I've employed women who seemed to be sorry that they even existed. We would waste so much time getting thru the sorry & apologies for every statement that sometimes it seemed that half the day was lost to "I'm sorry, but...." On the other hand, my father was a man who never, ever said "I'm sorry" or apologized about anything.... & it often exacerbated situations that were already difficult & a simple, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake" could have salvaged. Because of him, I consciously made a decision to promptly admit & apologize for my own mistakes.... "My fault entirely. I'm sorry. I'll try not to make the same mistake," can remedy a lot of situations headed downhill fast. On the other hand, if you apologize & are constantly sorry, it means nothing when you need to honestly be sorry & take the blame. What should be sincere & significant becomes banal & inconsequential
29
While I love Julia Child, I believe the exact quote was “No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize,” that is vastly different than "never apologize". Indeed, take this quote as a better lesson: "If it’s a good idea, go ahead and do it. It is much easier to apologize than it is to get permission." It is from Admiral Grace Hopper, a pioneer in the computer programming field (not just a pioneering woman, a pioneer, period) and an Admiral in the US Navy.
38
Three weeks ago, after suffering a bad rib injury as the result of being knocked into a granite counter by three large dogs (they were playing, and I got in the way), I awoke to find myself in excruciating pain. I could not get out of bed or lift my arms. Every time I tried to move, my muscles spasmed, and I screamed.
My husband called 911. The EMS technicians were excellent, but there was no avoiding the pain that occurred as they helped me dress, moved me into a transportation chair, and got me down the stairs and into an ambulance. Every time I moved, I spasmed. Whenever I spasmed, I yelled, because the pain was the worst I'd ever felt. (I've since learned that many people with serious rib injuries end up sedated, in the ICU, for a week or more.)
Every time I yelled, I apologized. It was sort of like --- "Owww yoww ohhh -- I'm sorry." I was embarrassed at being unable to control my response and because I was demanding attention. Apparently, part of me felt that I should have passed out cold, rather than disturb the EMS technicians by screaming in pain.
I learned another lesson via this experience: take the meds. On the previous day, when my ribs had been x-rayed, I'd refused opiates and a muscle relaxant, on the theory that to do so would be "weak." I got this from my mother who, the day after getting home from the hospital after major surgery, sat on a chair and washed the kitchen floor.
Why are we like this? We should stop.
My husband called 911. The EMS technicians were excellent, but there was no avoiding the pain that occurred as they helped me dress, moved me into a transportation chair, and got me down the stairs and into an ambulance. Every time I moved, I spasmed. Whenever I spasmed, I yelled, because the pain was the worst I'd ever felt. (I've since learned that many people with serious rib injuries end up sedated, in the ICU, for a week or more.)
Every time I yelled, I apologized. It was sort of like --- "Owww yoww ohhh -- I'm sorry." I was embarrassed at being unable to control my response and because I was demanding attention. Apparently, part of me felt that I should have passed out cold, rather than disturb the EMS technicians by screaming in pain.
I learned another lesson via this experience: take the meds. On the previous day, when my ribs had been x-rayed, I'd refused opiates and a muscle relaxant, on the theory that to do so would be "weak." I got this from my mother who, the day after getting home from the hospital after major surgery, sat on a chair and washed the kitchen floor.
Why are we like this? We should stop.
58
As a trial lawyer I have had some success getting through to a particularly "dense" jurist, by saying (instead of "pay attention you fool") "I apologize your Honor for my failure to make myself understood. Please let me try to say this another way." The apology opens many doors and minds. Try it. You'll like it.
39
Some years ago I realized that whenever someone was walking toward me, I got out of their way--probably all my life. I stopped doing it and it has worked well except with young children and teenagers, who literally don't notice that anyone is there and keep walking straight toward you.
25
And other people don't say sorry enough. I've known people who never apologize; that is NOT a virtue.
59
Not all men are like Mick Jagger, singing "Stupid Girl". We may not all be as good and pure asKeith Richards , either, but we take our cues as boys, most of us, from our mothers and other women and girls in our lives. Women are expected to be nicer than men(by men), and are expected to take some abuse with better grace because they are smaller, weaker, more attractive, smarter and better than we men are.Otherwise it ceases to pay to hold doors open for women, and to carry their heavy packages and bags.
If women wish to be on the receiving end of decent behavior they need to show (us men) that they deserve it because they are decent and kind themselves.
There is a reason men often call their pair bonded spouse,(usually a woman), my better half. Please, let's keep it that way.
If women wish to be on the receiving end of decent behavior they need to show (us men) that they deserve it because they are decent and kind themselves.
There is a reason men often call their pair bonded spouse,(usually a woman), my better half. Please, let's keep it that way.
6
Just wanted to point out that you started your comment with "not all men". I can see kind of what you are saying but it seems to me you are trying to disguise the misogyny in your statement by saying that women are better and more attractive. Why do women have to be better? Are men really so rude that holding the door open for a woman needs to result in payment? I think it is preposterous that for women to receive "decent" behavior they have to be models of courtesy. We are all people, let's just be polite without requiring anything in return.
42
Too often "I'm sorry" is uttered when "Excuse me" would be more appropriate. You don't need to be sorry if I am in your way; politely say "excuse me" and proceed by me. If you step on my toe in the process then say "I'm sorry".
21
I always interpreted it to be shorthand for "I'm sorry I have to inform you that you are being such a jerk, but..."
21
Some people, both males and females are unduly meek. Others know how to lubricate social interactions.
If women say "Sorry" more than men, who is to say that women are the ones saying it too much?
Maybe it's men who are saying it too little.
If women say "Sorry" more than men, who is to say that women are the ones saying it too much?
Maybe it's men who are saying it too little.
48
Let's back up.
If you screw up, apologize. If you didn't, don't.
And you can be simultaneously polite and assertive. There's lots of room between cowering victim and raging bully. It's called being cool.
Although some fetishizes swagger, its appeal is vastly overrated. Mitt Romney made "No Apologies" his mantra but he lost decisively to the low key, even tempered guy.
If you screw up, apologize. If you didn't, don't.
And you can be simultaneously polite and assertive. There's lots of room between cowering victim and raging bully. It's called being cool.
Although some fetishizes swagger, its appeal is vastly overrated. Mitt Romney made "No Apologies" his mantra but he lost decisively to the low key, even tempered guy.
21
Another of women's mannerisms showing weakness or no-confidence is our tipped heads when we talk or have our pictures taken. Why can't women be as confident as men and show it?
6
So in addition to not being able to negotiate and speak up in meetings, women say sorry too much. What's next?
9
People don't RSVP anymore or write thank you notes or eat family meals together or respond to CVs or thank people for interviewing or cook or have non-virtual relationships or not answer the phone when they are in company...
Do we just add apologies to the list? saying "sorry" to the bus boy is normal. he didn't put the bacon on your food. jeeez. Glad I don't live in the US where this onslaught of so-called radical feminism is turning women into defensive whiners.
Do we just add apologies to the list? saying "sorry" to the bus boy is normal. he didn't put the bacon on your food. jeeez. Glad I don't live in the US where this onslaught of so-called radical feminism is turning women into defensive whiners.
14
Just did a quick check of email exchanges from the past several days. Five instances of sorry -- one each from myself and two other women, one each from three men. Good group of colleagues?
6
I can't speak to the experience of other women, but in my own life, I was raised that it is impolite to ever "inconvenience" anybody; thus I apologize profusely. Years ago, a friend tried curing me of this habit by answering my every "I'm sorry" with "How is this your fault?" Surprisingly, I always seemed to find a way that my needs were inconveniencing others. Finally, when I apologized for the rain, my friend thought she had me. How could I be responsible for the weather? Right then I even astonished myself, for my first thought was, "If I hadn't asked you to go out with me, you wouldn't be getting rained on right now."
Women are raised that we should never have any needs, and certainly not at the expense of other people. While my story is embarrassing to me, I'm sharing it because ever since then, I've noticed many, many women who have indeed apologized for the weather.
Women are raised that we should never have any needs, and certainly not at the expense of other people. While my story is embarrassing to me, I'm sharing it because ever since then, I've noticed many, many women who have indeed apologized for the weather.
38
Ladies:
If you really can't cease the "sorry" tic, try something that's more properly passive-aggressive: "Bless your heart!"
"Bless your heart, may I have another spoon?"
"Bless your heart, you didn't MEAN to step on my toe there, did you?"
"Bless your heart, young man, would you say that to your mother?"
Try it. You'll like it.
If you really can't cease the "sorry" tic, try something that's more properly passive-aggressive: "Bless your heart!"
"Bless your heart, may I have another spoon?"
"Bless your heart, you didn't MEAN to step on my toe there, did you?"
"Bless your heart, young man, would you say that to your mother?"
Try it. You'll like it.
17
I'm sorry, but Sloane is wrong here, as many commentators have pointed out. There's nothing wrong with being at least a little over polite, and as a British transplant to Houston I've found over the last 25 years that saying "sorry", "please" and "thank you" more often than needed has been far more successful than any number of hissy fits or other expressions of frustrations would have been. And, anyway, i'd be rubbish at those.
30
Sloane, you wouldn't like to live in Greece where everybody bumps on you, rubs shoulders with you, steps on your heels and goes his or her way. Once in a moon time you may hear a sorry - they say sorry with strong "r", nobody uses the Greek word. But in tight spaces you may feel a whole body rubbing against you as someone squeezes by as if he or she were in his kitchen with his wife! There is no sorry then.
10
Like any phrase in the English language, 'I'm sorry' can convey lots of different meanings depending on the tone and contextual nuances. I'm male and I say 'sorry' all the time. Sometimes I am genuinely sorry for something I said or did; other times I am just prefacing a request or comment to make it non-confrontational. I have no problem with apologies, even when I am not trying to admit wrong-doing.
With this in mind, I do find that women often say 'sorry' in ways that suggest a genuine apology when none is needed or required. Even among my staff of women scientists, the newer ones often seem genuinely apologetic when they point out evidence that contradicts the prevailing conclusions we have drawn. The more seasoned among my scientific staff know that I actively seek these kinds of comments, and I always try to emphasize that no apology is needed or even desired when asking questions or offering a different analysis on a given topic. I also find that setting this example makes my women scientists less likely to apologize in social situations at work, and far less likely to defer to their male counterparts. I'm always glad to see this when it happens!
With this in mind, I do find that women often say 'sorry' in ways that suggest a genuine apology when none is needed or required. Even among my staff of women scientists, the newer ones often seem genuinely apologetic when they point out evidence that contradicts the prevailing conclusions we have drawn. The more seasoned among my scientific staff know that I actively seek these kinds of comments, and I always try to emphasize that no apology is needed or even desired when asking questions or offering a different analysis on a given topic. I also find that setting this example makes my women scientists less likely to apologize in social situations at work, and far less likely to defer to their male counterparts. I'm always glad to see this when it happens!
18
Funny how it seems like the author and some commentators dislike the unapologetic ways of men and proceed to... recommend doing just that.
I am a man and, like many others pointed out, I use apologies all the time as a social lubricant in order to calmer, more rational discussion in potentially tense situations.
Sorry.
I am a man and, like many others pointed out, I use apologies all the time as a social lubricant in order to calmer, more rational discussion in potentially tense situations.
Sorry.
37
I'm one of the few males out there that uses sorry too much, it's definitely why I'm currently stuck in beta-male as opposed to "alpha male" status. I think it's all nonsense but American culture has never been about manners and niceties; it's all about the primacy of the individual. Me first baby and then maybe I might think of you.
Still, I'm going to make an effort to cut down on the "sorrys" it's time for me to play this stupid game of life a lot smarter!
But maybe there's an alternative we can figure out, it's a bit long-winded but maybe something like "hate to be a nuisance but. . . " might work better than a grovelly "I'm sorry but. . ."
Still, I'm going to make an effort to cut down on the "sorrys" it's time for me to play this stupid game of life a lot smarter!
But maybe there's an alternative we can figure out, it's a bit long-winded but maybe something like "hate to be a nuisance but. . . " might work better than a grovelly "I'm sorry but. . ."
17
I will not apologize for saying sorry or for being the way I am. I am not the problem with women's status in society and I will not take the blame. Sorry.
21
A Trojan horse leads to passive aggressive behavior. I deal with it every day because I tend to speak my mind and then worry about what others think of me afterward. I get on my nerves with the worrying and feel resentful that I "need to worry". Thanks for this, it's an on-going reality for us women, just one of millions of others we face every minute of our lives.
2
Do you seriously believe that it's only women who worry that having spoken their mind others might think badly of them? The world is as tough a place for men as for women these days, and a lot less tough here in the USA than in many other places.
7
Another annoying misuse of "sorry" - one that doesn't always come off well in writing, is the "sorry" of self-righteous incomprehension. That's "I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that sort of person," but instead of expressing regret for a defect, it is said defiantly, as if putting oneself in the shoes of "those people" were to compromise oneself, as if empathy were a vice and willful ignorance a virtue.
The "I'm sorry" in this fake apology means, "I'm sorry I cannot humor you by stepping outside my own perspective - I have too much integrity!"
The "I'm sorry" in this fake apology means, "I'm sorry I cannot humor you by stepping outside my own perspective - I have too much integrity!"
9
I think Homer Simpson would say, "Saying you're sorry is the first step towards ridicule."
7
Sorry is the first thing I say right before I get what I WANT.
8
I think women should be proud of their apologetic character and I disagree with the theme of this article. Why do women seem to insist on using the male paradigm of behavior as the standard of what is right. Women should be proud of who they are. It is the men who are the egotistical boors, the John Wayne and sports star emulators who our society has elevated into the iconic figure type as a standard for society in general.
Women, in my humble opinion (see, I am a guy apologizing), are by nature optimistic and caring. These virtues lead women to modestly present themselves in ways that would least interfere with exuding that optimism and caring nature. Rather than being confrontational, wherein the battle lines are drawn, a woman would rather de-escalate confrontation situations in order to preserve a presence and mood of peace, harmony, "optimism" and "caring."
So, the apology is not something to be ashamed of. Women are healers. Interpersonal interactions are places of connecting in a positive spirit. The apology is intended to defuse aggravation, confrontation, and anger. Our society, our world, would be better off with less John Wayne machismo and more friendly and humble interacting between all peoples. Less war and more peace, even if it takes an apology to achieve it.
Women, in my humble opinion (see, I am a guy apologizing), are by nature optimistic and caring. These virtues lead women to modestly present themselves in ways that would least interfere with exuding that optimism and caring nature. Rather than being confrontational, wherein the battle lines are drawn, a woman would rather de-escalate confrontation situations in order to preserve a presence and mood of peace, harmony, "optimism" and "caring."
So, the apology is not something to be ashamed of. Women are healers. Interpersonal interactions are places of connecting in a positive spirit. The apology is intended to defuse aggravation, confrontation, and anger. Our society, our world, would be better off with less John Wayne machismo and more friendly and humble interacting between all peoples. Less war and more peace, even if it takes an apology to achieve it.
12
Hank, you need to get out more or come into Manhattan and go to any large supermarket, like a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods. Your entire interpretation of things will change. The supermarket, for whatever reason, is where women become their most primitive self, and for the better part, lack any sophistication or ability to process whatsoever. I don't get it and virtually anyone who reads this comment will agree, whether they will admit it or not. I don't know if they are overwhelmed. I just don't know. But this is by far, one of the greatest questions in life I've had and always dreamt doing a study of genders in the supermarket and why people act the way they do. I've seen the bad side of women and nothing compares to how they act when in a supermarket. Nothing.
1
This article is completely silly. People need to say "I'm sorry" more, NOT less. Saying "I'm sorry" does not mean you're sorry or even feel guilty. It's simply an acknowledgement of another human being's feeling and situation. Think of these dichotomies: what's better?
- I'm sorry, what's your name vs. What's your name?
- I'm sorry, could you please sit down? vs Could you please sit down?
- I'm sorry, how much is it? vs How much is it?
So, I'm sorry, let's not make everything a gender issue.
- I'm sorry, what's your name vs. What's your name?
- I'm sorry, could you please sit down? vs Could you please sit down?
- I'm sorry, how much is it? vs How much is it?
So, I'm sorry, let's not make everything a gender issue.
16
Absolutely. Should have just recommended this rather than writing my own, less eloquent opinion!
1
I get it. I do. But do we really need one more way to judge women? First it was vocal fry, and now this. I think I'm developing an eye twitch. Leave women alone.
9
As a man who vends words for money, I've long thought the overuse of 'sorry' is a unconscious commentary on the sorry state of our sorry state. You see, I live in a nation so afflicted with sorry syndrome that I have taken to replying to it with responses ranging from "Don't be" to "Why? What have you done?" to "Well, you ought to be" to "Are you really, though?" depending on the likelihood of getting a slap. Out of Canadian politeness, I reserve my archest "sorry" snark solely for close friends and telemarketers.
I'd say that in my town, women, men, children (and some pets) all abuse 'sorry' equally -- maybe, because we believe in equal rights up here. For example, here when you say "Excuse me" in order to squeeze past a male or female in a crowd, they ALWAYS reply with "Sorry!!!", as though forgetting they had no right to exist at those coordinates at that time. Just once, could someone not reply with "Of course", or "Just did" or "Give me an hour to think about it"?
Politeness is indeed preferable to rudeness, but how about we just compromise at only saying sorry when we've said or done something exceedingly wrong?
For as we continue down the sorry path, the long-term implications are grim: I imagine a cacophony of people saying, "No, I'M sorry" back and forth until they all collapse from malnutrition.
Sorry for the rant. I didn't get enough sleep last night, as I was delivering a long apology to my wife for being such a lousy husband. And I meant every word.
I'd say that in my town, women, men, children (and some pets) all abuse 'sorry' equally -- maybe, because we believe in equal rights up here. For example, here when you say "Excuse me" in order to squeeze past a male or female in a crowd, they ALWAYS reply with "Sorry!!!", as though forgetting they had no right to exist at those coordinates at that time. Just once, could someone not reply with "Of course", or "Just did" or "Give me an hour to think about it"?
Politeness is indeed preferable to rudeness, but how about we just compromise at only saying sorry when we've said or done something exceedingly wrong?
For as we continue down the sorry path, the long-term implications are grim: I imagine a cacophony of people saying, "No, I'M sorry" back and forth until they all collapse from malnutrition.
Sorry for the rant. I didn't get enough sleep last night, as I was delivering a long apology to my wife for being such a lousy husband. And I meant every word.
10
Women should feel comfortable apologizing when appropriate. The push by feminists to turn women into guttersnipes and scowls will fail. Feminists are at war with nature, and the sooner feminism is thrown in the rubbish bin the better and happier we all will be.
1
Just like the Pantene Ad, which I personally find insulting, this piece tells women, once again, what we are supposed to do to please other people. It is no different than the societal request that women be apologetic! Stop telling women (and girls) how to think, how to feel, how to act all the time (especially when you are just trying to sell us shampoo which is predicated on us trying to appear a particular way for everyone else) and just tell humanity, stop expecting women to act, appear, be, speak, etc. like you expect them to; the onus should not be on women to change, the problem is the expectation not the action. A well placed sorry is hardly always a bad thing, and saying you're sorry for something in order to seem polite is not generally a good thing, but the demand for women to do this thing, speak this way, act like this, be like men or whatever the writer thinks the goal is, is not a good means to change this societal expectation.
9
Frequency of apologies is a proxy for a real problem, that women don't demand and aren't offered ownership over their space and their needs. It is a decidedly mediocre proxy. An apology can accompany submission, but it can also be a show of power, a way to assert control, or a common courtesy. The fact that women apologize more than men should not be seen as evidence that those apologies are problematic. A real solution understands and addresses the underlying problem. Exhorting women to apologize less frequently is a band-aid solution that only addresses a symptom.
9
Interesting article timing. This weekend I was standing outside a yoga classroom and a man came over and asked if I could move to the right so he could get his shoes. I said "I'm sorry" and moved. He looks me in the eye and says "don't apologize, how could you have known?". I said nothing but thought about it for a long time afterwards how easily I over apologize.
18
I've never had a problem with the whole "I'm sorry" thing, but it's not because of the reasons in this article. Functionally, "I'm sorry" is "excuse me." I think that the overall goal is politeness, not feeling apologetic about something. It's a formality. Maybe not the best one (since "I'm sorry" connotes apology, apparently), but most intelligent people know the difference anyway.
Also, just because you're polite doesn't mean you're a pushover or "accepting a second-class status." I think that's a line each individual has to negotiate, and figuring out that balance is a personal preference. People shouldn't have to say "I'm sorry" for saying "I'm sorry"...
Also, just because you're polite doesn't mean you're a pushover or "accepting a second-class status." I think that's a line each individual has to negotiate, and figuring out that balance is a personal preference. People shouldn't have to say "I'm sorry" for saying "I'm sorry"...
15
Julia Child said "don't apologize" in a specific context: serving a dish that didn't go as well as you'd hoped. That makes sense, because an apology would draw attention to the cook's mistake. She didn't say "don't apologize" as a general rule.
11
Saying sorry because of sexism is oppression. In the hierarchy of American society, men have higher rank as do white folk, more affluent, heterosexual, able bodied, native born etc. The higher the rank, the more space one is allowed to take up. The white, owning class, heterosexual male takes up the most. Look at Wall Street if you need examples. When a man of color of the same class as a white woman conflict, it gets interesting. Men of color usually take up less space than the white guys.
I sometimes apologize to guys at work. I often get the impression from the listener of confusion or shock that I would do that.
I sometimes apologize to guys at work. I often get the impression from the listener of confusion or shock that I would do that.
4
I have never said "I am sorry" unless I am late or bump into people and never put myself in position to say so. Apologies do not work for me as I expect more from people and if they do something evil or cruel, I am through with them forever.
1
Ms Crosley's essay is so true. Long after this propensity had been noticed and critiqued (by the women's liberation movement circa 1970s), it remains prevalent among us. Change is hard!
And - sorry, but I'd like to point out its opposite number, which is overperformed by men and women alike - the omission of 'sorry' in casual encounters when it really is called for, particularly commercial encounters. An error in one's order is not met with an apology from the server. A lengthy wait in a medical office or hospital, the same. Etcetera.
And - sorry, but I'd like to point out its opposite number, which is overperformed by men and women alike - the omission of 'sorry' in casual encounters when it really is called for, particularly commercial encounters. An error in one's order is not met with an apology from the server. A lengthy wait in a medical office or hospital, the same. Etcetera.
5
Boring topic. Sorry, that's just how I see it. And to those who are offended I say, "Sorry, I misspoke." BTW, people who rarely apologize are more problematic, like a blister on my foot, not life-threatening, but very irritating.
5
Maybe a good start would be for women to stop ignoring the rules of driving by waving on at intersections other cars, who do not have a right-of-way. They could follow up by take the big leap; learning to initiate a turn signal BEFORE they begin to turn at an intersection, preferably well before the turn itself. (Thinking of it as a "before you turn" signal may help.) This is generically called, "following the rules of the road," and would be a great place for women to begin to stop interjecting inappropriate politeness where it does not belong and is not appreciated.
Once one trains oneself to be accustomed to the fact that movement at intersections is controlled by rules, and that a car approaching with a turn signal on is demonstrating an intent (rather than just having it on for fun,) smoother movement for themselves through traffic should become the norm, and accidents due to make-it-up-as-you-go driving techniques lessen. Good luck.
Once one trains oneself to be accustomed to the fact that movement at intersections is controlled by rules, and that a car approaching with a turn signal on is demonstrating an intent (rather than just having it on for fun,) smoother movement for themselves through traffic should become the norm, and accidents due to make-it-up-as-you-go driving techniques lessen. Good luck.
1
Women are prone to instinctive postures of apology because they know, at varying levels of awareness, that everything about them.. from cosmetics to high heels, to spandex, to hair color, to eyelashes, to cries of unequal pay for similar work, to laments of being treated as sex objects, to accusations of hostile work environments, to knowing what is in the best interests of children, to how child-support payments are spent, to the value of the awards and soft academic degrees they give each other.. is a fraud and a lie.
2
When I apologized in the delivery room after my water broke, I realized that I needed to break the habit. I still say sorry if I actually regret something but I'm trying to make it less reflexive. It's hard to undo.
11
No , this is wrong. Men should be saying sorry more often. Why would you want to copy male behaviour, how anti feminist is that?
8
I'm sorry...that every single thing these days would only be better for salad eating, getting raises, or room on the subway, if not for "women - stop being victim".
"I'm sorry...(but)"...Is generally simply a way to sound less rude, in beginning whatever point you are making. Must a situation born of rudeness, or other inappropriateness, be responded to with the same, without fail, without introducing one's self with civility into an interaction?
I'm really sorry...but if you want the world to be a better place, for the good of society, leadership, the marketplace, et al., wouldn't it be best, if, in correcting any imbalances - if they can, or should, actually be corrected - that we encourage the more perceived "female" qualities, etc., meaning more civil behavior by men, not less civil behavior by women.
Men are more often jerks. But it can, arguably, get better immediate results. We used to reward attempts at civility, at least on the surface. So now we've come all the way to we want to actively discourage it, and reward lack of it. So, women, be more like men. Don't even try to establish a civil environment for stating your case, whatever that may be.
All the talk about raising more respectful young men, to overcome the bad influences society has put forth...but lets raise more disrespectful women. Are we to catch women up to a happy medium?. Will that generally help women in particular, or the world as a whole? It won't...not sorry to say.
"I'm sorry...(but)"...Is generally simply a way to sound less rude, in beginning whatever point you are making. Must a situation born of rudeness, or other inappropriateness, be responded to with the same, without fail, without introducing one's self with civility into an interaction?
I'm really sorry...but if you want the world to be a better place, for the good of society, leadership, the marketplace, et al., wouldn't it be best, if, in correcting any imbalances - if they can, or should, actually be corrected - that we encourage the more perceived "female" qualities, etc., meaning more civil behavior by men, not less civil behavior by women.
Men are more often jerks. But it can, arguably, get better immediate results. We used to reward attempts at civility, at least on the surface. So now we've come all the way to we want to actively discourage it, and reward lack of it. So, women, be more like men. Don't even try to establish a civil environment for stating your case, whatever that may be.
All the talk about raising more respectful young men, to overcome the bad influences society has put forth...but lets raise more disrespectful women. Are we to catch women up to a happy medium?. Will that generally help women in particular, or the world as a whole? It won't...not sorry to say.
4
People often say "sorry" when they really mean "excuse me." The difference is important. "Sorry" means you regret what you did and wouldn't do it again if given the chance. So when someone says "sorry" and then does the behavior he or she just apologized for, it makes the word meaningless. "Excuse me" is what you should say BEFORE you are going to do something that might seem rude otherwise (like pushing past someone).
