Why can we just have some old fashioned public pissoirs?
1
It is really strange how many have written about the "pissoirs" in foreign countries. Why is all right to give only half the population a place to relieve themselves? Women manage to wait. I don't understand why men somehow think it is their right urinate in public even if it is behind a screen. They are still peeing on the street. How many things do they touch afterwards without washing their hands? Just as spitting on the street is not permitted, urinating on the street should also disappear. It is vulgar behavior from a less enlightened past.
1
With so many businesses not having public restrooms, maybe the City should have port-johns available min these areas of high offense.
There may be a lack of public restrooms, yet women seem to be able to manage. Seems more likely that many men just feel entitled to use the streets as their toilet. If you have such a problem controlling your bladder, drink less or use adult diapers.
2
The real Wizzards of Wall Street..
Shocking! Shocking, that thousands of people bypass the public restrooms to pee in the alley. Oh, wait
Where are the public toilets like those in Paris?
Wow, comments are astounding. Don't know any city that allows public urination, or that really has enough public toilets throughout town. Maybe you get a ticket? Not sure, but I don't want people urinating on the ground I'm walking on.
3
Two words: astronaut diapers.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Is our cultural/ racial divide so stark that we can't agree on what constitutes a threat to public order? When so many see the circumstances of Michael Brown's actions (strong armed robbery, attacking a cop and trying to take his gun) before the shooting incident as inconsequential; Eric Garners conduct the week before his tragic death (the state of his health and his 31 previous arrests) as immaterial and even Freddie Grays flight from a drug location as not an issue; what does that say to the desire by most decent humans to live in harmony with each other? A 'frank' discussion about race needs to include the conflict that arises between social conscience and putting those closest to us at risk or disadvantage especially if we decide to pee in the street.
3
The man who was pictured urinating in the street in The Post on Saturday is a familiar figure around the West 80's on Broadway. He's lived on the streets for years. He is filthy. He is obviously seriously mentally ill. What establishment would allow him to use their facilities? An odd choice for the campaign against public urination. His condition should be the cause for some commentary, as well.
5
Like people who carelessly and dangerously bike on public sidewalks, the urination issue is a quality of life issue for everyone. It is bad enough to have to endure the smell of dog urine, especially in hot and humid weather, but having to go down subway stairs and being nearly suffocated by the smell of urine is awful. It affects everyone who lives or visits. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who ride bicycles on even heavy pedestrian traffic sidewalks. It is inconsiderate of the bikers and those who urinate in public areas, and totally annoying. It's bad enough having to dodge people who don't walk to the right or who can't walk and talk on a cell phone at the same time...many walk like a drunk or stop cold blocking other pedestrians. NY has become a city of unaware tourists with their heads in the clouds (or sand) and inconsiderate, self-absorbed and self-centered people.
4
What's up with Gotham's absurd bladder denial? Our great city's lack of public toilets is, unfortunately, one of its most dystopian features. Yes, I get it, peeing in indiscreet places as a sort of rite of passage (read: guys) is problematic. But bad bladders happen to good people, too, so where are those seeking to relieve normal desperate urges to go? The so-called "city that never sleeps" has few of its once-plentiful public toilets, anymore. This is a peculiar urban planning deficiency that seems to fuel the very negative quality-of-life issues the article points up. Paris has long had free, self-cleaning public toilets dispersed around its metropolis. So why not here? A campaign to merely target and fine miscreant pissers reeks of often doubtful traffic ticket-quota policies. It certainly steps over the real problem of there being no public toilet infrastructure. That's weird for a great city with millions of residents and visitors constantly on the go, and who often need to go.
3
If you gotta go...you just gotta go no matter where it's at - in an alley, etc.
We need to get rid of the "bathrooms for customers only" policy too many establishments in this city have. Either let us use your bathroom or we will be forced to go in your doorway
1
Unmentioned in this article, but noted in many comments, is the lamentable scarcity of public restroom facilities in New York (and other cities). If the city cannot afford these facilities, a lower cost alternative would be to bring back the old Parisian public urinal, the pissoir or vespasienne. (Not much help for women, but most of those cited by the police are men.)
2
I am 78 years old and have visited Mexico and New York City among other places. Mexico has one catastrophic problem because they require no public bathrooms. I like most old men have continence problems-when you have to urinate you need to find facilities quickly. Therefore if you want to make it a crime then you must offer the facilities where one can go. If not then suffer with the problem. If New York City wants tourism then get with the program of providing for human needs. Nuf said?
3
Nature's call is every body's problem. It's not just men who drank too much. Paris has stand alone pay toilets which are sanitized after every use. We implemented rules for animal waste. When are we going to deal with this obvious public health issue in a realistic manner. It's not the responsibility of McDonalds and Starbucks to accommodate everyone who's gotta go.
2
You failed to mention that Paris has no law requiring you to scoop your dog's poop. You also failed to mention how expensive it is to use the toilets in Paris - the homeless and poor in NYC would not be paying. Lastly, you failed to mention that until the mid-90s, Parisians peed all over the place, including the walls of the bathrooms.
Not a good choice for comparison.
Not a good choice for comparison.
Paris does have a law requiring owners to pick up after their dogs. Unfortunately, few comply with it.
1
Why would any NY policeman want to get involved with someone urinating in public?
1
Someone who decides to urinate in broad daylight in the middle of a street or sidewalk with everyone watching deserves to be arrested. We aren't just talking about the late night, no one around kind of thing. Do we really have no public standards any more?
5
No, no, no! I don't want to return to the Dinkins era. I remember those days very well and they were not pleasant. This is back-sliding, pure and simple. Why is the Mayor silent about this? He is the leader of the city, for heaven's sake, and he SHOULD be providing some leadership on the issue instead of seeing which way the wind blows. Is it being done so he can brag that summonses have fallen and arrests are down? What a spineless politician he is. The sooner we are rid of him, the better!
5
Until we have public toilets, people should not be charged for public urination, unless they have a reasonable alternative. Especially late at night, when everything is closed, often there is no choice but to urinate on the sidewalk. Often it's not much better in the daytime. I don't think I've ever had to publicly urinate in NYC, but I've come very close.
If there is a nearby open public restroom that the person could have used, then charging someone who was too lazy to use it is reasonable. I don't like the smell or puddles of urine on our streets either, and it's a problem that needs to be stopped. But the solution is first to make public restrooms available, and only then, charge people for not using them.
If there is a nearby open public restroom that the person could have used, then charging someone who was too lazy to use it is reasonable. I don't like the smell or puddles of urine on our streets either, and it's a problem that needs to be stopped. But the solution is first to make public restrooms available, and only then, charge people for not using them.
1
SOME MIGHT SAY you are making the world a safer place if you arrest the jello-shot swigging Wall Street guys before they start another long day of robbing.
FROM THE ARTICLE:
On the issue of public urination, enforcement need not be evenhanded, according to Mr. Maple. In his 1999 memoir, “The Crime Fighter: Putting the Bad Guys Out of Business,” he wrote that “Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing,” he added, suggesting that officers should more heavily enforce the law in those areas.
FROM THE ARTICLE:
On the issue of public urination, enforcement need not be evenhanded, according to Mr. Maple. In his 1999 memoir, “The Crime Fighter: Putting the Bad Guys Out of Business,” he wrote that “Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing,” he added, suggesting that officers should more heavily enforce the law in those areas.
It's disgusting, but doesn't mean someone should be sent to jail for it. Fine the people who know better, and fine them heavily. It will stop. But the real answer is to install port-o-sans! I wonder how much of the money that went that ridiculous ticker tape parade could have gone to purchasing and installing some urinals???
The case of the man on the UWS who peed on Broadway (totally gross) - he has been living on the streets for years and is mentally ill. People like him, and they are many of them, should be off the streets, living in a facility where they can get their basic needs met: food, shelter, and medical supervision. There are many homes like this in the 5 boroughs. I know - I've seen them, and visited many for consideration of relatives who need housing and are also mentally ill. The police should have used this opportunity to place him somewhere. Instead he is back on the streets (I saw him today), continuing to scavenge, threaten people and urinate wherever.
The case of the man on the UWS who peed on Broadway (totally gross) - he has been living on the streets for years and is mentally ill. People like him, and they are many of them, should be off the streets, living in a facility where they can get their basic needs met: food, shelter, and medical supervision. There are many homes like this in the 5 boroughs. I know - I've seen them, and visited many for consideration of relatives who need housing and are also mentally ill. The police should have used this opportunity to place him somewhere. Instead he is back on the streets (I saw him today), continuing to scavenge, threaten people and urinate wherever.
1
The problem is really one of too many people, not enough bathrooms; and very few sanitary bathrooms. I am a frequent visitor to New York City and find it to be is the worst place to be when you need a bathroom. In the airport, I had to wait until a service person cleaned a stall because all of the toilets had been urinated on by other females. Another topic, but ladies, if you want to stand up and pee like a man, you must remember to put the SEAT UP! Try finding a clean toilet in Central Park--the ones I encountered, once directed by locals, had flooded floors and without the important essentials. I vowed to not travel to NYC again without packing a supply of toilet paper and a willingness to head for the bushes. I hope I never find myself in that position, but seriously, NYC has a bathroom shortage. Using subway elevators when pushing a stroller also suggests that those elevators are actually quick access latrines for the city's homeless and others who cannot wait to find an unlocked latrine. Breathing deeply or at all is not an option while the elevator is in use. So instead of
cracking down on the hapless who find themselves in need of a bathroom, address the real problem, sanitary bathrooms that are readily available to the public.
cracking down on the hapless who find themselves in need of a bathroom, address the real problem, sanitary bathrooms that are readily available to the public.
I was a telephone repairman for the phone company in 1969. Repair gets to do all the little jobs that seemingly have no one assigned to do them. One of those duties was trouble reports on dirty pay phone booths. For that purpose repairman carried rags, a spray bottle of ammonia, a broom and a mop on the truck. The problem was people urinating in the booths. That was easy to deal with. A little spray of ammonia and a swish of the mop and you were done. The worst was finding feces on the floor. That required stooping and picking up and a bigger stink. Then the ammonia and mop.
I didn't see anything about the "Number 2" problem in this article.
I didn't see anything about the "Number 2" problem in this article.
1
I think it should also be mentioned that Starbuck's has become the de facto public toilet facility in the city. The long lines at every one attest to that. Either the company has decided to follow a more humane path in creating that policy or they figure you rent coffee anyhow so what the hay. Because it certainly is true that there are few and far between public toilets available in Manhattan. In midtown it's either a Starbuck's or Bryant Park, Grand Central or The Port Authority. Such an absence is criminal and falls on the politicians and /or businesses who feel no guilt at not doing what they should be doing: providing facilities for the general public. I shudder to think what all those happy tourists come up against when the urge strikes them. And if tourism is such a boon to the economy than wouldn't it be reasonable to have businesses relax their horrid 'restrooms for customers only' policy? Not to mention that it would be a friendlier stance toward the general citizenry : Something so cold about outlawing body functions as if they don't exist for every human being.
3
This is a universal problem with no perfect solution. But maybe a very small tax of 1% on drinks to go could be used by the city to fund porta-potties. Not the most elegant of solutions, but it might help to relieve the situation. And any establishment selling drinks for consumption on the street such as coffee shops and the like should be required to have toilet facilities. If they make money filling you bladder, you should be able to empty it on their premises too.
4
Sadly, as with so many other dedicated funds, I can just see that money being spent elsewhere and the problem not being solved. The politicians just can't resist more money to play with for pet projects even if unrelated to the funding source.
2
Coming home from the bar once, in the middle of the night, I had to stop to urinate in the middle of Times Square; and this remains one of my absolute fondest memories from my time living in the city.
3
"the Police Department in recent months has suggested it would loosen its approach to public urination"
That's a relief!
That's a relief!
Public toilets, on the scale of kiosks throughout the city, would help! Those who don't use them could be fined and work off their fines with litter pickup in said cities!
1
Living in a destination neighborhood (East Village) the locals and me see a lot of this due to the excessive drinking by the bridge and tunnel set. The crime itself seems victimless (we've all had to go with nowhere to go) until you realize the smell lasts several days; a 30-second crime becomes a 3-day offense.
