While I certainly agree that there are myriad racially loaded constructs to news coverage of violence and, indeed, other social ills (compare the coverage of inner city heroin addiction to that of the recent spread of heroin in white areas due to pain killer abuse), I don't see a huge presence of that here. What happened with the bikers was more like two drug gangs shooting it out, aiming to do damage to each other, no one else. If the bikers had burned down the restaurant and looted stores in the shopping center there, I expect the terminology used by the media would have been quite different.
The tragedy is that such shootouts take place all the time with little media attention. In the weeks since the disturbances in Baltimore, there has been almost a murder a day. Most of them are victims of drug turf wars of some sort or another. That is many more than died in Waco, yet their deaths go almost unnoticed by the media, certainly outside of Baltimore. All of us who mourn Freddie Gray must mourn these young men as well. Because all lives matter.
The tragedy is that such shootouts take place all the time with little media attention. In the weeks since the disturbances in Baltimore, there has been almost a murder a day. Most of them are victims of drug turf wars of some sort or another. That is many more than died in Waco, yet their deaths go almost unnoticed by the media, certainly outside of Baltimore. All of us who mourn Freddie Gray must mourn these young men as well. Because all lives matter.
17
Motorcycle gang violence is senseless and unprovoked. Black protest violence is a reaction to perceived wrongs. Few of us advocate violence. But unprovoked violence is the worst kind. I find the motorcycle gangs a lot scarier than the protestors.
16
As someone who thinks the Ferguson rioters were thugs, I also think the Waco bikers are thugs. Stop being so paranoid about race, Charles. If the Boston bomber had been black, you'd be claiming we wanted to execute him because he was black. People really don't care about skin color when it comes to crime. The shop owner in Ferguson really doesn't care what the skin color is of the rioter trying to break into his store, beat him up and destroy his business. The only real difference between the Ferguson rioters and the Waco bikers is at least the bikers were only attacking each other, not innocent people. In a way, I wish there were a way we could let the (white) Waco bikers kill each other without intervening; less thugs overall. You are right, however, that we stop romanticizing any such crime. They're bad people, period.
58
See how the black and liberal media frames the death of Yankel Rosenbaum vs Trayvon Martin. There is a double standard for you Charles.
34
I lean to agree with Charles M. Blow on this issue, but it reminds of something I once read about French people being rude - that they're just as nasty to each other as they are to foreigners. I don't think most people understand how nasty white people are to each other, and how quick they are to discriminate and judge and downgrade based on an infinite number of factors. Lawn care, food, car make, hairstyle, hometown - you name it - a white person can pick apart any difference to compete for status. The men arrested in Waco might be getting a couple of romantic monikers, but they'll be treated with prejudice just because of where they're from, how they look, where they were arrested, and who they were with. Prejudice that they've dealt with all their lives. It's not equivalent to racism, but it isn't a walk in the park either.
5
By trying to compare what happened in Waco to the outrageous shootings of black men by white policemen is a stretch. The selection of words used to describe the event as compared to the verbiage describing the police shootings is just happenstance. I am, however, in favor of keeping the national dialog against racism in the forefront.
The media at large and all of us need to start holding police to a higher standard. I want them to protect me, not shoot at me. As people, we need to demand from our news and television media that they speak out. When a crime is committed because of race, say so. When a policeman shoots an unarmed black man serious questions should be asked on behalf of the people the media serves. Good policemen and women are not served by racism within their ranks. None of us are.
The media at large and all of us need to start holding police to a higher standard. I want them to protect me, not shoot at me. As people, we need to demand from our news and television media that they speak out. When a crime is committed because of race, say so. When a policeman shoots an unarmed black man serious questions should be asked on behalf of the people the media serves. Good policemen and women are not served by racism within their ranks. None of us are.
5
This is the indictment that our so-called news media has been busy earning for themselves for far too long. It is the effete media of an effete society which coddles itself while its absurd "life" style destroys the very source of the only life we know to exist. Quit explaining things to us as though we are the idiots you prefer to pander to. Start some movement. Take some stand. Go for something besides a competitive edge in "the media market". Learn to call it as it is. Come on New York Times let's take on this dystopian, racist mess and stop just observing it from the sidelines. Get down, get dirty and funky and make a change.
4
The word "thug" comes from "Thuggees," bands of highwaymen assassins who traveled around South Asia in the middle of the last millennium. They were eliminated by the British colonialists in the nineteenth century. While etymology cannot delimit the subsequent senses of a word, we might say that the motorcycle gangs are closer to the type of group referred to by the original meaning of the term. But the Thuggees were also a non-white group feared by the British, hence the term has something of a consistent racial connotation in English usage.
4
A "biker gang" is by definition filled with thugs; to use that word in the Waco case in conjunction with "biker gang" would be redundant.
Since the black residents of Ferguson or Baltimore are not, by definition, thugs, to use that term to describe those who, by their looting and rioting behavior, acting as thugs, was relevant.
If Mr. Blow is advocating that we be redundant and call the non-black biker gangs in Waco "thugs" so that the thugs in Ferguson and Baltimore won't have their feelings hurt, then he's adding to the problems we already have with rioting, looting thugs and biker gangs.
Since the black residents of Ferguson or Baltimore are not, by definition, thugs, to use that term to describe those who, by their looting and rioting behavior, acting as thugs, was relevant.
If Mr. Blow is advocating that we be redundant and call the non-black biker gangs in Waco "thugs" so that the thugs in Ferguson and Baltimore won't have their feelings hurt, then he's adding to the problems we already have with rioting, looting thugs and biker gangs.
27
There are endless opportunities to point out valid examples of racial injustice. The Waco biker gangsters reports clearly do not qualify as such.
Mr. Blow's analysis is a plainly preposterous overreach and damages his very credibility.
Mr. Blow's analysis is a plainly preposterous overreach and damages his very credibility.
46
Beautiful column Mr. Blow. Thank you.
3
Charles: You missed it. These were criminals killing each other. The people breaking and destroying other people's property are "thugs", whether white or black.
44
I have one big problem with this article, that the motorcycle gang members are automatically assumed to be white, we don't even know who the 170 arrested were. Many motorcycle gangs are heavily hispanic, be they technically white or not, there are gangs that are black, so how this comes off to be a black and white issue I don't know.
I understand where Blow is coming from, he is right that the bloviating right when there is an issue with violence or ill behavior in the black community, it is because of the 'breakdown in the inner city family' and other such things. However, when there were riots at the G5 meeting, where most of the rioters were white kids, you heard similar things thrown at the kids doing it, they were anarchists, thugs, a mob, a lynch mob, punks, and so forth.....
There also is a difference between a motorcycle gang and a motorcycle club. Most motorcycle clubs are not illegal, lot of them are full of professionals and such who simply love to ride their bikes together, go on runs and such, there are clubs full of vietnam vets, ex Marines, you name it, and they aren't the least bit related to the Hell's angels or the Banditos or Cossacks or whatnot, other than they ride bikes. It is a tall order to say that calling them outlaw bikers or gangs makes them more romantic, while it is true that there is romantic fiction about biker gangs, there also is romantic fiction around pirates, who most people know what they were, violent men. This one is a miss.
I understand where Blow is coming from, he is right that the bloviating right when there is an issue with violence or ill behavior in the black community, it is because of the 'breakdown in the inner city family' and other such things. However, when there were riots at the G5 meeting, where most of the rioters were white kids, you heard similar things thrown at the kids doing it, they were anarchists, thugs, a mob, a lynch mob, punks, and so forth.....
There also is a difference between a motorcycle gang and a motorcycle club. Most motorcycle clubs are not illegal, lot of them are full of professionals and such who simply love to ride their bikes together, go on runs and such, there are clubs full of vietnam vets, ex Marines, you name it, and they aren't the least bit related to the Hell's angels or the Banditos or Cossacks or whatnot, other than they ride bikes. It is a tall order to say that calling them outlaw bikers or gangs makes them more romantic, while it is true that there is romantic fiction about biker gangs, there also is romantic fiction around pirates, who most people know what they were, violent men. This one is a miss.
20
Thug, a common criminal, who treats others violently and roughly. (wikipedia)
I notice various hip-hop groups have adopted 'thug' in their titles.
Criticize them for glamorizing the word.
Black on Black violent crime is the problem. If that was curtailed substantially you could reduce the need for so many police officers.
I notice various hip-hop groups have adopted 'thug' in their titles.
Criticize them for glamorizing the word.
Black on Black violent crime is the problem. If that was curtailed substantially you could reduce the need for so many police officers.
15
It would be better to wait until there is enough evidence to make a persuasive case. Three news events do not a case make.
5
I have struggled in vain to find a column by Mr. Blow remarking on police assault on whites, or on the fact blacks are more likely to assault whites than the reverse.
I expected this column of course, which skirts over the fact black/hip hop culture celebrates the word "thug" [Tupac had that tattoed across his abdomen] in a way which has cemented it to be associated with black culture.
I'm not sure why Mr. Blow thinks "biker gang" is suddenly romantic.
I could take Mr. Blow more seriously were he not Sharptonian in his ability to evaluate the country and the culture.
I expected this column of course, which skirts over the fact black/hip hop culture celebrates the word "thug" [Tupac had that tattoed across his abdomen] in a way which has cemented it to be associated with black culture.
I'm not sure why Mr. Blow thinks "biker gang" is suddenly romantic.
I could take Mr. Blow more seriously were he not Sharptonian in his ability to evaluate the country and the culture.
22
How many people rioted, looted, burned buildings, etc. because the local police killed some leather clad white men and arrested over 100 with million dollar bonds for each? How many people marched in the streets in Texas chanting that change was needed because white lives didn't seem to matter to the police? Gang member, thug, violent criminal, etc. could all be used to describe some of these guys at any given point in time maybe with little concern to most of us. What a waste of ink this article has been trying to make a case where there is none.
33
Mr Blow .... Maybe I missed them, but subsequent to the mass arrest of the white biker thugs were there any burned out buildings and local businesses in Waco? Any injured police officers by stone throwing rioters?
27
Mr. Blow, I agree that the media descriptions of the violence in Waco has been markedly different from the descriptions of the violent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore. However, I submit that it is because they were markedly different situations.
In Waco, we had a single incident of violence breaking out between rival criminal gangs. Nine people were killed, the police responded (and were attacked by those resisting arrest), and the situation was contained. The surrounding community did not get involved, and, I suspect, breathed a collective sigh of relief that the incident was over.
In contrast, the violent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore were not isolated fights between criminal gangs. The participants were part of the supposedly law-abiding surrounding community, who started tearing up their own neighborhood.
If you want to compare the Waco coverage to something, then find an analogous incident. Perhaps a gang war between the Bloods and the Crips, or the Surenos and ... whoever they're fighting these days? I suspect you'll see much more similar coverage.
In Waco, we had a single incident of violence breaking out between rival criminal gangs. Nine people were killed, the police responded (and were attacked by those resisting arrest), and the situation was contained. The surrounding community did not get involved, and, I suspect, breathed a collective sigh of relief that the incident was over.
In contrast, the violent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore were not isolated fights between criminal gangs. The participants were part of the supposedly law-abiding surrounding community, who started tearing up their own neighborhood.
If you want to compare the Waco coverage to something, then find an analogous incident. Perhaps a gang war between the Bloods and the Crips, or the Surenos and ... whoever they're fighting these days? I suspect you'll see much more similar coverage.
16
If Mr Blow would like to talk about discrepancies he could start with the description of Michael Brown brutally assaulting an diminutive elderly Asian shopkeeper as "shoplifting". Then you could move on to him walking in the middle of the road after the robbery and assault and refusing to move to the sidewalk as instructed by Officer Wilson. This is referred to as "jaywalking".
Then we could move on to mobs of blacks brutally attacking innocent people as "at risk youth" and "marginalized". Then we could talk about how the racial makeup of violence is obsessively emphasized in the media on every white on black incident but rarely mentioned on incidents of black on non-black. Then we could talk about the hundreds of incidents of black on non-black violence that never make the news but would be nationwide news if the racial makeup were the opposite. I have never heard any incident of white mobs targeting blacks as simply being random tomfoolery. Any condemnation of the 50 on 1 mob attack that occurred recently? Oh, I forgot, that doesn't fit the black victim complex industries agenda.
Then we could move on to mobs of blacks brutally attacking innocent people as "at risk youth" and "marginalized". Then we could talk about how the racial makeup of violence is obsessively emphasized in the media on every white on black incident but rarely mentioned on incidents of black on non-black. Then we could talk about the hundreds of incidents of black on non-black violence that never make the news but would be nationwide news if the racial makeup were the opposite. I have never heard any incident of white mobs targeting blacks as simply being random tomfoolery. Any condemnation of the 50 on 1 mob attack that occurred recently? Oh, I forgot, that doesn't fit the black victim complex industries agenda.
34
There's a darker aspect to this: protesters, who have committed no crimes at all, are having violence committed against them by the police with disconcerting frequency.
Contrast that to images of violent gunmen and murderers in Waco, casually texting on their phones while the police look like they're directing traffic.
If the bikers had been black they'd have been bleeding on the pavement, hands cuffed behind them. Or killed.
Contrast that to images of violent gunmen and murderers in Waco, casually texting on their phones while the police look like they're directing traffic.
If the bikers had been black they'd have been bleeding on the pavement, hands cuffed behind them. Or killed.
5
Mr. Blow is correct in having a debate over the use of the word thug and other code words especially in the media. It may be a useful way to encapsulate or demonstrate patterns of bias more broadly. It would be nice if we’re now all suddenly thinking a bit harder about how we use language with respect to the black community. Yet if we turn a centuries-long struggle for racial equality into a mere debate over linguistics, we’re missing the point.
Mr. Blow after a very wise person pointed out to me that all news is a "story" and essentially made up from a point of view to try to communicate something they do not completely understand using words that are imperfect at best, I have moved to retaining some level of doubt in all news reports. You comments just convince me to do this even more and to pay special attention to framing and metaphors.
However, I am curious as to what you think your evident intensity in this piece would evoke? Black people already know all of this and live it everyday. The few open-minded and aware people of other races also I think have figured this out. My feeling is just you are just emotionally worn out by all of this (understandable in light of what happened to your son on campus).
I think there is only one solution which Dr. King tried to point out: the human heart needs to change. Change in a way that we see ourselves in "the other" and move to a point of genuine compassion. This is done one heart at a time which is a very slow and frustrating process. I no longer see how we can get to high level system change at the community level because all the incentives at the person to person level suggest exclusion within a limited group. Look at Silicon Valley and the corruption in financial markets that show if you want to get ahead get in a closed group and shut the door behind you.
However, I am curious as to what you think your evident intensity in this piece would evoke? Black people already know all of this and live it everyday. The few open-minded and aware people of other races also I think have figured this out. My feeling is just you are just emotionally worn out by all of this (understandable in light of what happened to your son on campus).
I think there is only one solution which Dr. King tried to point out: the human heart needs to change. Change in a way that we see ourselves in "the other" and move to a point of genuine compassion. This is done one heart at a time which is a very slow and frustrating process. I no longer see how we can get to high level system change at the community level because all the incentives at the person to person level suggest exclusion within a limited group. Look at Silicon Valley and the corruption in financial markets that show if you want to get ahead get in a closed group and shut the door behind you.
1
Once a word that implies wrong or violent behavior is used to describe riots or wrongdoing by black men it seems to now be immediately associated with racial implications. Not so when the same word had previously been used for the conduct of predominantly white people "Thugs" has been used universally for generations. It applied to conduct without racial overtones until just recently and that racial association has only recently happened after the fact when the media made it so.
That phenomenon is probably the biggest indicator that our racial prejudice, especially by a small but significant segment of a shrinking white majority (soon to be a plurality and eventually a true minority) is far more deep seated and dangerously threatening than most have imagined since at least the mid 80s.
I for one thought, at least hoped we were past this as a nation but we are not.
I fear the problem will get worse before it gets better due to the changes occurring in our demographic makeup. Too many past entrenched "haves" are feeling more cornered and more threatened than ever before regardless of the reality of facts indicating there is little basis for that ill founded culturally associated fear.
The far right reaction to the election of Obama was like the canary in the coal mine where America was the coal mine. And like our coal mines, maybe we have shortchanged our safety and social infrastructure in the name of willing ignorance, cost cutting and a cultural deafness.
That phenomenon is probably the biggest indicator that our racial prejudice, especially by a small but significant segment of a shrinking white majority (soon to be a plurality and eventually a true minority) is far more deep seated and dangerously threatening than most have imagined since at least the mid 80s.
I for one thought, at least hoped we were past this as a nation but we are not.
I fear the problem will get worse before it gets better due to the changes occurring in our demographic makeup. Too many past entrenched "haves" are feeling more cornered and more threatened than ever before regardless of the reality of facts indicating there is little basis for that ill founded culturally associated fear.
The far right reaction to the election of Obama was like the canary in the coal mine where America was the coal mine. And like our coal mines, maybe we have shortchanged our safety and social infrastructure in the name of willing ignorance, cost cutting and a cultural deafness.
3
I'm Asian-American living in a majority Asian/Asian-American town in a Latino-plurality part of the country that is culturally distinct from Waco and St Louis, sites of these incidences, and the East Coast, home of the literati and punditry. I hope that establishes my "impartiality" credibility.
The "T" word has racial overtones. Coverage of St Louis was much more opinionated: One either blamed social oppression or blamed cultural shortcoming. I knew right away the protesters were mostly black. On the other hand, the coverage of Waco was more factually focused. I knew right away the gangsters were mostly white.
But in the end all this is like watching a "you started it" argument. Everyone is caught up in the rhetoric and no one really cares to resolve the underlying issues.
The "T" word has racial overtones. Coverage of St Louis was much more opinionated: One either blamed social oppression or blamed cultural shortcoming. I knew right away the protesters were mostly black. On the other hand, the coverage of Waco was more factually focused. I knew right away the gangsters were mostly white.
But in the end all this is like watching a "you started it" argument. Everyone is caught up in the rhetoric and no one really cares to resolve the underlying issues.
11
I get what Mr. Blow is saying in the general sense, and I think he's largely right with his thesis. There is indeed a double standard. But I think concentrating so much on one word may be a bit counterproductive in that it gives an easy out to people who might really benefit from thinking about these things.
In some of these comments I see an almost allergic or autonomic reaction, along the lines of "..what? That's not I mean when I use that word! You're completely wrong, pal--this is a non-issue!" The whole issue then degenerates into an argument over one word. Too bad for us all.
That all said, in the absence of the current focus on the racial aspect of the word, if asked to give an example of a consummate "thug" I would have cited Vladimir Putin. I believe I still would.
In some of these comments I see an almost allergic or autonomic reaction, along the lines of "..what? That's not I mean when I use that word! You're completely wrong, pal--this is a non-issue!" The whole issue then degenerates into an argument over one word. Too bad for us all.
That all said, in the absence of the current focus on the racial aspect of the word, if asked to give an example of a consummate "thug" I would have cited Vladimir Putin. I believe I still would.
5
It took black and white liberals 5 minutes to reach the conclusion that Trayvon's death was racially motivated injustice. It's been 25 years since Yankel Rosenbaum was hunted down by black racists for his race and what he was wearing on his head yet racial code phrases are employed to whitewash this. "Dispute between communities" "A black child and Jewish man died in a riot" "A Jewish man died in a scuffle". These are some of the dishonest phrases employed when describing this 3 days of black on Jewish hate crimes. Funny that blacks always bring up a black child died in a car accident to explain this event but never bring up the crimes blacks committed to explain white on black violence. If Blow would like to see bias look at his papers handling of the Crown Heights pogrom vs Stanford FL, Benhearst, and Howard Beach. There is a similar narrative of the black on Asian violence that is called the "LA riots".
20
But, but, but... but Obama and the black mayor were using the word "thugs," and they're both black. It is not white America that is the problem, either in the rioting or in the name calling. I believe this demonstrates how empty liberalism has become. Liberals rely upon their own supporters to fuel their outrage. Why must they resort to this? Because America is a pretty good, okay, not prefect, but a pretty good place.
I actually believe Blow is on the right track when he seeks to analyze the childhood home structures of biker gang members. My experience shooting pool for money with bikers in the rural Deep South is that they look tough to survive in a tough world. Respect that and get beyond it, and they're okay. But don't do it if you're black -- many bikers have given up on being nice to black people they don't know. Eight killed and a hundred wounded in a disagreement over a parking space? Sure, it's headlines, but it isn't news to anyone who knows anything about bikers.
One thing I don't understand is why Blow talks like only black people read the New York Times. There are tons of people who aren't black and who read the Times. Why does he use words like "we" and "our" when talking about brown skin color?
To a white reader like myself, Blow's words are very hurtful, marginalizing, and racist. Don't I, a white man, have a place viewing the pages of The New York Times? If so, why does the newspaper let Blow act in such racially insensitive ways?
I actually believe Blow is on the right track when he seeks to analyze the childhood home structures of biker gang members. My experience shooting pool for money with bikers in the rural Deep South is that they look tough to survive in a tough world. Respect that and get beyond it, and they're okay. But don't do it if you're black -- many bikers have given up on being nice to black people they don't know. Eight killed and a hundred wounded in a disagreement over a parking space? Sure, it's headlines, but it isn't news to anyone who knows anything about bikers.
One thing I don't understand is why Blow talks like only black people read the New York Times. There are tons of people who aren't black and who read the Times. Why does he use words like "we" and "our" when talking about brown skin color?
To a white reader like myself, Blow's words are very hurtful, marginalizing, and racist. Don't I, a white man, have a place viewing the pages of The New York Times? If so, why does the newspaper let Blow act in such racially insensitive ways?
18
Ask any hard working African American living in urban America whether they feel more of a threat from a biker gang or a criminal in their own neighborhood and what do you think the answer will be? As a previous commentor said, biker gangs (or thugs if you prefer) tend to limit their activity to their own and if anything, actively try to avoid drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. Because of this behavior, the tactic that law enforcement uses to deal with biker gangs or organized crime groups tends to be intelligence and informants. The violence that we see affecting our minority brothers and sisters in urban America tends to be at the hands of irrational violent criminals with no regard for consequences or the lives and property of others. The equivalent behavior we would see in nature is that of a rabid animal. The focus of law enforcement has to be to neutralize these sociopaths before they do further damage to the communities they stalk. Why do we try to understand the effect of broken family lives and environmental factors on criminal behavior in the African American community? Because we all know that there is no difference in the potential an African American can achieve compared to any other race and we want to find a way to help deal with the source of the issues wherever they exist to allow ALL of our children the opportunity to excel to the maximum of their potential.
13
One group terrorized each other the other group terrorized innocent hard working people and their businesses. Just a thought. Not everything has to be about race.
18
This is ridiculous. The term "motorcylce gangs" is a completely appropriate descriptive label for the perpetrators in Waco. It tells the reader or listener a lot of things that the term "thugs" wouldn't.
Mr. Blow, you have a problem.
Mr. Blow, you have a problem.
24
Obviously, they're all thugs.
14
You are reaching here, Blow. Even further than your usual stretch.
21
In Wisconsin, over the course of a year or two, teachers went from being important and underpaid caretakers/educators of our children to union thugs sucking at the public teat and getting health benefits that YOU don't get so their union must be destroyed. So, it was not exactly racial but the word thug was routinely used to help demonize them. Personal anecdote: My oldest daughter completed her student teaching requirement the month the Act 10 protests began, when Walker was considering (and then rejecting) inserting paid trouble makers into the protests (actual thugs). So, she completed her licensing requirements and left Wisconsin.
4
When you have an axe to grind, you'll grind it on anything.
These people were called what they are: criminals. Many of them were shot dead by the police. Nobody is complaining about that. There's your real lesson!
These people were called what they are: criminals. Many of them were shot dead by the police. Nobody is complaining about that. There's your real lesson!
20
great article, Mr. Blow.
4
I'm 64, and "thugs" has been used interchangeably for violent white and black criminals my entire life. One increasingly popular tabloid usage is for terrorists. The idea that it's some kind of racial code is odd and, I think, unfounded. We really do live on different planets...
29
Oh stop it. The bikers are thugs, and so were Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, and the rioters in Missouri and Baltimore.
29
The Nixonian policy of increasing racial divisions for political gain, commonly called Nixon's "Southern Strategy," is alive and well in all mass-market media run by conservatives. No surprise there, Mr. Blow.
1
Biker drama is self-imposed. Rapper drama is similar.
9
With this piece Mr.Blow demonstrates he has lost the ability to discern and therefore describe human suffering.
18
Quite a few people seem to believe that 'Thug' is a racial pejorative applicable to Blacks. My ancestors have always applied this appellation ( 'Takka' in Kannada, 'Thug' in Marathi...) to murderous god fearing mobile gang members who usually held very respectable day jobs and carried on thuggery as a choice. Hence calling these bikers Thugs is entirely appropriate - and connecting this to race is moot.
20
Sorry Charles, but the name "thug" (a hindi derivative, by the way), and its anti hero, heroic rebellion, has been adopted, and embraced by young black men and reenagers. Blame them. Its not anywhere like if some southern sheriff were to pronounce "N... criminals" etc.
Blame youth culture, not the media.
Blame youth culture, not the media.
21
But you are selective in the terminology you report. They were also called "vicious criminals". Less severe than "thugs"? I don't think so. It's a fair point that thugs has a racial connotation. The term is embraced by many in the hip hop community as a badge of honor and unfortunately some in the media fall into the trap of parroting that unfortunate term. But you cannot make the case that the bikers are being treated in a softer light. The cops fired on and killed several of them. They have described them in the harshest terms. Your article does nothing but pit people against each other. If the goal is to unite people in the fight for justice you fail miserably. If your goal is to promote a false narrative to divide people you succeed once again.
52
A number of pathologies seem to rear their heads here. The first, and original sin, is the demonization of blacks, and the pervasive subconscious stereotype of blacks as brutish, lazy, and lacking self-responsibility, a stereotype that cannot but be demoralizing, and paradoxically, may lead many to live up to the stereotype. (Ex: Rarely being given credit for hard work will lead a person to lose confidence that working hard is worth pursuing).
Another pathology is that of seeing slights where none exist -- when real slights become numerous enough that just about any criticism is likely to be seen through the lens of racism. This latter pathology, while being an understandable result of accumulated unearned insults, nonetheless poisons the possibility that some criticisms may be valid.
Richard Sherman started the "thug" meme when he, a person whose overall life is anything but thuggish, was characterized as a thug after an outburst on the field. The fact that a single action could so quickly become a total character judgment was deeply disturbing. But at the same time Sherman deftly sidestepped a valid criticism. Sherman is not a thug. But his antics were indeed the kind of violence-affirming antics that football players, black and white, and that soccer and football audiences, regardless of race or culture, are overly prone to. Instead of accepting that criticism, Sherman shrugged them off as just boys being pumped up. Bad antics got affirmed not faulted. That's a problem.
Another pathology is that of seeing slights where none exist -- when real slights become numerous enough that just about any criticism is likely to be seen through the lens of racism. This latter pathology, while being an understandable result of accumulated unearned insults, nonetheless poisons the possibility that some criticisms may be valid.
Richard Sherman started the "thug" meme when he, a person whose overall life is anything but thuggish, was characterized as a thug after an outburst on the field. The fact that a single action could so quickly become a total character judgment was deeply disturbing. But at the same time Sherman deftly sidestepped a valid criticism. Sherman is not a thug. But his antics were indeed the kind of violence-affirming antics that football players, black and white, and that soccer and football audiences, regardless of race or culture, are overly prone to. Instead of accepting that criticism, Sherman shrugged them off as just boys being pumped up. Bad antics got affirmed not faulted. That's a problem.
6
I usually like your column, Mr. Blow, but today I found it a bit meandering and a stretch to introduce race into an issue that has more to do with the 2nd Amendment in my mind. When I first read about the violence in Waco TEXAS, my first thought was, "Of course this would happen in Texas with it's open carry laws." I think Texas will see more of this kind of violence as a result of their gun laws and it may or may not have racial overtones. As for the biker gangs that caused the violence in Waco, I'd call them murderers and they should be punished to the full extent of the law. As for me, I'm staying away from that state if I can help it.
4
Powerful words. Thank you.
1
Mr. Blow, perhaps there was a "certain romanticism" about bikers when Marlon Brando starred in "the Wild Ones" back in 1953, but these days bikers look like the paunchy & dissipated Brando of his later years & no one envies their lifestyle (nor the women they tend to attract). Bikers are so generally disliked that even South Park devoted an episode to mocking them.
You'll also notice that so far no "biker rights leader" has shown up to organize an anti-police protest nor have any groups of white or Hispanic people gathered in the streets to defend these biker thugs. Indeed, if there were protests, I think they would be AGAINST the bikers and in support of the cops.
Now contrast this to your reaction to the elected black leaders (Obama & the Baltimore mayor) who called black people who burned & pillaged "thugs". You look for ways to defend & explain those who engaged in criminal behavior rather than acknowledging that some did indeed act like thugs. Everyone knows that beating a Korean store owner is an example of thuggery. Why don't you know this? Why do you quibble over words and not condemn the deed? And why do you think that denying specific instances of thuggery while engaging in rather logic-tortured semantic battles will help anything? How can you not realize that it will do precisely the opposite?
You'll also notice that so far no "biker rights leader" has shown up to organize an anti-police protest nor have any groups of white or Hispanic people gathered in the streets to defend these biker thugs. Indeed, if there were protests, I think they would be AGAINST the bikers and in support of the cops.
Now contrast this to your reaction to the elected black leaders (Obama & the Baltimore mayor) who called black people who burned & pillaged "thugs". You look for ways to defend & explain those who engaged in criminal behavior rather than acknowledging that some did indeed act like thugs. Everyone knows that beating a Korean store owner is an example of thuggery. Why don't you know this? Why do you quibble over words and not condemn the deed? And why do you think that denying specific instances of thuggery while engaging in rather logic-tortured semantic battles will help anything? How can you not realize that it will do precisely the opposite?
11
Perhaps it is not particularly useful to compare the Waco incident--in which criminals targeted criminals--to recent riots--in which people targeted non-criminal businesses and property. These situations differ from each other so significantly that it's problematic to extract meaningful conclusions from comparing them to each other.
9
Apples and oranges comparison.
Thugs steal from and loot innocent, random people. But the biker's violence was directed specifically at people involved in their internal dispute. If the bikers knocked off a walmart, the word thug may have been used as well.... who knows.
What we are really talking about here is an image created and propagated by Hollywood and popular entertainment media. It really is a reality/ fiction question. Look at hbo series like the wire and sons of anarchy to get a feel for it.
The semantics and labels in news media have much more to do with this than any influence of racial bias and white privilege.
This issue is worth thinking about, but opportunistic articles like this may be fanning the flames of a social problem that should be handled with more discretion in the news media.
Thugs steal from and loot innocent, random people. But the biker's violence was directed specifically at people involved in their internal dispute. If the bikers knocked off a walmart, the word thug may have been used as well.... who knows.
What we are really talking about here is an image created and propagated by Hollywood and popular entertainment media. It really is a reality/ fiction question. Look at hbo series like the wire and sons of anarchy to get a feel for it.
The semantics and labels in news media have much more to do with this than any influence of racial bias and white privilege.
This issue is worth thinking about, but opportunistic articles like this may be fanning the flames of a social problem that should be handled with more discretion in the news media.
4
The author provides evidence against his own thesis when he notes the President of the United States and the Mayor of Baltimore (both whom happen to be black) used the term “thugs” in describing the riots happening in Baltimore. Is he suggesting the President and this Mayor are both motivated by deep or even unconscious racial animus towards blacks by using this term? Is anyone who uses the term “thugs”, white or black, guilty of prejudice and perpetuating stereotypes against the black community? Well, I don’t think so. The President used the word “thugs” because it was appropriate– the rioters were acting like thugs (i.e., “brutal ruffians”)– which has no connotation of anything racial, sorry. One does not hesitate to use this word of whites. Or at least I never received the memo that this word when applied to blacks signifies that you are a racist.
9
Sad and stupid, really, that the media displays such a disparity in how they present the two different stories. I was not so aware of this, since I get most of my news from Vox.com and Rachel Maddow.
In the ending, you talk about how only love can conquer this hatred. I would add to this the idea of unconditional self-acceptance. I accept myself regardless of any real or imagined flaws I may have. And I don't feel that I am either inferior or superior to any other person.
In the ending, you talk about how only love can conquer this hatred. I would add to this the idea of unconditional self-acceptance. I accept myself regardless of any real or imagined flaws I may have. And I don't feel that I am either inferior or superior to any other person.
We can argue and discuss to high heaven and ask incessantly, why? how? what happened, unless we accept that we HAVE a serious problem will something come of it. The blatant dichotomy with it's bad repercussions is only inevitable, especially when the two exact situations are viewed diametrically opposite. There is a chasm between being a romantic and a thug, you know.
I hate to say it, Mr. Blow, but you are unfortunately focusing on the comments alone, and not any of the causal components. If you look at the numbers, it is clear that people of color are under-represented in the government, have statistically lower wages, and have a much greater likelihood of having come from a background of a broken family. These conclusions can be easily gleaned from many studies and population samples.
So, while I am far from disagreeing with you about the influence of racism in our society, some of the wording is based upon causal components of the violence, and may not be race - specific.
In addition, there is something to be said about gangs engaging in violence that is inwardly - directed, like the case in Waco, and indiscriminately outward - directed, like the case in Baltimore. While both violent, they are arguably of completely different natures, thus requiring different descriptors altogether.
So, while I am far from disagreeing with you about the influence of racism in our society, some of the wording is based upon causal components of the violence, and may not be race - specific.
In addition, there is something to be said about gangs engaging in violence that is inwardly - directed, like the case in Waco, and indiscriminately outward - directed, like the case in Baltimore. While both violent, they are arguably of completely different natures, thus requiring different descriptors altogether.
5
Mr. Blow, a thug by any other name is still a thug.
11
I am not an anthropologist, just an observer of my fellow beings, but here are some of my personal (and perhaps obvious) conclusions based on those observations: humans are communal animals, naturally formed into packs, or herds, or tribes, probably informed by ancient necessities for survival. This same survival instinct also breeds an innate fear of "the other," anyone who is not known within the definition of a given group, whether the group is called a gang, a club, a religion, a political party, a city, a state, a nation, a sorority, or any number of other affiliations. This fear amplifies perceived differences and breeds unwarranted anger as a defense mechanism, resulting in violence, either social, economic, or physical, in either personal, communal, or international conflicts. My one final conclusion from these observations is that we as human animals, in spite of moments of greatness, are a flawed species, and as such we will never be able to fully come to a universal peace with our own kind.
1
Baltimore demonstrators: called 'thugs.'
Waco bikers: arrested.
See the racism?
Waco bikers: arrested.
See the racism?
16
Demonstrators in Baltimore -- MANY OF THEM -- were ALSO arrested. You seem to be suggesting that they weren't and that this "fact" undermines Mr. Blow's argument. This excellent column should be food for thought; try making use of it in that way and maybe you'll make a little progress.
“…In Waco, the words used to describe the participants in a shootout so violent that a local police spokesman called the crime scene the bloodiest he had ever seen included “biker clubs,” “gangs” and “outlaw motorcycle gangs.”
While those words may be accurate, they lack the pathological markings of those used to describe protesters in places like Ferguson, Mo., and Baltimore. President Obama and the mayor of Baltimore were quick to use the loaded label “thugs” for the violent rioters there…
…Black violence stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people.
Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture...?”
---
Apples and oranges; gangs and protesters – though both committing criminal acts. ALL 170 arrested in Waco have been charged with murder. Not the case for the protesters arrested in Ferguson, Mo., and Baltimore.
Albeit the term “thugs” has become a common dysphemism in the non-black community yet the euphemism “thug” and often the “n-word” is bandied about in the [younger] black community colloquially; especially in rap and hip-hop.
Is society damned with no solution within reach?
While those words may be accurate, they lack the pathological markings of those used to describe protesters in places like Ferguson, Mo., and Baltimore. President Obama and the mayor of Baltimore were quick to use the loaded label “thugs” for the violent rioters there…
…Black violence stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people.
Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture...?”
---
Apples and oranges; gangs and protesters – though both committing criminal acts. ALL 170 arrested in Waco have been charged with murder. Not the case for the protesters arrested in Ferguson, Mo., and Baltimore.
Albeit the term “thugs” has become a common dysphemism in the non-black community yet the euphemism “thug” and often the “n-word” is bandied about in the [younger] black community colloquially; especially in rap and hip-hop.
Is society damned with no solution within reach?
3
We should remember that these motorcycle "thugs", and that is what they are, were trying to kill each other, and not burning and looting. In true thug fashion they fired at the police when confronted, but only then. To compare this situation to Baltimore does not follow logic.
9
Well, someone had to say this, and I am glad you did.
If this had been a Blank gang incident, *all* media formats would have had a screaming field day with this. It would have been a sign of a coming national apocalypse, or worse. The double standard is painfully striking.
If this had been a Blank gang incident, *all* media formats would have had a screaming field day with this. It would have been a sign of a coming national apocalypse, or worse. The double standard is painfully striking.
2
Tone, tenor? Does Mr Blow really need to go to such transparently manipulative but vague so their really meaning can't understood and separated from partisan emotion political campaign lengths attempting to garner more victim status for his "identity" group. And what ever votes that may gain for some politician hack like Hillary or Al Sharpton who care only about their bank accounts and if they can get a library named after themselves. Well since the author at least pretends to be intellectually challenged here's a hint that I am sure a few hundred commenters will offer regarding the biker riot. The idiot, violent, murderous, glorifiers of violence bikers targeted and killed and maimed mostly each other! And they were willing adult participants. They did not burn down whole neighborhoods and so draft women and children and innocent small business persons into the orgy of violence as most of these civil rights demonstration justified looting parties do. It amazes that with all the very real injustices in the world, and yes in the USA also - with our uber leaders importing 10s' of millions of slave-wage immigrants to kill wages for working class people here of all races ... it amazes that Mr Blow has to go around making up the equivalent of science fiction fantasy in order to fill NY Times column space and so get paid.
9
Yes, they are thugs.
Anyone who uses violence to get his way is a thug.
Anyone who uses violence to get his way is a thug.
15
The conservative media has been very consistent and they have rightly labelled these murderous bikers as thugs, goons, hoodlums and gang-members. They have also called for the death penalty for those convicted. They have not protested the harsh way, that included shooting to death, the police have responded to the riot. They have not second guessed the police or called them murderers or sent political activists masquerading as journalists to protest the police action. They have not incited the local community to go on a looting rampage to protest the way the cops ruthlessly put down the bikers.
7
Now that video shows the police fired most of the shots and are responsible for the deaths of all but one biker, do you still label the shooters as goons and thugs? Or, is it okay for a policeman to kill a man because he is part of a group gathered at one place notorious for biker gatherings? If it is not okay for police to fire randomly into a crowd of men, then it is not okay. Will any of those police shooters be charged? Prosecuted for murder? Probably not. But, the bail bondsmen are going to make a fortune.
It took a while, but this essay soars at the end! Thank you Charles Blow!
1
Armoni Sexton
He's in today's NYTimes. Shot in another Patterson drive-by. He lived to be 15 years old. Meantime, Charles is worried about semantics used with describing biker gangs. Does anyone else see a problem here? Armoni should have been Char;es' op-ed. He wasn't, because clearly he doesn't matter to Charles.
Armoni Sexton IS the story.
He's in today's NYTimes. Shot in another Patterson drive-by. He lived to be 15 years old. Meantime, Charles is worried about semantics used with describing biker gangs. Does anyone else see a problem here? Armoni should have been Char;es' op-ed. He wasn't, because clearly he doesn't matter to Charles.
Armoni Sexton IS the story.
15
Armoni Sexton is not the only story. There IS police brutality and thuggery.
But apropos Paterson, take a look at the terrifying spike in violent crimes and murders in Baltimore-- esppecially in the Western police district where Mr. Gray lived--since the riots. Learn about police surrounded by crowds of 30-50 when they merely respond to calls. Learn of the wAste of resources as backup when responding officers are precluded from taking action. I'm not making this up. The black police commissioner in Baltimore said this in an interview yesterday. And the violence figures that have been presented in Baltimore media in the past two weeks.
Baltimore has huge swaths of poverty and frustration. It was a violent city before the riots and is more violent now. Not all of this violence is police violence. Where are the Al Sharptons and the Blows of the world, post-riots? Not in Baltimore.
I work in West Baltimore. I love the city. I don't want to see it further devolve into lawlessness. Forget fighting about words. Get on with the work that needs to be done: on racism, on crime, on poverty. Killer bikers, rioters and crew (gang) members and muggers and murderers are all criminals. Face facts: Meanings of words change over time. They can become charged. Sadly violence does not change. But its victims can. Let's highlight all victims now, not just those who meet our own defintions of worthy of our attention.
But apropos Paterson, take a look at the terrifying spike in violent crimes and murders in Baltimore-- esppecially in the Western police district where Mr. Gray lived--since the riots. Learn about police surrounded by crowds of 30-50 when they merely respond to calls. Learn of the wAste of resources as backup when responding officers are precluded from taking action. I'm not making this up. The black police commissioner in Baltimore said this in an interview yesterday. And the violence figures that have been presented in Baltimore media in the past two weeks.
Baltimore has huge swaths of poverty and frustration. It was a violent city before the riots and is more violent now. Not all of this violence is police violence. Where are the Al Sharptons and the Blows of the world, post-riots? Not in Baltimore.
I work in West Baltimore. I love the city. I don't want to see it further devolve into lawlessness. Forget fighting about words. Get on with the work that needs to be done: on racism, on crime, on poverty. Killer bikers, rioters and crew (gang) members and muggers and murderers are all criminals. Face facts: Meanings of words change over time. They can become charged. Sadly violence does not change. But its victims can. Let's highlight all victims now, not just those who meet our own defintions of worthy of our attention.
1
I wonder: Had the media referred the criminals in Baltimore/Ferguson as "gang violence" would Mr. Blow be complaining about that terminology. "Why do large groups of black men comitting crimes have to be referred to as a 'gang'?"
Mr. Blow, the events in Waco are entirely different than those of Baltimore. Since you "register interconnections and historical context," let put the two into simple context for you and anyone else that may have missed the forest for the trees: Waco involved a deadly gang fight whereby two sides were composed of willing combatants. The use of the word gang is appropriate. That's what they are. It's not simply a bunch of thugs. They are organized and maintain an affiliation/membership with one another.
