You know, there are a lot of single parents who are white, and they, also, often receive aid. However, they are portrayed as heroic in the media. Nothing is ever said of the white men who are not living with their children's mother whether they have been married or not. It's a fact that only half of all marriages last, period! That's a lot of single parents raising kids on one income. There are a lot of white men who don't give financial support to their kids, or who give only the bare minimum. I had two children by two different white men. I never got any significant financial support from either one of them. I depended upon Aid to Families with Dependent Children which allowed me to go to school AND get aid and childcare for my kids as long as I got good grades. Bill Clinton, was the one who dubbed single women with kids as "welfare queens," and ended that "welfare as we knew it." Now single parents can only get GEDs or "training" in low-paying jobs that don't pay enough to support themselves and their children while receiving a very meager food allowance and most often, no public housing. There are ridiculously long waiting lists for housing. In San Francisco, it's a lottery that takes as long as ten years to win public housing. And if you're Black, your paycheck is much smaller and jobs much harder to find—for both parents—living together or not. That's the reality today. If you haven't been there, don't judge it! Single parenting is tough no matter what!
101
My solution to any of this, and what I think is the real question is, why have children at all? Do people believe that it's their god given right? I suppose that they do and in some sense, they are right. I consider myself to be middle-class (I suppose) and recently married. but we have no intention of of having children. Why? because we believe that despite making a combined 6 digits a year, we cannot afford a child. there are people who make significantly less than we that talk about having a family...How? It's not just, shotgun weddings and living situations that should be analyzed, but also as to the reason of why do we need to have children in the first place?
57
The idea of pathology is absurd. Many Black fathers do indeed stay with their children. When Black men don't stay with their children it is either because they are incarcerated, dead, or lacked involved fathers of their own.
On the other hand, playing sleight of hand with numbers, as Mr. Blow does here, does little to see the problem in the true light. The fact is that being Black makes everything worse. Blacks living in poverty have more problems than Whites living in poverty. Blacks with diabetes have more complications than Asians with diabetes. And Black children growing up in single parent homes have more difficulties than White children growing up in single parent homes.
This truism invalidates Mr. Blow's article. In other words Black children will suffer more than White children in single parent homes, even if there are less of them.
On the other hand, playing sleight of hand with numbers, as Mr. Blow does here, does little to see the problem in the true light. The fact is that being Black makes everything worse. Blacks living in poverty have more problems than Whites living in poverty. Blacks with diabetes have more complications than Asians with diabetes. And Black children growing up in single parent homes have more difficulties than White children growing up in single parent homes.
This truism invalidates Mr. Blow's article. In other words Black children will suffer more than White children in single parent homes, even if there are less of them.
19
It would be interesting to hear Mr Blow's take on the recent racist NYT editorial, which echoed the Progressive Mayor DiBlasio's racist spin (because that is what the NYT editorial board exists to do), which quite plainly downplayed the crime spike in NYC because, after all, it was only blacks killing blacks in black neighborhoods.
45
This column belittles the intelligence of most of your readers. Being involved as a father is a lot more than just changing the diaper when you happen to be visiting your child who you're not living with. It's the daily presence that counts and how one juggles the challenges of daily life as a two-parent unit. In the very CDC data that Blow cites, it reveals that 50% of black fathers do not live with the non-adult children they sire, compared to 20% for white fathers.
149
Mr. Blow exhibits a "sleight of hand " in his selective use of misleading statistics.
2.5 million live with one of their children and 1.7 million do not.
Of the 2.5 million who live with one of their children,how many million children do they have who live in other households without the father ?
If someone has 5 children who live in different households,and lives with one of them, is the family situation for the rest of the children good?
2.5 million live with one of their children and 1.7 million do not.
Of the 2.5 million who live with one of their children,how many million children do they have who live in other households without the father ?
If someone has 5 children who live in different households,and lives with one of them, is the family situation for the rest of the children good?
131
It's really hard to understand Mr Blow's column, none of it makes any sense from an analytical contexts. "births to unmarried black women are disproportionately represented in the statistics??"
Let's agree that the black dads who live with the mothers of their children and actively provide for their children, emotionally, morally and financially, are people to be admired and respected.
Other than that, it's not at all clear what point Mr Blow is trying to make other than 72% of out of wedlock births "may even be worrisome," but is "at odds with the corrosive mythology about black fathers."
Who edits this stuff?
Let's agree that the black dads who live with the mothers of their children and actively provide for their children, emotionally, morally and financially, are people to be admired and respected.
Other than that, it's not at all clear what point Mr Blow is trying to make other than 72% of out of wedlock births "may even be worrisome," but is "at odds with the corrosive mythology about black fathers."
Who edits this stuff?
187
Black fathers, like so many fathers, are destroyed by today's family court system. What would be the statistics for first time offenders being guilty of falling behind on child support--a debtor's prison. The Brady bill leaves these fathers unable to reduce what they pay, regardless of whether they had lost a job, been in an accident and unable to work for a while, not until they get it through the courts, by which time they are so far behind it makes no sense. The real abusers of parental responsibility here? The moocher moms who keep the cash for kids system in play.
15
Blow cites a NYT report that there are 1.5 million black men who are "missing". The explanation provided is that this is due primarily to the high rate of mass incarceration of black men and premature death.
The NYT should know better. Because all prisoners are counted in the census. As to death 1. they are not missing, they are dead, and 2 black men are not the only people that die and there are records of those who die.
The plain and obvious explanation for the "missing" black men is that the census counts people by the number of residents living in a household. And as Blow writes black men do not live in any single particular household because of the fact that they have multiple children from different women. "Some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time".
To boot Blow wants us to believe that they roam from women to women and apartment to apartment for the sake of being loving fathers. They are an inspiration to us all as to what loving fathers are capable of
Its amazing how Blow can take the lowest type of lifestyle. A setup in which they can drop in on any of the many women in their roster and say "honey I decided to stay here for the night, cook me dinner, then we'll go to bed", when they are broke. These men do not "have children" they have unprotected sex since there is no consequence to having children.
Mr. Blow keep you delusions to yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.
Blow
The NYT should know better. Because all prisoners are counted in the census. As to death 1. they are not missing, they are dead, and 2 black men are not the only people that die and there are records of those who die.
The plain and obvious explanation for the "missing" black men is that the census counts people by the number of residents living in a household. And as Blow writes black men do not live in any single particular household because of the fact that they have multiple children from different women. "Some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time".
To boot Blow wants us to believe that they roam from women to women and apartment to apartment for the sake of being loving fathers. They are an inspiration to us all as to what loving fathers are capable of
Its amazing how Blow can take the lowest type of lifestyle. A setup in which they can drop in on any of the many women in their roster and say "honey I decided to stay here for the night, cook me dinner, then we'll go to bed", when they are broke. These men do not "have children" they have unprotected sex since there is no consequence to having children.
Mr. Blow keep you delusions to yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.
Blow
172
No way that 72% is not a scary number. That is crazy high.
88
I always find the assumption that the races never mix curious. The demographic "unmarried single white women" assumes the child's father was white, as these statistics obviously makes the assumption about black women & black men.
The "missing" men are certainly a human issue, but that there are only 577 black men to 1,182 black women in Ferguson automatically says to us that those women have no other choice but to be paired with a black man. How foolish and narrow minded is that?
It's the casual assumption that the races stay together and only together in itself reflects a certain racism, doesn't it?
The "missing" men are certainly a human issue, but that there are only 577 black men to 1,182 black women in Ferguson automatically says to us that those women have no other choice but to be paired with a black man. How foolish and narrow minded is that?
It's the casual assumption that the races stay together and only together in itself reflects a certain racism, doesn't it?
31
Commentary as cultural alchemy! Your convoluted attempt to turn dross into gold would make a great stand up routine for Louis C.K about the state of black culture.
Black men and women get incarcerated at high rates -then the women get pregnant without fathers at a high rates -then the fathers cohabitate with one or multiple women at a high rate - teenage pregnancies at record levels -and then some anecdotal references to how great the black men are as fathers???
Your are kidding? Right? -This was intended to be satire? Riht!~
Black men and women get incarcerated at high rates -then the women get pregnant without fathers at a high rates -then the fathers cohabitate with one or multiple women at a high rate - teenage pregnancies at record levels -and then some anecdotal references to how great the black men are as fathers???
Your are kidding? Right? -This was intended to be satire? Riht!~
169
Mr. Blow brings up a number of good points, but I hope he is not using these issues to minimize what is indeed a crisis on a number of levels including:
Mr. Blow somehow thinks that whites are somehow not worried about the same issues of unwed parents in their own community. This is a problem becoming easily visible in nearly all communities.
In Asian communities where families are most intact these groups are lapping every other community in health, test scores and incomes.
A father having multiple families is not the same even if he tries to be part of their lives.
Even with the number of black men behind bars even Blow agrees this is only a tiny part of the story.
The reality is that the only people hurt by these articles is the community Blow is aiming at. Blow seems to think there is a massive group out there that thinks Blacks somehow have some cultural affinity to family destruction. This is of course more an issue of modern society and should ne fought that way. Intact families lead to better outcomes. Now how do we get to that end for as many people as possible?
Mr. Blow somehow thinks that whites are somehow not worried about the same issues of unwed parents in their own community. This is a problem becoming easily visible in nearly all communities.
In Asian communities where families are most intact these groups are lapping every other community in health, test scores and incomes.
A father having multiple families is not the same even if he tries to be part of their lives.
Even with the number of black men behind bars even Blow agrees this is only a tiny part of the story.
The reality is that the only people hurt by these articles is the community Blow is aiming at. Blow seems to think there is a massive group out there that thinks Blacks somehow have some cultural affinity to family destruction. This is of course more an issue of modern society and should ne fought that way. Intact families lead to better outcomes. Now how do we get to that end for as many people as possible?
20
Firstly, responsibility is an individual thing and not a racial thing. I am not responsible for all white kids, I am responsible for my own. Mr. Blow is not responsible for all black kids he is responsible for his own.
The real problem is when folks like Blow come up with distorted logic to excuse the actions of entire classes of people. We constantly hear from Blow, "it's not their (our) fault because..." If folks have a ready made excuse, then they don't have to act responsibly.
I don't need to follow police directives, I can just say I was arrested because I am black.
I don't need to compete fairly. I can rely on affirmative action.
I don't need to earn an honest living. I can rely on public assistance or criminal activities.
But no group has more ready excuses than blacks. However, blacks have no monopoly on oppression. Jews could use the Holocaust, Irish were endured slaves in the New World and were faced with "Irish need not apply", Asians are still fair game for mockery and are actively excluded from positions because they are "over represented".
The real problem is when folks like Blow come up with distorted logic to excuse the actions of entire classes of people. We constantly hear from Blow, "it's not their (our) fault because..." If folks have a ready made excuse, then they don't have to act responsibly.
I don't need to follow police directives, I can just say I was arrested because I am black.
I don't need to compete fairly. I can rely on affirmative action.
I don't need to earn an honest living. I can rely on public assistance or criminal activities.
But no group has more ready excuses than blacks. However, blacks have no monopoly on oppression. Jews could use the Holocaust, Irish were endured slaves in the New World and were faced with "Irish need not apply", Asians are still fair game for mockery and are actively excluded from positions because they are "over represented".
82
If black families are "just fine', why are there so many expensive programs trying to improve the lives of black children.
It seems to me that Mr. Blow is using biased and misleading arguments to promote, publicize, and justify his particular point of view. This is often referred to as propaganda.
It seems to me that Mr. Blow is using biased and misleading arguments to promote, publicize, and justify his particular point of view. This is often referred to as propaganda.
112
There's no denying that our prison system is designed for profit, which means finding bodies with which to fill our prisons. And no one should be going to prison simply for having drugs for their own personal use. Far too many black and latino men are simply targeted by the police, whereas whites and Asians aren't scrutinized to the same degree when they may be committing the exact same crimes.
However, that does not discount the fact that far too many girls/women are essentially allowing themselves to get pregnant. I get the 'why' (no good role models in their own lives, poor education, low self-esteem, depression, lives full of 'drama', etc.) but that doesn't make it right. We need to stop putting black men in prison for petty crime but we also need to improve education all around, job prospect, and help girls/women with their self-esteem. I am so tired of seeing girl/woman after girl/woman popping-out babies with zero consideration, zero planning, their own lives already a mess, and somehow thinking everything will turn out ok? We've seen what happens, and our entire society suffers as a result. Sure, black men as a whole have it harder. That doesn't change the fact that unless a woman and a man have a good stable relationship, a financial PLAN, savings, etc., then that girl/woman should not be so careless (and yes, it is carelessness when it happens with such frequency!)...they should not be so careless about allowing themselves to get pregnant.
However, that does not discount the fact that far too many girls/women are essentially allowing themselves to get pregnant. I get the 'why' (no good role models in their own lives, poor education, low self-esteem, depression, lives full of 'drama', etc.) but that doesn't make it right. We need to stop putting black men in prison for petty crime but we also need to improve education all around, job prospect, and help girls/women with their self-esteem. I am so tired of seeing girl/woman after girl/woman popping-out babies with zero consideration, zero planning, their own lives already a mess, and somehow thinking everything will turn out ok? We've seen what happens, and our entire society suffers as a result. Sure, black men as a whole have it harder. That doesn't change the fact that unless a woman and a man have a good stable relationship, a financial PLAN, savings, etc., then that girl/woman should not be so careless (and yes, it is carelessness when it happens with such frequency!)...they should not be so careless about allowing themselves to get pregnant.
19
The headline for the article would seem to be right out of the National Enquirer! Let's grab some eyeballs for a tortured piece of statistical gymnastics. Credibility be damned!
79
Sorry, but Charles Blow misread the CDC report, as many people did. The report said that black fathers who lived with their kids spent more time with their children than white fathers who lived with their kids. It also said that black fathers who didn't live with their kids spent more time with their kids than white fathers who didn't live with their kids. So it would be easy to conclude that black men are better fathers, then, right?
Except that black fathers also spent about 40% less time with their kids than white fathers on average. How could that be possible if they did better in both categories? It's because so many more black fathers don't live in the home -- and the deficit in time spent with your children is so great when you don't -- that it doesn't really matter how "involved" you are trying to be -- you won't be able to keep up with fathers who live with their kids.
Put another way, the "really involved" fathers tend to live with their kids in families of all races. But the average dad (who is neither a saint nor a total absentee) lives with his kids in white households but tends not to in black households. And living with your kid makes such a big difference in their outcome that white families still end up far ahead. So you are comparing apples-to-oranges in saying that white fathers are less involved, since you are comparing the "very best" black dads to the "very best and just average" white dads when you compare groups of dads who live with their families.
Except that black fathers also spent about 40% less time with their kids than white fathers on average. How could that be possible if they did better in both categories? It's because so many more black fathers don't live in the home -- and the deficit in time spent with your children is so great when you don't -- that it doesn't really matter how "involved" you are trying to be -- you won't be able to keep up with fathers who live with their kids.
Put another way, the "really involved" fathers tend to live with their kids in families of all races. But the average dad (who is neither a saint nor a total absentee) lives with his kids in white households but tends not to in black households. And living with your kid makes such a big difference in their outcome that white families still end up far ahead. So you are comparing apples-to-oranges in saying that white fathers are less involved, since you are comparing the "very best" black dads to the "very best and just average" white dads when you compare groups of dads who live with their families.
99
With a nod to John Lennon, imagine a world where people limited their childbirths to those who they could nurture and afford. In developed economies, birth control is cheap and available. In America, pregnancy is a matter of personal choice. It is mystifying why many poor urban moms have multiple children from multiple deadbeat dads.
Similarly, crime is a personal choice. It is a myth that folks are thrown into jail for minor infractions. The statistics for the jailed population show a history of crimes, most with prior convictions.
Like it or not, in urban centers, too many dads are continually making bad choices and thereby shatter their communities and families, e.g. reject education, resent authority, use drugs, sell drugs, etc.
Denial of these central issues does nothing to correct them, nor does a culture of victimhood.
Similarly, crime is a personal choice. It is a myth that folks are thrown into jail for minor infractions. The statistics for the jailed population show a history of crimes, most with prior convictions.
Like it or not, in urban centers, too many dads are continually making bad choices and thereby shatter their communities and families, e.g. reject education, resent authority, use drugs, sell drugs, etc.
Denial of these central issues does nothing to correct them, nor does a culture of victimhood.
82
Let's play a game of imagine. Especially those commenters who would like Charles to stop his "race war".
Imagine that for several hundred years you are denied the comfort and love of a family. Your wife, children, parents could be sold and moved to another part of the country and you could only accept it.
Imagine that after the war that led to your freedom you were still denied the trappings of a first class citizen in many parts of the country. Indeed, in many parts of the Nation you or your children could be lynched by a mob of your fellow citizens for any number of trivial offenses.
Imagine that after years of marching and protest a law is finally signed that grants your people full "civil rights" according to the Constitution of the land.
All the while your fellow Americans are screaming and damning you.
And when the president tries to get a law passed to help in aiding families with dependent children politicians from the South manage to insert a clause that denies this aid to families with an able bodied man in residence. This in an attempt to deny this help to black families.
Imagine all of this happening while white people are asking why "you don't pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
The dysfunction we see in our communities, whether white or black, does not exist in a vacuum of no cause.
Let us try to walk a mile in a man's shoes before we expect him to model our behavior.
Imagine that for several hundred years you are denied the comfort and love of a family. Your wife, children, parents could be sold and moved to another part of the country and you could only accept it.
Imagine that after the war that led to your freedom you were still denied the trappings of a first class citizen in many parts of the country. Indeed, in many parts of the Nation you or your children could be lynched by a mob of your fellow citizens for any number of trivial offenses.
Imagine that after years of marching and protest a law is finally signed that grants your people full "civil rights" according to the Constitution of the land.
All the while your fellow Americans are screaming and damning you.
And when the president tries to get a law passed to help in aiding families with dependent children politicians from the South manage to insert a clause that denies this aid to families with an able bodied man in residence. This in an attempt to deny this help to black families.
Imagine all of this happening while white people are asking why "you don't pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
The dysfunction we see in our communities, whether white or black, does not exist in a vacuum of no cause.
Let us try to walk a mile in a man's shoes before we expect him to model our behavior.
157
Mr. Blow, your abilities continue to amaze. Manipulating statistics, elevating social irresponsibility and using smears how 2008 and 2012!
" some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time"
I don't care if they marry. I just want them to support their children.
DNA testing and father responsibility to obtain welfare and food stamps for all unwed mothers. No father pay no money. But that would be... Equality... Something you, Obama and Congress can't stomach.
I can't wait for your treatise on "Black Men are not being murdered by Black Men in Major US Cities" and "The Disregard for rules of Conduct in Public Education by Minority Students is a Positive Force in Education".
The only thing that is in question is... Why are our laws suspended for
" some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time"
I don't care if they marry. I just want them to support their children.
DNA testing and father responsibility to obtain welfare and food stamps for all unwed mothers. No father pay no money. But that would be... Equality... Something you, Obama and Congress can't stomach.
I can't wait for your treatise on "Black Men are not being murdered by Black Men in Major US Cities" and "The Disregard for rules of Conduct in Public Education by Minority Students is a Positive Force in Education".
The only thing that is in question is... Why are our laws suspended for
48
Did Mr. Blow seriously just used a *self-reported* "good-dad" survey results as his "proof" that "Black Dads Are Doing Best of All"?
Wow.
I guess even in the NYT, journalistic standards can be easily brushed off, in the interest the politically correct narrative.
Even if true, that black dads are changing more diapers (doubtful), has it occurred to Mr. Blow that this may be, say, because they are un-employed vs working to provide for their children, and therefore have more time to do it?
Good fatherhood in modern America is all about walking that tough line of quality time with the kids, and necessary time away from home to provide financial security to the family. It is tough. For blacks, for whites, for everyone.
It is insulting to all dads and families, that Mr. Blow wants to jump at a self reported survey as a way to "rank" dads by race.
Wow.
Wow.
I guess even in the NYT, journalistic standards can be easily brushed off, in the interest the politically correct narrative.
Even if true, that black dads are changing more diapers (doubtful), has it occurred to Mr. Blow that this may be, say, because they are un-employed vs working to provide for their children, and therefore have more time to do it?
Good fatherhood in modern America is all about walking that tough line of quality time with the kids, and necessary time away from home to provide financial security to the family. It is tough. For blacks, for whites, for everyone.
It is insulting to all dads and families, that Mr. Blow wants to jump at a self reported survey as a way to "rank" dads by race.
Wow.
46
It may be as the statistics suggest in Mr. Blow's article...however, in my experience as an elementary school counselor, too often the men residing in the homes of my AA students were not THEIR fathers. Rather, they were either the mother's boyfriend or the parent of a younger half-sibling. Their heart-rending, sad-eyed expressions spoke louder than a list of numbers, Mr. Blow.
75
Still if you look at the numbers as Mr. Blow presents them, it means 40% of black children grow up in single parent homes. That seems about right in the sense that the large majority of black people are decent, hard working Americans. But if 40% of your population is living in abject social dysfunction, it is a recipe for cultural failure (not to mention easy to generalize and stereotype). A quick Google search shows that 33% of black males will at one point in their life become incarcerated, which comports with the 40% number. So really, I don't think Mr. Blow is saying much at all. Bottom line: the destruction that liberals have foisted on black nuclear family unit by subsidizing fatherlessness is a tragic crime and in many ways could be viewed as a type of genocide.
27
Grasping at whatever he can find, Mr. Blow cites one chapter of a book from author Josh Levs (ranked 18,640 on Amazon Books with 3 reviews). Realizing, however, that even this rather obscure reference to Mr. Levs doesn't completely support with fact the preformed narrative Mr. Blow favors, Mr. Blow proceeds to impeach Mr. Levs' viewpoint. Brilliant.
It's a dangerous business when you go to snipping at the only thin thread available to hold up your beliefs as you dangle over the encompassing abyss of reality.
It's a dangerous business when you go to snipping at the only thin thread available to hold up your beliefs as you dangle over the encompassing abyss of reality.
39
One of the reasons that many Blacks in this country are in an endless cycle of poverty is because the welfare system supports aid to homeless pregnant women in the form of private apartments and other financial aids - a situation that can never be reversed until more attention is given to better education and greater availability of jobs for the poor.
26
Forgive me, but my very first thought was 'is there a societal factor that drives this dearth of marriage among young urban blacks?' As we glance down the income ladder is there a marriage penalty that becomes overwhelming for the people near or below the poverty line?
4
Oh my goodness, Charles Blow writes one article in vague support of the efforts of black fathers and haranguing him for it tops the Reader Recommendation list! Tell me, when was the Golden Era of black families in the US that gave way to this "destructive pathology"? I read a lot of history and, as I far as I can tell, that era almost never existed.
Consider it's white-male pathology at play here. Whose greed caused the mortgage crisis setting back striving blacks? Do they acknowledge what losing a home means to ANY family, especially its next generation? Who decided that the best way to resuscitate "creatively destroyed" cities is to lavish government subsidies and tax credits on the rich? I see others. I see rent-seeking payday loans and a criminal injustice system. I see stolen proceeds spent sustaining billion-dollar industries whose benefit to blacks is a few minimum-wage, dead-end jobs and a handful of professional careers for African Americans meant to justify accusations of pathology. That's what I see undermining the black family.
This phenomenon has been going on for generations and created success for others. Indeed, if every black person became super-negro today, their efforts STILL would be dismissed as not enough. The wellspring for pathology taunts is cheap as it is deep.
They continue to find more and more innovative ways to extract what little we have while never acknowledging what we're DUE while blaming us. Darn pathological, I'd say.
Consider it's white-male pathology at play here. Whose greed caused the mortgage crisis setting back striving blacks? Do they acknowledge what losing a home means to ANY family, especially its next generation? Who decided that the best way to resuscitate "creatively destroyed" cities is to lavish government subsidies and tax credits on the rich? I see others. I see rent-seeking payday loans and a criminal injustice system. I see stolen proceeds spent sustaining billion-dollar industries whose benefit to blacks is a few minimum-wage, dead-end jobs and a handful of professional careers for African Americans meant to justify accusations of pathology. That's what I see undermining the black family.
This phenomenon has been going on for generations and created success for others. Indeed, if every black person became super-negro today, their efforts STILL would be dismissed as not enough. The wellspring for pathology taunts is cheap as it is deep.
They continue to find more and more innovative ways to extract what little we have while never acknowledging what we're DUE while blaming us. Darn pathological, I'd say.
23
There's no polite way to say this so I'll just say it. You're wrong. Go back and look at marriage/illegitimacy rates/poverty/crime levels of blacks prior to the the disastrous Great Society programs of LBJ.
