I DO NOT oppose abortion. I've never had one, so I know birth control works. I was however appalled by the videos and the attitude and demeanor of the abortion advocates.
56
I'd like to ask the anti abortion politicians what kind of legislation they have in mind. Will they outlaw abortion within the borders of the U.S,? Or will they outlaw abortion for U.S. citizens? I.E., a woman could not go to another country for an abortion without breaking the law. I have never heard this defined by the anti abortion crowd.
9
Money is fungible. No doubt that PP is getting money for body parts - they don't deny it and NYT editorial doesn't deny it - in fact they try to justify the sale by saying that the money received covers costs, not profit. If that was true, then we can assume that the costs are determinable and not some fictitious or changing number, so why is PP haggling over the price they would recieve?
44
I'm so glad I left the Republican party 25 years ago. They are an embarrassment to our country.
This campaign against women is outrageous.
This campaign against women is outrageous.
66
Those who are commenting about donating to PP are throwing away their money. it will just go to fund more illegal and unethical behavior. PP can only pull the wool over your eyes for so long and then the truth comes out. These videos do not show a pretty picture.
46
We needn't be at all surprised at this dirty dealings by the anti-abortionist folks. If only a few of them could stop watching Fox news long enough to read this article, we might have a few people from this group beginning to renounce the ways of their morally bankrupt brethren.
38
We , (through OUR government) are giving this group support (tax exempt status), to purvey it lies towards a publicly supported health care provider.
No, nothing broken here.
A county where such has become the norm can not survive.
No, nothing broken here.
A county where such has become the norm can not survive.
32
CMP released the full video within 30 seconds of the edited one. Just look at the publish dates. There's no reason why being anti-abortion discredits the videos. PP execs said everything in the full video with proper context, which NY Times is too offended to watch, apparently. You end up condemning and deceiving yourselves by not looking at the primary sources. Thinking people should look with nuance and integrity, but I've lost my hope in that a while ago.
51
Thank you The Center for Medical Progress for developing this very informative and disturbing video for all to see how corrupt and unethical Planned Parenthood really is. The left-leaning liberals will never see abortion for what it really is -- the taking of innocent human life. I have heard you have many more hours of video showing even more upsetting behavior demonstrated by PP. Please bring it on. Those of us who despise this abhorrent behavior want to see the demise of Planned Parenthood. They are cooking their own goose and soon will be a thing of the past. I can't wait for this evil to end.
50
"Campaign of Deception"? Once upon a time, that was called "investigative reporting."
62
If abortion is just the removing of "a bunch of cells in a blob," why is it that PP can sell little arms, legs, kidneys, lungs and hearts from the babies they just murdered? How can people not see that this is infanticide? The slippery slope of Roe v Wade has lead us to this horrific point in our society. Let's hear from the Democratic candidates for president on this! How can anyone support this practice and still claim to be a compassionate human being?
63
I've seen dozens of comments from readers claiming to be making (or increasing) donations to Planned Parenthood. Sounds like they shouldn't need taxpayer funds going forward. A win-win!
42
What difference, at this point, does it make?
7
When I first heard the sound-bite about Planned Parenthood selling fetal tissue, my reaction was, "how horrible!" And I was ready to back an investigation. But then I read more about the story in the NYT, and now I see the truth behind the sound-bite.
My lesson is that it's easy to get caught up in the headline, and jump to support the cause, if one is uninformed. I finally get conservative methods and politics!
My lesson is that it's easy to get caught up in the headline, and jump to support the cause, if one is uninformed. I finally get conservative methods and politics!
62
There is no real need for abortion, we have tubal ligation, the snip, diaphragms, morning after pill, the pill, the ''I forgot pill" and IUDs. All of these give you the abortion ''on demand'' without the controversial killing of a baby/foetus. There is no longer a valid reason for abortion on demand or no demand. Any nation that has the taxpayer paying for this now unnecessary procedure should begin to save itself a lot of money.
28
It is way past time to relaunch the public campaign for WOMEN'S RIGHT TO ABORTION! Let's stop tiptoeing around the issue. This is 2015! Most people now support gay marriage, $15/hr minimum wage, and taking the Confederate Battle flag down from goverment buildings. How can abortions, a safe medical procedure that was declared legal in 1973 be unfunded, expensive, difficult or completely unavailable to the majority of people who want them?
I hold responsible not only the Republican party but even more so the Democratic party politicians and their backers in the major women's and civil rights organizations and unions who have left the battlefield in defending a women's right to abortion.
Abortion is the fundatmental right of half of the population to decide what to do with our bodies and our lives. Late term abortions are excruciatingly difficult decisions for women who are trying to have a child but find either the fetus is not viable or their own health threatened by taking the pregnancy to term. It is nobody else's business. Modern safe and legal abortions are a huge advance for civilization!
It is time for a Million Family March on Washington to Defend a Women's Right to Abortion. Abortions should be fully funded, performed in all hospitals and surgical clinics - what other medical procedure is forced into isolated clinics? Planned Parenthood should be fully government funded and located in every city and town to expand their important services for working families.
I hold responsible not only the Republican party but even more so the Democratic party politicians and their backers in the major women's and civil rights organizations and unions who have left the battlefield in defending a women's right to abortion.
Abortion is the fundatmental right of half of the population to decide what to do with our bodies and our lives. Late term abortions are excruciatingly difficult decisions for women who are trying to have a child but find either the fetus is not viable or their own health threatened by taking the pregnancy to term. It is nobody else's business. Modern safe and legal abortions are a huge advance for civilization!
It is time for a Million Family March on Washington to Defend a Women's Right to Abortion. Abortions should be fully funded, performed in all hospitals and surgical clinics - what other medical procedure is forced into isolated clinics? Planned Parenthood should be fully government funded and located in every city and town to expand their important services for working families.
42
Left-leaning liberals should stop defending Planned Parenthood and start talking about defunding this dishonest and dreadful organization. Liberals keep saying the videos are fabricating the facts but they are showing how evil and crass Planned Parenthood really is. They have no regard for human life and think it is funny. Just wait until they close down each and every location and we will see who is laughing. It is just a matter of time before you will be putting your out-of-business signs in your windows. Hooray.
41
The hatred for Republicans trumps all reasonable discussion in these comments. There is nothing Planned Parenthood could do that would change any opinion among most commenting.
28
I was adopted. Don't abort! I'm glad I'm here and not distributed as parts for others.
48
You know that Rome is beginning to fall when the response to this video is:
"It's all legal!"
"We don't know when life begins, anyway!"
"They didn't sell it for profit!"
"It's a woman's right to choose!"
"It's just fetal tissue, not an actual living being!"
I'm all for legal and safe abortion, within limits. But when you have a doctor talking openly about crushing the head and lower body of a fetus that had, up until that point, a beating heart and functioning organs, and then the doctor explains how she removes those organs to be used for scientific research, maybe it's not a bad idea to stop clinging so desperately to political lines and have an actual discussion about morality rather than legality.
"It's all legal!"
"We don't know when life begins, anyway!"
"They didn't sell it for profit!"
"It's a woman's right to choose!"
"It's just fetal tissue, not an actual living being!"
I'm all for legal and safe abortion, within limits. But when you have a doctor talking openly about crushing the head and lower body of a fetus that had, up until that point, a beating heart and functioning organs, and then the doctor explains how she removes those organs to be used for scientific research, maybe it's not a bad idea to stop clinging so desperately to political lines and have an actual discussion about morality rather than legality.
54
"The full video of the lunch meeting, over two hours long and released by the Center for Medical Progress after complaints by Planned Parenthood"
This is straightforwardly false. The two videos were released simultaneously. No doubt a matter of indifference to the PP shills on the Times' editorial board.
This is straightforwardly false. The two videos were released simultaneously. No doubt a matter of indifference to the PP shills on the Times' editorial board.
46
Wow, what an incredibly distorted representation of the videos by the NYT. No mention of crushing parts, or "less crunchy" techniques, or haggling over prices, or joking about getting a Lamborghini, or changing the abortion procedure in order to obtain a better "specimen" (dead baby parts). But why should I be surprised.
60
I'm in the middle on the abortion issue. I consider late-term abortion immoral but recognize the rights of women are at issue too. Nevertheless, I've lost all respect for the GOP position on this issue ever since they became largely responsible for unnecessarily starting the endless blood-bath in Iraq-Syria. Aside from the millions of people killed and maimed in body & mind, the waste of a trillion tax dollars that could have saved lives here at home is disgusting. Lives have been & will be unnecessarily lost here at home because we unnecessarily took lives abroad. And this was largely (though not exclusively) the doing of the "PRO-LIFE" party!
29
It would be appropriate for the NYT to take a position on the legal and ethical issues raised by the videos but for it to punish the messenger and go on the attack to defend Planned Parenthood's questionable practices is really beneath the standards of responsible journalism. Most charitably it is advocacy, but at this point we don't even have all the facts? Why this knee- jerk reaction from The Times?
35
The cynicism displayed by several members of the Republican Clown Car trying to gain advantage in a presidential race is just unbelievable. Despicable. The liars who produced this video can at least claim they're acting from some sort of twisted morality. The mental pygmies who jump on this as a chance to pass misguided legislation are deserving of nothing but scorn.
17
Isn't it strange that so many Republicans are calling for "investigations" of Planned Parenthood. Why haven't people calling for investigations of of the Center For Medical Progress and Biomax Procurement Services? Apparently substantial funds were raised under false pretenses by Mr. Daleiden. The only reason his two firms exist at all is to discredit a legal medical provider. There appears to be evidence that Mr. Daleiden made false statements to his contributors and to the IRS. Why aren't there any calls for investigations into the activities of Daleiden and the Center for Medical Progress?
33
Does the video suggest that organs from late term abortions are more valuable than early ones? The later the abortion, the higher the price? I expect that first-term abortions would have zero yield for the organ harvesting market.
12
Taxpayer dollars should not be spent on Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood exposed the dirty practice of trafficking in body parts legal or not by there own words and I am writing my Congressmen and Women to support any effort to take my tax dollars away from this organization.
19
In my opinion, anyone with an anti-abortion point of view can take comfort in the understanding that the discarded children did not die in vain. The research to combat deadly diseases will save countless lives.
Please Congress, do not continue with this "proceeding".
Please Congress, do not continue with this "proceeding".
6
This editorial is bunk. Watch the video (including the entire 2 hours). If somehow it's not illegal, it most certainly is morally repugnant. I'm aghast at how many here blinded by their ideology think otherwise.
32
I've watched both the edited and un-edited versions, and I--an experienced journalist and editor--did not find the edited version deceptive (selective, yes, but not deceptive). I acknowledge that abortion is a complex issue and that both sides in the debate are often disingenuous in their arguments. But these videos present a callous and morally obtuse Planned Parenthood. The "optics" are just terrible, and these officials come across as grossly "insensitive" (to use two words favored by the commentariat). From Margaret Sanger and high- minded Pasadena matrons (Rockefeller Republicans) to jokes about Lamborghinis: Planned Parenthood's moral descent is shameful.
32
"Just say no" as the answer to unplanned pregnancy hasn't worked for thousands of years. Why do these people insist on destroying a dependable resource on sex education and contraception which has been shown to be much more effective?
14
RABBLE ROUSING No end is in sight for the ongoing civil war qua culture war between those who support a woman's right to choose and those who oppose it. Barney Franks was right when he said that the Republicans believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth. Since they cannot persuade people of the merits of their positions on a woman's right to choose, they resort to manipulation, deception and outright lies. The latest example of their intentionally distorted propaganda is the video purporting to show how Planned Parenthood is involved in selling fetal tissue. That claim is completely false: Planned Parenthood is permitted only to be reimbursed for storage costs. Fetal tissue is used for some of the most innovative and important research that may provide treatment of and relief from what are now untreatable conditions. Those who oppose a woman's right to choose are mixing religious doctrine with secular law, claiming that their position is sacrosanct. Most people have accepted the idea of organ donation after a person dies. If a fetus is, as some claim, human remains, they their disposition should be governed by the same laws as those that govern the rights of people who die at other times in their lives.
18
the great moral hypocrisy of the right is, most people want to have children...and then most people, especially young people do not have children because, even after they find their life partner, in this economy, with its dwindling middle class, there is no money to have children. If the racist right really wanted to encourage everyone to have a bunch of babies, then they would be out front on pro family policies, pushing for things like an increased minimum wage and expanded family leave. The waste of money that went into this nonsense trap and the huge contradiction they exhibit in fighting to keep Americans poor as they at the same time force women in low-income families to have children, that they then fight to keep in underfunded schools, shows how really really not bright these people are.
19
I have a problem with those that are so against women's right to chose that they seem to forget that before Roe vs wade women who made the mistake of getting pregnant and could not have the child had to depend on back ally non medical procedures. Planned Parenthood is trying to educate young women and help them avoid unwanted babies. Abortion is not the goal but better educated women will help reduce the need for abortions. Conservatives who want go back to the old days need to think about how bad it was. Do they really want to put a women in jail who have an abortion if it is illegal.
20
July 22, 2015
For the love of raising a child - the plan is for the biological parents, it's that simple. Sure diverse religious paths are respected by law and yet in our modern culture America is on the right track to give full leeway to the wishes of the parent and with respecting the writ civil. Fighting evil with evil is just stupid and the shows that we the educated class know what to do and who to read as given in today's editorial and its Times opus of articles over the many many years. Vigilance for sane parenthood and our world's population management.
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
For the love of raising a child - the plan is for the biological parents, it's that simple. Sure diverse religious paths are respected by law and yet in our modern culture America is on the right track to give full leeway to the wishes of the parent and with respecting the writ civil. Fighting evil with evil is just stupid and the shows that we the educated class know what to do and who to read as given in today's editorial and its Times opus of articles over the many many years. Vigilance for sane parenthood and our world's population management.
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
3
The Republicans simply will not leave women alone to get on with their lives and are intent on controlling their reproductive decisions at whatever cost to their health and well being. It makes me feel sick at heart and ashamed for a country which produces such intolerant and misogynist politicians. Please support Planned Parenthood any way you can, women's lives depend on it!
17
The editorial completely misses the point. It was the tone of the conversation and the cavalier references to body parts and procedures that was offensive.
25
On watching the video, my own attention was not focused on the issue of whether profit was involved or not. What struck me was the discussion of how people performing abortions moved the fetus around so that they could crush certain parts of it, in order to kill it...but to leave the "valuable" parts undamaged. That's what I found disgusting and inhumane. In addition Nucatola's whole demeanor while discussing this procedure and eating and drinking wine, was further reason for disgust. It is beyond me how someone can watch this video and not be angered and saddened. I accept that abortions are necessary. And I accept that the mother should decide. What is unacceptable to me is that the killing of the fetus is done in a way to deliberately yield up its organs. There is no Campaign of Deception, unless you count articles like this one in the Times.
27
To say government funds are not used for abortions at Planned Parenthood is disingenuous. Once received, money is fungible. It supports abortions by diverting funds for other services. Equally wrong is to say that the sale of fetal body parts is acceptable as long as there is little or no profit. It's simply barbaric.
24
I understand that many people, especially on the political right, have sincere and deeply held moral, ethical or religious objections to abortion. (Actually, many of us on the left have moral and ethical concerns as well, but simply believe it is a decision that must rest with the woman who will carry the child.) But if conservatives truly believe abortion should be illegal, then they should make that argument honestly and openly, and see if they can convince enough of their fellow citizens as to the moral truth of their position. The fact is most Republican legislators lack the guts to tackle the issue directly, so they continue to try to put into effect a de facto abortion ban, making it unavailable to women by attacking Planned Parenthood through thoroughly dishonest attacks such as this one, or by imposing outrageous and unnecessary requirements upon medical facilities that provide such services.
This entire stunt -- from the deceptively edit3ed video, to the right-wing media's promotion of it, to Republican legislators' calls to defund and investigate Planned Parenthood -- is taken right out of the James O'Keefe/ACORN playbook. That infamous stunt, and the current one against Planned Parenthood both stand as illustrations of the right's political amorality and its thoroughgoing contempt for honest democratic process!
This entire stunt -- from the deceptively edit3ed video, to the right-wing media's promotion of it, to Republican legislators' calls to defund and investigate Planned Parenthood -- is taken right out of the James O'Keefe/ACORN playbook. That infamous stunt, and the current one against Planned Parenthood both stand as illustrations of the right's political amorality and its thoroughgoing contempt for honest democratic process!
20
I usually have hopes that the younger generation coming of age now will be more tolerant and open to the diversity of our backgrounds and principles. So it is disappointing to see a young man--a kid really--like David Daleiden get involved in an issue about which he knows nothing, nothing at all. In addition, that he is resorting to deception to make his point underscores his lack of morality as well as wisdom. That white guys in the government--the GOP specifically--continue to assault women's rights with their own insensitivity and ignorance may be routine, but nonetheless, it's still demoralizing that these middle aged twits are in positions of power. Why don't they claim their ignorance of medicine as they do with science when it comes to issues concerning women's health?
16
Fundamentally what we're looking at is a grossly unethical act in the public forum. Anyone who condones this behavior is unfit to participate and should be castigated and shunned.That would free us from a significant portion of 1% and their dupes in the GOP.
However, on a practical level, Mark Thomason is right...what we have here is a tort ("civil wrong") for which legal action is appropriate. In the long run, failing to respond not only opens us further to civic rot but stands as a stark demonstration of "the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is that for good men to do nothing."
However, on a practical level, Mark Thomason is right...what we have here is a tort ("civil wrong") for which legal action is appropriate. In the long run, failing to respond not only opens us further to civic rot but stands as a stark demonstration of "the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is that for good men to do nothing."
3
The Catholic Church has banned contraception in poor countries, there's an epic over population in countries like the Philippines. The poor mothers have engaged the services of back alley abortions entirely due to lack of reasonable healthcare facilities like Planned Parenthood. The rich can easily buy contraceptives and the Church has no say on it but they would play the guilt trip on the poor and ignoring the unsustainable policy that they impose on them. These Conservative Republicans should pause and examine their blind faith in a religion that is contradicting what Christianity is supposed to be. They have no compassion and their twisted mindset is immoral. Just think outside the box and you will see a different point of view.
12
This Editorial completely misses the point and is deceptive in its own right. The main objection of the pro-life opposition is not the "revenue stream" for fetal tissue (as disgusting as that is); instead, it is what Brit Hume called the "stomach turning" sight of a senior Planned Parenthood official (a doctor) discussing the market for fetal body parts "in between bites of salad and sips of wine." This cavalier attitude towards human life would make ISIS proud.
As Mr. Hume powerfully goes on to say, "it laid bare the essentially brutal nature of abortion...This gruesome procedure shows the extent to which we as a people have been anesthetised by the estimated 55 million - 55 MILLION - abortions performed since the Supreme Court discovered a constitutional right to that procedure 42 years ago. Will we as a nation not someday come to look upon that decision and what it has done to us - not to mention the 55 million - with horror and regret? One can only hope we will." That is the point - the cavalier attitude with which the abortion industry regards - and talks about - taking so many millions of lives. The video is truly "stomach turning"!
Brit Hume's powerful commentary can be found at: http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2015/07/20/brit-hum...
As Mr. Hume powerfully goes on to say, "it laid bare the essentially brutal nature of abortion...This gruesome procedure shows the extent to which we as a people have been anesthetised by the estimated 55 million - 55 MILLION - abortions performed since the Supreme Court discovered a constitutional right to that procedure 42 years ago. Will we as a nation not someday come to look upon that decision and what it has done to us - not to mention the 55 million - with horror and regret? One can only hope we will." That is the point - the cavalier attitude with which the abortion industry regards - and talks about - taking so many millions of lives. The video is truly "stomach turning"!
Brit Hume's powerful commentary can be found at: http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2015/07/20/brit-hum...
31
Another side of the entire abortion debate is how men have no say in the matter. A friend got a call that an ex-girlfriend was pregnant and keeping the baby, putting him on the hook for 17% of his post-tax earnings until the child turns 18. This despite her assurances that she was on birth control. And I am sure there are many cases where the woman chooses to have an abortion but the man wants to have the baby.
I am a totally pro-choice male, but these issues are far too often unaddressed (not that I have any idea how they s/b addressed...).
I am a totally pro-choice male, but these issues are far too often unaddressed (not that I have any idea how they s/b addressed...).
13
The story here is not about the deceptive practice of The Center for Medical Progress. All whistleblowing require deception (which this paper often lauds without question - ranging from Edward Snowden's work, to the exposure Mitt Romney's "47%" comment, to the Human Society's videos of animal abuse, etc.). Neither is the issue whether or not Planned Parenthood profits from the sale of fetal tissue. The issue here is that there is an industrialized practice of harvesting human beings for their body parts. Gild it with whatever Orwellian language you choose, opt for distracting your readers by embedding this in the tired, polarized conflict between the Right and the Left, or cover this under the banner of "women's health." Clear it all away, and that's what it is. For a paper that has championed so many other laudable causes, you should recognize that this is of a piece with the many other ways in which we devalue, diminish and destroy life in this country - ranging from the brutality of our justice system which crushes inconvenient African-American lives, to the ways in which the elderly and infirm are increasingly discarded so that our health care system will not be unduly "burdened." Unless and until we embrace the inherent value of human life, we will always be complicit in crushing it for some greater goal. Simone Weil's comment about Trotsky applies: "He loved humanity, but he despised people." Shame on you for your complicity in this deathly narrative.
26
Who hates women so much that they undertake this elaborate
deception and then advertise their lies?
The world is not only heating up, it is becoming heavily overpopulated in relation to food production, so it is a kindness to let families plan reproduction,
and a bitter cruelty to dump children in the world to starve.
deception and then advertise their lies?
The world is not only heating up, it is becoming heavily overpopulated in relation to food production, so it is a kindness to let families plan reproduction,
and a bitter cruelty to dump children in the world to starve.
14
Stop this, NY Times and everyone else using weasel words to downplay this. This is moral insanity and you are all culpable.
19
Looks like this one hit a little too close to home...
12
As most Americans are on this issue I am Pro Choice but anti abortion. Pro Choice because I do no believe in Legislative remedies, please refer to the war on drugs. I am anti abortion for the obvious reasons. My question to the anti choice crowd is why are you not involved in actions that have been proven to prevent unwanted pregnancies like handing out free IUDs ? If your need is with Planned Parenthood, why are you not opening LEGITIMATE alternative clinics that provide the same services that they provide ?
11
I am pro-choice, but I'm sure I will still be attacked for saying what I have to say.
Planned Parenthood is indeed permitted to be compensated for the cost of delivering specimens. However, cost is a fixed amount, and what is clearly seen in the video released yesterday is a negotiation by Dr. Mary Gatter (Medical Director of PP Los Angeles).
“What would you expect for intact tissue?” asks the potential buyer.
“Why don’t you start by telling me what you’re used to paying?” Gatter replies. When pushed for a number, Gatter says, “Well, you know in negotiations the person who throws out the figure first is at a loss, right?"
How can any honest person read this and truly believe Gatter is only interested in covering her costs?
Additionally, going out to lunch, drinking wine, etc. suggests that this organization is accustomed to being wined and dined by potential buyers. It is disgusting, regardless of what else they say in the full video.
Put aside your partisanship. One can support a woman's right to choose without supporting Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood is indeed permitted to be compensated for the cost of delivering specimens. However, cost is a fixed amount, and what is clearly seen in the video released yesterday is a negotiation by Dr. Mary Gatter (Medical Director of PP Los Angeles).
“What would you expect for intact tissue?” asks the potential buyer.
“Why don’t you start by telling me what you’re used to paying?” Gatter replies. When pushed for a number, Gatter says, “Well, you know in negotiations the person who throws out the figure first is at a loss, right?"
How can any honest person read this and truly believe Gatter is only interested in covering her costs?
Additionally, going out to lunch, drinking wine, etc. suggests that this organization is accustomed to being wined and dined by potential buyers. It is disgusting, regardless of what else they say in the full video.
Put aside your partisanship. One can support a woman's right to choose without supporting Planned Parenthood.
19
It has become clear that the abortion issue is cynically exploited by both sides, and that it has acquired such a symbolic potency that no one -- and certainly not the New York Times editorial board -- can approach it with anything like objectivity.
The day that can happen probably lies a couple centuries in the future.
When that time comes, I am absolutely certain of one thing: Abortion will be seen by more enlightened generations as roughly as barbaric as the way we view human sacrifices. And the notion that protecting abortion rights was somehow central to women feeling in control of their bodies will be as perplexing to our descendants as the notion that cutting off captives' heads somehow secured a good corn crop seems to us.
The day that can happen probably lies a couple centuries in the future.
When that time comes, I am absolutely certain of one thing: Abortion will be seen by more enlightened generations as roughly as barbaric as the way we view human sacrifices. And the notion that protecting abortion rights was somehow central to women feeling in control of their bodies will be as perplexing to our descendants as the notion that cutting off captives' heads somehow secured a good corn crop seems to us.
15
The attacks on reproductive choice is how modern America tries to maintain the suppression of women. Yes, woman are no longer chattel and we now can vote, but our control in reproducing the next generation is challenged more and more stridently. Ever tighter restrictions show that the anti's think that what is happening in women's wombs erases what they know with their minds and feel in their hearts about the reality of their pregnancy. The anti-abortion agenda regards women as breeders first, last and foremost - no longer chattel, but definitely cattle.
15
From Dickenson D.
Dev World Bioeth. 2002 May;2(1):55-63.
PMID: 12872770
One effect of late capitalism--the commodification of practically everything--is to knock down the Chinese walls between the natural and productive realms, to use a Marxist framework. Women's labour in egg extraction and 'surrogate' motherhood might then be seen as what it is, labour which produces something of value. But this does not necessarily mean that women will benefit from the commodification of practically everything, in either North or South. In the newly developing biotechnologies involving stem cells, the reverse is more likely, particular given the the shortage in the North of the egg donors who will be increasingly necessary to therapeutic cloning. Although most of the ethical debate has focused on the status of the embryo, this is to define ethics with no reference to global or gender justice. There has been little or no debate about possible exploitation of women, particularly of ovum donors from the South.....
.....although the new Medical Research Council guidelines make a good deal of the 'gift relationship', what they are actually about is commodification. If donors believe they are demonstrating altruism, but biotechnology firms and researchers use the discourse of commodity and profit, we have not 'incomplete commodification' but complete commodification with a plausibly human face.
Dev World Bioeth. 2002 May;2(1):55-63.
PMID: 12872770
One effect of late capitalism--the commodification of practically everything--is to knock down the Chinese walls between the natural and productive realms, to use a Marxist framework. Women's labour in egg extraction and 'surrogate' motherhood might then be seen as what it is, labour which produces something of value. But this does not necessarily mean that women will benefit from the commodification of practically everything, in either North or South. In the newly developing biotechnologies involving stem cells, the reverse is more likely, particular given the the shortage in the North of the egg donors who will be increasingly necessary to therapeutic cloning. Although most of the ethical debate has focused on the status of the embryo, this is to define ethics with no reference to global or gender justice. There has been little or no debate about possible exploitation of women, particularly of ovum donors from the South.....
.....although the new Medical Research Council guidelines make a good deal of the 'gift relationship', what they are actually about is commodification. If donors believe they are demonstrating altruism, but biotechnology firms and researchers use the discourse of commodity and profit, we have not 'incomplete commodification' but complete commodification with a plausibly human face.
1
Abortion is "might makes right". The aborting mother uses her might, her power, to deny what is truly right: that her child deserves a life, if not with her, than someone else.
Far too many regard the remains of these children as just another opportunity to recycle a resource. Human fetal tissue is used in developing medicines, vaccines, and cosmeceuticals and in research. It smacks of child sacrifice for the benefit of the ill and aged and it profits the companies trafficking in these products. It's more "might makes right". There is no one more vulnerable, defenseless, and voiceless than an unborn child.
Far too many regard the remains of these children as just another opportunity to recycle a resource. Human fetal tissue is used in developing medicines, vaccines, and cosmeceuticals and in research. It smacks of child sacrifice for the benefit of the ill and aged and it profits the companies trafficking in these products. It's more "might makes right". There is no one more vulnerable, defenseless, and voiceless than an unborn child.
19
People will see what they want to see in these types of things. On one side: cold, calculated murder and sale of fetal tissue. On the other: a lawful cost-covering mechanism to enable planned parenthood's mission statement.
The reality is a bit more objective, and even the harshest examples dissonance to our personal values can predecess predicate changes to the way the world turns... unrelenting pitchforks and unquestioning defense does us absolutely no good.
While this woman wasn't breaking the law, she most definitely was treading in dubious territory. This intersection of morals and mandates should rightfully give us pause, take us a step back, and give us an opportunity to look at the our current state of affairs in a full length mirror.
You may not like what you see.
The reality is a bit more objective, and even the harshest examples dissonance to our personal values can predecess predicate changes to the way the world turns... unrelenting pitchforks and unquestioning defense does us absolutely no good.
While this woman wasn't breaking the law, she most definitely was treading in dubious territory. This intersection of morals and mandates should rightfully give us pause, take us a step back, and give us an opportunity to look at the our current state of affairs in a full length mirror.
You may not like what you see.
11
I'm disappointed in the coverage by the New York Times on the issue of the Planned Parenthood videos. I would describe myself as independent, with a liberal leaning. As a young woman I generally support a woman's right to choose, but I find the videos (full) deeply disturbing. The language is softened but still refers callously to the dismemberment of fetuses, and it's hard to deny that there is a concern for profit even if it wrapped up in political correctness. Given the socio-economic situation and vulnerability of many women who more often have an abortion I doubt very much that the full implications of these studies are discussed with them. These videos should at least give us pause about what has become a secretive market. It's a shame that NTY coverage has largely focused on the Center for Medical Progress (as deceptive as they were in procuring the videos) without really studying the issue.
57
I'm so glad the New York Times has an editorial on this smear job. Fetal tissue donation is a generous and helpful action on the part of the women involved. Important research is done as the editorial has noted, with major medical discoveries made as a consequence. So many people suffering from major diseases will be helped in the future.
False accusations like this along with lies about the science and medical issues involving women's reproductive systems are all about irrational hatred. Planned Parenthood helps millions of women with their healthcare, cancer screenings, and, in rare instances, with abortions.
War on women and misogyny. Politicians who buy into these lies care nothing about women, health, or the right of women to make decisions about their own bodies.
False accusations like this along with lies about the science and medical issues involving women's reproductive systems are all about irrational hatred. Planned Parenthood helps millions of women with their healthcare, cancer screenings, and, in rare instances, with abortions.
War on women and misogyny. Politicians who buy into these lies care nothing about women, health, or the right of women to make decisions about their own bodies.
110
There's a bunch of things to be disturbed about here. One, why does everything have to be political? People of all political persuasions need medical care, and Planned Parenthood has provided medical services for women's health and contraception for a long time. Two, I find it really disturbing that members of Congress knew about this video before it was released. Who is funding this tax exempt group? Three, if the pro life group put as much energy into supporting contraceptive services, women's health, and caring for children after birth as they put into the abortion issue, I would find them more credible. Finally, it is pretty disturbing to see a Planned Parenthood doctor on tape, drinking wine, and having this conversation. I see the comments from people in the medical field that say this conversation does not shock them. But not everybody is in the medical field. So to get back to basics, rather than having this continuing battle, can everyone agree that the emphasis should be on contraception and try to make the abortion option safe, legal and rare.
11
Interestingly the pompous reporter tries to deflect logic and the immorality of killing babies by asserting there is scientific reasons for using fetal tissue. That is pure bunk! The only "political" aspect of all of this is what Ben Carson, who is a pediatric neurosurgeon unlike these moronic commentators, and stated the claim of such use is spurious, at best. The left (uuhumm New Yorkers) including this stain on humanity (Planned Parenthood) want abortions, any time, anywhere and at taxpayer cost. When I saw an ultrasound at eight weeks of my daughter, the doctor did not call it a fetus, but called it a baby. I was very poor at that time, and could have succumbed to the banality of abortionists to make "my life easier" and thank God, yes I said it, I stayed with it and will watch my daughter graduate form High School next year. I too was a "liberal" from the '70's and was entirely self-centered, which led to two abortions. I will never forgive myself for killing those babies and if God has some mercy, I will see them again.
14
In my opinion the undeniably disturbing nature of these videos relates not to abortion per se, but to organ procurement under a very specific set of circumstances.
The ethical and legal basis for abortion is the woman's right to choose - That is it, nothing more, nothing less and this is enshrined in Roe v Wade.
When you start adding a second dimension to the procedure (the first dimension is the termination of an unwanted pregnancy) by procuring intact body parts then it becomes something else.
If the 17 week intact foetus (with head, face, lung, heart, liver cited in the first video) had been developed in a lab only for the scientist to crush it before retrieving the intact organs for research, I think you will agree with me there would be outrage.
What is different about abortion to the lab scenario outlined above is that it is underpinned by the ethical proposition that women have the right to choose (people are entitled to agree or disagree with the proposition).
When we have doctors undermining that proposition by procuring intact body parts using an ultra sound to reference the heart beat so as to crush the foetus while not crushing the organs this not only raises a set of ethical questions but undermines the very basis on which abortion is presently predicated.
At this point I would suggest the procedure becomes something more than the termination of an unwanted pregnancy.
Last word: Watch the videos and make up your own mind.
The ethical and legal basis for abortion is the woman's right to choose - That is it, nothing more, nothing less and this is enshrined in Roe v Wade.
When you start adding a second dimension to the procedure (the first dimension is the termination of an unwanted pregnancy) by procuring intact body parts then it becomes something else.
If the 17 week intact foetus (with head, face, lung, heart, liver cited in the first video) had been developed in a lab only for the scientist to crush it before retrieving the intact organs for research, I think you will agree with me there would be outrage.
What is different about abortion to the lab scenario outlined above is that it is underpinned by the ethical proposition that women have the right to choose (people are entitled to agree or disagree with the proposition).
When we have doctors undermining that proposition by procuring intact body parts using an ultra sound to reference the heart beat so as to crush the foetus while not crushing the organs this not only raises a set of ethical questions but undermines the very basis on which abortion is presently predicated.
At this point I would suggest the procedure becomes something more than the termination of an unwanted pregnancy.
Last word: Watch the videos and make up your own mind.
10
If you bother to read my comment, I urge you to read it out of context.
Read this as if you are new to the planet and have a blank slate of knowledge and opinion surrounding this topic.
We are talking about the transfer, and alleged selling, of infant human body parts.
The debate that exists here is when it is okay to end another person's life, and whether or not an organization that facilitates this action should be allowed to continue.
"Where is the money going? Who is profiting from this?" We need to realize just how sick it is that someone even is profiting from this, regardless of who it is.
Read this as if you are new to the planet and have a blank slate of knowledge and opinion surrounding this topic.
We are talking about the transfer, and alleged selling, of infant human body parts.
The debate that exists here is when it is okay to end another person's life, and whether or not an organization that facilitates this action should be allowed to continue.
"Where is the money going? Who is profiting from this?" We need to realize just how sick it is that someone even is profiting from this, regardless of who it is.
13
Just remember on election day ladies, it isn't your body and your decision, it's the GOP's!
17
Libel: a defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures and that is (and here's where the Center for Medical Progress should pay attention) defamatory or that MALICIOUSLY OR DAMAGINGLY MISREPRESENTS.
Just speculating, but I doubt that creating a legal entity, under the false pretense of being a medical charity, in order to gain access to Planned Parenthood and then publishing a deceptively edited video designed to give viewers the impression that Planned Parenthood was profiting from the illegal sale of fetal tissue is a legitimate investigative technique. If the Center for Medical Progress isn't careful, Planned Parenthood may find all the funding it needs by suing them until there's nothing left.
Just speculating, but I doubt that creating a legal entity, under the false pretense of being a medical charity, in order to gain access to Planned Parenthood and then publishing a deceptively edited video designed to give viewers the impression that Planned Parenthood was profiting from the illegal sale of fetal tissue is a legitimate investigative technique. If the Center for Medical Progress isn't careful, Planned Parenthood may find all the funding it needs by suing them until there's nothing left.
16
Best way to respond to underhanded tactics of opponents of women's right to choose? Contribute generously to Planned Parenthood
51
Planned Parenthood is a critical organization that helps millions of women every year keep control of their bodies and their futures. The best way to fight this smear campaign is to donate to the organization today. If they raise millions of dollars every time a Republican tells another lie about them, maybe Congress will get the message.
40
Translated, planned parenthood plays a critical role in helping women kill their unborn babies. The rest of what they do could easily be handled by legitimate providers whose main business is not dismembering unborn children,
4
Any person, any group can lie through its teeth while "following all applicable laws." Ask The Donald about that. In this case, the lies start at the very grassroots with the misleading organization name, "Center for Medical Progress."
In aborting scientific research on potentially life-saving medical advancement, this group should more accurately label itself the "Center for Medical Regression."
www.endthemadnessnow.org
In aborting scientific research on potentially life-saving medical advancement, this group should more accurately label itself the "Center for Medical Regression."
www.endthemadnessnow.org
25
This NYT editorial is a fraud as Planned Parenthood is committing several federal felonies in their abortions. They are selling body parts for money and it is criminal via Title 18 USC 371 conspiracy to defraud the federal government. Planned Parent admitted they sell, give, get reimbursed or whatever you wish to call it, fetus organs to third parties who then sell for profit. That automatically makes them part of the criminal conspiracy. They also are violating federal law by specificly and intentionaly altering their practices for the purpose of harvesting, or better harvesting, fetus organs/parts. That is a federal crime and also a gross medical ethics violation. It is very likely they are violating various state laws as in the abortion area state laws can be more restrictive. Shame on you NYT for being so shallow in your research. This is nothing but humans killing humans. Fetuses can feel pain and have their senses at 20 weeks, at 17 weeks, at 12 weeks. By it self it is inhuman regardless of the law.
35
Did you read the article or are you just repeating a talking point? The fetal parts were NOT sold for profit.
5
You do realize that most companies that donate excess things(food, computers, ect.) get tax credits to compensate them for their charitable efforts. Otherwise it would be cheaper to just throw these things away. Planned parenthood unfortunately doesn't get tax credits for this, so the recipients need to pay for the labor involved in processing an order as well as the shipping. That's what the money goes for.
2
If the so-called Center for Medical Progress were to use their funding for education and contraception services, there would be far fewer abortions performed in this country. But no doubt the ends justify the means, as they lie and slander to promote their ultra-religious agenda.
20
"If the so-called Center for Medical Progress were to use their funding for education and contraception services, there would be far fewer abortions performed in this country. "
Well, if they get PP shut down likely fewer abortions will be performed as well.
Well, if they get PP shut down likely fewer abortions will be performed as well.
2
The real irony is that these same hypocrites that are so against abortion are also against birth control services that would avoid the need for abortions. Planned Parenthood is a leading provider of affordable birth control.
The other interesting issue would be to investigate the people who "infiltrated" Planned parenthood and took illegal pictures, etc. That probably does warrant an investigation by the Justice Department and potential prosecution. Perhaps hate crimes are even involved.
The other interesting issue would be to investigate the people who "infiltrated" Planned parenthood and took illegal pictures, etc. That probably does warrant an investigation by the Justice Department and potential prosecution. Perhaps hate crimes are even involved.
19
"The real irony is that these same hypocrites that are so against abortion are also against birth control services that would avoid the need for abortions."
Those "hypocrites" might be against federal funding for these birth control centers. Such centers should be handled at the state and local level. How much of your own money would you like to contribute to maintain one of those centers?
Those "hypocrites" might be against federal funding for these birth control centers. Such centers should be handled at the state and local level. How much of your own money would you like to contribute to maintain one of those centers?
2
most pro-life people are absolutely NOT against birth control. Many of us do, however, question why people who want "the government out of the bedroom" also want Uncle Sam to pay for their birth control.
4
"The real irony is that these same hypocrites that are so against abortion are also against birth control services that would avoid the need for abortions. "
That's a silly comment. Do you believe that women become spontaneously pregnant? It is like saying that people who refuse to supply free taxi service support drinking and driving. Your argument is a non sequitur.
That's a silly comment. Do you believe that women become spontaneously pregnant? It is like saying that people who refuse to supply free taxi service support drinking and driving. Your argument is a non sequitur.
4
So it's ok to " crunch" unborn babies to preserve more valuable parts? The simple fact that these living creatures have body part of value defines that they are living. Or do you want us to believe that they are lifeless blobs of protoplasm. A mother gets busted if she leaves her six month old child to bake in a parked car. How is this fair when a year earlier she had the right to have her baby selectively crunched and body parts marketed? Today in America an untold number of prospective parents suffer in silence for destroying a life they will never know. This is the real unspoken tragedy, the guilt and haunting that never goes away.
27
There was once a time when good, well-meaning Americans considered certain individuals to be less than fully human. And once you dehumanize something into a clump of cells, it makes it easier to kill or destroy, whether that includes African Americans, terrorists in Gitmo, or the unborn.
24
And yet these same pathetic members of the GOP, who care so much about life, refuse to do anything about the NRA and the horrors casued by guns in this country. I did not see a GOP led congessional investigation after Newtown, Aurora, Chattanooga, etc. Maybe someone should reveal the crimw scene photos of the poor souls who died, and maybe something would happen. These clowns are more dangerous that any lone-wolf attack.
35
I blame the public education system for producing someone who thinks your "argument" makes sense.
3
Getting rid of Planned Parenthood is the aim of the religious right through their Republican co-conspirators. The edited video is meant to inflame, but the core issue for the religious right isn't about fetal tissue being provided for research, it is about denying health care services for women. The religious right isn't just anti-abortion, it is also anti-birth control which is absolutely illogical, if you are anti-abortion. As shown in Colorado, when birth control is made available the number of abortions is reduced. So to reiterate, it is about denying women control over their own bodies.
I will repeat what I have stated before: Why would any woman, any poor person, any person of color, any gay person, any person on Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, or anyone still in the Middle Class in this country vote for a Republican? Getting rid of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and the rollback of the Affordable Health Care Act as well as overturning Roe vs Wade, are all on the Republican agenda as well as trying to subvert the legality of same sex marriage. 2016 is almost here and the election will be one of the most important ones in this country's history. Do we progress or do we return to the 1950's?
I will repeat what I have stated before: Why would any woman, any poor person, any person of color, any gay person, any person on Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, or anyone still in the Middle Class in this country vote for a Republican? Getting rid of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and the rollback of the Affordable Health Care Act as well as overturning Roe vs Wade, are all on the Republican agenda as well as trying to subvert the legality of same sex marriage. 2016 is almost here and the election will be one of the most important ones in this country's history. Do we progress or do we return to the 1950's?
25
"Why would any woman, any poor person, any person of color, any gay person, any person on Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, or anyone still in the Middle Class in this country vote for a Republican?"
Perhaps they realize that the Democratic Party is all about group-identity politics and nothing else. Maybe they realize the Democratic Party's aim is to keep them dependent by convincing them that all their issues can only be solved by the beneficent hand of the federal government. Maybe they realize that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are unsustainable in their current form.
Perhaps they realize that the Democratic Party is all about group-identity politics and nothing else. Maybe they realize the Democratic Party's aim is to keep them dependent by convincing them that all their issues can only be solved by the beneficent hand of the federal government. Maybe they realize that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are unsustainable in their current form.
3
Sorry but this is indefensible. People keep talking about how we "shouldn't force ourselves on others and to stay out of a woman's body." Those are opinions. You know what is truly FORCED on me? Having to pay taxes which fund this disgusting organization. Also, abortion lovers claim that these babies are tissue. What exactly is a heart, arm and liver part of? A human body which means it's a life. Remember Gosnell?
27
Concerned "girl"? I guess you have enough money to afford a private physician to obtain your contraceptives, get your annual PAP smear or mammogram, and other services, including prenatal care. If you took your head out of the sand you'd see that abortions are a very small part of what Planned Parenthood does (and are not always performed for elective reasons), and they are not paid for with your tax dollars. Millions of women need the services of Planned Parenthood because the same yahoos who want to defund this organization are also trying to prevent us from having access to affordable healthcare from private providers. The hypocrisy is disgraceful.
1
This is a red herring to distract the American electorate, during a run up to a Presidential election!
Abortion is the law of the land and SCOTUS has clearly delineated the state's interest from the privacy interest, along a carefully constructed if somewhat imprecise balancing test. If the abortions performed by Planned Parenthood were legal under the SCOTUS test, then disposition of the ensuing tissue should be governed by laws/rules unrelated to the abortion itself i.e., laws about the sale of human tissue and medical ethics governing the practice by healthcare providers.
This wild goose chase once again diverts the fickle imagination of the American public from the real issues at stake in this Country ... how to actually grow the economy without resorting to slight of hand financial tricks, and to then equitably balance the rewards of that growth for all the participants - not just the elite 0.01% at the top! Let's hear a politician (Democrat, Republican, whatever) discuss the real issues.