5
Once while traveling by myself in San Francisco a man followed me from the bus into a museum. Once inside he attempted to grab my hand. I pulled my hand away and said, "I'm Sorry. Don't touch me. I'm sorry." And I ran away. When I thought about the event later in the day I was not sure what upset me the most, the man who thought he could touch me without my permission, or my apology to him.
15
I am fascinated by the comments below that suggest that the constant use of "I'm sorry" is simply politeness. If this is the case, why isn't the column about how men are impolite? As a woman leader I make an effort to only apologize when I might be perceived as rude ("I am sorry to interrupt but I need to discuss something right now") or when I kick someone by accident. When approaching the desk of a colleague I like to open with, "Hello! Do you have a moment?" Feels much better than sorry to me.
13
I don't feel the need to apologize just to request something that is my perfect right, like being served edible food in the restaurant. Or to state an opinion. Or ask for some service at a store, etc. Subservience in everyday encounters can only create more of the same. "Polite" (i.e., being respectful) is different than being subservient. Learn the difference. Use words correctly. If I'm breaking into a conversation to ask the clerk for something, I don't say "Excuse me." I say "Hello," that good all-purpose word. Seems to work.
4
I've taken to saying "Unfortunately" instead of "I'm sorry" in many instances. "Unfortunately, the product arrived damaged. Can you please replace it?" "Unfortunately, this meat is a little undercooked for me. Can you please give it a few more minutes?" "Unfortunately, I can't do that favor for you. But don't hesitate to ask again." I feel it's a good sub for "I'm sorry" in that it states that there's a problem, but doesn't directly blame or accuse the other--an implication which, I think, is usually what the "I'm sorry" is meant to defuse.
12
The phrase ''I'm sorry" is open for interpretation depending on the context that it is used and the humans involved.
I speak from the office view point.
Words are tools - the meaning of the phrase "I sorry" is subjective. The words "I'm sorry' can change with the slight tone of voice or look of the face.
The STRENGTH of the word comes from the user not the ACT of saying "I'm sorry". When one has to apologize to gain imagined 'strength' over others then the behavior is pure passive aggressive.
Keep it up girls - thinking your strong by acting weak and we'll become 'big girls' one day....and we wonder why the GLASS ceiling still exists.
Women perpetuate this situation, women must end it.
I speak from the office view point.
Words are tools - the meaning of the phrase "I sorry" is subjective. The words "I'm sorry' can change with the slight tone of voice or look of the face.
The STRENGTH of the word comes from the user not the ACT of saying "I'm sorry". When one has to apologize to gain imagined 'strength' over others then the behavior is pure passive aggressive.
Keep it up girls - thinking your strong by acting weak and we'll become 'big girls' one day....and we wonder why the GLASS ceiling still exists.
Women perpetuate this situation, women must end it.
The apology by a woman for something that is clearly not requiring an apology can be potentially provocativly sexy, almost an invitation to say hello, for a man, the right man who is just waiting to satisfy an introductory request in a gallant manner. "You need not apologize my most lovely woman and here is what you need and can I be of any further assistance, please allow me, my name is Michael, should you need anything further." Women have their own subltle methods of flirtation and this is just one small arrow in their quiver.
1
What I've noticed about these insidious "sorrys," whether employed by women or men, is that they're usually completely disingenuous. I feel similarly about the way people use the phrase "Thank you SO much" these days - it's usually uttered with a lilting inflection that indicates a hugely false level of gratitude for the typically trivial circumstances. Are people really apologizing, or is this just some bizarre tick of our socially paranoid, eerily conformist age?
3
I've noticed this female problem for some years. It's gotten to the point that I'm about to--as I've announced to horrified friends and relatives, the next woman who apologizes when I accidentally (but carelessly) almost knock her down in a grocery aisle--slap her silly till she stops apologizing.
Amenities are way overused and are now more as a license to do nasty things than to be genuinely polite. My favorite is the angry storeowner yelling "have a nice day" as he throws me out.
Amenities are way overused and are now more as a license to do nasty things than to be genuinely polite. My favorite is the angry storeowner yelling "have a nice day" as he throws me out.
2
No offense, Sloane but you sound like a bit of a diva. I doubt if being excessively polite or deferential is as much of a problem for you as you seem to think.
As to your larger point, men and women where I grew up (at the place where the South meets the Midwest) are much more gracious and inclined to defuse potentially awkward, if unimportant, social situations by saying 'I'm sorry' than people on the East Coast. Guess what? It doesn't make them weaker when it really counts. It makes East Coasters more rude, when it accomplishes nothing.
I'd suggest you are exactly wrong. You should be advocating for men to say 'I'm sorry' more, rather than rallying women to say 'I'm sorry' less. Being the better gender is not an "affliction." But trying to mimic the rudeness of men is an affectation. And the gradual coarsening of the world doesn't somehow improve it for women.
Sorry if that offends you.
As to your larger point, men and women where I grew up (at the place where the South meets the Midwest) are much more gracious and inclined to defuse potentially awkward, if unimportant, social situations by saying 'I'm sorry' than people on the East Coast. Guess what? It doesn't make them weaker when it really counts. It makes East Coasters more rude, when it accomplishes nothing.
I'd suggest you are exactly wrong. You should be advocating for men to say 'I'm sorry' more, rather than rallying women to say 'I'm sorry' less. Being the better gender is not an "affliction." But trying to mimic the rudeness of men is an affectation. And the gradual coarsening of the world doesn't somehow improve it for women.
Sorry if that offends you.
14
'...As to your larger point, men and women where I grew up (at the place where the South meets the Midwest) are much more gracious and inclined to defuse potentially awkward, if unimportant, social situations by saying 'I'm sorry' than people on the East Coast...It makes East Coasters more rude, when it accomplishes nothing...'
Midwesterners and Southerners are not more polite than people on the East Coast, they just hide their rudeness under passive aggressive phoniness and hypocrisy, which ultimately causes more harm.
And I am not at all sorry if that offends you.
Midwesterners and Southerners are not more polite than people on the East Coast, they just hide their rudeness under passive aggressive phoniness and hypocrisy, which ultimately causes more harm.
And I am not at all sorry if that offends you.
2
"Graphics depict men displaying almost all these behaviors, except, perhaps in an effort to provide gender balance, the one that advises women to avoid elbows-out personal grooming...The scenario seems ridiculously unrealistic — and not just because it’s the only one I’ve never witnessed firsthand."
Perhaps it is an effort to provide "gender balance," although that points to the notion that the MT Authority generally views us men as far more problematic from a consideration and social responsibility point of view. This author's response is, "stop being so polite?" Huh? Like if women just dirt it down more, the equality we achieve will be somehow more desirable?
As to women applying makeup on the trains? I'm simply guessing this writer, as a writer, isn't subjected to the daily morning grinds on the subway that some of us wage-slaves endure. Not only have I witnessed this behavior *many* times on the subways, but I've seen the *same* offenders doing it on the *same* trains. And I find it as rude and offensive as clipping one's nails, or picking one's nose, or, my recent favorite, chomping on chicken, sucking off the bones, throwing them on the floor, and then licking one's fingers - which I watched an older woman do.
I don't presume to believe my anecdotes add up to an accurate generalization; but when it comes to rude behavior and its inequities, on the NYC subway and in NYC, anyone - no matter the sex, age, race, color of skin - is an equal opportunity offender.
Perhaps it is an effort to provide "gender balance," although that points to the notion that the MT Authority generally views us men as far more problematic from a consideration and social responsibility point of view. This author's response is, "stop being so polite?" Huh? Like if women just dirt it down more, the equality we achieve will be somehow more desirable?
As to women applying makeup on the trains? I'm simply guessing this writer, as a writer, isn't subjected to the daily morning grinds on the subway that some of us wage-slaves endure. Not only have I witnessed this behavior *many* times on the subways, but I've seen the *same* offenders doing it on the *same* trains. And I find it as rude and offensive as clipping one's nails, or picking one's nose, or, my recent favorite, chomping on chicken, sucking off the bones, throwing them on the floor, and then licking one's fingers - which I watched an older woman do.
I don't presume to believe my anecdotes add up to an accurate generalization; but when it comes to rude behavior and its inequities, on the NYC subway and in NYC, anyone - no matter the sex, age, race, color of skin - is an equal opportunity offender.
7
Is a male going to write an article about males saying "My Bad"?
15
How about females saying "My bad"?
1
"I'm sorry" is not used just for offering apologies. It is the language of politesse, of courteous business practices and civility in general. These small courtesies can smooth the way in negotiations--one can make their point without giving offense. "I'm sorry, I have a different point of view, may I explain it to you?" is far more effective, for both sexes, than, "You are wrong. Here's how it is."
I would agree that saying "I'm sorry" for every little thing, for example, your restaurant preference, choice of nail polish color or god forbid, dropping a pencil at the office, goes a bit beyond the pale, but would still err on the side of politesse if I had to choose.
Something not pointed out in this piece, and, as aggravating as it may be to women in the 21st century, women, in general, and in the workplace, need to phrase things they want in polite language if they want to get their way.
It's not really about men not liking women bosses, either. It's about the higher pitch of a woman's voice. The higher pitch makes any demand or assertion sound, to both men and women, more irritating. (A baby's cry, with its even higher pitch, can be really irritating--even if necessary)
So, to combat the effects of sheer biology, women have learned to take the polite, and softer approach, at least many of them. But all people would be advised to use this approach in all things, especially if they want to be heard.
I would agree that saying "I'm sorry" for every little thing, for example, your restaurant preference, choice of nail polish color or god forbid, dropping a pencil at the office, goes a bit beyond the pale, but would still err on the side of politesse if I had to choose.
Something not pointed out in this piece, and, as aggravating as it may be to women in the 21st century, women, in general, and in the workplace, need to phrase things they want in polite language if they want to get their way.
It's not really about men not liking women bosses, either. It's about the higher pitch of a woman's voice. The higher pitch makes any demand or assertion sound, to both men and women, more irritating. (A baby's cry, with its even higher pitch, can be really irritating--even if necessary)
So, to combat the effects of sheer biology, women have learned to take the polite, and softer approach, at least many of them. But all people would be advised to use this approach in all things, especially if they want to be heard.
10
I can not believe this is a NYT pick! Really? Women have to say sorry because the pitch of their voice is irritating? Like a baby's crying?
5
'..."I'm sorry, I have a different point of view, may I explain it to you?" is far more effective, for both sexes, than, "You are wrong. Here's how it is."...'
Both are extremes and neither are effective or particularly useful in any environment.
Both are extremes and neither are effective or particularly useful in any environment.
I'd like to see your citations to the studies that have shown female voices are irritating. That doesn't flesh out in the real world. Phone sex is certainly a booming industry.
4
When are we going to see research that suggests men have an inherent personal weakness that limits their success?
20
I look forward to it.
3
I'm sorry you feel that way.
9
As I matured as a woman, I found that it was often useful to let my middle finger do my apologizing for me.
12
Nice, really helpful input. Thanks.
I work at a Trader Joe's. I hear women saying, "I'm sorry," all the time but it seems to be simply a habit with no sincerity attached. However, I rarely hear them say they are sorry when they push their carts diagonally or in a zig-zag fashion, leave their carts in the middle of the aisle, or block the aisle because they are "just looking," completely oblivious to anyone around them. Nor do I hear any "sorry" or "excuse me" when they reach right of front of me or someone else to grab something off a shelf. In my experience, the men in the store tend to be the ones who excuse themselves or apologize when they happen to inconvenience someone. While many women may apologize due to years of subjugation, the "princess" attitude also abounds.
13
This honestly could be the greatest comment on here and I can't recommend this enough. I've stopped shopping at Trader Joe's altogether because of the rude, oblivious, seemingly unsophisticated women that frequent the store. I'm serious. I haven't been to any of the stores in nearly 6 months as these stores are generally 80% of women and I just can't handle that type of stress any longer. And to give you this image, it's always the same types, the atheliesure wearing ones, stocking up enough kale to last two weeks. I'm not embellishing this statement either. The NYTimes can send someone to the Chelsea store tonight and it's a spot on match for my statement. They push their carts into people and other things, push people in general with their 2 bags + yoga mat, and the whole host of other things that I can't even voice at the moment. They never say sorry for their actions. Never. And if anything is said, it is sorry, with a passive and dismissive tone. Not a sincere sorry, but a seemingly, I can't process any other thoughts and "sorry" is just spit out. It's weird, but based on the comments I am reading here, a lot of people know what I am talking about. With the more matured/older women it's a little softer and not as frequent I'll admit, but among the under 30 types, it's astounding as its maybe every third word. And I agree, this has more to do with the princess attitude than anything. I could go on and on about this for hours, but I'll stop here. It's all so strange.
I'm so sorry you can't eat bacon. That is truly a sorry state of affairs.
13
This analysis rather blithely ignores the probable reason why women say "I'm sorry" more: because they suffer a social cost when they don't.
Study after study has shown that when women are aggressive in the workplace, they are viewed with a lot of hostility, which can often lead to problems down the line. (Of course, women are also punished for being "too nice.")
Isn't it likely that women say "I'm sorry" because it is the only way to be aggressive without paying a price for it? If so, I don't think simply "stopping" would do much to help their situations, professionally or personally.
Study after study has shown that when women are aggressive in the workplace, they are viewed with a lot of hostility, which can often lead to problems down the line. (Of course, women are also punished for being "too nice.")
Isn't it likely that women say "I'm sorry" because it is the only way to be aggressive without paying a price for it? If so, I don't think simply "stopping" would do much to help their situations, professionally or personally.
19
There is a big gray area between being aggressive and being subservient, as most successful men and women know.
1
Why don't people stop telling women what to do. Period.
22
The article might be better titled: "Another reason why we should have only men (gender) in the society regardless of biological sex."
It is a gender bias to say women are predominantly acting in certain way, and it is gender genocide to say no one should act in that way.
It is a gender bias to say women are predominantly acting in certain way, and it is gender genocide to say no one should act in that way.
6
I am a female professional, and I am of a certain age. For 20+ years I have worked at a fairly high level in a national organization. I use the apologetic form when I want to be sure to be heard by my male colleagues. I don't condone that -- it's too bad it still happens. But I have heard assertive strong professional women described as "shrill" and "abrasive" and "too direct" too many times. In those instances, the actual message the women were trying to communicate just got lost in the men's reaction to the presentation of the idea. Once one hears that kind of response enough times, one adopts the apologetic voice. "Sorry, but am I hearing you say XYZ?" Because I thing QRS" can be more effective than "QRS is the right answer." Again, it's not good. But it's real.
18
'...I have heard assertive strong professional women described as "shrill" and "abrasive" and "too direct" too many times...'
Who cares what people think?
And if an assertive woman gets anything but support for it, she best look for a job that rewards this behavior.
Who cares what people think?
And if an assertive woman gets anything but support for it, she best look for a job that rewards this behavior.
Many of us are enculturated to feel we are less important than anyone else. We apologize for our own existence even when we are not talking. Dirty lettuce leaves is one thing but we must always remember, the first thing rape victims are asked is if they did anything to provoke the assault. We apologize if we are too attractive and we try to look attractive if we are not. It is ingrained. We are sorry for.....everything.
4
I used to apologize for living. Everything needed an apology. No more. I have learned that men in business never apologize. Neither should women. I will not say I made a mistake unless it is shown that I have. If I disagree with some one or an idea, I will state that I disagree. If the person wants to become confrontational, it becomes that person's problem. I do not care anymore if men do not like what I say or do. It is none of their business.
6
As an assertive woman in business, it is other woman who pressure me to 'be nice', not men, who are much more comfortable with straightforwardness, as long as it moves the project along.
Before meetings, I have learned to warn certain female coworkers ahead of time that I am going to be very assertive and to please not interfere and to try to 'smooth things over', as that will undermine my position. It is a depressing state of affairs that women even try to apologize for other women who do not 'know their place'.
Before meetings, I have learned to warn certain female coworkers ahead of time that I am going to be very assertive and to please not interfere and to try to 'smooth things over', as that will undermine my position. It is a depressing state of affairs that women even try to apologize for other women who do not 'know their place'.
1
I no longer say "I'm sorry". In recent years (I'm now 65) I realized it had become a knee-jerk phrase, used in a variety of situations in which I wasn't "sorry"!! I was reared to be a polite little Irish Catholic girl in the Bronx, and it carried over - a habit hard to shake until I became conscious of the words emanating from me.
Words are powerful and constantly saying "I'm sorry" doesn't empower me - it diminishes my confidence and power and I'll be darned if I'm going to let it slip out when I don't mean it!!
Words are powerful and constantly saying "I'm sorry" doesn't empower me - it diminishes my confidence and power and I'll be darned if I'm going to let it slip out when I don't mean it!!
12
Agreed that women should stop apologizing. Agreed also that, in the U.S., this is female behavior and results from the gender power differential, while in the U.K. and Canada, both women and men apologize with abandon. To see examples from the U.K., follow the amusing Twitter account VeryBritishProblems (@SoVeryBritish), which yesterday tweeted:
Wondering if you could go a whole day without once saying: "Excuse me, sorry, do you mind if I just . . . "
And kudos to the writer for pointing out that, very often, "Sorry" is actually code for some less-nice messages. VeryBritishProblems has examples of this too, such as another tweet from yesterday about a phrase that, like "Sorry," glosses over what's really being said:
I'll see what I can do.
Translation: I've already forgotten your request.
Wondering if you could go a whole day without once saying: "Excuse me, sorry, do you mind if I just . . . "
And kudos to the writer for pointing out that, very often, "Sorry" is actually code for some less-nice messages. VeryBritishProblems has examples of this too, such as another tweet from yesterday about a phrase that, like "Sorry," glosses over what's really being said:
I'll see what I can do.
Translation: I've already forgotten your request.
4
Perhaps women say "sorry" more than men, as they are peacemakers. It is a way to say, I'm not looking for a fight, just calling attention to a problem. "Sorry" if this is a problem for you!
3
How typical...endorsing women while promoting masculinity. We have a society already too direct, aggressive, and masculine. Having some indirectness and passiveness would not hurt. In fact we need them, for both men and women.
5
No one should apologize except sincerely.
4
Women use "sorry" in two ways, and men only use it in one. A woman can say "sorry' for something she did (or is_ and regrets it. She also says "Sorry" when she is feeling empathy with another person. This "sorry" is shorthand for "I'm sorry that happened to you." men almost never use this particular sorry. So men then ask, "why are you saying you're sorry- You didn't do anything!" and then women apologize again. So when discussing why women say sorry so much, factor in the empathetic sorry, not just the self abasement.
5
As a young woman, "sorry" was practically a verbal tick for me on the tennis court. Now, when my young daughter fumbles a ball or makes a mistake, I encourage her to confidently declare, "I'm learninggggg!" We fall back laughing at this contrived statement, but it certainly propels a different emotional experience than "Sorry."
A heartfelt apology for a meaningful misstep? Absolutely. "Sorry" for fumbles or errors or perceived inconveniences? Stop the madness!
A heartfelt apology for a meaningful misstep? Absolutely. "Sorry" for fumbles or errors or perceived inconveniences? Stop the madness!
1
Never apologise for something you have had no control over.
5
This is just wrong. Sorry is used more to apologize for hurting someone's feelings more than anything else in my house. You can't control how someone will feel about your actions or words. What would you suggest instead of "sorry"? I also express sorrow about someone's bad feelings I didn't cause as a way to empathize. We don't have a lot of words of empathy in the English language. I guess that's not shocking, though is it? In any case, I also teach my young children to apologize for accidental injuries they cause each other, and accidents aren't exactly in anyone's control by their very nature. I never make them apologize for intentional pains they cause though. I simply tell them it wasn't nice to do and say something to the effect that good big sisters don't hit/take toys, etc. I would say, never apologize for existing, and excuse or pardon me are what to say when you end up in someone's way.
1
Actually, that's a great thing to apologise for, particularly in business. Someone apologising gets people focused on solving the problem, not finding the guilty. Well, in most businesses that's what happens. And, in those where it doesn't, why did I want to work there anyway?
1
Women apologize to inanimate objects all the time - walls they bump into, packages they drop. Explain that.
1
People who say "sorry" are generally well mannered and polite. Saying "sorry" does not imply subservience or concede fault.
7
A wise woman once told me, "It costs nothing to apologize." And I truly feel that way. Saying "I'm sorry" often disarms an angry partner, softens a message that may be unpleasant and can often simply be courteous. I understand the author's point...but the world has not become much more approving of women in the workplace since 1972 based on my personal experience, and I will continue to leverage whatever whiles I have to make business exchanges more pleasant and conflict-free.
7
New Yorkers enjoy being rude and they are telling the world that they should follow suit.
World, don't listen.
Sloane is a New Yorker and being impolite comes naturally. But those to whom it does not come naturally are the ones who should teach New Yorkers how to be polite.
"Sorry" is a civilized word, and both men and women should use it more often.
World, don't listen.
Sloane is a New Yorker and being impolite comes naturally. But those to whom it does not come naturally are the ones who should teach New Yorkers how to be polite.
"Sorry" is a civilized word, and both men and women should use it more often.
5
And yet here you are, in New York, commenting in the New York Times.
Ironic, isn't it?
Ironic, isn't it?
It's been over 30 years since I worked in a high-powered corporation, and good riddance to that job, but as far as "sorry" goes, my experience since then is that New York is a lot like London: people of bothe sexes saying "I'm sorry" whenever they brush or bump against each other.
I've said this in previous comments but they keep getting pulled.
I've said this in previous comments but they keep getting pulled.
1
Could "sorry" be the human equivalent of omega dogs rolling over on their backs and exposing their jugular in obeisance to alpha dogs? We are smaller, less muscular, poorer, lower in status than males. They don't listen to us, take us seriously, respect us, or fear us. Indeed, they find infinite ways to prey on us - from date rape, abuse, cheating, belittling, killing us, taking our children away, stealing our money, making messes they refuse to clean up. What other reason can there be for this behavior other than that they truly believe themselves to be the superior gender?
3
You are saying women victimize themselves by saying sorry? Or that women apologize because they know they are inferior to men? Or that men would respect women more if they didn't apologize? Either way, I very much disagree.
Well said. Sorry I did not say it myself!
This "writer" should apologize for subjecting readers to this whining biopic about her flawed psychology. When will anyone of literary authority state for public edification that most people who fancy themselves as writers really do not have interesting enough lives, and noteworthy accomplishments sufficient to make their unimaginative memoirizing interesting, or of value to anyone else?
2
I think that it's important to distinguish context in the use of "sorry." With strangers, a little social lubricant is probably good and harmless - though "excuse me" works just as well with less implied culpability. But in the workplace, the constant sorriness of women reinforces the ability of men making power plays to count coup on women and undermine their authority. Unfortunately, in a 40-year career I never found a workable alternative other than irrefutable technical excellence. That doesn't make one powerful, but it does create something of a fortress against workplace maneuvering.
Retired now, I am able to avoid urban settings (with subways) to my heart's content. I had to look up "manspreading" in the Urban Dictionary. Good coinage, though.
Retired now, I am able to avoid urban settings (with subways) to my heart's content. I had to look up "manspreading" in the Urban Dictionary. Good coinage, though.
1
I have spent half my life in the United States and half of it in Canada, where saying "sorry" is part of the national identity. When I consider the strengths and weaknesses of both countries, I can say with complete assurance that this topic is the very, very, very last thing Americans should be worrying about.
9
I saw "sorry" way too often, although almost never as an apology ("I regret, or I aplologize are for real apologies). Sorry has taken the place of "excuse me." I wonder how "pardon" is used in other languages.
As a woman who is direct and to the point, I've been accused of being too "pushy" or other words not suitable for a family newspaper. Throwing "sorry" out takes a little bit of the edge off.
Then there is the "Sorry, but..." which really means "I heard what you said, and the answer is no"
As a woman who is direct and to the point, I've been accused of being too "pushy" or other words not suitable for a family newspaper. Throwing "sorry" out takes a little bit of the edge off.
Then there is the "Sorry, but..." which really means "I heard what you said, and the answer is no"
2
I've probably seen you in Trader Joe's about 50 times. Thanks for making me no longer a shopper at the store.
Women saying sorry all the time has nothing to do with disliking rudeness. It has to do with the male dislike of women being assertive so women preface any action of "I want" "I am" or "I think" with "sorry' to make it more acceptable. Complaining in a restaurant about dirt in your food is not rude - it's simply pointing out poor service. This was an issue back in the 60's, how sad it still is one.
Also, as someone who lived and worked in England for many years, their propensity for saying sorry is very often meant as a subtle put down, especially if you speak with an American accent. And it isn't British, it's English - there is a big difference.
Also, as someone who lived and worked in England for many years, their propensity for saying sorry is very often meant as a subtle put down, especially if you speak with an American accent. And it isn't British, it's English - there is a big difference.
4
It has to do with the female dislike of women being assertive, as far as my experience in the business world.
Men have been fine with my being assertive and blunt. It is women who try to make everything 'nice', as if we are all in kindergarten.
Men have been fine with my being assertive and blunt. It is women who try to make everything 'nice', as if we are all in kindergarten.
This article summarizes another great perspective on this verbal tic that continues to impact women and men. I recently wrote an article for Business Insider that outlines alternatives to "sorry" to more accurately say what you mean -- to make those logical, declarative statements, express opinions and leave accurate impressions on others.
http://www.businessinsider.com/5-things-to-say-instead-of-sorry-2015-4
http://www.businessinsider.com/5-things-to-say-instead-of-sorry-2015-4
1
I agree, except when something needs doing and asking permission will just slow things down or stop them altogether. In that case dont ask permission, just do it, The later apology is a formality. It's a power move that confident men make regularly. It works just as well for women with the confidence to pull it off. To be clear, the action needs to be sound and appropriate for the situation. Yes, there's some risk involved, but, risk is something men are more comfortable with than women. Playing it safe will only get you so far. So ladies, when the situation calls for it, don't ask permission, just do it and make your apologies after the fact.
1
Incredible. I've been waiting for this article for over 10 years and it still remains one of the most vital questions, as a man, that I've had in life, and which remains unanswered. The use of the word "sorry" also has multiple uses and connotations for women. In fact, I find women use this word far more often instead of "excuse me". I find that fascinating and odd at the same time. Why do women say sorry or apologize after the fact, when I, as a man, hold a door open and they just walk straight through. I usually say, "you're welcome" and it is met with a blank stare, like "did he just call me out" and then the usual follow-up of "sorry". Often the sorry comes almost simultaneously. Why do women use this word instead of rarely, and I mean rarely, saying "pardon me" or "excuse me"? There is obviously something deeply psychological going on as this transcends among all women.
