I know I'm in the minority but I've had enough of this Caitlyn Jenner. Posing in sultry gowns and expressions with a lot of photoshop on the cover of Vanity Fair is not representing anybody, let alone transgenders. It is like coming out of a debutante ( gown and all ) except that this a 69 yr. old narcissist trying to get free publicity for his ( sorry, her ) reality show. Caitlyn is really doing great harm because being transgender is not about lipstick and painted nails. It is all about the struggle where the body is one way while the mind is totally opposite. The confusion and pain that ensues is real. And so is the cruelty that they have to face and endure. This Jenner is only adding insult to injury. Time to put her on the back-burner.
49
I make no blanket endorsement nor condemnation of “sex reassignment surgery” or medical operations like that. But I’d like to state this: I was born a physical male & I'm sure I have the XY chromosome, but I have, from the beginning, had life-long attitudes & interests conventionally considered by society as "feminine". Being brought up in a highly macho poor urban environment, I can tell you that I've been made to suffer for these tendencies physically & especially psychologically, and I've hated myself at times. It's caused me clinical depression and a serious suicide attempt once. I began to become healthy and happy, and have remained so, after I learned to accept myself for what I am (as long as it hurts no one) regardless of what others think or social conventions. I believe "gender" is overall best conceived as being closer to a continuum or bimodal distribution rather than a sharp dichotomy. We should allow people freedom to do what they like as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's freedom.
59
Gender is a meta physical construct. Gender is an intangible idea. Gender is a theory. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY can demonstrate 'gender' to be tangibly REAL or genetic. Neither can anyone conclusively claim that 'gender' is conditioned, chosen, acted out, and or present from birth. It is of no greater or less importance to whom or what a person is, -aka personal 'identity' - then the color of your eyes, the structure of your face, or the shade of your skin. To be male or female , or both, is an aesthetic question. It is a problem of a society obsessed with how it looks and what parts they have and not who they are. STOP PANDERING TO THE PLASTIC SURGERY LOBBY.
10
It’s important to understand why a person feels unable to take on and play the socio-cultural role (as he sees it) associated with his biological sex. A parent would want to understand whether the sense of alienation a child has from his biological sex is accompanied by discomfort with his body or its attributes, even loathing of it; whether this sense has developed through his own reaction to his body and observation of others, or has been informed and influenced by how others react to him, that others did not see him or treat him as a “proper” boy, or has developed based on strong empathy or identification with the feminine role, which he recognizes is conferred based on the physical appearance of the opposite sex, which he must then adopt. Is there a space for gender between rejection of one and acceptance of the other?
7
Read Middlemarch by Jeffery Eugenides
1
While all transgender teenagers are at a higher risk for suicide and bullying, and all deserve an accepting place at a school like this, I wish that you had discussed the major difference in experiences between trans men or DFAB trans people and trans women. Trans women (particularly trans women of color) face a disproportionate amount of violence in comparison to trans-men and other members of the LGBTQ community. Some studies have found that trans women make up 50% of LGBTQ murders, despite being only 1% of the LGBTQ community. It is disingenuous to discuss trans issues and Caitlyn Jenner without specifically addressing trans-misogyny and its intersection racism.
17
None of this is new. In your upcoming trip to Nepal and India, I encourage you to explore the rich history of people who are third gender, Mr. Kristof. Some cultures here on the American continent had systems of 5 genders, even 7 genders.
The idea that there are only 2 genders, and that they are rigid, is a form of state oppression that has fueled capitalism and colonialism. It is a system social violence that maintains patriarchy, keeping female-bodied people in check and femininity repressed and relegated to a form of weakness.
The idea that there are only 2 genders, and that they are rigid, is a form of state oppression that has fueled capitalism and colonialism. It is a system social violence that maintains patriarchy, keeping female-bodied people in check and femininity repressed and relegated to a form of weakness.
9
Several people have brought up the bathroom issue. I'm reminded of the recurring bathroom scenes in the TV show "Ally McBeal", in which the law firm created a unisex bathroom (with enclosed stalls, no urinals, as I remember it) - and everyone eventually got over any discomfort and just used the facilities. In our homes, we *all* have what are essentially "unisex" bathrooms - why are we so upset by the idea in schools, offices, etc? Perhaps because at home you're sharing with people/someone you know and care about, not perfect strangers. Then perhaps the solution is not new or additional "others" bathrooms, but better-constructed-for-privacy unisex bathrooms. Just a thought.
13
Someone tell me what's a "girl," what's a "boy," what's a "man," what's a "woman" that it's so psychologically, indeed, seemingly metaphysically urgent to be one and not the other. (No shortage of pragmatic socioeconomic reasons, but that's a different matter that, sadly, still all runs one way.) When I listen to transgender talk, including from people I know and love, I hear little but an embarrassing string of the worst clichéd gender stereotypes that would be grounds for a lawsuit if enunciated by an employer in the workplace. I perfectly accept that they feel "other" than the cultural label placed on their biology. To varying degrees, who doesn't? But sometimes I just want to interrupt their talk about themselves and give them a good shake: Who says you can't be a "man" with those feelings? Who says you can't be a "woman" with those feelings? Whose validation are you so desperate for and why? Definitely, do what it takes to feel right with yourself - I'm all for you - but a little more examination of the obsessive cultural baggage we all bring to even our deepest, seemingly rock-bottom sense of Self is in order, on your way to buy those utterly tasteless pink high heels.
40
Safe supportive schools that allow kids to lead authentic lives are life-savers. You make excellent points, as does DLP and some other readers.
The question that never seems to be addressed is: What IS gender?
As a married straight adult woman with no interest in high heels or make-up, whose sons chose pink bicycles and played with dolls as well as race cars (I never allowed toy guns) -- I can't figure out what exactly we are talking about when we talk about gender.
The question that never seems to be addressed is: What IS gender?
As a married straight adult woman with no interest in high heels or make-up, whose sons chose pink bicycles and played with dolls as well as race cars (I never allowed toy guns) -- I can't figure out what exactly we are talking about when we talk about gender.
12
This 69yo woman remembers meeting a distraught young person 50 years ago who stated that I couldn't understand her issues because I took sexuality, male/female as obviously categorical. S/he informed me that wasn't the case for everyone and especially for her/himself.
1
I am speechless from most of these comments. Why does anyone care whether someone wants to be "boy" or a "girl"?? I am thankful to live in a place where kids can be who they are and express themselves freely and where students, teachers, and parents don't think twice about it. One "transgender" student last year was a leader in our music program and admired by her peers for her great talent... all else was a non-issue. Move on folks.
30
I had no idea growing up that I could have chosen my gender. Should've gone with female. Then about two-thirds of public discourse would be about my gender's issues.
6
I think the question of whether the children described in the article are psychologically healthy is a valid one. The rhetoric of "fluidity," used by Miley Cyrus and others, may have the effect of short-circuiting that question (nature versus convention). I also think that the question of the psychological health of the children, and what best promotes that health, is one that should be of interest to principals. Acceptance and decency shown by others is an important issue, but not the only relevant one.
