Why are the details--i.e., let's face it, the real significance and impact--of these not made known? The Times Editorial writes they have been "understandably" kept secret. It's more understandable that no one would in his right mind would agree to something that he hasn't seen. What do the President and his (mostly) Republican backers take us for?
29
Our president and lawmakers are, therefore, about to commit high treason against the people of the United States. Invasive species contaminated biological material trade goods entering this nation every day due to inadequate inspections resulting from "free trade" agreements are devastating our ecosystems, and are a major cause of the ongoing 6th mass extinction. A lethal pandemic or terrorist nuclear bomb that is sure to enter this nation via our leaders' reckless greed obsessed open borders mania ... and kill many millions will be on their head. We should set up the mechanisms to record who voted for these treasons, so we can immediately arrest and do mass executions of our political class nobility as soon as these catastrophes occur. A recent article in The Economist reported that the US can not require that meat raised in Canada and Mexico have a label saying where it came from because of a successful challenge to the WHO trade commission. Adequate inspections to stop invasive species invasions have been gutted in the same way. We can only hope that the terrorist nuke is on a ship in New York harbor, so at least our citizens can get some measure of justice knowing that the many of the most treasonous of our corporate and political leaders received just punishment for their greed and stupidity - did not get to exodus like escape to Sweden or some place in Northern Europe where $$$ does not determine everything that happens.
6
The relationship is obvious and direct. What is good for the Republicans is very bad for us citizens.
13
The Obama presidency must be a God send for the Republicans if that's true.
8
Why do the leaked provisions of this act clearly demonstrate the benefits being conferred solely on the corporate entity? From what little has been disclosed, this seems to be an act to benefit multinational corporations, to extend profits on intellectual properties to extend big pharma profits and for good measure, is riddled with compensation to preemptively confer to corporations for possible future losses due to legislative actions.
Will this TPP increase corporate profits? No question. Will the average American receive any benefit? Very doubtful.
Will this TPP increase corporate profits? No question. Will the average American receive any benefit? Very doubtful.
28
Obama's TPP will end sovereignty and greatly diminish the power of congress and state and local government since there will be countless rules, regulations and laws that can be superceded by the Tribunals decisions.
The cost of lobbying and elections will go down as these officials all become eunuchs in one form or another. Perhaps some day the Supreme Court will recognize this event as the biggest manipulation since 1776 and act accordingly.
It is going to be a dramatically different country
The cost of lobbying and elections will go down as these officials all become eunuchs in one form or another. Perhaps some day the Supreme Court will recognize this event as the biggest manipulation since 1776 and act accordingly.
It is going to be a dramatically different country
15
It's been said before, but it needs to be said again and again:
Single payer Medicare for all,
Robust infrastructure development,
Increased minimum wage,
Climate change action,
Corporate tax reform and increases,
Free public education AND/OR student debt relief....
None of THESE issues which the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT have any chance of bipartisan support, but this democracy and environment-destroying sop to corporations sails right through. Dick Durbin: "Wall Street owns the place".
AND THE KICKER: Hopey-Changey con artist Obama, yet another electoral disappointment, is PROUD of this?
Being politically aware and engaged in this country is exhausting, infuriating and depressing. Now I understand why people just don't care and simply give up and don't vote or even talk about politics. It's enough to make you sick.
Single payer Medicare for all,
Robust infrastructure development,
Increased minimum wage,
Climate change action,
Corporate tax reform and increases,
Free public education AND/OR student debt relief....
None of THESE issues which the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT have any chance of bipartisan support, but this democracy and environment-destroying sop to corporations sails right through. Dick Durbin: "Wall Street owns the place".
AND THE KICKER: Hopey-Changey con artist Obama, yet another electoral disappointment, is PROUD of this?
Being politically aware and engaged in this country is exhausting, infuriating and depressing. Now I understand why people just don't care and simply give up and don't vote or even talk about politics. It's enough to make you sick.
28
The rest of us are definitely masochists.
3
The problem with TPP is that for many of us, the promises and rationales do not pass the smell test. Given the track record of previous trade agreements and those who have advocated for them, skepticism seems like simple prudence.
There's more than a little evidence that TPP isn't about trade so much as it is about geopolitics and setting limits on China's ambitions in the region and the world, while preserving a U.S. centric politico-military-economic dominance. It's not an agenda that can be discussed openly; it's also suggested that the alleged giveaways to corporations are a bribe to get their help in pushing it through.
There's more than a little evidence that TPP isn't about trade so much as it is about geopolitics and setting limits on China's ambitions in the region and the world, while preserving a U.S. centric politico-military-economic dominance. It's not an agenda that can be discussed openly; it's also suggested that the alleged giveaways to corporations are a bribe to get their help in pushing it through.
10
"President Obama Must Use Trade Authority to Reach Better Agreements"
Hahahahahahahahaha...
For whom? (Hint: look who wrote it.)
President Last Chance decided to blow our last chance. Oh, well, maybe future generations will have the history re-written for them so that their neo-feudalistic dystopia on planet hellhole handed down to them is like somebody born blind thinks everybody is blind because nobody told them different. Then they won't hate the Boomers and their parents so much.
Hahahahahahahahaha...
For whom? (Hint: look who wrote it.)
President Last Chance decided to blow our last chance. Oh, well, maybe future generations will have the history re-written for them so that their neo-feudalistic dystopia on planet hellhole handed down to them is like somebody born blind thinks everybody is blind because nobody told them different. Then they won't hate the Boomers and their parents so much.
9
Why would we retrain workers to less skilled or service jobs when we can prevent the loss of their skilled jobs in the first place?
Normally I support the president and normally I like what he does, but not this time. There are too many unsavory, unknown, unproven items in the TPP. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are right on this one; if it's put into place, it will tarnish Obama's legacy, not burnish it.
Normally I support the president and normally I like what he does, but not this time. There are too many unsavory, unknown, unproven items in the TPP. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are right on this one; if it's put into place, it will tarnish Obama's legacy, not burnish it.
29
The retraining programs are seen as an elaborate—and superficially dignified—way for a man to get a welfare check.
8
The worst aspect of these deals is the provision that allows international corporations to sue for damages (which taxpayers will shell out) and then to override any nation's democratically enacted laws when the corporation's profits are adversely affected by national laws. This in effect negates the point of democratically elected legislators - and their decisions.
Will we vote for the CEOs who appoint the tribunals who make those decisions? Not likely at all. THIS should be the reason no elected representative of US citizens should vote for the fast track or the treaty, and THIS is why it's treason to do so.
Will we vote for the CEOs who appoint the tribunals who make those decisions? Not likely at all. THIS should be the reason no elected representative of US citizens should vote for the fast track or the treaty, and THIS is why it's treason to do so.
20
How come TPP is a fast track bill, but for Universal Healthcare it is taking more than 40 years??
Here are the problems with TPP
Investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS): It is a dangerous as a foreign corporation can sue the decision our government makes. Example, Philip Morris suing Uruguay government
Currency manipulation: Foreign counties like Vietnam will do currency manipulations (example, shoe manufacturing) and American middle class jobs will be lost.
Hidden from public: Middle class doesn’t know what is written in TPP.
Conclusion: TPP will not help in containing China
To contain China, 100% Tariffs/Taxes must be imposed on "Made in China" products.
Solution: TPP and NAFTA must be repealed
Reduce taxes to zero for "Made in USA" products.
Here are the problems with TPP
Investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS): It is a dangerous as a foreign corporation can sue the decision our government makes. Example, Philip Morris suing Uruguay government
Currency manipulation: Foreign counties like Vietnam will do currency manipulations (example, shoe manufacturing) and American middle class jobs will be lost.
Hidden from public: Middle class doesn’t know what is written in TPP.
Conclusion: TPP will not help in containing China
To contain China, 100% Tariffs/Taxes must be imposed on "Made in China" products.
Solution: TPP and NAFTA must be repealed
Reduce taxes to zero for "Made in USA" products.
21
Do you think that President Clinton granting "Permanent Normal Trade Relation" trade status to Communist China and his signing NAFTA into law had anything to do with US jobs relocating to Communist China?
I agree, but we cannot put the cat back into the bag! Most all of the wealth creating US businesses have left the USA and are now gone forever!
The US workers are doomed, thanks to NAFTA, PNTR for communist China, etc.
I agree, but we cannot put the cat back into the bag! Most all of the wealth creating US businesses have left the USA and are now gone forever!
The US workers are doomed, thanks to NAFTA, PNTR for communist China, etc.
2
When someone disagrees with you, you might do well to try to find out why, rather than just denouncing them as the sons and daughters of Satan. In that spirit, I invite Karen Garcia and Norman Pollack to read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged," Ludwig von Mises's "Socialism," and F.A. Hayek's "Road to Serfdom."
There is displayed by the fanatical anti-TPP loudmouths what can only be defined as a blatant non-understanding of the way capitalism functions and the way living standards and technology improve and the way society advances under a market system. You cannot move to a protectionist, nativistic mindset of disallowing the free-flow of goods and people or else you will set back all of us in the long run, including the very workers you are trying to protect.
Good intentions without wisdom and understanding often end up creating the worst imaginable circumstances for everyone. I know you guys think democratic socialism is (1) possible and (2) desirable and that defending America's interests around the world is simply defending the interests of the plutocrats who have highjacked our democracy. But the former is idiotic; the latter, flat wrong. What some of you want is an ochlocracy to replace the representational system.
Capitalism's done so much good, here at home and around the world. Please let's not espouse revolution and ruin because we think it incapable of reform. And Republicans: Keep it up and revolution is what you will get.
There is displayed by the fanatical anti-TPP loudmouths what can only be defined as a blatant non-understanding of the way capitalism functions and the way living standards and technology improve and the way society advances under a market system. You cannot move to a protectionist, nativistic mindset of disallowing the free-flow of goods and people or else you will set back all of us in the long run, including the very workers you are trying to protect.
Good intentions without wisdom and understanding often end up creating the worst imaginable circumstances for everyone. I know you guys think democratic socialism is (1) possible and (2) desirable and that defending America's interests around the world is simply defending the interests of the plutocrats who have highjacked our democracy. But the former is idiotic; the latter, flat wrong. What some of you want is an ochlocracy to replace the representational system.
Capitalism's done so much good, here at home and around the world. Please let's not espouse revolution and ruin because we think it incapable of reform. And Republicans: Keep it up and revolution is what you will get.
1
Capitalism is a tool, a system, that can give varying results depending on who is at the controls and what their objectives are. It's not a magical 'way' that automatically generates a better world if left to its own devices. Blind worship of capitalism is as delusional as doctrinaire Marxism.
There are quite a few places in the world where democratic socialism seems to work pretty well; and that can include capitalism when it is seen as part of a larger design, and not an end in itself. Rand, von Mises, Hayek - their gospel doesn't hold up in the real world.
There are quite a few places in the world where democratic socialism seems to work pretty well; and that can include capitalism when it is seen as part of a larger design, and not an end in itself. Rand, von Mises, Hayek - their gospel doesn't hold up in the real world.
8
David L, Jr.,
Individual Free Market Capitalism probably started before recorded history when a successful cave hunter returned to his cave and traded parts of his dead animal to other members of his cave clan for some fruit the other member has in his/her possession, or maybe something else of value such as a weapon or sexual services.
Foreign Trade between clans probably started when a successful hunter passing the cave of another clan might have traded some of his dead animal parts for that other clan’s things of value such as a weapons, tools or sexual services.
Traders took chances by approaching foreigners because those foreigners might have just killed the hunter and taken his possessions if the hunter was not also a good warrior to defend himself.
The hunter’s tribe would also probably descend onto foreign hunters that wandered into their areas of control and then kill them for their possessions.
Pirates at sea also killed their hapless victims on the high seas when the victims were caught by the pirates on the high seas.
During the Westward trek of the pioneers to settle the West in the late 19th century, the Mormons stopped and killed the westward pioneers and settlers that encountered the Mormons, who then took all of the traveler’s possessions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
Traders and other foreign travelers must be prepared to defend themselves from attack at all times with the best weapons that they can afford from all strangers when they travel between safe harbors on land or at sea.
Maybe not much has changed within human inter-relations, tribal instincts, herd mentality, social relations and etc. since the beginning of time!
Individual Free Market Capitalism probably started before recorded history when a successful cave hunter returned to his cave and traded parts of his dead animal to other members of his cave clan for some fruit the other member has in his/her possession, or maybe something else of value such as a weapon or sexual services.
Foreign Trade between clans probably started when a successful hunter passing the cave of another clan might have traded some of his dead animal parts for that other clan’s things of value such as a weapons, tools or sexual services.
Traders took chances by approaching foreigners because those foreigners might have just killed the hunter and taken his possessions if the hunter was not also a good warrior to defend himself.
The hunter’s tribe would also probably descend onto foreign hunters that wandered into their areas of control and then kill them for their possessions.
Pirates at sea also killed their hapless victims on the high seas when the victims were caught by the pirates on the high seas.
During the Westward trek of the pioneers to settle the West in the late 19th century, the Mormons stopped and killed the westward pioneers and settlers that encountered the Mormons, who then took all of the traveler’s possessions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
Traders and other foreign travelers must be prepared to defend themselves from attack at all times with the best weapons that they can afford from all strangers when they travel between safe harbors on land or at sea.
Maybe not much has changed within human inter-relations, tribal instincts, herd mentality, social relations and etc. since the beginning of time!
2
So...you're saying everybody's doing better since NAFTA? Bigger and more prosperous middle class, higher wages, excellent benefits, job security, better education? You might want to rethink that position. Revolution is what we need.
10
A secret trade deal giving a president caught in dozens of lies and cannot be trusted to tell the American people the truth, unfettered power to make his own trade agreements with no oversight.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?
12
The silence of Mrs. Clinton on this issue speaks volumes about her and should turn Democrats toward Bernie Sanders. There is no "new Hillary." There's just old fashioned duplicitous politics.
18
Well a better outcome would be that US workers get more jobs than today. I don't care about treatment of workers in other countries, that is their business. I do care that every so called "trade bill" results in us purchasing stuff that supports foreign jobs. That has to be addressed. We also need to keep out such idiotic ideas as global warming being in a trade agreement. Trade always makes carbon so less would be better. Simple!!!
It's not about "getting the best deal" It's about people being included in deciding what the best deal should be.
The conservatives have sold our democracy to the highest bidder.
The conservatives have sold our democracy to the highest bidder.
14
It's a pity the President is getting all the blame for the plight of the American worker when he's been fighting for six long years for us against Republicans who oppose everything and anything that might help the working class. It's been Republican business interest and their refusal to pay living wages, offshoring business, dodging taxes, and their hanging all the costs of healthcare and college around our necks, etc etc, that is to blame for how squeezed we feel. And to those who say there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans? That's what Nader said.
5
Fast track is not just a bad idea for reasons of political philosophy - it is patently unconstitutional
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/fast-track-violates-the-u-s-const...
Alan Grayson is no slouch:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-alan-grayson/the-fast-track-trade-bill...
When the likes of Alan Grayson and Bruce Fein are in agreement with Ron Paul... it means that it is virtually certain that the bill in question is both unconstitutional and harmful to civil liberties.
I think the Editorial Board should rethink its position on this one.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/fast-track-violates-the-u-s-const...
Alan Grayson is no slouch:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-alan-grayson/the-fast-track-trade-bill...
When the likes of Alan Grayson and Bruce Fein are in agreement with Ron Paul... it means that it is virtually certain that the bill in question is both unconstitutional and harmful to civil liberties.
I think the Editorial Board should rethink its position on this one.
30
There's a reason that many trade unions in Europe support TTIP and other trade agreements - because there is not the degree of disparity between the owner/executives and the workers. Therefore unions and the middle class feel like they are stakeholders in the prosperity created by free and fair trade. If US corporations and leaders want to continue to promote free trade they need to also focus on decreasing that wage disparity. For good reason the 99% doesn't trust the 1% in America. Business is creating the noose by which to hang itself. We need these trade agreements for the good of our country - I just wish the large corporations cared as much about our country as the working class does.
32
Well, at least President Obama has guaranteed his legacy: speeches at $400,000 a pop.
23
How can secret trade deals be considered legal in a free society? We offer more freedom to terrorist nations than we can get for ourselves. Without a manufacturing base these trade deals make no sense at all and yet our government is spending most of its time on them. These deals have turned liberals into rightwing zealots and has made the conservative voter embrace those in the John Birch Society. We are now in a constitutional crisis, where money itself has more rights than people. People are taxed and regulated. Big money is not.
11
"How can secret trade deals be considered legal in a free society?"....It is the negotiations that are secret. When the negotiations are completed the proposed trade deal will be made public before it is voted on by Congress.
4
Who negotiates this trade deal makes no difference to me. I understand that we need to have trade agreements. They are essential to maintaining our influence in the world. Without such agreements our industries and commerce generally would weaken and fail. America must be a part of the larger economic community.
What I don't understand is why our country would enter into agreements that might advantage a corporation, but is going to hurt American workers. NAFTA was sold to us by another Democratic President who assured us that it would be good for the economy. It was. That President convinced us that American workers would benefit. We didn't and haven't and won't.
We don't need assurances. We need raises, and good affordable medical care and work benefits that are comparable to the Western European nations, and jobs that last. Sign a trade agreement that does those things for American workers and forget about the job displacement/retraining bill that has to be passed.
Finally, why should American taxpayers have to pay to retrain workers who have been displaced because an American corporation wants a trade deal that makes its investors and owners rich? Tell me that!
I don't care who negotiates this deal, but it better work of the workers!
What I don't understand is why our country would enter into agreements that might advantage a corporation, but is going to hurt American workers. NAFTA was sold to us by another Democratic President who assured us that it would be good for the economy. It was. That President convinced us that American workers would benefit. We didn't and haven't and won't.
We don't need assurances. We need raises, and good affordable medical care and work benefits that are comparable to the Western European nations, and jobs that last. Sign a trade agreement that does those things for American workers and forget about the job displacement/retraining bill that has to be passed.
Finally, why should American taxpayers have to pay to retrain workers who have been displaced because an American corporation wants a trade deal that makes its investors and owners rich? Tell me that!
I don't care who negotiates this deal, but it better work of the workers!
19
Why should we have more "influence in the world" than any other country. Our pride and notions of "exceptionalism" have brought us down already, in case you haven't noticed.
7
World trade as enacted in legislation by Congress has been great for the hoarders of the world’s and nation’s wealth that have no allegiance to the people of any land. Good trade that served well the Amirian people would be in goods made by Americans in exchange for other goods made by Americans.
The hitch in this is that what is stocked in and sold out of box stores and what mom-and-pop operation that are left is not made in America by Americans. A look at communities across what was once prosperous rural Iowa shows the decay and rot left behind as corporate conglomerates move their production to lands in which human toil is conducted under slave labor conditions.
All of this supposed great trade and production is to render greater efficiency---such that only serves those that pay and play power politics from atop a mound of hoarded wealth and from which they rake and take more in service to their insatiable greed as more and more people live on.shrinking margins where they increasingly become expendable waste to be left behind in rust and rot.
The hitch in this is that what is stocked in and sold out of box stores and what mom-and-pop operation that are left is not made in America by Americans. A look at communities across what was once prosperous rural Iowa shows the decay and rot left behind as corporate conglomerates move their production to lands in which human toil is conducted under slave labor conditions.
All of this supposed great trade and production is to render greater efficiency---such that only serves those that pay and play power politics from atop a mound of hoarded wealth and from which they rake and take more in service to their insatiable greed as more and more people live on.shrinking margins where they increasingly become expendable waste to be left behind in rust and rot.
15
Well Gee as the country with the massive demand every "trade agreement" ends up with us buying cheaper goods and forgoing jobs that might make them domestically. Simple!!!
3
In general, I am an Obama supporter, but not in his desire to participate in more trade agreements. If unions and environmentalists and Elizabeth Warren oppose it, and if it provides outsized benefits to big corporations, I cannot see why Obama supports it. I urge Democrats to vote against it. We have already given the big corporations too much welfare. Come on, Obama, forget this bill!
22
The negotiations have not been completed so perhaps a better question is why would anybody oppose it before they know what is in it?
1
Elephant lover, you cannot see why Obama supports it?
Follow the money.
Follow the money.
9
Look who supports it and who doesn't. That's one way
3
Secrecy in trade agreements, secrecy in drones, secrecy in wars abroad, secrecy in surveillance, secrecy in government records, etc., etc.
What a wonderful democracy we got going here.
What a wonderful democracy we got going here.
