I don't think ARod should be in the Hall of Fame. I don't think Bonds belongs in the Hall of Fame. I don't think McGuire belongs in the Hall of Fame. Rose? He gambled on baseball games. After being caught, repeatedly, he continued to gamble on baseball games that he played/coached in. No way. He's a cheater, like McGuire and Bonds and Rodriguez are cheaters. He doesn't belong in the hall. And, yes, he was an unbelievable hitter -- I'm seasoned enough to remember him -- but he bet on baseball games while playing in them. It's not, at all, a stretch to wonder if he threw games to fulfill his gambling habit.
1
Baseball at the time Pete Rose played had one rule and it was prominently posted in every club house. Every player knew in no uncertain terms what that rule was. And Pete Rose broke it.
Many suspected steroid users with statistics even more impressive that Rose's are being kept out of the HOF. Rose has confessed to everything he has been accused of.
Many suspected steroid users with statistics even more impressive that Rose's are being kept out of the HOF. Rose has confessed to everything he has been accused of.
Sure, why not let him into the Hall of Fame? The Times is well behind A-Rod even though he's a scientifically proven cheater, so why not?
It's funny how the Times forgives these known cheaters and yet have taken Tom Brady to task without a shred of evidence he did anything wrong.
Where's the journalistic standards?
It's funny how the Times forgives these known cheaters and yet have taken Tom Brady to task without a shred of evidence he did anything wrong.
Where's the journalistic standards?
2
Gambled on games. Check
Uncontested leader in MLB hits. Check
No performance enhancing drugs. Check
Flawed man. Check
Cheating athlete? Not Pete Rose
Uncontested leader in MLB hits. Check
No performance enhancing drugs. Check
Flawed man. Check
Cheating athlete? Not Pete Rose
1
Pete Rose is a flawed human being not only because of the betting,which is important only to the business of baseball, but unimportant otherwise, but also because of how he treated his wife, Carolyn.
But, when he was a rookie, and at that time, white players on the Reds hung only with white players and black with black and Cincinnati still had a whites only amusement park, he would eat with the black players (Frank Robinson and Vada Pinson). Moreover, when he was chasing Ty Cobb's record and the baseball strike intervened and could have derailed him, he was strong for the strike and then still beat the record afterwards.
But, when he was a rookie, and at that time, white players on the Reds hung only with white players and black with black and Cincinnati still had a whites only amusement park, he would eat with the black players (Frank Robinson and Vada Pinson). Moreover, when he was chasing Ty Cobb's record and the baseball strike intervened and could have derailed him, he was strong for the strike and then still beat the record afterwards.
2
So the fans can forgive Pete Rose, an unrepentant lier who--we've just found out--bet on baseball even as an active player, and we can't forgive Alex Rodriguez, who served his PED suspension, humbly apologized, and has done everything right to redeem himself? It's unconscionable MLB (and FOX Sports) have given Rose a platform for the 2015 All Star Game while not recognizing A-Rod's stunning performance the first half of this year by bringing him to Cincinnati. It's hypocrisy at its best.
1
Rose, who is definitely an unpleasant human being, achieved his stats straight. As someone here in Cincinnati once said to me during the Big Red Machine days, the things that disgust you about Rose off the field are the same things that you love when he's on the field.
Rose and Joe Jackson both deserve to be in the Hall. Maybe even Rodriguez as well, since he has done penance, and has indeed proven with his own numbers that he can hit 'em where they ain't when straight.
Rose and Joe Jackson both deserve to be in the Hall. Maybe even Rodriguez as well, since he has done penance, and has indeed proven with his own numbers that he can hit 'em where they ain't when straight.
Failure to enshrine Charlie Hustle in Cooperstown relegates MLB's Hall of Fame to an exhibition of second-class also-rans. Blessed Redeemer, where art Thou?
After they let Joe Jackson in.
1
Not getting to the Hall is no disgrace - signing the flabby arm of a woman in Norman IL for a few shekels is.
(p.s. he belongs in the Hall with the numerous other scoundrels)
(p.s. he belongs in the Hall with the numerous other scoundrels)
As a lifelong Reds fan and a devotee of Pete Rose the tremendous ballplayer, sign him in! As a flawed man, as all of us are, sign him in! As someone that couldn't be man enough to admit to a mistake and apologize to devotees like me, keep him the hell out!!!!
Pete Rose was a great player who played all out. His gambling on games has been proven ,denied and finally admitted. I recall reading in the NYT that commissioner Giametti halted the investigation when the investigator wanted to delve into whether Charlie hustle sold drugs in the club house. Rose's behavior may have gone beyond gambling and hence MLB 's unwillingness to forgive him. Personally I object to him being on the same field with MLB players at any event whatsoever.