Abortion is the law of the land and SCOTUS has clearly delineated the state's interest from the privacy interest, along a carefully constructed if somewhat imprecise balancing test. If the abortions performed by Planned Parenthood were legal under the SCOTUS test, then disposition of the ensuing tissue should be governed by laws/rules unrelated to the abortion itself i.e., laws about the sale of human tissue and medical ethics governing the practice by healthcare providers.
This wild goose chase once again diverts the fickle imagination of the American public from the real issues at stake in this Country ... how to actually grow the economy without resorting to slight of hand financial tricks, and to then equitably balance the rewards of that growth for all the participants - not just the elite 0.01% at the top! Let's hear a politician (Democrat, Republican, whatever) discuss the real issues.
77
If the discussion was about the treatment of animals or animal fetuses, dogs, cats, bird's eggs, et al the outrage would be overwhelming and the practitioners of these practices could face arrest and jail sentences and would if the animal, bird or insect was a "protected" species. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
24
You know that old movie where "every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings"? Well, in my world, every time one more Male Without Ovaries (MWO) is presumptuous enough to pass judgement on women's private reproductive decisions, I mail another check off to Planned Parenthood! Ka-ching!!
This column rightly pointed out that most of what PPs do are crucial preventive health services. PP found a close family member's breast cancer in a routine screening several years ago, and saved her life.
But I wish this column had also wrapped in the excellent recent longitudinal study by Rocca et al. which is available via journals.plos.org. I was disturbed to learn that more than one out of three women said their decision to abort a pregnancy was because they could not afford a child. That's the real crime. I would like to hear the right wing explain why they are pro-life enough to interfere with my civil rights, but not pro-life enough to give low-wage women in this country enough earning power to support a family.
This column rightly pointed out that most of what PPs do are crucial preventive health services. PP found a close family member's breast cancer in a routine screening several years ago, and saved her life.
But I wish this column had also wrapped in the excellent recent longitudinal study by Rocca et al. which is available via journals.plos.org. I was disturbed to learn that more than one out of three women said their decision to abort a pregnancy was because they could not afford a child. That's the real crime. I would like to hear the right wing explain why they are pro-life enough to interfere with my civil rights, but not pro-life enough to give low-wage women in this country enough earning power to support a family.
30
There is nothing "dishonest" about the video. All of the physicians clearly understood the issues and clearly violated ethics, if not the law.
The technique of using video is just as valid when used by pro-life people as when it is used by progressives.
If anything, the "pro-choice" camp should embrace honesty and disclosure so people can make informed decisions.
Once again, the Editors are using a double-standard and distortion to divert people from the truth. In this case, the truth is that physicians at planned parenthood view the unborn as a source of income, either from termination or from organ trafficking.
The technique of using video is just as valid when used by pro-life people as when it is used by progressives.
If anything, the "pro-choice" camp should embrace honesty and disclosure so people can make informed decisions.
Once again, the Editors are using a double-standard and distortion to divert people from the truth. In this case, the truth is that physicians at planned parenthood view the unborn as a source of income, either from termination or from organ trafficking.
24
Almost a century ago, Margaret Sanger and her sister opened a birth control clinic in New York. They were arrested and convicted for distributing "obscene materials."
Ten decades later, the smear campaign against any woman who would control her own body, determine her own future and the well being of her own family, is still being lied about and smeared.
Let's put an end to this slander and oppression of women in the 21st century: please do not vote for any candidate who opposes the good work of Planned Parenthood. Even if you consider yourself anti-abortion, remember that Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions than Operation Rescue could dream of in their wildest fantasies of patriarchal control, by providing birth control and preventing untenable pregnancies, and by saving women's lives.
Ten decades later, the smear campaign against any woman who would control her own body, determine her own future and the well being of her own family, is still being lied about and smeared.
Let's put an end to this slander and oppression of women in the 21st century: please do not vote for any candidate who opposes the good work of Planned Parenthood. Even if you consider yourself anti-abortion, remember that Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions than Operation Rescue could dream of in their wildest fantasies of patriarchal control, by providing birth control and preventing untenable pregnancies, and by saving women's lives.
29
So, we are not to question the practices of Planned Parenthood as it pursues it's noble mission. The matter of unrestricted, unlimited elective abortions right up to the moment of birth has an urgency that justifies making it an unscrutinized health care service. Planned Parenthood declares that the fee it charges is the correct one for the shipping and handling of the salable parts little Sally's sliced and diced remains, and that's the end of the matter. We mustn't even question the doctor's manipulation of the operation to produce the best possible product.
What's put to rest here is the lie that abortion proponents have any regard at all for the humanity of the pre-birth person. It's like a wart, like a carbuncle, like a fingernail paring. And anyone who says otherwise to them is a naïve, simple-minded, religious fanatic using the abortion matter to work out personal failings.
What's put to rest here is the lie that abortion proponents have any regard at all for the humanity of the pre-birth person. It's like a wart, like a carbuncle, like a fingernail paring. And anyone who says otherwise to them is a naïve, simple-minded, religious fanatic using the abortion matter to work out personal failings.
22
No wonder the republicans lost the women vote by 10 percentage points in 2012. Women do not like this anti-choice agenda. They do not like these conservative politicians sticking their noses into the relationship between them and their doctors. The Supreme Court and the voters have rejected this anti choice campaign. They agree that no one in America should have the right to shove these conservative values down women's throats.
123
How would Republicans like it if the shoe was on the other foot?
Forcing someone who doesn't want a child to have one, is ethically equivalent to forcing someone who wants a child to get an abortion.
Forcing someone who doesn't want a child to have one, is ethically equivalent to forcing someone who wants a child to get an abortion.
9
This will always be a fight between the rights of two groups - those who are pregnant and their unborn children. I would like to think that for most of us it is morally wrong to take the life of those who cannot defend themselves, regardless of the circumstances of their conception.
But any organization that promotes and conducts abortions and then sells the remnants should not in any way be funded with federal taxpayer dollars.
But any organization that promotes and conducts abortions and then sells the remnants should not in any way be funded with federal taxpayer dollars.
2
It's disheartening that these political players so lack integrity. I can't understand what sense of accomplishment there is in striking a blow through falsehood. When you pick and choose your truths in order to believe your own horror story, you reveal that you're utmost concern is winning whatever sad game you think you're playing. The role of a public servant is to understand and enact what betters the lives of his or her citizens. Many of ours seem most interested in amassing support by whatever means necessary.
9
Why is it legal to set up a group that is fake and then let the fake group say it is the real one and attack one that IS real? What is WRONG with this country? How backwards is that?
The "religious wrong" is clearly close to taking over the entire government and it seems that the rest of us who are not them can't do anything about it. Please keep up this campaign NYT, if you don't who will?
People: Donate to Planned Parenthood. FIGHT BACK.
The "religious wrong" is clearly close to taking over the entire government and it seems that the rest of us who are not them can't do anything about it. Please keep up this campaign NYT, if you don't who will?
People: Donate to Planned Parenthood. FIGHT BACK.
19
Out comes my checkbook.
I've never donated to Planned Parenthood before, but now is the time. These scurrilous attacks will have the benefits of stimulating their fundraising generally and exposing the dishonesty and cowardice of their opponents.
So feel free to lie about PP. And Republicans, line up and stand behind the liars. Every day, your deceitful enmity against the public interest becomes more obvious.
I've never donated to Planned Parenthood before, but now is the time. These scurrilous attacks will have the benefits of stimulating their fundraising generally and exposing the dishonesty and cowardice of their opponents.
So feel free to lie about PP. And Republicans, line up and stand behind the liars. Every day, your deceitful enmity against the public interest becomes more obvious.
17
This is about as one sided as the video is supposed to be, according to you. Planned Parenthood is not the wonderful, women's rights organization that you make it out to be. Most of what the organization does is not moral or ethical. You make it sound as if some women would never get medical care if not for Planned Parenthood, but that's not true. The central reason for its existence is to provide a convenient place for some women who do not want to fulfill their responsibilities to go rid themselves of the offending fetus. No matter how you sugarcoat it, that is what the organization does and always has. I am deeply offended that my tax dollars are used to support this unethical organization.
17
What is wrong with you people? You should be ashamed. Treating life...any life...in this way is amoral and disgusting. If the graphic nature of the process described on those videos does not repulse you...you've lost your humanity. The rest of this discussion is just white noise.
8
Please tell us where else low income women can get birth control, pap smears etc.
1
Actually, abortion is a small portion of Planned Parenthood's operation. It would behoove you to open your eyes and get some facts instead of blind opinions.
1
The source of the video can be investigated as a crime, but it should not be the focus of the issues as the Romney 47% recording and other questionable sources are not. The information, be it the edited or available complete versions, should be and that is that Planned Parenthood has some truly disgusting people and attitudes and may have violated federal laws. This is of great public interest. As for the video, of course it was a political hit job, so what. It may also have been unlawful, well, we have seen that before and that should be dealt with as rigorously as all the others.
9
There must be some basis here for Planned Parenthood to sue these guys. Go on the offense. Take these troublemakers down. And while at it, as voters, let's vote these political opportunists out of office. They do not represent women at all.
Women, unite. It's time to really rebel against the "pro-life" agenda.
Women, unite. It's time to really rebel against the "pro-life" agenda.
12
The Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade never denied the humanity of the fetus. The fetus is a human being, la fetus c'est moi. Roe v. Wade considered viability as the moral gray area...The more viable, the more worthy of life, the more hesitation before the dismemberment of our youngest humans. That means, that even out of the womb, some of us are more viable, more "worthy" of life than others, according to Roe v. Wade standards of human development. It was and is a super-race argument that exists to weed out inferiors, the poor, the needy, the unwanted, the possible burdens on our society (Good-bye Beethoven). Super-race: That is us.
7
Planned Parenthood you can run but you can't hide. You've been caught with your deceit and lies and now you must pay the piper. It is only a matter of time before you will be shuttering this vile and evil operation. How many innocent lives have you wiped out at your locations -- all in the name of profit. The doctor had the gaul to joke about purchasing a Lamborghini as millions upon millions of babies will never take their first breath. You are a disgrace to humanity.
15
How many unwanted babies have you adopted? What about once these unwanted babies enter the world?
2
I'd like to see how many politicians who are AGAINST abortion (on the grounds that all life is sacred, abortion is murder, etc) are also FOR the death penalty, liberal applications of deadly force, sending more troops into hostile territory, etc.
What could be more hypocritical? The basic practice -- ending a life (or something that is almost a life, or could turn into one, or whatever) is the same. The only variable becomes the perceived justification. That would level the philosophical playing field, in my view.
Separate gripe: aren't conservative politics at least in part supposed to minimize the role of government in people's lives? Wouldn't sticking government into people's reproductive practices and sexual lives be the MOST intrusive conceivable place for government... ever?
What could be more hypocritical? The basic practice -- ending a life (or something that is almost a life, or could turn into one, or whatever) is the same. The only variable becomes the perceived justification. That would level the philosophical playing field, in my view.
Separate gripe: aren't conservative politics at least in part supposed to minimize the role of government in people's lives? Wouldn't sticking government into people's reproductive practices and sexual lives be the MOST intrusive conceivable place for government... ever?
8
Criminals lives are not valuable, unborn fetuses must be although actual children's lives are not valuable. I don't undestand it. Maybe be some anti choice person can.
1
"Level the philosophical playing field"? In what philosophy is abortion and war equivalent? How is an innocent fetus the same as a soldier carrying arms, or a convicted murderer?
2
Regardless of one's position on the issue, the videos are devastating propaganda, effectively produced and distributed. That fact is verified by the need for this op-ed, let alone the televised apology by the head of Planned Parenthood. Score one for the opposition.
14
It appears that with what seems to be unlimited funds and almost as much time we are revving up to what portends to be the biggest "goon show" in the history of American politics to be played on a continuous loop until the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November 2016. Between this bit of cultural warring, right wing backlash to same sex marriage and "The Donald" running for class clown and bully all at same time, Benghazi ... I'm willing to bet that things that need attention-Climate change, meaningful banking regulations, survival of the middle class are buried in this morass of slime as epitomized by this amazingly transparent bit of gotcha. As always, eventually the reportage will end up focusing on the reaction to the story rather than it's genesis.
2
The campaign of dishonesty against PP started decades ago when information about Margaret Sangor, the 'mother' of PP, was taken out of context and embroidered on, again dishonestly, to paint PP as 'pro abortion' and for practices mirroring eugenics, which was not unpopular in Sangor's time.
Planned Parenthood is an agency that has always been about the right for birth control; and it also has developed its pro-choice: That is, a woman has the right to take her own responsibility for keeping or terminating a pregnancy as her discernment of her life emerges. Birth control is a hot topic for a lot of reasons, but needs to be in the control of the people whose lives are framed by the carrying of children - the women who can conceive. Period.
A Congress that does not support women would do a lot to damage Planned Parenthood. They should NOT have that right.
Planned Parenthood is an agency that has always been about the right for birth control; and it also has developed its pro-choice: That is, a woman has the right to take her own responsibility for keeping or terminating a pregnancy as her discernment of her life emerges. Birth control is a hot topic for a lot of reasons, but needs to be in the control of the people whose lives are framed by the carrying of children - the women who can conceive. Period.
A Congress that does not support women would do a lot to damage Planned Parenthood. They should NOT have that right.
6
Another Republican lead attack on women's rights. Fight back in the 2016 Election and send these old foggies right back to where they belong in the dark ages. They want to shut down any women facilities. These videos clearly show that the money received is not for profit. Abortion is a very hard choice for any woman and Republicans want to again start persecuting women for making that choice. Guess what, won't stop them for doing it. They want to imprison women for having to make a tough choice. There are 7 billion people on this planet and we have been able to keep our population from exploding. Should really be investigating Republicans who profit from healthcare insurance and other healthcare related industries. I wonder...
3
This was indeed a political hit job. But Planned Parenthood and its allies have been leading with their collective chins for a long time.
Here's the thing: a majority of people in this country support abortion rights to some degree. But many of them share the feeling of the "pro-life" community that abortion is not a casual or trivial matter. Their "pro-choice" opinion arises from support of individual rights, as they see them, but not of approval.
When PP and the others, or even philosophers as thoughtful as Katha Pollitt, consider it to be an event that is of no great moment, or act as though it is routine, they lose a very large majority of the population. The selling of tissue,for what ever reason, is a politically naive and foolish act, an outrage to many.
Here's the thing: a majority of people in this country support abortion rights to some degree. But many of them share the feeling of the "pro-life" community that abortion is not a casual or trivial matter. Their "pro-choice" opinion arises from support of individual rights, as they see them, but not of approval.
When PP and the others, or even philosophers as thoughtful as Katha Pollitt, consider it to be an event that is of no great moment, or act as though it is routine, they lose a very large majority of the population. The selling of tissue,for what ever reason, is a politically naive and foolish act, an outrage to many.
14
From surfing some of the comments I see that Republican apologists for this creep (who actually started this little skirmish in the culture wars) have taken to complaining about the NYT attacking him personally by publishing some personal background on the fellow. Apparently, Republicans believe the background of muggers is not to be looked into too closely. Unless they're democrats of course like Clinton.
9
I should be surprised that the left is justifying the actions in these horrific videos, but I am not. They put the lie to the unborn being merely clumps of tissue, although Planned Parenthood treats them as such. Even the Planned Parenthood employees refer to the head and internal organs of these babies, and talk about murdering them in a less "crunchy" manner. This is disgusting and reprehensible.
Why is it legal to murder a child in the womb via abortion, but a person can be charged for murder for killing that same child in any other manner? This alone should prove that abortion is murder, pure and simple. Justifying Planned Parenthood goes beyond the pale.
Why is it legal to murder a child in the womb via abortion, but a person can be charged for murder for killing that same child in any other manner? This alone should prove that abortion is murder, pure and simple. Justifying Planned Parenthood goes beyond the pale.
18
They are not viable children. To call them as such is like saying that a seed is a corn plant. The mother is responsible and has the right to make decisions up until the time the fetus has developed enough to be a viable child outside the womb. Your argument lacks logical coherency.
3
Really? I don't see anyone justifying anything about these doctored videos.
I honestly don't understand how these people justify their actions to themselves. How can someone deliberately falsify something for public consumption — essentially, lie about it — and feel that it's the right thing to do?? And then people swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Between those who are deliberately and knowingly lying and those who are uninformed enough to believe the lies, I find it very hard to even listen to conservative opinions. I simply don't trust that anything they claim by way of fact actually has any relationship to reality.
10
"I honestly don't understand how these people justify their actions to themselves."
Talk to the producers and reporters of such shows like "60 Minutes" Decades ago they did a "report" on the proliferation of handgun sales to minors. The crew went to Miami and hired a teenager, gave him money, and asked him to go into gun stores and buy a handgun. As it turned out, the teenager was turned down by over a dozen gun stores because the he couldn't produce any ID to verify his age. But one store - just one - sold the kid a firearm. That was the only store reported on during the entire 20-minute segment that the show aired.
Understand this - the issue being highlighted is the moral aspect of harvesting and selling parts of aborted fetuses by an organization that receives federal funding. And the bulk of the liberal media and the Democratic Party is deliberately ignoring the story because it makes them look bad.
Talk to the producers and reporters of such shows like "60 Minutes" Decades ago they did a "report" on the proliferation of handgun sales to minors. The crew went to Miami and hired a teenager, gave him money, and asked him to go into gun stores and buy a handgun. As it turned out, the teenager was turned down by over a dozen gun stores because the he couldn't produce any ID to verify his age. But one store - just one - sold the kid a firearm. That was the only store reported on during the entire 20-minute segment that the show aired.
Understand this - the issue being highlighted is the moral aspect of harvesting and selling parts of aborted fetuses by an organization that receives federal funding. And the bulk of the liberal media and the Democratic Party is deliberately ignoring the story because it makes them look bad.
3
I've been forced to accept that there is nothing these bible-thumping zealots won't say or do to promote their cause. Liars will lie. Cheaters will cheat. Apparently their morality doesn't require them to tell the truth or make their case in a rational way. That's a curious kind of morality to me.
I wish there were some way to hold the makers of this video legally accountable for their deception.
I wish there were some way to hold the makers of this video legally accountable for their deception.
14
1. If it's going to be insisted that Planned Parenthood did nothing illegal, then what did this organization do that is illegal?
2. How do you think we get much of our journalistic information? Did Mitt Romney know he was being video taped regarding his 47% comment?
3. This isn't a Republican-Democrat, Prolife-Prochoice, etc kind of issue. People on all sides were horrified by the videos. You may disagree, and that's fine, but a lot of people are wondering: If the liver is valuable, why not the baby?
2. How do you think we get much of our journalistic information? Did Mitt Romney know he was being video taped regarding his 47% comment?
3. This isn't a Republican-Democrat, Prolife-Prochoice, etc kind of issue. People on all sides were horrified by the videos. You may disagree, and that's fine, but a lot of people are wondering: If the liver is valuable, why not the baby?
3
"Liars will lie. Cheaters will cheat."
Make sure you include political parties, special interest groups, and other individuals in that statement. And it's not just zealous "Bible thumpers" who find abortion and its aftermath morally wrong.
Make sure you include political parties, special interest groups, and other individuals in that statement. And it's not just zealous "Bible thumpers" who find abortion and its aftermath morally wrong.
3
Increased attacks by the Republicans against women's reproductive rights were so predictable when they lost their battle against gay marriage. The reason for this was stated by a conservative decades ago while talking on a hot microphone that he thought was cold. He had just spoken at a gathering of Christians and was taped saying "the great thing about these conservative Christians is that you can get them fired up about abortion or gay marriage (or women's rights or illegal immigrants or the environment or welfare, etc.) and they are like putty in your hands."
What's so sad is that these attacks lead to more death and misery for the vulnerable among us. How shameful of these leaders who use religion and ideology as weapons against the weak.
What's so sad is that these attacks lead to more death and misery for the vulnerable among us. How shameful of these leaders who use religion and ideology as weapons against the weak.
16
"What's so sad is that these attacks lead to more death and misery for the vulnerable among us."
Please tell me who is more vulnerable than the unborn?
Please tell me who is more vulnerable than the unborn?
2
It's way past time to turn the tables on those who think they have the right to impose themselves on the most private and personal aspects of our lives. Is this Mr. Daleiden married? Does he have children? If so, has he not considered that the medical research made possible by the donation of fetal tissue is also used for neonatal research? If no to the above, does he have a girl friend? He's 26 yrs. old, and sexually mature. How often and with whom does he have a relationship? What form of contraception is used? If a pregnancy should occur, will he become the legal father of any offspring that result? These are some very personal questions that normal people would consider no one else's business.
Or, maybe we should surreptitiously follow him with a video camera and find out for ourselves. How about it Mr. Daleiden? Would you like that?
Or, maybe we should surreptitiously follow him with a video camera and find out for ourselves. How about it Mr. Daleiden? Would you like that?
12
I have felt for the longest that what the American people really desire on the abortion issue is a compromise that would leave some abortions safe and legal but would properly and pre-emptively protect the unborn in all the other instances.
Some Democrats do not seem to want any compromise at all. They want an absolutely unrestricted right to any abortion, anywhere, all of the time.
Democrat strategy to achieve this involves all the classic propaganda techniques--impugning the reputations and motives of their opponents, misrepresenting and severely distorting the opposition arguments. and trying to establish a lexicon of politically correct terms that they will exclusively use to frame the discussion.
Thus distinct body parts from a viable fetus become mere "tissue" and so forth.
The left wing mainstream establishment media are doing a pretty good job of stonewalling the Planned Parenthood Expose. This editorial board hit piece takes a lot of chutzpah to put forward, but true believers will swallow it.
Are you really winning the hearts and minds of the American people? It seems to me the liberal Democrats are falling into a bitter ender type of siege mentality--muttering to yourselves that the unalterable tide of history is still with you, blah blah.
Some Democrats do not seem to want any compromise at all. They want an absolutely unrestricted right to any abortion, anywhere, all of the time.
Democrat strategy to achieve this involves all the classic propaganda techniques--impugning the reputations and motives of their opponents, misrepresenting and severely distorting the opposition arguments. and trying to establish a lexicon of politically correct terms that they will exclusively use to frame the discussion.
Thus distinct body parts from a viable fetus become mere "tissue" and so forth.
The left wing mainstream establishment media are doing a pretty good job of stonewalling the Planned Parenthood Expose. This editorial board hit piece takes a lot of chutzpah to put forward, but true believers will swallow it.
Are you really winning the hearts and minds of the American people? It seems to me the liberal Democrats are falling into a bitter ender type of siege mentality--muttering to yourselves that the unalterable tide of history is still with you, blah blah.
15
@Michael L. Cook
Seattle
It seems to have escaped your notice that it's the Republicans are the ones uninterested in compromise on this issue as they are on so many other matters from Obamcare to taxes. But since you're clearly a Republican partisan I suppose that's to be expected. Too funny.
Seattle
It seems to have escaped your notice that it's the Republicans are the ones uninterested in compromise on this issue as they are on so many other matters from Obamcare to taxes. But since you're clearly a Republican partisan I suppose that's to be expected. Too funny.
5
The NYT is part of the Establishment now, in sync with Wall Street and Big Government - accountability means nothing at these institutions.
In the Media Biz there's a saying: Where's there's smoke, there's fire.
Real news organizations would investigate the possibilities of poor governance at Planned Parenthood, instead the NYT rushes to its defense.
The video(s) put Planned Parenthood in a bad light, even the possibility of fetal tissue for sale should have heads rolling at Planned Parenthood.
In the Media Biz there's a saying: Where's there's smoke, there's fire.
Real news organizations would investigate the possibilities of poor governance at Planned Parenthood, instead the NYT rushes to its defense.
The video(s) put Planned Parenthood in a bad light, even the possibility of fetal tissue for sale should have heads rolling at Planned Parenthood.
15
@Ad Man
Kensington
Well the short videos would put PP in a bad light because they've been deceptively edited by a deeply unethical organization to produce that result as this editorial explains in some detail although you seem incapable of understanding it. The full 2 hour video tells a somewhat different story.
Kensington
Well the short videos would put PP in a bad light because they've been deceptively edited by a deeply unethical organization to produce that result as this editorial explains in some detail although you seem incapable of understanding it. The full 2 hour video tells a somewhat different story.
4
" The letter also says Biomax offered a Planned Parenthood affiliate $1,600 for a fetal liver and thymus, ..."
This is the standard O'Keefe model of entrapment and spin. For the 'Biomax' cinematographers this means a couple of years of accolades and speeches at nutty conferences.
The big picture, however, is of (mainly) white men insisting on telling women what to do with their bodies. The abortion debate is really a patriarchal assault on 50% of their fellow citizen. If you want women not to have babies, persuade the menfolk not to have sex with them.
This is the standard O'Keefe model of entrapment and spin. For the 'Biomax' cinematographers this means a couple of years of accolades and speeches at nutty conferences.
The big picture, however, is of (mainly) white men insisting on telling women what to do with their bodies. The abortion debate is really a patriarchal assault on 50% of their fellow citizen. If you want women not to have babies, persuade the menfolk not to have sex with them.
14
Create a lie and repeat it until it becomes the "truth". Those who repeat the lie are still liars. The complete video tells a completely different story, contrary to the lies.
9
Thank you for writing a strong and accurate editorial publicly exposing these abuses of the truth. Now how do we get it covered by all the other media.....
8
I wonder if the person writing this has ever felt a BABY move in the womb (16 weeks), heard a baby's HEART beat (at 9 weeks), or seen a BABY kick and suck its thumb on a sonogram (19 weeks), because I have, and I would love for someone to challenge that this is not considered LIFE- my baby was a totally separate person from myself, therefore, it would be murder for me have terminated him! The deception is not on the part of the undercover videographers, it is on the part of those defending this disgusting practice- they are lying to the world and themselves to make everyone "feel good" about murdering babies who will never have the chance to live. Planned Parenthood may provide "quality" health care, but what kind of organization won't allow sonograms to those considering abortion, but will use them in order to perform abortions so to not "crush" certain "tissue" or organs? The practice is evil in all ways, no matter how you look at it. Sure, the video is edited, but it doesn't change the fact that organs from aborted babies have had a price put on them.
22
No, let's be clear: CONSERVATIVE politicians are using deception to get what they want. This is par for the course. Deception, threats and - in some cases - actual violence (murdering abortion providers). These are the only techniques the far-right understands.
11
The same deceptive editing of videos was used to destroy ACORN. Do not let it destroy Planned Parenthood!
10
The whole "pro-life" crowd are hypocrites at best.
They do not care about human life. All over the world, men, women, and children die every day from political violence, from lack of access to clean water, from easily contained diseases, and lack of food. Children in our own communities go hungry or are malnourished. We accept the deaths of young children in our home from domestic abuse and gun violence. We have no problem with gruesome stories of the death penalty gone wrong. We send our young men and women off to wars of choice to die for the war profiteers.
Unnecessary deaths all around, and nary a peep from the "pro-life" proponents.
Hypocrites at best, pro-death at their worst.
They do not care about human life. All over the world, men, women, and children die every day from political violence, from lack of access to clean water, from easily contained diseases, and lack of food. Children in our own communities go hungry or are malnourished. We accept the deaths of young children in our home from domestic abuse and gun violence. We have no problem with gruesome stories of the death penalty gone wrong. We send our young men and women off to wars of choice to die for the war profiteers.
Unnecessary deaths all around, and nary a peep from the "pro-life" proponents.
Hypocrites at best, pro-death at their worst.
20
So people who are pro-life are against clean water, and in favor of gun violence and malnutrition. And your answer is we need more abortions? Instead of worrying about the pro life hypocrites, why don't you worry about your own hypocrisy and fight for the defenseless in the womb? Pot, meet Kettle...
2
You surely must be aware that it is usually Christian organizations first on the ground in cases of natural disasters and disease. Remember the "Ebola doctors" most were Christian medical missionaries. Organizations like World Vision and Samaritans Purse dig wells, dispense vacines, build shelters after hurricanes and earthquakes, and their staff risk their very lives. While secular organizations raised a tepid response to Ebola, Christian groups were on the ground caring for the afflicted and sometimes getting sick themselves.
4
Fetal tissue is the term used to disguise what they mean when actually talking about livers, hearts and lungs. I believe that everyone who wants an abortion should by law be require to view the different procedures used to abort a fetus. From a month into pregnancies all the way up to the late term procedure especially when the skull colapapes
14
I am, for the most part, pro-choice. As someone who has experienced abortion first-hand I understand that this issue is a very personal one and, for many, not taken lightly. Having said that, this video, whether the intent was to link Planned Parenthood with the selling of fetal tissue is almost beside the point. The callous and flippant way the doctor described the "crushing" above and below the organs to properly harvest and protect them for later sale is the main issue for me. It was horrific and showed a side of the abortion issue that most people do not think about.
I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion in the first trimester. After that, well, unless the life of the woman is endangered, abortion should be illegal. Women know they are pregnant after they miss one or two periods. After 3 months it is a baby and a life.
I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion in the first trimester. After that, well, unless the life of the woman is endangered, abortion should be illegal. Women know they are pregnant after they miss one or two periods. After 3 months it is a baby and a life.
19
sorry, but your statement that "[all] Women know they are pregnant is just not true, meaning that your conclusion is flawed as it's based on a false premise.
1
A little disappointing to have an editorial rebuttal from Cecile Richards attacking the messenger rather than having a discussion of the issue. Ms. Richards should not be moderating the conversation. Yes, the movie makers are right wing activists and Ms. Richards is a left wing zealot. Now that we have the name calling out of the way, how do we as a society feel about the process of negotiating the sale and harvesting of unborn babies/fetuses. Let's keep away from laws and stick to the medical ethics debate and stay away from the emotion. Ask yourself the question, at how many weeks can you justify harvesting healthy human tissue for medical testing. Planned Parenthood is casually discussing the harvesting of developed body parts and human organs for medical testing. Planned Parenthood gladly takes taxpayer money to support its operation so we should honestly have this debate not as a political issue, but as a medical ethics issue. When should we terminate a healthy human life and cut it up for sale to the highest bidder.
17
If you want to "stay away from the emotion" you could start with yourself by neutralizing your language. The movie makers are right wing "activists" and Ms. Richards is a left wing "zealot." A little disappointing - as you say - to have a right wing zealot trying to hide behind a "medical ethics" debate. In any case, medical ethics can be discussed without focusing on Planned Parenthood because it's a more pervasive topic than this - as indicated PP doesn't do anything unique in terms of scientific utilization of fetal tissue for medical research. (And it is fetal tissue and not "human organs.") Also as indicated, had you read the editorial, PP receives no tax dollars for any aspect of providing a woman's constitutional right to abortion. Read, think, and get off your woman-controlling soapbox, sir.
2
An expose of "Center for Medical Progress", "Biomax", and their "officers" ... and how the company gained tax free status would be very enlightening...
11
Yes, David Daleiden and his fellow conspirators should be investigated, exposed, censured and, if at all possible, prosecuted. But after reading this case and viewing excerpts of the video, I now have a problem with Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood, it looks like you’ve gotten comfortable and let down your guard. Remember, the lives of millions of women and girls and their families depend on your continued operations. You are caretakers. With a noble and necessary commission, you cannot afford to relax your guard nor feel entirely safe. It's unfortunate but true. Never forget that your enemies are powerful, well-funded, and – in their lack of conscience – always scheming and formidable. Misogyny is a horrible force, vicious, hateful, and persistent throughout the world, in every culture, going back at least two millennia. It occupies the recesses of disturbed minds and would like to control entire civilizations. In countering it, you need to act with utmost care. You could have more thoroughly investigated this man’s company, and of course always show respect for potential meanings of the embryo/fetus. The well-being of millions of people depends on how you handle these big and small events.
As for the rest of us, I hope we will see the necessity of giving what we can to help Planned Parenthood continue its work. Thanks so much for your contribution, Planned Parenthood. But please, be careful out there.
Planned Parenthood, it looks like you’ve gotten comfortable and let down your guard. Remember, the lives of millions of women and girls and their families depend on your continued operations. You are caretakers. With a noble and necessary commission, you cannot afford to relax your guard nor feel entirely safe. It's unfortunate but true. Never forget that your enemies are powerful, well-funded, and – in their lack of conscience – always scheming and formidable. Misogyny is a horrible force, vicious, hateful, and persistent throughout the world, in every culture, going back at least two millennia. It occupies the recesses of disturbed minds and would like to control entire civilizations. In countering it, you need to act with utmost care. You could have more thoroughly investigated this man’s company, and of course always show respect for potential meanings of the embryo/fetus. The well-being of millions of people depends on how you handle these big and small events.
As for the rest of us, I hope we will see the necessity of giving what we can to help Planned Parenthood continue its work. Thanks so much for your contribution, Planned Parenthood. But please, be careful out there.
12
Your criticism of Planned Parenthood is for letting down its guard and not for harvesting organs or altering abortion procedures to make the harvest easier?
2
Rand Paul jumped on this story the same way he jumped on the immunizations/autism story. It he still licensed? What kind of physician makes medical judgements based on tabloid stories? Or legal ones for that matter?
11
As a practical matter, Planned Parenthood is the largest and most successful anti-abortion organization. It does so by promoting people to use birth control when not planning a family, in other words, to plan parenthood.
24
Republican or not .. Ladies please remember these politics when you go to vote next time and every time.. its a flagrant and planned attack on woman's right to freedom and choice and medical service.
12
Funny, I thought the arrogant, vampiric ladies in the videos were so-called Planned Parenthood doctors.
13
It must be a truly difficult decision for a woman to choose an abortion and a blessing that their are organizations like Planned Parenthood to provide her with nonjudgmental information and support. (Borrowing from Swift) You can tell the quality of the organization by the confederacy of dunces that rises up against it.
These people apparently lied to the government when they applied for a not for profit status, lied to Planned Parenthood when they filmed this charade and there is no reason to believe they aren't lying to the viewer by selectively editing their footage.
Of course there are moral reasons why a person might object to an abortion, but it is strange that this unbridled concern for the unborn doesn't carryout to those who are born. The same people who would deny a woman's right to choose, also take great pleasure in reducing assistance to mothers who are raising a child. It is disingenuous to oppose abortion and to also oppose programs that would help a parent raise their child. Easy access to food assistance, medical care, child care and housing might remove the barriers to choosing to have a child. If we provide these, along with a sophisticated and honest birth control program to children, young adults and adults, the need to choose an abortion might be reduced. That is something we should all work toward.
These people apparently lied to the government when they applied for a not for profit status, lied to Planned Parenthood when they filmed this charade and there is no reason to believe they aren't lying to the viewer by selectively editing their footage.
Of course there are moral reasons why a person might object to an abortion, but it is strange that this unbridled concern for the unborn doesn't carryout to those who are born. The same people who would deny a woman's right to choose, also take great pleasure in reducing assistance to mothers who are raising a child. It is disingenuous to oppose abortion and to also oppose programs that would help a parent raise their child. Easy access to food assistance, medical care, child care and housing might remove the barriers to choosing to have a child. If we provide these, along with a sophisticated and honest birth control program to children, young adults and adults, the need to choose an abortion might be reduced. That is something we should all work toward.
14
This is the greatest human rights tragedy in the entire course of human history. 55 Million dead humans. Those who defend this have no right to speak out against any social justice issue EVER.
18
Ho about the injustice of forcing women to have children they don't want? never ceases to amaze me how men know what is best for women.
2
An aborted fetus is not a dead human. Those without a womb have no right to speak about a woman's health and reproductive choices.
1
‘The Center for Medical Progress — which managed to get tax-exempt status in 2013 as a biomedicine charity’
Wink, wink IRS, sick ‘em! Just another attempt to influence the powers of government to squash political speech, disgusting.
Wink, wink IRS, sick ‘em! Just another attempt to influence the powers of government to squash political speech, disgusting.
2
In the modern media world undercover videos like this are, for better or for worse, now common practice. To those on the left who decry this video as unfair, and to those who shout "sue, sue!," I would remind you that left leaning organizations like PETA and others use undercover videos as well.
I also seem to recall an undercover video of Mitt Romney during the last election; did you think that he had the right to sue over that one?
I also seem to recall an undercover video of Mitt Romney during the last election; did you think that he had the right to sue over that one?
11
I hope that the Republican congress decides to make a big deal over abortion. I think most people in this country believe that a woman should make decisions about reproduction without government interference. It will only highlight that the Republican party is old white men who want to use the government to impose their religious views on others.
7
This editorial is a disgrace, and it shows how soulless the left has become. Forget the racist nature of abortion (over 50 percent of African American pregnancies in New York will be terminated by abortion). Forget that 55 million lives have been killed in the womb. No, just write an editorial that supports a practice that it is totally indefensible. The fact that no medical breakthroughs have been made using the tissue from these aborted babies is not lost on the editorial team. If just one medical breakthrough was made, don't you think it would be made known? One must ask where the shame is?
While the editorial writers have no fear of the great beyond, one ponders how they can live with the knowledge that they defend this practice? Is the "it's my body, and no one can tell me what to do with it" attitude so important to defend? I wonder if Solider's should use that line of reasoning when landing on Omaha beach?
What about adoption. As the father of two adopted children, I am bless by the fact that their mothers CHOOSE to have them. Every life has value. This practice of destroying life because it is inconvenient is a practice that will be looked at in the future with disgust. Those of you who are pro-choice are in favor of KILLING babies. It is that simple, and no leaps of logic can take you away from the fact that a child in the womb was killed for nothing more than convenience.
While the editorial writers have no fear of the great beyond, one ponders how they can live with the knowledge that they defend this practice? Is the "it's my body, and no one can tell me what to do with it" attitude so important to defend? I wonder if Solider's should use that line of reasoning when landing on Omaha beach?
What about adoption. As the father of two adopted children, I am bless by the fact that their mothers CHOOSE to have them. Every life has value. This practice of destroying life because it is inconvenient is a practice that will be looked at in the future with disgust. Those of you who are pro-choice are in favor of KILLING babies. It is that simple, and no leaps of logic can take you away from the fact that a child in the womb was killed for nothing more than convenience.
14
Why do you think abortions happen more amongst African American women? Could it be that they have no economic opportunity to support a child, or multiple children, in our society? Abortion for convenience? Where are you getting your ideas from? Clearly you don't have a womb yourself and it appears you've really never asked an actual woman about her lived experience.
Where did you dream up your claim that no medical breakthroughs have been made using fetal tissue for research, and when is your "due date" for such breakthroughs. You do know that medical research takes years. By the time you or your family may have Alzheimers or Parkinsons perhaps this research will have helped arrive at an effective treatment or cure.
Finally, read the article in August 2015 Cosmopolitian Magazine to find out how the pervasive system of Christian-run, taxpayer funded, anti-abortion, anti-contraception "Pregnancy Centers" are also anti-adoption.
Where did you dream up your claim that no medical breakthroughs have been made using fetal tissue for research, and when is your "due date" for such breakthroughs. You do know that medical research takes years. By the time you or your family may have Alzheimers or Parkinsons perhaps this research will have helped arrive at an effective treatment or cure.
Finally, read the article in August 2015 Cosmopolitian Magazine to find out how the pervasive system of Christian-run, taxpayer funded, anti-abortion, anti-contraception "Pregnancy Centers" are also anti-adoption.
1
The real deception here is that Planned Parenthood is not being a bad actor. They do a lot of good for a lot of women who would not be able to receive obstetric and gynecologic care anywhere else. They offer planned parenthood unlike other groups whose sole interest is in forcing women to have children they can't afford to have, or don't want because of various important reasons. These reasons can include rape, incest, birth defects, as well finance. As anyone who has ever needed any sort of assistance from the government will tell you, it is demeaning, you don't usually receive what you need, and it is subject to the whims of the government or officials in charge. That is not a recipe for good assistance when it comes to medical care, welfare, food, or anything else.
If the people who are flat out against abortion for any reason all decide to put all their free time and extra money into supporting all parents with children they were forced to have they can continue to try and forbid abortions. Until they are willing to support families created by lack of access to abortions they should not be allowed any say in how women deal with their reproductive abilities, period.
If the people who are flat out against abortion for any reason all decide to put all their free time and extra money into supporting all parents with children they were forced to have they can continue to try and forbid abortions. Until they are willing to support families created by lack of access to abortions they should not be allowed any say in how women deal with their reproductive abilities, period.
10
No man or woman has any right to offer more than advice to a woman with regard to any decisions she chooses concerning her body and until a group of cells however advanced in development is viable outside the womb that group of cells is still just a part of the woman's body.
Outside the purview of invented beliefs, arguments to the contrary have no actual validity and as such any actions based on those beliefs should be considered illegal and where called for prosecuted41`.
Women like men have the basic human right to control their bodies and any steps to thwart that right are taken on a path leading to slavery.
Some men may not agree and some women may not understand, but woman is at least man's equal.
Outside the purview of invented beliefs, arguments to the contrary have no actual validity and as such any actions based on those beliefs should be considered illegal and where called for prosecuted41`.
Women like men have the basic human right to control their bodies and any steps to thwart that right are taken on a path leading to slavery.
Some men may not agree and some women may not understand, but woman is at least man's equal.
11
Does the baby get a vote? I am sure if you had a vote when you were in your mom's womb, you would have argued in favor of the pro-life position.
The irony is that every person in favor of this appalling practice is VERY pro life when it comes to their own lives.
As for your basic human right to control their own bodies...does that apply to the Department of Defense....Does a Solider ordered to take a hill have this made up right? This is about narcissism, plain and simple. The Right to LIVE for the baby growing inside the mother outweighs the mother's rights to do whatever she want because she might be a self centered narcissist. This is about birth control after the fact, and 1 million abortions a year is not defensible.
The irony is that every person in favor of this appalling practice is VERY pro life when it comes to their own lives.
As for your basic human right to control their own bodies...does that apply to the Department of Defense....Does a Solider ordered to take a hill have this made up right? This is about narcissism, plain and simple. The Right to LIVE for the baby growing inside the mother outweighs the mother's rights to do whatever she want because she might be a self centered narcissist. This is about birth control after the fact, and 1 million abortions a year is not defensible.
2
This editorial restores my faith in the New York Times, which, as recently as earlier today, was badly shaken by the front-page coverage given to this deceitful attack on a woman's right to choose. I was thinking of cancelling my print and online subscriptions because of what I saw as bestowing credibility to sensational propaganda in order to sell papers, when I went back and saw this editorial. Thank you. Distortion is distortion, lies are lies; let the news coverage remove all doubt that there's anything "fit to print" in this latest attack.
9
It won't so much as slow down the liars and the lying, of course, but here's what Factcheck had to say on this issue.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
You'll notice--well, if you read with your eyes open--that PP doesn't sell "organs," at all, that what we're talking about is tissue, that what's going on is both legal and ethical, and that the fees requested were well within guidelines.
It will also be noted that fetal cells and tissues were essential to developing polio vaccines as well as about half the vaccines used today that have saved the lives and health of tens of millions of kids.
We now return you to your regularly-scheduled program of lying, cheating, sneaking around, and dreaming up alibis for lying, cheating and sneaking around for political gain.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
You'll notice--well, if you read with your eyes open--that PP doesn't sell "organs," at all, that what we're talking about is tissue, that what's going on is both legal and ethical, and that the fees requested were well within guidelines.
It will also be noted that fetal cells and tissues were essential to developing polio vaccines as well as about half the vaccines used today that have saved the lives and health of tens of millions of kids.
We now return you to your regularly-scheduled program of lying, cheating, sneaking around, and dreaming up alibis for lying, cheating and sneaking around for political gain.
22
Did you view the videos? They're talking about liver, heart, extremities. And the fees we are talking about are purported to be cost reimbursement. If that's the case, why haggle? Your costs are your costs, this much in shipping, this much in storage, etc. There's no need to negotiate. You negotiate when there's a margin involved.
4
The videos that have been released are not political in nature. If the commenters here would take the time to actually view them, they would see doctors discussing late-term abortions in terms that are cringe-worthy. Dr. Deborah Nucatola confides that she "crushes" above and below the child's torso to ensure that valuable organs are removed intact, and Dr. Mary Gatter says that she uses a "less crunchy" method to achieve the same end. The second doctor, while haggling over price, also laughingly says that "I want a Lamboghini". If only costs are being reimbursed, why the haggling? If these were baby whales or puppies being torn limb from limb, the nation would be in an uproar. These are our children. Where is your heart?
15
I actually have the heart of a young, innocent boy. i keep it in a jar on my desk.
By the way--now that you're lying about what was said on a lying video--where are you keeping your honesty?
By the way--now that you're lying about what was said on a lying video--where are you keeping your honesty?
1
If the women have expressed a desire to donate tissue and signed a consent form why would the doctor not try and collect the material in a way that preserves the donation?
"Fetal tissue" is a nice, antiseptic terminology intended to avoid having to discuss the particulars of what is being discussed. What was actually under discussion in the video was removing and reselling the liver of a fetus and the procedures Planned Parenthood was using to avoid damaging that liver by making sure the fetus came out feet first and the right timing and placement to crush the head or lower body of the fetus to do so.
