The New York Times has spent too much time on this.
19
This is the book that Harper Lee wanted published in the '60s. This is the Atticus she wanted the world to know. Go Set a Watchman was not a first draft. It was her submission. It came from her heart. To Kill a Mockingbird is what the editors wanted her to write.
46
Have we all forgotten that Strom Thurmond had a black daughter by a black woman, a fact he kept hidden for more than 70 years. And I don't understand why this meant nothing to Mr. Crespino. I'd venture to say Thurmond was a little more complex than the fictional Finch (real life is always that way) or your garden variety racist southerner. Safe to say Mr. Crespino made a really bad choice of of selecting Thurmond as a comparison figure.
5
The Atticus found in Mockingbird is utterly unrealistic.
9
Well, I’ve wanted to post this somewhere, this is as good a place as any. To those who question HOW the beloved Atticus Finch could have turned out to be a racist, I offer a simple answer: because HE’S NOT REAL!! HARPER LEE MADE HIM UP! She could have determined he become a flying wizard or any other creature or object if she wanted to!
I’m trying to look on this whole discussion as a tribute to the power of elegant fiction and masterful writing. People are so invested in this made-up literary character that they’re acting as if he’s a real person who they later found out had horrible secrets. Ask how similar Finch is/ was to Ms. Lee’s real-life father. Ask how the context of the time these books were written influenced their content, their popularity, and indeed the publishing schedules or lack thereof. How it all explains Ms. Lee’s reluctance to ever speak on the record about her writing. There are many real things to question and debate.
This opinion piece is typical: “The stoic, civic-minded Atticus Finch gave Americans hope.” You mean, the stoic, civic-minded characteristics that Harper Lee bestowed upon her fictional character gave people hope? If fiction can work so completely to influence the public so profoundly, my God - as quickly as possible, will somebody please write/ bring to life a wonderful, unifying leader to take us past our current mess of hopelessly entrenched division and mutual hatred?
I’m trying to look on this whole discussion as a tribute to the power of elegant fiction and masterful writing. People are so invested in this made-up literary character that they’re acting as if he’s a real person who they later found out had horrible secrets. Ask how similar Finch is/ was to Ms. Lee’s real-life father. Ask how the context of the time these books were written influenced their content, their popularity, and indeed the publishing schedules or lack thereof. How it all explains Ms. Lee’s reluctance to ever speak on the record about her writing. There are many real things to question and debate.
This opinion piece is typical: “The stoic, civic-minded Atticus Finch gave Americans hope.” You mean, the stoic, civic-minded characteristics that Harper Lee bestowed upon her fictional character gave people hope? If fiction can work so completely to influence the public so profoundly, my God - as quickly as possible, will somebody please write/ bring to life a wonderful, unifying leader to take us past our current mess of hopelessly entrenched division and mutual hatred?
30
Posted on July 16, 2015 by 43jcu
Atticus Redux
How I loved reading Mockingbird my sophomore year in college! It was certainly not on any assigned reading list, but we all read it and talked about it in the dorm.
Shortly thereafter, Atticus came to look and sound just like Gregory Peck and remains so in my mind.
Lee’s new/old book is just out. In it our beloved Atticus says to his now adult daughter, “Honey, you do not seem to understand that the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.” That is a very hard truth to swallow.
In Mockingbird, we saw Atticus through a child’s eyes. In Watchman, through an adult’s.
Many of our classic tales contain a lot of truth and leave us with a lot of grownup questions. Asking these questions is daring to look at things in new ways, and questioning things we would not have dared to when we were still in our childhood.
We do not dishonor our history, our myths, when we do this. Having the privilege of becoming grownups, we are, I think, charged to do so.
Atticus Redux
How I loved reading Mockingbird my sophomore year in college! It was certainly not on any assigned reading list, but we all read it and talked about it in the dorm.
Shortly thereafter, Atticus came to look and sound just like Gregory Peck and remains so in my mind.
Lee’s new/old book is just out. In it our beloved Atticus says to his now adult daughter, “Honey, you do not seem to understand that the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.” That is a very hard truth to swallow.
In Mockingbird, we saw Atticus through a child’s eyes. In Watchman, through an adult’s.
Many of our classic tales contain a lot of truth and leave us with a lot of grownup questions. Asking these questions is daring to look at things in new ways, and questioning things we would not have dared to when we were still in our childhood.
We do not dishonor our history, our myths, when we do this. Having the privilege of becoming grownups, we are, I think, charged to do so.
12
We're looking at TWO DIFFERENT works here, one essentially a first draft, the second a product that evolved out of the first. Had Harper Lee felt "Watchman" should have been in print, that would have happened. Of course, it is brought out now when she is in her dotage. To what end other than the almighty dollar?
"How is it possible that the fair-minded Atticus Finch...could also be the embittered racist depicted" in "Go Set a Watchman"?
How is it possible that the NY Times could accept an article based on such a weakly-reasoned premise? They are not the same persons. They are creations of the artist, and they are no more the same person than humans and chimps are the same for having evolved from common ancestors.
"How is it possible that the fair-minded Atticus Finch...could also be the embittered racist depicted" in "Go Set a Watchman"?
How is it possible that the NY Times could accept an article based on such a weakly-reasoned premise? They are not the same persons. They are creations of the artist, and they are no more the same person than humans and chimps are the same for having evolved from common ancestors.
7
European right wing politics and discourse, ie the extreme wing of the Tories in Britain, and even France's Front Nationale , at best and most of the time, amount to the those of the right of center or moderate Republican pronouncements. Most of the discourse one hears in the US by American right wing politicians is seldom heard in Europe because such rhetoric here is considered infantile, or outright ridiculous. A European politician framing issues a la Donald Trump or Sara Palin would be scuffed at by the public at large, even by the right itself.
3
All of these attempts to understand and explain the evolution of Atticus Finch seem to ignore the fact that he is not just a fictional character, but two fictional characters. Watchman was not written as a sequel to Mockingbird; it is a different story written by an author who re-imagined her characters at the urging of her publisher. If Harper Lee had changed the names of the characters when she wrote Mockingbird (or when she decided to publish Watchman), people would be evaluating Watchman entirely on its own merits rather than being distracted by the supposed evolution of Atticus Finch from righteous crusader to racist segregationist.
45
Please remember that this is a fictitious character. Since the older Atticus preceded the younger in the author's mind, there is no question of (de-)evolution. The discrepancy between the two is simply an accident of fate. Had the publisher accepted "Watchman", perhaps there wouldn't have been a virtuous Atticus, role model to his kids and the world.
21
Atticus Finch is a fictional character. He is not, and never has been real. He is a one demensionial, super wonderful person in Mockingbird. That he is different in Watchman is irrelevent. There is no insight. There is no deeper meaning. There are no lessons to be learned. You might as well analyze Mike Hammer or Hannibal Lector.
3
Frankly, I never thought much of Atticus as an attorney. His client is obviously not guilty and yet he is convicted and lynched. I would hope for a better defense by my attorney if I were in the same situation. Atticus used the case of his client to show off the ugliness of his society but this in no way was a help to his client who existed in that society and that time.
A more personal and less broad defense might have gotten his client off on the facts. This would mean not pushing the jury's racism in the individual jury members faces.
A more personal and less broad defense might have gotten his client off on the facts. This would mean not pushing the jury's racism in the individual jury members faces.
3
The sad truth is that when it comes to Southern history as portrayed in works of art, we don't want nuanced truth, we want fairy tales. "Mockingbird" delivered a credible fairy tale as both a book, which received a Pulitzer prize, and as a movie, in which Gregory Peck's kindly portrayal of Atticus Finch was lauded by many who saw it. "Mockingbird" still sells more than a million copies a year.
The problem here is that we all want to be entertained by works of fiction, not read nuanced accounts. If the review of "Go Set a Watchman" found in this Sunday's NY Times Book Review section by Randall Kennedy is accurate (I have not read "Watchman") the new book does portray Atticus Finch as a racist, and is no masterpiece, as "Mockingbird" was widely considered to be.
