In time, seismic events, erosion, endless freeze-thaw cycles, and once in a 100-year rains happen. Unless Tintina spends resources in perpetuity, long after the ore is gone and the profit made, their pollution mitigation designs and systems will slowly yield to these forces, degrade and ultimately fail. The heavy metals and acid-mine drainage created by exposing previously shielded rock to oxygen and water will then escape containment and flow to the Smith. This project is no different than any other Montana mine. The second law of thermodynamics wins. Always. Water flows downhill. Always. Gravity will try to pull water from this mine to the Smith without relent. Forever. Unfortunately, companies keep containment systems functional for regulatory compliance during operation, then dissolve the company and the liability after the money is made. Easier when based out of country. Montana gets the same as the Copper King William Clark gave. He shipped the profit to NY, built Manhattan’s best mansion, and left Montana with toxic messes that kill watersheds and drain tax dollars a century later. Companies do have better technologies now. But they do not make the slightest impact on the laws of thermodynamics, which dictate that unless substantial amounts of energy (money) is invested forever to maintain containment, drainage from this mine eventually escapes and finds the Smith. This is a choice between the mine or a pristine river. The mine should win in some places but not here.
I was born in Montana and have lived here most of my life, the past 27 years in White Sulphur Springs.
I'm a strong supporter of Tintina's proposed copper mine.
I'm well aware of Montana's bleak history of mining and environmental disaster.
Mining technology has greatly improved since these past mistakes were made. Regulations and
oversight affecting the mining industry are also more stringent.
Yes, a great element of trust is required to believe that Tintina will live up to their responsibilities,
and will conduct this project in the best possible manner to avoid environmental damage. For me, this trust comes a little easier after having talked with so many of the people at Tintina.
I've tried to make my opinion on this subject an informed one, and so have taken two extensive
tours of the proposed mine site, attended about ten public informational meetings given
by the company, and spoken with several dozen people connected with Tintina, including
owners, geologists, drillers, and office staff. These are quality people, very professional, with a clear goal of making environmental protection, particularly of the Smith River, a top priority.
Select an optimum project, go with a company committed to the environment,
and guide and monitor it with the regulations and oversight that we already have in place.
This is the only way that we can have both a strong economy, and still protect the Montana
that we all love.
I'm a strong supporter of Tintina's proposed copper mine.
I'm well aware of Montana's bleak history of mining and environmental disaster.
Mining technology has greatly improved since these past mistakes were made. Regulations and
oversight affecting the mining industry are also more stringent.
Yes, a great element of trust is required to believe that Tintina will live up to their responsibilities,
and will conduct this project in the best possible manner to avoid environmental damage. For me, this trust comes a little easier after having talked with so many of the people at Tintina.
I've tried to make my opinion on this subject an informed one, and so have taken two extensive
tours of the proposed mine site, attended about ten public informational meetings given
by the company, and spoken with several dozen people connected with Tintina, including
owners, geologists, drillers, and office staff. These are quality people, very professional, with a clear goal of making environmental protection, particularly of the Smith River, a top priority.
Select an optimum project, go with a company committed to the environment,
and guide and monitor it with the regulations and oversight that we already have in place.
This is the only way that we can have both a strong economy, and still protect the Montana
that we all love.
3
So... Tintina mines for 13 years and leaves. Will they be there in 20 years when the ponds leak? In 50 years? Or will the state have to cover the cost of clean-up? Tintina's bond only covers reclamation- not recovery years down the road.
I also don't believe that the state bonding levels are adequate, and I wonder if Tintina fought against Senate Bill 218 to increase bonding to 150% of current levels for mines with a risk of acid mine drainage.
You speak of Tintina as if it's a folksy little mining company run by people who love the Smith. But it will soon be controlled by the Australian firm Sandfire- what allegiance or interest do they have in the Smith long-term?
For me the short-term benefit is not worth the long term risks. The Smith is far too valuable of a resource. 13 years of employment and income is little compared to the public benefit of keeping the Smith clean and healthy for generations.
I respect your personal views, but strongly disagree.
I also don't believe that the state bonding levels are adequate, and I wonder if Tintina fought against Senate Bill 218 to increase bonding to 150% of current levels for mines with a risk of acid mine drainage.
You speak of Tintina as if it's a folksy little mining company run by people who love the Smith. But it will soon be controlled by the Australian firm Sandfire- what allegiance or interest do they have in the Smith long-term?
For me the short-term benefit is not worth the long term risks. The Smith is far too valuable of a resource. 13 years of employment and income is little compared to the public benefit of keeping the Smith clean and healthy for generations.
I respect your personal views, but strongly disagree.
5
One common thread that the vast majority of people agree upon is that the Smith River is a treasure (I’ve floated it), and should be protected.
Various industries have made great strides in the past 20 years to understand and limit environmental impacts. For example, modern mining now employs technology similar to modern waste water (sewage) facilities. These include plastic liners with leak detection systems, ongoing monitoring, and many others.
I understand the concern that the current progressive Tintina management could be replaced for whatever reason down the road. However, be aware that Montana has some of the most rigorous statutes and rules in the country. A company must demonstrate compliance with these laws, or their permit will be denied. In addition, mines are inspected routinely to assure compliance. This is irrespective of who runs the company.
This copper project is located approximately 19 river miles from the Smith River, and will generate very little water. What will be generated will be treated, if necessary. Assertions that development of this site will “destroy” or “devastate” the Smith River are not science based. I encourage anyone interested in this issue to learn the facts. By the way, Tintina welcomes visitors at the site, and will address any questions or concerns.
Various industries have made great strides in the past 20 years to understand and limit environmental impacts. For example, modern mining now employs technology similar to modern waste water (sewage) facilities. These include plastic liners with leak detection systems, ongoing monitoring, and many others.
I understand the concern that the current progressive Tintina management could be replaced for whatever reason down the road. However, be aware that Montana has some of the most rigorous statutes and rules in the country. A company must demonstrate compliance with these laws, or their permit will be denied. In addition, mines are inspected routinely to assure compliance. This is irrespective of who runs the company.
This copper project is located approximately 19 river miles from the Smith River, and will generate very little water. What will be generated will be treated, if necessary. Assertions that development of this site will “destroy” or “devastate” the Smith River are not science based. I encourage anyone interested in this issue to learn the facts. By the way, Tintina welcomes visitors at the site, and will address any questions or concerns.
1
Water will be treated? Through reverse osmosis technology? What will happen with the concentrate removed via RO technology? Who will pay for this when the mine shuts down?
Brian: Jerry Zieg tried to sell this plan to a company he worked for (for whatever reason they didn't go for it) and now he's found a taker (tintina). When confronted, he'll tell you he's a resident but he's not, his parents are and maybe he will inherit upon his mother's death but he is a permanent resident of Washington. He stands to make millions and in the meantime, his ego is being inflated b/c he's playing hometown boy returned to save his town. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. From the looks of him, he'll have a stroke or heart attack long before he sees anything else.
Went to www.saveoursmith.com to donate to this great cause - no place to donate! Sheesh. But you can sign the petition there, and get bumperstickers if you have a Montana address. Luckily you can donate via http://www.uppermissouriwaterkeeper.org/save-our-smith-no-black-butte-mine/
When you think of Montana as the Treasure State, The Smith River is in the top 3 treasures, and given the precedent for badly managed mining activity, what "treasure" lies beneath, should stay beneath.
When you think of Montana as the Treasure State, The Smith River is in the top 3 treasures, and given the precedent for badly managed mining activity, what "treasure" lies beneath, should stay beneath.
1
We can have jobs without destroying the environment if we say no to this project and ones like it. There are many jobs created by environmental stewards hip. This project will only benefit a few. The damage from the future superfund sight will eat up any government revenue generated. Plus the loss of jobs that will come when the river is destroyed for a few greedy people and people can no longer enjoy rafting down it. Hard rock mining does not even pay for itself because of the mining law of 1872 which does not even require royalties. Those coming here to work will need more services that will strain the local government. I hope they have the good sense to say no to this project.
2
What is there to say? If this project proceeds as planned, this river will soon be just another polluted stream. Jerry Zieg is either painfully naive or positioned to profit handsomely from this venture.
1
Jerry Zieg tried to sell this plan to a company he worked for (for whatever reason they didn't go for it) and now he's found a taker (tintina). When confronted, he'll tell you he's a resident but he's not, his parents are and maybe he will inherit upon his mother's death but he is a permanent resident of Washington. He stands to make millions and in the meantime, his ego is being inflated b/c he's playing hometown boy returned to save his town. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. From the looks of him, he'll have a stroke or heart attack long before he sees anything else.
With the state's established legacy of abandoned toxic mining operations, one would question why anyone would even entertain the discussion of allowing another operation that could destroy such a beautiful natural treasure.
2
Students in The University of Montana School of Journalism produced a television documentary on this same subject. It premiered in May 2015 on MontanaPBS. You can see it here: http://www.montanapbs.org/ChangingHome/
We met Mr. Zeig when he was just 16, a long-haired youth on his parents' ranch back in the late 60's, early 70's. We used to camp and fish on their land when my husband was a professor at Montana State U. They were wonderful stewards of the land--and if anyone could prevent mining damage to such a pristine and beautiful place, Jerry is the one to do it. I hope he reads the comments of folks who have serious and knowledgeable reservations about this project and the potential for problems. While he is at the company, he will make the effort to prevent catastrophe, but he should consider that if he is NOT at the company, what could happen to his one-time home.
3
No one no matter how committed no one can prevent mine damage. Mining is one of the most damaging activities one can do. This area should be preserved without a mine. If Mr. Zieg cares about the future of this area he will find something else to do with his time.
1
At least the proposed mining activity in the area is not for coal. Noted in the article that Alaska wants to strip mine coal. With the carbon dioxide and air pollution crisis from burning coal, all our coal should be kept in the ground to protect the future of the planet for all humans!
4
Those mine owners never underestimate the destruction that they will cause, they know just how much destruction that they are going to visit upon the land...they just don't care because they never intend to clean an of it up, they will leave it for the taxpayer to pay for in the form of Superfund sites.
They know that they have to buy a few shady politicians (Almost always republicans because they are the pollution party) and the bribes are just the cost of business.
The article say that there will be 200 jobs to get $2 billion dollars worth of copper. All 200 of those jobs will be low wage, no benefits, extremely dangerous, no worker protections jobs, only the owner will make a killing, everyone else will suffer, including the people who depend on that river.
They know that they have to buy a few shady politicians (Almost always republicans because they are the pollution party) and the bribes are just the cost of business.
The article say that there will be 200 jobs to get $2 billion dollars worth of copper. All 200 of those jobs will be low wage, no benefits, extremely dangerous, no worker protections jobs, only the owner will make a killing, everyone else will suffer, including the people who depend on that river.
10
You are poorly informed about the modern mineral industry that provides the metals that you and your friends use, for your car, house, smart phone, etc. Do you think that workers dig around with shovels? Jobs now associated with the development of mineral resources are high tech, with remote operation of drills, trucks, etc., and are tightly regulated. Yes, there are accidents, like in other industries (airlines, for example), but they are mitigated by modern design and regulation. The jobs are some of the highest paying, most certainly have benefits, and are no more dangerous than working in factories that build your cars (I was in a copper mine today in BC, with a student; in 2014 their 500 workers had no lost-time accidents). As for "the owner", the mining industry is one of the least profitable basic industries. Until you and your friends decrease your use of natural resources, recycle, support alternatives, etc., society will continue to need metals and thus mines.