36
Didn't realize it was only blacks who lost houses in the mortgage crisis...
27
It seems like the vast majority of Blow's sympathetic liberal readership find this column incredible.
This may be part of the reason liberalism is collapsing before our eyes, as the more wide-awake liberals gradually jump ship.
As a conservative, I would like to have a rational opposition that engages my arguments and presents the contrary point of view. That is happening less and less, as liberals become further detached from reality.
This may be part of the reason liberalism is collapsing before our eyes, as the more wide-awake liberals gradually jump ship.
As a conservative, I would like to have a rational opposition that engages my arguments and presents the contrary point of view. That is happening less and less, as liberals become further detached from reality.
28
Lots of denial in these comments.
Let's see, first we enslaved an entire race of people in our country. When that became untenable we came up with Jim Crow laws and various "civil" forms of discrimination to make sure that members of that same race stayed second class citizens, or worse.
When that became untenable we came up with a "southern" strategy for one of our two major political parties, which really wasn't southern at all but had broad appeal among whites everywhere, to vilify blacks as shiftless law breakers best dealt with by wars on crime, drugs and poverty that undermined whatever was left of black culture.
And now we've shifted to a blame-the-victim strategy that says that, on the one hand things are so much better (no slavery, they can vote if they try, etc. etc.), so on the other hand any remaining problems in the black community are its own fault, so let's just more or less forget about them and focus (as always) on what's best for the rest of us.
And of course we can see direct parallels to all this in the history of our treatment of native Americans and, now, recent immigrants who do our dirty work for poverty level wages. And yes, we can cite examples of various past immigrant communities that overcame discrimination to assimilate and succeed, conveniently ignoring the fact that those groups weren't BLACK.
But God help a black man who dares to show that, despite all this, black fathers may not be doing such a bad job after all.
Let's see, first we enslaved an entire race of people in our country. When that became untenable we came up with Jim Crow laws and various "civil" forms of discrimination to make sure that members of that same race stayed second class citizens, or worse.
When that became untenable we came up with a "southern" strategy for one of our two major political parties, which really wasn't southern at all but had broad appeal among whites everywhere, to vilify blacks as shiftless law breakers best dealt with by wars on crime, drugs and poverty that undermined whatever was left of black culture.
And now we've shifted to a blame-the-victim strategy that says that, on the one hand things are so much better (no slavery, they can vote if they try, etc. etc.), so on the other hand any remaining problems in the black community are its own fault, so let's just more or less forget about them and focus (as always) on what's best for the rest of us.
And of course we can see direct parallels to all this in the history of our treatment of native Americans and, now, recent immigrants who do our dirty work for poverty level wages. And yes, we can cite examples of various past immigrant communities that overcame discrimination to assimilate and succeed, conveniently ignoring the fact that those groups weren't BLACK.
But God help a black man who dares to show that, despite all this, black fathers may not be doing such a bad job after all.
96
"Let's see, first we enslaved an entire race of people in our country."
Who is this "we" that you refer to? Certainly I am not included in this "we". In fact no one alive today is included that “we”. On the other hand the “progressive” policies that have encouraged, financially, out of wedlock births are primarily responsibility for the problems Blow refers to.
Who is this "we" that you refer to? Certainly I am not included in this "we". In fact no one alive today is included that “we”. On the other hand the “progressive” policies that have encouraged, financially, out of wedlock births are primarily responsibility for the problems Blow refers to.
9
Terry - the reason people are perplexed and as you highlight will point to the myriad waves of immigrants who were all but enslaved over the years - and still today is the inability of African Americans to rise out of this cycle. Although you note that the immigrant groups that do succeed aren't black you are wrong. The black people I know who are colleagues and neighbors are of Carribean descent and have been growing up the income ladder - I am working with the the first generation Americans and my children are attending the same schools and will run in the same circles as their children.
I understand liberal policies to help the less fortunate and I support local charitable efforts to help disadvantaged people, especially children. But there is some grain of truth that liberal policies and agenda have made things worse for the portion of the black community stuck in dysfunction. Just so you understand I am not critical of poor blacks, I'd say those same policies have left poor whites in our rural areas way far behind. Whereas the decline has been more precipitous for whites I would say both groups are being failed by the very policies the Democrats have brought us. Its time for some fresh thinking.
I understand liberal policies to help the less fortunate and I support local charitable efforts to help disadvantaged people, especially children. But there is some grain of truth that liberal policies and agenda have made things worse for the portion of the black community stuck in dysfunction. Just so you understand I am not critical of poor blacks, I'd say those same policies have left poor whites in our rural areas way far behind. Whereas the decline has been more precipitous for whites I would say both groups are being failed by the very policies the Democrats have brought us. Its time for some fresh thinking.
4
Here in the deep South there are plenty of poor women, both black and white, who have children with different men. Among both blacks and whites here, there is a dearth of suitable husbands. Even with married couples, it's not a pretty picture in many cases. The wife has a good job with benefits, and the husband is living on wife support. The divorce rate is high, and Mississippi has the highest number of people who are married for the third time or higher than any other state.
There are a lot of lousy fathers in every class and race, but poverty, mass incarceration of poor men and ignorance have caused it be an institution here in the South and elsewhere. Our society has become so broken I don't know how it can ever be repaired. As long as we keep making black men our scapegoats, we spare ourselves from looking at the policies wrought by white men that are destroying the very fabric of our society.
There are a lot of lousy fathers in every class and race, but poverty, mass incarceration of poor men and ignorance have caused it be an institution here in the South and elsewhere. Our society has become so broken I don't know how it can ever be repaired. As long as we keep making black men our scapegoats, we spare ourselves from looking at the policies wrought by white men that are destroying the very fabric of our society.
11
I'm surprised by the hostility in so many of the responses to Charles Blow's column. In many cases, the attacks are based on contentions that his column ignores reality, is composed of anecdotes, or cherry-picks the statistics.
But the data are clear, they're not Blow's data, and they're not cherry-picked:
African-American fathers who live with their children score better than either Hispanic fathers or White fathers in the percentages of them who feed or eat meals with their kids daily; who bathed, diapered or dressed their kids daily; and who read to their kids daily. Only on "played with children daily" did African-Americans not exceed the others - and there they lagged by only one-half a percent.
Similarly, for fathers not living with their children, African-American fathers outscored Hispanic and White fathers on all indicators.
Our society has been excoriating black fathers for a couple of generations now about children and paternal responsibility, and it looks like African-Americans have learned the lesson better than other groups. Is it that we can't take "yes" for an answer"? Or is it that we refuse to allow the possibility that African-Americans might score better than us on fathering skills, or, for that matter, on anything at all?
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
But the data are clear, they're not Blow's data, and they're not cherry-picked:
African-American fathers who live with their children score better than either Hispanic fathers or White fathers in the percentages of them who feed or eat meals with their kids daily; who bathed, diapered or dressed their kids daily; and who read to their kids daily. Only on "played with children daily" did African-Americans not exceed the others - and there they lagged by only one-half a percent.
Similarly, for fathers not living with their children, African-American fathers outscored Hispanic and White fathers on all indicators.
Our society has been excoriating black fathers for a couple of generations now about children and paternal responsibility, and it looks like African-Americans have learned the lesson better than other groups. Is it that we can't take "yes" for an answer"? Or is it that we refuse to allow the possibility that African-Americans might score better than us on fathering skills, or, for that matter, on anything at all?
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
10
Untrue. Completely untrue. Look at the data. 98% of White fathers living at home reported reading to their kids several times a week or more, while 94% of Black fathers living at home reported reading to their kids several times a week or more.
93% of the same White fathers said they bathed, fed, dressed, etc. their kids several times a week or more while only 87% of Black fathers reported the same.
Do you understand what the term "cherry-picked" means? B/c to some extent, I cherry picked the above statistics. But they are true statistics from the same data.
But here is a non-cherry-picked statistic. Black fathers are more than twice as likely not to live with their kids. And this statistic doesn't even include the roughly half million incarcerated Black fathers--another stat Blow conveniently avoids.
93% of the same White fathers said they bathed, fed, dressed, etc. their kids several times a week or more while only 87% of Black fathers reported the same.
Do you understand what the term "cherry-picked" means? B/c to some extent, I cherry picked the above statistics. But they are true statistics from the same data.
But here is a non-cherry-picked statistic. Black fathers are more than twice as likely not to live with their kids. And this statistic doesn't even include the roughly half million incarcerated Black fathers--another stat Blow conveniently avoids.
9
The measure of how well parents do is how well the children turn out. Having one in twelve black men in prison suggests they are not doing so well. I know children raised by divorced couples who have turned out quite well by any measure. All this stuff about the magical powers of Las Vegas wedding chapels seems kind of silly; simply look at what kind of adults grow out of these relationships.
4
You haven't mentioned one of the most important facts about being black in urban America. Many young black men avoid incarceration only by living on the fringes of civil society, unable to acknowledge their real identities to officialdom for fear of being sent down on one of the many trivial and/or trumped-up charges which the police have at their disposal. For such men, marriage is impossible and regular employment, a fixed address and a settled existence as part of a family are a hopeless dream.
1
No, black dads are not doing the best of all. At least not the majority. We have to face this head on before things will improve. And this goes for all races. I for one resent feeding my tax dollars into a support system that is failing. It is clear that there is a monetary advantage for single, stay-at-home women to have more children. A one child limit should help. Follow up with required education and application of birth control and this trend would quickly be reversed. Of course we all know people who are exceptions, but denying that this is a big problem will not make it go away.
23
Mr. Blow, I invite you to come to California and do your own research and then report your findings in the NYT. If you come to the hospitals in CA where I live that have welfare patients, you will find statistics that will make you weep. Other ethnic groups have children when young and often more than one or two. However, if you show up at these hospitals, you will find that by far, the black mothers have children younger, and it is not uncommon to admit mothers who in their teens having their second or third child by different men. The workers who actually see this every day can tell you that black mothers are admitted with 3,5,or 10 or more children. As for Fathers, which was the subject of your opinion piece, the women often have multiple children with multiple fathers. One case, stands out as the poster father for this problem. A black father who bragged that he had 42 children. He supports none of them. He does live with the women who get welfare. This happens every day.
I understand your concern about racism and I often agree with observations about race that you write about. However, you are part of the problem when you dismiss or excuse or ignore the culture problem in many poor black communities. There is nothing positive about Fathers who provide sperm and nothing else to support and educate their children, and it is a big problem in black communities. I think you know that. Write about changing the culture that
condones this behavior.
I understand your concern about racism and I often agree with observations about race that you write about. However, you are part of the problem when you dismiss or excuse or ignore the culture problem in many poor black communities. There is nothing positive about Fathers who provide sperm and nothing else to support and educate their children, and it is a big problem in black communities. I think you know that. Write about changing the culture that
condones this behavior.
76
Only in the mind of progressive pseudo intellectuals like Mr. Blow is a community having nearly 3/4s of its children born into broken homes a good thing.
The black community is being destroyed from within by a cultural cancer. Unfortunately, the so-called "talented tenth" like Mr. Blow show they have no talent at all and refuse to acknowledge what every sane person with a lick of common sense knows to be true.
I suspect Mr. Blow does not want to acknowledge the reality of the situation because to do so is to be intellectually honest about the results of his liberal philosophy and how it has utterly destroyed the black community at the roots.
The high crime levels, poor educational attainment, the supposed wealth inequality, etc all can be traced back to the baby mama syndrome that is plaguing the black community. It isn't the klan. It isn't republicans. It isn't tea partiers. it isn't out of control cops supposedly hunting down little black boys. But to acknowledge this is to admit that isn't really racism holding back black folks. It is black folks holding back black folks.
I'm a proud black Dad who was married 13 years before having my first child with my wife. We waiting until we were on solid footing financially before even remotely considering having children. To think we now have black journalist trying to some how justify or excuse the rampant out of wedlock birth rates in the black community when we know what kind of damage it causes is just pathetic.
The black community is being destroyed from within by a cultural cancer. Unfortunately, the so-called "talented tenth" like Mr. Blow show they have no talent at all and refuse to acknowledge what every sane person with a lick of common sense knows to be true.
I suspect Mr. Blow does not want to acknowledge the reality of the situation because to do so is to be intellectually honest about the results of his liberal philosophy and how it has utterly destroyed the black community at the roots.
The high crime levels, poor educational attainment, the supposed wealth inequality, etc all can be traced back to the baby mama syndrome that is plaguing the black community. It isn't the klan. It isn't republicans. It isn't tea partiers. it isn't out of control cops supposedly hunting down little black boys. But to acknowledge this is to admit that isn't really racism holding back black folks. It is black folks holding back black folks.
I'm a proud black Dad who was married 13 years before having my first child with my wife. We waiting until we were on solid footing financially before even remotely considering having children. To think we now have black journalist trying to some how justify or excuse the rampant out of wedlock birth rates in the black community when we know what kind of damage it causes is just pathetic.
103
This is another example of defense-attorney journalism. Manyh black columnist feel they have to do this to defend "the people" even if the behavior is indefensible.
I'm 65 and grew up in a black working-class neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago. All the families on my block were intact, that is both parents were present. Today I would venture to say there's not a married couple living there. The effects of this disturbing trend are evident, and we can't rationalize it like Mr. Blow is attempting to do here.
I'm 65 and grew up in a black working-class neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago. All the families on my block were intact, that is both parents were present. Today I would venture to say there's not a married couple living there. The effects of this disturbing trend are evident, and we can't rationalize it like Mr. Blow is attempting to do here.
65
it would be refreshing if all Americans would be honest with themselves and admit that there are two standards of justice: one for those with resources and another for those from ALL racial and ethnic backgrounds who are in the LOW INCOME category. Those who have highly competent legal assistance are frequently able to protect their children from being incarcerated. Others who do not must submit to plea bargaining.
If your OWN child was arrested and facing incarceration, would you hire a personal lawyer or rely upon an overworked, modestly funded public defender?
If your OWN child was arrested and facing incarceration, would you hire a personal lawyer or rely upon an overworked, modestly funded public defender?
8
There is no pathology in black America that Mr. Blow will not try to explain away, since they raise questions of culture and self-responsibility he generally refuses to acknowledge. Black youths are slaughtering each other in ridiculous numbers (as well as other people, when they get the chance), yet Mr. Blow seems more concerned about trying to deny the obvious with ham-handed efforts to prove Mark Twain right about statistics.
56
It's easy to be "self-responsible" (odd term) when you are white, living in a dominant white culture, that white people made, for white people.
2
three cheers for mark twain. nothing has changed . "figures never lie but liars always figure"
and then there are those journalists like charles blow, who refuse to read a mathematician reads the newspaper. mr. blow is badly in need of a class in statistics 101. the again the course might only allow him to do a better job at obfuscating reality.
and then there are those journalists like charles blow, who refuse to read a mathematician reads the newspaper. mr. blow is badly in need of a class in statistics 101. the again the course might only allow him to do a better job at obfuscating reality.
4
I believe Charles has finally gone off the deep end. I've never seen anyone jump through so many hoops, twist so many facts or dodge so many truths in order to continue the trope that white racism causes all Black ills. I haven't heard anyone on the left or right ever say that there aren't problems in the Black family that reverberate throughout the community, until now.
I'll agree that it makes sense to quit putting people of all races in jail for nonviolent crimes, de-criminalize drugs, etc. That may put more Black men back on the street. Whether this will solve anything I don't know, but it will remove a barrier and an excuse.
And as for those who believe that Blacks receive harsher sentences than Whites for the same crime, consider the possibility that judges assess the total person when passing sentence. For the same nonviolent offense, who is likely to get the lighter sentence -- a college student with a strong record, whose held jobs and has basically made a mistake, or a drop out with gang associations and no strong family environment?
I've know some very fine Black men who were married, had kids and stayed with their families for life. That doesn't change the fact that over the last few years there has been a decline in the Black family and that has led to problems with Black youth. Charles can use all the legerdemain in his power but it won't change the situation and simply makes most of us shake our heads in wonder at how far he will go.
I'll agree that it makes sense to quit putting people of all races in jail for nonviolent crimes, de-criminalize drugs, etc. That may put more Black men back on the street. Whether this will solve anything I don't know, but it will remove a barrier and an excuse.
And as for those who believe that Blacks receive harsher sentences than Whites for the same crime, consider the possibility that judges assess the total person when passing sentence. For the same nonviolent offense, who is likely to get the lighter sentence -- a college student with a strong record, whose held jobs and has basically made a mistake, or a drop out with gang associations and no strong family environment?
I've know some very fine Black men who were married, had kids and stayed with their families for life. That doesn't change the fact that over the last few years there has been a decline in the Black family and that has led to problems with Black youth. Charles can use all the legerdemain in his power but it won't change the situation and simply makes most of us shake our heads in wonder at how far he will go.
44
Is today April Fool's day? No black dads are not the best of all. Try Asian-American dads, who have the highest intact marriage rate, whose children have the highest college graduation rate, whose children are far more likely to marry themselves, and whose children are the least likely to have their children outside of marriage.
113
Chloe,
Grabbed the words right out of my mouth. As an Asian American dad, I often analyze my/my family's challenges with those of other minorities (and the majority). It is no more obvious to me that personal responsibility and discipline are dominating factors in my life right now. I look at other dads and try to raise my game, if I can. No point in joining a race to the bottom...Mr. Blow conveniently compares black dad performance with Hispanic dads and Whites. Let's put all the data in. Then let's raise our collective game. For example, I am trying to teach my son the benefits of fixing things, something that my White dad friends are so good and natural at doing. Mr. Blow is doing everyone a disservice by saying, 'hey, it's bad, but not that bad'
Grabbed the words right out of my mouth. As an Asian American dad, I often analyze my/my family's challenges with those of other minorities (and the majority). It is no more obvious to me that personal responsibility and discipline are dominating factors in my life right now. I look at other dads and try to raise my game, if I can. No point in joining a race to the bottom...Mr. Blow conveniently compares black dad performance with Hispanic dads and Whites. Let's put all the data in. Then let's raise our collective game. For example, I am trying to teach my son the benefits of fixing things, something that my White dad friends are so good and natural at doing. Mr. Blow is doing everyone a disservice by saying, 'hey, it's bad, but not that bad'
6
this implies there is something wrong with white dads. why can't the white dads do better than the Asian ones? what's wrong with white men? why can't they get their act together? Maybe they are just thugs and animals.
4
I eagerly read Mr. Blow's columns even though I often don't agree with him. He is one of the best things about the NYT. However, this column is mystifying. I don't see how black fathers are doing "best of all" considering the statistics cited in the column. It seems to me that there is still a crisis both of the culture in general (mass incarceration) but also of character. The truth is not all one-sided.
22
This column seems to be all over the place and I've no idea what the point was that was trying to be made? I've no doubt there are plenty of good, responsible black fathers out there. However, no one can deny that among many poor, uneducated women (whether black or white), that having babies with multiple men is more common, and usually results in nothing but trouble for the mother and the kids as a whole. If anything, I'd say the problem is more with the mothers than the fathers. If it's true that there aren't enough black men to go around, and so long as women and girls are being 'careless' about who they get involved with (and when there is no type of agreed commitment between the two parties, there was no advance planning for bringing a new life into this world, the woman already has enough 'drama' in her life, etc.), it's the women who need to take more control of themselves and their lives. They can kid themselves all they want, but we see far too many girls/women bringing kids into the world, when they have no business doing so. The girls/women make their own lives harder, and ensure that the cycle of poverty continues. Not good for their kids, and not good for society as a whole.
42
One of the most intelligent summaries of the problem. Bravo
2
Unfortunately for a large majority of these women...1) the idea of having a child to love is powerful as they suffer from acute loneliness in many cases (having been raised without a family structure) and 2) there is some dillusion that your situation will end up differently and 3) in some cases the welfare and increasingly the more generous disability check that children reap is enough of an incentive to continue to make poor decisions
6
"that there is something fundamental, and intrinsic about black men that is flawed"
I don't know anyone that makes that argument. The argument is that our Central government "progressives" have created perverse financial incentives that encourage out of wedlock births. This has been going on for two generations so for a large percentage of the black population it has become the norm. As usual Blow your counter arguments are too convoluted and require too many assumptions to be accepted by people that think using logic rather than emotion.
I don't know anyone that makes that argument. The argument is that our Central government "progressives" have created perverse financial incentives that encourage out of wedlock births. This has been going on for two generations so for a large percentage of the black population it has become the norm. As usual Blow your counter arguments are too convoluted and require too many assumptions to be accepted by people that think using logic rather than emotion.
39
Mr. Blow provides numerical data along with sources. Many events across this nation have targeted black men and children because of fools who assume and assign flaws. Whether we look at the police lieutenant in Winter Park Florida who regretted (in 2014) that Trayvon Martin was not drowned at birth or any of the thousands of murders, false imprisonment and wrong executions of black men by the State, Mr. Blow is talking about institutionalized racism. That is part of American history. You may also find evidence of there being more white people and companies who access "perverse financial incentives". Mr. Blow is walking the walk and his writing may not be dismissed as easily as that of an unverifiable blowhard.
3
For all of those commenters who are criticising Charles Blow's supposed claim that "Black Dad's are the best" as being wrong headed and statistically innacurrate... You are completely missing the point and don't understand nuance.
Let me explain. Blow isn't really making a claim about black parenting. He isn't saying that black kids are doing great, nor is he "really" saying that black dads are awesome. He is pointing out that shorthand descriptors mixed with convential wisdom are actually a really misleading way of evaluating societal problems. The invetible conclusion of which are infantile solutions to problems requiring a more complicated kind of response.
He raises some very good points:
1. What does it mean to be married? Blow points out that many black families are intact and married in all but name. The qualities Marriage supposedly signifies, such as time fathers spend with kids, when dissaggregated paint a very different picture than black marriage stats alone imply.
2.If a black father is forceably sepparated from his family... is it meaningful to treat him as an absentee father who is willfully neglecting his children? Do campaigns that get black dad's to pay more attention to their kids make sense if the "available" (non-dead/incarcerated) black dad's are already spending a disproportionately large amount of time with their kids?
3. The societal ramifications of black men having a 2 to 1 advantage in choice of mate... are really profound.
Let me explain. Blow isn't really making a claim about black parenting. He isn't saying that black kids are doing great, nor is he "really" saying that black dads are awesome. He is pointing out that shorthand descriptors mixed with convential wisdom are actually a really misleading way of evaluating societal problems. The invetible conclusion of which are infantile solutions to problems requiring a more complicated kind of response.
He raises some very good points:
1. What does it mean to be married? Blow points out that many black families are intact and married in all but name. The qualities Marriage supposedly signifies, such as time fathers spend with kids, when dissaggregated paint a very different picture than black marriage stats alone imply.
2.If a black father is forceably sepparated from his family... is it meaningful to treat him as an absentee father who is willfully neglecting his children? Do campaigns that get black dad's to pay more attention to their kids make sense if the "available" (non-dead/incarcerated) black dad's are already spending a disproportionately large amount of time with their kids?
3. The societal ramifications of black men having a 2 to 1 advantage in choice of mate... are really profound.
41
This column is akin to the politicians & black activists in Chicago who're so irate about Spike Lee calling his new film "Chiraq" because it gives the black underclass neighborhoods it portrays a bad name. Meanwhile the entire country knows these neighborhoods are bloody war zones of gang violence. And everyone also knows that there are hundreds of thousands of innocent black people being victimized by these thugs. So why would anyone try to deny that there's a big problem? Why do they seek to force Spike Lee to pretend it doesn't exist when he's probably the one moviemaker who could treat it in it's entirety, showing both the underlying history of racism in this country & the self-destructive behavior of the black underclass?
Here Mr. Blow seeks to convince people that the lack of two-parent families really isn't as bad of a problem as it seems while also blaming the lack of marriageable black men on their high rate of incarceration--as if those men would have actually gotten married but for their arrest & jailing!! Why is it so hard to admit that there's a problem and that two-parent families are necessary from both an economic & social standpoint? Why can't the black intelligentsia take the lead in saying that having multiple babies with multiple men starting when you're a teenager is a really bad thing? You have to acknowledge that there's a problem before you can do something about it.
Here Mr. Blow seeks to convince people that the lack of two-parent families really isn't as bad of a problem as it seems while also blaming the lack of marriageable black men on their high rate of incarceration--as if those men would have actually gotten married but for their arrest & jailing!! Why is it so hard to admit that there's a problem and that two-parent families are necessary from both an economic & social standpoint? Why can't the black intelligentsia take the lead in saying that having multiple babies with multiple men starting when you're a teenager is a really bad thing? You have to acknowledge that there's a problem before you can do something about it.