Baltimore/Ferguson involved a mob of unaffiliated criminals destroying and stealing property. They were thugs.
Try as you may to compare the two, you are only stretching semantics to the point of absurdity - all in an effort to talk about "racism" in the media/our society. And in doing so, you only cause people to go tone-deaf to the word 'racism.' Save your breath for discussions about real examples of racism in the media, Mr. Blow. On that note, I was hoping you watched a recent episode of "Black-ish" whereby Anthony Anderson proclaims (first) 'Black people aren't Republicans', followed by 'all Republicans are racist.' Oh, but of course, it's 'comedy', right? Or is it ok because Mr. Anderson is black?
Mr. Blow, the events in Waco are entirely different than those of Baltimore. Since you "register interconnections and historical context," let put the two into simple context for you and anyone else that may have missed the forest for the trees: Waco involved a deadly gang fight whereby two sides were composed of willing combatants. The use of the word gang is appropriate. That's what they are. It's not simply a bunch of thugs. They are organized and maintain an affiliation/membership with one another.
Baltimore/Ferguson involved a mob of unaffiliated criminals destroying and stealing property. They were thugs.
Try as you may to compare the two, you are only stretching semantics to the point of absurdity - all in an effort to talk about "racism" in the media/our society. And in doing so, you only cause people to go tone-deaf to the word 'racism.' Save your breath for discussions about real examples of racism in the media, Mr. Blow. On that note, I was hoping you watched a recent episode of "Black-ish" whereby Anthony Anderson proclaims (first) 'Black people aren't Republicans', followed by 'all Republicans are racist.' Oh, but of course, it's 'comedy', right? Or is it ok because Mr. Anderson is black?
19
If we are appalled by the violence here in America, why aren't we equally aghast at the violence of wars overseas? And many white people seem to have subscribed to using violent means, worse perhaps, than other races, and also can show a morbid degree of hate toward other people of THEIR VERY SAME race. They don't always show the same kind of unity, as blacks do.
The problem is that in being against violence others do, being againstabuse of 'human rights', is seen completely separately from being an actual 'pacifist', or an actual believer in racial equality. There seems to me at least, a blatant inconsistency, between being able to claim the righteousness of being against abuse of human rights, yet subscribing fully, to the righteousness of wars fought in the guise of being a 'moral' policemen to the world ... in toppling any bad dictatorship on grounds it has used poisons against its own people. So then whereas the Pope had voiced objections to starting the war against Iraq (March 2003 - ), most Americans didn't see past the idea that it may have been a good thing to topple Saddam's govt. anyway, and especially if they could use the oil they got in the process to pay for the war!
People are really 100% hypocritical when they can still go to church, and be for 'human rights' and charity, and yet do complete destruction upon a whole nation like Iraq, as if it could be 'worth it' because some leader over there can be called a bad name that can stick with the public.
The problem is that in being against violence others do, being againstabuse of 'human rights', is seen completely separately from being an actual 'pacifist', or an actual believer in racial equality. There seems to me at least, a blatant inconsistency, between being able to claim the righteousness of being against abuse of human rights, yet subscribing fully, to the righteousness of wars fought in the guise of being a 'moral' policemen to the world ... in toppling any bad dictatorship on grounds it has used poisons against its own people. So then whereas the Pope had voiced objections to starting the war against Iraq (March 2003 - ), most Americans didn't see past the idea that it may have been a good thing to topple Saddam's govt. anyway, and especially if they could use the oil they got in the process to pay for the war!
People are really 100% hypocritical when they can still go to church, and be for 'human rights' and charity, and yet do complete destruction upon a whole nation like Iraq, as if it could be 'worth it' because some leader over there can be called a bad name that can stick with the public.
3
I think Mr. Blow's outrage would be credible if black-on-black violence levels were closer to those in the general population and if 'thuggery' and misogyny were not glorified in rap/hip-hop music.
24
I'd be interested if you could actually name five such songs you have listened to and analyzed, or if you're just parroting right-wing talking points.
1
I'm fairly disappointed in the strange desire by some voices in the minority rights community to use the biker shootout in Texas as some kind of example of police and media leniency.
For one, the facts aren't there -- the police likely killed many of those dead, the police have insistently and consistently characterized the bikers as gang members and the media has accepted and parroted this description without question.
The other is, given their criticism of excessive police violence why wouldn't they be questioning the police response in this situation? As far as I know, there has been zero questioning of the police's narrative in this incident by anyone and thusfar NO facts are known as to who shot who besides an initial acknowledgement that the police "may" have shot several of the bikers.
I don't think it's hard to look at this situation and come up with entirely plausible alternative narratives that paint a picture more in common with Kent State. You have a group of officers outnumbered by as much as 20:1 facing a melee by bikers. Somebody decides to shoot and then all manner of shooting erupts.
Why choose to grind a racial axe with a false comparison of the biker shootout with Ferguson or Baltimore when a much more compelling point about excess police violence that doesn't involve a racial element could be made?
For one, the facts aren't there -- the police likely killed many of those dead, the police have insistently and consistently characterized the bikers as gang members and the media has accepted and parroted this description without question.
The other is, given their criticism of excessive police violence why wouldn't they be questioning the police response in this situation? As far as I know, there has been zero questioning of the police's narrative in this incident by anyone and thusfar NO facts are known as to who shot who besides an initial acknowledgement that the police "may" have shot several of the bikers.
I don't think it's hard to look at this situation and come up with entirely plausible alternative narratives that paint a picture more in common with Kent State. You have a group of officers outnumbered by as much as 20:1 facing a melee by bikers. Somebody decides to shoot and then all manner of shooting erupts.
Why choose to grind a racial axe with a false comparison of the biker shootout with Ferguson or Baltimore when a much more compelling point about excess police violence that doesn't involve a racial element could be made?
15
The need for some in the minority rights community to take the Waco shootout and use it as an example of anti-black racism is a compulsion of those in that community to take any situation no matter what the racial dynamics (white on white, black on white, black on black, white on black) and find a way to proclaim that the incident is really about anti-black racist. Even when no victims are black. Or anyone involved at all is black. This is predictable. You find what you are looking for and those in that community need to find anti-black racism under every rock and keep it in the news 24/7.
1
Many non-biker white people joining in on the melee, were there then?
Or celebrating and defending it?
Low lives are low lives, no matter their race, but few white people defend the indefensible, while screaming that someone else made them do it, because their feelings weren't respected.
Or celebrating and defending it?
Low lives are low lives, no matter their race, but few white people defend the indefensible, while screaming that someone else made them do it, because their feelings weren't respected.
21
I agree with Mr. Blow on most points. As the republican political consultant Mr. Frank Luntz has shown us, rhetoric is very important in shaping a subject or event. The fear of black men "coming over the hill" is a very old but poignant image that is evoked often through manipulation of rhetoric. Hatred does follow but what Mr. Blow is missing in his very good article is that fear is the motivating factor; hatred is one of the byproducts.
The "yellow peril" and "illegal immigrants" tabs are very similar to the much convoluted fear of a black uprising. These are the levers of power that are used to suppress people. They are also universal as witnessed by Hitler's persecution of Jews and ISIS's persecution of anybody not committed to their current version of Islam. We also have the intolerance of fundamentalist Christians who believe that anybody not adhering to their version of Christianity is going to hell. A previous Waco massacre and the Jim Jones tragedy both bear witness to what can happen when religious freedom is allowed more protection than public safety.
It all comes back to fear. Hate is intractable; fear can be fought with reason, education and humanity. But it's not easy and Mr. Blow's rage is very understandable but when we need to fix an institutional problem it's wisest to start at the root.
The "yellow peril" and "illegal immigrants" tabs are very similar to the much convoluted fear of a black uprising. These are the levers of power that are used to suppress people. They are also universal as witnessed by Hitler's persecution of Jews and ISIS's persecution of anybody not committed to their current version of Islam. We also have the intolerance of fundamentalist Christians who believe that anybody not adhering to their version of Christianity is going to hell. A previous Waco massacre and the Jim Jones tragedy both bear witness to what can happen when religious freedom is allowed more protection than public safety.
It all comes back to fear. Hate is intractable; fear can be fought with reason, education and humanity. But it's not easy and Mr. Blow's rage is very understandable but when we need to fix an institutional problem it's wisest to start at the root.
3
I agree with Charles that "thug" is the new under-the-radar N-word. But we seem to be ignoring the source of the pathology of these violent motorcycle gangs, which is also rooted in generational poverty. Most of these gang members have grown up in poverty, with single moms, labelled as "trailer trash" or "white trash." They feel just as trapped and disillusioned as the black inner city youth. The real question is: Who benefits from the racial animosity between poor black people and poor white people. Before the Civil War, it was the plantation owners who benefited from pitting black vs. white. Who benefits now?
1
I'm wondering how the Charles Blows of the world would have analyzed a situation where groups of minorities would have gathered to hash out their issues in public under heavily armed police surveillance and when violence broke out more than a half dozen people were killed and 170 arrested on organized crime charges?
It would have been decried as an organized, purposeful massacre of well-intentioned citizens gathering to work out their grievances and another example of white/police repression and violence.
It would have been decried as an organized, purposeful massacre of well-intentioned citizens gathering to work out their grievances and another example of white/police repression and violence.
14
'...And invariably, the single-mother, absent-father trope is dragged out...'
Is Mr Blow referring to the 70% single mother statistic amongst black mothers and suggesting that has no relationship to the problems with young black men?
That 'trope'?
Do people actually believe that fathers are unimportant in a boy's life?
Is Mr Blow referring to the 70% single mother statistic amongst black mothers and suggesting that has no relationship to the problems with young black men?
That 'trope'?
Do people actually believe that fathers are unimportant in a boy's life?
18
I think Mr. Blow is reaching here. I also noticed some interesting aspects of the reporting. For example, it was widely reported that the police may have shot several of the bikers, possibly killing some of them. There was no outcry of police violence and overreacting. And the police had gathered beforehand, anticipating violence from this meeting of bikers, but there was no outcry in the press about "racial profiling" of these largely white thugs, (and that is a word that should be used for them.)
Mind you, there may be something to what Blow says, and we clearly do have a problem with police being more violent with black citizens than with white citizens. I certainly think that the word "thug" is taylor made for these particluar biker gangs (but not the biker clubs that are just recreational). And the word "thug" is also appropriate to apply to members of inner city gangs of any race who make a habit of conducting drive by shootings. But such labels are sometimes used too liberally, and may be applied to often to blacks. But on the other hand, bear in mind that the murder rate in African American communities is 4 to 5 times what it is in other communities. We need to be much more careful and reflective in understanding why this is, and must guard against thinking most African Americans are thugs. They clearly are not.
Mind you, there may be something to what Blow says, and we clearly do have a problem with police being more violent with black citizens than with white citizens. I certainly think that the word "thug" is taylor made for these particluar biker gangs (but not the biker clubs that are just recreational). And the word "thug" is also appropriate to apply to members of inner city gangs of any race who make a habit of conducting drive by shootings. But such labels are sometimes used too liberally, and may be applied to often to blacks. But on the other hand, bear in mind that the murder rate in African American communities is 4 to 5 times what it is in other communities. We need to be much more careful and reflective in understanding why this is, and must guard against thinking most African Americans are thugs. They clearly are not.
6
Charles, I am going to go out on a limb and be completely honest with you:
My first reaction upon hearing about this was to use the (pretty shameful, I must admit) term "meth-head white trash".
Now I grew up in South Carolina and this term describes several of my cousins and high school acquaintances.
We can debate all day long about the need to use the adjective "white" to modify that phrase, but you grew up in the rural South too and must know that "whitetrash" is pretty much a single word.
Ugh. I feel icky just thinking about it but that WAS my first reaction, and it was no doubt culturally-influenced.
My first reaction upon hearing about this was to use the (pretty shameful, I must admit) term "meth-head white trash".
Now I grew up in South Carolina and this term describes several of my cousins and high school acquaintances.
We can debate all day long about the need to use the adjective "white" to modify that phrase, but you grew up in the rural South too and must know that "whitetrash" is pretty much a single word.
Ugh. I feel icky just thinking about it but that WAS my first reaction, and it was no doubt culturally-influenced.
32
According to the latest news videos now show that most all shots were taken by the police. So, were the police just shooting bikers at random? Maybe so. Even if you dislike biker clubs, or biker gangs, do you justify cops shooting down men who haven't shot anyone? Remember, this is Texas. There is a gun culture in Texas, and it is not limited to those "outside the law". The police were told that bikers were gathering at a certain place, and, it appears the police went in with the aim to shoot bikers. Note: I am old, white and female.
Mr. Blow - You are absolutely correct in you perception that this society often views White 'outlaws' romantically, while Black 'outlaws' are regarded as being 'beyond the pale'. But when are you going to register the misogyny inherent in the notion that single parenting is bad for child development. Violence in the home is bad for kids, and so is poverty. But those are other issues.
12
Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture or Hispanic culture?
No, because a few thousand grown ups who like to ride Harleys and wear leather jacket with a gang name on it don't represent any culture.
No, because a few thousand grown ups who like to ride Harleys and wear leather jacket with a gang name on it don't represent any culture.
2
Mr. Blow,
You have endured the lashes of racism and perhaps the hurt inflicted by our own brothers and sisters for being brown way back in our own racist culture.
I salute you for your defiant courage !
But a thug is a thug in America and white boys will get a pass as long as they rule.
You have endured the lashes of racism and perhaps the hurt inflicted by our own brothers and sisters for being brown way back in our own racist culture.
I salute you for your defiant courage !
But a thug is a thug in America and white boys will get a pass as long as they rule.
3
Right on, Charles. This whole thing got relatively little coverage and the uproar and outcry about gun violence has been minimal. We all sat back and said, well, if these lowlifes want to kill each other, so be it.
2
If Charles Blow thinks the media doesn’t glorify black criminal and black violence, he doesn’t watch music video and must have missed Denzel Washington as Frank Lucas in “American Gangster “and Terrence Howard as Lucious Lyon in the hit series “Empire.”
11
The bikers were not vandalizing private property such as owned by CVS or setting on fire public property (police cars). They were armed gangstas hurting each other, and are criminals pure and simple. The Ferguson and Baltimore protestors were looting and engaged in arson. So they were thugs and arsonists.
Distinction with a huge difference.
Distinction with a huge difference.
12
It seems there ought to be some generic term we can use to describe people who do stupid things. For instance, I would much prefer the headline: "9 Knuckleheads Dead In Waco After Fight Erupts Over Parking Space", or "CVS Burned To Ground In Baltimore By Unknown Number Of Knuckleheads, Police Still Searching For Motive."
3
I would add to Mr. Blow's excellent article this observation: Police response to the events in Waco seemed appropriate for the situation. There was a genuine threat - from the thugs in the motorcycle gangs - to civic peace and safety, the the police appeared to respond appropriately. I cannot help but wonder how they would have responded if all the rioters and thugs had been black.
2
This is an exceptionally marvelous and tremendously significant commentary on the entire issue. You are to be commended at the highest level possible. You use of love as the only answer to such hate is an echo of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s answer, and is passionately and compassionately well-stated. Thank you of your writing this, and for being who you are! You sir, are a blessing to all of us, even to those who disagree with you!
Rodney Noel Saunders
United Methodist Pastor, Retired
Rodney Noel Saunders
United Methodist Pastor, Retired
3
The "problem" is simple: this "shoot out" wasn't against anything governmental. We don't have a problem when people we consider on the outskirts of society have a "private shoot 'em up." It's the protests against government policy that infuriate people, especially if those protesting aren't white. Then, our "society" REALLY feels insulted and resentful: those people should be happy we let them . . . . . .(fill in the blanks.)
3
As a white motorcyclist who has been riding and fiddling with motorcycles for half a century, I have long harbored a deep resentment for "clubs," such as the Angels or Bandidos, that exist principally to offend and intimidate. I have never hesitated to call them "thugs," and when the violence erupted in Waco, that was the first word I used to describe them. There are black biker gangs, too, and some of them are "thugs" as well.
85
Agreed. And comparing the average biker, even one who joins a riding club, to the Angels or Outlaws is as ridiculous as saying someone must be a drug dealer/gang member because they listen to hip hop.
There are rumblings afoot that all nine were killed by police fire, and there was never a shot fired by bikers until the police opened fire. Some sites are calling it a police massacre. Videos may support these claims, and until the autopsy reports are in, we won't know.
2
And the folks with the videos are waiting for what exactly? This is conspiracy theory nonsense.
If the bikers were black there would be far more concern that maybe the police massacred them. But since they are white if they were shot unnecessarily by the police Mr Blow doesn't care. That's the real racism in this story. All those concerned about police brutality against black males should be questioning whether the police slaughtered these bikers unnecessarily.
1
Beautifully written Mr. Blow...
5
His columns are beautifully written. It does not mean they are always right.
1
Mr. Blow's column is very well written, but not convincing. The notion that the nouns attached to descriptions of those involved in a biker gang fight were somehow less condemning than those used describing citizens engaged in protests in Ferguson and Baltimore is not just absurd, it's delusional. Is racism alive and well in America? Oh yes. And does the media - especially Fox News - tilt their broadcasts in highly racists ways? Again, yes. But it's important to recognize that those moron bikers in Waco were acting out against each other, and not the general public or any particular race, sex, religious affiliation, etc. Thugs? Yeah, you could call them that, but I would prefer nouns that can't be printed within this comment section. More importantly, the only injuries in said "massacre" (another noun misuse by Mr. Blow) were sustained by the bikers themselves. As for the charge of "organized crime linked to capital murder" the DA will have a hard time making that stick on most of the 170 charged. This was a brawl, not a massacre. It was spontaneous, not organized. And most of all it was self inflicted. Mr. Blow has a wonderful talent for writing, but that talent shouldn't mask the flawed logic he uses in this particular editorial.
8
When dozens of people show up bearing assorted weapons they are not gathering to compare tattoos. One can call them Thugs. And I agree with Mr. Blow. The vocabulary used to describe these particular thugs is soft. Thug, a word introduced into the language via the British in India. Thuggee was a cult of criminals preying on travelers. The author John Masters gave a very good account of the practice in his novel, 'The Deceivers'.
1
Fitting that the biker thugs shot of up Waco, Texas, at the same time that some Texans fear invasion and occupation by the Federal government. Yeah, they need to get rid of the government in Texas. Get rid of the government and what would you have in Waco? A failed state taken over by a criminal hoard of testosterone-crazed whistle brains. Not so different from the ugly Isis bullies in Iraq.
2
After the endless accusations by the media of the carelessness of Cops in dealing with such events, why do you suppose the Cops did not shoot anybody in Waco. As careless and thoughtless and criminal-like as the Cops have been accused of being? With all those "military weapons"?
2
They did shoot people. Where did you hear otherwise?
Thank you, Mr. Blow. Extremely well said.
2
I find myself agreeing with comments about our apparent collective ignorance regarding the use of the term 'thug'. I've always associated that term with mafia muscle, which I guess shows my age if nothing else. I've never associated a racial tag or slur to it.
I also notice the reference to this rhetoric in the column contained a link to USA Today. I didn't know they were still around. Good to know they have at least one reader.
I don't take the topic lightly. To the extent language is used to minimize the importance of any group of people, it is a very serious matter. No, Mr. Blow, the issue is serious...it is you I take lightly.
I also notice the reference to this rhetoric in the column contained a link to USA Today. I didn't know they were still around. Good to know they have at least one reader.
I don't take the topic lightly. To the extent language is used to minimize the importance of any group of people, it is a very serious matter. No, Mr. Blow, the issue is serious...it is you I take lightly.
3
This may be a myopic problem for some American who seem to feel that they can usurp any word and make it mean whatever they want it to mean (with apologies to Lewis Caroll).
To the rest of the English speaking world, the word "thug" is understood to originate from India, generally connotes a person who does wrongful actions and the word is colour-blind. That some Americans use it to only denote black people who do wrongful actions is a Humpty-Dumpty kind of problem.
I suspect that if apologists for these bikers, in retaliation for this incident, began to burn down pharmacies and other businesses not owned by bikers - those apologists could be referred to as "thugs".
To the rest of the English speaking world, the word "thug" is understood to originate from India, generally connotes a person who does wrongful actions and the word is colour-blind. That some Americans use it to only denote black people who do wrongful actions is a Humpty-Dumpty kind of problem.
I suspect that if apologists for these bikers, in retaliation for this incident, began to burn down pharmacies and other businesses not owned by bikers - those apologists could be referred to as "thugs".
7
What needs to be addressed is that by distorting language we can turn victims into villains and villains into heroes.
The Thugees of India had a generational history and a defined code of behaviour. They were professional much like lawyers lobbyists and political operatives. They were Professional criminals trained in their art from birth by parents familiar with acceptable codes of conduct in an hierarchical society where conformity with the rules gave affirmation and value to your profession of birth.
When the powers that be moved the jobs away from Baltimore, Detroit, Gary and Buffalo they did not leave a blueprint for behaviour. Unlike "motorcycle clubs' which told its members who, where and how they could operate the economic powers choose to leave our urban enclaves with a Mad Max scenario of anarchy with little economic opportunity, poor educational resources and less than optimum access to proper nutrition and healthcare.
It is little wonder that the victims of the scenario could be painted with the darkest strokes of the brush. The Plutocrats have had centuries of practice painting the victims as villains. Even now as the victims of our wars against democracy in the Americas seek a decent life for themselves and their families our right wing reactionaries in politics and the media paint them as lawbreakers even as the waiting line for legal immigration stretches back for many generations.
The time has come to revisit Swift's Modest Proposal, it is still 1729.
The Thugees of India had a generational history and a defined code of behaviour. They were professional much like lawyers lobbyists and political operatives. They were Professional criminals trained in their art from birth by parents familiar with acceptable codes of conduct in an hierarchical society where conformity with the rules gave affirmation and value to your profession of birth.
When the powers that be moved the jobs away from Baltimore, Detroit, Gary and Buffalo they did not leave a blueprint for behaviour. Unlike "motorcycle clubs' which told its members who, where and how they could operate the economic powers choose to leave our urban enclaves with a Mad Max scenario of anarchy with little economic opportunity, poor educational resources and less than optimum access to proper nutrition and healthcare.
It is little wonder that the victims of the scenario could be painted with the darkest strokes of the brush. The Plutocrats have had centuries of practice painting the victims as villains. Even now as the victims of our wars against democracy in the Americas seek a decent life for themselves and their families our right wing reactionaries in politics and the media paint them as lawbreakers even as the waiting line for legal immigration stretches back for many generations.
The time has come to revisit Swift's Modest Proposal, it is still 1729.
1
Outlaw bikers are a specific type of thug. They are referred to as outlaw bikers to differentiate them from other types of thugs. The media described the African Americans who attacked an Asian American motorist on Manhattan’s West Side Highway in 2013 as “black motorcyclists,” not “thugs.” The media isn’t describing the Waco bikers as “white bikers” because many are Latino and some are African American.
8
Mr Blow,
I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree with the general premise: that perception of white violence and black violence is different and racially motivated. However, I'm not sure that the argument: Obama and the Mayor of Baltimore called the black rioters 'thugs' but nobody called the Waco bikers ‘thugs’ is proof of such disparity.
First of all, Obama and the Mayor of Baltimore are politicians and, as such, must engage in overkill when referring to lawbreakers. They are also both black and cannot under any circumstances be seen as sympathetic to black rioters. If they did, the media – and more specifically the right-wing media – would have a field day. However, had either of them been called upon to express an opinion on the Waco massacre, they might very well have called the bikers ‘thugs’ or worse. The word ‘thug’ does seem a little mild for what happened in Texas.
Secondly, the media may not have called the bikers ‘thugs’ but then again, I don’t recall them calling the rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore ‘thugs’ either. So I fear you may be mixing apples and oranges here.
Having said that, if you’re looking for examples of the stark difference in perceptions of black and white achievement, be it positive or negative, or in the treatment of blacks and whites generally, you need look no further than your television set. It will provide you with an embarrassment of choices.
I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree with the general premise: that perception of white violence and black violence is different and racially motivated. However, I'm not sure that the argument: Obama and the Mayor of Baltimore called the black rioters 'thugs' but nobody called the Waco bikers ‘thugs’ is proof of such disparity.
First of all, Obama and the Mayor of Baltimore are politicians and, as such, must engage in overkill when referring to lawbreakers. They are also both black and cannot under any circumstances be seen as sympathetic to black rioters. If they did, the media – and more specifically the right-wing media – would have a field day. However, had either of them been called upon to express an opinion on the Waco massacre, they might very well have called the bikers ‘thugs’ or worse. The word ‘thug’ does seem a little mild for what happened in Texas.
Secondly, the media may not have called the bikers ‘thugs’ but then again, I don’t recall them calling the rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore ‘thugs’ either. So I fear you may be mixing apples and oranges here.
Having said that, if you’re looking for examples of the stark difference in perceptions of black and white achievement, be it positive or negative, or in the treatment of blacks and whites generally, you need look no further than your television set. It will provide you with an embarrassment of choices.
4
So now we have another word we can't use to describe despicable behavior because it offends a group. So what word can we use to describe young men who loot, burn and riot? Hooligans? Ruffians? Misguided youth? Boisterous youth?
11
Quote where Mr Blow said the word couldn't be used. You missed the point. He didn't say you can't call them thugs, he asks why these violent biker GANG members aren't called thugs.
1
The Waco bike gangs were not exclusively white. There are pictures of the arrested that show black and Hispanic bikers.
Once again, Blow's desire to find racism under every rock leads to a false conclusion.
But if it makes Blow feel better, feel free to refer to the Waco criminals as "thugs" and the Baltimore criminals as "gang members."
Once again, Blow's desire to find racism under every rock leads to a false conclusion.
But if it makes Blow feel better, feel free to refer to the Waco criminals as "thugs" and the Baltimore criminals as "gang members."
16
Imagine if all the bikers were black, and there were 170 arrests! OMG what a media frenzy there would have been about the rabidly violent black men!
Charles Blow you have written a brilliant and very insightful article. You are 100 percent correct in what you say, and I applaud you for being able to articulate it so well. Thank you for writing it. I will share widely.
Charles Blow you have written a brilliant and very insightful article. You are 100 percent correct in what you say, and I applaud you for being able to articulate it so well. Thank you for writing it. I will share widely.
3
Some people really do try too hard to over analyze things don't they? If it makes you feel better Mr. Blow, let's call them "biker gang thugs." We call the others just "thugs" because they don't have motorcycles. It's really simple. Howz 'bouts let hear what you have to say about Armoni Sexton's death because you obviously know nothing about biker gang violence.
7
Drive through town with the "Stars and Bars" flying from your vehicle with your weapon of choice strapped to your side and you're just a romantic, throwback in thrall with the South's noble struggle against the North's war of aggression. Pickup your AR-15 and head to Nevada to defend a deadbeat against the Federal government and you're a patriot. Rise up to rail against the injustices of a racial and brutal police force and you're a thug and a threat to society. Perhaps nothing has changed in our perception, white people are revolutionaries, black people who struggle for the same freedoms are criminals. This has been the story line since the days of slave rebellions and it is still alive today.
62
The difference is in third example the destruction of our private property. Their response to perceived injustice was to destroy the businesses of their hardworking neighbors. It is sad if you can't see the difference.
2
the whole 'flag on vehicle' is rather silly, no matter what flag you're flying...
Bundy and his crowd should have been treated the same way these biker thugs were...
The rioters in Baltimore were, most definitely, criminal thugs...and a city should never make an 'alliance' with CRIMINAL gangs and call it a brokered peace. See Baltimore as we speak for that sort of result.
Bundy and his crowd should have been treated the same way these biker thugs were...
The rioters in Baltimore were, most definitely, criminal thugs...and a city should never make an 'alliance' with CRIMINAL gangs and call it a brokered peace. See Baltimore as we speak for that sort of result.
1
People want to avoid certain racial issues but raise others.
I had not associated race and the term "thugs" until a year ago when I saw an opinion piece on cnn.com written by an African Americaan woman. I had actually associated it with "very bad guys" from old movies and organized crime.. I felt bad that I had spoken to a former boss (an African American woman) and referred to the black guys who mugged me,and those who surrounded her at a store parking lot and those gathered by social media committing crimes on mass transit in my area,as "thugs." I do not use the term any more except to refer to non-black thugs.
So i was a bit taken back when the black Baltimore mayor referred to rioters as thugs because I would have been accused of racism for using the term.
It is only now that other racial aspects of the Baltimore riots are emerging. Over 200 businesses were damaged or destroyed-an estimated 100 Asian-mostly Korean-owned. The Wash. Post had an article yesterday profiling businesses--one spared & black-owned whose owner said it was because rioters were told he was black, 2 others Korean and destroyed. These are beauty stores, corner markets, liquor stores. Many owners are first generation who scrape together family & business loans and savings and are willing to open in dangerous neighborhoods. We immediately heard about burning corporate CVSs but not Asian immigrant businesses until now. Why?
Maybe Mr. Blow can call this the racism it is.
I had not associated race and the term "thugs" until a year ago when I saw an opinion piece on cnn.com written by an African Americaan woman. I had actually associated it with "very bad guys" from old movies and organized crime.. I felt bad that I had spoken to a former boss (an African American woman) and referred to the black guys who mugged me,and those who surrounded her at a store parking lot and those gathered by social media committing crimes on mass transit in my area,as "thugs." I do not use the term any more except to refer to non-black thugs.
So i was a bit taken back when the black Baltimore mayor referred to rioters as thugs because I would have been accused of racism for using the term.
It is only now that other racial aspects of the Baltimore riots are emerging. Over 200 businesses were damaged or destroyed-an estimated 100 Asian-mostly Korean-owned. The Wash. Post had an article yesterday profiling businesses--one spared & black-owned whose owner said it was because rioters were told he was black, 2 others Korean and destroyed. These are beauty stores, corner markets, liquor stores. Many owners are first generation who scrape together family & business loans and savings and are willing to open in dangerous neighborhoods. We immediately heard about burning corporate CVSs but not Asian immigrant businesses until now. Why?
Maybe Mr. Blow can call this the racism it is.
62
Why are we more concerned about non-Black property than we are about Black lives?
2
I don't see the word thug as a racial word at all. I think the word "thug" was appropriately used by President Obama when referring to the people looting and destroying property in Baltimore no matter the race. I understand the anger and frustration but does destroying property and stealing from other's hard work justified?.... Absolutely not, and in that those people where indeed thugs. If we, no matter what the race, want to lose the label of thug, let us prove them wrong and act in a way contrary to the actions that word implies.
57
A thug is bad, but it's not the worst thing you could be. Bernie Madoff will have more to answer for on Judgment Day than most thugs.
1
One difference is we see no actual video of these people behaving improperly. The description of the video I have read says the majority of the bikers were crawling on the ground trying to take cover and in some cases helping non biker customers do the same. There was no property damage and no non bikers were injured. I've also read unconfirmed reports that all those killed were shot by police (not other bikers) and 7 of the 9 dead had no serious criminal records which does raise questions about a possible over reaction by police. There is a hard criminal element in these gangs but somehow it seems they manage to keep it among themselves. They don't seem to bother people outside their underworld. They hadn't just robbed a convenience store or burned down the neighborhood pharmacy.
11
I would like to hear more about whose bullets killed those guys. NYT?
I have been to the castle keep and I have been to the dungeon. I have walked the halls of academia and the halls of prison. I have been in the homes of the wealthy and the homes of the ghetto. I have worked with the labor and occupied the office of the CEO. I have seen the lot of everyman, and let me tell you brother; the lots are not fairly drawn.
6
James, is this a poem? Did you write it? It has a very evocative effect.
When I see comments on how language is used to create heroes and villains in America I immediately think of the word conservative. The word conservative has always meant the opposite of radical. In a political sense it has always meant a slow modification of the existing system. American conservatives today are anything but conservative.
The word thug has always had attached it the levels of meaning Charles Blow describes in today's column, how apt that in its original Hindi usage a thug would more aptly describe the "motorcycle club member" than the victims of American free enterprise designed urban poverty.
The word thug has always had attached it the levels of meaning Charles Blow describes in today's column, how apt that in its original Hindi usage a thug would more aptly describe the "motorcycle club member" than the victims of American free enterprise designed urban poverty.
4
wow. You managed to drag race into a biker gang dispute where that wasn't relevant. Quite a stretch. A biker gang war is pretty different from looting and burning in a riot. You think white people like biker wars better than city riots because of who's involved? Another big stretch.
14
Semantics, Semantics that is the question. Just the word "Biker" conjures up images that vary according to the experience of the hearer. I think Mister Blow makes too much of this. President Obama was referring to the thugs that seem to just want to destroy things and always seem to appear among folks who are rightly protesting a wrong and mean to do it peaceably. We all know the difference between the biker gangs that are thugs and those that are not.
I remember Brando rolling into town with his biker gang. The movie made the scene look very scary at the time. The Waco event sure took this scene up a notch. The one thing Mister Blow got right in his article was that we are animals. Unfortunately we are also animals that not only use brute force but weapons as well.
I remember Brando rolling into town with his biker gang. The movie made the scene look very scary at the time. The Waco event sure took this scene up a notch. The one thing Mister Blow got right in his article was that we are animals. Unfortunately we are also animals that not only use brute force but weapons as well.
1
The "single mother, absent father trope" is not "dragged out" every time there is violence and looting in the black community.
It is dragged out every time Mr. blow parades his statistics about blacks have proportionally higher high school drop out rates, longer school suspensions, higher unemployment, higher criminal convictions, longer criminal sentences, and so on.
It is dragged out every time Mr. blow parades his statistics about blacks have proportionally higher high school drop out rates, longer school suspensions, higher unemployment, higher criminal convictions, longer criminal sentences, and so on.
10
If the biker gang thugs who were shot by the police had been black, what would Mr. Blow have said about that? They were fighting amongst themselves, not looting and burning businesses. That certainly didn't make them angels, but no bystanders were hurt nor was there rampant property damage.
15
All words have connotative as well as specific (dictionary) meaning and the former is largely subjective. Mr. Blow is attempting to universalized his very narrow, race-based view of society by re-defining the connotative meaning of the word "thug." Does he want the NYT to ban the word, as it did "terrorist?"
Mr. Blow would more profitably use the space he has been generously given to address the causes of black- on-black crime and the inability or unwillingness of his community to take responsibility for any of its own problems.
By the way, if Mr. Blow really cares about the corruption of language for racist purposes , he should stop using the word "privileged" as an anti-white racist epithet.
Mr. Blow would more profitably use the space he has been generously given to address the causes of black- on-black crime and the inability or unwillingness of his community to take responsibility for any of its own problems.
By the way, if Mr. Blow really cares about the corruption of language for racist purposes , he should stop using the word "privileged" as an anti-white racist epithet.
8
There was an op-ed yesterday in these pages written by a man considering himself a moderate biker and bemoaning the linkage of all bikers to criminality because of a small percentage of misdoers. If 'biker' would be replaced by 'Muslim' or 'African-American' in that article, it would probably have be changed minimally to ring true. Ironically, the moderate biker was himself a Muslim.
16
Until people like Mr. Blow accept the fact that black Americans need to accept SOME responsibility for their predicament this problem will never go away. I don't mean they are responsible for where they are but they are responsible for where they are going. By people like Mr. Blow I mean all of those who are in the industry of denying black Americans opportunity by denying them control of their circumstances. The victim mentality needs to end. As long as anyone sees themselves as a victim they cede control of their life to others.
81
There certainly are problems with race in the United States. In addition, I have been horrified by the shooting of unarmed, black men. These issues need to be addressed by our citizens. However, the term "thug" has been used to describe behavior of both blacks and whites and I don't think of the word as a racial pejorative. Well meaning people often shy away from talking about race because they are afraid of being accused of being racially insensitive. In other words being afraid of using the wrong words. This focus on the word "thug" is a distraction and counterproductive to having meaningful dialogue concerning racial issues in our country.
78
"To me, this is a societal and media issue about the imbalances in characterization..."
You are right about that. Mr. Blow, and you are right as a matter of fact, not just editorial opnion.
The imbalances in characterization probably have their origins in the early days of black slavery in America. The creation of the institution of trade in human chattel was accompanied by the creation of a narrative that dehumanized the slaves. That narrative has become ingrained, seemingly indelibly, in American culture, and shows up in modern times as lingering stereotypes, mythological notions, and prejudice. Media reports about blacks doing ANYTHING, but especially black violence, are almost always tainted by the white-contrived black narrative.
Looking back with metaphysical perspective, slavery in America unleashed an incredibly powerful wave of negative energy into the American culture, and that energy is reflected in the American narrative about its black citizens. Today the fact is that many Americans, white mostly, don't want to let it go. Such people as Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh use events to defend and reinforce the narrative, while they ignore or dismiss other events that diminish it.
But energy dissipates over time. Eventually, and especially with more and more positive events involving blacks, the negative energy will fade. Unfortunately there is no way to quantify "eventually", so for now we live with the "imbalances".
You are right about that. Mr. Blow, and you are right as a matter of fact, not just editorial opnion.
The imbalances in characterization probably have their origins in the early days of black slavery in America. The creation of the institution of trade in human chattel was accompanied by the creation of a narrative that dehumanized the slaves. That narrative has become ingrained, seemingly indelibly, in American culture, and shows up in modern times as lingering stereotypes, mythological notions, and prejudice. Media reports about blacks doing ANYTHING, but especially black violence, are almost always tainted by the white-contrived black narrative.
Looking back with metaphysical perspective, slavery in America unleashed an incredibly powerful wave of negative energy into the American culture, and that energy is reflected in the American narrative about its black citizens. Today the fact is that many Americans, white mostly, don't want to let it go. Such people as Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh use events to defend and reinforce the narrative, while they ignore or dismiss other events that diminish it.
But energy dissipates over time. Eventually, and especially with more and more positive events involving blacks, the negative energy will fade. Unfortunately there is no way to quantify "eventually", so for now we live with the "imbalances".
2
The more apt comparison in the biker gang conflagration is what is happening every day in Chicago between various gangs fighting over drug turf. All of the participants in both cases are thugs whatever their racial makeup.
16
Yes the mind does just jump to the blackness (or otherness) of the people involved first off, even when we try to program ourselves differently. And we, we still have to vanquish this shadow too (as Nietzsche might say).
1
Mr. Blow makes a good point, as did many commenters yesterday about the way the media minimized the horrendous violence of motorcycle thugs in Waco. It turns out that many of the bikers are known to the police for crimes of violence, and yet there they were--free to kill and maim. The carnage was serious enough to overwhelm the police and the hospitals, and to add insult to injury, there was the threat of "payback" by more bikers. Why aren't more of these vicious men in jail for their offense?
6
Many of the bikers have done jail time. The Texas Department of Public Safety and Texas Rangers monitor the outlaw biker gangs but can't arrest them until they commit new crimes. Waco police arrested 170 of the outlaw bikers at the scene of the shootout. If the Rangers were permitted to operate today as they were allowed to operate in the 1800s, Texas wouldn't have any outlaw biker gangs, but those days are past.
The carnage didn't overwhelm the police or the hospitals. The police responded rapidly and had the situation under control within a few minutes of first shots fired. One Waco hospital is a regional trauma center. All but seven wounded bikers were treated and released. The nine dead bikers required no medical attention.
1
Mr. Blow makes an excellent point - humans are lured by savagery. It is, however, short of God's take on our condition: "The human heart is deceitfully wicked and knows no boundaries." This is true for every man, woman & child in every tribe or nation. Sadly this great sore will only balloon in spite of our hand wringing or finger pointing. However it will come to a screeching halt upon the
return of King Jesus to Earth, who then WILL both restore & maintain order from his throne in Jerusalem - with a length of rebar - for a very long time.
return of King Jesus to Earth, who then WILL both restore & maintain order from his throne in Jerusalem - with a length of rebar - for a very long time.
Can't believe Blow is serious about conflating bikers and rioters. Were innocent bystanders affected by the bikers to the same extent? The rioters took out their frustration with police not merely at the police but innocent bystanders-- immigrant mom and pop businesses, apartment for the elderly, a church community center, CVS. Don't these lives affected matter as well? Perhaps as a start we could all love not just ourselves, but thy neighbor regardless of skin color.
15
Are you serious? It's simply a matter of pure luck that bystanders were not killed in the shootout. I'm not justifying looting or arson, but the thugs in Waco were shooting each other in a public parking lot--and the public be damned. If you want to equate them with inner city gangs, then be realistic and equate them with the gangs that do drive by shootings that kill innocents.
Interesting that people get so huffy and literal about the word Thug.
The point is that language can be made to mean anything. We are a media-driven culture.
We absolutely CAN be conditioned to think black thuggery is hideous and needs military intervention but white thuggery is Western shoot-out stuff with cops in Texas is kind of comical gang banging . We do it everyday with all kinds of things. Politicians use this stuff all the time. Gay people were pariahs until they weren't useful politically to scare people. Race is the same. Media is lazy and people are cynically uncritical.
The point is to examine your thinking for inconsistencies, not somehow tell yourself that white heroin dealers are better than urban looters.
The point is that language can be made to mean anything. We are a media-driven culture.
We absolutely CAN be conditioned to think black thuggery is hideous and needs military intervention but white thuggery is Western shoot-out stuff with cops in Texas is kind of comical gang banging . We do it everyday with all kinds of things. Politicians use this stuff all the time. Gay people were pariahs until they weren't useful politically to scare people. Race is the same. Media is lazy and people are cynically uncritical.
The point is to examine your thinking for inconsistencies, not somehow tell yourself that white heroin dealers are better than urban looters.
2
Waco police responded rapidly and brought the situations under control in a few minutes. Military intervention wasn't needed because there was no rioting, looting, and burning buildings.
1
As you note, our choice of language is powerful and operates on many levels, most of them below conscious. Thank you for an insightful article.
The police who risk their lives to protect the communities of all races are now targets and not because of biker gang violence. The Ferguson protests were based on a totally false narrative and were fueled by activists paid to rile the crowd and destroy the town. The truth about Baltimore, dominated by black leadership and a black police force is yet unknown; and was fueled by an openly racist black mayor and DA. Nothing will ever erase the images of the savage, thug-like behavior. Rocks thrown at police, fire hoses cut and stores not owned by blacks burning. What “nice” words would Mr. Blow suggest we use to describe these animals? Until we see similar violent protests after a white person is killed by the police, one has to question the behavior of black protestors. As a white person that watched this savagery and the outrageous “hands-up” gestures based on a false narrative in Congress and on many high profile television events, my view towards the black community has been unfavorably tainted. This is sad because the country had been making great strides in race relations. This has been set back beyond imagination thanks to this behavior, Al Sharpton and Obama. The black community has become far more racist than the white community.