27
"Secrecy in trade agreements"......There is no secrecy in trade agreements, only secrecy in the negotiation of trade agreements. When you play poker (negotiate) do you tell everyone at the table what cards you are holding before the betting is done?
2
One problem with your logic Mr. Spitzer--about 500 corporate lobbyists know exactly what the "deal" involves (since they are writing it) so it looks like the only folks at the table who are in the dark are the people it will actually effect. The game is fixed.
5
All we have to do is look at who is on the advisory panels to see how this will come out....
I see this as a strategic agreement to try to offset China's influence in the Pacific and cement relations with the EU. It is not about American jobs.. It provides a and glide path for the largest corporations to monopolize economic development and intellectual property and control prices and public policy.
The big surprise is that as soon as the ink is dry China will try to join the TPP. That should say where this is headed.
I see this as a strategic agreement to try to offset China's influence in the Pacific and cement relations with the EU. It is not about American jobs.. It provides a and glide path for the largest corporations to monopolize economic development and intellectual property and control prices and public policy.
The big surprise is that as soon as the ink is dry China will try to join the TPP. That should say where this is headed.
14
It would be a grave error to grant Fast Track authority to President Obama. He is a completely powerless president. He will not be in office long enough to protect anyone's interests. Congress is controlled by Republicans and will probably remain firmly in Republican control for the future. That means any trade agreements will be written by Republicans and favor their interests -- which sadly are not the interests of American workers and their families.
18
"The passage of this bill — primarily with Republican votes..." Huh? After non-stop obstruction from them, NOW they are supporting him on this...??? Something is not right with this 21st century NAFTA...
23
The Times' editorialists begrudgingly report the President's victory. This, after weeks and weeks of telling us readers how the President was humiliated in first one house of Congress and then the other.
It was obvious all along that the early battles were simply markers in the President's brilliant victory march. I personally commented twice that the Times was being unfair and short-sighted. For some reason, my comments were not published. Will this be?
The Times also had been wrong again and again in announcing the premature death of the Affordable Care Act as it worked its way through Congress. I ask the Times to take a longer-term perspective on typical legislative ups-and-downs.
Readers need to know that this President is the ultimate master strategist of our era, for great causes.
It was obvious all along that the early battles were simply markers in the President's brilliant victory march. I personally commented twice that the Times was being unfair and short-sighted. For some reason, my comments were not published. Will this be?
The Times also had been wrong again and again in announcing the premature death of the Affordable Care Act as it worked its way through Congress. I ask the Times to take a longer-term perspective on typical legislative ups-and-downs.
Readers need to know that this President is the ultimate master strategist of our era, for great causes.
2
Readers need to know that this President is the ultimate master strategist of our era, for great causes.
All we need to know is that multinational corporations, Wall Street, Big Pharma, and the Chamber of Commerce support the TPP. Unfortunately, President Obama is "master strategist" for the 1 percent.
All we need to know is that multinational corporations, Wall Street, Big Pharma, and the Chamber of Commerce support the TPP. Unfortunately, President Obama is "master strategist" for the 1 percent.
8
Obama's concern when he was critical of NAFTA was that it would lead to lost jobs in American economy. Those concerns are very real even now, as indicated by the fact that you and Obama are calling for TAA to help displaced workers get retraining.
The problem in this global marketplace is that there are very few areas in which displaced manufacturing workers can be retrained. The unions will lose their clout, and Dems will be demoralized.
Not a good omen.
The problem in this global marketplace is that there are very few areas in which displaced manufacturing workers can be retrained. The unions will lose their clout, and Dems will be demoralized.
Not a good omen.
16
All of the US jobs are relocated to foreign nations, so what jobs will the government retrain those workers to do?
The US service jobs such as flipping hamburgers, cleaning toilets, and selling insurance are still left in the USA but only because there is not much of any way to relocate those jobs to third world nations.
The US service jobs such as flipping hamburgers, cleaning toilets, and selling insurance are still left in the USA but only because there is not much of any way to relocate those jobs to third world nations.
10
Robots are coming that can flip burgers, file papers and drive buses.
3
Whether or not there is a trade agreement, it is a fact that there is an over abundance of cheap labor available in Asia. Whether or not there is a trade agreement jobs are going to chase a lower labor cost. We need jobs that can't be outsourced. We need to rebuild our infrastructure, and that has nothing to do with a trade agreement.
1
The Republicans have opposed almost everything Obama has proposed for 7 years, and yet now they "trust" him with enhanced trade authority? This sounds really suspicious.
22
If the Republicans are in favor of something be afraid, be very afraid, as things will end badly for the worker.
12
How can the USA ever possibility restart our basic industries (re-industrialize) to re-create the US jobs that the “Free Trade Agreements,” MFNs, and the PNTRs destroyed in the last twenty plus years?
Will that re-industrialization generate a positive balance of foreign trade to restore our economy, create privately owned wealth available for the government to confiscate a part to pay for government services and preserve the buying value of the US Dollar?
After the American Revolution, extremely high import tariffs were originally proposed by Alexander Hamilton, the first U.S. Secretary of the Treasury to help protect and create new American industries.
The US congress then instituted (extremely) high import tariffs to encourage the industrialization of the USA, and it was successful in establishing a positive balance of trade, accumulating Gold reserves, creating a manufacturing base in the USA, creating a human technical data base, and then making the USA independent from England for technology.
Those gentlemen were apparently much more intelligent than the last few US presidents and other elected politicians of today!
We must stop exchanging title to everything of value that is privately owned in America as required to get US dollars back from industrious foreigners in foreign countries to pay for our US government payrolls, government contracts and other government services, plus pay for the things that we import with US dollars paid to foreigners.
Will that re-industrialization generate a positive balance of foreign trade to restore our economy, create privately owned wealth available for the government to confiscate a part to pay for government services and preserve the buying value of the US Dollar?
After the American Revolution, extremely high import tariffs were originally proposed by Alexander Hamilton, the first U.S. Secretary of the Treasury to help protect and create new American industries.
The US congress then instituted (extremely) high import tariffs to encourage the industrialization of the USA, and it was successful in establishing a positive balance of trade, accumulating Gold reserves, creating a manufacturing base in the USA, creating a human technical data base, and then making the USA independent from England for technology.
Those gentlemen were apparently much more intelligent than the last few US presidents and other elected politicians of today!
We must stop exchanging title to everything of value that is privately owned in America as required to get US dollars back from industrious foreigners in foreign countries to pay for our US government payrolls, government contracts and other government services, plus pay for the things that we import with US dollars paid to foreigners.
7
Why don't US citizens realize that President Obama is economically requiring that US businesses export more and more (all) of the higher paying US technical manufacturing STEM jobs to foreign nations when US citizens refuse to work at these jobs at Third World Nation Wages with his creation of this multitude of new FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS with South Korea, Vietnam, Brunei, New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and Peru plus several other Asian and South American nations!
President Obama's TPP will relocate the remaining US jobs on a wholesale basis!
President Obama's TPP will relocate the remaining US jobs on a wholesale basis!
10
Can one actually believe that TPP will not survive an up or down vote when the Democrats in the Senate have already buckled under by agreeing to close off debate and allow TPP to proceed toward a simple majority vote without being tied to TAA? Regardless of whatever "deal" Obama is able to make, the Dems will cravenly pass it. They will then try to take political cover, but the deal will be done. Will it in fact contain the worker and environmental protections the NYT is recommending? Not if Obama's history of giving away the kitchen sink to enhance his "legacy" is any precedent.
8
The signing of NAFTA was followed by an unprecedented period of economic growth and low unemployment that lasted until the 9/11 wars and Bush economic policies. I remember getting bribed away from my 4-year college plan because companies were /that desperate/ for workers (I finished while working). Here's a primer - economic growth + low unemployment = good for the middle class. Economic growth + high unemployment = good for the 1%.
2
After Nafta our jobs and money went out of the country. Trade deficits to the moon and back with thousands of manufacturing plants outsourced because of Nafta. With our money going out of the country you can't invest in our nation's infrastructure, trade deficts don't equal infrastructure investment and that's what we're experiencing. All of our money has flooded out to China and guess what ? They have our infrastructure money to build theirs...trade deficits!
5
The President must bring down trade barriers and open fast developing countries to US products, services and intellectual property.
Through broader trade and rising middle class households around the world there is much greater chance for agreements on environmental solutions including access to family planning and population reduction and more renewable energy sources.
The problem with our trade agreements is mostly based on our inability to get other countries to actually open their markets.
Free societies with laws that protect contracts a highly educated and healthy work force can compete with low priced low skilled labor in countries that are limited in how they protect capital investment and contracts and often skim huge amounts of money off the top through basic corruption.
Where the US is failing behind is our infrastructure is no longer world class which includes how we move goods and services to market and the education of our population. Trade agreements are good for us but only if we are investing in our future infrastructure.
Cheap labor is only one small part of a healthy economy. The US has all the tools to make it a very small part of the equation in competing on a global scale. Protection is likely to incentives less investment and put us further behind the rest of the world.
Through broader trade and rising middle class households around the world there is much greater chance for agreements on environmental solutions including access to family planning and population reduction and more renewable energy sources.
The problem with our trade agreements is mostly based on our inability to get other countries to actually open their markets.
Free societies with laws that protect contracts a highly educated and healthy work force can compete with low priced low skilled labor in countries that are limited in how they protect capital investment and contracts and often skim huge amounts of money off the top through basic corruption.
Where the US is failing behind is our infrastructure is no longer world class which includes how we move goods and services to market and the education of our population. Trade agreements are good for us but only if we are investing in our future infrastructure.
Cheap labor is only one small part of a healthy economy. The US has all the tools to make it a very small part of the equation in competing on a global scale. Protection is likely to incentives less investment and put us further behind the rest of the world.
2
"But now the burden of proof will rest squarely on the shoulders of the president and his trade representative, Michael Froman."
The "burden of proof" is a moot point. The US congress, in lock step subservience to the corporate interests who bankroll their careers have voted to give the President (ANY President) the ability to approve secret international trade agreements without due representation. This is likely going to prove to be the final nail in the mythical idea of a US middle class.
Carter, before leaving office lowered taxes on the wealthy. Clinton, on his way out signed the Graham-Leach-Bliley act, effectively killing Glass-Steagall. Republican presidents re-route American treasure to the wealthy and powerful with blundering zeal. Democratic presidents do it as well, they just do it with a little more finesse.
The "burden of proof" is a moot point. The US congress, in lock step subservience to the corporate interests who bankroll their careers have voted to give the President (ANY President) the ability to approve secret international trade agreements without due representation. This is likely going to prove to be the final nail in the mythical idea of a US middle class.
Carter, before leaving office lowered taxes on the wealthy. Clinton, on his way out signed the Graham-Leach-Bliley act, effectively killing Glass-Steagall. Republican presidents re-route American treasure to the wealthy and powerful with blundering zeal. Democratic presidents do it as well, they just do it with a little more finesse.
24
The US FOREIGN TRADE DEFICIT has created an economic situation where US gold; US currency; stocks, title to US real estate, businesses, jobs, stocks, securities, other privately owned US wealth, and title to other assets created by previous US generations are leaving the USA to pay people in foreign countries to manufacture the things that US citizens import and consume, and also to pay for our US government spending when the US government spends more than it collects in taxes and borrows US dollars back from these industrial foreigners using title to US privately held TAXABLE NATIONAL WEALTH as mortgage collateral.
A positive Foreign Trade Balance indicates that the nation is a wealth generating industrialized nation.
The the USA and the EEC nations are mostly wealth consuming nations with a negative foreign trade balance and that indicates that nation to be a wealth consuming nation.
Maybe the USA and the EEC nations cannot afford to continue to borrow and then spend so much borrowed wealth on government activities such as rebuilding infrastructure, government payrolls, and other government activities that do not create new wealth.
How can the USA emulate the same economic policies that the Greek Government government implemented and expect a different outcome?
A positive Foreign Trade Balance indicates that the nation is a wealth generating industrialized nation.
The the USA and the EEC nations are mostly wealth consuming nations with a negative foreign trade balance and that indicates that nation to be a wealth consuming nation.
Maybe the USA and the EEC nations cannot afford to continue to borrow and then spend so much borrowed wealth on government activities such as rebuilding infrastructure, government payrolls, and other government activities that do not create new wealth.
How can the USA emulate the same economic policies that the Greek Government government implemented and expect a different outcome?
3
"How can the USA emulate the same economic policies that the Greek Government government implemented and expect a different outcome?"....It is really very simple. Greece has to pay off their debt in Euros which they can only get by selling their products abroad. The U.S. has to pay off its debt in dollars which it can print any time it wants. When you figure the interest rate on a T bill and the rate of inflation, right now other countries are in effect paying us to take their money, and all the time the value of the dollar continues to increase against most other currencies. Your worry is not consistent with what is actually happening in the real world.
1
Wayne A. Spitzer,
Printing and selling US Treasury Bonds and using the proceeds from those sales to pay for wealth consuming government services is not much different than if the USA just buys some paper and start printing paper US dollars (Fiat money) to pay for US government payrolls, government contracts and other government services, as many other nations have done.
When the US Government cannot borrow any more US Dollars back from foreigners in the industrialized BRIC nations by selling them freshly printed paper US sovereign treasury bonds, the US government might just print start printing paper (fiat) money to pay US government payrolls, pork barrel infrastructure contracts and other activities.
This will cause uncontrollable inflation
US citizens need to watch the Greek government’s actions very carefully, because the USA will be in the same situation when individuals in the industrialized wealth creating BRIC nations stop loaning the US government any more money (actually buying the freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds at auctions) to pay for US government services!
When this happens, the purchasing power of the US dollar will approach the value of toilet paper, and US society will degenerate into total anarchy similar to Somalia!
Printing and selling US Treasury Bonds and using the proceeds from those sales to pay for wealth consuming government services is not much different than if the USA just buys some paper and start printing paper US dollars (Fiat money) to pay for US government payrolls, government contracts and other government services, as many other nations have done.
When the US Government cannot borrow any more US Dollars back from foreigners in the industrialized BRIC nations by selling them freshly printed paper US sovereign treasury bonds, the US government might just print start printing paper (fiat) money to pay US government payrolls, pork barrel infrastructure contracts and other activities.
This will cause uncontrollable inflation
US citizens need to watch the Greek government’s actions very carefully, because the USA will be in the same situation when individuals in the industrialized wealth creating BRIC nations stop loaning the US government any more money (actually buying the freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds at auctions) to pay for US government services!
When this happens, the purchasing power of the US dollar will approach the value of toilet paper, and US society will degenerate into total anarchy similar to Somalia!
1
After the US deficit spending destroys the buying power of the US dollar, the $100 US dollar bills might only be used for toilet paper, while even a silly 1oz platinum coin stamped by the US government with a “1 trillion US dollar” value might still only have the buying power of 1700 yuan as that same 1oz of platinum has today!
Do not tell the Chi Coms that the USA has no plans to repay the money we owe them when their US Treasury bonds become due.
The USA might also just buy some paper and print a bunch of fresh hundred billion dollar bills and repay those existing US Treasury bonds held by the Chi Coms with that newly printed paper “monopoly” money US Trillion Dollar paper bills. That “US monopoly money” is formally called “Fiat” Money.
Some other examples of Sovereign nations printing (Fiat money) paper currency money (including Sovereign National Treasury Bonds) to pay for their government services (such as the USA’s Quantative Easing) are the Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWD), West African CFA (XOF), Tanzanian Shilling (TZS), Sierra Leonean Leone (SLL), Somali Shilling (SOS), Viet Nam Dong (VND), Rwandan Franc (RWF), Nigerian Naira (NGN), Liberian Dollar (LRD), Franc Congolais (CDF), Belarusian Ruble (BYR), Burundian Franc (BIF), Ugandan Shilling (PGX), and of course the Mexican Peso!
Of course most of the above printed paper sovereign nation “FIAT” currencies have absolutely no value, except as novelties, or toilet paper.
Do not tell the Chi Coms that the USA has no plans to repay the money we owe them when their US Treasury bonds become due.
The USA might also just buy some paper and print a bunch of fresh hundred billion dollar bills and repay those existing US Treasury bonds held by the Chi Coms with that newly printed paper “monopoly” money US Trillion Dollar paper bills. That “US monopoly money” is formally called “Fiat” Money.
Some other examples of Sovereign nations printing (Fiat money) paper currency money (including Sovereign National Treasury Bonds) to pay for their government services (such as the USA’s Quantative Easing) are the Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWD), West African CFA (XOF), Tanzanian Shilling (TZS), Sierra Leonean Leone (SLL), Somali Shilling (SOS), Viet Nam Dong (VND), Rwandan Franc (RWF), Nigerian Naira (NGN), Liberian Dollar (LRD), Franc Congolais (CDF), Belarusian Ruble (BYR), Burundian Franc (BIF), Ugandan Shilling (PGX), and of course the Mexican Peso!
Of course most of the above printed paper sovereign nation “FIAT” currencies have absolutely no value, except as novelties, or toilet paper.
1
I don't trust American politicians to negotiate a deal that protects workers and the environment over corporate profits. Let's hope some of these other countries have negotiators that put people and our planet ahead of corporate profits.
13
Americans are too busy squabbling with each other over flags, guns, union vs nonunion, and who's to blame for the housing finance crisis. Simultaneously, our government is too busy spying on its citizens and our allies, all, while allowing hackers into our government (including personal) records. Our representatives do nothing other than political fundraise and position themselves for reelection.
Who then, is to notice that we (not just our government but, we as consumers) have essentially "given away the store" trying to "play fair" in trade while bankrupting ourselves by not recognizing the hidden costs of cheap foreign goods and their "too good to be true" prices?
Who then, is to notice that we (not just our government but, we as consumers) have essentially "given away the store" trying to "play fair" in trade while bankrupting ourselves by not recognizing the hidden costs of cheap foreign goods and their "too good to be true" prices?
14
Why do the editors say that "trade agreements are understandably secret"? Trade agreements are not about national security so why doesn't the public have a right to see the Trans-Pacific Partnership? (TPP) Open debate in Congress is a cornerstone of our democracy. If the TPP is so good for our country why doesn't the public have a right to see the agreement?
58
Exactly! There is no reason not to make the text of the TPP available to the public other than opposition to it would grow, and there is no precedent for it either. George Bush made the drafts of his trade agreements public. And Europeans are able to read the drafts of the TTIP, currently being negotiated.
9
Why do the editors say that "trade agreements are understandably secret"?....That is not what they said. What they said is that the negotiations of a trade agreement are understandably secret. There is a huge difference between the two, and they happen to be right.
1
RLS....."Exactly! There is no reason not to make the text of the TPP available to the public"......When you play poker do you tell everybody at the table what cards you are holding before the betting (negotiating) is done? When you negotiate a trade agreement neither do you tell everybody what cards you holding until the trade negotiation is over. When the negotiation phase is over, then you show people the details and Congress votes. The secrecy complaint about the negotiations is totally bogus.
The lessons of NAFTA and other trade agreements are quite clear. Contrary to the promises made by Bill Clinton, the Chamber of Commerce and others, we have lost tens of thousands of factories and millions of jobs. The investor state dispute resolution whereby international tribunals made up of corporate lawyers is simply undemocratic. The case in Uruguay highlights the absurdity of Phillip Morris bringing a case for “lost future profits” before an international tribunal simply because the leaders in Uruguay want to place a label on cigarettes packages so that young people know about the dangers of smoking.
Bernie Sanders voted against Nafta, Cafta, Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, and all the other trade agreements. He vehemently opposes the TPP. Hillary Clinton took part in negotiations for the TPP when she was Secretary of State. She has called the TPP the “gold standard in trade agreements.”
Bernie Sanders – The President We Need
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7L9V7oGRv8
Sanders: When millions of people stand up and fight, they win.
Bernie Sanders voted against Nafta, Cafta, Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, and all the other trade agreements. He vehemently opposes the TPP. Hillary Clinton took part in negotiations for the TPP when she was Secretary of State. She has called the TPP the “gold standard in trade agreements.”
Bernie Sanders – The President We Need
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7L9V7oGRv8
Sanders: When millions of people stand up and fight, they win.
27
What is most astonishing is the amount of effort that President Obama has put in to getting this passed when the American people want it - and how willing he was to throw in the towel about the basic elements of gun control that over 90% of Americans wanted, all based on who has the most powerful lobby and biggest pockets for campaigns . I am terminally disappointed with this president. I didn't vote for him but I still had hope that things would be different. I hope we can all remember this for the next election and think about getting all of these entrenched types out. I wish we had a Nelson Rockefeller or even Michael Bloomberg to vote for - at least they are wealthy enough not to be tempted by giving 150K speeches.
