I lived in Egypt and I just came back few weeks ago. I live in USA and I can see those different interpretations and perspectives for the same situation. Therefore, for this part of the news I want to point the following:
- For this attack, it shows that temples and the touristic sights in Egypt are well secured, and the police or the security succeeded to secure the tourists and the civilians. They engaged professionally with the attackers although they had explosive and machine guns. What about if those terrorists were in New York, sorry to say it, we will not get the same protection. Go and see the parks everywhere, no security and we can be attacked not by professional terrorists but just by amateurs, and unfortunately we will not find the same protection in our country that our fellow Americans or other tourists get in Egypt.
- This prove Egypt became safe in spite of all the trials of terrorists, islamists,...etc.
- No one can confirm that EL SIS is a dictator, he was chosen by millions of Egyptians. Why do we accept the thrown of Mubarak by hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in 2011 and the army helped them, and we do not accept the thrown of the Islamic Regime by millions of Egyptians who went in the street and were helped by the same army in June 2014.
- For this attack, it shows that temples and the touristic sights in Egypt are well secured, and the police or the security succeeded to secure the tourists and the civilians. They engaged professionally with the attackers although they had explosive and machine guns. What about if those terrorists were in New York, sorry to say it, we will not get the same protection. Go and see the parks everywhere, no security and we can be attacked not by professional terrorists but just by amateurs, and unfortunately we will not find the same protection in our country that our fellow Americans or other tourists get in Egypt.
- This prove Egypt became safe in spite of all the trials of terrorists, islamists,...etc.
- No one can confirm that EL SIS is a dictator, he was chosen by millions of Egyptians. Why do we accept the thrown of Mubarak by hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in 2011 and the army helped them, and we do not accept the thrown of the Islamic Regime by millions of Egyptians who went in the street and were helped by the same army in June 2014.
by the way these are terrorists and they target anyone against their evil ideology; not the Sisi's "regime".
3
another example of destabilization gone awry.
Really when has US intervention in other countries ever borne positive results?
Really when has US intervention in other countries ever borne positive results?
1
For starters, Germany, Japan, Italy after the war: not only they help rebuild the devastated countries, but helped created strong and vibrant democracies.
Other successful interventions have included the toppling of Noriega's dictatorship in Panama, the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan (neither would have happened without the US).
The Dayton accords where a coup for the US in bringing peace to the former Yugoslavia when the Europeans who live there couldn't find the courage to do a thing.
Even Afghanistan, with all its corruption, is infinitely better off than it was with Al Qaeda running the show.
This is just a sampling.
Questions?
Other successful interventions have included the toppling of Noriega's dictatorship in Panama, the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan (neither would have happened without the US).
The Dayton accords where a coup for the US in bringing peace to the former Yugoslavia when the Europeans who live there couldn't find the courage to do a thing.
Even Afghanistan, with all its corruption, is infinitely better off than it was with Al Qaeda running the show.
This is just a sampling.
Questions?
2
I've just returned from a 10 days visit to Cairo, and have little patience for the sort of couch pontifications that frequently appear in these comments. The basic question we have to ask ourselves is whether it's in our best interests to have a so-called "democratically" elected Islamic fundamentalist government which would spawn extremist values in Egypt and its neighbors, or a military government with a declared and proven secular outlook and an immense antipathy for Islamic extremist movements currently active in the region. The wise ones amongst us will ponder this question and choose the latter option. We have a horrible track record in encouraging democracy in the region, so let's be wise and keep quiet.
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@ Tewfic el-Sawy: Wrong question. The basic question we have to ask ourselves is whether it's in THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE'S best interests to have a so-called "democratically" elected government, whether it is Islamist or not.
Your comment offers only a false choice between an: "elected Islamic fundamentalist government which would spawn extremist values in Egypt and its neighbors, or a military government".
I would suggest you look no further than the elections held just three days ago in neighboring Turkey. The results show that under a democratic system, an elected Islamist leader such as President Erdogan and his AKP party can be peacefully curtailed without having a military strongman overthrow the government by staging a coup, massacring thousands of his own citizens and sentencing the overthrown elected leader to death on undeserving charges as is the case with former President Morsi in Egypt.
The Turks who lived through numerous such military coups have managed to end the cycle and politically evolve beyond it. The Egyptian people deserve no less.
Your comment offers only a false choice between an: "elected Islamic fundamentalist government which would spawn extremist values in Egypt and its neighbors, or a military government".
I would suggest you look no further than the elections held just three days ago in neighboring Turkey. The results show that under a democratic system, an elected Islamist leader such as President Erdogan and his AKP party can be peacefully curtailed without having a military strongman overthrow the government by staging a coup, massacring thousands of his own citizens and sentencing the overthrown elected leader to death on undeserving charges as is the case with former President Morsi in Egypt.
The Turks who lived through numerous such military coups have managed to end the cycle and politically evolve beyond it. The Egyptian people deserve no less.