P.S. If there is a single reason not to wear flip-flops in NYC, this is it. That's not water you're getting on your feet, people.
P.S. If there is a single reason not to wear flip-flops in NYC, this is it. That's not water you're getting on your feet, people.
2
I am sorry, YES there are some quality of life crimes that we might begin to overloook. BUT, public urination is NOT one of them. Have you ever stepped into an elevator that has been peed in? Every stepped into a puddle of urine on a sidewalk? Besides the smell, it is unsanitary, and potentially unhealthy. Public urination, jay walking, and bike riding illegally ALL need to be prosecuted for the crimes they are.
12
I agree. And too bad if the offender has to appear before a judge and lose time from work. Maybe next time he or she will follow the law and won't have to miss work or pay a fine. The City Council head is wrong. Most New Yorkers want laws and penalties.
4
Speak for yourself I'm tired of the police state
1
The issue isn't toilets. It's the men who are urinating in public. They are mostly classless and or inconsiderate people in general. There have been times I have left work and passed upon small groups of men pissing between cars and then turning and waving their genitals at passerby. Is this a toilet issue or the sign of more deviant urges?
11
A suggestion: Signs outside of bars and restaurants reading reading "restrooms for patrons only" might read "restrooms for patrons and taxi drivers only"
1
Yep - that's the city I want to visit.
3
Against stupidity, even Ed Koch was powerless. Does no one remember the infamous Billie Boggs, a schizophrenic woman who urinated and defecated freely on E.64 and Second Avenue, in front of Swenson's Restaurant? She was arrested, involuntarily committed, forcibly medicated, sued the city--and won. She had the right to urinate and defecate on the street. So apparently, it's never been illegal to use public streets as a toilet. It's poor public policy to arrest public nuisances when there are no solutions to implement.
7
NYC is quickly gaining third world status. The city has gotten dirtier and more obnoxious than ever before. Why can't men control their urges. I do remember Ms. Boggs, but there are far fewer women than men who urinate in public. Men are basically pigs. With apologies to pigs.
1
@ Laura Hunt - I'm sure you know the definition of the word misandrist but tell us your opinion of misogynists.
3
Nice that they've identified an alley where such acts are routine; too bad they don't target the location with port-a-potties, rather than arrests.
6
• The offense — and others subject to possible changes, like biking on sidewalks and staying in parks after hours....
In case anyone doesn't know. There is a huge difference between urinating and bicycling on a sidewalk.
While urine may leave a faint and disagreeable scent temporary stain on a sidewalk – a "tradition" according to Mr. Gomez, 31, of Williamsburg – a bicycle on the sidewalk can lead to permanent injury as was my case in 2005 thanks to an errant and distracted delivery man pedaling carefree along East 10th Street in Manhattan. He stopped briefly to look back and kept right on going.
Still limping and in pain after ten years, much therapy and two operations, one a hip implant.
Only in civilized nations with a conscientious, disciplined citizenry like The Netherlands can pedestrians and cyclists safely coexist. New York City need not apply.
In case anyone doesn't know. There is a huge difference between urinating and bicycling on a sidewalk.
While urine may leave a faint and disagreeable scent temporary stain on a sidewalk – a "tradition" according to Mr. Gomez, 31, of Williamsburg – a bicycle on the sidewalk can lead to permanent injury as was my case in 2005 thanks to an errant and distracted delivery man pedaling carefree along East 10th Street in Manhattan. He stopped briefly to look back and kept right on going.
Still limping and in pain after ten years, much therapy and two operations, one a hip implant.
Only in civilized nations with a conscientious, disciplined citizenry like The Netherlands can pedestrians and cyclists safely coexist. New York City need not apply.
6
Pedestrians and cyclists safely co-exist in the Netherlands NOT because they are " conscientious [and] disciplined ", but because there are separate routes for motorists, pedestrians, AND cyclists. When each faction have their own path, there is no conflict.
In similar vein (and returning to the topic on hand), all the conscientious discipline in the world is rendered useless when no proper sanitation facility is available to facilitate one's excretory needs.
In similar vein (and returning to the topic on hand), all the conscientious discipline in the world is rendered useless when no proper sanitation facility is available to facilitate one's excretory needs.
You should be better informed, at least about the Netherlands, but Americans would never admit how socially backward and unsophisticated they are.
Ride 'em, cowboy!!!
"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." ~ OSCAR WILDE
• all the conscientious discipline in the world is rendered useless when no proper sanitation facility is available to facilitate one's excretory needs.
"I've often been asked, 'What do you do now that you're retired?' Well..., I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer, wine and whiskey into urine. It's rewarding, uplifting, satisfying and fulfilling. I do it every day and I really enjoy it."
~ Harold Schlumberg, American senior citizen and retired engineer
... and education!
"Never miss a good chance to shut up.” ~ WILL ROGERS
Ride 'em, cowboy!!!
"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." ~ OSCAR WILDE
• all the conscientious discipline in the world is rendered useless when no proper sanitation facility is available to facilitate one's excretory needs.
"I've often been asked, 'What do you do now that you're retired?' Well..., I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer, wine and whiskey into urine. It's rewarding, uplifting, satisfying and fulfilling. I do it every day and I really enjoy it."
~ Harold Schlumberg, American senior citizen and retired engineer
... and education!
"Never miss a good chance to shut up.” ~ WILL ROGERS
1
In two short years deBlasio has turned the city back a few decades. His laissez faire attitude is apparent. Now he's going on vacation again to Italy, stay there perhaps the Italians love you as much as you love yourself. Here's hoping to a 1 term mayor on par with David Dinkins as possibly THE worst mayor of the once great City of New York.
6
The police officer should be able to use his/her judgement. A warning or a ticket should be sufficient. Nobody should be arrested for public urination.
2
Not even in the middle of the street, like the Post photo? A few weeks ago around 6pm I witnessed a transient in the middle of the sidewalk on Broadway relieving himself for thee hole world to see. Sorry, that's unacceptable.
What's needed is some common sense. If you choose to urinate in the open, in front of everyone then, yes, you should be cited. I'm far less worried, however, about someone discreetly urinating in a dark alley with no one else around.
What's needed is some common sense. If you choose to urinate in the open, in front of everyone then, yes, you should be cited. I'm far less worried, however, about someone discreetly urinating in a dark alley with no one else around.
3
As a teacher I know simple warning don't work. The student says: "Sorry." which means Sorry you caught me, but turns the corner and out comes his cell phone or other infractions are broken. I agree we need public toilets which every mayor promises and never gets done. If people know that they can urinate anywhere, they will.
1
Perhaps walking down an alley that has been used as a public bathroom in the heat of summer would change your minds.
Rats love the salt in the urine and eat feces.
Rats love the salt in the urine and eat feces.
2
What's going on with the urine-repelling outdoor paint developed in Germany and being tested in San Francisco? That's the paint that makes the urine bead and bounce back, onto a man's shoes and pants.
see --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0TplqVTIo
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/03/16/Urine-repelling-wall-paint-coming...
see --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0TplqVTIo
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/03/16/Urine-repelling-wall-paint-coming...
5
Public toilets are really a crying need in the city, especially in summer when tourists from all over flock to the Big Apple. As a New Yorker, I've often on the sly advised tourists to use the restrooms at fast-food joints, and they've been uniformly grateful for the advice.
That said, I see little excuse for grown drunk men, hovering with open beer and liquor bottles in alleyways near bars (Bowery and Lower Manhattan in particular) justify themselves for publicly relieving the pressure in their bladders -- and at times, in full view of passing women. It has nothing to do with "race" (whites do it too!), but with the lack of civic sense and personal responsibility.
The Times these days seems to be particularly thin-skinned and more often than not attribute many of our civic problems to racial discrimination. I'm surprised that the newspaper hasn't yet called upon Mr. Bratton to invite Rev. Al Sharpton for his considered opinion, since so many Africa-Americans are apparently targeted by the NYPD. I'll bet Rev. Sharpton can add a valuable perspective.
That said, I see little excuse for grown drunk men, hovering with open beer and liquor bottles in alleyways near bars (Bowery and Lower Manhattan in particular) justify themselves for publicly relieving the pressure in their bladders -- and at times, in full view of passing women. It has nothing to do with "race" (whites do it too!), but with the lack of civic sense and personal responsibility.
The Times these days seems to be particularly thin-skinned and more often than not attribute many of our civic problems to racial discrimination. I'm surprised that the newspaper hasn't yet called upon Mr. Bratton to invite Rev. Al Sharpton for his considered opinion, since so many Africa-Americans are apparently targeted by the NYPD. I'll bet Rev. Sharpton can add a valuable perspective.
1
I rather like what they did in Germany I believe. They painted walls in alleys outside bars or in "high-peequency' areas with special a water-repellant paint that gives the donor his contribution right back at him at the same velocity.
It's amazing how many guys were able to stop once they realized they were on the rebound, so to speak. It really helped with public urination because no one knew if a wall was safe to use or not.
It's amazing how many guys were able to stop once they realized they were on the rebound, so to speak. It really helped with public urination because no one knew if a wall was safe to use or not.
11
Yep. Back to The Bad Old Days, one step at a time, under this disaster of a mayor.
7
A) Why in the world is Scott Stringer commenting on public urination? Why in the world is the NY Times publishing Scott Stringer's comments on public urination? Mr. Stringer is the comptroller. His job is to oversee city contracts and to ensure that the residents of New York City - taxpayers, his employers - are well represented in those contracts. His job is not to talk to reporters about crime, law enforcement, whether people feel safe at night, and how police ought to operate. I'm disappointed that the Times would indulge this attention seeking, political egomaniac in his obvious attempt to leverage his accounting job into a bigger role.
B) "...are they largely victimless acts that needlessly entangle... black and Hispanic men, in the justice system?" Basing a system of law enforcement on a perpetrator's race goes against everything our society is supposed to represent. Imagine the outrage if the justification were along the lines of "we don't like to give white men in suits citations for urinating in public because, well, they're white guys and giving them tickets would be inconvenient for them..."
Before you hit SUBMIT on the "white guys have been given advantages for years" comment, please remind yourself of that old saying... something about two wrongs and one right.
B) "...are they largely victimless acts that needlessly entangle... black and Hispanic men, in the justice system?" Basing a system of law enforcement on a perpetrator's race goes against everything our society is supposed to represent. Imagine the outrage if the justification were along the lines of "we don't like to give white men in suits citations for urinating in public because, well, they're white guys and giving them tickets would be inconvenient for them..."
Before you hit SUBMIT on the "white guys have been given advantages for years" comment, please remind yourself of that old saying... something about two wrongs and one right.
6
How about children? Will they get a summons if they need to pee outside?
I was with my son when he was 6 or 7 years old. He needed to pee urgently. I went into a diner in Greenpoint called Christina's and was refused use of the bathroom by my son by the owner herself. That was an unusual occurrence I believe.
How about for a minority person, it probably is much harder for them to get permission to use a store's facilities. As a white person, if I ask politely and I usually get permission to use the facilities.
On the other hand,
I was with my son when he was 6 or 7 years old. He needed to pee urgently. I went into a diner in Greenpoint called Christina's and was refused use of the bathroom by my son by the owner herself. That was an unusual occurrence I believe.
How about for a minority person, it probably is much harder for them to get permission to use a store's facilities. As a white person, if I ask politely and I usually get permission to use the facilities.
On the other hand,
2
We are become a society of no rules and each individual determines the rules as it pertains to them. The subway is a perfect example. There are rules but a large percentage just do what they want. Standing in the doorway, eating and drinking, leaving trash behind and taking up two seats (with the obesity epidemic this can be unavoidable), rushing the door to get on before people exit to name just a few. Yesterday on a downtown A train at 59th Street a man was trying to get off the train and was just about knocked over by a very large woman rushing to enter the train. He said, "The people have to get off the train first." and the large lady screamed twice, "I don't care!". This sums it up. Personally, I like rules. I follow rules. Rules and order make my life work. I was brought up that way and, guess what? I don't have a lot of problems in my life and I am relatively happy each day.