3
Let's sign another trade deal that will make NAFTA look like a good deal for American workers. Hundred of thousand of manufacturing jobs were lost and what was gained? Exactly nothing. Re-training laid-off factory workers is largely a lost cause. Many of them are too old or don't have the education necessary to take jobs in hi-tech sectors or as nurses. These people will wind up on government assistance with you and me paying more taxes. Everyone loses when we allow jobs to be shifted overseas and then are forced to buy products that could have been made here in the U.S.
9
In my opinion, labor unions and some of their Democratic supporters have placed too much emphasis on "protecting American jobs." That sounds great, but they are refighting the (lost) NAFTA battle and trying to "protect" American jobs that are being lost with or without trade deals. Much more dangerous in these proposed pacts are what the Times describes as "investor protection" clauses that go one step further in elevating multinationals to a position where they take more and more power from sovereign states and, in democratic countries, their electorates. Similarly, one should target special benefits for industries, like the drug companies, that are prejudicial to the broad public interest. Unfortunately, the "jobs" battle gets the most attention, though it is already largely lost.
8
Welfare for the elites, that is investor protection! You got that part right, so I gave you a recommend.
1
President Clinton's NAFTA and his PNTR for Communist China economically requires that US businesses relocate any and all US jobs to those nations when/if US citizens refuse to work for the same prevailing wages that are available in those third world nations!
President Obama's TPP will just be NAFTA on a greater expanded basis!
Which party is in opposition to relocating US jobs to third world nations?
Not the Democrats!
Not the Republicans!
Are blue collar US workers just now realizing that the Democrats are the first to create "FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS" that economically require that US businesses relocate US jobs relocate to third world nations on a wholesale basis?
Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama all created all of these new "Free Trade Agreements," MFNs and PNTRs that were very destructive for US employment by relocating US jobs to foreign nations.
President Obama's TPP will just be NAFTA on a greater expanded basis!
Which party is in opposition to relocating US jobs to third world nations?
Not the Democrats!
Not the Republicans!
Are blue collar US workers just now realizing that the Democrats are the first to create "FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS" that economically require that US businesses relocate US jobs relocate to third world nations on a wholesale basis?
Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama all created all of these new "Free Trade Agreements," MFNs and PNTRs that were very destructive for US employment by relocating US jobs to foreign nations.
7
Putting aside the misinformation that seems to circulate freely, the liberal quarrel with the trade bills comes down to distrust, distrust of Pres. Obama. Liberals fear the President will be so eager for any deal that he will sell the common people down the river. Curiously, this mirrors Republican fears about any Iran deal. I think this distrust is misplaced, in both cases. Mr. Obama has given every indication that he cares far more for "ordinary folks" as he likes to say than for corporate fat cats, and has shown himself to be a brilliant and wily advocate of our national interests. Of course these deals will produce losers as well as winners. But whose side do Ms. Warren and other liberals think Obama is on?
8
I disagree with you. Obama is Wall Street's man, MIC's man, International Corporation's man, a 1%er man! He is not in favor of labor, the poor, or even the middle class from which he sprang. If you are on top, your life doesn't matter, hence assassination Tuesdays and their collateral damage.
Obama, the Clintons, the Bushes, peas in a pod, as Wall Street gets the nod!
us army 1969-1971
Obama, the Clintons, the Bushes, peas in a pod, as Wall Street gets the nod!
us army 1969-1971
2
Neatly put, and my sentiments, exactly. With the secrecy and meager information surrounding the trade bill, indeed, it does boil down to trust - trust in our president's record in his years in office as a protector of American interests in global and national affairs. To allow other countries, less democratic and astute to drive the conversation in global trade without American involvement, without our voice at the table, would be a mistake, and unheard of. And yes, there will be winners and losers in negotiations with so many partners, but I trust the major voice will be that of the U.S., and President Obama is our best representative.
The 'legacy' folks who believe the president needs this to burnish his legacy further, should realize that he would hardly toss away all he has worked so hard for in these tumultuous 6 years, on a gamble with the global community if he wasn't confident that we have an obligation to participate in world trade, and to fight for America's best interests.
The 'legacy' folks who believe the president needs this to burnish his legacy further, should realize that he would hardly toss away all he has worked so hard for in these tumultuous 6 years, on a gamble with the global community if he wasn't confident that we have an obligation to participate in world trade, and to fight for America's best interests.
1
Sorry But President Obama has proved himself to be A Fool! A jester with a funky hat that goes nowhere other than into associate Corps Pockets! The Corps Now run this Nation they hold the crown upon their heads the only problem is that their crowns are covered in Corruption Greed and Destruction but not one of gold imbedded with Jewels.
7
Not a fool, he is just a follower of the money! Like everyone, he goes where he gets his bread buttered.
HOPE! Ah yes, hope he would be a multi-milionaire! He has made it! Constitutional law professor, what baloney.
us army 1969-1971
HOPE! Ah yes, hope he would be a multi-milionaire! He has made it! Constitutional law professor, what baloney.
us army 1969-1971
4
Now republicans must relize their folly of opposing
president Obama. He is their man.
president Obama. He is their man.
7
At the same time Democrats realize the folly of supporting President Obama. He is not their man.
5
This "trade deal" was written by big business for big business. I voted for Obama because I thought he truly cared for working Americans. I should not have bothered to vote.
32
"This "trade deal" was written by big business for big business"....There is no trade deal so how could you know what is in it and who wrote it? What you should have said is that you are worried that the trade deal "will be" (not was) written by big business for big business.
3
If there was no trade deal, the NYT would not have written this editorial. If there was no "deal" Congress would not have anything to vote about. Yes, Wayne, there IS a deal here -- that fact that so little is known about what is actually there is what makes it so dangerous -- to all of us.
7
who are you kidding? The deal is already worked out in secret. If it did not favor big business and banking, then why are its proposals public.
us army 1969-1971
us army 1969-1971
3
This editorial by the NYT says, in effect, "Fingers crossed. Everybody play fair now!" That's not good enough for the middle class that has built this country. The Democratic senators that pushed this "trade agreement" over the top to victory will be voted out at election time.
31
Yes. And they will be replaced by Republicans. Until then the middle class will not rest :-)
I wonder if "Chinagate" and "Johnny Chung" had anything to do with President Clinton granting Communist China’s MFN renewed annually and then President Clinton granting PNTR trade statuses from the US government?
What did President Obama's new Free Trade agreements do to the wages of the US workers?
What will President Obama's proposed TPP do to the wages of the US workers?
But in the last 20 years the POTUSs have unilaterally created Free Trade Agreements with third world nations that remove the import taxes on foreign made products from that foreign nation, so that any product made with that foreign labor in that nation will be much less expensive than the same product made with US labor.
What did President Obama's new Free Trade agreements do to the wages of the US workers?
What will President Obama's proposed TPP do to the wages of the US workers?
But in the last 20 years the POTUSs have unilaterally created Free Trade Agreements with third world nations that remove the import taxes on foreign made products from that foreign nation, so that any product made with that foreign labor in that nation will be much less expensive than the same product made with US labor.
4
I don't know about the TTP contents, but I know the TTIP ones.
TTIP means Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, but in reality is a treaty to cheat the EU Citizens and give to US Multinational Corporations higher power than the European States.
-1- The treaty contains an obligation to the EU countries to accept OGMs, Cancerous hormone fed animals' meat, and forbids all the EU quality labels on foods, like Certified Organic food, OGM free food, classified as “Unfair Competition” against the Multinationals' junk food.
-2- In the TTIP there is a clause called ISDS (Investor State Dispute Settlement), which is a mandatory Arbitration Mechanism, which allows Multinational to call for damages “ States or individuals” guilty of the mentioned “Unfair Competition”, but not vice-versa!
In Europe we have already collected 2.2 million signatures to stop the TTIP, https://stop-ttip.org/, which means that European Citizens are against the Treaty and not willing to be cheated.
I am anyway astonished that President Obama supports this cheat treaty, which heavily penalizes the European Citizens, giving a tremendous power to the US Multinationals.
I understand now why Republicans for the fist time since seven year vote positively for a Mr Obama's proposal: President Obama is doing now a right-wing politics in line with the Republican's ideology of wild market.
A big change in the Mr Obama's politics, which his Democratic voters should seriously consider.
TTIP means Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, but in reality is a treaty to cheat the EU Citizens and give to US Multinational Corporations higher power than the European States.
-1- The treaty contains an obligation to the EU countries to accept OGMs, Cancerous hormone fed animals' meat, and forbids all the EU quality labels on foods, like Certified Organic food, OGM free food, classified as “Unfair Competition” against the Multinationals' junk food.
-2- In the TTIP there is a clause called ISDS (Investor State Dispute Settlement), which is a mandatory Arbitration Mechanism, which allows Multinational to call for damages “ States or individuals” guilty of the mentioned “Unfair Competition”, but not vice-versa!
In Europe we have already collected 2.2 million signatures to stop the TTIP, https://stop-ttip.org/, which means that European Citizens are against the Treaty and not willing to be cheated.
I am anyway astonished that President Obama supports this cheat treaty, which heavily penalizes the European Citizens, giving a tremendous power to the US Multinationals.
I understand now why Republicans for the fist time since seven year vote positively for a Mr Obama's proposal: President Obama is doing now a right-wing politics in line with the Republican's ideology of wild market.
A big change in the Mr Obama's politics, which his Democratic voters should seriously consider.
4
Obama is selling out American workers -especially unionized workers- by aligning himself with the 1% who feed both parties lavishly and leave the crumbs for the American workers to scratch around for. As for the two northwest "Democratic" Senators from Boeing, who lead the charge, I say to them change your party to Republican, you are not Democrats or democrats.
6
Until you see the details of the trade agreement, after the administration negotiates the trade agreement, you have no idea who or what Obama is aligning himself with. Till then everything is nothing but your personal surmise.
5
Please review how NAFTA went. Do you favor TPP's investor protections?
I live and work in Washington DC, about 100 feet or so from Capitol Hill. I live in the U Street area, about 2 miles from the White House.
This town is crawling with political analysts, journalists and pundits. Thousands of them. Not one human being that isn't being paid by the Obama WH has even suggested that the TPP is safe or fair for American workers. No details, not even from the WH that even suggest it.
When nobody in a town filled with journalists and political experts is saying Obama and his TPP is aligned with ordinary Americans (and that list includes Nancy Pelosi), its not exactly a stretch to see where Obama ISN'T.
As a lawyer when everybody in the courtroom including the judge says the sky is blue, none of us are going to say, hey lets just wait until we go outside and look up.
This town is crawling with political analysts, journalists and pundits. Thousands of them. Not one human being that isn't being paid by the Obama WH has even suggested that the TPP is safe or fair for American workers. No details, not even from the WH that even suggest it.
When nobody in a town filled with journalists and political experts is saying Obama and his TPP is aligned with ordinary Americans (and that list includes Nancy Pelosi), its not exactly a stretch to see where Obama ISN'T.
As a lawyer when everybody in the courtroom including the judge says the sky is blue, none of us are going to say, hey lets just wait until we go outside and look up.
Even more power to Corporate America.
3
Foreign Manufacturers and foreign governments probably think that they "paid for" NAFTA and all of that that other Free Trade Agreement legislation, MFNs, PNTRs and that secret US Military Rocket Technology “fair and square” in accordance with the prevailing US institutionalized federal government "PAY TO PLAY" bribery procedures!
How much did they pay for President Obama's support of TPP?
CGI Federal, who secured a $650+ million no-bid Federal Government contract to build the Obamacare exchange web portal, might have paid too much for the “PAY TO PLAY” requirements to secure the government contract, so then CGI Federal did not have enough money left over to do the work required by their contract.
This no-bid contract has come under increased scrutiny for ties between CGI Federal and the Obama administration.
CGI Federal is a Canadian Company that has a record of previous incompetence with Canadian government computer programming contracts.
Maybe CGI Federal paid too much money to PLAY as a part of the US government PAY TO PLAY contract acquisition requirement, and then CGI Federal did not have enough money left in the contract to properly do their work that was/is required by the contract.
How much did they pay for President Obama's support of TPP?
CGI Federal, who secured a $650+ million no-bid Federal Government contract to build the Obamacare exchange web portal, might have paid too much for the “PAY TO PLAY” requirements to secure the government contract, so then CGI Federal did not have enough money left over to do the work required by their contract.
This no-bid contract has come under increased scrutiny for ties between CGI Federal and the Obama administration.
CGI Federal is a Canadian Company that has a record of previous incompetence with Canadian government computer programming contracts.
Maybe CGI Federal paid too much money to PLAY as a part of the US government PAY TO PLAY contract acquisition requirement, and then CGI Federal did not have enough money left in the contract to properly do their work that was/is required by the contract.
2
Ask any of tour computer programmer friends how much their company would have charged to create the "Obamacare exchange web portal?"
Was the remainder of that $650 million "PAY TO PLAY" money?
What about the Solyndra Loan Guarantee? Was Bankruptcy and Loan Default a part of the original Solyndra business plan?
"PAY TO PLAY" no-bid contracts are now also being awarded to contractors when they provide political campaign contributors, perks, and various other benefits to elected and appointed government officials at the state, county, city, school district, hospital district and other government agencies in accordance with the apparent US Federal Government contract award system.
Was the remainder of that $650 million "PAY TO PLAY" money?
What about the Solyndra Loan Guarantee? Was Bankruptcy and Loan Default a part of the original Solyndra business plan?
"PAY TO PLAY" no-bid contracts are now also being awarded to contractors when they provide political campaign contributors, perks, and various other benefits to elected and appointed government officials at the state, county, city, school district, hospital district and other government agencies in accordance with the apparent US Federal Government contract award system.
4
"Ask any of your computer.............. "
1
Hillary could have stopped this by forcefully opposing the TPP and twisting Dem Senators arms. But she didn't. And she has the Gaul to title her book 'Hard Choices'? How can any Democrat possibly vote for this utterly corrupt coward who hides in the gutter while her hideous hand maidens like David Brock, John Podesta, and white male hating 'feminists' smear mud at anyone who dares stand in her way. At least Bernie Sanders is brave enough to speak for himself and say what he thinks, not a robot-like entity that calls itself 'Hillary', who makes Hal look positively limber.
9
The North American Free Trade Agreement were enacted under President Clinton partly by over a 100 promises of reform that were made to sway members of Congress to vote for this agreement. This "dealmaking" is set forth in utmost detail in a 36 page account in "Public Citizen," June 2015. These promises were all broken. There is every reason to believe Presidernt Obama used the same tatics to persuade the Congress to approve this present unjust agreement.
9
MargeS,
President Clinton signed NAFTA into law on December 08, 1993 as the very first FTA with a third world nation!
President Clinton did not have to do that!
NAFTA removed those US Import tariffs that protected US worker pay scales, and that is the main reason that so many US jobs were relocated to Mexico.
President Clinton later granted PNTR to Communist China and PNTR did the same thing to the US workers as his NAFTA did to the US workers.
Google up Chinagate.
President Clinton signed NAFTA into law on December 08, 1993 as the very first FTA with a third world nation!
President Clinton did not have to do that!
NAFTA removed those US Import tariffs that protected US worker pay scales, and that is the main reason that so many US jobs were relocated to Mexico.
President Clinton later granted PNTR to Communist China and PNTR did the same thing to the US workers as his NAFTA did to the US workers.
Google up Chinagate.
I am grieving the loss of our democracy.
6
It doesn't matter a whit whether, or not, Obama lives up to his word on this trade deal. Who will be the next president... and the one after that...
1
First, labor unions finance the Democrat a Party. Without the money extracted by legislation from workers there would be NO Democratic Party. Remember that. The argument against free trade is primarily driven by that fact. The purpose of such trade deals used to be for Americans to be able to purchase the goods easier and cheaper for foreign countries and more importantly for American companies to sell to consumers and companies in other countries.
But NOT to the New York Times: "high standards on labor rights, environmental protection, access to medicines and other issues that Mr. Obama has said he supports" is its demand. How that helps American companies is clear - NOT AT ALL. But crippling American companies seems more important to the Left.
Http://periodictablet.com
But NOT to the New York Times: "high standards on labor rights, environmental protection, access to medicines and other issues that Mr. Obama has said he supports" is its demand. How that helps American companies is clear - NOT AT ALL. But crippling American companies seems more important to the Left.
Http://periodictablet.com
1
I think this editorial is naive as we all know the corporate interests don't always live up to their promises and other countries won't follow the rules.
Too bad we didn't have a Snowden like person which leaked all the details about the TPP a long time ago. That is transparency. The American public deserves the truth, since we will be the individuals affected most by this trade deal.
Too bad we didn't have a Snowden like person which leaked all the details about the TPP a long time ago. That is transparency. The American public deserves the truth, since we will be the individuals affected most by this trade deal.
2
How can you be transparent about something that doesn't exist? The vote wasn't an approval of a trade agreement, but rather it was a vote to allow the administration to negotiate a trade agreement --- which then still has to be approved by Congress.
1
This deal stinks to high heaven.
We have a lame duck Democrat (ostensibly) in cahoots with a lame *** Republican Congress.
All of which is happening in a smoke filled by-invitation-only room in some exclusive men's club.
This editorial by the Times' gurus sounds like one of those ubiquitous TV commercials for drugs. While smiling, happy models are cavorting in luxury, the voice over is telling us all the ways the drug can maim you for life or, mercifully, kill you and end the pain.
Dear Editors, the side effects of TPP are deadly. All of your prescriptions are folly.
We have a lame duck Democrat (ostensibly) in cahoots with a lame *** Republican Congress.
All of which is happening in a smoke filled by-invitation-only room in some exclusive men's club.
This editorial by the Times' gurus sounds like one of those ubiquitous TV commercials for drugs. While smiling, happy models are cavorting in luxury, the voice over is telling us all the ways the drug can maim you for life or, mercifully, kill you and end the pain.
Dear Editors, the side effects of TPP are deadly. All of your prescriptions are folly.
5
When Clinton signed the first big trade agreement I told my buddy, there goes the middle class. I have not seen anything to change my mind on that.
On the other hand free trade, if done well, can have some benefits. When a country becomes a trading partner it is much harder to go to war with them as war is bad for business. When people from another country receive an income less foreign aid is required. Being born in America was like hitting the lotto. I do not think it is wrong to elevate the world and share a bit of what I have.
Having said that I remember Clinton saying that we needed to make programs available to retrain displaced workers and find ways to train people for more technical and high paying jobs. I never saw it. In fact college costs have soared shutting the door on the working poor and the middle class to elevate themselves. A better life costs money that they simply do not have.
I think the salvation of people who want an education and better training is going to be programs such as Coursera. The government should figure out ways for people to get a low or no cost education using free or low cost on line programs. That would help immensely. We also need to stop demonizing unions. Many unions provide training programs for more technical and higher paying jobs.
On the other hand free trade, if done well, can have some benefits. When a country becomes a trading partner it is much harder to go to war with them as war is bad for business. When people from another country receive an income less foreign aid is required. Being born in America was like hitting the lotto. I do not think it is wrong to elevate the world and share a bit of what I have.
Having said that I remember Clinton saying that we needed to make programs available to retrain displaced workers and find ways to train people for more technical and high paying jobs. I never saw it. In fact college costs have soared shutting the door on the working poor and the middle class to elevate themselves. A better life costs money that they simply do not have.
I think the salvation of people who want an education and better training is going to be programs such as Coursera. The government should figure out ways for people to get a low or no cost education using free or low cost on line programs. That would help immensely. We also need to stop demonizing unions. Many unions provide training programs for more technical and higher paying jobs.
2
It is not about "free trade," but making money for the billionaires and their business entities.
1
So there seems to be either three scenarios at play here:
1. President Obama is a naive fool who can't understand that the TPP is a bad thing for America and working people.
2. President Obama is secretly in the hands of large corporations and the "oligarchs" despite the fact he is not running again for any office.
3. The anti-TPP crowd vastly overstates the negative impacts and understates (or completely ignores) the positive impacts of TPP.
Which is it?
1. President Obama is a naive fool who can't understand that the TPP is a bad thing for America and working people.
2. President Obama is secretly in the hands of large corporations and the "oligarchs" despite the fact he is not running again for any office.
3. The anti-TPP crowd vastly overstates the negative impacts and understates (or completely ignores) the positive impacts of TPP.
Which is it?
3
Choice number 2.
The Trade Agreement, that sadly will be voted in by Congress is not only a triumph for President Obama, but also for the Malaysian Traders in Human trafficking as well as American Industries, who want to cut costs and move their operations to Asia.
