Boehner: "I'm (hic, burp) very proud to announce this (burp) bipartisan effort that will lead the (hic) way to changing America's opin..(gasp)..ion of Congress, especially since it's (burp,hic) not high on the priority list of (gasp) Republican prezuldenshul canadates...(ull)... "
5
So the crime rate FINALLY falls (thanks to mandatory sentencing) and the NYT wants to reduce the sentences and let these repeat offenders back on the streets? How noble.
1
People are not garbage and we need to quit throwing them away (in prison).
By putting a person in prison, we are essentially throwing that person away. They can no longer access help in education, housing, food stamps--and almost all people who go to prison are poor in the first place. We should be eliminating prison sentences for non-violent crimes and instituting restorative justice (make the offender atone for their violations)--that way everyone wins, the offender, the offended and society.
By putting a person in prison, we are essentially throwing that person away. They can no longer access help in education, housing, food stamps--and almost all people who go to prison are poor in the first place. We should be eliminating prison sentences for non-violent crimes and instituting restorative justice (make the offender atone for their violations)--that way everyone wins, the offender, the offended and society.
1
A nice turn of phrase " Incarcerated Americans". Why not incarcerated criminals? Deflect much?
1
It is time to end the war on drugs, especially marijuana. I will be repeating myself until I leave planet earth. It would reduce our prison population right away. Reduce all of the costs associated with these ridiculous laws; prisons, police, lawyers, judges etc. and instead spend the money on the schools, health care and infrastructure. Reduce the sentences of all non-violent drug offenders. Where is the compassion for these poor souls locked up for smoking some pot? Where is the compassion for their families negatively impacted by these terrible drug laws?
We can do better. End the drug laws. Take cannabis off Schedule One.
We can do better. End the drug laws. Take cannabis off Schedule One.
8
Better yet - get rid of the entire "schedule". What business is it of the government what I choose to put in my body?
2
The prisons' corporate lobby has been instrumental in opposing the legalization of marijuana, which has led to both the enrichment of themselves and murderous drug cartels, while ruining lives of countless young adults at the cost of billions to citizens. If the lobby thought they could bring back Prohibition and jail countless more citizens for having a beer or wine with dinner, they would do so in a flash, and the cartels would be running liquor and making even more money. We should scrutinize every legislator's record for supporting this corrupt coalition and remove them from office ASAP.
4
I like the way Bill Clinton has been "walking back" on the policies created during his administration. Instead of disavowing them, why doesn't he say that he thought that they were the right ways to go at the time, but times change. He could say that it shows the evolution and maturity of our process and that we can learn from how we came to these decisions in order to make the future better. Of course that's nuance and politicians hate nuance because the general public does not comprehend nuance!
5
The entire legal system is a sham. Miranda rights, a joke for "anything can be used against you in a court of law" before they read you your rights; so what is the point of Miranda? In Colorado, if you get caught urinating in a bush, alley etc. you can be charged as a sex offender! The police are not just going after the bad guys, they are also taking down some of the good guys.
4
There are few if any miscreants in federal prison. Many are serving long prison sentences resulting from their involvement in trafficking in hard drugs or large amounts of marijuana. If they were user-dealers, their behavior selling poison within their communities and abetting the indiscriminate violence that accompanied their enterprise, were the dominant factors in determining their sentences. Most had long criminal records dating back to their early teens. Federal prison for many was the last stop on a long journey of missed opportunities, wrong turns, increasingly aggravated criminal acts and escalating criminality. There were few who mourned their incarceration, especially in inner-city communities they had terrorized and among the general populace that was victimized by their violence.
They were not sent to prison to be reformed, but to be warehoused, separated from the communities they'd terrorized to allow others the opportunity to develop without the threats and intimidation that were their stock in trade. Some benefited, others tried to take their place.
Let's look at "reform" in a responsible way. No one who was lucky enough to have survived the "crack" cocaine wars of the early '80s wants to relive the horrors of that era. Those too young to have experienced it should learn about it. It wasn't pretty..........and it started with the cockeyed notion that cocaine might actually be "good for you".
They were not sent to prison to be reformed, but to be warehoused, separated from the communities they'd terrorized to allow others the opportunity to develop without the threats and intimidation that were their stock in trade. Some benefited, others tried to take their place.
Let's look at "reform" in a responsible way. No one who was lucky enough to have survived the "crack" cocaine wars of the early '80s wants to relive the horrors of that era. Those too young to have experienced it should learn about it. It wasn't pretty..........and it started with the cockeyed notion that cocaine might actually be "good for you".
Boehner's remark about people in prison who do not belong there is the most perceptive remark that I have seen from him.
3
An uphill battle at state levels. Look at Ferguson, MO. That entire city is basically funded by the fees brought in from the corrupt law enforcement tactics. It will be like pulling teeth in small town, conservative America.
5
Current sentencing policy is a waste of lives and money; it's also racist.
4
I am in full agreement with the following remarkable relevance of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's warning of Western decline.
America has chosen for itself at best a legalistic society. The limits of human rights and rightness are very broad. Americans have acquired considerable skill in using, interpreting, and manipulating law, considered to be the ultimate solution.
If one is within a legal limits, nothing more is required. Not necessarily could still not be right. Self-restraint or a renunciation of these rights would simply be absurd. Voluntary self-restraint is almost unheard of: everybody strives toward further expansion to the extreme limit of the legal frames. A food product manufacturer is legally blameless when he poisons his produce to make it last longer: after all, people are free not to purchase it.
A society without any objective legal scale is a terrible but a society based only on the letter of the law is equally bad. The letter of the law is too cold and formal to have a beneficial influence on society. Whenever the tissue of life is woven of legalistic relationships, this creates an atmosphere of spiritual mediocrity that paralyzes man's noblest impulses.
And it will be simply impossible to bear up to the trials of this threatening century with nothing but the supports of a legalistic structure.
America has chosen for itself at best a legalistic society. The limits of human rights and rightness are very broad. Americans have acquired considerable skill in using, interpreting, and manipulating law, considered to be the ultimate solution.
If one is within a legal limits, nothing more is required. Not necessarily could still not be right. Self-restraint or a renunciation of these rights would simply be absurd. Voluntary self-restraint is almost unheard of: everybody strives toward further expansion to the extreme limit of the legal frames. A food product manufacturer is legally blameless when he poisons his produce to make it last longer: after all, people are free not to purchase it.
A society without any objective legal scale is a terrible but a society based only on the letter of the law is equally bad. The letter of the law is too cold and formal to have a beneficial influence on society. Whenever the tissue of life is woven of legalistic relationships, this creates an atmosphere of spiritual mediocrity that paralyzes man's noblest impulses.
And it will be simply impossible to bear up to the trials of this threatening century with nothing but the supports of a legalistic structure.
3
This is the first step on the road to national prison reform. We are glad for this, BUT, it is only the beginning!
4
how encouraging to hear the New York Times acknowledge the necessity of a country to make policy with the input from the two major political sides.
Had they been upfront with this message when the health care law was passed, we would not have a disaster we have today, as a mature voice would have put pressure on the administration to be inclusive of perhaps a SINGLE Republican idea.
NOT when you're absolutely right and absolutely the smartest.
Had they been upfront with this message when the health care law was passed, we would not have a disaster we have today, as a mature voice would have put pressure on the administration to be inclusive of perhaps a SINGLE Republican idea.
NOT when you're absolutely right and absolutely the smartest.
1
Start by freeing OSCAR LÓPEZ RIVERA, 72, the longest serving political prisoner in the United States, who, as of Friday, May 29, 2015, has been incarcerated for 34 years.
He has served his time with dignity and has contributed to the lives of other prisoners, refusing a clemency offer extended to him in 1999 by President Clinton because it had not also been extended to fellow FALN* prisoner Carlos Torres.
The United States holds the largest prison population in the world and the second-highest per-capita incarceration rate worldwide behind Seychelles**, which has a total prison population of 786 out of a population of 90,024). In 2012 there were 707 persons incarcerated in the U.S. per 100,000 population.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2011 – about 0.94% of adults in the U.S. resident population. Additionally, 4,814,200 adults at year-end 2011 were on probation or on parole.
In total, 6,977,700 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2011 – about 2.9% of adults in the U.S. resident population.
In addition, there were 70,792 juveniles in detention in 2010.
Exceptional!
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
~ FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY
* Puerto Rican Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional
** Indian Ocean archipelago 932 miles east of mainland Southeast Africa.
He has served his time with dignity and has contributed to the lives of other prisoners, refusing a clemency offer extended to him in 1999 by President Clinton because it had not also been extended to fellow FALN* prisoner Carlos Torres.
The United States holds the largest prison population in the world and the second-highest per-capita incarceration rate worldwide behind Seychelles**, which has a total prison population of 786 out of a population of 90,024). In 2012 there were 707 persons incarcerated in the U.S. per 100,000 population.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2011 – about 0.94% of adults in the U.S. resident population. Additionally, 4,814,200 adults at year-end 2011 were on probation or on parole.
In total, 6,977,700 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2011 – about 2.9% of adults in the U.S. resident population.
In addition, there were 70,792 juveniles in detention in 2010.
Exceptional!
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
~ FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY
* Puerto Rican Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional
** Indian Ocean archipelago 932 miles east of mainland Southeast Africa.
3
Congress should take up the sex offender registry as its next reform. People who violently sexually assault or are repeat pedophiles or drug and rape others predatorily should be the only ones on the registry not people who sext, who have consensual sex with another teenager, who publicly urinate, who have downloaded child pornography or any number of non violent crimes that land them on the registry for life. The registry has become meaningless as a public safety tool and has ruined too many young lives.
4
The sentences that Western European justice systems impose often seem amazingly light when compared to US sentences for comparable behavior. Also, the impact of the US criminal justice system seems to fall more heavily on minority groups, particularly people of color.
Western Europe seems more interested in rehabilitation than in putting criminals out of circulation so we do not have to deal with them. If lives matter, and we say they do, we should take more interest in rehabilitation than in putting people in places where we do not have to think about them.
Western Europe seems more interested in rehabilitation than in putting criminals out of circulation so we do not have to deal with them. If lives matter, and we say they do, we should take more interest in rehabilitation than in putting people in places where we do not have to think about them.
4
The primary reason U.S. incarceration rates are high because U.S. crime clearance rates are high. (Clearance rates are calculated by dividing the number of crimes that are "cleared" by arrests.) The high clearance rate encourages crime victims to report crimes that would go unreported in many countries, According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, U.S. police clear about 64 percent of murders, 58 percent of assaults, 40 percent of reported rapes, 29 percent of robberies, 22 percent of thefts, 14 percent of car thefts and 13.1 percent of burglaries. Only 36 percent of murderers and only 60 percent of (reported) rapists get away with it. Even some armed robbers, burglars and car thieves go to jail, a clear indication that police are making life too difficult for criminals. The obvious solution is to lower the clearance rates by catching a smaller percent of murderers, muggers, rapists, robbers, thieves, burglars and car thieves. We can do this simply by decreasing police funding. Crime victims could do their part by not reporting crimes. It is estimated that less than 80 percent of rapes go unreported. We should aim for the same level of under reporting in other crime categories. Americans tend to report crimes that would go unreported in most countries because people know no arrest will be made.
1
I must commend any bipartisan effort to reevaluate the sentencing laws and eliminate any unduly harsh or disproportional penalties. Certainly the money saved can be put to better use to alleviate the conditions that contribute to the underlying causes of why these incarcerated men and women committed their crimes in the first place. Doesn't it just make more sense to allocate the resources to eliminate the causes rather than throwing away millions or possibly billions of dollars every year treating the symptoms?
2
Finally Congress is working on an important issue that needs rational, thoughtful and positive resolution. Once this action has been completed, we can hope they will turn to one of the other issues that need attention.
5
A couple of things I know from being a prosecutor for 30+ years. First, there is a direct correlation between the increased incarceration rate and the decades long decline in crime. Anyone around the court system from the early 1970's has seen what a difference it has made. Second, the so called "low level drug offender" is often a violent and dangerous criminal, usually a dealer, who had a plea deal that reduced his trafficking charge to possession as a means of clearing out the clogged criminal court docket. Further, we once did an informal in house survey of our all of our criminal indictments over several years and found over 80% had a drug component. That is, the crime was committed while on drugs, or to get drugs, or acts linked loosely or closely to drug sales and competition. I understand the desire for reform and the need. I agree the current state of criminal justice is not working to rehabilitate those incarcerated. However, the assumption that the reduction of incarceration will have no effect on public safety will be proven wrong and the assumption that most "low level drug offenders" does not include many who are violent and dangerous is equally wrong. We best not deceive ourselves as to the serious possible effects of the changes that may come. Some innocent people will suffer and die, their number will be determined by the choices we make on reform. We need to be cautious and very thoughtful in this undertaking.
2
@arnold: Good points, but you left some things out. For example, property crime perpetrated by drug users is largely the result of the high price of drugs. Drug prices are high because of criminalization. It's a vicious circle. Legalization would causes prices to drop and property crime would go down. Heck, it's cheaper to give people drugs than to lock them up. Legalize most drugs and put the dealers out of business! (At the same time, we should be prosecuting driving under the influence, etc., even more than we do now.)
The issue of violent offenders being pled down is I guess a real one, but the record can be examined in each case before any early release is decided on. If we stopped prosecuting nonviolent offenders, prosecutors and the courts would have more time to deal with the violent ones, and would have no excuse for allowing violent offenders to plea bargain.
I agree that putting the really bad folks away has contributed to the drop in crime. But it's not the only reason; the decrease in the 15 to 25 year-old population has also contributed, as have other factors. No one is advocating emptying the prisons. But for the most part nonviolent offenders should not be put in prison -- it's expensive and makes their reintroduction into society more difficult. Nothing has been more expensive and caused more violence than the attempt by the state to suppress drug use. After 45 years of fighting a losing war, we need to try a different approach.
The issue of violent offenders being pled down is I guess a real one, but the record can be examined in each case before any early release is decided on. If we stopped prosecuting nonviolent offenders, prosecutors and the courts would have more time to deal with the violent ones, and would have no excuse for allowing violent offenders to plea bargain.
I agree that putting the really bad folks away has contributed to the drop in crime. But it's not the only reason; the decrease in the 15 to 25 year-old population has also contributed, as have other factors. No one is advocating emptying the prisons. But for the most part nonviolent offenders should not be put in prison -- it's expensive and makes their reintroduction into society more difficult. Nothing has been more expensive and caused more violence than the attempt by the state to suppress drug use. After 45 years of fighting a losing war, we need to try a different approach.
5
Well, if most "low level drug offenders" have actually committed violent crimes, why haven't they been CONVICTED of those violent crimes?
As to the statement that 80% of crimes were committed to get money to buy drugs or in acts associated with drug sales, legalization would solve all of that.
As to "some innocent people will suffer and die" with reduced incarceration of drug offenders, let me point out that "several hundred thousand people" suffer because of being imprisoned by absurd drug laws and sentencing. But hey, that's OK, because it's OK for all of "them" to suffer, as long as none of "us" suffers - "us" being the abovementioned author and those who think like him. Yes, we need to be cautious and thoughtful - try working on "thoughtful".
As to the statement that 80% of crimes were committed to get money to buy drugs or in acts associated with drug sales, legalization would solve all of that.
As to "some innocent people will suffer and die" with reduced incarceration of drug offenders, let me point out that "several hundred thousand people" suffer because of being imprisoned by absurd drug laws and sentencing. But hey, that's OK, because it's OK for all of "them" to suffer, as long as none of "us" suffers - "us" being the abovementioned author and those who think like him. Yes, we need to be cautious and thoughtful - try working on "thoughtful".
2
Few are talking about the public safety consequences of these changes, which is concerning. Everyone is focused on those arrested but not on their victims. If anything, the arrested have become the victims.
Living in one of the poorest area's In the country. It shouldn't come to any one's surprise . The county hosts 5 prisons. Any talk of prison closure comes with stiff political resistance. Who pays is the school districts that are challenged with 25 to 30 in a class room. While daddy's sitting in the joint. Junior struggles to learn in environment that is any thing but conducive to learning. Even if a gifted child were to be amongst the fray chances are slim they be able to learn any thing .Simply surviving the circus unharmed is a challenge
5
What many forget and few know is that the U.S. is the world's largest importer of crime. A third of federal inmates are foreign born and at least that many, if not more, are in state prisons and jails. Thieves, rapists, con artists, and gang members all strive to come to America where they can ply their trade with little fear of capture and, if captured, guaranteed a free ride home but only if they want to go home. We are about to enter another period of anarchy like the one that was finally addressed with modest success by Richard Nixon and, later, by Joe Biden and Ronald Reagan.
4
"Nearly half of all current federal prisoners are serving sentences for drug crimes."
In how many of those cases was the drug marijuana?
If marijuana would again be classified based on medical reasoning another step, in addition to the savings projected by returning judicial discretion to federal sentencing, towards saving boatloads of money, the ultimate goal, would be realized.
With more and more states decriminalizing marijuana in state law, in-aggregate public opinion is obviously shifting and undermining continued federal obstinacy.
In how many of those cases was the drug marijuana?
If marijuana would again be classified based on medical reasoning another step, in addition to the savings projected by returning judicial discretion to federal sentencing, towards saving boatloads of money, the ultimate goal, would be realized.
With more and more states decriminalizing marijuana in state law, in-aggregate public opinion is obviously shifting and undermining continued federal obstinacy.
3
Sentencing excesses - as are any injustice - are additional fodder that feeds revolt and revulsion. It will be a salutary accolade to put an end to the gratuitous vengeance that has been allowed to permeate the Judicial System these last several decades... Any of us who have such 'victims' in our family are especially hopeful that the concern that has finally risen in this country ...will quickly lead to the relieving legislation needed to end the travesties that have occurred.