22
I think coverage of gender and sexuality issues is important, but so is other news. While the NY Times managed to cover both Caitlyn Jenner and the various presidential campaign announcements as well as a smattering of international stuff, many media outlets became so distracted by a transgender celebrity that they forgot to cover everything else. I expect newspapers and magazines to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
11
At the heart of the matter I believe is we humans are short on accepting differences regardless what the differences are. And that of course includes those among us born in the body of one gender but whose soul is another. Differences seem to be registered in the human brain as a threat. Maybe that's a hold over in the lizard brain from our ancient past when differences often meant danger. Thus unfortunately a present day common reaction to differences--which are often still misconstrued as threat--is annihilation, separation, or at least expulsion via humiliation. And these kinds of reactions are often unconsciously motivated with no understanding of why. Thus it would behoove us all to teach our young and learn ourselves how to thwart this primitive tendency by bringing to the fore its roots of understanding and then learning to consciously override that once necessary for survival instinct and instead ideally respond to all our brothers and sisters with compassion and acceptance.
20
Imagine Meryl Streep cutting her hair, taking testosterone, growing a moustache and then appearing on the cover of a sports magazine, dressed in football gear, and giving an interview about how "masculine" he/she has always felt. Would people call him/her "brave?" Would men and football players welcome him/her into their ranks as one of them?
Life is unfair. You are not born into a middle or upper class family. You have physical impairments, illnesses or shortcomings. You are Polish and you yearn to be Italian. You are short and wish you were tall. You are physically one gender, and feel or wish you were another. Life is not fair, but I think you should just deal with it. It is silly, selfish and self-centered to rail against the hand you were dealt with when other people, literally, do not have enough to eat, a decent place to live or a safe environment. Life is disappointment of one kind or another. Transcending your disappointments is more noble than insisting the world should help you in pretending that you are something you wish you were, but are not.
Life is unfair. You are not born into a middle or upper class family. You have physical impairments, illnesses or shortcomings. You are Polish and you yearn to be Italian. You are short and wish you were tall. You are physically one gender, and feel or wish you were another. Life is not fair, but I think you should just deal with it. It is silly, selfish and self-centered to rail against the hand you were dealt with when other people, literally, do not have enough to eat, a decent place to live or a safe environment. Life is disappointment of one kind or another. Transcending your disappointments is more noble than insisting the world should help you in pretending that you are something you wish you were, but are not.
79
Thank you so very much. This would top the list of what I would refer to as a "1st World Problem."
17
Chalk it all up to the invention of the birth-control pill. In the early sixties when I was in college, the difference between the sexes was very, very clear. The girl could easily get pregnant, and (shriek!) too often did at a time when abortion was illegal and futures were ruined. Now that we've fixed all that, what does it matter who does what when where with whom, and what we call it, and where we pee? Once again, our society is slow to catch up with our technology, and Bruce/Caitlyn is making a buck or two off the uptake along the way with his/her usual dramatic flair (that hasn't changed). Lighten up, everybody! In the end, men will stay men and women will stay women, joined by a third group calling itself something else. And yes, this third group deserves the same rights and respect as the first two.
11
Mr. Kristof, you didn't mention a single transgender male!
maybe Joshua?
2
I think many people miss the bottom line with Caitlyn Jenner.
And I think she does, too.
She doesn't want to be a woman.
She wants to be an image.
Those are two very different ballgames.
And I think she does, too.
She doesn't want to be a woman.
She wants to be an image.
Those are two very different ballgames.
50
Not really. She wants to be a particular type of woman ... one whom I don't particularly identify with. I'm not into clothes, makeup, posing for the camera, or whatever. But women come in all different types. She's entitled to be the type she wants to be.
6
Two iconic, (for numerous positive human developments which have flowed out of them), and one world renowned Brooklyn high schools, Franklin D. Roosevelt and New Utrecht are celebrating their glorious 50th and 100th anniversaries, respectively this year, and this is more important?! With all due respect, I just don't get it!
7
I'm glad to see that you put a more thoughtful spin on the Caitlyn Jenner-Transgender story with your piece today, "Transgender Kids Tell Their Story" and the list of useful resources included. However, you missed a great resource right in your own backyard: the TransParentcy group run by Westchester Jewish Community Services Center Lane program.
Center Lane is the only community center for LGBTQ youth 13-21 and their allies, and the TransParentcy group is a key component. It's probably the only support group for parents. The bi-weekly groups meet concurrently with youth in one room and parents in another where they share experiences with peers and receive feedback and support. Trained facilitators oversee the groups and ensure a supportive, nurturing environment.
Center Lane also offers a bi-weekly Young Adult trans* Group for young adults that identify as Trans* (transgender, gender-fluid, gender non-conforming, and youth questioning their gender identity). The group is for youth ages 18-21, and is a process group. There's also a Friday Night youth support group for 13-21 year olds.
Center Lane offers individual supportive counseling to youth and their families. More information about groups is at www.centerlaneny.org.
Center Lane is the only community center for LGBTQ youth 13-21 and their allies, and the TransParentcy group is a key component. It's probably the only support group for parents. The bi-weekly groups meet concurrently with youth in one room and parents in another where they share experiences with peers and receive feedback and support. Trained facilitators oversee the groups and ensure a supportive, nurturing environment.
Center Lane also offers a bi-weekly Young Adult trans* Group for young adults that identify as Trans* (transgender, gender-fluid, gender non-conforming, and youth questioning their gender identity). The group is for youth ages 18-21, and is a process group. There's also a Friday Night youth support group for 13-21 year olds.
Center Lane offers individual supportive counseling to youth and their families. More information about groups is at www.centerlaneny.org.
6
Though high school is rarely the place to find warm and sympathetic reactions especially when it comes to sexual roles, no one should be bullied or made to feel miserable. Two things Id o not understand about the transgender issue. How prevalent is it? Is it predominantly a psychological issue or is there a chromosome issue as well?
1
So much ink wasted recently on this insignificant and infuriating subject.
41
Gender and sex are not the same. This is such Cultural Studies 101 that I'm bemused people are fighting over it. Is being a woman in Saudi Arabia the same thing as being a woman in San Francisco? Really? And what does reproduction have to do with psychological gender? Some biologically female people have no desire to reproduce, some want but cannot, and some who do find that their emotional experience of the process is completely different from that of their peers. I love fashion but dislike babies. So am I a woman? I love math - should I declare myself to be a man? The simple answer is that our culture is transitioning to a much more fluid definition of gender, and this is wonderful thing.
27
Neither courage nor humanity nor empathy nor humility nor inspiration are traits that I would ascribe to the rich famous powerful narcissistic selfish 65 year old white man named Bruce Jenner nor white woman named Caitlyn Jenner. There is nothing quite like being poor and black and brown in America no matter your LGBT or other status. There is no closet nor refuge nor reservation nor ghetto to hide or deny being colored in America.
There is neither complexity nor certain equal unalienable rights for all. White gay men rank at the top of the socioeconomic political educational privileged plutocrat corporate perch. My LGBT colored family and friends see Jenner as distracting entertainment with no relevance to their lives past, present or future.
There is neither complexity nor certain equal unalienable rights for all. White gay men rank at the top of the socioeconomic political educational privileged plutocrat corporate perch. My LGBT colored family and friends see Jenner as distracting entertainment with no relevance to their lives past, present or future.
34
the school in this article is surely very acceptable to a small group of people who felt they had hard time identify them self to a gender that they were born with. The way I see it is each single case of these kids are different and just like other problems kids face growing up, some need to be adjusted and some don't. If the ender identifying difficulty came along with this person's birth rather than was induced by a horribly wrong environment growing up, the problem should not be adjusted. The thing is it doesn't require any human being to belong to a certain gender to be decent to others in the society. Society can learn to be less harsh and more supportive when it comes to people with this rare issue, or just everything else in general.
3
Can you imagine being a young person today and having to deal with all this insanity...?
