the nra has armed the american citizens and bush has armed the police. any surprise this country is rapidly becoming an armed camp?
"when in the first act you hang a gun on the wall by the second act you must use it."
chekhov
"when in the first act you hang a gun on the wall by the second act you must use it."
chekhov
The mistrust and resentment towards police are inherent problems of law enforcement. Very few people who break laws do not have some reason in their minds justifying what they are doing which they feel police should consider before enforcing the laws which they are breaking. The mistrust is a factor which can be addressed with good communications between police and the people where they work when done separately from the law enforcement activities but it takes a lot of effort. The way citizens tend to respond to confrontations with police tends to lead police to mistrust them and to begin to look only to other law enforcement officers as being trustworthy. The factor of racism is not rooted in anything inherent in law enforcement, it is a social problem which can only be addressed by society. The poverty which increases the factors which lead to criminal behavior is the direct result of conscious decisions to exclude racial minorities and to prevent them from prospering over many decades. The attitudes by so many that the conditions of poverty are the result of the failure of human beings to achieve better rather than the dynamics and results of social attitudes.
The concern about the effects of having military equipment to use is silly. The unstated assumption is that police officers are all or mostly immature people who have no sense of moral responsibility but instead are driven by the same mentality as immature adolescent males.
The concern about the effects of having military equipment to use is silly. The unstated assumption is that police officers are all or mostly immature people who have no sense of moral responsibility but instead are driven by the same mentality as immature adolescent males.
If we continue to make the classic assumption that someone is not on someone's side, we will fail to make the necessary progress toward resolving the tensions between police and the African-American community. Policies and procedures in this country are quickly being revamped in light of their times. We are, in fact, addressing issues as quickly as possible without creating unnecessary federal litigation or investigations that will unduly burden taxpayers now and in the future.
That is right, let us disarm the police in the battles between would-be looters and the police, who are the only defense for law-abiding citizens.
1
Let's just take a deep breath Mr Blumenthal. No one is talking about "disarming the police", but did you take a look at this photo from Ferguson?! And I love Sheriff Clarke from WI saying the president just doesn't get it because of his middle class up-bringing, as though he didn't spend several years as a community organizer in the ghettos of Chicago (which I remember was roundly ridiculed in the '08 campaign). And how about this closing quote from the president of the national Police Union: “Putting those on restricted lists and making it so you’re going to have to justify having that equipment gives the connotation that the police shouldn’t have that protection,” he said. “The fact is, a riot can happen in any city in America.” Yeah as they happened pre-9/11, and riots happen here in Italy too, and in lots of other western democracies, and police wear - wait for it . . . RIOT GEAR! We need to have some re-balancing here, and the police, like any other authority, need to accept criticsm and stop the pouting. 99% are great, but there is a tiny minority walking around armed with a uniform, badge and the authority of the state behind them. they need to go. and shame on the union heads (I am a pro-union liberal democrat) for finding any and all behavior by one of their own acceptable and inviolate. disgraceful!
We all want a life of peace and security, but when those tasked with protecting that security become the very thing we fear, our supposedly free and secure society becomes one big Ferguson, MO.
In recent decades, the repeating wars in Iraq transferred to our own streets. 'we' had to bring that war and its weapons of mass control and destruction, to our own homeland, and put it to use spying and trespassing without compunction upon our own citizens... how ironic, they called it "Homeland Security."
Instead of beating those swords into plowshares, they shared them with local authorities, who use them aggressively to enforce jaywalking and pot laws in American villages and cities... too often mortally. Our drug laws profanely combined with post-bellum, authoritarian/racist obsession, turned common citizens into enemy combatants.
President Obama is moving to stem the flow of that Bush-war military surplus to local law enforcement, in hopes of stemming the tide of destruction dividing The People from The Police... they are one and the same and should never be divided.
President Obama is empowering The People.
Whether you realize it or not, that includes you, too.
In recent decades, the repeating wars in Iraq transferred to our own streets. 'we' had to bring that war and its weapons of mass control and destruction, to our own homeland, and put it to use spying and trespassing without compunction upon our own citizens... how ironic, they called it "Homeland Security."
Instead of beating those swords into plowshares, they shared them with local authorities, who use them aggressively to enforce jaywalking and pot laws in American villages and cities... too often mortally. Our drug laws profanely combined with post-bellum, authoritarian/racist obsession, turned common citizens into enemy combatants.
President Obama is moving to stem the flow of that Bush-war military surplus to local law enforcement, in hopes of stemming the tide of destruction dividing The People from The Police... they are one and the same and should never be divided.
President Obama is empowering The People.
Whether you realize it or not, that includes you, too.
1
It has been obvious for quite some time that Obama considers law enforcement and the military as necessary evils. No wonder both have little to no confidence in him.
I applaud the President on this decision. Now, let's see if can actually be put into practice. This is part of a whole host of reforms (including body cameras, independent reviews, and better training) in order to improve police-community relations. The police forces may sometimes need to be reminded that they are there to protect and serve the community, and there is a very special skill set needed to know how to balance their duty to capture the true bad guys, without alienating the rest of the community.
As for the police representative's comments in this article, one of the biggest problems that some members of the police force need to get over is the feeling that they can't be criticized. That somehow they are infallible gods who never make mistakes. That they have the toughest job in the world and that nobody understands them. That we must all support them 100% of the time. And anyone who makes reasonably balanced comments or calls for reform in police-community relations is somehow "attacking" them and is instantly branded the enemy. It's a juvenile mindset, and something that will have to be overcome if any real progress is to be made.
As for the police representative's comments in this article, one of the biggest problems that some members of the police force need to get over is the feeling that they can't be criticized. That somehow they are infallible gods who never make mistakes. That they have the toughest job in the world and that nobody understands them. That we must all support them 100% of the time. And anyone who makes reasonably balanced comments or calls for reform in police-community relations is somehow "attacking" them and is instantly branded the enemy. It's a juvenile mindset, and something that will have to be overcome if any real progress is to be made.
1
Once again: Not a single mention of the End Racial Profiling Act. What could have been the Obama Administration's crowning achievement on civil rights has become a major disaster because of a massive broken (written) promise.
Let the history books note that the U.S. Senator from Illinois who was for the End Racial Profiling Act became the U.S President (also from Illinois) who was against it. It is his legacy of failure on civil rights and he owns it.
Let the history books note that the U.S. Senator from Illinois who was for the End Racial Profiling Act became the U.S President (also from Illinois) who was against it. It is his legacy of failure on civil rights and he owns it.
The problem is not that the police HAVE the equipment--it's where and when they deploy it. Such massive shows of military force intimidate peaceful protesters. We are not suicide bombers, snipers, terrorists or rebel militias.
Under the rubric "law and order" African Amercan communities have been treated like enemy territory. No democracy treats its citizens like enemies.
It's time the police stopped acting like misunderstood children whose feelings have been hurt and realized that they have an interest and a responsibility in fixing this. Or do they prefer to act like just another gang and operate under their own rules?
Under the rubric "law and order" African Amercan communities have been treated like enemy territory. No democracy treats its citizens like enemies.
It's time the police stopped acting like misunderstood children whose feelings have been hurt and realized that they have an interest and a responsibility in fixing this. Or do they prefer to act like just another gang and operate under their own rules?
1
Under the rubric "law and order" African Amercan communities have been treated like enemy territory.
------------------------
When rioters have turned Ferguson and Baltimore into war zones, what would you have them do exactly?
------------------------
When rioters have turned Ferguson and Baltimore into war zones, what would you have them do exactly?
1
Baltimore turned into a riot on day one. The looters and arsonists took over entire blocks. The Baltimore mayor told the police to essentially stand down.
The United States foundation is crumbling. When do you suppose Obama will finally just look in the mirror and say Mia Culpa?
It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. There is no inherent problem with having an RV on a police force, if that police department honestly feels it could be in a situation that requires its use. The problem comes with mis-deploying it and creating the aura of a police state - say for a simple house raid to look for drugs or stolen property.
1
Police forget that they are part of the community and public servants. They should be looked at as good guys, saviors and helpers, by the people of our cities and towns. Similar to how we view our military. But they are not. If there is blame, its on the police organizations and some members who behave as if they are "special" , have a special status which they do not. No more than teachers, fireman and other public servants who are paid by and are part of the community. Reagan fired the traffic controller years ago for their collective action which was not in the public interest. I suggest that the police leadership and organizations who don't accept the notion that they serve the community seek alternative employment in the private sector
3
As my neighbor keeps saying. "In England the police have no weapons, vests or shields. they extend a friendly hand and the criminal surrenders." that is what we need here. I am certain that being cheerful and friendly will fix any criminal situation. Lets hold out our hands to the criminals and be nice. Now they must put me back into my padded cell.
2
Some cities and municipalities have gladly applied for and received equipment, including APCs through the Pentagon Surplus Program. It does not take much to acquire such equipment. There are some cities, counties, areas, municipalities where this equipment can have a feasible and viable presence. Look at Waco. 192 people arrested could have as well been 192 people dead. There are also many useful peacetime emergency uses for various pieces of this equipment. Local Police could use the help of APC's in evacuating Coastal areas either before, during or after expected earthquakes and tsunamis. We have already been told the statistics of how many people will die up here. At three o'clock in the morning in a catastrophe no family SUV is going to be able to get anyone to higher ground, to safety, etc. Folks can at least try to get to pre-arranged collection points to be picked up by local APCs which can us to higher ground inland along the Coast Range. Even with "Go-Bags" at the ready with only 20 minutes notice in bad conditions no average family of four with a dog on a lease, a cat in a travel
box is going to get very far just on foot and with the SUV already perhaps crushed in the garage or roads flooded or already in upheaval. No way in Hell are most of the Senior Citizens going to be able to save themselves. We have been told that the First Responders will be busy saving their own families. But the Police and perhaps nearby National Guard can help a few of us.
box is going to get very far just on foot and with the SUV already perhaps crushed in the garage or roads flooded or already in upheaval. No way in Hell are most of the Senior Citizens going to be able to save themselves. We have been told that the First Responders will be busy saving their own families. But the Police and perhaps nearby National Guard can help a few of us.