25
It's a dirty, filthy, lazy male habit. The only way to change this is to hit the offenders where it hurts the most - their bank acc. All the excuses about not having enough public loos is pathetic! Do you see woman & girls relieving themselves in public? But how about we start & then watch the outcry & rush of very strict laws & imprisionments!
4
Lots of animals urinate and defecate in our streets. Only one of them can use a public restroom. Responsible pet owners clean up after their pets. As for the members of the human species who choose to act like animals, their sentence should be to clean up after the other members of their ilk who do likewise - not a fine, largely uncollectable and way too impersonal for my tastes. My personal preference? Accompany the punishment with a shaming sign, similar to that which we see on naughty pets: I pee in the street and so now I have to clean it up.
4
I cant believe all this fuss is being made about urination when there are no public toilets for people to use! More importantly, if you're talking about quality of life and the overwhelming stretch of urine all over the city ....There are millions of dogs pissing constantly, especially on the UWS and it's never mentioned. There should be areas assigned for dogs to pee to elevate this disgusting trend. Some people own several huge animals. The City's becoming a cesspool! That and the massive piles of garbage. Get Starbucks, the organization that pays no tax to take care of all the millions of discarded containers that are generated. Scott Stringer, get it together please!
2
There are almost no public restrooms after 10 p.m. And some Starbucks and other coffee shops in busy areas have gotten rid of their public restrooms all together. Why can't there be for-pay toilets like in Europe? Or at least toilets in the subway stations?
8
New York City is not user-friendly. I suggest that tourist and people from New Jersey boycott New York City.
Back in the '70s, my father, then in his '60s was taking diuretics for high blood pressure. Driving South on the FDR he needed to pee, and drove around til he found a very secluded alley, and peed. Cops pulled up and cited him.
As we all know, citing my Dad for public urination ended the crime wave of the '70s.
As we all know, citing my Dad for public urination ended the crime wave of the '70s.
10
The real scandal is the absence of public restrooms. That lack is an indicator of a lack of civilized government and that in turn produced uncivilized actions out of desperation.
2
Human and animal excrement all over the sidewalks everywhere -- this is what we must continue to contend with in our cities and towns, so late into 'modern times'!? It's ridiculous that we tolerate as normal the offal in our streets. Not only are more public toilets needed for us humans, that is, for women and men, and especially for women, so that we can humanely and in a hygienic and civilized and discrete way excrete our wastes without soiling our streets (or ourselves!), but we must devise a way to keep all manner of our pets' waste from sidewalks and streets, too. (More like from the middle of sidewalks, and only from there. I mean, who bothers to curb their dog anymore?) Why do we put up with the filth at our feet, everywhere? It feels medieval. Humans peeing and dogs defecating right in our walk paths is not so far removed from when a chamber pot was emptied into a gutter. Can't we do better to clean up after ourselves, man, woman, and dog alike?! (And while we're at it, let's get rid of all that sidewalk gum residue that is always f...ing up the soles of my friggin' shoes, damn it! We seem to be the worst of the lot when it comes to befouling our own nest.)
1
People urinate publicly everywhere in New York City. And wherever bars are most plentiful, that's where it appears to happen most often. Men tend to go against walls. Women squat, often between parked cars. I've seen it for years. For decades. It's like Mardi Gras in New Orleans, only on a regular basis. People even defecate publicly. Just yesterday I saw a woman squat between two parked cars, where she changed her baby's diaper. The diaper was left in the gutter between the two vehicles. There was a trash receptacle only yards away. It's incivility of the highest order. And probably, if left to promulgate further, a public health hazard.
1
Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing,” .... I guess the long day robbing refers to the Wall Street analysts right?
2
I live in Paris, where this is treated more or less nonchalantly, rather than a crime (Parisian cops having been more concerned with busting UberPOP than tipsy party-goers relieving themselves under bridges by the Seine).
But that doesn't mean that Paris is ignoring it, or that New York should either. There is a much simpler solution than police: Install more public urinals in high pee-traffic areas.
There is a company that makes pop-up (literally) urinals that raises up from underground at set times of the day. Why not put these all over the city?
But that doesn't mean that Paris is ignoring it, or that New York should either. There is a much simpler solution than police: Install more public urinals in high pee-traffic areas.
There is a company that makes pop-up (literally) urinals that raises up from underground at set times of the day. Why not put these all over the city?
3
The Amsterdam solution is a nifty one. It not only solves the problem of keeping urine off the streets and sidewalks, but it also becomes a kind of tourist attraction, as well as giving exhibitionists a chance to relieve themselves of two urges at once--with no criminal penalty.
For those who would still stain the streets, some mildly primitive punishment would fit the crime. Perhaps a lashing--it starts to seem more appropriate and reasonable the more public behavior devolves--or perhaps 5 nights on urine clean-up duty, with lashings for no-shows. No criminal records necessary.
Of course, adequate public restrooms would help, too.
For those who would still stain the streets, some mildly primitive punishment would fit the crime. Perhaps a lashing--it starts to seem more appropriate and reasonable the more public behavior devolves--or perhaps 5 nights on urine clean-up duty, with lashings for no-shows. No criminal records necessary.
Of course, adequate public restrooms would help, too.
1
I recommend if you can,t hold it just let it go. Then be sure to ride public transportation for a few hours, maybe visit a few restaurants. Share the fact that despite no access to a public restroom you did the right thing. Urination is such an unnatural act I'm not sure why any of us engage in it.
1
here's a thought: why not build PUBLIC TOILETS!!!!
or is that too complicated?
or is that too complicated?
8
Always visit the toilet before leaving a bar or restaurant.
2
Rents are too high, murders are up since minor offenses are no longer addressed, so who cares about urinating as tourists will seek better venues outside of NYC as it slips back into the 70's
5
The way to stop people from peeing in public is to make the source of the liquids provide pee places, either bathrooms or public urinals. Paris used to have them. It is logically incoherent to allow beer to be sold, make it illegal to pee in public, and have no provision for public bathrooms.
As a stopgap solution, people could pee into sewers without being cited for public urination or indecency, and the smell would be less, especially if the sewers were hosed down along with sidewalks.
As a stopgap solution, people could pee into sewers without being cited for public urination or indecency, and the smell would be less, especially if the sewers were hosed down along with sidewalks.
3
Just today I saw a man urinating on a tree on busy Union Turnpike with people walking past him on one side, a line of cars stopped at the light in front of him and a line of people, including children, waiting for the bus beside him. As someone who uses the subway on a daily basis, a place where some men believe it is OK to use it as a urinal, I am tired of the stench! It is not a small offense. Overlooking quality of life crimes will bring this city back to the way it was in the 70's and 80's. No thank you.
12
Probably a majority of people are able to hold their urine for several hours, which is usually sufficient for finding an accessible toiler. They are the ones who say that you can simply "hold it". But for a significant minority, of both genders, that is not the case. If there are no public facilities, people will do what they have to do in whatever inconspicuous spot they can find to do it. Perhaps, as someone else suggested, restaurants and other places of public accommodation should be required to provide public restrooms. Municipally provided restrooms is the other answer. But what will not work is simply wishing the problem away.
4
You pee, you pay. This should be a fineable offence only. In Singapore, you get fined for not flushing public toilets (if caught) and also spitting on public roads (if caught). Plus littering, etc. Singapore rose from an only vaguely 2nd world city to being second to few in terms of cleanliness by mandating basic hygiene habits. To be personally tidy in Singapore is almost patriotic. Why, in such a great nation as ours, can't we demand such basic levels of sanitation? I don't want to see people hauled into the criminal justice system because they urinated in public. However, there is a lot to be said for creating incentives for people to take more responsibility for their bodily functions so that all of us can live in cleaner spaces.
Come on! This is not controversial NYT!
Come on! This is not controversial NYT!
10
I think it is silly to prosecute such 'offenses' as public urination.
The cycling on sidewalks matter, I'd like to see remain a misdemeanor, though. That should be available in case of biker-caused accidents or reckless conduct.
The cycling on sidewalks matter, I'd like to see remain a misdemeanor, though. That should be available in case of biker-caused accidents or reckless conduct.
2
I pity the Times journalist who was assigned the pee story by his editor...
The city should do everything it can to combat this. The city has always famously smelled of urine and it just lets you know, everywhere you go, that you're someplace dirty, where people are being thoughtless and ugly. Many other cities are far cleaner; urine and garbage aren't considered normal street scenery. We can change what's considered acceptable, and improve quality of life.
The city should do everything it can to combat this. The city has always famously smelled of urine and it just lets you know, everywhere you go, that you're someplace dirty, where people are being thoughtless and ugly. Many other cities are far cleaner; urine and garbage aren't considered normal street scenery. We can change what's considered acceptable, and improve quality of life.
10
For the people who complain there are "No" public restrooms, there are hundreds in parks. One reader even complained that there are no public restrooms in Central Park, when there are at least a dozen, all of them well-stocked and clean. Not all the public restrooms are perfect all the time, but they are mostly adequate, and some (Bryant Park) are superb. You can also find new public restrooms in Union Square, Washington Square, Battery Park, throughout Hudson River Park and Brooklyn Bridge Park, and in hundreds of other parks and playgrounds across the city
5
There has been a doubling of homeless people and beggars in the last month. The reduced citation of minor violations has only increased homeless vagrants begging and ruining our quality of life on the streets. The Mayor needs to bring back the old approach to policing. This is an EPIC FAIL!
8
Where the hell are all the public toilets?--stuck in PC limbo because of the absurd requirement that they all be wheelchair accessible. Result-no toilets, stinking streets, and the triumph of stupid policy makers.
13
I found the paragraphs about broken windows policing particularly interesting, as the arguments make no sense. "Crooks" engage in nuisance behavior? That is news to me. "Crooks" think they are businessmen, and careful crooks are particularly concerned with not drawing undue attention to themselves. If a city polices low-level offenders, low-level offenders are who will populate its jails.
As for public urination: it is a disgusting practice which for the most part nasty, arrogant morons engage in. It is an aggressive statement of disrespect born of feelings of inadequacy, which in turn are born of overly solicitous mothering of particularly untalented little boys.
Fines? Prosecutions? Whatever. But public shaming, notes to their mothers, bosses, coworkers -- and if they own businesses to their suppliers and employees -- might help.
Meanwhile, for the odd individual who can't find a toilet, installation of public toilets is the sort of practical government service that years ago was jettisoned in favor of making rich people as rich as possible and workers work more for less to make rich people rich.
As for public urination: it is a disgusting practice which for the most part nasty, arrogant morons engage in. It is an aggressive statement of disrespect born of feelings of inadequacy, which in turn are born of overly solicitous mothering of particularly untalented little boys.
Fines? Prosecutions? Whatever. But public shaming, notes to their mothers, bosses, coworkers -- and if they own businesses to their suppliers and employees -- might help.
Meanwhile, for the odd individual who can't find a toilet, installation of public toilets is the sort of practical government service that years ago was jettisoned in favor of making rich people as rich as possible and workers work more for less to make rich people rich.
6
It should the same as a traffic violation. People go out and have too much to drink, a bathroom is not available, and so they pee in the street, alley or bushes. What's the harm? More public bathrooms is the answer. And they need to be unisex so there isn't a big conflict as to where to go.
2
Completely agree with the posters pointing out that nobody HAS TO urinate in public. As a female, I somehow manage to hold it in, and I assure you my bladder has no superpowers. I'm tired of seeing men peeing everywhere -- not only is it gross and unsanitary, but I don't want to see you whipping it out in public. This should be fined more heavily, not overlooked.
21
“Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing."...so true, everyone knows financiers don't relax.
8
I don’t understand why these discussions always seem to equate public urination with bike-riding on sidewalks. Public urination is a nuisance but not a danger, and it's often not a choice (when you gotta go, you gotta go); sidewalk bicycling is a clear danger and ALWAYS indicates a deliberate decision to disregard the safety of others for one's own convenience.
The answer to public urination is more public restrooms. The answer to sidewalk bicycling is confiscation of the offendrrs' bikes.