16
Planned Parenthood should do two things. Fire Dr. Deborah for stupidity in taking the meeting. Require ALL entities wishing an interview to submit to a cavity search in advance.
7
Just like making sausage--people don't want to know the whole story. If abortion is okay, we may as well know the whole story. If it makes people queasy, that might be the needed incentive to improve things, or just improve things a little. The video made me queasy and made me feel bad. I didn't like how the doctor talked about fetuses. It was disrespectful, extremely so. That doesn't make me want to ban abortion, it just lets me know the full story, which is my right.
12
Since you wanna know the whole story, go work in a NICU for a year. Get acquainted with maintaining an anencephalic "baby," on a ventilator; get to know what it's like to suction out a 600-gram preemie who's had four major brain bleeds, has a PDA and hyaline membrane disease, probably has major intestinal deformities, and is already permanently blind.
i have. You want all the facts? Go get 'em, tiger.
i have. You want all the facts? Go get 'em, tiger.
1
You will feel queasy if you ever attend the harvesting of organs from a corpse, too. That does not make doing it, or talking about it, bad.
The video was deliberately produced to make you feel queasy and bad. It was meant to make you feel, not think, like most propaganda.
That it succeeded as propaganda does not justify it, and that anti-choice people are as easily played as fiddles does not help their cause.
The video was deliberately produced to make you feel queasy and bad. It was meant to make you feel, not think, like most propaganda.
That it succeeded as propaganda does not justify it, and that anti-choice people are as easily played as fiddles does not help their cause.
2
I'd like to think that it will make people even more determined to practice and promote contraception.
1
It doesn't matter whether PP is selling the "tissue" or giving it away. The issue here is the indisputable horror of late term abortions -- in which fully formed babies soon to be born are killed and their hearts, livers and kidneys harvested. A far cry from the absurd antiseptic myth of abortion sold for decades by PP, the Times and others in which imaginary lumps of "fetal tissue" are painlessly vacuumed up.
17
Since abortion and the donating of tissue are both completely legal your opinion is only relevant to you.
1
How many abortion opponents would be willing to send women or doctors to jail for having an abortion?
How many abortion opponents would be willing to send women or doctors to jail for tissue donation?
I don't think many would be willing to do this.
Instead, most abortion opponents simply would not have an abortion themselves, and wouldn't claim to make decisions for other women.
But honesty or clear thought about this topic is taboo in the South where I live.
Instead rightwing organizations keep abortion opponents riled up, disgusted, or horrified by the latest outrage. Then they get a slogan to repeat but can't remember what is really at stake.
So we get the bizarre spectacle of Senator Paul, who is thought to be a libertarian, but whose idea of human liberty apparently extends only to half the population.
Same old, same old.
How many abortion opponents would be willing to send women or doctors to jail for tissue donation?
I don't think many would be willing to do this.
Instead, most abortion opponents simply would not have an abortion themselves, and wouldn't claim to make decisions for other women.
But honesty or clear thought about this topic is taboo in the South where I live.
Instead rightwing organizations keep abortion opponents riled up, disgusted, or horrified by the latest outrage. Then they get a slogan to repeat but can't remember what is really at stake.
So we get the bizarre spectacle of Senator Paul, who is thought to be a libertarian, but whose idea of human liberty apparently extends only to half the population.
Same old, same old.
6
I just want to know what the other option is: Drive abortion underground? I wasn't around or old enough to remember what it was like before Roe v Wade, but I've read the horror stories. Scores of women, dead, because they couldn't obtain a legal abortion.
At the end of the day, women deserve autonomy, privacy, and the right to make their own medical decisions. Defunding Planned Parenthood will punish women; and that to me, seems to be the whole point.
At the end of the day, women deserve autonomy, privacy, and the right to make their own medical decisions. Defunding Planned Parenthood will punish women; and that to me, seems to be the whole point.
10
My future donations to Planned Parenthood will be my largest.
11
Every female in the United States has access to healthcare, cancer screening, contraceptives, gynelogial check ups, etc either thru personal insurance, obamacare or Medicaid. So why are taxpayers giving PP a half a billion dollars a year to perform the same services? Why? Because a good portion of our tax dollars are going to PP abortion services. It's time to defund PP and let them exist on the donations from individuals who agree with their principles.
11
i could mention that PP spends maybe three percent of its budget on abortion services, and that by law Federal funds are not used for such purposes.
But that would mean mentioning reality,min which you have no interest.
But that would mean mentioning reality,min which you have no interest.
1
Remind me please: What did "pro-life" do to save zygotes, embryos, fetuses and "unborn babies" in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where were the "pro-life" protests demanding protection for pregnant women and the "life" they carried? I don't remember any from the "pro-life" White House or "pro-life" members of Congress or "pro-life" organizations. It must be "pro-documented American life."
Robert Flynn, San Antonio, Texas
Robert Flynn, San Antonio, Texas
11
If the anti-abortion movement really cared about stopping abortions they would put all their energy into supporting cheap, widely available birth control.
Planned Parenthood distributes birth control cheaply - they help to stop 10s of thousands of abortions by proactively making sure there is never a need for one.
Where is the anti-abortion movement on birth control? Why spend 3 years doing sleazy videos when simply providing birth control and fighting to make it more accessible is a better way to stop abortion?
These anti-abortion folks are so zealous they even support the assassination of abortion doctors. It really seems they are more interested in punishing people who have sex and punishing Democrats who want to make birth control widely available rather than stopping abortion.
Why? This "issue" could end tomorrow if Congress passed a bill that made birth control cheap and widely available.
Why does the anti-abortion movement insist on NOT allowing for widely, cheaply available birth control?
Is abortion really the issue here? Or is it something else? Is it that the "anti-abortion" movement really wants to regulate sex? Is it that they want to stick their noses in everyone's bedroom and tell them to stop having sex? Because, it is abundantly clear, we can end this issue tomorrow if we could pass a law that allowed for widely, cheaply available birth control.
Planned Parenthood distributes birth control cheaply - they help to stop 10s of thousands of abortions by proactively making sure there is never a need for one.
Where is the anti-abortion movement on birth control? Why spend 3 years doing sleazy videos when simply providing birth control and fighting to make it more accessible is a better way to stop abortion?
These anti-abortion folks are so zealous they even support the assassination of abortion doctors. It really seems they are more interested in punishing people who have sex and punishing Democrats who want to make birth control widely available rather than stopping abortion.
Why? This "issue" could end tomorrow if Congress passed a bill that made birth control cheap and widely available.
Why does the anti-abortion movement insist on NOT allowing for widely, cheaply available birth control?
Is abortion really the issue here? Or is it something else? Is it that the "anti-abortion" movement really wants to regulate sex? Is it that they want to stick their noses in everyone's bedroom and tell them to stop having sex? Because, it is abundantly clear, we can end this issue tomorrow if we could pass a law that allowed for widely, cheaply available birth control.
10
The ACA gives widespread , free birth control. That was one of the main components of the voter registration act,aka Obamacare.
2
Organ/tissue donation, wherever it occurs and whomever the donor, is not cost-free. Why is it different - and wrong - for the family to donate fetal tissue/organs than for the family to donate corneas, organs, skin, etc. from their loved one who died in an accident - or for the hospital/clinic to cover their expenses?
6
Suggestion for Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Sanders, and any other democratic politicians expecting to be debating your republican counterparts over the next year:
Consider asking Mr. Paul and Mr. Cruz to fully clarify their comments quoted here, and to demonstrate their grasp of both the Planned Parenthood and Center for Medical Progress organizations.
Consider asking Mr. Paul and Mr. Cruz to fully clarify their comments quoted here, and to demonstrate their grasp of both the Planned Parenthood and Center for Medical Progress organizations.
8
I just made a donation to Planned Parenthood, which is my best response when I read about these attacks. Where is the organized political response to politicians who are misusing taxpayer dollars and resources in a fraudulent campaign?
6
I am so sick and tired of politicians and the self-righteous involving themselves in people's personal affairs and decisions... when there are roads to fix, climate problems to address, climate concerns, violence to curb, hungry children to feed and educate, corruption to investigate, an economy to nurture with jobs, institutions "too big to fail" to regulate, etc., etc., etc.
When will Congress and its politicians GO TO WORK to solve the country's IMPORTANT problems of the day?
When will Congress and its politicians GO TO WORK to solve the country's IMPORTANT problems of the day?
6
We haven't learned any more about legal abortion than we already knew before this latest story hit the news. What have we learned? - the despicable lengths some folks will go to in order to discredit others' point of view (the false posing, the surreptitious video, the selective editing), all to create a false impression of reality and distort the truth. In the end, they serve not to discredit others so much as to discredit themselves.
4
Are you surprised that people who find what Planned Parenthood does to be abhorrent and immoral would try to stop them? Who cares how they were videotaped, or how they were tricked, or how they fell into a trap? What they're doing at PP IS illegal! How can you watch both whole videos and not find that their costs are virtually nil, and they hope to do "better than break even", and they don't want to be low-balled. They rearrange the fetus for no good "womens' health" reason except get a better grip for "less crushy". As for the "health services" they provide to "millions", what are they? Abortion? That's the business, and business is profitable. Birth control? They don't dispense it for free. You can get that at Walmart for $4. Breast exams? Ah, they'll refer you for one and take the middle-man's cut. They don't perform them. Yet they publicly pressured a legit charity, Susan G. Komen, into giving them more money when the breast cancer group decided to cut their funding because they didn't do anything. Planned Parenthood has used their protectors in the government and media to build an abortion empire. I'm not surprised it took the NYT a week to muster a defense. I'm just surprised at how weak a defense it is.
15
You need to get back on your medications. You should also learn a few of the rules of grammar before your next adventure onto the internet. And change your handle to "I_Love_Patriarchy".
1
Well stated.
I would like to add two points, 75% of pp's business is babies of color and why is the taxpayer paying them 500 million a year?
I would like to add two points, 75% of pp's business is babies of color and why is the taxpayer paying them 500 million a year?
3
Yet another example of "the facts don't matter" as long as it serves some "greater good." Our politicians are daily lying to us in ways too hard to believe. I fully respect people feeling passionately about policy but the end does NOT justify the means EVER! If truth does not get you there, then there is likely something wrong with the request.
3
So, is there any difference between the actions of The Center for Medical Progress's actions against abortion and those of Rolling Stone against campus sexual assault?
Legalities aside, discussing the "harvesting" details brings to light the realities of abortion. The Times, of course, takes cover under the dance of semantics but every empathic human being has to feel disturbed by these truths of terminating pregnancy. The horrific details of removing a fetus in such a manner that organs are not "crushed" or damaged is revolting enough to hammer home the moral point regardless of the implications of selling or profits possibly gained.
81
A "potential" life can never take precedence over the rights of the already living--the woman carrying the embryo/fetus. Under the privacy rights we all have under the U.S. Constitution, others are not allowed to interfere with or substitute their judgment for the most central rights of another person.
2
These are doctors. Their objectives to not include addressing your queasiness, but the medicine of what they are doing. Would you consider regulating how heart surgery is done because the physical cracking of a chest is distressing to contemplate?
2
Thankfully this attack on Planned Parenthood was easy to debunk. Far more worrying is that in 2015 there are still so many men who will do anything to try to control the lives of women.
5
GOP agenda is always
-attack, attack, attack aforethough
-launch an investigation (taxpayer expense)
-defund attacked entity
-repeat
Never do they have a constructive thought or a plan that services the public good. They are the eternal "nowhere man"
-attack, attack, attack aforethough
-launch an investigation (taxpayer expense)
-defund attacked entity
-repeat
Never do they have a constructive thought or a plan that services the public good. They are the eternal "nowhere man"
9
Shocking lack of morals these Christian Republicans have. Good people should shun them.
11
What I found most interesting is that the CBS Nightly News aired this story last night and delivered it verbatim as though it was "news"! There was a one liner after all of the hype and video discussed here, that stated PP said it was untrue and was an edited video. But, they still ran the video and had a commentator (analyst) who was a professor at some university condemning this "sale of tissue for thousands of dollars"!
I thought at the time-because I had read about this scam on line- that this presentation by CBS was deliberately aired regardless of validity! While it is good to go after the politicians on this and other matters, it is important for PP to mount a very aggressive attack on CBS and the other networks who deliberately present incorrect information!
This is important stuff and unless it is retracted, with a long explanation of how it happened and someone called out publicly, the damage done here will last! My personal opinion is that PP has been losing the political ground because they have not been pushing the media hard enough.
I thought at the time-because I had read about this scam on line- that this presentation by CBS was deliberately aired regardless of validity! While it is good to go after the politicians on this and other matters, it is important for PP to mount a very aggressive attack on CBS and the other networks who deliberately present incorrect information!
This is important stuff and unless it is retracted, with a long explanation of how it happened and someone called out publicly, the damage done here will last! My personal opinion is that PP has been losing the political ground because they have not been pushing the media hard enough.
4
I believe completely in the innocence of Planned Parenthood in this matter.
Going forward, it should arrange for the expenses for fetal tissue donation to be paid by the recipient in the first place, so that they receive no funds from them at any time.
Going forward, it should arrange for the expenses for fetal tissue donation to be paid by the recipient in the first place, so that they receive no funds from them at any time.
3
There's probably justification for the outrage expressed by the editors on this issue. It's not dissimilar to the outrage Republicans feel when Donald Trump presents himself under our banner as a candidate for our presidential nomination, basically fouling the sandbox for serious play.
But we're not countering that absurd plaint for attention by Trump very effectively, are we? Similarly, Planned Parenthood is a conflicted organization that habitually gives hostages to fortune, empowering their ideological adversaries unnecessarily.
Planned Parenthood provides necessary healthcare services to MANY disadvantaged women. In doing so it occupies a very useful place in our society, and a necessary one. Yet there are some within it who are hardly politic in their insistence that abortion is merely another healthcare service and should be regarded as such by everyone, despite visceral disagreement by millions of Americans.
What Planned Parenthood should do is split its organization into two completely different divisions that demonstrably don't share facilities, personnel or funding, and where the abortion division is completely funded by private contributions, not by public monies of any kind -- and can prove it. If they were to do this (which, despite claims, they have not), then they would continue to enjoy the heated opprobrium of the far-right on their abortion efforts, but would find all their OTHER services largely protected from having public monies stripped from them.
But we're not countering that absurd plaint for attention by Trump very effectively, are we? Similarly, Planned Parenthood is a conflicted organization that habitually gives hostages to fortune, empowering their ideological adversaries unnecessarily.
Planned Parenthood provides necessary healthcare services to MANY disadvantaged women. In doing so it occupies a very useful place in our society, and a necessary one. Yet there are some within it who are hardly politic in their insistence that abortion is merely another healthcare service and should be regarded as such by everyone, despite visceral disagreement by millions of Americans.
What Planned Parenthood should do is split its organization into two completely different divisions that demonstrably don't share facilities, personnel or funding, and where the abortion division is completely funded by private contributions, not by public monies of any kind -- and can prove it. If they were to do this (which, despite claims, they have not), then they would continue to enjoy the heated opprobrium of the far-right on their abortion efforts, but would find all their OTHER services largely protected from having public monies stripped from them.
5
Translation: he wants PP banned from providing any abortion services whatsoever.
Robert:
Bad translation. But if Planned Parenthood is defunded, they won't be providing ANY services, will they? About time they got with it politically: they don't operate in a country where everyone agrees with them, they've not been very successful at convincing all those taxpayers who fund the abortions they perform of their worldview, so if they want to go on doing good generally, they'd better adopt a more practical approach to a large and diverse population.
Bad translation. But if Planned Parenthood is defunded, they won't be providing ANY services, will they? About time they got with it politically: they don't operate in a country where everyone agrees with them, they've not been very successful at convincing all those taxpayers who fund the abortions they perform of their worldview, so if they want to go on doing good generally, they'd better adopt a more practical approach to a large and diverse population.
1
This is a good suggestion and you're not the only one to mention it. I wish someone could explain why Planned Parenthood hasn't done this already.
1
This issue with the Planned Parenthood videos is NOT just a pro-life issue. It's one thing to abort an unborn child, then it is another to lose all respect and dignity for the terminated life. The Planned Parenthood representatives talk about fetal body parts like its nothing while they are eating. This is the culture that has become our society. It is unacceptable that the representative is drinking and eating while she discusses the end of a potential life. There has to be some basic humanity and dignity that comes with talking about a potential human life. No one made this woman talk about crushing fetal organs, but she does, and in this context. Edited or not, this video demonstrates that. It is sad to me that the left wing is trying to defend or excuse this behavior. Why is it that you condone his murder but then ignore the murders of four of our marines? God bless and pray for our country.
11
How can an unedited video of someone be deceptive. Taken out of context maybe, but she said what she said.
14
It was heavily edited to create a deceptive conclusion.
2
Counter to its claims, this editorial in no way proves that the accusations about Planned Parenthood are false. On the contrary, it ignores the fact that changing a method of abortion to suit feasibility of the organ parts being sold is illegal! It further completely ignores the second video interview where the Planned Parenthood director in California is seen and heard bartering for how much she can get for various body parts, and punctuates this with a statement saying she would very much like to have a certain Italian sports car. This hypocritical manipulation of the truth is shameful; and the facts which it distorts are extremely disturbing, unethical and almost certainly illegal as the second video demonstrates clear verbal intention to sell aborted babies' body parts for profit, thereby changing the method of abortion to better accomplish their profit-making mission. Yes, research is involved - but seemingly of secondary importance when compared to the material gains of their actions. It seems the more advanced we are, the less civilized - and more hypocritical and callous - we become.
68
The problem with the story is that FOX News has taken the story and ran with it. The NYT editorial although useful cannot compete with willful deception by the Republican Party and its powerful network of disinformation,
8
Planned Parenthood has long provided quality health care and education to generations of women. As a young woman, I took advantage of those services and was impressed with the quality of information and kindness of the staff. This political "hit job", as another called it, is despicable but an entirely predictable smear campaign of lies by hate mongers and religious fanatics. In the 1970s, I surely did not foresee the vitriol that is now directed at this fine organization. It saddens me to think that my grandchildren may not have the this tremendous resource available, if the nuts are successful. The GOP politicians - the perpetrators of this (and many other) smear jobs - should be ashamed. One way to respond to this attack is to donate to Planned Parenthood. I am doing so today.
11
It is not a campaign against women's reproductive rights at all, but against women's health and ability to act autonomously, to get information, health care, any substantive rights.
A campaign slogan to be posted at breast cancer runs, etc:
More than every dollar you raise by running for breast cancer is cut by Republicans intent on destroying women's health - you'll never be able to run fast enough to protect yourself, your mother, daughter or wife.
Today Republicans are targeting pour women's rights to healthcare - tomorrow they'll be coming after yours.
A campaign slogan to be posted at breast cancer runs, etc:
More than every dollar you raise by running for breast cancer is cut by Republicans intent on destroying women's health - you'll never be able to run fast enough to protect yourself, your mother, daughter or wife.
Today Republicans are targeting pour women's rights to healthcare - tomorrow they'll be coming after yours.
7
The dishonesty of this video – and it is truly dishonest, as well as foolish – is dwarfed by the sophisticated distortions invoked by supporters of legal abortion: that foetuses are not human beings, that abortion is a purely "medical procedure" unrelated to infanticide, that opponents of abortion want impose their religious views on others, control women's bodies, take away their "rights," and so on. Such fantastical thinking amounts to a campaign of self-deception.
3
The tactics used here seem to follow the playbook used for the Acorn videos of a few years back in which actors playing a pimp and a prostitute sought housing. One of the goals of the Acorn videos was to embarrass Barack Obama, through his association with Acorn--and, of course, to defund Acorn. Here, they seek to defund Planned Parenthood and embarrass Hillary Clinton through her support for Planned Parenthood and other women's health initiatives. We will all lose out if they succeed.
The ultimate goal of these efforts is to reduce public support for anything beyond the military.
The ultimate goal of these efforts is to reduce public support for anything beyond the military.
9
How can you possibly make Hillary Clinton out to be the victim in this video? This video is about human decency and compassion, not about politics.
4
The people making these trumped, highly edited video lies only succeed if we let them. For me personally, they only succeeded in my increasing my donation to Planned Parenthood by a factor of 10.
16
How I want you to be correct. To me, however, it looks like the strategy of lying and manipulation is working. The delusional end of "stopping BABY MURDER!!!" defies all logic (and medicine itself). It clearly justifies ANY means.
Please explain to me why I should not raise you 2 in my next NRA ILA contributions.
1
I would wager that every politician involved is Republican. I wonder why the Supreme Court ever bothered to rule that abortion is legal? How gullible are politicians regarding their own beliefs. But, we already knew that, didn't we. I do hope somebody keeps turning over the rocks to see who slithers out into the real world to reveal the truth.....
1
To add to your talking points, all 7 justices on the Supreme Court who made Roe legal were men.
2
Any woman ( and the man who loves her ) who votes for a Republican candidate in the next election has to have their brain tissue examined if their "choice" is based on these deceitful misrepresentations of what Planned Parenthood does with fetal tissue. What wonderful research is going on to improve the lives of the living as well as those still to be born. My husband and I have donated our bodies to the local medical school when we die. Either you believe in helping mankind discover new treatments and solutions in medicine and science or you don't deserve to benefit from all that is found.
10
The last sentence is the key: "Lawmakers responding by promoting their own anti-choice agenda are rewarding deception and putting women’s health and their constitutionally protected rights at risk." In other words, these "lawmakers" believe that lying is OK as long as it supports their agenda.
11
What does "anti-choice" mean? Most pro-lifers I know are fine with adoption or the mother keeping the child. Isn't that giving them a choice?
3
Pursuant to Citizens United, corporate entities have rights that other "persons" have. So maybe Planned Parenthood, as a corporate entity (albeit a non-profit one) should sue for defamation and get compensatory and punitive damages from the defamers.
13
I have to wonder if the right wing is any longer capable making an ethical, undistorted, flat fact presentation of its issues at this point. Indeed, can they separate fact from demagoguery and sensationalism? Do they even know what a fact is? More important, do they even care about making a distinction between what's true and what's false? The right wing has long complained about the ascent of so-called moral relativism, but the fact is, they are its greatest - and most egregious - practitioner.
11
I am so tired of these men constantly trying to oversee women's reproductive health! I never hear them insist on men financially and emotionally supporting a woman who becomes pregnant. No, it appears they want to go back to the history of hundreds of years or blaming women for getting pregnant and shaming her. Then, ducking out on the support of the child.
11
It is hot "reproductive health" to kill and sell baby parts.
As for the rest of your statement, there are plenty of places that employ men and women who support women emotionally and financially that are pregnant. I've seen many women's lives changed through the help of these places that help them get employment, housing, etc. They help the mom's decide whether to give up for adoption, abort or raise the baby themselves.
As for the rest of your statement, there are plenty of places that employ men and women who support women emotionally and financially that are pregnant. I've seen many women's lives changed through the help of these places that help them get employment, housing, etc. They help the mom's decide whether to give up for adoption, abort or raise the baby themselves.
I suggest getting out more. There are plenty of men who are responsible and compassionate.
2
Americans must realize that the republican party is determined to undermine and eliminate the right of women to control their bodies. Organizations such as the center for medical progress and their ilk are no more and no less than hit squads available for hire to the republican party. Neither accurate facts nor balanced discussion of complex issues that ought to be the private domain of the woman and her doctor are relevant to a political party committed to its social agenda.
Planned parenthood is a beacon of counsel and services to women who are in need of such counsel and services. The republican party is a beacon of repression to such women for the simple reason that exploiting the issue of abortion galvanizes their party members to vote for republican politicians.
Any woman who votes republican votes for an organization dedicated to the proposition that partisan politics dwarfs a woman's ability to make her own choices.
Planned parenthood is a beacon of counsel and services to women who are in need of such counsel and services. The republican party is a beacon of repression to such women for the simple reason that exploiting the issue of abortion galvanizes their party members to vote for republican politicians.
Any woman who votes republican votes for an organization dedicated to the proposition that partisan politics dwarfs a woman's ability to make her own choices.
17
I would never have made a decision to have an abortion myself, but, as long as it is the law of the land, I will defend every woman's right to make that choice.
10
After 5 months? Hillary called banning after 5 months "dangerous, extreme and unacceptable".
This story isn't about women's right to abort. It is about selling baby parts and doing abortions in a way to keep organs intact and viable so that they can sell them. Do you defend PP on that too?
This story isn't about women's right to abort. It is about selling baby parts and doing abortions in a way to keep organs intact and viable so that they can sell them. Do you defend PP on that too?
3
I think a lot of these things like the hobby lobby lawsuit and another recent one about obamacare are actually set up first by the politicians and operatives. Then the politicians claim shock. It's not that they happen and then the politicians find out and demand some action. What's so awful about all this is the American public has become so easy to dupe they can't see this is what is happening.
8
I know this is purely a political agenda, but I am also dismayed (and it's because it's a poli thing) that we have Senators who are ready to draft legislation (to defund) based on a single, edited, clearly biased video? Don't we want more data? What an awful set of politicians we have in our government who think and act like this -- and those two are running for President!
11
Yes, 50,000,000 abortions has nothing to do with a politician's desire to defund PP? It's all based on 1 three-hour video.
Whatever happened to making abortion "rare?"
Whatever happened to making abortion "rare?"
3
I'd like to ask all of the presidential candidates who profess to be so shocked by this video what proposals they offer to women for healthcare should their plan to defund Planned Parenthood succeed. Where would women go for routine healthcare, which PP clinics provide-free or at low cost for women of limited financial resources?
1
Paul, Cruz, Abbot and Jindal, all elected leaders, didn't spend the time investigating whether CMP and its information was legit; their abortive move to discredit PP was premature.
9
So, what is new?? Those you name, and many other Republicans, do not investigate anything except what happens to be under their fingernails. But, then, WE THE PEOPLE elect them to public office, don't we? Nobody to blame but us................
The issue is that taxpayer dollars should not fund, aid and abet this practice. Get the government out of the abortion business. And yes, it is a big business. It's the abortion industrial complex.
13
It's amazing to see how many "grownups," are trying the old, "it's just GROSS," argument.
Go watch surgery of any kind, willya? Ot's not what you'd call pretty, but it is both life-saving and interesting.
Oh, and as for the "using human tissue is disgusting and should be stopped!" throng?
Congrats: you just voted to outlaw blood transfusions, IVF, transplants, DNA record bases, the Human Genome Project, the cell lines vital to cancer research, autopsies, and about eleventy-one other absolutely-vital procedures.
Grow up.
Go watch surgery of any kind, willya? Ot's not what you'd call pretty, but it is both life-saving and interesting.
Oh, and as for the "using human tissue is disgusting and should be stopped!" throng?
Congrats: you just voted to outlaw blood transfusions, IVF, transplants, DNA record bases, the Human Genome Project, the cell lines vital to cancer research, autopsies, and about eleventy-one other absolutely-vital procedures.
Grow up.
17
None of the procedures you mention ends a human life, sir.
4
Having spent more than 20 years in the military, sometimes in hazardous situations, I could not, nor would I ever, object to the availability of human tissue to save me and/or my friends. Or, just ask the family of children who have suffered terrible burns how they feel about using human tissue as a partial cure........We have let politics overshadow common sense. But, I guess that is not new in the political game, is it?
1
Abortion is not a medical procedure. Whatever happened to "doing no harm?" What other medical procedure destroys innocent, healthy human life?
3
NYT, thank you!! I watched O'Reilly Factor last night and actually believed that Planned Parenthood was selling baby parts. Please keep investigating this!! I want to know:
1. what individuals are behind this?
2. where to they get their money from?
3. what political candidates do they support?
4. what do the legislators have to say about this?
And PLEASE continue to emphasize that funding Planned Parenthood does not equate to funding abortion!
1. what individuals are behind this?
2. where to they get their money from?
3. what political candidates do they support?
4. what do the legislators have to say about this?
And PLEASE continue to emphasize that funding Planned Parenthood does not equate to funding abortion!
2
People at Planned Parenthood really need to be careful who they go out to lunch with and what they say to others who are not vetted. It is distressing that these docs got taken in. They should never discuss these things with outsiders. Why would they?
2
I think the cavalier nature of the discussion is what is putting people off so badly. The PP docs really seem very blase about selling off body parts from aborted babies.
3
Be honest, the need to supplement income for Obama's medical legions a la Cuba has resulted in Yellow House innovation.
Who is lying?
I assume that fetuses are valuable for medical research. So does PP donate fetuses to the most worthy researchers, regardless of ability to pay? Or does it sell them? I believe it's that latter. Am I wrong? PP says it does not profit. This may or may not prove true, but in any event, it is not relevant. If I pay for a product, I am buying it, and the seller is selling it. Whether the seller makes a profit or not does not matter.
Selling fetuses or parts of fetuses may be a good thing. If so, PP and the NYT should defend that practice. But saying that PP does not sell fetuses or parts of fetuses because it does not make a profit is simply not true. When a customer pays a price for delivery of a product, a sale transaction occurs. Period.
I assume that fetuses are valuable for medical research. So does PP donate fetuses to the most worthy researchers, regardless of ability to pay? Or does it sell them? I believe it's that latter. Am I wrong? PP says it does not profit. This may or may not prove true, but in any event, it is not relevant. If I pay for a product, I am buying it, and the seller is selling it. Whether the seller makes a profit or not does not matter.
Selling fetuses or parts of fetuses may be a good thing. If so, PP and the NYT should defend that practice. But saying that PP does not sell fetuses or parts of fetuses because it does not make a profit is simply not true. When a customer pays a price for delivery of a product, a sale transaction occurs. Period.
2
Certainly this collusion, deception and outright fabrication for the purpose of intentional defamation is grounds for civil or criminal legal action.
Planned Parenthood should aggressively seek legal redress and or prosecution.
As for the truth and integrity of those political actors so quick to join the feeding frenzy of indignation, is anyone the slightest bit surprised?
Planned Parenthood should aggressively seek legal redress and or prosecution.
As for the truth and integrity of those political actors so quick to join the feeding frenzy of indignation, is anyone the slightest bit surprised?
7
The first public attack on Planned Parenthood that I noticed was from the Komen Foundation. The push back against that charity was so hard that some of their conservative board members had to resign. Also, that was the first time I gave money to PP. I hope the reaction this time will be just as strong as poorer women only have this charity to go to for medical help for reproductive needs.
7
It wasn't a public attack. Planned Parenthood made it one because Komen chose not to work with them. I thought PP was pro-choice.
2
This media witch-hunt is a perfect example of whipping up a hysteria based on emotions rather than reason. Is Planned Patenthood abducting women and forcing them to have abortions? No? Then there is no ethical problem here at all, even if they sell the tissue to defray their costs. If I had to have an abortion I would most definitely donate the fetal tissue to biomedical research. - and I'd accept a payment if offered. Fetuses are not persons; and ethically, the situation is no different from any other organ donation (less so because it is a by-product of a surgery performed for other reasons). But substitute "babies" for fetuses, conjure up horrifying images of children being sold for spare parts, and you have the makings of a mass hysteria. The result of this hysteria may be the closing of abortions clinics, ruined lives, unwanted children, and an irreparable damage to science and medicine. But who cares? It is so much more satisfying to indulge in self-righteous hatred of "baby-killers" (not incidentally, an epithet often applied to the Jews during medieval pogroms).
5
But they appear to be determining the method of abortion to obtain better specimens/parts, which is a big no-no per federal law. The patient is supposed to come first.
2
I'm not understanding why reps of Planned Parenthood are going to lunch with these people At all. Do the video makers not ID themselves? Or do they not ID themselves honestly as being with the Center for Medical Progress? If they do admit to their association, the red flags, bells and flashing lights need to go on. The CMP is clearly fishing for easy-to-bend info, trip-ups and mistakes so they can make hay on anything and everything they can record. You avoid these people, you don't get into a restaurant booth anywhere with them.
1
The Center for Medical Progress was being deceitful to serve its own purposes. It's a bogus company, selling itself as a reputable, legit medical research business. PP could spend the time and money, vetting every possible customer, but that can become onerous. I guess you shouldn't trust anyone, but the "full" video covers the delicate issues thoroughly along with the beauty and benefit of tissue donation. The edited version, being used by several presidential hopefuls, is "an abortion".
1
My history is off...what was the German "paper of record" that told the world that no, the Nazis were not turning Jews into soap?
The tide is turning liberals and real people see PP as simply an abortion mill that does a few nice things to cover up its blood lust. PP was started by a eugenics racist who detested black people and is now run by inane pseudo feminists with a badge of disdain for the weakest among us to fulfill a desire to prove history wrong about killing. Obama will regret asking GOD to bless PP as did many Americans who praised Hitler at first...bank on it.
I Double Secret Dare the Editorial Board to print this honest view held by MOST Americans...
The tide is turning liberals and real people see PP as simply an abortion mill that does a few nice things to cover up its blood lust. PP was started by a eugenics racist who detested black people and is now run by inane pseudo feminists with a badge of disdain for the weakest among us to fulfill a desire to prove history wrong about killing. Obama will regret asking GOD to bless PP as did many Americans who praised Hitler at first...bank on it.
I Double Secret Dare the Editorial Board to print this honest view held by MOST Americans...
8
Radiolab did one of the best pieces I've heard on it recently that brought me to tears...and it involved a fetal specimen donation. I'd love to hear a conservative blowhard listen to episode and continue along with their ignorance.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/grays-donation/
http://www.radiolab.org/story/grays-donation/
2
The fire alarm has clearly been set among the leftist media, but the rescue efforts are falling flat. These editorials are demanding we not believe our lying eyes, and the fact that the NYT editors are at a loss to come up with something better just goes to prove how debauched an operation Planned Parenthood really is.
There are rumors that some of the videos that will be released in the coming weeks expose the racist genocide being perpetuated against black Americans. Can't wait to see what the editors come up to defend that.
There are rumors that some of the videos that will be released in the coming weeks expose the racist genocide being perpetuated against black Americans. Can't wait to see what the editors come up to defend that.
10
There needs to be consequences for putting such misleading, untrue videos out, PPA should be able to sue and bankrupt these liars and expose them to public ridicule.
4
If the evangelical right wing of Congress would cease their ridiculously relentless efforts to overturn what little rights we women posses, along with their greater attacks against the ACA, which is also an attack on women's rights, not only could we significantly improve our perception to rest of the modern world, but we'd likely take a sizable chunk of the national deficit off the books. Good job congress!!
4
How long will we be duped by politically motivated deceptions? With extremely rare exceptions, induced abortion is both detrimental to the physical and psychological health of women and the deliberate destruction of an unborn child.
Those who oppose abortion are actually the ones who side with the health and safety of women.
When a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy, she is terminating the life of her baby. The occupant of a mother’s womb is a human life with the potential of becoming a mature human being. Why do we have laws related to fetal homicide?
Why do Doctor’s perform fetal surgery on a baby in the womb? The life of the fetus is more than a product of conception. Induced abortion is feticide — the deliberate destruction of an unborn child There should be no room for word games on this matter.
Those who oppose abortion are actually the ones who side with the health and safety of women.
When a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy, she is terminating the life of her baby. The occupant of a mother’s womb is a human life with the potential of becoming a mature human being. Why do we have laws related to fetal homicide?
Why do Doctor’s perform fetal surgery on a baby in the womb? The life of the fetus is more than a product of conception. Induced abortion is feticide — the deliberate destruction of an unborn child There should be no room for word games on this matter.
4
This editorial makes me furious. It's not just the lying it details, and the refolting way that some of our stupidest elected officials are using the lying--which I'll bet they know is lying--as a cheap excuse for one more cheap, lazy attack on Planned Parenthood in an election year, from a political party that has lost its collective mind.
It's that these people will never, ever, accept any compromise whatsoever with their wacko, right-wing, fundamentalist Christian demands.
Roe v. Wade, followed by the Hyde Amendment, are compromises, and reasonable ones. They're not enough.
State laws limiting rights? Not enough.
Insane laws like Wisconsin's, outlawing third-trimester abortion? Won't be enough for these loons.
if we outlawed abortion, they'd go after contraception.
Make no mistake: these people want control, and they want it on their terms: no others need apply.
please make sure you're registered to vote, and that you do vote. If everybody voted, these...people...would get nowhere with their craziness, and their pet politicians would evaporate.
It's that these people will never, ever, accept any compromise whatsoever with their wacko, right-wing, fundamentalist Christian demands.
Roe v. Wade, followed by the Hyde Amendment, are compromises, and reasonable ones. They're not enough.
State laws limiting rights? Not enough.
Insane laws like Wisconsin's, outlawing third-trimester abortion? Won't be enough for these loons.
if we outlawed abortion, they'd go after contraception.
Make no mistake: these people want control, and they want it on their terms: no others need apply.
please make sure you're registered to vote, and that you do vote. If everybody voted, these...people...would get nowhere with their craziness, and their pet politicians would evaporate.
2
To paraphrase a bright women, sorry can't remember her name.
If these high and mighty Republican men talkers could get pregnant
abortion would be a sacrament
If these high and mighty Republican men talkers could get pregnant
abortion would be a sacrament
1
Rand Paul and Ted Cruz's expert testimony notwithstanding - from what I hear aborted fetuses are dead. I also hear all those dead bodies are piling up in freezer storage across the country. What a waste of resources and energy.
I'm 100% for using the tissue. If the new Know Nothings cut PP's funding maybe they should offset the loss by selling fetuses!
I'm 100% for using the tissue. If the new Know Nothings cut PP's funding maybe they should offset the loss by selling fetuses!
When news of the first video started trickling in through social media, I dismissed it as fiction from far right-wing crackpots. But it turned out that someone from Planned Parenthood actually said those horrific things. Just as disturbing are the attempts to rationalize and even justify what the Planned Parenthood officials said.
8
I am pro-choice with restrictions, but it has always bothered me how the left has trivialized abortion to the point of insanity. Liberals would rather save a serial killer on death row than an unborn child, the latter being the epitome of innocence. If Planned Parenthood is selling aborted fetuses' body parts, it first suggests that the fetuses are developed enough to have useable organs and second, that PP is a disgustingly immoral organization. You leftists are truly evil if you once again ignore the truth for the sake of your agenda.
5
The Planned Parenthood doctors spoke candidly when they didn't know they were being recorded. That is a fact. The statements about "crushing high, crushing low", referring to the destruction of a fetus in a manner designed to preserve heart, lung and liver should be shocking to any moral human being. The NYT and the Left are doing no more than shooting the messenger.
5
A child is not a gift to every family. Parents are supposed to make sacrifices to take care of this child and give it the best life they can. Hence, making such a sacrifice, as in devoting yourself to raising another human being, requires careful thought and resources. One should not do so involuntarily, especially in today's world with increasing poverty. There is no guarantee that a poor child will not grow up to be a world leader but the chances of that happening are low. The chances of that child growing up to be another struggling adult and to continue the cycle are high.
The point is that these clinics help prevent poor families from bringing children into the world they are not ready for. The tissue that is donated for research is a choice made voluntarily by the mother, the mother whose body the ball of cells would have developed into a baby in, the mother who might not have been able to bring the child to term in the first place due to lack of proper healthcare or other reasons.
Democracy stands for choice; if the mother is willing to bring the child to term, then so be it. If she is not ready, then it is her choice to end it. Republicans are trying to taint Planned Parenthood by touching emotions; science and emotion don't typically mix. By emotionally touching people with the video demonstrating the sale of human tissue, they are trying to distract voters away from the larger issue - the right of a woman to choose what is happening insider her body.
The point is that these clinics help prevent poor families from bringing children into the world they are not ready for. The tissue that is donated for research is a choice made voluntarily by the mother, the mother whose body the ball of cells would have developed into a baby in, the mother who might not have been able to bring the child to term in the first place due to lack of proper healthcare or other reasons.
Democracy stands for choice; if the mother is willing to bring the child to term, then so be it. If she is not ready, then it is her choice to end it. Republicans are trying to taint Planned Parenthood by touching emotions; science and emotion don't typically mix. By emotionally touching people with the video demonstrating the sale of human tissue, they are trying to distract voters away from the larger issue - the right of a woman to choose what is happening insider her body.
2
No child should be born to a mother who does not want it. I contribute every year to Planned Parenthood. You should too. Do it now.
4
You go ahead an contribute, but my tax dollars should not.
3
Wow, Planned Parenthood as victims! They aren't taking money as they crush the lower and upper parts of the unborn baby! They are happy to donate the liver, etc. to any charitable cause! Wow, they are so good! Killers.
9
Presumably senators Paul and Cruz and governors Abbott and Jindal, as well as all members of the Center for Medical Progress, have orders in their personal medical files to decline medical treatments of all kinds that may have benefitted from research that included human fetal tissue. If not, they need to think long and hard about the harm they perpetrate against American women.
As for the tax exempt status of The Center for Medical Progress? The IRS will say it is not staffed to look into the not-for-profit companies. I think they should make an immediate exception in this case, where real mischief has occurred. After that, set up a schedule of review of not-for-profits. The sector is enormous, and the tax-paying part of the country would welcome relief.
As for women who have donated fetal tissue, thank you for your act of respect and kindness. Hugs.
As for the tax exempt status of The Center for Medical Progress? The IRS will say it is not staffed to look into the not-for-profit companies. I think they should make an immediate exception in this case, where real mischief has occurred. After that, set up a schedule of review of not-for-profits. The sector is enormous, and the tax-paying part of the country would welcome relief.
As for women who have donated fetal tissue, thank you for your act of respect and kindness. Hugs.
4
It is simply amazing to read comments from people who have spent most of their lives excoriating the immorality of big business for eking out a 1 to 3 percent net profit by selling food, shelter, energy, medicine, and household goods defend the practice of selling organs from aborted children who were obviously developed enough to have very marketable organs. Inside this liberal echo chamber you are all patting yourselves on the back. Everyone outside of your little circle (including moderates) is thinking, "Oh, my God! These people are monsters!"
8
So what I saw and heard was not real? I saw and heard members of Planned Parenthood discuss prices for tissue, muscle, etc... Why is the NY TIMES lying? This has nothing to do with abortion. This has everything to do with criminal activity.
3
No it's been cherry picked and edited.. The criminal is the film maker with the hidden camera.
1
The irony to the allegation that Planned Parenthood is encouraging abortions in order to harvest "spare parts" is, of course, the "pro-life" presumption that women are nothing but baby machines in the first place.
4
What the article fails to mention is the most important point - the person behind the sting took down Acorn, ended federal funding for PBS and was found guilty of illegal acts when targeting Mary Landreau - he does this for a living, James O'Keefe of Project Veritas (Veritas meaning 'truth' in Roman mythology).
He goes undercover, gets film and cuts it in a way to deceptively demonize the victim.
He's become rich doing this for conservative media - to destroy certain targets. The left has no such operation- and I dare say wouldn't even conceive of such lie based reporting.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/02/03/133403770/group-sets-u...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/magazine/stinger-james-okeefes-greates...
He goes undercover, gets film and cuts it in a way to deceptively demonize the victim.
He's become rich doing this for conservative media - to destroy certain targets. The left has no such operation- and I dare say wouldn't even conceive of such lie based reporting.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/02/03/133403770/group-sets-u...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/magazine/stinger-james-okeefes-greates...
4
What about the person that covertly filmed Romney? Of course, they are innocent as the driven snow.
1
What's astounding is how callous and cavalier most members of the self-proclaimed "Pro Life" Party are when it comes to supporting wars for corporate profit, personal assault weapon arsenals, and serial pollution of the planet, while cutting healthcare, food, and educational programs for struggling citizens who have had the bad luck to have already passed through the birth canal.
It is insanity, pure and simple
It is insanity, pure and simple
4
I think the public should be made aware of which medications and medical procedures were developed with the use of research involving aborted fetal tissue. As a pro-lifer, it would factor into my decision when choosing a course of action for my own health care.
1
It's time to re-read "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. Chilling reproductive times for women. What is wrong with these Republican males?
4
I guess they didn't attend college in the US during the last thirty years, where they probably would have been forced to read Atwood's dystopian agit prop. Decades ago I was in the bookstore at U. of Mich. and just marvelled at how many freshman writing students, required to learn to write, were required to purchase this book to do so. I wonder if the New York Times disallowed these purchases, because they were bulk sales, as they put the book on their best seller list.
1
There are only Republican males? Wow, who knew. I know many Republican females who are just, if not more, outraged by the ghouls in the abortion industry. Your comment makes no sense.
Thanks for this clarification and the outing of the politicians who want to immediately legislate on the flimsy basis of lies. Did Abbott and Cruz watch only the edited version by the 3-member "Center for Medical Progress"? Why? Write an Op-Ed and explain yourselves.
Yes, let's haul these folks up before Congress to explain their editing and their tax exempt status.
Yes, let's haul these folks up before Congress to explain their editing and their tax exempt status.
3
NYT: "Who you gonna believe, us or your lying eyes?"
3
I love reading the comments in the NYT. Posters are so highly educated elitist liberals and write with so much eloquence that makes Dr. Hannibal Lechter look pale in comparison. It's a treat the way they elegantly analyze the Dr. mengelish type talk of those doctors: "is not organ , is tissues", "Is legal (to crush libs to save livers)", etc.