One of the only good decisions I think Obama has made so far.
Police are not meant to act like military and thus are not trained like military. And there's no need for them to have tanks and anything beyond good riot gear and safety equipment.
I talk more about this here: https://youtu.be/SCaEDI6aqbA
It's been a long time coming.
Police are not meant to act like military and thus are not trained like military. And there's no need for them to have tanks and anything beyond good riot gear and safety equipment.
I talk more about this here: https://youtu.be/SCaEDI6aqbA
It's been a long time coming.
They don't have tanks
Thank you President Obama! The US has been looking like a military state not caring about justice, the truth, or even the law. It's been terrifying. I can't even imagine what African-Americans are going through, and have been going through for too long.
2
It is interesting that this came out the day after the Waco incident - I wonder how many of the Police there had 'military style equipment' and if they would have fared better under the new rules.
The photos from Waco, Texas prove my point. The police in Waco did not use military-style equipment. They had a very dangerous situation on their hands and handled it without military maneuvers.
Funny coming from a government that routinely has violated Posse Comitatus, federal law since the 1870s, routinely.
1
Too bad we have a President who thinks the police are the bad guys.
6
One of the biggest things that some members of the police force need to get over is the feeling that they can't be criticized. That somehow they are infallible gods who never make mistakes. That they have the toughest job in the world and that nobody understands them. And anyone who makes reasonably balanced comments or calls for reform in police-community relations is somehow "attacking" them and is instantly branded the enemy or "thinks they are the bad guys." It's a juvenile mindset, and something that will have to be overcome if any real progress is to be made.
Another knee jerk reaction, take by a clearly anti-police administration
7
Knee jerk?
Just read up on the history of countries in the past 70 years who tried to control their citiZens with amitary style police force ex Tanks, machine guns et c and name one who survived
Many U.S. Citizens need a quick history course and a passport to see how the few banana republicans operate . This is a free country
Just read up on the history of countries in the past 70 years who tried to control their citiZens with amitary style police force ex Tanks, machine guns et c and name one who survived
Many U.S. Citizens need a quick history course and a passport to see how the few banana republicans operate . This is a free country
2
South Korea, North Korea, China, Cuba...there is a large group of countries who have used military style equipment on their citizens and survived quite well, thank you.
I'm not sure exactly who needs the quick history course here.
I'm not sure exactly who needs the quick history course here.
4
mikecody -- China, Cuba and North Korea -- are those really countries you wish the US to emulate when it comes to civil liberties?
3
I applaud President Obama for this move, although I believe he could have gone farther. PDs should be required to have non-militiary crowd and riot control equipment only.
As a tax payer and a citizen, I do not want my tax dollars allocated for national defense against enemies abroad come back at me or my community in the form of firearms aimed at us.
As a tax payer and a citizen, I do not want my tax dollars allocated for national defense against enemies abroad come back at me or my community in the form of firearms aimed at us.
1
The problem with this move by the president, is that it's completely symbolic, and in no meaningful way will strip police forces with their ability to command and use military type tactics and weapons against ordinary citizens. Local police are too far gone down this road. We need a massive push back on a large scale to strip them of these powers. Until that day comes, nothing will change.
3
Going to ignore that Rand Paul called for this 6+ months ago after Ferguson? I didn't see any reporting about how Paul has been advocating for this and wrote an Op-ed in Time magazine specifically about this issue. Now its Obama's credit? What a joke. Since you missed the Senate hearing with Senator Paul apparently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ganGFBeuE8
I guess its because he is a Republican huh?
I guess its because he is a Republican huh?
4
No, it's because he's a Senator from a small state whose largest metropolitan area is Bowling Green (!) and who had not even declared he would run for President six months ago. Just because you follow his every move doesn't mean the media or the public do.
1
Jeff Wenzel Denver Pending Approval
I find the resistance and the hateful sounding tone expressed in some of the comments made here regarding this initiative very disheartening; it causes me to wonder ... why? Some sound like there is no intent to see or to acknowledge that this matter is such a serious and very complex problem in our society that can not and should not remain hidden or ignored anymore.
And it is so painful. Who can deny that ultimately this atrocity effects everyone, not just minorities and law enforcement, but all of us living in this country, regardless of our right/left orientation ... or whatever. I would like to understand what kind of a mentality - or vested interest(s) - would prompt efforts to invalidate, undermine, block and tear down such an initiative as this??
Given the powers that be I can't begin to imagine just how incredibly difficult it must be to address and successfully improve upon this issue but I think this is an an intelligent step towards it... its a crying shame it has been such a long time coming.
God almighty is it rare that I get to feel positively moved by, and thankful for, (and even proud!) of actions taken by our leadership.
The actions described in this report sound GREAT to me.
Thank you and please, please keep it coming Mr. Obama!
I find the resistance and the hateful sounding tone expressed in some of the comments made here regarding this initiative very disheartening; it causes me to wonder ... why? Some sound like there is no intent to see or to acknowledge that this matter is such a serious and very complex problem in our society that can not and should not remain hidden or ignored anymore.
And it is so painful. Who can deny that ultimately this atrocity effects everyone, not just minorities and law enforcement, but all of us living in this country, regardless of our right/left orientation ... or whatever. I would like to understand what kind of a mentality - or vested interest(s) - would prompt efforts to invalidate, undermine, block and tear down such an initiative as this??
Given the powers that be I can't begin to imagine just how incredibly difficult it must be to address and successfully improve upon this issue but I think this is an an intelligent step towards it... its a crying shame it has been such a long time coming.
God almighty is it rare that I get to feel positively moved by, and thankful for, (and even proud!) of actions taken by our leadership.
The actions described in this report sound GREAT to me.
Thank you and please, please keep it coming Mr. Obama!
3
I retired from the Army with 6 tours in combat. Never, and I mean never, did I ever see military forces (US or others) like the pictures of our cops here in the USA. And I had 3 tours with Task Force and SOF operators.
I don't live in a community that needs cops, nor will I, but I feel sorry for those who do.
I don't live in a community that needs cops, nor will I, but I feel sorry for those who do.
5
Yes, I can see it all now. If your town has a population of 5,000 or over 150 school age children then you can have a tank 12 drones and all the spy stuff to listen to every conversation in town. Below those numbers you only get half.
Militarized police are here to stay.
I have mixed feelings about this. First, I think the military look of police departments is a bad idea. So I agree with the move to take some "Intimidating" eqiptment away from local police departments. I would go further and disallow the color black to be the primary color of police cruisers. That "Tactical" color does not fit with my interpretation of what a local law enforcer should be using. They are supposed to be the good guys. White and blue. White and green. Something along those lines would be better.
On the other hand, I think this reaction does not do enough. It seems the focus is on changing the cops. Investigating the cops. Putting cops in jail, limiting their capabilities. The problem is more complex than that. A strong cultural shift needs to happen in this country. You know things are messed up when going after the cops is the solution and criminals are made into martyrs. We need stronger ideas and better leaders to get us headed into the right direction. Race is being used by politicians and the media to drive agendas. Real people are being hurt here. Communities are being destroyed. I don't know how to fix the problems in this country, but going after the cops doesn't solve the problem. I don't think it solves much actually. This is a huge problem that will require someone like D. Martin Luther King. Someone with real leadership and vision to solve. I don't know anyone alive with those qualities. Hopefully someone like that will emerge soon.
On the other hand, I think this reaction does not do enough. It seems the focus is on changing the cops. Investigating the cops. Putting cops in jail, limiting their capabilities. The problem is more complex than that. A strong cultural shift needs to happen in this country. You know things are messed up when going after the cops is the solution and criminals are made into martyrs. We need stronger ideas and better leaders to get us headed into the right direction. Race is being used by politicians and the media to drive agendas. Real people are being hurt here. Communities are being destroyed. I don't know how to fix the problems in this country, but going after the cops doesn't solve the problem. I don't think it solves much actually. This is a huge problem that will require someone like D. Martin Luther King. Someone with real leadership and vision to solve. I don't know anyone alive with those qualities. Hopefully someone like that will emerge soon.
What a shame. We still have an excess of nukes that needed a good home.
1
So Obama is using Camden as his model city. Well that would fit. It is one that has been run by Democrats for decades. Camden is a failure on every level.
4
I don't think it was wise to tie the hands of local police departments through blanket executive action like this. Is the federal government offering their services in situations where around 200 biker thugs converge on a biker bar, like the Twin Peaks in Waco, to kill anyone who interferes with their intended battle royale to the death? For the most part I would trust local cops, who know the area, to keep the peace better than the feds. And the federal government should be setting guidelines and enforcement for expected police behavior, not silly bans that make all the politically correct types feel warm and fuzzy through the president's decree of police inaction in certain situations while the rest of the world starts falling apart around them. Have fun waiting for backup in the next major event as this takes effect.
2
They should have used their grenade launchers?
It's interesting that this story appears on the afternoon update right below a story of a biker gang shoot out where this type of equipment might be sorely missed
1
Seems like it wasn't missed though, no?
1
The Waco incident happens once in every...well almost never. All the fatalities and virtuLky all the injuries were the bikers. There were 192 arrests. Despite the extremely rare incidence of this caliber, the police handled it well WITHOUT being militarized and NO LOSS OF OFFICERS.
You are wrong Sir.
You are wrong Sir.
3
Bikers know what happens when they don't take lawmen seriously in Texas. There is plenty of murder related space at The Walls, in Huntsville.
1
"...Camden, N.J. The city, racked by poverty and crime, has become a national model for better relations between the police and citizens after replacing its beleaguered police force with a county-run system that prioritizes community ties...."
I'm pretty sure I've read a very similar statement about Baltimore prior to the Baltimore riots. If I look hard, I bet I can find a link but... not my job.
I'm pretty sure I've read a very similar statement about Baltimore prior to the Baltimore riots. If I look hard, I bet I can find a link but... not my job.