23
‘Baby’, ‘child’, ‘boy’, ‘girl’, ‘teenager’, ‘man’, ‘woman’. These are contemporary English-language labels for human animals that contain little scientific information but much cultural information. The labels tell us something about the perceived but also much about the perceiver. Humans like to categorise all living things, to label and to differentiate between them for all sorts of reasons. Anyone who is a botanist or a zoologist knows this and acknowledges the importance of labelling from the purely practical perspective of communicating scientific information.
Traditionally, however, humans engaged not in science but in hunting, and then later in the rearing and breeding of livestock, also have named animals at different stages of their life cycles. Consider for example the English names for salmon at different stages: eggs; alevins; fry; parr; smolts; adults; kelts. Consider foal; filly; colt; gelding; mare; stallion.
Many English speakers, including journalists, don’t understand even the basics of mammalian anatomy - for example, they don't understand the difference between the vulva and the vagina, frequently referring to the former as the latter. Hence, the opinions and prejudices of the uninformed must count for little here. Instead of anecdote, we must look to the published literature in comparative anatomy and physiology, to physical and to cultural anthropology, to observational studies of primates and other species in the wild. And to those directly affected.
Traditionally, however, humans engaged not in science but in hunting, and then later in the rearing and breeding of livestock, also have named animals at different stages of their life cycles. Consider for example the English names for salmon at different stages: eggs; alevins; fry; parr; smolts; adults; kelts. Consider foal; filly; colt; gelding; mare; stallion.
Many English speakers, including journalists, don’t understand even the basics of mammalian anatomy - for example, they don't understand the difference between the vulva and the vagina, frequently referring to the former as the latter. Hence, the opinions and prejudices of the uninformed must count for little here. Instead of anecdote, we must look to the published literature in comparative anatomy and physiology, to physical and to cultural anthropology, to observational studies of primates and other species in the wild. And to those directly affected.
4
I suppose all the attention that Jenner has brought to this subject is helpful to transgender individuals. But, I am not convinced, and logic would certainly say, that his ability to make a fortune from this issue could have been more influential than any natural and personal impulses and needs he may have been harboring. He is very self-involved person despite his athletic accomplishments of years ago, he finds himself outmatched by a crew of upstarts in California and probably sees himself as a has-been, fifth wheel who ruined himself with plastic surgery. So....why not keep going with the surgery. I don't think the surgery is doing anything irreversible and dramatic.....if you follow me.
I would think differently if he planned to give 99% of his newly found income to help other less fortunate transgender individuals rather than just buying a bigger house and more cars for himself.
I would think differently if he planned to give 99% of his newly found income to help other less fortunate transgender individuals rather than just buying a bigger house and more cars for himself.
57
There have always been people who felt that they did not belong in the body they were born with when it came to gender. Some societies made allowances for this. Others did not. What bothers me about this whole phenomenon is that it seems to be a fad rather than something that is a serious discussion between families, doctors, and the people who feel this way. It reminds of the fad on ADHD, being gay or lesbian, being classified as autistic, etc. At one point these problems have been seized upon as the magic issue to every problem confronting a young person or an adult.
Do I doubt that gender dysphoria exists? No. Are there people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender? Yes. Is ADHD a problem? Yes but not as much as a lack of exercise during the school day or intolerance for a child's need to be active. Is autism a real problem? Yes, I have an autistic brother. But I've seen each of these things become the problem du jour and it's trivialized the real issues that the people and families affected have to deal with. Let's no do this with gender dysphoria. Please.
Do I doubt that gender dysphoria exists? No. Are there people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender? Yes. Is ADHD a problem? Yes but not as much as a lack of exercise during the school day or intolerance for a child's need to be active. Is autism a real problem? Yes, I have an autistic brother. But I've seen each of these things become the problem du jour and it's trivialized the real issues that the people and families affected have to deal with. Let's no do this with gender dysphoria. Please.
75
You make a point. The media treatment is starting to look like a fad. That does not mean that the underlying subject matter is suddenly faddish. Rather, the media focus is revealing what was there all along, and there are still plenty of today's NYT readers (to judge by the predictably negative comments to these stories) who need to read their way past their prejudices by being exposed to facts.
4
"TRANSGENDER" . . .
Frankly, as a psychologist, I don't understand this phenomenon. It seems to be the most recent advent in the change of sexual and gender roles. I would ask if these cultural changes which have occurred so quickly in recent years have created an ambience which has promoted this newest category.
If so, let me posit that there is a fine line between freedom, liberation and a general societal decadence?
Is this truly a genetic or other caused condition or the result of a galloping culture? I ask this question simply because I don't know.
Frankly, as a psychologist, I don't understand this phenomenon. It seems to be the most recent advent in the change of sexual and gender roles. I would ask if these cultural changes which have occurred so quickly in recent years have created an ambience which has promoted this newest category.
If so, let me posit that there is a fine line between freedom, liberation and a general societal decadence?
Is this truly a genetic or other caused condition or the result of a galloping culture? I ask this question simply because I don't know.
33
It's both.
3
No doubt there have always been people who just do not feel like the gender they were "assigned" at birth. It certainly does seem as though cultural expansion is allowing for more thought, experimenting and boundary pushing in regards to gender. I wonder if some of the apparent yo-yoing in some adolescents will coalesce into more definitive gender identification in emerging adulthood or a bit later? I'm not walking in her/his/their shoes, so I'm less inclined to be judgmental about how one wants to identify, or not in gender. As a grad student in counseling psychology, I certainly find the suicide rate in the LGBTQ cohort very alarming, and feel the need to learn more and judge less.
25
Several years ago, I read of a study of fish upstream and downstream from a wastewater treatment plant. The upstream fish were half female and half male. The downstream fish were a mix of female, male, and androgynous fish. If that's happening to our fish, what is happening to us and the ever-larger chemical soup we float in?
2
"High school...is really about preparing young people for the incredibly messy and complex world we live in."
No wiser words were ever spoken by an educator. And no amount of standardized testing will get you there.
No wiser words were ever spoken by an educator. And no amount of standardized testing will get you there.
121
The discussion here & in other media, I am struck by the separatist language that so often appears - tolerance, "they", other - & the difficulty in finding the proper pronouns & adjectives when discussing diversity of gender.
Appearances are fluid, as are the genetics/DNA of each of us. Yet we persist (as a nation? as a people?) to want to identify ourselves and those around us.
Women have been pushing since the days of suffragettes for equal rights. African-Americans (oops, another label) still have issues specific to their race. Many states have yet to accept (tolerate?) the idea that we can love another person regardless of gender to the level of lifetime commitment. Many religions feel compelled to include in their fold only persons who meet their particular self-proclaimed moral standard.
Jenner was criticized roundly (in NYT comments) for over-the-top trappings of what is often perceived to be "feminine"....yet readers ooh & ah over the annual swimsuit issue and the sexiest man alive announcement.
If we only were open, and sincerely respectful of our species, we would look for traits in our fellow humans that we enjoy and appreciate - are they kind, funny, compassionate, industrious - and be able to use that criteria to build our relationships with them. We would all be richer for it.
Throw the labels away - will all be happier! Kudos to the educators here who have encouraged a safe environment, focusing on education rather than gender identity.
Appearances are fluid, as are the genetics/DNA of each of us. Yet we persist (as a nation? as a people?) to want to identify ourselves and those around us.