5
Could this be a harbinger of things to come? . . . a sign that rational discussion and analysis of issues is on the horizon? Will problem solving finally and routinely be conducted in the realm of reality where genuine facts and evidence are sacred? Will pigs fly?
3
Can't say it too often -- most nonviolent offenders shouldn't be incarcerated. When this was discussed about a week ago, someone castigated me for advocating no prison for nonviolent criminals -- "what about Madoff?" was his argument. Obviously, there are nonviolent criminals (Madoff being the perfect example) who deserve prison terms, and sometimes very long ones. But the average nonviolent criminal (usually a drug user) needs a little help to redirect his or her life. It's cheaper and more effective to do that, as opposed to imprisoning them.
The states should follow the federal example. And this should be only a first step. The War on Drugs is a losing cause and, even more important, it has been robbing us of our civil liberties. It's difficult to support complete legalization for some drugs (like meth), but we need to de-escalate the war. Drugs should be a social and medical issue, and not a criminal one.
The states should follow the federal example. And this should be only a first step. The War on Drugs is a losing cause and, even more important, it has been robbing us of our civil liberties. It's difficult to support complete legalization for some drugs (like meth), but we need to de-escalate the war. Drugs should be a social and medical issue, and not a criminal one.
3
Perhaps it should be "non-violent drug related" crime?
1
The problem is not exactly the severity of punishment for some types of crime. I understand that our prisons are overcrowded. According to statistics, the number of prisoners serving sentences in America the last 30 years, has increased by at least 4 times. I mean exactly Federal prison population. And it is still growing. This is very bad for Federal budget.
However, in addition to general problems in in the penal system some specific difficulties do not allow to achieve success in the execution of public punishment:
1) Racial discrimination prisoners.
2) The special regime of detention are not legal immigrants.
3) The presence of forced labor.
4) Tortures and corporal punishment by security personnel.
However, in addition to general problems in in the penal system some specific difficulties do not allow to achieve success in the execution of public punishment:
1) Racial discrimination prisoners.
2) The special regime of detention are not legal immigrants.
3) The presence of forced labor.
4) Tortures and corporal punishment by security personnel.
2
Legalize marijuana and tax the sellers. And regulate them.
Legalize personal use of most drugs.
this will eliminate many of the prisoners in both state and federal prisons.
Concentrate on jailing the violent criminals.
Put the non-violent criminals in prison camps and make them work. In counties west of my county, state prisoners in work camps are offered the opportunity to either sit in their cells or work cleaning up trash from the sides of the roads. A lot of them opt for the work detail, even in the heat of summer down here.
Legalize personal use of most drugs.
this will eliminate many of the prisoners in both state and federal prisons.
Concentrate on jailing the violent criminals.
Put the non-violent criminals in prison camps and make them work. In counties west of my county, state prisoners in work camps are offered the opportunity to either sit in their cells or work cleaning up trash from the sides of the roads. A lot of them opt for the work detail, even in the heat of summer down here.
1
The problem is not the sentencing laws, the problem is too many laws for actions that should not be offenses to begin with:
The drug possession laws should be repealed. Adults over the age of 21 can make their own decisions regarding what they should ingest or smoke, not the federal government.
Prostitution should be legalized. Why should acts between two consenting adults be criminalized because money changes hands?
Give me a few minutes, I can certainly come up with far more suggestions.
The drug possession laws should be repealed. Adults over the age of 21 can make their own decisions regarding what they should ingest or smoke, not the federal government.
Prostitution should be legalized. Why should acts between two consenting adults be criminalized because money changes hands?
Give me a few minutes, I can certainly come up with far more suggestions.
3
You mean America will finally enter the 20th century?
See NYT articles re prison policies abroad. ---
more humane, rational methods of drug control, and imprisonment. Punishment yes, but also rehab to get offenders to live as law abiders. Are we the only country that denies the vote to ex felons? And makes it hard to get jobs, training, housing etc?
Are we the only democracy that still keeps the death penalty? With the world's highest incarceration rate by far?
Other democracies have realized our Bill of Rights better than the US. Here politicians try to outdo each other calling for harsh, extreme sentencing. Our racial apartheid, and increasing poverty from millions of jobs offshored give politicians an underclass to use to get elected--- to 'protect ' us.
Our electing instead of appointing judges means whipping up voter fear and hostility and running on conviction rates. Suspects are forced into plea bargains, without trial, to up these rates for prosecutors.
Our constitution has been meaningless here, while it's principals are better realized in countries where criminal justice is separate from politics and rational gun laws protect their citizens from our regular, repeated public massacres.
See NYT articles re prison policies abroad. ---
more humane, rational methods of drug control, and imprisonment. Punishment yes, but also rehab to get offenders to live as law abiders. Are we the only country that denies the vote to ex felons? And makes it hard to get jobs, training, housing etc?
Are we the only democracy that still keeps the death penalty? With the world's highest incarceration rate by far?
Other democracies have realized our Bill of Rights better than the US. Here politicians try to outdo each other calling for harsh, extreme sentencing. Our racial apartheid, and increasing poverty from millions of jobs offshored give politicians an underclass to use to get elected--- to 'protect ' us.
Our electing instead of appointing judges means whipping up voter fear and hostility and running on conviction rates. Suspects are forced into plea bargains, without trial, to up these rates for prosecutors.
Our constitution has been meaningless here, while it's principals are better realized in countries where criminal justice is separate from politics and rational gun laws protect their citizens from our regular, repeated public massacres.
5
The "War on Crime" and the "War on Drugs" is really the war on "The People".
Can you spell R-E-P-E-A-L L-A-W-S ?
Can you spell R-E-P-E-A-L L-A-W-S ?
3
Scale back sentencing is just a start. End the war on drugs. Stop violating civil liberty through tactics like stop and frisk or issuing tickets that lead to arrests for not signaling a lane change. Expunge the felony records of all jailed for drug possession. Get rid of "resisting arrest" as a cover for police brutality.
8
Private prison companies, like Corrections Corporation of America, make money from easy prisoners, like marijuana-users, etc. Is it fair to cut into their profits by implementing shorter sentences or eliminating many prison terms?
They've spent money lobbying: is it right to have them lose the return on this investment? Isn't this un-American?
They've spent money lobbying: is it right to have them lose the return on this investment? Isn't this un-American?
4
As a staff member of Defy Ventures, a non-profit that trains those with criminal backgrounds on how to become entrepreneurs, as well as a formerly incarcerated person, I heartily praise President Obama and his strange bedfellows on both sides of the aisle for finally addressing the societal abomination that is the criminal justice system.
As Dostoevsky wrote, "You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners." While the US has 5% of the world's population, we have 25% of its incarcerated men and women. There's nearly an 80% chance that someone leaving prison will return within 5 years.
Defy is committed to providing second chances to those truly deserving. Those in our program return to prison at a rate less than 5%, because they are afforded realistic opportunities to make a better life for themselves and their families.
Who among us hasn't done something that could have landed them in serious trouble if caught: one extra glass of wine before getting behind the wheel of a car, one extra business expense deduction? Living forever with the stigma of past mistakes is surely the cruelest of punishments.
As Dostoevsky wrote, "You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners." While the US has 5% of the world's population, we have 25% of its incarcerated men and women. There's nearly an 80% chance that someone leaving prison will return within 5 years.
Defy is committed to providing second chances to those truly deserving. Those in our program return to prison at a rate less than 5%, because they are afforded realistic opportunities to make a better life for themselves and their families.
Who among us hasn't done something that could have landed them in serious trouble if caught: one extra glass of wine before getting behind the wheel of a car, one extra business expense deduction? Living forever with the stigma of past mistakes is surely the cruelest of punishments.
7
Strong argument against just changing laws without providing any rehabilitation. My own belief is that making something legal will only lead to people's finding other new illegal activities. Usually, they involve skirting government regulations (ex., taxes).
People have jumped on the legalize marijuana bandwagon but haven't stopped to consider that cigarettes are legal, yet the market for illegal cigarettes is significant. NYC Mayor deBlasio is very actively pursuing these untaxed sales, although he kept this quiet because of Mr. Garner's death.
Here's the problem with cigarettes*:
"In 2010, states with high tobacco taxes lost about $5 billion in revenue because of cigarette smuggling, according to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives. Experts say the number is climbing.
Most of the black market in cigarettes is between low-tax states and high-tax states: Smugglers purchase cigarettes in a low-tax state and transport them to a high-tax state. Then they sell them at a discount to smokers while still pocketing a healthy profit. Because there is such a wide disparity among states' cigarette taxes, the price differential is well worth the risk of smuggling, according to law enforcement officials."
Will legalizing drugs encounter the same problems?
***
* "Cigarette Smuggling Cuts States' Per-Pack Tax Revenues"
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2013/0...
People have jumped on the legalize marijuana bandwagon but haven't stopped to consider that cigarettes are legal, yet the market for illegal cigarettes is significant. NYC Mayor deBlasio is very actively pursuing these untaxed sales, although he kept this quiet because of Mr. Garner's death.
Here's the problem with cigarettes*:
"In 2010, states with high tobacco taxes lost about $5 billion in revenue because of cigarette smuggling, according to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives. Experts say the number is climbing.
Most of the black market in cigarettes is between low-tax states and high-tax states: Smugglers purchase cigarettes in a low-tax state and transport them to a high-tax state. Then they sell them at a discount to smokers while still pocketing a healthy profit. Because there is such a wide disparity among states' cigarette taxes, the price differential is well worth the risk of smuggling, according to law enforcement officials."
Will legalizing drugs encounter the same problems?
***
* "Cigarette Smuggling Cuts States' Per-Pack Tax Revenues"
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2013/0...
1
As someone pointed out in another debate I read about welfare states, "you can either pay for school or prison." I think this knee-jerk reaction against giving anybody handouts is rather ironic when you consider how expensive it is for society when people turn into criminals. Especially waiting for poor people with mental problems to do a crime to put them in prison, seems like a pretty braindead alternative to simply paying for their treatment right away.
Reducing the prison population could free a lot of money that could be used to help the poor and thus also reduce crime. I am not saying poor people are criminals, but that poverty is a factor that works against people when they try to make healthy life choices.
Reducing the prison population could free a lot of money that could be used to help the poor and thus also reduce crime. I am not saying poor people are criminals, but that poverty is a factor that works against people when they try to make healthy life choices.
5
Even if we let out of prison every drug dealer and user from state and federal prison, the overall prison population would fall by only about 20%.
The vast majority of new prisoners since 1985 are violent criminals. It appears the New York Times has forgotten to inform its readers of this fact, since they seem to believe this is entirely a drug policy issue.
Prison populations have been falling since 2009. How many people can we let out of prison before crime starts to spike again?
The vast majority of new prisoners since 1985 are violent criminals. It appears the New York Times has forgotten to inform its readers of this fact, since they seem to believe this is entirely a drug policy issue.
Prison populations have been falling since 2009. How many people can we let out of prison before crime starts to spike again?
1
Yes, and the president doesn't bother mentioning it either. We are supposed to call out, "Hallelujah!" at the symbolic gesture and not probe too deeply or think about what happens when prisoners are released. In other words, not think too much or ask questions. Just the way politicians expect us to behave.
1
A big reasons the American criminal justice is so dysfunctional is because it is largely the product of knee-jerk policies enacted out of fear.
From the 1970s through the early 90s, when the public, egged on by sensationalist media and politicians looking for scapegoats, perceived an unprecedented crime wave. Problems like race riots, serial killers, and drug trafficking made Middle America feel under siege by criminals.
Amidst the panic, politicians passed a"tough on crime" laws and appointed hard-line judges who would uphold those laws. However, like most hasty policies made out of fear, they were poor policies. They increased punishment across the board without looking at the costs and benefits, and failed to consider whether the laws would even achieve their aims.
In subsequent years, politicians saw their mission as upholding this status quo. Challenging these laws was considered political suicide, because it would open a politician to the charge of "soft on crime."
It isn't until these last few years, when the country went into a recession and the public had to take a long, hard look at government spending, to objectively review whether these draconian laws make sense at all.
I hope this isn't a mere swing of the pendulum, but a return to a more sensible and balanced approach to criminal justice.
From the 1970s through the early 90s, when the public, egged on by sensationalist media and politicians looking for scapegoats, perceived an unprecedented crime wave. Problems like race riots, serial killers, and drug trafficking made Middle America feel under siege by criminals.
Amidst the panic, politicians passed a"tough on crime" laws and appointed hard-line judges who would uphold those laws. However, like most hasty policies made out of fear, they were poor policies. They increased punishment across the board without looking at the costs and benefits, and failed to consider whether the laws would even achieve their aims.
In subsequent years, politicians saw their mission as upholding this status quo. Challenging these laws was considered political suicide, because it would open a politician to the charge of "soft on crime."
It isn't until these last few years, when the country went into a recession and the public had to take a long, hard look at government spending, to objectively review whether these draconian laws make sense at all.
I hope this isn't a mere swing of the pendulum, but a return to a more sensible and balanced approach to criminal justice.
3
While any step to dismantle mass incarceration is a positive step, this is a small step.
As Professors Angela Y. Davis and Michelle Alexander have written, prisons have become a major fixture of American business and dismantling the racist War on Drugs and ending mass incarceration of black and brown people would mean the loss of millions of jobs for the prison industrial complex.
Black and brown bodies are needed to fill the beds of the prisons that now dot the American landscape and that replaced factories lost as a result of the deindustrialization of America.
Because these prisons are located in rural white communities and provide whites with a middle class existence, as well as the census benefit that comes from prisoners being counted in the population count of the community in which they are incarcerated, they would vehemently oppose the loss of the black and brown bodies living in their neighborhoods—imagine that.
As Professors Angela Y. Davis and Michelle Alexander have written, prisons have become a major fixture of American business and dismantling the racist War on Drugs and ending mass incarceration of black and brown people would mean the loss of millions of jobs for the prison industrial complex.
Black and brown bodies are needed to fill the beds of the prisons that now dot the American landscape and that replaced factories lost as a result of the deindustrialization of America.
Because these prisons are located in rural white communities and provide whites with a middle class existence, as well as the census benefit that comes from prisoners being counted in the population count of the community in which they are incarcerated, they would vehemently oppose the loss of the black and brown bodies living in their neighborhoods—imagine that.
2
U.S. incarceration rates are high because U.S. crime clearance rates are high. (Clearance rates are calculated by dividing the number of crimes that are "cleared" by arrests.) The high clearance rate encourages crime victims to report crimes that would go unreported in many countires. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, U.S. police clear about 64 percent of murders, 58 percent of assaults, 40 percent of reported rapes, 29 percent of robberies, 22 percent of thefts, 14 percent of car thefts and 13.1 percent of burglaries. Only 36 percent of murderers and only 60 percent of (reported) rapists get away with it. Even some armed robbers, burglars and car thieves go to jail, a clear indication that police are making life too difficult for criminals. The obvious solution is to lower the clearance rates by catching a smaller percent of murderers, muggers, rapists, robbers, thieves, burglars and car thieves. Crime victims could do their part by not reporting crimes. It is estimated that less than 80 percent of rapes go unreported. We should aim for the same level of under reporting in other crime categories. Americans tend to report crimes that would go unreported in most countries because people know no arrest will be made.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/194213/crime-clearance-rate-by-type-i...
http://www.statista.com/statistics/194213/crime-clearance-rate-by-type-i...
William Case:
It seems too many people are inconvenienced by those clearance rates and many don't approve of those high incarceration rates.
Since police work has now been become associated with "racism" and "abuse", we should expect fewer arrests. People will have their dream come true.
It seems too many people are inconvenienced by those clearance rates and many don't approve of those high incarceration rates.
Since police work has now been become associated with "racism" and "abuse", we should expect fewer arrests. People will have their dream come true.
1
In a justice system the punishment should fit the crime. If the prisons overflow then clearly the punishment is worth the risk.
Same goes for illegal immigration...its worth the risk.
The punishment also has to affordable to the state.
The simple solution is the death penalty for the worst offenders to cap the numbers in an affordable prison system.
In this way you can maintain law and order in your country.
What we have is a society steadily moving towards anarchy.
Same goes for illegal immigration...its worth the risk.
The punishment also has to affordable to the state.
The simple solution is the death penalty for the worst offenders to cap the numbers in an affordable prison system.
In this way you can maintain law and order in your country.
What we have is a society steadily moving towards anarchy.
1
What we have is a society steadily moving towards a police state.
1
I wonder how much pressure private prison lobbyists will exert to keep as many people in prison for as long as possible.
8
Let's start with not adding to the prison population by legalizing marijuana.
5
Wait long enough, hardened hearts will soften ... and the stars themselves will burn out.
Congress is responsive to no other force so strong as the fears and parochial interests of the constituents each Member serves. Those fears got the better of us for a long time. But we can see a softening attitudes across a whole spectrum of issues, from gay anything to police abuse of African Americans ... to draconian sentencing laws intended to keep the dangerous away from us. But the consequences such excess have occasioned have become unacceptable.
It's not just about crippling prison costs, but about emptied black communities and destroyed lives incarcerated for extended periods for crimes that don't present a physical danger to communities, during the years when, with support, they could be fashioning productive lives. But many of them never will.
That said, draconian sentencing laws didn't spontaneously generate. They came about as a result of the perception that too-liberal judges were simply releasing predatory criminals into communities because they had been abused as children. There will be consequences to releasing large numbers and to keeping our prisons empty. We must exercise patience, and we owe it to our communities to tie such social forbearance to programs that SUCCEED at rehabilitating offenders by providing them with the means to become productive and not dangerous. If we don't, we'll see Congress pressured to re-enact these laws.
Congress is responsive to no other force so strong as the fears and parochial interests of the constituents each Member serves. Those fears got the better of us for a long time. But we can see a softening attitudes across a whole spectrum of issues, from gay anything to police abuse of African Americans ... to draconian sentencing laws intended to keep the dangerous away from us. But the consequences such excess have occasioned have become unacceptable.