56
Yes, Mr. Blow, we need to keep the criminals in the community to commit more crime and make more babies.
35
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men, sucking hundreds of thousands of marriage-age men out of the community."
This makes it sound like a giant robot appeared in the sky and grabbed up all the black men, who of course were just innocently standing by waiting to get married. How absurd.
Mr. Blow seems to think this magical thinking is helpful, but what message is he really sending by absolving black men of all personal responsibility? This notion that they're all just victims of racism and bad PR, and that they can't possibly have done anything wrong to merit incarceration....well, that's just ridiculous. And it's offensive to every hard-working, law-abiding black man I know.
This makes it sound like a giant robot appeared in the sky and grabbed up all the black men, who of course were just innocently standing by waiting to get married. How absurd.
Mr. Blow seems to think this magical thinking is helpful, but what message is he really sending by absolving black men of all personal responsibility? This notion that they're all just victims of racism and bad PR, and that they can't possibly have done anything wrong to merit incarceration....well, that's just ridiculous. And it's offensive to every hard-working, law-abiding black man I know.
30
I don't care about whether black (or white) fathers are "derelict." I don't care whether black (or white) women have no children, one child or a score of children. What I care about is WHO IS SUPPORTING and caring for the children? Cuz I don't want to through paying higher taxes to house/clothe/feed those children or to turn schools into substitute families/detention facilities rather than places to learn or to have to hire more cops and build more prisons because of family dysfunction. And I'm pretty sure I AM paying higher taxes to pay for all those things.
There's NO excuse for ANY man or woman to have a child if, at the time of impregnation, they are unable to care for their own future child.
There's NO excuse for ANY man or woman to have a child if, at the time of impregnation, they are unable to care for their own future child.
21
It's startling that there are so many white experts on black problems. Their Thesis is always the same. "Black men bad, white men good." Of course nobody in the same world is buying their bull.
6
'...Furthermore, a 2013 C.D.C. report found that black and Hispanic women are far more likely to experience a pregnancy during the first year of cohabitation than white and Asian women...'
Why is this? And how is this not a problem, especially since the percentage of black and Hispanic women on welfare is much higher than the percentage of white and Asian women, in comparison to their total percentage of the population?
'...Second, some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time. This phenomenon means that a father can live with some but not all of his children. Levs calls these men “serial impregnators,” but I think something more than promiscuity and irresponsibility are at play here...'
No matter how Mr Blow wants to spin it, men having children with multiple women or women having children with multiple men is the very definition of 'promiscuity and irresponsibility'.
Why is this? And how is this not a problem, especially since the percentage of black and Hispanic women on welfare is much higher than the percentage of white and Asian women, in comparison to their total percentage of the population?
'...Second, some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time. This phenomenon means that a father can live with some but not all of his children. Levs calls these men “serial impregnators,” but I think something more than promiscuity and irresponsibility are at play here...'
No matter how Mr Blow wants to spin it, men having children with multiple women or women having children with multiple men is the very definition of 'promiscuity and irresponsibility'.
20
Why get married?
The government, my taxes, gives housing, food, etc. to these women. There is no incentive to NOT GET PREGNANT!!
It use to & maybe still is called, "workin welfare".
The more kids they have the more government support them - larger living space, more food stamp allowance, etc.
If the money was cut off the maybe the legs would be kept together & the pants zipped.
The government, my taxes, gives housing, food, etc. to these women. There is no incentive to NOT GET PREGNANT!!
It use to & maybe still is called, "workin welfare".
The more kids they have the more government support them - larger living space, more food stamp allowance, etc.
If the money was cut off the maybe the legs would be kept together & the pants zipped.
22
Brother Charles, Damn your facts and the reality that you actually know black people . Do you not know that the people who dont even have blk friends and watch/listen to conservative radio know better.
While i am a strong believer that blk people in america can not properly address the gap in income because of our marriage rates. the Myth of blk men not being involved in their children lives is a myth that white people ( as you see from comments) depend and nothing you can say will change how they view us
While i am a strong believer that blk people in america can not properly address the gap in income because of our marriage rates. the Myth of blk men not being involved in their children lives is a myth that white people ( as you see from comments) depend and nothing you can say will change how they view us
9
Mr Blow is a limousine liberal who, at this point in his life, I would venture, has very little connection to the reality of the people he is writing about.
7
If adolescent and adult behavior of the children were the measure of quality parenting (rather than self-reported playing, etc.) then, no, black fathers are not doing "best of all."
16
Here's a NYTimes op-ed:
"It's a Myth that Black Fathers are Absent" by Kenrya Rankin Naasel.
Ms. Naasel wrote:
".....whether or not they live under the same roof, black dads are actually more involved with their children than their white and Latino counterparts, spending more time feeding, dressing, playing with and reading to their children."
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/03/12/the-assumptions-behind-o...
"It's a Myth that Black Fathers are Absent" by Kenrya Rankin Naasel.
Ms. Naasel wrote:
".....whether or not they live under the same roof, black dads are actually more involved with their children than their white and Latino counterparts, spending more time feeding, dressing, playing with and reading to their children."
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/03/12/the-assumptions-behind-o...
2
"Second, some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time...Levs calls these men “serial impregnators,” but I think something more than promiscuity and irresponsibility are at play here."
No. Nothing more than promiscuity, irresponsibility, and immorality are at play here.
Blow turns statistics upside down and twists numbers in yet another attempt to deny the undeniable and to mislead readers.
No. Nothing more than promiscuity, irresponsibility, and immorality are at play here.
Blow turns statistics upside down and twists numbers in yet another attempt to deny the undeniable and to mislead readers.
17
The problem of missing black men would not exist if people were more open to dating outside their race. There is no law any more that black men must have relationships with only black women or vice versa. This article's assumption that there are few interracial relationships is accurate, but it just shows that deep down, people are still really tribal. As long as people are so tribal, the problem of racism and racial inequality will always be with us.
1
From what I have read, Asian-American women have the highest percentage of interracial marriages while African-American women have the lowest.
1
"There is an astounding amount of mythology loaded into this stereotype, one that echoes a history of efforts to rob black masculinity of honor and fidelity."
A big component of this mythology is white man's fear of "their" women hooking up with the black "stud" - dating all the way back to the days of slavery. The underlying message being: "Hey white ladies, don't make it with a black guy, cuz if he knocks you up he's not gonna stick around..."
A big component of this mythology is white man's fear of "their" women hooking up with the black "stud" - dating all the way back to the days of slavery. The underlying message being: "Hey white ladies, don't make it with a black guy, cuz if he knocks you up he's not gonna stick around..."
2
Using those CDC numbers to support the headline that "Black Dads Are Doing Best of All" borders on desperation. So what if black dads living with their kids spend more time interacting with them, when the problem is that black dads are MUCH less likely to live with their kids. Let's keep it real here and not lie with statistics.
18
The odds are stacked against a young black man. Despite all the arguments about coming a long way, about having a black president--the truth is, finding a living wage job is more difficult, and a target is on black men to be arrested, a target to be "disciplined" in school, possibly a target to be "disciplined" at work. The overt message: you are not to be trusted; you need to be watched. The pressure and stress that all this puts a young man is hard to measure, but no doubt plays a roll in the percentage of broken families. The remedy: Stop this irrational pressure. Our culture needs to legislate past the residual Jim Crow of incarceration and disproportionate "discipline" that undermines identity and security. Keep in mind the incarceration is legal; the "discipline" is legal--just like the evil laws were in the Jim Crow south.
7
Mr. Blow will write any number or words to keep from having to talk about behavior. When he stops doing that, he may begin to earn some shred of credibility.
29
Engrained social pressure to have children is stronger in some cohorts than others. Men are made to think they need have children to prove their masculinity. The message to society should be that raising the child after impregnating someone is the measure of masculinity, not being an irresponsible sperm donor.
19
A corollary message should be that it's acceptable for men to remain child-free, and one shouldn't be viewed as less masculine for making this (sometimes difficult) choice.
4
Anecdotal evidence in my area is contrary to Blow's conclusion. Most the of the young African American children I know do not see their father frequently, or at all. We've welcomed many of these youth into our home for a meal, or to spend the night. The common theme is no father. In some cases, the father is dead. Killed in a crime scene. Other fathers are in jail. Some just disappear. A neighbor had a child by her black boyfriend. I used to see him all the time, but not once since the birth. The child is now 2, and the mother is raising the child alone. Where did the father go? The fathers who do stick around are often doing yeoman's work, there's just not enough of them.
27
Missing from Mr Blow's column is any mention of birth control.
The closing of Planned Parenthood offices across the country leaves women of all colors with fewer opportunities to get and use birth control. Family planning would clearly reduce the number of households without fathers, and allow women to make strides in employment.
It would also greatly reduce the number of abortions that Republican men say is the scourge of our nation.
The closing of Planned Parenthood offices across the country leaves women of all colors with fewer opportunities to get and use birth control. Family planning would clearly reduce the number of households without fathers, and allow women to make strides in employment.
It would also greatly reduce the number of abortions that Republican men say is the scourge of our nation.
16
I believe we ask the wrong question. It should be : How are black families doing?
7
Mr. Blow, your columns might improve if you read Professor Krugman's 'Fighting the Derp' column today. While that column focuses on economic derp, it still applies to racially charged derp.
Black dads are not doing the best of all. You can cherry pick statistics and quote excerpts from books and articles that agree with you all you want but it doesn't change the basic facts. Having multiple children with multiple women is economically, morally and culturally unsustainable.
There are many factors that society as a whole has control over however, which can and should be counted as factors, like setting a living wage, properly educating and providing other services when necessary.
But our responsibility as citizens only goes so far, after all, we did not impregnate the woman/women, the man did, and it is his responsibility, not ours.
Black dads are not doing the best of all. You can cherry pick statistics and quote excerpts from books and articles that agree with you all you want but it doesn't change the basic facts. Having multiple children with multiple women is economically, morally and culturally unsustainable.
There are many factors that society as a whole has control over however, which can and should be counted as factors, like setting a living wage, properly educating and providing other services when necessary.
But our responsibility as citizens only goes so far, after all, we did not impregnate the woman/women, the man did, and it is his responsibility, not ours.
33
As a Liberal we all ridiculed Dan Quayle when he said single motherhood was bad for the kids. (The Murphy Brown incident)
Many years later I feel the conservatives are right on that point.
Many years later I feel the conservatives are right on that point.
34
A 35-year-old woman with a good education and a very good job, along with a stable extended family, can take care of a child. And especially if that child is adopted, it's a very lucky baby.
A 15-year-old who drops out of school because she is pregnant and has a child either because she thinks her boyfriend will love her more or because she's sick of living in her mother's dysfunctional home and wants her own apartment -- paid for by people who no doubt use birth control -- is an idiot and a burden.
A 15-year-old who drops out of school because she is pregnant and has a child either because she thinks her boyfriend will love her more or because she's sick of living in her mother's dysfunctional home and wants her own apartment -- paid for by people who no doubt use birth control -- is an idiot and a burden.
3
Mr. Blow is spot on about Black fathers. I am in a profession and a neighborhood where there are many Blacks. From personal experience, I could firmly conclude that the stereotype of a Black family is totally incorrect. The nurse I work with could'nt be a more exemplary father. All the other nurses I know have stable married lives married to the same man for years. My colleague, a Black is the best physician I know, way superior than all of us. Frankly we don't even notice his skin color. I am bringing this up just to debunk these false notions and certainly not to show my magnanimity. It's just the truth. On either side of my tree-lined street are two cops. I have seen them take their babies for a stroll or giggling and laughing with their kids in their backyard. In fact, there's is a typical American family no different from any other. As NYT pointed out if 1.5 million are missing why would'nt there be single mothers? It's simple arithmetic. Serial impregnators are the exception, not the rule. And coming to conclusions based on exceptions is absolutely skewed. The fact is if black men did'nt disappear wasting their best years incarcerated while awaiting trial, we would be caught in our lie and sink in a bathtub.
4
Says NI from WESTCHESTER. Come down here to Baltimore. You might change your tune. Plus the sample size is a bit larger here than in Westchester.
2
Mr. Blow lately your observations seem to me not insightful, but cries for no one to find fault with black culture and that seems to this white lady to be unhelpful. I remember teaching art to a group of 4th graders who mostly lived in a nearby housing project. As Mother's Day approached they wanted to make cards for their moms. When Father's Day was upon us I suggested we make cards for their fathers. Well there was a complete melt down, kids crying for lack of a dad or too many uncles. I felt guilty for causing pain to these beautiful children for a long time. Then I realized it was not me who caused their pain. I have worked with too many African-American children to buy into your column today. Also I noted in a recent comment I had just finished reading your memoir that told the story of your young life. It was a wonderful book, but didn't exactly portray black fathers as shinning lights in their communities. You described a culture vastly different from my personal experiences growing up and believe me it wasn't an upper class existence. Your story was actually a bit scary. You need to except our differences that make understanding hard sometimes.
35
Even if you discount racism and unfairness in the system, blacks themselves are responsible for the high rate of Incarceration and early deaths.
25
"“There are about 2.5 million black fathers living with their children and about 1.7 million living apart from them.”
So about 40% of black fathers live apart from their children.
1) I would be appalled about any group of fathers where 40% of their number lived apart from their children.
2) What does the statistic look like if we ask what percentage of black children live apart from their fathers. For example, do incarcerated fathers (of any race) have fewer children than those fathers who are not incarcerated.
When I read any article which cites a lot of numbers I am always reminded of the classic book: "How to Lie with Statistics" (https://archive.org/details/HowToLieWithStatistics)
because I always wind up thinking, "What isn't the author telling me?" if I don't see the actual data.
The recent case of Donald Green, of Columbia, and Michael LaCour, the grad student, where the latter would not let the former see the data is another such instance. How could Green put his name on a paper when he had no access to the data upon which the conclusions were supposed to have been drawn?
So about 40% of black fathers live apart from their children.
1) I would be appalled about any group of fathers where 40% of their number lived apart from their children.
2) What does the statistic look like if we ask what percentage of black children live apart from their fathers. For example, do incarcerated fathers (of any race) have fewer children than those fathers who are not incarcerated.
When I read any article which cites a lot of numbers I am always reminded of the classic book: "How to Lie with Statistics" (https://archive.org/details/HowToLieWithStatistics)
because I always wind up thinking, "What isn't the author telling me?" if I don't see the actual data.
The recent case of Donald Green, of Columbia, and Michael LaCour, the grad student, where the latter would not let the former see the data is another such instance. How could Green put his name on a paper when he had no access to the data upon which the conclusions were supposed to have been drawn?
15
Charles Blow's argument once again resorts to a logical fallacy to get the result that he wants--the false dilemma or the either/or fallacy. Either there is nothing at all wrong with black family structures or there is "something fundamental and intrinsic about black men that is flawed, that black fathers are pathologically prone to desertion..." There's a huge range of factors between the extremes that "Black dads are doing best of all" and an "intrinsic pathology," between claiming that there's nothing wrong or there's nothing to be done. Some day perhaps Charles Blow will look into some of them.
19
Everyone who finished high school knew that the mis-written federal welfare laws cause the disappearance of black fathers from the poor home. The Great Society included AFDC, and the politicians said that the only way to get AFDC written in to provide cash in the poor black or, mostly, white homes was to have fathers written out of the picture.
Just as Obamacare was mis-written to force states to do something independent Americans would simply never do - set up state exchanges - the 1960's laws were similarly never thought out. Obviously, no one said this would end up redicecting $22 trillion in 50 years.
The most racist thing going TODAY though, is the Pacific Education Group's anti-black learning idea of not having school discipline poor black kids. Really!
Nothing any cracker racist ever thought of will get more young black people killed than this PEG concept of just letting black kids run wild. No wonder the only place they made millions peddling it was in the big cities of Minnesota, who have always bought into the starkest socialist ideas anybody showed up with.
I couldn't believe it either.
Just as Obamacare was mis-written to force states to do something independent Americans would simply never do - set up state exchanges - the 1960's laws were similarly never thought out. Obviously, no one said this would end up redicecting $22 trillion in 50 years.
The most racist thing going TODAY though, is the Pacific Education Group's anti-black learning idea of not having school discipline poor black kids. Really!
Nothing any cracker racist ever thought of will get more young black people killed than this PEG concept of just letting black kids run wild. No wonder the only place they made millions peddling it was in the big cities of Minnesota, who have always bought into the starkest socialist ideas anybody showed up with.
I couldn't believe it either.
10
I am sadly fascinated by the obvious racism and fear inherent in the commenters' push-back against Mr. Blow's analysis.
57
Yes @joddy, that's the problem. Blow and others have it set up so if you counter any argument, even with statistical facts, even to point out factual errors he has made then you are a racist--hence it justifies the argument that "see, just a bunch of racists..."
But that's wrong. I want to see all people live happy productive lives, African Americans included. I also want to see journalists write as clearly and accurately as possible so that policymakers and the public can be informed and effect positive change.
Blow willfully omits the most telling statistic from the CDC study in his column: black fathers are more than twice as likely to live apart from their kids as white fathers. He also fails to mention that Black fathers are roughly five times more likely to be incarcerated than White fathers, and that the incarcerated population isn't included in the CDC study. Half a million Black fathers behind bars, away from their children, that Blow absolves of responsibility with his column.
But that's wrong. I want to see all people live happy productive lives, African Americans included. I also want to see journalists write as clearly and accurately as possible so that policymakers and the public can be informed and effect positive change.
Blow willfully omits the most telling statistic from the CDC study in his column: black fathers are more than twice as likely to live apart from their kids as white fathers. He also fails to mention that Black fathers are roughly five times more likely to be incarcerated than White fathers, and that the incarcerated population isn't included in the CDC study. Half a million Black fathers behind bars, away from their children, that Blow absolves of responsibility with his column.
4
I feel this article is another rationalization of why blacks born in this country are not progressing. The Asians have surpassed the whites and every black Nigerian and Haitian I know holds a job and is married. Whitey can't be blamed for everything.
19
As in many American families, including mine as a White single mother, when the father is not present in the home, male relatives -- uncles and grandfathers -- often step in to fill the paternal role. Ted Kennedy filled this role for the children of his two slain brothers. Joe Biden will now do the same for Beau Biden's two children. Thousands of Black men are also doing the exact same thing.
7
Eurasian populations evolved into more of a pair-bonding instinctual way of life. The sense of personal relationship learned in marriage and family spreads out through society and makes civilization possible. Pair-bonding was weak in Africa and as a result no real civilization thrived. But slavery did thrive, and then some Europeans made the terrible mistake of "buying" into it, creating the racial mess we have today. It all comes back to marriage and family.
6
It would be interesting to find out why black fathers were the most involved with their children daily of any group of fathers. Is it possible that many of them are playing the stay at home dad role, due to lack of opportunities in the job market?
4
I'll bet all those single black moms are, along with Mr. Blow, really sad that they cannot cohabit with one of the (often violent) black males in prison. Once we empty the prisons of malefactors (or at least those who are black) and turn them loose on society, everything will be better.
6
I think Pope JPII was right when he said, "As the family goes, so goes the nation and so goes the whole world in which we live."
This is not a problem of race; it's about the loss of the family. When nearly 3/4 of children are born to unmarried parents, it effects more than the children--it effects the whole community. Our nation's future depends on these children born into "shotgun cohabitations," and we already know that children in these pseudo-families are more likely to dropout, be in prison, earn low wages, etc.
"Black dads are doing the best?" Really? Take off your race-tinted glasses, and call for ALL young men and women to hold on having children until they are married. Children thrive under stability, and "shotgun cohabitation" is anything but stable.
This is not a problem of race; it's about the loss of the family. When nearly 3/4 of children are born to unmarried parents, it effects more than the children--it effects the whole community. Our nation's future depends on these children born into "shotgun cohabitations," and we already know that children in these pseudo-families are more likely to dropout, be in prison, earn low wages, etc.
"Black dads are doing the best?" Really? Take off your race-tinted glasses, and call for ALL young men and women to hold on having children until they are married. Children thrive under stability, and "shotgun cohabitation" is anything but stable.
12
Mr Blow
I am not here to judgments on people I don't know. That takes up a tremendous amount of time and negative energy. Mr Blow, I can only deal with my reality. For 23 years I worked for California Department of Corrections and as such I dealt with countless black wards. But they were more than that. They were endless opportunities and challenges. The hardest thing was to earn their trust. I had to overcome racial stereotypes. I would try to find common ground. Sports, food, movies. It was a tedious process but paid big dividends
Once the trust was establshed I could begin the process of peeling the root cause of their anger. There was no easy answer. They build up this facade that masked insecurity, doubt, . But in most cases there was a deep seeded hurt and feeling of abandonment. I tried to teach them that other people cannot determine our value unless we let them. It was important to change their self talk. In many cases it was destructive
The biggest thing was getting them to the point where they could forgive. Until they cross that threshold notning changed. When they got to that point I focused on setting modest goals so they could see tangible results And it went from there
You can always paint in broad strokes My job wouldn't allow it
I am not here to judgments on people I don't know. That takes up a tremendous amount of time and negative energy. Mr Blow, I can only deal with my reality. For 23 years I worked for California Department of Corrections and as such I dealt with countless black wards. But they were more than that. They were endless opportunities and challenges. The hardest thing was to earn their trust. I had to overcome racial stereotypes. I would try to find common ground. Sports, food, movies. It was a tedious process but paid big dividends
Once the trust was establshed I could begin the process of peeling the root cause of their anger. There was no easy answer. They build up this facade that masked insecurity, doubt, . But in most cases there was a deep seeded hurt and feeling of abandonment. I tried to teach them that other people cannot determine our value unless we let them. It was important to change their self talk. In many cases it was destructive
The biggest thing was getting them to the point where they could forgive. Until they cross that threshold notning changed. When they got to that point I focused on setting modest goals so they could see tangible results And it went from there
You can always paint in broad strokes My job wouldn't allow it
7
The bulk of White America loves its mythology and is clearly comfortable in its hypocrisy, especially as it relates to its innocence with respect to the destruction of families of color in this country.
In a country that waves the flag of “family and family values,” America is without rival in destroying families in order to cultivate its existence. Beginning with the annihilation of the indigenous people of this land to the enslavement of Blacks, destroying families of color is at the heart of the American experience.
The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan stated in his controversial Moynihan Report - "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action," “That the Negro American has survived at all is extraordinary — a lesser people might simply have died out, as indeed others have.”
So despite deliberate efforts to destroy the Black family, both past and current, Black people in general and Black fathers specifically, continue to exist and be present in the lives of their children.
In a country that waves the flag of “family and family values,” America is without rival in destroying families in order to cultivate its existence. Beginning with the annihilation of the indigenous people of this land to the enslavement of Blacks, destroying families of color is at the heart of the American experience.
The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan stated in his controversial Moynihan Report - "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action," “That the Negro American has survived at all is extraordinary — a lesser people might simply have died out, as indeed others have.”
So despite deliberate efforts to destroy the Black family, both past and current, Black people in general and Black fathers specifically, continue to exist and be present in the lives of their children.
55
Hogwash, Mr. Blow, and wishful thinking. Keep your head in the sand!
32
How does Mr. Blow feel about the recent racist NYT editorial that echoed the Diblasio administration's racist spin that since the spike in the NYC violent crime rate is confined to blacks killing blacks in black neighborhoods that it's not as big of a deal as it otherwise would be?
13
I was a bit surprised at that too. The mask must have dropped for a minute.
Sure, we'll take their votes, and promise them free stuff. But that's it....
Sure, we'll take their votes, and promise them free stuff. But that's it....
An honest title for this column: "Black Dads (who live with their children) Are Doing Best of All". Using your own source, we can see that 20% of white men who have kids live apart from them, while 50% of black men who have kids live apart from them.
I agree with Mr. Blow that there is a damaging narrative about black fatherhood in this country, but if he wants to disarm that narrative, he has to grapple with the facts in an honest manner.
I agree with Mr. Blow that there is a damaging narrative about black fatherhood in this country, but if he wants to disarm that narrative, he has to grapple with the facts in an honest manner.
25
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men, sucking hundreds of thousands of marriage-age men out of the community." This statement, as repeated over and over in the media, is just unreal. As if "mass incarceration" was a thing, a person, an institution. Oh yeah, systemic racism! Another phrase I love. Why don't you tell it like it is? "Many, many young black men have committed crimes and have gone to jail".
30
Teresa,
Whites are slightly more likely to use marijuana, yet are imprisoned more than an order of magnitude less for the crime.
So let's rephrase your last statement: "Many, many, young people have committed non-violent crimes, but only the black ones have their lives destroyed for it".