1
Good to see that the President has come to accept that the republicans were right all along. If this keeps up he could become a good president after all; he may even vote republican in 2016 with the rest of America.
1
If all this existing "free trade agreement" legislation created in the last twenty years by the last three recent US Presidents and Congress was the main financial cause for union and non-union US located jobs for the blue-collar and the white collar working citizens of the USA to relocate to foreign nations, why does President Obama want to create the TPP?
Why then did our elected presidents and congressmen create all of these "free trade legislation" laws that economically required US businesses to relocate as many US jobs as possible to foreign nations if US workers will not work for the same wages that are available in third world nations as allowed and economically required by the Free Trade Agreements and the Most Favored Nation trade statuses?
Were our elected presidents and congressmen ignorant, stupid, dishonest, evil, or some combination of these factors?
How do you think any and all of these existing free trade agreements were created?
Why then did our elected presidents and congressmen create all of these "free trade legislation" laws that economically required US businesses to relocate as many US jobs as possible to foreign nations if US workers will not work for the same wages that are available in third world nations as allowed and economically required by the Free Trade Agreements and the Most Favored Nation trade statuses?
Were our elected presidents and congressmen ignorant, stupid, dishonest, evil, or some combination of these factors?
How do you think any and all of these existing free trade agreements were created?
2
Do you think that maybe the foreign product manufacturers that export consumer products to the USA might have paid professional US lobbyists to spend hundreds of thousands of US dollars on wine, food, women, song, pre-paid vacations in Spain, cash, pre-paid sexual services, corporate jobs for the (otherwise unemployable) children/wives/girlfriends of enough of the US senators and US congressmen (and their congressional aides who actually control the members of congress) plus campaign contributions to influence/entice (bribe) enough of our Republican and Democratic US presidents, congressmen, and senators for the past 20 years to create all of that "Free Trade Agreement" legislation that allowed, caused, and economically required our businesses to take advantage of the lower labor costs, lower electrical energy costs, lower business taxes, lower payroll taxes to pay for health care costs, lower unemployment insurance costs, lower environmental manufacturing costs and other anti-business costs that are not required in various foreign countries with fewer anti-business laws than are/were applicable to businesses in the USA?
I've read as much as I can find about the TPP and I'm sophisticated enough to understand that sometimes one must choose the least odious of a group of odious options.
Unlike many railing here, I don't necessarily think Mr. Obama has sold out. Why? Because I don't see what he stands to gain. At this point in his administration there is nothing in it for him to pander to Big Business. Some will point to his money making abilities once out of office. As the first bi-racial president he's set for life just with speaking fees alone.
So that said, I am going to take a stab and purpose that this is the only way he can see to at least gain some leverage in a situation where the horse has already left the barn. I ask the people railing if they think just because this trade pact isn't signed, Big Business won't move jobs. Of course not. They will do so anyway. Most of the jobs lost in the last decade have gone to just this region. The difference now will be the United States has some leverage. The government can mandate.
And the big play here is to get China to sign on. If China signs on there will be leverage against the flood of junky goods with possible health risks pushed from artificially set currency. There will also be the ability to "manage" China going forward.
Do I like it? No. But sometimes one must play the cards on the table.
Where I really worry about this is in the hands of a Republican President who might trade the country for the gain of the 1%.
Unlike many railing here, I don't necessarily think Mr. Obama has sold out. Why? Because I don't see what he stands to gain. At this point in his administration there is nothing in it for him to pander to Big Business. Some will point to his money making abilities once out of office. As the first bi-racial president he's set for life just with speaking fees alone.
So that said, I am going to take a stab and purpose that this is the only way he can see to at least gain some leverage in a situation where the horse has already left the barn. I ask the people railing if they think just because this trade pact isn't signed, Big Business won't move jobs. Of course not. They will do so anyway. Most of the jobs lost in the last decade have gone to just this region. The difference now will be the United States has some leverage. The government can mandate.
And the big play here is to get China to sign on. If China signs on there will be leverage against the flood of junky goods with possible health risks pushed from artificially set currency. There will also be the ability to "manage" China going forward.
Do I like it? No. But sometimes one must play the cards on the table.
Where I really worry about this is in the hands of a Republican President who might trade the country for the gain of the 1%.
1
Obama will use it, or be used by foreign interests, to institute cap and trade, emission's cuts where the US pays the most, to implement mandates for solar energy, and to increase immigration to US. Those will be the chips he throws in, but none are good for the US or the world. Cap and trade is a rouse to enrich a few, including governments. Emission agreements are a joke - just look at what China 'negotiated' with the US. Mandates for solar energy cannot work in the US, a country that is far larger and more diverse than the small countries that tout success, like Germany.
And increase immigration? Obama has directly increased the H-1B visas over 2-fold since 2010. Now Disney is operated by those from India and Pakistan. We over 20 million illegal immigrants. Our schools must teach in Spanish and our tax dollars are going to welfare, medicaid, and medicare for 'immigrants' that have never even put into the system.
That will be the US trade agreement.
And increase immigration? Obama has directly increased the H-1B visas over 2-fold since 2010. Now Disney is operated by those from India and Pakistan. We over 20 million illegal immigrants. Our schools must teach in Spanish and our tax dollars are going to welfare, medicaid, and medicare for 'immigrants' that have never even put into the system.
That will be the US trade agreement.
2
Hey, here's a wild thought. Maybe we should wait to see the actual deal before we declare that we're doomed, and that the President's an incompetent yet machiavellian sellout.
Of course, the prob with that idea is that most of the wailers won't bother to find out what the deal even is, any more than they have with the PPACA.
Of course, the prob with that idea is that most of the wailers won't bother to find out what the deal even is, any more than they have with the PPACA.
If all nations become as productive and share that productivity well with all who contribute, the result will be a much bigger economy, far more opportunities for businesses and individuals to prosper. Well considered trade agreements can help that to be achieved while ill considered ones can lead to really bad outcomes for all.
Trade Agreements ??? ....constructed in secret...???...and ...
who benefits by these "secret trade agreements"....
Are we the people ...living in a secret society.....are we the people being
led by a "big brother" government...are we to survive....as a democracy...
with "deals" concocted...behind closed doors..
NO NO NO...so get the facts in order NEW YORK TIMES.....and
maybe...just maybe you will retrieve the honor of a PULITZER...
what IS the TPP...and whom does this secret deal benefit...FACTS matter !!!
who benefits by these "secret trade agreements"....
Are we the people ...living in a secret society.....are we the people being
led by a "big brother" government...are we to survive....as a democracy...
with "deals" concocted...behind closed doors..
NO NO NO...so get the facts in order NEW YORK TIMES.....and
maybe...just maybe you will retrieve the honor of a PULITZER...
what IS the TPP...and whom does this secret deal benefit...FACTS matter !!!
3
If TPP passes I will NOT vote for a Democrat in 2016.
TPP can only pass with the help of the Democrats-they can block it just like the Republicans did when they were in the minority.
Some other people get this scam too like Bill Clinton's WH guy Bill Curry* who is forecasting a Clinton 2016 loss over the TPP.
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/22/hillary_clinton_is_going_to_lose_she_doe...
TPP can only pass with the help of the Democrats-they can block it just like the Republicans did when they were in the minority.
Some other people get this scam too like Bill Clinton's WH guy Bill Curry* who is forecasting a Clinton 2016 loss over the TPP.
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/22/hillary_clinton_is_going_to_lose_she_doe...
3
So much demagoguery on this issue... blaming wage-stagnation and the loss of manufacturing jobs on the free-trade agenda may be easy but it's also simply wrong. This sort of deal is imperative in order to sustain future growth. I applaud the president and Republicans alike. Ms. Clinton was not impressive. Ms. Warren was simply incorrect. This is good news for the majority of American workers.
1
You agree that TPP's investor protection is a good idea?
If we want to have a fair, free and frugal international trade system we may also have to make a comprehensive analysis of the role the international monetary system plays in the world trade system. We have to go beyond monetary manipulation and speculation and include particularly its volatility and other structural shortcomings.
One way to improve the international monetary system is to adopt a carbon monetary standard of a specific tonnage of CO2e per person, which would be a major way to deal with the looming climate catastrophe and to advance low-carbon, climate resilient development. This unique proposal of a carbon-based international monetary system is presented in Verhagen 2012 “The Tierra Solution: Resolving the climate crisis through monetary transformation” and updated at www.timun.net.
One way to improve the international monetary system is to adopt a carbon monetary standard of a specific tonnage of CO2e per person, which would be a major way to deal with the looming climate catastrophe and to advance low-carbon, climate resilient development. This unique proposal of a carbon-based international monetary system is presented in Verhagen 2012 “The Tierra Solution: Resolving the climate crisis through monetary transformation” and updated at www.timun.net.
1
bushBAMA (continuation of bushcheney-no change) had no intention of "trade deal"-this was about corporate tribunals (C.A.F.T.A.-like) ability to override U.S. law, democratic representation.
Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia received $102,500 in corporate contributions. Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, best known for proposing a Monsanto-written bill in 2013 that became known as the Monsanto Protection Act, received $77,900." Arizona senator John McCain received $51,700 in the first quarter of 2015. Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina received $60,000 in corporate donations. Eighty-one-year-old senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who is running for his seventh Senate term, received $35,000. Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, who will be running for his first full six-year term in 2016, received $67,500 from pro-TPP corporations." Almost 100% of the Republicans in the US Senate voted for fast-track – the only two non-votes on TPA were a Republican from Louisiana and a Republican from Alaska.
In just 24 hours, Wyden and five of those Democratic holdouts – Michael Bennet of Colorado, Dianne Feinstein of California, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, and Bill Nelson of Florida – caved and voted for fast-track.
Bennet, Murray, and Wyden – all running for re-election in 2016 – received $105,900 between the three of them. Bennet, who comes from the more purple state of Colorado, got $53,700 in corporate campaign donations.
Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia received $102,500 in corporate contributions. Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, best known for proposing a Monsanto-written bill in 2013 that became known as the Monsanto Protection Act, received $77,900." Arizona senator John McCain received $51,700 in the first quarter of 2015. Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina received $60,000 in corporate donations. Eighty-one-year-old senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who is running for his seventh Senate term, received $35,000. Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, who will be running for his first full six-year term in 2016, received $67,500 from pro-TPP corporations." Almost 100% of the Republicans in the US Senate voted for fast-track – the only two non-votes on TPA were a Republican from Louisiana and a Republican from Alaska.
In just 24 hours, Wyden and five of those Democratic holdouts – Michael Bennet of Colorado, Dianne Feinstein of California, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, and Bill Nelson of Florida – caved and voted for fast-track.
Bennet, Murray, and Wyden – all running for re-election in 2016 – received $105,900 between the three of them. Bennet, who comes from the more purple state of Colorado, got $53,700 in corporate campaign donations.
7
Shame on President Obama for disappointing his supporters in so many ways. He has proven to be lyrical talk and no backbone in representing those of us who gave our votes and donations. Can I have my $300.00 back? Sadly, I am dis-inclined to give donations to candidates who may be worthy because of my frustration with BO.
5
Protectionists and neo-isolationists were dealt a set back. Cheers for Mr. Obama and his vision of world commerce and prosperity.
1
I have said it many times that now is the time to hold a Constitutional Conference to review our Constitution and make the necessary adjustments, additions or deletions, to bring our Constitution into the twenty first century. We must revise many areas, including international relations and trade, taxation, education, presidential powers, congressinal powers, term limits, representation, voting rights, campaign contributions, and so on. Until we have revised our laws which guide us, there will never be calm and economic growth.
1
Your editorial is a classic demonstration of corporate cowardice. I have noticed, over the past year or two, how quickly the Times is willing to lay even more responsibility on Obama; a president besieged with a dysfunctional congress, and a group of Republicans (complete with their own high profile media) whose only purpose is to hamstring, discredit and disrupt him at every opportunity. Why doesn't the NYT, an organization with immense power and influence take some responsibility for influencing Trade policy? They can start by recognizing that this policy (agree with it or not!) was devised under Obama's leadership, and that if it is potentially effective, it is because of his insight and initiative. I might add that it was created during a time when the President was engaged on over a dozen policy fronts, all of them critical to our national survival and well-being.
No Republican president that I can think of (I'm in my early seventies) can remotely equal what he has accomplished given the adverse, hostile environment he has had to work in.
No Republican president that I can think of (I'm in my early seventies) can remotely equal what he has accomplished given the adverse, hostile environment he has had to work in.
1
Obama is a republican, just compare him to President Einsenhower for example.
1
Creating a corporate super-polity to oversee implementation and override geo-bounded polities if it sees fit is not a good deal.
Corporatism is hardly democracy. It's fascism without the antisemitism. It's worse than aristocracy or plutocracy--because of the limited liability of owners.
Corporatism is hardly democracy. It's fascism without the antisemitism. It's worse than aristocracy or plutocracy--because of the limited liability of owners.
4
President Obama could succeed to secure better terms for the American workers, unemployed, and the people in general or not in his trade deals but he has surely succeeded at striking a better deal with the Republicans, who, while bitterly opposed to Obama, could hardly compromise on their business interests that Obama is determined to promote even at the cost of annoying his party colleagues.
It would have been a great thing if Obama, who has received much support from lsbor through all of his travails as President, would have extended a partnership to labor during his rush to receive fast-track authority, maybe by putting a top labor leader on his negotiating team in order to reinforce to foreign leaders that any trade deal with the United States would be done with input from labor, unlike the NAFTA deal was. The Germans no doubt would have done it this way, given German business' close alliance with labor through work councils. Yes, it would have been a great thing.
So now, we are left with great distrust by labor of both the President and the Senate Dems, again many of which enjoy the support of labor, who voted to cut off debate of the bill. I know that as a retired union manufacturer, i don't trust Obama, I don't trust any of the few elected Dem representatives from my state, and i remember what a spectacular disaster NAFTA was for not only my city but for the entire region I live in.
I cannot vote for Republicans, as they are part and parcel of trying to nuke laborers and the blue-collar class, yet I am left withholding support for Democrats now, who have evidently decided they are happier with investment-class affiliation.
Maybe it is time to form a third-party, insinificant as most always turn out to be. Call it the Labor Party, and channel labor's support, and significant money, to that party. Obama, and the Dems, have sold us out.
So now, we are left with great distrust by labor of both the President and the Senate Dems, again many of which enjoy the support of labor, who voted to cut off debate of the bill. I know that as a retired union manufacturer, i don't trust Obama, I don't trust any of the few elected Dem representatives from my state, and i remember what a spectacular disaster NAFTA was for not only my city but for the entire region I live in.
I cannot vote for Republicans, as they are part and parcel of trying to nuke laborers and the blue-collar class, yet I am left withholding support for Democrats now, who have evidently decided they are happier with investment-class affiliation.
Maybe it is time to form a third-party, insinificant as most always turn out to be. Call it the Labor Party, and channel labor's support, and significant money, to that party. Obama, and the Dems, have sold us out.
33
Bernie Sanders should be your man.
Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders is the answer, or others who follow his views.
Once again, Obama stabs the same people in the back who handed him two presidential victories. His Hope and Change campaign slogan was nothing more than blue smoke and mirrors. Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me!
8
Good luck with that. If you read the leaked (read: true) details in the TPP, the players involved have no intention of making things fair. This is not at all about trade, it's about protecting the rights of corporations to make profits, regardless of a nation's laws, which pertains to sub-governments as well, even municipalities. The arbitration process is enough to scare the wits out of me. Three judge panels, packed with corporate cronies, vs. US judicial courts. Corporations can sue for the perceived loss of profits, even if their product (process or whatever) is harmful to the population & environment. Lawsuits under NAFTA are already examples of this. (PB says it better than I.)
Multi-national corporations have no loyalty to the US and we're deluding ourselves if we think they care at all about American workers, our environment, our economy, etc. They're not set up to care, but to be profitable at any cost. Our government's role is to protect us against their harmful practices, not to be secret partners with them.
Multi-national corporations have no loyalty to the US and we're deluding ourselves if we think they care at all about American workers, our environment, our economy, etc. They're not set up to care, but to be profitable at any cost. Our government's role is to protect us against their harmful practices, not to be secret partners with them.
57
Nothing like leaks from people with an axe to grind for revealing "the truth," is there? Seriously?
Pleeeease. This is the president who promised that he would hit the streets in his walking boots to defend labor. When it was time for him to put on those boots he had misplaced them.
With a history like that, why would anybody expect this president to do anything that really protects labor????? He is worse than many Republicans.
With a history like that, why would anybody expect this president to do anything that really protects labor????? He is worse than many Republicans.
30
" defend labor" was never a Democrat goal. Extracting hundreds of millions of dollars from union bosses for reelection always has been its goal. So, get real!
Http://www.periodictablet.com
Http://www.periodictablet.com
Like who? rick Scott?
TPP will ensure that Big Tobacco will be able to continue to spread death, disease, and disability on a global scale. According to the World Health Organization, tobacco killed 100 million in the 20th century and is projected to kill one billion people by the end of this century. Most of these deaths will be in the developing world. TPP will be used to intimidate poorer countries into allowing Big Tobacco free reign.
12
I find it ironic that the same people who cry and whine about the lack of a middle class and income inequality are the same people who also are obstinate about free trade.
Free trade makes it easier to sell our goods in other countries which drives the creation of business and jobs. You want a better middle class? Free trade allows people with the guts to start a new business, a global marketplace to sell their goods. This increase the amount of goods they can sell and the amount of people they employ.
Free trade makes everything we buy from other countries cheaper. You want a more prosperous middle class? Allow them to buy a 300 dollar smart phone made in China instead of a 600 smartphone made in Texas.
Every country is good at making certain things and less good at others. America has strengths in agriculture, finance, medical devices, heavy manufacturing equipment, among others. Japan is excellent at producing electronics and cars.
Tariffs protect only entrenched business and the lawmakers who are responsible for maintaining the tariffs.
Free trade makes it easier to sell our goods in other countries which drives the creation of business and jobs. You want a better middle class? Free trade allows people with the guts to start a new business, a global marketplace to sell their goods. This increase the amount of goods they can sell and the amount of people they employ.
Free trade makes everything we buy from other countries cheaper. You want a more prosperous middle class? Allow them to buy a 300 dollar smart phone made in China instead of a 600 smartphone made in Texas.
Every country is good at making certain things and less good at others. America has strengths in agriculture, finance, medical devices, heavy manufacturing equipment, among others. Japan is excellent at producing electronics and cars.
Tariffs protect only entrenched business and the lawmakers who are responsible for maintaining the tariffs.
6
..some still labor under impression this "deal" was about trade:
.."when those ISDS judgments begin to hit, and Congresspeople have to face uncomfortable questions about how they’re going to pay for damages awarded by ISDS tribunals to multinational corporations. You will also see it clearly when demonstrations and protests of the TPP never go away. Finally, you will see it clearly when the US Supreme Court someday rules on the constitutionality of the TPP, when plaintiffs who have had to pay higher taxes to cover the costs of TPP awards sue in US Courts on constitutionality grounds."
"And before you say such awards will never happen, please keep in mind that little Ecuador has already sustained a $2.3 Billion judgment on behalf of Occidental Petroleum in an ISDS dispute over “expected lost profits” authorized by the bilateral “free trade” agreement between Ecuador and the United States. An award against the United States of similar proportions given the size of our economy compared to Ecuador’s, would be $340 Billion."
https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/WikiLeaks-TPP-Investment-Chapter.pdf
.."when those ISDS judgments begin to hit, and Congresspeople have to face uncomfortable questions about how they’re going to pay for damages awarded by ISDS tribunals to multinational corporations. You will also see it clearly when demonstrations and protests of the TPP never go away. Finally, you will see it clearly when the US Supreme Court someday rules on the constitutionality of the TPP, when plaintiffs who have had to pay higher taxes to cover the costs of TPP awards sue in US Courts on constitutionality grounds."
"And before you say such awards will never happen, please keep in mind that little Ecuador has already sustained a $2.3 Billion judgment on behalf of Occidental Petroleum in an ISDS dispute over “expected lost profits” authorized by the bilateral “free trade” agreement between Ecuador and the United States. An award against the United States of similar proportions given the size of our economy compared to Ecuador’s, would be $340 Billion."
https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/WikiLeaks-TPP-Investment-Chapter.pdf
The “Free Trade Agreements (FTAs)” and "Most Favored Trade Statuses (MFNs)" and the PNTRs granted to third world nations by the US government in the last twenty years economically requires that US businesses utilize foreign labor, foreign environmental regulations, and foreign electrical costs, if they want to provide the lowest possible price in the USA for each US consumer purchase, instead of that US business going bankrupt.