1
People who don't say "I'm sorry" are uncivilized, regardless of whether they are men or women. It makes no sense for the author to envy those who get it all wrong. She feels that she can't beat 'em so she wants to join 'em. How sad. Clearly, the author is no better then those she criticizes. Whatever issues this woman has with men, please keep her far, far away from my son.
1
I think the "sorry" sorority issue is overblown. "Sorry," is not an apology in this context, but a polite way of saying "excuse me". Rather than an "etiquette equivalent of a vestigial tail," from centuries of having to to "couch basic demands in palatable packages in order to get what we want," I see it more as a vestigial reminder of a time when civilization was a bit more civil, with societal mannerisms that underscored a certain recognition of the importance of humans other than one's self. Maybe women are a bit slower in our de-evolution back down to a society of earphone plugged, screen gawking, me-focused apes then men.
Of course everything has its limits and if overused in can become an annoying affectation.
Of course everything has its limits and if overused in can become an annoying affectation.
2
"Sorry," she said, pushing in front of me to grab a quart of milk from the Safeway cooler.--I'm an old guy & have reasonable experience and command of the nuances of "sorry," one of which is "Sorry for your existence, and you're pushable."
7
Thank you, NY Times, for this piece. "I'm sorry." can be profound, near-sacred words. They are not to be tossed out from a woman's (or anyone's) low self-worth. I too, talk with women when they rote-apologize. Their apologies make me feel burdened - I'm supposed to reassure them. I once cut in front of a woman at a salsa bar. She said, "I'm sorry." We had a chat in which I genuinely apologized for my rudeness. She said, "I know why I apologize all the time - and it's not pretty."
1
My motto "Apology softly and carry a big stick" works well for me in the business arena. Yet, it works poorly or not at all in the public government run space because very few people work there appreciate courtesy or fineness or our great President Theodore Roosevelt.
1
It doesn't "come off" as passive aggressive, it IS passive aggressive. Stop saying you're sorry for something that isn't your fault. For that matter, if it IS your fault but you're not sorry, don't say you are. Or I won't believe you when you really are apologizing.
5
You're missing the point Doc.
He is correct and has not missed any point.
Absolutely agree. Assert yourselve, calmly. That's not the same as shouting. Don't end your sentence with a question mark. Don't apologize for breathing. Grow up.
5
When I was a young prosecutor I had a boss who told us NEVER to apologize to our cop witnesses for something that was not our fault because once we apologized they assumed it was our fault. I took that to heart and never do.
5
At a time when manners, sympathy, consideration seem to be more and more rare, I can't see discouraging any trace of courtesy in our lives.
3
How is it courteous to apologize for something that is not one's fault?
2
This type of incencerity is akin to asking "how are you?" all across North America. Those who ask the question don't mean any more than those who ask it.
I'm not North American, though I lived here half my life; hence I respectfully answer by asking if they really want the answer to that question; or, I warn the interrogator that it's going to be a very long answer if they really care to get an answer to the question, etc, etc.
In a variety of ways, I refuse to give a meaningless answer to a meaningless question. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The other thing I could never wrap my mind around was "You look great!" expecting a "thank you' as a polite reply. I don't see why I'd thank anybody for a comment on my looks or my dog's appearance. ("What a cute dog!" I tell everyone very seriously that it's genetic, whether it's whatever combination of genes in my dog's physical appearance or mine because neither one of us has any contribution to the way we look. It's the way our parents produced us; why would that demand praise, congratulations, or a thanks in either of these cases?
The other answer, reserved for men who want a reward on their unrequited comments is "Ask me how I feel," which stumps them all and shuts them up without any other meaningless comment. (I identify as female.)
I'm not North American, though I lived here half my life; hence I respectfully answer by asking if they really want the answer to that question; or, I warn the interrogator that it's going to be a very long answer if they really care to get an answer to the question, etc, etc.
In a variety of ways, I refuse to give a meaningless answer to a meaningless question. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The other thing I could never wrap my mind around was "You look great!" expecting a "thank you' as a polite reply. I don't see why I'd thank anybody for a comment on my looks or my dog's appearance. ("What a cute dog!" I tell everyone very seriously that it's genetic, whether it's whatever combination of genes in my dog's physical appearance or mine because neither one of us has any contribution to the way we look. It's the way our parents produced us; why would that demand praise, congratulations, or a thanks in either of these cases?
The other answer, reserved for men who want a reward on their unrequited comments is "Ask me how I feel," which stumps them all and shuts them up without any other meaningless comment. (I identify as female.)
Lots of issues here:
Good manners: pardon me/excuse me, (meant to announce a change, smooth an interruption, facilitate a shift)
Psychological issues: never apologizing, (we all need to be sorry for something at some point)
Minority/class issues: a tough one but last time I checked there gender inequality is still alive between the sexes, (more men should be able to apologize without loss of face or place)
A healthy awareness might be the governor for proper use...
Good manners: pardon me/excuse me, (meant to announce a change, smooth an interruption, facilitate a shift)
Psychological issues: never apologizing, (we all need to be sorry for something at some point)
Minority/class issues: a tough one but last time I checked there gender inequality is still alive between the sexes, (more men should be able to apologize without loss of face or place)
A healthy awareness might be the governor for proper use...
2
I can't agree: I think men should, generally speaking, apologise more.
5
The famous "Don't excuse, don't explain." I think it was Machiavelli in a practice session before tackling The Prince.
2
A true apology requires two elements: sincere regret and the intention not to repeat the affront. When a doctor who always keeps you waiting and apologizes each time says, "I'm sorry", the "apology" is not sincere. What he is really saying is, "Don't accost me for my lack of consideration, which I intend to continue!"
55
I understand your frustration with doctors who keep one waiting. Yet maybe one can be a bit more sympathetic to the doctor unless he/she is keeping one waiting due to a smoking break or chitchat on the phone. Most of the time, the delay is caused not deliberately, due to"lack of consideration" as you put it, but due to some patients unexpectedly needing more time than others. I take the "I am sorry" words from my doctor in such a situation as a genuine expression of regret-- regret, not apology, for no apology is really called for in such uncontrollable situations.
I have reached a point where I will say to another woman, even a stranger in the isle of the supermarket, "You need not apologize." I grew up during the third wave of feminism in this country, the days of Gloria Steinem, Ms. Magazine and burn-your-bra sentiment. After all the progress women have made in this country, sacrifices made for future generations, I find it abhorrent that women still feel the need to apologize for their presence, let alone their opinions. It has nothing to do with good manners, but is rather vestige of hundreds of years of being second class citizens. I am in the Julia Child court - Never Apologize. Unless of course, I run over someone's foot or drop a newly laundered silk shirt on the floor.
2
You're very wrong. It has everything to do with good manors. Something that 90% of all women under the age of 30 lack. Sorry.
1
One more small piece of anecdotal support for the author of this piece and many of the commenters. As a lifelong learner, I've now listened to 200+ sets of college course lectures recorded in real college classrooms over the past 5-10 years. I've heard several of the lecturers apologize to their students. Every one of the "apologizers" has been a woman; nearly all of them have been outstanding instructors who, as near as I could tell, owed nobody an apology. I can't recall ever hearing a male instructor apologize, regardless of the quality of his instruction.
4
As a polite man whose mother taught me good manners, I actually wish that men would rise to nearly the level of women in apologies, though women could definitely be a little more assertive. Apologies are great grease for social interactions (as someone else mentioned about the British). I've noticed that my bosses & women in senior roles tend to behave much like the men in (not) using this social grace, though clearly that's the scourge of the business environment even more than a gender thing, in my opinion.
10
An apology is a nod to women's unconscious acknowledgment that we are playing in the boy's clubhouse and that they don't appreciate our uninvited membership and opinion. I'm sorry, but I need to be a member of The Club for a minute so that I can share an intelligent opinion or a legitimate gripe, even though you built the clubhouse, you make the rules, you set the tone and, therefore, I am actually criticizing some aspect of what you have created. I'm sorry, I know I upset your clubhouse rules by being a fully blown woman (or girl) who doesn't recognize the "keep out" sign. Time to redefine The Club and its clubhouse, starting with removing the sign over the door... without apology.
5
As a lawyer working at a law firm, I was once told by a male colleague to stop saying "sorry" in emails and client correspondence (even if I was at fault) because my clients and colleagues (male colleagues that is) would start to question the confidence in my work product and counsel. Even if this is an unfair assumption, we live in an unfair world, and since receiving this advice I rarely say "sorry" (even if I am at fault!)
1
I can see not apologizing to a client in print.
I guess i am either a woman or British. I seem to suffer from the same affliction. I do, however, live in South Florida where being overly- polite can be a survival tool. Really. A four way stop invites an instant game of chicken and crossing the road is a Roger Corman style thrill sport. Some scenes from the movie Waiting would be considered a documentary here. Stay polite Sloane, it may save your life one day.
4
I am a man who's been accused of being too apologetic. I find that in this culture there is such a dearth of good manners that anyone with it tends to stand out. I understand the gender politics to which the writer alludes. But as she also pointed out, there are cultural reasons that make one disposed to being apologetic. For example, the British. Personally, I find there is too much impoliteness in the United States as it is, and dragging a person's propensity to apologize into the gender war only muddies it more. I find that apology soothes a lot of things, so I am apt to apologize even if I think the other person was wrong. It costs me nothing and apology has a very practical value in diffusing potentially tense encounters. I don't think for a moment that being apologetic makes me any less of anything that I am. I don't define myself by other people's perceptions, but by values that I consider important. I've seen instances of where my apology prompted the offending party to own the wrongdoing and apologize. I think that's progress.
13
I agree that the word "sorry" is often not truly used as an apology, just as the words "thank you" from someone in authority often mean "Just do it- case closed."
Sorry-s are not assertive, may be passive-aggressive or just a mannerism, but certainly not assertive. There was an nyt article sometime ago that when we use them too much, they become less meaningful - ie less of a true sorry and more of a segway to wherever the conversation is going.
interestingly, when it comes to women, it's not just the word "sorry." i read a book by natalie goldberg once that talked of the way women write, too (i didn't read all 270 comments yet, so, yes, sorry if someone already wrote about this! that word again...). women, she said, according to a study done in the 1970s, tend to add way more qualifiers in their writing. here's a quote from the book:
"For instance: 'The Vietnam war is awful, isn’t it?' 'I like this, don’t you?' In their sentence structure women were always looking for reinforcement for their feelings and opinions. They didn’t just make statements and stand behind them: 'This is beautiful.' 'This is terrible.' They needed encouragement from outside themselves. (By the way, what they found to be true for women they also mentioned was true for minorities.)
Another thing women did in their speech was to use a lot of words like perhaps, maybe, somehow. Indefinite modifiers... As though the force were beyond understanding and left the woman powerless.”
"For instance: 'The Vietnam war is awful, isn’t it?' 'I like this, don’t you?' In their sentence structure women were always looking for reinforcement for their feelings and opinions. They didn’t just make statements and stand behind them: 'This is beautiful.' 'This is terrible.' They needed encouragement from outside themselves. (By the way, what they found to be true for women they also mentioned was true for minorities.)
Another thing women did in their speech was to use a lot of words like perhaps, maybe, somehow. Indefinite modifiers... As though the force were beyond understanding and left the woman powerless.”
1
"For so many women, myself included, apologies are inexorably linked with our conception of politeness. Somehow, as we grew into adults, “sorry” became an entry point to basic affirmative sentences." --
The 'somehow' is gender socialization; Women and men are socialized (as girls and boys) in gravely different ways in American culture. Read the (now-popular) articles about boys raising their hands in classrooms more than girls? That construct affirms their importance, and the desire to hear their opinions, over girls'.
I think it's important, too, for the author to clarify she's speaking for only American women. If she's going to make generalizations and speak for women, not just her experiences, she can at least be clear about that.
The 'somehow' is gender socialization; Women and men are socialized (as girls and boys) in gravely different ways in American culture. Read the (now-popular) articles about boys raising their hands in classrooms more than girls? That construct affirms their importance, and the desire to hear their opinions, over girls'.
I think it's important, too, for the author to clarify she's speaking for only American women. If she's going to make generalizations and speak for women, not just her experiences, she can at least be clear about that.
2
I'm sorry I wasted my time reading this.
9
I am so sick of lame, feminist/identity-politics, NY Times, op-ed essays disguised as lame, terminal-phase, Nora-Ephron-style comedy pieces that I am about to go outside and eat dirt, then take "a selfie" of me doing this as an act of protest about the indignities of having to read about Ms. Crosley not taking the time to read the menu in that over-priced restaurant she decided to eat in, then write about on her iPad Mini while having her over-priced coffee drink at that oh-so sophisticated cafe she frequents. I haven't had my coffee yet, and this is how I get. I'm sorry, but sand her food? Wrapped in bacon? Then she had to name-check Amy Schumer in a lame bid for hipness. Is she implying that Amy is a bit of a porker herself?
Look, Sloane, I have decided to start a local chapter of Put-Upon, Second-Rate, Celebrities in my hometown and send all of the donations I receive directly to your favorite charity, Writers Who Need Publicity For Their Latest Book. Shouldn't your new book of essays be entitled "The Clap", something you have had personal experience with? I am sorry about my comment's tone of self-righteous indignation.
Bonus old joke: Sloane: There is dirt in my coffee!
Waiter: Madam, it was just 'ground' this morning.
4
I was thinking the same thing about the menu! I'm wondering if the bacon-covered meal came and it had been described as such on the menu. In that case, yes, you should apologize. Profusely.
1
I played tennis with a group of men last week. The forehands were not stronger, the serves weren't faster, the net play was not more aggressive. The only difference between playing with women was that the men never apologized.
33
Men often simply "tolerate" women as a necessary evil in the human condition. In the act of "tolerating" women have been and are beaten, degraded, mocked and ignored. I suspect "I'm sorry" when voiced by a woman to a man is just short of an adrenal response to danger and levels of annihilation. And yes, "I'm sorry" to anyone is often a passive-aggressive response. This phrase can be applied very strategically and is a lot safer to pull out than a loaded gun.
2
So, its okay to never say your sorry?
I found this article extremely useful. I found myself chairing a meeting and asking people to focus on the issues and not attack each other personally. At the end of my introduction I said,"I'm sorry, but if I hear these attacks, you will forfeit your turn to speak." Why the "I'm sorry?" I wasn't at all sorry. I was a afraid to be too assertive. Would my male contemporary have prefaced his comments with , "I'm sorry?"
1
You could say, "It's too bad, but if I hear these attacks," thus emphasizing your statement and avoiding a fake apology.
I'm a man and I say "I'm sorry, but . . . ." all the time. I don't think it's a bad thing at all, nor do I think it has anything to do with second-class status. More men should do it, and women shouldn't stop. It's a civility in a world lacking.
80
EVERYONE knows what dirt tastes like. Last week, I ordered a salad at a restaurant and found myself crunching on a shoddily washed leaf. I took a few more sandy bites before explaining the situation to my waiter, apologizing and asking to see the menu once again."
It doesn't sound like the problem is women who say "I'm sorry". It sounds like the problem is YOU. How about "Excuse me, waiter, but I can't eat this salad. It's full of sand." Most of the time the server will say he or she is sorry and then he or she will fix the problem. And why did YOU order something covered in bacon? If you did, then YOU should say something like "Excuse me, waiter, but I can't eat this. I don't know how to read a menu."
Otherwise, sorry should be said when 1) you did something that wronged another person and you wish to express your remorse or 2) when social protocol requires it (like when you have just served someone a salad full of sand because unknown to you your boss' business doesn't know how to make a salad).
Or is this a comedy piece and I'm just missing it?
It doesn't sound like the problem is women who say "I'm sorry". It sounds like the problem is YOU. How about "Excuse me, waiter, but I can't eat this salad. It's full of sand." Most of the time the server will say he or she is sorry and then he or she will fix the problem. And why did YOU order something covered in bacon? If you did, then YOU should say something like "Excuse me, waiter, but I can't eat this. I don't know how to read a menu."
Otherwise, sorry should be said when 1) you did something that wronged another person and you wish to express your remorse or 2) when social protocol requires it (like when you have just served someone a salad full of sand because unknown to you your boss' business doesn't know how to make a salad).
Or is this a comedy piece and I'm just missing it?
1
You are missing the point. She's referring to a reflexive "I'm sorry" that many women have if they have to even slightly inconvenience someone." You try to change something you reflexively do and see how easy it is.
1
"One by one, various accomplished women on a panel apologize, first for trivial things like being allergic to caffeine, or for talking over one another, but finally for having the gall to exist in the first place. The discrepancy between what those women offer the world and how they conduct themselves in it elevates the sketch from amusing to disturbing."
My explanation? Deep-rooted lack of self esteem. I don't care how far one has gotten in life, how many people they manage, how able to juggle 10,000 tasks, women can still feel "less than."
I hope the younger generations can get past this--I think the sharpness and sense of entitlement that sometimes irks women of my age is precisely because we spent so much time, in essence, groveling. We may applaud their assertiveness, but deep down, I think we think, "this isn't ladylike behavior."
I grew up in an age of transition from male dominated culture but my dad was typically patriarchal and very much in charge of the family (my mom was a mouse). So while I might get my business drive from my dad, my emotional role model was my mother who was so afraid to offend anyone, that she rarely opened her mouth.
Maybe in a few more generations the "I'm sorry" gene will be removed from our emotional DNA. One can hope. In the meantime, I'll strive to strike a balance between appropriate apology for something I did wrong and automatic self-effacing abasement when I just need to state my truth.
My explanation? Deep-rooted lack of self esteem. I don't care how far one has gotten in life, how many people they manage, how able to juggle 10,000 tasks, women can still feel "less than."
I hope the younger generations can get past this--I think the sharpness and sense of entitlement that sometimes irks women of my age is precisely because we spent so much time, in essence, groveling. We may applaud their assertiveness, but deep down, I think we think, "this isn't ladylike behavior."
I grew up in an age of transition from male dominated culture but my dad was typically patriarchal and very much in charge of the family (my mom was a mouse). So while I might get my business drive from my dad, my emotional role model was my mother who was so afraid to offend anyone, that she rarely opened her mouth.
Maybe in a few more generations the "I'm sorry" gene will be removed from our emotional DNA. One can hope. In the meantime, I'll strive to strike a balance between appropriate apology for something I did wrong and automatic self-effacing abasement when I just need to state my truth.
2
People who *refuse* to *ever* apologize, no matter what, are rude -- and yes, typical American males.
Thus Mitt Romney's book: "No Apology: The Case for American Greatness"
He confuses rudeness with greatness.
Thus Mitt Romney's book: "No Apology: The Case for American Greatness"
He confuses rudeness with greatness.
7
"the one that advises women to avoid elbows-out personal grooming.
The scenario seems ridiculously unrealistic — and not just because it’s the only one I’ve never witnessed firsthand"
You obviously don't take the subways very often. I see this every day on the way to work.
The scenario seems ridiculously unrealistic — and not just because it’s the only one I’ve never witnessed firsthand"
You obviously don't take the subways very often. I see this every day on the way to work.
Instead of saying, "I'm sorry," men could try saying, "I apologize." For example, when you have to interrupt two people having a conversation you could say, "I apologize for interrupting, but I need to speak with you about something very important." It's that simple.
Some men think they're showing weakness by saying, "I'm sorry." That is their weakness of character not being willing to say, "I'm sorry." It takes a lot of strength to admit when you're wrong AND to apologize for it.
Some men think they're showing weakness by saying, "I'm sorry." That is their weakness of character not being willing to say, "I'm sorry." It takes a lot of strength to admit when you're wrong AND to apologize for it.
3
What an interesting perspective! I never thought of those apologies as passive aggressive, but it makes perfect sense.
Although I agree that kind of apologizing should cease, I think men also need to learn to apologize sincerely. Our culture does not reward sincere apologies (like they do in Japan) and I think that increases the incivility of our discourse.
Thanks again for a well-written and interesting piece! (That also wasn't too long)
Although I agree that kind of apologizing should cease, I think men also need to learn to apologize sincerely. Our culture does not reward sincere apologies (like they do in Japan) and I think that increases the incivility of our discourse.
Thanks again for a well-written and interesting piece! (That also wasn't too long)
Women feeling as though they have to apologize when none is needed is a holdover from the day when they could get into real trouble for being "uppity". Like Blacks in the old South, women have learned to abase themselves and keep their heads down lest they incur wrath, be it a husband or a Confederate-flag-waving Southerner.
1
I think that being direct, honest, sincere, is not something that anyone is really taught. Most people are liars who are not sincere in their dealings with others. Live in a small town for over 40 years and you find out the most people are con men and women, gossips, haters, liars, and afraid of honestly engaging with direct, verbal communication with their family members, neighbors, and co-workers about any issue. In other words, people are basically, not evolved, primitive animals who prey on one another if not in a physical way but a verbal way, too afraid to be both kind and direct as if the two could not be in the same sentence.
4
Why is women's behavior always seen as the wrong one? Women shouldn't apologize less. Men should apologize more.
8
Maybe the argument should not be for women to say "sorry" less often but for men to say it more often.
4
I work with a woman who is an over-apologizer. She says Sorry! for EVERYTHING! Before every sentence. Before asking for something. Before interrupting for something important. She is a brilliant scientist and I am an administrative professional (secretary). Yet she still has to preface everything with an apology. I don't get it. I'm a woman but I don't apologize often. If I need to interrupt somebody, I will say, "I'm sorry for interrupting but ..." and then get on with the message. Brief, succinct, and to the point. Ladies, stop being sorry.
58
For your consideration:
John Wayne put it this way.
Never apologize, never explain. It makes you look weak.
John Wayne put it this way.
Never apologize, never explain. It makes you look weak.
In my 40+ years on this earth, I've learned that women have no problem refraining from apologizing for bad behavior. That they overapologize for insignificant or not real transgressions is, frankly, not such a big deal. The inability to apologize for substantive wrongdoing is a big deal. Perhaps when women learn to flip the two, this problem will be solved. (To be sure, men have this problem, too.) "Never apologize" is a statement that guides many, many women today and has for a long time when it comes to things that actually warrant an apology and a sense of remorse.
4
Seems rather gender biased, but, so is the original article.
Men and women who are unable to admit substantive or even mid-level wrongdoing are insufferable. One of the informal rules in (mostly male) aviation is to never fly with a pilot who hasn't made a mistake. The whole psychology of never admitting faults is dangerous and unpleasant.
Men and women who are unable to admit substantive or even mid-level wrongdoing are insufferable. One of the informal rules in (mostly male) aviation is to never fly with a pilot who hasn't made a mistake. The whole psychology of never admitting faults is dangerous and unpleasant.
5
I agree with this author--I think it's awesome to be assertive, and I have worked on being more assertive and less accommodating my whole life. Yet recently I was passed over for a job promotion. I strongly suspect that my female boss does not like assertive people, and prefers more accommodating, unquestioning people. As the study said, "women have a lower threshold for what constitutes offensive behavior", so my directness seems to have rubbed her the wrong way. So what if I am great at my job--apparently a meek demeanor is more important to some.
1
I am one woman who always saves "I'm sorry" for something I am genuinely sorry for. If I bump into someone accidentally, I say "Excuse me." If I return food in a restaurant (and this does not happen often), I'll say what's wrong with the food and politely ask for a replacement. There's just way too much groveling implicit in the overuse of the term "I'm sorry.'
Also, if someone uses "I'm sorry" to me with a snarky tone, you can always snark right back with "You certainly are!"
Also, if someone uses "I'm sorry" to me with a snarky tone, you can always snark right back with "You certainly are!"
2
I taught English at Universities and Community Colleges for over 30 years. All the schools were co-ed, and all my classes were filled with both men and woman students. For nearly half my career I puzzled why women would apologize no matter what grade they got on a paper. Even some A students would apologize that they didn't do better. Needless to say, men never apologized; the closest they came was to make excuses for a low grade. To me the excuses were preferable because most of the time, they were funny and provoked laughter. The "I'm Sorry" slowly became infuriating because I couldn't understand the sentiment...at all. I blamed my overabundance of testosterone, deciding I was from Mars and my women students were all from Venus. But the behavior still and continues to bug me. Passive Aggression? Do you think? If so, it's very sneaky, but it still bothers me a lot.
I use 'I'm sorry" a lot, but almost never as an apology. To me it means, "I'm sorry this happened to you" or "I feel for you / empathize with you." I'm being polite, but I don't consider myself at fault for any thing in any way. To my husband, "I'm sorry" automatically means an apology. I guess it does in man-speak. It look him quite a while to understand that I wasn't apologizing.
If I'm *really* apologizing, I'll say something more along the lines of "Oh my, I'm very sorry I did that."
If I'm *really* apologizing, I'll say something more along the lines of "Oh my, I'm very sorry I did that."
I find it fascinating that there is a discussion here about women apologizing too much, because I haven't met one that ever has.
1
You've never met any woman that he ever apologized for anything? If that's true then I suspect you've become so accustomed to it that you fail to even hear it anymore.
1
Funny. Most women I have known are not always apologizing or apologizing much at all. Interesting you point out British men are more likely to apologize. If there is a problem with this, maybe we need more men apologizing rather than having American women take one more step to be like men. A little more politeness in society would be better than less.
1
Not me. While I am passive aggressive, I do not apologize all the time. Only when I"m wrong. Which is hardly ever, LOL. Opps, sorry to offend.
I think this might by a homonym issue. Something happens, she says "I'm sorry" and the other person responds (or thinks) that she doesn't have to apologize because the bad thing is not her fault. But, she wasn't apologizing - she was sympathizing. I think that's a common misinterpretation. E.g., "I'm sorry, but can you please turn the music down" is not an apology but a recognition that I'm asking someone to do something they may not want to do. Maybe there is a better word for that.
1
A homonym issue would be "I'm sari."
My God, I'm sorry I even read the column and the comments in the first place!
2
If I get what I want by introducing the discussion, position, entry,return, fix, question answered, with "sorry", then I win. Let's skip the autobiographical archaeology. "Sorry" is a great little device!
Sorry, but this conversation is not going anywhere. The word means too many different things to different people, and is used in all sorts of ways. For those persons who feel they overuse the word, either defensively or passive aggressively, please try something else -- you may feel better. For those of us who use it too little, some added humility wouldn't hurt. For those who use it as a social lubricant and don't view themselves as capitulators, please continue your usage.
1
Are you trying to be ironic for starting your post off with an obviously insincere "sorry"?
