Ive noticed many readers do not know the history between DR and Haiti. Haiti was responsible for the Dominican Republic gaining its freedom from Spain. One part of the island was ruled by France, the other, Spain. They also share a common ancestry as descendants of African slaves.
4
I Think that the DR and the US should have an open border policy with illegal immigrants There is a dirty, negative campaign to discredit the DR. The only county that's carrying out mass deportation is the US. The Barrack Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants than any other administration in the history of the USA. There is a lot of support for the Haitians that are leaving illegally in the DR, as long as those Haitians don't go illegally to their counties. That include the US, Canada, France and the Caribbean islands. What everybody fail to realize is that the misery of the Haitians people is the responsibility of the Haitians government and the world powers that have always exploited them.
3
While we need to sympathize with the growing problem of refugees and their offspring, worldwide, we must also be wary of demonizing the Dominican Republic in trying to protect the best interests of its own people, and their limited resources. Before we embark on a holier-than-though crusade against the Dominican government, we should examine the similarly strict requirements for citizenship enforced by such countries as France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, to name but a few. The bottom line is that citizenship is not a right- it is a privilege conferred on some - within the framework of customs, laws, and constitutions of the countries involved. A country has both the right and the inherent responsibility to control its borders. John Lennon sang wistfully that we should "Imagine there's no countries, It isn't hard to do". However until that day comes, when the concept of countries and borders are but a memory, we must face up to the often harsh and difficult realities of the world as it is...
5
The world now has the tremendous number of Muslims boat people trying to get into Europe. They go through awful suffering in their determination to live in, but not adapt to, European civilization. But please note that NONE of them is attempting to re-settle in the fabulously oil rich, extremely religious Muslim Arab countries. Anyone ever though why?
9
International law states all sovereign states have the right to decide who can enter their country and deport those who enter illegally. I live in Mexico and the Mexican government is quite strict about illegals living and working here, which is their right. The Dominican Republic is simply exercising this same right.
9
It is ironic because Puerto Rico has been flooded with Dominicans, they have been entering the Island illegally 24/7. It is happening as we speak. But have the audacity to complain when it happens to their island.?
4
All illegal Dominican immigrants in Puerto Rico are deported when caught! They get deported 24/7!
4
Riico, wake up and smell the coffe. Puerto Rico is bankrupt and just announced it will not be able to pay its debts. Puerto Rican debt is junk. Dominicans stoped flooding Puerto Rico in the late 90's partially due to strict vigilance by the US Coast Guard and improving living conditions in the Dom Rep. Most of the boat people flooding Puerto Rico nowadays are Cubans and Haitians (departing from the Dom Rep in small boats). The Cubans are granted residency and the Haitians turned back in less than 48 hours.
5
Overpopulation leading to environmental catastrophe? These photos starkly illustrates the border between the two countries. DR on right, Haiti on left. One of the worst examples of deforestation on the planet. http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=2640
4
You cannot talk of Haiti without talking about the fact that this is a country that has been so brutalized and practically raped for the last 215 years since the Haitian revolution. The Haitian revolution was an inspiration to other anti-colonialist revolutions throughout latin america. Today latin america, after centuries of obsessing with white supremecism spits in Haiti's face.
Most conversations about Haiti are completely decontextualized such that people are left with the impression and eventually the absolute belief that Haiti's problems are entirely self made. The questions are never asked what exactly is the global philanthropic community achieving in Haiti. The red cross Bill Clinton what are these people achieving, how exactly are they working with the Haitian people and the Haitian government to make that country a better place.
Most conversations about Haiti are completely decontextualized such that people are left with the impression and eventually the absolute belief that Haiti's problems are entirely self made. The questions are never asked what exactly is the global philanthropic community achieving in Haiti. The red cross Bill Clinton what are these people achieving, how exactly are they working with the Haitian people and the Haitian government to make that country a better place.
5
Japan doesn't not give people of ethnic Korean descent full citizenship or the rights equal of ethnic Japanese. Even the Koreans who've present in Japan for centuries. Nobody talks about this why exactly? Because Japan is special how exactly? Japan's open racism/rabid nationalism is somehow an exotic cultural thing. The world's opinion is full of double and triple standards.
10
The New York Times would do a great service if it investigated the access to birth control in countries like Haiti. I notice the one of the people endangered of being deported has a family with four children in Haiti. The question I have is why do people have children before they are in a position to support them? How available is birth control in counties which produce large numbers of migrants?
10
Haiti and the Dominican Republic are both Catholic countries, despite what you may have otherwise heard about Haiti
Reportage on other countries' migration struggles and efforts to enforce the rule of law is enlightening. The Times, and thus we readers, can discuss these matters at a calm remove, free of the emotional baggage we inevitably have talking about our own country.
The DR can be replaced with "the US," and Haitian with "undocumented migrants," throughout the article, and some of the same problems and solutions come into focus.
The DR can be replaced with "the US," and Haitian with "undocumented migrants," throughout the article, and some of the same problems and solutions come into focus.
3
Imagine the united states and Protorico do the same thing to Dominicans would look very bad, Dominican republic people stands up against the Danilo's government racist apartheid deportation of Haitian decents. Stands up against racism it's only ignorant people who hates other people base on the color of their skin.
Stands up prove to the world that you Dominicans not all of you are racist or inty Haitian's.
Stands up prove to the world that you Dominicans not all of you are racist or inty Haitian's.
1
Mr. Michael Arth your assessment of Haiti is incorrect: Haiti has never been known as the pearl of the Antilles, it has always been a very poor country and as a matter of fact it's the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere and the reasons are many not only overpopulation. The Dominican Republic is also a poor nation and can not and should not be condemned for trying to control immigration. Every sovereign nation does it
8
The Island of Jamaica was known as the Pearl of the Antilles
Very heartbreaking to read! Imagine being uprooted from everything you knew and worked for and then being thrown into a strange unknown land and into an unknown future. Please UN do something about it now! I particularly feel sad for those elderly men and women who vested their youth and do not have the privilege of bodily strength to tide the unsecure new country.
This is first and foremost an overpopulation problem, not an attitude problem on the part of its neighbors. Haiti, once known as "The Pearl of the Antilles," is the size of Vermont, but it has 11 million people, not counting the millions of Haitians who have fled to the U.S. and other countries. Vermont's population is 625,000 and it has nearly zero population growth, with a median annual family income of $52,000. Haiti's annual per capita GDP is $850. Seventy-Five percent of Vermont's forests are intact but Haiti's once verdant landscape is denuded. As a result, Haitians have fled into the overcrowded capital, where the shantytowns are subject to lethal earthquakes and hurricanes, which have killed hundreds of thousands in recent years. Similar overpopulation-related tragedies are befalling Sub-Saharan Africa.
The U.N. now projects the African continent to quadruple in population in this century. With the coming "end of work" due to automation, we do not need more young people (or immigrants) to take over jobs. Instead we need to give incentives to those in developing countries in the form of birth credits to stop population growth. Then we can much more effectively help lift those poor, suffering people out of poverty.
The U.N. now projects the African continent to quadruple in population in this century. With the coming "end of work" due to automation, we do not need more young people (or immigrants) to take over jobs. Instead we need to give incentives to those in developing countries in the form of birth credits to stop population growth. Then we can much more effectively help lift those poor, suffering people out of poverty.
11
We need more analysis like this. Are people from failed, over-populated, ruined places entitled to run to DR, USA, Europe or Australia and over-populate them too? Great Britain, the size of Michigan, now has 60 million people and is growing by 650,000--all from migrants. Frightening.
9
Doesn't China (1.5 billion) and India (1.2 billion) have populations Larger than that of the entire African continent (1.1 billion)? If you ask me, overpopulation is mainly a problem in Asia and tropical countries rather than an African problem. If Europe's Population is 700 Million, and Africa is 3-4 times that size, I would expect the population to be allowed to grow at least to 2.5 Billion.
That said, CIA World Factbook 2015 states that Haiti's growth rate is 1.08 vs The Dominican republic's growth rate of 1.25. Dominican Republic is growing faster than Haiti. In 2015, 1 Biilion people around the world are currently in Transit and migrating looking for better jobs. This in it of itself is a humanitarian crisis. World leaders should have a sit down and find ways to promote growth in those disadvantaged countries so that migrants won't be forced to emigrate across borders. Sadly no one is thinking beyond their own national borders.
That said, CIA World Factbook 2015 states that Haiti's growth rate is 1.08 vs The Dominican republic's growth rate of 1.25. Dominican Republic is growing faster than Haiti. In 2015, 1 Biilion people around the world are currently in Transit and migrating looking for better jobs. This in it of itself is a humanitarian crisis. World leaders should have a sit down and find ways to promote growth in those disadvantaged countries so that migrants won't be forced to emigrate across borders. Sadly no one is thinking beyond their own national borders.
4
Family planning is desperately need in both countries. A small island simply cannot accommodate the needs of an exploding population. Will people ever figure that out?
11
The Dominican Republic is not overpopulated by any stretch of the imagination. You must be referring to Haiti, 1/4 of the island of Hispaniola.
3
To deny citizenship on the basis of birth goes against all modern practices, places the Dominican Republic in the trashbin of countries that deny rights to their citizens, and opens doors to a country's dissolution via racism and hatred, as well as to persecution, scapegoating, and ethnic cleansing.
It is unconscionable that a country in the Americas could make those monstrous decisions that fly in the face of all basis of legality created since the Age of Reason. The Dominican Republic must change its ways and its Courts show contriteness and repentance.
Otherwise, the country should be ostracized just as at some point Burma was, and as is North Korea. To engage in near ethnic-cleansing, in removing citizenship based on birth, these are all practices not permissible in the modern community of nations.
It is unconscionable that a country in the Americas could make those monstrous decisions that fly in the face of all basis of legality created since the Age of Reason. The Dominican Republic must change its ways and its Courts show contriteness and repentance.
Otherwise, the country should be ostracized just as at some point Burma was, and as is North Korea. To engage in near ethnic-cleansing, in removing citizenship based on birth, these are all practices not permissible in the modern community of nations.
6
That's not true. I find the DR's actions in this case dubious, but citizenship by birth alone is an extremely rare exception to the global standard. The most common practice is that the child assumes the status of the parent(s).
5
85% of countries in the world is the Dominican model. Read some more please.
7
You are quite ignorant with respect to citizenship by birth ("jus solis"). Only the US and Canada grant UNCONDITIONAL "jus solis"............
5
What the Dominicans are doing to others is exactly what they don't want to be done to them. New York City is swamped with Dominican immigrants. And they desperately migrate illegally to Puerto Rico, too. Then they treat others as if they are invading their country when they do the same in the US and Puerto Rico. And they are desperate to leave the poverty in the Dominican Republic. They need to get over their denial that they are just as poor as Haiti.
15
Haiti patriots say to all Dominicans imagine Americans and Portoricans were giving the same treatment to Dominicans how bad they would look as a nation?
If the Dominican people are not racist or UN human they should stands up with the Haitian's and say no to the Danilo's government who us the Haitian migration situation and order to take the Dominican people's attention on his government corruptions.
Haiti patriots are united FADH.
If the Dominican people are not racist or UN human they should stands up with the Haitian's and say no to the Danilo's government who us the Haitian migration situation and order to take the Dominican people's attention on his government corruptions.
Haiti patriots are united FADH.
JXG, what swamping are you referring to? Homeland Security doesn't even list Dominicans in the top ten of illegals in the US, while China, the Phillipines and Korea are on that list. Moreover, of the top five countries sending immigrants to the US legally, the DR is #5. Just as poor as Haiti? Invading the country? Your hatred is shining through. Why don't you be honest and tell us why you dislike Dominicans. As for Puerto Rico, the population is decreasing because of the economy, so I'm sure they would welcome anyone coming to work. I love some dude from Athens GA complaining about Dominicans in NYC, I'm sure you went to Washington Heights or the Bronx in the 60s and early 70s before the Dominicans arrived and turned it into a prosperous community. When people hate, they see hate everywhere. Dominicans don't hate Haitians, they know and live with them everyday. This is a political issue, stoking fears -- remember Haiti invaded and occupied the DR for 22 years -- just like the GOP does in this country. As for racism, an American calling a Dominican a racist is an absolute joke. Dominicans come in all colors. This is political and maybe a bit cultural, but not racist.
4
90% of Dominican immigrants in the U.S are legal immigrants. Look at statistics please. 95% of Haitians in D.R are illegal immigrants. Read some more please.
4
In other words, biblical teachings abut brotherly love and compassion ultimately are not to be adhered to when all is said and done.
Thought so.
Thought so.
2
This policy is purely racist and xenophobic.
11
No, this policy is to protect the legitimate citizens of a poor country from having to do with less because illegal aliens have invaded their sovereign nation. ",,, the threat of being seized has led more than 31,000 Haitians to leave on their own, ... opting to cart their belongings across the border rather than risk losing everything in a sudden deportation." How wonderful that the threat of enforcing laws has the desired result! Would that America would strongly enforce our EXISTING EXCELLENT IMMIGRATION LAWS to such good effect!
11
hatian always are the victim, right? the fact is the rich country dont wants them then RD is racist because is trying to control the illegal immigration ?
10
deRuiter, we are not talking about weapons or machines or other inanimate things.
These are people, including children, who, according to news reports, have been held in horrific conditions.
The uphold-immigration-law-at-all-costs crowd really is in some serious need for reflection, given the religious teachings it puts on parade commands compassion, and given the fact that, at least here, it is willing to usurp the law even when the SCOTUS upholds it.
So much for consistency.
Balbino is exactly right.
These are people, including children, who, according to news reports, have been held in horrific conditions.
The uphold-immigration-law-at-all-costs crowd really is in some serious need for reflection, given the religious teachings it puts on parade commands compassion, and given the fact that, at least here, it is willing to usurp the law even when the SCOTUS upholds it.
So much for consistency.
Balbino is exactly right.
I think the Dominican government has dealt with this migration crisis in a systematic and humane way. The government first registered hundreds of thousands of illegal Haitians, has provided transportation for many of them to leave and will soon deport those who remain illegally in the country. Is this is not a reasonable way of dealing with the situation, then what could be a better way? There have probably been some irregularities in the implementation of this immigration policy, but the Dominican government has handled this crisis well.
