I personally find the “fight” for increased minimum wage to be nothing more than people who don't want to get better paying jobs and do the work required for those jobs. i understand that there are some people in management positions in minimum wage jobs who can’t get a better job but the actual number of people like that are on a 10 to 1 ratio of them to people who just refuse to try and get a better job and just want to be able to have a job like in a fast food management position and try to turn it into an actual life lasting job.
3
The problem in the economy is lack of demand RELATIVE to supply.
It turns out, demand comes from wages. The real problem is that workers have lost bargaining power across the entire economy. A high minimum wage is a crude method to improve demand, but it is a valid start.
The minimum wage in Australia is $16 for full time workers and $21 for part time. Australia, by the way, never experienced the Great Recession (one of only 2 nations to experience positive econ growth in 2009)
It turns out, demand comes from wages. The real problem is that workers have lost bargaining power across the entire economy. A high minimum wage is a crude method to improve demand, but it is a valid start.
The minimum wage in Australia is $16 for full time workers and $21 for part time. Australia, by the way, never experienced the Great Recession (one of only 2 nations to experience positive econ growth in 2009)
1
It seems so simple but some people don't get it. It doesn't really matter the skill level of the worker. Its about lifting people from poverty and getting money into the hands of people that spend it. Any worker should make at least $15.00 because we as a nation prosper when we all do .Its imperative that we pay people enough so they can buy goods and services which stimulate the economy whereas stock buybacks do not.
5
With the federal minimum wage stuck at $7.25 an hour since 2009, labor and religious groups have pressed state and local governments to enact pay raises as their hopes dim for an increase by the Republican/Tea Party-controlled Congress.
Last month, Los Angeles set its minimum wage to rise from $9 an hour to $15 by 2020, affecting some 600,000 workers.
Seattle and San Francisco also have increased minimum wages in recent years.
The increase to $15 an hour marks a major step from New York's current minimum wage of $8.75.
Last month, Los Angeles set its minimum wage to rise from $9 an hour to $15 by 2020, affecting some 600,000 workers.
Seattle and San Francisco also have increased minimum wages in recent years.
The increase to $15 an hour marks a major step from New York's current minimum wage of $8.75.
1
This is not a serious issue in the civilized world. Should the bottom rung of employable society be able to earn a living wage in the jobs they're able to find? Absolutely, every day of the week, and six times on Sunday when everyone against raising the minimum wage is in church praying for lower income taxes..
4
Saying that an increase in wages to a minimally acceptable level (who can live on $8.75 and hour?) is going to cause price increases is basically saying that these low-wage workers are subsidizing the lower prices AND the higher profits of these giant corporations whose shareholders whose stock dividends are also being subsidized by unethical wage scales. This should be yet another factor for people who like to buy "green" stocks: does the company pay a fair wage? If it doesn't, it's not sustainable.
6
I don't believe it's the government's role to dictate pay; minimum wage was supposed to be 'minimum' to stop laborers from being exploited. But it's also a reflection of the job skills/education needed.
Perhaps that is our real problem. Too many in the US have no or low skills, no real education (many here cannot adequately read or do math even with a HS diploma). Why?
We have 20 million illegal immigrants, an urban African American culture that disdains authority and school, and an increase in 'legal' immigrants from war torn countries where they never went to school. All coming to the US looking for free. Free healthcare, education, food, cell phones, etc.
Then we have a Congress that has, for the last 10+ years, continued to expand eligibility for freebies, and even pays you if you file a tax return and claim you didn't make much (no proof necessary).
Lastly, put into the mix the lie that the Fed tells us about inflation - only 2%. !!! Really? Oh, but the Fed doesn't count food or energy or most other necessities of life and mixed in foreclosures to deflate the actual inflation number. The Fed has kept the prime at 0% for so many years, no one can make anything on money they save.
And now you want to talk about $15 minimum wage?!!!! Me thinks that is not the real root cause of the problem.
Perhaps that is our real problem. Too many in the US have no or low skills, no real education (many here cannot adequately read or do math even with a HS diploma). Why?
We have 20 million illegal immigrants, an urban African American culture that disdains authority and school, and an increase in 'legal' immigrants from war torn countries where they never went to school. All coming to the US looking for free. Free healthcare, education, food, cell phones, etc.
Then we have a Congress that has, for the last 10+ years, continued to expand eligibility for freebies, and even pays you if you file a tax return and claim you didn't make much (no proof necessary).
Lastly, put into the mix the lie that the Fed tells us about inflation - only 2%. !!! Really? Oh, but the Fed doesn't count food or energy or most other necessities of life and mixed in foreclosures to deflate the actual inflation number. The Fed has kept the prime at 0% for so many years, no one can make anything on money they save.
And now you want to talk about $15 minimum wage?!!!! Me thinks that is not the real root cause of the problem.
6
"We wish to control big business so as to secure among other things good wages for the wage-workers and reasonable prices for the consumers. Wherever in any business the prosperity of the businessman is obtained by lowering the wages of his workmen and charging an excessive price to the consumers we wish to interfere and stop such practices. We will not submit to that kind of prosperity any more than we will submit to prosperity obtained by swindling investors or getting unfair advantages over business rivals."
Teddy Roosevelt
Teddy Roosevelt
8
By all means, persist in your faith. I tuned out after the third word.
2
I ask how you would feel if you were receiving the same pay you did in 2009? You mention inflation - should not increasing costs impact the minimum wage needed to prevent the exploitation of workers as you say it is designed to do? No one can live on $7.50 an hour in a US city today!
2
Why don't the large union pension funds buy up a thousand fast food franchises and then put their members in them at $15 or $20 per hour. Wouldn't that solve a bunch of problems? Good paying jobs, union members employed, a good return on the funds' investments since these places make so much money...
5
Just as the CEO of Papa John's Pizza and some of his conservative peers warned that they would have to cut jobs if Obama were elected for a second term;
just as health insurance companies deliberately hid behind the Affordable Care Act as an excuse to raise rates;
so, too, do corporations rail against paying livable wages by threatening automation.
And they get away with it because enough Americans, whose taxes, by the way, subsidize the corporations, refuse to demand a shred of data showing the need to carry out the threats.
I weep for the hunched backs I see and the sneering and scorn lobbed at them.
just as health insurance companies deliberately hid behind the Affordable Care Act as an excuse to raise rates;
so, too, do corporations rail against paying livable wages by threatening automation.
And they get away with it because enough Americans, whose taxes, by the way, subsidize the corporations, refuse to demand a shred of data showing the need to carry out the threats.
I weep for the hunched backs I see and the sneering and scorn lobbed at them.
6
only in the U.S. does executive pay exceed workforce pay by more the 25X.
here it's 450X - the real problem lies at the top of the pay scale.
here it's 450X - the real problem lies at the top of the pay scale.
10
Wow. Seems like a lot of the commenters must be highly skilled, well educated, and therefore superior to "these workers." "These workers" are our neighbors, friends, sons and daughters who have chosen to work in the fast food industry for myriad reasons, not just because they can't get a job anywhere else. Perhaps in the good old days (there seems to be a lot of nostalgia this morning among NY Times commenters) workers at fast food restaurants and service stations were teenagers and college students who lacked job skills or were just looking for temporary work. But have you been in the world lately? Have you noticed that the gas pumpers and "burger flippers" are young and old, white and Hispanic and black? Look at the photos of the workers at the Fight for $15 rallies. Open your eyes.
To assume that a McDonalds order taker or gas pumper is unskilled and poorly educated reeks of classism and prejudice. How dare you.
"Let them eat Happy Meal."
To assume that a McDonalds order taker or gas pumper is unskilled and poorly educated reeks of classism and prejudice. How dare you.
"Let them eat Happy Meal."
11
No, most people are not saying that all workers at McDonald's or a gas pumper are "unskilled" - they may be quite skilled in any number of areas or even possess high educational degrees. What you are overlooking is that the question is not about the people but the jobs themselves. It is the jobs that require little in the way of skills, with little consequence and often little responsibility. That is why they are low paying and were often the province of the young and inexperienced.
Stop reading too much into people's comments. "How dare you."
Stop reading too much into people's comments. "How dare you."
6
No George S. you are wrong. Most commenters criticize the worker because they assume fast food workers= unskilled slugs.
2
By the way George S. The posters " let them eat happy meals" was very clever , witty and appropriate " as opposed to yours which makes no sense. Educate yourself and google "let them eat cake."
1
Every time the minimum wage was increased, there were warnings of severe problems which would result. Those problems never happened. Why haven't we learned anything?
13
Compensation ratio over the past half-century:
http://bit.ly/1CUDHT7
From the Economic Policy Institute.
And people are complaining about $7?
http://bit.ly/1CUDHT7
From the Economic Policy Institute.
And people are complaining about $7?
2
Well done, corporatists.
You have managed to convince a rather large swath of people that cheating others out of their 401ks and pensions by way of hedge fund pencil-pushing is skilled hard work, while laboriously scrubbing public toilets and sliding around vats of hot grease is easy peasy.
Objectors wouldn't know real labor if it walked up and said "tax cut."
You have managed to convince a rather large swath of people that cheating others out of their 401ks and pensions by way of hedge fund pencil-pushing is skilled hard work, while laboriously scrubbing public toilets and sliding around vats of hot grease is easy peasy.
Objectors wouldn't know real labor if it walked up and said "tax cut."
15
A good subset of posters here are railing against the concerns of business owners.
For all of those naysayers try to be honest here.
Who bettered themselves and who made a true gamble their lives?
It isn't a fast food worker who chooses to see a job as a paycheck or see one's personal and professional development as irrelevant, but the business owner.
That same business owner that accepts putting his his/her's life savings on the line, borrows to the hilt from the bank, chooses to be responsible for employee hiring, training, coaching and payroll, embraces the difficult task of making timely payment of taxes to local, state and federal government, being informed and adhering to all types of changing government regulations, dealing on a daily basis with difficult contractors and distributors, as the most important task of finding ways to bringing in and retain customers.
Yep, business owners have it easy, right?
For all of those naysayers try to be honest here.
Who bettered themselves and who made a true gamble their lives?
It isn't a fast food worker who chooses to see a job as a paycheck or see one's personal and professional development as irrelevant, but the business owner.
That same business owner that accepts putting his his/her's life savings on the line, borrows to the hilt from the bank, chooses to be responsible for employee hiring, training, coaching and payroll, embraces the difficult task of making timely payment of taxes to local, state and federal government, being informed and adhering to all types of changing government regulations, dealing on a daily basis with difficult contractors and distributors, as the most important task of finding ways to bringing in and retain customers.
Yep, business owners have it easy, right?
5
So your point is that a businessman works hard and makes sacrifices so he's entitled to have slaves?
