To import or to deport is the question? For the West, the answer is clear. Deportation/repatriation of non Western peoples is necessary to preserve Western Civilization. In fact, the reason the alien (others) wish to invade the West is because there exists no other legitimate modern civilization. The shopworn notion the West has some sort of moral duty to save the rest of humanity will surely bring down the West. It's only a matter of time - unless immigration policy is abruptly reversed. But everyone already knows this..
6
This is all very pretty with all the protection of human rights but a person traveling in Europe and seeing what is happening is with a less rosy view and more black and white view of things.
A few days ago I wasin Italy, I saw a lot refugees in Italy is disturbing tourist areas addressing ods aggressively tourists trying to extort money by force.
The tourist areas in Italy has at this time large police force, including military controling the most crowed ares.
Few children and women is seen and a lot of many strong and healthy young refugees to wander around the cities.
I will not now say that they are all war refugees, as many are economic refugees.
If England do not control the refugee problem, the English people will have the same scenario of Italy in London, disrupting tourism and residents.
A few days ago I wasin Italy, I saw a lot refugees in Italy is disturbing tourist areas addressing ods aggressively tourists trying to extort money by force.
The tourist areas in Italy has at this time large police force, including military controling the most crowed ares.
Few children and women is seen and a lot of many strong and healthy young refugees to wander around the cities.
I will not now say that they are all war refugees, as many are economic refugees.
If England do not control the refugee problem, the English people will have the same scenario of Italy in London, disrupting tourism and residents.
8
UK Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to throw more illegal migrants out of Britain as a deterrent, blaming the Calais crisis on “a swarm of people” trying to escape north Africa in an attempt to come to the UK.
More migrants continued their attempts to reach Britain from Calais via the Channel tunnel over Wednesday night and into the early hours of Thursday morning, a day after a man was crushed to death under a truck.
Cameron vowed to do more to protect Britain’s borders. He said: “We have to deal with the problem at source and that is stopping so many people from traveling across the Mediterranean in search of a better life. That means trying to stabilize the countries from which they come, it also means breaking the link between traveling and getting the right to stay in Europe.
“This is very testing, I accept that, because you have got a swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean seeking a better life, wanting to come to Britain because Britain has got jobs, it’s got a growing economy, it’s an incredible place to live. But we need to protect our borders by working hand in glove with our neighbors, the French, and that is exactly what we are doing.”
Wow. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump.
There have been calls from MPs and tabloid newspapers for the British army to be deployed to tackle the crisis, but the home secretary, Theresa May, has said the priority is to install security fencing.
More migrants continued their attempts to reach Britain from Calais via the Channel tunnel over Wednesday night and into the early hours of Thursday morning, a day after a man was crushed to death under a truck.
Cameron vowed to do more to protect Britain’s borders. He said: “We have to deal with the problem at source and that is stopping so many people from traveling across the Mediterranean in search of a better life. That means trying to stabilize the countries from which they come, it also means breaking the link between traveling and getting the right to stay in Europe.
“This is very testing, I accept that, because you have got a swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean seeking a better life, wanting to come to Britain because Britain has got jobs, it’s got a growing economy, it’s an incredible place to live. But we need to protect our borders by working hand in glove with our neighbors, the French, and that is exactly what we are doing.”
Wow. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump.
There have been calls from MPs and tabloid newspapers for the British army to be deployed to tackle the crisis, but the home secretary, Theresa May, has said the priority is to install security fencing.
1
Unfortunately, Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity in the past decade or two. As a result, when a major problem such as illegal immigration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it.
Europe, largely insulated from reality by an American defense shield, has for too long looked inward. While busily developing its national social safety nets, it has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place.
One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened a post-W. W. II generation of European leaders to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. Unfortunately such did not occur. The Russian takeover of the Crimea and its aggression in the Ukraine highlighted Europe's weakness, but simultaneously presented it with an opportunity to reset its institutional switches. So far, there is little evidence of that occurring, instead right-wing nationalism providing a vision to fill the vacuum left by the advocates of greater European integration.
As to mass illegal immigration, the best thing Europe can do for humanity is not to simply admit everyone but, rather, to maintain itself as a place people want to escape to. Asians do not look to flee to China. Arabs do not flee to Saudi Arabia. Africans do not flee to Nigeria. Such is not coincidental.
Ditto for the United States.
Europe, largely insulated from reality by an American defense shield, has for too long looked inward. While busily developing its national social safety nets, it has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place.
One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened a post-W. W. II generation of European leaders to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. Unfortunately such did not occur. The Russian takeover of the Crimea and its aggression in the Ukraine highlighted Europe's weakness, but simultaneously presented it with an opportunity to reset its institutional switches. So far, there is little evidence of that occurring, instead right-wing nationalism providing a vision to fill the vacuum left by the advocates of greater European integration.
As to mass illegal immigration, the best thing Europe can do for humanity is not to simply admit everyone but, rather, to maintain itself as a place people want to escape to. Asians do not look to flee to China. Arabs do not flee to Saudi Arabia. Africans do not flee to Nigeria. Such is not coincidental.
Ditto for the United States.
2
These Middle East and African migrants must have very strong motivations for such perilous journeys; and intelligent enough to find the large amounts to pay their smugglers.
To stop such migrations, the root causes need to be identified and eliminated.
A NYT article, http://nyti.ms/1bmayE6, identified chronic wars in their countries of origin. Conflicts induce corrupt governance, national instability and chronic poverty which are prevalent in all long-term war zones.
But the second very important factor is the worldwide digital technologies usage by which the migrants possess adequate knowledge of the better socio-economic conditions in 'wars-absent' Western Europe: hence their journeys. Before advents of World Wide Web and common-place cell telephones usage, war victims would be restricted to their war-laden localities: but no more.
Current campaigns amongst European politicians to simply repatriate the migrants back to their war-defaced countries ignore the above realities. Even if successfully repatriated, more migrants will simply return.
Widespread digital technologies usage, www, internet, social media and TV news pervasion are irrevocable; but they also are the vital tools to obtain permanent prevention of wars. And the prevention will stop the frequent sorry mass migrations into Europe.
National politicians and their advisers should rather spend their thinking time resourcefully on how to discover the now-very-feasible permanent solution to wars, worldwide.
To stop such migrations, the root causes need to be identified and eliminated.
A NYT article, http://nyti.ms/1bmayE6, identified chronic wars in their countries of origin. Conflicts induce corrupt governance, national instability and chronic poverty which are prevalent in all long-term war zones.
But the second very important factor is the worldwide digital technologies usage by which the migrants possess adequate knowledge of the better socio-economic conditions in 'wars-absent' Western Europe: hence their journeys. Before advents of World Wide Web and common-place cell telephones usage, war victims would be restricted to their war-laden localities: but no more.
Current campaigns amongst European politicians to simply repatriate the migrants back to their war-defaced countries ignore the above realities. Even if successfully repatriated, more migrants will simply return.
Widespread digital technologies usage, www, internet, social media and TV news pervasion are irrevocable; but they also are the vital tools to obtain permanent prevention of wars. And the prevention will stop the frequent sorry mass migrations into Europe.
National politicians and their advisers should rather spend their thinking time resourcefully on how to discover the now-very-feasible permanent solution to wars, worldwide.
The prosperity of the world lies in the prosperity of all people giving a fair chance for everyone but this is not true in the developed World is just a myth in the developing world is almost impossible solutions To global poverty is the free reform maketplace Happy Sustainability 2015
I keep seeing parallels with the drug trade.Just as the market in the US drives the flow of illegally imported drugs, work drives migration. If employers did not employ those without legal permission to work, here in the US and in Europe, I think the flow would greatly diminish. If the grapevine tells you that work is available and your family is in penury, you will try.
3
So what did we learn? I guess we now know that you never colonize a continent without also providing universal education to all the children, regardless of race, gender, religon etc. etc. Oh well, i guess it's too late to turn the clock back and our negligence and irresponsibility has come back to roost. Africa's population has grown from 110m in 1850 to 1 billion today (Economist). Each African woman is having an average of five children. Just like the whole planet, Africa isn't getting any bigger, its farmable land is shrinking, and its resources are being abused and depleted at an alarming rate. The best and only way to solve this problem? Universal secular education for girls and boys in Africa. Too expensive? Then stop complaining about the cost of not taking responsibility for our colonisations it when it shows up at our doorstep.
4
I have just contacted my local community college's Adult Basic Education dept. to find out what I need to do to become a "tutor" for new immigrants to the U.S. learn English, American history and citizenship and immigration law. Thank you, Mssrs. Castle and Breeden.
The Allies in WWII were called "accessories" to the Holocaust for not bombing rail lines leading to The Camps. Why then, do the USA and Europe still, today, allow arms manufacturers to supply countless bloodthirsty genocidal regimes with free weaponry?
Fly the drones, destroy the factories, shut down their circus of horror. Am I missing something?
Fly the drones, destroy the factories, shut down their circus of horror. Am I missing something?
1
@PK Lincoln
Why bring up WWII? --Let's leave the "Holocaust" out of this.
Why bring up WWII? --Let's leave the "Holocaust" out of this.
1
And of course as all this is going on, China is doing deals with all of these countries to strip out their natural resources in exchange for building a few highways. The human resources get shipped to the West, the natural resources to the East. Another fine mess we've gotten ourselves into, Ollie.
6
France and England built the channel-tunnel at great cost to save time and transport costs between France and England. It really worked well for a while.
Then, when people believe they can help themselves at no cost, to all that England has, they dare truckers and RR's to stop them. With no effective barriers to stop them, this aptly labelled swarm rushes the tunnel and trucks.
When trucks must wait in miles-long lines to enter the tunnel, there may as well be no tunnel at all. The cost to Britain and continental shippers of no tunnel is something which illegal transients should not be able to impose.
Here in Portland, trespassers dangle from bridges to stop selected traffic from using a national waterway. And the city sits on its thumb.
Then, when people believe they can help themselves at no cost, to all that England has, they dare truckers and RR's to stop them. With no effective barriers to stop them, this aptly labelled swarm rushes the tunnel and trucks.
When trucks must wait in miles-long lines to enter the tunnel, there may as well be no tunnel at all. The cost to Britain and continental shippers of no tunnel is something which illegal transients should not be able to impose.
Here in Portland, trespassers dangle from bridges to stop selected traffic from using a national waterway. And the city sits on its thumb.
5
Anti illegal immigrant fervor will lead people to do nasty things here in the future. I hate to say it, but the natives in these countries do have a point.
5
In case you didn't already know, the Times believes that all of these illegal immigrants should be sheltered, clothed, fed and provided cushy jobs upon stepping foot in their "new" countries. Never mind the people already living in these countries and the strain on their government and services, because Europe is white and the illegal immigrants are not, the Times seeks to impose this duty on Europe. This article is also incredibly biased (as are all of the liberal media's reporting on this issue) in that it says the only reason these people are so desperate to get to England is "to work." Um, no. These migrants have said in interviews repeatedly that England offers the best asylum benefits ie free housing, free food, free clothing etc. Yet the Times always neglects to mention that inconvenient fact. Further, why does the media completely ignore and silence the people in the countries being invaded? Is it because they overwhelmingly hold "inconvenient" ideas about protecting their borders and culture?
9
Oddly enough, this is what many Europhobic Brits cranked about when the Chunnel was being planned. Many--myself included--scoffed at the claims of fear of rampant border-crossing. And yet now it comes to pass...
Who ever anticipated the sorry state of affairs outside Europe (but largely caused by Europe and the US!) that would push people to the edge of the tunnel?
That said, I'm not sure why it's so hard to secure a tunnel crossing? (It's not like some long, complex border with all sorts of dark spots and crannies.) I wish the media would devote some time to explaining that more, in the interests of public information
Who ever anticipated the sorry state of affairs outside Europe (but largely caused by Europe and the US!) that would push people to the edge of the tunnel?
That said, I'm not sure why it's so hard to secure a tunnel crossing? (It's not like some long, complex border with all sorts of dark spots and crannies.) I wish the media would devote some time to explaining that more, in the interests of public information
13
1) you need a passport
2) you need the fare (last time I used it I believe it was $130 US)
2) you need the fare (last time I used it I believe it was $130 US)
1
Illegal aliens waiting in Calais have started many riots, have attacked people in cars and trucks waiting to drive through the Chunnel and have attacked police, all because they already refuse to follow the law. They could stay in France, but they demand to be let into the UK. In short, they demand to live not in the West, but in the Western country of choice. The illegal aliens being hosted by Italy recently rioted because they didn't have free wi-fi for the smartphones they brought with them from their home countries. Persecution indeed.
14
Sounds like the Anerican border crisis with Mexico. It is highly unlikely that the asylum seekers crossing the tunnel to free themselves from so-called persecution, will find the perpetual happiness they seek or fulfill their laundry list of entitlement expectations, and run the risk of falling prey to traffickers or terrorists. In the interest of national security, we have to ask ourselves the hard question about preserving the framework of our nations' values. Why do these migrants not attempt to overthrow the tyrannical oppressors in their own nation if they truly value freedom like the American colonists did? They possess the same tools and seeds of change as anybody else. Their own histories speak to overcoming obstacles and setbacks --- Britain, like America, can no longer afford to be naïve about migratory intentions.
11
So long as we're clear here that preserving US culture means a different thing from preserving French or British culture. The French and British are each somewhat homogeneous within themselves, with pretty specific traditions. Our culture is not white and uptight, nor 'y'all come'; it should be carefully chosen legal immigrants from all over the world who want to blend with others here to make a better, freer, more innovative and open-minded whole [IMHO].
2
"The Grapes of Wrath" was shown on cable TV a few days ago and reminds us of many desperate Okies fleeing the Dust Bowl being denied "admission" to California.
1
Seems the planet in many regions is over grazed. People are leaving for opportunity for living, sometimes better living but others for fear of imminent extinction. Take Iran, Friedman recently wrote that they face major water shortage which will lead to out migration. Syria, life or death is a good reason to flee. In Africa, well, so very many reasons to leave, so few to stay.
Where to go? The answer is on the wind.
Where to go? The answer is on the wind.
1
As a legal migrant to Britain, I have endured quite a lot unwarranted, unpleasant, unnecessary and time-inefficient obstacles during the migration process, despite the fact that many legal migrants like me are not entitled to public funds. I can only imagine what these 'migrants'( yes, lets not call them refugees), will endure. No, they shouldn't come here, because they are not welcome here and will likely never be. It's very clear that they will be unwanted guests in this first-rate, first-world nation of warmongers and apathetic hypocrites. I hope they stop coming here or that they are sent back with contraception or whatever is identified as the problem by the committee of disconnected experts in their insulated chambers of homeland insecurity.
I hope I get to leave here too. I am afraid I'd become like the rest of them.
I hope I get to leave here too. I am afraid I'd become like the rest of them.
4
I don't understand why these people are so desperate to get to Britain. What's wrong with France?
6
No jobs in France.
Forget the UK. Come to San Francisco. You get welfare and a gun. AND you are exempt from all responsibility for your actions.
11
Yes, and Kansas City is the locale where the hotel supervisor hung a black doll by the neck with a plastic bag in the employee break room. Another spot not to visit.
france doesn't have the free stuff that the UK hands out
4
Lots of causes, but here is the root one: Too many people. (Also the cause of killing our fisheries, not enough water, general overcrowding, killing wildlife and forests, etc.)
Our entire earth is now the boiling frog, slowly dying.
How about this: Let the mostly male migrants in with a caveat: vasectomy. Not only would that stop that individual from further breeding, but these poorly educated, fundamentalist types will climb all over each other to get back to their home nations.
Our entire earth is now the boiling frog, slowly dying.
How about this: Let the mostly male migrants in with a caveat: vasectomy. Not only would that stop that individual from further breeding, but these poorly educated, fundamentalist types will climb all over each other to get back to their home nations.
18
Many Britons put the blame on France's inability to handle the migration crisis. They say the French ought to vet the people who are all massed at Calais to find out whether they are genuine refugees who the French should grant asylum, or they are economic migrants who need to be deporting.
What sickens me is that those who benefit from human trafficking, are watching the crisis with indifference. They don't care what a mess they have created - for the illegal migrants and the countries they have fled to!
What sickens me is that those who benefit from human trafficking, are watching the crisis with indifference. They don't care what a mess they have created - for the illegal migrants and the countries they have fled to!
14
@ j. von hettlingen, switzerland
Precisely. This has been my contention all along. It is the human traffickers who are at the root of the problem. And because this has become such a highly lucrative business, they are loathe to stop.
Want to solve this problem? -- Shut down the traffickers!
Precisely. This has been my contention all along. It is the human traffickers who are at the root of the problem. And because this has become such a highly lucrative business, they are loathe to stop.
Want to solve this problem? -- Shut down the traffickers!
3
Picture a similar situation here. Hundreds of thousand camped in Northern Mexico start to stream across the border at once. What will the Border Patrol do? They stream into the border states committing crimes against people and property and eventually move northward. What will be the citizen's response?
You know what it will be. We will protect ourselves whether the government gives permission or not. The ensuing chaos will be unstoppable as people turn on the government that will not protect them.
You know what it will be. We will protect ourselves whether the government gives permission or not. The ensuing chaos will be unstoppable as people turn on the government that will not protect them.
12
Bet i can guess whom you want for President.
1
I'll bet you can't.
4
These people are destroying Europe as we know it, threaten tourists and locals. The EU must together make a strong contention in the Mediterranean and deport to Africa anyone who is not war refugee but only economic refugee.
9
@Jon Davis, NM
Oh please. Don't go there. Let's keep it current and on point. There's enough to discuss already with THIS problem.
Oh please. Don't go there. Let's keep it current and on point. There's enough to discuss already with THIS problem.
This is a complicated situation
Anyone claiming asylum Must do so at the first safe haven
As these people have travelled through many such countries they are not true asylum seekers but purely economic migrants
They should be returned to the point of entry into Europe and processed there
Whilst I have every sympathy with real asylum seekers I have little for people just seeking to circumvent immigration laws
Anyone claiming asylum Must do so at the first safe haven
As these people have travelled through many such countries they are not true asylum seekers but purely economic migrants
They should be returned to the point of entry into Europe and processed there
Whilst I have every sympathy with real asylum seekers I have little for people just seeking to circumvent immigration laws
11
They are called refugees from terrorism but take a closer look at those photos. At least 90% are men.
Where are the pitiful women and children? Have they been abandoned by their menfolk or are these men simply without families?
And if they are seeking safety from terrorism why aren't they safe in Italy or France? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK?
Could it be the attraction of the UK welfare system where they can get paid some $30,000 a year while unemployed?
The UK needs to change its definition of refugees and send them back. Preferably to where they came from. Let them protect their families there and fight for their own countries.
And the French and Italians should do the same.
Intercept the smuggling boats. Turn them around. Arrest the crew and confiscate the boats. That would stop this in a hurry.
Where are the pitiful women and children? Have they been abandoned by their menfolk or are these men simply without families?
And if they are seeking safety from terrorism why aren't they safe in Italy or France? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK?
Could it be the attraction of the UK welfare system where they can get paid some $30,000 a year while unemployed?
The UK needs to change its definition of refugees and send them back. Preferably to where they came from. Let them protect their families there and fight for their own countries.
And the French and Italians should do the same.
Intercept the smuggling boats. Turn them around. Arrest the crew and confiscate the boats. That would stop this in a hurry.
25
These guys are too young and poor to have wives, probably sisters and moms though.
Truly, this is a problem that's not going to go away. As long as we in the US and Europe bury our collective brains in prime-time network television run by a few powerful men, and allow them to slowly, insidiously shape our thought processes, so they can own even more of our souls, the desperation of the rest of the world will continue unabatedand largely unnoticed.
The chaos and poverty inducing wars forced upon millions of people around the globe (mainly by the American and European war machine and its untouchable Cheney-esque criminals and their unending gluttonous self serving quest for oil, oil and more oil) is the root cause of these mass migrations.
Europe, Australia and North America seeks to democratize the rest of the world by force. However, the world is much more connected and aware today, and no longer can we stay immune to the cascade of consequences that we unleash. Just like particles in a more concentrated solutions will cross semi-permeable borders to achieve a steady state, so will people. The question is not if it will happen, but when...
The chaos and poverty inducing wars forced upon millions of people around the globe (mainly by the American and European war machine and its untouchable Cheney-esque criminals and their unending gluttonous self serving quest for oil, oil and more oil) is the root cause of these mass migrations.
Europe, Australia and North America seeks to democratize the rest of the world by force. However, the world is much more connected and aware today, and no longer can we stay immune to the cascade of consequences that we unleash. Just like particles in a more concentrated solutions will cross semi-permeable borders to achieve a steady state, so will people. The question is not if it will happen, but when...
10
Simple solution: the French police and, if necessary, the French Army, need to clean out the refugee settlements near Calais and send all the inhabitants back to their countries of origin Yes, they seek a better life. But it should not be at the expense of the First World. We are the lifeboat about to be swamped by economic (and climate change) refugees. We need to harden our hearts to preserve our own economies and civilization...a hard truth of the 21st century.
17
The East Germans used to shoot anyone trying to escape from their country. A lot of people complained, but apparently they had every legal right to do so. Israeli soldiers regularly shoot any Palestinian too close to their borders, and have much of the border land mined. A lot of people complain about that too, but it seems perfectly legal. So just why is it that troops can't be used to stop invaders in Europe? Why isn't it perfectly legal for the British to simply gun down anyone attempting to board a train or truck? And why are the French obligated to let them in at all?
7
Shooting people is always the best answer.
You should apply to become a cop.
In the U.S. cops can shoot anyone they wish, and usually with impunity if it's a minority person.
You should apply to become a cop.
In the U.S. cops can shoot anyone they wish, and usually with impunity if it's a minority person.
1
Wow! What an amazing number of haters are out there! Wonder what country your people immigrated from and why ( let's go back a few generations), whose land was stolen and given to them for free - and not to mention the devastating effects of european colonization, slavery, and and political manipulations in the interest of protecting big biz around the world.
That said, humans have always migrated since the beginning of our species. That is how we come to be dispersed around the globe.
Let's work on some creative and humane ways to handle our global plight without devolving into xenophobic, them vs. us, haters.
we all share the same home-planet Earth.
That said, humans have always migrated since the beginning of our species. That is how we come to be dispersed around the globe.
Let's work on some creative and humane ways to handle our global plight without devolving into xenophobic, them vs. us, haters.
we all share the same home-planet Earth.