Whites are slightly more likely to use marijuana, yet are imprisoned more than an order of magnitude less for the crime.
So let's rephrase your last statement: "Many, many, young people have committed non-violent crimes, but only the black ones have their lives destroyed for it".
1
"...black fathers were the most involved with their children daily." It doesn't seem to be helping.
15
After reading the comments, I felt strongly about saying :
1. Mr. Blow, Please don't "take a vacation", as one commenter suggested.
2. "serial impregnator" ? I think, "it takes two to tango".
3. I think many people don't understand the nuanced reasons to choose, consciously or not, to "have a baby".
4. My "Health Psychology" & "Social Psychology" courses taught me that very often, the reason to become pregnant is the desire for "someone" to love you, when one is in an environment where one perceives no one does.
1. Mr. Blow, Please don't "take a vacation", as one commenter suggested.
2. "serial impregnator" ? I think, "it takes two to tango".
3. I think many people don't understand the nuanced reasons to choose, consciously or not, to "have a baby".
4. My "Health Psychology" & "Social Psychology" courses taught me that very often, the reason to become pregnant is the desire for "someone" to love you, when one is in an environment where one perceives no one does.
7
"Some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time. This phenomenon means that a father can live with some but not all of his children."
And Blow's conclusion from this is__what? Calling this grossly irresponsible is wrong or even racist? Then trotting out cherry picked numbers to "prove" a dubious point?
As they say, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. But one undeniable truth is that Charles Blow's constant twisting of the facts does the black community no favors.
www.newyorkgritty.net
And Blow's conclusion from this is__what? Calling this grossly irresponsible is wrong or even racist? Then trotting out cherry picked numbers to "prove" a dubious point?
As they say, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. But one undeniable truth is that Charles Blow's constant twisting of the facts does the black community no favors.
www.newyorkgritty.net
26
Is the amount of time a parent may spend living in the same place as a child an adequate or legitimate measure of best parenting? Who is truly served by the claim that "Black Dads are doing Best of All" or any such interracial comparison? There will surely be good dads and not so good dads of every ethnicity, and, with Father's Day approaching, dads as individuals could each take the occasion to ask whether there are ways they - again, as individuals- could parent better. That practice might actually benefit kids.
6
I know lots of white parents who for a variety of reasons, never got around to tying the knot. Somehow, they usually manage to escape any major stigma.
5
The Time’s article about advertising catering to black culture neglected the NYT and Blow.
Last Wednesday the Toledo Ohio Zoo, and at The Children’s Museum of Cleveland the the weekend between Christmas and New Years, I saw one black adult male.
There were a good number of black moms and grand moms at Cleveland. But not enough to give the kids the one on one attention required to operate the exhibits which teach basic science principles.
Not the first time, Blow’s reference are suspect.
Last Wednesday the Toledo Ohio Zoo, and at The Children’s Museum of Cleveland the the weekend between Christmas and New Years, I saw one black adult male.
There were a good number of black moms and grand moms at Cleveland. But not enough to give the kids the one on one attention required to operate the exhibits which teach basic science principles.
Not the first time, Blow’s reference are suspect.
18
Mr. Blow has enlightened my understanding of why black dads don't do well in statistics, however, are involved in their children's lives. Some readers need to step back and re-read what he's saying. Yes, black couples aren't getting married as some deem appropriate, but look at the number of dads who are incarcerated. That statistic IS worrisome. Education is the key to changing these numbers. Young men (and women) need a skill or profession so they can support themselves and their families. Until voters and legislators agree to provide more funding for education, these stats will remain the same.
1
" Education is the key to changing these numbers."
And yet many blacks do not value education and attack those blacks who do for "acting white".
And yet many blacks do not value education and attack those blacks who do for "acting white".
It would be good if what Mr. Blow says is accurate. But when one sees black children, they're practically always accompanied by and being attended to by their mothers. Where are their fathers? It's rare to see a black dad out there in public, involved with his children. And I don't think countering with the mention of a few much-married white celebrities does much to support any argument.
7
We can probably all agree there are too many black men in prison. Calling this unfortunate phenomenon "mass incarceration" does not change the fact that these men committed crimes and were put in jail as a result. If you really want to make a difference and end this so called mass incarceration, I suggest you spend some quality time writing about the causes which includes a discussion of why these men made the choice to commit their crime in the first place. If we are to change this vicious cycle, we are going to need to look at two things: economic opportunity and personal responsibility. But it seems that no one wants to talk about these.
9
Interesting piece, Charles. While seemingly counter-intuitive, these findings make sense from my perspective and do not create the cognitive dissonance apparent in the comments posted here.
Life for many (not all!) black men in the U.S. is incredibly difficult and this research suggests that, for many, we are doing the best we can. As the book title says, "there is still a crisis" and no one denies that. But what hurts, down to my soul, even more than this recognized crisis - and opportunity IMHO - is the ease with which people, like said commentators, continually invalidate and disregard the reality of black men. It often seems that no matter what we do, it does not count nor does it matter. We do not know you but we don't care. It's easier that way.
Life for many (not all!) black men in the U.S. is incredibly difficult and this research suggests that, for many, we are doing the best we can. As the book title says, "there is still a crisis" and no one denies that. But what hurts, down to my soul, even more than this recognized crisis - and opportunity IMHO - is the ease with which people, like said commentators, continually invalidate and disregard the reality of black men. It often seems that no matter what we do, it does not count nor does it matter. We do not know you but we don't care. It's easier that way.
4
This is completely irrelevant. No one is suggesting those black dads who are involved in their children's lives are bad. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT!!
What the masses point to is that too many children are born without a father/dad who is a) married to mom b) involved in and caring for that child c) committed to the family unit.
For god sake Charles, please look at the data that is MEANINGFUL. The issue is a lack of character and moral values within the poorer (and often times minority) communities. We need family units and parental involvement, not serial impregnators. And we need women to recognize that the consequences of pregnancy are damaging to them and their offspring when they aren't in wedlock. This co-habitation unit is complete nonsense.
What the masses point to is that too many children are born without a father/dad who is a) married to mom b) involved in and caring for that child c) committed to the family unit.
For god sake Charles, please look at the data that is MEANINGFUL. The issue is a lack of character and moral values within the poorer (and often times minority) communities. We need family units and parental involvement, not serial impregnators. And we need women to recognize that the consequences of pregnancy are damaging to them and their offspring when they aren't in wedlock. This co-habitation unit is complete nonsense.
32
This is a good step, I think we can all Mr. Blow has entered the first first of grief, DENIAL. I expect his future columns to include anger, bargaining, depression and, finally, acceptance.
24
Blow is sticking his head in the sand. It doesn't matter how many white people cohabit. And it doesn't matter to Black children why dad went missing. If you're poor and struggling and the streets where you live are rough, mama can't keep you on the straight and narrow by herself. This is not about stats but the reality you can see for yourself by walking through the southside of Chicago or West Baltimore. Blow may be Black but he needs to get out more.
30
I always find it hard to automatically accept a bunch of statistics being thrown out to prove a point no matter who is presenting them. We all know that by citing selected statistics, a biased person can believe in their own mind that they have proven their point. Mr. Blow has a long history of being biased and feebly attempting to prove that everything and anything has racial undertones. That being said, if we assume that black dads are a “real” presence in the home for black children in underprivileged neighborhoods, then that is not only worse, it is shocking. This means that even with both parents to guide and raise black children, there are no positive influences in their lives to motivate them to stay out of trouble, pull themselves up and work hard to pursue success. I’m not suggesting it is easy, but what could be more important? I can’t imagine how I would have turned out without those positive motivating factors. So I ask – should we really be applauding the simple fact that black dads are doing best at being present in the family unit? If the black dads are not giving their children all the tools to be successful, then haven’t they, in reality, still abandoned their children?
My daughter teaches 8th grade math in inner city Charlotte and she can tell you most of the students in her school come from broken homes. That is a fact.
My daughter teaches 8th grade math in inner city Charlotte and she can tell you most of the students in her school come from broken homes. That is a fact.
30
You're whistling past a graveyard. That 72 percent figure is not "worrisome-" it's catastrophic. An underlying factor you never mention is that much the aid to people living in poverty is predicated on there being no other parent in the household, and that also perpetuates the pattern of missing fathers. The lack of jobs, of options, of any productive prospects for these fathers is what mires black children in cycles of poverty and destitution. Pumping sunshine in the face of this inevitable cycle of failure is no answer.
24
Not "best," but as well as any other man who is faithful and loving to his spouse and to his children. Fathers like that are to be cherished. The men in my family have been like that, always.
Stereotypes arise from the too-large minority of stupid, vicious black men who impregnate as many (equally stupid, feckless) women as they can, who in turn give birth to children who will grow up without parental guidance.
No doubt white people have their variation on this mode of living.
They're called trash.
They scorn education, prize their guns, beat up their women, and hate black people.
Here in Brooklyn, we're into a summer of more shootings and killings than we've seen in a while. A new generation of vicious, baby-making killers is upon us. They prize their guns, beat up their women, and hate white people.
Stereotypes arise from the too-large minority of stupid, vicious black men who impregnate as many (equally stupid, feckless) women as they can, who in turn give birth to children who will grow up without parental guidance.
No doubt white people have their variation on this mode of living.
They're called trash.
They scorn education, prize their guns, beat up their women, and hate black people.
Here in Brooklyn, we're into a summer of more shootings and killings than we've seen in a while. A new generation of vicious, baby-making killers is upon us. They prize their guns, beat up their women, and hate white people.
19
But in the case of white people, the vast majority of middle-class people who live decently have zero sympathy for the trash. There is no solidarity on the ground of racial identity. If the police arrest the low-lifes or beat them up, that's fine.
2
If paternal irresponsibility were genetic, African men would abandon their children as African Americans do. I have never heard of this behavior characteristic being present in West African men. One thing we learned during the Ebola epidemic was the cohesiveness of their families.
9
They don't have any welfare systems in those countries. Single mothers with children simply cannot survive. Therefore, there are no single-mother families there.
2
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men, sucking hundreds of thousands of marriage-age men out of the community."
While our archaic laws (e.g., miniscule amount of drug possession in NYC, for example) are at times to blame for arrest and prosecution of young black males, it's equally undeniable that back males are also involved in serious and violent crimes, often perpetrated by blacks upon blacks, and gang warfare. Leaving aside the issue of "serial impregnation" and shirking child-support duty, whatever happened to taking personal responsibility for one's actions and be a law-abiding citizen? Why is it that the current crop of prominent black leaders -- Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind -- never ever say to the community, "Yes, there's no denying there is racism and inequality, but you must demonstrate and demand through your behavior and actions that you are to be judged by the content of your character, not the color of your skin?" Blaming everyone else in society for the ills suffered by young black males for their acts of commission and omission -- whether as father or citizens -- is the worst you can do to keep perpetuating the stereotype of black male irresponsibility. BTW, I'm not Caucasian but South Asian, so I have no axe to grind.
While our archaic laws (e.g., miniscule amount of drug possession in NYC, for example) are at times to blame for arrest and prosecution of young black males, it's equally undeniable that back males are also involved in serious and violent crimes, often perpetrated by blacks upon blacks, and gang warfare. Leaving aside the issue of "serial impregnation" and shirking child-support duty, whatever happened to taking personal responsibility for one's actions and be a law-abiding citizen? Why is it that the current crop of prominent black leaders -- Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind -- never ever say to the community, "Yes, there's no denying there is racism and inequality, but you must demonstrate and demand through your behavior and actions that you are to be judged by the content of your character, not the color of your skin?" Blaming everyone else in society for the ills suffered by young black males for their acts of commission and omission -- whether as father or citizens -- is the worst you can do to keep perpetuating the stereotype of black male irresponsibility. BTW, I'm not Caucasian but South Asian, so I have no axe to grind.
11
You need to get out of your office and get on the streets. There you will see moms and babies, but hardly a father in sight. The first step in solving a problem is to acknowledge that there is a problem. Verbal gymnastics does not change reality, it just delays dealing with it.
15
Here in Oakland, it is also the case that young black men are more likely to go to schools with less resources, less likely to get the skills needed to go on further in school or to obtain gainful employment.
How are they supposed to take care of themselves, let alone families, if they are thus marginalized from birth?
In spite of roadblocks set up here, I know many young black men who finish school, find 3 to 4 jobs to make ends meet, take care of their children, and warily keep their eyes moving to see who's in the periphery trying to trip them up.
Many young black fathers I know also hustle with their entrepreneurial skills to set up businesses. They teach their children how to be proud of their skills and how to look for ways to overcome obstacles toward their vision.
Being a grandmother who is white with mixed race grandchildren, I have seen first-hand dads who would make any child proud. What I am NOT proud of is the institutionalized racism that tries to blame the victims.
How are they supposed to take care of themselves, let alone families, if they are thus marginalized from birth?
In spite of roadblocks set up here, I know many young black men who finish school, find 3 to 4 jobs to make ends meet, take care of their children, and warily keep their eyes moving to see who's in the periphery trying to trip them up.
Many young black fathers I know also hustle with their entrepreneurial skills to set up businesses. They teach their children how to be proud of their skills and how to look for ways to overcome obstacles toward their vision.
Being a grandmother who is white with mixed race grandchildren, I have seen first-hand dads who would make any child proud. What I am NOT proud of is the institutionalized racism that tries to blame the victims.
5
I am waiting for Mr. Blow's column dealing explaining the reason for the rise in serious crimes in Baltimore following the police pull back in enforcement after Freddie Gray's death.
JD
JD
11
So all we have to do is subsidies black fathers to spend a 100% of the time with child-rearing and we won't have skewed machismo on the streets .
Lol!
Lol!
4
This is an amazing article in that it should be used in statistics classes how statistics can be spliced to give an incredibly misleading impression. Mr. Blow - I am embarrassed by your intentional misreading of these stats. The splicing of the stats is intended to mislead by minimizing the power of the "absent father" cohort and attempting to suggest the cohorts are equal. Essentially, what your saying is that when black fathers care for their children, they do so quite well. But by splicing the stats, you have chosen stats that intentionally hide the impact of the higher rates of absentee fathers in general.
15
Mr. Blow seems to be more interested in saving face. The statistics are correct, but the focus should be more on the effects on abandoned women and children. I know a man who takes care of one of his children, but he has 8 others who do not live with him, and some are in other states. This issue affects middle class black people as well, as black women in all classes are competing for dwindling numbers of their counterparts. All it takes are men who are prolific in spreading their seed to cause a whole lot of hurt. These men may be small in number or percentages, but their impact is huge.
I advise single black straight women to expand their choices, as the number imbalance is a reality, and a compatible mate may come in another color.
I advise single black straight women to expand their choices, as the number imbalance is a reality, and a compatible mate may come in another color.
9
Eventually the movement to help 'black' Americans will move towards helping all Americans 'in need'. Poverty is the great monster (allied with global environmental degradation). Black Americans with money are doing just fine; much better than poor whites and all the other 'colors' we choose to call each other (though actually, I've never seen anyone 'black' or 'white'; they're usually some form of 'brown', if I have to give them a color).
Martin Luther King was discredited, followed, taped, targeted and eventually killed because he saw poverty as the problem; not race. Tax the richest, including a wealth tax, to help us generate a more perfect union. Banish the billionaires to another era; we have no room for them socially, culturally or economically. Love one another; that's doing the 'best of all'.
Martin Luther King was discredited, followed, taped, targeted and eventually killed because he saw poverty as the problem; not race. Tax the richest, including a wealth tax, to help us generate a more perfect union. Banish the billionaires to another era; we have no room for them socially, culturally or economically. Love one another; that's doing the 'best of all'.
5
Not one comment I've read attempts to find a solution to the problems at hand. Not one! That problem is, if children are raised in a one parent household, that child is far less likely to flourish. Therein is the problem. Neither side, R's or D's, propose any programs that indicate there is statistical proof that their methods are superior to the ideas presented by the other. It's no wonder that both sides refuse to cave to the other. If consistency is the bugaboo of small minds, both sides have clearly demonstrated their consistencies.
There is an reason for this, however. History tells us which side started the slide into this mess. That side of the argument rejects history in favor of current outward appearances and economic circumstances. It is entrenched racism that perpetuates the status quo, leaving both sides in limbo.
You can claim you're not a racist all you like, but if you believe your race's level of achievement is somehow superior, and that history didn't relegate other races into a hole so deep it's virtually impossible to be extricated, then the only other possible reason for the existing protracted racial divide is that your beliefs are racist. That is racism by definition.
There is an reason for this, however. History tells us which side started the slide into this mess. That side of the argument rejects history in favor of current outward appearances and economic circumstances. It is entrenched racism that perpetuates the status quo, leaving both sides in limbo.
You can claim you're not a racist all you like, but if you believe your race's level of achievement is somehow superior, and that history didn't relegate other races into a hole so deep it's virtually impossible to be extricated, then the only other possible reason for the existing protracted racial divide is that your beliefs are racist. That is racism by definition.
3
Children born into one-parent households are less likely to flourish because those households are often POOR. The problem is poverty and the transitional nature of many relationships when finding money to live on is difficult. This is true for poor whites as well as poor blacks. Single-parent households that are middle to upper class do not have these problems and the children often flourish. It is correlation, not cause. The problem in this country is POVERTY.
1
Excuse me. My great-grandfather came to this country to escape the Russian pogroms. He came with the clothes on his back and little else. He became a peddler, raised a nuclear family, and worked his way into the middle class.
Slavery and Jim Crow is our "original sin," and caused untold damage to the African-American social structure and psyche. At some point, however, human initiative comes into play. While we humans are products of our circumstances, we also have the God-given ability to bend reality to our will, by attempting to change our circumstances. You simply can't tell me that what happened 70 years ago compels a young black man to join a gang.
Slavery and Jim Crow is our "original sin," and caused untold damage to the African-American social structure and psyche. At some point, however, human initiative comes into play. While we humans are products of our circumstances, we also have the God-given ability to bend reality to our will, by attempting to change our circumstances. You simply can't tell me that what happened 70 years ago compels a young black man to join a gang.
1
The comments to Mr Blow's columns are a showcase of the white psychology that perpetuates second class citizenship for African-Americans.
I am a white American. Growing up white in the US means constantly having your ego fed by invidious comparisons with "defective" African-Americans.
It is stunning to see how many presumably white commenters respond to Mr Blow by reflexively resurrecting the image of the defective, inferior black American.
Most of these people are what I call "if onlies," as in, they'll accept black Americans as equals "if only" they stop killing each other or stop having babies out of wedlock, etc. "If onlies" don't think of themselves as racist.
I am a white American. Growing up white in the US means constantly having your ego fed by invidious comparisons with "defective" African-Americans.
It is stunning to see how many presumably white commenters respond to Mr Blow by reflexively resurrecting the image of the defective, inferior black American.
Most of these people are what I call "if onlies," as in, they'll accept black Americans as equals "if only" they stop killing each other or stop having babies out of wedlock, etc. "If onlies" don't think of themselves as racist.
6
Not so much stunning as stomach-turning is the enduring culture of pseudo-humanist narcissists who exploit the complex tragedy of African-American life in order to tell themselves how much they care, and how awful other people are. With not a suggestion or solution in sight.
2
There is a pathology to having children out of wedlock as a societal norm.
Poverty rates of groups which do not place marriage before family are high. There is no getting around the idea that marriage is primary to the health and well being all society. Marriage should always come before children and when it doesn't, we have people like Blow who try to spin their way around it. Nice try but you are 100% wrong.
Poverty rates of groups which do not place marriage before family are high. There is no getting around the idea that marriage is primary to the health and well being all society. Marriage should always come before children and when it doesn't, we have people like Blow who try to spin their way around it. Nice try but you are 100% wrong.
10
Mr. Blow's fault is in not making more comparisons with poor whites, where you will find that serial cohabitation and out of wedlock pregnancy are pretty close to a norm these days. But in the U.S., we still use race and racist thinking as a way of deflecting attention from class and the factors in our system that drive inequality. Cohabitation has been on the rise for some time. People can't afford to get married on falling wages. A lot of people refer to their cohabiting partners as fiance or fiancee, which shows some lip service to the idea that marriage is a possibility in an uncertain future.
America's particularly toxic combination of racism, sexism, sexual puritanism, and "constitutional" self-righteousness -- all on display in today's comments -- makes it impossible for us to have serious public conversations about sexuality, family stability, and economic policy. At least Mr. Blow is trying to show us another part of American reality. He could have done it better, perhaps, but he has my thanks.
America's particularly toxic combination of racism, sexism, sexual puritanism, and "constitutional" self-righteousness -- all on display in today's comments -- makes it impossible for us to have serious public conversations about sexuality, family stability, and economic policy. At least Mr. Blow is trying to show us another part of American reality. He could have done it better, perhaps, but he has my thanks.
2
No matter what statistical report you quote, the family made up of two parents is the basic building block of human society - and the most successful.
4
There are a multitude of decent Americans, who not only are unmoved by the fact that 40% of black children are living in poverty, but use that fact to buttress their own convictions about black inferiority. Is it reasonable for an ordinary citizen to consider that blacks should constitute 49% of America's prison population?
Cory A. Booker, the black mayor of Newark, NJ calls on the ordinary citizen to consider the economic reality that, in fact, “Yale is cheaper than jail.” The acute problem of wealth disparity is the effect of unequal access to the American economic opportunity structure.
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2014/04/equal-access-to-america...
Cory A. Booker, the black mayor of Newark, NJ calls on the ordinary citizen to consider the economic reality that, in fact, “Yale is cheaper than jail.” The acute problem of wealth disparity is the effect of unequal access to the American economic opportunity structure.
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2014/04/equal-access-to-america...
4
Head in the sand as usual, Blow ignores the elephant in the room. Excuses and accusations or racism and stereotyping do not excuse a deep seeded culture of irresponsibility.
15
Hey Charles...you can really spin it baby!!
Time to wake up...even Harvard, that bastion of conservative thought, says that family structure is the single greatest predictor of success or failure in a kid's life...
http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/images/mobility_geo.pdf
Time to wake up...even Harvard, that bastion of conservative thought, says that family structure is the single greatest predictor of success or failure in a kid's life...
http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/images/mobility_geo.pdf
13
Mr. Blow has missed his true calling, that of being a comedian. "black dads are doing best of all" what a classic punch line. I suggest that if Black Dads are doing so well, Black families are also doing well as evidenced by the Straight A Michael Brown wannabes marching in the "peaceful" protests of Ferguson and Baltimore. Does Mr. Blow imply that we can declare the War on Poverty Over and save the Trillions of dollars flushed dow the toilet supporting these "best dads and their families".
What a hoot you are Mr. Blow. Is your next joke about entering the country illegally is not a crime but a rite of passage for the "best Hispanic dads"?
What a hoot you are Mr. Blow. Is your next joke about entering the country illegally is not a crime but a rite of passage for the "best Hispanic dads"?
13
There are liars and then there is the media and the articles they print; particularly the NYT. As Mark Twain would say "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." Mr. Blow (fitting name as in Blow-Hard) has obviously worked very hard in an effort to portray black fatherhood other than it truly is. Nice try
13
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men, sucking hundreds of thousands of marriage-age men out of the community."
Sigh.
When will Mr. Blow deal honestly with the real issue; the disproportionate crime rates for black males? "Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men..." makes it seem so passive, as in 'why do all these things just keep happening to young black males?' Why indeed?
Dial back policing and arrests in Baltimore and what happens? Fewer arrests and incarceration for sure. But also dramatic increases in violence. But then the problem is police 'not doing their jobs'. Sorry Charles, you can't have it both ways.
Sigh.
When will Mr. Blow deal honestly with the real issue; the disproportionate crime rates for black males? "Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men..." makes it seem so passive, as in 'why do all these things just keep happening to young black males?' Why indeed?
Dial back policing and arrests in Baltimore and what happens? Fewer arrests and incarceration for sure. But also dramatic increases in violence. But then the problem is police 'not doing their jobs'. Sorry Charles, you can't have it both ways.
16
About the often cited in this article Dec/2013 CDC report, which states that black fathers were the most involved with their children daily. There was no specific information about its project-ability to the universe of black males who are fathers. Was the study conducted in-person, online, phone? Where all targets in the sampling frame effectively reached? Did the study account or acknowledge those who were not reached for any reason (incapable to respond to a survey online, refusals, unavailable for external reasons, etc.).
The report itself acknowledges: "This report is mainly limited to the data collected from the sample of 3,928 men who are fathers."
More details please and no hiding or burying in tiny fonts some stats that may be telling of a deeper story. I can then judge appropriately Mr. Blow's claims.