You didn't even bother to address Candide33 concerns. The question is who will pay for the clean up of this mine after it shuts down? This mining company has already fought financial assurance regulations and western mines still operate under the auspices of the 1872 Mine Act. Again, a clean mine is an unprofitable mine in the US. They will privatize the profits and socialize the risk. It's just more of the same.
1
Do we need metals? Yes. But alternatives can be found for most metals and certainly there are many sources for copper. On the other hand if that habitat is greatly impacted which is likely given the previous mines track records you CANNOT repair it or bring it back. This stretch of water is a high quality riparian habitat. The fishery sustainably supports both sport and commercial fishing. It supports recreation. Should the toxic by-products of this mining enter the river (again highly likely based on past performance) there will be NO recovery. The risk reward factor does not justify licensing the mine. Too much risk for the majority, too little reward for a few. It simply does not make credible sense.
Make them post a bond for the most pessimistic assumption of losses and clean-up costs.
If the proposal is any good, then it actually won't cost that much - plenty of large insurers will guarantee the money if they see the risk as being low enough, so the company won't have to actually put most of the money down themselves. If the risk isn't that low, then the project shouldn't happen.
If the proposal is any good, then it actually won't cost that much - plenty of large insurers will guarantee the money if they see the risk as being low enough, so the company won't have to actually put most of the money down themselves. If the risk isn't that low, then the project shouldn't happen.
4
There is another Smith river threatened by a proposed copper mine in the Siskiyou mountains on the California Oregon border. It also threatens the Illinois and Rogue. All three are designated Wild and Scenic rivers and have some of the strongest remaining salmon runs in the US. The public comment period is ending this week so see the Kalmiopsis rivers, Klamath Siskiyou Wildland center or the Klamath Forest Alliance organization for more information.
7
Mr. Solomon,
You've apparently not been to Montana. There are plenty of pristine rivers and streams. We work hard to keep them that way. Where you get the notion that Montana has lousy rivers is baffling.
Otherwise, a great article on the pending dangers to the Smith River.
You've apparently not been to Montana. There are plenty of pristine rivers and streams. We work hard to keep them that way. Where you get the notion that Montana has lousy rivers is baffling.
Otherwise, a great article on the pending dangers to the Smith River.
The author never said MT has lousy rivers - he said MT is "lousy 'with' rivers," an expression meaning there are lots of rivers. And he's obviously been here - he wrote about the trip.
7
West Virginia is the Saudi Arabia of Coal, and the second-poorest state. Probably a coincidence, since everyone knows that mining is the short path to prosperity.
12
Paddlers must share with business. Work it out.
1
You obviously don't have a clue what you're saying. Come to Montana and see what "business" has done, once they get rich and leave, what remains is utterly, totally trashed. Then your tax dollars are used to "clean it up." Like that option? The entire world does not belong to people who want to make money off a natural resource.
25
Columbus,Ohio needs it own copper mine.Them you can enjoy the sulfuric acid fumes, poisoned water and decades of pollution.
6
The Spokane river, another treasure is so polluted by mines in Idaho, that the water cannot be safely drunk, and the fish (depending 0n type and body part) is usually limited to eating to one or two per month. Isn't it time the polluters in all industries foot the bill from the beginning to the end? Were I a Montanan, I'd insist on the most stringent measures of protection, and iron-clad requirements, if they go ahead with this development.
4
The question is why is so much environmental degradation occurring during the Obama administration? Offshore drilling in Atlantic. Drilling in Arctic. Open season on endangered wolves OKed by his Interior Dept. Mines. DINO? Yep.
1
No watershed has ever survived hard-rock metal mining. Ever. Go look at Greece around the silver mines of Laurium, mined in the fourth and third centuryies BCE, and Spain around the gold mines that were among the prizes contested in the Punic Wars. Some things in Nature are sacred. Private profit is profane, and often toxic to civilization.
17
I would also add that no place on earth where Canadians mine tend to survive devastation. Witness the gold and silver mines in Peru, Mexico and in Africa in once pristine areas. Total disregard for preserving the environment.
2
Please, mining in the 3rd C BC? If you have not noticed, modern mines produce the metals that everyone uses, for your cars, houses, smart phones, etc.; as the saying goes "if you cannot grow it you have to mine it". Perhaps you simply prefer that the mines that are the sources of your modern way of life are in someone else's country.
As for Norma, have you been to Peru and Mexico? I have and these mines, despite issues remaining with communities, have beem instrumental to lift the standard of living - city and country - of both countries, and faster than non-mining countries of the region.
As for Norma, have you been to Peru and Mexico? I have and these mines, despite issues remaining with communities, have beem instrumental to lift the standard of living - city and country - of both countries, and faster than non-mining countries of the region.
Oh, Jeffrey. The same tired "give up your devices" argument. A classic straw man. Why not show that this mine will be foolproof? Why doesn't the mining company take it's technologies to another mine and show what it can do?
regarding the disscussion here in the comments on the mining act of 1872. I recommend all of the commentors to read Pulitzer Prize-Winning author , a the friend of Presidents and Supreme Court justices, Wallace Stegner in his Essay "Now if I ruled the World.... I will decalre the ...Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, under the Antiquities Act a National Monument....so that our remaining wildlife wilderness will not be destroyed for a week or two of oil. I will lean on Congress to repeal the outdated 1872 Mining Law." The same applies here, why destroy one of the last free flowing pristine Rivers on Earth for a few days supply of Copper. In the United States one years economic value of outdoor recreation, in 2014 , was valued at $657 Billion Dollars, surely the ongoing value of recreation on the Smith River is more important to Montana, and future generations, than a short term investment in a perpetualy polluting Copper Mine.
13
"Nothing must happen to this place."
Stasis never happens anywhere or anytime. Things evolve. The question is how does it come about: orderly or chaotically?
Your personal perspective permeates this peace, there is no "journalistic" approach here. How about a map of the mine area, where are the tails going? How will they be isolated from the river? You say a mile away, but rivers and creeks don't move in straight lines. A mile can become 10 if the tails are placed in a certain place rather than another. Secondary impoundments can be built to catch accidental spills.
Yes, there are environmental concerns, emotional attachments to deal with, but other activities have degraded this river long before you or anyone in your piece put eyes on it. Logging, farming, roads, etc. may not make acid, but they do kill fish just as certainly as other activities--just look at some other formerly prolific rivers in the American West that have no mining. The Truckee once roared with trout, and now hardly a fin flaps.
Mining is not the boogie man: people, all of us, are. Proper management is what we should strive for.
Stasis never happens anywhere or anytime. Things evolve. The question is how does it come about: orderly or chaotically?
Your personal perspective permeates this peace, there is no "journalistic" approach here. How about a map of the mine area, where are the tails going? How will they be isolated from the river? You say a mile away, but rivers and creeks don't move in straight lines. A mile can become 10 if the tails are placed in a certain place rather than another. Secondary impoundments can be built to catch accidental spills.
Yes, there are environmental concerns, emotional attachments to deal with, but other activities have degraded this river long before you or anyone in your piece put eyes on it. Logging, farming, roads, etc. may not make acid, but they do kill fish just as certainly as other activities--just look at some other formerly prolific rivers in the American West that have no mining. The Truckee once roared with trout, and now hardly a fin flaps.
Mining is not the boogie man: people, all of us, are. Proper management is what we should strive for.
3
Yes, Truckee was compromised to make room for the same kinds of people who write in to lament development of any kind anywhere.
Lots of hypocrisy all around, and fewer and fewer 'real' jobs.
Lots of hypocrisy all around, and fewer and fewer 'real' jobs.
3
The wild will not be managed. Once you do, it is no longer wild. And all of us need The Wild. Natural environments are never "in stasis" and human interference does not translate into "evolving," but rather into destruction.
15
In 2005 the Republicans proposed mortgaging ANWR oil to extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich. A few years ago David Frum, a speechwriter for G. W. Bush, suggested that our public lands be sold to pay down the national debt. Which party runs Montana?
We need to make sure that the same political ethics are not involved here.
We need to make sure that the same political ethics are not involved here.
11
We must always remember that our public lands belong to the public, and attempting to privatize them is an act of treason that should be punished severely.
9
The U.S. was founded as a nation that took public domain and made it private in order to settle it. San Francisco would not be the city it is if gold hadn't been found at Sutter's Mill.
Most of the ski resorts and the vast majority of private developments surrounding them are developed on old mining claims. The residents of Aspen don't seem to have much issue over their private holdings based on past mining.
Teddy Roosevelt didn't create all of the public reserves to forever conserve all of them, but rather to show a balance between conservation and development.
So, your comment has no historical basis.
Most of the ski resorts and the vast majority of private developments surrounding them are developed on old mining claims. The residents of Aspen don't seem to have much issue over their private holdings based on past mining.
Teddy Roosevelt didn't create all of the public reserves to forever conserve all of them, but rather to show a balance between conservation and development.
So, your comment has no historical basis.
2
My nieghbour drew a May 15th permit for the Smith this year. Him, his brother, his son and three of his friends and myself made the trip. The boys are all college students and the rest of us are close or over sixty. We had cloudy weather the first day and rain, snow, wind, and a few rises the next three days. What a great time we had, sharing stories across the generations around whatever fire we could start. The cliffs were shrouded in clouds and the baby geese hunkered down, not even scared of the crazy animals on the water. What a time, What a trip, What a river. A time to ponder all things as there are no distractions and the only thing to do is enjoy the river and each other. We all need more time to do these things and the Smith gives it all to us. Keep it clean, keep it real for generations to share.
31
http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyles/recreation/smith-river-rafter-look...
Nothing in Mr. Solomon's article about sleeping inside an electric fence, about emptying his bear spray on garbage habituated bears to little effect, or about desperate people shooting bears in the campground at 3 AM. There is another side to floating the Smith River and it doesn't sound that great to me.
Nothing in Mr. Solomon's article about sleeping inside an electric fence, about emptying his bear spray on garbage habituated bears to little effect, or about desperate people shooting bears in the campground at 3 AM. There is another side to floating the Smith River and it doesn't sound that great to me.
9
Then stay home. In Billings I assume, with corrupt politicians as your roommates.
8
Has no one else read that this proposed mine is on privately owned mining claims and ranches?
3
That's right- your land/mining rights supersedes every ones right to have a clean environment.
Except, when it turns into a superfund site and you expect that all of us should pay one way or another to clean up your stupendous mess.
Except, when it turns into a superfund site and you expect that all of us should pay one way or another to clean up your stupendous mess.
12
The public good ALWAYS supersedes the uses allowed private property. You may own your city lot, free and clear, but you may not be allowed to raise pigs on it, for example. Most of our environmental problems come from ignoring this fundamental precept of a decent society.
8
What's your point? That those owners ought to be able to do anything they like with that land? I can't image that anyone really believes that individual rights trump the interests of the public in every conceivable circumstance. Of course everyone will drawn the line somewhat differently, but these kinds of debates are likely to be productive only when one can find some common ground. (Pun intended!)
5
I was in Yellowstone yesterday, and the energy of the place just seems gone, the colors a greyer palette, and tons of Asian tourists, aging baby boomers, ect. The wildlife doesn't seem to flourish there in the same manor, with endless cars zipping around the place, hoards of tourists jumping out of their cars in huge numbers to photograph an elk. Just like Disney Land or Universal Studios, it should be time to consider other ways for people to view some sections of the park, such as elevated monorails that don't interfere with the natural wildlife from May through September.
17
I was there as well. I heard on NPR that the attendance is up 17% this year and to "pack your patience" when coming to visit. I agree -- an electric monorail sounds perfect to reduce the impact on the place.
1
It would be a cool idea but i don't know if it would actually reduce park congestion. It didn't seem too packed a couple weeks after the fourth, but i'm just not a people person..