3
Many are born into wealth. As such, they didn't necessarily better themselves to get where they are, and all sure have had a lot of help from the government where tax breaks are concerned. As other have noted, no one is owed roads for transporting capital or courts for protecting wealth.
Alternatively, many low-wage workers FIND themselves in the position of having to adjust accordingly, most often through unexpected job outsourcing overseas. What better way to keep them out of the market as potential competitors than to keep wages suppressed?
To paraphrase: leave it to many business owners to be born on third base and brag that they batted a triple.
Alternatively, many low-wage workers FIND themselves in the position of having to adjust accordingly, most often through unexpected job outsourcing overseas. What better way to keep them out of the market as potential competitors than to keep wages suppressed?
To paraphrase: leave it to many business owners to be born on third base and brag that they batted a triple.
2
Borrows to the hilt, then when it doesn't work out, files bankruptcy after siphoning any profit into their personal accounts.
2
Why is the fast food industry singled out for a separate minimum wage? A majority of fast food locations are owned and operated by franchisees, local business people. Companies such as McDonald’s, Wendy’s, Burger King, and Yum Brands (Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell) make their money from royalties paid by franchisees which are based on sales. The negative impact of the minimum wage increase on the profitability of the fast food locations impacts the local franchisee, not the franchisor.
Retailers and home health service are not covered by the minimum wage increase. Why? I am sure large companies that own and operate stores such as The Limited, H&M, Urban Outfitters, and Macy’s certainly have employees that make less than $15 per hour. Many workers in the health care industry earn less than $15 per hour.
The idea of targeting a specific industry for the minimum wage increase is discriminatory.
Retailers and home health service are not covered by the minimum wage increase. Why? I am sure large companies that own and operate stores such as The Limited, H&M, Urban Outfitters, and Macy’s certainly have employees that make less than $15 per hour. Many workers in the health care industry earn less than $15 per hour.
The idea of targeting a specific industry for the minimum wage increase is discriminatory.
8
Perfectly said. “There’s a limit to how much somebody will pay for a hamburger,” Mr. Sulz said. “I think the end result is that I’m going to wind up cutting employees. I’ll automate as much as I can. I’ll get new technology that’s out there, and that’s going to replace a lot of people.”
The Progressive movement has "jumped the shark".
The Progressive movement has "jumped the shark".
6
Basic microeconomic says you're wrong. While each individual person has a limit, at any particular time, for what they would pay for a hamburger, from the retailers perspective, an increase of, say, $1 in the cost of the hamburger will have some *marginal* effect on the number of hamburgers consumed... although this assumes that the rise in the minimum wage doesn't effect the cost of the alternative to hamburgers--which it would. Bottom line: the owner wants to maximize his profits on the back of cheap labor--he can sell slightly more hamburgers at $3.50 than at $4.50. It's simply a question of what we think an hour of work is worth at the minimum.
3
There are always plenty of reasons why workers should be exploited, why poverty is good.
6
Workers are not exploited; working as a fast food employee is NOT a career and most that do work in this industry do so for 1-2 years at most. Don't believe the propaganda.
2
How interesting that many here do not see the connection between low wages, the demand for social services, and the fact that "fast" food prices are artificially low.
Also, why are your teen-aged children encouraged to suffer the stress from work at such an early age with these jobs? Do they not have a lifetime of work and developing a work ethic ahead of them, with their few teen years more appropriate for academic study and physical play?
One other question: Since your businesses hire so many people from overseas, how do you expect your workers to find skilled jobs at home? In their demand for cheap labor from overseas, have your businesses not created a situation where restaurant work is but one of fewer and fewer options for all, no matter their skills?
Also, why are your teen-aged children encouraged to suffer the stress from work at such an early age with these jobs? Do they not have a lifetime of work and developing a work ethic ahead of them, with their few teen years more appropriate for academic study and physical play?
One other question: Since your businesses hire so many people from overseas, how do you expect your workers to find skilled jobs at home? In their demand for cheap labor from overseas, have your businesses not created a situation where restaurant work is but one of fewer and fewer options for all, no matter their skills?
6
“I think the end result is that I’m going to wind up cutting employees. I’ll automate as much as I can. I’ll get new technology that’s out there, and that’s going to replace a lot of people."
Translation: if you want a living wage, I can make sure you get no wage at all!
The rents are going up for businesses so guess what? They are going up for workers too. Profits are going up for businesses but wages for workers have stayed stagnant for so long there is such a thing as the working poor.
Translation: if you want a living wage, I can make sure you get no wage at all!
The rents are going up for businesses so guess what? They are going up for workers too. Profits are going up for businesses but wages for workers have stayed stagnant for so long there is such a thing as the working poor.
7
Just how much are you willing to pay for a burger?
2
I'm willing to not buy a burger. How 'bout you? Ready for a drone Navy?
1
The industry and size of business discrimination will not hold up in court.
2
I wholeheartedly welcome this push to lift minimum wage. Burger King has been testing self ordering kiosks for years and generally it's much more pleasant and efficient interacting the machine than a live person. Plus now that a few places allow to order and pay by phone there's really little need for customer facing cashiers. Fast food will finally move into the internet age just as banks did with ATMs 40 years ago. For those few workers that remain to cook and expedite the food, I support a $25 per hour wage - it's still thoroughly unrealistic to believe that anyone can live in Manhattan (or commute to it) on $30,000 year. As for me I keep eating my $1.50 hot dog / drink meal deal at Costco where workers are paid fairly without government intervention.
7
Nigel Travis, CEO of Dunkin Donuts says that paying workers $15 an hour is outrageous. A $15 an hour wage works out to an annual income of $30,000 assuming a worker works 2,000 hours a year. Mr. Travis's compensation package for 2014 was $10,204,803 . He is in no position to complain about someone making $15 an hour when he's making over $5,000 an hour.
Donald Trump claims that if you're not rich, it is because you are stupid. This summer I started selling produce I grow in a local farmers market. I was surprised how many customers are on various food support programs. In dealing with them, I see that they aren't poor because they are stupid. They are poor because they are kind and decent people. The way this economic system is designed, the greedy are encouraged to bleed the rest of us dry. If we hesitate to grab as much as we can, we're treated as lacking initiative, being lazy, being stupid. Perhaps we need to treat the Trumps and 10 million dollar plus a year corporate executives as the pathologically greedy people they are.
Donald Trump claims that if you're not rich, it is because you are stupid. This summer I started selling produce I grow in a local farmers market. I was surprised how many customers are on various food support programs. In dealing with them, I see that they aren't poor because they are stupid. They are poor because they are kind and decent people. The way this economic system is designed, the greedy are encouraged to bleed the rest of us dry. If we hesitate to grab as much as we can, we're treated as lacking initiative, being lazy, being stupid. Perhaps we need to treat the Trumps and 10 million dollar plus a year corporate executives as the pathologically greedy people they are.
36
The reality is that it doesn't matter what you pay those people, they are ALWAYS going to be at the bottom of the economic food chain because they have no education, no skills, and nothing to offer the marketplace. Prices and wages will rise accordingly, and that $15 will have no more buying power than the $8 or $9 they make today, if the job is there at all. Those fast food places will go the way of many drug stores and grocery stores. They will have self serve registers, and customers will push the buttons to order, and swipe their cards, and that will be the end of it. The only way out of poverty is to get something to offer and get out of those jobs. By the way, anyone who thinks $15 an hour is a living wage in NYC or San Francisco is living wage they are delusional. I know someone living in San Francisco, who has a combined family income of nearly $250K, and he says he has to move because he can't afford to live there.
9
And as we all know there are plenty of living wage jobs out there. Just go into debt to get a college education and voila.
If the family making $250K finds it hard to live, how do those making $15K a year live? San Francisco does have workers, you know, bus drivers, sanitation men, retail clerks, bar tenders, doormen....
If the family making $250K finds it hard to live, how do those making $15K a year live? San Francisco does have workers, you know, bus drivers, sanitation men, retail clerks, bar tenders, doormen....
1
No, the reality is that increasing numbers of people are competing for work on a GLOBAL level and cannot find it.
But they have to eat, so they take what they can find, and very often, all they can find is a minimum wage job.
Why do you think college graduates are having such difficulty finding work? Because they have nothing better to do? Look around you: you will find a plethora of people with degrees wrapping up your to-go box and balancing your cups of hot coffee on one arm.
This is a creation of the business class, which lobbies the government for favors so it can keep more of its profits at the expense of everyone else. It is legalized bribery, and it is ruining this nation.
Also, you draw a causal link between automation and an increase in the minimum wage, when much of that automation has been in place long before a minimum wage increase was a blip on the screen.
And that logic, so called, is the worst thing about this whole thing: how well the business class had convinced the middle class to turn against itself.
But they have to eat, so they take what they can find, and very often, all they can find is a minimum wage job.
Why do you think college graduates are having such difficulty finding work? Because they have nothing better to do? Look around you: you will find a plethora of people with degrees wrapping up your to-go box and balancing your cups of hot coffee on one arm.
This is a creation of the business class, which lobbies the government for favors so it can keep more of its profits at the expense of everyone else. It is legalized bribery, and it is ruining this nation.
Also, you draw a causal link between automation and an increase in the minimum wage, when much of that automation has been in place long before a minimum wage increase was a blip on the screen.
And that logic, so called, is the worst thing about this whole thing: how well the business class had convinced the middle class to turn against itself.
5
Another NYT best pick? Ok we get it you are against a wage increase.
2
I note that one of the fast food restaurant owners said, "there's a limit to how much somebody will pay for a hamburger." This is more-or-less the false argument of those who oppose the rise in the minimum wage. Well guess what: maybe people *should* pay more for a hamburger, rather than exploit the labor of their fellow human beings. And, behold logic: if the minimum wage goes up, all purveyors of hamburgers will be affected in the same way, so it's not like it will put *your* restaurant at a competitive disadvantage.
9
The most instructive example of raising wages comes from, of all people, Henry Ford who raised the daily wage of his workers to an outrageous 5 dollars a day. This allowed them to buy more goods, not incidentally his cars. It's a basic economic lesson that most Republicans and many business people haven't learned.
9
Wilton - Henry Ford DOMINATED the market at the time. Model T. Any color as long as it is black. Pent up demand for transportation. The Government DID NOT force him to do this act. It was his risk.
3
Who said anything about government? You folks don't like it when it's elected, don't like it when it gets through congress, hate referendums, and can't stand it when the courts rule against you and your values. Yet, somehow, you're convinced ya'll are the "real 'merica".
Maybe it's time to leave the state and explore for a while.
Maybe it's time to leave the state and explore for a while.