Black communities lack true leadership to address core issues. Who is addressing the epidemic of broken homes and working to inject positive, inspirational influence for the youth to believe they can lift themselves up and become successful?
Black communities lack true leadership to address core issues. Who is addressing the epidemic of broken homes and working to inject positive, inspirational influence for the youth to believe they can lift themselves up and become successful?
12
It's funny how the word "thug" used to be pretty much apolitical, just meaning a dangerous tough guy. It seems to have evolved into a highly loaded propaganda term.
11
It is even more ironic considering the origins of the word; it was originally applied to members of the Thuggee, a group of professional assassins and bandits who plagued India until the 1830's. So, it was neither African Americans nor European Americans who were properly referred to by the term, but native Indians.
2
I have not heard any white person defending the biker's actions. I have not heard any white person stating that these bikers are only a product of their society, and as such their violent actions are not their fault. I have not heard any white person call for a re-alignments of our whole society so as to cater to these thugs. Whats your point Charlie?
24
Yeah, well, bikers or thugs or criminals or "outlaw motorcycle gangs," one thing is absolutely clear: They sure have made their parents proud and are yet another shining example of "American Exceptionalism." Fight on and stay true to your colors all you bikers because only you know how important that is to your life.
3
Consider for a moment the great, pervasive cultural reach of The Godfather. Almost all the characters in this much-loved film (and its even greater sequel) are evil. Yet, Americans lionize the gangster culture.
And, sadly, much of this violent, lawless way of life has been co-opted by urban America; why did James Brown insist on being known as "the godfather of soul?" Mr. Blow, I usually walk the same road as you, but we part company when you take umbrage with the president's and the former attorney general's characterization of looters as "thugs." They weren't "protesters," they were thugs. I think most people hate or fear biker gangs. And there are black biker gangs, too. So where were you going with this?
And, sadly, much of this violent, lawless way of life has been co-opted by urban America; why did James Brown insist on being known as "the godfather of soul?" Mr. Blow, I usually walk the same road as you, but we part company when you take umbrage with the president's and the former attorney general's characterization of looters as "thugs." They weren't "protesters," they were thugs. I think most people hate or fear biker gangs. And there are black biker gangs, too. So where were you going with this?
9
Blow claims, The words “outlaw” and “biker” while pejorative to some, still evoke a certain romanticism in the American ethos. They conjure an image of individualism, adventure and virility." This is just too broad a sweep. Even the long-running Sons of Anarchy was framed by the subtext of deadender dysfunctionality. I wish Blow would define the audience romanticizing biker life.
9
Charles Blow is out of control. In his world no one is wronged except black men and white people all live in Mayberry. Today I am in no mood for his words because yesterday a white family was sadistically tortured and murdered by a group of black men. Men who our police will risk their own lives to take into custody. Black men who tortured a ten year old boy in front of his mother.
Sorry, but the anti-white racism that Mr. Blow continues to extol on these pages is ill-timed and, today, I have no patience for it.
Sorry, but the anti-white racism that Mr. Blow continues to extol on these pages is ill-timed and, today, I have no patience for it.
18
So every black person is responsible for every crime committed by a black person? Is that what you are saying? It sure reads like that to me. I think this column is an overreach but racism is real. Am I as a white person responsible for every sadistic killing by every white person? I don't think so and I never remember feeling that I was blamed for Son of Sam or Ted Bundy or Mafia wipeouts in my native New Jersey.
1
Could you point to 3-4 lines where he espouses "anti-white racism"? Here's what he wrote: "Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture or Hispanic culture? Even the question sounds ridiculous — and yet we don’t hesitate to ask such questions around black violence, and to answer it, in the affirmative." If you think that qualifies as "anti-white racism," I really have no clue what Charles Blow is allowed to say that would pass muster with you.
1
Three women were arrested married to a gang member. To me, it is an indictment of White Culture, at least the gun-worshipping, power-loving men who promote a White culture of violence. What do we call the KKK? Not "Thugs"
Yet the violence they have perpetrated seems inhuman. The gang violence in our shameful ghettoes makes me think more about the Corleones than the Thugees. Remember the Mafia caveat:" We;ll sell it (heroin) to the blacks. They have no souls."
And let's not ignore the ever-increasing amount of money we spend on war, even when it is only waged to secure oil. White people have little justification for pontification to the Black community.
Yet the violence they have perpetrated seems inhuman. The gang violence in our shameful ghettoes makes me think more about the Corleones than the Thugees. Remember the Mafia caveat:" We;ll sell it (heroin) to the blacks. They have no souls."
And let's not ignore the ever-increasing amount of money we spend on war, even when it is only waged to secure oil. White people have little justification for pontification to the Black community.
3
Bravo, sir for so eloquently defining the inherent racial bias of the media in their descriptions of group violence and the then almost automatic digressions into the breakdown of the black family. And, yes, we should talk re the pathology of white culture as a way to jar people's consciousness that (1) there is such a thing and (2) it idolizes violence. Ultimately, we need to understand the pathology of gang violence (i.e. bikers, thugs, etc.) as a class issue and that means the media has to start regularly discussing the aggregate stats around education, income, healthcare, incarceration, longevity, etc. in terms of class when describing group pathology.
1
Thank you, Mr. Blow, I feel fortunate to have evolved to find I'm still in love with myself, and other like-in-kind, despite the fact that I, mocha-fudge hued male primate, some 200,000 years later, have survived the horror of living in this land of "let's alter all the pages of history that don't suit our need to forget." Some of my still evolving kin seem to have an innate propensity to be in denial about what once was meant (for all people), in order to be for the latest "ology," or right book of rules meant (for some people); a contrivance that is slowly, but surely leading us down a spiraling path toward annihilation. Maybe, however, that is our just need, so that we, as a species, may start all over again until we can sing this life song (of LOVE) in tune with the real lyrics straight from the heart-- and one can't lie from the heart.
I had a moment of reckoning during Hurricane Sandy when I didn't question that whites taking food from a grocery store showed good survival skills but when black people did the same, it was looting. I thank Kanye West for pointing that out. Because of that I try to imagine how acts of violence (arrests, protests, mass shootings) would be reported had it been it been if the actors were a different color. And since I'm on the topic, why hasn't anyone questioned why the police had to shoot the hammer guy instead of tazing or tackling him?
3
First, Hurricane Sandy wasn't a riot. Second, I would ask you and Kanye, who exactly (newspaper or tv/news/radio show) said "whites taking food from a grocery store showed good survival skills" or even anything like that? Simply saying that someone said that doesn't make it true.
Even if someone did say that, it's a fact that a city destroyed by a natural disaster and a city destroyed by it's own inhabitants are entirely different contexts. Don't lose your sense of reason and logic in an effort to support a narrative; especially one proliferated by a black hip-hop millionaire that incessantly uses the "n" word. But it's ok. He's black and it doesn't mean what it means when whites say it. Wanna talk about semantics? Paging Mr. Blow.
Even if someone did say that, it's a fact that a city destroyed by a natural disaster and a city destroyed by it's own inhabitants are entirely different contexts. Don't lose your sense of reason and logic in an effort to support a narrative; especially one proliferated by a black hip-hop millionaire that incessantly uses the "n" word. But it's ok. He's black and it doesn't mean what it means when whites say it. Wanna talk about semantics? Paging Mr. Blow.
2
Weren't the white cops scared for their lives of the mean, white men with their chains and their guns? If so, why didn't they shoot all the bikers dead? That's what you're supposed to do when you're an American cop and you're in fear of your life. Right? Or is that only when you're scared of black men and of black twelve-year-old boys?
2
Perhaps my comment will have been pre-stated by someone of the 350+ earlier commenters. I have not read them all. I was struck more by an image of the post-shootout than the words used to describe it. The picture I saw showed an armed uniformed police officer standing almost casually beside a group of calm seated combatants apparently arrested but awaiting transfer to jail. As we all now know - in a mass demonstration involving 9 deaths, almost 20 others seriously injured, 170 arrests and confiscated weapons ranging from chains to semi-automatic rifles - had the perpetrators been black there would have been SWAT teams, tear gas, armored police vehicles and every suspect and arrestee would have been face-down on the pavement, handcuffed. Oh, and while black suspects might get a "rough ride" in the back of a paddy wagon to jail or hospital, these non-black Texans were waiting for ... a bus. Go figure.
3
Thanks, Mr. Blow. This some the best writing on race since James Baldwin.
3
Biker toy drives are a good pr effort to convince the devil doesn't exist. The mafia has the Godfather and Sopranos to add their social acceptance. Ever seen the bit of psychosis called the Sons of Anarchy . The police have how many series? We kind of like's the police and for their honesty and professionalism. They aren't perfect but know one wants to see them shot.
Had a cop been shot in this fight would the media and the public look at it differently? Otherwise the American fantasy marches on.
Had a cop been shot in this fight would the media and the public look at it differently? Otherwise the American fantasy marches on.
There is truth in here. And much truth reserved for the last paragraph. As society advances by moving further from the Way of the Lord, and further on in the way of the Enemy of the Lord, our people must find that way of separating unto our own humanity, as Mr. Dow hints. Somewhere in the Scriptures we learn that Love is a decision. How do we close our eyes to all the violence aimed at us, and in so closing our eyes of prejudice, really open the eyes of our understanding to the beauty of seeing past all this hatred? We cannot do this in the grip of inhumanity's established norms for itself. Perhaps had I thought more I would continue. But because of the Lord and Prayer I remain hopeful.
A local ice cream stand holds a periodic night for motorcycle enthusiasts. There's no killing. it is noisy, but there is no violence. We'v had violence here as well. Several years ago, a group of bikers turned a bar into a riot. Hundreds of policemen from Lowell and all area towns converged on the bar. What we must also consider is that ice cream has an entirely different effect on men than alcohol.
Speaking as one who has been a thug, the politicization of who can be called a thug is absurd. Such a term is aptly applied to behavior but is a personal choice of an individual. A group may perceive aggressive thug actions as favorable or abominable depending on whether or not the thug acts make the group members feel better or worse. In every case the individual makes the choice to violate the common humanity of a victim because he feels justified in his glorification of violence.
In 1961 as a soldier in the US Army I was involved in a race riot over some territorial issue not unlike the biker dispute. Race played its part because of different small groups soldiers create with common interests in music, socializing, and recreation. This led to conflicts in how the enlisted man's club “territory” was utilized. For me it was Classic music against Country and Western or Jazz.
Some forgotten remark sparked a general riot so suddenly I was fist fighting a black man who had a different view. In the middle of this thug fest my friend, an African-American was the only one who kept his head, grabbed me and dragged me out thus escaping the military police and the many arrests and punishments.
All of us in that riot acted as thugs. None of us entered the club as thugs but we chose to demonize each other because our group affiliation was more important than our common humanity. Only my friend chose not to react to thuggery because he did to others what he expected of them.
In 1961 as a soldier in the US Army I was involved in a race riot over some territorial issue not unlike the biker dispute. Race played its part because of different small groups soldiers create with common interests in music, socializing, and recreation. This led to conflicts in how the enlisted man's club “territory” was utilized. For me it was Classic music against Country and Western or Jazz.
Some forgotten remark sparked a general riot so suddenly I was fist fighting a black man who had a different view. In the middle of this thug fest my friend, an African-American was the only one who kept his head, grabbed me and dragged me out thus escaping the military police and the many arrests and punishments.
All of us in that riot acted as thugs. None of us entered the club as thugs but we chose to demonize each other because our group affiliation was more important than our common humanity. Only my friend chose not to react to thuggery because he did to others what he expected of them.
5
The other telling feature of Waco that you left out is that, despite the gun violence and all the weaponry on site, no one felt the necessity to use tanks and MWRAPs, tear gas, paramilitary tactics, etc, etc, to secure the scene or to subdue the nearly two hundred people engaged in active shooting and violence. Clearly, African Americans possibly threatening property are a much greater threat to society than predominantly white motorcycle riding gangsters actively involved in murder and mayhem. We should all be embarrassed by how nakedly we demonstrate our prejudice and how it corrodes our idea of justice
3
What you left out of that analysis is the fact that the bikers were fighting only each other, and not a single bystander was killed nor was anyone's livelihood burned or looted. Do you think that may have had an influence on how the riot was suppressed?
Yes, our bias is shown by the reaction to this crime and the earlier riots. In those, apologists are calling for understanding of the criminals involved, and blaming society for the crimes. I do not hear anyone excusing the bikers for their crimes.
Yes, our bias is shown by the reaction to this crime and the earlier riots. In those, apologists are calling for understanding of the criminals involved, and blaming society for the crimes. I do not hear anyone excusing the bikers for their crimes.
1
Biker gangs fighting over alpha privileges are not more socially acceptable than are rioters destroying anything in their proximity, both are groups of people doing violence that can only be stopped with more violence. The complaints about the language used to describe each group as being praise worthy about the idiots in Waco and denigrating about the rioters in Baltimore may reflect some biases in some of those applying those terms but are these representative of general attitudes across all the people in this country as the columnist seem to claim? It would seem that to be fair and considerate, no disparaging terms should be used to describe violent and destructive behaviors by crowds of people.
The term thug comes from thuggee, a sect of Kali worshippers who strangles and dismembered travelers as part of their religious rituals in India. Unfortunately, it has come to mean something more like violent and conscienceless brute, which trivializes the higher purposes of the thuggees.
The term thug comes from thuggee, a sect of Kali worshippers who strangles and dismembered travelers as part of their religious rituals in India. Unfortunately, it has come to mean something more like violent and conscienceless brute, which trivializes the higher purposes of the thuggees.
1
In recent years, the religious nature of the Thuggee has been questioned by a few researchers, notably Mike Dash and Martine van Woerkens. Aside from that, I am in total agreement with you.
The point he is trying to make is such a stretch it's virtually incoherent. Mr. Blow writes - "But there is something about black violence that makes some people leap to a racialized conclusion that the violence is about our fraying culture — that it’s not simply about people behaving violently, but about the entirety of the environment from which they sprang. Black violence stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people." - Shockingly and quite disappointingly, he never bothers to ask why this is....
6
A lot of these outlaw bikers come from a large rural underclass located in small towns in Texas and other places where factories have left town and agriculture has been taken over by Cargill and ADM. And yes, they're whiter than a bedsheet. The old heartland has a lot of the same poverty, absent fathers, drug abusing parents and dysfunctional schools as the classic black ghetto.
What's worse that instead of a Reverend Al to go to bat for them, they only get pandered to by right wing pols and talk radio demagogues crying that those "lazy black welfare queens" are responsible for their problems
What's worse that instead of a Reverend Al to go to bat for them, they only get pandered to by right wing pols and talk radio demagogues crying that those "lazy black welfare queens" are responsible for their problems
2
Mr Blow has once again struck a cord as evidenced by the several commenters here trying desperately to deny the truth of what he wrote. There is a double standard at work in these situations. Double standards, though, are not a new experience for black people.
3
Mr. Blow is correct about the use of language. The words we use to describe people, events, behavior, all shape our conscious and unconscious attitudes.
But I do not think that the rest of this piece is on the mark.
Bikers, while romanticized in certain arenas, are still viewed, by almost everyone, as dangerous outlaws. This outbreak was no different than gang wars in a big city, "Mafia" wars or, for that matter, the rumble between the Jets and Sharks.
That the media did not use the Waco shootout to tar a larger group is understandable. The Bikers were in no way representative of or self-identified with any larger group in society.
For the past several years, Mr. Blow has been a coherent voice against discrimination and the underlying causes of problems in black communities. Other than the observation that language matters, this article veered off on a tangent that is not productive to the message he so eloquently delivers.
I would rather see a series of articles that focus on the use of language in general. One side of the political spectrum has become very adept at using language to influence thought, and the other side is in danger of losing the argument because of this subtle but effective approach.
What say you, Mr. Blow?
But I do not think that the rest of this piece is on the mark.
Bikers, while romanticized in certain arenas, are still viewed, by almost everyone, as dangerous outlaws. This outbreak was no different than gang wars in a big city, "Mafia" wars or, for that matter, the rumble between the Jets and Sharks.
That the media did not use the Waco shootout to tar a larger group is understandable. The Bikers were in no way representative of or self-identified with any larger group in society.
For the past several years, Mr. Blow has been a coherent voice against discrimination and the underlying causes of problems in black communities. Other than the observation that language matters, this article veered off on a tangent that is not productive to the message he so eloquently delivers.
I would rather see a series of articles that focus on the use of language in general. One side of the political spectrum has become very adept at using language to influence thought, and the other side is in danger of losing the argument because of this subtle but effective approach.
What say you, Mr. Blow?
3
This all rings true. There is such a seething, deep terror that white society has built into its culture, and it saturates even their obsession with violence.
What's odd is how popular culture glorifies & romanticizes & remains fascinated by white violence, white sociopaths, even white bikers.
There's a reason Breaking Bad, The Black List, & Sons of Anarchy, The Following & Justified have been such successful, long-running popular shows. People are fascinated with white violence, they seem to live out their violent fantasies through the ever more brilliantly displayed graphic splatter. White audiences love white outlaws, the more violent & well-armed the better.
But black violence? That just terrifies white culture. They seem desperate to find some genetic basis for which violence they relish & cheer, & which they're mortally terrified of.
In these comments already I see many of the distorted stats trying to paint 'black' people as genetically more prone to violence. And yet history would beg to differ.
The attitudes of white people to black violence is definitely different, I agree with Mr. Blow. Now we need to deconstruct why, and there's a rich history of manufactured fear-mongering mythology promoting white terror of black violence, and a lot of justified black anger at the hopeless, ingrained stacked deck black people continue to face in this country.
Keep at it Mr. Blow, keep us thinking & questioning the inequities you're exposing even in reporting.
What's odd is how popular culture glorifies & romanticizes & remains fascinated by white violence, white sociopaths, even white bikers.
There's a reason Breaking Bad, The Black List, & Sons of Anarchy, The Following & Justified have been such successful, long-running popular shows. People are fascinated with white violence, they seem to live out their violent fantasies through the ever more brilliantly displayed graphic splatter. White audiences love white outlaws, the more violent & well-armed the better.
But black violence? That just terrifies white culture. They seem desperate to find some genetic basis for which violence they relish & cheer, & which they're mortally terrified of.
In these comments already I see many of the distorted stats trying to paint 'black' people as genetically more prone to violence. And yet history would beg to differ.
The attitudes of white people to black violence is definitely different, I agree with Mr. Blow. Now we need to deconstruct why, and there's a rich history of manufactured fear-mongering mythology promoting white terror of black violence, and a lot of justified black anger at the hopeless, ingrained stacked deck black people continue to face in this country.
Keep at it Mr. Blow, keep us thinking & questioning the inequities you're exposing even in reporting.
2
Beautifully articulate. We must work at both ends of the spectrum.
Charles,
Geeze, this is so complicated. Just a few random responses: love hard, then teach harder, Tupac and gangsta rap embraced thug life, remember? Romanticizing the behavior only encourages embracing it which, of course, has happened. Back to love hard...love costs no money, does not posture, it embraces, it guides, it teaches, and most criminal behavior is a result of lack of hard love as children. Another random thought, those bikers have no need to be called thug to have parity with thugs. They have turned biker into thug and transcended it. Ironically, many reactions by other bikers to its pejorative use in Waco reflects your complaint about thug. Look at the clothes, the logos, the biker gang names. I mean, c'mon. You work hard to develop that identity when you revel in it, be you a thug or biker. Why they do it is certainly worth a lifetime of psychoanalysis, but lack of love growing up is probably a huge part of the mix.
Most of those bikers, are older guys which speaks to how that persona has totally absorbed them. They don't age-out. "Mad Max" redux. We all can recall actors who get locked in roles they can't escape, well, these guys, bikers and thugs alike, willingly swallowed the key. No racism in this equation, just lack of hard love.
Geeze, this is so complicated. Just a few random responses: love hard, then teach harder, Tupac and gangsta rap embraced thug life, remember? Romanticizing the behavior only encourages embracing it which, of course, has happened. Back to love hard...love costs no money, does not posture, it embraces, it guides, it teaches, and most criminal behavior is a result of lack of hard love as children. Another random thought, those bikers have no need to be called thug to have parity with thugs. They have turned biker into thug and transcended it. Ironically, many reactions by other bikers to its pejorative use in Waco reflects your complaint about thug. Look at the clothes, the logos, the biker gang names. I mean, c'mon. You work hard to develop that identity when you revel in it, be you a thug or biker. Why they do it is certainly worth a lifetime of psychoanalysis, but lack of love growing up is probably a huge part of the mix.
Most of those bikers, are older guys which speaks to how that persona has totally absorbed them. They don't age-out. "Mad Max" redux. We all can recall actors who get locked in roles they can't escape, well, these guys, bikers and thugs alike, willingly swallowed the key. No racism in this equation, just lack of hard love.
A great factor in your thoughtful questioning, Mr. Blow, is that our capitalistic system makes legitimate anything that makes money. In such a system, man's nature dictates what sells and therefore is made legitimate? Our pop culture blossoms under capitalism, ever sensitive to our human nature; sex and violence sells, bikers are “sexy,” they’re free souls, therefore they are means for gaining profit and thus good, "sexy." Those traits have always been there and, IMO, I'm not sure if pop culture creates more bad behavior, but it sure encourages people to gladly enter into it by publicizing it, thus making it acceptable - there's encouragement in seeing many people entertaining bad behavior and it gives permission to join in. The trait must be there in the first place, human nature being what it is.
I'm not condemning capitalism, it's an organic economic system and is always hungry for profit, but the question for the future is can we, should we, and how fairly can we regulate it?
However, human nature is the single key to how we behave. How do we control that? Love is the answer, but how do we get through the soup that is our psyche, containing both the heart of darkness and the light of love to reach a better place? Religion? That has been corrupted by human nature. Rationalism? That may discard the spirituality we long for.
I guess we must keep questioning our world and eventually a solution will come. Keep asking, Mr. Blow, and thank you for consistently doing so.
I'm not condemning capitalism, it's an organic economic system and is always hungry for profit, but the question for the future is can we, should we, and how fairly can we regulate it?
However, human nature is the single key to how we behave. How do we control that? Love is the answer, but how do we get through the soup that is our psyche, containing both the heart of darkness and the light of love to reach a better place? Religion? That has been corrupted by human nature. Rationalism? That may discard the spirituality we long for.
I guess we must keep questioning our world and eventually a solution will come. Keep asking, Mr. Blow, and thank you for consistently doing so.
1
To The Pulpit, Mr. Blow !
What a great clarion call to people of color and also to those without.
The obvious difference in media coverage is glaring. Why ? Because there is not fear-button to push, in part because the perceived size of the populations at issue here are so different the number of white biker gang members is small).
But that is really the problem. ALL black men are perceived as potential 'thugs', and we have media coverage that stokes the trope.
Keep shouting, Mr. Blow. Love us all into honest hardness.
What a great clarion call to people of color and also to those without.
The obvious difference in media coverage is glaring. Why ? Because there is not fear-button to push, in part because the perceived size of the populations at issue here are so different the number of white biker gang members is small).
But that is really the problem. ALL black men are perceived as potential 'thugs', and we have media coverage that stokes the trope.
Keep shouting, Mr. Blow. Love us all into honest hardness.
2
Who actually are those people you refer to as "without color"? I am 85 and have never seen one......
1
My goodness, what a reach. One of the things I find interesting about this is the assertion that "the crimes that unfolded in Waco were characterized differently than the ones in Ferguson or Baltimore".
That is entirely true, because in Ferguson/Baltimore, the rioters were attacking police and looting and destroying property of inhabitants of their neighborhoods. In Waco, two thug biker gangs were attacking each other, didn't care about the police (except when they interfered) and weren't interested in looting.
They deserved to be characterized differently because they were different phenomenon. Race had pretty much nothing to do with it, and even though the biker gangs were characterized as white, it was evident many gang members were Hispanic and black.
Trying to characterize this as racial is rather sad.
That is entirely true, because in Ferguson/Baltimore, the rioters were attacking police and looting and destroying property of inhabitants of their neighborhoods. In Waco, two thug biker gangs were attacking each other, didn't care about the police (except when they interfered) and weren't interested in looting.
They deserved to be characterized differently because they were different phenomenon. Race had pretty much nothing to do with it, and even though the biker gangs were characterized as white, it was evident many gang members were Hispanic and black.
Trying to characterize this as racial is rather sad.
13
I would say the great irony in many of the comments here, chastising Blow for his focus on race, is evidence of our continued need to talk about race. Though I can't tell, I'm going to guess it's largely white commentators unhappy with this continued lens on issues. (Says this white guy.) Cue Hamlet's mother Gertrude.
3
I have to agree with most correspondents that Mr Blow's arguments to associate racism with the press coverage of the criminal biker gangs in Waco is at best a tenuous stretch.
As an older "Anglo" in Texas my first and continued impression of these gang members is as "thugs", "criminals", "violent trouble-makers", and the like. I applaud the firm approach that Waco has taken to imprison and call to account these would-be "Mad Max" extras! I understand that a few "innocents" may have been caught up in the net, but any fool knows that when you get in the mix with people like this, you are asking for trouble.
If ever a situation called out for aggressive police action, this riot in Waco did. Failing to do so would only embolden these thugs to terrorize small towns at their leisure.
Sadly, in Texas we have a basically a lunatic desire in our legislature to promote and encourage open weapons carrying, so that may well muddy the water, vis a vis local reporting. Not to mention encourage the "Wild West" mentality among already criminal biker gangs.
As an older "Anglo" in Texas my first and continued impression of these gang members is as "thugs", "criminals", "violent trouble-makers", and the like. I applaud the firm approach that Waco has taken to imprison and call to account these would-be "Mad Max" extras! I understand that a few "innocents" may have been caught up in the net, but any fool knows that when you get in the mix with people like this, you are asking for trouble.
If ever a situation called out for aggressive police action, this riot in Waco did. Failing to do so would only embolden these thugs to terrorize small towns at their leisure.
Sadly, in Texas we have a basically a lunatic desire in our legislature to promote and encourage open weapons carrying, so that may well muddy the water, vis a vis local reporting. Not to mention encourage the "Wild West" mentality among already criminal biker gangs.
6
Word connotations change over time; nevertheless it might be helpful to consider the origin of the word "thug." The term arose in India in the 14th century and claimed both Muslim and Hindi roots. Thugs were essentially an organized gang of thieves, whose method is described in the Encyclopedia Britamnica. "The thugs would insinuate themselves into the confidence of wayfarers and, when a favourable opportunity presented itself, strangle them by throwing a handkerchief or noose around their necks." None of this sounds like the bikers of Waco or the residents of Ferguson. By allowing the media to assign the term to one group as opposed to another, we Americans are just layering one more implication onto this changeable word.
1
Blow as usual captures the essence of our racial landscape in our nation I have nothing of value to augment his superb narrative on the pathologies of race . My reservation is with Blow's solution.
We put so much pressure and burden on Love to solve our problems and restore humanity to the world. I am no longer going to demand that Love fix the world. I am going to instead demand the people in all of our roles change the world..
Love will then have a space to breath and close the deal...
We put so much pressure and burden on Love to solve our problems and restore humanity to the world. I am no longer going to demand that Love fix the world. I am going to instead demand the people in all of our roles change the world..
Love will then have a space to breath and close the deal...
1
"Thuggery" knows no particular race, or ethic group; anyone can be defined as a "thug" based upon criminal behavior, as opposed to race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, or any other "suspect classification." While much attention has been devoted to the gang fight in Waco, TX, little has been mentioned, other than in the Times, of the terrorization of a couple and their 2 year old child in an incident on the West Side Highway, between 125th St. and 187th St. in New York City in September 2013. The "gang," which included an off-duty detective, surrounded the couple in their SUV, tried to force them to a stop, causing them to run over a member of the gang, who deliberately braked to a stop in front of them, then chased them north on the highway, where they were stopped and a gang member used his helmet to break the driver's window, pulled him from his vehicle and then kicked and beat him mercilessly. Nine members of the gang pled guilty to criminal charges, while two, including the off-duty detective, have gone to trial. The one who braked suddenly in front of the driver, causing him to run over the biker and his motorcycle, is now suing the driver for his injuries. It would seem that the biker who provoked the incident should be legally responsible for his own injuries. "Thugs" are everywhere, even within the ranks of the NYPD, not just the one on trial in this incident, but also the one who murdered Eric Garner with an illegal chokehold!
3
Mr. Blow, please note that all of these bikers are "thugs" or more simply put, "criminals". They have been arrested, put in jail and await trial. White society is shocked by their vicious behavior and we are determined to get them off the street and in jail. This is how we deal with "thugs". They will in no way be martyrs. White society will make no excuses for their execrable behavior. Just saying, Mr. Blow, just saying.
9
Are you kidding? Thug is a tough guy/jerk. Outlaw is a criminal. Calling someone a tough guy/jerk is worse than calling someone a criminal? Seeing slights and racism everywhere?
Charles, maybe you ought to check your own racism?
Charles, maybe you ought to check your own racism?
9
As a faithful reader of Mr. Blow's columns, as an African-American female Clinical Psychology PhD candidate, on the precipice of starting my career of choice, in stark juxtaposition to the abject poverty in which I was reared, through an evolution of self-determination, working hard and becoming a more thoughtful, involved, articulate, educated, productive member of society- you know, embracing the whole "uplift" thing; I'd just like to add that I STILL face discrimination and racial slights regularly.
At first glance I can see others making mental shortcuts to compartmentalize me into classic bigoted boxes we often place others into, but upon closer interaction and inspection, when I don't fit- due my socioeconomic status and personal presentation, I experience cognitive dissonance with others that frustrates them and me. It is hurtful to know that a person can, on paper, do EVERYTHING right and still not be given the benefit of the doubt across myriad situations. How much worse must it be for other people of color or minority status with even less agency over their lives?...
At first glance I can see others making mental shortcuts to compartmentalize me into classic bigoted boxes we often place others into, but upon closer interaction and inspection, when I don't fit- due my socioeconomic status and personal presentation, I experience cognitive dissonance with others that frustrates them and me. It is hurtful to know that a person can, on paper, do EVERYTHING right and still not be given the benefit of the doubt across myriad situations. How much worse must it be for other people of color or minority status with even less agency over their lives?...
2
I dont envy you at all. Actually I am surprised that you haven't decided to move to some place like South Africa, Angola or Nigeria or elsewhere where everyone in the power structure is black and racism against blacks is incomprehensible for the majority of locals. Moving to a place where you are not defined by your race could be very liberating. I am surprised that there hasn't been a black brain drain to South Africa or some other fast developing African nation where the middle class is growing. Imagine all the advantages you would have there as an American, and no racism! Zero, nada. South Africa is beautiful country with all of the modern amenities, but it managed and dominated by a large black majority. You should definitely go there just to get a taste of it if you haven't already.
Those biker criminals are career criminals. All adults, some seniors.
White America really wants to place the issue of violence and crime at the feet of un whites(blacks).
Yes, there are crime issues in some communities, those issues are complex. A combination of structural disenfranchisement plays a huge part in this. However law and order is a national issue, not a racial issue.
For centuries the violence of this nation has brought us the near extermination of the indigenous peoples of America, the bodies of African slaves strewn on the floor of the Atlantic ocean is incalculable, the abuse and murder of Mexicans, Chinese and yes Jews is well documented. These acts were committed by Caucasians a character trait of America.
Lynching was so accepted by whites, families would after Sunday service went in droves to witness the murders. If you were white and didn't subscribe to the violence and hate, you were seen as a "suspect" white.
Blacks died violently and horrifically with no justice whatsoever. Leaving many families with no recompense or ability to address the trauma. They just cut down the charred mutilated body ,burying their loved one.
White America has a strong history of violence, even today there are many crimes committed by whites, unspoken of.
It is easier and more effective to highlight black violence/ crime. A method that has been around for a century or two.
It is all about messaging, perpetuating a convenient narrative to distract....
White America really wants to place the issue of violence and crime at the feet of un whites(blacks).
Yes, there are crime issues in some communities, those issues are complex. A combination of structural disenfranchisement plays a huge part in this. However law and order is a national issue, not a racial issue.
For centuries the violence of this nation has brought us the near extermination of the indigenous peoples of America, the bodies of African slaves strewn on the floor of the Atlantic ocean is incalculable, the abuse and murder of Mexicans, Chinese and yes Jews is well documented. These acts were committed by Caucasians a character trait of America.
Lynching was so accepted by whites, families would after Sunday service went in droves to witness the murders. If you were white and didn't subscribe to the violence and hate, you were seen as a "suspect" white.
Blacks died violently and horrifically with no justice whatsoever. Leaving many families with no recompense or ability to address the trauma. They just cut down the charred mutilated body ,burying their loved one.
White America has a strong history of violence, even today there are many crimes committed by whites, unspoken of.
It is easier and more effective to highlight black violence/ crime. A method that has been around for a century or two.
It is all about messaging, perpetuating a convenient narrative to distract....
3
It's more than semantics. To right-wingers these bikers are patriots who embody the American spirit bacause they believe in Second-Amendment Remedies--and because they can afford expensive bikes (they're "job creators", you see?) The people of Ferguson are looters and, yes, thugs who have no one but themselves to blame for being poor.
3
Isn't the mafia populated by "thugs"? I guess Mr. Blow would like to revise our language, and make himself the arbiter of all descriptions?
5
I am ever so greatful that I can wake up every morning without the thought that every opinion and judgment I make throughout the day will not be formed through a lens of race. Would that it would so for others...
5
TW: That luxury is what all Americans dream of.
The lesson is that if you have to tell your kid to watch out for crazy white people who might be feeling scared today, then that is a luxury not extended to you and should be something all fair-minded people want to change.
The lesson is that if you have to tell your kid to watch out for crazy white people who might be feeling scared today, then that is a luxury not extended to you and should be something all fair-minded people want to change.
1
Strike out in property destruction after years of abuse and oppression and you are a thug.
Strike out in shooting and killing over petty pride and you are a biker.
Strike out in stealing billions of dollars and thousands of homes for bigger bonuses and you are a banker.
Strike out in shooting and killing over petty pride and you are a biker.
Strike out in stealing billions of dollars and thousands of homes for bigger bonuses and you are a banker.
6
Ah, but the bankers do not use guns or chains or dynamite. And most do not belong to the NRA. They lie, cheat and steal legitimately.......
1
I don't think you understand the difference so I will make it easy for you and your followers to follow. The "Thugs" in Baltimore were looting, burning, and throwing rocks at cops whereas the "bikers" were beating up each other. Thugs destroyed business's and ruined their own community and now have to live in said community without a CVS/Check Cashing business/etc. Thugs destroy things under the guise of protest whereas the bikers beat and killed each other because they're idiots. Make sense?
5
"Make sense?"
Nope. You must have missed the part in all the reporting on this incident that said once the police intervened the bikers turned on the police. Also, firing guns in a public place, like a restaurant parking lot, is actually quite dangerous to bystanders.
Nope. You must have missed the part in all the reporting on this incident that said once the police intervened the bikers turned on the police. Also, firing guns in a public place, like a restaurant parking lot, is actually quite dangerous to bystanders.
Thank you, Charles Blow. It can't be said enough times: yes, race enters into other disturbances of the peace--no matter the age or relative innocence of the accused. Too many shootings of young black men, older black men, stomping on people, and the recent rash of riots underline your point. The prism through which we view outbreaks in the civil order of our lives is seen through race. All bikers are not criminals; all blacks are not thugs. To see the photos of all those men sitting on the curb after the melee is a great contrast to other scenes after similar outbreaks of outlaw behavior. Nine people were killed, and I doubt many Harley riders who are educated are wealthy are flashing their creds now.
Here is how "gun control" works in the black community: A young black man shopping at Wal-Mart picks up a toy gun from the shelf where it is offered for sale. A white Wal-Mart Shopper calls police and reports this. The police arrive and mow down the young black Wal-Mart shopper. Another example: a 12-year-old black boy goes to his neighborhood park with a pellet gun and imagines he's a cowboy or a gangster or whatever. A white person calls police. The police race to the scene and shoot the boy to death. Of course there are many other examples.
Here is how gun control works in the white community: A band of young white men armed to the teeth with automatic weapons invade a restaurant, terrifying the customers. The police are called. The police open a dialogue with the heavily armed "patriots." They come to an understanding. The police drive away. Example 2: A heavily militarized gang of bikers with long criminal records arrive en masse at a "breastaurant" with every imaginable kind of weapon. The police provide an escort so that everyone can have a good time. Violence breaks out. The police are forced to intervene, but after the violence ends, the bikers are treated with the utmost respect. A day later, the Texas Legislature passes a bill promoting more guns in the public arena, calling it by the affectionate nickname "campus carry." Of course, it's understood that this privilege does not extend to the black race.
Here is how gun control works in the white community: A band of young white men armed to the teeth with automatic weapons invade a restaurant, terrifying the customers. The police are called. The police open a dialogue with the heavily armed "patriots." They come to an understanding. The police drive away. Example 2: A heavily militarized gang of bikers with long criminal records arrive en masse at a "breastaurant" with every imaginable kind of weapon. The police provide an escort so that everyone can have a good time. Violence breaks out. The police are forced to intervene, but after the violence ends, the bikers are treated with the utmost respect. A day later, the Texas Legislature passes a bill promoting more guns in the public arena, calling it by the affectionate nickname "campus carry." Of course, it's understood that this privilege does not extend to the black race.
6
We should keep in mind that almost all of the killing done in the Waco melee was by the police firing on unarmed bikers.
The real problem is not that we use different words to describe the different kinds of victims of police violence, but the police violence itself, as well as the tendency of the authorities and the press to cover up the truth in the absence of videotape.
The correct word for a victim of unwarranted police violence is "victim". The correct word for the violent cop is "criminal".
The real problem is not that we use different words to describe the different kinds of victims of police violence, but the police violence itself, as well as the tendency of the authorities and the press to cover up the truth in the absence of videotape.
The correct word for a victim of unwarranted police violence is "victim". The correct word for the violent cop is "criminal".
2
"Unarmed bikers"? Are you kidding?
3
Two thoughts.
I personally don't think "black" when the word "thug" is used. It seems that many who have written also have this reaction. Do we need to continue to look for more code word offenses in media? Perhaps the energy would be better spent getting at solutions to the underlying problems. I'm not wild about adding another word to the "forbidden" list.
Second - Sociology offers some insights on the real race problems we face, and some big-picture things we need to consider. But we are still left with a thorny problem. How do we deal with actual crime - crimes against people and their property? (I omit the morality crimes including drugs - these are idiotic and actually add to the problem.) While race-conscious policing is a legitimate grievance that needs solving, there is no sociological justification that I accept that allows you to attack my person or property.
I don't want to understand why someone breaks into my house. I want the police to prevent or apprehend the perp - black or white, yellow or brown.
Seen in this light - this is the failure of "broken windows" policing, especially in minority neighborhoods. But it's also a failure of the communities when (as is often the case) the witnesses evaporate. Yet isn't that one manifestation of this "love" (or fear?)
Closing thought. We need less tribalism, not more. Black and white alike.
I personally don't think "black" when the word "thug" is used. It seems that many who have written also have this reaction. Do we need to continue to look for more code word offenses in media? Perhaps the energy would be better spent getting at solutions to the underlying problems. I'm not wild about adding another word to the "forbidden" list.
Second - Sociology offers some insights on the real race problems we face, and some big-picture things we need to consider. But we are still left with a thorny problem. How do we deal with actual crime - crimes against people and their property? (I omit the morality crimes including drugs - these are idiotic and actually add to the problem.) While race-conscious policing is a legitimate grievance that needs solving, there is no sociological justification that I accept that allows you to attack my person or property.
I don't want to understand why someone breaks into my house. I want the police to prevent or apprehend the perp - black or white, yellow or brown.
Seen in this light - this is the failure of "broken windows" policing, especially in minority neighborhoods. But it's also a failure of the communities when (as is often the case) the witnesses evaporate. Yet isn't that one manifestation of this "love" (or fear?)
Closing thought. We need less tribalism, not more. Black and white alike.
3
I wonder how the media and police would have responded if it had been black biker gangs getting together. There might have been some of those cast off military vehicles in attendance, and possibly more blood shed.
Last year we had a farmer illegally grazing his cattle on Federal land and not paying for it. His supporters came out heavily armed and there was a stand off.
We do treat black protesters differently.
Last year we had a farmer illegally grazing his cattle on Federal land and not paying for it. His supporters came out heavily armed and there was a stand off.
We do treat black protesters differently.
4
If I show you a photos of a leathered biker gang and ask what they have in common, one would say they are bikers. If I show you a photos of a group of black men dressed in jeans and tee-shirts and ask what they have in common, one would say they are black men. I think the news reporting went for the common denominator. Mr. Blow's job is to take all important news events and view them through his race-based lens, but not all news is about race. This one was about criminal biker gangs.
1
Well you provided a race-based lens also. The point is that we learn "the common denominator" in how to interpret whether they are "bikers" first or "black men" first.
This one is about criminal biker gangs catching a cultural break from the media, which provides the lens for who gets shot when some people get scared and need to "stand their ground". Just because it doesn't effect you does not mean that it is nonexistent.
This one is about criminal biker gangs catching a cultural break from the media, which provides the lens for who gets shot when some people get scared and need to "stand their ground". Just because it doesn't effect you does not mean that it is nonexistent.
To me it is very simple. White people are very frightened of Black people. In numerous studies White Americans have exhibited a primal fear of people of color. On one level this fear defies logic, but when given some historical perspective there is more meat on this sense of fear. Given the historical relationship of white and black residents of these here United States of America, I think us whites are getting off easy. I don't think there is any doubt that real or perceived antisocial behavior by Black citizens generally provokes a much stronger push back from the dominant American Culture.
2
Remember also Nevadan Cliven Bundy and his posse of armed "thugs" - all white - who were breaking federal law and stood off federal enforcers successfully with armed guns. Rather than confront Bundy and his gang, the feds backed off to prevent further violence. Remember how that was portrayed in the press, and now imagine if Cliven and his gang had been black.