The waiter probably thought the author was sending her food back a third time. I think she is a polite person who doesn't want to be overly demanding. Nothing wrong with that. We sometimes say "sorry" when we mean "may I please…(or) excuse me but ... " This is simply syntactical. There are "sorrys" that are simply acknowledging that one is putting someone else to some trouble like "Sorry to bother you, but do you have a tissue?" versus "Sorry, I need my check right away," to a waiter. Obviously one should say, "May I please have my check immediately?" No explanation needed. If my meal is full of dirt or otherwise unacceptable, I simply call the waiter or waitress and say "this food is," however it is. Stating the facts without attitude, as the author suggests, usually brings apologies from the wait staff or chef and a correction, which is how it should be.
As a single mother of a teenage boy, I actually TEACH him NOT to say "sorry" unless he means it. And I abide by the same rule. I abhor apologetic statements that are meaningless....I think it's all part of responsibility and self-awareness that seems to be lacking in society in general.
1
Wait--someone gave you dirt to eat, put bacon in a dish where you'd requested none, and didn't give you a fork, and YOU apologized?
I'm a woman, and I'd have expected THEM to apologize. I'll say I'm sorry if I am, and I mean it. I don't say "Sorry" to get people off my back. I don't say it sarcastically. But when I don't get the service I'm paying for, I try to be polite, but I for darned sure don't apologize for expecting it.
I'm a woman, and I'd have expected THEM to apologize. I'll say I'm sorry if I am, and I mean it. I don't say "Sorry" to get people off my back. I don't say it sarcastically. But when I don't get the service I'm paying for, I try to be polite, but I for darned sure don't apologize for expecting it.
1
if you didn't want something covered in bacon, why did you order something cover in bacon?
your mistake. you should have apologized. and it souonds like you don't know when you should or shouldn't use the 'i'm sorry, but..." lead in.
maybe you should stuff your sorries in sack.
your mistake. you should have apologized. and it souonds like you don't know when you should or shouldn't use the 'i'm sorry, but..." lead in.
maybe you should stuff your sorries in sack.
Maybe you should work on your reading skills. The first dish, full of dirt, contained no bacon. The second dish, which was presumably a replacement dish, should've been similarly vegetarian. Nowhere did she say she ordered anything with bacon.
Translation:
"I am sorry (for having to even bring to your attention your selfish, ego-centric behavior but you are so obviously self-absorbed it is necessary that I do so lest it continue unabated), but would you mind [fill in the blank]?
"I am sorry (for having to even bring to your attention your selfish, ego-centric behavior but you are so obviously self-absorbed it is necessary that I do so lest it continue unabated), but would you mind [fill in the blank]?
1
"Sorry", "excuse me", and "pardon me" are all considered polite ways to get someone'e attention or serve as preludes to asking someone to do something. Sometimes the request is obvious, like moving out of the way, or it's just a matter of a heads up. Don't read to much into it. Or just start saying "Hey, you!" instead. It won't be considered polite, but no one will think you're apologizing.
1
Not all women apologize. The French women seldom, if ever, apologize for anything. In the 12+ years I have lived in France I have just once heard anyone French apologize and that is the truth. An apology is only used when you directly harm or are rude to another person. For example: I had a woman drop some things into my cart. When she realized what she had done she did not apologize to me for the inconvenience of my waiting while she retrieved what she had placed in my cart. She simply state that she was in a hurry. Another experience I had occurred in an airport. The woman was rushing when she backed up into me causing me to tumble over my baggage. She helped me up, asked if I was harmed, and when I said no she said good! Have a nice day! Bye. Then we had neighbors over for dinner, They arrived about 20 minutes late. I got an apology for that.
When I go back to visit in the states my adult children tell me I am rude now. It seems I also have fallen away from the habit of interfacing everything with an apology and a smile. You know what? I like it much better this way.
When I go back to visit in the states my adult children tell me I am rude now. It seems I also have fallen away from the habit of interfacing everything with an apology and a smile. You know what? I like it much better this way.
3
I've been working with college students for more than 20 years.
I have several little personal projects and this is a longstanding one.
Whenever a female student says "I'm sorry" for something ridiculous
--getting off the elevator when I'm getting on on, e.g.--
which they do frequently, I ask, "Why are you sorry?" "What are you sorry for?"
It makes them wake up, briefly.
I have several little personal projects and this is a longstanding one.
Whenever a female student says "I'm sorry" for something ridiculous
--getting off the elevator when I'm getting on on, e.g.--
which they do frequently, I ask, "Why are you sorry?" "What are you sorry for?"
It makes them wake up, briefly.
4
I have strong doubts whether this has to do with gender or upbringing/culture. Perhaps I have been surrounded by stronger women. I have quite the opposite experience from what is portrayed in this article.
1
I'm really sick of people, usually guys, telling me not to say "i'm sorry" so much. It's my choice whether I want to say it, and it's usually appropriate. It's part of being polite. If you don't want to say it, don't say it, but don't tell me I can't. It's hard to find a substitute for the phrase that makes sense - "pardon me" or "excuse me" is a good substitute, but it can come off as rude.
4
No one is telling anyone they cannot use the phrase, just that if a woman starts every opinion with an apology, no one will listen to her, especially at work.
My favorite example comes from the oh-so-British crew of British Airways, 1987. On a flight to London during a summer sabbatical to study for a graduate degree, the Purser approached me in my coach seat. "Terribly sorry, but we have a family who might be more comfortable using your seat. Would you mind moving to First Class?" I suspect the only person sorry about that arrangement was the British business man who thought his First Class seat would be a private one.
4
It's bothered me for a while to have women saying "sorry" when I think the phrase they are looking for is the civil grease phrases "pardon me" or "excuse me".
When two people cross paths unexpectedly, like when turning round a corner on a busy sidewalk, and only one says "sorry" - that one's almost always a woman.
Please, don't use the apology word for walking on the same sidewalk as me, even if we nearly bump into each other. You have exactly as much right to be following your path as me with mine. "Excuse me" is the phrase.
I've never said this out loud to a woman because I was afraid she'd say "Sorry".
When two people cross paths unexpectedly, like when turning round a corner on a busy sidewalk, and only one says "sorry" - that one's almost always a woman.
Please, don't use the apology word for walking on the same sidewalk as me, even if we nearly bump into each other. You have exactly as much right to be following your path as me with mine. "Excuse me" is the phrase.
I've never said this out loud to a woman because I was afraid she'd say "Sorry".
3
I think you get to a deeper issue in that many women inherently think that imposing on anyone, even in an unavoidable way such as bumping into someone on the street, is impolite and offensive. In those cases it is, at its base, that those women don't feel worthy of making any imposition.
Articles about non-issues are OK if they are amusing or interesting. This one wasn't. Sorry.
6
No you're not. First, as a man, you declare its a "non-issue." I think it is. Next you declare its not interesting. Ditto. But thanks for writing and illuminating that by your response, it really is an issue. BTW, I'm probably a lot older than the author. I don't say sorry (unless the situation warrants it.) And I hear way too many superfluous "sorrys."
I realized when I was young that because I was able to apologize before issuing a complaint that I was more likely to speak up than my husband, who would never apologize and who also would let many things go because he didn't have a way to politely confront someone.
I also can think of instances where I would have liked the person to apologize to me. However, some people take apologies too far and I myself have been guilty of this. I used to think it was the result of having a father who was a bully, but when I see so many women have the problem, I know that I'm not alone. My husband, when we were first married, asked me to stop apologizing for everything. I would have liked him to apologize more. Behavior is complicated. We all need to examine ourselves carefully to see where there is room for change.
I also can think of instances where I would have liked the person to apologize to me. However, some people take apologies too far and I myself have been guilty of this. I used to think it was the result of having a father who was a bully, but when I see so many women have the problem, I know that I'm not alone. My husband, when we were first married, asked me to stop apologizing for everything. I would have liked him to apologize more. Behavior is complicated. We all need to examine ourselves carefully to see where there is room for change.
1
The author complains that women say sorry when really, they're angry. The author sounds angry, about a lot of things. Yeah, you should have received that email two weeks ago. Whether you say sorry in trying to deal with it really has nothing to do with resolving the problem.
I think saying you're sorry is just politeness to indicate you're not putting on airs assuming people are there just to serve your needs.
I'd like to see an article written by a woman about the other side of this coin, about how some women won't tell you about it at all when they're mad about something. Instead, they may whisper to everyone else about you but will still say nothing to you. Myself, I'm in an five year long "feud" with a family member: long faces, scowls, brusqueness, open irritation. But, not a word will pass her mouth about what exactly she's miffed about. I'd say "sorry" if I knew what the problem was. Apparently, it's like Marge Simpson said to Lisa when she told her mom she was angry, You're a woman. You can hold onto it forever.
I'd like to see an article written by a woman about the other side of this coin, about how some women won't tell you about it at all when they're mad about something. Instead, they may whisper to everyone else about you but will still say nothing to you. Myself, I'm in an five year long "feud" with a family member: long faces, scowls, brusqueness, open irritation. But, not a word will pass her mouth about what exactly she's miffed about. I'd say "sorry" if I knew what the problem was. Apparently, it's like Marge Simpson said to Lisa when she told her mom she was angry, You're a woman. You can hold onto it forever.
For what, exactly, do we constantly need to apologize? I fully understand the value of the "assertive apology" and see that it's more polite than, in the noisy neighbor example, saying what you really think and feel at that hour. (I've been though this myself, and have caught myself saying, "I'm sorry to bother you, but could you please turn down the TV?" I am the bother!?! Anyway.)
Years ago, I knew a young woman who apologized for everything. EVERYTHING. Her boyfriend got a new job that paid quite a bit? She was sorry. She lost some weight? She was sorry. Why? Why not celebrate these things? It's OK, and it's not a slight against someone else when we have a success.
What is interesting is the apology - or rather, the "I'm sorry" - when we need to convey dissatisfaction. It's become a knee-jerk, filler sort of phrase. When we are truly sorry, when we need to apologize, the language is more clear and direct and meaningful. When I am sorry, whether it be a remorseful apology or an expression of sympathy, there is nuanced language to use. When I don't want dirty lettuce, I am going to be conscientious about not saying I am sorry about it. We have a right to satisfaction without having to be sorry for asking.
Years ago, I knew a young woman who apologized for everything. EVERYTHING. Her boyfriend got a new job that paid quite a bit? She was sorry. She lost some weight? She was sorry. Why? Why not celebrate these things? It's OK, and it's not a slight against someone else when we have a success.
What is interesting is the apology - or rather, the "I'm sorry" - when we need to convey dissatisfaction. It's become a knee-jerk, filler sort of phrase. When we are truly sorry, when we need to apologize, the language is more clear and direct and meaningful. When I am sorry, whether it be a remorseful apology or an expression of sympathy, there is nuanced language to use. When I don't want dirty lettuce, I am going to be conscientious about not saying I am sorry about it. We have a right to satisfaction without having to be sorry for asking.
1
As a woman who's naturally direct (not rude), I'm often caught in a bind. I resent having preface my comments with "sorry", but am concerned that others, including other women, will punish me for not complying with expected female protocol.
Strong, highly outspoken women abound on TV. Real life is different.
Strong, highly outspoken women abound on TV. Real life is different.
5
And in some ways even worse is in school settings (including school board meetings in small districts), where women (and sometimes men) calling out poor management or teaching practices might be concerned that administrators or teachers will direct punishment at one's child(ren). Also true in health care settings where someone is advocating for an elderly or other vulnerable person.
1
Agreed that the pushback to be 'nice' usually comes from other women, not men.
Is saying "excuse me" when addressing an unfamiliar person (by male or female) not the same as saying "I'm sorry...." ? To me its a courtesy extended to someone whose immediate attention one wants. Shouldn't judging a person's use of "I'm sorry ...." be considered in light of the context in which it is used. I sometimes think too many of us judge the behavior of others from a "one size fits all" mind set.
1
“I’m sorry, but can you turn the music down?” I would never say that. I might preface my comment with Please. That's it. And say Thank You if my request is met.
I reserve the word "sorry" for an apology -- and it should be a real apology, including the three steps of saying a genuine sorry, agreeing to try to determine how the offending behavior happened, and to take steps to avoid it in the future. Anything less seems like a shrug to me. And that's what I thought this op-ed piece was going to address.
I reserve the word "sorry" for an apology -- and it should be a real apology, including the three steps of saying a genuine sorry, agreeing to try to determine how the offending behavior happened, and to take steps to avoid it in the future. Anything less seems like a shrug to me. And that's what I thought this op-ed piece was going to address.
Women should not be turned into men. Better to err on the side of sorry than rudeness. Who wants anyone in their life that can't say sorry. We need to stop pushing women to act like men. Never be embarrassed at saying sorry no matter how often. My mother and mother in-law were perfect females. Strong but equally nice. They didn't overuse Sorry but neither did they under use it.
1
The problem is that men very often take that act of politeness as agreement that they should keep on doing whatever inconsiderate thing they were doing.
Very interesting article. Thanks for the insight. I might also add that people (usually men) of power or importance rarely apologize the right way. The "I'm sorry if..." construct of faux-apologies is so common that I fear that it's almost become accepted. Apologies are so important for civil societies. So we should take note not to overuse (as indicated in this article) or misuse them. Thanks for reading, and I'm sorry if I've taken up too much of your time.
1
Perhaps I'm one of those rare women who say "Sorry" only when we truly are. If I bump into someone, I'll say "sorry!" If someone bumps into me, I don't. If I've done somebody wrong, I'll say "I'm sorry," usually in more extensive language, and I truly am sorry. Giving valid criticism, interrupting a tirade, issuing a well-earned failing grade, intervening in a potentially dangerous situation, etc., do not call forth "sorry" from me. If I'm talked over in a meeting, I might say, "Wait, I'm not finished." If I'm chairing a meeting, I might say, "Let's get started" to shut off the chatter, not "sorry, we need to get started." There are many more examples.
Words matter. When used, they have consequences. I think that when women use "Sorry" as a standard opener, they are indeed masking annoyance and aiming to soften a possibly hostile audience. It lowers their credibility and authority. When they don't use such a device, however, they can be seen as overbearing, annoying, aggressive, unfeminine, and need I say bitchy? So, other strategies must be employed to maintain desired perceptions rather than stereotypical ones.
I know quite a number of men who say "I'm sorry" when they really mean it, like me. And they don't say it as an opening, softening, masking phrase. Come on, ladies, it's really not so hard to stop. It just takes practice.
Words matter. When used, they have consequences. I think that when women use "Sorry" as a standard opener, they are indeed masking annoyance and aiming to soften a possibly hostile audience. It lowers their credibility and authority. When they don't use such a device, however, they can be seen as overbearing, annoying, aggressive, unfeminine, and need I say bitchy? So, other strategies must be employed to maintain desired perceptions rather than stereotypical ones.
I know quite a number of men who say "I'm sorry" when they really mean it, like me. And they don't say it as an opening, softening, masking phrase. Come on, ladies, it's really not so hard to stop. It just takes practice.
1
My neighbour recently told me that her auto insurance company tried to stick the blame for an accident on her because when she spoke to the other driver, she said 'I'm sorry.' The insurance company said, if you apologized, you must have done something wrong.
Overall, though, I'm in the centre on this one. Some sorrys are good and do smooth things over. Many others are a bad habit. Many of my sorrys when I was younger were said because of a fear of confrontation.
Now I might just say something like, 'I know you are busy but there is dirt in my salad! Can you get me another one?' No sorry but still considerate.
Overall, though, I'm in the centre on this one. Some sorrys are good and do smooth things over. Many others are a bad habit. Many of my sorrys when I was younger were said because of a fear of confrontation.
Now I might just say something like, 'I know you are busy but there is dirt in my salad! Can you get me another one?' No sorry but still considerate.
4
Actually, there is another warning directed at females in the NY subway etiquette ads. It's also about taking up too much space, but whereas men spread their legs, women just have too many shopping bags. Ha! It's only funny because it's true.
Women are not commonly permitted to express anger and distress or to voice frustration and opinions. Women swallow hard and say sorry for the littlest thing(s), for they're often trying to avoid being called or considered something harsh.
Women are often pigeon holed as being the more emotional sex. Yet I ask if male rage isn't an emotion than what is?
May I point out too that more than often overly aggressive drivers are almost always male as well.
Lastly, women are prescribed way more anti-depressants. Perhaps more self expression would lessen that.
Women are often pigeon holed as being the more emotional sex. Yet I ask if male rage isn't an emotion than what is?
May I point out too that more than often overly aggressive drivers are almost always male as well.
Lastly, women are prescribed way more anti-depressants. Perhaps more self expression would lessen that.
2
'...for they're often trying to avoid being called or considered something harsh...'
Perhaps they should worry less about what others think of them or, if not, accept that this is their choice.
Perhaps they should worry less about what others think of them or, if not, accept that this is their choice.
The French refer to this as "manners."
I'm certain Julia Child was familiar with the concept from her time here or she would have eaten a large amount of dirt.
I'm certain Julia Child was familiar with the concept from her time here or she would have eaten a large amount of dirt.
64
So do the Japanese.
1
One of the 60 minutes reporters, male, but unfortunately, which one escapes me, said that before asking a potentially awkward question to answer he would begin with "Please forgive me, but...."
I've adopted his method.
I've adopted his method.
3
I learned to apologize, not because I am a woman, but because my stepfather, who raised me, taught me it was the polite thing to do. For example, "Sorry to trouble you, but may I..." was considered the proper way to ask for things. When I travel, I am mistaken for being Canadian rather than being from New Jersey.
132
Speaking of traveling, while boarding I inadvertently bumped a flight attendant with a tray of drinks in first class (i was just passing through). About ten drinks spilled on a hapless, first class passenger. I was very sorry and said so. The flight attendant, amazingly, said "no problem." I think the poor passenger was too speechless, and wet, to say anything. I say I am sorry when I am wrong, even if it is accidental. Otherwise, not usually.
That's inspiring. So....Maybe something more specific like "pardon the interruption/inconvenience, but..."
the problem with just plain "sorry" is it indicates the request itself is worth apologizingn for, when as you point out you are wanting to apologize for the inconvenience to the other person.
the problem with just plain "sorry" is it indicates the request itself is worth apologizingn for, when as you point out you are wanting to apologize for the inconvenience to the other person.
Did he teach your brothers the same thing.
I'm sorry, but I really don't see what all the consternation is about.
2
I agree with this article wholeheartedly except to note that this isn't a woman-only problem. Many thoughtful males still find the need to preemptively "apologize" for any self-assertion. I know this because, as a male, I do this often myself. It's not a gender issue, it's a "trying to hard to be nice" issue.
(Sorry for what might be perceived as a stinging critique...)
(Sorry for what might be perceived as a stinging critique...)
5
That's all right, I'll deliver the stinging critique:
Ms. Crosley, why are you making this a feminist issue?
Ms. Crosley, why are you making this a feminist issue?
Behaviors aren't left over, if they are being used they serve a purpose. If 'all women' are apologizing then they still need to deflect social punishment.
Only some social positions allow direct and assertive behavior that is met with approval and not hostility--unless that goes away, the different ways we act to avoid social corrections can't go away either.
This article is a way of socially correcting people who take steps that will reduce the likelihood of being socially corrected by other people.
Only some social positions allow direct and assertive behavior that is met with approval and not hostility--unless that goes away, the different ways we act to avoid social corrections can't go away either.
This article is a way of socially correcting people who take steps that will reduce the likelihood of being socially corrected by other people.
4
Perhaps women (primarily women) say "sorry" as a preface to a request so as to ward off the sometimes curmudgeonly, or dismissive, response they might get? ... such as some offered in response to the piece.
My use of sorry means just that. "Waitress, I'm sorry to bother you [because I know you have an extremely hard job and cannot afford to eat at the place where you work and I'm sorry to have to add to your load] I smile, too, so the waitperson will feel good, and because I appreciate that she/he will help fix the problem.
My use of sorry means just that. "Waitress, I'm sorry to bother you [because I know you have an extremely hard job and cannot afford to eat at the place where you work and I'm sorry to have to add to your load] I smile, too, so the waitperson will feel good, and because I appreciate that she/he will help fix the problem.
1
I've never been on a subway. Why is eating on one inconsiderate?
1
Women who are overweight are especially guilty of saying "I'm sorry," for just about everything. It has become a bad habit and shows insincerity when one really needs to apologize.
In a mixed group of business people, the leader makes us put in a dollar when we apologize. I notice the men rarely need to contribute.
In a mixed group of business people, the leader makes us put in a dollar when we apologize. I notice the men rarely need to contribute.
1
I don't know why you think it makes actual apologies insincere. I can certainly tell the difference between an apology formed out of politeness and one formed out of actual apology.
In many languages, there is a polite form used by women. I think our use of the word "sorry" is the English version of that. If you don't do it, you will be seen as too rude and forthright (if you are a woman) because we expect women to use the polite, female wording
I agree with the basic premise of this piece, and like Crosley, am annoyed when I hear myself apologizing unnecessarily (say, before expressing an opinion, or when someone else bumps into me). As a vegetarian, I also have experienced the disappointment of finding unwanted bacon on my plate.
However, I think it’s important to distinguish between assertiveness/directness, and the kind of entitlement suggested by Crosley’s opening example.
It’s not wasted “airtime” to apologize to the waiter for whom you are creating extra work, even if it’s not your fault—it’s not his fault, either, that the salad was dirty or that there was meat in the dish you ordered, and I’m sure he apologized to you for those things, regardless.
I wouldn’t be annoyed with myself for apologizing in this case—in fact, I would find any woman or man who didn’t apologize extremely obnoxious.
However, I think it’s important to distinguish between assertiveness/directness, and the kind of entitlement suggested by Crosley’s opening example.
It’s not wasted “airtime” to apologize to the waiter for whom you are creating extra work, even if it’s not your fault—it’s not his fault, either, that the salad was dirty or that there was meat in the dish you ordered, and I’m sure he apologized to you for those things, regardless.
I wouldn’t be annoyed with myself for apologizing in this case—in fact, I would find any woman or man who didn’t apologize extremely obnoxious.
5
I'm really sorry, but I don't care for this article!!!
What's wrong with 'Sorry'?
It means only to offer an olive branch, often when one asks someone else usually a stranger to fix an annoyance.
Is that not superior to "The Honeymooners" approach when, for example, Ralph Kramden told others to quiet down in an insulting, in-your-face manner.
If one is being pummelled, saying 'Sorry' to the batterer would be insane. But does this article suggest anyone goes that far?
Article makes much of nothing.
It means only to offer an olive branch, often when one asks someone else usually a stranger to fix an annoyance.
Is that not superior to "The Honeymooners" approach when, for example, Ralph Kramden told others to quiet down in an insulting, in-your-face manner.
If one is being pummelled, saying 'Sorry' to the batterer would be insane. But does this article suggest anyone goes that far?
Article makes much of nothing.
4
As for men being overall less considerate (vs women) of the space they take up on the subway, that is simply not true. Sure, men are more guilty of 'man-spreading' versus women. However, women are space hogs in other ways, i.e., putting their bags on the seat next to them, crossing their legs so that their shod foot protrudes out into their standing counterparts (in which instance btw I refuse to accommodate such women's legs and will ask them to please put their foot down!), leaning against poles, etc. We are so focused on man-spreaders, but I find women who cross their legs just as rude. I can't tell you how many times I've been 'kicked' by self-centered women who expect everyone on a crowded train to 'make a space' for her and her crossed legs. Talk about self-centered!
5
Does all it take to get published these days amount to a) being female and b) seeming to write on "womens issues"?
4
Well, YOU just got published.
1
Oh, we're all so sorry!
2
My fav is the mostly female New Yorker who says, "sorry" before plowing into you on her way to somewhere more important than you are.
How does that fit in? It confuses me.
fyi I am female.
How does that fit in? It confuses me.
fyi I am female.
5
Why would you ever apologize to a restaurant server for serving you inedible food? I must have missed the "sorry" training for those types of interactions because my daughters tell me that I'm sometimes rude in my level of assertiveness. Better by far to demand what one is paying for than to apologize for not getting it.
3
I think I miised the "sorry" training as well. I will be 60 in October, and I was born in NY. I was never taught to appologize for something I did not do. I think women of my generation, at least the ones I grew up with, were pretty clear about their roles as women in this world. It seems to me that women are more confused today, and maybe a tad bit too PC. They are the product of a media infused culture that is constantly telling them who they should be, so that innate sense of self-confidence that we had is just not there.
1
What is the value of being "assertive" when there's a mistake by a waiter, besides showing them that you are superior and have the right to tell them what to do. If they are rude to you I don't see any need to be polite back, but if it was an honest mistake I don't see that waitstaff deserve "demands." You can always give them a lower tip as protest of their poor service, but no need to wave a flag at them saying "I'm not getting what I paid for and it's all your fault."
So this is how one gets away with "punching down"? Take a trait that is undesirable in x, and then, like the often heard claim of satire, say you are exposing culture. Interesting.
Sweeping generalization that does not fit some people's experience of reality in the slightest. I have known a few women who almost never apologize being seemingly inacapable of allowing for any awareness of personal fault. These are the same people who can never forgive and see an apology by others as a display of weakness warranting only contempt or attack. People are individuals, not stereotypes.
5
Obviously, I can't speak for women. From the other side of the gender aisle, I think the difference is that, most men live lives of quiet oblivion until something is called to their attention. In that sense, the author is right. Amongst a group of men, taking offense to things too often (even in what is arguably a genuinely offensive environment) is strange. On the other hand, if a man has been so offended that he just can't carry on, he's usually expected to express himself directly. Apologizing before hand would (for all the reasons expressed in this very article) be viewed as a bit effeminate.
4
Contrary to comments that suggest profuse use of "sorry" expressing needed solidarity in an age of me-me-me, using "sorry" merely reflects the attention back to the sorry-sayer even when the implied "I am" has been removed.
"Thank you" assumes a shared agenda where "sorry" divides and pits us against one another. With the exception of apologizing for errors that have been committed, "sorry" is too often used when "thank you" is the better response (although thanking the aggrieved for their patience is a sometimes good follow-up to an apology).
Responding to someone's giving us their attention, cooperation, or a share of space with a sincere "Thank you" is powerful in place of a "Sorry" and can color an exchange with a positive light rather than beginning on uneven and grievous grounds. "Thank you" spotlights the goodness of the recipient of those words where "sorry" makes it all about the one who is in the way.
"Thank you" assumes a shared agenda where "sorry" divides and pits us against one another. With the exception of apologizing for errors that have been committed, "sorry" is too often used when "thank you" is the better response (although thanking the aggrieved for their patience is a sometimes good follow-up to an apology).
Responding to someone's giving us their attention, cooperation, or a share of space with a sincere "Thank you" is powerful in place of a "Sorry" and can color an exchange with a positive light rather than beginning on uneven and grievous grounds. "Thank you" spotlights the goodness of the recipient of those words where "sorry" makes it all about the one who is in the way.