Women have been pushing since the days of suffragettes for equal rights. African-Americans (oops, another label) still have issues specific to their race. Many states have yet to accept (tolerate?) the idea that we can love another person regardless of gender to the level of lifetime commitment. Many religions feel compelled to include in their fold only persons who meet their particular self-proclaimed moral standard.
Jenner was criticized roundly (in NYT comments) for over-the-top trappings of what is often perceived to be "feminine"....yet readers ooh & ah over the annual swimsuit issue and the sexiest man alive announcement.
If we only were open, and sincerely respectful of our species, we would look for traits in our fellow humans that we enjoy and appreciate - are they kind, funny, compassionate, industrious - and be able to use that criteria to build our relationships with them. We would all be richer for it.
Throw the labels away - will all be happier! Kudos to the educators here who have encouraged a safe environment, focusing on education rather than gender identity.
24
"genetics/DNA...are fluid"
No. DNA is not in the least fluid. The cellular processes are remarkable for their ability to ensure there are very few base pair changes in the DNA. The DNA in your cells is a mixture of your ancestors, to be sure, but is otherwise very nearly unchanged over millions of years. That is not "fluid".
.
What humans imagine, on the other hand, is fluid.
No. DNA is not in the least fluid. The cellular processes are remarkable for their ability to ensure there are very few base pair changes in the DNA. The DNA in your cells is a mixture of your ancestors, to be sure, but is otherwise very nearly unchanged over millions of years. That is not "fluid".
.
What humans imagine, on the other hand, is fluid.
34
There are enough issues in our country to keep us reeling for decades to come. We have transgender issues, gay and lesbian issues, green issues, climate change issues, privacy issues, women’s rights and abortion issues, taxation issues, war issues, veteran issues . . . the list is both too long long and overwhelming.
If we were, as a united country, willing to accept and think through these many areas of discord with open minds and hearts, we would be a nation worthy of great praise. But we are not! We would rather pick and attack and fuss and fume.
What would the United States be like if we somehow managed to pull together? Our politics are disparate and we add to the confusion by making our many issues political. Sigh . . .
If we were, as a united country, willing to accept and think through these many areas of discord with open minds and hearts, we would be a nation worthy of great praise. But we are not! We would rather pick and attack and fuss and fume.
What would the United States be like if we somehow managed to pull together? Our politics are disparate and we add to the confusion by making our many issues political. Sigh . . .
7
I worked for over 30 years at a large aerospace company, and during that time I came in contact with two transgender individuals (both male to female). Yes, there were snickers about them and concern about which bathroom they used (the company actually built them a separate facility), but after the hub-bub died down the only issue was whether they could do the required technical work, and both performed admirably, so it really didn't matter that they were transgender.
19
Appreciate an article that provides a fuller picture of what principals and teachers do in schools. With all the emphasis on test scores, races to the top, and preparing youth for global competition, what is often forgotten is the human side of working with young people who are trying to make sense out of who they are and where they fit into the world. Having been a high school principal, when I entered the building each day, I did gave little thought to test scores, I did think a lot about the students described in this article, the teacher who had cancer, the student who overdosed on drugs in our lunchroom, and the rumors of a gang confrontation after school that day. Sorry, Mr. Duncan, but your race to the top was not at the top of my to do list.
42
"I asked Winkfield what she would say to principals leery of sensitive gender issues. High school isn’t just about getting students college-ready, she said, but also about getting them world-ready.
“It’s easy to make this a granular issue about bathrooms or sexuality,” she said. “It’s really about preparing young people for the incredibly messy and complex world we live in.”"
Have you ever heard a better description of what school is all about - for all of us? Courtney Winkfield is an example of what a principal and teacher should be. She should be leading the New York City Department of Education. God bless her and those who think and act like her, they will be the ones to truly educate and prepare our children for life, however they decide to live it.
“It’s easy to make this a granular issue about bathrooms or sexuality,” she said. “It’s really about preparing young people for the incredibly messy and complex world we live in.”"
Have you ever heard a better description of what school is all about - for all of us? Courtney Winkfield is an example of what a principal and teacher should be. She should be leading the New York City Department of Education. God bless her and those who think and act like her, they will be the ones to truly educate and prepare our children for life, however they decide to live it.
26
It is funny - "reverted to boys' clothing" - stop making this about a war between genders, and embrace gender fluidity as an option and make single person bathrooms required occasionally for anyone who is not comfortable in a boys or girls room for whatever reason.
I think we all need to go back to watching "It's Pat" on old SNL episodes. The key is that it is everyone else who is concerned about Pat's gender, NOT Pat. Pat being oblivious, even very polite, to all the probing questions is how it should be.
I think we all need to go back to watching "It's Pat" on old SNL episodes. The key is that it is everyone else who is concerned about Pat's gender, NOT Pat. Pat being oblivious, even very polite, to all the probing questions is how it should be.
11
I don't think "It's Pat" was too instructive. The point was always to keep you guessing about Pat's gender. Maybe Pat wasn't concerned about gender, but everyone else was.
Also, how many people would want to be Pat? Notice that the movie made from the skit didn't do very well.
Also, how many people would want to be Pat? Notice that the movie made from the skit didn't do very well.
A recent article by a parent of a transgenders son stated " Better a live son than a dead daughter". I had long ago come around on LGBT issues but that really drilled it home. Enough lost lives.
50
I am not being judgemental, I just don't understand. Homesexuality, yes. But the idea that one have female parts and insist on, not just thinking and identifying, but functioning as male and vice versa is confusing. A girl transgenders to a boy using a boy's restroom can still be raped, right? What happen when "he" gets raped then gets pregnant? I understand that usually any surgical procedure is not done till when they are older. What do they think when they start menstruating? Although drug can perhaps stop the menstruatiion, but it would not physically be healthy for "him."
If they are boys transgendered to girls and want to use the girls' restroom, should their rights overide that of other girls who may not be comfortable with someone with male parts being in there with them?
As for sports, there is good reason why we have girls' and boys' teams, right? If not, let's just have mix gender team and problem would be solved for the transgenders.
I am happy to accept them as they want to be acceptable, but I doubt that their life can be just like another male or female, as usual, practically speaking.
If they are boys transgendered to girls and want to use the girls' restroom, should their rights overide that of other girls who may not be comfortable with someone with male parts being in there with them?
As for sports, there is good reason why we have girls' and boys' teams, right? If not, let's just have mix gender team and problem would be solved for the transgenders.
I am happy to accept them as they want to be acceptable, but I doubt that their life can be just like another male or female, as usual, practically speaking.
24
Unless you are inspecting the private parts of every person sharing a public bathroom with you, it really does not matter. I hope you can live a full, enriched life without meddling into the personal affairs of people who are different from you.
1
Medical science can change gender but it can't add the fertility part.
I'm sure that there are many things that are confusing/unrelateable for those on the outside -- why would anyone get a tattoo, how can you eat that food that tastes disgusting to me, how can you stand living in a big city, etc. -- but human societies have long been fairly obsessed with gender/gender roles, so it makes sense that not understanding this can be such a sticking point. Your questions seem to not be addressing what the person is experiencing as far as their internal personal identity but the practical effects on how they function in society.
Anyone can be raped, male or female. If a person gets pregnant, then we treat their health.
What "they" think when, for example, menstruation starts varies from person to person, as they are individuals, but often, puberty can be an emotionally traumatic experience. A body that a person might never have felt comfortable with (probably mostly with how others perceived it, since prepubescent human bodies are relatively similar between sexes except for the dangly bits) suddenly begins transforming into something dramatically foreign to their internal identity. Puberty blocking drugs do exist -- they're relatively new, medically speaking, so while long-term effects aren't yet established, they seem to be at least safe in the short-term, while easing the mental/emotional trauma.