7
If you are looking for the new movie, "Empathetic in Seattle" (or America), you aren't going to find it anywhere. Americans are all about their bank accounts...and nothing else. Jesus said it was easier to ride a camel into heaven through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. But according to most Americans, the real Jesus carried a gun to protect himself from Mexicans.
1
And exactly how many political refugees from Africa are you housing in New Mexico, Jon?
3
Unfortunately, Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity in the past decade or two. As a result, when a major problem such as illegal immigration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it.
Europe, largely insulated from reality by an American defense shield, has for too long looked inward. While busily developing its national social safety nets, it has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place.
One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened a post-W. W. II generation of European leaders to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. Unfortunately such did not occur. The Russian takeover of the Crimea and its aggression in the Ukraine highlighted Europe's weakness, but simultaneously presented it with an opportunity to reset its institutional switches. So far, there is little evidence of that occurring, instead right-wing nationalism providing a vision to fill the vacuum left by the advocates of greater European integration.
As to mass illegal immigration, the best thing Europe can do for humanity is not to simply admit everyone but, rather, to maintain itself as a place people want to escape to. Asians do not look to flee to China. Arabs do not flee to Saudi Arabia. Africans do not flee to Nigeria. Such is not coincidental.
Ditto for the United States.
Europe, largely insulated from reality by an American defense shield, has for too long looked inward. While busily developing its national social safety nets, it has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place.
One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened a post-W. W. II generation of European leaders to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. Unfortunately such did not occur. The Russian takeover of the Crimea and its aggression in the Ukraine highlighted Europe's weakness, but simultaneously presented it with an opportunity to reset its institutional switches. So far, there is little evidence of that occurring, instead right-wing nationalism providing a vision to fill the vacuum left by the advocates of greater European integration.
As to mass illegal immigration, the best thing Europe can do for humanity is not to simply admit everyone but, rather, to maintain itself as a place people want to escape to. Asians do not look to flee to China. Arabs do not flee to Saudi Arabia. Africans do not flee to Nigeria. Such is not coincidental.
Ditto for the United States.
9
I want to help, but I'm also afraid of them, all these young men who are desperate. What happens to the women and children?
5
These people should be allowed to cross the channel.
1
Great for you to say living in Tennessee.
How about if they crossed the Atlantic to Tennessee instead and it was YOUR tax dollars that were paying them welfare?
How about if they crossed the Atlantic to Tennessee instead and it was YOUR tax dollars that were paying them welfare?
5
My tax dollars were stolen by politicians who then deposited them in a bank run by and for drug traffickers in Grand Cayman.
These are not law-abiding people who are arriving.
14
These are not refugees. Real refugees are lawful and apply to enter from outside the country.You also do not get to shop for the country of your choice based on what taxpayer benefits you expect to get. Being poor also does not qualify you for asylum and a job in another country. True asylum seekers are suppose to go to the first safe country. Not pay thousands to smugglers to head in boats for Europe and then enter the UK illegally.
33
Nope, ISIS is driving GM Humvees donated by the USA. As planned in Davos in 2000. These are refugees from ISraels war with Palestine that no one but them and the USA support, because the entire region and now Western Europe too was destabilized by Bush, Cheney et al for 12 trillion in war profits. The EU should call a meeting at the Haugue and set a date to try these war criminals for their war crimes. Hang them up high on TV for the entire world to see. And then beat their dead bodies with sticks.
2
This is the best comment I have read! You are spot on--we have some supposed "refugees" from Somalia being given all of their free stuff here in Chattanooga--housing, food, phone, medical care, etc. One man was "given" an apartment in a public housing building downtown. He did not speak English and no one "acquainted" him with how to use modern facilities. He first set his kitchen on fire and then he defecated in the building's elevator. Needless to say, his neighbors were horrified and he had to be moved somewhere where he could be watched 24/7--great use of our tax dollars!
11
1. Your definition of "real refugees" is clearly the ignorant view of a person that never has experienced any essential threat to life (eg hunger)
2. there's no legal option to apply for asylum in UK for a Syrian refugee (Embassy closed).
3. taxpayer benefits might be your primary concerns - if the refugees would care about that they would try to go to Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Netherlands...or whereever else amazon goes for tax avoidance
2. there's no legal option to apply for asylum in UK for a Syrian refugee (Embassy closed).
3. taxpayer benefits might be your primary concerns - if the refugees would care about that they would try to go to Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Netherlands...or whereever else amazon goes for tax avoidance
2
Part of this problem goes back to World War II. Before World War II, many European nations had strict regulations about immigration and did not allow immigrants to ask for political asylum. We all know what happened to millions of "undesirables" during World War II. So after the war, many European nations instituted very liberal regulations for anyone claiming political asylum. Unfortunately, today's immigrants are playing this generous policy for personal gain--they are only crossing borders for their economic self-interest yet will claim they are politically persecuted when they're not. Part of the solution is for Britain and other European nations to revise their political asylum statutes--and to institute a national ID card (the US needs one too).
16
Or we could just take down the fake borders and call the place Earth and make the policy Sharing and Abundance for all. Make the robots work harder.
2
You first, anononandon. Rip the front door off your house or apartment and invite anyone and everyone to shack up in your living room, free of charge.
You-topia does not take our tribal mentality into account.
So it begins. What we were always warned about overpopulation: lack of food, lack of water, lack of social service, lack of jobs and war between factions trying to secure the remaining resources. How are we going to create 3.7 billion new jobs by 2050 to feed everyone? That's 100 million jobs a year... even China at the 90s' with 10+% economic growth don't come close.
26
Why do we have to work for food? We could just give away the food the robots will be making us in giant solar powered led farm towers? Amazon will be droning your energy goop to you so your 3D printer can cook up some tasty whatever you want. Work would be for fun. Its called Technocracy. Look it up.
I am the guy who screams OVERPOPULATION at the "ProLife" folks. They won`t listen. They like suffering. It fills up their churches.
I am the guy who screams OVERPOPULATION at the "ProLife" folks. They won`t listen. They like suffering. It fills up their churches.
3
The chickens have come home to roost.
3
This is a result of globalization, where a few billionaires are ending up with all the money and power and gaming the system to their exclusive benefit. The result in the US is the decimation of the middle class, the result in less developed countries is horrific warfare as a result of the west supporting this unjust economic system, starvation and death of millions. Make the 1%ers pay for it. This whole doomday scenario has been well covered in SF literature. Life follows art.
21
These episodes of mass migrations from the Middle East and Africa Africa are sad.
Many of the migrants seem intelligent and motivated enough to be able to find the large amounts to pay their smugglers.
The root causes which induce people to undertake such perilous journeys need to be identified and eliminated.
A NYT article, http://nyti.ms/1bmayE6, identified wars as a root cause.
Chronic wars induce corrupt governance, national instability and chronic poverty. These ills are prevalent in all long-term war zones -the migrants' origin.
But due to the the worldwide digital technology revolution, the migrants also possess adequate knowledge of the better socio-economic conditions in Europe: hence their journeys.
Before the World Wide Web and the current common-place cell telephones usage, victims of war were usually restricted to their war-ridden localities; but no more.
Current campaigns amongst European politicians to simply repatriate the migrants back to their war-laden countries ignore the above realities. Even if the repatriations are successful, more migrants will simply return.
Since widespread use of digital technologies tools are irrevocable, a permanent solution to the traditional problem war is what is required to solve these sorry mass migrations into Europe.
National politicians and their advisers should spend time, resourcefully, on finding a long-term solution to wars.
Many of the migrants seem intelligent and motivated enough to be able to find the large amounts to pay their smugglers.
The root causes which induce people to undertake such perilous journeys need to be identified and eliminated.
A NYT article, http://nyti.ms/1bmayE6, identified wars as a root cause.
Chronic wars induce corrupt governance, national instability and chronic poverty. These ills are prevalent in all long-term war zones -the migrants' origin.
But due to the the worldwide digital technology revolution, the migrants also possess adequate knowledge of the better socio-economic conditions in Europe: hence their journeys.
Before the World Wide Web and the current common-place cell telephones usage, victims of war were usually restricted to their war-ridden localities; but no more.
Current campaigns amongst European politicians to simply repatriate the migrants back to their war-laden countries ignore the above realities. Even if the repatriations are successful, more migrants will simply return.
Since widespread use of digital technologies tools are irrevocable, a permanent solution to the traditional problem war is what is required to solve these sorry mass migrations into Europe.
National politicians and their advisers should spend time, resourcefully, on finding a long-term solution to wars.
2
They did. Its called Population Reduction. It happens when you educate women and allow them to have babies when they are ready and have abortions if and when accidents happen.
Over Population leads to increased wars, rape, famine, disease. The technology exists to provide food, water and housing to many more billions of humans.
What we all need is more scientifically and engineering informed political leadership and less corporate greed mucking the ethics.
Google: Technocracy.
Over Population leads to increased wars, rape, famine, disease. The technology exists to provide food, water and housing to many more billions of humans.
What we all need is more scientifically and engineering informed political leadership and less corporate greed mucking the ethics.
Google: Technocracy.
6
"Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."--Carl Sagan: Pale Blue Dot
15
"We share this earth collectively. No one can claim the right to exclude others from any territory. Mass migration has happened throughout time. What's mine is your's."
vs.
common sense.
vs.
common sense.
15
What we are seeing is that problems in a far off nation can and do effect nations and peoples thousands of miles away. Refugees are no longer limited to someplace they can walk to, they are a world-wide problem. Those here, who are talking about stabilizing war & famine zones, are opening the door to a much larger issue. In order to control the refugee problem that is swamping countries around the world, we would have to take away the power of self government from countries in war zones in order to end the wars which are creating refugees. We would also have to take over food and water distribution in famine zones since the host country has shown it is not capable of supplying resources to its people. We have the water and food resources to supply the world's people if it were handled efficiently. In order to do all of the above however, we would need a one world government.
I hear the anger and frustration, but is this really the solution you want? Are we even capable of such a thing? Eventually, yes, but now? Yet if we do nothing, the problems will only get worse. This is a very, very large can of worms we are thinking of opening.
I hear the anger and frustration, but is this really the solution you want? Are we even capable of such a thing? Eventually, yes, but now? Yet if we do nothing, the problems will only get worse. This is a very, very large can of worms we are thinking of opening.
3
"One-world government"--there's a collectivist dystopia forged in perdition.
3
We have one. Its called the United Nations.
It should be evident by now that no country can realistically resolve this issue on this scale. Many readers have written plausible alternatives. It's high time elected officials/public servants take heed or at least not get returned to office.
23
I will likely be called a bleeding heart liberal here, but I say, let them in. Educate them and let them assimilate. At the same time Europe and the US should be educating the natives and providing the same benefits. I don't see any other solution without being cruel and having that cruelty revisit us as a society down the line. Looking at the causes of the Middle East debacle rests squarely on the shoulders of the banking cartel, the fossil fuel industry and some other big corporations trying to make hay on water, food and oil. This cartel is representing Americans and Europeans without their consent, because so many have no idea what cruelties their own country is responsible for in these poor immigrant's homelands. We need to suck it up, and do the right thing. And that means doing what the statue of liberty stands for.
10
The problem with that idea is there'll be no jobs for your kids, and huge demand will mean they can't get a house. Further down the line your grand-kids will be in bigger classes - and you know that's bad for them. And then your mother will be on a longer waiting list for treatment at the hospital. Oh, and your taxes will go up and your benefits will go down to pay for it.
13
Carolyn,
Why is the "Right Thing" always to take care of others before family. Yes, we are all related but there is only so much room in our boat too! Perhaps these other countries should do a better job of taking care of their own!
Why is the "Right Thing" always to take care of others before family. Yes, we are all related but there is only so much room in our boat too! Perhaps these other countries should do a better job of taking care of their own!
13
When the Statue of Liberty was built, there were strict quotas on the number and type of immigrants who were let into the country. Many thousands of people at Ellis Island were sent away.
The United States and Europe cannot possibly absorb the entire third world. To suggest we are obligated to do so is PC guilt tripping of the highest order.
The United States and Europe cannot possibly absorb the entire third world. To suggest we are obligated to do so is PC guilt tripping of the highest order.
20
I've heard people say France is a pretty lawless place from American and Asians that have been there but this is ridiculous. Does France not have law enforcement? Can you imagine hundreds of people trying to force their way into a government facility and the police did nothing?
15
The best thing Britain and France can do is kick them out. Let them build up their own country back where they are coming from. I sympathize with the migrants, but both the UK and France are already over populated. Every country on earth has the right to choose who is allowed into their sovereign borders. When they no longer have that right, they cease to direct their on future.
40
The euro-leaders do nothing and talk out of both sides of their mouth. Of course huge swathes of populations in Africa or war torn Muslim countries would want to live in Europe, and take their anti-woman culture and Medieval economy with them. Sorry, they need to fix their own problems.
44
I have to say, assimilation itself is not the issue in the US. There are Amish, Sikhs, Jews, Quakers, Catholic orders and others who don't assimilate, but they don't bother other people, and they certainly don't blow them up or demand a bunch of special accommodations (for the most part). They can deal with stupid cartoons and businesses being open on their special days and the existence of pork food and scantily clad billboard images and birth control availability and what have you.
41
Everyone says that we should help them to achieve a higher standard of living. But it's not we, forcing them to kill each other, or to bear many children which they can't feed.
In the West, we have already suffered enough from immigration from the East.
See Mr. Bush, it is the result of your war against terrorism.
In the West, we have already suffered enough from immigration from the East.
See Mr. Bush, it is the result of your war against terrorism.
17
This exodus is rooted in many causes - over-population, war, corrupt government, lack of economic opportunity. These young men (mostly) may be seeking a better life, but countries have the right to secure their borders. If there is a labor shortage, then legal, regulated guest worker programs should be implemented (are you listening U.S. Congress??). Otherwise, countries have the right to deport these migrants. While some are fleeing war and famine, I suspect the majority are economic migrants. While sympathetic to the plight of these people, you simply cannot expect Europe to open its doors and be swamped with an endless stream of undocumented persons, lacking in relevant skills and education. The economic costs would potentially overwhelm the social welfare systems of these countries, resulting in socioeconomic problems in those countries as well. Nations have the right to maintain their borders, and regulate immigration. If Nations give up this right, they not only jeopardize their economic security, and cultural heritage, they also put at risk the duty and responsibility to provide security against potential terrorist threats for their citizens.
49
"Like other French officials, he suggested that Britain needed to do more to make itself a less appealing destination and to control the migrant flow on its side of the English Channel."
I feel for the Calais officials, but I wonder what they would propose UK do to make UK "less appealing" to the illegals.
I feel for the Calais officials, but I wonder what they would propose UK do to make UK "less appealing" to the illegals.
8
So Britain needs to make itself a less appealing destination? Ship 100 portions of "toad in the hole" to the migrants in Calais, and watch them run.
8
The illegal immigrants want out of France because France gives them nothing and allows them to live in the streets. They hope to get to the UK for better treatment at taxpayer expense. Give out no taxpayer benefits and the UK will become far "less appealing".
7
I do not have any answers but two things do come to mind as I read these comments. First, the USA already has 11-12 million illegal immigrants (yes, illegal as in they are not supposed to be here); and second, the muslim refugees fleeing to Europe seem to want to bring with them their Sharia Law.
41
Sharia law? Where does it say that?
2
The 11 million number you cite was reported by the Pew Hispanic Center as being the number of undocumented aliens in the U.S. in March 2005. TEN YEARS AGO.
7
They are not migrants. They are criminals. As the photos show, 99% are young single, and violent, men. They are not poor - they have paid $5,000 to gangs to bypass border controls. Unless anyone who turns up without a valid visa is immediately deported the problem will only get worse. If Europe provides a free water taxi service it will get much worse. If they are given a free house, free spending money, free healthcare and free education they will keep coming.
The British government should look after Brits - and it should not give their money away to foreigners. Other governments should look after their own nationals. Anything else is a recipe for chaos.
The British government should look after Brits - and it should not give their money away to foreigners. Other governments should look after their own nationals. Anything else is a recipe for chaos.
66
These are from the English speaking "British Empire" so its payback time for colonisation
3
Many of the refugees/economic migrants come from countries that where not part of the British Empire. The ones that do have come from countries that have been independent for over 50 years. The UK over the past 40 to 50 years has had a very generous immigration policy (have you been to London/Birmingham/Manchester recently). Our cities are fantastic places with people from every country on earth living in them, and for the vast majority happily. The UK is not perfect, but we are probably one of the most tolerant societies in the world.
You mention the British Empire, but not the French, German, Italian, US (yes it had, and still does have one), etc... The British are not responsible for all the worlds ills, despite many anti British people who would like to paint a picture that we were.
The UK is also one of the largest overseas aid givers. Giving £11.8 billion!
I don't feel any ill will towards the Italians for the Roman Empires 400 year occupation of Britain, The same goes for the Norwegians and Danes for their Viking occupations. Let it go and move on.
My wife's parents are both from Ireland, and we visit them a lot and enjoy many happy times there.
You mention the British Empire, but not the French, German, Italian, US (yes it had, and still does have one), etc... The British are not responsible for all the worlds ills, despite many anti British people who would like to paint a picture that we were.
The UK is also one of the largest overseas aid givers. Giving £11.8 billion!
I don't feel any ill will towards the Italians for the Roman Empires 400 year occupation of Britain, The same goes for the Norwegians and Danes for their Viking occupations. Let it go and move on.
My wife's parents are both from Ireland, and we visit them a lot and enjoy many happy times there.
What people forget, I think, about immigrants who desperately and energetically try to get to a better life, is that this energy and ambition is good for their destination country. These are the people who make a country great and whose children go on to get educations and on to great and successful things.
In America, these are like our grand parents and parents making a better life for themselves and their children. These children are us and then our thoughtless peers complain about the immigrant problem. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
In America, these are like our grand parents and parents making a better life for themselves and their children. These children are us and then our thoughtless peers complain about the immigrant problem. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
8
Take another look at those pictures. These aren't families fleeing terrorism or despots. They are almost all young MEN trying to leave a perfectly safe country, France, just because it won't give them welfare handouts while the UK will.
1
Hint: The 21st century is not the 19th. No more open lands to settle, no more strong backs needed to lay track and mine the earth. Almost all immigrants came here through a legal process, not by gangs storming the gates.
But now we have the welfare state, whatever it might be in a given situation. And instant world wide communications.
But now we have the welfare state, whatever it might be in a given situation. And instant world wide communications.
According to the Tea Party, the late 18th century in America was a gilded age to which we must return (a physical impossibility), a time when men were men (white men, i.e), women, children and blacks were, or were treated, as pieces of property, and the average life expectancy was 30 years because infectious bacteria had not yet been discovered. Even rich families regularly loss the mother during child birth. In most countries of sub-Saharan Africa TODAY, the average life expectancy is 50 years...or less.
If we or Europe, provide the illegal immigrants a system that is easily manipulated to allow them to come to our countries, get benefits, use our hospitals and schools, and a slow asylum review process we should not be surprised at them arriving in a never-ending stream to our shores.
The answer is to return them to their countries and rid our countries of these "camps." We can't absorb them all and they need to understand that. Perhaps then, they will take up arms against the politicians, groups and extra-national organizations that have ruined their safety and opportunities in their own countries.
The answer is to return them to their countries and rid our countries of these "camps." We can't absorb them all and they need to understand that. Perhaps then, they will take up arms against the politicians, groups and extra-national organizations that have ruined their safety and opportunities in their own countries.
50
Why is everyone so exercised about immigrants getting benefits? I can see why we wouldn't want any illegal immigrants at all, but is it really better if they come here, work hard, abide by the laws, pay taxes, and still take jobs away from native born construction workers, maids, baristas or even lawyers and engineers? We don't need hordes of people any more to make an economy, and any 'hordes' we accept are just extra people we don't need, employed or unemployed.
Like a (few) other readers, I am shocked by the hostility to immigrants expressed in so many (the majority?) of these comments. Especially among US citizens.
Personally, I can't believe that any immigrants would willingly subject themselves to such hostility if they felt they had other choices. The Wesrtern world is reaping the whirlwind of slavery, colonialization, and condescension that have characterized so much of its past history.
Personally, I can't believe that any immigrants would willingly subject themselves to such hostility if they felt they had other choices. The Wesrtern world is reaping the whirlwind of slavery, colonialization, and condescension that have characterized so much of its past history.
11
What you need to imagine is the immigrant - a violent young man - trying to break in to your house, sleep in your child's room, use your car and eat your food. They imagine the police not doing anything about it - simply returning the criminal/migrant to your driveway so he can do it again. Meanwhile, your taxes go up to pay for the ineffective policing and the other additional costs you incur mean you can no longer afford to pay for your mother to have treatment for cancer. That's why some people get upset. But if you really are shocked why not donate $10,000 per year to the Red Cross or Medicines San Frontiers?
5
Your grasp of facts is weak and incorrect.
Judeo-Christian Western civilization is the only civilization that:
(i) has outlawed slavery
(ii) has a feminist movement and full equality for both sexes
(iii) studies other cultures instead of eradicating or outlawing them
(iv) has a legally-protected and thriving gay and lesbian equality movement.
Learn before you type.
Judeo-Christian Western civilization is the only civilization that:
(i) has outlawed slavery
(ii) has a feminist movement and full equality for both sexes
(iii) studies other cultures instead of eradicating or outlawing them
(iv) has a legally-protected and thriving gay and lesbian equality movement.
Learn before you type.
4
"sleep in your child's room"?!?
These people are desperate to work so they can feed their families and send their children to school. They aren't part of your sick and twisted imaginary scenario.
These people are desperate to work so they can feed their families and send their children to school. They aren't part of your sick and twisted imaginary scenario.
1
Finally the developed European countries face a huge horde of folks seeking not just a better life, but any kind of life at all. Not everyone fleeing the mid-east or Africa is searching for religious freedoms. Most are simply hoping for a life where their children can survive, husbands and wives can find work, and a decent and peaceful life can be pursued. And it is not so much freedom to practice an ancient faith, but to simply be free from ethnic and religious persecution and cleansing. By the third generation, these immigrant folk will be indistinguishable from native born Europeans.
4
There is no evidence that individuals from cultures as radically different as those in, e.g., Britain and France will assimilate and be indistinguishable from native born Europeans in three generations. A good case study would be the Somali migration to Minnesota, in which all indications are that only the most minimal level of assimilation has taken place.