As some poster in a not-so-elegant discussion put it: "I think liberals are more nuanced over the fact the doctor prefers a Lamborghini over a Prius", or that the "Lamborghini would ran over and kill a squirrel".
There you have it.
As some poster in a not-so-elegant discussion put it: "I think liberals are more nuanced over the fact the doctor prefers a Lamborghini over a Prius", or that the "Lamborghini would ran over and kill a squirrel".
There you have it.
6
Setting aside, for the moment, the moral disagreement between sides on the abortion issue, let's just ask this question: Is it OK to distort, or lie about, what an opponent has said, or done, if it achieves what you regard as the greater good? The right wing answer seems always to be yes. This has been their answer throughout history, in this and other societies, throughout time and up until today. Any means justifies the end.
5
If the discussion was about the treatment of animals or animal fetuses, dogs, cats, bird's eggs, et al the outrage would be overwhelming and the practitioners of these practices could face arrest and jail sentences and would if the animal, bird or insect was a "protected" species. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
6
The answer for Planned Parenthood is to keep putting put out the truth. The internet and social media work BOTH WAYS. In this case, the fact that the anti-abortion religious nutcases have to resort to deliberate lies -- proven by showing the entire video -- seems to gut their entire argument and give rise to a better one: They are out of arguments against abortion that they have to resort to lies. And it proves once again that the religiously inclined never have any facts to back up anything they believe in.
2
The video is powerful because it reminds us that there is a head on the other end of those forceps. A head being carefully crushed in order to preserve the heart and lungs. It is uncomfortable, but pro-choice people need to own the dirty end of the abortion business. Heads are being crushed. Hearts are being delivered. Money is being exchanged. It's all legal so own it.
7
Oh, I own it. And I don't need to lie and cheat to make my claims, either.
1
The callousness of the Planned Parenthood executives can't be denied. And, of course, they're going to continue to be investigated by outsiders opposed to Abortion. Why is the fungible nature of money lost on the NYT's editorial board? Why does it diminish the people who hold deeply held beliefs about the immorality of abortion? Because it values "reproductive rights" so greatly, that it's willingly overlooking the abomination that is abortion?
They prevaricators that run the NYT only know one strategy; the one they so love in President Obama; the lesson they learned from their pals the Clintons; that flows from one of the wellsprings of their social prophet, Saul Alinsky; and that's to go on a personal attack of the motives of the opposition.
It's why the NYT is loosing favor with the wider public audience as it's voice doesn't represent more than half of America. The NYT's lack of objectivity; across the entire publication; makes it nearly an impossible proposition to support.
Unless is learns how to display a more open-minded approach it will continue to shrink into the inconsequential quagmire of time's foggy bottom.
They prevaricators that run the NYT only know one strategy; the one they so love in President Obama; the lesson they learned from their pals the Clintons; that flows from one of the wellsprings of their social prophet, Saul Alinsky; and that's to go on a personal attack of the motives of the opposition.
It's why the NYT is loosing favor with the wider public audience as it's voice doesn't represent more than half of America. The NYT's lack of objectivity; across the entire publication; makes it nearly an impossible proposition to support.
Unless is learns how to display a more open-minded approach it will continue to shrink into the inconsequential quagmire of time's foggy bottom.
8
I've seen the edited tapes and they are pretty impressive and leave no question that they are discussing modifying abortion procedures in order to "harvest" more useable tissue and organs.
And there is little doubt that they are discussing price.
If PP routinely allows donations of the organs of aborted children, they obviously should have a policy in place that describes exactly under what conditions PP will allow the donation, what the costs are, and what criteria and certifications a target organization must present in order to be eligible to receive a donation.
I've seen or read nothing on this. Methinks perhaps they do not have such documents, procedures and guidelines in place.
And while I believe that through certain stages of pregnancy it is the woman's right to elect abortion, after a certain point (4-5 months) I believe that abortion should only be undertaken after a tribunal of doctors have determined there is sufficient reason to grant an abortion.
But if I were a full fledged advocate for abortion at any time, that the child is not viable until wheeled out of the hospital, I would at least think twice about the fact that these abortions, conducted in the right way, can yield viable human organs.
And there is little doubt that they are discussing price.
If PP routinely allows donations of the organs of aborted children, they obviously should have a policy in place that describes exactly under what conditions PP will allow the donation, what the costs are, and what criteria and certifications a target organization must present in order to be eligible to receive a donation.
I've seen or read nothing on this. Methinks perhaps they do not have such documents, procedures and guidelines in place.
And while I believe that through certain stages of pregnancy it is the woman's right to elect abortion, after a certain point (4-5 months) I believe that abortion should only be undertaken after a tribunal of doctors have determined there is sufficient reason to grant an abortion.
But if I were a full fledged advocate for abortion at any time, that the child is not viable until wheeled out of the hospital, I would at least think twice about the fact that these abortions, conducted in the right way, can yield viable human organs.
3
What do you mean by "viable" human organs?
Regardless of the validity of the claim, the accusation is yet another wake up call. We all understand inside ourselves exactly what abortion really is. The question is how much longer can the conscience tolerate our collective denial of that reality.
9
CBS and 60 Minutes investigations have been edited on TV since 1968--never heard the NYT complain. Point? Everything is edited in the media to make the point of the news outlet or reporter. Including NYT.
'Don't believe your lying eyes,' would have been a good headline for this editorial.
'Don't believe your lying eyes,' would have been a good headline for this editorial.
5
Once again truth strikes back too late.
Just once it would be nice to see the people who run at the New York TImes get out of their ivory tower and not let lies like this go unchallenged for more than a week.
Because, as I can attest, the people who spread this latest lie didn't sit on their hands before flooding gullible newspapers across the country with
"outraged" letters to the editor, such as what I saw last weekend in the Concord Monitor, the newspaper from the state capital of New Hampshire.
Moreover, another reason why we need timely and comprehensive coverage - and not just another "outraged" editorial - is not only challenge lies from the right-to-life groups but more importantly to counter influential television "news" programs like ABC's 20/20 who are more than willing to act as partners in spreading these types of lies not for its "news" value but because it makes for "great" television.
Just once it would be nice to see the people who run at the New York TImes get out of their ivory tower and not let lies like this go unchallenged for more than a week.
Because, as I can attest, the people who spread this latest lie didn't sit on their hands before flooding gullible newspapers across the country with
"outraged" letters to the editor, such as what I saw last weekend in the Concord Monitor, the newspaper from the state capital of New Hampshire.
Moreover, another reason why we need timely and comprehensive coverage - and not just another "outraged" editorial - is not only challenge lies from the right-to-life groups but more importantly to counter influential television "news" programs like ABC's 20/20 who are more than willing to act as partners in spreading these types of lies not for its "news" value but because it makes for "great" television.
1
lies ?? The second video released pretty much answered all of the critics. The woman argued over who has to make the first offer in a cash negotiation. You cant possibly be that blind to see the truth.. Planned Parenthood alters abortion techniques to better procure the organs of aborted babies for the highest possible financial gain.. You simply cannot spin it any other way..
1
We must ask ourselves why women's reproductive rights are a red cape to a bull for those on the right. What exactly is the end game? Where do they hope to go with their deceit and restrictions? I don't have the answers, but it's difficult to accept their actions at face value.
It is one thing to attack equal rights for women, to attack reproductive rights, but to attack the one place that provides medical care to those who are most in need is reprehensible. Truly, these people have no shame, but be watchful...they have a plan.
It is one thing to attack equal rights for women, to attack reproductive rights, but to attack the one place that provides medical care to those who are most in need is reprehensible. Truly, these people have no shame, but be watchful...they have a plan.
2
Go ahead and do your abortions. What infuriates the "right" is the fact that the government subsidizes it.
2
Shouldn't Deleiden, Rhomberg and Newman be prosecuted for lying to the Federal government when they claimed they were setting up a charity, which is clearly not what they were doing?
The penalty for lying o the Federal gvernment is 5 yers in the slammer and possible fines. 18 U.S.C 1001.
Where are the cops when you really need one?
The penalty for lying o the Federal gvernment is 5 yers in the slammer and possible fines. 18 U.S.C 1001.
Where are the cops when you really need one?
3
We need to get real about population control. I am horrified to think the planet will add 2 billion more people in 35 years! The highest expansion of population in our planets history, and it is going to be ugly. The population has already doubled in my lifetime. I'm 56. Yes, let's have humane standards, let's promote birth control, but let's stop acting like idiots.The population explosion needs to be stopped! We knew this is the sixties and here we still have people using the very real need for these procedures to bolster their political careers. It is nothing but bs. Abortion is never going to be a positive subject of any film or anyone's life. All humans deserve to live on a planet that can sustain them. Tough realities we must all begin to face by promoting all forms of family planning around the world.
I am a reluctant abortion supporter. I would hope that it would the option of last resort. However, I see this campaign for what it is: an attempt to strip women of their right to choose little by little. These groups have shown themselves to be anti-abortion, as well as anti-contraception. They will continue to attack, and if they are successful in eliminating abortion rights, they will then move on to contraception. This is the endgame, even though widely available access to contraception is the best way to reduce abortion (see recent articles on Colorado contraception program). So, women beware, if you enjoy the same sort of sexual freedom that men have had access to for millennia, then you would be wise to take heed of the subtlety of this campaign. By attacking the most controversial part of women's reproductive freedom, they seek a foothold that will make them formidable. Once the camel get's its head in the tent, it may be too late.
3
I suspect the release date of these sting videos has something to do with a bill working its way through the California legislature that requires all medical facilities that deal with pregnancy and family planning to advise women of all services available to them under state law. The private Crisis Pregnancy Centers in the state are vehemently opposed to this and are seeking to discredit their favorite punching bag Planned Parenthood.
1
I remember that Pat Buchanan screamed about America was facing a "Culture War" way back in 1992.
Mr Buchanan was incredibly correct.
We face a "war" between the relatively small minority who would bring drag this nation to somewhere around the 12th century with all of its denials of science, belief in magic and sorcery and the vast majority of Americans who are trying to bring us fully into the 21st century with equal rights for all, a fair tax system, a government that builds great things, and so on.
(And just in case anyone forgot, Mr Buchanan was and is part of that minority as are those attacking PPFA and every single woman in this nation.)
Mr Buchanan was incredibly correct.
We face a "war" between the relatively small minority who would bring drag this nation to somewhere around the 12th century with all of its denials of science, belief in magic and sorcery and the vast majority of Americans who are trying to bring us fully into the 21st century with equal rights for all, a fair tax system, a government that builds great things, and so on.
(And just in case anyone forgot, Mr Buchanan was and is part of that minority as are those attacking PPFA and every single woman in this nation.)
2
you should probably look at some recent polling. The fact is, the more that is understood about abortion, the less popular and accepted it becomes..
1
When I was a boy I was taught that if I baptized a child killed in an accident, say, who wasn't Catholic, I had a ticket to heaven. I once had that opportunity but, alas, there was no water immediately available. Anti-family planning advocates may believe, for the same reason, they'll go to heaven saving a child in the womb. There has to be something in it for them.
1
so you would throw yourself in harms way for a newborn child. Would you attempt to save a pregnant woman ? would try to save the child ? At what point to you is that child worth saving ? This is the real debate. There will always be abortion options. You can take a pill and be not pregnant in the morning. To have access abort a 20 week child is barbaric.
Politicians lying? I'm shocked!
1
I will write a check today to Planned Parenthood.
That is my response.
That is my response.
3
What has happened to truth? Why isn’t the cry, “Prosecute these people to the full extent of the law!”? Fine and jail them. A few examples of hefty sentences, might just change the entire landscape of publication and serve the public interest along the way. Hold these publishers of lies accountable.
2
God planned parenthood.
1
I am hardly one of the "gullible, easily-deceived conservatives" decried below in these comments and while I am generally pro-choice, I was beyond disgusted by the first video even after reading the entire 60 page transcript. The doctor's arrogance and her blithe description of the procedures required to deliver viable organs to researchers have me seriously rethinking my stand on the issue. Here's some unsolicited advice: Lose the wine-soaked lunches. Do your homework so you know who you're meeting with and temper your professional demeanor so you don't come across as a caricature of everything people hate about doctors. You're not performing root canals. It's a really bad look.
4
If the Times has a problem with deception by abortion opponents, it should have spoken up earlier.
This sort of deception -- where people misrepresent who they are -- is routinely employed by law enforcement to discover wrongdoing. Take the use of “testers” in discrimination cases. Typically, a tester or undercover investigator poses as an applicant for housing, employment or some other type of service in order to detect and collect evidence of illegal discrimination.
This deception is also practiced by gotcha journalists. These "investigative journalists" go undercover and pose as for example, meat-handlers in supermarkets, in order to observe (and sometimes possibly stage) unsanitary practices.
Apparently the Times is against deception only when its ox is gored by it.
This sort of deception -- where people misrepresent who they are -- is routinely employed by law enforcement to discover wrongdoing. Take the use of “testers” in discrimination cases. Typically, a tester or undercover investigator poses as an applicant for housing, employment or some other type of service in order to detect and collect evidence of illegal discrimination.
This deception is also practiced by gotcha journalists. These "investigative journalists" go undercover and pose as for example, meat-handlers in supermarkets, in order to observe (and sometimes possibly stage) unsanitary practices.
Apparently the Times is against deception only when its ox is gored by it.
5
I don't recall the Times objecting when Jimmy Carter's nephew secretly taped Mitt Romney 47% comment.
3
Excellent post and oh, so true.
1
What else do we expect from fanatical cultists like CMP?
2
Why hasn't Planned Parenthood sued this group for deformation or libel? Why not challenge their tax exempt status (another GOP not paying taxes!). Just thoughts.
2
Its hard to sue someone for something you actually said.. planned parenthood did all the defaming..
1
From the Breitbart School of Journalism. The most disturbing thing is that it works. The shameless video hit job on Shirley Sherrod (one statement, taken out of context, to mean the opposite that was intended) got her fired. And James O'Keefe's "stings" on ACORN, equally shameless and deceptive, spelled the end of ACORN.
4
If one takes the time to watch the second video, Cecile Richards can be seen clearly negotiating a price. She even jockeys for position in regard to who should name their price first. And she makes light of the process. There is no editing in that entire sequence. Of course the Times editorial board chooses to ignore the clear evidence of wrongdoing, because it doesn't suit their politics. All the news that fits the agenda. Speaking of news, the front page article about the PP videos only strives to trash the reputation of the activist who recorded them. It too ignores the content and the facts.
6
My "First in America" ancestor had something like twenty seven children with three wives. Three wives? Yes, the first two and perhaps the third, died in childbirth. The often libeled founder of Planned Parenthood was thrown in jail for disseminating information about contraception. Where are we trying to go back to here?
4
1. The videos are not deceptive. Both the short version and the full 3-hour video of the Nucatola lunch were posted simultaneously.
2. Nucatola's use of abract terms (ie, "calvarium" for head) is deceptive.
3. Planned Parenthood is about avoiding parenthood. 95% of it's medical services are for abortion and not women's "health".
4. More black babies were aborted in NYC than were born.
2. Nucatola's use of abract terms (ie, "calvarium" for head) is deceptive.
3. Planned Parenthood is about avoiding parenthood. 95% of it's medical services are for abortion and not women's "health".
4. More black babies were aborted in NYC than were born.
5
"Never despair; but if you do, work on in despair." (Edmund Burke.)
Mankind's most fundamental problem is fundamentalism- religion. The sooner we embrace that and work to educate people out of these nonsensical Stone Age belief systems of an old man in the sky, an angry vengeful old man in the sky the better we will be.
100 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. 100 billion galaxies.
We've mapped the solar system to the square foot. Show me, on a map, where heaven is and explain how we get there.
The guy who created the universe cares if a woman shows some ankle in public or if we make fun of him to the point people should be killed in his name?
Religion is nonsense, anyone who looks the other way when it is promoted as fact is doing civilization a disservice.
100 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. 100 billion galaxies.
We've mapped the solar system to the square foot. Show me, on a map, where heaven is and explain how we get there.
The guy who created the universe cares if a woman shows some ankle in public or if we make fun of him to the point people should be killed in his name?
Religion is nonsense, anyone who looks the other way when it is promoted as fact is doing civilization a disservice.
2
It is of course a scientific fact that each human life begins at conception. Any other measurement is simply arbitrary.
3
two items; 1) the Left will be on the wrong side of history regarding late term abortions and 2) it must really burn the liberal lemmings that Saul Alinsky is nodding in approval at CMP's tactics...
4
You nailed it with the Alinsky comment.
1
The biggest threat to abortion rights is not the GOP or some right-wing group. It is science.
There can be debate around the societal need to keep abortion a legal option (and one which I support,) but as a matter of medicine and science, it is incontrovertible that we are ending a viable human life.
There can be debate around the societal need to keep abortion a legal option (and one which I support,) but as a matter of medicine and science, it is incontrovertible that we are ending a viable human life.
4
WoW 2 video that after watching them the video show not much of anything? Is that all they got?
Thank you for showing the gross dishonesty and appalling tactics of the Center for Medical Progress. This group makes a mockery of its charitable status, and that status should be removed immediately. This group should be sued and the shameful politicians who stood by this group should be voted out of office. Disgusting.
2
Could you please not "crunch" the baby's head next time, I need some brain tissue. Here's a little something for your Lamborghini fund for your trouble.
6
Anti-abortion fanatics call themselves pro-life. They are pro-birth. Life is someone else's problem.
6
As someone who is pro-choice, hearing the PP director casually talk about crushing and crunching heads is enough for me draw the line and support defending this despicable organization. The idea that federal funds are not used for abortion (they are kept in a different bank account!) is preposterous, as clearly money is fungible. And for those extremists who shriek "women's reproductive freedom" without recognizing the acknowledging the moral ambiguity of the issue, you may want to look in the mirror and evaluate what you see.
2
The biggest group to fear is not the Republicans but the Democrats.
I was totally disgusted when those cowardly politicians caved in to the right wing and went along with defunding ACORN.
The Democrats have not shown much spine since — Shirley Sherrod being another example of panicked Democratic reaction — and have even let their leader twist in the wind. A lot of these weasels lost in the 2010, 2012 and 2014 elections. They deserved it.
I was totally disgusted when those cowardly politicians caved in to the right wing and went along with defunding ACORN.
The Democrats have not shown much spine since — Shirley Sherrod being another example of panicked Democratic reaction — and have even let their leader twist in the wind. A lot of these weasels lost in the 2010, 2012 and 2014 elections. They deserved it.
6
Planned Parenthood should start a campaign to capitalize on how they are helping familes and women with their "medical progress" helping the world and the USA to be a better place. I'm thinking lots of money would flow in. Maybe there is an ad agency that can help.
2
The United States is tragically lurching toward the type of fanatical theocracy that conservatives hate in other nations, and which Margaret Atwood chillingly described in "The Handmaid's Tale."
9
Too bad the arguments against abortion cannot stand on their own merits.
2
Ha Ha Ha! Planned Parenthood only accepts donations to cover transportation expenses of fetal tissue.
Well, I can also say that I work for a donation in the form of a salary. Once questionable acts begin to be explained by the use of extreme semantics, everything is game.
Soon we will see: "I did not kill him, I only pulled a trigger"
Well, I can also say that I work for a donation in the form of a salary. Once questionable acts begin to be explained by the use of extreme semantics, everything is game.
Soon we will see: "I did not kill him, I only pulled a trigger"
1
Former Obama White House staffer Michael Wear tweeted, “It should bother us as a society that we have use for aborted human organs, but not the baby that provides them.”
7
I’m generally pro-abortion. But what the Planned Parenthood employees say and the casualness with which they say it is revolting. I suspect there’s something deeper going on here and that somewhere, someone is making a profit from the organs that are extracted from these fetuses.
I think the Times would perform a larger public service by digging into this than they are in slamming the people who are shining light on what may be misbehavior. Whenever somebody tries to change the subject from the issue at hand of the person who raised the issue, alarm bells go off in my head.
I heard this question the other day: If the liver of a fetus has a dollar amount value in the kidneys have a dollar amount value, why doesn’t the entire intact fetus have a value?
I think the Times would perform a larger public service by digging into this than they are in slamming the people who are shining light on what may be misbehavior. Whenever somebody tries to change the subject from the issue at hand of the person who raised the issue, alarm bells go off in my head.
I heard this question the other day: If the liver of a fetus has a dollar amount value in the kidneys have a dollar amount value, why doesn’t the entire intact fetus have a value?
7
Its done all the time by liberal advocacy groups with nary a peep from the Times. In fact it often becomes fodder for a front page article. Why all of a sudden is this a campaign of deception? With each passing day. With each off the wall editorial, the Times loses more and more credibility.
3
The 2nd video clearly shows the doctor negotiating for how much they get for each body part. If it were to simply cover their costs, then they would already have a fee schedule in place. By negotiating and discussing how she needs more money herself, the doctor revealed it is about making money. Secondly, in both videos the doctors discuss altering abortions for the purpose of retrieving body parts, which is against the law. You can spin it any way you want, but what the videos show is clearly illegal actions on the part of Planned Parenthood.
2
There must be litigation with severe economic penalty. If deception and fraud are proven, those responsible must be subjected to the consequences. Politicians should be censored/reprimanded when exploiting these practices especially in this country, where we're to presume innocence until PROVEN guilty.
For the anti choice crowd, the end justifies the means. For pandering politicians, anything for a campaign contribution and a vote.
4
Republicans lying and swift boating, nothing new here
8
Take away their tax exempt status. Clearly there is no charitable work being done by this organization.
3
-Your attempt to spin this story in favor of planned parenthood is a disgrace. We have seen the video for ourselves and heard the planned parenthood officials express the prices charged and the techniques (e.g., "less chrunchy") used to carry out these nefarious activities. I hope you all get Lamborghinis from George Soros for Christmas.
6
It's incredible the denial as a sort of liberal defensive mechanism of journalists and readers about these videos. Why these articules don't mention that full footages were uploaded as well and they show the same? The fact that tjey are selling body parts, not "tissues", not only "shipping" costs?.
The tergiversation of the video contents is made up arguing that videos are "heavily cut" and short but there is no mention about the fact that there is full footage too showing the same.
The tergiversation of the video contents is made up arguing that videos are "heavily cut" and short but there is no mention about the fact that there is full footage too showing the same.
6
These deceptive indeed lying practices against Planned Parenthood and women's reproductive health are only extensions of other Republican practices. If you can't get your way with the truth then make it up to fit your view of the world. Why is it that Americans are so willing to buy into such deceptions as this, the pretense for the Iraq war and bogus Obama birth stories. Republicans believe what they want to believe and this is also also at the root of their bias against science in general.
5
Yes ... and the fetus is just a blob of tissue. Everyone knows that ultrasound machines are just "right wing traps."
1
Hang on here...these men fraudulantly applied for and received tax exempt status?
Throw them all in jail. It was dodging taxes that brought down Al Capone. Let's throwaway the key.
Throw them all in jail. It was dodging taxes that brought down Al Capone. Let's throwaway the key.
4
I wonder if Obama and the feckless Democrats are going to wimp out on Planned Parenthood like they did with the ACORN smear job?
2
Here in WI, Scott Walker and the Republican legislature took away all state funding for Planned Parenthood resulting in the closing of the only clinics in rural areas that screened for breast cancer and did pelvic exams for free. Then they passed the ALEC written law to force the remaining clinics to maintain hospital- like surgery conditions, effectively closing more clinics. All this because Walker said "we are concerned for the health of women".
No..... it is an evangelical crusade to prevent education and choice.....he might as well be wearing a Taliban beard!
No..... it is an evangelical crusade to prevent education and choice.....he might as well be wearing a Taliban beard!
6
I guess people see or don't see what they want to. I saw Planned Parenthood officials negotiating the sale of tissue from aborted fetuses.
6
I am pro choice - but I am HORRIFIED by these videos. It is not the act of collecting and allocating tissue. We all know medical research is unsavory and not for the weak of heart and it is a slippery slope. It is the callous, maliciousness of these women. The manipulation of the procedures so they can accommodate the buyers of the tissue. The disrespect shown for these aborted fetuses. This has to stop and if that means pulling funding, so be it.
9
And whose definition of "respect" should we use, yours? They're my tax dollars too. And I don't care how "callous" they are if the research is helping people.
1
"Affiliates," "Lunch meeting," "transporting the tissue," "between $30 and $100 specimen." Planned Parenthood: champion of fraus and frauleins everywhere.
2
Why isn't the IRS yanking their tax exempt status since they are not a charity but an investigative reporting outfit?
Oh, wait, that would give conservatives another excuse to claim they are targeted by government and yank more IRS funding so more legitimate tax payer phone calls go unanswered.
There was a hilarious headline in the Arizona newspaper yesterday that said the governor is moving to ban the illegal sale of fetal tissue.
Oh, wait, that would give conservatives another excuse to claim they are targeted by government and yank more IRS funding so more legitimate tax payer phone calls go unanswered.
There was a hilarious headline in the Arizona newspaper yesterday that said the governor is moving to ban the illegal sale of fetal tissue.
8
Reminds one of the "Sparrows" on Game of Thrones. Scary, fanatical, dishonest to the core and self righteous. One can imagine the reaction not he right wing news/opinion/infotainment complex had a liberal done this.
2
The full video is just as damning as the edited video. News flash -- those of us who are outraged by the videos do not care whether the organ harvesting is done "for profit." The fact that it is done at all is what is sickening and grotesque. And if the Editorial Board had more diverse viewpoints concerning the issue of abortion, it would actually understand that.
3
Why are opponents of these legal transactions not working to change the law concerning them, instead of setting up a straw non-profit whose only goal is to smear medical professionals in the hopes that Planned Parenthood will be de-funded? If anti-abortion fanatics were more interested in legitimate debate and lawmaking, and less devoted to violence, trickery, and phony "health of women" laws as a means to their end (banning all abortions), they would actually understand democracy.
2
If you find it sickening then don't get involved. However, if you or a loved one contract Parkinsons I hope you'll stick to your principles and decline any treatment which is derived from fetal tissue research.
1
It's funny that when Sandra Fluke went about to intentionally distort the facts at Georgetown Law school, most people here ignored the facts and cheered her on. The NY Times deserves a better editorial section.
4
Note to NYT: Curb your enthusiasm.
Many more videos are to be released.
PP is certainly involved in some unsavory transactions.
Dr. Frankenstein would be proud.
Many more videos are to be released.
PP is certainly involved in some unsavory transactions.
Dr. Frankenstein would be proud.
7
Unfortunately, The Times allows its editorial opinion to bleed into, and completely control, its news coverage of this issue. A news article that is all about shooting the messenger, together with unsubstantiated statements about Planned Parenthood's practices, is now what passes for news coverage. People with a political agenda on both sides are controlling the terms of the debate, when most Americans just want the facts. The Times is failing its readers and what used to be its journalistic raison d'etre by acting like a political partisan instead of, and to the exclusion of, being an impartial investigator and reporter of facts.
If the videos released by the Center for Medical Progress are wrong or misleading, then present us with the facts that would tend to prove that. Hit pieces on the people involved with the Center are not sufficient. If the videos don't accurately depict what they appear to depict, then what are the true facts?
If the videos released by the Center for Medical Progress are wrong or misleading, then present us with the facts that would tend to prove that. Hit pieces on the people involved with the Center are not sufficient. If the videos don't accurately depict what they appear to depict, then what are the true facts?
7
So, your article would be more credible if you showed even a slight amount of contrition. I understand clinics have the right to blah blah blah; but, wouldn't you agree this is a nationally sensitive issue and therefore requires some reassurance?
1
The perpetrators are not aiming at reassurance regarding this transactions. They are fanatics acting outside the law and the truth in the hope of closing down Planned Parenthood. Do you think these people would stop if the law were changed to prohibit the sale of fetal tissue? Not at all - they would go right back to the drawing board to cook up new extra-legal means to obtain their ends.
2
It's going to be a long, hot summer. Mr Daleiden has enough material to release a video every week. Die hard supporters of Planned Parenthood will certainly claim they are all "fake" or "heavily edited". But sometimes, the wind changes, and the sails need to be reset. Is abortion on demand truly a statement of women's reproductive rights? Or is it really a glaring testament to some women's utter lack of reproductive freedom? After all, pregnancy is decidedly not caused by drinking the water.
4
The connection between Christian fundamentalist in this country and Islamic and Jewish fundamentalists in the Middle East is uncanny. All three deny science, intellectualism, secularism and all three envision a world where girls are pregnant by 17 and remain so until they have had their requisite 8,9, 10 kids? The hypocrisy of the "small government" GOP is breathtaking. So Rand Paul has no problem with the KKK burning a cross on my lawn, but don't be a pregnant teenager in Mississippi/Texas (the the list of states is long) who 1. Never learned sex education; 2. Has no access to birth control; and 3. Cannot access an abortion. What happens to her future and her potential children's future? Enough of the misogyny.
2
The comments below are more than troubling. Yes, this debate is about abortion, which by the way, is legal. I understand that some are troubled by this and that there are many facets to the debate (life of the mother, viability of the fetus, rape, public funding). So, have your discussions and press your legislatures. That's one subject.
This video debate is something else. It is a lie. No one is selling organs or tissue for profit. The "investigating" group is a tax-exempt poltical organization, which itself is against the law and they should be in jail. To paraphrase Adlai Stevenson: If the anti-abortionists stop telling lies about us, we will stop telling the truth about them.
Thank you NY Times.
This video debate is something else. It is a lie. No one is selling organs or tissue for profit. The "investigating" group is a tax-exempt poltical organization, which itself is against the law and they should be in jail. To paraphrase Adlai Stevenson: If the anti-abortionists stop telling lies about us, we will stop telling the truth about them.
Thank you NY Times.
9
If a baby dies naturally, you can also donate their tissue for research and this doesn't seem to be controversial. I doubt that knowing you can donate a fetus' tissues is causing anyone to have an abortion. So the issue isn't with fetal tissue donation it's just that people don't like abortion.
5
I'm no fan of the people doing the expose, not even a little. But anyone can see what a weak defense this is. That business about recompensing costs is nonsense. Costs are costs: you don't negotiate about their amount, you just bill for them. And if your defense is nonsense, Planned Parenthood seems to have done exactly what they're accused of having done.
4
No one without a uterus should be able to comment here because their opinion is really irrelevant.
5
Joseph Goebbels was also adept at shaping communications to fit a political agenda. The parallels are rather blatant. A major difference is that Goebbels did not face a media environment that included an institution like the New York Times.
3
I suspect our species is too stupid to survive. Overpopulation is ruining the planet and the rest of the world is watching the US very carefully. With TV and modern communications the most remote village in Afghanistan or Yemen knows exactly how we are behaving and they are hardly likely to embrace birth control. They want to emulate us.
Women should be more afraid of Republicans than of ISIS. The continued assault on women's reproductive rights by Republican/Trump "crazies" is shameful. If the Republicans don't wake up and realize where the country is and where it's headed (and it sure doesn't look like they will), they will lose in a 2016 landslide to Hillary.
2
Umm, Trump is pro-abortion. Has been for years.
1
You mean there's a difference between Republicans and ISIS?
1
Our society’s decent into utter crassness continues apace: from the campaign to elect our next President (“Leader of the Free World”—really?) to the campaign to disempower any citizen that is not a white zealot religious conservative.
I’m not looking to the future with any optimism whatsoever—I look around and exploitation is all I see.
Pathetic.
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
I’m not looking to the future with any optimism whatsoever—I look around and exploitation is all I see.
Pathetic.
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
1
Sorry NY Times, but you are wrong on this one. I have both volunteered and donated to Planned Parenthood in the past, but I cannot support them any longer after seeing the callous way in which the people at the top talk about and think about what they are doing. Most disturbing of all is that they actually will modify surgical techniques in order to preserve tissue, organs, etc for "researchers." I thought doctors were supposed to make medical decisions based on what is best for the patient?
I'm not interested in having a pro-choice, pro-life debate here--I respect other points of view and don't feel the need to explain my own. But this video should disturb anyone who expects the medical profession to treat their patients and their responsibility with professionalism and dignity. Planned Parenthood won't get another dime from me.
I'm not interested in having a pro-choice, pro-life debate here--I respect other points of view and don't feel the need to explain my own. But this video should disturb anyone who expects the medical profession to treat their patients and their responsibility with professionalism and dignity. Planned Parenthood won't get another dime from me.
7
i guarantee that your claim about donating to, and working for, Planned Parenthood is one more lie.
Dr. Mengele were he still alive would be running Planned Parenthood and Goebbels would be head of the NYT editorial board.
4
Nice. Thanks for comparing an organization that struggles through its underfunding to provide health care to tens of millions of women to nazism.
1
So instead of asking questions about Planned Parenthood, we are going to use this opportunity to ask questions about the people who made the video. Edited for time or not; the people in the video said what they said. Who cares about the motivations of the people who made the videos?
4
Unless and until men can get pregnant, they have no business meddling in the abortion issue.
2
That is such a tired and flawed argument. Abortion is a topic of morality and conscience. Suggesting that men should not have an opinion on abortion is akin to saying Americans shouldn't have a say on genocide occurring in the Sudan. Think about what you're saying here. PP and the abortion industry is responsible for ending the life of 57 million babies over a 40 year time span. This recent news shows PP execs admitting to selling the parts of these children (profit or not, it's still disgusting). I cannot understand how many people on these comments can be so callous and vile. This is a disgusting practice and abortion itself should be viewed as one of society's biggest downfalls. PP itself was founded by a noted racist who wished for the extermination of the black race. Meanwhile, you guys are throwing a hissy fit over the Confederate Flag. Wake UP!
1
Unless and until Lazlo finds himself enslaved as a sex worker, he/she has no business meddling in the human trafficking issue.
1
"The Center for Medical Progress video campaign is a dishonest attempt to make legal, voluntary and potentially lifesaving tissue donations appear nefarious and illegal. Lawmakers responding by promoting their own anti-choice agenda are rewarding deception and putting women’s health and their constitutionally protected rights at risk." I agree.
3
"...being perfectly willing to undermine women’s reproductive rights any way they can...."
Including using the truth about abortion being employed as soulless, mechanized commerce in human life. The video is hideous. Planned Parenthood has no one to blame for this fiasco but itself.
Including using the truth about abortion being employed as soulless, mechanized commerce in human life. The video is hideous. Planned Parenthood has no one to blame for this fiasco but itself.
3
What this editorial neatly sidesteps is should these practices be legal. Selective procedures use to protect the desired organs or tissue is active engagement in a harvest. For profit or not is not the issue. Ends never justifiy means. The question should be debated.
2
I have been to Planned Parenthood many, many times. And I have never had an abortion.
I have gone for my Pap smear, for the HPV vaccine (against cervical cancer), for my Depo shot (birth control) etc. etc.
I have always received excellent care from kind people who understand women's health issues.
Attacks on Planned Parenthood are aimed at depriving women of quality, women-focused medical care for ALL their medical needs.
I have gone for my Pap smear, for the HPV vaccine (against cervical cancer), for my Depo shot (birth control) etc. etc.
I have always received excellent care from kind people who understand women's health issues.
Attacks on Planned Parenthood are aimed at depriving women of quality, women-focused medical care for ALL their medical needs.
10
Katie, the fact that PP provides other services that are valuable to women is not the issue. It's the abortion part of their practice that is controversial. The mafia partakes in legal business as well, but it doesn't hide the fact that they also participate in murder, extortion and racketeering.
You're also assuming that if PP were to be defunded that a) they wouldn't survive on their own (which they would - they rake it in financially) and b) another organization wouldn't provide similar services.
You're also assuming that if PP were to be defunded that a) they wouldn't survive on their own (which they would - they rake it in financially) and b) another organization wouldn't provide similar services.
1
So lets keep side stepping the issue of killing innocent humans so as to help research for others? How in the world can anybody see this as good let alone ignore the rights of an unborn child?
1
People say there is a war on women. Hogwash. This is a phrase that the left-wing liberals have invented and is completely false. I am a woman who is independent and have been treated fairly and respectfully by both men and women. I will tell you where the war lies -- there is a war on innocent human life. This video proves my point. Planned Parenthood's days are numbered and thank you Lila and David for showing the world what a fraud Planned Parenthood really is.
4
Well isn't it nice that things worked out for you. From what I gather from your posts, you're also a woman who is pretty well off financially.
I'm a woman who worked my way out of poverty and into the middle class. I've dealt with some great people, male and female, I've also dealt with sexual harassment, physical abuse and discrimination.
In my 20s and 30s, I voted for Republicans. I stopped when I realized that they didn't care about babies and they really don't care about women. Denying women equal pay and much needed health care is definitely a war on women. Thank your lucky stars that you can insulate yourselves from the harm these people do but don't be foolish enough to think that it isn't happening to people who aren't as fortunate as you are.
I'm a woman who worked my way out of poverty and into the middle class. I've dealt with some great people, male and female, I've also dealt with sexual harassment, physical abuse and discrimination.
In my 20s and 30s, I voted for Republicans. I stopped when I realized that they didn't care about babies and they really don't care about women. Denying women equal pay and much needed health care is definitely a war on women. Thank your lucky stars that you can insulate yourselves from the harm these people do but don't be foolish enough to think that it isn't happening to people who aren't as fortunate as you are.
1
And if you get your silly way, Planned Parenthood's ability to help millions of American women with OB-GYN care of every kind, as well as well-baby care, as well as counseling, as well as general medical services, will go away.
Congratulations: you must be very proud. My advice? go after those so-and-sos at the Red Cross next. Think of those billions of red blood cells, each holding all the DNA of a human being, floating helplessly, chilled to their little bones, helpless to stop being flushed into an alien body.
Congratulations: you must be very proud. My advice? go after those so-and-sos at the Red Cross next. Think of those billions of red blood cells, each holding all the DNA of a human being, floating helplessly, chilled to their little bones, helpless to stop being flushed into an alien body.
1
I think that if you are pro-choice, which I am, you must still think about the act of abortion. Most of us want to think about the fetus as a clump of cells. It is easier that way. When I saw the video, it became pretty real for me. This "clump of cells" has limbs, a head, a kidney, etc., and it is being crushed! Sometimes the truth isn't pretty, but we need to know what we are supporting. This took me back on my heels a bit. And if anyone saw it and it didn't, then I feel for you.
6
What is dishonest about the video? The tape doesn't lie. To quote liberal Kirsten Powers, "it should bother us as a society that we have use for aborted human organs, but not the baby that provides them."
The NY Times shows it's true colors through its own hypocritical editorializing.
The NY Times shows it's true colors through its own hypocritical editorializing.
6
If the tape's honest, why was it taken in secret by people who lied about who they were after creating a phony "medical," organization to help them lie better, then heavily edited, then passed on to right-wing politicians who immediately started campaigning on it?
planned parenthood's always published, and published openly, exactly what they do. If you're so right, and the thing's so openly wrong, how come you guys couldn't just go to a public meeting and ask a question?
Why'd you need to lie?
planned parenthood's always published, and published openly, exactly what they do. If you're so right, and the thing's so openly wrong, how come you guys couldn't just go to a public meeting and ask a question?
Why'd you need to lie?
1
No one put words into the mouths of those doctors. Congress requested that Dr. Nucatela appear before it to give her side of this story. Not only did the doctor decline but according to Planned Parenthood, she is now seeking counsel. If the Planned Parenthood doctors have nothing to hide, why don't they voluntarily appear before Congress and clear the air in public hearings? And why doesn't the NYT editorial board support public hearings on this issue?
4
This just in: the Times also opposes Joe McCarthy, the Salem witch trials, and the Inquisition.
Sorry. libs; waddya gonna do?
Sorry. libs; waddya gonna do?
1
Why would the Doctor want to appear before a witch hunt? Besides, this is a regulated practice. Why should we have public hearings on existing regulations?Congress wrote them. Several republican members of Congress were aware of this sting before it hit the news. Perhaps those members of Congress should be questioned about their involvement in this hit job.
2
Ah, it's the old "if you have nothing to hide" ploy. If Congress asked me to appear about anything - anything! - I would lawyer up and sit tight, even if I were descended from archangels. Surely you cannot be this naive.
1
Planned Parenthood is an exceptional organization.
It is sad to see deceptive practices funded by deep-pocketed right wing nefarious types bring them down. What is the world coming to?
Any way to stop these people?
It is sad to see deceptive practices funded by deep-pocketed right wing nefarious types bring them down. What is the world coming to?
Any way to stop these people?
1
I think it is time for Planned Parenthood to spin off their abortion business. As anyone who has worked in a business or non-profit knows, money is fungible. The taxpayer dollars that go to the good works that the group does in "women's health" frees up money that can then be used to subsidize abortions.
One solution: spin off the abortion clinics. Let them self-fund with private donations -- no taxpayer money -- and fees (though, hopefully, not from selling fetal body parts). It makes fund raising much easier for the legacy group, and assuages taxpayers like me who do not want to pay for abortions.
One solution: spin off the abortion clinics. Let them self-fund with private donations -- no taxpayer money -- and fees (though, hopefully, not from selling fetal body parts). It makes fund raising much easier for the legacy group, and assuages taxpayers like me who do not want to pay for abortions.
9
I've often wondered why this hasn't happened sooner. For that matter, if the right cares so much about babies, why aren't they funding pre-natal and infant medical facilities?
Let's also do away with letting anybody from Cuba stay here, and spin off any and all funding you get from taxpayers.
i don't wanna have to kick in one thin dime.
i don't wanna have to kick in one thin dime.
Thank you, Alonzo! You're exactly right about money being fungible and the more I hear abortion supporters citing the Hyde Amendment, the more I want to beat them over the proverbial head with the point you've just made.
Can't they be taken to court for fraudulent statements? They have edited a video to show it says something it doesn't say and then distributed it. Seems like there should be a law against it.
7
Maybe Congress should also launch an investigation of the Center for Medical Progress, how it got its tax exemption, where it spends its money, and who funds it. From this account of its activities, it's unclear if this organization is a shell.
6
Absolutely - let's shoot the messenger. Punish them as an example to others.
Really? Deception? What's deceiving is building a profit making operation out of a so-called "compassionate" service. (Can't wait for that sports car huh?). This talk about making abortions less "crunchy" make you a little uncomfortable? Good.
5
If you use the euphemism "reproductive rights" one more time, I will puke. You commit this deception and then complain about the other view using deception! You do know, do you not, what that constitutes? Yes, you are hypocrites. You support and love the baby killers selling of dead baby parts. What surprise is that? None at all.
11
Reproductive rights.
1
"Abortion isn't right, but it shouldn't be illegal."
However, what these folks were doing was clearly illegal. Investigations should be conducted to see if the illegality is at the personal or organizational level.
Then the right action can be taken.
However, what these folks were doing was clearly illegal. Investigations should be conducted to see if the illegality is at the personal or organizational level.
Then the right action can be taken.
7
How did these clowns get tax exempt status? That's the real scandal. Planned Parenthood deserves even more funding. They do great work.
37
You claim that the video purports to show Planned Parenthood "illegally sells" aborted tissue. I disagree. Rather, it shows Planned Parenthood selling aborted tissue. Cecile Richards responded to the video by asserting that Planned Parenthood does not profit from selling aborted tissue. Talk about misleading, Clinton-esque language. The instant I read her statement, I realized she was admitting to the sale aborted tissue, albeit profitless.
7
All of which is perfectly legal and, as the editorial states, is vital for important medical research.
PS - All of us should become organ donors.
PS - All of us should become organ donors.
1
so how was it that she was suggesting she would be able to buy a Lamborghini from these profitless tissue sales?
1
By your reasoning nonprofits simply do not exist if lack of profit has nothing to do with selling. Why shouldn't Planned Parenthood cover their costs when donating women ask for this service? Should they take money from others to do it? The costs are real.
Give it up Times. You won't get by telling ppl what it does not show.
what you don't want to do is ignore the fact that abortion and organ harvesting procedures are ghastly inhuman things.
Do you disagree?
what you don't want to do is ignore the fact that abortion and organ harvesting procedures are ghastly inhuman things.
Do you disagree?
14
Ken.
I can't speak for the Times but I'll weigh in as a citizen and a father. I donate to Planned Parenthood and have for years because of all the women I know who have received free or lower cost health care over many decades. I hate the ugly, deceptive tactics of these phony groups like Center for Medical Progress. They do not care about women, children, fetuses, healthcare, or anything but money and a very sick notoriety. I sure encourage family and friends to donate to PP for all the good they do.
I can't speak for the Times but I'll weigh in as a citizen and a father. I donate to Planned Parenthood and have for years because of all the women I know who have received free or lower cost health care over many decades. I hate the ugly, deceptive tactics of these phony groups like Center for Medical Progress. They do not care about women, children, fetuses, healthcare, or anything but money and a very sick notoriety. I sure encourage family and friends to donate to PP for all the good they do.
1
Ken, you may not be aware that millions of people have volunteered to have their organs harvested upon their deaths. Do you think that heart transplants are ghastly inhuman things?