We can attempt to rescue Ms. Lee's literary reputation, and tell ourselves that "Watchman" is good medicine for us, but the truth is that it was a mistake to publish this new/old effort. It would have been better not to do so. I chalk this set of mistakes on Ms. Lee's lawyer, Ms. Carter, who decided to make money from Ms. Lee's legacy after Ms. Lee's sister, a lawyer and her protector, died late last year. Ms. Lee is infirm enough in her advanced years now that convincing her was not too difficult, if indeed, this is what even happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/books/review/harper-lees-go-set-a-watc...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
7
Can we manage to remember that we are talking about two novels and that Atticus ain't real? First, note that Watchman predates Mockingbird. In order to create the fictional white savior that Atticus was, he had to be projected back to the author's childhood and covered with a heavy glaze of sentiment and infantine trust. So why did this happen? I expect that the editor who "helped so much" in the two year process of creating Mockingbird twisted the "sophisticated" message of Watchman into the readily absorbable myth. And of course it was a huge success.
18
People often become more conservative as they age, and it's possible both Atticus and Jean Louise changed over time. I'm rather sorry Ms. Lee's editor convinced her to rub down Atticus's rough edges. It made him more palatable and produced a mega-seller, but Watchman may be the more perceptive, if less polished, work.
6
If I understand it right, the less worthy representation of Atticus was written before the eventual "Mockingbird" If i am not right in this stop reading this comment. My idea is that rather than seeing the change as a kind of moral backing down, we can see it as the reverse, at least as Harper Lee envisioned it. She changed the character from a typical prejudiced Southerner to a
a more humane individual.
If this interpretation doesn't fly and we take "Watchman" to be a shocking reversal of the principled character of "Mockingbird", we may look for another explanation of the supposed change.
The Atticus we all love is a lawyer with integrity as regards his profession. He believes in the legal rights promulgated in the Constitution and, as a man of professional integrity, he does his best to defend his client. However, this professional stance need not dovetail into personal preferences, hence the moral failings
seen in "Watchman".
a more humane individual.
If this interpretation doesn't fly and we take "Watchman" to be a shocking reversal of the principled character of "Mockingbird", we may look for another explanation of the supposed change.
The Atticus we all love is a lawyer with integrity as regards his profession. He believes in the legal rights promulgated in the Constitution and, as a man of professional integrity, he does his best to defend his client. However, this professional stance need not dovetail into personal preferences, hence the moral failings
seen in "Watchman".
5
I can identify with the Atticus character through my father. He was a communist during the 1930's and 1940's and remained very liberal all his life. He lived through the Great Depression and saw how rich people treated and thought about the poor.
But during the 1950's and 1960's he was opposed to integration. He didn't want to 'live with them'. I was a teenager and we sat around the kitchen table arguing about civil rights for years. I supported civil rights and still do. He never changed his mind.
And so for Atticus, who is after all a fictional character, isn't he the model for the complexity of the human mind? He stood for fairness and ignored race when it came to justice, which is blind. But integration was one step too far for him. During the days of the 1950's and 1960's, there must have been many so called southern moderates who were not ready for integration. I don't excuse them, but only seek to understand them.
My father passed away some time ago. I still love him and honor his memory. I wish he could have come to a liberal point of view on integration.
But during the 1950's and 1960's he was opposed to integration. He didn't want to 'live with them'. I was a teenager and we sat around the kitchen table arguing about civil rights for years. I supported civil rights and still do. He never changed his mind.
And so for Atticus, who is after all a fictional character, isn't he the model for the complexity of the human mind? He stood for fairness and ignored race when it came to justice, which is blind. But integration was one step too far for him. During the days of the 1950's and 1960's, there must have been many so called southern moderates who were not ready for integration. I don't excuse them, but only seek to understand them.
My father passed away some time ago. I still love him and honor his memory. I wish he could have come to a liberal point of view on integration.
38
The only change in Strom Thurmond from New Dealer to racist hate-monger was the choice of what political principles he used to advance his career. It was always about himself never about deeply-felt principles. No one who truly cares for people goes from being in favor of the equality of people to being a white-supremacist. There are many good people in this world who use their lives to stand for justice, but not Thurmond, of whom it might be accurately said "Vanity is all."
16
Bravo, Joe Crespino, a great piece. Beyond the fate of Atticus Finch, I think the publication of Watchman will greatly enhance the reputation of Harper Lee: not as a writer, but as a Southern intellectual who observed the politics of her time with skill and acuity.
16
Linking Jeffersonian Democracy with modern day racism is a distortion. Jefferson envisioned a nation of individuals possessed of farms, shops, or trades. He believed that strong and independent individuals would form the backbone of a free, independent, and prosperous nation. Of course, slavery was a reality in the 18th century world in which he lived. Nonetheless, he penned the words that have stirred the hearts of men and women ever since: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal ..."
2
Thomas Jefferson kept his own Black children in slavery until his death. His own children !!! Although a great man, he was also an amazing hypocrite in declaring all men are created equal.
12
During the 1960s, I met several white southerners who had migrated north to avoid the aggressive all-encompassing racism, which, at the very least, would have made them pariahs if they had remained in their home states. Some people vote with their feet.
5
Well, since then probably many million northerners have moved south. Not much difference between northerners and southerners, except northerners seem to think that they know everything, and every sentance starts with "Well, the way we do it in New York is . . . . "
As the great Lewis Grizzard once said about complaining northerners, "Delta is ready when you are."
As the great Lewis Grizzard once said about complaining northerners, "Delta is ready when you are."
5
The more things change, the more...Given the debates of the past few weeks over the Confederate flag, aren't we seeing aspects of what Professor Crespino describes playing out again before our eyes? A white child of the South, I have no trouble saying my father was racist. Yet one of my last memories of being with him—he died in his late 50s, having worked himself to death in a local cotton mill and, like many men of his generation, smoking a couple of packs of cigarettes a day—is hauling trash, including old clothes, to a trash pile several miles further out of our small town than we lived. When we arrived, he carefully matched the pairs of shoes and folded the clothes, setting them aside from the things of no value. Driving up the dirt road as we left, passing the home of an African American family (the house was unpainted at had, at best, newspaper for insulation, much like the one he'd lived in during the Depression), he commented that folks from that house would soon go down to check to see what had been left and be sure it was put to good use. Horrible acts of public and private violence, and small acts of great kindness. That is what the South was all about then—and still is in many ways. It sounds like Watchman is a truer portrayal of the complexity of Southern life in that period—one where most whites so feared outside intervention and were so very committed to Christian charity as long as it did not call the status quo into question.
15
This issue is as complex as the human spirit. My father used the 'n word' liberally while I was growing up in the 60s (in Upstate NY, BTW), but he also often said that blacks should have the same opportunities as whites. He was born in 1917, certainly a product of his generation. Yet I realized even then that he and my mother were progressives when it came to civil rights/racial issues. They both worked at a hospital with people of color during their formative years - their 20s - which I think enabled them to see that their black co-workers were just trying to make a living and raise their families, same as they were. Dad continued to use the 'n word' up through the 70s, but didn't defend or continue that practice after he became aware of how hurtful the term was to people of color.
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice,” said Martin Luther King, Jr. I don't know whether or not that's true, but believing it MIGHT be true gives me hope.
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice,” said Martin Luther King, Jr. I don't know whether or not that's true, but believing it MIGHT be true gives me hope.
17
A little history helps. Southern populism, like that of Storm Thurmond, turn of century Georgia Governor Tom Watson, who invented the Democratic Party's. Southern White Primary and Alabama's George Wallace, was always directed at whites, often called, behind their backs, "poor white trash".
For the Dixiecrats, keeping the blacks from the ballot was a sine qua non, as it is today, for their descendants, the southern Republicans. Today's Republican red state white primary is assured by gerrymandering, recently dealt a blow by the Supremes, and other means of voter suppression, meant to keep blacks and Hispanics from voting in the general.