It's not just about crippling prison costs, but about emptied black communities and destroyed lives incarcerated for extended periods for crimes that don't present a physical danger to communities, during the years when, with support, they could be fashioning productive lives. But many of them never will.
That said, draconian sentencing laws didn't spontaneously generate. They came about as a result of the perception that too-liberal judges were simply releasing predatory criminals into communities because they had been abused as children. There will be consequences to releasing large numbers and to keeping our prisons empty. We must exercise patience, and we owe it to our communities to tie such social forbearance to programs that SUCCEED at rehabilitating offenders by providing them with the means to become productive and not dangerous. If we don't, we'll see Congress pressured to re-enact these laws.
4
Thanking God! As a social activist and 3X/current presidential candidate who has been fighting to end drug prohibition for 30 yrs, I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. However, drug use/possession/sale and all victimless/consensual crimes are totally UNconstitutional. Over 12 million people are arrested every year in America, mostly for drug "crimes", +we have approximately 2 million locked up+ enslaved for victimless "crimes". Also, there are approximately 70 million people w/ "criminal" records for such non-crimes, who can never get a legal job again, thus often turn to real crimes to survive, or get paid less than min wage. No! We must stop this cruel outrageous abuse now!
As Pres. Thos. Jefferson said in his only book, "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others." This from the man who wrote our Declaration of Independence and co-wrote the Constitution! He'd know, and we should listen to him, not some misguided/evil politicians + judges who decided that they would steal our basic rights to freedom. Just as politicians once made alcohol, gay sex (which I fought to legalize in my 1st campaign, +won!), + terminating pregnancy illegal, drug laws steal our basic human rights to freedom!
When I am elected president, I will free everyone in jail for victimless crimes, and pardon all I can too. But Congress must act to free the rest! The only way is to threaten states to withhold all federal funds until they do! We must!
As Pres. Thos. Jefferson said in his only book, "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others." This from the man who wrote our Declaration of Independence and co-wrote the Constitution! He'd know, and we should listen to him, not some misguided/evil politicians + judges who decided that they would steal our basic rights to freedom. Just as politicians once made alcohol, gay sex (which I fought to legalize in my 1st campaign, +won!), + terminating pregnancy illegal, drug laws steal our basic human rights to freedom!
When I am elected president, I will free everyone in jail for victimless crimes, and pardon all I can too. But Congress must act to free the rest! The only way is to threaten states to withhold all federal funds until they do! We must!
3
I'm all for revamping the prison system. It's time to stop releasing career criminals who will never be productive citizens. The cost in crime and lost lives is far greater than the cost of prisons. The fact that more and more citizens are now carrying concealed guns just shows how dangerous it's become to even go out shopping. You can't turn on the news without the latest robbery, car jacking, kidnapping, drive by shooting and the majority are caused by those with long criminal records who have been released over and over because of prison crowding. End the war on drugs and lets free up some prison space for those that need to be kept there forever. And then do it.
1
Most of the "non-violent" drug criminals are the folks that break into your car at night, steal your packages by day and break into your house when you are away; they are also part of distribution chains that sell the drugs conveniently close to your schools. As for at-risk and halfway houses, take a look at the before and after statistics for crime in the neighborhoods when those places are opened. Get beyond slogans and canned thoughts before jumping from one packaged conclusion to another.
They need to pass this law and if so make these law retroactive. It's insane that people are serving life sentences for minuscule offenses committed during Reagan's, Bush Sr. or Clinton's "War on Drugs" and now new offenders would be let off the hook. It's a fact that long term sentencing will not deter people from committing small drug related crimes.
3
First, there is nobody serving federal time for anything less than multiple arrests for dealing hard drugs and probably possession of guns too. The reality is that drug gangs have decimated urban communities, regardless of the blame that is bestowed on racist whites and the police. I say go ahead and legalize all drugs. I would be willing to see the result of that experiment. I am betting that it will create many addiction problems and additional government dependency. The government will make the profit instead of the dealers. Maybe it will help the violent crime situation, maybe not. The most important aspect of this is as follows: Has anybody ever seen what cocaine and heroin does to communities and families? Do you really think avoiding deterrence and opening up availability of these substances is a good thing? Sure I want people to stop being loser criminal degenerates as much as the next guy, but I do not live in a fantasy world. Oh, and we all know pot is not the problem.
1
While we're becoming more reasonable, we need to severely limit the unlawful seizure of cash and assets by police during traffic stops. There can be no justification for confiscating money, for no cause, just because an individual possesses it in their car. This is absurd, and a clear violation if the 4th Amendment. Many municipalities see this as a justifiable revenue stream for their police and prosecutors. Time to stop!
10
Liberals love noblesse oblige when it comes in the guise of turning folks loose from prison. It's reparations from white folks, and has a cost-saving patina of rationality to it. But when the half-way houses are to be sited in gentrifying Liberal precincts, oh!, hear the aspiring real estate flippers squeal: "Not In My Backyard!" That's an old story. In due course they'll likely be living under the freeway for "the law, in its majesty, affords the poor the same right as the rich to sleep under bridges," as Montaigne or Montesquieu noted.
2
We can't just release people and say "You're free to go, have a nice life." Some of them have been in prison for a long time and need to re-acclimate to life outside of prison. There are other laws that need to be changed as well so that they can get decent jobs, live in subsidized housing if necessary, get loans if they need schooling for a trade or a degree. It's wrong to release them with no changes in the outside world unless we plan to continue punishing them for low level crimes.
2
Simply releasing people from prison is not a long-term solution. What is required is a national commitment to inclusive public education.
A 2014 report, “The Growth of Incarceration in the United States: Exploring Causes and Consequences,” from the National Research Council of the National Academies, found that “the pervasiveness of imprisonment among men with very little schooling is historically unprecedented, emerging only in the past two decades.”
It noted that “Among white male high school dropouts born in the late 1970s, about one-third are estimated to have served time in prison by their mid-30s.”
Among young black men who’ve dropped out of school, about two-thirds have a prison record by their mid-30s - more than twice the rate for their white counterparts.
About 25 percent of the world’s prisoners - 2.2 million - are held here in America, although we account for about 5 percent of the global population.
Our inmate population is the world’s largest - 5 to 10 times higher than rates in Western Europe and other democracies.
Our failure to offer all our people, particularly the disadvantaged young, a well-funded, grounded-in-the-basics nationwide public school system, has created an ever-expanding population of economically and socially disenfranchised citizens.
Among the young in this group, far too many come to view crime and other anti-social behaviors as appropriate and even necessary responses.
A 2014 report, “The Growth of Incarceration in the United States: Exploring Causes and Consequences,” from the National Research Council of the National Academies, found that “the pervasiveness of imprisonment among men with very little schooling is historically unprecedented, emerging only in the past two decades.”
It noted that “Among white male high school dropouts born in the late 1970s, about one-third are estimated to have served time in prison by their mid-30s.”
Among young black men who’ve dropped out of school, about two-thirds have a prison record by their mid-30s - more than twice the rate for their white counterparts.
About 25 percent of the world’s prisoners - 2.2 million - are held here in America, although we account for about 5 percent of the global population.
Our inmate population is the world’s largest - 5 to 10 times higher than rates in Western Europe and other democracies.
Our failure to offer all our people, particularly the disadvantaged young, a well-funded, grounded-in-the-basics nationwide public school system, has created an ever-expanding population of economically and socially disenfranchised citizens.
Among the young in this group, far too many come to view crime and other anti-social behaviors as appropriate and even necessary responses.
4
The proposals for early release of prisoners are unlikely to save money. A high percentage of those released will be back in court in a couple of years and will raise the costs to the system once again. The road to employment and to family support must be smoothed over, at great cost, in order to end the problem of recidivism. Emptying the prisons is not a cost-saving enterprise. And when Republicans learn of the costly process of rehabilitation, they may well jump ship on reform.
7
Do you have any proof to the statement, A high percentage of those released will be back in court in a couple of years
1
Exactly, right now a lot of roadblocks are put in place to hinder ex-cons from getting on the straight path. They are discriminated in the workplace, have reduced access to welfare programs etc. How is a poorly educated person exiting prison with no money, no place to stay supposed to make it?
For less serious crime ex-cons should not have to inform potential employers about their past. Also a shorter sentence will help getting back to work as one will not be left with long weird gaps in employment and skills wont be as outdated as when you spend a dozen years in prison.
For less serious crime ex-cons should not have to inform potential employers about their past. Also a shorter sentence will help getting back to work as one will not be left with long weird gaps in employment and skills wont be as outdated as when you spend a dozen years in prison.
2
In fact, reducing incarceration has cut costs whenever it is tried (not often enough, or for long enough, but states or local govts go through these spasms once in a while due to overcrowding, budget cuts, etc.). the evidence is simple and consistent: costs go down. Yes, some prisoner will repeat and go back, but the evidence is again consistent and clear: the longer the person is kept locked up the less likely it is that he or she will stay out once let out.
This I do agree with: The road to employment and to family support must be smoothed over, at great cost, in order to end the problem of recidivism."
but that is not an argument against sentencing reform. NO rehab program, job training, education (remedial or otherwise) etc. has ever come close to costing as much as imprisonment. the public is not well informed about just how extravagant a luxury we purchase every time we lock someone up.
It has been very difficult to convince politicians to spend money on rehab and the like, but some are realizing that the alternative--jail and more jail--is even more costly.
This I do agree with: The road to employment and to family support must be smoothed over, at great cost, in order to end the problem of recidivism."
but that is not an argument against sentencing reform. NO rehab program, job training, education (remedial or otherwise) etc. has ever come close to costing as much as imprisonment. the public is not well informed about just how extravagant a luxury we purchase every time we lock someone up.
It has been very difficult to convince politicians to spend money on rehab and the like, but some are realizing that the alternative--jail and more jail--is even more costly.
1
Finally. Some sense seeps in to the prison reform conversation. But the reasoning is still dissonant and can lead to a lot of wrongheaded and arbitrary changes into needed rules and regulations. Sending someone to prison is not an investment, nor should it be looked at solely as a cost. There should be consequences for criminal activity. A person goes to jail for importing lobsters in a box instead of wrapped in plastic. Its a disastrous outcome. But this case was a direct consequence of prosecutorial zeal. Nonetheless the Republican caucus will use this issue to drive changes to regulatory enforcement and spending on that enforcement. This just makes it easier for scofflaws to flout environmental laws, workplace rules and provisions and right on down the line.
The message should be we need prison and sentencing reform, not a dismantling of needed criminal law, rules and regulation.
The message should be we need prison and sentencing reform, not a dismantling of needed criminal law, rules and regulation.
It's about time! And although I have not seen the proposed Bill, it sounds like it doesn't go nearly far enough. This country is the midst of a federal sentencing law crisis. No longer can the federal courts grind out mandatory, disproportionate sentences, the result of which is to overwhelm already bulging prisons and to drain taxpayer funds so that they cannot be used to improve our communities. It's time to roll back the calendar on our federal sentencing laws to a time when judges generally did the right thing--judge-- and exercise informed discretion. And while we're at it, how about enacting some laws that will provide federal judges with the authority to impose alternative, non-custodial sentences and to wipe the slate of deserving offenders clean so they don't suffer the ruinous consequences of a criminal record for the rest of their lives.
3
This is a start, however the backgroung check system needs to be overhaulded as well, misdemeanor 1 years check and feleony 5 years checkthen all can be expunged except for the most onerous of offences
2
Legalization, regulation and taxation of the drug-trade seems like a no-brainer (although where will the CIA go then to fund its off-the-books ventures, back to selling weapons they're not supposed to?). . . That said, minor drug crime reform aside, the crime rate and murder rate is at a 40 year low across America. Cities like Philadelphia and New York City have been experiencing significant real estate investment and revival since the Clinton-Era and Giuliania-Era reforms. Would the drop in crime and murder rate have happened regardless of those reforms because of something bigger going on or has there actually been some validity to them?
7
Crime rate has dropped all over the western world, regardless of policy followed. In e.g. Sweden and the Netherlands prison populations have been dropping at record rates and they are closing down prisons while crime is dropping. Can't remember articles now, but probably possible to google. The point though has been that there are some major underlying causes causing crime drops which are not related to zero-tolerance, three strikes or all sort of though on crime approaches.
If I were to speculate myself I'd say there are multiple reasons why crime is lower today: 1) Relative speaking there are fewer people in the age group most responsible for crime. 2) Bored kids often stay home surfing internet or playing playstation rather than going out causing trouble today. 3) Parents spend a lot more time looking after their kids now. Kids are not left to their own devices to the same extent today as they were in the early 80s. 4) Schools seem more active in fighting bullying and anti-social behavior. 5) The generational gap is a lot smaller. Kids and parents have more in common today than before. We both play computer games and watch Star Wars. You don't have the whole rebel thing rock, punk etc to the same extent.
I picked these because I imagine these are factors which represent trends which are happening all over the western world regardless of the particular crime fighting policy employed by various countries.
If I were to speculate myself I'd say there are multiple reasons why crime is lower today: 1) Relative speaking there are fewer people in the age group most responsible for crime. 2) Bored kids often stay home surfing internet or playing playstation rather than going out causing trouble today. 3) Parents spend a lot more time looking after their kids now. Kids are not left to their own devices to the same extent today as they were in the early 80s. 4) Schools seem more active in fighting bullying and anti-social behavior. 5) The generational gap is a lot smaller. Kids and parents have more in common today than before. We both play computer games and watch Star Wars. You don't have the whole rebel thing rock, punk etc to the same extent.
I picked these because I imagine these are factors which represent trends which are happening all over the western world regardless of the particular crime fighting policy employed by various countries.
Its big business to lock up and warehouse people for the rest of their natural lives. Prison serves as a useful tool in law enforcement but shouldn't be the only tool available to judges and prosecutors. Also rights need to be restored to those who already served their time i.e. right to vote and to drive in some states.
3
I go for long periods of time wondering if there is any spark of intelligence and intent to improve this country by our Congress. Once in a while they come through and display a little. This one of those times. We are way overdue to stop incarcerating larger and larger numbers of our citizens for crimes which do not, in any way shape or form, call for long and senseless prison terms. Maybe Congress can finally get it right.................
4
But wait, I thought Republicans were determined only to thwart Obama, to obstruct any proposed legislation, because he is the first African-American President. Yet here the article describes a Republican party rationally focused on the merits of proposed legislation, looking for areas of agreement with Democrats. What happened to the "obstructionist" narrative? Thoughts?
The "GOP as Obstructionist" narrative had a very good run. When the "Enforcer", Harry Reid, left it was exposed for what it was, which was a convenient subterfuge hiding his and Obama's own obstructionist games.
One other thing:
If you want to change an isolated, economically segregated section of the economy.....
you have to un-isolate it. You have to find the money to finance the refinement of that precious human resource that will end the cycle of predation....
Where will that money come from? Restore the Middle Class and start regulating outsourcing, bringing jobs back in-country....the tax money gained from taxing workers will refill Americas coffers with GOLD......
Historically, the Middle Class has given the most tax dollars to the government.
If you want to change an isolated, economically segregated section of the economy.....
you have to un-isolate it. You have to find the money to finance the refinement of that precious human resource that will end the cycle of predation....
Where will that money come from? Restore the Middle Class and start regulating outsourcing, bringing jobs back in-country....the tax money gained from taxing workers will refill Americas coffers with GOLD......
Historically, the Middle Class has given the most tax dollars to the government.
2
I find it interesting that the New York Times credits President Obama for progress on this issue, when he is the last entrant to the discussion. Rand Paul has been addressing this issue for years as his father did for literally decades before him and Senators Lee and Booker wrote and introduced a bill before the President ever mentioned this issue.
4
COMMON SENSE Perhaps miracles do happen, even from the most unlikely sources. The federal sentencing guidelines have created a huge porkbarrel for owners of private prisons that house many nonviolent criminals who have long sentences for minor infractions such as possession of marijuana. They have also been an extremely unfair, brutal and medically incorrect response to the needs of those prisoners who are there because of crimes related to severe mental illness. Another group that needs to be transferred out are senior prisoners with severe dementia who don't recognize anyone, including immediate family members and can't recall their own identities, leave alone the crimes for which they were sentenced. Due to organic mental illness, they are unable to repay their debt to society. I do wonder why Boehner and Grassley supported this sensible initiative. Is it because they finally wish to legislate and govern?
3
Yes. With elections coming we need to have the Democrat base out and voting.
4
Without ACORN telling them how to vote, this go-round. They'll be better for it.
Cynical but true. Obama's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" approach to crime. Don't look too deeply and then act surprised when the "unintended" consequences arise. (The solutions to those are the republicans' problem.)
Congress long ago passed "mandatory minimums". How about "mandatory maximums", a limitation on maximum terms in prison so that people pleading guilty or convicted of a crime face less of a wild crap shoot when standing before a judge?
Almost all of the prisoners get there through plea bargains (I recall a figure well above 60%). Essentially, they are given a choice: take this very bad choice, a guilty plea, or face the full impact of the courts and the law by risking a trial for which you cannot afford full legal representation. They take the deal. If the courts had to hold formal trials for all the accused, just those arrested this year would likely extend to a couple of decades. Knowing that the deck is stacked against them, the accused make deals every day of the week.
The time might come in the not too distant future when we come to see prison itself as "cruel and unusual punishment" for 70 to 90% of the crimes committed. Yes, there are people who can't be trusted on the streets, but most of the people who go to jail are young men who make some mistakes and, in time, would like to change. (Men generally "age out" of crime by 30 to 35 yrs. old.)
Surely some of the drop in crime rates over the last few decades has resulted from simply keeping people behind bars. But, we need to ask ourselves if there are better ways to get the same results without destroying so many lives. Congress is too slow to act and the people must show them the way.