I own land in the Smith River Canyon. It is the most beautiful place I have ever been. I cannot believe that it will be destroyed for a copper deposit with an economic life of all of thirteen years, and will directly employ thirty people in the White Sulphur Springs/Meagher County area.
Tintina is essentially a Canadian shell company recently financed by Sandfire Resources, an Australian copper gold miner. The copper deposit in question was almost developed in the 1970s by Cominco and Utah International. With declining copper prices, they lost interest and their leases lapsed. I can only hope that the price of copper remains low and this relatively modest (by world standards) remains undeveloped.
Yes, we need copper and other minerals. But there are many other places where copper is abundant, is presently mined, and where the environment has already been ruined. A copper mine in the Smith watershed is just an insult to one of the world's most beautiful spots.
My only consolation is that I will be dead before the worst effects of the inevitable destruction of the Smith occurs over the next twenty to thirty years.
Tintina is essentially a Canadian shell company recently financed by Sandfire Resources, an Australian copper gold miner. The copper deposit in question was almost developed in the 1970s by Cominco and Utah International. With declining copper prices, they lost interest and their leases lapsed. I can only hope that the price of copper remains low and this relatively modest (by world standards) remains undeveloped.
Yes, we need copper and other minerals. But there are many other places where copper is abundant, is presently mined, and where the environment has already been ruined. A copper mine in the Smith watershed is just an insult to one of the world's most beautiful spots.
My only consolation is that I will be dead before the worst effects of the inevitable destruction of the Smith occurs over the next twenty to thirty years.
36
Bob Carl - you said it. We are still working on the never ending reclamation left by the Copper Barons from Butte to Missoula. Just now starting to dig out or cap the nasty deposits all along the Clark Fork River. I've seen up close in my years of field work the messes left behind by mining all over Montana. Montana voters banned any new cyanide leach heap gold mining several yrs ago. The republican dominated state legislature has tried a few times last few years to get that overturned. The ban was a result of the mess left at the Pegasus mine in the Little Rockies in north central MT, and the still operating Golden Sunlight mine near Whitehall. Along with numerous smaller operations. But what really rallied the voters was the big proposed leach heap gold mine in the headwaters of the Blackfoot River.
11
Well said. And your consolation sends a chill up my spine. 13 years of mining against decades and decades of acidic tailings just waiting for one of Montana's famous spring deluges to wash it all down stream. The aftermath would be devastating.
I know the Smith well and my children have grown up in its waters. The loss would hit us too.
I know the Smith well and my children have grown up in its waters. The loss would hit us too.
2
The perfect NIMBY argument, publicly made; mine elsewhere to support your consumption.
As a would be fly fisherman, hiker and cyclist it alarms me that we still live in an age where the assault on public lands by companies foreign and domestic continues unabated. Public lands need protection but environmental concerns ebb and flow in our sound bite culture. Until we recognize that this is the only home mankind has and will have for centuries to come, this kind of careless capitalism will continue to rape the earth of her treasures.
17
I bought my slice of heaven in Colorado last year, a couple hundred acres on the Arkansas River. I chose Colorado because it has more democrats so less likely to be pillaged and plundered than Montana with its cadre of pollution loving republicans.
The real problem is that rivers flow through several states and republicans can kill a river upstream and destroy it for the contentious people downstream. They don't care and there is nothing that anyone can do about it, just look at the mess that all republican run states are in, especially in the south. Republicans have turned half of the states in this country into one big garbage dump. I live in a place called "Cancer Alley" now, a place so polluted that I can't drink the water that comes out of my well because it has an oily sheen to it that stains everything it touches.
You have to wonder why people would vote away their right to clean air, water and land?
The real problem is that rivers flow through several states and republicans can kill a river upstream and destroy it for the contentious people downstream. They don't care and there is nothing that anyone can do about it, just look at the mess that all republican run states are in, especially in the south. Republicans have turned half of the states in this country into one big garbage dump. I live in a place called "Cancer Alley" now, a place so polluted that I can't drink the water that comes out of my well because it has an oily sheen to it that stains everything it touches.
You have to wonder why people would vote away their right to clean air, water and land?
2
As a Montana native, I've had the privilege of floating this river perhaps a dozen times over two decades. The short-term wealth that copper might bring shouldn't trump the long-term sanctity of this river. Montana has fallen prey to outside promises of prosperity and security far too many times, only to see those promises broken, the foreign interests having fled, and our waters made toxic (see Silver Bow Creek, Blackfoot River, Belt Creek, Clark Fork River, and many, many more.) Solomon's final words say it best -- "Nothing must happen to this place."
28
There is really no discussion going on. It is an alusion to make everyone feel as if they do not cave-in to interests of wealth, and that they do not grant permission until guidelines are imposed. It is all so if environmental problems develop someday, pols and biz leaders can say that it happened in violation of their intents and agreements.
The mine will follow--there is not one chance in a thousand that it will not--tax revenue and jobs are the magic words to community biz leaders.
The mine will follow--there is not one chance in a thousand that it will not--tax revenue and jobs are the magic words to community biz leaders.
4
And that argument validates the Second Amendment. A foreign corporation tries to mine metals where it would damage our public lands, the principal officers need to watch their backs. Nobody has a right to endanger our public wild lands. Nobody.
7
As always in the extraction business, mining more than any other, it's socialize the risks, privatize the profits.
26
Actually, it's "externalize" the impacts and privatize the profits. The impacts are "shared" among all dwellers in the ecosystem, not just the "social" structures.
6
you're quite right! thank-you.
Anyone that believes that a spokesperson for a foreign-owned mining company has ANYTHING to say about board decisions is delusional. Their promises aren't worth the air it takes to spew them -- nor the paper to write them.
And fact is, if one wants to look at "modern mining" in Montana and the results of the lies told about how safe it was, merely look to the Golden Sunlight Mine near Whitehall, which was developed in the 90s and has created groundwater pollution so severe it will have to be treated "in perpetuity." Perpetuity is a long time, folks -- and only passes on the gaffes of present generations to future generations who will have to deal with the pollution or, more likely, simply live with it because there's no such thing as "full reclamation" of mining damaged lands. None.
And fact is, if one wants to look at "modern mining" in Montana and the results of the lies told about how safe it was, merely look to the Golden Sunlight Mine near Whitehall, which was developed in the 90s and has created groundwater pollution so severe it will have to be treated "in perpetuity." Perpetuity is a long time, folks -- and only passes on the gaffes of present generations to future generations who will have to deal with the pollution or, more likely, simply live with it because there's no such thing as "full reclamation" of mining damaged lands. None.
25
Remember when the folks at the proposed mine up the Blackfoot gave Bonnie Raitt reclaimed water without telling her? Oh they are an honest bunch all right.
2
We don't need more copper. Why not eliminate the penny, which costs more than a penny to make now.
8
Sorry to tell you, but the penny is made almost entirely of zinc and then coated with copper--the red metal is just too precious.
1
"Jerry Zieg, vice president for exploration at Tintina Resources, a Vancouver, British Columbia, company, wants to turn around his hometown’s fortunes." His company claims they will use techniques that will ensure that there will be no damage to the Smith River.
How? Well they haven't figured out how to get rid of half the waste, but the other half of that crushed waste rock will be combined with a cement like paste. They will put it back in the tunnels...where that cement will degrade over time and leak the chemical contents of the waste rock into the ground water and then into the Smith River.
Cement paste hardens into cement. Then cement breaks up. Whether it is underground, on your sidewalk, or your porch, eventually it cracks. Don't believe me. Take a look at your city sidewalks. Take a careful look at some the cement infrastructures underground, the bases of city buildings, the underside of bridges, your local underground parking lots.
Mr. Zieg, what was that you said about the safety of combining anything with cement?
How? Well they haven't figured out how to get rid of half the waste, but the other half of that crushed waste rock will be combined with a cement like paste. They will put it back in the tunnels...where that cement will degrade over time and leak the chemical contents of the waste rock into the ground water and then into the Smith River.
Cement paste hardens into cement. Then cement breaks up. Whether it is underground, on your sidewalk, or your porch, eventually it cracks. Don't believe me. Take a look at your city sidewalks. Take a careful look at some the cement infrastructures underground, the bases of city buildings, the underside of bridges, your local underground parking lots.
Mr. Zieg, what was that you said about the safety of combining anything with cement?
13
How many times have we been fooled by the same shell game? Mr Zieg will be pushing up daisies before this company's lies are fully manifest. And, quite likely, the company will have declared bankruptcy to escape liability.
12
What they don't mention is that the mine waste will be piled on the open,to leach acid and heavy metals until the mine is closed. Then with any luck it will be injected back into the mine. But when, not if,the company goes belly up, it abandon the mine. Goodbye Smith River.
3
a suggestion for Montana citizens. If Stillwater wants to mine at this critical watershed, then ask them to fund the states toxic waste/superfund clean up operations - and they can be allowed to go after past mining companies for the money as well.
The US Federal laws still allowing mining on Federal lands and pay NO royalties, NO ROYALTIES AT ALL!! And furthermore most of these profitable mines left toxic sludge, polluted water systems, and destroyed landscapes that local, state and federal taxes have to pay to clean up.
There should be a moratorium on any new mining, drilling, fracking, etc. until the companies who want to do these operations go out and clean up the mess that is already there. Once they can show a clean slate (landscape), then they can proceed. It's just like parents telling a child they can't go out and play until their room is cleaned up.
Unfortunately the $billions that extraction industries pour into our political system ensures that there will never be a clean landscape for our and future generations.
The US Federal laws still allowing mining on Federal lands and pay NO royalties, NO ROYALTIES AT ALL!! And furthermore most of these profitable mines left toxic sludge, polluted water systems, and destroyed landscapes that local, state and federal taxes have to pay to clean up.
There should be a moratorium on any new mining, drilling, fracking, etc. until the companies who want to do these operations go out and clean up the mess that is already there. Once they can show a clean slate (landscape), then they can proceed. It's just like parents telling a child they can't go out and play until their room is cleaned up.
Unfortunately the $billions that extraction industries pour into our political system ensures that there will never be a clean landscape for our and future generations.
20
I so agree, and have been saying so most of my adult life. If there is such a thing as safe or clean extraction of our non-renewable resources, I'd like to see it, because we can always use good jobs in this state. I am a fifth generation Montanan, and throughout our history this state has been taken advantage of, raped, actually, by out-of-state interests. Their promises are broken and the jobs never last. We are left to live with and/or clean up the messes. Most Montanans are here because of mining. It broke my great- grandfathers (who then went into farming) and killed my grandfather before his time, it's a part of our history, but it doesn't have to be our future. Just leave us in peace so we can enjoy the mountains and streams that we cherish and which keep us here.
9
Yes, most of enjoy the benefits of technology that relies on copper, precious metals and rare earth minerals. However, it also is clear that boosters of mine projects underestimate and/or ignore the proejcts' costs to the public (the rest of us). How about making the INDIVIDUALS within the company liable for any unforeseen environmental damage? If individuals have, in the past, made decisions that led to environmental disasters and then simply walked away by simply closing the company's doors, some incentive (or disincentive) on this behavior seems in order. If a decision maker knows that she/he will be held personally responsible for an environmental disaster of their making, maybe this would lead to better mine planning and operations. All these Red State people believe in personal accountability, don't they?
4
"As for the Smith, everyone agrees that it should not be harmed by the proposed copper mine. The question that no one can answer for certain is, Would it?"
Yes.
Yes.
9
Yeah, who needs pristine, jaw-droopingly beautiful nature like this when some two-bit mine-owner wants to put a copper mine there? After all, what could possibly go wrong?