4
It must have taken Mr. Blow several days of digging through the Waco story to finally find this flimsy difference to write another article depicting how poorly blacks are treated. So one group is outlaws and the other is thugs. If the titles had been reversed, Blow would have used those reversed terms to write the same article. The 'tone' of his article is nothing but racist rant. Why not write in a way that furthers our understanding of Ferguson and advances our society, than yet another spiteful slap at whites for some dubious doing.
I'm sorry but the word I would use generally is "stupidity" just as the circular firing squad of overwrought bikers was pretty dumb and deadly, the stupidity of Baltimorians burning their own neighborhood is also manifest. And I don't equate stupidity with race. There is, indeed, racism afoot in our country, but in the news coverage of these profoundly and sadly stupid events was not racist.
1
We glamorize G. I. Joe, the sniper, ... Men with the savage urge to kill become heroes.
4
Unless they are black.
3
Forget semantics. How about the optics of the white bikers sitting on the curb in custody not in handcuffs or zip ties .
Compare to the sister of the 12 year old kid shot dead in Cleveland within 2 seconds of the police arriving ("He was big for his age") and then his distraught teenage sister coming to his aide and being handcuffed and put in the back of a police car.
Compare to the sister of the 12 year old kid shot dead in Cleveland within 2 seconds of the police arriving ("He was big for his age") and then his distraught teenage sister coming to his aide and being handcuffed and put in the back of a police car.
4
For those who believe they are not racists, I invite them to take the Implicit Assocation Test: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/racframe.htm
Dude, the bikers that took part in Sunday are Thugs. Feel better?
I appreciate your concerns on race in this country, there are problems, this is a fact. However, when will a minority community begin to take some responsibility for their actions? There are reasons people become concerned about some minority communities. I for one do not appreciate going to a Starbucks with my 90 year old father to be accosted by a membe of a minority community to the point of fear for safety. Thankfully others saw, and called for police assistance.
Does anyone care to guess which minority community I am speaking of?
It kills me to type this, but I'm sorry, truth hurts sometimes.
I appreciate your concerns on race in this country, there are problems, this is a fact. However, when will a minority community begin to take some responsibility for their actions? There are reasons people become concerned about some minority communities. I for one do not appreciate going to a Starbucks with my 90 year old father to be accosted by a membe of a minority community to the point of fear for safety. Thankfully others saw, and called for police assistance.
Does anyone care to guess which minority community I am speaking of?
It kills me to type this, but I'm sorry, truth hurts sometimes.
1
Blow's own race consistently sabotages their own societal advancement time and time again, yet he doesn't falter in his defense or acknowledge the shortcomings.
Most people do not have interactions with bikers; they see them on the road a group once in a while, hear about their illegal doings, but one really have to go out of his or her way to find bikers. Go to a biker bar or engage in illegal activities for which the bikers are involved.
On the flip side, here in Cincinnati, I have to take an Uber from the nicer revitalized urban areas back home downtown, because of the fact the area between where I'm at and downtown is littered with disenfranchised African Americans, and a high crime rate. Bikers are causing me no issues here. Interestingly, as anyone who lives here can attest, the only 'bikers' are the same African Americans riding loud motor bikes downtown to create lots of noise during the night. If this is how one race consistently is presenting itself, then it will be dealt with as such.
Also, I do not see bikers pillaging Waco Texas, destroying Waco Texas or disrupting the very fabric of the community over being arrested. Bikers having guns is a moot point. All criminals do.
So what's your point here, Blow? You say one thing, Africans American do another, so I can't really get behind any of the articles you write.
Most people do not have interactions with bikers; they see them on the road a group once in a while, hear about their illegal doings, but one really have to go out of his or her way to find bikers. Go to a biker bar or engage in illegal activities for which the bikers are involved.
On the flip side, here in Cincinnati, I have to take an Uber from the nicer revitalized urban areas back home downtown, because of the fact the area between where I'm at and downtown is littered with disenfranchised African Americans, and a high crime rate. Bikers are causing me no issues here. Interestingly, as anyone who lives here can attest, the only 'bikers' are the same African Americans riding loud motor bikes downtown to create lots of noise during the night. If this is how one race consistently is presenting itself, then it will be dealt with as such.
Also, I do not see bikers pillaging Waco Texas, destroying Waco Texas or disrupting the very fabric of the community over being arrested. Bikers having guns is a moot point. All criminals do.
So what's your point here, Blow? You say one thing, Africans American do another, so I can't really get behind any of the articles you write.
Are you kidding? bikers fighting over your neighborhood for their territory and kids as a target market for their meth sales? I would consider that "pillaging". These are not weekend warrior fat dads on 3-wheelers, this is organized crime bringing cartel activity to your door.
If you know any addicts, you might not think that is very different than having your town burn down.
If you know any addicts, you might not think that is very different than having your town burn down.
Speaking as a black man, this is ridiculous. In Waco, the description was (as Mr. Blow acknowledges) accurate AND pejorative. The media did not call them "motorcycle clubs" or "enthusiasts" as the members of that community would prefer. They called them "gangs" and "outlaws," which is what they were. That is merely a very specific subset of thug made appropriate by their clear association with a certain type of vehicle... motorcycles. Had they been on foot, they probably would have been called thugs as well. I don't think any of the criminals who lit up Baltimore would've been happier if they had been called a gang instead of thugs, which to me, makes this a straw man argument. What it comes down to is that they (meaning people who break the law), don't like to be called what they are. The police in New York didn't like it when they were called a gang, but when they behave like a gang, they get the label they've earned. Let's separate this from a racial slur, which applies unfairly to groups of people based upon something they cannot control. I've never been called a thug... probably because I've never engaged in thuggish behavior. I've also never been labeled as gangster... probably because I've never joined a gang. I've never been called a con man... probably because I never ran UBS. The point is, I'm not overly concerned if a thug, gangster, rioter, arsonist, outlaw, or anyone else who fits the description approves of my word choice. I know what I see.
2
I think the problem we face around the globe is the existence of groups. Lines of demarcation, traditions, group identification, and any other defining group characteristic, serve to create the "other". The other is not as good as one's group and so it should be treated in a negative fashion. Groups or subsets of people need to be eliminated so that we have one group: we'll call "humans".
1
Apparently the point of this guy's rambling whine is that if the news media doesn't consistently refer to violent White bikers as "thugs", it's yet another sign of White racism.
The truth is that he's disappointed that the recent rioting in Ferguson-Baltimore didn't get the warm media coverage that Blacks enjoyed back in the 60s. Blacks want to redo the Civil Rights Era all over again, with America obsessed about poverty, racism, etc. etc., and pouring trillions of Americans' wealth into Black communities.
Been there. Done that. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Blacks need to clean up their own mess. And if they fail, it's nobody's fault but their own.
The truth is that he's disappointed that the recent rioting in Ferguson-Baltimore didn't get the warm media coverage that Blacks enjoyed back in the 60s. Blacks want to redo the Civil Rights Era all over again, with America obsessed about poverty, racism, etc. etc., and pouring trillions of Americans' wealth into Black communities.
Been there. Done that. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Blacks need to clean up their own mess. And if they fail, it's nobody's fault but their own.
2
I guess what comes to the forefront of my mind is why do blacks in America put up with this treatment? Where are the black leaders and role models? Is Dr. King the only one? Where are the cries of outrage? Why put up with the status quo created by white society and "accepted" by black society? There should be a new determination to make things better. Education should be on a pedestal with the realization that you cannot get ahead without knowledge. Acceptance of the unacceptable must stop. No it is not "cool" to have 5 children with 5 different women. No it is not "cool" to have children out of wedlock. No it is not "cool" to live off of government subsidies. It is not "cool" to accept what life gives. It is "cool" to take the wonderful opportunity offered here in the U.S. and go for it. And to do it, the black community must come together and make it happen.
1
It seems there is more information to come out. The 170 some arrestees cannot all be guilty, especially under Texas laws, yet they are being held in lieu of million dollar bonds. How many of the dead and wounded were shot by police? How many uninvolved bystanders? How thorough will be the investigation? Will the media keep covering it?
Whatever you call them, those are some creepy meth-head gun-totin Texans. I wish Texas would just secede again! And build a big big wall around it to keep them in.
I'm usually with you, Charles, but you lost me with this piece.
Had there been a Black motorcycle gang involved in the Waco violence, do you think its members would have been characterized differently? I don't think so.
I reject the premise that the word 'thug' has racial connotations. Thugs terrorize everyday people in their own neighborhoods. As far as I can tell, motorcycle gangs--White, Black or otherwise--do no such thing.
Look, I understand that self-love is part of the solution. But the 'hatred of black skin' of which you speak, at least in a 21st century context, has more to do with culture than race. That culture clearly developed as a response to racial hatred, but what we're left with is a rejection by Black culture of many of the 'White' things that should be lifting Blacks up: education, cohesive families, and so on.
So, in effect, we've got a chicken and egg dilemma in which Blacks cling to a destructive culture because they feel marginalized and because that distinct sub-culture gives them ownership of something, while Whites find it easier and safer to reject and dismiss a seemingly separatist 'Black' culture as angry, violent, and not in tune with the values of the larger culture.
And around and around we go.
Had there been a Black motorcycle gang involved in the Waco violence, do you think its members would have been characterized differently? I don't think so.
I reject the premise that the word 'thug' has racial connotations. Thugs terrorize everyday people in their own neighborhoods. As far as I can tell, motorcycle gangs--White, Black or otherwise--do no such thing.
Look, I understand that self-love is part of the solution. But the 'hatred of black skin' of which you speak, at least in a 21st century context, has more to do with culture than race. That culture clearly developed as a response to racial hatred, but what we're left with is a rejection by Black culture of many of the 'White' things that should be lifting Blacks up: education, cohesive families, and so on.
So, in effect, we've got a chicken and egg dilemma in which Blacks cling to a destructive culture because they feel marginalized and because that distinct sub-culture gives them ownership of something, while Whites find it easier and safer to reject and dismiss a seemingly separatist 'Black' culture as angry, violent, and not in tune with the values of the larger culture.
And around and around we go.
1
Oh please, if the rioters in Ferguson or Baltimore had been called "gangs" that would've been racist for assuming that all inner city black youths are gangmembers.
Would you prefer we just refer to all criminals are "misguided gentlemen"?
Would you prefer we just refer to all criminals are "misguided gentlemen"?
2
Thank you, Mr. Blow, for another thought-provoking article, I always appreciate your viewpoint.
I did wonder if these gangs had been black if the situation would have been treated differently and perhaps the National Guard called in to fire at will.
I haven't heard the NRA ruling, but assume it will be that more guns were needed. You know, to keep the peace...
I did wonder if these gangs had been black if the situation would have been treated differently and perhaps the National Guard called in to fire at will.
I haven't heard the NRA ruling, but assume it will be that more guns were needed. You know, to keep the peace...
1
The right have conducted a dubious yet very successful campaign to define black people in a derogatory and negative fashion since they got here several hundred years ago. Every negative characteristic under the book is ascribed to black people. Any blacks who by good fortune, hard work or a combination of both manage to defy these negative characteristics are defined as the rare exception to the rule. The difference is in the past there were great black leaders such as Frederick Douglas, Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, Marcus Garvey, Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X who effectively countered the narrative put out there by the white establishment. Today the campaign and the spin to ascribe negative characteristics to all blacks continue unchallenged with the exception of a few people like yourself Mr Blow. You may one day be counted among the heroes I just mentioned.
1
Another way of looking at this is that 9 people were killed and 18 injured in a fight where police were shooting but none of the dead or wounded were cops. If this were a black-white situation, wouldn't more be made of this?
Oh please! This guy sees a racist behind every door. It would be interesting to see him write about something else for a change, that is if he could.
1
Clinging to victim status for all black people does not advance the cause, it keeps people down. Violence is violence and it has no color. We can love the "brown bodies" while still rejecting violence. "We must love our flesh hard because the world hates it hard." This is absurd. What the world hates is senseless violence, regardless of the color of the perpetrator.
1
In this case the police were hyper aware of the potential for violence, had gathered around the area, and were ready for the worst which, as we know, did happen. Just like riots. Unhappily police preparedness for violence is assumed to be rascist in Black communities and a violation of free speech in White.
And, by the way, Mr. Blow, Obama used the word thugs to describe people who were Coopting protests & anger at the police to find an excuse to commit violence (thuggery) against their neighbors. Their criminal acts weren't because of racial injustice and had the effect of reinforcing ugly stereotypes of young black men; that's the same thing that happened at the Twin Peaks, now we can be justifiabley be afraid of all men on Harleys. The ugliness of stereotyping is revealed because the fact is the majority of young black men & bikers are decent, loving, and hard working people.
To take the position, using parsed semantics and preconceived ideas, to assume racist attitudes in what criminals are called is false and unnecessarily divisive.
Let's get get over ourselves, ALL lives matter.
And, by the way, Mr. Blow, Obama used the word thugs to describe people who were Coopting protests & anger at the police to find an excuse to commit violence (thuggery) against their neighbors. Their criminal acts weren't because of racial injustice and had the effect of reinforcing ugly stereotypes of young black men; that's the same thing that happened at the Twin Peaks, now we can be justifiabley be afraid of all men on Harleys. The ugliness of stereotyping is revealed because the fact is the majority of young black men & bikers are decent, loving, and hard working people.
To take the position, using parsed semantics and preconceived ideas, to assume racist attitudes in what criminals are called is false and unnecessarily divisive.
Let's get get over ourselves, ALL lives matter.
1
I use the word thug to connote destructive, bullying, violent behavior. I do not attach any racial context to my use of the word. From the moment I first learned about the horror in Waco, I characterized these people as thugs. If others use the word in a racial context, then please call them out for that. But I will continue to describe people like the violent bikers in Waco or like George Zimmerman in Florida as thugs.
1
I wonder, if this were an all black biker gang, what would have been the police response? Would it have been any different?
2
Mr. Blow is unlucky in his timing. A front-page, above the fold, article in the same issue of the NY Times is , "Basketball Prodigy’s Death Spurs City to Act". This article says far more about the real world than Mr. Blow's prosaic agonizing.
I think Mr. Blow should pay less attention to words and more attention to facts.
I think Mr. Blow should pay less attention to words and more attention to facts.
1
This complaint about the supposed difference in attitudes toward the Waco gangsters and the Ferguson-Baltimore thugs, based on an also supposed choice of words is pure bunk. First, it was a Baltimore Black politician who created this media "story" by criticising Baltimore's Black mayor (not the media) for calling rioters thugs, asserting ludicrously that this was like using the N-word to describe them. By and large the Baltimore rioters were described in the media mostly as rioters, looters or even angry protesters. Meanwhile, the Waco thugs were described in the media frequently as biker gangs for no worse reason than that they are gangs of bikers. The implication by Blow that this is somehow white America distaining Blacks while romanticising whites is poppycock.
Second, those of us who are hard-nosed about the huge problem of crime in America have no illusions about violent white criminals like the Waco gangs, as well as no patience for those like Blow who would have society treat criminals as victims rather than a scourge to all law-abiding people.
Second, those of us who are hard-nosed about the huge problem of crime in America have no illusions about violent white criminals like the Waco gangs, as well as no patience for those like Blow who would have society treat criminals as victims rather than a scourge to all law-abiding people.
3
"[Thug life] is applied to — and even adopted by — black men."
I think Blow is telling a little stretcher here. I think black men adopted the phrase 'thug life' and similar usages from rappers and the mainstream culture did, too.
Criminals are criminals. They should get equal treatment in the justice system but they do not because racism is institutionalized. But this institutional injustice does not happen because some Fox News "journalist' curls his lip when he says 'thug'.
I think Blow is telling a little stretcher here. I think black men adopted the phrase 'thug life' and similar usages from rappers and the mainstream culture did, too.
Criminals are criminals. They should get equal treatment in the justice system but they do not because racism is institutionalized. But this institutional injustice does not happen because some Fox News "journalist' curls his lip when he says 'thug'.
2
I see your point, but honestly . . . thug, outlaw, criminal, Texan . . .whatever.
2
The violence in Waco does suggest something about biker culture especially in Texas. It is interest that Mr. Blow is quick to be offended by the characterization of the rioters in Baltimore but did not criticize those who used the shooting in Ferguson to characterize all cops or even all Whites.
1
I checked time and found plenty of references that referred to biker gang members as thugs. For example, a headline in the October 3, 2013 edition of the NY Post: "Cops set to arrest biker thug No. 1." Another example is in an article in the February 13, 1999 edition of The Guardian, entitled, "Riders on the storm," about a fight between the Outcasts and the Hells Angels: "On one hand there was moral outrage, on the other a sense that the bikers were neanderthal thugs who deserved what they got." Bill Buford wrote a book about British soccer fans entitled, "Among the Thugs."
I think Mr. Blow and many other Black writers are tragic figures. They see all life in a light bent by passage through a prism of race. They wake up thinking about it; they live their days with it; they go to bed with it; and they dream about it. It must be a terrible existence. Their every human encounter is affected by race consciousness, stronger at some times than at others, but always present in their minds. Every event is cast in the racial light. I can only hope that the prism of race will be shattered one day, so they can see the world in other, hopefully brighter, light.
I think Mr. Blow and many other Black writers are tragic figures. They see all life in a light bent by passage through a prism of race. They wake up thinking about it; they live their days with it; they go to bed with it; and they dream about it. It must be a terrible existence. Their every human encounter is affected by race consciousness, stronger at some times than at others, but always present in their minds. Every event is cast in the racial light. I can only hope that the prism of race will be shattered one day, so they can see the world in other, hopefully brighter, light.
1
Charles--at a certain point-- "comparisons are odious". Is this really going to be your new subject--to analyze upon every tragic outburst of violence and parse the media reaction for the bogeyman of racial bias? I somehow suspect you'll only be deflecting energy away from the real problem.
2
Where was the love of the rioters in Ferguson to their neighbors who lost jobs and businesses ? Where was the love in creating destruction and shooting at police? The love is now evident among the embers of the neighborhood. Charles Blow consistently makes excuses and blames whites for the all the problems of his race. He does not even consider that many of the problems are self inflicted. The issue is not about semantics but about criminals both white and black and excuses don't cut it.
102
I don't think you could ask for a better juxtaposition than Baltimore and Waco to prove your point Mr. Blow. The point you are making however is painfully and sadly obvious. When will it ever end, that is the real question.
2
Mr. Blow your attempt to find racism behind every crime is invalid. The public's opinion of black crime is built upon the continual flow of valid news reports featuring the murder of innocents, random violence , and yes thuggery.
This report from today's NYT is typical : "Too Late for a Basketball Prodigy, Paterson Seeks a Truce". The novel part of this specific story is that the neighborhood is fed up with the violence and is attempting to stop it. In reading the reactions of the young black men to the effort, it sounds like it is doomed to fail. A secondary tragedy.
Don't delude yourself (or your readers) to think that white murderers and violence are not reported. Where is the value in denying that there is a problem in urban black communities?
I worked in the civil rights movement during the sixties. It breaks my heart to see that effort wasted by these denials. There is a broken moral compass and it needs fixing.
This report from today's NYT is typical : "Too Late for a Basketball Prodigy, Paterson Seeks a Truce". The novel part of this specific story is that the neighborhood is fed up with the violence and is attempting to stop it. In reading the reactions of the young black men to the effort, it sounds like it is doomed to fail. A secondary tragedy.
Don't delude yourself (or your readers) to think that white murderers and violence are not reported. Where is the value in denying that there is a problem in urban black communities?
I worked in the civil rights movement during the sixties. It breaks my heart to see that effort wasted by these denials. There is a broken moral compass and it needs fixing.
2
I seem to remember Michael Brown being labeled as a "gentle giant" by the media - after aggressively robbing a gas station.
It goes both ways Mr. Blow.
It goes both ways Mr. Blow.
3
The narrative is the same........when whites "act up", there's a good reason for it, but black men are labeled as thugs, hoodlums, and all the other negative terms are applied when they stand up against oppression. The media is complicit in how these images are portrayed.
1
"Thugs" to my mind is a word I first and foremost associate with organized criminal syndicates - including but far from limited to the various Mafias. Not just the Gambino family et al, but very much folks like Whitey Bulger and a host of similar ilk. The key to being thuggish is some level of organization and preying upon the unsuspecting with the threat or infliction of violence.
Bikers can be quite thuggish, though in this case this was more of an intramural battle, it seems. If they had swept down on non-bikers, the thuggish aspect would be more salient.
Bikers can be quite thuggish, though in this case this was more of an intramural battle, it seems. If they had swept down on non-bikers, the thuggish aspect would be more salient.
1
And what if the bikers were Muslims?
2
What is so unnerving about these daily atrocities that occur in all communities and countries, is watching the horror on the faces of plain civilians going about their business, trying to make a living, trying to raise a family, and finding themselves caught up in some Mad Max movie.
Dear NYT Editors,
This column is your worst nightmare; a predictable bore.
This column is your worst nightmare; a predictable bore.
However it was reported, it's obvious to me, and most likely to millions of other intelligent people, that "outlaw bikers" are also "thugs". The photographs of the aftermath didn't look romantic to me. Rather, they seemed to portray a bunch over mostly overfed, juvenile Caucasian men who mistake a Harley for masculinity.
With regard to the response by police and the absence of riot-gear, I note that Waco has not had any neighborhoods looted and burned as a result of the shootout. No innocent people were injured or killed. And there are no biker wannabees out on the street calling for "justice for bikers."
And last, this whole thing happened in Texas, which to me is more like a foreign country than one of the United States. As any Texan will tell you, it has its own peculiar ethos. That is a fact.
Mr. Blow is comparing apples and oranges.
With regard to the response by police and the absence of riot-gear, I note that Waco has not had any neighborhoods looted and burned as a result of the shootout. No innocent people were injured or killed. And there are no biker wannabees out on the street calling for "justice for bikers."
And last, this whole thing happened in Texas, which to me is more like a foreign country than one of the United States. As any Texan will tell you, it has its own peculiar ethos. That is a fact.
Mr. Blow is comparing apples and oranges.
1
Thank you, Mr. Blow, for two things: (1) for calling out what I was noticing myself about the huge disparities in the language around Waco v. Baltimore and Ferguson; and (2) for providing people an alternative to hate and despair, for something concrete that we can actually do to create change.
Here's a generalization that holds true. The dominant culture, white male, minimizes the wrongdoing of its members, while exaggerating those of others, black, women and all minorities. The dominant culture has dibs on defining Reality, and so chooses its words to match.
1
"Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture or Hispanic culture? Even the question sounds ridiculous — and yet we don’t hesitate to ask such questions around black violence, and to answer it, in the affirmative." Mr. Blow asked.
Are we then to point to yet another way whites and others exert their prejudices? Even the way people talk, or what gets written in the papers or told on TV or the internet, seems up for scrutiny. We have kept looking for these signs of bias. But in the process, we are certainly whipping up more ammunition to use against those perpetrators of the inequalities that have lasted so long in America.
In the process, couldn't that explain the many protests? Not to say protests aren't called for, but the amount of violence done in these protests might have been made the worse. And in whipping up the claims of bias as good reason enough to get mad, are we giving less violent means, less chance to work?
And to really ask the question if black violence is more 'universal' than that of some other race, we should consider how universally members of a race subscribe to, and say that, such violence is all right with them.
Most whites don't think crime or violence is EVER very justifiable.
But Mr. Blow seems to think something like subscribing to violence, being more universal ... is actually alright for blacks, but NOT for whites?
Are we then to point to yet another way whites and others exert their prejudices? Even the way people talk, or what gets written in the papers or told on TV or the internet, seems up for scrutiny. We have kept looking for these signs of bias. But in the process, we are certainly whipping up more ammunition to use against those perpetrators of the inequalities that have lasted so long in America.
In the process, couldn't that explain the many protests? Not to say protests aren't called for, but the amount of violence done in these protests might have been made the worse. And in whipping up the claims of bias as good reason enough to get mad, are we giving less violent means, less chance to work?
And to really ask the question if black violence is more 'universal' than that of some other race, we should consider how universally members of a race subscribe to, and say that, such violence is all right with them.
Most whites don't think crime or violence is EVER very justifiable.
But Mr. Blow seems to think something like subscribing to violence, being more universal ... is actually alright for blacks, but NOT for whites?
1
For the sake of disclosure,I'm white.And in my opinion the "thug " label would perfectly fit these particular bikers,especially given how many members of the general public they endangered.The proportion of the bikers who engaged in the Waco violence was much bigger than the portion of the protesters over police shootings unarmed African-Americans who rioted.
Mr. Blow - in general your articles are good, but I think you're overreaching here. When I hear "Thugs" I think of any thick-necked types of any race doing criminal things that involve physical force. I don't think the word connotes specifically black males to a lot of people but it is rightly applied to black males if they are engaged in thuggish activity. I agree with you completely that violent bikers are much too much given a pass in the public consciousness because of misplaced romanticism. I do - however - disagree with you about the father in the home. Having the father in the home does make a difference and is a major contributor to the problems in the black community. Moynihan took an unjustified beating for pointing that out but remember that his observation was also based on the historical experience of his Irish ancstors and relatives. He was not picking on black folk because of race.
3
The media has a great deal to do with shaping public perception. It is responsible for crafting the message of fear that interjects all of American life. Division is a money making strategy whether it be the us vs. them thinking of Christians vs. Muslims, gays vs. straights, Shia vs. Sunni tribalism, urban vs. rural, men vs. women, religious vs. atheist or white vs. black egotism. Splitting is a classic defense mechanism which tends to simplify scenarios by conveniently categorizing one as good & the other as bad. The problem with division is that it sets up a power struggle between opposing subgroups.
Narcissists use idealization & devaluation to rationalize their narcissistic rage injury. The media uses this strategy to portray the US presence in Iraq as heroic while the threat of ISIS as evil in a classic egoistic vein. The motorcyle "thugs" who identify as the 1% use narcissism in a similar way by believing they are above the law as they engage in extreme violence, sex trafficking, drug dealing, extortion & bribery of law enforcement. Many are veterans of the Iraq War who became hooked on the excitement of killing & the feeling of control that the military afforded them.
The situations in Ferguson & Baltimore are reflective of systemic racism, an unfair criminal justice system as well as issues of personal responsibility. Sociology doesn't compare subgroups but rather attempts to deconstruct them on an individual, case by case basis within a holistic context.
Narcissists use idealization & devaluation to rationalize their narcissistic rage injury. The media uses this strategy to portray the US presence in Iraq as heroic while the threat of ISIS as evil in a classic egoistic vein. The motorcyle "thugs" who identify as the 1% use narcissism in a similar way by believing they are above the law as they engage in extreme violence, sex trafficking, drug dealing, extortion & bribery of law enforcement. Many are veterans of the Iraq War who became hooked on the excitement of killing & the feeling of control that the military afforded them.
The situations in Ferguson & Baltimore are reflective of systemic racism, an unfair criminal justice system as well as issues of personal responsibility. Sociology doesn't compare subgroups but rather attempts to deconstruct them on an individual, case by case basis within a holistic context.
2
The Thugs in Waco went to jail immediately, while the Thugs in Baltimore were left alone to do as they pleased. The white guys got jail, some of the black ones are waiting for their pay check from ACORN. The while thugs beat on each other and did not destroy blocks of homes and businesses. Thuggery is not a racist term or issue, it applies to organized criminals of any type.
1
For once I disagree with Mr. Blow. "Gang" is a pejorative in every sense of the term, and it was for a time in the 1980s and 1990s linked to anyone in a hoodie in Los Angeles. Add that to "biker," which has only partly been rehabilitated in the land that spawned the Hells Angels, and you have a truly frightening label. I agree with Mr. Blow's observations about the characterization of the crowd and violence in Ferguson and Baltimore, but the rhetoric surrounding Waco is not as dissimilar as he suggests.
2
This column is badly written and essentially dishonest. The analogy between the Waco bikers and the rioters in Baltimore is bizarre. The Waco gangs are clearly criminal. None of these criminals walked out of their high school classroom and attacked a local drugstore because they didn't feel enough love. No one is making the case that biker gangs are made up of disadvantaged youth. No one pretends that "hate" and fear of the "other" are the reasons why bikers kill each other.
What worries me most about this sort of writing is that it loses Democrats votes. There are liberals out there who really dislike this kind of writing. We don't hate it and we don't hate Mr. Blow, but we get very tired of the weak arguments and the self-congratulatory tone. We are all for help to black communities and for that matter, to white communities that need it. But we would like to hear less talk about hate and love and stereotypes.
What worries me most about this sort of writing is that it loses Democrats votes. There are liberals out there who really dislike this kind of writing. We don't hate it and we don't hate Mr. Blow, but we get very tired of the weak arguments and the self-congratulatory tone. We are all for help to black communities and for that matter, to white communities that need it. But we would like to hear less talk about hate and love and stereotypes.
2
"violent that a local police spokesman called the crime scene the bloodiest he had ever seen included “biker clubs,” “gangs” and “outlaw motorcycle gangs.”
OK, that's a personal perception. All sorts of white violence and slaughter has been around a long time.
"We must build our own fortifications against systems and structures of brutality and subjugation that have long endured — that break us and blame us for the breaking."
I empathize, but there's more than that. We need to quit being the most imprisoning nation in the world.
http://gawker.com/5987617/were-locking-up-fewer-black-people-and-more-wh...
#1!) Needless to say, we've accomplished that feat largely on the backs of minorities, particularly black people, who are incarcerated at more than six times the rate of white people.
.... but,
From 2000 to 2009, the incarceration rate of white men rose 8.5%, and of white women, 47%(!). For black people, the story was the opposite: during the same decade, incarceration rates in state and federal prison for black men fell by 9.8%, and for black women, by 30.7%(!).
OK, that's a personal perception. All sorts of white violence and slaughter has been around a long time.
"We must build our own fortifications against systems and structures of brutality and subjugation that have long endured — that break us and blame us for the breaking."
I empathize, but there's more than that. We need to quit being the most imprisoning nation in the world.
http://gawker.com/5987617/were-locking-up-fewer-black-people-and-more-wh...
#1!) Needless to say, we've accomplished that feat largely on the backs of minorities, particularly black people, who are incarcerated at more than six times the rate of white people.
.... but,
From 2000 to 2009, the incarceration rate of white men rose 8.5%, and of white women, 47%(!). For black people, the story was the opposite: during the same decade, incarceration rates in state and federal prison for black men fell by 9.8%, and for black women, by 30.7%(!).
I understand why your current focus has been on race and it is very important for you to continue to keep this in full attention. I also understand the responders' frustration with black on white arguments. This is a matter of criminality. I don't care if you call them thugs, banksters, charlatans, mafia, Latin Kings, terrorists what have you. If the band of people had turbans, we'd call them one thing, if they wore hoodies, another and the list goes on.
I do agree that there seems to be a disparaging way the media labels any black mayhem as opposed to white mayhem. White kids in Boston were "celebrating" a championship and a young girl was shot in the eye by police and killed. They turned over cars and lit fires too and burned their own neighborhoods. But black kids are a menace and burning down their own neighborhoods. Well, not quite. They are actually mostly renting their neighborhoods. It's easy to see the hypocrisy.
But the media also seems to do a continued loop of the one black kid who can barely form a sentence and looks scary as hell wearing a bandana around his face. Can you really blame people for turning the dial? An intelligent discussion about race relations delivered by a panel of accomplished African Americans doesn't play as well on the news so they run that. The response in Boston was furious toward the police even though they were acting exactly the same as Baltimore. A lot of us get it but the media needs to change the narrative.
I do agree that there seems to be a disparaging way the media labels any black mayhem as opposed to white mayhem. White kids in Boston were "celebrating" a championship and a young girl was shot in the eye by police and killed. They turned over cars and lit fires too and burned their own neighborhoods. But black kids are a menace and burning down their own neighborhoods. Well, not quite. They are actually mostly renting their neighborhoods. It's easy to see the hypocrisy.
But the media also seems to do a continued loop of the one black kid who can barely form a sentence and looks scary as hell wearing a bandana around his face. Can you really blame people for turning the dial? An intelligent discussion about race relations delivered by a panel of accomplished African Americans doesn't play as well on the news so they run that. The response in Boston was furious toward the police even though they were acting exactly the same as Baltimore. A lot of us get it but the media needs to change the narrative.
What a shock. Charles Blow complaining that white thugs are treated better than black thugs in the media. There truly is a race card to play in any scenario it seems.
3
Many of us are are greedy and power hungry. We believe that we are the entitled ones.
It is by the luck of the draw and because of the problems in our economic model that some of us are unreasonably wealthy; not because we are genetically superior to others.
The fact is that our Tree of Liberty is being poisoned to its roots by the love of money for money's sake, the love of power and control over others for the sake of demeaning others, and the love of self for the sake of feeling superior to others.
We need to:
-Genuinely love our neighbors and our selves.
-Increase taxes on unreasonably wealthy corporations and individuals.
-Use some of the resulting revenue to pay off the debt and develop economic opportunities in America.
-Use some of the resulting revenue so that poverty will be eliminated and every one of us can have sufficient incomes and live healthy lives here in America.
-Provide education for everyone so that the wealthiest and the least wealthy among us can learn how to responsibly manage our incomes, including disposable income.
Those of us who are wealthy will still be very wealthy, just not unreasonably wealthy.
Our consciences will be clearer. We will behave more constructively with one another. Very few of us, Americans, will act in ways to cause another American's life to be worthless.
Our greed is unhealthy our children and other living things.
The enemy is us.
It is by the luck of the draw and because of the problems in our economic model that some of us are unreasonably wealthy; not because we are genetically superior to others.
The fact is that our Tree of Liberty is being poisoned to its roots by the love of money for money's sake, the love of power and control over others for the sake of demeaning others, and the love of self for the sake of feeling superior to others.
We need to:
-Genuinely love our neighbors and our selves.
-Increase taxes on unreasonably wealthy corporations and individuals.
-Use some of the resulting revenue to pay off the debt and develop economic opportunities in America.
-Use some of the resulting revenue so that poverty will be eliminated and every one of us can have sufficient incomes and live healthy lives here in America.
-Provide education for everyone so that the wealthiest and the least wealthy among us can learn how to responsibly manage our incomes, including disposable income.
Those of us who are wealthy will still be very wealthy, just not unreasonably wealthy.
Our consciences will be clearer. We will behave more constructively with one another. Very few of us, Americans, will act in ways to cause another American's life to be worthless.
Our greed is unhealthy our children and other living things.
The enemy is us.
A) President Obama called the rioters in Baltimore thugs. B) Baltimore's Mayor called the rioters in Baltimore thugs. C) The outlaw gangs in Waco Texas are being prosecuted. D) the Baltimore rioters, not so much.
2
Charles,whilst I agree with all your points about racial prejudice,I believe the issue here is different.Bikers have both the romantic mantle of "borderline' rebels or outlaws and the less romantic mantle of "white trash" amongst a significant element of our society.Their appearance ,dress and equipment feed the romantic image and "excuse" their behavior.The white trash component,which is the driver of their behavior, is seen as a "no go" topic by most of the media.This ambivalence creates the difference in "tone" relative to coverage of events such as Ferguson where the audience is to be sympathetic either to predominantly black "perpetrators"or a predominantly white police force.
1
Anyone who reads Mr. Blow's "Of bikers and Thugs" and feels uncomfortable, perturbed or disagrees with his truth, would be wise to take a good look in the mirror at first opportunity. What do you see? Blackness? Whiteness? Privilege? My Blackness resonates with Mr. Blows truth and the countless young Melaninated people on social media who instantly saw the hypocrisy in media coverage. I doubt many people can acknowledge the truth presented in this column but as Mr. Blow suggested, I boldly, defiantly, proudly, unapologetically love my Blackness with all the strength of my ancestors and the glorious power of the universe. I can stand strong against the onslaught of American racism.
I recommend the book, "Seeing Heaven in the Face of Black Men" by Todd Ewing as an eloquent vision of hope and reconciliation. He describes his journey and experiences many of the things Black men face in this society. He also presents the view that it is possible to achieve unity between the races, and this tender shoot of oneness is already taking root in our society in a real (not Pollyanna) way. We have a way to go, but the seeds are already planted in the hearts. We all have to work to bring in the harvest, and what a rich harvest it will be.
"Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture or Hispanic culture? Even the question sounds ridiculous — and yet we don’t hesitate to ask such questions around black violence, and to answer it, in the affirmative. And invariably, the single-mother, absent-father trope is dragged out."
I don't recall the last time such violence broke out involving motorcycle gangs but black on black violence occur daily in America's inner cities. Are you making excuses for absentee fathers and unwed single mothers now Mr. Blow?
I don't recall the last time such violence broke out involving motorcycle gangs but black on black violence occur daily in America's inner cities. Are you making excuses for absentee fathers and unwed single mothers now Mr. Blow?
3
It's really difficult to read some of the comments here and try to grasp that they are in response to Mr. Blow's brilliant essay. They are overwhelming proof of the blind racism that pervades every aspect of our society. Any time anyone calls out racist behavior they are accused of pulling out the "race card" whatever on earth that is. So in the minds of the deniers of racism no one should ever point it out or bring it up or condemn it. These deniers are blinded by their own racism and are incapable or unwilling to acknowledge or take any responsibility for its prevalence. It is a danger to all of us and is destroying our society.
1
While I generally admire Mr. Blow's columns, I am unsure how he came to assume the word "thug" is code for "black". Remember the Far Right referring to government personnel as "jack booted thugs", particularly in the tragic case at the David Koresh compound, coincidentally also in Waco. I grew up thinking of thugs simply as gangsters, primarily white, extorting protection money from businesses under threat of violence.
2
Thanks for pointing that out. My own response to the Waco shoot-out was precisely that they are backwards drug-addled gun-fueled cowboy thugs who haven't gotten past their childhood dreams of glory that would rescue them from - perish the thought - their dismal white trash families. Unfortunately I can't claim to be unbiased, just that my perspective is different.
To add, I am not entirely surprised that the US is experiencing gun violence of some sort (no idea of the racial breakdown) pretty much every week. I estimate that they're still making and selling weapons at a rate surpassing population growth.
To add, I am not entirely surprised that the US is experiencing gun violence of some sort (no idea of the racial breakdown) pretty much every week. I estimate that they're still making and selling weapons at a rate surpassing population growth.
Why was there no racial commentary? Because the left could not concoct a black/white, police/poverty theme. Racial accusations and characterizations are always initiated by the left and the race oligarchs like Al Sharpton. As far as "thugs" vs "gangs" is concerned, if there had been a brawl between the Crips and the Bloods in Sandtown, the coverage would have been exactly the same as it was with the biker gangs in Waco. There was a riot in Baltimore that was egged on by the local government and the left media. There was massive destruction of property and attacks on police. How do you compare a riot to a gang fight?
1
I am a 62 year old white woman who grew up in a very mixed racially, lower income Brooklyn neighborthood. Before we all assume I am another "old white person" whose racism is partially due to my age, I might remind you I was a person who came of age fighting for the rights of all people of all color, gender and sexual orientation in the 60s, as were many "old white people" these days. Everyone these days seems to just blend us into our parents' generation when it comes to auto-conservative attitudes.
That said, I have used the word thug (with good reason) to describe many people of many colors who behaved in a thugish manor. Period. You can't take every word (after word) that right wing media uses or misuses and decide it is a racist insult. You can't keep shifting the rules, then point fingers at people who use the word and call them racist.
ANYBODY overturning or burning cars or looting stores or throwing bricks or rocks is a thug ... whether they are "celebrating" a sports victory or protesting a bad police action. Regardless of color.
The guilty party we should be pointing fingers at is the media. They barely covered the articulate, peaceful, responsible people who protested in the many cities. Not everyday people who you seem to call on to update their vocabulary almost weekly to avoid insulting people who are behaving like criminals.
That said, I have used the word thug (with good reason) to describe many people of many colors who behaved in a thugish manor. Period. You can't take every word (after word) that right wing media uses or misuses and decide it is a racist insult. You can't keep shifting the rules, then point fingers at people who use the word and call them racist.
ANYBODY overturning or burning cars or looting stores or throwing bricks or rocks is a thug ... whether they are "celebrating" a sports victory or protesting a bad police action. Regardless of color.
The guilty party we should be pointing fingers at is the media. They barely covered the articulate, peaceful, responsible people who protested in the many cities. Not everyday people who you seem to call on to update their vocabulary almost weekly to avoid insulting people who are behaving like criminals.
2
Bravo, Mr. Blow! You're always good but today you've really outdone yourself, in this intellectually rewarding, emotionally moving column. I hope a lot of people will read it and learn something from it.
1
This column would have been much more effective if you came at it from an economic opportunity angle rather than a race one. You could have talked about how the bikers squander their economic opportunity on biker gang related stupidity, while poor people who have no economic opportunity are trapped in a cycle of poverty. Instead you make it about race.
A lot of your rhetoric about black persons being persecuted and hated sounds extraordinarily similar to evangelical rhetoric about evangelicals being persecuted and hated. For just about every group in a society there will be haters, and nothing is going to change that. You can try minimize the effect and number of the haters, but they will always be there.
A lot of your rhetoric about black persons being persecuted and hated sounds extraordinarily similar to evangelical rhetoric about evangelicals being persecuted and hated. For just about every group in a society there will be haters, and nothing is going to change that. You can try minimize the effect and number of the haters, but they will always be there.
3
Mountains out of a molehill. Nobody in the media has expressed support for the bikers (you can call them thugs easily enough) in Waco, but there was widespread support for the demonstrators in Ferguson. Every news report I watched implied or directly stated the deeper, long-term issues that Ferguson represents and the news continues even today, whereas the biker riot in Waco will fade from the media shortly, as there are no deep social problems at issue in it--they were just a bunch of drunken thugs erupting into unmotivated violence, violence for its own sake rather than out of frustration at long-term racial oppression.
1
The term "thug" has been used to describe violent, brutal and conscienceless people of all races at one time or another. The term comes from "thuggee" who were a sect of worshippers of Kali in India who ritually murdered travelers by straggling and then dismembering them, but never non-Indian travelers. The British destroyed the sect and turned the former members into rug makers. The term "thug" started out as a prerogative term for brutal criminals in India but soon was applied to anybody considered a brutal criminal. In the current context the term seems to be used to denigrate people who are seen by critics as out of control anti-social people and by sympathizers as victims of a racist society who dared to stand up for themselves.
Blow also sees an undercurrent of pride in the violence perpetrated by the motorcycle gangs in the mass media even as violent protestors of racial oppression in places like Baltimore are marginalized and denigrated by society, which seems to reveal how deep and persistent the racial biases against African American runs in this country.