1
The police have used the military equipment to protect officers in riot active shooter situations. There was no mention of this equipment being used improperly. Please come to Detroit and work as a cop for a few months and then tell me what you think.
6
I agree Paul. We seemed to be catering to the thugs that are destroying this country instead of protecting those who are trying to control the unrest. I'm tired of everything being blamed on race. Black, white or purple, a large majority of those participating in these riots do not truly care about the cause. They look for these opportunities to loot, steal and create violence.
So what do the Feds do, take protection away from those who live their lives within the rules of society and the law. Ridicules!
So what do the Feds do, take protection away from those who live their lives within the rules of society and the law. Ridicules!
4
While I agree 100% with this move by the President (although the restrictions did not go far enough, in my opinion), I would much prefer the President addressing why there is no federal requirement for local police agencies to report officer-involved shootings, even when death is involved. Since the majority of excessive force/officer-involved shootings are investigated either internally within the department, or by the local District Attorney, who has a close working relationship with the department, there are no "official" numbers. How is it they find a 10 year old cow with mad cow disease and track its history back to its birth in Canada, but they can't track how many officer-involved shootings?
1
Some great comments, and reasoning. Too may police departments do use the military tactics for riots and crowd dispersion, often unnecessary. They do not mine resistant vehicles or tracked carriers (these are military use items). personally, would not want to enter some of these areas, or attempt to make an arrest of an person known to be armed without wearing the combat gear many police have. Proper use of the equipment is one of the major issues that needs to be examined and taught. We need to straighten up our streets, get rid of these gangs (many better armed than the police), straighten up our school systems and reduce the drop out rate to 0. The economic and social status system in this country needs to be corrected and improved, then maybe the need for all this firepower will be eliminated.
Putting a strangle hold on state's abilities to react within their judgment and need in situations of looting, burning, and chaotic unrest is not good policy and seems to be biased Presidential interference.
3
PS: Could be sending message that he wants it easier for the disgruntled masses to attack the police and leave our citizens and property defenseless.
1
Law Enforcement Officers are supposed to be community level and community oriented 'peace' officers. They are not supposed to be a 'military' organization.
To those LEO's who say they 'need' these types of equipment. If you have rioting or civil un-rest bad enough you would need a tank or other military grade equipment, that is when you should be calling in the state National Guard, that is what they are for--not local police officers.
The POTUS is doing the right thing here, but I do agree we have a lot of work cut out for us at a national level as we work to move policing to a more community oriented endeavor, and I understand this is an even greater challenge in more poverty striken and prone areas than in more affluent areas.
To those LEO's who say they 'need' these types of equipment. If you have rioting or civil un-rest bad enough you would need a tank or other military grade equipment, that is when you should be calling in the state National Guard, that is what they are for--not local police officers.
The POTUS is doing the right thing here, but I do agree we have a lot of work cut out for us at a national level as we work to move policing to a more community oriented endeavor, and I understand this is an even greater challenge in more poverty striken and prone areas than in more affluent areas.
2
Seems to me like you're trying to tell the Police HOW to do their job....
When you raid a drug house, you use military style tactics among other. You don't walk up to the door and offer the suspect a cup of coffee.
If someone breaks into your house at night, are you going to make 'peace' with them?
When you raid a drug house, you use military style tactics among other. You don't walk up to the door and offer the suspect a cup of coffee.
If someone breaks into your house at night, are you going to make 'peace' with them?
5
Why is there so much unneeded military equipment? Is the Pentagon doing a poor job at budgeting?
8
So Obama restricts or prohibits local law enforcement from arming themselves against superior firepower, such as the federal government, perhaps? Paranoid? Perhaps, but Obama is taking an awful lot of hinky actions, all of which don't target the groups about which he is concerned. More and more he appears to be gearing up for some kind of martial law. This man is truly frightening in his arrogance.
3
Paranoid? Positively.
The president isn't prohibiting your local police force from obtaining anything. He just doesn't think the federal government should provide all those tanks you think you need to defend yourselves from him.
The president isn't prohibiting your local police force from obtaining anything. He just doesn't think the federal government should provide all those tanks you think you need to defend yourselves from him.
Hopefully the fed will stop providing military style armaments to small police forces for free. the quite small rather upscale suburb I live in got a free tank. That way if a distraught person barricades in his house, rather than waiting him out, they can just knock the front of the house off, run in with swat type equipment and escort him out. too bad for the family who might just have wanted to live in the house.
And how much stuff did the Fed purchase with our tax money if they can arm every police force in the country?
And how much stuff did the Fed purchase with our tax money if they can arm every police force in the country?
1
It's about time someone researched this and came out with excellent recommendations from the WH task force. I know with 911 and Boston there have now been terrorist attacks on our soil and this along with Bush and Cheney's crew (Pro NRA) our public SERVANTS have morphed into modern soldiers with little respect for the citizens, rules and common sense. Who really needs armored tanks and Grenade launchers to do their jobs in this domestic policing role anyway? I realize it's a crazy world we live in and bad things by bad people will happen at some point. But 95% of the time the police need try to meld with their citizens better, get diversity and sensitivity training, and much, much less use of lethal force. I am positive that being a police officer is a risky and scary career and most put their lives on the line everyday. But it seems that bringing a rocket launcher to a knife fight is overkill, very expensive, and most of all, is a sign that big brother has run amuck and needs reform and reality check.
2
Sounds good on paper but the fact remains that criminals, especially drug gangs, still have access to high power weapons. Granted that tracked armored vehicles are beyond the norm, but the highest caliber weapons have always been available to sportsmen, hunters, gun collectors, and yes, even gun-nuts. We recall a number of years ago, when criminals armed with Ruger 5.56/.223 caliber semi-automatic rifles (sometimes called mini-14s or ranch rifles) outgunned and killed several law enforcements agents who had only basic pistols. On the other hand, two heavily armed terrorists in Texas last week, both armed with AR 15 type rifles, were shot dead in moments by a well trained police officer with only a .40 caliber Glock or Sig Sauer handgun. That too is very deadly. Also, we ask our local law enforcement officers to protect us against the threat of well armed terrorists who can easily obtain high-power weapons legally and illegally. If our transportation centers or nuclear power plants are under attack how can local police respond? With what? We know all too well what the terrorists are capable of doing. I'd rather see local police officers with automatic weapons on patrol just incase the radical terrorists make a move. Semi-auto rifles like the AR types, give police more firepower with greater accuracy. How many police will lose their lives if they can't match the firepower of the terrorists? Police shall be guardians, not warriors. Criminals are you listening? Open season.
3
I agree the US domestic needs to have ACCESS to these weapons FROM the military when needed for the less than 5% chance they will typically need to use this type of force. But let's not sit here and carry on (which we of course doing) a domestic military weapons race only because the NRA and GOP have continued to allow these automatic weapons to be sold to the public and to mentally unstable Americans. No one is taking away your shotgun, just military style guns that are made for war and capable of killing in massive numbers in short times. Yeah, our Country is struggling with the new world of terrorism, Constitutional rights and also protecting it's people throughout the world. Just keep in mind the NRA, most of the GOP and gun manufacturers created this entire situation on their own. I love guns, weapons and the evolution of military technology. But this is our peaceful homeland that all of us help to create. Let's take it down and notch on the guns and try and spend the tax payers cash more frugally. A domestic arms race will not improve anyone's life or long term protection (but for gun makers and NRA lobbyiests). However, in the event of a zombie apocalypse, or a Canadian invasion, break out the tanks!
2
Todd Birmingahm, Al - Todd, I agree. We really should take it down a notch. But, when necessary the local police should have the training and the equipment with which to respond. They don't need tracked vehicles. Or MWRAPS. Or .50 caliber machine guns. that is just nuts. But AR 15s, body armor, night vision (our local police in PA used them to capture and determine night time burglars) and good radio and communications equipment. As a last resort the National Guard and State Police should have heavy equipment and properly trained fast response units ready to roll. It's unlikely we'll have a Zombie Apocalypse, but the Islamist radicals are out there. And they will commit an atrocity if given the opportunity. Look at the Boston bombings. That's what we're dealing with. Nut cases. Who would harm us in a heart beat. Keep our police well armed and well trained. And keep something at home too.
1
Right wingers in general are thrilled by Military Display and it was only one of the outcomes of the Bush admin to see this grotesque distortion take hold on domestic law enforcement. You'd think we were living in a war zone with whatr these guys were wearing on the street. Its been awful
2
Obama has been in office 6+ years. Stop with the Bush nonsense.
3
At least now when the police are spraying bear-mace into the face of peaceful, disobedient citizens, they won't be doing it with an assault rifle strapped to their backs.
Or when the police are violently harassing non-violent citizens committing political crimes in breach of the commerce-clause, they won't be doing it with tanks.
Good times are here again, I guess.
Or when the police are violently harassing non-violent citizens committing political crimes in breach of the commerce-clause, they won't be doing it with tanks.
Good times are here again, I guess.
3
Who do you think called in the police to mace occupy-streeters? The residents which in this case means banks and their employees.
The occupy-streeters can camp out in East New York if they want. The bank and white collars won't care but this time it is going to the occupy-streeters calling the police for protection. It all depends on the neighborhood.
The occupy-streeters can camp out in East New York if they want. The bank and white collars won't care but this time it is going to the occupy-streeters calling the police for protection. It all depends on the neighborhood.
1
So out with the local police and in with the military, because that's where this is headed, or better yet the next step could be militarization of the police so they are completely controlled via the government. You think this is a good thing? Think again, think Judge Dredd scenarios.
1
Over the past 6-months to a year there has been a few high profile "police brutality"cases as "rights activists" like to call them: The chokehold case, the gentle giant case, the rough ride case. Over the same period, there has been a number of high profile police shooting cases as well. The two officers in patrol car, the one earlier this month in patrol car... Since the police force is such a small group of people while the "oppressed group" is so much larger, the police actually have much much higher chance of facing death and physical violence than any other group of people. They also cannot count on Al Sharpton, US attorney general or the Whitehouse to back them up.
