating, you name it we now are finding out about it. Whether its data from cameras, computers, cell phones, DNA, science, etc. we now can find out things we could not just 10-20 years ago. There are a lot of bad human beings out there. Fortunately there are a lot more good one.
6
a few years ago, an officer made a routine traffic stop and shot the driver dead after an argument. the driver was a middle-aged white man with children and a job.
what are the statistics of arrests and police violence by race? maybe we'd find out that blacks are singled out, but then it would be based on data instead of sensationalistic news reporting.
what are the statistics of arrests and police violence by race? maybe we'd find out that blacks are singled out, but then it would be based on data instead of sensationalistic news reporting.
6
There is no evidence that most police officers are good. Police officers too have mental health issues, their jobs and the risks they take put them on edge and they see the public as potential killers and every encounter as possible escalation to bodily harm for themselves. There are too many guns in America and too many in the wrong hands to make police public encounters less than taut and uneasy. Add to that the toxic combo of power, excitement and control, that policing confers, we have situations almost every day, somewhere in the US, that result in civilian deaths at the hands of the police. Cameras help but they don't seem to deter egregious police misconduct, as the Cincinnati case shows. Once an officer is on his way to an impulsive action against a citizen there is nothing to stop him--not even a camera. Reason flies out the window. He is the slave of his own accelerating loss of control. It is also remarkable that very few female officers have been involved in these citizen deaths, thus far, or is that my perception?
3
If the racial tension we're seeing these days is a result of Obama being elected, and re-elected, then heaven help us if we have our first woman president next year. I think we need a strong female leader and we are ready for one, but society's collective sputtering over the election of our first black president means we should be careful about being so self congratulatory about how far we think we've come. If we have a female president, there will be societal changes, in ways we may be able to predict and in ways we may not.
3
The problem might be one of entitlement. They have been over equipped since 9/11. They act like an occupying force. They have too much firepower. They are overpaid. High school graduates making over $200,000 in Connecticut with overtime. They have too strong a union. Worst of all, how many times have police murdered innocent people, then covered it up while the poor victim goes to his grave a suspected criminal. Then of course the policeman goes out on disability, then double dips as works under the table while his fellow SS wannabes collaborate. Oh, don't forget the property room, a free grab bag of gifts for these guys.
8
There is no excuse for systematic police brutality and racism..if we want to survive as a nation we will need to have a better and more just police force through out the nation. Otherwise in 50 yrs there will be more minorities then whites and nation will start to crumble if only equitable representation is not there in the police force to compare with the community they represent
1
Yes. Let's hope we soon live in a country where no one trusts the police, everyone resists arrest, and we can all universally rise up against American police tyranny. That'll show 'em.
4
All in all, a good thing. Of course, cameras will provide Americans with an eyeful, not just of police behavior but of the subjects involved with them.
Real-time footage could be quite valuable to police departments. It will provide better input for police training and procedural refinement. There are obviously problems with both aggressive cops and people resisting arrest. Videos could be used to better address them.
As an aside, a closer examination of England's widespread use of video footage might shorten our learning curve, even though mass surveillance is not quite the same as these individual tapings.
Real-time footage could be quite valuable to police departments. It will provide better input for police training and procedural refinement. There are obviously problems with both aggressive cops and people resisting arrest. Videos could be used to better address them.
As an aside, a closer examination of England's widespread use of video footage might shorten our learning curve, even though mass surveillance is not quite the same as these individual tapings.
1
The feds have a lot of "police" too. There are 3,000 U.S. Marshals in field offices, guards at national monuments, park rangers, etc. The feds should set a good example in use of body cameras. Then they could also collect information on the practical issues of wearing them -- battery life, continuous v intermittent use, where the lens is pointed, the pros and cons of different brands and designs, the difficulty of getting them on at the right time, use in low light environments etc. Since the Marshals guard the federal judiciary, if the Marshals wore them when guarding the judges, then the judges would get some experience with the devices too.
8
How many unjustified police shootings result from the absence of effective gun control in the U.S? With more than 300 million guns in private hands in the U.S., every cop's working assumption may be -- arguably, must be -- that every person they stop, for any reason, is armed and potentially dangerous. In that case, it would be easier to understand how what seem like routine stops can escalate so quickly and so dangerously. Add even a little racism/profiling into that picture, and apparently unprovoked police shootings would seem inevitable. This may be one ugly downside of the American fixation on the right to bear arms.
9
So your assertion is that blacks are shot because lots of white people own guns?
Wow.
Wow.
So because of a few rotten eggs, let's spend BILLIONS of our precious taxpayer funds buying and installing cameras on police, police cars, and all over their stations. To view and store the footage will require techs, equipment and software (funds to regularly upgrade all stuff).
Then what do we get? Add some facial recognition software and GOODBYE personal privacy for everyone.
I love how all you commentators believe that the same law enforcement officers will only use that footage to ensure safe police practices. No way would they use it to target individuals or groups or share with NSA, CIA, or even the IRS. Definitely would not sell to corporations or advertisers.
You all seem to believe that these same LEOs couldn't make bad footage disappear. Or even how to use the software that 'enhances' EVERY recent recorded movie or program.
Recording and storing the actions of all will not stop the boogie man. I'd suggest education for all but that is tedious and wouldn't provide cheap tv.
Then what do we get? Add some facial recognition software and GOODBYE personal privacy for everyone.
I love how all you commentators believe that the same law enforcement officers will only use that footage to ensure safe police practices. No way would they use it to target individuals or groups or share with NSA, CIA, or even the IRS. Definitely would not sell to corporations or advertisers.
You all seem to believe that these same LEOs couldn't make bad footage disappear. Or even how to use the software that 'enhances' EVERY recent recorded movie or program.
Recording and storing the actions of all will not stop the boogie man. I'd suggest education for all but that is tedious and wouldn't provide cheap tv.
5
Maybe if it's your housekeeper,nanny,gardener, , or even your kid that suffers a beatdown or worse you might change your mind.
2
I am a middle-aged white woman and I have never been helped by a police officer. From the first time an officer locked me in the back of his car and proceeded to proposition me, I have known not to trust cops. I brought up my children with the same wariness. Cops are not on your side.
20
I was in a car accident a few years ago where I was on a highway, driving highway speed (60) clipped by a young white kid who was not paying attention, driving too fast, and then had to swerve to avoid running right into me. He ran off the road into a ditch. The police officer on the scene, also a young white kid, refused to listen to anything I had to say. His report was written solely on the word of his "peep" (young white male), who said I cut him off. My insurance adjuster said that there is no way according to the laws of physics that it happened the way he said it did. The cop said nothing to me about my alleged "careless driving" and did not even issue me a ticket, but that sure showed up on the police report.
When I was in my 20s, I was rear-ended while stopped at a red light by a car going 35mph. THAT cop was very "nice" to me -- followed me home to make sure I arrived OK -- and then asked me out on a date.
My experience with cops is that if you are female and they deem you to be someone they want to "date", they will be nice to you up to the point you refuse. If you are an older female who is past the age that makes them go all a-tingle, you do not matter to them. We may not be subject to the violence that black women are by police, but the lack of respect for all members of the community is endemic to police, as far as I'm concerned.
When I was in my 20s, I was rear-ended while stopped at a red light by a car going 35mph. THAT cop was very "nice" to me -- followed me home to make sure I arrived OK -- and then asked me out on a date.
My experience with cops is that if you are female and they deem you to be someone they want to "date", they will be nice to you up to the point you refuse. If you are an older female who is past the age that makes them go all a-tingle, you do not matter to them. We may not be subject to the violence that black women are by police, but the lack of respect for all members of the community is endemic to police, as far as I'm concerned.
2
Surprisingly to many and not surprisingly to some cameras are exposing something that has been going on for years. For the criminal justice system racism begins in many cases with a police stop. I'm not suggesting that all "white" cops are racist but the perception many "white" officers bring to a situation is colored by fear based on racial stereotypes. African-American cops also have fear however many African-American cops can see the other side of that traffic stop. That's because many African-American cops have been on the other side of those stops. Cameras are a tool that can be helpful but so far we've just touched the surface of racism and the criminal justice system.
4
Racial profiling has been overlooked because the ones doing the reporting of incidents are usually "stereotyped" citizens. So they aren't considered as "creditable." That's just my opinion. one of my encounters;
I had just bought a truck me, my three boys and my nephew decided to go get something to eat. I had gone thru a yellow light (it had turned yellow right as I was going thru it). I saw the police officer surveying the truck before I went thru the light, he waited as I passed to see the tag (paper tag) and immediately made a U-turn and pulled me over. He stated I ran a red light, while asking for my information he began to shine his light in each of their faces, he then asked if they had ID. I said why?they're not driving. He said is everyone related again I asked why? Does it matter? He again asked about their ID's I refused to let him see them (they were all minors). He went to his car came back and said this is not car insurance its renters insurance (which was in the same insurance) I said I said yes it is, I can't take an automobile off the lot without insurance. He began to get irritated and started speaking to me as if I was being uncooperative (the whole time I was speaking calmly) he went back to his car and in a master off minutes 5 police cars had pulled up. Him and another officer had come back to the car, after several minutes of going back and forth he let me go. But I ran a red light according to him. Hmmmm!
I had just bought a truck me, my three boys and my nephew decided to go get something to eat. I had gone thru a yellow light (it had turned yellow right as I was going thru it). I saw the police officer surveying the truck before I went thru the light, he waited as I passed to see the tag (paper tag) and immediately made a U-turn and pulled me over. He stated I ran a red light, while asking for my information he began to shine his light in each of their faces, he then asked if they had ID. I said why?they're not driving. He said is everyone related again I asked why? Does it matter? He again asked about their ID's I refused to let him see them (they were all minors). He went to his car came back and said this is not car insurance its renters insurance (which was in the same insurance) I said I said yes it is, I can't take an automobile off the lot without insurance. He began to get irritated and started speaking to me as if I was being uncooperative (the whole time I was speaking calmly) he went back to his car and in a master off minutes 5 police cars had pulled up. Him and another officer had come back to the car, after several minutes of going back and forth he let me go. But I ran a red light according to him. Hmmmm!
12
What is telling is that we can look at each photograph that accompanies this story and know all the circumstances. The situations of abuse and murder are now stored in our memories.
Why should it be possible for a police officer to turn off the camera--except for going to the bathroom, and having lunch or having a private conversation on the phone. Possibly putting on a gun holster should automatically turn on the camera.
Why should it be possible for a police officer to turn off the camera--except for going to the bathroom, and having lunch or having a private conversation on the phone. Possibly putting on a gun holster should automatically turn on the camera.
4
In which case this video would not have the entire verbal interaction between the officer and the victim.......care for another guess?
I intended to say
1.now that we have seen the videos, all we need is one frame to recall to mind the entire video interaction and the aftermath.
2. Shouldn't the video cam be on all the time and not be able to be turned off? Or --if you put on the belt with the gun and the holster as part of the professional uniform, that the camera should automatically turn on
1.now that we have seen the videos, all we need is one frame to recall to mind the entire video interaction and the aftermath.
2. Shouldn't the video cam be on all the time and not be able to be turned off? Or --if you put on the belt with the gun and the holster as part of the professional uniform, that the camera should automatically turn on
In my interactions with police (traffic stops) I assume that they are all suffering from varying degrees of PTSD, and act accordingly. Imagine what life as a cop is like. On a daily basis you have to assume that everyone is carrying a gun and wants to kill you, you are routinely in contact with the dregs of society, and even the people who aren't going to kill you do not like you, and will not support you. It is no surprise that cops make errors of judgement that result in excessive force and death. And yes, there are also some bad cops.
Cops should be given "tours of duty" that alternate between time on the streets duty and administrative duty. We should also use what has been learned about PTSD in war to make police work safer and more effective for all.
Cops should be given "tours of duty" that alternate between time on the streets duty and administrative duty. We should also use what has been learned about PTSD in war to make police work safer and more effective for all.
11
James Pasco, the executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police[said,] “Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
Store clerks have millions of contacts with citizens every day, too. The difference (and the reason that police need to be held to a very high standard), is that police are given are lot of power, carry weapons and have a lot of discretion in using them.
Store clerks have millions of contacts with citizens every day, too. The difference (and the reason that police need to be held to a very high standard), is that police are given are lot of power, carry weapons and have a lot of discretion in using them.
7
"Store clerks have millions of contacts with citizens every day, too. The difference (and the reason that police need to be held to a very high standard), is that police are given are lot of power. . . ."
An inapt analogy.
In general, store clerks deal with customers whose behavior is legitimate. In general, police deal with customers whose behavior is not.
As in the Target at Flatbush Junction the other day, when a store clerk is intimidated and frightened by an aggressive, mentally unstable citizen, he calls the police. And the police have to escort out of the store someone who does not want to leave.
An inapt analogy.
In general, store clerks deal with customers whose behavior is legitimate. In general, police deal with customers whose behavior is not.
As in the Target at Flatbush Junction the other day, when a store clerk is intimidated and frightened by an aggressive, mentally unstable citizen, he calls the police. And the police have to escort out of the store someone who does not want to leave.
I totally agree. Teachers, firemen, postal workers all government workers have those interactions and as a citizen I expect some degree of respect and professionalism from them. Police have gotten a lot less scrutiny for their behaviors. Why? I believe that it is because as another commenter stated guns. Any interaction could be with an individual that is armed - suddenly the basis for the interaction between two people change when guns are involved. The one who shots first is most likely the winner if it gets to that point. It is a very dangerous job. I wonder if we ran an experiment and allowed towns to have all firearms checked and stored safely at a public place when you entered the town. I wonder how the public police w
[[“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”]]
It's also not news when all the planes land safely at an airport.
The issue is poor training and oppressive tactics and strategies. In Ferguson, they were using the police to generate revenue for the town…traffic tickets which turned into warrants which turned into jail time. While in New York you had "stop and frisk," millions of "interactions" which generated immense ill will towards the police.
So when Michael Brown gets killed or Eric Garner gets killed you had these tremendous outbursts of emotion for men who were not "perfect" victims.
You can't pat yourself on the back for doing your job without incident. You have to have continually evolving standards of excellence and you have to continually invest in training.
It's also not news when all the planes land safely at an airport.
The issue is poor training and oppressive tactics and strategies. In Ferguson, they were using the police to generate revenue for the town…traffic tickets which turned into warrants which turned into jail time. While in New York you had "stop and frisk," millions of "interactions" which generated immense ill will towards the police.
So when Michael Brown gets killed or Eric Garner gets killed you had these tremendous outbursts of emotion for men who were not "perfect" victims.
You can't pat yourself on the back for doing your job without incident. You have to have continually evolving standards of excellence and you have to continually invest in training.
3
Technology will continue to help bring the police under control. The police have gotten gang like in many areas of the country. So many people have been victimized by the police that it is now assumed that this is occurring in a widespread manner. Former Mayor Bloomberg allowed many people in low income areas to be stopped and frisked giving up their constitutional rights.
So how to improve these conditions. Well if all cars are driverless in the future, there will not be any speeding tickets. If marijuana is nationally legalized, that will end hundreds of thousands of incarcerations, and tickets. It may be better to set up a test trial of legalized drug clinics for drug addicts in three to five test states, whereby if an addict is need of a drug that they are addicted to, that they will have access to that drug legally through a clinic , and then police will not have to focus on drug busts.
Many people when they are picked up by ambulances in NYC claim that police officers that arrive to write a report and meet the ambulance have gone through their wallets and taken the little cash out of their wallets. this should be thoroughly investigated. All depends if you re in a low income neighborhood or a high income neighborhood.
There are many great police officers but the way around all of this tension is to reduce the stress from the job by reducing their activities. Cameras are showing the truth of what has been occurring for the last two hundred and fifty years.
So how to improve these conditions. Well if all cars are driverless in the future, there will not be any speeding tickets. If marijuana is nationally legalized, that will end hundreds of thousands of incarcerations, and tickets. It may be better to set up a test trial of legalized drug clinics for drug addicts in three to five test states, whereby if an addict is need of a drug that they are addicted to, that they will have access to that drug legally through a clinic , and then police will not have to focus on drug busts.
Many people when they are picked up by ambulances in NYC claim that police officers that arrive to write a report and meet the ambulance have gone through their wallets and taken the little cash out of their wallets. this should be thoroughly investigated. All depends if you re in a low income neighborhood or a high income neighborhood.
There are many great police officers but the way around all of this tension is to reduce the stress from the job by reducing their activities. Cameras are showing the truth of what has been occurring for the last two hundred and fifty years.
55
The vast majority police are decent hard working professionals who do a tough dangerous job most of us wouldn't want to do...just like public school teachers.
But since the GOP has already smeared the reputations of our public school teachers and has rigorously gone after their labor union...specifically their collective bargaining rights, it was only a matter of time the anti-labor billionaires who own the GOP turned their sights to cops.
Body cameras have been issued to do exactly what they're doing, hilight the "bad apples" to tarnish the reputation of all cops.
And it appears to be working.
The next step will be for whispers to do away with police labor unions which they will say protects bad cops...just like they did with our teachers.
I'm telling you officers, vote Democrat this election or be prepared to have your reputations turned to mudd so Koch brother owned and funded candidates can break the police unions nation wide.
Don't ever say you weren't warned my friends in blue.
But since the GOP has already smeared the reputations of our public school teachers and has rigorously gone after their labor union...specifically their collective bargaining rights, it was only a matter of time the anti-labor billionaires who own the GOP turned their sights to cops.
Body cameras have been issued to do exactly what they're doing, hilight the "bad apples" to tarnish the reputation of all cops.
And it appears to be working.
The next step will be for whispers to do away with police labor unions which they will say protects bad cops...just like they did with our teachers.
I'm telling you officers, vote Democrat this election or be prepared to have your reputations turned to mudd so Koch brother owned and funded candidates can break the police unions nation wide.