Now, imagine that I am wrong, and let’s assume that the Dominican Republic could take in all the undocumented Haitians that are in the country. Still, my friend, some key questions to solve this issue will remain unanswered: Is the Dominican Republic economically equipped to receive such influx of Haitians? Is the US or any powerful country willing to give the Dominican government millions of dollars to help Dominicans shoulder the precarious situation of the Haitian nation, a burden that nobody wants to deal with, a burden that has not been significantly lightened by the millions of dollars donated before and after the earthquake in Haiti in 2010? Will there ever be a sustainable solution to the Haitian migration crisis if there is no political and social stability in Haiti? I would like to hear the answers to these questions. Those who naively accuse Dominicans of being racists are welcome to participate.
Now, imagine that I am wrong, and let’s assume that the Dominican Republic could take in all the undocumented Haitians that are in the country. Still, my friend, some key questions to solve this issue will remain unanswered: Is the Dominican Republic economically equipped to receive such influx of Haitians? Is the US or any powerful country willing to give the Dominican government millions of dollars to help Dominicans shoulder the precarious situation of the Haitian nation, a burden that nobody wants to deal with, a burden that has not been significantly lightened by the millions of dollars donated before and after the earthquake in Haiti in 2010? Will there ever be a sustainable solution to the Haitian migration crisis if there is no political and social stability in Haiti? I would like to hear the answers to these questions. Those who naively accuse Dominicans of being racists are welcome to participate.
25
95 years+ of Haitian discrimination & bias in the DR Is based on the history of slavery, much like that in the US. The Dominicans want to be perceived as whiter than the Haitians, when in reality are of the same racial mix. As ferociously as Trujillo tried to genetically alter the complexions (accepting large groups of WWII Jewish refuges) of the population he didn't succeed. He just instilled his xenophobia in the population. His mother was HAITIAN! Jandj please be better informed before making sweeping judgmental comments. DR history is ugly.
4
yes shirls you are right about DR history is ugly you also forgot to mentioned that Haiti invaded three times and controlled it for more than 22 years. You seem to FORGET that. As a Dominican of mix races I would give my life to save the DR. is not about color and poverty as you put it. there is a big miss trust and hatred as well. they hate us as much as we hate them simple put.
6
Coupled with the reality of gross over-population--countries are doubling in population in 25 years!--is the reality of the "end of work." The Atlantic Monthly's cover story addresses the fact that computerization is dramatically reducing the number of workers needed. Let's all agree that reducing the world population is necessary. That means getting free birth control into the hands of every person.
22
Here is a great illustration of the propensity for a people to want a sense of superiority over another. The DR is not in great shape economically, perhaps that is the root of this issue. For me, it is the same old tired false sense of feeling superior to someone. In this case the lines are blurred, so it becomes one of proving place of birth. How sad! We are back to Trujillo and his ways. This happens far too often.
10
The woes of the Haitian people in the Dominican Republics started in the 1930s during the reign of the brutal dictator Rafael Trujillo. Trujillo himself who was of Haitian descent hated haitians and treated the Dominican Republic's Haitian migrants with disdain and orchestrated the massacre of thousand of Haitians in 1937. Trujillo brought Europeans to whiten the Dominican Republics as he hatted blacks to such a degree.
It is also important to note that Trujillo was a puppet dictator of the United States. With this terrible legacy President Danilo Medina should learn from the lessons of history but sadly History often repeats itself
It is also important to note that Trujillo was a puppet dictator of the United States. With this terrible legacy President Danilo Medina should learn from the lessons of history but sadly History often repeats itself
6
Trujillo hated blacks and his Haitian roots to such a degree he imported skin lightening treatments from France for his personal use!
2
Racism that calls to mind the impossibly awful expelling of Armenians from Turkey and subsequent such advents. I am saddened beyond sad.
5
This sounds like a great project for Charles Rangel to sink his teeth into- Have at it Charlie- Let us know what you find!
1
Should we now find all the Dominicans in Washington Heights that are here undocumented and deport them? And those in South Florida too? If it works for the Dominican government, then it should apply to the US too.
It is perfectly right for the government of the Dominican Republic to set it rules on immigration. But they must accept the consequences of those actions where others might find offensive.
It is perfectly right for the government of the Dominican Republic to set it rules on immigration. But they must accept the consequences of those actions where others might find offensive.
9
the us already does that,in 2013 the us deported more than 430 thousand undocumented immigrants and in 2014 more than 300 thousand.talk about hipocrisy.
5
What's the saying? Figures don't lie, but liars figure?
Obama is now counting Mexicans returned at the border as deportees. They weren't previously counted. If you make it 50 miles inland you are scott-free. The US takes in more immigrants than everybody combined. That's why we have a huge labor surplus that has destroyed the middle class.
Obama is now counting Mexicans returned at the border as deportees. They weren't previously counted. If you make it 50 miles inland you are scott-free. The US takes in more immigrants than everybody combined. That's why we have a huge labor surplus that has destroyed the middle class.
9
That's nonsense. Immigrants do the work nobody else wants to do, at low wages. If what you're saying were correct the farms in Alabama would be filled with middle class Americans picking crops and going back to their split levels.
Yes, there is a problem with businesses that encourage illegals to work for below-minimum wages. Yes, we should do a better job of controlling our borders and create a formal guest worker program.
But to blame immigrants for the demise of the middle class is ridiculous.
Yes, there is a problem with businesses that encourage illegals to work for below-minimum wages. Yes, we should do a better job of controlling our borders and create a formal guest worker program.
But to blame immigrants for the demise of the middle class is ridiculous.
1
This is a terrible, sad situation repeatedly happening all over the world. There are billions of displaced people fearful for their lives due to strife, poverty, natural disasters, drug gangs or terrified of murderous, corrupt governments. But the saddest part is they are not welcome anywhere. Frankly they have nowhere to go. You cannot blame them for wanting to take refuge to keep their body and soul together. And you cannot blame the countries which don't let them in because it disrupts their social fabric, takes away their citizens' jobs and busts their schools and healthcare systems. If the rich Western Countries can limit them or not allow them, how can you expect a poor country like the Dominican Republic or India? Jordan and Lebanon are bursting at the seams. Israel has put the Palestinians in a ghetto-like huge refugee camp called Gaza, Italy is thwarting the efforts of North Africans to flee, Australia has it's own way of keeping them away and our country, built on immigrant's successes is also stretched thin by the exodus from it's southern borders. This has become a real vexing humanitarian crisis globally. Improving the conditions in their own country would be the ideal but that is an impossibility. And so this human tragedy continues. However, it would be hypocritical of us to be judgmental about the Dominican Republic.
10
Seems like most everyone in the world understands the concept of limits except for Democrats in the United States. Lifeboats all over the world are threatened. There are far too many people in the water.
7
Looks like there will be room in the DR for undocumented Dominicans deported from the US--should we send them home?
10
Probably no more than 100,000 undocumented Dominicans in the US......You want to guess how many do we have here ?? Cost - Benefit analisis ....Do you want one or two Haities on your backyard ??
2
any undocumented person living in any country shouldn't complain when the risk of deportation knocks their door.
10
People are being deported from the US everyday. Of course the degree of sophistication of the forces doing this is high. It's the infamous knock at the door in the middle of the night. They get deported one or two at the time, no fanfare, but in the end it totals millions of deportees. A great oily piece of machinery. And Obama? he's the King on deporting people. They don't announce here they are about to deport hundreds of thousands, they just do it. And the masses go happily about their business. A little poor nation tries to do something similar and the Hypocrites crawl from under their collective rock full of false compassion. But the powers that be have us where they want us.
2
Very disconcerting. Two peoples, totaling 20 million, sharing an island, and no empathy or compassion to be found. Scale it 350 times, and that's what we have as humans sharing this small planet.
10
how much you contribute to DR today to deal with this problem, really?
2
Time for the Donald, in front of the Tea Party, to find the solution!
3
The Haitian State not documented its national poor, neither wanted to nor cares about its own people. They only want to continue receiving millions of Euros in so-called AIDS, which never reach the poor.
Now, the Dominican Republic recognized some 55,000 people of Haitian descent who is delivering your documents, based on their own laws.
Mention an only country that documents to foreigners who can not demonstrate who they are, where they come from, etc. This is a kind of security problem and is precisely what the Dominican Republic is doing: organizing the House, based on minimum requirements which applicants should fill. That do not fill them, simply or it is welcome and should go to their country of origin.
Now, the Dominican Republic recognized some 55,000 people of Haitian descent who is delivering your documents, based on their own laws.
Mention an only country that documents to foreigners who can not demonstrate who they are, where they come from, etc. This is a kind of security problem and is precisely what the Dominican Republic is doing: organizing the House, based on minimum requirements which applicants should fill. That do not fill them, simply or it is welcome and should go to their country of origin.
2
Did you read the articles? The barriers created by Dominican officials are real and often purposely insurmountable.
7
Quoting Wiki: "Jus soli" (Latin: right of the soil) is the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship. As an unconditional basis for citizenship, it is the predominant rule in the Americas, but is rare elsewhere. It should be noted that no European country follows Jus Soli. Even more interesting, Haiti does not follow Jus Soli. Yes, everyone is up in arms about the DR not recognizing children born in the DR as Dominican citizens but Haiti doesn't either. So, when you elect to boycott the DR, remember no trips to Paris, London, Rome, Venice, ......
18
Ummm, no.mmpeople are upm in arm because the Dominican Republic changed its constitution and applied it the new rule reoactively to 1929. The DR can make its rules but it needs to follow its own laws and international convention to which it is a signatory.
And I forgot to mention, Port au Prince, as I'm sure many of those boycotting Punta Cana were planning on going to Haiti instead, in support of the people.
3
Thanks for stating it so eloquently.
this is a VERY sad process - of asking people to "get out"- that as we do see, is affecting the whole world. I do hope that we Dominicans follow a humane and fair process. Immigration laws need to be imparted on ALL immigrants, not only Haitians (i.e. Italians, Germans...).
this is a VERY sad process - of asking people to "get out"- that as we do see, is affecting the whole world. I do hope that we Dominicans follow a humane and fair process. Immigration laws need to be imparted on ALL immigrants, not only Haitians (i.e. Italians, Germans...).
1
Since the arrival of digital TV, we no longer watch American news, which emphasizes important topics like Big Pharma products, inter-spliced with short pieces about entertainers and sports. Instead, we mostly watch foreign, from-the-source news, in English. Among the best in are NHK Japan and France24. And what we have learned from watching in-depth weekly reports featuring commentators from all side of the debate is that so-called illegal immigrant communities are a problem, for the immigrants as well as the host countries, around the world, even in relatively closed countries like Israel (closed in that only Jews can easily migrate there legally). Also what we have learned is that no countries are banding together to try to come up with solutions. Instead, each country, even within the European Union, is essentially going it alone.
2
In case you're wondering what the worst news program is, it's RT (formerly Russia Today). Almost everything they say about the U.S. is true, but they, of course, never investigate Russia's government.
The most boring news programs is RTE from Ireland. Yes, we are all sad that Mrs. O'Leary's cow got free, kicked the lantern, and burned down a barn.
The slickest programs are those run by the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. You would never know who the owners of the programs were by listening to them as they are very slick.
Of course, almost all countries in the world, including Ethiopia and Vietnam, broadcast programs around the world in English, while no U.S. channels do so, with the exception of the State Department's fair and balanced Radio Free (fill in the blank for the region).
The most boring news programs is RTE from Ireland. Yes, we are all sad that Mrs. O'Leary's cow got free, kicked the lantern, and burned down a barn.
The slickest programs are those run by the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. You would never know who the owners of the programs were by listening to them as they are very slick.
Of course, almost all countries in the world, including Ethiopia and Vietnam, broadcast programs around the world in English, while no U.S. channels do so, with the exception of the State Department's fair and balanced Radio Free (fill in the blank for the region).
3
Amazing how we so piously yelled at the Soviets for their fences. Keep people in, keep people out, it's just a flip of the coin. Now that the borders are open the superior schools of the Soviet System has flooded the world with labor better equipped to deal, than with those born within the countries. Russian Artists and Chinese Artists are the stars of American theaters. Russian computer experts out compete Americans in Silicon valley. And yet we brag about our graduate schools where foreigners regularly out compete Americans again. What a mess. And of course there is the microcosm in the Middle East with massive fences for many reasons. "Good fences make good neighbors?" I don't think so. I always thought that America was special with open borders. Now we just seem as bickering and partisan as the next banana republic.
2
Absolutely, Russia is definitely a country to replicate. NOT!
3
I see little difference between Putin's Russia, Communist China, and the vision of U.S. Republicans and Wall Street.
3
you do realize there are 7 billion people in this world, and only 300 million of them living in the US, dont you? So how many people you are willing to take into your house today?
2
This talk of 'sovereign rights' -- let any country define citizenship however it likes -- is deeply disturbing to me. These people have lived and worked in the DR for generations, and it's utterly unfair to deport them. Until we have real, enforceable *human* rights that supersede any nation's sovereign rights, we'll never have global justice.
7
We should also have globally enforceable population control policies before all the Earth is ruined.
13
You are yet another victim to the half-truths and misinformation that are loudly playing out in the media on this issue, fiercely being exploited by Haitian and foreign NGOs' interests, with the ultimate goal of creating a logistical momentum to virtually erase the border between the two countries. The DR would be dissolved from within under the weight of a gigantic influx of additional waves of illegal migration from Haiti, a failed state where nothing seems to be take hold under a leadership mired in incompetency and the most extreme levels of corruption.
Hundreds of thousands of Haitian migrants with many years in the country and established roots have been granted amnesty to stay. How many more in addition to the 2-plus million (actual numbers, not what is being reported) will be needed then to turn the DR into a Rwanda-style ethnic powder keg?
Hundreds of thousands of Haitian migrants with many years in the country and established roots have been granted amnesty to stay. How many more in addition to the 2-plus million (actual numbers, not what is being reported) will be needed then to turn the DR into a Rwanda-style ethnic powder keg?