3
When Pete Rose comes here he sets up his autograph pop up store on the opposite end of Main Street from the Hall of Fame. Where he belongs.
After the steroid scandal, Rose's sin is minor. His accomplishments as a ball player are Hall of Fame material.
1
If Pete Rose gambled it was a manager and not a player. At least those are the charges against him. But the Hall of Fame would not be voting him in as a manager but as a player.
It is absolutely absurd to keep a player who was nicknamed "Charlie Hustle," who didn't have the natural ability of a Bonds or a DiMaggio, out of the HOF because he's a metaphor for what discipline, determination, and hard work can accomplish. Nobody got more joy out of the game than Peter Rose, and nobody played with as much unbridled enthusiasm.
He got the most hits of any player in history and he's not in the Hall of Fame? That's ridiculous.
It is absolutely absurd to keep a player who was nicknamed "Charlie Hustle," who didn't have the natural ability of a Bonds or a DiMaggio, out of the HOF because he's a metaphor for what discipline, determination, and hard work can accomplish. Nobody got more joy out of the game than Peter Rose, and nobody played with as much unbridled enthusiasm.
He got the most hits of any player in history and he's not in the Hall of Fame? That's ridiculous.
3
I will be surprised and disappointed if Pete Rose gets into the Hall of Fame. Not getting in is not the worst thing that can happen to a ballplayer and if baseball is to keep its integrity it must not make an exception to its no gambling rule.
2
People have been betting on baseball since the game was invented. Does that make it right that Pete Rose bet on baseball? No, because he could influence the outcome of a game as a player and as a coach. And every good gambler is looking for that edge. Pete played baseball the same way he gambles, all out, always looking for that extra edge. That's the only way he operates. He signs autographs the same way; full bore, all out-all the time.
The Hall of Fame is filled with the plaques of players who were great at baseball and often quite imperfect in other ways. Who are we to judge these men? We can judge them as great ball players who deserve to be there. We cannot judge them on any other basis.
A number of years ago I interviewed Sparky Anderson, Pete's manager with The Big Red Machine. Sparky had nothing but admiration for the way the man he always called Peter played the game. That's good enough for me.
Is Rose a nice guy? Nope. Is he honest? No. Did he cheat? Maybe. Was he the best at what he did on the diamond during his long career? I think so. He brought a child-like zest to the sport. And he hustled. I admire him for that. Enough already. Let him in.
The Hall of Fame is filled with the plaques of players who were great at baseball and often quite imperfect in other ways. Who are we to judge these men? We can judge them as great ball players who deserve to be there. We cannot judge them on any other basis.
A number of years ago I interviewed Sparky Anderson, Pete's manager with The Big Red Machine. Sparky had nothing but admiration for the way the man he always called Peter played the game. That's good enough for me.
Is Rose a nice guy? Nope. Is he honest? No. Did he cheat? Maybe. Was he the best at what he did on the diamond during his long career? I think so. He brought a child-like zest to the sport. And he hustled. I admire him for that. Enough already. Let him in.
4
Pete Rose was a good man and a great ball player. Everyone makes a mistake every once in awhile, because he is human. I mean just because he made one mistake in his career doesn't ruin all the rest of the great things that he did in his career. I believe that he should be allowed into the hall of fame.
4
The two things that Rose defenders have to deal with are: he could throw a game to pay down a debt to the wise guys and by doing it that way would not leave a paper trail. Secondly, it is not in the interest of the commissioner's office to pursue and prosecute for the throwing of games; that doesn't sell tickets and doesn't make the owners richer.
Pete Rose is a stain on baseball.
1
I agree, HapinOregon. I can think of no up-side to MLB inducting him into the Hall of Fame. Pete Rose would do well to enter into a 12 step program, like AA, where he would take stock of himself, work to make amends to the sport he has harmed and give up his quest for the Hall of Fame.
1
Pete Rose profiteering by autographing baseball memorabilia reminds me of former Georgia Governor Lester Maddox selling signed "segregation forever" axe handles from his Atlanta Underground storefront in the '70's. It's just really disturbing on so many levels.
3
"Convicted liar, gambler, money hungry" describes 75% of the current and past political establishment.
3
Pete Rose is a jerk, has been since the day he started playing for the Reds, still is. But he was a great ballplayer, sadly with a gambling habit. I think it's time to put the man in the Hall of Fame despite his weaknesses and his jerkiness. He's human too.
9
Rose fans continually ignore that there is no lifetime ban. Instead, there is an agreement Rose and his lawyers negotiated for him to be permanently ineligible to avoid any findings that could have led to a ban. Pete and his apologists always lie about this.