Don't ever say you weren't warned my friends in blue.
3
Police forces have more problems than body cameras to rebuild public trust. Here are just a few of the issues:
1. Science isn't universally applied to the criminal justice system.
2. If you look at prison statistics, the entire criminal justice system is racist.
3. Officers use deadly force too often.
4. Videos show officers outright lying under oath about events.
My own interactions with the police have been generally positive. But I'm white and old, and I still treat them like one would while petting a wolf. Unfortunately, a significant minority of Americans only see and feel the bite of the wolf. This has to change.
1. Science isn't universally applied to the criminal justice system.
2. If you look at prison statistics, the entire criminal justice system is racist.
3. Officers use deadly force too often.
4. Videos show officers outright lying under oath about events.
My own interactions with the police have been generally positive. But I'm white and old, and I still treat them like one would while petting a wolf. Unfortunately, a significant minority of Americans only see and feel the bite of the wolf. This has to change.
6
Lying under oath? Cops?
Sometimes seriously so,
routinely, to get a conviction? Mucho mucho
Sometimes seriously so,
routinely, to get a conviction? Mucho mucho
We have a 19th century police force. An armed gang, living in gang-bred hatred of groups it can't control, and displaying arrogance and swagger against those it knows wont give them trouble.
Its unions, and the prosecutors who are beholden to them, protect the worst and most dangerous of the bunch, as unions always do.
Many of the so-called innocous day to day interactions with police are traffic stops, which under the guise of public safety are no more than a shakedown of motorists.
It's long past time to reevaluate what "policing" should be and how it should be carried out.
Its unions, and the prosecutors who are beholden to them, protect the worst and most dangerous of the bunch, as unions always do.
Many of the so-called innocous day to day interactions with police are traffic stops, which under the guise of public safety are no more than a shakedown of motorists.
It's long past time to reevaluate what "policing" should be and how it should be carried out.
8
Predatory policing is the result of very strong union leadership that resists searching inquiry and necessarily instills in the force an iron-clad belief that every citizen is a potential criminal. Officers then compartmentalize the public by demographic and so have their orders. Body cameras have exposed police not as protectors but as gladiators in a kind of blood sport in which a citizen's life is the prize. Most white Americans have historically been indifferent at the treatment minorities receive. Perhaps now, judging from many comments by those self-identifying here, the dissolution of respect for police has walked hand-in-hand with the fear that most African-American citizens live with every day.
3
"Heroes this" and "heroes that" finally coming to an end partly as a result of videos showing certain "heroic" activities . . . Now, if we could see more videos of the military in action, maybe we could end the "heroes" thing once and for all . . .
3
". . . the fact that one viral video after another surfaces, showing officers treating civilians harshly, demonstrates the limits of that change."
The fact that so many videos are surfacing demonstrates that the use of video cameras is working. Until these videos existed, nearly all of these incidents were unreported.
Just because a recently introduced technology does not immediately end the behavior of some officers, who feel entitled to use violence in the routine course of their day, does not demonstrate a limit on change.
The habits of violence, honed over centuries, take a long time to undo.
BTW: police officers are not military personnel. Calling the people they are employed to protect "citizens" undermines that idea.
The fact that so many videos are surfacing demonstrates that the use of video cameras is working. Until these videos existed, nearly all of these incidents were unreported.
Just because a recently introduced technology does not immediately end the behavior of some officers, who feel entitled to use violence in the routine course of their day, does not demonstrate a limit on change.
The habits of violence, honed over centuries, take a long time to undo.
BTW: police officers are not military personnel. Calling the people they are employed to protect "citizens" undermines that idea.
2
We could tax ammo and guns to pay for body cameras for police, the same as alcohol and cigarettes are taxed for the public good.
2
Any police officer who is dumb enought to fabricate a story about his behavior when he knows there is video of that behavior is way way to dumb to be on any police force anywhere and maybe too dumb to be employed by taxpayers for anything. And any other officers who support the lies are too corrupt to be on a police force anywhere.
So, stupid and lying - what a great description of people to whom we give guns as part of their jobs and who are paid by the taxpayers!!!
So, stupid and lying - what a great description of people to whom we give guns as part of their jobs and who are paid by the taxpayers!!!
8
It has long been common knowledge on the street that some police departments were to be avoided at all costs.
Small town and campus cops, not good enough to make the grade in larger forces were always to be viewed with extreme caution.
And if caught beating someone on video shown nationally they get a slap on the wrist, or the conviction tossed. .http://wjla.com/news/local/only-on-7-police-officer-s-conviction-tossed-....
In this case black cops beating a white student for skipping.
The victim stated after the conviction was tossed ""It sends a message that they (the police) can do whatever they want," McKenna, now a second-year law student, said Tuesday. "If they can get away with beating me up on national TV for doing nothing, it really makes me scared for what's going to happen to those in a dark alley when the cameras aren't shining."
Teach your children to fear the police, especially if they are of colour.
Small town and campus cops, not good enough to make the grade in larger forces were always to be viewed with extreme caution.
And if caught beating someone on video shown nationally they get a slap on the wrist, or the conviction tossed. .http://wjla.com/news/local/only-on-7-police-officer-s-conviction-tossed-....
In this case black cops beating a white student for skipping.
The victim stated after the conviction was tossed ""It sends a message that they (the police) can do whatever they want," McKenna, now a second-year law student, said Tuesday. "If they can get away with beating me up on national TV for doing nothing, it really makes me scared for what's going to happen to those in a dark alley when the cameras aren't shining."
Teach your children to fear the police, especially if they are of colour.
4
How is this like C-Span? Is verbal abuse tolerated on Capitol Hill? Is there a pervasive culture of cover-ups? Are people regularly executed without due process? That comparison sounds like an unfair minimization of the problem to me.
When I see the Eric Garner video it sickens me. Just as horrid is the feeling I get when I read that the Police Officer who strangled Garner to death, murdered him, Pantolio, is "really anxious to get off desk duty and back on the streets serving the people of NYC". Maybe he has no idea of how ludicrous that sounds? Or maybe he just does not care?
4
Strong arm street tactics where street corner crime has moved on or is unrelated to a larger problem. Antiquated Giuliani Time Bratton broken windows where everyone who drives and walks on the sidewalk is guilty of something. Nipping at a dragon's toes unable to catch hold of its tail, blasting away at phantoms, prejudice and racist attitudes rise to the surface. French Connection wanabee cowboys chasing squeegee men around are now banging on your door because they can't see the forest for the trees. Crime has become more complicated for the one dimensional methods of old cops and robbers and the police are frustrated. They have the guns and tanks of a military battalion, but not the strategies to deal with major crime centralized off the streets, not by the Mafia and organized in a fashion that obviously escapes contemporary police stuck in their wild west shows.
4
Focus on police training, where there are no more good guys and bad guys. There is Us (law enforcement) vs. Them (everyone else).
Video shines a light on a very dark place - these poor cops prepare for waging war every day. All the public wants is law and order from cops. They're training prepares them for war.
Video shines a light on a very dark place - these poor cops prepare for waging war every day. All the public wants is law and order from cops. They're training prepares them for war.
1
Referring to these video's as " the C-Span of the streets" is certainly not a ringing validity of their place in the justice system. Just as our elected officials will preen be for a C-Span camera, the sight of someone shooting video of police activity, will often act as a cue for spector's to become unruly themselves, escalating an already tense situation. These video's, rarely, if ever, show what prompted the police to take action n the first place. An ordinary arrest on the street can often escalate, just because of the nature of the neighborhood people. Has the public ever been made aware of what the reasons were for the police activity where the young bathing suit clad young woman was handcuffed? These videos, are of an extremely low quality, and in many instances, simply depict a group of people shouting and threatening police. Posting these videos is akin, to yelling "fire" in the movies.
Tom Franzson. Brevard. NC
Tom Franzson. Brevard. NC
2
"Those swift actions have been applauded by many African-Americans.."
This statement shows a bias and lack of depth in this report.
The developments in police accountability are applauded by people of all races who feel that the murder and brutality these videos document is an abomination.
Are you really trying to misrepresent this international sentiment and
This statement shows a bias and lack of depth in this report.
The developments in police accountability are applauded by people of all races who feel that the murder and brutality these videos document is an abomination.
Are you really trying to misrepresent this international sentiment and
5
Years ago in grad school I viewed the Zimbardo experiment on abuse of power. When one is given unlimited power there is a tendency to feel omnipotent and to casually and with great force abuse the powerless. They were forced to stop that experiment after 5 or 6 days because it was getting out of hand. The police department is a giant experiment that is out of hand with nobody to seemingly stop it, thus it has been happening for years. One need only think of the wink-wink blatant disregard about prosecuting the murderers of Emmitt Till or Medgar Evers to see that this nothing new....racism is imbedded into the system.
8
Body cameras aren't the issue. Weapons are. There is no good reason that every run-of-the-mill cop should be carrying a weapon. It's time to demilitarize the police.
8
All videos show respectful police conduct until the black man (never a woman) makes a run for it. The women are just vulgar.
Why nobody discusses the proper procedure in this situation? What is a cop to do? Run and tackle, tase, call for help? When is a cop allowed to shoot and where - head, legs, body mass? Maybe just call it a day and go to the diner? Let other cops deal with the fugitive? Or maybe there is no standard procedure and therefore everyone takes the law in their hands.
Because the "eyewitnesses" in Ferguson and other places lied under oath, the cameras are essential for police work. They should have better resolution, higher frame rate, better audio and even accelerometers. They are cheaper than cell phones. With body cameras, the lie about raising hands would have never propagated like wildfire.
Why nobody discusses the proper procedure in this situation? What is a cop to do? Run and tackle, tase, call for help? When is a cop allowed to shoot and where - head, legs, body mass? Maybe just call it a day and go to the diner? Let other cops deal with the fugitive? Or maybe there is no standard procedure and therefore everyone takes the law in their hands.
Because the "eyewitnesses" in Ferguson and other places lied under oath, the cameras are essential for police work. They should have better resolution, higher frame rate, better audio and even accelerometers. They are cheaper than cell phones. With body cameras, the lie about raising hands would have never propagated like wildfire.
24
I think the answer to the question about when police are allowed to shoot is well documented. An unarmed man running from the police does not meet that criteria. Arguing with a police officer is not punishable by a death penalty. Drinking and driving is not punishable by a death penalty. The sum total of all the offenses committed by this motorist is not punishable by a death penalty.
2
"When is a cop allowed to shoot"
There is a very very clear legal standard: In order for a cop to legally shoot, s/he must reasonably believe that the person they are shooting at presents a lethal threat to themselves or somebody else. Any other time that an officer fires, it is illegal.
The correct response to an unarmed fleeing suspect is to (1) radio, and then (2) run-and-tackle. If you already know who that person is (e.g. you have their name and address from their drivers' license) you can simply let them go and stop by their house or work later to arrest them.
There is a very very clear legal standard: In order for a cop to legally shoot, s/he must reasonably believe that the person they are shooting at presents a lethal threat to themselves or somebody else. Any other time that an officer fires, it is illegal.
The correct response to an unarmed fleeing suspect is to (1) radio, and then (2) run-and-tackle. If you already know who that person is (e.g. you have their name and address from their drivers' license) you can simply let them go and stop by their house or work later to arrest them.
1
I do not think the issue is that the police officers are white or that whites are unusually racist. Black police officers actually have higher rates of use of excessive force, as can be seen in the serious problems among heavily black police forces. We also know that black cab drivers are reluctant to pick up black passengers.
The reality is that police forces do attract some troubled people, including people who are too comfortable with the use of force. They are disproportionately likely to use excessive force against people from groups already statistically known to be more dangerous. There is no easy solution to this except videotaping encounters and remaining vigilant, and weeding out troubled people from police forces. The problem is not limited to white police officers and a misguided focus on that will lead to more, not less, police brutality.
The reality is that police forces do attract some troubled people, including people who are too comfortable with the use of force. They are disproportionately likely to use excessive force against people from groups already statistically known to be more dangerous. There is no easy solution to this except videotaping encounters and remaining vigilant, and weeding out troubled people from police forces. The problem is not limited to white police officers and a misguided focus on that will lead to more, not less, police brutality.
3
Separate the "swat team" types from traffic and "beat" cops. There are way too many Wyatt Earps out there. We are all, like mayor deBlasio, are stuck with too many hooligans in blue.
3
“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
The millions of police interactions with white people, which often conclude off without incident, are not the relevant comparison. The problem is not police being up and killing "citizen," but black people. Are the ones lucky enough to have their encounter recorded on video the only ones where things go haywire? How many incidents are never even reported to authorities by black victims, because doing so risks reprisals. And because the authorities cannot be trusted to investigate themselves. Every black how comes through a police encounter unscathed is luck. It should be a basic expectation, but it is not. One wrong word, one failure to abase oneself before the arbitrary authority of some jacked-up cop, is enough to ruin a black person's life. Or even end it.
The millions of police interactions with white people, which often conclude off without incident, are not the relevant comparison. The problem is not police being up and killing "citizen," but black people. Are the ones lucky enough to have their encounter recorded on video the only ones where things go haywire? How many incidents are never even reported to authorities by black victims, because doing so risks reprisals. And because the authorities cannot be trusted to investigate themselves. Every black how comes through a police encounter unscathed is luck. It should be a basic expectation, but it is not. One wrong word, one failure to abase oneself before the arbitrary authority of some jacked-up cop, is enough to ruin a black person's life. Or even end it.
5
‘We are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’ ” said Francis T. Cullen, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati."
Looking at the statistics on the use of deadly force by police in other countries indicates that "good faith mistakes" are essentially unacceptable and the nonchalant attitude about the rate by which the police routinely kill people speaks volumes...
Looking at the statistics on the use of deadly force by police in other countries indicates that "good faith mistakes" are essentially unacceptable and the nonchalant attitude about the rate by which the police routinely kill people speaks volumes...
3
Police shooting people in the head during routine traffic stops in broad daylight may be "rare."
Um, yeah. Otherwise we'd have a lawless free-for-all with blood literally in the streets and the descent of total anarchy.
That's not the point.
No disrespect to the deceased victims, but the bigger picture is the prevalence of systemic testilying among police. They are captured in citizen-made as well as police cameras openly discussing getting their 'story straight."
Truth-tellers don't need to collude and concoct a "story," Most cops do this, unchecked.
Videos can save lives, great.
But they can also unlock the truth about the testilying that has corroded police integrity and authority for decades, and needs to stop.
Meet a cop? Roll tape....
Um, yeah. Otherwise we'd have a lawless free-for-all with blood literally in the streets and the descent of total anarchy.
That's not the point.
No disrespect to the deceased victims, but the bigger picture is the prevalence of systemic testilying among police. They are captured in citizen-made as well as police cameras openly discussing getting their 'story straight."
Truth-tellers don't need to collude and concoct a "story," Most cops do this, unchecked.
Videos can save lives, great.
But they can also unlock the truth about the testilying that has corroded police integrity and authority for decades, and needs to stop.
Meet a cop? Roll tape....
4
I wasn't able to make a comment on the associated article regarding Mr. Tensing's bail, so I am placing my thoughts here. I don't know if the court or anyone else expected that Mr. Tensing would be able to come up with $100,000, required as a result of his $1,000,000 bail. And quickly. I imagine Mr. Dubose's family thought not. I'm guessing Mr. Tensing didn't have this kind of money lying around in a bank account, which means he had help. Although I can't say where the help came from, it wouldn't surprise me if some of it came from fellow police officers. Regardless, I offer this in stark contrast to Ms. Bland, who couldn't come up with the insurmountable amount (to her) of $500 to get out of jail and ended up dead, as we all know. Maybe Mr. Tensing will be convicted or plead to something, but it's a shame he has escaped a jail experience at this point, which would put him in the real world instead of in seclusion in a comfortable environment.
5
Wrong. To treat him differently than other murder suspects would be unfair. The point of keeping a suspect in police custody awaiting trial is because suspect is (1) a flight risk or (2) a danger to other citizens. The judge felt $1mm was fair, so did the DA. Leave it at that.
Not wrong. I'm not saying Mr. Tensing should be treated differently. I'm commenting on how easily he was released on bond from custody, even with a large bail amount. And how Ms. Bland couldn't even come up with $500. At the end of the day, Mr. Tensing was released to an environment with all the niceties, while others don't get that opportunity. I might even argue that your 1 and/or 2 apply to Mr. Tensing. By the way, I'm a lawyer, so I'm not ignorant of how the law works.
Most are aware that cameras are not the solution for better policing but just another tool that has brought to light the few bad apples that otherwise would have been chalked up as a legal shooting when it was not. Videos are also proving that these few bad apples do not always tell the truth when it contradicts what the police report has stated.
Black Americans have been saying for years that they been treated much differently than their White friends and the video is proving this to be a fact. The drawback is these videos are exposing a police culture that cannot be changed only through what is being seen by the public. This culture change will have to come through proper training and recognition that all lives matter and all should be treated equally. Until then, the video is the best tool the public has to catch these few bad apples behaving terribly.
Lastly these videos are also exposing good police are sometimes willing to cover for the bad ones. This too is part of the police culture of bleeding blue that must be challenged and changed.
Black Americans have been saying for years that they been treated much differently than their White friends and the video is proving this to be a fact. The drawback is these videos are exposing a police culture that cannot be changed only through what is being seen by the public. This culture change will have to come through proper training and recognition that all lives matter and all should be treated equally. Until then, the video is the best tool the public has to catch these few bad apples behaving terribly.
Lastly these videos are also exposing good police are sometimes willing to cover for the bad ones. This too is part of the police culture of bleeding blue that must be challenged and changed.
6
A very welcome development that a larger cross-section of American society is finally recognizing the often degrading, predatory, and violent interaction of cops with black Americans. What took so long?