2
workers should be minimally compensated for their labor at a level, whatever that level may be, that provides them with a minimally decent, whatever decent may be, standard of living.
the fact that we buy products on the back of worker misery is a shame on us, but a shame that we cannot judge through a simple product price. this is the crux of the debate: the price does not reflect our moral implication.
acquiring a product at the cost of human misery is slavery, however the economics in specific situations are arranged.
the call for an increased minimum wage is simply the call for product pricing that reflects the human contribution to its manufacture and sale.
if fast food restaurants and mass product manufacturers want to sell their wares at a lower price, then let them adopt robotics instead.
the fundamental purpose of an economy is not profit, but human welfare. that is the fundamental issue debated here.
the fact that we buy products on the back of worker misery is a shame on us, but a shame that we cannot judge through a simple product price. this is the crux of the debate: the price does not reflect our moral implication.
acquiring a product at the cost of human misery is slavery, however the economics in specific situations are arranged.
the call for an increased minimum wage is simply the call for product pricing that reflects the human contribution to its manufacture and sale.
if fast food restaurants and mass product manufacturers want to sell their wares at a lower price, then let them adopt robotics instead.
the fundamental purpose of an economy is not profit, but human welfare. that is the fundamental issue debated here.
9
"workers should be minimally compensated for their labor at a level, whatever that level may be, that provides them with a minimally decent, whatever decent may be, standard of living"
What ever happened to the idea that workers should be compensated at a level corresponding to the marginal increase in the value added by their labor? If an hour's worth of labor adds $10.00 to the value of the product or service, paying $15.00 is a sure recipe for bankruptcy.
What ever happened to the idea that workers should be compensated at a level corresponding to the marginal increase in the value added by their labor? If an hour's worth of labor adds $10.00 to the value of the product or service, paying $15.00 is a sure recipe for bankruptcy.
3
whatever happened was: the difference between an economy defined as a system to generate human welfare, or defined as a system to generate profit.
in your world: if the fry cook does not fry the frozen fries, they will never be purchased. the marginal value is defined by the sale price, not by the labor input. (in a similar analysis, CEOs do not earn their "value add" by means of the corporation's product pricing.)
in your world: if the fry cook does not fry the frozen fries, they will never be purchased. the marginal value is defined by the sale price, not by the labor input. (in a similar analysis, CEOs do not earn their "value add" by means of the corporation's product pricing.)
Can both proponents and opponents of a rise in the minimum wage agree on one thing? There is no such thing as a free lunch. Think about that.
2
^ this applies to profits as well as wages.
when you try to profit from worker misery - you end up with poor workers who cant buy your product.
think about that.
when you try to profit from worker misery - you end up with poor workers who cant buy your product.
think about that.
7
I would like see legislation to limit the spread between the median paid worker and the highest paid worker. 35 years ago, this number was high -- something like 40:1 (median, $25k, highest$1million). Now it is outrageous -- closer to 350:1 (median, $25k, highest, $9million). THAT is the wealth being soaked up by the 1% or 1%-ers.
17
Labor cost in the food industry is a small component of food cost. So the cost of a quarter pounder goes up 20-25 cents - big deal - if that's going to break the bank you should be buying food at the food store and cooking you own.
Its a myth that all fast food employees are kids in high school. Most now days are young adults with families.
Its a myth that all fast food employees are kids in high school. Most now days are young adults with families.
7
Imagine. $15 an hour to cut lawns or sling hamburgers. On the other hand, I hear that minimum wage earners are already worrying that a raise to $15 will disqualify them from receiving food stamps and subsidized public housing. See what happens when you move up to the middle class? Government benefits end, and you have to pay real taxes. What a dilema for those on the perpetual government dole.
7
Maybe it's time to blame the businesses whose employees are perpetually on the public dole instead of blaming the workers who get up day after day, put on a uniform and serve you hamburgers all day long.
5
I don't get your complaint. Those who WORK and still need government benefits - -because the billionaire employer won't pay a living wage -- are still criticized for being on the dole. Isn't it the employers who are depending on the dole?
2
But subsidizing GE and ExxonMobil is OK?
Honestly the complaints of fast food franchisees and other owners falls on deaf ears. We've heard all these non data backed arguments before.
5
I wonder how fast the lawyers are lining up to shut this down on the basis of discrimination against one particular industry? If $15.00 per hour is an appropriate minimum wage (another discussion, I know) for fast food workers, then why not across the board? The 14th Amendment, so beloved of the progressive movement, guarantees equal protection under the law, yet the fast food owners are being singled out for a special cost increase.
1
I've worked in a variety of big corporate offices in NYC. Worked at very large banks, media companies...varied experience as administrave asst to exec admin asst and up. For many of these corporate jobs, hourly wages range anywhere from $15 to low 20's an hour, sometimes higher. Having worked at Starbucks and as a waiter, I realize the difference in making higher wages...its a huge difference, and means the difference between simple survival and really living in a city like NY. Working as a temp, as I did, it means no health insurance or 401ks, just the hourly wage (and TONS of large companies hire their office staff through temp agencies).
The thing is, those corporate jobs are often filled with people with college degrees, even those lowly admin assistants, and most times its a pre-requisite. I've know quite a few people with master's degrees in those positions. So my question is...when the proverbial fast-food job, which has much lower education and experience requirements is now worth $15 an hour, what is happening to the corporate admin wages and other jobs that currently pay in that rage but demand more education and ability? I'd expect to earn at least double, so is my old $15/hr job now worth $30?
I'd like to read move analysis of this issue outside of the simple fast-food examples, and how it affects the economy on a wider scale. My hunch is its vastly more complex and that constantly focusing on the working poor doesn't really address that complexity.
The thing is, those corporate jobs are often filled with people with college degrees, even those lowly admin assistants, and most times its a pre-requisite. I've know quite a few people with master's degrees in those positions. So my question is...when the proverbial fast-food job, which has much lower education and experience requirements is now worth $15 an hour, what is happening to the corporate admin wages and other jobs that currently pay in that rage but demand more education and ability? I'd expect to earn at least double, so is my old $15/hr job now worth $30?
I'd like to read move analysis of this issue outside of the simple fast-food examples, and how it affects the economy on a wider scale. My hunch is its vastly more complex and that constantly focusing on the working poor doesn't really address that complexity.
5
Those who smugly philosophize that minimum wage jobs merely involve sweeping floors or handing back correct change should read Barbara Ehrenreich's now-classic "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America."
Unless, of course, your preferred narrative is simply too comfortable for you.
Unless, of course, your preferred narrative is simply too comfortable for you.
16
Why not raise it to $25? Why not draft a law mandating that no business may close because its costs are greater than its revenues?
My goodness - even post USSR, Cuba, Greece, etc., some will never understand the impossibility of creating wealth by fiat.
My goodness - even post USSR, Cuba, Greece, etc., some will never understand the impossibility of creating wealth by fiat.
3
^ as opposed to create wealth for owners via poverty wages for workers?
7
Chicago school, right? Still shaking from Krugman's column today, Professor? It's not about creating wealth. Fast food executives and share-holders will make plenty whether the minimum wage is $7 or $50. What it's about is a living wage. Fifteen bucks doesn't come close, much less 7.50.
4
But we all understand creating wealth by exploiting workers.
2
Part of the problem is that far too many lower-wage workers are so poorly educated. Even those with high school diplomas lack, in many cases, basic job skills. A close friend owns a small regional chain of fast food places and his stories/complaints are endless and really very sad. I agree that $8 isn't a livable wage, but we ignore the elephant in the room by not addressing low-wage workers' abilities or lack thereof.
8
Good point, and your solution would do much toward resolving another problem that is ruining lives and costing lots of money into the bargain, namely, a paucity of life-skills training resulting in, at best, no ambition or planning for higher education, poor spending choices, bad credit, and a familial cycle of poverty, and, at worst, the incarceration of those who miss forgotten court dates for tickets for speeding to work because they weren't ready in time to travel at a more reasonable pace, etc. My son is a public defender who tells me that many of his clients are people who are basically good, but who have just never managed to get their lives together. Some intervention prior to the apparent point is imperative if we wish to move forward as a more equitable society.
2
Anyone against raising the minimum wage should read this NYT piece from 2014 (http://nyti.ms/1tZpfEz) about fast food wages in Denmark. Whatever your political and/or economic philosophy, it'll give you a quick peek at what a civil society looks like.
5
Another example of "data be damned, let's fight for something!" Even the Congressional Budget Office states that the effort would cause "some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated and the income of those workers would fall substantially."
The best way to help these people is to create better jobs that pay more, instead of eliminating jobs by demanding a higher wage. The only reason for the national movement for higher minimum wages is because of the economic ignorance of many Americans and the faux sincerity of wealthy democrats who exploit them.
The best way to help these people is to create better jobs that pay more, instead of eliminating jobs by demanding a higher wage. The only reason for the national movement for higher minimum wages is because of the economic ignorance of many Americans and the faux sincerity of wealthy democrats who exploit them.
4
If a job does not pay a living wage, then it should be eliminated -- just as slavery was eliminated. And oh, how the plantation owners complained!
Would have been nice if you had shared the entire CBO report.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/44995-MinimumWage.pdf
The CBO ultimately claims uncertainy and a mix of results where increases in the minimum wage are concerned.
At least someone in the room is being honest.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/44995-MinimumWage.pdf
The CBO ultimately claims uncertainy and a mix of results where increases in the minimum wage are concerned.
At least someone in the room is being honest.
I am a librarian by vocation, although my field suffered from the Great Recession like all others, mostly from a combination of library schools adopting online approaches to earning the required master's degree, causing a flood of new librarians into the field each year, and baby boomers putting retirement on hold because of the Recession.
Although I have a professional position now, while I was looking, I took a part-time retail position because where I was living at the time had nothing else open.
The job was not in fast food, but I was earning minimum wage. I cleaned restrooms; let the possibilities sink in. I waited on customers who scapegoated me for every little thing that bothered them. Numerous times threats were made about bombing or robbing the place. Other employees, mostly teenagers, called in "sick" at the last minute all the time, and it was more than clear that if the rest of us did not stay later or did not come in when called on our days off that maybe we could move along elsewhere. Mandatory breaks were routinely ignored, and the general manager where I worked was such a hothead he had a stroke, leaving the already over-worked two other managers to deal with it all.
I can prove none of this, but I do not care if I am believed. This was my experience, and I hope to never have it again. All the you-know-what I had to put up with, mostly unseen from public view, is worth $15 an hour and then some.
Although I have a professional position now, while I was looking, I took a part-time retail position because where I was living at the time had nothing else open.
The job was not in fast food, but I was earning minimum wage. I cleaned restrooms; let the possibilities sink in. I waited on customers who scapegoated me for every little thing that bothered them. Numerous times threats were made about bombing or robbing the place. Other employees, mostly teenagers, called in "sick" at the last minute all the time, and it was more than clear that if the rest of us did not stay later or did not come in when called on our days off that maybe we could move along elsewhere. Mandatory breaks were routinely ignored, and the general manager where I worked was such a hothead he had a stroke, leaving the already over-worked two other managers to deal with it all.