8
More than 75 % of undocumented workers living in the Dom Rep do not have documents from their country of origin. So where do we start ? " Please write your name, last name, place of birth and date of birth in this piece of paper and come back in 2 days to pick up your Dominican green card ? " The Dominican official taking this application only knows that he or she has a breathing living human being in front of him/her and could verify ONLY gender, weight and height. Could that applicant be from a French speaking Muslim African country ?? How do we know whether that applicant has joined ISI or not ?? Then there is another group of applicants that will claim to have been born in the Dom Rep and their papers (national ID cards and passports were not renewed by the authorities) Here the authorities, under international pressure, have disregarded the constitution and started last week to "return" Dominican citizenship to these group of people. I said disregard because when upon auditing many of these cases it became clear undocumented parents lied about their status so that their children born in the Dom Rep would get a birth certificate. Now there is a third group that claims to have been born in the Dom Rep (people of all ages) but have no documents to prove it. Again, under international pressure, the authorities have said " okay bring 7 witnesses and if not born at a hospital please also bring the midwife to testify you were born in the Dom Rep " Is this for real ??
Haitians need to do the moral thing and leave.
13
But many of the humans the DR wishes to deport were born in the DR. The are not Haitians!
I agree that countries have aright to have secure borders and reasonable and enforced immigration policies but what is happening in the DR is very different.
I agree that countries have aright to have secure borders and reasonable and enforced immigration policies but what is happening in the DR is very different.
5
You think that leaving is moral? How is returning to a country that you've never set foot on moral? It galls me that people of color, who are better off economically but still poor, are trying to expel a group of people who racially and culturally are very similar but speak a different language. Colonialism did a number on people of color, especially Dominicans who are Blacker than me but have the nerve to say that they're Indian, which is a joke or even funnier Spanish. What's even more immoral is paying homage to Christopher Columbus while celebrating its independence from Haiti. As mentioned in an earlier article, maybe the Dominican Republic has a complex because unlike Haiti, it didn't gain its freedom from Europeans, but people who resembled them. It is also a crying shame that after all of the money that was provided to Haiti after the earthquake there is still a lack of infrastructure.
3
Justice, most people here would be prepared to change the semantic meaning of " in transit " written in our constitution and renew Dominican citizenship to those whose undocumented parents lied to Dominican officials so their children born in the Dom Rep would get their birth certificates, These are probably no more than 150,000. Could we then proceed to deport no about 650,000 undocumented workers (not claiming Dominican citizenship ??) Would the international community, the US, Canada, France and the UN allows to go that way ?? How soon ?? because now we are being told no MASSIVE deportations...what is massive ?? 5,000 per month ?? that is 60,000 a year....so it would take about 10 years to complete the process....would that be OKAY for the international community ?? do we need permission ?? authorization ???
For me the real eye opener is when one flies over the island. The Dominican side still has trees and green but as soon as you fly over the border trees are gone, green is gone, terrible erosion, a wasteland caused by insane overpopulation. Billions have been spent on Haiti to no effect. We need to make Haiti part of the US with US rules, laws and benefits. Most Haitians already are in the US. The rest would be glad to be integrated. The US is large and it will take a long time for the Haitians to fill it.
8
It is stupid to spend money any more money in or on Haiti.
The best things we could do for Haiti would be for each country to agree to take in a part of Haiti's population that is proportional to GNP so that the entire area called Haiti could be vacated, rested and restored.
NO other plan has any chance of succeeding.
The best things we could do for Haiti would be for each country to agree to take in a part of Haiti's population that is proportional to GNP so that the entire area called Haiti could be vacated, rested and restored.
NO other plan has any chance of succeeding.
3
Why just Haitians? Successive administrations have opened our sourthern borders and we all see how well that turned out! If anyone is responsible for the problems in Haiti, it is the French so let them deal with it.
3
Haiti's forests provided the furniture that France's kings and its rich people still sit on--it was denuded several centuries ago. And we still work to undermine farmer movements that struggle to create polycultures that would stop erosion, choosing instead to force Haitian farmers in to monoculture practices that will never restore surrounding nature. You're just repeating a tired, tired, ultimately racist refrain. Haiti paid France billions in 'reparations' for a century for the "loss" of its slaves, the main reason the country is so poor now--oh, and we supported Duvalier, the Haitian dictator, for decades.
Nowhere is the confused rhetoric and ideation of national sovereignty and selectivity more prominently and awkwardly on display than on the island of Hispaniola, where black Dominicans harbor racist sentiments toward black Haitians, and little or any idea of the wealth Haitian labor has created for Dominican landed interests. The poor on both sides of the border could shrug off the rich in both countries in a heartbeat, and create something far, far better.
Nowhere is the confused rhetoric and ideation of national sovereignty and selectivity more prominently and awkwardly on display than on the island of Hispaniola, where black Dominicans harbor racist sentiments toward black Haitians, and little or any idea of the wealth Haitian labor has created for Dominican landed interests. The poor on both sides of the border could shrug off the rich in both countries in a heartbeat, and create something far, far better.
4
I have mostly believed that the NY Times provides balanced coverage and, therefore, was flabbergasted by the omission of a very important fact from this article. A large number of the Haitian born who were not able to complete the process does not have any Haitian documentation such as a birth certificate. The Haitian government has not been either willing or able to provide their own citizens with documentation that would have helped them regularized their status in the Dominican Republic.
11
This is not documenting people without legal residency. The uproar is about retroactively removing the nationality who under the old constitution were born Dominicans. Indeed, many had papers which was later confiscated and revoked.
5
The world is heavily overpopulated and most of the population growth are from 3rd world countries. China is no longer a 3rd world nation which removes a billion from the most destitute conditions but South Asia and Africa quickly add back the billion and proceed to grow even more. By UN estimation, Africa will add 1.8 billion people by 2050 and reach 4.2 billion people by 2100, accounting for 40% of the world's population even though in 1950, Africa only accounts for 9% of the world's population.
Haiti and Dominican Republic share the same island but Haiti is far poorer and have far higher birth rate. Even with Haiti's higher child mortality rate its population is growing faster than DR. Unless DR closes its border, it will be as overpopulated and poor as Haiti. The same is true of Europe and East Asia which have big illegal African immigrants problem.
Haiti and Dominican Republic share the same island but Haiti is far poorer and have far higher birth rate. Even with Haiti's higher child mortality rate its population is growing faster than DR. Unless DR closes its border, it will be as overpopulated and poor as Haiti. The same is true of Europe and East Asia which have big illegal African immigrants problem.
35
lots of facts, no solutions. really helpful.
2
@dugggggg
Read the last two sentences. Close the border and uncontrolled population growth will resolve itself. No organism on this planet can growth indefinitely without encountering a population crash brought on by nature.
Now, human are smarter so as soon as the Haitian government realize there is no place to send their excess population, they would inact population control policies. If not, individual Haitian will stop having more kids on their own when they realize they don't have enough food to feed a huge family.
Read the last two sentences. Close the border and uncontrolled population growth will resolve itself. No organism on this planet can growth indefinitely without encountering a population crash brought on by nature.
Now, human are smarter so as soon as the Haitian government realize there is no place to send their excess population, they would inact population control policies. If not, individual Haitian will stop having more kids on their own when they realize they don't have enough food to feed a huge family.
6
@dugggggg - no solutions? How hard is it to extrapolate from pointing out that the problem is overpopulation and high birth rate to population control and reducing birth rate?
The Dominican constitution indicates that anyone born in that country, except those who are "in transit" and the children of diplomats, is a citizen of that country. How the Dominican Republic's Supreme court can construe people who came to work two or three generations ago to be "in transit" demonstrates their politicization and stupidity.
The only way to reverse this racist act is to hit the DR in their pocketbook: Boycott their all-inclusive resorts.
The only way to reverse this racist act is to hit the DR in their pocketbook: Boycott their all-inclusive resorts.
16
More than 30 British and German tourists were recently murdered in Tunisia.
Bummer. Sincerely. Condolences.
However, this illustrates why tourists will NEVER bring about change.
These northern European tourists could have taken their vacations in Portugal, Italy, Greece or Spain.
It would have been safer for these tourists (Tunisia is at war with ISIS and its allies).
But that would have cost the northern European tourists more.
And most northern Europeans don't really like southern Europeans.
E.g., as thousands of illegal immigrants poor across the Mediterranean into Spain, France, Italy and Greece, most northern European government are doing NOTHING to assist the southern governments.
So no, tourists will not "hit the DR in their pocketbook" by boycotting their resorts.
I personally would love to visit the DR, as well as Tunisia, but only if I can mingle in the streets with common people and learn about the culture and history. So I already boycott all all-inclusive resorts. But that means I can't go to many countries.
Bummer. Sincerely. Condolences.
However, this illustrates why tourists will NEVER bring about change.
These northern European tourists could have taken their vacations in Portugal, Italy, Greece or Spain.
It would have been safer for these tourists (Tunisia is at war with ISIS and its allies).
But that would have cost the northern European tourists more.
And most northern Europeans don't really like southern Europeans.
E.g., as thousands of illegal immigrants poor across the Mediterranean into Spain, France, Italy and Greece, most northern European government are doing NOTHING to assist the southern governments.
So no, tourists will not "hit the DR in their pocketbook" by boycotting their resorts.
I personally would love to visit the DR, as well as Tunisia, but only if I can mingle in the streets with common people and learn about the culture and history. So I already boycott all all-inclusive resorts. But that means I can't go to many countries.
5
It means DR's constitution, like the U.S. constitution, needs to be corrected as it was from a time before illegal immigration waves.
9
"...resentment born of crowded schools, competition for jobs and a beleaguered health care system. Locals note that the Dominican Republic is a poor country that can ill affford......."
Can the Dominican Republic afford latex? Overpopulation is both the DRs AND Haiti's BIGGEST problem.
"...resentment born of crowded schools, competition for jobs and a beleaguered health care system. Locals note that the Dominican Republic is a poor country that can ill affford......."
Can the Dominican Republic afford latex? Overpopulation is both the DRs AND Haiti's BIGGEST problem.
"...resentment born of crowded schools, competition for jobs and a beleaguered health care system. Locals note that the Dominican Republic is a poor country that can ill affford......."
16
Birth control is a sin.
Pope Francis has said so.
Abortion is murder.
Pope Francis said so.
A woman's place, in the eyes of God, is to bear as many children as she can. Pope Francis said so.
Pope Francis has said so.
Abortion is murder.
Pope Francis said so.
A woman's place, in the eyes of God, is to bear as many children as she can. Pope Francis said so.
11
Jon- and yet he says 'we' should do something about climate change ignoring the inconvenient truth that the edicts his church directs at poor Catholics are a big part of the problem.
7
Addressing climate change doesn't challenge church authority.
And addressing poverty, without empowering women as equals with men, is meaningless.
And addressing poverty, without empowering women as equals with men, is meaningless.
3
We human beings have cleverly and cynically and corruptly found every way possible to deny the evolutionary DNA genetic biological reality that there is only one East African origin human race that began 180-200, 000 years ago. This ugly escapade will not end until "Am I my brother's keeper?" is known and accepted by all as universally inhumane and immoral because every bell tolling for any human misery individually or as a group tolls for all of us. The tribes of Europe need to gaze into their own ethnic sectarian historical mirror.
2
What on earth does this have to do with Europe? The ties with Europe have been cut for centuries ... this has to do with economics.
12
And your point is????
5
Hold the Dominican Republic accountable for its failings and Haiti responsible for its own. Stop blaming other countries. It's time to hold people accountable for their own problems.
4
Sad that the Dominican Republic does the right thing by deporting illegal aliens in their country and the US under Barack and his ilk encourages more illegal immigration. I wonder what the people of San Francisco are thinking when their left-leaning coddling of illegals result in the deaths of its citizens and tourists?
What I don't understand is why a country which sent men to the moon cannot mimic the Dominican Republic and send all foreigners who violate US immigrations laws back to their homelands.
What I don't understand is why a country which sent men to the moon cannot mimic the Dominican Republic and send all foreigners who violate US immigrations laws back to their homelands.
25
Yes, did you know that Barack Obama has written a letter to each and every poor person in the world asking them to consider emigration illegally to the U.S.
Shocking!
Shocking!
4
In a covert way, he has.
1
I see a lot of misinform people here, the law is the law and that is what the Dominican Government is doing enforcing its immigration laws, no the Haitian government never helped in the pass their own in the way the Dominican Government is doing it, this article says "a Dominican husband who is going is going to loose his wife and children", read the law! I said to this, if he is Dominican so are his kids and is wife can get document and stay, this article is nothing but "freedom of Speech at its best", inform yourself in this subject before formulating an opinion.
9
"Prisons are built with stones of law, Brothels with bricks of religion." -William Blake.
Pope Francis, who visits the United States, must directly address the Dominican Republic's mixed African-European "brown racism" against black Haitians as an immoral factor in the Haitian mass deportation. If nothing else, his concern would educate Americans to the threat of this kind of "racism" in a spreading multi-cultural America. More importantly, it would raise the consciousness of the Dominicans themselves, at long last, to confront their "racist" values in this crisis. Indeed, Francis might even get the Roman Catholic Bishops and Cardinals in the United States who have been extremely vocal in criticizing our deportation of illegal immigrants here, to raise moral concerns over the DR's mass deportation? Haiti and the DR both are mostly Roman Catholic. And the religious diplomatic interests of the Church must be highly conflicted. But the Church's ethical position on racism in any form is not. The DR's mass Haitian deportation is wrong.
2
Can you say is wrong if illegal person is deported from US?. Dominican Republic has its own laws as far as I understand the government has not begun the mass deportation. You can not call "racist" to apply the law, in fact Dominican is the only country that has done more for Haiti than other nation with more money and better resources. I think you should go down to the border of Mexico and you can talk about other nation conflict. My recommendation is that you should go to DR ( $ 550 U.S) and you can have a better picture of the situation.
9
Speaking of racism, Haiti became independent and the new government had a first piece of business; the slaughter of thousands of whites and mixed race people. Is that not racism of the worst kind?
11
They changed the law and are applying it retroactively to people who have been living in the DR for decades. That is a distinction with a difference.
3
Food for thought. While the DR is busy deporting Haitians because they claim economic conditions are not conducive to accepting immigrants in their country, Dominicans keep arriving in rickety boats ("yolas") in Puerto Rico remaining there as illegal immigrants at a time when PR is not able to take care of even its own people. Many of those undocumented Dominican immigrants quite possibly end up moving to NY and other states with fake Puerto Rico i.d.'s. Does anyone care? Anyone listening?
29
Wanda, wake up and smell the coffe. Puerto Rico is bankrupt as Greece and just announced it will not be able to pay its debt. Dominicans stoped taking "yolas" to Puerto Rico in the late 90 due to strict vigilance by the US Coast Guard and improving living conditions in the Dom Rep. In fact a lot of Puerto Ricans have moved to the Dom Re recently.