Almost all of the prisoners get there through plea bargains (I recall a figure well above 60%). Essentially, they are given a choice: take this very bad choice, a guilty plea, or face the full impact of the courts and the law by risking a trial for which you cannot afford full legal representation. They take the deal. If the courts had to hold formal trials for all the accused, just those arrested this year would likely extend to a couple of decades. Knowing that the deck is stacked against them, the accused make deals every day of the week.
The time might come in the not too distant future when we come to see prison itself as "cruel and unusual punishment" for 70 to 90% of the crimes committed. Yes, there are people who can't be trusted on the streets, but most of the people who go to jail are young men who make some mistakes and, in time, would like to change. (Men generally "age out" of crime by 30 to 35 yrs. old.)
Surely some of the drop in crime rates over the last few decades has resulted from simply keeping people behind bars. But, we need to ask ourselves if there are better ways to get the same results without destroying so many lives. Congress is too slow to act and the people must show them the way.
3
Under the Republicans' stewardship, our jails have been bloated and hundred of thousands of Americans' lives have been shattered over minor drug possessions. Mandatory sentencing has removed discretion from federal judges- some of the brightest people in the federal government who are the guardians of our legal system.
After all these years, the Republicans finally tacitly recognize the failure of their policies. But these tough guys are never the ones who pay a price for their tough policies. It is the poor kids who cannot afford an attorney while their government is pushing for the sale of American tobacco products globally and Budweiser's ads are plastered all over America.
After all these years, the Republicans finally tacitly recognize the failure of their policies. But these tough guys are never the ones who pay a price for their tough policies. It is the poor kids who cannot afford an attorney while their government is pushing for the sale of American tobacco products globally and Budweiser's ads are plastered all over America.
3
A full third of the prison population could be gone instantly by enforcing our immigration laws.
5
Reduce sentencing laws = Increase right-to-carry and stand-your-ground gun laws, as is happening. It's back to the future, on the frontier, gun-totin' and self-reliant!
1
This is a wonderful bit of news, without the supporting changes to infrastructure that need to take place simultaneously.
To make this meaningful, there would have to be readily accessible jobs for those with a record.
You would have to start regulating outsourcing to ensure that America was fully employed......
do it!
To make this meaningful, there would have to be readily accessible jobs for those with a record.
You would have to start regulating outsourcing to ensure that America was fully employed......
do it!
4
And maybe limit immigration, legal and otherwise.
1
How about in exchange for lighter sentences, when the prisoners are freed they are sent to a prison colony (like Australia was for Great Britain) and are given jobs manufacturing something or other. If they can show they've become good citizens in the colony after 10 years or so, they can move back to the US.
1
Half of our incarcerated prisoners are non-violent drug offenders. Does this make any sense to anyone? Any sense at all? People are drugs need help, not prison. And we taxpayers need to see them helped, not go to prison because it's a LOT less expensive. Why are we so punitive as a nation? The Drug War/SWAT teams did not help our country one iota. Time to end incarcerating non-violent drug offenders. It's wrong morally and it's wrong economically. Come ON America! Do the right thing!
11
Why are there "drug offenses" in the first place? If women get the right to "control their bodies" by having a baby yanked out of the womb why does the government not allow me the right to "control my body" by ingesting any substance I choose? We live in tyranny and nobody realizes it.
1
It makes plenty of sense to the crime victims. Junkies love to burglarize and pass bad checks and purse-snatch and all kinds of "non-violent" crimes, they usually are too enfeebled to fight. (San Francisco news channels now highlight an epidemic of street crimes since the offenses have been reduced to Misdemeanor status.) Even relatives get restraining orders against junkies. Rehab is often a school for crime with like-minded hedonists and wasted trust fund babies like Michael Skakel. Which is why mandatory sentencing began in the first place, to countermand the bleeding heart judges and their "turnstile justice" thru revolving doors. "Next case, hurry it up!"
Our prison system, particularly state prisons, is form of economic development where rural communities are promised new prisons and jobs by private prison companies in exchange for these communities promising to fill more than 90+% of beds. This has nothing to do with rather or not these people are innocent or guilty, it has everything to do with shareholder profit and jobs in the community. It is a win win for everyone but those accused of a crime.
In a country where a prosecutor does not need to provide exculpatory evidence to a grand jury, where hearsay evidence can be provided to a grand jury, where prosecutorial misconduct in the grand jury rarely results in a case being thrown out justice does not exist. Once indicted, most accused plea bargain because the risk is too high not too. These non-violent felons who just plead their lives away are now nothing but fodder for prison economic development. We as a nation would get more gain from spending dollars on mental health care and education than on feeding a corrupt system. However this is justice in America.
300,000 prisoners in 1970, 2,300,000 prisoners in 2014. $25,000 per prisoner. You do the math.... This nation can do far better.
In a country where a prosecutor does not need to provide exculpatory evidence to a grand jury, where hearsay evidence can be provided to a grand jury, where prosecutorial misconduct in the grand jury rarely results in a case being thrown out justice does not exist. Once indicted, most accused plea bargain because the risk is too high not too. These non-violent felons who just plead their lives away are now nothing but fodder for prison economic development. We as a nation would get more gain from spending dollars on mental health care and education than on feeding a corrupt system. However this is justice in America.
300,000 prisoners in 1970, 2,300,000 prisoners in 2014. $25,000 per prisoner. You do the math.... This nation can do far better.
10
This is a joke. Have you any idea how much paperwork and how many lawyers this will involve. They are licking their chops now. Another boondoggle will be created. The only solution is perhaps another joke, vote people out responsible for this. The law and order people consider inhaling a serious crime but the 2008 market debacle was God wanting the crooks to have the money.
The numbers of people under correctional supervision are even higher than reported here when you consider all those living in communities while on probation or parole. The total number of people under correctional supervision is actually about 5 million. These numbers are large enough that the health of people in jails (most of whom will eventually be released), prison, on probation and on parole has an impact on public health overall. We just posted a powerpoint deck describing the scale of mass incarceration in the US at http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/socialepicluster/mass-incarceration-info-...
4
We should simply release and offer treatment to all those convicted of non-violent drug crimes and going forth mandate treatment and not jail. These people could be productive citizens. The war on drugs is an expensive failure, ill-conceived, and it is time to end it.
5
Our ridiculous and failed so-called anti-drug laws are at the heart of this issue. Until they are reformed, this problem will continue. Also, since the privatization of prisons started, the profit motive to lock people away is in the mix. Two bad ideas that should end soon.
43
Glad there is a focus on mandatory minimum to address prison population. However what really needs focus are the policies that contribute to recidivism, in particular, the crippling effects of a conviction record on future employment.
1
How many of our elected officials would pass a lie detector test for many of the same "crimes" that fill our prisons?
3
Personally I believe mandatory conscription would go a long way to addressing many of our social ills, including mass incarceration. Limited, but important, gun training, physical training, civil emergency training, tied to community projects like habitat-for-humanity, as well as civil defense...would provide for many a chance to experience a greater America, i.e. what is outside the urban ghetto and suburban palisade. It would go a long way to break the cycle of poverty and welfare that is so often tied to crime. It would expose those that otherwise would fall through the cracks in the system (e.g. mental health); and it would provide us all with a shared American experience. Even a mandatory commitment of 1 year would have a positive impact.
3
Ten year minimum sentences for weed? Most Americans think it ought not be a crime at all. No one should be in jail for weed. Americans demand marijuana and it will be supplied. But what will all the jailers do? And what will all the drug warriors do. It is a cinch they won't work.
2
I was a parole agent for 23 years for the California Department of Corrections. I am stunned by how willing liberals are so willing to let these people back in the community. They only have low levels so we shouldn't have to be worried about them
OK, will you still feel this way if this person sells pot to your kids on the way home from school? Will you go up to him/her and thank them?
I guess they should be given multiple chances by the court to complete programs that they've repeatedly failed. After all. practice makes perfect! Let's give them 10, 15 chances. It doesn't matter that they failed over and over again.
Better yet, let's open up halfway houses in your communities. They're not a threat. They just need help. Never mind that's what those court ordered programs are designed to do. All of your are trained drug counselors so you know EXACTLY what needs to be done. If that's the case why didn't you suggest it sooner? We've all been waiting on pins and needles for this. Why wait?
Since they're not threat we will put halfway house across the street from where you live. You should support that? You can help them every day!
Oh we had one 2 blocks from me. My best friend lived across the street. Kids were picking up needles laying in the grass and on 3 separate occasions people were passed out on the grass.
You people are all for letting them out as long as they are not let out in your neighborhood.Then suddenly everything changes and all your posturing means nothing
OK, will you still feel this way if this person sells pot to your kids on the way home from school? Will you go up to him/her and thank them?
I guess they should be given multiple chances by the court to complete programs that they've repeatedly failed. After all. practice makes perfect! Let's give them 10, 15 chances. It doesn't matter that they failed over and over again.
Better yet, let's open up halfway houses in your communities. They're not a threat. They just need help. Never mind that's what those court ordered programs are designed to do. All of your are trained drug counselors so you know EXACTLY what needs to be done. If that's the case why didn't you suggest it sooner? We've all been waiting on pins and needles for this. Why wait?
Since they're not threat we will put halfway house across the street from where you live. You should support that? You can help them every day!
Oh we had one 2 blocks from me. My best friend lived across the street. Kids were picking up needles laying in the grass and on 3 separate occasions people were passed out on the grass.
You people are all for letting them out as long as they are not let out in your neighborhood.Then suddenly everything changes and all your posturing means nothing
5
You handle is HealedByGod, yet it seems he seems to have failed to fix your lack of compassion, forgiveness, and understanding. As someone who knows a lot about parole agents in California, their willful abuses of power, and regular violations of the civil rights of parolees, all I can say is that you, my friend, are an example of the problem with the criminal justice system today. Fortunately, California went through its "realignment" a few years and took most people coming out of prisons out of the clutches of the state's parole agents.
The people you describe can't seem to manage court-ordered treatment or other programs? Well, no surprise there! Many people who commit drug offenses are dysfunctional due to addiction and mental illness, much of which is rooted in their past. I am of the opinion that there is no one in a jail or prison who is not a victim of childhood abuse, much of it sexual. You simply have no idea how soul-killing that kind of thing is, the incredible psychological damage that does. So, you advocate locking these dysfunctional people up? What good will that do? Oh, yes, it will keep them from reoffending. It will also make their mental illnesses and level of dysfunction even worse when they get out--and they will get out. So they self-medicate, violate their terms of parole, and back in jail or prison they go. There has to be a better way. What that is I don't know, but I know that what you advocate is NOT the answer.
The people you describe can't seem to manage court-ordered treatment or other programs? Well, no surprise there! Many people who commit drug offenses are dysfunctional due to addiction and mental illness, much of which is rooted in their past. I am of the opinion that there is no one in a jail or prison who is not a victim of childhood abuse, much of it sexual. You simply have no idea how soul-killing that kind of thing is, the incredible psychological damage that does. So, you advocate locking these dysfunctional people up? What good will that do? Oh, yes, it will keep them from reoffending. It will also make their mental illnesses and level of dysfunction even worse when they get out--and they will get out. So they self-medicate, violate their terms of parole, and back in jail or prison they go. There has to be a better way. What that is I don't know, but I know that what you advocate is NOT the answer.
As usual, the TIMES and the echo chamber on the left and right in Congress are missing some important points.
For the last 7 years the Obama Administration, and until recently Eric Holder, has run USDOJ. They had the ability to control the selection, appointment, and policies of 92 US Attorneys nation-wide and set guidelines for sentencing recommendations. Ask any CAREER (non-political) federal prosecutor whether they are over-incarcerating and they will explain that most of the people getting really long sentences, deserve really long sentences.
An even bigger issue missed by this article is the fact that FEDERAL prosecutions and FEDERAL prisons make up a relatively small part of overall prosecution and incarceration in the United States. This is a federal republic and 90%+ of all prosecutions and prisoners are in 50 different STATE prisons, prosecuted by local - usually elected - prosecutors. The federal government not only has no control over these offices, but pretty much abandoned funding significant grants during the Bush 43 administration.
At the end of the day pundits try to reconcile headlines that say "Violent Crime at 30-year Low" alongside another headline saying "Prison Population at All-time High." It does not take a rocket scientists to figure out the correlation.
For the last 7 years the Obama Administration, and until recently Eric Holder, has run USDOJ. They had the ability to control the selection, appointment, and policies of 92 US Attorneys nation-wide and set guidelines for sentencing recommendations. Ask any CAREER (non-political) federal prosecutor whether they are over-incarcerating and they will explain that most of the people getting really long sentences, deserve really long sentences.
An even bigger issue missed by this article is the fact that FEDERAL prosecutions and FEDERAL prisons make up a relatively small part of overall prosecution and incarceration in the United States. This is a federal republic and 90%+ of all prosecutions and prisoners are in 50 different STATE prisons, prosecuted by local - usually elected - prosecutors. The federal government not only has no control over these offices, but pretty much abandoned funding significant grants during the Bush 43 administration.
At the end of the day pundits try to reconcile headlines that say "Violent Crime at 30-year Low" alongside another headline saying "Prison Population at All-time High." It does not take a rocket scientists to figure out the correlation.
3
When banks or drug companies break the law, they're given "deferred prosecution" and told to clean up their acts (one drug company had three deferred prosecutions). But in three-strikes-you're-out states, some people are serving life sentences for stealing a bicycle.
4
The banker has bought and owns the politician. In this country two persons committing the same crime will be prosecuted and punished differently depending on whether you go to court in a three-piece suit surrounded by lawyers, or are taken there in torn jeans with a cop holding you by the shoulder. The apartheid of money.
What about the 2.2 million people already in prisons & jails, not to mention those on probation/parole/supervised-release? Our prison population and it's costs, both human and monetary, won't be downsized any too soon unless those folks sentenced under ultra harsh laws are enjoined in relief. The criminal justice system in this country is big, big business with hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake (and corporate profits in some cases). Many factions have interests in keeping the prison population as is, so any attempt to change laws that threaten the industry will be met with headwinds. Just sayin' the obvious.
3
Reducing our dependence on punishment and incarceration--at both federal and state levels--should be accompanied by reforms for increased rehabilitation, after imprisonment, to drastically reduce recidivism. According to a 2014 study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), Recidivism of State Prisoners Released in 2005, an estimated two-thirds (68 percent) of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of release from prison, and three-quarters (77 percent) were arrested within five years. More than a third (37 percent) of prisoners who were arrested within five years of release were arrested within the first six months after release, with more than half (57 percent) arrested by the end of the first year. Not pursuing reforms, urgently, to reduce incarceration and improve rehabilitation, at both federal and state levels, is a crime adversely impacting on our entire society.
3
The War on Drugs has been a disaster for American liberty since Day 1. End it NOW. End federal funding for militarized police drug enforcement NOW. End mandatory minimums NOW.
2
Just remember these facts:
Joe Biden was one of the most vocal advocates of the war on drugs:
“I am not only the guy who did the crime bill and the drug czar, but I’m also the guy who spent years when I was chairman of the Judiciary Committee and chairman of [the Senate Foreign Relations Committee] trying to change drug policy relative to cocaine, for example, crack and powder,” Biden says.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/07/joe-biden-remains-anti-legalization-im-t
And John Boehner is clearly one of the people who who brought about changes in sentencing reform:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-boehner-criminal-justuce-reform...
When will people realize that stereotypes of political parties only get in the way of progress?
Joe Biden was one of the most vocal advocates of the war on drugs:
“I am not only the guy who did the crime bill and the drug czar, but I’m also the guy who spent years when I was chairman of the Judiciary Committee and chairman of [the Senate Foreign Relations Committee] trying to change drug policy relative to cocaine, for example, crack and powder,” Biden says.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/07/joe-biden-remains-anti-legalization-im-t
And John Boehner is clearly one of the people who who brought about changes in sentencing reform:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-boehner-criminal-justuce-reform...
When will people realize that stereotypes of political parties only get in the way of progress?
3
Next question: When will people stop fixating on "corporations making profits" as a cause for all our problems? It also leads to distorted thinking.
The current projection in legalizing marijuana will go a long way in lowering incarceration levels. The illegal marijuana trade will go the way that bootlegging did after prohibition ended. The violence associated with smuggling along with arrests for "possession with intent" will be lowered significantly.
4
Until the discussion shifts from how long people are incarcerated to why, this country will still have an inordinately high prison and jail populations because relaxing the rules, cutting the penalties and doing nothing to address the social issues (that make crime and the easy way out a societal norm) will just make all of us less safe.
Ah the fruits of the Obama Era.
Ah the fruits of the Obama Era.
10
Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight website* calls mass incarceration a "much thornier" issue than just dealing with drug offenders:
"According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the latest jail statistics are from midyear 2014, and the latest prison statistics from year-end 2013.) That’s an incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population.
Suppose every federal drug offender were released today. That would cut the incarceration rate to about 693 inmates per 100,000 population. Suppose further that every drug offender in a state prison were also released. That would get the rate down to 625. It’s a significant drop, no question — these hypothetical measures would shrink the overall prison population by about 14 percent."
*****
* "Releasing Drug Offenders Won’t End Mass Incarceration",
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders-wont-end-mas...
"According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the latest jail statistics are from midyear 2014, and the latest prison statistics from year-end 2013.) That’s an incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population.
Suppose every federal drug offender were released today. That would cut the incarceration rate to about 693 inmates per 100,000 population. Suppose further that every drug offender in a state prison were also released. That would get the rate down to 625. It’s a significant drop, no question — these hypothetical measures would shrink the overall prison population by about 14 percent."
*****
* "Releasing Drug Offenders Won’t End Mass Incarceration",
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders-wont-end-mas...
4
To DC Barrister: So President Obama is personally responsible for people who HAVE BEEN IN JAIL FOR THE PAST THIRTY YEARS? Where is the logic? How can that possibly be the case? Do you understand simple math? Do you have no shame whatsoever?