1
You obviously not been to the Muslim ghettos around London and Paris. There is no assimilation, only demands that the majority culture change to suit the migrants.
For identification only, officials should consider "spraying" individuals who are seeking to enter The UK illegally through the Chunnel and who are turned away to return later, with a non toxic highly visible permanent ink spray on an area of of each person's body so they can be identified if trying again and possibly detained for repeated attempts.
This is only a stop gap attempt to handle an issue much larger than any individual nation's private concerns.
This is only a stop gap attempt to handle an issue much larger than any individual nation's private concerns.
12
Detaining / deporting abnormally colored people will not stop the attempts of normally colored people. So you identify repeat offenders, but then what? Tell them even more sternly how naughty they are because of that blue streak?
England was historically right to mistrust any land connections to the European continent. The recent events confirm this, even if there is no danger (at least not at present) of another invasion from the South of the Channel.
I find it nonsensical to speak of "the fault" of any European country in the problem of migrants, except of those states that push migrants through to their neighbors. The present Migration of Peoples is a free, even if unavoidable, choice of some to seek better living conditions elsewhere. No one, except for socialist ultra-liberals, whose minds are still poisoned by the anti-imperialist and "white-man's-burden" rhetoric, would place the responsibility for the migrants' plight in their home countries on France, UK, and their neighboring nations.
I find it nonsensical to speak of "the fault" of any European country in the problem of migrants, except of those states that push migrants through to their neighbors. The present Migration of Peoples is a free, even if unavoidable, choice of some to seek better living conditions elsewhere. No one, except for socialist ultra-liberals, whose minds are still poisoned by the anti-imperialist and "white-man's-burden" rhetoric, would place the responsibility for the migrants' plight in their home countries on France, UK, and their neighboring nations.
26
So my initial commentary here was full of rage and wildly overblown, I apologize for that. In my defense, there's a lot of humanity's behavior that naturally provokes rage and overblown responses, I believe.
There must be an answer to this, but gunning these people down, giving them a sandwich and sending them back to Libya, or letting all the millions in, are all not realistic options.
I think what must eventually be done, if we're not going to descend into massive war, chaos, famine, plague, and so on, is that the countries of origin of these people (eg: Libya, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, etc.) must be pacified by a U.N., not U.S., coalition, and governed responsibly. Perhaps redraw the borders of every nation, breaking it into more manageable parts. These peoples' cultures do not need to be destroyed, they do not need to be forced into reasonably planned parenthood, they just need to be provided safe enclaves from eachother. They're very tribal and many are fundamentalists, and such folks will war on other tribes or fundamentalists no matter what.
So I think that's the real answer here, stop the wars going on in the Middle East and Northern Africa, have a huge group effort to rebuild and manage them, and let these people live safely where they came from. I don't know if we can organize enough to do this, but the alternative is pretty much, massive war, chaos, famine, plague, and so on.
There must be an answer to this, but gunning these people down, giving them a sandwich and sending them back to Libya, or letting all the millions in, are all not realistic options.
I think what must eventually be done, if we're not going to descend into massive war, chaos, famine, plague, and so on, is that the countries of origin of these people (eg: Libya, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, etc.) must be pacified by a U.N., not U.S., coalition, and governed responsibly. Perhaps redraw the borders of every nation, breaking it into more manageable parts. These peoples' cultures do not need to be destroyed, they do not need to be forced into reasonably planned parenthood, they just need to be provided safe enclaves from eachother. They're very tribal and many are fundamentalists, and such folks will war on other tribes or fundamentalists no matter what.
So I think that's the real answer here, stop the wars going on in the Middle East and Northern Africa, have a huge group effort to rebuild and manage them, and let these people live safely where they came from. I don't know if we can organize enough to do this, but the alternative is pretty much, massive war, chaos, famine, plague, and so on.
13
Europe and the US are both committing cultural suicide by failing to stop the tidal wave of illegal immigration. Europe has a huge problem with muslims who do not want to assimilate, and both continents have massive unemployment created in large part by illegals willing to work for slave wages. These pressures will only increase as chaos spreads in the Middle East and the combination of population growth, climate change, and corruption continue to destroy Africa and Central America. Wallowing in guilt over ancient colonialism (which created that growth in those countries in the first place) will only make our northern countries similarly unlivable, ungovernable and miserable. We have no responsibility to impoverish our own people and destroy our cultures by allowing ourselves to be inundated by unfortunates who have destroyed their own countries.
The great majority of Europeans and Americans understand this and strongly oppose illegal immigration. Why do the ruling elites continue to ignore and impoverish in favour of invading illegals?
The great majority of Europeans and Americans understand this and strongly oppose illegal immigration. Why do the ruling elites continue to ignore and impoverish in favour of invading illegals?
58
You ask: "Why do the ruling elites continue to ignore and impoverish in favour of invading illegals?"
Answer: invading illegals (cheap labor) is good for the ruling elites. Please note: President Obama and a super majority of the United States Senate are also part of the ruling class.
Answer: invading illegals (cheap labor) is good for the ruling elites. Please note: President Obama and a super majority of the United States Senate are also part of the ruling class.
11
Much of this saddening migration is directly the fault of France and Britain for the profoundly destabilizing attacks on Libya under cover of a no-fly resolution by the UN Security Council. Libya since the European and American attacks has been a land in turmoil and that turmoil has of course spread.
6
Dear Nancy,
Sorry but I think you're wrong. I was alive at the time and I recall Godaffy was busy slaughtering rebels across the country. If NATO had not stepped in, the chaos and refugee crisis would have been even worse by now. Witness Syria, where nobody is stepping in really, and in less time it has produced easily 20 times the refugees of Libya.
Sorry but I think you're wrong. I was alive at the time and I recall Godaffy was busy slaughtering rebels across the country. If NATO had not stepped in, the chaos and refugee crisis would have been even worse by now. Witness Syria, where nobody is stepping in really, and in less time it has produced easily 20 times the refugees of Libya.
2
Great Britain should use any means to keep these people out, as should we.
59
Wouldn't it be possible to organize and aid these people so they could go back to their home countries and establish some kind of stability? I realize that might seem overly idealistic, but what really is the option? To have huge refugee camps all across Europe, filled with disaffected people and resented by the citizens that live near those camps?
Give these people the tools they need to re-establish their home communities, and maybe even give them military and logistic backing. This situation will never, never, never work.
Give these people the tools they need to re-establish their home communities, and maybe even give them military and logistic backing. This situation will never, never, never work.
14
Why would the EU tax payer money be directed to establish millions of migrants back home?
4
Not the first time... I remember articles and documentaries on the same subject several years ago. Politicians seem do wish to do little to solve the problems. But maybe they're unsolvable stemming from poverty and violence throughout N. Africa and the Middle East.
5
As Paul Kennedy described in his 1994 book, "Preparing for the 21st Century", Africa is going to walk to Europe, and it's not going to go well.
This is the "harvest of empire," says Democracy Now's Juan Gonzalez, describing the flood of immigrants to the US in the past two decades. And it applies to Europe, as well.
10
Glib and stupid. Refugees seek work and security. Many a prosperous, stable, non-imperialist state has seen the same swell. Nor is it at all fair or accurate to suggest that instability and dislocation in the middle-east - or Latin America, for that matter - is the necessary or exclusive result of imperialism. The invasion of Iraq, for instance, was idiotic almost beyond words, but the belief that without it the status-quo would have been sustained indefinately is fantasy.
This is not the time to finger point and take political shots. It is a time to propose useful, humane solutions.
Has Mr. Gonzalez and co. have any of those?
This is not the time to finger point and take political shots. It is a time to propose useful, humane solutions.
Has Mr. Gonzalez and co. have any of those?
6
Of course unlike the Boat People in the 70s (as one example) these migrants, poor and wretched as they are, want to move to Europe to sign on benefits and maintain their backwards mysoginistic religious lifestyles. They want accommodation, not assimilation.
88
So pretty much exactly like it is here, then.
3
Yyou`re so right. They claim that they are refugees, but once stay and and welfare allowance is granted they return for long vaccations in the homeland. And speaking of homeland, many a british subject, born in the United Kingdom nearly 50 years ago is still speaking the native tongue with a distinct pakistani accent.
In Norway, not long ago, a customs officer at an airport said "Welcome home" (in Norwegian) to a colored citizen returning from abroad, and he was not understood.
The article stated that Europe is unable to do anything about the current situation. That is a long way from the truth. Europe is unwilling, that is the truth. truth.
In Norway, not long ago, a customs officer at an airport said "Welcome home" (in Norwegian) to a colored citizen returning from abroad, and he was not understood.
The article stated that Europe is unable to do anything about the current situation. That is a long way from the truth. Europe is unwilling, that is the truth. truth.
The only people in the destination countries who benefit from this are the oligarchs who profit from the cheap labor and the tax cuts enabled by the decrease in public support for safety net programs brought on by animosity toward the migrants. The oligarchs will be able to live like princes, as the rich do in all 3rd world countries, in walled compounds with their own utilities and private security forces, while everyone else scrapes for a bare living in stench and squalor. The oligarchs are preventing their hired politicians from doing anything effective about this and so are responsible for this situation.
39
Below is the number of submitted asylum applications, in thousands, 2014, in descending order
Germany 173 000
Sweden 75 000
Italy 63 000
France 59 000
Hungary 41 000
UK 31 000
Much of the misery of refugees can be traced to The Sykes–Picot Agreement, a secret pact between the governments of the United Kingdom and France, in 1916 that carved up the Middle East, with insane boundaries.
Having been historically a contributor to the current the misery, is it unreasonable to expect the France and the UK to contribute as much to its solution as Sweden that had nothing to do with it ?
Germany 173 000
Sweden 75 000
Italy 63 000
France 59 000
Hungary 41 000
UK 31 000
Much of the misery of refugees can be traced to The Sykes–Picot Agreement, a secret pact between the governments of the United Kingdom and France, in 1916 that carved up the Middle East, with insane boundaries.
Having been historically a contributor to the current the misery, is it unreasonable to expect the France and the UK to contribute as much to its solution as Sweden that had nothing to do with it ?
10
Yes, it is unreasonable: it is as if one person did the crime, but another does the time.
Europe is being invaded. They are not obligated in any way whatsoever to bring in another huge wave of low-skilled cheap labor that will undercut their already suffering working classes. The UK has two million unemployed, one million illegal immigrants, many with criminal pasts, hiding in the shadows, a huge problem with Muslim integration, a housing crisis, a school places crisis, and a health care services crisis.
And frankly, the Middle East and Africa have been less than Gardens of Eden for centuries. The West has contributed every advance in health, technology, women's emancipation, universal education, and medicine that those countries have had.
Sweden's left, the "deracinated left" as Orwell put it so well, is what persuaded Sweden to take in all those immigrants. Malmo is not exactly the poster child for a successful outcome.
Europe is not obligated to commit cultural suicide because of what people did in 1916.
Look at the photo: those are all strong young men, economic migrants, willing to work for next to nothing. Just what Britain's unemployed need.
It's always so easy from New York, isn't it?
Europe is being invaded. They are not obligated in any way whatsoever to bring in another huge wave of low-skilled cheap labor that will undercut their already suffering working classes. The UK has two million unemployed, one million illegal immigrants, many with criminal pasts, hiding in the shadows, a huge problem with Muslim integration, a housing crisis, a school places crisis, and a health care services crisis.
And frankly, the Middle East and Africa have been less than Gardens of Eden for centuries. The West has contributed every advance in health, technology, women's emancipation, universal education, and medicine that those countries have had.
Sweden's left, the "deracinated left" as Orwell put it so well, is what persuaded Sweden to take in all those immigrants. Malmo is not exactly the poster child for a successful outcome.
Europe is not obligated to commit cultural suicide because of what people did in 1916.
Look at the photo: those are all strong young men, economic migrants, willing to work for next to nothing. Just what Britain's unemployed need.
It's always so easy from New York, isn't it?
71
"Elizabeth Renant" it seems it is easy to comment from New Mexico, too.
The European nations, like the United States, have long had asylum policies and laws stating that they do not forcefully return someone to another country where their life would be in imminent danger from terrorists or other threats to their lives, including repressive governments. This kind of policy is difficult for the receiving nations but represents a humanitarian decency which, in different circumstances, we Americans would greatly appreciate if we were faced with personal danger here in future situations.
Most of the men trying to storm the Channel Tunnel are probably economic refugees fleeing situations where they cannot make enough money to pay even for food and shelter for themselves or their families. They are different than those fleeing terrorism or torture, but they are nonetheless desperate people who have paid a heavy price in facing danger to try to improve their lives.
The problems of the world do not go away because we refuse to look at them. With modern forms of travel (even in dangerous boats) and communications spreading the word about the wealth of developed nations, these problems are likely to get worse. We have to engage with the world when possible to give people greater options to stay in their home countries. Their problems have a way of becoming our problems, like it or not.
The European nations, like the United States, have long had asylum policies and laws stating that they do not forcefully return someone to another country where their life would be in imminent danger from terrorists or other threats to their lives, including repressive governments. This kind of policy is difficult for the receiving nations but represents a humanitarian decency which, in different circumstances, we Americans would greatly appreciate if we were faced with personal danger here in future situations.
Most of the men trying to storm the Channel Tunnel are probably economic refugees fleeing situations where they cannot make enough money to pay even for food and shelter for themselves or their families. They are different than those fleeing terrorism or torture, but they are nonetheless desperate people who have paid a heavy price in facing danger to try to improve their lives.
The problems of the world do not go away because we refuse to look at them. With modern forms of travel (even in dangerous boats) and communications spreading the word about the wealth of developed nations, these problems are likely to get worse. We have to engage with the world when possible to give people greater options to stay in their home countries. Their problems have a way of becoming our problems, like it or not.
6
In addition to those numbers come family reunions; sposes and children are readily granted immigration, often parents as well. Furthermore, those not married are free to marry in the homeland and bring the bride or groom to Europe.
10
After reading through the comments here, I think I just lost my faith in humanity.
I am learning German, in Germany, in a class full of migrants, a handful of whom are from this recent wave of refugees. There's an educated gentleman from Syria in my class, who is manfully trying to learn the language, despite the horrors he's endured. In his 50s, he'll probably be facing manual labour for the rest of his working life.
Europe can't deal with the tidal wave of humanity washing up on its shores. That's clear. But people are fleeing spreading droughts and famines, not to mention failed states and war. We'd all be fleeing too, as far and as fast as we could run. When people are up against ISIS, it's cruel and ludicrous to berate them for not putting in elbow grease to build themselves a better country.
I don't know what the answer is. But I know what it is most emphatically not - it's not talk of rounding people up, of dumping them back in the sea, of speaking of 'them' like they're just overbreeding rabbits that need to be sterilised and/or culled.
Many of you writing here should be ashamed.
We've been down that road before and we all know how it ended.
I am learning German, in Germany, in a class full of migrants, a handful of whom are from this recent wave of refugees. There's an educated gentleman from Syria in my class, who is manfully trying to learn the language, despite the horrors he's endured. In his 50s, he'll probably be facing manual labour for the rest of his working life.
Europe can't deal with the tidal wave of humanity washing up on its shores. That's clear. But people are fleeing spreading droughts and famines, not to mention failed states and war. We'd all be fleeing too, as far and as fast as we could run. When people are up against ISIS, it's cruel and ludicrous to berate them for not putting in elbow grease to build themselves a better country.
I don't know what the answer is. But I know what it is most emphatically not - it's not talk of rounding people up, of dumping them back in the sea, of speaking of 'them' like they're just overbreeding rabbits that need to be sterilised and/or culled.
Many of you writing here should be ashamed.
We've been down that road before and we all know how it ended.
60
Tell you what: why don't you open your home to a goodly number of them?
60
Fenella - But they are over breeding and mother earth has finite resources. Their over breeding is worse than man made climate change but since they work for a pittance their numbers are overlooked by the 1%.
13
I am afraid the prevailing political view will bring us down that road again. Goodness in the extreme is not good. By the way, very few, if any, of the current leadership in Europe and the UK are willing to bear the burden of this massive immigration. It is the lower layer of the population who is surrounded by people of strange customs and languages, and who see available jobs going to foreigners, and who have their pensions reduced.
13
Too many disturbing comments getting too many recommends. These are people seeking food and shelter on planet Earth. They should be helped. This should be solved. I am not naive when I say this. There is enough money, enough resources to do this. It's greed that kills and isolates, even in so-called advanced nations. Study history. Ancestors from these co-called advanced nations took advantage. This is what happens when people take advantage. Generations get the short end, and they move for a better life.
22
Your attitude and values are wonderful, but I notice you also do not have one concrete recommendation that history might suggest is workable. This is one of those issues where good intentions (and I truly mean "good") are not enough. I agree with your emotions and attitudes, but cannot for the life of me see a solution.
3
No, they aren't poor. They paid $5,000 - a fortune in their home country - to traffickers to bypass European border controls.
No, they aren't seeking food and shelter. They have travelled through Italy, Germany, Belgium and France. They are using wire cutters to break into the Channel Tunnel.
Moving for a better life -- i.e. welfare paid for by others -- does not fit the UN definition of a refugee.
No, they aren't seeking food and shelter. They have travelled through Italy, Germany, Belgium and France. They are using wire cutters to break into the Channel Tunnel.
Moving for a better life -- i.e. welfare paid for by others -- does not fit the UN definition of a refugee.
5
@Robert and Bob.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
One solution: invest in bordering economies. Know that your neighbors difficulties will be your own.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
One solution: invest in bordering economies. Know that your neighbors difficulties will be your own.
Why do they want to come to the UK so badly?
Part of the answer, a big part, is that it is so easy to get work in the UK without proper identification and right-to-work documentation. This creates the huge demand.
This is a BRITISH problem with a BRITISH solution.
Part of the answer, a big part, is that it is so easy to get work in the UK without proper identification and right-to-work documentation. This creates the huge demand.
This is a BRITISH problem with a BRITISH solution.
64
No, its not because of work - Spanish and Greek holiday resorts offer way more undocumented work opportunities.
Britain is so popular for one reason only - benefits. A free house, free spending money, free healthcare and free education.
Britain is so popular for one reason only - benefits. A free house, free spending money, free healthcare and free education.
3
The countries that have been and are illegally invading , bombing other sovereign countries thereby creating these refugees and migrants should be responsible for their care as well as for the stabilization of their societies economically, structurally and infrastructure rebuilding. If not they should be held accountable in the ICC, charged with war crimes and pay reparations, just as Germany was made to do when it illegally invaded other countries
7
Stories like this lend credence to Trump's complaints and explain why he is riding high in the polls.
47
The funny thing is that last century all those countries at Europe at home, providing order and infrastructure for free! But the US, after WWII decided that colonies had outlived their useful life (funny they didn't have any) and started destabilizing Africa and helped kicking out the French and the Brits. Well look at how well it worked! Sure they were going to be independent, stable and somehow solve all their problems by themselves! Same thing this century with Iraq. And that's why we don't let kids, and should not let politicians play with fire!
12
That is a pretty twisted view of colonization--to simultaneously blame the US for all post-colonial woes and to actually assert that the African colonized were better off staying colonized. Additionally, what would those who fought in the American Revolution say about staying colonized?
2
According to The Economist, because Britain is not part of Schengen, it receives about half the number of applications for refugee status that France does, one-sixth the number Germany does. But there are anywhere from 600,000 to one million migrants not applying for refugee status living illegally in Britain; and UKIP goes crazy over it.
In the 44 excrement-covered acres that encompass "the Jungle," Sudanese and Eritreans apparently squabble endlessly, and sometimes violently. The reason most (on average, 5-10% of passengers from every boat that reaches Italy make their way to Calais) are fixated on getting to Britain is because 39% of asylum applications are granted in Britain, only 22% in France; Britain also has no identity cards and fewer workplace inspections than the typical European country. And, of course, there's the basic fact of greater job availability.
The increasing tribalism of purportedly enlightened societies in the First World is worrying. Across Europe and America, people are inching near Islamic State levels of toleration. Liberals have a marked tendency to downplay the lack of toleration often found in the unfortunate and to endow them with noble qualities. And conservatives see everyone who isn't a fellow tribal member as an existential threat to their way of life.
Something that's apparent in many of the world's conflicts is the role culture and identity plays. A Radical Enlightenment-based education is as important as ever.
In the 44 excrement-covered acres that encompass "the Jungle," Sudanese and Eritreans apparently squabble endlessly, and sometimes violently. The reason most (on average, 5-10% of passengers from every boat that reaches Italy make their way to Calais) are fixated on getting to Britain is because 39% of asylum applications are granted in Britain, only 22% in France; Britain also has no identity cards and fewer workplace inspections than the typical European country. And, of course, there's the basic fact of greater job availability.
The increasing tribalism of purportedly enlightened societies in the First World is worrying. Across Europe and America, people are inching near Islamic State levels of toleration. Liberals have a marked tendency to downplay the lack of toleration often found in the unfortunate and to endow them with noble qualities. And conservatives see everyone who isn't a fellow tribal member as an existential threat to their way of life.
Something that's apparent in many of the world's conflicts is the role culture and identity plays. A Radical Enlightenment-based education is as important as ever.
14
Humans are inherently tribal. Human enterprises that refuse to acknowledge that are doomed to fail.
6
Decades later now, the wisdom from Thatcher is only becoming more apparent, for keeping its own currency, and keeping EU at arms' length, with no illusion at all of "integrating" with the continent.
And if the europeans can't even integrate among themselves among the north and south, how could they possibly imagine integrating (and assimilating) those illegals from africa and the middle east?
And if the europeans can't even integrate among themselves among the north and south, how could they possibly imagine integrating (and assimilating) those illegals from africa and the middle east?
Out of sheer practicality, and not a desire for empire, the West may be forced to consider (re-)colonizing some of these countries. If they are not going to clean up their own mess, the West may have to do it for them.
23
The era of European economic and political integration has reached a plateau and will not grow further in the near future. Beginning with the failure of the European constitution in 2005 and continuing with the debt and Greek crises, the limits of "ever closer union" have revealed themselves. European institutions, including national governments and the EU, have shown themselves unable to cope well with these challenges.
If there is one single area, however, where Europeans can and should work together more closely to reach common goals, it is in the realm of security. The EU should work with NATO to create a European military command and coast guard with both offensive and defensive capabilities to deter aggression by Russia and undocumented migration. A military and police response is the only appropriate one to this problem; undocumented migrants must be deported to their home countries (or at least a third country like Algeria or Morocco). Letting these squatter camps fester and grow will only make the problem worse.