I can prove none of this, but I do not care if I am believed. This was my experience, and I hope to never have it again. All the you-know-what I had to put up with, mostly unseen from public view, is worth $15 an hour and then some.
17
The fact that many people are willing to do it for less than $15 an hour suggests that you are wrong.
Many people are willing to do it because they have no choice.
1
Do you really think minimum wage and all its "glory" is an aspiration for most people?
I would like to see that data if you have it.
I would like to see that data if you have it.
2
Listen, I understand most folks don’t have access to, or money for, a local brewpub with grass-fed beef, artisanal mustard, hickory smoked bacon, and holistically crafted blue cheese. But is why in the name of (insert deity here) would any reasonably sane person willingly enter a McDonalds or Burger King for any reason other than to pee? I would not consume their “food” if were offered for free.
5
As this movement spreads, the resulting wage increases will have some interesting ramifications; for one, it will boost Social Security taxes and current benefits. The latter will be great for current retirees, but benefits in terms of real dollars will ultimately decrease, since Social Security benefit formulas currently in place have fixed thresholds above which the percentage of pre-retirement income replaced is reduced. Low wage workers now have 90% of the first $9,000 of their annual earned income replaced with SS benefits, with another 32% of earnings above that level replaced. Unless the current threshold of $9,000 is increased, future low-income retirees may see a much smaller proportion of the earned income replaced in retirement.
Another impact, of course, will be galloping wage inflation for most people making much more than the minimum wage today, unless the short-term response is to reduce the wages of those demanding the $15 minimum to zero by replacing them with automation. When I worked at a burger place years ago, most tasks were already automated to a great extent, and I would guess that only affordable wages and the desire of customers for service by real people have kept full automation at bay.
I certainly think that people deserve to be paid a living wage, but think that controls will have to be put in place to prevent wholesale disaster from the unforeseen implications of such a policy, including those affecting the very people it is intended to help.
Another impact, of course, will be galloping wage inflation for most people making much more than the minimum wage today, unless the short-term response is to reduce the wages of those demanding the $15 minimum to zero by replacing them with automation. When I worked at a burger place years ago, most tasks were already automated to a great extent, and I would guess that only affordable wages and the desire of customers for service by real people have kept full automation at bay.
I certainly think that people deserve to be paid a living wage, but think that controls will have to be put in place to prevent wholesale disaster from the unforeseen implications of such a policy, including those affecting the very people it is intended to help.
When the Occupy Movement first held sit in protests on Wall Street, the New York Times ridiculed and mocked the protesters as the unwashed, unemployed, unmotivated of America and predicted that the Occupiers, supposedly leaderless and with no cohesive agenda would disappear. Four years later, the activism and progressive economic agenda of the Occupiers and their allies continues to change this country and the world, improving the lives of low income Americans and forcing the mainstream media and politicians to discuss income inequality. Goes to show when We the People stand steadfast together, shout, and act, we can make a difference against the 1 percent and their allies in the Fourth Estate.
6
The owner of 3 McD's where I live may have to sell one of their homes if this sort of law passed here. Either that or cut jobs at their restaurants. This is creating a lot of stress for them and their children who like to vacation at the family compounds and feel for their employees too.
5
Why can't he raise his prices to cover the increased labor cost?
I have no problem with employers making a profit. But I don't see why
employees should have to work at a poverty wage just so this employer can
live the good life and afford to have multiple homes
I have no problem with employers making a profit. But I don't see why
employees should have to work at a poverty wage just so this employer can
live the good life and afford to have multiple homes
1
...so then then this person would only own one home? That's still more then some folks have. Would this person also have to sell one of their 3 cars as well? Perhaps a slightly less posh "family compound"? Tragic outcome indeed.
Your comment is facetious, no?
A McDonald's franchise (or maybe individual restaurant) was said to require quite a lot of personal investment capital even years ago, so I can't imagine what that would cost today. In other words, to even think of buying into McDonalds, someone must already have substantial personal wealth.
One of my relatives eschewed college in favor of starting a landscaping business, and now has more money than anyone else in the family, earned, doubtlessly, on the backs of minimum-wage workers with no benefits. How any wealthy business owner can stomach such an arrangement is beyond my comprehension.
That said, the end of cheap meals is coming. In my travels in Europe, where wages and benefits are more equitable, I noticed very few McDonalds and other fast-food outlets. Those were located either in large cities or at highway oases, with $12 Big Macs and an additional charge to use restrooms. The KFC in Holland was even unhealthier than here, because, instead of our staple of mashed potatoes, only French fries were offered! The next level up was even more expensive, with better food than, but prices on a par with better casual dining here, at $20 to $25 per meal. A Coke served in a small glass would cost the equivalent of $4 - $5.
A McDonald's franchise (or maybe individual restaurant) was said to require quite a lot of personal investment capital even years ago, so I can't imagine what that would cost today. In other words, to even think of buying into McDonalds, someone must already have substantial personal wealth.
One of my relatives eschewed college in favor of starting a landscaping business, and now has more money than anyone else in the family, earned, doubtlessly, on the backs of minimum-wage workers with no benefits. How any wealthy business owner can stomach such an arrangement is beyond my comprehension.
That said, the end of cheap meals is coming. In my travels in Europe, where wages and benefits are more equitable, I noticed very few McDonalds and other fast-food outlets. Those were located either in large cities or at highway oases, with $12 Big Macs and an additional charge to use restrooms. The KFC in Holland was even unhealthier than here, because, instead of our staple of mashed potatoes, only French fries were offered! The next level up was even more expensive, with better food than, but prices on a par with better casual dining here, at $20 to $25 per meal. A Coke served in a small glass would cost the equivalent of $4 - $5.
Is no one thinking of the ramifications of this??
1. A $15 minimum wage in one industry will increase demand for those jobs and thus the 'quality' of applicants will rise. Many people who are employed now will be pushed out because they can be replaced by seemingly better people.
2. What happens to the people currently making $15/hr. If I was in a skilled job making that and suddenly people at McDonald's are being paid the same amount, I would demand more money. There will be upward pressure on wages.
1. A $15 minimum wage in one industry will increase demand for those jobs and thus the 'quality' of applicants will rise. Many people who are employed now will be pushed out because they can be replaced by seemingly better people.
2. What happens to the people currently making $15/hr. If I was in a skilled job making that and suddenly people at McDonald's are being paid the same amount, I would demand more money. There will be upward pressure on wages.
7
Yes. We all need a raise -- except for the CEO who is already bringing home $10 million a year.
2
I understand the appeal of fixing poverty with one simple legislation, but if one of society's biggest problems (poverty) were that easy to fix...
Why not then put limits on executive compensation? Maybe we should limit the amount of money surgeons make too. Then we can start stetting the price of hamburgers and other products to make sure there is enough money to pay for fixed labor costs.
I believe the government's involvement should be limited to ensuring that workers have a safe working environment, promoting the free movement of labor and assisting in training workers to adapt to a changing labor market. They should not, however, be price setters.
If McDonald's is making billions off the sweat of workers, then someone should open a better restaurant to attract the best workers at a higher wage. This happens in real life believe it or not.
What I don't think is correct is to have the government fueling corporate profits by subsidizing labor costs through welfare programs financed by personal income taxes. The better way is to subsidize welfare by insisting businesses pay their fair share of taxes. Google, GE, Apple owe billions in taxes while lower-and-middle class American gets fined for filing late. The picket signs should read "Google, pay your taxes!"
Why not then put limits on executive compensation? Maybe we should limit the amount of money surgeons make too. Then we can start stetting the price of hamburgers and other products to make sure there is enough money to pay for fixed labor costs.
I believe the government's involvement should be limited to ensuring that workers have a safe working environment, promoting the free movement of labor and assisting in training workers to adapt to a changing labor market. They should not, however, be price setters.
If McDonald's is making billions off the sweat of workers, then someone should open a better restaurant to attract the best workers at a higher wage. This happens in real life believe it or not.
What I don't think is correct is to have the government fueling corporate profits by subsidizing labor costs through welfare programs financed by personal income taxes. The better way is to subsidize welfare by insisting businesses pay their fair share of taxes. Google, GE, Apple owe billions in taxes while lower-and-middle class American gets fined for filing late. The picket signs should read "Google, pay your taxes!"
4
Could raising the minimum wage have a negative effect on prices where the cost of necessities (milk, eggs, etc..) go up as well? I am not a fan of $6 milk....
God forbid we ever have to pay for the actual cost of food.
And God forbid i have to pay $2.00 more for milk just because it raises millions out of poverty. Darn all those lazy, entitled workers who think they're deserving to be fairly compensated. Pity theres so many like you.
The real issue in all of this is that the country can't support the population. Technology and a global economy have shrunk the workforce needed. Meanwhile the population keeps increasing.
10
And you think this is merely a national problem?
Can someone explain WHY the proposal to raise the minimum wage is the same in New York City as it is in middle-of-nowhere, NY?
3
It's going to be phased in several years later in midd-of-nowhere NY.
The simple answer is that people in cities do not want competition from those in suburban or rural areas, where costs are lower.
1
Where's a high school kid gonna get a part time job? $15 per hour will attract retirees...Perhaps $15 could apply to people over age 21... We'd just have to change the employment laws...It's not written in stone...
2
The predictable cry and hue over the raising of the minimum wage is alive and well in this forum - never mind the fact that the objectors never have a shred of data showing undue harm caused to the economy by previous federal minimum wage raises.
6
The wages paid and the price of the food should reflect the true cost of doing business. Today, we have disconnect. Artificially low wages and prices are being subsidized by various forms of public assistance to low-wage workers. If people want to eat fast food, they should be willing to pay the true price of providing the product to them.
5
What if people are NOT willing to "pay the true price" for fast food? Would it be better if these businesses don't exist?
That's the nature of any business. If people won't pay for your services, you go out of business. That said, consumers have shown a willingness to pay much higher prices to eat at places like Chipotle and Panera. If the McDonald's of the world want to keep customers at a slightly higher price point, it's up to them to raise the quality and appeal of their product.
1
The business class is showing itself to be the most self-entitled bunch in the room.
Business owners willfully operate from and thrive by a taxpayer-funded infrastructure, thus handing the government the right to set guidelines.
Just as business owners like to claim that no one owes anyone a job, it is just as true that business owners are not owed an infrastructure from which to profit.
Therefore, a business owner that does not like government interference, including the setting of minimum wages, can go operate off the grid. That would be a true market force.
It really is just that straightforward.
Business owners willfully operate from and thrive by a taxpayer-funded infrastructure, thus handing the government the right to set guidelines.