2
Organ harvesting is a ghastly thing? No. It is life affirming.
I am an organ doner. Should I die while healthy enough for someone else to receive a benefit from the body I leave behind, they are welcome to any part of my earthly shell. When I aborted a non viable fetus that threatened my life, I donated that too.
That's pro life.
I am an organ doner. Should I die while healthy enough for someone else to receive a benefit from the body I leave behind, they are welcome to any part of my earthly shell. When I aborted a non viable fetus that threatened my life, I donated that too.
That's pro life.
2
Did the Center for Medical Progress provide false information on its application to the IRS for tax exempt status? If so, were any laws broken?
16
Listening to a radio show yesterday where two people on opposite sides of this issue debated this issue. One of them was a the lady doctor who got very angry in her defense of these videos and the practices that they exposed. She yelled about the videos "being chopped up!". It occurred to me that she was more upset about the videos being chopped up than she was these babies.
16
The doctor was obviously pro choice. There was no baby to worry about.
Many of us are quite bothered when religious fanatics tell lies in order to take away our basic rights.
Sorry.
Sorry.
1
Both the video and the back lash seem to be preaching to the choir.
3
Didn't the factory farm industry ban secret videos of there operations, because it made them look bad? Those videos were telling the truth, yet our lawmakers rush to save that industry.
14
My local paper, The Sun Sentinel, is printing the deceptive video as journalistic fact. The damage is done. Swift boating is now the norm. The Center for Medical Progress is so Orwellian that I almost choked on my coffee.
35
While 19, I was an active Evangelical Christian who was also a virgin.
I was having physical pain, however, and new to a city without friends, unemployed and financially broke. Planned Parenthood was the place I turned to for help and they "delivered" beyond my wildest dreams.
Planned Parenthood found a cyst the size of a grapefruit that fatal day when I was 19. They gave me medication to treat it and within 2 months, the cyst was gone!
I am grateful for the FREE medical care I received from them when I needed it.
I was having physical pain, however, and new to a city without friends, unemployed and financially broke. Planned Parenthood was the place I turned to for help and they "delivered" beyond my wildest dreams.
Planned Parenthood found a cyst the size of a grapefruit that fatal day when I was 19. They gave me medication to treat it and within 2 months, the cyst was gone!
I am grateful for the FREE medical care I received from them when I needed it.
63
And Dolly, what does THIS have to do with the fact that PP murders babies? Post Hoc ergo Proctor Hoc faulty logic....
1
This is another good reason to separate the good work Planned Parenthood does from the evil business of killing people with livers and hearts.
Not to understate your medical issue, but it was FREE only to you. A bunch of others paid it for you. So be thankful for the charity and do not use it as an argument.
1
If the government does choose to defund Planned Parenthood, the result will be more votes for right wing legislators. Who advocate wars of choice. Who can't get enough guns into the hands of anyone who wants them. Who try to prevent access to health care for those who don't have enough money in their pockets. Who denigrate poor people for their poverty and whine when they have more children.
Please, Senator Rand and others. Tell us exactly what it is you don't like about abortion services, because it quite obviously has nothing to do with protecting life.
Please, Senator Rand and others. Tell us exactly what it is you don't like about abortion services, because it quite obviously has nothing to do with protecting life.
23
The NYT editorial board jumps right into the fray and does exactly what it claims Planned Parenthood opponents do, that is, rush to judgment without taking the time to collect ALL the facts and listen to ALL involved in this particular incident. You paint yourselves, once again, as unabashed supporters of every single aspect of Planned Parenthood activities without distinction. You are their biggest free advertiser, and you do so regularly. There is another opinion here, substantive and based on sound reasonable thinking that does not disregard a woman's reproductive rights but rather looks too at the rights of this person being formed in that woman's womb in a different light than you do. The comments on that video, in or out of context, reveal a callous disregard for that life, and no amount of twisting on your part can make that go away.
23
You just said that Planned Parenthood opponents rush to judgment as unabashed supporters of advertising, and that they disregard a woman's reproductive rights and reveal a callous disregard for life.
Shame on you.
See what I did there?
Shame on you.
See what I did there?
1
Did you not read this? Or is it just that you do not believe it? And please tell me by a rational person would be opposed to medical research?
"Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation, which requires the clear consent of the patient. Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue"
Is it your belief that every human cell is sacred? If so,I hope you remember to give your fingernails a proper burial.
"Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation, which requires the clear consent of the patient. Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue"
Is it your belief that every human cell is sacred? If so,I hope you remember to give your fingernails a proper burial.
What you're advocating does indeed "disregard a woman's reproductive rights."
1
The very fact that the Times has decided to back Planned parenthood speaks volumes about the Times. Obviously Far left news.
9
Welcome to the far left, Mr Garcia, where the world is round.
Yeah, that The Times--coming out against lying, religious fanaticism, and political pandering.
How dare they.
How dare they.
1
John,
No, they are obviously more concerned with women's health access than the plethora of Far Right politicians and others who do not give a fig about health care for people.
No, they are obviously more concerned with women's health access than the plethora of Far Right politicians and others who do not give a fig about health care for people.
1
The Times, or maybe The Onion, should do an article that lists all these fake GOP organizations like "Center for Medical Progress" whose names are by definition and purposely a lie. Calling themselves "conservative" or "Christian" is another lie: they are the opposite.
19
Yet another reminder that the candidates currently running for president of your country will say anything, do anything to win votes. They are moral prostitutes of the lowest kind and are pathologically immune to shame.
26
You must be talking about Hillary Clinton, right?
The Times does a disservice by allowing comments here from people whose claims are as purposefully distorted and vile as are those of the people who made these videos. Lies should not be tolerated in public discourse. It's not "he said, she said" when one of the sides is comprised wholly of immoral liars. There's nothing about free speech that requires private companies to relay any of these lies without framing them as such. As an investigative paper committed to truth, the Times needs to keep the trolls out of this comments section, or else put some variation of black-box warning around their unhealthy spew.
12
That seems to be the root of the problem. In America, it's very hard to sue for defamation. The courts have made lying legal.
Beth, when one is losing an argument one tries to shut the other side down.
...The edited and unedited videos were realeased at the same time, and both clearly show that PP is involved in illegal, or at least immoral, organ selling. No way to spin that.
15
How do you even get that? I see a medical professional -a doctor - calmly discussing fetal tissue donations. Maybe not the nicest descriptions during a lunchtime meeting but doctors don't deal with the "ick" factor. Nothing immoral or illegal about it, unless you hold medical research to be such, in which case please enjoy your plagues and high birth mortality rates.
119
The religious "dirty tricks" division of Nixon Watergate scoundrel fame keeps on working its' dark deeds dragging GOP self aggrandizing "great leader wanna be" politicians along with them into inquisition mentality. Campaigns to crush planned parenthood are built on religious beliefs that sex has to always be an attempt to produce pregnancy. This concept originated in dark age Christian Church teachings combating huge population losses caused by disease-plagues and war. Women were essentially breeding chattels then, and the return to "religious principals of the times of our founding fathers" would restore women to this sad condition. Misplaced faith in dark age inquisition politics has ruined the GOP, and may ruin the country. Sharia law from a "Christian" is no better than from ISIS. The "religious principled" GOP/SCOTUS behavior is a distinction without a difference.
15
Margaret Sanger, the founding member of PP (or its precursors) was a rabid racist and a believer in eugenics. Her main motivation in founding the organization was to suppress the out of control birth breeding rates in the "lesser" races. She has succeeded spectacularly.
9
Thanks for one more example of shotgunning lies and half-truths at the page.
1
The truth of the matter is that the right wing theocrates not only seek to ram their religious dogmas down everybody elses’ throats they want to criminalize what has been held to be a constitutional right.
These people despise women and want to punish they for having sex while demanding small government and they don’t care how it is done. It is shocking to see how these right wingers have neither moral brakes or the ability to feel shame. They are determined to have their way by any means necessary and lies, slander and fakkery are necessary for what these folks are selling which is freedom - for some and a police state for others.
These people despise women and want to punish they for having sex while demanding small government and they don’t care how it is done. It is shocking to see how these right wingers have neither moral brakes or the ability to feel shame. They are determined to have their way by any means necessary and lies, slander and fakkery are necessary for what these folks are selling which is freedom - for some and a police state for others.
17
Hmm. That is an interesting spin. Have as much sex as you want, just don't expect taxpayers to pay for the consequences.
1
Right-wingers consider undercover videos of Planned Parenthood to be perfectly justifiable. Meanwhile, they back laws criminalizing undercover videos of slaughterhouses and the general routine abuse of farm animals. They are an "ends justify the means" group with such a passionate commitment to the fetus that they have nothing left over for real human beings and real animals. In terms of rigidity, they are not all that different from Maoists.
4
It's interesting that the NYT Picks selections, currently 11, present one comment that objectively states that nearly anyone, republican or democrat, who listens to the very cavalier description by the doctor of "adjusting" the abortion technique to crush the head and preserve the desired parts whole will be troubled. The other 10 NYT Picks are anti- republican posts. Hmmmm. Thanks for the objectivity, NYT.
7
Republicans used to be supporters of Planned Parenthood at one time (see Barbara Bush) but since the entire party has taken a hard right you see nothing but constant harassment.
12
a sting operation with edited footage doctored to make it's targets appear to say stuff that they aren't. and that's good enough for GOP candidates running for the White House? very reassuring.
13
Nothing new. More deception and lying by Republican males to control women and exert power over them by denying medical care.
Why would any reasonable and sane American female vote for any Republican candidate?
Why would any reasonable and sane American female vote for any Republican candidate?
13
what exactly is a sane and reasonable American female?
So why don't either of the NY Times news stories by Jackie Calmes discuss the falsehoods in the Planned Parenthood video editing? Someone who reads only the news sections would have no idea that the videos are misleading, only that "On Tuesday, for a second time in two weeks, a video appeared online showing a Planned Parenthood official in California discussing over lunch the price of providing fetal parts to a man and woman who are never shown on camera, but who are posing as buyers from a firm that procures tissue for medical researchers. " rebutted only with "Planned Parenthood condemned the scam for deceptively characterizing its handling fees to cover expenses, which are legal, as illegal profiteering."
Whether the editing distorts the content is a factual question, not opinion, and the false equivalence this "news" article reverts to is sloppy and inept journalism. Here the NY Times extends its history of balancing centrist comment on it's editorial pages with rightwing opinion pieces in its news sections, continuing the tradition set by the Judy Miller.
Whether the editing distorts the content is a factual question, not opinion, and the false equivalence this "news" article reverts to is sloppy and inept journalism. Here the NY Times extends its history of balancing centrist comment on it's editorial pages with rightwing opinion pieces in its news sections, continuing the tradition set by the Judy Miller.
13
I understand Planned Parenthood does a lot of good but this is appalling and should absolutely be investigated. If you don't get sick to your stomach watching those videos then you have been brainwashed.
96
Do you realize that the videos have reportedly been edited in a misleading way? Or are you buying into the hype?
4
You mean the deceptively edited video? What makes me sick to my stomach is this dishonest attack on women's health.
4
Someone who does not share your perspective has not been brainwashed. The arrogance of your comment is astonishing.
2
ACORN all over again. They can't win with facts, so they lie. Unfortunately American voters are too distracted, lazy and of limited intellect to be able to search for the truth (its out there) themselves.
26
It's not just American voters. Democratic politicians, too, are up to their eyeballs in this. Most of them are not only too craven to stand up for the truth, they generally panic when the right mounts a propaganda campaign and--following the advice of their handlers--instead of fighting for what's right they try to outscream the liars, to outconservative the conservatives, to outreact the reactionaries.
It's what they did with ACORN (by the way, it's also what they did with Bush/Cheney's launch of the war in Iraq, with truly lethal consequences).
ACORN would never have been defunded if Congressional Democrats had shown the fundamental courage to stand up against the Big Lie and expose the tactics of the right.
Sadly, as this article makes plain, once again Democrats are too frightened of the press and the pundits to take a stand: which pretty much means Planned Parenthood is on its own.
It's what they did with ACORN (by the way, it's also what they did with Bush/Cheney's launch of the war in Iraq, with truly lethal consequences).
ACORN would never have been defunded if Congressional Democrats had shown the fundamental courage to stand up against the Big Lie and expose the tactics of the right.
Sadly, as this article makes plain, once again Democrats are too frightened of the press and the pundits to take a stand: which pretty much means Planned Parenthood is on its own.
Key difference: Planned Parenthood is much more valued by Americans than ACORN was. The Republican attacks will backfire.
1
As you read through the comments, all you see are anti-abortionists and pro-choicers rallying to their long-held positions. We're all angry, but angry within our current view on abortion. Which, frankly, is a relief; the true disaster in all this (only in my opinion of course) would be seeing a genuine shift in opinion in favor of further interfering with women's reproductive rights.
Nothing in the videos makes me feel any differently about the work Planned Parenthood does. A cleverly-planned sting operation was always going to embarrass the organization; it's a trick you could successfully pull on anyone or any organization.
I'm typing this, sitting safely in my investment bank office, all the time being conscious how courageous a Planned Parenthood doctor has to be to continue to provide abortion access to women. Yes, Dr. Nucatola kind of screwed up, but let's face it, it's a just branding and perception issue. She continues to be hero in my mind, a member of a small group of people who signed up for a tough (and often dangerous) life because of their desire to improve women's health.
Nothing in the videos makes me feel any differently about the work Planned Parenthood does. A cleverly-planned sting operation was always going to embarrass the organization; it's a trick you could successfully pull on anyone or any organization.
I'm typing this, sitting safely in my investment bank office, all the time being conscious how courageous a Planned Parenthood doctor has to be to continue to provide abortion access to women. Yes, Dr. Nucatola kind of screwed up, but let's face it, it's a just branding and perception issue. She continues to be hero in my mind, a member of a small group of people who signed up for a tough (and often dangerous) life because of their desire to improve women's health.
46
How'd SHE "screw up?" Dr. Nucatola got spied on and had a recording of what she said edited to tell flat-out, simple lies.
And the creeps who did the lying did so knowingly, to push for actions they couldn't get honestly.
And the creeps who did the lying did so knowingly, to push for actions they couldn't get honestly.
1
The sting and video were not done for the left - they were done to radicalize the right. The conservative dog whistle narrative that will overwhelm the 2016 election is liberals are evil baby killers. Phelim McAleer's film about abortionist Kermit Gosnell will stoke the narrative in a way I think we can not yet understand the power of. It comes out in January.
1
as an "investment banker" are you making profit in the ventures of PP? Your defense of this outfit sure makes it seem so.
1
Where may I ask are the voices of the Nobel Laureates, academic researchers, university medical centers, government regulated organ procurement agencies, patient advocacy organizations, HHS, the NIH, all of whom know that receiving reimbursement for reasonable costs associated with all types of organ donation is legal and sensible? Where are those voices who are engaged in similar activities to cure and prevent diseases? The attack on PPFA is not just an attack on reproductive health; it is also an attack on fetal and organ research. The scientific establishment must not be cowardly or think that because the first line of attack is presumably abortion it is not in the end an attack on science. It is not up to women to stand alone in defending science and medical research; the medical community must speak out as well. More than PPFA funding is at stake.
406
Where in the second video do you see anything remotely akin to "reasonable" costs associated with organ donation? The Planned Parenthood representative was very clearly witnessed (heard and seen!) on the video BARTERING for how much money they could get for various organs and/or their parts! The university medical centers, etc. that you incorrectly indicate do the same thing for the same "reasonable" costs, do NOT do the same thing! The receive organs from donors with written authorization; these donors are either living and willing to give up a non-essential organ, or they have died and they, or their families, have provided legally acceptable written authorizations. Can you name a single academic or medical institution in the United States that kills in the name of research? What Planned Parenthood is doing is unethical, hypocritical, and in some instances illegal. In a supposedly civilized nation, these doings are nothing short of barbaric.
Here, here! As a scientist, I know first hand how difficult and acrimonious this conversation can be. But instead of cowering and ignoring the very real attack on the scientific establishment, it is imperative that we speak up and speak out. I wish there were more scientists with the courage to do this.
1
I find if deplorable but unsurprising that NYT is so selective in its pursuit of the truth in reporting. Aside from the fact that people find the use of human fetuses for research offensive, there are specific legal statutes that are being violated by PP. These were put in place not to satisfy "fetus lovers" but, to protect the rights of the mother. if there is deception here it is by PP who purport to be protecting women's reproductive rights. Modifying an abortion procedure specifically for the collection of research samples is illegal under 42 US § 289g–1 - Research on transplantation of fetal tissue: "no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue". PP is not above the law and should be held to account like any other quality health care provider that they claim to be.
17
And if Planned Parenthood had done any of that--which they didn't--you might have a point.
As it is, you're simply aiding and abetting lying.
As it is, you're simply aiding and abetting lying.
The edited video is clearly a tainted source of information and you would have to look at the whole video in context, not a sound bite. Let's see the whole thing, the phony "Medical" tax exempt group, everyone in front of Congress.
No research is being done on fetuses. Tissue that would otherwise be thrown into the medical waste bin is instead donated to promote scientific research and the creation of treatments to horrible diseases such as Parkinson's. Your comment is as uninformed as it is abhorrent. These donations save lives, and whether or not there is a donation won't change the fact that an abortion was going to take place. It's just what happens to the removed tissue. Frankly, I think the default should be donation rather than disposal.
1
As far as the central issue is concerned, I have always said that I will support pro life the minute all pro lifers agree, in a binding legal contract format, to support every single unwanted child that they force into this already overcrowded world. (Pause for cricket cheep and deafening silence on the right). That said, even allowing for heavy handed and unfair editing, the verbal vomit exiting Dr. Nucatola's mouth is astonishing. It would be astonishing even if it were coming from an $8 an hour planned parenthood clerk's mouth after being plied with alcohol for several hours, but the senior director for medical services? A Lamborghini, really? Nucatola has to go, with extreme prejudice.
6
Smear King Joseph McCarthy must be chuckling from deep down in his grave. Once again the far right wing of the conservative movement demonstrates just how committed they are to truth.
Do our Republican friends not see the failure of such activities against women's rights? Yes, they do see and they don't care about women. They car about control and domination.
When will the average voter who fancies themselves "value" voters see the connect between forcing women to have no choices, the poverty of the children then produced, and a declining society where conservatives say "make them have the babies," but then do nothing for the welfare of those born. Unwanted children, unfunded and supportive environments for
those children create many and probably most of societies problems which conservative deny they had any part in creating.
Could we force these politicians who are in full war mode against women's rights to adopt and raise the children of their policies? No! It probably would be no better for those children than the fate that awaits many of them because of the policies that have created them.
Do our Republican friends not see the failure of such activities against women's rights? Yes, they do see and they don't care about women. They car about control and domination.
When will the average voter who fancies themselves "value" voters see the connect between forcing women to have no choices, the poverty of the children then produced, and a declining society where conservatives say "make them have the babies," but then do nothing for the welfare of those born. Unwanted children, unfunded and supportive environments for
those children create many and probably most of societies problems which conservative deny they had any part in creating.
Could we force these politicians who are in full war mode against women's rights to adopt and raise the children of their policies? No! It probably would be no better for those children than the fate that awaits many of them because of the policies that have created them.
10
When the Times starts an article with such an obviously false premise -- that the video purported to show the illegal harvesting and sale of organs -- its sophomoric. Do you think nobody notices the false premise they then try to tear down. The video "purported" nothing. It showed that Planned Parenthood's senior staff is conscious of the value to the body parts and actually has procedures to effect the better harvesting of organs and tissue that they then sell to companies. Since Planned Parenthood receives $500,000,000 each and every year from our tax dollars, should they really need to sell body parts? Should they be selling body parts at all?
Planned Parenthood supposedly exists simply to help women with among other things, abortions. Just perform the "medical procedure" and move on. If they don't have enough funds, ask Congress or donors for more, but don't ever sell body parts. The practices described in the full and edited videos would stop in a heart beat if they were required to donate body parts and tissue.
The seconde video has a PP staffer negotiating prices and talking about how she wants a Lamborghini. While I'd like to assume that none of the money from the sale goes to any staffer or benefits them through higher wages or bonuses or whatever, it sounds like they are used car salesmen trying to squeeze the last dollar out of the deal.
Planned Parenthood supposedly exists simply to help women with among other things, abortions. Just perform the "medical procedure" and move on. If they don't have enough funds, ask Congress or donors for more, but don't ever sell body parts. The practices described in the full and edited videos would stop in a heart beat if they were required to donate body parts and tissue.
The seconde video has a PP staffer negotiating prices and talking about how she wants a Lamborghini. While I'd like to assume that none of the money from the sale goes to any staffer or benefits them through higher wages or bonuses or whatever, it sounds like they are used car salesmen trying to squeeze the last dollar out of the deal.
10
Once again, anti-abortion activism enjoys support and financing not only in the highest levels of government, but also from the phenomenal grassroots energy on the ground. Unfortunately, there's been little indication that the reproductive rights movement is up to the challenge. I can only hope that a victory for Mrs Clinton will help ensure a reasonable Supreme Court.
9
A legal question will arise about whether or not Planned Parenthood's conduct shows only that they sought reimbursement for costs associated with the tissue. Of course, this requires detailed analysis, but on its face, it does not appear as though Planned Parenthood was seeking reimbursement; if it were, it'd have simply said in the second video 'we expect to be reimbursed for the following costs:...', much as everyone does when asking a company to reimburse taxi fare or the like. Instead, the Planned Parenthood representative wanted to consult with others, and wanted the other party to come up with a price first, because that's usually better for the other party in a 'negotiation'. Not precisely want you expect from someone wanting the costs of a donation to be covered.
3
If this is a cost to cover legit expenses (storage, proper packing, ice), then there would be a simple price list and every company would pay the same modest cost.
Why "negotiate" at all?
Why "negotiate" at all?
1
Abortion is a legitimate option for a pregnant woman. The Extremism thinking of the likes of Rand Paul is not "Exceptionalism." And it is a sign that Mr. Paul is not the kind of thinker that would make an effective President.
We need a President who is able to make distinctions in important ideas, not one who would throw the baby out with the bath water. The distintion that makes a difference is the difference between abortion and sales of parts without compensation to the mother.
There will always be scabs trying to make a profit off of someone elses property. For example, Mr. Paul is trying to get elected President off of fetal tissue issues. How sick is that?
We need a President who is able to make distinctions in important ideas, not one who would throw the baby out with the bath water. The distintion that makes a difference is the difference between abortion and sales of parts without compensation to the mother.
There will always be scabs trying to make a profit off of someone elses property. For example, Mr. Paul is trying to get elected President off of fetal tissue issues. How sick is that?
3
Anyone truly interested in reducing the number of abortions women seek need to donate to Planned Parenthood since the most frequent reason for abortions are unplanned pregnancies. Parenthood should be planned by adults to want children and are ready emotionally and financially to care for them.
Excellent sex education for children, accessible health care for everyone, available contraception for those who want it and free day care for the young children of parents who need it will do more to reduce the number of abortions than all the aggressive and offensive street demonstrations in front of clinics and the questionable tactics used to put clinics out of business.
We need more Planned Parenthoods not fewer.
Excellent sex education for children, accessible health care for everyone, available contraception for those who want it and free day care for the young children of parents who need it will do more to reduce the number of abortions than all the aggressive and offensive street demonstrations in front of clinics and the questionable tactics used to put clinics out of business.
We need more Planned Parenthoods not fewer.
28
Deceit is the underpinning of all the opponents of womens' reproductive freedom. They cannot win on the real issue of choice so they must manufacture lies along with their usual hysteria. The tide has been turning against them for years so their tactics become increasingly mercenary. How ironic that the republican party, so intent on depriving women of their freedom, also typically would deprive children of after school programs, the poor of food stamps, and all of us of gun violence. Republicans like to hold themselves aloft as a paradigm of morality. They are living a lie and everyone knows it.
11
In 1973, in the United States of America, it was decided, by the Supreme Court of the United States, that pregnant women have the right to "abort", meaning to stop the natural progression to viability, the development of the child, within their womb, by "killing", the living child within their womb.
This law of the land is binding, until such time as another Supreme Court, decides it is not. Therein is the conundrum; how is it possible for a group of nine justices, to rule whether some act is legal, and from time to time, in the history of nations, rule it may be illegal.
Each and everyone of us has to live with the decisions we make.
This law of the land is binding, until such time as another Supreme Court, decides it is not. Therein is the conundrum; how is it possible for a group of nine justices, to rule whether some act is legal, and from time to time, in the history of nations, rule it may be illegal.
Each and everyone of us has to live with the decisions we make.
1
This is what we women get for sitting on our laurels and trusting the work and passion of Gloria Steinem and others who have fought for our rights would be long lasting, like forever.
Where have the checks and balances been? How many of us have tried to make sure our reproductive rights would belong to us, when and where? Where have we been, including myself? Did we trust men, religion, legislators, courts, other women who are way off conservative that we would be able to do with our bodies what we wanted - like forever?
While we have been sleeping soundly the anti abortion movement has gained
deadly momentum and now we are left with a nasty giant. They have used their legislative tools to bring on court action like abortion clinics need to have the same surgical standards and architecture as outpatient surgery centers who perform much more dangerous and technical surgeries. They have used their legislative tools to bring on court action to mandate physicians who perform abortions to have admitting privileges within certain time frames and distances of hospital centers. Both of these pieces of legislation are ridiculous, unnecessary, and simply anti abortion ploys.
So now they start in on fetal parts. (the doctor who delivered my first child had the name Daleiden - I wonder if it is any relation). hmm.
Women need to team together once again and they need to do it now.
Enough is enough. These are our reproductive rights - not any guy named Daleiden.
Where have the checks and balances been? How many of us have tried to make sure our reproductive rights would belong to us, when and where? Where have we been, including myself? Did we trust men, religion, legislators, courts, other women who are way off conservative that we would be able to do with our bodies what we wanted - like forever?
While we have been sleeping soundly the anti abortion movement has gained
deadly momentum and now we are left with a nasty giant. They have used their legislative tools to bring on court action like abortion clinics need to have the same surgical standards and architecture as outpatient surgery centers who perform much more dangerous and technical surgeries. They have used their legislative tools to bring on court action to mandate physicians who perform abortions to have admitting privileges within certain time frames and distances of hospital centers. Both of these pieces of legislation are ridiculous, unnecessary, and simply anti abortion ploys.
So now they start in on fetal parts. (the doctor who delivered my first child had the name Daleiden - I wonder if it is any relation). hmm.
Women need to team together once again and they need to do it now.
Enough is enough. These are our reproductive rights - not any guy named Daleiden.
16
Reproductive rights. What an interesting term that describes the only medical procedure that requires no participation in anything: no foreknowledge, no reasons, no permissions, no age limit. One cannot even get body piercing so easily. And what about the "fetus"? The same fetus that may require lots of money for survival - if it is wanted. Everyone knows Planned Parenthood's first priority is abortion and its federal funding makes sure that can happen by paying for other services. Perhaps the idea that it passes fetal tissue anywhere is disturbing, along with so many other stories about it. Maybe folks just don't like it and its deliberate deceptions. America is very uncomfortable with abortion and with those who celebrate it and enthuse over it. Sorry, but that is the reality. It speaks to the goodness of America, not its anti-feminist bigotry. It speaks to its remaining reverence for life and hope and a chance to be. What, really, does abortion speak to?
7
Planned Parenthood's mantra is "Every child a wanted child." To that end they provide a wide range of contraception choices. I took advantage of this when I needed it, and it was on a "sliding scale" which I could afford. There is going to be abortion, on some scale, for a long as there is humanity. It speaks to the fact that humans have choices, and the responsibility to make them. Anyone who disapproves of abortion is certainly free not to have one.
Your demand to snoop onto everybody's private life and tell women what to do?
1
Well, it speaks to, uh, reproductive rights, a form of freedom, as opposed to compulsion. I'm sorry you're not into that.
1
Undercover investigations always rely on deception, whether conducted by the government, newspapers, private investigators or advocacy groups like the Center for Medical Progress. If, indeed, this group falsely edited a tape to make it seem that Planned Parenthood had acted illegally. that was reprehensible. I'm an abortion rights advocate. Nonetheless, the fact that the trade in fetal organs is discussed over wine and dinner is distasteful to me to say the least. I'm an organ donor and I don't have in mind my organs being the subject of casual dinner conversation. There is a gravity to this constructive but sensitive practice and professionals should know not to discuss as it was here. Those who treat the matter with such insensitivity are clearly offensive and off base. That doesn't come close to justifying misrepresentation of the facts. But it does lead me to wonder what the Planned Parenthood doctor was thinking.
6
The countries with the lowest abortion rates in the world follow the Planned Parenthood model, not the so-called "pro-life" model. The Planned Parenthood model of accurate information and affordable, accessible healthcare and contraception promotes health, reduces unwanted pregnancy and empowers women to pursue gainful employment and care for their families.
The so-called "pro-life" model of criminalization and persecution drives abortion underground and destroys the quality of prenatal care, driving up infant and maternal mortality rates.
There may be good souls sincerely opposed to abortion, but they are not running the "pro-life" movement. Instead it has been taken over by the most vicious and misogynistic of authoritarians, sadistic control freaks masquerading under a pretense of virtue.
The so-called "pro-life" model of criminalization and persecution drives abortion underground and destroys the quality of prenatal care, driving up infant and maternal mortality rates.
There may be good souls sincerely opposed to abortion, but they are not running the "pro-life" movement. Instead it has been taken over by the most vicious and misogynistic of authoritarians, sadistic control freaks masquerading under a pretense of virtue.
46
And so the abortion debate rages on. Tit for tat. Those who say abortion is illegal have succeeded in proving through videography that there is some value to fetal tissue harvested in an abortion, which Planned Parenthood is leveraging in at least some small way to enhance revenue. Those who say that abortion is a woman's only bulwark against a rapacious, oppressive patriarchy think, not surprisingly, that the video is blasphemously skewed to show that abortions are promoted for the purpose of harvesting fetal tissue.
If only the Supreme Court had kept its juridical distance. It had no business getting involved. There is not a single reference, or even inference, in the Constitution regarding reproductive rights. At least if it had stayed out, the states could have resolved the matter on their own. Let the Alabama's huff and puff and outlaw abortion. As long as New York allowed it, Alabama women could avail themselves of the option. They could combine a shopping trip in the City with a visit to the local clinic.
At least partly because of the right's maniacally rigid stance, the left has had to defend abortion as an acceptable and necessary birth control option. It is not. There are a litany of other, better birth control methods. Abortion should be safe, legal and rare, with the emphasis on rare. It really is an abomination to abort a fetus just because of regretted sexual behavior. But that's where the Supreme Court left us.
If only the Supreme Court had kept its juridical distance. It had no business getting involved. There is not a single reference, or even inference, in the Constitution regarding reproductive rights. At least if it had stayed out, the states could have resolved the matter on their own. Let the Alabama's huff and puff and outlaw abortion. As long as New York allowed it, Alabama women could avail themselves of the option. They could combine a shopping trip in the City with a visit to the local clinic.
At least partly because of the right's maniacally rigid stance, the left has had to defend abortion as an acceptable and necessary birth control option. It is not. There are a litany of other, better birth control methods. Abortion should be safe, legal and rare, with the emphasis on rare. It really is an abomination to abort a fetus just because of regretted sexual behavior. But that's where the Supreme Court left us.
4
They haven't "succeeded in proving" anything. As the article states, the entire video is proof of the exact opposite of their assertions.
It seems they are not "leveraging" anything to "enhance revenue." They are recovering expenses that they incur in handling fetal tissue.
Why is it necessary to mention that this "regretted sexual activity," includes rape, incest, fetal deformity, maternal health, and about sixteen other things?
Why is it necessary to point out that Planned Parenthood isn't making a dime off fetal tissue?
Why does it have to be said--again!--that not every woman can hop on a plane to NYC?
Why is it necessary to repeat and repeat that Roe v. Wade IS a compromise?
Why is it necessary to point out that Planned Parenthood isn't making a dime off fetal tissue?
Why does it have to be said--again!--that not every woman can hop on a plane to NYC?
Why is it necessary to repeat and repeat that Roe v. Wade IS a compromise?
1
The Center for Medical Progress should be renamed The Center for Medical Repression. There is no progress in any thing they do or profess.
As stated in the NYT editorial fetal tissue is used to study and do research in hopes of curing diseases, this is progress.
Just think, if this group spent the money used to create this dishonest video, on real medical progress how wonderful the outcomes could be.
The fact that The Center for Medical Progress has obtained tax exemption status is the real crime.
Women are strong and thoughtful. There are many reasons why a woman may choose to have an abortion. It is her choice.
As stated in the NYT editorial fetal tissue is used to study and do research in hopes of curing diseases, this is progress.
Just think, if this group spent the money used to create this dishonest video, on real medical progress how wonderful the outcomes could be.
The fact that The Center for Medical Progress has obtained tax exemption status is the real crime.
Women are strong and thoughtful. There are many reasons why a woman may choose to have an abortion. It is her choice.
28
at 49, ive spent most of my adult life rationalizing why it's ok for a woman to terminate a pregnancy. the logic mostly stems from wondering what i might do if confronted with an unplanned pregnancy. however, as i age, i have become more and more uncomfortable with the whole idea. the role of the law is to protect those who can't protect themselves. we have plenty of laws to protect children as society has decided that they are not in a position to make adult decisions or protect themselves. it seems to me that the law has a useful role in the context of abortion restrictions in that there is a point at which the woman cedes her right to make decisions about "her body" and the state has an obligation to protect the party that can't protect itself. i don't think many would argue that an abortion after 8.9 months is repulsive. i think the law can and should draw a line somewhere yet proponents of abortion rights vehemently push back at the suggestion that the right to change your mind at 8.9 months be abridged. if you believe the role of the law is to protect children because they are not in a position to protect themselves, should this not extend to an 8.9 month old fetus? again, i think most people would agree. thus, narrowing the window by law and not just polite practice seems a completely appropriate role for policy and the PP crowd should embrace such restrictions in favor of preserving the earlier window in favor of the mother. i would favor a window of 4 mo.
10
The problem with the four month window is that serious problems that medically militate in favor of terminating a pregnancy may not be known until that time frame. For example, last year a friend discovered at a 20 week scan that her fetus had defects that meant it would die in utero or at birth - no stomach or kidneys, significant neurological problems, and other non-survivable defects due to a genetic anomaly (as discovered in genetic testing done that same week). Moreover, the condition often also causes pre-eclampsia, a danger to the mother. Why should the government, a politician, or anyone outside that family have any say in what was an extraordinarily difficult and tragic decision that the couple had to make to terminate the pregnancy?
Moreover, I am not aware of many pro-choice people arguing for abortion after the date of viability - in fact, I am not aware of any. Roe v. Wade set an acceptable benchmark. Anti-choice people need to realize that their religious beliefs should not trump science or the beliefs of others. The decision should be between a woman, her god, her doctor and her family - not anyone else.
Moreover, I am not aware of many pro-choice people arguing for abortion after the date of viability - in fact, I am not aware of any. Roe v. Wade set an acceptable benchmark. Anti-choice people need to realize that their religious beliefs should not trump science or the beliefs of others. The decision should be between a woman, her god, her doctor and her family - not anyone else.
12
I appreciate, Skeptic, your becoming more compassionate as you age. At 57, I've come to an even more radical form of compassion, and it's a clearly logical one, as well. Why, for heaven's sake, are we splitting hairs in determining that at 8.9 months we have a human being we're murdering, while at four months, the child is not quite yet a human being? We have been murdering the innocent for decades now, and it has to stop.
2
It is true that abortion oddly becomes the moral issue du jour of middle-aged men.
I tend to suspect that dealing with the moral issues that men are qualified to address requires work on ONESELF, and not Other People. Most of the violence in the world is "man-made"- you have a lot to help with! Help mentor a young man and leave young women alone in your morality project.
The 8.9 month abortion issue exists in the minds of pamphleteers and fanatics. In the real world, there are genetic anomalies that show up shortly after 20 weeks and sadly, like most things in this old world, is not some bright line and that needs to be the business of the couple or woman involved and their/her doctor, not armchair GOP candidates. Let's get back to trusting women as a matter of respect instead of supporting the delusional and imaginary superiority of guys who want to sit back and judge but not do a dang thing for women or kids. But only in the real world.
I tend to suspect that dealing with the moral issues that men are qualified to address requires work on ONESELF, and not Other People. Most of the violence in the world is "man-made"- you have a lot to help with! Help mentor a young man and leave young women alone in your morality project.
The 8.9 month abortion issue exists in the minds of pamphleteers and fanatics. In the real world, there are genetic anomalies that show up shortly after 20 weeks and sadly, like most things in this old world, is not some bright line and that needs to be the business of the couple or woman involved and their/her doctor, not armchair GOP candidates. Let's get back to trusting women as a matter of respect instead of supporting the delusional and imaginary superiority of guys who want to sit back and judge but not do a dang thing for women or kids. But only in the real world.
2
Be honest.
Substitute "baby parts" for fetal tissue, and listen to what the woman was advising. How to terminate the child's life, without crushing or damaging the "baby parts" like organs so they could be used in medical research for HIV, hepatitus, etc. amongst our unhealthier populations.
You made the editorial about the paying for these parts/tissues. But what most Americans find revolting is the practice of terminating young, healthy future lives to supply the needs of the aging and unhealthy.
It's an ethical dilemma, a choice currently being left to the women (and men?) who help to create these non-independent lives. Who elect -- legally -- to terminate these growing fetuses and voluntarily turn over the "tissue" to help others.
At least you are writing on the topic, and not ignoring it. But indeed, there are different ways of viewing the same material, and different words used, and different ways of electing to look at life, and what we value as important -- even without the discussion of money for transport, storage, or research being introduced.
Thank you for allowing my respectful comment. I think others perhaps view this sad story in the terms I have described above. We're not haters, we just see the young lives sacrificed, who likely would grow to full-term babies without medical intervention preserving some of their tissues, but eliminating their chance at an independent life outside of the mother's womb.
Substitute "baby parts" for fetal tissue, and listen to what the woman was advising. How to terminate the child's life, without crushing or damaging the "baby parts" like organs so they could be used in medical research for HIV, hepatitus, etc. amongst our unhealthier populations.
You made the editorial about the paying for these parts/tissues. But what most Americans find revolting is the practice of terminating young, healthy future lives to supply the needs of the aging and unhealthy.
It's an ethical dilemma, a choice currently being left to the women (and men?) who help to create these non-independent lives. Who elect -- legally -- to terminate these growing fetuses and voluntarily turn over the "tissue" to help others.
At least you are writing on the topic, and not ignoring it. But indeed, there are different ways of viewing the same material, and different words used, and different ways of electing to look at life, and what we value as important -- even without the discussion of money for transport, storage, or research being introduced.
Thank you for allowing my respectful comment. I think others perhaps view this sad story in the terms I have described above. We're not haters, we just see the young lives sacrificed, who likely would grow to full-term babies without medical intervention preserving some of their tissues, but eliminating their chance at an independent life outside of the mother's womb.
131
They could also grow up to be the next Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Napoleon, etc. We don't KNOW. However, we DO know that women, who are capable, thinking, thoughtful, dare I say INTELLIGENT, members of society who are fully capable of making the decision to terminate a pregnancy. People have been terminating pregnancies for centuries. Do you really think nothing happened before they were "legal"?? You're appealing to an emotional crowd, and trying to twist words and meanings. They do Not have different ways of viewing the words "Money is only received for storage and transportation" that was states several times throughout the video. They do Not have different ways of ignoring that tissue and organ donations occur constantly. They do Not have the ability to negate that stem cell research helps Everyone in terms of disease research beyond HIV and hepatitis. And ignoring the sheer number of people who have these diseases, and saying we shouldn't Help them, is a disgrace and you should be ashamed for being so selfish that you would force someone you don't even know to have a child. Who do you think you are trying to impose your beliefs on other people? The pro choice movement doesn't force anyone to get an abortion. They just want women to have the OPTION if they so believe and so choose. You having the choice doesn't mean your beliefs are harmed. It just means you can choose to honor your own beliefs. Keep them to yourself.
3
I appreciate your respectful tone and I understand your feelings. I'd like to respectfully suggest that you do what you can to help women avoid unplanned pregnancies so that abortions will become more rare.
3
I know this is an old response to your arguments, but I sure wish you would devote as much effort to the Young Lives who weren't "sacrificed" and who are living in poverty or with parents who cannot care for them adequately.
When you tell me that all the protesters outside the abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood are devoting as much time and as much money to establishing daycare centers in poor neighborhoods, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Head Start, and the myriad of local programs to help Young Lives, then I will give a small listen to your arguments.
When you tell me that all the protesters outside the abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood are devoting as much time and as much money to establishing daycare centers in poor neighborhoods, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Head Start, and the myriad of local programs to help Young Lives, then I will give a small listen to your arguments.
2
Yes, the video is a lie, clumsily edited to sell a single, false storyline. But the entire anti-abortion movement is based upon a lie: that an embryo, a blastocyst or a fetus is exactly identical to a born, living infant.
Those that buy into this lie will buy into all the other lies that come from the same sources, no matter how questionable or flat-out dishonest they may be. Like the lie that any termination of any pregnancy is "killing a baby." Or the lie that accepting reimbursement for labor and shipping costs of fetal tissue is the same as selling the body parts of a murdered born child. Or the lie that every pregnancy always ends with a happy, healthy birth of a happy, healthy baby.
The real world is messy, painful and often tragic. The most effective way to deal with it is honestly and realistically.
Those that buy into this lie will buy into all the other lies that come from the same sources, no matter how questionable or flat-out dishonest they may be. Like the lie that any termination of any pregnancy is "killing a baby." Or the lie that accepting reimbursement for labor and shipping costs of fetal tissue is the same as selling the body parts of a murdered born child. Or the lie that every pregnancy always ends with a happy, healthy birth of a happy, healthy baby.
The real world is messy, painful and often tragic. The most effective way to deal with it is honestly and realistically.
374
How is the video a lie?? There is an unedited version as well, 3 hours
1
Both sides are guilty of spin and dishonesty. The pro choice side likes to claim that no one makes the decision to have an abortion lightly but that's not true, we've all known or read about women who were careless or irresponsible and who didn't think twice about terminating a pregnancy.
The pro choice side likes to use phrases like "clump of cells" but that's not entirely honest either, no other clump of cells has fingers and toes or a beating heart.
I read a lot of British publications and they're a lot more honest about abortion, talking openly about the process and about fetal development while still providing abortion as an option, they're also good at providing health care making it easier to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.
Until both sides start being honest and start working together to help women avoid unwanted pregnancies, both sides are wasting a lot of time and energy.
The pro choice side likes to use phrases like "clump of cells" but that's not entirely honest either, no other clump of cells has fingers and toes or a beating heart.
I read a lot of British publications and they're a lot more honest about abortion, talking openly about the process and about fetal development while still providing abortion as an option, they're also good at providing health care making it easier to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.
Until both sides start being honest and start working together to help women avoid unwanted pregnancies, both sides are wasting a lot of time and energy.
1
It's comments such as this that display the crux of the issue of abortion.
So long as there are still individuals who firmly believe that human life does not exist in the womb, there will still be debate over abortion.
If we all agreed that human life begins at conception, surely we would agree that the termination of human life--in or out of the womb--was equally wrong.
If we all agreed on this, I am certain that we would feel wrong witnessing a time of so many wrongful terminations of life. It would not feel right to sit on the sidelines being honest and realistic and accepting the extreme wrongdoing that was occurring.
But comments like this are proof that we are not in agreement. Until that day, humankind will remain in this turmoil.
So long as there are still individuals who firmly believe that human life does not exist in the womb, there will still be debate over abortion.
If we all agreed that human life begins at conception, surely we would agree that the termination of human life--in or out of the womb--was equally wrong.
If we all agreed on this, I am certain that we would feel wrong witnessing a time of so many wrongful terminations of life. It would not feel right to sit on the sidelines being honest and realistic and accepting the extreme wrongdoing that was occurring.
But comments like this are proof that we are not in agreement. Until that day, humankind will remain in this turmoil.
While attending a Baptist seminary in the '80s, I recall that some conservative denominational factions employed the same dishonesy about reproductive issues to falsely accuse faculty in attempts to revoke their tenure. Students were used to tape lectures which were then edited by takeover leaders to present some professors as advocating and teaching "immoral" choices. The edited tapes were willful and intentional deceptions by some who are still influential in Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christianity today. The strategy worked then so why alter success?
178
Perhaps one should alter the strategy should be altered because it is flagrantly untrue.
Any Christian (and many others of non-Christian religions) should know that to lie is a sin. It is one of the Ten Commandments. Other religions have similar rules for good behavior, but I take only of the group with which I am familiar.
Making a false video and showing it in public is presenting a lie. In this case it is not a falsehood of a fictional story; it is purported to be true. That is a lie.