1
Simply mouthing the words "I'm sorry" without understanding why is a missed opportunity to do more. In the comments and in the article I observe many possible reasons for saying this catch-all sentence. The statements "That was not on purpose and I could have been more careful. I am sorry." or "I know this is inconvenient, but I have a problem and I need your help." do so much more for both parties. The one about "please don't hurt me" is a little more perplexing to me, but I have to question whether that is a way to live. Maybe best to say it and get it over with. Someone could come away from that with a great deal more understanding.
'...why are women always apologizing?...'
It is not 'The Patriarchy' that trains women to act subservient, it is their own mothers, who tell them from the time they are toddlers to always be 'nice'.
As a woman in business, it is shocking to me that in meetings many women start their sentences with 'I'm sorry, but' or 'I don't know, but', so that no one takes their opinions seriously? Why should they, if a person does not stand by their own opinion?
There is a huge difference for apologizing for a slight and apologizing for your existence and women best learn the difference.
It is similar to keeping your weight down, where a person should be thoughtful about everything they put in their mouth.
Be thoughtful about everything that comes out of your mouth, as your mother does not always know best.
It is not 'The Patriarchy' that trains women to act subservient, it is their own mothers, who tell them from the time they are toddlers to always be 'nice'.
As a woman in business, it is shocking to me that in meetings many women start their sentences with 'I'm sorry, but' or 'I don't know, but', so that no one takes their opinions seriously? Why should they, if a person does not stand by their own opinion?
There is a huge difference for apologizing for a slight and apologizing for your existence and women best learn the difference.
It is similar to keeping your weight down, where a person should be thoughtful about everything they put in their mouth.
Be thoughtful about everything that comes out of your mouth, as your mother does not always know best.
1
But then there's the weak "I'm sorry" that doesn't mean anything, like that of the New York Times last week, "sorry IF" there was offense in the article about the Irish students who died when a balcony collapsed under them; sorry IF there was offense stereotyping all Irish students in the U.S. as drunken party-goers. Sometimes an apology is an insult.
1
To complete this discussion, refer to: "Watching The English: the Hidden Rules of English Behaviour" by British anthropologist Kate Fox, and to the American expression "I said I'm sorry" with somewhat sarcastic emphasis of the second and fourth words, as used by characters in The Sopranos.
I use the words "I'm sorry" way too often--usually when I actually mean "excuse me."
2
I personally like the politeness that sorry generally conveys, much like please, thank you and excuse me. Just because some people may see good manners as a sign of weakness, I am not planning to give them up. What really annoys me though is when a person pretends to be apologizing for an offense with the phrase "I'm sorry you feel that way." To me that means you are telling someone that it is their problem for taking offense and is the opposite of expressing regret for causing it.
1
My favorite retort to "I'm sorry you feel that way": "Not as sorry as I am"!
1
Bless your heart ;)
3
I find today's overuse of the word "sorry" to be a way of filling air space and an insincere vehicle for saying the total opposite.
I have a feeling people are substituting the passive aggressive "I'm sorry" for what would probably be best expressed as a simple "apology" (if that?), which connotes more of an intellectual nuance.
Puh-leeze. If warranted apologize. But keep the "sorrys" for something truly sorrowful like death, hurt or true pain. Language matters.
I have a feeling people are substituting the passive aggressive "I'm sorry" for what would probably be best expressed as a simple "apology" (if that?), which connotes more of an intellectual nuance.
Puh-leeze. If warranted apologize. But keep the "sorrys" for something truly sorrowful like death, hurt or true pain. Language matters.
3
I'm sorry, but I disagree with the conclusion of this article. Women should not become more like men. In this regard, men should become more like women.
Imagine how far fewer wars there would be if more men followed this path. Imagine a statement from the Austrian government in 1914, "I'm sorry Serbia, but your Princip fellow has killed our Archduke. We find that totally unacceptable. What do you have to say for yourself?" rather than the ultimatum which was issued, with a two day response deadline. No WWI, no rise of Hitler, no WWII. I'm sorry, but I think that history would be much preferable to a future where women stop apologizing for things they maybe shouldn't.
Imagine how far fewer wars there would be if more men followed this path. Imagine a statement from the Austrian government in 1914, "I'm sorry Serbia, but your Princip fellow has killed our Archduke. We find that totally unacceptable. What do you have to say for yourself?" rather than the ultimatum which was issued, with a two day response deadline. No WWI, no rise of Hitler, no WWII. I'm sorry, but I think that history would be much preferable to a future where women stop apologizing for things they maybe shouldn't.
13
'... men are far less likely to be conscious of personal space than women...'
Because most men do not realize they take up too much space, as women do not like being touched by strange men, not even brushed against unintentionally, so we automatically move out of the way.
Men do not do this to men, because they all contest for space. Watch a man walking down the street. He thinks he has a clear path, with no realization that 50% of the people are moving aside for him. This will never change as long as women dislike being touched by strange men, which means never.
'...To me, they sound like tiny acts of revolt...It comes off as passive-aggressive...'
Because it *is* passive-aggressive and, as a woman, I find it incredibly frustrating to deal with women like this, as do most men. It is not only possible to be straightforward and polite, it is preferable, as that is what adults do.
'...When a woman opens her window at 3 a.m. on a weeknight and shouts to her neighbor, “I’m sorry, but can you turn the music down?” the “sorry” is not an attempt at unobtrusiveness. It’s not even good manners. It’s a poor translation for a string of expletives...'
I read an article where a woman had drunk partiers sitting on her stoop well into the wee hours every weekend. After unsuccessfully asking them to move, she opened her window and told them she was going to throw a bucket of water down on them and the second bucket would not be water. They moved. No apologies needed!
Because most men do not realize they take up too much space, as women do not like being touched by strange men, not even brushed against unintentionally, so we automatically move out of the way.
Men do not do this to men, because they all contest for space. Watch a man walking down the street. He thinks he has a clear path, with no realization that 50% of the people are moving aside for him. This will never change as long as women dislike being touched by strange men, which means never.
'...To me, they sound like tiny acts of revolt...It comes off as passive-aggressive...'
Because it *is* passive-aggressive and, as a woman, I find it incredibly frustrating to deal with women like this, as do most men. It is not only possible to be straightforward and polite, it is preferable, as that is what adults do.
'...When a woman opens her window at 3 a.m. on a weeknight and shouts to her neighbor, “I’m sorry, but can you turn the music down?” the “sorry” is not an attempt at unobtrusiveness. It’s not even good manners. It’s a poor translation for a string of expletives...'
I read an article where a woman had drunk partiers sitting on her stoop well into the wee hours every weekend. After unsuccessfully asking them to move, she opened her window and told them she was going to throw a bucket of water down on them and the second bucket would not be water. They moved. No apologies needed!
5
What about 'excuse me', as in "Excuse me, would you mind turning your radio down?" 'Excuse me' or 'pardon me' are perfectly natural and accepted ways to get another person's attention, certainly more polite than 'hey, you!', and don't utilize the apologetic 'sorry'.
1
"I beg your pardon" usually rivets the other's attention in a remarkable way.
Oh please, this reminds me of 'southern hospitality' the kind of passive aggressive behavior that fools no one but the fool.
I stopped apologizing along time ago for the mere reason of existing. What are women so afraid of that they need to apologize for living, moving and speaking?
Women perpetuate this situation, women must end it.
I stopped apologizing along time ago for the mere reason of existing. What are women so afraid of that they need to apologize for living, moving and speaking?
Women perpetuate this situation, women must end it.
89
I'm afraid I have to agree about the excessive use of the word sorry, especially here in Britain by both men and women. Sorry can mean "excuse me" but probably the most used meaning is "get out of the way" followed by "I disagree with what you are saying so I am going to interrupt you". Another meaning much used by an employee of mine is "I'm late because I've been late every day for the past 6 months but I don't really care about getting here on time so I will mutter sorry just like every day." Brits aren't more polite because they are constantly muttering sorry. It's just meaningless background noise.
58
Exactly. For the several years I lived in the UK, expats joked that a British shopkeeper's "Can I help?" actually meant "Can I help to irritate you so much that you'll leave without touching any of my precious merchandise?" British politeness is fairly diabolical.
1
I'm sorry that you feel sorry for saying 'sorry'. Sorry.
1
Lets try to avoid emulating vices, the men are not doing it... we need to stop doing it?
Should be more like, lets provide the men with an example of how humans can relate better.
Should be more like, lets provide the men with an example of how humans can relate better.
5
Sorry, but the author is trying to fix what isn't broken.
As she points out, British men do this as well. When two people bump into each other on the street in London, both say sorry and move on, even if one person was rather clearly more at fault.
On rare occasions in crowded bumpy London you can see the alternative; a serious fight breaking out between assertive strangers in seconds. On the whole starting your conversations with "sorry" has a lot going for it. Even more so in places without gun control.
As she points out, British men do this as well. When two people bump into each other on the street in London, both say sorry and move on, even if one person was rather clearly more at fault.
On rare occasions in crowded bumpy London you can see the alternative; a serious fight breaking out between assertive strangers in seconds. On the whole starting your conversations with "sorry" has a lot going for it. Even more so in places without gun control.
4
Well, I use it in the sense of "I'm sorry, but were I to agree with you, we'd both be wrong." I see it as a way to soften the victory dance that follows.
Wait till you are a lilttle older. At some magical point, after a lifetime of "sorry"-ing, you will realize that you skip over the obligatory "sorry" and cut to the chase, saying straight out what it is you want and reasonably expect. And people will give it to you without a quibble. That's when you'll know you've reached full adulthood.
6
Politicians and political figures have the tendency to make similar, rather hollow apologies.
See: Jonathan Gruber, Anthony Weiner, Barack Obama.
Then there are those for whom an apology is like as dreaded disease, to be avoided at all costs...
See: Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare.
See: Jonathan Gruber, Anthony Weiner, Barack Obama.
Then there are those for whom an apology is like as dreaded disease, to be avoided at all costs...
See: Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare.
1
What about the phase "excuse me" instead of "I'm sorry". Just starting with that would be a great change.
1
I'm sorry but after the bit where you received your order "blanketed in bacon" this rendering it "inedible" it raised a question as to exactly what your thought processes might have been when you ordered it.
4
My female boss once told me I apologized too much - her advice was also "never apologize." I, for one, find this advice both repugnant and silly. There is no reason to carry oneself with so much ego and pride as to feel above apology. If this is a feminine behavior, it is one I am proud of. I see a willingness to apologize as a sign of strength.
128
Apologizing when you have done something wrong is not what this article is about. It is about the fact that many women start every opinion with an apology (it even happens here, where women start their comment with 'I'm sorry, but...').
People who never apologize are rude.
People who always apologize are doormats.
Lot of room in the middle, isn't there?
People who never apologize are rude.
People who always apologize are doormats.
Lot of room in the middle, isn't there?
2
I concur. And I ask the NYTimes to allow me to speak all of the time. I’m not saying the same ol’ same ol’ and it is offensive to them somehow. The comments police are offensive to me. They could give a hoot about truth, they care about their readership.
My 80 year old father has corrected me for years, when I apologize for situations you have just mentioned. We spoke of it Sunday.
We have a right to ask, say, require of others IMO and as the mother of sons as long as we do not belittle anyone in our way. Belittling is not power; it’s emotional hostage taking.
The pendulum does swing and to be clear without taking out men in general seems healthy. Otherwise we are just creating another inequity that will need rebalancing.
The martyr has the most power in an unhealthy situation/relationship. Having clarity and pausing for some, before speaking is key for me. Pausing breaks unwanted habits.
My 80 year old father has corrected me for years, when I apologize for situations you have just mentioned. We spoke of it Sunday.
We have a right to ask, say, require of others IMO and as the mother of sons as long as we do not belittle anyone in our way. Belittling is not power; it’s emotional hostage taking.
The pendulum does swing and to be clear without taking out men in general seems healthy. Otherwise we are just creating another inequity that will need rebalancing.
The martyr has the most power in an unhealthy situation/relationship. Having clarity and pausing for some, before speaking is key for me. Pausing breaks unwanted habits.
Every time we use words to mean other words we subvert their meanings and pervert the utility of language as a means of expression. We also reduce efficacy of our myriad words to join together for precision.
Women say "I'm sorry" because they don't want to "make trouble" and have an idea that femininity runs counter to having defensible boundaries. This fallacy creates a trap for anyone who subscribes to it, no one should apologize for wanting to be taken seriously.
However, the advice to never apologize is reckless and supports a growing lack of civility that seems to have heralded the new century. I apologize when I deem it necessary: I've bumped someone on the subway or forgot to send an email, hurt someone's feelings, etc. I don't apologize when someone else is misbehaving or I'm reeling in a colleague runs amok.
Apologize for being a jerk, not for calling one out.
Women say "I'm sorry" because they don't want to "make trouble" and have an idea that femininity runs counter to having defensible boundaries. This fallacy creates a trap for anyone who subscribes to it, no one should apologize for wanting to be taken seriously.
However, the advice to never apologize is reckless and supports a growing lack of civility that seems to have heralded the new century. I apologize when I deem it necessary: I've bumped someone on the subway or forgot to send an email, hurt someone's feelings, etc. I don't apologize when someone else is misbehaving or I'm reeling in a colleague runs amok.
Apologize for being a jerk, not for calling one out.
4
So are we now teaching women to talk and behave like men, for in order to be understood? Or are we rather just going to understand what women actually are saying?
This article points both directions. I can't quite figure out whether this article is misogynist or feminist. Belittling women for talking the way they do and telling them what they do wrong, and how they -should- be doing it instead... or telling them how to get equal rights.
Make up your mind. Sorry, not sorry.
Just say sorry when you mean it. Be direct. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. And if you don't mean it; shut up.
This article points both directions. I can't quite figure out whether this article is misogynist or feminist. Belittling women for talking the way they do and telling them what they do wrong, and how they -should- be doing it instead... or telling them how to get equal rights.
Make up your mind. Sorry, not sorry.
Just say sorry when you mean it. Be direct. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. And if you don't mean it; shut up.
7
Sorry, but you're reading too much into this.
Sorry is just a word, used to introduce an interruption. It's shorthand for, "I'm sorry to have to disrupt what you're doing so I can bring your attention to what I'm about to say." It's not meant as an apology; it's a turn-signal, indicating a change of direction.
Sorry is just a word, used to introduce an interruption. It's shorthand for, "I'm sorry to have to disrupt what you're doing so I can bring your attention to what I'm about to say." It's not meant as an apology; it's a turn-signal, indicating a change of direction.
256
Why not use the expression: Excuse me? to signal the same change of direction? Because you're not really sorry about what you want to say, the change in direction, are you? Though you might be sorry that you have to point out the obvious to the oblivious.
1
"Sorry but" deserves some consideration of its own, perhaps, as a kind of passive-aggressive entry to a contradiction which may or may not be courteous at all. (Yours is of the more courteous variety, it's true, but does rather directly to a curt diminution of the other's point.)
1
Not when an 18 year old girl says it exiting the elevator.
1
You apologized not because you didn't want to appear rude; you doubted your right to return food in a restaurant. Most people are uncomfortable doing this no matter what the circumstance. Trust me, I know from the reaction of dining mates, when I do it. When you're confident and empowered, you don't use the words "I'm sorry" unless you truly did some,thing wrong. I agree it's a knee jerk reaction for people to preface remarks with "I'm sorrry" and I often pick up friends and colleagues by asking "What are you sorry for?" for which they often have no reply.
6
"Never apologize and never explain -- it's a sign of weakness." -- John Wayne.
Ah John Wayne--my etitquette advisor, moral compass, and spiritual director.
1
I used to do this, too. (Full disclosure: I'm a man) It riled up everyone I knew, because the constant I'm-Sorrys obscured what I was actually saying, and led to frustration for whomever I was talking to, and for myself. It took two years -- seriously, two long years -- of therapy and practice to break the habit, and that was without the additional societal pressures and burdens that are constantly imposed on women.
1
Saying "sorry" is an affliction largely among women? Seriously? In my experience, it's pretty gender-neutral. While reading this article, I couldn't help but think of one of my female friends. I've never heard her say sorry once in her life, and her interactions with waiters and other service people are downright mortifying. Saying sorry (or "Excuse me, but..." or many other variants) is usually a sign of politeness, not one's sex.
5
Similarly, I once overheard a clergyman apologize to his teenage son. A real apology for his behavior, not a pro forma "sorry." I've also had a male librarian apologize to me. Maybe it's the men who go into non-macho occupations (e.g. the clergy, librarianship) who are most likely to apologize. They're not trying to be John Wayne, and most of them are not trying to be Mark Driscoll.
Ms. Crosley needs to frequent better restaurants.
Even high-powered women who have distinguished themselves mightily needed to pass through a male-dominated system in order to have their distinction acknowledged sufficiently to acquire the power they have acquired. Apologizing helps, because it creates the impression of subservience, which masks a rapacious will to dominate and often lets the wolf into the chickencoop.
The Chinese have an ancient culture, that even thousands of years ago was highly developed in terms of signals. Place within a hierarchy could be judged by the bodily signals one man would present to another, consisting of endless shakes and rattles -- far more nuanced than the mere bow of the head that younger cultures employed; or the use of an apology. Apologizing is merely an instinctive signal by women, and I've come to the conclusion that women often are at their most dangerous when they employ it, because you can expect it to be immediately followed by some request for a favor that will be used to enhance their position relative to yours.
Black widows cast webs into which their unwitting prey get trapped. Human females spin far more clever webs, though no less deadly.
Even high-powered women who have distinguished themselves mightily needed to pass through a male-dominated system in order to have their distinction acknowledged sufficiently to acquire the power they have acquired. Apologizing helps, because it creates the impression of subservience, which masks a rapacious will to dominate and often lets the wolf into the chickencoop.
The Chinese have an ancient culture, that even thousands of years ago was highly developed in terms of signals. Place within a hierarchy could be judged by the bodily signals one man would present to another, consisting of endless shakes and rattles -- far more nuanced than the mere bow of the head that younger cultures employed; or the use of an apology. Apologizing is merely an instinctive signal by women, and I've come to the conclusion that women often are at their most dangerous when they employ it, because you can expect it to be immediately followed by some request for a favor that will be used to enhance their position relative to yours.
Black widows cast webs into which their unwitting prey get trapped. Human females spin far more clever webs, though no less deadly.
As a nurse, I so often hear other nurses calling a physician for an order or to report information or a change of status on a patient. I cringe whenever the nurse begins the conversation with "I'm sorry to bother you Dr Jones but Mrs Smith is experiencing increased abdominal pain etc...."
I tell the nurse to not apologize to the physician. The conversation should go as follows: "Dr Jones, this is Jane at ABC hospital. I am caring for your patient Mrs Smith and I'd like to report that she is complaining of increased abdominal pain etc..."
Why the upfront apology? Did the nurse do anything wrong? No. Apologizing when nothing was done wrong is ridiculous. I am a very well mannered person and raised my two sons to stand up when an older person enters the room, shake hands upon introductions, hold a door for women AND men, etc. But saying sorry when having done nothing wrong minimizes the importance of saying it when an apology is really in order.
I tell the nurse to not apologize to the physician. The conversation should go as follows: "Dr Jones, this is Jane at ABC hospital. I am caring for your patient Mrs Smith and I'd like to report that she is complaining of increased abdominal pain etc..."
Why the upfront apology? Did the nurse do anything wrong? No. Apologizing when nothing was done wrong is ridiculous. I am a very well mannered person and raised my two sons to stand up when an older person enters the room, shake hands upon introductions, hold a door for women AND men, etc. But saying sorry when having done nothing wrong minimizes the importance of saying it when an apology is really in order.
7
Words mean different things in different contexts.
In this case, I don't see it as an acknowledgement by the nurse that s/he's doing anything wrong, but rather an acknowledgement that the doctor's activity is being interrupted for whatever reason, important or not. Or maybe the nurse is sorry that Mrs. Smith, Dr. Jones's patient, is experiencing increased abdominal pain.
Or maybe both.
In this case, I don't see it as an acknowledgement by the nurse that s/he's doing anything wrong, but rather an acknowledgement that the doctor's activity is being interrupted for whatever reason, important or not. Or maybe the nurse is sorry that Mrs. Smith, Dr. Jones's patient, is experiencing increased abdominal pain.
Or maybe both.
1
To some extent, we may be over thinking this. While I do think women feel forced to be meek, or perceived as meek, because society so abhors a strong and assertive woman (witness how abusively sexist the first campaign was against Hilary Clinton) the word "sorry" is often used less as an actual apology than a placeholder. It creeps into sentences like "like," the recently ubiquitous "so," and "kind of." It's now synonymous with "excuse me" when it is used as a way to get someone's attention, i.e. "Sorry, may I have some more coffee?"
1
"Sorry, may I have some more coffee?" Really?
I remember when we were first married my wife saying that she was "sorry" for this or that. Finally I asked what she was apologizing for and she explained the difference between "sorry" as an apology and "sorry" as an acknowledgement of an unfortunate circumstance. It had a totally different meaning! I thought she was talking in the first sense--I did something and I regret its consequences. But what she meant was--darn it, now its raining and we will have to get wet and I know you will be uncomfortable. Since I have learned that lesson over 25 years ago I have found it very useful.
6
For us CANADIANS, it's ingrained into out national lexicon.
1
A friend of mine, a guy, told me once to never apologize. It makes the apologizer appear weak and unworthy, he explained. Also was told by a dear lady that a person who says sorry all the time is one who grew up being abused - emotionally, physically or both. "Articulating exactly what we mean in it's place" is on point. Don't worry. Only the weirdest will think you've no right to express your feelings, including anger. Kudos!
1
Never apologize, not even when you've done wrong? That's what I call being a jerk.
Better advice would be, don't apologize for everything. Not don't apologize for anything.
Better advice would be, don't apologize for everything. Not don't apologize for anything.
I'm often struck by the constant "sorry's" by my fellow female tennis players. If they hit the ball off the court, or hit a hard shot at another player, or make an error, it's an automatic apology. I realize that this is not the case with all female tennis players (thank you Serena), but I've wondered whether certain women are uncomfortable with the competitiveness inherent in the game or simply apologizing for having a bad tennis day. A new linguistic phenomenon I notice among young men is "my bad" as an alternative to "I'm sorry". I guess this feels more comfortable for men. Should we bring it onto the court?
32
Language is such that words cannot always be taken at face value.
"I'm sorry, but that is not acceptable." Is shorthand for "I'm sorry that it has come to this but, as you have not realized it yourself, I now need to tell you that this is not acceptable." The author makes the mistake of assuming "I'm sorry" reflects an apology rather than simply a state of disappointment.
"I'm sorry, but that is not acceptable." Is shorthand for "I'm sorry that it has come to this but, as you have not realized it yourself, I now need to tell you that this is not acceptable." The author makes the mistake of assuming "I'm sorry" reflects an apology rather than simply a state of disappointment.
16
Sometimes sorry is used as a shorthand for expressing sympathy for perceived pain, especially for imposing on the listener - sorry for the extra work, your delay, or interrupting.
10
Unwashed greens aside, going back to interrupt what was going on in the kitchen was both uncouth and uncalled for--distracting the chef from running dinner service just because of a server's miscommunication.
5
Perhaps she didn't want to eat her third plate of food with her hands.
I think that we use this phrase in three different ways.
1. "I'm sorry to interrupt, but can you sign this now? It's due today." In this case, it means "Excuse me."
2. I step on someone's foot and say "I'm sorry". A genuine apology.
3. "I am sorry your pet died."--Unless I'm responsible for the pet's demise, this means "I regret that your pet died" but "I'm sorry" sounds gentler.
1. "I'm sorry to interrupt, but can you sign this now? It's due today." In this case, it means "Excuse me."
2. I step on someone's foot and say "I'm sorry". A genuine apology.
3. "I am sorry your pet died."--Unless I'm responsible for the pet's demise, this means "I regret that your pet died" but "I'm sorry" sounds gentler.
17
None of these three items has anything to do with what the article is about.
I was completely unaware that we women apologize so often. But then I realize I have never heard them complain too much either, re noise, rudeness, dissatisfied restaurant servings, etc. Perhaps that's another trait we should deal with, when dissatisfied,learn to voice that dissatisfaction or rudeness.
2
Sure you are in NYC, where complaining is an art form for both sexes and everyone in between?
I worked for an executive level woman that said "sorry" about as often as the Knicks win basketball games.
2
And then there those (men and women) who never apologize, admit they are in the wrong, or say "I'm sorry."
Or say
"I'm sorry you...." instead of "I'm sorry I....."
Or say
"I'm sorry you...." instead of "I'm sorry I....."
7
Yes, please stop apologizing for existing. and take all those stupid "sorry!"'s out of movie scripts! It's an epidemic.
3
Sorry, but you're taking the word too literally. In most cases, it's just filler. And, that's not such a bad thing. Go to London and ride the Underground at a busy time, you'll hear lots of "sorry" from everyone, men and women, young and old, as they navigate for space on the trains. So, maybe we're evolving and using the word similarly. Good. Men should use it just as women do.
12
There is nothing wrong with saying Sorry whether one is a woman or a man. It's a subtle way of defusing what might otherwise develop into an explosive situation. Perhaps more importantly, I would also like to hear Americans--men as well as women--saying Please and Thank You. These two salutations appear to be all but absent, however, from the American lexicon. Gimme this or Gimme that aren't, sad to say. By any definition, this is outright rudeness, not to say ignorance.
10
Hear, hear. I once tried to count the number of times I said "I'm sorry" in a single day and couldn't keep up with the flow of regret coming from my lips. I think shock treatment will be necessary in my case, but I'm all for ditching the sorries. Thanks for a great column.
123
I would rather hear "sorry" than a "no problem" to my "thank you".
8
One thing I've never understood is why "no problem" is such a hated rejoinder. Children aren't taught by their parents to say "no problem," so that and other less frequent replies must arise out of a sincere impulse to be courteous.
Besides, I have never - not once - heard anyone say "no problem" as a sarcastic way of demanding thanks.
Can anyone explain what the problem is with "no problem"?
Besides, I have never - not once - heard anyone say "no problem" as a sarcastic way of demanding thanks.
Can anyone explain what the problem is with "no problem"?
Funny. When a woman starts out with a, "Sorry." I simply say, "No you're not."
1
I wish there was a thumbs down I could give for that response. There are multiple meanings of "sorry," and your misogyny makes you assume that the woman is being manipulative an insincere. How about listening first?
1
I remember a board game called "Sorry!". The game had nothing to do with apologizing.