9
That's a glib and facile comment. I'll bet you have no experience with an incarcerated loved one given a ridiculously harsh sentence. Do a little research and soul searching and think for yourself. And why is everything always Obama's fault?
4
what's missing?... yes it costs ++$ to lock up a person and care for his basic needs.. but how is he going to care for himself in a society that finds him.... generally uneducated (large proportion of incarcerated felons I've seen have dropped out of school), generally unemployable (save the lucrative, yet risky job of dealing drugs .. again, inmates have candidly told me dealing pays a lot more than minimum wage).. .. often struggling with mental illness... What $$ have been allocated to address these issues at the source... before we unlock the gates?... prior planning prevents... what kind of performance?
5
And as John Oliver so eloquently put it...make these changes retroactive to the people already incarcerated because of ridiculous sentences.
6
There was a reason originally for present sentencing policy. What was the reason? And, did this work to reduce crime? We all hear there has been a reduction in violent crimes - is that true? Will there be more crime with lighter sentencing laws? If so, what types of crimes?
Maybe its like immunizations. They work so well that people forget what it was like before immunizations.
Lastly, it doesn't seem clear (maybe I'm not listening) if this only regards illegal drugs, only decriminalizing their use, or is something more involved? Will violent crimes also be in the lighter sentencing policy as well?
Maybe its like immunizations. They work so well that people forget what it was like before immunizations.
Lastly, it doesn't seem clear (maybe I'm not listening) if this only regards illegal drugs, only decriminalizing their use, or is something more involved? Will violent crimes also be in the lighter sentencing policy as well?
7
Yes, and when crime rates start to go up again, we'll be back on the see-saw. 1 to 2% of the population needs to be in prison to maintain that decrease.
The prime mover on this issue on the GOP side has been Sen. Rand Paul. It's shameless how the NYT wishes to distort the narrative and ignore Sen. Paul's leadership on this and other issues, preferring to shove Donald Trump and Jeb Bush down our throats while Senator Paul does sincere and meaningful work across the aisle.
10
This is how crazy the laws have changed based on personal experience. Mid 1970's as a young man in his 20's and part of that era's counter-culture. I acted as a middle man - I had several friends who smuggled small amounts of Mexican pot and with another set of friends who wanted to purchase 5,000 pounds of pot, not knowing one of these friends had been busted by the feds. The amount of pot and cash was suggested by the friend who was now working off a deal with the feds. So long story because it seemed like a good quick deal and yes, I would a couple of thousand dollars for putting the two groups together. My smuggling friends were able to deliver the 5,000 pounds and we were busted.
With no past arrest, I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 5-years probation and ended up doing only three yeas probation since I obeyed all the requirements. My friends got similar sentences. Today the same crime is 10-years to life and a 4-million dollar fine.
With no past arrest, I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 5-years probation and ended up doing only three yeas probation since I obeyed all the requirements. My friends got similar sentences. Today the same crime is 10-years to life and a 4-million dollar fine.
5
So how will congress quiet the lobbyist who want to build more prisons because there is now and has been a whole lucrative industry of prison building and security firms. I will believe it when they pass the bill and when I see to what extent they are willing to change.
4
You shoot and kill a man, 25 years to life.
You fraud and upend the financial lives of thousands, none to 6 months.
Justice for All?
You fraud and upend the financial lives of thousands, none to 6 months.
Justice for All?
6
Should killing a man be less significant than taking his stuff?
1
'For instance, they cite the case of a man who spent six years in a federal prison for importing Honduran lobsters that were packed in plastic — as opposed to cardboard — boxes.'
Nice story - but it isn't true. The case of long time seafood importer and shyster Abner Schoenwetter and his associates has become part of urban folklore. Shame on the NYT for not doing a better job fact checking the claims. For the real story start by reading http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059964426
Nice story - but it isn't true. The case of long time seafood importer and shyster Abner Schoenwetter and his associates has become part of urban folklore. Shame on the NYT for not doing a better job fact checking the claims. For the real story start by reading http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059964426
3
Thank goodness for Libertarians. Keeping everyone sane.
4
The explanation to the accompanying graphic is misleading. While it is true that the majority of growth in state prisons, as shown, is in violent offenders, the number of recently added drug offenders in both state and federal prisons is still a large number, and a significant proportion of overall growth.
2
Whether guided by financial and moral humanitarian imperatives or the considerations of political correctness, the Congressional consensus on the criminal justice system reforms is a major step towards addressing the problem of overcrowded jails as also an effort for social rehabilitation of the innocents thrown into jails for being resource deprived. It's really a long overdue legal reform.
6
What Congress does will have little effect on the average crimes and criminals, who are charged under state laws and prosecuted by county prosecutors.
If you read the police blotter in local newspapers outside large metropolitan areas, you get a better idea of what really goes on:
A guy gets drunk, beats up his girlfriend, then flees in his car and smashes into a police cruiser. He jumps out and punches two policemen, who arrest him in a violent take-down.
A drug dealer has a beef with a supplier, and decides to shoot him. He pulls up, opens fire, but hits a child instead. He drives off at full speed and hits a tree. Cops arrest him at the hospital.
Two guys decide to stick up a gas station with a fake gun, but the gas station clerk detects the fake, beats them up with the assistance of two customers, and they are hauled off by laughing cops.
This is not really crime as we think about it, but the sheer stupidity of low-class people who act impulsively. The county prosecutors and the local cops have to clean up these kinds of messes all the time. What to do with people like this?
If you read the police blotter in local newspapers outside large metropolitan areas, you get a better idea of what really goes on:
A guy gets drunk, beats up his girlfriend, then flees in his car and smashes into a police cruiser. He jumps out and punches two policemen, who arrest him in a violent take-down.
A drug dealer has a beef with a supplier, and decides to shoot him. He pulls up, opens fire, but hits a child instead. He drives off at full speed and hits a tree. Cops arrest him at the hospital.
Two guys decide to stick up a gas station with a fake gun, but the gas station clerk detects the fake, beats them up with the assistance of two customers, and they are hauled off by laughing cops.
This is not really crime as we think about it, but the sheer stupidity of low-class people who act impulsively. The county prosecutors and the local cops have to clean up these kinds of messes all the time. What to do with people like this?
13
I'm all for revision- reform of draconian prison sentences, etc., (whatever you call it) but, you've given examples of domestic violence, trashing police property, assaulting police, as well as murder of a child via crossfire. (Though I am a tree hugger, I won't quibble about the poor tree). Could you please clarify why or how you consider these actions "stupidity of low class people who act impulsively," rather "really crime"? With all do respects, you've lost me.
Focusing on the sentencing back-end of the American mass incarceration criminal injustice system treats a symptom of the problem rather than the fundamental structural problems that corrupt and corrode the system from the beginning.
America has 25% of the world prison population with 5% of the world's Earthlings. Of the 2.3 million Americans in prison, 40% are disproportionately poor black-12% of Americans- non-violent illegal drugs users and those in possession of illegal drugs. Drugs are primarily a health medical issue akin to alcohol and tobacco. Legalization, regulation, education and taxation is the best approach to illegal drugs.
Deciding who should go to prison and why is the only way to engage in significant criminal justice reform. Tackling the problem at the initial stage is the most likely wise effective solution choice. Prison should be reserved for organized, chronic, career, violent criminals who do the most damage to our socioeconomic political educational well being. Prison is intended to remove, punish, deter and rehabilitate criminals. Sentencing reform should also focus on these issues.
America has 25% of the world prison population with 5% of the world's Earthlings. Of the 2.3 million Americans in prison, 40% are disproportionately poor black-12% of Americans- non-violent illegal drugs users and those in possession of illegal drugs. Drugs are primarily a health medical issue akin to alcohol and tobacco. Legalization, regulation, education and taxation is the best approach to illegal drugs.
Deciding who should go to prison and why is the only way to engage in significant criminal justice reform. Tackling the problem at the initial stage is the most likely wise effective solution choice. Prison should be reserved for organized, chronic, career, violent criminals who do the most damage to our socioeconomic political educational well being. Prison is intended to remove, punish, deter and rehabilitate criminals. Sentencing reform should also focus on these issues.
3
Indeed. Let's not forget the "rehabilitation" component for true reform and lasting prison population reduction.
1
Good. Congress is finally considering the human toll of our punitive society rather than just financial costs.
In my view, criminals are made; not born. (It's hard to Imagine looking at a tiny newborn full of promise and concluding it's destiny is crime.)
Thus, it's imperative we address societal/familial dynamics that abuse, harm, or fail to meet the critical needs of our youth which result in messed up minds and acting-out behavior. For which we all pay a price.
And regarding drug use. Drugs are a way to alter one's consciousness. It's what we humans have always done for emotional escape from a reality with which we can no longer cope. And many if not most of us have used, even abused, alcohol, prescription/illegal drugs to accomplish that goal. (Otherwise there wouldn't be drug cartels.).
Therefore, It could be said that those locked up were--on many levels--the most egregiously hurt and let down; thus who are in need of the most help.
So, while scaling back sentencing we must also consider not only how to help but also how to address the core issues that cause crime in the first place. And that includes identifying those with serious mental health issues & making sure they get necessary treatment.
A step in the right crime/drug-reduction direction would be commonplace/commonsense birth control. That could prevent 3.4 million unintended pregnancies in the US per year. Many involving those already struggling unable to meet the needs of a developing child.
In my view, criminals are made; not born. (It's hard to Imagine looking at a tiny newborn full of promise and concluding it's destiny is crime.)
Thus, it's imperative we address societal/familial dynamics that abuse, harm, or fail to meet the critical needs of our youth which result in messed up minds and acting-out behavior. For which we all pay a price.
And regarding drug use. Drugs are a way to alter one's consciousness. It's what we humans have always done for emotional escape from a reality with which we can no longer cope. And many if not most of us have used, even abused, alcohol, prescription/illegal drugs to accomplish that goal. (Otherwise there wouldn't be drug cartels.).
Therefore, It could be said that those locked up were--on many levels--the most egregiously hurt and let down; thus who are in need of the most help.
So, while scaling back sentencing we must also consider not only how to help but also how to address the core issues that cause crime in the first place. And that includes identifying those with serious mental health issues & making sure they get necessary treatment.
A step in the right crime/drug-reduction direction would be commonplace/commonsense birth control. That could prevent 3.4 million unintended pregnancies in the US per year. Many involving those already struggling unable to meet the needs of a developing child.
6
Thank you again, John Oliver: rapidly becoming the conscience of our country.
8
Well, thanks to the GOP focus on cutting spending, there's a chance that the non-violent imprisoned may be able to get out and get back to work so that they can pay taxes rather than deplete our coffers.
Too bad the GOP didn't do it for reasons that have to do with humanitarian concern for those who have been incarcerated needlessly.
Lesson: dangle tax savings in front of the GOP's needy voters and you might be able to do away with prisons altogether. Work release? Nah. Tax relief. :)
Too bad the GOP didn't do it for reasons that have to do with humanitarian concern for those who have been incarcerated needlessly.
Lesson: dangle tax savings in front of the GOP's needy voters and you might be able to do away with prisons altogether. Work release? Nah. Tax relief. :)
You're wrong. Republicans did it for the same reasons as the Democrats, and you're inferring your opinion from your ideology and not the facts.
Legislation is a learning process. Democrats and Republicans both thought that strict punishment would curb drug use and sales. They learned otherwise and now are changing directions.
Legislation is a learning process. Democrats and Republicans both thought that strict punishment would curb drug use and sales. They learned otherwise and now are changing directions.
1
Sorry, you're wrong.
The war on drugs and the efforts to increase mandatory jail time began with none other than Mr. GOP/no taxes poster boy Ronald Reagan.
Over his eight years in office, Reagan ratcheted up the pressure to imprison so that, while overall crime convictions grew something like 25%, arrests for drugs grew by over 100%.
Bush 1 could tell a good campaign ploy when he saw one, so by his end of term we had a national "Drug czar" to keep an eye on the "problem" which was, in fact, rapidly morphing from drug abuse to a matter of grave racial disparity. That was of no interest to anyone in that "break-through" GOP House crowd of '92 with its infamous Newt Gingrich (R-Georgia) in charge. Result: surprise! Even considering the matter was became an impossibility, leaving Democrats virtually no choice but to stand aside, thanks to the national jail 'em fever.
Thus, by the end of Bush II's tenure in 2008, of the nearly 1-1/2 million arrested for drugs each year, a half-million -- no kiddin' -- would end up in prisons.
Amen!
The war on drugs and the efforts to increase mandatory jail time began with none other than Mr. GOP/no taxes poster boy Ronald Reagan.
Over his eight years in office, Reagan ratcheted up the pressure to imprison so that, while overall crime convictions grew something like 25%, arrests for drugs grew by over 100%.
Bush 1 could tell a good campaign ploy when he saw one, so by his end of term we had a national "Drug czar" to keep an eye on the "problem" which was, in fact, rapidly morphing from drug abuse to a matter of grave racial disparity. That was of no interest to anyone in that "break-through" GOP House crowd of '92 with its infamous Newt Gingrich (R-Georgia) in charge. Result: surprise! Even considering the matter was became an impossibility, leaving Democrats virtually no choice but to stand aside, thanks to the national jail 'em fever.
Thus, by the end of Bush II's tenure in 2008, of the nearly 1-1/2 million arrested for drugs each year, a half-million -- no kiddin' -- would end up in prisons.
Amen!
With all the research info about prisoners we should be able to sentence according to the desire for a particular person to recover for drug addiction, alcoholism and criminal thinking.
1
A sentence of imprisonment should fit both the crime and the criminal. The Federal Sentencing Guidelines attempted this and, on the whole, has been a catastrophic failure, removing the Court form sentencing and putting punishment in the hands of bureaucrats and a rigid formula. Yes, there was sentencing disparities in the past and yes blacks and hispanics (75% of the prison population) bore the brunt of it but that's no reason to, essentially, pile it on. A better way needs to be found.
2
Libertarians have taken this position for fifty years, nice to see the President and Congress catching up, thanks, Edward Smith.
8
Congress has two choices in sentencing. Give judges discretion, and the same crime will be sentenced differently all over the country or prescribe specific sentences and judges will lose the discretion to sentence different offenders according to specific factors. There is no third choice. Sentencing in the federal system is imperfect and Congress must choose among imperfect options. And while Congress can legislate lighter sentences, you also need judges who don't regularly sentence to the max.
2
My personal opinion on the issue of incarceration is that the prisoners, for whatever reason, were put into prison for a reason. To reduce the number of incarcerations and jail time for certain prisoners seemed absurd to me at first glance as my initial reaction is one for concern with personal safety. There are outliers to my opinion, of course, such as the man mentioned in Ms. Steinhauer's article for an unregulated transportation of lobsters. But the concern lies with those cases such as drug abusers who have the ability to gain a shorter term, or alternative treatments for their addiction. What would happen to the security of the American public if this issue resolved into a situation of not doing anything at all about the minor issues and focusing on the larger scale incidents? Some may see the United States' ranking as No. 2 in the world for incarcerations as a reflection on the government's undue harshness to crime. Call me old fashioned, but I see it as a sort of stamp of security. The police do their jobs and report those who break the law and assign a court date, but it is up to those courts to apply the law and give them the punishment the law sees fit. If the law calls the crime a person has committed one worthy of getting that person off the streets, I am not one who wants to question whoever's judgement that falls on. As mentioned, there is sometimes not room to accommodate all the prisoners, which is where an alternative could play out for those who qualify.
2
Brady, it has nothing to do with being old-fashioned or new-style. Legislation on all matters is a learning process. When these drastic sentences were created it was thought that they would decrease the use of drugs and their sales. We have learned that the opposite happened.
There's disagreement on why this happened, but no one disagrees that it did, and this problem must be addressed. We can't wait, nor can we ignore it.
I'm speaking as a very conservative thinker who believes that we must prioritize the conservation of our free society.
There's disagreement on why this happened, but no one disagrees that it did, and this problem must be addressed. We can't wait, nor can we ignore it.
I'm speaking as a very conservative thinker who believes that we must prioritize the conservation of our free society.
1
This is very welcome news, long overdue, but lets not quibble. Up here in Canada, which has emulated America in all things good and bad, for as long we have existed side by side, we are in the process of beginning to construct the prison system you are about to dismantle.
Despite all statistics, the Conservative Harper government has decided that we are under siege from rampant and violent criminality. Mandatory minimum sentences will soon fill up the vast jails and remand centers that are being built. The remand center just finished in Edmonton looks like it was built to house a massive detritus from the coming apocalypse.
Our national broadcaster even brought up one of the engineers of your now proven to have failed prison ideology who admitted how wrong headed it all was. He was flummoxed to understand why we are adopting something that clearly had not worked for America.
Kudos all round to America for this bipartisan attempt to make this right. May we finally elect a government that does the same thing. Sadly we lag behind and the big machine has been set in motion. It will be decades before the behemoths we have just built can be turned into malls. Sigh.
Despite all statistics, the Conservative Harper government has decided that we are under siege from rampant and violent criminality. Mandatory minimum sentences will soon fill up the vast jails and remand centers that are being built. The remand center just finished in Edmonton looks like it was built to house a massive detritus from the coming apocalypse.
Our national broadcaster even brought up one of the engineers of your now proven to have failed prison ideology who admitted how wrong headed it all was. He was flummoxed to understand why we are adopting something that clearly had not worked for America.
Kudos all round to America for this bipartisan attempt to make this right. May we finally elect a government that does the same thing. Sadly we lag behind and the big machine has been set in motion. It will be decades before the behemoths we have just built can be turned into malls. Sigh.
30
Our most severe sentencing guidelines were implemented during a very bad time in the US. Violence was a scourge of the crack epidemic. People were committing horrendous crimes because of it. Major US cities were hard hit.
That has changed, so it's time to lighten up. Until the next epidemic of violence comes along.
That has changed, so it's time to lighten up. Until the next epidemic of violence comes along.