If there is one single area, however, where Europeans can and should work together more closely to reach common goals, it is in the realm of security. The EU should work with NATO to create a European military command and coast guard with both offensive and defensive capabilities to deter aggression by Russia and undocumented migration. A military and police response is the only appropriate one to this problem; undocumented migrants must be deported to their home countries (or at least a third country like Algeria or Morocco). Letting these squatter camps fester and grow will only make the problem worse.
14
And why would Algeria or Morocco want them or be responsible for resolving this difficult issue?
Excepting refugees from Syria or Iraq, for example, this is Africa's problem and the Middle East's problem. To make it Europe's problem lets the home countries of these refugees off the hook. You think that African dictators aren't delighted by the prospects of sending as many of their poor as possible to Europa? This wave of illegal aliens will just be one more step toward Europe becoming just like the countries they came from.
38
There is only one way to deal with this: zero tolerance. Any and every illegal alien caught anywhere in France, Britain, or any other European country needs to be given swift deportation/repatriation. Australia was forced to do this several years ago to avoid being overrun with Third World immigrants and the number of phony asylum seekers has dropped by over 90%. Under international agreements any and all genuine refugees are to seek haven/safety/asylum in the nearest nation to their own that is not at war or under severe oppression and be cared for in UN and charitable refugee centers/camps until such time as peace is restored at home and they can return. Clearly these interlopers from Africa, Asia and the Middle East are totally disregarding this policy and traipsing across several such peaceful nearby countries and deliberately traveling thousands of miles across ocean and desert to reach the welfare states of the European Union where they can expect first rate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, housing, and jobs as "peaceful invaders" in countries where they are unwelcome, unwanted and unneeded, as Europe has double digit unemployment, widespread poverty, and overcrowding among their own citizens. Until the people of Europe wake up and demand that this invasion be stopped "cold" the nation traitors/globalists in power in most European countries will only continue to welcome and coddle these lawbreakers and create more ethnic and social problems for their societies.
46
Migrations are as old as life on this planet. All species will search for a better environment when their existence is threatened. Life itself for humans goes beyond life vs death. We, due to our uniqueness as a species, will migrate for more attractive destinations. BTW, Europe’s population is not native. It’s a result of early migrations from Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations
The current political instability, violence, and climate change will result in more migrations. The only way to stop this is to make the destination worse than the origin or to make the origin more livable. History has demonstrated this for millions of years. If we accept this reality, maybe we can do something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations
The current political instability, violence, and climate change will result in more migrations. The only way to stop this is to make the destination worse than the origin or to make the origin more livable. History has demonstrated this for millions of years. If we accept this reality, maybe we can do something.
7
At some point in the not too distant future, we here in North America are going to be required to make some very hard and hard-hearted decisions to preserve our own world, and I mean that literally. We cannot afford to feed and clothe and house and employ all the surplus people created in the Third World. I will support doing whatever it takes to preserve our world, whether that be strict, some might say draconian, border control enforcement or, on the other end of the spectrum, costly carbon control policies to mitigate climate control. I, too, believe we have to grant asylum to the approx. 11 illegal immigrants currently living here undocumented.
I don't see any other way to preserve the American quality of life for our succeeding generations. And I might add that citizenship indeed matters. Everyone in the world doesn't have a right to be an American and come here to live. We can, should and indeed MUST control who enters and lives in our country.
I don't see any other way to preserve the American quality of life for our succeeding generations. And I might add that citizenship indeed matters. Everyone in the world doesn't have a right to be an American and come here to live. We can, should and indeed MUST control who enters and lives in our country.
31
It's no longer the border. It's individuals who enter the country on visas and fail to leave when their visas expire. Typically, but not always, they apply for asylum. As individuals in this status are not allowed to work, states and cities must support them.
6
I agree but with those hard choices should come some hard foreign policy choices; ones in which we (I am including the Europeans as well) don't go around destabilizing countries and whole regions. Constructive soft power needs a bit more prevalence.
1
We are seeing acute national instability brought on by a very large demographic youth bulge in the Middle East and South Asia. There is a the ongoing effect of a full onslaught by the Western Powers to subdue oil rich regions. The handling of these regions is being played out in a modern context, as burning and pillaging would just not be acceptable in our global society. Especially if Western Capitalists want their global utopia realized. As you can see, China is being handled completely differently than the Equatorial resource rich and militarily weak regions of the world. One must have second hand man, so to speak.
The problem here though, that even with the more modern advent of social and psychological morass into the art of warfare, the West has grown out of it's own mind. They believe they are chosen humans, meant to rule it's more novel cousins of various pigment level and less than advanced Cartesian sensibilities. Although those Confucian Chinese and others sure do make a reliable and laborious body mass to utilize.
Whether the West's demise is being orchestrated for some reason that sits beyond me, this must mean that their domination of global development was merely a blip on the radar screen. Perhaps a few advantages and luck allowed for the West's rise, but for the long run, human beings will move on
in a way that cannot involve our current systems of power.
Multiculturalism is pointless, and hurts more than helps. They use it merely for more profit.
The problem here though, that even with the more modern advent of social and psychological morass into the art of warfare, the West has grown out of it's own mind. They believe they are chosen humans, meant to rule it's more novel cousins of various pigment level and less than advanced Cartesian sensibilities. Although those Confucian Chinese and others sure do make a reliable and laborious body mass to utilize.
Whether the West's demise is being orchestrated for some reason that sits beyond me, this must mean that their domination of global development was merely a blip on the radar screen. Perhaps a few advantages and luck allowed for the West's rise, but for the long run, human beings will move on
in a way that cannot involve our current systems of power.
Multiculturalism is pointless, and hurts more than helps. They use it merely for more profit.
Europe has the right and the responsibility to close its borders to tens of millions of refugees from across the Middle East, the Balkans, and Africa, or Europe as we know it will cease to exist within two generations. Among the most fundamental rights a nation enjoys is the security of its own borders. Neither political pressure nor the good intentions of bleeding hearts should infringe on that basic right. Anyone who believes a sclerotic, aging, stagnant, indebted Europe can absorb hundreds of thousands of immigrants without any negative consequence is living in a fantasy world.
68
Maybe a sclerotic, aging, stagnant, indebted Europe needs some new blood.
With one comment you have managed to slam Europe and much of Africa and the Middle East. Maybe with a little more self-righteous ranting you could have included more in your slam
With one comment you have managed to slam Europe and much of Africa and the Middle East. Maybe with a little more self-righteous ranting you could have included more in your slam
4
Welcome to the future. Consider the scale of the desperate migration that will happen when an additional 2 billion people exist on the planet (in another 25 years or so) and basic resources are collapsing across vast areas because of global warming, endless war, or other man-made disasters. Is any country planning for this scenario?
53
Actually, we are - or at any rate the Pentagon is. But don't mention it to the GOPers, it drives them nuts that the military and intelligence establishment sees climate change as a clear and present danger.
Ashamed and disgusted by the xenophobic comments of the "esteemed" NYT readership. This is like the newspaper version of Fox.
9
Really? How easily you toss out other nations' cultural patrimony, working-class wages, and futures. Nice of you. Are you inviting any migrants into your home?
26
The paper hasn't changed. The US center has shifted dramatically rightward on this issue, as it has done periodically during our history. I doubt the working age men of the great depression welcomed hordes of immigrants, illegal or otherwise. It will be a long time before we 'need' uneducated destitute labor again.
5
Ashamed and disgusted, but again with no suggestions. Offer any idea at all, and not just emotion. Empathy can solve some relationship issues, but not these kinds of problems.
9
Matriarchal families are inclusive, support their members and have the ability to limit their offspring. Patriarchal families are each mutually exclusive, scorn other families and treat children like possessions or cattle, signs of personal wealth.
10
Bingo Carl! I watched a Netflix movie about ancient Egypt and the pyramids. Seems that they are much older perhaps then we first thought. And the Egyptian society was matriarchal with prosperity and peace for THOUSANDS of years, until patriarchy began to take over again. They even intimated, that we are in another upswing of a cycle back into matriarchy and thus a golden age.
Overpopulation is what needs addressing -- urgently. We are hitting 8 billion, and that will become 16 billion very quickly if we do nothing. Then scenes like this (and worse) will be the norm.
22
The solution is to educate and empower women...at long last. Provide money for women to build businesses to support themselves and their children. Provide women with FREE birth control and FREE healthcare to ensure healthy moms and healthy babies. Once women's lives improve, their societies will improve, and their children will be able to thrive locally. Population will decline and those born will be well provided for.
4
Dear MJ Earl,
Yes but, it won't get to 16 billion. Our current resource production and infrastructure can't support it. Before it gets close to that, famine and plague will cut the population back, as happens with other species all the time.
Yes but, it won't get to 16 billion. Our current resource production and infrastructure can't support it. Before it gets close to that, famine and plague will cut the population back, as happens with other species all the time.
Why should Britain, France and Europe take these migrants in? Britain, for instance, is the state of the British People. These migrants have no intention of becoming real Brits or Europeans. They want to stay what they are. They'll come over and start muslim'ing up the place with their sharia, and their halal and their costumes and their 6th century headgear. Who needs that?
Show up clean, with a passport, some skills and a desire to learn the language and become a true Brit and I'd bet that they'd think about it, otherwise Britain, France and Europe are not for them.
Give them some food, medical care as necessary, and then re-deposit them onto the same beaches they came from. Send a message. This unfettered immigration does not work.
If your conscience is bothering you, give them some money so that they can subsist back home. Spending money on them in this way is better than spending money on them when they show up.
If photographers can be there to photograph this why can't the cops be there to round these people up, put them on buses, bring them to boats or planes, and sail or fly them back to the very same places they came from? Send a message that this migration activity is futile.
Show up clean, with a passport, some skills and a desire to learn the language and become a true Brit and I'd bet that they'd think about it, otherwise Britain, France and Europe are not for them.
Give them some food, medical care as necessary, and then re-deposit them onto the same beaches they came from. Send a message. This unfettered immigration does not work.
If your conscience is bothering you, give them some money so that they can subsist back home. Spending money on them in this way is better than spending money on them when they show up.
If photographers can be there to photograph this why can't the cops be there to round these people up, put them on buses, bring them to boats or planes, and sail or fly them back to the very same places they came from? Send a message that this migration activity is futile.
31
The Europeans during WW2 just didn't have the guts to stop Hitler from gassing people he didn't like. Now the Europeans don't have the guts to stop the monster with many heads from entering Europe. The Europeans just don't have courage and wisdom and team spirit to stop disasters. It's in their blood.
14
Reading many of these comments, I've been half expecting someone to float the idea of Concentration Camps and Ovens. We could also seal them in huge concrete structures with no food and water, then come back in about a month to shove in more. No need to clean up. Let them all rot.
And pray there is no Avenging God who sends us all to Hell for our callousness.
And pray there is no Avenging God who sends us all to Hell for our callousness.
3
Brian NY: Oh please. How elitist. A wealthy New Yorker attaching nazism to the need to protect sovereignty is cheap and stupid. And yes, if you can afford to live in NY you have no clue how the rest of the world is living, especially those on the bottom rungs right here in the U.S.A. We need an intelligent dialog that allows for the deterioration of life for all those already within a nation's borders if those borders cease to exist. Want to know what life is like in a culture that doesn't value human beings? Try living in some of these places. You will learn a lot. I know because I did.
10
Every asylum granted spurs ten more immigrations. Until Europe deports each and every would-beimmigrant, things will keep getting worse.
At the moment, tens of millions are trying to get into Europe, basically taking advantage of antiquated asylum procedures that did not take into account opportunistic migration. This is unsustainable.
At the moment, tens of millions are trying to get into Europe, basically taking advantage of antiquated asylum procedures that did not take into account opportunistic migration. This is unsustainable.
38
I find it despicable that our current leaders treat this issue with a complete lack of humanity. Not too long ago, it was Chancellor Angela Merkel who "honestly" pointed out to a teenager girl how "sometimes politics are tough", something she only allowed herself to say because this girl was just a migrant. Now, we have Prime Minister Cameron who qualifies human beings as “disturbances” and “things”, people with each their own story, risking their lives to get to Britain, because it is a safe heaven. No kidding European citizens are being fed fear, racism and xenophobia by their own leaders and the media to feel like being invaded by another culture. Far right political parties will be making their bread out of this, gaining more visibility to finally becoming the center of attention from the medias. And guess who will take credit from avoiding far right radicals overcoming Europe: the right and left wings. They know the story of the past century.
And by the way, how much does it cost to add more security measures to counter this flow, place the migrants into camps, review their applications as refugees (which takes up to five years during which they are forbidden to work meaning they live off state money), and send them back; compared to helping them set in as a workforce, as we desperately need unskilled labour, and getting graduated migrants to pass our national exams and become an intellectual force to drive our economy forward?
And by the way, how much does it cost to add more security measures to counter this flow, place the migrants into camps, review their applications as refugees (which takes up to five years during which they are forbidden to work meaning they live off state money), and send them back; compared to helping them set in as a workforce, as we desperately need unskilled labour, and getting graduated migrants to pass our national exams and become an intellectual force to drive our economy forward?
1
The only true long term solution is women's education. If you look at countries like South Korea and Japan that came out of the ruins within the past two generations and have built thriving economies, education is the key. The migrant problem won't be solved overnight but you can bet that every dollar we spending education a girl will pay for itself in spades.
11
Attach education goals for women with equal opportunity for jobs and reliable birth control. That would indeed improve the fortunes of many.
Societies need to be small enough that everyone can be cared for.
When that is not possible--when too many people come in--the citizens'
humane instincts are undermined by the need to protect their level of living.
Immigration should only be allowed up to the point that the people already
within a country will not be hurt.
When that is not possible--when too many people come in--the citizens'
humane instincts are undermined by the need to protect their level of living.
Immigration should only be allowed up to the point that the people already
within a country will not be hurt.
21
It is clear that the major story of the next decade will be the plight of refugees. As man has overpopulated the planet well past its carrying capacity, we are going to have to face the gut wrenching truth that we cannot save everyone. On one hand, we have agricultural scientists feverishly working to increase agricultural output to be able to feed the projected arrival of billions more people. On the other hand, we don't seem to have the ability to manage the 7 billion we do have.
If mankind feels it is so exceptional that we can ignore nature's law of survival of the fittest, then we need to demonstrate this by somehow figuring out how to control our population, and learn how to treat the planet as our home and not a trash can.
If mankind feels it is so exceptional that we can ignore nature's law of survival of the fittest, then we need to demonstrate this by somehow figuring out how to control our population, and learn how to treat the planet as our home and not a trash can.
32
In the past, when a place was intolerable, no one could escape. Now, people can escape. When they come, they force better off countries to face their problems. Humanitarianism urges me to help them, but doing so is not easy. Assimilating large groups causes many problems. Many of the immigrants can accomplish much, but the process of educating them and finding employment for them is daunting. It is easiest to force them back where they came from, but many of them will find ways to return, return, and return. Western countries may be forced to find ways to educate and assimilate them even if we do not want to. I do not see much improvement in their lives in the countries that they are running away from anytime soon.
4
I'd rather the French stay French, Italians, Italians, and so on and so forth, really.
3
The present third world is a good place to draw lessons. Take Mumbai; a city of 22 million with infrastructure to support perhaps a million. The influx of refugees from the rest of India has largely corrupted the soul. 12 million live without water, sanitation, and defecate on the streets. Everyone steals what they can; power, water, food, money. Every one is a criminal to survive. We are socially dead; we ignore the filth, the wretchedness, and the less fortunate.
This will happen here. Not today or tomorrow, but in 40 years we will be there. Once corrupted, we stop being effective as a people. We must act before we are corrupted, indifferent, callous, and become the third world. We have no choice but to act now.
How?
We need to go in there, and take it over. Not to set up a local regime (like Iraq), but to own it, run it. Not to loot and pillage like the Brits and Europeans did. But to add to US territory. Call it manifest destiny. The population of every colony pretty much colluded with Britain to live in a place with some law and order, and a hint of social justice, that they promised. We will get better cooperation as long as we don't pick a local ruler.
People are choosing to die freely in tunnels and oceans, they don't want to live in bondage in their homes. They couldn't care less about self-determination and political freedom. If we don't go and fix it there, they will corrupt us here. Our choice; albeit an awful one.
Kalidan
This will happen here. Not today or tomorrow, but in 40 years we will be there. Once corrupted, we stop being effective as a people. We must act before we are corrupted, indifferent, callous, and become the third world. We have no choice but to act now.
How?
We need to go in there, and take it over. Not to set up a local regime (like Iraq), but to own it, run it. Not to loot and pillage like the Brits and Europeans did. But to add to US territory. Call it manifest destiny. The population of every colony pretty much colluded with Britain to live in a place with some law and order, and a hint of social justice, that they promised. We will get better cooperation as long as we don't pick a local ruler.
People are choosing to die freely in tunnels and oceans, they don't want to live in bondage in their homes. They couldn't care less about self-determination and political freedom. If we don't go and fix it there, they will corrupt us here. Our choice; albeit an awful one.
Kalidan
6
There's got to be a happy medium between these "forget human rights, just shoot 'em" commenters and the "everyone is from an immigrant family and employs Mexicans, so let 'em all in wherever they wanna go" commenters. Who can walk that line? Not Trump. Not the French so far. Who will rid us of these troublesome flat, hot and crowded issues?
3
Completely agree. So few unifying leaders in general. But there have been some, MLK, Mandela, and someday there'll be one again. I do believe that.
1
Look to the period of the First Century C.E. The Norse, the Saxons to England. The Huns and the Mongols from Asia across the vast area of Central Asia to Europe. Climate Change, war, privation, etc. We in the 20th Century had relatively stable CLIMATE. Not any more. With climate change, with drought that marginalizes those already on the margin, with ethnic strife (thousands of years of that), this should not be a surprise.
As a side note, how do you think the Native Americans (North and South America) felt with the onslaught of the Europeans, especially the British and others coming into and scouring what is now America?
As a side note, how do you think the Native Americans (North and South America) felt with the onslaught of the Europeans, especially the British and others coming into and scouring what is now America?
4
These mass migrations anywhere in the world have the potential for destabilizing sovereign naions. This can be an attack weapon of its own, as migrants fully understand the benign consequences of acting, and any heavy handed deterence will surely be reported live on CNN.
10
Europe, first, has a refugee problem of major portions. Thousands of people are running from death, wars and terrorists. Then, it also has an economic refugee problem, people fleeing their homelands in search of a job that would pay them enough to eat, find shelter and support their families back home. These are largely separate problems bundled into one lump.
Some of this is brought about by the fact that one no longer needs a passport to travel across Europe. Not long ago, you'd have to show your passport five or six times to get from the Mediterranean landing in Europe to France. Now, once you are in, you're in.
European nations, however, have a long history of enforcing laws against people who have not established a legal right to stay in their countries. England, in particular, guards against immigrant visitors arriving to take part in the free national health care system, American visitors included. The French police are well known to conduct document checks in late night cafes where immigrants gather. Perhaps they have let up in more recent times or been overwhelmed.
This is an on going story, not one of a sudden eruption at the Channel Tunnel. As such, we should be restrained in commenting by the fact that we are uninformed generally about the background. Yes, of course there is the potential for the world's have nots to simply rush into developed nations causing great problems and dislocation. We are a long way from that point. Don't panic, in other words.
Some of this is brought about by the fact that one no longer needs a passport to travel across Europe. Not long ago, you'd have to show your passport five or six times to get from the Mediterranean landing in Europe to France. Now, once you are in, you're in.
European nations, however, have a long history of enforcing laws against people who have not established a legal right to stay in their countries. England, in particular, guards against immigrant visitors arriving to take part in the free national health care system, American visitors included. The French police are well known to conduct document checks in late night cafes where immigrants gather. Perhaps they have let up in more recent times or been overwhelmed.
This is an on going story, not one of a sudden eruption at the Channel Tunnel. As such, we should be restrained in commenting by the fact that we are uninformed generally about the background. Yes, of course there is the potential for the world's have nots to simply rush into developed nations causing great problems and dislocation. We are a long way from that point. Don't panic, in other words.
4
This article has certainly brought out comments that display Western values - not necessarily very attractive values.
Refugees from natural or political disasters will go where opportunity for survival is better, whether it is across the country or across an ocean. Erecting a wall along one border is a short-term and short-sighted solution. We need more comprehensive, humanitarian solutions or we will see see the ugly side of Western values, again and again.
Refugees from natural or political disasters will go where opportunity for survival is better, whether it is across the country or across an ocean. Erecting a wall along one border is a short-term and short-sighted solution. We need more comprehensive, humanitarian solutions or we will see see the ugly side of Western values, again and again.
2
@ Rita, California
What we NEED is an end to the wars, and the poverty, and the famine that is driving these masses abroad in the first place!
What we NEED is for these countries to take more responsibility for their own citizens, instead of turning a blind eye to their misery, and placing them on somebody else's door step.
What we NEED is a more equal distribution of wealth, because by and large, this problem is an economical one.
What we NEED is an end to the wars, and the poverty, and the famine that is driving these masses abroad in the first place!
What we NEED is for these countries to take more responsibility for their own citizens, instead of turning a blind eye to their misery, and placing them on somebody else's door step.
What we NEED is a more equal distribution of wealth, because by and large, this problem is an economical one.
"Squalid camp with few toilets and little water", "misgivings about immigration, and sometimes outright hostility" from European countries, "Nigel Farage, leader of the populist, right-wing U.K. Independence Party", plans to return «"illegal migrants to West Africa », and —probably the most disgusting— "vacationers heading to France who face significant delays": we are well informed of the squalid selfishness of the West (if only the journalists of NYT were in charge!); but, of course, NOT A WORD of the fact that the French minister Cazeneuve explicitly invited them to seek asylum in France, last May, to no effect…
2
Many years ago, in the late 50s, when I worked at Mt. Sinai Hospital for Dr. Alan F. Guttmacher, a pioneer in the field of birth control, he did research with the Population Council and at that time studies showed that population growth was going to be a crisis issue in future years. Well, that time has arrived and all that research has proved correct. I miss Dr. Guttmacher's wisdom and kindness every day.
24
How not to think of what John Locke writes in his treaty "Some Thoughts Concerning Education" when one observes how the immigrants - where ever they come from - seem to believe hard as rock that they're entitled to get into England or Europe or the West for that maatter, notwithstanding the rules and laws of any country they may come across?