The answer to public urination is more public restrooms. The answer to sidewalk bicycling is confiscation of the offendrrs' bikes.
3
In Mr. Maple's Wall-Street-vs-robbers example, the group that is "relaxing after a long day of robbing" must be the Wall Street analysts, of course. We can agree that we'd all be better off if the police focus on them, right?
5
There has to be something done as this is not 18th century England when emptying chamber pots out the window in the street was the norm. There is a reason that disease is not as rampant as then because we are much more civilized.
5
I might be wrong about this, but I heard some years ago that there are laws on the books tat make it illegal for any establishment to 1) deny someone a glass of water and 2) to deny them the use of a bathroom. if that's true, then every bar, restaurant, and store with a restroom is available to help reduce the problem.
6
Public urination is disgusting. I remember traveling to Rio De Janeiro and seeing men publicly urinate right in the middle of crowded sidewalks. I never wanted to go back to Rio after that. What a shame that De Blasio is letting this happen.
20
C'mon - ya gotta pee so pee. Those who object don't have to look and, besides, what are the doing in the neighborhood where it occurs? I have seen a tuxedoed individual walk out of a very classy hotel, unzip and pee, turn around and go back in. Doesn't the classy join have a men's room?
3
Except, um, girls? I assume your tuxedo'd person was a boy? If girls can hold it in, or otherwise suffer until it's appropriate to let go, why can't tuxedo-clad individuals do the same?
9
In the 1960's Paris had pissoirs which were several person urinals with a circular screen on many sidewalks. The screen was about from knee to head height. Yes, this was sexist because it served only men, but I bet almost all the people cited for public urination in NYC are males. The Paris pissoirs were so much more cost effective than the public toilets you see in San Francisco today. Why not put these devices up? It would be a public service, it would get the urine into the sewer, and it would eliminate almost all of the nuisance of the public urination.
9
But why must we accept the fact of a modern city with no public lavatories? Why? People are already sheep about the lack of pubic amenities, and all the focus is on training us to beg merchants to let us use employee-only restrooms?
4
I live in a country where men peeing in public are as ubiquitous as meter maids in Manhattan. Believe it or not there is a certain etiquette to it: cover yourself as much as possible and never pee directly on an occupied house or business, especially a police station. Unless drunk, of course.
1
The sophistication rating of a city must include adequate public toilets. And ones that are open at all hours (take note Paris!). With ageing populations in the western world we have more & more males (in particular) trying to find somewhere 'to have a pee'. Better planning and public services are the key.
3
Amazing.
An entire article about public urination without once mentioning the decided lack of public restrooms that is endemic to large American cities.
Might there just be a connection?
Sure, not everyone could avoid offense even if public restrooms were as available as in Tokyo or many other world class cities. But let's not pretend the problem isn't decidedly aggravated by the lack of facilities considered a necessity in most other nations.
Until a change in public policy makes meeting a basic human need practical, it makes no sense to treat public urination other than as the most minor of offenses.
An entire article about public urination without once mentioning the decided lack of public restrooms that is endemic to large American cities.
Might there just be a connection?
Sure, not everyone could avoid offense even if public restrooms were as available as in Tokyo or many other world class cities. But let's not pretend the problem isn't decidedly aggravated by the lack of facilities considered a necessity in most other nations.
Until a change in public policy makes meeting a basic human need practical, it makes no sense to treat public urination other than as the most minor of offenses.
6
I remember visiting New York about six years or so ago in the hot summer and walking by and through Central Park was disgusting with the stench of urine. I really don't recall any public restrooms. But we were museum and restaurant hopping so it was not an issue for us to use a restroom. We went to Paris two years ago in September and that place reeked worse than NYC. There is not a public restroom anywhere. The ones we saw had been chained off, just like there are no garbage cans there anymore. Nothing ruins a day like smelling urine everywhere.
11
Central Park has tons of public restrooms. For example, by the Delacorte Theatre, Bethesda Fountain, Cedar Hill section...They also exist in some larger subway stations (Penn Station, Times Square, etc.), hotel lobbies, department stores, coffee shops, fast food joints, libraries....
Adults should be continent. I can't even image why men think they "have to pee" on the street. They can hold it like women do. Public urination is a problem in third world countries. Men caught in NYC should be fined a sum large enough so they will think twice about performing their disgusting habit in public again.
18
My bladder calls at ungodly moments. What to do? I'm too reserved to make a habit of public peeing but when there's no alternative, well, let's just say I'd have been languishing in jail for ages now had I been apprehended in the act in my early years by the uniformed urinary constabulary. Worse, I might have been injured for peeing on the arresting officer's shoe, since my present age makes my aim uncertain. I've been lucky, and I have to admit that sometimes it just feels right provided some modesty and decorum are observed.
2
I am in my late 70's and have prostate related problems and sometimes can't avoid peeing in the street. I do it at secluded corners and discreetly. I don't see why I should be penalized while dogs are brought to relieve themselves in my street and in front of my house without incurring in any violation.
7
I'm sorry that you have a health issue but there are solutions to your particular problem - frequent urination in proper facilities so you don't get to the point of desperation... and Depends-type adult diapers. Many people use them and are discreet about it. It is absolutely not necessary to urinate on a street.
3
Humans presumably can plan ahead re: locating bathrooms, or using bladder control protection like Depends if they know they have a condition that makes it difficult to get to the bathroom.
It's not nearly as bad as it used to be. Now there's a Starbuck's on every corner, and they are NYC's public restrooms.
6
This reminds me of why I was so glad to move away from NY despite growing up there and loving it. Walking down a subway staircase and being peed on from above by a homeless guy. The stink of urine in subways. Walking down the street and seeing guys pee in broad daylight right in sight. Even in Penn Station, where there were public bathrooms, guys would pee in hallways and laugh when they saw they'd shocked you. Just gross.
4
City officials call a news conference to introduce the public toilet model that they plan to buy from the Netherlands for $5,000 per unit.
"Wait!" says the NYC Public Advocate. "These seem to have no safety features, which must be added."
"These would be built without union members," said the city's top labor boss. "Unacceptable. We must put them out to bid only to union shops."
"Hey, NYC's 120 different religions have different bathroom customs. All must be accommodated," says NYC diversity officer.
"The mayor intends to put 50% of them in Manhattan? Unacceptable," say the borough presidents of the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens. "We've already filed a class action lawsuit."
Final cost for each unit, $1.3 million, delivered 14 years late.
"Wait!" says the NYC Public Advocate. "These seem to have no safety features, which must be added."
"These would be built without union members," said the city's top labor boss. "Unacceptable. We must put them out to bid only to union shops."
"Hey, NYC's 120 different religions have different bathroom customs. All must be accommodated," says NYC diversity officer.
"The mayor intends to put 50% of them in Manhattan? Unacceptable," say the borough presidents of the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens. "We've already filed a class action lawsuit."
Final cost for each unit, $1.3 million, delivered 14 years late.
15
If I'm drunk on a Saturday night and pee in the open street, I deserve a fine, if not an arrest for breaking the peace. If I'm drunk on a Saturday night and creep into an empty alley to quietly relieve myself by a wall, who is harmed? Our problem is that we reflexively choose law and force to handle our unpleasantries, when what we really want is for people to act better to each other. That is an issue of culture, not law. Let's start there.
1
Without laws some people wouldn't have any 'culture'; they do what they can get away with.
At a red light, I watched a man finish his coffee and pastry and throw the paper and cup put the window into the middle of the street. Garbage cans on every corner, and he's in a car, for goodness sake, so he could certainly hold it. How do you change that behavior without laws? I've seen parents doing all kinds of things, with kids in tow. They're teaching the same crap to the next generation. How do you change that without laws?
At a red light, I watched a man finish his coffee and pastry and throw the paper and cup put the window into the middle of the street. Garbage cans on every corner, and he's in a car, for goodness sake, so he could certainly hold it. How do you change that behavior without laws? I've seen parents doing all kinds of things, with kids in tow. They're teaching the same crap to the next generation. How do you change that without laws?
12
The city seems to be systematically removing trash bins in many areas of the city and they recently quadrupled fines for putting personal trash into public trash cans. I'm not sure what is considered personal trash and what's considered public trash. I doubt he knows either. Maybe the driver considered the fine for putting his trash in the trash bin more than the fine for tossing it out the window in which case he's making a reasonable economic decision. ;-)
As an adolescent American living in Madrid, I saw every day old men and children leaning up against trees and buildings and urinating. I also saw young women on occasion baring a breast in the subway to give an infant a meal. Thought it odd, from an American perspective, but never noticed that it damaged Spain or Spaniards in any way. They always seemed to me to be a ton more practical than we in certain regards.
How is it that this is such a priority when we still do nothing when some beanbag in cracked, white patent-leather shoes and an ALTOGETHER too elevated notion of his own importance, abusively hits on a girl on one of New York's streets?
How is it that this is such a priority when we still do nothing when some beanbag in cracked, white patent-leather shoes and an ALTOGETHER too elevated notion of his own importance, abusively hits on a girl on one of New York's streets?
1
From broken windows to exploding bladders...
Who knew the recent design experiments with public toilets held the key to the safety of all New Yorkers?
Who knew the recent design experiments with public toilets held the key to the safety of all New Yorkers?
2
Now that it's Brooklyn hipsters who are being busted and not just "bums" or poor folks, it shouldn't be a crime? Yes we need public toilets but we also need respect on the part of the "men" who can't hold their liquor or overpriced craft beer.
7
Awful, just awful.
Why not give a tax credit to restaurants, stores, etc., that allow the public to use their bathrooms? Simply post a permit/sign in their windows re available bathroom. In light of the 421A giveaway debacle, this seems like it would be a far better use of limited city tax dollars.
5
There is not just a shortage of public restrooms NYC, there is a shortage of private ones as well. A bar that fits over 100 people downing pints of beer... one bathroom ought to do it. New York is an old city, as an older city it was designed without indoor bathrooms in mind. Why? Because all but the very rich did their business outdoors (in outhouses, or just on the street). Instead of rectifying this inherited design flaw, they decided to just ticket or arrest violators. Of all the "first-world" metropolises in the world, NYC has done the least to accommodate this basic human need. Tokyo has a (clean) public restroom at every subway stop, New Yorkers, can you even imagine such convenience.
10
NYC subway stops had restrooms. they closed them. people misused them.
3
There used to be public restrooms in subway stations. They were vile and dangerous and had to be closed. If people in the U.S. would treat public spaces the same way as people in other cultures do, maybe we'd have better and more public facilities.
9
It's always one extreme or the other. In a city which notoriously lacks public restrooms (Go to London if you want to see a civilised aproach to the problem) the mentality is that you have to either arrest everyone who does something admittedly gross (beating them up optional), or do nothing and let murderers run amok. Does anybody in charge think that there might be a lot of ground between those admittedly ridiculous positions?
Let me put it another way ... in this era of crazy politics, does anybody in charge THINK?
Let me put it another way ... in this era of crazy politics, does anybody in charge THINK?
12
I believe Starbucks have free restrooms. Do we need more Starbucks? I thought they were already on every corner.
3
A picture is worth a thousand words, and maybe that's not enough.
Saturday's NY Post front page says it all. It was a photo of a derelict urinating in Manhattan in the middle of traffic in broad daylight. No amount of words by the Times can soft pedal the impact of that. Mayor Giuliani cleaned up New York so visitors and residents could feel comfortable in the city. No more squeegee people harassing motorists, a lot fewer hookers plying their trade in the business districts, an no lingering essence of urine in the streets and subway stations.
It takes years to build a good reputation. It takes only an instant to ruin it. The Times should want a visitor friendly New York for the good of the city.
Saturday's NY Post front page says it all. It was a photo of a derelict urinating in Manhattan in the middle of traffic in broad daylight. No amount of words by the Times can soft pedal the impact of that. Mayor Giuliani cleaned up New York so visitors and residents could feel comfortable in the city. No more squeegee people harassing motorists, a lot fewer hookers plying their trade in the business districts, an no lingering essence of urine in the streets and subway stations.
It takes years to build a good reputation. It takes only an instant to ruin it. The Times should want a visitor friendly New York for the good of the city.
