Really what it comes down to for me is that when somebody wants to have sex with another person, they shouldn't need quaaludes to do so. If you feel the need to give somebody a drug to have sex with you, something's wrong, very wrong.
20
'He spoke with casual disregard about ending a relationship with another model so he could pursue other women. “Moving on,” was his phrase'.
Not moving on. Abandonment. Feckless, pitiless, without honour - three of the hallmarks of the psychopath. Any person who, without remorse or shame or guilt, abandons casually another to his or her fate becomes less than human.
Not moving on. Abandonment. Feckless, pitiless, without honour - three of the hallmarks of the psychopath. Any person who, without remorse or shame or guilt, abandons casually another to his or her fate becomes less than human.
12
Guilty.
11
Defenders of Cosby seem to misunderstand consent. Mr. Cosby admittedly purchased quaaludes to pave the road so he could have sex with young women. He says he knew better than they did if they wanted to have sex with him. If you ply a woman or man with drinks or offer drugs or slip someone drugs and they black out, they cannot legally give consent in most states. That has extended to spouses since the early 70s. Most would assume married couples have sex but if a wife is blacked out or sleeping or says no, a husband can't assume the go ahead. Cosby likely won't face legal consequences but let's use this as a platform to discuss consent and end this blame and shame of women. We believe all men are incapable of self control and women must keep them in line or they're sluts. We need to change that message.
12
Though I have long recognized that the accounts of Mr. Cosby's many accusers are likely true, and have accepted that one of my childhood favorites is likely a predator, I still mourn the loss of the public persona of Bill Cosby. It appears that he engaged in repugnant, unforgivable behavior in his personal life, but it must be said that in his public life he did a significant thing. He showed America that black life was not monolithic, and that well-adjusted, highly educated black families existed. At the time, I remember criticism that the Huxtables were a too-perfect fantasy of black life, but that was MY life and the Cosby Show brought families like mine into the spotlight. My parents had terminal degrees and I lived a comfortable middle-class life in a functional, loving household. My cousins (and father for that matter) are lvy-league graduates, and I'm not the first, second or third physician in my family, but the 10th. I am happily married to another black physician, with two lovely boys and friends often tease us about being the "real-life Huxtables." But with Bill Cosby's downfall, again I hear the criticism: "See, that Huxtable stuff was all just nonsense after all." Well, so it turns out that Mr. Cosby did not live up to the standard of the Huxtables. But "the Huxtables" are out there, we are real, and I'm sorry that as a result of Bill Cosby's sexual proclivities we will descend back to mythical status, with the tooth fairy and the chupacabra.
16
This Times' story is filled with moral outrage over Bill Cosby's taking advantage of, and unfeelingly manipulating, women for sex, and cavalier financial machinations to hide his cheating from his wife. I appreciate its sensitivity toward women, but wonder where the media’s outrage was when Bill Clinton was discovered to be a serial sexual-harasser of women, manipulative in a workplace affair with much younger, vulnerable White House intern, and to have engaged in state-funded machinations to hide his cheating from his wife? In Clinton’s case, many argued that a person's personal life has nothing to do with their public life (not even their ability to be President, and make law, administrative appointments, and represent the country). Here, all this moralizing and condemnation focused on Cosby's manipulations, and lack of feeling for women. Why did the President get a "pass" from so many, while Cosby, essentially a powerful entertainment mogul (and the casting couch is a sad, but known, phenomenon) is pilloried for the same behavior (separate and apart from his apparent drugging activities, which are criminal and unforgivable)? Yes, it sounds like Cosby's a creep you’d keep away from your daughter. But all the outrage voiced here over Cosby's abusing his position and manipulating vulnerable women – where was it with Clinton? Do people's political loyalties make them complete hypocrites? Is it really more important that Cosby turned out not to be Dr. Huxtable?
13
I am surprised by the harsh comments directed toward Cosby's wife.
We have a presiddential candidate, Hillary Clinton, who has spent a lifetime tolerating the poor behavior of her husband. How is she different from Camille Cosby?
We have a presiddential candidate, Hillary Clinton, who has spent a lifetime tolerating the poor behavior of her husband. How is she different from Camille Cosby?
12
I'm not sure if I feel sorry Camille because she was duped by her husband or whether she knew what he was up to but turned a blind eye. He was a regular at the Playboy mansion. And he wasn't there for bible study.
13
Let's see, yeah, how is she different?...hmmm. Oh right! The woman HER husband was with CONSENTED.
An affair is not illegal . Rape is.
Drugging people in order to render them helpless so that one can do whatever one wants with them is highly illegal. To say nothing of sick as hell, more than creepy and hardly what we would hope someone who sets themselves up to be a moral guide would be doing.
The most famous of the former president's affairs was with a woman who loved him.
He had a bunch of affairs, that we know of. They were not at all a legal issue. His lying about it under oath was the issue.
An affair is not illegal . Rape is.
Drugging people in order to render them helpless so that one can do whatever one wants with them is highly illegal. To say nothing of sick as hell, more than creepy and hardly what we would hope someone who sets themselves up to be a moral guide would be doing.
The most famous of the former president's affairs was with a woman who loved him.
He had a bunch of affairs, that we know of. They were not at all a legal issue. His lying about it under oath was the issue.
22
All the questions of legality are moot. If a man engineers sex from a woman (or visa versa, for that matter) it falls outside of two persons treating each other like persons instead of things. Cosby made "its" out of women, things, and he is in the same moral class as drug dealers, child pornographers and traffickers. May he be shunned by friends and family.
19
Angus, questions of legality are hardly moot - they define a framework for differentiating between criminals and the vague, self-righteous moralizing on which your concept of "engineering" sex from someone relies, or how to treat someone like a "person" instead of a "thing". Would flowers and candy have made it all better?
4
You're chasing the wrong story. The real story is why he was never prosecuted. Many of these rapes occurred in the past 15-20 years, some more recently, when we had a clear cultural views that consent requires sobriety. So why did DAs across this country fail to prosecute? The Manhattan, LA, Detroit and Philly DAs all overlooked his crimes. Why were Cosby's lawyers so successful in turning these criminal acts into civil disputes
Cosby is a sick deviant and a danger to the public so the failure to prosecute needs immediate redress
Cosby is a sick deviant and a danger to the public so the failure to prosecute needs immediate redress
34
Is anybody actually reading the details? The publicity surrounding Cosby has been suggesting he admits druging women to have sex with them when they were rendered helpless. What he actually admits is having sex with women who consented to it undercircumstances where he and they voluntarily took drugs to enhance the sexual experience. He admits raping no one. The women failed to come forward for years. If a woman hopes to be believed and her rights vindicated if she is assaulted there is one thing she must do.....report the assault promptly. If you delay, you are unlikely to be believed....with very good reason. That's my opinion.
12
Know anyone who was ever raped? I hope you never do, it is horrible. I've know four women who were raped. And I witnessed a rape of a stranger and was able to stop it. It was many years ago, but I will never forget the horror of her helplessness. The woman never told her friends or family.
It is almost like a second rape for some when they come forward. They are not believed, they are vilified , shunned. And often their rape kits sit in warehouses for years with no one gathering evidence to try to stop their attackers. It takes a lot of guts to come forward, many find it not worth it.
It is almost like a second rape for some when they come forward. They are not believed, they are vilified , shunned. And often their rape kits sit in warehouses for years with no one gathering evidence to try to stop their attackers. It takes a lot of guts to come forward, many find it not worth it.
22
The most disturbing aspects of Cosby's behavior are his utter lack of any empathy for his victims, and his complete belief that he's done nothing wrong. These are characteristic of sociopathic behavior, and it would not surprise me to learn the police are looking into far darker incidents in Cosby's past.
40
Cosby played a good guy. He's an actor and an entertainer. His business is fantasy and glamor. It wasn't real, but people believed in him. That is what is so surprising.
6
MANY wonder why the women did not go the police. I did report assault and what follows is the response of the Chief of the NY Sex Crimes Unit:
"We have received several communications from Ms. Oxman since our meeting Wednesday. Since you are representing her, we have asked that further communications come through you. I recommended, as had the Asst.District Attorney originally assigned, that she file a disciplinary complaint against Mr. "XYZ", as the conduct she alleges would violate ethical rules. However, we have no role in this area.
Sincerely, Chief, Sex Crimes Unit
The lawyer who took me responded :
"The Chief of the Sex Crimes Unit made it clear to Ms. Oxman and me that her role had only to do with the sexual assault claim filed by Ms. Oxman. However, your office (DA) was also supposed to be investigating Ms. Oxman's claim regarding forged court documents submitted during her matrimonial action. It is my understanding that your office has not made any decision with regard to that issue and I find it very strange that your office would ignore such blatant criminal activity by a lawyer. It leaves people who know about the forgery and who are waiting to report on it with the sense that the D.A.'s office is not pursuing this matter because of the influence of the people involved."
In a nutshell, that sums it up "The DA'S Office IS NOT pursuing "this matter" because of the INFLUENCE of the people involved." Women who report such crimes are deemed "nuts or sluts".
"We have received several communications from Ms. Oxman since our meeting Wednesday. Since you are representing her, we have asked that further communications come through you. I recommended, as had the Asst.District Attorney originally assigned, that she file a disciplinary complaint against Mr. "XYZ", as the conduct she alleges would violate ethical rules. However, we have no role in this area.
Sincerely, Chief, Sex Crimes Unit
The lawyer who took me responded :
"The Chief of the Sex Crimes Unit made it clear to Ms. Oxman and me that her role had only to do with the sexual assault claim filed by Ms. Oxman. However, your office (DA) was also supposed to be investigating Ms. Oxman's claim regarding forged court documents submitted during her matrimonial action. It is my understanding that your office has not made any decision with regard to that issue and I find it very strange that your office would ignore such blatant criminal activity by a lawyer. It leaves people who know about the forgery and who are waiting to report on it with the sense that the D.A.'s office is not pursuing this matter because of the influence of the people involved."
In a nutshell, that sums it up "The DA'S Office IS NOT pursuing "this matter" because of the INFLUENCE of the people involved." Women who report such crimes are deemed "nuts or sluts".
32
Wow! I am so sorry that that happened to you
10
What stops these victimized women from making a citizen's arrest of Crosby the culprit? Hello?
4
What stops them? The same thing that stops you from doing it for them: The law. Citizens' Arrest doesn't work that way. Take a look:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/citizen-s-arrest.html
There is also a high risk of tortious liability attached to the action, so It is not something to undertake lightly. Try it sometime and report back. It should make a fascinating article.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/citizen-s-arrest.html
There is also a high risk of tortious liability attached to the action, so It is not something to undertake lightly. Try it sometime and report back. It should make a fascinating article.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
5
The Statute of Limitations. Hello?
3
So: What's to be learned from this sordid saga? I'm reviewing my dated copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III). I want to learn something from all this. More than just what I've been consuming in the best of the news reports (there aren't that many). I'm trolling for studies about serial rapists like BC. When did he get started? What was his relationship to his mom? Female relatives? Female friends? How does Cosby fit into the grand scheme of rape in America.
I can't imagine him keeping all this too himself over the years, that he wasn't boasting to someone about his conquests. I think his punishment should be (I know this is not going to happen but I speculate) something like this: I recall reading about Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis interviewing Ted Bundy when he was on death row in Florida. So, in exchange for submitting to an interview similar to Lewis-Bundy, Cosby won't serve time in jail (though he should pay massive fines that should be given victims and research institutions and foundations) and the transcripts/tapes won't be made public until after he and his wife are dead and the experts get to study them first.
I can't imagine him keeping all this too himself over the years, that he wasn't boasting to someone about his conquests. I think his punishment should be (I know this is not going to happen but I speculate) something like this: I recall reading about Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis interviewing Ted Bundy when he was on death row in Florida. So, in exchange for submitting to an interview similar to Lewis-Bundy, Cosby won't serve time in jail (though he should pay massive fines that should be given victims and research institutions and foundations) and the transcripts/tapes won't be made public until after he and his wife are dead and the experts get to study them first.
6
The most alarming trend I note in these comments is the number of people saying, with such heavy hearts, that Cosby's rape/drug history is so, so bad for the Black Community. What they mean is "You are no longer a credit to your race."
So, some white folk have officially revoked Cosby's status as "one of the good ones." Is that like the mark of Cain? "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth"
I thought we were past all this bigoted mishigas, but apparently not.
What Cosby did is his responsibility so we need not schlepp in almost 40 million other Americans who had nothing to do with it.
These last few months have truly shown that racism and bigotry is in full flower.
Still. It never went away. Just under ground.
I need a stiff drink.
http://emcphd.wordpress.com
So, some white folk have officially revoked Cosby's status as "one of the good ones." Is that like the mark of Cain? "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth"
I thought we were past all this bigoted mishigas, but apparently not.
What Cosby did is his responsibility so we need not schlepp in almost 40 million other Americans who had nothing to do with it.
These last few months have truly shown that racism and bigotry is in full flower.
Still. It never went away. Just under ground.
I need a stiff drink.
http://emcphd.wordpress.com
14
Another way of looking at it is that when a person becomes a major symbol of how WRONG a vicious stereotype is (a role Cosby embraced and made a career of, deriving vast financial, status, and evidently 'other' benefits from that role), it is a decisively counterproductive step in the wrong direction to very publicly fulfill that nasty stereotype.
3
One thing that really bothers me is trial by media where the prejudices of people play a far bigger role than actual evidence. Darren Wilson was tried twice, once by a local jury and then again by a federal investigation started by Mr. Holder. He was twice found not guilty but his life is in shambles.
While I am inclined to believe that Cosby's behavior is deplorable and he should be made to pay, I urge that the facts be investigated by a jury which is presented with all the evidence and rules of fair play apply.
And, about Quaaludes:
"In prescribed doses, Quaaludes promotes relaxation, sleepiness and sometimes a feeling of euphoria. It causes a drop in blood pressure and slows the pulse rate. These properties are the reason why it was initially thought to be a useful sedative and anxiolytic.
"In 1972, Quaaludes were one of the most prescribed sedatives in United States.
"It became a recreational drug due to its euphoric effect. Quaaludes were a popular drug of abuse during much of the 1970s, even though both the United States and Britain tightened control around their use and dispensing. "Luding out" where Quaaludes were taken with wine, became a popular college pastime."
While I have never taken Quaaludes and did not really know what it was, it does seem similar to recreational drugs which foolish people take all the time. It is not clear to me that Cosby did commit any crimes. Let him be tried. And meanwhile, please shut up!
While I am inclined to believe that Cosby's behavior is deplorable and he should be made to pay, I urge that the facts be investigated by a jury which is presented with all the evidence and rules of fair play apply.
And, about Quaaludes:
"In prescribed doses, Quaaludes promotes relaxation, sleepiness and sometimes a feeling of euphoria. It causes a drop in blood pressure and slows the pulse rate. These properties are the reason why it was initially thought to be a useful sedative and anxiolytic.
"In 1972, Quaaludes were one of the most prescribed sedatives in United States.
"It became a recreational drug due to its euphoric effect. Quaaludes were a popular drug of abuse during much of the 1970s, even though both the United States and Britain tightened control around their use and dispensing. "Luding out" where Quaaludes were taken with wine, became a popular college pastime."
While I have never taken Quaaludes and did not really know what it was, it does seem similar to recreational drugs which foolish people take all the time. It is not clear to me that Cosby did commit any crimes. Let him be tried. And meanwhile, please shut up!
8
Darren Wilson was tried, nor was he declared not guilty. A grand jury investigated his case and decided not to indict him. Likewise, the federal investigation ended in no indictment and no trial being held. He was not declared not guilty by a jury in a trial.
2
So in your mind, taking a Quaalude or any recreational drug means you consent to sex?
4
A full dose of a quaalude can render one pretty helpless.
1
I believe that starlets will have sex with powerful men if they think it will advance their career. I do not read anything in Mr. Cosby's deposition that villainizes him.
6
Hey...if a Starlet is willing to have consensual sex that is their business. If someone gives them drugs and they pass out they are not able to give consent. Get it?
32
If it's true that there exist starlets who will do that, does that exclude the possibility that there are men who will rape women?
11
When someone engages in sexual behavior with another who is legally incapable of consent, that's nonconsensual sex or rape. The location, relationship, what the woman was wearing, whether she was a virgin are not relevant. Husbands can be charged and convicted of spousal rape under those circumstances, though more challenging to prove. If a man buys a woman a drink -- or if a woman gets a man drunk -- he or she doesn't get the automatic go-ahead.
2
I feel sorry for the tens of millions of Americans who actually watched Mr. Cosby on television over the years and bought the slop.
6
You sound just as confused as all the people who apparently thought Bill Cosby was Cliff Huxtable. It was a show! There's no reason to feel sorry for anyone for watching it.
4
The narcissism, absence of feeling and compassion speak for themselves:
Psychopathy [sahy-kop-uh-thee] : "a mental disorder in which an individual manifests amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc. "
However, context is important as well. It is not unusual in the entertainment business to employ sex for its...transactional... value. Cosby feels no guilt because many of his famous friends were/are doing the same thing. It's how you get a B role in Hollywood.
Psychopathy [sahy-kop-uh-thee] : "a mental disorder in which an individual manifests amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc. "
However, context is important as well. It is not unusual in the entertainment business to employ sex for its...transactional... value. Cosby feels no guilt because many of his famous friends were/are doing the same thing. It's how you get a B role in Hollywood.
4
Yes, he took away much more than he ever brought to the table.
1
President Obama, whom I believe is a true defender of freedom, said the other day that there was no mechanism for rescinding a National medal. I sincerely hope that the President will institute such a mechanism and rescind Cosby's Medal of Freedom. Cosby clearly has a serious illness. He has nevertheless grossly violated the principles behind the Medal of Freedom, and is a disgrace to his community, to his fellow medal recipients and to the country.
18
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-presidential-medal-free...
Here's the petition you can sign asking Obama to revoke the medal.
Here's the petition you can sign asking Obama to revoke the medal.
6
A disgrace to which community, the male community, the acting community...?
2
It's a huge relief that the Times finally got to write about Bill Cosby's sexual predatory behavior (rape, actually, of women who had implicitly trusted him as a mentor) almost two weeks after the Associated Press went to court to compel the release of sealed documents and broke the story on July 6.
What Mrs. Cosby will do next within the confines of her bedroom, now that her 77-year-old husband and icon of public morality has been exposed as the paragon of marital fidelity, is her business. But, for us who saw in Dr. Huxtable a genial patriarch of a stable, well-adjusted middle-class black family, it's a terrible betrayal.
What however continues to baffle me is that, except for President Obama's passing excoriation, not a single black public figure -- Congresspersons, community leaders, entertainers, academics -- has come forward to condemn him. Their deafening silence, as the Times writers put it so bluntly, about the entertainer who “comes across as alternately annoyed, mocking, occasionally charming and sometimes boastful, often blithely describing sexual encounters in graphic detail,” makes me want to ask a politically inconvenient question: What exactly would they’ve done or said, if an equally famous White entertainer had drugged attractive black women and raped them when they’re unable to agree to consensual sex?
I won’t even venture to answer that incorrect question. (Full disclosure: I'm not Black or White, but Asian-American, so I have no dog in the fight).
What Mrs. Cosby will do next within the confines of her bedroom, now that her 77-year-old husband and icon of public morality has been exposed as the paragon of marital fidelity, is her business. But, for us who saw in Dr. Huxtable a genial patriarch of a stable, well-adjusted middle-class black family, it's a terrible betrayal.
What however continues to baffle me is that, except for President Obama's passing excoriation, not a single black public figure -- Congresspersons, community leaders, entertainers, academics -- has come forward to condemn him. Their deafening silence, as the Times writers put it so bluntly, about the entertainer who “comes across as alternately annoyed, mocking, occasionally charming and sometimes boastful, often blithely describing sexual encounters in graphic detail,” makes me want to ask a politically inconvenient question: What exactly would they’ve done or said, if an equally famous White entertainer had drugged attractive black women and raped them when they’re unable to agree to consensual sex?
I won’t even venture to answer that incorrect question. (Full disclosure: I'm not Black or White, but Asian-American, so I have no dog in the fight).
17
I hope this response gets printed.
Many black public figures have spoken out against Cosby's amorality and hypocrisy. From the poet Nikki Giovanni to the comedian Hannibal Buress who is credited for this final end to the show. It seems his behavior was a badly kept secret.
Many black public figures have spoken out against Cosby's amorality and hypocrisy. From the poet Nikki Giovanni to the comedian Hannibal Buress who is credited for this final end to the show. It seems his behavior was a badly kept secret.
13
There goes the whole group blame mentality thing again. One man of a specific ethnicity does something reprehensible and somehow it is the responsibility of all similar persons to denounce it or they tacitly approve. That is horrible.
And yes, as a human being you do have, as you so colorfully put it, "a dog in the fight." It is not a racial thing. It is a human thing.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
And yes, as a human being you do have, as you so colorfully put it, "a dog in the fight." It is not a racial thing. It is a human thing.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
17
The next question is who knew and could have done something, but turned away, because making money was waaaay more important than those women. I'd be interested to know what Marsey Carsy and Tom Werner (producers of Cosby Show) knew, for example...
12
“I think I’m a pretty decent reader of people and their emotions in these romantic sexual things, whatever you want to call them,” he said. And then he offers them drugs, incapacitating them before forcing sex.
Cosby has convinced himself that he is better at reading people than they are. And, when they don't agree with his assessment, he forces a change in the dynamic to suit his own designs.
It oddly, reminds me of his approach in moralizing to African American communities. From a rather privileged and powerful position, he touted individual responsibility with little acknowledgement of powerful systemic forces of race and class that prevent so many from acting to protect and empower themselves.
In forcing sex, Cosby systematically employed drugs, refused to acknowledge what he did to incapacitate women, rendering them incapable of responsibility for preventing the harm he did. And, he does this while assuming no individual responsibility for the harm he created.
The powerful rape the powerless all the time. And it's a common fantasy, for those powerful people to claim the powerless raped themselves. Or, at the very least that rape could not have possibly happened since they gave their consent when, in fact, most never had the ability to stop the rape in the first place.
I never bought that argument in either the personal or the political sphere.
Cosby has convinced himself that he is better at reading people than they are. And, when they don't agree with his assessment, he forces a change in the dynamic to suit his own designs.
It oddly, reminds me of his approach in moralizing to African American communities. From a rather privileged and powerful position, he touted individual responsibility with little acknowledgement of powerful systemic forces of race and class that prevent so many from acting to protect and empower themselves.
In forcing sex, Cosby systematically employed drugs, refused to acknowledge what he did to incapacitate women, rendering them incapable of responsibility for preventing the harm he did. And, he does this while assuming no individual responsibility for the harm he created.
The powerful rape the powerless all the time. And it's a common fantasy, for those powerful people to claim the powerless raped themselves. Or, at the very least that rape could not have possibly happened since they gave their consent when, in fact, most never had the ability to stop the rape in the first place.
I never bought that argument in either the personal or the political sphere.
25
Nothing in the deposition incriminates him in any way. Especially considering quaaludes were the go-to sex drug of the 70s and 80s. Leo DiCaprio's incredible scene in WOW depicted the prevalence of this drug. But what is most interesting about the deposition is the fact that Cosby is frankly admitting to having in his possession and his intentions on providing the drug to his female "friends". Certainly doesn't seem to be the behaviour of a guilty man.
6
"Nothing in the deposition incriminates him in any way."
The Los Angeles Police Department is considering whether to lay charges in relation to a 2008 incident in which the complainant alleges that he spiked her drink. You can bet that the police are taking into account his admission about Quaaludes and the allegations of other women that drugs were part of a modus operandi.
The Los Angeles Police Department is considering whether to lay charges in relation to a 2008 incident in which the complainant alleges that he spiked her drink. You can bet that the police are taking into account his admission about Quaaludes and the allegations of other women that drugs were part of a modus operandi.
11
" Police Department is considering whether to lay charges in relation to a 2008 incident in which the complainant alleges that he spiked her drink"
And you regard this "considering" as amounting to conviction?
Whatever happened to the constitution?
If every time a police department "considers" something, someone were to go to jail, I suspect that the majority of the US population would be in prison.
Maybe Cosby is guilty. If so let him be punished. But let the punishment come AFTER a trial and not before.
And you regard this "considering" as amounting to conviction?
Whatever happened to the constitution?
If every time a police department "considers" something, someone were to go to jail, I suspect that the majority of the US population would be in prison.
Maybe Cosby is guilty. If so let him be punished. But let the punishment come AFTER a trial and not before.
3
Center above the fold front page? Really NYT? I felt as if this was more sensational than enlightening. Has the Times ever gone to such lengths to do this to other high profile celebs, politicians, athlete... people in power and position...? Why this warrants such prominence in the paper of record is a head-scratcher. Perhaps if your exclusive included an interview with the Cosbys or if civil or criminal charges had been filed, I could understand. I feel for everyone involved in this matter. It also feels as if he's being made the example, the poster child for this issue, when there are men who have and continue to do far worse crimes against women.
8
Yep, just another nothing burger. Not a shred of evidence. Obviously a right wing conspiracy.
2
Sex, drugs and deception." Yup, that's pretty much any bar scene I've been to. Who's kidding whom here? What a freaking moralist witch hunt this is...truly, each instance has its own facts, but the NY Times has gone overboard with this villainy.
Calm down, everyone. Not everyone things you're a serial rapist, Bill.
Calm down, everyone. Not everyone things you're a serial rapist, Bill.
6
Hollywood fame fortune and sex- I wonder if there will be a movie made out of this..? Charlie Sheen had a point when he said he didn't pay $10,000 call girls for sex- he paid them to leave.. Hindsight being 20/20, it would have been wiser for Bill to follow the Charlie Sheen model.
3
Almost as appalling as Cosby’s obvious history of drugging and raping young women is his temerity in lecturing young Black men on how they should live their lives. What an incredible hypocrite…he was doing much worse and should have been in prison himself.
He has really set a great example – hey guys, make a lot of money and become famous and you can drug and rape with impunity.
He has really set a great example – hey guys, make a lot of money and become famous and you can drug and rape with impunity.
17
I find it quite telling that it took this long for the New York Times to finally publish anything exposing Bill Cosby's behavior and offenses toward all these women that have spoken up against him. He is obviously a very powerful man. It's upsetting that all these women have not been given the spotlight they deserve as well but instead have had to deal with being treated they were all liars. What does it take to admit something is going on here with this man and to what extent will we allow this to go unpunished?
14
The amount of hysterical male-bashing, especially among male posters here is frankly insane.
What sexual violations that Bill Cosby alleged did (allegedly, since none of the allegations have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law) is something that the overwhelming majority of men would never dream of or act upon.
So, folks how about toning down the self-recriminations, the politically correct posturing and general hysteria and focus on other more mportant items.
Items such as what motivated Andrea Constand to blatantly exploit thirteen other women to get a payday from Bill Cosby or the other elephant in the room question is why with so many alleged victims was not one criminal charges leveled against Bill Cosby.
These are the questions we should be focused on, because not only does this case feeds the impression of a criminal justice system that continues to be broken, but it also challenges the assumption that when a woman is sexually violated by a male partner that she can always rely on support from fellow female victims.
What sexual violations that Bill Cosby alleged did (allegedly, since none of the allegations have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law) is something that the overwhelming majority of men would never dream of or act upon.
So, folks how about toning down the self-recriminations, the politically correct posturing and general hysteria and focus on other more mportant items.
Items such as what motivated Andrea Constand to blatantly exploit thirteen other women to get a payday from Bill Cosby or the other elephant in the room question is why with so many alleged victims was not one criminal charges leveled against Bill Cosby.
These are the questions we should be focused on, because not only does this case feeds the impression of a criminal justice system that continues to be broken, but it also challenges the assumption that when a woman is sexually violated by a male partner that she can always rely on support from fellow female victims.
3
A somewhat different thought, a parallel if you will.
As many commenters have appropriately expressed, and as one wrote, "This is how sexual predators operate -- they convince themselves that their victim has given consent." It reminds me of the U.S. invading Iraq with President Bush seriously believing we would be welcomed.
As many commenters have appropriately expressed, and as one wrote, "This is how sexual predators operate -- they convince themselves that their victim has given consent." It reminds me of the U.S. invading Iraq with President Bush seriously believing we would be welcomed.
15
Never mind his hubris. He's a sexual predator par excellence.
14
It's broadly agreed that Cosby used his situation to take advantage of women. The article also mentioned Cosby's concern that Ms. Constand's mother might have a bad opinion of him. This aspect didn't get as wide a hearing in the comments. Not one of the women is an island. Cosby's disrespect of each woman is also a disrespect of the people that value her, including their parents and siblings, future mates and children.
11
Art is not more important than how you treat people.
The real artist treats people with respect. That comes first. What you paint, how you sing, if you make people laugh, blah blah blah...
How did you treat the powerless?
Did you take advantage?
Are you a creep?
Behavior comes first; that's the real legacy.
The real artist treats people with respect. That comes first. What you paint, how you sing, if you make people laugh, blah blah blah...
How did you treat the powerless?
Did you take advantage?
Are you a creep?
Behavior comes first; that's the real legacy.
12
Thanks for educating me. I'll make sure that I never look at another Caravaggio. Or Picasso. Or... too long a list.
4
I grew up listening to "Why Is There Air" and thought Bill Cosby was a comic genius. His ability to make people of all ages and races laugh without using foul language was a real treat!
After reading and hearing about how he used his prestige to lure women, I find it positively sickening! Put him in jail with all the other men out there that sexually assault women!
After reading and hearing about how he used his prestige to lure women, I find it positively sickening! Put him in jail with all the other men out there that sexually assault women!
16
Max Factor heir Andrew Luster is doing fifty years in prison for doing the same kind of thing Cosby has done. Only he was dumb enough to film his crimes. This has nothing to do with normal, healthy male/female relationships, including one night stands or casual hookups. The difference is the question of consent. Both sides have to give it, or it's rape, straight up. The desire to to have sex with a drugged, unconscious or semi conscious person betrays a sexual dysfunction that borders on necrophilia. Cosby needs to be locked up and see a good psychiatrist...in that order.
25
I say it is poor analysis to lump entire institutions -- made up of many, many good people who have done much to make our world a better place -- into a single, judgmental category such as the one you espouse. It's just poor thinking. I respect your opinion but recommend you reign in such facile pronouncements before you speak. God bless you and enjoy the rest of your day!
1
If Cosby values his professional legacy, and wishes to NOT let this one-sided story be it, in my opinion he should do the following, since clearly confidentiality agreements have been waived:
Using a smart, relentless attorney, in Federal court (not State), immediately bring CROSS COMPLAINTS FOR DEFAMATION against all of these accusers who have filed. He is safe from Criminal Court, and Civil Court standards are much broader. Then let filmed depositions begin. Cosby was sincere and honest ten years ago. Let's see these women maintain this standard. He is still teaching us about real life, in a vastly more sophisticated arena. The jury (us) should still be sitting. As outcome, no monetary settlements, only mutual cancellations of the cases.
Using a smart, relentless attorney, in Federal court (not State), immediately bring CROSS COMPLAINTS FOR DEFAMATION against all of these accusers who have filed. He is safe from Criminal Court, and Civil Court standards are much broader. Then let filmed depositions begin. Cosby was sincere and honest ten years ago. Let's see these women maintain this standard. He is still teaching us about real life, in a vastly more sophisticated arena. The jury (us) should still be sitting. As outcome, no monetary settlements, only mutual cancellations of the cases.
2
Wow. You should join O'Connor's firm. Cosby had five lawyers at his deposition, and couldn't repress the outstanding Ms. Troiani, who made me proud to be a plaintiff's lawyer.
15
He was sincere and honest?! Were you inside his head?
7
He already defamed himself by admitting he drugged women before sex. Case closed.
10
Bill Cosby was a comedian and someone who led millions to believe that he was moral, ethical and a solid role model for many - not because of the role he played on television, but because of the conviction and passion of what and how he spoke on many tours, guest lectures and guest speaking engagements. But's that's all he was. So when I read that many commenters think his story is a great American tragedy, I am perplexed. He didn't receive the Nobel Prize or discover the cure for cancer. He was just a comedian! And now he's been found out as to who he really is - a pathetic lying, cheating, serial rapist who preyed on young naive women and has the audacity to claim that he did nothing wrong.
The real tragedy here is the many women who were raped and weren't believed when they told of their experiences. ANYTIME a woman is raped is a tragedy. What compounds that rape is being called a liar when attempting to report it.
The real tragedy here is the many women who were raped and weren't believed when they told of their experiences. ANYTIME a woman is raped is a tragedy. What compounds that rape is being called a liar when attempting to report it.
32
I'm shocked and disgusted by the men who are defending Cosby. Have any of you stopped to consider if this happened to you? If you had a friend, a boss, a mentor who happened to be gay and you trusted them and they drugged and raped you while you were semi or unconscious? How angry would you be if people said you must have asked for it because you had a drink or dinner with him? How angry would you be if people said you must have wanted it because you sought advice for your career from someone you thought you could trust?
Empathy is putting yourself in another's position. Sadly, many of you are putting yourself in the position of Cosby and not his victims.
Bill Cosby feigned compassion for these women, gained their trust, drugged them and then raped them. Period.
Empathy is putting yourself in another's position. Sadly, many of you are putting yourself in the position of Cosby and not his victims.
Bill Cosby feigned compassion for these women, gained their trust, drugged them and then raped them. Period.
47
Indeed. But what does it say about a man who can't empathize with those women, and can empathize with the rapist? Would you want to be alone with them? Not I.
1
If we did not make idols, we would not be so disillusioned, when it turned out they had clay feet, or worse.
Celebrity is merely a commodity (with, possibly, a few rare exceptions such as Pete Seeger or a President.) People have no one to blame but themselves for the results, when they choose to give others a pass. We live in a celebrity culture, so movie stars and Wall Street bankers are just not ordinarily held accountable for their actions. If you don't like one category getting a pass e.g. bankers, you had better not condone another category getting a pass e.g. movie stars.
Celebrity is merely a commodity (with, possibly, a few rare exceptions such as Pete Seeger or a President.) People have no one to blame but themselves for the results, when they choose to give others a pass. We live in a celebrity culture, so movie stars and Wall Street bankers are just not ordinarily held accountable for their actions. If you don't like one category getting a pass e.g. bankers, you had better not condone another category getting a pass e.g. movie stars.
8
Wow. His own words present the genuine Bill Cosby--a serial sexual predator and sociopath. Put a fork in this guy: he's done.
28
Does Cosby's supposedly despicable behavior (the writers' disgust drips from every paragraph) diverge very much from any other normal man's? I mean aside from the loathsome trick of drugging someone. Of course that is awful. But the article seems to insinuate that for a man to use his fame to have success with women is if not criminal then certainly morally bankrupt.
But I submit: Why do men long for and reach for fame? To impress everyone -- especially women.
I submit: Why do men long for and reach for wealth? To help others around him, host everyone, impress people, and impress ... women!
Why do people, as described here, show an interest in other people's sick relatives? For some purpose -- to be polite, to further one's career, perhaps because one cares but often even if one does not so as to be helpful or seem to care or to ... impress the woman!
It always comes back to trying to impress and win over women. They even denounce (in so many words) for uses "financial trickery" to hide is philandering, as if a guy is required to come home every evening and wreck his home with the details of his latest conquest.
I find the article as obnoxious in its way as its subject, but from the other direction: prissy, judgmental, unworldly, puritanical.
But I submit: Why do men long for and reach for fame? To impress everyone -- especially women.
I submit: Why do men long for and reach for wealth? To help others around him, host everyone, impress people, and impress ... women!
Why do people, as described here, show an interest in other people's sick relatives? For some purpose -- to be polite, to further one's career, perhaps because one cares but often even if one does not so as to be helpful or seem to care or to ... impress the woman!
It always comes back to trying to impress and win over women. They even denounce (in so many words) for uses "financial trickery" to hide is philandering, as if a guy is required to come home every evening and wreck his home with the details of his latest conquest.
I find the article as obnoxious in its way as its subject, but from the other direction: prissy, judgmental, unworldly, puritanical.
4
So that's what ALL men do, huh?
15
Mark, the world is full of men who have married one woman and then have been faithful to her. If you need to find excuses for bad behavior, Cosby's or your own, you need to look harder, because this isn't one.
5
The loathsome trick of drugging someone is not the only issue. After drugging them, he did not try to impress them...he raped them.
Big difference.
I understand your point about the tone of the article, but I side more with the writers. BC set himself up and a moral do-right father figure. Using that image to get women to trust him. The blatant hypocrisy, and the attempt to shut down and railroad other NYT journalists , to scare them into not reporting things he said, might well have caused the bile between the lines. In the writer's places I would have been hard pressed not to do the same
Big difference.
I understand your point about the tone of the article, but I side more with the writers. BC set himself up and a moral do-right father figure. Using that image to get women to trust him. The blatant hypocrisy, and the attempt to shut down and railroad other NYT journalists , to scare them into not reporting things he said, might well have caused the bile between the lines. In the writer's places I would have been hard pressed not to do the same
3
If Bill Cosby had been a stage hand at NBC instead of "DR HUXTABLE", none of the contact--concensual or non-concensual--he allegedly had with his female accusers would have taken place.
2
No, because he couldn't have used his position and reputation to trick them into thinking he was a kind older man and a mentor.
2
@ Laura. No, because if he had not been someone in a position of power and influence, these women would not have given him the time of day from a broken clock.
1
As a youth growing up in the 80's Mr Cosby was a moral force in my life as living proof that a color blind society could be built and that we could all get along and respect one another no matter what our differences. I'm not one to look up to movie stars but Mr Cosby was a exception. I wish god speed to the victims of his crimes, and some sort of solace to his wife, and children. I can happily say that in my life I have had the pleasure to share my life with peoples of many ethnicities in relationships of love and respect. While Mr Cosby may have been lying to us over the years, some of us made a portion of his lie into the truth. What a very American tragedy.
5
Nice comment! I'll say it's "a very American tragedy!" as you so aptly put it.
I don't know if others have made this connection, but I'll suggest it: this story on moralizing popular culture having a commercial corruption/hypocrisy behind it is precent echoes disclosures about the hidden darker side of another great American race relations hero/role model: Atticus Finch. We all knew him to be a paragon of principle transcending the corruption of his peers & milieu, who simply knew the truth & lived by it, no matter what others thought, said or did. The caption atop the cover of my paperback edition entices, "The Timeless Classsic of Growing Up and the Human Dignity That Unites Us All."
I turns out Harper Lee originally wrote a realistic portrait of a racist, but her publisher figured this idealized fantasy figure would "succeed" better, Harper Lee agreed, giving us the "Timeless Classic..." that every kid is forced to read. Maybe Mockingbird is a great book, but as Chaucer noted in "Parliament of Fouls" and "Canterbury Tales," didactic culture is a mocking, deceiving, deductive bird that entices with a sweet song, to leave us in consternation finding the joke's on us. Dante places in one of the Circles of Hell a couple seduced by chivalry-love stories. Maybe that's why certain religious traditions teaches us not to get moral instruction from such dubious sources.
I don't know if others have made this connection, but I'll suggest it: this story on moralizing popular culture having a commercial corruption/hypocrisy behind it is precent echoes disclosures about the hidden darker side of another great American race relations hero/role model: Atticus Finch. We all knew him to be a paragon of principle transcending the corruption of his peers & milieu, who simply knew the truth & lived by it, no matter what others thought, said or did. The caption atop the cover of my paperback edition entices, "The Timeless Classsic of Growing Up and the Human Dignity That Unites Us All."
I turns out Harper Lee originally wrote a realistic portrait of a racist, but her publisher figured this idealized fantasy figure would "succeed" better, Harper Lee agreed, giving us the "Timeless Classic..." that every kid is forced to read. Maybe Mockingbird is a great book, but as Chaucer noted in "Parliament of Fouls" and "Canterbury Tales," didactic culture is a mocking, deceiving, deductive bird that entices with a sweet song, to leave us in consternation finding the joke's on us. Dante places in one of the Circles of Hell a couple seduced by chivalry-love stories. Maybe that's why certain religious traditions teaches us not to get moral instruction from such dubious sources.
1
I have to wonder how many celebrities, pro-athletes, CEO's, politicians, or any other man seen as a one of power, are out there "shaking in their boots" right now...if women are now willing to come forward, and go against, the previously thought to be "wholesome" image of Bill Cosby, it's only a matter of time....
13
"The Times later learned that the transcript was already publicly available through a court reporting service."
This is an important point that the Gray Lady almost glosses over. If the deposition was not sealed, and if it is in the "public domain" somewhere, then it is available to all. The court reporting service had it, and therefore indeed it is available - and as it happens, the deposition was always available. Good work Times!! (And a black eye for Cosby's attorneys, who should have purchased its rights a priori.)
This is an important point that the Gray Lady almost glosses over. If the deposition was not sealed, and if it is in the "public domain" somewhere, then it is available to all. The court reporting service had it, and therefore indeed it is available - and as it happens, the deposition was always available. Good work Times!! (And a black eye for Cosby's attorneys, who should have purchased its rights a priori.)
9
The deposition was unsealed by a federal judge acting on the request of Associated Press. The judge wrote, in part,:
"Mr. Cosby had fashioned himself as a moral guide with pronouncements that offered “his views on, among other things, child-rearing, family life, education and crime.”
“The stark contrast between Bill Cosby, the public moralist, and Bill Cosby, the subject of serious allegations concerning improper (and perhaps criminal) conduct is a matter as to which The A.P. — and by extension the public — has a significant interest,”
"Mr. Cosby had fashioned himself as a moral guide with pronouncements that offered “his views on, among other things, child-rearing, family life, education and crime.”
“The stark contrast between Bill Cosby, the public moralist, and Bill Cosby, the subject of serious allegations concerning improper (and perhaps criminal) conduct is a matter as to which The A.P. — and by extension the public — has a significant interest,”
4
All this might not have happened if American sexual laws, attitudes, and habits were more like those of France and Scandinavia.
1
Google Dominique Strauss-Kahn sometime.
17
What's most frightening here, in practical terms, is his giving drugs to women unbeknownst to them, and not simply for the sociopathic element involved: how did Cosby know what other medications these women were on at the time, medications that could have conflicted with his drug of choice with lethal results. He could have murdered some victims, let alone raped them, and for all we know, he might have done -- the cause of their deaths being misdiagnosed. Plus, why should we believe him at all when he claims these women knew beforehand they were being given drugs when he's consistently lied to his wife, over and over again, by cheating on her for decades? It's ridiculous to assume he turned truth-teller during his deposition when his marriage vows apparently meant nothing -- his was not a one time lapse.
Finally, as far as those commenters who think these women deserved what they got because of their "greedy aspirations" and "loose behavior," shame on them: nice men in powerful positions do not take advantage of young women's dreams; instead, they protect them by turning down "opportunities" to exploit those dreams. It doesn't take a saint of a man to do that, it just takes a basically decent one. What a disgusting human being, whether he secretively slipped pills into his victims' drinks or they knowingly took them, because either way, he didn't take them -- instead, he remained in conscious control to do as he pleased with unconscious women.
Finally, as far as those commenters who think these women deserved what they got because of their "greedy aspirations" and "loose behavior," shame on them: nice men in powerful positions do not take advantage of young women's dreams; instead, they protect them by turning down "opportunities" to exploit those dreams. It doesn't take a saint of a man to do that, it just takes a basically decent one. What a disgusting human being, whether he secretively slipped pills into his victims' drinks or they knowingly took them, because either way, he didn't take them -- instead, he remained in conscious control to do as he pleased with unconscious women.
26
Whenever something like this comes out and there has been smoke from this fire for years and years, I wonder what we would have discovered about Michael Jackson, had he lived longer.
5
Wow. What arrogance. A real man wouldn't have needed drugs and alcohol, he truly IS a dirty old man, just what he feared the mom in Canada would think of him. That's what he truly thinks of himself. Of course, a real man would never cheat on his wife, either. And now that wife has to make her mind do somersaults to rationalize her husband's dirty old man criminal behavior.
I hope Obama can take away his medal.
I hope Obama can take away his medal.
17
You can sign the petition here asking Obama to remove his Medal of Honor https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-presidential-medal-free...
Yes. it should lie in a museum next to a Confederate Battle Flag.
1
Many years ago I was in a restaurant in Florida with my wife and 2-year-old daughter. In the next booth was the Coz and his wife Camille. Cosby kept making faces and doing routines at my 2 year old in an attempt to make her laugh.