"He that has the confidence to turn his Wishes into Demands, will be but a little way from thinking he ought to obtain them".
"He that has the confidence to turn his Wishes into Demands, will be but a little way from thinking he ought to obtain them".
16
Prime Minister Cameron should be very concerned, indeed. The British people re-elected him and is party just two months ago and I don't think their mandate was to welcome more illegals.
21
This wave of northerly migration isn't about overpopulation. It's about failed states across a vast region of Africa and the Middle East. Specifically, it's about the failure of governments to provide basic freedom, safety or an opportunity to prosper to their citizens. The citizens are caught between secular tyrants and sectarian barbarians, so they leave if they can.
6
Why doesn't Britain end the practice of asylum and end the practice of granting refugee status to migrants, effective immediately? That should stop the waves of migrants leaving their home countries. The military should be called in to round up the migrants currently in northern France and return them to their home countries. Any persons not in possession of the proper papers in Britain should be deported immediately. Times have changed. Wealth(ier) countries have limited resources and can no longer absorb poor people from failed countries who wish to migrate, have numerous children and leech off the assets that are intended for use by a country's citizens.
25
How many do you want to support here . Suppose the Chinese send liberty ships with hundreds of thousands to hawaii waving Ted kennedy pixs and waving American flags as a leftist you would think its wonderful , try growing your own food, live without electricity , heat etc and experience the third world before you invite 100 million more to the US. Keep 2 africans barely alive with food so they can have 15 children then those 15 can barely survive or come here
4
If I were a King, I would have brought them to my kingdom, gave them land and food, and then put them to work. These people are born in the wrong time in the wrong place. They are aspiring to work and make some money to support themselves and their families. Unless we create economic balance among populations, the western civilization will be over run and chocked by the have nots.
39
No need to be a king, Mr. Sarma. As strange as it may sound to a number of readers who commented here, this is how America was born, grew and thrived up today. And despite some rabid anti-immigrant opinion expressed by these readers, it seems to me that Americans are much less xenofobic than continental Europeans. Besides, what we see here at play are the same political weknesses that have permitted the escalation of the Greek financial crisis to the point of weakening the European common currency, the Euro. Unreasonable bouts of nationalism have forbidden until now the creation of common political instruments to manage the Euro, like fiscal harmonization in the Euro zone. The same anachronistic nationalism has stopped any serious effort to put in common humanitarian and security resources among the EU states to manage the inflow of migrants. There is no management of any crisis, be it financial or humanitarian, without common policies and common, i.e. supernational, political instruments. Period.
The reason we have so much illegal immigration is because we don't have enough legal immigration. In the case of the U.S., we can absorb the people because generally there is work for them here. But immigration problems are soluble with the governing/political class will and competence, neither of which resides in much of the world's governments these days.
21
The US allows in one million legal immigrants every year and even more come illegally.
Since there are no jobs that pay a living wage for tens of millions of US citizens, how does this serve the country to bring in even more workers?
Since there are no jobs that pay a living wage for tens of millions of US citizens, how does this serve the country to bring in even more workers?
4
Why would you take to time to try and immigrate legally. I'm assuming that if you were from a foreign middle class family looking to further your education and had a plan for the future legal immigration would be the way to go. We keep calling them immigrants when in fact they're refugees who probably came from and have nothing, but the clothes on their backs and very little if any money. Sadly at the end of the day they like us are just humans hoping for something better.
In California, they have completely overwhelmed and nearly destroyed both the emergency medical care system and the public school system, and still they keep coming and having citizen babies.
Maybe you can absorb them where you are.
Here, not so much.
Maybe you can absorb them where you are.
Here, not so much.
How many migrants should a European country be forced to accept? 3,000? 30,000? 300,000? Africa and the Middle East are hemorrhaging their conflicts into their neighbors with no sign of stopping. The safety nets in such strong places as Sweden and Denmark are already beginning to sag, while places like Italy and Greece are beginning to suffer on top of their existing poverty and financial misfortune.
The fact is we in the US are demanding countries take in hordes of people who don't speak the language, have no marketable skills beyond manual labor, have many medical and psychological needs, and have a vastly different culture. We're demanding they pour millions upon millions of Euros into other people at the continuing expense of their own citizens.
And let us not forget how Muslim enclaves in all of these countries are making life miserable for non-Muslims. I don't mean "raping white women". I mean creating dangerous areas for non-Muslims. I mean enforcing racist and sexist policies in their locations. I mean eventually spawning discontented young men who can't find work or a wife.
No, I cannot espouse this and I am very much a liberal.
The fact is we in the US are demanding countries take in hordes of people who don't speak the language, have no marketable skills beyond manual labor, have many medical and psychological needs, and have a vastly different culture. We're demanding they pour millions upon millions of Euros into other people at the continuing expense of their own citizens.
And let us not forget how Muslim enclaves in all of these countries are making life miserable for non-Muslims. I don't mean "raping white women". I mean creating dangerous areas for non-Muslims. I mean enforcing racist and sexist policies in their locations. I mean eventually spawning discontented young men who can't find work or a wife.
No, I cannot espouse this and I am very much a liberal.
54
This is not about rich or poor or wrong or right. It is about balance, and balance is lost across the planet. A seventy year old in the US (or any other western country) that never paid to raise children expects someone else's offspring to pay for their social security, medicare etc. A family of indigents from a third world country has no opportunity in their original location to improve their life. Western governments want to spend on their citizens beyond their means, and dictators want to spend on themselves beyond their means. No one seems particularly moved by the ensuing games of tug-or-war or their human cost. And so it goes.
2
I don't know where you are a tax attorney but I am glad you are not doing mine. Anyone 70 years of age in the USA who has had a career has been paying into the Social Security system since they started working. They should get what they paid for without people trying to weasel out of the system that they will surely cry for when they get to be 70. Not sure what you mean by paying to raise kids, and when you think about it the "double income/no kids" households are paying into the schools that you are sending little precious to.
5
A seventy year old in the US that never raised their own children nonetheless paid an awful lot towards educating the offspring of others, as well as paying into Social Security and Medicare. However, if you'd like to renegotiate the deal - the old folks will save up to pay for their own retirement and healthcare, and you're on your own with educating your kids - we might be able to work something out. You can refund all of the SS and Medicare i've paid in so far, and a solid chunk of my property taxes as well.
1
The problem is so easy to solve that a two year old could figure it out. When a nation is being invaded, in which this case it is, the military is brought out to protect the citizens of the nation. Then if the people who are invading the country try to still gain access, then they should be shot, plain and simple. This sounds like a very harsh judgment, but a few deaths at the border will stop them from coming for a good long time. Harsh measures need to be enforced to stop this, because these people are taking advantage of our good nature, and they have no intention of stopping. Shoot them, plain and simple, send their bodies back to their relatives in a bag. Problem solved instantly.
15
The philanthropies (such as the Ford Foundation and George Soros' foundation) that have been organizing those who came to the U.S. illegally to demand citizenship could instead help organize the illegals to return to their own countries to make demands of them. Mexico and the Central American countries have plenty of resources. Migrants need to go home to demand an end to corruption and to monopolies. They need to protest for access to family planning, better education, and for more open economies.
Otherwise, we will continue to have Mexicans and Central Americans slipping across our borders until our country becomes as impoverished as theirs.
Otherwise, we will continue to have Mexicans and Central Americans slipping across our borders until our country becomes as impoverished as theirs.
14
AT ONE TIME, we were all migrants, moving restlessly across the face of the Earth, burning, clearing, planting. The world is now much smaller than it once was, people are living in the cities, large machines rumble across our farmland where at one time many hands tended the soil.
Purpose.
We need purpose to have value. These migrants, fleeing abysmal poverty, can easily be understood. Who wouldn't. At home there is no purpose.
Their homelands are where Purpose should be developed. A large scale effort to increase oppourtunity in the homelands these migrants run from should be the long term answer of a United Europe. Short term answer, internment and return.
Purpose.
We need purpose to have value. These migrants, fleeing abysmal poverty, can easily be understood. Who wouldn't. At home there is no purpose.
Their homelands are where Purpose should be developed. A large scale effort to increase oppourtunity in the homelands these migrants run from should be the long term answer of a United Europe. Short term answer, internment and return.
It seems that a lot of this is the result of western imperialism. We propped up dictators who could assure our oil and didn't care about the fundamental instability we were creating.
We have a lot of deferred maintenance in the world.
We have a lot of deferred maintenance in the world.
5
This advent of activity and migration north of many 1,000's may preclude the deluge that could easily occur within the century. It is only a trickle right now. Given the trifecta combination of surging population growth, climate change and wars, expect not only the the continuation of migration but for it to enlarge rapidly. In other words, get used to it, for decades to come.
How our nation and other Western countries contain the potential human tide or tsunami is questionable. Can we even control it? And do we allow all who can arrive safely, remain forever?
How our nation and other Western countries contain the potential human tide or tsunami is questionable. Can we even control it? And do we allow all who can arrive safely, remain forever?
3
Uh, in case you missed it the "population explosion" never happened and is not happening now.
France and England collectively colonized most of Africa and collectively controlled most of the Middle East as mandates after WWI. To the extend that France and England ruled those places for decades if not centuries, I would say they share responsibility in how underdevloped these countries are. I understand France and England, in fact all of Europe, can not accept every migrant. But they should take a more pro-active approach. Because France and England aren't blameless and this migration isn't going to stop.
5
Those are some of the countries who have attempted to arm twist the Dominican Republic into accepting up to 2 million illegal migrant unskilled workers from Haiti. Just over a 100 years ago, those countries shared the world. All of the sudden, they ran out of colonies, and ran out of CASH!
3
No country today is really separate, sovereign, independent. Those times are long gone. Any person who believes that anyone, anywhere, has no responsibility to everyone else on Earth, is not doing their duty as a human being. This is consistent with God's teachings in The Bible, and to the most liberal of Progressives. Those nations who can help make all the world a desirable and functional place to live have a moral duty to do so. Let's put the past behind us and get started.
1
That's so super cool. Woo Hoo I don't have to pay my taxes, renew my passport, pay import duty, follow any laws I don't like or apply for visas. As long as it's in the bible or has the progressive stamp of approval it's all good.
Oh wait, yes reality still exists. Nevermind.
Oh wait, yes reality still exists. Nevermind.
1
Seems like I remember opposition to the "Chunnel" just for this reason, although the invaders are not whom we suspected they would be.
14
This great wave of South to North migration is a predictable result of global warming together with the ever increasing concentration of wealth in (and within) First World countries at the expense of the Third World. Thus the flow of wealth from the poor to the rich parts of the world parallels - and reinforces - the human flow from South to North.
The remedy? None until and unless we find solutions to both problems.
The remedy? None until and unless we find solutions to both problems.
4
"believe they are more likely to get housing (in GB) once they apply for asylum. "
A free ride on someone elses guinea, and those paying rent care not a farthing for the idea.
A free ride on someone elses guinea, and those paying rent care not a farthing for the idea.
17
"Cameron blamed what he called the cancer of corruption at the heart of low economic growth in poorer countries, which in turn led to some migrants wanting to leave their home countries and travel to the UK."
It is mathematically impossible for there to be enough jobs and other resources in countries with fertility rates in excess of 3 (and they are in excess of 4 in most of Africa and the Middle East, still in excess of 8 in many places, and were largely above 8 when many of these migrants were born).
The issue that paternity is inexpensively provable really needs to be acknowledged. Obama has failed at acknowledging this - and being candid in his recent trip to Africa of what his father's abandonment, his father having so many children was like for him. Maybe he doesn't realize all the charity it took by his extended family and by anonymous others to get him even where he is. It has become very visible now, did not do the constitutional homework he should have.
It needs to be understood that if you have more than 2 or 3 children, your children will have very hard lives, they will likely be unable to find employment, they will be in constant conflict.
If you are from a large family yourself, you may need to consolidate resources for investment in just a few children (i.e. some of the siblings might not want to have children and instead invest in their nieces and nephews).
It is mathematically impossible for there to be enough jobs and other resources in countries with fertility rates in excess of 3 (and they are in excess of 4 in most of Africa and the Middle East, still in excess of 8 in many places, and were largely above 8 when many of these migrants were born).
The issue that paternity is inexpensively provable really needs to be acknowledged. Obama has failed at acknowledging this - and being candid in his recent trip to Africa of what his father's abandonment, his father having so many children was like for him. Maybe he doesn't realize all the charity it took by his extended family and by anonymous others to get him even where he is. It has become very visible now, did not do the constitutional homework he should have.
It needs to be understood that if you have more than 2 or 3 children, your children will have very hard lives, they will likely be unable to find employment, they will be in constant conflict.
If you are from a large family yourself, you may need to consolidate resources for investment in just a few children (i.e. some of the siblings might not want to have children and instead invest in their nieces and nephews).
8
You decide: nations, borders, laws or None of the Above. The Obama Administration has given up as far as the US is concerned but perhaps the UK can actually maintain the Rule of Law.
19
Wrong about the Obama administration, it has deported more illegal immigrants than the Bush administration did. We haven't given up on preventing illegal immigration and deporting people, nor should Europe.
What does the UN do other than publish reports? Another crisis of illegal immigrants pouring in from corrupt, war torn, sexist countries and the UN is nowhere to be found. Instead of making this a UK/French problem, this is a North African and Middle Eastern problem what requires a regional response.
21
Cut this any way you want, this is an invasion. The invaders are not armed but they threaten the culture of these countries as if they were. Allow hundreds in and thousands will come. Allow thousands and millions will come. At what point does a society say "no more"? Britain can easily turn into a third world welfare state. But then being pragmatic is not politically acceptable, being compassionate is. But compassion has it's limits, which we'll soon reach, with dire consequences.
67
Steve captures the problem precisely. The late Sen. Dirksen put it this way:
"The mind is no match with the heart for persuasion; constitutionality is no match for compassion."
"The mind is no match with the heart for persuasion; constitutionality is no match for compassion."
Invasion is the correct word and there are words to describe those people who are willing to accept invasion, words such as traitors and quislings.
1
How much foresight did the warmongers have in the Kuwait war to destroy socialism? This 20 year upheaval in the mideast is a blip in history. Back to the dark ages everybody.
3
so Hussein was a socialist because he invaded Kuwait?
After reading this and similar articles, can one help but wonder what will happen when - perhaps not if - masses of poor stuck in a global system of marginalization simply storm the gates? Will the West simply gun them down, erect walls, and create the dystopian future portrayed in movies?
2
It's already happening, and here. They're called "Gated Communities"
Of course this is a "festering" crisis. Simply because it has been allowed to go on for so long.
And the real problem behind this is that human trafficking has become such a viable industry for so many, that there is has been no viable steps taken in effectively shutting it down.
There is no reason to believe that Europe can, or should, accommodate the hundreds of thousands rushing to its shores. And there comes a point when these African, Asian, and Middle East countries, must do more to repatriate their own citizens, and provide safe havens for them to live.
Of course countries like Syria, gripped by ongoing wars, should be given priority since they have basically become inhabitable. But those others, who are merely looking for financial relief in Europe, are slowly bound to find out that there is no relief, and that they are not welcome.
Of being here in the United States, we are spared much of this reality because the Atlantic Ocean, and very stringent immigration laws makes it almost impossible for most migrants to enter. But under the terms of the 'Dublin Regulation' and the "Schengen Agreement', Europe is being flooded with more immigrants than it could ever possibly hope to handle. And unless things change, it's likely to get worse, before it gets better.
And the real problem behind this is that human trafficking has become such a viable industry for so many, that there is has been no viable steps taken in effectively shutting it down.
There is no reason to believe that Europe can, or should, accommodate the hundreds of thousands rushing to its shores. And there comes a point when these African, Asian, and Middle East countries, must do more to repatriate their own citizens, and provide safe havens for them to live.
Of course countries like Syria, gripped by ongoing wars, should be given priority since they have basically become inhabitable. But those others, who are merely looking for financial relief in Europe, are slowly bound to find out that there is no relief, and that they are not welcome.
Of being here in the United States, we are spared much of this reality because the Atlantic Ocean, and very stringent immigration laws makes it almost impossible for most migrants to enter. But under the terms of the 'Dublin Regulation' and the "Schengen Agreement', Europe is being flooded with more immigrants than it could ever possibly hope to handle. And unless things change, it's likely to get worse, before it gets better.
11
Ever read that children’s book? What happens when you let a cat into your house, you have to feed it, with cream, and tasty tuna, and provide a bed, and give it a bath, and a name, and and and … and at the end the kid is sorry he even tried. It’s similar here.
These people do not show up, and want to get a job, settled, assimilate and become born again Europeans. They come in for the free food, house, clothing, money; refuse to assimilate, continue to behave like at home. Before you know it, they are supplying money and recruits back home to fight for whatever faction they support. On top of having babies, lots and lots of babies. If you want them to leave, no you can’t.
The solution is to help them make a better home, at home. If your home is in order, and prosperous, you seldom want to leave. This is what they should work at. And this is what we should help them do this.
These people do not show up, and want to get a job, settled, assimilate and become born again Europeans. They come in for the free food, house, clothing, money; refuse to assimilate, continue to behave like at home. Before you know it, they are supplying money and recruits back home to fight for whatever faction they support. On top of having babies, lots and lots of babies. If you want them to leave, no you can’t.
The solution is to help them make a better home, at home. If your home is in order, and prosperous, you seldom want to leave. This is what they should work at. And this is what we should help them do this.
48
multi-culturalism has proven a failure no matter where it has been practiced. There are far too many deluded individuals who do not see this.
1
"Shark" in Manhattan: How do you know these things you indicate in your middle paragraph to be true? They seem like assumptions rather than facts. Bear in mind that assimilation is something that takes a generation or two. When I attended high school outside Reading, Pa., there was still a German language newspaper published for those who had come from German (many) but had not fully learned English. Those born in foreign nations usually stay mainly foreign while those born in the new country of their parents generally want to fit in, when they can.
1
Diane's comment below is quite correct: this is a case of our very imbalanced world. That world is going to become even more imbalanced as climate change and its various impacts produce not millions but tens or hundreds of millions of Third World refugees over the century to come. They may be good people, but there will simply be too many to absorb.
If the First World is to remain the haven of prosperity and civilization it now is--if our life boat is not to be swamped--then we are going to have to adopt some hard-hearted "uncivilized" attitudes to repel that human wave of refugees whose sheer numbers would destroy us.
That begins with a French police/army sweep of the Calais refugee camp to incarcerate/deport them all. It begins with a European military undertaking (which Europe is already contemplating) to destroy ships in Libya, which is now a major source of refugees. It begins by a tightening of Europe's outer borders or else the termination of the Schevingen visa-free arrangements in inner Europe. And, in the US, it begins with amnesty for most of the 11 million illegal immigrants already here but the establishment of a tamper-proof national identity card linked closely to eligibility for employment.
If the First World is to remain the haven of prosperity and civilization it now is--if our life boat is not to be swamped--then we are going to have to adopt some hard-hearted "uncivilized" attitudes to repel that human wave of refugees whose sheer numbers would destroy us.
That begins with a French police/army sweep of the Calais refugee camp to incarcerate/deport them all. It begins with a European military undertaking (which Europe is already contemplating) to destroy ships in Libya, which is now a major source of refugees. It begins by a tightening of Europe's outer borders or else the termination of the Schevingen visa-free arrangements in inner Europe. And, in the US, it begins with amnesty for most of the 11 million illegal immigrants already here but the establishment of a tamper-proof national identity card linked closely to eligibility for employment.
15
"It begins with a European military undertaking (which Europe is already contemplating) to destroy ships in Libya, which is now a major source of refugees. It begins by a tightening of Europe's outer borders or else the termination of the Schevingen visa-free arrangements in inner Europe. And, in the US, it begins with amnesty for most of the 11 million illegal immigrants already here but the establishment of a tamper-proof national identity card linked closely to eligibility for employment. "
marc, are you saying that all people "of color" should be permitted unrestricted access to europe? Also, why do you not blame civil war in their nations? Rapid population growth due to unchecked births? You do realize that most of these societies view birth control as evil and "racist", correct? You do realize that many heads of states in sub saharan nations (i.e., South Africa, Zimbabwe, among others) have many wives, correct?
You really, really need to start putting blame where it is due. Not in European "racism" but in the conditions and culture of the nations the immigrants come from.
marc, are you saying that all people "of color" should be permitted unrestricted access to europe? Also, why do you not blame civil war in their nations? Rapid population growth due to unchecked births? You do realize that most of these societies view birth control as evil and "racist", correct? You do realize that many heads of states in sub saharan nations (i.e., South Africa, Zimbabwe, among others) have many wives, correct?
You really, really need to start putting blame where it is due. Not in European "racism" but in the conditions and culture of the nations the immigrants come from.
3
If I were there, I would certainly try to get out.
3
This is another episode in the unfolding collapse of western civilization. Western medicine has allowed populations to soar worldwide while western capitalism and imperialism have created an underdeveloped world unable to provide a decent standard of living in regions such as Africa and southwestern Asia. Violence and unrest have proliferated in these regions, much as it did on the steppes of Central Asia before the steppe dwellers and their victims overran the classical empires of Rome and Han China. We are seeing the beginnings of a similar mass migration into Europe. Europe's affluence (and that of North America) are unsustainable in the long run, but these migrations will accelerate the collapse over the next few decades.
15
"western capitalism and imperialism have created an underdeveloped world unable to provide a decent standard of living in regions such as Africa and southwestern Asia. "
nations like SIngapore, Japan, South Korea (not the North), Taiwan, CHina have made capitalism work for them. Other nations, like most in Africa, have not. THis is for many reasons (i.e., culture, beliefs in high birthrates, etc.). You should also be viewing these facts too.
nations like SIngapore, Japan, South Korea (not the North), Taiwan, CHina have made capitalism work for them. Other nations, like most in Africa, have not. THis is for many reasons (i.e., culture, beliefs in high birthrates, etc.). You should also be viewing these facts too.
3
It is only by immediate deportation that the issue can be solved. Human rights concern must be ignored. Although most are probably economic migrants all will claim asylum - these claims must be ignored and not investigated. Instead everyone must be deported. ANy claim must be processed outside of Europe.
If you don't know where the people come from due to their destruction of documents just fly them back to Libya (wherever it is safe for a plane to land) and unload them there.
It is only when words gets around that all arrivals in the UK from Calais will be immediately deported will this invasions stop.