The report itself acknowledges: "This report is mainly limited to the data collected from the sample of 3,928 men who are fathers."
More details please and no hiding or burying in tiny fonts some stats that may be telling of a deeper story. I can then judge appropriately Mr. Blow's claims.
3
Then I guess we don't need government programs or affirmative action to help black people, right?
14
Mr. Blow there are certainly some exemplary black fathers. However to imply that if the fathers were not incarcerated the lives of the black children and mothers would improve. Do you really think felons in a home create good citizens? It seems that there is some kind of macho kick at impregnating serial woman. Perhaps they could visit each family they fathered weekly or monthly. Incidently you provide no statistics as to how many of these "fathers" are financially supporting their offspring. Apologists like you keep the bar extremely low and threfore the desperate conditions the children and women endure continues. There can be no respect for men who do not support their families regardless of race. This article puts lipstick on a pig.
18
The truth Mr. Blow is that far too many black men serve as sperm donors and not fathers.
Before you can fix a problem you have to admit it exists.
But this newest spin into an alternative universe should land you a spot on the NY Times editorial board any day now.
Before you can fix a problem you have to admit it exists.
But this newest spin into an alternative universe should land you a spot on the NY Times editorial board any day now.
19
I am encouraged by the number of responses to all the Blow pieces that more NYT readers will get to sort through the racially supremacist beliefs espoused by fellow NYT subscribers who paint all black males as wholly criminal, irresponsible and neglectful. It's amazing to finally see highly educated American people disclose their deep racial fears and insecurities for the world to observe. Hopefully, one day we will move beyond trying to change the intransigent thought processes of fearful people and make real structural changes to address the policy designed poverty that plagues both poor rural whites and poor urban blacks.
3
I agree with many commentators that the notion of quantifying and qualifying “best fathers,” along racial lines is a somewhat dubious exercise. However, many comments do reflect a lack of understanding of the black family in past and present. I grew up in a neighborhood in Queens in the sixties and seventies, I have no hard data, but out of the dozens of black families that I associated with, none were without both mother and father, zero. Fast forward to today, out of the scores of black families that I am friendly with, not one is without both mother and father. Yes they are mainly middle, upper middle and wealthy families, but that should speak volumes as to real causes of dysfunction certainly having nothing to do with race.
To those who stubbornly and irrationally hold to the notion that all of the woes of the black family and community lie within I would suggest better research. To those of you whom wish to silence these topics, your discomfort and distaste are telling. To those who believe that law enforcement is meted out evenly to all, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
To those who stubbornly and irrationally hold to the notion that all of the woes of the black family and community lie within I would suggest better research. To those of you whom wish to silence these topics, your discomfort and distaste are telling. To those who believe that law enforcement is meted out evenly to all, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
51
Black men were black children first. What do they think of this. Having had an excellent relationship with a black female employee from the Caribbean I learned that their social structure was very different than ours. Not better or worse but different. I think its a tragedy that so many black men are incarcerated. That is something we need to deal with now but lets not put our social mores on all people.
1
The statistics in this article seem to me to say that black men don't live with the mothers of their children (and I am willing to ignore whether that relationship includes marriage or not) in far greater proportions than is the case with other racial groups. When the group that DOES live with the mothers of their children are examined, they are slightly more involved with their children than non- blacks, and within the group that do NOT live with the mothers of their children, they are slightly more involved with their children than non- blacks - and that's great, and important to realize. But ALL fathers who don't live with the mothers of their children are MUCH MUCH less involved with their children than those who DO live in, and so the first statistic quoted overwhelms the "good news" within the two groups.
6
For his next column on this subject, I wish that Mr. Blow would ask adolescent black children how much they are involved with their fathers and whether they think of their fathers as good role models to emulate in the future.
11
What Mr. blow fails to address is how many of these black unmarried women are on welfare, and hoe it is in their best interest to have multiple births increasing their monthly welfare payments and other social welfare benefits
14
And, they all drive Cadillacs, don't forget! This old chestnut has been around so long its grandchildren are lying now.
Can you really believe that anyone wold think that the increased
payments for an extra child actually pay for that child's expenses?
Your bigotry shows through your statement.
payments for an extra child actually pay for that child's expenses?
Your bigotry shows through your statement.
One wonders about any family dynamic any more. The couple next door to me Black and have lived there one more year than my wife and I, 37 years. One daughter gt pregnant and dropped out in her third year of college. She's been married for almost 20 years now to a career Army man who was in data communications who is now retired and has a great second career going. The other daughter had her first two daughters by two men who wee killed in drive by shootings. She two more form the man she is now married to and is doing well. The parents were hard working people. He is still self employed in another business he started, she at last retired from the packaging line of a box manufacturer. With two such examples the girls should have not had to go through what they did. I think the example is what brought them back to normal lives.
How then will children born to single women where the father has children by multiple girl friends and doesn't provide support or care fare with no good examples to copy if these girls had them and still fell?
How then will children born to single women where the father has children by multiple girl friends and doesn't provide support or care fare with no good examples to copy if these girls had them and still fell?
5
This looks like good news, but my question is: do we assume that black men will only have children with black women, and vice versa?
1
From what I have read, black women have the lowest rate of interracial marriage while asian women have the highest rate.
Reader comments rarely surprise me these days but I am taken aback by the string of racism-denying defensive and accusatory responses to this very important column -- they only affirm Mr. Blow's point. Yes, sometimes "crimes were committed" but it is well-documented that blacks receive harsher punishments for the same crimes committed by others. The "pathology" of the black family is a favorite target for those who seek to blame the victim. On that topic, Carol Stack's 1974 "All Our Kin: Strategies for Survival in a Black Community" remains a powerful rebuttal to those who look at black families and see nothing but irresponsibility, disorder, and disarray.
10
If only all those incarcerated black men were back in the community things would be better. What? Does Mr.Blow believe his own writings or is he just the black version of ''Baghdad Bob''
17
Wouldn't there be more crime?
According this paradigm, all incarcerated black men are completely innocent of wrongdoing -- none are violent criminals, murderers, drug dealers or rapists -- the only thing a black man is EVER incarcerated for is casual use of marijuana.
Ergo, every black man in prison should be immediately pardoned and sent home, where they will ALL become exemplary live-in fathers to their illegitimate children.
Ergo, every black man in prison should be immediately pardoned and sent home, where they will ALL become exemplary live-in fathers to their illegitimate children.
2
So, the point of the article is to say black men would be better fathers if they weren't in jail? No kidding..
21
"Second, some of these men have children by more than one woman, but they can only live in one home at a time."
Responsible men avoid this problem by having children with only woman, their wife.
Responsible men avoid this problem by having children with only woman, their wife.
38
I wonder if Mr. Blow really realizes just how damning that sentence really is.
2
As a black man who never knew my father,I am married and have a son. still on my first marriage and my first child. Didn't get married till I was thirty and had my son when I was 32. I made sure I was financially stable and to able to provide for my wife and child. Being a serial impregnator cuts across all races. I had a white roommate in the Army who had gotten 10 different women pregnant in Germany. He eventually claimed one of them and took her back the states. I asked him at the time why and he said,"why not?"
24
As an African-American Male of a certain generation (Late Boomer), I remember my parents (born in the Depression-era South) telling my brothers and me that the minimum threshold for considering yourself to be "middle-class" was to finish college and not to have a child out-of-wedlock. As a young, single male, I also remember the surprise of SOME Black women that I didn't have a child "on the side." The Black women who expected a prospective mate to be child-less were the ones raised with the same expectations that I was.
29
The prevalence of black children who are born out of wedlock should not be regarded as a problem insofar as the rest of American society is concerned. In fact, it's essentially none of our business. The real problem is the number of children born out of wedlock whose parents are unable- or unwilling-to support them without relying on government subsidies. In which case it does become our business.
14
I certainly agree that incarceration for minor drug offenses needs to change. There are some strange statistics in this article, however. Unmarried blacks have children more quickly he states, as if this is a rational explanation for the 72 percent statistic. It seems to me this is a problem. You quickly have kids, you are more likely to find yourself with a problem. The same with multiple partners. Sure, you can't live with two, separate families at the same time. Then, why did you do it? In our neck of the woods, Adrien Peterson is often in the news. Lots of money, as far as people know, kids by seven different partners. Apologists say, he can afford to take care of the kids. Money isn't the only thing, time spent counts. Let's change the drug laws. It is going to take a lot more than that. Charles, the apologist's, use of tainted statistics will not change that conclusion.
7
OK Charles... If 6% of the population committing a majority of violent crimes in this country looks like good parenting to you then I guess it's your right to view it that way, but until these numbers change the rest of its will continue to question this premise.
16
The notion that white men are better fathers than black men is insidious nonsense. Statistics don't measure fatherly love.
3
White dads spend all our time and money on our kids, drive heaps to save money, and save for college. Check the percentage of Black HS students that get to college.
No one said that white men are better fathers than black men. The only people making egregiously overbroad statements about race here are the people who say they're trying to combat egregiously overbroad statements about race.
Bravo, Blow has mined the data and found "excuses" for some of Black America systemic failures. Black dad's can't be blamed for their negligence, they are in prison . . . it's not their fault, you see.
Next will be the justification for obesity in the poor Black community. Not their fault . . . these poor people are eating expensive fast food.
Actually, there aren't any of these problems to any large extent in the middle and upper class Black community, the problems are planted firmly in the soil of poor black America. Soil tended to and nourished by the Liberal Progressive excuse maker.
Blow - gardener extradonare.
Next will be the justification for obesity in the poor Black community. Not their fault . . . these poor people are eating expensive fast food.
Actually, there aren't any of these problems to any large extent in the middle and upper class Black community, the problems are planted firmly in the soil of poor black America. Soil tended to and nourished by the Liberal Progressive excuse maker.
Blow - gardener extradonare.
20
Interesting. I have always been told that statistics can lie. The studies can be set up so to present a situation in a favorable or a less than favorable manner.
IF as he says black me are indeed at home with their children (or some of their children) why is it that POTUS wants to "help" black men.
Those men that are in jail are probably not and never will be ideal stay at home fathers. I mean, what are they in jail for? They must have committed some crime and it probably isn't white collar crime.
And the one that truly is fascinating is that birth rates among unmarried black women are "disproportionately represented in the statistics". I don't even understand what this means.
I guess authors will print anything.
Thanks so much for this enlightened article.
All black men, are better parents than their white counterpart and that's why their children grow up to be troubled kids. Oh no, I forgot it's society that make black kids troubled. Please forgive me.
The problem will never be resolved as long as people are blind to some of the causes. Or are you saying now that there is no problem with boys in the African American community? That would be great. POTUS can stop his campaign of improving the lives of young black men.
IF as he says black me are indeed at home with their children (or some of their children) why is it that POTUS wants to "help" black men.
Those men that are in jail are probably not and never will be ideal stay at home fathers. I mean, what are they in jail for? They must have committed some crime and it probably isn't white collar crime.
And the one that truly is fascinating is that birth rates among unmarried black women are "disproportionately represented in the statistics". I don't even understand what this means.
I guess authors will print anything.
Thanks so much for this enlightened article.
All black men, are better parents than their white counterpart and that's why their children grow up to be troubled kids. Oh no, I forgot it's society that make black kids troubled. Please forgive me.
The problem will never be resolved as long as people are blind to some of the causes. Or are you saying now that there is no problem with boys in the African American community? That would be great. POTUS can stop his campaign of improving the lives of young black men.
15
I'm surprised that so few people have caught on to the real message behind the mythology of "if only more black children had fathers" and "too many families headed by women [sic]" It's SEXISM, i.e., if there are problems in a community, it's because women are in charge. Although it's true that missing men means missing income and poverty affects children greatly, there are complex reasons for social disarray and absent men aren't even the main factor.
2
I disagree with your interpretation of the message - the problem is not that women are in charge, the problem is that it is easier to raise children when two parents are involved than it is when only one is, be that one male or female.
1
This column seems like a salad of stats designed to disprove the obvious: that low income black men are not involved with the upbringing of their children at rates necessary to break the never ending cycle of poverty, poor education, crime and prison. Low income black children are born with two strikes. An absent dad is strike three.
30
The truth be said: excellent information, Charles!
Now, we all know that this is not something an elitist wants to read. Some are probably on another article about half way through this one.
Distinctions that make a difference are getting rare in today's journalism, most of it is so negative that one has to wonder if attitude has replaced facts as a basis for hater attitude in America. And we call ourselves an educated country.
Elistists, who do have great academic credentials in math, somehow missed this one. Why? They don't care, and it is not in their interests. The only facts they read is in the stock market -- shame.
Now, we all know that this is not something an elitist wants to read. Some are probably on another article about half way through this one.
Distinctions that make a difference are getting rare in today's journalism, most of it is so negative that one has to wonder if attitude has replaced facts as a basis for hater attitude in America. And we call ourselves an educated country.
Elistists, who do have great academic credentials in math, somehow missed this one. Why? They don't care, and it is not in their interests. The only facts they read is in the stock market -- shame.
2
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men..."
You make it sound like a plot from an M Night Shyamalan movie - these incarcerated folks are criminals - indeed - in their 20's over 32% of young black men are either on parole - awaiting trial or in jail.
The first job of a father is being a role model for his kids and most importantly for his sons - you can't be a role model in jail - if not a father then an uncle - a sibling - a close friend. Indeed - a young man growing up with relativesand friends in jail believes that is a societal norm - a rite of passage to become a 'man'
The ethos of criminal thuggishness is what needs to be addressed. Responsible parenthood will follow. The first step is admitting that something is broken - not doing the never-ending Charles-Obfuscation-Dance.
You make it sound like a plot from an M Night Shyamalan movie - these incarcerated folks are criminals - indeed - in their 20's over 32% of young black men are either on parole - awaiting trial or in jail.
The first job of a father is being a role model for his kids and most importantly for his sons - you can't be a role model in jail - if not a father then an uncle - a sibling - a close friend. Indeed - a young man growing up with relativesand friends in jail believes that is a societal norm - a rite of passage to become a 'man'
The ethos of criminal thuggishness is what needs to be addressed. Responsible parenthood will follow. The first step is admitting that something is broken - not doing the never-ending Charles-Obfuscation-Dance.
37
I think the plot part of it is insisting that a young black man selling pot on a street corner is, in your words, a criminal, but a young when man selling pot on campus is just a young person doing what many young people do.
The era of mass incarceration of young black men began with the ramping up of the war on drugs. Yet something like a majority of young Americans have used pot and other illegal drugs, which means they've also committed the same crimes that you are so quick to insist makes black men criminals. Yet I've never heard anyone insist that everyone white who has ever used or sold drugs is a criminal who should be locked up. Wonder why that is.
The era of mass incarceration of young black men began with the ramping up of the war on drugs. Yet something like a majority of young Americans have used pot and other illegal drugs, which means they've also committed the same crimes that you are so quick to insist makes black men criminals. Yet I've never heard anyone insist that everyone white who has ever used or sold drugs is a criminal who should be locked up. Wonder why that is.
1
Is this bad: my kids went to an urban school that was mostly black. On occasion, baby showers were held for 15-year old and older expecting mothers. Cupcakes were served, the pregnant teen was treated like a princess. With the faculty's somewhat awkward support, these parties were like the classroom birthday parties of yore. My kids (and others I'm sure) thought it was weird, but everyone went along with it. Nobody knew or asked who the father was. When statistically, the mother and her kid are doomed, how did this become not only accepted, but celebrated? Was Moynihan right?
69
Back in my school days (the 50's) girls who found themselves in this position went to visit their "aunt" for a few months. When they returned it wasn't (openly) discussed. The baby had been put up for adoption. Today we have, in our local schools, something similar to what you described. I asked a student about this once, her reply was "It's no big deal". Oh?
5
Mythology? The stats don't lie. You missed the key stat, that being that 82% of black fathers do not live with their children under the age of 18, married or not. If a father is not living in the household, real involvement is non existent. The solution: all races, do not have children you cannot emotional and financially support. It is that simple. For if you do so you are fully engaged in child abuse.
45
Where do you see this stat? The article said that 2.7 million black dads live with their kids and 1.5 million don't. How did you go from that to conclude that 82% don't live with their kids?
more spin...
mr blow should heed his own concern about the "worrisome" statistic..."it exists in a social context" that practically guarantees its stasis...the context, the ghetto of the body and mind that limits opportunity and hope, a vestige of slavery,
needs to be changed...no amount of statistical evidence or "corrosive mythology" will get us closer to grasping and solving the problems of, whatever the numbers tell us they are...the miracle is that there are so many individuals within this hostile context, who have the talents and the will to exemplify and lead change.
instead of the invitation to continued inaction practically guaranteed by the so-called "conversation" it's time to show up and empower those who can change things from within...give them the resources, an army of public works muscle and brain, to develop their communities from education to infrastructure...perhaps if we re-conceive the problems of the "social context" as flaws in our shared social fabric instead of seeing them as alien outposts, interest in alleviation of stress and repair of neighborhoods may emerge from the endless media "conversation" and get into the street.
mr blow should heed his own concern about the "worrisome" statistic..."it exists in a social context" that practically guarantees its stasis...the context, the ghetto of the body and mind that limits opportunity and hope, a vestige of slavery,
needs to be changed...no amount of statistical evidence or "corrosive mythology" will get us closer to grasping and solving the problems of, whatever the numbers tell us they are...the miracle is that there are so many individuals within this hostile context, who have the talents and the will to exemplify and lead change.
instead of the invitation to continued inaction practically guaranteed by the so-called "conversation" it's time to show up and empower those who can change things from within...give them the resources, an army of public works muscle and brain, to develop their communities from education to infrastructure...perhaps if we re-conceive the problems of the "social context" as flaws in our shared social fabric instead of seeing them as alien outposts, interest in alleviation of stress and repair of neighborhoods may emerge from the endless media "conversation" and get into the street.
3
Charles, it is misleading to set up a false premise limited to single factors such as marital rates and then attempt to draw conclusions. A relevant theory would have been: Simply put, marital rates for blacks and whites have been declining; but substantial evidence over the past 40 years shows that black families where the parents are married are more prosperous, stable and less prone to criminal conduct.
6
I guessed I missed the point of this article. Black men are good? OK, if you say so, but the statistics used seem to belie the point. There is a lot of dysfunction, too, and without discussing how AFDC works, we really have no clue as to whether the families are well functioning or not from this article, when we have plenty of evidence to show that they are not, especially in those communities where there is a condensation of poverty and the population is coincidentally or not black. However, according to this article, everything is fine, so I guess we can all move on now.
10
I reject Mr. Blow's accusation that those who dare mention this problem seek to "bludgeon" black people. He is resorting to the same tactic that in 1965 was used against Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who warned of the burgeoning problem. This is a serious issue of national importance. It should be discussed openly and honestly. Mr. Blow's column is an effort to muzzle it.
33
I have never read such a ridiculous justification for poor behavior. This was a real stretch! I personally know several black men who are fathers of several children who brag about the haul they make on "Mothers Day"--the day the welfare money comes in. They demand,and get, the money intended for their illigetimate children. The women bear much of the blame. They do not respect their own bodies, and until you make them realize the are more than sperm repositories, there will continue to be generations of parent less kids that are growing up with no moral values. NYT, you are better than this drivel.
28
One really sad fact, not explored here -- a huge cut of all welfare payments to unmarried women with children, ends up going NOT to the child or even the mother (as intended) but to....mom's current boyfriend.
Poor men know very well the amounts going out to welfare moms, and it makes them very desirable -- they may be the only people in the poor areas who have a guaranteed, steady income. Furthermore, it is padded out with those huge EITC checks (up to $6000 and more in April!) and bumps like the checks they get for school clothing in the fall. Believe me, every jerk knows when those checks come out and finds himself a "sugar mama" just in time to cash in.
The women (often girls themselves) are naive and lonely. It can seem like an effective way to "get" a man....then shortly, you find yourself pregnant AGAIN, thinking he is here to stay but the man is gone as soon as the money is spent. And on to a new "victim".
It is nearly impossible to measure this. How do you measure how much of those food stamps are going to feed a 200 lb adult man, vs. a 6 year old child? It all goes into one supermarket cart! And people know this, so they exploit the system.
Ask yourself why children require a free lunch or breakfast at school -- when they ALREADY GET $150 a month each in food stamps? as much as an adult man? it isn't enough to buy a box of cereal, gallon of milk or jar of peanut butter?
Poor men know very well the amounts going out to welfare moms, and it makes them very desirable -- they may be the only people in the poor areas who have a guaranteed, steady income. Furthermore, it is padded out with those huge EITC checks (up to $6000 and more in April!) and bumps like the checks they get for school clothing in the fall. Believe me, every jerk knows when those checks come out and finds himself a "sugar mama" just in time to cash in.
The women (often girls themselves) are naive and lonely. It can seem like an effective way to "get" a man....then shortly, you find yourself pregnant AGAIN, thinking he is here to stay but the man is gone as soon as the money is spent. And on to a new "victim".
It is nearly impossible to measure this. How do you measure how much of those food stamps are going to feed a 200 lb adult man, vs. a 6 year old child? It all goes into one supermarket cart! And people know this, so they exploit the system.
Ask yourself why children require a free lunch or breakfast at school -- when they ALREADY GET $150 a month each in food stamps? as much as an adult man? it isn't enough to buy a box of cereal, gallon of milk or jar of peanut butter?
3
Charles, please read the book "Please Stop Helping Us". It's eye-opening. Oh, wait, it's not "on message". Sorry. But hey, now readers of your column will have a chance to read something different from the mantra you are pushing.
14
I have never read a more illustrative piece of rationalization.
19
I was born of the silent generation of WW 2 depression era parents in Chicago. We were taught as kids any problems with the Blacks was the White mans doing. Then LBJ's Great Society came along and we were told he had all the answers. Sad to say most of the issues are still with us.
1
Mass incarceration is the result of high criminal activity.
Why does Blow not urge "protesters" to demand that individuals
1. obey the law
2. get the best education and work skills possible
3.don't have children before you can support them
4. don't take drugs
Why does Blow not urge "protesters" to demand that individuals
1. obey the law
2. get the best education and work skills possible
3.don't have children before you can support them
4. don't take drugs
18
Because, jck, that is not what this column is about. It is a deeper look into what the statistics mean. A given column has limited space, and anyway, everything a black man writes should not have to include the same bromides over and over again.
Perhaps preceding every news story, column or opinion piece written by any person of color on any topic we should mandate they remind their black and Hispanic readers 1. obey the law... 2. get the best education and work skills possible...yada yada yada...then we would never have to engage in the hard discussions, except about which community gets the prisons. They create jobs, you know.
Perhaps preceding every news story, column or opinion piece written by any person of color on any topic we should mandate they remind their black and Hispanic readers 1. obey the law... 2. get the best education and work skills possible...yada yada yada...then we would never have to engage in the hard discussions, except about which community gets the prisons. They create jobs, you know.
2
Let's take each of these points individually.
1. "obey the law"
So, you are saying that black men are more unlawful than white men? Could it possibly be that a disproportionate amount of law enforcement is aimed at minorities and therefore they are disproportionately arrested and incarcerated? If police resources were aimed at white neighborhoods, I'm sure arrest rates would increase dramatically, especially for drugs.
2. "get the best education and work skills possible"
Are you kidding me? White people have trouble with this.
And to do what? Work at a job that does not provide a living wage?
3. "don't have children before you can support them"
Two points: first, as Mr. Blow suggested, the male to female ratio has been skewed. This is no excuse on the surface for "playing the field" and not getting married. Second, this is not a problem only in the black community; it is rooted in a general lack of economic and social mobility over the last 30 years. While the rich have gotten richer off the fat of the land everyone else has suffered. In order for women to put off child bearing for the future there has to be rational economic reason to do so. If there isn't, and there is questionable economic viability of potential mates, then there is no reason to delay childbearing.
4. "don't take drugs"
Good advise for EVERYBODY!
1. "obey the law"
So, you are saying that black men are more unlawful than white men? Could it possibly be that a disproportionate amount of law enforcement is aimed at minorities and therefore they are disproportionately arrested and incarcerated? If police resources were aimed at white neighborhoods, I'm sure arrest rates would increase dramatically, especially for drugs.
2. "get the best education and work skills possible"
Are you kidding me? White people have trouble with this.
And to do what? Work at a job that does not provide a living wage?
3. "don't have children before you can support them"
Two points: first, as Mr. Blow suggested, the male to female ratio has been skewed. This is no excuse on the surface for "playing the field" and not getting married. Second, this is not a problem only in the black community; it is rooted in a general lack of economic and social mobility over the last 30 years. While the rich have gotten richer off the fat of the land everyone else has suffered. In order for women to put off child bearing for the future there has to be rational economic reason to do so. If there isn't, and there is questionable economic viability of potential mates, then there is no reason to delay childbearing.