Who suspected that, in reality, he may have been trying to pick her up.
Who suspected that, in reality, he may have been trying to pick her up.
11
Fortunately I don't think he liked his victims quite that young, though many a predator of this sort - one posing as fatherly protector - does, and gets away with it for decades just as Cosby has because people tend to believe the sociopaths who so often seem nice, funny, and charming on the surface, over the victims who seem so often traumatized and freaked out after being so thoroughly violated.
1
Throughout his career Mr. Cosby has consistently been able to present a montage of characters and relationships that show an amazing ability to observe and make distinctions in a very sophisticated way. So it is just a surprise and disappointment that he would behave in such a loutish and irresponsible way, and he doesn't seem to have noticed.
5
Cosby is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde character--the always moralizing public persona Cosby as a facade and front for the pathological sexual predator Cosby.
Some might say Cosby had a dissociative personality--a split personality--where the two personalities remain separate and are not integrated.
However, given Cosby's manipulative exploitation of women, his power-control predatory method of operation, his seeming need and decision to drug these women before sex, and his callous-delusional rationalizations for his "evil" behavior, the man clearly has no moral conscience at all and is a true psychopath.
Imagine how awful it was and is to have been one of his many victims! I don't think anyone as depraved as Cosby can be fixed. And although I am not generally in favor of punishment as a way to change behavior, I don't think Cosby's behavior can be changed, but the man clearly deserves to be punished for all the harm he has done.
Some might say Cosby had a dissociative personality--a split personality--where the two personalities remain separate and are not integrated.
However, given Cosby's manipulative exploitation of women, his power-control predatory method of operation, his seeming need and decision to drug these women before sex, and his callous-delusional rationalizations for his "evil" behavior, the man clearly has no moral conscience at all and is a true psychopath.
Imagine how awful it was and is to have been one of his many victims! I don't think anyone as depraved as Cosby can be fixed. And although I am not generally in favor of punishment as a way to change behavior, I don't think Cosby's behavior can be changed, but the man clearly deserves to be punished for all the harm he has done.
16
I don't think seducrion is the right word.
8
This is simply rape by use of drugs. He should go straight to jail.
22
...wow- pity, after what was an otherwise brilliant career.
1
It may be helpful to lay out some facts in the Constand case, if only because there are contributors here who belittling others for misunderstanding the facts, but who in doing so are saying things that are factually wrong.
The basic facts are easy to find because Ms. Constand's civil complaint is on the internet at http://docslide.us/entertainment-humor/complaint-andrea-constand-vs-will...
Ms. Constand says that she met Cosby in 2002 and was assaulted in January 2004. She says that she reported the assault on January 13, 2005. She did not report the assault in Pennsylvania. She went to a rural police detachment in Canada. From there, the report went to Pennsylvania and to Bruce Castor, then a D.A., who decided in February 2005 that there was insufficient evidence - in part due to the delay of a year - to lay charges. Ms. Constand filed her civil complaint in March, 2005.
Ms. Constand's civil complaint did not go to trial because it was settled. The only sworn evidence is what is contained in depositions.
I'm not a fan of The Daily Mail, but it got an interview with Mr. Castor and seems to have the most detailed story on his reasons for not prosecuting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2838171/I-wanted-arrest-Bill-Cos...
The basic facts are easy to find because Ms. Constand's civil complaint is on the internet at http://docslide.us/entertainment-humor/complaint-andrea-constand-vs-will...
Ms. Constand says that she met Cosby in 2002 and was assaulted in January 2004. She says that she reported the assault on January 13, 2005. She did not report the assault in Pennsylvania. She went to a rural police detachment in Canada. From there, the report went to Pennsylvania and to Bruce Castor, then a D.A., who decided in February 2005 that there was insufficient evidence - in part due to the delay of a year - to lay charges. Ms. Constand filed her civil complaint in March, 2005.
Ms. Constand's civil complaint did not go to trial because it was settled. The only sworn evidence is what is contained in depositions.
I'm not a fan of The Daily Mail, but it got an interview with Mr. Castor and seems to have the most detailed story on his reasons for not prosecuting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2838171/I-wanted-arrest-Bill-Cos...
2
I am shocked that a wealthy successful man sought to have sex with a lot of different women. Perhaps after his arrest and plea deal, like Polanski, Cosby should have fled to France. And Hollywood and international actors would fall over themselves trying to get into Cosby's latest project or signing letters of support for Cosby. Oh that's right. Unfortunately Cosby was never arrested or copped a plea deal. How wonderful that near the end of his life he's able to serve as a scapegoat for the sins of the world.
2
Cosby was no more a "mentor" to young women, as petophile priests are career counselors to young boys.
The audacity to betray one's trust and to take that betrayal to a darker and more sinister level. Hopefully whatever goes around will come around in Cosby's case.
The audacity to betray one's trust and to take that betrayal to a darker and more sinister level. Hopefully whatever goes around will come around in Cosby's case.
26
I don’t know what I think of this piece. Okay, Cosby is a sleazebag – famous, and married. Women should be wary of sleazebags.
But as a feminist I have an issue with some of these women claiming victimization. When I was young and single many years ago, I did a lot of silly things, including an affair with a much older married man who should have known better. I was a willing participant.
So what? I always chalked it up to live and learn. Should I be seeing a lawyer about it now?
But as a feminist I have an issue with some of these women claiming victimization. When I was young and single many years ago, I did a lot of silly things, including an affair with a much older married man who should have known better. I was a willing participant.
So what? I always chalked it up to live and learn. Should I be seeing a lawyer about it now?
4
Well said.
Drugging women to the point of incapacitation is hardly consensual, nor is it "seduction."
26
jules ~ You stated that you were a willing participant and that is the BIG difference between you and the women Cosby raped. Having an affair with a married man does not equate with what happened to these women. Sure, that older married man might have known better but you stated you were in a consensual affair. On what grounds would you even pose the question, "Should I be seeing a lawyer about it now?"
18
All the rape apologists, all the rape apologists here, it's enough to blow your mind. Oh wait, that's how we got here, a culture FULL of individuals who think serially raping and drugging women is no big deal, just being a lothario, and even the victims fault. Just mind blowing.
45
All of these horrific events are not to be minimized, but this behavior isn't limited to Cosby. High profile, powerful men in all industries seem to believe that are above the law. They redefine "rape" to suit their personal proclivities. But, please NYTs...focus on the people who are supposed to be protecting Americans. Cosby is (was) an entertainer. I can only imagine what the finger-pointers in Congress do when they punch out for the evening.
5
They "seem to believe they are above the law" because they are. Cosby will never be criminally prosecuted and good luck with the civil suits against his lawyers. The best that can happen is that he be publicly shamed for the rest of his life and that appears likely.
Just because there's no precedent for revoking his Presidential Medal of Freedom award doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen. Mr. President?
Just because there's no precedent for revoking his Presidential Medal of Freedom award doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen. Mr. President?
15
Two things that tell me consent is an issue here: he admits he did not drink with the women he victimized and that he did not take the Quaaludes. People who party with drugs and drink do so themselves; it's not partying to only give them to someone else. That's what you do when you want to incapacitate the other person. The second thing that makes me shudder--I can feel myself in the situation--is when he describes pulling a woman's hair and talking with her about relaxing. He pulls her hair back--meaning he's controlling her through pain and body position--and talking "about relaxing." I can only imagine she felt controlled and threatened.
39
You have a very good point! When we did all sorts of drugs back then we all did them, people who were not into doing so left.
6
Thank you NYT. However, you pandered a bit on the terms to describe this behavior: Molested = assaulted, Seduction = raped
20
There have been some commenters comparing this situation to Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. There were never any allegations that Ms Lewinsky was under the influence of alcohol or drugs and unable to consent. The point of this article is Mr Cosbys bad behavior, aided by using drugs. In a horrible way, this is a clear view into predatory behavior with no regret for the consequences. A couple of years ago I was listening to an interview on the radio on the topic of campus rape. The issue of heavy drinking came up. One of the responses was that a woman should not have to limit her drinking in social situations. The problem with this view is there are people out there who are ready to take advantage of vulnerability. So maybe Mr Cosby has done a service by giving us a view into his mind.
5
People need to understand the notion of proportionality.
Suppose the speed limit is 65 mph.
Ann is clocked at 66 mph, Bill is clocked at 75 mph and Karl at 95 mph. Would we treat them the SAME way saying "speeding is speeding and can cause a loss of lives"? Only if we are crazy.
A man who has sex with his wife when she is sleeping is like Ann - 66mph.
(I am assuming a normal marriage where the two love each other.)
Someone who breaks into a house and rapes the woman at knifepoint is like Karl, 95 mph. A danger to the community.
Bill Cosby falls in between, more like the 75 mph.
We need not indulge him and we should punish him. But we cannot put him in the same boat as Karl.
But pointing this difference out brings out a lot of hornets.
Suppose the speed limit is 65 mph.
Ann is clocked at 66 mph, Bill is clocked at 75 mph and Karl at 95 mph. Would we treat them the SAME way saying "speeding is speeding and can cause a loss of lives"? Only if we are crazy.
A man who has sex with his wife when she is sleeping is like Ann - 66mph.
(I am assuming a normal marriage where the two love each other.)
Someone who breaks into a house and rapes the woman at knifepoint is like Karl, 95 mph. A danger to the community.
Bill Cosby falls in between, more like the 75 mph.
We need not indulge him and we should punish him. But we cannot put him in the same boat as Karl.
But pointing this difference out brings out a lot of hornets.
3
Rape is rape. Some are more violent than others.
22
I encourage you to rethink this comment. Mr Cosby has Mr O'Connor, who was well paid to make his apologies for him.
6
George Bush said that an attack on the US was an attack on the US and proceeded to invade Iraq. Some of us are not so happy about this.
To say "rape is rape" is a way of saying, "I am unwilling to make distinctions" and ultimately it makes for a miserable world.
It is a little like a nun objecting to a Day after Pill and saying, "killing a baby is killing a baby".
I do not want to be in the same boat as Bush and that nun.
To say "rape is rape" is a way of saying, "I am unwilling to make distinctions" and ultimately it makes for a miserable world.
It is a little like a nun objecting to a Day after Pill and saying, "killing a baby is killing a baby".
I do not want to be in the same boat as Bush and that nun.
1
The man is a smug, pompous pig. His manner has always been mocking, snide, smug, self-righteous in a way that is putting down his audience without leaving marks.
He seems to have actually raped at least some of these women, and they truly had no recourse due to his method, his fame and the times. But some of the women - in particular the woman whose case is highlighted here - had a relationship with him that included intimacy. Why is beyond me, but that's another matter. She claims he finally raped her, and I believe he did, but still feel she willingly put herself in his clutches - for career help? because she sort of liked him, but wasn't sure? - for years; it's a little difficult to fully sympathize with her, whereas the women who found themselves sipping a drink with him for the first time, and then suddenly awoke with him atop them are a completely different story.
I'm glad this is coming out. His manner and tone say it all and always has.
He seems to have actually raped at least some of these women, and they truly had no recourse due to his method, his fame and the times. But some of the women - in particular the woman whose case is highlighted here - had a relationship with him that included intimacy. Why is beyond me, but that's another matter. She claims he finally raped her, and I believe he did, but still feel she willingly put herself in his clutches - for career help? because she sort of liked him, but wasn't sure? - for years; it's a little difficult to fully sympathize with her, whereas the women who found themselves sipping a drink with him for the first time, and then suddenly awoke with him atop them are a completely different story.
I'm glad this is coming out. His manner and tone say it all and always has.
14
I'm not trying to excuse Cosby. But as someone who lived through the 60s and 70s, I think there are people who are writing and reading this who don't realize that in their time, Quaaludes were passed around like candy (before they were outlawed), like a joint, a drink, or any variety of uppers or downers of the era.
From what I have read of roofies, I don't think it's quite the same thing. Although, depending on how an individual reacted to the 'ludes, it might have had the same effect.
From my reading of this, Cosby seems to be a product of those times in the 60s and 70s of living in a certain privileged, entitled milieus, in a time of 'sexual liberation' and an available cornucopia of drugs that he just never outgrew.
And, he's a sexist pig. There are millions just like him.
From what I have read of roofies, I don't think it's quite the same thing. Although, depending on how an individual reacted to the 'ludes, it might have had the same effect.
From my reading of this, Cosby seems to be a product of those times in the 60s and 70s of living in a certain privileged, entitled milieus, in a time of 'sexual liberation' and an available cornucopia of drugs that he just never outgrew.
And, he's a sexist pig. There are millions just like him.
3
I did all those drugs, was a model, went everywhere. My NOs were respected, as were those of the women I worked with. What he did was criminal, drugs, the times,fame , none of all that is enough of an excuse.
It was never the norm in all the wildness of the 60's 70's to drug and rape people.
It was never the norm in all the wildness of the 60's 70's to drug and rape people.
20
Camille Cosby should team with Dottie Sandusky and form a Sex Offender Enabler's Club. To believe either didn't know, you'd have to be delusional.
35
“Bill Cosby, in Deposition, Said Drugs and Fame Helped Him Seduce Women”
July 18, 2015 By GRAHAM BOWLEY and SYDNEY EMBER
This article is a huge slap in the face. Bill Cosby represented so many things: family man, excellent father, moral leader, and, most importantly, he was a key factor in the integration of races in television which had a lasting impact on black family stereotypes in America. Bill Cosby inspired forward thinking and positive change as a successful, black role model, and many people admired him for that. Unfortunately, most things are too good to be true.
In reality, hidden from the public, Cosby was a womanizing lowlife who tried to justify his actions through his ego and money. That goes to show that no one can be trusted. Cosby was able to hide that side of him from millions of people for years upon years. The worst part is that, now that the secret is out, he shows no regret or remorse for his actions.
Several people thought the women who stepped forward to admit the truth were lying to get attention. Cosby captured the hearts of his supporters with such conviction that they were able to dismiss those women –the victims— as greedy liars when the real liar is the man whom they had instilled their trust.
This revelation is a huge wake-up call; hopefully from now on people will understand that no matter what image is portrayed, anyone is capable of having a dark side. Ultimately, the blindfold has ripped off, and now Cosby will go down for what he did.
July 18, 2015 By GRAHAM BOWLEY and SYDNEY EMBER
This article is a huge slap in the face. Bill Cosby represented so many things: family man, excellent father, moral leader, and, most importantly, he was a key factor in the integration of races in television which had a lasting impact on black family stereotypes in America. Bill Cosby inspired forward thinking and positive change as a successful, black role model, and many people admired him for that. Unfortunately, most things are too good to be true.
In reality, hidden from the public, Cosby was a womanizing lowlife who tried to justify his actions through his ego and money. That goes to show that no one can be trusted. Cosby was able to hide that side of him from millions of people for years upon years. The worst part is that, now that the secret is out, he shows no regret or remorse for his actions.
Several people thought the women who stepped forward to admit the truth were lying to get attention. Cosby captured the hearts of his supporters with such conviction that they were able to dismiss those women –the victims— as greedy liars when the real liar is the man whom they had instilled their trust.
This revelation is a huge wake-up call; hopefully from now on people will understand that no matter what image is portrayed, anyone is capable of having a dark side. Ultimately, the blindfold has ripped off, and now Cosby will go down for what he did.
21
I don't understand why an article that I would expect to see on the cover of a tabloid on display at a supermarket checkout, is doing above the fold on the first page of The New York Times, which considers itself to be the finest daily newspaper in the world.
6
Then you obviously don´t understand who Bill Cosby was and what he represented
10
Really? Huh. Strange.
The culture of rape is not gossip, violence against women is not tabloid fodder.
The culture of rape is not gossip, violence against women is not tabloid fodder.
13
Those, whose formative years were the 1980s, watched Mr. Cosby as the model father figure. Especially those who were growing up in single parent households; something more common since the latter part of he 20th century. Those of my generation, saw something similar in Ozzie Nelson, Hugh Beaumont, Robert Young and Robert Reed as similar figures. Problems which were solved, in 30 minutes, in a comedic fashion by a father figure who could do no wrong.
For those in broken households, these figures served as surrogate fathers or families. Giving hope that outside their home, the true concept of "family" existed.
These revelations, by Mr. Cosby, and his victims, has done a great deal of damage. That, if one had Mr. Cosby as their "father" figure, they feel betrayed, hurt and angered. Again, these figures can do no wrong and are put on a pedestal. In this case, the pedestal has completely crumbled.
For a person who broke the color barrier by being a co-star in "I Spy", in the 1960s, to raiding to the top of the ratings with "The Cosby Show", these works will be forever tainted. Mr. Cosby will just be seen as criminal. Joining the likes of OJ Simpson and Pew Wee Herman.
We see here the dark side of celebrity status. That is, the celebrity let's their status get to their head and believe they are beyond the law and human decency. And, as quickly they get to the top; they can also can come crashing down.
Mr. Cosby's legacy now is being remembered as a sex criminal.
For those in broken households, these figures served as surrogate fathers or families. Giving hope that outside their home, the true concept of "family" existed.
These revelations, by Mr. Cosby, and his victims, has done a great deal of damage. That, if one had Mr. Cosby as their "father" figure, they feel betrayed, hurt and angered. Again, these figures can do no wrong and are put on a pedestal. In this case, the pedestal has completely crumbled.
For a person who broke the color barrier by being a co-star in "I Spy", in the 1960s, to raiding to the top of the ratings with "The Cosby Show", these works will be forever tainted. Mr. Cosby will just be seen as criminal. Joining the likes of OJ Simpson and Pew Wee Herman.
We see here the dark side of celebrity status. That is, the celebrity let's their status get to their head and believe they are beyond the law and human decency. And, as quickly they get to the top; they can also can come crashing down.
Mr. Cosby's legacy now is being remembered as a sex criminal.
18
Wow, I read these comments and talk about mind blowing. I am in no way coming to Mr. Cosby's defense, but I do have a question for all of you. How is it that you don't shine the same light on your elected officials, especially in light of all the corruption that is taking place?
How is it that you can respond to something that didn't happen to you personally, but your too busy to pay attention to how this corrupt bought and paid for government (Democrats as well as Republicans) on a daily basis refuse to adhere to the will of the people or make any attempt to uphold this nations Constitution?
People wonder what is happening to this nation, it is real simple, we the people have given up our authority, we have forgotten that it is We the People who are in charge. We all know this government is crooked, so why aren't there more articles addressing this instead of news that belongs in the tabloids?
How is it that you can respond to something that didn't happen to you personally, but your too busy to pay attention to how this corrupt bought and paid for government (Democrats as well as Republicans) on a daily basis refuse to adhere to the will of the people or make any attempt to uphold this nations Constitution?
People wonder what is happening to this nation, it is real simple, we the people have given up our authority, we have forgotten that it is We the People who are in charge. We all know this government is crooked, so why aren't there more articles addressing this instead of news that belongs in the tabloids?
7
I knew a lot of folks in the 70s that used ludes. A very popular drug for men and woman. Everyone without exception I knew who used it used it for sex.
They raved about it.
They raved about it.
1
Do you mean they used it to rape people who did not want to have sex with them?
That is the issue here.
I was there, yes people did it with boyfriends and girlfriends , it was not the thing to sneak it to someone and then do whatever one wanted to their nearly lifeless body. We are talking about consent, he did not have it.
That is the issue here.
I was there, yes people did it with boyfriends and girlfriends , it was not the thing to sneak it to someone and then do whatever one wanted to their nearly lifeless body. We are talking about consent, he did not have it.
6
When we did so we did to together. Both male person and female person both took whatever fun drug it was. This is different! He gave it , snuck it in drinks without consent, did not take it himself.
When both parties took quaaludes they were both out of it, neither quite capable of having sex for awhile, depending on how much wS taken of course. He wS not having fun with hot young will babes, he was using the drug to incapacitate them while he remained alert and then raped them.
When both parties took quaaludes they were both out of it, neither quite capable of having sex for awhile, depending on how much wS taken of course. He wS not having fun with hot young will babes, he was using the drug to incapacitate them while he remained alert and then raped them.
3
It's impossible to have sex while unconscious. It is rape.
1
I will say one simple thing. If Cosby ever drugged and sexually assaulted my daughter or granddaughter it would be the last time he would drug anyone. No lawyers, no depositions no buying his way out of it. I hope I make myself clear because of the 40 or so women he's attacked there are 40 or so dads. Mr Cosby your career is over, your reputation is ruined no matter what your lackeys and lawyers are telling you. I'll make this even simpler crawl back into the rathole where you grew up in Philadelphia stay there, shut up and pray that some father doesn't find you.
26
Lock him up for life - it's what he richly deserves.
17
It's not clear as to what the remedies might be if it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bill Cosby has done all that he has been alleged to have done. Most of the criminal penalties may well have long passed the statute of limitations, and civil lawsuits may face the same challenges.
What should be ever so clear is that he is no longer a man to be admired, and all of his moralizing bluster in recent years was just smoke to cover up his own illicit ways.
A good many people, particularly in the Caucasian community (white liberals?) will have to search a bit more to find that middle to upper class black man to which they can attach their collective wagons.
He does a disservice to blacks as well, becoming pretty much the stereotype of irresponsible black men, the caricature of them they have tried for decades to escape.
Time to leave the stage, Coz ... your services are no longer needed.
What should be ever so clear is that he is no longer a man to be admired, and all of his moralizing bluster in recent years was just smoke to cover up his own illicit ways.
A good many people, particularly in the Caucasian community (white liberals?) will have to search a bit more to find that middle to upper class black man to which they can attach their collective wagons.
He does a disservice to blacks as well, becoming pretty much the stereotype of irresponsible black men, the caricature of them they have tried for decades to escape.
Time to leave the stage, Coz ... your services are no longer needed.
6
Bill Cosby is a creep. A fake. Evil. And full of himself.
How his wife stands by him after all this is something I will never understand.
Here's what is so interesting -- has anyone seen an apology from Cosby (not that it would even be meaningful), has anyone seen anything from his family about what a travesty this is? They're simply keeping quiet until it "blows over."
I am very aware how hard it is to be a male in this society -- so many expectations, so many "rules" to live by. Bottom line: Is is an example to so many youngsters about how a famous person can get away with things, and never take responsibility for his actions. Do you wonder about why there is so much rape, so much drug use, so much crime?
How his wife stands by him after all this is something I will never understand.
Here's what is so interesting -- has anyone seen an apology from Cosby (not that it would even be meaningful), has anyone seen anything from his family about what a travesty this is? They're simply keeping quiet until it "blows over."
I am very aware how hard it is to be a male in this society -- so many expectations, so many "rules" to live by. Bottom line: Is is an example to so many youngsters about how a famous person can get away with things, and never take responsibility for his actions. Do you wonder about why there is so much rape, so much drug use, so much crime?
4
He's a Lothario. So what? His testimony should well be taken to heart by both pursuer and pursued in the game of love. It reads almost like the rule book for the Cavalier poets. Or will today's bluestockings take the fun out of everything?
2
Sorry to disappoint you Ed, but it's criminal to drug and rape women.
23
I sincerely hope you're joking. Qualludes, plying women with drinks, paying them to stay quiet - that and more does not equal any "game of love" that ought to be played by anyone...not least of all because "love" has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Power? Sure. Not love.
18
A "bluestocking" is an educated woman. Are educated women ruining things for you? What a shame.
I remind you moreover, that if this guy were or had been just a man to whom women were attracted and his sexual relations with them been encounters between mutually consenting adults, there'd be no story. These women would not be risking their careers and reputations had something not happened to them. He's no Lothario Ed, he's a rapist. If he hadn't had the power and influence to hush these things up, he'd long since have been in a maximum security prison doing hard time.
I remind you moreover, that if this guy were or had been just a man to whom women were attracted and his sexual relations with them been encounters between mutually consenting adults, there'd be no story. These women would not be risking their careers and reputations had something not happened to them. He's no Lothario Ed, he's a rapist. If he hadn't had the power and influence to hush these things up, he'd long since have been in a maximum security prison doing hard time.
20
The big deal to me, and it has been laughably under-reported, is that he raped, took advantage of, or whatever else anyone cares to call this at the height of his fame. Most of these happened in a time when a man of his fame could have had call-girls practically on-call. Yet he didn't do that. He elected to drug unsuspecting women for years and years. He didn't have to "move on" as he called it, he chose to.
He had the world of a celebrity at his beck and call, and he chose to be a predator instead. Write that story.
The reason he was so good at playing Cliff Huxtable is that he played him every moment of every day for decades. Fooling millions along with almost everyone he came in contact with. He was able to be a successful black comic in a white man's industry, all while also being a sexual predator. How many closet racists in Hollywood would have gladly exposed him for the predator he was if they'd known? But it never happened. Why not? Write that story.
Don't paint him as a man who had casual sex. He was a predator who operated in a prejudiced world and got away with it for decades. Tell us why.
He had the world of a celebrity at his beck and call, and he chose to be a predator instead. Write that story.
The reason he was so good at playing Cliff Huxtable is that he played him every moment of every day for decades. Fooling millions along with almost everyone he came in contact with. He was able to be a successful black comic in a white man's industry, all while also being a sexual predator. How many closet racists in Hollywood would have gladly exposed him for the predator he was if they'd known? But it never happened. Why not? Write that story.
Don't paint him as a man who had casual sex. He was a predator who operated in a prejudiced world and got away with it for decades. Tell us why.
27
What's foul is fair, and fair is foul--Shakespeare. How often was Cosby's condemnations of people on welfare touted by the Republicans! The great conservative moralist. Hopefully people will learn from this a lesson that what appears good on the outside may not be so good once you dig deeper. A good lesson for looking at our political climate here.
7
The thought of those poor women at Crosby’s betrayal must have mirrored that of Duncan’s at Macdonwald’s:
“There is no art to tell the mind’s construction in the face. He was a gentleman on whom I built an absolute trust”.
Indeed!
“There is no art to tell the mind’s construction in the face. He was a gentleman on whom I built an absolute trust”.
Indeed!
3
What is the difference between Bill Cosby and Arnold Schwarzenegger? Cosby is black and a liberal, and Arnold is white and a conservative. When Arnold's sexual assaults became public during his first run for governor, the Christian right, Fox news and talk radio all rallied to his defense and attacked the women who came forward and the LA Times for reporting it. Arnold won election, was re-elected without the incidents even being mentioned, and is now back in the movies. So much for equal justice.
4
I grieve for the death of his very considerable professional legacy -- and all at his own hands!!
2
One might wonder whether there is a presidential candidate with the same attitude as Mr. Cosby.
2
Probably more than one.
3
I am so traumatized by this. I know too many men who make deplorable choices and decisions and live a secret double life. It is hard for women to have faith in men. Most women are emotional, heartfelt, and nurturing unlike most men. Is it natural for men to be vile and careless? So what has to be done in order for them to understand and realize they need to be respectful, civilized and virtuous especially being the physically stronger sex? Would moral classes early in education for boys make a difference? Males need to be conditioned and disciplined to respect women and themselves. It is also important that they need to learn to make good, moral decisions in life and see consequences to wrong behavior. People may say this is a parent's place and not school but it takes a community to raise decent, law abiding children.
6
I don't disagree but your comments are the opposite of today's mantra -- men and women are exactly the same except for their reproductive parts.
The real scandal now is that there have not been any criminal charges filed by the D.A.
12
In response to BearBoy's comment -
I wonder if the DA's silence has been bought off like that of Cosby's wife.
I wonder if the DA's silence has been bought off like that of Cosby's wife.
4
Refer to archaic Statute of Limitations laws in every state which bar rape victims from getting Justice in the courts after a short time, therby protecting predators not victims. We need eradication of SOL for rape crimes now. We have no SOL for murder, we need none also for crime of rape.
6
When I was fourteen or so, I had Bill Cosby's comedy record, "To Russell, my Brother, Whom I Slept With." The scenario, which covered the whole of one side of the record, was an hilarious depiction (re-enactment) a night from his childhood, sharing a bed with his brother--and the terrified fear, he felt of the father coming into the room with a belt, rendered humorously of course but the terror was real. Cosby, it is apparent to me as well as many others, is a predatory narcissist. A narcissist presents a false self to the world as well as to him or herself. This false self supplants the real self, for the real self, the authentic self, is not there, or only there in fragments, to be repressed and denied for it is experienced as lacking. Terror of his father contributes to this fervent need to erect a false self, for the real self, as a boy then was frightened into submission. How to feel powerful then, when one feels helpless and vulnerable before a ruthless father, is to overcompensate with fame, money, and predatory seduction, putting woman in the same position he must have felt as a boy. None of what I am surmising excuses Cosby, for those of you who think an effort at understanding Cosby's cruelly manipulative and exploitative behavior is to let him off the hook. Of course I detest what he's done. I am gladdened that he is finally exposed for what he has done. However, he has his own tragedy: to have lost his authentic self or to have never known it in the first place.
11
If this had been a high profile actress doing the very same disgusting acts with men half her age would she be percieved as normal & that's the way it's always been done for years?
His behavior is sickening, there is nothing alright or acceptable about it.
Let's stop victim blaming! He was twice their age & married, he's the one who clearly from his own statements got drugs, pretended to have interest in these women & sexually abused them for his own pleasure. Then made every attempt to cover & conceal his own actions no matter the cost of his multiple victims.
These women were young & impressionable, and he used that fact to his advantage.
Bottom line? Who got their jollies off & who in turn was hurt? There's you're answer. No miscommunication, no that's the way it's always been done, none of this-they should have known better. It's HIS fault period. He set the stage & acted out on all of his disgusting sexual desires. This monster belongs behind bars just like every other sexual deviant.
No more excuses. What if that was your daughter/son, or yourself? Just because he has power, money & people behind him to make some of the dirty details disappear doesn't make any if it alright or normal.
His behavior is sickening, there is nothing alright or acceptable about it.
Let's stop victim blaming! He was twice their age & married, he's the one who clearly from his own statements got drugs, pretended to have interest in these women & sexually abused them for his own pleasure. Then made every attempt to cover & conceal his own actions no matter the cost of his multiple victims.
These women were young & impressionable, and he used that fact to his advantage.
Bottom line? Who got their jollies off & who in turn was hurt? There's you're answer. No miscommunication, no that's the way it's always been done, none of this-they should have known better. It's HIS fault period. He set the stage & acted out on all of his disgusting sexual desires. This monster belongs behind bars just like every other sexual deviant.
No more excuses. What if that was your daughter/son, or yourself? Just because he has power, money & people behind him to make some of the dirty details disappear doesn't make any if it alright or normal.
17
You describe deplorable behavior but perhaps not criminal behavior. The two are sometimes not the same thing. Let's focus on the latter.
Careful! Holding one of the 3/4's of humanity that is not snow-white morally, legally accountable ... isn't that racism, intolerance, lack of sensitivity, blaming the victim, xenophobic, Fascistic. Well let's figure this out! Apparently because Cosby is a successful MALE, who displayed at least enough self discipline to become a success in the entertainment business it is OK to criticize, hold him accountable for his alleged crimes. Obviously our few % media/political class nobility who have always been terrified that some real democratic majority rule would arise in the USA are again busy fracturing our society into many warring tribes. So that there will never be a coherent consensus capable of stopping their manipulations of our society for their elitist benefit.This course involves giving the 1/2 of society female tribe special privileges to slander, accuse and destroy any one they choose in exchange for votes. So pesky things like statutes of limitations for the accused must now be jettisoned. Which probably will not affect Cosby much because he's rich. But this new infinite open season on any man "right" will destroy the lives of millions just like the Inquisitions did. Just ask the half dozen men whose lives have been ruined by the admitted to be false rape accusations of radical leftish college women who were never prosecuted for false statements by political hack District Attorneys who said "we don't want to discourage women from reporting sexual assault".
1
Worried about something coming back to haunt you?
3
Sickening. Whatever good Cosby may have done over the years is not the issue.
He is a criminal. He belongs in jail. Some men are killed over selling cigarettes from the sidewalk and others walk away from multiple rapes. Justice?
He is a criminal. He belongs in jail. Some men are killed over selling cigarettes from the sidewalk and others walk away from multiple rapes. Justice?
21
He is not a criminal.
What crime? I never heard him say women took drugs without their consent, and that is the only critical act in this story. Wether or not drugs were taken with or without consent is a he said / she said issue. Men lie, but women also lie. And there are plenty of reasons for both to lie in this situation. People who believe that woman wouldn't consent to taking lures are naive. Lastly, if a single man goes to a woman's home where she gives the man a few drinks, does anyone really believe that he is incapable of consenting to sex because he is drunk?
What were people expecting from a corporate shill like Cosby? People sell out because they are greedy. What greedy people seek is the ability to fulfill their desires by obtaining the means to do that in the form of money. That's the corporate world.
5
Despicable criminality and pathology. Many around him must have known of this decades-long pathological behavior, including his wife. No one chose to intervene and stop it?
11
I am not meaning to question any legitimate claims of sexual assault, but wasn't the seventies known for what's described as a "sexual revolution" that followed the sixties of "free love" and drugs of every ilk being used in all quarters of society? Where did the term "candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker, part of the same modus operandi of every "Mad Man" looking to get laid? Isn't there a line in musical Grease that queries, "did she put up a fight" implying taking sex by force was SOP for a lot of men? And quaaludes were the party drug for what? To get laid. So let's keep the sensationalism to a minimum when digesting what's become a source of entertainment for too many in the media.
2
Nice try but sexual predators have sought out vulnerable women before the "sexual revolution". Perhaps the only thing new is that the prey now speak up more frequently.
To think that the "sexual revolution" was about libertinism shows woeful and willful ignorance.
To think that the "sexual revolution" was about libertinism shows woeful and willful ignorance.
3
Here is a point that is tangentially related to the case of Bill Cosby. Before the latter decades of the 20th century, America, and to a degree most of the world, held to a system of presumed morality that held that sexuality was not proper outside of marriage and that women should limit their partners either to their potential husbands or, at least, be discrete and restrained in such relationships. With the imposed sexual revolution of the 1960s and '70s, it was asserted that, henceforth, women would be in charge of their own sexuality and how they used it. Liberation! This resulted directly in millions of divorces as women felt free to seek richer, more fulsome relationships and professional opportunities.
The down side of this deal is that many of the protections, informal or otherwise, that had existed for women were dropped. It was sort of like, "You're on your own, babe." Great? Well, this was a great deal for men who could go forth seeking personal pleasures without facing any responsibilities or consequences (thanks, birth control).
The old rules were dropped, but what are the new ones? Bill Cosby was an operator, a player, in this transitional period. He appears to be a predator who wanted not just sex, but total control over women. We should blame him for his conduct, but we should also recognize that generational change came along leading people to believe there were no rules, when, in fact, people need rules, guidelines, to establish boundaries over behavior.
The down side of this deal is that many of the protections, informal or otherwise, that had existed for women were dropped. It was sort of like, "You're on your own, babe." Great? Well, this was a great deal for men who could go forth seeking personal pleasures without facing any responsibilities or consequences (thanks, birth control).
The old rules were dropped, but what are the new ones? Bill Cosby was an operator, a player, in this transitional period. He appears to be a predator who wanted not just sex, but total control over women. We should blame him for his conduct, but we should also recognize that generational change came along leading people to believe there were no rules, when, in fact, people need rules, guidelines, to establish boundaries over behavior.
2
If you can't show the above comment to the women in your life, then it's probably despicable. But please go ahead and show them and then report back and tell us how it went.
5
Those "protections" didn't apply to poor, non-white, or unconventional women. They were "rules" that gave men an excuse to slot women into madonna/whore roles and treat the latter as they liked. Trying to pin rape and Cosby's behavior on feminism is ignorant, to say the least.
1
My comment was, in the limited space available, intended to indicate that women's liberation turned out to be, ah, a two edged sword, as much social change turns out to have related and unintended consequences. The efforts at female empowerment and rejection of traditional ways of doing things liberated men to be at the worst without much fear of social or personal condemnation. I have had lengthy and useful conversations about this with the women in my life. I fail to see anything despicable or even negative in looking at changing social and personal circumstances and assigning carefully considered analysis to what we have experienced. This does not represent an argument, veiled or otherwise, for resisting change. What it does indicate is that men and women found themselves operating in a new, undefined landscape, one that has yet to be full appreciated.
It's too bad all these victims didn't have a better network way back to collaborate and corroborate their experiences to bring this mentally sick predator to rehab and perhaps stop this behavior in it's tracks. If anything positive comes out of this whole sordid affair it gives women the knowledge and fortitude to more easily identify the men and the situations they should avoid and hopefully report sooner .
11
There are going to be a lot of days of Cosby walking though the mansion in his robe, sweatpants, and slippers now that his performing career is over. He's been forcibly retired by society. They took that decision out of his hands. The phone has finally stopped ringing--except when his attorney calls.
Now is the time for Cosby to write his memoirs and explain how he came up with those "Noah" and "Fat Albert" routines. That would be time well spent along with some golf.
Now is the time for Cosby to write his memoirs and explain how he came up with those "Noah" and "Fat Albert" routines. That would be time well spent along with some golf.
2
In 30+ years of marriage my wife has never used the word 'yes' in a conversation with me.
4
A crucial factor is whether the women involved took the drugs knowingly and willingly. If they did not, that makes what Cosby did very wrong and criminal.
A second key question was whether the women were incapacitated or merely high from taking the drug. Again, if they were incapacitated, any sexual contact with them would have been very wrong and criminal.
However, it is possible that (at least some of) the women took the drugs voluntarily. Quaaludes ("ludes") were a very popular party drug of that era, and actually more popular with women than with men. They did make people much less inhibited and more likely to have sex just like alcohol or cocaine, but that was part of the reason that people would take them.
If Cosby was using the knowing offer of drugs as part of his means to attract women to have sex (apparently not intercourse), many people might disapprove but it would be ethically quite different and not criminal (other than the drugs laws).
One scenario it that of Cosby slipping a drug into a women's drink and taking advantage of her while unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. That would be criminal. The other scenario of using the drugs as part of the attraction while sleazy is a far different matter.
It is impossible to tell from the parts of the deposition released in the press which is the correct description, but some of what he is quoted as saying seems to indicate the second rather than the first.
A second key question was whether the women were incapacitated or merely high from taking the drug. Again, if they were incapacitated, any sexual contact with them would have been very wrong and criminal.
However, it is possible that (at least some of) the women took the drugs voluntarily. Quaaludes ("ludes") were a very popular party drug of that era, and actually more popular with women than with men. They did make people much less inhibited and more likely to have sex just like alcohol or cocaine, but that was part of the reason that people would take them.
If Cosby was using the knowing offer of drugs as part of his means to attract women to have sex (apparently not intercourse), many people might disapprove but it would be ethically quite different and not criminal (other than the drugs laws).
One scenario it that of Cosby slipping a drug into a women's drink and taking advantage of her while unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. That would be criminal. The other scenario of using the drugs as part of the attraction while sleazy is a far different matter.
It is impossible to tell from the parts of the deposition released in the press which is the correct description, but some of what he is quoted as saying seems to indicate the second rather than the first.
3
The plaintiff in the civil suit met Cosby in 2002. She and Cosby agree that he gave her pills but she alleges that he lied to her about what they were. When her lawyer asked about Quaaludes, he said that he had them in the 1970s - over 20 years before - and that they were used by him and his partners by mutual consent.
However, many of the women who have come forward say that Cosby spiked their drinks or lied about the nature of the pills he was giving them.
However, many of the women who have come forward say that Cosby spiked their drinks or lied about the nature of the pills he was giving them.
1
Many of the women have described their experiences. All you have to do is read them. Many were slipped drugs without any knowledge at all.
2
What he is saying being the operative phrase. You do know that dozens of women have said otherwise, right? Why do so many commenters keep forgetting that?
5
Dastardly criminality, completely immoral behavior. I am beyond disgusted.
10
Look for the forrest and not the tree.
Bill Cosby is now evoking anger as he evoked support and admiration earlier in his life and few see that he is only one in a very large group. Look at all the scandals involving famous, powerful and rich men especially the incidents when women have been victimized and still little changes. Even if most men are too stupid to get it why isn't every women in the world doing everything they can to educate men that it is wrong to prey on women and there is a price to pay if they do. When a politician, athlete, teacher, a powerful businessman, pop star or actor behaves badly report it. We are in the digital age and the world can be informed in minutes. Women, when your husband, boyfriend, brother, boss, father, uncle thinks aberrant behavior by someone famous is acceptable then go out of your way to correct them. Boycott misogynistic music and shun the men in your life who listen to it. Women are only able to vote because they demanded it, now is the time to demand that men's behavior changes.
Bill Cosby is now evoking anger as he evoked support and admiration earlier in his life and few see that he is only one in a very large group. Look at all the scandals involving famous, powerful and rich men especially the incidents when women have been victimized and still little changes. Even if most men are too stupid to get it why isn't every women in the world doing everything they can to educate men that it is wrong to prey on women and there is a price to pay if they do. When a politician, athlete, teacher, a powerful businessman, pop star or actor behaves badly report it. We are in the digital age and the world can be informed in minutes. Women, when your husband, boyfriend, brother, boss, father, uncle thinks aberrant behavior by someone famous is acceptable then go out of your way to correct them. Boycott misogynistic music and shun the men in your life who listen to it. Women are only able to vote because they demanded it, now is the time to demand that men's behavior changes.
14
I cannot figure out why he was never criminally charged. Is there one justice for celebrities.
2
To answer your question:
Statute of limitations expired.
And yes, there is separate justice for celebrities.
That is part of Hollywood history.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Statute of limitations expired.
And yes, there is separate justice for celebrities.
That is part of Hollywood history.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
4
I think we need Federal legislation that includes sexual abuse in with murder as having no statute of limitations. If a case was strong enough, and included multiple victims it could be brought forth regardless of the timeline. It seems people with money, fame, or merely presenting the guise of authority such as family members, teachers or religious figures should not be able to escape prosecution as easily as they do now.
13
You mean like they did in Salem?
"Bill Cosby, in Deposition, Said Drugs and Fame Helped Him Seduce Women"
Drugging women is not "seducing" them any more that knocking someone on the head and taking their money is "negotiating a financial transaction."
The concept of seduction is odious enough without it being further trivialized by headlines such as this.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Drugging women is not "seducing" them any more that knocking someone on the head and taking their money is "negotiating a financial transaction."
The concept of seduction is odious enough without it being further trivialized by headlines such as this.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
24
Cosby's Medal of Freedom is a disgrace and the President needs to set the precedent and take it away. No excuses. Bill Cosby represents evil.
10
Bill Cosby is a despicable human being.
15
I wonder what the atmosphere is like these days in the Cosby home. Quiet dinners taken in separate rooms. Long stretches of silence broken by phone conversations with his lawyers.
I'm sure he's doing all the household chores now, and hoping that one day that will be acknowledged when, or if his wife and daughters ever again look at him in his sweatpants and slippers.
I'm sure he's doing all the household chores now, and hoping that one day that will be acknowledged when, or if his wife and daughters ever again look at him in his sweatpants and slippers.
1
I am not Richard, but his girlfriend. Listen, I gotta say that as a young woman coming of age during the Sexual Revolution, I had sex with men that I regretted and felt ashamed of later. Including some married men. However, none of them were rich, famous men who offered to help me with my education. Did Cosby actually help them financially? Did they accept his financial help? Ms. Constand apparently knew Cosby for quite awhile, saw him many times, and had to have been aware of his sexual interest in her. She knew he was married. He said he did not have "intercourse" with the women he seduced. He said they knew that he was giving them drugs. Do we believe everything Cosby says? Do we believe everything the women say? Yeah, he is sleazy and not what we thought. But I don't see his "victims" as being innocent or pure either.
7
Thanks, Richard*s girlfriend, for speaking the reality that many of us know. It*s always wrong for anyone to take advantage of anyone, and it*s also wrong to seek advantage by a *friendship* with a powerful person to whom you think you can dole out a certain amount of your charms without cost.
If certain professions are almost impossible to succeed at without significant *help,* than perhaps they are not healthy goals for young women to strive for. I*m sure there are powerful gay women in Hollywood also demanding acquiescence to sexual predations in return for *mentoring.* As well, of course, as has always been, gay men preying on men.
But everything begins with a sense of personal integrity and responsibility. As someone who was once young and dumb, I*m fortunate to have made it to maturity with only a few scars, none of them deep. And I recognize now how elastic my conscience was then. This is one of those life stages everyone must go through on their own, and some of Cosby*s victims were unfortunately too willing to keep hovering around his flame. The odds are always against you getting away without singed wings.