28
de Blasio has destroyed the legacy left behind by Giuliani and Bloomberg in two scant years..............shades of the 70's and early 80's are rearing their ugly heads. You're going to have some legacy there Bill.
Of course I'm all for more public toilets, but that isn't really the problem here. If women don't have to urinate in public then men don't either. I've been so desperate I was in tears, but I still always managed to find a toilet.
Sometimes it requires some planning ahead. As your mother always told you, use the facilities when they're available even if you think you don't need to, if you're not sure you'll be near any later; sometimes, drink less.
The penalty should be community service, cleaning up filth.
Please let us not accept this, or blame it on lack of facilities.
Sometimes it requires some planning ahead. As your mother always told you, use the facilities when they're available even if you think you don't need to, if you're not sure you'll be near any later; sometimes, drink less.
The penalty should be community service, cleaning up filth.
Please let us not accept this, or blame it on lack of facilities.
50
When you start seeing more evidence of quality of life decline; uninating on the street, more noise, more disorder, more filth, more bad influence on kids, you'll do what we all did; if you can, you'll move. You'll bring tax dollars elsewhere and you'll take the better role models, better educated, and wealthier residents with you. Those who will remain will be further isolated and left to a culture of poverty that will inhibit personal development. How many times to we need to learn this lesson.
17
On the issue of public urination, enforcement need not be evenhanded, according to Mr. Maple. In his 1999 memoir, “The Crime Fighter: Putting the Bad Guys Out of Business,” he wrote that “Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing,” he added, suggesting that officers should more heavily enforce the law in those areas.
The inference (in 1999) was to go after the East New York group. Today I hope we know better.
The inference (in 1999) was to go after the East New York group. Today I hope we know better.
4
How low can our standards possibly fall? Do these people have somethin wrong with their bladders? And why should a business have to hire someone who isn't toilet trained?
As to bicycles on the sidewalk, I humbly suggest that those who don't want to enforce the law go and get run over by one.
Even if broken windows policing weren't successful, a handful of irresponsible louts will rapidly ruin the quality of life in a neighborhood if their offenses are overlooked. Not only does that hurt the law-abiding majority in the neighborhood, it hurts the neighborhood by driving away customers and business.
As to bicycles on the sidewalk, I humbly suggest that those who don't want to enforce the law go and get run over by one.
Even if broken windows policing weren't successful, a handful of irresponsible louts will rapidly ruin the quality of life in a neighborhood if their offenses are overlooked. Not only does that hurt the law-abiding majority in the neighborhood, it hurts the neighborhood by driving away customers and business.
21
there used to be public toilets - in subway stations, in parks... most had to be closed due to the horrible ways people used them (whether crime or just filthy hygiene). public toilets is not the answer - just more expectations that everything should be provided to everyone, at the public's expense.
i disagree! and as a woman who can't and doesn't pee in public, this shouldn't even be a debate. why would anyone think it's ok to inflict your bodily waste on the rest of society? why would anyone else consider lack of public toilets as an acceptable excuse????
leave no trace. get potty trained, it's useful. & please don't call it "littering", that's just a lie.
i disagree! and as a woman who can't and doesn't pee in public, this shouldn't even be a debate. why would anyone think it's ok to inflict your bodily waste on the rest of society? why would anyone else consider lack of public toilets as an acceptable excuse????
leave no trace. get potty trained, it's useful. & please don't call it "littering", that's just a lie.
25
Maybe it shouldn't be a felony, but then the fine should be increased dramatically to $500-1000. You pay more for a parking ticket at the current rate of $50 and it is disgusting to have to smell urine. It totally says, "This is not a safe place." and reminds be of the days when NYC wasn't a safe place.
18
I guess maybe I'd lean more toward punishment if New York City had safe public restrooms. As it currently stands, New Yorkers have few options. If you do need to go to the bathroom, other than a Starbucks, you're pretty much out of luck. I am forced to carry my company id card with me if I visit on weekends so I can make a quick stop at my office if nature calls. Certainly on this issue, New York can do better.
36
"'Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots' on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public “as a crew of robbers drinking malt liquor” in East New York, Brooklyn. “But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing,” he added, suggesting that officers should more heavily enforce the law in those areas."
Oh, those Wall Street folks do plenty of robbing. Just not the kind we tend to use our police or prosecutors for, evidently.
Oh, those Wall Street folks do plenty of robbing. Just not the kind we tend to use our police or prosecutors for, evidently.
17
I've lived in Manhattan for 37 years. There's always been a shortage of clean, safe, public urinals. There's always been a problem for those who can't manage stairs getting into/out of the subway system.
New York City isn't so wonderful or world important anymore it can afford to ignore this stuff.
Let's get the techie folk to dream up an Uber-type Urinal-mobile, a fleet of which can be deployed to "problem areas".
Are we really this helpless?
New York City isn't so wonderful or world important anymore it can afford to ignore this stuff.
Let's get the techie folk to dream up an Uber-type Urinal-mobile, a fleet of which can be deployed to "problem areas".
Are we really this helpless?
8
Punish offenders with a fine or community service. Make them power wash the sidewalks and the sides of buildings.
27
Agreed. Same with graffiti and litter.
8
Fines, misdemeanors, police, judicial system... Not a single word about actually solving the problem. It is called PUBLIC TOILET and it can be constructed to be low maintenance (see ones in Paris). It will probably cost a fraction of the money needed to pay cops, judges and other public employees that are apparently making a living on other people bladders.
Hand in hand in providing functioning, modern public toilets the fines for public urination should be quadrupled in areas that have access to public toilets.
Hand in hand in providing functioning, modern public toilets the fines for public urination should be quadrupled in areas that have access to public toilets.
11
This has little to do with the availability of public toilets.
This is mostly just outré behavior.
San Francisco installed JCDecaux toilets some years ago and they quickly became a filthy mess. Then there were cries for even more 'clean, safe well-lit public toilets' never mind that the JCDecaux 'clean, safe well-lit public toilets' has quickly been trashed into revulsion.
San Francisco still reeks of urine in a lot of places.
When I lived in Jersey City and barhopped on many a weekend night in Manhattan, I never PIPed. Just not that difficult to plan ahead-if you want to.
This is mostly just outré behavior.
San Francisco installed JCDecaux toilets some years ago and they quickly became a filthy mess. Then there were cries for even more 'clean, safe well-lit public toilets' never mind that the JCDecaux 'clean, safe well-lit public toilets' has quickly been trashed into revulsion.
San Francisco still reeks of urine in a lot of places.
When I lived in Jersey City and barhopped on many a weekend night in Manhattan, I never PIPed. Just not that difficult to plan ahead-if you want to.
20
At least men have the option to discreetly pee outside of restrooms when they really, really need to go. As a woman who makes long trips on highways there are often "rest areas" with no toilets but serve as de facto places for men to relieve themselves. Recently I've found a solution which works at these areas or before leaving a car for a hike: open both doors to create a visual barrier and pee into a plastic cup! I wouldn't do this in a populated or urban places but it solves the ongoing problem: where do women pee. You need a car though.
6
The people who did it, as a rule, just had no chance to use a toilet in that very moment. But, frankly speaking, girls don't do this so often, because this is not such an easy thing for them. Maybe, appearance of new free and clean restrooms in New York could influence at the situation
3
I am all for arrest of those boys who urinate in public. It is disgusting. Other than that, I oppose the "Broken Windows' policy.
6
When someone pees on your car it is a nuisance, when they pee on mine it is a crime; when they jump your turnstile, they are stealing from you, when they jump mine they are stealing from me and should be arrested.
Didn't we just go thru all this in the 1990s and everyone agreed we don't want our streets to be used as public toilets and our turnstile to be recommendations for donation.
What is with the current administration???
Didn't we just go thru all this in the 1990s and everyone agreed we don't want our streets to be used as public toilets and our turnstile to be recommendations for donation.
What is with the current administration???
39
In the past year there has been a definite decline in quality of life on our Upper West Side. Particularly around Riverside Park. Every morning (and this is at 6AM) I find people sleeping in the ivy - just yesterday 12 people scattered throughout the park sleeping. Empty Jack Daniels bottles strewn around the Firemen's memorial - and in one case last week a young man staggering out from where he was sleeping behind a bush to urinate on the wall of this memorial. Not a policeman in sight - nothing has been done for months now. The odor of human feces is appalling - someone even threw there dead cat in a plastic bag over the wall and left it there - it was reported three days ago and it is still there decomposing and no one can even sit on the benches because of the awful odor. What is happening? I have lived up here for 20 years and don't remember it being this bad....
43
When jumping turnstiles, drinking alcohol on the street, and peeing in public are reduced to "part of city life," this city is going to make the 1980s look like a tea party.
They create a sense of chaos, that no one is in charge, and no one cares.
They create a sense of chaos, that no one is in charge, and no one cares.
52
This is the guts of broken windows policing. The idea is that if one window is broken and stays that way it will become more likely that an area, a block, a house will be further neglected or destroyed. This is the same idea as not letting children get away with gradually bigger offenses until you find out they commit a BIG one and you cannot stop it.
Bratton is trying to maintain these as offenses by saying that small arrests may leAd cops to find out that arrestees are wanted for bigger things. But the other aspect to this is that if people know they are going to get caught in the small things they may not try the large.
I lived in the city in the bad old days.Some younger people believe it will never come back or do not even recognize how bad it was. All this business about public toilets is true; there are not many places to go in NYC if one is away from stores, etc. But we are not talking about someone's who is desperate once in their life here, folks. These people getting out of bars and ruining the streets and neighborhoods around them are not your poor, downtrodden souls.
They're partiers in bars, which after all do have restrooms. And if turnstile jumpers are allowed to do so at will then people will become afraid to ride the subways. Your turnstile jumpers are not all angels pulling pranks.
Bratton is trying to maintain these as offenses by saying that small arrests may leAd cops to find out that arrestees are wanted for bigger things. But the other aspect to this is that if people know they are going to get caught in the small things they may not try the large.
I lived in the city in the bad old days.Some younger people believe it will never come back or do not even recognize how bad it was. All this business about public toilets is true; there are not many places to go in NYC if one is away from stores, etc. But we are not talking about someone's who is desperate once in their life here, folks. These people getting out of bars and ruining the streets and neighborhoods around them are not your poor, downtrodden souls.
They're partiers in bars, which after all do have restrooms. And if turnstile jumpers are allowed to do so at will then people will become afraid to ride the subways. Your turnstile jumpers are not all angels pulling pranks.
4
Getting away from all urine all the time............and addressing the larger issue of "broken windows" policing. There is (perhaps) a middle way.
DON"T ignore these minor violations. At the same time, don't allow a small fine escalate into an event that ruins someone's life (i.e. jail time for inability to pay, a permanent record which may be a serious bar to housing, or the job market, not to mention being put in a stranglehold). Devise punishments which fit the crimes such as community service including a "rehabilitative" component so that offenders "get it" and might be less likely to be repeat offenders.
DON"T ignore these minor violations. At the same time, don't allow a small fine escalate into an event that ruins someone's life (i.e. jail time for inability to pay, a permanent record which may be a serious bar to housing, or the job market, not to mention being put in a stranglehold). Devise punishments which fit the crimes such as community service including a "rehabilitative" component so that offenders "get it" and might be less likely to be repeat offenders.
12
I saw someone urinating on the sidewalk on the north side of 42nd street between 8th and 9th ave (near the new apartment buildings) at around 8:30 am on a weekday. I previously lived in this area (about 7 years ago) and this was not going on.
9
I was shocked at what I saw in my last vsit to Manhattan last Christmas. Public urination right in the Broadway show areas. No one doing anything. The cops were occupied, though, by the protesters yelling vile things in their faces trying to get them to overreact.
You want to return to the bad old days? Have the police not enforce the law. You'll find out soon enough what it was like in the '70s when you could not ride the subways from the Bronx to Manhattan to see a show or go to a museum. Or return to the '80s and '90s when there were thousands of murders a year. You think tourists will keep coming, students coming to schools and feel safe traveling the subways at all hours, former New Yorkers like me spending a few days annually in the city, supporting the economy, rather than always staying with my family in the 'burbs? Any city can backtrack. I hope New York is not starting to do so now.