While there are people who feel sympathy and even some admiration for outlaws and those who strike back at perceived injustices, most people do not think that the violence and the harm done is justified.
Blow also sees an undercurrent of pride in the violence perpetrated by the motorcycle gangs in the mass media even as violent protestors of racial oppression in places like Baltimore are marginalized and denigrated by society, which seems to reveal how deep and persistent the racial biases against African American runs in this country.
While there are people who feel sympathy and even some admiration for outlaws and those who strike back at perceived injustices, most people do not think that the violence and the harm done is justified.
2
When I was growing up in England in the 1950s, the term "thug" was used for bullies, whether at school (that's means grade school and high school) or on the street. It had NO racial connotations at all, and I was surprised to hear recently that so many Americans have never heard the word and now think it refers only to violent African Americans.
3
I think you're right. But so what? Yes, they are thugs and worse. Not all of them ...but some of them. 9 are dead. Almost or near 180 in custody. How this wasn't interrupted given all the warnings is my concern. It's almost comical. Thug is the mildest term I can think of and hardly captures the depravity of a few..not all..of these clubs members.
Perhaps the absence of Sharpton and burning buildings leads one not to think of thugs, fear and hate. My first thoughts were to let the biker thugs fight themselves to oblivion. They just hate each other.
2
Keep writing, Mr. Blow.
This particular column may be riding the edge between legitimate beef and whining but it still retains a legitimate, considered perspective (the black experience in today's America) that is largely absent from the rest of our media. We need to keep hearing your intelligent voice responding to the world from that perspective.
Your columns have not all been about race. That subject has predominated as our culture has experienced a revival of horror at how black people are being systemically mistreated. The respondents here who are unwilling or incapable of seeing the subtle distinctions that you're making are simply wrong. They remind me of the white woman in a bible study class I attended who, when I suggested that racism in Connecticut was evidenced by the empty seat beside most black commuters on the packed commuter trains to New York City, responded with the comment, "Well, you don't know their background, who you might be sitting beside." My response that she knew no more about the white people she chose to sit beside simply offended her.
Keep writing, Mr. Blow. America needs your perspective and your intelligent voice.
This particular column may be riding the edge between legitimate beef and whining but it still retains a legitimate, considered perspective (the black experience in today's America) that is largely absent from the rest of our media. We need to keep hearing your intelligent voice responding to the world from that perspective.
Your columns have not all been about race. That subject has predominated as our culture has experienced a revival of horror at how black people are being systemically mistreated. The respondents here who are unwilling or incapable of seeing the subtle distinctions that you're making are simply wrong. They remind me of the white woman in a bible study class I attended who, when I suggested that racism in Connecticut was evidenced by the empty seat beside most black commuters on the packed commuter trains to New York City, responded with the comment, "Well, you don't know their background, who you might be sitting beside." My response that she knew no more about the white people she chose to sit beside simply offended her.
Keep writing, Mr. Blow. America needs your perspective and your intelligent voice.
Charles - I have to take an opposing view here. First - gangs are groups of thugs. In Waco, the violence was between groups of thugs -gangs. Second - the individuals in Ferguson and Baltimore were protesting against the system and, by all accounts, there were thugs amongst the mostly peaceful protesters. And the protests had legitimate claims that were overshadowed by the behavior of a few which makes that behavior more egregious. The gun battle in Waco had none of these elements - no good guys in the whole bunch. Just a bunch of thugs who had joined gangs.
Oh - and using Easy Rider as your example of romanticizing motorcycle gangs? Charles - maybe 1% of the country's population has ever actually seen the movie and it wasn't that good. Frankly, after watching what these gangs of thugs are capable of in Waco and New York, I'm scared to death of them.
Oh - and using Easy Rider as your example of romanticizing motorcycle gangs? Charles - maybe 1% of the country's population has ever actually seen the movie and it wasn't that good. Frankly, after watching what these gangs of thugs are capable of in Waco and New York, I'm scared to death of them.
3
Thug is a term that I first heard in relation to organized crime in the 20's and 30's. Those were not black criminals, but white organized crime. The 'thug' term has never been associated more with black than with white. It just refers to violence, and the dictionary shows the origin to be a term for a gang in India of all places.
If we are looking for evidence of racism we will find it everywhere we look, even in a simple word. If we are looking for evidence of love, we will find it in the most trivial of human interactions. We find what we are looking for, and the harder we look, the more we find. Mr. Blow if you want to find love demonstrated between black and white Americans, you can find it. I see it everyday, and I want to be part of it. Let's each do a little more of it every day and we will all find more and more and more of it. What do you control? A smile, a kind word, an unselfish act, courtesy, self-control, personal responsibility. Perhaps not media worthy, but life is made of little things.
If we are looking for evidence of racism we will find it everywhere we look, even in a simple word. If we are looking for evidence of love, we will find it in the most trivial of human interactions. We find what we are looking for, and the harder we look, the more we find. Mr. Blow if you want to find love demonstrated between black and white Americans, you can find it. I see it everyday, and I want to be part of it. Let's each do a little more of it every day and we will all find more and more and more of it. What do you control? A smile, a kind word, an unselfish act, courtesy, self-control, personal responsibility. Perhaps not media worthy, but life is made of little things.
2
For me, the most frightening aspect of the Baltimore demonstration against police brutality was the moment when the Mayor of Baltimore, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, stood before the microphones and focused on ""thugs" in the demonstration without mentioning what the demonstration was about.
1
I agree with several points made and also disagree with a few. I do find it interesting also, however, that the NYT perpetuates stereotypes. For example - the picture associated with the story "Giving the Poor Easy Access to Healthy Food Doesn’t Mean They’ll Buy It" is of a young black boy. It could easily have been a picture of a young white girl as there are surely more poor whites (in total numbers) in America than blacks, but instead you choose to show African Americans when discussing "the poor." Then the picture associated with the story about the increased rates of black children and suicide is of a white man (no doubt a researcher). Anyway, I just think it would do this paper, and all media, well to think about the imagery sent with its headlines/stories.
2
A major diferance between this and Baltimore is Texas had nothing to do with race. You had two, mostly white, groups attacking each other for reasons other than race.
2
Some notable things about Waco: no tanks, no show of force as an occupying army, no perps lying face down in the street, no camo. Instead we saw the bikers sitting on the curb, chit chatting with the cops, using their smart phones.
Protesters have always gone a little overboard (with that pun the original tea party comes to mind) and property does get damaged. (I'm sure the owners of the tea were unimpressed with the message as their tea bobbed in the harbor.)
The melee in Waco was not about the rights of people to gather, but about some small minded criminals (thugs) who keep score with their rivals by the body counts.
When I was a teen the biker image was one of a loser, a criminal; albeit a romantic one. Having met a few I know not to trust them very far. Now the biker is an American icon, thanks probably to the misguided definition of freedom we seem to have adopted lately.
Mr. Blows column today hints at the anger that is just below the surface of all of our black brothers and sisters. They know, even that the best intentioned white person, has a little bias against them for only one reason; the color of their skin. Those commentators here who take him to task for his persistence with this theme need to look a little harder into their own dark souls.
Protesters have always gone a little overboard (with that pun the original tea party comes to mind) and property does get damaged. (I'm sure the owners of the tea were unimpressed with the message as their tea bobbed in the harbor.)
The melee in Waco was not about the rights of people to gather, but about some small minded criminals (thugs) who keep score with their rivals by the body counts.
When I was a teen the biker image was one of a loser, a criminal; albeit a romantic one. Having met a few I know not to trust them very far. Now the biker is an American icon, thanks probably to the misguided definition of freedom we seem to have adopted lately.
Mr. Blows column today hints at the anger that is just below the surface of all of our black brothers and sisters. They know, even that the best intentioned white person, has a little bias against them for only one reason; the color of their skin. Those commentators here who take him to task for his persistence with this theme need to look a little harder into their own dark souls.
Why would they need tanks when the bikers were sitting on the pavement? Also, 4 bikers were killed by police. Aren't you concerned about police brutality? How do we know the bikers didn't have their hands up?
I agree with the point about self-love. Let it start with the elimination of the n-word. No word so perfectly captures the hatred that whites held for blacks for centuries. That most white people (even if they have remaining bias towards black people) will no longer say it shows how bad the word really is. And yet black people use the word as if it is cool. To me it is the same as if Jews started making holocaust jokes. Some things are just not cool, not funny and the n-word is one. That it is used by blacks to describe themselves or other black people demonstrates a self-loathing that desperately needs to be reversed.
1
The simple unreported fact seems to be that the police massacred these "white" bikers and have largely illegally imprisoned them en masse. Imagine the (inter)national uproar if they had been "black"? Mr. Blow needs to focus on actual reporting and less on semantic wordplay.
1
I think most of us, when presented with the word "gang", would assume the price of membership is to be a "thug".
From my computer's Thesaurus:
gangster: noun
Prohibition was a boon era for gangsters: hoodlum, gang member, racketeer, robber, ruffian, thug, tough, villain, lawbreaker, criminal; gunman; Mafioso; informal mobster, crook, lowlife, hitman, hood, hardman; dated desperado.
thug: noun
one of Capone's thugs: ruffian, hooligan, vandal, hoodlum, gangster, villain, criminal; informal tough, bruiser, hardman, goon, heavy, enforcer, hired gun, hood.
Notice that both use Bonnie & Clyde era examples to illustrate the words? Thugs was often used to describe them at the time. The terms are interchangeable.
From my computer's Thesaurus:
gangster: noun
Prohibition was a boon era for gangsters: hoodlum, gang member, racketeer, robber, ruffian, thug, tough, villain, lawbreaker, criminal; gunman; Mafioso; informal mobster, crook, lowlife, hitman, hood, hardman; dated desperado.
thug: noun
one of Capone's thugs: ruffian, hooligan, vandal, hoodlum, gangster, villain, criminal; informal tough, bruiser, hardman, goon, heavy, enforcer, hired gun, hood.
Notice that both use Bonnie & Clyde era examples to illustrate the words? Thugs was often used to describe them at the time. The terms are interchangeable.
3
Brilliant article! Thank your for this very important lesson about reclaiming ones humanity and racial dignity while still suffering the almost daily denigration from a society whose very language is differentiated by prejudice. You offered a profound insight about the transformational power of love- that loving hard the very flesh that others despise both unchains the individual from society's false judgements and re-establishes the individual's human dignity as, firstly, a child of God and then also as an equal amoung equals.
Why are we comparing the two: riots that broke out during the protests against police violence and this biker club blood feud?
The former had happened frequently these past few years, involving mostly younger people, damaging OTHERS' properties, where the supposed good guys, the police, were the target of complaint, and therefore there was a general mood of civil disobedience even if there was not outright resistance of arrest.
The latter happened just this once, involving almost all older people, injury and deaths among their own members, where the supposed good guys, the police, were good guys; and despite the violence and death, there were no resistance of arrest. After the investigation complete, we might find that the deaths were mostly caused by police shooting.
Moreover, the identifier for the former is "black" as presicribed by the media and the proetesters themselves; and for the latter, it's "biker" and "gang," not "white."
There is perhaps an important lesson here. As much as it is true that there is more police violence against the black community due to racism, police violence itself is not necessarily racially "generated." There is an aspect of poice violence that permeates through the whole police culture that has nothing to do with race; likewise, neither are crimes unique to any one racial groups and labelling them with one may distort the WHOLE of the problem and prevent us from finding its solutions.
The former had happened frequently these past few years, involving mostly younger people, damaging OTHERS' properties, where the supposed good guys, the police, were the target of complaint, and therefore there was a general mood of civil disobedience even if there was not outright resistance of arrest.
The latter happened just this once, involving almost all older people, injury and deaths among their own members, where the supposed good guys, the police, were good guys; and despite the violence and death, there were no resistance of arrest. After the investigation complete, we might find that the deaths were mostly caused by police shooting.
Moreover, the identifier for the former is "black" as presicribed by the media and the proetesters themselves; and for the latter, it's "biker" and "gang," not "white."
There is perhaps an important lesson here. As much as it is true that there is more police violence against the black community due to racism, police violence itself is not necessarily racially "generated." There is an aspect of poice violence that permeates through the whole police culture that has nothing to do with race; likewise, neither are crimes unique to any one racial groups and labelling them with one may distort the WHOLE of the problem and prevent us from finding its solutions.
1
This article is racist.
The difference between the biker incident was that the bikers were attacking each other. The black rioters were targeting *INNOCENT* whites and Asians. So, you are missing two crucial points in drawing parallels between the rioting thugs and the bikers.
A better example would have been the bikers who assaulted the Asian family in their SUV. Including a 2 year old infant. Although, I have to admit, I don't really have the inclination to research the race of the bikers in that incident.
I am more upset about the racial violence in Baltimore because it could have been me innocently walking down the street or driving down a road with my family trying to get where I was going. What would I do in that instance? Hard to say. I have to identify with the Asian father. Although he did have "words" with the bikers prior to the incident. I am not going to put the lives of my family in danger in the name political correctness.
We need to love everyone, who does good deeds, regardless of their skin color. The racially motivated rioters who attacked innocent people are not deserving of our love, based purely on their actions and not their skin color.
The difference between the biker incident was that the bikers were attacking each other. The black rioters were targeting *INNOCENT* whites and Asians. So, you are missing two crucial points in drawing parallels between the rioting thugs and the bikers.
A better example would have been the bikers who assaulted the Asian family in their SUV. Including a 2 year old infant. Although, I have to admit, I don't really have the inclination to research the race of the bikers in that incident.
I am more upset about the racial violence in Baltimore because it could have been me innocently walking down the street or driving down a road with my family trying to get where I was going. What would I do in that instance? Hard to say. I have to identify with the Asian father. Although he did have "words" with the bikers prior to the incident. I am not going to put the lives of my family in danger in the name political correctness.
We need to love everyone, who does good deeds, regardless of their skin color. The racially motivated rioters who attacked innocent people are not deserving of our love, based purely on their actions and not their skin color.
2
Democrats win elections by separating and antagonizing voters based on race. As our president told hispanics, "punish your enemies."
The left needs racism, or at least the illusion of racism, to survive.
This explains why we now have a debate over who is more aggrieved: black men or hispanic bikers. Meanwhile, those with true racial animus towards minorities will continue to cheer on today's sorry version of a civil rights movement. They are doing so much more harm to race relations than good.
The left needs racism, or at least the illusion of racism, to survive.
This explains why we now have a debate over who is more aggrieved: black men or hispanic bikers. Meanwhile, those with true racial animus towards minorities will continue to cheer on today's sorry version of a civil rights movement. They are doing so much more harm to race relations than good.
1
Five white guys in black leather in Texas armed to the teeth are open-carry, second amendment loving freedom riders. Five armed black guys dressed in black anywhere in the south are probably dead.
When are we going to start asking how many of the ppl in the #Waco slaughter grew up in single-parent homes? Oh, that's right...— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 17, 2015
When will the curfew be established in #Waco? Oh, that’s right…
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 17, 2015
When will the national guard be activated in #Waco? Oh, that’s right…
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 17, 2015
So, you want me to believe that you have these high standards, that you have this great inside look into our American culture, that you are presenting a slice of truth, rather than a biased point of view? It seems to me that the true nature of you is reflected not by your well rehearsed, proof-read by others, speeches; but by your every day views you show on your twitter account.
Let me ask you this; when is Al Sharpton going to take time to call out for defense for those arrested who had nothing to do with the shooting? When is the President of our nation, the bikers included, going to ask for a full investigation of the actions of the police force and demand justice for those wrongly taken into custody?...oh, that's right.
When will the curfew be established in #Waco? Oh, that’s right…
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 17, 2015
When will the national guard be activated in #Waco? Oh, that’s right…
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 17, 2015
So, you want me to believe that you have these high standards, that you have this great inside look into our American culture, that you are presenting a slice of truth, rather than a biased point of view? It seems to me that the true nature of you is reflected not by your well rehearsed, proof-read by others, speeches; but by your every day views you show on your twitter account.
Let me ask you this; when is Al Sharpton going to take time to call out for defense for those arrested who had nothing to do with the shooting? When is the President of our nation, the bikers included, going to ask for a full investigation of the actions of the police force and demand justice for those wrongly taken into custody?...oh, that's right.
4
The "something" about black violence that makes some people leap to a conclusions is statistics that show blacks commit more murders than whites even though black make up only 13 percent of the population. It doesn't help that FBI data shows blacks are quicker than whites on the interracial trigger finger. The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6) shows that 409 blacks murdered whites while 189 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks in 2013. Poverty is often used to excuse criminality among African Americans, but while African Americans are disproportionately poor, there are nearly three times as many poor whites than poor blacks. The most recent Census Bureau poverty report shows that in 2013 there were 29.9 million white Americans living below poverty level and 11 million black Americans living below poverty level. (Source: Table 3: People in Poverty by Selected Characteristics: 2012 and 2013, Income and Poverty in the United States: 2013.) Blacks make up about 27 percent of Americans living below poverty levels, but commit far more than 27 percent of crimes in virtually every category. However, Mr. Blow's assertion that whiles attach the "thug" label to the "whole of a people" is hyperbole. We don't think our black friends, acquaintances and coworkers are thugs. We think "thug culture" has attracted a disproportionate number of young African Americans who seem to have a disproportionate impact on black culture.
4
How did you ever determine the difference between "bikers" and "thugs". Did I not read somewhere quite recently about "thugs" in Baltimore? Oh, well. I am very old and forgetful and unforgiving to boot......
Look at the mayhem caused by biker thugs - 9 dead, 18 wounded.. and after all that we see no tanks, no tear gas, no curfew and very few policemen, at ;east from this view...it doesn't look like the response to protests in Ferguson, nor Baltimore..
Are armed white biker gangs really less of a threat than citizens of all colors protesting against police brutality?
Well? Don't expect to see the following:
1. Comments about white-on-white crime and the need for whites to deal with it
2. Comments on how the "white community" needs to get their act together
3. Comments about the need for more fathers in the home for whites
4. Photos of the dead bodies. (Whenever someone black is killed by police, we see photos and videos, literally, ad nauseum.)
The reason you won't see any of these things is because whites are viewed as individuals. The shootout with the bikers only applies to a segment of white society. All whites aren't blamed for the actions of a few.
Yet when someone black is killed by police, it becomes a referendum on ALL black people. You know the old saying: I'm an individual, but "they" are a stereotype.
Remember this, if you're ever tempted to blame all black people for the actions of a few.
Are armed white biker gangs really less of a threat than citizens of all colors protesting against police brutality?
Well? Don't expect to see the following:
1. Comments about white-on-white crime and the need for whites to deal with it
2. Comments on how the "white community" needs to get their act together
3. Comments about the need for more fathers in the home for whites
4. Photos of the dead bodies. (Whenever someone black is killed by police, we see photos and videos, literally, ad nauseum.)
The reason you won't see any of these things is because whites are viewed as individuals. The shootout with the bikers only applies to a segment of white society. All whites aren't blamed for the actions of a few.
Yet when someone black is killed by police, it becomes a referendum on ALL black people. You know the old saying: I'm an individual, but "they" are a stereotype.
Remember this, if you're ever tempted to blame all black people for the actions of a few.
"We can demand that the data around racial bias, which stretches across society, be accepted as fact rather than opinion."
How about demanding that the data around the soaring rate of black crime, which stretches across society, be accepted as fact instead of ignored because it doesn't fit Blow's narrative?
How about demanding that the data around the soaring rate of black crime, which stretches across society, be accepted as fact instead of ignored because it doesn't fit Blow's narrative?
1
A very real question as to why we still have such distinct colors in our country. We've been free to interracially date and marry for a very long time. As a child, I remember distinctions between Irish, Italians, Polish, etc. I no longer see those distinctions.
When will we ever see significant interracial dating and marriage between places and others?
We'll probably never get to a point where we're all a light brown, but the process of blending can make us more understanding and tolerant of one another.
When will we ever see significant interracial dating and marriage between places and others?
We'll probably never get to a point where we're all a light brown, but the process of blending can make us more understanding and tolerant of one another.
Violence IS about our fraying culture and it IS about the "entirety of the environment." Indeed "Black violence stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people." -- The violence being carried out against black and brown bodies is a matter of the miner's canary alerting us to the toxins in our environment. The cry falls on deaf ears to our own peril. This is why the violent militaristic acts of "bikers" can receive such passive coverage, the terminology is the stuff of nostalgia and US individualism as you note. We -- our society -- are in grave danger.
I typically support your columns. But, in this, you are stretching the point. The bikers are thugs of the worst kind and of all outlets, Fox has repeatedly identified them as such. Your main point that racism exists in America resonates with most. You don't need to exaggerate every incident to make it stronger.
2
The comments here from the white right can form the basis of a class on white privilege, racism, internet trolling, hate. You name it. It's here.
I read a few days ago that a spokesman of one of the so-called family-oriented associations argued that the bikers are merely misguided, that law enforcement agencies should embrace these community-minded people for the support and security needed in their (presumably solid white) communities. That's like appointing Tony Soprano to head the neighborhood watch.
And where is the outrage from law enforcement that allows these (mostly) white thugs to acquire and use an arsenal of weapons? Instead we hear most dispassionate, low-key recitations of the history and nature of outlaw motorcycle gangs, as if they are just other community-cased organizations rather than violent, organized criminal enterprises. Why the restraint? Because they can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of better gun control overriding their own support of the NRA and its deranged policies.
I read a few days ago that a spokesman of one of the so-called family-oriented associations argued that the bikers are merely misguided, that law enforcement agencies should embrace these community-minded people for the support and security needed in their (presumably solid white) communities. That's like appointing Tony Soprano to head the neighborhood watch.
And where is the outrage from law enforcement that allows these (mostly) white thugs to acquire and use an arsenal of weapons? Instead we hear most dispassionate, low-key recitations of the history and nature of outlaw motorcycle gangs, as if they are just other community-cased organizations rather than violent, organized criminal enterprises. Why the restraint? Because they can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of better gun control overriding their own support of the NRA and its deranged policies.
White privilege is an invention of the race industry to fill the void. There is no racism in the U.S., at least no racism on the right. We don't spend time demonizing people based on their race. We don't really talk about race, because we are not racist. Only a racist obsesses about race.
Furthermore, call it what you want. That's your business. You call it trolling, racism, etc. because you fear truth and facts. The truth and the facts are relentless, and tactics from the school of Saul Alinksy have grown tiresome and laughable.
Furthermore, call it what you want. That's your business. You call it trolling, racism, etc. because you fear truth and facts. The truth and the facts are relentless, and tactics from the school of Saul Alinksy have grown tiresome and laughable.
It is unfortunate that another word is becoming invested with racial overtones. As the events in Baltimore unfolded, "thug" (at least we may still write out the word) was revealed to be a racially charged word.
Perhaps I should have observed this prior to the description (by media & politicians) of the rioters in Baltimore who distinguished themselves in the worst way from most protesters. But until this spring, if asked to use "thugs" in a commonly used sentence, I would have cited "thugs and hooligans rioting at a soccer match in England" conjuring an image of skinheads.
Changes in the usage and meaning of words don't happen overnight. But the absence of the term "thugs" to describe the criminals in Waco lends credence to the theory that the word is evolving toward a racially tinged pejorative, perhaps with connotations extending beyond the individual.
My sense (perhaps mistaken) is that the word has more often appeared in its plural form; usually not describing a lone bully or criminal. So the extension of meaning to a group comes rather easily.
To state the obvious, "bikers" is the most obvious word choice to describe the group in Waco. But the absence of the word "thugs" is worthy of note and begs the question if it would have been in play for bikers with dark skin.
Etymologists will someday be able to trace the evolution of usage of this word. At the moment we seem to be enmeshed in that evolution, grappling with connotations intended and unintended.
Perhaps I should have observed this prior to the description (by media & politicians) of the rioters in Baltimore who distinguished themselves in the worst way from most protesters. But until this spring, if asked to use "thugs" in a commonly used sentence, I would have cited "thugs and hooligans rioting at a soccer match in England" conjuring an image of skinheads.
Changes in the usage and meaning of words don't happen overnight. But the absence of the term "thugs" to describe the criminals in Waco lends credence to the theory that the word is evolving toward a racially tinged pejorative, perhaps with connotations extending beyond the individual.
My sense (perhaps mistaken) is that the word has more often appeared in its plural form; usually not describing a lone bully or criminal. So the extension of meaning to a group comes rather easily.
To state the obvious, "bikers" is the most obvious word choice to describe the group in Waco. But the absence of the word "thugs" is worthy of note and begs the question if it would have been in play for bikers with dark skin.
Etymologists will someday be able to trace the evolution of usage of this word. At the moment we seem to be enmeshed in that evolution, grappling with connotations intended and unintended.
27
I have a son in law who rides with his dad and a group of middle aged men on touring bikes. He is a biker by the fact that he rides a motorcycle, but the guys in Texas were and are thugs. It's a perfect word to describe the men in Waco. Their goal is not to enjoy a rare sunny day in the Northwest with a group of friends; it's to commit crimes and intimidate people who don't bow down and cringe in front of them.
No "someday" about it: "thug" comes from the Hindu "thugee," a member of a group dedicated to assassination.
Well considering thug or thuggie refers to Indian marauders one could argue it does already have a racial tinge to it.
Charles, these guys were thugs.
4
Until Mr. Blow and others raised a stink about the use of the word "thugs" to describe the looters in Baltimore, I had never associated the word with African Americans in any way. To me the word referred to brutal, violent men, conjuring up images of Mafia enforcers and British football hooligans. Those to whom the word was applied in Baltimore probably included some genuine thugs, but they mostly seemed to be opportunistic petty criminals on an adrenalin rush.
147
Whoops, sorry Mr. Blow, an inconvenient truth.
The old adage, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me," is so untrue. Words are an extension of ourselves and often reveal implicit bias; hidden even from one's own self perception. Hopefully, this piece by Charles is the start of important dialogue in the Times and elsewhere.
1
Mr. Blow, what you are engaging in is known as confirmation bias.
5
The NYT conversation on race has devolved into an endless loop of broad, sweeping emotional accusations and a troubling absence of balanced analytical discussion.
That is a wasted opportunity for all of us.
That is a wasted opportunity for all of us.
10
Yeah all the photos so far have shown the biker gangs to be chunky white males. There will always be an excuse on how they came to become biker gangs, how they each had traumatic childhood or alcoholic father or junkie mom and how they deserve our collective pity and forgiveness, because they are white and still the majority in this country. Its folks like these the Republican votes are after, so also Hillary's people who want a slice of this white male macho crowd.
2
Amazing.The biker violence had nothing to do with race--especially black. That's not the story, Mr.Black. Give it a rest. The story is middle-aged and older men and some women behaving like violent teenagers. I'll bet they have a tree house.
5
Now don't wall yourself in. Did you see the comments asking about absent parents, bad home culture (sarcastic observers rose to the ocassion) and the pile on about Texas gun culture? People are getting it. Don't let up the heat, but don't circle the wagons either.
1
I very much sympathize with the spirit of this article but am having trouble agreeing that these bikers are somehow getting a free pass in the court of public opinion because they are white, as this column suggests, or white non-Muslims as the Wajahat Ali column suggests. I have no interest in these gangs, or sympathy or use for them, and I would think the average American feels the same way. I haven’t paid as close attention to rhetoric in coverage of this story as Charles Blow has, but “thug” was one of the first words that came to my mind when I heard about it.
7
Decent Americans, which should include the editorial boards of major newspapers, should be outraged by this newest effort to cultivate class and racial grievance in anticipation of the 2016 elections. Mr. Blow, a man who makes his living finding racial grievance in every human act, is now offended that the police are not prepared to arrest everyone on a motorcycle and did not shoot enough bikers at the conflagration in Waco. For Blow and his ilk, the fact that no white or hispanic bikers were shot by police is definitive proof that the police are racist. What, other than race, could explain why the police did not open fire on everyone at that restaurant parking lot? And Mr. Blow is not alone. The progressive airwaves are rife with this narrative.
Let's admit the truth. The progressive electoral formula now requires a disproportionate turnout among black voters. Between now and election day, it's up to Blow and other racialists to stoke the flames. As a black man, I am insulted that Mr. Blow believes he can sway us with this nonsense. I am also disappointed that the NYT gives him daily space for such intellectually deficient commentary.
Let's admit the truth. The progressive electoral formula now requires a disproportionate turnout among black voters. Between now and election day, it's up to Blow and other racialists to stoke the flames. As a black man, I am insulted that Mr. Blow believes he can sway us with this nonsense. I am also disappointed that the NYT gives him daily space for such intellectually deficient commentary.
6
It is too bad that Mr.(?) Clayboy didn't read or, perhaps, understand what Mr. Blow writes about today. Alas, just more evidence of the veracity of Mr. Blow's point.
Thank you, Charles Blow. I completely agree with you. The way we talk about violence is skewed. I remember that in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, the original notion of who committed that horrible act was a "dark skinned" person. The news reported it that way.
And, you're right. No one asks what deficiencies and losses these biker, macho men motorcyclists had in their childhoods that would prompt them to hoard weapons and kill.
I am reminded of the Jimmy Cliff lyrics, "Who feels it knows it". We all need loving kindness, not hatred. It is important, more important than anything else. And, I appreciate your willingness to consider and write about race and bias.
And, you're right. No one asks what deficiencies and losses these biker, macho men motorcyclists had in their childhoods that would prompt them to hoard weapons and kill.
I am reminded of the Jimmy Cliff lyrics, "Who feels it knows it". We all need loving kindness, not hatred. It is important, more important than anything else. And, I appreciate your willingness to consider and write about race and bias.
2
Bravo, Mr. Blow!
1
I'm confused. Can someone tell me the difference between a thug with a leather jacket and a thug who wears his pants below his hips? Other than their appearance of course.
One more thing... did any media outlet describe any biker as a "gentle giant"?
One more thing... did any media outlet describe any biker as a "gentle giant"?
10
I am waiting for the NRA to tell me that the bikers were "good guys with guns."
3
Nine people are dead in what originated over a disputed parking spot. I wonder, if this had taken place inside a major city, and the dispute involved African American teens, would conservatives have remained silent? Or would they have jumped in to condemn the failings of black society and the failure of liberal social policies? But when we are talking about middle aged white men, well, somehow the debate over race and the failings of society are absent.
3
My own interests run more toward economics and foreign policy, especially the resort to organized violence of wars and near wars.
However, racism and racial relations in the US is fundamental, and deeply problematic, and getting worse. It is fundamental to our economics, and fundamental to too many wars. In every way that matters, it is a problem, and the problem is getting worse in each iteration.
Mr. Blow is correct to see it in so many places, and to call it out for its role in so much else.
It is to be seen in poverty law, in minimum wage law, in maldistribution of wealth and income, in lack of jobs, in the people left out of our economy and even health, and in the wedge issue politics that exploit those things instead of solving them.
It is to be seen in which nations we care about, and who we will drone freely without thought for collateral deaths. It defines our relations with a vast number of countries, and our choices of war and peace involving them, and the economics of our interaction with them.
But most of all, it poisons daily life in this country. We live in it, and its a sewer.
So I respectfully disagree with those comments here that see other things as deserving of the attention that Mr. Blow gives to racism. We need him, and those complaints only prove we need him.
However, racism and racial relations in the US is fundamental, and deeply problematic, and getting worse. It is fundamental to our economics, and fundamental to too many wars. In every way that matters, it is a problem, and the problem is getting worse in each iteration.
Mr. Blow is correct to see it in so many places, and to call it out for its role in so much else.
It is to be seen in poverty law, in minimum wage law, in maldistribution of wealth and income, in lack of jobs, in the people left out of our economy and even health, and in the wedge issue politics that exploit those things instead of solving them.
It is to be seen in which nations we care about, and who we will drone freely without thought for collateral deaths. It defines our relations with a vast number of countries, and our choices of war and peace involving them, and the economics of our interaction with them.
But most of all, it poisons daily life in this country. We live in it, and its a sewer.
So I respectfully disagree with those comments here that see other things as deserving of the attention that Mr. Blow gives to racism. We need him, and those complaints only prove we need him.
15
I didn't realize until Ferguson that "thugs" was such a pejorative, aimed primarily at blacks. Now that the word has taken on this larger meaning, I can't even honestly remember how I would have thought about the word. I wasn't a word I'd use. But I'd probably use it in relation to lower class bad white guys, actually. I never associated that word with blacks. Actually, I wouldn't associate it with real violence, such as the biker gang shooting or the Ferguson looting - but what do I know? I do not live in a violent personal world; I know about violence from the media. Yes, I'm fortunate.
One thing I'd like to see more of in the Times: some focus on lower class troubled white communities in our country.
One thing I'd like to see more of in the Times: some focus on lower class troubled white communities in our country.
104
DLP, I agree. My definition of the word thug is bad guys. They can be black or white. Maybe because I am white, I think of them, like you, as being white guys. There is plenty of badness to go around in both races.
Charles, There are far more decent Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Orientals, and all others, than there are thugs, bikers, gangsters, you pick and choose. Everyone of these groups are living in an age of barbarism and the United States has authorized water boarding and other methods of torture. We are all far being in a position to criticize.
We are all in this together. It's time to move along. It will be torture enough to put up with presidential hopefuls for the next sixteen months.
We are all in this together. It's time to move along. It will be torture enough to put up with presidential hopefuls for the next sixteen months.
2
I agree with Dr. King's phrase, and here I paraphrase, injustice is that which acts against love. But while we are developing our social capacity for compassion and empathy I will settle for better work by the media in the way that they continue to racially code events.
As you pointed out, the "thug" label and assumption about "cultural deficiency" is just the tip of the iceberg. Here's another example. Now that heroin has become the drug of choice in white suburbs and even rural areas its use is a public health problem. When it was ravaging black and Latino neighborhoods the social pathology label was all we got, along with a "war" to eliminate it.
I'm all for the shift to a treatment rather than criminal justice model for drug addiction, but it shows you who we really are as a nation when it took a white face for the powers that be to see humanity in the eyes of those afflicted.
As you pointed out, the "thug" label and assumption about "cultural deficiency" is just the tip of the iceberg. Here's another example. Now that heroin has become the drug of choice in white suburbs and even rural areas its use is a public health problem. When it was ravaging black and Latino neighborhoods the social pathology label was all we got, along with a "war" to eliminate it.
I'm all for the shift to a treatment rather than criminal justice model for drug addiction, but it shows you who we really are as a nation when it took a white face for the powers that be to see humanity in the eyes of those afflicted.
71
There is some truth to what Blow is saying, but there is one key fact that can't be overlooked: the violence in Waco was committed by organized groups with clear gang/club affiliations. The participants in the Baltimore violence did not belong to a specific organized group--they were a mass of individuals held together nebulously by a common cause (at that moment).
As a group, it's appropriate to call the Waco groups gangs. Individually, I'd surely label many of them thugs. But to call them all "thugs" is a dangerous label because it doesn't make clear that these biker groups are criminal gangs, with the collective resources to commit organized crime far beyond their means as individual thugs.
We can go down the road of using the same word to describe any type of criminal, but if a bunch of people are committing mayhem as a part of an organization, that fact is salient and worth reporting.
As a group, it's appropriate to call the Waco groups gangs. Individually, I'd surely label many of them thugs. But to call them all "thugs" is a dangerous label because it doesn't make clear that these biker groups are criminal gangs, with the collective resources to commit organized crime far beyond their means as individual thugs.
We can go down the road of using the same word to describe any type of criminal, but if a bunch of people are committing mayhem as a part of an organization, that fact is salient and worth reporting.
5
Quite right. In addition, these gangs did not roam neighborhoods burning and destroying businesses and homes. This event was properly described.
Nit-picking labels and how they are applied keeps picking at a scab and not allowing the wound to heal.
Nit-picking labels and how they are applied keeps picking at a scab and not allowing the wound to heal.
Yes, indeed, Mr. Blow. Call hatred by its name, but don't expect the world to listen. This is not about the beauty and light of black, but about the darkness of white -- and it is buried deep. Whites will deny it until the cows come home.
In the meantime, though, celebrate and treasure your bodies, your blackness, and your culture. You have well earned your place in the American story and I, for one, honor it. Thank you.
In the meantime, though, celebrate and treasure your bodies, your blackness, and your culture. You have well earned your place in the American story and I, for one, honor it. Thank you.
8
Does a place in the American story need to be "earned?"
Some readers have misinterpreted Mr. Blow's trenchant observations on the level of fear and even hatred, conscious or unconscious, that continues to oppress African Americans. Its pervasive nature tears at the very heart of our social contract with each other and diminishes our humanity. How we heal this chasm will ultimately measure the mettle of our society.
9
" This love, in a way, starts with black people themselves, and always has."
I am in a mixed race relationship and there is no doubt that racism exists, and in many ways, flourishes. When Booker T. Washington said "Put down your bucket where you are" in my opinion, he meant take responsibility for your own actions, accept the situation as it presently exists, and build from it. I can't change others, but I can change myself and my condition. It is true that bias exists, especially in the media and in corporate America. Nevertheless, whining about the situation and blaming others is a meaningless waste of time.
I am in a mixed race relationship and there is no doubt that racism exists, and in many ways, flourishes. When Booker T. Washington said "Put down your bucket where you are" in my opinion, he meant take responsibility for your own actions, accept the situation as it presently exists, and build from it. I can't change others, but I can change myself and my condition. It is true that bias exists, especially in the media and in corporate America. Nevertheless, whining about the situation and blaming others is a meaningless waste of time.
7
Among the differences between the rage in Baltimore caused by the death of Freddie Gray and the war in Waco between bikers of different "clubs" is that one resulted in the destruction of property the other in the destruction of lives.
In addition the participants in one were mostly enraged young people with no criminal records. The bikers, according to authorities, belong to an organized criminal enterprise.
Still the ones in Baltimore are called thugs by the President on down and the others are bikers.
In addition the participants in one were mostly enraged young people with no criminal records. The bikers, according to authorities, belong to an organized criminal enterprise.
Still the ones in Baltimore are called thugs by the President on down and the others are bikers.
7
Good lord. The Viagra commercial shows a guy on a motorcycle. Not all motorcyclists are outlaw gangsters, Mr. Blow. I guess even New York Times columnists have their prejudices.
13
Mr Blow, is it OK with you if we call this guy a thug?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/police-investigating-package-f...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/police-investigating-package-f...
1
I don't see where Mr. Blow said "all motorcyclists are outlaw gangsters". In fact this is never assumed, unlike when all black people are blamed for the crimes of the few.
1
Old, white, and "wannabe," I would guess.
1
Oh please. Google "lyrics thug life" and see who is glorifying this term. It's a term black men choose and self-identify with. So tell Tupac and Ja to write about the "outlaw" life so they can be part of a romantic tradition.
15
I have previously commented that I object to the term "thug" in general, mainly because I think that it is being used, be certain tv personalities particularly, as a substitute for other slurs. This article is about groups of people engaging in criminal activities, but the term has also been applied to individuals shot down or killed in the streets, such as Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, 12 year old Tamir Rice, and most recently Freddie Gray. It us being used to dehumanize people who are walking down the street, minding their own business. Not acceptable. This incident in Waco calls out how ridiculous the use of the word is.
47
"It us being used to dehumanize people who are walking down the street, minding their own business."
Ummm... maybe you meant walking down the middle of the street after shoving around a store clerk while robbing a liquor store?
Ummm... maybe you meant walking down the middle of the street after shoving around a store clerk while robbing a liquor store?
1
Once again Mr. Blow is grasping at straws but I supposed a publishing deadline will do that to you. I am not sure what dimension you stepped out of but in this one thug has nothing to do with your race. Though I have reservations about many of the comments made by President Obama I would never have attributed his use of the word "thug" to his underlying racist attitude. Sometimes the absurdity of your articles makes me chuckle.
10
Take heart CC; there are people who have recovered from both of your debilitating conditions. You can, too.
When you do, you will be able to see that Mr Blow is speaking the Good News here: we are all God's children, all equally deserve unrestrained love. You remember, it's in the Baltimore Catechism.
From the tone of many of the comments here Mr. Blow touched a nerve.
Read the column again, and this time don't laugh at it. It's your soul on the line, and America's.
When you do, you will be able to see that Mr Blow is speaking the Good News here: we are all God's children, all equally deserve unrestrained love. You remember, it's in the Baltimore Catechism.
From the tone of many of the comments here Mr. Blow touched a nerve.
Read the column again, and this time don't laugh at it. It's your soul on the line, and America's.
Sometimes the absurdity of statements like yours make me chuckle. Why are black criminals called "thugs" and white criminals are not? Why are white riots not a cultural problem but black riots are? People like Barack Obama, Condi Rice, and Clarence Thomas are not part of the oppressed black community and use similar language as that of their elitist economically conservative peers.
Blow's column is a mishmash of stretching credulity and weepy sentimentality. A poorly written and thinly veiled justification for his own hyper-sensitivity on all matters about race.
Perhaps its time Blow took a vacation to get some introspection in to his own warped view of life in America.
Perhaps its time Blow took a vacation to get some introspection in to his own warped view of life in America.
11
Is it necessary to think in free associative gibberish to be a NY Times editorialist? Because the human devastation universally wrought in our inner cities bears no resemblance to an outlying gang cult like the bikers.
14
Charles' column today is splitting hairs at the sub-atomic level and ignoring some very bitter truths.
First, I think what we are talking about is not white culture or black culture, but Gang Culture which encompasses all racial and ethnic groups. It is no secret that there are white gangs - white supremacists, some biker gangs, etc.. And it is equally known that Crips, Bloods pervade inner cities, as do Latin Kings and others. From outside of inner cities looking in, it seems that gang culture is revered, or at least accepted as a mainstay of inner city life. Music and pop culture -- violent lyrics, baggy pants, no shoe laces allude to different aspects of this culture. Perhaps this is a survival mechanism. Gangs don't get anywhere near that big a big hug in white America. Plus there's the violence. Yes the biker gangs erupted in mahem but overall black/white FBI violent crime stats tell the real story.
I doubt there are more than a few pale-skinned folks reading this who harbor any romantic sentiment toward biker outlaws. But, it seems the primary cultural outputs in rap and hip-hop do glorify violence and gang culture, which seems to turn into reality - witness the recent murder of the rapper in Queens.
While I abhor the treatment of the black community by police, let's not pretend that if cop-on-black-male violence goes away that the community's problems will be solved. There's much work to do - by the community members, too.