If certain professions are almost impossible to succeed at without significant *help,* than perhaps they are not healthy goals for young women to strive for. I*m sure there are powerful gay women in Hollywood also demanding acquiescence to sexual predations in return for *mentoring.* As well, of course, as has always been, gay men preying on men.
But everything begins with a sense of personal integrity and responsibility. As someone who was once young and dumb, I*m fortunate to have made it to maturity with only a few scars, none of them deep. And I recognize now how elastic my conscience was then. This is one of those life stages everyone must go through on their own, and some of Cosby*s victims were unfortunately too willing to keep hovering around his flame. The odds are always against you getting away without singed wings.
1
Andrea Constand worked at Temple University where Bill Cosby was the most revered individual associated with the school. he presented himself as a mentor. She never agreed to anything else. And when he drugged her and abused her she went right to the police. The DA did not charge Cosby. She moved back to Canada and then sued him. Nothing you wrote above applies at all. Learn the facts.
3
I work for one of the top 10 corporations in the world. We are continually encouraged to find mentors. If you worked at temple university and had the opportunity to have Bill Cosby as a mentor, you would take it. And your bosses would be thrilled.
4
Mr. Cosby is not the only Hollywood star to do this. This was accepted behavior then. You had your chance to listen to these accusations and you ignored them. I have a hard time convicting people of something everyone did and years ago on top of that. What was accepted perverse sub-culture then is not the culture now. if you want to push this then by all means don't stop here. There are many other perpetrators of these parties and methods, why stop here? because they didn't admit it like Mr. Cosby did? For him to say anything now, with only circumstantial proof against him and the claims of these women who didn't go to the police at the time. If the police didn't believe them then ask the police why this was ignored. It's the system of Hollywood and it is culpable in the corrupt sub-culture that is Hollywood.
5
Well, the pursuit of young women (or young men, old women, etc. Anything you fancy basically) is a constitutional right in the US ("the pursuit of happiness", that rings a bell?). Using your fame, or your beauty, intelligence, humor, wealth of absence of wealth to this aim is perfectly fine too. When I read many comments here focussing on the above actions and means of Cosby, I am surprised how un-american they sound. It seems that their writer would be better in a sexually very repressive country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Using drugs? Well, here the matter becomes more complex. If the drug are legal and they are given with the knowledge and consent of the receiver, well again, there is no problem. Here the drugs were misused prescription drugs,
which is illegal, but not a very serious matter either in itself. Now of course the serious question is whether the drugs were really given with the consent of the women. In this deposition, Bill Cosby says no. He may be lying (he probably is, I believe) but it is certainly not possible to prove it from this deposition alone. A careful study and confrontation of the many alleged victims and other witnesses are needed. When this is done, and if the conclusion is that indeed Cosby gave drugs without their knowledge to these women in order to have sex, then this is rape, and he deserves to be severely punished. But please, while you may express your opinion about Cosby's guilt or innocence, remember that you're not omniscient.
Using drugs? Well, here the matter becomes more complex. If the drug are legal and they are given with the knowledge and consent of the receiver, well again, there is no problem. Here the drugs were misused prescription drugs,
which is illegal, but not a very serious matter either in itself. Now of course the serious question is whether the drugs were really given with the consent of the women. In this deposition, Bill Cosby says no. He may be lying (he probably is, I believe) but it is certainly not possible to prove it from this deposition alone. A careful study and confrontation of the many alleged victims and other witnesses are needed. When this is done, and if the conclusion is that indeed Cosby gave drugs without their knowledge to these women in order to have sex, then this is rape, and he deserves to be severely punished. But please, while you may express your opinion about Cosby's guilt or innocence, remember that you're not omniscient.
7
No, the real tragedy is that women aren't believed.
We think we live in such 'enlightened times' where women are free. But how free can women be when men are allowed to behave so badly with impunity. And then when over 40 women come forward, they still aren't believed.
Both men and women know on an unconscious level what's what. Men know they have an edge on women and can get away with bad behavior. And the vast number of women who don't report molestation/rape know this as well.
This is the tragedy.
We think we live in such 'enlightened times' where women are free. But how free can women be when men are allowed to behave so badly with impunity. And then when over 40 women come forward, they still aren't believed.
Both men and women know on an unconscious level what's what. Men know they have an edge on women and can get away with bad behavior. And the vast number of women who don't report molestation/rape know this as well.
This is the tragedy.
17
Why should liars be believed?
He is an unapologetic, calculated, narcissistic, criminal sexual predator.
The complete inverse of his public persona.
Reprehensible and disgusting.
The complete inverse of his public persona.
Reprehensible and disgusting.
28
Clues that all was not well in Cosbyworld were right there in that sitcom.
Note that many men tire of and resent their children once those children age out of the adorable stage into the struggle towards independence. In a TV family with very highly- educated and achieving parents, none of the children were portrayed as achieving equal success. They married doofuses or men of lower educational attainment, or they cut their own educations short and then married men who came with family baggage; or in the case of the only son, was a hapless clown.
And as those child-actors grew up, the show acquired new young children for Cosby to be the adorable daddy-figure for.
It*s a real problem, I think, when the pre-eminent American show about a black family shows young black men as idiots and young black women paired with mates not their own equals. The undercurrents of hostility that ran through *The Cosby Show* are instructive.
Note that many men tire of and resent their children once those children age out of the adorable stage into the struggle towards independence. In a TV family with very highly- educated and achieving parents, none of the children were portrayed as achieving equal success. They married doofuses or men of lower educational attainment, or they cut their own educations short and then married men who came with family baggage; or in the case of the only son, was a hapless clown.
And as those child-actors grew up, the show acquired new young children for Cosby to be the adorable daddy-figure for.
It*s a real problem, I think, when the pre-eminent American show about a black family shows young black men as idiots and young black women paired with mates not their own equals. The undercurrents of hostility that ran through *The Cosby Show* are instructive.
16
Difficult to say it, but we should also blame us, women. So many women who were really raped are suffering because very few women lied about rape.
A caring mother should always tell her daughter, do not come close to married man! They are not looking for friendship....
and Cosby, I hope all the women who complained would empty his pocket in court, he deserve it!
A caring mother should always tell her daughter, do not come close to married man! They are not looking for friendship....
and Cosby, I hope all the women who complained would empty his pocket in court, he deserve it!
3
Women as a group should not be blamed for what individual women do any more than men are blamed for what individual men do.
2
Note to all the people whose outrage over this is compounded because you looked at Cosby as a personal father figure in your life: get help now. If you feel personally "let down," you live in a fantasy world.
All men who rape are the issue. Not a concocted image which so many took for reality. That is a whole different issue.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
All men who rape are the issue. Not a concocted image which so many took for reality. That is a whole different issue.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
14
This is going to get worse for Cosby before it gets better and it's doubtful that he'll be able to settle all the claims. There are not only several civil suits, there is at least one complaint to the police that is within the statute of limitations. The is a large, and growing, number of women who are in a position to provide evidence of a pattern of behaviour. The big question is how much evidence there is that he lied to women about the drugs he was giving them and/or spiked beverages.
In the U.K., an on-going investigation called Operation Yewtree has resulted in the conviction of several powerful celebrities for sexual assault. One has to wonder whether Cosby, assuming that he is guilty, is just the tip of an iceberg.
In the U.K., an on-going investigation called Operation Yewtree has resulted in the conviction of several powerful celebrities for sexual assault. One has to wonder whether Cosby, assuming that he is guilty, is just the tip of an iceberg.
9
Cosby said he didn't do intercourse for his own bizarre reasoning, and had them pleasure him in other ways. My question is how does a man get oral sex from an unconscious woman? How does that work?
14
I can't know what was in Bill Cosby's head, but one tragedy of this situation is that many women would likely gladly have slept with him without drugs. Perhaps he didn't have to time, or take the time, for decent, ordinary relations with other people. However, this looks like a situation where someone not only wanted sexual contact, but wanted total control, total submission from another person. It looks to be predatory behavior not just for sex, but for absolute power over someone else.
It should be noted that Cosby used to hang out at the Playboy house of Hugh Hefner, pal around with him and appear on his syndicated television show. During that era, probably a majority of men who were not enrolled in the priesthood or attending theological school would have jumped at the chance at least to visit the sexual wonderland at the mansion established by Hefner. The Playboy fantasy seemed to be built on the idea that men could do anything they wanted with women and that there would be plenty of willing female participants in these "games". Coming out of mid-20th century repression of sexuality, it is not surprising that some men lost all moral restraint. The Church of Hefner said it was all just fine. If it feels good...
Now we see Bill Cosby condemning himself in his own words. Case closed.
It should be noted that Cosby used to hang out at the Playboy house of Hugh Hefner, pal around with him and appear on his syndicated television show. During that era, probably a majority of men who were not enrolled in the priesthood or attending theological school would have jumped at the chance at least to visit the sexual wonderland at the mansion established by Hefner. The Playboy fantasy seemed to be built on the idea that men could do anything they wanted with women and that there would be plenty of willing female participants in these "games". Coming out of mid-20th century repression of sexuality, it is not surprising that some men lost all moral restraint. The Church of Hefner said it was all just fine. If it feels good...
Now we see Bill Cosby condemning himself in his own words. Case closed.
9
Enigmatic aspect is that why women accepted money and kept quite so long.Should that be construed as compensation for consent,or involvement in immorality & crime.
3
They did not "keep quiet for so long." Many had spoken out more than a decade ago. In the Constand case there were numerous "Jane Does" who alleged similar experiences to Constand's but since the Constand case was settled and did not go to trial these "Jane Does" were not officially heard.
Moreover, Cosby's PR machine went into overtime whenever any women raised the issue and the press, seemingly, was complicit. The claims did not gain any traction in the MSM until recently.
Moreover, Cosby's PR machine went into overtime whenever any women raised the issue and the press, seemingly, was complicit. The claims did not gain any traction in the MSM until recently.
18
That should be construed as, "If I report this, my name will be dragged through the mud, like so many other women's."
10
@ Naseer,
I'm having a problem understanding your post Naseer. It seems as if you are passive aggressively trying to accuse the victims of having done something wrong.
IDK who kept quiet and for how long they did so. I do know that large amounts of money that can change a life will sometimes overwhelm a person and cause them to lose long term thinking. I'm pretty sure all of those who accepted money realized within the first year that ten times the amount would not have been enough to compensate them for what they were living with. The damage from such an assault never goes away and is always lurking ready to pounce on the person from within the mind for no apparent reason and knock them down mentally and emotionally. Its like being hit by a sniper at random times except the person knows its coming they just don't know when.
I'm having a problem understanding your post Naseer. It seems as if you are passive aggressively trying to accuse the victims of having done something wrong.
IDK who kept quiet and for how long they did so. I do know that large amounts of money that can change a life will sometimes overwhelm a person and cause them to lose long term thinking. I'm pretty sure all of those who accepted money realized within the first year that ten times the amount would not have been enough to compensate them for what they were living with. The damage from such an assault never goes away and is always lurking ready to pounce on the person from within the mind for no apparent reason and knock them down mentally and emotionally. Its like being hit by a sniper at random times except the person knows its coming they just don't know when.
4
The real travesty here is that many people knew what Cosby was and yet no one spoke up. That tells you a lot about the people around Cosby!
14
Celebrities on Cosby's level do NOT recognize general rules of behavior. They are ABOVE them and this is the actual reality.
If the facts become public, they try to find excuses. There are many examples of that on each side of political spectrum.
This actually has absolutely nothing to do with politics. It seems that being a male celebrity requires some strong sexual drive.
It is kind of sad that these things came out at this point of Mr. Cosby's life when he is most likely not physically capable to pursue too many 'liaisons'.
Does the Times have to publish them? Probabably.
If the facts become public, they try to find excuses. There are many examples of that on each side of political spectrum.
This actually has absolutely nothing to do with politics. It seems that being a male celebrity requires some strong sexual drive.
It is kind of sad that these things came out at this point of Mr. Cosby's life when he is most likely not physically capable to pursue too many 'liaisons'.
Does the Times have to publish them? Probabably.
4
"Excerpts from ...."? So now we are cherry picking inflammatory stmts taken out of context? Wow, how "We love dirty laundry".
There is another facet to this, albeit it likely unpopular. When is rape not rape? How about when the woman has full knowledge of where the road she is travelling on is likely going to end. Who was it that visited Mike Tyson's hotel room at 3am to "read poetry" and was all shocked and offended the following morning? No, this is not blaming the woman wearing the mini skirt. It has to do with the presumed expectation. A young woman is all excited about going to a fraternity party. She should have fore knowledge there will be a lot of intoxicated guys who, are..well.. intoxicated young sexually active males.
I recall from the stories of early days of Hollywood (maybe not so early) concerning wannabe actresses and the 'casting couch'. I understand some will consider this line of reason misogynistic. If you do you need to google the word. I don't distrust women, I just think they should be expected to exercise the same common sense that men are expected to exercise. If said woman didn't like the outcome of the first 'intimate' dinner, why did she return for a second one? It seems to me woman should be capable of exercising common sense and if she feels there is a risk of being cornered into a sexually exposed position, why go there? Did the woman who visited Mike Tyson at 3am do so to claim victimhood the next day? The consensus was yes.
There is another facet to this, albeit it likely unpopular. When is rape not rape? How about when the woman has full knowledge of where the road she is travelling on is likely going to end. Who was it that visited Mike Tyson's hotel room at 3am to "read poetry" and was all shocked and offended the following morning? No, this is not blaming the woman wearing the mini skirt. It has to do with the presumed expectation. A young woman is all excited about going to a fraternity party. She should have fore knowledge there will be a lot of intoxicated guys who, are..well.. intoxicated young sexually active males.
I recall from the stories of early days of Hollywood (maybe not so early) concerning wannabe actresses and the 'casting couch'. I understand some will consider this line of reason misogynistic. If you do you need to google the word. I don't distrust women, I just think they should be expected to exercise the same common sense that men are expected to exercise. If said woman didn't like the outcome of the first 'intimate' dinner, why did she return for a second one? It seems to me woman should be capable of exercising common sense and if she feels there is a risk of being cornered into a sexually exposed position, why go there? Did the woman who visited Mike Tyson at 3am do so to claim victimhood the next day? The consensus was yes.
6
By your definition, the answer to your question, "When is rape not rape?" is when the "victim" has not anticipated it but should have, like when someone gets themselves incarcerated and then cries "Foul!" when they are raped by those more powerful. Like when that happens, I guess. Clearly they should have anticipated that outcome before they smoked the weed or whatever.
5
So, W. Corey, you're saying a sensible young woman should refuse an invitation to a fraternity party because she's likely to experience unwanted sexual pressure there, or her attendance at the party would likely be viewed by the young men there as a sexual invitation, whether she wants sex or not.
Sensible young women do not have a right to expect to be sexually safe if they attend a fraternity party. Is that what you're saying?
Sensible young women do not have a right to expect to be sexually safe if they attend a fraternity party. Is that what you're saying?
5
Ellen, no that is not it. I totally understand there are victim of rape. I basically maintain women have a responsibility to not put themselves in jeopardy. A woman walking to her car has the valid expectation she will get there safely, ditto for a woman walking home. But a woman, or guy for that matter, walking home through the 'bad' neighborhood, that expectation necessarily has to drop. If said girl goes to a frat party where there are intoxicated young guys, with or without having alcoholic lubrication, goes to one of the frat brothers bedroom and the door closes...I would consider that 'informed'. The first time that woman went to the intimate dinner with Cos, there was, likely no expectation of it being 'intimate'. The second time, there was an reasonable expectation of intimacy. I give her enough credit for being able to assess the situation. I suspect, she actually did accurately assess the situation.
How is this different from any movie star? Or rock star? They may not use drugs as Cosby did, but they approach it in the same way. Athletes, same thing. I recall Magic Johnson said he'd been with over 800 women. I would also imagine some politicians, the same (but to a lessor degree because they are more gross than appealing).
5
It is different PRECISELY because he used the drugs to accomplish his goal. If an individual is desired by others, it is his/her choice to decide how many consensual liaisons he/she pursues.
6
Can I raise a deeper point?
His description of how he behaved in the 60’s-70’s is so cavalier because that was the order of the day. Such things as men drugging women for sex were well known since the 20’s.
It was the same time period in which Roman Polanski stalked then eventually drugged and raped a 13 year old girl and only the LA courts seemed to think it wrong. Her own mother set her up to have this happen. Women and children were being abused sexually and otherwise and it was seen as a “normal” aspect of being human in places where “sophistication” was the thing people liked to pretend to. It was common to verbally pass on knowledge and tricks used. It was considered your own fault if you got drugged! Victims were admonished “You should have known better.” or “Why were you there if you didn’t want that to happen?” were the common reactions of “normal” people who regarded themselves as above this sort of thing. And the perps rightly felt free to perpetrate because of this ethos.
You may wonder why decades old cases of child abuse come up later on. Why any of this sort of crime may come up so much later. At least one part of it is the fact of how our public culture looked at, and in some places probably still does, the use of power and trickery to abuse people who were trusting for whatever reason.
He is undoubtedly a horrible person, but he is not all that unusual for the times he came up in. It seems even Hef was doing it.
His description of how he behaved in the 60’s-70’s is so cavalier because that was the order of the day. Such things as men drugging women for sex were well known since the 20’s.
It was the same time period in which Roman Polanski stalked then eventually drugged and raped a 13 year old girl and only the LA courts seemed to think it wrong. Her own mother set her up to have this happen. Women and children were being abused sexually and otherwise and it was seen as a “normal” aspect of being human in places where “sophistication” was the thing people liked to pretend to. It was common to verbally pass on knowledge and tricks used. It was considered your own fault if you got drugged! Victims were admonished “You should have known better.” or “Why were you there if you didn’t want that to happen?” were the common reactions of “normal” people who regarded themselves as above this sort of thing. And the perps rightly felt free to perpetrate because of this ethos.
You may wonder why decades old cases of child abuse come up later on. Why any of this sort of crime may come up so much later. At least one part of it is the fact of how our public culture looked at, and in some places probably still does, the use of power and trickery to abuse people who were trusting for whatever reason.
He is undoubtedly a horrible person, but he is not all that unusual for the times he came up in. It seems even Hef was doing it.
6
I lived through the sixties, and no, it was not "normal" then to drug and rape people.
13
In reply to myself.
I say it was considered your own fault because it was so well known and openly talked about in society at large that being naive enough to get caught up was seen as fair game and your own fault.
I say it was considered your own fault because it was so well known and openly talked about in society at large that being naive enough to get caught up was seen as fair game and your own fault.
Sadly, some commenters cling to the Cosby-style notion that "reading" nonverbal cues is somehow sufficient to obtain consent for sex. And that asking for explicit verbal consent would somehow ruin the romantic moment.
For me, the reverse has been true. Nothing hotter than asking first.
Besides, there's the matter of birth control to discuss. Condoms sometimes fail -- are both partners willing to accept that risk, or is backup birth control in place? Does someone have herpes? Other possible exposure to STD's? Responsible, caring people talk about these things before having sex. I wouldn't want to go to bed with any other kind.
Of course, Hollywood never shows couples checking on birth control before diving into bed. Long past time for movie sex to grow up.
For me, the reverse has been true. Nothing hotter than asking first.
Besides, there's the matter of birth control to discuss. Condoms sometimes fail -- are both partners willing to accept that risk, or is backup birth control in place? Does someone have herpes? Other possible exposure to STD's? Responsible, caring people talk about these things before having sex. I wouldn't want to go to bed with any other kind.
Of course, Hollywood never shows couples checking on birth control before diving into bed. Long past time for movie sex to grow up.
14
That was one of the things at the time and still today people spoke of knowingly. It was an open secret that this sort of insistence would work at confusing a naive person. Not unlike how other sexual perverts like to claim the involuntary sexual response of the body means you really want it.
1
Many, many people took drugs from other people, without any expectation of unwanted sex, rape.
We did a lot of drugs back then. We shared them. We lay around high as kites, it was fun. Had anyone forced themselves on us sexually it would have been called rape, no matter how stoned we all were.
This notion that to be alone with a man ,or to drink or to take drugs in a man's company means a woman is willing to be molested is ridiculous . Or even that she absolutely wants to have sex with anyone.
I worked in the world of fashion and film, saw countless beautiful young women do all those things and not one to my knowledge was molested or raped. Most men only wanted, and even today, with out drugs all over the place, only want, women who wanted them back. Young actress are always asked to come see powerful men who want to have sex with them in exchange for parts or connections. Some do so, some don't. Some say no, in my experience the NO was respected.
We did a lot of drugs back then. We shared them. We lay around high as kites, it was fun. Had anyone forced themselves on us sexually it would have been called rape, no matter how stoned we all were.
This notion that to be alone with a man ,or to drink or to take drugs in a man's company means a woman is willing to be molested is ridiculous . Or even that she absolutely wants to have sex with anyone.
I worked in the world of fashion and film, saw countless beautiful young women do all those things and not one to my knowledge was molested or raped. Most men only wanted, and even today, with out drugs all over the place, only want, women who wanted them back. Young actress are always asked to come see powerful men who want to have sex with them in exchange for parts or connections. Some do so, some don't. Some say no, in my experience the NO was respected.
8
Being alone with a man or drinking/drugging in a man's company means a woman is taking the risk that a sexual act(s) may occur whether she wants it to or not. Women can ignore this if they want but that is the truth. Yes, law enforcement can be involved after the fact but why put yourself in that situation in the first place?
2
That Bill Cosby is a sexual predator can no longer be in doubt. What he did so easily, so often and in such a cavalier manner marks him as a special sort of malignant narcissist, one who is quite certain the women he drugged, molested, and raped, wanted him to do this to them because he was a big star and a good guy, at least in his own mind.
It is such a disappointment to read that this man who, in his TV life, did much to make black culture look good, wholesome, and humorous, is such a despicable creep in his private life. He isn't quite in the category of the UK entertainer, Jimmy Savile, whose objects of sexual molestation ranged from children to grandmothers, but the persistence of each man's behavior over long and successful careers in show business does show that even those in plain sight can harbor much malicious intent and carry it out with impunity for decades due to an aura of unbelievableness surrounding them. We didn't know the half of it about the man behind the Dr. Huxtable character, and the Jello Pudding Pop guy, not to mention the standup comic who could tell long tales of his childhood in a charming fashion. Just, wow.
9
I think this is really sad, but Cosby actually told the truth about what he did and what actually happened. He was open to any questions and did hesitate about anything. Usually people wouldn't dare tell the truth about anything they did.
It's sad because Cosby was acting as if he was protecting them and he actually wasn't.
It's sad because Cosby was acting as if he was protecting them and he actually wasn't.
You didn't read the earlier piece in the Times with extended quotes from the deposition conducted by the iron-willed Attorney Troiani. Cosby was disgusting and his lawyer rude and dismissive of a magnificent lawyer for the plaintiff. O'Connor referred to a female lawyer of 31 years experience as "young lady." That deposition and the Motion for Sanctions filed by Ms Troiani should be required reading in American law schools.
1
He has forever tarnished the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
This is what happens when awards are bestowed for no other reason than the 'diversity' standard.
He didn't deserve the award when he received it and it must now be rescinded, if for no other reason, than to honor its recipients who truly deserved it.
This is what happens when awards are bestowed for no other reason than the 'diversity' standard.
He didn't deserve the award when he received it and it must now be rescinded, if for no other reason, than to honor its recipients who truly deserved it.
9
The story here is the drugging and non-consensual sex, which if proven is rape. However horrible, it's a rather simple.
So, I really don't understand all of the sainted sexual morality police commenting on some of the other details which are not all that deviant. I mean, if it's wrong for one to use their positive attributes such as fame and wealth to attract a sexual partner, then at least half of the entire world's population (both men and women) are guilty of sexual immorality as well. Why are details such as this even included in the story? If anything, painting Cosby's courting habits (pre-drugging and raping) as perverse and wrong only strengthens his supporters because it's a fact that it's not wrong to persuade a woman to consensually go to his house to be alone with him. There's no crime or story there. Talking about these details just comes across as the media fishing for naughty info to further trash Cosby.
Advise: unless it's the tabloids, stick to talking about the actual criminal act. Otherwise, it diminishes the real severity of the situation.
So, I really don't understand all of the sainted sexual morality police commenting on some of the other details which are not all that deviant. I mean, if it's wrong for one to use their positive attributes such as fame and wealth to attract a sexual partner, then at least half of the entire world's population (both men and women) are guilty of sexual immorality as well. Why are details such as this even included in the story? If anything, painting Cosby's courting habits (pre-drugging and raping) as perverse and wrong only strengthens his supporters because it's a fact that it's not wrong to persuade a woman to consensually go to his house to be alone with him. There's no crime or story there. Talking about these details just comes across as the media fishing for naughty info to further trash Cosby.
Advise: unless it's the tabloids, stick to talking about the actual criminal act. Otherwise, it diminishes the real severity of the situation.
5
Not excusing Cosby but it looks like he did not actually 'force' these women to do anything, and the fact that in a lot of cases 30-40 years have passed until most of them spoke out about it. He'll probably never get any charges against him but his public image is gone.
2
Bill Cosby took advantage of his fame and power, but how many women are attracted to men because of their size, stature and power?... more than are willing to admit it. This is a game that goes both ways, where both parties wants to get something other than love. Both have motives.
Any man who invites a woman to his hotel room or to his house when his wife is not around, is, to most intelligent people, is not interested in your career.
Why don't people just admit, they made poor decisions that most thoughtful people would have avoided. People need to take more responsibility for being intelligent and independent minded people not easily swayed by an offer for a drink in a bedroom. After all everyone seems to forget, alcohol is a drug.
Any man who invites a woman to his hotel room or to his house when his wife is not around, is, to most intelligent people, is not interested in your career.
Why don't people just admit, they made poor decisions that most thoughtful people would have avoided. People need to take more responsibility for being intelligent and independent minded people not easily swayed by an offer for a drink in a bedroom. After all everyone seems to forget, alcohol is a drug.
3
His pride in his manipulative predation and his indifference to its impact on his victims are chilling. We're reading the deposition of a sociopath.
23
The Cosby story provides sufficient information for understanding contradictory behavior and making better judgments in our own lives.
The multitude of similar allegations are all we need to know what happened. Cosby's deposition provides a classic example of a person with thoughts and behaviors congruent with a sociopathic disorder of the "self".
Note his pervasive need for admiration, to be recognized as superior, his sense entitlement, lack of empathy and remorse. His use of deceptive, exploitative means of manipulating and overpowering women who are already less powerful. This man gives no indication of feel badly about his actions. In fact, he describes them with apparent indifference or pride. This means he cannot handle feeling insecure and vulnerable. He, thus, makes the "other" feel and/or become insecure and vulnerable.
We can run into this kind of person anywhere, not just in prisons. They may be community leaders. They may appear to be "loving" spouses and parents. The difficulty is recognizing they can be both. In order to make an accurate assessment, we have to integrate contradictory realities. Good judgment of this sort a requirement of adulthood.
The multitude of similar allegations are all we need to know what happened. Cosby's deposition provides a classic example of a person with thoughts and behaviors congruent with a sociopathic disorder of the "self".
Note his pervasive need for admiration, to be recognized as superior, his sense entitlement, lack of empathy and remorse. His use of deceptive, exploitative means of manipulating and overpowering women who are already less powerful. This man gives no indication of feel badly about his actions. In fact, he describes them with apparent indifference or pride. This means he cannot handle feeling insecure and vulnerable. He, thus, makes the "other" feel and/or become insecure and vulnerable.
We can run into this kind of person anywhere, not just in prisons. They may be community leaders. They may appear to be "loving" spouses and parents. The difficulty is recognizing they can be both. In order to make an accurate assessment, we have to integrate contradictory realities. Good judgment of this sort a requirement of adulthood.
5
Here's a guy who has and had everything and decided to conduct himself in this way. Sad.
7
Being a small time celebrity after a very successful movie (which will remain nameless) overnight brought me sexual access to a lot of beautiful women who wouldn't have given me the time of day otherwise. It was mind-boggling and very welcome for a shy man who'd had a very tough time getting dates. The entertainer groupie thing is very, very, real. But any seduction moves I made on them were readily accepted, and I wouldn't have slept with them if any had expressed any reluctance at all. I would've derived absolutely no pleasure unless it was unequivocally consensual. But then again I'm Paladin. Cosby evidently just wanted the sex at all costs--just like some of the college boys these days with their roofies.
The irony is that knowing that women were attracted to me only because of my celebrity/fame, and suspected economic status ultimately made me doubt my ability to attract a woman without it. It gave me less confidence with women not more. I emigrated to another English speaking country in the 90s where I had no profile whatsoever. That is what made me realize that I a bit of charm, intelligence, and personality that could interest a woman on it's own. I now treasure anonymity. I get a clearer reading on what I am intrinsically when I interact with women, and prefer that they discover what I've done or accomplished further down the road after we've connected. I love their amazed surprise that I haven't bragged about it. That's what really impresses them.
The irony is that knowing that women were attracted to me only because of my celebrity/fame, and suspected economic status ultimately made me doubt my ability to attract a woman without it. It gave me less confidence with women not more. I emigrated to another English speaking country in the 90s where I had no profile whatsoever. That is what made me realize that I a bit of charm, intelligence, and personality that could interest a woman on it's own. I now treasure anonymity. I get a clearer reading on what I am intrinsically when I interact with women, and prefer that they discover what I've done or accomplished further down the road after we've connected. I love their amazed surprise that I haven't bragged about it. That's what really impresses them.
9
Fortunately, with all this disgusting talk/exposure of Mr Cosby's exploits, he will thankfully, be remembered as a sick human being who exploited women for sex. In the near future, Mr Cosby will be buried (like all of us) and I wonder if anyone with even an ounce of dignity would show up at his funeral. The man deserves every hate he gets from now on.
17
One moral lesson here, obviously, is that one ought not to drug people in order to make them amenable to one's sexual advances. But there's another lesson that might be more relevant for more people. Mr. Cosby's deposition is a great reminder of how easy it is for anyone to justify his bad behavior when he thinks that he is following some kind of moral code that the "really" bad people don't follow.
Note that the deposition reveals that Mr. Cosby firmly believed that he was not a man who did "bad" things to women because a) he never bragged about his sexual conquests; b) the drugs he used (in his mind) were merely relaxants equivalent to a social drink; and c) he didn't have intercourse, and therefore didn't risk the women's "falling in love" with him or, presumably, fathering a child. The lesson: Since most humans who do reprehensible things imagine that they are nowhere near truly reprehensible, we each need to be on our guard against our own neediness and self-justification. "Crossing the line" rarely feels like jumping a gorge.
Note that the deposition reveals that Mr. Cosby firmly believed that he was not a man who did "bad" things to women because a) he never bragged about his sexual conquests; b) the drugs he used (in his mind) were merely relaxants equivalent to a social drink; and c) he didn't have intercourse, and therefore didn't risk the women's "falling in love" with him or, presumably, fathering a child. The lesson: Since most humans who do reprehensible things imagine that they are nowhere near truly reprehensible, we each need to be on our guard against our own neediness and self-justification. "Crossing the line" rarely feels like jumping a gorge.
7
Has it struck anyone else what harm comes to everyone with the common practice of using confidentially clauses in lawsuits? The public is kept from knowing what malfeasance has been done by individuals and by corporations, so they may blithely continue with the trust of one of the parties in the lawsuit :-(
7
The arrogance of this predator was aided and nurtured by all who stood to profit by him.
18
Maybe we shouldn't worship television stars.
16
Bill Cosby makes men everywhere look bad, Thanks for nothing.
9
The Amish have the right idea. Let's just shun him.
26
I'd prefer to shun him while he's wearing his orange jumpsuit...or perhaps for him they'll get him some nice orange sweat pants.
This article is incorrect that Bill Cosby has denied the accusations of rape. Since the fall of 2014 when Hannibal Buress and Barbara Bowman put the Cosby rape charges onto the national stage neither Cosby, his wife, his lawyers nor his publicists have actually, directly denied the accusations.
They have attacked the credibility of the accusers, they have attacked the media, they have done everything they can to inject obfuscation, misdirection, blame and distraction from the accusations, but they have never directly denied them.
Cosby said: "A guy doesn't have to answer to innuendo. People should fact-check." Non-denial. Camille Cosby said: "There appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers." Why not say, "My husband never did the things these women are claiming." Cosby's lawyer Martin Singer said, "Over and over again, we have refuted these new unsubstantiated stories with documentary evidence." When? What documentary evidence? Singer belittled the accusations as "fantastical stories about things they say occurred 30, 40, or even 50 years ago." Calling an accusation "fantastical" is a way to imply the accusation is untrue without ever actually denying it.
Why? Is Cosby somehow legally prevented from directly denying the accusations? Or is it purely a PR strategy not to fall into the classic Nixon "I'm not a crook" trap? Whatever the motivation, NYT please stop reporting that Cosby has denied the accusations. He's done everything but deny them.
They have attacked the credibility of the accusers, they have attacked the media, they have done everything they can to inject obfuscation, misdirection, blame and distraction from the accusations, but they have never directly denied them.
Cosby said: "A guy doesn't have to answer to innuendo. People should fact-check." Non-denial. Camille Cosby said: "There appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers." Why not say, "My husband never did the things these women are claiming." Cosby's lawyer Martin Singer said, "Over and over again, we have refuted these new unsubstantiated stories with documentary evidence." When? What documentary evidence? Singer belittled the accusations as "fantastical stories about things they say occurred 30, 40, or even 50 years ago." Calling an accusation "fantastical" is a way to imply the accusation is untrue without ever actually denying it.
Why? Is Cosby somehow legally prevented from directly denying the accusations? Or is it purely a PR strategy not to fall into the classic Nixon "I'm not a crook" trap? Whatever the motivation, NYT please stop reporting that Cosby has denied the accusations. He's done everything but deny them.
15
I am shocked less by Cosby's behavior than by the lengths to which women will go to become a "model" or "actress". That's the last thing the world needs another on of, by the way. Most girls over the age of 17 can sense a creeper. These ladies ignored every hair on there bodies that had to be standing on end when Cosby extended these invitations to hotel rooms, presumably for some "mentoring."
Spare me.
Spare me.
6
It is not that they will go to those length's being sound mentally fit adult human beings. People whom do this are not well developed mature people. They are often adult children whom were abused or abandoned and the perp's like Mr Cosby prey on the needs of such people to feel loved and wanted and cared for. Being broken in the ways they are makes it more difficult for them to see the exploitation the draw of getting their needs met is so string. The fact that they want to be a "star" is often a desire to make enough money to correct the things they think need correcting in their lives. This is a fact of life across all professions and one of the reasons behind the Union movement. To stop the exploitation of worker's whom are very often similarly damaged and that damage is exploited by the employer to make money instead of get sex or even both.
3
No, spare me the victim bashing and generalizations.
1
Not the first time the vehemence of the public moralizer has proved to have been a telltale sign of the private predator. Especially when the moralizer enjoys wealth and privilege -- and a very high soap box.
10
I think we forget that he was an actor, not a hero. The values he embodied in his work are the ones we embraced. The dark side of his private life is one that we now culturally reject. However, in Cosby's day, the day in which he rose to fame, his actions were sadly almost mainstream. Have you ever heard of the "casting couch?" And the sexual privileges granted to the famous in his day, and likely today were not uncommon. People knew and no one talked. This is what went on in many fields. I was sexually assaulted in a job interview during the late 70's and my lawyer father basically said to forget it. Women of my generation were assaulted on the job, date raped, etcetera, and told to just accept it. If we spoke up it was a "he said she said" situation. But even more than that it could hurt our "future" prospects. And honestly was it "that big a deal." Cosby was not so far out there. And even thought we talk a big game even today women must still watch out for being drugged by men in bars and on dates. Times are changing. I was outraged back then. Moved on. But why should any of these men get a pass? I'd love to out them all for their heinous behaviors! I just can't even remember their names.
5
I have one friend who had to wear sunglasses at the beach because too many women recognized his as his soap opera personality and walked up to him to propose sex. “Let’s find a restaurant to sit at,” he said.
I have another German friend who always played Nazis in Hollywood films, yet his politics were very anti-Nazi.
Let’s not confuse onstage and offstage personalities. Had Cosby played a sexual predator onscreen would he have been judged differently?
I have another German friend who always played Nazis in Hollywood films, yet his politics were very anti-Nazi.
Let’s not confuse onstage and offstage personalities. Had Cosby played a sexual predator onscreen would he have been judged differently?
1
Let's be honest. Mr. Cosby is not the first man to try and "seduce" a woman by making her inebriated. Cosby is also a man of a generation past who probably believes that any woman who puts herself in a vulnerable position by going to a married man's place and accepting a pill or two is "asking for it". It would be interesting to hear Cosby define "consent" in a court of law. I'm not sure what it would take for this man to show some compassion and regret for these women who felt violated. It's sad that his ego (or illness) won't acknowledge any wrongdoing. And scary that he got away with it for so long based on his celebrity.
5
Plus ca change but one thing. While affairs are always horrible, nauseating and insulting what has changed is that today's victim presses charges.
6
Rape is not an affair, it's a crime.
2
You are right. I think the definition of rape has been expanded--a good but sometimes confusing thing. How many women (and men) have been abused on the infamous ""casting couch" or in the Oval Office or in mansions of famous athletes, in the hope that these individuals will "re-pay" with a better jobs/connections.. whatever. Is that rape? I am not sure what the USA law says but it is to me. Its called abuse of one's power. Certainly when chemical substances are used to daze or cause victims to sleep while other do "their thing" is criminal.
It's a shame we've had to find out that he's common criminal. One has to wonder--why he took advantage of all these women in the way he did. For a couple thousand bucks he could have paid for it--from a willing participant.
10
There is an old Indian story about king Bhoja and his court poet Kalidasa. Bhoja asked Kalidasa what makes a man misbehave with a woman. Kalidasa gave a one word reply "ekanta," a Sanskrit word meaning roughly that "no one else is there". Bhoja, whose wife was beautiful, refused to believe this.
A week later the king was bathing in a river when he saw something floating. On close examination he saw that it was the body of a beautiful woman. He dragged her out of the water, but she was quite dead.
The king looked all around him and seeing no one, bent down and kissed the woman. When he lifted his head he saw the poet standing in front of him with a big smile on his face. Nothing needed to be said.
In America we have this odd belief that free and moral men and women will never yield to sexual temptation and if they do, it is because they are not moral. Thus our outrage at Cosby, the Republicans' outrage at Clinton, and the mattress woman at Columbia's outrage at her fellow student.
But perhaps Islam has it right - Ekanta is the culprit.
A week later the king was bathing in a river when he saw something floating. On close examination he saw that it was the body of a beautiful woman. He dragged her out of the water, but she was quite dead.
The king looked all around him and seeing no one, bent down and kissed the woman. When he lifted his head he saw the poet standing in front of him with a big smile on his face. Nothing needed to be said.
In America we have this odd belief that free and moral men and women will never yield to sexual temptation and if they do, it is because they are not moral. Thus our outrage at Cosby, the Republicans' outrage at Clinton, and the mattress woman at Columbia's outrage at her fellow student.
But perhaps Islam has it right - Ekanta is the culprit.
3
Seducers come in all shapes, genders, color and social status. When one is famous, rich or powerful, it can be felt by someone vulnerable, as an added attraction to the romantic spice of the moment.
At 10 when visiting my divorced father in Ireland, I looked at a framed newspaper print on the wall 'Jack the Big Bad Wolf' and curious I asked my dad what this was about. He chuckled and replied 'when you are 18'. Later I found out it was a big scandal in the British tabloids and here. Four men, including the actor Douglas Fairbanks, had been summoned to appear in front of a Scottish judge over the behavior of an errant duchess and her incensed husband, who was having affairs of his own and it was messy.
At a dinner party years later when asked 'how many?', my pops mentioned over 2000 with a twinkle in his eye. He was not famous, nor rich, nor a role model on TV, not a family guy in the true sense of the word. He loved women, and when he told one that he loved her, he meant it in the moment.
Not the most enlightening of stories, but he never had the need to use alcohol, or any drug, including an aspirin when he was in pursuit of a woman. While Bill Crosby is in big trouble, a question is raised 'why do these women come forward a decade later to make these claims?'. Why this 'Tell-All' after a few years?
Perhaps I missed something in this story and there is a reason, but these anecdotes seem to have the same pattern.
At 10 when visiting my divorced father in Ireland, I looked at a framed newspaper print on the wall 'Jack the Big Bad Wolf' and curious I asked my dad what this was about. He chuckled and replied 'when you are 18'. Later I found out it was a big scandal in the British tabloids and here. Four men, including the actor Douglas Fairbanks, had been summoned to appear in front of a Scottish judge over the behavior of an errant duchess and her incensed husband, who was having affairs of his own and it was messy.
At a dinner party years later when asked 'how many?', my pops mentioned over 2000 with a twinkle in his eye. He was not famous, nor rich, nor a role model on TV, not a family guy in the true sense of the word. He loved women, and when he told one that he loved her, he meant it in the moment.
Not the most enlightening of stories, but he never had the need to use alcohol, or any drug, including an aspirin when he was in pursuit of a woman. While Bill Crosby is in big trouble, a question is raised 'why do these women come forward a decade later to make these claims?'. Why this 'Tell-All' after a few years?
Perhaps I missed something in this story and there is a reason, but these anecdotes seem to have the same pattern.
1
You seem to have missed that the women in this case were raped.
4
Another aspect of this shameful case is how our legal system failed us.
That testimony should never have been sealed and the laws that made that possible should be changed and the judge who sealed it should be liable for damages from all who were victimized by Cosby. These laws have also allowed auto makers and other corporations to pay off victims and keep hurting and killing people.
Also, we need to change the mindset that testimony of many, many women is not equivalent to that of one male predator. We are worse that the Middle East in that respect.
That testimony should never have been sealed and the laws that made that possible should be changed and the judge who sealed it should be liable for damages from all who were victimized by Cosby. These laws have also allowed auto makers and other corporations to pay off victims and keep hurting and killing people.
Also, we need to change the mindset that testimony of many, many women is not equivalent to that of one male predator. We are worse that the Middle East in that respect.
23
The crux of the problem that lies with most serial sexual predators and rapists is that they don't believe their behavior is wrong. They can justify anything and everything. Their are almost borderline pathological because they live and breath by a code of denial and hatred of women.
28
The fact that Cosby drugged women to have sex is unlawful rape, for sure. That is what this story is about, and I wish the news would stick with talking only about this fact when talking about his deviant sexual practices. I don't understand why there are other factoids like him using "his wealth and fame" to influence young women to be with him as if that is also perverse... because let me tell you something, if using one's positive attributes to attract a partner is wrong, then at least half on Manhattan's (actually, the entire world's) men (and women) are also sexually perverse as well. For me, this is where delving into Cosby's sex life goes too far. As long as it's consented, it's just sex. Where are these sainted sexual morality police coming from all of a sudden? If we're talking about the act of drugging and rape, that's the story. The process of courting and getting someone to be alone with you is an everyday normal phenomenon. Please leave all these non criminal details out of the news unless it's the tabloids!
7
It's mentioned, because it shows a pattern of behavior and it's completely relevant to the other charges.
2
The gentleman on CBS This Morning (who had a part in the Huxtable tv series) came across with the best explaination as to how Mr. William Cosby should react now.
Character is in judgement not reputation.
I remember Cosby during the "I Spy" days. Not realizing what it was for a black man to reach such heights. But remember it was the '60's. With enough money (as today) you could pretty much get anyone to do your bidding.
How many women were complicete and how many were assaulted - well, that will be up to the lawyers.
As the gentleman said, 'Bill, you have enough money. You will not spend it all.' A rural life is looking pretty good. However your wife who has suffered through all of this. How is her frame of mind?
If she is encouraging a rural way of life while at the same time taking gun lessons. Your sort of trapped Bill.
Character is in judgement not reputation.
I remember Cosby during the "I Spy" days. Not realizing what it was for a black man to reach such heights. But remember it was the '60's. With enough money (as today) you could pretty much get anyone to do your bidding.
How many women were complicete and how many were assaulted - well, that will be up to the lawyers.
As the gentleman said, 'Bill, you have enough money. You will not spend it all.' A rural life is looking pretty good. However your wife who has suffered through all of this. How is her frame of mind?
If she is encouraging a rural way of life while at the same time taking gun lessons. Your sort of trapped Bill.