What's wrong with us to contemplate such insanity? Really, what's wrong with us?
And thanks for the amazing photos, which convey at least some sense of the awesome landscape!
What's wrong with us to contemplate such insanity? Really, what's wrong with us?
And thanks for the amazing photos, which convey at least some sense of the awesome landscape!
12
The legacy of mining is waste, destruction, and endless spending to try to correct the problem. The copper will have to come from somewhere if we are to continue to be a technological world. Protecting the Smith River will sentence some other beautiful place to mining.
There is an alternative. Resisting new mines will drive up the price of copper until it will be worthwhile to look for it off-planet. Copper is the essential element in advanced technology, something that we have never found a substitute for. We have to have it. But we cannot destroy the planet getting it, or there will be no point in getting it.
Floating around out in space are chunks of everything that we can find on Earth, including copper. We have the ability to find a chunk of it, and we can learn how to carve off pieces of it, smelt it down to pure metal, and bring it down to Earth. Yes, it will cost a lot, but probably less than the Iraq war has.
At some point, we must begin to extract resources from somewhere other than Earth. Otherwise, we will destroy the only place in all that we can see where we can live. Or, we can give up our technology, and go back to hunting and gathering.
There is an alternative. Resisting new mines will drive up the price of copper until it will be worthwhile to look for it off-planet. Copper is the essential element in advanced technology, something that we have never found a substitute for. We have to have it. But we cannot destroy the planet getting it, or there will be no point in getting it.
Floating around out in space are chunks of everything that we can find on Earth, including copper. We have the ability to find a chunk of it, and we can learn how to carve off pieces of it, smelt it down to pure metal, and bring it down to Earth. Yes, it will cost a lot, but probably less than the Iraq war has.
At some point, we must begin to extract resources from somewhere other than Earth. Otherwise, we will destroy the only place in all that we can see where we can live. Or, we can give up our technology, and go back to hunting and gathering.
4
Reality check:
Northing is 'destroying the planet'. The planet is doing just fine, thank you, and will continue to do so into the indefinite future.
What is happening, however, is that we have too many people on the planet who demand too many resources. Metal mining isn't in the top 5 of the biggest problems, which include:
1) deforestation
2) acquifer depletion and contamination
3) urban sprawl
4) suburban sprawl
5) destruction of our ocean fisheries.
Solution: change the culture of 2nd and 3rd World countries to get people to stop having so many children.
Meanwhile, we still need metals.
And this article doesn't add to any meaningful dialogue about anything whatsoever.
Northing is 'destroying the planet'. The planet is doing just fine, thank you, and will continue to do so into the indefinite future.
What is happening, however, is that we have too many people on the planet who demand too many resources. Metal mining isn't in the top 5 of the biggest problems, which include:
1) deforestation
2) acquifer depletion and contamination
3) urban sprawl
4) suburban sprawl
5) destruction of our ocean fisheries.
Solution: change the culture of 2nd and 3rd World countries to get people to stop having so many children.
Meanwhile, we still need metals.
And this article doesn't add to any meaningful dialogue about anything whatsoever.
3
I agree we aren't close to farming copper for our technological umbilical cord--from reading this NYT, to entering an online river lottery, to how your favorite brewery is energized.
As you note, the copper our lifestyles demand will have to come from somewhere.
You point to space, but before that happens, the copper our lives depend on will more likely come from somewhere else and someone else's backyard.
Just your home's 400 pounds of copper required processing of 80,000 pounds of rock.
I will float the Smith someday, and I will use some of my river time to think about how efforts to "Save Our Smith" might indirectly translate into "Spoiling Their ___", unpronounceable rivers in Indonesia, Brazil, or Mongolia.
We need to open our eyes to where and how the ingredients of our life are sourced--including copper. Out of sight should not be out of mind.
As you note, the copper our lifestyles demand will have to come from somewhere.
You point to space, but before that happens, the copper our lives depend on will more likely come from somewhere else and someone else's backyard.
Just your home's 400 pounds of copper required processing of 80,000 pounds of rock.
I will float the Smith someday, and I will use some of my river time to think about how efforts to "Save Our Smith" might indirectly translate into "Spoiling Their ___", unpronounceable rivers in Indonesia, Brazil, or Mongolia.
We need to open our eyes to where and how the ingredients of our life are sourced--including copper. Out of sight should not be out of mind.
I have floated the Smith a dozen times. It is a spectacularly beautiful place and should be preserved at any cost. No mining company should be trusted. The mining industry in general has a very bad reputation. Look at the history of mining in the U.S. As usual, the dangling carrot is about jobs and prosperity, both of which are not worth any risk to the Smith River drainage. I hope Montanans don't fall for the corporate rhetoric as they so often do.
13
I live in Paradise Valley, north of Yellowstone. A Canadian mining company [why are they all Canadian??] has applied for a Forest Service permit to begin drilling for an eventual mine on 2500 acres of Emigrant Peak, in the Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness. Emigrant Gulch has been mined since the 1880's but as placer mining since the gold found here is of the "flour" variety. To get at the gold, the Canadian company, Lucky Minerals, would have to eventually create an open pit mine, like the infamous Berkeley Pit in Butte. 2800 letters opposing this mine were sent to the USFS by the end of the comment period a few days ago.
It is remarkable that this permit is even being discussed. Emigrant Peak is part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and crucial to all the animals we see in Yellowstone National Park. Sadly, no matter how the USFS feels about this, they are compelled by the onerous existing laws to consider this permit and, because the reasons for rejecting it are so narrow, most likely eventually approve it.
The Smith River is beautiful, but so is the Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness. Please write your congressman or woman to ask that this "last best place" be saved for future generations.
It is remarkable that this permit is even being discussed. Emigrant Peak is part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and crucial to all the animals we see in Yellowstone National Park. Sadly, no matter how the USFS feels about this, they are compelled by the onerous existing laws to consider this permit and, because the reasons for rejecting it are so narrow, most likely eventually approve it.
The Smith River is beautiful, but so is the Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness. Please write your congressman or woman to ask that this "last best place" be saved for future generations.
14
Thank you for this. I wrote a comment too on Emigrant Gulch. People say that public input does matter. I wish I could take most of the NY Times comments on this copper mine and send them to the permitting agency or to Sen. Tester . Rep. Zinke and Sen. Daines also represent Montana but I know that Daines wants to privatize public lands for more resource extraction.
I have floated the Smith many times. Several times recently by drawing a permit, and a number of times prior to the permitting plan being put in place. It is one of the greatest floats you will ever make.
I have never discussed it on BB or in comments before as I didn't want to see the number of application soar to new highs.
Having a mine, any kind of mine, that might or could impact this river would be a crime. I hope that our local government officials have learned from past mistakes and incidents that once destroyed, it is virtually impossible to regain or reclaim the land. I would mention places like the Zortman mine, the Berkley Pit, the list goes on and on.
Just seeing the photos of an area I love so much makes me yearn to go back once again. Oh, the stories I could tell about the early years when it was tough to get permission to even launch a boat. Driving down steep mountain trails in the middle of the night....all to float a river that few knew existed. Showering in a small stream that ends in a waterfall into the Smith. Rocks in the middle of the river that had a bit of help getting there.
I floated the river once in early April, and had to paddle hard down river to counter the blizzard winds blowing us up river. There is simply no better place in the world.
I have never discussed it on BB or in comments before as I didn't want to see the number of application soar to new highs.
Having a mine, any kind of mine, that might or could impact this river would be a crime. I hope that our local government officials have learned from past mistakes and incidents that once destroyed, it is virtually impossible to regain or reclaim the land. I would mention places like the Zortman mine, the Berkley Pit, the list goes on and on.
Just seeing the photos of an area I love so much makes me yearn to go back once again. Oh, the stories I could tell about the early years when it was tough to get permission to even launch a boat. Driving down steep mountain trails in the middle of the night....all to float a river that few knew existed. Showering in a small stream that ends in a waterfall into the Smith. Rocks in the middle of the river that had a bit of help getting there.
I floated the river once in early April, and had to paddle hard down river to counter the blizzard winds blowing us up river. There is simply no better place in the world.
13
A miner told me that anytime you mine near water the process will pollute. Everytime. He said "mate if your going to mine do it in the deserts where there's no water". Some places are to precious to mine for copper and this story sounds just like the Canadian Mine proposal in Alaska-Pebble Mine. A fabulous wild gem of a place , beautiful water, a multi billion dollar copper deposit , a International mining company that says their will be no environmental impacts , what could go wrong?
19
Scott from Austin makes a valid observation: We commenters who oppose the mine are using electronic devices dependent on copper and other metals derived from mining. But, this raises a question of awareness, not hypocrisy.
Few of us are willing to return to a medieval life where we grow our own food, slaughter our own animals, buy (or barter for) goods that are made locally with local raw materials. And, most of us would say that our overall quality of life has improved with the growth of technology and division of labor, leading to the distance between creation/manufacture and consumption.
What has developed over time, especially since Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring," is the recognition that our quality of life can have devastating consequences for the environment and distant populations. This doesn't lead to a dichotomy: Do I live a life with modern conveniences, or do I forgo those in order to protect the environment? Instead, we can choose to use modern conveniences while looking for ways to minimize their negative impact.
So, yes, we choose to oppose a new mine on the Smith River, leaving the source of our computers' copper to mines in the developing world. But, we can also insist that the mining companies act responsibly in those foreign lands by taking steps to protect the environment. After all, if they're willing to do that in Montana, why not in Africa or Asia?
Few of us are willing to return to a medieval life where we grow our own food, slaughter our own animals, buy (or barter for) goods that are made locally with local raw materials. And, most of us would say that our overall quality of life has improved with the growth of technology and division of labor, leading to the distance between creation/manufacture and consumption.
What has developed over time, especially since Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring," is the recognition that our quality of life can have devastating consequences for the environment and distant populations. This doesn't lead to a dichotomy: Do I live a life with modern conveniences, or do I forgo those in order to protect the environment? Instead, we can choose to use modern conveniences while looking for ways to minimize their negative impact.
So, yes, we choose to oppose a new mine on the Smith River, leaving the source of our computers' copper to mines in the developing world. But, we can also insist that the mining companies act responsibly in those foreign lands by taking steps to protect the environment. After all, if they're willing to do that in Montana, why not in Africa or Asia?
1
I was CEO of Stillwater Mining Co. from 1999 To 2001. Our platinum and paladium mine located in Nye, Mt is on the Stillwater River. For many years prior to my arrival the Co. had a perfect environmental record. in process
We were also in process of permitting a new mine on the East Boulder River in Sweetwater county. As it happens many prominent people have ranches there.
I received a surprising phone call from a very well known broadcaster whose voice was instantly recognisable. Next there was a very negative editorial in the NY Times! I did not expect this type of attention.
I decided to meet with our neighbors to present our case and hear theirs. I found most of the people to be quite reasonable so we decided to see if we could negotiate an agreement which all parties could agree with. Under the auspices of the local environmental group in conjunction with the state group and technical/legal support, over many months we negotiated a tight, transparent agreement which opened both the mines to the group. From the company's viewpoint, we had nothing to hide and our environmental commitment was demonstrated. Yes, it cost some money, but little compared to an adversial approach.
So it is possible to operate a safe mine in Mt. and directly on two rivers! People of good faith can make things happen which benefit the community all around. People with closed minds don't benefit anything in the long run.
We were also in process of permitting a new mine on the East Boulder River in Sweetwater county. As it happens many prominent people have ranches there.
I received a surprising phone call from a very well known broadcaster whose voice was instantly recognisable. Next there was a very negative editorial in the NY Times! I did not expect this type of attention.