Black people have been talking about this openly for decades. But only after countless cases of shocking video evidence are we willing to entertain the notion that these are not isolated incidents but facts of living black in America. It's hard not to interpret that as a reflection of the suspicion with which a large swathe of the country still views black citizens.
Black people have been talking about this openly for decades. But only after countless cases of shocking video evidence are we willing to entertain the notion that these are not isolated incidents but facts of living black in America. It's hard not to interpret that as a reflection of the suspicion with which a large swathe of the country still views black citizens.
165
It goes hand in hand with a subtle attitude of superiority, a lack of commitment to Every member of our society, plus the incessant claim that "we didn't know" by our "leaders." It has been so pervasive that even our first Black President has been hesitant to intervene, for fear it would endanger his other necessary efforts, on behalf of the entire nation. Thank goodness, he's not holding back, now. What more can congress do to him? They're too busy with the process of self immolation...and August vacation.
2
The fact that "white America" is waking up to the problem of unnecessary police violence against citizens is illustrative of how difficult it is to get the majority of citizens to pay attention to the problems of "black America". The minority population has been complaining about this for decades. There was the long standing complaint about "driving while black" that involved being stopped when simply passing through a majority white neighborhood, but there have also been long standing complaints about shootings and other violence that falls on blacks much more than whites. Who was listening? Who was ready to act before video become so common with cellphone video and much smaller video cameras and dashcams?
For decades, whites have complained about blacks playing "the race card". The questions of white citizens often go like this: "Why do "they" always have to be talking about race? Haven't we solved those problems? What more do they want?" Could we say that, now, we know? Now we know we live in two separate worlds where being black is to be thought of as a criminal first and always?
This does not mean that police violence does not touch whites. It does and stems from over assertive police tactics that sometimes involve police officers manipulating confrontations toward violence. It is going to take a major effort to get this straightened out. Body cameras will help, but they are not the sole answer. A deeper awakening about the problem is required.
8
I think it is important to remember, as the start of the article notes, these videos "represent just a tiny fraction of police behavior — those that show respectful, peaceful interactions do not make the 24-hour cable news...." Bad behavior, not doubt, but not necessarily representative of overall police behavior. I hazard a guess that watching the vast majority of videos would be quite boring.
There is a certain selection bias here. In an ideal world of infinite resources, every police encounter would be recorded and stored; this would allow for an accurate tally of the encounters (the vast majority, probably) that occur without any incidents, the encounters in which the police are subjected to abuse and threat of life and the number of encounters in which the police are themselves abusive.
Right now we only see biased videos; they don't really show what happens before the escalation and they don't show what other encounters took place prior to the one being shown.
Maybe the police should start posting online all the dash-cam footage of people running away, trying to run them over, shooting at them out of the blue, spitting at them, being unruly, resisting arrest etc. It would help everyone better understand the frame of mind of the police upon stopping a suspect.
Respect begets respect, but this applies to both: the police and the public.
Right now we only see biased videos; they don't really show what happens before the escalation and they don't show what other encounters took place prior to the one being shown.
Maybe the police should start posting online all the dash-cam footage of people running away, trying to run them over, shooting at them out of the blue, spitting at them, being unruly, resisting arrest etc. It would help everyone better understand the frame of mind of the police upon stopping a suspect.
Respect begets respect, but this applies to both: the police and the public.
4
It's brutal what the police have to go through, in terms of their frame of mind. But that don't allow in any way for them to carry over one interaction into the next. In reality, it would be really really great if all parties could treat the other with respect, it would make the interaction smoother.
But I don't HAVE to respect the policeman, I have to respect his legal authority. He doesn't have to respect me, but he does have to respect my legal rights.
I've watched the stop of Ms. Bland very carefully, many times. Notice how she DID treat him respectfully, at least until they were off camera. He asked a question ("You seem upset") and she very respectfully and CALMLY answered. Answering the question truthfully doesn't show disrespect, if anything it shows she WAS complying. He asked a question, and she truthfully answered. Same with the cigarette. She respectfully and CALMLY objected to an invasion of her personal space and rights.
But I don't HAVE to respect the policeman, I have to respect his legal authority. He doesn't have to respect me, but he does have to respect my legal rights.
I've watched the stop of Ms. Bland very carefully, many times. Notice how she DID treat him respectfully, at least until they were off camera. He asked a question ("You seem upset") and she very respectfully and CALMLY answered. Answering the question truthfully doesn't show disrespect, if anything it shows she WAS complying. He asked a question, and she truthfully answered. Same with the cigarette. She respectfully and CALMLY objected to an invasion of her personal space and rights.
1
Effort should be made to build awareness, that the police and the public are in a partnership. This means that they should listen to each other and act accordingly, but not only during some confrontation. Meetings should be held, to foster the partnership.
1
Finally the dirty secret that cannot be swept under the rug with properly worded police reports. As we all stand witness to the dichotomy......
There is an authoritarian mentality carried by some police officers. It is just becoming more visible to a racial and economic class that for too long was satisfied with fictional accounts in a police report. This can no longer be tolerated.
There is an authoritarian mentality carried by some police officers. It is just becoming more visible to a racial and economic class that for too long was satisfied with fictional accounts in a police report. This can no longer be tolerated.
9
As someone falsely arrested and beaten by police in Washington D.C., thanks to all who now observe and film citizen/police altercations. Your efforts may be all that stands between an innocent person being railroaded and possibly injured or killed.
Thanks to George Holliday, who began this movement of filming police-use-of-force when he recorded the savage police beating of a stranger, Rodney King, and sent it to a tv station which broadcast the film.
A proposal:
That anyone who records an arrest, police/civilian altercation or police-use-of-excessive-force should have an online site where they can anonymously upload this footage, a national "sousveillance" registry, where people can search by date, location, event or other detail and view documentation of their arrest or use of excessive force against them. Example: Washington D.C., 2/04/14, Wisconsin and Porter, 7-11 Store 1 a.m. This might slow the epidemic of false arrest, harassment and excessive force. If police knew recorded incidents could live in an online registry, they might exercise reason. So far, nothing else is working.
There should also be information on this site stating the legal rights of observers - by jurisdiction - to film the police when subjects are questioned, detained or arrested - since civilians are often threatened by police while they attempt to film the police.
Many will only believe it when they see film of it. Make this happen.
Thank you George Holliday. R.I.P. Rodney King.
Thanks to George Holliday, who began this movement of filming police-use-of-force when he recorded the savage police beating of a stranger, Rodney King, and sent it to a tv station which broadcast the film.
A proposal:
That anyone who records an arrest, police/civilian altercation or police-use-of-excessive-force should have an online site where they can anonymously upload this footage, a national "sousveillance" registry, where people can search by date, location, event or other detail and view documentation of their arrest or use of excessive force against them. Example: Washington D.C., 2/04/14, Wisconsin and Porter, 7-11 Store 1 a.m. This might slow the epidemic of false arrest, harassment and excessive force. If police knew recorded incidents could live in an online registry, they might exercise reason. So far, nothing else is working.
There should also be information on this site stating the legal rights of observers - by jurisdiction - to film the police when subjects are questioned, detained or arrested - since civilians are often threatened by police while they attempt to film the police.
Many will only believe it when they see film of it. Make this happen.
Thank you George Holliday. R.I.P. Rodney King.
18
This has BEEN the public's view of police. Problem is, all we hear from police is "they're juts a few bad eggs.." Well, video is showing us the problem is RAMPANT. Officials better crack down, and crack down hard because people are so afraid and so fed up that we will see a rise in incidents of police getting killed. Stop the war before it begins -reform the system.
8
Something has gone seriously wrong in our nations police academy's and screening process. This needs to change, and fast
3
My wife and I are returning from two weeks in Scandinavia this evening, so I checked the Times to see what we missed, and this was the lead article.
America is the sick puppy of developed nations, infected with the virus of anger, violence and revenge. Police should be required to spend time periodically in civilized countries to see how policing is done by professionals.
America is the sick puppy of developed nations, infected with the virus of anger, violence and revenge. Police should be required to spend time periodically in civilized countries to see how policing is done by professionals.
26
I watched the video and I can't tell what happened. I do know that a man was stopped for some reason like not having a front license plate and then not having a driver's license on him. Even if he was trying to escape, or "resisting arrest", why shoot him?
Now everyone seems to want the rather pathetic police officer's blood. Seems like they will have to have it.
Yes, a sick society full of violence, anger, revenge and fully armed. God help us.
Now everyone seems to want the rather pathetic police officer's blood. Seems like they will have to have it.
Yes, a sick society full of violence, anger, revenge and fully armed. God help us.
Two points that need more emphasis in the public discussion:
1. Historically, police have been the cutting edge for the enforcement of racist laws and practices, from the decades of legalized segregation in the south and de facto segregation in the north. Some of this "heritage" persists to the present day, but it has morphed into the attitude that black people are automatically suspect and dangerous.
2. There is a culture of solidarity among police that contributes to dishonest reporting. Now that video cameras have changed the game somewhat, we are starting to see hard evidence that officers routinely lie in their reports to support fellow officers. Is this really a rare occurrence? If you stick your hand into a haystack and pull out a needle, there is a high probability that the haystack is full of needles.
This country needs to get its police under control. Video cameras are one step. Punishment of officers who lie to support other officers is another. Police are trained to carry and use guns to enforce the law; they should be held to a high standard, especially in the use of deadly force. There should be independent investigations when police kill someone. No person or department can be trusted to investigate themselves on such a serious matter.
Prerecorded excuses like "he was going for my gun," "he grabbed my taser," "I was afraid for my life" should be taken as self-serving unless there is hard evidence to back them up.
1. Historically, police have been the cutting edge for the enforcement of racist laws and practices, from the decades of legalized segregation in the south and de facto segregation in the north. Some of this "heritage" persists to the present day, but it has morphed into the attitude that black people are automatically suspect and dangerous.
2. There is a culture of solidarity among police that contributes to dishonest reporting. Now that video cameras have changed the game somewhat, we are starting to see hard evidence that officers routinely lie in their reports to support fellow officers. Is this really a rare occurrence? If you stick your hand into a haystack and pull out a needle, there is a high probability that the haystack is full of needles.
This country needs to get its police under control. Video cameras are one step. Punishment of officers who lie to support other officers is another. Police are trained to carry and use guns to enforce the law; they should be held to a high standard, especially in the use of deadly force. There should be independent investigations when police kill someone. No person or department can be trusted to investigate themselves on such a serious matter.
Prerecorded excuses like "he was going for my gun," "he grabbed my taser," "I was afraid for my life" should be taken as self-serving unless there is hard evidence to back them up.
333
I couldn't agree more with this. Shooting someone should require than a vague feeling that the person might, possibly, maybe have a gun and be dangerous.
1
I do not believe all police always need to carry guns. Few few police forces throughout the developed world routinely carry side arms.
2
Like any sentient human, I can't express my shock and outrage at the psychotic, corrupt, racist, murderous brutality that has morphed into an almost every-day occurrence. Yes, my views about cops have changed, not for the better. I was never proud of the way the country has treated black people, but now it's evident that the problem is exponentially worse than I imagined. Do not give me any of this American exceptionalism; we are a desperately sick country.
28
Say what you will about the police, but you cannot ignore the fact that American citizens are also among the most armed and violent in the world. Your murder rate is about 4-5 times the average European country and your mass shootings have seemingly become epidemic.
17
The unsubstantiated claim by police is that the vast majority of police interactions with the public are conducted respectfully and peacefully. How can we trust this claim without proof - like the kind provided by body cameras or civilian footage? I would think if the claim was true the police themselves would be more supportive of being filmed, as it would exonerate them from blame and elevate them to the respectful position in society that they claim to deserve.
Instead, the existence of so much footage showing brutal and reactionary police behavior reminds me of finding a roach in a restaurant: if you see one or two, there are most definitely hundreds more nearby, hidden from view.
Instead, the existence of so much footage showing brutal and reactionary police behavior reminds me of finding a roach in a restaurant: if you see one or two, there are most definitely hundreds more nearby, hidden from view.
15
Sadly, the cameras are going to force the bigotry further underground. Hidden but no less virulent.
1
As much as the videos provoke discussion of recent incidents and serve as evidence to bring justice in trials, may they also provoke thought about all the times that weren't filmed. I've had so many conversations with people who thought race relations were fine in America (i.e. oh yeah, Obama is president) until the media started covering them. It's great to see the power of communication--from activism/social media/#blacklivesmatter to videos to reporting even to this comments section--bringing this issue to the forefront.
Turn the volume up until policing practices change. Better late than never.
Turn the volume up until policing practices change. Better late than never.
164
Even on the show "Cops," which one can assume is cop friendly, i.e., the departments have elected to have their officers work filmed and broadcast, I sometimes see what seems like inappropriate (or unnecessary) escalation of the situation by the cop. For example, in one episode a young man is pulled over very near his home. While the cop is questioning him, his parents come out. The cop tells them to go back in the house. The dad just stands there, so then the cop tells him to go sit on the curb by the cop car. The man goes over, but stands rather than sitting. Shortly the cop has gotten into a physical struggle wrestling the man to the ground and 'cuffing' him, puts him in the cop car, arrests him. That, to me, seems like a cop offended because the man did not just jump, salute, and obey.
That said, I do think that body cameras are a mixed blessing. With the Cinci incident it seems entirely possible as the victim reached for his door presumably to get out that the cop felt threatened (a very young cop). Does that excuse what he did? No. Yet, it hardly seems like the hate filled ("he wanted to kill him") move that the DA said it was. I have concerns for those stopped, certainly, but also for the cops for whom a reaction to what they perceive to be happening at any moment (in a very dangerous job) can end up with them in prison for life.
That said, I do think that body cameras are a mixed blessing. With the Cinci incident it seems entirely possible as the victim reached for his door presumably to get out that the cop felt threatened (a very young cop). Does that excuse what he did? No. Yet, it hardly seems like the hate filled ("he wanted to kill him") move that the DA said it was. I have concerns for those stopped, certainly, but also for the cops for whom a reaction to what they perceive to be happening at any moment (in a very dangerous job) can end up with them in prison for life.
5
The police officer was the one trying to open the door -- from the first Times article on the stop:
"Officer Tensing starts to open the driver’s door and tells Mr. Dubose to remove his seatbelt; Mr. Dubose pulls the door closed again and restarts his car."
So, the cop shouldn't have felt threatened -- it was the cop's own actions that you're attributing to the victim.
"Officer Tensing starts to open the driver’s door and tells Mr. Dubose to remove his seatbelt; Mr. Dubose pulls the door closed again and restarts his car."
So, the cop shouldn't have felt threatened -- it was the cop's own actions that you're attributing to the victim.
1
I am a sixty year white male living in a small New England town and I dont trust the police one bit. They attitude they exhibit for even the most minor infractions is intimidating and hostile. I can not imagine how it must be for a minority that encounters them. The police have been give too much power and in Rhode Island a special "Bill of rights" that allow them special treatment not available to us citizens when charged with a possible infraction. The relationship between the police and citizens has gotten turned around they should be here to serve us not rule over .
45
Could not agree more. I am white, drive a noise car and I am terrified of the high school bullies reborn, now with guns. Watch that depressing show "Cops" and watch these thugs man handle anyone that even thinks of questioning the policemen in any way. In one episode, I have only seen a few, a young woman is coming out of a store and accused of stealing some clothes, when she seems surprised by being accused, the policeman throws her to the pavement. The officer goes through her bags and determines she has not stolen any items. He then extols her after taking off her cuffs to "watch out". Good lesson for the woman. And the cops get paid for this.
1
The cameras are wonderful and long overdue, given the willful refusal of the public to acknowledge this kind of behavior. I fear though that in many cases, like that of Eric Garner, prosecutors will continue to drop the ball when it comes time to file charges, or that as in the Simi Valley case, juries will fail to convict despite overwhelming evidence of malfeasance.
I'm equally concerned that the public, with characteristic naivete, will mistake the occasional for the routine, as it did in the case of child abductions. We see now a great deal of paranoia of the "I'm afraid my child will get shot in the back" kind, but in a nation of 300 million, the chance of being killed by a police officer is astronomically low, much lower than the chance of being killed by a civilian.
These videos -- and this is something that is overlooked -- also show the importance of responsible and rational behavior in interactions with police officers. Most of the deaths have been of those who resisted arrest, fled, or failed to cooperate. That is not to justify the actions of the police, but we would be fools to behave that way.
Finally, we have to face the possibility that the street justice traditionally meted out by the police was an effective law enforcement tool. I do not see this subject mentioned in newspaper articles. But the feeling among police officers has often been that if they had to rely solely on the revolving door justice system, predators would continue harming their victims.
I'm equally concerned that the public, with characteristic naivete, will mistake the occasional for the routine, as it did in the case of child abductions. We see now a great deal of paranoia of the "I'm afraid my child will get shot in the back" kind, but in a nation of 300 million, the chance of being killed by a police officer is astronomically low, much lower than the chance of being killed by a civilian.
These videos -- and this is something that is overlooked -- also show the importance of responsible and rational behavior in interactions with police officers. Most of the deaths have been of those who resisted arrest, fled, or failed to cooperate. That is not to justify the actions of the police, but we would be fools to behave that way.
Finally, we have to face the possibility that the street justice traditionally meted out by the police was an effective law enforcement tool. I do not see this subject mentioned in newspaper articles. But the feeling among police officers has often been that if they had to rely solely on the revolving door justice system, predators would continue harming their victims.