The French have a duty too. It is up to them to break up the migrants camps using the army if necessary. 3000 migrants is enough to cause damage and harm to inhabitants and workers at the tunnel. The French would be wise to pick up as many as possible and fly them back to N. Africa. Once the word gets out the migrants will disappear from the area.
This is another version of the Australian plan and since that works, a variant of will work also. The migrants must learn that they cannot get asylum in the UK and the only result will be deportation. The deportation must be swift and not allow for any appeals from deportation. Make it a crime and deport criminals. These are not asylum seekers they are economic migrants wanting to take advantage of the UK's generous welfare system.
If you don't know where the people come from due to their destruction of documents just fly them back to Libya (wherever it is safe for a plane to land) and unload them there.
It is only when words gets around that all arrivals in the UK from Calais will be immediately deported will this invasions stop.
The French have a duty too. It is up to them to break up the migrants camps using the army if necessary. 3000 migrants is enough to cause damage and harm to inhabitants and workers at the tunnel. The French would be wise to pick up as many as possible and fly them back to N. Africa. Once the word gets out the migrants will disappear from the area.
This is another version of the Australian plan and since that works, a variant of will work also. The migrants must learn that they cannot get asylum in the UK and the only result will be deportation. The deportation must be swift and not allow for any appeals from deportation. Make it a crime and deport criminals. These are not asylum seekers they are economic migrants wanting to take advantage of the UK's generous welfare system.
52
Do these wandering souls get food and water? Or should they just be herded into cattle cars and leaking ships?
2
Classic 21st century response - ignore human rights. Sad.
2
Yeah, those nasty people trying to live. Lets just machine gun them all as they come over. We could just step on the babies.
2
Failure to control the out of control immigration will pave the way for,vast civil unrest and the rise of an extremist leader. It happens every time a society is significantly disrupted.
28
The sad thing is that Europe is only experiencing the tip of the iceberg. Beyond Europe, in Lebanon, Iran, Egypt, Libya and other poorer countries, the refugee crisis is even worse. While Europe is seeing an increase in refugees form the war in Syria, Turkey and Lebanon now have millions of Syrian and other refugees living within their borders in camps. Unless there is some solution to the Middle Eastern crisis soon, it looks like these will become permanent settlements for refugees like the camps on Pakistan's and Iran's borders with Afghanistan.
Displaced people are a result of wars and upheavals and if nothing is done to resolve the root of the problem, then they will keep coming to any place that they think offers safety. Ironically the ones coming to Europe are probably the best educated and richest as they can afford higher trafficking fees. This is not a reason to allow them to stay, however, as that will only increase the tide of refugees but it is a reason to get together with all countries affected by the refugee crisis to agree a solution.
Similarly here in the US, it was the wrong decision of the Obama administration to allow the minors who were trafficked up from Central America and Mexico to stay in camps in the US. A better solution would be transnational talks with the Central American nations and their neighbors to tackle the issues that are driving migrants to come to the US in the first place.
Displaced people are a result of wars and upheavals and if nothing is done to resolve the root of the problem, then they will keep coming to any place that they think offers safety. Ironically the ones coming to Europe are probably the best educated and richest as they can afford higher trafficking fees. This is not a reason to allow them to stay, however, as that will only increase the tide of refugees but it is a reason to get together with all countries affected by the refugee crisis to agree a solution.
Similarly here in the US, it was the wrong decision of the Obama administration to allow the minors who were trafficked up from Central America and Mexico to stay in camps in the US. A better solution would be transnational talks with the Central American nations and their neighbors to tackle the issues that are driving migrants to come to the US in the first place.
7
You mean transnational solutions or , at least attempts at solutions, like NAFTA?
If you think the migration issue is bad now, wait until climate change creates mega-droughts and famine, while our species continues to increase by 100 million individuals every year.
68
Might be necessary to plug the Chunnels. This is a very good point.
populations in the less developed nations really need to start using birth control. This is the solution. yet they refuse too. Many leaders of sub-saharan nations hav more than one wife for example. They criticize the west for telling them to control their population growth rates.
They need to be corrected. BUt doing so will, surely, lead to the Westerner being labeled racist.
They need to be corrected. BUt doing so will, surely, lead to the Westerner being labeled racist.
Anyone who thinks these people are an invading scourge should just toss the NYT travel/real estate sections (and perhaps start reading the rest of the Times). There is absolutely no reason why a Frenchman or a Brit has a divine right to drive thru a tunnel across a border in minutes, fly to a private foreign beach, or have a "second home" just for a change in scenery. Everyone deserves a change of scenery, and a chance for a better life, no matter what their country of origin or economic level. If you think otherwise, you might want to think about whether you really want to "go back where you came from". It's fair to say most New Yorkers came here for better wages, better food, and better living conditions, starting with the Dutch.
7
@izzy. seattle
And does that include the New Yorkers who came here in chains???...
And does that include the New Yorkers who came here in chains???...
1
Migration into the US in the early part of the twentieth century was regulated. Visit Ellis Island in New York harbor. Plenty of immigrants were sent back if they did not meet certain health criteria.
39
I do not understand why the EU, with NATO support, won't carve out safe havens in those failed middle eastern countries whose populations are running from murder, famine and war. A start seems to have been made by Turkey along its border with Syria, but much more is needed. Why won't the EU do something so that these desperate people won't have to run? Why? I don't get it. Why do they only twiddle their collective thumbs while hungry refugees accumulate on their doorsteps?
4
@Willie, Louisiana
The real question is, why don't some of these countries carve out safe havens themselves? There is no sovereign nation on earth that is legally responsible for nationals other than its own.
The real question is, why don't some of these countries carve out safe havens themselves? There is no sovereign nation on earth that is legally responsible for nationals other than its own.
I was impressed by the understated possibility that this mass migration may have been 'fueled by conflicts' in the region. You Think? Remember a few years back....before the mass exodus...when the fools who led in the destruction of Libya were bellowing their triumphant victory. Sarkozy, Cameron, and the ever clueless Obama supported by his lovely Secretary of State (we came, we saw, he died) Well they destroyed the economic keystone of North Africa. Brilliant. The now sore beset and woe-be-gone citizens of France and the UK can wallow in the mess they created for themselves. America per usual, pays no penalty and walks away. Surely the Europeans bear no grudge.
9
A new source of cheap labor for Britain. Open the floodgates and let them in, those who want to work! Hasn't it always been like this? Donald Trump would send them to the U.S. via chartered plane to staff his vast empire while firing those making above minimum wage.
1
These are the people who want to work. They want to live under fair laws. They do not want to join militias, take up arms, or live under corrupt governance. Whether they are treated fairly or poorly by the world's wealthiest nations will effect the future of both the richest and poorest countries. I believe the huddled masses who are trying to achieve a better life should be treated well, and not tossed into squalid conditions.
8
How many of them have you talked to? There are all kinds in the mix. The lazy and the ambitious, the radicalized and the unbelievers, the oppressed and the apolitical. Doesn't matter. There is no obligation for any country to take the displaced; that is realpolitik.
3
@swm, providence
I regret to inform you that plenty has changed in the world since you last looked in your crystal ball. Things are not that rosy. In several European countries the growing populations of immigrant communities are anything but benevolent, and there is a growing backlash against them for just this reason.
I regret to inform you that plenty has changed in the world since you last looked in your crystal ball. Things are not that rosy. In several European countries the growing populations of immigrant communities are anything but benevolent, and there is a growing backlash against them for just this reason.
4
It's enlightening to read a fair number of xenophobic commentators on this refugee crisis. I trust none of them hail from immigrant families and have never permitted a Mexican without proper papers hang drywall in their houses....
14
Well doc, most of my ancestors got to America before it was the U.S., and I've never hired an illegal immigrant for anything. But you conflate a few things here. Xenophobia is fear of the unknown, and I don't fear swarms of refugees, I just don't think they should be allowed to break all laws, go where they please, and be parasites on productive citizenry. Also none of these refugees are Mexican, it would be really weird to have illegal immigrant Mexicans trying to get from France into England.
But the basic thing is, illegal immigration is a crime and it can't be tolerated. If we were decrying shoplifting, would you claim we were all xenophobes for fearing shoplifters, and that some of our ancestors must have pocketed goods without paying, and that we've probably hired shoplifters?
Illegal immigration is wrong and defense of it is wrongheaded, and that's all there is to it, regardless of name-calling.
But the basic thing is, illegal immigration is a crime and it can't be tolerated. If we were decrying shoplifting, would you claim we were all xenophobes for fearing shoplifters, and that some of our ancestors must have pocketed goods without paying, and that we've probably hired shoplifters?
Illegal immigration is wrong and defense of it is wrongheaded, and that's all there is to it, regardless of name-calling.
16
@the doctor Allentown, pa
With all due respect, I suggest that you go to Europe and see for yourself.
With all due respect, I suggest that you go to Europe and see for yourself.
5
I agree. But considering the fact that illegal immigrants have driven US citizens out of these fields where, exactly, are you going to find them to put up the drywall. What US citizen will work for less than the min. wage?
7
Why must Western Europe give these people refuge. Must the citizens pay more in taxes to deal with these invaders?
50
You are so right! Europe should deport them to their country of origin so that they can starve to death or be murdered out of the view of white people.
2
Dear Sue, may I remind you that these "invaders" are human beings just like you, but without your luck and worldly advantages.
2
Well the invaders are not as well-armed as the defenders of the homeland. So the final solution won't require too much by way of taxes. Of course solutions that reflect the best of Western values might cost more.
We really shouldn't be at all surprised by what is happening. We live in a very imbalanced world of haves and have nots and we're seeing how an imbalance corrects itself. There will be more. Read world history. Nothing is static, nothing remains unchanged down through the decades, the centuries. Everything rises and everything falls. Years hence some other generation will look at these times to the wisdom of hindsight and see what we missed until too late, what could have been done. What can we do now? Get on the other side of the table and see what the migrant sees.
7
The migrant sees money and food. Nothing else - so much so that they are willing to do anything to get it.
1
The problem with denial about over-breeding is that the human face of the population pressure crisis is gut wrenching. Is there a Liberal response?
20
A "Liberal" response? Huh? Who is it that opposes birth control and abortion?
Which party in Congress is currently trying to defund Planned Parenthood? And which President stopped funding of UN population control agencies? I'll answer the last one for you. It was Bush II.
Which party in Congress is currently trying to defund Planned Parenthood? And which President stopped funding of UN population control agencies? I'll answer the last one for you. It was Bush II.
11
Briefly put, Liberals tend to be for birth control.
2
How is this a "Liberal" or "conservative" caused problem?
1
Sorry, but a good number of these migrants who are currently flooding Western Europe have no respect for European culture or traditions. I hate to say this and I know it sounds horrid, but they are ruining the beautiful cities of Europe and lowering the quality of life. Not only that, they have no intention of integrating or becoming French, or German or Spanish. We are just two different peoples with different priorities and ways of thinking.
97
It has always been thus in the U.S. Immigrants settle into big city enclaves that closely resemble their home countries but, over the decades, are slowly assimilated into the wider culture. Once again, the accident of geography protects the United States from the full impact of this particular crisis.
Betti, They will learn this lesson in time, the hard way.
1
@Betti , New York
"The truth is often unpopular."
--- Adlai Stevenson
"The truth is often unpopular."
--- Adlai Stevenson
1
“I have every sympathy with holidaymakers who are finding access to Calais difficult because of the disturbances there, and we will do everything we can to work with the French to bring these things to a conclusion,” Mr. Cameron said..."
That pretty much sums up the ruling-class attitude toward how to solve this problem of their own making (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria wars; support to corrupt dictators, etc.). Apparently, it also sums up the attitude of most of the commenters here so far. The world has more than enough wealth and resources to allow everyone a better life, but the few who have stolen all that wealth care nothing about humanity, only their profits.
That pretty much sums up the ruling-class attitude toward how to solve this problem of their own making (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria wars; support to corrupt dictators, etc.). Apparently, it also sums up the attitude of most of the commenters here so far. The world has more than enough wealth and resources to allow everyone a better life, but the few who have stolen all that wealth care nothing about humanity, only their profits.
8
Yep. I was so glad to learn that David Cameron has every sympathy with holidaymakers whose VACATIONS have been DELAYED!!! Possibly by HOURS!!! This is a travesty. Someone should start a charity...
And the decreasing middle doesn't want to pay on behalf of the country-less rich, thank you very much.
@Jonesy Novato, CA
That quotation from Prime Minister Cameron also applies to the hundreds of working-class folks who can't afford to just jet-set across the Channel, and whose holidays are often confined to camping spots --- it is also their hard-earned wages, and taxes that are keeping charities like Oxfam alive.
Not everybody who goes on holiday in Europe is a millionaire.
That quotation from Prime Minister Cameron also applies to the hundreds of working-class folks who can't afford to just jet-set across the Channel, and whose holidays are often confined to camping spots --- it is also their hard-earned wages, and taxes that are keeping charities like Oxfam alive.
Not everybody who goes on holiday in Europe is a millionaire.
1
The Refugee Convention of 1951 and 1967 Protocol needs to be revisited. It was designed for a different time. Even my bank makes amendments and changes to my account agreement. Time for an update.
18
What we are seeing here are the effects of overpopulation. We already have way more people on this earth than it can reasonably handle. The developed countries(Europe. North America, Japan) already have birthrates that do not go beyond replacement levels. We must make birth control widely available in the African countries with out of control birth rates.
40
In addition to birth control, conditions in the unsafe countries need to be addressed. If you have ten children and expect only two of them will survive then you'll have ten. If you believe your two children will survive perhaps you'll have just two?
25
I agree with both of your statements.
However, I would add a third; education of girls. Time and time again education of girls lead to them having fewer children when they become women. Investment in all three would pay off, especially as I believe we are seeing some environmental migration and I believe that will grow over the coming decades as people flee degraded environments due to climate change and desertification.
However, I would add a third; education of girls. Time and time again education of girls lead to them having fewer children when they become women. Investment in all three would pay off, especially as I believe we are seeing some environmental migration and I believe that will grow over the coming decades as people flee degraded environments due to climate change and desertification.
6
Islam does not allow women to control their bodies, as their bodies belong to their husbands and male relatives.
Next idea?
Next idea?
7
Those that have been gathering in Calais are the most able bodied, with no dependents holding them back as they move towards the UK. A number of families that have made it across the sea are still in Greece and Italy for the most part, since they have children and elderly that cannot move quickly from country to country on foot. If these individuals in Calais are allowed to push their way through to the UK, when they shouldn't have been allowed to travel undocumented to France in the first place, what does that say to others seeking asylum? That survival of the fittest is the rule to getting admission to stay in the country of your choice? What these migrants who are engaging in aggressive entry tactics at the Channel are attempting is no different than behavior displayed during disasters, when provisions trucks pull into deprived areas. The strongest push to the front while the weakest and neediest are shoved to the back to hope that some little bit will be left for them.
16
They may have to shut down and seal the tunnels, thus prompting an economic disaster for Europe.
The US needs a definitive immigration policy NOW to avert the calamity previewed in Europe.
20
For people who say the West should welcome people to escape from poor, war torn countries: who is going to stay and fix the poor and war torn countries?
Especially as these immigrants bring with them ideas that made the other countries poor and war torn in the first place. They reject Western concepts of tolerance, and insist on enforcing the very same bad ideas that made the countries they are fleeing from so weak and ineffective.
Tolerance of intolerance is really just an extension of intolerance: you are aiding it's spread.
By the same token, intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself.
"People who are not my religion are subhuman" is not the same as "I stand against you *only because* you consider people not of your religion subhuman." Any enforcement of tolerant ideas against intolerance does not automatically become the same thing as the intolerance you are trying to oppose. It's not logically coherent to call the opposition to intolerance the same thing as intolerance.
"We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."
- Karl Popper, 'The Open Society and Its Enemies'
Especially as these immigrants bring with them ideas that made the other countries poor and war torn in the first place. They reject Western concepts of tolerance, and insist on enforcing the very same bad ideas that made the countries they are fleeing from so weak and ineffective.
Tolerance of intolerance is really just an extension of intolerance: you are aiding it's spread.
By the same token, intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself.
"People who are not my religion are subhuman" is not the same as "I stand against you *only because* you consider people not of your religion subhuman." Any enforcement of tolerant ideas against intolerance does not automatically become the same thing as the intolerance you are trying to oppose. It's not logically coherent to call the opposition to intolerance the same thing as intolerance.
"We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."
- Karl Popper, 'The Open Society and Its Enemies'
29
Immigrants are escaping, not bringing, the ideas that made their countries poor. Otherwise, they will only stay and die. And then who will be left? They can return and rebuild their countries when the war is done, if the war is ever done.
1
That is just what other Americans said about the Jews, Polish, Eastern Europeans, Italians and Irish when they immigrated to this country.
You make some assumptions about the values and character of the immigrants that are not supported by facts. Without showing facts to support your assumptions are you perhaps intolerant?
2
Birth control is the only intelligent answer here.
63
if about 20 years too late....
1
Birth control is not allowed in Muslim countries.
1
The Middle East is at war with itself, as are many parts of Africa. Simply apprehending and sending migrants back certainly won't solve anyone's problems. It's only going to get worse and more desperate.
Europe and the US are not blameless with regard to the havoc in the Middle East; taking in refugees is the least a western nation can do. No you can't take everyone and you must regulate, and not everyone will get fair treatment, but you've got to make room for the world's problems. You can't just shove them away.
Europe and the US are not blameless with regard to the havoc in the Middle East; taking in refugees is the least a western nation can do. No you can't take everyone and you must regulate, and not everyone will get fair treatment, but you've got to make room for the world's problems. You can't just shove them away.
3
"The Middle East is at war with itself, as are many parts of Africa'...and they always have been and probably always will be. That does not mean the rest of the world has to or can absorb them.
6
Can I be a liberal and still oppose this kind of cynical "migration and asylum seeking"?
Can I be a liberal and still oppose Trump but still believe we need to better control our borders and develop coherent immigration policies?
Can I be a liberal support secure well managed borders and still oppose hypocritical Republicans who tacitly support illegal immigration when it can provide cheap labor and who vociferously oppose it when it can provide cheap votes?
Can I be a liberal and still oppose Trump but still believe we need to better control our borders and develop coherent immigration policies?
Can I be a liberal support secure well managed borders and still oppose hypocritical Republicans who tacitly support illegal immigration when it can provide cheap labor and who vociferously oppose it when it can provide cheap votes?
89
For the better part of the 19th and 20th century the Western world was dedicated only to profiting as much as it possilby could from Africa Asia and Middle Eastern countries. They drew up borders that meant nothing to these people and plundered and pilliaged all they could. Now they are surprised when these people who's countries they destroyed so long ago arrive at their doorstep hungry and in need of help.
155
The people from Africa that is arriving into Europe, had not been born during that time period. These are new people, and they should be trying to make a better country for themselves, not stating that they are illegal immigrants now because of actions done a 100 years ago.
19
Every group of humans did this. The Zulu did it to all the surrounding tribes in Africa. The Maori annihilated their close relatives on the Chatham Islands. The Khan empire did it to all of Asia and most of Europe.
Blaming Europeans as the only rapacious plunderers around is racist. All humans do this, and these refugees are fleeing people in their own countries, not Europeans.
Blaming Europeans as the only rapacious plunderers around is racist. All humans do this, and these refugees are fleeing people in their own countries, not Europeans.
49
If the western world was only dedicated to what you claimed it was dedicated to it would not be a place that everyone in the world wants to come.
5
I fear the west will have to devote more resources (militarily and otherwise) to somehow temper, if not stabilize, the violent misery in the middle east and Africa. A part of this is of our own making and must be managed with more robust action. The U.S., separated by an ocean from these desperate refugees, should lead the initiative as world leader. Sooner better than later.
3
This article immediately dehumanizes the migrants by describing their existential plight as a "festering" crisis.
From the online Free Dictionary, definitions of festering:
1.venomous, vicious, smouldering, virulent, black-hearted; recrimination and festering resentment
2. septic, infected, poisonous, inflamed, pussy, suppurating, ulcerated, purulent, maturating, gathering afflicted by festering sores
3. rotting, decaying, decomposing, putrefying The cobbles were littered with festering garbage.
Words matter, New York Times. This type of coded language gives credence to Donald Trump-style xenophobia.
Meanwhile, David Cameron wrings his delicate hands over the delays being suffered by affluent vacationers.
Where's the pity? Where's the empathy? Where are the prosecutions of the Bush-era war criminals who created this whole human catastrophe in the first place?
From the online Free Dictionary, definitions of festering:
1.venomous, vicious, smouldering, virulent, black-hearted; recrimination and festering resentment
2. septic, infected, poisonous, inflamed, pussy, suppurating, ulcerated, purulent, maturating, gathering afflicted by festering sores
3. rotting, decaying, decomposing, putrefying The cobbles were littered with festering garbage.
Words matter, New York Times. This type of coded language gives credence to Donald Trump-style xenophobia.
Meanwhile, David Cameron wrings his delicate hands over the delays being suffered by affluent vacationers.
Where's the pity? Where's the empathy? Where are the prosecutions of the Bush-era war criminals who created this whole human catastrophe in the first place?
44
Ms Garcia:
Would you write the se same words if instead happening in Britain/Europe if there were 3500 migrants coming into New Paltz, New York in 2 days and nights?
How many of these mostly young men from Africa and the Middle East would you take into your home as evidence of your empathy?
And how about if the cops in New Paltz had turned away 37,000 of these young men in the last year? Would you have cried in your pity and said they should be allowed to stay???
Its easy for us here in America, insulated by 2 oceans, to criticize Europeans for turning away immigrants. Makes us feel sooo Christian. But in our back yard? No way.
Please refraiin for any more hypocrisy in your comments.
Realist Liberal
Would you write the se same words if instead happening in Britain/Europe if there were 3500 migrants coming into New Paltz, New York in 2 days and nights?
How many of these mostly young men from Africa and the Middle East would you take into your home as evidence of your empathy?
And how about if the cops in New Paltz had turned away 37,000 of these young men in the last year? Would you have cried in your pity and said they should be allowed to stay???
Its easy for us here in America, insulated by 2 oceans, to criticize Europeans for turning away immigrants. Makes us feel sooo Christian. But in our back yard? No way.
Please refraiin for any more hypocrisy in your comments.
Realist Liberal
16
You forgot to add Obama with the destabilization of Libya and Syria. Might as well include all the players to be fair.