So regardless of what you think of Watchman, as Professor Crispino says, parts of the South, in particular, are still Strom Thumond's America. Worse by far, there are places - the Conservative Citizens Councils and other hate groups among them, which are still Theodore Bilbo's America. Bilbo, as Mississippi Governor and Senator, was not a populist but a plantation overseer, who looked kindly at lynching. He got the white vote by selling poor whites on the notion they were better than blacks.
The first answer to the latest incarnations of the Lost Cause is voting rights, best pursued, one thinks. by attacking gerrymandering as the first priority.
For the Dixiecrats, keeping the blacks from the ballot was a sine qua non, as it is today, for their descendants, the southern Republicans. Today's Republican red state white primary is assured by gerrymandering, recently dealt a blow by the Supremes, and other means of voter suppression, meant to keep blacks and Hispanics from voting in the general.
So regardless of what you think of Watchman, as Professor Crispino says, parts of the South, in particular, are still Strom Thumond's America. Worse by far, there are places - the Conservative Citizens Councils and other hate groups among them, which are still Theodore Bilbo's America. Bilbo, as Mississippi Governor and Senator, was not a populist but a plantation overseer, who looked kindly at lynching. He got the white vote by selling poor whites on the notion they were better than blacks.
The first answer to the latest incarnations of the Lost Cause is voting rights, best pursued, one thinks. by attacking gerrymandering as the first priority.
45
TLC announces 'The Lives of Attichus Finch"!
As the psychoanalysis of a purely literary creation drones on endlessly in the media we see how consumed by our reality show cultural. zeitgeis.
Atticus Finch steps out of the authors imagination and LIVES among us!
He's doing literary analysis on Fox News along with his gig on TLC!
Next up Hamlet? Where would he have stood on Brown vs Board of Education?
What absolute inanity! Boo Hoo Hoo - i want my earlier Atticus.
I want my all literary characters to leave the imaginary context of their narratives and be psychoanalyzed! OH where's my Ritalin gone off to now?
As the psychoanalysis of a purely literary creation drones on endlessly in the media we see how consumed by our reality show cultural. zeitgeis.
Atticus Finch steps out of the authors imagination and LIVES among us!
He's doing literary analysis on Fox News along with his gig on TLC!
Next up Hamlet? Where would he have stood on Brown vs Board of Education?
What absolute inanity! Boo Hoo Hoo - i want my earlier Atticus.
I want my all literary characters to leave the imaginary context of their narratives and be psychoanalyzed! OH where's my Ritalin gone off to now?
3
A culture almost always finds in its best fiction an approach to understanding the issues of the time in which it was written, not to mention the time in which it is read. That's one of literature's functions. It's why we return again and again to Hamlet and Huck and Jane Austen's heroines and, yes, Scout and Atticus. Freud used Oedipus in his writings. So, no, I don't agree with the premise of your post. I don't think it's inane at all.
4
Here is a thought: if Atticus Finch was an un-reconstucted racist who put himself in harm's way...personally as well as professionally...to defend a poor black man without resources, then in an ironic way, that makes him all the more heroic than the mythical non-racist Atticus we all believed in.
Wonder what Gregory Peck would say about the later Atticus.
Wonder what Gregory Peck would say about the later Atticus.
4
*ahem*
Go Set a Watchman IS the first book. Not even a book - it's a rough draft. So it's no wonder that the second book, To Kill a Mockingbird, is more sophisticated.
Go Set a Watchman IS the first book. Not even a book - it's a rough draft. So it's no wonder that the second book, To Kill a Mockingbird, is more sophisticated.
2
I think you have it backward. Read the first graph again.
I was born and raised long ago in western NY, and was stationed in the holy rolling, backward, racist, segregated southern states of Georgia, Florida, and Alabama as a young Air Force officer in the late 50s and early 60s. I also lived in Alabama in the unsegregated 70s, and visited the south frequently in my post Air Force career. The attitudes of southern whites have not changed over that span of 50 years. The south remains an albatross around the neck of decent educated Americans.
17
Jimbo. Rather prejudiced viewpoint, don't you think?
1
Atticus tells his daughter, “Honey, you do not seem to understand that the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.” This is a piece of hypocrisy that Jeanne Louise lets go by. Why were black people in the South still in their childhood as a people? It was because white people denied them the chance to be educated, to be property owners, to be business people and professional people. Black people could be servants or sharecroppers, but not much else. Of course, these days, most Americans are in their childhood as people. Even so, whites still think they are superior and want to remain so.
9
Maybe in the rural south, and that is distinctly different, but in Atlanta there were black owned companies, entertainment and insurance firms, and quite a wealthy and educated black population. Just like there is today-- many many black millionaires. And while its true that they could not eat in certain establishments until the 80s, I've found that most people, unless they lived in the south 30 or 40 years, have no clue what they are talking about. There is no ONE way to describe it.
1
Could we be conflating Atticus Finch with Gregory Peck, the actor who portrayed him in the movie?
A real life Atticus might have evolved from earlier prejudices into a more well rounded human being, but as portrayed by Peck he was born a fully developed saint.
I'm hoping for more evolution among all our American brethren and sistern.
A real life Atticus might have evolved from earlier prejudices into a more well rounded human being, but as portrayed by Peck he was born a fully developed saint.
I'm hoping for more evolution among all our American brethren and sistern.
2
As a South Carolinian who moved to NYC in 1968 partly because of a disgust with Strom Thurmond, I'm looking forward to reading "Watchman," since I do understand how the Atticus Finch of "Mockingbird" could also have racist tendencies. Fortunately, my parents weren't particularly prejudiced--my mother was one of the few church members who greeted some black visitors to our Baptist congregation in 1961, and the "n-word" was as forbidden as the "f-word." But we had friends and even relatives who--although good citizens and moral voters--did consider the black race less intelligent. (And it was "Amos & Andy" that revealed to me that there were black doctors and lawyers--okay, I'll admit that Calhoun was my favorite--though we whites never saw them in real life.) My mother told me once about listening to my uncle tell my grandmother that she had to start voting Republican, because the Democrats were pushing for civil rights. And my uncle was a good guy--maybe not an Atticus, but a supporter of many charities and busy in his church.
We're still a society that has a race problem--but anyone under the age of 50 has no idea how far we've come, and how minds have changed. (My mother voted for Obama--twice.)
We're still a society that has a race problem--but anyone under the age of 50 has no idea how far we've come, and how minds have changed. (My mother voted for Obama--twice.)
10
Some of the 'history' presented here is misleading. In 1936, after Jesse Owens victories at the Olympics he was honored with a ticker tape parade in New York and a subsequent banquet at the Waldorf-Astoria. Except he could not have stayed in a room at that hotel and in fact had to ride a freight elevator to get to the banquet. FDR didn't invite him to the White House or even send him a telegram of congratulations. Owens campaigned for Alf Landon, the Republican candidate, in the 1936 election.
Growing up in the 1950's, the black faces that I saw on TV were Rochester, Jack Benny's chauffeur, and Amos 'n Andy. And I didn't grow up in the south - this is what we were watching nationwide. The bulk of the population across the country - not just the south - still had a largely stereotyped view of African-Americans even at that time.
Eisenhower was enormously popular. The ONLY electoral votes that Stevenson got in either election were from the deep south. Eisenhower also vigorously enforced the Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board, and was the first president since U.S. Grant to get any kind of civil rights legislation passed. The change from democrat to republican started with LBJ's passage of the Civil Rights act of 1964. I'm not sure on what basis you describe that 'drift' as starting in the mid-50's, but I don't see any statistical support for that.
Growing up in the 1950's, the black faces that I saw on TV were Rochester, Jack Benny's chauffeur, and Amos 'n Andy. And I didn't grow up in the south - this is what we were watching nationwide. The bulk of the population across the country - not just the south - still had a largely stereotyped view of African-Americans even at that time.
Eisenhower was enormously popular. The ONLY electoral votes that Stevenson got in either election were from the deep south. Eisenhower also vigorously enforced the Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board, and was the first president since U.S. Grant to get any kind of civil rights legislation passed. The change from democrat to republican started with LBJ's passage of the Civil Rights act of 1964. I'm not sure on what basis you describe that 'drift' as starting in the mid-50's, but I don't see any statistical support for that.