2
What you call "street justice traditionally meted out by police" is actually police brutality used to intimidate and oppress certain traditionally stigmatized communities to let them know that the police can do whatever they want to them. It tells members of these communities to stay in their place (in ghettos (where housing and services are inferior) and not in white spaces) and in subordinate roles as person who have little constitutional rights that the police need to respect. This behavior has been going on for many decades and if you read, for example, some James Baldwin (who grew up and lived in Harlem most of his life) essays on the topic you would find that little has changed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Josh, I've lived in the south most of my longish life. And street justice as it was and is has not been justice. It has been lawlessness with a badge.
I believe that the "rush to video" for police officers is a "mistake, and is being done to pander to the public, and encouraged by the media, as a solution to all police/citizen woes. It will not happen. I also believe that body cams for police, should the idea spread like wildfire as it obviously doing, is not a fair evaluation of job performance, with a few notable exceptions. If bodycams are the fix-everything solution for police, why are they not the problems solvers for all public employees - and private employers if they wish to do so. Should we not expect better performance from, say, firemen? Teachers? Crossing guards? Office staffs? And, by all means, why not require all elected officials to wear them? There is certainly more "not getting it right" or not being "fair" in our Congress than in all of law enforcement. If it is going to be done, why not do i completely and correctly rather than selectively?
5
Teachers, fireman, paramedics and crossing guards do not have guns or the right to shoot people in "moments of danger and risk". If they did, they should also wear cameras. BUT they don't. Also cameras are not used to measure performance but to provide accountability. As these cases show, police lie and their fellow police are also willing to lie for them. Even if they felt in danger, the facts show that they lie and made up a different story in their reports. Thus they lost all credibility.
2
When firemen, teachers, crossing guards and office staff start killing people who they interact with you bet they'll wear cameras also.
2
The problem is that the police *kill* people, and then they frequently lie about what actually transpired before the killing. And when multiple officers are involved, instead of converging on the truth, they often collude on creating a false narrative backing the guilty officer.
There's really no comparison with firefighters or crossing guards.
There's really no comparison with firefighters or crossing guards.
1
Black men make up only 6% of the adult population, but they are the victims in 90% of the murder-by-cop videos. I find it bizarre that people are still saying it's not racism.
36
What is wrong with having police supervisors periodically review dash-cam and body cam footage to ensure officers are conducting themselves in the best possible way? Would this not allow police management to correct problems before a death or injury results?
9
Oh, OK and do you have a fox to guard my henhouse.
What we see in these videos is more than just the abusive use of force by a few officers. What we see is systematic cover up. The so-called Blue Wall of Silence demonstrates the corruption in the culture. It is hard for me, then, to respect police at all. Even if the cameras show that most interactions go off without an incident, the many videos that do show abuse demonstrate the resentment the police hold for us, the citizens of this country. When it is clear the police do not respect me, in short, it is hard for me to respect the police.
31
Tithe problem is that the instinctive reaction by the Police to bad cops is always to defend them and their actions. If instead the Police admitted that there are problems and bad cops exist and will be prosecuted, then we would have more trust. Defending the indefensible is what is breaking trust.
19
One thing striking is what some of these people have been pulled over for -- improper lane change and a broken tail light.It should be relatively easy for someone -- perhaps a college criminal justice class -- to review a year or two of local police records and see how often drivers were stopped for such minor, or imagined, infractions and how that breaks down by race.
17
Not everything can be tied to racism and brutality. The cams also show how prevalent stupidity is, and why it should be criminalized. Of course racism is dumb, but irrational fear of racism Is also dumb.
Let's face it: the shooting in OK and the one in OH were both the result of one dumb guy approaching another menacingly. In Cincinnatti there was no reason for the driver to not cooperate with the officer. Turning the ignition signaled the start of "let's see who's dumber" contest. Sadly it was the guy with the weapon. Charge him with stupidity and lock him up for life.
Let's face it: the shooting in OK and the one in OH were both the result of one dumb guy approaching another menacingly. In Cincinnatti there was no reason for the driver to not cooperate with the officer. Turning the ignition signaled the start of "let's see who's dumber" contest. Sadly it was the guy with the weapon. Charge him with stupidity and lock him up for life.
3
Where did all these police officers from across the country get this clear sense of impunity? They must have been behaving in this manner for a long, long time and getting away with it. Now we are able to see the results.
28
The web has been a miracle tool in promoting democracy, be it with videos or ability for people to voice their political and cultural views. Those on the losing end, hate that our new tools occasionally prevent their getting away with murder, literally and figuratively.
Similarly, C-Span promotes democracy, by sparing us the media spin.
Similarly, C-Span promotes democracy, by sparing us the media spin.
8
I've always treated cops as I would treat a rabid dog, very carefully; they have fists and guns and are good at lying. Being very polite and compliant even when I know they are being unreasonable has always worked for me. Some black people don't share my perspective. I admire their courage and applaud it.
That doesn't mean I approve of poorly trained, extremely aggressive cops; it just means that I've learned to avoid trouble.
That doesn't mean I approve of poorly trained, extremely aggressive cops; it just means that I've learned to avoid trouble.
15
That is how you get to be old.
1
They have fists and firearms and clubs and can use them with virtual impunity in a system that routinely believes their version of every story. So, yeah, I walk very softly around them.
1
We should all be aware of the literally MILLIONS of incidents over the past 100 years where police brutality occurred, without any video capture.
The same is true today - the great majority of police brutality is still not captured on video.
These people disgust me - they abuse and brutalize people, then show up at court, where they lie and say the abused was violent and threatened them, or other such dishonesty. The prosecutors and judges side with the cops every single time, without fail.
Please think about it - how many MILLIONS of times has this occurred? Now we know they are lying - just as the cops caught in these videos STILL lie (knowing they were filmed). The number is likely in the tens or even hundreds of millions, in terms of incidents in the US in the past 100 years where citizens were BRUTALIZED for no reason at all, none.
Every single day in America, hundreds, perhaps thousands of people are bullied and abused by police. I know there are definitely good cops, but unfortunately a whole lot of bad ones as well.
The same is true today - the great majority of police brutality is still not captured on video.
These people disgust me - they abuse and brutalize people, then show up at court, where they lie and say the abused was violent and threatened them, or other such dishonesty. The prosecutors and judges side with the cops every single time, without fail.
Please think about it - how many MILLIONS of times has this occurred? Now we know they are lying - just as the cops caught in these videos STILL lie (knowing they were filmed). The number is likely in the tens or even hundreds of millions, in terms of incidents in the US in the past 100 years where citizens were BRUTALIZED for no reason at all, none.
Every single day in America, hundreds, perhaps thousands of people are bullied and abused by police. I know there are definitely good cops, but unfortunately a whole lot of bad ones as well.
16
As much as the videos provoke discussion of recent incidents and serve as evidence for justice in trails, may they also provoke thought about all the times that weren't captured on video. I've had a lot of conversations with people who thought race relations were fine (i.e. oh yeah, Obama is president) until the media started covering them. It's great to see communication's power--from activism/social media (#blacklivesmatter) to videos to reporting--bringing this issue to the forefront. Turn the volume up until policing practices change. Better late than never.
7
The cameras are also showing a public that is acting very irresponsibly and childlike. I think the technology should also be used to record and publicize each encounter to demonstrate this.
6
I definitely agree with your comment! One problem that I seem to be finding is that many people justify the irresponsible and childlike behavior by saying that it is not illegal to be rude to police. Even going so far as to say that they would do/say the same thing. From my perspective there seems to be confusion about the difference between respecting police and acting respectful to police. One does not need to respect police to act respectful to them.
Police departments already are using cameras to defend themselves against false claims of abuse. You see this in large demonstrations.
But to your point, the impulse you see in many or most cops is to escalate conflict and "win" every confrontation. There's too much ego involved and they don't know how - or aren't trained to - de-escalate a confrontation. They also are very quick to put their hands on people.
The people who run police departments have to give officers clear objectives and clear guidelines on how to achieve those objectives.
And you have to give people a chance to walk away from a confrontation. The Eric Garner situation got out of control because some brass saw the men on the corner and gave an order to "clean it up." So, you had these plainclothes cops shot out of a canon, putting hands on Garner, and we know the result.
My point being that they went outside normal procedure.
They should have sent two uniformed cops to say "You've got three minutes…if you're still here at that point, we're going to arrest you."
Eric Garner made a lot of unwise choices that put him in repeated contact with the police. That made him a nuisance, but that also made him easier to deal with. He wasn't going to be put off by the stigma of an arrest, but he wouldn't want to be off the street and lose out on making money.
But to your point, the impulse you see in many or most cops is to escalate conflict and "win" every confrontation. There's too much ego involved and they don't know how - or aren't trained to - de-escalate a confrontation. They also are very quick to put their hands on people.
The people who run police departments have to give officers clear objectives and clear guidelines on how to achieve those objectives.
And you have to give people a chance to walk away from a confrontation. The Eric Garner situation got out of control because some brass saw the men on the corner and gave an order to "clean it up." So, you had these plainclothes cops shot out of a canon, putting hands on Garner, and we know the result.
My point being that they went outside normal procedure.
They should have sent two uniformed cops to say "You've got three minutes…if you're still here at that point, we're going to arrest you."
Eric Garner made a lot of unwise choices that put him in repeated contact with the police. That made him a nuisance, but that also made him easier to deal with. He wasn't going to be put off by the stigma of an arrest, but he wouldn't want to be off the street and lose out on making money.
[[SH USA
From my perspective there seems to be confusion about the difference between respecting police and acting respectful to police. One does not need to respect police to act respectful to them.]]
People get frustrated after years of oppression and abuse. The situation in Ferguson was not unique. So the woman who allegedly killed herself in jail, it would have taken an immense effort for her to rein in her frustration and contempt. It was the obligation of the trooper, who probably makes a dozen traffic stops a day, to control the situation. Giver her a ticket and move on. The bit about putting out her cigarette was petty and unneeded aggression.
From my perspective there seems to be confusion about the difference between respecting police and acting respectful to police. One does not need to respect police to act respectful to them.]]
People get frustrated after years of oppression and abuse. The situation in Ferguson was not unique. So the woman who allegedly killed herself in jail, it would have taken an immense effort for her to rein in her frustration and contempt. It was the obligation of the trooper, who probably makes a dozen traffic stops a day, to control the situation. Giver her a ticket and move on. The bit about putting out her cigarette was petty and unneeded aggression.
As far as I'm concern, this is such a non-debatable issue. Body cameras are needed to see what our officers' interaction is like with the community. All the other issues that come with having the cameras can be ironed out in time, but not at the cost of not implementing them at all. Of course, it won't turn bad cops into good ones magically overnight. No one's that stupid to believe that the cameras alone can do the magic. But it's an important step in that direction.
9
Yes cameras are putting a spotlight on police brutality, but we still have prosecutors who refuse to do their job even after the camera shows police misdeeds. In New York, the prosecutor refused to indict the policeman who killed Garner, In Chicago the prosecutor and the judge blew the case against an off duty officer who shot into a crowd and killed an African American woman. The prosecutor in New York, Mr. Donovan, went on to run for the office of Republican US Rep and won.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/05/eric-garner-prosecutor-elec...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/05/eric-garner-prosecutor-elec...
8
Police unions will have to fundamentally change and begin outing the bad apples.
Better for all of us.
Better for all of us.
12
excuse the bad pun, "When pigs learn to fly"
1
I'm telling you my friends in blue, the GOP will be coming after your labor union soon...mark my words.
These body cameras will be used to destroy your collective bargaining agreements.
Did you actually think Koch brother owned property was going to stop after underminding teacher unions?
Grow up my friends in blue and recognize that your labor union is now in the Koch brother's sights.
These body cameras will be used to destroy your collective bargaining agreements.
Did you actually think Koch brother owned property was going to stop after underminding teacher unions?
Grow up my friends in blue and recognize that your labor union is now in the Koch brother's sights.
1
None of this surprises me. Everyone should go back and watch the movie Serpico with Al Pacino
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And we have to learn that carrying a gun or being given power above or over another human create psychological changes in both parties. After watching Serpico , next read and watch about the movie the Stanford prison experiment, and you will not be shocked about what you see when you apply that to all the videos that are coming out now showing the brutality of someone with a gun against someone who doesn't have a gun. It is obvious to me that we will never be able to change human behavior, therefore to protect our society we must compel all policeman to wear the body cameras, and I will go so far as to say that in the future all military person's in combat should be required to wear cameras at all times. Looking into the future since the NRA is so strong and we will never be able to regulate guns , the only long-term solution that I see is to mandate that every gun in the United States come already equipped with a video camera on it. Once that happens most violent crime will cease to exist.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And we have to learn that carrying a gun or being given power above or over another human create psychological changes in both parties. After watching Serpico , next read and watch about the movie the Stanford prison experiment, and you will not be shocked about what you see when you apply that to all the videos that are coming out now showing the brutality of someone with a gun against someone who doesn't have a gun. It is obvious to me that we will never be able to change human behavior, therefore to protect our society we must compel all policeman to wear the body cameras, and I will go so far as to say that in the future all military person's in combat should be required to wear cameras at all times. Looking into the future since the NRA is so strong and we will never be able to regulate guns , the only long-term solution that I see is to mandate that every gun in the United States come already equipped with a video camera on it. Once that happens most violent crime will cease to exist.
7
Interesting idea. The cam must be turned-on for the trigger to work!!!
While the cameras are not necessarily a bad idea, there are problems that will come with it. What isn't shown may be the difference the officer shooting or not. People do not understand police have the right to protect themselves. They are allowed to "one up" the civilian. For example, if a person is coming at them with a knife, they are allowed to shoot. So if they have a valid reason to feel their lives are threatened they have the right to take action. Police officers are also getting bad reputations from the small amount of officers who do abuse their power. Yes, there are officers that are violent and racist, but that does not mean that police as a whole are. These viral videos are only showing one side of the police and are causing a very negative opinion of them. What people don't hear about however, is the rest of the police who do their job and save lives, or are just kind people. Because people assume that police officers are bad and racist, people sometimes don't actually look at both sides of the story. While some are blatant examples of police brutality, others are not as black and white. In a society where murders and shootings are almost a common occurrence, a person who is supposed to look out for and save the lives of the people must take caution. There are bad people in every line of work, including politicians and doctors, and it is not fair to make generalizations about them as a whole because of the actions of a few.
3
Very few of these videos in question involve aa victim wielding a knife or a gun, thus the uproar.
Regarding good cops, doing good things, if caught on body, camera, what is preventing anyone from uploading? Instead of trolling and defending the indefensible, videos of good encounters should be uploaded. There are many on toutube and they are quite well recieved by all parties in this "debate". Are you suggesting that someone is preventing you from uploading examples of good policing? No. It is encouraged. The goal is not to pick on evil cops. It's to build a nation with more good cops.
Regarding good cops, doing good things, if caught on body, camera, what is preventing anyone from uploading? Instead of trolling and defending the indefensible, videos of good encounters should be uploaded. There are many on toutube and they are quite well recieved by all parties in this "debate". Are you suggesting that someone is preventing you from uploading examples of good policing? No. It is encouraged. The goal is not to pick on evil cops. It's to build a nation with more good cops.
You know it is just not true that this new coverage of the police is somehow inherently unfair, basis or over generalized. As the article points out 52% of the people polled still have “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of confidence in the police," That is not a one sided view. The truth is for the first time we are seeing unimpeachable proof of police misconduct, something that here to fore was all but absent from both media coverage and public discussion. So the real change is that the voices of the victims and their survivors and finally being heard. This is a shift but it is not a shift toward an unfair characterization of the police it is a shift that is shedding light on a national problem that needs corrective action. The videos are not the problem it is what they are showing that is a problem. Not all police are bad but can't we all agree that all bad cops should go!
The problem is you don't know which is good and which is bad and that goes both ways as well. You have to understand African Americans have been experiencing this long before cameras, its a race that has been crying out for someone to step up and acknowledge what's happening in society. And now that there is conformation of what has been said...it's still not acknowledge as "hate crimes" and it appears that still no help is coming. It's frustrating I raised 3 black men ...I fear for them everyday....I pray for them every night.
2
For decades, I saw some police officers tell the most outrageous lies. It was a serious problem to deal with them. They did it not only cover up police abuses, they did it to convicted people. That was very far from all police officers, but it was far too many of them.
This has two effects, proof in some cases, but even more important a change in attitudes willing to consider all evidence available.
True, this is not the magic elixir. It shifts things. It shows lies on both sides, where before we had a steeper uphill climb against a presumption of lies on just one side.
It will to an increasing extent inhibit lies. It won't stop it, but it will curtail some of it. There will be some people on both sides who are very careful about what is and is not recorded, and who tell better calculated lies. But it will change that in important ways.
More important is that it will shift the balance of attitudes. Prosecutors, judges, jurors, and reporters will all be more willing to consider that the police version is just one version. Just that, without proof in any one case but more willing to consider all the evidence, will be a fundamental change.
We have seen the same thing happen with forensic science. There is an expectation that some things can be proven, and so must be proven or it won't be automatically believed.
All of this is very helpful to getting prosecutors, judges, and juries to consider what really happened, and even get news reports to consider it.
This has two effects, proof in some cases, but even more important a change in attitudes willing to consider all evidence available.
True, this is not the magic elixir. It shifts things. It shows lies on both sides, where before we had a steeper uphill climb against a presumption of lies on just one side.
It will to an increasing extent inhibit lies. It won't stop it, but it will curtail some of it. There will be some people on both sides who are very careful about what is and is not recorded, and who tell better calculated lies. But it will change that in important ways.
More important is that it will shift the balance of attitudes. Prosecutors, judges, jurors, and reporters will all be more willing to consider that the police version is just one version. Just that, without proof in any one case but more willing to consider all the evidence, will be a fundamental change.
We have seen the same thing happen with forensic science. There is an expectation that some things can be proven, and so must be proven or it won't be automatically believed.
All of this is very helpful to getting prosecutors, judges, and juries to consider what really happened, and even get news reports to consider it.