Most of the unemployed in the USA were terminated from their jobs because of the Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses that were granted by the last three US presidents that economically caused US jobs to relocate to third world nations whenever possible, when US citizens refuse to work for the third world pay scales!
Which party is in opposition to relocating US jobs to third world nations?
Not the Democrats!
Not the Republicans!
Most of the unemployed in the USA were terminated from their jobs because of the Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses that were granted by the last three US presidents that economically caused US jobs to relocate to third world nations whenever possible, when US citizens refuse to work for the third world pay scales!
Which party is in opposition to relocating US jobs to third world nations?
Not the Democrats!
Not the Republicans!
1
The displaced Texas workers won't be able to afford a 300 dollar smart phone made in China.
President Obama needed to ditch the advice of Summers and Rubin...but he is ever respectful of powerful interest groups. We can only await the outcome of the newest attempt at coalition building (between the U.S. and its trading partners, the business elites in the U.S. and the business elites of its trading partners and the lobbying/interest groups representing wall street). I hope I am wrong in my forecasting and the President is proven right....but based on past history I am not optimistic.
5
...neither is Senator Sanders:
"The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy. It will also negatively impact some of the poorest people in the world.
The TPP is a treaty that has been written behind closed doors by the corporate world. Incredibly, while Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry and major media companies have full knowledge as to what is in this treaty, the American people and members of Congress do not. They have been locked out of the process.
Further, all Americans, regardless of political ideology, should be opposed to the “fast track” process which would deny Congress the right to amend the treaty and represent their constituents’ interests."
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/the-trans-pacific-trade-tpp-agree...
"The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy. It will also negatively impact some of the poorest people in the world.
The TPP is a treaty that has been written behind closed doors by the corporate world. Incredibly, while Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry and major media companies have full knowledge as to what is in this treaty, the American people and members of Congress do not. They have been locked out of the process.
Further, all Americans, regardless of political ideology, should be opposed to the “fast track” process which would deny Congress the right to amend the treaty and represent their constituents’ interests."
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/the-trans-pacific-trade-tpp-agree...
1
Since we have low tariffs with the nations involved in the TPP, the Bill is likely about something else. Most likely it was about SOPA/PIPA involving censorship on internet transit with alleged copyright infractions. Such laws are probably beyond the capacity of Governments to enforce as IP addresses can be virtually encrypted. Of course the methods for this can be outlawed but businesses, in particular finance which largely controls our plutocracy would be against this. Also legislating against this may be like prohibition how do prosecute millions of citizens. Are we going to put 10 or 20 million in jail as opposed to the 2 million already? I resent the secrecy and the corporate negotiation of these agreements. The fact TPP can pass while overwhelmingly opposed by Republicans and Independents and with a slightly favorable democratic constituency with just the opposite profile in Congress shows that the public support has little to do with key legislation. While we have elections the U.S. is less a democracy than the China which broadly grows rapidly and whose government although not elected by the mass of the public acts more in the public interest.
8
What an irony it would be if the Congress passes this trade bill and the Court cripples and/or destroys the ACA! Eight years of intransigent, obnoxious do nothing but evil Congress and lots of voters still thinking that their Congress works for them. There is no language to describe how disheartening it is to see the ignomious end of democracy and to know that most Americans are oblivious.
28
The stability and affluence of the United States comes from all sharing in the prosperity but the way economic development is conducted internationally does not do that. Mostly elites get wealthy while the vast majority of people barely get by, far from making them prosperous, international businesses simply use them to keep margins high for sale in a few countries where people are mostly affluent. It makes for generous returns for investors while contributing to misery by raising hopes of people who have known poverty for generations but providing them with too little to actually prosper themselves.
5
The statement "Because trade agreements are understandably secret while they are being negotiated, it is hard to determine who is right" is preposterous. Just why are they "understandably" secret. There is no justification for this. Something that effects all of our lives economically should not be sprung on us as some surprise. In addition just when has any large corporation in recent history shared outsized benefits with its workers, most if them don't even want to pay a living minimum wage. They have in large part eviscerated benefits such as pensions and we are to expect them to share, really.
This is a not a "trust me" moment for the president or congress given that many of us do not trust the government to do the right thing but only to serve their oligarch managers. The TPP as little as we know about it appears only to serve the 1%.
This is a not a "trust me" moment for the president or congress given that many of us do not trust the government to do the right thing but only to serve their oligarch managers. The TPP as little as we know about it appears only to serve the 1%.
21
...proven here:
Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty: Advanced Investment Chapter working document for all 12 nations (January 20, 2015 draft)
https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/WikiLeaks-TPP-Investment-Chapter.pdf
Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty: Advanced Investment Chapter working document for all 12 nations (January 20, 2015 draft)
https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/WikiLeaks-TPP-Investment-Chapter.pdf
Were you referring to the $194 Billion Apple has amassed in off shore accounts? I'm sure Tim Cook, that darling of the NYT, is figuring out a way to lower the cost of iPhones and to pay civilized wages to his minions. I'm really sure.
The only reason for shipping manufacturing and jobs to Third World countries is because large corporations don't want any laws, labor or environmental. Why would they want to include restrictions in the new trade deals which they did don't want in the first place?. They also removed the choice for the consumer to buy American products if they wanted to. We are left with no choice but to buy junk from other countries. It is time to boycott products made in China as much as we can, if that's possible
13
We boycotted "Made in Japan" in the 1950's and brought the jobs home. We should all boycott Made in ____(any country that is not USA) even if we have to pay more out of our decreasing pay. Maybe we should just do without...a new television, appliance, etc. no matter how great and wonderful it looks on tv
US consumers will not pay more for US made products!
5
Yes they will. They just aren't paid enough to do so.
It's rather heartbreaking to watch the nation's sovereignty and democracy slowly being whittled away while our populace inexplicably and maddeningly remains fascinated by things that don't matter and the great New York Times' best editorial position on a super-secret trade act is that we need to "hope" for the best. I really don't think I've ever felt as betrayed by a politician I voted for as Barack Obama -- on trade, corporatism, militarism, privacy, secrecy and the prosecution of whistleblowers. Shame on him. Shame on us.
35
But almost nothing is "made in the USA" any more!
With headlines and stories in today's NYT like this:
"Qualcomm in Venture With Chinese Chip Maker"....China’s largest maker of chips has a new plan to help it close a wide gap with rivals, and the company has found some unlikely partners to help. S.M.I.C., said on Tuesday that it would form a new company with a leading Belgian microelectronics research center and Qualcomm, the American chip giant, to help it develop and produce new generations of advanced semiconductors that work as the brains of numerous electronics products, like smartphones and servers.
Don't expect much growth in our economy or improvement in our employment as American corporations clearly see the future of their operations (R&D, manufacturing, sales ) occuring outside the U.S..
"Qualcomm in Venture With Chinese Chip Maker"....China’s largest maker of chips has a new plan to help it close a wide gap with rivals, and the company has found some unlikely partners to help. S.M.I.C., said on Tuesday that it would form a new company with a leading Belgian microelectronics research center and Qualcomm, the American chip giant, to help it develop and produce new generations of advanced semiconductors that work as the brains of numerous electronics products, like smartphones and servers.
Don't expect much growth in our economy or improvement in our employment as American corporations clearly see the future of their operations (R&D, manufacturing, sales ) occuring outside the U.S..
8
This a sellout of the American worker by Obama, plain and simple.
22
How so? please be detailed.
Tis an Act of Treason.
Just Obama?
We need Domestic production for what we need and use here, and an Import market to bring in other goods.
6
The idea that this President will do other than pander to "Big" anything is quite off the mark. Should the next president be other than Bernie Sanders the rule of the new oligarchs will merely expand and be cemented in as money and money-making, no matter the damage, continues to be the rule of the day.
14
The President must overcome an international system corrupted by the extraordinary wealth and reach of business corporations that have come to dominate it. They use their vast wealth to buy small countries' governments, to pay labor such low wages that they cannot become consumers themselves, they daily pollute the air and water we all drink and dump waste anywhere as if it mattered not, and they do it all to serve fiduciary responsibility while making everyone's lives more precarious. If these short sighted and narrowly focused institutions are allowed to continue operating without any accountability they will leave our descendants with a wreck of an international system that will not even benefit those who those corporation managers think that they are serving.
It is in nobody's interest over the next century to perpetuate the misery and instability, including the hatred of developed nation that fuels terrorist behaviors, that comes from raising people a tad over starving to death but without a big enough share of their own productivity to become
It is in nobody's interest over the next century to perpetuate the misery and instability, including the hatred of developed nation that fuels terrorist behaviors, that comes from raising people a tad over starving to death but without a big enough share of their own productivity to become
5
"...It is in nobody's interest over the next century to perpetuate the misery and instability, including the hatred of developed nation that fuels terrorist behaviors, that comes from raising people a tad over starving to death but without a big enough share of their own productivity to become affluent enough to be able to take opportunities to prosper for themselves. It is in our best interests to live in a world where everyone shares our liberties and abilities to pursue happiness."
1
The headline is succinct and nearly complete. An opportunity now presents itself to reach better agreements - an opportunity that did not otherwise exist. The President has some leverage instead of no leverage.
Hopefully, the Trade Adjustment Assistance program can be rescued and restored after it got decoupled in the political machinations. Congress still has a role to play, now and going forward.
One need not be a naysayer or a cheerleader for this authority to place some expectation on the President (and his successor) to remain mindful of our interests - economic and environmental.
Hopefully, the Trade Adjustment Assistance program can be rescued and restored after it got decoupled in the political machinations. Congress still has a role to play, now and going forward.
One need not be a naysayer or a cheerleader for this authority to place some expectation on the President (and his successor) to remain mindful of our interests - economic and environmental.
3
I am not an American but I am crying for America. the motto of come here, work hard and you can make it seems all but over. I look at the movies of yesteryears and see a nation that was once the largest creditor to the world reduced to a nation of perennial debt and the largest debtor.
The lamp of the free world reduced to ashes.
The lamp of the free world reduced to ashes.
17
So since we're so doomed and all, you should probably pack a bag and leave tonight. Don't take any chances.
Congress has waived its constitutional prerogatives now it is an up or down vote. The people must make it clear that of the deal is not going to protect American jobs and American law, that voting for this deal will be political suicide and we have to start making it clear to Congress now. Those who gave into fast track should be made to pay a heavy political price.
14
The Problem is that those In WA DC that We Elected Don't give a damn about what we think need or want!
They really d believe that THEY ARE ABOVE US! Yet they have proven themselves to be some of the lowest forms of Humans On this Earth for they do not care about Life or this country all they care about are donations and Corporate Kickbacks!
If you don't believe that they receive Kickbacks then open your eyes to Our Reality!
They really d believe that THEY ARE ABOVE US! Yet they have proven themselves to be some of the lowest forms of Humans On this Earth for they do not care about Life or this country all they care about are donations and Corporate Kickbacks!
If you don't believe that they receive Kickbacks then open your eyes to Our Reality!
This represents the penultimate sellout by President Barack Obama to the Republican Congress that has repeatedly blocked him ever since he was elected.
The Rookie Democrat President has matured into a Republican Stooge.
The Rookie Democrat President has matured into a Republican Stooge.
18
unfortunately I must say this, Its OVER for the Americans. Not America. Americans.
trade agreement with US can mean only one thing - more outsourcing and more imports to US and larger deficits, less jobs. no two ways about it.
With Dollar as the reserve currency for now, I am sure somewhere in those agreements is a line asking all member nations to invest their surplus in US treasuries. It will make sure that Dollar is atleast in competition with Euro and chines yuan.
But ultimately, this will only translate into a Nation that is only a source of demand across the world. Supply coming from across the globe. Not sustainable. Less jobs. Less demand for those goods due to lower wages. Deflation. More currency printing by central banks.
Bill Clinton with NAFTA. Obama with this have just signed America to indebtedness. Its unfortunate. There is no other nation on this world with the resources and means to correct its course. What a fall !!
trade agreement with US can mean only one thing - more outsourcing and more imports to US and larger deficits, less jobs. no two ways about it.
With Dollar as the reserve currency for now, I am sure somewhere in those agreements is a line asking all member nations to invest their surplus in US treasuries. It will make sure that Dollar is atleast in competition with Euro and chines yuan.
But ultimately, this will only translate into a Nation that is only a source of demand across the world. Supply coming from across the globe. Not sustainable. Less jobs. Less demand for those goods due to lower wages. Deflation. More currency printing by central banks.
Bill Clinton with NAFTA. Obama with this have just signed America to indebtedness. Its unfortunate. There is no other nation on this world with the resources and means to correct its course. What a fall !!
11
This one did if for me. I'm done with obama, and I'm done with the traitorous democrats for good or bad. They sold this country's sovereignty to the corporations and oligarchs. We are now the united corporations of america. No need for a congress or a president or the supreme court that made them human.
19
Just don't trust the Republicans, either. Third party, anyone?
Please, NYT, stop calling this a trade deal! This is a benign-sounding label for an investment deal designed expressly to further the interests of global capital, irrespective of any collateral damage.
The United States owes its existence to a rebellion by Bostonians against abuse by prototype multinational corporation, the East India company. Now it seems, the US and its partners in the TPP are ready to subordinate their authority to make laws to an extra-judicial, extra-national tribunal. This is to submit to colonial status, in which the colonists are corporations.
The United States owes its existence to a rebellion by Bostonians against abuse by prototype multinational corporation, the East India company. Now it seems, the US and its partners in the TPP are ready to subordinate their authority to make laws to an extra-judicial, extra-national tribunal. This is to submit to colonial status, in which the colonists are corporations.
24
"Trust me". Doesn't cut it any more.
14
Here's what will come from this...not knowing where our food comes from, poisoned and unhealthy food, little or no oversight or enforced regulation in food safety abroad, more slave labor around the world, less inspections by the FDA because of budget cuts and the overwhelming amount of product that will be invading our shores, less employment in the USA and more profits for global corporations. If the Republicans are for this trade bill, you can be guaranteed it will be detrimental to the average American. Obama made a deal with the people who fought and hated him for years, so it doesn't take much to realize what a bad deal this has to be. Thanks Obama for selling out your country to your corporate donors.
17
The TPP is Obama's gift to the investor class, the manufacturing sector and the intellectual property sectors all of which have interests that are contrary to the needs of working people, here and abroad.
If congressional Democrats couldn't find the will backup on their hind legs and protect us, what makes the editors think that Obama, "betrayed" as he was during last weeks TPP votes, will protect our interests now?
The editorial would make a good prayer to recite kneeling by your bed each night, because now only God can help us.
If congressional Democrats couldn't find the will backup on their hind legs and protect us, what makes the editors think that Obama, "betrayed" as he was during last weeks TPP votes, will protect our interests now?
The editorial would make a good prayer to recite kneeling by your bed each night, because now only God can help us.
4
In these trade deals what the American people should get and what we actually get are quite different. With yesterday's agreement we will have even less say over what comes out of these negotiations.
President Obama says just trust me as other Presidents have done with horrid results for the American worker. When a politician no matter says just trust me we are most likely being told to walk the plank with a blindfold.
President Obama says just trust me as other Presidents have done with horrid results for the American worker. When a politician no matter says just trust me we are most likely being told to walk the plank with a blindfold.
1
Obama's the best Republican president we've had in many a year.
4
Giving negotiating Trade Authority to Obama was one of the dumber Congressiional blunders - among many.
Obama has shown again and again he is a terrible negotiator - and would fail Karrass 101 no question.
We can only pray that, once again, he doesn't 'give away the store'...
There is still the 'up or down' vote. We can Hope still...
Obama has shown again and again he is a terrible negotiator - and would fail Karrass 101 no question.
We can only pray that, once again, he doesn't 'give away the store'...
There is still the 'up or down' vote. We can Hope still...
4
The unions doomed themselves decades ago by not supporting the rights of workers around the world, but instead backing our imperialist, pro-corporate foreign policy that let's capital and goods move freely, but limits the movement and rights of humans all over the world.
1
Congress is now in lockstep with the president and we can only do good when there are people that are going to benefit from the Trade Adjustment Assistance.
Assistance may be a word most hard working Americans don't relate to but sometime in someone's life there was a time the United States needed a helping hand and what better way than being on the side of the recipient than on the side of that being another country the recipient?
Assistance may be a word most hard working Americans don't relate to but sometime in someone's life there was a time the United States needed a helping hand and what better way than being on the side of the recipient than on the side of that being another country the recipient?
I hope any business that thinks of relocating operations overseas as the result of this deal thinks again. Whole companies are being seized by some foreign governments and shut down with their trademarks or product lines stolen to be reorganized as something else and there is no recourse to reclaim what is stolen. Trade should be our manufactured goods made here and traded for their manufactured good created and made there and traded here....not our companies closing operations in this country for cheap labor and unregulated safety and environmental rules to made there and sell back here while we have nothing left to make here to sell anywhere.
8
America dies when this passes--then Americans die!
12
Who is 'Americans?' We've 20 million plus in illegal immigrants. We've increased H-1B visas by over 2x in just 4 years (Obama, not Reps, insisted on that one). Many schools can no longer teach to the average, as the teachers are so pressed to teach to kids that don't speak English. We spend more than any country on education per student than anywhere else in the world, but are told we spend too little. We are shamed when we are proud of our heritage - being told we are racists because early settlers in the south (and north) had slaves. Even though most of us don't even have ancestors related to those from the 1800s. Even though the entire globe is guilty of slavery - every country at some point, every one.
Who are Americans? We used to open our doors to refuges, and to a mix of those around the globe that choose to be here and sacrificed to do so. Now those that come expect this country to change to meet their needs. Change our constitution, our laws, our principles of self-reliance. It was those things that made this country great. Not the welfare and PC system we've become.
Who are Americans? We used to open our doors to refuges, and to a mix of those around the globe that choose to be here and sacrificed to do so. Now those that come expect this country to change to meet their needs. Change our constitution, our laws, our principles of self-reliance. It was those things that made this country great. Not the welfare and PC system we've become.
Why do I think that the winners in these trade deals will work in Wall Street Offices and not in main street factories? From a purely economic perspective I believe the trade deal is a wise move. From a purely historic perspective, the economic perspective never plays out as intended --- along the way, deals will be made, by this president or the next, which we will be told that in the long run will help the American worker, while in the short run, well, get your resume ready.
9
Why do you think the winners are on wall street only? Probably because that fits your political beliefs.
Free trade has minimal impact on banks or wall street. Wall street maked money off of the creation or sales of debt and equity, which are not affected much by free trade.
There is short term pain, no doubt, as US companies in some industries will face more competition than they are used to and some will go out of business. This of course is more than offset by the job growth in industries where the US expands production as it enters new markets. Basically we produce more of what we are good at, and less of what we are not, which produces jobs.
Free trade allows successful companies in the US to expand their production and sell overseas. It allows the US populous access to a wider variety of goods at better prices - which improves the lives mostly of the lower and middle class.
Free trade has minimal impact on banks or wall street. Wall street maked money off of the creation or sales of debt and equity, which are not affected much by free trade.
There is short term pain, no doubt, as US companies in some industries will face more competition than they are used to and some will go out of business. This of course is more than offset by the job growth in industries where the US expands production as it enters new markets. Basically we produce more of what we are good at, and less of what we are not, which produces jobs.
Free trade allows successful companies in the US to expand their production and sell overseas. It allows the US populous access to a wider variety of goods at better prices - which improves the lives mostly of the lower and middle class.
We have president who deeply criticized NAFTA while on the campaign trail in 2008. He promised to renegotiate NAFTA. Instead, he brings us the TPP i.e. NAFTA on steroids.
27
Nick,
If you think that all of Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama’s existing Free Trade Agreements (FTAs), Most Favored Nation (MFNs) trade statuses, and Permanent Normal Trade Relation (PNTRs) trade statuses with third world nations that these gentlemen unilaterally granted to third world nations were destructive for US middle class employment, relocating middle class US jobs to foreign nations, and LOWERING THE MIDDLE CLASS PAY scale for middle class US workers, then you had better hold onto YOUR HAT for when President Obama's Pacific Rim Treaty to comes into effect to relocate middle class US jobs to third world nations on an unlimited multi-nation WHOLESALE basis!