Any Christian (and many others of non-Christian religions) should know that to lie is a sin. It is one of the Ten Commandments. Other religions have similar rules for good behavior, but I take only of the group with which I am familiar.
Making a false video and showing it in public is presenting a lie. In this case it is not a falsehood of a fictional story; it is purported to be true. That is a lie.
So, you claim supporters of abortion, well aware for decades that their behavior will be examined, are still so stupid as to show up and over lunch discuss abortions in such a callous manner? Maybe they deserve what they get.
No matter how despicable the video it had the impact the producers wanted. Even Mark Shields fell for it on Friday's PBS news hour, condemning the tone of the staffer in the heavily edited portion. Providing human tissue, fetal or otherwise, is a common medical practice and there is no reason to expect a person talking about it to feel a need to treat that in any other way other than casually. Yet Mark Shields agreed with David Brooks that the staffer deserved condemnation.
8
Did Mark Sheilds ever retract his "condemnation" after seeing the whole video? If not, he is as guilty of lying as the makers of the video.
I'm an organ donor and when my kids were young, they told me it was OK for them to be organ donors if something were to happen to them. We saw a news story about a family who donated their child's organs for transplant and were very moved by it.
Out of respect for donors and their families, we treated the topic with some dignity and sensitivity. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone.
Out of respect for donors and their families, we treated the topic with some dignity and sensitivity. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone.
Even if these videos really were as lurid as conservatives allege, what kind of wrongdoing would they actually show?
If you think abortion is wrong because it's murder, then presumably you should think that's what's wrong with what Planned Parenthood is doing. What's wrong with murdering someone for their organs? Well, mostly, that you're murdering them, not that you received some illicit gain from it. But of course this claim wouldn't persuade anyone, because no one who wasn't already upset about Planned Parenthood before the videos thinks that abortion is murder.
You might think that Planned Parenthood committed a crime. But there's no evidence of that. It is legal to sell fetal tissue and organs.
You might think it's wrong to sell fetal organs. But is it even wrong to sell organs? Not everyone thinks so. In fact, at least Ron Paul (not sure about Rand) has supported that. If you do think that there's something wrong with selling organs, is it that you think there's something wrong with profiting from them, or just receiving any money to cover the cost of transplants? Probably not the latter.
Some say it's wrong to use certain abortion procedures solely in order to preserve intact organs. Perhaps certain optional procedures cause morally significant harm to the fetus (e.g., pain). But then we would need an argument for why those procedures are so much worse than alternatives. Is D&E at 20 weeks really much worse than alternative legal procedures?
If you think abortion is wrong because it's murder, then presumably you should think that's what's wrong with what Planned Parenthood is doing. What's wrong with murdering someone for their organs? Well, mostly, that you're murdering them, not that you received some illicit gain from it. But of course this claim wouldn't persuade anyone, because no one who wasn't already upset about Planned Parenthood before the videos thinks that abortion is murder.
You might think that Planned Parenthood committed a crime. But there's no evidence of that. It is legal to sell fetal tissue and organs.
You might think it's wrong to sell fetal organs. But is it even wrong to sell organs? Not everyone thinks so. In fact, at least Ron Paul (not sure about Rand) has supported that. If you do think that there's something wrong with selling organs, is it that you think there's something wrong with profiting from them, or just receiving any money to cover the cost of transplants? Probably not the latter.
Some say it's wrong to use certain abortion procedures solely in order to preserve intact organs. Perhaps certain optional procedures cause morally significant harm to the fetus (e.g., pain). But then we would need an argument for why those procedures are so much worse than alternatives. Is D&E at 20 weeks really much worse than alternative legal procedures?
19
Whew. I'm glad you stopped where you did...
(I'm sure somebody could make value justifications, even/especially now in the 21st century to the answer, "What's wrong with murdering someone for their organs? ")
The more we cheapen life, the harder our own lives -- and hearts -- become. Look around us and tell me that is not true.
(I'm sure somebody could make value justifications, even/especially now in the 21st century to the answer, "What's wrong with murdering someone for their organs? ")
The more we cheapen life, the harder our own lives -- and hearts -- become. Look around us and tell me that is not true.
3
Whether it's wrong or not to sell fetal organs is beside the point. It's illegal. It's also illegal to perform abortion procedures in such a way as to preserve organs for harvest. See http://clinicquotes.com/selling-unborn-babies-the-reality-of-fetal-tissu...
2
I am not sure what you mean, because late term abortion is essentially "D&E" (dilation and extraction of the fetus, which requires it be cut into pieces in order to extract it).
Whether is legal or illegal, morally OK or morally reprehensible -- that will be decided BY THE PUBLIC, when they have seen the ENTIRE unedited video (or videos) -- hours and hours of Planned Parenthood discussing their policies and charges.
I am not afraid to view this. What are YOU afraid of?
Whether is legal or illegal, morally OK or morally reprehensible -- that will be decided BY THE PUBLIC, when they have seen the ENTIRE unedited video (or videos) -- hours and hours of Planned Parenthood discussing their policies and charges.
I am not afraid to view this. What are YOU afraid of?
If the Center for Medical Progress deliberately and maliciously misrepresented Planned Parenthood as breaking the law when they did not, can they be sued for libel?
59
Incitement to commit a crime by knowingly offering $1600, which is in excess of what may legally be collected for the costs associated with collecting and transporting the organs. It's also sometimes called entrapment.
2
Fanatics have made the safe, legal and rare position on the availability of abortions--a position favored by a plurality of Americans-- an impossibility. They've swept up every aspect of women's reproductive healthcare into one big ideological lump that they oppose. They insist on conformity and compliance to their constricted grasp of how women lead their lives. No sex ed, no morning after pill, no contraception, no HPV vaccine, no empathy. Deception, as represented by this video, is a mere tool and willful ignorance the hallmark.
65
Also no help for the babies born out of the ignorance the fanatics foster. Anyone who cannot afford a child but has one is an offense to America and God (according to the holier-than-thous) and thus deserving of nothing. Except maybe dying on the street. How Christian.
2
Well then it's strange conservatives want to make the pill available over the counter and liberals are against it, eh?
The House Energy and Commerce Committee is undertaking an investigation??? How preposterous. The illustrious John Boehner pledged to put a bill before the U.S. House of Representatives to defund Planned Parenthood the same day this video came out. Thank you for running this editorial, New York Times. Any women who votes for any republican/libertarian/tea party candidate, or any other person who thinks they have a right to try to pass laws that suppress women's rights, for any office in the land is just asking for a taliban-type christianity in America. NO. It it time for women - and the men who love them - to pass the Equal Rights Amendment NOW! Some of the most powerful women and women's groups are taking a stand and it's time for women to stand up and take their full role in America.
http://www.eracoalition.org/ourmembers.php#
http://www.eracoalition.org/ourmembers.php#
68
The organization they SHOULD be investigating is this Center for Medical Progress!
2
Typical of the Goebbels like behavior that is becoming standard operating procedure on the Republican right.
77
Goebbels? The man who killed his family in the bunker? The Minister of Propaganda? No, I would argue that the Doctor of Death, Mengele, is close to the heart (intended) of this conflict. Eugenics is just a step away if we cast off our humanity.
2
@ Jason Mayo
This creep Daleiden is a propagandist not a medical practitioner so it seemed more appropriate to compare his deeply unethical and quasi criminal behavior with that of a famous propagandist who used similar underhand and dishonest methods.
This creep Daleiden is a propagandist not a medical practitioner so it seemed more appropriate to compare his deeply unethical and quasi criminal behavior with that of a famous propagandist who used similar underhand and dishonest methods.
1
In this day and age of 24/7 new cycles and the ability to create instant videos, this story should concern everyone. Never the mind it is about Planned Parenthood, the ability to "create", or alter, the truth is really the issue here.
While people are used to the lies we see every election cycle, this goes further. It is edited to create a lie. It is edited fro a certain political view and agenda. It is edited and being purported as the truth. It is like Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" in action.
This is a classic case of tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. This is a very powerful tool in the wrong hands. For example, already TV ads are running here spewing lies about Iran and the recent agreement.
So, these Senators have it wrong. What needs to be done is to make it illegal to pawn off out right lies, libel and slander as the truth. And certainly making it illegal to create videos that are obviously a fabrication , by "creative" editing.
The first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom of libel, slander or fabrication. And it certainly does not condone what amounts to creating a Ministry of Truth at any government level, no matter the political agenda.
While people are used to the lies we see every election cycle, this goes further. It is edited to create a lie. It is edited fro a certain political view and agenda. It is edited and being purported as the truth. It is like Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" in action.
This is a classic case of tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. This is a very powerful tool in the wrong hands. For example, already TV ads are running here spewing lies about Iran and the recent agreement.
So, these Senators have it wrong. What needs to be done is to make it illegal to pawn off out right lies, libel and slander as the truth. And certainly making it illegal to create videos that are obviously a fabrication , by "creative" editing.
The first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom of libel, slander or fabrication. And it certainly does not condone what amounts to creating a Ministry of Truth at any government level, no matter the political agenda.
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Indeed, the WHOLE video shows the true operation. The edited version shows what the filmer wanted not what actually was. The Planned Parenthood doctor was very clinical in her discussion but that does not change the facts that the "interviewer" skewed.
1
So well stated. Thank you. This should have been given an NYT Pick.
A concerted effort is being made to deflect attention toward the investigators and focus on their "dishonesty". The problem is that the Planned Parenthood employees were being completely honest. The method used to videotape them does not change what they spoke openly about.
35
@ AACNY
As this editorial points out the release of the full 2 hour video shows that shorter version was deceptively edited by the so called center for medical progress who used quasi illegal tactics to obtain it in the first place. Sounds like just the sort of behavior someone like you would find admirable.
As this editorial points out the release of the full 2 hour video shows that shorter version was deceptively edited by the so called center for medical progress who used quasi illegal tactics to obtain it in the first place. Sounds like just the sort of behavior someone like you would find admirable.
41
That's right John, personally attack the commentator because they have formed their own opinion on the matter which does not match the liberal talking points on this event.
Are you opposed to free thought and civil discourse or is it acceptable to you to project a micro aggression on those who don't follow the party line?
Are you opposed to free thought and civil discourse or is it acceptable to you to project a micro aggression on those who don't follow the party line?
1
Bah...it is the video equivalent of quote-mining.
I think the NYT reveals its true self with this editorial and the accompanying "news" story. Your article on the man behind this sting was a clear hit piece. Nice you pointed out his mother became pregnant during college and his parents are now divorced. Very relevant to the story I'm sure. Then again she didn't have an abortion and we get the videos. Anything to destroy an enemy,
48
@ Bill
Well it's certainly the case that this gentleman was willing to use any tactics, however despicable, to destroy an enemy but apparently that's fine with you. Some might call this monumental humbug.
Well it's certainly the case that this gentleman was willing to use any tactics, however despicable, to destroy an enemy but apparently that's fine with you. Some might call this monumental humbug.
25
That you could read that story, with the clear documentation of how dishonest the group is that created this attack video and see it as an attack on the creep who arranged all this shows that you don't really care about the facts.
Pretty sad.
Pretty sad.
@ Bill "pointed out his mother became pregnant during college and his parents are now divorced. ..... Anything to destroy an enemy,"
Seriously? You think that information is going to destroy this man? I have friends and co-workers, whose mothers were pregnant with them before marriage, and they make jokes about it.
I think the information simply points to possible motivation. Nothing wrong with that. Many members of organizations, such as the Humane Society, are motivated by abuse they experienced as children. I'm a member and I don't feel that lessens what they do.
Seriously? You think that information is going to destroy this man? I have friends and co-workers, whose mothers were pregnant with them before marriage, and they make jokes about it.
I think the information simply points to possible motivation. Nothing wrong with that. Many members of organizations, such as the Humane Society, are motivated by abuse they experienced as children. I'm a member and I don't feel that lessens what they do.
News flash. Some people find abortion to be amoral. In related news, some politicians will pander to those people.
If that doesn't make sense, take the first part of this story and replace Planned Parent hood with NRA, then swap republican/conservative for democrat/liberal. Next change "abortion" to "gun" and think about how you might feel. This may provide a better understanding of how politicians and political activist will take small, insignificant instances and attempt to interject themselves into the dialogue in an effort to gain favor.
A scan through some of your Editorial Board's previous articles on the second amendment and gun control will probably make the analogy even more clear.
And by the way, federal dollars are used for abortions.
If you pay my gas bill and my food bill and my phone bill and I use the money I normally would have used for those expenses to pay my rent, you have paid my rent.
If that doesn't make sense, take the first part of this story and replace Planned Parent hood with NRA, then swap republican/conservative for democrat/liberal. Next change "abortion" to "gun" and think about how you might feel. This may provide a better understanding of how politicians and political activist will take small, insignificant instances and attempt to interject themselves into the dialogue in an effort to gain favor.
A scan through some of your Editorial Board's previous articles on the second amendment and gun control will probably make the analogy even more clear.
And by the way, federal dollars are used for abortions.
If you pay my gas bill and my food bill and my phone bill and I use the money I normally would have used for those expenses to pay my rent, you have paid my rent.
30
Johannes's comment seems to reverse course in midstream. No, abortion is not compulsory. Those who object are not required to have one. And your claim that federal dollars are used for abortions is (a) apparently false, (b) so what? They're not your federal dollars, they're mine. And if some of mine are used to murder innocent people, do I get a refund?
25
I'm glad you are not a certified public accountant, for such reasoning would end up putting your clients in jail had they followed it.
1
Nonetheless, abortion is legal.
Mass murder shootings are not presented in cherry-picked propaganda videos to influence gun control legislation and investigation. There is no analogy here.
Mass murder shootings are not presented in cherry-picked propaganda videos to influence gun control legislation and investigation. There is no analogy here.
2
The main mission of Planned Parenthood is abortion prevention through sex education. Its saboteurs are a worthless mob of narcissistic hypocrites who should be ignored.
236
Prevention? 55 million and counting. I think they have failed at their mission.
1
Don't forget birth control. Planned Parenthood provides it free or at low cost to millions. This organization prevents more abortions than any other in the world.
1
A three plus hour video is hardly heavily edited.
24
Kind of depends on the length of the raw video.
Go back and read the article. The article says the clip was heavily edited. Sections that are in the original video and that would have made it clear that the fees being discussed were fees allowable by law were edited out of the clips, making it seem that PP was selling baby parts. I watched a 20 minute video the morning it came out and the fake outrage spread across social media. It was obvious that it was edited. Not only were sections of the dialog cut out, but slides with wording about the laws supposedly being violated were sprinkled throughout the video, together with ominous music.
1
And from that 3 hour video several segments were selected and run together into a nine minute video that had important information removed so that it appears to say something that was never said. That's heavy editing.
2
By the way, isn't it time to stop calling it "tissue". They are organs, lungs, liver, heart, etc., that are removed in a particular way to prevent their damage. If it were only tissue, the abortion techniques would not have been mentioned. There would have been no need to avoid crushing the part being sold.
43
Nonsense. It is tissue; that's a technical term that's correct. If it's organs also, so what? Only an anti-abortionist would insist on making it sound bad.
19
That is the term used in medical circles. Why should there be one term for fetal parts and another for child and adult parts?
1
Ah, the use of words.
2
This story about Planned parenthood and the sale of baby organs to the highest bidder is just amazing. But it seems not one Democratic candidate will comment on the topic?
44
The reason none of the candidates are commenting on it is that it's a demonstrable lie. Planned Parenthood isn't selling to the highest bidder, they're saying "This is the rate it takes to cover our costs, and we'd rather these parts get used for research rather than thrown away."
Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not bear false witness"?
Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not bear false witness"?
24
Did we read the same article? Planned Parenthood is not auctioning off "baby organs". Against abortion? Don't have one and leave the rest of us to follow the dictates of our own conscience.
How is this story amazing? Clearly you didn't read it or know what you're talking about.
It doesn’t matter whether this type of film is pro or con on any subject. What DOES matter is that it’s false and defamatory and does nothing to educate or add to the discussion.
106
That is what the right wing is all about. Deception and delusion. It's not the first time they've released gotcha videos, and not the first time fake outrage fueled by deceptive videos spread like wildfire. The truth eventually came out, together with the original videos, making the deception clear, and still the consumers of these right wing outlets fall for the deception every time.
2
A picture said a thousand words
It's not false or defamatory. Whether you're for abortion or not.
1
This is an example of the continuing War on Women by the right wingers. It is dishonest and despicable! Why do these people hate women so voraciously? The republicans are excellent at building hate. That is what they do.
105
Many women are pro-life and republican. Do they voraciously hate women also? Don't paint with broad brushes, Planned Parenthood, NOW and feminists do not now, and never have, represented the view of all woman. Stop deluding yourselves.
1
to be fair, as another commenter mentioned, I will bet you cheered when the Romney 47% tape hit the air though. Dishonest and despicable then?
2
Because murdering the fruit of your womb is no "right" at all, but a crime against nature. This is actually an attempt to restore womanhood, which modern liberalism has destroyed.
1
Does the law say you cannot sell tissue or you cannot sell tissue for a profit? Planned Parenthood, and now the NYT, have defended themselves by saying they don't make a profit, but that is not what is alleged, nor, it appears, what makes the conduct illegal. If the video was edited only to show consent was required and that the revenue only covered costs (something that is, in fact, mentioned in the second edited video), not much is missing. As for Biomax and their deception, how forgivable you find their conduct depends almost entirely (in this day and age) on your opinion of the underlying subject. The NYT, unsurprisingly, supports access to abortion and so has a low opinion of their sting operation. One wonders what their view would be if it were a sting operation against a Christian group with unpopular views. Ultimately, conduct of a sting operation is a separate issue; this is not a court of law, and there is no need to throw out the evidence. Whether for profit, or only to cover costs, Planned Parenthood sells human body parts. Deal with it, as they say.
26
Whatever you call it, no matter how bad a word you insist on using, there is nothing wrong with it. Only your prejudice makes it seem wrong.
12
Actually, Planned Parenthood donates human tissue to scientific research. Deal with it.
The organization does nothing illegal when making these donations with the full consent of the patient. Stripping their funding is absurdly reactionary and irrational.
Perhaps those same Republicans should focus their energy on making scientific research illegal. We need a truth teller like Donald Trump to uncover the true Republican agenda: replace science with their "Christian" brand of Sharia law.
The organization does nothing illegal when making these donations with the full consent of the patient. Stripping their funding is absurdly reactionary and irrational.
Perhaps those same Republicans should focus their energy on making scientific research illegal. We need a truth teller like Donald Trump to uncover the true Republican agenda: replace science with their "Christian" brand of Sharia law.
3
So, "selling" to recoup expenses is not OK, in your opinion. Or is it just the use of fetal tissue in research that you don't like?
1
If any legislation is to be passed this week, let's make it a bill to strip "The Center for Medical Progress" of its tax-exempt status. That the salaries of these provocateurs--no other word applies--are paid out of tax exemptions for a mission of entrapment and ideologically edited videos deserves total condemnation.
I have no idea how a 26-year old kid became so ideologically radicalized to spend so much time and energy crusading against an organization that receives no government funding for terminated pregnancies, and furthermore, provides vital health services and cancer screenings to poor women.
But fight he does and I wonder how much he's rewarded by major conservative organizations to make up for his ostensibly low tax-exempt salary. I'd like to know a lot more about the sociological type that deems himself the one to selectively edit a video of PP officials obeying the law and engaging in discussions about the use of fetal tissue in medical research.
Abortion services are legal in the US. So are donations of fetal tissue, by women who have terminated pregnancies and consented to such use, by medical researchers. Instead of a hit-and-run edited video, let's bring on Mr. Daleiden to face the public, on a stage, with members of PP, the NIH, and medical researchers to discuss the topic of how important fetal tissue donation is to advance medicine.
And how he himself, when old, might benefit from such donations used to find cures for serious diseases.
I have no idea how a 26-year old kid became so ideologically radicalized to spend so much time and energy crusading against an organization that receives no government funding for terminated pregnancies, and furthermore, provides vital health services and cancer screenings to poor women.
But fight he does and I wonder how much he's rewarded by major conservative organizations to make up for his ostensibly low tax-exempt salary. I'd like to know a lot more about the sociological type that deems himself the one to selectively edit a video of PP officials obeying the law and engaging in discussions about the use of fetal tissue in medical research.
Abortion services are legal in the US. So are donations of fetal tissue, by women who have terminated pregnancies and consented to such use, by medical researchers. Instead of a hit-and-run edited video, let's bring on Mr. Daleiden to face the public, on a stage, with members of PP, the NIH, and medical researchers to discuss the topic of how important fetal tissue donation is to advance medicine.
And how he himself, when old, might benefit from such donations used to find cures for serious diseases.
1134
Too bad what you have written doesn't actually address what is actually occurring, which is the extraction of fetal organs in a particular way to protect them so as to maximize the amount of money received for them.
140
AACNY, so prejudicial and misleading is your choice of words.
40
Making this contribution to science means the fetus did not die in vain, AACNY. It gives some consolation to women who reach this difficult decision.
12
Maybe we need someone make a film about the damage a bullet does when it enters the body of a living person. Over and over again. On a daily basis. In schools, in the streets, everywhere except in Congress where our legislators protect themselves from the violence while making it ever easier for the shooters to arm themselves to come after us.
But no--Congress makes laws so the government can't collect information on shootings. We wouldn't want to actually know how much carnage is being caused by guns, would we. Someone might challenge the right to unlimited guns.
So, how are we ever going to see the totality of the harm caused by guns? Maybe some of those young computer folks could design a program to pull every report of a shooting out of public newspapers so we'd have some hint. But then I suppose Congress, in its wisdom, would pass a law outlawing even that collecting of information.
Maybe we could find a way to do abortion by gun. They'd probably approve that.
But no--Congress makes laws so the government can't collect information on shootings. We wouldn't want to actually know how much carnage is being caused by guns, would we. Someone might challenge the right to unlimited guns.
So, how are we ever going to see the totality of the harm caused by guns? Maybe some of those young computer folks could design a program to pull every report of a shooting out of public newspapers so we'd have some hint. But then I suppose Congress, in its wisdom, would pass a law outlawing even that collecting of information.
Maybe we could find a way to do abortion by gun. They'd probably approve that.
120
You offer a perfect justification for the film and its content.
Maybe we need someone make a film about the damage a bullet does when it enters the body of a living person. Over and over again. On a daily basis.
-----------------
YES!
The more we know, the more revolted we are into taking action to prevent the losses of life. This includes the chemicals administered to those on death row.
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YES!
The more we know, the more revolted we are into taking action to prevent the losses of life. This includes the chemicals administered to those on death row.
1
Deception is the name of the game in politics, government and justice. Remember anger comes when misguided beliefs slam into unforeseen reality. Peoples unwillingness to accept reality based on their misguided beliefs and on religious deceptions, both self-imposed and spoon fed have been constant anchors on reality.
18
So, in your book opposing abortion is "misguided belief" and "religious deception." Given your propensity to define things your way, what then is the killing of live fetuses so that you can collect and market their body parts?
1
Scott Walker just signed a restrictive, anti-abortion bill into law in Wisconsin reasoning, in part, that fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks gestation. Walker has infamously punted on climate change stating "I am not a scientist". Is he an obstetrician/gynecologist? And why haven't the press been asking him that precise question?
171
Gov Walker is not even a college grad, he flunked out…….what does that tell you? His opinions & behavior show how uneducated he is….he lives in ignorance.
1
Simply put, Walker is a weasel sponsored by the Koch brothers hoping to implement their right wing agenda nationwide.
1
Haven't we learned from the Shirley Sherrod debacle??
Look at the original video and find that the filmers edited into something incrimination when nothing was there originally.
Look at the original video and find that the filmers edited into something incrimination when nothing was there originally.
59
I sincerely appreciate this editorial. I have wondered lately whytheNYT does not take up the issue of women's reproductive rights as well as our rights to full equality. We are, after all fifty one percent of the population.
Thank heavens for the services that planned parenthood provides to women. To cut off their funding would seriously jeopardize the health of so many women who have no other resources . I believe that ALL republicans are at fault here, not just the right wing. The entire party has become an enemy to women .
Thank heavens for the services that planned parenthood provides to women. To cut off their funding would seriously jeopardize the health of so many women who have no other resources . I believe that ALL republicans are at fault here, not just the right wing. The entire party has become an enemy to women .
1
The video and audio don't lie. Perhaps the Planned Parenthood doctors just wanted to make a little money on the side from the baby organs. The truth is that babies are distroyed by doctors who see potential profit rather than potential life. Young people have lost tens of millions of brothers and sisters to an unnecessary destruction.
32
The video and audio certainly do lie. You read only what you want to believe.
2
All I see is that you really don't understand the issue. Covering costs of transport does not equal profit. Shame on you to deny the sick a chance at better medicine. That demands good research. If consent is given, it behooves all involved to obtain the best equipment/material available. Computer models only go so far. Get your priorities straight. Parroting propaganda is all you seem to be able to do. It displays a profound lack of depth on the issue. It's tragic that some people buy it. But not all. This is all another reason why the right wing denies science. They want to keep people ineffective at critical thinking. Scary.
I bet you would never place any restriction on gun ownership. Compare the number of abortions performed annually with the number of individuals who die from gun violence.
1
I see. Didn't a Democrat tape Mitt Romney at a private gathering about his 47% comment? I seem to recall the New York Times editorial board and their op-Ed columnists writing endless columns trashing Romney. If that person hadn't taped that what happens to the election then?
So when a Democrat does it it's revealing the REAL Romney he's done a public service but a Republican uses the same tactic and suddenly it's an edited, misrepresented piece that is suddenly it's the same old tired "republicans are trying to control what a woman does with her body" mantra.
Why is it liberals can try to force the Little Sisters of the poor to provide contraceptive care in violation of their religious beliefs? What happened to your sacred separation of church and state? It only applies when you want it to
Face facts. They used the same tactics you use all the time and now you don't like it when it's used on you. Get out your crying towel. Obama said in 2009 Planned Parenthood should not be fundedwith federal money Or did you blowhards forget that?
So when a Democrat does it it's revealing the REAL Romney he's done a public service but a Republican uses the same tactic and suddenly it's an edited, misrepresented piece that is suddenly it's the same old tired "republicans are trying to control what a woman does with her body" mantra.
Why is it liberals can try to force the Little Sisters of the poor to provide contraceptive care in violation of their religious beliefs? What happened to your sacred separation of church and state? It only applies when you want it to
Face facts. They used the same tactics you use all the time and now you don't like it when it's used on you. Get out your crying towel. Obama said in 2009 Planned Parenthood should not be fundedwith federal money Or did you blowhards forget that?
62
There actually is, though you may not agree, a difference between reporting what really happened and making a fake report that implies something that didn't happen. Romney really did say that about the 47%, or do you disbelieve it? If so, let's hear that!
33
Romney was taped by a bartender who thought it would be cool to have video of a Presidential candidate. I'm not sure if his political affiliation is known but he didn't have any kind of agenda and he didn't set out to trap Romney.
Stop using false equivalences, it weakens any legitimate argument you might have.
Stop using false equivalences, it weakens any legitimate argument you might have.
3
The 47% Romney tape was not predatory and was not edited. It just "was". The guy just recorded something that was already taking place.
2
Please post the videos and also include one of a twenty week abortion. Let's see how many people really love planned parenthood.
I note that you are upset at the group that made the video. They didn't make the physicians say anything, they didn't write the script, and they played the entire video. Good reporting - 60 minutes used to do those things! You are upset because these individuals got caught. By the way, Media Matters is a non-profit also dedicated to bashing Republicans. Should they be investigated?
I note that you are upset at the group that made the video. They didn't make the physicians say anything, they didn't write the script, and they played the entire video. Good reporting - 60 minutes used to do those things! You are upset because these individuals got caught. By the way, Media Matters is a non-profit also dedicated to bashing Republicans. Should they be investigated?
46
We're not upset that they made a video. Just that they changed the meaning of what was said.
They got caught at nothing bill; sheesh. Re-read the facts of what they said they do and what the law says they can do. They are one and the same.
1
what are you afraid of?... nothing you have written is fact based
3
The Republican 'war against women' continues. I can at least take some solace from this episode knowing that the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot and further hurting their chances for the White House in 2016.
45
And killing women's unborn babies, and sometimes the women themselves, is not a war on women? The fact that a woman finds herself in an abortion clinic at all is the greatest testament to a fundamental lack of women being allowed to control their bodies.
You must be joking. How can you think killing a fetus to save the organs is anything but despicable?
1
I am a woman and I am voting for any Republican over the Democrats.
1
I stopped going to my Catholic church after June 26 when the priest bemoaned the Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality. He suggested that lobbyists for that cause would try to strip churches of their tax exemption next. Last week, someone told me that he was focused on "Planned Parenthood selling baby parts". The right ( in their many guises) love this kind of ammunition. They don't care if they are speaking factually , or even rationally. All they know is that they are righteous.
79
I am like you. I think all churches should adopt the beliefs that I have, not what God says is right or wrong. Good for you.
1
Religious institutions should be stripped of their tax exemption. That discussion is independent of one's opinion about abortion.
Did he ever give a sermon on the lawsuits against pedophile priests and the Church's cover up?
2
I support all the important work Planned Parenthood does. That is why I find this episode so disturbing and so difficult to understand. How is it that a senior staff member of Planned Parenthood was in such a compromising position? Why wasn't the phony company revealed by a policy of vetting any "company" that attempts to do business with Planned Parenthood? How is it that Planned Parenthood doesn't understand they have a target on their backs and groups like the one that pulled this deception off are out their planning and plotting their next attack? And why, as is now apparent did Planned Parenthood not put training and administrative policies in place in anticipation of such attacks? This is ACORN all over again and a critically needed institution and all those that institution help and support is at risk. The deceptive and destructive acts of a dishonest and malicious organization were abetted by poor training and weak leadership. If Planned Parenthood survives their first post attack act should be to strengthen their training and leadership.
53
It's not dishonest. Whether you support them or not. What you are saying, (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you don't have a problem with what they are doing, only that they got caught?
1
Perhaps I didn't quite understand you, but I think you just called Planned Parenthood a "deceptive and malicious organization." Of course you are right, but I thought at first that you were writing in support of killing babies and selling their body parts on the "free" market. Good for you!
1
Of course the videos are dishonest and unethical, we are talking about republicans, everything they do is dishonest and unethical. The fact checking sites have already determined that republicans lie 300% more than democrats but I think we already knew that. Republicans are the only people in the world who think lying is a good thing.
47
really
obama lied about keeping your doctor
hillary lied about her emails'
guess that makes them republicans.
obama lied about keeping your doctor
hillary lied about her emails'
guess that makes them republicans.
3
Really? Have you ever heard of Matthew Vines? He thinks lying is a good thing.
1
File this one under "Sweeping Generalizations!"
Dishonor , deception and outrage are the children of a sick society. We are suffering with chronic pain induced by the self righteous who use trickery and trumpery as a diversion from indefensible social and economic bleeding. A nation that once had ideals, now has an orchestrated media circus specifically designed to sow failure into the best of intentions. Planned Parenthood has helped thousands understand the complexity of bringing children into the world. That it has to endure the flack from the war on women that so neatly puts votes in the shameless GOP column is a sin against those who fought for our freedom . The healing will come only when every American who knows the difference between snake oil and science gets to the polls every November.
46
The Republicans apparently don't realize that the last thing they need in an election year is another reminder of how woman-hating, family-hating and science-denying their party is: anti-choice, anti-contraception, anti-health care, pro-rape. They can't help drum into our heads how ignorant and backward they are. Great campaign strategy.
Despite the extreme editing, spooky music and attempts at entrapment, there's nothing illegal going on in the videos. How embarrassing that grown ups spend their lives on shenanigans like this.
Despite the extreme editing, spooky music and attempts at entrapment, there's nothing illegal going on in the videos. How embarrassing that grown ups spend their lives on shenanigans like this.
350
What is illegal is the making of the video without permission and they should be prosecuted...
1
Your comment is so dripping with hate and intolerance that you make totally ridiculous comments about people just because they don't agree with you. Some facts, many women are pro-life, Republicans do not hate their wives, daughters, sisters or female friends. To say republicans are pro-rape and hate families is beyond any sane compression. Please check your hate at the door.
2
The making of the video itself is illegal as it was done without consent.
Stop killing babies and there won't be videos.
26
Start supporting affordable contraception and sex education and there will be fewer abortions.
Stop deliberately confusing an embryo or a fetus with a born human baby.
There are plenty of videos of police killing actual Black adults but that has not stopped the excess. What happens inside my body - the bodies of ALL my female sisters - is my business and it will never be yours.
1
You can use all the bland euphemisms you can conger up. ''Reproductive rights'' ,''women's health'' etc.,etc.Call it what it is,surgical abortion.A living thing is being killed whether you think it's a baby or not.NYT and it's commenters hold the ''dishonest'' CMP in great disregard but ignore the comments of the two "doctors''.
If you can listen to the two abortion doctors describe ''crushing'' and ''crunching''babies as they cheerfully scarf down lunch without thinking twice about the $500 million in unaccountable taxpayer funding of PP or your stomach turning,you're as soulless as they are.
If you can listen to the two abortion doctors describe ''crushing'' and ''crunching''babies as they cheerfully scarf down lunch without thinking twice about the $500 million in unaccountable taxpayer funding of PP or your stomach turning,you're as soulless as they are.
40
Phelan what you and many other posters are not getting is that Planned Parenthood's activities serve to REDUCE the number of abortions. And defunding its activities will have precisely the opposite result of what you would like to achieve. Pay attention now: sex education, family planning and informed contraception lead to fewer unintended pregnancies.
1
I challenge you to speak to doctors who routinely perform unsavory procedures (like draining cysts or treating incontinence). After you work with something for a very long time, it becomes routine and yes, easy to speak about almost flippantly. It is, after all, your day-to-day life. I understand how you might find this language to be offensive, but that is not a reflection of unethical behavior; it is simply demonstrative of the nature of practicing medicine day in and day out.
And welcome to the U.S., where "unaccountable taxpayer funding" extends to all non-profit hospitals--including Christian/Catholic hospitals and clinics. Singling out Planned Parenthood for "millions" in taxpayer funding is a demonstration of your refusal to acknowledge how the entire non-profit healthcare system works.
And welcome to the U.S., where "unaccountable taxpayer funding" extends to all non-profit hospitals--including Christian/Catholic hospitals and clinics. Singling out Planned Parenthood for "millions" in taxpayer funding is a demonstration of your refusal to acknowledge how the entire non-profit healthcare system works.
1
Attacking the messenger won't change the inhumanity of the Planned Parenthood employees in these videos. Their "crunching" and "crushing" shop talk should make everyone cringe.
What's "dishonest" is to ignore their actions and substitute abortion rights as the primary issues. Sorry, but their actions and, worse, mindset are the issues here.
What's "dishonest" is to ignore their actions and substitute abortion rights as the primary issues. Sorry, but their actions and, worse, mindset are the issues here.
44
All surgeons have to maintain a certain degree of detachment to perform their work.
3
Medical professionals speaking conversationally to (who they thought were) other medical professionals would naturally have developed a certain nonchalance concerning day-to-day subjects that might make you cringe. You should hear a conversation between people in the mortuary business sometime.
1
Few surgeons are in the business of taking lives but preserving parts, thankfully...
2
Any "Expose Video" that has been edited cannot be trusted unless it is shown clean and unedited
17
There goes all those Emmy awards 60 Minutes has won.
well,
it's all there. go watch it.
it's all there. go watch it.
1
The entire, 3 hour unedited video is available online, for free.
Watch it before making comments.
Watch it before making comments.
Maybe there is presently no smoking gun about the selling of body parts (more videos forthcoming), but the doctors flat out stated they changed procedures and protocols which may be illegal. There is enough evidence and probable cause here to start an investigation. I am not sure why the government provides taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood in the first place, and now that the ACA is in effect everyone should have medical insurance to reimburse Planned Parenthood for their medical services, but that is a different issue. The NYT states that the taxpayer money does not directly fund abortions, however, it does free up Planned Parenthood's other funds to perform abortions. As a compromise, if Planned Parenthood wants to continue to receive taxpayer funding for providing health care services and abortions, force them to split into two separate entities where money cannot transfer between the two entities. Entity one would provide health services, but no abortions, and would be eligible for taxpayer funding. Entity two could continue to perform legal abortions but would not be eligible for taxpayer funding. Entity two will have to be self funded through revenues generated for their services, fundraising and other revenue streams that do not include taxpayer funding.
23
The reality is that not everyone is covered under the ACA and Planned Pareufills a vital role in basic healthcare for women in numerous underserved areas of this country.
3
The government provides funding for Planned Parenthood because, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, "gaps in private sector and publicly-funded programs left over one in six women uninsured". And when uninsured women get Urinary Track Infections--an extremely common issue--where can they go for treatment? According to the CDC, "is estimated that undiagnosed STDs cause 24,000 women to become infertile each year." Women suffer disproportionately when it comes to STIs, and since fewer women receive insurance through their employer, they are also less likely to have access to health insurance coverage. People choose to believe that Planned Parenthood exists to execute their savage mission of providing abortions, but the fact is that they are far more likely to treat UTIs, STDs, and provide contraception. Whenever I've gone to PP for my routine "Women's Wellness" care, I laugh in the face of people waving "Choose Life". The only life I'm after is that of the bacteria in my urinary tract.
1
But everyone does not have health insurance because it is still too expensive for too many people and Republicans throughout the country refuse to extend Medicaid.
1
The irony of the conservatives' attack on Planned Parenthood is that by decreasing the number of Planned Parenthood locations, they will decrease the amount of contraceptives distributed resulting in more unplanned pregnancies resulting in more, not less, abortions. Many of these abortions will then go underground resulting in more health problems. This is another example of conservatives living in an alternate reality where they try to create some kind of society they wish to be true like trickle-down economics or stopping illegal immigrants by building border fences. Sadly they have a propaganda network to deceive the ignorant into believe their fantasies.
42
"Contraception prevents abortion 98% of the time when used correctly."
About a year ago, a GOP congressman (sorry, can't remember who and can't find the link) was preparing legislation to make ALL contraceptives
over-the-counter.
NO insurance companies reimburses for OTC meds. Another barrage in the war on Women.
George Carlin once wisely asked: "Why would anyone want to harass and kill people who want to Plan Parenthood?"
Planned Parenthood Mission Statement:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/mission
About a year ago, a GOP congressman (sorry, can't remember who and can't find the link) was preparing legislation to make ALL contraceptives
over-the-counter.
NO insurance companies reimburses for OTC meds. Another barrage in the war on Women.
George Carlin once wisely asked: "Why would anyone want to harass and kill people who want to Plan Parenthood?"
Planned Parenthood Mission Statement:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/mission
32
Planed genocide, murder. Take the number of already killed (58,101,574), not liberal here, and political correctness does not exist, and take the population of the largest world cities and start to deduct until the number of killed has been reached. Staggering, 35 of the worlds largest cities have been wiped out. Because the liberals tell us this: there are no consequences to have sex. Be blessed.
Making contraceptives over the counter means they will be cheaper, but that is bad somehow?
1
Can you prove OTC contraception will be cheaper? The profit motive for Big Pharma may ramp up if they believe they will have a wider arena for sales.
Also, The risk of women taking this class of drugs without medical supervision and advice is, well, not advisable.
Also, The risk of women taking this class of drugs without medical supervision and advice is, well, not advisable.
This is no longer merely a matter of point-of-view, pro versus anti, right versus left. With this kind of poisonous propaganda the right--with its access to unlimited funding by its shadowy billionaire backers--is taking the nation into profoundly undemocratic territory.
Students of history will recognize the nature of this particular variety of propaganda and the deliberate use of Big Lie tactics to drive mass opinion through rage, reaction, and hate.
What makes this more dangerous is that it is not happening in isolation. This crude tactic goes beyond the reactionary anti-choice movement, whose excesses over the years have included acts of murder and clinic bombings. These radicals are now working in close alliance with the broader political right to destabilize and fracture our already-polarized national politics in advance of next year's elections.
Notice the alacrity with which ambitious right-wing politicians--alerted long before the tapes were released to their existence and potential usefulness--have moved to weaponize this whole sordid nonsense to advance their own ambitions.
Beyond the core issue of women's reproductive freedom and a woman's right to a full spectrum of health care--already under assault everywhere in America--this incident underscores the deterioration of the Republican Party and the American right into a radical, unprincipled movement funded by a handful of oligarchs answerable to no-one and determined to win at any cost.
Students of history will recognize the nature of this particular variety of propaganda and the deliberate use of Big Lie tactics to drive mass opinion through rage, reaction, and hate.
What makes this more dangerous is that it is not happening in isolation. This crude tactic goes beyond the reactionary anti-choice movement, whose excesses over the years have included acts of murder and clinic bombings. These radicals are now working in close alliance with the broader political right to destabilize and fracture our already-polarized national politics in advance of next year's elections.
Notice the alacrity with which ambitious right-wing politicians--alerted long before the tapes were released to their existence and potential usefulness--have moved to weaponize this whole sordid nonsense to advance their own ambitions.
Beyond the core issue of women's reproductive freedom and a woman's right to a full spectrum of health care--already under assault everywhere in America--this incident underscores the deterioration of the Republican Party and the American right into a radical, unprincipled movement funded by a handful of oligarchs answerable to no-one and determined to win at any cost.
607
What is going on here? Most everyone wants to blame the right. These people are breaking the law. Let's clean up what is actually wrong whether you're pro choice or not. Why does the left continually think it's okay to break the law to get what they want? Politics should not be the issue here. So much for our failing morals.
9
You don't see the same folly on the left? If you take the time to learn about and truly understand the PPACA and how it actually works, pragmatically, within the entire health services industry, and not cute little anecdotal stories and utopian ideals, you will see that a HUGE lie was sold to the American public. That's merely one example. Are there uniquely Republican campaign donors? Yes, the same way there are uniquely Democratic campaign donors, but again, if you take the time to analyze the reality surrounding campaign donations/funding, away from partisanship, you'll see that many big donor's play both sides of the fence. The oligarchs are on both sides, and if you deny that to be true then you are willfully blind to the state of American politics. They all lie to get elected and stay in power.
1
sorry but you have it exactly backwards. the left has lost sight of the value of human life. Maybe the right lies but so does the left.
How can reproductive rights become crushing of live babies in the womb?
It has gone too far for me.
How can reproductive rights become crushing of live babies in the womb?
It has gone too far for me.
1
If unborn baby seals or unborn baby whales (or God forbid unborn Delta Smelts) were routinely harvested for parts, the screaming and outrage from the Left would be deafening. Unborn children however? ( S I L E N C E )
37
No child is "harvested" for parts. The rhetoric is stunningly inaccurate
17
You seem to have an obsession with "unborn" animals. They are called many things in the rational, scientific world - zygotes, embryos, fetuses - but not "unborn". At these stages, it is not yet a baby or a child.
Gazillions of zygotes and fertilized eggs pass through women's bodies every day, around the globe. Are you screaming about those as well? Perhaps you want to regulate that also?
Gazillions of zygotes and fertilized eggs pass through women's bodies every day, around the globe. Are you screaming about those as well? Perhaps you want to regulate that also?
So clamping an unborn child at the neck and feet so that the torso remains undamaged in order to retrieve organs is what?
2
Abortion is a hot-button issue ONLY because the Republicans, bereft of anything real or important to discuss, and it being the onset of a campaign they cannot afford to lose, are frantically and fanatically searching for something - ANYTHING - they can find to entice gullible American voters to choose one of their candidates to be the next President (and sustain and strengthen their congressional majorities). I challange anyone to show anything the GOP has done in the past 35 years that has proven to have benefitted America in any way whatsoever
43
"anything the GOP has done in the past 35 years that has proven to have benefitted America in any way whatsoever "
Therein lies the difference between us...while I am no fan of the GOP, I am not of the belief that government should do ANYTHING to benefit us. Furthermore, the question as stated is kind of silly. Your question infers that each party should govern/legislate as separate entities that ignore the will/influence of their counterpart. America's true genius is compromise, and that genius was quickly diminshed under president Obama (see 100% partisan vote on the ACA in Congress). Accordingly, the us vs them attitude is only serving to divide and destroy America. I digress. To get back to your question, let me share this with you:
Golden rule: Anything the government can give you, it can take away.
To apply that rule: I could care less if Planned Parenthood exists, but I care greatly that my tax dollars are given to Planned Parenthood because I don't believe tax dollars should be given to any organization, no matter what they do - take controversy out of it.
Result: Now that federal money has been given, you don't like the idea of it being taken away.
There's a lot that can be said of the rules of supply, demand, and effective budgeting.
Therein lies the difference between us...while I am no fan of the GOP, I am not of the belief that government should do ANYTHING to benefit us. Furthermore, the question as stated is kind of silly. Your question infers that each party should govern/legislate as separate entities that ignore the will/influence of their counterpart. America's true genius is compromise, and that genius was quickly diminshed under president Obama (see 100% partisan vote on the ACA in Congress). Accordingly, the us vs them attitude is only serving to divide and destroy America. I digress. To get back to your question, let me share this with you:
Golden rule: Anything the government can give you, it can take away.