4
Dominicans care about their country. Can you say the same for Puerto Rican and Americans who aren't kicking out illegals including Dominicans? If you don't care, why should the illegals?
5
Wanda, I think you should go to PR and see the situation all undocumented person that is arrested end up in an airplane back to Dominican Republic. The problem is not that people decide to take risky decision the problem is if the government of PR allows people stay there without proper documentation. Dominican government is trying to legalize people as they can. Have we legalize all undocumented people in the U.S.? the answer is not. DR is the only country that has support in terms of economics and terms of human suffering. Before and after the earthquake DR was the first one to arrive in Haiti. In the other hand, Haiti is a nation without laws and government that has not done anything to improve the condition of its citizens. DR has supply food and has taken undocumented people more than other nation. Have you seen what the Bahama's government has done with the illegal Haitian? the answer is the deport them but before that they put them in cage. You should have a better picture before you write your thoughts.
5
Haiti needs more austerity.
And more prisons (preferably privately-owned).
And a wall.
And more military spending.
And a "three strikes" law.
And more prisons (preferably privately-owned).
And a wall.
And more military spending.
And a "three strikes" law.
3
yeah, and get rid of the Education Departmment...
and the Transportation Department..
and uh...
ooops
and the Transportation Department..
and uh...
ooops
2
How about exercising some restraint and using birth control?
4
That's a sin.
Pope Francis said so.
Women must serve God and men by having men's babies.
Pope Francis said so.
Pope Francis said so.
Women must serve God and men by having men's babies.
Pope Francis said so.
3
Political control and and economic control can not be separated.
The concept that any person in the world, should be able to travel to, and work in, any country in the world, is the one of the basic tenants of communism.
The well know anthem, the "International", wildly popular during Bolshevik times, and still the song of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, expresses just this idea:
"Toilers from shops and fields united,
The union we of all who work:
The earth belongs to us, the workers"
It is a perfectly reasonable for anyone to support this idea - but it is equally reasonable that persons doing so, recognize that they are espousing communism.
When you remove economic controls, you remove political control. Removing political control breaks down borders and destroys nations; anyone advocating this, should have a good, tested replacement handy, because anarchy is not pretty.
The concept that any person in the world, should be able to travel to, and work in, any country in the world, is the one of the basic tenants of communism.
The well know anthem, the "International", wildly popular during Bolshevik times, and still the song of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, expresses just this idea:
"Toilers from shops and fields united,
The union we of all who work:
The earth belongs to us, the workers"
It is a perfectly reasonable for anyone to support this idea - but it is equally reasonable that persons doing so, recognize that they are espousing communism.
When you remove economic controls, you remove political control. Removing political control breaks down borders and destroys nations; anyone advocating this, should have a good, tested replacement handy, because anarchy is not pretty.
5
When the French were force out, a tiny minority of mulatto children of the French took over.
For 200+ years, the mulatto class has ruled Haiti, violently suppressing all opposition and democracy, owning everything in the country, but living mostly outside of the country.
It sounds like the perfect country...if one is a Wall Street banker, a GOP presidential candidate, or the member of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party.
For 200+ years, the mulatto class has ruled Haiti, violently suppressing all opposition and democracy, owning everything in the country, but living mostly outside of the country.
It sounds like the perfect country...if one is a Wall Street banker, a GOP presidential candidate, or the member of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party.
7
Which is it, then: anarchy or communism? I doubt you can define either of those terms.
2
"The concept that any person in the world, should be able to travel to, and work in, any country in the world, is the one of the basic tenants of communism."
Not a scholar on communism but I was taught that THE central tenant of communism was centralized, "public" control of a nations means of production.
So I don't think, logically, the argument that a person ought be able to travel to other nations and enjoy the same right to apply for private sector jobs as native citizens is the same thing as "espousing communism". It may not be a feasible, practical or desireable notion; but this practice of labeling any social or economic idea that one finds unpalatable "socialist" or "communist", is well past its "sell by" date.
Not a scholar on communism but I was taught that THE central tenant of communism was centralized, "public" control of a nations means of production.
So I don't think, logically, the argument that a person ought be able to travel to other nations and enjoy the same right to apply for private sector jobs as native citizens is the same thing as "espousing communism". It may not be a feasible, practical or desireable notion; but this practice of labeling any social or economic idea that one finds unpalatable "socialist" or "communist", is well past its "sell by" date.
Whether the nyt's gets it or not, it's readers, at least some of them, do. Over population is the number one problem facing the u.s and the rest of the world. The idea that we, or anybody else, can just continue to absorb the huge over supply of people being produced and it won't have any effect is insane. Politicians from the president down and dishonest business interests see easy votes and docile workers and hordes of consumers in these masses.
We need leaders in this country and the world who are interested in their own citizens first and the immigrants welfare second. Help other people solve their problems at home (starting with birth control) and put in place a way to sustainability for the longterm survival of the planet (again starting with lowering the human birth rate). Spreading the human population everywhere simply lowers the living standards and raises the misery level until the whole world is a mess. The nyt's and our so called leaders may not be able to work the math, but nature does. We ignore it at our own and the worlds peril.
We need leaders in this country and the world who are interested in their own citizens first and the immigrants welfare second. Help other people solve their problems at home (starting with birth control) and put in place a way to sustainability for the longterm survival of the planet (again starting with lowering the human birth rate). Spreading the human population everywhere simply lowers the living standards and raises the misery level until the whole world is a mess. The nyt's and our so called leaders may not be able to work the math, but nature does. We ignore it at our own and the worlds peril.
15
Many illegal Haitians (25,000) were murdered by DR President Trujillo some 80 years ago. They were like slaves then; no difference today. When you don't need slaves anymore just toss them. Is a global reality.
3
After the Haitian revolution in 1804, Haitian leaders REPEATEDLY invaded the eastern part of the island -still a colony from Spain- and systematically committed mass murder, rape and pillage the then poorer, less able ancestors of contemporary Dominicans in the first half of the 19th century. During the last event in these series, after crushing the Dominicans' own independence declaration attempt from Spain in 1821, they brutally occupied Dominicans' ancestral lands for 22 years with a systematic policy of ethnic and cultural cleansing. Let it be noted that Dominicans' long struggle for independence started in 1844 from Haitian oppression, not from Spain, and hence the long-standing mistrust and historical misgivings from Dominicans toward Haitians. The fact that Trujillo's massacre and crimes against Haitians took place more recently (in 1937) should not only obscure the very well-documented historical crimes of Haiti's leadership against Dominicans and their ancestors, but should educate outsiders on the long-standing apprehensions of Dominicans on seeing another 1821 in their homeland under the guise of massive, uncontrolled illegal Haitian immigration, and the desires of certain interests in seeing one single island-wide market of 20 million people.
1
They weren't illegal! They were invited by Trujllo to work cutting sugarcane. Haitian documents were confiscated to insure they remained until the harvest was over.
1
So what is Republican front-runner Donald Trump saying on this issue?
1
I know the the another GOP front-runner, Cuban-Canadian-American Ted Cruz, stands with the DR.
Of course, Hillary Clinton will say whatever she believes is in her own best interests.
Of course, Hillary Clinton will say whatever she believes is in her own best interests.
4
I recommend that we permit all destitute Haitians immigrate to Trump's neighborhood.
4
And the Canadian candidate Ted Cruz is speaking in whose interests? Please get real.
After reading this, I fail to understand how the U.S. immigration policy could be criticized by Latinos, especially from DR. In every country except the US, illegal entry is punishable.
14
What Haiti needs is more austerity.
I hear that is the solution to all problems.
I hear that is the solution to all problems.
4
As the author of the article alludes to, the problems described in this article are fueled by the insecurities of generalized poverty and economic disparity. Often lacking the intellectual tools, economic solutions and equal relationships that will hopefully lead to a more humane and collaborative understanding of the situation, people in Hispaniola have resorted to racial explanations and reactions that mostly reflect the intensity of economic insecurity and poor education. As a person who was born and raised in the Dominican Rep., and who later in life benefited from an American education and the comforts of a middle class living style, I have often wondered how different the situation would be if the Dominican Rep. and Haiti were economically developed? Would there even be a need for a political border and for the other delineations that define who we’ve become in reaction to poverty and the legacy of our colonial past?
5
Without borders, there can be no country. I beehooves any country that respects itself to protect itself by controlling all immigration on accord with the "will of the people."
Any immigrants need to integrate themselves into American culture - one language and adopt or at minimum respect our traditions.
We need to constantly remind our elected leaders what our country means to us and that they don't get to decide what immigration is permissible nor allow terms that permit multiple languages or disregard for our history and traditions.
Any immigrants need to integrate themselves into American culture - one language and adopt or at minimum respect our traditions.
We need to constantly remind our elected leaders what our country means to us and that they don't get to decide what immigration is permissible nor allow terms that permit multiple languages or disregard for our history and traditions.
9
"Without borders, there can be no country. I beehooves (behooves) any country that respects itself to protect itself by controlling all immigration on accord with the 'will of the people.'"
Ah, the fallacy of "logic."
All countries are artificial constructs.
Any country which exists today will some day not exist.
Humans are biological organisms; biological organisms will continue to migrate.
In a democracy the "people" have no one will.
However, I see where you're going.
Each American needs to buy more guns and ammunition, now, because only by expanding the unlimited right to own more guns will Americans truly be safe.
It's only "logical."
Ah, the fallacy of "logic."
All countries are artificial constructs.
Any country which exists today will some day not exist.
Humans are biological organisms; biological organisms will continue to migrate.
In a democracy the "people" have no one will.
However, I see where you're going.
Each American needs to buy more guns and ammunition, now, because only by expanding the unlimited right to own more guns will Americans truly be safe.
It's only "logical."
Of course countries are constructs. But they work that way and borders are part of that construct as are laws, languages and other "unnatural things". Americans have the right to their culture and language and immigrants should respect that. When I read discussion of the rights of immigrants both legal and illegal it is always the people who have done the right thing who are at fault. Those immigrants who followed the rules, worked hard and learned the language are pilloried as fools while those who decided that they get paid more here so they break the rules to come but they still like the culture that created their problems and resulted in their "immigration" and want to replicate it here lock stock and barrel that are identified as the victims. Requests to speak English are responded to with charges of racism and lectures on how much immigrants have contributed to this country. Yes, immigrants have contributed much. Those who assimilated and joined in the now demeaned "melting pot" recognizing that joining in the fray was good for all helped us all grow. Assimilation does not mean one gives up the traditions of their ancestors rather it means those traditions are honored and often reassessed in view of their new country.
I am all for helping immigrants succeed but they need to do their part and we need to recognize and reward those millions who do. To those, I say welcome home!
I am all for helping immigrants succeed but they need to do their part and we need to recognize and reward those millions who do. To those, I say welcome home!
As in 1804, the island of Hispaniola is about to set a standard for the rest of the world for good or bad. In 1804, the economic world order of slavery was turned upside down briefly when a nation joined forces to fight for its survival and won. The result, 1st world nations capitalized on this victory and simultaneously grew larger, stronger while strangling this very island for daring to stand on its own feet. Racism the disease of ignorance, is difficult to eradicate for many reasons. The economic order pits us against each other fooling us into thinking that we are different although we bleed the same, breathe the same air, live in the same area and speak the same language. Understandibly living in a country and not being able to provide for your family would and should force an individual to pick up and leave in search for a better opportunity. However, that is NOT the situation in HAITI and DR. To not guarantee citizenship to an individual born on the soil that they are birthed is unconscionable and renouncing generations of citizenships is deplorable. The HAITIAN government has to get its house in order and has been taking great strides to encourage foreign investments, DR gov't should work with its neighbor however not at the expense of deporting its "darker skinned" citizens. BE VERY CLEAR THE MAJORITY BEING DEPORTED ARE DOMINICANS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN TO HAITI and not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Work together, change the world....again
L'union Fait La Force
L'union Fait La Force
6
That's great, but how would the first world absorb the billions of people with zero skills who would leave their lands to come to Europe, N. America, Australia, etc?
A country has the sovereign right to determine who should or should not be within the limits of said country. It must be done fairly and with due process, but done nonetheless, or else the country will cease to exist.
A country has the sovereign right to determine who should or should not be within the limits of said country. It must be done fairly and with due process, but done nonetheless, or else the country will cease to exist.
6
"BE VERY CLEAR THE MAJORITY BEING DEPORTED ARE DOMINICANS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN TO HAITI and not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS". That is utterly an utterly irresponsible FALSE statement.
Do you actually live in the Dominican Republic to see the massive number of HAITIAN-BORN individuals in every street of every city and every rural community, including near beach resorts? I do. EVERY DAY. I can prove it to anyone, anytime. Do you live in the DR? I do. I do not need anyone to tell me what I can see with my own eyes.
There could be a SMALL, limited number of undocumented people born in the DR of Haitian ancestry that could be caught in the immigration sweeps, for whom certain rights guarantees should be protected, but the majority of the millions of individuals in question ARE, in FACT, illegal Haitian-born immigrants.
The name of the game here is to actually make the opposite to look as the truth, when is not. in order to stall the legal deportation process on its tracks. But the whole DR is watching.
Your "l'union fait la force" says EXACTLY on which side of the issue you are.
Do you actually live in the Dominican Republic to see the massive number of HAITIAN-BORN individuals in every street of every city and every rural community, including near beach resorts? I do. EVERY DAY. I can prove it to anyone, anytime. Do you live in the DR? I do. I do not need anyone to tell me what I can see with my own eyes.
There could be a SMALL, limited number of undocumented people born in the DR of Haitian ancestry that could be caught in the immigration sweeps, for whom certain rights guarantees should be protected, but the majority of the millions of individuals in question ARE, in FACT, illegal Haitian-born immigrants.
The name of the game here is to actually make the opposite to look as the truth, when is not. in order to stall the legal deportation process on its tracks. But the whole DR is watching.
Your "l'union fait la force" says EXACTLY on which side of the issue you are.
1
The real issue is that The DR does not want to become a basket case like Haiti. What is needed to solve this is for Haiti to be run by outsiders who know how to run a country, because it is evident Haitians cant.
9
The real issue is that the DR IS already a basket case, like Haiti, only they hide it better.
3
You don't travel much these days.
1
The DR has some serious issues, but the statistics and facts that can not be hidden would trump down your statement of portraying the DR as a basket case like Haiti.
In any event, your words would suffice as gospel to justify not letting the DR become another Haiti. Period.