1
Canada is emulating us on prison and we're emulating Canada on health care. Taxes up and care down. Guess we will never learn!
1
What "staggers" me is how this has become a national discussion in a nation of 300 million Americans, and nobody, not Obama, not the Times, none of the leading voices in America that we all depend on for thoughtful commentary and clear news facts has even mentioned behavior.
I have heard every speech Mr. Obama has given on this, even the made for TV mockumentary he did in an Oklahoma prison. Not a word about behavior. Same in Baltimore. Same in Ferguson. Taking a genuine interest in young people, and as my grandmother used to say "jerking a knot" in someone when they need it (i.e. discipline and accountability, however your family traditions define it) is ALSO needed.
Sure, close all the prisons, make everything legal, abolish law enforcement. Live Obama's dream.
But is there a slight chance that we as a nation can have a conversation about parenting? About attitudes? About understanding and acceptance?
No, that's decent talk that will improve America.
I've met Barack Obama, and I live in Washington DC, working on Capitol Hill. Decency doesn't exist in the White House, or on the political left. It's all about Obama's ego and insulting the nearest Conservative.
It's as if we are all sentenced to malaise, division and the status quo, isn't it?
I have heard every speech Mr. Obama has given on this, even the made for TV mockumentary he did in an Oklahoma prison. Not a word about behavior. Same in Baltimore. Same in Ferguson. Taking a genuine interest in young people, and as my grandmother used to say "jerking a knot" in someone when they need it (i.e. discipline and accountability, however your family traditions define it) is ALSO needed.
Sure, close all the prisons, make everything legal, abolish law enforcement. Live Obama's dream.
But is there a slight chance that we as a nation can have a conversation about parenting? About attitudes? About understanding and acceptance?
No, that's decent talk that will improve America.
I've met Barack Obama, and I live in Washington DC, working on Capitol Hill. Decency doesn't exist in the White House, or on the political left. It's all about Obama's ego and insulting the nearest Conservative.
It's as if we are all sentenced to malaise, division and the status quo, isn't it?
2
To DCBarrister: Your hypocrisy is astonishing. You decry the fact that we as a nation don't have a discussion about parenting, and you blame Obama. Well, President and Mrs. Obama are by all counts FLAWLESS parents. They have done an amazing job of raising their daughters. Why aren't you criticizing GW Bush for his daughters' underage drinking? Or Jeb Bush's daughter for her drug problem?
Sarah Palin's unmarried daughter is on her second pregnancy by two different men, and yet the failure in parenting belongs to Obama? Try peddling your hatred elsewhere.
Sarah Palin's unmarried daughter is on her second pregnancy by two different men, and yet the failure in parenting belongs to Obama? Try peddling your hatred elsewhere.
State and county are where the big numbers are. And so many are held on ridicules grounds. Like putting people back in prison forcing them to complete long term sentencing because they were a few minutes late to a probation or parol meeting or they fail a urine test.
1
It's amazing to me , seeing the US has the worst criminals in the world , some who have killed hundreds and thousands of people , others who have stolen trillions of dollars , as examples for the population , that it's not full scale anarchy . These criminals are the thieving robber barons on Wall st. and the right wing fascist' in government who have killed many , many people and they do it all with impunity , no one is ever even accused , much less brought up on charges , and none are in prison where they belong . When people are shot down because they ran from police , arrested because they had the temerity to quote their constitutional rights to police , arrested for 'not moving fast enough' for police , killed or arrested for no crime but being there , the problem goes a lot deeper than just sentencing guidelines .
2
I don't know if its just coincidental timing, but once again, something that aired on John Oliver's "Last Week Tonight" on Sunday appears to get traction the following week. I am happy to see him use his show to elicit positive action...I think he learned well from Jon Stewart and his push for Ground Zero first responders and benefits for Vets. It's just a shame that it takes comedians to finally get government moving...
4
I have tears of joy reading about this. May I suggest that Governments at different levels in the declassify marijuna from being a Schedule 1 drug.
2
Federal criminal justice reform is more important than raw imprisonment totals -- federal vs. state vs. local --reveal on first look. Reasons include:
1) Congress played both a leadership role and used financial incentives and mandates to drive up imprisonment rates in the states.
Example: Congress eliminated parole in 1986, then offered federal funding to states that did the same. Most states, plus Washington, D.C., took the money and implemented so-called "truth in sentencing" laws. Similar "incentive grants" should be offered to states reversing the error.
2) Federal prisons may account for only 10% of the nation's prison population, but it is still by far the nation's largest prison system.
The feds hold 80,000 more prisoners than California and 140,000 more than New York. Of course, the federal government has fewer prisoners than all 50 states and 3,000 local governments combined. But, whether he likes it or not, President Obama is the nation's top warden-in-chief , running the biggest system in need of reform.
3) Federal prisons hold mostly the offenders most in need of shortened sentences -- 49% drugs, 9% immigration. In addition, a good share of those serving time for violent and property crimes are Native Americans, doing more time than they would in state systems. The federal prisons are a repository of racial and ethnic bias.
The federal prison population needs to drop from 208,000 to less than 100,000 to return to historical levels.
1) Congress played both a leadership role and used financial incentives and mandates to drive up imprisonment rates in the states.
Example: Congress eliminated parole in 1986, then offered federal funding to states that did the same. Most states, plus Washington, D.C., took the money and implemented so-called "truth in sentencing" laws. Similar "incentive grants" should be offered to states reversing the error.
2) Federal prisons may account for only 10% of the nation's prison population, but it is still by far the nation's largest prison system.
The feds hold 80,000 more prisoners than California and 140,000 more than New York. Of course, the federal government has fewer prisoners than all 50 states and 3,000 local governments combined. But, whether he likes it or not, President Obama is the nation's top warden-in-chief , running the biggest system in need of reform.
3) Federal prisons hold mostly the offenders most in need of shortened sentences -- 49% drugs, 9% immigration. In addition, a good share of those serving time for violent and property crimes are Native Americans, doing more time than they would in state systems. The federal prisons are a repository of racial and ethnic bias.
The federal prison population needs to drop from 208,000 to less than 100,000 to return to historical levels.
1
Go ahead if you want to have your children step on junkies used needles and have your car windows smashed. Drug use is not a victimless crime.
2
Did it ever occur to you that if drugs were legalized or decriminalized there would not be smashed car windows? And I find your whole comment specious.
I'd be curious to know what the incarceration rate was when unions were not demonized and there was a strong blue collar population in America.
1
You play, you pay. Too bad.
The act of committing a crime is a conscious decision and should be punished as such.
The act of committing a crime is a conscious decision and should be punished as such.
2
But we need to differentiate between punishment and revenge.
1
The old joke is: To err is human. It takes a computer to really screw things up.
Crime (human error) and the government's approach to punishment for misdeeds (the computer) proves the truth of this bit of humor, only the truth is anything but humorous. Some one takes a forbidden path in life, and the legal system, blind in one eye and unable so see out of the other, says, "You screwed up, now we're really gonna screw you over." Because there was no parity between offense committed and sentence imposed, there was never any consideration of real justice and certainly no time wasted on mercy.
Once the trigger is pulled, the bullet cannot be put back in the gun. This too, is an accurate analogy of the results of this misguided attempt to eliminate crimes that should, in many cases, never have been classified as crimes in the first place. The lives ruined are ruined. No reparations for the crime of punishment will be offered to the ruined ones.
Merely opening the cage door "early" is the best we can do. What's not to be grateful for?
Crime (human error) and the government's approach to punishment for misdeeds (the computer) proves the truth of this bit of humor, only the truth is anything but humorous. Some one takes a forbidden path in life, and the legal system, blind in one eye and unable so see out of the other, says, "You screwed up, now we're really gonna screw you over." Because there was no parity between offense committed and sentence imposed, there was never any consideration of real justice and certainly no time wasted on mercy.
Once the trigger is pulled, the bullet cannot be put back in the gun. This too, is an accurate analogy of the results of this misguided attempt to eliminate crimes that should, in many cases, never have been classified as crimes in the first place. The lives ruined are ruined. No reparations for the crime of punishment will be offered to the ruined ones.
Merely opening the cage door "early" is the best we can do. What's not to be grateful for?
1
The solution, of course, is not as simple as changing mandatory sentencing laws, but must include mandatory rehabilitation, and yes, if we as a society have to pay for that, so be it. I would rather pay for someone to learn positive social skills than pay for them to sit in a cell and watch Nicki Minaj eroticize our basest weakness.
1
Locking people up in prisons is good business, why else would the U.S. have so many prisoners.
It is a disgrace, really.
I hope that Mr. Obama succeeds with changes in sentencing laws. There's no point in sending a youngster to prison for shoplifting or some a other minor offense.
Why ruin someone's life for no good reason at all?
It is a disgrace, really.
I hope that Mr. Obama succeeds with changes in sentencing laws. There's no point in sending a youngster to prison for shoplifting or some a other minor offense.
Why ruin someone's life for no good reason at all?
2
In the U.S., our policy is one of eliminating populations in order to eliminate crime. Felonies, registries, poverty driven fine cycles, probation, background checks, drug tests, and a barrage of politicians and media outlets waggling ominous sounding straw-men criminals and terrorists at us has led to our atrocity of a justice system. Barring of mandatory sentencing is a first step in a much needed marathon of reform.
3
In my opinion, there should be no federal crimes involving drug usage. How to effectively deal with those who sell illegal substances is a subject that can be dealt with separately, but users should not be incarcerated simply for their drug habits, in the absence of other crimes like theft. There are a number of first-world democracies who have decriminalized usage, and the results are well known. It would be nice if the states took similar action, but the federal government should act on this immediately.
4
I would like to see speedy trials for violent crimes, death sentences for brutal killings that are actually carried out, stiffer sentences for rioting, looting and arson, and an end to endless appeals. Drug crimes I would ease up on, except for those doing the selling and distribution. Women and children, I would especially be inclined to give a break.
2
Meaning, of course, death sentences that are actually carried out for brutal killings.
1
Better late than never. This has been a problem worth solving and it's good to finally bipartisanship agreement that these mandatory minimums need to go away or, at the very least, need of major revision. Some of these people who are behind bars now are because of drugs--many who dealt low amounts of drugs or dealt drugs that are now legal in several states (marijuana). And for some crazy reason, they're serving longer sentences than violent criminals. Let's get this done.
36
I might remind you that all the recent mass murders in this nation had but ONE common denominator - drugs.
It's the "elephant in the room" that no Democrat wants to talk about.
It's the "elephant in the room" that no Democrat wants to talk about.
Oh WOW... Really..IS that enough?
Well lets here the states are mandated to honor and up hold the federal WAR on Drugs, which costs in excess of 5.4 Trillion a year, which mean they are mandated to have state and local officers trained in the first response manor of Urban Combat, that federal law, As we are in a STATE of WAR.
That WAR includes the incarcerations of Gang members of the illegal drug trade, enforcing the federal law, which mandates the states laws on Weapon charges while using an illegal drug.
So just how is the Justice department involved in the War against our own citizens, under federal Law each state is mandated to incorporate laws to support the state getting federal assistance, is that the assistance each state needs? Criminally holding a failed WAR for the profits of the Industrial Military Complex? is that the Answer to Social Problems WAR?
For the last 75 years of history it has been.
Try again and explain the fact that we spend more of the Drug WAR than we spend on Education, Health Care, Transportation, and even energy development, by 1134% to 1/16th of 1 dollar spent. Meaning every 1134 dollars spent goes to the Military Industrial Complex, to every one dollar spent on anything else.
FACTS please
Trackus.gov go read the federal laws and bills, and then ask why we have the largest population incarcerated on the planet.
Chas
Well lets here the states are mandated to honor and up hold the federal WAR on Drugs, which costs in excess of 5.4 Trillion a year, which mean they are mandated to have state and local officers trained in the first response manor of Urban Combat, that federal law, As we are in a STATE of WAR.
That WAR includes the incarcerations of Gang members of the illegal drug trade, enforcing the federal law, which mandates the states laws on Weapon charges while using an illegal drug.
So just how is the Justice department involved in the War against our own citizens, under federal Law each state is mandated to incorporate laws to support the state getting federal assistance, is that the assistance each state needs? Criminally holding a failed WAR for the profits of the Industrial Military Complex? is that the Answer to Social Problems WAR?
For the last 75 years of history it has been.
Try again and explain the fact that we spend more of the Drug WAR than we spend on Education, Health Care, Transportation, and even energy development, by 1134% to 1/16th of 1 dollar spent. Meaning every 1134 dollars spent goes to the Military Industrial Complex, to every one dollar spent on anything else.
FACTS please
Trackus.gov go read the federal laws and bills, and then ask why we have the largest population incarcerated on the planet.
Chas
I wonder how much of this (potential) action by Congress is driven by the realization that prison operations are far more costly on a per capita basis than rehabilitation programs are, and how much of it is realization that "federal" sentencing guidelines have a track record of being applied unequally on a demographic basis. Whichever is the case, it's a long-overdue initiative.
In a separate vein, bipartisan initiiatives like this one, on relatively non-controversial programs, might (vain hope) presage more non-partisan efforts in areas like immigration reform and tax reform. Hope springs eternal.
In a separate vein, bipartisan initiiatives like this one, on relatively non-controversial programs, might (vain hope) presage more non-partisan efforts in areas like immigration reform and tax reform. Hope springs eternal.
1
Please provide some basic description of the upcoming procedural path and calenda
r, and the likely hurdles, for this, and other, legislative matters. The NYT continues to bypass opportunities to actually educate. ("Grassley bad, Pence and Boehner good" is not sufficient.) If the capture of government by lobbyists is ever to be defeated, ordinary citizens need to be able to develop an expectation of staying truly informed. When the alleged newspaper of record almost always drops the ball on the basics, this is impossible.
r, and the likely hurdles, for this, and other, legislative matters. The NYT continues to bypass opportunities to actually educate. ("Grassley bad, Pence and Boehner good" is not sufficient.) If the capture of government by lobbyists is ever to be defeated, ordinary citizens need to be able to develop an expectation of staying truly informed. When the alleged newspaper of record almost always drops the ball on the basics, this is impossible.
I strongly disagree with everything Barack Obama does for two reasons.
One: Sanity Two: This is a political stunt and a legacy grab that does nothing to address why so many in the Black community (I'm Black so I kinda have a vested interest) are incarcerated in the first place?
Reducing prison times, making all drugs legal and making it illegal for police officers to touch people when they arrest them, ALL without taking any steps to deal with Obama's decimation of the Black middle class and Black males in particular just sends a signal to the Black community that the status quo is okay. Keep hustling. Keep having babies when you're just a baby. Keep hanging out on the streets. Don't pick yourself up. Don't break the cycle and achieve--Obama & the government are just going to make it easier for you to stay where you are.
When I was five years old, I took a roll of lifesavers from our local pharmacy. Because I wanted them. My father whipped my butt and made me go back to that pharmacy and tell the owner what I did and accept whatever punishment I got. I swept the aisles of that store. In tears. Ashamed of what I had done and myself, and yes, ashamed that I got caught. Even at age five.
Today, Obama is telling 5 year old kids to take the candy, he will just manipulate the media, the courts and Congress to eliminate punishment. Yet another half-baked, one sided political PR stunt from a bad president and a worse news media.
One: Sanity Two: This is a political stunt and a legacy grab that does nothing to address why so many in the Black community (I'm Black so I kinda have a vested interest) are incarcerated in the first place?
Reducing prison times, making all drugs legal and making it illegal for police officers to touch people when they arrest them, ALL without taking any steps to deal with Obama's decimation of the Black middle class and Black males in particular just sends a signal to the Black community that the status quo is okay. Keep hustling. Keep having babies when you're just a baby. Keep hanging out on the streets. Don't pick yourself up. Don't break the cycle and achieve--Obama & the government are just going to make it easier for you to stay where you are.
When I was five years old, I took a roll of lifesavers from our local pharmacy. Because I wanted them. My father whipped my butt and made me go back to that pharmacy and tell the owner what I did and accept whatever punishment I got. I swept the aisles of that store. In tears. Ashamed of what I had done and myself, and yes, ashamed that I got caught. Even at age five.
Today, Obama is telling 5 year old kids to take the candy, he will just manipulate the media, the courts and Congress to eliminate punishment. Yet another half-baked, one sided political PR stunt from a bad president and a worse news media.
2
Much as I applauded President Obama for pardoning 46 nonviolent drug offenders this summer, I also wanted a more thorough improvement, so that it doesn't take a Presidential Pardon and needlessly wasted years for justice to be done.
If even Republican candidates like Rand Paul can get behind this at an election season, there is hope for progress. When citizens see what these inflexible, "tough-on-crime" laws mean in practice and at individual levels, there should be enough outcry for political will to change the legislation.
1
What strikes me is that the moral arguments about over incarceration did nothing until states discovered how much it was costing them to jail non- violent individuals. If you want to understand politics: follow the money.
2
How about we stop putting illegal immigrants in our jails and instead deport them? A decade ago, 27% of inmates were illegal aliens. It is probably much higher now. Seems like deporting them back to their native country would free up a lot of prison space and save us a lot of money.
According to GAO:
At the federal level, the number of criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at the end of calendar year 2001 to about 49,000 at the end of calendar year 2004--a 15 percent increase. The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years--about 27 percent. The majority of criminal aliens incarcerated at the end of calendar year 2004 were identified as citizens of Mexico. We estimate the federal cost of incarcerating criminal aliens--Bureau of Prisons (BOP)'s cost to incarcerate criminals and reimbursements to state and local governments under SCAAP--totaled approximately $5.8 billion for calendar years 2001 through 2004."