First, I think what we are talking about is not white culture or black culture, but Gang Culture which encompasses all racial and ethnic groups. It is no secret that there are white gangs - white supremacists, some biker gangs, etc.. And it is equally known that Crips, Bloods pervade inner cities, as do Latin Kings and others. From outside of inner cities looking in, it seems that gang culture is revered, or at least accepted as a mainstay of inner city life. Music and pop culture -- violent lyrics, baggy pants, no shoe laces allude to different aspects of this culture. Perhaps this is a survival mechanism. Gangs don't get anywhere near that big a big hug in white America. Plus there's the violence. Yes the biker gangs erupted in mahem but overall black/white FBI violent crime stats tell the real story.
I doubt there are more than a few pale-skinned folks reading this who harbor any romantic sentiment toward biker outlaws. But, it seems the primary cultural outputs in rap and hip-hop do glorify violence and gang culture, which seems to turn into reality - witness the recent murder of the rapper in Queens.
While I abhor the treatment of the black community by police, let's not pretend that if cop-on-black-male violence goes away that the community's problems will be solved. There's much work to do - by the community members, too.
12
And the popularity of Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad, the Sopranos is based on what exactly if not White America's love and celebration of white gangs and organized criminals?
Mr. Blow has become a one-note writer who sees racial bias in every event. He has even distorted facts to fit the narrative, when he did not mention that the policeman who "racially profiled" his son was himself African American. While the topic is an important one for our nation to face, Mr. Blow has lost credibility.
10
I think this article hits too close to home for many. No one is asking as Mr. Blow states "about the family makeup of bikers in Waco". Neither is there much follow up on the police concern that many of these biker thugs are ex marines and have been trained by our own armed forces to kill making them a very dangerous criminal enterprise. Heard that on the news just once.
Riots are not a good thing I agree and inner city Baltimore does have a crime problem as well as an extreme poverty problem. But the real danger is just coming over the horizon and that is the intense over arming of much of white America. Cliven Bundy and his supporters, motorcycle gangs and right wing screwballs have armed themselves to the teeth and are capable of much worse violence than seen in Baltimore. They walk into grocery stores, Starbucks and Targets wit their assault weapons flaunting their supposed 2nd amendment rights to intimidate others. They show up at events near where the President is speaking waving their firearms and have supporters in Congress and at Fox news.
This is a dynamic that is just waiting to fully explode. That's why the feds tiptoe around Cliven and his posse.
As far as the other important issue that Charles is talking about it is really time to fully explore racism and all its ramifications.
Riots are not a good thing I agree and inner city Baltimore does have a crime problem as well as an extreme poverty problem. But the real danger is just coming over the horizon and that is the intense over arming of much of white America. Cliven Bundy and his supporters, motorcycle gangs and right wing screwballs have armed themselves to the teeth and are capable of much worse violence than seen in Baltimore. They walk into grocery stores, Starbucks and Targets wit their assault weapons flaunting their supposed 2nd amendment rights to intimidate others. They show up at events near where the President is speaking waving their firearms and have supporters in Congress and at Fox news.
This is a dynamic that is just waiting to fully explode. That's why the feds tiptoe around Cliven and his posse.
As far as the other important issue that Charles is talking about it is really time to fully explore racism and all its ramifications.
6
Duffy, this has been on my mind too, since this incident. The guns is the really scary part of this, since Waco in many respects is just a "normal" American town, not a poverty-laden big city like Baltimore, where in spite of the name-calling, none of the participants shot or killed anyone. I would add to your list the horrible shooting of Gabby by a right-wing white guy, and the movie theater incident in colorado. Here in CA (liberal?) it's ok to walk into a Starbucks with a gun. Really?
Is white on white violence in Waco a new trend or a continuation? Are scantily dressed waitresses at Twin Peaks Restaurant used as bait to attract violent white patrons? How many weapons do white patrons of restaurants generally carry with them? What causes white men to spend a Sunday afternoon arming themselves for a confrontation in a parking lot?
What about their children? Are they also armed? And the mothers of their children? Are they abused? (Quite likely.) Are these men from broken homes? Is white culture to blame?
Wonderful column. Thank you for your sanity and ability to see clearly, and to write clearly for those who want to understand the deeper issues.
What about their children? Are they also armed? And the mothers of their children? Are they abused? (Quite likely.) Are these men from broken homes? Is white culture to blame?
Wonderful column. Thank you for your sanity and ability to see clearly, and to write clearly for those who want to understand the deeper issues.
12
"By the way, is anyone asking about the family makeup of the bikers in Waco?"
Yes, several did and please note the photos. While most appear white, many are clearly Hispanice or African American. (Some also pointed out that many of the gang members are former military who just can't seem to fit back into normal society.)
They call themselves a club but they're mainly a criminal enterprise moving drugs. (Another argument for legalization) Honest upstanding citizens wouldn't endanger families by arranging to have a meeting in a shopping mall knowing that it would likely turn violent.
We're told that they were men in their "20's, 30's, and 40's" but take another look at those photos. If that's true, many of them must have lead really hard lives.
Yes, several did and please note the photos. While most appear white, many are clearly Hispanice or African American. (Some also pointed out that many of the gang members are former military who just can't seem to fit back into normal society.)
They call themselves a club but they're mainly a criminal enterprise moving drugs. (Another argument for legalization) Honest upstanding citizens wouldn't endanger families by arranging to have a meeting in a shopping mall knowing that it would likely turn violent.
We're told that they were men in their "20's, 30's, and 40's" but take another look at those photos. If that's true, many of them must have lead really hard lives.
3
Thank you, Charles! Powerful, compelling and eloquent. One of your best pieces that I have ever read. I agree with everything that you say, but I simply have no words that could add to, or embellish, it.
9
When I first read the tragic accounts of the events in Waco, I immediately thought of a toxic blend of machismo, alcohol and drugs, and guns, which inevitably led to violence. I did not think of race. And perhaps that is Mr. Blow's point in this column - that the media's choice of words to describe those involved was different because of the predominant race of those involved. I doubt it. I think those words, "bikers", "gangs", and "outlaw", with various combinations thereof, accurately describe, and conjure up negative images for most of us. This is not to say that the terms used by media to describe, say, those rioting in Baltimore, were not unnecessarily inflammatory. But, when I searched on the term "thug" I found two references to hip-hop and rapper groups, presumably self-identified as such. I think there is something that must be acknowledged there too. Racial issues in this country are very delicate, and precisely because they are so they must be discussed - openly and honestly on all sides. From my perspective, all sides have and have made valid points. What is desperately needed is agreement that we have a serious problem, the solution to which I do not think is abetted by seeing racism at every turn. We should all call it out when necessary, but let's all tone it down a notch so we can discuss the issue as calmly and clearly as possible.
4
As the mug shots reveal, the Bandidos and Cossacks are racially and ethically diverse. The term "outlaw biker" is being applied to the Hispanic and African American bikers as well as the white bikers.
1
I think the violence in Waco---"The Whackos in Waco" has
more to do with outlaw biker gangs that deal in drugs and prostitution---
definite criminal acts---than anything racial.
These thugs are no different than the renegades, thieves and criminals
who fled to forests in The Middle Ages to become highwaymen and bandits---hence the very appropriate name "Bandidos".
Of course it helps too that Texas is just full of nutcases with guns who are pathologically obsessed with Constitutional rights and overcome with testosterone poisoning.
more to do with outlaw biker gangs that deal in drugs and prostitution---
definite criminal acts---than anything racial.
These thugs are no different than the renegades, thieves and criminals
who fled to forests in The Middle Ages to become highwaymen and bandits---hence the very appropriate name "Bandidos".
Of course it helps too that Texas is just full of nutcases with guns who are pathologically obsessed with Constitutional rights and overcome with testosterone poisoning.
8
NYT's priorities are off. I read the opinion section of the NYT and WSJ to get a sense of the national debate on the most critical issues of today.
The headlining 4 articles in the NYT's opinion section are on gay blood donors (gay rights), minimum wage, bike gangs (racism against blacks), women rights.
Meanwhile the WSJ's top opinion articles are on "Losing in Iraq Again" (foreign policy), "Hillary vs. 19 Republicans" (politics), "America Plays Russian Rocket Roulette" (foreign policy/economics), "When Politicians Loathe the Press" (politics).
Mr. Blow is a great writer. When I read his pieces I imagine tears streaming down his face with violins playing in the background, but why do I feel like this is not the most important topic of the last couple days? When coworkers gather at the water cooler today will our country become a better place if I try to relate biker gangs to racism against blacks? Should it belong as the third most important opinion piece in the NYT today?
The headlining 4 articles in the NYT's opinion section are on gay blood donors (gay rights), minimum wage, bike gangs (racism against blacks), women rights.
Meanwhile the WSJ's top opinion articles are on "Losing in Iraq Again" (foreign policy), "Hillary vs. 19 Republicans" (politics), "America Plays Russian Rocket Roulette" (foreign policy/economics), "When Politicians Loathe the Press" (politics).
Mr. Blow is a great writer. When I read his pieces I imagine tears streaming down his face with violins playing in the background, but why do I feel like this is not the most important topic of the last couple days? When coworkers gather at the water cooler today will our country become a better place if I try to relate biker gangs to racism against blacks? Should it belong as the third most important opinion piece in the NYT today?
17
Is politician's distaste for the press the WSJ's fourth most important? The world would be a better place if you had that conversation with your coworkers, Tom. This editorial (and every other editorial from the NYT today) reflect a focus on the perpetually shifting domestic culture in America. That's important. That impacts how we live together, how we treat each other, and how we grow as a society. You should be having conversations about what spurs riots in Ferguson in Baltimore, and you should be attempting to relate to all parties involved, not just distance yourself from third-party guilt by melanin. One of the larger points of Blow's piece is not that you should "relate biker gangs to racism against 'blacks'", but that we use different words to describe similar truths. A gang is a gang is a gang, but the pejorative terms associated with black America are well-known and documented. There is undoubtedly a fundamental and widespread difference in the way races are portrayed by the media and the mainstream in this country, and the way they are treated by law enforcement and the criminal justice system. Don't try and relate the two, but ask why 170 heavily armed bikers got arrested and placed calmly on a curb, but why dozens of unarmed protesters in Baltimore were laid face down kissing pavement. Ask why you should care more about the American experience of your neighbors than about 19 Republican GOP candidates 18 months before an election.
I agree with Blow that we glorify bikers and outlaws. I also agree that there are different standards for riots committed by white gangs and riots committed by black gangs. But "thug" is not and never has been a racially tinged word. It describes white people and black people (and other people) equally. I recently used it to describe Michael Grimm, the disgraced former congressman from Staten Island. (Did anyone ever deserve the "thug" descriptor more?). There are words with clear racist implications. "Thug" is not one of them. Can we get over this tiresome thug nonsense?
10
I agree. "Thug" is a word connected to behavior, not race. There are white power thugs, ISIS thugs, Mafia thugs, drug cartel thugs, black gang thugs, and on and on.
What's the connection? Boorish uncontrollable violent behavior unconcerned with the rights of others to live freely. The motorcycle gangs in Texas were full of thugs.They also wore uniforms and behaved in a way that brought "biker" to mind, but "thug" is certainly in the list of nouns one could use. Biker thugs? No question.
What's the connection? Boorish uncontrollable violent behavior unconcerned with the rights of others to live freely. The motorcycle gangs in Texas were full of thugs.They also wore uniforms and behaved in a way that brought "biker" to mind, but "thug" is certainly in the list of nouns one could use. Biker thugs? No question.
2
You are correct that the word had not previously been racially tinged. But recent events, recent media usage, and from that, usage in the vernacular, are quickly helping it evolve to have racial properties.
1
Yes. Yes. Can I get an amen from the congregation? Charles, you continue to fight the good fight, in the trenches, dodging bullets (silly family fragmentation narrative, so-called "evidence" of disproportionate criminality in the Black community), while standing strong, slinging arrows of Truth and Righteousness (decoding the panoply of microaggressions found in modern language regarding people of color - basketball, President, taco Bell Grande).
Please, Charles, be emboldened by the choir, preach Brother preach (oops, I bet your racial decoder went off on that one), let the singers sing, the congregation sway, the Words of Righteousness and Truth bellow from your mighty mind, your swinging sword (yikes, did I do it again Charles?), and your courageous keyboard.
Bravo!
Please, Charles, be emboldened by the choir, preach Brother preach (oops, I bet your racial decoder went off on that one), let the singers sing, the congregation sway, the Words of Righteousness and Truth bellow from your mighty mind, your swinging sword (yikes, did I do it again Charles?), and your courageous keyboard.
Bravo!
7
Mr Blow
When you, in your rants against racism, you start addressing the racism among African Americans - especially their racist views against Asians - I will start taking your columns seriously. If racism is to be condemned, it should be so across the board.
As for the use of the word, "thug", I use it without reference to any particular skin color or ethnic persuasion, political correctness be damned. The bikers in Waco are thugs, no doubt about it.
When you, in your rants against racism, you start addressing the racism among African Americans - especially their racist views against Asians - I will start taking your columns seriously. If racism is to be condemned, it should be so across the board.
As for the use of the word, "thug", I use it without reference to any particular skin color or ethnic persuasion, political correctness be damned. The bikers in Waco are thugs, no doubt about it.
13
Funny you mention African American racist view against Asians. I am AA and I have never held a racist view against any Asians. Neither have any AAs I know. On the other hand read the NYTimes article about the Korean nail Salon owners and the racist treatment of their non-Asian employees. Most Koreans I know are decent folks though, especially the younger ones. To paint every young AA as having a racist view about Asians just show your own racism.
chuck, this essay is far from a rant and is the truth. Where is the outrage from the rabid right-wing and from fox non-news? Mr. Blow is constantly and consistently condemning any and all racism and bias.
Clearly, we humans a eager to quickly characterize groups we view as different.
As for bikers, it is instructive to remember the term they use to identify each other by their "uniforms": COLORS.
As for bikers, it is instructive to remember the term they use to identify each other by their "uniforms": COLORS.
1
Although I usually agree with you and your analysis, I had a hard time with this one. "Thug" to me pulls up mental images of gangsters, mafia types, not Black men. Neither "outlaw" or "biker gang" has any element of romance. I think there are more important issues to discuss rather than something this petty.
11
Why do people join gangs? Because they feel disenfranchised by their society. Blacks join inner city gangs because that is where they live and the gangs give them a feeling of belonging that wider society does not give them. Yes some people from the inner cities go to college but most of those people do not find great jobs. Look at most companies and you see Blacks mostly relegated to administrative and lower management jobs which though better than retail or service jobs are not highly remunerated jobs and many young Blacks are bogged down with debt that makes it look like they have not really bettered themselves. That is the perception of many young Blacks. Black kids go to school and they do not have that much of a better life. So the incentive is not really there. They see the whole work hard and you will succeed as a "white" lie.
So then why would these "privileged" whites join a biker gang. Because the myth that poverty is a Black institution is just that a myth. Many poor whites who think they should have it better by virtue of their skin color find out that they too are relegated to the lower classes. Yes some of them get educations and can move up but those are the ones who are willing to walk away from their culture and change the way they act and talk. Those that can deny their heritage will make it easier than Blacks who cannot deny their skin color.
In today's America class/color more and more determines your success. The American dream is becoming a myth.
So then why would these "privileged" whites join a biker gang. Because the myth that poverty is a Black institution is just that a myth. Many poor whites who think they should have it better by virtue of their skin color find out that they too are relegated to the lower classes. Yes some of them get educations and can move up but those are the ones who are willing to walk away from their culture and change the way they act and talk. Those that can deny their heritage will make it easier than Blacks who cannot deny their skin color.
In today's America class/color more and more determines your success. The American dream is becoming a myth.
1
when I read columns like this, regardless of the particular issue of that day, and then read comments about them, I'm moved to say: folks, the U.S. Has been and still is a race-obsessed and racist society. It is so pervasive and habitual that most of us white folks are blind to it, as fish don't see water. People from other countries have seen this in U.S. and tried to point it out, and god knows people of color have tried. That it sparks debate about whether this core fact is true must be beyond frustrating to many people, including myself and Mr Blow. Some of cannot fathom that this is even debatable. 'Conversations about race' need to begin with the fact of our nation's, our people's racism, not with debating whether that is a fact.
21
A focus on race as well as current and past white oppression and bigotry. So is a focus on crime, dropout, and addiction rates in black neighborhoods.
When the dust has settled and the investigations have concluded, it will be known that the weapons the police profess were used did not exist. In fact, the investigation will probably prove that the wounded and dead came from bullets fired by the police. The police have run amuck in this country. Our court and judicial system have given them a license to kill.
Glad to see you've got it all figured out already. We certainly need people with easy, prejudicial answers, don't we?
No police, whatever their sins? Hello, Somalia.
No police, whatever their sins? Hello, Somalia.
Jim, I am glad you added that point to this interesting discussion.
I'm impressed. Watching the events in Waco from your living room in Austin, you have uncovered the truth that the people on the scene were unable to see. You should be working for the FBI or something.
Charles, while I agree with you most of the time....this one is a bit of a reach....all those terms evoke miscreants and outsiders, thugs vs. bikers?
Really?
The alienation that one feels in a society such as ours is pretty widespread...it can happen anywhere including Texas.
Really?
The alienation that one feels in a society such as ours is pretty widespread...it can happen anywhere including Texas.
4
I think the point being made by Mr Blow is that the media's language is a reflection as well as a reinforcement of the disparate ways our culture views violence and the people who commit it. Biker gang? He's right, its almost a compliment and has undoubtedly been romanticized in the American ethos. Thug is diminutive and is used as a way to reinforce stereotypes of black men in hoodies. This was obvious to me before this column as I watched the coverage of this savage and bloody massacre.
Mr. Blow, have you no shame? At long last sir? Leave it to racial arsonists to see racism and black victimization everywhere with false comparisons. Fact: the murder rate among blacks is 8 times higher than whites, 4 times higher than Hispanics and 16 times higher than Asians. 12% of the population is responsible for 40% of violent crime, 52% of murders, 85% of interracial violent crime and nearly all riots/flash mobs/mob attacks. That's why the comparison here is non sequitar. Biker Gangs, while atrocious, are not responsible for 95% of gang killings in the nation (Bloods, Crips, 18th Street gangs and others are). One anecdote does not prove Mr. Blows self pity. Moreover, these White and Hispanic bikers were arrested en masse and denied due process, something the police did not do during the riots in Baltimore (where they stood back and allowed black rioters to throw projectiles, burning trash cans and then beat patrons and loot stores). If the situations were reversed, I'm sure Mr. Blow would be penning an article about how black biker gangs are held to a different standard than white rioters. You have "jumped the shark" with your victimization and self-righteousness.
22
Where is your white on white crime statistic? That IS the point. You are selecting towards a story. That is the point.
You are making a "different standard" in your very post. Your reasoning absolutely makes the case that white heroin dealers who prey on every community in America are less "atrocious" because you compare them with stats to black on black crime.
You are making a "different standard" in your very post. Your reasoning absolutely makes the case that white heroin dealers who prey on every community in America are less "atrocious" because you compare them with stats to black on black crime.
Wrong, your statistics MAY be accurate (source?) but you're missing the point. The disparities in the way violent acts like this are portrayed between races by the media are inextricably linked to our national racial psyche and as such feeds into the disparate arrest rates, prosecution rates and conviction rates experienced by blacks. These things have a huge impact on the culture of a community and increase the desperation within it. When a community is historically deprived of access to money and power, fathers and sons, that community's values are frayed and the resulting violence must be seen as a symptom not a root-cause of cultural depravity. You are only seeing out of one eye here, Chris.
Chris, let's suppose your facts are all accurate. Don't WE as a society have a massive problem? I am deeply concerned about the violence carried out on black and brown bodies -- no matter the actor -- bc it is a clear indication of societal ills. The biker's actions can be seen in the same vein, we've got a problem when so many feel disenfranchised, when gangs are a viable and preferred option, when innocent people sitting in a diner cannot eat in peace. Let's get to that problem.
Respect for oneself leads to love or at least acceptance of others while fear invariably leads to self hatred and consequently an inability to love or accept others.
Love necessitates giving, while hate only drains.
Paraphrasing the famous Dylan lyric "if you ain't got nothin you got nothin to lose"; if you ain't got nothin you got nothin to give.
Love necessitates giving, while hate only drains.
Paraphrasing the famous Dylan lyric "if you ain't got nothin you got nothin to lose"; if you ain't got nothin you got nothin to give.
Thugs ,outlaws,gangsters,criminals?The terms are interchangeable.
Is Blow claiming that the family makeup of these is immaterial?
Blow consistently argues that Blacks,as a group, are special and different than other Americans.
This depiction inherently increases racial divisiveness which seems to be his goal.
Then he urges us to "love" "the thugs".
His approach is a dangerous downward spiral.
Is Blow claiming that the family makeup of these is immaterial?
Blow consistently argues that Blacks,as a group, are special and different than other Americans.
This depiction inherently increases racial divisiveness which seems to be his goal.
Then he urges us to "love" "the thugs".
His approach is a dangerous downward spiral.
11
The top comments here are instructive of just how much animus and denial still exists around race in this country. "I'm past bored reading them"? Really?
The Civil War ended in 1865. The first meaningful Civil Rights legislation to effectively end segregation and discrimination wasn't passed until 1964. But hey, what's 100-years?
As of 2104
-11% of black men over 20 were unemployed. The median income in the US
for blacks is around 33,000; for whites it's 57,000.
-People of color made up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, but accounted for 60 percent of those imprisoned.
-According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men can expect
to go to prison in their lifetime.
But Charles, black people just don't get it, do they? If they just stopped being gangstas', and stopped being so shiftless and lazy, and stayed in school, and cared about their families, and cooperated with the police when they want to arrest them for selling cigarettes on a street corner, and stopped having babies and got off the public dole, and otherwise just shut up and behaved like all of us good, honest, upstanding, law abiding white people, things would be fine.
Jeez. It's all so boring, already.
The Civil War ended in 1865. The first meaningful Civil Rights legislation to effectively end segregation and discrimination wasn't passed until 1964. But hey, what's 100-years?
As of 2104
-11% of black men over 20 were unemployed. The median income in the US
for blacks is around 33,000; for whites it's 57,000.
-People of color made up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, but accounted for 60 percent of those imprisoned.
-According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men can expect
to go to prison in their lifetime.
But Charles, black people just don't get it, do they? If they just stopped being gangstas', and stopped being so shiftless and lazy, and stayed in school, and cared about their families, and cooperated with the police when they want to arrest them for selling cigarettes on a street corner, and stopped having babies and got off the public dole, and otherwise just shut up and behaved like all of us good, honest, upstanding, law abiding white people, things would be fine.
Jeez. It's all so boring, already.
14
Spot on, Pam. The truth is, we white people got a good thing going here. We find ways to jail as many black males as possible even if they aren't guilty, which disrupts their families, ensures lots of single family households, and makes sure the males are unemployable when they do get out of jail, and then we blame the whole race for the resulting high unemployment and households without fathers. Hahaha. Not only do we get to walk around feeling oh-so superior, but we get to use the dysfunction we cause to get elected to office by promising to be more cruel to those slackers than our opponents.
1
Once again, Charles Blow trots out his one-pony show. Very, very tiresome. The same song and dance every week. I think it's time to change the channel.
18
Mr. Blow,
Can you EVER view the world outside the prism of race? How can you honestly say that the world despises your black flesh? The 'world' has bent over backwards honoring your black flesh in all forms of media, in magazines. Your constant victimization is getting old, repetitive, and basically annoying. Get over it. MOVE ON. Victimization will never lead to the love of self you say you are hoping fo
Can you EVER view the world outside the prism of race? How can you honestly say that the world despises your black flesh? The 'world' has bent over backwards honoring your black flesh in all forms of media, in magazines. Your constant victimization is getting old, repetitive, and basically annoying. Get over it. MOVE ON. Victimization will never lead to the love of self you say you are hoping fo
12
They were referred to as thugs too. I have read it and heard it. Mr Blow, you are manufacturing this out of whole cloth. Someone who loots burns and kills is a thug... white or black. Everybody knows that. If we wanted to use derogatory language about black people, thug is not the first word that would come to mind.
11
Americans once segregated cemeteries,as if there is a different 'destination.The difference between criminal and crook,is 'Nixonian.Eloquent appraisal of the calamity in 'Waco,is just that....'whacked.Various communities view public 'shootouts,with varying degrees of disdain.I fail to see however,the 'positive side,of anything in Texas.
Mr. Blow has a hammer called racism so to him everything appears to be a nail otherwise known as race. He has no other tools so he has no other perspective and no other subject to write about. Unfortunately, this is what people today call journalism where they rail incessantly with false equivalencies and incorrect statements in order to prove his inane point.
>
As with any other group, they have developed a reputation over the years based on their behavior such that it they were to enter a restaurant, then I would leave. Does that make me a biker bigot?
>
I have heard Sally Kohn rail against the media for not calling this "white on white" crime even though Hispanics and a black person were involved. I hear other statements for others in the race grievance industry and it is all the same. They seem to think that despite conditions being different (such as the bikers being heavily armed the violence was confined to a relatively small area, and so forth, that the police should react to every act the exact same way everywhere. Well, it doesn't work that way and all your arm chair quarterbacking does in to make you and other race baiters look look petty and ignorant.
>
But despite all of this, you miss one very important issue. The Waco riot or whatever was a one time event. Last weekend in Chicago 2 were killed and 47 wounded in the black community. The murder rate in Baltimore has gone up 50% in the last month. And so on. These are not isolated or one time events.
>
As with any other group, they have developed a reputation over the years based on their behavior such that it they were to enter a restaurant, then I would leave. Does that make me a biker bigot?
>
I have heard Sally Kohn rail against the media for not calling this "white on white" crime even though Hispanics and a black person were involved. I hear other statements for others in the race grievance industry and it is all the same. They seem to think that despite conditions being different (such as the bikers being heavily armed the violence was confined to a relatively small area, and so forth, that the police should react to every act the exact same way everywhere. Well, it doesn't work that way and all your arm chair quarterbacking does in to make you and other race baiters look look petty and ignorant.
>
But despite all of this, you miss one very important issue. The Waco riot or whatever was a one time event. Last weekend in Chicago 2 were killed and 47 wounded in the black community. The murder rate in Baltimore has gone up 50% in the last month. And so on. These are not isolated or one time events.
10
Mr. Blow. Your insights give insight into troubling over-currents in America's social makeup. There are problems within black communities, but there are problems in white and Hispanic communities too. The difference is exactly what you identify: there is a knee-jerk response to violence in which the whole black community is vilified, while only individual white and Hispanic perpetrators of violence are vilified.
I don't believe this knee-jerk bias is always conscious; it is a long brewing white cultural bias that began 400 years ago. Many whites do not want to acknowledge the terrible heritage of 250 years of slavery, followed by another 100 years of Jim Crow abuse, followed by white resentment, distrust and fear of black demands for equality, all concurrent with white-reinforced views of white superiority.
Today's racial attitudes and friction reflect our troubled past and it is going to take many future generations to repair the damage because too many whites are still in denial. In the meantime, loving yourself is the right path to begin the process of societal change. I am a white male, born post-Jim Crow, who recognizes how my ancestors' values and attitudes have given me advantages and formed my life in both subtle and overt ways.
I appreciate your voice and respect your brilliance. I would love for you to turn some of your attention to weigh in on another troubling problem in American society: our ill, violence-accepting, misogynist treatment of women.
I don't believe this knee-jerk bias is always conscious; it is a long brewing white cultural bias that began 400 years ago. Many whites do not want to acknowledge the terrible heritage of 250 years of slavery, followed by another 100 years of Jim Crow abuse, followed by white resentment, distrust and fear of black demands for equality, all concurrent with white-reinforced views of white superiority.
Today's racial attitudes and friction reflect our troubled past and it is going to take many future generations to repair the damage because too many whites are still in denial. In the meantime, loving yourself is the right path to begin the process of societal change. I am a white male, born post-Jim Crow, who recognizes how my ancestors' values and attitudes have given me advantages and formed my life in both subtle and overt ways.
I appreciate your voice and respect your brilliance. I would love for you to turn some of your attention to weigh in on another troubling problem in American society: our ill, violence-accepting, misogynist treatment of women.
163
Please! All of your comments on history are true, but the simple fact is the violence (but not the protests) in Baltimore and Ferguson was done by "thugs' that took advantage of the situation to do violence and get something for free and not as a means to protest a wrong that society has created. You may feel the need for a "mea culpa" but the public good is only helped by addressing facts and reality in the face of destruction.
"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
Ah yes, now I understand it.
Ah yes, now I understand it.
2
And they all were just protecting themselves.
These biker gangs were thugs. Thug is neither black nor white.
Thug = a violent person, especially a criminal.
Thug = a violent person, especially a criminal.
60
Thugs thrive in America. They are glorified in Hollywood. The Mad Maxes of the world.
1
Stretch - stretch - stretch as far as he can. Among the weakest argument Mr. Blow has ever made in one of his columns. This is very sad because the profound message of this particular column is the vast distance from reality an otherwise talented black writer lives in from the truth. By searching microscopically for evidence of racism in American society, Mr. Blow damages his credibility. No longer seen as prophetic he has become comedic.
And so I continue to read his column - for laughs.
And so I continue to read his column - for laughs.
40
Forgive Mr Blow for punching in his opinion in record time to produce Of Bikers and Thugs. I suggest in compensation to the readers of opinion, that Mr Blow's editor step up Mr Blow's work by assigning him a major investigative assignment to report and interview the major biker worlds of Texas and determining the definition of thuggery as practiced in the biker world. Mr Blow can then point out the differences of thugs among the racial groups within the biker world. I am sure the NYT editors has already been tasked to pursue biker gangs stories otherwise.
I don't think there is any microscopic searching going on--just naked eye reality.
1
Hey Tom:
How come all those white bikers in custody weren't in hand cuffs or zip ties?
How come all those white bikers in custody weren't in hand cuffs or zip ties?
1
Study the history of the Second Amendment, which has its origins in white fear of a slave revolution. Whites have feared black violence for a long time.
20
Charles Blow always says what needs to be said and this column which seemed to be way off base...until I read the final paragraphs.
This column is really two columns and the column about biker mentality and culture versus rioter and looter culture is off base. What happened in Waco happened because people, not just bikers, are free to carry weapons into bars. If the crips and the bloods lived in Waco, they might have been involved in a similar open battle.
Bikers are sometimes scary to non-bikers because bikers exude a kind of power and I believe there is a reason for that. For anyone who rides or has ridden a motorcycle, riding is one of the most exhilarating, nature connected and mindfully present activities there is. Nonetheless, we all have amygdalas and those amygdalas just might be more active when a rider is trying to avoid gravel and other cars on the road. We now know that active amygdalas combined with other active amygdalas and alcohol and weaponry is a recipe for conflict. The bikers in Waco fought each other and all other damage was collateral and sad- yes.
Didn't a group of bikers bash a car on the west side highway not too long ago and weren't those bikers dark skinned?
The sort of generalized rioting that took place in Baltimore was more diffuse and so, would be described differently.
Well, Mr. Blow, you write of love eloquently in any event.
This column is really two columns and the column about biker mentality and culture versus rioter and looter culture is off base. What happened in Waco happened because people, not just bikers, are free to carry weapons into bars. If the crips and the bloods lived in Waco, they might have been involved in a similar open battle.
Bikers are sometimes scary to non-bikers because bikers exude a kind of power and I believe there is a reason for that. For anyone who rides or has ridden a motorcycle, riding is one of the most exhilarating, nature connected and mindfully present activities there is. Nonetheless, we all have amygdalas and those amygdalas just might be more active when a rider is trying to avoid gravel and other cars on the road. We now know that active amygdalas combined with other active amygdalas and alcohol and weaponry is a recipe for conflict. The bikers in Waco fought each other and all other damage was collateral and sad- yes.
Didn't a group of bikers bash a car on the west side highway not too long ago and weren't those bikers dark skinned?
The sort of generalized rioting that took place in Baltimore was more diffuse and so, would be described differently.
Well, Mr. Blow, you write of love eloquently in any event.
Odd, I've always thought it was about apprehension that a central government might tend to oppression and memories of Indian raids.
@ JCFT4 - "...which has its origins in white fear of a slave revolution."
The first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution, known collectively as the Bill of Rights, become the law of the land on December 15th 1791. Is there documented proof that in 1791 the government of the United States was in fear of a slave revolution?
The first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution, known collectively as the Bill of Rights, become the law of the land on December 15th 1791. Is there documented proof that in 1791 the government of the United States was in fear of a slave revolution?
Welcome to Open Carry Texas.
While the article is not what I just wrote the police do face problems but create them themselves with the mentality they allow the States to give them.
While the article is not what I just wrote the police do face problems but create them themselves with the mentality they allow the States to give them.
4
At present, Texas is one of only five states that prohibit the open carry of firearms. The other states that ban open carry are Florida, Illinois, New York and south Carolina. This is why none of the outlaw bikers were carrying their handguns openly. There is a bill working its way through the Texas legislature that would lift the prohibition if it becomes law. However, its passage would simply make Texas gun laws more similar to those in 45 other states.
Sorry, Mr. Blow. I am as liberal as they come, but when I hear the word outlaw I think of the word thug. The two are interchangeable. Your attempt to distinguish between these two recent acts of thuggery in terms of a racial context is misleading and unnecessary.
46
You may equate the two but the two are not equal in terms of connotation and history in this country. Outlaw does have a longer history and one that is not nearly as pejorative, with romantic echoes of the West attached.
Yes, clearly a double standard with these anarchist bikers. Where is the chorus of finger wagging over "personal responsibility"?
26
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
~ Often attributed to SIGMUND FREUD.
~ Often attributed to SIGMUND FREUD.
2
I'd like to write a Rod Serling script in which America faced its original sin generations ago so that now brown skin is no more remarkable than red hair.
Neighborhoods integrated because our grandparents decided to repeal red-lining. Now, there are no more ghettos because no one would choose to live like that.
There was a time when my people, the Irish, were scorned and mistreated as badly as anyone else has been. I wish I could say that it was our sterling work ethic and abstention from whiskey that convinced WASP America that we really were the salt of the Earth, but the eventual acceptance probably had as much to do with our willingness to flout bad laws like Prohibition, the fact that we were pretty pale and without a brogue we weren't readily distinguishable from respectable citizens, and the emergence in the coming years of other minorities like Italians so the country had people at which it could sneer.
But then, there was always African-Americans.
When I was a kid, I would have sworn that our family was not racist, but I grew up telling racist jokes and making racist judgments. To this day, I am more alarmed by two large black men walking toward me than I would be by two similarly-dressed white men. I was imprinted by my upbringing, and as much as I would like to change that imprint, I have only been able to challenge it.
Rod Serling squints and says, "Consider if you will a society in which skin color is unremarkable ...."
Neighborhoods integrated because our grandparents decided to repeal red-lining. Now, there are no more ghettos because no one would choose to live like that.
There was a time when my people, the Irish, were scorned and mistreated as badly as anyone else has been. I wish I could say that it was our sterling work ethic and abstention from whiskey that convinced WASP America that we really were the salt of the Earth, but the eventual acceptance probably had as much to do with our willingness to flout bad laws like Prohibition, the fact that we were pretty pale and without a brogue we weren't readily distinguishable from respectable citizens, and the emergence in the coming years of other minorities like Italians so the country had people at which it could sneer.
But then, there was always African-Americans.
When I was a kid, I would have sworn that our family was not racist, but I grew up telling racist jokes and making racist judgments. To this day, I am more alarmed by two large black men walking toward me than I would be by two similarly-dressed white men. I was imprinted by my upbringing, and as much as I would like to change that imprint, I have only been able to challenge it.
Rod Serling squints and says, "Consider if you will a society in which skin color is unremarkable ...."
31
At least you do recognize the imprint and challenge it, which places you well above many white people. It's amazing to me, as a white woman, how many other whites share their racist attitudes with me thinking (mistakenly) that I agree with them just because I'm white. I even had a neighbor once proclaim in my house that she thought "blacks ought to be allowed to marry whites, but they shouldn't have children." Allowed? ALLOWED?? She must have forgotten that my children are bi-racial. The arrogance still astounds me. Racism is alive and well, flourishing, in fact, in America. I look forward to the day when the mixing of the races renders us all the same shade of beautiful brown.
1
Thank you. You're on the right path.
Thank you, Jack. Your experience mirrors my own Missouri upbringing.
Loving yourself "hard"--your dark skin and kinky hair--in a world that despises you is a monumental and revolutionary act. The young people of Baltimore pushed back fiercely against the term "thug" smeared over them like mud. Did we think they were too stupid to understand the intent? Many white people are shocked when we don't feel about ourselves the way they feel about us: The nerve--wearing droopy pants and hoodies on the street, scaring everybody to death, AND being the class valedictorian! How dare you wear your natural braid outs or dreads in the office AND be a lawyer too!! The only easy, dismissive way to deal with all that diversity of blackness (the most feared thing) in America is to catalog it under "thug."
14
Will this academic crusade to sanitize language succeed in limiting the expression of a racist perspective?
I worry that this didactic assault on terminology will just impede discussion and I'm not sure how helpful that is to the issue of racism.
I worry that this didactic assault on terminology will just impede discussion and I'm not sure how helpful that is to the issue of racism.
12
Well you can't change what you don't know about and people are lazy. We let the media tell us about people.
Knowing that meth dealers get a break that youngsters walking down the street don't get might give some Americans pause.
Knowing that meth dealers get a break that youngsters walking down the street don't get might give some Americans pause.
Give me a break - talk about reaching.
43
This column is no "reach". The reportage of the biker riot was so far from what it would have been had the bikers been black that I'm amazed it took more than two minutes for it to commented on.
Gee, I didn't think anyone had noticed that ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC trotted out rehabilitated bikers of old to inform us the new breed were really working family men with 9 to 5 jobs and the average Walmart shopper had nothing to fear. I didn't see one of the 9-foot armored, combat-ready trucks so readily visible in Ferguson last fall. Does Waco have a SWAT team?
Of course, the Texas governor was monitoring the real thugs: the US Army, whose training exercises were a rouse for rounding up freedom-loving, law-abiding, personally-responsible Texas to take their guns--including the 118 guns found on the scene at Waco--and use false pretenses to ship Texans to secret, FEMA relocation camps. Wow. Waco was a big cost. But at least, with Sen Cruz's help, Texas (and Walmart shoppers!) were saved.
The invisible boundaries of ghetto neighborhoods in the inner cities, domestic places cut off from jobs and grocery stores, mark a high quality of stress that has little to do with the placement of a biker’s patch--places where young men die for walking down the sidewalks and streets of their towns, where men die for selling loose cigarettes. There tanks and snipers maintain order during protests as bikers are allowed to gather freely.
Another Times story noted a relevant quote: “Whatever is in the water is going to go with the current, and whatever is on the water will go with the wind.” We only know the lessons of the winds and never took time to absorb fully the lessons of the deep.
Of course, the Texas governor was monitoring the real thugs: the US Army, whose training exercises were a rouse for rounding up freedom-loving, law-abiding, personally-responsible Texas to take their guns--including the 118 guns found on the scene at Waco--and use false pretenses to ship Texans to secret, FEMA relocation camps. Wow. Waco was a big cost. But at least, with Sen Cruz's help, Texas (and Walmart shoppers!) were saved.
The invisible boundaries of ghetto neighborhoods in the inner cities, domestic places cut off from jobs and grocery stores, mark a high quality of stress that has little to do with the placement of a biker’s patch--places where young men die for walking down the sidewalks and streets of their towns, where men die for selling loose cigarettes. There tanks and snipers maintain order during protests as bikers are allowed to gather freely.
Another Times story noted a relevant quote: “Whatever is in the water is going to go with the current, and whatever is on the water will go with the wind.” We only know the lessons of the winds and never took time to absorb fully the lessons of the deep.
78
When the Tea Party Republicans comes to power as they have in in Texas, and they reduce all government services to those explicitly outlined in the U.S. Constitution, we will be truly free...and all these problems will go away. That's how problem-solving works. Or didn't you know that?
Always love your writing Walter, thanks.
1
John: here's what I do know about Texas' attempts at "problem-solving" and eliminating government. First, its exit from the Union in its own words (Article of Secession):
"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."
"That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; . . ."
But let's be more recent--this month:
Texas limited women’s freedoms about decisions about their own bodies. Texas and its limited government, liberty loving, personal freedom celebrating governor and legislature rushed into law a bill preventing the state’s local towns and cities from prohibiting fracking on private property (after Denton passed a bill supported by its town citizens blocking fracking)—taking away citizen and property holders rights to determine the use of their privately owned, collectively governed resources. They are forced to accept fracking.
In both cases, old and new, Texas created tyrannies, denied rights, and restricted freedoms.
If you can't see that (or didn't know!), join Alice: she has a seat for you at her tea party!
"
"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."
"That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; . . ."
But let's be more recent--this month:
Texas limited women’s freedoms about decisions about their own bodies. Texas and its limited government, liberty loving, personal freedom celebrating governor and legislature rushed into law a bill preventing the state’s local towns and cities from prohibiting fracking on private property (after Denton passed a bill supported by its town citizens blocking fracking)—taking away citizen and property holders rights to determine the use of their privately owned, collectively governed resources. They are forced to accept fracking.
In both cases, old and new, Texas created tyrannies, denied rights, and restricted freedoms.
If you can't see that (or didn't know!), join Alice: she has a seat for you at her tea party!
"
2
Mr. Blow, seriously, white guys are sitting in their living rooms. telling their sons, "Grow up to be a biker, not a thug"?
38
um, the police - i believe - shot a bunch of people, arrested hundreds, etc. you're worried about their tone? perhaps you were hoping for anti-white slurs or something?
27
What is up with that Waco place? And Charles is right. The stuff he says about race is all true. "Black culture" issues and poverty issues are inseparably merged, and that is the fault of white racists and plutos.
34
The point Blow is making is that the power structures like media amplify a message in black crime that simply does not happen with white crime and that absolutely does create public perception through endless repetition. This is not about your racist grandmother being afraid of all white kids. This if about creating a lens that people are then seen through. That can cost an innocent person their life, as we have seen.
Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are not blabbering about missing white dads in Texas or that the white community had better step it up in Waco and control these "thugs" or that the local Baptist preacher has blood on his hands now. Rush Limbaugh is not yelling about the single white moms who let their sons grow up to be in criminal gangs and threaten the very existence of the state of Texas with lawless behavior. Wayne LaPierre isn't on his fainting couch defending people who are now afraid of every 20yo white kid in Texas and might need to shoot them. Media interpretation is real. This story was treated within the narrative of the wild west not urban or race warfare.
Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are not blabbering about missing white dads in Texas or that the white community had better step it up in Waco and control these "thugs" or that the local Baptist preacher has blood on his hands now. Rush Limbaugh is not yelling about the single white moms who let their sons grow up to be in criminal gangs and threaten the very existence of the state of Texas with lawless behavior. Wayne LaPierre isn't on his fainting couch defending people who are now afraid of every 20yo white kid in Texas and might need to shoot them. Media interpretation is real. This story was treated within the narrative of the wild west not urban or race warfare.
760
the bikers were fighting each other, not the community or innocents
Please, let's amplify white crime. That would solve...nothing. There is very little reporting about weekend shooting sprees in white neighborhoods in Chicago. Because it does not happen. We are not creating a false lens to see color through. Violent crime in black neighborhoods in Chicago is so common that it often does not even make the news. And that is racist too? It is tragic. That is what it truly is. Is the media simply not reporting on the riots in Waco as a result of police overreach there? Not reporting on the ongoing drive by shootings in Waco? What should the media amplify, exactly?
1
Maybe the issue is not that Fox and Hannity/O'Reilly are responsible for what is happening in Baltimore and Ferguson, but rather those in Baltimore and Ferguson really are "thugs" and those in Waco are "criminals" and that is why trouble has occurred in each place. Occam's Razor teaches that the simplest answer is usually correct.
2
I don't want to argue with the ideas presented hear, but I would like to expand them just a bit.
We not only have a history of race riots in this country, there are numerous examples of other kinds of riots as well. When crime, poverty and misery accumulate, sometimes violence breaks out. The labor movement is full of examples that mostly involve white people. Quite often there are political overtones. Does anyone recall The Gangs of New York? Even George Washington faced the Whiskey Rebellion, which was actually an armed insurrection in protest of taxes, a riot on sterioids.
We not only have a history of race riots in this country, there are numerous examples of other kinds of riots as well. When crime, poverty and misery accumulate, sometimes violence breaks out. The labor movement is full of examples that mostly involve white people. Quite often there are political overtones. Does anyone recall The Gangs of New York? Even George Washington faced the Whiskey Rebellion, which was actually an armed insurrection in protest of taxes, a riot on sterioids.
13
As a Democrat, I have to say, god you liberals are insufferable! Note I typed "you liberals". I used to consider myself a liberal, but when you can't even tell a blonde joke or watch a rape scene on Game of Thrones anymore, its too much for me. I'm a moderate now, and I have no problem with the media reporting of this incident. The argument has never been about black thugs. It has always been about poor inner city residents, who happen to mostly be black. This whole article just makes liberals look whiny and petty, once again.!
50
The prevalence of degrading and brutalized images of women should not be confused with a marker of our "freedom."
I don't think Mr. Blow had an issue with the reporting of this incident, either. In fact, he endorsed it as a prescription for future coverage of events involving racial groups. Exactly which liberals are preventing you from resorting to hackneyed humor or watching cable TV? Are they the same ones who have declared a war on Christmas by using an offensive alternative, like "Happy Holidays"?
The thrust of Mr. Blow's column was the ridiculousness of those who claim that there's no such thing as racism in the country. It's all just the invention of whiny liberals or character-lacking African Americans, they are convinced. Based on the comments I've seen so far, he seems to have a point.
The thrust of Mr. Blow's column was the ridiculousness of those who claim that there's no such thing as racism in the country. It's all just the invention of whiny liberals or character-lacking African Americans, they are convinced. Based on the comments I've seen so far, he seems to have a point.
The problem here is not "you liberals". You can be a liberal or a moderate or conservative who can think or you can be one who can't.
You are just talking about being comfy.
You are just talking about being comfy.
I completely agree that the tone adopted in addressing instances of mostly black protest and violence is generally different from that adopted for whites, but I really didn't notice it in this case. In the various sources I saw, the tone was one of revulsion, disgust, and distaste. By not citing any sources, Mr. Blow is really just spreading an internet meme.
22
I don't know why the fuss. These bikers were only exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.
16
This column is a real stretch Mr. Blow. When I think of thugs, I think of burly, bullying henchmen. I think of personality, not skin colour. By all means write about race but forget the meaningless segway
19
C'mon, Johnny......thugs and skin color seem to go together. Have you forgotten Baltimore so soon?
Blow,
I know these pathological sociopaths. They are a bunch of rabid dogs, who worship at the altar of white supremacy and fascism. They are the bizarre underworld of craven sub-humans who have no respect for human life. Anti-semitic, anti-black, drug addled killers, rapists, and maggots. They are the sole reason I support the second amendment. Stop the nuanced analysis, and all attempts to think about these murderers. It's a waste of time. They are the patriotic Amerikkkans, who love to wrap themselves in the flag. They are the worst of America, full of mindless hate, the paranhas of the land. Let them eat their young, and kill each other. We'll be better off.
I know these pathological sociopaths. They are a bunch of rabid dogs, who worship at the altar of white supremacy and fascism. They are the bizarre underworld of craven sub-humans who have no respect for human life. Anti-semitic, anti-black, drug addled killers, rapists, and maggots. They are the sole reason I support the second amendment. Stop the nuanced analysis, and all attempts to think about these murderers. It's a waste of time. They are the patriotic Amerikkkans, who love to wrap themselves in the flag. They are the worst of America, full of mindless hate, the paranhas of the land. Let them eat their young, and kill each other. We'll be better off.
17
Unfortunately in this case, support for the second amendment benefits those from whom you seek to protect yourself. It's probable that most of their weapons were obtained illegally, but the vast profileration of guns (some estimates suggest there are more guns in America than people) greatly increases the probability that some of them will make their way into the hands of sociopaths that shouldn't have them. But the NRA's lunacy in stopping any sort of reasonable control means that the Genie is out of the bottle, and we have no wishes left.
"And invariably, the single-mother, absent-father trope is dragged out."
A trope (from the Greek, "turn") is the most general term for any figure of speech: metaphor, metonymy, simile, etc. I've noticed that journalists have been using the term in a an oblique way to cast doubt of an element in an argument without analyzing it. The high-rates of single-parent black families is a well-established fact, not a figure of speech. Calling it a trope doesn't change that.
"Thug" is a Hindi word meaning "cheat" or "thief" and became in English a general term for a tough guy, hood, or enforcer. It has no racial overtones, unless one believes that its Indian etymology is a generally known fact.
Denial and the invention of insults aren't productive, Charles. we need to find solutions, not more grievances.
A trope (from the Greek, "turn") is the most general term for any figure of speech: metaphor, metonymy, simile, etc. I've noticed that journalists have been using the term in a an oblique way to cast doubt of an element in an argument without analyzing it. The high-rates of single-parent black families is a well-established fact, not a figure of speech. Calling it a trope doesn't change that.
"Thug" is a Hindi word meaning "cheat" or "thief" and became in English a general term for a tough guy, hood, or enforcer. It has no racial overtones, unless one believes that its Indian etymology is a generally known fact.
Denial and the invention of insults aren't productive, Charles. we need to find solutions, not more grievances.
44
Solutions require acknowledgment of the grievances. We are far from that and Charles reminds us well. The insults are not invented. You, not he, are in denial.
Blow should have said "stereotype" instead of "trope." Or maybe he meant to overuse another word, "narrative?"
Burroughs, your explanation of the etymology of "thug" is welcome but you fail to notice that of course words take on connotations based on the socio-cultural environment in which they are used. The connotations of "thug" changed from Hindi to English and then changed again when used in American English from roughly the late-80s onwards. Thug certainly has racial overtones to it for parts of the American English speaking world.
As much as I love Charles' thoughts and writing, and indeed totally agree with this article, I'm still struggling with the "new" idea that the word Thug intimates people of color. Not that is matters since in many ways it's just semantics, but thugs to me are all white criminals, especially Mafia types. No?
10
Not true. To you, maybe, but not in curent parlance. Thug culture = black. Look it up.
It surprises me that no one seems to notice that the Waco biker gang violence happened in Waco, TX. Anyone remember anything else bad and violent about Waco and TX? Is it not PC to mention that something may be seriously wrong in TX to be spawning biker gang violence and "thugs"?
12
Something wrong in the state of Texas? The very idea is ridiculous! Just because we have a mentally challenged governor who calls out the national guard to monitor the U.S. Army on the grounds it may be planning an invasion of the state? Or because we have a vocal minority of citizens who think the second amendment defines the Constitution and who like to compensate for other inadequacies by parading in public with large guns as appendages? Or because we appear to have adopted, as a new state motto, the belligerent, "Come and take it!"? Or because the campaign platforms of our governors sometimes include a plank citing the number of prisoners executed on their watch? But the silliest idea is that the vast majority of the people of Texas, who are sane and reasonable, bear responsibility for the insanity described above because they tolerate it on election day.
Charles, the bikers in Waco were thugs and worse. Not only were they thugs, they were ugly looking thugs - so ugly that I would understand it if they tried to kill themselves after looking a bit too long in the mirror, so ugly that seeing photos of their faces on the TV hurt my eyes. Seriously.
These bikers are symptomatic of not so much 'white' culture as 'red' culture - a culture of angry, uneducated white men craving what they allege to be freedom (and the women who unaccountably love them).
Every society has its mutants, and these are the mutants of red society. We in blue society, of course, have our own mutants.
Charles, as the wackos in Waco demonstrate, this thuggish tendency is less rooted in race and more in an aversion to civilization.
These bikers are symptomatic of not so much 'white' culture as 'red' culture - a culture of angry, uneducated white men craving what they allege to be freedom (and the women who unaccountably love them).
Every society has its mutants, and these are the mutants of red society. We in blue society, of course, have our own mutants.
Charles, as the wackos in Waco demonstrate, this thuggish tendency is less rooted in race and more in an aversion to civilization.
40
There is a truly valuable theme in this piece, but I think Mr. Blow has tried
to mix in too many good points in too small a space. The choice of language matters, and it does reflect preconceptions and prejudices, and in many cases
that choice is deliberate -- a code. Here Mr. Blow is right up there with Orwell, and he's on to a good point.
As Malcolm X and good many others spelled out, not only is black beautiful,
but the dictionary definitions alone demonstrate the challenges one must face just to see that beauty clearly in an atmosphere of negative inference generated by the commonly-used words surrounding us in everyday life.
That said, the issues of comparative violence and its context -- a gang fight on one side, a protest gone bad on the other -- each have their own characteristics, without regard to race. The bikers resemble prison gangs -- which very often choose members according to racial criteria, among others -- they just happen to not have been in prison when the fight started. Protesters who get into a violent action are almost literally crying out for help;
knowing their violence is futile, they are trying to be heard any way they can.
If I recall correctly, the first "thugs" were Thugees, and were inhabitants of the area now bordering Afghanistan and Pakistan. They were fierce, ruthless, neither Caucasian nor black. Their heirs are still raising Hell, and, in the eye frame of a very long history, remain undefeated to this day.
to mix in too many good points in too small a space. The choice of language matters, and it does reflect preconceptions and prejudices, and in many cases
that choice is deliberate -- a code. Here Mr. Blow is right up there with Orwell, and he's on to a good point.
As Malcolm X and good many others spelled out, not only is black beautiful,
but the dictionary definitions alone demonstrate the challenges one must face just to see that beauty clearly in an atmosphere of negative inference generated by the commonly-used words surrounding us in everyday life.
That said, the issues of comparative violence and its context -- a gang fight on one side, a protest gone bad on the other -- each have their own characteristics, without regard to race. The bikers resemble prison gangs -- which very often choose members according to racial criteria, among others -- they just happen to not have been in prison when the fight started. Protesters who get into a violent action are almost literally crying out for help;
knowing their violence is futile, they are trying to be heard any way they can.
If I recall correctly, the first "thugs" were Thugees, and were inhabitants of the area now bordering Afghanistan and Pakistan. They were fierce, ruthless, neither Caucasian nor black. Their heirs are still raising Hell, and, in the eye frame of a very long history, remain undefeated to this day.
5
"The bikers resemble prison gangs -- which very often choose members according to racial criteria, among others..."
Does that negate the questions that Mr. Blow says are not being asked? Why did these people become gang members? Single mothers, fathers in jail, drug parents, dysfunctional community growing up? Culture of violence in their music and movies? All questions put forward when the crime is committed by people of color.
Further, Look at those questions and imagine the average white American's response. We feel sorry for the white kid who grows up in those situations and ends up in a gang. He's an individual who caught a bad break as a child. All of white society in NOT held responsible. More importantly, he is an aberration in our eyes. But a child of color in a gang? He is seen the result of his race and "proof" of that race's malignancy. No Mr. blow is exactly right.
Does that negate the questions that Mr. Blow says are not being asked? Why did these people become gang members? Single mothers, fathers in jail, drug parents, dysfunctional community growing up? Culture of violence in their music and movies? All questions put forward when the crime is committed by people of color.
Further, Look at those questions and imagine the average white American's response. We feel sorry for the white kid who grows up in those situations and ends up in a gang. He's an individual who caught a bad break as a child. All of white society in NOT held responsible. More importantly, he is an aberration in our eyes. But a child of color in a gang? He is seen the result of his race and "proof" of that race's malignancy. No Mr. blow is exactly right.
Kind of ironic that I read this op-ed after I read the story about the black basketball phenom killed in Patterson.
Charles if it makes you feel better to focus on one off crimes that involve mostly white people (Hispanics and a Black ex-policeman were also arrested) than the daily carnage in the black community so be it.
Charles if it makes you feel better to focus on one off crimes that involve mostly white people (Hispanics and a Black ex-policeman were also arrested) than the daily carnage in the black community so be it.
18
Sad also was the photo in this newspaper showing crime scene tape being removed from in front of a Bed Bath & Beyond store.
Great zoning, Waco!
Great zoning, Waco!
2
Mr. Blow, always on the prowl for evidence of 'racism,' is offended that the media reporting on the biker's shoot-out called them 'outlaws' and 'gangs,' rather than 'thugs.' According to his line of reasoning, that was because the bikers were 'white' men rather than 'black' teenagers. However, the events that took place in the Twin Peaks Resturant and adjacent parking lot involved gang members attacking each other and the police, rather than burning down their city neighborhood, stealing, and destroying public property. It is wrong for Mr. Blow to use this false equivalence to draw the conclusions that he does. One thing has nothing to do with the other. "Thug culture/life" is not the same as "biker gang culture," and different adjectives can be used to describe different categories of criminal events.
277
You seriously think there is some real difference between people who burn and loot and those in criminal groups involved with gang warfare in a public place and who also were shooting at the police? Wow That is definitely straining gnats. Biker thugs are different than city thugs. Right. This is a perfect example of seeing through a lens.
2
As white people, we (no idea if you are white or black and it really doesn't matter) frequently look down on those African Americans who destroy property and riot in protest of something happening. But think about it for a moment. In the sixties, the idea of African Americans getting "uppity" and protesting even peacefully. was radical and was sufficient to get national attention. Do you know what has been the lesson of late? The lessons these days are that you can peacefully protest all you want and no one will pay any attention to anything you say, the authorities will look and say "awe, that's nice" riot, and all of a sudden everyone is talking about you and though the attention is negative, action is generally taken in response.
1
Would "gangs of biker thugs" work?
2
There was indeed a difference in the media coverage of the biker violence. The bikers were universally condemned as violent, the violence was universally condemned as deplorable and gratuitous, and no biker, no gang, got a pass. The contrasts sharply with the media's portrayal of the Ferguson and Baltimore, etc., riots which were characterized as noble, justified, a cry for justice, payback, and an overdue, seedling organized social movement for which personal responsibility was waived. There were exceptions, of course, but the contrast in themes was clear.
337
Amen.
2
Ferguson was shown to be a place where the law enforcement and justice system were involved in the unconstitutional and criminal endeavor of shaking down absolutely innocent people to fund the city coffers. The riots there were not reported as "noble"- that is the whole point. They were offered as proof that this whole community was implicated in lawlessness, as you actually imply.
Criminal biker meth dealers have no social grievance. They want to sell meth and heroin to your kid and don't want someone else getting their $$$.
Criminal biker meth dealers have no social grievance. They want to sell meth and heroin to your kid and don't want someone else getting their $$$.
1
Notably if anything there were too many arrests!
As the mayhem created by bikers were taking place in Texas, there was a trial going on in New York in the beating of an Asian man in 2003 by bikers in New York. The NY Post, which can be relied on for using inflamatory language, said in the 2004 headline, "Charges won’t be downgraded for thugs in ‘biker gang’ beatdown." The bikers included mulitple races, including a white off duty police officer.
So, while you may be generally correct about the use of negative language to describe blacks, that is not always the case. The tabloid headlines being good examples.
Your points about defying simplistic narratives and dismantling the systems of oppression, however, are well taken. What's more important, I think, is for the black community to constantly emphasize to their children of the need to get educated and do well and giving those who look down on them the proverbial finger.
So, while you may be generally correct about the use of negative language to describe blacks, that is not always the case. The tabloid headlines being good examples.
Your points about defying simplistic narratives and dismantling the systems of oppression, however, are well taken. What's more important, I think, is for the black community to constantly emphasize to their children of the need to get educated and do well and giving those who look down on them the proverbial finger.
13
A brilliant piece that sends message to the heart of men.
8
Oye....it quite apparent why you would consider this piece "brilliant".
Powerful stuff. Great job and thank you for your thoughtfulness.
10
Sorry Charlie, but I get the feeling here that you are mixing apples and oranges to come up with your opinion. No matter what or how you label the bikers or the black protesters they are not the same by any means. How often do these biker wars break out? This is the first one I have heard of in a very long time. Where as the killings of blacks by blacks has been going on regularly for many years. Here in St. Louis it's almost a daily event.
When you mention how the black community should love "ourselves" I think you should have said respect ourselves. Self respect and resect for others seems to be the missing element in the black community. Those that have self respect get an education and move on into the middle class. Those that don't have self respect end up as dope dealers, deadbeat dads and gangsters.
When you mention how the black community should love "ourselves" I think you should have said respect ourselves. Self respect and resect for others seems to be the missing element in the black community. Those that have self respect get an education and move on into the middle class. Those that don't have self respect end up as dope dealers, deadbeat dads and gangsters.
24
Jerry, the willfully ignorant will continue to deny the institutional racism that defines the United States.
Whites have been killing whites and themselves for years. White drug using draft dodger alcoholics become President like the serial adulterer poor Bill Clinton and the WASP George W. Bush. High school graduate entertainer military service evaders illegal drug users become Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.
How many wives and mistresses for Reagan, McCain, Giuliani, Gingrich, Trump, Hume, Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly, Ensign, Sanford and Vitter?
Black protesters are seeking human civil rights. Bikers are typically misogynist racist hedonistic barbarian sociopaths. Or wannabes.
How many wives and mistresses for Reagan, McCain, Giuliani, Gingrich, Trump, Hume, Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly, Ensign, Sanford and Vitter?
Black protesters are seeking human civil rights. Bikers are typically misogynist racist hedonistic barbarian sociopaths. Or wannabes.
This column misses the most important aspect of the whole thing: unfettered access to guns and other weapons, and cops just standing by. The Wild West, its crazy culture, and the power of the NRA is what Waco represents.
145
@ Grant Wiggins
“Humans see what they want to see.”
~ RICK RIORDAN
(b. 1964)
American author;
in The Lightning Thief
“Humans see what they want to see.”
~ RICK RIORDAN
(b. 1964)
American author;
in The Lightning Thief
The reason that the tone and tenor of the rhetoric the media has used to describe the Twin Peaks shootout has been in stark contrast to the language used to describe the protests over the killings of black men by the police is that there have been no protests and no rioting or looting over the killing of the outlaw bikers. The racial and ethnic makeup of the outlaw biker gangs involved in the shootout closely reflect Texas demographics. The mug shots show that many of the arrested bikers are Hispanic and that some are black, but because the majority are white, the police who responded are, for the most part, being treated as the good guys while the bikers are being treated as the bad guys. If the biker gangs had been predominantly black, we would be hearing the same anti-cop rhetoric that flourished in Ferguson and Baltimore.
27
I have no idea if Mr.Blow has ever lived in or interacted with a community that is rural, predominately white, poor and troubled. I have, and contrary to his assertion, can assure him the conversation does often center around culture, family and community breakdown. He might not see these conversations very often, however, because the NYT and most other major (urban) news outlets spend little time trying to explain or understand the deepening problems of rural America and instead devote most of their column space to mocking and deriding it for its politics and religion.
44
I believe Blow grew up in some tiny rural town, not NYC.
Waco is not a rural village. It is solidly Baptist however. The point is that no one is telling Baptists that their town is a cesspool of crime that they better fix because a bunch of white maniacs decided to kill each other there.
Waco is not a rural village. It is solidly Baptist however. The point is that no one is telling Baptists that their town is a cesspool of crime that they better fix because a bunch of white maniacs decided to kill each other there.
Waco is 48.3 percent non-Hispanic white. The city is 37 percent Latino and 11.8 percent black. Catholics probably outnumber Baptists since the city's non-Hispanic white population is split between denominations.
I am old enough to remember when almost all motorcyclists were male and white. Looking now at the assembled mug shots they are perhaps 85% off white. There has been a massive change since we were told that we would meet the nicest people on a Honda, back in 64.
3
Yeah, let's look into what was going on with the Hell's Angels in 64. Nice white boys, I'm sure. And what does "off white" mean? Come on, man up and speak what you really mean.
Misnomers can be awful - especially when the media perpetuates them.
One glaring example is the term "concentration camps" which is used universally to refer to the Nazi's KILLING CAMPS.
Another glaring misnomer is the use of the term "anti-semitism." Have you met a semite lately? The correct term is ANTI-JUDAISM!!
One glaring example is the term "concentration camps" which is used universally to refer to the Nazi's KILLING CAMPS.
Another glaring misnomer is the use of the term "anti-semitism." Have you met a semite lately? The correct term is ANTI-JUDAISM!!
Semites are members " ... of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs. a member of any of the peoples descended from Shem, the eldest son of Noah." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite
And "anti-semitic" should be "anti-Jewish."
And "anti-semitic" should be "anti-Jewish."
You may be right. We did it the smart way back in 1942. When we interned AMERICAN CITIZENS of Japanese descent, we knew better than to call them Concentration Camps. So we called them "Relocation Centers". But they still used barbed-wire fences, barracks and guard towers. It ain't easy being civilized..........
My compliments Mr. Blow, on a balances well written article.
The discussion of self-love and self-respect with regards to black Americans doesn't get near the attention it deserves.
The discussion of self-love and self-respect with regards to black Americans doesn't get near the attention it deserves.
5
What do members of armed white criminal biker gangs, protests groups, cop killers, assassins, drug gangs and terrorists have to do in order to be profiled, stalked, stopped, beaten, shot and killed like unarmed innocent living while black men, women and children?
What do white illegal drug users and those in possession of illegal drugs have to do in order to get arrested, prosecuted, convicted and sent to prison like black men, women and children?
There is no black Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, Arthur Bremer, John Hinckley, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Eric Frein, Cliven Bundy, George Rockwell, David Duke, David Koresh, Jim Jones or Randy Weaver.
White biker gangs are barbarians engaged in all types of criminal debauchery including drug dealing, gun running, murder, sexual assault, robbery, theft. The romance of Marlon Brando in "The Wild Ones" and Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper in "Easy Rider" is typical white supremacist delusional denial privileged mythology that idolizes white cultural pathologies.
Most of the Americans on welfare with poor educations living in single parent homes are white. While the proportion of blacks is higher there are 5x as many whites. For decades more than twice as many whites have been arrested every year for all types of crimes compared to blacks. Indeed, more whites are arrested for each specific type of crime compared to blacks except for robbery and gambling. Poor criminal white people are privileged in America.
What do white illegal drug users and those in possession of illegal drugs have to do in order to get arrested, prosecuted, convicted and sent to prison like black men, women and children?
There is no black Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, Arthur Bremer, John Hinckley, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Eric Frein, Cliven Bundy, George Rockwell, David Duke, David Koresh, Jim Jones or Randy Weaver.
White biker gangs are barbarians engaged in all types of criminal debauchery including drug dealing, gun running, murder, sexual assault, robbery, theft. The romance of Marlon Brando in "The Wild Ones" and Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper in "Easy Rider" is typical white supremacist delusional denial privileged mythology that idolizes white cultural pathologies.
Most of the Americans on welfare with poor educations living in single parent homes are white. While the proportion of blacks is higher there are 5x as many whites. For decades more than twice as many whites have been arrested every year for all types of crimes compared to blacks. Indeed, more whites are arrested for each specific type of crime compared to blacks except for robbery and gambling. Poor criminal white people are privileged in America.
13
Lee Harvey was arrested within hours of the Kennedy Assassination and probably would have been executed if Jack Ruby had not killed him. James Earl Ray got a life sentence and died in prison. Arthur Bremer served 36 years for attempted murder. John Hinckley has been in a mental hospital since 1981. We executed Timothy McVeigh. Eric Rudolph is serving a life sentence. Eric Frein is facing murder charges and will probably get the death sentence. The Feds carefully monitored David Koresh and his follows and ended up massacring them. Jim Jones and his congregation were force to flee the country. The murders and mass suicides happen in Guyana, not the United States. Why is Randy Weaver on your list? Weaver shot a federal agent who killed Weaver’s wife and son, but a jury found Weaver acted in self-defense. He was cleared of other charges. George Rockwell and David Duke have their black counterparts in people like Elijah Muhammad and Malik Zulu Shabazz.
You assertion that twice as many whites are arrested each year for each specific type of crime than blacks is simply wrong. For example, in 2013, blacks committed 2,204 murders while white (including Hispanics) committed 1,834 murders.
You assertion that twice as many whites are arrested each year for each specific type of crime than blacks is simply wrong. For example, in 2013, blacks committed 2,204 murders while white (including Hispanics) committed 1,834 murders.
Charles Blow always has astute observations to offer, and I agree wholeheartedly that "thugs" has become racialized and that white America fears black rage and these prejudices are reflected in media coverage. But there is also something legitimate (and arising in discourse from the left) in contextualizing the Baltimore violence in terms of the effects of discrimination and ghettoization (as the NYT did in a lead editorial about Baltimore segregation). That the violence in Waco is seen as the actions of a thoroughly criminally element while that in Baltimore is seen as the explosion of anger over systematic discrimination is a reasonable and correct difference.
3
The surprising - shocking, really - extent to which commenters reject this powerful column or express impatience with Mr. Blow's returning to again and again to "race," is de facto evidence of the very problem Mr. Blow returns to again and again.
This is a wonderful and necessary essay. Thank you.
This is a wonderful and necessary essay. Thank you.
21
I must say that in this piece, Charles, you're singing off key. Had this story been about two rival black gangs shooting each other up, I doubt the tone of the rhetoric the media used would have been appreciably different. As for the demonstrators in Ferguson and elsewhere who resorted to widespread looting and vandalism, apples and oranges. Normally you advance the discussion with insightful observations; this time you've pulled a Michael Dyson.
11
Your best column this year! As a white seventy year old I concur with your analysis. I've read and watched the media on race and it's biased. The talk radio commentators have made it a form of propaganda.
18
I enjoy most of Mr. Blow's columns, but this is a useless hair-splitting exercise and a waste of Mr. Blows talents.
How does a term like "gang" or "outlaw motorcycle gang" lack the same kind of "pathological markings" that a term like "thug" carries with it?
I never bother to refer to "Nazis" as "thugs," because it is already assumed that Nazis are thugs. I never bother to refer to members of the Crips and Bloods street gangs as thugs, because it is already assumed that Crips and Bloods are thugs. Same thing with terms like "drug cartel members" and "outlaw motorcycle gang." You already assume that they are thugs.
"Thugs" is generic, while "outlaw motorcycle gang" refers to a specific subset of thugs. I hope Mr. Blow doesn't waste his talents like this again in the future.
How does a term like "gang" or "outlaw motorcycle gang" lack the same kind of "pathological markings" that a term like "thug" carries with it?
I never bother to refer to "Nazis" as "thugs," because it is already assumed that Nazis are thugs. I never bother to refer to members of the Crips and Bloods street gangs as thugs, because it is already assumed that Crips and Bloods are thugs. Same thing with terms like "drug cartel members" and "outlaw motorcycle gang." You already assume that they are thugs.
"Thugs" is generic, while "outlaw motorcycle gang" refers to a specific subset of thugs. I hope Mr. Blow doesn't waste his talents like this again in the future.
75
"Thug," by definition, is racialized: "One of an association of professional robbers and murderers in India, who strangled their victims; a p'hansigar" (OED). The British used thug as a slur, pointed at brown-skinned people who committed violent acts.
Let's face it: if a couple hundred black gang members, armed to the teeth, decided to shoot it out amongst themselves and the police in a suburban mall parking lot, the media and powers that be would have reacted much differently than they did on Sunday. I disagree that we need to excuse the behavior of the "thugs" (what's the use of having laws if you do)--but isn't that exactly what the restaurant and hangers-on who got caught up in this mess were doing? White criminal enterprises (mafia, biker gangs) are revered and romanticized just like minority gangs are looked up to and protected in our inner cities. If we're ever going to change "gangsta" culture, we have to stop glorifying gangster culture.
And this would include the gangsters who own most of this country and its politicians.
And this would include the gangsters who own most of this country and its politicians.
8
Mr Blow has a distorted view when he paints his story line suggesting that Waco biker types are an admired romanticised lot and insulted they the bikers were not called thugs as the recent black rioters in Baltimore ere called. Clearly Hollywood has an infatuation with badboy bikers who are depicted as unwashed pirate types who are basically cave men that quick to maim, kill and rape without conscious all in the name of being drug dealers and accomplished career criminals. Mr. Blow having lived in NYC for a long time, we have had our share of these bikers dudes and dudettes who wreaked havoc and destroyed lives in effective ways. I call them criminals and murderers and they got their just rewards in Waco and hopefully most are put away for a long time or executed. Mr. Blow these Waco bikers are thugs too, no doubt and perhaps the rioters in Baltimore are just apprentices or journeymen thugs graduating to being biker criminals and thugs in their next act and then Mr Blow you will get what you are asking for, Hollywood depicting young black males romanticised as righteous heroes rioting and burning down the hood on the silver screen.
9
Charles, often when I read comments to your essays, I see replicated precisely the type of dynamic you're describing.
Many posters imply you're so fixated on race as to demolish your intended premise. And many support the extremely delicate distinctions you're making.--because however delicate they are, they help define the emotional background of language used to describe black protest versus white biker violence.
I'm among the latter group because I find your prose extremely challenging to digest and to admit within myself. When you write, "We can demand the right to call hatred by its name and to its face" I find myself nodding vehemently. Because it speaks to the nature of racist language hurled at this President from people whose inability to tame their anger at an African American president often gushes forth in amazing veiled insults. And I'm speaking of elected officials, as well as the masses.
While I will never have your experience and perception of the world, you help me understand the black perspective more than any other writer, and for that I thank you.
Many posters imply you're so fixated on race as to demolish your intended premise. And many support the extremely delicate distinctions you're making.--because however delicate they are, they help define the emotional background of language used to describe black protest versus white biker violence.
I'm among the latter group because I find your prose extremely challenging to digest and to admit within myself. When you write, "We can demand the right to call hatred by its name and to its face" I find myself nodding vehemently. Because it speaks to the nature of racist language hurled at this President from people whose inability to tame their anger at an African American president often gushes forth in amazing veiled insults. And I'm speaking of elected officials, as well as the masses.
While I will never have your experience and perception of the world, you help me understand the black perspective more than any other writer, and for that I thank you.
28
You need to read more black writers, I think.
Start with Ellison's, Invisible Man.
Start with Ellison's, Invisible Man.
While I typically agree with Charles Blow, his assertion that black violence is somehow treated more harshly in the media than white violence is a stretch. Certainly outlaw bikers evoke romanticism for a certain sub culture but the same can be said for "Bloods", "Crips", drug dealers, and other criminal enterprises. It's an overstatement to suggest that white biker criminals are somehow viewed less harshly than black gang banger criminals. It's also a stretch to compare law abiding, peaceful protesters who have the absolute right to express their sentiments to looters and fire bombers. It's hard to draw a parallel to protesters objecting to perceived police violence to those using the excuse to steal appliances from looted stores
21
Mr. Blow continues to defend the rioters in Baltimore, so "Bring in the Bikers." However, any one watching any of the video could see that there was difference, and making a comparison, even an ill one, would never occur in any one's mind, other than Mr. Blow's. He seems to be personally shamed by the rioters' behavior and desperately looking for a way of justifying it or creating a more meaningful perspective. His appeal to the media, him being part of it and all, seems utterly ridiculous, since the media is the news. It stopped reporting the news with any accuracy a very long time ago, and only uses words to stir the pot. Hey! The riots are old news, until the next one, and there will be a next one because no one knows what to do to prevent it. Anger and frustration is bound to build in any portion of society that is excluded or devoid of hope. Love is not the answer. Doing something about the economic and educational systems is the issue, but it is more than that, and it's not about single parent households. It's about housing, the key restricted element in the original Civil Rights Legislation, limiting integration in to units below a certain number ( I think it was 20). We would not have the problems that we have today, if we were truly an integrated society, and there is every reason to believe that there are many people who still desire segregation and act on that desire. Mr. Blow has the pulpit and should direct energy in a practical direction.
4
I've thought that at least part of the reason I so dislike the use of word thug to label anyone is that it deems to include a dismissal of the humanity of the person who is so labeled. I think the term should not be used, that it has, in a sense, come to be used as a substitute for other labels which the speaker can no longer use.
I agree with what this column lays out, but my concern is that it does not address the receptivity to change of those whom it calls out. Why these people -- people who oppress, disparage, discriminate against people of color -- behave this way is relevant to what would be an effective process that would lead to their changing their attitudes and behavior towards blacks and other people of color. If people are not open to changing their attitudes and behaviors, that makes progress difficult. People who are not open to changing -- to listening and to putting themselves in other people's shoes and to relating to people as equals -- are usually closed off because of problems within themselves, because of how they have come to cope within their own lives using self-protective maladaptive devices. We need to address the damage in people who oppress, disparage, discriminate, if any change is to be more than superficial window dressing under the cover of which the hatred will continue, it seems to me. That's why I tend to see address issues such as this at the basic level each individual's interior development.
I agree with what this column lays out, but my concern is that it does not address the receptivity to change of those whom it calls out. Why these people -- people who oppress, disparage, discriminate against people of color -- behave this way is relevant to what would be an effective process that would lead to their changing their attitudes and behavior towards blacks and other people of color. If people are not open to changing their attitudes and behaviors, that makes progress difficult. People who are not open to changing -- to listening and to putting themselves in other people's shoes and to relating to people as equals -- are usually closed off because of problems within themselves, because of how they have come to cope within their own lives using self-protective maladaptive devices. We need to address the damage in people who oppress, disparage, discriminate, if any change is to be more than superficial window dressing under the cover of which the hatred will continue, it seems to me. That's why I tend to see address issues such as this at the basic level each individual's interior development.
1
OK, fine -- 'the 'T' word.'
I believe you are just trying way too hard to parse the language here, Mr. Blow. I have read few reports on the Waco events, but my first thought did include "thugs," for that is, I believe, an accurate term for that group of individuals who are brutish and involved in criminal activities. Trust me, I did not think about some romanticized vision of "The Wild One." And honestly, using the term "outlaw motorcycle gang" seems pretty accurate.
The decision by you and others to turn the word thug into a racial epithet is misguided. The word applies across the board to biker gangs as well as to those who loot and pillage their own main streets.
The decision by you and others to turn the word thug into a racial epithet is misguided. The word applies across the board to biker gangs as well as to those who loot and pillage their own main streets.
170
Interesting, but I think you should be careful about generalizing from your own thought. To me, the media coverage was heavily suffused with western cowboy biker romanticism. I thought they were thugs, but that isn't what the talking heads were saying. Media criticism needs to focus on what the media says and shows (as Blow does) and not what each of us as individuals had as our inner thoughts.
"Black violence stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people."
Excellent point. Why not also consider a corollary?
"White racism stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people."
Mr Blow, a thug is a thug. Whether the perpetrator is a white biker named Jason Dillard from Waco or Antoine Lawson of Dundalk. Civilized people do not want to live with either for basically the same reason. Thugs destroy the quality of life for others. That is the core of hatred in our life times.
Mr Blow believes that white racism is pervasive in American society and is the root cause of violent black behavior. That such inherent racism is the reason for "an underlying fear of, distaste for, suspicion of the otherness of blackness that informs these beliefs." That data which chronicles the breakdown of family structures and measures the social dysfunctional behavior of ~6% of our population as contributing factors to the violence that affects all of our lives as biased as though not mentioning these factors make them go away.
Mr Blow is simply wrong in his conclusions. There is no vast white conspiracy to subjugate blacks in this country. There are individuals who are biased, who are racists. But, they are individuals and not the "whole of a people."
Excellent point. Why not also consider a corollary?
"White racism stops being about individual people, and starts being about the whole of a people."
Mr Blow, a thug is a thug. Whether the perpetrator is a white biker named Jason Dillard from Waco or Antoine Lawson of Dundalk. Civilized people do not want to live with either for basically the same reason. Thugs destroy the quality of life for others. That is the core of hatred in our life times.
Mr Blow believes that white racism is pervasive in American society and is the root cause of violent black behavior. That such inherent racism is the reason for "an underlying fear of, distaste for, suspicion of the otherness of blackness that informs these beliefs." That data which chronicles the breakdown of family structures and measures the social dysfunctional behavior of ~6% of our population as contributing factors to the violence that affects all of our lives as biased as though not mentioning these factors make them go away.
Mr Blow is simply wrong in his conclusions. There is no vast white conspiracy to subjugate blacks in this country. There are individuals who are biased, who are racists. But, they are individuals and not the "whole of a people."
96
And, in fact, part of the problem may be that there is reverse discrimination. Many blacks are indeed very racist.
My first thought of the Wacko Waco bikers was thugs. Even worse. I don't approve of bikers and I don't approve of black and white (there were whites in those crowds) rioters. Some of those bikers were possibly killed by police. Should all white people and especially biker white folks now hold riots to alert the world of "criminal activity" by the police against white bikers?
My first thought of the Wacko Waco bikers was thugs. Even worse. I don't approve of bikers and I don't approve of black and white (there were whites in those crowds) rioters. Some of those bikers were possibly killed by police. Should all white people and especially biker white folks now hold riots to alert the world of "criminal activity" by the police against white bikers?
3
I would invite the commenter to read/listen to the work of Dr Joy de Gruy Leary and Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome*. The data points are barely available for the history she speaks of (an exception is recent nytimes lynching map).
When looking at racial/community healing, graduate students at Harvard Divinity School (with broad age range/experience) are using her ideas to guide their work.**
* This video gives a good intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQ-Ci6LwVw
** Harvard Divinity School group: http://hds.harvard.edu/news/2015/04/29/racial-justice-and-healing (read: "Programmatic Description and Objectives")
When looking at racial/community healing, graduate students at Harvard Divinity School (with broad age range/experience) are using her ideas to guide their work.**
* This video gives a good intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQ-Ci6LwVw
** Harvard Divinity School group: http://hds.harvard.edu/news/2015/04/29/racial-justice-and-healing (read: "Programmatic Description and Objectives")
2
There are 5x as many whites in America as there are blacks. Whites are the American majority population. Blacks are the minority.
For 90% of Black African American history they have been living in slavery or in legal Jim Crow discrimination. Changing laws did not change all hearts, minds nor institutions controlled by the white majority.
In the 2008 election, 57% of American whites voted for McCain/Palin. That number went to 59% of whites for Romney/Ryan in 2012. Blacks voted 90 + % Democratic for Obama/Biden in both elections as they have since 1964.
See "Coming Apart: The State of White America 1960-2010" by Charles Murray to glimpse the "tangled web of pathology" that mars white family culture and America.
See "Racism Without Racists: Color Blind Racism and The Persistence of Racial Inequality in America" Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and "Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class" by Ian Haney Lopez on the deeply embedded structural nature of American privileged white supremacy.
For 90% of Black African American history they have been living in slavery or in legal Jim Crow discrimination. Changing laws did not change all hearts, minds nor institutions controlled by the white majority.
In the 2008 election, 57% of American whites voted for McCain/Palin. That number went to 59% of whites for Romney/Ryan in 2012. Blacks voted 90 + % Democratic for Obama/Biden in both elections as they have since 1964.
See "Coming Apart: The State of White America 1960-2010" by Charles Murray to glimpse the "tangled web of pathology" that mars white family culture and America.
See "Racism Without Racists: Color Blind Racism and The Persistence of Racial Inequality in America" Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and "Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class" by Ian Haney Lopez on the deeply embedded structural nature of American privileged white supremacy.
1
You've gotten this exactly backwards. The looters in Ferguson were called thugs because it would have been inexcusable to identify them by the obvious characteristic they all shared, their race, as that would have implied their thuggish behavior was a characteristic of their race. The Waco gang members could be referred to as motorcycle gang members because motorcycle gangs are nearly universally perceived to be law breaking sociopaths.
51
Much of what you write could also be applied to American Muslims. No one mentioned the religions of these biker thugs... only when Muslims are involved does religion become the headline. Religion, like color has nothing to do with the violent acts being perpetrated. The vast majority of Muslims in this country love peace as much as the rest of us. After the Oklahoma City bombing, what if every crime carried out by a Catholic had been labelled as radical Catholicism? We all need to eradicate the language of hate and define and condemn individual acts as individual acts.
24
This going on 60 White man wants to thank you for your honest, open, and spot-on assessment of American culture and values.
18
People see the "thug" subculture in our entertainment, our schools, our neighborhoods, and in our daily newspapers when dozens of people get shot over the weekend in Chicago and it's simply recorded as normal. That violence is spreading to the suburbs too.
Bikers stand out. Thugs blend in.
Bikers violence is within, they have grievances to settle, and the spillover killings are minimized. Thug culture threatens all life around it, but the consumptive destructive nature that it champions. Violence is power, not a tool.
You hear bikers coming, and can protect yourself.
You sometimes can't tell one baggy pants violent criminal, from a baggy pants normal kid trying to be cool. Until you get up close, and can see their eyes... You see people in the groceries, theaters, malls, and driving the next car over. Bikers tend to stick to their own dens, I think.