Taking away police officer's gears and rights to protect themselves is to create a permanent underclass of people tasked to do the most dangerous jobs while not being appreciated by society.
Taking away police officer's gears and rights to protect themselves is to create a permanent underclass of people tasked to do the most dangerous jobs while not being appreciated by society.
2
And hopefully our military spending will be reduced with the military "gifting" police departments less – or will this equipment just be trashed, or worse, given to "freedom fighters" somewhere else in the world?
First you demoralize them, then demilitarize them. Next we'll disband them. When you have a home invasion, call the neighborhood thugs. Chances are they're already in your livingroom.
3
As is the case with any grouping of people, eventually their top priority becomes self preservation and the well being of their members. Police organizations are like any other in this regard. Getting "trouble makers" into "the system" for ease of identification later and building an impenetrable shield around officers to protect them sound like good ideas. And they are until those goals are in direct conflict with others. Our country struggles at getting things right sometimes but one thing we do better than anyone else in the world is hold these groups, all groups for that matter, accountable. It's not perfect but our system of checks and balances should be the envy of the world.
2
If we aren't going to give the Police military grade weapons, why in God's name do we give them to the civilians? This is not an argument to continue giving Police military grade weapons, it is an argument to get them out of the hands of the civilians. Military weapons were designed for one specific purpose....killing other people....not hunting for deer or the ol hobby at the range.
2
another victim of media hype speaks out
so please tell us what MILITARY weapons can people just go and buy?
none
for someone to buy military grade weapons they have to jump through so many hoops before the federal government will even allow them to think about it
and those hoops include background checks, licensing, permits, etc etc
so please tell us what MILITARY weapons can people just go and buy?
none
for someone to buy military grade weapons they have to jump through so many hoops before the federal government will even allow them to think about it
and those hoops include background checks, licensing, permits, etc etc
Oh my god people. Police are not buying tanks. Please google tanks and look at the pictures. Then google armored swat vehicle. Notice any differences? Here's a couple. The armored vehicles don't have cannons and/or an automatic turret gun that can take down buildings. The armored vehicles look like a common tank. An armored vehicle is simply used as a defensive form of transportation for swat, and also a fear tool when encountering their objective- whether that be a trap house, a dangerous wanted man, and etc. A tank is used for offense, like taking down a building blowing up cars, automatic cover fire, and etc. None of the military equipment cops buy are armed like you people think. None of the vehicles are armed, and non of the stuff like grenade launchers are armed with anything lethal like a freaking grenade. The ignorance here is kinda unreal, they are NOT BUYING TANKS
1
I don't understand the right wing/NRA types. They're terrified of a police state to the point of delusion yet support cops having the equipment that will make a police state more likely. It makes no sense.
10
I'm not a "right wing/NRA type" but please note that the average person rightfully regards the police as their friend. If you hamstring the police so much that they can't do their job without seeing to their own maximum protection, they'll lay back and leave us all to the tender mercies of the thugs. You know who will pay the price? The average person who is at risk from the criminal element including the most disadvantaged in the community, people who have been dealt a tough hand but are decent and law-abiding. Who will win? The sensibilities of the liberal-left press, most of whose columnists live in neighbourhoods where they never have to see what a hard job the police actually do.
1
I see a lot of people pointing out that departments get incredible funding for all this equipment. The money acquired from the tax payers going into militarization rather than protection. Indeed, I agree with you. Divert that money into better education, training, and more importantly, pay. Let these officers know that we appreciate the risks they take, inasmuch we want you to best trained, educated men on the streets, with the knowledge to know when to diffuse a situation, use force, and most importantly, when to use lethal force.
2
The militarization issue is all image and no substance, and it is misguided in that it removes equipment that while it is not needed frequently when it is the need is absolute. Police are required to act, act quickly, and to gain the upper hand before events become worse than they already happen to be. That means they act more aggressively than just about anyone observing them would think of doing. If that force were not needed, then police would not be needed, citizens and prosecutors could handle criminal law violations. The lack of communication which contributes to poor relations is not addressed by making the police look friendly and non-threatening It comes from frequent interactions separate from law enforcement which enable trust to develop and to affect the interactions. A lot of people who dislike police don't really care what they wear, they just hate police as much as any criminal who preys upon them, and what they wear is irrelevant.
Very infrequently police face criminals with the kinds of guns and equipment that are used on battlefields. These kinds of circumstances occur rarely but historically, the police cannot do anything because their regular equipment just does not enable them to respond effectively. So police and civilians remain under fire without any medical attention until the shooting is over. It is just those times that armored vehicles and high powered weapons become indispensable.
Very infrequently police face criminals with the kinds of guns and equipment that are used on battlefields. These kinds of circumstances occur rarely but historically, the police cannot do anything because their regular equipment just does not enable them to respond effectively. So police and civilians remain under fire without any medical attention until the shooting is over. It is just those times that armored vehicles and high powered weapons become indispensable.
1
There is no event in recent memory (over 40 years) where police in this country needed military equipment, not even Waco, Ruby Ridge. If police are given these weapons and equipment, they will use them, and do use them – for intimidation purposes, at minimum.
Police are supposed to be police – not SWAT teams – yet that is the trend, right down to the wraparound sunglasses. "Protect and Serve" – not "Intimidate and Threaten".
Police are supposed to be police – not SWAT teams – yet that is the trend, right down to the wraparound sunglasses. "Protect and Serve" – not "Intimidate and Threaten".
2
The North Hollywood bank robbery shoot out where two fully armored men with fully automatic assault rifles and a car trunk full of loaded clips held police hundreds of yards off until they ran out of the rifle rounds. Several police and civilians were left wounded and bleeding during this shoot out. Fortunately a commercial armored car was borrowed to retrieve some of the wounded while the fire fight continued. Ultimately the police were able to get close enough to engage the robbers with their service hand guns when they existed the open ground into an adjacent neighborhood of single family dwellings and after their rifles were out of ammo. These were characters sharing the same survivalist mentality of thousands of people across this country were an anti-government fervor which makes them arm themselves for war.
SWAT teams are rarely in the eyes of the public. How often do you hear about swat teams doing traffic stops, responding to domestic disputes, rapes, assaults and ect. SWAT teams are just a small part of the police.
The Waco police might could seriously use some military equipment right now.
1
The Waco police maintained order and arrested a couple hundred bad guys with no armored vehicles, body armor, assault weapons or any of the other military stuff being discussed here. So no, they don't need any military equipment right now. Nor do any other police departments.
4
actually they did have some of that
The problem isn't with the weapons but with their excessive application. The macho mind set of too many who make up the local law enforcement communities leads to the attitude which results in the repulsive behavior that's becoming all too familiar. A relatively small percentage of our police have become "legalized thugs"... just the wrong types to provide with these sorts of weapons.
Their use should be limited to militarily trained and controlled forces such as the National Guard and Reserves who should be called out by state and federal authorities WHEN AND ONLY WHEN the civil authorities have lost control and have been totally replaced.
Their use should be limited to militarily trained and controlled forces such as the National Guard and Reserves who should be called out by state and federal authorities WHEN AND ONLY WHEN the civil authorities have lost control and have been totally replaced.
4
The problem is the weapons: who wouldn't want to take the tank out for a spin in case those protesters get uppity.
Hillstreet Blues had an episode on this 30 years ago.
Hillstreet Blues had an episode on this 30 years ago.
The police will never know the people if they don't mingle with them and the same thing goes for the people of the community. When we had Beat Cops in New York everyone in the neighborhood knew who they were and they knew the merchants and a lot of the people. Nobody knows who the 25 year old talking through a Bull Horn, from inside a squad car is and they sure don't look at them as protectors. Don't the police realize that, no matter where they live, they are a big part of the community they work in?
4
What Obama should be doing is limit state and local governments' infringement on a citizen's constitutional rights. In New York City it is harder and more expensive to get a handgun license than to get a divorce or get a green card. The fascist mayors tried to tax everything he doesn't like into oblivion.
1
Given the biker gang chaos in Waco, this announcement seems very poorly timed.
1
Look at the photos in the media of the event in Waco. I don't see one police officer wearing body armor. I don't see any tanks or assault weapons. I don't see any military equipment at all. What I see are normal cops wearing normal uniforms and carrying normal cop big guns appropriate to the situation.
All the shrieking from the right about Waco and Mexican cartels and riots and so on is one big fat red herring.
All the shrieking from the right about Waco and Mexican cartels and riots and so on is one big fat red herring.
7
body armor WAS being worn
How about not hiring mid-east wars vets? They are bringing their sensitivity training back home .
4
The President's announcement is transparently cynical & apparently intended to pacify & fool bedwetters & the uninformed. The banned equipment includes tracked vehicles & .50 caliber ammunition which virtually no law enforcement is interested in. What is on offer is a politically expedient non-answer to a non-problem.
5
As noted by some here, gear is gear, not good, not bad, what is good or bad are the policies and people around the gear. Limited deployment to police well trained in their use should be a positive force for lawful conduct and enforcement. No police force should get the gear without having been adequately trained in its use and the leaders of the community having set and abide by thoughtful policies for their use. The problems take place when common sense, good training and competent leadership is absent, as we've seen lately.
I think this is ridiculous. The enemies of America and public order can reliably obtain rapid-fire weapons, military-grade armour and other military equipment but the police can't? We just saw this in Texas and only because the thin blue line was remarkably proficient with a revolver was a disaster averted. It was sheer luck, basically. The police are a quasi-military, they always were yet we expect them to protect us from modern military-style threats, including burgeoning rioting, arson and sniping with 19th century equipment which satisfies our romantic notion of what a policeman officer is.
1
@Gerald: I'm sorry to say that your reaction sounds hysterical. Calling rioting and arson"military threats" is off the wall. The fact that the police in Waco needed none of that equipment proves it is not necessary.