33
You're probably right, it all happened literally on one day in 1964, there was nothing that preceded it. That's a simple-minded view of history if I've ever heard one.
As for statistical support, how about the formation of the Dixiecrat Party for the 1948 presidential election? It was largely created in response by southern conservatives to Harry Truman's civil rights initiatives.
As for statistical support, how about the formation of the Dixiecrat Party for the 1948 presidential election? It was largely created in response by southern conservatives to Harry Truman's civil rights initiatives.
3
The Dixiecrat party was formed in 1948 in response to Truman's Commission on Civil Rights and civil rights efforts like those to integrate the military that were supported by northern Democrats and centrist Republicans alike. The movement of southern whites away from the Democratic Party begins there and proceeds through the Goldwater-Thurman rapprochement and on to Nixon's Southern Strategy, Reagan's post-convention speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi and Lee Atwater's Willie Horton ads. While much of what you say about generalized racism in the country is true enough it certainly doesn't contradict anything Crespino says about the evolution of white southern conservatism.
2
Atticus's seeming "change" into what some may regard as bigotry is easy to understand. In the Deep South have always existed a minority of fair-minded whites, even though their attitudes remained paternalistic--and thus deficient. I'm a Mississippi Caucasian whose pastor father in a small town openly defended in court, along with a propped-up, inebriated, alcoholic, court-appointed "defense" lawyer from distant Meridian, a black man in 1941 who was accused of killing a white planter who invaded the black's home. None of the town's qualified white lawyers had the courage to take the case. Despite his eloquence, Daddy, of course, lost, arguing before the all-white jury. But the convict was simply sentenced to Parchman for life, rather than executed in the state's portable electric chair.
Yet after 1954, with Brown vs. Board of Education's outlawing public school segregation, even many "liberal" southern whites became defensive, adopting a "go slow" attitude especially in the face of widespread, northern sanctimony that tried to make the Deep South a scapegoat for the racism prevalent throughout the U.S.A.
Daddy did assail (mainly to his close friends and family) the White Citizens' Councils that sprang up in the 50s. And he remained a life-long New Deal-style Democrat. Novelist William Faulkner reflected some of the same conflicting attitudes.
Yet after 1954, with Brown vs. Board of Education's outlawing public school segregation, even many "liberal" southern whites became defensive, adopting a "go slow" attitude especially in the face of widespread, northern sanctimony that tried to make the Deep South a scapegoat for the racism prevalent throughout the U.S.A.
Daddy did assail (mainly to his close friends and family) the White Citizens' Councils that sprang up in the 50s. And he remained a life-long New Deal-style Democrat. Novelist William Faulkner reflected some of the same conflicting attitudes.
23
"Thurmond was a committed New Deal Democrat in the 1930s as a state legislator. As governor in the late 1940s, he advocated for the repeal of the poll tax and called in the F.B.I. to investigate a lynching in his state."
I'm a professional historian and I didn't know that; somebody's not doing their job--maybe me.
I was aware of George Wallace's similar transformation after losing an election to a more dedicated racist, but you can't quote his reaction in a family newspaper.
I'm a professional historian and I didn't know that; somebody's not doing their job--maybe me.
I was aware of George Wallace's similar transformation after losing an election to a more dedicated racist, but you can't quote his reaction in a family newspaper.
Atticus Finch is perhaps an even greater hero for being able to overcome his prejudices (whatever they might be- if any) as a young man to be a good and loving father, a good and loving employer, and good and sensitive neighbor and a heroic attorney.
Atticus Finch, as aged, is in perfect harmony with the younger Atticus Finch.
It is the situational context the reader may find confusing. Perhaps it is easier to understand the situational context if one has lived through it.
What is the situational context? What has been going on in his mind all those years?
Atticus Finch finds himself in a whirlwind he does not fully understand and with a confused moral compass. This novel will require a capable reader and is well worth the effort.
Given the context of time and place, his age and experiences, I find Atticus Finch continuing to seek a better world, as he ages, even if he does not understand fully the one in which he lives.
Context, context, context
Atticus Finch remains the moral touch stone he has always been – a shining star in the constellation of good and great men and I revere him still.
Atticus Finch, as aged, is in perfect harmony with the younger Atticus Finch.
It is the situational context the reader may find confusing. Perhaps it is easier to understand the situational context if one has lived through it.
What is the situational context? What has been going on in his mind all those years?
Atticus Finch finds himself in a whirlwind he does not fully understand and with a confused moral compass. This novel will require a capable reader and is well worth the effort.
Given the context of time and place, his age and experiences, I find Atticus Finch continuing to seek a better world, as he ages, even if he does not understand fully the one in which he lives.
Context, context, context
Atticus Finch remains the moral touch stone he has always been – a shining star in the constellation of good and great men and I revere him still.
5
Thurmond was a real man who changed his views (or at least his public positions) when his electorate changed in response to the Voting Rights Act.
Atticus Finch is a fictional character. Changes in his character reflect a writer's changing artistic conception and an editor's ideas of the market, not how an actual human being might change. It is implausible that an open-minded idealist of the 1930's evolved into a bigot in the 1950's
Atticus Finch is a fictional character. Changes in his character reflect a writer's changing artistic conception and an editor's ideas of the market, not how an actual human being might change. It is implausible that an open-minded idealist of the 1930's evolved into a bigot in the 1950's
6
I find the change entirely convincing- for better or worse how many of us get less open minded as we get older (sadly)
6
Read the book and do not rely on the movie. Atticus is very much a product of his times. He does the "right" thing not because he's open minded or a harbinger of times to come, he does the right thing because he believes there was no crime. As a lawyer, he is sworn to fight for justice. That was not a fight against racism or any other ideology and to read more into it, is wishful thinking.
What is remarkable about MOCKINGBIRD, is that it was written at all.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
What is remarkable about MOCKINGBIRD, is that it was written at all.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
8
Thurmond was a politician most of his life. He had no 'views'. He calculated a path to election and reelection. ALL other considerations were subordinate. The only issue then as now is the constituency that supports reactionary, or liberal views. Donald Trump and his racist 'views' come to mind.
Perhaps Atticus Finch should be credited for his legal defense when he had at least latent racist views underneath; he was trying to do the right thing.
3
The funny thing is that since the 50s -- and especially the Noughts--- the vast majority of the entire population has effectively been disenfranchised.
Social solidarity needs to trump identity politics.
Social solidarity needs to trump identity politics.
4
The book comes off as a justification for racism. Mockingbird was just a novel.
5
Atticus tells his daughter, “Honey, you do not seem to understand that the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.”
The magazine asked whether the white Southerners could take measures to maintain political control over predominantly black communities: “The sobering answer is Yes — the white community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race.”
What howlers. Who has a more foolish, immature uneducated, “in their childhood as a people” population than the United States? Most American whites should look in the mirror when they decry our state of government (especially the South!). Our political discourse is worthy of clueless adolescents. The fact that the GOP has such power is proof; check out the Republican buffoons running for president and you should be evidence enough that our ship of state is a “Ship of Fools.”
Although I have not read her book yet, I hope Ms. Lee is using irony with these passages.
The magazine asked whether the white Southerners could take measures to maintain political control over predominantly black communities: “The sobering answer is Yes — the white community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race.”
What howlers. Who has a more foolish, immature uneducated, “in their childhood as a people” population than the United States? Most American whites should look in the mirror when they decry our state of government (especially the South!). Our political discourse is worthy of clueless adolescents. The fact that the GOP has such power is proof; check out the Republican buffoons running for president and you should be evidence enough that our ship of state is a “Ship of Fools.”
Although I have not read her book yet, I hope Ms. Lee is using irony with these passages.
11
I just wish that people would show as much concern about the real life racists in this world as they do about a single fictional one.
55
In his first campaign for governor of Alabama(1958), George C. Wallace displayed a slightly less regressive profile than his opponent, and was soundly defeated. He said thereafter, "I will never be out-n#####ed again." And he wasn't.