4. "don't take drugs"
Good advise for EVERYBODY!
25
Here's another mythology, corrosive or not: Black women of low-income groups ensnare Black men to father their children so they can live off child support.
6
Poor women of all races have children early in the relationship in the hope of promoting attachment from the male. Nobody has children to live off welfare checks. Most women prefer the children's Dad live with them. It is just that if the man continues to make bad personal choices, he eventually becomes a liability to have around. Is a woman has already had children from multiple men, the quality of men she attracts eventually becomes so poor that she is better off alone.
1
The pervasive inner city black on black violence and the resulting high rate of incarceration of young black men surely cannot be explained by the admirable parenting skills of black fathers?
14
Mr. Blow uses statistics to mask the reality. I have no doubt that black fathers who live with their children are every bit as good fathers as anyone else, however, 50% of black fathers do not live with their children and over twice as many black fathers do not live with their children as white fathers. Denying that there's a problem does not advance the solution.
18
Instead of all this mumbo jumbo, let's get down to the hard facts. 72% of African American children are born out of wedlock and without a wedded father to the mother and the odds of a child growing up in poverty is huge and the cycle is getting worse. Never mind the fact that less than 50 years ago the vast majority of African American children grew up in married households. People make choices some are good some are bad this is a choice that has awful consequences for the children period and fathers are to blame.
18
"Mass incarceration has disproportionately ensnared young black men, "
Disproportionately to what? It is not disproportionate to crime committed.
Ensnared? Committing a crime in getting caught is far from being ensnared.
Disproportionately to what? It is not disproportionate to crime committed.
Ensnared? Committing a crime in getting caught is far from being ensnared.
29
"Disproportionately to what? It is not disproportionate to crime committed."
Actually, it is, e.g.:
"Black Americans were nearly four times as likely as whites to be arrested on charges of marijuana possession in 2010, even though the two groups used the drug at similar rates, according to new federal data."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-lik...
Actually, it is, e.g.:
"Black Americans were nearly four times as likely as whites to be arrested on charges of marijuana possession in 2010, even though the two groups used the drug at similar rates, according to new federal data."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-lik...
35
It's disproportionate to the level of the so-called criminal acts. Possession of small amounts of drugs puts Blacks in jail while Wall St. traders and actors snort to their hearts' content. The justice system is loaded against the poor and Blacks.
3
Excellent article, CB. But duck--here come the indignant brickbats.
It's hard to keep up with the times--we had a lot of ink on Ferguson and Baltimore, but now we have more incidents, poolside in Texas and curbside in Florida. How can anyone shut their eyes to the mismatch between need for good policing and the criminal element we hire to provide it?
It's hard to keep up with the times--we had a lot of ink on Ferguson and Baltimore, but now we have more incidents, poolside in Texas and curbside in Florida. How can anyone shut their eyes to the mismatch between need for good policing and the criminal element we hire to provide it?
4
The Asian immigrant population also suffers from much discrimination, poverty, and lack of formal education. Yet, their family unit is tight and their children are academic rock stars. No more excuses Mr. Blow.
53
Asians are invisible to Blow.
Just as facts are inconvenient to Blow and truth is inimical to Blow.
To Blow, the world is Black and White, and Black is good and White is evil.
How pathetic.
Just as facts are inconvenient to Blow and truth is inimical to Blow.
To Blow, the world is Black and White, and Black is good and White is evil.
How pathetic.
3
Asian immigrants have a stronger sense of self. They have:
1) Direct knowledge and pride in their own culture, language, religion and traditions, unlike the descendants of enslaved Africans
2) Due to cultural pride and language barriers, poorer immigrants have built-in job opportunities serving their countrymen in the USA.
3) Many Asian immigrants come to the USA on student visas, meaning they are well-educated individuals.
4) Many Asian immigrants do so for economic opportunities, so despite language and cultural barriers, they still have business skills and interpersonal networks to help them get set up in the USA.
5) Many immigrants are the most ambitious and hard-working of their group. Their lazy countrymen stayed at home.
6) There is a lot of insitutionalized racism against Black people that has lasted for hundreds of years in the USA. If we are poor, we are leeches; if middle class, we are undeserving recipients of college seats and jobs due to affirmative action; and if we follow your implied advice, and work together to form businesses and hire our own to reduce unemployment in our community, we are called racist (see examples of people calling BET and Ebony magazine racist).
1) Direct knowledge and pride in their own culture, language, religion and traditions, unlike the descendants of enslaved Africans
2) Due to cultural pride and language barriers, poorer immigrants have built-in job opportunities serving their countrymen in the USA.
3) Many Asian immigrants come to the USA on student visas, meaning they are well-educated individuals.
4) Many Asian immigrants do so for economic opportunities, so despite language and cultural barriers, they still have business skills and interpersonal networks to help them get set up in the USA.
5) Many immigrants are the most ambitious and hard-working of their group. Their lazy countrymen stayed at home.
6) There is a lot of insitutionalized racism against Black people that has lasted for hundreds of years in the USA. If we are poor, we are leeches; if middle class, we are undeserving recipients of college seats and jobs due to affirmative action; and if we follow your implied advice, and work together to form businesses and hire our own to reduce unemployment in our community, we are called racist (see examples of people calling BET and Ebony magazine racist).
30
If black fathers are doing the "best of all" with the families they have procreated, we have far more trouble than we thought we did.
"Stars in my crown" is what some NBA stars call their fathered children, proud of their potent progeny, but sadlly are absent as father figures in their kids lives.
It's not just the blacks, either. Why buy the cow when the milk is free. Why, even the abortions are free. Food is free, too, and a roof over your head these days, plus a cellphone.
If you are looking for blame on this blight of fatherhood as we fast approach the day that honors fathers everywhere, it's easily found. What a fall from the grace of fatherhood and family. And the best we can find on betterment is this piece of corrosive commentary.
"Stars in my crown" is what some NBA stars call their fathered children, proud of their potent progeny, but sadlly are absent as father figures in their kids lives.
It's not just the blacks, either. Why buy the cow when the milk is free. Why, even the abortions are free. Food is free, too, and a roof over your head these days, plus a cellphone.
If you are looking for blame on this blight of fatherhood as we fast approach the day that honors fathers everywhere, it's easily found. What a fall from the grace of fatherhood and family. And the best we can find on betterment is this piece of corrosive commentary.
9
Charles is again writing his columns remotely from Dismey World.
What type of fantasy world are YOU living in?
I invite you to visit Tax the Entrepreneur More Land
to support the Totally Dysfunctional Segment of Society Land.
What type of fantasy world are YOU living in?
I invite you to visit Tax the Entrepreneur More Land
to support the Totally Dysfunctional Segment of Society Land.
15
Black dads are doing good if (1) being in prison, (2) having children living in multiple households, (3) and spending daytime hours with your kids while their mother works is doing good.
27
There are some really interesting demographic and geographic variations in births to unmarried numbers.
Based on CDC date for 2013, for instance, 41% of white mothers and 41% of Hispanic mothers in Maine were unmarried, vs 29% of black mothers. In New Hampshire, 34% of white mothers were unmarried vs 47% of black mothers and 52% of Hispanic mothers. In Vermont, 40% of white mothers, 38% of black mothers, and 39% of Hispanic mothers were unmarried.
In New Jersey, 18% of white mothers, 67% of black mothers, and 59% of Hispanic mothers were unmarried. In the District of Columbia, it's 5%, 78%, and 59%.
Besides variations in percentages, there are huge variations in absolute numbers, depending on the population. In Florida, there were roughly 37,000
births to white unmarried women, 34,000 births to black unmarried women, and 30,000 births to Hispanic unmarried women.
In Indiana, it was roughly 24,000 births to single white women vs 7000 for black women and 3000 for Hispanic women. In California, 34,000 births to single white women vs 19,000 births to single black women, and 126,000 births to single Hispanic women.
Generalized numbers are useful, but they don't tell the whole story.
Based on CDC date for 2013, for instance, 41% of white mothers and 41% of Hispanic mothers in Maine were unmarried, vs 29% of black mothers. In New Hampshire, 34% of white mothers were unmarried vs 47% of black mothers and 52% of Hispanic mothers. In Vermont, 40% of white mothers, 38% of black mothers, and 39% of Hispanic mothers were unmarried.
In New Jersey, 18% of white mothers, 67% of black mothers, and 59% of Hispanic mothers were unmarried. In the District of Columbia, it's 5%, 78%, and 59%.
Besides variations in percentages, there are huge variations in absolute numbers, depending on the population. In Florida, there were roughly 37,000
births to white unmarried women, 34,000 births to black unmarried women, and 30,000 births to Hispanic unmarried women.
In Indiana, it was roughly 24,000 births to single white women vs 7000 for black women and 3000 for Hispanic women. In California, 34,000 births to single white women vs 19,000 births to single black women, and 126,000 births to single Hispanic women.
Generalized numbers are useful, but they don't tell the whole story.
8
What is missing from the analysis is not just geography (which is interesting) but also income as well. Are poor black women more likely to have absentee fathers of their children? Does that also hold for whites and hispanics? Intuition says that it does....
None of my comment is researched or scientifically based, and of course the answers may fill libraries worth of words & books. There seemed to be a day many - many years ago when black & white communities, regardless of their socio economic status worked to raise children to live with pride, integrity, and responsibility. Interpret those words however you like. Perhaps with the terrible deterioration of especially lower social economic brackets due to drugs and other influencers - these family structures, including African American - collapsed. Until we can return to a system that encourages a more stable family type environment that encourages role modeling by participating in the larger system thru education, gainful employment, etc we'll see sad outcomes perpetuate. I was blessed to grow up in a two parent family that demanded I get an education, stay out of jail, get a job, and most importantly respect authority and my fellow person. Whether thru community support systems or families - we have to give young people a reason to believe... in this as a way to live.
7
The reason those communities produced great kids regardless of socioeconomic status was two-fold: family structure and religion.
We proudly held onto our faith in God then, but all enforcers of the modern entertainment-media culture forbid our ever being reminded about religion any more. East-cast newspaper publishers race to see who can hate and ridicule family structure and religious groups the fastest and best.
You would think the Soviet top-down socialist culture sprouted here with vehemence after it died away where it got started. Its current bestseller: the fake ''wealth inequality'' crisis.
We proudly held onto our faith in God then, but all enforcers of the modern entertainment-media culture forbid our ever being reminded about religion any more. East-cast newspaper publishers race to see who can hate and ridicule family structure and religious groups the fastest and best.
You would think the Soviet top-down socialist culture sprouted here with vehemence after it died away where it got started. Its current bestseller: the fake ''wealth inequality'' crisis.
I have watched this debate, about racial issues in America, for decades. I have seen social programs come and go. I have listened to hundreds of "debates" concerning integration and diversity. If I hear another person suggest we have "an honest and open debate about racial issues in America" I think I'll be ill. We've been failing to deal with this issue for generations and I see nothing to indicate anything will change. I suggest we have created a social situation best described as the "new normal" in which conflicts will continue and these same problems will be with us for the foreseeable future.
7
The two destroyers of family life in poor American communities, notably in poor black communities, are mass incarceration which as Mr. Blow notes disproportionately impacts young black men; and social welfare policies that for generations have required women to prove they are "manless" before they are permitted to receive benefits.
This latter tactic is particularly invidious. Going back decades, reactionary legislators have insisted that welfare benefits go only to women who were widowed, divorced, never married, certainly living without a man--even the father of their children. Struggling families could not qualify for support even in the leanest of times: only lone, struggling women were held to "deserve" the grudging largess of the state.
It's been one of the cruelest negative incentives in history, a weapon against the black family brandished by the kind of men who believe, deep down, that the safest thing to do with any young black man is to throw him up against a wall and charge him with something.
That black Americans are glibly, routinely, blamed for the "moral breakdown" in their communities as if it were some kind of innate racial flaw is a white barbarism in itself, insult to injury, salt in the wound.
Generation after generation, the white ruling class has done whatever was needed to produce profound, persistent damage, then sat back and solemnly declared that black folks needed to do something about those inexplicable black pathologies.
Unforgivable.
This latter tactic is particularly invidious. Going back decades, reactionary legislators have insisted that welfare benefits go only to women who were widowed, divorced, never married, certainly living without a man--even the father of their children. Struggling families could not qualify for support even in the leanest of times: only lone, struggling women were held to "deserve" the grudging largess of the state.
It's been one of the cruelest negative incentives in history, a weapon against the black family brandished by the kind of men who believe, deep down, that the safest thing to do with any young black man is to throw him up against a wall and charge him with something.
That black Americans are glibly, routinely, blamed for the "moral breakdown" in their communities as if it were some kind of innate racial flaw is a white barbarism in itself, insult to injury, salt in the wound.
Generation after generation, the white ruling class has done whatever was needed to produce profound, persistent damage, then sat back and solemnly declared that black folks needed to do something about those inexplicable black pathologies.
Unforgivable.
12
I find it troubling that the entertainment industry is an enthusiastic supporter of the baby mama culture, which is all pervasive in today's music. It insinuates itself into movies, television and other media in not only an accepting but almost proselytizing fashion. Granted this is an epiphenomenon, as making money supersedes positive cultural values every time, but it's influence can only serve to exacerbate the perpetuation of irresponsibility in reproductive and parenting behavior.
9
From just looking around, it seems to me the important ages are from 16-23, probably closer to 16, the time when sexual urges are the strongest, and maturity not developed yet. Add to this sexually suggestive images in advertising, TV, and blatant sexual images on cable TV and much lower acceptable moral standards for all races today shows these ages are more important than 25-54. 25-54 yr olds have a more developed morality and sense of responsibility, better hormonal control, and better able to witness bad effects on child rearing. This applies to all races.
3
The unspoken but critically important fact missing from this analysis is that the 72% black, single mother, birthrate and the 'missing male' incarceration rate are both relatively new social developments. This was not the case two generations ago. The biggest reason for the concern is that there is overwhelming anecdotal evidence that the first (the single mom household) results in the second (prison or death). Another unspoken fact is that there is a financial incentive provided by the government to encourage mothers not to be married. This will obviously permeate the poorer neighborhoods faster. There is an unmistakable connection to the rise in poverty with the elimination of the USA's manufacturing base that used to offer so much opportunity. This can be traced to terrible trade agreements of the late 90s.
Black Dads may or may not be the best. There are surely functionally absentee White Dads but being there in the first place is critical. Regardless, the constant publicity campaign to deflect responsibility or point blame at other people or twist facts to imply there isn't really a bad problem, just ensures it will go on and get worse. Memorial Day weekend, in the predominantly Black neighborhoods of Chicago, there 56 shootings, 12 of which resulted in fatalities. There is no way to spin that so it sounds OK.
Black Dads may or may not be the best. There are surely functionally absentee White Dads but being there in the first place is critical. Regardless, the constant publicity campaign to deflect responsibility or point blame at other people or twist facts to imply there isn't really a bad problem, just ensures it will go on and get worse. Memorial Day weekend, in the predominantly Black neighborhoods of Chicago, there 56 shootings, 12 of which resulted in fatalities. There is no way to spin that so it sounds OK.
15
The CDC report does not have a single study on daily activity of dads with kids, Mr. Blow. all data was "past 4 weeks" of activity.
Given the very high incidence of black dads in prison, I think it is very hard to assert that "black dads are doing fine". pulling a single statistic from one study (and misusing it, I would add) is thoroughly inadequate if you are trying to prove that black dads get short shrift in the media.
As a taxpayer I am tired of paying for other cultures' poor choices. Black dads going to jail all the time is a big societal problem. They are not all there because of corrupt police practices either. Being a criminal in black society is simply too acceptable in many places, yet being a criminal often relegates one permanently to the lower economic classes where the cycle of failure perpetuates.
How about some articles on how black culture can look inward and decide collectively to change some of these cultural deficiencies? you can't keep blaming whitey. Asians get discriminated against too, but in one generation (or less) they become your employer and then send their kids to Harvard. how do you explain that?
Separately, the CDC study noted that only 30% of dads surveyed had read to their young children in the past 4 weeks - that is pathethic. that stat includes all races, and we as a nation should be embarrassed.
Given the very high incidence of black dads in prison, I think it is very hard to assert that "black dads are doing fine". pulling a single statistic from one study (and misusing it, I would add) is thoroughly inadequate if you are trying to prove that black dads get short shrift in the media.
As a taxpayer I am tired of paying for other cultures' poor choices. Black dads going to jail all the time is a big societal problem. They are not all there because of corrupt police practices either. Being a criminal in black society is simply too acceptable in many places, yet being a criminal often relegates one permanently to the lower economic classes where the cycle of failure perpetuates.
How about some articles on how black culture can look inward and decide collectively to change some of these cultural deficiencies? you can't keep blaming whitey. Asians get discriminated against too, but in one generation (or less) they become your employer and then send their kids to Harvard. how do you explain that?
Separately, the CDC study noted that only 30% of dads surveyed had read to their young children in the past 4 weeks - that is pathethic. that stat includes all races, and we as a nation should be embarrassed.
30
I don't much like getting stuck with the check for the 2006 economic crash, the war in Iraq, global warming, and a few other little bells and whistles that "white culture," started, either, so maybe a little less trumpeting.
Yes, Charles Blow makes several good points in this article, but as usual his analysis is one sided. When you talk about mass incarceration, these are not innocent people railroaded into prison. Nobody goes to prison for a first non-violent crime in America. There is a long rap sheet behind every one of these individuals usually starting off as juveniles.
Among humans in normal circumstances, males usually outnumber females until age 25 in all races. This gives females the ability to control sex and pick and choose her mate. The peculiar circumstances of Black America (incarceration plus early death at the hands of mostly fellow blacks) puts the male in control of sex and picking mates. The limited number of quality males essentially have these females at their beck and call, hence the serial impregnations. Apart from children with absentee fathers, there are other negative effects such as a STD rate of 50 % plus in Black women of a certain age group.
Unmarried women becoming pregnant early in a relationship is a well documented phenomenon where poor women hope that having a baby together will promote an attachment from the male. This is true of all races.
Among humans in normal circumstances, males usually outnumber females until age 25 in all races. This gives females the ability to control sex and pick and choose her mate. The peculiar circumstances of Black America (incarceration plus early death at the hands of mostly fellow blacks) puts the male in control of sex and picking mates. The limited number of quality males essentially have these females at their beck and call, hence the serial impregnations. Apart from children with absentee fathers, there are other negative effects such as a STD rate of 50 % plus in Black women of a certain age group.
Unmarried women becoming pregnant early in a relationship is a well documented phenomenon where poor women hope that having a baby together will promote an attachment from the male. This is true of all races.
13
No one goes to prison for a first non-violent crime in America?? Are you not aware of the mandatory federal drug sentencing? The Washington Post just had an article on the subject, and profiled one man who is serving 10 years for dealing 223 grams of meth. No prior record, no history of violence. And he's hardly an anomaly unfortunately.
Actually, people do go to prison for first time non-violent crime. I recently saw a young man with no prior history sentenced to seven years in federal prison because he dealt drugs while carrying an unloaded, inoperable gun (the barrel had been removed). That counts as commission of a felony using a "firearm", which (thanks to ridiculous mandatory sentencing laws) means a mandatory minimum of 5 years, to run consecutive to the drug dealing sentence. Did he do the crime? Yes. Should he be in prison for 7 years, at taxpayer expense, producing a prison-hardened 30 year old with no skills at the end? In my opinion, no. The fact that someone is "guilty" is not the end of the inquiry into the problem of mass incarceration.
It's one of the saddest ideas of all time, but it still remains -- that poor women think that having a man's baby will bind that man to them, and "make them responsible'. I hear such talk regularly. But the sad truth is that it does JUST THE OPPOSITE -- the man is frightened of responsibility (especially if he is young and poor) and he runs in the opposite direction.
BTW: this is just as big a problem among poor whites as poor blacks.
BTW: this is just as big a problem among poor whites as poor blacks.
4
So what? Who cares if black dads are doing the best of all? As compared to who, why, where, what and when?
In the exalted mythological post-racial Age of Obama, there are more blacks on welfare, in prison and unemployed than ever before. Having spent 90% of their American history as persons denied their humanity as chattel property slaves and or denied their equality as Americans colored by socioeconomic political educational American white supremacist racist bigoted history you would expect those things to be true.
The reality is that the majority of Americans dwelling and dawdling in that condemned cultural realm are white. While the proportion of blacks is higher there are 5x as many white people. The negative things that are ascribed and described as innately uniquely typical of black cultural norms are also endemic and enduring aspects of white culture.
That some blacks have managed to climb, survive and even thrive despite carrying the burden of their physically identifiable minority American history is something to note. But it is not cause for celebration. Most of us are average in talent and ability.
The twin myths of white supremacy and black inferiority vanish when viewed through the colored lens of American history. If whites truly believed in black inferiority then they would not have cheated to stay on top. Slavery and Jim Crow were cheating.
Where would blacks be if America practiced in reality what it preaches by rhetorical fiction?
In the exalted mythological post-racial Age of Obama, there are more blacks on welfare, in prison and unemployed than ever before. Having spent 90% of their American history as persons denied their humanity as chattel property slaves and or denied their equality as Americans colored by socioeconomic political educational American white supremacist racist bigoted history you would expect those things to be true.
The reality is that the majority of Americans dwelling and dawdling in that condemned cultural realm are white. While the proportion of blacks is higher there are 5x as many white people. The negative things that are ascribed and described as innately uniquely typical of black cultural norms are also endemic and enduring aspects of white culture.
That some blacks have managed to climb, survive and even thrive despite carrying the burden of their physically identifiable minority American history is something to note. But it is not cause for celebration. Most of us are average in talent and ability.
The twin myths of white supremacy and black inferiority vanish when viewed through the colored lens of American history. If whites truly believed in black inferiority then they would not have cheated to stay on top. Slavery and Jim Crow were cheating.
Where would blacks be if America practiced in reality what it preaches by rhetorical fiction?
11
Here's another view from Pew research center:
"Black fathers are more than twice as likely as white fathers to live apart from their children (44% vs. 21%), while Hispanic fathers fall in the middle (35%). Among fathers who never completed high school, 40% live apart from their children. This compares with only 7% of fathers who graduated from college."
Everyone has to draw their own conclusions. Blow seems like a decent guy but he's delusional in my view if he thinks 72% of births to unmarried women is just fine and good for the social fabric of the black community. And finally that black dads are best of all.
"Black fathers are more than twice as likely as white fathers to live apart from their children (44% vs. 21%), while Hispanic fathers fall in the middle (35%). Among fathers who never completed high school, 40% live apart from their children. This compares with only 7% of fathers who graduated from college."
Everyone has to draw their own conclusions. Blow seems like a decent guy but he's delusional in my view if he thinks 72% of births to unmarried women is just fine and good for the social fabric of the black community. And finally that black dads are best of all.
47
I think one of the things that Charles Blow's excellent editorial points out is the difficulty in using quantitative measurments for an inherently qualitative and nuanced relationship. "How" you spend time with children... is every bit as important as how much actual time you spend, or such ambigous "signifiers" as eating with your child or dressing them.
Here's an illustrative example. I was at a 4 year old's birthday party with my son, when a child whom I did not know came up and hit me, pinched me, and then bit me (hard). I ignored the behavior as it escalated not wanting to give a negative reaction which might reinforce the behavior. He went on to demontrate several additional violent/anti-social behaviors, which his parents ignored.
The child went on to smash the pinata with unnaturally strong force in a perfect MLB swing (after pushing my child away to cut the line). HIs extremely well muscled white father cheered. I later asked him why his son's swing was so strong. He proudly said, "we work on baseball every single day. It's our thing."
I thought to myself, here is a father doing what would be considered model behavior under most circumstances... However, given the kid's personality/issues, the last thing I would be doing is reinforce aggressive tendencies.
Effective parenting requires time, knowledge and resources. Our society is complicit in denying all three to black men and then blaming them for the results.
Here's an illustrative example. I was at a 4 year old's birthday party with my son, when a child whom I did not know came up and hit me, pinched me, and then bit me (hard). I ignored the behavior as it escalated not wanting to give a negative reaction which might reinforce the behavior. He went on to demontrate several additional violent/anti-social behaviors, which his parents ignored.
The child went on to smash the pinata with unnaturally strong force in a perfect MLB swing (after pushing my child away to cut the line). HIs extremely well muscled white father cheered. I later asked him why his son's swing was so strong. He proudly said, "we work on baseball every single day. It's our thing."