Just as business owners like to claim that no one owes anyone a job, it is just as true that business owners are not owed an infrastructure from which to profit.
Therefore, a business owner that does not like government interference, including the setting of minimum wages, can go operate off the grid. That would be a true market force.
It really is just that straightforward.
20
The increased minimum wage is actually kind of a mixed blessing. Mid-level wages having plateaued or even gone down, before too many years 80% of the American work force--whether they scrub toilets. flip burgers, or poke at a keyboard in an office--will be making that hallowed $15 an hour. Only then it won't be called minimum wage anymore, but standard wage or base wage. And forget the 40-hour weeks.
Meanwhile, prices and rents continue to skyrocket out of control.
Meanwhile, prices and rents continue to skyrocket out of control.
8
How about reducing the glut of low income people coming across the border (both legally and illegally) with a sensibly enforceable border policy, e-verify and the like and then the market forces can take care of this issue via supply and demand? When you continually dumps hundreds of thousands of low skilled people into the labor market, it's no wonder that wages are depressed. And now imposing draconian wage increases on businesses which is going to CRUSH small business unless there's some kind of associated tax credit. A minimum wage indexed to inflation, sure. But singling out an entire industry and DOUBLING the wage in about three years time? Talk about disruptive and unfair. But no problem to the dems...it's ultimately ensuring a permanent voting bloc and we'll just legislate more redistributive schemes to further accommodate at the expense of these "evil" businesses. The inability to see beneath the surface of the Progressive agenda and how all these purported efforts to "champion" the middle class are actually contributing to wage decline and stagnancy is astounding. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can't legislate growth.
5
The feds should not involve themselves in private business ....unless of course it benefits the business and not the employee.
1
"What started in New York City as a seemingly quixotic drive for fast-food workers has spread to the point that it has become a significant, and divisive, element in the presidential campaign."
What does it say about the Times and/or its readership that the impact on the presidential horse race rather than the impact on millions of working people is the article's focus? Probably not good things.
Personally, I am far more interested in the fact that--far from the radar of the ruling powers, let alone our two corporate political parties--something like a movement of working people and families is taking shape.
What does it say about the Times and/or its readership that the impact on the presidential horse race rather than the impact on millions of working people is the article's focus? Probably not good things.
Personally, I am far more interested in the fact that--far from the radar of the ruling powers, let alone our two corporate political parties--something like a movement of working people and families is taking shape.
The last time I earned minimum wage I was a teenager pumping gas, checking oil and washing windshields. I worked for two stations and both owners were true small business owners, one station each. I was glad to have the job and of course I was living at home. With the exception of Oregon and New Jersey there are very few jobs pumping gas anymore.
I don't know how the change will come about but I'm pretty sure the fast food industry will be able to reduce the number of workers required. Good luck to those teenagers interested in earning some extra money. The fairy tale is these jobs are designed to support a family. These jobs are true entry level and the fact that some people have not acquired skills to move on or have been laid off from better jobs does not change that fact.
I don't know how the change will come about but I'm pretty sure the fast food industry will be able to reduce the number of workers required. Good luck to those teenagers interested in earning some extra money. The fairy tale is these jobs are designed to support a family. These jobs are true entry level and the fact that some people have not acquired skills to move on or have been laid off from better jobs does not change that fact.
10
Problem is that the majority of all jobs are now low wage jobs. Living wage jobs continue to disappear.
1
We've just found the cure for the obesity epidemic. Prices at fast food outlets will be so high the bill for dinner for a family of five at Burger KIng will look like one from Four Seasons. Who will be able to afford it? This approach also worked for tobacco related issues: tax them into oblivion. When Billy Bob has to pay $10 for his egg and lard from Mickey D's he may head for the fruit aisle at Whole Foods. But wait a minute--are the clerks at WF going to get raises too?
3
The Republicans are on the wrong side of this issue but that is not new for them.
4
Yes, it is important for the people of this country to be able to care for themselves and their families, that their work environment is safe from physical and emotional abuse, that they are not discriminated against. Yes, stand-up for your rights as a human being. BUT if you don't get out there and vote the GOP out of office, what you believe you may have gained now in your fight will be only a memory of days gone past if they win. The average people are being kept busy with dollar issues while the super rich are setting us up for the complete loss of our rights. This is the so called "capitalism" that the GOP are pushing for:
Business leaders buy off politicians in return for favors
Absence of regulation for banking /finance system. This encourages banks to take risks and pursue profit through complex financial derivatives rather than basic principles of attracting deposits and lending.
Less regulation on abuse of monopoly power.
Lower income tax and lower capital gains tax giving greater rewards to high income earners.
An unregulated labor market, where it is easy to hire and fire workers, and very limited regulation about working conditions.
GET OUT AND VOTE...SAY "NO MORE KOCH/GOP". This is the real fight.
Business leaders buy off politicians in return for favors
Absence of regulation for banking /finance system. This encourages banks to take risks and pursue profit through complex financial derivatives rather than basic principles of attracting deposits and lending.
Less regulation on abuse of monopoly power.
Lower income tax and lower capital gains tax giving greater rewards to high income earners.
An unregulated labor market, where it is easy to hire and fire workers, and very limited regulation about working conditions.
GET OUT AND VOTE...SAY "NO MORE KOCH/GOP". This is the real fight.
4
1: "There's a limit to what somebody will pay for a hamburger" said the owner.
2: McDonald's workers in NY collect $700M in public benefits annually.
For anyone who failed to make the connection, here it is: the price of hamburgers has been subsidized by the taxpayer. Is that good policy? Only if your business is sell heart valves and stents to heart attack patients.
The price of hamburgers MUST rise, because the cost of those hamburgers has been artificially low all these years because the taxpayer has been picking up the tab. Any free-market capitalists in the Republican party should want employers to compensate their employees and charge the necessary price to customers. If the effect of removing the subsidy is less hamburgers being bought and more groceries being bought, well that's capitalism for you.
Liberals and conservatives agree that welfare programs should shrink. Liberals want them to shrink because poor Americans no longer need to depend on them. Conservatives want them to shrink because poor Americans accept a lower standard of living.
2: McDonald's workers in NY collect $700M in public benefits annually.
For anyone who failed to make the connection, here it is: the price of hamburgers has been subsidized by the taxpayer. Is that good policy? Only if your business is sell heart valves and stents to heart attack patients.
The price of hamburgers MUST rise, because the cost of those hamburgers has been artificially low all these years because the taxpayer has been picking up the tab. Any free-market capitalists in the Republican party should want employers to compensate their employees and charge the necessary price to customers. If the effect of removing the subsidy is less hamburgers being bought and more groceries being bought, well that's capitalism for you.
Liberals and conservatives agree that welfare programs should shrink. Liberals want them to shrink because poor Americans no longer need to depend on them. Conservatives want them to shrink because poor Americans accept a lower standard of living.
4
And when McDonalds lets those people go due to automation, the cost to society increases. But it will no longer be on McDonald's tab, so I suppose you will be happy.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that McD's is subsidizing NYs welfare rolls, by reducing the amount the state/city pays to people who would otherwise be completely without income.
just set a maximum wage at 20 times the minimum and watch how fast the minimum goes up.
9
All that will do is restructure businesses so the lower paid work is contracted out. Since the low paid people are no longer employees, problem solved!
most is already subbed out. the change occurred long ago.
1
for goodness sake no one can deny that $8 an hour before taxes is a sorry and indefensible number, no matter how menial the work. But our governor has decided to pander for votes, bypass the legislature, push through an appeasement that caters to only one group of workers…….what about that orderly in the healthcare sector? How about some reason and fairness in the move to narrow the inequality gap? Are we to be forever denied the benefit of intelligent government decision making…..a process that appears forever motivated by the 'whats-in-it-for-me' thinking?
4
The orderly will have to fight, just as the fast food workers fought -- and just as our ancestors fought for living wages.
I am not sure the ability to sweep should support a family.
5
Neither should the ability to sit at a terminal in a cubicle all day.
I'm all for free commerce but hope that people understand the ramifications of this as it makes its way through the supply chain. Prices will increase across the board for all kinds of things. Just saying, don't expect to pay $5 for that Happy Meal anymore.
3
Prices will increase slightly, Anita, and millions of workers will have more income to circulate through the economy and it will have dramatic economic multiplier effects that boost the overall economy, employee morale and customer service.
Labor makes up a small portion of the overall cost of prices; that $5 Happy Meal may go up by 50 cents, and even more people will buy them because of the improved economy.
Labor makes up a small portion of the overall cost of prices; that $5 Happy Meal may go up by 50 cents, and even more people will buy them because of the improved economy.
3
Right. You'll pay $5.05 instead.
2
With two thirds of Americans overweight to obese, making fast food more expensive is not such a bad idea.
1
Businesses will respond in two ways.
1. Wage pressures will squeeze margins forcing management to raise prices. Their food will look even less attractive because the law does not have an effect on traditional "sit and eat" restaurants, consumers will shift more of their business to sit down restaurants because they look cheaper relative to the fast food alternative.
2. Management will cut the most inefficient workers and leave only the most efficient in order to keep margins constant. Inefficient workers will be forced back to the social safety net and increase unemployment in the city, costing the taxpayers money and not the businesses.
In my opinion, this is a cyclical solution to a structural problem. I know that it would be hard to make a decent living working at a fast food restaurant, but that's exactly the point. If you make a career of working in fast food and never trying to expand on your skill set then YOU WILL HAVE A HARD LIFE. Skill building is the only way for these workers to increase their real wages. They should have asked for the businesses to pay for some sort of trade school or college or something similar.
1. Wage pressures will squeeze margins forcing management to raise prices. Their food will look even less attractive because the law does not have an effect on traditional "sit and eat" restaurants, consumers will shift more of their business to sit down restaurants because they look cheaper relative to the fast food alternative.
2. Management will cut the most inefficient workers and leave only the most efficient in order to keep margins constant. Inefficient workers will be forced back to the social safety net and increase unemployment in the city, costing the taxpayers money and not the businesses.
In my opinion, this is a cyclical solution to a structural problem. I know that it would be hard to make a decent living working at a fast food restaurant, but that's exactly the point. If you make a career of working in fast food and never trying to expand on your skill set then YOU WILL HAVE A HARD LIFE. Skill building is the only way for these workers to increase their real wages. They should have asked for the businesses to pay for some sort of trade school or college or something similar.
11
Dude--we need people to work in fast food. Somebody will be working there, even if everyone in the country gets an advanced degree. We all understand they are never going to make a lot, but should they be impoverished? Should the government be required to subsidize them?
Second, some people may for whstever reason not be capable of what you are suggesting. They still deserve a working wage.
Third, there will soon not be enough jobs. What will we do then? Let them starve?