In many circles in this country, you cannot go wrong using racism for political advantage. Thurmond and the other canny prophets of the Southern Strategy knew this well, and Nixon and Reagan brought it to full flower. It would seem that Ms. Lee saw this as well as did the politicians.
(I shall now await the obligatory (for some) screed about how minority politicians can be racist as well. But they don't seem to be as successful with it. Yawn.)
In many circles in this country, you cannot go wrong using racism for political advantage. Thurmond and the other canny prophets of the Southern Strategy knew this well, and Nixon and Reagan brought it to full flower. It would seem that Ms. Lee saw this as well as did the politicians.
(I shall now await the obligatory (for some) screed about how minority politicians can be racist as well. But they don't seem to be as successful with it. Yawn.)
13
Analysis of "Watchman" in an essay like this is very helpful for people to understand the political scene as we are experiencing it today. The Jim Crow Southern Democratic Party was broken in 1948 by Senator Thurmond and its transition took twenty years to be completed. There was no other place to go but to the Republican Party in a two party system. Now, the question is, "What does the Republican Party do to marginalize them after benefiting regionally in the South?" And where do they go? The Southern racists and bigots have corrupted the party of Lincoln, the party of inclusion, the party of the "Big Tent". The social policies of the Dixiecrats, whether it be discrimination in marriage equality or civil rights have cowered Republican leaders from espousing social justice. This renders them losers in national elections. And the prize is the White House.
10
The thing about this version of the Republican party is that it's not just Black, female, and Latino minorities get the short end of the dream; everybody's getting it, except the Kochs and their ilk.
2
PART 1
The white southerner (of a certain age, at least) is not some racist redneck type. However, this does not mean that we are without our seeming contradictions. I have known of men that use the n-word quite freely...yet will pull over the change the tire of a black person in need.
As a history teacher, I tell my young charges that when it comes to race relations, "It's Complicated." In the antebellum South, we have evil, cruel masters...and slaves that were willing to kill children to be free. At the same time, we have kind masters...and slaves that, despite their status, had a sincere devotion and loyalty to those masters. It IS complicated.
The "new" Atticus Finch simply points out the truth that while many white southerners would absolutely stand up for decency and the protection of their African American neighbors, they also stand up for the status quo of, basically, whites in charge.
I would argue that this is not "racist" in the hard sense. Why? Because most whites would utterly deny that they hate blacks. Like I said, they would absolutely go to bat for them if they discerned someone was in need. But the CULTURAL divide is too great for many. The legitimate demands for equality seem abrasive, hasty, pushy, ill-considered. The southern heart seems to like change to come slowly, naturally (if that is possible). Booker T. Washington, realizing this, urged blacks on a different path than W.E.B. Dubois.
The white southerner (of a certain age, at least) is not some racist redneck type. However, this does not mean that we are without our seeming contradictions. I have known of men that use the n-word quite freely...yet will pull over the change the tire of a black person in need.
As a history teacher, I tell my young charges that when it comes to race relations, "It's Complicated." In the antebellum South, we have evil, cruel masters...and slaves that were willing to kill children to be free. At the same time, we have kind masters...and slaves that, despite their status, had a sincere devotion and loyalty to those masters. It IS complicated.
The "new" Atticus Finch simply points out the truth that while many white southerners would absolutely stand up for decency and the protection of their African American neighbors, they also stand up for the status quo of, basically, whites in charge.
I would argue that this is not "racist" in the hard sense. Why? Because most whites would utterly deny that they hate blacks. Like I said, they would absolutely go to bat for them if they discerned someone was in need. But the CULTURAL divide is too great for many. The legitimate demands for equality seem abrasive, hasty, pushy, ill-considered. The southern heart seems to like change to come slowly, naturally (if that is possible). Booker T. Washington, realizing this, urged blacks on a different path than W.E.B. Dubois.
27
Most people think raceism involves hate - it doesn't. According to the dictionary it requires a belief that race is a person 's defining characteristic and that on race is superior to others. Sounds like Harper Lee nailed it.
66
In reply to AaronS: You say that "while many white southerners would absolutely stand up for decency and the protection of their African American neighbors, they also stand up for the status quo of, basically, whites in charge" (and an example that you give regarding slavery) is arguably "is not 'racist' in the hard sense." I say that it's racist in the only sense that really matters -- that of the black people whose lives were and are made harder than those of whites, with their present and future possibilities for living full lives brutally limited by the "status quo of, basically, whites in charge."
12
"Complicated" is very interesting and stimulating. However it pales before the simple clarity of "right and wrong." I understand the need of people who have emotional attachments to their heritage and who are not intrinsically evil to come up with some sort of exegesis or apologia; and I admire one as thoughtful as yours. But still it pales.
7
Very thoughtful and insightful op-ed piece. I've been struck by how the juxtaposition of the two books reveals the evolution of relationships between children and their parents. In youth, many of us revere our parents and see them as virtual supermen and women. Later, not so much. In young adulthood we see them as hopelessly flawed.
8
Is anyone else baffled by NYT's obsession with this book? How many more weeks will we continue to see it featured? I'm sure it's a good book, but now that it has been analyzed to death, I have any interest in reading it. Ugh!
A survey of 100 random people might produce the result of 80% not knowing or caring what the fuss is all about.
1
I haven't read Watchman but Atticus' voting for Eisenhower sounds very odd. In 1952 the VP nominee on the Democratic ticket was John Sparkman, senator from Alabama. If it was the 1956 election, his VP nominee, Estes Kevaufer, was from Tennessee and Eisenhower would have been blamed for appointing Earl Warren, who always bore much of the right wing blame for the rulings of his court. And even in the 1960 election, JFK still took most of the south despite his being a Catholic and that Senator Byrd of Virginia ran as states rights third party candidate.
One other thing. Senator Fulbright once said that the only southern senator who voted against civil rights legislation because he really believed that integration would lead to the country's downfall was Senator Russell of Georgia; the rest did so because they needed to get elected. Men like Strom Thurmond and George Wallace appeared to be appealing to voters in their racist claims and dropped them when black voters became important in their states; it sounds like Atticus Finch really believed in his racist views.
One other thing. Senator Fulbright once said that the only southern senator who voted against civil rights legislation because he really believed that integration would lead to the country's downfall was Senator Russell of Georgia; the rest did so because they needed to get elected. Men like Strom Thurmond and George Wallace appeared to be appealing to voters in their racist claims and dropped them when black voters became important in their states; it sounds like Atticus Finch really believed in his racist views.
1
Does the book discuss the role of communists in creating a strategy of tension in the South for the purpose of political gain? Is there sufficient moral signalling in the characters to allow modern SWPLS the opportunity to vicariously feel "on the right side of history" in the face of those dastardly "reactionaries?"
1
According to their biographies, the Editorial Board has 18 members. Not a single one was born in, went to school in, or lists a job in the Alabama or anywhere else in the Deep South. Too tell us that Watchman reveals political realities better than Mockingbird the 18 non-Southerners rely mostly on the career of Strom Thurmond. I,m guessing they know about that by reading the Times. Why would they consult a South Carolina newspaper, after all?
3
You ask a good question: why would they consult a South Carolina newspaper for an unbiased perspective on race relations? But then, who would?
2
I am sorry that you do not know how to read a newspaper. This is not an editorial. It does not represent the opinion of the editorial board. It is an op-ed piece written by "Joseph Crespino is a professor of American history at Emory and the author of “Strom Thurmond’s America.”"
1
I think that the only lesson from this book is that you can't trust people when money is involved. I won't read this book b/c I have no faith that Lee in any way wanted this book published. What a coincidence that it is happening when she is practically 90 and in a nursing home. I'm appalled by this exploitation and I can't believe that anyone who knows this story would go out and buy this book that was only published to enrich her attorney, agents, etc.
5
I'm wondering if this hype is legit.?regarding the new book by Harper lee? Many authors write possible versions of their books or plays.