I decided to meet with our neighbors to present our case and hear theirs. I found most of the people to be quite reasonable so we decided to see if we could negotiate an agreement which all parties could agree with. Under the auspices of the local environmental group in conjunction with the state group and technical/legal support, over many months we negotiated a tight, transparent agreement which opened both the mines to the group. From the company's viewpoint, we had nothing to hide and our environmental commitment was demonstrated. Yes, it cost some money, but little compared to an adversial approach.
So it is possible to operate a safe mine in Mt. and directly on two rivers! People of good faith can make things happen which benefit the community all around. People with closed minds don't benefit anything in the long run.
8
Your approach is both logical and proper. And I agree that water run off can be flawless.
Most of the ranchers and farmers that you met with are responsible for most of the pollution of the Missouri River. The Missouri today is undrinkable,,, last summer's water quality was so bad,, I would not use it to flush a toilet. Not an exaggeration. Pea soup green thick with algae and mossy floating yuck, water clarity measured in inches,,, single digits.
And totally non-potable. Canoers spending a week or two in the 'Breaks' National Monument must bring all of their drinking water. Their is not a potable water tap available from Coal Bank Landing to the James Kipp,,, 110 miles. Agri-chemicals cannot be filtered.
Copper mines have a troublesome past and they produce some truly difficult and poisonous waste water.
Tell me,,, how do you remove copper, lead, or arsenic from water? Can you stop rain? Can the tailings pile be absolutely shielded from rain and snow?
I will grant you one thing,,, a bit of copper in the water will utterly kill all the algae there now.
Most of the ranchers and farmers that you met with are responsible for most of the pollution of the Missouri River. The Missouri today is undrinkable,,, last summer's water quality was so bad,, I would not use it to flush a toilet. Not an exaggeration. Pea soup green thick with algae and mossy floating yuck, water clarity measured in inches,,, single digits.
And totally non-potable. Canoers spending a week or two in the 'Breaks' National Monument must bring all of their drinking water. Their is not a potable water tap available from Coal Bank Landing to the James Kipp,,, 110 miles. Agri-chemicals cannot be filtered.
Copper mines have a troublesome past and they produce some truly difficult and poisonous waste water.
Tell me,,, how do you remove copper, lead, or arsenic from water? Can you stop rain? Can the tailings pile be absolutely shielded from rain and snow?
I will grant you one thing,,, a bit of copper in the water will utterly kill all the algae there now.
4
Yes Sir, it is possible. It is just that your experience, how Stillwater Mine approached it is so unusual as to be the exception that proves the rule. For many years I visited several gold/silver mines in Montana picking up the extracted precious metals. I was always appalled by how the area were being destroyed, but held to the hope that they would restore the mountains once they were done. One of those was Zortman, well, we all know what happened there. Another was Basin Creek Mine above Helena. The last I heard, it was closed and little reclamation was done.
Even if the owners of the mine were my neighbors and I trusted them like my brother, I would not approve a mine anywhere near the Smith River. I have come to realize that very, very few companies have any real sense of decency or a soul. They have a single overriding edict, to make money. There will be spills, there will be accidents, events, and oooppps. In the end, those that live there will be sorry the mine existed.
Even if the owners of the mine were my neighbors and I trusted them like my brother, I would not approve a mine anywhere near the Smith River. I have come to realize that very, very few companies have any real sense of decency or a soul. They have a single overriding edict, to make money. There will be spills, there will be accidents, events, and oooppps. In the end, those that live there will be sorry the mine existed.
And if you have that experience in Montana you also know, are aren't sharing, the fact that 99.9% of all the extraction here has resulted in huge problems - poisoned water, left leach pits, left piles of toxic tailing and resulted in money going out of state. Don't pie-in-the-sky Montanans, we know all about mining, its legacy and its cost. And one exception - if yours truly was an exception - does not a rule make.
3
Christopher Solomon asks, "As for the Smith, everyone agrees that it should not be harmed by the proposed copper mine. The question that no one can answer for certain is, Would it?"
The answer is simple. Yes, the Smith River would be harmed by the copper mine. We can debate the uncertainties, be swayed by the industry's promises, and argue that new technology will prevent harm. But in the end the Smith River will be harmed by the mine. It is that simple. The real question is, what do we value more, the copper or the Smith River?
The answer is simple. Yes, the Smith River would be harmed by the copper mine. We can debate the uncertainties, be swayed by the industry's promises, and argue that new technology will prevent harm. But in the end the Smith River will be harmed by the mine. It is that simple. The real question is, what do we value more, the copper or the Smith River?
8
The mining company has no intention of mining responsibly or protecting the environment. It is not their job or responsibilty. Even if they tried that would never account for the destruction a single accident may wrought. Right now their singular goals is to get the mine open. To do so they will do or say anything required. Once in place you will never get them out until the mine no longer produces a profit. Their job, their one and only responsibility is to produce profit for the owners and shareholders, as well as pay off the lobbyists and politicians in their pockets. So Montana, know that and make your decision based on facts, if you are at all even allowed to make a decision!
10
A wonderful article. Mr. Solomon is indeed a WRITER. And thanks to Ms. Osborne for the beautiful photographs and to the NYT for publishing such a fine journalistic effort. I do hope that sense wins over corporate greed and that the Smith wins.
3
The answer is "No, the Smith River cannot survive this copper mine." There is no other.
2
It's the old story - benefit the few at the expense of the many.
7
I do not want to see this mine go ahead. But, while we don't benefit financially, many of us reading and responding have done so by electrical connection thanks to copper wire. I light candles for ambiance more often than I do to read by.
As a geologist, conservationist and resident of Montana I know that mining can be done safely when done properly. Montana does have a poor history when it comes to mining, one only needs to go the Berkeley pit to see that, but this is not a fair comparison to a modern underground operation. Historic underground mining, and later open pit mining in Butte was not subject to any environmental regulation. Modern mining in Montana is done well, safely and subject to intense scrutiny. Stillwater Mining Company has been mining on the Stillwater river since 1986 and on the East Boulder starting in 1999. Both of these rivers are blue ribbon trout streams and are regularly enjoyed by locals and tourists. The Stillwater complex is also a massive sulfide deposit, and underground mine. If this mine goes in, it can be mined safely and maintain the pristine nature of the Smith River. Remember everyone uses copper, just turn on your lights.
1
All true until the mine plays out. Then the company or one of its shells will declare bankruptcy and abandon the mine,just like mining companies have done for hundreds of years.
But, what will happen when the mining companies leave? Those details always seem to be absent.
This reminds a lot of the housing development we see here in the NYC region. Developments go in front of the zoning and planning boards with experts that say there will be no traffic problems. They say traffic flows will be designed so that the neighbors will never notice.
Then one day after the development opens and you're stuck in traffic you wonder how this could have happened.
Then one day after the development opens and you're stuck in traffic you wonder how this could have happened.
4
Every mining corporation claims they can do their thing and protect the environment. Fracking, gold, copper, coal, pipelines, you name it---all perfectly safe. Nothing to fear! Koch Industries and Americans for Prosperity spend $5 million a day on this kind of propaganda. Ban fracking! No mining anywhere near watersheds.
4
I've seen with my own eyes what copper mining can do to a river. Google "Bougainville Copper Jaba River" and see what you get. I lived for some time not far from Panguna, and traveled along the destroyed river many times.
It's certainly true that the miners were under no obligation to be careful about what they did (this was in a colonial situation with no environmental protection regulations in place), and what they did to the river was extreme (dump tailings and processing chemical waste directly into the river) compared to what's planned for the Montana mine.
Nevertheless, the Bougainville mess is an example of what can happen when things go wrong.
What, you mean things can go wrong? Who knew?
It's certainly true that the miners were under no obligation to be careful about what they did (this was in a colonial situation with no environmental protection regulations in place), and what they did to the river was extreme (dump tailings and processing chemical waste directly into the river) compared to what's planned for the Montana mine.
Nevertheless, the Bougainville mess is an example of what can happen when things go wrong.
What, you mean things can go wrong? Who knew?
3
Poor Montana, raped and pillaged. Treasures such as this river are our wealth. Timber and mining and a few jobs offered to hungry unemployed locals. Third generation of lung deaths in the town of Libby from a vermiculite mine thought to be a safe way to provide income. Company bankrupt, our friends still dying.
7
I wonder if the mining company is sure enough of their process that they would post a bond up front, to cover the costs of superfund clean-up. They can have their money back a decade or two after they are done.
No? Too expensive? Then the process must not be that good.
No? Too expensive? Then the process must not be that good.
41
This was supposed to be the case with many mines now closed, and left unreclaimed. Zortman, Basin Creek, and others, that are now polluting and have destroyed their surroundings.
Posting a bond will do no good. I say, if it is allowed, make them post 5 x the highest cost estimate in actual cash. Put it into a trust account managed by Green Peace or some other environmental group. Each year analyze the expected cost to reclaim, and the amount on file has to be 5 x that amount, so the amount on hand increases with inflation and the size of the operation. The CEO and all senior management, must also sign their own personal net worth as collateral. Finally, have the same group agree that they will be personally responsible and will be held criminally accountable for any accidents.
The key is holding those running the mine to be criminally responsible.
Posting a bond will do no good. I say, if it is allowed, make them post 5 x the highest cost estimate in actual cash. Put it into a trust account managed by Green Peace or some other environmental group. Each year analyze the expected cost to reclaim, and the amount on file has to be 5 x that amount, so the amount on hand increases with inflation and the size of the operation. The CEO and all senior management, must also sign their own personal net worth as collateral. Finally, have the same group agree that they will be personally responsible and will be held criminally accountable for any accidents.
The key is holding those running the mine to be criminally responsible.
This is what the holdup is all about and why Sandfire now owns controlling stock in Tintina. The bond costs a lot of money, is fraught with regulation and oversight and does not lend itself to profits but Tintina/Sandire's fight has bought the rest of us time to study, understand and push harder for them to do the right thing. Tintina was not able to secure the bond on its own and that is why Sandfire was sold controlling stock and will, most likely, take over once active mining starts.
The articles mentions Montana's Clark Fork Superfund site... I grew up in Deer Lodge through which the Clark Fork and its mining tailings run, though improvements have been made. Article also mentions Zortman-Landusky waste site... I volunteered for a couple years as a teacher on the adjoining Fort Belknap Indian Reservation, and potable water quality was always a concern; there, the top of the mountain in the Little Rockies was literally lopped off; one can see the mountain top's treeless glimmering rock quarry, when the sun hits it, from fifty miles away.
The problem is the combination of a couple items above: the pollution caused by corporate mining, but also the state's poor school system that relegates its graduates to lives of coal, gold, and copper digging and tree and mountain top severing... and, in turn, their children to the caustic after-effects of their toil.
C'mon, Montana. Improve your schools and the incomparable Smith River, and other amazing areas, wouldn't be on the chopping block.
The problem is the combination of a couple items above: the pollution caused by corporate mining, but also the state's poor school system that relegates its graduates to lives of coal, gold, and copper digging and tree and mountain top severing... and, in turn, their children to the caustic after-effects of their toil.
C'mon, Montana. Improve your schools and the incomparable Smith River, and other amazing areas, wouldn't be on the chopping block.
11
It is always the foreign companies claiming that when they leave the mine, the landscape will magically heal or even be better. Here in southern Arizona, a Canadian company is planning of destroying the east side of the Santa Rita Mountains with a mile-deep hole in the ground, piles of cyanide leached tailings, and shipment of the extracted ore directly to China via enormous trucks on a two-lane scenic highway. All of the concerns are poo-pooed- yes the enormous trucks will likely kill other motorists, yes the Native American sacred areas will be bulldozed, but that is the price to pay to make some foreign investors rich.