I'm one of the women who thought Mr. Cosby might have been unjustly accused by the women who came forward in the past months. When I read this article, I realized that I had been wrong. Those women were victims of being misled, drugged, and sexually molested. I'm sorry I didn't believe them until now.
Reading about Cosby's deposition and admissions made me feel sick and sad. Sick because he used his public persona to disguise his true intentions, and sad because I had believed he was in fact the man he presented through his public persona. Sad because the funny, kind, gentlemanly Bill Cosby, the one who I idolized as a child, has feet of clay.
It's not clear from the information here whether Mr. Cosby committed crimes. But it is clear that he behaved immorally, in ways that the public Mr. Cosby would have never condoned.
Reading about Cosby's deposition and admissions made me feel sick and sad. Sick because he used his public persona to disguise his true intentions, and sad because I had believed he was in fact the man he presented through his public persona. Sad because the funny, kind, gentlemanly Bill Cosby, the one who I idolized as a child, has feet of clay.
It's not clear from the information here whether Mr. Cosby committed crimes. But it is clear that he behaved immorally, in ways that the public Mr. Cosby would have never condoned.
23
Spend almost any amount of time in LA or the Bay Area and you will see the culture is full of accepted exploitations of the emotional baggage of people whom were broken in their childhood or by trauma as an adult. Maybe that is all of America but I never saw it so open as it is there.
3
The women put themselves into the situation. Enough said.
1
It's interesting that there are no women that have come out and said that they had sex with Mr Cosby without being drugged. He obviously prefers it this way which in itself shows how he's only interested in situations where he cane completely in control and where he need think only of himself. It's to bad for his victims that he didn't instead inflict his pathology on a blow up doll.
7
But why would women who had consensual sex with him be coming forward?
Consensual, anyway, was defined differently back then. Not excusing him - he is obviously a skunk. But our societal understanding of consent in sex has changed greatly - almost night and day. His behavior, for the era, was basically the norm, or at least, very , very common.
Consensual, anyway, was defined differently back then. Not excusing him - he is obviously a skunk. But our societal understanding of consent in sex has changed greatly - almost night and day. His behavior, for the era, was basically the norm, or at least, very , very common.
1
We have all been victims of Mr. Cosby's seduction. It seems that Dr. Huxtable and all the funny and warm characters in his comic arsenal are the fabrications that he used to hide his true nature. Shame on him for his years of predatory behavior and shame on us for not listening to the women he preyed upon. We were duped and seduced as well, but the drug was fame and a calculated image.
15
If Mr. Cosby was so skilled in picking up nonverbal cues that signaled a woman's consent, why bother to drug her?
Those who shout the loudest of their stellar morality are usually the biggest hypocrites and violators.
How can he and his wife live with themselves after imitating and perpetuating a lifetime of damage and pain caused to these women? On some level, she is just as despicable as he is because she allowed her silence to be bought.
Those who shout the loudest of their stellar morality are usually the biggest hypocrites and violators.
How can he and his wife live with themselves after imitating and perpetuating a lifetime of damage and pain caused to these women? On some level, she is just as despicable as he is because she allowed her silence to be bought.
26
"On some level, she (Mrs. Cosby) is just as despicable as he is because she allowed her silence to be bought." No. This is wrong. (think: Hillary Clinton?) If she had tried to divorce him, had exposed him, any of these things, NO ONE and I mean no one, would have believed her either. Look at all of the Famous Women who have had to suffer the exploits of their rich, connected, famous husbands.(Hillary for starters..) It's a fact: women, whether wives or "objects" are not valued and to blame Mrs. Cosby and call her despicable is just wrong. You are not in her shoes, you don't know how he could have destroyed her even more than he already has.
In my hast, I made a typo and wrote "imitating" instead of writing "initiating a lifetime of damage and pain . .
Bill Cosby's pathological, predatory and criminal behavior was, for decades, facilitated by the shamed silence and willful denial of both the people he victimized and kept in his circle. Perhaps most especially, his weak, damaged, and pathetically spineless wife, who redirects her loathing to the women he has hurt. Many victims of sexual abuse have been told directly by the disgraced wives or mothers of the predators that they are to blame, and directed, with displaced disgust, to keep quiet "or else." I was, and I know how powerfully emasculating that direction can be.
The truth is, there will always be evil, deviant men on the prowl. We can't make them go away, but we can stop pretending they don't exist and stoking their power in the process.
The truth is, there will always be evil, deviant men on the prowl. We can't make them go away, but we can stop pretending they don't exist and stoking their power in the process.
16
The interesting [false] belief by Cosby and many others that an orgasm represents consent. The body naturally responds to stimuli- whether pleasure or pain. If an individual has surgery- afterwards there will be pain- albeit pain associated with a voluntary decision to pave surgery. Whereas, if I stub my toe on the chair- I will experience pain- resulting from an involuntary and unwanted action. Until individuals, lawyers, Courts and Juries are able to comprehend how the body actually works, we will continue to have severe problems with definitions of sexual assault.
6
Really, this is a big story only because Cosby set himself up as a moralistic scold. For that, he deserves condemnation. Otherwise, it's kind of a "so-what" Hollywood story.
3
Only in America can yet a sordid tale about an entertainer or athlete push ISIS, Iran & nuclear weapons, Syria, the Charleston murders, Donald Trump, the Chattanooga murders, etc. out of the limelight.
But that says a lot about Americans. At least "The Daily Show" will be back next week.
But that says a lot about Americans. At least "The Daily Show" will be back next week.
2
In the Court of Public Opinion, Bill Cosby has (depending on just WHO you talk to) been tried, convicted and sentenced. But worse, his successes, accomplishnents, triumphs and achievements have rendered invalid by too many of the same people.
Just as one can't act as if his inexcusable conduct never happened, the same holds true
of the good he did.
This reminds me to a point, of Phil Spector, the
convicted murderer, who in his distantly past life, was one of Rock 'n Roll music's most iconic record producers; the man behind the musically legendary "Wall of Sound," which served as an influence on Beach Boy Brian Wilson (but, I digress).
My point is...just as one can't or shouldn't turn a blind eye to their crimes, their past contributions shouldn't be made null and void.
In other words, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
Just as one can't act as if his inexcusable conduct never happened, the same holds true
of the good he did.
This reminds me to a point, of Phil Spector, the
convicted murderer, who in his distantly past life, was one of Rock 'n Roll music's most iconic record producers; the man behind the musically legendary "Wall of Sound," which served as an influence on Beach Boy Brian Wilson (but, I digress).
My point is...just as one can't or shouldn't turn a blind eye to their crimes, their past contributions shouldn't be made null and void.
In other words, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
2
Interestingly ironic that two icons have been tarnished by recent revelations. One fictional, Atticus Finch, and one real Bill Cosby. Both enjoyed sterling reputations for being decent, moral, upstanding figures whom many sought to emulate for roughly the same number of years, now both stand exposed as indeed having feet of clay.
I am so disappointed and saddened in what has been revealed as the true nature of both figures. Does the good outweigh the bad? I just don't know.......
I am so disappointed and saddened in what has been revealed as the true nature of both figures. Does the good outweigh the bad? I just don't know.......
1
I'm stunned that even after it's clear that Cosby admits raping women after drugging them, that some people still think it's the women's fault.
27
Where does he mention rape? You are making things up.
1
With so many women willing to voluntarily have sex with him (aka groupies), that he resorted to drugs says a lot about the ugliness beneath his public persona.
16
To have this article as front page news for this entire Sunday morning says a lot about America.
Yes, creepiness took place over many years, yes, all of Cosby's friends and colleagues knew about this as did TV stations, Advertisers making a fortune, and show employees tagging along and also making a fortune. But, using the all-American disclaimer: "The Show Must Go ON."
Actually, there is a lot of similarity between the old Hitler followers in Germany, constantly saying "Ich Haben Es Nicht Gewusst" when it came to the killer concentration camps but then also constantly finding some former SSr having worked at Auschwitz but now in his nineties with just a few years to live and punish him severely. We're all the same.
In short, Cosby is a disaster as is anybody knowing it but keeping their mouth shut.
Whatever, it is juicy reading stuff for Sunday Morning - beats going to church.
Yes, creepiness took place over many years, yes, all of Cosby's friends and colleagues knew about this as did TV stations, Advertisers making a fortune, and show employees tagging along and also making a fortune. But, using the all-American disclaimer: "The Show Must Go ON."
Actually, there is a lot of similarity between the old Hitler followers in Germany, constantly saying "Ich Haben Es Nicht Gewusst" when it came to the killer concentration camps but then also constantly finding some former SSr having worked at Auschwitz but now in his nineties with just a few years to live and punish him severely. We're all the same.
In short, Cosby is a disaster as is anybody knowing it but keeping their mouth shut.
Whatever, it is juicy reading stuff for Sunday Morning - beats going to church.
2
This is nothing more than: Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages. An English term of similar meaning (but with no noun equivalent) is "to gloat"; which means to feel, or express, great, often malicious, pleasure, or self-satisfaction, at one's own success, or at another's failure.[2]
3
I was in my teens and twenties in the 1970s. Never did I think taking qualuudes was the same as having a drink. Cosby illegally gave women qualuudes (that were his own prescription), then manipulated them into sex. That is rape. Cosby's cavalier attitude just makes it all the more despicable. He duped the entire country, then accepted a "medal of freedom" that he clearly did not deserve. The medal should be revoked.
30
This has to be one of the saddest American stories. Cosby played the protector and was really a predator.
81
And a common story it is, if we're willing to look a little closer and believe the children and women everywhere in our family and criminal courts who are trying to stay safe.
The fact that anyone with money can buy their way out of prosecution with bribes and expensive lawyers is in itself immoral. Shades of Micheal Jackson and many others in the entertainment, sports and political arena. Rich people rarely, if ever get imprisoned for their offenses and criminal behaviors. Cosby himself always struck me as being very smarmy and unfunny. For many years it was a very well known fact in the entertainment industry that he was a lech.
There's 100's if not 1,000's of sexually deviant people with power and money in all walks of life. Hollywood, music and modeling worlds are all notorious for its misogyny and abuse of women.
There's 100's if not 1,000's of sexually deviant people with power and money in all walks of life. Hollywood, music and modeling worlds are all notorious for its misogyny and abuse of women.
9
The story sounds very suspicious. The routine use of drugs for only the other person is a huge red flag. Still a little disturbed by how many people are willing to condemn him on the basis of this story alone. There is a lot of ideological extremism on display in the comments which is why it comes across as a witch-hunt.
The NYT was irresponsible for publishing this exclusive in such a "red meat" fashion. The article turned Bill Cosby into a human piñata for a ravenously rape-baiting public at the height of its dudgeon.
Even the most righteous ideology needs to be applied with patience, perspective, and attentiveness to to possibility of error.
The NYT was irresponsible for publishing this exclusive in such a "red meat" fashion. The article turned Bill Cosby into a human piñata for a ravenously rape-baiting public at the height of its dudgeon.
Even the most righteous ideology needs to be applied with patience, perspective, and attentiveness to to possibility of error.
4
"Suspicious?" The stories, accusations, and charges against Bill Cosby have been around, and reported, since the late 1960s and 1970s. This story in the NY Times is by no means "an exclusive" -- it's all over the globe, and has been for a long time. The fact that you don't follow the news doesn't make Cosby any less a rapist -- it just means your head has been in the sand. So what else is new?
2
James, much of this story is drawn from Cosby's own deposition.
2
Hey Sam. On the front page, right above the photo. It says "exclusive". That's why I used that word.
Your criticism is totally unwarranted.
Your criticism is totally unwarranted.
2
It appears that a lot of vitriol surfaces out of this because of the sheer number of times some woman, somewhere, has been tricked [ie conned, seduced, etc] into giving herself away and later realized she was getting the short end of the stick.
The real issue seems to be whether Cosby actually did anything that wasn't considered acceptable by society at the time. Quaaludes were a very popular part of sex activity during those times, and their use doesn't constitute date rape. Most people receiving that drug and others were consensually involved in the moment.
There is a crime of the soul, committed all the time, where men take advantage of the female's general willingness to commit to 'love' in order to promote love. It is truly reprehensible. But this article, in a bit of feeding frenzy, does little to clarify that issue.
The real issue seems to be whether Cosby actually did anything that wasn't considered acceptable by society at the time. Quaaludes were a very popular part of sex activity during those times, and their use doesn't constitute date rape. Most people receiving that drug and others were consensually involved in the moment.
There is a crime of the soul, committed all the time, where men take advantage of the female's general willingness to commit to 'love' in order to promote love. It is truly reprehensible. But this article, in a bit of feeding frenzy, does little to clarify that issue.
8
The article begins: "He was not above seducing a young model by showing interest in her father's cancer." I would estimate that that statement is true of 99.9% of straight men. Obviously Cosby is a disgusting person and a horrible creep, but this behavior is not criminal. If it were, our prisons and jails would be even more overcrowded than they already are.
1
Over 40 women claimed to have been drugged and raped by Cosby, and I don't dispute that they're telling the truth. However I will forever be puzzled as to why not one of them walked out of his house afterward, and went to the police. And why some continued to see him again after the first rape, and were subsequently raped again--also without going to the police. I don't get that at all.
Yes, I know it would've been hard to confront such a powerful man. Yes, I know they would've been put through the judicial ringer, but the simple fact was the only people who could've stopped him from doing this and getting away with it was them. By not reporting him or bringing it to the media's attention, they actually enabled him to continue to victimize other unsuspecting women. The same way the Catholic Church's not reporting their pedophile preachers enabled them to victimize other innocent children.
When Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus how hard to you think it was for her to do that in the south in the 50s? It was terrifying and fraught with danger. But she did it. And segregation toppled.
Nobody gets celebrated for doing what is easy. Only for doing what is risky and hard without a guarantee of success. As my father once said, "The only things really worth doing are the hard things".
I feel for Mr. Cosby's victims, but you'd think that at least one of them could've been a little braver and put a stop to his terrible behavior many years ago.
Yes, I know it would've been hard to confront such a powerful man. Yes, I know they would've been put through the judicial ringer, but the simple fact was the only people who could've stopped him from doing this and getting away with it was them. By not reporting him or bringing it to the media's attention, they actually enabled him to continue to victimize other unsuspecting women. The same way the Catholic Church's not reporting their pedophile preachers enabled them to victimize other innocent children.
When Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus how hard to you think it was for her to do that in the south in the 50s? It was terrifying and fraught with danger. But she did it. And segregation toppled.
Nobody gets celebrated for doing what is easy. Only for doing what is risky and hard without a guarantee of success. As my father once said, "The only things really worth doing are the hard things".
I feel for Mr. Cosby's victims, but you'd think that at least one of them could've been a little braver and put a stop to his terrible behavior many years ago.
3
doctors are acutely aware of the risks involved in drugging a patient -- was mr cosby? considering the number of victims (of wh we are aware,) he is lucky merely to be accused of rape, not murder.
11
This article closes by basically blaming the victim for the fact that, because she settled, the deposition was "filed away" and others "never had a chance to pursue their claims in court". Leaving aside the facts that the deposition apparently WAS available, and that Ms. Constand's lawyer was the one who asked for confdentiality to be lifted - why is such a stance even slightly taken (and this is more than slight) when the real culprit is a man with decades of appalling sexual predation? I'm disappointed in the NYT here.
4
Its not surprising to me that Cosby wants to be seen as "honorable" and his comment about women telling first is indicative of his true opinion of women. An opinion shared by many of the truly wealthy and powerful. An opinion that is demeaning and twisted. One that allows a clearly intelligent man to drug women in order to more easily achieve his twisted aim. We get it,Sir, women are beneath you and are here to fulfil your desires.
Absent the wealth . ..Mr . Cosby is exactly who he fears the most...nothing but a dirty old man who simply substituted the dirty rain mac with sweats. Indeed.
Absent the wealth . ..Mr . Cosby is exactly who he fears the most...nothing but a dirty old man who simply substituted the dirty rain mac with sweats. Indeed.
7
There are several concurrent realities here.
It is both wrong and illegal to drug and rape people.
It is a form of prostitution to offer one*s companionship in the hope of receiving some sort of advantage or preferment for doing so.
And--just because HE disrespects his wife, doesn't mean you are blameless for doing so as well.
I too was once young and stupid and with somewhat of an elastic conscience. I am fortunate that I never faced serious consequences for my immaturity and foolishness. Many of these women did.
No one comes off unsullied here. Cosby is vile and a criminal. The young women he raped were pretending not to see the obvious. There*s no dearth of lore on what getting ahead in Hollywood often--ugh--entails.
Unfortunately, in the real world, behaving stupidly can lead to very bad outcomes. Do not just try to armor yourself in concepts like *no means no,* which are of course true; that incapacity to give consent means no consent was given; etc. Also begin refraining from doing the wrong thing yourself; from putting yourself in questionable situations. If your response is that everyone does it to get ahead, you are, yourself, part of the problem, and encouraging more wretched people to continue to behave badly.
It is both wrong and illegal to drug and rape people.
It is a form of prostitution to offer one*s companionship in the hope of receiving some sort of advantage or preferment for doing so.
And--just because HE disrespects his wife, doesn't mean you are blameless for doing so as well.
I too was once young and stupid and with somewhat of an elastic conscience. I am fortunate that I never faced serious consequences for my immaturity and foolishness. Many of these women did.
No one comes off unsullied here. Cosby is vile and a criminal. The young women he raped were pretending not to see the obvious. There*s no dearth of lore on what getting ahead in Hollywood often--ugh--entails.
Unfortunately, in the real world, behaving stupidly can lead to very bad outcomes. Do not just try to armor yourself in concepts like *no means no,* which are of course true; that incapacity to give consent means no consent was given; etc. Also begin refraining from doing the wrong thing yourself; from putting yourself in questionable situations. If your response is that everyone does it to get ahead, you are, yourself, part of the problem, and encouraging more wretched people to continue to behave badly.
9
The article is not about a woman in Hollywood -- she was in collegiate sports and the world of higher education.
2
I am baffled by how many comments here boil down to "boys will be boys," and seem to think we ought to shrug our shoulders and ascribe Cosby's behavior to simply wooing and winning women, whatever the cost. Would you wish for your son, no matter his wealth or status, to slip women drugs and then have sex with them while they are passed out or, at the very least, too incapacitated to participate - let alone offer consent? Would you wish for your daughter, no matter how worldly or sophisticated, to find herself alone with a man who would deem his "seduction" acceptable even when it includes drugs? Particularly drugs he vaguely identifies, if at all?
And please bear in mind that when a number of these offenses occurred, terms like "date rape" or "grooming" didn't exist or have the same level of awareness that they do today. Many of these women, especially the ones who were very young and inexperienced, found themselves paid attention by someone powerful who could help make or break their careers, and I've little doubt Cosby knew this and used it to his advantage.
This is not a case of a seducer who at least plays fair even if he is aggressive. This is something terribly different, with terrible results.
And please bear in mind that when a number of these offenses occurred, terms like "date rape" or "grooming" didn't exist or have the same level of awareness that they do today. Many of these women, especially the ones who were very young and inexperienced, found themselves paid attention by someone powerful who could help make or break their careers, and I've little doubt Cosby knew this and used it to his advantage.
This is not a case of a seducer who at least plays fair even if he is aggressive. This is something terribly different, with terrible results.
15
Cosby's behavior here is quite similar to Bill Clinton's behavior with Monica Lewinsky, using power to obtain sex from young women. Will Cosby's reputation be "rehabilitated" as was Clinton's?
2
Key difference: with Monica, it was consensual.
3
As far as I'm aware, the President did not use drugs or engage in non-consensual relations.
3
A long list of women accused Bill Clinton of rape rape .. not date rape.
Bill Cosby: A Modern Avatar of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
That a popular actor and comedian could sustain a double-life
for so long is testimony to the power of wealth and fame. But that not one of his many victims reported Mr. Cosby's drugging and molesting her to the police, to her doctor ( providing her or him Mr. Cosby's DNA inside her), and her lawyer the same night of the assault is beyond comprehension.
That a popular actor and comedian could sustain a double-life
for so long is testimony to the power of wealth and fame. But that not one of his many victims reported Mr. Cosby's drugging and molesting her to the police, to her doctor ( providing her or him Mr. Cosby's DNA inside her), and her lawyer the same night of the assault is beyond comprehension.
1
No, it's not unusual at all for people to take hours and hours to come out of a drugging, for one. It's also not unusual at all for women to blame themselves for what happened for a long time, and for the record, several women did go to the police and lawyers -- no charges were filed and nothing was done. What is strange is that you would think that after being drugged and raped, you think a woman would run to anyone, let alone lawyers or police or other strangers to divulge something so incredibly personal, instead of just hovering over the john to throw up for hours.
I do not condone Cosby's behavior, but this is a front page story because of celebrity. I wish people would regard stories of political deception with equal outrage. The climate change denials of Ted Cruz and Marc Rubio, hue and cry President Obama being "lawless" when he enacts legitimate executive orders just like every other president, Fox News -- just about everything they "report" regarding President Obama: all of that is exactly the same kind of deception as drugging someone's drink, and for the same four-letter purpose.
16
I agree, as I watch Americans being rendered senseless by the "roofies" of hate and lies by talk radio and Fox's Right Wing propaganda so they can be "raped" by sociopathic, self-aggrandizing politicians.
The Urantia Book 48:7.3
1. A display of specialized skill does not signify possession of spiritual capacity. Cleverness is not a substitute for true character.
1. A display of specialized skill does not signify possession of spiritual capacity. Cleverness is not a substitute for true character.
2
what he did is definitely wrong, but will say as a commentary on public perception that this is basically the lifestyle that a lot of rock stars bragged about & were to a degree worshiped for in the 70's & 80's, so I guess the key there would be to come clean about it, and/or not have a public persona of a family friendly moralist that the other behavior you have to hide will seem so contrary & shocking next to when revealed eventually
8
I find it disgusting that this has become front page news. From the dawn of time, men have been using "power and money" to seduce women. If you're hanging out with a man alone, and he offers you quaaludes, I'd say you're interested in sexual activity. In the 70's this was not grounds for "rape" claim. If we didn't shame women about sex, and if we weren't opportunistic racist litigious members of this antiseptic american cult, and if the media didn't love a good racist drama, we could all get high and laid and be happy, like other non-Puritans. How about we focus on finding the real evil in our society?
8
Another icon of respectability is taken down by his own actions. Is there anybody out there that Americans can look up to and emulate?
Men cause many problems in this world.
We have to recognize our biological traits - from our sexual desires to our aggressive tendencies and many others - and keep an eye on our behavior. We can do bad things without even realizing it, driven by the biology we have.
Of course we do bad things consciously as well.
I try to understand how my maleness affects my relationship with others - men and women. I consider myself a good man but I have made mistakes that my inner traits enable.
I and all men have to raise our consciousness and try our best to be aware and do better.
Cosby can be a catalyst for all men to examine their behavior and relations towards women and other men.
Men, the world over are a source of many problems.
And men need support help in changing for the better.
That's the big issue here.
We have to recognize our biological traits - from our sexual desires to our aggressive tendencies and many others - and keep an eye on our behavior. We can do bad things without even realizing it, driven by the biology we have.
Of course we do bad things consciously as well.
I try to understand how my maleness affects my relationship with others - men and women. I consider myself a good man but I have made mistakes that my inner traits enable.
I and all men have to raise our consciousness and try our best to be aware and do better.
Cosby can be a catalyst for all men to examine their behavior and relations towards women and other men.
Men, the world over are a source of many problems.
And men need support help in changing for the better.
That's the big issue here.
2
Paul, just an FYI, but women have sex too.
3
What kind of monster would do these kind of things? Ask Bill and Hillary Clinton, she's ignored it all her adult life. All for her own consumption of power.
Double Standards for a lot of people? Maybe.
Double Standards for a lot of people? Maybe.
3
I dunno. I remember the seventies and I remember the quaalude scene. Quaaludes make you dopey and happy and often aggressively affectionate, much like alcohol. It really was like offering someone drinks. It's hard to imagine that these women didn't know what they were and what they did, as they were quite common and popular, he didn't slip them in their drinks, and knowing 'ludes they were probably quite amorous, not sedated unconscious. And they were of age. So he's a smarmy seducer, and manipulative, but not a criminal, any more than a man who has sex with a grown woman who willingly disinhibits with alcohol and doesn't protest his advances. Many of us have awakened on a morning after and regretted drunken behavior, but I strongly disagree with people who want to make rape cases in those circumstances. To me it all hinges on whether they knew what they were taking or if he lied - and given that scene I strongly suspect the former.
I'm a feminist and I hate the infantalization and condescension that grown women invite when they confuse seduction with rape in order to evade adult responsibility and sometimes their own sexuality - there's always been a puritanical aspect that's nothing but a new face on the old woman-as-vulnerable-child motif.
And I hate the real rapists. We should be more clear on who's who here.
I'm a feminist and I hate the infantalization and condescension that grown women invite when they confuse seduction with rape in order to evade adult responsibility and sometimes their own sexuality - there's always been a puritanical aspect that's nothing but a new face on the old woman-as-vulnerable-child motif.
And I hate the real rapists. We should be more clear on who's who here.
13
You are making a lot of assumptions about what happened with Mr. Cosby and his targets.
And while ingesting intoxicants may be foolish and risky, it provides no excuse for those who take advantage of the incapacitated. Puritanism is often imposed in patriarchical societies where those in power are projecting their own poor impulse control.
Ps. You are not a feminist.
And while ingesting intoxicants may be foolish and risky, it provides no excuse for those who take advantage of the incapacitated. Puritanism is often imposed in patriarchical societies where those in power are projecting their own poor impulse control.
Ps. You are not a feminist.
6
Reread Beverly Johnson's account. I think many other women had the same experience. They did not know they were being drugged.
I remember quaaludes too. Big fun. But not if you don't want to be in a state of near unconsciousness . If I'd been given them without my knowing, that would have been a true nightmare.
I remember quaaludes too. Big fun. But not if you don't want to be in a state of near unconsciousness . If I'd been given them without my knowing, that would have been a true nightmare.
2
I agree, no excuse. It's an extremely nasty thing to do. But it's also not a criminal act, a rape, UNLESS these women were not aware that they were ingesting quaaludes and/or they communicated that they didn't want to have any sexual activity. If Cosby lied about the drugs then it was a rape. If they protested before or during he act it was a rape. If they willingly got stoned on a well-known dis-inhibiting substance with a man from whom they expected favors and were deeply regretful the next day, it's not rape. And I take the stand that I do not because I think Cosby is anything but a narcissistic manipulator and creep, but because the puritanism in feminism to which I refer undermines the impulse control that is expected of every adult human in society; both men and women will and may seduce, that's a dance that will never be abolished, but they may not force. If he said it was aspirin, it's a rape. If the women colluded as part of their own seduction of money and power for perks, again, they got had, but they weren't raped. And Rita, I'm a woman who's been a very active feminist for many years. I'm not the only one who dislikes the school of thought that places all sexual responsibility on the male. It's reactionary and ultimately undermines both women and activism against actual rape.
1
So very sad. I have always admired Bill Cosby. A brilliant comedian. A PhD in Psychology. Extolling family values.
It all turns out to be a lie.
This may finally cure my naivete.
It all turns out to be a lie.
This may finally cure my naivete.
4
Cosby has a PhD in education, not psychology. His dissertation was about using Fat Albert in the classroom as a teaching aid. His defense of his dissertation took place at a dinner in his home. IMHO that constitutes a FAKE degree, even though he used to use Dr. William Cosby in credits of his sitcom.
2
What I don't understand is why did he give that deposition. I assume he had lawyers with him and they didn't stop him from confessing to multiple crimes? I'm glad it's out. Monumental mistake, or conscious?
1
Man, I desperately need a shower after reading that. Only the most hardened misogynist could possibly continue to defend him.
10
My view of this is colored by a series of never investigated hate crimes in Davis CA in July August 91... a 50 something woman claimed to have been hit in the head with a skateboard and dragged into some bushes and raped by a half dozen teen males in a north Davis greenbelt bikepath.
numerous graffiti soon appeared spray painted. I personally saw 'the only good man is a dead man' & 'castrate all boys'. There was a lot more.
The woman later confessed she made the whole thing up and bandaged herself to make for "evidence" of a crime. There was, of course, no rape kit allowed.
Turns out the incident, if not engineered, was hijacked to try to create the impression the mayor's son was one of the crowd, and the mayor was blocking the police. Dirty local political skulldudgery...
The police were actually blocked, by feminist agitation, from tracking down the hate crime graffiti arm (though it was an open secret who commanded those troops...)
someone is behind the Cosby media lynching, too, in my view.
numerous graffiti soon appeared spray painted. I personally saw 'the only good man is a dead man' & 'castrate all boys'. There was a lot more.
The woman later confessed she made the whole thing up and bandaged herself to make for "evidence" of a crime. There was, of course, no rape kit allowed.
Turns out the incident, if not engineered, was hijacked to try to create the impression the mayor's son was one of the crowd, and the mayor was blocking the police. Dirty local political skulldudgery...
The police were actually blocked, by feminist agitation, from tracking down the hate crime graffiti arm (though it was an open secret who commanded those troops...)
someone is behind the Cosby media lynching, too, in my view.
3
What??? There are something like 41 women accusing him. It would be impossible to get them all to stage elaborate lies for this long with this much scrutiny.
Half the journalists on earth are tying to find out if any are indeed not telling the truth. Trying to find any possible evidence of conspiracy.
Sorry to say it seems you who still defend him are simply looking for a conspiracy to explain the horror of the blatant truth to yourselves. .
Half the journalists on earth are tying to find out if any are indeed not telling the truth. Trying to find any possible evidence of conspiracy.
Sorry to say it seems you who still defend him are simply looking for a conspiracy to explain the horror of the blatant truth to yourselves. .
3
There is no question but that his views irritated a lot of people. I suspect that is driving this litigation, along with a quest for compensation.
2
41 accusing of what exactly? Not all concern "penile penetration", or put blunt, rape.
& of those claiming rape, not one got a rape kit exam, and 5 of 6 claimed they were lights out in the event (which is very clever from a legal beagle POV as they do not have to identify any part of his body, and if he taped it all, their..what..audible endearments would be "unconscious").
Actually one can see where some of the accusers may be stuck, under "contingency" if they fire counsel they have 100s of thousands to pay (and if the attorneys lose they have IRS write-offs).
My bet, odds on, is one accuser will flip and tell of how the CONSPIRACY worked...even better newsprint to come.
& of those claiming rape, not one got a rape kit exam, and 5 of 6 claimed they were lights out in the event (which is very clever from a legal beagle POV as they do not have to identify any part of his body, and if he taped it all, their..what..audible endearments would be "unconscious").
Actually one can see where some of the accusers may be stuck, under "contingency" if they fire counsel they have 100s of thousands to pay (and if the attorneys lose they have IRS write-offs).
My bet, odds on, is one accuser will flip and tell of how the CONSPIRACY worked...even better newsprint to come.
1
Many years ago I took one, or a part of one, Quaalude. The reason I don't remember if I took one, or a part of one, is because of what it did to me. I was not naive, or inexperienced, in the 70s and 80s. However, everything about that day, including the hours before I succumbed to the Quaalude, is now blurry, confusing, and quite mysterious.
Considering my own experience with this drug, I can understand why these women might wait decades to report the abuse. I emerged from the effect of methaqualone puzzled and disheveled; busying myself with life, work, commitments, and responsibilities was a welcome relief from the incapacitating fog I had experienced. Dwelling on my “lost day” was uncomfortable. I felt very guilty for allowing myself to become a catatonic amnesiac.
Trying to explain my experience to someone else was, at the time, unnecessary. I was afraid of being called a “lightweight” by my peers. I was confused. It has taken decades for me to slow down mentally, in middle age, to reflect on that day.
Considering my own experience with this drug, I can understand why these women might wait decades to report the abuse. I emerged from the effect of methaqualone puzzled and disheveled; busying myself with life, work, commitments, and responsibilities was a welcome relief from the incapacitating fog I had experienced. Dwelling on my “lost day” was uncomfortable. I felt very guilty for allowing myself to become a catatonic amnesiac.
Trying to explain my experience to someone else was, at the time, unnecessary. I was afraid of being called a “lightweight” by my peers. I was confused. It has taken decades for me to slow down mentally, in middle age, to reflect on that day.
5
I cannot offer enough support and praise for Ms. Constand who despite her trauma, refused to allow this criminal, Bill, Seymour or fill in the blank, define her as victim. She refused, like the countless others, to be silenced and demanded his own words speak loud and clear. I am appalled at how our system allows for criminals to hide behind "sealed" testimony. It is evident he was/is a threat to society, so why give him the right to hide and continue to commit crimes. Because he has money? Someone show me the justice here, for I am so disgusted.
6
Hypothetically speaking, of course: Let's say he is indictable. What I also would want to see, hypothetically speaking, of course, is the revealing of the criminal enterprise involvement of others in this conspiracy of years and years that allowed Cosby to rape. Family? Friends? Neighbors? Business Associates? He had a lot of help and complicity and that help and complicity should be revealed.
8
Cosby is like so many other celebrities who are well perceived based on their public persona but in their lives away from the limelight they have feet of clay.
Cosby is a hypocrite of the highest order. He preaches to the public about morality yet in his own life he is highly immoral. He is a serial adulterer, a liar and a rapist who drugged unsuspecting women so he could have his way with them when they were incapacitated.
I hope that the women he raped get justice and that Cosby gets the punishment he deserves, which would be spending the rest of his life in prison.
Cosby is a hypocrite of the highest order. He preaches to the public about morality yet in his own life he is highly immoral. He is a serial adulterer, a liar and a rapist who drugged unsuspecting women so he could have his way with them when they were incapacitated.
I hope that the women he raped get justice and that Cosby gets the punishment he deserves, which would be spending the rest of his life in prison.
4
I don't condone Bill Cosby's behavoir, largely because I don't know enough about it. I wasn't there, I don't know the context. There are two sides to every story, and it's not the job of a newspaper to take sides in a case like this. What I find really weird about the NY Times presentation of this story, is the picture they dug up of Andrea Constandt. It's dated 1987, at least 13 years before she met Bill Cosby as defined by the NY Times as "the early 2000's". It seems a bit shady to me to publish a picture of the woman in 1987, while Cosby's picture is dated 2014. Subliminal pushing of the lecherous old man meme?
7
There is something terribly wrong with a system in which rich, powerful men can buy the silence of victims of rape and assault. Giving quaaludes to someone without their knowledge is a serious assault. Using drugs to incapacitate someone in order to rape them should result in increased sentences much like firearms possession does for certain crimes.
Mr. Cosby has been preaching his own brand of morality to young black men who have spent far too much time in jail for crimes that pale in comparison to his own. He belongs in a cage.
Mr. Cosby has been preaching his own brand of morality to young black men who have spent far too much time in jail for crimes that pale in comparison to his own. He belongs in a cage.
6
Bill Cosby always gave me the creeps. I remember as a little kid growing up in the seventies thinking there was something fake and unnerving about his manner. I have no idea what the women he managed to bring into his orbit saw in him besides fame and money. That said, they evidently were treated horribly by him and deserve to be heard and compensated as victims of his abuse.
3
The legal issue is that of "consent." Although lawyers learn all about consent in law school and from case law, many intentionally (and unintentionally) conflate consent to a date or taking painkiller with consent to sex while under the influence of a drug that makes consent impossible. Consent only occurs when there is voluntary, fully conscious agreement to do a particular thing. Because some women took drugs that Cosby said would make them feel better did NOT amount to "consent" to any of the following: taking drugs that were more powerful or different than Cosby described to the women; having some form of sexual contact with Cosby while under the influence of a drug; or having some form of sexual contact with Cosby while unconscious.
6
Will his defenders ever change their tune, even in the light of this latest convincing evidence? Probably not. I suspect the likes of Whoopie Goldberg will continue issues denials on behalf of their heroes.
3
So much for the "art of seduction" if alcohol and drugs and thought to be needed to be sexually intimate with another person. For a person with a persona of much self-confidence in addition to the fame and fortune seems to be a contradiction....
Shouldn't we nominate Bill Cosby for an Oscar now? Woody Allen and Roman Polanski allegedly and admittedly seduced underage women and we hail them as artistic geniuses. Why do they get a pass?
It's easy to sit behind a device and the ironic magnitude of our moral inconsistencies.
It's easy to sit behind a device and the ironic magnitude of our moral inconsistencies.
3
There are several differences among these three cases, and if you're truly interested in justice for victims of rape you should understand that the distinctions are important.
There is no space to parse this properly, but the Woody Allen case really has no business being mentioned here. It's one accusation from a source who has been discredited by her own siblings, and there are ulterior motives. There's also the matter of degree - one versus 47. There are many better examples of Cosby-like behavior in Hollywood.
Like Polanski. I think it's disgusting that he's been shielded from coming to the US to face trial.
Allen notwithstanding, you do have a point that there's an inconsistency here, a slight racist tinge to this story. Many white men in positions of power have committed the same crimes Cosby has and we'll never know about them.
There is no space to parse this properly, but the Woody Allen case really has no business being mentioned here. It's one accusation from a source who has been discredited by her own siblings, and there are ulterior motives. There's also the matter of degree - one versus 47. There are many better examples of Cosby-like behavior in Hollywood.
Like Polanski. I think it's disgusting that he's been shielded from coming to the US to face trial.
Allen notwithstanding, you do have a point that there's an inconsistency here, a slight racist tinge to this story. Many white men in positions of power have committed the same crimes Cosby has and we'll never know about them.
1
I like it when people we admire turn out to not be as admirable as we thought they were.
Apparently I'm an anomaly. I hold no particular admiration for those who are famous, rich or powerful. I have no illusions that they are anything but frail and flawed human beings, no different than any other ordinary person.
1
This is not sex when you drug a woman and then get off. This is an attack on a person. That Cosby could have dated these women multiple times and then may have had consensual relations which could be called sex.
1
Sorry folks, not guilty. "Womanizing" is not illegal. These attractive young models really couldn't figure out that Cosby was trying to get them into bed with his "mentorship"? And I have yet to see any claims of him forcing a quaalude down anyone's throat. No one "gets you" drunk or high. You drink or your take a drug if you choose to. Sounds to me like these women went along with the sex and drugs in hopes that Cosby would make them famous. When it didn't happen they looked back on it and decided they were molested. I'm not minimizing rape, but this ever expanding definition of it isn't helping anyone.
9
There are many accounts of the women not knowing that they were being drugged.
Start with Beverly Johnson
Start with Beverly Johnson
2
Apparently, you can't read. Most of the women who have charged Cosby did NOT consent to taking drugs, and they charge drugs were slipped into their drinks. Cosby's admission to having taken drugs with OTHER women in his depositions are different situations than those that required depositions in the first place. The woman in this article, Andrea Costand, is not a model -- she was in college athletics and higher education.
1
My reading is fine. The article says they had intimate dinners at his home with Cognac, dim lights, etc. Whether or not she was aware of what pills she was taking, we'll never know. But we do know she was an aspiring sportscaster, and she went on dates with him for his connections.
1
I'm normally against slamming people in the media for the mistakes they make in their personal lives. In this case, I think we need to slam Cosby repeatedly, everywhere, for his behavior. The world has too many other Cosbys in it right now. We have to do everything to make this stop. The patriarchy that continues to exist in America, despite so many efforts to battle it, is insidious.
5
I caught an inkling of how callous Cosby really was years ago watching him being interviewed at the Westminster Kennel Club dog show because he raised and showed wire haired fox terriers. When asked what he did with the pups that were not competition material he dismissively said, "I get rid of them." He was always so self important and humorless when being interviewed. An outsized ego. I can see how that could translate to lack of empathy for young women.
5
Bill Cosby is an actor. He may or may not be like the people he portrays while acting.
1
How is it that Cosby could essentially confess a crime 10 years ago and be completely unaccountable at the same time?
4
While I applaud the Times for publishing this, I'm not sure what it actually accomplishes, other than convincing people of Cosby's guilt who should have been convinced by now anyway (the words of 47 women who have nothing to gain by speaking out isn't enough for you?)
Actually it has accomplished one thing. Before reading this I was angry. Now I'm also really, really sad. There's really no way to reclaim his body of work, or any of his positive influence, after this. It's irrevocably tainted; it's gone.
Actually it has accomplished one thing. Before reading this I was angry. Now I'm also really, really sad. There's really no way to reclaim his body of work, or any of his positive influence, after this. It's irrevocably tainted; it's gone.
6
If BC was a woman who conducted and schemed all this, she would have probably been committed to a psych ward and jailed. He's a pompous pig.
4
Obviously, the guy is a slime ball and a sexual predator. I do wonder, however, how many knew what was going on but were hoping for stardom.
1
things we need to teach young people (not just women).
1. lovebombing is not love. just someone trying to hook you.
2. sex is not love. love is not sex.
3. age and power differences are risky, proceed with caution.
4. bring a third party if it's about your career.
5. do not have sex with married public figures. it never ends well.
6. do not trade sex for promises. it never ends well.
7. if it feels murky it probably is murky.
8. don't accept drinks or drugs at business meetings. or sex.
9. there are no shortcuts. earn what you want. owe nobody.
10. learn when to leave.
11. learn not to be too trusting. know and set your boundaries.
12. don't rely on being vulnerable. it only makes you vulnerable.
13. read Red Riding Hood. over and over. until you get it.
14. stop reading Cinderella.
15. if it feels too good to be true, it probably is.
16. learn the signs of a predator. recognize the Red Flags.
what else??
is this any different than the other day's article about lonely older women getting taken for their life savings? Predator 101. Lovebombing. It never ends well.
My heart aches for Mrs. Cosby. Exposing all this - reopening the wounds.
1. lovebombing is not love. just someone trying to hook you.
2. sex is not love. love is not sex.
3. age and power differences are risky, proceed with caution.
4. bring a third party if it's about your career.
5. do not have sex with married public figures. it never ends well.
6. do not trade sex for promises. it never ends well.
7. if it feels murky it probably is murky.
8. don't accept drinks or drugs at business meetings. or sex.
9. there are no shortcuts. earn what you want. owe nobody.
10. learn when to leave.
11. learn not to be too trusting. know and set your boundaries.
12. don't rely on being vulnerable. it only makes you vulnerable.
13. read Red Riding Hood. over and over. until you get it.
14. stop reading Cinderella.
15. if it feels too good to be true, it probably is.
16. learn the signs of a predator. recognize the Red Flags.
what else??
is this any different than the other day's article about lonely older women getting taken for their life savings? Predator 101. Lovebombing. It never ends well.
My heart aches for Mrs. Cosby. Exposing all this - reopening the wounds.
6
What in the world gives you the impression that any ordinary adult person needs such lessons? --that they don't already know that?
If your answer would be, these women who were tricked and exploited by Cosby, I would ask what makes you think they're telling the truth?
If your answer would be, these women who were tricked and exploited by Cosby, I would ask what makes you think they're telling the truth?
1
Isn't the real issue why would any decent man want to have sex with an incapacitated woman? Rather than telling women, as so many commenters do, that they can never, ever have a drink or smoke weed or let their guard down lest they be taken advantage of (aka raped), why can't men simply keep their zippers up? If a person can't control his sexual impulses, then perhaps that person should be kept away from society, and not women.
4
My knowledge of this matter is based solely on news reports. But, based on that information, I agree that Mr. Cosby acted stupidly, immorally, and recklessly. But, he is essentially just like former President Bill Clinton. He is a womanizer and not worthy of hero worship. But, his deposition testimony appears credible and quite candid. He states that he gave women drugs - but that they gave their consent to take them. I've seen no evidence to demonstrate that he gave these women drugs without their knowledge. I agree with President Obama, if he gave them drugs w/o their knowledge, then he committed a sex crime. But there is no evidence of that. Moreover, his behavior is being judged by standards that did not exist when the behavior took place
I grew up in the '70s and '80s. The standards of behavior for men were different. Be honest. Drugs were everywhere. Guy's bought women drinks at bars, for one reason: because they hoped to have a sexual encounter. Guys tried to get women to smoke dope, and yes, some guys also gave women "ludes." I am not saying that the behavior was appropriate. I now understand and agree that that behavior it is wrong. But back then, men were not judged that way. It was accepted as part of the dance men and women played.
Cosby and Clinton used their power and influence to satisfy their sex drive. In doing so, they acted reprehensibly. But, I've seen no evidence to indicate that he committed sexual crime.