You want to return to the bad old days? Have the police not enforce the law. You'll find out soon enough what it was like in the '70s when you could not ride the subways from the Bronx to Manhattan to see a show or go to a museum. Or return to the '80s and '90s when there were thousands of murders a year. You think tourists will keep coming, students coming to schools and feel safe traveling the subways at all hours, former New Yorkers like me spending a few days annually in the city, supporting the economy, rather than always staying with my family in the 'burbs? Any city can backtrack. I hope New York is not starting to do so now.
3
Wish they'd come down to Philly to enforce it and write tickets. In the Point Breeze neighborhood they pee right on the 17 police district building and not a single person in the building cares. The rest of the neighborhood has to endure the stench wafting through air.
7
We need public toilets, not more cops to arrest people. As I traveled through Chinese cities over the years, one of the things that has been most evident is the availability of public toilets. Where are ours. When I go out in New York, I have to plan my day, so that I can be near one if I decide to have tea, or even water. When I'm in Central Park all day, there are so few public toilets that I feel embarrassed for my city, for my country.
73
You do realize that the reason China has so may public toilets is because, until 10-15 years ago, many homes did not have private toilet facilities? Those public bathrooms were often the bathrooms for the entire neighborhood. I visited a working class neighborhood in Tianjin, a major port city, in 2012 where the homes still did not have private toilet facilities.
1
Don't blame the person peeing for this mess, blame the pee manufacturers. The cafe and bar owners that fill people with fluids are to blame. The city gets a hefty chunk of cash from the taxes on beverages that cause pee violence - they should be held responsible.
We must stop pee at the source. Close all bars and restaurants. Limit fluid sales at grocery store and bodegas. Investigate the adult diaper manufacturers. I'm sure they are mixed up in this as well.
We must stop pee at the source. Close all bars and restaurants. Limit fluid sales at grocery store and bodegas. Investigate the adult diaper manufacturers. I'm sure they are mixed up in this as well.
7
Well, last century we took care of the "squeegee boys", so this looks like the great civil rights challenge for this century. Shouldn't be a problem given state-of-art of drone and camera technology.
And while we're at it, how about the grubby guys (and gals) in raggedy clothes who scribble something on a piece of cardboard and stroll up and down the concrete medians (and out in the traffic when it's stopped at a light) begging for handouts?
And while we're at it, how about the grubby guys (and gals) in raggedy clothes who scribble something on a piece of cardboard and stroll up and down the concrete medians (and out in the traffic when it's stopped at a light) begging for handouts?
10
Cameras and lights could mounted on the walls above the places that attract repeat offenders, along with signs that say "Warning: You are being filmed. Your faces and junk will be posted on the Internet for all to see! You will also be fined." Then publicize the website. The whole Internet (and the NY Post and TMZ) would take care of the punishment (including making fun of some guys' shortcomings -- the guys will hate that). From Wall St. traders to college students, offenders will be shamed by being much more widely and literally exposed.
Before everyone piles on about this idea, it's meant to be tongue in cheek and not taken seriously. Still, in the future, cameras will be everywhere and many urinating guys might actually be caught and revealed this way. Watch out, bros and dudes!
Before everyone piles on about this idea, it's meant to be tongue in cheek and not taken seriously. Still, in the future, cameras will be everywhere and many urinating guys might actually be caught and revealed this way. Watch out, bros and dudes!
3
There is an absolute dearth of public bathrooms in the city. What are people supposed to do to relieve themselves? And I'm not talking about people drinking malt liquor at 2 in the morning. The absence of public bathrooms effects everyone all the time. And if Barnes and Noble goes the way of Borders, there will be even fewer options available for those desperate to answer nature's call.
6
An attorney who specializes in public urination cases? Wow. Clarence Darrow should have thought of that!
3
Why does anyone-- the homeless and destitute, Wall Streeters--think he has the right to relieve themselves in public spaces? The streets, sidewalks and parks belong to everyone, which means they are not substitute restrooms for anyone. It's that's simple. New Yorkers may well ask themselves why this has suddenly become a problem again, when for years courtesy and consideration was the standard, and no one missed the smell of urine.
16
And just where is it that they are supposed to relieve themselves? Ever been in a city in a civilized country? Plenty of public facilities, sometimes for a nominal fee.
As a frequent visitor to NYC. I am always having problems finding somewhere to use a restroom. There are virtually no public restrooms anywhere. I believe this is done to generate business for restaurants. Because that is the only option and most of the restaurants will not allow anyone to use a restroom unless they are buying something. So every trip we are stopping in somewhere having a snack or having a drink just to use the facilities. That stinks! The city should have some sort of public facilities available, and stop fining people for doing what they have to, but have no place to do it.
59
Go to department stores, barnes&noble, etc.
There are public spaces with restrooms such as libraries, centers like the Time Warner, Central Park, Whole Foods etc. But no question, the city should build public toilets like they have in Europe. Cab drivers should be allowed to pull over, hazards on, for a minute when necessary.
And that doesn't always work. I had a meal in a restaurant so I could use the bathroom and they wouldn't permit me. Usually the excuse is "the toilets broken, " and it's never broken. I felt like just sitting there and peeing on the chair. But then I would have been ticketed for public urination. I left never to return.
In the immortal words of David Letterman, the city is going to gradually decriminalize this issue by legalizing alternate side of the street public urination.
5
For those of you who drive on 495 in NY, not everyone pulled over on the grass/shoulder has a right side tire that is a flat. Notice how the vehicle doors are utilized as a means of privacy, there are many instances.
1
Only in America do we "solve" the problem of insufficient public toilets by arresting people for peeing.
12
why doesn't the city build more public toilets?
7
Really? We're turning back the clock? I remember in the 70's and 80's the stench of urine everywhere. This is ludicrous. Enforce the law. Make arrests.
Peace offering...gimme a break.
Peace offering...gimme a break.
21
This is ridiculous. A crime is a crime. Any time the police see someone violating the law they should enforce the law with an arrest or a citation. We are suppose to be a nation of laws and not of men. If the law is to be changed it is up to the legislature not the policeman. For those who complain about too much enforcement the solution is to change the law or to change the attitude and actions of the law breakers. We fought a Revolution to ensure that the law was applied equally and was not selectively enforced.
11
"Wall Street analysts doing Jell-O shots” on Madison Avenue may be just as likely to urinate in public" as a bunch of guys in less fancy areas, Mr.Maple noted. "But only one of those groups is likely to include somebody who’s relaxing after a long day of robbing."
Yep. The Wall Streeters.
Yep. The Wall Streeters.
19
Public urination in subway stations should continue to be a misdemeanor. The smell lingers and concentrates underground far longer than it does above ground in the open air. The Chambers Street E station is particularly nasty.
106
Ditto the underpass at Lincoln Center. Seriously, every subway staion is a urinal and they are never cleaned. When Bloomberg was mayor, at least they were bleached. No. Lack of restrooms are not the problem. It is failure on the part of sanitation and basic maintenance of public areas, especially in subway stations.
2
The bigger problem is a lack of public bathrooms, just ask any cabbie or any woman! This article fails to mention that public urination is something men get to do but women don't have as a safe option. I don't know many women who would feel comfortable going into an alley, particularly one near a bunch of bars, where there are a bunch of drunk men around. I lived in NYC for years and I'm very comfortable in the city at night, but this is one thing I would never feel safe doing. We need more public toilets. clean, well lit, safe, public toilets!
148
Yet notice that the ladies, who actually have smaller bladders, generally manage to do a lot less public urinating. Most of us know how to find the fast food places, coffee shops, parks, stations, department stores, etc. that have public bathrooms. Public urination is more of a proxy charge for "annoyingly drunk and disorderly". And if you've ever come within a hair of being mowed down, you know that bicycling on the sidewalk is not so trivial in New York City.
11
How much does the city spend every year, arresting and processing people for public urination? To what good end?
At least half of this amount, or more, should be dedicated to providing public urinals in those locations showing the most of the arrests, such as the location mentioned in the article. Perhaps a "public sanitation" fee could be tacked on to the license fee for retail liquor outlets.
A public urinal doesn't need to be an expensive palace. But it does need to be a place that's publicly accessible, where it's acceptable to relieve oneself.
At least half of this amount, or more, should be dedicated to providing public urinals in those locations showing the most of the arrests, such as the location mentioned in the article. Perhaps a "public sanitation" fee could be tacked on to the license fee for retail liquor outlets.
A public urinal doesn't need to be an expensive palace. But it does need to be a place that's publicly accessible, where it's acceptable to relieve oneself.
3
Most fast food places, coffee shops, etc. restrict use of their restroom to customers. Although when out and about my women friends usually have no problem in getting an exception, where I I either have to buy a coffee or a taco.
In light of the thousands of dogs urinating and defecating on the sidewalks daily, I'm really not sure that this is the most pressing problem I would have the police addressing. Should I be any happier having to side step yellow puddles and brown spackle (or worse), simply because it came from a dog? Rather, I would have everyone of those officers on the pee patrol in the street keeping pedestrians safe.
10
I think dog urine is a significantly greater and more repulsive problem than human urine. You can't walk anywhere in a residential neighborhood in New York without seeing glistening puddles everywhere. And dogs, unlike humans, do not have any sense of shame or decorum and so pee in broad daylight, in the middle of the sidewalk. In the summer, you can barely walk down the street in the afternoon without your nostrils being assaulted by the strong odor of dog urine. I have always wondered why more people don't complain about this!
110
And what do you propose be done about dogs peeing in the street? They can't help it and neither can their owners! Do you want dogs to pee in their homes instead? Or hold it until they arrive at a suitable location? Humans, for the most part, can and should control their bladders and pee in a toilet!
10
Dogs are supposed to urinate and defecate in the street gutter by the curb, not on sidewalks, gardens, or house steps.
11
Based on the number of licences pet dogs in NYC and the average urine production per day for dogs (thanks GOOGLE) the daily amount of dog urine in NYC is equal to 5 semi tanker trucks. If I claim I think I am a dog can I get out of a citation?
1
Here in San Francisco, we have a problem with non-discreet public defecation
10
You should visit Wall Street on a bad day in the market.
7
If the city was really interested in quality of life instead of picking on desperate and unfortunate people, we would just have more safe, clean places to urinate. A lot more.
I'm sure we can find a couple of million in the $75 billion a year budget to deal with this, but it's much easier to shame the homeless, and apparently for some people, it makes them feel better about themselves.
This shouldn't even be a police issue, it ought to be a sanitation issue. This is an easy problem to address, and the fact that this article doesn't focus on the easy solution should bother people.
And another thing, demagogues like the people writing for the New York Post are trying to mislead the public by lumping together issues like bicycling on a empty sidewalk with public urination. These two issues are completely different, yet the framers of this debate lump them together in order to distract people from the actual problem this policy creates.
I'm sure we can find a couple of million in the $75 billion a year budget to deal with this, but it's much easier to shame the homeless, and apparently for some people, it makes them feel better about themselves.
This shouldn't even be a police issue, it ought to be a sanitation issue. This is an easy problem to address, and the fact that this article doesn't focus on the easy solution should bother people.
And another thing, demagogues like the people writing for the New York Post are trying to mislead the public by lumping together issues like bicycling on a empty sidewalk with public urination. These two issues are completely different, yet the framers of this debate lump them together in order to distract people from the actual problem this policy creates.
15
There's bicycling on an empty sidewalk, yes. And then there's playing 'chicken' with pedestrians on Midtown sidewalks.
2
There is bicycling on an empty sidewalk when a child is learning to ride a two-wheeler without training wheels, and there is bicycling on an sidewalk by a full grown adult riding his bike like a speeding car changing lanes. If you do not think you can be hurt or worse by a moving bike, recall the women killed by a speeding bicyclist in Central Park.
As far as the public urinators, this is beyond shaming the unfortunate. The partiers exiting bars are hardly homeless. The lawyer who specializes in public urination cases deals with college students and paying others. I guess drinking students will have to include attorney fees as a cost of doing business along with tuition if they drink to excess and don't have the decency to use the facilities where that have been drinking.