If you think that all of Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama’s existing Free Trade Agreements (FTAs), Most Favored Nation (MFNs) trade statuses, and Permanent Normal Trade Relation (PNTRs) trade statuses with third world nations that these gentlemen unilaterally granted to third world nations were destructive for US middle class employment, relocating middle class US jobs to foreign nations, and LOWERING THE MIDDLE CLASS PAY scale for middle class US workers, then you had better hold onto YOUR HAT for when President Obama's Pacific Rim Treaty to comes into effect to relocate middle class US jobs to third world nations on an unlimited multi-nation WHOLESALE basis!
Environmental and labor "protections" in these trade agreements are rhetirical cover so that a congress paid for by business interests can vote to approve the deal and claim they protected American workers. The provisions sre not enforceable, easily evaded and not enforced. Enforcement would raise costs on the companies leading the race to the bottom. They fight such protections domestically; why would they seek to enforce them against their own pecuniary interests?
18
Our temporarily elected hired help aka President Barack Obama, our two U.S. Senators and our U. S. Representative do not trust we the people enough a priori to let us know what nefarious scheme they are negotiating on our behalf in the TPPP. We can not blame divinely sanctioned royals nor armed tyrants for our conundrum.
Our leaders resemble, act and misgovern like "professional" wrestlers, clowns, ringmasters, gamblers and magicians for a reason. Our "fault" lies in not having the wisdom to pick plutocrat parents and/or our failure to incorporate ourselves into a legal fictional person who can "speak" with their money and lobbyists.
Fast track insures a bedazzling gambling all or nothing midnight hour show. "You been bamboozled. You been hoodwinked. You been had" from Malcolm X is what we can expect from this charade of a process.
"He is a politician" Reverend Jerimiah A. Wright, Jr. USMC/USN on then candidate Senator Obama is the basis for having no progressive liberal humane universal change that you can believe in, expect or trust. Unless and until we seek more that the lesser of two evils when voting we will have the governmental leadership that we have earned and deserve.
Our leaders resemble, act and misgovern like "professional" wrestlers, clowns, ringmasters, gamblers and magicians for a reason. Our "fault" lies in not having the wisdom to pick plutocrat parents and/or our failure to incorporate ourselves into a legal fictional person who can "speak" with their money and lobbyists.
Fast track insures a bedazzling gambling all or nothing midnight hour show. "You been bamboozled. You been hoodwinked. You been had" from Malcolm X is what we can expect from this charade of a process.
"He is a politician" Reverend Jerimiah A. Wright, Jr. USMC/USN on then candidate Senator Obama is the basis for having no progressive liberal humane universal change that you can believe in, expect or trust. Unless and until we seek more that the lesser of two evils when voting we will have the governmental leadership that we have earned and deserve.
6
If the TPP was good for the American People, the American People would have been able to read it. Instead the TPP was marked SECRET. Cuts in Medicare are being proposed to pay for parts of the TPP. The TPP will make it more difficult to buy generic drugs, and make prescription drugs more expensive. TPP is bad for America. If TPP was good for America, then we could read it and debate it. TPP is corrupt.
21
Astonishing we are not talking about our trade deficit. What other purposes should we be considering? Every country we negotiate with is only concerned about how much they can export. Shouldn't that be our concern too?
Without manufacturing we will eventually lose our wealth and become a third world country.
Here's my idea of a free trade agreement: We have THIS to trade. What THAT do you have to trade. Then we can trade. Selling us your cheap products is not trade. If you have nothing you want from us come and make the products here.
Every country in the trade agreement is trying to attract capital, except us. By us I mean the people who make up the U.S.A. economy, not just the big businesses who have no intention of retaining capitalism as the base of economics.
Very few things create wealth (such as natural resources or education) and manufacturing, not just consumption, is the base wealth creator for all great societies.
Just say NO to trade deficits. Say NO to any agreements that do not lower and finally end trade deficits. Please refer to Adam Smith's observations of trade deficits.
How am I supposed to bring manufacturing back to America if our government keeps giving away manufacturing. It's like swimming upstream. Maybe it's like salmon: after we swim upstream we die.
Without manufacturing we will eventually lose our wealth and become a third world country.
Here's my idea of a free trade agreement: We have THIS to trade. What THAT do you have to trade. Then we can trade. Selling us your cheap products is not trade. If you have nothing you want from us come and make the products here.
Every country in the trade agreement is trying to attract capital, except us. By us I mean the people who make up the U.S.A. economy, not just the big businesses who have no intention of retaining capitalism as the base of economics.
Very few things create wealth (such as natural resources or education) and manufacturing, not just consumption, is the base wealth creator for all great societies.
Just say NO to trade deficits. Say NO to any agreements that do not lower and finally end trade deficits. Please refer to Adam Smith's observations of trade deficits.
How am I supposed to bring manufacturing back to America if our government keeps giving away manufacturing. It's like swimming upstream. Maybe it's like salmon: after we swim upstream we die.
10
Eventually? we are third world today, we gave them our sovereignty on a silver platter.
1
The US Foreign Trade Deficit has created an economic situation where US gold; US currency; stocks, US title to US real estate, US businesses, US jobs, US securities, other privately owned US wealth, and title to other assets created by previous US generations are leaving the USA to pay people in foreign countries to manufacture the things that US citizens import and consume, and also to pay for our US government spending when the US government spends more than it collects in taxes and borrows US dollars back from these industrial foreigners by using title to US national wealth as mortgage collateral.
These amounts of US dollars leaving the USA are greater than they would be if US citizens in the USA were manufacturing more of the things in the USA that US citizens were consuming, rather than paying foreigners with US dollars to manufacture the things that US citizens consume.
We must change this economic situation or we will become a post WWI Germany economically where our currency has no buying power.
These amounts of US dollars leaving the USA are greater than they would be if US citizens in the USA were manufacturing more of the things in the USA that US citizens were consuming, rather than paying foreigners with US dollars to manufacture the things that US citizens consume.
We must change this economic situation or we will become a post WWI Germany economically where our currency has no buying power.
As I understand it, one of the most dreadful TPP provisions is that corporations can sue governments (local, state, national) for hindering their business, including in the United States.
What does that mean? Where I live along the Marcellus Shale, the gas companies are determined to be allowed to hydrofrack, but NY wisely has not allowed the gas companies to have their way and do to this beautiful part of the country (Finger Lakes, wineries, agriculture, tourism) what they did to PA (see "Gasland"). Plus, the gas companies have a serious problem of how and where to store the high volume of toxic waste water from the air and ground polluting extraction process.
For environmental, health, and zoning reasons, many local towns also banned fracking and the storage of waste water in their jurisdictions. The deep-pockets' gas companies tried to sue at least one little town for obstructing its business. Using the old foot-in-the door tactic, they leased plenty of land in the area before getting government permission to frack.
So according to the TPP, corporations can sue governments for standing in the way of business operations, which dramatically changes the relationship and balance of power between corporations and governments in the TPP nations.
The multinational corporations are licking their chops over this one--which brings up the question: what role did corporations play in the construction of the TPP, and what to they know about its provisions that people can not?
What does that mean? Where I live along the Marcellus Shale, the gas companies are determined to be allowed to hydrofrack, but NY wisely has not allowed the gas companies to have their way and do to this beautiful part of the country (Finger Lakes, wineries, agriculture, tourism) what they did to PA (see "Gasland"). Plus, the gas companies have a serious problem of how and where to store the high volume of toxic waste water from the air and ground polluting extraction process.
For environmental, health, and zoning reasons, many local towns also banned fracking and the storage of waste water in their jurisdictions. The deep-pockets' gas companies tried to sue at least one little town for obstructing its business. Using the old foot-in-the door tactic, they leased plenty of land in the area before getting government permission to frack.
So according to the TPP, corporations can sue governments for standing in the way of business operations, which dramatically changes the relationship and balance of power between corporations and governments in the TPP nations.
The multinational corporations are licking their chops over this one--which brings up the question: what role did corporations play in the construction of the TPP, and what to they know about its provisions that people can not?
18
It is even worse than PB suggests.
It is not a nromal right to sue, which would involve going into a US court for a public proceeding, but rather a right to bring a claim that is settled entirely by a panel of three arbitrators in a secret proceeding. The corporation has the right to select one of the arbitrators and to have a 50% say in the selection of another of the three. Unlike a legal suit where the parties do not select the judge, in the TPP process the corporation bringing the claim has a huge role in selecting the very people who will decide the claim in a secret proceeding from which there is no appeal.
Where are all the Republicans who are always complaining about loss of US sovereignty? With the exception of Rand Paul (with who I disagree with on many other issues), they are all in favor of TPP and giving corporations the right to damages if health, safety or environmental laws reduce their profits.
How can such a horrendous provision be included in a trade pact?
It is not a nromal right to sue, which would involve going into a US court for a public proceeding, but rather a right to bring a claim that is settled entirely by a panel of three arbitrators in a secret proceeding. The corporation has the right to select one of the arbitrators and to have a 50% say in the selection of another of the three. Unlike a legal suit where the parties do not select the judge, in the TPP process the corporation bringing the claim has a huge role in selecting the very people who will decide the claim in a secret proceeding from which there is no appeal.
Where are all the Republicans who are always complaining about loss of US sovereignty? With the exception of Rand Paul (with who I disagree with on many other issues), they are all in favor of TPP and giving corporations the right to damages if health, safety or environmental laws reduce their profits.
How can such a horrendous provision be included in a trade pact?
4
Here in the USA we have recently elected the very best congressmen, congresswomen, senators, governors, presidents and other government administrations that money can buy!
These elected and appointed officials do, however, offer their services, Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses Alaskan drilling permits, no-bid PAY TO PLAY government contracts funded from the public treasuries, military secrets to Communist China (Hughes Aircraft company Rocket Guidance Software - Google Chinagate), and their legislative votes for sale to US citizens and to foreigners, at very reasonable prices!
“Protectionism" for the wages and benefits for US workers has been almost entirely eliminated with NAFTA and all of the other recent Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses that were granted by the last three presidents!
Without High "Protectionism" import tariffs, US workers must compete with the pay rates of third world workers it the US worker wants a job.
Thank you Democrats! Thank you Republicans!
Where is Ross Perot who predicted all of this in 1992?
These elected and appointed officials do, however, offer their services, Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses Alaskan drilling permits, no-bid PAY TO PLAY government contracts funded from the public treasuries, military secrets to Communist China (Hughes Aircraft company Rocket Guidance Software - Google Chinagate), and their legislative votes for sale to US citizens and to foreigners, at very reasonable prices!
“Protectionism" for the wages and benefits for US workers has been almost entirely eliminated with NAFTA and all of the other recent Free Trade Agreements, the MFN and the PNTR trade statuses that were granted by the last three presidents!
Without High "Protectionism" import tariffs, US workers must compete with the pay rates of third world workers it the US worker wants a job.
Thank you Democrats! Thank you Republicans!
Where is Ross Perot who predicted all of this in 1992?
As to the alleged differences between the parties, the partnership between Obama and the Rupublicans on TPP might well go down as the best execution of 'good cop, bad cop' in history. In that strategy, it isn't about which rationale the dupe buys into, as long as they ultimately agree to be sold down the river.
14
This has been pitched as a way to redistribute manufacturing to feed the US consumer from militarizing, stealing, spying China to South East Asia.
But I believe Australia has just signed its own free trade agreement with China. So how is that going to work out? China free trades with Australia which does with the US. Goods can be funneled through Australian companies/
This means Free trade between China and the US?
There is no way to pretend it is anything else. And that is a very very bad idea geopolitically.
But I believe Australia has just signed its own free trade agreement with China. So how is that going to work out? China free trades with Australia which does with the US. Goods can be funneled through Australian companies/
This means Free trade between China and the US?
There is no way to pretend it is anything else. And that is a very very bad idea geopolitically.
6
TPP amounts to nothing more than a national garage sale of "Free Trade" rights allowing treaty signers wide open US markets for duty-free dumping their products. An ever-growing import deficit will hollow out the US economy and destroy our GNP.
1
Well, Australia is paying other countries to "take" migrants off their hands, and they're not too fussy about what happens to them once the swap is done. Have you seen the stories about the camps in Indonesia and Malaysia? Sounds like slave labor to me. There will be lots more of this.
1
"Because trade agreements are understandably secret while they are being negotiated." What nonsense! The only people the content of these deals was secret to (until Wikileaks) were average Americans and the rank and file politicians who allegedly represent them. The president's negotiating team and the many many corporate advisory councils set up to write the sections of the deal that affected their industry had no such "secrecy" to deal with. I guess its "understandable it was not secret to them. I mean they were writing the deal right? Our so-called government negotiators mostly merely took dictation. Why is it "understandable" the people affected are given no information when the corporations and their errand boys are given the information? "Understandable" I thought corporations were just deemed people. Was there another ruling that put them above us? Or was that "understandably" done in secret as well. NYT editorial board please expand on your understanding of "understandable". BTW previous trade deals have placed the major issues on the table and looked to feedback from the general public. Some democracies (that's the form of government the US used to have before it became an oligarchy) actually have referendums to decided these sorts of issues. Can't imagine the US having a referendum on this issue or gun control, the endless war policy or Wall Street bailouts or infrastructure funding. I wonder why?
24
Once the TPP text is made public, it will become obvious that it's main purpose is to strengthen the hand of multi-national corporations to lower U.S. Payrolls and raise prices. Both of these would further erode the wage-based purchasing power of U.S. workers which is the fuel that powers our entire economic system. Any program which negatively impacts our struggling middle class should be voted down. Hiding our fiscal problem behind easy personal credit bubbles merely delays the day of reckoning.
22
IF the TPP text is made public!
Then we can vote it done.
Either make changes or start over.
4
Well folks, the political theatre is letting out, and you can all go home satisfied with the happy ending that the trade deal passed.
Would be interesting to look at a scrap book of all the comments over the past few weeks after articles in the NYT claiming the deal was somehow "dead." What twattle.
There is no question that free trade raises the GNP -- that's pure Adam Smith. What is amazing is the cynicism of these politicians who piously claim they support the working man, when the fact is that each of these agreement mean permanent unemployment for blue collar workers.
Seriously, for what job could you possibly "re-train" a 50+ with no college degree than burger flipping? And anyway, the millennials already have those jobs locked up.
But wait! There will be some govt. program to help out, and that will at least create work for bureaucrats, no matter that the program is useless.
Would be interesting to look at a scrap book of all the comments over the past few weeks after articles in the NYT claiming the deal was somehow "dead." What twattle.
There is no question that free trade raises the GNP -- that's pure Adam Smith. What is amazing is the cynicism of these politicians who piously claim they support the working man, when the fact is that each of these agreement mean permanent unemployment for blue collar workers.
Seriously, for what job could you possibly "re-train" a 50+ with no college degree than burger flipping? And anyway, the millennials already have those jobs locked up.
But wait! There will be some govt. program to help out, and that will at least create work for bureaucrats, no matter that the program is useless.
9
This is why the Constitution gave us flexible interpretation and expansion of powers where necessary. Congress has made the right decision here. President's must preside in light of their times.
1
We can all agree that, for better or for worse, the ball is in the court of President Obama to negotiate a Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal which avoids the job-loss mistakes of Nafta and dodges the other pitfalls on the environment, pharmaceutical patent largesse and access to American courts by aggressive foreign companies.
While pressure needs to be maintained on the White House, of even greater concern is the danger of back-pedaling on Capitol Hill. Negotiating a fair trade agreement and implementing it honestly should be made daily topics in the run-up to the 2016 elections.
While pressure needs to be maintained on the White House, of even greater concern is the danger of back-pedaling on Capitol Hill. Negotiating a fair trade agreement and implementing it honestly should be made daily topics in the run-up to the 2016 elections.
3
I rate Obama with two colums. The good column is ending the wars (at least for the time being), opening to Cuba, Obamacare (fell short but better than nothing), etc.
The bad column is composed of NDAA 2012, NSA spying galore, high interest rates for student loans in spite of all the pretty talk, etc.
These agreements, TPP and TIPP, undoubtedly go on the bad column, joining NAFTA, etc.
How different these democrats of today from the ones 60 years ago! Even Eisenhower looks progressive when compared to them.
The bad column is composed of NDAA 2012, NSA spying galore, high interest rates for student loans in spite of all the pretty talk, etc.
These agreements, TPP and TIPP, undoubtedly go on the bad column, joining NAFTA, etc.
How different these democrats of today from the ones 60 years ago! Even Eisenhower looks progressive when compared to them.
11
The mask is completely off now.
Obama's frantic push to get this monstrous agreement passed demonstrates who he is really loyal to: He had to rely on Republicans to pass a law which will further the destruction of the middle class and give away American sovereignty to corporate lawyers.
He is following in the steps of Bill Clinton, who sold out the Democrats and was rewarded by being paid hundreds of millions of dollars by the oligarchy. I have no doubt but what Obama's hundred-thousand-dollar speech itinerary is being prepared right now.
And Hillary Clinton wants to be the next recipient of corporate money, which is why she would not condemn the thing. If we do not elect Bernie Sanders, the country is probably beyond repair.
BERNIE IN '16
Obama's frantic push to get this monstrous agreement passed demonstrates who he is really loyal to: He had to rely on Republicans to pass a law which will further the destruction of the middle class and give away American sovereignty to corporate lawyers.
He is following in the steps of Bill Clinton, who sold out the Democrats and was rewarded by being paid hundreds of millions of dollars by the oligarchy. I have no doubt but what Obama's hundred-thousand-dollar speech itinerary is being prepared right now.
And Hillary Clinton wants to be the next recipient of corporate money, which is why she would not condemn the thing. If we do not elect Bernie Sanders, the country is probably beyond repair.
BERNIE IN '16
28
What I find to be amazing is that the one trade deal no one is talking about is also probably, no definitely, the largest of the three. TPP and TTIP cover roughly 40% of Global GDP. The third Trade Agreement, the Trade in Services Agreement or TiSA, cover 2/3 of Global GDP itself. It opens up to Global trade the services sector including Telecommunications, ECommerce, Finance, Airport Services, among others. The scale of TiSA is unheard of and a draft was leaked recently through WikiLeaks. Among contentious items in the agreement are "Stand-Still" clauses that lock in regulations, eviscerating nation's sovereign right to legislate future regulations, even in the financial sector! It would also Privatize the Mail Services sector, opening up Postal Services to foreign competition.
Yet, nowhere in the draft of TiSA is there any mechanical function to enforce Labor or Environmental standards. So much for a good deal...
Yet, nowhere in the draft of TiSA is there any mechanical function to enforce Labor or Environmental standards. So much for a good deal...
8
Mr. Obama sold out the American worker to the Wall Street corporations who are shipping all our jobs to places like China.
Mr. Obama in no better than Mitch McConnell or John Boehner.
Period.
Mr. Obama in no better than Mitch McConnell or John Boehner.
Period.
17
Actually, Mr. Obama is much much worse, Mitch and John don't hide their values, Mr. Obama has lied about his values from the very beginning of his campaign to be president.
For a guy who's done nothing but give speeches, I've heard nothing..zero.. from the President on why this trade agreement is in the country's best interest.
8
Obama is not a strong negotiator. I hope he has the good sense and humility to enlist experienced people in this phase of the deal.
4
We need more comments like Jon Tan's comment.
1
It may be more to the next president than to Obama and a Republican congress.
The reason so many Americans have bad feelings in their guts about this negotiation is simple. Why would any country negotiate America into a better position? Our borders are wide open while other nations levy HUGE taxes and import barriers on our products. So, what is in it for another country that is already dumping products on us through Walmart and already restricting access to our products? Nothing. SO, why would they sign a trade agreement? Only one reason, because it will be an even better deal for them.
If Obama were a good negotiator, he would first levy HUGE import taxes on every nation not currently covered by a trade agreement. THEN, and only then would he negotiate - from a position of strength - for a fair and equitable agreement.
If Obama were a good negotiator, he would first levy HUGE import taxes on every nation not currently covered by a trade agreement. THEN, and only then would he negotiate - from a position of strength - for a fair and equitable agreement.
8
The level of my disgust with Obama is difficult to put into words. I donated and rang doorbells for him. I'll be for a trade pact when it does not need to include job mitigation provisions, it's that simple.
But my level of disgust on this issue transcends Obama. A lifelong Democrat, I renounced my party citizenship, I'm done with those idiots. I've called all of my elected officials multiple times on the issue and made it clear I'm no longer a Democrat, yesterday I stopped by the county elections office on my way home, I'm now unaffiliated.
But my level of disgust on this issue transcends Obama. A lifelong Democrat, I renounced my party citizenship, I'm done with those idiots. I've called all of my elected officials multiple times on the issue and made it clear I'm no longer a Democrat, yesterday I stopped by the county elections office on my way home, I'm now unaffiliated.