According to GAO:
At the federal level, the number of criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at the end of calendar year 2001 to about 49,000 at the end of calendar year 2004--a 15 percent increase. The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years--about 27 percent. The majority of criminal aliens incarcerated at the end of calendar year 2004 were identified as citizens of Mexico. We estimate the federal cost of incarcerating criminal aliens--Bureau of Prisons (BOP)'s cost to incarcerate criminals and reimbursements to state and local governments under SCAAP--totaled approximately $5.8 billion for calendar years 2001 through 2004."
2
I was a parole agent for 23 years for the California Department of Corrections. You're saying its probably much higher now? Well that settles it then. Let's empty out prisons if these violent illegal felons so they can come right back into our country and commit more crimes.
Have you heard of Kathryn Stinele? She's the 32 year old white female who was shot in killed in sanctuary city San Francisco by a 5 TIME deported illegal felon who had committed 7 felonies. Why don't you tell the parents how you feel.
Or better yet tell that to the family of the Sacramento Sherriff's deputy who was ambushed and murdered by an illegal. His kids lost a father that day. But that doesn't matter does it.
Did you know if an illegal commits a rape, murder, child molestation and get's back to Mexico they refuse to send them back? So how does your plan to take that into account? Tell me how the victims and/or their families get justice. But saving money is more important isn't it.
How much does Kentucky spend on housing illegal felons? In California we spend over $1 billion. It's not a problem for you in Kentucky but it is in California. I live in San Diego. Do you deal with the influx of illegals that we do?.
You cite statistics that are 11 years old. That's not even relevant. If that's the best you can do your comment is dated and flawed.
If you want a reality check come out to Folsom, San Quentin or Pelican Bay and get an education. You have no idea what you are talking about
Have you heard of Kathryn Stinele? She's the 32 year old white female who was shot in killed in sanctuary city San Francisco by a 5 TIME deported illegal felon who had committed 7 felonies. Why don't you tell the parents how you feel.
Or better yet tell that to the family of the Sacramento Sherriff's deputy who was ambushed and murdered by an illegal. His kids lost a father that day. But that doesn't matter does it.
Did you know if an illegal commits a rape, murder, child molestation and get's back to Mexico they refuse to send them back? So how does your plan to take that into account? Tell me how the victims and/or their families get justice. But saving money is more important isn't it.
How much does Kentucky spend on housing illegal felons? In California we spend over $1 billion. It's not a problem for you in Kentucky but it is in California. I live in San Diego. Do you deal with the influx of illegals that we do?.
You cite statistics that are 11 years old. That's not even relevant. If that's the best you can do your comment is dated and flawed.
If you want a reality check come out to Folsom, San Quentin or Pelican Bay and get an education. You have no idea what you are talking about
1
What took you geniuses so long to realize how wrong our Legislature got it!!? No, get the " for profit " prisons out of our law enforcement purview. Profiteering has no place in our justice system!! For that matter, in our school system, as well!!!
1
Or healthcare
Interesting. But the real problem is in the state systems of incarceration where no federal laws need intrude, and often prisons are run by corporations which have no interest in seeing their "customers" ever free again. They represent profit, free labor and pure gravy for numerous individuals and companies in the states and in corporate boardrooms. They're the hotel 6 of Hell, where no reservations are made and the "guests" may be piled up on each other as long as profitable.Train the staff? Why? What skills are needed to turn keys.
When states ran prisons, they had a stake in trying to keep prisoners out. They had work release and training programs, and a few-till the vengeance movement set in-allowed the prisoners to try and improve their educations and even allowed a minority to attend day classes outside minimum security prisons as a reward for good behavior.
Now, with states bleeding debt, there will be no new movement for a return to the time when , with less than 10% of current prison populations, the US actually attempted to rehabilitate it's inmates. While states close the state asylums for the insane, we allow mentally ill and convicts to collect in immense numbers and clog up the system in state prisons. One wonders why more of them don't try to escape.
When states ran prisons, they had a stake in trying to keep prisoners out. They had work release and training programs, and a few-till the vengeance movement set in-allowed the prisoners to try and improve their educations and even allowed a minority to attend day classes outside minimum security prisons as a reward for good behavior.
Now, with states bleeding debt, there will be no new movement for a return to the time when , with less than 10% of current prison populations, the US actually attempted to rehabilitate it's inmates. While states close the state asylums for the insane, we allow mentally ill and convicts to collect in immense numbers and clog up the system in state prisons. One wonders why more of them don't try to escape.
1
I was a parole agent for 23 years for the California Department of Corrections/Juvenile Division (18-21) I took my job very seriously because I was their last hope before they went to the adults. This is what I did
1) read their files front to back so I knew them better than anybody. I paid attention to family history and dynamics, and the psych. evaluation.
2) I spent at least 10-15 minutes each day talking to my guys. They knew I was available 24/7
3) I set my own personal goals based on their strengths and weaknesses and we tracked them together
4) It was my persona requirement that they had to have at least a GED before I would refer them to parole.
5) I taught them
a) how to fill out an application
b) the do's and don'ts of interviews
c) conflict resolution
d) we'd do mock job interviews
e) I pushed hard to get them a job so they could begin developing a resume'
f) to only pay in cash. Never charge
g) how to find a good place to live and what to look for
h) tolerance. Without it they could not survive
I) move. If they go back where they came they will fail. The pressure is just too great
j)When they were getting ready for parole I would bring it job listings for their city and help them find something they'd want. We'd contact the employer and attempt to set up a phone interview. I wanted them to have a job lined up. That increases success
j) Do not call me asking for help once you leave. You should have a support system in place and not need me.
1) read their files front to back so I knew them better than anybody. I paid attention to family history and dynamics, and the psych. evaluation.
2) I spent at least 10-15 minutes each day talking to my guys. They knew I was available 24/7
3) I set my own personal goals based on their strengths and weaknesses and we tracked them together
4) It was my persona requirement that they had to have at least a GED before I would refer them to parole.
5) I taught them
a) how to fill out an application
b) the do's and don'ts of interviews
c) conflict resolution
d) we'd do mock job interviews
e) I pushed hard to get them a job so they could begin developing a resume'
f) to only pay in cash. Never charge
g) how to find a good place to live and what to look for
h) tolerance. Without it they could not survive
I) move. If they go back where they came they will fail. The pressure is just too great
j)When they were getting ready for parole I would bring it job listings for their city and help them find something they'd want. We'd contact the employer and attempt to set up a phone interview. I wanted them to have a job lined up. That increases success
j) Do not call me asking for help once you leave. You should have a support system in place and not need me.
2
Decriminalize marijuana! It's a harmless drug and so many (disproportionately minorities) end up in prison for minor amounts. It's time to change and I'm glad that we have a bipartisan movement in Congress taking the first step in eliminating mandatory sentencing guidelines. But we still need to eliminate the need to sentence people in the first place.
1
“The caricature of the conservative view on this is that we are in this to reduce costs in the prison system. But the biggest issue involves the human costs.” Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah)
No, no, no, no, no. You were doing so well right up till then, Senator. Fixing your party's mistake is excellent. No one's even asking you to admit it was a mistake. But it's way to early in the process and way too late in the damage for you to be carving a halo out of thin air and polishing it. If you were so concerned about the human costs, you would have never passed this hysterical, destructive legislation in the first place. Just correct the error humbly, without blowing your trumpet in the streets, and be done with it.
No, no, no, no, no. You were doing so well right up till then, Senator. Fixing your party's mistake is excellent. No one's even asking you to admit it was a mistake. But it's way to early in the process and way too late in the damage for you to be carving a halo out of thin air and polishing it. If you were so concerned about the human costs, you would have never passed this hysterical, destructive legislation in the first place. Just correct the error humbly, without blowing your trumpet in the streets, and be done with it.
Among the obvious moral and financial stakes, the left and the right each have clear targets to focus on: the left can attempt to dismantle the scary police-state system that appears racially biased; the right can go after the bloated self serving prison guards unions. There is someone for everyone to hate.
1
Follow the money. Build jails, privatize them, arrest people for any reason, keep the system and money flowing. This all leads to corruption. It's about time the politicians are coming to their senses, but it's far too late.
2
Ironically when a person is locked up for drugs they find that the same drugs are readily available in jail.
Most come in with help from the guards which are government employees.
Most come in with help from the guards which are government employees.
2
The politicians responsible for wasting billions of taxpayer dollars incarcerating non-violent "offenders" should be held accountable. The money could be used much more productively to support our country.
5
What staggers me is that the U.S. not only has by far the highest incarceration rates of the West, but the highest anywhere, except for the Seychelles.
According to the International Centre for Prison Studies, the U.S. is ranked at No. 2 in the world. Maybe we can achieve rapprochement with Cuba now because we're likeminded on imprisoning our populace, since our Cuban neighbors rank No. 6. Russia needs to work harder at that whole totalitarian thing—what would Dostoyevsky think?—because they trail us in 9th position. Meanwhile, repressive Iran and China come in at 36 and 123.
One of the many things we ought to be learning from the Sandra Bland tragedy is that we put too many people in jail for minor stuff. (Hard for me to state that without an emphatic swear word in there somewhere.)
What's also interesting is that maybe political ideologies aren't on a linear spectrum. They're more like orbits around the sphere of the polity, and sometimes they meet on the far side: I must applaud Republicans for recognizing the “'overcriminalization' of certain conduct that they perceive as another form of regulatory growth." But be patient: if they have their way, we'll be haling women to prison for terminating pregnancies that (especially in the first trimester) may not be viable in the first place. I suspect this is more a GOP matter of making it legal for businesses to poison us at will.
But hey, any glimmers of hope. May I live to see a new era of statesmen solving problems again.
According to the International Centre for Prison Studies, the U.S. is ranked at No. 2 in the world. Maybe we can achieve rapprochement with Cuba now because we're likeminded on imprisoning our populace, since our Cuban neighbors rank No. 6. Russia needs to work harder at that whole totalitarian thing—what would Dostoyevsky think?—because they trail us in 9th position. Meanwhile, repressive Iran and China come in at 36 and 123.
One of the many things we ought to be learning from the Sandra Bland tragedy is that we put too many people in jail for minor stuff. (Hard for me to state that without an emphatic swear word in there somewhere.)
What's also interesting is that maybe political ideologies aren't on a linear spectrum. They're more like orbits around the sphere of the polity, and sometimes they meet on the far side: I must applaud Republicans for recognizing the “'overcriminalization' of certain conduct that they perceive as another form of regulatory growth." But be patient: if they have their way, we'll be haling women to prison for terminating pregnancies that (especially in the first trimester) may not be viable in the first place. I suspect this is more a GOP matter of making it legal for businesses to poison us at will.
But hey, any glimmers of hope. May I live to see a new era of statesmen solving problems again.
25
Be prepared to be amazed. The five world leaders in capital punishment are:
1) China (communist dictatorship),
2) Vietnam (communist dictatorship),
3) Saudi Arabia (Islamic dictatorship),
4) Iran (Islamic dictatorship), and
5) U.S.A. (self-declared world leader in freedom, equality and democracy).
When a convicted person in the U.S. is executed, the logic we use that "this person will never kill anyone again" and so that the criminal "pays for his crime."
The fact that we regularly convict and condemn people by mistake (so much so that George Ryan, Republican governor of Illinois, commuted all death sentences in his state), that we have a long history of corruption among judges, prosecutors and the police, and that young people, as well as mentally ill persons, don't have the full capacity to understand their actions doesn't matter, nor that life in prison accomplishes the same two goals listed about.
In fact, anytime a murderer is guilty and we imprison or execute him or her, the claim that society has been protected by our collective actions is patently false since all the victims that we are protecting are hypothetical future victims. But all logic is a slippery slope.
1) China (communist dictatorship),
2) Vietnam (communist dictatorship),
3) Saudi Arabia (Islamic dictatorship),
4) Iran (Islamic dictatorship), and
5) U.S.A. (self-declared world leader in freedom, equality and democracy).
When a convicted person in the U.S. is executed, the logic we use that "this person will never kill anyone again" and so that the criminal "pays for his crime."
The fact that we regularly convict and condemn people by mistake (so much so that George Ryan, Republican governor of Illinois, commuted all death sentences in his state), that we have a long history of corruption among judges, prosecutors and the police, and that young people, as well as mentally ill persons, don't have the full capacity to understand their actions doesn't matter, nor that life in prison accomplishes the same two goals listed about.
In fact, anytime a murderer is guilty and we imprison or execute him or her, the claim that society has been protected by our collective actions is patently false since all the victims that we are protecting are hypothetical future victims. But all logic is a slippery slope.
1
i have never been a fan of Barack Obama. And I'm a conservative so democrats in general get on my nerves. That said, when I saw on the news that he - the president of the United states - personally went to a prison to highlight this problem, I felt a bit of admiration for him. When I moved to the metro where I now live I intentionally chose an inner city church in a low-income area . That was back when I suffered from the selfish altruism so many of us felt at the time. Be that as it may, that church eventually became my second family. Wasn't long before I was a godfather. Then again and again. Most of them grew up to be happy and successful in their own right. And two of them went off to prison. One of them has been there for almost 30 years now. He started getting in trouble young when his dad left and proceeded on to sell crack, finally getting the title of habitual offender. He deserved jail time I'll admit, but some murderers get less time than he has already served. For the life of me, I don't see how it serves anyone to lock someone up for that long.
24
One of the big changes has been mislabeling drug users as drug dealers. When an individual is found with drugs and money or guns, it is automatically assumed that they are a drug dealer. Since over half the population uses drugs, a large percentage of the population carries guns, and many people live a "cash-only" lifestyle because of mistrust of banks, there has been an explosion of drug-users who clearly do not need to be in jail.
10
There is so much money to be made from U.S. prisons it hard to believe they will continue.
And if these "liberals" are successful, they will be face an onslaught of "crime and punishment" opponents, in both parties, in the next election.
Everyone talks about the budget, but nothing gets the "An eye for an eye...and the whole world blind" crowd riled up like letting a bad guy escape punishment.
And if these "liberals" are successful, they will be face an onslaught of "crime and punishment" opponents, in both parties, in the next election.
Everyone talks about the budget, but nothing gets the "An eye for an eye...and the whole world blind" crowd riled up like letting a bad guy escape punishment.
4
And now, finally, our boneheaded "lawmakers" have come to realize they, once again, have no means to pay for their War On Crime. Just like most of the wars we have been in.
Maybe the time has come to make them criminally liable for poorly conceived laws and regulations. Instead it is the public that always ends up paying, one way or another.
Maybe the time has come to make them criminally liable for poorly conceived laws and regulations. Instead it is the public that always ends up paying, one way or another.
19
Changing the sentencing laws is necessary but not sufficient. Something must be done to provide the needed healthcare for addicts and something (education, training and change job application process) must be done to provide meaningful employment for individuals released from prisons.
12
Maybe it's because I was born in 1991, but I never understood how a society could lock people up for simply using drugs. I also will never understand how people in any given society could tolerate such a policy that has extreme racial bias written within the law and conducted in practice. For example, it's not uncommon for police officer to given fraternity members a warning for having cocaine in the house. Rehabilitation is a better option.
31
The interesting thing is that there is bipartisan agreement that something should be done. Most of the people who are incarcerated facing these sentences are poor, working class folks. They are people who use or sell drugs it to either get away from their problems or to make money. It would be worth while to put effort into education, job training, wage equality.
12
It is totally obvious that criminalizing use of various drugs will not stop people from using them, just like prohibition didn't stop alcohol consumption, and anti-gambling was a failure, with the government ultimately becoming the biggest bookie.
Regulation along the lines of alcohol seems to make the most sense. Taking the massive profit out of the illegal drug trade will likely end a lot of the midnight 7-11 stickup or streetwalking to pay for a drug habit.
But query, what do you do with very pernicious drugs like crack cocaine and crystal meth and heroin? And nothing is a panacea. Ending prohibition did not end organized crime, which had gotten such a boost from prohibition. I wish I was smart enough to have a solution.
Regulation along the lines of alcohol seems to make the most sense. Taking the massive profit out of the illegal drug trade will likely end a lot of the midnight 7-11 stickup or streetwalking to pay for a drug habit.
But query, what do you do with very pernicious drugs like crack cocaine and crystal meth and heroin? And nothing is a panacea. Ending prohibition did not end organized crime, which had gotten such a boost from prohibition. I wish I was smart enough to have a solution.
38
Ending prohibition didn't end organized crime because criminals turned to providing illegal drugs. If drugs were decriminalized, and money take from interdiction and the criminal justice system, perhaps we could finally fully fund education and treatment. No one beats heroin if he or she has to wait 2 years for a bed. Decriminalizing drugs might be the best thing to happen to this country in a long time, and it might also be a much better thing for the whole Western Hemisphere.
1
See Portugal. In 2002 they stops criminalizing drug use and abuse and began treating it as the health issue it really is. It has worked! Funny how you never see our media covering a solution.
2
Aye. Did we learn nothing from Prohibition?
1
Wow are these people actually coming up with good ideas? We live in an over criminalized society. Many of our laws should just be struck, drugs legalized, but mainly we need our jobs back, we need democracy, we need industry, we need what we had before that made us prosperous, a well paid well educated working and middle class. End the rule of billionaires. Back to democracy as in one person one vote. Biggest most beneficial change we could make.
8
Sad. Seems like it's time to once again forget the misery that a lot of these incarcerated for a reason people cause on a day to day basis in mostly poor neighbourhoods. Not the few crimes where they actually get caught, but the behind closed doors violence perpetrated on their unfortunate kids, families and neighbours.
4
It would be more persuasive if somebody first apologized for cutting prison terms back in the 1960s, which unleashed a generation-long crime wave. Tell us what you've learned from the massive screw up of a half-century ago and why we should trust you this time?
5
Introduce the plea of guilty but insane/mentally ill. Would stop to some extent the warehousing of the mentally ill in prison where they are not treated and never get better. End the utterly useless 'war' on drugs, decriminalize/legalize them and stop funding the worst people in the world, the gangs who supply them. And most important, LET JUDGES BE JUDGES!! If they can't make decisions for individual cases, use computers and stop wasting the money on humans.