In any event, your words would suffice as gospel to justify not letting the DR become another Haiti. Period.
Even before the days of the dictator, Trujillo, who ruled the DR from 1930 until he was murdered in 1961, Dominicans not only considered blacks second class but frequently murdered them with no legal consequences.
In October, 1937 the Parsley Massacre took place. 30,000 blacks were murdered. Anyone who couldn't pronounce the word parsley in Spanish as was common in the DR was killed. Those who couldn't were presumed to be of Haitian stock and were all black.
Trujillo himself used to use talcum powder on his face to make himself look whiter.
Though Trujillo is gone, the same mentality and, as we now are seeing, reality on the ground persists.
DR lives and dies with tourism.
Two can play this game.
Of course, Obama could show us that he means business in forcing their hand but so far he has refrained from this.
In October, 1937 the Parsley Massacre took place. 30,000 blacks were murdered. Anyone who couldn't pronounce the word parsley in Spanish as was common in the DR was killed. Those who couldn't were presumed to be of Haitian stock and were all black.
Trujillo himself used to use talcum powder on his face to make himself look whiter.
Though Trujillo is gone, the same mentality and, as we now are seeing, reality on the ground persists.
DR lives and dies with tourism.
Two can play this game.
Of course, Obama could show us that he means business in forcing their hand but so far he has refrained from this.
7
The DR, like most countries in the Caribbean with the exception of Castro's Cuba, is and will always be a banana republic.
And when communism is gone, Cuba will return to being a U.S.-dominated banana republic.
And being "murdered" is the traditional way to leave the presidency (aka dictatorship) is the Caribbean. Don't mess with traditions.
And when communism is gone, Cuba will return to being a U.S.-dominated banana republic.
And being "murdered" is the traditional way to leave the presidency (aka dictatorship) is the Caribbean. Don't mess with traditions.
The island's ethnic deportations pale in cruelty compared to the Haitian Revolution of 1791-1804, when 3,000 to 5,000 French and French Creoles were prevented from fleeing and murdered instead. As one Haitian spokesman of the time proclaimed: "For our declaration of independence, we should have the skin of a white man for parchment, his skull for an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen!"
14
Yea well, that's just voodoo stuff. Try to concentrate on what really mattered i the Hatian revolution.
2
Any country that blames all of its problems on what happened 100 or more years ago is doomed, just as is a 40 year old who blames all his failures on their parents.
2
It looks like what goes around comes back around.
2
I hope that any Domican born in the United Startes whose parents came to NYC in the 80's and 90's and stayed without proper documentation and started a family (whose children are now American citizens) are not supporting this policy. That would be the ultimate in hypocrisy. If the United States decided to institute this policy in Washington Heights, everyone would shout bloody murder!!!!! I am a first generation American whose parents obtained their citizenship, after being naturalized aliens, so I understand there should be a process. However, the DR's process seems flawed, racist and tragic.
29
You are completely wrong without knowledge of the conflict. You do not know anything about what is going on in the island of Hispaniola. The fact is the Dominican government is trying to legalize the undocumented immigrants. Have we legalized the millions of immigrants that we have in America? the answer is not. There is not racism in the Dominican Republic even though there is a couple of incidents that lead to the assumption of there is in fact racism in DR. The two nations have differences language and culture but Dominicans are the only people that have support the Haitians with food and human capital. See for yourself on Google map, the land of Haiti and we will see there is desert. Give the opportunity of the people of DR to have control over the border like we do here with the government.
1
Those are very harsh words ; I guarantee you don't have all the facts. Maybe you should take time and read for yourself; all the DR government is trying to do is give papers to all whom have never had them.
The DR is a poor nation ; not as poor as Haiti ; but in no way it can take care of two poor people.
The DR is a poor nation ; not as poor as Haiti ; but in no way it can take care of two poor people.
Question: Since according to the so-called pro-life movement, abortion is murder, and God values every child from the moment of her/his conception, Why doesn't the so-called pro-life movement mobilize to help children, including the unborn and the poor, around the world?
5
Enter any Catholic hospital and, if you are poor, they immediately apply for Medicaid on your behalf.
Hypocrisy and religion are the opposite sides of a coin.
Hypocrisy and religion are the opposite sides of a coin.
This article misses the point when it compares what happens in the Dominican Republic with what happens in Hungary, Australia, Bulgaria and other countries that feel overwhelmed by immigrants.
Unlike those countries the policy in the Dominican is clearly a racist policy aimed at anyone with a black skin and targeting people who have lived for many generations there.
The world should condemn this outrage harshly and take appropriate sanctions.
Unlike those countries the policy in the Dominican is clearly a racist policy aimed at anyone with a black skin and targeting people who have lived for many generations there.
The world should condemn this outrage harshly and take appropriate sanctions.
5
What color skin do you think Dominicans have?
3
You are misinformed and without any knowledge of the situation. First, I have relatives that are really dark skin and are Dominicans, nobody has tried to deport them, the DR is the only country that has supply food and capital to the impoverish country. The fact is as nation we have the right to control our borders and the government is trying to legalize undocumented people like the US government has done for years. In US there are a lot of people living for decade without documents and they have been deported to their country with their children been born in US. Have you seen the news? You only talk about the racism in other country specially a poor country like Dominican Republic but you don't talk about this country. The Dominicans have the right to be a country with sovereignty and laws. Can you see what happens to a child that is born an Italy from a undocumented parents? They are not Italian citizen.
2
National boundaries are not just random lines of demarcation, and individuals do not have an automatic right to live anywhere in the world that they wish to. The article links the issue of illegal immigration into the Dominican Republic with similar immigration problems around the world. The solution cannot be for every wealthier nation to pretend that it has no immigration policy, nor to admit every economic migrant. If there is a responsibility, it is to encourage better governance in the poorer countries, and (while many will object) more free trade so that the poorer countries can improve themselves. The answer is not for all poor people to move to a richer country.
23
I agree that the solution is to demand better governance in the countries exporting people. Corruption is a plague around the world. The article says people have been paying fees without receiving their paperwork and this is wrong. the reality is most people do not want to leave their countries, their families and their cultures. If they had better opportunities at home, they would stay put.
Many of the comments on here are woefully misinformed let's tackle the biggest misconceptions.
1. Overpopulation- there is no human population crisis, not people only bring this up when there are poor countries involved, last I checked no one ever says the only way to maintain social security is by making old people sicker. There is enough food and capital in this world to feed everyone, the problem is that stratification in wealth and where those resources are located.
2. It is not a "racist" policy, the Dominican Republic was the first and only country to continue efforts to help the Haitian people after the devastating earthquake and continue to do so to this day! The Dominican gov't has spent and done more for the Haitian people than it's own government. These are facts.
3. The Dominican government gave people a year, that's 365 days to produce the documents necessary for naturalization and residency, that's a heck of a lot more than the United States does for illegal immigrants & certainly more sympathetic considering the Dominican Republic is a poor country. The fact of the matter is, that time is up and immigration laws need to be enforced.
4. While it is regrettable that some people in Dominican Republic while born there aren't citizens, this is not a new policy. The United States & Canada are the only countries in the world that grant birthright citizenship to ANYONE born in their borders & territories.
1. Overpopulation- there is no human population crisis, not people only bring this up when there are poor countries involved, last I checked no one ever says the only way to maintain social security is by making old people sicker. There is enough food and capital in this world to feed everyone, the problem is that stratification in wealth and where those resources are located.
2. It is not a "racist" policy, the Dominican Republic was the first and only country to continue efforts to help the Haitian people after the devastating earthquake and continue to do so to this day! The Dominican gov't has spent and done more for the Haitian people than it's own government. These are facts.
3. The Dominican government gave people a year, that's 365 days to produce the documents necessary for naturalization and residency, that's a heck of a lot more than the United States does for illegal immigrants & certainly more sympathetic considering the Dominican Republic is a poor country. The fact of the matter is, that time is up and immigration laws need to be enforced.
4. While it is regrettable that some people in Dominican Republic while born there aren't citizens, this is not a new policy. The United States & Canada are the only countries in the world that grant birthright citizenship to ANYONE born in their borders & territories.
8
Not to mention, as a white guy married to a Dominican, Americans calling Domincans racist is a joke. There is no comparison between the cultures. Dominican families, my wife's included, range the spectrum of colors. They live and work among each other every day and intermarry regularly. Can Americans say that. I live on Long Island and blacks and browns are segregated to a handful of communities -- is that by coincidence. If a Brentwood Dominican tried to enroll in a Dix Hills elementary school, the five year old Dominican would be "deported" to his Brentwood district on the first day. Also, all this talk of Trujillo, as if the Dominican people elected him. Are you kidding? He murdered more Dominicans then Haitians and was only in power because the US put him and kept him there. When the US got tired of him, they allowed the Dominicans to murder him. Finally, I have a Dominican nephew who was brought to the US illegallly when he was 4 (1975). He was educated in the US, married to an American white girl, has two kids who are practically translucent and he only found out he was illegal in his late 20s when his social security card was bounced at his job. What happened in our great country? He was ordered deported, notwithstanding the job, wife and kids. Can he apply based on his US wife. Nope, because he was here illegally, Bush made sure he needs to go home first and reapply, then good luck. Let's look at ourselves before we start boycotting poor countries.
3
E rodriguez
All your points are incorrect and misleading, and like every Dominican you suffer from the tunnel vision syndrome, regardless how educated. It's true the Dominicans republic was the first to Help Haiti after the earth quake, and we are grateful, but you conveniently failed to mention the Dominican republic has receive the Lion share of the rebuilding contract in Haiti. also Haiti is the Dominican republic biggest trading partner after the US, the trade surplus is 2 billions at the Dominican republic favor
All your points are incorrect and misleading, and like every Dominican you suffer from the tunnel vision syndrome, regardless how educated. It's true the Dominicans republic was the first to Help Haiti after the earth quake, and we are grateful, but you conveniently failed to mention the Dominican republic has receive the Lion share of the rebuilding contract in Haiti. also Haiti is the Dominican republic biggest trading partner after the US, the trade surplus is 2 billions at the Dominican republic favor
All this "migration" is no accident. Radical "conservatives" have been placed in positions of power all over the world by the top 1% global financial elite and they are all singing the same song - the "poor" are killing us and must be purged from OUR society. How soon will we see another Rwanda and do nothing? What happened to all the "foreign aid" we send to these countries? It is in the hands of the same financial elite who are destroying civility and peace around the world.
1
First of all, it may be true that some Dominicans are racist, the same ways there are some Americans and Europeans are. Racism is a Global issue, not particular to one country or group of people. So, please stop saying that the policy that the Dominican Republic is trying to implement is because they are racist. If they are racist, why they where the first one to help Haitians when the hurricane happened and where the last one to leave the country because they continue their assistance when other did not. Furthermore, they allow haitians to migrate to DR while their country was in deplorable conditions.
Dominican Republic is a small country with more than 10 million people and whose economy is terribly administrated by the government officials. DR economy can barely sustain Dominicans themselves. Having so many undocumented immigrants in a economy that is not well administrated is a burden for both, the natives and the immigrants.
I am nit trying to defend the policy completely because I feel that it is not fair to denied citizenship to children born in DR, however this policy is not exclusive to DR.there are many countries who have the same policy and are not being criticized, like DR is now. Beside Haitians were given the opportunity of legalizing themselves and not too many tried. I just hope that people would stop forming their negative opinion against Doninicans before looking at the facts and the situation as a whole.
Dominican Republic is a small country with more than 10 million people and whose economy is terribly administrated by the government officials. DR economy can barely sustain Dominicans themselves. Having so many undocumented immigrants in a economy that is not well administrated is a burden for both, the natives and the immigrants.
I am nit trying to defend the policy completely because I feel that it is not fair to denied citizenship to children born in DR, however this policy is not exclusive to DR.there are many countries who have the same policy and are not being criticized, like DR is now. Beside Haitians were given the opportunity of legalizing themselves and not too many tried. I just hope that people would stop forming their negative opinion against Doninicans before looking at the facts and the situation as a whole.
18
You missed the point, tunnel vision syndrome again. let me try that
1. if you were born from Haitians parent as far back 1929
2. You have voted
3. You participated in your daily life as the citizen of that country
4. You represented your country internationally
One day the government of that country pass law and stating that we made mistake, we should NOT have given you citizenship to start with.
1.Sorry, it took us almost a century to realize our error
2.Since, we want to legalize you, we will first confiscate your citizenship
3.Now, you will need to re-apply for a residence(landed Immigrant), one more thing you need to prove one of your parent was a legal resident or Dominicans
Do you see anything wrong with that scenario ?
1. if you were born from Haitians parent as far back 1929
2. You have voted
3. You participated in your daily life as the citizen of that country
4. You represented your country internationally
One day the government of that country pass law and stating that we made mistake, we should NOT have given you citizenship to start with.
1.Sorry, it took us almost a century to realize our error
2.Since, we want to legalize you, we will first confiscate your citizenship
3.Now, you will need to re-apply for a residence(landed Immigrant), one more thing you need to prove one of your parent was a legal resident or Dominicans
Do you see anything wrong with that scenario ?
Republicans must be cheering. This is exactly what THEY want to do here.
1
The cause of all this misery are corrupt, venal politicians raping and exploiting their countries, instead of being concerned for the population's welfare. This will go on until countries stop becoming personal cash cows for corrupt men.
3
Yes and that includes the good old US of A.
Sounds like the United States today with the oligarchs and their corrupt enablers in Congress making it all possible.
I would NEVER visit DR EVER again! They could NEVER get a $1 of my tourist money again until they end this travesty!
4
If you apply your principles fairly, you will actually boycott almost every country on Earth, including the U.S.
4
John, if you applied your intelligence fairly, you wouldn't have posted that remark.
Yep, there's too many people on this planet. Unfortunately, the right to reproduce as many times as one wants is such a closely held belief that few people even question it. At some point, we will run out of resources and climate change is going to make that day come sooner than we would like. What kind of life are setting up for all of these children?
10
This article glanced over the racism at the core this Dominican Republic policy that the NY Times reported here just two days
ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/magazine/the-dominican-time-bomb.html?...
It is really the case of the "Narcissism of minor differences" as put by Sigmund Freud. It would be a tragicomedy if not for reports of mob rules and lynching of Haitians by Dominicans dressed in Klan robe.
ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/magazine/the-dominican-time-bomb.html?...