19
Good for you, I will try to do the same.
I'm struck as I have been from the beginning of vitriolic Democratic resistance to TPP with the assumption by the left of what once was a hallmark of the right: protectionism.
Upwards of 45 MILLION middle-class American jobs depend on global trade, directly and indirectly. We do ourselves no favors by seeking to limit it.
Upwards of 45 MILLION middle-class American jobs depend on global trade, directly and indirectly. We do ourselves no favors by seeking to limit it.
When Disney planned to have the US tech workers retrain their H1-B replacements from India, we all see just who benefits. And China was left out. Do you think Bangladesh and Vietnam will be any different than China? China was only left out because they weren't such malleable little dimwits to be exploited; they are now a threat to western multi-national grasp on economic power.
So Obama, and the Democrats, joined the Republicans, who are suing the President over the the Administration's abuse of power regarding the Affordable Act Care, to pass TPP. Unbelievable!
7
A thank you for this belated analysis of this deal. Having this discussion prior to the vote would have been much more useful to the US. Given the primary objective you give to Obama, it would be instructive to see how successful the worker, environmental, and other protections included in previous trade treaties have been. Have the protections been ignored, have they been underfunded to guarantee failure? A follow up analysis of these provisions would be very helpful as we face a future dominated by Corporate interests.
5
While the Republican in me supports this 100%.
As someone who has traveled to many of these countries in discussion, it is a reasonable observation that folks in those countries enjoy better infrastructure, vacations, health care, maternity & old age benefits etc.
Also in many of these countries taxes for Corporations bringing in business is low, hence the big companies move and park wealth there.
Back to the Republican in me, the Non Union States in the USA are doing better in the last few years by raising employment levels, SC, MI, IN, TN etc.
Maybe the problem is the throttle hold of the Unions, who, massaged by the Dems have gotten too detached from the global reality.
As someone who has traveled to many of these countries in discussion, it is a reasonable observation that folks in those countries enjoy better infrastructure, vacations, health care, maternity & old age benefits etc.
Also in many of these countries taxes for Corporations bringing in business is low, hence the big companies move and park wealth there.
Back to the Republican in me, the Non Union States in the USA are doing better in the last few years by raising employment levels, SC, MI, IN, TN etc.
Maybe the problem is the throttle hold of the Unions, who, massaged by the Dems have gotten too detached from the global reality.
The funding for the Trade Adjustment Assistance program should come directly from the multinational corporations who are urgently pressuring (and 'paying') the administration and Congress to support and pass Fast Track and the accompanying 'trade' agreements. Why should American citizens not only loose their jobs because of corporate control of the US Government, but then also have to pay for their own assistance program through both taxes and decreased benefits in other social programs (e.g., Medicare)?
6
Truth is: no one wants this--not democrats, not republicans, not the American people. The best argument Obama has made for this deal is: "trust me, it's good." Is this the new bipartisan? To unite against the will of voters in favor of multinational corporations?
Voted for Clinton twice; voted for this guy twice--will not vote for the next in line, Hillary. 95% of voters want reasonable gun control and it stalls in congress. Almost no one wants TPA and it goes right through. This is democracy?
Voted for Clinton twice; voted for this guy twice--will not vote for the next in line, Hillary. 95% of voters want reasonable gun control and it stalls in congress. Almost no one wants TPA and it goes right through. This is democracy?
14
If the trade agreement,strongly supported by Obama,against vigorous opposition from Democrats is passed and then Obama receives 30 million dollars personally or into a newly formed "Obama Foundation" from the business leaders who benefit most, will he he praised like the Clintons as crafty and slick politicians or condemned for his corruption?
Mr Obama is wrong.
TPP is nothing more than wealth transfer from the U.S. to Asian countries. Also, no use setting up an agreement if you can't trust them. Japan has been cheating since day 1.
Simple question: is the US richer today? Have wages grown? The answer is no. US wages have stagnated for 20 years. Proof that what is happening is a transfer of wealth from the US to these countries so that the thinking is they get richer (at our expense), they buy our goods (not happening bc they cheat), averts poverty and destabilization, averts war (China threatens us even today).
NAFTA as an example, transferred US wealth, manufacturing and 750,000 jobs to Mexico. Pre-NAFTA, the U.S. had a massive trade surplus with Mexico. Post-NAFTA, the U.S. has a slight trade deficit with Mexico.
TPP is nothing more than wealth transfer from the U.S. to Asian countries. Also, no use setting up an agreement if you can't trust them. Japan has been cheating since day 1.
Simple question: is the US richer today? Have wages grown? The answer is no. US wages have stagnated for 20 years. Proof that what is happening is a transfer of wealth from the US to these countries so that the thinking is they get richer (at our expense), they buy our goods (not happening bc they cheat), averts poverty and destabilization, averts war (China threatens us even today).
NAFTA as an example, transferred US wealth, manufacturing and 750,000 jobs to Mexico. Pre-NAFTA, the U.S. had a massive trade surplus with Mexico. Post-NAFTA, the U.S. has a slight trade deficit with Mexico.
96
Mexico did not prosper from NAFTA - the country suffered because of it. If you want to see who benefited:
http://tacna.net/companies-succeeding-in-mexico/
The TPP is a gift to our 1%. These are people who don't even feel any loyalty to American workers, so tell me how you expect them to deal favorably with foreign workers?
http://tacna.net/companies-succeeding-in-mexico/
The TPP is a gift to our 1%. These are people who don't even feel any loyalty to American workers, so tell me how you expect them to deal favorably with foreign workers?
Politics make strange bedfellows. President Obama and Republican power structure in bed together to pass this secret trade bill making me feel very strange indeed. Soon we will see what all this secrecy and money brings us.
41
It is hard to fathom that this trade pact is even on the table. It is difficult to understand that the president is behind such an agreement. Why does he feel that the middle class should be trampled on in such a way? Allowing corporations to circumvent regulations and laws alone will burden the taxpayer into hardship. Civil unrest could follow. It is truly frightening to contemplate the possible future based on where this pact could lead us.
It is time for a peaceful civil revolution in this country, starting at the voting booth. We need a different kind of representation in Washington. What is there now, and, what has been there in the recent past, is not working for the best interests of the majority of Americans.
It is time for a peaceful civil revolution in this country, starting at the voting booth. We need a different kind of representation in Washington. What is there now, and, what has been there in the recent past, is not working for the best interests of the majority of Americans.
79
It is hard to imagine since there is nothing on the table yet.
" He has made the case that in addition to increasing trade and bolstering the economy, these deals are strategically important because they will strengthen American ties with Asian, European and Latin American nations."
Why don't you just say that the last vestige of American Independence from the known failure of capital economics is soon to be crushed by a cabal of incompetent global oligarchs who are now contemplating the last of the great human World Wars just to save face.
Why don't you just say that the last vestige of American Independence from the known failure of capital economics is soon to be crushed by a cabal of incompetent global oligarchs who are now contemplating the last of the great human World Wars just to save face.
36
As a small business owner that exports about 50% of sales, I can tell you that trade rules are heavily stacked against us. Many countries levy huge import fees against our products. I sell very little into South America. Recently, I shipped an order down there and the customer had to pay something on the order of 50% in taxes and fees and had to fight through all kinds of red tape to get his package. He had to hire some kind of broker to work through the mess of red tape.
Not being a member VAT nation is a huge problem driving trade imbalances. A VAT nation can export to non VAT member nation with no taxes assessed. Any products shipped from the non VAT nation into the VAT country has VAT assessed. This give their products about a 20% price advantage over ours through trade. It also drives American manufacturing overseas to overcome the imbalance. Then they hide the profits over there and we lose the tax revenue.
China blocks many of our websites. If an American company wants to do business in China, it has to set up shop there with a 50% Chinese owner.
Wild swings in currency can make our products affordable or impossible to buy. Currency valuations and manipulations are a huge problem. There is no stability.
Meanwhile, we let everything in with virtually no import fees, which fills our store shelves with cheap junk made with slave level wages and no environmental protection. This kills American production.
Something has to be done.
Not being a member VAT nation is a huge problem driving trade imbalances. A VAT nation can export to non VAT member nation with no taxes assessed. Any products shipped from the non VAT nation into the VAT country has VAT assessed. This give their products about a 20% price advantage over ours through trade. It also drives American manufacturing overseas to overcome the imbalance. Then they hide the profits over there and we lose the tax revenue.
China blocks many of our websites. If an American company wants to do business in China, it has to set up shop there with a 50% Chinese owner.
Wild swings in currency can make our products affordable or impossible to buy. Currency valuations and manipulations are a huge problem. There is no stability.
Meanwhile, we let everything in with virtually no import fees, which fills our store shelves with cheap junk made with slave level wages and no environmental protection. This kills American production.
Something has to be done.
116
And your "democratic" President and mine, was just handed the last nail, to seal the coffin containing our murdered democracy, by his Republican partners.
Surreal ...
Surreal ...
1
Something is being done! The Republican house and senate are hard at work destroying environmental protection and reducing wages to slave levels.
Do you think trading with those other Asian nations will be any different than trading with China? If US workers have to compete globally, then so should US industry. Jon Tan was right and so was the gentleman who said Medicare and US wealth (other than plutocrats') will be depleted.
1
>
"Now, it is up to the administration to reach deals with other nations that live up to the high standards on labor rights, environmental protection, access to medicines and other issues that Mr. Obama has said he supports." NYTIMES
Seldom has the NYT's ED Board generated such a naive and empty statement. Hope is not a plan. It is an empty thought the organism uses to delude itself.
“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.”
Nietzsche
This the most cynical episode of the Obama Administration went against the American worker and people. Obama fought harder for this than he did the ACA or many other issues. There are other countries that do not need or use fast track. I could go on but what a waste of time it would be.
The rich will continue to get richer, the poor poorer, and the very poor will be given a slave labor job, which the bourgeoisie will always point out as a triumph of their ideology.
"Alas, tis terrible to be wise when it brings the wise man no reward."
Sophocles
"Now, it is up to the administration to reach deals with other nations that live up to the high standards on labor rights, environmental protection, access to medicines and other issues that Mr. Obama has said he supports." NYTIMES
Seldom has the NYT's ED Board generated such a naive and empty statement. Hope is not a plan. It is an empty thought the organism uses to delude itself.
“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.”
Nietzsche
This the most cynical episode of the Obama Administration went against the American worker and people. Obama fought harder for this than he did the ACA or many other issues. There are other countries that do not need or use fast track. I could go on but what a waste of time it would be.
The rich will continue to get richer, the poor poorer, and the very poor will be given a slave labor job, which the bourgeoisie will always point out as a triumph of their ideology.
"Alas, tis terrible to be wise when it brings the wise man no reward."
Sophocles
95
The NYTimes Ed Board supported the TPP wholeheartedly. Now that they have their wish, is this their phony attempt to support the middle class, who will only lose more jobs because of this stupidity? Sorry, I'm not buying.
1
It doesn't matter what political party we vote for; the results are always the same, always predictable. Trade agreements are, by definition, by and for corporate interests. Given that corporate and financial elites bankroll our political system, there is absolutely no mystery about who these trade deals are going to benefit, and who is going to lose (despite the waves of carefully crafted rhetoric we are going to get from the president and others insisting otherwise). The winners will be the same elites who are clamoring for the agreement, the losers will be the rest of us. That's the world they've constructed -- the world that the rest of us seem increasingly powerless to do anything about.
271
But who are the Corporate interests? The values are always changing, but the market value of the NYSE is only about 80% of the market value of pensions
That's what Nader said.
The "Perception Management", team, the top few people from several psychological manipulate groups, in the employ of our government, pulled out all the stops in order to give the most insincere President our nation ever had, the exclusive right to fast track two trade laws, that guarantee American corporations the power, and the right, to use the least expensive labor available, where ever such is available.
And lest anyone forget, or be unaware, know that the pacts, both of them, were kept secret from the people, and members of Congress, we're only permitted to read the pacts, alone, supervised, prohibited from taking notes, and prohibited from disclosing any content to anyone.
What part of this is democratic, and beneficial to workers, anywhere ?
And insofar as increasing wages for workers in other nations, that's a pipe dream, specifically designed to weaken objection.
So welcome one and all to Feudalism, with the .01%ters as as the Lords, and the rest of us relegated to a future of drudgery, as modern day serfs.
And lest anyone forget, or be unaware, know that the pacts, both of them, were kept secret from the people, and members of Congress, we're only permitted to read the pacts, alone, supervised, prohibited from taking notes, and prohibited from disclosing any content to anyone.
What part of this is democratic, and beneficial to workers, anywhere ?
And insofar as increasing wages for workers in other nations, that's a pipe dream, specifically designed to weaken objection.
So welcome one and all to Feudalism, with the .01%ters as as the Lords, and the rest of us relegated to a future of drudgery, as modern day serfs.
24
Obama is throwing middle class Americans under the bus and I can't figure out what he can possibly get from McConnell and Boehner that would make this deal beneficial to working class Americans!
47
The fact that Republicans, who have sworn that they will never support anything with Obama's name on it, have supported this bill is a red flag. The people who control the GOP, the .01% who own most of the money in the world, want this so bad that they have ordered their Republican minions to betray their anti-Obama vows to put this through.
If that isn't enough to prove how bad the TPP is, the fact that Obama has dissed Elizabeth Warren and kissed up to Boehner and McConnell should open your eyes to the fact that we are about to get something far worse than NAFTA.
RIP, American Middle Class.
If that isn't enough to prove how bad the TPP is, the fact that Obama has dissed Elizabeth Warren and kissed up to Boehner and McConnell should open your eyes to the fact that we are about to get something far worse than NAFTA.
RIP, American Middle Class.
146
I assume once these negotiations are over we will all be able to read the whole thing via a link in the New York Times so we know who is selling what to whom . The job training bill part will be of little use if we have no jobs for the people trained in America
"They should bar, or at least strongly discourage, countries from manipulating their currencies to bolster exports at the expense of businesses in other countries." It's the "or at least strongly discourage" that is unacceptable.
American voters need to see what is in this secret deal. And then we need to figure out whom to trust. Right now I only trust Bernie Sanders.
"They should bar, or at least strongly discourage, countries from manipulating their currencies to bolster exports at the expense of businesses in other countries." It's the "or at least strongly discourage" that is unacceptable.
American voters need to see what is in this secret deal. And then we need to figure out whom to trust. Right now I only trust Bernie Sanders.
72
Assume, Bev, makes an ASS out of U and ME. The trade deal will remain secret because it can, now that fast track authority has beewn given to Obama. Without that the trade deal could have been debated and amended which means it would have had to be revealed in entirety to the public. Obama and his 13 Democratic DINO Senators have put an end to that possibility. Congress now gets an up and down vote. No amendments. Each Congressman can speak about it for up to 84 seconds. Barney Frank said he knows of Congresspersons who take that long to clear their throats. Thank you President Obama. Thank you DINOS. For giving away the economic future of the increasingly decimated middle class of America.
1
A timely statement by the NYT Editorial Board. I thank you.
Now, across the hall, at the Newsroom, is where the central responsibility will lie in the ensuing months and years, as this little horror of a piece of legislation goes into operation. Failures of our trade partners, as inevitable as the sunrise, will occur. We are asking you to find them, and report them. Please do this, even if the administration and its allies beg you not to.
We are counting on you.
Now, across the hall, at the Newsroom, is where the central responsibility will lie in the ensuing months and years, as this little horror of a piece of legislation goes into operation. Failures of our trade partners, as inevitable as the sunrise, will occur. We are asking you to find them, and report them. Please do this, even if the administration and its allies beg you not to.
We are counting on you.
19
Who are you kidding? No one. Obama has no interest in reaching good deals for American workers or other humans in the US. His constituency is the big multinational corporations and the billionaires who want to cut out the middle man --Legislators state houses and even cities. Corporations already use US courts to beat down government entities who dare to try and regulate them for the good of humans; now they will have a secret international arbitration panel to run to. Obama will definitely use Fast Track To help someone but it won't be humans or the little guy.
I am sick of Obama cheerleaders who want to ignore the things he has done (not said) and still want to pretend that he gives a damn.
I am sick of Obama cheerleaders who want to ignore the things he has done (not said) and still want to pretend that he gives a damn.
68
I've been baffled by the President's gung ho support for these trade deals, given his early stances on how they hurt American workers. it's as if he has an evil internal twin that has suddenly burst forth from his soul into the arms of big business.
What bothers me so much about the very little we know about TPP and others is this: so much of the "happy talk" about expanding ties, forging new environmental and labor policies to benefit countries and workers, doesn't have good precedent. When has the US ever been able to enforce any international agreement on anything that any sovereign nation chooses to flout?
Second, is the part about the huge profits corporations will make through these but not necessarily share with employees. It seems lose-lose for US workers: either their jobs or their raises will be affected.
Finally, this little warning from the NYT editorial board bothers me most: "And the deals must not contain overreaching investor protection clauses that allow foreign businesses to file frivolous and abusive arbitration claims against governments by contending they were hurt by laws and regulations." That's a great idea: but who will propose and enforce it, since large corporations have much to gain. Remember, companies value investors more than workers.
Every trade bill has winners and losers, and don't you know we know that. Once again, I think the President has been more star-struck by legacy than political principle.
What bothers me so much about the very little we know about TPP and others is this: so much of the "happy talk" about expanding ties, forging new environmental and labor policies to benefit countries and workers, doesn't have good precedent. When has the US ever been able to enforce any international agreement on anything that any sovereign nation chooses to flout?
Second, is the part about the huge profits corporations will make through these but not necessarily share with employees. It seems lose-lose for US workers: either their jobs or their raises will be affected.
Finally, this little warning from the NYT editorial board bothers me most: "And the deals must not contain overreaching investor protection clauses that allow foreign businesses to file frivolous and abusive arbitration claims against governments by contending they were hurt by laws and regulations." That's a great idea: but who will propose and enforce it, since large corporations have much to gain. Remember, companies value investors more than workers.
Every trade bill has winners and losers, and don't you know we know that. Once again, I think the President has been more star-struck by legacy than political principle.
60
Obama has no evil twin, he's evil all by himself. You're just been fooled by his 'leftwing black community organizer' act. For crying out loud, snap out of it you've been suckered by this guy, along with too many others.
7
The New York Times has once again--as in the runup to Iraq--failed to give adequate information to its readers. I second your concerns Maureen but by reading other sources I'm aware -- through the Wikileaked documents--that the TPPA will increase patent lengths on pharmaceuticals and thereby impare access to cheaper generics; interfere with intellectual property, a favorite issue of copyright holders like Disney, and that ISDS --Investor-State Dispute Settlement -- is more dangerous than ISIS--yes, you read that right--because it allows corporations to sue governments for loss of ANTICIPATED profits if the government regulation can be alleged to do so (Big Tobacco sued Australia under such a pact for wanting to have blank cigarette labels. ) and governments can'tr sue the corporations under ISDS which operates in a new administrative court set up different from the WTO and which is very corporate friendly.
Now we should all be asking this: How is it that no Republican voted for Obama's bailout measures and no Repub. voted for the ACA. And that Obama never went to bat for single-payer, not one call to a congressman or esp. to Sen. Baucus and Lieberman who killed single-payer. Yet here he is the most aloof president in history schmoozing up Democrats on TPPA to get fast track Authority. And the lame-stream media takes no notice of this. Say goodbye to the idea of equality of opportunity. Say goodbye to the pursuit of happiness. Say hello to our corporate masters.
Now we should all be asking this: How is it that no Republican voted for Obama's bailout measures and no Repub. voted for the ACA. And that Obama never went to bat for single-payer, not one call to a congressman or esp. to Sen. Baucus and Lieberman who killed single-payer. Yet here he is the most aloof president in history schmoozing up Democrats on TPPA to get fast track Authority. And the lame-stream media takes no notice of this. Say goodbye to the idea of equality of opportunity. Say goodbye to the pursuit of happiness. Say hello to our corporate masters.
8
"Democratic lawmakers opposed the bill. They are worried it ...will hurt American workers, make it harder for people in poor nations to buy generic drugs, lead to environmental degradation and provide outsized benefits to big corporations that will not necessarily be shared by workers."