25
I'm not sure that the thrust of this article, that police violence is rare is true. Stats show that up to 40% or more of police, sports figures and military have been involved in domestic abuse. This tells me, that abusive behavior by police, is likely much much more than this article relates. It is not a tiny fraction of police behavior, nor is it in our society. We should be asking ourselves, why this is. Bullies are most often the product of bullying. We've been a country now too long at war. It's time to cultivate the behavior of peacetime in our dealings with each other, our children and the world's other citizens. Bullying has become a national problem, expressed in racism, mysogny, corporatism and endless wars. The police are us. We need to do better at loving one another.
56
No only is bullying a national problem, with our never-ending imilitary involvement somewhere overseas, it seems bullying has become a national practice no matter what nonsense words our politicians use to try to hide it.
1
It's classic: Bullies are the first to scream 'foul' when you stand up to them. I'm not calling ALL police bullies, but those who kill a person without just cause. In both the Cincinnati case and the one in North Charleston the common factor is that the camera caught a shooting that was utterly indefensible. Unbelievably, the officers' accounts include total fabrication and even manipulation of the crime scene. Did they forget that there were cameras? Sadly, it makes me wonder if that had always been their tactic. And yes, this will have a negative effect on the vast number of officers who do their job honestly. To those who cry 'foul' and mention all the peaceful encounters I can only say that when someone is killed it is a vastly different situation. The positive result of this is that a lot of white people who would like to think the law is applied fairly will understand that it isn't. White, conservative, christian men and the society they represent have always had the benefit of the doubt, the unspoken free pass, the wink and the nod. That broken tail light? 'Get it fixed buddy, have a nice day' -- I realize I'm generalizing, but for the most part it is the sad truth. Or used to be. Most people in the group I mention understand this. To those who refuse I can only say: Get over it ... ps - I am white, male, heterosexual, christian (not a churchgoer, but in my personal code) but NOT conservative.
111
In the criminal justice system, white women, not white men, are the most privileged group.
Video cameras are not the panacea. The culture is the problem. It feeds on itself, changing people within some departments, so after a few years they may not know the mob mentality that as affected behavior and decision making process. To pull a gun during routine traffic stop and shoot someone in the head, to shoot someone in the back as they are running away, to listen to someone say that he can't breathe over and over again and still continue, to roll up on a young boy with a toy gun and shoot without any question, these behaviors come from dysfunctional departments that stokes a mob mentality and breeds racial profiling. In order to be accepted by one's peers, cops may have to bend to certain culture. The cameras may catch some corruption, but not until the culture changes, will we see progress.
84
To reply "Good" to a young woman who claims she is epileptic (Sandra Bland).
True, the culture needs to change. But what will cause the culture to change? The complaints by blacks and other minorities over the decades have been ignored and dismissed.
It's the videos corroborating the civilians' claims and contradicting the police versions that are putting pressure on the police and their bosses to change. While the cameras will not always unequivocally show what really happened, they will do so often enough to break down the blue wall of silence that has protected cops so far.
It's the videos corroborating the civilians' claims and contradicting the police versions that are putting pressure on the police and their bosses to change. While the cameras will not always unequivocally show what really happened, they will do so often enough to break down the blue wall of silence that has protected cops so far.
1
The cameras are not a panacea.....they are a tool that can create the very change you seek.
Without the contrary videos, police know the magic words that they need to say and report to cover their brutality. Station beat downs have diminished because cop shops have video cameras proliferating.
While not a panacea, cameras strip away the veil that has allowed (mostly white) America to avoid the reality of police behavior. Coupled with national coverage, the common list of police atrocities is now better known. We know the names of the victims, we know their faces, and we can witness the brutality.
Not a panacea.....but a tool for change.
Without the contrary videos, police know the magic words that they need to say and report to cover their brutality. Station beat downs have diminished because cop shops have video cameras proliferating.
While not a panacea, cameras strip away the veil that has allowed (mostly white) America to avoid the reality of police behavior. Coupled with national coverage, the common list of police atrocities is now better known. We know the names of the victims, we know their faces, and we can witness the brutality.
Not a panacea.....but a tool for change.
1
These videos prove what many of us already knew, that many of our police are out of control, that they routinely disobey the law when dealing with citizens, and that their testimony is often blatantly false.
148
If ever there was an example of the police thinking that they are above the law, it was when the NYPD threw a giant temper tantrum when DeBlasio hurt their collective feelings. They decided, after turning their backs on the mayor at the two funerals of slain New York policemen, that they wouldn't do their jobs. If I had the power to do so, I would have fired every last one of them. More and more, I believe, LE have the feeling that the public is the enemy and by god, cameras or not, they can do what they damn well please.
289
Excellent! fire every single police officer. Then who will you call when your home is being robbed? or you are mugged or raped?
It must be wonderful to be a lefty liberal, who thinks everyone is innocent (except the "pigs") and that without any kind of police force, we will all live in harmony singing "Kumbaya".
It must be wonderful to be a lefty liberal, who thinks everyone is innocent (except the "pigs") and that without any kind of police force, we will all live in harmony singing "Kumbaya".
The writer says: "And while they represent just a tiny fraction of police behavior — those that show respectful, peaceful interactions do not make the 24-hour cable news — they have begun to alter public views of police use of force and race relations, experts and police officials say".
Referring to "a tiny fraction" is a distortion of the facts. The cases we are hearing about are the ones in which people have been killed AND fortuitously, the killing has been captured on video. The issue is, in cases where people are killed, how many of those killings were the result of police misconduct or police lack of professionalism? In all of those cases, how many involved video capture of the events? Without that information, it is totally unjustified to refer to "a tiny fraction".
That, however, is just a starting point. One has to assume that the vast majority of police abuse cases do not involved a homicide. What percentage of such cases rise to public knowledge and are captured on video?
What we have come to learn with the body cams, the dash cams and bystander cellphone cameras is more than enough to raise the alarm. We are long overdue for substantial retraining, better screened recruitment, and more seriously pursued disciplinary procedures. The good cops know that full well. The bad cops will deny it until they are seriously pursued and cleaned out of the system.
Referring to "a tiny fraction" is a distortion of the facts. The cases we are hearing about are the ones in which people have been killed AND fortuitously, the killing has been captured on video. The issue is, in cases where people are killed, how many of those killings were the result of police misconduct or police lack of professionalism? In all of those cases, how many involved video capture of the events? Without that information, it is totally unjustified to refer to "a tiny fraction".
That, however, is just a starting point. One has to assume that the vast majority of police abuse cases do not involved a homicide. What percentage of such cases rise to public knowledge and are captured on video?
What we have come to learn with the body cams, the dash cams and bystander cellphone cameras is more than enough to raise the alarm. We are long overdue for substantial retraining, better screened recruitment, and more seriously pursued disciplinary procedures. The good cops know that full well. The bad cops will deny it until they are seriously pursued and cleaned out of the system.
84
The British newspaper, 'The Guardian' is keeping a count of Americans in America killed by police in 2015. As of today, July 31, 2015 the number is 669.
Why is no American media giant doing the same thing???????
Why is no American media giant doing the same thing???????
2
Now, if the camera footage didn’t exist, this would be another “he reached for my service weapon and tried to hold my arm as he sped away.” We’ll never know how many incidents were manipulated, for all we know there could be hundreds of fabricated stories.
I’ll agree, there is a certain common element within each and every one of these instances: if they had complied with the officer’s request, the tragic endings could have been avoided.
The police will earn respect when they respect the people, and not talk down to everyone in sight. In case you’re wondering, this is coming from a thirty year old white male in NYC, who would never even imagine speaking to a crackhead trying to wash his windshield with a filthy rag the way MOST (not all) members of the NYPD have spoken to him his entire life.
I’ll agree, there is a certain common element within each and every one of these instances: if they had complied with the officer’s request, the tragic endings could have been avoided.
The police will earn respect when they respect the people, and not talk down to everyone in sight. In case you’re wondering, this is coming from a thirty year old white male in NYC, who would never even imagine speaking to a crackhead trying to wash his windshield with a filthy rag the way MOST (not all) members of the NYPD have spoken to him his entire life.
41
Police officers should be treated like military personnel when there is a physical altercation with a civilian—like a weapon. They should be held to a higher standard and video certainly assists.
23
Before I retired from HR at a federal law enforcement agency I saw all of the misconduct allegations for a ten state area. Managers had a name for the overbearing behavior of some of the officers, "badge heavy". It was not at all unusual for the public to complain about officer misconduct, it was common. Once we began using cameras, as the prosecutor in this case said, nine out of ten times the officer was exonerated over false allegations. On the other hand, the union and arbitrators made it very difficult to discipline or fire officers for misconduct. I firmly believe that some officers go into the business because they like being bullies, not just to the public but also to their fellow officers. But they are not the majority, just a small percentage that do a lot of damage. The officer in this case was just a kid, 25 years old with only a couple of years on the job. I don't think he represents all police officers. I do think there should be more psychological testing of officers before they are hired, more cameras, a longer probationary period and a greater ability to discipline and fire officers who engage in misconduct before it gets out of hand.
68
A 25 year old is not "just a kid." 25 year olds have children, have served in the military, are EMTs and so much more. At 25 I had completed college, been a Peace Corp Volunteer, and served with the Red Cross in Viet Nam during the war. If you truly believe they are just kids, set age minimum at what...30, 35?
36
I agree. Power hungry bully type people seek positions as police. This needs to be countered in all training.
2
Joan - I hear you about age. Some people are mature at a very young age and others are immature at a very old age. Law enforcement officers are fired at all ages, including some who retire in lieu of being fired. That's why it is so important to have applicants undergo long probationary periods, e.g. for two years (police officers don't always have a regular supervisor and they work independently and on rotating shifts, away from the close supervision of one supervisor). Also applicants should be subject to psychological testing and polygraph examinations. Finally, instead of a higher age requirement, perhaps three years of experience at a responsible job (like the Red Cross or the Peace Corps) as well as college education requirements might provide a better background for new police officers. At the federal level, generally law enforcement agencies can (and do) hire new police officers right out of college or if they only have a high school diploma with three years of general experience, for example barista or landscaper (there are real examples, not hypothetical).
1
What is also frightening is that not only do we have police officers with guns who behave this way, when we dig deeper we also see how many times they are abetted by their fellow members of the force.
80
Indeed. The two officers who tried to cover up for the accused doctor his reports by falsifying their reports are now getting squeezed by investigators. These guys are not smart enough to know that it's not easy or nice to lie when the cameras are rolling.
2
“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
Yeah, it's funny that so many of these incidents just happen to be coming to light as cameras become more common. The interactions I have had with police over the years (I am White) have all been bad, the worst being a pistol whipping courtesy of the NYPD (plainclothes detective, no badge visible, did not identify himself) that had me thinking I was going to die, for the horrible crime of mistakenly trespassing on an abandoned lot in Queens. Then they charged me with felony burglary and threw me in the lockup overnight, only to be released the next day with no charges as they knew i would be. All in a days work for New Yorks' finest. If he had shot me by accident while slamming his gun against the back of my head, you can bet i would have been found with a gun lying next to me and his partner would have put it there.
Anyway, what these videos demonstrate to those who have not had the experience first hand is that a large percentage of cops behave violently for no reason and then systematically lie about it, and the so-called good cops do nothing.
Yeah, it's funny that so many of these incidents just happen to be coming to light as cameras become more common. The interactions I have had with police over the years (I am White) have all been bad, the worst being a pistol whipping courtesy of the NYPD (plainclothes detective, no badge visible, did not identify himself) that had me thinking I was going to die, for the horrible crime of mistakenly trespassing on an abandoned lot in Queens. Then they charged me with felony burglary and threw me in the lockup overnight, only to be released the next day with no charges as they knew i would be. All in a days work for New Yorks' finest. If he had shot me by accident while slamming his gun against the back of my head, you can bet i would have been found with a gun lying next to me and his partner would have put it there.
Anyway, what these videos demonstrate to those who have not had the experience first hand is that a large percentage of cops behave violently for no reason and then systematically lie about it, and the so-called good cops do nothing.
240
David was abused even though he is white. Police brutality is one thing, racism is another.
Also even if you do not agree with a police officer, there is no need to get offensive. If you are asked to get out of your car, why refuse. Maintaining that the Constitution forbids it, or saying that you are being singled out because you are not white is unreasonable. Police work is not easy, and good citizens should try to be cooperative instead of being offensive.
That does not mean that there are no bad/bully cops. And they should never be protected by their fellow cops or the Administration...
Also even if you do not agree with a police officer, there is no need to get offensive. If you are asked to get out of your car, why refuse. Maintaining that the Constitution forbids it, or saying that you are being singled out because you are not white is unreasonable. Police work is not easy, and good citizens should try to be cooperative instead of being offensive.
That does not mean that there are no bad/bully cops. And they should never be protected by their fellow cops or the Administration...
Couldn't agree more.
I'm an upper-middle class, middle aged white male. All of my friends are physicians, attorneys, economists, etc. And I have never had a single good encounter with a police officer - even in the very wealthy area where I grew up. It is always angry, heavy-handed, over-bearing, abusive behavior. So many cops are just angry, abusive people.
I have utter and complete distrust of cops. If my house were robbed I wouldn't even dream of calling the police - matters would only worsen. I know there are definitely good cops, but also a whole lot of bad ones.
I'm an upper-middle class, middle aged white male. All of my friends are physicians, attorneys, economists, etc. And I have never had a single good encounter with a police officer - even in the very wealthy area where I grew up. It is always angry, heavy-handed, over-bearing, abusive behavior. So many cops are just angry, abusive people.
I have utter and complete distrust of cops. If my house were robbed I wouldn't even dream of calling the police - matters would only worsen. I know there are definitely good cops, but also a whole lot of bad ones.
8
It is a culture where unfortunately to rat on a fellow cop is seen as the worst behaviour, even if not doing so will result in a criminal conviction for an innocent person. We recently had a case in Australia where an officer contradicted the testimony of her fellow police, in a case involving assault on police and resisting arrest, and as a result the case collapsed. She has already had to deal with the opinions of fellow police and my guess is that she will eventually leave the force. If they were wearing cameras this would never had reached court, and would likely have resulted in no charges.
5
I think this has less to do with police officers being racists, and much more to do with police officers being aggressive, easily angered and itching for a fight.
As far as I know, none of these videos show police officers using racist language. But virtually all of them show police officers acting aggressively and disinclined towards de-escalaing the situation.
You can screen out all the racist cops you want and it won't make a huge difference. But if you were to screen out all the very aggressive, impulsive cops who are eager to fight you would go a long ways towards solving the problem.
As far as I know, none of these videos show police officers using racist language. But virtually all of them show police officers acting aggressively and disinclined towards de-escalaing the situation.
You can screen out all the racist cops you want and it won't make a huge difference. But if you were to screen out all the very aggressive, impulsive cops who are eager to fight you would go a long ways towards solving the problem.
67
The obvious reply to this suggestion that Tensing is not racist, just 'aggressive,' is that he almost certainly would not have harassed a white man or woman in this case, and he certainly wouldn't have shot a white person in the face!
This is racist!
This is racist!
1
“A negative is that police might say, ‘We just won’t put ourselves in bad situations,’ that they say, ‘We are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’ ” said Francis T. Cullen, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati.
On the other hand maybe this wouldn't be needed if the same cops who are now worried about "looking" guilty, had spoken up when their co-workers ran amok in the past abusing people instead of maintaining the blue line of silence. Now all are painted with the same brush.
On the other hand maybe this wouldn't be needed if the same cops who are now worried about "looking" guilty, had spoken up when their co-workers ran amok in the past abusing people instead of maintaining the blue line of silence. Now all are painted with the same brush.
120
This shooting is another bizarre event. I am wondering whether there was really much of a racial factor involved or it was another extreme incompetence of the policeman. After watching the video, I am sure he was incompetent. The officer was clearly not the right person for the job or/and was not trained properly. Another question that comes to my mind, while watching this kind of videos, is why the police in the US always shoot to kill. In many (or at least some) other countries, the police force is trained to try to wound the perpetrator, and the straight killing is reserved to the most extreme cases. I understand there are risks involved in such approach but it seems we could avoid some unnecessary deaths and acute damages to our social fabric inflicted by horrendous human errors.
38
Okay shoot for not having a license
Brutalized for smoking in your car
Choked and killed for prior loose cigarette sales
Shot to death buying an air rifle while black at WalMart
This is my tazer this is my bang oooppps
The Fruitvale murder with a tazer disguised as a gun
Justifiable murder for skittles and tea.
12, armed with a toy and dead
When does it end???
Only with harsh jail terms will brutal cops be deterred. Only with the passive witness of a camera will these criminals be rooted out of the police departments.
Brutalized for smoking in your car
Choked and killed for prior loose cigarette sales
Shot to death buying an air rifle while black at WalMart
This is my tazer this is my bang oooppps
The Fruitvale murder with a tazer disguised as a gun
Justifiable murder for skittles and tea.
12, armed with a toy and dead
When does it end???
Only with harsh jail terms will brutal cops be deterred. Only with the passive witness of a camera will these criminals be rooted out of the police departments.
I am glad I gave-up my youthful ambition to become a police officer. If the recent videos have taught me anything, it is that there are a lot of defiant people with no regard for the legal authority of the police.
The police should be held to a high standard, but the police don't have the option to walk away from a fight. If everyone that didn't want to get a ticket decided to just mouth off and drive away did so with impunity, we would have lawlessness and anarchy.
The police need to earn the respect of the community, but the community must respect the authority of the police. There are two sides to this story.
The police should be held to a high standard, but the police don't have the option to walk away from a fight. If everyone that didn't want to get a ticket decided to just mouth off and drive away did so with impunity, we would have lawlessness and anarchy.
The police need to earn the respect of the community, but the community must respect the authority of the police. There are two sides to this story.