But why should that be a surprise? The only time Pete isn't lying is when his lips aren't moving. And don't forget Pete actually went to prison over baseball related offenses of tax evasion from his continuous shilling of real and counterfeit memorabilia. Pete's on field accomplishments are acknowledged in exhibits inside the HOF. But a plaque? I hope not.
But why should that be a surprise? The only time Pete isn't lying is when his lips aren't moving. And don't forget Pete actually went to prison over baseball related offenses of tax evasion from his continuous shilling of real and counterfeit memorabilia. Pete's on field accomplishments are acknowledged in exhibits inside the HOF. But a plaque? I hope not.
5
Major League Baseball is moving into the 21st Century, accepting gambling and even the occasional fixed game as part of our culture. If it's o.k. for International Football, racing of all sorts, and the NFL baseball reasons it can adapt.
If you thought those morning scores reflect the honest effort of all involved you now need to evolve. The game accepts just a bit of rigging.
If you thought those morning scores reflect the honest effort of all involved you now need to evolve. The game accepts just a bit of rigging.
Pete Rose had an addiction to gambling. Are any ball players being kept out of the Hall because of alcohol addiction? Sex addiction? All are treatable. Is Pete a recovering gambler? Is he being kept out of the Hall because of a mental illness? "Just askin".
The sad part of the story is the apparently meaningless life he is now living. I truly hope that there is another side to the Pete Rose story.
The sad part of the story is the apparently meaningless life he is now living. I truly hope that there is another side to the Pete Rose story.
1
Looks like no one was in the stands. Yawn.
Your sentence Pete Rose finds validation in money pretty much sums up his gambling history. Pete was known to have a gambling addiciton, and in his profession it's not acceptable. When his problems were discovered he didnt own up to it, if he had i believe the outcome may have been different.
Baseball wants us to believe he bet on baseball and that's the end of the story. Does any adult believe that an inveterate gambler like Rose, tax cheat, ex con, liar, and all around bad guy would not avail himself of the opportunity to determine the outcome of a game if he could make a small bundle by doing so? Grow up America.
1
I think he should be in the HOF just as soon as he's forgiven by Bart Giamatti.
1
That is exactly what I have thought for years but in a little more complicated way. As an avid baseball fan nerd from southern Ohio who had left (1966) before Pete Rose arrived on the Major League scene, I think I appreciate his strengths and weaknesses, if from a distance. After all, this is a super-jock who took 5 years to graduate from the jock HS in Cincinnati (4 would have been normal). He was a great baseball player and seems to be a shallow and flawed person.
That said I believe it would have been good for baseball in the Midwest and everyone else concerned to get him back inside the tent. I suspect Giamatti would have found some formula to keep him out of dugouts altogether and out of ballparks without very adult supervision yet signal that he was eligible for the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately Giamatti died after a very short tenure as Commissioner and for a long while the reverence for his Commissionership precluded even considering a useful accommodation. Maybe Rob Manfred can figure something out. Ironically, I think it is possible that Pete has drawn more signing business in Las Vegas and in the Midwest as a renegade than he would have without the controversy.
That said I believe it would have been good for baseball in the Midwest and everyone else concerned to get him back inside the tent. I suspect Giamatti would have found some formula to keep him out of dugouts altogether and out of ballparks without very adult supervision yet signal that he was eligible for the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately Giamatti died after a very short tenure as Commissioner and for a long while the reverence for his Commissionership precluded even considering a useful accommodation. Maybe Rob Manfred can figure something out. Ironically, I think it is possible that Pete has drawn more signing business in Las Vegas and in the Midwest as a renegade than he would have without the controversy.
1
the man remains pretty unrepentive. Barely admits any wrong. So, ew.... yuck
7
We need a separate Hall of Shame for him, McGwire, Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, etc.
6
A big difference... What Rose did did not affect the play of the game (at least, no one has said or proven that it did). There is no question that those that did PEDs would have an effect on the game.
1
His lack of enlightenment was typical of a less-enlightened era.
However: When my (then) beloved Yanks made it to the ’75 series, and got quietly swept by the Reds, I think I remember Rose not even think about stopping at first on routine singles. Just challenging the Yanks with every single. He KILLED me. And in retrospect, that was hard-nosed, badass baseball at the highest level, by the man who would get more hits than Ty Cobb.
However: When my (then) beloved Yanks made it to the ’75 series, and got quietly swept by the Reds, I think I remember Rose not even think about stopping at first on routine singles. Just challenging the Yanks with every single. He KILLED me. And in retrospect, that was hard-nosed, badass baseball at the highest level, by the man who would get more hits than Ty Cobb.
7
It was the 1976 World Series .
1
Thanks. Remember that debacle lol? I guess it was good if you were a yankee hater or a reds fan.