12
Thank you for this. I will check out when the public comment period is and send in a comment. People say that does make a difference. I love the Castles and that river and it is a good article. I am glad a previous commenter mentioned meic also - a very trustworthy and professional group.
3
It is unrealistic to believe that this deposit can be mined and there be no damage to the environment. And it is not appropriate for someone such as myself sitting in my office in NYC to pass judgment as to what should be approved, or not. Personally I would prefer that this amazing area be preserved and left unspoiled.
However in the end it is the residents of this area that will decide do they want jobs (temporary at best or until the ore runs out) or an unspoiled ecosystem, clean water...etc. As history has shown they cannot fool themselves that they can have both and to think otherwise is deceiving oneself.
However in the end it is the residents of this area that will decide do they want jobs (temporary at best or until the ore runs out) or an unspoiled ecosystem, clean water...etc. As history has shown they cannot fool themselves that they can have both and to think otherwise is deceiving oneself.
7
I have fished the Smith with my dear friend Mike Geary for over 20 years. Our 20 year old grandson has rowed a gear boat, for Lewis and Clark, the last couple of years. The only thing changed and degrading the Smith is the numbers of "fishers" who must have a couple of cases of beer apiece and a boom box to complete their perception of her beauty. That said, Mr Solomon's comments are spot on, indeed understated, for a venue whose peace and beauty cannot be put into words
2
It's unthinkable to mine anywhere near the Smith (or the upper reaches of the Yellowstone River, where the newest mine is proposed). But unless and until Congress changes the antiquated 1873 Mining Law that enables the exploitation of public land and resources for private gain, the mining companies will remain largely unchecked.
6
You have to get rid of all the republicans in congress if you want air that you can breathe and water that you can drink because they will NEVER change the antiquated mining laws, republicans are bout by foreign countries now, they belong to Canada and Russia and Mexico and all the other countries who are here to rape, pillage and plunder our natural resources.
Think of XL pipeline owned by Canadians, who were the ONLY ones in Congress pushing for that? Republicans bribed by foreign nationals to betray their own country.
Think of XL pipeline owned by Canadians, who were the ONLY ones in Congress pushing for that? Republicans bribed by foreign nationals to betray their own country.
I can see it now. For years the river is visibly the same, but fishing is not what it used to be. Then a few dead fish are seen floating by. Then tests that were done by the company and showed everything below legal standards are done by an independent body and toxins not covered by standards are found. OOps - too late. Another pristine body of water gone the way of others is written off as the price of development.
4
I'm tired of this capitalistic paradigm to which the country has sold its soul and its natural beauty. The cry for jobs is only needed because CEOs keep most of the profit themselves. We could have a four-day work week and allow for more people to have "full employment," and everyone could make the same salary with the reduced hours. We could allow a 30-hour work week count as qualification for full medical benefits. We could make this area in the article be a National Park and keep the mining fanatics out of it because now as people need to work fewer hours, they can go and enjoy the natural beauty more often, thereby keeping themselves and the land healthier. We could do all of this, but we don't because we don't already do it and because somebody would want to make more money. We need an effective way to make rich egomaniacs understand that they have enough.
4
Alaska's people know all too well the cost of copper mines. We also have had a Canadian company come to try to mine the headwaters of Bristol Bay's watershed, and after many lawsuits, we may keep the mine out. Chuitna is the latest battle. If the people of Montana really want this mine stopped, they can do it through the courts. But it takes a lot of money and a lot of will.
6
Thank you for bringing this issue to a national audience through a well-written article and spectacular photos. The Smith is a pristine gem. Anyone who has ever floated it will carry fond memories of the river with them forever.
It is imperative that this generation of Montanans be good stewards of our rivers so that future generations can enjoy them. Unfortunately, mining has a long history in this state and job development is encouraged, particularly in poor areas like Meagher County. When it comes to jobs versus the environment, the environment seem to always lose. I agree that there is no safe mining. There is always a negative impact to the environment. Once damage is done, it is irreversible. Toxic acid mine run-off in the Smith? The possibility is heartbreaking. It is naïve to think that the mine will not negatively affect the Smith. I wish that Montanans could vote on this issue. Unfortunately, if the mine successfully navigates the permitting process, the mine will probably be approved.
There is a group in Montana that is fighting the mine: Montana Environmental Information Center
www.meic.org
107 W. Lawrence Street, Suite N-6
P.O. Box 1184
Helena, MT 59624
(406) 443-2520
Slogan: S.O.S. -- Save Our Smith!
It is imperative that this generation of Montanans be good stewards of our rivers so that future generations can enjoy them. Unfortunately, mining has a long history in this state and job development is encouraged, particularly in poor areas like Meagher County. When it comes to jobs versus the environment, the environment seem to always lose. I agree that there is no safe mining. There is always a negative impact to the environment. Once damage is done, it is irreversible. Toxic acid mine run-off in the Smith? The possibility is heartbreaking. It is naïve to think that the mine will not negatively affect the Smith. I wish that Montanans could vote on this issue. Unfortunately, if the mine successfully navigates the permitting process, the mine will probably be approved.
There is a group in Montana that is fighting the mine: Montana Environmental Information Center
www.meic.org
107 W. Lawrence Street, Suite N-6
P.O. Box 1184
Helena, MT 59624
(406) 443-2520
Slogan: S.O.S. -- Save Our Smith!
17
Lee - Thank you for letting us know. I will, for the first time in my life, join an environmental movement. This river is just too precious to take any chance with damaging.
This river is Art...
Art is her name..
'Hope and Memory have one daughter and her name is Art'
W.B Yeats
If there's a remote chance that mining would destroy this river, which there is, then there should be no mine....
Art is her name..
'Hope and Memory have one daughter and her name is Art'
W.B Yeats
If there's a remote chance that mining would destroy this river, which there is, then there should be no mine....
6
Keep digging and voting Republican, Montana. Maybe someday you too can be a glorious toxic nirvana like West Virginia.or the Alberta Tar Sands. Mmmmm, good living'.
8
Montana is not the deep red state you imagine. Many state officials, including the governor, are Democrats. They have a Democratic senator, and until recently had two. Unfortunately, not all problems can be boiled down to "Republicans are bad."
There is nothing sacred when it comes to the almighty dollar.
5
Given that, on average, the typical person will use a ton of copper over the course of his/her lifetime, it's not "the" almighty dollar, it's your almighty dollar.
I have read through 30 comments - none support the mine and all are hypocritical. Every comment was written on a computer or smartphone laden with copper, precious metals, and rare metals. Every writer enjoys the benefits of a copper electrical infrastructure. This material was all mined. If we don't mine it here, it will be mined in the developing world where there are no environmental protections. Lets stop exporting our pollution and take responsibility for our lifestyles.
4
Your right we all are hypocrites but at some point we have to save some of the last pristine places left in America for future generations.
6
Reverse psychology failure.
Of course we are all hypocritical at some level. Most Conservatives hate environmental regulations, but would never tolerate contamination of their drinking water or Beijing levels of air pollution. Liberals love to travel - often by air. A cross country flight will generate a ton of carbon emissions for each traveler.
Regarding mining, you are correct that we need copper and other metals to feed our high tech life style. Conservative economists used to advocate pricing external environmental costs into the price of products - including energy, autos, paint, food, and consumer electronics. The challenge with hard rock mining is that it is very difficult to estimate the life-time cost of managing and treating acid mine drainage and other sources of pollution from mining. That is why every new mine proposal is met with heavy skepticism. Often locals who theoretically would benefit the most fro mine development are the biggest critics. There are no easy answers, but we have make new mine projects pay up front all of the potential future costs of reclamation. Many of the proposed mining projects will never pencil out.
Regarding mining, you are correct that we need copper and other metals to feed our high tech life style. Conservative economists used to advocate pricing external environmental costs into the price of products - including energy, autos, paint, food, and consumer electronics. The challenge with hard rock mining is that it is very difficult to estimate the life-time cost of managing and treating acid mine drainage and other sources of pollution from mining. That is why every new mine proposal is met with heavy skepticism. Often locals who theoretically would benefit the most fro mine development are the biggest critics. There are no easy answers, but we have make new mine projects pay up front all of the potential future costs of reclamation. Many of the proposed mining projects will never pencil out.
1
Is there no spot left untouched by industrial greed?
Don't touch it, don't touch it, PLEASE DEAR GOD DON'T TOUCH IT.
Don't touch it, don't touch it, PLEASE DEAR GOD DON'T TOUCH IT.
6
The mine will ruin the Smith. The company will deny it even while it is happening and much harder once it is proven. Technology does not exist to prevent it and Montana's history with mines offers no incentive for the owners to try. What will be gone, will never come back despite public dollars wasted on trying. This mine will get a handful of people richer and destroy yet another irreplaceable landscape. Even when we know, we never learn.
8
How many people now earn a living derived from the river and it's recreational activities? What is the total economic activity generated by it's current use. It is lovely, but this vital information is missing from the discussion.
There is no information missing...
Yes, More jobs will be there if the mine develops than the recreation
use provides.... The recreation use goes on for generations. The mine goes on
until the 'miscalculated accident' occurs. Then the mining jobs are gone, the recreation jobs are gone and the river , for all it's beauty, is destroyed....for generations. It's called 'shortsighted'...
Yes, More jobs will be there if the mine develops than the recreation
use provides.... The recreation use goes on for generations. The mine goes on
until the 'miscalculated accident' occurs. Then the mining jobs are gone, the recreation jobs are gone and the river , for all it's beauty, is destroyed....for generations. It's called 'shortsighted'...
1
I don't believe this is just about who stands to lose income from recreational activities on the Smith. Our rivers, streams and lakes provide much needed CLEAN water for people, animals and plant species. Before you make this again about money, please see the larger picture. These activities cost Montana more than recreational income, much much more. I am a native Montanan, and very much believe in bringing jobs to our communities. However, these types of jobs are short-lived in the scheme of life, the after-effects can be, and in many cases throughout Montana ARE, infinite. Would I personally give up the cell phone and computer for clean waterways and healthy flora/fauna, IN A HEARTBEAT
No, the Smith River will NOT survive.
I have paddled Montana rivers. I love being in the back country. Last summer that was nearly three weeks on the Marias and Missouri Rivers. The Marias joins just 40 miles downstream of the Smith. Third time paddling out there with decades between.
Montana DOES NOT take care of its rivers. They issue permits to take water and dump waste nearly every day, 600 per year?,, and approve nearly everything. The Missouri River today looks like ham and green pea soup. Absolutely undrinkable,,, even with a proper filter,,, 'cause ya can''t filter out the agri-chemicals. For a three week trip I carried all my drinking water.
And now they are even remotely considering COPPER WASTE ? Copper is what you put on the hull of a boat so barnacles and weed can't grow.
Hmmm.. it might kill all that floating mossy yuck in the river today.
In 40 years I've been on those rivers three times. In 40 years they have gone from wonderful and amazing , to okay and turbid, to water I would not flush my toilet with.
By past performance, and current policy and non regulation,, I can with personal history and observation answer the article's title question with authority.
No, the Smith River will certainly NOT survive. Unless the citizens of Montana get up on their horsebacks and fix it. What was, IS lost,,, ya wanna lose more? What are the cattle and people going to drink?
I have paddled Montana rivers. I love being in the back country. Last summer that was nearly three weeks on the Marias and Missouri Rivers. The Marias joins just 40 miles downstream of the Smith. Third time paddling out there with decades between.