4
Mine is the right and vitally correct question...Abstract, lofty and grandiose theories do not work on the work. It is what some call as 'real-politik'. The best interests of the Egyptian people were certainly not served during the (thankfully) short-lived reign of the so-called democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood government. Those who describe it as "democratically" elected do not seem to realize that it came to power through gerrymandering, vote rigging, vote buying, threats, coercion, bribes and similar "democratic" mechanisms. Moreover, their actual governance is charitably described as extraordinarily incompetent...causing the economy to burn out, and taking actions that would establish Islamism as the main societal law in that country.
The Egyptians do deserve its own style of democratic system (not a copy of the USA's or Turkey's...their own version) when they are ready for it, and when the country's societal-political infrastructure allows it. They do not deserve a Islamist-style of government that came into power by being externally financed and using vote rigging techniques.
Had the Muslim Brotherhood remained in power, to now the couch pontificators would have swiftly abandoned their abstract ideals and clamored for a change.
Let's stay quiet and mind our own business for a change.
The Egyptians do deserve its own style of democratic system (not a copy of the USA's or Turkey's...their own version) when they are ready for it, and when the country's societal-political infrastructure allows it. They do not deserve a Islamist-style of government that came into power by being externally financed and using vote rigging techniques.
Had the Muslim Brotherhood remained in power, to now the couch pontificators would have swiftly abandoned their abstract ideals and clamored for a change.
Let's stay quiet and mind our own business for a change.
3
Yes Turkey curtailed Erdogan for the moment, but it was dodging a bullet, by a whisker! 2% of the vote different, and Erdogan would be re-writing the constitution right now to lock in his power. With these religious parties, it is a one-way ticket --- out of democracy. They use democracy until they have enough power to change the laws/constitution to be more Islamic. It is a ride that ends with Iran -- no way back to true democracy.
Turkey is very fortunate to have a long history of secularism and democracy, and just enough electorate to realize what was hanging in the balance in that election. Other countries like Egypt are in an even more precarious position.
Turkey is very fortunate to have a long history of secularism and democracy, and just enough electorate to realize what was hanging in the balance in that election. Other countries like Egypt are in an even more precarious position.
1
I've visited Egypt dozens of times over the last fifteen years, most recently in April of this year. After two revolutions and continuing severe economic problems, it was striking to see how little things have changed in recent years. It is impossible even for Egyptians to assess the situation, but a good case could be made that it is actually less dangerous for visitors now than at any time since the first contemporary revolution. Personally, I was physically threatened in Egypt during the height of the second Bush administration. I haven't seen anything like that antipathy on the street recently.
1
It's obvious that militants target Egypt's tourist sites, in an effort to cripple its industry. The number of foreign tourists visiting Egypt has been increasing in recent months, after the 2011 revolution that ousted Hosni Mubarak and the overthrow of Mohammed Morsi by the military in 2013.
The "mass shooting in 1997" killed 36 Swiss tourists. Egypt quickly blamed a local Islamist gang, all of whom were shot by police near the scene.
A Swiss inquiry concluded that the attack was carried out by Islamists wanting to hurt tourism and destabilise the Egyptian government. Questions remained unanswered as who was behind the attack and why was the temple unprotected.
The "mass shooting in 1997" killed 36 Swiss tourists. Egypt quickly blamed a local Islamist gang, all of whom were shot by police near the scene.
A Swiss inquiry concluded that the attack was carried out by Islamists wanting to hurt tourism and destabilise the Egyptian government. Questions remained unanswered as who was behind the attack and why was the temple unprotected.
3
Fear turns to anger, anger to hatred, and hatred to self destruction. In this case the self destruction is the destruction of our shared human interested in our cultural heritage. No one benefits,
3
The Muslim Brotherhood murdered Anwar Sadat and opened fire on tourists at Karnak decades ago.
They haven't changed. The Obama administration threw Mubarak (at least a secularist whose wife was campaigning hard to do away with female genital mutilation as an Egyotian societal norm -- some norm!) under a bus and welcomed and lauded Morsi. It's as if America has no sense of history and sees only what it wants to see.
Mubarak could have done some things better, no doubt. The Muslim Brotherhood, though, is real trouble for Egypt.
They haven't changed. The Obama administration threw Mubarak (at least a secularist whose wife was campaigning hard to do away with female genital mutilation as an Egyotian societal norm -- some norm!) under a bus and welcomed and lauded Morsi. It's as if America has no sense of history and sees only what it wants to see.
Mubarak could have done some things better, no doubt. The Muslim Brotherhood, though, is real trouble for Egypt.
7
Another one who thinks the U.S. should have bombed the citizens uprising in Tahrir Square to keep them compliant. It's as if conservative Americans have no sense of history, they feel people in the mideast need to be kept docile and pacified under the heavy hands of dictators and that we should support that to the bitter end.
3
When a dictator unseats a democratically elected president your bound to have trouble. Why anyone would want to travel to this region at this time is beyond comprehension.
1
Yes, this is serious, indeed.
It´s not right that we wealthy western tourists can´t take their vacations in safety.
We in the U.S. need to bulk up our support for murderous dictators like al-Sisi.
It´s not right that we wealthy western tourists can´t take their vacations in safety.
We in the U.S. need to bulk up our support for murderous dictators like al-Sisi.