To apply that rule: I could care less if Planned Parenthood exists, but I care greatly that my tax dollars are given to Planned Parenthood because I don't believe tax dollars should be given to any organization, no matter what they do - take controversy out of it.
Result: Now that federal money has been given, you don't like the idea of it being taken away.
There's a lot that can be said of the rules of supply, demand, and effective budgeting.
1
I've asked that question of my Republican friends and have never gotten a response.
Wow! What a vivid imagination.
I think that the issue is not what this editorial is about. It is really about killing a potential human being. Have we strayed so far from what the Nazi regime did with medical experiments that we can't see the forest for the trees? Yes, woman are distressed as pregnancy is accepted differently by each individual pregnant female. I would of probably of had an abortion in the right time but was only legal in New York. Having been emotionally abused as a child, my emotional tolerance for being pregnant 3 months after my first child was born was not something that I was dealing with well. Luckily, a friend tried to help me through those few months and I had an easy pregnancy. My husband did get a vasectomy that fall so I didn't have to have any more children. The whole issue of sex, pregnancy prevention, the dynamics of the emotional well being of women is not discussed while children are at home before puberty. My daughter said to me once that it should be mandatory that all women be on birth control once they got their periods because few have any understanding of their bodies or an ability to prevent pregnancy when they are teenagers. because they shouldn't be having sex at that age but do, and their is little talk about it in the first place.
14
The same people who decry abortion also decry birth control. Inconsistent? Or the belief that women who have sex should be punished by getting pregnant?
1
You are so sad. I do feel sorry for you in your inability to grasp the fundamentals of this issue.
If Mr. Daleiden had carried out a similar hidden-camera sting in a commercial slaughterhouse, he'd be facing criminal charges.
Not saying he should be, just saying.
Not saying he should be, just saying.
18
This situation could have at least one positive outcome. It could cost the Republicans the 2016 presidential election. If you think this is an exaggeration, remember: A few years ago, an attempt to de-fund cancer screening grants to Planned Parenthood damaged the Susan G. Komen foundation almost to the point of destruction. American women love and passionately support Planned Parenthood. GOP leaders rushing to vilify the organization will be the Todd Akins of the upcoming election cycle. They are clueless about how women will react. When they feel the political consequences of what they see as low-risk, expedient attacks on Planned Parenthood, they won't know what hit them.
19
Perhaps some Americans love and passionately support planned parenthood but not all. If they all did it wouldn't need government funding. Listening to the two "medical directors" makes me shutter. Whatever you think of abortion, their approach was gruesome and uncaring.
7
@Bill: Millions of Americans love Medicare and Social Security, both of which need government funding. Your argument doesn't track.
2
If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one. Why are (mostly) Republicans for smaller government, except in the case of women's private decisions about their own bodies? It is a puzzle to me.
44
My body is mine, and will remain so right through my chosen death. Apparently men think this is a right they reserve to themselves only. If I were in Congress I would constantly sponsor legislation that would deny men treatment for anything that happens to their genito-urinary area, no matter if it is a disease, an accident, or whatever. If they can do this to women, women should do this to men.
5
If you don't believe in capital punishment don't get executed. Your empty slogan is neither clever or on point.
2
Abortions are not federally funded. It is a moniscule part of their mission which is over all health and family planning so making abortion a last case scenario.
Also, most women who get abortions are the very young or older women who do not wish to have more children. In both circumstances, they are accompanied by the father . Their minds were made up long before they stepped foot outside their vehicles and no amount of shouting or vaginal probes are going to change a decision they made very privately. So, when they collectively choose to terminate their pregnancy and wish to donate for medical research the fetal tissue, what business is it of anyone?
Also, most women who get abortions are the very young or older women who do not wish to have more children. In both circumstances, they are accompanied by the father . Their minds were made up long before they stepped foot outside their vehicles and no amount of shouting or vaginal probes are going to change a decision they made very privately. So, when they collectively choose to terminate their pregnancy and wish to donate for medical research the fetal tissue, what business is it of anyone?
30
More homegrown religious terrorists attempting to force the rest of us normal people to live under their theocracy.
Little difference between these yahoos and ISIS.
Little difference between these yahoos and ISIS.
44
Rand Paul, ted Cruz, and assorted other pontificating poppycock pushers are dischargin their congressional duties dishonorably and should be dishonorably discharged. If only this were possible.
10
I thought the battle for equality was won years ago, at least that is what the history books teach. Now we have "enslaved" a new group - women. That self-righteous MEN are taking away the rights of women to control their own bodies is horrible. Then, they punish poor women by limiting or withdrawing financial support for the child they are forced to carry because they can't access birth control or abortions. We have become a third world country with a collective dictator regime! God help my daughters and granddaughters!
47
That's some pretty twisted logic. God help your daughters? You're kidding right; that's what the pro-lifers are trying to do.
Especially those still in the womb.
1
Call it what you will. Spin it a million different ways. Parade out all those words like "research", "caring","high-quality", etc. The bottom line is that these videos do serve to confirm that abortion and the harvesting of human tissue is very disturbing to many. That doctors and other medical professionals would engage in such calculated medical procedures and then talk about it as if was nothing more than simply removing a component of some value and then redistributing them, is beyond kind words. It may be legal, but it's not right.
187
Yes, Fetal Lives Matter - you'd think the Progressives could rally around that slogan.
4
If "what is right" we're the criteria of law and our behavior then abandoning children once born, denying food, shelter, medical care, and education are hypocritical. If "what is right" were the law, then women are not treated as equals.
12
Of course it is disturbing to many. These videos are meant to inflame gullible, easily-deceived conservatives who have no place dictating the tenets of ethical scientific research. I assume, then, that you will decline treatments for any ailments you may have that can be treated via methods and materials derived from fetal tissue research?
Organizations will be ready if abortion is outlawed. They will be ready to coordinate the delivery of every unwanted newborn baby to churches and organizations like Mr. Daleiden's throughout the land that are known for their anti-choice positions. You want those babies, you can have them - on your doorsteps. Better start building your nurseries and saving for those college funds.
Organizations will be ready if abortion is outlawed. They will be ready to coordinate the delivery of every unwanted newborn baby to churches and organizations like Mr. Daleiden's throughout the land that are known for their anti-choice positions. You want those babies, you can have them - on your doorsteps. Better start building your nurseries and saving for those college funds.
19
I am assuming the author has not seen the videos?
10
Why do you assume that?
Do you prefer selective and highly edited clips to the entire conversation which shows that nothing illegal actually happened?
Do you prefer selective and highly edited clips to the entire conversation which shows that nothing illegal actually happened?
1
Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill that has been caught in the act. The videos do not lie and there is no way they can deceive us anymore. They are in the business of killing innocent babies and I am so glad their illegal behavior has been brought to light. I cannot wait until this organization becomes extinct. I am going to donate to my pro-life group to help them uncover what other devious activities they are doing. This is disgraceful. Over 50 million babies have been killed since Roe vs. Wade and this is murder.
16
Abortion is legal in this country. Get over it.
8
Abortion is legal and I, for one, am fed up with attempts to limit it. As a taxpayer I WANT the government to fund abortions for poor women.
3
I just donated to Planned Parenthood so they can continue to provide reproductive services.
2
From a legal perspective, the abortion battle has been fought. The NYT has done a lousy job covering this, however. For those of you who have not seen the second video, whatever your view of abortion, it is likely to make you cringe. The reporting I have seen does not talk about the substance of what was said and the possible lawbreaking that was being discussed. It is a sign of the Times and our time, that it is so difficult to have an honest discussion on divisive issues.
18
Thank you New York Times for debunking the lies being perpetuated by Republican politicians and their handmaidens in anti women's health crimes.
30
Perhaps this is a sign that some Republicans will take the gloves off... After all, Democrats habitually justify their means based upon their end game. The likes of President Obama, Harry Reid, and Susan Rice, to name a few prominent ELECTED officials (except Ms Rice) in the Democrats camp, lied outright to the American public (repeatedly no less), or shall we say, "they were dishonest or grossly misleading" when they said "you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan", "Mitt Romney didn't pay taxes for 10 years", "the attack in Benghazi was the result of a youtube video." Shall we even start on Ms. Clinton? How about Lois Lerner?
I could go on and on, but what's the point?
Politics is a dirty game folks - ethics and morality, in large part, do not exist on either side, but some people like to pretend that "their party is more upstanding." Give me a break. Wake me up when this country move political discussions away from social issues and divisiveness, and towards national security, employment, and the economy. I won't hold my breath though - these lifelong public servants/lawyers spend 50% of their time campaigning/fundraising and the remainder of their time is divvied up between personal time and what they are elected to do - govern. And even the time spent governing is wasted on regulating what dish detergent/light bulbs I can use, and allocating my tax dollars to, amongst other frivolous and wasteful things, shrimp on a treadmill. It's time for a revolution.
I could go on and on, but what's the point?
Politics is a dirty game folks - ethics and morality, in large part, do not exist on either side, but some people like to pretend that "their party is more upstanding." Give me a break. Wake me up when this country move political discussions away from social issues and divisiveness, and towards national security, employment, and the economy. I won't hold my breath though - these lifelong public servants/lawyers spend 50% of their time campaigning/fundraising and the remainder of their time is divvied up between personal time and what they are elected to do - govern. And even the time spent governing is wasted on regulating what dish detergent/light bulbs I can use, and allocating my tax dollars to, amongst other frivolous and wasteful things, shrimp on a treadmill. It's time for a revolution.
16
Didn't you leave out the huge lies that got us into Iraq, the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American public, resulting in the worst foreign policy in US history? How soon we forget.
3
Democrats who continue to accuse Republicans of being hate filled is a dangerous social and political strategy. Bernie bashing rich people and Hillary blaming Republicans for everything else may be great theatrics, but is not the kind of leadership this country needs. It's very sad how Democrats are pitting one group against another - black against white, women against men and rich against the middle class. Why do Democrats continue to divide the nation with this campaign policy of class division and demonizing Republican candidates?
Who chose this comment as a NYT pick. What extraordinary motive gave the illogic of this comment inclusion? Benghazi? "Keeping your doctor" with the ACA.? Regulation?
"It is time for a revolution" indeed. Let's start with logic, and hysteria as unsuitable inclusions in a discussion of fetal rights vs women's rights.
"It is time for a revolution" indeed. Let's start with logic, and hysteria as unsuitable inclusions in a discussion of fetal rights vs women's rights.
1
This attack on the full equality of women and their freedom to control their own bodies is all the pandering extremists have left on which to run a campaign. Obamacare? Undisputed law of the land. Gay marriage? Yesterday's news. Mass Incarceration and the War on Drugs? So Clinton and the 90's. Income Inequality? The 1% are now almost universally reviled, and more importantly, mocked. Heck, even campaign finance reform, the wonkiest of all issues, is getting major play. As the defeat of conservative ideology picks up steam and becomes a route, abortion is the last, red meat issue on which they can raise funds. Good luck with that. If recent history is any guide, their obsession with an issue is normally a precursor to a major defeat. If anyone can make the vast majority of Americans pro-choice, these folks can.
510
Actually we are talking not about their bodies, but about the rights of those whose bodies growing within them, many of which will become women if not killed before they even get a chance see the light of day.
1
I plan to increase my annual donation to Planned Parenthood.
They provide very important services to women of all ages, especially low income women, including many students.
They provide very important services to women of all ages, especially low income women, including many students.
3
Do you not see the gruesome truth that our culture talks like the end of a potential life like it's nothing? The representative discussed crushing fetal body parts while she ate and drank, all like it's nothing. Being pro-choice is one thing, but condoning this culture that dehumanizes and devalues a terminated life like this is disgusting. I'll keep you all in my prayers.
The NY Times often commissions great visuals and graphics to accompany many articles. This editorial should have included visualization of a few 20 month old "fetuses" having his/her head crushed to preserve hearts and livers.
27
The Times would never produce anything that assists a cause it opposes. It is simply too partisan.
3
I challenge the NYTimes to post late-term abortion videos on its website, alongside all of your other fine videos. If you believe in the right of abortion, then own it and show your readers what it entails, unflinchingly, proudly. Show ultrasound videos of babies in the womb of the same age as those abortions ... or do you fear that showing such videos would trigger an overpowering wave of revulsion? I think not. I think young women would still approve of abortions, so please post those videos that demonstrate your convictions.
18
I've personally known several women who have had to have late-term abortions. I say "had to have", because neither of these women or their husbands wanted this outcome. The decision was incredibly painful, but necessary for the woman's health. I hope your daughter or granddaughter never needs this procedure; but, if she does, I hope it will be available to her legally.
1
Late-term abortions are very rare. Why choose something so very rare to maintain your fight?
We are sending the babies to you. Be prepared. Save your money. You'd better start saving now, as you are going to have a lot of babies to raise.
We are sending the babies to you. Be prepared. Save your money. You'd better start saving now, as you are going to have a lot of babies to raise.
1
When will the media stop referring to these charlatans and unethical actors as pro-life and refer to them as what they are? Anti-choice. Anti-medicine. Anti-women's health. Anti-knowledge. The time is long past for worrying about offending their tender sensibilities. These people will say anything, do anything and harm anyone in their efforts to protect a fetus while caring nothing for living women. It's shameful.
57
Lets call them Anti Abortion and the other side Pro Abortion. That will make things clearer. The choice is an abortion.
2
Bill Cosby has been castigated for serving Mickey Finns so as to take advantage of women, but the Republican party serves them to America by the pitcher-full all the time. The biggest news story of the day is the continual collective misinformation of the Republican party and its operatives. Deception and misinformation needs to be seriously confronted and challenged by news agencies and journalists on a 24/7 basis. Too many people are getting screwed by it.
33
The self-righteous and deceptive men who have produced the edited videos as well as the pandering politicians might consider vasectomies. This would eliminate the need for reproductive medical care in their families, and their families are the only business that should concern them.
27
It is not surprising that there is a confluence of demagogues, mainly Republican, the uneasy fact that most Americans oppose abortion but favor a woman's right to choose, an upcoming presidential election which lends itself to "wedge" issues like immigration and abortion rights and impending legislation. This can certainly have unpredictable outcomes including pushing independents who might otherwise favor change to vote Democratic to sustain a woman's right to choose. Now if that independent is concerned about Israel's survival and is pro-choice and if there is a woman on the ballot who is likely to be supportive of Israel (unlike the current president) and pro-choice.....
2
These videos do show an icky side of abortion; "transferring for a handling fee" pieces of the babies (I'm sorry, fetuses) to labs.
It is like Joseph Conrad wrote in his masterpiece "Heart of Darkness": those who eat meat prefer it to be civilly packaged for them by the butcher, so they don't need to think about the savagery of it all.
It is like Joseph Conrad wrote in his masterpiece "Heart of Darkness": those who eat meat prefer it to be civilly packaged for them by the butcher, so they don't need to think about the savagery of it all.
20
Ironic isn't that the biggest seller of body parts is the Red Cross...Protected by these same wingers from product liability should the part be contaminated or diseased... And what about all the organs collected from donors. These too are not free. That bone marrow transplant??? Not free either. Nothing to the donor but the agencies and doctors involve all charge a fee.
434
This is something I hadn't thought of and would love the NYT to write a piece on.
1
...and look at all of the money the Red Cross can't account for in Haitian relief. I had their number when they did not do blood tests on donors during the AIDS epidemic because it was too costly.
And let us now forget how easily the Red Cross was misled at Theresienstadt, a way-station to Auschwitz gussied up as the "Paradise Ghetto."
And let us now forget how easily the Red Cross was misled at Theresienstadt, a way-station to Auschwitz gussied up as the "Paradise Ghetto."
1
No one was killed to provide those parts, doctor?
1
The problem here was the naiveté of the Planned Parenthood folks. Never trust a religious fanatic. They are like rabid skunks masquerading in mink coats. In two words: Abort Superstition!
18
The Editorial Board should have waited before writing this OpEd as the second video, released Tuesday morning, emasculates their fundamental position.
20
The video is heavily edited and omits the legal and ethical statements made. The video is, like its creator, a deceptive fraud.
1
They have posted all three hours so you can watch it in its entirety. Don't blame the messenger because you don't like the message.
This was a political hit job, plain and simple. Republican lawmakers were informed about it weeks in advance in order to plan their attacks. They plan to drag this out all through election season. "Rep. Trent Franks (R-Az) said that he knew about the video a month ago but was waiting to get all the information in place so he could alert the authorities before the media." http://www.salon.com/2015/07/20/the_most_terrifying_thing_about_gop_abor...
It’s no surprise that one of the three who comprise this little team of political hitmen is also the head of Operation Rescue, the group that targeted the Wichita office of Dr. George Tiller, who was gunned down in his church in 2009 by an Operation Rescue member.
http://www.thenation.com/article/whos-behind-the-planned-parenthood-stin...
These men are hell-bent on taking away women’s rights, all the while waving the flag, crying freedom. They have found that shooting doctors doesn’t give good press, so, now this. They must know that desperate women who have no place to turn will do desperate things. Religious zealots who cry "murder" at the removal of pre-viable or non-viable fetal tissue will be responsible for driving poor women to self-mutilation and worse. They don’t care whose lives they ruin, as long as they win.
We need to hold them accountable for their nefarious acts by voting every misogynist out of office.
It’s no surprise that one of the three who comprise this little team of political hitmen is also the head of Operation Rescue, the group that targeted the Wichita office of Dr. George Tiller, who was gunned down in his church in 2009 by an Operation Rescue member.
http://www.thenation.com/article/whos-behind-the-planned-parenthood-stin...
These men are hell-bent on taking away women’s rights, all the while waving the flag, crying freedom. They have found that shooting doctors doesn’t give good press, so, now this. They must know that desperate women who have no place to turn will do desperate things. Religious zealots who cry "murder" at the removal of pre-viable or non-viable fetal tissue will be responsible for driving poor women to self-mutilation and worse. They don’t care whose lives they ruin, as long as they win.
We need to hold them accountable for their nefarious acts by voting every misogynist out of office.
1128
Maybe there should be a tax surcharge to those who advocate for the anti abortion protesters to compensate the government for expenses generated by unwanted children. An extra 20% income tax assessment might shut them up.
1
But, of course, you ignore one salient fact: The Planned Parenthood doctors SAID WHAT THEY MEANT TO SAY. And it was horrific.
1
Political hit jobs are often highly effective in bringing about change. Think of Romney and his 47% comments. Were you complaining then?
1
Lawmakers who reward deception on this or any other issue are like Bill Cosby -- serving America a Mickey Finn so as to . . . uh, . . . take advantage of us.
12
Your constitution guarantees freedom of speech, not accuracy.
5
It also doesn't require truthfulness.
Our constitution doesn't protect libel and slander as free speech.
1
Perhaps what we need far more than another investigation into and condemnation of abortion by Congress, is an investigation into behavior and condemnation of CONGRESS. What can these people be thinking, endlessly wasting taxpayer money with these ridiculous religionistic panderings. Abortion should be a regulated medical procedure, but beyond that should be a private matter. For those who selfishly believe all "life" is so sacred that humans must never be prohibited from procreation, you condemn all humanity to increasingly more difficult living conditions on this increasingly more crowded planet. What we really need to do is make affordable contraception easily available for all, and FREE for the poor, who suffer the most from the inability to care for multiple offspring. Even better, let's eliminate tax exemption status for religion, which would bring our country back into better balance. The real problem here is that we have too many people on the planet competing for scarce resources.
937
This is a good wish, but an impossible one. Politics is prostitution by people who have to pay for a date, and these guys prostitute themselves to people unfit to be even toilet paper.
Amen. I would add that while investigations of Congress may be lacking, I don't think the country could condemn Congress much more than we already have... what's their approval rating anyway these days?
1
GMR, you might have a valid argument if it was for the fact that we as taxpayers fund about 10% of Planned Parenthood's operations each year. If you want religiously minded conservatives to move away from the issue some, then I propose that liberals should demand that taxpayer funding of PP stop immediately. That way, people will be forced to pay for the full cost of their abortions without taxpayers subsidies, and although the practice will still disgust many people, conservatives would not be able to complain quite as much. You want a separation of church and state? Then stop tying religiously controversial matters in the social sphere with taxpayer money, plain and simple. And if it is that important to CREDO and other major corporate donors of Planned Parenthood to provide these "vital" services for women, they will raise the money to make up the lack of taxpayer funding like every other business in American has to.
But I doubt that you would ever consider that as an option, instead I would gander that you would rather be the typical Liberal Fascist who demands that everyone follow your beliefs and pay for other people's life choices regardless of their own personal beliefs.
But I doubt that you would ever consider that as an option, instead I would gander that you would rather be the typical Liberal Fascist who demands that everyone follow your beliefs and pay for other people's life choices regardless of their own personal beliefs.
Planned Parenthood and the New York Times want the issue to be about whether Planned Parenthood illegally harvests and sells human organs for profit. The Times ignored the evidence from the video where Dr. Nucatola admitted that Planned Parenthood affiliates sometimes try to do a little better than break even, but whether they profit or not is a trivial matter compared to the underlying issue of what is happening at Planned Parenthood facilities. The fact that Planned Parenthood affiliates purposely crush a human being in a specific way that allows them to traffic in that human being's organs is not ameliorated by making it a non-profit endeavor. In the video, Dr. Nucatola forthrightly talks of hearts, lungs, and livers. But in what must be the most grotesque case of Orwellian language I have ever witnessed, Planned Parenthood and the Times revert to the language of "fetal tissue" in public.
23
L particularly liked the new one about the PP woman talking about "crunchy" body parts, and how to avoid them.
14
I'm sorry.
This is indefensible.
It just is.
I don't care how you try to spin it.
If it weren't a profit-making scheme there'd be no need for lunchtime negotiations. The center would already know what the costs are and just say it. This is obscene. It is evil. I don't even know how anybody could possibly defend it. It's hideous.
This is indefensible.
It just is.
I don't care how you try to spin it.
If it weren't a profit-making scheme there'd be no need for lunchtime negotiations. The center would already know what the costs are and just say it. This is obscene. It is evil. I don't even know how anybody could possibly defend it. It's hideous.
37
I donate blood, yet the blood banks charge hospitals for each unit. Is that a profit making scheme? There is a cost involved for the storage and transportation of tissue. The fetal tissue involved has been voluntarily donated. Wait until you or one of your relatives stands to benefit from research involving fetal tissue or stem cells. Are you going to refuse on moral grounds? Think about it.
1
Your next editorial may want to address the method of "extraction" described whereby some parts of the unborn baby are "crushed" to preserve others. The manipulation of the baby is clearly illegal and disgusting. You may also want to note that some of these babies would have been capable of living outside the womb, but, literally, will never see the light of day.
22
Most readers call the release of this video a continuation on the war against women. It's no such thing. It simply shows PP arranging the sale of aborted fetus tissue. Either that ok or its not.
As for a woman's right to chose abortion because its her body - that's a fine position to take. But then please explain why Obamacare forces that same woman to carry a given level of healthcare?
If a woman has the right to abort a fetus then she has the right to determine what - if any - healthcare she carries, without penalty.
As for a woman's right to chose abortion because its her body - that's a fine position to take. But then please explain why Obamacare forces that same woman to carry a given level of healthcare?
If a woman has the right to abort a fetus then she has the right to determine what - if any - healthcare she carries, without penalty.
12
This is one of the worst cases of false equivalence I've seen to date. We're required to have health care for the same reason we're required to have auto insurance, homeowners insurance etc., so that someone else doesn't get stuck paying the bills, it's called responsible behavior.
When it comes to reproduction, using reliable contraception if responsible behavior, get behind the effort to promote it if abortion bothers you.
When it comes to reproduction, using reliable contraception if responsible behavior, get behind the effort to promote it if abortion bothers you.
1
I have to wonder why jackals like these idiots and O'Keefe are not under federal investigation and charges for fraud. Since they use interstate commerce to do this they would fall squarely under the FBI's auspices.
These jerks are not doing honest investigative work they are trying to and unfortunately in the case of ACORN all to succesful in destroying honest business' through dishonest means.
These jerks are not doing honest investigative work they are trying to and unfortunately in the case of ACORN all to succesful in destroying honest business' through dishonest means.
26
I support Planned Parenthood and all such organisations. It was pretty daft, however, in my view, not to say naive, for Dr Nucatola to sit for two hours over a liquid lunch in an eating house discussing Planned Parenthood's foetal organ disposal policies with a couple she didn't know from Adam and Eve. I hope that Planned Parenthood has learnt some hard lessons. There are wackos everywhere - and for some unaccountable reason the Land of the Free seems to have more than its fair share. Hence, Planned Parenthood needs to maintain a constant vigil, and never let its guard down.
46
Sounds like some of the wackos work at PP.
All of us should always be aware that in this day and age anything we say or do could be recorded. If we're doing something in public that we wouldn't want the rest of the world to know about we need to either change our behavior or conduct that behavior behind closed doors.
I see your logic.
So apparently there is no problem in what the Doctors do or say but only that they talk to the wrong people.
I would guess that this is similar to the problem with Nixon which would not be what he did or said but that he put it on tape.
Or bluntly do whatever you want just don't be stupid enough to get caught.
So apparently there is no problem in what the Doctors do or say but only that they talk to the wrong people.
I would guess that this is similar to the problem with Nixon which would not be what he did or said but that he put it on tape.
Or bluntly do whatever you want just don't be stupid enough to get caught.
1
This is criminal. Those with knowledge of this deception should be prosecuted very publicly.
20
What is wrong with these people? I'll never understand why they think they have any good reason to get so wound up about women's rights. It's hard to maintain respect for the opinions of anyone who counts themselves amongst the "pro-lifers" when their cause gets hijacked by fanatics on a regular basis.
13
Lying is endemic to the Republican Party. It is not merely a tactic or strategy, it has become part of their DNA. How else do you get people to vote against their own best interests, and support the greedy designs of people like the Koch Brothers or Donald Trump?
They create bills to allow companies like Koch Industries to pollute our environment and call them names like The Clear Skies Initiative. They lie about WMD to get us into wars, and they lie about committing acts of torture. They lie about health care, about Obama's birth certificate, about voter id laws, about John Kerry's war record, about the economy, about education, about Social Security, and about every issue that comes across their desks. And yes, they lie about women and women's rights and Planned Parenthood.
The Republican Party hasn't told the truth since 1960, when President Eisenhower warned us about the Military/Industrial Complex as he left office.
Nixon wasn't the only liar, he was just the one who got caught.
They create bills to allow companies like Koch Industries to pollute our environment and call them names like The Clear Skies Initiative. They lie about WMD to get us into wars, and they lie about committing acts of torture. They lie about health care, about Obama's birth certificate, about voter id laws, about John Kerry's war record, about the economy, about education, about Social Security, and about every issue that comes across their desks. And yes, they lie about women and women's rights and Planned Parenthood.
The Republican Party hasn't told the truth since 1960, when President Eisenhower warned us about the Military/Industrial Complex as he left office.
Nixon wasn't the only liar, he was just the one who got caught.
65
There is a particular political ideology that embraces "the big lie," scapegoating of minorities, opposes women's rights, opposes labor rights and favors corporations over people. It isn't conservative.
1
So the counselors encourage the woman to get an abortion and then profit from the sale of the fetal tissues and organs. What part of this illegal activity doesn't the NYT Editorial Board get? This isn't a deception against PP it is an expose or their illegal activities.
12
Did you read the editorial? The point is that there is no selling of fetal tissue involved and no taking of profits.
8
"So the counselors encourage the woman to get an abortion and then profit from the sale of the fetal tissues and organs. What part of this illegal activity doesn't the NYT Editorial Board get?"
"Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue.”
Deep breaths, Mr. Sullivan. Deep Breaths.
"Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue.”
Deep breaths, Mr. Sullivan. Deep Breaths.
5
Um, that they don't profit from it, actually.
That it is legal.
That donated fetal tissue is used in important medical research.
That it is legal.
That donated fetal tissue is used in important medical research.
2
Interesting, isn't it that the folks who carry on such nefarious taping and editing have not problem with dishonesty as long as it serves their cause. Once a tape is edited to make certain points, we have no idea what it really said. There are comments about the casual way that the doctor spoke of providing fetal tissue/body parts, but in a piece filmed and edited by folks with an agenda we cannot know anything about what the doctor actually said or about what her demeanor truly was.
30
The level of hypocrisy is fantastic. Lawmakers have made it their business to ensure that Planned Parenthood is perpetually cash starved and unsustainable in many states. But they go berserk when the outfit collects some minor handling fees on tissue donation to help keep their heads above water. Incredible.
45
Define, please, how "women's reproductive rights" include the intentional death of viable fetuses.
Or how hidden cameras are all-of-a-sudden taboo when this paper would surely revel in the same were the targets white red-necks in Mississippi.
But you can't, for there is no longer any intellectual honesty (on either side) when the issues that most divide us are discussed.
So maybe this is a time of liminality where we should step back from intentional provocations.
And instead begin to incorporate the real and growing fundamental divisions between Americans.
In ways unseen since the Civil War.
Or how hidden cameras are all-of-a-sudden taboo when this paper would surely revel in the same were the targets white red-necks in Mississippi.
But you can't, for there is no longer any intellectual honesty (on either side) when the issues that most divide us are discussed.
So maybe this is a time of liminality where we should step back from intentional provocations.
And instead begin to incorporate the real and growing fundamental divisions between Americans.
In ways unseen since the Civil War.
10
You missed the part about editing the hidden camera footage to distort the message.
3
Dear Sven Svensson,
1. The aborted fetuses are not viable.
2. No one is objecting to the hidden camera here, rather to the editing and use out of context of just a few words which, when listened to do not state what they are purported to state anyway.
3. This situation does represent "the real and growing fundamental divisions between Americans." There are those who would like all the power to control everyone else and those who cherish our freedom.
1. The aborted fetuses are not viable.
2. No one is objecting to the hidden camera here, rather to the editing and use out of context of just a few words which, when listened to do not state what they are purported to state anyway.
3. This situation does represent "the real and growing fundamental divisions between Americans." There are those who would like all the power to control everyone else and those who cherish our freedom.
3
A curious defense of the misuse of technology to prove a lie. The divisions to which you refer are real, but the best approach to handling them is to promote a frank and honest discussion of the issues involved, not to use deception and inflammatory rhetoric to exacerbate tensions that might be eased by a spirit of compromise. Your thinly veiled reference to the antebellum dispute over slavery suggests that you believe a zero-sum approach serves as a model for the resolution of all contentious issues. This is dangerous nonsense which would threaten the stability of any democratic society.
8
My body my choice. Why is it that we invariably find out that the most virulent anti choice people are those that either HAD an abortion, or had a daughter or niece or grandmother or mother or aunt or girlfriend or wife or someone that had an abortion - on demand and with impunity...!?!?
13
The NYT has responded to this story in the most predictable of ways: a "straight" news story that goes after the anti-abortion activist and an editorial doing the same exact thing.
Neither the news article nor this editorial makes no mention of the contents of the second video, in which the PP staffer makes it clear that she is aware that some of their practices regarding fetal tissue collection violate clearly stated rules but to her those rules constitute a "specious little argument".
Perhaps the NYT should report all of the facts before it starts accusing others of failing to do likewise. Certainly the facts should come before partisan demonization, but then again, this is the NYT.
Neither the news article nor this editorial makes no mention of the contents of the second video, in which the PP staffer makes it clear that she is aware that some of their practices regarding fetal tissue collection violate clearly stated rules but to her those rules constitute a "specious little argument".
Perhaps the NYT should report all of the facts before it starts accusing others of failing to do likewise. Certainly the facts should come before partisan demonization, but then again, this is the NYT.
33
hahaha funny. the first video clearly proves the lengths that your friends will go to manipulate the truth, so frankly there's really no need to believe anything you say.
2
I love how you rail against "partisan demonization" and then end your comment by doing just that. Classic!
1
Seriously, Chris?
I must confess that I consistently marvel at conservatives, like you, who sputter and fume and denounce what you allege to be the slipshod journalistic practices of the New York Times--while simultaneously insisting that you've actually read the article(s) you denounce--let alone the entire paper on a regular basis.
To use your words: "Certainly the facts should come before partisan demonization, but then again, this is the NYT."
Really, it strains credulity to believe--given your professed opinion of the paper--that you're expending value time reading it.
I must confess that I consistently marvel at conservatives, like you, who sputter and fume and denounce what you allege to be the slipshod journalistic practices of the New York Times--while simultaneously insisting that you've actually read the article(s) you denounce--let alone the entire paper on a regular basis.
To use your words: "Certainly the facts should come before partisan demonization, but then again, this is the NYT."
Really, it strains credulity to believe--given your professed opinion of the paper--that you're expending value time reading it.
20
Rand Paul, Bobby Jindal, Gregg Abbot, Ted Cruz....Don't hold your breath for an apology.
But the one thing that we can do is to reframe what Pro Life really means. Henceforth, anyone who supports pre- and post natal infant and maternal visits for the poor and vulnerable --to address the US's shameful world ranking of 48-50 for infant and maternal mortality-- is Pro Life. Anyone who supports open access to contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies is Pro Life. Anyone providing consultations on planning pregnancies is Pro Life. Anyone legally providing donated fetal tissue to bonafide research institutions so they can advance medical knowledge of debilitating human illnesses and maladies is Pro Life. Anyone supporting expansion of Medicare for the poor and vulnerable are Pro Life. Anyone supporting increase in minimum wages, unemployment insurance, protecting social security, quality schooling for all and gun control is Pro Life. Anyone who supports tax reform so that more job creating, infrastructure rehabilitating Federal programs can be undertaken is Pro Life. And those supporting Pro Choice are also Pro Life. The others are Pro Conception --nothing more and certainly not Pro Life.
But the one thing that we can do is to reframe what Pro Life really means. Henceforth, anyone who supports pre- and post natal infant and maternal visits for the poor and vulnerable --to address the US's shameful world ranking of 48-50 for infant and maternal mortality-- is Pro Life. Anyone who supports open access to contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies is Pro Life. Anyone providing consultations on planning pregnancies is Pro Life. Anyone legally providing donated fetal tissue to bonafide research institutions so they can advance medical knowledge of debilitating human illnesses and maladies is Pro Life. Anyone supporting expansion of Medicare for the poor and vulnerable are Pro Life. Anyone supporting increase in minimum wages, unemployment insurance, protecting social security, quality schooling for all and gun control is Pro Life. Anyone who supports tax reform so that more job creating, infrastructure rehabilitating Federal programs can be undertaken is Pro Life. And those supporting Pro Choice are also Pro Life. The others are Pro Conception --nothing more and certainly not Pro Life.
140
Well said.
Those others are not pro-anything, they are simply anti-woman, anti-abortion, anti-child and anti-family. They do not care about anyone who has already been born, only about getting their own way when it comes to controlling others. Small government? Only in the sense that it has tentacles small enough to slither unwanted into women's bodies. Killing our (living) young people in huge senseless wars, trying to stop health care for (living) millions, cutting food stamps to (living) children - no problem. A fake company (with non-profit IRS status) to make fake videos? Standard mode for folks glutted on Fox (anti-) News - they have no problem falsifying whatever they want to try to get their way, and don't care who they hurt in the meantime. I sincerely hope none of their family members have been helped by the advances in treatments for diabetes, Parkinson's and other diseases made possible by those who chose to donate this NON-VIABLE tissue to research to save lives.
2
When the truth does not serve these crazies, they edit accordingly. It's disgusting because the last thing on their minds, despite their organization's name, is medicine. The strongest message we can send is a flood of contributions to local planned parenthood chapters and the national umbrella to demonstrate to the "leaders" in DC that most Americans understand and support their critical mission to extend women's healthcare. I just sent my modest gift; I only wish it could be more.
48
The entire unedited video (3 hours) is online. It is perfectly logical with something that long, to offer an edited version for the public. Anyone curious to see the whole thing has access to it, for free on the internet.
See it yourself and judge for yourself. Without hysteria and left wing pandering or mixing it up with other issues (birth control or mammograms). This is about organ selling. If you think that is OK, that's fine. Many of us are horrified.
See it yourself and judge for yourself. Without hysteria and left wing pandering or mixing it up with other issues (birth control or mammograms). This is about organ selling. If you think that is OK, that's fine. Many of us are horrified.
1
This editorial completely misses the point: DR. Nucatola was filmed CASUALLY discussing the dismemberment of what can only be another human being. This is consistent with the logic of legal abortion--the unborn baby--not an oxymoron--is a thing, parts, to be dismembered and thrown away, or sold.
Human organs. Not monkey hearts (PETA would be all over that), not cow livers, human livers.
This is the horror of abortion brought to its logical conclusion.
The NYTimes is saying it is for this whole thing once it admits--as it has done for years--that a woman should have the ability, approved by law, to have her
baby ripped from her womb and thrown away--or sold.
Human organs. Not monkey hearts (PETA would be all over that), not cow livers, human livers.
This is the horror of abortion brought to its logical conclusion.
The NYTimes is saying it is for this whole thing once it admits--as it has done for years--that a woman should have the ability, approved by law, to have her
baby ripped from her womb and thrown away--or sold.
32
Mike--
"to have her baby ripped from her womb and thrown away--or sold."
Shame on you. It is one thing to have strong views, but to make a statement like that is ridiculous. No one rips anything from anyones womb.
This is what the majority who are pro choice should take note of, and be wary of. A vocal minority who firmly believe that the end justifies the means, and who will say or do anything to achieve their goals. If people want to maintain their reproductive rights, they need to be prepared to get down and dirty themselves. They cannot simply count on logic and fairness protecting their rights, while under this kind of "say or do anything" attack.
"to have her baby ripped from her womb and thrown away--or sold."
Shame on you. It is one thing to have strong views, but to make a statement like that is ridiculous. No one rips anything from anyones womb.
This is what the majority who are pro choice should take note of, and be wary of. A vocal minority who firmly believe that the end justifies the means, and who will say or do anything to achieve their goals. If people want to maintain their reproductive rights, they need to be prepared to get down and dirty themselves. They cannot simply count on logic and fairness protecting their rights, while under this kind of "say or do anything" attack.
38
When you write "that a woman should have the ability, approved by law, to have her baby ripped from her womb," you write as if that woman has committed murder, which you probably believe. However, no one can definitively prove that life begins at any point before that baby is actually born and takes a breath, and that is one of the fallacies in the argument against abortion.
Your words also imply that women make the decision lightly, as if they get pregnant on purpose just to have one of those fun abortions, which is hardly the case. It is an agonizing decision and one that should be made between each woman and her physician.
But another big fallacy is that a woman should not have the right to make that decision. Access to abortion is the law of the land, whether you believe that it is the decision to murder made on a whim (it's not), or whether you believe the tissue removed constitutes a fully embodied human (we don't know). It has been decreed by our own Supreme Court that a woman DOES have the right to make that decision and have the procedure done.
So yes, The NYTimes and many, many of us are saying that no one should be able to make legislate that a woman must carry to term a fetus that is defective, a product of rape, or that would endanger the health and well being of that woman or her existing family.
This organization seeks to do more long-term damage to families than abortion could ever do, in permanently removing vital reproductive health options.
Your words also imply that women make the decision lightly, as if they get pregnant on purpose just to have one of those fun abortions, which is hardly the case. It is an agonizing decision and one that should be made between each woman and her physician.
But another big fallacy is that a woman should not have the right to make that decision. Access to abortion is the law of the land, whether you believe that it is the decision to murder made on a whim (it's not), or whether you believe the tissue removed constitutes a fully embodied human (we don't know). It has been decreed by our own Supreme Court that a woman DOES have the right to make that decision and have the procedure done.
So yes, The NYTimes and many, many of us are saying that no one should be able to make legislate that a woman must carry to term a fetus that is defective, a product of rape, or that would endanger the health and well being of that woman or her existing family.
This organization seeks to do more long-term damage to families than abortion could ever do, in permanently removing vital reproductive health options.
374
You should understand that all medical professionals discuss body parts casually and over lunch when with others they also take to be professionals. Doctors talk casually about extravagant harm done to organs and persons, including children, in the same way that accountants talk about money and politicians talk about deals. It may be chilling for outsiders to hear: I once overheard residents talking (too publicly though only for one another) about feeding a patient with intractable diarrhea a solutin containing feces -- it would work, but it was also funny and gave rise to jokes. I would hope that my doctors and other medical professionals I deal with are not squeamish about body parts of DEAD fetuses or dead people; and I hope the rest of us continue to be, and to understand the difference.
23
Opposition to groups like Planned Parenthood is the crack cocaine of the social conservative movement. It gets them high as a kite over the short term but makes others see them as dumber and more obnoxious over the long-term.
If groups like Planned Parenthood lost their funding, and family planning services were increasingly deprived to women, then an exponentially higher number of out-of-wedlock children would be born every year, a substantial number of which would require financial assistance from either federal or state government - which would also enrage social conservatives.
Abstinence does not work for Republican politicians, it does not work Catholic clergy, it does not work for women living in red states, and it does not work for America.
Human beings are sexual - deal with it. On a planet where population is exploding every year, and putting ever greater pressure on an already reeling ecosystem, family planning and contraception are among the best tools we have, especially if we sincerely intend to both survive as a species and make abortion rare but legal.
If groups like Planned Parenthood lost their funding, and family planning services were increasingly deprived to women, then an exponentially higher number of out-of-wedlock children would be born every year, a substantial number of which would require financial assistance from either federal or state government - which would also enrage social conservatives.
Abstinence does not work for Republican politicians, it does not work Catholic clergy, it does not work for women living in red states, and it does not work for America.
Human beings are sexual - deal with it. On a planet where population is exploding every year, and putting ever greater pressure on an already reeling ecosystem, family planning and contraception are among the best tools we have, especially if we sincerely intend to both survive as a species and make abortion rare but legal.
69
Why is it that PP cannot find donors willing to donate enough money to keep PP running? Why does the NYT editorial board not contribute more? Why does PP have to stick its fingers into my pockets via elected officials who are enacting "forced charity"?
I don't have any problem with PP's operations - I have a problem with PP's belief that it is entitled to my cash. As for "undermining women's reproductive rights" - If I didn't get her pregnant, PP is violating my rights by forcing me to pay to get her un-pregnant.
Women have ultimate power over their reproductive rights: They can avoid getting pregnant in the simplest, cheapest way possible - by avoiding intercourse. By taking wealth from me to pay for women's reproductive screw-ups, PP and its Liberal cheerleaders are creating ever more moral hazard.
I don't have any problem with PP's operations - I have a problem with PP's belief that it is entitled to my cash. As for "undermining women's reproductive rights" - If I didn't get her pregnant, PP is violating my rights by forcing me to pay to get her un-pregnant.
Women have ultimate power over their reproductive rights: They can avoid getting pregnant in the simplest, cheapest way possible - by avoiding intercourse. By taking wealth from me to pay for women's reproductive screw-ups, PP and its Liberal cheerleaders are creating ever more moral hazard.
15
@KarlosTJ - read the article - your precious dollars are not paying to get anyone "unpregnant." As to "avoiding intercourse," well women are raped; women are married. Planned Parenthood provides a host of women's reproductive services including exams, cancer screening, and contraception - another good way to not get pregnant. BTW - pregnancy is not just a woman's "reproductive screw-up." It takes two to tango.
20
Do you tell men to avoid intercourse?
7
@A-MH: While it does take both a woman and a man to "tango", if a woman avoids intercourse, then by definition no men are "tangoing" with her.
Plan "B" is cheap; I can accept government paying for it for any woman who is raped and files a police report, because the numbers will be small. But that's not PP's responsibility. My earned income should remain in my pockets - you should be free to contribute voluntarily to PP in order to support cancer screening, contraception, abortions, and even free automobiles if you so desire. Why do you insist that I be forced to obey your feelings? Again, that doesn't work with my right to liberty or pursuit of happiness - why are you insisting that my actual rights be violated?
Plan "B" is cheap; I can accept government paying for it for any woman who is raped and files a police report, because the numbers will be small. But that's not PP's responsibility. My earned income should remain in my pockets - you should be free to contribute voluntarily to PP in order to support cancer screening, contraception, abortions, and even free automobiles if you so desire. Why do you insist that I be forced to obey your feelings? Again, that doesn't work with my right to liberty or pursuit of happiness - why are you insisting that my actual rights be violated?
1
The right-wing and the Grand Old Propaganda machine does everything in their power to obscure truth and progress from Americans and continue their war on the mostly poor Americans who use Planned Parenthood for contraception and healthcare.
Of Planned Parenthood's 2009 services provided, 41% were for sexual transmitted disease/infection, 34% for contraception, 11% for pregnancy testing, 10% for cancer screening/prevention, 3% for abortions and 1% other.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood...
Looked at through a broader lense, 10% of PP used to have an abortion.
Planned parenthood also operates globally in Latin America and Africa to provide poor people with contraception.