There's a big difference between the subcultures, Mr. Blow, and how we would protect ourselves against threats and help destroy criminal networks or avoid them altogether. It's not helpful to conflate the two.
(Just like, it's another tactic in some northern cities to protect vulnerable black immigrants whose children are being recruited by ISIS and jihadi extremists. You can't lump these subcultures, and the threats the children face from them, together. You do a disservice to people working in these fields.)
Bikers stand out. Thugs blend in.
Bikers violence is within, they have grievances to settle, and the spillover killings are minimized. Thug culture threatens all life around it, but the consumptive destructive nature that it champions. Violence is power, not a tool.
You hear bikers coming, and can protect yourself.
You sometimes can't tell one baggy pants violent criminal, from a baggy pants normal kid trying to be cool. Until you get up close, and can see their eyes... You see people in the groceries, theaters, malls, and driving the next car over. Bikers tend to stick to their own dens, I think.
There's a big difference between the subcultures, Mr. Blow, and how we would protect ourselves against threats and help destroy criminal networks or avoid them altogether. It's not helpful to conflate the two.
(Just like, it's another tactic in some northern cities to protect vulnerable black immigrants whose children are being recruited by ISIS and jihadi extremists. You can't lump these subcultures, and the threats the children face from them, together. You do a disservice to people working in these fields.)
19
Charles, if you prefer to call the protestors in Baltimore "violent rioters" as some form of politically correct synonym for thug, then that is your choice.
What should we call Black motorcycle gang members?
Not sure why a biker gang fight and protests in Baltimore should be compared as somehow equivalent events.
I'm afraid that Charles is too focused on finding racial slights, even where there may be none, and not focused enough on positive solutions that don't have everyone other than the Black community required to do something.
What should we call Black motorcycle gang members?
Not sure why a biker gang fight and protests in Baltimore should be compared as somehow equivalent events.
I'm afraid that Charles is too focused on finding racial slights, even where there may be none, and not focused enough on positive solutions that don't have everyone other than the Black community required to do something.
104
You hit the nail on the head. He's acting no differently than the conservatives who scour the news for things to blame on Obama or Hillary each and every day like a bloodsport. Shame, Mr. Blow is by far my favorite opinion writer. I've read his words to my 10 year old son as a life lesson. I won't be reading him this piece, though.
I was with you until the last few paragraphs when you prescribe some sort of miraculous fog of love as a policy prescription for structural inequality. Sudden paradigm shifts born from within a community would be great, but I can't remember the last time such a thing has happened. Serious solutions include tax reform, minimum wage reform, and proposals that are economic in root. Unfortunately, until crime doesn't look the like best option for many (a decision of course reenforced by peer pressure)--and until this pool of candidates doesn't have a racial bias, then our vision of young blacks as thugs is unlikely to change, and this sudden love is quite unlikely to sprout out of the ground.
7
Frankly, I think rather than representing something "universal" about white or Hispanic culture, the violence in Waco strongly argues for adding a "k" to the town's name. It can't be a complete coincidence that the Branch Davidians also chose the venue for their hold-out back in the '90s.
This is a very personal column, this extolling of "hard" love for race and complexion, even of the rioters in Baltimore; but mostly an exhortation for BLACK people to love black people. But has that ever been the problem? In a population where our black community represents only 12.6% of Americans (Wikipedia), we should be developing arguments for WHITE people to love blacks.
TOO unlikely in America, from a practical perspective? Perhaps. This is why I've long agitated for attacking the problem obliquely by focusing on class rather than on melanin. There are a lot more impoverished whites in this country than blacks: if we focus on the supports for social mobility, such as education, irrespective of complexion, we'll pull our black community along with all those whites. Eventually, the rage that made some of the violence in Baltimore understandable should moderate for want of justification.
But we'll always have bikers and "thugs". Disturbingly, a symbol of finally being on the road to addressing our racial problems could be a black man on a Harley.
This is a very personal column, this extolling of "hard" love for race and complexion, even of the rioters in Baltimore; but mostly an exhortation for BLACK people to love black people. But has that ever been the problem? In a population where our black community represents only 12.6% of Americans (Wikipedia), we should be developing arguments for WHITE people to love blacks.
TOO unlikely in America, from a practical perspective? Perhaps. This is why I've long agitated for attacking the problem obliquely by focusing on class rather than on melanin. There are a lot more impoverished whites in this country than blacks: if we focus on the supports for social mobility, such as education, irrespective of complexion, we'll pull our black community along with all those whites. Eventually, the rage that made some of the violence in Baltimore understandable should moderate for want of justification.
But we'll always have bikers and "thugs". Disturbingly, a symbol of finally being on the road to addressing our racial problems could be a black man on a Harley.
1
@Richard Luettgen, "we'll pull our black community along with all those whites"
Kind of like a rising tide will lift all boats? Well we see how that turned out for our country. And, what will happen to black people under this proposal is that they will be obliterated, while White America, rich and poor, will shrug their shoulders self-righteously and claim we just could not cut it. No thanks.
Kind of like a rising tide will lift all boats? Well we see how that turned out for our country. And, what will happen to black people under this proposal is that they will be obliterated, while White America, rich and poor, will shrug their shoulders self-righteously and claim we just could not cut it. No thanks.
Cyber30:
I get a lot of invective in response to my comments, but rarely do I get a response that's so utterly devoid of anything that could be called linear reasoning. It's amazing that absolutely NOTHING makes sense in your response.
I get a lot of invective in response to my comments, but rarely do I get a response that's so utterly devoid of anything that could be called linear reasoning. It's amazing that absolutely NOTHING makes sense in your response.
>
Bikers have always had the archetypical Nazi mentality (the black, the helmets etc...), and it is no coincidence that these happen to roam in TX, connect the dots. Before the Nazis, Marx called them the Lumpenproletariat, a class that would never realize class consciousness and would be the ruffians for the rich men with soft ladies hands.
Bikers have always had the archetypical Nazi mentality (the black, the helmets etc...), and it is no coincidence that these happen to roam in TX, connect the dots. Before the Nazis, Marx called them the Lumpenproletariat, a class that would never realize class consciousness and would be the ruffians for the rich men with soft ladies hands.
4
Thug is as pejorative as the N-word, not. Both have been adopted. I must've missed the memo where the right to use the word thug was reserved solely for black men. Reasonable men would conclude bikers to be a subset of the word thug. Unless of course you intend to stir the pot.
49
Big difference Charles, they committed violence against themselves, not innocent people. Bad people fighting with bad people. it's not about race. And it is ridiculous to compare this to Ferguson. I find this a very odd viewpoint.
139
I suggest you go back and review what many commentators said about Ferguson and how they then linked it to black-on-black violence, decrying how those "thugs"--and deficiencies in black culture--lead them to commit crimes on their own people. It's the same old double standard.
1
You don't understand, Hawk. These gangs commit violence against innocent people regularly by trafficking girls and extortion. Don't be duped by the big teddy bear image that is a common image because there are many motorcycle clubs (not outlaw gangs) that dress in a similar manner as these thugs. These clubs are comprised of law abiding people who, for some reason like to dress up like thugs.
Tell that to the bystanders who were ducking for cover. While those bullets were seeking other bikers.
Hogwash
Hogwash
1
The world is at war. The Military Industries are winning every battle anyone fights in, or is killed by. Newspaper Gospel Choirs are just part of the noise. We are what we do. We pretend we understand, but, we just die, over and over.
4
Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking on the reaction to this horrible melee by the media and people in general. Thank you for understanding and articulating "loving hard" better than I ever could.
16
I know you won't print this
The Sin City Diciples
They were a predominately black motorcycle gang fonded in 1966 in Gary Indiana. Though primarily a black gamg they have accepted other races. They have 1,200 members
You mentioned nothing of the history between these 2 gangs? Why is that? First
Cassocks were formed in 1969
They are considered to be very violent
8 members were Branc Davidians and died with Koresh
Bandidos
Much lager gang and are considered a Tier 2 gang. The second most violent
They were started in San Leon Tx by a them 36 year old vet when formed
They have 2,500 members in 53 chapters
Traffic cocaine, and make, sell and distribute cocaine
Did you know that Bandidos Chrtis Jack Lewis was arrested in Nov 2013 that he stabbed 2 members of the Cossacks? Don't you think that helped prime the pump?
If you're going to make reference to Waco don't you tholink you should give all relevant information?
The Sin City Diciples
They were a predominately black motorcycle gang fonded in 1966 in Gary Indiana. Though primarily a black gamg they have accepted other races. They have 1,200 members
You mentioned nothing of the history between these 2 gangs? Why is that? First
Cassocks were formed in 1969
They are considered to be very violent
8 members were Branc Davidians and died with Koresh
Bandidos
Much lager gang and are considered a Tier 2 gang. The second most violent
They were started in San Leon Tx by a them 36 year old vet when formed
They have 2,500 members in 53 chapters
Traffic cocaine, and make, sell and distribute cocaine
Did you know that Bandidos Chrtis Jack Lewis was arrested in Nov 2013 that he stabbed 2 members of the Cossacks? Don't you think that helped prime the pump?
If you're going to make reference to Waco don't you tholink you should give all relevant information?
9
Why? Nobody else does (including you).
Any such national discussion MUST include the problem of mainstream black culture being less adaptive than most others. There will NEVER be any total end to racism until whites lose their rational reasons to fear blacks, on average, more.
19
Where is the outrage behind this White on White Crime?
21
Stop making jokes.
Where is the outrage that the police might have killed a number of these nine people? Why is the media playing word games, and giving up on reporting on potential police killings?
Where is the outrage that the police might have killed a number of these nine people? Why is the media playing word games, and giving up on reporting on potential police killings?
3
Excellent !
The last time a gun was held to my head was by a motorcycle gang member in front of my oldest daughter back in 2002 to save her from becoming a motor cycle chick riding on the back of a motor cycle. WEakness , vulnerabity , tender loving care won the day,the year and eternity figure of speech faced with rage, brutality ,control of every thing that moves to gain a place in our greed filled capitalist system infecting all our people and it only gets worse so it seems
Just a month ago I interrupted my middle daughter watching sons of anarchy . YIKES! What is that about? And my youngest daughter has been attracted by two motorcycle males in the past year. But all three of them have chosen males who love them by serving them not by appearing powerful but always there for them.
the story of Jacob and Esau ,jacob fleeing Esau ,the sons of Jacob murdering all the men for avenging family pride and throwing their brother Joseph into slavery and ending up in prison and now we have a black me as President of THE FREE WORLD
WOW!!!
Instead of more slavery as it was with Joseph's family for over 400 years , may this story with our first black president be about freeing black men from every type of slavery and every prison
The last time a gun was held to my head was by a motorcycle gang member in front of my oldest daughter back in 2002 to save her from becoming a motor cycle chick riding on the back of a motor cycle. WEakness , vulnerabity , tender loving care won the day,the year and eternity figure of speech faced with rage, brutality ,control of every thing that moves to gain a place in our greed filled capitalist system infecting all our people and it only gets worse so it seems
Just a month ago I interrupted my middle daughter watching sons of anarchy . YIKES! What is that about? And my youngest daughter has been attracted by two motorcycle males in the past year. But all three of them have chosen males who love them by serving them not by appearing powerful but always there for them.
the story of Jacob and Esau ,jacob fleeing Esau ,the sons of Jacob murdering all the men for avenging family pride and throwing their brother Joseph into slavery and ending up in prison and now we have a black me as President of THE FREE WORLD
WOW!!!
Instead of more slavery as it was with Joseph's family for over 400 years , may this story with our first black president be about freeing black men from every type of slavery and every prison
3
And may you continue to fight off the bikers threatening to put your daughters on the backs of their bikes and carry them off.
1
I'd just like to point out, there is a difference between "Bikers" and what I call "motorcyclists." As a motorcyclist, I love the machines. (from scooter on up) I pay attention to the races, I read about the amazing technology advances, When I ride with a group, there is as much variety among brands, models, years intended use, as there is among us as people. We are definitely not "bikers." Just people who like motorcycles like others like fishing or some other passion.
1
Charles, you can bob and weave all day long, but the statistics are not on your side. There is a "culture" problem in the Black community that is played out everyday with high rates of violence and murder, abysmal graduation statistics, and the very highest percentage of births out of wedlock.
Whitey is not pulling those triggers, deciding to drop out of school, or insisting on unprotected sex. No Officer Krupke mentality, or Hug-A-Thug program is going to change that. This constant stream of words, designed to deny us the truth - seen through our own eyes - is a disservice to African Americans.
Any sane person will tell you that to solve a problem, you first have to clearly see the nature of that problem. The constant-ness of your deflection only exacerbates the issues that face the Black community.
Whitey is not pulling those triggers, deciding to drop out of school, or insisting on unprotected sex. No Officer Krupke mentality, or Hug-A-Thug program is going to change that. This constant stream of words, designed to deny us the truth - seen through our own eyes - is a disservice to African Americans.
Any sane person will tell you that to solve a problem, you first have to clearly see the nature of that problem. The constant-ness of your deflection only exacerbates the issues that face the Black community.
247
You call for clarity of vision, but then seem to intentionally mis-read Mr. Blow's main point about the "nature of the problem". It's not about Black culture but about clear biases that exist in our society.
3
The problem is that when people actually study the situation, that is, actual social scientists doing rigorous studies and using the best methods our species has available, they see that you're wrong. Not just wrong, but not even anywhere close to what the actual problem is.
For example, the absent father narrative, is utter rubbish. Black fathers are actually just as likely to be a part of their children's lives as white fathers, in fact, statistically speaking, they're actually slightly more likely to spend time (quality time included) with their children. But of course, why look at the actual picture, when you can simply come up with angry beside the point rhetoric about a culture of fatherlessness.
Oh and I should point out that white, black, Asian or otherwise, minority groups that are subject to certain stresses and constraints within a society, invariably start to experience the same set of social problems. Look at Caucasians in Russia, Uighurs in China, First Nations in Canada, Maoris in New Zealand, etc.
Society as a whole has to face problems squarely and then choose to resolve them.
For example, the absent father narrative, is utter rubbish. Black fathers are actually just as likely to be a part of their children's lives as white fathers, in fact, statistically speaking, they're actually slightly more likely to spend time (quality time included) with their children. But of course, why look at the actual picture, when you can simply come up with angry beside the point rhetoric about a culture of fatherlessness.
Oh and I should point out that white, black, Asian or otherwise, minority groups that are subject to certain stresses and constraints within a society, invariably start to experience the same set of social problems. Look at Caucasians in Russia, Uighurs in China, First Nations in Canada, Maoris in New Zealand, etc.
Society as a whole has to face problems squarely and then choose to resolve them.
5
"Whitey is not pulling those triggers, deciding to drop out of school, or insisting on unprotected sex."
Actually, whitey does make all of the decisions and allocates the resources that determine how many choices and opportunities poor Black people have in front of them.
For those who are trapped in the ghetto, a hug not only means the warmth of the human embrace, but the warmth of caring enough to ensure they have equal access to opportunity.
“The American creed has been used as a weapon against African Americans and poor people in this country. If you in fact accept the reality of the American creed as really describing the situation on the ground in American society, then you have a group that is not living up to expectations. Then it must be because this group down here is inferior.”
Professor James Sidanius, Harvard University
Actually, whitey does make all of the decisions and allocates the resources that determine how many choices and opportunities poor Black people have in front of them.
For those who are trapped in the ghetto, a hug not only means the warmth of the human embrace, but the warmth of caring enough to ensure they have equal access to opportunity.
“The American creed has been used as a weapon against African Americans and poor people in this country. If you in fact accept the reality of the American creed as really describing the situation on the ground in American society, then you have a group that is not living up to expectations. Then it must be because this group down here is inferior.”
Professor James Sidanius, Harvard University
7
It *is* about culture: gun culture. This is what the NRA, complicit republicans and cowardly democrats have wrought, and more of it will be coming soon to town near you.
223
It's true...If you make people very, very scared. Which the media is very, very good at doing..... Then you add arming every man ,woman and child with guns .... then this is what you get....period......
1
In the eyes of White America rioting blacks are much more dangerous than mayhem-causing bikers. Black riots are social and political statements and many whites see the pitchforks being sharpened. A few murderous bikers? That's seen in every variation every weeknight on prine TV.
19
I am a White American. At what point did you become my spokesman? Your comment seems to imply you know what I think. I doubt seriously that is the case I worked in California prisons for 23 years. Who is the Crips chief rival? Bloods. Both are black gangs do you think their battles are philosophical? They are over territory and drug trafficking and in some cases extortion. Please explain to me what the mindset in the black communities over what I just described
Should I make generalized, baseless accusations about the significant rise in Anti Semitism? That would be as ridiculous as thinking you can paint all whites with the same brush
Should I make generalized, baseless accusations about the significant rise in Anti Semitism? That would be as ridiculous as thinking you can paint all whites with the same brush
2
Thank you, Healed by god, for pointing out that as white people, you and I will not be lumped together. That would be mortifying for me.
3
Thank you again Mr. Blow, for pointing out an important bias in media reporting. Although it may sometimes appear subtle it is nonetheless true, national reporting of Black activity often reinforces negative stereotypes and promotes unwarranted fear.
I don't know if the media is oblivious to this pattern or if it consciously supports negative stereotypes and boosts fear to make its audiences comfortable and gain market share. In any case, your pointing this out holds the media accountable for their actions.
I don't know if the media is oblivious to this pattern or if it consciously supports negative stereotypes and boosts fear to make its audiences comfortable and gain market share. In any case, your pointing this out holds the media accountable for their actions.
16
Sorry, but Mr. Blow, normally spot-on seems to have taken a somewhat random, racialized tangent in this analysis of current events. The slang terms used to describe individual or group sociopathic behaviors, thug/outlaw, has more to do with geography than skin tone. Thug is a predominantly urban term, hence Al Capone and his thugs, while outlaw is generally a rural term, ex: the outlaw Josey Wales and outlaw bikers. I find it a bit troubling that the black community seems to be trying recently to 'own' the term Thug and not terms like Lover or Innovator.
Any thinking person knows that human trash, like human treasure, comes in a rainbow of skin tones and phenotypes.
Instead of the racially divisive tone I wish Mr. Blow would have looked at the root causes underlying the disintegration of societal cohesion such as poverty, lack of respect for community authority figures, profit driven media influences and political culture.
Any thinking person knows that human trash, like human treasure, comes in a rainbow of skin tones and phenotypes.
Instead of the racially divisive tone I wish Mr. Blow would have looked at the root causes underlying the disintegration of societal cohesion such as poverty, lack of respect for community authority figures, profit driven media influences and political culture.
164
This speaks to the racism of the media who controls the narrative. How would this riot and murder scene by thugs, that left nine deal and 18 wounded have been covered had it been done by African Americans? It is really a condemnation of the media.
79
The media is overwhelmingly liberal so ask yourself if your comment is factual or hyperbole
9
Perhaps if you were to remove your conservative goggles you would be able to see the difference. The media covers crime by black people in a more frightening way than that by white people. A recent study in several regions of the country showed that you are more likely to see a crime by black people to be covered on the nightly news, giving people a warped sense of proportionality.
8
Exactly. I fnd it interesting how many people on here missed that and instead moved to defensiveness about race (that's not how I think at all!), or attempts to shift it to Blow ("all you think about is race - you're the one with the problem"), or excuses for the disparity ("it's an urban/rural thing," "it's a Eastern/Western thing," "it's about inward vs. outward directed mayhem," etc.), or (most implausible of all) word pedantry about whether thug is an exclusively racial epitaph (Blow never say it is) or whether "outlaw" and the like mean the same thing (talk about intellectually dishonest!).
To. This reader, so much vexed and strenuous evasion by the commentators suggest that Blow has struck a hit: pointing out a truth so uncomfortable and indisputable that people feel compelled to deny and dissemble outrageously.
To. This reader, so much vexed and strenuous evasion by the commentators suggest that Blow has struck a hit: pointing out a truth so uncomfortable and indisputable that people feel compelled to deny and dissemble outrageously.
1
when did "thug" become a racial term? growing up it iwas a term we use for antisocial, violent, predatory people. these groups were also into vandalism and random destruction. The 1st thugs that intimidated me in my youth were white gang members that would corner smaller groups of younger boys to bully and rob. Those are the people I think of 1st when I hear the term... To me, outlaws are hardened criminals, much worse than thugs, who tend to be petty criminals. get real
151
Exactly. So why is the term only being used these last few weeks to describe miscreants in Baltimore and not those in El Paso. Blow's point isn't that it is a racial term - it is that using it to describe black people but not white people behaving the same way is racially biased. And he's right. If you want to call folks in Baltimore thugs, fine, but then use the same language for El Paso.
1
It appears to me that black culture has adopted the word 'thug' with all its negative associations, and now Blow and others like him criticize other for using it.
6
These motorcycle "clubs" have some surprisingly educated, wealthy members. They educate their members about their civil rights, specifically regarding the 4th Amendment and how it limits law enforcement's ability to effectively deal with them. They conduct most of their criminal business on/in private property, out of view of the majority of the public. They use lawyers to file lawsuits, which have been largely successful, to prevent local police departments from designating them as criminal street gangs. This is why the police, and savvy reporters who value their houses, are hesitant to call them what we all know they are: disgusting criminals. It has very little to do with race Mr. Blow.
360
This is a really interesting comment and very enlightening about the "surprisingly educated, wealthy members" who can leverage the political and legal system to their advantage.
I would disagree with the last sentence though, "It has very little to do with race Mr. Blow." Who but the race at the top of the economic ladder can be the educated and wealthy members?
I would disagree with the last sentence though, "It has very little to do with race Mr. Blow." Who but the race at the top of the economic ladder can be the educated and wealthy members?
4
This is about race as in biologically evolutionary DNA East African human.
This is about race as in colored by American socioeconomic political educational history.
This is all about race as in the privileged misogynist white supremacist pathology prevalent in too many biker gangs, fraternities, social clubs, political parties, business organizations and faiths.
This is about race as in colored by American socioeconomic political educational history.
This is all about race as in the privileged misogynist white supremacist pathology prevalent in too many biker gangs, fraternities, social clubs, political parties, business organizations and faiths.
4
Amazingly, little of what you said is true. Name me one "surprisingly educated, wealthy" member of a rogue, murderous club, that is: Hells Angels, Pagans, Bandidos, etc., who has prevented a local police from designating them a criminal street gangs? That doesn't even make sense.
1
One of the points lost here is the complicity of the media -- news directors at television stations especially but also newspaper editors and bloggers -- who perpetuate the thugs meme and draw the racial boundaries of words. If these editors took some responsibility and stopped pandering, the narratives would change quite quickly. I doubt that this is subconscious bias, it's overt bias and moral negligence and breathtaking pandering to the biased among us to use terms like "thugs" without blinking an eye. And if anyone wants to see thugs used in a more neutral context, see Bill Buford's very good book on soccer hooligans in the UK called "Among the Thugs." Scrub the bias, editors. Out out, damned spot.
23
First step is to change the baby daddy/baby momma culture. If that is the basis of family life then you go backwards, not forward.
15
The bikers in Waco had baby daddies and baby mommas?
19
Did you even bother to read the article? He was talking about criminality of white/Hispanic bikers, not of black people.
12
Oops, sorry. I guess I didn't read the story very well. How many babies and mommas were killed again? Or were they the one's doing the killing?
7
"Does the violence in Waco say something universal about white culture or Hispanic culture?"
Well, it certainly says something about American culture-- with all due respect, you'd have to be blind to think otherwise. And since American culture is still, by and large, a predominantly white culture, yes, I think the violence in Waco does say something about white culture in America.
(Mind you I am writing these words while on holiday in Berlin, Germany-- a city whose own complicated history has more than a bit to offer to the fullness of "white culture.")
Well, it certainly says something about American culture-- with all due respect, you'd have to be blind to think otherwise. And since American culture is still, by and large, a predominantly white culture, yes, I think the violence in Waco does say something about white culture in America.
(Mind you I am writing these words while on holiday in Berlin, Germany-- a city whose own complicated history has more than a bit to offer to the fullness of "white culture.")
72
"(Mind you I am writing these words while on holiday in Berlin, Germany-- a city whose own complicated history has more than a bit to offer to the fullness of 'white culture.')"
Blow would probably say that having a father in the home did not prevent World Wars I and II.
Blow would probably say that having a father in the home did not prevent World Wars I and II.
Adults on motorized, luxury sports bikes have the luxury of choice... a choice to behave as "rebels without a cause," and to "role play" as threats to civil order, or worse, to engage in criminal behavior, while employing the personae of "actors" who brazenly call attention to themselves in an effort to cause others to cower-- a kind of criminal street theater. Poor minority children have no luxury of choice... subtle and ,oft times, tragically, implicit and overt racism are the seeds of disillusion, hopelessness, and anger.
354
These thugs were not riding _sport bikes_; Harley's are not sport bikes.
Sport bikes are generally faster, racier, more modern looking and
better handling then heavy, loud slow Harley's....
Sport bikes are generally faster, racier, more modern looking and
better handling then heavy, loud slow Harley's....
11
A new Harley-Davidson can cost up to $33,000 or more. Maybe not a sport bike, but definitely a luxury.
7
I think you missunderstand who these people are. These are not doctors and accounts on their polished Harleys on a Sunday ride. They are criminal gangs with a uniform. Akin to the Bloods and Crips with their Escalades and "pimped rides," and should be covered as such by the media.
2
First of all, we all Africans.
Humans evolved in Africa. Lucy was not found in Orange County CA. Some of our ancestors, for truly unknowable reasons, decided they preferred cold, dark, miserable places and so lost their color.
Second, for most people, it is hard to overcome the cognitive dissonance of enslaving a fellow human being. But for a lesser species, break out the whips, shackles and get that cotton picked, toted, ginned and loaded.
America's original sin, slavery, which we inherited from the British (like our Irish) required a body of rationalisations to hide a purely mercenary abuse of fellow human beings, ergo, they must less than human.
Humans evolved in Africa. Lucy was not found in Orange County CA. Some of our ancestors, for truly unknowable reasons, decided they preferred cold, dark, miserable places and so lost their color.
Second, for most people, it is hard to overcome the cognitive dissonance of enslaving a fellow human being. But for a lesser species, break out the whips, shackles and get that cotton picked, toted, ginned and loaded.
America's original sin, slavery, which we inherited from the British (like our Irish) required a body of rationalisations to hide a purely mercenary abuse of fellow human beings, ergo, they must less than human.
24
Yeah but the Irish thugs are still held to a higher standard in college admissions. Maybe the Irish thugs should riot.
1
If the Waco police dare to be honest... and I'm not holding my breath... we may learn that all of the nine dead were killed by police officers over-reacting to a minor parking dispute.
In reading the coverage, there were many police there in anticipation of an incident. Many motorcycle gang members were meeting...some were nervous and jumpy. Someone got upset about a parking issue which escalated and then someone fired a gun (maybe even the police were the first one to fire)...and then the police starting shooting at everyone.
Funny... sounds suspiciously like what like what happened in Iraq when the Blackwater contractors overreacted and killed 17 innocent bystanders.
Just saying....
In reading the coverage, there were many police there in anticipation of an incident. Many motorcycle gang members were meeting...some were nervous and jumpy. Someone got upset about a parking issue which escalated and then someone fired a gun (maybe even the police were the first one to fire)...and then the police starting shooting at everyone.
Funny... sounds suspiciously like what like what happened in Iraq when the Blackwater contractors overreacted and killed 17 innocent bystanders.
Just saying....
16
I suggest you stay as far away as possible from any and all produce. It's all the same, right!
Have you nothing else to talk about but race?
109
Because that problem's been solved?
15
Why, do you think the set of problems around it hss been solved?
4
If my son got stopped at gunpoint at Yale coming out the library because of his race I would be talking about race all the time as well...
5
Imagine the reaction if nine members of the Bloods And Crips were shot and killed by the police under similar circumstances in a restaurant parking lot in New York City. Heads would roll, police heads. By the way a number of the bikers involved were Hispanic. How about asking some hard questions of the police on this one instead of doing more victimization bleating.
61
What are you talking about? Are you saying the police shot and killed those none bikers? Evidence?
6
That's what he's saying, jeoffrey in Paris.
The evidence is coming...
He's right too. The media does not seem too interested in learning the details and insisting the evidence and investigation be transparent in this potential police shooting case.
Why? Because the victims were white and Hispanic? Too bad this issue is not uniting the country, against police brutality, overreaction and violent deaths, and instead the pundits like Blow insist on carving these issues up by race. Divided, groups fall.
The evidence is coming...
He's right too. The media does not seem too interested in learning the details and insisting the evidence and investigation be transparent in this potential police shooting case.
Why? Because the victims were white and Hispanic? Too bad this issue is not uniting the country, against police brutality, overreaction and violent deaths, and instead the pundits like Blow insist on carving these issues up by race. Divided, groups fall.
3
Hispanics are considered white (except by you, apparently).
2
Hm, let's see. Charles Blow demands of himself and other blacks that they love themselves wholly, even the thugs among them. That would mean seeing only the good, accepting no responsibility for bad behavior or poor performance, and attributing all faults in behavior and performance to white racism. Sounds very much like the program already in place. How's that working out?
139
How did that get to be the meaning of the verb "love"? Because I don't see him saying what you claim he's saying.
21
Blow demands that blacks “love ourselves wholly.” The word "wholly" can only mean that they must love everything about themselves. There is no room there for self criticism, hence also no room for accepting responsibility for failures in behavior or performance. No surprise, then, that Blow attributes black failures exclusively to “systems and structures of brutality” that “break us and blame us for the breaking.” That is, he attributes failures in behavior and performance ("the breaking") to malevolent external forces, not to anything internal to the people behaving and performing. This formulaic self-exculpation is simultaneously an accusation against the source of “brutality and subjugation." That is, the self-exculpation explicitly attributes failures of behavior and performance to white racism.
What don't you see?
What don't you see?
11
@Joe - Talk about putting words in people's mouths. If that is your definition of love, our country is in more trouble than we think.
To Mr. Blow, I say, in this opinion I am with you. Words or the lack thereof have connotations and denotations. They can be manipulated just as Magritte's (the father of advertising) images can manipulate on an unconscious level. It is the difference of white people, " finding food" during the dog days of Katrina, whilst black people doing the very same thing were "looting stores" for food. Whites find, Blacks loot. Yes, Black people need to love themselves, because we will die waiting to receive it from our fellow citizens.
To Mr. Blow, I say, in this opinion I am with you. Words or the lack thereof have connotations and denotations. They can be manipulated just as Magritte's (the father of advertising) images can manipulate on an unconscious level. It is the difference of white people, " finding food" during the dog days of Katrina, whilst black people doing the very same thing were "looting stores" for food. Whites find, Blacks loot. Yes, Black people need to love themselves, because we will die waiting to receive it from our fellow citizens.
6
In a country with a constitution and bill of rights, how to justify racial segregation and biased treatment? You have to believe in the innate inferiority of the subordinate group compared to the dominant group. And believe that the ideals America was founded on can only apply to the racial group that wields power, and can’t apply to the other.
Even after most reject our past entrenched racism, the different skin color of our racial groups perpetuates old biases. Our civil rights laws, once passed, lets us off the hook. That’s why US politics has always been hypocritical and schizophrenic. It’s built in.
Even after most reject our past entrenched racism, the different skin color of our racial groups perpetuates old biases. Our civil rights laws, once passed, lets us off the hook. That’s why US politics has always been hypocritical and schizophrenic. It’s built in.
7
Yes, there are plenty of 2 parent homes, where Dads have taught prejudice, meanness and violence. Well into the 20th century, didn’t most of the people that used to come out for public lynchings come from 2 parent homes, church goers, who were financially secure, and law abiding in every other way?
Were the killers of blacks in the civil rights era from ‘broken homes’? Or just broken justice systems?
American romantic visions of rugged individualism are a handy excuse for almost anything. This is just what the NRA uses to promote guns for all and why we are all less safe than nations with strong gun laws.
What helps defeat hate may be love, but laws give it a chance. Laws consistent for all groups to mold attitudes by positive example. The example of fair laws can trickle down from authorities to the larger public and especially to police. Do they treat all according to the Bill of Rights, or do they make exceptions, based on prejudice, then justified by phony excuses?
Were the killers of blacks in the civil rights era from ‘broken homes’? Or just broken justice systems?
American romantic visions of rugged individualism are a handy excuse for almost anything. This is just what the NRA uses to promote guns for all and why we are all less safe than nations with strong gun laws.
What helps defeat hate may be love, but laws give it a chance. Laws consistent for all groups to mold attitudes by positive example. The example of fair laws can trickle down from authorities to the larger public and especially to police. Do they treat all according to the Bill of Rights, or do they make exceptions, based on prejudice, then justified by phony excuses?
39
Don't hate yourself, Charles.
Don't let anyone convince you or yours that you are anything less than an equal in God's eyes, who created all men equal.
When you write things like the below paragraph, I worry for you. Truthfully, you CAN distinguish between young men in certain schools, neighborhoods turning to crime too soon, and the wrong decisions by grown men, grown enough to leave the house, form their own bands, out of school, not localized to a particular neighborhood. Those men don't need Daddies. That's not the root cause of what's gone wrong in their adult lives and likely won't be corrective.
Academic studies, schools seeking role models, businesses, courts, and social workers say the young men displaying poor social choices and bad associations DO need guidance at home to learn basic collective social norms outside their environment. They need to UNlearn the poor rituals that discount education, promote gun violence and the degradation of women.
If you can't see the difference between men and boys, and all you see is race, then I pity you, Mr. Blow. Sure, men raised without other men permanently in the home can turn out ok. But some get lucky: with lots of big brothers teaching them the ropes. They find intimacy and get their needs met.
White people don't fear bikers in Texas. We do fear children in the neighborhoods we drive through, and in the school districts we support, because their losses hit closer to home.
Don't let anyone convince you or yours that you are anything less than an equal in God's eyes, who created all men equal.
When you write things like the below paragraph, I worry for you. Truthfully, you CAN distinguish between young men in certain schools, neighborhoods turning to crime too soon, and the wrong decisions by grown men, grown enough to leave the house, form their own bands, out of school, not localized to a particular neighborhood. Those men don't need Daddies. That's not the root cause of what's gone wrong in their adult lives and likely won't be corrective.
Academic studies, schools seeking role models, businesses, courts, and social workers say the young men displaying poor social choices and bad associations DO need guidance at home to learn basic collective social norms outside their environment. They need to UNlearn the poor rituals that discount education, promote gun violence and the degradation of women.
If you can't see the difference between men and boys, and all you see is race, then I pity you, Mr. Blow. Sure, men raised without other men permanently in the home can turn out ok. But some get lucky: with lots of big brothers teaching them the ropes. They find intimacy and get their needs met.
White people don't fear bikers in Texas. We do fear children in the neighborhoods we drive through, and in the school districts we support, because their losses hit closer to home.
21
Why don't you fear bikers? The particular bikers discussed in this article are responsible for the deaths of 9 people and the injuries of 18 more. If I saw a group of these bikers on the street, I would certainly go immediately in the other direction!
19
I don't fear the bikers because they dress distinctly and deliberately stand out in the community with their dress and rituals. You can easily identify them. You can hear them coming, with the loud pipes on their bikes and protect yourself. They are no threat to me. I am not choosing to participate in that subculture, and odds are, I will not be affected as an innocent bystander.
The dozens of people being killed in the streets, playgrounds, porch stoops and inside their homes though? That hits too close to home for me. Something tells me, "Love Em Hard" and "Call Bikers Thugs Too!" is not the solution to stopping the killings of everyday people in Chicago. Don't look away now, because 30 more people were shot (albeit not killed) in Chicago last weekend. Sadly, that doesn't even make national news anymore. Biker riot massacres are more rarities, in comparison.
The dozens of people being killed in the streets, playgrounds, porch stoops and inside their homes though? That hits too close to home for me. Something tells me, "Love Em Hard" and "Call Bikers Thugs Too!" is not the solution to stopping the killings of everyday people in Chicago. Don't look away now, because 30 more people were shot (albeit not killed) in Chicago last weekend. Sadly, that doesn't even make national news anymore. Biker riot massacres are more rarities, in comparison.
8
Bikers are responsible for the deaths, or police are responsible, Meredith? You're missing the real story here, I fear.
2
Dear Charles,
You are neither blind, wrong, or what some love to call you: a race-baiter. You are spot-on today as you are twice a week, week in, week out. The fact that the crimes that unfolded in Waco were characterized differently than one would have expected should be attributed to racism. The media is no more immune or inured to it than the public it serves. Those who work in media, your colleagues, are the product of the same education system we all are.
In many ways, we are all victims of an education system that has been in decline for and is subject to reforms designed to curtail ieven more, any curriculum that might be helpful in stemming the reemergence of full-on racism. It isn't only states in the Deep South where historical curriculum is censored when, nationwide, it has always been lacking.
Historically, our nation has produced generation after generation of people who don't know each other, and don't really know themselves. That state of affairs served the aims of those who would use fear and ignorance to keep us divided. For a time, we saw improvement in our education system and it was on the way to fulfilling its promise as the great equalizer. Slowly, unseen forces began to unravel what was achieved, at the cost of so much suffering.
What this nation now urgently needs is unity among all those who are relatively conscious. MLK knew it and was working to achieve it. That work needs to be resumed by those who have the national reach with which to do it.
You are neither blind, wrong, or what some love to call you: a race-baiter. You are spot-on today as you are twice a week, week in, week out. The fact that the crimes that unfolded in Waco were characterized differently than one would have expected should be attributed to racism. The media is no more immune or inured to it than the public it serves. Those who work in media, your colleagues, are the product of the same education system we all are.
In many ways, we are all victims of an education system that has been in decline for and is subject to reforms designed to curtail ieven more, any curriculum that might be helpful in stemming the reemergence of full-on racism. It isn't only states in the Deep South where historical curriculum is censored when, nationwide, it has always been lacking.
Historically, our nation has produced generation after generation of people who don't know each other, and don't really know themselves. That state of affairs served the aims of those who would use fear and ignorance to keep us divided. For a time, we saw improvement in our education system and it was on the way to fulfilling its promise as the great equalizer. Slowly, unseen forces began to unravel what was achieved, at the cost of so much suffering.
What this nation now urgently needs is unity among all those who are relatively conscious. MLK knew it and was working to achieve it. That work needs to be resumed by those who have the national reach with which to do it.
351
As I watched Charles take part in two CNN debates, I was transported back to February and a PBS documentary, American Denial, that explores the roots of subconscious bias. The last couple of weeks has been filled with debates and some rather good articles about the usage of the slur, thug. We are all affected by racism, whether we know it or not, but there is more at play than what we don't know. There is also what we do, consciously, to ensure that we stay as we are:
"Make no mistake, whatever else proponents of white supremacy have succeeded in achieving over the centuries in spite of whatever enlightenment we might have achieved since emancipation and the Civil Rights Movement, today, we are left with millions of smug, ignorant people whose function, spanning across all facets of American society, is to perpetuate supremacy, whether they are aware of it or not. While bias isn't necessarily conscious, it is real and it does real harm. Supremacy kills, especially of late."
Harry Houck: an exemplar of supremacist indoctrination
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/harry-houck-an-exemplar-of-supremacist-...
American Denial
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/pbs-documentary-american-denial-underst...
"Make no mistake, whatever else proponents of white supremacy have succeeded in achieving over the centuries in spite of whatever enlightenment we might have achieved since emancipation and the Civil Rights Movement, today, we are left with millions of smug, ignorant people whose function, spanning across all facets of American society, is to perpetuate supremacy, whether they are aware of it or not. While bias isn't necessarily conscious, it is real and it does real harm. Supremacy kills, especially of late."
Harry Houck: an exemplar of supremacist indoctrination
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/harry-houck-an-exemplar-of-supremacist-...
American Denial
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/pbs-documentary-american-denial-underst...
11
All this racism, and the reign of terror of police brutality, institutional racism everywhere is having a measurable effect on children:
The New York Times published this article:
Rise in Suicide by Black Children Surprises Researchers
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/health/suicide-rate-for-black-children...
Another video, showing how even children are victimized by police, gave us a rare glimpse into how community involvement, mothers watching out for other mothers' children can make a tremendous difference:
Undercover cop chases and grabs teen in Manhattan
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/undercover-cop-chases-and-grabs-teen-in...
Alesia Thomas' case is now in court. She died in the custody of the LAPD
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/alesiathomas-died-at-the-hands-of-the-l...
The New York Times published this article:
Rise in Suicide by Black Children Surprises Researchers
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/health/suicide-rate-for-black-children...
Another video, showing how even children are victimized by police, gave us a rare glimpse into how community involvement, mothers watching out for other mothers' children can make a tremendous difference:
Undercover cop chases and grabs teen in Manhattan
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/undercover-cop-chases-and-grabs-teen-in...
Alesia Thomas' case is now in court. She died in the custody of the LAPD
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/05/alesiathomas-died-at-the-hands-of-the-l...
2
"the crimes that unfolded in Waco were characterized differently than one would have expected..." and this must be due to racism.
I have seen it described as a brawl, shoot out or melee involving several motorcycle clubs or gangs, which is precisely what it was. How should we characterize those events in a politically correct way? Should it not be mentioned that they were bikers?
I have seen it described as a brawl, shoot out or melee involving several motorcycle clubs or gangs, which is precisely what it was. How should we characterize those events in a politically correct way? Should it not be mentioned that they were bikers?
14
1. Thug was the name given by the British in India in the 19th century to a member of a band of thieves and murderers. A thug would pretend to be friendly with a traveler and offer to share a journey. Then as soon as it was safe to do so, the thug would strangle and rob his companion.
2. As Tupac defined it, a thug is someone who is going through struggles, has gone through struggles, and continues to live day by day with nothing for them. That person is a thug. and the life they are living is the thug life. A thug is NOT a gangster. Look up gangster and gangsta.
Leaders apologizing for using the label "thug," while people in the streets were begging to stop violence and to peacefully protest about injustice in the police dept. Breaking justice while asking for justice is not a good message. Their actions hurt a community and the cause. It was hard to watch looting, assault on police and local shop owners. What word would you use?
Regarding fatherless homes. When you ask the world to evaluate why something is broken, then ask for others to pay for a solution, invitation to suggestions will happen and you may not like all their answers. You have the world's attention, for a time, what will be the issue you want discussed? Stop the semantics and focus on solutions.