2
You may not call them military-style threats, but when a neighbourhood is burned down or mass rioting destroys shops and other property not to mention the risk to person, the effect - the consequences - are no different than if someone dropped a bomb from a military plane. Don't you see this? And therefore the means to defend against and stop such outrage should be no different than to repel an armed attack by an enemy nation. One is always trying to protect against the unknown, that one situation where an outrage occurs because the police were underpowered or did not project sufficient force.
1
No, I don't see it, and a riot is not a bomb, regardless of how much damage is done. If one bomb does the damage of one riot, then in war there will be hundreds of riot equivalents and no obvious end because bombing doesn't stop after one or a few. Riots are nothing like war.
In war the people you face (assuming you're the invader, as we have been recently) are the enemy and any one of them could be a danger. In your own country, I hope you don't behave the same way and you don't want the same equipment.
In war the people you face (assuming you're the invader, as we have been recently) are the enemy and any one of them could be a danger. In your own country, I hope you don't behave the same way and you don't want the same equipment.
I see this as a somewhat more complicated issue. Certainly it would seem on its surface that police departments should not be armed with military-style weaponry. However, what turns out to have been adequate weaponry can only be determined in retrospect. What was required was what was necessary to stop the threat as quickly as possible to save as many human lives as possible.
If you look at the situation in Paris, France Charlie Hebdo shooting we had two perpetrators armed with fully automatic weapons, full body armor, who were willing to die for their cause. It is difficult to stop someone such as that with a standard 9mm pistol. Heavier equipment is better. If someone is shooting up an elementary school, it is essential that they be stopped as quickly as possible. If having an armored tank would enable police to enter the school more quickly, then an armored tank would have been a good idea.
I am not encouraging the use of military-style weaponry during the course of standard policing rather I am only trying to point out that one never quite knows what type of equipment is necessary until after the even has occurred. Unless the heavier equipment is available, and unless people are trained in its use, it cannot be used even when it may have been helpful.
If you look at the situation in Paris, France Charlie Hebdo shooting we had two perpetrators armed with fully automatic weapons, full body armor, who were willing to die for their cause. It is difficult to stop someone such as that with a standard 9mm pistol. Heavier equipment is better. If someone is shooting up an elementary school, it is essential that they be stopped as quickly as possible. If having an armored tank would enable police to enter the school more quickly, then an armored tank would have been a good idea.
I am not encouraging the use of military-style weaponry during the course of standard policing rather I am only trying to point out that one never quite knows what type of equipment is necessary until after the even has occurred. Unless the heavier equipment is available, and unless people are trained in its use, it cannot be used even when it may have been helpful.
1
@Jim: "If you look at the situation in Paris, France Charlie Hebdo shooting" you see that no police equipement would have gotten them there in time to stop the killing. So raising that issue is irrelevant.
1
Sounds like someone has finally read Radley Balko's book, Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces, and is heeding the message.
4
A fighter jet program is costing us $1.5T. Yes, T.
The only goal is to pad the wallets of Boeing, Northrup, Halliburton, and cronies.
The only goal is to pad the wallets of Boeing, Northrup, Halliburton, and cronies.
5
And in case of Terrorist attsck, who are the First Responders to be ? The Police, ....not the National Guard, not the US Army ...
... And how are the Police going to take on Terrorists armed with AK 47's and who knows what other Military Arms ?...
Another "well thought out" Policy by the Obama Administration...
... And how are the Police going to take on Terrorists armed with AK 47's and who knows what other Military Arms ?...
Another "well thought out" Policy by the Obama Administration...
3
@Henry: In a word: Bull. Stop reading those fantasy war novels.
1
Thomas... "Fantasy" War Novels...?
I was at the World Trade Center on
9/11 and saw the 2nd Tower being hit by a passenger Plane... Really !!!
... The only "fantasies" being promulgated are those that believe that Terrorism is Fantasy ...
I was at the World Trade Center on
9/11 and saw the 2nd Tower being hit by a passenger Plane... Really !!!
... The only "fantasies" being promulgated are those that believe that Terrorism is Fantasy ...
Henry, your argument supports me entirely. If you are seriously proposing that militarized police could have stopped 9/11, you really are in fantasy land.
The limit comes too late for us not to realize that the government arms its police in order to exert an even greater control over the population, as it does with NSA. Why would they want that you say? Well, when everybody will finally realize that all the money goes to a few, that there is no more social mobility, that you can't open your mouth without being threatened to be shamed in public (Valerie Plame style), and that suddenly they feel the urge to take back what is rightfully theirs, well, then their pikes and forks will meet snipers and tanks - Good luck with your new revolution! The cost of changing things will go exponentially higher and it is safe to predict than nobody will ever want to step out of line...How's that for a democracy?
2
This is a welcomed and well thought out initiative for the reasons cities in the article. But good grief Bill, lighten up. As disappointing as this may be to many, there is no grand conspiracy.
1
CW: There was no "grand conspiracy" necessary to reach the onerous inequality we now face - just a small segment of society, independently utilizing their inordinate control over policy decisions for their own interest, interests that are contrary and detrimental to the well-being of the many.
Blacks knew that the moment the Obama's spoke about any justice or injustice involving blacks, the greater white society are going to go ballistic....
Even if it means the continuation of the most ignorant and absurd policy.
Who thinks military armament should be used on U.S. citizens?
White Americans are reeling over" jade 14" (or whatever), military maneuvers. How hypocritical the comments; but pretty typical.
Even if it means the continuation of the most ignorant and absurd policy.
Who thinks military armament should be used on U.S. citizens?
White Americans are reeling over" jade 14" (or whatever), military maneuvers. How hypocritical the comments; but pretty typical.
3
Years ago I visited Naples, Italy, where I saw a police tank rumbling down the street. "They need tanks to control crime?" I thought. The revulsion I felt at that sight was magnified by seeing such military weaponry on the streets of my own country. Those arguing against de-militarizing the police are the same people that welcome the explosion of guns in our society, open carry and stand your ground laws, and who are motivated by fear in their voting decisions.
3
I’m glad that this is finally being done. In many places the police force has gotten completely out of control. The cops act like an occupying army that can completely dominate the population that they oppress. They sometimes act like judge, jury and executioners on the spot with little or no consequences. Of course, these places are still free to buy their own military equipment but at least a little more thought will probably go into the purchases when the money is coming out of local tax revenue.
5
Sgt-at-Arms Kevin Vickers effectively defended the Canadian Parliament against a terrorist attack with a Smith and Wesson 5946 pistol. Training trumps equipment.
6
Aparently, President Obama believes he can solve any problem with an appearance before the arranged cameras at the arranged venue with hand picked citizens and flags as a backdrop to please the vast majority of Americans who live by the Television in the comfort of their isolated home insulated from the reality of America.
What we need is everyone to get out in the world, make friends, get exercise, and be happy instead of obsessed.
What we need is everyone to get out in the world, make friends, get exercise, and be happy instead of obsessed.
2
"Aparently, President Obama believes he can solve any problem with an appearance before the arranged cameras at the arranged venue with hand picked citizens and flags as a backdrop to please the vast majority of Americans who live by the Television in the comfort of their isolated home insulated from the reality of America."
You mean like George W. Bush and every single president in the television age before him? Get some perspective.
You mean like George W. Bush and every single president in the television age before him? Get some perspective.
1
Equipment, any equipment, is not in and of itself inherently bad. The question is, how is equipment used? Is it used prudently and wisely or is it used simply because it exists? It would be a shame if police somewhere don't have access to surplus military gear that might prove helpful some day in some rare situation because police elsewhere don't have enough common sense to leave the APC's and MRAP's in the garage when they go to serve a search warrant, or show off their "toys" during community parades. Regardless, the mind set of departments that make routine use of military gear that belongs on a battlefield, not city streets, isn't going to change. They will keep comporting themselves as if they are at war with the public that they are supposed to serve.
2
Sorry, the police showing up in a tank and armed with AK's...that's inherently bad.
1
People who call the US a police state have truly led sheltered lives. If you'd spent any time in a real police state, you would humbly keep your mouth shut. If you've experienced real fascism, you wouldn't throw the term around from the comfort of your armchair. Criticize where criticism is due, but keep some perspective. Our problems are luxury problems compared to people who live under the silencing horror and violence of police states.
2
I'm not sure this addresses the problem. Part of what needs to change is the behavior or people living in the hard-hit communities, although no one wants to admit it. Regarding the police's equipment and appearance, I lived in several European countries for many years, and I can tell you that the effectiveness of the police there is often laughable. They just can't catch people, and criminals escape from under their noses routinely.
What happened in Norway with Anders Breivik would never have happened here; the police would have the right equipment and would have responded much faster and more efficient. When something serious happens, like the Boston bombing, law enforcement in the US is highly efficient. The equipment and uniforms, etc, are not only about efficiency, but are also about a display of power, which is an important part of law enforcement, like it or not.
What happened in Norway with Anders Breivik would never have happened here; the police would have the right equipment and would have responded much faster and more efficient. When something serious happens, like the Boston bombing, law enforcement in the US is highly efficient. The equipment and uniforms, etc, are not only about efficiency, but are also about a display of power, which is an important part of law enforcement, like it or not.
3
How many Anders Breivik are there in Norway? As compared with the shooters here in the U.S.? 26 Kindergarten kids dead; multiple dead and wounded in a public theatre; kids shot in a public school cafeteria. I'll take one Anders Breivik, a lone wolf, as opposed to the multiple armed crazies here in the U.S. Boston was an exceptional event; many police came from nearby towns to join the search. We do not need tanks and other military power displays in our cities and towns; we are not the enemy in a foreign war. No doubt Darren Wilson was also efficient with all those shots he took to finally murder a kid, kneeling with his hands up.
Obama's record is a little spotty. He has failed against Putin. Failed with Assad. Not doing to good against ISIS. Maybe he will successfully impose his will on the local police departments (to add to his Libya victory). Frankly, I'm more worried about today's "Justice" Department and so called civil rights activists than I am with the police. Maybe this is why the Founding Fathers included in the Constitutional the citizens right to bear arms. Should I buy my first gun? Not yet.