Pete Rose should not be given the satisfaction of "knowing" he was elected to go into the Baseball Hall of Fame. After he passes away he should be elected into the BH of F. He should continue to be banned from baseball. Not only is he a cheater he has continued to lie about what he actually did.
1
If the owners, Commissioners, and Hall of Fame were as corrupt as Pete Rose, baseball would be a much cleaner game.
Ditto for Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
Ditto for Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
8
Rose didn't juice. He bet on his team to win. Big difference.
7
@ David DeBenedetto - Unfortunately a manager who bets on a single major league game may not have his interests (in the bet) and his team's interests (a successful season) in alignment. Baseball is different than other sports in that sometimes you just have to not make all the possible moves to try to pull out a win in a given game in order to have a much better chance of succeeding in the medium or long haul.
Reread, David. Steve is defending Rose.
wrong, Wrong, WRONG. Maybe they should pin a medal on that FSU halfback who a attacked a woman. He gambled on baseball. End of story.
2
wish he'd just go away.
9
The best baseball player that ever lived !!
5
as a man, he couldn't tie lyman bostock's shoelaces~
1
At the All Star game, MLB will present Rose with the coveted "Say It Ain't So" Award for carrying on the ethical standards of Shoeless Joe Jackson. Rose agreed to accept the award once Fox contributed a $50 honorarium.
6
Pete's contribution to the All-Star game will be to set the betting line.
5
Well a well-written story. And the tone, equal parts respectful of Rose's achievements on the field and subtly contemptible of his activities off, was perfect. The last paragraph, too, came close to satisfying my curiosity of whether Rose does these clownish roadshows to stay close to baseball, an institution/game he obviously loves, despite violating its cardinal rule, or because he needs the cash. It sounds like he's making a small fortune based on the price list provided and the frequency at which he signs things -- anything. But who knows, maybe it goes straight to his bookie.
I'm old enough to have watched him play. I never cared for his antics. I think his hustle, running to first after a walk, slamming the ball into the turf, barreling into opposing players with no concern for his or their health, was the symptom of a hyperactivity disorder, rather than strength of character or a dedicated work ethic. I could care less if he's ever reinstated and have no problem with a lifetime ban. The man violated the only rule in baseball that comes with a lifetime penalty, one that's been in place since 1919/1920. Bottom line is that he knew what he was risking but gambled it away anyway. Not every offense deserves a second chance.
I'm old enough to have watched him play. I never cared for his antics. I think his hustle, running to first after a walk, slamming the ball into the turf, barreling into opposing players with no concern for his or their health, was the symptom of a hyperactivity disorder, rather than strength of character or a dedicated work ethic. I could care less if he's ever reinstated and have no problem with a lifetime ban. The man violated the only rule in baseball that comes with a lifetime penalty, one that's been in place since 1919/1920. Bottom line is that he knew what he was risking but gambled it away anyway. Not every offense deserves a second chance.
14
The irony is that the absolute necessity to adhere to "the only rule" is so that gamblers are assured of an honest bet. Gamblers have always been intertwined with baseball. Some may have been a little disappointed when Rafael Palmeiro et al. suddenly found the extra pep to homer late to break up their five team parlays. But since the offense and defense both were juicing, the gaming was considered fair.
2
A PROVEN liar, as just confirmed recently by evidence that he bet on games WHILE managing...
I feel besleazed just reading about this low-life. Time for a shower!
I feel besleazed just reading about this low-life. Time for a shower!
6
New info says he bet when he was still playing (the last two years) - betting while a manager was already known... Now the question would be if he ever bet against his team, which would be bad, but Pete was never the type to throw a game. I hope he makes it to the Hall of Fame. No one will ever beat that hits record - maybe because pitchers are tougher these days - but he did it the old fashioned way with brute force and talent.
I just saw him and got an autographed baseball in O'Fallon - didn't tell him (or realize it at the time) but he's the only baseball player I ever wanted to meet... He's 15 years older than me and one of the first non-Cardinal players I remember when I started watching baseball at age 7 or 8. I just figured out that was a couple years after he first started and he must've been 22 or 23 years old.
I just saw him and got an autographed baseball in O'Fallon - didn't tell him (or realize it at the time) but he's the only baseball player I ever wanted to meet... He's 15 years older than me and one of the first non-Cardinal players I remember when I started watching baseball at age 7 or 8. I just figured out that was a couple years after he first started and he must've been 22 or 23 years old.
1
He may be a complete doofus but he will always be in my hall of fame. The big red machine was awesome and he was a big part of that era. Gamblers are idiots but that's human nature.
2
Which team did he bet on ?
There's a paper trail of course, but Pete, like all gamblers, probably bet on the favorites. He associated with gamblers and should be forgotten.
1