I grew up in the '70s and '80s. The standards of behavior for men were different. Be honest. Drugs were everywhere. Guy's bought women drinks at bars, for one reason: because they hoped to have a sexual encounter. Guys tried to get women to smoke dope, and yes, some guys also gave women "ludes." I am not saying that the behavior was appropriate. I now understand and agree that that behavior it is wrong. But back then, men were not judged that way. It was accepted as part of the dance men and women played.
Cosby and Clinton used their power and influence to satisfy their sex drive. In doing so, they acted reprehensibly. But, I've seen no evidence to indicate that he committed sexual crime.
8
Many, many women have stated that they were given the drugs without their consent. Beverly Johnson for one.
His lawyer stopped that question at the deposition, had he not BC might well be in jail now. That was a very good lawyer.
It was always wrong to drug people, or even to spike their soft drinks . Even in the 70's. I was there too. Things were not so different , yes, more men got away with it. Now, people are starting to speak out
His lawyer stopped that question at the deposition, had he not BC might well be in jail now. That was a very good lawyer.
It was always wrong to drug people, or even to spike their soft drinks . Even in the 70's. I was there too. Things were not so different , yes, more men got away with it. Now, people are starting to speak out
3
Although I have not read every comment for this article, one point that most did not mention is how Cosby's actions is total disregard for his daughters perhaps more so than his wife...
I wonder if he ever thought, even once that what he was doing to these women other men could do the same to his daughters?
I wonder if he ever thought, even once that what he was doing to these women other men could do the same to his daughters?
6
Is he a sociopath? Possibly, but I am not a professional and perhaps without enough information to make that determination.
However someone who chooses to live an extremely immoral life, and then in the most public of ways, exert himself as an extreme moralist is, at the very least, an interesting chap.
However someone who chooses to live an extremely immoral life, and then in the most public of ways, exert himself as an extreme moralist is, at the very least, an interesting chap.
2
I couldn't care less about his promiscuity. His hypocrisy, however, is a different matter.
Promiscuity is with consent...Rape is non consenting!!!! Look it up in the dictionary...
1
We are lucky he didn't kill anyone. He was dosing these women with alcohol and quaaludes. How did he know that they did not have other downers in their system when they showed up for their night with the big Hollywood star? Think of all of the apparently healthy well-known people who have accidentally OD'd over the years (Heath Ledger, Jimi Hendrix). And then to just shove these woozy ladies into taxi cabs to get them out of his space, as he did to Beverly Johnson. So unbelievably dangerous, cruel, and sick. That Montgomery County prosecutor really screwed up in not putting Constand's case before a jury. Hopefully, another prosecutor will be able to make a case against him because Cos belongs in prison.
8
“If you give a woman — or a man, for that matter — without his or her knowledge, a drug, and then have sex with that person without consent, that’s rape”
11
Hey, women. When I look back at my younger days during the sexual revolution for women, I can, in fact, find so many experiences of men acting similar to Cosby. The manipulation, and while not drugged - the use of wine and seduction. I was innocent - really innocent - and could not tell the difference between who was simply using me and who really cared about me. I have been officially raped - a group of men - a violent attack - and a jail sentence for them. But there are so many cases of men who, looking back, raped me. I am sure that many women have had that experience. I grew disconnected as so many women - never quite understanding what was simply exploitation. Did I enjoy my great liberation? Not really. It left me disconnected from my body. I am sure this is the silent experience of many us. Bill Cosby is no different that far too many men who get away with this abuse of women. It is that too many of us women feel that we are somehow willing partners. We aren't. With all the open expression of sexuality, we are a culture so completely sexually disconnected.
12
We think we know people because we see them on TV in our homes. No matter how long we have had TV, we still don't seem to be able to make the distinction between acting and reality. We place inordinate value on being seen on TV, for ourselves and for others. This guy is a sleezeball. He was getting paid to act as a nice guy and, apparently, he did that very well. Turn off the camera and he is a sleezeball. If you think you know an actor, news anchor or athlete because of what you see on TV you are deluding yourself. It is ironic that he played a nice guy and isn't one...but not terribly surprising. Cash never equals class.
2
It's not inconceivable that some of the women entertained the idea of sleeping with Mr. Cosby to boost their aspiring or already established careers. This practice has gone on for as long as show-biz has existed. It is a moral decision the women have to consider when attempting to negotiate such a slippery slope.
The problem is that by drugging the women, Mr. Cosby eliminated their ability to reconsider at the last minute. We've all been there before. The English language is full of phrases to describe this moment. "Chickened out", "got cold feet", "came to my senses" and "decided at the eleventh hour" are just a few. Mr. Cosby made the conscious decision to tip the scales entirely in his favor at that eleventh hour by rendering his victims unconscious.
It is a basic tenet of law that important decisions are to be made when someone is of sound mind. The women were not afforded that opportunity.
The problem is that by drugging the women, Mr. Cosby eliminated their ability to reconsider at the last minute. We've all been there before. The English language is full of phrases to describe this moment. "Chickened out", "got cold feet", "came to my senses" and "decided at the eleventh hour" are just a few. Mr. Cosby made the conscious decision to tip the scales entirely in his favor at that eleventh hour by rendering his victims unconscious.
It is a basic tenet of law that important decisions are to be made when someone is of sound mind. The women were not afforded that opportunity.
5
I can`t understand all this hysteria about Cosby. The logic should be pretty simple - if he commited crimes he should be punished accordingly. If he`s found innocent then let him go. Why does nobody do anything?
2
The problem is that the statute of limitations has passed. If law enforcement and the public had believed some of the earlier allegations, investigated them, and then tried him, it would be a different situation. Instead, Cosby was allowed to use his money and power to silence them, the public and law enforcement turned turned a blind eye. Thus there can be no trials, except in the case of the (at this point, I think, lone?) accuser who was underage at the time. So there are only civil trials that can go forward unless more underage victims now come forward. It is not as simple as "if he is found innocent them let him go." Had law enforcement and the broader society listened earlier at the time of some of the early allegations, the situation would be different. Had the friends and associates around him, who surely knew what was going on, supported the early victims, Cosby might have ended up in prison. He would not have been able to continue his criminal pursuits, harming still more victims.
2
Sure, it ought to be logical. But to understand the "hysteria" you're wondering about, consider that this pattern of behavior goes back decades, encompasses many women (and likely dozens beyond the ones already known), involves issues of consent (or lack thereof), and is something Mr. Cosby has never truly answered for. Or answered, period - that's why the contents of this deposition are capturing this much attention. The public is encountering Cosby's own words for the first time. No longer is it "he said, she said."
Furthermore, criminal charges would be tough - the statute of limitations has expired for many of the cases. But civil action can be undertaken by the victims.
He cannot be "let go." He's been "free" the whole time (free to scold others while getting away with his own offenses). And it would be impossible, I suspect, for him to be charged criminally at this point. Hopefully, however, the release of this disturbing information will help the many women who have accused him, in the event they file a civil lawsuit - and as a vindication.
Furthermore, criminal charges would be tough - the statute of limitations has expired for many of the cases. But civil action can be undertaken by the victims.
He cannot be "let go." He's been "free" the whole time (free to scold others while getting away with his own offenses). And it would be impossible, I suspect, for him to be charged criminally at this point. Hopefully, however, the release of this disturbing information will help the many women who have accused him, in the event they file a civil lawsuit - and as a vindication.
1
Where is is wife what does she have to say or feel?
She probably would lose a lot of money, so she better be quiet.
Was she also involved in raping and drugging these women? From what I read, these young women (who knew of his marital status) met Bill Cosby in his home evenings/nights when his wife wasn't there. They were happy to conduct their "mentoring meetings" then without the wifes knowledge...so why should the wife be dragged into this mess now???
Revoke the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Bill Cosby Petition
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/revoke-presidential-medal-fre...
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/revoke-presidential-medal-fre...
5
More Lance Armstrong and Bill Cosby stories in 48 hours. Geez - where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
5
Understanding how serial sexual abusers conduct themselves is key to understanding why now is the time for every state to examine and reform their statutes of limitations. We must start with addressing arcane and arbitrary statutes of limitations of child sexual abuse which protect the abuser and hurt the victim. Legislation needs to be enacted which removes criminal and civil statutes of limitations for sex offenses that occurred when the victim was under 18 years of age. "Window" legislation needs to be passed into law which opens a specified duration in which civil claims that would have been barred, can be brought forward. The United States Senate and House of Representatives need to be encouraged to pass into law a bill which will incentivize states to adopt statues of limitation reform. Bill Cosby's actions will serve to inform and change public policy and make much needed changes to our legal system.
8
Yes - I have never understood why there were statutes of limitations for sexual assault crimes. Even more so now that there is a better understanding of how power relations and memory can affect when one is ready and able to speak out and make charges.
2
None of those victims were under 18 years of age.
You can enact all the legislation you want but it won't help protect people who are hell bent on playing russian roulette in their quest for fame. Yes, the first five married mentors who invite you for dinner at their home might be ok, but then you run into Bill Cosby on your sixth trip...
People like Bill Cosby get away with it because they prey on fame hungry women who ignore red flags because they're looking for shortcuts to wealth. There's no shortage of them in Hollywood...
You can enact all the legislation you want but it won't help protect people who are hell bent on playing russian roulette in their quest for fame. Yes, the first five married mentors who invite you for dinner at their home might be ok, but then you run into Bill Cosby on your sixth trip...
People like Bill Cosby get away with it because they prey on fame hungry women who ignore red flags because they're looking for shortcuts to wealth. There's no shortage of them in Hollywood...
1
While some good arguments can be forwarded on their behalf (including the impact on memory and loss of evidence as time wears on), this is indeed an area of the law where statutes of limitation laws should be looked at with an eye to meaningful reform. Perhaps assessments can and should be made on a case by case basis once a certain threshold is crossed with regards to credibility of evidence and testimony. Sexual assualt as well as other areas could use similar review, e.g., cases of wrongful death, or wrongful termination of employment; in fact, any area where real trauma is involved and thus may be sustained for long durations. I'd include varieties of PTSD and depression. In such mattters, the wronged party may not recover the real personal agency required to act in their own best interests within the currently proscribed statutes of limitations periods. This becomes even more difficult when power, money, privilege of the offender and fear of shaming of the victim enter into the equation.
I've read dozens of comments thus far that seem to be doing some victim-blaming to varying degrees. I think everyone can agree that it is never wise, under any circumstances, to take a medication offered by someone who seems to hold virtually all the power in a relationship. Nor is it wise to give that person the benefit of the doubt just because he or she is powerful, famous, well-liked, and quick to flatter you.
However, is it so difficult for people to see the level of grooming Bill Cosby appears to have engaged in over many decades? His actions and attitude strike me as being sickeningly familiar to anyone who has even minimal knowledge of how predators often operate. He held the upper hand completely, and often could deploy his charm, power, and public persona to his advantage with quick results. For women who may not have been perceived as equals but who did have personal success and preexisting security in herself, he seems to have groomed them ever so carefully, until they seem not to have personal agency.
It is all too easy to think of predators who groom as being limited to vulnerable child victims; we like to imagine that adult women, especially ones who are accomplished in their own right, wouldn't be susceptible to the likes of Cosby. Sadly, the more we learn about him, the more it appears he knew how to manipulate them shockingly well, with tragic results.
However, is it so difficult for people to see the level of grooming Bill Cosby appears to have engaged in over many decades? His actions and attitude strike me as being sickeningly familiar to anyone who has even minimal knowledge of how predators often operate. He held the upper hand completely, and often could deploy his charm, power, and public persona to his advantage with quick results. For women who may not have been perceived as equals but who did have personal success and preexisting security in herself, he seems to have groomed them ever so carefully, until they seem not to have personal agency.
It is all too easy to think of predators who groom as being limited to vulnerable child victims; we like to imagine that adult women, especially ones who are accomplished in their own right, wouldn't be susceptible to the likes of Cosby. Sadly, the more we learn about him, the more it appears he knew how to manipulate them shockingly well, with tragic results.
4
Hey Erin, The women weren't offered a "medication", they were secretly drugged by this guy. Do you understand the difference?
1
Bill Cosby is the victim here.
Bill Cosby belongs to a minority group that is LOATHED....that group is NOT African Americans: It is sex addicts. Sadly, there is little awareness of and help for sex addiction in our society. And the richer and more powerful the sex addict is, the more likely he is to evade diagnosis and help and experience shame and loathing with the truth inevitably comes out. Look what happened to Tiger Woods.
There really is help for sex addicts but the mental health community has misunderstood this disease and has miserably failed those who suffer from it.
So all this loathing for Mr. Cosby makes me feel kind of sick. The man obviously has a problem and need help and compassion.
There really is help for sex addicts but the mental health community has misunderstood this disease and has miserably failed those who suffer from it.
So all this loathing for Mr. Cosby makes me feel kind of sick. The man obviously has a problem and need help and compassion.
2
I don't know how any criminal or civil suits might work out, but Mr. Cosby has already lost his reputation and credibility. Justifiably so, it seems.
1
He may be unappetizing, but where's the criminal behavior?
2
Slipping drugs to unsuspecting women and having sex with them while they are under the influence is not criminal behavior?
3
This is not the person I thought I knew (from afar).
From "I Spy" to the 'delete' button, 50 years of a lie.
From "I Spy" to the 'delete' button, 50 years of a lie.
2
Cosby, clearly, had one goal in mind — to Eliminate the only other Witness to the crime.
He knew that he could count on himself to keep his secrets, but he had much too much at stake to trust a stranger. And so, he applied a pharma-blindfold.
A criminal variation on: If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Yes. It very much Does.
He knew that he could count on himself to keep his secrets, but he had much too much at stake to trust a stranger. And so, he applied a pharma-blindfold.
A criminal variation on: If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Yes. It very much Does.
10
Rather than continuing to stand by her man as Tammy Wynette sung, Camille Cosby should, in the remaining years of her life, become THE spokesperson against rape, date rape and drug rape.
5
Why should she have to atone for her husbands sins? She hasn't been accused of raping or drugging anyone. From what I've read, Bill and the victims colluded to meet in her absence.
1
One reason this is news, likely the only reason, is because he is a major celebrity.
I'm realistic, and have to say there are thousands upon thousands, worldwide, who have done, and are doing this kind of immoral activity, each and every day.
As I said in an earlier post, this is the behavior of an individual, who sees no value in adherence to generally accepted mores, customs that developed over time to allow human-kind to reasonably exist together in a peaceful way.
We are never far from reverting to our base animalistic nature.
I'm realistic, and have to say there are thousands upon thousands, worldwide, who have done, and are doing this kind of immoral activity, each and every day.
As I said in an earlier post, this is the behavior of an individual, who sees no value in adherence to generally accepted mores, customs that developed over time to allow human-kind to reasonably exist together in a peaceful way.
We are never far from reverting to our base animalistic nature.
1
These younger women had voluntary relationships with him for years, often with no intercourse, often with him giving them money, often using the party drugs of the time, and now they say they were "molested."
What do they call what they did?
What do they call what they did?
5
There is good scholarship, very good studies on the ways in which predators, whether of young women or of children, seek out victims (find the person is missing a parent, has had a tragedy, has fewer protectors around), then lays a long, sometimes very slow, trap to ensnare them. Look at the way in which Cosby used a father's death from cancer to further his pursuit of a young woman. That is classic predator behavior. He convinced others whom he was "mentoring" that they appeared "stressed out" or "anxious" and then pushed them to take a (mild) pill or have a drink to calm them down - and then drugged them with stronger drinks and medications. Or simply offered them a drink, but the drink was spiked. Again, classic predator. Crime. Rape.
This was pretty much the celebrity and rock star culture of the 70s and 80s. (Though Cosby may be a rarity in that his groupies were actually legal adults). Why is he being singled out by the Social Justice Warriors?
4
Cosby should be in jail. But what's up with these women? Why this driving need to be actresses and models that they would seek counsel from this deviant?
3
For those asking did he commit a crime, the answer is yes: he gave prescription drugs on his name to his would be conquests. I believe in the case of quaaludes this would be a felony. And given his intent in giving his prescriptions - to break down the recipients' resistance to have sex with him - most fact finders would be well on their way to concluding aggravating circumstances and yes, probably rape.
4
In reading through these comments, it's disheartening to realize that men and women seem to think what Cosby did is ok. Did he give them a pill? Did he mix it up in their drinks? Did they know they were being drugged?
Bottom line: there are enough (and probably more than haven't spoken up) that say the same thing. This is a man who must have enjoyed drugging these young girls to have sex with them. I took Qualudes back in the 70's, but always at my own choosing; I know how they make you feel when they're ingested. Too many women who claim he gave them a drink, and knocked them out, to me, says that Cosby didn't just "offer" a pill. I don't have much doubt about the way he served their "drinks." Drinks with drugs. What a sad excuse for a man Cosby is.
Bottom line: there are enough (and probably more than haven't spoken up) that say the same thing. This is a man who must have enjoyed drugging these young girls to have sex with them. I took Qualudes back in the 70's, but always at my own choosing; I know how they make you feel when they're ingested. Too many women who claim he gave them a drink, and knocked them out, to me, says that Cosby didn't just "offer" a pill. I don't have much doubt about the way he served their "drinks." Drinks with drugs. What a sad excuse for a man Cosby is.
10
Thank you NYT for such an in depth article, The LA Times would never have the courage in a company town like Los Angeles. Kudos.
6
I'm not really seeing the criminal act here of rape? As far as giving women "date rape" drugs, he admits to consensual giving of drugs, as far as what a date rape drug is, I think that's a pretty modern understanding. I'm not aware Quaaludes ever qualified as that, it was extremely popular in the 70's and used recreationally, as common as pot almost. He is a cad, a womanizer, his manipulation of women is pretty despicable but we can't start making it a crime to be a jerk. I think old men who aggressively pursue attractive younger women are setting themselves up for this type of accusation, celebrities especially. Once the infatuation of hanging out with a celebrity, or some rich guy wears off and you realize you're just gave it up to some super creepy old guy and you feel used I imagine it can do a number on your self worth, as well as cause anger and confusion about what just happened. It's puzzling how some men work this way, it's creepy and odd to have to work so hard to get a woman to have sex with you.
9
Maybe your confusion arises from a challenge with distinguishing assertions (such as "no," "yes") from questions or tentative statements (such as your opening sentence, in which you present what should be a declarative, constative assertion as a question.
He often gave them drugs in drinks *without their knowledge or consent* with the specific goal of having sex with them, sex to *which they were incapable of giving consent.* Then he raped them. That is a crime.
2
Many Hollywood icons have been jerks.
Some have probably even committed crimes.
How typical it is that we Americans are fixated on an entertainment personality, about whose actions long ago we really can't every know the truth.
But it takes out mind off ISIS and terrorist attacks in Tennessee and South Carolina!
And most Americans actually think entertainment and sport stories ARE the most important news.
Some have probably even committed crimes.
How typical it is that we Americans are fixated on an entertainment personality, about whose actions long ago we really can't every know the truth.
But it takes out mind off ISIS and terrorist attacks in Tennessee and South Carolina!
And most Americans actually think entertainment and sport stories ARE the most important news.
2
Enough with Bill Cosby! This is front page news for the NY times?? I get it. Cosby is despicable, a scoundrel, and a louse. Not to defend Cosby, but we can say the same things about many rich and famous men-- our presidents (FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton), our politicians, our Hollywood actors, and of course athletes. Nothing like a slow news day to put fodder on the front page.
7
Having worked in the entertainment industry, I can say without a doubt that these situations come up and you learn after the first time someone asks you to their room. Women in entertainment need to act responsibly. If the talent invites you to their room or to dinner, it is because they want to have sex. People have sex and people do drugs and people do drugs have sex. I'm sure Mr. Cosby was not the only man in Hollywood to behave this way he simply got caught and now everyone he slept with wants a check. Did the women behave irresponsibly as well? Drinking with a married actor and hoping he will "mentor" you is still not a wise choice no matter how old you are or how far along in your career you may be. Respect yourself enough to ask for a lunch meeting and ask to bring your agent/manager/lawyer along.
16
Cosby did not have to bring alcohol or drugs---------------
he only had to bring a very RICH and powerful entertainer to the party!
he only had to bring a very RICH and powerful entertainer to the party!
Yes, but he took this to what appears to be a non-consensual and criminal level. That's the issue here, as well as his complete hypocrisy.
So the deposition was supposed to have been sealed, and everyone assumed it had been…is that right? One wonders how often this happens.
2
One wonders how journalists missed this one.why didn't they find this if it were available from the get-go?
I did not get the impression from the article that the deposition was supposed to have been sealed--just the other document. I think this is a bit unclear at the least.
I did not get the impression from the article that the deposition was supposed to have been sealed--just the other document. I think this is a bit unclear at the least.
2
Bill Cosby is a predator of women. My question is, as a woman, what did these women expect to get from having a relationship with this man? This wasn't drugs and rape from some stranger in a dark alley. He was well known to all of these women and they wanted something from him. The price they paid to get that something was not worth it. To all you women out there, beware of charming, famous, married men, who go after you, they aren't who you think they are.
8
They did not ALL have RELATIONSHIPS with Cosby. Only a couple of them did. Show business is a BUSINESS, and most of these were set up as business meetings, several of them were arranged by the talent agents who represented these girls. And they were GIRLS at the time. They did not ACCEPT drugs or WILLINGLY take drugs from Cosby. He slipped them into their drinks.
And thank you victim blamers and shamers for helping these victims build their defamation case against Cosby.
And thank you victim blamers and shamers for helping these victims build their defamation case against Cosby.
2
The good new is that he will now suffer on earth. It has already stated, so be attentive to justice based on karma...
3
Does this not point out a serious flaw in our legal system? That he admitted to all this in a deposition years ago, and through a deal it was sealed and kept secret, is BIZARRE. Can someone explain to me what the benefit is of admitting the truth in a legal deposition but then be allowed to deny it publicly over and over when so many others accuse you of the same crime? I understand not encouraging a mob mentality if one is innocent, but he admitted to this behavior, with an audible shrug. Why does our system allow this?
8
He did not admit to raping anyone. Quaaludes were a popular sex drugs used by many people in the 70s.
2
Excellent point.
I posted comments previously but don't see that it made the cut; not sure why. Irrespective, I am glad to see that some readers agree that there has not been any evidence to date demonstrating that Cosby raped anyone. And, as many readers are noting, many of the accusers are far from credible.
2
You do understand that testiminy is evidence, right?
1
To me, he would just be another famous rich guy who took advantage of women, were it not for the fact that for over a decade, he has been lecturing to America on how black families need to be better parents and more middle-class. Turns out, he is a major hypocrite who preached morality while acting like a tomcat.
11
Oh how the "mighty" do fall...the sexual misconduct of Cosby is bad enough, but the indifference he exhibits, the disturbing comments about those sexual encounters years ago, not to mention his unrelenting self-interest, trouble me even more...can we say narcissism?
My prayers go out to all of those women who were humiliated and devalued, with no where to go, and for so many years...all in the name of celebrity.
My prayers go out to all of those women who were humiliated and devalued, with no where to go, and for so many years...all in the name of celebrity.
14
RE: "It (deposition) details his calculated pursuit of young women, using fame and drugs.
Sounds more like gold diggers' calculated pursuit of Cosby for fame and wealth did not pay off hence the lawsuits. Would these women have thrown themselves at Cosby had he not been rich and famous?
Sounds more like gold diggers' calculated pursuit of Cosby for fame and wealth did not pay off hence the lawsuits. Would these women have thrown themselves at Cosby had he not been rich and famous?
6
This is disgusting as is Cosby's behavior. Somehow this sort of thing goes on all the time, with sports figures, in government, at the cabinet level, in the ministry, and it doesn't seem to get on the front page above the fold of the New York Times. These women were not helpless like chiorboys and this was one man among thousands, probably hundreds of thousands who perpetrated horrible acts. Will it do any good to hound Cosby over it? I don't think it will change men and their impulses. It doesn't seem to change women much either.
5
Truth eventually comes out and when it does it often ugly.
3
I don't know why so many people are focusing on the legality of his behavior. Isn't it enough to say that he took advantage of these young women after holding himself out as a moralist?
15
If he was not Bill Cosby, he would be in jail.
14
If he wasn't Bill Cosby none of those women would have been interested in him in the first place! I'm a woman who's struggling to understand who on earth accepts multiple invitations for late night intimate dinners at a married "mentors" home. Who allows the married mentor to pay their rent, fly them around the world, get them jobs and then acts surprised to find out it wasn't their mind he wasn't interested in.
2
When these accusations first came out most people dismissed the women because we all wanted to believe Bill Cosby and Cliff Huxtable were the same person. We loved the idea of the family man who by TV standards was smart, loving, kind, faithful--perfect husband and father.
But Cosby and Huxtable are not the same person. Bill Cosby was not playing himself.
If Bill Cosby's early standup routine is autobiographical to any extent and the relationship with his father was as painful as he described it it is not surprising that Cosby would behave in such a twisted and mentally unstable manner.
Cosby needs help. I hope he uses some of his wealth to get it. Hopefully he'll have something after he settles with all the women he drugged and raped to care for himself.
But Cosby and Huxtable are not the same person. Bill Cosby was not playing himself.
If Bill Cosby's early standup routine is autobiographical to any extent and the relationship with his father was as painful as he described it it is not surprising that Cosby would behave in such a twisted and mentally unstable manner.
Cosby needs help. I hope he uses some of his wealth to get it. Hopefully he'll have something after he settles with all the women he drugged and raped to care for himself.
8
How about funneling future Cosby royalties ( if there are any) to victims of Cosby's actions?
9
Trial Lawyers everywhere are applauding your comment.
2
Bill Cosby- A Man, a male, base, simple, driven by the innate male desire to conquer, in every way, sexual included, ignoring modern and generally accepted mores, customs for the most part, customs that were imposed in an effort to hold in check the animalistic nature of the human male.
Fortunately, for mankind, most have acquiesced, and become the current definition of "civilized", although it can be argued that given the worldwide fascination with violence, mankind is essentially always on the edge of reverting to its original way of being, which is fight, conquer, pillage, rape, and subjugate.
Truth, we try so hard to avoid it, the unpleasant kind in particular.
Fortunately, for mankind, most have acquiesced, and become the current definition of "civilized", although it can be argued that given the worldwide fascination with violence, mankind is essentially always on the edge of reverting to its original way of being, which is fight, conquer, pillage, rape, and subjugate.
Truth, we try so hard to avoid it, the unpleasant kind in particular.
6
Well at least we all know now that Bill Cosby had/has low self-esteem of himself. Why else would he use drugs and alcohol to seduce woman? One would think that his public persona would be enough. I guess in the end, it was all just an act - both his public and private lives.
56
"Why else would he use drugs and alcohol to seduce women?"
Didn't we see the use of drugs and alcohol to seduce woman a common theme via Mad Men? We have songs, movies, plays, etc., where this is par for the the course. We live in a culture where this is prevalent, regardless of one's public or private persona.
Didn't we see the use of drugs and alcohol to seduce woman a common theme via Mad Men? We have songs, movies, plays, etc., where this is par for the the course. We live in a culture where this is prevalent, regardless of one's public or private persona.
Maybe he has such high self-esteem (of the sociopathic kind) that he thinks he's God's gift to women....and that it's a lot more fun to have sex with them when they're defenseless than to have consensual sex.
Why else? Two possible reasons, both related to the property of that drug to cause amnesia: (1) he doesn't want the victim to remember the event and accuse him of rape and (2) he doesn't want the victim to remember the intercourse and fall in love with him (his theory, not mine).
I am surprised by a lot of the reaction to this article. Cosby comes across as a conniving predator who used his great wealth and power to manipulate more vulnerable women. I feel a bit stupid quoting a comic book character, but I agree the saying 'with great power comes great responsibility'. Cosby abused his celebrity and hopefully is now paying some price, if only to his reputation. I don't know how a person can be at peace with themselves when they have apparently caused so much pain in others.
17
Prior to Bill Clinton's presidency there was a lot of talk and discussion about how a female in a position off less authority than a male in position of authority was not capable of having a non-coerced relationship with that male. By definition it was at a minimum abuse.
But that all seems to have gone away since the days of the VRWC. Now we have commenters here calling Cosby a "dirty old man".
Sounds like we are back to go old American core values.
But that all seems to have gone away since the days of the VRWC. Now we have commenters here calling Cosby a "dirty old man".
Sounds like we are back to go old American core values.
2
I wonder if Camilla Cosby has any interest in reading the deposition. Until now she has claimed her husband's victims are opportunists. As stunning as Mr. Cosby's public denials and counterattacks, is Mrs. Cosby believing that with all this smoke there can be no fire.
13
We need to find a way to talk about rape without including the phrase
"had sex with..." It is not possible to have sex "with" an unresponsive or
unwilling person, including child or animal.
"had sex with..." It is not possible to have sex "with" an unresponsive or
unwilling person, including child or animal.
23
Yes, also "sexual assault" is a phrase that needs an update with removal of "sex". Rape is a violent act about power. Though more succinct terms, ie "destruction/violation/annihilation of human body, spirit, and soul which endures long past the physical crime" seem a bit long somehow. I'd love a short succinct term we use to replace "sexual assault". Suggestions?
1
We continue to expect celebrities to be these mythical heroes that can do no wrong, and are shocked and dismayed when they do. Bill Cosby was not the ideal husband and father. He only played one on TV.
80
Celebrities are only human at the end of the day. And all humans are flawed. Mythical heroes only belong in fantasy stories. "Use the force Luke!"
1
All o' y'all who question whether the women were raped don't get it. There was a HUGE power differential between the women and Cosby. It was on him to balance the power before sex. Making an end-run by doping the women is a coward's way out. He was too lazy to do it the right way.
2
Bill Clinton was not the ideal husband and father. He only played one on TV.
2
His deposition testimony demonstrates that, despite his rationalizations, Bill Cosby wasn't a womanizer - he was a sociopathic predator. We are avoiding the truth about his behavior by looking for the sexual content, and asking if the women knew him as a friend, reported the incidents in a timely manner or (unbelievably) consented to take quaaludes and other knockout drugs.
This wasn't sex. These were assaults, perpetrated by a crafty, manipulative, amoral sick man. He should be in prison. End of story,
This wasn't sex. These were assaults, perpetrated by a crafty, manipulative, amoral sick man. He should be in prison. End of story,
36
The article has a tawdry and salacious tone that is unsupported by any facts from the deposition.
8
I'm a man who likes women, and lusts after women, and your interpretation puzzles me. The deposition itself reads about as tawdry, and salacious, and - to my mind - reprehensible, as can be.
1
Maybe there will be more aggressive legal action against him when we all come out of our collective "celebrity coma"—the rich and famous are better than us, right? I think also of the umpteen scuffles that P. Diddy has had since his rise to fame and he comes out whistle clean! Kiefer Sutherland, and a host of other "idols". That people are still defending this serial sex offender, especially after this revelation, reveals more about them than it does about "the Cos".
8
Poxy scoundrel in the house. The relevant conversation today includes a study in the continuum of character: from Elin Nordegren (Tiger Woods) to the Camilles, Hillarys and 'Mrs.' Lettermans/Lauers among us.
2
Setting aside the personal side of Bill Cosby, his public persona has had a net positive effect upon American society. Everyone has their personal, behind closed doors lives; it's part of the human condition. It's the drama, desires and consequences associated with the drudgery of everyday living that we keep out of the public eye. Monsters reside in us all. Having said that Mr. Cosby used his public persona to fulfill his personal desires, a clear violation of the public trust. Where the rule of law is enforceable, it should be. In the meantime Mr. Cosby should retire from the public view and dialogue.
36
Could you please explain how Bill Cosby's "...public persona has had a net positive effect upon American Society?" What are you talking about? Please be specific.
It must have been clear to his agents, producers, directors, cast members, etc. what he was doing and no one said anything. You can't bite the hand(s) that feed you.
8
The arrogance and delusion of Bill Cosby to believe he can "read" signals of women who want him and yet has to slip them a drug to have sex with them.
21
The man is a hypocrite, an ugly, arrogant, lying, privileged snob. Many of today's so-called "celebrities" are exactly the same. He just got started earlier.
And aren't we all fools for falling for his endless deception? Just as we are fools if we believe today's "celebrities" are anything to celebrate.
And aren't we all fools for falling for his endless deception? Just as we are fools if we believe today's "celebrities" are anything to celebrate.
19
Alas, it is not so simple. Some years ago, there was a young woman sitting in my living room. I walked up to her and kissed her. I did not ask for permission. We have now been together for 48 years.
Certainly Cosby's behavior is out of bounds. Cheating on your wife is not acceptable in my book. But note that MLK also did it and so did Bill Clinton.
As for the other charges. Statutory rape is not rape, it is voluntary sex with someone who is not old enough to give intelligent consent. Having sex with someone who is sleeping is not "assault". It is sex without consent.
We have all got into the habit of hyping up language to introduce words like rape and assault where milder terms are appropriate. And then we levy punishments appropriate to our inflated language rather than to the facts.
Some years ago, a young woman I know went through an emotional crisis. Cosby who knew the young woman through the friend of a friend took both the young woman and her mother out to dinner and was very comforting. He made no sexual overtures.
Would I like to see Cosby in prison? Probably yes, but for three months, no more and no less. And let any financial claims against him be limited to 100K. Large awards are a standing temptation to tell lies, or to exaggerate what happened.
Certainly Cosby's behavior is out of bounds. Cheating on your wife is not acceptable in my book. But note that MLK also did it and so did Bill Clinton.
As for the other charges. Statutory rape is not rape, it is voluntary sex with someone who is not old enough to give intelligent consent. Having sex with someone who is sleeping is not "assault". It is sex without consent.
We have all got into the habit of hyping up language to introduce words like rape and assault where milder terms are appropriate. And then we levy punishments appropriate to our inflated language rather than to the facts.
Some years ago, a young woman I know went through an emotional crisis. Cosby who knew the young woman through the friend of a friend took both the young woman and her mother out to dinner and was very comforting. He made no sexual overtures.
Would I like to see Cosby in prison? Probably yes, but for three months, no more and no less. And let any financial claims against him be limited to 100K. Large awards are a standing temptation to tell lies, or to exaggerate what happened.
7
Sex without consent is rape. Having sex with someone who cannot "give intelligent consent" is rape.
There is a continuum of permission and you seem confused as to where a person can overstep the bounds of consensual sex from flirting . Strong language is needed to describe a violation for people like you who do not understand how a woman can be violated. The president of the United States had to come out and say that giving drugs to someone without their consent and having sex with them is rape. He said it clearly and concisely for people who have the "fuzzies" as to what rape is.
There is a continuum of permission and you seem confused as to where a person can overstep the bounds of consensual sex from flirting . Strong language is needed to describe a violation for people like you who do not understand how a woman can be violated. The president of the United States had to come out and say that giving drugs to someone without their consent and having sex with them is rape. He said it clearly and concisely for people who have the "fuzzies" as to what rape is.
5
Kissing someone without permission and drugging her so she becomes incapable, then raping her, are two very different things. And, sorry, but it IS that simple. You're wrong about a lot of things, most disturbingly, about the definition of rape. http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-rev...
2
Indeed, inflated vocabularies are very American. I believe America is the only country which uses the word "great" when any other nation would use the word "good" or even "satisfactory."
It is this attitude of inflation, combined with its companion "zero tolerance" which has led to millions of Americans being imprisoned for non-violent crimes. And money being spent on the prisons is decreasing what we can spend on education and on fixing our infrastructure.
It is inflation which led us to convert 9-11 into an expensive adventure in Iraq. And no, it wasn't JUST Bush's fault. Mrs. Clinton also voted for military action against Iraq. Inflated responses are very American.
Let Cosby be punished, but let the punishment be proportionate for a man who has contributed to many happy hours for millions of Americans.
It is this attitude of inflation, combined with its companion "zero tolerance" which has led to millions of Americans being imprisoned for non-violent crimes. And money being spent on the prisons is decreasing what we can spend on education and on fixing our infrastructure.
It is inflation which led us to convert 9-11 into an expensive adventure in Iraq. And no, it wasn't JUST Bush's fault. Mrs. Clinton also voted for military action against Iraq. Inflated responses are very American.
Let Cosby be punished, but let the punishment be proportionate for a man who has contributed to many happy hours for millions of Americans.
2
When I was in college in the mid-1980's, I saw a Cosby program on tv where he visited an elementary school. He sat in the library with little children gathered around him and he told the tale of the Wiggly Wigglies and the Woogly Wooglies. The children shrieked with delight as this charming and loving man carried them away with laughter. I yearned for that gift and soon after started a teaching career of 30 years where I hope I was valuable to those around me in a similar way. It remains the tragedy of mankind that great gifts and great monstrosities exist within the same soul.
150
I remember something similar, from around the early 70s, where Cosby was filmed interacting with young children and -well, I don't quite remember the story that you mentioned but I do remember him, w/the kids sitting all around him, having them say, in unison, that they were "Afro-Americans" -this was a kind of early self-esteem-building exercise. I think I saw it on TV somewhere when I was a lot younger -on what network and in what context, I cannot remember. Not that that really changes anything about these revelations coming out: what he's really done is to undermine all the moralizing which, looking back on it now, seems like just a kind of "cover story" for what he's really all about.
1
Cosby's sanctimonious wrist slapping of young, black men over the years - Chris Rock, hip hop artists - as though he actually were his Huxtable character, seems all the more bizarre in light of how he was actually conducting his own life. He was a groundbreaking entertainer who lent his vast crossover appeal to the civil rights movement, becoming a respected and beloved symbol to Americans of all races. Because of his lofty status as a many faceted icon, his betrayal and subsequent ignominious fall from grace stings us all the more. His obvious cluelessness about what he's done clearly demonstrates the corrupting influence of wealth and power leading to a sense of entitlement that boggles the minds of the other, 99 percent.
128
Your comments remind me of MLK's indiscretions. People aware of MLK's well-documented womanizing are quick to say that the good MLK did far outshadows the bad. This is on my mind as much as anything when many people here insist I judge Cosby a monster. I think they unwittingly are asking for cognitive dissonance.
1
Cosby lost me years ago when he stood by Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley. If you're going to support the civil rights movement, you need to be a little more discriminating (you should pardon the expression) about who and what you're supporting.
LIES, SEX, & DEPOSITION Well now that Bill Cosby's dirty laundry is on display for all to review in repulsive detail, we can see that his acts were clearly those of a sexual predator. If only there had been a video of the deposition, the event could have made a good title for a sequel to a movie, Sex, Lies & Video Tape 2. My prediction is that it would have a major appeal for an audience of one, since Cosby seems to have limitless admiration for himself. In his actions we see the limits of the theory of Carl Rogers of unconditional positive regard. Interestingly, I had a psychology course, at Temple of all places, where the professor, who proclaimed that he was a charter member of the American Psychological Association, had taught at Chicago University while Rogers was there. He said that it had become known that at the time that Rogers had formulated the concept of unconditional poditive regard, he was having an extra-marital affair and had disclosed the fact to his wife who apparently accepted the situation.
27
I don't presently see the "smoking gun" for rape allegations. I do think it's a clash between the mythology and reality of sex in our culture. We've always been in awe of people like Wilt Chamberlain. Countless movies and TV shows include pickup lines, games and obfuscations, all in an effort to lure someone previously unknown, into a hookup. We just plain worship the virile and the attractive. Cosby is clearly proud of his record. To most people though, in the cold light of day, at best it's just gross, and at worst, perhaps it's rape.
5
By far the most outrageous and illegal aspect to all this behavior is the use of drugs that suppress any possibility of informed consent.
The rest of it is par for the course for famous and powerful men who have few scruples.
The rest of it is par for the course for famous and powerful men who have few scruples.
8
As someone who studies personality, I find great irony in Bill's conundrum. In order for his psychic strcuture to afford him the cavalier attitude that allows him to use women like objects, he needs to see himself as the innocent victim; and yet, largely due to his own very important work on the Cosby show, his case for victimhood has been severely weakened. He is being tried at the court he constructed for himself. As with the case of Rachel Dolezal, I believe the Cosby affair demonstrates that the journey to psychic integration goes hand-in-hand with the fight for equality.
4
It's ironic that the public never could believe the Cosby dad could do the things that a handful of brave souls said he did when they came forward. Instead we believed that the victims should have known that he might do those things if they got too close.
4
It sounds as if Mr. Cosby has a mental disorder known as Somnophilia. It's a rare sexual disorder or sexual deviation that causes one to become sexually aroused by someone who is unconscious. Attainment of orgasm is dependent upon someone who is unable to resist. It's supposedly rooted in childhood experience and difficult to treat. (It's possible there was sexual abuse when as a child he couldn't resist and that experience is being robotically acted out with him in the switched role as perpetrator). Also, Cosby's cavalier attitude makes it appear that he doesn't know right from wrong or doesn't care. And that can be a sign of sociopathy. Everything has a cause. And the cause here is apparently a serious Jekyll/Hyde type of mental/sexual disorder that resulted in criminal behavior which destroyed lives.
13
How tragic for these victims; how tragic for Mr. Cosby; how tragic for a cultural climate that silences women for that sake of corporate profits. The cover ups make this saga especially egregious. The prime problem in today's society, at least in the U.S., is that the most powerful perpetrators of evil are never held accountable. Think of the Wall Street Robber Barons that brought the American economy to its knees; not one of those individuals has been sent to prison. Lest we forget, hundreds of Black men are gunned down by law enforcement each year in the United States with nary a conviction.
So now, when Cosby has no more money to make for anybody anymore---the truth---which we've all known for years---is revealed!
Evil doings are never banal. They require the complicity and the denial of others. Evil requires accomplices, i.e., people and systems that look the other way.
So now, when Cosby has no more money to make for anybody anymore---the truth---which we've all known for years---is revealed!
Evil doings are never banal. They require the complicity and the denial of others. Evil requires accomplices, i.e., people and systems that look the other way.
13
Gee you think Whoopi Goldberg will continue defending him? Cosby's thinking is scary.
6
I want to offer a different perspective on Cosby's drugging young women who came to him. Just maybe they came for sex with you and your knocking them out with drugs before having sex with them deprived them of the pleasures they rightly expected. Its nevertheless utterly despicable conduct.
1
How can a man justify all this to himself, the way Mr. Cosby does? Drugs, calling her mother and so on.
A man as famous as he is doesn't need to give drugs to women to have sex.
There must be something terribly wrong with him.
This is sickening.
A man as famous as he is doesn't need to give drugs to women to have sex.
There must be something terribly wrong with him.
This is sickening.
12
In show business, an entertainer, whether musician,actor etc, will have "groupies" How the adored one handles these situations depends on profile,popularity ,and maturity. All these woman are "groupies" , but groupies deserve respect . Drugging them for sex shows Cosby didn't have the chops to "score " without them...
5
At his press conference a couple of days ago president Obama said that there was no mechanism or precedent in place for revoking the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Considering the new revelations on Mr Cosby, I hope that the powers that be will now CREATE a mechanism to revoke this honor from a man who so thoroughly has proven himself unworthy of it.
Considering the new revelations on Mr Cosby, I hope that the powers that be will now CREATE a mechanism to revoke this honor from a man who so thoroughly has proven himself unworthy of it.
14
What I would like to know is who in his family, or who is a close friend of his family was doing the same long before Mr. Cosby did what he is claimed to have done. There's a saying: What one does to another has been done to him.
The Cosby situation reminds me a recent case in Cleveland where a man kidnapped young women, kept them hostage for years, had sex that produced babies. It seemed that at long last he tired of his doings and left ajar one door so one of the women would find it and escape, which is what happened, with the other two soon following. At his trial he barely mouthed the words, "My father." He was judged not to be insane but was found guilty and soon thereafter was found dead by hanging by his own hand.
I do not excuse Mr. Cosby; I am just wondering what made him even think of doing what he finally did.
The Cosby situation reminds me a recent case in Cleveland where a man kidnapped young women, kept them hostage for years, had sex that produced babies. It seemed that at long last he tired of his doings and left ajar one door so one of the women would find it and escape, which is what happened, with the other two soon following. At his trial he barely mouthed the words, "My father." He was judged not to be insane but was found guilty and soon thereafter was found dead by hanging by his own hand.
I do not excuse Mr. Cosby; I am just wondering what made him even think of doing what he finally did.
6
My how the mighty have fallen. I really believe that all of the accolades Mr. Cosby has received over the years has led him to believe himself to be worshipful to the point that he actually finds truth in what he has said of his demeanor in these trysts.
He has apparently bought himself out of trouble in the past but is up against the wall this time. This has become Bill Clinton times twenty, he is still a star but his flame has been dampened.