1
Cleo, did you really want Obama to invade Russia? Only Crimea? I hope you think twice.
Think it’s a very good idea. Thank you, Mr. President. Cannot imagine any kid or young adult facing this on US streets unless a serious deadly crime was committed.
4
No it's not. This is a victory for the criminal. You can't imagine any kid or young adult facing this? Why don't you try imagining facing a kid or young adult with a assault rifle and all you have is a handgun. Why don't you imagine facing a kid or young adult coming at you, not knowing what their intentions are. You tell them to stop, put their hands up, but the don't. They still come at you. Seconds gave passed, what do you do? Wait? The time it took me to type this you would already be dead. Better yet, the time it took you think, you would be dead.
Obama sites protests in several cities, a Ferguson as the example, as part of the reason for the ban. Those weren't protests that was rioting, looting, arson and assault committed, not by police but by criminals. He's doing this in part of a broader effort to relieve tension between law enforcement and minority communities. The only ones relieved of any tension is the criminal.
Obama sites protests in several cities, a Ferguson as the example, as part of the reason for the ban. Those weren't protests that was rioting, looting, arson and assault committed, not by police but by criminals. He's doing this in part of a broader effort to relieve tension between law enforcement and minority communities. The only ones relieved of any tension is the criminal.
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Don't bring a pistol to an AK-47.
We are very lucky that cop in Texas was a super sharpshooter and took down 2 heavily armed terrorists wearing body armor with nothing but a handgun. Next time we might not be so lucky.
Is there any evidence that military equipment leads to excessive force?
We are very lucky that cop in Texas was a super sharpshooter and took down 2 heavily armed terrorists wearing body armor with nothing but a handgun. Next time we might not be so lucky.
Is there any evidence that military equipment leads to excessive force?
5
It's just a symbolic gesture on Obama's part like everything else he does. He is most passionate about his "legacy," however, which is not exactly the same as one's actions while in office. It's always about him, of course.
Ed, how is that different than every single other president?
How would you like to see armored tanks with mounted grenade launchers rolling down Madison Avenue? Or Broadway? Or Fifth Avenue? Perhaps you would like to see a whole armored SWAT team protecting the Frick against all those armed art lovers?
Once again, Barack Obama fails 1L (first year) Constitutional Law. The supposed "professor" (he wasn't, Obama was essentially a guest lecturer without tenure) infringes on the 10th Amendment rights of local police departments to do what they think is best to protect citizens and themselves.
A lot of these weapons and armor are for special tactical units who find themselves dealing with armor piercing bullets, automatic machine guns and nests of dangerous thugs in drug and gang addled precincts.
Making the police less safe, less protected will just mean more crime, more cops killed or seriously injured and fewer people willing to go into law enforcement at the local level because this President does not have their backs.
A lot of these weapons and armor are for special tactical units who find themselves dealing with armor piercing bullets, automatic machine guns and nests of dangerous thugs in drug and gang addled precincts.
Making the police less safe, less protected will just mean more crime, more cops killed or seriously injured and fewer people willing to go into law enforcement at the local level because this President does not have their backs.
7
As an Israeli who lived in NY for a few years, I think Americans are not fully aware to the degree in which your society fetishes Police power. Some times it feels like living in a Police State.This coming from the Middle East...SWAT teams chucking Flash Bangs into babies cribs... That's extreme even in West Bank occupation standards. Crazy...
9
Hey guys it is only an executive order. That means as soon as the President goes the order is no longer valid. Taking away these weapons will increase crimes throughout our country because now there is no form of protection period. What will a enforcement agents do if they have a mob of people that are armed to the teeth Approaching them. Will they use sticks and sprays to arrest them. I hope once the President is gone it gets dropped quick.
1
Taking away these weapons will increase the chances that the rest of us won't get caught in the crossfire between vigilante groups and the real police. We will not see a mob, armed to the teeth, anywhere. That is not going to happen. Take a deep breath and turn off Fox News.
"The 116-page report calls for law enforcement agencies to 'embrace a guardian — rather than a warrior — mind-set to build trust and legitimacy both within agencies and with the public.' ”
Ironically, it is a "guardian mind-set" that contributes to the violent extremes of police against black males. Many cops see themselves as guardians of "law and order". That would be the societal order that has evolved throughout American history, with whites at the top of the achierachies of power, authority, wealth, and privilege. In this concept, innocent blacks must be dominated and subdued, put in their place. Guilty blacks must be captured and controlled. All blacks must acquiesce to white superiority.
This is the attitude that motivates racial profiling, illegal search and seizure, false arrests, beatings, murder, and the immunity from punishment for even the most outrageous of such transgressions.
It is a laudable and long-overdue action by government authorities to begin the arduous task of changing the attitudes of the cops. The government needs to do more. Namely, the system of federal, state, and local laws that empower cops and grant them protected legal status has to change to rein in their power and privilege.
Ironically, it is a "guardian mind-set" that contributes to the violent extremes of police against black males. Many cops see themselves as guardians of "law and order". That would be the societal order that has evolved throughout American history, with whites at the top of the achierachies of power, authority, wealth, and privilege. In this concept, innocent blacks must be dominated and subdued, put in their place. Guilty blacks must be captured and controlled. All blacks must acquiesce to white superiority.
This is the attitude that motivates racial profiling, illegal search and seizure, false arrests, beatings, murder, and the immunity from punishment for even the most outrageous of such transgressions.
It is a laudable and long-overdue action by government authorities to begin the arduous task of changing the attitudes of the cops. The government needs to do more. Namely, the system of federal, state, and local laws that empower cops and grant them protected legal status has to change to rein in their power and privilege.
1
Name all riots back to WW2 and who was the main constituents of those riots. Now you know why police do what they have to do to preserve law-and-order.
1
This is what a police state looks like. In this country, particularly, we seem to have spawned a couple of generations of immature quasi-thugs, who are coddled in the pretense of public safety. Bottom line, these are (primarily) little boys, playing bang-bang and vroom-vroom. The fact that we have indulged this abuse of common sense is an embarrassment in the civilized world. A good portion of these people belong on the other side of the bars.
8
What these police officers are doing is a very hard job, the people they are up against play with very real bullets, how would you like to be on the receiving end of one every day of your life? Never knowing if you are coming home, what a spineless comment.
3
Unfortunately, I have severe PTSD. Consequently I have been arrested and 5150'd (taken to an asylum) nine times in addition to countless contacts with out my being taken into custody.
To a man and woman the Officers who dealt with me were professional and compassionate. Don't get me wrong, I've been angry with them before and I have resisted - and was physically injured. I got over it because the reality is this: Don't Resist and you won't get hurt. It's that easy. I stopped resisting, I stopped getting hurt.
Also, there is no where near the amount of police violence that Hysterical People are convinced is happening in this country.
Here is a short, clear motion graphic that presents the statistics of Police brutality. It's actually VERY RARE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114
To a man and woman the Officers who dealt with me were professional and compassionate. Don't get me wrong, I've been angry with them before and I have resisted - and was physically injured. I got over it because the reality is this: Don't Resist and you won't get hurt. It's that easy. I stopped resisting, I stopped getting hurt.
Also, there is no where near the amount of police violence that Hysterical People are convinced is happening in this country.
Here is a short, clear motion graphic that presents the statistics of Police brutality. It's actually VERY RARE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114
2
The police have guns for a reason. They don't need military equipment. If the job is deemed too dangerous, it's time for a different line of work. I for one cannot stand to see cops on tanks training automatic weapons on civilians. That happens in military dictatorships, not democracies.
2
One thing not mentioned in the article is what happens to this heavy-duty military-grade equipment once the small town cops get a hold of it? How well protected are they? I mean, is there any auditing done to see that the 10 AK-47s given to PleasantVille, MT are still there 3 years later? What about those mine-resistant vehicles? Are they ever used? And why? See this article:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140827/10480728341/law-enforcement-a...
Just a bit scary. Small towns (even larger cities) do not have the oversight capabilities to keep control of their weaponry.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140827/10480728341/law-enforcement-a...
Just a bit scary. Small towns (even larger cities) do not have the oversight capabilities to keep control of their weaponry.
2
Military-style equipment is appropriate in military-style events: Confronting looters and arsonists, armed gangs such as those that clashed in Waco just yesterday, and many others. What Obama has done is disarm the police and made them more vulnerable to the mob.
This will not lead to better relations between the police and the public. What it will do is embolden the thugs.
This will not lead to better relations between the police and the public. What it will do is embolden the thugs.
4
Waco could have called out the National Guard. And, that biker hang out could have been closed a long time ago. A gathering place for biker gangs? What could go wrong?
Mr. Obama? The last time i checked he is still the president of the United States. And I think its great that the police will be limited with the ammunition and guns that they use because they were acting like they were in Afghanistan or something and that needs to change. As long as people are peacefully protesting all of that unnecessary protocol of armored vehicles and gear isn't called for.
6
Police on one side. Zero intelligence serial felons on the other. Obama, of course, sides with the felons.
Christians must elect the next president. No exceptions. No excuses. Vote.
Christians must elect the next president. No exceptions. No excuses. Vote.
4
Wasn't GWB a Christian?
Thanks for the laugh. Christians always think they must be the ones to elect a president. Thank goodness the candidates who appeal the strongest to Christians can't win elections.
We obviously don't need police; we just need some Christian soldiers, armed and ready to shoot any citizen they deem to be law breakers. Maybe just dispense with all this trained police nonsense and go back to the old days with vigilantes and posses.
One guy got turned down by ISIS. They wouldn't take him because he's TOO crazy and TOO brutal for them, so he joined NYPD and he fits right in.
Obama has a good reason. Too many weapons supplied by the U.S. Government to Middle Eastern countries have been sold to ISIS, and most cops in the U.S.A. would gladly do the same.
Obama has a good reason. Too many weapons supplied by the U.S. Government to Middle Eastern countries have been sold to ISIS, and most cops in the U.S.A. would gladly do the same.