As far as the public urinators, this is beyond shaming the unfortunate. The partiers exiting bars are hardly homeless. The lawyer who specializes in public urination cases deals with college students and paying others. I guess drinking students will have to include attorney fees as a cost of doing business along with tuition if they drink to excess and don't have the decency to use the facilities where that have been drinking.
Come to think of it there's a place this tradition started: medieval Europe. Turns out that men's urine, and only men's, once it's fermented a bit, produces chemicals that can be used to make extremely vivid dyes, and this was done at the time. So villages had little pottery urns all over town, for public usage, and men would make contributions to them, that would get turned into dyes.
Could be then that some sort of Jungian subconscious memory is spurring this, but also, eventually we're going to need that extra fluid and minor fertilizer for plant life, so I wouldn't be surprised if within 50 years we're asking for public donations of pee again.
Could be then that some sort of Jungian subconscious memory is spurring this, but also, eventually we're going to need that extra fluid and minor fertilizer for plant life, so I wouldn't be surprised if within 50 years we're asking for public donations of pee again.
2
How about providing public bathrooms?
17
Paris used to have "pismires"--for men, of course. And they were fairly numerous, but stank badly so that the smell never lifted. So, about twenty-five years ago they were removed. Paris has a problem w public urination, both female and male variants.
Lots of people saying here that we New Yorkers need to see how they tackle this problem in Europe. Well, I once saw a naked man defecating on a piece of cardboard in broad daylight in the middle of the street in Rome. An unpleasant sight I thankfully have never witnessed here in NYC. The solution; raise the fine to something like $500. Then enforce it fairly without simply ticketing low income offenders. Ticket the bar hopping Wall Street traders too. The thought of having to pay a whopping fine would hopefully be enough of a deterrent that most of these slobs would keep it zipped.
10
And I'm sure when you saw the guy, you felt sorry for yourself because you had to watch it instead of feeling sorry for the guy.
3
He gets your point, madame, but the man in question just might
be a well paid iBanker. Or perhaps a law professor at one of the local
universities. Last but not least, and probably the most likely: a journalist with a free spirit, eh?
be a well paid iBanker. Or perhaps a law professor at one of the local
universities. Last but not least, and probably the most likely: a journalist with a free spirit, eh?
Where there are clusters of bars, require the bars to hire security guards and to rent port-o-potties. Take pictures of violators and post the pictures in each bar. Next time an offender comes in, charge him a surcharge to reimburse the bars.
40
Yes it is disgusting and something should be done but...well to put it mildly when you have to go you have to go. There should be a law, and I know some will claim it is not a good law, that no merchant can prohibit somebody from using its facilities. These signs restrooms are for customers only must go. Period. Such a law, I believe, exists in Toronto. I also know when I go into a pub in London never once have I ever seen such a sign. I am sure we will get the usual complaints how bad things can start happening if restaurants and the like were reqired to make their facilities avable but we are all human beings. No sane person can possibly have the slightest objection to this.
BTW. Another place where you can almost always count on having facilities to use outside of NYC, of course, is McDonalds. I also use Starbucks all the time
BTW. Another place where you can almost always count on having facilities to use outside of NYC, of course, is McDonalds. I also use Starbucks all the time
7
There is one quick solution for merchants who object to persons other than their customers using their restrooms. Some years ago, while on a road trip through Galena, IL., I stepped into a Greek Restaurant to use the facilities. When the proprietor objected, I asked him whether he preferred that I go to the middle of the floor where his customers were dining and urinate there, rather than using the restroom.
Needless to say, he immediately dropped all of his objections!
Needless to say, he immediately dropped all of his objections!
6
Mike 71 has a good solution. Also if we were in states that tend to vote Republican, if a proprietor denied a request to use the bathroom, we could simply wave our shotgun around in a casual manner and say it would be terrible if the bladder pressure caused a gunfight to break out instead, which would surely be convincing.
1
Several decades ago, while bicycling home in the Sonoma County wine country, a winery refused to allow my wife to use the toilet at its tasting room on the grounds that they were closing soon. There was no way she could hold it, so she defecated right on their porch. I doubt if they ever turned someone away again.
4
Finally! A job the cops are qualified for and will be permitted to do........I wonder how they will judge, and if they will be wearing body cameras.....I sure hope not.....But, we DO have to get urination under control. A national disgrace!
3
Amsterdam and many other places in The Netherlands have ingeniously designed public urinals. One steps into a small circular metal enclosure right on the sidewalk of a busy street, which, like a bathroom stall, is open close to the ground, so you can see by someone's feet if it is occupied. While unfortunately for women they are designed for males, they re quite spartan and can't possibly be expensive to build.
Relative to the cost of law enforcement and the harm done over a lifetime to unlucky offenders caught in the act, the public benefit would be extraordinary.
Let's copy the pragmatic Dutch, who certainly figured out how a civilized society should treat marijuana consumption decades before America.
Relative to the cost of law enforcement and the harm done over a lifetime to unlucky offenders caught in the act, the public benefit would be extraordinary.
Let's copy the pragmatic Dutch, who certainly figured out how a civilized society should treat marijuana consumption decades before America.
137
Aren't the Dutch just the coolest, most sane people on the planet?!
1
So we should build facilities for men only, because otherwise they'll pee on the street, and let women continue to desperately search for restrooms?
If we're going to build them, build them for everyone.
If we're going to build them, build them for everyone.
3
I doubt that "New Amsterdam" is up to the task. BTW, the Dutch have changed some \of the pot laws now excluding pot tourists. Live here, smoke it here.
I just googled " public restrooms in new york city" and there are multiple websites, maps etc listing public restrooms across the city. People claiming a dearth of restrooms and their right to urinate in the streets either work for the pee lawyer or are fooling themselves.
6
Are you really suggesting that the solution is to have the homeless and destitute pull out their iPhones and google the nearest restroom ?
You really set a new level for out of touch. Are you our last mayor ?
You really set a new level for out of touch. Are you our last mayor ?
21
I don't believe the homeless and destitute are the only ones urinating in public. And if you think public urination is acceptable, please post your address so people know where to "go."
11
Indeed. And I'm sure that website has a dedicated webmaster to be sure it's kept up to date, and that when the time comes that I need to pee, no matter where in the city, that the website you mention should show a public restroom within steps of me.
5
This council speaker and the mayor are two whacko peas in a pod. Why don't they invite every person who commits these "victimless offenses" to do so on their block???? All the urinators - weed smokers - loud music players - graffiti artists - etc. should set up shop on their blocks to feel "safe". Give me a break. I admit to urinating in public when there was no bathroom near and I couldn't hold it. Had I been fined - well so be it. I wouldn't cry about it. I do my best. Most stores reserve bathrooms for customers. It's cheaper to buy a sandwich than pay a ticket - so that is most often what I would. Fact is that just like litter bugs - most of these urinators just don't care. They don't mind filth. We need more enforcement - especially or rat attracting litter. I wasn't raised like a pig so I don't know why I should have o be subjected to this in order to spare some people's feelings. How did these people get elected???
11
Andre given your numerous comments defending street urinators, I wonder if you aren't a chronic offender. Perhaps you should consult a urologist if you truly find it so hard to maintain bladder continence in public.
5
Emily, my dear, you must not have comprehended Andre's post wherein he comes down squarely opposed to street unrinators. If his post strongly defends them, I need to go back to school.
S
S
2
I have read about scientific studies done to see how far various breeds of dogs have evolved from the wolf, and think a similar study would be interesting on males of all ages.
Having just spent the past 2 weeks with one adult male and two teenage males (SIL and grandsons), I can tell you that even highly educated, well-bred men have their moments. I have resorted to separate bathrooms (by sex). There is a small "hut" in the backyard of our rental house. It's approximately 20 feet from the house with a bathroom right inside the door. Yet when the boys are out there playing poker, I have caught them repeatedly peeing in the yard next to the hut. Yes, it IS dark and there is shubbery, but really? I sometimes think males would never have left the cave if not pushed by their woman.
Having just spent the past 2 weeks with one adult male and two teenage males (SIL and grandsons), I can tell you that even highly educated, well-bred men have their moments. I have resorted to separate bathrooms (by sex). There is a small "hut" in the backyard of our rental house. It's approximately 20 feet from the house with a bathroom right inside the door. Yet when the boys are out there playing poker, I have caught them repeatedly peeing in the yard next to the hut. Yes, it IS dark and there is shubbery, but really? I sometimes think males would never have left the cave if not pushed by their woman.
26
RE: "“There is already a significant problem every single weekend with widespread, out-of-control peeing,” Mr. Johnson, who represents much of Manhattan’s West Side, said." - - What ever happened to the words "urine" and "urination"? Can't we have at least a bit of decorum as the city goes down the tubes (no pun intended)?
4
I guess the records-keepers will have to come up with a new term to describe those involved: "pee-petrators" jumps to mind. But, there will be many to choose from. I wonder if the edict is for just males, or will the cops also be after females? Interesting..........
5
I am always amazed at how cities all over the world solved this and other problems centuries ago and cities in the US act as if they are unforeseen.
Obtain a passport and visit Western Europe, City Planners. While you are there check into street trees, bike lanes, pedestrian malls, free wi-fi, and teacher's pay.
Obtain a passport and visit Western Europe, City Planners. While you are there check into street trees, bike lanes, pedestrian malls, free wi-fi, and teacher's pay.
64
Public urination is rampant throughout Europe, despite you might believe. Any place with a significant density of bars and pubs will have a lot of people (men) urinating in public. In fact, some of the most egregiously bad areas I've ever seen were in the UK and Germany.
5
The teacher's pay in Europe is a lot lower than the US. Our K-12 teachers are the highest paid in the world!
1
The public school teachers in my district in NY average about $130,000. That's salary. They also get generous benefits.
I wonder how women are able to hold it. They must have a totally different system.
28
They don't all hold it.., that's false. Then there are those that get UTI
1
We should compare fines given to women vs. men. I wonder what we'll find.
2
My wife, as the "Ozzies" say, has a "Japanese Bladder (very small capacity)," which on our then frequent road trips, she used to "baptize" many Interstate Highways, as well as rural two-lane roads. I also had my moments, when during nights of heavy drinking during my college years, I had to step into local alleys to "do my business," but only after ensuring that no one else was present.
Back in the 1980's, when my co-workers and I would go to White Sox games at the old Comiskey Park after work, we would often "water the neighborhood lawns" on the way to where we had parked our cars after the games. Public urination happens because there is a paucity of public facilities available on the street, thus people must improvise. This should not be a police matter, as long as people do what they must discretely, unlike the man relieving himself in broad daylight in the midst of Broadway traffic.
Back in the 1980's, when my co-workers and I would go to White Sox games at the old Comiskey Park after work, we would often "water the neighborhood lawns" on the way to where we had parked our cars after the games. Public urination happens because there is a paucity of public facilities available on the street, thus people must improvise. This should not be a police matter, as long as people do what they must discretely, unlike the man relieving himself in broad daylight in the midst of Broadway traffic.
3
This city is a restroom desert. There are almost no public bathrooms anywhere, and business owners tend to hate it and complain when non-paying people use their facilities. If you are not close to home and need to use the bathroom, it is almost always an adventure. Since (past a certain point) urination is involuntary, plenty of people will break this law out of sheer necessity. (Is it illegal to urinate in your pants in public? This may be the only solution. Then again, if some leaks out onto the ground, did you just break the law?)
161
Somehow, I am always able to find a restroom for my small daughter and my elderly mother. This is just nasty, lazy behavior, like spitting.
131
And yet few women urinate in public.
Interesting that.
FYI: There are no public bathrooms because homeless people will move into them, and prostitutes and drug addicts will use them for nefarious purposes.
Interesting that.
FYI: There are no public bathrooms because homeless people will move into them, and prostitutes and drug addicts will use them for nefarious purposes.
26
That's nonsense. I lived in New York all my life and not *once* was I forced to pee in public. Yes, there should be more public restrooms, but you're just making excuses for degenerates.