I sometimes wish there had been no movie made of this transcendent novel. I read "Mockingbird" when I was perhaps 11 or 12, a black kid in segregated Richmond,VA. I was beguiled by Scout's voice, not at all too far in age from my own. I was transfixed by her journey of discovery with Boo and Tom. I saw the movie years later in College, and although it was soothing to hear Scout's voice, I was slightly jostled by the shifted focus to Atticus. Today, that shift makes sense. It was a commercial decision -- Hollywood, matinee idol Gregory Peck, movie shot in black and white, he in white suit that glowed in every scene setting him in aura. The point is that the movie eclipsed the meaning of the novel with many readers. The book, on its own, is clearly that of Scout's perspective of society's capacity for acting inhumanely, of the lynch mob from the jailhouse porch, from the courthouse gallery with the "same" perspective of the segregated blacks, and from the obscured vision of the Ham costume and the realization later. She comes to terms with this inhumanity. Atticus and Jem help. But she sees. She comes to know that Boo and Tom are not only fully human, but rise above the rest of humanity to bring joy and comfort. And like songbirds must not be silenced nor destroyed. She becomes more fully human. This is her journey. Too bad that this lovely story got reduced to that of "Atticus Finch, the Great Southern Liberal White Lawyer." How unfair to Scout. How unfair to Harper Lee.
92
This essay and the ones in yesterday's Room for Debate reflect a simplistic view of southern society and culture as the products of racial bias. Prejudice does have deep roots in the white community, but if no other influences shaped southern attitudes, hostility would be the sole defining characteristic of race relations. It would be impossible to explain biracial friendships, such as have existed at all periods of southern history. The Atticus of "Mockingbird," although idealized, is just as believable as the racial bigot of "Watchman." He is a decent man who carefully chooses his battles against the racist culture in which he lives. He does not challenge the all-white jury or oppose the segregated seating in the courthouse. His class bias shows in his paternalistic attitude towards both blacks and poor whites. In this he resembles somewhat Abraham Lincoln, who grew up in an Illinois at least as racist as the south. Lincoln did not regard blacks as his equals, but he demanded decent treatment of them. His experience in the war caused him to increase his respect for African Americans, and at the end of his life, he disagreed with the vast majority of whites in favoring the suffrage for some blacks. Lincoln followed one path to a mature understanding of black Americans; Atticus apparently let his fears lead him down another one. Both are perfectly believable, but only within a context in which racial prejudice is just one influence, albeit a very powerful one.
27
Having read GO SET A WATCHMAN yesterday, I am encouraged by this essay, as it describes a fair, informed interpretation of the book. It is difficult to detach emotionally from the beacon of justice portrayed in Lee's MOCKINGBIRD, but this "new" work is a more practical and nuanced piece that resonates right now, not only for political reasons, but for psychological ones. Jeanne Louise, aka Scout, is called out in the book for her polarization, and although she is described as 'colorblind', her reactions to this Atticus Finch's choice and his thought process shows the reader that no point of view is either completely
black or completely white.
black or completely white.
4
"How is it possible that the fair-minded Atticus Finch of “To Kill a Mockingbird” could also be the embittered racist depicted in the newly published “Go Set a Watchman”?"
You have got to be kidding!! Atticus is a fictional character and Watchman and Mockingbird are two different books. Mockingbird is the result of a complete editorially assisted rewrite of Watchman which better fit the racial sensibilities of the public at the time it was written.
Why are educated people acting like Atticus is a real person who changed his personality? This is really unbelievable.
You have got to be kidding!! Atticus is a fictional character and Watchman and Mockingbird are two different books. Mockingbird is the result of a complete editorially assisted rewrite of Watchman which better fit the racial sensibilities of the public at the time it was written.
Why are educated people acting like Atticus is a real person who changed his personality? This is really unbelievable.
34
Seems to me that it's mostly a result of reports in the media, rather than of actually reading the books. I haven't read "Watchman" yet and hadn't really been interested in it, but now I want to. Atticus is one of those characters whom everyone knows--from the movie, if not the book--and to see that "Stand up, your father is passing" scene in the film and then hear that the character isn't being shown in such a glowing light in another context will naturally upset admirers. Fiction is often more influential than reality--any politician knows that. And it sounds like "Watchman" is worth a read.
1
Don't a majority of people feel the same way about biblical characters, even though there's very little proof that any of them actually existed, even in the New Testament?
I don't think people are treating Atticus as a real person. They're discussing whether the portrayals of Atticus in two books are contradictory. Some say yes, others, including me, say the portrayals show believable change in both Atticus and his daughter.
in answer to the stunned outcry of how could this be... this essay paints the picture in a most realistic way. cynical, yes, but reality makes cynics of us all.
3
Lily Tomlin once said, "No matter how cynical you are, it's not enough." I have come to realize how unfortunately true that is.
1
I heard there is maybe a third manuscript out there. Maybe the final sequel will be the part the parallels arch-segregationist Strom Thurmond's own many year affair with an African American woman and his own mixed race child whose very existence was liability. Talk about a guy who was politically expedient and gut-wrenchingly hypocritical. Wow.
6
The central metaphor in "To Kill a Mockingbird" compares an innocent black man to an animal, a helpless animal. Atticus was always deeply entrenched in the unconsciously racist ideas of his world. We all just really liked Gregory Peck's interpretation, and did not read the novel with enough attention to its construction.
53
Very few people are without their contradictions in character whether it's fiction or real life. Lincoln, to take a famous person, was not as passionate about freeing the slaves as he was about trying to keep the United States united. George Washington owned slaves. How do we reconcile these contradictions? One way is to say that we're all human beings and have flaws. That doesn't mean that we don't try to work on them. Fictional characters can't because the book ends at some point. Living people can.
Having not read this "sequel" I have no idea how I'd feel about Atticus Finch as racist. It depends upon how he got there. Based upon real life and what I've seen during my life I'd bet he was a racist before but a principled man who believed that every man or woman was entitled to justice no matter what their skin color. We all have our prejudices. We can't always get over them but we can understand them and try to deal with each person as a person rather than a racial identity. It helps if we're honest with ourselves but that can be very hard because no one likes to admit to him or herself the presence of racist feelings, or feelings of disgust about a handicapped person, or the visceral dislike of someone's appearance for whatever reason.
We're all human and deserve to be treated as humans: with dignity, respect, courtesy, and compassion. That's true no matter what color skin we have, what our ethnic background is, or where we stand on the social ladder.
Having not read this "sequel" I have no idea how I'd feel about Atticus Finch as racist. It depends upon how he got there. Based upon real life and what I've seen during my life I'd bet he was a racist before but a principled man who believed that every man or woman was entitled to justice no matter what their skin color. We all have our prejudices. We can't always get over them but we can understand them and try to deal with each person as a person rather than a racial identity. It helps if we're honest with ourselves but that can be very hard because no one likes to admit to him or herself the presence of racist feelings, or feelings of disgust about a handicapped person, or the visceral dislike of someone's appearance for whatever reason.
We're all human and deserve to be treated as humans: with dignity, respect, courtesy, and compassion. That's true no matter what color skin we have, what our ethnic background is, or where we stand on the social ladder.
31
As a southerner who grew up in Atlanta and spent time with my grandparents in a small Georgia town similar to Monroeville as well as NYC, the Atticus Finch depicted in TKAMB has always seemed like a sugarcoated creation flown in from Hollywood or the ivory towers of Manhattan. I am very anxious to read "Watchman." Perhaps it will help self righteous northerners shed a little light on their own bigotry when it comes to white southerners.
55
So-called "self-righteous northerners" knew there were good people like Atticus down yonder. That's why we loved him.
1
Are southerners to take satisfaction in pointing out that there are bigots in the north as racist as they are in the south.
1
There's a difference between bigotry and not liking someone for a good reason.
1
People can be complex. When you think about it, there's no contradiction in a man like Atticus Finch. He believes in the rights of the individual Black man -when confronted with a gross miscarriage of justice. But not in the right of the Black population to change the status quo and the way of life he knows. Especially not when it involves the help of Federal and other outside forces.
108
I do not think of my government as an outside force.
5
Yes, but folks like Atticus did. While they accepted and steered the federal monies from the New Deal and wartime redistribution of resources, of course....