Second, some people may for whstever reason not be capable of what you are suggesting. They still deserve a working wage.
Third, there will soon not be enough jobs. What will we do then? Let them starve?
3
I completely agree.
The economy needs jobs that are easy to obtain in a short time frame. These jobs are meant to be temporary "stepping stones" with low risk and low reward.
If fast food employees are guaranteed $15/hour the work will become desirable and and there will be COMPETITION for these jobs.
The economy needs jobs that are easy to obtain in a short time frame. These jobs are meant to be temporary "stepping stones" with low risk and low reward.
If fast food employees are guaranteed $15/hour the work will become desirable and and there will be COMPETITION for these jobs.
Sure. Plenty of living wages around.
Not one word from all the owners and stockholders about how they can afford these almost insignificant increases for the wage slaves who generate their wealth much like slaves on plantations and farm workers but refuse to take a slight equity cut in the millions and billions they steal.
Its like the oil industry accepting government welfare in the form of tax breaks and oild depletion allowances and claiming they can't afford to pay more equitable taxes.
American's concerns should be more about our values for fairness, equity, equality, morality, freedom and sanity and less about objecting to helping those less fortunate due to socail class, race, sexual orientation, etc.
In the end we are measured by how we help all, not a few.
Its like the oil industry accepting government welfare in the form of tax breaks and oild depletion allowances and claiming they can't afford to pay more equitable taxes.
American's concerns should be more about our values for fairness, equity, equality, morality, freedom and sanity and less about objecting to helping those less fortunate due to socail class, race, sexual orientation, etc.
In the end we are measured by how we help all, not a few.
6
You have been lied to about the oil industry. Its depletion allowances are the equivalent of depreciation that every business is allowed. You should go back and check the source, and find out what else they were wrong about.
Giving chains of fewer than 30 restaurants, and standalone restaurants, a $6 an hour advantage is ridiculous. They will be able to offer much lower prices to customers, and take all the business. That means the mass-market employees of the chains will lose their jobs when their places go out of business because they can't compete.
8
You gotta love the Burger King owner who feels depressed because he's not appreciated for all his postive contributions to the community. You'd think the guy ran a soup kitchen or a free dental clinic the way he carries on. Burger King is a legal business, and I a suppose it has a legitimate place in the economy and "culture," but the reality is its food is terrible healthwise and its low wages mean the taxpayer subsidizes this guy's business operation. If he really wants to be appreciated, maybe he ought to carry his own weight. - you know, pull himself up by his own bootstraps. Stop expecting everyone else to pay for the cost of running his business.
68
I believe BK took their headquarters into Canada last year to lower their corporatet tax rate...
1
The Burger King owner is a small business owner. Not a corporate CEO. Not an oligarch. Someone who likely took out a loan for several hundred thousand to a few million and put his family's entire financial future on the line.
Since you have clearly never run a business, those decisions are made with a great deal of analysis and trepidation and knowing that several years will be very tight in order to pay back the loans. Minimum salary is taken to begin with.
And now with the minimum wage change, the owner is wondering if he will even stay in business. And if he fails, everyone will be out of work.
Since you have clearly never run a business, those decisions are made with a great deal of analysis and trepidation and knowing that several years will be very tight in order to pay back the loans. Minimum salary is taken to begin with.
And now with the minimum wage change, the owner is wondering if he will even stay in business. And if he fails, everyone will be out of work.
So workers should continue to be exploited.
The Republicans should act now to take this issue off the table by raising the Federal minimum wage indexed to inflation. The minimum wage has not been changed since 2007. This is a populist move which would disarm the Democrats, otherwise the Republicans will be bludgeoned on this issue for the next 16 months.
3
Republicans will not raise the minimum wage because they believe it is an infringement upon free enterprise. It's kind of like the Democrats' refusal to restructure Social Security, which would make financial sense but infringes on their commitment to middle class entitlements. It's not all about political opportunism for the two parties. They have belief systems that underlie many of their policy decisions.
The article quotes "business owners" extensively, all whining about increased labor costs that will hurt their businesses. But oddly I can't find anything in the article that counters those narratives with facts and data. It's almost like the author doesn't care about facts and data which are easily found if one knows how to use the google machine. So another meaningless article that doesn't even attempt to refute the fact free dogma of the plutocratic class. Thanks NYTimes for another meaningless suck up to the oligarchs.
35
Franchise owners are not oligarchs. They're local small businessmen/women. The margins in the restaurant and grocery business are very thin. These people actually work and run these businesses, which is not easy. What do you do?
1
Just in the last week Paul Krugman has summarized the evidence that raising the minimum wage does not reduce employment, in the pages of this very newspaper. Why do the reporters not talk to at least one economist who has actually studied this issue, rather than just to business owners? It turns out that business owners save so much money from reduced staff turnover, training and sick days, and from increased productivity, that the increased wage hardly affects their overall costs at all.
43
What is it with NY Times readers that seem to think that what Paul presents is gospel, rather than what it is: A left-leaning economist's informed opinion. With equal emphasis on both informed and opinion.
More than anything else, it suggests that our educational systems failed to teach critical reading skills.
More than anything else, it suggests that our educational systems failed to teach critical reading skills.
I'm fine with increase the minimum hourly pay rate to $15.00. More ipads will be making their way into these restaurants unfortunately. In order to increase pay rates you need to increase the skill levels.
However that takes hard work and dedication from our politicians, just not talk of equal pay.
However that takes hard work and dedication from our politicians, just not talk of equal pay.
6
How does one "increase skill levels" when one is in a low-wage job? I think you mean "increase productivity", and worker productivity has been on the rise for the past 30 years. Meanwhile, inflation has far outpaced the minimum wage, meaning a real decline for workers performing the same job.
4
The working people who are currently being paid the minimum wage of $8.75 are being played for the ignorants they are. The wage will increase to $15 in 6 years! At that time, the $15 will have the same purchasing power $8.75 has today, and they'll be whining for even higher wages.
And even if they were given a massive boost to $15 now, how soon after would they be whining for more, claiming $15 isn't enough?
And even if they were given a massive boost to $15 now, how soon after would they be whining for more, claiming $15 isn't enough?
4
Just wait Mr. Cuomo...the biggest customers of "fast food" are those lower-income people who patronize those stores since they can get the most calories per dollar by eating there for their families...all this does is push up the cost of the food they will eat proportionally...and so all we have done is moved money around the board at the expense of the business owner. Talk about class warfare!!!
5
I'm sure many of the lower income people you are referring to would prefer to have the cost of a fresh meal more in line with fast food so that they could have decent options.
Same old Blah! Blah! Blah! Every time there is a push to raise the profoundly low Minimum Wage, the minions of the Oligarchs come out and spew their constant refrain that the sky will fall; they'll have to lay off workers; they'll have to raise prices; it will hurt most the people who need the raise the most etc. etc. etc. It's always a tempest in a teapot and after the higher wages tale effect, SURPRISE!, no problem.
21
Um, why don't they stop paying their bloated CEOs a bajillion dollars a year and funnel that money to labor costs? We are a society, which means we should take care of one another and make life worth living for as many people as possible. The goal should not be for the 1% to own 5 houses, a jet and a Rolls Royce.
28
The CEOs of these big companies should eat the cost of raising the minimum wage. It should come out of their profits, bonuses, and salaries. Instead, they will probably pass it along to the consumer or hire fewer people. I still believe that the minimum wage needs to be raised, but the greedy people at the top need to grow a social conscience. And if they can't grow one, we need to elect people who will legislate one.
28
Maybe you need to take some additional math courses. In 2013, the CEO of McDonalds had a pay package of almost $14,000,000. Of the 1,900,000 persons employed at McDonalds, approximately 400,000 are employees of McDonalds, the others are employees of franchisees. If the CEO gave up his entire salary and gave it to his 400,000 employees, that would amount to $35 per employee per year. If those employees work an average of 1,000 hours a year, that amounts to 3.5 cents per hour.
3
A social conscience. According to who? You? Please.
You seem to forget that most McDonald's locations, for example, are not corporate owned, but are franchisee owned. Mom-and-pop organizations typically do not have C-level suites.
1
There is reason even for us liberals to take pause at this rise in the minimum wage. The typical means government employs to benefit the working poor is by government programs, like health care, food stamps, and tax credits. Private companies are regulated to assure safe work conditions, not to regulate wages above the bare minimum. The secondary effects of substantial raises are real and are best understood by those in the private sector. Moreover, the definition of fast food establishments in the applicable law is so ambiguous that an army of lawyers will likely look for loopholes. The government, it seems to me, is out of its league. It ought to use existing programs to help workers and leave the determination of their wages where it has always been -- with their employers.
5
You've got to be kidding! Leave this up TO EMPLOYERS? If we had left wages, living conditions, and who should work (i.e. children?) to employers, the U.S. would never have left Third World status. The bottom line is Capitalism has always been about GREED and most employers would pay their employees virtually NOTHING if they could get away with it. If you're a Liberal, Heaven help us if Conservatives stay in charge in Congress and assume the Presidency.
1
There will need to be a comprehensive plan to phase in increases in federal minumum wage laws. Increasing the federal minimum wage to $10.50 per hour with local COLA would be a good first step. Small businesses would receive refundable tax credits to assist them. Very large employers would have a $13.00 federal minimum wage and pay a federal tax surcharge based on number of employeess who received food stamps, medicaid or other federal or state income based assistance over the past five years. Surcharge would increase 150% for each previous year large company had percentage net profits above 3.5% per year.
4
Great! Juxtaposed to an article about how China is using its commercial success -- success resulting from low labor costs -- to gain real super power status, project its national interests and secure natural resources for the future, here clueless US politicians want to raise the wage for unskilled labor. The Progressives amaze me with their ability to buy votes with other people's money, while saddling us with nonsense that makes the US non-competitive in the world economy.
Wages and conditions of employment should be determined privately by employers in response to market forces; not by politicians seeking votes and patronage. If you doubt that, look at our failing public schools.
Wages and conditions of employment should be determined privately by employers in response to market forces; not by politicians seeking votes and patronage. If you doubt that, look at our failing public schools.
8
And if we live in a dickensenian society where people are desperstely poor, including children, who cares, right?
7
"Wages and conditions of employment should be determined privately by employers in response to market forces
----------------------------
Do you not know US economic history?
What you suggest caused so many deaths in this country's modern history laws were enacted to mitigate or prevent the abuse and corruption that goes hand-in-hand with "Wages and conditions of employment should be determined privately by employers."
As for China and its low cost of labor - is that really what you aspire to? A communist nation with most of its population relegated to low pay? Seems odd, given the right wing's current saber-rattling over normalized relations with Cuba.
If you righties want to be taken seriously, better offer up proof of your willingness to abide by the very standards you uphold for the rest of us. If employer corruption and abuse is good enough for the rest of us, it should be good enough for you, too.