It is really the case of the "Narcissism of minor differences" as put by Sigmund Freud. It would be a tragicomedy if not for reports of mob rules and lynching of Haitians by Dominicans dressed in Klan robe.
In a land of intractable corruption and desperation, of unparalleled love and spirituality, of unending contradiction and irony, Haitians have a very simple yet profound saying: "pa senp," translated roughly as "It's not simple," which is to say "Things are not always as they seem and are full of complexities."
For Haitians, the decision to seek work in the DR is not an easy one. They know they are going to be exploited and abused. They don't go there with dreams of building a new future for their children, only a desperate bid for survival.
It is easy to understand and sympathize with the DR perspective, but Dominicans must understand that the new policy will only make life worse for everyone on the island. In a few years...eventually...the Haitians will return. They'll pay off border guards and find work as slave laborers, and people in the DR will be willing and eager to hire them.
Haiti is in a permanent humanitarian crisis that is largely ignored by the world. Even when the outside world tries, the forces of corruption and ignorance (not only in Haiti but in humanity) inevitably win; just look the recent travesty involving the Red Cross relief funds for the latest example.
I've been involved in Haiti almost 20 years and will continue, but I do not expect to see Haiti as a whole prosper or even improve in my lifetime and I know this DR policy will only make it worse. I will witness the direct impact of it in villages I visit.
For Haitians, the decision to seek work in the DR is not an easy one. They know they are going to be exploited and abused. They don't go there with dreams of building a new future for their children, only a desperate bid for survival.
It is easy to understand and sympathize with the DR perspective, but Dominicans must understand that the new policy will only make life worse for everyone on the island. In a few years...eventually...the Haitians will return. They'll pay off border guards and find work as slave laborers, and people in the DR will be willing and eager to hire them.
Haiti is in a permanent humanitarian crisis that is largely ignored by the world. Even when the outside world tries, the forces of corruption and ignorance (not only in Haiti but in humanity) inevitably win; just look the recent travesty involving the Red Cross relief funds for the latest example.
I've been involved in Haiti almost 20 years and will continue, but I do not expect to see Haiti as a whole prosper or even improve in my lifetime and I know this DR policy will only make it worse. I will witness the direct impact of it in villages I visit.
1
I sailed past Hispanola last year. Haiti was a brown smoking blotch, but the instant it turned into the DR it appeared green. People around the world are trying to cross from the places they have destroyed, into places they see as hopeful. More than 4 billion dollars was donated to Haiti after the earthquake, but again nothing filtered down to ordinary Haitians, who seem unable to create a government that is not corrupt. All countries have a right to enforce their laws at the borders, but when a country tries to enforce the law it is seen as racist. The government here in the US could register its disappointment with the DR by promptly deporting all Dominicans that are in this country illegally.
The real problem of course is over population. Most of the people who are trying to get into other countries are people that have large families that they are unable to support. The most effective policy would empower women to make decisions about how many children they have.
The real problem of course is over population. Most of the people who are trying to get into other countries are people that have large families that they are unable to support. The most effective policy would empower women to make decisions about how many children they have.
11
Dominican Government is only trying to provide documents to all illegal immigrants .
It is not justifying the past ,it is just trying to fix the present and future.
Dominicans are NOT RACIST ; we share Hispaniola with Haiti ; but there are two different cultures...Haitians DO NOT want to be Dominicans neither Dominicans want to be Haitian.
Immigration from Haiti is only because Haitians cant get jobs in their own countries.
Dominican Republic is a poor nation it can't sustain two poor people.
THESE ARE THE FACTS!!!!!
It is not justifying the past ,it is just trying to fix the present and future.
Dominicans are NOT RACIST ; we share Hispaniola with Haiti ; but there are two different cultures...Haitians DO NOT want to be Dominicans neither Dominicans want to be Haitian.
Immigration from Haiti is only because Haitians cant get jobs in their own countries.
Dominican Republic is a poor nation it can't sustain two poor people.
THESE ARE THE FACTS!!!!!
9
The only problem I see is when the government with the support of people want to take the citizenship away of haitians decendents. This is affecting 4th generations od Haitians. How is this right? They were born there thinking all their lives that they are Domincans but then, sorry you are not! Your great granfather came illegal into the country.
Mr. Singer you are so right. DR is already a poor country and others want DR to absorb Haiti's problems. Why were the decades of Haitians internal corruption issues ever addressed?
1
Another good article on the crisis of Haitians and Haitian-Dominicans in DR. The article doesn't mention the pending presidential election in DR, in which current President Danilo Medina plans to run again, which requires yet another change to the Constitution. To ensure this change, several major parties there, including Medina's, have created a fusion ticket that is drawing on the nationalism spurred by expelling the Haitians to gain traction.
It would also be nice to see more articles on the disastrous situation with Haiti's current government under Michel Martelly. I've noticed that in this and several prior articles on this issue there is no mention of the fact that Martelly is effectively running Haiti without a legislature! This is a problem not just for the Haitians facing deportation from DR, but for the people of Haiti itself. The NY Times covered this situation months ago, but since then , I've seen almost nothing.
Populations grow
capital flows
where we'll end up
nobody knows....
It would also be nice to see more articles on the disastrous situation with Haiti's current government under Michel Martelly. I've noticed that in this and several prior articles on this issue there is no mention of the fact that Martelly is effectively running Haiti without a legislature! This is a problem not just for the Haitians facing deportation from DR, but for the people of Haiti itself. The NY Times covered this situation months ago, but since then , I've seen almost nothing.
Populations grow
capital flows
where we'll end up
nobody knows....
4
This is happening everywhere. We live in a simmering pot of overpopulation and yet that fact is the one element that is left out of all discussions of these human crises. There is just not enough room and resources for all of us and at the rate we are reproducing humankind could be in total chaos bordering on collapse within a generation or two. At some point, as humans, we need to confront our long term survival and that includes birth control.
141
According to recent articles in the NY Times, overpopulation is a fraud. Didn't you hear?
These people are all either "economic" or "political" refugees.
That means we can ignore them and they will go away.
Denial, along with blaming the victims, is always the way to go.
These people are all either "economic" or "political" refugees.
That means we can ignore them and they will go away.
Denial, along with blaming the victims, is always the way to go.
5
Gay (not reproductive) sex is not that popular. We will have to manage with current 'overpopulation' if it is an overpopulation.
1
We need to stop doing medical research that extends human life or we will be a planet of old people unable to take care of ourselves. The population boom is due to increased food production,more children surviving child birth and people living longer. The latter up thirty years in the last century.
1
In the DR a presidential election is coming up and its right around the corner in 2016. Perfect timing to arouse nationalistic emotions. BTW for president Danilo Medina to be able run again the constitution needs to be changed.....again.
5
Funny you have mentioned elections. Haiti should have had congresional and presidential elections months ago and of course this crisis is perfect to divert attention from their laundry list of problems.
3
You'll be seeing a lot more of this type of deportation as countries begin to deal with the problems or remaining solvent and viable entities with obligations to their own citizens.
Offering citizenship to everyone that crosses the boarder...and then also offering social security benefits to those who haven't contributed can only lead to the demise of an already over stressed ecomony.
The US is 18 Trillion in debt, with most of it's tax sponsored budget going back to the public in the form of welfare and other public programs.
Who in the world thinks a country that's 18 Trillion in debt has the capacity to accept any illegals at all.
We are not rich...stop thinking that we are...we are a bankrupt country living on the credit of our lenders.
Duh!!!!
Offering citizenship to everyone that crosses the boarder...and then also offering social security benefits to those who haven't contributed can only lead to the demise of an already over stressed ecomony.
The US is 18 Trillion in debt, with most of it's tax sponsored budget going back to the public in the form of welfare and other public programs.
Who in the world thinks a country that's 18 Trillion in debt has the capacity to accept any illegals at all.
We are not rich...stop thinking that we are...we are a bankrupt country living on the credit of our lenders.
Duh!!!!
47
Geee, if you guys stopped waging wars on other countries you would 1) be rich enough to take care of your own poor; and 2) not be impoverishing and displacing people in other countries. Your military and your military contractors are killing people overseas left and right; destroying infrastructure and food production systems galore; taking away the means for these individuals to feed their families; and then you dare complain that these poor souls are trying to move to other countries where they might have a chance to survive. How callous of you. But then, why would I be amazed? You are truly exceptional, aren't you??
1
Ed911, we aren't bankrupt or anything like. Remember that:
1. Our debt is not high as a percentage of GDP -- it is far from a record for the United States and well within what economists consider a manageable number. Furthermore, the deficit has been coming down steadily and would disappear if we increased our tax rates, which are lower than in other industrialized countries.
2. The debt is payable in dollars -- and the government can print as much money as it wants. Worst case, inflation. Furthermore, the debt is basically just the government borrowing from itself, with a middleman, e.g., the Fed creates money, lends it out at the prime, then it gets lent back to the goverment at a somewhat higher (but still low) interest rate.
3. Our foreign debts are denominated in dollars. There is no way we can possibly default.
4. As a consequence of macroeconomics, a high level of federal (not local) debt is beneficial when the economy is sluggish, as it has been.
5. Finally, the United States has one of the highest per capita incomes in the world. We are hardly poor: we are the world's richest country with some fo the world's most prosperous citizens.
I agree with you about the illegals, but you really need to learn some economics to understand what's going on.
1. Our debt is not high as a percentage of GDP -- it is far from a record for the United States and well within what economists consider a manageable number. Furthermore, the deficit has been coming down steadily and would disappear if we increased our tax rates, which are lower than in other industrialized countries.
2. The debt is payable in dollars -- and the government can print as much money as it wants. Worst case, inflation. Furthermore, the debt is basically just the government borrowing from itself, with a middleman, e.g., the Fed creates money, lends it out at the prime, then it gets lent back to the goverment at a somewhat higher (but still low) interest rate.
3. Our foreign debts are denominated in dollars. There is no way we can possibly default.
4. As a consequence of macroeconomics, a high level of federal (not local) debt is beneficial when the economy is sluggish, as it has been.
5. Finally, the United States has one of the highest per capita incomes in the world. We are hardly poor: we are the world's richest country with some fo the world's most prosperous citizens.
I agree with you about the illegals, but you really need to learn some economics to understand what's going on.
In response to ED911
Social security is only given to those who have paid, Indeed, undocumented workers often contribute to the social security fund, but are not able later to collect.any benefits.
We are in debt because corporations now pay half the tax they paid fifty years ago, and the wealthy pay about the same, or less. So the average person, whose wages have stagnated, are left to face reduced funds for educations, infrastructure, and so forth.
Most of the budget does NOT go to welfare, unless one calls social security and medicare welfare, which it is not, since those who collect it have been paying over all of their working lives for it.
Our national wealth keeps growing, but is shared less and less, as more and more goes into the profits of multi-national corporations and into the income streams of the wealthy.
Yes, illegal immigration is a problem, but for answers we need to place the problem within the context of how wealthy is distributed, as Pope Francis has so eloquently explained.
Social security is only given to those who have paid, Indeed, undocumented workers often contribute to the social security fund, but are not able later to collect.any benefits.
We are in debt because corporations now pay half the tax they paid fifty years ago, and the wealthy pay about the same, or less. So the average person, whose wages have stagnated, are left to face reduced funds for educations, infrastructure, and so forth.
Most of the budget does NOT go to welfare, unless one calls social security and medicare welfare, which it is not, since those who collect it have been paying over all of their working lives for it.
Our national wealth keeps growing, but is shared less and less, as more and more goes into the profits of multi-national corporations and into the income streams of the wealthy.
Yes, illegal immigration is a problem, but for answers we need to place the problem within the context of how wealthy is distributed, as Pope Francis has so eloquently explained.
I get a sense that the essence of the problem is a DR-Haiti population bomb. As these countries experience overpopulation, old tensions are revived and instead of the need for population stabilization being the real issue, racism is viewed as the only culprit. Both countries are vastly overpopulated in relation to their governments' ability to address the needs of the masses.
70
Both countries are vastly overpopulated in relation to the environment's ability to sustain them.
4
I agree - why do people have kids when they can't afford them. Just look at the poorest countries in the world - too many children that can't be supported. And the rest of the world is expected to support these kids. Whatever happened to responsibility?
1
You write like DR and Haiti are one country......they are not.
2
Sad in so many ways. Maybe, if promises were kept to rebuild Haiti, then there would be jobs in Haiti and another reason not to leave Haiti.
18
Haiti is already the Republic of NGOs. How much 'help' does it take?!
1
Wait until climate change starts really making things much worse, people scrambling to find food, shelter, jobs. If a lot of people are on the move now, just wait, the best is yet to come.
6
How is it climate change that is making these people be on the move. Would think guns, fighting and rape would be far more likely.
6
Yes, there is no relationship between living a life of abject poverty in an island slum and violence.
Violence happens because some people are basically evil, right?
By the way, every time a big hurricane hits the island, Haiti experiences much more destruction...because Haitians, struggling to get enough to eat from day to day, have converted their part into a desert.
Violence happens because some people are basically evil, right?
By the way, every time a big hurricane hits the island, Haiti experiences much more destruction...because Haitians, struggling to get enough to eat from day to day, have converted their part into a desert.
2
Less food, less water, higher oceans. Seems simple to me.
2
DR is a democracy now and 51% of the population is the sovereign of the moment. If you believe in democracy, as many Americans do, you must concede that it is the sovereign right of the majority to make whatever rules they want for the rest.
The founding fathers did not believe in majority rule and neither do I. They believed in constitutional limitations on the power of the majority, limitations which with respect to property have been reduced in practice to a vestigial level.
Just as a homeowner has a right to decide who shall enter, every nation has. right to decide who may enter. In a democracy, extension of citizenship is a decision to subject oneself to the rule and every nation must determine its own criteria. The 14th amendment is not universal.
The founding fathers did not believe in majority rule and neither do I. They believed in constitutional limitations on the power of the majority, limitations which with respect to property have been reduced in practice to a vestigial level.
Just as a homeowner has a right to decide who shall enter, every nation has. right to decide who may enter. In a democracy, extension of citizenship is a decision to subject oneself to the rule and every nation must determine its own criteria. The 14th amendment is not universal.
36
People immigrate when there is no hope where they live. They go to another country and take menial jobs at low wages and work hard to raise their family. Then in bad economic times they are blamed for taking jobs and using more than they pay by those who may have come legally or illegally generations ago.