14
Why is it that the British, the French, the Germans and many other countries can do exactly that, arrest people later without escalation? Sometimes they have to deal with terrorists, but there are many fewer killings of citizens by police in other countries. Why do other countries have police departments which are respected by the citizens?
51
I absolutely agree that it's a two-way street. I have worked on and off with law enforcement over the years, and I have a healthy respect for what they do. But the operative word you said is "two-way." Police lose respect when they flout the law they're sworn to uphold and flaunt their authority simply because they can. When they -- the ones in power -- start treating those they encounter with respect, they likely will get it in return. Maybe not from all, but from most. And an officer who cannot handle -- or walk away from -- somebody mouthing off or driving away to avoid a ticket without using force has no business being a police officer.
67
If I go to a restaurant and I don't like the service, I can mouth off to the waiter. It may be rude and boorish, but it's not a crime.
If I get stopped by a cop for a traffic violation, and I think it's a stupid ticket just to fill his quota (which does happen), I can mouth off to the cop. It may be rude and boorish, but it's not a crime.
The cop has no right to arrest me or treat me differently because I mouth off. Being defiant is not a crime. "Disrespect of cop" is not a crime, although many cops (illegally) treat it like one.
If you take a job where you stop people on the highway and give them tickets, you can expect a lot of them to get annoyed, defiant, rude and boorish. If you're not prepared to take that professionally, then don't take the job. There are lots of people who can do the job professionally and would be glad to get that salary and benefits.
I'm glad you didn't become a cop.
If I get stopped by a cop for a traffic violation, and I think it's a stupid ticket just to fill his quota (which does happen), I can mouth off to the cop. It may be rude and boorish, but it's not a crime.
The cop has no right to arrest me or treat me differently because I mouth off. Being defiant is not a crime. "Disrespect of cop" is not a crime, although many cops (illegally) treat it like one.
If you take a job where you stop people on the highway and give them tickets, you can expect a lot of them to get annoyed, defiant, rude and boorish. If you're not prepared to take that professionally, then don't take the job. There are lots of people who can do the job professionally and would be glad to get that salary and benefits.
I'm glad you didn't become a cop.
120
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/us/through-lens-of-video-a-transfor...
"Glare of Violence Is Shifting Public's View of Police"
The use of video evidence is completely necessary and helpful. Not only do they provide the case with the necessary evidence, but the videos enable the public to have a clear view what what occurred. It is understandable that police officers would find body cameras to be a hindrance because it exposes their work. Of course they could make small mistakes here and there, but it is the duty of a police officer to provide the public with protection. I believe that these video tapings are definitely effecting the public's view of police. That's to be expected, we are now getting an inside look in their job and witnessing extreme failures on the forces behalf. It is unfortunate that the public is only seeing the negative and not the positive, but if the negative wasn't so horrible then none of this would be a concern. I love the idea of body and vehicle cameras because they hold the police accountable for their actions, whether good or bad.
"Glare of Violence Is Shifting Public's View of Police"
The use of video evidence is completely necessary and helpful. Not only do they provide the case with the necessary evidence, but the videos enable the public to have a clear view what what occurred. It is understandable that police officers would find body cameras to be a hindrance because it exposes their work. Of course they could make small mistakes here and there, but it is the duty of a police officer to provide the public with protection. I believe that these video tapings are definitely effecting the public's view of police. That's to be expected, we are now getting an inside look in their job and witnessing extreme failures on the forces behalf. It is unfortunate that the public is only seeing the negative and not the positive, but if the negative wasn't so horrible then none of this would be a concern. I love the idea of body and vehicle cameras because they hold the police accountable for their actions, whether good or bad.
15
There should be video cameras on every uniform, and in every patrol car, interrogation room, and jail cell. The innocent have nothing to fear.
62
I just read the article on the Sandra Bland case and the anger in the Texas legislature after viewing the video there. Sounds like the dopey Sheriff Glen Smith in Waller Co finally came up with maybe he should have put Ms. Bland on a suicide watch after an international audience watched the video of Mr. Encinia and internet justice came raining down on his head.
The larger picture of woman stopped for blinker violation by a stun-gun hot head who ended up sitting on her and claiming he was attacked by her doesn't seem to have penetrated the the dim consciousness of the guy running the show in Hempstead. His thinking seems to be that everyone driving through Hempstead needs to now be considered a suicide risk due to the possibility that his law enforcement may try to manhandle you, charge you with a felony, and stick you in their jail. Once that is done, he will be all about the suicide watch from now on. Somehow Officer Encinia soldiers on, with pay. Unreal.
The larger picture of woman stopped for blinker violation by a stun-gun hot head who ended up sitting on her and claiming he was attacked by her doesn't seem to have penetrated the the dim consciousness of the guy running the show in Hempstead. His thinking seems to be that everyone driving through Hempstead needs to now be considered a suicide risk due to the possibility that his law enforcement may try to manhandle you, charge you with a felony, and stick you in their jail. Once that is done, he will be all about the suicide watch from now on. Somehow Officer Encinia soldiers on, with pay. Unreal.
147
To demonstrate where our true standards are, I believe the precipitating event that led to Ms. Bland's arrest was her failure to obey the officer and extinguish her cigarette. Therefore she immediately had two strikes against her; she was a black female cigarette smoker.
Better watch out where and when you light up, because apparently it's a crime if it offends the arresting officer's PC sensibilities.
Better watch out where and when you light up, because apparently it's a crime if it offends the arresting officer's PC sensibilities.
Officer Encinia does not work for the sheriff of Waller County. He is a state police officer who is employed by the State of Texas.
west: Apparently he uses the Waller County jail where the sheriff of Waller County is in charge.
1
Last month I was pulled over by a county sheriff. When he came to the window, I said, “Good morning officer.” He replied, “License, registration, proof of insurance.” I asked, “What did I do?” He said again except MUCH MORE FIRMLY, “License, Registration, Proof of insurance!” I was then issued a ticket for failing to make a complete stop. I complied [boy did I comply] and signed the ticket. In that moment, even over an innocuous moving violation, my first ticket in over 17 years, I felt invaded, humiliated and grossly disrespected- All I asked was, “What did I do?” In that COPS eyes, I was the same as a fleeing violent felon with multiple warrants. My 14 year old son who was with me asked, “Why didn’t he say good morning back?” I said, “That’s just how they are son, that’s just how they are.” Never judge from a population of 1- but in this instance, I don’t mind indicting the entire police force to be cold, callous and downright rude! Fire ‘em all and start over. Yes- all this vitriol over a traffic ticket! I guess you can say I’m hopelessly jaded.
452
Before the officer checks your id, you could be a serial police killer for all he knows. So he doesn't want to spend anymore time at your window than necessary until he runs your id. More cops are killed at traffic stops than in any other single aspect of the job. I don't know why people feel it's important for cops to be nice to them at times when they are going about their very serious and dangerous job.
9
no need to be rude…
8
Because I likely help support his family with benefits and salary, The intentional bias from officers of the court, or those purported to be, for whatever a cop says has led us to where we are.
1
The police officer in the Waller County, Tex case is Hispanic not white:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland
7
@ schbrg
Oh, please! Who cares?
Clearly you do. So please inform yourself.
The US Census Bureau has two approaches to defining a Hispanic or Latino.
1. "A member of an ethnic group that traces its roots to 20 Spanish-speaking nations from Latin America and Spain itself (but not Portugal or Portuguese-speaking Brazil). People identifying as Hispanic or Latino according to this view would include descendants of the Conquistadores and the Kings of Spain and white citizens or residents of Spanish-speaking countries; Sephardic Jews descended from Jews who lived in Spain and Portugal and were expelled by the Inquisition in 1492; persons descended from the Indian populations of the New World who were conquered by Spanish and Portuguese; persons of mixed blood descended from unions of the native populations in the New World and Spanish colonists (mestizos)
or
2. The other and much simpler approach: Who’s Hispanic? Anyone who says they are. And nobody who says they aren’t.
But I guess you haven't looked at Census queries that say "check the box":
Hispanic: white or Hispanic: non-white.
I didn't see him close up, but Officer Encinas (the cop who threatened to taser Sandra Bland before man-handling her off-camera) looked pretty white to me.
Oh, please! Who cares?
Clearly you do. So please inform yourself.
The US Census Bureau has two approaches to defining a Hispanic or Latino.
1. "A member of an ethnic group that traces its roots to 20 Spanish-speaking nations from Latin America and Spain itself (but not Portugal or Portuguese-speaking Brazil). People identifying as Hispanic or Latino according to this view would include descendants of the Conquistadores and the Kings of Spain and white citizens or residents of Spanish-speaking countries; Sephardic Jews descended from Jews who lived in Spain and Portugal and were expelled by the Inquisition in 1492; persons descended from the Indian populations of the New World who were conquered by Spanish and Portuguese; persons of mixed blood descended from unions of the native populations in the New World and Spanish colonists (mestizos)
or
2. The other and much simpler approach: Who’s Hispanic? Anyone who says they are. And nobody who says they aren’t.
But I guess you haven't looked at Census queries that say "check the box":
Hispanic: white or Hispanic: non-white.
I didn't see him close up, but Officer Encinas (the cop who threatened to taser Sandra Bland before man-handling her off-camera) looked pretty white to me.
16
But that does not fit with the "politically correct" narrative, which is evil racist white cops murdering innocent black civilians for no reason.
1
Thank you for our response. You write "Who’s Hispanic? Anyone who says they are. And nobody who says they aren’t."
Does that apply to Asians? Black people? Clairette, Do Latinos actually exist, Or is it just a matter of perception? A definitional mirage? Who defines whom is the pivot point of racism.
Does that apply to Asians? Black people? Clairette, Do Latinos actually exist, Or is it just a matter of perception? A definitional mirage? Who defines whom is the pivot point of racism.
1
Now the cops are worried about regaining public confidence. Sorry pals you lost most of it a long time ago. Those who have had confidence must have been living in a dream-like state. We can thank those in power, not the politicians but their masters- corporate/rich masters who have set up an law enforcement system built on crushing the poor, and minorities using all violent and non violent means necessary. Video technology has finally born fruit. I remember watching the comedy show "In Living Color" back in 1992, in which Jim Carrey played a LA police Sargent Stacy Koon lecturing his police academy students. He said, "That's him. Kill the bastard with the video camera". A hilarious sketch. 20 years after the Rodney King video taped assault and finally people are waking up to our incompetent thuggish police forces.
49
" ... rush to judgment simply because of what the video shows .. "
It is NO RUSH, just indict the person on the evidence in the same time frame as you would indict a 'civilian' suspect.
It is NO RUSH, just indict the person on the evidence in the same time frame as you would indict a 'civilian' suspect.
82
"“A negative is that police might say, ‘We just won’t put ourselves in bad situations,’ that they say, ‘we are not going to jeopardize our lives because if we make a good-faith mistake, it is going to look like a crime, and we’re going to get prosecuted for murder,’ ” said Francis T. Cullen, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati.
Another drawback, experts say, is that the public may have too much faith in video. It can give an incomplete, even misleading, picture, they say, and it cannot really put the viewer in the shoes of an officer having to make split-second decisions under pressure."
Oh pul-eese. We're not all morons. A prosecutor or jury is capable of deciding whether an officer acted with reason, or not.
Another drawback, experts say, is that the public may have too much faith in video. It can give an incomplete, even misleading, picture, they say, and it cannot really put the viewer in the shoes of an officer having to make split-second decisions under pressure."
Oh pul-eese. We're not all morons. A prosecutor or jury is capable of deciding whether an officer acted with reason, or not.
36
True. These unnamed "experts'"implication that our seeing nothing at all is a better option than our seeing a "possibly misleading" video is absurd.
29
"Experts say the use of force by police has probably been lower in the last few years." Really? I'm sure it has been lower against whites, Asians, multi-racial, "post-racial" and other individuals who are not Black males! Every Black child in America is taught from birth that there is justice for Just Us i.e. caucasians only!
Unfortunately, nothing much has changed.
Unfortunately, nothing much has changed.
21
I am a white woman, senior citizen, and I'm now afraid of the police. I believe that if I'm ever stopped for a traffic violation, I must sit perfectly still, hands visible on the wheel, and not move until directed to do so. Of course you will say, but you're an elderly white woman, what do you have to worry about? That's precisely the point. I DON'T have anything to worry about (or shouldn't have), and so shouldn't fear, they wouldn't treat me badly. That is, I'm being profiled as older white. They wouldn't treat me as we've seen them treat other citizens, at least we hope not. That also means they ARE profiling the others, those black-skinned people, especially the male ones. I kinda want to demand, HEY, aren't you going to put a gun in my face, drag me bodily out of my car, slam me face down on the street? Why NOT? Aren't I as dangerous as the rest of them? Oh, you say I'm just an old lady. I see, so we're NOT being treated equal-- equally GOOD or BAD. Much as I don't want that treatment, I wonder what I've done to deserve better, or what THEY'VE done to deserve worse. This is the crux of the social issue.
664
Ah but if you are older they will take away your drivers license categorizing you as unfit to drive.
1,501 officers have been killed in the line of duty over hte past 10 years. During my childhood, my father was a police officer. It should come as little surprise that when he taught me how to drive at age 15, he told me, "If you are ever stopped or pulled over, you must sit perfectly still, hands visible on the wheel. Lower your window. Don't do anything else or suddenly make a move unless instructed to do so by the officer... Be respectful and make a note of the officers name and badge numbers"
If you need to understand the sense of imminent danger and potential death that officers encounter each time they approach a vehicle, look at the many videos online of cops being shot and killed during routing traffic stops. Sadly, it too, is far more likely than people want to imagine.
People can use a handful of videos of "bad police" to paint all police officers with the same broad sweeping stroke. By doing so, you are generalizing, marginalizing and stereotyping police officers as well. Do a handful of videos constitute the millions of police/civilian encounters? Such videos are no more reflective of a blight within law enforcement than are the videos of black men killing police officers.
In 2013, 409 whites were murdered by blacks. In that same year, 189 blacks were killed by whites. Based upon these statistics, am I to assume that black people are disproportionately violent and have a predilection toward killed white people? To do so, would make me a fool. Context!
If you need to understand the sense of imminent danger and potential death that officers encounter each time they approach a vehicle, look at the many videos online of cops being shot and killed during routing traffic stops. Sadly, it too, is far more likely than people want to imagine.
People can use a handful of videos of "bad police" to paint all police officers with the same broad sweeping stroke. By doing so, you are generalizing, marginalizing and stereotyping police officers as well. Do a handful of videos constitute the millions of police/civilian encounters? Such videos are no more reflective of a blight within law enforcement than are the videos of black men killing police officers.
In 2013, 409 whites were murdered by blacks. In that same year, 189 blacks were killed by whites. Based upon these statistics, am I to assume that black people are disproportionately violent and have a predilection toward killed white people? To do so, would make me a fool. Context!
2
One does not have to be black or young, just colored is enough to encounter abusive police behavior. I am a physician of Asian descent, a petite woman and, a senior citizen. A few years ago, in Edmond Oklahoma, I was flagged and, pulled aside for a traffic violation. It was actually a setup to trap motorists on a street I frequently traveled on. An empty school bus was parked on the other side of a 4 lane street with blinking lights. There was no one on the bus and, not a single pedestrian on the street. It was not the time for any school to be let out. Having analyzed the situation quickly I drove at normal speed. When the office approached, I muttered under my breath that they were too quick to jump on motorists. He shouted "SHUT YOUR MOUTH UP!' I was incensed and, told him no matter what the situation I deserved to be treated with respect. For that, he gave me a ticket and, let the two other motorists flagged at the same time, both white, to go with just a warning.
I have also had other encounters both in Oklahoma and, other States which were entirely proper. However, as I read Isabelle Wilkerson's "The warmth of other Suns", I have a clearer understanding of how sick a society we live in really is. I have encountered prejudice numerous tines in professional settings throughout my 40 year career in the US. Color prejudice is not confined to the US alone; one encounters it globally, in many countries including Asian and African countries albeit, not to the same extent.
I have also had other encounters both in Oklahoma and, other States which were entirely proper. However, as I read Isabelle Wilkerson's "The warmth of other Suns", I have a clearer understanding of how sick a society we live in really is. I have encountered prejudice numerous tines in professional settings throughout my 40 year career in the US. Color prejudice is not confined to the US alone; one encounters it globally, in many countries including Asian and African countries albeit, not to the same extent.
3
“Every time I think maybe we’re past this and we can start rebuilding, it seems another incident occurs that inflames public outrage,” said James Pasco, the executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police. '
Well Mr. Pasco in part the problem is you, your organization and the fact that the police close ranks when the actions of one of their own are called into question even to the point that other officers will blatantly lie to cover up a incident. You want trust you have to earn it. Cameras are just a tool but what is really needed is a universal evaluation system for police cadets and periodic examination of police officers for mental and physical fitness and a review of their arrests and or complaints filed against them and not by other police officers. We need protection from these cowboy cops.
Well Mr. Pasco in part the problem is you, your organization and the fact that the police close ranks when the actions of one of their own are called into question even to the point that other officers will blatantly lie to cover up a incident. You want trust you have to earn it. Cameras are just a tool but what is really needed is a universal evaluation system for police cadets and periodic examination of police officers for mental and physical fitness and a review of their arrests and or complaints filed against them and not by other police officers. We need protection from these cowboy cops.
574
Absolutely, I don't want to hear platitudes from Mr. Pasco, I want to to hear what positive actions the Fraternal Order of Police is taking to eradicate this disgrace.
2
At this moment in history, I can truthfully say that there are no good cops. If there are, why aren't they speaking up and doing something about this? Why do they keep "going along to get along?" Cowardly.
2
I guess the answer is none. Status quo.