It was a really sorry excuse for a game.
It was a really sorry excuse for a game.
1
You've hit me on two levels. One: If there is one thing I cannot stand is grit in my salad. Two: When women apologize to me for needed to get up on a plane to go to the bathroom or get around me or something I always suggest that they not need to, and I say that it's okay what they are doing. But one thing I will not do is call attention to bad food in a restaurant. I will never send something back. I just leave it and order something I know is foolproof or I'll just think of starving people and eat it (once, in a very famous and expensive restaurant I couldn't believe the menu included "quail over succotash" and couldn't help myself from ordering it out of curiosity. I ate it, but a pile of garbage you'd throw out).
3
I think that in the same way that uptalking can be used as a coercive tactic by someone who is uncomfortable making a direct statement, peppering one's surroundings with "sorry" is used to try to mitigate a general lack of confidence.
My three women colleagues that with me comprise our office's administrative support team have this "sorry" affliction. They say "sorry" when they pass in the hallway. "Sorry" before they ask a question. "Sorry" when they hand out a copy of a memo. "Sorry" for posting vacation days. It is a completely different tone of "sorry" from the one they use to preface a defensive remark.
Hearing the word so often does make me wonder if I'm doing something wrong... by taking up the same amount of space they do in the hallway, by asking questions, by doing the various interactive tasks that make up my job, by using the vacation days I have earned. It's contagious and sometimes a "sorry" will slip from my mouth where I would have made a direct statement or said nothing before. I do not recall ever hearing one of our man colleagues utter a misplaced "sorry".
I suspect this may be a regionalism because, as a transplant from a southern state, I had never witnessed the use of "sorry" so superfluously until I moved to the northeast. (I also learned here that my previous habit of expressing respect to my professional superiors with a "Sir" or "Ma'am" was well received by the recipients of the former and terribly offensive to the recipients of the latter.)
My three women colleagues that with me comprise our office's administrative support team have this "sorry" affliction. They say "sorry" when they pass in the hallway. "Sorry" before they ask a question. "Sorry" when they hand out a copy of a memo. "Sorry" for posting vacation days. It is a completely different tone of "sorry" from the one they use to preface a defensive remark.
Hearing the word so often does make me wonder if I'm doing something wrong... by taking up the same amount of space they do in the hallway, by asking questions, by doing the various interactive tasks that make up my job, by using the vacation days I have earned. It's contagious and sometimes a "sorry" will slip from my mouth where I would have made a direct statement or said nothing before. I do not recall ever hearing one of our man colleagues utter a misplaced "sorry".
I suspect this may be a regionalism because, as a transplant from a southern state, I had never witnessed the use of "sorry" so superfluously until I moved to the northeast. (I also learned here that my previous habit of expressing respect to my professional superiors with a "Sir" or "Ma'am" was well received by the recipients of the former and terribly offensive to the recipients of the latter.)
1
I often say "Pardon me" or "Excuse me" - when starting off question where others of either gender - would say "(I'm) sorry". Perhaps the phrases I use seem a bit formal and less popular. Regardless, when we often complain people are rude and abrupt, I can thing off less offensive things than hearing and "apology" within a question or comment.
Incidentally, many of the cited examples of inconsiderate subway behavior can be attributed to men and women; the latter in particular take up standing room from their seats by extending a crossed leg into the aisle.
Incidentally, many of the cited examples of inconsiderate subway behavior can be attributed to men and women; the latter in particular take up standing room from their seats by extending a crossed leg into the aisle.
1
My sister is an apologizer for everything. She must say it 50 times a day, and it drives me insane. Almost every question she asks is preceded by, "I'm sorry." I sit in meetings almost every day and listen to women apologize over and over. It's not as ridiculous as the Amy Schumer video, but almost. I am very conscious of not using the expression unless I have truly done something for which I should apologize. I refuse to apologize just because I exist in the world.
11
This is called the passive-aggressive sorry, and it makes the speaker sound like a shrew. Don't do this.
3
I am definitely guilty of saying I'm sorry - mostly at work, as do other women in my office. I recently told my work-study student to stop saying it when she asks me a question. I've also gotten it as a passive aggressive statement of "I'm sorry, is there is a problem? What don't you understand?"
Young professional women, including myself, need to learn that we can be assertive without apologizing for it, or up-talking.
Young professional women, including myself, need to learn that we can be assertive without apologizing for it, or up-talking.
99
I and my colleagues also spent a long time telling a student not to apologize regularly. Just say what you mean. Eventually, she got the message.
As a petite woman, I was surprised that there was no consideration of the use of "I'm sorry" to convey "please don't get mad and hurt me".
283
Exactly. Men are afraid of being laughed at; women are afraid of being killed.
7
Even "large" women feel that way. ALL WOMEN SOMETIMES FEEL THAT WAY no matter their "size".
5
Exactly!
2
Years ago I was in a mommy and me group. A truly naughty little two year old boy did something mean to another child. I told "Dylan" that he needed to apologize. His mother rushed over and explained to me that he did not know the meaning of the phrase, thus should not be asked to say it. I told her that apology becomes a habit, a lifelong consideration of others. I told her that my son was able to readily apologize and understand the meaning because he had practice doing so. She sniffed and walked away. I am quite sure her son is one of the insufferable young people we all suffer with in modern times. On the other hand, my son (19)is universally praised and appreciated for his good manners and consideration. Which child would the author rather see leading us into the future? My money is on the one who can say "I'm sorry." Sorry, I just don't get the point of this article.
15
The article is SPECIFICALLY talking about WOMEN'S overuse of "sorry" and addresses the fact that many if not most men rarely feel the need to. Good for you for teaching your son that awareness.
1
Can't believe the people who think this issue isn't important. When women apologize constantly - and for entirely reasonable requests - it sends the message that they are second-class citizens whose needs aren't important.
Doubly so when they apologize instead of getting angry at overt mistreatment.
Pointless, ingratiating apologies are what low-status people use to make sure they don't offend higher-status people.
Yeah, maybe our society needs more apologies, but from the oppressors, not the oppressed.
Doubly so when they apologize instead of getting angry at overt mistreatment.
Pointless, ingratiating apologies are what low-status people use to make sure they don't offend higher-status people.
Yeah, maybe our society needs more apologies, but from the oppressors, not the oppressed.
502
But 'the oppressors' are the mothers of these women, who taught them to apologize for existing from the time they were toddlers.
Sometimes, women's problems are their own, not because of 'The Patriarchy'.
Sometimes, women's problems are their own, not because of 'The Patriarchy'.
Or it sends the message that women are first class citizens by virtue of being polite and graceful. You are advocating a race to the bottom for behavior.
And, who would the oppressors be in this case? As a counter point, I might mention that during my 30 years in the oil and gas industry, numerous occasions came up when something had gone wrong, and people gathered to figure out what to do. Invariably I found it helpful to say "this is my fault" aka "I'm sorry" upfront, regardless of how true that was. Basically, because it shifted everyone's attention to fixing the problem rather than searching for the guilty. "I'm sorry" can be powerful (and not just to us low status folks) when used properly.
Not sure about this. I use the term "I'm sorry" frequently when I am asking someone to do or not do something, even if they clearly are wrong (blocking a driveway, loud music at 3am, etc. I am asking them to change their behavior, and for me an apologetic request works better than demanding or complaining, and makes it easier for them to agree to my request without admitting they are wrong. However, the persistence to follow through with the request is the key attitude, and that is a different personality trait. "I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but if you don't do X I will need to call the police to help resolve this"
5
Years ago, I worked for a well-bred Southern gentleman who taught me to say "Thank you so much" to everyone after any and all requests/rejections/contradictions, etc. as a way of disarming them. It worked and I still do it.
I think "I'm sorry", as used in the examples in the article, serves the same purpose.
I think "I'm sorry", as used in the examples in the article, serves the same purpose.
164
I find it patronizing when someone always says I'm sorry. People shouldn't say unless they truly something to be sorry for.
Nice.. But how to change the intro line? Maybe "I would so appreciate it if..."?
This works for my successful sister. She looks them in the eye with a big, confident smile when she says it.
"Women’s extreme prostration"? Come on. You did not apologize to the busboy for your dietary restrictions. You apologized for inconveniencing him - a perfectly polite form of behavior.
With all of the frequent incivility in today's American society, you have it exactly backward. Your article should more properly be titled, "Why American Men Don't Apologize Enough."
By the way, you should note that here are plenty of women out there who also need basic lessons in etiquette.
With all of the frequent incivility in today's American society, you have it exactly backward. Your article should more properly be titled, "Why American Men Don't Apologize Enough."
By the way, you should note that here are plenty of women out there who also need basic lessons in etiquette.
10
You urgently should stop apogizing. The preamble of apology for women continues the cycle to other younger women and most importantly women are constantly battling ignorance from all corners that we certainly don't need women's help in proving the point that women should remain demure and in a genuflect position. If you can recognize it it in yourself then you're able to stop yourself.
1
The usage of "manspreading" here is as extremely offensive as it is on NYC subways. You sound a lot like a radical feminist men-hater when you use such words. If you don't understand why then you are so blinded by sexist bigotry it is hopeless. No wonder that you are attacking something that other civilized cultures see as good manners.
1
Ms. Crosley doesn't give a single sentence of consideration to Occam's razor: "Sorry" is a close but imperfect synonym for "pardon," something you're supposed to say to get someone's attention -- a waiter's, maybe -- when you're not already mid-conversation. "Pardon" has a British or international flavor, and Americans generally prefer "sorry," but the word has all kind of connotations that "pardon" does not. It does not make sense to impute the full, broad meaning of the word "sorry" to everyone who uses it as a functional synonym for "pardon."
This isn't a gender issue. It's a language issue. I've seen virtually the same article countless times bemoaning the way "no problem" has taken over for "you're welcome." But I guess armchair psychology is a lot more fun than semantics.
This isn't a gender issue. It's a language issue. I've seen virtually the same article countless times bemoaning the way "no problem" has taken over for "you're welcome." But I guess armchair psychology is a lot more fun than semantics.
7
I happen to like it when people (both women and men) soften argumentative statements or complaints with an initial "I'm sorry, but…" It is a matter of politeness, a way of delivering unpleasant information without being aggressively confrontational, not a sign of diminished self-confidence. I don't dispute the gender disparity observed by the author, but in my opinion the solution is not for women to stop saying "I'm sorry" so much, but rather for men to start saying it more. Our increasingly confrontational and rude culture could use an infusion of consideration and politeness.
7
I disagree with the commentors explaining that saying "sorry" is acceptable. If you mean to say "excuse me".....then say that. But consider who you are usually apologizing to.....someone whose role or job is to serve or help you....why start a verbal relationship with them with an apology?
As far as women using it....just stop. Use the appropriate words for what you want or demand or need....and don't confuse your employees or waiters or barristas by inferring that you are a screwball asking a huge favor from them.
As far as women using it....just stop. Use the appropriate words for what you want or demand or need....and don't confuse your employees or waiters or barristas by inferring that you are a screwball asking a huge favor from them.
9
Is "excuse me" really any different from "sorry"? Both seem to come from a position of inferiority.
as a native nyc-er, i've found the rudest pushiest meanest folk on the subway to be young women: they refuse to move to the center of the train, they push their bags (purposefully, it seems) into other people and they never base themselves to acknowledge those around them. the uttering of "sorry" is never heard from this crowd.
according to this essay, i should be thrilled by the advancement of my sex (but i'm too distracted by my non-advancement into the n train on sad monday mornings, sorry)
according to this essay, i should be thrilled by the advancement of my sex (but i'm too distracted by my non-advancement into the n train on sad monday mornings, sorry)
4
You made a lot of very valid points, especially about the passive-aggressiveness.
You mentioned the British man in passing. Writing as someone who has an American who has lived in England and is to married an Englishman, the apology is definitely overused on a day-to-day basis to the point where it is a national stereotype and joke.
But it is amazing how, for some people, it is never used when the situation is actually really necessary or the apology is sarcastic or passive-aggressive. So you are constantly reading between the lines regarding whether the "sorry" is genuine, and the overuse of the word is rendered hollow.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
You mentioned the British man in passing. Writing as someone who has an American who has lived in England and is to married an Englishman, the apology is definitely overused on a day-to-day basis to the point where it is a national stereotype and joke.
But it is amazing how, for some people, it is never used when the situation is actually really necessary or the apology is sarcastic or passive-aggressive. So you are constantly reading between the lines regarding whether the "sorry" is genuine, and the overuse of the word is rendered hollow.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
5
It's a very interesting and telling point: we initialize what we say with an apolog to get our point across without hopefully, seeming, let alone being pushy, arrogant, or combative. Still, what we say after "sorry" may have some validity, even some urgency. Now I know why a friend of mine always says, "Don't be sorry." The problem is not what you say -as long as you are open to dialogue, respectful and tactful- its knowing that you don't have any control over how the other person will react, or respond to what you say.
A similar self-effacing behavior of women is ending statements with a rising intonation as though asking a question. This speech pattern is particularly annoying when statement after statement is uttered as a question, as though the speaker didn't have the right to assert herself or was apologizing making a declarative statement.
17
Interesting article on a day when Republican candidates are apologizing for taking money from the "wrong people." Generally, people don't apologize unless they get "caught" saying, or doing, something unacceptable.
2
What world is this where women say they are sorry superflously and more than men? Sorry, it's not my world!
35
Keith...you are Canadian. We all apologize here!
Why is this a NYT pick for a comment?
A lot of women have a problem of being attracted to men who are abusive toward them.
"Sorry" is many things for women. It deflects aggression and criticism. It minimizes the space we take up in the world. It reflects our social responsibility for keeping relationships smooth. "Sorry" is a behavior of powerlessness - current or historical - and we would do ourselves a favor to only say it when we have done something we really should apologize for.
7
I find that It is always to your advantage to be polite even when unnecessary, it is time well invested. It is downright genius!
Male or Female, even if you posses the skills to win a confrontation swiftly and decisively, politeness will save you a lot of time, energy, injury, aggravation, money, jail time, etc...
Male or Female, even if you posses the skills to win a confrontation swiftly and decisively, politeness will save you a lot of time, energy, injury, aggravation, money, jail time, etc...
4
I feel the unwelcome urge to apologize for your distress, but I'll pass. I keep hearing the voice of my drill sergeant from long ago demanding that I change it rather than apologize for it, that I explain it if I'm asked rather than make excuses. Mostly I learned how to do it right myself, and what to expect of others.
It's all technique, like pulling off a band-aid! Get to the point - "this salad is dirty" - and move on. You don't have to be belligerent or (God forbid) whinny, never personalize it - "just like you" - and know what you want. Eye contact and a temperate voice is important. The waiter doesn't need to be your friend, only to do his job right.
And look over the new salad carefully before proceeding.
It's all technique, like pulling off a band-aid! Get to the point - "this salad is dirty" - and move on. You don't have to be belligerent or (God forbid) whinny, never personalize it - "just like you" - and know what you want. Eye contact and a temperate voice is important. The waiter doesn't need to be your friend, only to do his job right.
And look over the new salad carefully before proceeding.
3
Women are usually labeled with the "B" term if they are assertive or aggressive without the preface of "sorry".
Actually I believe it was John Wayne, not Julia Child that said don't apologize, its a sign of weakness.
1
And Mitt Romney made a campaign point of that.
Saying "I'm sorry" is not always the same thing as saying "I apologize."
264
But it is usually a representation of perceived power difference.
1
Not with narrowed eyes and a snarl, no, it is not the same.
To me, "sorry" is used to open a conversation in which something unpleasant is going to be said. It functions as a warning that there will be unpleasantness breaking routine, but it is necessary to say it. It is in itself affirmative. It does not in any way mean "I apologize for what I am about to say because its wrong to say it or because it will make you uncomfortable." It is not self-effacing. It is a tool used to prevent overt anger and controversy, to keep the recipients ego unbruised and to get the result one wants. To me, "sorry" is not an intense word at all...falling far short of "I apologize" or "So very sorry". All I can conclude from this article is that clearly there is a communication disconnect going on as our language evolves.
That being said, I want to address the writer's comment that the scenario in which women do elbows-out personal grooming is ridiculously unrealistic. That women are so self-efacing we reduce our personal space on the subway. Sorry, but I intensely disagree. I've often seen women in the subway doing their makeup, their hair, even clipping their nails. They put their shopping bags on seats next to them. Women grab space, all the time. On the most recent subway ride I took, there were three separate long haired women standing near me in a very crowded car who kept reaching back and flinging their hair behind them. One kept forming it into a ponytail and then letting it go. Elbows out all the way.
That being said, I want to address the writer's comment that the scenario in which women do elbows-out personal grooming is ridiculously unrealistic. That women are so self-efacing we reduce our personal space on the subway. Sorry, but I intensely disagree. I've often seen women in the subway doing their makeup, their hair, even clipping their nails. They put their shopping bags on seats next to them. Women grab space, all the time. On the most recent subway ride I took, there were three separate long haired women standing near me in a very crowded car who kept reaching back and flinging their hair behind them. One kept forming it into a ponytail and then letting it go. Elbows out all the way.
7
Yes, perfectly put---"sorry" opens a conversation in which something unpleasant is about to be said. "I'm sorry to tell you this, but . . . "
1
'...It is a tool used to prevent overt anger and controversy, to keep the recipients ego unbruised and to get the result one wants...'
While some professions may reward this kind of behavior, most do not, as it comes off as insincere, passive aggressive, and manipulative.
While some professions may reward this kind of behavior, most do not, as it comes off as insincere, passive aggressive, and manipulative.
I agree with this piece but also think that women ARE sorry that they have to subject some other harassed worker to the same kind of "take care of me" demands that they are so often subjected to, even far up the professional food chain.
7
You're right -- the empathy and response to "take care of me" behind the high concentration of apologies is embedded in many women. It's hard to say how much of that empathy is biology-based and how much of it is conditioned in families and society at-large. I sense an increase in efforts to condition this response in the people (both men and women) making demands of those who show signs of empathy.
My experiences with the word 'sorry' are different. I live in this country but I'm not from here. When I hear 'sorry' or 'excuse me' - especially in stores and offices - it is often meant as: 'go out of my way'. It's mostly women saying it and they even don't look at me. I find this behavior very rude and self-centered/ignorant.
1
I believe the habit of saying "I'm sorry" when one has inserted something potentially controversial into a conversation, and which is often followed with a childish giggle, is a weak attempt to avoid confrontation. It is akin to the canine body language of head-bowing which tells other canines, "Just playing. Don't take me seriously."
I agree wholeheartedly with the author of this piece. I don't take seriously people who downplay their own opinions when those statements are prefaced with "I'm sorry." Sorry for what? Thinking differently than others? Having an original thought worth stating?
Quit minimizing your views with apologies.
I agree wholeheartedly with the author of this piece. I don't take seriously people who downplay their own opinions when those statements are prefaced with "I'm sorry." Sorry for what? Thinking differently than others? Having an original thought worth stating?
Quit minimizing your views with apologies.
7
Sorry for the much-needed clarification: Washing lettuce removes the SOIL it was grown in....DIRT is what is what you'll find under your finger nails.
1
When I come in from working in the garden, I have dirt all over me...my hands are dirty, my shoes are dirty. Nothing is "soily."
1
"Sorry" seems to be the hardest word...
4
it's funny. the comments show pretty vividly that everyone is thinking all sorts of different things all the time when they say and do things that read the same. the "sorry" is usually not literal, it's a sound that's used mainly to convey a tone. the tone indicates a state of being, or a neurosis, or a principle. attempts to quantify it are like quantifying music. in other words, "sorry" is part of the music of our lives. whenever someone says, "well i never met anyone who...", my first thought is, well they've obviously never met me.
4
Yes!!
1
Yes, after so many years in the corporate world, I have to agree with you completely: males take up as much physical as emotional space as they wish for, whilst we females are expected to "accommodate" and say "sorry". It is annoying to say the least. Let us though be fair - nowadays, males and females alike are in general aloof and oblivious of anything except for their own selves. Maybe if we had less of a relationship with screens and more of one with the actual world, basic good manners would be considered with more attention ? Food for thought...
140
'...whilst we females are expected to "accommodate" and say "sorry"...'
What is annoying, to say the least, is that so many women buy into this paradigm, thereby perpetuating it.
What is annoying, to say the least, is that so many women buy into this paradigm, thereby perpetuating it.
There are more women in the world and good manners is one reason. They don't kill each other like men do and because they say "sorry" they can get on with the important things.
Women are smarter, as a rule than men. Since they get all the brains it seems only fair that they be nicer than us men, still trying to crawl out of the paleolithic dust and muck.
Women are smarter, as a rule than men. Since they get all the brains it seems only fair that they be nicer than us men, still trying to crawl out of the paleolithic dust and muck.
The way I see it is its an unconscious expression designed to maintain a light level of "moral superiority" in a dialogue exchange. It is is technically an imposition similar to the way they use their 4 favorite words which are:" Good, like, happy, and special". To me, although I'm not a doctor, these are a very light form of neurosis, the very tip of the iceberg of OCD. Defense mechanism and control mechanisms, which are not psychotic or maniacal, just kind of normal for most females.
1
Oh yes! Well said. And for us, and the Canadians (see comment below), what to say instead? Excuse me, but ... . Or nothing, if a softener truly isn't needed. As for yelling across the alley at 3am, Surely HeyYouGuys ought todo it. Better yet, Hey Y'all! Cheers!
I say sorry quite a lot. And much more than my wife says it to me. Often I say it as a way of saying that while I don't agree with what we're talking about, I am "sorry" that you feel a certain way. It's a way of acknowledging someone's feelings and validating them. Arguing that women say sorry too much, well, you must not live in New York city. I am curious about that dish the writer ordered with the bacon; I find it hard to believe that you would have mistakenly ordered a dish with that much bacon on it without it saying so in the menu. It reminds me of the time a woman at a restaurant I worked at many years ago who ordered an Alligator Po'h boy and was surprised when we served her...wait for it... alligator!
2
Sorry ... but it comes off as passive-aggressive because it IS passive-aggression.
4
Isn't the person just saying "sorry I don't like your music so please turn it down?"
"Sorry it is my problem but would you mind ..."
"Sorry it is my problem but would you mind ..."
When I open my window at 3 a.m. to tell my neighbors to keep it down they'd be lucky to get an "I'm sorry." When sleep deprived, expletives seem to trump genteel manners. Sorry.
1
As a female, I use ""I'm sorry" to indicate I'm not looking for a confrontation over what I'm about to say. It is a gesture of politeness and I usually smile a little when I say it. This relaxes both parties so we can deal with the issue. Power to the sayers of "I'm sorry" or "excuse me please" They are the peacemakers of the world.
401
'...As a female, I use ""I'm sorry" to indicate I'm not looking for a confrontation over what I'm about to say...'
It is manipulative.
And often confrontation is a good thing, as without it, nothing gets done.
It is manipulative.
And often confrontation is a good thing, as without it, nothing gets done.
1
I agree with you; it's a calm way to start a possibly difficult confrontation. If men are lauded for their inability to start a conversation as such, it may explain the current state of affairs on many levels.
When a woman says she's sorry to me for nothing, I feel anything but relaxed. I feel put upon, as though it's then my job to reassure her. This isn't what we women fought for in Seventies and Eighties Feminism. We fought for women giving themselves self-worth.
1
As a woman physician I point this out to women all the time! Playing mixed doubles on the tennis court you will hear women “I’m sorry for every missed ball or missed signal.” “I’m sorry, I’m sorry--I’M SORRY FOR BEING ALIVE!”
I’M SORRY that I’m not the perfect wife. I’m sorry I can’t cook like Julia Child. I’m sorry that I make more money than you! (An existential crisis if I ever saw one!) I’m sorry that I don’t have thigh gap...or look like a Super Model. I’m sorry the house is a mess!
I make a point of complimenting both men and women on their clothes. Women work hard to look nice...and when I compliment them they fall all over themselves with “This old thing? Oh I got it on sale” then every once, “Thank you!” And I will bring it up. (I’m a woman) “Why do we apologize EVERY TIME!” Would a man apologize? Never. Is it that we aren’t worth wearing something nice so we have to use a qualifier--old, out of fashion, got it on sale?
I’ve noticed this for the last 30 years and men NEVER, NEVER say I’m sorry.
Women try to keep peace in the home to the point they will take the blame for EVERYTHING. It’s also saves lives...Most men are much bigger than women! Men have such fragile egos and women just take the abuse and move on.
Our entire lives we are told we are second class drilled into us. Don’t win. Don’t be the smartest. BUT be the cutest, the prettiest. The sweetest. I did a favor for a colleague and he called me “sweet.” I said I NEVER been called sweet!
I’M SORRY that I’m not the perfect wife. I’m sorry I can’t cook like Julia Child. I’m sorry that I make more money than you! (An existential crisis if I ever saw one!) I’m sorry that I don’t have thigh gap...or look like a Super Model. I’m sorry the house is a mess!
I make a point of complimenting both men and women on their clothes. Women work hard to look nice...and when I compliment them they fall all over themselves with “This old thing? Oh I got it on sale” then every once, “Thank you!” And I will bring it up. (I’m a woman) “Why do we apologize EVERY TIME!” Would a man apologize? Never. Is it that we aren’t worth wearing something nice so we have to use a qualifier--old, out of fashion, got it on sale?
I’ve noticed this for the last 30 years and men NEVER, NEVER say I’m sorry.
Women try to keep peace in the home to the point they will take the blame for EVERYTHING. It’s also saves lives...Most men are much bigger than women! Men have such fragile egos and women just take the abuse and move on.
Our entire lives we are told we are second class drilled into us. Don’t win. Don’t be the smartest. BUT be the cutest, the prettiest. The sweetest. I did a favor for a colleague and he called me “sweet.” I said I NEVER been called sweet!
397
"men NEVER NEVER say I'm sorry."
You should accompany me on my daily rounds. People of both sexes, usually younger adults use the S-word when they brush near me (I usually say "Excuse me"). Often they leave off the "I'm."
Sorry you're not meeting a better class of men.
You should accompany me on my daily rounds. People of both sexes, usually younger adults use the S-word when they brush near me (I usually say "Excuse me"). Often they leave off the "I'm."
Sorry you're not meeting a better class of men.
1
I am a male and I say I'm sorry all the time. For men it is more about self-confidence though, and signals a lack of masculinity to men and women.
Way to generalize.
I said "I'm sorry" way more than my wife did when we first met. For example, she was driving my car and hit a lamp post and knocked the driver side mirror off the car. All I received was an "oops." I removed the old mirror, bought, installed, and repainted a new one.
I think she fits a certain definition of self-centeredness. Over the last two years, I've started taking her cue, become more self-centered, and have stopped saying it.