2
People are getting too carried away with the literature figure, Atticus Fitch. Read the book, learn from it and perhaps open your mind to different characters and different situations.
10
It' is good to remember that Atticus Finch was created by Harper Lee
and she can do whatever she wanted with him. A lawyer in the south
would have starved to death had he not "played the game" on civil
rights. As lawyer he fulfilled the highest calling of the profession by
defendng his client to the best of his ability.
Sam Ervin the hero of Watergate was hardly a beacon of civil
rights. He too, like Atticus Finch whas a product of his times.
We must avoid the disease of "presentism" to judge characters.
We see our parents differently as adults than as children.
A useful reminder, the National Review has always been bad
on race. That has not changed.
and she can do whatever she wanted with him. A lawyer in the south
would have starved to death had he not "played the game" on civil
rights. As lawyer he fulfilled the highest calling of the profession by
defendng his client to the best of his ability.
Sam Ervin the hero of Watergate was hardly a beacon of civil
rights. He too, like Atticus Finch whas a product of his times.
We must avoid the disease of "presentism" to judge characters.
We see our parents differently as adults than as children.
A useful reminder, the National Review has always been bad
on race. That has not changed.
76
Exactly. And there are other things Atticus says in "Mockingbird" that argue against portraying him as simply a "bigoted racist." When Scout asks him if he is a "n---- lover," he says he certainly is. He tries to love everybody. His attitudes are actually more in line with church teaching, even if culturally (as religion institutions also have) he still may believe the white man is more capable of running things. In addition, why does no one bring up the sexism in "Mockingbird." It's clear that Atticus, et al, hold traditional views in that way, too. In "Watchman," it's equally interesting that Jean Louise is becoming more of an independent woman who doesn't want to live a life of teas.
3
If America is such a burden to you poor delicate southerners then maybe you guys should secede again.
We Americans are fed up with your endless hypocritical whinning.
Funny how you southerners don't hate the US Government enough to say "no" to the endless handouts you get from solvent American states and the evil Federal Government.
Dear South,
LEAVE ALREADY!
You won't be missed.
Sincerely,
Loyal Americans Who Love Our Country
We Americans are fed up with your endless hypocritical whinning.
Funny how you southerners don't hate the US Government enough to say "no" to the endless handouts you get from solvent American states and the evil Federal Government.
Dear South,
LEAVE ALREADY!
You won't be missed.
Sincerely,
Loyal Americans Who Love Our Country
59
If the South is such a terrible place how come so many of your fellow Yankees keep moving down here?? Its bad enough that ya'll keep moving down here in increasing numbers but you still vote for the Dems who made your Yankee states in the terrible places they are today......anybody heard of Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore??? Keep moving here if you must but please don't turn our states into the messes caused by the Democrats in your states. Thank you. A Southern Belle
3
From a certain point of view I can understand your comment. We get angry over real or perceived inequities. However I am a transplanted Yankee these past 30 years. Southerners are very generous with their sons, daughters, and acreage to the US military and I don't think we want to encourage secession at this point. We're much better off sticking together. Witness Fort Bragg, Cherry Point or Pope Air Force base and that's just NC.The link below gives more info on this subject. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/10/the-militarys-deepen...
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/10/the-militarys-deepen...
2
Thanks for proving that antiSoutherner bigotry is alive and well.
Atticus Finch was about 50 in “Mockingbird,” which is set in the 1930. So he would have been born around 1875, just 10 years after John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln. He views of racial equality for blacks were similar in some ways to Lincoln views. In an 1858 speech, Lincoln said, “I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.” So, by 21st century standards both Abe and Atticus were racists, but both were in enlightened compared to their contemporaries, Lincoln opposed slavery. Atticus opposed lynch law. Both taught their children not to hate people because of their race. Martin Luther King based his non-violent protest strategy on the premise that the South has more Atticus Finches than Bob Ewells. l
56
I don't recall if the book stated Atticus' age but as he had two young children from his first and only marriage, I would assume he was in his 30s in Mockingbird. This would have placed his birth not long after the Plessy v. Ferguson Supreme Court decision that upheld segregation and essentially destroyed any gains blacks had made in the south during reconstruction.
He also would have been in his 20s when the Ku Klux Klan became such a major political force that it was able to have a large parade in Washington.
He also would have been in his 20s when the Ku Klux Klan became such a major political force that it was able to have a large parade in Washington.
Actually, Mockingbird takes place about 1935 and Atticus is 49. So he would have been born closer to 1885, right? But otherwise agree with all points.
In "Watchman," Jean Louise is told that more people in her hometown agree with her views than she might suspect. The men in her life, Atticus, Henry, Uncle Jack (?), are actually somewhat enlightened. But they have to live and work in Maycomb and don't want to make enemies of everyone. Besides, Atticus genuinely cares for his neighbors as people, trying not to just judge them on their political views.
In "Watchman," Jean Louise is told that more people in her hometown agree with her views than she might suspect. The men in her life, Atticus, Henry, Uncle Jack (?), are actually somewhat enlightened. But they have to live and work in Maycomb and don't want to make enemies of everyone. Besides, Atticus genuinely cares for his neighbors as people, trying not to just judge them on their political views.
1
Lincoln evolved; I’m not so sure you have. At least you pull out a favorite quote of Neo-Confederates and black militants. But you omitted an essential part: “there is no reason in the world why the [N]egro is not entitled to all the rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence. . . I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man.… he is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color—perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments; but in the right to eat the bread without leave of anybody else which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every other man.”
Surprised you didn’t quote another favorite of that crowd: “What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." A convenient prop to claim that the Civil War was not about slavery, and that Lincoln was indifferent to the issue, but only if one edits out Lincoln’s punch line: “I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.”
Surprised you didn’t quote another favorite of that crowd: “What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." A convenient prop to claim that the Civil War was not about slavery, and that Lincoln was indifferent to the issue, but only if one edits out Lincoln’s punch line: “I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.”
It's easy to categorize Atticus Finch's views as Southern bigotry but that ignores the fact this country was founded on apartheid racist principles when slavery was an economic institution. Whatever you do, don't read some of Abraham Lincoln's statements in the Lincoln-Douglas debates. They pretty much echo what Atticus said.
17
All Greek heroes are deeply flawed - it's what makes them heroes. It's also what separates great characters in literature from children's literature.
50
Atticus' perspective on American law does seem to indicate that he accepts society as governed by tribal rules of race, class, and clan. The higher up the social scale one goes, the more one is capable of, and expected to, adhere to the loftiest principles embodied by law.
TKAM is a novel about his six-year old daughter's attempts to reconcile her sense of tribal rules with Atticus' notion of the rule of law. Both she and her brother are experiencing something of a crisis of confidence in their father over matters involving schoolyard fights, dinner-table manners, and neighborly courtesy. Thru that filter, even she is aware that Mae Ella has violated a serious tribal rule, one that doesn't make much sense, but one that is hitting the town deep in the gut.
The coexistence -- and balancing -- of tribal rules and the rule of law is not specific to the South. It is the same problem that sees a divided Supreme Court claiming that matters of basic human rights -- in some cases -- ought to be deferred in order to allow time for tribal customs to adapt themselves to social change.
TKAM is a novel about his six-year old daughter's attempts to reconcile her sense of tribal rules with Atticus' notion of the rule of law. Both she and her brother are experiencing something of a crisis of confidence in their father over matters involving schoolyard fights, dinner-table manners, and neighborly courtesy. Thru that filter, even she is aware that Mae Ella has violated a serious tribal rule, one that doesn't make much sense, but one that is hitting the town deep in the gut.
The coexistence -- and balancing -- of tribal rules and the rule of law is not specific to the South. It is the same problem that sees a divided Supreme Court claiming that matters of basic human rights -- in some cases -- ought to be deferred in order to allow time for tribal customs to adapt themselves to social change.
11
It's interesting that at the same time as Atticus, a fictional
Southern character, is revealed to have had new depth, a real
Southern actor, Dylann Roof, has been flattened into a symbol.