I thought to myself, here is a father doing what would be considered model behavior under most circumstances... However, given the kid's personality/issues, the last thing I would be doing is reinforce aggressive tendencies.
Effective parenting requires time, knowledge and resources. Our society is complicit in denying all three to black men and then blaming them for the results.
47
No, this is the dad's and the mom's fault. The kid will probably not live long enough to even benefit from all this training because he will run into some meaner armed youth who won't take the abuse and deal with it in the only way HE knows: permanently.
There's an oft-mis-used phrase about the sins of the fathers that actually applies here. It will be lived out in widescreen Technicolor in the early funeral this ''future slugger's'' parents get to arrange sometime in the 2030's.
There's an oft-mis-used phrase about the sins of the fathers that actually applies here. It will be lived out in widescreen Technicolor in the early funeral this ''future slugger's'' parents get to arrange sometime in the 2030's.
In order for a father to be a father he needs a job that pays a living wage and offers advancement. Stable families require an income sufficient to build a future.
Unions used to provide entry level workers with that kind of opportunity, but have been weakened by laws promoted by big business. Give people a decent standard of living, with good health care and a good education for their children, and they will take care of themselves and their futures.
The richest country on earth has the capacity to do just that but, regrettably, not the will.
Unions used to provide entry level workers with that kind of opportunity, but have been weakened by laws promoted by big business. Give people a decent standard of living, with good health care and a good education for their children, and they will take care of themselves and their futures.
The richest country on earth has the capacity to do just that but, regrettably, not the will.
109
True, but this is not a new phenomena, as it was the same even 30 years ago, when even a warehouse job paid a living wage.
Next excuse?
Next excuse?
Common sense leads me to believe that some cultures value the institution of marriage and/or monogamy quite differently. That is whether or not polygamy outside of marriage (i.e. having multiple sexual partners) leads to stigmatization of the children and/or pathology. In some cultures, having children out of wedlock is considered normal like France where 50% of children have non-married parents. In contrast, in Japan it is very rare to have children outside of marriage. This is because the government doesn't provide any rights to non-civil union relationships, meaning the relationship is not protected by law, so these "knocked up" women will have no tax, welfare or inheritance benefits from the government. When the financial incentives for marriage are removed, the institution of marriage is penalized by those seeking government entitlements like food stamps, welfare, Sec. 8 housing & Medicaid because the combined income is too high, thus encouraging women to stay single & pushing men out of the home.
This is not a concern for well educated, upper-middle class couples of any race, who tend to be more monogamous & less likely to commit adultery outside of marriage. Perhaps this is why Black married women have a lower childbirth rate than non-married Blacks as they have careers which postpone childbirth. Births outside of wedlock are on the rise globally among the less educated, non-religious & less financially stable, creating a rocky future for their children.
This is not a concern for well educated, upper-middle class couples of any race, who tend to be more monogamous & less likely to commit adultery outside of marriage. Perhaps this is why Black married women have a lower childbirth rate than non-married Blacks as they have careers which postpone childbirth. Births outside of wedlock are on the rise globally among the less educated, non-religious & less financially stable, creating a rocky future for their children.
25
Different cultural norms are fine. So are choices based on religion.
But please do not ask those of us who limit our families to the numbers we can deal with -- by ourselves -- to pay to support the offspring of those for whom having more children means a notch on their belt, a bigger apartment in Brooklyn, or the joy of producing a ninth possible messiah.
But please do not ask those of us who limit our families to the numbers we can deal with -- by ourselves -- to pay to support the offspring of those for whom having more children means a notch on their belt, a bigger apartment in Brooklyn, or the joy of producing a ninth possible messiah.
The problem with black fathers is that they have multiple children with multiple women and they do not support their children because many of these fathers do not work. So American taxpayers pay billions annually for welfare to support the black children of these fathers. How can these fathers be present when their children live in different neighborhoods, cities or states? Being a good dad is a full time job. Anyone can be a father, but being a dad requires a lot more time, effort and commitment. Mr. Blow is obviously not a dad.
95
@RGV - The problem with opinions that begin with sentences like, ''The problem with black fathers'' is fourfold: it assumes there is a problem with all black fathers by stereotype; it assumes that they are promiscuous or serial begetters; it states that 'many' of these fathers 'do not work." But, the zinger that makes this a stunning self-indictment of racist attitude is its dismissive conclusion, ''Mr. Blow is obviously not a dad.'' A cursory amount of research would have revealed that Mr. Blow lives happily married in Brooklyn and is father to three children. [http://www.nytimes.com/column/charles-m-blow].
It has always struck me how black men in our society are held to a standard that white men seem never held accountable to. How many CEO's and uber rich have serial families? Traded in wife #1? Had dalliances? - Somehow - I cannot recall them being held up as the reason our society has so many problems. They may provide fodder for salacious gossip, but that's about it.
It's poverty, unemployment, discrimination, and the prejudiced attitudes toward black men - 'those black men' - 'most blacks' - etc. that has fueled hopelessness, anger, and cyclical poverty. Many of the opinionators here should take a hard look at their own attitudes before blaming others, least of all Mr. Blow, who is simply trying to introduce some depth and reasonable explanations behind a complex series of problems that have been worsened by course and cynical Willie Horton ad politics.
It has always struck me how black men in our society are held to a standard that white men seem never held accountable to. How many CEO's and uber rich have serial families? Traded in wife #1? Had dalliances? - Somehow - I cannot recall them being held up as the reason our society has so many problems. They may provide fodder for salacious gossip, but that's about it.
It's poverty, unemployment, discrimination, and the prejudiced attitudes toward black men - 'those black men' - 'most blacks' - etc. that has fueled hopelessness, anger, and cyclical poverty. Many of the opinionators here should take a hard look at their own attitudes before blaming others, least of all Mr. Blow, who is simply trying to introduce some depth and reasonable explanations behind a complex series of problems that have been worsened by course and cynical Willie Horton ad politics.
12
If you read Mr. Blow on a more regular basis, you would know he is indeed a dad. I think you didn't really read this article, either.
1
Mr. Blow is a dad, and having multiple children with multiple women is not strictly reserved for Black people. As a Black man, from Maine, who attended law school in Boston, you have done a tremendous disservice and allowed Blow's subjective rhetoric to bait you into a visceral response that Blow will use to fuel his contentions that racism exists in a proportion that it really does not. By not even bothering to do research, and jumping on a racist narrative, you advance the notion that there are Bill O'Reilly/Fox News disciples out there who will react just as you did.
I am Black, and have never agreed with anything Charles M. Blow says because sadly, as a lawyer in Washington DC, working on Capitol Hill I see the failed Obama presidency up close and how it has shaped a downward trajectory on our nation. I also disagree with Blow using the color of my skin as a constant excuse for the bad choices of this President, and youth in Baltimore, Ferguson and anywhere he can conjure up his cause. But we can disagree without being disagreeable.
Next time, think before you opine.
I am Black, and have never agreed with anything Charles M. Blow says because sadly, as a lawyer in Washington DC, working on Capitol Hill I see the failed Obama presidency up close and how it has shaped a downward trajectory on our nation. I also disagree with Blow using the color of my skin as a constant excuse for the bad choices of this President, and youth in Baltimore, Ferguson and anywhere he can conjure up his cause. But we can disagree without being disagreeable.
Next time, think before you opine.
3
Black Is Best
1967 Ali gave what became known as his "Black is Best" speech, in which he exhorted students to abandon society's concept of them and to fashion their own, based upon pride in themselves and their people:
1967 Ali gave what became known as his "Black is Best" speech, in which he exhorted students to abandon society's concept of them and to fashion their own, based upon pride in themselves and their people:
6
Distortions like this do not help Blacks, or even Blow's cause.
115
Distortions like what? You mean the stuff you don't want to hear?
Too many responses to this assume that the men incarcerated are guilty, and that releasing them would increase crime, and that time sentenced is just.
A very high percentage of those incarcerated are pre-trial detainees. They have not been found guilty. Some who eventually plead guilty do so as the price to get out -- plead and be sentenced to time served, or stay in until a trial.
Furthermore, there is evidence that rates of incarceration are not linked to crime rates. They moved independently. No cause and effect. It is a policing myth of self justification that high rates of incarceration reduce crime rates.
Finally, the length of sentences has skyrocketed, as politicians try to prove themselves tough. It is far past justice, and our own best Federal Judges say so often.
Mr. Blow here explains part of the price to everyone of this injustice to some.
A very high percentage of those incarcerated are pre-trial detainees. They have not been found guilty. Some who eventually plead guilty do so as the price to get out -- plead and be sentenced to time served, or stay in until a trial.
Furthermore, there is evidence that rates of incarceration are not linked to crime rates. They moved independently. No cause and effect. It is a policing myth of self justification that high rates of incarceration reduce crime rates.
Finally, the length of sentences has skyrocketed, as politicians try to prove themselves tough. It is far past justice, and our own best Federal Judges say so often.
Mr. Blow here explains part of the price to everyone of this injustice to some.
110
Not to mention the legions incarcerated for low-level drug possession or dealing.
The only thing the war on drugs accomplishes is to provide tens of thousands of cushy $75K/year-plus jobs for white people in law enforcement, federal agencies, the prison industrial complex, the judicial system, consulting and more.
It does nothing to curb the human appetite for ease of tension via substance abuse and it tears apart communities. Somebody please explain to me why purveyors of booze, which causes far more in the way of death, destruction and disease, are (or were) socialites in their communities -- the Busches, the Coors, the Strohs, the Browns, the wine producers, and so on -- while some guy who deals a few pounds of weed is behind bars.
A friend is a public defender and recently had a case where a profoundly sick and disabled man with virtually no income was assessed thousands of dollars in fines because he tried to deal a small amount to buy holiday presents for his kids. He has no money to pay even $100 in fines, nearly went to jail and was dragged through repeated court appearances till a sympathetic judge (in a southern state, a miracle) threw out the case.
But the beer and wine and liquor sellers are treated with respect and deference.
The only thing the war on drugs accomplishes is to provide tens of thousands of cushy $75K/year-plus jobs for white people in law enforcement, federal agencies, the prison industrial complex, the judicial system, consulting and more.
It does nothing to curb the human appetite for ease of tension via substance abuse and it tears apart communities. Somebody please explain to me why purveyors of booze, which causes far more in the way of death, destruction and disease, are (or were) socialites in their communities -- the Busches, the Coors, the Strohs, the Browns, the wine producers, and so on -- while some guy who deals a few pounds of weed is behind bars.
A friend is a public defender and recently had a case where a profoundly sick and disabled man with virtually no income was assessed thousands of dollars in fines because he tried to deal a small amount to buy holiday presents for his kids. He has no money to pay even $100 in fines, nearly went to jail and was dragged through repeated court appearances till a sympathetic judge (in a southern state, a miracle) threw out the case.
But the beer and wine and liquor sellers are treated with respect and deference.
7
OK sure... Locking up criminals has no effect of crime rates. Progressives will believe anything that promotes their narrative.
2
Can you cite a single study showing that most prisoners are innocent?
4
I think it's a bit simplistic to blame rising incarceration (which I agree is not a good thing) to the breakdown of black families. There are still the underlying questions of what those black fathers who are incarcerated were doing to get arrested and jailed in the first place. I know there are wider factors at play, but we can't overlook the choices that individual people make.
146
Not a "good thing.." Try an evil thing.
1
The only mythology going on here is in your facts Mr. Blow. Mass Incarceration has not disproportionately "ensnared" young black men. Rather illegal behavior of their own making has caused young black men to be arrested at high rates. That's proportionately correct to the behavior that causes one to be arrested. Skin color has nothing to do with it. Culture and socio economics has everything to do with it. I don't know where you come up with the plethora of numbers you are crunching here, but it's offensive to all to even suggest that "black men suffer a pathology of neglect". I have two very close friends who happen to be black and happen to be dada and it doesn't get better than them as people and dada. But creating a reality that makes you comfortable but has nothing to do with facts, does not help guys like my two friends. Quit it with Us against Them. They don't define themselves as victims in the world, why are you doing so? I'm white, so I'm certain I'll be accused of living in a bubble with a token black friend, (untrue as it may be. I know dozens of black people, they aren't all best friends naturally) Because of my skin color, I'll be accused by people who never met me of not understanding "black men". So, I'll stick to facts in my life. I find your pseudo racial activism patronizing, and insulting to two guys who mean a lot to me, the two best fathers I know. Two guys who long ago I stopped seeing as black, but as great friends who I'd trust my life with.
154
Mass incarceration due to drug arrests have disproportionately affected the poor African American urban communities. Now that it is starting to hurt poor, white, rural communities due to Meth and Heroin usage, our government is looking at the fairness of mandatory minimum sentences finding sympathy for addicts, and looking for alternative solutions. Our criminal justice system is hardly a great example of a fair and unbiased system for African-Americans. It isn't an us against them setup, it is simply the result of the implicit bias that is buried in a population that lives in an historically racist society.
10
So, we should ignore actual statistics and base public policy on your two dozen or so black acquaintances? All righty then.
7
You assume that most people arrested and convicted are guilty. Recent studies have demonstrated that up to 5% of people in prison are innocent. That's roughly 120,000 people out of a 2.4M prison populatoin. Another fact is that prosecutors and judges routinely issue significantly higher sentences to black defendants than to white defendants for the same offense. The federal sentencing guidelines still require 10x the amount of powder cocaine (favored by whites) to achieve the same sentence as crack cocaine (favored by blacks). Numerous studies have shown that whites use drugs at the same or higher rates than blacks, but are arrested and imprisoned at much lower rates. And "prosecutorial discretion" leads to slaps on the wrist for whites and heavy charges for Blacks.
36
It is sadly, time for a vacation Mr. Blow. Virtually nothing in this article resonates as reality. The New York Times editors have published a series of terrible articles since the start of 2015. In fact, in my nearly 25 years reading the New York Times, it almost seems that anything dealing with race or politics seems forced, almost desperate, which ultimately, makes a lot of sense since the presidency of Barak Obama has been a failure on so many levels, damage that we are only scratching the surface with present day. I used to open the times and be excited about the many different articles and the seemingly even balance views associated with those articles, now its, "ugh, not again" and on to the travel section.
216
"the presidency of Barak [sic] Obama has been a failure on so many levels,"
Sorry, I no longer except blanket statements like this without something to back it up. Please provide a detailed analysis backed up by statistics of this so-called faliure.
Sorry, I no longer except blanket statements like this without something to back it up. Please provide a detailed analysis backed up by statistics of this so-called faliure.
4
And as John Stewart said (more or less), you think you're tired of hearing how bad it is to be black in the USA, try LIVING it every day.
It's a horrible shame that so many NYT readers have recommended this, and other similar comments. You really have no idea. Maybe it's time to start listening to what black people really have to say.
As for the "failure" of Obama's presidency, here's an idea: try comparing it, facts and figures and all, with the guy he replaced.
It's a horrible shame that so many NYT readers have recommended this, and other similar comments. You really have no idea. Maybe it's time to start listening to what black people really have to say.
As for the "failure" of Obama's presidency, here's an idea: try comparing it, facts and figures and all, with the guy he replaced.
3
Do you see that?! See all the recommends it got? My black friend told me in 2008 "We deserve a President"."Sure you do" I said "but not this one He will leave you in an even deeper hole than before."
1
There is an old saying "numbers don't lie, lairs make up numbers" The study referenced is based on interviews and not on observation. Did the researchers verify the facts or just go by the answers provided?
I do agree with the final statement, the 72% statistic is real, but I would modify the may be worrisome, to IT IS worrisome.
I do agree with the final statement, the 72% statistic is real, but I would modify the may be worrisome, to IT IS worrisome.
55
It would be interesting if Mr. Blow could try an experiment.
He could pick any high-profile black actor or athlete or celebrity. My personal pick would be Jay-Z, since he is the one who has done the most damage to black self-image, with his lyrics.
Mr. Blow could then say: "We're going to pick 10 black households in the inner city of New York, Chicago, Cleveland. Doesn't matter which - just choose. And then, over a 3-year period, we're going to try to make a difference. We're going to counter, within those households, the messaging that education is not cool, We're going to counter the messaging that speaking in street English is not cool. We're going to counter the messaging that acting in a polite manner is not cool."
He could add: "We're not going to try for some grandiose program where we're trying to reach hundreds or thousands. Just 10. Are you in?"
He could pick any high-profile black actor or athlete or celebrity. My personal pick would be Jay-Z, since he is the one who has done the most damage to black self-image, with his lyrics.
Mr. Blow could then say: "We're going to pick 10 black households in the inner city of New York, Chicago, Cleveland. Doesn't matter which - just choose. And then, over a 3-year period, we're going to try to make a difference. We're going to counter, within those households, the messaging that education is not cool, We're going to counter the messaging that speaking in street English is not cool. We're going to counter the messaging that acting in a polite manner is not cool."
He could add: "We're not going to try for some grandiose program where we're trying to reach hundreds or thousands. Just 10. Are you in?"
47
The idea that if black rappers just shut up everything would be hunky-dory in the black community is naive beyond belief.
Your comment ignores the huge problems of poverty, lack of employment opportunity, poor education based upon the funding of schools with property taxes, over-incarceration of blacks and black males in particular, etc.
However, it is a comfort for simplistic minds to think that if blacks just spoke "regular" English and were taught to be polite as defined by middle class whites, everything would be fixed.
Your comment ignores the huge problems of poverty, lack of employment opportunity, poor education based upon the funding of schools with property taxes, over-incarceration of blacks and black males in particular, etc.
However, it is a comfort for simplistic minds to think that if blacks just spoke "regular" English and were taught to be polite as defined by middle class whites, everything would be fixed.
1
I would be! Great idea.
These youths also need to pull their pants up. How can the broader community respect a youth who displays his buttocks in public?
1
Blow doesn't say so, but this assigning of blame for community dysfunction to black men lets policy makers off the hook when it comes to dealing with the attendant problem of poverty and the consequences poverty has on education. Republicans can claim that the ultimate cause of black family and community dysfunction is the result of poor moral choices on the part of black males. Democrats, adopting the Reagan perspective that "government is the problem" shy away from bold initiatives that might provide incentives for family unity or programs that provide direct assistance to children being raised in poverty. When it comes to education, both parties see issues outside of school as unimportant, preferring to blame educators for their inability to achieve uniform learning rates in the face of widely disparate family incomes and early childhood experiences. Poverty is NOT an acceptable excuse.
What kind of initiatives are needed to address the effects of poverty? Three changes would help immensely. First, schools and social service providers need to collaborate from the very outset of a child's life. Secondly, schooling needs to begin earlier. Third, schools should individualize instead of grouping and testing students in age-based cohorts.
What kind of initiatives are needed to address the effects of poverty? Three changes would help immensely. First, schools and social service providers need to collaborate from the very outset of a child's life. Secondly, schooling needs to begin earlier. Third, schools should individualize instead of grouping and testing students in age-based cohorts.
27
Behaviour is the key out of poverty.
But how will earlier and more involved schooling help those who do not value education and attack those who do for "acting white"?
I fear the baby-daddy/baby momma culture is a threat to our society be they white, black or whatever. Nothing beats mommy, daddy and the kids all pulling together.
163
Actually, nothing beats responsible family planning and access to free or low cost contraception. If you can't afford to put food on the table or pay off your credit cards, you can't afford to get pregnant. Why can't we ALL get behind supporting "Long Acting Reversible Contraception" -- one of the best ways to break the cycles of poverty and incarceration that plague too many of our communities. There's nothing partisan about that!
2
America needs fathers of all hues to be involved with their children from birth to adulthood.
100
and, to love and marry the mommies
1
Mr. Blow wants to replace one corrosive mythology, that of the missing black father, with another, that of "black dads are doing best of all."
His claim simply flies in the face of everyday experience felt by blacks and perceived by others, never mind his misinterpretation of statistics. There is no credible way to show that black fathers are doing better than all other ethnicities when black children are doing worst than all other ethnicities. Ask Obama about his "best" black father, he will tell you he was raised by his "not-so-best" white grandfather.
Blow thinks he is, but he is not doing any service for the black community by creating a lie, by burying the problem in dubious statistics.
His claim simply flies in the face of everyday experience felt by blacks and perceived by others, never mind his misinterpretation of statistics. There is no credible way to show that black fathers are doing better than all other ethnicities when black children are doing worst than all other ethnicities. Ask Obama about his "best" black father, he will tell you he was raised by his "not-so-best" white grandfather.
Blow thinks he is, but he is not doing any service for the black community by creating a lie, by burying the problem in dubious statistics.
304
Basing your conclusions on "everyday experience felt by blacks and perceived by others," and providing no statistics of your own makes your criticism of Mr. Blow's article that he is "creating a lie, by burying the problem in dubious statistics," a dubious claim in its own right.
2
Are you not relying on anecdotal accounts?
Blow knows all he is doing is blowing his own horn, teaching self serving behavior is one lesson no children need.
Mass incarceration does not just suck men out of the community like some random uncontrollable force of nature. Crime are committed, laws are violated, and the legal system adjudicates. Penalties could be softened but then who does that serve? Should higher crime be tolerated? Does that really help children?
And women are making a choice to have kids without marrying the fathers (who may not even consider marriage themselves). They are not tied to one person with all the legal implications and they do get better social service benefits by remaining single.
It's not dysfunctional so much as maladaptive to the larger society.
And women are making a choice to have kids without marrying the fathers (who may not even consider marriage themselves). They are not tied to one person with all the legal implications and they do get better social service benefits by remaining single.
It's not dysfunctional so much as maladaptive to the larger society.
136
"Crime are committed, laws are violated, and the legal system adjudicates."
Crimes are committed, and the laws are violated, but only some people go to jail or are even arrested when those crimes are committed. If we were policing white people the same way we police black people, a similar if not greater proportion of white people would be in jail.
And you might be too. Oh, you mean you've never jaywalked? Never driven more than 5 mph over the speed limit? Never been in a room where somebody had some pot? Never egged somebody's house? Never shoplifted a bit of extra candy as a kid? Never annoyed a police officer so that he was motivated to "find" something you weren't carrying? Never carried a weapon somewhere you shouldn't have?
Crimes are committed, and the laws are violated, but only some people go to jail or are even arrested when those crimes are committed. If we were policing white people the same way we police black people, a similar if not greater proportion of white people would be in jail.
And you might be too. Oh, you mean you've never jaywalked? Never driven more than 5 mph over the speed limit? Never been in a room where somebody had some pot? Never egged somebody's house? Never shoplifted a bit of extra candy as a kid? Never annoyed a police officer so that he was motivated to "find" something you weren't carrying? Never carried a weapon somewhere you shouldn't have?
41
In fact, in the absence of real opportunities for the inner city poor it is not unreasonable to assume that when unmarried fathers choose to live with their families it is to rely upon those 'social service benefits'. Especially when criminal activity does not present as an opportunity for profit. A sad cycle. Nonetheless, it is difficult to imagine that curbing the 'mass incarceration' of black men in these inner cities alone might be a solution.
1
If your theory held then young financiers should be in prison at a higher rate than Blacks. They break laws at a humongous rate but seem to never end up in prison. Cocaine and alcohol is offered at their parties and their offices, many leave intoxicated yet none or very very few of them seem to land in jail even when they have accidents and even when they kill other humans with their irresponsible behaviors, the so called Affluenza defense.
Many young blacks end up in jail be cause they smoked a joint or were drunk and disorderly. Then while in jail they learn the criminal culture. After they get our of jail they find they cannot get work so the criminal culture they learned in prison is the only way to survive. In an unequal society the lower classes are always blamed for their "criminality" while the upper classes' criminal actions are swept under the carpet. Look at GW Bush he was arrested for cocaine yet became president. Could you believe that a Black or even White, Hispanic or Asian poor person could become president if they had been arrested for such? No they would spend most of their lives in jail. It is inequality and poverty that causes most crimes.
As to benefits going to the unwed then it is society that selects against marriage not the poor. They do what the must to survive. Their actions are not maladaptive but adaptive to the oppression visited down upon them by the larger society.
Many young blacks end up in jail be cause they smoked a joint or were drunk and disorderly. Then while in jail they learn the criminal culture. After they get our of jail they find they cannot get work so the criminal culture they learned in prison is the only way to survive. In an unequal society the lower classes are always blamed for their "criminality" while the upper classes' criminal actions are swept under the carpet. Look at GW Bush he was arrested for cocaine yet became president. Could you believe that a Black or even White, Hispanic or Asian poor person could become president if they had been arrested for such? No they would spend most of their lives in jail. It is inequality and poverty that causes most crimes.