Montana DOES NOT take care of its rivers. They issue permits to take water and dump waste nearly every day, 600 per year?,, and approve nearly everything. The Missouri River today looks like ham and green pea soup. Absolutely undrinkable,,, even with a proper filter,,, 'cause ya can''t filter out the agri-chemicals. For a three week trip I carried all my drinking water.
And now they are even remotely considering COPPER WASTE ? Copper is what you put on the hull of a boat so barnacles and weed can't grow.
Hmmm.. it might kill all that floating mossy yuck in the river today.
In 40 years I've been on those rivers three times. In 40 years they have gone from wonderful and amazing , to okay and turbid, to water I would not flush my toilet with.
By past performance, and current policy and non regulation,, I can with personal history and observation answer the article's title question with authority.
No, the Smith River will certainly NOT survive. Unless the citizens of Montana get up on their horsebacks and fix it. What was, IS lost,,, ya wanna lose more? What are the cattle and people going to drink?
8
The copper mine should NEVER be allowed to happen.
2
We really need to protect the only home we will ever have.
6
CHRISTOPHER SOLOMON you are one smart guy........take a trip down the Smith River in Montana and get paid to do it!!!
2
The obscene rape of the land continues, unless we fiercely defend and protect it.
10
Obviously from this account and the photos, the Smith is one of the treasures of the US, a place where people can go to feel in awe of nature. Copper is a mere commodity, and somewhat fungible, at that.
Have there ever been any mines as close as this one would be to a river which haven't damaged that river? H. sapiens developers have a lousy track record.
Have there ever been any mines as close as this one would be to a river which haven't damaged that river? H. sapiens developers have a lousy track record.
3
Where is comedian George Carlin when we need him: mine-owner Jerry Zieg's "environmentally friendly mine" is as oxymoronic as "military intelligence" and "business ethics".
11
The Smith River will not survive.
Montana rubber stamps just about every water permit application that comes through. The Missouri River water last summer was so thick and green you could not see 6 inches into it. A hat that blew over board was lost the moment it sank,, nice big wide brimmed white hat wasn't visible in a foot of water? Murk? On the Missouri River in the Upper Missouri River Breaks National Monument, you have to carry every drop of your drinking water.
The Smith river will not survive. And when copper mining plays out,, they'll just declare bankruptcy and leave the mess behind.
No, the Smith River will not survive.
Montana rubber stamps just about every water permit application that comes through. The Missouri River water last summer was so thick and green you could not see 6 inches into it. A hat that blew over board was lost the moment it sank,, nice big wide brimmed white hat wasn't visible in a foot of water? Murk? On the Missouri River in the Upper Missouri River Breaks National Monument, you have to carry every drop of your drinking water.
The Smith river will not survive. And when copper mining plays out,, they'll just declare bankruptcy and leave the mess behind.
No, the Smith River will not survive.
7
Yes, it WILL survive. All it will take is a lot of people contributing a lot of money to sue DEQ. I speak from experience. We sue DEQ, and tie the company up for years in court and if we get a ruling we don't like, we raise more money and file another lawsuit. We outspend them, out sue them and outwait them, then we pass the lawsuit down to the next generation and let them continue the fight until the mine owners die of old age. The answer is money, what was the question?
3
Montana, don't do it. God made that place. He is watchng us to see what we do with it.
6
Does the United States need that copper and coal? Coal mines are currently closing an a record rate Two of the largest coal mining firms recently declared bankruptcy and a third is teetering. There have been major slowdowns at other copper mines. Much of the global demand for copper had been driven by the overheated Chinese economy which is now cooling down. You cannot put back pristine. We need to leave some areas in their natural state for present and future generations.
30
There exists NO safe mining, no technology which is foolproof, and the record of the mining industry is testament to that. Mining companies almost always are capital venture schemes designed to pull out as many resources and as much money as possible in as short a time as possible. They notoriously disappear, often in bankruptcy, when the resource price declines or is used up and/or when something goes wrong with the mine leaving the taxpayer on the hook for the "cleanup" which is in fact often impossible. If Montanans truly love this river the mine should not be permitted. The bulk of the wealth from any mine never stays in the community and while there may be a short term economic boon to locals like all resource based activities it won't last. Not if but when the Smith River is destroyed as a result of the mine what will be left will be a toxic mix of pollution and economic ruin. There is no mining model other than this one.
66
I grew up in Great Falls, Montana and spent my summers in the Little Belt mountains just north of the Smith river. In the late sixties, after finding toxic amounts of arsenic, a significant byproduct of gold and copper mining, in our water, we had to divest ourselves of our land for a fraction of what we'd paid for it. Mining companies have been raping this pristine place for many decades; there is no reason to believe they would behave any differently now.
78
I wish I could float it before they kill it. The best part of the article is the ignorance of the river guide. He votes conservative, and yet expects republicans to respect our environment. It seems there are fools in every corner of our country who consistently vote against their own self interests.
19
Well, I suppose the investors can't see the tortured landscape from their gated communities.
5
There are some places in this world that are magical. The original inhabitants mark them as spiritual, holy. Our Western sensibilities lead us to use different language, but the experience is the same: an ineffable sense of wonder and awe. One cannot capture this feeling in photographs (although the photos are spectacular), one must actually be in the place itself, be surrounded by it, be taken over by its power. I have never been on the Smith River, but I have been in Princess Louisa Inlet in British Columbia, and I want my ashes scattered there.
Legislators sitting in state capitols or DC hear the lobbyists claiming the benefits of development loud and clear, but the testimony of ordinary people who say "but this place is magical, it must not be harmed" carry little weight — it just sounds like words. People who haven't been there just don't get it. Those who propose to develop wild places should be required to spend a week immersed in them before making their decisions.
Legislators sitting in state capitols or DC hear the lobbyists claiming the benefits of development loud and clear, but the testimony of ordinary people who say "but this place is magical, it must not be harmed" carry little weight — it just sounds like words. People who haven't been there just don't get it. Those who propose to develop wild places should be required to spend a week immersed in them before making their decisions.
4
I'm an easterner and have never even been to Montana but my advice would be to not allow the copper mine. Look at what companies have done almost everywhere else. They promise and lie about what they will do and not do. When they don't get their way they lawyer up and kiss or kick the backsides of politicians and then they ruin your rivers and land and on paper go bust. They leave their mess in their wake they further leave the burden of trying to put things right on taxpayers and take their money and run. Don't do it. Don't go there. Unless you are happy with the idea 20 years on with simply remembering when the Smith was once prestine and unpolluted, send them packing.
7
Once again we are going to trade a pristine and sustainable watershed that provides multiple avenues of enjoyment and employment for the opportunity of a few foreign treasure seekers to extract monetary wealth at the high risk of destroying the entire enterprise for all. This is absolutely the time and the place to say, "No more!" We want our river just the way it has always been and always will be if we will just leave it alone. We want our fisheries the way they are now and have always been, thriving, teeming with sustainable life for all to enjoy. No amount of monetary weath is worth the risk of destroying this watershed and riparian habitat. When, when will we stop allowing these few carpet-bangers to come in to destroy our sustainable heritage for the paltry clinking of a few coins in the cup of short sighted greed, avarice, and u neighborliness?
9
Thank you for your article floating the Smith. So vivid are your descriptions I felt along for the ride. Montana has been my home since 2000. It is a most magical, spiritual land and MUST NOT be ravaged for profit of dangerous and destructive mining. A Canadian mining company wants to ravage the acreage by Emigrant Peak for gold, along the Yellowstone River in Paradise Valley...Yellowstone Park is literally down the highway! Several conservation groups are vying to halt this project in it's tracks.
Montana, as you wrote, has weathered the worst of mining disasters; we don't need/want more.
Montana, as you wrote, has weathered the worst of mining disasters; we don't need/want more.
8
Mining has no upside. Fracking even less.
6
After reading this essay, and viewing these beautiful pictures (Note to Times: More of these large-format shots, please!), I can only wonder why anyone would want to risk its ruin. Mr. Solomon has said it best: Nothing must happen to this place.
14
I live in copper country. Recreation and enjoyment of nature is a "forever" industry. Mines are temporary, and obscenely destructive to land, water, wildlife, air, everything. Our society doesn't need more copper. It needs conservation. It needs ethical consumption. No new copper mines.
33
A fine, well-balanced and informative article. I'm only perplexed by use of the word "lousy" in the first sentence. Assuming this is intended as a synonym for "teeming," but the word "lousy" has negative connotation, as in an infestation of lice.
Hemingway called Montana the "last best place" in the U.S. What happens after you've spoiled the last best place?
9
I guess I am not intuitive enough for this world, because I cannot for the life of me understand WHY we always must destroy nature. Cannot understand it and will not understand it. We as humans have no moderation. As a previous commenter said, let's recycle already what we have.
So if you want my opinion, keep your hands off of my public land. It is not for sale and I want it to be around so can enjoy its beauty, because it also has a right to exist. Who gave the right to destroy it? My peace.
So if you want my opinion, keep your hands off of my public land. It is not for sale and I want it to be around so can enjoy its beauty, because it also has a right to exist. Who gave the right to destroy it? My peace.
7
The Smith is spectacular as is most of Montana.
As a former resident and one lottery winner for the Smith in the 90’s, I would appreciate if Senator Daines (R-MT), who voted “Yea” on the TPP – Trans Pacific Partnership ((Senator Tester voted No) would be so kind as to address the following question:
If a foreign company owned, in whole or in part (like the Australian company noted in the article which owns -Tintina Resources) filed a lawsuit against the State of Montana for regulatory impact on their “lost” profits in the event of denying their right to mine, which say is estimated to be $500 Million, due to “potential” risks of mining. The risks being uncertain even with objective regulatory MT standards as noted. They won a judgment by the TPP Tribunal, which is primarily concerned with Lost Profits, in their evaluation and not the State financial condition, Environment or Citizens of Montana.
Does He feel he has fulfilled his fiduciary responsibility, given his TPP vote, and would his family pay the potential cost for the State and answer this following question posed in the Article:
“They ask why a Montanan(s) (Mr. Daines) should gamble with something so precious as the Smith.”
As a former resident and one lottery winner for the Smith in the 90’s, I would appreciate if Senator Daines (R-MT), who voted “Yea” on the TPP – Trans Pacific Partnership ((Senator Tester voted No) would be so kind as to address the following question:
If a foreign company owned, in whole or in part (like the Australian company noted in the article which owns -Tintina Resources) filed a lawsuit against the State of Montana for regulatory impact on their “lost” profits in the event of denying their right to mine, which say is estimated to be $500 Million, due to “potential” risks of mining. The risks being uncertain even with objective regulatory MT standards as noted. They won a judgment by the TPP Tribunal, which is primarily concerned with Lost Profits, in their evaluation and not the State financial condition, Environment or Citizens of Montana.
Does He feel he has fulfilled his fiduciary responsibility, given his TPP vote, and would his family pay the potential cost for the State and answer this following question posed in the Article:
“They ask why a Montanan(s) (Mr. Daines) should gamble with something so precious as the Smith.”
10
The previous two comments are spot on. To see failures of supposed environmental safety more recently, as in the 1980s, one need look no further than the Golden Sunlight Mine outside Whitehall, MT. This gold mine, run by a Canadian firm, apparently using the same ethos creating the tar-sand hell in N. Alberta, left all sorts of heavy metal and cyanide waste from heap leaching. They did little to nothing to remediate the area. The Republican State Legislature then passed a law absolving the mining company of responsibility. With high gold prices the mine is open again and Barrick currently operates that mine.