He has apparently bought himself out of trouble in the past but is up against the wall this time. This has become Bill Clinton times twenty, he is still a star but his flame has been dampened.
2
Cosby is a walking talking example of a theory in evolutionary psychology that conscious thoughts evolved out of the survival advantage it gave us by justifying our desires and feelings.
The amount of time and energy Cosby has spent over the last few decades justifying his most, as one commentator put it, "caveman" desires is astounding.
The amount of time and energy Cosby has spent over the last few decades justifying his most, as one commentator put it, "caveman" desires is astounding.
6
The issue is his need to render women incapacitated before sex. That is a pathology as well as a crime.
In the 60s, 70s this was just how it was.
I'm glad there are women coming forward--expect more--as this is most pernicious and predatory.
Maybe next time the women won't be called desiring of victim status, a trend. We can listen to what a wealthy man feels justly entitled to, w/o strings, as though another human is not involved.
Maybe next time we'll catch these guys at an earlier stage when a man forces a woman or slips her drugs, yet claims it consensual. It didn't start out of nowhere w/ Cosby.
Our culture still wants to back the man and find excuses for him, even after reading the depostion. Our values have stenosis, with money buying any/everything.
Our society is ripe for big change, on a number of levels. The millenials are not silent and stoic as others have been on these issues, of all genders and races. It's a new world, if the courts can recognize it.
In the 60s, 70s this was just how it was.
I'm glad there are women coming forward--expect more--as this is most pernicious and predatory.
Maybe next time the women won't be called desiring of victim status, a trend. We can listen to what a wealthy man feels justly entitled to, w/o strings, as though another human is not involved.
Maybe next time we'll catch these guys at an earlier stage when a man forces a woman or slips her drugs, yet claims it consensual. It didn't start out of nowhere w/ Cosby.
Our culture still wants to back the man and find excuses for him, even after reading the depostion. Our values have stenosis, with money buying any/everything.
Our society is ripe for big change, on a number of levels. The millenials are not silent and stoic as others have been on these issues, of all genders and races. It's a new world, if the courts can recognize it.
103
Let's start by getting all those rape kits tested so that justice is delivered to the voiceless.
1
Isn't the real culprit here Cosby's wife- just as it was with Sandusky? Cosby had a regrettable fetish of needing to violate drowsy females. His wife was his business manager which means she probably knew more about his personal needs and habits than even an engaged and attentive wife. He needed psychiatric intervention -the same as Sandusky but both wives seemed to have preferred that their husbands continue to be the "bread winner".
17
The "real culprit?" The real culprits are Jerry Sandusky and Bill Cosby.
You can speculate on whether Mrs. Sandusky "suspected" or "should have known" something was amiss with Sandusky's relationship with young boys but, at least the public, has no evidence this is true. She may very well have thought his emotional closeness to the kids was fine or admirable so unconsciously could not even conceive of him committing any wrong.
We do know that Cosby's wife knew he cheated on her. This has been in other media sources as well as here. The deposition indicates he tried to hide money he paid, or wanted to pay, to women for their silence, from his wife. So it is uncertain how much she knew of his modus operandi. If she thought he was "merely" a cheater, she might not have thought of psychiatric intervention as the first response. Perhaps she thought of couples counseling, who knows? Until we hear more about her knowledge, if any, we really should not call her a culprit and certainly never the "real culprit."
You can speculate on whether Mrs. Sandusky "suspected" or "should have known" something was amiss with Sandusky's relationship with young boys but, at least the public, has no evidence this is true. She may very well have thought his emotional closeness to the kids was fine or admirable so unconsciously could not even conceive of him committing any wrong.
We do know that Cosby's wife knew he cheated on her. This has been in other media sources as well as here. The deposition indicates he tried to hide money he paid, or wanted to pay, to women for their silence, from his wife. So it is uncertain how much she knew of his modus operandi. If she thought he was "merely" a cheater, she might not have thought of psychiatric intervention as the first response. Perhaps she thought of couples counseling, who knows? Until we hear more about her knowledge, if any, we really should not call her a culprit and certainly never the "real culprit."
2
Two of my college classmates died before the age of 55. One was shot as he stood in the doorway of the homeless shelter he founded. The other was a former Marine who did much community service but became despondent about his finances and took his life. Both black. I think the lives of black Americans are so hard. With Dr. Cosby we do not have a conviction. Nor did anyone press charges. Accusations we have but I just can't join the lynch mob. I read the "Hello Friend" on Dr. Cosby's sweatshirt in the photo and remember that these were the words of Cosby's young son Ennis, tragically murdered in 1997. Ennis was working on a doctorate in special education at Columbia. The Times published an essay by Ennis in the days after his death. Don't tell me Cosby was a bad father. Don't tell me he is 100% bad. I do not believe it.
4
Part of being a good father is living in overall good life. Cosby's children will have difficult decades ahead of themselves because of how he has lived. He is not remotely a good father, a good anything.
Similarly, his actions as a sexual predator have stripped away all of the joy and pride that his colleagues associated with their participation on the Cosby show.
Similarly, his actions as a sexual predator have stripped away all of the joy and pride that his colleagues associated with their participation on the Cosby show.
1
This just goes to show that the Hollywood depiction of evil, of monsters, in all their films and "entertainment" don't hold a candle to the truly monstrous, the callous predation of one human being upon another. Especially by an older human upon a younger one. The destruction of the dreams of the innocent and trusting are hideously ugly.
This man, by his skulking attempts to hide the his actions, betrays the fact that he knew full well what he was doing. And yet continued to do it over many years. Even now he obfuscates. Clearly there's something ethically missing in his head. But though this probably comes as little solace to his victims it does seem his punishment is setting up to fit his crime. His has been a life of narcissistic delights. Societal accolades have been lavishly bestowed upon him over the years. His acolytes have been legion. So it is poetic; call it Karma, that he will now suffer the wrath from the same for abusing their trust by his perverted, abuser, predatory ways. His true punishment, for this is the worst that can happen to such a persona, is to become a social pariah for all that, by his own words, he stands revealed as having done.
John~
American Net'Zne
This man, by his skulking attempts to hide the his actions, betrays the fact that he knew full well what he was doing. And yet continued to do it over many years. Even now he obfuscates. Clearly there's something ethically missing in his head. But though this probably comes as little solace to his victims it does seem his punishment is setting up to fit his crime. His has been a life of narcissistic delights. Societal accolades have been lavishly bestowed upon him over the years. His acolytes have been legion. So it is poetic; call it Karma, that he will now suffer the wrath from the same for abusing their trust by his perverted, abuser, predatory ways. His true punishment, for this is the worst that can happen to such a persona, is to become a social pariah for all that, by his own words, he stands revealed as having done.
John~
American Net'Zne
110
Let me get this straight. In a culture that promotes sex, skinny babes in bars & casinos, sexuality, alcohol & has even endorsed perversion, now, as "marriage". Where sports & television ads & internet spots all contain sexy women & beer commercials suggest that by merely popping a can of brew...beautiful sexy women will appear out of nowhere...we jump on the back of a man who enjoys....uhm....having drinks & sex with women.
Does that sound about right?
Does that sound about right?
4
Let me get this straight. You think that secretly drugging women and then forcing yourself on them sexually is merely "enjoy[ing]....having drinks and sex with women"? And you dare to suggest that a loving committed relationship between two members of the same sex is "perversion"? I can't even begin to comprehend the depths of confusion that would make possible accepting such loathsome, disgusting conclusions.
4
all true, except drugging and rape are over the line.
Nothing much surprises me, so Cosby's attitude and behavior is just another pathetic narcissist's delusional entitlement being revealed. His lack of regret and casual insensitivity...and now silence...represent his egocentric view of the world. It's all about him. And now we all know. Ultimately, that will be his legacy. Not the one he expected, but the one he deserves.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
9
One word: "consent." Look it up.
1
Trying to get laid with young models at any cost? Oh dear, What kind of monster does such a thing?
7
Unfortunately this type of behavior by men has been going on for centuries and for some reason women still are lured like a moth to a flame. It takes two to tango.
5
Tango requires 2 dancers - not just one who drags around someone too impaired to dance.
People taking undue advantage of others in weakened states has gone on for centuries. Longevity of despicable behavior doesn't justify it or make it more palatable.
People taking undue advantage of others in weakened states has gone on for centuries. Longevity of despicable behavior doesn't justify it or make it more palatable.
20
A line of bull, booze, recreational drugs and some coin. Isn't that how we all get chicks above our pay grade.
3
Apparently most women would be above your pay grade.
16
Hey! Watch it, Rita! Most young men are looking "for chicks above our pay grade". Which constitutes most chicks and most pay grades.....
Keep thinking of that line from the Great Gatsby: "the rich are different than you and me." Not that this behavior does not happen among the non-rich, but his ability to hide and cover up years and years of sexual misconduct only available to those with great wealth. The other part of this sad story that bothers me is the role his lawyers played in enabling such behavior. I know, there is lawyer-client privilege, but to stay on the payroll or the failure to seek out some strategy to prevent women from being victimized by their client is unprofessional. At which point in defending complaint after complaint --going to elaborate means to cover up the behavior--- do you as a professional say, Mr. Cosby I am unable to represent you anymore.
26
I'm not defending Cosby, but this behavior has been going on in Hollywood (and all the entertainment industry) for many decades. The women who are accusing Cosby of his alleged immoral and criminal behavior, should have known better.
8
I'm not defending Cosby, but...
Wake up, you defended him.
Wake up, you defended him.
I'm sure Roman Polanski is sighing a sigh of relief.
2
Is he defending or just stating a fact about the attitude in Hollywood?
1
What a vile man! And that goes for all those who defend his behavior and those who enabled his behavior in the past.
This man had the gall to preach about "family values". It goes to show that often the loudest preachers are the biggest sinning hypocrites.
This man had the gall to preach about "family values". It goes to show that often the loudest preachers are the biggest sinning hypocrites.
21
Terrible acts to commit for someone who has held himself out as a role model and community leader. What strikes me about this case is how long this has gone on for. I can't help but wonder how much his fortune and fame (ironically) have almost enabled him to escape without consequences.
7
It's pathetic enough that he views himself as a mind-reading seducer. It's simply criminal that he drugs his victims.
20
Never was it more clear that rape = violence/pathological domination, not sex.
17
Except there was no rape involved. Civil court is not criminal court.
Well, that was disgusting but not altogether unexpected. I could not believe that all these women got together and cooked up this scenario. I do have one question: None of these people who have been defending him had any idea that he was a sexual predator? His wife? His co-star? Things like this get around - especially in Hollywood. I think this whole matter could have been cleared up a lot sooner, sparing the victims who have already suffered enough.
8
A whole bunch of people, including prosecutors, journalists, and others in role to help stop it, knew about this a long time ago. That is the problem, no one did. This happens over and over and over, excuses and cover ups to protect sexual predators with social, economic, political power. This is what must change, this enabling, if we are ever to have a sane culture, a sane humane society.
This whole matter could have been cleared up a lot sooner if so many of these 40 (and counting) from 1965 to 2008 (so far) women had spoken up decades ago. These victims suffered. Through their sitting on their hands, they also caused other women's assaults.
2
Yes, Bill Graham's Goat, how dare those victims not behave better? Once again blaming the victim.
In his own words and under oath. Now maybe everyone will quit blaming the women who have said he was a rapist. This is one more example of how people appear to be one thing in public, and are really monsters IRL. And he continues to think it's OK to lie, because after all, he's famous and all the women are not equal to him in his mind. Sex for sexual predators is a matter of power and of demeaning the victims. Time for Cosby to admit he was wrong, or shut up. I hope he is prosecuted for the one or two crimes that are still within the statute of limitations. All those similar transactions and his own words in the deposition will show a jury that he's a criminal who preys upon women.
5
Although the statute of limitations has (unfortunately) expired for nearly all of these women, I hope that some will now sue him for defamation, as he has publicly called them liars and disparaged their personal and professional reputations. That is current damage, having substance and measure. He is not shielded by having done this through his lawyers - his hired goons.
14
Graham, Sidney: You're hanging onto a thousand-page, non-confidential deposition by Bill Cosby that you got through a court reporting service and not releasing it?
What? You think we're all on quaaludes or something? Release the deposition!
What? You think we're all on quaaludes or something? Release the deposition!
4
I wish Camille Cosby, at the first hint of infidelity, had acted like Elin Woods, and chased Bill Cosby out with something more powerful than a golf club.
This is not to blame the wife but there certainly is a dysfunctional dynamic in a marriage that allows this to go on this long. In recent reports of the Cosby's meeting with PR reps and attorneys, statements attributed to Camille share her husband's cavalier attitude towards sex and women: not a big deal - he's being a man - those women consented.
There's nothing more callous and cruel about our humanity than to allow assault on the dignity of our fellow humans, as long as we are held on a pedestal of righteousness (Camille is supposed not to have missed church except on her wedding day to Bill).
Camille is quoted as saying she "created him." Yes, indeed, as his business manager, she helped create and sell an image of respectability and righteousness. I just wished all that church-going would have instilled in her a huge sense of responsibility about the devastating impact of a big lie on those who truly look up to public personas as role models and mentors.
This is not to blame the wife but there certainly is a dysfunctional dynamic in a marriage that allows this to go on this long. In recent reports of the Cosby's meeting with PR reps and attorneys, statements attributed to Camille share her husband's cavalier attitude towards sex and women: not a big deal - he's being a man - those women consented.
There's nothing more callous and cruel about our humanity than to allow assault on the dignity of our fellow humans, as long as we are held on a pedestal of righteousness (Camille is supposed not to have missed church except on her wedding day to Bill).
Camille is quoted as saying she "created him." Yes, indeed, as his business manager, she helped create and sell an image of respectability and righteousness. I just wished all that church-going would have instilled in her a huge sense of responsibility about the devastating impact of a big lie on those who truly look up to public personas as role models and mentors.
28
He's still right about race!
6
so being "of color" is a rationalization for this behavior?
Well, yes, of course he is. He had a grew thing going, and for someone with a 9th grade education he was very, very smart and yeah, probably a good reader of people as he claims. He should be studied in the same way that we study other predators like Ted Bundy. He knew how to charm the white business suits, how to flatter the black working and professional classes, and how to use America's divisions to his advantage. I understand why these women found it impossible to report his crimes as it happened. It's not just a matter of who would believe them, as they've said, but they must have realized the extent of his evil genius. Predators study their marks, and in this case the marks include the American public who showered him with honorary doctorates, awards, praise, monuments, paintings of him between MLK Jr and Nelson Mandela!, and on and on. Even the article here, I read it and thought, 'Oh, that's not so bad. Poor fellow,' until someone here pointed out (correctly, I believe) that true to form he was spinning even while giving a deposition. Always calculating, always mind games. I grew up with the Cosby Show and was a big fan, even when my boyfriend, a film student at the time, told me the truth (I guess there were segments of the black population who knew all about him all along). I refused to believe it then. Well I do now.
Can we send his wife to jail too?
16
Sounds to me like the thoughts of about half of our male population. His money allowed him to persue his fantasies. Too bad..........But this matter is no place for Obama to be involved - or blamed. As seems to be the habit nowadays.
1
What was the appeal of having sex with unconscious women, Mr. Cosby?
Was it because when you had sex with unconscious women, you didn't have to put up with complaints and taunts about performing poorly?
Did this possibly reflect your cumulative humiliating experience having sex with conscious women?
Was it because when you had sex with unconscious women, you didn't have to put up with complaints and taunts about performing poorly?
Did this possibly reflect your cumulative humiliating experience having sex with conscious women?
15
Why do we expect this man to be a role model in Hollywood - the land of the perverse and absurd? Even if he turns out to be world's most notorious womanizer - these women were consenting adults who also made a bad choice with a married man. They are also looking for cash settlements from an older man who should be enjoying the fruits of his laboratory, rather than making headline news for what essentially is a private matter between his wife and himself.
3
you obviously missed the bit about them being drugged and able to consent.
Truthfully, the only genuinely criminal activity he acknowledges is the administration of various sedatives quaaludes, etc.) to his victims. Creepy, yes. Criminal, arguably. Pathetic, certainly. But all the rest of the behavior is par for the course in the battle between the sexes. Revolting, yes. But illegal? I dont believe so.
6
Before we condemn and ridicule Mr. Cosby - and I am not saying his conduct was in anyway acceptable - let us each consider interactions we each have taken with others, that we would not want the results of, to be made available for public view on the front page of the NYT.
We should include in our evaluation of Mr. Cosby the saying: Let the one who is without sin, or let the one who had never done anything he or she is ashamed of, let that person cast the first stone. What we should ask is: What can we learn from Mr. Cosby's actions to benefit ourselves and our sexually oriented culture, and that no man or woman is an island. And in what way should he be held responsible?
We should include in our evaluation of Mr. Cosby the saying: Let the one who is without sin, or let the one who had never done anything he or she is ashamed of, let that person cast the first stone. What we should ask is: What can we learn from Mr. Cosby's actions to benefit ourselves and our sexually oriented culture, and that no man or woman is an island. And in what way should he be held responsible?
9
It's a tragic situation to hear about, though the issue of men taking advantage of young women has been in the voxpop for, the want of a better phrase, 'a good innings'. As Francois mentioned, it's the fact that he's been the 'man in a glass house throwing stones', which is augments the hypocrisy of the situation.
He plays himself out to be a smooth talking, compassionate and avuncular mentor, but if this were true, why did he ever need drugs in the first place? At my 'tender age', when someone's stressed I don't think of passing them a pipe or a pill, I'll just give them a massage and let them talk freely; perhaps I'm naive though, and I should always have some sedatives in the house, for when a friend gets 'stressed'.
He plays himself out to be a smooth talking, compassionate and avuncular mentor, but if this were true, why did he ever need drugs in the first place? At my 'tender age', when someone's stressed I don't think of passing them a pipe or a pill, I'll just give them a massage and let them talk freely; perhaps I'm naive though, and I should always have some sedatives in the house, for when a friend gets 'stressed'.
4
The accusations and charges are very serious indeed and should not be taken lightly. If drugs were involved then the question becomes were the woman taking them voluntarily or not. If not, as President Obama said in his recent press conference, it is 'rape.' And rape is a very serious offense.
However, in reading the article this morning I had to laugh at the NYTimes running a Viagra ad along side the article. The irony of the world we live in!
However, in reading the article this morning I had to laugh at the NYTimes running a Viagra ad along side the article. The irony of the world we live in!
6
I do take this lightly because I am certain that the Times could publish a similar article about Bill Clinton pursuing women - because he can - but because he did not incense the liberal intelligensia with sermonizing about personal responsibility they won't. I can't say they'd find it all neatly packaged in a single deposition but it is there to find from women previously discredited.
2
There's an interesting commentary on the American public to be found between the lines of these readers' comments --the vast majority of which suggest Bill Cosby is guilty of rape. That is the American public is quick to believe the guilt of an accused person based on allegations alone.
This article presents no actual evidence of a crime. And, as far as I know, there's no evidence of Cosby's guilt be found anywhere in the public record. There's only the allegations of purported victims, all of which have both a financial incentive to lie and deeply flawed and inconsistent stories.
This article presents no actual evidence of a crime. And, as far as I know, there's no evidence of Cosby's guilt be found anywhere in the public record. There's only the allegations of purported victims, all of which have both a financial incentive to lie and deeply flawed and inconsistent stories.
2
These women might have a financial incentive to lie but 'come on' about the rest. Their stories are not flawed. Their stories are consistent. Toss in this from wikipedia:
===
In Cosby's 1969 comedy album "It's True! It's True!," he talks of his obsession with "Spanish fly" and jokes about slipping the aphrodisiac into unsuspecting women's drinks. In his 1992 book Childhood, he devotes an entire chapter to Spanish Fly, and discusses how to give it to a woman: "You got to slip it to her when she thinks she's drinkin' something else." He also mentions how to know if she has too much: "Soon as her clothes come off, that's enough." In a 1991 interview with Larry King, Cosby made jokes about drugging women with Spanish Fly by dropping it into their drinks so they would then want to have sex with him.
===
Cosby criminally assaulted many women. In turn many of these women through their silence let it continue.
===
In Cosby's 1969 comedy album "It's True! It's True!," he talks of his obsession with "Spanish fly" and jokes about slipping the aphrodisiac into unsuspecting women's drinks. In his 1992 book Childhood, he devotes an entire chapter to Spanish Fly, and discusses how to give it to a woman: "You got to slip it to her when she thinks she's drinkin' something else." He also mentions how to know if she has too much: "Soon as her clothes come off, that's enough." In a 1991 interview with Larry King, Cosby made jokes about drugging women with Spanish Fly by dropping it into their drinks so they would then want to have sex with him.
===
Cosby criminally assaulted many women. In turn many of these women through their silence let it continue.
2
Well said. I agree. I read this article three times and the transcript as well and I've get to find any admission of criminal behavior. Sadly, a great many Americans, even those among the NYT readership either do not understand, or are unwilling to accept the presumption of innocence as a basic organizing principle of our society.
2
My understanding is that women who are raped can experience orgasm--it's a physiological response to the stimulation. This was portrayed in an episode of Law & Order SVU.
1
Elizabeth...I am not refuting the physiological response part, but citing Law & Order SVU implies that what is shown on TV series must be true.
1
My husband used to say, as a general rule, that if you're going to have to draw a line, then draw it in close, at a place where you are still okay. If the consequences of doing that are difficult, it's usually, I think, because the problem occurs within a context that enables it, it's not just the offender that makes the consequences difficult -- for example, black listing (of victims who do draw a line) doesn't work if nobody pays attention to the call to ostracize.
1
Well, this will sound cavalier, but what are the chances that his career is over?
He's such a phony -- all these years America believing his family-oriented persona, etc., when all along he did nothing but lie.
He lied about so many things. I feel for his wife, who too, was subjugated by his bull, and dishonesty, and deceit, and howevermanymorewords there are in the thesaurus for this.
So sad. what an untapped ego this man has.
I hope the women who were victims of his inflated sense of self worth are able to eventually recover and calm down from this, however, they can, and let the world know that this is the end of men abusing women this way.
He's such a phony -- all these years America believing his family-oriented persona, etc., when all along he did nothing but lie.
He lied about so many things. I feel for his wife, who too, was subjugated by his bull, and dishonesty, and deceit, and howevermanymorewords there are in the thesaurus for this.
So sad. what an untapped ego this man has.
I hope the women who were victims of his inflated sense of self worth are able to eventually recover and calm down from this, however, they can, and let the world know that this is the end of men abusing women this way.
3
I'm someone who has experienced spouse unfaithfulness, but in this era of anything goes it seems curiously disingenuous to exhaustively document that kind of behavior in others. What is the public virtue in this? I understand the perfidious nature of the quaaludes, but can't a line be drawn that separates what most puritanically find distasteful versus what's illegal? IIs it a surprise to anyone that Mr. Cosby and the large bulk of our entertainment and political professions are ego focused and largely amoral (despite their moralizing)? Or is the point to demonize another person as completely as possible, in whatever ways one can dig up (the answer in terms of what the NYT is publishing in this regard is clearly 'yes' to my mind)?
5
Interesting that every comment on this article in support of Cosby is written by a man. This proclivity must be much more rampant than we realize.
1
Is Cosby above the law? If the answer is no, then why has any US government law and order or justice agency done anything about the matter?
A wealthy "celebrity" ring fences himself with expensive lawyers can manage to commit crimes for many decades and get away with it in USA?
This probe must extend to those lawyers who protected him in exchange for money.
Who are they?
They should be named and their photographs exposed in the Internet.
A wealthy "celebrity" ring fences himself with expensive lawyers can manage to commit crimes for many decades and get away with it in USA?
This probe must extend to those lawyers who protected him in exchange for money.
Who are they?
They should be named and their photographs exposed in the Internet.
8
My disappointment in Mr. Cosby is inexpressible. I loved his stuff since I was a kid. Idolized him as a model grownup. Now that the mask is off he looks like one the out of control sex maniacs running Wall Street that John LeFevre describes. What is it about success that brings out the worst in so many people?
2
I am sorry, but honestly, perhaps it's time we all grew up and stopped idolizing TV and movie stars. Bill Cosby was an act; the Cosby Show was a show.
1
Targeting dozens (and maybe more) of young women for sex is bad enough. And pathological enough. But the apparent "need" Cosby had to drug them takes it to a whole new criminal and psychopathic level.
10
Confidentiality clauses regarding legal disclosures are routine in lawsuit settlements, but we need to consider making them unenforceable legally. They reflect a collusion between the parties to enable a serial offender to continue its ways in exchange for the offender receiving individual compensation. This is not in the public interest.
7
There is no excuse for rape, whether forcible, coercive or by intentionally rendering a person incapable of consent. Based upon all of these women coming forward, the weight of evidence leads me to believe that he has raped a number of women and used drugs to do so. I find it difficult to believe they are all lying, especially those with incentive to remain silent now. Nevertheless, evidence of repeated intimate dates and even a further date years later, or voluntary substance abuse, gives me pause as to what happened in an individual case, though no amount of past intimacy (or even marriage) justifies rape. Many news sources have used Cosby's admission of Quaalude use as proof of intent when there was no such admission and in fact, a denial (this article is the first time I thought it was handled fairly). Drugs and alcohol are often used by both men and women as an excuse for sexual behavior which they can later deny intending and both men and women routinely lie to themselves and others about sex. Also, I have heard Ms. Allred speak on a few occasions and just do not trust her to be fair. Unfortunately, that is going to reflect on those who choose to use her services, even if they are telling the truth. In general, they have my sympathies, but that does not mean anything goes and reason goes out the window.
11
I tend to think the following from wikipedia are might solid proof of Cosby's intent: In Cosby's 1969 comedy album It's True! It's True!, he talks of his obsession with "Spanish fly" and jokes about slipping the aphrodisiac into unsuspecting women's drinks. In his 1992 book Childhood, he devotes an entire chapter to Spanish Fly, and discusses how to give it to a woman: "You got to slip it to her when she thinks she's drinkin' something else." He also mentions how to know if she has too much: "Soon as her clothes come off, that's enough." In a 1991 interview with Larry King, Cosby made jokes about drugging women with Spanish Fly by dropping it into their drinks so they would then want to have sex with him.
I wonder what in Cosby's psyche that is so twisted that he thought that this behavior was acceptable? We'll likely never know, but his friendly front seems to have been hiding such a damaged soul.
2
When he said he doesn't talk about his sex life because he's a gentleman, I couldn't help but think "Yeah, a likely story." He doesn't talk about his sex life because it would completely incriminate him.
21
The quotation on this is: “I am a man, the only way you will hear about who I had sex with is from the person I had it with,” he said. I guess you would prefer that Cosby be a typical male and brag about his exploits.
1
I wouldn't say the affairs that bad. But praising yourself as "trust worthy" is the ultimate ego. And he did commit a crime. Last I looked you couldn't give someone a strong sedative without their knowledge.
This is all while he preached to others.
This is all while he preached to others.
4
People's propensity for self-denial and moral ambiguity always amazes me.
I'm not just talking about Bill Cosby, serial rapist. I'm talking about the commenters here making excuses for him.
Yes, I know you "know him" and the women are largely invisible. But would you extend this level of empathy if the "Cosby" in this article was, say a unknown professor, teacher, priest or someone else in a position of authority? If you couldn't see his face, or hear his voice in your mind, how staunchly would you all be advocating his position as a lothario vs. rapist?
What if your daughter, sister, or friend was approached by a seemingly respectful powerful icon and offered professional support in their chosen field? If the came home molested and drugged, would you give that man a pass?
Isn't it self evident that putting drugs into a persons body is a legal and moral violation? What if one of those women had gotten seriously ill from the drugs they never agreed to ingest? That doesn't bother you?
Our bodies are the most sacred things we carry....and they should never be violated against our will. Nothing should go in them...pills or body parts....without our permission. If that's too obtuse a point, then may I suggest you are part of the culture that enables our high rates of rape?
This is a story about how the American public was duped, yes. But it's also a story about the courage of these women in pursuing justice against all odds. How about you pause and give that some thought?
I'm not just talking about Bill Cosby, serial rapist. I'm talking about the commenters here making excuses for him.
Yes, I know you "know him" and the women are largely invisible. But would you extend this level of empathy if the "Cosby" in this article was, say a unknown professor, teacher, priest or someone else in a position of authority? If you couldn't see his face, or hear his voice in your mind, how staunchly would you all be advocating his position as a lothario vs. rapist?
What if your daughter, sister, or friend was approached by a seemingly respectful powerful icon and offered professional support in their chosen field? If the came home molested and drugged, would you give that man a pass?
Isn't it self evident that putting drugs into a persons body is a legal and moral violation? What if one of those women had gotten seriously ill from the drugs they never agreed to ingest? That doesn't bother you?
Our bodies are the most sacred things we carry....and they should never be violated against our will. Nothing should go in them...pills or body parts....without our permission. If that's too obtuse a point, then may I suggest you are part of the culture that enables our high rates of rape?
This is a story about how the American public was duped, yes. But it's also a story about the courage of these women in pursuing justice against all odds. How about you pause and give that some thought?
13
One would think that these women "pursuing justice against all odds" would have made at least one police report among them. Instead they stayed silent. Courage? No. Instead these women put in harm's way many other women.
1
As much as I am disgusted with Cosby's behaviour, as well as with the varying and very short statutes of limitation for the crime of rape, I am even more disgusted with mainly men that white-wash his behaviour as being the norm in some way, and that the women are really at fault.
MH for example wrote that the whole article is utterly puritan, and that the women that many men seek for sex are not even up to a 'good dinner conversation'.
It seems there are a lot of 'Cosbys' out there flying under the radar that still see women as sex objects only, even if their own sexual satisfaction can only be achieved by disabling them.
MH for example wrote that the whole article is utterly puritan, and that the women that many men seek for sex are not even up to a 'good dinner conversation'.
It seems there are a lot of 'Cosbys' out there flying under the radar that still see women as sex objects only, even if their own sexual satisfaction can only be achieved by disabling them.
30
It is really depressing to read what many of the contributors have written. Why is the woman always blamed? He himself has quite unashamedly admitted to drugging his victims for sex with them. He is guilty and admits it. I think one of the tell tale signs is his face. Why isn't he in jail?
9
Why did these women decide to go a date with a married man?
1
It's quite appalling to hear someone like yourself actually decide that someone is guilty based solely upon the expression on his face. I hope the next time you are called for jury duty that you disclose that you make these kinds of judgments.
2
As a former forensic psychologis, a sociopathic individual who uses women in a serial manner over a lifetime to make his grandiose image of himself ever more grandiose can be extremely destructive. What makes this case more unusual is that these situations are usually barred to people of color. However, due to his star status, he was able to transcend the racism and class oppression and use his status to accrue the power he needed to employ his grandiose methods and live the life of other hollywood male stars. Their behavior, however, goes beyond mere narcissism, as their degree of callous indifference, and aggressive usury behavior, and methods of violation used mark them as a much more seriously disturbed individuals and theircrimes all that more serious and the damage they do far more devastating to the many individuals. Perhaps with the revealing more and more details of the methods and the true nature of what really occurred will the greater public realize the true nature of what an abusive person employs to commit these acts and the damage they do to women.
7
Cosby transcended racism? No, son. He was forced to be a spokesmen about race issues, adding more to his plate. People couldn't see Cosby the comedian. People saw Cosby the black comedian. You need to consider the stress on leaders in the black community. This does not excuse mass seduction and possible rape. But it may explain this complicated man who, on the one hand, has presented the most outspoken statements against rape of anyone in family TV on at least two of his TV shows, and Cosby the womanizer and possible rapist.
How did Camille Cosby characterize him, she said that he used to be "selfish", but that is all over now. How can this woman continue to be an apologist for this horrible man ?
9
It's what you do if you have a life with someone. It's often referred to as "family". When terrible things happen in family we deal with it then move on. There is the victim issue as well....
When does Hugh Hefner's Playboy Mansion parties and all the celebrities who attended get investigated? Does the current position of those who still support Roman Polanski change?
I guess the sixties chants of free love has a price tag attached to it after all.
I guess the sixties chants of free love has a price tag attached to it after all.
8
What's strange about this article is the almost moralistic tone it attempts, while at the same time failing the apply those morals to the women in his life.
First of all, there is nothing wrong with men pursuing in younger women. period. Why the Times has taken umbrage with him availing himself of the attitudes his talent and fame has gotten him is something more from an overprotective mother that an objective report. It should not come as a surprise that as a power player in Hollywood he had many female "admirers". This is one of the advantages of being successful and famous.
Second, if the assertion and objection is that he used "fame" and "deceit" to get women, I've got news for you, he's a man and we all do and would. If we didn't, a a conversation may go something like "no, I'm not really interested in your personality or work. I just met you."
Third, does it not say something about the women that they were able to be "manipulated" by his fame into being his one night stands? I think it does.
None of this would matter if the Times stuck to the facts rather than intertwining its moral slant on the relationships of a Hollywood hotshot.
First of all, there is nothing wrong with men pursuing in younger women. period. Why the Times has taken umbrage with him availing himself of the attitudes his talent and fame has gotten him is something more from an overprotective mother that an objective report. It should not come as a surprise that as a power player in Hollywood he had many female "admirers". This is one of the advantages of being successful and famous.
Second, if the assertion and objection is that he used "fame" and "deceit" to get women, I've got news for you, he's a man and we all do and would. If we didn't, a a conversation may go something like "no, I'm not really interested in your personality or work. I just met you."
Third, does it not say something about the women that they were able to be "manipulated" by his fame into being his one night stands? I think it does.
None of this would matter if the Times stuck to the facts rather than intertwining its moral slant on the relationships of a Hollywood hotshot.
10
"Second, if the assertion and objection is that he used "fame" and "deceit" to get women, I've got news for you, he's a man and we all do and would."
I'm a man. Hopefully, you're wrong. You certainly don't speak for me. People who behave this way have no self-discipline, dignity, or honor.
I'm a man. Hopefully, you're wrong. You certainly don't speak for me. People who behave this way have no self-discipline, dignity, or honor.
3
This coverage is clearly about Bill Cosby being black. A group of people in this country - mostly white, and some apparently among the editors and reporters of the New York Times - suffer from confusion about the difference between Cliff Huxtable and Bill Cosby, and they feel betrayed that Cosby is not, and never was, Huxtable.
I always thought that Cosby was creepy, and didn't watched the show. As far as I could see, his part could have been played by Al Jolson, in blackface, to no ill effect and possibly to the considerable comfort of many fans of the show. Except for the money, it must have grated horribly on Cosby to do it.
Reach out with your toe and turn over a hundred rocks in American celebritydom, and you will find the same or much worse. It really is the color of his skin that invites this level of attention.
I always thought that Cosby was creepy, and didn't watched the show. As far as I could see, his part could have been played by Al Jolson, in blackface, to no ill effect and possibly to the considerable comfort of many fans of the show. Except for the money, it must have grated horribly on Cosby to do it.
Reach out with your toe and turn over a hundred rocks in American celebritydom, and you will find the same or much worse. It really is the color of his skin that invites this level of attention.
4
An actor does not present all of his true self when walking onstage....although many of us would like to think that and are appalled if we find differently....no matter who he is off screen, his humor about family life still stands. I agree with the comments below that much rests on how women were treated and how they acted during the times. I doubt if we examined other stars' lives that there is little difference. All this appears now because the times have changed and there is money to gain by speaking up. True - I do not like what happened in the past, but I find it hard to dismiss all of Mr. Cosby when looking at this from many sides. How many of us would have been available woman at a bar seeking the company of a star? How many of us would have shared a drink with him?
4
What money? i find your comment repulsive. These women didn't agree to have a knock-out drug added to their drink.
1
The one thing that separates Bill Cosby from the legions of other men who have been put in prison for the exact same thing is:
Money. Lots of money will buy lots of silence. Being rich and famous can disguise criminality in a human being.
I bet we won't be hearing any more moral castigating about other people from Bill Cosby. His sins and crimes are now public knowledge.
Casting the first stone did it.
Money. Lots of money will buy lots of silence. Being rich and famous can disguise criminality in a human being.
I bet we won't be hearing any more moral castigating about other people from Bill Cosby. His sins and crimes are now public knowledge.
Casting the first stone did it.
3
The progression of Cosby defenders:
-He's such a great family guy, he would never cheat on his wife.
-Okay, he cheated on his wife but the sex was consensual, he would never drug somebody.
-Okay, he would drug somebody, but the women consented to take the drugs.
-Okay the women didn't consent to take the drugs, but quaaludes wouldn't knock them out.
It's all money grab, he's innocent! (Does that about summarize their logic )
-He's such a great family guy, he would never cheat on his wife.
-Okay, he cheated on his wife but the sex was consensual, he would never drug somebody.
-Okay, he would drug somebody, but the women consented to take the drugs.
-Okay the women didn't consent to take the drugs, but quaaludes wouldn't knock them out.
It's all money grab, he's innocent! (Does that about summarize their logic )
13
Tell me how we should prevent this in the future. Is it most important to promote a lynch mob of Cosby? Or is what's most important to tell women to report rape and assault by drug immediately? And if the police report goes nowhere, shouldn't they publicize their allegations?
1
An incredible amount of arrogance comes forth from this deposition. Though I was a great fan of the Cosby show, I felt a little uncomfortable at times with the show. I thought a certain arrogance crept through, but I tended to regard it as evidence of my own latent racism - well maybe, not so much, it occurs to me now. In general we over reward our entertainers materially and by our adulation.
2
This ranks among the most disgusting things I've ever read, and i'm not easily offended. Mr. Cosby is the epitome of a "dirty old man". He used his power and influence and drugs to genuinely prey on these women. The only thing that's missing is a resort to violence.
3
Transportation policies to promote bicycle safety is an issue; another bike commuter getting run down by a motorist is newsworthy, for a moment, but ultimately a small, but tragic, part of the larger story involving transportation policies. The same is true here. Sexual predation, in all its forms, is an issue; an individual example of it is newsworthy, for a moment, etc.
The same analysis applies when the bicyclist or predator is famous. The celebrity culture is voracious in building up its icons and equally so in tearing them down. I find both ends of this process repulsive.
The same analysis applies when the bicyclist or predator is famous. The celebrity culture is voracious in building up its icons and equally so in tearing them down. I find both ends of this process repulsive.
2
He plays. He's a narcissist. There are a million songs about guys like this, self-help books about this, and I'll educate my daughter to be aware of dudes who behave like Cosby.
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
3
I guess we shouldn't have to say this, but it seems like going to another person's home and taking drugs with them is a bit risky. You just cannot trust anyone to act responsibly in this situation. So please, ladies and gentlemen, please stop engaging in this reckless behavior and expect us all to feel bad for you when it goes wrong. It always goes wrong.
11
Bill Cosby is a comedian and actor. WE gave him "a profile at odds with the popular image he so long enjoyed, that of father figure and public moralist." just as WE gave Atticus Finch - a fictional character - his high moral standing. Now WE are incensed that they are not who we created them to be? Is what Mr. Cosby did wrong? Yes. Is what the women did to get ahead wrong? Yes. But how can we be surprised? That is/was the world of "entertainment" and wealth - sex and drugs and money. Mr. Cosby spent his life making us laugh and I thank him for that. I have no right to judge him or the women who were using him to get ahead. To see he and his loved ones' lives destroyed at the near end of his life is very sad to me. It's all about money and blackness.
4
Bill Cosby isn't responsible for deception, abuse and rape of women. He should be pardoned with sensitivity and sympathy rather than demonized, because the violent society in which he was born into and raised is responsible.
No he should be locked away forever with no option for parole. And all his awards, fake degrees, and accolades should be rescinded. That would be the responsible thing to do, what a responsible society would do.
I don't recall of any woman continuing a relationship with a person she believes just raped her. I'm a 65 year old white guy who grew up watching Bill Cosby on TV and think he is one of the funniest comedians out there. I feel sorry for Cosby's wife and children but don't think Cosby should spend the rest of his life in prison for his behavior. If he has to pay tons of money for inappropriate behavior, then so be it. He has tons of it. We have to stop looking for perfection in people we admire. Like it or not, they are just like us. I wonder what people would be sad if Cosby was not not married?
6
@Will.Swoboda
What?! "Like it or not, they are are just like us"?
I hope not. I would hate to be a parent having to constantly warn my child to be aware of predators like Cosby who drugs women to have sex with them.
Cosby is a sick man. He could have had any woman he wanted given his success and power and yet, he had to render them helpless in order to have what he called "sex" with them. This was not "inappropriate behavior." This is deviant and immoral and illegal behavior. This is the behavior of someone who has a deeper problem than inappropriateness.
What?! "Like it or not, they are are just like us"?
I hope not. I would hate to be a parent having to constantly warn my child to be aware of predators like Cosby who drugs women to have sex with them.
Cosby is a sick man. He could have had any woman he wanted given his success and power and yet, he had to render them helpless in order to have what he called "sex" with them. This was not "inappropriate behavior." This is deviant and immoral and illegal behavior. This is the behavior of someone who has a deeper problem than inappropriateness.
1
I don't understand why anybody ever assumed the best about Bill Cosby's sexual morals.
For example, my recollection is that Bill Cosby seemed to spend much of the 1970s hanging out at the Playboy Mansion, and probably not for the articles.
My parents went to a Harry Belafonte concert at the Hollywood Bowl in 1971; Belafonte was sick so he sent Cosby in his place, but Cosby worked extremely blue. My parents were shocked.
And then there was the young woman Cosby had thrown in prison for blackmail back in the 1990s.
For example, my recollection is that Bill Cosby seemed to spend much of the 1970s hanging out at the Playboy Mansion, and probably not for the articles.
My parents went to a Harry Belafonte concert at the Hollywood Bowl in 1971; Belafonte was sick so he sent Cosby in his place, but Cosby worked extremely blue. My parents were shocked.
And then there was the young woman Cosby had thrown in prison for blackmail back in the 1990s.
6
Yes and that's his take - she was his biological daughter - what a real creep! No one is questioning that - how did his power and influence affect that case... He showed no mercy to his own daughter - how indifferent he must be towards women who aren't his spawn of "seed." Someone should look into that case more closely.
I am so sad for the ladies and their families. Years, years, years ago, a person I knew who had intimate knowledge of and about Mr. Cosby told me that Cosby was not a nice man. It was reported that Cosby had done some disturbing things, to many, many people. I can't help by think, one reaps what one sows, what goes around comes around. It appears that Cosby is receiving his "pay-back". ( I feel pain for his wife and children.) He, Cosby needs GOD!!!
2
By word and deed, Cosby has acknowledged himself to be a predator. He chose his prey because they were young, naive and lacked power. Often they sought him as an authority figure and he manipulated that trust for his own purposes. What some are parsing is, "When is a victim a victim?" This is a dusted-off variant of "The way she was dressed, she was just asking for it." As the father of a young daughter, I would say to the parsers, "Women's lives matter." Particularly, when they are young and vulnerable.
20
There is a real problem with this analysis. The women involved were adults, not children. If Bill Cosby had sex with those adults without consent, he should be prosecuted for it. But nothing--nothing in this article or in the transcript indicates that he committed a crime. It's very discouraging that so many readers of the NYT do not seem to grasp the basic concept of the presumption of innocence. And further do not seem to grasp the concept that when you're a 19 year old woman, you can make your own decisions about what to do with your body.
1
Fine writing by all. The news keeps getting amazinger and amazinger. I though I had seen all of the bizarre news. Cosby was a national hero going back to the '60's when we saw him on TV and got his first comedy albums. We'd gather at friends' houses to listen to them, and laughed boisterously. I remember the routines that we used to repeat.
The public latches on to these people as something bigger than life. Many of the women he met evidently were taken in by his social countenance. It's like the Lance Armstrong story, where his followers had difficulty accepting his malfeasance.
It's all part of the entertainment psychology, which, so long as we continue to believe, will go on forever.
A Bill Cosby line would be, to the question,
"Don't you think these mentor-mentee relationships were wrong?"
"Well, it depends on who's the mentor and who's the mentee."
Tah-DUM.
The public latches on to these people as something bigger than life. Many of the women he met evidently were taken in by his social countenance. It's like the Lance Armstrong story, where his followers had difficulty accepting his malfeasance.
It's all part of the entertainment psychology, which, so long as we continue to believe, will go on forever.
A Bill Cosby line would be, to the question,
"Don't you think these mentor-mentee relationships were wrong?"