I hope these police officers will be the first, to whom the democrats will apply their beloved gun control and background checks, because if there is a place where we need it, it's there.
14
You should spend a bit of time researching the screening process that is used for new officers in this country. If persons wishing to buy guns were subjected to the same process, you would be screaming foul.
2
Really! Obviously not in Cleveland, where the officer that literally murdered a young boy on camera was fired from his previous police force position (Independence, OH) for having accumulated a record of emotional instability, disregard for training, and ineptitude for the job so severe that he should have never been hired.
6
I find all this baffling that in our so called democracy we are beholden to individual police departments opinion on the policy of body cameras. The policy of the fair use these cameras and the rights to access the footage should be up to the public. Lets put it to a vote. Worries over privacy issues is ridiculous. The public are happy to agree to be filmed I'm sure. And I'm sorry, the cops have no privacy rights, they work for us and we own all the footage they shoot. One day we will look back at the systematic manipulation by these departments as a dark day in our history. But for now we are being held hostage to uncooperative public servants.
148
Are we all shocked at this? I did not think so.
20
“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.”
I don't doubt it. But until the good officers stop protecting the bad ones, the reputation of the police is going to suffer.
I don't doubt it. But until the good officers stop protecting the bad ones, the reputation of the police is going to suffer.
260
“We don’t want to rush to judgment simply because of what the video shows,” said Peter Weir, the district attorney for Jefferson and Gilpin Counties, in Colorado.
Yeah, God forbid we have justice.
Yeah, God forbid we have justice.
68
Police never pull you over just for a burned out taillight or failure to signal. Sure, that's their excuse, but they're always looking for something else. They find reasons to pull over citizens who fit certain demographics. I'm white, but I fit a "certain demographic," and I've been pulled over plenty for these minor infractions, often after the cop tailed me for a mile. Then the chitchat begins and you know they don't give a spit about that taillight. They want to know where you been, where you going, what are you carrying, why are you nervous, etc. Sure, you don't have to talk to them; I've tried that and it just makes them mad and prolongs everything.
My point is this: many cops consider, by appearances only, certain citizens to be enemies until proven otherwise. They are hunters, that is all. It's a matter of bad training and rotten culture and it needs to change. If it takes citizen pressure and videos to force this change, so be it.
My point is this: many cops consider, by appearances only, certain citizens to be enemies until proven otherwise. They are hunters, that is all. It's a matter of bad training and rotten culture and it needs to change. If it takes citizen pressure and videos to force this change, so be it.
396
Agree - these minor infractions are just the gateway. I've taught my kids to be sure their vehicle is never a "pull me over" car. Anything can happen after you've been pulled over.
When Chicago had a ticket quota for police such traffic stops used to greatly increase at the end of the month, which was the end of the each quota period.
1
I wish they would pull over more vehicles with non-working tail and brake lights. It is dangerous to drive behind a vehicle without brake lights. And, as my husband says, after you rear end the vehicle, the lights don't work and you're to blame.
“Police officers literally have millions of contacts with citizens every day, and in the vast majority of those interactions, there is no claim of wrongdoing, but that’s not news.” I can't speak for other groups, but most African Americans do not report inappropriate police behaviour because we believe the entire system is corrupt and being ignored or dismissed when reporting the same would just add insult to injury, or worse, bring unwanted repercussions. Also, the issue at hand is a disproportionate degree of interactions and use of force with blacks, who are a minority population, even when criminal activity turns out not to be a factor. It continually amazes me how police consistently deny that any form of bias exists within their ranks.
547
Well said, and common sense.
6
I've had a half dozen interactions with police officers in the last 20 years, where the officer inappropriately escalated the tension at the scene. I never reported them because i did not have faith (still do not) that anyone in authority actually cared or would follow up.
I agree that the major of police contacts as civil and productive, but I don't think it's an overwhelming one.
Following up on Jersey Alum, I'm a while male and I've seen numerous incidents of police misconduct, I can only imagine that my half a dozen experiences would be exponentially greater were I not.
Throw away palliative statements like the sentence JA highlights do a disservice to fact-based reporting. There may be in fact no official claim of wrong doing, but I know few who haven't had an inappropriate interaction with a law enforcement officer.
I agree that the major of police contacts as civil and productive, but I don't think it's an overwhelming one.
Following up on Jersey Alum, I'm a while male and I've seen numerous incidents of police misconduct, I can only imagine that my half a dozen experiences would be exponentially greater were I not.
Throw away palliative statements like the sentence JA highlights do a disservice to fact-based reporting. There may be in fact no official claim of wrong doing, but I know few who haven't had an inappropriate interaction with a law enforcement officer.
1
I'm white and tried to report inappropriate police behavior when I was the victim. My daughter and I were assaulted and when the officer showed up he looked at all the people who had been watching and told them (calling them witnesses) to leave or they would be arrested. He refused to watch video from several sourced of the crime and never spoke to the one person who saw it from the beginning. His police report said that we were the instigators even though it would be obvious from talking to witnesses and watching the video that he came on our property and started to hit us after we asked him to get his truck out of our driveway. It turns out the business this guy was delivering to was run by an ex-officer and our responding officer just took his story so that they could get their delivery.
I sent several weeks trying to report this officer but the department has the system to keep people from making reports down to a fine art. The story even ended up on the nightly news and still the police department had no interest in finding out what happened. I realized that if a white business owner who is the victim and can afford the time can't report an officer then I can only imagine how many other instances there are that are not reported.
I sent several weeks trying to report this officer but the department has the system to keep people from making reports down to a fine art. The story even ended up on the nightly news and still the police department had no interest in finding out what happened. I realized that if a white business owner who is the victim and can afford the time can't report an officer then I can only imagine how many other instances there are that are not reported.
2
When videos of police by citizens first started emerging police departments said, "It's illegal to shoot video of police," and officers began arresting civilians who filmed them. Once the courts made clear it was constitutional to film police then they said, "Oh, well, you didn't see what happened right before the video started," or "Videos don't tell the whole story - you had to be there to really understand." But now that videos with sound are ubiquitous we're beginning to get a very unflattering picture of routine police practices.
One of the most disturbing revelations is that many police officers are actually ESCALATING tension and confrontation rather than DIFFUSING conflict. We're also seeing videos of a lot of insecure officers who react in anger and violence and even deadly force when they feel disrespected or their feelings are hurt.
It's become abundantly apparent that many police officers perceive themselves as "ultimate authority figures" whose power is absolute, and they are easily threatened.
And finally, we're beginning to understnad just how pervasive officers' lying and fellow officers covering for them has become. Makes one wonder how many thousands of Americans (especially blacks) are languishing in prison based on little more than the word of a dishonest police officer. Recent events have more than proven that every police officer in the nation needs to be wearing a body camera with sound.
I hope jurors are paying attention to unfolding events...
One of the most disturbing revelations is that many police officers are actually ESCALATING tension and confrontation rather than DIFFUSING conflict. We're also seeing videos of a lot of insecure officers who react in anger and violence and even deadly force when they feel disrespected or their feelings are hurt.
It's become abundantly apparent that many police officers perceive themselves as "ultimate authority figures" whose power is absolute, and they are easily threatened.
And finally, we're beginning to understnad just how pervasive officers' lying and fellow officers covering for them has become. Makes one wonder how many thousands of Americans (especially blacks) are languishing in prison based on little more than the word of a dishonest police officer. Recent events have more than proven that every police officer in the nation needs to be wearing a body camera with sound.
I hope jurors are paying attention to unfolding events...
1115
Spot on Bill! Great Post!
3
Very well stated. Thanks
1
Bill, great comment!
1
The polls aren't asking the right question. It ought to ask "Do you have confidence in the police when they are engaging with an African American?". That answer will demonstrate the true feelings about the police.
10
I want to say cops should have non-lethal options at their disposal--as in all these videos the suspects/victims weren't exactly complying with the cop's orders (i.e., they were fleeing) and non-lethal force was warranted--but then you remember that "don't taze me bro" video or the one of the pepper spray of the sitting students at Berkeley and realize that non-lethal force is also subject to abuse. Maybe some innovation can solve the problem along with body cams.
10
A show was on TV here tonight, a rerun of a popular police drama about a family of cops you may know. The episode began with a police officer shot and killed by bad guys; then there was a large funeral, and the chase was on. Throughout, the attitude of the police was bitter, enraged, determined to avenge the death above all other things. Reporters who thronged the family for news were called "rats", people who would give condolences and then go on with life were referred to angrily (but what else could they do). And in the end, the shooter was cornered in a warehouse and shot by a large number of police who were aligned outside; there must have been hundreds of shots, and he jerked around like Sonny in the Godfather.
My point is not that an officer's death is not tragic. But the divide between the police's view of themselves and other cops and their view and treatment of civilians is profound. That kind of group identification and passion can create a closed society with an estranged, and ultimately even hostile, regard for the citizens "outside" the charmed circle. This estrangement is dangerous both in the possibility of over-reaction to resistance and of covering up for officers who do so, even in matters of life and death.
This closed culture needs to change, to no longer be romanticized, but to be seen as the danger it is.
My point is not that an officer's death is not tragic. But the divide between the police's view of themselves and other cops and their view and treatment of civilians is profound. That kind of group identification and passion can create a closed society with an estranged, and ultimately even hostile, regard for the citizens "outside" the charmed circle. This estrangement is dangerous both in the possibility of over-reaction to resistance and of covering up for officers who do so, even in matters of life and death.
This closed culture needs to change, to no longer be romanticized, but to be seen as the danger it is.
98
These dreadful shootings by police officers have much deeper roots than just racial discrimination. While African-Americans by far bear the brunt of this kind of policing, most Americans have learned through experience that you are not in the position to reason with a police officer, even when they are wrong or out of line. Because police officers are armed they do not have to rely on what the rest of us have to to gain the respect of others. What see in these videos, and I see in the attitudes of local and state police, is authority with a short fuse if it's not obeyed. I wish Americans could experience the policing in the other advanced nations. It is as different as chalk and cheese. These shootings are an abomination but they represent only the tip of a much larger problem: the basic philosophies of American policing: armed power and heavy-handed escalation when people are seen to step out of line.
19
Any video footage is better than no footage at all, just as some evidence is better than none in a criminal case. It's a starting point, a tangible marker, that spurs further investigation. We need not surrender ourselves to untestable "he said / she said" arguments anymore (which those in power always win). Let the cameras roll!
22
The root cause of this bad behavior from cops is the criminal nexus between politicians and police unions. The politicians use taxpayer dollars to pay the police their sky high salaries and gold plated benefits. In addition, they have also made it impossible to hold cops accountable for anything. The worst part is that taxpayers foot the bill for settlements paid to victims of police brutality- it should ideally come from the police pension funds.
19
The police act this way because that is how they are being trained and because they know the odds are they will face no more then some time off for their misdeeds. As long as we are training officers to shoot first and to escalate situations and be aggressive we are going to have problems. If the justice system does not start to hold the police accountable for their actions and protect peoples rights, life and liberty the people are likely to start taking matters into their own hand. You see this sort of policing in third world despotic nations and you also see revolt and violence against the government, that is the climate the police are creating. Be careful the world you make.
29
I think the media has done a great job in show casing the handful of officers that have abused their power, but the vast majority of police officers truly put their lives on the line each day to protect us.
In saying this, I think body cams should be mandatory for all police officers, not only to catch the officers who are abusing the power, but the body cams could also help to help others that are wrongfully accused.
In saying this, I think body cams should be mandatory for all police officers, not only to catch the officers who are abusing the power, but the body cams could also help to help others that are wrongfully accused.
9
If you are recommending body cams to catch "abusers of power", we are going to need millions and millions more of them. Such as for members of Congress. The Supreme Court. etc.
The difficulty in making reliable inferences from incomplete data is inherent in this and other walks of life.
In the case of the police however, it can have very serious consequences. One would expect, prima facie, that more data would decrease the unreliability (variance) of such inferences, so on that basis video data seems apropos.
As the article suggests however, this is not a silver bullet: uncertainty still remains.
The acid test would be to determine whether in fact video data does have the desired effect of greater disambiguation.
Let the experiment begin.
In the case of the police however, it can have very serious consequences. One would expect, prima facie, that more data would decrease the unreliability (variance) of such inferences, so on that basis video data seems apropos.
As the article suggests however, this is not a silver bullet: uncertainty still remains.
The acid test would be to determine whether in fact video data does have the desired effect of greater disambiguation.
Let the experiment begin.
2
For their own protection, all armed police officers who interact wtih the public should be required to wear tamper-proof cameras that that upload in real time. Officers should not object to this - if, as the spokesman states, the vast majority of encounters with the public are conducted peacefully, let`s document the way officers comport themselves ,and use the videos to train recruits in proper conduct.
18
Reality check this what happens when we sell out an become indebted .Culture we embrace with unlimited debt ceilings will eventually be our ruin just as was in fall roman empire. Unfortently it may be to late for next generation Police is just tip of ice berg of disrespect in this country largely due to route all evil money. Good luck blaming police they only represent us
While imperfect, cameras are an asset. Whether worn by an officer or recorded by passersby, footage shows physical contact, improper takedown techniques, aggression from one or both parties, onlooker involvement. They can also rectify eyewitness accounts, which were either misperceived, deliberately distorted or obscured with time. We will all be better off with cameras to, effectively, police the police.
18
If the police want to improve their image with the public then the police are going to have to police themselves. The good cops know who the bad cops are. They know which ones tend to be overly aggressive.
There have been ad campaigns run that try to get college males to step up and interfere when they see sexual abuse occur. Such abuse is everyone's business. The same principles should apply to police work. Unfortunately, the impervious macho image dominates. No one steps up. Showing restraint can get you killed on the job they say. But not showing restraint gets people killed by them.
I would not want to be a cop. It must be one of the toughest jobs there is. It is also one of the most important. Only a very special person should wear the badge. The hyper aggressive tough guy does not a good cop make.
Police departments across the nation are becoming increasingly militarized. Soldiers aren't supposed to make nice nice. They are trained to capture and hold objectives. They are trained to kill in carrying out those objectives. The police are not and should not be an occupying force but are playing that role at increasing levels. This must stop.
We tend to rely on technology to fix our social problems. This one cannot be remedied with small cameras. It's a personal problem that can only be fixed with personal intervention.
There have been ad campaigns run that try to get college males to step up and interfere when they see sexual abuse occur. Such abuse is everyone's business. The same principles should apply to police work. Unfortunately, the impervious macho image dominates. No one steps up. Showing restraint can get you killed on the job they say. But not showing restraint gets people killed by them.
I would not want to be a cop. It must be one of the toughest jobs there is. It is also one of the most important. Only a very special person should wear the badge. The hyper aggressive tough guy does not a good cop make.
Police departments across the nation are becoming increasingly militarized. Soldiers aren't supposed to make nice nice. They are trained to capture and hold objectives. They are trained to kill in carrying out those objectives. The police are not and should not be an occupying force but are playing that role at increasing levels. This must stop.
We tend to rely on technology to fix our social problems. This one cannot be remedied with small cameras. It's a personal problem that can only be fixed with personal intervention.
52
It seems that remarkably frequently, when a video surfaces after a violent confrontation between a police officer and a black citizen, it turns out that the police officer lied about important parts of the encounter, and too often, other officers falsely corroborate the dishonest testimony.
It makes you wonder how often the police perjure themselves both in these types of encounters, and even when they're testifying about things like finding drugs on arrested people. Are there any circumstances where the police actually feel obliged to tell the truth?
It makes you wonder how often the police perjure themselves both in these types of encounters, and even when they're testifying about things like finding drugs on arrested people. Are there any circumstances where the police actually feel obliged to tell the truth?
191
It's become obvious that If a cop tells the truth about his fellow cop, the truth teller will suffer repercussions within his department that will make his life insufferable. The ultimate machismo culture.
7
Police lie routinely. It's an open secret. The prosecutors know it, the defense attorneys certainly know it, and the judges know it. The judges and prosecutors just ignore it.
The best example were the arrests in front of the New York Public Library during the big peaceful march against the upcoming war in Iraq. The police arrested demonstrators and uninvolved bystanders indiscriminately, and charged them with resisting arrest and assaulting officers, which is a felony. They routinely charge people with felonies, so they will get long prison terms unless they plead guilty.
Then the defense attorneys found the videos which showed that the defendants weren't assaulting the cops or resisting arrest at all, and that the cops had committed perjury by falsely signing statements under oath that they did (also a felony).
The prosecutors under Bloomberg dismissed the cases, but they didn't prosecute the cops for perjury. That sent a signal to the cops that they're free to commit perjury again.
It looks like deBlasio can't do anything about the cops either. They're an occupying army free to abuse innocent citizens without accountability.
That shows you what you can get when you've got a strong union. The FOP is a disgrace to the union movement.
The best example were the arrests in front of the New York Public Library during the big peaceful march against the upcoming war in Iraq. The police arrested demonstrators and uninvolved bystanders indiscriminately, and charged them with resisting arrest and assaulting officers, which is a felony. They routinely charge people with felonies, so they will get long prison terms unless they plead guilty.
Then the defense attorneys found the videos which showed that the defendants weren't assaulting the cops or resisting arrest at all, and that the cops had committed perjury by falsely signing statements under oath that they did (also a felony).
The prosecutors under Bloomberg dismissed the cases, but they didn't prosecute the cops for perjury. That sent a signal to the cops that they're free to commit perjury again.
It looks like deBlasio can't do anything about the cops either. They're an occupying army free to abuse innocent citizens without accountability.
That shows you what you can get when you've got a strong union. The FOP is a disgrace to the union movement.
3
I always found it funny during jury selection, when the judge asks "Would you place more value on a police officer's testimony than on a regular witness?"