As to benefits going to the unwed then it is society that selects against marriage not the poor. They do what the must to survive. Their actions are not maladaptive but adaptive to the oppression visited down upon them by the larger society.
3
The concept of "serial impregnators" sounds close to evil, and at least immoral, until one realizes that the term applies not only to the much-maligned men who have an unmarried relationship of a few years with one woman, then move on to another... but also to men who marry one woman, live with her a few years, divorce, and marry another.
Quite a few highly regarded white politicians, media personalities, and business executives would fit the "serial impregnator" label, producing multiple children in the course of their disastrous series of marriages. Interesting that the term is so often used exclusively by white to describe black men.
Quite a few highly regarded white politicians, media personalities, and business executives would fit the "serial impregnator" label, producing multiple children in the course of their disastrous series of marriages. Interesting that the term is so often used exclusively by white to describe black men.
94
The difference being,of course, that these unnamed white politicians don't often leave their kids in poverty.
4
"Interesting that the term is so often used exclusively by white to describe black men."
That fits the axiom: "If you spot it, you got it!"
That fits the axiom: "If you spot it, you got it!"
1
But I would imagine that men who marry a woman and then divorce her would also pay child support unlike the black underclass serial impregnators.
3
Come on, Charles, serious people of any complexion don’t believe that blacks have some odd inherent genetic trait that causes them to abandon spouses and children in greater proportion than whites or anyone else. Serious people understand that we create economic conditions that marginalize men who have no roots in a community or stake in a society with productive values. You do this to white men in the proportions we do it to black men, you’ll have immense white abandonment too. The real argument is the eternal one: so long as we deny equivalent educational and social nurturing opportunities to blacks that we afford to whites, we’ll see lower levels of productive acculturation among our black communities than among our white ones. It ain’t rocket science, and it has nothing to do with genetics.
All the rest of this is sociology mumbo-jumbo about social contexts, except the argument about mass incarceration – that demonstrably is an artificial condition that actively destroys communities and that could be the most addressable evil. But we build a healthy society with tools that create in each of us a sense of personal obligations matched with the rewards that come from satisfying them … or we don’t. Every single day we fail at doing that in our black communities, and we see the persistent outcomes of that failure in the results.
All the rest of this is sociology mumbo-jumbo about social contexts, except the argument about mass incarceration – that demonstrably is an artificial condition that actively destroys communities and that could be the most addressable evil. But we build a healthy society with tools that create in each of us a sense of personal obligations matched with the rewards that come from satisfying them … or we don’t. Every single day we fail at doing that in our black communities, and we see the persistent outcomes of that failure in the results.
64
I wish that were true but I am consistently shocked by the number of people who do believe this, who do promote this idea even as they pretend not to be racist, or to think racism is a made up phenomena. I am even more shocked by the freedom of which people feel free to express these views.
22
As demonstrated by the fact that when economic dysfunction hits white rural communities, the same thing happens -- illegitimacy rates skyrocket and the population turns to illicit activities like drug manufacturing and sale. In a capitalist society, we measure worth by employment and income. When we allow economic opportunity to be taken from anyone (and access to a decent education is a part of that opportunity), we set ourselves up for large-scale societal dysfunction.
2
NSH:
I DID write "serious" people, who presumably constitute Charles's audience. One should consider the differences between "passengers" and "crew".
I DID write "serious" people, who presumably constitute Charles's audience. One should consider the differences between "passengers" and "crew".
The big problem here is not whether or not black fathers are good fathers, but whether or not there is a fair distribution of wealth. When most of the value in our economy is owned soley by a few hundred families, we have a big problem, black or white. I'm sure black fathers are the same as others, especially if they have the opportunity to hold good jobs and paricipate in the community. But too many are targeted for the prison systems and not the educational systems. They are cannon fodder if not prison workers. America needs to start earning its living actually serving society and not on making wars. We need to invest in our own populations instead of cleaning up messes after the wars of the neocons. Black fathers should not be the focus of this discussion. I'm sure they love their children just as much as anybody. The discussion should be about inequality, and the black community surely does feel that more than any demographic in the world. The big take away lesson of the 60's and 70's was that dramatic efforts to educate and mainstream ghetto kids through education did work. But then the windows of opportunities were slammed shut first by Reagan and then even more by Clinton. That's what we need to look at. Neoliberal policies are to blame, front and center.
48
We will find true happiness until we eliminate the ownership of private property. All wealth should be in the hands of one central government to distribute according to need. Only then will we be equal.
1
Actually the lessons of the 60s and 70s were that all the Great Society programs were devastating failures -- welfare, Head Start, bussing. (Surely you don't espouse bussing? The programs that devastated and hollowed out most American cities, leaving the majority of poor blacks isolated in ghettos?)
However, like most government failures, instead of rethinking this we continued for 50 years to throw more and more money at it. After all, the lefty liberal answer is always "you did not spend enough!" Since 1965, we have spent $22 TRILLION on fighting poverty, with the result that far fewer poor black families have married parents, the illegitimacy rate went from 7% to 72% and there are more people on welfare today than any other time in history. Drop out and unwed pregnancies are at record levels as well. By every metric, things are far far worse in 2015 than in 1965, and it is black CHILDREN who are taking the brunt of this.
However, like most government failures, instead of rethinking this we continued for 50 years to throw more and more money at it. After all, the lefty liberal answer is always "you did not spend enough!" Since 1965, we have spent $22 TRILLION on fighting poverty, with the result that far fewer poor black families have married parents, the illegitimacy rate went from 7% to 72% and there are more people on welfare today than any other time in history. Drop out and unwed pregnancies are at record levels as well. By every metric, things are far far worse in 2015 than in 1965, and it is black CHILDREN who are taking the brunt of this.
52
To Concerned Citizen, even if everything you have said in relation money spent fighting poverty were true, what economic policy would you advocate to counter it? Obviously those in poverty would benefit if they were gainfully employed and a robust economy would ideally provide jobs. Of course we off-shored all those jobs and squandered much of our resources on wars of choice. Perhaps we could tax cut our way to prosperity. No wait, we tried that. If tax cuts on the rich actually provided jobs, all of the poor would be working as maids, pool boys, and gardeners for the rich. Problem solved.
1
One thing that leads to noncustodial fathers is this, an unmarried mother with two children receives benefits that at least match if not exceed the amount they could make by working a full time job which is causing havoc in our schools and community. Until we find a way to educate people so they can earn a living and in turn make corporations pay living wages this will continue.
86
No, no... You must not ever make reference to Federal policies that do quantifiable damage to the family structure. Every penny of federal welfare spending is precious and to say otherwise is racist on it's face.
Mr Blow's excuse and rationalizations are far more important.
Mr Blow's excuse and rationalizations are far more important.
5
Most women would rather have the father of the children in the house. These are not decisions one makes solely for the benefits. People don't stay cohabited for the tax benefits nor do they choose to stay single for the welfare check. It is just that when a man makes too many poor decisions, whether it leads to incarceration, having multiple children from multiple women or incurable STD's he falls under her already low standards and she decides she is better off without him.
You have one thing backwards; first we must make corporation pay a living wage (as well as other missing facets of their corporate/civic contract), then we must make congress approve a massive infrastructure build, then we can put people to work and educate those who need it.
Jobs Jobs Jobs
Jobs Jobs Jobs
1
I share many views with Mr. Blow, but here I wonder what the reach is. Honor and fidelity are purely personal choices. Like having children, the best way to count them is one person at a time. The contortion of the data is meaningless.
115
Mr Blow is an intelligent writer but his column today has an undertone of "the statistics don't tell the full story". All columnists use favorable numbers to justify their positions and when those numbers don't tell them what they want to hear, they all tend to discuss the complexities of the situations.
I agree many unmarried but cohabitating couples are raising children together but that doesn't change the fact they are unmarried. A large portion of young, African American men are in jail or prison but yeah are still absent in the lives of their children. He mentions cohabitating African American couples tend to have higher pregnancy rates early on, which indicates an indifference to birth control rather than pure accident.
This column does nothing to advance any dialogue about the problem of absentee fathers in the African American community and is an exercise in dishonesty about the damages that have been wrought by a lack of stable households.
I agree many unmarried but cohabitating couples are raising children together but that doesn't change the fact they are unmarried. A large portion of young, African American men are in jail or prison but yeah are still absent in the lives of their children. He mentions cohabitating African American couples tend to have higher pregnancy rates early on, which indicates an indifference to birth control rather than pure accident.
This column does nothing to advance any dialogue about the problem of absentee fathers in the African American community and is an exercise in dishonesty about the damages that have been wrought by a lack of stable households.
321
It does advance the argument because it calls into question the accepted wisdom that African-American fathers are absentee. As to the statement about "indifference to birth control" that is a negative bias on your part. There is no reason to interpret children earlier on in cohabitation as indifference to birth control. It can mean a higher priority on having children (which is cultural true so no doubt plays a factor) or, not having adequate access or knowledge of birth control. Both those seem likely. Most people don't know enough about birth control, and religious institutions don't generally encourage this (Christianity and Islam are too big culprits here in regards to female sexuality and both are big players in the African-American community.) Additionally of course the most effective birth control is expensive and requires easy access to medical care. More African-Americans are poor than whites, more have inadequate access to medical care, ergo less access to birth control.
17
Not true. This column does advance the discussion of a complex problem. You assume indifference to birth control but say nothing about its availability or cost. Also, when people have opportunity, they delay childbirth. When we dump the poor and all our problems in neighborhoods with poor transportation, high crime, and few jobs, having a child is one joy we can't deprive them of.
1
Not only are all the measures of father involvement for fathers not living with their children equal among Blacks and Whites (except for a few where Whites actually fared better), THE STUDY DOESN'T INCLUDE INCARCERATED FATHERS. Given that Black fathers are about 5 times more likely to be incarcerated than White fathers (and includes about half a million fathers) the picture of Black father involvement is even that much more bleak.
2
I like Charles Blow, but I do think his paraphrase of the CDC result relies unduly upon a secondary source. Roughly: black fathers who live with their kids engage more (statistically, on some measures); black fathers who don't live with their kids engage more; but many fewer black fathers live with their kids, so overall they engage less. That suggests to me that, indeed, improving conditions for black men would be much more helpful than sermonizing about promiscuity and irresponsibility.
28
It is not however a myth that disproportionate number of single, young black women have babies relative to other groups.
And one very important factor you do not raise is access to contraception for this group - something married black women have.
Stop blaming and start donating to Family Planning.
And one very important factor you do not raise is access to contraception for this group - something married black women have.
Stop blaming and start donating to Family Planning.
175
All health care organizations set up for teens and young people providing free care give condoms away free. I see them in bowls on the counter. A couple of these organizations are run by our two local hospitals. In addition they are available at any Planned Parenthood clinic. They will prescribe birth control medications to anyone who asks. All they have to do is use it.
8
Poor women becoming pregnant early in the relationship to create an attachment from the male is a well documented phenomenon that transcends race. This has nothing to do with the availability of Birth control.
6
Anyone can buy condoms or Plan B at CVS.
3
An exercise in denial. Children lead disastrous lives in America and black children may have it worst of all. We need measures of maturity -- for men and women of all races -- that go beyond self-serving anecdotes.
248
One error in your thesis is that there are more "poor" whites than there are "poor" blacks, and yet there don't seem to be the problems with birth control in the "poor white community" that are seen in the "poor black community".
If one were to accept your premise, one would expect to see an epidemic of far greater in the white community of the same sort of dysfunction as in the black.
Are you willing to explain the anomaly?
If one were to accept your premise, one would expect to see an epidemic of far greater in the white community of the same sort of dysfunction as in the black.
Are you willing to explain the anomaly?
3
Wow, just when I thought Charles Blow couldn't lose any more credibility...
Read the CDC source from which these statistics were cherry-picked from (and then misrepresented). Only 20% of white men who have kids live apart from them. Nearly 50% of black men who have kids live apart from them. The author conveniently dodges the most obvious and telling statistic.
Read the CDC source from which these statistics were cherry-picked from (and then misrepresented). Only 20% of white men who have kids live apart from them. Nearly 50% of black men who have kids live apart from them. The author conveniently dodges the most obvious and telling statistic.
388
However, in the report (and I read it) the African-American men who lived apart from their children were still actively involved in their life, unlike the white men who lived apart who very much were not. Additionally, living with their children did not ensure that white men were involved in their children's lives.
28
You may want to read the tables more carefully. For EVERY measure of father involvement where the father wasn't living at home, White fathers were more involved or equally involved (given corresponding confidence intervals) as Black Fathers. Not even close to your claim that, "African-American men who lived apart from their children were still actively involved in their life, unlike the white men who lived apart who very much were not." And again, that doesn't account for the fact that Black Fathers are more than twice as likely not to live with their child than White Fathers.
If you want, I can post all of those figures here, or even better, readers can review the original tables here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf
If you want, I can post all of those figures here, or even better, readers can review the original tables here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf
10
..."were still actively involved in their life"? Does this including paying for their care and making sure the children get a proper education? I think not! Society pays for these children.
11
Whenever Charles Blow makes the signal decision to abandon race as a basis for his discourse, I will accord him the full attention he deserves. Until then, as long as everything he writes is predicated as part of the "we-they" dichotomy on the basis of color, I will have to dismiss what he says. Because the real issue has become, perhaps always was, the division between the income levels and economic classes. The real explosion in the USA is going to occur because of income and wealth disparity, not because of race. It's time this columnist gets in alignment with that reality.
171
I see. And when were poor whites enslaved? Were they forbidden to use even the same bathrooms? Were neighborhoods in which poor whites lived deemed high risk and thus worthy of very high interest rates simply for living there? Were they lynched as a form of social terror? Were their neighborhoods burned to the ground when they became prosperous? Were/are they used as the face of entitlement in political ads? Were/are they profiled and killed by the police at disproportionate rates? Class matters in America yes. But race matters also matters and it can work not just on its own but to ensure one is in the lowest class. Anyone who denies this reality with the cry it is really all about class, is using class as an excuse to deny the history of this country. To refuse to listen to Mr. Blow's experience of the world, one you do not have, (not simply to differ on some points) shows that clearly you think you are above him, that your view matters more. Race doesn't matter uh?
19
Poor kids in Appalachia -- born to unwed mothers, and raised on generational welfare -- without a father present in the home -- do every bit as poorly as any black child growing up in the inner city.
In fact, there are MORE poor white kids, and they do every bit as bad, if not worse, by every metric (graduating from high school, crime, drug use, etc.).
So making this all about skin pigmentation is a false narrative.
In fact, there are MORE poor white kids, and they do every bit as bad, if not worse, by every metric (graduating from high school, crime, drug use, etc.).
So making this all about skin pigmentation is a false narrative.
33
Well, that takes care of American history in one tidy paragraph, doesn't it? So, in other words, those tens of thousands of sweet black children who were maybe walking down a dirt road one hot afternoon and wound up swinging from trees ("with blood on the roots") didn't have Charles Schwab trust funds and that's why they were lynched? Eh?
1
It is interesting to point out the "family values" of several White exemplars and heroes of the Republican Party. Clint Eastwood is deemed so important to the GOP that he was given a key speaking position at the RNC National Convention. Eastwood has 8 children from 6 women, only three of the children coming within wedlock. Te d Nugent is brought to the State of the Union address as the invited guest of Republicans and is close to GOP presidential candidates. Nugent has 8 kids but only 3 are from wives.Then there is the 2008 GOP Vice Presidential nominee. One of her daughters is famously an unwed mother. Her oldest son married his pregnant girlfriend and divorced her not long after the wedding. Ah, those WHITE Republican values and lifestyles.
261
What's your point? I'm sure the same could be said about numerous democrat entertainers.
2
yea, but i bet their kids are not on welfare
7
How many of these evil white mens' kids you mentioned are assaulting, raping our killing anyone? Drive by shootings? Etc...
4
One day genetic researchers will discover a marker deep in the American DNA that instills a perception of the big bad black man. II'm not proud of it, but I know I have it, and a lifetime of conscious effort hasn't completely suppressed those base instincts - in spite of that fact that, politically, I'm about as liberal as they come.
Mr. Blow, understandably from his position, delicately sidesteps a big part of the issue, which is that even liberal, progressive people accept the statistics at face value and help perpetuate the myths. It's not just the bigots on the right. I have heard analogues of "if only black men would marry the women they have babies with..." come out of plenty of progressive mouths. And progressive ears most certainly do not want to hear that a genuine desire to help those poor black people is an effective mask for a deep subconscious perception that black people are different.
It can't be easy being a black parent in today's America, where even those who want them to succeed believe they are prone to fail. And defaulting to the "national conversation on race" - which will never really happen - won't change perceptions.
Real change that removes situational impediments (ending mass incarceration, getting guns off the street, providing quality "urban" education...) will alter statistics, allowing black dads to prove that they really are doing best of all, and that nasty DNA marker will slowly wither away.
Mr. Blow, understandably from his position, delicately sidesteps a big part of the issue, which is that even liberal, progressive people accept the statistics at face value and help perpetuate the myths. It's not just the bigots on the right. I have heard analogues of "if only black men would marry the women they have babies with..." come out of plenty of progressive mouths. And progressive ears most certainly do not want to hear that a genuine desire to help those poor black people is an effective mask for a deep subconscious perception that black people are different.
It can't be easy being a black parent in today's America, where even those who want them to succeed believe they are prone to fail. And defaulting to the "national conversation on race" - which will never really happen - won't change perceptions.
Real change that removes situational impediments (ending mass incarceration, getting guns off the street, providing quality "urban" education...) will alter statistics, allowing black dads to prove that they really are doing best of all, and that nasty DNA marker will slowly wither away.
24
One day we will realize that there is no such thing as "black" and "white" except as socio-economic constructs. When I was very young, a girl from Dominica, very dark skinned, sat beside me in grade 1. I asked her why her skin was so brown, she said she didn't know but thought it was because she was from a hot country. Made sense to me, didn't give it another thought. I lived in a small town in a mostly rural part of Ontario. But Michigan television was available to us, so we watched the Jackson 5 and Fat Albert, Scooby Doo and Sesame Street. Muhammed Ali was a sports hero, as were OJ Simpson, Joe Namath, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabar, and Meadowlark Lemon. And Stan Makita, Guy Lafleur, Catfish Hunter, Pete Rose, Hank Aaron. We listened to Bob Seger and The O'Jays, Donny Osmond and Michael Jackson. "Race" didn't matter at all.
Then as I grew up I was taught prejudice; not so much against "blacks", but in a most ugly form against East Indians and Pakistanis. After all, they had unfamilar accents and strange food; blacks on TV and in my town (all three of them) ate the same food, dressed the same, talked the same, went to the same schools. They were like us. UK immigrant kids got a rough ride because they talked differently.
Then the onslaught of stereotypes, no doubt due to media exposure; Jamaicans were gun-toting gangsters, blacks in the U.S. were heroin pushers and users, lived in ghettos and were, in any event, dangerous. Prejudice is not inherent.
Then as I grew up I was taught prejudice; not so much against "blacks", but in a most ugly form against East Indians and Pakistanis. After all, they had unfamilar accents and strange food; blacks on TV and in my town (all three of them) ate the same food, dressed the same, talked the same, went to the same schools. They were like us. UK immigrant kids got a rough ride because they talked differently.
Then the onslaught of stereotypes, no doubt due to media exposure; Jamaicans were gun-toting gangsters, blacks in the U.S. were heroin pushers and users, lived in ghettos and were, in any event, dangerous. Prejudice is not inherent.
2
Ugh... No-one wants them to fall. What possible motive could these terrible white people possibly have for rooting for the continuation of the dysfunction prevalent in the black community. Who do you think posts the taxes to clean up after these messes are created? Why would any rational person want that to continue? Unless one party's electoral chances were predicated upon making blacks believe they can't do any better. Hmmmm.......
5
It's the culture we're raised in from the moment we take our first breath. There is no genetic constraint. And we are having a national conversation on race, and this forum, right here right now, is part of it.
1
Lack of resources and the ensuing stress that's created can lead to worse problems than absence. I'm reminded of the song, Fast Car by Tracy Chapman!
4
I'm glad Charles addressed the "Black dad" issue today. I've been given to providing Think Progress' statistics from the same CDC study Charles quotes here that debunks the myth of the missing Black father. It also debunks the myth of the uncaring Black father, as well as the uninvolved Black father, etc. To suggest that an entire group of people carry in them a character flaw, be they Blacks, Jews, Arabs, or Norwegians, is a proposition that is inherently racist. When it comes to denigrating Blackness, America has elevated it to an art form. I suppose it is a part of our national heritage; the part that we have yet to confront and appropriately deal with. The part that we keep hidden from our young, by way of providing them with the kind of education that informs them of our past, fully. The part that we keep hidden from our young by not promoting greater introspection and analysis of who we are, as the different groups that make up America, and each other as compatriots. And so, for as long as we don't know ourselves and we don't know each other, we will continue along the path of division and recrimination; a path that is littered with discrimination, hate, and bloodshed to this very day.
James Baldwin, American writer, thinker, and civil rights leader debated William F. Buckley at Cambridge in 1965 and won. Please listen to his speech. Think about what remains the same.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/06/transcript-james-baldwin-debates-willia...
James Baldwin, American writer, thinker, and civil rights leader debated William F. Buckley at Cambridge in 1965 and won. Please listen to his speech. Think about what remains the same.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/06/transcript-james-baldwin-debates-willia...
32
I will add one additional point of data to what Charles provides in his op-ed, by way of David A. Graham of The Atlantic:
"But what about mortality rates? It’s not something that enters the political discussion much, but a new paper, “Black lives matter: Differential mortality and the racial composition of the U.S. electorate, 1970-2004,” argues that the racial gap in mortality rates could have a major impact on national politics.
The premise of the paper, by researchers at Mathematica Policy Research, the University of Michigan, Stanford, and Oxford, is simple: Unless you live in Chicago, you can’t vote when you’re dead. Since overall black health outcomes are worse than white ones, and life expectancies are lower for black Americans, that must have an effect on the results of elections. The team crunched the numbers from 1970 to 2004 and calculated “excess deaths” among African Americans:
The total number of black deaths would have been reduced from 8.5 million to 5.8 million if blacks faced the same mortality schedules as whites. Thus, 1 out of every 3 black deaths occurring within this time period was an excess death.
Of the 2.7 million black excess deaths, we project a total of 1.87 million hypothetical survivors to 2004, 1.74 million of voting age, about 1 million of whom would have been voters."
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/a-million-missing-bl...
"But what about mortality rates? It’s not something that enters the political discussion much, but a new paper, “Black lives matter: Differential mortality and the racial composition of the U.S. electorate, 1970-2004,” argues that the racial gap in mortality rates could have a major impact on national politics.
The premise of the paper, by researchers at Mathematica Policy Research, the University of Michigan, Stanford, and Oxford, is simple: Unless you live in Chicago, you can’t vote when you’re dead. Since overall black health outcomes are worse than white ones, and life expectancies are lower for black Americans, that must have an effect on the results of elections. The team crunched the numbers from 1970 to 2004 and calculated “excess deaths” among African Americans:
The total number of black deaths would have been reduced from 8.5 million to 5.8 million if blacks faced the same mortality schedules as whites. Thus, 1 out of every 3 black deaths occurring within this time period was an excess death.
Of the 2.7 million black excess deaths, we project a total of 1.87 million hypothetical survivors to 2004, 1.74 million of voting age, about 1 million of whom would have been voters."
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/a-million-missing-bl...
15
Khalief Browder was taken off the streets at 16 after school one day, on some trumped up charge about a stolen backpack and went on to spend three years, mostly in solitary, at Rikers without a trial. He was finally let go, no charges. He committed suicide yesterday.
RIP, Khalief Browder!
I blogged about him here a few weeks ago.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/04/kaliefbrowder-a-desaparecido-in-jimcrow...
The New Yorker's Jennifer Gonnerman's final piece on Browder:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder-1993-2015?mbid=so...
The Marshall Project, Bill Keller's new publication, put this out about the continued solitary confinement at Rikers, in spite of the law:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/06/02/who-runs-rikers
RIP, Khalief Browder!
I blogged about him here a few weeks ago.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/04/kaliefbrowder-a-desaparecido-in-jimcrow...
The New Yorker's Jennifer Gonnerman's final piece on Browder:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder-1993-2015?mbid=so...
The Marshall Project, Bill Keller's new publication, put this out about the continued solitary confinement at Rikers, in spite of the law:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/06/02/who-runs-rikers
15
Rima, that's is a fair point but if you really want to go down that road you should consider what the unconscionable black abortion rate, abetted by the democratic party,does do electoral clout. Lots of black babies missing because democrats convince their parents they can't do any better.
3