1
The anti-Haitian racism of the Dominican Republic is notorious and long-standing. It is part and parcel of the widespread Dominican denial of their own African heritage. The official ideology of the DR attributes the dark skin of most Dominicans to putative indigenous origins, but if that were true Dominicans would not be so renowned for their talents with hot combs.
What is happening now is not simply the enforcement of immigration laws. The uprooting of families who have been in the country for generations is a form of ethnic cleansing and anybody who imagines that it will not entail considerable violence is fooling themselves.
The DR has a legitimate complaint with the international community, in particular the US, for its failures in aiding both the DR and Haiti. But recognition of this should not prevent us from identifying and opposing the cruelty and racism of this policy.
What is happening now is not simply the enforcement of immigration laws. The uprooting of families who have been in the country for generations is a form of ethnic cleansing and anybody who imagines that it will not entail considerable violence is fooling themselves.
The DR has a legitimate complaint with the international community, in particular the US, for its failures in aiding both the DR and Haiti. But recognition of this should not prevent us from identifying and opposing the cruelty and racism of this policy.
20
Why is it the US responsibility? 4 billion dollars was donated for Haitian relief after the earthquake, where did that go?
52
Instead of chiding the US for "its failures in aiding both the DR and Haiti", I would chide it for not aiding its own citizens before doling out tax monies to the DR and Haiti. Our poor must take precedence over everyone else in the world.
5
The Red Cross spent it on their salaries, bad planning and corruption there is an NPR radio investigation if you google it
2
Why would anyone be concerned with 1 billion poor people wanting to move to their country, with a need for education, shelter, food, jobs, and healthcare?
Seriously, what's the big plan? If a billion people move from one place to another that's much better, the "much better" place is going to change and it's not going to be an improvement.
It's understandable why people would want to move to a better place. But it's equally understandable why people would not want their home place to decline because millions of poor and needy people wanted to live there.
Seriously, what's the big plan? If a billion people move from one place to another that's much better, the "much better" place is going to change and it's not going to be an improvement.
It's understandable why people would want to move to a better place. But it's equally understandable why people would not want their home place to decline because millions of poor and needy people wanted to live there.
59
People will continue to flee overpopulation, poverty and repression...and unfortunately most of the world's political class (not just ours, and not just the right-wing) is completely clueless.
1
This is the friction that inevitably arises when people have too many children for their environment.
It will probably come to a head globally this century.
It will probably come to a head globally this century.
87
Birth control is a sin.
Women were placed on Earth to have as many children as possible.
This is still the teaching of the Catholic Church under super pope Francis.
Women are second-class subjects in the eyes of God, and second-class citizens in the eyes of the government.
Women were placed on Earth to have as many children as possible.
This is still the teaching of the Catholic Church under super pope Francis.
Women are second-class subjects in the eyes of God, and second-class citizens in the eyes of the government.
1
It seems that more and more, people are stuck where Fate has chosen to plant them, trapped behind borders enforced with identity papers, razor wire and guard towers.
Capital, by contrast, is increasingly free to wander the globe, crossing any and all borders in search of the highest possible return (read: lowest possible wages, loosest regulations, weakest unions, fattest government subsidies). And so numbers on little pieces of paper have more rights than flesh-and-blood human beings...
Capital, by contrast, is increasingly free to wander the globe, crossing any and all borders in search of the highest possible return (read: lowest possible wages, loosest regulations, weakest unions, fattest government subsidies). And so numbers on little pieces of paper have more rights than flesh-and-blood human beings...
53
I agree with you but if America didn't buy from foreign countries we would have more immigrants. Jobs in developing countries alleviates their need to move.
Well, after all, corporations are people too, no?
Maybe we should take another look at all the Dominicans coming to the US - especially those earning millions from their careers in baseball.
Chevy
South Hadley, MA
Chevy
South Hadley, MA
11
Except that those are the ones who are documented with work visas by the US
2
I respect your opinion but what is the reasoning behind your comment? I would recommend for the ones looking for the talent to seek out Baseball players in Haiti then...
The Dominican Republic faces now the problem that the US faces since one century. How to get rid of cheap labor not needed anymore.
25
And I would love to see these Dominicans cut down sugar cane, pick coffee beans, harvest produce, shine shoes, etc. Be careful what you wish for
The article is leaving out how much RACISIM is driving this campaign. At many tourist discos or clubs, you may not enter if you're "too dark" - Dominican or not.
19
Assuming that what you are saying about dark skinned people not being allowed to enter discos and clubs in the Dom Rep, that bits the heck out of tens of blacks being killed while attending church or having a couple of blacks being killed by white policemen in the US every other week. Wasn’t your president that recently noted that the US had not been cured of racism ?? If you are black in the US and you buy a brand new expensive bicycle, you better keep the receipt at all times.
2
Unspoken of in this article are the deep racist currents that run through Dominican culture. The dictator Trujillo did his work convincing a population they have no African blood, and are in fact Spanish. The situation has been very ugly for Haitains for decades. DR is a poor country, which is why so many have moved to the USA (whether legally or illegally). I think it very hypocritical of anyone whose people have been the beneficiaries of immigration - whether they be Dominican or from the USA - to then deny the same opportunities to others. The real conversation needs to be of global/local economies run amok by a small percentage of peope with fancy names like IMF, Goldman Sachs, etc, etc, etc.
32
Haiti's problems greatly predate the villains you list. Businesses do tend tend to exploit , and to a greater extent where there is corruption, weakness and ignorance.
Please, say no to civil war. It will destroy the entire island. Be responsible and come up with a plan that involves both the Haitian and Dominican governments. Something like a work-trade plan or green cards. Just don't start killing each other.
3
The best plan for Haiti would be to allow all Haitians to emigrate legally...and then leave Haiti empty for a few hundred years to allow the land to recuperate.
1
This article is missing the crucial element that triggered the crisis: a 2013 Dominican high court decision that being born in the DR is not enough to confer citizenship on the children of illegal immigrants. The result of this ruling is that 3 or more generations of Dominicans of Haitian descent. who have done all the tough jobs in that country, risk being expelled to a country they don't know at all.
122
The prime test of sovereignty is whether or not a government can determine who is and who is not permitted to remain as a legal resident or citizen. In this age of mass and chaotic migration it is no surprise to me that government may well decide that children born of undocumented aliens do not qualify as native born citizens. I would not at all be surprised to see that ruling spread to Western Europe, Australia and the United States.
3
In many countries in western europe even if you are born in european soil and your parents are legal documented migrants, you are not allowed to file for citenship until you are 18 years old and pass a language test. Until recently 2nd and 3rd generation German born Turkish were not granted citenship. The demographic density of the US is 90.6 inhabitants per square mile, Canada's is 8.3 and Australia's is 7.3. Is is easy to be "generous" to grant citizenship to everyone born where there is so much space regardless of the legal status of parents. In the Dom Rep we have 501 inhabitants per squere mile (and I seriously doubt Australia grants citisenship to children born of undocumented workers). There would seem to be a double standard when it comes to regulating immigration. For rick industrialized countries is okay to regulate the flow of illegal migrants cominng from poor countries (south to north migration) but not for developing countries when dealing with migrants coming from poor countries.
2
Tough Jobs? You speak as though you know what it is like to grow up in a 3rd world country
1
An illegal immigrant should be returned to the land of their citizenship. One should not profit from illegal acts. And some countries do not have birthright citizenship; that is their right as sovereign countries. Sorry, but the illegal acts of the parents do not privilege their children to claim a new citizenship in the absence of a birthright citizenship law. In a world of limited resources countries need to look after their own citizens first.
78
Manichaean to the max. Humanism but an ugly rumor.
3
"An illegal immigrant should be returned to the land of their citizenship. One should not profit from illegal acts."
And of course, you will be the first one to offer to increase the taxes you pay to support more police making sweeps in your neighborhood. By the way, a country cannot be forced to take back illegal immigrants since many illegal immigrants are not recognized as citizens in their supposed country.
But I agree with the statement about illegal acts. I would pay more taxes so that more Wall Street bankers would go to prison. Bernie Madoff is just the tip of the iceberg.
And of course, you will be the first one to offer to increase the taxes you pay to support more police making sweeps in your neighborhood. By the way, a country cannot be forced to take back illegal immigrants since many illegal immigrants are not recognized as citizens in their supposed country.
But I agree with the statement about illegal acts. I would pay more taxes so that more Wall Street bankers would go to prison. Bernie Madoff is just the tip of the iceberg.
1
"One should not profit from illegal acts."
Thanks for the laugh.
You mean, "Poor people should not profit from illegal acts."
Because many rich people are rich exactly because they HAVE gotten away with illegal acts, and the help of a system that favors the rich so that when the rich steal it isn't illegal.
Thanks for the laugh.
You mean, "Poor people should not profit from illegal acts."
Because many rich people are rich exactly because they HAVE gotten away with illegal acts, and the help of a system that favors the rich so that when the rich steal it isn't illegal.
3
And I thought the U.S. had a terrible immigration policy but the D.R. is even worse, scattershot and poorly conceived. If Dominican born, Haitian descended people can get threatened with deportation, I hope darker skinned Dominicans realize that they too will inevitably get caught in the deportation fray.
People may not realize that Haiti and the D.R. share the island of Hispaniola-- everyone is literally living on one big rock!
It's going to be interesting if there is a boycott as was suggested by some prominent Dominicans and Haitians in the U.S. Also as another commenter suggested, if all the cheap labor that Haitians provide on the sugar plantations is diminished with their deportations, will these plantation owners pay Dominicans (the ones who pass the test, I guess) a higher wage? What if, the tourism industry goes into a tailspin and sends the economy sinking? Just my opinion, but it must truly be difficult to formulate a sensible immigration policy when racism and color prejudice clouds one's view.
People may not realize that Haiti and the D.R. share the island of Hispaniola-- everyone is literally living on one big rock!
It's going to be interesting if there is a boycott as was suggested by some prominent Dominicans and Haitians in the U.S. Also as another commenter suggested, if all the cheap labor that Haitians provide on the sugar plantations is diminished with their deportations, will these plantation owners pay Dominicans (the ones who pass the test, I guess) a higher wage? What if, the tourism industry goes into a tailspin and sends the economy sinking? Just my opinion, but it must truly be difficult to formulate a sensible immigration policy when racism and color prejudice clouds one's view.
9
These people were given 365 days to provide proof of citizenship. Wouldn't you think this is enough time for the individual to obtain such document and/or for the Haitian government to act accordingly. The president of the Dominican Reoublic stated and I quote "stop the defamation and biased campaign towards the Dominican Republic, we won't become richer or poor just because one or a few tourist device to boycott the DR". Just a good suggestion, to help Haiti, how come those foreign investors and tourists won't visit Haiti? I forgot, this country is too unstable and the government is too corrupt to take the blame... Oh and I will suggest you do the same for the Bahamas where they are carrying Haitians in cells and deporting every single person back to Haiti.
1
547.5 days to be exact
2
Guess what? Those Haitians you so proudly defend where given over 18 months to regularize their situation. Over 55,000 qualified and will get their status reaffirmed, and those that did not have any previous status are now legal residents. Obviously those needed file the necessary documentation, most of which originated in Haiti. And want to know something? The Haitian government was unable and/or unwilling to give the documentation to its own citizens, so I wonder who is rendering its own citizens stateless?
Many of those who are being expelled are born and raised Dominicans with no familiarity with Haiti, and who speak Spanish only. The racist nature of DR's policy is laid bare in the criteria being used to expel these people: “dark-skinned Dominicans with Haitian facial features.”
Not that racism is anything new for DR. In 1937, DR soldiers and militia murdered tens of thousands of Haitians and dumped them into Massacre River (Dajabón). This and other murderous assaults are why some are "self-deporting" to Haiti.
Not that racism is anything new for DR. In 1937, DR soldiers and militia murdered tens of thousands of Haitians and dumped them into Massacre River (Dajabón). This and other murderous assaults are why some are "self-deporting" to Haiti.
44
Right and they're keeping only white people.
4
What white people? When I visited the DR I didn't see anyone that looked like the Brady Bunch.
3
Which is about 10 % of our population...so we will go from 10 to 1 million people..........???
1
As of years of corporations robbing the people and treating them like slaves what can we expect. Add to that Austerity and thieving banks making it worse and you have chaos.
6
'Long before that, the United States was deporting hundreds of thousands of people and building walls to keep out migrants'
Hilarious. Clearly those perfuntory efforts did not stop 11+ million from remaining illegally or those deported coming back several times.
More due process for Haitians would be appropriate but Dominican Republic does have the right to set its own immigration policy. They have the right to defend their borders and prioritize the needs of their own citizens.
Hilarious. Clearly those perfuntory efforts did not stop 11+ million from remaining illegally or those deported coming back several times.
More due process for Haitians would be appropriate but Dominican Republic does have the right to set its own immigration policy. They have the right to defend their borders and prioritize the needs of their own citizens.
17
Undocumented Dominicans are almost our entire workforce here, starting wage $20/hr for construction, domestic, and landscaping help. US customs and VI police mostly turn blind eye, but pick only on Haitians to show some sort of customs/arrest 'quota' being met. Everyone here knows the entrance points for undocumented. Large sums of money leave the VI each Friday pay day and are sent back to Dominican Republic. I am morally saddened by the unfairness of both the Dominican Republic and ourselves, the US citizens. in the VI.
40
And those Dominicans should be deported from the USVI just as anyone else that is there illegally should. Just because the USVI authorities are useless in enforcing the immigration laws doesn't mean the DR should let all Haitians in. What kind of logic is that? Please....
1
I don't live there so its hard to have a concrete opinion, but these countries benefit from working together and should work to improve their relationship and joint future. Maybe Haitian need greater access to work visas or another solution so that workers from Haiti can come when appropriate. I bet part of the problem has been due to ineffectiveness of some Dominican public services. In my last two visits in the past three years, they seemed to have quite a lot of corruption and public services problems. My cousin kept having to pay bribes to the police for made up offenses. Transit rules are the worse I've seen. It was a mess. Including the racial element such as asking for papers primarily to darker skinned people is horrible. There are Dominicans of every color. Someone being darker doesn't make him Haitian. If someone was born in the DR and they never had papers regardless of whether or not their parents are from Haiti or the DR but they personally have never been to Haiti, they should not be sent to a country they have not lived in. They should be Dominicans if they were born in the Dominican Republic with or without papers. The country you lived most of your life in is your home. I don't know about the details of this situation and one article only says a fraction of what is going on, but there is a history of racism in the Dominican-Haiti relationship. Making assumptions based on skin color is messed up. Dominican businesses have also benefit from Haitian workers.