----------------------------
Do you not know US economic history?
What you suggest caused so many deaths in this country's modern history laws were enacted to mitigate or prevent the abuse and corruption that goes hand-in-hand with "Wages and conditions of employment should be determined privately by employers."
As for China and its low cost of labor - is that really what you aspire to? A communist nation with most of its population relegated to low pay? Seems odd, given the right wing's current saber-rattling over normalized relations with Cuba.
If you righties want to be taken seriously, better offer up proof of your willingness to abide by the very standards you uphold for the rest of us. If employer corruption and abuse is good enough for the rest of us, it should be good enough for you, too.
3
Other people's money? Right now everyone else is paying to subsidize the low wages these corporations are paying. that is other people's money.
I would prefer them to use their own money to pay their employees. Market forcer, which you prefer, clearly have allowed businesses to pay wages that are below living wages, because people are desperate to work. You
I would prefer them to use their own money to pay their employees. Market forcer, which you prefer, clearly have allowed businesses to pay wages that are below living wages, because people are desperate to work. You
2
Enough with the bah-humbug grumbling by corporate and business-owning Scrooges who whine incessantly over government interference where wages are concerned.
I pay the tax loopholes you help yourselves to, without which you couldn't stay in the market or fatten your own wallets. Talk about government interference; if those unearned and undeserved handouts, freebies, and free lunches went away, you'd never stop shrieking. Takers, the lot of you.
As such, you owe it to me to pay a livable, inflation-bearing wage to the wage earner who, unlike you, will put it right back into the economy. You aren't owed just because you decide to open up shop, particularly when you try to romance me to spend money with you only to shortchange me by hiring your workers at seven dollars per hour. Yeah, that's an incentive to work hard.
Do right by your tax loopholes paid for by the rest of us: pay a livable wage.
And please, stop the lies about half the country not paying taxes. The meme is old, sad, weak, and patently false.
I pay the tax loopholes you help yourselves to, without which you couldn't stay in the market or fatten your own wallets. Talk about government interference; if those unearned and undeserved handouts, freebies, and free lunches went away, you'd never stop shrieking. Takers, the lot of you.
As such, you owe it to me to pay a livable, inflation-bearing wage to the wage earner who, unlike you, will put it right back into the economy. You aren't owed just because you decide to open up shop, particularly when you try to romance me to spend money with you only to shortchange me by hiring your workers at seven dollars per hour. Yeah, that's an incentive to work hard.
Do right by your tax loopholes paid for by the rest of us: pay a livable wage.
And please, stop the lies about half the country not paying taxes. The meme is old, sad, weak, and patently false.
51
You may not like it, but it's not false.
1
As the situation in New York attests, these business owners have been effectively been getting tax subsidies for their employee costs for years, adding to their own profits. Larger businesses have done precisely the same thing, as well as seeking more direct tax subsidies and hiring illegal workers who are easily exploited.
It is past time for this to stop. Income inequality in the United States reflects the corporate mindset that every dollar in profit belongs by right to the executive class, and therefore ever dollar diverted to taxes, to employees or to improve product quality is a dollar that has been wrenched from the grip of the plutocracy. If the corporatists don't like raising the minimum wage, change the law to limit C-level compensation to a set multiple of the lowest third of their workers, so that a rising tide does indeed lift all boats.
Mr. Jones says that his fellow restauranteurs will be "desperate". No, Mr. Jones. "Desperate" is reserved for people trying to raise a family on $7.29 an hour. "Desperate" is city and state budgets that are straining under the weight of making up in public money for the refusal of your buddies to pay a living wage.
It is past time for this to stop. Income inequality in the United States reflects the corporate mindset that every dollar in profit belongs by right to the executive class, and therefore ever dollar diverted to taxes, to employees or to improve product quality is a dollar that has been wrenched from the grip of the plutocracy. If the corporatists don't like raising the minimum wage, change the law to limit C-level compensation to a set multiple of the lowest third of their workers, so that a rising tide does indeed lift all boats.
Mr. Jones says that his fellow restauranteurs will be "desperate". No, Mr. Jones. "Desperate" is reserved for people trying to raise a family on $7.29 an hour. "Desperate" is city and state budgets that are straining under the weight of making up in public money for the refusal of your buddies to pay a living wage.
31
"Desperate" is reserved for people trying to raise a family on $7.29 an hour.
Anybody making only $7.29 an hour should not be trying to raise a family.
Anybody making only $7.29 an hour should not be trying to raise a family.
1
Minimum wage should be a living wage.
It is not only just, but it also means the end of taxpayers subsidizing businesses who don't pay their workers enough to live on.
It is not only just, but it also means the end of taxpayers subsidizing businesses who don't pay their workers enough to live on.
40
Minimum wage is used as a maximum wage, but yes, it should be a livable minimum, which should somewhere around $24/hr.
Does the 17 year old working summers for extra spending cash deserve the same "living wage" as a someones dad or mom?
The real issue is convincing major employers to give people full time hours and benefits 401K, health insurance, vacation, sick days).
The guy working the McDonalds drive through window in the middle of the night should enjoy the same range of benefits as the people padding around corporate headquarters.
Unfortunately, the people who run McDonalds think that quarterly performance is directly tied to the latest ad campaign or the latest copycat drink on the menu.
Ill say it again, people want to feel good about their purchases, even something as small as a hamburger.
People want to know the cow was well treated and that the employees are well treated.
So, congrats on getting 15 dollars per hour and condolences on being limited to 15 to 20 hours per week.
The guy working the McDonalds drive through window in the middle of the night should enjoy the same range of benefits as the people padding around corporate headquarters.
Unfortunately, the people who run McDonalds think that quarterly performance is directly tied to the latest ad campaign or the latest copycat drink on the menu.
Ill say it again, people want to feel good about their purchases, even something as small as a hamburger.
People want to know the cow was well treated and that the employees are well treated.
So, congrats on getting 15 dollars per hour and condolences on being limited to 15 to 20 hours per week.
5
Why should they have the same benefits? What do they do that someone would want to keep them employed? That's what wages and benefits are for. They are earned. You don't get them just for showing up.
1
Mark -
First, calm down.
I said they should have the same RANGE of benefits, not the same benefits. They guy working the Fryolater isn't going to get a golden parachute if he gets fired. But he should have a chance to build wealth in a 401K. He should get a couple of weeks vacation. He should get an insurance plan so that an illness doesn't drive him into poverty.
[[That's what wages and benefits are for. They are earned. You don't get them just for showing up.]] Yes, you do get wages and benefits "just for showing up." You were offered a certain set of wages and benefits and you "show up" based on that offer. Companies like McDonalds are offering lower wages, part time hours and no benefits and you see the people who "show up" to claim that offer.
Forget about fast food. Let's pick another industry. Let's say I owned a dental practice. Would I offer potential dental assistants the lowest salary, part time hours, no benefits and no vacation? Would I send them home in the middle of a shift when there were no patients and have them come back when it got busy? Would I not offer them a regular schedule so they could plan their own lives and take care of their kids?
Companies can say they want dedicated, hard working employees. But if all companies are offering are low wages and part time work with split shifts, they won't get those workers.
Tell me, Mark, if you owned a McDonalds - or a dental practice - how would you treat the people who deal directly with your customers?
First, calm down.
I said they should have the same RANGE of benefits, not the same benefits. They guy working the Fryolater isn't going to get a golden parachute if he gets fired. But he should have a chance to build wealth in a 401K. He should get a couple of weeks vacation. He should get an insurance plan so that an illness doesn't drive him into poverty.
[[That's what wages and benefits are for. They are earned. You don't get them just for showing up.]] Yes, you do get wages and benefits "just for showing up." You were offered a certain set of wages and benefits and you "show up" based on that offer. Companies like McDonalds are offering lower wages, part time hours and no benefits and you see the people who "show up" to claim that offer.
Forget about fast food. Let's pick another industry. Let's say I owned a dental practice. Would I offer potential dental assistants the lowest salary, part time hours, no benefits and no vacation? Would I send them home in the middle of a shift when there were no patients and have them come back when it got busy? Would I not offer them a regular schedule so they could plan their own lives and take care of their kids?
Companies can say they want dedicated, hard working employees. But if all companies are offering are low wages and part time work with split shifts, they won't get those workers.
Tell me, Mark, if you owned a McDonalds - or a dental practice - how would you treat the people who deal directly with your customers?
1
It is obvious that the minimum wage is a Blue/Red issue. So, why do so many working people shoot themselves in the wallet and vote Red?
36
Pure racism, my friend. In the South, which is still fighting the Civil War, with or without the confederate flag, every attempt to improve society is viewed as welfare for black people. With the worst school systems in the industrialized world, the South can be assured that ignorance will be maintained for another generation.
3
In other words, why are exceptionally private issues like homosexuality and abortion always on the conservative agenda?
A lot of them think God wants them to vote Republican. Insane, I know, but I've talked to several of them, including those to whom I'm related.
They think Democrats are lazy slackers who cheat on their spouses and love "the gays" and minorities. They see Democrats as dirtly, lecherous and unseemly, and they see Republicans as hard-working, God-fearing and clean. Oh, yeah, and Obama is coming to take their guns and leave them defenseless when "those people" break into their houses (as they surely will any minute!)
Beyond that image, devoid of facts, they fear to tread.
They think Democrats are lazy slackers who cheat on their spouses and love "the gays" and minorities. They see Democrats as dirtly, lecherous and unseemly, and they see Republicans as hard-working, God-fearing and clean. Oh, yeah, and Obama is coming to take their guns and leave them defenseless when "those people" break into their houses (as they surely will any minute!)
Beyond that image, devoid of facts, they fear to tread.
Call me crazy, but $15/hr is still not to be considered a fair wage in my opinion...maybe it is for bargain basement level jobs, but try living in a city like New York at 15/hr...can't be done unless you have 4 room mates into your 30's.
7
Why is living in New York considered a right?
I would like to have oceanfront property in San Francisco. Can I claim to be a victim as well?
I would like to have oceanfront property in San Francisco. Can I claim to be a victim as well?
1
Because New York offers some of the best social services and cheap public transportation hat low income Americans don't have access to anywhere else. A socialist city that is in favor of the people, property values have nothing over principles. It is an American right that all poor people have access to this, rich people have the privilege to buy a home anywhere they want with all of the services and amenities they need. Why do they have a right to tear apart the last haven for low income Americans? When did oceanfront views become more important and valuable than helping people move up in this society?
Please spare me the sob stories business community! The real sob stories come from your workers, guess they don't really know their employees that well.
15
This is truly a boon to tech companies involved in the manufacturing of robotic devices that automate repetitive tasks. The demand for their products will increase, enabling the employment of more people within that industry. Those jobs are higher paying positions, which is good for cities and towns.