2
Dear "Realist Liberal" Meat or Sock Puppet,
I actually have sheltered a refugee family of four in my home, and would do it again. Because they gave me so much more than what little I was able to share with them.
By the way, my little town is nowhere near the size of Great Britain, so your criticism is extremely silly on its face.
You're about as liberal as Donald Trump. For all I know, you ARE Donald Trump.
You might think you have "open eyes," but your heart seems to be stuck in lock-down mode. But. I guess as long as you've got yours, everything's hunky-dory.
Love & peace,
Me in my back yard.
I actually have sheltered a refugee family of four in my home, and would do it again. Because they gave me so much more than what little I was able to share with them.
By the way, my little town is nowhere near the size of Great Britain, so your criticism is extremely silly on its face.
You're about as liberal as Donald Trump. For all I know, you ARE Donald Trump.
You might think you have "open eyes," but your heart seems to be stuck in lock-down mode. But. I guess as long as you've got yours, everything's hunky-dory.
Love & peace,
Me in my back yard.
2
Round them all up, deport them all, stop paying benefits to people who are there illegally.
When is Europe -- and the U.S. -- going to learn?
When is Europe -- and the U.S. -- going to learn?
186
The only "benefit" they're getting - here or there - is life.
Yes, when will you white folks learn your real history. You are the original invaders of Europe. You stormed my Black ancestors lands. You attacked our castles. You were and still are envious of the Black peoples glorious history. So much so that you stole our civilizations and claimed them as your on. After you complete committed genocide all over Europe. Get it right. Africa is on the Move! Ethiopia, Kush, Egypt, Sumner,Etruscan, Greece, Persia, Rome, Holy Roman Empire, all African civilizations.
Learn Apparently, never. This is THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS--off the pages of futuristic fiction, onto The New York Times. Where is Churchill, where is DeGaulle? Of course, this does have more than a slight resemblance to Obama's approach to our borders.
1
Britain should have soldiers waiting for these illegals when they exit the Chunnel, round them up, put them in boats under guard and ship them back home, and I don't mean France. Let them start an uprising in their home countries and change things there, stop mooching off of others and do something about your plight.
180
Don't forget the white people are the historical invader of Europe. Learn your history. You white folks have been living in a world that has you hemmed in with lies and fear of your origins. Wake up! "He or she who doesn't know the past 2000 years of history is living in the dark." Mario Puzo
It didn't work for we Africans when the whites were storming into our Europe. All you did was keep coming. Luckily for you the African people are coming back n Peace, not bringing war; as the nomadic whites did when they came to Europe.
1
A disgusting sentiment. Congratulations for your entitled selfishness for something you did absolutely nothing to earn, and clearly do not deserve.
These migrant men are very determined and clever. Wouldn't it be great if they took that same determination and ingenuity back to their home countries and fought for a better life there.
240
That would require an effort, why do that when they can mooch of of their host countries?
9
Yes, wouldn't it. Except circumstances and instability make this all but impossible.
"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!"
The obvious question here is where are the French police?
65
Heading in numbers to Calais, apparently. breaking news and all that....
It's funny how "Europeans" are upset about the migrations of Africans Back to Europe! That's right I said it back to Europe! African people are the original people of Europe. We have lived in Europe for over 40,000 consecutive years. The Whites just arrived about 1500 years ago. You whites were the ones storming into Europe! From the plains of Western Asia, I.e., the caucus mountainous area. You were horse riding nomads. From the time you've come to Europe you've been raging war against the indigenous Europeans, Black people. Check your genetic studies. It's a well known genetic fact that African DNA predates "white" DNA by thousands of years in Europe. We were the original Kings and Queens of Europe! All of it. English people check your ancient records of who your "Royals" really are. Maybe now we can put this "immigration" issue in better, more, humble focus. Don't throw stones, when you live in a glass house.
1
Stonehenge was built between 3000 and 2000 BC. It is prehistoric. It was not built by Asians or Africans.
83
Where do you come up with these misinformed ideas? Do you just make them up to fit a race based narrative that whites are all bad and Africans are victims?
22
Sioban, if you have figures out who built stonehendge or thr skin tone of the purpoted druids please, publish your findings. While I don't really care for the original poster contrary to klan teaching, non-white civilizations have been far more successful pre Industrian age.
1
What could possibly go wrong when millions of young uneducated unskilled Muslims males arrive in a First World country en masse and demand refugee status with all the 'free' social services that go with it?
Look to every civilized country that has allowed these mass migrations to see the inevitable outcome.
Safe to assume that neither a sense of gratitude or an interest in assimilating into the culture of the host country by the refugees will have any part in it.
Look to every civilized country that has allowed these mass migrations to see the inevitable outcome.
Safe to assume that neither a sense of gratitude or an interest in assimilating into the culture of the host country by the refugees will have any part in it.
234
Your right! When millions of unskilled white people stormed into Europe around 1500 years ago, it was disastrous for the indigenous Black Europeans.
1
Dear Kheop07,
Just a correction, again, there never were indigenous Black Europeans, except for the southernmost area of Spain.
Just a correction, again, there never were indigenous Black Europeans, except for the southernmost area of Spain.
12
Sarcasm at it's best!
I'd think fire hoses would be able to keep them away. Or some electrified fencing, or if worst comes to worst, machine guns. Migrants don't just get to go wherever they please, settle in without paying taxes, and live without any connections to the nations they invade. And the world needs a lot less humans, so humans' lives are nowhere near as sacred as they were a century ago. Gotta toughen up folks, and we can't save everyone anymore.
46
Britain & France certainly took over most of the refugees' countries, and made a bloody mess of it - literally. I can see how people would look at how the Europeans invaded most of the world, and would hate to have done unto them as they did unto others.
Next, we kick the Normans out - and Native America for the Native Americans!
Next, we kick the Normans out - and Native America for the Native Americans!
1
I'd trade one of them for 20 of you, that's for sure. We'd get more honest and honorable work out of them than you.
Especially since the 1 own all the lifeboats.
I hope that part of this discussion is an end to demonizing Western / European culture. If it's so lousy, why is everyone trying to get to Europe, the US, Australia, and other such places?
There is much to be criticized about Western culture--but a lot of that is historical. And there is certainly a lot that needs to be done to improve them.
But in terms of stability, safety, respect for the law, education, ability to care for their populations--these are the places people want to go to.
If the poor and miserable of the world have no trouble seeing the good that Western / European societies offer, why is it considered some form of liberal heresy for those living in those countries to see it the same way?
There is much to be criticized about Western culture--but a lot of that is historical. And there is certainly a lot that needs to be done to improve them.
But in terms of stability, safety, respect for the law, education, ability to care for their populations--these are the places people want to go to.
If the poor and miserable of the world have no trouble seeing the good that Western / European societies offer, why is it considered some form of liberal heresy for those living in those countries to see it the same way?
217
Yah, sure; Western culture is pretty good, when it's not Honey Boo Boo. It's unregulated capitalism that is not perfect and could use some, you know, regulation.
"'For years and years all that man thought he had that made him any better than his black brothers was the color of his skin. He was just as dirty, he smelled just as bad, he was just as poor. Nowadays he's got more than he ever had in his life, he has everything but breeding, he's freed himself from every stigma, but he sits nursing his hangover of hatred..."
- Jack Finch (Go Set a Watchman, Harper Lee)
- Jack Finch (Go Set a Watchman, Harper Lee)
"If it's so lousy, why is everyone trying to get to Europe, the US, Australia, and other such places?"
Really? No one's coming to these countries for their culture. What drives people there is economic in nature. Additionally, if you spoke to these people, then you would know a majority of them miss their families at home as well as their own cultures.
"If the poor and miserable of the world have no trouble seeing the good that Western / European societies offer, why is it considered some form of liberal heresy for those living in those countries to see it the same way?"
The liberals emphasize economic and social equality as well as restraint from extorting economically and militarily weaker countries. I do not see how you are combining their point of view with that of the "poor and miserable" (which is a terrible wording by the way).
In the future, I suggest thing about what you're going to say, before you say it.
Really? No one's coming to these countries for their culture. What drives people there is economic in nature. Additionally, if you spoke to these people, then you would know a majority of them miss their families at home as well as their own cultures.
"If the poor and miserable of the world have no trouble seeing the good that Western / European societies offer, why is it considered some form of liberal heresy for those living in those countries to see it the same way?"
The liberals emphasize economic and social equality as well as restraint from extorting economically and militarily weaker countries. I do not see how you are combining their point of view with that of the "poor and miserable" (which is a terrible wording by the way).
In the future, I suggest thing about what you're going to say, before you say it.
1
Give the illegal immigrants weapons, send them back where they came from, and let them take care of the real problems that lead to this.
As it is said, a liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged.
As it is said, a liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged.
33
Right, because once you've been mugged, you start race baiting, outlawing critical thinking, revising the treasonous history of the Confederacy, obstructing governance for power plays, supporting legislation that coddles the wealthy and punishes the poor, and explicitly advocating military solutions to diplomatic problems.
Why do Republicans even call themselves conservative? What in the world do they conserve? Certainly not peace, the environment, the spirit of compromise embodied in the Constitution, national economic health, etc etc etc.
I think what you mean is, once you have violence done to you, you discover the violence inherent within. And the Republican party is happy to tell you what you want to hear, while advancing their exploitative agenda.
Why do Republicans even call themselves conservative? What in the world do they conserve? Certainly not peace, the environment, the spirit of compromise embodied in the Constitution, national economic health, etc etc etc.
I think what you mean is, once you have violence done to you, you discover the violence inherent within. And the Republican party is happy to tell you what you want to hear, while advancing their exploitative agenda.
I think the advent of the cellphone (which everyone has in Africa) has played a major role in the migration from Sub-Saharan Africa. Apparently, the people-smugglers advertise their services in that region through a cellphone app.
11
It's the return of the Sea People, whose uncontrollable migrations in an age of (old-) world-wide disruption before 1000 BC brought down the great Bronze Age civilizations of the Eastern Mediterranean.
16
This mass movement is not because of dislocation caused by armed conflicts. The wars are no more than a catalyst. The economic and social conditions these migrants face at home motivate their journeys, and that is likely not to change; indeed it will become worse with rapidly increasing population and stagnant economies that can't support them. This is but a small precursor of tidal waves to come, where tens of millions of people flee their own societies, attempting to better their lots by moving to developed countries.
51
One of Human Natures biggest flaws is the age old idea that "the grass is always greener on the other side." As for all the comments blaming wars, ideology, colonialism, communism and the list goes on, you've made your point. We need someone or something to blame. The reality is that in the next 30 years the population of the world is expected to rise by over 2 billion people. Statistics show that countries where the population is educated and citizens are generations old the birth rates are lower then the countries where people are migrating from. I'm not making a statement about ethnic back rounds, just stating facts. The world is in for trying times in our near future.
27
True, but the best way to prevent the world's population by rising 2 billion in the next few decades is to get it to drop by 4 billion. Plagues could do this, but whatever it takes, it must be done. We can't handle another 2 billion because we can't even support the 7 billion we have now.
I think civilization will survive the upheaval in many areas, but we're going to have to get pretty danged callous about letting people pass away in remarkable numbers.
I think civilization will survive the upheaval in many areas, but we're going to have to get pretty danged callous about letting people pass away in remarkable numbers.
24
I've got a used razor blade. Willing to give it to you if you'd like to volunteer. Assuming you have the use of a warm tub to complete the
righteous act.
righteous act.
No, we'll probably wring our hands about it and tut tut and have Band Aids to raise funds and go on as usual feeling a little bad, but not too bad. Just like the pope and his lack of encyclicals endorsing aggressive birth control.
These are the results of regime change, and forcing democracy on societies not ready for it. I remember the glee with which US/NATO celebrated the destruction of Libya. Remember Anderson Cooper sitting in Tahrir square celebrating democracy? EU and US/NATO with encouragement from Western mainstream media outlets are directly responsible for destroying the lives of these unfortunates, and they should pay for their resettlement, otherwise the unintentional blowbacks will be terrible for all parties. Failed societies in this region will provide ideal recruiting grounds for ISIS and other undesirables.
9
Are we going to continually just bury our heads in the sand on this issue? Secure the borders. Can we at least try it?
141
The massive migrations now taking place have happened in the past although not for a long time.
In every case one of two things happened.
Either the invaders were able to establih control and take over the areas they migrated to or the people already living there mobilized and were able to drive them out.
The only question for us today is which one is it going to be?
In every case one of two things happened.
Either the invaders were able to establih control and take over the areas they migrated to or the people already living there mobilized and were able to drive them out.
The only question for us today is which one is it going to be?
24
That's simply inaccurate.
The varied and diverse histories of the people we call Goths demonstrates the opposite.
The varied and diverse histories of the people we call Goths demonstrates the opposite.
2
Actually they are a good case in point.
They sucessfully established kingdoms in France, and Spain.
They had a good run in North Africa but were eventually reduced by the Byzantines.
They sucessfully established kingdoms in France, and Spain.
They had a good run in North Africa but were eventually reduced by the Byzantines.
The Pope keeps keeps urging Europe to be kinder and welcoming to the refugees fleeing Africa and the Middle East. The migrants should be rounded up and delivered to the Pope's door at the Vatican. Let him show by example how to treat these people. He has plenty of room. He claimed the papal suites were large enough for 300 people. He also doesn't use his summer residence. Pope Francis, put your money where your mouth is. Lead by example.
108
Is there no compassion left anywhere? These desperate people are the fallout from our and Europe's military actions in the Middle East and Africa. What happened to the Christian idea of sanctuary?
8
What military actions in Africa? THe corrupt leaders in Africa are the problem they live like kings while their people starve.
26
"the Christian idea of sanctuary" went away about 3 billion people ago.
7
Thank you for writing this. This comment section is disgusting.
A good read for anyone with an interest in the migrant problem worldwide is a paper prepared for the parliament of Australia. "The Problem with the 1951 Refugee Convention" Sept 5, 2000 by Adrienne Millbank. The crux of criticism is that the convention is obsolete and inappropriate to deal with contemporary challenges. At the time of writing 22.3 million refugees worldwide were displaced. Today, fifteen years later, UNCHR states almost 60 million. The author questions whether those countries that signed the convention in 1951 would do so today. A google search will bring up the document, well worth the read. The paper also details a host of difficulties and problems with different aspects of asylum, and the way the protocols are applied.
12
"Mr. Cameron was careful not to criticize the French authorities, upon whom the British rely to try to contain the migrant problem."
Its time for politicians to stop with PC niceties.
Its time for politicians to stop with PC niceties.
29
Instead of de-stabilizing a country and regime-change, how about stabilizing a country, help improve it's economy along with an infrastructure and amenities that would support an exploding population in Africa? Even if it means working with uber-corrupt, murderous warlords. It's not as if USofA hasn't had decades of experience supporting corrupt regimes.
Clean water, hygiene, safety from persecution by warlords, safety from sectarian violence and jobs jobs jobs.
If the people have jobs and can feed their families, they would put up with a lot and tend not to go wandering north to Europe.
Clean water, hygiene, safety from persecution by warlords, safety from sectarian violence and jobs jobs jobs.
If the people have jobs and can feed their families, they would put up with a lot and tend not to go wandering north to Europe.
23
How about making sure every woman in every Third World country has access to birth control?
259
Dear NM,
That wouldn't work at all. Women in the third world tend to have no choice whatsoever in sexual matters, often arranged marriages, or simply being captured by thugs and sold, like with Boko Haram. Men hold all the power in third world countries, which is part of why those countries can't advance or become economically stable. Distribute condoms there and they don't get used. We're just going to have to wait for climate change to decimate these populations with dehydration, which will happen fairly soon.
That wouldn't work at all. Women in the third world tend to have no choice whatsoever in sexual matters, often arranged marriages, or simply being captured by thugs and sold, like with Boko Haram. Men hold all the power in third world countries, which is part of why those countries can't advance or become economically stable. Distribute condoms there and they don't get used. We're just going to have to wait for climate change to decimate these populations with dehydration, which will happen fairly soon.
19
Well...there are longer-term options, IUDs and implants that women in the Western world use as a matter of course. They're highly effective and they don't require regular access to medication or a doctor (other than the initial appointment).
These should be made available, free, and perhaps with some economic incentive, such as having their education paid for, access to micro-loans upon graduation, etc.
If women in the third world could avoid having children before they feel ready, and had access to education and perhaps a leg up starting in business, imagine the good that could come of it.
These should be made available, free, and perhaps with some economic incentive, such as having their education paid for, access to micro-loans upon graduation, etc.
If women in the third world could avoid having children before they feel ready, and had access to education and perhaps a leg up starting in business, imagine the good that could come of it.
8
I tout my hatred of illegal immigration into the USA to anyone that will listen.
But, maybe I need to reconsider. Is it moral for us to deny refugees basic human rights? Everyone needs Food, Clothing and Shelter.
From war ravaged countries with dictatorial governments, what are the citizens expected to do? Do they not need our support?
I do not have the answers. Through my 40 year career I have never wanted to 'pay' for illegal immigrants. I still don't.
But, what is our moral responsibility?
To me, at least, it's time to reassess my beliefs against illegal immigration.
My heart aches with empathy for displaced persons.
I fight, daily for the rights of our non-human brethren and always will. But I cannot ignore the suffering of refugees.
But, maybe I need to reconsider. Is it moral for us to deny refugees basic human rights? Everyone needs Food, Clothing and Shelter.
From war ravaged countries with dictatorial governments, what are the citizens expected to do? Do they not need our support?
I do not have the answers. Through my 40 year career I have never wanted to 'pay' for illegal immigrants. I still don't.
But, what is our moral responsibility?
To me, at least, it's time to reassess my beliefs against illegal immigration.
My heart aches with empathy for displaced persons.
I fight, daily for the rights of our non-human brethren and always will. But I cannot ignore the suffering of refugees.
6
There are several components to the "Morality" of this issue. Do we as humans have an "Inalienable right" to reproduce in unlimited numbers and all move to where we can do better?
I want to move to Tahiti or Switzerland, but both are small and will only let me visit and spend money. Is that "Moral" neither place would survive unfettered immigration. Both would be destroyed by it. Larger places will take longer to be destroyed but the result would be the same.
Basically we all live on "lifeboat Earth". There is currently nowhere else to go. Is it "Moral" to swamp the boat? Is it "Moral" for a portion of the Political Class to tell us that we should share and share alike thus all live in abject poverty (Except for them!)?
There is a lot of anger here for the U.S. Trying to "export American or European style representative government" to the world. That said what are these people fleeing from? What are they fleeing to?
All of the Countries people flee from have governments that don't work, only support the elite or both. How "Moral" is it to allow that to exist? Most here who support unlimited immigration are opposed to doing what is necessary to fix the problem at its source. How "Moral" is that?
I want to move to Tahiti or Switzerland, but both are small and will only let me visit and spend money. Is that "Moral" neither place would survive unfettered immigration. Both would be destroyed by it. Larger places will take longer to be destroyed but the result would be the same.
Basically we all live on "lifeboat Earth". There is currently nowhere else to go. Is it "Moral" to swamp the boat? Is it "Moral" for a portion of the Political Class to tell us that we should share and share alike thus all live in abject poverty (Except for them!)?
There is a lot of anger here for the U.S. Trying to "export American or European style representative government" to the world. That said what are these people fleeing from? What are they fleeing to?
All of the Countries people flee from have governments that don't work, only support the elite or both. How "Moral" is it to allow that to exist? Most here who support unlimited immigration are opposed to doing what is necessary to fix the problem at its source. How "Moral" is that?
14
Where is your fury at the govermental officials who create such problems in their home nations?
1
Philanthropic organizations, in our country, organize illegal immigrants to demand from our government what they consider to be their rights. Even as undocumented immigrants they are availing themselves of multiple government benefits from education to phone subsidies to medical care. If allowed to remain here legally, they will be eligible for even more such as subsidized housing.
They have come with such low levels of education (no more than 6th grade and many have less), that in our "information society", they could be dependent on government subsidies for years to come. And, since Hispanics have the highest rate of teenage pregnancy, they could have low levels of education for generations.
Our country has our own needs. It would be better for us and better for their own countries, if the philanthropic societies would organize them to return to their own countries and demand reforms be made there. Mexico and the Central American countries have potential. They can reform!
They have come with such low levels of education (no more than 6th grade and many have less), that in our "information society", they could be dependent on government subsidies for years to come. And, since Hispanics have the highest rate of teenage pregnancy, they could have low levels of education for generations.
Our country has our own needs. It would be better for us and better for their own countries, if the philanthropic societies would organize them to return to their own countries and demand reforms be made there. Mexico and the Central American countries have potential. They can reform!
3
THE FLOOD of immigrants is only going to increase with global climate change causing water and food shortages spreading worldwide. Were conditions in the countries of origin viable, refugees and immigrants would be minimized. But with so much strife, poverty and suffering in the world, in order to survive, humans follow the money. Europe is experiencing the effects of globalization, as the world has become flat again. Flat, hot and dry.
10
Somehow it strikes me as the Universe finally punishing Europe for having made such a mess during the second World War but never having taken responsibility. The creation of Israel in 1947 was a social necessity and is now carefully monitored and strengthened, surprisingly not by Europe but rather the USA. Why - Europe obviously is not doing its job! Many Jews continue to escape, no other word, from Europe because of a continuing anti-Jewish behavior in that part of the world. Somehow, somewhere, the overwhelming inflow of illegal miserable Middle Easterns is related to this Europe/Jewish never ending disconnection - some kind of punishment is hitting Europe and long overdo.
5
The migrants aren't coming from Israel. If the other countries of the Middle East and Africawere like Israel, there would be no migrant crisis.
29
As a American Jew living in Europe may I say that your theory is absurd. There is simply no connection between Israel, Jews and the migrant crisis going on now.
28
The program of immigration is something that requires an integrated plan with all EU countries sharing a proportion of the financial burden that is proportional to each country's GDP. However, if there is any country that refuses all attempts at integration, it has been Great Britain. It doesn't make sense for the U.K. to be in the EU if Britons don't believe it is worth their while in terms of costs and benefits. It may, in fact, be better for everyone if the U.K. leaves the EU.
Meanwhile each day hundreds, many thousands, of immigrants are trying to move from Libya to Italy. Each year thousands die making the crossing, while other thousands are rescued, primarily paid for by Spain, Italy and Greece.
Libya, the staging ground for immigrants, is a failed state largely thanks to the intervention of the U.S., the U.K. and France whose plan stupidly did not include the future of Libya. Meanwhile, Tunisians fight on valiantly for the democracy of the "Arab Spring" which Tunisians initiated, against ISIS, with little help from the EU.