7
For folks that are questioning the lack of public restrooms, there have been attempts to get them built before. They've been shot down by handicapped advocates. See, a regular restroom might cost $30,000 to build, but the handicapped version (note: only for wheelchair access, all other handicapped people can use any restroom) would cost, in a 1994 estimate, $180,000 to build and install. I think that's just under two trillion in today's money (joking).
The other concerns are that the restrooms take up too much sidewalk space, that they're expensive to keep clean, and that drug users and the homeless would use them for shelter, all of which are accurate problems.
So this won't get done for awhile, but this is why Starbucks and McDonald's are all over the place, to provide restrooms on demand. And also, everyone has one in their house, and if they're out drinking there's one in the bar, so the lack of public restrooms isn't as pressing a problem as people seem to think.
Here's the 1994 NYT article on it for background and an indication that as this hasn't gotten solved in 21 years since, one shouldn't hold one's breath (unless walking down an alley behind a bar).
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/20/nyregion/public-toilets-in-new-york-ma...
The other concerns are that the restrooms take up too much sidewalk space, that they're expensive to keep clean, and that drug users and the homeless would use them for shelter, all of which are accurate problems.
So this won't get done for awhile, but this is why Starbucks and McDonald's are all over the place, to provide restrooms on demand. And also, everyone has one in their house, and if they're out drinking there's one in the bar, so the lack of public restrooms isn't as pressing a problem as people seem to think.
Here's the 1994 NYT article on it for background and an indication that as this hasn't gotten solved in 21 years since, one shouldn't hold one's breath (unless walking down an alley behind a bar).
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/20/nyregion/public-toilets-in-new-york-ma...
37
You are on the right track. Give places like McDonalds and Starbucks a tax incentive to allow the general public to use their johns, and they will go along. Grocery stores and big-box places would join in if the money was good enough.
2
If I didn't want to buy anything at a Starbucks or McDonald's but wanted to use the restroom, I would be willing to pay to use it. What's it worth?
2
What's unfair about the law is that it disproportionately targets men.
3
That's because it's men who dispropportionately target...whatever.
6
Only because men are the predominant offenders. The law is neutral--if a woman is crouched in an alley with her skirt hiked up, urinating on the sidewalk, she deserves a ticket as well. Most women prefer to go into a restroom to pee (where they will often proceed to pee all over the seat for some reason, but that's a different issue).
22
Evidence please?
2
Lets be real here. We're talking overwhelmingly not of 'people' but of men who engage in public urination. It is incredibly unpleasant to be a woman and not even have that option! And to be female and walking on streets where men are menacingly drunk whipping out their members to pee. Public restrooms will not take care of such primitive behavior, even tho clean ones would help women in need.
That said, no need for it to be a criminal offense.
That said, no need for it to be a criminal offense.
107
I've seen women do it on the sides of buildings or behind trees and not get caught.
2
Well, let's be fair. Women have the "option" of peeing illegally in the street just as much as men do. It is possible for most women to learn how to pee standing up, it's just not as easy as it is for men. But that's beside the point, because no one should be peeing in the street.
3
Well, recently my wife and I saw a woman in the 72nd Street (1,2,3) subway station urinating right in the middle of the platform. So I guess, for some, it is an option, and it doesn't have to be in the street, either.
Sure I think it needs to be against the law.
Sure I think it needs to be against the law.
2
As others have said, the lack of (clean, working) public restrooms is part of the problem, but please note that the vast majority of public urinators are men. Do women have better bladder control? Are they better planners? Do they drink less beer? No, no, and ... well, maybe. Most likely, men pee in public because it's easy and (as one man said) traditional - not because it's necessary. Whenever I see someone doing it, I comment on it loudly and disapprovingly. Maybe shame or annoyance) can help accomplish what the law can't. And it's cathartic, too!
78
I confess. I am a woman -- an old woman -- and I have peed on the streets on New York, usually between parked cars. Not often.
7
Well, zei gezunt; but if I happen to walk by when you're doing it, be prepared for some loud, snarky remarks! Tit for tat, as it were ...
3
Thank you for your public service. I completely agree with you.
" Are minor crimes the harbingers of neighborhood decline, or are they largely victimless acts that needlessly entangle residents..."
Victimless? As anyone whose nose has been assaulted.
The only group about which I'm concerned is homeless people, who may not have access to facilities. There should be more free, public lavatories.
Victimless? As anyone whose nose has been assaulted.
The only group about which I'm concerned is homeless people, who may not have access to facilities. There should be more free, public lavatories.
13
"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread."
So must it be with public urination. Let the new feudalism commence!
So must it be with public urination. Let the new feudalism commence!
6
Interesting ideas here, and I think that it'd be fine to reduce public urination to a violation, but we may as well double or quadruple the fine. People should only get caught doing this once, and then be more aware of using the bathroom before leaving the house, or carrying around a gallon jug for their own personal use.
It can't ever be an accepted thing of letting people pee wherever they want, because NYC will once more smell like Calcutta. The reek is instinctively associated with filth, disease, danger, and barbaric people. It doesn't matter if more black and Hispanic people are getting caught at it; what this means is more black and Hispanic people are doing it. The more affluent a community is, the less likely people are to use dumpsters as urinals. And to me, being poor is no excuse, they're still rich compared to the impoverished in most of the world, in that they have indoor sanitation facilities with running water. If you've got that available, there is no reason to go in the gutter instead.
So I'd say, sure, make it a violation, but maybe jack the fine up to $200 or even $300, in an attempt to persuade people to act civilized.
It can't ever be an accepted thing of letting people pee wherever they want, because NYC will once more smell like Calcutta. The reek is instinctively associated with filth, disease, danger, and barbaric people. It doesn't matter if more black and Hispanic people are getting caught at it; what this means is more black and Hispanic people are doing it. The more affluent a community is, the less likely people are to use dumpsters as urinals. And to me, being poor is no excuse, they're still rich compared to the impoverished in most of the world, in that they have indoor sanitation facilities with running water. If you've got that available, there is no reason to go in the gutter instead.
So I'd say, sure, make it a violation, but maybe jack the fine up to $200 or even $300, in an attempt to persuade people to act civilized.
70
Agree with most of what you said - but like litter - I've only known people to be fined. I've never heard of anyone taken to the station for urinating. Never.
2
"It doesn't matter if more black and Hispanic people are getting caught at it; what this means is more black and Hispanic people are doing it."
That is a logical fallacy.
It's just as likely that police are discriminating in who they ignore or let go with only a warning. Probably more likely, since a pattern of racial discrimination was already found in their stop-and-frisk policing.
That is a logical fallacy.
It's just as likely that police are discriminating in who they ignore or let go with only a warning. Probably more likely, since a pattern of racial discrimination was already found in their stop-and-frisk policing.
4
Dear Andre,
You're right, nobody gets taken to the station for urination alone, but currently arrests stay on someone's record, unlike this new idea of reducing the status of the arrest. So it could be found by prospective employers and such, and that's sort of harsh for the level of the crime is.
Dear SKV,
Sorry I was too brief about that, you're right, one thing doesn't imply the other. However, I do believe that while black and Hispanic people are probably targeted more by the cops for this ticket, this act is also more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods, like in the 'broken windows' theory. In more upscale places like the Upper East Side, this just doesn't happen as much.
On the other hand, they say there are a lot of arrests for this in hipster Williamsburg, and I've no doubt the majority of those arrests are of white people, so maybe discrimination doesn't play as big a role as one would think.
You're right, nobody gets taken to the station for urination alone, but currently arrests stay on someone's record, unlike this new idea of reducing the status of the arrest. So it could be found by prospective employers and such, and that's sort of harsh for the level of the crime is.
Dear SKV,
Sorry I was too brief about that, you're right, one thing doesn't imply the other. However, I do believe that while black and Hispanic people are probably targeted more by the cops for this ticket, this act is also more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods, like in the 'broken windows' theory. In more upscale places like the Upper East Side, this just doesn't happen as much.
On the other hand, they say there are a lot of arrests for this in hipster Williamsburg, and I've no doubt the majority of those arrests are of white people, so maybe discrimination doesn't play as big a role as one would think.
Once again, is the peons who get persecuted.
5
Maybe a peon should pee-in.
2
Once again, is the peons who think it is 'tradition' to urinate in public.
5
Let's construct some hidden-from-view urinals like they used to have in Paris.
17
"Everybody's crazy in New York."
I'll pee to that!
I'll pee to that!
2
The lack of public restrooms in New York City has always surprised me. Unlike such places as London, Paris and Amsterdam, NYC doesn't offer many places to urinate.
58
As the article stated, most of the offenders are men. As science has clearly proven, women have smaller bladders than men and therefore on average need to urinate more frequently. If you can't find a restroom, then maybe you aren't looking hard enough - get creative. Ask your mother, sisters, female cousins, friends, etc. for some helpful tips and maybe you will find that this disgusting habit is not such a necessity.
47
Public urination is gross. What is the upside of making this more permissible? I liked the law the way it was. Sheesh.
74
The problem isn't the tickets...the problem is that people are not offered a legal place to relieve themselves anywhere that is not a privately owned establishment. I don't think that private businesses should have to provide the non-paying public with public restroom facilities.
Until this problem is addressed, I don't think anyone should really have to have their life ruined because they couldn't hold it.
Until this problem is addressed, I don't think anyone should really have to have their life ruined because they couldn't hold it.
11
Very succinct & worth repeating: What is the upside of making this more permissible???
What genius thought we needed more public urination in NYC?
What genius thought we needed more public urination in NYC?
5
I guess that some women feel that if they have to suffer then men should suffer too. Wouldn't it be more humane to build public toilets for all?
New York is very backward in this respect. In California I find that ecologically sound urination spots are often designed into the landscaping. Even in New York City parks there does not seem to be any provision for this.
New York is very backward in this respect. In California I find that ecologically sound urination spots are often designed into the landscaping. Even in New York City parks there does not seem to be any provision for this.
2
Perhaps the offense should only be prosecuted when there are public toilets available, and any funds collected should go to the toilet fund. In New York City there is a major missing infrastructure problem.
Alternatively, demand could be managed by licensing requirements for any place wanting to sell Big-Gulp drinks of the kind Bloomberg tried to ban: license requirements could include a public free lavatory.
Alternatively, demand could be managed by licensing requirements for any place wanting to sell Big-Gulp drinks of the kind Bloomberg tried to ban: license requirements could include a public free lavatory.
112
They do not have to real expensive public toilets but rather banks of urinals and a few bidets for the ladies for their equal treatment rights, Better yet I do not think any body would object male and female separation for privacy and decency. All these can be paid and maintained by bar owners, who make more the enough profits. As for as the parks it is just not the criminal element that like a nice walk after hours in a park. What matters is the life style of the people and some common sense. This puritan country needs to wake up.
2
Well, there are no public restrooms which is part of the problem. The other part is the drinkers who do not plan on that. But no one wants the stench of urine greeting them in the streets, so the police need to enforce that law. There is also a difference in a one time emergency need for relief and the habitual disrespect for sanitation in some neighborhoods.
42
This is good news for me! When I go to NY to visit my son he is always upset when I have to pee in the street because there are no public restrooms. I hope this is true in the subways too because it appears all the bathrooms there are just optical illusions. Usually I can find a place toward the end of the platform though.
Shows my son that I was right all along!
Shows my son that I was right all along!
8
geez... we expect even a four year old to be able to hold it! and what about women? you think it's any easier or more sanitary or comfortable for them, who do not have the physical option (disgusting and uncivil thought it is) to pee in public? what next? oh, well, i need to have a bowel movement, i'll just move over to this corner? we berate and deride and harass the homeless for this behavior and they have even fewer options. every hotel has public restrooms, so do most Barnes and Nobles. get yourself a copy of "Where to Go in New York" before you come for your next visit.
17
No one "has to" pee in the street, they simply refuse to plan ahead or buy a pack of gum somewhere so they can use the restroom. Again, this is just nasty, lazy behavior.
98
The chewing gum then probably gets littered onto the sidewalk, along with its wrapper.
2