"Well, it depends on who's the mentor and who's the mentee."
Tah-DUM.
3
According to my Mental Health Counselor wife, this behavior has nothing to do with sex; it has to do only with power and control over another.
Having sex with a drugged woman would be like having sex with a dead flounder.
Having sex with a drugged woman would be like having sex with a dead flounder.
22
It would, if you knocked them out entirely with something like Rohypnol. Just a few Benadryl? or a quaalude? It might just make you sleep or disoriented. Some people have stronger or milder reactions -- let's remember that a LOT of people back then took quaaludes as a recreational drug and enjoyed it!
1
In the words of Mark Slackmeyer: "That's Guilty! Guilty, Guilty, Guilty!!"
2
Mr. Cosby, pick up your pants!
8
If you believe victim-blaming is not a thing, just read a few of these comments.
1
President Obama the other day made reference that there isn't a mechanism to recind a Presidential Medal for Freedom award. That is correct, as it is unprecedented. In light of these revelations, Cosby, through his agent or attorney should return the award accompanied by a brief letter of apology to all Americans.
16
That medal will be tainted for all recipients until it is returned.
The part that has made me the most angry is that which has already made me angry with Bill Cosby: his moralizing to the Black community and Black men in particular. He has in many ways blamed the victim, and taken up a space in very public platforms to chide, to scold, to blame, all the time holding himself up as worthy of being idealized.
Cosby is a man, a person who like all of us has had his demons. To the extent to which he is sick, in my mind, is best looked at as his no doubt being in some ways really puritanical and a harsh critic to himself, and then acting out his darker sides, with violence and lust.
I am glad for the women involved that this is coming out, though I wonder about his wife. I do feel he needed long ago to get down from hid pedestal of humiliating Black people. The latter, for me, would have been so in any case, but it made all the more graphic and absurd with accounts of his conning abuse.
Beware of the hyper-moralistic in any case.
Cosby is a man, a person who like all of us has had his demons. To the extent to which he is sick, in my mind, is best looked at as his no doubt being in some ways really puritanical and a harsh critic to himself, and then acting out his darker sides, with violence and lust.
I am glad for the women involved that this is coming out, though I wonder about his wife. I do feel he needed long ago to get down from hid pedestal of humiliating Black people. The latter, for me, would have been so in any case, but it made all the more graphic and absurd with accounts of his conning abuse.
Beware of the hyper-moralistic in any case.
14
Cosby was one of my favourite comedians long ago, when I was young.
Lately, even reading anything about him, his lies and his sheer sleaziness, makes me feel as though I need a shower.
Mr. Cosby, you disgust me. Shame.
Lately, even reading anything about him, his lies and his sheer sleaziness, makes me feel as though I need a shower.
Mr. Cosby, you disgust me. Shame.
22
a sad ending to what could have been a good role model to other african Americans...
5
He was always creepy and never funny, but this?
8
My mother used to say Bill Cosby owned apartment buildings and only rented to white people .... I think it's true
3
If you are rich and famous, why not just hire a young mistress? I would imagine there would be plenty of applicants for the job.
3
It's not enough to just have sex with a woman. He needs to know that he is dominating them. Hiring someone that allows you to dominate them is not the same thing.
By drugging them without their consent he achieved this goal.
By drugging them without their consent he achieved this goal.
It seems to me this comes down to three questions: 1) Was the agreement to have sex made before or after the women took the Quaaludes? If before, it does seem reasonable to conclude that consent was given and received, and I don't know if anyone would have thought to ask again. If after, when they were altered and perhaps only semi-conscious, then consent was severely compromised. 2) Did these woman have any idea what Quaaludes were and what they'd do to them? I remember Quaaludes well, and because I was a small woman, I never took an entire pill because it would have put me to sleep. Did they know what to expect? 3) Did he always just give them to the women, in pill form, that they had to swallow themselves, or did he mix them into drinks, so they didn't know they were being drugged? Didn't one woman claim she lost consciousness after drinking coffee?
This is all very sleazy, but is it illegal? The sex part, I mean. I can't tell from this, certainly. It absolutely was illegal to give these women a drug they hadn't been prescribed, and it was illegal for the doctor to prescribe them for Cosby to give to others, though lots of them did it. And it was dangerous--Quaaludes were incredibly easy to OD on, so he risked that every time.
This is all very sleazy, but is it illegal? The sex part, I mean. I can't tell from this, certainly. It absolutely was illegal to give these women a drug they hadn't been prescribed, and it was illegal for the doctor to prescribe them for Cosby to give to others, though lots of them did it. And it was dangerous--Quaaludes were incredibly easy to OD on, so he risked that every time.
72
The women continued the relationships for years!
The women's versions differ quite a lot from Cosby's; they say that they did not consent to the drugs, i.e. he "spiked" their coffee or drinks, and they were subsequently incapacitated. Cosby is downplaying his role here as a serial rapist - remember, he's in a deposition trying to disprove his misconduct. Moreover, he truly believes his power and fame make any and all women want to have sex with him.
1
Of course, a bigger question potentially posed by defense attorneys (of greater import even than asking whether he drugged an alleged victim before or after she'd agreed to have sex) might be whether he did so before or after she'd decided to accompany him to or meet him at her place or his. What, they might ask -- and in the asking imply -- should a reasonable adult woman infer was going to happen in a situation she was complicitous in creating?
I certainly don't approve of his behavior.
But I seems like a brutally honest account, and I would call it philandering, not rape. Lots of powerful or wealthy men (JFK, Bill Clinton, Donal Trump, etc.) are callous and do the same kind of thing. It is important to distinguish so that we don't diminish the seriousness of the crime of violent rape by conflating it with Cosby's behavior.
But I seems like a brutally honest account, and I would call it philandering, not rape. Lots of powerful or wealthy men (JFK, Bill Clinton, Donal Trump, etc.) are callous and do the same kind of thing. It is important to distinguish so that we don't diminish the seriousness of the crime of violent rape by conflating it with Cosby's behavior.
10
Most intelligent comment here. Thank you.
The relevant difference between philandering and rape is consent. Once a person has been drugged, she is no longer able to give consent. She is a victim, he is a predator.
There have never been any allegations of drugging an unsuspecting woman in the instances you mention. Many people are more than willing to have sex with someone rich and famous, they may even initiate it. That is a matter of choice for both individuals. But intentionally making it difficult or impossible for someone to resist is the definition of rape. regardless of whether it is by force or by drugs.
There have never been any allegations of drugging an unsuspecting woman in the instances you mention. Many people are more than willing to have sex with someone rich and famous, they may even initiate it. That is a matter of choice for both individuals. But intentionally making it difficult or impossible for someone to resist is the definition of rape. regardless of whether it is by force or by drugs.
1
Philandering in my mind would describe the extramarital affairs of Tiger Woods, philandering implies a consensual affair. It does not describe the predatory nature of violent crimes committed by Cosby or others such as Roman Polanski.
I was just a young child during the Clinton presidency so I cannot comment on whether or not the nature of Clinton's behavior or the behavior of any of the others you mentioned, JFK and Donald Trump could philandering or could be considered more sinister crimes.
However, it is frustrating to me, that we as a society have such a challenge thinking critically when approaching complex and controversial issues, people, figures, situations, etc. For example, while we are taught to fear and codemn Cuba, the Castro brothers and their allies during the revolution, we ignore some important facts. We ignore the truth that the Castro brothers and their allies were/are progressively minded individuals who dreamed of social justice and equality in Cuba. In fact, Fidel argued in addition to the over throwing of the Batista government, the second revolution in Cuba would be for women's rights and equality. Cuba has high rates of female participation in politics and in the government. many women have been involved in politics. This is not to say Cuba does not have its problems and is guilty of various human rights abuses, however, we must look at the whole picture
I was just a young child during the Clinton presidency so I cannot comment on whether or not the nature of Clinton's behavior or the behavior of any of the others you mentioned, JFK and Donald Trump could philandering or could be considered more sinister crimes.
However, it is frustrating to me, that we as a society have such a challenge thinking critically when approaching complex and controversial issues, people, figures, situations, etc. For example, while we are taught to fear and codemn Cuba, the Castro brothers and their allies during the revolution, we ignore some important facts. We ignore the truth that the Castro brothers and their allies were/are progressively minded individuals who dreamed of social justice and equality in Cuba. In fact, Fidel argued in addition to the over throwing of the Batista government, the second revolution in Cuba would be for women's rights and equality. Cuba has high rates of female participation in politics and in the government. many women have been involved in politics. This is not to say Cuba does not have its problems and is guilty of various human rights abuses, however, we must look at the whole picture
if excessive consumption of food leads to obesity
then it is safe to say that the greedy pursuit of females for the purpose of sex
leads to disgrace and more.
young impressionable people please take this very seriously.
then it is safe to say that the greedy pursuit of females for the purpose of sex
leads to disgrace and more.
young impressionable people please take this very seriously.
Let me get this straight. In a culture that promotes sex, skinny babes in bars & casinos, sexuality, alcohol & has even endorsed perversion, now, as "marriage". Where sports & television ads & internet spots all contain sexy women & beer commercials suggest that by merely popping a can of brew...beautiful sexy women will appear out of nowhere...we jump on the back of a man who enjoys....uhm....having drinks & sex with women.
Does that sound about right?
Does that sound about right?
15
It's telling that in your overheated excusing of Cosby you omit that little dugging business.
1
There's a world of difference between "having drinks and sex with women" and drugging them and having sex with them while they are sedated and unable to give consent. That's called rape, Gene, and that's against the law. Get it now?
2
@genebulmer
His M.O. was having sex with unconscious women - after he drugged them and rendered them helpless. Not quite the same thing as "having drinks and sex with women." It's not like "they" had a romp in the hay... more one sided than that.
His M.O. was having sex with unconscious women - after he drugged them and rendered them helpless. Not quite the same thing as "having drinks and sex with women." It's not like "they" had a romp in the hay... more one sided than that.
1
I don't condone philandering or promiscuity, but consenting adults are responsible for their own actions, and these women were, to a one, consenting adults. they chose where to be, and what to put into their bodies, as well as what to allow those bodies to do. Now they are running around saying "Cosby DID this to me!" I don't buy it. THEY did it to themselves, and Bill was along for the ride.
85
Imagine a situation where an unscrupulous surgeon offers a cut rate deal. It's not clear beforehand why the price is so cheap. But afterward the patient discovers he/she has been raped while under anaesthetic. "Azzir", would you still say "they did it to themselves"?
3
Consenting adults? They were practically children that he targeted, seduced and DRUGGED to have sex with when they were incapacitated. From the deposition:
Though he portrayed the drug-taking and sex as consensual, Mr. Cosby — when asked whether Ms. Serignese was in a position to consent to sexual intercourse after he gave her quaaludes in 1976 — said: “I don’t know.”
Your defense of him is quite distorted and frightening.
Though he portrayed the drug-taking and sex as consensual, Mr. Cosby — when asked whether Ms. Serignese was in a position to consent to sexual intercourse after he gave her quaaludes in 1976 — said: “I don’t know.”
Your defense of him is quite distorted and frightening.
3
If you think you are drinking a cup of coffee but instead your drinking a sedative, that's not choice or consent.
3
The NEGATIVE: Cosby uses his fame, his so called intuition, drugs, consent, provides his own version of the sexually escapade and admits to it publicly. Therefore, in my opinion it somewhat negates what the women are claiming rather than validate them.
The POSITIVE: Maybe, just maybe these women can empower their voices to become a champion of women's rights - not only for themselves, but for the world around them.
The PROBLEM is that society as a whole place way too much value on success, fame and fortune which can mislead a persons belief in life.
SOLUTION: Rethinking the way in which we educate.
The POSITIVE: Maybe, just maybe these women can empower their voices to become a champion of women's rights - not only for themselves, but for the world around them.
The PROBLEM is that society as a whole place way too much value on success, fame and fortune which can mislead a persons belief in life.
SOLUTION: Rethinking the way in which we educate.
3
It's disgusting to watch how the media relish this story, where were all these fuss at the time when women file lawsuits, charged him, asked for help? At that time the media kept silent. But now, now it is a beautiful newsworthy...
11
You already explained it with one word: media.
"Bill Cosby admitted to all of this and more over four days of intense questioning 10 years ago at a Philadelphia hotel ..."
The real issue is why it took so long. How many of us were making some good money too tagging on to Cosby's success!
The real issue is why it took so long. How many of us were making some good money too tagging on to Cosby's success!
3
Mr. Cosby has effectively written the headline of his eventual obituary. Like Lance Armstrong, the negative will be what Cosby is remembered for. Which is as it should be.
14
Remember Cosby's "Spanish Fly" and women comedy routines? How true they turned out to be. Cosby a role model? No, Cosby the creep.
21
Doesn't all this just recall Rolf Harris' persona and his crimes (to those of you who followed the case in the UK): the benign comedian and children's entertainer, who utterly lacks empathy?
That is what is more crucial to me in this case - that Cosby might well sell himself (i.e. to others) as "someone who reads women's emotions and desires" but he really doesn't care one bit about them.
What is more to the point: are these not more accurately the words of a sociopath?
That is what is more crucial to me in this case - that Cosby might well sell himself (i.e. to others) as "someone who reads women's emotions and desires" but he really doesn't care one bit about them.
What is more to the point: are these not more accurately the words of a sociopath?
29
Shame on us for creating an environment in which Cosby's victims felt they could not come forward and get justice. I am so grateful for those who are working hard to change this.
30
not that i'm defending mr cosby but why would the nyt publish a deposition from 10 years ago?
is there any shred of privacy anymore?
are there any laws preventing this type of disclosure?
from a layman's point of view, a settlement was made 10 years ago
a confidentiality clause that was part of the settlement appears to have been violated
through what appears to be a misinterpretation, while the memorandum was prohibited from being released, the deposition wasn't
again, i'm not defending cosby but in today's society, these accusations are ancient history
the man has been disgraced by his own actions through his own words
nothing can be gained by continually harping on this subject other than titillating the American public
is there any shred of privacy anymore?
are there any laws preventing this type of disclosure?
from a layman's point of view, a settlement was made 10 years ago
a confidentiality clause that was part of the settlement appears to have been violated
through what appears to be a misinterpretation, while the memorandum was prohibited from being released, the deposition wasn't
again, i'm not defending cosby but in today's society, these accusations are ancient history
the man has been disgraced by his own actions through his own words
nothing can be gained by continually harping on this subject other than titillating the American public
7
Yes, your are defending Cosby.....
2
I suppose that by continually harping on this subject the goal is to destroy completely any shred of moral superiority that Mr. Cosby has maintained he has.
2
@Captain Ern: Only a man would say of women who have been (at a minimum) sexually assaulted that "these accusations are ancient history."
Firstly, Mr. Cosby is CONFIRMING the accuracy of "these accusations" (at least up to that point in time).
Secondly, if your wife/girlfriend/sister/daughter had been one of the women this was done to, I don't imagine you'd be so cavalier about the matter. (Although if you *were* cavalier, it might explain why you think this is "ancient history.")
Thirdly, you say "nothing can be gained by continually harping on this subject other than titillating the American public" - and you could not be more wrong!
Firstly, Mr. Cosby is CONFIRMING the accuracy of "these accusations" (at least up to that point in time).
Secondly, if your wife/girlfriend/sister/daughter had been one of the women this was done to, I don't imagine you'd be so cavalier about the matter. (Although if you *were* cavalier, it might explain why you think this is "ancient history.")
Thirdly, you say "nothing can be gained by continually harping on this subject other than titillating the American public" - and you could not be more wrong!
2
Unfortunately, Hollywood is "shocked" by Bill Cosby's behavior. What % of studio heads, producers, directors, etc have used their position to demand sex from aspiring actors? A conspiracy of silence exists because so few hands are clean and because money fuels the machine.
18
I remember him on the Johnny Carson show a long, long time ago saying, with a twinkle in his eye, that his wife, Camille, is Catholic, and how great that is because "Catholic wives can't say 'no'". It creeped me out then, but I had no idea just how misogynistic he really was. What a disappointment!
17
How could he? I feel betrayed. I grew up watching him and his romance with his on screen wife, the powerful Claire Huxtable. Now I learn that off screen he was drugging and then raping women, thinking its another form of romance. Shame on you Bill Cosby.
7
He did not rape anyone. He shared Quads which I recall was a custom at the time. If we didn't have drugs to share women would think us total square. Young journalists have no concept of the 70s.
There is a sense in which no one can give informed consent to a drug and its effects, not even those who have done research on it. Casual, and habitual, users of many drugs which affect the mind; however, do. I suppose they consent to the leap into the void that is necessarily involved.
1
True but the consent to "leap into the void" is not a consent to be raped. People "leap into the void" frequently with alcohol alone and noone expects that their "friends" will do terrible things to them while they are incapacitated.
1
Rich generous man wines and dines lots and lots of young ladies, for sex. This is not news. Not in 2015, not in 1990, won't be in 2100, probably wasn't in AD 1000.
Man encourages woman to get stoned (on Quaaludes, wine, whatever) to have sex. Woman agrees to get stoned and then has sex. This is not news either.
Man has sex with woman a few times and then drops her merely so he can have sex with a new woman. Still not news.
Where's the beef? The dude is black, I get that, anything else?
Man encourages woman to get stoned (on Quaaludes, wine, whatever) to have sex. Woman agrees to get stoned and then has sex. This is not news either.
Man has sex with woman a few times and then drops her merely so he can have sex with a new woman. Still not news.
Where's the beef? The dude is black, I get that, anything else?
15
Woman doesn't know what the pill is~it's non-consensual~that's the beef, and you~MAN~don't get it. Shame!
Weirdly enough, there is a racial component here -- Cosby is not just rich and very famous, but black. It seems that most of the young women here are white (I don't know about all of them). Isn't SOME Of the outrage that a BLACK movie star would do this to "poor pitiful little white girls"?
Would people think it was rape if the movie star was Robert Redford?
Would people think it was rape if the movie star was Robert Redford?
I remember Quaaludes in the 70's. People would give them away like candy. Usually women and teenagers had them. They made you feel good. I remember passing out from them once. But I also remember everything that was happening up until that point of sleep. There were many fun times. I also remember being in a disagreeable situation and saying no. They made me loopy, for sure, but in control of my thoughts and knew my capacities. I guess I'm just trying to describe the era and the drug. Giving anything to someone without their knowledge is wrong. Having sex with someone that's passed out is weird and criminal.
12
"In the deposition, he said he was worried that Ms. Constand’s mother would think of him as a “dirty old man.”
Cosby is and has been for a long time a "dirty old man", one who has violated the law and evaded justice. It is about time for him to pay for what he did and for his inexcusable and inexplicable denial of what his actions really constitute.
Cosby is and has been for a long time a "dirty old man", one who has violated the law and evaded justice. It is about time for him to pay for what he did and for his inexcusable and inexplicable denial of what his actions really constitute.
17
America's Jimmy Savile... an untouchable hero who used his influence to take advantage of women and every one just looked the other way. He should be in jail.
25
In the midst of his rising stardom, Cosby was a predator, a carnivore; over time and accumulation of wealth and influence he has adjusted his persona and hopefully, his conduct. Now though, his legacy is at risk and although he escaped public censure by paying for silence; that concealment is destroyed and revelations may reveal all. Bill Cosby, accountable, is trying to hide to protect his ego, his wealth and his influence; time and truth will tell.
6
Consensual sex is sexual intimacy that occurs between two people who discuss the plan to have sex before 'going for it'; consensual sex does not require that one person intoxicate the other, much less drug them with knock-out drugs or powerful sedatives; consensual sex does not require 'paying off' any participant, because the participant is willing, experienced and informed ahead of time, given a choice to refuse. Sex workers receive payments because they would not agree to engage in the sexual activity for free -- which tells you a great deal about their perception of the person they willingly service. Sexual slavery is always illegal, as well as being sadistic and evil on the part of the tormentor. People in captivity, bondage or under duress cannot give consent. Applying such basic logic, we can all see there is a great deal more rape, sexual violence & sexual coercion out there than the perpetrators are willing to own up to. It is time to make full disclosure & truthfulness an essential feature of all intimacy between adults. Talk about it before you do it. Snap a selfie. Exchange texts. Make sure you have consent! And if you have been robbed of your right to say, "No, not interested," even by a famous or powerful figure, please, do everyone a favor & report the assault. Bill Cosby raped many more women than have come forward to date. The mountain of evidence is damning.
10
I'm a pretty old school, modest person in their 50s, and I did not ever "discuss" whether I was going to have sex with a boyfriend. A lot of it IS emotional and physical and body language. Now -- if I had clearly said "NO", I would have expected the man to back off promptly. But I don't see that in the Cosby cases -- I do not hear any stories of "I told him NO and he just went ahead anyhow".
It is not realistic to expect young couples to write down (!!!) agreements to have sexual intercourse, which is rarely planned like that. Or take selfless (or WHAT? themselves naked?)
The problem here is that I believe most of the young women DID consent to coming to Cosby's home....knowing he was a married man. They DID consent to flirting and making out, and they all seemed to want his advice, influence, jobs, money. They all seemed to have AGREED to drink and take recreational drugs in his presence.
They ALL seem to have decided AFTER THE FACT, that they were raped or coerced or seduced -- because they were ashamed of how they acted, when it turned out he was not a mentor but a sleaze. Cosby is far from the first powerful rich man who held out a carrot of "career assistance" or money to a woman, in order that she agreed to sex.....with no intention of following through.
That is sleazy and that makes him a total jerk. It does not make him a racist. Women have to grow up and accept some agency for the decisions they make -- including bad, stupid decisions.
It is not realistic to expect young couples to write down (!!!) agreements to have sexual intercourse, which is rarely planned like that. Or take selfless (or WHAT? themselves naked?)
The problem here is that I believe most of the young women DID consent to coming to Cosby's home....knowing he was a married man. They DID consent to flirting and making out, and they all seemed to want his advice, influence, jobs, money. They all seemed to have AGREED to drink and take recreational drugs in his presence.
They ALL seem to have decided AFTER THE FACT, that they were raped or coerced or seduced -- because they were ashamed of how they acted, when it turned out he was not a mentor but a sleaze. Cosby is far from the first powerful rich man who held out a carrot of "career assistance" or money to a woman, in order that she agreed to sex.....with no intention of following through.
That is sleazy and that makes him a total jerk. It does not make him a racist. Women have to grow up and accept some agency for the decisions they make -- including bad, stupid decisions.
1
Ironic that Cosby used the name Rapaport as an alias, since the Rapaport family is known as Philadelphia's preeminent slumlords and have numerous citations for allowing their properties in Center City to remain derelict for decades. Another example of someone on a massive entitlement trip, buoyed by the heady aftermath of the 1960s race riots and fueled by a big cash flow, to do whatever he wanted. When I was growing up in Pennsylvania, rape was a capital crime under certain circumstances, but of course, we would never think of such an extreme punishment for this eminent figure. As always in America, one sees a separate set of laws governing the rich and privileged.
8
Just a cave man with a club. Pathetic.
14
While Cosby is a pig, why were all these women so anxious to go out with a man they knew to be married? Did they think he "wanted to be friends?" Did they go to his room "to just talk?" I believe they deserve some remuneration, but to carry on as though they were violently sexually assaulted when they were there to trade sex for whatever it is they wanted from a nasty old man is an entirely different thing.
15
It seems awfully clear they wanted favors -- career advice, or the connections/networking for a job, or just cash -- and he was rich and powerful. They courted him, despite knowing he was in a long-term marriage. Perhaps some of them hoped he would fall in love with them, and leave his wife for them.
I think they were seduced and deceived, but THAT IS NOT RAPE. It's sad. He is undoubtedly a creep and a jerk. But that does not make him a rapist.
It is a terrible insult to women who suffered violent assaults, and physical abuse, to say that women who were wined and dined by a movie star -- but then did not get the jobs or career advice he promised -- were also raped.
We are redefining rape to mean not a violent assault, but "being disappointed in the outcome of a hook-up or one night stand" -- and that has very troubling implications.
I think they were seduced and deceived, but THAT IS NOT RAPE. It's sad. He is undoubtedly a creep and a jerk. But that does not make him a rapist.
It is a terrible insult to women who suffered violent assaults, and physical abuse, to say that women who were wined and dined by a movie star -- but then did not get the jobs or career advice he promised -- were also raped.
We are redefining rape to mean not a violent assault, but "being disappointed in the outcome of a hook-up or one night stand" -- and that has very troubling implications.
1
If he were a disciplined, moral man committed to his marriage none of this would've happened. His poor choices is why his life is unraveling.
Seduction is fine. So what if he sweet talks young girls. No damage done. He sounds quite the seducer.
Drugging and molestation or rape..different story...isnt that illegal.
Drugging and molestation or rape..different story...isnt that illegal.
8
America makes hero too easily of entertainers. I have never found Cosby to be funny, never a role of model, never a father figure, never a hero. I just don't get it.
That he's a lecherous old man is neither a shock nor not a shock. He is like any man.
That he's a lecherous old man is neither a shock nor not a shock. He is like any man.
5
The after-dinner brandy and cigars tone of Cosby's deposed remarks tells me he was bragging naughty to the men in the room. You can almost hear the reluctant chuckles.
3
I've stayed away from this story, made no comments, assumptions. But this sleazy hubris is the last straw: " Mr. Cosby said he tended to refrain from intercourse because he did not want women to fall in love with him. "
Give me a break!
Give me a break!
28
My 1st sexual experience was initiated with an invitation to smoke weed. At what point do we admit that most sexual initiation by its very definition is an act of coercion? We live in a bi-polar society, but at least up to this point that bi-polarity was accepted as honest. Now we are redefining indignation and humiliation as honesty, unless of course its affiliated with unclean things like our lingering civil wars.
30
I don't know what you mean by "sexual initiation," but if you mean two people engaging in a consensual sexual experience, it should never be "an act of coercion!"
The thing that distinguishes sex from rape is consent. If someone offers you weed and you smoke the weed and then engage in consensual sex, that is not a crime. If someone slips a drug in your drink that renders you unconscious and then engages in a sex act with you while you're unable to conset, that is sexual assault. It's really very simple.
The thing that distinguishes sex from rape is consent. If someone offers you weed and you smoke the weed and then engage in consensual sex, that is not a crime. If someone slips a drug in your drink that renders you unconscious and then engages in a sex act with you while you're unable to conset, that is sexual assault. It's really very simple.
2
Is this where we are headed? Where people will honestly believe that "most sexual initiation by its very definition is an act of coercion"? What a sad and depressing state of affairs that would be. It is equivalent to believing that "most" who engage in sexual activities are victims, no doubt joyless, angry ones who derive no pleasure, but lots hostility from having consented to sex initiated by another. They don't need the guilt and shame that are the byproducts of Judeo-Christian puritanism in order to dislike or even hate sex (or men).
When "most" sexual partners are victims of coercion--presumably by males--and therefore their participation is not truly consensual, "most" of the "initiated" become victims of rape. For coercion vitiates genuine consent, and nonconsensual sex is by definition rape. This sort of thinking would make rapists out of "most" men and women who merely "initiated" sex. Like I stated: sad and depressing.
When "most" sexual partners are victims of coercion--presumably by males--and therefore their participation is not truly consensual, "most" of the "initiated" become victims of rape. For coercion vitiates genuine consent, and nonconsensual sex is by definition rape. This sort of thinking would make rapists out of "most" men and women who merely "initiated" sex. Like I stated: sad and depressing.
2
Why by it's very definition is sexual initiation an act of coercion? That doesn't make sense.
When I was in elementary school, around 1970, Mr. Cosby came out with a terrific book for kids explaining the dangers of drugs. The book used direct, simple language that kids could readily understand. It showed photographs of drugs like cocaine and heroin, and listed both the drugs' medical names and street names. The book also explained the temporary thrill of getting high and the lifelong suffering and medical problems that could result from getting hooked. I took that book seriously, and as a teenager, it helped me to ignore peer pressure and steer clear of drugs.
There are many shocking, disturbing and disappointing aspects to these revelations of Cosby's treatment of young women. It is extremely sad to hear about the disgusting personal behavior of this brilliant and funny man. It is sad to see a popular role model revealed as a hypocrite. But on top of it all, I am particularly saddened to hear about his use of date-rape drugs. He helped so many of us to stay away from drugs, and it angers me now to hear the way he used drugs to rape women.
There are many shocking, disturbing and disappointing aspects to these revelations of Cosby's treatment of young women. It is extremely sad to hear about the disgusting personal behavior of this brilliant and funny man. It is sad to see a popular role model revealed as a hypocrite. But on top of it all, I am particularly saddened to hear about his use of date-rape drugs. He helped so many of us to stay away from drugs, and it angers me now to hear the way he used drugs to rape women.
42
Classic predatory behaviour!
This man is a monster!
Comments Whoopi Goldberg??????
This man is a monster!
Comments Whoopi Goldberg??????
21
So Cosby seduced women? That's all he deposed. Big deal. Of course if you want to say that is rape by your lights, feel free. This controversy is long since out of reach of rational discussion.
9
there are victims on both sides of this issue. ha (remember the judge from South Carolina?) one of the best little sound bytes one could ask for.
1
What's almost as fascinating as these revelations is the desire on the part of his apologists to continue defending him. What this says about their psychology, and the cult of celebrity in America, I'm not sure, but we had a similar situation in California in 2003 when a number of women came forward with accusations about Arnold. They were shouted down into submission and the LA Times, which did some solid reporting on the accusations, was also shouted down. People here reacted with indignation that anyone would dare tarnish Arnold's reputation. So much for the fate of the victims!
37
Yes and his wife also spoke up for him and slandered his victims. Isn't that something.
BILL COSBY
Though I rarely cared for Cosby's long winded style nor did I find his ability as an actor underwhelming ... I saw a tape of a show he did before an admiring audience (before the sex scandal surfaced). I enjoyed it so much, I ordered a DVD of it.
I also found the comments he made about the underclass being more responsible for their cultural values both true and took bravery.
Now, in sum I find the entire situation to be very sad for all involved.
Though I rarely cared for Cosby's long winded style nor did I find his ability as an actor underwhelming ... I saw a tape of a show he did before an admiring audience (before the sex scandal surfaced). I enjoyed it so much, I ordered a DVD of it.
I also found the comments he made about the underclass being more responsible for their cultural values both true and took bravery.
Now, in sum I find the entire situation to be very sad for all involved.
9
The transcript does not surprise me, but let's not forget that there is far more than this one case. There have been about 40+ women who have come out to say that they were drugged by this man and then raped. This is criminal behavior. It is not "...a guy being a guy", as some seem to be saying here in this very Comment section or that "...it's just the thing you get in Hollywood--and hey-it's been going on for years. Nothing new here". Or that we should look at all these other famous men in history: Thomas Jefferson owning slaves, Woody Allen and dubious behavior in the family. Drugging women against their will and then raping them? It's not on the same playing field. And the swath is considerable: both black and white women, secretaries, aspiring/actual Playboy bunnies, actresses/aspiring actresses, students, fans...super-models...the list goes on and on. The arrogance and the pompous, ego-maniacal stance is what's so distasteful to me and it's palpable here in these excerpts--for the world to see...may more be revealed, and for the sake of these women, let the healing begin.
27
Thank you!!!
1
If I didn't know better, I would think that, for decades, our legal and law enforcement systems assiduously shielded a predatory monster from prosecution. Instead of protecting unsuspecting young women, some of whom were barely out of their teens, the system shielded the sexual predator, allowing him to continue to rape and traumatize his victims.
Cosby was a Jekyll and Hyde figure: a model father by day and a sexual predator armed with sedatives by night. He is lucky that none of his victims had a bad reaction to the Mickeys he slipped them. What is even more shocking than Cosby's repeated episodes of felony assault with drugs leading to rape of the sedated women, is the fact that for years, lawyers, including prosecutors and judges, helped bury the evidence that Cosby was a serial rapist. They're complicit. Maybe we need a new version of "Megan's Law" so that the public will have the right to know if someone is a serial sexual predator targeting **adults**, with no exception for predators who happen to be rich and famous. Whose side are we on, anyway?
Cosby was a Jekyll and Hyde figure: a model father by day and a sexual predator armed with sedatives by night. He is lucky that none of his victims had a bad reaction to the Mickeys he slipped them. What is even more shocking than Cosby's repeated episodes of felony assault with drugs leading to rape of the sedated women, is the fact that for years, lawyers, including prosecutors and judges, helped bury the evidence that Cosby was a serial rapist. They're complicit. Maybe we need a new version of "Megan's Law" so that the public will have the right to know if someone is a serial sexual predator targeting **adults**, with no exception for predators who happen to be rich and famous. Whose side are we on, anyway?
39
Is there a more repellent person in America than Bill Cosby? Just the sight of him makes me want to vomit.
17
I'll put any number of republican politicians on that list and throw in Sean Hannity to boot
Here is a "man", a term I use very loosely, and he assumes he must drug, rape and overwhelm women he wants to harm. He does not have enough self-respect to think that MAYBE a woman might just want to have sex with him, because they like him.
Also of note: he seems to have avoided sexual intercourse and preferred other means of sex, probably because he had sexual performance problems. And the only way he could feel "ok" was when the woman was drugged and "not even there."
Wow! What a sicko! How can our so-called society allow and protect such?
Also of note: he seems to have avoided sexual intercourse and preferred other means of sex, probably because he had sexual performance problems. And the only way he could feel "ok" was when the woman was drugged and "not even there."
Wow! What a sicko! How can our so-called society allow and protect such?
13
I'm a little confused how this was supposed to be a smoking gun.
He's a hypocrite, sure, but that's not illegal. An awful human being who used his fame to have sex with lots of woman? Probably.
But there's nothing here that's new.
Two of the women admitted taking the drugs with full knowledge of what they were taking.
One of the accusers is a disbarred lawyer with mental issues, disbarred because she stole a large settlement from her client, and mental issues because a judge ruled she needed to seek psychiatric help before she could be reinstated. She never did and never was. then there's a prostitute who was found guilty of multiple crimes.
Another of the accusers said she met Cosby at a specific show at a specific date, but he was never there. Another young black comedian was.
The list goes on and on.
I have no idea if Cosby is a rapist or a serial philanderer, and nothing here adds any new evidence or insight.
He's a hypocrite, sure, but that's not illegal. An awful human being who used his fame to have sex with lots of woman? Probably.
But there's nothing here that's new.
Two of the women admitted taking the drugs with full knowledge of what they were taking.
One of the accusers is a disbarred lawyer with mental issues, disbarred because she stole a large settlement from her client, and mental issues because a judge ruled she needed to seek psychiatric help before she could be reinstated. She never did and never was. then there's a prostitute who was found guilty of multiple crimes.
Another of the accusers said she met Cosby at a specific show at a specific date, but he was never there. Another young black comedian was.
The list goes on and on.
I have no idea if Cosby is a rapist or a serial philanderer, and nothing here adds any new evidence or insight.
14
This is the beauty of being America - no one is above the law, well, almost no one. The rule of law works even in high places. Well done America, in letting New York Times do a good independent job.
3
Cosby's is a serial rapist. His account is chilling. His manipulative behavior, lack of empathy and cavalier attitude are qualities of a sociopath.
25
How you have been able to conclude that Bill Cosby "is a serial rapist" is quite beyond me. While I don't defend his behavior, he has never been charged with a crime, and a jury has never listened to evidence in order to decide whether he is guilty of sexual assault beyond a reasonable doubt. It is quite shocking that so many NYT readers and commenters are either unwilling or unable to understand and apply the basic principle of the presumption of innocence in our democracy.
Just to be clear; I am a liberal but I do not, NOT, in any way, shape or form, support the deplorable actions of this monster.
2
I am glad you clarified that, Robert. We were all wondering.
1
What makes you think ANY liberal would condone such actions? What a foolish thing to say!
1
Huh? What does that have to do with being a 'liberal'??? What's the connection?
I recall the man who raped me years ago, a stranger, going on and on about what a great time he was having, what he liked, what he wanted me to do to him, etc...while I was pinned down, begging him to stop, saying "no, no, no, please no, please stop.." and crying.
It hurt so much, I remember that clearly, but he just wouldn't stop, and kept pretending I LIKED what was happening over my protests. Horrible way to lose your virginity and I've had trust issues ever since.
The cognitive dissonance, if that's what it was, was incredible. Afterward he kept calling me darling, till I finally got away...
So, I know what it's like when a man claims to know what you want...it doesn't matter how much you say "no". He'll pretend you want it anyway because what HE wants, and HIS experience, is all that matters. No matter the consequences the for woman he's raping.
It hurt so much, I remember that clearly, but he just wouldn't stop, and kept pretending I LIKED what was happening over my protests. Horrible way to lose your virginity and I've had trust issues ever since.
The cognitive dissonance, if that's what it was, was incredible. Afterward he kept calling me darling, till I finally got away...
So, I know what it's like when a man claims to know what you want...it doesn't matter how much you say "no". He'll pretend you want it anyway because what HE wants, and HIS experience, is all that matters. No matter the consequences the for woman he's raping.
53
I am sorry. I read a comment like yours and it makes me cry, and then I read some man on here, and some women too! claiming Cosby is just a womanizer, and that's when I feel the rage. But rage can be good. Rage can get stuff done.
Interesting how the Huffington Post editorial board opted to use the term rape as the subtext for their lead story on Bill Cosby. While their stories which immediately followed--- those on Donald Trump and the Chattanooga shooter, neither of whom were branded with the subtext racist or mass-murderer? Where is the due process or presumption of innocence?
7
Heartbroken, disgusted. At loss for other words.
1
Without his consent, Bill Cosby will be brought down by these women who he raped.
8
The question remains: How many women have to say they've been drugged and raped before they're believed? Seriously, why are women considered so untrustworthy, so quick to falsely accuse men?
Studies have shown that only 2% of all crimes, including rape and molestation, are falsely reported. Only 2%. And yet women are still universally suspected of making this stuff up. Why? Why?
Studies have shown that only 2% of all crimes, including rape and molestation, are falsely reported. Only 2%. And yet women are still universally suspected of making this stuff up. Why? Why?
32
you know the answer
3
There have been many highly publicized cases of people reporting that they have been sexually assaulted when it is later determined that they were not. For example, please see Tawana Brawley, the Duke lacrosse case, the University of Virginia rape case as initially reported in "Rolling Stone" magazine, and the Strauss-Kahn (French diplomat initially arrested in New York after his maid claimed that she was raped) case.
In addition, the Innocence Project is probably best known for proving that death row inmates did not commit the homicides that they were accused of perpetrating. However, the majority of successful Innocence Project cases resolve exoneration of inmates accused of sex crimes.
In addition, the Innocence Project is probably best known for proving that death row inmates did not commit the homicides that they were accused of perpetrating. However, the majority of successful Innocence Project cases resolve exoneration of inmates accused of sex crimes.
1
"Seriously, why are women considered so untrustworthy, so quick to falsely accuse men?..."
Why? Because there's money involved --the women have a financial incentive to lie.
Why? Because there's money involved --the women have a financial incentive to lie.
2
What’s truly amazing about this whole situation is guys like Cosby NEVER have to drug women to get them in to bed,so what was his motivation for this?This man has a mental disorder. I’ve never understood rapists,even more so the ones that are famous and wealthy.There are just too many willing women around.He has ruined everything he built up,not to mention the lives of the women he did this to. There’s no excuse for what he did.....
9
It just so happens that one of the greatest comedians of the second half of the twentieth century was also - seemingly - someone who believed rendering women unconscious and then sexually using them was okay. Apparently he made a habit of it.
If this is true - as I believe - it is a criminal history explained by the individual psychology and nature of Mr Cosby. Not by his "race", not by his country, not by his sex and not by his species. And especially not by the general relations and differences between the sexes of our time.
If this is true - as I believe - it is a criminal history explained by the individual psychology and nature of Mr Cosby. Not by his "race", not by his country, not by his sex and not by his species. And especially not by the general relations and differences between the sexes of our time.
3
Amazing some men have to drug women just to have sex in this day and age. Now is that not a real loser or what?
3
Interesting that Ms. Constand continued such a flawed relationship.
2
Victim blaming much?
High talent performers-- like Mr. Cosby, like O.J. Simpson-- at the center of ongoing enterprises that make the owners of those businesses outrageously rich and create jobs for thousands of others are treated like royalty (i.e., exempted from constraints of ordinary decent behavior and face no accountability for their debauchery). They live in a psychological bubble of privilege sustained by the business enterprise around them and, as recipients of royal treatment always do, acclimate themselves to it. Like royalty, talent gets lavished with rewards not for punching a clock, but for who they are. Aberrant behavior in such an unconstrained situation is completely predictable. Modern celebrities of entertainment, sports, music behave in ways that would make the perverse high nobility of medieval France blush. A sub economy services this talent class with luxury cars, real estate, drugs, boats, sexual partners and so on. Some of their antics, especially petty self destructive naughtiness, makes for fun press, but some of it must be kept secret to protect the franchise from damage. And so, now it's out there that Mr. Cosby's on-stage character is a fiction. And that people with power, money and license to be sociopaths exploit others. Well, what a surprise. Did his sociopathic famous self confuse who he was before he became famous with his fictional character? I guess so. So who is stupider, him, us or the people who put their vulnerable selves near him?
7
Camille, another woman standing by her Bill.
3
"He was not above seducing a young model by showing interest in her father’s cancer."
I can't believe you would trivialize the very serious subject of this article with such a puritanically sanctimonious opening sentence (and the entire first paragraph follows suit). Feigning interest is just one of the many things that both men and women often DO when they're attracted to someone. The tone of certain parts of this article evokes the worst kind of British tabloid.
I can't believe you would trivialize the very serious subject of this article with such a puritanically sanctimonious opening sentence (and the entire first paragraph follows suit). Feigning interest is just one of the many things that both men and women often DO when they're attracted to someone. The tone of certain parts of this article evokes the worst kind of British tabloid.
12
While he may not go to prison, and all of it will cost him some serious money, and possibly his marriage, I think the most remarkable punishment is one that no person, no judicial entity, not even Mr. Cosby can undo: his legacy as a human being, an artist, a man--demolished by his own hand, forever dirtied by his own monstrous ego, his own pathetically impotent weaknesses and his own Machiavellian deceit and delusional sense of importance. Mr. Cosby is nobody's husband, nobody's father, nobody's hero, nobody's respected elder artist. For the statements in that deposition alone, he deserves the total shunning of this nation and the world that once respected him. Imagine, this nation and the whole world, loathing you for who you actually are. For who you, in your own words, said you are, Mr. Cosby. By your own hand, Mr. Cosby, by your own hand.
18
Guaranteed --- it will not "cost him his marriage." Mrs. Cosby has known for years and has accepted it.
1
Drugging women so they will be available for sex seems like rape to me.
12
At 13 years old, I was raped by a respected "Church Youth Leader," after leaving choir rehearsal who offered me a ride home from church. A older friend gave him my number. (Recently, someone called "little prissy ------" which brought back anger, bad memories). This man terrorized (told me he would kill me if I ever left him) for years until took a job; moved away(across country). He called my job and threatened me when I broke it off. I later told my mom(whom I should have told earlier, but I was afraid). And many years later, I told my choir director and she told me, "no one would have ever believed you!" I think now, had I gone to a hospital for a rape kit, it would have become evident there was rape of some kind, but being black, living where I lived, it probably would have been a great fiasco. When I was young, men were frightening, I never allowed myself to be alone with creepy types, ever, even now. I refused all dates, would not accept a drink, have dinner or allow them to be alone with me with "the creepy types." Was this young woman's act consensual? Was she teasing him by going on more than one date? It was wrong; he was much older, married and she accepted payment. I've always thought Cosby to be creepy.
5
BTW, the Religious Rapist was Baptist; Christian; a Bible thumper that bragged to his best friend that he liked virgins.
Cosby is a sick man, but as so many others are pointing out; it's the nature of the business, time times they were living in; how many other superstars are creeping young women as we speak? When they get older it will come out, but for now the women (an now probably young men) are enduring disgusting behavior.
Thanks for everyone who is posting, you are helping me in tremendous ways. I haven't come to terms with this the way I should have, this is therapy to the wounded.
Cosby is a sick man, but as so many others are pointing out; it's the nature of the business, time times they were living in; how many other superstars are creeping young women as we speak? When they get older it will come out, but for now the women (an now probably young men) are enduring disgusting behavior.
Thanks for everyone who is posting, you are helping me in tremendous ways. I haven't come to terms with this the way I should have, this is therapy to the wounded.