1
All the failed "war on drugs" has done is fueled the success of the drug cartels and bloated the number of incarcerated people in this country to obscene levels. Mandatory sentencing was doomed from the start because it doesn't take into account any extraneous circumstances surrounding the offense. It's time to make broad changes to the criminal justice system in this country so it indeed dispenses justice and doesn't just create criminals.
2
who will be against this
1) cops,drug bust are PROFITABLE,the police are capitalist now. why go after heave manpower crimes like rape and murder,when you can go after highly profitable like traffic stops and drug arrests.
2) for profit prisons,there goes the money out the jail cell.
the war on drugs was a complete and utter failure the moment we made it criminal instead of treatment.
1) cops,drug bust are PROFITABLE,the police are capitalist now. why go after heave manpower crimes like rape and murder,when you can go after highly profitable like traffic stops and drug arrests.
2) for profit prisons,there goes the money out the jail cell.
the war on drugs was a complete and utter failure the moment we made it criminal instead of treatment.
6
Be sure not to forget 3) The people who have to live with these criminals...
"2.2 million men and women behind bars" in America.... or " 750 per 100,000 — now incarcerated, by far the highest of any Western nation".
So much for the myth of American 'freedom'.
'Freedom' for the American police-prosecutor-prison-industrial-complex to run over the nation's so-called civil rights...if that's what you're into.
Another international American disgrace among many.
So much for the myth of American 'freedom'.
'Freedom' for the American police-prosecutor-prison-industrial-complex to run over the nation's so-called civil rights...if that's what you're into.
Another international American disgrace among many.
81
The people are coming to the realization that the criminalization of non-violent, victimless acts (like drug use) is having serious unintended consequences on society. But the people will need to do more than just change their minds; they will have to aggressively and purposefully confront the prison-industrial complex that uses these laws to keep its prisons full and tax revenues flowing into its coffers. They will not give up their livelihood without a fight and they have plenty of political clout and lackeys with which to wage their battle against common sense, individual liberty, and human decency.
9
It is pointless to talk about what Boehner say or thinks. Find out what that zoo of a caucus he supposedly leads think, and then you have something.
The moral degradation of America continues. Let the criminals go. It's simply too expensive to make them pay the price for their crimes. Unbelievable, but true.
6
I'll believe it when I see it. For profit prisons will lobby against this tooth and nail. Expect a massive amount of fear mongering. We put more people in prison then North Korea. Our morale high ground in the world has been shredded.
8
The for-profit prison industry must have fallen behind in their campaign donations.
62
Back in 2003 Portugal enacted a de facto legalization of what were previously illegal drugs that allows addicts to essentially have a small supply of drugs (trafficking is still illegal).
Twelves years later, there are still drug addicts in Portugal, but the rate of drug addiction hasn't risen, while the cost of incarceration has dropped dramatically with a definite shift to rehabilitation.
No one talks about success, but Portugal was in practically the same shape as Greece and required a bail-out. No doubt Portugal's economic recovery is partly due to its smart drug policy.
However, the Portuguese still have the same "crime and punishment" ideological debate that dominates U.S. policies, the argument that is you break a law you must be punished. Severely. No matter what the other costs to society.
However, what is missing from Portugal is the extreme partisan politics of the U.S. in which almost every debate is a matter of ideology, not practicality or solving the problem.
Twelves years later, there are still drug addicts in Portugal, but the rate of drug addiction hasn't risen, while the cost of incarceration has dropped dramatically with a definite shift to rehabilitation.
No one talks about success, but Portugal was in practically the same shape as Greece and required a bail-out. No doubt Portugal's economic recovery is partly due to its smart drug policy.
However, the Portuguese still have the same "crime and punishment" ideological debate that dominates U.S. policies, the argument that is you break a law you must be punished. Severely. No matter what the other costs to society.
However, what is missing from Portugal is the extreme partisan politics of the U.S. in which almost every debate is a matter of ideology, not practicality or solving the problem.
10
Be careful. This is a slippery slope. The reforms that took place in the 1980s and 1990s resulted in taking a lot of these folks off the street with the resulting decrease in crime. In Connecticut, the police and courts are looking the other way and there is a steep increase in crime in Hartford today. All I'm saying is be careful.
4
No. The crime rate was already going down before the insistence on jailing practically anyone who moved or blinked. Those who are in line to be let out of jail are the non-violent, not those whose violent actions your state police are "ignoring" now.
Finally! People have been saying this for years, decades. The cost of the current laws, in both cash and ruined lives, will never be known, but it is enormous. All because politicians wanted to look 'tough on crime'.
8
This is a long overdue breath of fresh air. The prison-industrial-complex in this country has robbed the federal and state coffers to provide hefty sums to prison contractors, all while propagating this ridiculous "war on drugs" which has really been a "war on the poor."
In New York State, we spend roughly $60,000 per prisoner each year for incarceration. Let that number sink in. It's 3 times the cost per student that we spend on public education. It's an amount that could instead pay a comfortable annual salary to any number of state or private-sector employees. It's money that could make a dent to improve our archaic infrastructure. But alas, we spend that much on each inmate who go caught with a small amount of drugs. Heck, if we reallocated that type of money to schools in the first place, maybe we wouldn't need so many prisons to begin with.
When you compound this sheer expense with the other rotten factors of the prison industry - the racial imbalances, the rampart corruption, the hopelessly failed jobs training programs - it's well past time that we accept that our "tough on crime" dogma has done more to harm families than to protect them. Let's close half these prisons, find alternate ways of disciplining lawbreakers, and spend that money on things that actually improve our communities.
In New York State, we spend roughly $60,000 per prisoner each year for incarceration. Let that number sink in. It's 3 times the cost per student that we spend on public education. It's an amount that could instead pay a comfortable annual salary to any number of state or private-sector employees. It's money that could make a dent to improve our archaic infrastructure. But alas, we spend that much on each inmate who go caught with a small amount of drugs. Heck, if we reallocated that type of money to schools in the first place, maybe we wouldn't need so many prisons to begin with.
When you compound this sheer expense with the other rotten factors of the prison industry - the racial imbalances, the rampart corruption, the hopelessly failed jobs training programs - it's well past time that we accept that our "tough on crime" dogma has done more to harm families than to protect them. Let's close half these prisons, find alternate ways of disciplining lawbreakers, and spend that money on things that actually improve our communities.
125
Crime and Punishment is a HUGE cash cow that "conservatives" from both parties have used to milk the taxpayers. While almost everyone in the health care community works by the principal of "harm reduction", the underlying philosophy of the criminal justice system is "An eye for an eye...and the whole world blind." (M. K. Gandhi).
1
If we took half that and spent it on rehabilitation and training and the other half on infrastructure, we could have better roads and better people. But if we don't subsidize a support system for rehabilitation and get guns out of our homes, we will only swing the pendulum back to the seventies, when crime was at everyone's doorstep.
8
Here is another idea - replace prison with labor camps. Put convicts to work rebuilding the infrastructure, make them earn their keep in prison, and give them on-the-job training with the same dollar!
Well, it's a start. Once again, the piece that is missing is discussion of not just the sentences but the sheer number of crimes on the books. Congress, attributable to both parties, has for years passed law after law that duplicates state statutes often in response to some situation that made headlines and in which the President and Congress have vowed to "do something". The result is duplicative laws that causes the federal government to get involved in matters that are outside of their purview (and which is already illegal) for political appearances. Murder, for example, is illegal in all 50 states, but in response to things like school shootings or the like Washington likes to puff up and levy some federal charge.
The expensive end result is that people can commit one crime and now get charged for multiple variants of the same offense at both state and federal levels. The result is to bully more plea deals, more prison time, in exchange for dropping some of the needless charges while the politicians part themselves on the back as if they've solved something.
The same applies to allowing the bureaucracy, like the EPA, to write codes that no longer just result in fines but in federal prison time, for things that many would be shocked to know can land them in jail. There is no longer a good number estimate of how many of these there are, so rife have they become. Reform must include eliminating any prison sentences not specifically authorized by Congress.
The expensive end result is that people can commit one crime and now get charged for multiple variants of the same offense at both state and federal levels. The result is to bully more plea deals, more prison time, in exchange for dropping some of the needless charges while the politicians part themselves on the back as if they've solved something.
The same applies to allowing the bureaucracy, like the EPA, to write codes that no longer just result in fines but in federal prison time, for things that many would be shocked to know can land them in jail. There is no longer a good number estimate of how many of these there are, so rife have they become. Reform must include eliminating any prison sentences not specifically authorized by Congress.
1
Finally. And if all the naysayers who predict a huge spike in crime and drug abuse turn out to be right, we would need to ask and answer a different question. Why does our society disproportionately create criminals and addicts? After all, pandemonium does not reign in all places which have lower rates of incarceration.
4
As a start and hopefully as an example to state governments lets forbid incarceration for marajuana possession or trafficking. Convictions should punish offenders with fines,in home detention and probation only.
3
This is a very good start. I'm happy to see a common cause for bipartisonship. Thank you.
18
Unlock my fellow Americans suffering cruel and unjust sentenced for nonviolent drug offenses. They need treatment and support, not life in prison.
Yes, there are challenges and risks to reform, but they are no thornier than the challenges and risks inherent in the current system. We can't lock away and hide our drug problem. Haven't politicians learned that yet? Americans have.
Yes, there are challenges and risks to reform, but they are no thornier than the challenges and risks inherent in the current system. We can't lock away and hide our drug problem. Haven't politicians learned that yet? Americans have.
9
What's needed is to get rid of mandatory sentences, decriminalizing drug use, job training, socialization, education for those sentenced. We have too many laws that criminalize the poor while the rich go scot free for major crimes. I was on jury duty selection recently, it took a long time because so many people said they did not trust the judicial system to determine anything fairly. That was after a long lecture by the young woman judge about how wonderful the justice system is, how wonderful she was...I thought to myself, please ask me what I think about it, you won't want to hear it! In the end the lawyers were allowed to dismiss all the black people and most hispanics from the jury, ended up entirely white middle aged people. Defendant was hispanic.
1
I do not know why Grassley is so opposed to changing the whole criminal law sentencing system. Judges should be given very wide latitude toward sentencing. There are many extenuating circumstances inherent in sentencing. Too many black men are in prison for minor crimes. That is really unfair and discriminatory.
This effort will go nowhere until Kate's Law is passed and implemented, together with sanctuary city de-funding. Do you hear us, John? Scale back, no eliminate, all funding for any city that will not fully and totally enforce federal laws.
3
yes lets pass bills that have nowhere to go ,and thus do nothing.that is the whole solution.by the way how many people are killed by US citizens?the shooter in la had mental illness and was allowed to buy a gun.70k rape kits untested by the police,not doing job.thus allowing rapists to walk the street.you have a very selective memory don't you.
It's a fine step, but more needs to be done. The Federal example should trigger a deeper discussion at the State level, particularly in Texas and California. Interestingly, from the point of view of Conservative support that this is getting, is that for this initiative to function, it presupposes and requires strong welfare programs, particularly in prevention, public health, and job training. Let's hope that we are able to change the trend in the appalling number of incarcerated in the U.S.
40
Agree but we also need an efficient immigration reform that closes the border except for lawful entrants. If we removed the illegal aliens from our prisons and jails, our incarceration stats would be well in keeping with the norms of industrialized nations. We import too much crime, especially from countries that care little to prosecute criminals, much less capture them. A secure border would solve a myriad of problems; this being just one.
1
Texas is the state which is pushing most deliberately to reduce the incarceration-industrial complex.
1
" In the middle of the century, the United States was on par with other Western nations..."
In the middle of the *last* i.e. 20th century. The U.S. has been an outlier for some time now.
In the middle of the *last* i.e. 20th century. The U.S. has been an outlier for some time now.
5
What breaks my heart is the number of children who are incarcerated for years and years. Some do commit awful crimes, but they are treated as adults. A lot of times their youth and ignorance and judgment are the cause , and many make that one bad decision that locks them up forever. I am not talking about the ones who murder their entire families or other heinous crimes like that, (they should be in mental institutes), but the kid's who make that one mistake. Our prison system is broken and it's only going to get worse unless the power's that be begin to repair it.
17
Legalize and regulate drug use. Crime goes down by half or more, in the USA and Mexico.
68
It's time to end the war on drugs - we lost! Let's look at reality, like Portugal's success with decriminalizing all drugs, the extreme racial disparity for drug offenders, and the continued success of vicious drug cartels. I think we're ready as a country to try a different tactic.
99
Portugal is different. It's a country in which there are many political parties, ranging from fascists to conservatives to centrists to liberal to socialists to communists (a true democracy).
Yet when the Socialist government prior to the current Conservative one was forced to impose austerity (similar to what happened to Greece), the Socialists passed the austerity legislation and then the prime minister called a national election, knowing that he would be voted out of office, which he was.
Yet when the Socialist government prior to the current Conservative one was forced to impose austerity (similar to what happened to Greece), the Socialists passed the austerity legislation and then the prime minister called a national election, knowing that he would be voted out of office, which he was.
It's a very rare day that I feel an iota of appreciation for John Boehner, but on this issue I do and I hope he sticks with it. He could stand to make a real difference on this issue by tackling it rather than letting progress be obstructed.
55
This is wonderful news, and hopefully lawmakers will have the courage to repeal these outrageous mandatory minimums. The history of mandatory minimums is quite illuminating. The primary impetus for these laws was the death of college basketball player Len Bias. It is tragic that this young man's death has lead to the destruction of so many black men and their families.
3
Fine, however we need drug intervention programs, an job training, and jobs, otherwise we will double the addict population on the streets. Who benefits?
3
first it's reported that obama is interested in this issue then a story a week later that congress is poised to act i.e. sounds like the news is being manipulated for public consumption
5
Or maybe it just means that the White House has been working with legislators to see how the problem can be addressed in ways that appeal to both sides. Do you think legislation just appears out of nowhere? There are always conversations and tradeoffs beforehand. Politics is about the art of the deal and compromise, not the ideological deadlock we've been getting.
Where's the conspiracy in that? Of course politicians think about how to present their agenda to the public. I don't understand your vague suspicions: do you feel this is an issue that doesn't need to be addressed?
Where's the conspiracy in that? Of course politicians think about how to present their agenda to the public. I don't understand your vague suspicions: do you feel this is an issue that doesn't need to be addressed?
2
For someone who cares about sentencing reform, this Congressional debate has gotten a bit like watching your favorite team late in the game. With this Congress, you always have that feeling that something will come from nowhere and blow the whole thing up.
24
Yeah. I, too, am quite skeptical. If they were at all serious about this, they might have taken SOME action in the place of at least one of their attempts to repeat the ACA. This Congress has managed to eclipse the "Do nothing" Congress that Harry Truman faced by becoming the "Do nothing and do it poorly" Congress.
A number of the children I teach have one or more incarcerated family member. It is heartbreaking, they don't get to see them or only see them on special occasions, and younger kids don't understand why their family is split up. It is also frustrating as a teacher because I know the resources it takes to lock up so many people, and how much schools could benefit from even a fraction of the cost of prisons to our society.
We need an alternative to prison that allows family contact, but does more than just dump them back on the community. A works project for building that taught skills and kept people moving forward with their lives. Drug rehabilitation and mental health programs that are easier to access than a gun.
It will not be easy to redirect money from prisons to rehab, but we must do it. Prison employees will need to be retrained as their use declines.
We need an alternative to prison that allows family contact, but does more than just dump them back on the community. A works project for building that taught skills and kept people moving forward with their lives. Drug rehabilitation and mental health programs that are easier to access than a gun.
It will not be easy to redirect money from prisons to rehab, but we must do it. Prison employees will need to be retrained as their use declines.
55
A lot of low income families rely on crime to survive. They assume some family members will be in and out of jail or prison their entire lives. Problem is our government has destroyed the working class, forcing them to crime to make a living. Mostly car theft, selling parts, not even drugs. We need industry back, our jobs back from overseas, we need America First policies to protect and nurture our working and middle class taxpayers.
1
"A number of children I teach have one or more incarcerated family members".
Now-a-days they arrest and throw in jail the teachers for cheating but leave 'the banksters' to run free.
Nine Atlanta teachers headed to jail after test cheating scandal
www.pbs.org/.../nine-atlanta-teachers-headed-jail-cheating-scandal
Now-a-days they arrest and throw in jail the teachers for cheating but leave 'the banksters' to run free.
Nine Atlanta teachers headed to jail after test cheating scandal
www.pbs.org/.../nine-atlanta-teachers-headed-jail-cheating-scandal
4
For too long. Congress and its jailers, the courts and judges, have focused almost exclusively on street crimes. What about white-collar predations? Why not go after the banksters? Oh, wait, they're in bed with Congress. Can't have that, can we?
135
Minnesota is a state that understands how to deal with criminals. Their philosophy on prison is "we put in jail those people we are frightened of, not those that we are mad at." In 2005, 2006, they had 9000 people in prison of a state population of roughly 5,000 people, Wisconsin had 23,500 of roughly the same state population. Minnesota does not let people walk away from their crimes, but they understand the impact of prison and the probability that once there a prisoner is probably lost for life. People who commit non-violent crimes need a form of punishment but not prison. Murderers, serial killers, rapists, etc... need to be separated from society. Others do not. Our federal government and a lot of other States could learn a tremendous amount from Minnesota.
Quit arresting so many people in the first place when a conversation or warning would do.
108
But...but how will the private prison companies like GEO and Corrections Corporation of American keep churning out all those profits?? Think of the investments at stake, @whisper spritely! Think of all those jobs that will be lost!
26
The recidivism rate is 80% among YBM. So a likely unintended consequence of this feel good legislation will be more misery in the hood where these offenders are released.
10
One requirement of a Department of Justice program leads to arrest first and work out the details utilizing the multi-faceted criminal justice system later. https://www.bja.gov/Funding/13JMHCPsol.pdf