2
That's telling the police force to diversify will do. The best got skipped and the worst got picked to fill the quota.
1
Quite strikingly different images coming from a white biker gang slaughter weekend in Texas - the gang members were allowed to stay/sit aside and smoke cigarettes instead of being shackled face down in the dirt with muzzles pointed at them. Is it that Texas cops have a good community relationship with Bandidos?
2
Wako police department was concerned civil rights groups would jump on them if they didn't treat the bikers with respect. Some how I don't think the bikers are going to get much love from civil rights groups and Al Sharpton.
1
Great move by the President! The concern over the militarization of police is not only an urban concern - it is a rural issue as well, and one that plagues both rich and poor, and all persons regardless of color, since it promotes unnecessary surveillance, aggressive search and seizure tactics, and a hyper-macho attitude [and response]. It also inflates small town budgets, as the training needed to ensure proper use, and maintain and replace equipment becomes burdensome as well.
That small and large police departments more and more operate like the FBI is also no accident - graduation from the FBI's National Defense Academies is considered a badge of honor and a valuable perk for local police and creates deep ties between local and federal policing agencies. As an information-sharing strategy this is useful, but it promotes mission creep and a loss of local autonomy in policing.
The US used to be the standard-bearer in the separation of police and military functions. No more, and these grants are a significant cause for the loss of our traditions and higher ground.
That small and large police departments more and more operate like the FBI is also no accident - graduation from the FBI's National Defense Academies is considered a badge of honor and a valuable perk for local police and creates deep ties between local and federal policing agencies. As an information-sharing strategy this is useful, but it promotes mission creep and a loss of local autonomy in policing.
The US used to be the standard-bearer in the separation of police and military functions. No more, and these grants are a significant cause for the loss of our traditions and higher ground.
4
"...The US used to be the standard-bearer in the separation of police and military functions. No more, and these grants are a significant cause for the loss of our traditions and higher ground..."
___
Under this Administration: "The US used to be the standard-bearer... No more..."
___
Under this Administration: "The US used to be the standard-bearer... No more..."
Evidently the President, and most of the media, believe police procedural problems are caused by the military equipment given them by the government. A strange and unbelievable "cause and effect", wouldn't you say?
1
The problem of confusing police with military predated 9/11, when "war" was declared on drugs.
In reality the war has been on poor people addicted to drugs, who were and still are suffering from an illness and in need of effective rehab, not criminalization.
Decriminalize drug use, put effective treatments in place, and most of the killing on the streets by both citizens and police will stop.
In reality the war has been on poor people addicted to drugs, who were and still are suffering from an illness and in need of effective rehab, not criminalization.
Decriminalize drug use, put effective treatments in place, and most of the killing on the streets by both citizens and police will stop.
6
Hooray. I'm tired of living in a country where I feel like a SWAT team is lurking around every corner looking for an excuse to bust in somebody's door.
Great move by the President.
Great move by the President.
4
For some reason, I do not believe, and I do not think you can ever convince me to believe, that SWAT teams are at the root of society's problems, nor are they the cause of the lootings, shootings, burnings and riotings. Have another go at it please. Tell me again how many times SWAT teams have caused you or your neighborhood to have problems......
2
How many years have you lived your life in an poverty stricken, bombed out looking inner city? How many restaurants have you been at where biker gangs have shoot outs?
There' s a reason we differentiate our military and our police...of course, if you want to live in a banana republic, we can always combine them.
There' s a reason we differentiate our military and our police...of course, if you want to live in a banana republic, we can always combine them.
With regard to the 'body cameras' for police I have one comment. If these cameras can be turned on and off at will by the people wearing them, they should refrain from wasting taxpayer money.
Leave us hope that President Obama cc-ed Homeland Security who has been gifting even the smallest police departments with over the top military weapons since soon after 9-11. It's funny..wait, it's not funny that the more weapons & protection cops have the more paranoid & trigger happy they've become....especially if your skin is black.
The vast majority of white people like me think black people are making entirely too much fuss over the slaughter of young black men & boys by the police. "What's the matter with them people?" People.....if all this murder by cop was happening to white people the country would already be in flames.
The photo with this story about says it all. Or in my town where we only have the occasional machete murder by disturbed white men, so far they haven't broken out the high powered weapons but nearly every time there's a black person involved 6 cop cars show up like Osama's cousin is in the car.
You know we have a problem in this country......those who say we don't are lying. Notice white Presidents have looked out for the safety of white people since 1776. This new limit on military-style equipment will benefit black people more than old lumpy white men like me. But there's nothing wrong with a black President watching extra close to find ways to improve the safety of the black race.
I hope he pulls out all the stops in his remaining time in office!
The vast majority of white people like me think black people are making entirely too much fuss over the slaughter of young black men & boys by the police. "What's the matter with them people?" People.....if all this murder by cop was happening to white people the country would already be in flames.
The photo with this story about says it all. Or in my town where we only have the occasional machete murder by disturbed white men, so far they haven't broken out the high powered weapons but nearly every time there's a black person involved 6 cop cars show up like Osama's cousin is in the car.
You know we have a problem in this country......those who say we don't are lying. Notice white Presidents have looked out for the safety of white people since 1776. This new limit on military-style equipment will benefit black people more than old lumpy white men like me. But there's nothing wrong with a black President watching extra close to find ways to improve the safety of the black race.
I hope he pulls out all the stops in his remaining time in office!
4
As.a person who served in a Inf Div I never though I would see this country's police looking like they do in Banana RepublicKs where the boss looks like doormen of old.
People who disagree should get a passport an see how they operate.
The same people that quote the constitution and freedom when it appeals to them should read up on the countries that started with jackboots and made military and police heroes caused many American casulties in the last century an it has not changed to this day
People who disagree should get a passport an see how they operate.
The same people that quote the constitution and freedom when it appeals to them should read up on the countries that started with jackboots and made military and police heroes caused many American casulties in the last century an it has not changed to this day
1
And who is going to deal with the biker gang shooting yesterday that left 9 dead and 150 arrested? Police with pepper spray and clubs?
2
There were dozens of police at this bar and they were totally ineffective
They were normally armed police officers, in case you didn't notice.
Also, the bikers wouldn't have been heavily armed if it wasn't for their 'right' to bear arms.
This country's fantasy for arms is deeply disturbing to me, and I am an expert marksman from years ago. Gave it up. Stupid hobby.
Also, the bikers wouldn't have been heavily armed if it wasn't for their 'right' to bear arms.
This country's fantasy for arms is deeply disturbing to me, and I am an expert marksman from years ago. Gave it up. Stupid hobby.
1
Really? What happens in a 9/11 type situation where a terrorist or terrorists may be at large or involved in a hostage situation? I think the equipment also worked quite well in Boston while the authorities were still searching through neighborhoods for one of the perpetrators who was presumed to be heavily armed and a danger to the community and its citizens.
1
Typical, superficial, cosmetic solution to a problem. Just what our society likes - they can avoid the hard questions this way...
As a long time Liberal Democrat, I hate to say this again: Obama disappoints me. Such ridiculous reasoning is way below his abilities. He should leave the shallow-thinking to the media and the Bushes and the Cheneys..........
Great news to start off the week with, long overdue.
At this point we've all seen the appalling pictures and videos of domestic police with tanks rolling through the streets of rural and suburban America, military-grade weapons pointed at protesters.
Time to de-fund the blank check and privileged access we've given to our police forces across the country following the fear inducing events over a decade ago. I especially like the part about shifting the tone from "policing" to "defending"...after all, the motto is "To Protect and Serve".
At this point we've all seen the appalling pictures and videos of domestic police with tanks rolling through the streets of rural and suburban America, military-grade weapons pointed at protesters.
Time to de-fund the blank check and privileged access we've given to our police forces across the country following the fear inducing events over a decade ago. I especially like the part about shifting the tone from "policing" to "defending"...after all, the motto is "To Protect and Serve".
6
It is truly sad to see one of the world's greatest democracies devolve into a police state in which its own population lives in fear and hatred of the government. I applaud Mr. Obama for trying to remedy that situation, but there are many other cracks in the dyke that are also are in need of attention - the growing disparity between the have and the have-nots and our political process that is too heavily influenced by those with money, are other big threats to our democracy.
4
2little
2late
Isn"t interfering or impeding the military industrial complex both an impeachable offense and Capitol offense?
2late
Isn"t interfering or impeding the military industrial complex both an impeachable offense and Capitol offense?
1
There is no "perp" worth discharging a 50BMG round inside city limits for and no rescue situation that requires and FAV to accomplish.
Militarization of police is just cops "Playing Army" and waaay outside the role police are supposed to fulfill.
I have yet to see or hear of a police situation in the US that required the kind of hardware we used in Iraq.
When gangbangers actually manage to hit what they are aiming at even 10% of the time or start using small unit tactics and carrying SAWs and RPGs I might change my mind but for now this wannabe commando BS in our communities needs to end.
Put them on the street, give them the best body armor money can buy and dump all of the resources they put into adversarial pretend soldier stuff into actually learning to communicate with the locals.
US Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan actually had closer relations with indigenous locals that US cops have with folks in their own patrol areas.
Riding around in an MRAP scowling at "civilians"(even though cops are civilians themselves) doesn't give you respect in the community. Having enough guts to dismount and talk with the local elders without going on some bustorama fishing trip is what gives you cred from Rochester to Ramadi, period.
Militarization of police is just cops "Playing Army" and waaay outside the role police are supposed to fulfill.
I have yet to see or hear of a police situation in the US that required the kind of hardware we used in Iraq.
When gangbangers actually manage to hit what they are aiming at even 10% of the time or start using small unit tactics and carrying SAWs and RPGs I might change my mind but for now this wannabe commando BS in our communities needs to end.
Put them on the street, give them the best body armor money can buy and dump all of the resources they put into adversarial pretend soldier stuff into actually learning to communicate with the locals.
US Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan actually had closer relations with indigenous locals that US cops have with folks in their own patrol areas.