Unpacking this one issue at a time:
1. "It will hurt America workers" - if trading with people in other countries is bad for us ... then we are doomed because trade has happened and will happen whether or not this deal happens. 2. "make it harder for people in poor nations to buy generic drugs, lead to environmental degradation" (I am assuming that the environmental degradation fear is tied to the poor countries) - Shouldn't we leave it to the leaders of these other countries, most of them democratically elected, to decide whether free trade is good for them or not? We Americans can't come to consensus on those issues in THIS country. Now we are deciding what's good in other countries? 3. "provide outsized benefits to big corporations that will not necessarily be shared by workers." - Big corporations are owned by people. Including many you would consider "workers." My retirement savings depends on the ability of "big corporations" to make profits. My job depends on the ability of big corporations to make profits. Our federal, state and local budgets depend on the ability of big corporations to make profits. Tell me again how profitable corporations are bad for "workers."
Unpacking this one issue at a time:
1. "It will hurt America workers" - if trading with people in other countries is bad for us ... then we are doomed because trade has happened and will happen whether or not this deal happens. 2. "make it harder for people in poor nations to buy generic drugs, lead to environmental degradation" (I am assuming that the environmental degradation fear is tied to the poor countries) - Shouldn't we leave it to the leaders of these other countries, most of them democratically elected, to decide whether free trade is good for them or not? We Americans can't come to consensus on those issues in THIS country. Now we are deciding what's good in other countries? 3. "provide outsized benefits to big corporations that will not necessarily be shared by workers." - Big corporations are owned by people. Including many you would consider "workers." My retirement savings depends on the ability of "big corporations" to make profits. My job depends on the ability of big corporations to make profits. Our federal, state and local budgets depend on the ability of big corporations to make profits. Tell me again how profitable corporations are bad for "workers."
2
I am rapidly coming to detest Obama. The Harper's magazine cover with the caption What Went Wrong? over his picture says it all. Here in Maine we have four legislators, and all voted against this -- an Independent, a moderate Republican, a rightwing Republican and a progressive Democrat. They had the sense, or the decency, to listen to their constituents. Obama has always been a "free" trader, and his arrogance will hurt all of us. That said, this should give Bernie Sanders' campaign a shot in the arm.
102
Agreed - the onus is now on President to Obama to forge a deal that is much better and fairer than earlier deals forAmerica's workers and environment.
1
President Obama could have gone a long way to garner public and political support if he'd only been as transparent about the principles he would seek to include in the Trans-pacific Partnership (T.P.P.) trade agreement as he was about those he was insisting on in the Iran nuclear deal. The fact that the deal was shrouded in mystery and outright secrecy only served to heighten the suspicions of progressives in his own party that the T.P.P., like all other previous trade deals, would once again involve trading away good American jobs for corporate profits abroad that requires so-called Trade Adjustment Assistance to compensate workers who will lose their jobs. This has not been a profile in good political leadership by the President of his own party and those who elected him twice.
9
How can one excoriate the president for being a sellout in the face of this trade agreement's passage, when he has always been the creature of the plutocrats? The 2008 bailout was his signal that despite his nominal difference as a "person of color" he was just as avid to defend the interests of capital as the most hardcore CEO to be found on any golf links. Neither black nor white, neither Christian nor Muslim, the chameleon executive turns the color of gold whenever he's put down on the political game board.
29
Congress has betrayed the American public by approving the trade authority given to the President. They have given away their own power to regulate trade. Why? Because they are paid off handsomely by the big corporations. The President is now free to determine the terms of these agreements, which are agreements made in secret, by heads of corporations to suit themselves. If these agreements are broken by any soveriegnty involved, the penalty is that the country must PAY the corporation for its losses. It's not too much different then what is already going on in other treaties. Individual states will not be allowed to label GMO's for instance. Corporations now officially run the world. These new treaties are the biggest power grab by international corporations than has ever taken place before in the history of the world. We will essentially have legal world wide fascism. Shame on congress and the president of the United States.
70
790 million people from 40 countries will be affected by this bill which only a privileged few (85% of which come from corporate America's "trade advisory committees") have been able to look at in total. The members of Congress who are voting on the bill have only seen sections of it in the basement of the Capitol (and then, they have not been allowed to even take notes.) It is as if the American public has just been raped and the perpetrators are allowed to high five one another. I am disgusted and I hope every other voter who finds this behavior appealing will join me and vote for Bernie Sanders for President.
137
Meant applying, definitely appealing...OOPS
Democracy requires informed voters. Voters cannot be informed when treaties are secret. Corporate elites are included in negotiations while human voters are excluded. Our form of government is oligarchy, not democracy.
We can work our behinds off to elect a Democratic president, but that makes no difference in an oligarchy where corporate elite control the government.
Bernie Sanders is running for president. Clearly we need him and Elizabeth Warren. We'll see about Hillary. And all you Democratic senators who send me emails asking for donations while you vote for fast-track, I will be hitting delete.
We can work our behinds off to elect a Democratic president, but that makes no difference in an oligarchy where corporate elite control the government.
Bernie Sanders is running for president. Clearly we need him and Elizabeth Warren. We'll see about Hillary. And all you Democratic senators who send me emails asking for donations while you vote for fast-track, I will be hitting delete.
64
Cannot support President Obama any more on any aspect of these trade bills. While speaking at Nike He stated laws would not change in America.Less than a week later Country of Origin Laws were knocked down by the WTO .Thank You Canada Mexico and the US.This will be just the beginning of the process America will be encountering in the very near future.I have lost all Trust and Respect for this Administration Policies.HOPE has not only gone out the window but left the building.Thanks President Obama.
29
Senators Warren and Sanders are correct on this.
Certainly, as emphasized by Obama, there are labor and environmental standards imposed (as called for in the editorial). The issue is that there are decades and decades of historical records that demonstrate these "negotiated" standards are too easily neglected. Vietnam is a notorious example for 40 years.
The point is that the more we are able to debate a trade agreement, the more likely we get negotiation that doesn't put US labor at an overly extreme disadvantage, superexploit foreign workers, and allow multinational financial and nonfinancial corporations to behave irresponsibly in pursuit of profits.
Certainly, as emphasized by Obama, there are labor and environmental standards imposed (as called for in the editorial). The issue is that there are decades and decades of historical records that demonstrate these "negotiated" standards are too easily neglected. Vietnam is a notorious example for 40 years.
The point is that the more we are able to debate a trade agreement, the more likely we get negotiation that doesn't put US labor at an overly extreme disadvantage, superexploit foreign workers, and allow multinational financial and nonfinancial corporations to behave irresponsibly in pursuit of profits.
13
The primary benefit of these trade deals will go to American corporations, mainly retailers and importers who will use their knowledge of American markets and brand names to source foreign-made products for resale in the US at magnified margins, and US manufacturers who will invest in low cost foreign manufacturing facilities to produce goods for resale back into America, again at magnified margins of course. The billions and billions of dollars that American corporations have locked offshore because of the arcane provisions of the US Tax code will finance all of this, while the US economy continues to underperform.
The assistance to American workers who are hurt by foreign trade is a nice gesture I guess, but presumably only those who actually lose jobs will benefit; the worker who spends his working life earning $15 per hour rather than $30 per hour because of foreign trade deals will get nothing from these programs.
And provisions for labor and environmental reforms and access to medicines and other things like that are all very nice too, but be clear that it is the American worker who pays the price for these deals; the foreign workers get jobs and improving working conditions and lifestyle, the American workers get higher unemployment, lower wages, fewer benefits.
By the time he leaves the White house, President Obama will have few friends left. The republicans never liked him, and now he has turned on the Democrats. Some legacy.
The assistance to American workers who are hurt by foreign trade is a nice gesture I guess, but presumably only those who actually lose jobs will benefit; the worker who spends his working life earning $15 per hour rather than $30 per hour because of foreign trade deals will get nothing from these programs.
And provisions for labor and environmental reforms and access to medicines and other things like that are all very nice too, but be clear that it is the American worker who pays the price for these deals; the foreign workers get jobs and improving working conditions and lifestyle, the American workers get higher unemployment, lower wages, fewer benefits.
By the time he leaves the White house, President Obama will have few friends left. The republicans never liked him, and now he has turned on the Democrats. Some legacy.
31
It is interesting to see that the same arguments are being held here, on this side of the pond in regard to labor rights and enviromental standards. Companies seem to rule over the United States as well as Europe.....who owns whom these days...??
19
The Des Moines Register this week printed an opinion piece written by President Obama proclaiming the virtues of this trade deal. I assume newspapers all over the country published it as well.
In the article Obama proclaimed over and over again that the trade deal already contained fantastic protections for the American people. If so, why can't we see it? If so, why does he need fast track authority?
The only thing Obama didn't say in his piece was that under the trade agreement, "If you like your job, you can keep your job?"
In the article Obama proclaimed over and over again that the trade deal already contained fantastic protections for the American people. If so, why can't we see it? If so, why does he need fast track authority?
The only thing Obama didn't say in his piece was that under the trade agreement, "If you like your job, you can keep your job?"
13
"....to reach deals with other nations that live up to the high standards on labor rights, environmental protection, access to medicines and other issues that Mr. Obama has said he supports."
Even if such point are written into trade agreements, other countries usually just ignore them with no penalty. Who is the sucker who follows these agreements to the letter? Us!
Even if such point are written into trade agreements, other countries usually just ignore them with no penalty. Who is the sucker who follows these agreements to the letter? Us!
18
Mufi-Nationals apparently will get direct access to tribunals to resolve issues of lost future profits. Labor unions and environmentalists have no direct access. They have to beg their governments to prosecute any claims.
The point of the treaty is to increase profits for the multinational corporations who wrote it and to effectively give them veto power over any state or natiional laws that they do not like. No one really thinks that the environmental and labor standards baked into the TPP are serious provisions. They are mere window dressing put in to mollify -- not empower -- unions and environmentalists.
The point of the treaty is to increase profits for the multinational corporations who wrote it and to effectively give them veto power over any state or natiional laws that they do not like. No one really thinks that the environmental and labor standards baked into the TPP are serious provisions. They are mere window dressing put in to mollify -- not empower -- unions and environmentalists.
17
Instead of getting a say in the president's ear, the labor unions and others are making President Obama in debt to the Republicans. While Mr Obama and subsequent presidents will use TPP to the best of America's advantage, this failure to support the passage because of the ghost that never was - NAFTA was not the reason for China becoming the outsourcing capital of the world - will not give the workers who had suffered from the past manufacturing exodus a slightest bit of advantage in the future.
People have to understand the globalization genie is out of the bottle, it will not go back. Instead, the labor unions and dissenting Democrats should have used TPP to advance some linkage protections (and even concessions). Too late, they pouted and now they don't get a thing
People have to understand the globalization genie is out of the bottle, it will not go back. Instead, the labor unions and dissenting Democrats should have used TPP to advance some linkage protections (and even concessions). Too late, they pouted and now they don't get a thing
4
That's right. The future is coming whether people like it or not. We can fight it and lose our place in the world or we can reluctantly embrace it and try to use it to our advantage. The "anti" movement needs to accept that the world is changing and it's not going to stop because they are unhappy about it.
Both parties have betrayed the American people. They have both chosen there corporate and wealthy individual donor base over the best interests of the people. They have chosen there own political careers and financial wealth over the best interest of the people.
Its time for a revolution. People who call themselves Republican, Democrat, or independent need to march in the streets and demand a new government.
Its time for a revolution. People who call themselves Republican, Democrat, or independent need to march in the streets and demand a new government.
186
If Bernie keeps moving up in the polls you may get your wish - together with an employment and economic future roughly equivalent to that of Greece.
1
casey - alternatively, let's all sign a petition on the White House website requiring a constitutional amendment allowing recall of our sell-out Congress-persons and Senators.
At this point, the pols only fear us during election years, doing whatever their donors want the rest of the time - their donors can finance their campaigns, but if the pols knew that every single vote they took could result in their recall (instead of Senators doing whatever they want for 5 years, then worrying about voters during election year) things would change in a hurry.
We should at least try it - what's to lose ?
At this point, the pols only fear us during election years, doing whatever their donors want the rest of the time - their donors can finance their campaigns, but if the pols knew that every single vote they took could result in their recall (instead of Senators doing whatever they want for 5 years, then worrying about voters during election year) things would change in a hurry.
We should at least try it - what's to lose ?
7
This bad deal destroys our nation's sovereignty...that alone should alarm americans. TPP gives multinationals legal power over our regional, state and our nation's laws. Plus it causes American taxpayers to be on the hook for millions/ billions if our laws get in the way of multinational profits. TPP destroys what's left of our middle class ... without a middle class you have no democracy ! it's a joke regarding the retraining .... for what jobs...burger flippers or a cashier's job at Walmart-Mart ? Most of the jobs in IT in America are being replaced with H-1B visas from India as well as other American jobs. So retraining is a cruel joke. Every trade deal has caused trade deficits and American job losses. The democrats who voted for TPP are traitors to the American people ! Bernie '16 !
163
Free trade has been pretty good to the workers at Boeing and all the people in Washington state who benefit from the spin off effect when Boeing is able to sell planes abroad. Are you prepared to see those jobs moved overseas? There is absolutely nothing preventing Boeing from doing that right now - even without this deal.
President Obama is now free to give negotiations his best shot - but he really shouldn't press to have this voted on while he is still in office.
Obama is now, politically speaking, a lame duck President - and this agreement, once finalized, deserves to be considered by the American people as part of a general election cycle.
We are still a democracy, not an oligarchy - at least for time being - and as President Obama knows better than anyone, a general election Congress tends to be more representative of the national mood than one selected during a low-turnout mid-term election.
These trade deals were nowhere on voter's political radar when we voted in 2012 or 2014. Consequently, the TPP, once completed, deserves to be vigorously debated by the whole of the American people, not just an increasingly bought-and-paid-for Congress. Congressional and Senatorial incumbents and challengers should be forced to either oppose or support this agreement while there is still an opportunity for the people to have their say.
If America is still a democracy, then we deserve this much.
Obama is now, politically speaking, a lame duck President - and this agreement, once finalized, deserves to be considered by the American people as part of a general election cycle.
We are still a democracy, not an oligarchy - at least for time being - and as President Obama knows better than anyone, a general election Congress tends to be more representative of the national mood than one selected during a low-turnout mid-term election.
These trade deals were nowhere on voter's political radar when we voted in 2012 or 2014. Consequently, the TPP, once completed, deserves to be vigorously debated by the whole of the American people, not just an increasingly bought-and-paid-for Congress. Congressional and Senatorial incumbents and challengers should be forced to either oppose or support this agreement while there is still an opportunity for the people to have their say.
If America is still a democracy, then we deserve this much.
85
Thanks. Intelligently and reasonably laid out. Persuasively made argument. I wish the majority of our politicians had the integrity and respect for our country and its working class to heed your advice.
1
Wrong, we are an oligarchy. There's no democracy when you turn your sovereignty over to corporations, they now, legally, rule the world.
1
Past trade deals have decimated manufacturing jobs in the united states and in fact have virtually eliminated some industries. Over 95% of our shoes are imports, clothing manufacturing jobs have disappeared and these are only the tip of the iceberg. Add to that, the lack of control over currency manipulation practiced by China most effectively and you can see where yet another trade deal will take us. Fewer jobs, lower salaries, lower standard of living, and less of a future for our kids. President Obama may think this is a good idea, just like Clinton and Bush did before him. It's not. So disappointing. Where does Hillary stand? Time to seriously consider Bernie Sanders. At least with him we know exactly where he stands.
247
Check the 1986 tax bill, sponsored by Sen Bradley and Rep Gephart to see how our industrial base was really decimated. They increased taxes on jobs-creating manufacturing investment by repealing Kennedy's 7% investment tax credit. They also repealed Regan's accelerated depression (ACRS) which increased the depreciation write-off from 8 years to an average 16 -- all our trade competitors were (and are) only 5 years. Our industrial base was dropped into the postwar years of 1945-1961, when we suffered five recessions in only 16 years, and fell from the only industrial bas still standing to what Kennedy's first SOTU described as "among the lowest in economic growth,"
3
Did your research, Mike !
Now if only half of our eligible voters crawled out of the apathy they are steeped in, and did the same, our Democracy might yet survive.
Now if only half of our eligible voters crawled out of the apathy they are steeped in, and did the same, our Democracy might yet survive.
4
Yes, Bernie Sanders is the man. He will carry Berkeley. And Jeb Bush will carry the rest of US. Bush Vs. Sanders will make Reagan V Mondale look like a close contest. Vote Sanders and give us eight more years of another Bush.
2
If it's so good, why is it secret? What's Obama & the GOP hiding? From what senators Sanders & Warren have revealed so far, this isn't a trade deal, it's a corporate bill of rights deal that supersedes our rights. We're screwed.
216
It's secret because we're the only country that requires legislative ratification of treaties. Everyone else at the table can speak for their country. Our President cannot. Without fast track we'd be forever the weakest at any table.
Then the secrecy comes in because -- it always does, like all those secret backroom deals to pass Obamacare.
Then the secrecy comes in because -- it always does, like all those secret backroom deals to pass Obamacare.
3
" we're the only country that requires legislative ratification of treaties"
Not true. The TTiP will need to be ratified by each of the EU member states.
Not true. The TTiP will need to be ratified by each of the EU member states.
10
O, and effective negotiator? Give me a break, O has never successfully negotiated anything, ever. In a few days we will clearly see that when the Iran deal is unveiled. Think back to the Bodalh swap, five for one, all done with dishonesty and untruthfulness. O wants 'legacy', what American will get is raw incompetence. .
10
You just know that these trade deals will give short shift to labor rights, enviromental protection and access to medicine in favor of profits for the corporations that now own our goverment.
150
These agreements go substantially beyond mere regulation of commerce between nations and are actually treaties between the USA and each of the other participants countries and should be subject to a 2/3 concurring vote of the Senate as authorized and mandated by the Constitution.
Once again the Constitution of the USA is being ignored.
Once again the Constitution of the USA is being ignored.
188
These treaties will still need to be voted on. This just closed debate on the floor to allow the deals to be constructed then head straight to a vote. No amendments.
1
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution grants Congress the power “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.”
Congress is delegating that power to the president to negotiate a deal. The president, in turn, doesn't wan't to negotiate with a foreign gov't (nor they with him) subject to a congress that can slice apart the deal.
The problem, is neither the congress nor the president are experts in these arcane matters - but they sure talk as if they are!
Because of our election laws, the president and congress are mere salesmen who market themselves to various stakeholders (we the unwitting taxpayers and voters are just one of many), but who then turnaround and subcontract for that expertise to the highest bidder in the form of political donations - AKA bribes, but which SCOTUS has legalized as speech.
In the world of SCOTUS, paying for the right to write the law is not quid pro quo bribery. SCOTUS believes the only outright bribe is a briefcase full of cash handed over to congressman while being taped. Purchasing the right to write the law (the rules) is a bit too far a field... because ... hey, that's what they do too!
The constitutional change you desire is to outlaw this political bribery system that gives clear language (like 3rd grade level), so SCOTUS has no wiggle room.
Until then, there is no constition. SCOTUS killed it.
Congress is delegating that power to the president to negotiate a deal. The president, in turn, doesn't wan't to negotiate with a foreign gov't (nor they with him) subject to a congress that can slice apart the deal.
The problem, is neither the congress nor the president are experts in these arcane matters - but they sure talk as if they are!
Because of our election laws, the president and congress are mere salesmen who market themselves to various stakeholders (we the unwitting taxpayers and voters are just one of many), but who then turnaround and subcontract for that expertise to the highest bidder in the form of political donations - AKA bribes, but which SCOTUS has legalized as speech.
In the world of SCOTUS, paying for the right to write the law is not quid pro quo bribery. SCOTUS believes the only outright bribe is a briefcase full of cash handed over to congressman while being taped. Purchasing the right to write the law (the rules) is a bit too far a field... because ... hey, that's what they do too!
The constitutional change you desire is to outlaw this political bribery system that gives clear language (like 3rd grade level), so SCOTUS has no wiggle room.
Until then, there is no constition. SCOTUS killed it.
3
On O can our Workers depend?
Of the Stick they get the short end,
The Corps and hedge funders
Benefit from blunders
Manufacturing jobs, descend.
Of the Stick they get the short end,
The Corps and hedge funders
Benefit from blunders
Manufacturing jobs, descend.
42
Larry,
On "O" you can depend!
And, Yes we'll get the "short end".
He will because he can!
Yet you'd vote for him again.
Of course the option is "worse".
It's the well known Liberal curse.
The present is bad enough.
Finding "worse" could be tough!
On "O" you can depend!
And, Yes we'll get the "short end".
He will because he can!
Yet you'd vote for him again.
Of course the option is "worse".
It's the well known Liberal curse.
The present is bad enough.
Finding "worse" could be tough!
7
Trade should not just be about economic growth, but about sustainable practices that protect the Earth's biosphere, to produce that growth.