What is clear is that while the Federal Government, especially a near universally venal Republican legislative bloc, has increasingly failed to represent the interests of American citizens over its big-moneyed owners, a federal bureaucracy like the EPA should set a very high minimum for environmental protection with the states being able to raise the ante arbitrarily high. Additionally a system must be put into place where miners accrue reserves in escrow for remediation and calamity. Adult supervision should trump local short-sighted boosterism. Always.
What is clear is that while the Federal Government, especially a near universally venal Republican legislative bloc, has increasingly failed to represent the interests of American citizens over its big-moneyed owners, a federal bureaucracy like the EPA should set a very high minimum for environmental protection with the states being able to raise the ante arbitrarily high. Additionally a system must be put into place where miners accrue reserves in escrow for remediation and calamity. Adult supervision should trump local short-sighted boosterism. Always.
20
Our nation and the states regrettably often play "loose and fast" with our natural resources and treasures. Now it's the Smith River in Montana. At present, the Grand Canyon is also at risk from an enterprising group that envisions a massive condo and hotel development near the confluence of the Little Colorado and Colorado Rivers which flow below the Canyon. If we're not vigilant, they may one day all be gone forever. Arguments are often advanced that development will somehow enhance them--by creating jobs, needed amenities or other untapped "opportunities." Growth is not necessarily a bad thing and jobs may be sorely needed. But one need only float down one of these magnificent rivers or stand above them in awe of what nature has given us to appreciate how fortunate we are to have them. Our representatives in government should act in the best interests of all the people--not just the often short-sighted entrepreneurs who take but seldom give back. And oh yes. Don't just complain. Write to your political leaders and tell them where you stand on these vital issues.
14
What the heck we are fracking the country's ground water supply for natural gas and polluting the environment mining for shale oil in the Dakotas what is one more assault on our environment.
2
Silly article.
We already know the answer to the question from centuries of experience.
The answer to the question is no, Montana's Smith River is doomed.
Thanks to the U.S. Supreme Court, in the U.S., corporations are "persons" with all of the rights of citizenship, but with none of the responsibilities.
And thanks to the 1872 Mining Law, foreign corporations can extract minerals from U.S. public lands and pay almost nothing to do so.
We already know the answer to the question from centuries of experience.
The answer to the question is no, Montana's Smith River is doomed.
Thanks to the U.S. Supreme Court, in the U.S., corporations are "persons" with all of the rights of citizenship, but with none of the responsibilities.
And thanks to the 1872 Mining Law, foreign corporations can extract minerals from U.S. public lands and pay almost nothing to do so.
14
In the end, the passionate few that care about these places will be drowned out by the money, and the many that just don't care.
3
Interesting that Montana is worried about a mine but not the ranches that drain the river almost dry in late summer. How good can that be for aquatic life? Its also worth noting that the brown and rainbow trout mentioned are introduced species. It seems the river has already been significantly degraded.
1
So, what? Go ahead and pollute it with acid mine waste?
It's an interesting article on mining for copper and precious metals which is also being played out in NE Minnesota. Most people who live in the area are for the mine but all have the same caveat, "as long as it can be done without harming the environment". Sadly, no one can really know the end result and how do you stop once mining is started?
5
Interesting that mining companies seem to pick the most environmentally-spectacular areas to despoil.
The 1872 Mining Act needs to be rescinded, making such environmenal travesties far more difficult. For mining companies, all that matters is profits and shareholder interests. They will lie their way through any objections, get what they want, extract the resources and then leave the mess for the government and US taxpayers to clean up...or not...
The 1872 Mining Act needs to be rescinded, making such environmenal travesties far more difficult. For mining companies, all that matters is profits and shareholder interests. They will lie their way through any objections, get what they want, extract the resources and then leave the mess for the government and US taxpayers to clean up...or not...
8
This project will destroy the river. The fines for violating environmental regulations are just a cost of doing business for these companies. The public will be given a chance to voice their opinions. The majority will protest the project. Then it will be approved. As the beautiful Smith is being destroyed republicans will decry intrusive government regulations. Another deeply spiritual and wild part of America will be ruined. My country 'tis of thee. Yeah right.
34
Excellent story about the town of White Sulphur Spring which supposedly would benefit from the mine:
http://watch.montanapbs.org/video/2365497929/
http://watch.montanapbs.org/video/2365497929/
3
This is how the mining companies get in. They spend a few years wooing local community. Then they mine. And they leave huge tailing pools and other byproducts everywhere. We're told the companies are liable for clean up and also maintaining waste byproduct. Then the companies go out of business and there is no existing or traceable entity to undertake cost of clean up and it doesn't happen. Look at a state like Colorado with long history of mining. No matter how deep into wilderness you go, there are abandoned mines and tailing pools, and sometimes fires in mineshafts, sometimes shafts no one knew were there. Ruined. The mine will come, bring some years of employment for a few, and then leave with a giant environmental mess before. Don't do it White Sulphur Spring!
1
If a mine is to be approved, the mining company should be made to put up a substantial cash deposit to cover the potential cost of any cleanup. Otherwise, shell companies strip the profit and leave taxpayers with the costs.
If the mine is so profitable and environmentally neutral, then the mining company should not object. If the cost of the cash deposit is too much (in these days of low interest rates), then the mine is obviously not worth it.
If the mine is so profitable and environmentally neutral, then the mining company should not object. If the cost of the cash deposit is too much (in these days of low interest rates), then the mine is obviously not worth it.
15
I would agree but there is a problem. What a natural resource extraction company of any kind thinks is an adequate cash deposit for cleanup or restoration has always been less than the actual cost of cleanup or restoration. "Economists", those purveyors of so called expertise and money, have never yet figured out the dollar value of clean air, clean water, or any other natural resource even as simple as a beautiful view. Conservatives have the same problem.
Nothing cleanses a landscape like a copper smelter. That trip down the Smith will be all the more picturesque with the vegetation removed and the soil and rocks revealed in all their glory. CCA is a term for a wood preservative that repels anything that lives. The letters stand for chromated-copper-arsenate.
18
" In Alaska, a company wants to remove a portion of the salmon-rich Chuitna River and replace it with the state’s largest strip mine for coal, then rebuild the river habitat when mining is completed." Say what?
37
I wonder whether one can have both: responsible 'clean' mining and an untouched and unspoiled (Smith) river? The best of two worlds. It sound like a big illusion. In the end, the river is more important. We need to preserve the Earth (says who? the Pope - says common sense).
6
Just like clean coal. And we know the last governor of Montana was the Clean Coal Cowboy, a democrat, with a VETO branding iron. I hope this NY Times article provides a larger spotlight on this proposed mine. But like most protests the big money politics will get their mine. I have been on the ground at several of the big hard rock mining sites in Montana. The miners idea of topsoil is everything above the bedrock.
Then there's Missoula, MT water system, The Carlyle Group, a Canadian group, Public Service Commission, eminent domain suit by the city of Missoula.....
Then there's Missoula, MT water system, The Carlyle Group, a Canadian group, Public Service Commission, eminent domain suit by the city of Missoula.....
Allowing this mine to go forward will be a crime against nature. We do not need any new copper mines, there are plenty operating in Arizona and other places supplying us with adequate copper supplies.
Places like the Smith river are slowly but surely shrinking, but mining company executives see only dollar signs, and conservative politicians want to be able to claim 'new jobs'.
Places like the Smith river are slowly but surely shrinking, but mining company executives see only dollar signs, and conservative politicians want to be able to claim 'new jobs'.
18
My family has vacationed, winter and summer, in Montana for decades. Montana's value lies in the fact that it is a beautiful and wild place, not in the minerals below its surface. History shows that the value of the extracted minerals goes to the owners while the cost of cleaning up environmental destruction goes to the taxpayers, both state and federal. The only way to ensure that nothing happens to this magnificent river is to not mine copper next to it.
We have a similar debate going on in Minnesota where a company wants to mine copper adjacent to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, a spectacular wilderness area where you can still drink right from the lakes.
We have a similar debate going on in Minnesota where a company wants to mine copper adjacent to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, a spectacular wilderness area where you can still drink right from the lakes.
29
How much more environmental devastation will be wrought in the name of economic development? Is it beyond our imagination and ingenuity to find other means of job creation? Must we destroy a pristine wilderness area to create 200 jobs? It borders on criminal. It borders on insane.
45
It doesn't border on insane. It IS insane.
1
If it is true that the definition of insanity is, "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result", then there is no border. It is insanity.
The motivation can only be greed. I believe that our species is beyond the point of no return, that we have damaged the planet beyond repair and that we have ensured our own extinction. That's the price we pay for being a parasite instead of a symbiotic partner.
30
People often talk of humans being a virus or bacteria.
You are right to call us parasitic.
We use until the host can't help us anymore....Unfortunately Mother earth has it's limits.
You are right to call us parasitic.
We use until the host can't help us anymore....Unfortunately Mother earth has it's limits.
1
Montana guides and outfitters can be a pretty business-like bunch but when they talk about the Smith, their voices lower reverentially and their eyes seem to glaze over just a bit. I've fished Montana the last six years but haven't yet gotten to the Smith - I hope it's still there when I'm ready. My son is a guide in Montana who's afraid that when habitat is compromised in any way, there won't be enough people around who remember it the way it was to fight for its protection. There shouldn't even be a question about protecting the Smith.
6
Can the river survive? This is the kind of question a lack of regulation and ignorance about ecosystems and the natural world result in. Did the Hudson River survive heavy metal and PCB contamination? Has the Gulf survived the assaults of BP and thousands of abandoned wells? Has "coal country" survived strip and mountain top removal mining? Has the Niger Delta survived Big Oil? Well you can still find this places on a map but they are ghosts of what they once were, the water isn't drinkable, the fish are contaminated, the ecosystem has lost many of it's components and consequently it's productivity....so yeah they survived as a brain dead person who was thrown through the windshield of a car and lives on machines survives.
27
Why would you risk this?
7
How perfectly NYT, an article that exalts the leisure uses of metropolitan people over the dirty, mean work that resourceful people need to do to make tangible things that the world uses. Mining and extraction should be put to other parts of the world, and our country should be a park, to serve flyfishermen, campers, and other idle uses. And everyone should have a white-collar job. If it were just that, it would be tolerable self-serving, but the fake alarm about preserving an inviolable, fragile ecosystem is nonsense (go check out a disused 19th century metal mine and see how bad it really is). Notably, the earth has been neutralizing these sites for eons, without fundraising dramas about imminent crises. I can't wait to see all the fraught, metropolitan know-it-alls opining on this fake drama.
Well, Mr. Whiteman, even people invested in mineral extraction enjoy the benefits of clean water. "We all live downstream."
5
Nonsense. The scars and damage may be less visible but they are still there, even after several decades. What is worse is the attitude that goes with nothing is off limits as long as a chosen few can make a buck at the expense of every other living thing on the planet.
4
Just stay in the city and shut up.
2
All one needs to do is take a trip to Anaconda or Butte Montana if one wishes to see what the results of mining are. While Butte was at one time considered the richest city in the US, it is a shadow of it's former self.
You can see the remains of the Anaconda operation for miles, a black pile of waste on which nothing grows.
Better we reuse all the copper already mined...
You can see the remains of the Anaconda operation for miles, a black pile of waste on which nothing grows.
Better we reuse all the copper already mined...
79
The people of Montana call Butte the armpit of the state.
The issues are fairly simple. The mine owners and operators keep saying "trust us" and year after year, they break that trust. Second, regardless of what anyone says about remediation or restoration, it is not the same. It took millenia for areas like the Smith to become one of the special places. Only man is foolish enough and has the hubris to think they could return it to its original condition if they despoil it.
112
Clear, concise and accurate. Thank you.
5