Societies can change! (E.g., marriage equality, women voting.) We just need to figure it out as we go, with as much kindness and respect as possible.
Anyone can be raped, male or female. If a person gets pregnant, then we treat their health.
What "they" think when, for example, menstruation starts varies from person to person, as they are individuals, but often, puberty can be an emotionally traumatic experience. A body that a person might never have felt comfortable with (probably mostly with how others perceived it, since prepubescent human bodies are relatively similar between sexes except for the dangly bits) suddenly begins transforming into something dramatically foreign to their internal identity. Puberty blocking drugs do exist -- they're relatively new, medically speaking, so while long-term effects aren't yet established, they seem to be at least safe in the short-term, while easing the mental/emotional trauma.
Societies can change! (E.g., marriage equality, women voting.) We just need to figure it out as we go, with as much kindness and respect as possible.
2
One third of one percent: why has this particular topic become as important as global warming, wars in the Middle East, refugees fleeing North Africa and drowning, etc.? There are all kinds of minorities in this country, but the LGBT agenda has become THE issue of the day. I guess it sells newspapers and magazines.
94
Because it's interesting and historic, and though the percentage may be small, the numbers are significant and it affects us all.
5
It's June and June is usually celebrated for GLBT pride.
1
Cynics might say that it has a lot to do with white male heterosexual privilege.
Women's rights? Everyone can define their own gender. There are no women unless you ask the person what gender they are, so no need for women's rights. 6'3" hairy athletes? Get used to it. Male oppressors? They might be women too. Did you ask them what gender they consider themselves?
Non-European-descent rights? How can you bring up such a topic? How are transgender people treated in that community? No press coverage for them!
Basically, this 1/3% is the favorite persecuted minority of white males. No other group's hardships are as important as the hardships that these (often white) folks have, therefore there is no need to address other injustices.
Women's rights? Everyone can define their own gender. There are no women unless you ask the person what gender they are, so no need for women's rights. 6'3" hairy athletes? Get used to it. Male oppressors? They might be women too. Did you ask them what gender they consider themselves?
Non-European-descent rights? How can you bring up such a topic? How are transgender people treated in that community? No press coverage for them!
Basically, this 1/3% is the favorite persecuted minority of white males. No other group's hardships are as important as the hardships that these (often white) folks have, therefore there is no need to address other injustices.
3
Wonderful article. I agree wholeheartedly with your bringing the focus back to treating those who are transgender kindly and with inclusiveness to the extent possible. I think those who are transgender should be accommodated where and when it makes sense; I don't think, for instance, women's colleges should be required to accept someone who is biologically male and identifies as female. Some of the language the transgender movement is asking for is also absurd to me. Bathrooms should be unisex anyway; locker rooms can be constructed to create private dressing areas and showers. There are solutions to most basic accommodation issues, but sometimes there really aren't; as you say, this is a complicated issue. I worry when surgery and drugs for a lifetime are a solutions; I sense a bandwagon - around health, money & media - and that makes me suspicious.
23
I prefer not to use the nouns 'man' or 'woman'. I find the terms misleading, imprecise and value laden. Hence, I prefer the adjectives 'male' and 'female', also used as nouns, plus a person's age as needed.
At any given time and place, depending upon the context and the power in play, any given human, just like any other primate, will act in a more or a less male or female way depending on the opportunity cost of doing so.
As Kappeler and Schaik repeatedly point out, despite the underpinnings of biologically determined sex, it is a myth created by 'men' and 'women', of course, that primates have fixed male and female roles [1].
1) Kappeler, Peter M., and Carel P. Van Schaik, eds. 'Sexual selection in primates: new and comparative perspectives'. Cambridge University Press, 2004.
At any given time and place, depending upon the context and the power in play, any given human, just like any other primate, will act in a more or a less male or female way depending on the opportunity cost of doing so.
As Kappeler and Schaik repeatedly point out, despite the underpinnings of biologically determined sex, it is a myth created by 'men' and 'women', of course, that primates have fixed male and female roles [1].
1) Kappeler, Peter M., and Carel P. Van Schaik, eds. 'Sexual selection in primates: new and comparative perspectives'. Cambridge University Press, 2004.
6
Up until a few years ago, we had most politicians saying that gay marriage was wrong and a threat -THREAT TO TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE. Many have backed off of that since it quickly and rightly became political suicide. Now they don't use threat, they say simply they believe in traditional marriage.
My girl friend' marriage to her wife has never threatened my marriage and contrary to what has been put into the poison mix, not only do the majority of women not want to sleep with these old, cranky overweight guys neither do men. No threat there either.
But that sort of language leaves a very negative path. As a woman, I feel a real kinship with gay and transgender. I can't possibly help that I wasn't born a blonde, blue eyed strapping white boy. I have all the other stuff but was born a girl. And that difference makes me have to navigate my life very differently. Considered the weaker sex, I'd love to see a man give birth. And managerial skills, problem solving? We can do it all day with a baby on our hip. Please.
And it's equally dangerous for us. We really do know what it's like to constantly have the antenna up because we could be physically harmed at any time. And there's the inner antenna which I like to call the eye roll bull sh&@ factor. It's when you are listening to some idiot. It's also when you have a great idea but can't be given equal consideration. It's that weird balance where you want to tell a complete jerk to bug off but need to stay safe and not escalate a jerk.
My girl friend' marriage to her wife has never threatened my marriage and contrary to what has been put into the poison mix, not only do the majority of women not want to sleep with these old, cranky overweight guys neither do men. No threat there either.
But that sort of language leaves a very negative path. As a woman, I feel a real kinship with gay and transgender. I can't possibly help that I wasn't born a blonde, blue eyed strapping white boy. I have all the other stuff but was born a girl. And that difference makes me have to navigate my life very differently. Considered the weaker sex, I'd love to see a man give birth. And managerial skills, problem solving? We can do it all day with a baby on our hip. Please.
And it's equally dangerous for us. We really do know what it's like to constantly have the antenna up because we could be physically harmed at any time. And there's the inner antenna which I like to call the eye roll bull sh&@ factor. It's when you are listening to some idiot. It's also when you have a great idea but can't be given equal consideration. It's that weird balance where you want to tell a complete jerk to bug off but need to stay safe and not escalate a jerk.
5
The conversation must not be derailed by appeals to sympathy for bullied children or ridicule of supposed neurotic misgivings: the medical issues are too important.
A healthy body, whether its sex is the one you feel you should be or the opposite one, should never be endangered to alleviate purely psychological distress. The role that hormonal balance plays in physiological processes is immense and still quite poorly-understood. Synthetic hormones have an uninterrupted record of adverse health consequences, whether from factory-farmed animals, hormone-replacement therapy, first-generation birth control pills, athletic and body-building motives. Medically-indicated castration and hysterectomy have even more dire implications.
The testicles and ovaries are not only reproductive/sexual organs. They are known to play a role in immunity, muscular and skeletal integrity, psychological equilibrium and many other systems.
The media, including the NYT, should not irresponsibly suppress these concerns. Above all, children and teenagers should not be taught that the hormonal and surgical options are medically neutral or advisable. Physical health is too important and too easily damaged.