Hopefully that will impact on share price. It's a good time begin studying which company stock to invest in.
Meanwhile, my heart breaks for areas such as ours, where university students struggle to find employment in part-time positions in the restaurant and food service industry. We do not have here fast food employees that are using such jobs as career positions.
In Seattle, the wage increases are being phased in. This year's impact is quite small. We'll see what kind of mpact truly occurs down the road.
We have an economy that is changing to a tech-enriched environment. People were hurt in prior economic transitions -- agrarian to manurfactruring, for example. All of the people pictured here obviously have time available. A good use of such time is at one of the many online websites where the most basic of coding courses are easily accessed. Unlike years past, an education in a booming field is but a click away.
Hopefully that will impact on share price. It's a good time begin studying which company stock to invest in.
Meanwhile, my heart breaks for areas such as ours, where university students struggle to find employment in part-time positions in the restaurant and food service industry. We do not have here fast food employees that are using such jobs as career positions.
In Seattle, the wage increases are being phased in. This year's impact is quite small. We'll see what kind of mpact truly occurs down the road.
We have an economy that is changing to a tech-enriched environment. People were hurt in prior economic transitions -- agrarian to manurfactruring, for example. All of the people pictured here obviously have time available. A good use of such time is at one of the many online websites where the most basic of coding courses are easily accessed. Unlike years past, an education in a booming field is but a click away.
2
It's time the government stopped subsidizing the criminal "fast junk food"
industry by providing food stamps to all the slave workers they employ. The phony arguments by the hired shills for the industry that raising wages will reduce employment is garbage, just like their food. The only thing that will be reduced are the shareholder profits, tsk, tsk.
One thing that is clear is that no change can come from the Criminal Congress which is fully owned by the industry and will never vote for a decent minimum wage.
industry by providing food stamps to all the slave workers they employ. The phony arguments by the hired shills for the industry that raising wages will reduce employment is garbage, just like their food. The only thing that will be reduced are the shareholder profits, tsk, tsk.
One thing that is clear is that no change can come from the Criminal Congress which is fully owned by the industry and will never vote for a decent minimum wage.
58
It will not help the franchise owners to cut hours because if the demand stays at the same level they will need the same number of man, or woman, hours of work to operate, AND since the minimum wage is independent of whether the worker is full or part time, the costs to the business will be the same. As to the demand staying at the same level, people don't buy fast food because of its cost, which is far too high for what you get, but because they are to worn out to make food at home after working at perhaps two jobs. No, demand will remain the same because the fast food is convenient. People certainly don't buy the food because its healthy or nutritious. Shuck, it mostly doesn't even taste good.
3
Or replace certain jobs with automated machinery that never goes on break, calls in sick, demands overtime...
1
$31,200/year for a job at McD or BK that takes 1 day to learn?? Automation will replace the cashiers first, it's already started. Food preparation automation is on the way too. $15/hour across the board will be the final nail in the coffin of small businesses in NYC. My local bakery can't pay people $31k for handing out cheese danishes. He'll close up, putting his employees out of work, creating another vacant store. A great selling point for southern states to attract medium-sized NYC businesses with lower taxes and a business friendly environment to start with.
http://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-machines-burger-robot-2014-8
http://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-machines-burger-robot-2014-8
16
Fast food work is physically tiring work. I'd like to see some candy-arsed white-collar working making $95,000 a year try it sometime.
18
They might see it as good business practice (minimize costs!), but if you try to see the bigger picture, it has costs that are hidden from the books. People who don't make enough to live, turn to crime (what, did you expect them to just quietly sit and die since the market doesn't value their life enough to pay a living wage?). Which is paid by the rest of us (more police, more prisons, more fear, less social cohesion, rich have to hire bodyguards, etc.). So we end up subsidizing companies who profit from squeezing workers, but they spread the cost of the results to everyone else.
6
> $15/hour across the board will be the final nail in the coffin of small businesses in NYC.
Your verifiable data?
Also, there is more to fast food work than what you seem to know.
Put it this way: Would you clean a public restroom several times a day for minimum wage?
Would you be willing to work on your feet eight hours or more on slippery floors, and right next to vats of boiling hot oil, for minimum wage?
Would you be willing to subject yourself to the distinct possibility of armed robbery, night after night,for minimum wage?
Indeed, it appears your knowledge of fast food work - or any kind of work, for that matter - is relegated to handing change to a cashier in the drive-through window and assuming it is all one big giant piece of cake.
Besides, there have been periodic increases to the minimum wage since 1938, and none of your shrill fears have ever materialized.
Ever.
Your verifiable data?
Also, there is more to fast food work than what you seem to know.
Put it this way: Would you clean a public restroom several times a day for minimum wage?
Would you be willing to work on your feet eight hours or more on slippery floors, and right next to vats of boiling hot oil, for minimum wage?
Would you be willing to subject yourself to the distinct possibility of armed robbery, night after night,for minimum wage?
Indeed, it appears your knowledge of fast food work - or any kind of work, for that matter - is relegated to handing change to a cashier in the drive-through window and assuming it is all one big giant piece of cake.
Besides, there have been periodic increases to the minimum wage since 1938, and none of your shrill fears have ever materialized.
Ever.
2
A great experiment!
What are the limits to force and threats of violence no matter how meritorious the cause?
Will government fail again? Floors become ceilings. Will automation accelerate?
Remember Horn & Hardart?
What's the effect on morality? WW2 engendered corruption to such an extent once ubiquitous cafeterias that relied on customers honestly telling the cashier what they'd eaten disappeared.
Government never acknowledges nor admits it's failures, often unperceived, so we do not learn and keep repeating our errors.
Would there be anything wrong with government admitting its inability to raise the poor from poverty? After generations of failur why not leave people with the challenge of inventing their own paths to prosperity?
What are the limits to force and threats of violence no matter how meritorious the cause?
Will government fail again? Floors become ceilings. Will automation accelerate?
Remember Horn & Hardart?
What's the effect on morality? WW2 engendered corruption to such an extent once ubiquitous cafeterias that relied on customers honestly telling the cashier what they'd eaten disappeared.
Government never acknowledges nor admits it's failures, often unperceived, so we do not learn and keep repeating our errors.
Would there be anything wrong with government admitting its inability to raise the poor from poverty? After generations of failur why not leave people with the challenge of inventing their own paths to prosperity?
6
Whether or not fast food workers really deserve $15 an hour, I see no reason they deserve it more than any other worker in any other industry.
17
I must agree on this. The minimum wage should be across ALL employment, including waitstaff who are grossly underpaid because "they get tips". The minimum wage has been shoved under the carpet for decades and has been in need of an increase for too long. While Mr Sulz is doing a cover his tail comment by making the statement about how much people will be willing to pay for their burger, the truth is that the workforce won't be so quick to quit when a better paying job comes along thereby reducing the cost of training and employee turnover, resulting is possibly a higher gross profit margin. True the shock of going from the menial wage to $15 will be a shock to the system, employers like him will have to learn that the rest of the country deserves to eat as well, and NOT by being subsidized by welfare or other public assistance programs. I am an employer and have always attempted to pay my people a reasonable wage. It is the cost of doing business. And if the burger has to be $5, so be it. And if it can't sell at that price, then so be it as well.
And whatever minimum wage is set should be indexed annually to inflation. None of this set it and forget it mentality that we have gone through for far too long. Both sides, the Republicans in particular, have been resistant to passing any sort of minimum wage increase, because business is the big donor and won't support the ones who demand the increases.
And whatever minimum wage is set should be indexed annually to inflation. None of this set it and forget it mentality that we have gone through for far too long. Both sides, the Republicans in particular, have been resistant to passing any sort of minimum wage increase, because business is the big donor and won't support the ones who demand the increases.
8
Other industries will have to push up wages in response. If I'm working in retail making $11/hour, why should I continue to work retail when I can get $15/hour across the street at McDonalds?
Workers in other industries should form unions and engage in protest movements to increase their wages instead of sitting on their butts whinging jealously about people who work hard and engage in labor protests to pressure politicians.
I can't help thinking the fast-food restaurateur who says he's depressed about a higher minimum wage is full of crap. Maybe he's eaten too many of his own burgers, and his digestive tract is bottled up. Is there a limit to how much Americans will pay for a hamburger? Maybe, but we haven't reached it when you can get a burger in almost any town for $1. If we've reached any limit, it is the extent to which we will suffer oppressive government policies that subsidize the beef and corn industries (making us fat and diabetic), while denying hard-working people a living wage. The fast-food franchisee is being disingenuous when he suggests that he hasn't already invested in technology and sought to keep his labor costs to the bare minimum. If he wants to lift his depression, he should try a little compassion. It does wonders for the soul.
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What kind of burger can you get for $1.00?
This flows over into the restaurant business also. That $20 Kobe beef burger is served up someone in the kitchen making mininum wage or is a "food intern", and the server is rarely salaried.
1
As a taxpayer, I object to subsidizing all of these businesses which pay so little that their employees get food stamps, rent subsidies, and Medicaid. Time for all business to pay a living wage instead of dumping these costs onto the backs of the public. And I do not understand why major stores like Walmart get a pass, since they make much more than McDonald's in profits and don't franchise.
101
I can see the hesitation to increase a federal standard due to varying local economies - states should take the lead, but the federal govt should be reasonably not far behind. But seriously, $15? As a New Yorker you need to make at least $20/hr to be considered "working poor", especially with a family. I understand that $15 is a start, but it's no holy grail.
5
So people have a right to live in NY? My husband had to leave, he couldn't afford to live there any more, perhaps you have a plan where he can come back and get the wage he deserves and a great apartment, etc. I mean, if anyone deserves it, he does, right?
2
The average profit at Wal-Mart is 3%, much lower than your local florist for example.
1
1. A dysfunctional education system which employs a legion of teachers and administrators but which educates relatively few.
2. A dysfunctional housing market. Restrictive zoning and a laborious construction permitting process means that housing demand outstrips new supply resulting in unaffordable housing for lower income people.
3. Housing discrimination, especially through exclusionary zoning.
4. A dysfunctional mass transit system. For example, New York's mass transit system, by far the US' most comprehensive, has not kept up with changes in commuting patterns in the outer boroughs. The poor are especially underserved by mediocre transit systems since they are often forced to live in locations providing poor access to job opportunities.
5. A dysfunctional health care system.
6. Excess immigration. The flood of low-skilled immigrants into the US over the past generation has resulted in reduced opportunities for many poor people.
Raising the minimum wage to $15 is a band-aid to address a problem whose roots are far deeper and may well have unintended negative consequences for the poor. These could include: a reduction in opportunities for poorer entrepreneurs, reduction in opportunities for the less skilled and an encouragement of increased illegal immigration.