And since no NATO country is under attack, NATO cannot enter Libya.
The EU could potentially send a military force into Libya to thwart traffickers, this is legally complicated, and more importantly, most Europeans simply don't want to pay for this.
Britons and Germans need to pay more to secure the EU's southern border. And they need to consider the well-being of Spaniards, Italians and Greeks are linked to their own well-being.
Period.
Meanwhile each day hundreds, many thousands, of immigrants are trying to move from Libya to Italy. Each year thousands die making the crossing, while other thousands are rescued, primarily paid for by Spain, Italy and Greece.
Libya, the staging ground for immigrants, is a failed state largely thanks to the intervention of the U.S., the U.K. and France whose plan stupidly did not include the future of Libya. Meanwhile, Tunisians fight on valiantly for the democracy of the "Arab Spring" which Tunisians initiated, against ISIS, with little help from the EU.
And since no NATO country is under attack, NATO cannot enter Libya.
The EU could potentially send a military force into Libya to thwart traffickers, this is legally complicated, and more importantly, most Europeans simply don't want to pay for this.
Britons and Germans need to pay more to secure the EU's southern border. And they need to consider the well-being of Spaniards, Italians and Greeks are linked to their own well-being.
Period.
9
The reasons that immigration has become a mess globally comes down to two issues. The first is birth control access which goes hand in hand with upgrading the status of women everywhere in the world. The second is that the developed countries continue to support corrupt brutal regimes across the world in return for "stability" and in some cases resources (less important). The Chinese are clearly the worst offenders but the EU, Japan and the US can do much more along the lines of helping these countries toward good government and reducing the increase in population that impoverishes them. There are just too many people now in the world chasing too few jobs. This is just going to get worse until governments wake up and cooperate to improve things in the countries where these people come from.
40
The West helped Iraq and Libya to good governments, by removing the brutal regimes formerly tolerated or even supported there. Clearly, that doesn't work either. Nor does refusing to have diplomatic relations with brutal regimes. There is no perfect path for the West to take. Yet, despite every road forward being a compromise, we must go forward.
4
Mr. Cameron is standing on the shore shouting "Go back!" to the waves.
Stopping immigration (from former European colonies) is obviously impossible since those people displaced by violence and poverty are willing risk death to escape. No planning for the refugees besides "squalid camps" but talk of bringing in troops? Isn't this the beginning of the great population movements that will come with new wars for resources as a result of climate change?
And only poor Greece is humane in its treatment of refugees?
Stopping immigration (from former European colonies) is obviously impossible since those people displaced by violence and poverty are willing risk death to escape. No planning for the refugees besides "squalid camps" but talk of bringing in troops? Isn't this the beginning of the great population movements that will come with new wars for resources as a result of climate change?
And only poor Greece is humane in its treatment of refugees?
4
Most of these people are not refugees, they are economic migrants. They want to get to the UK because the black market is not regulated in the UK. Plus they speak English and often many see it as a stepping stone to other English speaking countries like the US.
In Britain, we have had an explosion of people from inside and outside of the EU settling into our town and cities. Our councils have a legal obligation to house these people and of course our NHS is free to use. This is at a time when our country is cutting back services and wages have not been increased for some time. Our services are stretched.
So you can imagine that there is not much of an appetite for more people coming to settle here. In addition many of these migrants are not educated never mind highly skilled and therefore don't benefit our economy or fit in with a modern society.
In Britain, we have had an explosion of people from inside and outside of the EU settling into our town and cities. Our councils have a legal obligation to house these people and of course our NHS is free to use. This is at a time when our country is cutting back services and wages have not been increased for some time. Our services are stretched.
So you can imagine that there is not much of an appetite for more people coming to settle here. In addition many of these migrants are not educated never mind highly skilled and therefore don't benefit our economy or fit in with a modern society.
43
Poor Greece, they need refugees like they need another flat tire.
5
Impossible to stop? Do you recall how machine guns stopped waves of men in World War I? What we are witnessing are governments that will not protect their own countries.
4
well if it is this easy to gain access to the Chunnel then how long until a terrorist goes in their with a bomb ? Add a 1$ to the ticket price and ensure security
30
Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation New Dawn - the gift that keeps on giving. De-stabilization of the Middle East and now de-stabilization of Europe. Thank you, President Bush.
Mission accomplished.
Mission accomplished.
296
Don't forget that the U.S., the U.K. and France removed Qaddafi, which led to the failed state status of Libya, across whose border most immigrants are leaving for Europe. None of the leaders of the EU or the U.S. are capable for creating an integrated, long-term plan for anything.
13
Is stability-under-dictatorship favorable? Either the West should support dictatorships, or the West should support removing them, or the West should turn inwards and ignore the problems in nations beyond it. Which do you favor?
Glib answers and assignment of blame mean nothing in the absence of constructive solutions.
Glib answers and assignment of blame mean nothing in the absence of constructive solutions.
5
That's a silly comment. Mr. Bush is out of office for many years now, and the O failed to continue the stability in Iraq with his feckless foreign policy. ISIL and others are de-stabilizing the Middle East. And, illegals are leaving even stable countries that don't have economic opportunity.
2
Both France and the United Kingdom are signatories to the 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol dictating that they provide refuge to refugees...
The 1951 Refugee Convention spells out that a refugee is someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."
While some of these migrants are perhaps economic migrants I suspect many are not. France and Britain have a responsibility to provide refuge while proper determinations are made. I hope that these two countries, as well as others impacted by this migration, will honor their commitments.
The 1951 Refugee Convention spells out that a refugee is someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."
While some of these migrants are perhaps economic migrants I suspect many are not. France and Britain have a responsibility to provide refuge while proper determinations are made. I hope that these two countries, as well as others impacted by this migration, will honor their commitments.
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How come these muslims are bypassing the 56 other muslim countries, and are going to the West? Why are the africans bypassing the 50 other african countries, and are going to the West?
Sorry, but no thanks. These are people looking for jobs, like the central and south americans streaming into the US at the behest of the corporate wing of the republican party and the democratic party.
They need to be deported en masse.
Sorry, but no thanks. These are people looking for jobs, like the central and south americans streaming into the US at the behest of the corporate wing of the republican party and the democratic party.
They need to be deported en masse.
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Let's start with you. Your ancestors came here without papers and landed, claiming and buying land they had no right to, and then stealing millions of jobs from people who were already here.
So, hop on the boat and leave, go back to Europe. Be a shining example of your own demands.
So, hop on the boat and leave, go back to Europe. Be a shining example of your own demands.
3
"France and Britain have a responsibility to provide refuge while proper determinations are made."
No they don't. The convention and protocol you cite are from a long time ago and anachronistic in todays much different world. Western countries have a responsibility to the security of their own citizens which takes precedence over providing "refuge". Britain and France should recuse themselves from these agreements as should the US.
No they don't. The convention and protocol you cite are from a long time ago and anachronistic in todays much different world. Western countries have a responsibility to the security of their own citizens which takes precedence over providing "refuge". Britain and France should recuse themselves from these agreements as should the US.
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Chickens coming home to roost? The result of Western colonialism and resource exploitation of the regions these people are coming from. The West and the U.S. destabilized these regions and left them in the hands of dictators whom the West subsequently supported as bulwarks against Communism.
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Another weak-minded liberal. You complain when the West doesn't overthrow their dictators so these people suffer, and you complain when the West does. People like you are simply devoid of any credibility.
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As is anyone who uses the term "weak-minded liberal." If you hurry, you can still catch the last few minutes of Fox and Friends.
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Why are the camps squalid? A good starting point might be to make them less squalid. I find it hard to care about vacationers (which may include me at some point) when human beings are living in "squalid" conditions under the vacationers' noses. Of course, now more money will be spent on keeping people in these conditions, instead of improving their conditions.
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The "conditions" are self-imposed.
As for "vacationers" and the much larger commercial traffic-- that's what the tunnel was built for, not for illegal migrants.
As for "vacationers" and the much larger commercial traffic-- that's what the tunnel was built for, not for illegal migrants.
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Your altruistic sentiments are simple minded. The more benefits you provide free of charge, the more illegal immigrants will flood your country. The problem will only get worse, not better.
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Once the camps get pretties with flowers, and gardens, and such, the temporary residents will stay there for generations. why not? free everything, and safe too. with nothing to do, the result will be they will start having babies, who are now French citizens, and then they really have no reason to improve.
No sir, making pretty refugee camps leads to population explosion, and instant citizens.
No sir, making pretty refugee camps leads to population explosion, and instant citizens.
19
The West cannot continue to tolerate strong-men dictators and corrupt governments in these developing countries in exchange for access to resources. This is what both political and economic corruption and instability bring. No one wants to leave their birthplace unless there is no chance to make a living and have a decent life. We cannot continue to promote and support governments that do not work for their own people. This is what drives desperate hoards of people to migrate for both economic and political freedom. We also can't deny that this is Western colonialism's karma coming back to haunt the West. You can't suddenly think the inter-generational effects of imperialism to resolve overnight with Free Trade agreements. It's not a magic wand. Each country has a unique situation that is a result of its complicated history with the West. Until you solve the fundamental problems in each country without resorting to supporting psychotic strong men or corrupt regimes, the problem will continue to grow.
13
"The West cannot continue to tolerate strong-men dictators and corrupt governments in these developing countries in exchange for access to resources."
Why would the Wall Street and IMF bankers in Brussels care about this?
Why would the Wall Street and IMF bankers in Brussels care about this?
1
No one wants to leave their birthplace unless there is a chance to get free medical care and welfare elsewhere.
11
The migrant tsunami was predicted in "The Camp of the Saints," the 1973 novel by French author Jean Raspail, in which migrants from Africa and India swamp Europe and destroy Western civilization.
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It is well underway.
11
A nice fable.
But here in the U.S. we are quite capable of destroying our democracy, with or without the help of foreigners.
Most Republicans think we should return to the late 18th century.
And most Democrats don't even have a plan to go past or forward.
But here in the U.S. we are quite capable of destroying our democracy, with or without the help of foreigners.
Most Republicans think we should return to the late 18th century.
And most Democrats don't even have a plan to go past or forward.
7
Thank you for mentioning this book which I came across 25 years ago.
A very prescient novel whose provocative ideas provided some hot literary debates in France when it was published. I recommend watching youtube interviews with Monsieur Raspail, whose eloquence and sharp intelligence may surprise you.
A very prescient novel whose provocative ideas provided some hot literary debates in France when it was published. I recommend watching youtube interviews with Monsieur Raspail, whose eloquence and sharp intelligence may surprise you.
4
A note: The article's opening sentence is, "Britain and France scrambled on Wednesday to address the latest flash point in Europe’s festering migrant crisis..."
This is emphatically not Europe's crisis. The crisis is in the immigrants' home country, many of which are not war-torn, but corruptly run. And Europe, with its generous welfare system and well-run countries (yes, in comparison to the rest of the world), is geographic haven.
This is emphatically not Europe's crisis. The crisis is in the immigrants' home country, many of which are not war-torn, but corruptly run. And Europe, with its generous welfare system and well-run countries (yes, in comparison to the rest of the world), is geographic haven.
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One of the things fueling this crisis is the argument that Western countries should support everyone and mold their cultures accordingly while tyrants and fanatics in Africa and elsewhere get a pass. These "leaders" abuse their own people and destroy the land and yet Western leaders visit their countries and shake their hands! Foreign leaders must be held accountable. First start with a freezing of all of their accounts and make them remain in their own countries. No vacations in Paris or London. Make them live in the hell they create and when another tyrant rises and detainees them no sanctuary should be provided. Treat them as the pariahs they are!
The migrants will continue coming until the countries they are coming from are cleaned up and that is up to the people in those countries including those who leave.
The migrants will continue coming until the countries they are coming from are cleaned up and that is up to the people in those countries including those who leave.
196
The migrants will keep coming until the western countries seal their borders and stop offering massive welfare benefits.
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Dave, where did your ancestors come from looking for a better life?
2
AMEN!!! Freeze their accounts and don't sell them fancy real estate in US or Europe.
4
It's all about free stuff. The illegal immigrants over running France now see a rainbow of government provided benefits on the other side of the English Channel. They have worn out their welcome, and the French are quickly becoming sick of them. They need a new country to fleece. If they can't rush the Chunnel, they will cross the channel on makeshift boats as the Mariel Cubans did to Florida. This is what happens when governments allow and sanction unlimited immigration from countries with whom they have no cultural ties. Take a lesson America. Let Trump build the wall he wants on our southern border, or we will suffer the same fate.
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"with whom they have no cultural ties"--huh? France has tons of cultural "ties" with Africa and the Middle East. Do some reading. (and check out Britain's ties, as well)
6
What, you mean the same way the French and British fleeced all the same countries, stole their resources and impoverished these people for over 200 years, or the trade agreements that continue the colonialism today? None of that counts, does it? Are you going to pay out of your own pocket, or lobby Congress to create real opportunities in those countries so they can all go back?
1
Hope, say what you will about Birmingham and Calais. The fact is that clitorectomies are a relatively new thing thereabouts.
6
Could Mr. Krugman share some thoughts on why these migrants want to leave the socialist paradise of France and somehow get into that ugly, capitalist Britain?
28
Read the article. The migrants don't need identity cards in Britain and many of them speak English.
And it's hardly surprising that they find it easier to work in Britain than France. Anglo-Saxon countries are always eager to exploit cheap illegal labor and thereby reduce wages generally. Just look at the way U.S. companies, including the richest and most powerful, exploit temporary work visas from abroad.
And it's hardly surprising that they find it easier to work in Britain than France. Anglo-Saxon countries are always eager to exploit cheap illegal labor and thereby reduce wages generally. Just look at the way U.S. companies, including the richest and most powerful, exploit temporary work visas from abroad.
14
Britain actually has a lush welfare system and immigrants have been exploiting it for decades.
38
jrd,
If you think that the French are blameless in all this you should watch an old movie called "Black and White Together"! Then tell us it's an "Anglo-Saxon" only problem. Then of course there was Italy in North Africa too! You might want to watch Hali Salise's League of Nation's speech prior to WW2 as well!
If you think that the French are blameless in all this you should watch an old movie called "Black and White Together"! Then tell us it's an "Anglo-Saxon" only problem. Then of course there was Italy in North Africa too! You might want to watch Hali Salise's League of Nation's speech prior to WW2 as well!
4
Anyone else reminded of the recent Matt Damon movie "Elysium"?
You got your holiday makers hoping for a nice trip to Calais, your hoards of poor and downtrodden storming the fence, trying to get into paradise, your massive economic inequality.
Yup. And while I didn't see the film, I suspect it does not end well for the rich folk sitting around in the sunshine telling those poor folk they should just go get a job.
You got your holiday makers hoping for a nice trip to Calais, your hoards of poor and downtrodden storming the fence, trying to get into paradise, your massive economic inequality.
Yup. And while I didn't see the film, I suspect it does not end well for the rich folk sitting around in the sunshine telling those poor folk they should just go get a job.
14
What the rich countries should do is enforce their absolute right to control their borders.
33
Not all vacaitoners are rich, your envy is showing, some of us actually save up to go on a holiday or two. These illegals are breaking laws left and right and wreaking havoc in their host countries. They ought ot be rounded up and sent packing.....back to their collective homelands.
18
As someone who DID see the film, it was very entertaining and with an obvious nod to immigration and income inequality concerns we face today. However, the movie clearly showed technologies present that simply do not exist. For instance, the wealthy had medical technology that could, without any perceivable costs, cure ANY ailment from near-beheading to radiation poisoning. Robots could provide an almost limitless supply of labor. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the immigrants were skilled in highly technical fields like robotics, medicine, and computer programming. It presented the immigration issue as simply: "There are absolutely no negative consequences or risks to having a completely open and unguarded border. The only reason wealthy countries police their borders is because they are mean." Compare that to real life... First of all, the NY Times had an article just yesterday where an asylum advocate acknowledges that 80% of refugees are eventually resettled in the U.S. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/opinion/why-cant-refugees-get-lawyers..... We're not as heartless as you imply. Secondly, national resources are decidedly not limitless. Eating a whole pie may be gluttony, but splitting the pie a million ways evenly just leaves everyone starving. Thirdly, many of these refugees may not have the job skills to survive even if they gain access to the country. What happens when they feel their host country has let them down economically/ideologically? Nothing good.
6
Did this illustrious gentleman not understand that "war" IS the problem? "Nigel Farage, leader of the populist, right-wing U.K. Independence Party, said the option of calling in the army should “absolutely” be considered to help resolve a “lawless, scary” situation." Political "conservatives", the operatives for the top 1% global financial elite, ARE the problem around the world which is why only their money masters are gaining wealth with all the chaos they're creating. It must stop NOW!
6
If there were inhabitable, uninhabited areas of the planet, then all these migrants could go there to escape the horrible things in the countries they came from.
Earth's done full up, though. Some countries may not look full up, but it's good to have some extra capacity for unforeseen domestic needs.
Just too many of us.
Earth's done full up, though. Some countries may not look full up, but it's good to have some extra capacity for unforeseen domestic needs.
Just too many of us.
76
If there were inhabitable, uninhabited areas of the planet, then all these migrants could go there to escape the horrible things in the countries they came from, at which point they would recreate the exact same environment they sought to escape.
Just as has happened everywhere that a massive influx of immigrants has arrived from Third World countries.
Just as has happened everywhere that a massive influx of immigrants has arrived from Third World countries.
16
Who can fault people trying to improve their lives by migrating out of bad places in the world to better places? The problem is that the population of the world is increasing. Population increase is a a more immediate threat than global warming, yet not many nations are imposing laws to stop people from multiplying.
112
It's not a question of "faulting" people, it's a question of stopping them. You don't get to enter another country illegally because you are "faultless".
31
They have no right to just walk into someone else's country. Period.
61
Dave and LC, his point is that we should encourage and endorse birth control, not that goldilocks should just walk in and make herself at home.
6
You will notice that despite the rhetoric of human-rights groups, these migrants are almost all adult males. Where are their mothers, wives, sisters, children? There are some, but proportionally very few.
Europe cannot absorb everyone from the Middle East and Africa. It is not set up the way the United States was at the turn of the last century when there was plenty of land and we had industries that needed lots of workers.
And let's not kid ourselves: A number of these men will be waiting to carry out acts of terrorism. In terms of Europe's desire to help refugees: Let no good deed go unpunished.
Europe cannot absorb everyone from the Middle East and Africa. It is not set up the way the United States was at the turn of the last century when there was plenty of land and we had industries that needed lots of workers.
And let's not kid ourselves: A number of these men will be waiting to carry out acts of terrorism. In terms of Europe's desire to help refugees: Let no good deed go unpunished.
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First, not "everyone" is going to try to go to Europe. And not "everyone" tried to go to the States. Second, the men go because they will fare better at finding jobs, and then they send money home to their families. This happens all over the world and has been going on for centuries. Third, not clear what you mean by "a number." The vast majority will not carry out acts of terrorism and will, in fact, contribute to keeping the economies of France and Britain "first world" economies.
3
Forgive me, Hope. I should have said "many hundreds of thousands, and indeed, millions, given the number of migrants to Greece alone."
But if you believe that I was exaggerating, surely you are also, when you write about migrants turning England and France into "first-world economies."
Perhaps my language was sloppy. Your sanguineness and serenity are, though, sadly misplaced.
But if you believe that I was exaggerating, surely you are also, when you write about migrants turning England and France into "first-world economies."
Perhaps my language was sloppy. Your sanguineness and serenity are, though, sadly misplaced.
7
Hope.
Whether you care to admit it or not, the Europeans neither need or want these people in their nations. They have the right to say no.
Whether you care to admit it or not, the Europeans neither need or want these people in their nations. They have the right to say no.
11
Well, it will be proper to call out the military to protect all public transportation against migrant infiltration. Nobody knows who these people are. This is frightening.
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Next time I take a city bus, I hope someone has made sure there are no "migrants infiltrating." Maybe we need an immigration official, with a big gun, on every bus and train. (Sarcasm)
Or they can all come stay at your house!
19
It's frightening in Maryland?
And when you write that "Nobody knows who these people are" do you mean that their names and home countries are unknown or that you assume that they're all terrorists?
And when you write that "Nobody knows who these people are" do you mean that their names and home countries are unknown or that you assume that they're all terrorists?
2
This is not an one-off event, it is merely a beginning.
The immigrants are not only from war-torn countries, but from relatively stable countries in Africa who can't provide opportunities and meet expectations of their citizens.
And it is precisely these countries, many in Africa, who are registering a birth rate that will swamp growth in most of the world, especially Europe. The United Nations has released a good report of population growth by regions which you can google to get more details.
The immigrants are not only from war-torn countries, but from relatively stable countries in Africa who can't provide opportunities and meet expectations of their citizens.
And it is precisely these countries, many in Africa, who are registering a birth rate that will swamp growth in most of the world, especially Europe. The United Nations has released a good report of population growth by regions which you can google to get more details.
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Defend the castle, Britain.
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The only way to stop this for good is to stop the wars. If we permit the wars to go on especially for years as they have, there will only be more displaced people. If that is impossible than put together a program to deal with displaced persons as was done after WW2. Actually that might cause the governments affected to make effective effort toward having these incessant wars end.
14
"The only way to stop this for good is to stop the wars."
Silly cliche. There is no war in Mexico but the situation on the southern US border is the same. The only way to stop this is for the countries these people come from to adopt the rule of law, improve education and regulated free market capitalism. That way these people can improve the standards of living in their own countries. As others have pointed out many areas have birthrates that are far too high as well, but those would fall with economic improvements. Birth rates are also demonstrated to drop with improvements in female education.
Silly cliche. There is no war in Mexico but the situation on the southern US border is the same. The only way to stop this is for the countries these people come from to adopt the rule of law, improve education and regulated free market capitalism. That way these people can improve the standards of living in their own countries. As others have pointed out many areas have birthrates that are far too high as well, but those would fall with economic improvements. Birth rates are also demonstrated to drop with improvements in female education.
23
The wars in these countries are caused by overpopulation and a shortage of resources like food and jobs. That's what everyone is fighting about. When enough people are killed or leave, then the wars will stop.
15
Birth rates will never fall in some countries because the men are totally in control and women are nothing but slaves. Having many offspring is a matter of male pride. Religion plays a role in this, but it's also cultural and traditional.
8