15
“If I went to America without papers, I would be deported,” he said. “What’s the difference?”
Actually sir that is not the case. The Obama administration seeks to "integrate" illegal immigrants and in many cities, jails won't turn over immigrants that ICE wants. In San Francisco one lady was recently killed by a man deported 5 times. He was arrested and released even though ICE had placed a hold on him. Since San Francisco is a sanctuary city, it wouldn't be right to hold him for ICE.
So by all means come to America without papers, odds are nothing will happen to you.
Actually sir that is not the case. The Obama administration seeks to "integrate" illegal immigrants and in many cities, jails won't turn over immigrants that ICE wants. In San Francisco one lady was recently killed by a man deported 5 times. He was arrested and released even though ICE had placed a hold on him. Since San Francisco is a sanctuary city, it wouldn't be right to hold him for ICE.
So by all means come to America without papers, odds are nothing will happen to you.
15
Oh look, another article widely overly distorting the real number of deportations here in America...
12
Actually, Obama's administration has been the one that has deported more illegal immigrants than any other. Is a fact. Also, legal immigrants. If you drink and drive and get cought , you are likely to face deportation even with a green card.
1
You mean like the guy who was deported-five times no less- who "allegedly" murdered the woman in San Francisco last week? That deportation policy?
1
Leading Dominicans (one of them a friend of mine) have been up in DC for months warning Congress and the Administration that a crack down was coming and seeking help or at least understanding.
The Dominican Republic, which once was subject to Haiti, has long been on the edge of being overwhelmed demographically by illegal migration from its poorer neighbor. Lest we forgot, the DR's awful dictator Rafael Trujillo sponsored a pogrom of Haitian immigrants in the 1930s which resulted in about 30,000 deaths.
This is a recurring story. And it is part of a larger story, which the NYT article to its credit mentions: the cursed peoples of the planet are on the move in unprecedented numbers to escape their fate, and the receiving countries (be it the Dominican Republic, the US, or the European Union) do not want their cultures, economic systems, and demography fundamentally altered by this inundation. And this is just the beginning. Wait until climate change wreaks its devastation.
We are facing a world with many places in peril, many people trying to escape, and the "rich" countries of the world wishing to preserve their "lifeboats" from inundation by refugees. And frankly, in my humble opinion, it is their right to do so rather than capsizing and losing their national identities. The Dominican Republic is a small and relatively poor example of this worldwide phenomenon, but it is a "canary in the coal mine" whose plight is instructive to the more developed world.
The Dominican Republic, which once was subject to Haiti, has long been on the edge of being overwhelmed demographically by illegal migration from its poorer neighbor. Lest we forgot, the DR's awful dictator Rafael Trujillo sponsored a pogrom of Haitian immigrants in the 1930s which resulted in about 30,000 deaths.
This is a recurring story. And it is part of a larger story, which the NYT article to its credit mentions: the cursed peoples of the planet are on the move in unprecedented numbers to escape their fate, and the receiving countries (be it the Dominican Republic, the US, or the European Union) do not want their cultures, economic systems, and demography fundamentally altered by this inundation. And this is just the beginning. Wait until climate change wreaks its devastation.
We are facing a world with many places in peril, many people trying to escape, and the "rich" countries of the world wishing to preserve their "lifeboats" from inundation by refugees. And frankly, in my humble opinion, it is their right to do so rather than capsizing and losing their national identities. The Dominican Republic is a small and relatively poor example of this worldwide phenomenon, but it is a "canary in the coal mine" whose plight is instructive to the more developed world.
104
As in all things political, it is a cost/benefit issue. Do these Haitian's create more value then they cost. Apparently the tipping point has been reached, in that it is tipped to keeping the Haitians is starting to have significant costs to the DR. These issues are at the core of any immigration problem. You see it in Europe, the US etc. Closing one's borders is the trend, for in doing so you stop serious economic and social problems. 'Sharing' is going out of style.
8
How would all of the Dominicans in the United States who are in the country illegally feel if they were put in this situation? I'm sure they wouldn't be feeling too happy. Most countries today are made up of immigrants, like it or not. At one point weren't all of our ancestors immigrants?? My parents families can't here from another country. With all of the misery going on in all corners of the world, show a little compassion! for those that have less than nothing!!
8
If you are an illegal you are a criminal and should be charged as such.
14
Did your parents go to the US illegally? Guess not....
Those Dominican illegals that you say should be deported ARE are deported all the time. Happens every day. And yet you don't hear the DR government complaining about that and accusing the US of being racist. Something people tend to forget when Martelly gets up on his soapbox and begins to hammer the DR for enforcing its immigration laws.
Those Dominican illegals that you say should be deported ARE are deported all the time. Happens every day. And yet you don't hear the DR government complaining about that and accusing the US of being racist. Something people tend to forget when Martelly gets up on his soapbox and begins to hammer the DR for enforcing its immigration laws.
1
When the economy is bad nationalism on the Dominican Government must step forward and take the Democracy in the communities of the right to freedom equality values between generations of workers from young people aged less individualism and more opportunities for solidarity for all
Two halves of one small island and yet with such different economies?
Haiti will always be a basket case until they risk the wrath of France and follow the recent example of a small African country and ditch the national language, French.
Haiti will always be a basket case until they risk the wrath of France and follow the recent example of a small African country and ditch the national language, French.
4
First of all, the national language of most Haitians is not French.
It is a creole patois that formed as the African languages mixed with French.
French is the language of the small mulato ruling class that replaced the French after independence.
However, the novel "El reino de este mundo" (literally the Kingdom of This World) by the Cuban writer Alejo Carpentier is an excellent fictional story about Haiti because there is so much truth in it.
It is a creole patois that formed as the African languages mixed with French.
French is the language of the small mulato ruling class that replaced the French after independence.
However, the novel "El reino de este mundo" (literally the Kingdom of This World) by the Cuban writer Alejo Carpentier is an excellent fictional story about Haiti because there is so much truth in it.
1
As a Black woman with American and Caribbean roots and in spite of the beautiful places that my Dominican co-worker tells me about, I will never visit the D.R. I've heard too many stories about Black people being denied entry to certain night clubs, discrimination against Haitians, and the legacy of Trujillo. Yes. Haiti needs to get its affairs in order; however, what will deporting them solve? Who's going to cut that precious sugar cane for next to nothing? Dominicans? Besides it seems like the government has a hard time distinguishing between the two. How many actual Dominicans will be deported accidentally because they look Haitian. Hopefully, they won't perform the parsley test as Trujillo did in 1937 to make the distinction.
26
Ohhh Candace, we will miss you soooo much........where would you prefer to go on your next vacation ?? a confederate southern state in the US ?? Alabama, Missisipi, South Carolina ?? ......Or if you are up for a more exotic far away vacation, what about Tunisia ?? Happy travels Candace.
6
And guess who is discriminating the Haitians? Yes those other Caribbean countries, all members of a circus known as CARICOM and the head clown of that joke organization is Gonsalves of St. Vincent. They are the first to condemn the DR for enforcing its laws and then they go out and round up the Haitians and deport them. So I hope you don't spend your dollars anywhere in the Caribbean. That way you won't look like a hypocrite.
I may be wrong, but I believe it's not uncommon for people born in rural areas of the Dominican Republic to not have paperwork proving their citizenship.
Also, the writers of the New York Times should have drawn a much more substantial parallel to the expulsion/massacre under the Trujillo regime. They could have easily pointed out how that disaster ended up in blatant, violent racism -- if someone "looked" Haitian, but were in fact Dominican, and did not have papers, government soldiers either kicked him/her out or killed him/her.
Also, the writers of the New York Times should have drawn a much more substantial parallel to the expulsion/massacre under the Trujillo regime. They could have easily pointed out how that disaster ended up in blatant, violent racism -- if someone "looked" Haitian, but were in fact Dominican, and did not have papers, government soldiers either kicked him/her out or killed him/her.
9
You are correct! However the article misstates the number of Haitians massacred by Trujillo. It has been corrected in recent years to have been 30,000-32,000! Many were invited by the Trujillo regime to work in the cane fields, on entry their documents were confiscated to prevent them from returning to Haiti before the end of the harvest. Then the bottom fell out of the world sugar market. They weren't needed any more and were ordered to leave in 1937. When they refused were rounded up by the DR military and slaughtered in the very fields they'd been invited to work in! Many older Dominicans from La Frontera remember this horrific episode in gruesome detail. Beloved neighbors & servants were hidden, but hunted down in a house to house search by the military, many of whom were drunk, armed with machetes & guns. The world turned a blind eye and only acknowledged est 10,000 dead,the figure used in the article, when the Haitian government complained to the international court.
1
This is a very good journalistic piece of work, factual without editorial touches. In contrast, Mr. Katz’s article The Dominican Time Bomb (http://nyti.ms/1H48QSE ) editorializes, glosses over important historical issues, and hints that the difficulties that Haitians face in the Dominican Republic are simply a problem of racism. This paper provides a balanced view of the situation. We need more articles like this in the Times.
I only wish that the Dominican Republic stands to the challenge it is facing, and deals with the situation in a compassionate and human way.
I only wish that the Dominican Republic stands to the challenge it is facing, and deals with the situation in a compassionate and human way.
5
I could not agree more. Katz' article conveniently avoids mention of the fact that Haiti invaded the Dominican Republic in 1822 just one year after independence and occupied it for over 20 years stripping the country of its wealth, Hatian soldiers raping thousands of women and confiscating Dominican owned land. Haiti invaded the DR on four other occasions There is good reason for Dominican fear of Haiti and its desire to expel illegal aliens and secure its borders.
13
Thank you for pointing out how awful that Katz article was. It also missed key points in Haitian-Dominican history, including the fact that Haiti and DR were one country when Haiti ruled DR from 1822 to 1844, and left out any discussion of the current crisis with Haiti's government, which is exacerbating the crisis. On top of it, Katz began his article claiming that he expected to report on "tourism, baseball, corruption and drug trafficking." Not on Dominican society and culture in their specificities, but on pre-selected, stereotypical, narrow-minded assumptions. Lastly, I agree also with your wish for how DR deals with this crisis: with compassion, humanity, and fairness. Please involve Haiti's government (what's left of it) and other countries to ensure that things do not get out of hand.
5
This is not a welfare state. The country is nearly half Haitian, and they are doing a lot of the work for $3 a day. What will happen to the economy without them?
16
There must be more to this than what has been reported. It definitely sounds like planned cruelty.
1
Might it not put upward pressure on wages?
1
I think this is a lesson for those in America who believe that deporting ALL the illegals from America would be a great idea.
Who then would work some of the nastiest jobs in America: slaughter houses, stoop picking veggies, and other less than suitable jobs for Americans who think they ALL should be white collar workers.
Who then would work some of the nastiest jobs in America: slaughter houses, stoop picking veggies, and other less than suitable jobs for Americans who think they ALL should be white collar workers.
1
I believe this policy is racist. This reminds me of the nazis deporting people to their doom.
Every country has a right to control immigration but, It does not have the right to pluck whole families from multiple generations and plop them at the border of the poorest country in the western hemisphere. What would they say if Puerto Rico did the same to the Dominicans who illegally migrate there during their unprecedented economic crisis.
We have to enforce our immigration laws but not at the expense of the poor.
Every country has a right to control immigration but, It does not have the right to pluck whole families from multiple generations and plop them at the border of the poorest country in the western hemisphere. What would they say if Puerto Rico did the same to the Dominicans who illegally migrate there during their unprecedented economic crisis.
We have to enforce our immigration laws but not at the expense of the poor.
60
So the Dominican government has to carry on the mistakes of the Haitian government that doesn't do any kind of effort to help his own people, and what about the international community what have they done to help Haiti, they are almost 300,000 Haitians registered in the naturalization plan offered by the Dominican government but they cannot do more alone. You should verify this information and then make your comment. Thank You.
36
Nothing because that is the law and it must be complied with. Simple! These individuals were given a year to provide proof of citizenship and that is a birth certificate. How come 365 days wasn't enough to gather the documents? Must you be so worry why don't you accept them freely in your land?
24
Of course, because we all know the history of how the nazis put in place a regularization process that allowed Jewish without documents to regularize their situation and become German citizens. Germans were also known for their generosity in taking in poor Jewish women in labor who crossed the border from foreign countries and allowing them to use their hospital at not cost to them.
That sound very different from what I was taught, but hey...you're the history major here apparently.
That sound very different from what I was taught, but hey...you're the history major here apparently.
6
Take your vacation dollars anywhere but Punta Cana.
43
Don't believe everything you read... Most of the international media is biased and condemning without proof. The DR has been the most helpful when it comes to ties with Haiti. I invite all of those tourist that want to help to take their "Punta Cana dollars" to Haiti. Have a beautiful day!
33
Oh, were you planning on visiting? Well, sorry that you won't be coming. You can instead use your money to help Haiti since you are so concerned. Haiti's government is the main violator of human rights in the western hemisphere. They don't provide documentation to their own people inside the country, do not educate them, does not provide health services, don't have a functioning justice system, do not help in creating jobs or help create a sustainable environment. Do you support that? Has you spoken out about that? Or the only Haitians that really matter are those that manage to cross the border?
Out of 500,000 undocumented immigrants the DR government was able to regularize 350,000. Those that couldn't finish the process did not quality (plan was only open to those arriving before 2011) or couldn't get documents from the Haitian government proving who they were. Was the Dominican government suppose to accept all takers just on their word ("Oh yeah, I came in 10 years ago and my name is John Doe..."). Even those that are leaving voluntarily can apply to enter the country back in legally if they get their papers in order.
Out of 500,000 undocumented immigrants the DR government was able to regularize 350,000. Those that couldn't finish the process did not quality (plan was only open to those arriving before 2011) or couldn't get documents from the Haitian government proving who they were. Was the Dominican government suppose to accept all takers just on their word ("Oh yeah, I came in 10 years ago and my name is John Doe..."). Even those that are leaving voluntarily can apply to enter the country back in legally if they get their papers in order.
17
Peki, you can you vacation euros (or are they still Krones ??) to Tunisia any time you want. Good luck.......and please let us know how open isn Denmark to illegal immigration. Talk is cheap.......
8