I haven't had the chance to answer directly, but my response is that I'm less inclined to be a police officer. Aside from the "closing ranks" and blatant lying that you're talking about, it's a police officer's job to help convict criminals. That is a conflict of interest to me that would always make me more skeptical of their testimony.
I haven't had the chance to answer directly, but my response is that I'm less inclined to be a police officer. Aside from the "closing ranks" and blatant lying that you're talking about, it's a police officer's job to help convict criminals. That is a conflict of interest to me that would always make me more skeptical of their testimony.
2
The Panoptican was an 18th century prison design by the English philosopher Jeremy Bentham. The idea was to create a sense of control and modify prisoner behavior by not allowing inmates to know if they were being observed.The use of body cams and the ubiquitous presence of cell phones can't help but modify police behavior. One shudders when you think of how many people of color have had their lives taken, or destroyed,by aberrant police conduct which went unpunished.
18
The police in my country (Australia) carry guns.
They rarely shoot anyone. Unlawfully shooting an unarmed civilian is even rarer.
The police in my country arent constantly on a hair trigger, ready to pull their guns out of fear the civilians they interact with might be carrying guns.
Despite our race problems we dont have the same apparent level of fear of, and disdain for, the different races that make up our society. On that front, words and actions matter.
Youre doing things the wrong way, America. Think about it.
They rarely shoot anyone. Unlawfully shooting an unarmed civilian is even rarer.
The police in my country arent constantly on a hair trigger, ready to pull their guns out of fear the civilians they interact with might be carrying guns.
Despite our race problems we dont have the same apparent level of fear of, and disdain for, the different races that make up our society. On that front, words and actions matter.
Youre doing things the wrong way, America. Think about it.
222
Dave, I agree we have made really wrong turns in the last 40 years. The problems associated with the War on Drugs, the Southern strategy, 9-11 giving police carte blanche, no gun control, lack of accountability for police has brought us to a terrible state. The 2nd amendment is hurting us more than helping us. You see the problem as do I. It is much more difficult to change this as their are powerful forces arrayed against this. What do you suggest?
7
"The police in my country aren't constantly on a hair trigger, ready to pull their guns OUT OF FEAR THE CIVILIANS THEY INTERACT WITH MIGHT BE CARRYING GUNS." I believe the prevalence of civilian gun ownership is a major reason why US police are in such a hair trigger state. That being said, I was astonished at the video of the officer who went for his gun when teenagers in bathing suits weren't immediately obeying their commands. He couldn't possibly have been in fear for his life.
The police have lost sight of their real role in society. They have become criminals and the majority of them are clearly racists pigs just looking to kill someone. They continue to kill innocent people while knowingly being recorded. Everyone I know, adults and children have no respect for the law and police and never call the police for help as they never help. They see them as they truly are, racists killers falsely imprisoning, murdering and extorting at every opportunity. These evil cops are protected by equally corrupt prosecutors, judges and police chiefs.
21
This massive change in public awareness is long overdue. If police officers and their leaders are smart, they will ride this wave to important change rather than try to counter it with weak arguments, like saying that someone was "non-cooperative" or "talking back", which are never, ever the basis for violence against citizens.
Understand this: the history of the entire world is one of people seeking power over others and often abusing it. History is written with rivers of blood flowing across its pages. Do we suppose that someone passes an entrance exam, under goes a few weeks of training and then, suddenly, he is a paragon of human virtue? Police see the ugly underbelly life every day, it is a brutal, stark view of humanity that burns brain with doubts, creates anger and internal turmoil. They have to work diligently to remain decent and restrained and, it is evident now as it was believed in the past, many fail.
Until it happens to you or someone you know, until you are pushed by a police officer to make this choice: shut-up and submit or you are going to be beaten, jailed or perhaps killed, you don't know what it is like. Officers know full well how to manipulate situations to put people in a corner, either submit NOW or risk being beaten, jailed or shot. The U.S. Park police in DC were ordered not to jump in front of fleeing cars so that they could shoot the driver. This is how the game is played, often. Force "respect" and compliance or force deadly violence.
Understand this: the history of the entire world is one of people seeking power over others and often abusing it. History is written with rivers of blood flowing across its pages. Do we suppose that someone passes an entrance exam, under goes a few weeks of training and then, suddenly, he is a paragon of human virtue? Police see the ugly underbelly life every day, it is a brutal, stark view of humanity that burns brain with doubts, creates anger and internal turmoil. They have to work diligently to remain decent and restrained and, it is evident now as it was believed in the past, many fail.
Until it happens to you or someone you know, until you are pushed by a police officer to make this choice: shut-up and submit or you are going to be beaten, jailed or perhaps killed, you don't know what it is like. Officers know full well how to manipulate situations to put people in a corner, either submit NOW or risk being beaten, jailed or shot. The U.S. Park police in DC were ordered not to jump in front of fleeing cars so that they could shoot the driver. This is how the game is played, often. Force "respect" and compliance or force deadly violence.
7
I don't know that statements such as "most of the time the police do a good job" or "most of the police do theri jobs professionally" are true.
I think that there are wide variations throughout the country. In New York City, we have situations where individual police officers rebel against what they see as directions from management to improperly target particular groups. On the other hand, there can be little doubt that in far too many cases police in small towns have little contact with people who are different and believe that it is their job to be judge and jury. Another issue is that in many cities the management of police departments is inadequate (at the least) and resources non-existent so police feel that it's "us vs. them."
The fact remains, that when, in every case the officer's account of civilian deaths is virtually identical across the country, it seems unlikely that all situations are identical. "The defendant was present, and therefore I feared for my life" just isn't credible.
I think that there are wide variations throughout the country. In New York City, we have situations where individual police officers rebel against what they see as directions from management to improperly target particular groups. On the other hand, there can be little doubt that in far too many cases police in small towns have little contact with people who are different and believe that it is their job to be judge and jury. Another issue is that in many cities the management of police departments is inadequate (at the least) and resources non-existent so police feel that it's "us vs. them."
The fact remains, that when, in every case the officer's account of civilian deaths is virtually identical across the country, it seems unlikely that all situations are identical. "The defendant was present, and therefore I feared for my life" just isn't credible.
24
There is something peculiarly American about "overwhelming force." Shock and awe and all that. Riot cops shooting teargas and flash bangs at peaceful protesters. SWAT teams busting down doors in night raids. Gangs of police beating the stuffing out of someone who asks a question or drags his feet.
It isn't like this everywhere. And yes, there are places where it is worse. Syria, for example, or Sudan. But in the richest country in the world you would think that police departments would be intellectually equipped to train peace officers how to relate to people like human beings.
Even if offenders *were* wild animals, the way American police treat them is not an appropriate way to treat a wild animal.
It isn't like this everywhere. And yes, there are places where it is worse. Syria, for example, or Sudan. But in the richest country in the world you would think that police departments would be intellectually equipped to train peace officers how to relate to people like human beings.
Even if offenders *were* wild animals, the way American police treat them is not an appropriate way to treat a wild animal.
287
Bad cops who behave like this want to be on tv, Mr. Appeldorf, and the tv shows are all about macho police bullying. I can just imagine the same bad cops we hear of in the news watching and cheering their "actor" buddies. Bad apples are spoiling the barrel.
2
Not all cops should have guns.
Only a few--like in UK.
These cops should be carefully selected for stability, ability to handle being cursed, even kicked, yet know that's not enough cause to kill someone.
Every cop should be handcuffed, behind his back, for one hour every 6 months so they understand that should be done rarely, not routinely.
It is very painful. Yet we say there's no punishment until after conviction.
Every cop should be taught that the "respect" of their motto is due to the citizen.
The cop is well paid, and chosen for his stability. He can handle some disrespect, just not disobedience of important direct orders needed in crisis situations.
The cop works for us, the citizens, not the other way around.
The bad apples need to be fired...very soon.
Only a few--like in UK.
These cops should be carefully selected for stability, ability to handle being cursed, even kicked, yet know that's not enough cause to kill someone.
Every cop should be handcuffed, behind his back, for one hour every 6 months so they understand that should be done rarely, not routinely.
It is very painful. Yet we say there's no punishment until after conviction.
Every cop should be taught that the "respect" of their motto is due to the citizen.
The cop is well paid, and chosen for his stability. He can handle some disrespect, just not disobedience of important direct orders needed in crisis situations.
The cop works for us, the citizens, not the other way around.
The bad apples need to be fired...very soon.
362
"Not all cops should have guns.
Only a few--like in UK."
-- The UK is also not awash in guns the way the US is. Putting law enforcement officers in harm's way and allowing them to be outgunned does not strike me as reasonable.
Only a few--like in UK."
-- The UK is also not awash in guns the way the US is. Putting law enforcement officers in harm's way and allowing them to be outgunned does not strike me as reasonable.
7
I would really like to know how police manage to keep order throughout Europe and Canada without excessive force, and high death. I understand our country is unique and not comparable in some respects. I also want to know why we are so opposed to finding this out and perhaps considering using some of their policing techniques.
310
Because, I'm afraid, most Americans don't have direct experience of alternative policing. Only 3% of Americans travel overseas every year, because they lack either the means or the interest, or both. They have no exposure to the kinds of interactions with, and low profile of, policing in, say, the UK. It would be an eye-opener. Also, there is still so much vestigial irrelevant hubris in this country that you'd be hard-pressed to find a politician who even admitted that things are often done far better in nations elsewhere.
16
Canadian here, also someone who has been arrested once (for driving too fast).
The short, not politically correct but unfortunately truthful answer to your question is that we don't have many African Americans, or rather those of african descent with similar cultural attitude of African Americans.
We don't have the class of people that you have who are raised in victimhood dogma, belligerent towards authority, resistant to police orders and chronically in violation of local and federal laws. When people here are arrested or approached, they are cooperative and compliant.
Every time I see or hear about the American episodes, I remember when I was pulled over and charged for driving dangerously (too fast for speeding ticket). The reason nothing crazy happened, was because I did not act like any of the 'victims' recently highlighted in your nation. In other words I did not:
- swear at officer
- lie, make excuses
- refuse orders
- charge the policeman
- assault the policeman
- try to grab policeman's gun
- try to run away or drive away.
When asked for licence, I gave it. When asked to step out, I stepped out. Officer read me my rights and then released me on promise to appear. All standard.
I am not saying doing any of those things is reason to be shot. I am saying that doing any of those things causes the situation to escalate, and become volatile enough to become tense and create the potential for a tragedy.
The short, not politically correct but unfortunately truthful answer to your question is that we don't have many African Americans, or rather those of african descent with similar cultural attitude of African Americans.
We don't have the class of people that you have who are raised in victimhood dogma, belligerent towards authority, resistant to police orders and chronically in violation of local and federal laws. When people here are arrested or approached, they are cooperative and compliant.
Every time I see or hear about the American episodes, I remember when I was pulled over and charged for driving dangerously (too fast for speeding ticket). The reason nothing crazy happened, was because I did not act like any of the 'victims' recently highlighted in your nation. In other words I did not:
- swear at officer
- lie, make excuses
- refuse orders
- charge the policeman
- assault the policeman
- try to grab policeman's gun
- try to run away or drive away.
When asked for licence, I gave it. When asked to step out, I stepped out. Officer read me my rights and then released me on promise to appear. All standard.
I am not saying doing any of those things is reason to be shot. I am saying that doing any of those things causes the situation to escalate, and become volatile enough to become tense and create the potential for a tragedy.
18
Why do we seem to be opposed to learning from other countries?
I think it's because too many people, citizens and politicians, are addicted to American Exceptionalism. They seem to take it as an insult to the country to even consider such things from "those socialist" counties. Of course, a big element of this is just pure xenophobia and b.s., but too many people believe it.
I think it's because too many people, citizens and politicians, are addicted to American Exceptionalism. They seem to take it as an insult to the country to even consider such things from "those socialist" counties. Of course, a big element of this is just pure xenophobia and b.s., but too many people believe it.
18
How many times in the past have police been given the benefit of the doubt simply because they were the ones with badges and uniforms? This is not new behavior. Much of it is ingrained. And how many innocent human beings have been wronged because of it?
226
our Supreme Court with those 5 conservative justices have an extremist law and order mentality. They still give the cops the benefit of the doubt, just read their published opinions. In Ohio as well as many states, local gov'ts and their police departments have almost total immunity from lawsuits whenever a cop(s) act negligently. Laws written by Republican legislatures and signed by Republican Governors allow these municipalities to walk away scott-free. When it comes down to ultimate responsibility , its the voters who vote in these pols, and our President and Senate for appointing and confirming these right wing justices.
8
The Innocence Projects adopted by a few law schools have found many of the black men sentenced to life without parole or death were convicted based on false testimony, planted evidence, etc. by the police.
8
Please keep in mind that the problem is not just with individuals! It is systemic within entire departments and into the Prosecutors Office. They circle the wagons and cover up the facts,and, the innocent pay the price!
235
It is a collusion. The prosecutor needs the police, so they really can't go after them. We need to change this system.
1
You forgot the Judges.
The executive director of the FOP says, “Every time I think maybe we’re past this and we can start rebuilding, it seems another incident occurs that inflames public outrage." Why in the world are these incidents still happening, especially when police officers *know* that they face intense national scrutiny right now? Why don't they stop? Why can't they stop?
137
You'd think people - cops are people too - act rationally, but they often don't. People addicted to abusing power often keep doing so until they are actually caught red-handed and punished accordingly. There's always that thought of "maybe I can get away with this", no different from a criminal's mindset.
9
Why should they stop when they've gotten away with this for years and have always been protected?
8
A perfect example of this addiction to power is disgraced Chicago detective Jon Burge. ..https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Burge
He got away with thirty-plus years of beating confessions out of innocent men and the guilty because the city adminstration cared only that he closed cases. (As well, suburban whites thought inner-city blacks deserved to be treated like animals.) The more he got away with, the more untouchable he felt.
He got away with thirty-plus years of beating confessions out of innocent men and the guilty because the city adminstration cared only that he closed cases. (As well, suburban whites thought inner-city blacks deserved to be treated like animals.) The more he got away with, the more untouchable he felt.
6
Anyone carrying a gun, police or civilian, should have to wear a body camera. If you get caught with a gun but no camera, you go to prison.
131
a gun is a gun is a gun.
1
yes. i love you!
2
Require guns to have cameras right on them.
5
What's interesting to me is the police act the way they do knowing that they're being video taped. To be willing to shoot and kill someone while being video taped just goes to show how badly trained these people are. They think it's okay.
346
That's not bad training. It's centuries-worth of arrogance; of a police culture rotten with the assurance it's unassailable and will never be held accountable.
20
I wondered that myself. I think it's one of those things where they've been wearing the camera all day and just kind of subconsciously forget it's there. That combined with the fact that under normal circumstances without a camera they know full well that the department will do everything it can to cover up the wrongdoing by the cop. Even after all that you will still have the talking heads, retired cops etc. talking about how the victim deserved it.
9
Eh, I don't think they think "it's okay". If that were the case, the cop in Cincinnati wouldn't have made up an excuse as to why he killed the victim. It's all instinct and sometimes they have really bad instincts, which they should be held accountable for.
6
I wonder what cameras could reveal about bias in policing in general. Up to now, studies of racial profiling have involved statistics for stops and arrests. It is reasonable to suppose that video would find bias patterns in interactions in multiple ways, including police overreaction and escalation of situations.
My hope is that video will be wrapped back into training so that officers come to see the subtle but pervasive biases, and that officers so trained (and monitored on the job) could become better police. Like all of us, police have all sorts of biases, and like most of us they usually do a good job. Video might help to push a few people into their better selves, and to remove those officers unfit for duty.
My hope is that video will be wrapped back into training so that officers come to see the subtle but pervasive biases, and that officers so trained (and monitored on the job) could become better police. Like all of us, police have all sorts of biases, and like most of us they usually do a good job. Video might help to push a few people into their better selves, and to remove those officers unfit for duty.
46
That could lead to a huge leap forward for civil rights since (it seems to me) police are the primary way that most people have to contend with governmental authority on a day-to-day basis.
I wonder...and hope too but it becomes more evident everyday with each deadly traffic stop. Something is pervasively wrong with the police. With many of these killings the LEO lies so quickly that it is as natural as breathing. Then the partner or back-up arrive and perpetuate the lie.No stories are compared it is done without words more of a knowing than a cospiracy. What is most shocking this time is that he was wearing a body camera and was quite comfortable murdering an unarmed man on video, that is confidence in the fact that the word of three LEO can overcome video evidence. Most of the time it does and I suspect if it wasn't a Campus LEO involved it probably would be enough to not be charged. This is a start though and I think they should be required to pay malpractice type insurance so there would be accountability. We could call it bad behavior insurance. If all of the murders we've witnessed are only a few insurance should be cheap with 800,000 officers. That way tax payers aren't paying for police killings and brutality.
12
"We could call it bad behavior insurance."
How about "official misconduct" insurance?
How about "official misconduct" insurance?
2
The narrative is advanced and reinforced by institutions with, among other things, a bevy of statistics that I call the ‘black degeneracy stats’ (BDS). A particularly odious BDS: “Blacks commit 50% of the murders”.
I’ve seen this BDS bandied about in various well-respected publications. It’s typically trotted out to blunt calls for punishment for those who murder black innocents by implying that to kill a black person is a rational act given how murderous blacks themselves are. But as with the other racist swill vomited up by this sick society, there’s a logical problem.
The only thing this BDS quantifies is that of the population of MURDERERS, 50% are BLACK’. It provides ZERO insight into the probability of a random black person committing murder. To do this, the BDS would need to answer the following: ‘of the people who are BLACK, what percentage are MURDERERS?’ The answer by the way is: less than .01%.
My first encounter with this BDS as implied rationale for murdering blacks was in a Time article about regarding Treyvon Martin. Seeing it there drove home just how far American institutions will go to avoid atonement for the original sin.