5
All those disparate attacks are planned and executed by the Moslem Brotherhood, which the US government and the NY Times still refer to them as "moderate Islamists." They created all these various groups, with different names, to do all the dirty terrorist work for them, like this arrack and others for the last couple of years. but the Egyptian people know better than, because they are fully familiar with their history as a terrorist organization and they have fully supported President El Sisi and all the measures he has taken against them and their suuporters .
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@ E. Reda: If your assumption that "the Egyptian people ... have fully supported President El Sisi" was correct, Sisi and his henchmen would hardly feel the need to kill thousands of anti-dictatorship demonstrators in the streets, to sentence thousands more to death in mass trials and to prohibit all forms of political association and freedom of expression other than in support of the regime. A government secure in the support of its people would not need to resort to such totalitarian measures.
6
Hundreds not thousands of terrorists who also killed hundreds of security personnel and at least on the internet media is not censored in Egypt
The Brotherhood led the attacks way back when Egypt had a military dictatorship with fraudulent elections and mucho American money to support it all. Nothing went to the people and the money was nothing short of a bribe to the military leadership to keep peace between Egypt and Israel. Then came the uprising and the President is tried and sentenced to prison (or maybe death). He survives and the new elected government run by a leader of the Brotherhood tries to establish control over the military. The military as it will here if needed takes over and puts the new President in jail, tries him and sentences him to death. The old President is given judicial relief and a new election or whatever it could be called brings on a new President. And that invokes a renewal of Brotherhood type attack on tourists.
When will Americans learn the fine art of recycling governments as well as the military leadership in Egypt? Woops! We did already and exported it to all the dictatorial friends we have around the world.
So the wars go on. Korea. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan.
Name any country where some American corporation needs a hand to suppress democracy, independence, and local freedom from American corporate control and we 'got' an army ready to fight for you. And with economic conditions as they are in America there is always a new crop of youngsters who will fight [but for what]?
The Mission? for democracy? for freedom? for America's values?
Poor souls! They have not a clue.
When will Americans learn the fine art of recycling governments as well as the military leadership in Egypt? Woops! We did already and exported it to all the dictatorial friends we have around the world.
So the wars go on. Korea. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan.
Name any country where some American corporation needs a hand to suppress democracy, independence, and local freedom from American corporate control and we 'got' an army ready to fight for you. And with economic conditions as they are in America there is always a new crop of youngsters who will fight [but for what]?
The Mission? for democracy? for freedom? for America's values?
Poor souls! They have not a clue.
3
I'm sure the vast majority of Egyptians considers these horrific attacks by sociopaths and fanatics as revolting as the rest of us. Their country is rapidly spiraling downward, plagued not only by authoritarian abuses of the military, but by an increasing sense of powerlessness among the middle-class, the liberal, and the educated, watching as their country is being overrun by radicalism and government incompetence amid increasing poverty.
12
This is exactly the case, acts of violence and terrorism is one of the main reasons for the decline in investments & tourism sectors which the country relies on as a steady source of foreign currencies, millions of people get affected negatively from such acts... The economy here is starting to boom and every time it does, militants and terrorists show us their true aims. I'm glad no tourists got killed or injured.
2
Message to General/President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, supreme ruler of Egypt:
" ... for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap"
" ... for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap"
2
Perhaps in their delusional thinking The IS thinks they will restart the clock of civilization after they eradicate all that civilization rests upon.
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It is delusional to think that your "civilization" rests on such solid footing that it cannot be eradicated.
We are a "civilization" of obese overconsuming people, who are not willing to sacrifice anything, who think about nothing but our next vacation, or the next gadget we can buy.
We are a "civilization" of obese overconsuming people, who are not willing to sacrifice anything, who think about nothing but our next vacation, or the next gadget we can buy.
2
The delusional thinking of people here in the U.S, who believe we in the U.S. are inherently superior to ISIS, even though we participate in the same sorts of crimes against humanity that ISIS commits, certainly helps ISIS.
It would be nice if we in the U.S. actually stood for something besides corporate greed, racism and beating down the poor, both at home and abroad.
It would be nice if we in the U.S. actually stood for something besides corporate greed, racism and beating down the poor, both at home and abroad.
3
Mr. Davis, the fat Western slugs you like to despise invented the medicines that the entire world benefits by and the devices that make most people's lives easier. When Islamists invent something, let me know. As of right now, all they do is utilize their "enemies' " technologies to wreak havoc.
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When the military crushed an honest people's revolution, they guaranteed violence. Neither Saudi nor Israel will be able to prevent a slow descent into Syrian style chaos. Only the military can do that with a fair constitution and elections.
3
You are right.
However, unfortunately Egyptians have had their one chance this century, or maybe even this millenium.
Egyptians stupidly chose Morsi, which played right into the hands of the Egyptian military.
However, unfortunately Egyptians have had their one chance this century, or maybe even this millenium.
Egyptians stupidly chose Morsi, which played right into the hands of the Egyptian military.
3
Attacks against Egypt's tourism industry will weaken even further a fragile economy surviving on military aid from America and money from the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia. The worrisome question is whether Egypt -ruled by a dictatorship - could become another Iraq or Syria.