The right wing also recently stopped funding for the most successful birth control program in the country, the Colorado plan that reduced teen pregnancy in Colorado by 40% and teen abortions by 35% over five years with low-cost/free IUDs.
http://goo.gl/jh56zU
“I am the first woman in my family not to experience an unintended pregnancy,” said Klaira Lerma, a supporter of Colorado's IUD program. “... I am the first woman in my family to obtain a bachelor’s degree. I am also the first woman in my family to obtain a master’s degree. These things are connected.”
America's rabid Christian Shariah law right-wing once again holds back progress and keeps people impoverished while exacerbating overpopulation and the lethal global warming it causes.
Nice people.
Of Planned Parenthood's 2009 services provided, 41% were for sexual transmitted disease/infection, 34% for contraception, 11% for pregnancy testing, 10% for cancer screening/prevention, 3% for abortions and 1% other.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood...
Looked at through a broader lense, 10% of PP used to have an abortion.
Planned parenthood also operates globally in Latin America and Africa to provide poor people with contraception.
The right wing also recently stopped funding for the most successful birth control program in the country, the Colorado plan that reduced teen pregnancy in Colorado by 40% and teen abortions by 35% over five years with low-cost/free IUDs.
http://goo.gl/jh56zU
“I am the first woman in my family not to experience an unintended pregnancy,” said Klaira Lerma, a supporter of Colorado's IUD program. “... I am the first woman in my family to obtain a bachelor’s degree. I am also the first woman in my family to obtain a master’s degree. These things are connected.”
America's rabid Christian Shariah law right-wing once again holds back progress and keeps people impoverished while exacerbating overpopulation and the lethal global warming it causes.
Nice people.
573
Religion will overpopulate Earth until the roads are so congested that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse will starve en route to Armageddon.
3
This is "3%" manipulation of statistics is preposterous and anyone one with basic skills can see it. PP counts a simple pregnancy test as a service equal to an abortion, which is nonsense. Their revenue complete depends on the 300,000 + annual abortions for which they charge $300 - $800 a pop.
If abortion and selling the dead baby parts is so unimportant to them, let them leave the abattoir business to non-governmental funded companies. But they won't, because that's where all the crushed and crunchy money is.
If abortion and selling the dead baby parts is so unimportant to them, let them leave the abattoir business to non-governmental funded companies. But they won't, because that's where all the crushed and crunchy money is.
The situation of the woman in Colorado is precisely the problem for the crazy right-wingers at the heart of this despicable scam. She is not being made to suffer for being a sexual being as a woman! She is not being held back in life by being kept barefoot and pregnant during her reproductive years! She is not following the social darwinist track they believe she should by being stuck in ignorance and poverty generation after generation as though she deserved it. All of her success feels like failure to these haters.
5
This all smacks of the propaganda films fostered by James O’Keefe: set up a situation with unsuspecting innocent targets, ask leading questions, and edit the film to get results that match your agenda. I really am sick and tired of the way gullible Americans and opportunistic politicians fall all over themselves when phony interviews from phony right-wing outfits like this one are dumped on the American public. These do nothing to help either side.
41
Yes, a 3-hour video must somehow be deceptive. Apparently sting videos are only supposed to be used on Republicans. Can you say, "47%?" I can't recall any outrage from liberals over that one, even though it was produced by a bartender at a private event.
Whatever happened to the Watergate reporters? They are long dead. Long live Planned Parenthood propaganda and Lamorghini Liberals living off of the taxpayer!
Whatever happened to the Watergate reporters? They are long dead. Long live Planned Parenthood propaganda and Lamorghini Liberals living off of the taxpayer!
15
The bartender was hoping to capture a moment of history, he didn't set out to entrap anyone and no one edited or distorted the video. See the difference?
2
Not at all analogous. Nobody set up Romney for that remark and edited the video. Nor was it put together by a front group dedicated to destroying him. He destroyed himself with that one.
2
Thanks for the reminder about the Romney video and the hypocrisy of The Times here. I don't know what's more sickening, the contents of those videos or the refusal to acknowledge their contents.
5
All this stupid sturm and drang just because the worthless oath-takers in Congress can't follow the law of the land governing them: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
There are no adults in charge in the US.
There are no adults in charge in the US.
22
If what the Times says is true then why were the PP people negotiating prices? They must know the cost for a procedure they have done thousands of times. Even Cecile Richards apologized so how can anyone claim deception? The Times is making an effort to make this about a legitimate group of investigators. Forget the fact that we fund PP with our tax dollars - what we hear on the video is just so morally wrong. They discuss "crushing" a humane life which has organs - liver heart - to sell for a profit. There is no defense from the Times just deception on their part.
22
They have been caught redhanded, with is pretty uncomfortable. Every conservative candidate will use this in the next campaign.
I agree -- if you do this all the time, and it is a minimal charge to cover your own costs, wouldn't you simply have a price sheet, that clearly says "we will accept $50 per organ for storage and retrieval"?
I also wonder what is on the paperwork that the patient sign -- does it tell them that their fetus will be crushed "just so", in order for its heart and liver to be extracted whole? Are they told how much money is being charged for these organs?
I agree -- if you do this all the time, and it is a minimal charge to cover your own costs, wouldn't you simply have a price sheet, that clearly says "we will accept $50 per organ for storage and retrieval"?
I also wonder what is on the paperwork that the patient sign -- does it tell them that their fetus will be crushed "just so", in order for its heart and liver to be extracted whole? Are they told how much money is being charged for these organs?
2
The fraud that continues to be perpetuated against pro-choice groups must be fully prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
These groups have lost their hate filled arguments in both the courts of law and public opinion. Since they have no merits and only faulty, misguided and pseudo-relgious rhetoric, they employ the uglies most dishonest tactics they can.
Women are not going back! Women will remain in charge and in control over their own health choices.
It is truly simple:
If you do not believe inabortion, do not have one!
These groups have lost their hate filled arguments in both the courts of law and public opinion. Since they have no merits and only faulty, misguided and pseudo-relgious rhetoric, they employ the uglies most dishonest tactics they can.
Women are not going back! Women will remain in charge and in control over their own health choices.
It is truly simple:
If you do not believe inabortion, do not have one!
42
The law is irrelevant to Christian Soldiers
2
And don't make the rest of us pay for one if you "choose" to have one.
Actually, they have grown in power -- the percentage of Americans who accept abortion on demand or late term abortion has FALLEN over 4 decades -- and many states now have restrictive laws about abortion. Some states have lost nearly all their abortion clinics, making it a "right" in theory only.
And yet you say "the discussion is over"? Ha! it's barely begun.
And yet you say "the discussion is over"? Ha! it's barely begun.
1
More than a little tired of seeing a bunch of guys opposing an organization promoting women's health issues, their beliefs so ingrained they think nothing of breaking the rules or fabricating evidence to impose their views on the rest of the country.
Don't these men have wives, sisters, daughters, aunts, nieces? I know they have mothers and wonder how those ladies feel watching their sons hellbent on making life more difficult for other women just because they oppose one of the many services they offer even though the Supreme Court deemed it legal over 40 years ago.
Seriously, guys. Give it up already.
Don't these men have wives, sisters, daughters, aunts, nieces? I know they have mothers and wonder how those ladies feel watching their sons hellbent on making life more difficult for other women just because they oppose one of the many services they offer even though the Supreme Court deemed it legal over 40 years ago.
Seriously, guys. Give it up already.
175
I guess you have never heard of Lila Rose? Why am I not surprised. Your DNC talking points are a little old.
8
The wives, sisters and daughters (and mistresses) of wealthy and influential men have always had, and always will have, access to safe, discreet termination of pregnancy.
48
Many of them believe that they have to do it for the post mortem benefit of life after death.
10
Why the outrage? At that point, the fetus is already dead.
Planned Parenthood does sell "fetal tissue" not "body parts". But, as the article states, they do not "make a profit" - the fees are only needed to cover their costs. If congress fully funded Planned Parenthood, then these fetal tissues could be "free".
Unless, of course, one finds the business of selling aborted fetus tissue wrong.
Planned Parenthood does sell "fetal tissue" not "body parts". But, as the article states, they do not "make a profit" - the fees are only needed to cover their costs. If congress fully funded Planned Parenthood, then these fetal tissues could be "free".
Unless, of course, one finds the business of selling aborted fetus tissue wrong.
13
The Republicans are getting down to the last few pages of their playbook: lies, more lies, and all lies.
108
To the self righteous nothing they do could possibly be wrong because they think God is on their side, this is what makes these people so extremely dangerous.
111
After the St Louis/Colorado studies which saw dramatic reductions in abortions, anti abortion' effort seems designed to keep US abortion rate high. Could keeping their funding high not abortions low be the real goal of the films? Funding for the entire Anti abortion and right to life industries are threatened by organised birth control efforts
37
The anti-abortion groups' aim is not to end abortions. If they wanted to do that, they'd donate to Planned Parenthood and other groups that provide contraception and they'd advocate for sex education in schools. If they cared about babies' welfare they'd insist in free daycare, a minimum wage a single woman could live on comfortably, and plentiful social services.
No, their goal is to maintain or increase the number of babies available for adoption. They want more girls and women who are unable to care for a baby to get pregnant. Once abortion is entirely illegal and social services have been slashed to zero, the adoption mill will once again be flooded by the products of enforced pregnancy.
They want to bring back the "Baby Farm" era, which resulted in tremendous profit for adoption agencies.
No, their goal is to maintain or increase the number of babies available for adoption. They want more girls and women who are unable to care for a baby to get pregnant. Once abortion is entirely illegal and social services have been slashed to zero, the adoption mill will once again be flooded by the products of enforced pregnancy.
They want to bring back the "Baby Farm" era, which resulted in tremendous profit for adoption agencies.
12
See, I thought it was something completely different.
The conservative view of sexual morality is that women should have sex only with their husband. And above all, she should not enjoy sex for the pleasure of it, only enjoy that she is submitting to her husband's will and might have a baby as a result. In the more extreme versions of this, her husband will be chosen more by her father than by herself, reminiscent of the Good Old Days of the Old Testament.
That means the attacks on abortion, contraception, and sex education are primarily about punishing women for having sex outside of the approved situation described above. They want the message to girls and women to be: "Wait until marriage, or your life will be ruined." (And for those in this mindset, being raped is the woman's fault, so that does not absolve her from punishment.)
The conservative view of sexual morality is that women should have sex only with their husband. And above all, she should not enjoy sex for the pleasure of it, only enjoy that she is submitting to her husband's will and might have a baby as a result. In the more extreme versions of this, her husband will be chosen more by her father than by herself, reminiscent of the Good Old Days of the Old Testament.
That means the attacks on abortion, contraception, and sex education are primarily about punishing women for having sex outside of the approved situation described above. They want the message to girls and women to be: "Wait until marriage, or your life will be ruined." (And for those in this mindset, being raped is the woman's fault, so that does not absolve her from punishment.)
2
Stovepiping lives.
The process of having your answer first and lining up "facts" to support it has given us ten years of war in the Iraq and now threatens women's healthcare. If you hate abortions, double Planned Parenthood's funding, teach legitimate sex education in the schools, empower women's success. They are, after all, half of our population.
Barefoot and pregnant is not only unfair to women, it is bad public policy.
The process of having your answer first and lining up "facts" to support it has given us ten years of war in the Iraq and now threatens women's healthcare. If you hate abortions, double Planned Parenthood's funding, teach legitimate sex education in the schools, empower women's success. They are, after all, half of our population.
Barefoot and pregnant is not only unfair to women, it is bad public policy.
452
But it's got nothing to do with preventing abortions. It's about preventing women from choosing their own path in life and controlling their own destinies. Comprehensive sex education and unfettered access to birth control runs counter to the goal, which is most assuredly not about empowering women's success.
Please stop believing what they tell you.
Please stop believing what they tell you.
3
It seems strange for a newspaper, any newspaper, to be denouncing the findings of a third-party undercover investigation before the findings of that investigation are known.
Apparently there are quite a few videos yet to be released. The second video was released in its three-hour entirety, nullifying the charge of selective editing, and the comments from the Planned Parenthood official are clearly disturbing and deserving of further investigation. Circling the wagons to protect Planned Parenthood at this stage might be a bit pre-mature. A suggestion? Let the politicians follow-up on the work of Center for Medical Progress as it is clear the NYT has little interest in doing so. If, as you confidently state, there is nothing there then Planned Parenthood has nothing to worry about. If the videos show Planned Parenthood officials engaged in unethical and/or illegal behavior, punishment is certainly appropriate, no?
Apparently there are quite a few videos yet to be released. The second video was released in its three-hour entirety, nullifying the charge of selective editing, and the comments from the Planned Parenthood official are clearly disturbing and deserving of further investigation. Circling the wagons to protect Planned Parenthood at this stage might be a bit pre-mature. A suggestion? Let the politicians follow-up on the work of Center for Medical Progress as it is clear the NYT has little interest in doing so. If, as you confidently state, there is nothing there then Planned Parenthood has nothing to worry about. If the videos show Planned Parenthood officials engaged in unethical and/or illegal behavior, punishment is certainly appropriate, no?
28
Bull. You conveniently ignore the facts presented.That the antiabortion group fabricated a company in an effort to deceive Planned Parenthood. That the group broke the law by offering to purchase fetal material - rejected by PP. That the group's first release demonstrated their complete disdain of any ethics by releasing a doctored video purporting to represent something that does not exist.
No politician has any legitimate business politicizing this manufactured crisis by calling for "investigations." If there were any real indication of criminal activity the anti-abortion group would turn their "evidence" over to the proper prosecutorial authorities. But they won't do that, because they have nothing legitimate. And the pols that pander and grandstand on their lies are just as disgusting as these perps.
No politician has any legitimate business politicizing this manufactured crisis by calling for "investigations." If there were any real indication of criminal activity the anti-abortion group would turn their "evidence" over to the proper prosecutorial authorities. But they won't do that, because they have nothing legitimate. And the pols that pander and grandstand on their lies are just as disgusting as these perps.
41
At least some of the findings of the investigation are known. CMP released a video, which turned out to be misleadingly edited to imply that PP was selling fetal tissues. Should we just let that one pass until such time as CMP deigns to release the rest of their video footage? How long do you suggest?
17
Censure of illegal or inappropriate behavior would be warranted, but the more extreme impulse is to defund Planned Parenthood and that would be catastrophic for the millions of women that depend on PP for basic healthcare. Many women do not have a primary care provider, but use their gynecologist in that role. If you take away the low cost care that PP offers, many women will be left with no viable options, most likely leading to increased unwanted pregnancies from decreased access to contraception, increased STDS, as well as fewer women being screened for gynecological and breast cancers. You don't have to agree with abortion to support the overall mission of Planned Parenthood.
Unfortunately, the Center for Medical Progress started with the obvious intent to deceive and as such, the results of its efforts are suspect.
Unfortunately, the Center for Medical Progress started with the obvious intent to deceive and as such, the results of its efforts are suspect.
333
Evidently "thou shalt not lie" has been superceded by "the ends justify the means."
Proposal for 11th commandment - priests in particular note - "thou shalt not be a hypocrite."
Proposal for 11th commandment - priests in particular note - "thou shalt not be a hypocrite."
31
It took you long enough New York Times. Meanwhile the anti-choice movement and their allies have been filling the opinion pages including the Washington Post with one hysterical piece after another attacking PP and its work. If we care about women's reproductive healthcare, we need to respond more quickly and forcefully instead of letting anti-choice voices dominate the debate right out the gate. Of course the be fair, they obviously had months to coordinate.
99
The Orwellian name, Center for Medical Progress, gives one shudders. A more apt name for this sham charity would be Center for Medical Regress.
61
Orwellian?
"products of conception" "terminating a pregnancy" "Pro-Choice"
Who's Orwellian!?
"products of conception" "terminating a pregnancy" "Pro-Choice"
Who's Orwellian!?
4
@Mike
I think perhaps you might want to look up Orwellian. You don't seem to have a good grasp of the meaning as it is absolutely fitting here and not even remotely applicable to the phrases you presented.
I think perhaps you might want to look up Orwellian. You don't seem to have a good grasp of the meaning as it is absolutely fitting here and not even remotely applicable to the phrases you presented.
2
How many adopted children do the founders of Center for Medical Progress have? How much do they donate to lab based medical research to prevent disease, birth defects, vaccines, etc. Nada. If you are a non profit make them justify their fund collection or they are a scam and force them to return the funds to contributors. Not much given the damage they do but something. Shameful. I hope criminal.
39
The non-profit rules need a re-do. Nothing could be more political than gathering information meant to fuel campaigns against the written laws of the land. How can they possibly justify being called non-profit, with the likely tax exemption status that goes with it. Makes my blood boil.
2
"Lawmakers responding by promoting their own anti-choice agenda are rewarding deception and putting women’s health and their constitutionally protected rights at risk."
It's worse: "lawmakers" become propagandists, and should be removed from power because they violate their oaths of office.
It's worse: "lawmakers" become propagandists, and should be removed from power because they violate their oaths of office.
45
Such moral indignation from the Times! What Planned Parenthood is doing may or may not be illegal but it is certainly morally repugnant. Yet, the Times hides behind the fig leaf that it is (in its view) illegal).
33
Remember =, this is the same Editorial Board which endorsed Andrew Cuomo for Governor in the last election. It has not credibility at all.
2
If you don't like abortions, don't have one.
1
Abortion politics is nothing more than a crass attempt to get carte blanche to legislate any kind of religious conceit into law. What a stupid country gives these people any slack at all.
49
David Daleiden is the Edward Snowden of the antiabortion movement. The predictable howling and cries of foul from Planned Parenthood are just a coverup for the embarrassment and shame of literally being caught "red-handed" at a foul and fulsome deed.
22
And this makes Daleiden some kind of Snowdenesque non-hero? Give me a break.
This video is easily debunked. A few seconds in we see -- in --large type the video was shot a year ago (50 weeks). If everything is as horrific as they claim then the pro-life group intentionally covered up multiple federal crimes, every day for a year. And because the "harvesting" is claimed to increase abortions, how many babies could have been saved since last July?
A dialog on partial birth abortions has "[pariial birth]" added in bracker tothe doctor's words, ad we clearly hear that she never said it. But a "scare" insert follows, describing partial birth abortions.
The overall video looks more like an attempt to generate hysteria, which it has. And we'll be seeing them up to the Presidential elections. Oh, goody, my brain needs washing. But who doesn't already know this will likely be the dirtiest Presidential election ever, by both sides. It's already begun.
A dialog on partial birth abortions has "[pariial birth]" added in bracker tothe doctor's words, ad we clearly hear that she never said it. But a "scare" insert follows, describing partial birth abortions.
The overall video looks more like an attempt to generate hysteria, which it has. And we'll be seeing them up to the Presidential elections. Oh, goody, my brain needs washing. But who doesn't already know this will likely be the dirtiest Presidential election ever, by both sides. It's already begun.
29
And the war on women and the poor continues.
240
The beatings will continue till morality improves.
Nonsense. If someone chooses to have an abortion that's fine with me -- it's their business -- but I shouldn't be forced to pay for it.
I'm not at "war" with anyone. Indeed, women, and the "poor", who want to take money from me without my consent are more war-like, no?
I'm not at "war" with anyone. Indeed, women, and the "poor", who want to take money from me without my consent are more war-like, no?
1
"Biomax offered a Planned Parenthood affiliate $1,600 for a fetal liver and thymus, presumably to trap the affiliate in the act of accepting a high payment for fetal tissue. "
Offering money to someone to induce them to commit a crime is a crime itself, isn't it? If I offered money to an undercover cop posing as a hitman because I wanted him to knock off my business partner, I'd be arrested and prosecuted. Shouldn't these people be charged with at least attempted conspiracy to break federal law?
Offering money to someone to induce them to commit a crime is a crime itself, isn't it? If I offered money to an undercover cop posing as a hitman because I wanted him to knock off my business partner, I'd be arrested and prosecuted. Shouldn't these people be charged with at least attempted conspiracy to break federal law?
705
There will be no end to the illegal underhanded attempts those opposed to a woman's right to abortion as well as birth control, and preventative gynecological services will go. This new episode should unite women across this country to vote out of office any and all who continue this war on women.
The IRS needs to investigate and bring charges against so called charity. Arrest and prosecute those who created these videos. We need to expose these religious fan statics for who they really are.
The IRS needs to investigate and bring charges against so called charity. Arrest and prosecute those who created these videos. We need to expose these religious fan statics for who they really are.
79
I'm quite happy for women to have a "right" to abortion. But I'm not sure why the general tax-paying public should pay for it.
BTW, it has nothing to do with religion; I agree that people should be able to choose whether or not they want to have a child as a matter of personal freedom.
But I don't this I (or anyone else) should bear the cost of that choice: you want it, you pay for it.
BTW, it has nothing to do with religion; I agree that people should be able to choose whether or not they want to have a child as a matter of personal freedom.
But I don't this I (or anyone else) should bear the cost of that choice: you want it, you pay for it.
1
There are at least a couple problems with asking for an IRS investigation. One, they have been underfunded by Republicans for the last several years. Why Republicans would underfund an agency devoted to collecting taxes is just another way to allow their wealthy benefactors to avoid taxes. The second problem is the overreaction to IRS efforts to strip tax exemption from other unworthy groups, both left and right.
Where are your facts? You allege the videos are false and misleading but provide nothing in support. Anyone watching the videos can conclude nothing but a practice of revulsion and disregard of life. Even your animal rights activists would never allow this to occur, criminal act or otherwise.
26
If they were doing this exact same thing to kitten or puppies, people would be screaming and marching in the street -- oddly enough, the SAME PEOPLE who here are defending Planned Parenthood.
I'm sorry, but their actions were callous and despicable, if not illegal. And I do not think the public had the slightest idea they were selling late-term aborted fetuses for their body parts. I personally had no idea they did this.
I'm sorry, but their actions were callous and despicable, if not illegal. And I do not think the public had the slightest idea they were selling late-term aborted fetuses for their body parts. I personally had no idea they did this.
1
These people will do absolutely anything to deny women their rights, including impeding life saving research. I was on the barricades before Roe v Wade, now it looks like I'll be there again.
42
Anyone who follows politics closely and understands the political and ideological dynamics behind what we as citizens see and hear on the news each night, can easily recognize these deceptions when they appear.
I am often outraged by the underhanded, fraudulent tactics used by Republicans in their efforts to win elections. Their "win at any cost" mentality reveals a certain ethical shallowness that, coincidentally, is often exhibited in the various types of legislation that they seek to pass e.g. cuts to Medicare, Social Security, various voter suppression efforts, etc., etc., etcetera.
The only defense against such tactics is an educated and involved electorate as we can't, unfortunately, rely on our mass media to call them out.
I am convinced that if people really understood the differences between the two principal parties and what they actually stood for, the Democrats would easily win the majority of elections. Perhaps this is why the Republicans always seem to be so eager to cut education budgets.
I am often outraged by the underhanded, fraudulent tactics used by Republicans in their efforts to win elections. Their "win at any cost" mentality reveals a certain ethical shallowness that, coincidentally, is often exhibited in the various types of legislation that they seek to pass e.g. cuts to Medicare, Social Security, various voter suppression efforts, etc., etc., etcetera.
The only defense against such tactics is an educated and involved electorate as we can't, unfortunately, rely on our mass media to call them out.
I am convinced that if people really understood the differences between the two principal parties and what they actually stood for, the Democrats would easily win the majority of elections. Perhaps this is why the Republicans always seem to be so eager to cut education budgets.
85
An anti abortionist during an interview on NPR yesterday spoke of the "passions" present on both sides of the debate. But nobody on the pro choice side has ever engaged in these types of despicable practices. And no one believing in choice has ever shot or bombed anyone. Passion does not excuse this behavior.
636
All the violence & murders have been committed by the so called right to lifers and never by pro choice advocates…..the radical right overstep their personal bounds and interfere w/ the rights of others. It's not passion, it's a clear lack of respect for our laws and the legal rights of other's.
2
Only someone with no morals considers murdering ("crushing") babies to not be just as bad as shooting or bombing.
1
Who has money to blow on setting up a fake company with the expressed purpose of making a video to embarrass or bring down a company whose philosophy or motives you don't agree with? This was a company set up for the expressed purpose of committing a fraud against Planned Parenthood. The contributors who funded this organization could and probably took a tax deduction due to its tax exempt status. This potentially defrading the government of tax money. And politicians used false information to push their agenda. I cannot think of a most horrible bunch of rancid rapscallions.
330
My daughter was without health insurance for a time. She has been diagnosed with ovarian cysts that are considered pre-cancerous. Her doctor prescribed birth control and, without Planned Parenthood, she would not have had access to this medically necessary therapy that has probably saved her life.
Isn't it the right wing that always decries "gotcha politics?" Shameful.
Isn't it the right wing that always decries "gotcha politics?" Shameful.
788
Unfortunately, the "pro-life" right wing couldn't care less about your daughter's life. They are determined to make healthcare affordable only to the rich, to strip women of even the choice of what care to have, and to kick us back into the dark ages. Your daughter and mine are collateral damage.
This is the agenda of the "pro-life," "pro-family" right wing: death by execution, death by lack of healthcare, death by poverty, death by war. Do they not see the irony?
This is the agenda of the "pro-life," "pro-family" right wing: death by execution, death by lack of healthcare, death by poverty, death by war. Do they not see the irony?
11
The reason why the conservative/republicans do is that A) they feel they can control everybody b) they manipulate religious believe c) they do not care about people, even less if you have difficult economical, social or health reasons. D) the most important when it is convenient they bring the freedom of expression is it not this the case of freedom of expression equivalentet
2
Your daughter isn't very resourceful if she cannot obtain The Pill without the help of Planned Parenthood.
3
Another name for pro-choice is, obviously, pro-death. In other editorials and wire stories, Planned Parenthood is referred to as the abortion giant, the largest single provider of end-of-life service in the country. Euphemisms are nice to spice up a story but let's understand what this entity is. It collects Federal tax money and supplies abortions. They are abortionists. Always a bad business, especially if it is your street they are operating on, whether you are liberal or conservative.
The videos are not really intended to show felonies in commission. They describe in florid detail the mindset of an abortion operation devoid of a greater sense of humanity, much like shoveling corpses into slit trenches after a calamity. If you are content to live in a society that does not elevate the creation of life above feedlot status, you will see nothing wrong with Planned Parenthood's mission, and see the videos as nothing more than lunch with salad.
But for the rest, this is an indictment of epic proportions.
The videos are not really intended to show felonies in commission. They describe in florid detail the mindset of an abortion operation devoid of a greater sense of humanity, much like shoveling corpses into slit trenches after a calamity. If you are content to live in a society that does not elevate the creation of life above feedlot status, you will see nothing wrong with Planned Parenthood's mission, and see the videos as nothing more than lunch with salad.
But for the rest, this is an indictment of epic proportions.
22
This is the most internally illogical, judgmental piece I've read in a very long time. God save us all from little green god-wannabes.
19
No, it is "pro-life" that is "pro-death". Study after study show that laws restricting choice do not reduced the frequency of abortions. The countries and states with lowest abortion rate have abort easily available. What anti-choice laws do to is to force poor women to back alley abortionists where they frequently die.
44
PP does indeed collects Federal tax money but it is NOT used for abortions. PP also provides mammograms, pap smears and other reproductive health services. As well, there are other entities that collect fetal tissue for research; curious that this "group" concentrates solely on Planned Parenthood.
Don't want to have an abortion? Great! But leave the rest of us alone.
Don't want to have an abortion? Great! But leave the rest of us alone.
29
10 years ago I "donated" my eggs for thousands of dollars in cash. Selling sperm and egs is illegal, but donating them for money is not. It's a fine line. The truth is I did it for the money. Close to the extraction I got nervous about the procedure and wanted to back out, but I had signed contracts that would hold me financially liable for all the medical expenses up to that point if I quit, so I went through with it against my will because I neeeded the money. In the end I felt exploited for my poverty. Women who "donate" their aborted fetuses may be under emotional duress and economic hardship, which is why women typically go to Planned Parenthood instead of a regular OBGYN. There is a good chance they are unknowingly signing consent forms because they need the abortion and just sign a lot of paperwork in the office without reading the fine print. The fees PP collects from the "donation" may certainly be arbitrary, and exceed the actual cost of shipping and handling. Just as I profited from my legal egg donation because of the generous compensation, PP may be profiting from the "donation" of fetal parts. When does donation become sale? It's a fine line.
18
This comment is full of speculation based on nothing but the commenter's clear animus against Planned Parenthood. Sorry, J.Davies. No sale.
30
This editorial assumes the truth of every statement made by Planned Parenthood without any requirement for evidence or documentation. Indeed it demands that no evidence should be required.
Aborted fetuses are a waste stream for PP. Waste streams are a cost. Every business in the world attempts to turn costly waste streams into inputs for other businesses which can generate income. In other words, there is an incentive for PP to push the limits of the law and both videos clearly show PP doing that -- altering abortion procedures to maximize the most desired recoverable tissue -- liver, heart, lungs. The videos clearly show haggling -- if it were just reimbursement no haggling would be necessary there would be documented costs. And if the tissue purchaser is providing the transportation, how can PP recover a cost it never incurred?
What other organization in American life would be spared a Times investigation under similar circumstances? Where are the consent forms? What are the consent procedures? Where is the forensic accounting of costs? Where are the reporters calling Stem Express and other purchasers of these human organs to investigate their business model and the bidding up of prices for these human organs?
The Times editorial notes that Federal tax dollars are being used to pay for this human tissue for research. But, somehow, this is the one area of Federal expenditure which should be off limits for oversight, journalistic or Congressional?
Aborted fetuses are a waste stream for PP. Waste streams are a cost. Every business in the world attempts to turn costly waste streams into inputs for other businesses which can generate income. In other words, there is an incentive for PP to push the limits of the law and both videos clearly show PP doing that -- altering abortion procedures to maximize the most desired recoverable tissue -- liver, heart, lungs. The videos clearly show haggling -- if it were just reimbursement no haggling would be necessary there would be documented costs. And if the tissue purchaser is providing the transportation, how can PP recover a cost it never incurred?
What other organization in American life would be spared a Times investigation under similar circumstances? Where are the consent forms? What are the consent procedures? Where is the forensic accounting of costs? Where are the reporters calling Stem Express and other purchasers of these human organs to investigate their business model and the bidding up of prices for these human organs?
The Times editorial notes that Federal tax dollars are being used to pay for this human tissue for research. But, somehow, this is the one area of Federal expenditure which should be off limits for oversight, journalistic or Congressional?
18
Hogwash!
20
This editorial gives the benefit of the doubt to Planned Parenthood because the makes of the video selectively edited it to make it look like PP was making a profit off the disposal of fetal remnants.
"if it were just reimbursement no haggling would be necessary "
That is silly, disputes can easily come up over what the exact costs are that need to be reimbursed.
"altering abortion procedures to maximize the most desired recoverable tissue "
And which law would that violate, exactly?
"What other organization in American life would be spared a Times investigation under similar circumstances?"
Given the same lack of proof that you've provided regarding PP, every organization.
"if it were just reimbursement no haggling would be necessary "
That is silly, disputes can easily come up over what the exact costs are that need to be reimbursed.
"altering abortion procedures to maximize the most desired recoverable tissue "
And which law would that violate, exactly?
"What other organization in American life would be spared a Times investigation under similar circumstances?"
Given the same lack of proof that you've provided regarding PP, every organization.
9
One thing should be manifestly clear by now: The Right sees no problem whatsoever in lying* to advance their causes. This alone should disqualify them from any further participation in our governance yet many people support these liars. Strangely enough, most of these people come from a religious tradition that has, as one of its main commandments, an injunction against lying.
* And yes, deliberately leaving an incorrect impression is a lie too.
* And yes, deliberately leaving an incorrect impression is a lie too.
268
The oaths of people who cannot comply with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" are no more valuable than toxic waste.
4
The lie is deliberately is using red-herring complaints about journalism techniques (all valid when done by liberals of course) to draw attention away from these human parts/murder factories.
4
As I have long supported the objectives of Planned Parenthood, what I found particularly ill-considered on the part of Dr Nucatola was the setting. Having an exchange of the disposition of fetal tissue while your gobbling food and coiffing wine in a restaurant presents an unsettling juxtaposition and is just plain bad optics. Neither government employees or NGOs, frankly, should be taking posh lunches with commercial interests with the conflict of interest that accepting favors conveys. Furthermore, Planned Parenthood is well aware that it is in the cross-hairs and should be vigorously vetting interactions of this variety lest they fall pray to the very consequences we see here.
25
Knowing the opposition is out there, I am surprised PP would do anything this lame. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last time.
I really wonder why they are BARGAIN over such things anyways -- why not set clear prices with very clear explanations of the costs (which we are told are minimal and only to cover their collection costs)?
I also wonder about people -- any people, pro or con -- discussing anything this revolting (crushing human fetuses to extract their valuable liver?) over a dinner with expensive food and wine. Ew.
I really wonder why they are BARGAIN over such things anyways -- why not set clear prices with very clear explanations of the costs (which we are told are minimal and only to cover their collection costs)?
I also wonder about people -- any people, pro or con -- discussing anything this revolting (crushing human fetuses to extract their valuable liver?) over a dinner with expensive food and wine. Ew.
5
An explanation, I think , lies in the polarization of the right left.
The doctor has probably never seriously talked to anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support Planned Parenthood, and wouldn't strenuously defend everything connected with Planned Parenthood, witness the comments here.
She couldn't conceive of any reason to have her guard up. She doesn't imagine anyone who doesn't think exactly like she does.
The doctor has probably never seriously talked to anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support Planned Parenthood, and wouldn't strenuously defend everything connected with Planned Parenthood, witness the comments here.
She couldn't conceive of any reason to have her guard up. She doesn't imagine anyone who doesn't think exactly like she does.
4
The video betrayed callous disregard for human life... you didn't even try to deny it. The money is not the point.
19
According to whom? Your elected governor?
3
@btb: According to the creeps who released the deceptively edited videos, the money is exactly the point. The stated purpose of the whole enterprise was to "prove" that Planned Parenthood illegally sells fetal tissue.
It must have been distressing to them to make all these elaborate, expensive arrangements to set up phony organizations only to have Planned Parenthood executives repeatedly make statements that prove the opposite.
It must have been distressing to them to make all these elaborate, expensive arrangements to set up phony organizations only to have Planned Parenthood executives repeatedly make statements that prove the opposite.
36
Who doesn't want a Lamborgini, nyuck nyuck. Don't want to lowball! The tone of this editorial is utter fear. Good.
15
The Center for Medical Progress's tax-exempt status should be reviewed and its principals prosecuted for all misrepresentations committed in its accession and/or retention.
66
I remember the bogus video of ACRON by O'Keefe and Breitbart. Every court it was taken to refused to indict or convict ACORN, but the right wingers and the media brought it down. O'Keefe did the same thing this group has done, they spliced and pasted conversations out of order, in fact the CA Attorney General said that was the worse case of tampering he had ever seen before he threw out the case.
It is also unfortunate that this doctor has received death threats, another 'achievement" of this unscrupulous Republican group. These anti choice zealots are noted for taking revenge on doctors that refuse to do their bidding.
It is also unfortunate that this doctor has received death threats, another 'achievement" of this unscrupulous Republican group. These anti choice zealots are noted for taking revenge on doctors that refuse to do their bidding.
107
Yep, the Republican Party keeps some of the most psychotic juvenile delinquents in history rolling in money.
20
Planned Parenthood is a joke, and should be defended immediately.
2
Wow! A great and resigned argument from the right! Bravo!
18
I would prefer to defund them.
1
@hawk: Planned Parenthood isn't a joke to the millions of Americans who rely on it for vital, even life-saving, health services such as prenatal care and cancer screenings. But I agree that it should be defended immediately. And continually.
40
This entire debacle is a joke. First of all, groups such as this one should NOT be given tax exempt status under any circumstance. They are all political organizations, including ones that serve the left leaning. They all should striped of tax exemption.
Second, I agree with Mark...sue them often and with vigor. Planned Parenthood has established itself as a excellent public service group and the relentless harassment is unconcienable! I really don't know how Cecile Richards keeps her leveled responses. All this does is again, "stir up the crazies", those right wing religious zealots that will do anything to prevent women their right to choose, which is protected by law. But that doesn't really matter to these despicable human beings. All they care about is their agenda and nothing will stop them. So, sue them, embarrass them, make them pay. And...send donations to Planned Parenthood, the only adults in the room!
Second, I agree with Mark...sue them often and with vigor. Planned Parenthood has established itself as a excellent public service group and the relentless harassment is unconcienable! I really don't know how Cecile Richards keeps her leveled responses. All this does is again, "stir up the crazies", those right wing religious zealots that will do anything to prevent women their right to choose, which is protected by law. But that doesn't really matter to these despicable human beings. All they care about is their agenda and nothing will stop them. So, sue them, embarrass them, make them pay. And...send donations to Planned Parenthood, the only adults in the room!
191
My parents were admirable Christians. Never would they stoop as low as some "Christians" are prepared to go to further their notion of Christianity. I've long described some tactics of the anti-choice people as "lying for Jesus." Ah well, it's election season. I wonder if they can spell "backfire."
42
I am astounded by these jerks who claim a need to ask for God's forgiveness every day. Every one of them hasn't got a whit of integrity to respect.
7
It sounds as if the misnamed Center for Medical Progress should be the organization that is defunded by losing their tax-exempt status. I've seen the video and it's a total and complete scam. It is Planned Parenthood that is supporting "medical progress" by donating, with the permission of the donor, fetal tissue for invaluable research on diseases like Alzheimer's. The unrelenting attacks against women's reproductive freedom by religious zealots and their Republican enablers who want to impose their own version of Sharia law is a national disgrace. I hope there will be some strong push back by Democrats like Hillary Clinton and others.
119
Too bad the Supreme Court has been packed with stooges to be blind to the plain meaning of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". We are being cheated of our most explicit and directly written constitutional rights by these grasping religious creeps.
24
Hillary is in bed with corporate donors who also donate to Republican candidates, it is a losing battle.
3
Steve, you do not need to belong to any religion at all to feel a sense of horror when fully formed fetuses are torn apart to provide hearts, lungs and livers for scientific experimentation.
I seriously DOUBT that the young women signing away "right to harvest tissue" are thinking of that -- they are probably think of some blood or skins samples. Not their baby's heart, lung and liver.
Also: abortion advocates constantly tell the public that abortions are done on "tiny clusters of cells" that do not remotely resemble a human child, ergo it is OK. But such donations could not come from "tiny clusters of cells" -- they require a mostly formed, developed late term fetus who has a distinct heart, lung and liver.
If this is fine -- if this is a good idea -- then you have nothing to fear. If it is a legal transaction, you have nothing to fear. If it is a wholesome activity, then Planned Parenthood and abortion advocates should point to it proudly -- in the name of science and research. Please do so.
I seriously DOUBT that the young women signing away "right to harvest tissue" are thinking of that -- they are probably think of some blood or skins samples. Not their baby's heart, lung and liver.
Also: abortion advocates constantly tell the public that abortions are done on "tiny clusters of cells" that do not remotely resemble a human child, ergo it is OK. But such donations could not come from "tiny clusters of cells" -- they require a mostly formed, developed late term fetus who has a distinct heart, lung and liver.
If this is fine -- if this is a good idea -- then you have nothing to fear. If it is a legal transaction, you have nothing to fear. If it is a wholesome activity, then Planned Parenthood and abortion advocates should point to it proudly -- in the name of science and research. Please do so.
6
Funny about the attacks on Planned Parenthood. My wife and I were graduate students in 1974 and availed ourselves of PP for birth control and OB/Gyn care, were were poor (as students are) and far from home. 3 years later when we found out my wife was pregnant, we learned via care from another Planned Parenthood Center in another state (I was a new adjunct instructor). By the way, there was no abortion - and our son is now 36. Planned Parenthood provides a valuable service and since a "brand name" it is easy to find for those new in town. The poor are often transients as they build careers of sorts. Sad that Planned Parenthood's value is completely misunderstood.
506
"Sad that Planned Parenthood's value is completely misunderstood."
It's not misunderstood. It's purposely misrepresented in a vicious smear campaign.
It's not misunderstood. It's purposely misrepresented in a vicious smear campaign.
54
It is great to hear this story, as a an antidote to the crazed imaginings of anti-abortion fanatics. Whatever they think is going on at Planned Parenthood, it surely does not match the important help you got there when you needed.
11
The nearly three-hour unedited video, which is a nauseating journey through the inner workings of the abortion industry, was posted at the same time as the edited video. Editing has nothing to do with the overall tone or message.
It's a hidden camera video - so what? When Mitt Romney was caught by “secret video” making his 47% remarks, the means of attaining the information was not the focus of the story.
It's a hidden camera video - so what? When Mitt Romney was caught by “secret video” making his 47% remarks, the means of attaining the information was not the focus of the story.
25
Why any women would vote Republican is beyond me.
It remains the domain of the "Barefoot or Pregnant" crowd.
The utter lack of respect for women is astounding, yet women still support them.
I don't get it.
It remains the domain of the "Barefoot or Pregnant" crowd.
The utter lack of respect for women is astounding, yet women still support them.
I don't get it.
258
Republican abuse of females begins at birth.
17
They vote Republican because they fear the world and don't think they can survive without depending on men to rule their lives.
4
If the anti-abortion folks have to resort to lies and deception to get what they want, it stands to reason that what they want cannot be justified in any truthful fashion. What does that tell you about their goals?
Planned Parenthood plays a vital part in the US healthcare system and should continue to be fully supported.
The sleazy politicians that jump on such obviously deceptive videos for their own political purposes should be kept out of US government!!! Once again I am embarrassed to have Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott representing the state of Texas.
Planned Parenthood plays a vital part in the US healthcare system and should continue to be fully supported.
The sleazy politicians that jump on such obviously deceptive videos for their own political purposes should be kept out of US government!!! Once again I am embarrassed to have Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott representing the state of Texas.
104
The Constitution explicitly denies these creeps the power to enact their garbage legislation when they are elected.
3
Governor Pence of Indiana also jumped on the these videos and called for investigation. This is the same guy who caused this state a lot of lost business and respect due to his RAFRA law.
16
For the party that claims to want to get the government off our backs the republican's certainly spend an inordinate amount of time trying insert government into women's bodies.
If you are anti abortion, don't have an abortion.
Otherwise, mind your OWN business.
If you are anti abortion, don't have an abortion.
Otherwise, mind your OWN business.
1170
Totally agree. The same people who go ballistic if anyone tells them how to live, has no problem telling others how to live. The hypocrisy is astounding. This is why I believe in God but not religion.
24
We see it when cops beat minorities and the mentally ill; we see it when the homeless are ignored; we see it in so many different ways but at its core it is always the same. Those without power, those without a voice - literally in the case of abortion - are given no rights, but are beaten and murdered for the convenience of others. Abortion is just the most blatant and egregious example of this.
6
The paradox, irony, contradiction, and hypocrisy of right-to-lifers is lost on them. Ideologues are short of mental wiggle room and long on righteousness. While American families everywhere struggle economically to live a decent live and while our infrastructure rots on the vine and while our ecosystems rapidly decline we put this much energy, time, and money into abortion? Are we out of our collective minds?
13
The one thing more reprehensible than dishonesty is self righteous dishonesty.
134
No sin is too great not to commit in the name of God.
19
Let us all say Amen!
8
Dear Steve - your "God" does not belong in my uterus, or for that matter, in any aspect of my life. We have a mandate to separate religion from government, so you may choose to live your life with God and I may choose to live my life without. Religion, and particularly Christianity, is not a requirement for a moral life. the fact that murder has been used as a tool against opponents of Christianity for millennia only speaks to your evil.
14
"Anti-abortion groups have long pushed to defund Planned Parenthood, even though no federal money is used to provide abortions. "
This is, at best, naive and at worse dishonest. Money is fungible, and if Planned Parenthood receives ANY federal tax dollars, and if they perform ANY abortions, then indirectly federal funds are used to provide abortions, QED.
This is, at best, naive and at worse dishonest. Money is fungible, and if Planned Parenthood receives ANY federal tax dollars, and if they perform ANY abortions, then indirectly federal funds are used to provide abortions, QED.
18
By that reasoning, the woman who gets an abortion just funded my mammogram.
39
HT: Sorry, David's comment is not reasoning.
5
I've never even seen a PP do a mammogram. It's laughable that people keep saying that PP is great because of it.
The bulk of their business is abortion. Anyone with common sense knows that they use the 587 million taxpayer dollars to pay for their abortion business.
The bulk of their business is abortion. Anyone with common sense knows that they use the 587 million taxpayer dollars to pay for their abortion business.
5
I was a clinic escort back when the "Spring of Life" protest was held in Buffalo, NY. It targeted a clinic where Dr. Bart Slepian practiced.
If that name sounds familar, he was an abortion provider who was shot dead in his home several years later by a fanatical anti-choice protector..
My generous donation to Planned Parenthood went out today, in his memory.