A healthy body, whether its sex is the one you feel you should be or the opposite one, should never be endangered to alleviate purely psychological distress. The role that hormonal balance plays in physiological processes is immense and still quite poorly-understood. Synthetic hormones have an uninterrupted record of adverse health consequences, whether from factory-farmed animals, hormone-replacement therapy, first-generation birth control pills, athletic and body-building motives. Medically-indicated castration and hysterectomy have even more dire implications.
The testicles and ovaries are not only reproductive/sexual organs. They are known to play a role in immunity, muscular and skeletal integrity, psychological equilibrium and many other systems.
The media, including the NYT, should not irresponsibly suppress these concerns. Above all, children and teenagers should not be taught that the hormonal and surgical options are medically neutral or advisable. Physical health is too important and too easily damaged.
45
Perhaps you would rather see these people kill themselves due to the psychological torture of gender dysphoria rather than implementing a hormone-based medical intervention that, so far, does not appear to adversely impact the long-term wellbeing of transgender individuals.
3
I can't believe your letter was singular when your comments are so sensible. These questions are the only reasonable 'objections' to transgendering -- and they do not demean transgender people. Objections full of fear or hate or judgment must be discounted altogether. Neither do views which deny the often fluid nature of gender identity count for much. Let's be caring and reasoned while we all try to figure life out.
3
Your error is in presuming that transgenders feel "purely psychological distress". And if that distress often leads to suicide and wasted lives, your solution is, what?
And golly, those poor folks who have lost testicles or ovaries to accidents or cancer must really miss their "immunity, muscular and skeletal integrity, psychological equilibrium and many other systems".
Yet another rationalization for prejudice.
And golly, those poor folks who have lost testicles or ovaries to accidents or cancer must really miss their "immunity, muscular and skeletal integrity, psychological equilibrium and many other systems".
Yet another rationalization for prejudice.
2
LIFE LIBERTY & HAPPINESS We're all entitled to the rights to pursue these there things. Even kids who identify themselves as the opposite of their birth gender. Most facilities have, in addition to women's and men's facilities, another one that is handicapped accessible. Not to imply that being transgender is a handicap. But in the interest of safety, it may be appropriate for some transgender youth to be offered the option of such facilities where available. We Americans are way behind the times regarding coed toilets. When I studied in Spain in 1968, the university bathroom was coed, but the doors to the toilets went from floor to ceiling, thereby providing privacy and safety. So there are other options. Sometimes schools ask children with special needs to tell their classmates what life is like for them, which most often results in an empathic response. It's important to accept the unease of the general population in understanding transgender persons, to increase safety and ultimately, acceptance.
5
By all means we should open our hearts to all of our fellow human beings who we see as at the fringes of our conceptions of "normal." However, let's acknowledge that the psychological thing of gender identification is still largely a mystery. Let's be prudent and not rush to institutionalize what we may later see as premature and naive views of a complex reality.
10
A great line by principal Courtney Wakefield: “It’s easy to make this a granular issue about bathrooms or sexuality. It’s really about preparing young people for the incredibly messy and complex world we live in.” It sounds as if she is a true educator: concerned with every individual in her school, and able to create a school environment in which every student feels safe and comfortable. Long after the lessons of calculus and sonnets fade, her students will be able to function in a "messy and complex" -- but wonderfully challenging and marvelous -- world.
12
"High school isn't just about getting students college-ready but also about getting them world-ready." Amen.
9
Is Bruce really courageous? If so he could have come out BEFORE he won the Olympics, before he fathered children. The brave person was from Denmark. I think her name is Christine Jorgansen. She transgendered long before Bruce was around. Bruce could have followed in her footprint at a much younger age. And many others have also transgendered before Bruce decided it was time. He chose to wait many years. One could wonder why.
Perhaps it is helpful for others to have a famous person transgender to get the conversation going.
Furthermore there were times as a child when I thought maybe I should be a boy. Fortunately it was before Christine even and no one would have toyed with the idea.
I am very thankful that the idea wasn't possible. As an elderly adult I am very happy being what I was meant to be. I am afraid decisions will be made for children that might not really be the correct decision.
We are all created with hormones for both sexes, so at times it is possible to feel like the other sex from what we are.
Perhaps it is helpful for others to have a famous person transgender to get the conversation going.
Furthermore there were times as a child when I thought maybe I should be a boy. Fortunately it was before Christine even and no one would have toyed with the idea.
I am very thankful that the idea wasn't possible. As an elderly adult I am very happy being what I was meant to be. I am afraid decisions will be made for children that might not really be the correct decision.
We are all created with hormones for both sexes, so at times it is possible to feel like the other sex from what we are.
11
Not the same thing. Ms Jorgensen was truly born with different hormonal levels, etc. He was transexual-not transgender.
1
When our patriarchal society quits putting specific gender roles and restrictions on each sex (male and female) these issues will go away. Patriarchy has been created and supported by religion, especially the Christian and Muslim ones which are pretty much the same.
7
We need a gender-neutral pronoun that refers to all people equally, unisex bathrooms that all can use, and much less importance attributed to sports.
33
There is a lot to be learned from trans kids. I hope we can open our hearts and minds to support them. No child should have to think in terms of suicide.
5
While I wish the transgendered well, they are small in number and --if female-- have made a choice to be so. All this attention to their "plight" is annoying to me in a world where millions of those born women are brutalized, raped, murdered and viciously attacked and threatened if they dare to speak their minds or protest injustice against females.
60
You are not alone in this sentiment. But why must we pit two disadvantaged groups against one another? Surely in those countries where the worst violence against women takes place (including ours), those who would dare to reveal their gender status are treated equally harshly. And there are still almost no legal protections for transgendered people in employment and housing -- this is even still true for gay and lesbians. Nevertheless, the animus comes from those who uphold a narrow norm for all -- and we should all be in this together!
8
"they are small in number and - if female - have made a choice to be so."
No, they have not made a choice. It's a function of brain and biological structures. It's not bisexuality, gender identity is much deeper, neurologically mediated. Not chosen. Born.
No, they have not made a choice. It's a function of brain and biological structures. It's not bisexuality, gender identity is much deeper, neurologically mediated. Not chosen. Born.
5
The fact that women who are female-identified at birth are victims of violence doesn't mean that transgender people are not also disproportionately victims of violence (which you seem to be implying that they have "chosen" to be). It's not a zero-sum game or the oppression olympics.
5
I applaud the goal of school to prepare students to be world ready.
9
Only in New York City can one find a publically financed high school called the "the Academy for Young Writers". Nowhere else does the pronounced liberal bent of the electorate clash so jarringly with a desire to distinguish through public investment, rather than impose an egalitarian framework on secondary education.
But Nick's piece today is about the challenges that face the transgender young, so I put aside my bemusement while pointing out that just about everywhere else in America, even in progressive communities, eyebrows likely arch at reading about this high school.
Principal Winkfield and her teachers obviously deserve high marks for sensitivity, and not just their transgender students are lucky to have them and an environment they've created that protects diversity. But I wonder at what practical lessons they offer for most of an America that prizes traditional conformity in its education. In almost all of our country, children facing exceptional issues of identity still will need strong individual mentors, because a general framework simply can't be manageably established and maintained.
But Nick's piece today is about the challenges that face the transgender young, so I put aside my bemusement while pointing out that just about everywhere else in America, even in progressive communities, eyebrows likely arch at reading about this high school.
Principal Winkfield and her teachers obviously deserve high marks for sensitivity, and not just their transgender students are lucky to have them and an environment they've created that protects diversity. But I wonder at what practical lessons they offer for most of an America that prizes traditional conformity in its education. In almost all of our country, children facing exceptional issues of identity still will need strong individual mentors, because a general framework simply can't be manageably established and maintained.