Now, of course, we both don't say sorry. And the relationship is worse off.
Not that I'm sorry.
I said "I'm sorry" way more than my wife did when we first met. For example, she was driving my car and hit a lamp post and knocked the driver side mirror off the car. All I received was an "oops." I removed the old mirror, bought, installed, and repainted a new one.
I think she fits a certain definition of self-centeredness. Over the last two years, I've started taking her cue, become more self-centered, and have stopped saying it.
Now, of course, we both don't say sorry. And the relationship is worse off.
Not that I'm sorry.
1
I see incessant apologizing by women as an internalized backlash to our (perceived) increasing social power.
Women can now apply for virtually any job (no more segregated ads, "Help Wanted--Male"). Equal pay for equal work is the law (though each infraction arrives with automatic denials that infractions occur). Some women are CEOs. Females can even run for President.
Many men appear absolutely terrified of any evidence of female power, and a frightened man can be dangerous in so very many ways.
Before most women dared to assert themselves outside the traditional female sphere, Marilyn Monroe's voluptuousness was the standard of beauty. Several decades later, the more power a woman aspires to, the more desperate she is to fit into clothing sizes labeled "zero" or even a minus number. The incidence of anorexia keeps rising.
It's as though many women hope to minimize themselves by physically shrinking and verbally apologizing, to duck the brutal payback from men that each new female success seems to make more likely.
Women can now apply for virtually any job (no more segregated ads, "Help Wanted--Male"). Equal pay for equal work is the law (though each infraction arrives with automatic denials that infractions occur). Some women are CEOs. Females can even run for President.
Many men appear absolutely terrified of any evidence of female power, and a frightened man can be dangerous in so very many ways.
Before most women dared to assert themselves outside the traditional female sphere, Marilyn Monroe's voluptuousness was the standard of beauty. Several decades later, the more power a woman aspires to, the more desperate she is to fit into clothing sizes labeled "zero" or even a minus number. The incidence of anorexia keeps rising.
It's as though many women hope to minimize themselves by physically shrinking and verbally apologizing, to duck the brutal payback from men that each new female success seems to make more likely.
6
• Somehow, as we grew into adults, “sorry” became an entry point to basic affirmative sentences.
Months back there was an editorial cartoon in the Halifax Chronicle Herald depicting a Canadian war plane bombing ISIS in Syria, on the bombs the word 'sorry'. The jihadists below says "They must be Canadian."
"Sorry" is a simple common courtesy. Come to Canada to be polite!
Months back there was an editorial cartoon in the Halifax Chronicle Herald depicting a Canadian war plane bombing ISIS in Syria, on the bombs the word 'sorry'. The jihadists below says "They must be Canadian."
"Sorry" is a simple common courtesy. Come to Canada to be polite!
18
Sorry, but we Canadians do not apologize too much ... https://dcmontreal.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/sorry-but-we-canadians-do-no...
1
Yes, but did the restaurant say Sorry for the dirty salad, the unannounced bacon, the unavailable waiter? Our apologies are actually requests for apologies from others, apologies that in these narcissistic times rarely arrive on cue, as needed, or ever.
2
I urge everyone, women and men, when in a similar situation to yours in a restaurant, to apologize as you did when you told the server about sand in the salad. Otherwise, I have to tell you, that there are some cooks, maybe not a large proportion of all cooks, but still many, who will have put nastier, less noticeable stuff than sand in the salad they send back to you.(After all, that there was sand in that salad is evidence the cook isn't conscientious, so there is a somewhat increased probability that he or she is not a good person.) In addition, be sure to tip well. This is reality, you have to play defense when you eat out.
1
When I waited tables for some time a long time ago, it was almost unheard of to engage in this behavior. I remember this happening only once, over a period of several years, when an abusive customer seemed to toy with the server. Since when did restaurants start to skew for sociopaths in hiring?
You seem to think you are apologizing for the problem. You aren't. You are apologizing for interrupting someone when they are doing something else, which is the polite thing to do. Don't overthink this: people should be polite, and the fact that most men aren't doesn't mean that their behavior should be normative.
13
You've nailed it! Thanks. I wonder why many others (the author and many commenters) seem so oblivious to the obvious role played by this little, and considerate gesture. There are many ways in which women (and other oppressed people) derogate their own dignity, but being polite - even if using it ironically - isn't one of them. In fact, using it ironically is a useful weapon of retaliation (whether the victim feels deserving of it or not). Call it "passive aggressive" if you will. But an effective way to get the point across, and not an apology at all!
1
Typical of an article stereotyping women, the argument is perhaps half right.
I never forgot seeing very frail older woman at the grocery store deli ordering a half pound of this and a quarter pound of that. Each time the cranky post-adolescent behind the counter asked her what she wanted, she prefaced her request with a timid "sorry, but could I have...." With each request, the deli worker became more surly and acted out by sighing, slamming the meat back in the case or on the cutter. So sometimes being hesitant and unnecessarily subservient only brings out more aggression in others, especially those miserable souls who never miss an opportunity to make someone else feel inferior and badly.
On the other hand, lots of cultures have little ways of trying not to appear rude, as the author mentioned about the British. On many an Italian bus or train, you experience a lot of elbowing and pushing past you accompanied by an aggressive "Scusi, Scusi!" I think in the U.S. we use "Excuse me" said in an assertive rather than defensive manner when trying to advance our position.
But I think many women who appear apologetic by saying "Sorry, but..., before making a firm request are more concerned about not appearing to offend the other in the hopes of eliciting the other persons' cooperation rather than upping their aggression level. Saying sorry or excuse me really does not take up much airtime.
Call it diplomacy, and relationships in this country surely could use more of that.
I never forgot seeing very frail older woman at the grocery store deli ordering a half pound of this and a quarter pound of that. Each time the cranky post-adolescent behind the counter asked her what she wanted, she prefaced her request with a timid "sorry, but could I have...." With each request, the deli worker became more surly and acted out by sighing, slamming the meat back in the case or on the cutter. So sometimes being hesitant and unnecessarily subservient only brings out more aggression in others, especially those miserable souls who never miss an opportunity to make someone else feel inferior and badly.
On the other hand, lots of cultures have little ways of trying not to appear rude, as the author mentioned about the British. On many an Italian bus or train, you experience a lot of elbowing and pushing past you accompanied by an aggressive "Scusi, Scusi!" I think in the U.S. we use "Excuse me" said in an assertive rather than defensive manner when trying to advance our position.
But I think many women who appear apologetic by saying "Sorry, but..., before making a firm request are more concerned about not appearing to offend the other in the hopes of eliciting the other persons' cooperation rather than upping their aggression level. Saying sorry or excuse me really does not take up much airtime.
Call it diplomacy, and relationships in this country surely could use more of that.
3
Honestly, the gender stereotyping that goes on when people talk about misuse of "sorry"! Men say "I'm sorry" arrogantly, we hear; women say it obsequiously. In my experience, the champion of "I'm sorry you feel that way" was a woman in my family.
And in applying makeup on the subway, the issue is not elbow spreading; it's making a gross display of oneself. Besides, how many men apply makeup on the subway?
And in applying makeup on the subway, the issue is not elbow spreading; it's making a gross display of oneself. Besides, how many men apply makeup on the subway?
1
As a Brit, I too am afflicted with that pesky inclination to start certain sentences with sorry, as in "Sorry, but have you...." instead of "Excuse me".
Having spent many years in America though, I'm very aware though that this is uncommon / less common in the US. I have received enough wilting "get to the point already" looks from New Yorkers to have successfully stopped. In that, I consider it similar to the upward talking tendency that another commenter pointed out or the need to say "like" multiple times per sentence -- you just learn not to do it. "Sorry" is worse though because it makes you appear irritating ("she's apologising because she is about to say something annoying") at best, and powerless and helpless at worst.
I am a little confused by the the article though as I haven't encountered this to be an American (women) tendency at all. America is what finally rid me of that darn habit.
Having spent many years in America though, I'm very aware though that this is uncommon / less common in the US. I have received enough wilting "get to the point already" looks from New Yorkers to have successfully stopped. In that, I consider it similar to the upward talking tendency that another commenter pointed out or the need to say "like" multiple times per sentence -- you just learn not to do it. "Sorry" is worse though because it makes you appear irritating ("she's apologising because she is about to say something annoying") at best, and powerless and helpless at worst.
I am a little confused by the the article though as I haven't encountered this to be an American (women) tendency at all. America is what finally rid me of that darn habit.
1
Come to the Midwest—we'll soon have you doing it again. Sorry. ;)
It appears that the reason you said you were sorry is that you ordered a second dish containing meat without bothering to read the menu or ask about it. That's probably the right thing to do, unless this bacon dish was labeled "vegetarian" on the menu.
3
I was in the grocery store the other day. As I wheeled my cart into the next aisle, a woman, who wasn't in the way at all, quickly moved her cart aside and said, "Sorry." I thought to myself, "Here is a woman, apologizing for just being here."
6
The rude behavior subway ads are awful. And sexist. It sucks that they depict mostly men. It's doubtless that happened because they knew men wouldn't complain. And that feminist pundits would call them on it if they showed women. It's funny that the author feels she has to say 'not all men are rude' - balance! - then offers the ads as proof that men are rude. And complains about the one female subway ad. We should launch a tumbler/Facebook/change.org campaign!
1
I agree women "apologize" too much. I hate it. I can't stand hearing a woman (or anyone) say "sorry" for something someone else did.
I find it odd that this behavior may be increasing. Perhaps that's due to women gaining ground in the world. "Sorry, but I am going to be President."
These meaningless apologies should disappear. They undermine the the woman asserting herself, and give give off a mixed message. It puts the woman in a position of being less powerful. It's not "polite" to apologize while asserting yourself in a legitimate way - it's nuts.
C'mon ladies, if you've been done wrong (by the waiter, the boyfriend or husband, the boss, whoever), can the "sorry" and just say what's on your mind.
Equally empty - though different - and even more annoying, is the "I'm sorry you feel that way." (Heard on occasion from the wife.) In this case, the wife is "at fault" but the use of "sorry" gets her off the hook while demeaning the husband (me). But that's an entirely different story.
I find it odd that this behavior may be increasing. Perhaps that's due to women gaining ground in the world. "Sorry, but I am going to be President."
These meaningless apologies should disappear. They undermine the the woman asserting herself, and give give off a mixed message. It puts the woman in a position of being less powerful. It's not "polite" to apologize while asserting yourself in a legitimate way - it's nuts.
C'mon ladies, if you've been done wrong (by the waiter, the boyfriend or husband, the boss, whoever), can the "sorry" and just say what's on your mind.
Equally empty - though different - and even more annoying, is the "I'm sorry you feel that way." (Heard on occasion from the wife.) In this case, the wife is "at fault" but the use of "sorry" gets her off the hook while demeaning the husband (me). But that's an entirely different story.
10
Yeah man! = when did 'I'm sorry' replace the ubiquitously useful, correct, and much-needed 'You guys REALLY screwed this up!' (and to what does that not apply? except maybe to music, automotive design, and the occasional neonate) lol
You're spot on. I'm a woman, and don't apologize while asserting myself in a legitimate way. There are ways to do this and remain polite at the same time.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" is one of the most patronizing and dismissive responses to someone else's complaint or assertion that I can think of. It reminds me of a lying politician's "I have no recollection . . ." when called out for previous statements or behavior.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" is one of the most patronizing and dismissive responses to someone else's complaint or assertion that I can think of. It reminds me of a lying politician's "I have no recollection . . ." when called out for previous statements or behavior.
Canning the sorry and speaking my mind has helped weed the emotionally frail out of my life. Which is ultimately good for me (although sometimes smarts in the short term).
"I'm sorry you feel that way" is a cop out and a non-apology apology. In my experience, it's used by those who tend to act callously but demand white-glove treatment.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" is a cop out and a non-apology apology. In my experience, it's used by those who tend to act callously but demand white-glove treatment.
Saying "sorry" when one doesn't mean it is a particularly annoying manifestation of societal disintegration. Meaningless words don't compensate for rude or aggressive behavior nor do they make me feel better when I am mistreated by unfeeling and careless people. If you find yourself often being "sorry", try thinking before you act. Talk is cheap and "sorry" is about as valueless as it gets.
4
I am sorry to say this is a problem that has been around for a long time and probably will continue to occur.
More than anything - it's a habit.
Agreed with another comment. Perhaps we should just learn to say "Excuse me" when we try to get someone's attention or feel we need to interject a tad bit of sorry out of our habitual sorriness. I'm sorry if that sounds a little too Canadian. Canadians probably remark how much Americans say their sorry and don't realize it's the same as them excusing themselves. Oh well.
More than anything - it's a habit.
Agreed with another comment. Perhaps we should just learn to say "Excuse me" when we try to get someone's attention or feel we need to interject a tad bit of sorry out of our habitual sorriness. I'm sorry if that sounds a little too Canadian. Canadians probably remark how much Americans say their sorry and don't realize it's the same as them excusing themselves. Oh well.
2
I'm sorry (thinking: your cooking is woefully under seasoned) please pass the salt.
I'm sorry (thinking: didn't you see me here waiting to use the ATM?) I think I was next.
I'm sorry (thinking: these tires were buy 3, get 1 free), is there something wrong with my invoice?
I'm really never "sorry". I just wish other people would smarten up and correct their "sorry" behavior.
I'm sorry (thinking: didn't you see me here waiting to use the ATM?) I think I was next.
I'm sorry (thinking: these tires were buy 3, get 1 free), is there something wrong with my invoice?
I'm really never "sorry". I just wish other people would smarten up and correct their "sorry" behavior.
2
My stock respose to the frequent "I'm sorry" from rude and thoughtless people is, "You certainly are."
1
Regarding the myth of "manspreading" as purposeful inconsiderate behavior: Someone, PLEASE look at a diagram of the male pelvis versus the female pelvis, and see how the angle of the pelvis of women causes the knees to push together more than that of the male pelvis, which is smaller, has a different center of gravity, and naturally inclines the knees further apart than women. "Manspreading" is nature, not rudeness. Not that we ALL can't be more considerate everywhere in NYC, but stop creating animosity where there should be none.
4
Sorry Jao, but women are taught from childhood to keep their knees together or crossed (esp while wearing skirts), because of the "loose" connotation associated with a female sitting with open legs. Maybe by adulthood it's habit, or for some women, still a conscious effort. Of course it is more comfortable to sit with legs open - for both genders. Women make themselves smaller to accommodate the lack of space. It's not biological; it's polite in a packed car. So, sorry, but no sympathy. Close your legs on the subway.
3
Nature, shmature. For me, keeping my legs together was a learned behavior; it's necessary when you're wearing a skirt. Besides, most men don't spread - are they all acting unnatural?
1
Can you hear yourself? Get it together, sir.
2
I'm American, male and 69. Either the phenomenon is increasing, or it's just being co-enhanced by the up-inflection epidemic. Both are like someone bowing or curtsying to strangers. Jarring, like the normal effacement of Japanese women. Embarrassing, because there's no response, like 'not at all' or 'thanks'.
I know the horrible up-inflection originated in Southern California, but where did all this sorry come from? Are we becoming so crowded that new, defusing social behavior is needed?
And ladies, the auto-smile that seems to be related is just plain weird. The only response to a smile is a smile, and god knows where that might lead.
I know the horrible up-inflection originated in Southern California, but where did all this sorry come from? Are we becoming so crowded that new, defusing social behavior is needed?
And ladies, the auto-smile that seems to be related is just plain weird. The only response to a smile is a smile, and god knows where that might lead.
I'd like to see an article about women and laughter. It seems to me that many women use laughter to appear pleasant while also covering up their true (socially unacceptable?) feelings. I have heard many women relate experiences that, to me, are completely non-humorous -- while laughing the entire time. Is this something like the false "sorry" or something completely different?
13
That is so true.....I sometimes laugh when I'm uncomfortable, nervous and other inappropriate times. Kinda weird.
I agree it would be interesting and I believe it IS akin. Women use laughter sometimes to appear non-aggressive even when injured or outraged so as not to provoke further harm.
My husband never said sorry in his life (nor did his mother). After she had been particularly publicly and inexcusably rude, I refused to be around her until I got a sorry out of her. Many weeks passed. One day I found a note in my mailbox: "I'm sorry. Grace." Not heartfelt, but there it was. Her daughters told me they wanted to frame it. Her son, to whom I am married, was put in jail in Honolulu for talking back to a judge about a traffic ticket. I went to bail him out and saw my chance: "Do you want to get out?" I asked. "Yes. Right now," he mumbled. "Then say I'm sorry for putting you to this trouble," I said. Silence. More silence. "I'm leaving now, bye," I said. From somewhere in the depths of the Halawa jail I heard his low voice,"I'm sorry." "Louder," I said. "I'm sorry!" he shouted. I paid his bail, but that's the last time in 40 years I've ever heard I'm sorry from him. Must be in his dna.
344
Oh my word! I am going through EXACTLY the same thing, Gay and started a late in life relationship with an otherwise wonderful man to whom "SORRY" is an obscenity in some foreign tongue that he has no accordance with. Right now we are going through a difficult period after a major blow out. He still is having trouble seriously accepting part of the blame, he mumbles that it was both our faults but can not say "I apologize" or "I shouldn't have done that."
It is not an inconsequential matter, not apologizing allows that person to remain in denial about the responsibility.
It is not an inconsequential matter, not apologizing allows that person to remain in denial about the responsibility.
3
Anne -- I've been reading your posts long enough to be glad to see your photo come into view as I scroll through the comments.
Timing is everything, and today your post hit the mark for me. Lucky for me, it's not my husband who is the one with this issue. It is an issue that was passed from a mother to sons though. And the mother is so blind to her own behavior that she blames the father of these men exclusively for their inability to apologize (to women, especially).
Timing is everything, and today your post hit the mark for me. Lucky for me, it's not my husband who is the one with this issue. It is an issue that was passed from a mother to sons though. And the mother is so blind to her own behavior that she blames the father of these men exclusively for their inability to apologize (to women, especially).
Nope, not in his dna. Sounds more like his insufferable upbringing. I hope he doesn't pass on this behavior to your kids.
1
Sorry but Imagine then what Canadian women endure.
4
I'm fond of "sorry." It is an agile, useful chameleon of a word, used in different ways in different cultures. The reflexive female "sorry" seems to me to be a verbal throat-clearing to get someone's attention. It is often a shorthand "sorry to trouble you" for the action one is presumably asking the other person to carry out (getting one a fork, pulling in those manspread thighs, whatever). With perhaps a subtle hint of "sorry to embarrass you by pointing out your shortcomings/rudeness/bad salad washing skills."
10
I save saying I'm sorry for when I truly am, as when I will "try to not do it again". So I'm with the author: all those "sorrys" are passive aggressive because, in fact, you will do it again if the situation arises.
Here's another one that has been cheapened by overuse: "Thank you SO much." All I did was let you have the unused chair from my park table, or passed the salt or whatever. I didn't give you a kidney. A basic "thank you" is all that is required.
Here's another one that has been cheapened by overuse: "Thank you SO much." All I did was let you have the unused chair from my park table, or passed the salt or whatever. I didn't give you a kidney. A basic "thank you" is all that is required.
8
"Thank you SO much!" is becoming cheapened because "Thank you" was cheapened before it. When we have the perfunctory "thank you" and the sarcastic "thank you," what can a person say to express gratitude?
When visiting New York City, it always takes a while (OK, 35 minutes) to get used to hearing people (women, and men too!) loudly exclaim "Excuse Me!" as a way of saying "get the ... out of my way NOW!" or "you're TOO SLOW" or "I wish you didn't exist here and now". Only the written words literally mean "excuse me". No one who utters or receives them these days thinks they are in any way a heartfelt excuse or any form of politness. (At least no one having spent more than 35 minutes in NYC).
1
I used to say "sorry" all the time. I quit because it filled me with resentment at the offender, or resentment at myself, for being a wimp. Apologies for real offenses are fine--for spilling coffee in someone's lap, for stepping on their feet in a movie theatre. Otherwise, ladies, and I say this with love, put a cork in it.
1
Yesterday I walked into an elevator and the woman who was in there had to move aside to let me in, saying "Sorry".
I joked with her, "You don't have to apologize for being in the elevator first" and how Germans tease us for apologizing so much.
I've noted this behavior and have been surprised by how many women basically apologize just for being somewhere.
I joked with her, "You don't have to apologize for being in the elevator first" and how Germans tease us for apologizing so much.
I've noted this behavior and have been surprised by how many women basically apologize just for being somewhere.
1
Starting with the salad anecdote, I would substitute "excuse me" for sorry.
"Excuse me" in this context is a polite way of saying "can I have your attention" (as opposed to "HEY!") Because that your real intention, not to apologize.
"Excuse me, there's dirt in my salad."
Save the 's' word for when it's more appropriate, for when you are at least marginally at fault.
"Excuse me" in this context is a polite way of saying "can I have your attention" (as opposed to "HEY!") Because that your real intention, not to apologize.
"Excuse me, there's dirt in my salad."
Save the 's' word for when it's more appropriate, for when you are at least marginally at fault.
8
English does not have a formal you the way French, Italian, Spanish, German, and some other languages do. That you is one way of being polite to strangers or people who are in a higher position than the one doing the asking or whatever is involved. Perhaps our I'm sorry is a way to make up for that lack in our language.
However, I will say that apologies in my corner of America are very rare. People act as though stepping on others feet, banging into them with a shopping cart or an elbow, hitting another car door with their car door, bumping into someone while texting or talking on the phone are nothing. Years ago a young boy stepped on my foot while I was reading. I told him that the polite thing to say is either "Excuse me", or "I'm sorry". His father glared at me as if I was a criminal for expecting polite behavior from him or his son.
I say excuse me and I'm sorry when I'm making my way through a crowd. I'll say I'm sorry when I know someone is wrong but I want to soften the "blow". I find that it makes certain interactions much easier over the phone and in person because the individual on the receiving end tends to be much more polite and, if I am trying to help them, more amenable to the instructions. I don't like it when assertive actions by me as a woman are characterized as aggressive or arrogant but not when a man does them. But then they think we're too soft if we're "nice". We can't win for losing.
However, I will say that apologies in my corner of America are very rare. People act as though stepping on others feet, banging into them with a shopping cart or an elbow, hitting another car door with their car door, bumping into someone while texting or talking on the phone are nothing. Years ago a young boy stepped on my foot while I was reading. I told him that the polite thing to say is either "Excuse me", or "I'm sorry". His father glared at me as if I was a criminal for expecting polite behavior from him or his son.
I say excuse me and I'm sorry when I'm making my way through a crowd. I'll say I'm sorry when I know someone is wrong but I want to soften the "blow". I find that it makes certain interactions much easier over the phone and in person because the individual on the receiving end tends to be much more polite and, if I am trying to help them, more amenable to the instructions. I don't like it when assertive actions by me as a woman are characterized as aggressive or arrogant but not when a man does them. But then they think we're too soft if we're "nice". We can't win for losing.
6
When someone doesn't say offer a verbal recognition of their offensive behavior, I say "excuse you."
1
As a young man in college and just after, I found myself saying "sorry" a lot - almost in the way the author describes. It was a personal subjugation to everyone around - an "I'm not worthy" statement straight from Wayne's World. It took me a while to realize that, and I put it into my mind to change, and developed several alternatives. Excuse me was one. Just saying what's on my mind was another. I'm still considered a bit too nice and polite by many I work with - lacking that edge that seems so requisite for break-out success in corporations. But I'll take nice and direct any day.
23
That 'edge' is needed in NYC, where business is cutthroat, to put it mildly.
It is mostly women who do the constant apologizing, but some men (especially those not born here) do so too. The behavior comes off as subservient and makes them seem like they will not be tough enough to deal with the stress and competition of the business world.
It is mostly women who do the constant apologizing, but some men (especially those not born here) do so too. The behavior comes off as subservient and makes them seem like they will not be tough enough to deal with the stress and competition of the business world.
Generalizations are treacherous because the road to bigotry and intolerance is paved by generalization and discrimination.
When a young woman stepped on the gas pedal and cut me off in a crosswalk provoking a cry of alarm from me, she did not say sorry. She made an obscene gesture.
When a young woman at the bank cashed a check for me and wordlessly threw the money down on the counter without counting it, I counted it and then suggested she count it again, as she'd given me several hundred dollars too much. She took the money back, counted it, corrected the error, then, without a word, slapped the money down on the counter and glared at me.
What did I do wrong?
Nothing...
Rudeness as a companion to incompetent service is an epidemic in America and it has *nothing* to do with age, sex, or race. It is a function of economics, but that is a subject for another day.
How have I responded?
By avoidance...
For example, I refuse to fly, eat out rarely, use cash machines, and prefer jaywalking to crosswalks given cars come from four directions at intersections and only two in the middle of the street.
When a young woman stepped on the gas pedal and cut me off in a crosswalk provoking a cry of alarm from me, she did not say sorry. She made an obscene gesture.
When a young woman at the bank cashed a check for me and wordlessly threw the money down on the counter without counting it, I counted it and then suggested she count it again, as she'd given me several hundred dollars too much. She took the money back, counted it, corrected the error, then, without a word, slapped the money down on the counter and glared at me.
What did I do wrong?
Nothing...
Rudeness as a companion to incompetent service is an epidemic in America and it has *nothing* to do with age, sex, or race. It is a function of economics, but that is a subject for another day.
How have I responded?
By avoidance...
For example, I refuse to fly, eat out rarely, use cash machines, and prefer jaywalking to crosswalks given cars come from four directions at intersections and only two in the middle of the street.
49
Over-apologizing is not a uniquely female affliction. It is an affliction of those who are English speakers. Sorry, has a dual usage for expressing an apology, as well as sorrow or regret.
We use an apology to get people's attention. "Excuse me, Sir! Could you..."
We use an apology to express anger or dismay when others are displeased with us. "Well, excuuuuse me!!! But I never..."
We use a term that is also an apology when we convey sympathy or sorrow.
We use an apology when we disagree. "I am sorry to say..."
Then, when some of us apologize and don't mean it, they say "I am sorry if I..."
It says a lot about our culture... Doesn't it?
We use an apology to get people's attention. "Excuse me, Sir! Could you..."
We use an apology to express anger or dismay when others are displeased with us. "Well, excuuuuse me!!! But I never..."
We use a term that is also an apology when we convey sympathy or sorrow.
We use an apology when we disagree. "I am sorry to say..."
Then, when some of us apologize and don't mean it, they say "I am sorry if I..."
It says a lot about our culture... Doesn't it?