There is nothing here but a headline. First of all, a deposition is an adversarial situation for the person being interviewed/grilled. It is intended to trip a person up with embarrassing and impertinent questions. Mr. Cosby comes of pretty good considering the intent was to make him seem like a monster. To make a headline “deposition reveals calculated pursuit of young women using fame drugs deceit.” People popped quaaludes all the time back then, he’s right. And who wouldn’t use their position to get girls. Rock and Roll is built on it. The entire first paragraph is the real sleight of hand in this article.
Doesn't mean women aren't telling the truth either, they probably are, but unfair biased reporting doesn't help.
Doesn't mean women aren't telling the truth either, they probably are, but unfair biased reporting doesn't help.
9
Some comedian quipped it perfectly in the last week:
"Bill Cosby is the OJ Simpson of the acting world."
"Bill Cosby is the OJ Simpson of the acting world."
6
This is rape, as horrific a crime as is possible. Cosby is repugnant, criminal. We need justice here, in a court of law, open and transparent, and if / when Cosby is found guilty of the criminal acts of multiple rapes, he should serve the remainder of his life in prison, and his enormous estate divided up amongst his victims.
13
Bravo, well said. He's just a criminal, nothing more. He did what he did because he thought his fame and fortune would allow him to get away with it, and for a while, he did get away with it. Well, Bill - time to pay the piper.
The most intriguing part of these Cosby stories is that based on his influence, money and fame, there were no doubt that many volunteers would have been happy and willing to have sex with him. Yet he drugged all these victims in order to have sex with them. This is a very sick man.
11
The secondary victim(s) of the whole Cosby drama are the owners of the intellectual property Mr. Cosby participated in creating over the years. The cash flow from reruns of those shows on cable television is certain to take a nose dive.
6
In 1969 my family went to NYC: Promises, Promises, Man of La Mancha, the Tonight Show before Johnny went West. Bill Cosby was kind of a walk on guest to the show and everyone went wild. But me. As an almost 14 year old I hated how he "strutted" out with this huge cigar. Loud. Unfunny. Never was a fan until his first show. Loved how he handled tough situations especially when Theo wanted to move out of the house and the family pretended to be the cruel world taking all his money, that he didn't have. Or with Rudy, "Bud" and the other kids. So this is tough. I really thought he had something. It's more than tough, it's sad. But I'll always have Jerry Orbach and Jill O'Hara.
2
Cosby should be spending his days in prison, just like Roman Polanski.
16
As should Woody Allen
I'm pretty sure that if I did anything like that, or made testimony even a quarter as bad as this, that I'd be in jail - but then again I'm not rich and famous.
What Mr. Cosby describes is downright criminal, or am I missing something?
What Mr. Cosby describes is downright criminal, or am I missing something?
16
Bill Cosby = serial rapist!
He should go to jail and have his crimes revisited on him for each woman he victimized. Then, his entire fortune should be divided equally between his victims.
#BillCosbySerialRapist #Rape #BillCosby
He should go to jail and have his crimes revisited on him for each woman he victimized. Then, his entire fortune should be divided equally between his victims.
#BillCosbySerialRapist #Rape #BillCosby
11
'Quaalude' is a brand name for the generic methaqualone. Using the term 'quaaludes' seems beneath NYT journalistic standards - just as you wouldn't write that an actor was arrested for possession of 'reefer.'
9
"Calculated pursuit of women"
Check
"Using fame"
Check
"Using drugs"
Check
"Using deceit"
How does this fail to be an accurate description of the deposition's contents?
Check
"Using fame"
Check
"Using drugs"
Check
"Using deceit"
How does this fail to be an accurate description of the deposition's contents?
16
None of that convicts him, heyblondie, but it does make him look sleazy.
2
He's absolutely gross, no question, but I don't get why people continue to call him a rapist. He has yet to admit to sexually assaulting anyone, and all of the women were given quaaludes with their own consent. He has not admitted to rape, which is what the consensus seems to be.
5
"...and all of the women were given quaaludes with their own consent." This has been shown? Really Casey?
Because ALL of the women said that he drugged them and then raped them. Do you think ALL these women in their 70's, more than 2 dozen and counting are lying ? Why would anyone believe this man ?
1
Cosby in the seventies was a very frequent visitor to the Playboy club where sex and drugs were readily available. If you really want to know the tons of sexual activity by Cosby, while on drugs, I'm certain Hefner could fill us in. But he feigns senility.
6
They had some drinks, took some drugs, and had sex. I haven't read any evidence beyond a reasonable doubt establishing lack of consent. Verdict: Not guilty of any crime.
Guilty of not fitting a racist stereotype of how black men should behave in polite society. If the WASP Mad Men TV show character Don Draper did these things (he did), it would be considered rakish and sexy.
Guilty of not fitting a racist stereotype of how black men should behave in polite society. If the WASP Mad Men TV show character Don Draper did these things (he did), it would be considered rakish and sexy.
9
It would not be considered rakish and sexy by anyone with a developed sense of morality and empathy. It would be considered predatory, disgusting and criminal.
2
Esteban: "They had some drinks, took some drugs, and had sex. I haven't read any evidence beyond a reasonable doubt establishing lack of consent."
Read some more. Yes, in some cases 'they' had drinks and tooks some drugs, but each of these complaints alleges a very similar pattern where Cosby misrepresented the substances he gave them, or simply spiked their drinks with a potent unidentified sedative. Then, according to almost all the complaints, it wasn't 'they' who had sex, but rather Mr. Cosby. In many cases women report regaining consciousness to find themselves undressed and underneath Cosby.
There hasn't been a trial yet, Esteban, and evidence hasn't been presented, so your 'verdict' is premature. There certainly is reasonable cause, though, and if the statute of limitations hadn't applied in most of these cases Mr. Cosby would have been arrested already.
One last thing: when you toss out the race card you couldn't be more wrong or ridiculous. If Don Draper or any other man - white, yellow, brown, or black - drugs and rapes a woman, he would be considered a rapist. As it is, the Mad Men character's penchant for inappropriate sexual partners, not to mention alcohol, destroyed his marriages, damaged his family, and left him materially successful but fundamentally alone - not all that different from Bill Cosby.
Read some more. Yes, in some cases 'they' had drinks and tooks some drugs, but each of these complaints alleges a very similar pattern where Cosby misrepresented the substances he gave them, or simply spiked their drinks with a potent unidentified sedative. Then, according to almost all the complaints, it wasn't 'they' who had sex, but rather Mr. Cosby. In many cases women report regaining consciousness to find themselves undressed and underneath Cosby.
There hasn't been a trial yet, Esteban, and evidence hasn't been presented, so your 'verdict' is premature. There certainly is reasonable cause, though, and if the statute of limitations hadn't applied in most of these cases Mr. Cosby would have been arrested already.
One last thing: when you toss out the race card you couldn't be more wrong or ridiculous. If Don Draper or any other man - white, yellow, brown, or black - drugs and rapes a woman, he would be considered a rapist. As it is, the Mad Men character's penchant for inappropriate sexual partners, not to mention alcohol, destroyed his marriages, damaged his family, and left him materially successful but fundamentally alone - not all that different from Bill Cosby.
1
I'm simply outraged as to why this man is still breathing the sweet moist air of freedom? How can it be possible that he's not in jail?
Oh, here's why: Cos.
Oh, here's why: Cos.
6
Because our laws, the Statute of Limitations, protect sexual predators/perpetrators not the victims.
The euphemistic use of language in this article is repugnant. This is not philandering or womanizing. This is sexual assault and rape.
37
The guy is his own worst enemy. Keep digging Bill...the hole you're in just keeps getting deeper. Despicable, duplicitous, denying, liar....and sex fiend.
16
Cosby's attitude was one of privilege, that these women should have felt fortunate for the attention from someone of his stature. He doesn't have enough time left on earth to sort out his behavior. His behavior wasn't that of a dirty old man, but of a man who believed his own hype. If he is able to feel disgrace, hopefully that will be his due from here on out. The way many of these women were portrayed by Cosby's people and the legal system, must have given them pause to wonder if they weren't off their rocker. What a relief that they did not give up! His past coming to light for all the world to see is just.
22
Who am I to judge?
There is nothing wrong with an older person of either sex having CONSENSUAL sex with a younger person of either sex that is over the age of consent.
"DIRTY OLD MAN" is a negative stereotype, sex does not end an any age.
America sexy advertising, sexy entertainment, where all politicians say they are theistic. Home of Playboy and Dr. Kinsey and Joseph Smith.
Puritan Sexual attitudes and photos of Pluto the Devil God of the underworld photographed NAKED with Tax Payer dollars from 3 Billion Miles away.
There is nothing wrong with an older person of either sex having CONSENSUAL sex with a younger person of either sex that is over the age of consent.
"DIRTY OLD MAN" is a negative stereotype, sex does not end an any age.
America sexy advertising, sexy entertainment, where all politicians say they are theistic. Home of Playboy and Dr. Kinsey and Joseph Smith.
Puritan Sexual attitudes and photos of Pluto the Devil God of the underworld photographed NAKED with Tax Payer dollars from 3 Billion Miles away.
3
I certainly remember his moral outrage when Lisa Bonet accepted the female lead in "Angel Heart"
11
Cosby is the guy who years ago chastised Eddie Murphy or using vulgar language. It's definitely all out there for the entire world to see that he's a hypocritical piece of garbage.
39
Yes ... Eddie Murphy comes off as a wholesome role model for young men of any color compared to predator sleazebag Bill Cosby. Murphy's dirty words on stage never hurt anybody like Cosby's physical assaults on young women.
It'll be a great day for America and for American journalism when this kind of celebrity muckraking is relegated to the supermarket tabloids where it belongs.
The sexual abuse and degradation of women in this country is a serious and important cultural, social and legal issue, but that's not what this story is about nor, it seems, why it rated front page coverage in the New York Times.
The sexual abuse and degradation of women in this country is a serious and important cultural, social and legal issue, but that's not what this story is about nor, it seems, why it rated front page coverage in the New York Times.
12
Not muckraking. A glimpse into the mind of a serial rapist. His detachment from his crimes is pathological.
1
"Calculated Pursuit", this guys is a comedian, Doctor of education, rapist and mathematician! Quite the pedigree. No wonder he can read people emotions and consent when they are passed out.
16
Bill Cosby: Creepo supremo. This serial sexual predator and worldclass sleazeball needs to be shunned worldwide. No tables for him at good restaurants. No more awards or phony doctorates from schools that are on the iffy side anyway. No more bookings for stand-up concerts. Yank his medal of freedom and his Kennedy Cibitenter Honors status and make sure his phone never again rings with anything other than news of another civil suit.
Oh, and boot his artwork including a quilt made by a family member from the Smithsonian's African American exhibit. Give him his bribe money back if necessary. Get his enabling wife off the board.
If he can't be sent to jail, then expunge this predator from existence in the civilized world.
Oh, and boot his artwork including a quilt made by a family member from the Smithsonian's African American exhibit. Give him his bribe money back if necessary. Get his enabling wife off the board.
If he can't be sent to jail, then expunge this predator from existence in the civilized world.
43
Well put. Let's please stop enabling/celebrating him, America. Obama, you can indeed rescind that medal, let's not make excuses any longer.
With little or no sympathy for Mr. Cosby I, yet, still have to wonder how he can look in the mirror, facing the reality of how his double life has been exposed. Maybe he has a next "act" in his life: to make a sincere and public confession to all the women he abused and direct a large portion of his considerable wealth to causes that help prevent the kinds of crimes he committed.
8
No apology will suffice. And who in God's name would accept another moralizing lecture from this predator ?
If he had any playboy charm he would have needed no rape drugs, neither would he be defending dozens of rape lawsuits if there were mutual consent. Imagine the Cosby marriage as it coasts along in it "golden" years.
How about another reality show with this loathsome humanoid added to the Hollywood trash now on TV? What a country we live in...
How about another reality show with this loathsome humanoid added to the Hollywood trash now on TV? What a country we live in...
6
It is not the case that the more terrible the crime of which a person is accused, the less evidence we should require because we just can't stand the idea of letting such a bad guy go free in case he's guilty. Or because we find that what he does admit to is sleazy even though it's not a crime. The charges aren't evidence; nor are multiple charges themselves evidence (especially when the accusers are going after someone rich for money rather than going to the police to try and put him behind bars); the charges are what must be proven. In the quoted testimony Cosby does not state that he gave women drugs without their knowledge in order to have sex with them. He may well be guilty, but only proof can demonstrate that. So far, I see none.
3
If I recall past articles, doesn't Cosby have a pack of lawyers who have in the recent past been quite fervent in their attacks against woman who've mustered up the courage to talk about their horrific experiences with him? Haven't they shown no reluctance to label these women liars and opportunists?
And now, is it not safe to assume that, all that time, these lawyers knew the content of these depositions and memoranda when they were demonizing Cosby's accusers?
It's one thing for a lawyer to say he gave his client the benefit of the doubt, as I understand the job often requires. But, knowing what they knew, would it not be correct to suspect that they crossed a serious ethical and professional line here?
And now, is it not safe to assume that, all that time, these lawyers knew the content of these depositions and memoranda when they were demonizing Cosby's accusers?
It's one thing for a lawyer to say he gave his client the benefit of the doubt, as I understand the job often requires. But, knowing what they knew, would it not be correct to suspect that they crossed a serious ethical and professional line here?
21
Bill Cosby has pulled the wool over America's eyes for decades! The wise, caring, beloved father-figure, is in fact a sick, perverted sexual predator.
His acting skills are like none other. He's fooled millions of us for years - me included - and still continues to fool others despite the scores of women who have come forward and his own testimony.
His acting skills are like none other. He's fooled millions of us for years - me included - and still continues to fool others despite the scores of women who have come forward and his own testimony.
15
To be clear, I'm a woman. Mr. Cosby seemed to be acting like MANY men with power, money, and influence. If we indicted all the men that acted like selfish pigs half the male race would be on the stand. However, I don't think he actually did anything other than act like a disgusting pig of a man. He made a game of seducing young women - when/if he actually drugged and then raped them...that's a different story. It's hard not to sound like I'm saying the women "should have known better" - because I don't know all the stories or context - but for the most part...they should have known better.
8
People who have never been the victim of a crime like to blame victims by saying "they should have known better" because it makes them feel superior. It's like saying, "I'd never be dumb enough to be the victim of a crime." Well, it doesn't work that way. You can try to place all sorts of parameters around it -- she shouldn't have been dressed that way/I would never dress that way; she shouldn't have gone out with him/I wouldn't have gone out with him, etc. -- but it doesn't change the basic fact: Criminals commit crimes. No one is protected from being a potential victim, no matter how much we'd like to believe something different.
Blame the victim much?
The drug thing is an issue but let's be real back in the day this was the norm. The casting couch, women who wanted to get their careers going by hanging with a superstar and doing Ludes was the standard drug back then.
Does Bill Cosby fit in to that mold as a superstar? Sure he does. But these women now look back to today's moral's not what they promoted for themselves way back then.
They are out for the money and Bill Cosby is not giving up one penny. It's the entertianment business today as it was worse yesterday.
Does Bill Cosby fit in to that mold as a superstar? Sure he does. But these women now look back to today's moral's not what they promoted for themselves way back then.
They are out for the money and Bill Cosby is not giving up one penny. It's the entertianment business today as it was worse yesterday.
7
I think the most striking thing about Cosby's deposition is his lack of empathy or remorse. He is an extreme narcissist and may even be a psychopath. For example:
"Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. People are seen as pawns to be used to forward the psychopath’s goals. Psychopaths rarely feel guilt regarding any of their behaviors, no matter how much they hurt others."
"Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. People are seen as pawns to be used to forward the psychopath’s goals. Psychopaths rarely feel guilt regarding any of their behaviors, no matter how much they hurt others."
28
Here we're talking about an established comic, star of TV and cinema, a mega-celebrity and personality with net worth in 2015 estimated at $410 million. If these things aren't 'aphrodisiacs' in and of themselves, they certainly amount to "wherewithal" and interpersonal currency.
For most of us, if adding a modicum of courtesy, personal charm, and sincere interest to the above failed to achieve acceptable levels of 'social' success without resorting to drugging intended partners, such wouldn't be criminal -- It would be pitiable.
Now, Mr. Cosby has experienced considerable personal tragedy in his life, but these disappointing recent revelations strike me as defining and substantiating a truly pathetic dimension to his entertainment legacy.
I can empathize with the anger, disgust, and outrage of the victims. But I can also feel some sadness for the perpetrator.
His were not the actions of a healthy man at home in his own skin among accepting, loving, fellow humans, of which so many of us naively were with respect, at least, to what we saw of his public persona over decades of a successful and lucrative career.
For most of us, if adding a modicum of courtesy, personal charm, and sincere interest to the above failed to achieve acceptable levels of 'social' success without resorting to drugging intended partners, such wouldn't be criminal -- It would be pitiable.
Now, Mr. Cosby has experienced considerable personal tragedy in his life, but these disappointing recent revelations strike me as defining and substantiating a truly pathetic dimension to his entertainment legacy.
I can empathize with the anger, disgust, and outrage of the victims. But I can also feel some sadness for the perpetrator.
His were not the actions of a healthy man at home in his own skin among accepting, loving, fellow humans, of which so many of us naively were with respect, at least, to what we saw of his public persona over decades of a successful and lucrative career.
5
Some people wonder why so many years passed before these stories resurfaced and people began to believe the women who said they had been drugged and raped. I believe one reason the stories weren't believed is that Cosby carefully cultivated a persona -- that is *exactly* what sexual predators do! They don't lurk in dark alleys wearing dirty trench coats. They charm everyone around them. People thought, "It couldn't be true -- he's a dad on TV, he's selling Jell-O on TV." As a character in the movie "Broadcast News" said, "What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he's around? ... He will be attractive! He'll be nice and helpful." And then he will destroy lives.
27
He should apologize to young black men whom he has chastised so much. To try and hide his own creepy predatory behavior. Much like Dennis Hastert. Two criminals.
9
I loved Bill Cosby's wit and wisdom in the 1960's. He was hip and, to me, a beacon on how we should address race relations. He went on to get a phD at UMass Amherst in education, and I thought he'd provide some compelling insight on redesign our public schools.
But I am dismayed by the recent revelations about his sexual predation--yes, despite the court demuring on this term, I think it is apt. To consider women, objects of sexual adventures, where objection rather than fully-informed consent is the standard, is barbaric. Who among us would wish our daughters, nieces or neighborhood girls subjected to this measure.
Bill Cosby is a talented comic. But he is also a misogynist. I am so sad to come to this conclusion. But all his early albums and performances are now tainted by the reality.
I so hope that Mr. Cosby might come to grips with this reality and offer an apology. Then, perhaps, his amazing body of comic work can be redeemed.
But I am dismayed by the recent revelations about his sexual predation--yes, despite the court demuring on this term, I think it is apt. To consider women, objects of sexual adventures, where objection rather than fully-informed consent is the standard, is barbaric. Who among us would wish our daughters, nieces or neighborhood girls subjected to this measure.
Bill Cosby is a talented comic. But he is also a misogynist. I am so sad to come to this conclusion. But all his early albums and performances are now tainted by the reality.
I so hope that Mr. Cosby might come to grips with this reality and offer an apology. Then, perhaps, his amazing body of comic work can be redeemed.
3
I was brought up very young on the comedy albums of Cosby and his peers of the late 60s: Tom Lehrer, Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce, etc. I knew him from those early routines and from his Fat Albert TV show. I never knew him from the TV doctor character, but I did hear him moralizing to black American families later on. I wasn't black and American, so reserved any opinion. But I was also weaned on 70s feminism and I believed those women from the beginning. The stories just matched and matched, on and on. I know women who have been "roofied-and-raped". It's a terrible fact of women's lives.
Kudos to Hannibal Buress; he deserves huge props for taking such a professional risk on early comments on Cosby's behaviour, which seemed to have set this all off. My heart goes out to the assaulted women, who were relentlessly mocked and dismissed. I hope these women can find healing and a sense of vindication now.
I hope this spurs changes in the rules in the U.S. on the statutes of limitations in these crimes. Maybe Pres. Obama's comment to the press last week was an early indication of the push for such change.
Kudos to Hannibal Buress; he deserves huge props for taking such a professional risk on early comments on Cosby's behaviour, which seemed to have set this all off. My heart goes out to the assaulted women, who were relentlessly mocked and dismissed. I hope these women can find healing and a sense of vindication now.
I hope this spurs changes in the rules in the U.S. on the statutes of limitations in these crimes. Maybe Pres. Obama's comment to the press last week was an early indication of the push for such change.
340
Obama played friendly golf with Tiger Woods shortly after news of his licentious sex life and resulting divorce. Obama stated he won't revoke the presidential medal bestowed on Cosby, but says "rape is bad". Obama has two young daughters. Obama is no role model here. Obama's dwarfed reactions are appalling.
1
You can thank Hannibal Buress for jumping on a grenade. He exposed Cosby, but he committed career suicide in the process. Men in Hollywood have a lot of secrets to keep, and Buress now has a reputation as someone who reveals secrets. I'm glad he brought Cosby to some form of justice, but he's made himself an enemy of the patriarchy in entertainment and I suspect his career is over.
1
Bill Cosby has basically raped his image and his entire legacy. I cannot watch another Cosby program without seeing the faces of the women he has violated. They are so brave. And, they have suffered too long. Cosby is a lost cause, but the women are inspiring to me.
10
Bill Cosby has some serious psychological issues in play here. A man with his money, celebrity and status and ability to charm an audience should have been able to be with pretty much any woman he wanted.
So, the question remains, why would he resort to such dirty, underhanded trick on these various women? Was it a power trip? Did he seek to drug them so they couldn't remember and threaten to tell his wife?
And, why would someone want to have sex with someone who was totally unresponsive?
Bill Cosby should man up, grow up, and publically apologize to his accusers and voluntarily pay them each at least $2.5 million dollars in damages and then go for intensive psychological therapy.
And, if he is not happy in his marriage he ought to do the honorable things and get a divorce.
As it stands now his comedic talents are overshadowed by the fact that he is a disgusting individual who thinks so little of himself and others that the only way he can function sexually is by drugging his intended victim.
Further, the accusations against form a ground swell. If it was one or two women you could dismiss them as being disgruntled for whatever reason, but with the numbers now, its difficult if not impossible to dismiss them as unfounded.
Only time will tell if Bill Cosby can do the honorable thing and admit his tawdry behavior and make amends to his previous victims.
So, the question remains, why would he resort to such dirty, underhanded trick on these various women? Was it a power trip? Did he seek to drug them so they couldn't remember and threaten to tell his wife?
And, why would someone want to have sex with someone who was totally unresponsive?
Bill Cosby should man up, grow up, and publically apologize to his accusers and voluntarily pay them each at least $2.5 million dollars in damages and then go for intensive psychological therapy.
And, if he is not happy in his marriage he ought to do the honorable things and get a divorce.
As it stands now his comedic talents are overshadowed by the fact that he is a disgusting individual who thinks so little of himself and others that the only way he can function sexually is by drugging his intended victim.
Further, the accusations against form a ground swell. If it was one or two women you could dismiss them as being disgruntled for whatever reason, but with the numbers now, its difficult if not impossible to dismiss them as unfounded.
Only time will tell if Bill Cosby can do the honorable thing and admit his tawdry behavior and make amends to his previous victims.
8
Louis, you had me until you said "...if it was one or two women you could dismiss them as being disgruntled..." Really??
ONE WOMAN should be more than enough for someone to listen to and take immediate legal action. She should never be "dismissed" in such a backhanded, cavalier manner simply because she stands alone in her accusations.
ONE WOMAN should be more than enough for someone to listen to and take immediate legal action. She should never be "dismissed" in such a backhanded, cavalier manner simply because she stands alone in her accusations.
Public figures can be routinely accused of just about anything.
It's not that I am discounting the accusations of even one woman. I am making the point that since there are at least 20 to 30 or more that these are not And, because there are so many accusations you cannot dismiss these allegations as being the work of a former disgruntled employee.
Now, that having been said, one woman's accusations should be enough to open the door to a full investigation. Twenty or thirty women's accusations should be enough to unseal all the court records and get to the bottom of this once and for all.
In any case, Bill Cosby is a disgrace. With his celebrity status, his wealth and his talent, he could have had just about any girl he wanted. This issue goes much deeper. It is an issue of power, control, ego, arrogance, and some misguided air of superiority.
I want to compare him to the same animal from which we derive bacon, but that would be an insult to that animal.
It's not that I am discounting the accusations of even one woman. I am making the point that since there are at least 20 to 30 or more that these are not And, because there are so many accusations you cannot dismiss these allegations as being the work of a former disgruntled employee.
Now, that having been said, one woman's accusations should be enough to open the door to a full investigation. Twenty or thirty women's accusations should be enough to unseal all the court records and get to the bottom of this once and for all.
In any case, Bill Cosby is a disgrace. With his celebrity status, his wealth and his talent, he could have had just about any girl he wanted. This issue goes much deeper. It is an issue of power, control, ego, arrogance, and some misguided air of superiority.
I want to compare him to the same animal from which we derive bacon, but that would be an insult to that animal.
Sadly, nothing much can be done legally to convict and punish Mr. Cosby through incarceration and criminal fines. Even civil suits become problematic with the elapsed time between when these alleged rapes occurred and the present. One can only hope the publicity surrounding this case might prevent future incidents from happening with men in powerful positions and the youth they might be mentoring or claiming to mentor. There must be many "Bill Cosby's" out there committing similar heinous acts that either go unnoticed or intentionally unreported. It is unconscionable the Catholic Church turned a blind eye for so long to the countless priest molestations of young boys. Some of Cosby's most ardent fans never thought the avuncular comic could be capable of anything other than making people laugh at his gentle humor and his seemingly perpetual kindness, wisdom and morality, not unlike the purity of character ascribed to all Catholic priests. Like the Catholic Church, it is highly unlikely that Cosby didn't have outside help who were fully aware of Mr. Cosby's now alleged criminal activity and aided and abetted Mr. Cosby to cover this up. Money and power can buy lots of influence in this world.
7
"Money and power can buy lots of influence in this world." You think?
To Barry Schreibman: Yes Barry, your sarcasm aside, I sadly do think that the very wealthy and entertainment giant, Cosby paid off a cadre of influential people, including lawyers, network executives, publicists, agents, limo drivers, man servants, etc to cover up his illicit and immoral behavior--and not necessarily after the fact, either. Other than his poor female victims, I remain shocked and dismayed that others with whom Cosby surrounded and shielded himself didn't come forward to stop this heinous criminal behavior. It would be next to impossible for those close to Cosby not to see exactly what was going on over several years. Did the fear of what he could do to their careers and bank accounts buy silence from them as well as his alleged rape victims? During the salad days of The Cosby Show on NBC, Cosby even ruminated about buying the network. Now, of course, only his rape victims are willing to recount the sordid details of Cosby's sexual advances since they now have a national platform, speak as several voices over more than a decade of abuse and are finally being taken seriously publicly. The Catholic Church hid decades of priest molestations with their deep pockets and "messengers of God" schtick. I want to know who was Cosby's equivalent of the Catholic Church who covered up his crimes and knowingly enabled him to continue to commit them.
1
Cosby's unapologetic contempt for women is revolting. As a kid, Fat Albert was my favorite cartoon. I still love it--until now. Like a pedophile often insinuates himself into a position caring for children, projecting an image of impeccable morality in the form of teacher, boy scout leader, priest, Cosby used his school teacher turned celebrity moralizer as a foil for his perversions. There is just no one to look up to anymore. No one. Behind the veneer of every would-be hero stands a wolf, a predator, and philanderer. The decline of religious observation, respect for politicians and any officials of authority (read, rogue cops) is directly related to their hypocrisy and criminality. Cosby is in good company with the likes of Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Newt Gingrich, Ted Haggard, Catholic Priest pedophiles, et al., ad nauseum.
13
a little too pessimistic there ( and I understand why) but you're wrong...many men of integrity still grace our culture....Billy Graham; Charles Stanley; Tony Evans, etc....and hopefully you and many others....true Men of Integrity are all around...and it all starts at home....
"In the deposition, he said he was worried that Ms. Constand’s mother would think of him as a “dirty old man.”"
Very very funny. Not only is he a "dirty old man" he's a "repulsive dirty old man" and has been, in the minds of many, for some time. Furthermore, he's a narcissistic duplicitous human being who "earned" his doctorate from UMASS based on "life experiences" (and hanging out with the dean), then insisted everyone start calling him "Dr. Cosby."
Very very funny. Not only is he a "dirty old man" he's a "repulsive dirty old man" and has been, in the minds of many, for some time. Furthermore, he's a narcissistic duplicitous human being who "earned" his doctorate from UMASS based on "life experiences" (and hanging out with the dean), then insisted everyone start calling him "Dr. Cosby."
27
I understand why people are so disgusted with him now but he wrote a book years ago bragging about how he beat his son. When confronted you could see he was a very arrogant angry man. He takes he wants and does he wants.
People worship fame and actors and movie stars and celebrities and feel they know them because they read a People magazine article that shows pictures of their living rooms. I think people are angry now because the real man is nothing like the image he paid people to present. If only people would learn a lesson from this. Although I doubt it. Somewhere in the Times today there has to be a piece about one of the Kardashian trash and everyone will read it and believe it. And look forward to the next piece about a famous person who no one really knows.
People worship fame and actors and movie stars and celebrities and feel they know them because they read a People magazine article that shows pictures of their living rooms. I think people are angry now because the real man is nothing like the image he paid people to present. If only people would learn a lesson from this. Although I doubt it. Somewhere in the Times today there has to be a piece about one of the Kardashian trash and everyone will read it and believe it. And look forward to the next piece about a famous person who no one really knows.
7
He confessED. Wow. This headline is so misleading. I'm repulsed.
There really needs to stop being a statute of limitations on rape.
This disgusting excuse for a human being should see justice inside a prison cell.
This disgusting excuse for a human being should see justice inside a prison cell.
17
There are many good reasons for statutes of limitation.
First, memory tends to fade for many people after many years. Research has shown that human memory is not a photographic recall device after a great deal of time has passed. Therefore, not only are there issues with the memories of the alleged victim(s) and perpetrator(s), it can be difficult to trust eyewitness memory after several years. For example, in a hypothetical situation in which an alleged perpetrator and victim ate at a restaurant, tracking down and obtaining reliable information from restaurant employees after 20 years can prove to be problematic.
Second, it is difficult to obtain physical evidence of a sexual assault case after many years. In order to be effective in most cases, a rape kit must be done within a few days after the incident. If drugs were used, a blood test must be done within hours or weeks, depending on the type of drug used, in order to detect the drug within the alleged victim. In addition, security camera footage, phone records, credit card records, etc. may not be available to investigators years or decades after the alleged incident. Physical evidence strengthens a sexual assault case and without it, the case becomes more of a "he said/she said" situation.
Third, removing statues of limitations will encourage alleged victims not to pursue their cases in a timely manner, thereby lessening their chances of obtaining justice.
First, memory tends to fade for many people after many years. Research has shown that human memory is not a photographic recall device after a great deal of time has passed. Therefore, not only are there issues with the memories of the alleged victim(s) and perpetrator(s), it can be difficult to trust eyewitness memory after several years. For example, in a hypothetical situation in which an alleged perpetrator and victim ate at a restaurant, tracking down and obtaining reliable information from restaurant employees after 20 years can prove to be problematic.
Second, it is difficult to obtain physical evidence of a sexual assault case after many years. In order to be effective in most cases, a rape kit must be done within a few days after the incident. If drugs were used, a blood test must be done within hours or weeks, depending on the type of drug used, in order to detect the drug within the alleged victim. In addition, security camera footage, phone records, credit card records, etc. may not be available to investigators years or decades after the alleged incident. Physical evidence strengthens a sexual assault case and without it, the case becomes more of a "he said/she said" situation.
Third, removing statues of limitations will encourage alleged victims not to pursue their cases in a timely manner, thereby lessening their chances of obtaining justice.
Tis no secret to those who surrounded him -- i.e. The Enablers.
Unchecked power always corrupts. Therefore, those with such power must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
Unchecked power always corrupts. Therefore, those with such power must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
4
Mr Cosby is so Freudian! Sex is what will make you happy not a clear conscience. Get sex in the way that is easiest for you not in a way that will make you respect yourself and the other person.
1
The mind of a predator always amazes me. They never consider the plain facts of what their own actions are, but rather they think -- with ludicrous nuance -- about how their victim perhaps secretly wanted it, or maybe deserved it, or didn't seem to mind nearly as much as society says they do.
Total blindness to the moral status of one's own actions taken in themselves. It's like purposely hitting someone with a car, and then explaining, well, they were in the street, and they didn't seem all that hurt, and they didn't explicitly tell me I couldn't hit them.
And this from someone who has for too long been holding himself up as a moral arbiter. Now we know, that pose too was just part of his predatory behavior.
Predatory behavior he himself will never see or grasp, because, like all predators, he simply does not see it that way. What a terrible shame and disgrace he is.
Total blindness to the moral status of one's own actions taken in themselves. It's like purposely hitting someone with a car, and then explaining, well, they were in the street, and they didn't seem all that hurt, and they didn't explicitly tell me I couldn't hit them.
And this from someone who has for too long been holding himself up as a moral arbiter. Now we know, that pose too was just part of his predatory behavior.
Predatory behavior he himself will never see or grasp, because, like all predators, he simply does not see it that way. What a terrible shame and disgrace he is.
10
This is the whole of it, pjc.
And the more convinced the predator is that he is right, moral, the victim wanted it, etc, the more difficult it is for non-sociopath regular people to understand the depth of the crime, believe he is truly guilty, and prosecute the criminal before he gathers a long(er) list of victims.
And the more convinced the predator is that he is right, moral, the victim wanted it, etc, the more difficult it is for non-sociopath regular people to understand the depth of the crime, believe he is truly guilty, and prosecute the criminal before he gathers a long(er) list of victims.
1
This is not exactly earth shattering news about the seduction techniques of a famous and wealthy man but it will sell newspapers. None of it proves criminal intent. Why didn't the lawyer for the plaintiff in the 2005 deposition make a citizen's arrest or at least call for a criminal prosecution? Ten years have passed and still Bill Cosby remains a free man with only his reputation irrevocably damaged by his many accusers. Is it possible the authorities can't prove this dude is a serial rapist? IT sure looks like that way.
8
Can you say Statute of Limitations?
1
Actually, Mary, Cosby comes off as just another guy trying to get laid, not as a rapist, but in this case he's famous and has got a ton of money and that sells papers.
1
The most prolific serial rapist ever in the United States wears a "Hello Friend" shirt, onstage, to cheering crowds. Disgusting
12
Mr. Cosby has stiff competition (no pun intended) from Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain for the title of most prolific U.S. serial rapist. (Okay, the pun was intended...)
While the second "most prolific serial rapist ever in the U.S. wears" a Hillary for President" button...selective memory, selective judgement.
1
As we hear more and more from his accusers, whatever doubt was in our mind slowly vanishes. By now, it is almost beyond a reasonable doubt that many of his victims were telling the truth.
3
I only know of a Bill Cosby, because I seen him on the news. My parents had to tell me who he was. From my understanding, he's an old man and I think old men do creepy things all the time. He's a full grown man and all these women who came to him or whatever, they knew exactly what they were doing when they did it and the consequences that were followed. My opinion is that don't take anything from someone you don't know and when your drinking with someone you watch them poor your drink in front of you.
7
I would like to see some literature- and case-related psychological analysis of why he preferred sedating women for sex - versus regular, vanilla, wide-awake intercourse. Part of the explanation would presumably be rape-related, a need to "hide the crime". Presumably he also wanted to hide his flagrant cheating from his wife. Presumably it was easier to compartmentalize his activities when the other "participants" were doped?
But these explanations seem unlikely to be the whole story.
But these explanations seem unlikely to be the whole story.
4
Pure psychopath: "Through it all, his attitude was one of casual indifference..." He refers to himself *by name* in the third person twice in one sentence. "I think you're making light of a very serious situation," says a deposing lawyer. His response? "That may very well be." What normal person would say that?
7
"These situations - whatever you want to call them."
-Bill Cosby
Let's just call them what they are: rape.
Cosby's a violent criminal psychopath. Given money and power, he had a long run before he was outed. He also benefited his entire life from a society that for decades refused to believe women and children when they said they'd been raped or sexually assaulted. By strangers, friends, colleagues, bosses, relatives, priests, physicians, social workers, coaches, prison guards, cops, you name it. A long scary suffocating history of shaming, belittling, blaming and disenfranchising women. Telling them they were liars. Or crazy.
Thanks to all the women who put up with so much abuse for decades trying to out this monster. Whatever legacy, reputation and peace of mind he had left to lose are gone now. I believed you years ago. I believe you now. I'm going to believe any others who come forward.
To the L.A. District Attorney and police force: it it's still possible, he should be in prison. He's a public menace.
-Bill Cosby
Let's just call them what they are: rape.
Cosby's a violent criminal psychopath. Given money and power, he had a long run before he was outed. He also benefited his entire life from a society that for decades refused to believe women and children when they said they'd been raped or sexually assaulted. By strangers, friends, colleagues, bosses, relatives, priests, physicians, social workers, coaches, prison guards, cops, you name it. A long scary suffocating history of shaming, belittling, blaming and disenfranchising women. Telling them they were liars. Or crazy.
Thanks to all the women who put up with so much abuse for decades trying to out this monster. Whatever legacy, reputation and peace of mind he had left to lose are gone now. I believed you years ago. I believe you now. I'm going to believe any others who come forward.
To the L.A. District Attorney and police force: it it's still possible, he should be in prison. He's a public menace.
24
Yes, yes, and yes
I first heard of Bill Cosby's exploitation of women when I was in college in PA in the 1980s. Classmates of mine from the Philadelphia area who sang back up for a Emmy winning Black women's group of that time were quite vocal about the fact that word was on the street within the Black entertainment community that career mentoring or assistance from Bill Cosby came with a heavy price...a willingness to be seduced in exchange for introductions to show business. I am convinced that many, many people within the entertainment industry knew and looked the other way. 35 years later, when the news broke, I wasn't surprised in the least. I wonder how many of them have feel conviction now that their silence ultimately lead to many ruined and broken lives.
22
You're describing the "casting couch," Cathy. Old news.
1
Unbelieveable deposition; likely a lible, in my opinion.
Pills were in the drinks. And he was playing the role of kind, avuncular mentor. Nothing to do with Puritanism.
A libel of whom? I doubt the deponent can libel himself. Perhaps some ad agency, brand, sponsor, or other associated business entity could demonstrate (through actual material losses resulting from them) that Cosby's statements under oath are tortious. Is that what you meant?
I don't see this working for the more personal victims, however. They'd be portrayed as spurned partners and their complaints cast as one side of a he-said-she-said involving conflicting remembrances of now-defunct relationships.
I don't see this working for the more personal victims, however. They'd be portrayed as spurned partners and their complaints cast as one side of a he-said-she-said involving conflicting remembrances of now-defunct relationships.
Oh please. Gee, a young woman went to a Hollywood star's hotel room, took the pills he offered her, and ended up having sex with him. What cloistered Puritanical community do most of the commenters here live in? For the record, most pulls "to help you relax" are either illegal or prescription only. Sorry, but you choose to get higher, bad things can happen to you. No pity.
8
No, according to several of the women, the pills were not offered but were put into a (sometimes non-alcoholic) drink without their knowledge. Claiming that women are to blame for rape is reprehensible. Going out with a famous man does not imply giving consent for him to rape you any more than wearing a short skirt is justification for rape.
1
IF this even happened -- most incidents were long ago -- how could you prove this? If they had gone to the police -- just the charge of being drugged ALONE was a criminal matter -- evidence could have been collected -- proof of the quaaludes, mortars to grind up the pills or whatever. Glasses with lipstick and fingerprints.
If you wait THIRTY YEARS, it is not rational to think it will be anything but "he said, she said".
Also: most of the hysterics here, are forgetting that nearly all the women returned multiple times (and none went to the police). If you RETURN and take the quaaludes over and over -- that is consent.
If you wait THIRTY YEARS, it is not rational to think it will be anything but "he said, she said".
Also: most of the hysterics here, are forgetting that nearly all the women returned multiple times (and none went to the police). If you RETURN and take the quaaludes over and over -- that is consent.
Cosby is not a "pig at the trough". He is a man using his limited but lethal arsenal of coercion. No intercourse 'cos he didn't want the women to fall in love? Narcissist much. And the wife. To acknowledge she knew makes her complicit. She stands by her husband. Then, when it comes to light, she looks like a fool, and an accomplice. No. Pig is an insult to the pig. He is human sludge.
22
I'm reminded of the Clinton relationship. He the sexual predator and she the enabler by ignoring it until he makes her look like a fool.
While it appears it is of little concern to him he will live with this infamy of betrayal until he dies. Unfortunately his wife and children will probably always question whatever love they thought he gave them. No winners in this fight, only a lot of pain and tears. A modern tragedy.
9
What an embarrassment Mr. Cosby is—to television and comedy shows, to the black community, to the institutions he represented, to himself.
With an investigation continuing in Los Angeles, some type of incarceration may not be far away. And at least one suggestion that he put $40 million into a fund for his victims is a good one.
With an investigation continuing in Los Angeles, some type of incarceration may not be far away. And at least one suggestion that he put $40 million into a fund for his victims is a good one.
6
"What an embarrassment Mr. Cosby is—to television and comedy shows, to the black community"
So, uh, he was not a "credit to his race"?
What he did is his doing.
It has nothing to do with the black community.
It is bigoted to drag 37.6 million other people into this.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
So, uh, he was not a "credit to his race"?
What he did is his doing.
It has nothing to do with the black community.
It is bigoted to drag 37.6 million other people into this.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Bill Cosby is not a philanderer or a womanizer. He's a serial rapist.
55
This is one very sick individual that needs to be put away without hesitation.
12
I really don't love what Bill Cosby has done or what he is revealed to be - but how did this sealed information become public?
2
if you read the article you'd find this particular deposition was NOT sealed.
The Times got the transcript through court transcription. services. Only the memorandum was sealed.
Read the article. It explains exactly how the NYTimes got the info.
Back in the 70s I lied about enjoying countless vegetable casseroles and vegetarian lasagnes in an effort to seduce women. Learning to eat vegetables was more 'productive' than being suave, macho or using drugs.
Quaaludes? I remember them as well, but avoided them scrupulously. Certainly women took them on their own accord as well. Stumbling, bumbling and incoherency. That's supposed to be fun? Pass me the broccoli.
I agree with the commenters here. This wasn't about sex, it was about rape and power. However a product he might have been of his time and place, Cosby is a sick individual and deserves his punishment.
Quaaludes? I remember them as well, but avoided them scrupulously. Certainly women took them on their own accord as well. Stumbling, bumbling and incoherency. That's supposed to be fun? Pass me the broccoli.
I agree with the commenters here. This wasn't about sex, it was about rape and power. However a product he might have been of his time and place, Cosby is a sick individual and deserves his punishment.
21
We all know Bill Cosby as a comedian , but did you know he was also a sexual one. Within this article , it describes how Bill Cosby has been using his charm , his fame and drugs to seduce young women in having sex with him. I was a bit surprised that the biggest comedian alive today would be molesting at such an old age with a sweet conscience. Although Bill Cosby said he wasn't a sexual predator , I believe there could have a been a 70 percent chance he would've turned into one. Bill Cosby's response earned controversy in others from the female lawyer of the plaintiff , Andrea Constand to a federal judge who unsealed a memorandum in the case. If it wasn't hard seeing Bill Cosby in the situation , Bill Cosby definitely thought ahead of me. He was scared of people seeing him as a "dirty man." I thought this gesture was either very about the fact that he didn't want to disappoint anyone , or egocentric about only caring about his image and not about the woman he had affected ,or her hurt mother. I'm a bit disappointed that Bill Cosby's actions had led to such a huge situation , especially when it involves molesting. The disappointing part is that for an action to escalate that big shows how horrible it was. Is this bad for the comedian's career. I can't see how it's not. He used financial sleight of hand to keep his wife from figuring out. He did all of that and didn't even describe how guilty he felt as we don't know if he even felt it. Bill Cosby's guilty ,but he has a chance
But it's also true that 25 or more young women, who surely knew he was married, partied with him at the Playboy Mansion and other places, and surely many consented to have sex with him. Beatifying them all, and that kind of behavior, is a bit extreme.