8
As I don't know the curriculum at the school, I wouldn't even venture a guess as to what the school is about. But as there are also public schools for various forms of the fine arts all across the country, I'm thinking it's probably just fine and maybe even excellent.
4
Doesn't New Jersey have publicly financed magnet schools or charter schools? Here in Charleston, S.C., we have a multitude of both to attract students with strong interests and talents in the arts and sciences, military and Montessori and more. Our latest is the "Allegro Charter School of Music" for grades 6 - 9. How I wish I were 11 years old again! On the other hand, having been employed much of my life as a writer, I know I would have thrived at "The Academy for Young Writers." Go ahead and arch your eyebrows, Mr. Luettgen. I'm sorry if New Jersey offers only cookie-cutter schools, but I suspect that is not the case.
4
what we will get form the jenner episode, we've already got...the message on the cover of vanity fair (and the reality tv deal) has nothing to do with the plight of kids who are bullied for any number of reasons, gender identity being the one in today's column, an odd conflation of crisis with commodity (certainly as distracting as "...questions of surgery or which restrooms a person is going to use...").
addressing the situation that distresses kids instead of addressing their problems will require the sort of heavy lifting undertaken by principal winkfield and the mentors she brings into the fray to "help students craft an anti-bullying policy" (note the wider scope of the effort).
what the times ought to consider now is a close look at the the policies and practices that emerge from the effort (one that, notably, includes students but not celebrities).
addressing the situation that distresses kids instead of addressing their problems will require the sort of heavy lifting undertaken by principal winkfield and the mentors she brings into the fray to "help students craft an anti-bullying policy" (note the wider scope of the effort).
what the times ought to consider now is a close look at the the policies and practices that emerge from the effort (one that, notably, includes students but not celebrities).
4
Even people born female and who identify that way and who are attracted to men and who have happy marriages with men can get flak from others for not doing "being a woman" correctly. I do think it's a fair question to ask what the impact would be on transgendered people if we as a society were in general less rigid and judgmental about how people present themselves.
When I read, in the context of abusive labor practices in nail salons, that women are now expected to have their nails done as a matter of basic grooming, I thought that this is a step backwards from where I thought feminism and the women's rights movement had gotten us. I think it's "rules" like this that contribute to the polarization of the sexes and hence to discomfort of people who do not subscribe to such polarization, for whatever reason. And when a transgendered person opts for the extreme version of their new gender, I think it points up how artificial a lot of our gender rules are.
When I read, in the context of abusive labor practices in nail salons, that women are now expected to have their nails done as a matter of basic grooming, I thought that this is a step backwards from where I thought feminism and the women's rights movement had gotten us. I think it's "rules" like this that contribute to the polarization of the sexes and hence to discomfort of people who do not subscribe to such polarization, for whatever reason. And when a transgendered person opts for the extreme version of their new gender, I think it points up how artificial a lot of our gender rules are.
116
Kudos to this principal and these teachers. It sounds like they are truly serving their students, in helping them deal with the life issues they face. Statistics in teen depression/anxiety/suicide/etc (and these life histories) show that the teen years are about so much more than test scores and grades. And a big step forward for the kids is having their reality, their issues recognized. When the adults around them recognize their truth and respect them for it, then the kids not only gain allies and support, but learn from the adults' example that they themselves can do the same.
Congratulations to this school--may others learn from its example.
Congratulations to this school--may others learn from its example.
65
Teen depression, anxiety, and suicide are prominent problems for most teens, not just transgender children.
7
I may have missed it, but where in this column did I see anything about psychological or psychiatric counseling?
If someone is born with XY chromosome pairs, and the normal male sex organs, then he is a boy, period. If someone is born with XX chromosome pairs, and the normal female sex organs, she is a girl, period.
If someone identifies outside of his biologically determined role, he needs psychological counseling. The last thing he needs is surgery and hormone replacement therapy.
There is a very good reason that Johns Hopkins, arguably the finest medical center in the United States, no longer does sex reassignment surgeries.
If someone is born with XY chromosome pairs, and the normal male sex organs, then he is a boy, period. If someone is born with XX chromosome pairs, and the normal female sex organs, she is a girl, period.
If someone identifies outside of his biologically determined role, he needs psychological counseling. The last thing he needs is surgery and hormone replacement therapy.
There is a very good reason that Johns Hopkins, arguably the finest medical center in the United States, no longer does sex reassignment surgeries.
98
"If someone is born with XY chromosome pairs, and the normal male sex organs, then he is a boy, period. If someone is born with XX chromosome pairs, and the normal female sex organs, she is a girl, period."
An interesting assertion, but obviously incorrect. Our identity isn't defined by our appearance, and certainly not by chromosomes. This is obvious when you look at Intersex people. So why should others be an exception?
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
-- The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions
Who we are is defined by our minds, not our dangly bits. It's defined by personality, thought patterns, emotional response, instincts.. not how many X chromosomes we have. It's defined by our brains - those who have no brain activity are legally dead, regardless if chromosomes and genitalia.
An interesting assertion, but obviously incorrect. Our identity isn't defined by our appearance, and certainly not by chromosomes. This is obvious when you look at Intersex people. So why should others be an exception?
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
-- The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions
Who we are is defined by our minds, not our dangly bits. It's defined by personality, thought patterns, emotional response, instincts.. not how many X chromosomes we have. It's defined by our brains - those who have no brain activity are legally dead, regardless if chromosomes and genitalia.
50
Wow, you haven't been listening at all, have you?
5
How true. The man I was talking about above, dressed like a woman and acted as a woman, except when he resorted to basic instincts and then it was very apparent he was a man. He fought like a man, etc.
3
Caitlyn Jenner is my "new" women of the decade.
The fluidity to seamlessly transform from Male to Female is indeed a awe inspiring wonder of our tremendous progression in Science,technology & Medicine,not to forget the sympathetic chord struck by progressive newspaper like the NYT & its reporters.
We accept Bruce & Caitlyn.
The question is do they accept this transmutation as easily as we do.I mean internally,within their psyche.
At this rate,In the future we will all be dual personalities,sometimes male,sometimes female or both.
It sounds futuristic,buts it's near,very near.
Thank you Bruce,er Caitlyn for showing us the way.
TIME,Female of the year-2015
The fluidity to seamlessly transform from Male to Female is indeed a awe inspiring wonder of our tremendous progression in Science,technology & Medicine,not to forget the sympathetic chord struck by progressive newspaper like the NYT & its reporters.
We accept Bruce & Caitlyn.
The question is do they accept this transmutation as easily as we do.I mean internally,within their psyche.
At this rate,In the future we will all be dual personalities,sometimes male,sometimes female or both.
It sounds futuristic,buts it's near,very near.
Thank you Bruce,er Caitlyn for showing us the way.
TIME,Female of the year-2015
3
They don't really transgender from male to female or female to male. They will NEVER be able to have children naturally. And I think that is a real loss.
"Caitlyn Jenner is my "new" women of the decade."
You seriously need better role models.
You seriously need better role models.
6
I dated a genderqueer "girl" in high school for two years. For the most part, she dressed and acted like a girl, but occasionally she would shelve the lipstick for fake stubble and emerge looking undeniably masculine. At first it was difficult to mentally process for me, so sure in my sex and gender, but that experience taught me to understand identity as a fluid spectrum. Rigid classifications like gender, race - they're all made up. We can unmake them, too.