16
Constant use of apology words does seem to be part of being an English speaker. It is one of the things I had to learn as a speaker of English as a second language. After so many years of speaking English, I still remember how odd I at first thought it was that people routinely apologized for their inability to do something for which they were plainly not responsible. I suppose this is an example of the "expression of regret" usage of "sorry" that Rima Regas refers to, but it was and still remains striking to me.
1
Isabel,
I am tri-lingual. Now that you mention it, my awareness probably stems from thinking and speaking in other languages.
Thanks for replying!
I am tri-lingual. Now that you mention it, my awareness probably stems from thinking and speaking in other languages.
Thanks for replying!
1
Well, what do you want us to say? Is there some other way in which I could accommodate your demands such that I don't feel the full force of your constant irritation?
21
I'm an American male and I use the phrase "I'm sorry" in excess- and I won't apologize for it. I find that it smooths confrontation, reminds us that we can disagree but still respect another opinion, that we can point out errors without being condescending and most of all it adds a level of decorum in a world that increasingly lacks it. While it may seem self-effacing at best and manipulative at worst, it is nonetheless a very small price to pay for promoting civility and setting an example, especially to my kids, that being humble and polite are easy virtues which must be extolled and upheld- that they are a sign of strength and not of weakness.
259
Canadians say sorry when they mean "excuse me" and it is a national pastime.
26
True story. Consider this man who married twice. His first wife he swears never said I'm sorry even once in 10 years together but blamed everyone around her for her manifold shortcomings. His second wife of 20 years was a consummate I'm sorry sayer. Each woman was like her own mother about apologies. Nature or nurture? Or neither?
4
Consider what "nurture" might mean here. Did the second woman just see the writing on the wall in regard to her husband? Was he a nitpicky, fault-finding type? If that was the case, it would not be surprising if the woman turned out a compulsive apologizer.
I am shocked at the comments because I totally agree with you. I'm not one of them but I know women who apologize constantly, practically just for speaking or having a different opinion. "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry", when they have nothing to be sorry about. And I don't know any men who talk like that. It feels to me when they do that they feel they have no right to be contrary to expectations at all.
89
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this article. It touches on an issue that has bothered me for more than fifty years: why do women smile at male strangers should their eyes meet?
It happens in groceries, on street corners waiting for a green “go” for pedestrians, in waiting rooms, in parking lots; indeed, everywhere. And, while I suppose I must admit that, at my age, an attractive smile has more oomph than it does for younger men, it has always bothered me because I thought—and still think—that it’s a defense mechanism with the message “please don’t rape me. I’m a nice person as you can tell from my smile.”
I’m not about to rape anyone, but I understand in our culture, with all the emphasis on power and control, that the fear is real, even if the in-the-moment, perceived threat evoking the fear isn’t necessarily real. I suppose flashing a smile at a threatening presence, i.e., at a male stranger, is the figurative equivalent of a man’s brandishing a sword or a gun or a weapon to prompt second thoughts by those whom the man might himself fear. This thought brings “Gunsmoke” and Matt Dillon to mind.
If I’m right, then I apologize for being part of a culture that has brought about this phenomenon. At the same time, I’m saddened that it confirms my suspicion that my looks don’t prompt the smile.
It happens in groceries, on street corners waiting for a green “go” for pedestrians, in waiting rooms, in parking lots; indeed, everywhere. And, while I suppose I must admit that, at my age, an attractive smile has more oomph than it does for younger men, it has always bothered me because I thought—and still think—that it’s a defense mechanism with the message “please don’t rape me. I’m a nice person as you can tell from my smile.”
I’m not about to rape anyone, but I understand in our culture, with all the emphasis on power and control, that the fear is real, even if the in-the-moment, perceived threat evoking the fear isn’t necessarily real. I suppose flashing a smile at a threatening presence, i.e., at a male stranger, is the figurative equivalent of a man’s brandishing a sword or a gun or a weapon to prompt second thoughts by those whom the man might himself fear. This thought brings “Gunsmoke” and Matt Dillon to mind.
If I’m right, then I apologize for being part of a culture that has brought about this phenomenon. At the same time, I’m saddened that it confirms my suspicion that my looks don’t prompt the smile.
32
In response to Matt Gaffney. What a wonderfully insightful response. THANK YOU. You are absolutely on the mark.
4
I smile at strangers because I'm friendly like that. I can assure you that not once in my life have I intended to send the message, "Please don't rape me." Your comment is disturbing on so many levels.
10
Why do we smile?
BECAUSE WE ARE NICE PEOPLE! God! It’s not about YOU!! It’s about women doing nice things for others, for keeping the situation tranquil!
Get OVER yourself! You ain’t Brad Pitt!
You complain about women smiling...why? OTOH we women have to put up with catcalls, whistles, lewd, obscene behavior just trying to walk to work.
BECAUSE WE ARE NICE PEOPLE! God! It’s not about YOU!! It’s about women doing nice things for others, for keeping the situation tranquil!
Get OVER yourself! You ain’t Brad Pitt!
You complain about women smiling...why? OTOH we women have to put up with catcalls, whistles, lewd, obscene behavior just trying to walk to work.
5
I like this article and it's assertions, and my comment comes from playing a game just last night that descended into a very funny version of the very point the article makes.
It's a board game: "Sorry: the game of sweet revenge." Play this game and notice if you only have one type of "sorry" you are able to offer... explore other possibilities dramatically! There are many, many kinds of sorry, including rude ones and back-taking ones, ironic ones, pleading ones, logical ones.
To anyone who defends "sorry" and similar statements as a necessary condition of getting along with others, notice how much of your own or others "getting along" comes from a child's voice in an adult wrapper rather than an adult's voice. Don't get me wrong, our children our wonderful and deserve to be heard, but hearing them out FULLY rather than subjugating them to ongoing and unrealistic expectations means we can surprise ourselves with new levels of genuine patience and appreciation.
It's a board game: "Sorry: the game of sweet revenge." Play this game and notice if you only have one type of "sorry" you are able to offer... explore other possibilities dramatically! There are many, many kinds of sorry, including rude ones and back-taking ones, ironic ones, pleading ones, logical ones.
To anyone who defends "sorry" and similar statements as a necessary condition of getting along with others, notice how much of your own or others "getting along" comes from a child's voice in an adult wrapper rather than an adult's voice. Don't get me wrong, our children our wonderful and deserve to be heard, but hearing them out FULLY rather than subjugating them to ongoing and unrealistic expectations means we can surprise ourselves with new levels of genuine patience and appreciation.
3
Great piece with excellent points. Being Canadian and a woman, I can completely relate to that annoying verbal tick my nationality and gender are known for. I respectfully disagree with the other commenters who have miscontrued Ms Crosley's points. Sorry and sincere apologies do not go hand in hand. The sorry of which she writes is akin to the verbal inflection women (generally, not all) use unconsciously to turn a statement into a question. It's a bad habit that's been unconsciously ingrained. As a whole group, we could all be more polite with a whole lot less "sorry."
72
In most situations described here, "Sorry" is just a short-hand for "Excuse me," which is itself faux politeness for, "HEY, Stop what you're doin' and look here!" I've never interpreted it as or used it as an apology; it's more a weapon that's used to disarm the other side and get them to respond with politeness.
The only time when that that's not been true is when women (or men) interrupt me when I am doing something to ask for help. In situations like that, a "Sorry" seems appropriate.
The only time when that that's not been true is when women (or men) interrupt me when I am doing something to ask for help. In situations like that, a "Sorry" seems appropriate.
15
The apologies are a way of trying to reduce likely pushback, I think by trying to make the apologist come across as someone for whom the other person wants to do the thing needed -- the thing they should have done to begin with because it was the right thing to do. The person didn't do it, the apologist feels somewhat powerless, and they've learned a way of presenting that increases the likelihood that the person will come to do the thing out of (stroked) ego from the having heard an apology. In other words, I see the apology as a coping strategy, one which may lead to the other's needed behavior but which also has a negative impact on the apologizer's own self.
35
MS. CROSLEY . . .
...if this comment in any way offends you, please let me genuinely apologize to you in advance.
Sorry!
...if this comment in any way offends you, please let me genuinely apologize to you in advance.
Sorry!
8
I agree Ms. Crosley has a point and especially in the back end of the article where "sorry" and other apologies are slyly used consciously, subconsciously or both to get what the utterer wants. But in that sense, what's the point? Language was weaponized a long time ago and word constructions rarely mean what their literal definitions intend. "Sorry" is one among all the trees that obstruct the view of the forest.
7
Even more irritating than unnecessary apologies are unnecessary questions? I refer to up-talking? Ending all sentences (not only questions) with vocal question marks? This linguistic perversion has spread like wildfire on college campuses over the past thirty years? And even though many young men have adopted it, the habit is even more common among young women? And it's often accompanied by the seemingly inexplicable "scratchy voice" phenomenon"?
Up-talking is not (as apologists claim) a way of indicating "sensitivity" by refusing to make a declarative statement and thus provoking disagreement (which has nothing to do with politeness). It sounds like seeking permission (after the fact) to express an opinion (which is unnecessary in 2015 no matter what feminists claim). Worse, it sounds like lack of confidence that the listener is smart enough to understand (which is condescending and therefore the height of rudeness).
Simultaneously, two contradictory linguistic phenomena have emerged. One is the overuse of intensifiers ("absolutely," "totally" and "!!!"), which suggests ranting. Another is the real ranting that prevails on every college campus and relies on enforcing political-correctness codes to prevent anyone from hearing dissident voices.
My explanation is that many people, especially young women, use one bad habit (unnecessary questions or apologies) to counteract more serious ones (ideological ranting and political correctness).
Up-talking is not (as apologists claim) a way of indicating "sensitivity" by refusing to make a declarative statement and thus provoking disagreement (which has nothing to do with politeness). It sounds like seeking permission (after the fact) to express an opinion (which is unnecessary in 2015 no matter what feminists claim). Worse, it sounds like lack of confidence that the listener is smart enough to understand (which is condescending and therefore the height of rudeness).
Simultaneously, two contradictory linguistic phenomena have emerged. One is the overuse of intensifiers ("absolutely," "totally" and "!!!"), which suggests ranting. Another is the real ranting that prevails on every college campus and relies on enforcing political-correctness codes to prevent anyone from hearing dissident voices.
My explanation is that many people, especially young women, use one bad habit (unnecessary questions or apologies) to counteract more serious ones (ideological ranting and political correctness).
82
Come off it. Saying that a rising inflection always means (or always should mean) a question is one of those myths about the English language, like two negatives make a positive (a false analogy from mathematics), or that a split infinitive is impossible (English is not Classical Latin).
Fortunately, a childhood visit to my great-aunt and her daughter taught me better. The cousin, about the same age as my mother, showed me around and said "This is my bedroom," with a rising inflection. Not "This is my bedroom?"
Fortunately, a childhood visit to my great-aunt and her daughter taught me better. The cousin, about the same age as my mother, showed me around and said "This is my bedroom," with a rising inflection. Not "This is my bedroom?"
2
(Sorry for going off script.)
Paul (and Diego below) really nail it. I will happily take a thousand apologies each day if people will stop the infantile inflections that render every statement a question. This foul habit has spread beyond the campus into professional life, even midlife. Surely its practitioners realize it makes them sound like fourth-graders? My own theory in these less-fecund times is the luxury among many of hyper-focusing on scarcer children--witness the BMW-like baby strollers proudly albeit rudely plied through crowds--and the desire among these many to coopt or carry this adoration into adulthood by sounding childlike. This is taken to an extreme by a minority of adult, mostly female speakers who simply adopt an almost entirely little-girl manner of speech applied to their otherwise adult conversation (think Shirley Temple).
The gritty sound Paul mentions is termed "glottal fry," the purpose of which is to convince us that the speaker is actually an adult or an expert. Grad students, junior-level academics and countless NPR interviewees do this instinctively. Ironically, in a sea of rising inflections they need only speak normally to stand out as adults.
All these linguistic and vocal affectations--sorry to say practiced mainly by a subset of young women--are a beacon for: I'm not sure of myself. If a lack of respect from other women and men in general is the reason, please don't think that sounding creaky or like a child will help.
Sorry--?
Paul (and Diego below) really nail it. I will happily take a thousand apologies each day if people will stop the infantile inflections that render every statement a question. This foul habit has spread beyond the campus into professional life, even midlife. Surely its practitioners realize it makes them sound like fourth-graders? My own theory in these less-fecund times is the luxury among many of hyper-focusing on scarcer children--witness the BMW-like baby strollers proudly albeit rudely plied through crowds--and the desire among these many to coopt or carry this adoration into adulthood by sounding childlike. This is taken to an extreme by a minority of adult, mostly female speakers who simply adopt an almost entirely little-girl manner of speech applied to their otherwise adult conversation (think Shirley Temple).
The gritty sound Paul mentions is termed "glottal fry," the purpose of which is to convince us that the speaker is actually an adult or an expert. Grad students, junior-level academics and countless NPR interviewees do this instinctively. Ironically, in a sea of rising inflections they need only speak normally to stand out as adults.
All these linguistic and vocal affectations--sorry to say practiced mainly by a subset of young women--are a beacon for: I'm not sure of myself. If a lack of respect from other women and men in general is the reason, please don't think that sounding creaky or like a child will help.
Sorry--?
2
The rising inflection drives me nuts as well. I know professional women in their 50s who have adopted this within the last year; I have trouble believing that it was not deliberate. I've also turned off an otherwise fascinating NPR programs because the reporter used up talk incessantly.
My theory is that some people think that up talk makes them sound more thoughtful, as if they're presenting interesting but speculative hypotheses that just occurred to them on the fly. It is part of the endless hoops women go through to be taken seriously without being dismissed as aggressive, strident, negative, etc. Unfortunately, too much up talk undermines credibility rather than reinforcing it.
My theory is that some people think that up talk makes them sound more thoughtful, as if they're presenting interesting but speculative hypotheses that just occurred to them on the fly. It is part of the endless hoops women go through to be taken seriously without being dismissed as aggressive, strident, negative, etc. Unfortunately, too much up talk undermines credibility rather than reinforcing it.
1
Love means never having to say you're sorry. (With apologies)
7
Whoever made up that line was completely wrong
7
My mother taught me at a very young age that that was a ridiculously stupid conceit for a book/movie.
3
In a world that promotes self-centered behavior (selfies, Facebook, Twitter, etc.), saying #sorry is a good thing. Even if one doesn't really mean it. It creates an awareness that the world doesn't revolve around #me.
And yes, British men (and women) are really good at it. They understand more than most Anerican that self-centered behavior is an ugly thing. So the #sorry uttered in the beginning of a sentence should read:"I am sorry but now I need to turn the attention to #me, may I point it out that.........."
And btw, French, Dannish, Dutch, Japanese and Singaporean men (and women) are very good at saying #sorry, too ........
And yes, British men (and women) are really good at it. They understand more than most Anerican that self-centered behavior is an ugly thing. So the #sorry uttered in the beginning of a sentence should read:"I am sorry but now I need to turn the attention to #me, may I point it out that.........."
And btw, French, Dannish, Dutch, Japanese and Singaporean men (and women) are very good at saying #sorry, too ........
323
AND, btw, I think American men are in general not so good at using this phrase, and it is from within this context that the author of the essay writes. (If you who are reading this comment are an American man who does know how to successfully use "sorry" as a politeness, please know that about yourself and know you are in a special minority.)
2
What is with all the childish ##'s?
2
I agree with you, Abram, that the British people are great at day-to-day apologizing. "Sorry for hitting you with my brolly. Are you all right?" "I'm sorry for bothering you, but do you have the time, please? Thank you very much." And I loved that while I was living over there.
But the drawback in the overuse of the apology is that "sorry" takes on so many meanings that the onus is on the receiver to decode what the "sorry" means. Let's be honest. Many times the "sorry" is not genuine. It is the "get out of the awkward situation free" card. The casual "sorry" may be fine in with dealing with strangers, but when it comes do dealing with more intimate relationships, it causes nothing but problems.
But the drawback in the overuse of the apology is that "sorry" takes on so many meanings that the onus is on the receiver to decode what the "sorry" means. Let's be honest. Many times the "sorry" is not genuine. It is the "get out of the awkward situation free" card. The casual "sorry" may be fine in with dealing with strangers, but when it comes do dealing with more intimate relationships, it causes nothing but problems.
48
Yes, get rid of it.
While women are at it, when someone asks, say, your name or phone number, please stop responding as if you yourself are asking a question, with the upward inflection at the end.
"Name please."
"Suzie Carmichael?"
Don't ask your name, say it! My wife and daughter are great people. A simple shift in tone will take them from being apologetic about their name to being assertive about it.
While women are at it, when someone asks, say, your name or phone number, please stop responding as if you yourself are asking a question, with the upward inflection at the end.
"Name please."
"Suzie Carmichael?"
Don't ask your name, say it! My wife and daughter are great people. A simple shift in tone will take them from being apologetic about their name to being assertive about it.
19
That's called "upspeak" and it is very, very annoying. Makes women sound sorry for being alive.
5
The upward inflection is not questioning one's own name, it implicitly asks if the listener heard and can spell the name.
1
Try firmly stating "555-5678" versus upspeaking (thanks Betsy Miller) "555-5678?" and see if the listener has any trouble.
1
I must have missed that lesson as I usually only say I'm sorry when I really think I did something wrong. Certain folks (the Brits as a group) seem to use "I'm sorry" rather than "pardon" or some such when they do not hear what is said, but not hearing is just as often the fault of the speaker (though it might just as well be ambient noise over which neither has control).
For too many woman the overuse of 'I'm sorry' is, at its root, an apology for existing at all. The example about loud music in the night is classic. It says, "I think you have a right to play your music loud the way you like it. I therefore think that somehow you have a right to clog the neighborhood night with your music, thus my resenting it is not really ok." Women have historically been taught that they are to consider everyone else's needs before their own. To this day women are praised for being all-giving, for putting kids, spouse, parents, friends, and anyone else on the planet first before they consider their own needs. In such a climate, many women are left feeling that asserting their own needs is truly something for which to apologize - sorry.
For too many woman the overuse of 'I'm sorry' is, at its root, an apology for existing at all. The example about loud music in the night is classic. It says, "I think you have a right to play your music loud the way you like it. I therefore think that somehow you have a right to clog the neighborhood night with your music, thus my resenting it is not really ok." Women have historically been taught that they are to consider everyone else's needs before their own. To this day women are praised for being all-giving, for putting kids, spouse, parents, friends, and anyone else on the planet first before they consider their own needs. In such a climate, many women are left feeling that asserting their own needs is truly something for which to apologize - sorry.
101
Anne-Marie's comment brought back an old memory! I was in my early 20s, just starting an MA program, and living in an apartment complex filled with students. At 10 pm I was typing a paper due the next morning. In that pre-computer age, a typewriter made noise, even on an inch-thick felt pad.
A guy on the floor below me slammed his window open and screamed, "Stop that damned typing! I've got to sleep!" He added that he played football, and there was a big game the next day. I opened my own window and called down, "Sorry, I've just got to finish this paper!"
Oops. Now he and his pals knew I was female. Despite their desperate need for sleep, what sounded most of the team came pounding and yelling up the stairs and tried to break my door down. I called the police and huddled in the kitchen holding a butcher knife.
The next day I moved out. "Sorry" isn't always enough. Simply asserting one's needs can be quite dangerous for a female.
A guy on the floor below me slammed his window open and screamed, "Stop that damned typing! I've got to sleep!" He added that he played football, and there was a big game the next day. I opened my own window and called down, "Sorry, I've just got to finish this paper!"
Oops. Now he and his pals knew I was female. Despite their desperate need for sleep, what sounded most of the team came pounding and yelling up the stairs and tried to break my door down. I called the police and huddled in the kitchen holding a butcher knife.
The next day I moved out. "Sorry" isn't always enough. Simply asserting one's needs can be quite dangerous for a female.
4
"Women have historically been taught that they are to consider everyone else's needs before their own." Women? You apparently never attended Sunday School, or maybe were absent when the teacher taught the "JOY" accrostic: Jesus first, Others next, and Yourself last. What a refreshing change from the narcissism inducing "Do whatever makes you feel good about yourself!"
Gosh, Anne-Marie, if it’s “the fault of the speaker” that seems like all the more reason to fuzz up the responsibility. Unless your point is to fix fault rather than friendidly converse.
So much needless commentary about what must be a fairly low-level problem for women, particularly in view of the absolute assault on our reproductive rights. Anyway, don't most of us actually say, "excuse me, I need a new fork ... there is a fly in my soup ... can you move your elbow out of my eye." And not "excuse me" in the "I'm sorry" sense, but simply as the most linguistically common way in the English language to call attention to a problem, whether it is experienced by a male or female.
I think you should have used the full Julia Child quote, which makes it quite clear that she was referring only to apologies made at the table for the food you serve, lest (1) you give your guests reason to think the food is really not so great, (2) so your guests can enjoy the food, rather than worry about reassuring an insecure host. Julia would certainly have apologized had there been legitimate reason to do so.
I think you should have used the full Julia Child quote, which makes it quite clear that she was referring only to apologies made at the table for the food you serve, lest (1) you give your guests reason to think the food is really not so great, (2) so your guests can enjoy the food, rather than worry about reassuring an insecure host. Julia would certainly have apologized had there been legitimate reason to do so.
206
I think Deborah's comments are probably true for her, but not for me, and I'm not sorry to disagree with her at all. I, for one, have and still do frequently and automatically throw in a prefatory "sorry" or some equivalent, e.g., "Would you mind?" or "I don't want to bother you, but...." as a tactic to soften anything that I say that could remotely be construed as me putting my own needs or preferences on an equal footing as the person I'm speaking with, let alone first. It's kind of a preventive measure. I am getting better at catching myself at it. That's great, Deborah, that you don't have this problem. It's unfortunate that you cannot seem to empathize with those of us who, despite years and years of the feminist movement's influence, still, for whatever reason,do.
4
Ethbay, what do you say when you DO want to bother someone? As for whose needs should be preferred, if I were a diner in a restaurant I would expect my needs to come ahead of the waitstaff; if I return a purchase because it is flawed I won't apologize, and if someone didn't send me the e-mail or anything else they promised, my reminder will not come with any sort of apology.
(Disclaimer: Yes, I know waitstaff are usually overworked and underpaid, and are certainly not responsible for kitchen errors.)
(Disclaimer: Yes, I know waitstaff are usually overworked and underpaid, and are certainly not responsible for kitchen errors.)
3
...and in light of many other problems we as a society face, but let's look at the article in perspective. Every commentary need not be about life-changing events. I find many of the comments lightly amusing; providing a little break from the issues we are all otherwise passionate about.
1
Courtesies lubricate social interactions and rather than there being too many of them, on the whole there are too few.
Apologize, sincerely, because humans are, well, human... and make mistakes. This is something to celebrate. Then respectfully slide on to resolution.... I'm sorry but I don't see the problem here.
Apologize, sincerely, because humans are, well, human... and make mistakes. This is something to celebrate. Then respectfully slide on to resolution.... I'm sorry but I don't see the problem here.
68
The point is the offender is the recipient of the "apology".
52
In the restaurant example she opens with, the person she's addressing (waiter), except maybe in the fork example, is not the "offender." Having been a waiter, and on the receiving end of "logical, declarative statements" expressing a problem, I can say that statements prefaced with an "I'm sorry" or "Excuse me" seem less rude. Few people, men and women, can pull off such directness without sounding a little jerky.
As a commenter noted below, these "apologies" are actually not apologies, but they do serve as a social lubricant.
As a commenter noted below, these "apologies" are actually not apologies, but they do serve as a social lubricant.
14
EEE, you wouldn't be a man by any chance?
3
Like 'aloha', the word 'sorry' has a lot of meanings. The people who use it best know what it means when they hear it. Sometimes "sorry" has more than one meaning simultaneously, as in "I regret disturbing your party" and also "you owe me an apology for keeping me awake".
And I won't be the first to remind Ms. Crosley that Julia Child did in fact place a roast she dropped while filming nonchalantly back onto a serving tray. If that's not asking anyone to eat dirt, I'm sorry to say, the examples given here fall flat.
And I won't be the first to remind Ms. Crosley that Julia Child did in fact place a roast she dropped while filming nonchalantly back onto a serving tray. If that's not asking anyone to eat dirt, I'm sorry to say, the examples given here fall flat.
26
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The 'sorry' is just a slight deflection, of an about to be voiced opinion. It is a prayer for humility over ego, for the virtue of poverty over wealth, of charity and tolerance over insensitivity and pride. Our society could use a LOT more apologizing, as opposed to the intense burgeoning of humans who think they are kings queens princes and princesses, people who need more and more and more, as we breed solely to feed our capitalist masters, across the land.
First lets apologize to all the humans on earth that us fat americans are causing to suffer for our raging egotism. Then lets apologize to Wal-mart workers, the biggest industry in America that feels like a third world state, inside it's walls. Apologize to people of color, for our un-examined racism. Apologize to all the animals we torture, and all the species that we are causing to go extinct.
Then lets follow that tiny word and it's promise of charity with action.
Sorry is just a word - it is not an action. So it is just a very tiny gesture. But it is an important gesture towards virtue, rather than some sign of weakness. That is all.
First lets apologize to all the humans on earth that us fat americans are causing to suffer for our raging egotism. Then lets apologize to Wal-mart workers, the biggest industry in America that feels like a third world state, inside it's walls. Apologize to people of color, for our un-examined racism. Apologize to all the animals we torture, and all the species that we are causing to go extinct.
Then lets follow that tiny word and it's promise of charity with action.
Sorry is just a word - it is not an action. So it is just a very tiny gesture. But it is an important gesture towards virtue, rather than some sign of weakness. That is all.
166
Yes! It is an important gesture towards virtue rather than a sign of weakness. It is just a word meant in a positive sense.
12
Sorry, but you need to chill.
14
I'm sorry, but in American society, I only hear half of the population uttering this phrase so frequently and reflexively. There's a strange imbalance that the author is trying to address, a difference in orientation to the world and one's ownership of his/her place in it that. I'll try to listen more closely to see if my listening and noticing are skewed. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe men use this phrase just as frequently and I have selective ear plugs. I'll pay attention.
I do find it very interesting that so many of the responses here take issue with what I notice to be very prevalent and obvious. There is lots to correct in this world, more sensitivity and more action needed, but that would be an orange compared to the apple of apologizing for one's existence that Ms. Crosley is trying to bring to our awareness.
I do find it very interesting that so many of the responses here take issue with what I notice to be very prevalent and obvious. There is lots to correct in this world, more sensitivity and more action needed, but that would be an orange compared to the apple of apologizing for one's existence that Ms. Crosley is trying to bring to our awareness.
10