As far as I can tell from news accounts, Roof's actions were
almost entirely due to mental illness. Journalists have been
derelict in not exploring his history in finer granularity,
chasing after Confederate flag stories instead.
Southern character, is revealed to have had new depth, a real
Southern actor, Dylann Roof, has been flattened into a symbol.
As far as I can tell from news accounts, Roof's actions were
almost entirely due to mental illness. Journalists have been
derelict in not exploring his history in finer granularity,
chasing after Confederate flag stories instead.
12
I have seen a single news story about what really caused the Charleston church massacre. In his Facebook manifesto, Dylann Roof did not mention the Confederacy, the Civil War or Rebel battle flags. However, he detailed the specific complaints he said drove him to mass murders. He primarily blamed black-on-white violence and his perception that news media’s unfairly focuses on white-on-black violence although black-on-white violence is more common. He wrote that his obsession began with the Trayvon Marin case. He followed a link posted by a commenter on the controversy to a website that focuses on black-on-white murders. He wrote, “There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on white murders. I was in disbelief. How could the news be blowing up the Trayvon Martin case while hundreds of these black on white murders got ignored?” So oddly, Roof's complaint mirrors the "Black Lives Matter" protest in some ways. He also listed what he regarded as black people’s racist attitudes toward whites and the bullying of white students by black students at integrated schools. He did mention slavery, but only to say he resented the assumption his ancestors were slave owners simply because he is a white Southerner. It apparent that Roof did not become a mass murderer due to watching too many "Gone With the Wind" reruns.
3
Odd how this author failed to mention Strom's long-term sexual relations, most likely rape, of a black woman which produced a bi-racial child, during the same time he fueled racism in Southern politics.
17
"Most likely rape"? Where does that allegation come from?
"..still in their childhood as a people".
Amazing what 250 years of chattel slavery can do.
Chain people up, work them to near death, deprive them of any education, impose a death sentence for knowing how to read, break up families, for profit, and rape them at will.
Now, that, is a heritage to be proud of.
Amazing what 250 years of chattel slavery can do.
Chain people up, work them to near death, deprive them of any education, impose a death sentence for knowing how to read, break up families, for profit, and rape them at will.
Now, that, is a heritage to be proud of.
101
We know enough of Southern bigotry. TKAM gave us a good father and citizen, a white man we could be proud of and even love. I guess HarperCollins felt it could squeeze more money than it already has from Ms. Lee's book. But they won't get any from me. Shameless group they are.
4
The Atticus Finch of Mockingbird practiced law in the 1930s. Race relations were better in New York City than the fictional Maycomb, Alabama, during the 1930s because blacks made up only about four percent of New York City’s population while blacks made up about 44 percent of the population in small Alabama towns like Maycomb. New Yorkers considered themselves free of racial prejudice because they visited Harlem nightclubs to listen to black jazz musicians. “Watchman” is set in the 1950s. Scout returns from New York City to visit her father in Maycomb. She is shocked to discover that Atticus supports the “separate but equal” dogma of the segregated South and opposes school integration. His attitudes compares poorly to Scout’s circle of friends back in Manhattan. But is Maycomb of the 1950s really all that different from New York City of the 1950s? New York City’s black population was beginning to grow in the 1950s, blacks were moving out of Harlem into white neighborhoods. White New Yorkers were already beginning to flee to the suburbs. Maycomb is patterned after Harper Lee’s hometown of Monroeville, Alabama. Today, New York City is only 33 percent white while Monroeville is about 42 percent white, about the same as it was in the 1930s. And New York City schools are the nation’s most segregated. White students make up only 14.5 percent of New York City Public Schools students while whites make up 48.3 percent of Monroeville County School Districts students.
21
To William:
Just wondering how many Chinese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, and Latino students there are in the Monroeville School District. There are a lot in the NYC schools. I would assume in Monroeville it's virtually all only Blacks and Whites.
Just wondering how many Chinese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, and Latino students there are in the Monroeville School District. There are a lot in the NYC schools. I would assume in Monroeville it's virtually all only Blacks and Whites.
Though I had not planned on reading "Watchman," Mr. Crespino's review has changed my mind. "Mockingbird" came out at a time when I was an impressionable youngster, and Atticus Finch became a longtime hero of genuine integrity and compassion. Ms. Lee's portrait of Finch's multilayered character reacting to the times in which he lived was both courageous and perspicacious. To publish the prequel now in a more complicated, complex, and depressing era of racial relations may be exactly the kind of thought-provoking novel that may not only present a more realistic view of the racially biased policies that have infected our country since its infancy, but also could well ignite a more insightful discussion of how it got that way, and what we can do about it. Thank you.
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Finch believed black people had a basic right to common courtesy and not to be lynched for crimes they didn't commit. He also believed them to have some negative traits and preferred to live apart from them. There has nothing to do with Southern politics, black/white relations, or even this country.
There are many civil rights/anti-racist leaders who have betrayed themselves as having strong animosity and bigotry towards other minorities. The New York Times has written a few dozen articles bemoaning the character flaws of this fictitious character. If only they held real people beloved by the left to the same standard!
There are many civil rights/anti-racist leaders who have betrayed themselves as having strong animosity and bigotry towards other minorities. The New York Times has written a few dozen articles bemoaning the character flaws of this fictitious character. If only they held real people beloved by the left to the same standard!
21
Hayden C., Possibly because they are so outnumbered and outbigoted by those beloved by the right.
5
You are right that the New York Times has completely failed, in article after article, to grasp the character of Atticus Finch, as expressed in two novels by Harper Lee. He was a fictional lawyer who did not let his personal opinion of people deter him from seeking justice on their behalf.
Readers of "To Kill a Mockingbird" understood that perfectly well. There was no need for them to read her long-unpublished first novel.
Readers of "To Kill a Mockingbird" understood that perfectly well. There was no need for them to read her long-unpublished first novel.
3
From a New Orleans native (1944):
There is a difference between "living apart from" and Jim Crow segregation and second-class treatment.
There is a difference between "living apart from" and Jim Crow segregation and second-class treatment.
4
It's bit of a stretch comparing Atticus Finch with Strom Thurmond. Strom Thurmond had been an unrepentant racist since Day One. In the Senate he filibustered against civil rights legislation and splintered off from the Democratic party in 1948 to run for President as a Dixiecrat independent whose whole platform vowed to keep segregation intact in the South forever. Atticus Finch, by comparison, was more of a closet racist who was very careful to keep his bigoted views on race to himself and hidden from his impressionable daughter. Remember that in the new novel Atticus Finch is now an old man who probably isn't practicing law anymore. But that doesn't diminish his heroic defense of a black client accused of rape in To Kill A Mockingbird. I don't want to jump to hasty conclusions about Atticus Finch. I still plan to buy the book to see how this all plays out.
25
"In one passage, Atticus tells his daughter, 'Honey, you do not seem to understand that the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.'”
If that does not strike you as racist, perhaps you have more in common with both Finch and Thurmond than you think.
If that does not strike you as racist, perhaps you have more in common with both Finch and Thurmond than you think.
1
‘Still in its childhood’ as a nation might be a description of the Disunited States of America, in so many ways--- with racial divides, confederate flags flying, mass incarceration, a backward and dysfunctional justice system, confusion about what the Constitution means, extreme economic inequality, and dominance of our govt by big money.
If Harper Lee were young now, what would her 1st novel be like?
What tensions and confusions liberal whites in the South must have gone through. Many had to move away. They were torn between family loyalty and revolt from their society. In childhood, their authority figures and moral examples supported white supremacy, even if some were more moderate in their treatment. From parents, teachers, clergy, to sheriffs, judges, senators, governors. If one disagreed it was easier not to talk about it.
If Harper Lee were young now, what would her 1st novel be like?
What tensions and confusions liberal whites in the South must have gone through. Many had to move away. They were torn between family loyalty and revolt from their society. In childhood, their authority figures and moral examples supported white supremacy, even if some were more moderate in their treatment. From parents, teachers, clergy, to sheriffs, judges, senators, governors. If one disagreed it was easier not to talk about it.
30