84
Gender is not made up. It's as real as can be -- it's coded in your DNA. It's part of your health.
If you think "gender is made up", you will be very surprised (I guess) when you get pregnant -- or make someone else pregnant -- since you think everything is a make-believe fantasy land ... or a role-playing video game.
If you think "gender is made up", you will be very surprised (I guess) when you get pregnant -- or make someone else pregnant -- since you think everything is a make-believe fantasy land ... or a role-playing video game.
7
Civilized people basically don't harass other people because they choose a particular life style or have non-standard ("normal" is too freighted a word) appearance/anatomy that is harmless to society at large. And no schools should permit such harassment.
However, those other people in today's "rights" culture often are intent on obtaining special privileges or exercising privileges that belong to others -- such as using the boys' bathroom at school when you don't have boy parts or the girls' bathroom when you don't have girl parts. When it is not financially prohibitive, accommodations can be made -- such as an "others" bathroom, for instance -- but the problem for society is that for the usual radical activist, accommodation is not enough; they want to take their boy parts to the girls' bathroom.
However, those other people in today's "rights" culture often are intent on obtaining special privileges or exercising privileges that belong to others -- such as using the boys' bathroom at school when you don't have boy parts or the girls' bathroom when you don't have girl parts. When it is not financially prohibitive, accommodations can be made -- such as an "others" bathroom, for instance -- but the problem for society is that for the usual radical activist, accommodation is not enough; they want to take their boy parts to the girls' bathroom.
40
Yes, and even IF they had a bathroom for transgenders the boy transgenders would probably not want to use the same bathroom that the girl transgenders use. So you would need 4 separate bathrooms.
I once was in a situation where there was a transgender who wanted to be allowed to use the female bathroom. The females were rightly very uncomfortable, so it was suggested he (he was a he who wanted to be a she) use the men's bathroom. He was not happy with that suggestion and neither were the men. It was a situation where it involved locker rooms and showers as well. Where would you have put this man?
I once was in a situation where there was a transgender who wanted to be allowed to use the female bathroom. The females were rightly very uncomfortable, so it was suggested he (he was a he who wanted to be a she) use the men's bathroom. He was not happy with that suggestion and neither were the men. It was a situation where it involved locker rooms and showers as well. Where would you have put this man?
3
I agree. As a female and as a mother, I would be horrified at the acceptance of allowing individuals to "decide" their genders despite their anatomy. This is not okay.
7
Within the past year, the Times had a feature about of a five-year-old boy who presented behaviors which his parents and other adults interpreted as transgender, rather than merely "gay", which meant that the child's desire to dress as a girl and use the girls' bathroom at his school had to be accommodated. The Times championed this accommodation. The feature made no mention whatsoever of the issue of five-year-old girls possibly being discomfited by a little boy in their restroom.
5
Not wanting to wear dresses does not mean a girl is a boy. Wanting to wear dresses does not make a boy a girl. Why is every preference and thought one has being 'gendered?' These things used to be called 'personality.'
137
I find that weird too -- especially TODAY, when the overwhelming majority of women wear slacks or jeans. Clothing in modern society is less gendered than probably at any time in history! Even conservative, elderly women wear pants.
These children appear to have serious mental problems that transcend any type of clothing. A kid who doesn't want to wear a skirt to school? that doesn't mean she's a BOY -- it means she is a girl who does not like wearing skirts (for many good reasons -- they are harder to walk or play in! and colder in winter).
These children appear to have serious mental problems that transcend any type of clothing. A kid who doesn't want to wear a skirt to school? that doesn't mean she's a BOY -- it means she is a girl who does not like wearing skirts (for many good reasons -- they are harder to walk or play in! and colder in winter).
14
Maybe the wearing or not wearing of a dress is the only way children know of to stress their point about how they feel when they are forced to be in the wrong socially accepted garb. Society has created these indicators. Blue is for boys and pink is for girls. Children are working with the references society has created.
Boys don't wear skirts or dresses, and girls can.
Unless they are Scottish and are wearing a kilt with knee socks.
Boys don't wear skirts or dresses, and girls can.
Unless they are Scottish and are wearing a kilt with knee socks.
4
No, not wanting to wear a dress does not mean a girl is a boy. Neither does a girl who feels deeply that she would be more comfortable as a boy "make her" or "mean that" she "is" a boy. Rather, he is transgendered. At some point, you have to believe what people say about themselves.
1
There are a lot of troubling observations here. Despite decades of talking about bullies we seem powerless to stop them. And despite the fact that many women don't ever wear skirts these days some schools have decided on outdated uniforms. And because a girl didn't want to wear a skirt she wondered if she was a lesbian or "transgender," meaningless terms to a child who hasn't reached puberty. And now she refers to herself as "he" but is vacillating as to gender, most of which seems to expressed in clothing and grooming.
It seems very clear that if it wasn't for bullies and a culture that insists on labelling people Spencer could be very happy, vacillating or not on clothes, interests and sexuality. I'm afraid that Mr. Kristof is ignoring the fundamental human rights here - to not be labelled and to self expression. Being forced to identify as gay, straight, bisexual, transexual, etc. is something that is cultural, not biological. And that kind of stereotyping is what bullies love.
It seems very clear that if it wasn't for bullies and a culture that insists on labelling people Spencer could be very happy, vacillating or not on clothes, interests and sexuality. I'm afraid that Mr. Kristof is ignoring the fundamental human rights here - to not be labelled and to self expression. Being forced to identify as gay, straight, bisexual, transexual, etc. is something that is cultural, not biological. And that kind of stereotyping is what bullies love.
115
Labelling is about power. Label something one way, it's dismissed, label it differently and it becomes a political force. Someone is going to label a person who has "gender issues". If that label is "freak", "weirdo", etc. it's going to be a problem. The tremendous progress that's been made in the U.S. with regards to gay rights is all about labelling, beginning with the re-labeling of "queer". Yes, there's a negative side, but the idea that we, as humans, can calmly go about our lives without, at least internally, labelling (i.e. categorizing) others is unrealistic. We notice difference, and that leads to qualitative judgements, we can't help it.
1
I don't think it's clear. I don't think we have enough information to tell.
1
You're on to something important here. But the crux of the issue is labeling--and it's been done for eons by people thinking that because we have a different color skin, come from over a hill, or don't behave according to some religious laws, we have a right to label the non-conformists as "others." This air of supremacy is what perpetuates bullying and discrimination. We see it every day in our lives; divisiveness. And until we address those areas that try to separate us into "us" and the "others," we will continue to dodge the issue, and hence, the solution. Our tendency to put things into neat little boxes is not how nature works.
2
Nicholas,
I think you get it exactly right when you say that fundamentally it is about our ability to accept the transgender people as our equals. Their accommodation and assimilation in society are the challenges we should be working on. The C. Jenner transformation has shined a light on the challenges facing transgender people; I have been a bit dismayed by the commercial attention and over the top social media coverage (not as much dialogue where we can confront our biases and hang ups and commit to overcoming them). We need to talk more about their being ostracized and discriminated.
I think you get it exactly right when you say that fundamentally it is about our ability to accept the transgender people as our equals. Their accommodation and assimilation in society are the challenges we should be working on. The C. Jenner transformation has shined a light on the challenges facing transgender people; I have been a bit dismayed by the commercial attention and over the top social media coverage (not as much dialogue where we can confront our biases and hang ups and commit to overcoming them). We need to talk more about their being ostracized and discriminated.
28