Riding around in an MRAP scowling at "civilians"(even though cops are civilians themselves) doesn't give you respect in the community. Having enough guts to dismount and talk with the local elders without going on some bustorama fishing trip is what gives you cred from Rochester to Ramadi, period.
10
Commander William Adama: There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
3
And the oath to defend America against all enemies foreign and domestic? Just words to a liberal.
One last thought on this subject. I agree that municipal police have become alarmingly paramilitary since 9-11. I agree with curtailing their access to military gear.
But if the Obamas decide to return to Chicago after the next election (unlikely) it will be interesting to see how exceptionally the forces surrounding his home's neighborhood are equipped. Many shootings occur within blocks. My prediction: it will look like the former "green zone" fortifications in Iraq.
But if the Obamas decide to return to Chicago after the next election (unlikely) it will be interesting to see how exceptionally the forces surrounding his home's neighborhood are equipped. Many shootings occur within blocks. My prediction: it will look like the former "green zone" fortifications in Iraq.
The Obamas are not returning to Chiraq. This has been in the news for several weeks.
2
Ken, it has been reported that the Obamas will not return to CHIRAQ when he leaves office.
Hpefully they'll go back to Hawaii, out of sight out of mind.
No M113s, but MRAPS are OK because they have wheels? This didn't go far enough.
2
The militarization of our police forces is one of the most dastardly moves by our so-called "leaders". It escalates the situation and turns everything into a crisis. In many respects it circumvents the original intention of Posse Commitatus. It is a transfer of our tax dollars which many individuals would not support if they considered fully the implications.
If the United States turns into a civilization which requires razor wire fences and bars on the windows of most communities that will be a clear failure of leadership and governance. It would be a failure of opportunity. It would be a failure of our civilization.
If the United States turns into a civilization which requires razor wire fences and bars on the windows of most communities that will be a clear failure of leadership and governance. It would be a failure of opportunity. It would be a failure of our civilization.
5
PC nonsense writ large. But then again, those whom the mollification is aimed at apparently do vote during presidential years, so shrewd move Obama. Next up: criminalizing not voting, that'll cut down on the evil GOP advantage in off year elections.
2
Who pays for the maintenance and upkeep on the armored vehicles? You can't simply take to the motor pool for repairs. How much are the insurance premiums on them? In other words, what is the true cost of them to local police who accept them?
18
Or, more accurately, the true cost to the local taxpayer. Those guys arent paying for the equipment out of their overtime checks, (and nor are they paying the civil damage suits) the taxpayers are.
The cost? How about less than an officer shot through the head? Or don't you care about their safety?
Once again, from a failed president, another bad policy.
1
For all the reporting on this, it wasn't until I read a short article in the Economist that pointed out this militarizing of police also coincides with a time that crime has dropped nationally. Add that to the fact that one of the requirements of accepting the equipment is that it be used, and you have a government practically paving the way to trouble.
5
This should have absolutely nothing to do with "minority communities". The ever expanding power of big government is a problem for all citizens and it has been getting even worse since 9/11.
3
Obama plainly understands that when it comes time for a Progressive federal government to subdue a recalcitrant population in order to enforce whatever progressive piety his statist authoritarians come up with in the future, that local populations including police must not have anything remotely close to parity in terms of weaponry.
1
Sorry, my friend, but police forces in no way represent the people. You, perhaps, but not the rest of us.
It is a great thing to get military weapons out of the hands of police.
It is a great thing to get military weapons out of the hands of police.
"Statist"? What are you talking about? We vote here, and we voted for Obama twice. He is not Hitler, and this is not the Third Reich. If you want an authoritarian Republican president, get out the vote for Jeb Bush. He is the governor who forced a man to keep his brain dead wife on life support; the man had to use his savings to hire an attorney to end that farce. He is the governor who allowed busloads of people into Florida to bang on doors where votes were being counted. I cannot think of Obama doing either of those things.
When the roots of a garden weed aren't removed along with the weed itself the weed will return again and again and even produces new weeds. The same can be said regarding the perceived need by law enforcement for military-style equipment. Thus, if serious underlying core issues (regarding both police and the policed--because one doesn't exist without the other) aren't understood and properly addressed chronic problems will probably persist undaunted by the act of simply removing a certain type of equipment from the mix.
1
It is too bad that an American president has to place an embargo on military equipment for our own police.
Police, as part of local governments, should be of, by and for the people. Instead, they are their own knighthood, acting out their role against us--we are the unruly subjects to be oppress into compliance. To them, we are not citizens, but each a potential problem to be dealt with as "actively" as possible.
We now have great universities sitting adjacent "technical" parks--sometimes as big as the univerity campuses, where defense contractors interact and are entwined with the schools; drawing DOD funding for the universities and drawing off talent from their graduates.
Fifty five years after General of the Army and President Eisenhower warned us about the dangers of a military industrial complex, its tendrils are deep in our culture. Weapons manufacturers will miss their clients the police and their mannequins in Congress will respond.
God bless our guns. They are what makes America America.
Police, as part of local governments, should be of, by and for the people. Instead, they are their own knighthood, acting out their role against us--we are the unruly subjects to be oppress into compliance. To them, we are not citizens, but each a potential problem to be dealt with as "actively" as possible.
We now have great universities sitting adjacent "technical" parks--sometimes as big as the univerity campuses, where defense contractors interact and are entwined with the schools; drawing DOD funding for the universities and drawing off talent from their graduates.
Fifty five years after General of the Army and President Eisenhower warned us about the dangers of a military industrial complex, its tendrils are deep in our culture. Weapons manufacturers will miss their clients the police and their mannequins in Congress will respond.
God bless our guns. They are what makes America America.
4
The equipment task force stems from an executive order, and its conclusions affect only the material supplied by the federal government, while the policing recommendations are merely a blueprint for what Mr. Obama would like to see happen in jurisdictions throughout the country.
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In plain English this will change next to nothing but it will present another opportunity for another Obama speech. I cannot remember a more inept president and I go back to Eisenhower.
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In plain English this will change next to nothing but it will present another opportunity for another Obama speech. I cannot remember a more inept president and I go back to Eisenhower.
Apparently you don't recall the last one who set the all-time lowest point on the presidential bar?
1
I can. Ronald Reagan and the murder of 300 Marines in Beirut, and the nonsense landing in Haiti to save a bunch of Americans who couldn't qualify for admission to American medical schools. If you think Eisenhower would have deployed WWII weaponry against American civilians, I have a bridge.
This is as usual purely symbolic and has nothing to do with solving any real problems that currently exist. Broken windows policing and racial profiling, among other codified tactics which are aimed primarily at abusing and unjustly targeting poor minorities, can continue unabated, perhaps even accelerating, without the need for armored personnel carriers of RPG's. Besides, there's probably enough Rambo outfits in the closets of most police stations to date to wage a complete siege of this nation.
And is it really not more the manner of those wearing the armor than the armor itself that's turning policeman around the country into seeming marauders and vigilantes?
And is it really not more the manner of those wearing the armor than the armor itself that's turning policeman around the country into seeming marauders and vigilantes?
2
The fact that this article is next to an article about a massive shootout caused by biker gangs in Texas involving over 30 guns reveals a problem with this sort of broad decision. Not all counties and cities are equally safe and consequently the level of equipment needed by different police departments can widely vary. If we're talking about a small town with a minimal crime rate then yes, the police don't need assault rifles and armored vehicles, but if we talk about larger cities like New York, Chicago, LA, etc. with substantially higher violent crime rates then the police there need better equipment. What would be better than a broad cancelling of distribution would be an application process where each department needs to apply for more advanced weaponry and military vehicles.
11
The problem is that we live in a country where bikers are allowed to drive around wit loaded guns.
Too many guns, period.
Get it?
Too many guns, period.
Get it?
2
And yet if you read that article on Waco, the cops were able to subdue the gangs with no police or civilian casualties -- apparently without the use of tanks, camo, howitzers, or dive bombers.
2
What you said. I live in Oakland. The criminals here are NO JOKE.
Sure;let's send all that same equipment we limit having here to the Middle East,etc.,where monies are spent "carte blanche" in countries who hate and despise us ..but having the $$ and equipment here is a problem monetarily??
Perhaps the most dangerous surplus military items in today's police forces are military veterans hired on as police officers. We appear to be suffering the predictable consequences of hiring ex combatants from dangerous "us-versus-them" war zones to police us. Notice how police now call the general public "civilians" in contrast to themselves. If one recalls junior high school civics, the police are supposed to be "civilians", too, not domestically deployed soldiers .... right?
7
It is very true that it is impractical for the Federal Government to "police" local police forces, which are run by locally-elected officials. A very cursory look around the country shows many locations where bantam rooster-type policing is encouraged and supported by the local communities.
Here in the West, the most infamous are perhaps Maricopa and Pinal counties in Arizona, led by Sheriffs Arpaio and Babeau. Their actions have been egregious, but supported by a like-minded community they have consistently been re-elected.
What can a citizen do who objects to this police menace? Very little other than keep your head down and move elsewhere.
Here in the West, the most infamous are perhaps Maricopa and Pinal counties in Arizona, led by Sheriffs Arpaio and Babeau. Their actions have been egregious, but supported by a like-minded community they have consistently been re-elected.
What can a citizen do who objects to this police menace? Very little other than keep your head down and move elsewhere.
3
I've completely given up on Obama in terms of leadership. He's a right center Republican. At best. He's just moving the deck chairs around as the list increases..
I'm going hope we elect Ted Cruz or some other wacko, so we can move to whatever comes next, our current situation is simply enduring the cuts as they approach five or six hundred. One thousand is in sight but a long way away.
I'm going hope we elect Ted Cruz or some other wacko, so we can move to whatever comes next, our current situation is simply enduring the cuts as they approach five or six hundred. One thousand is in sight but a long way away.
Now let's see a ban on assaulting officers, grabbing officers' guns, lying about "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" and more.
Plenty of advocates on restricting the police but none about personal responsibility on the part of citizens.
If you don't think police need these weapons, then you should be at the front line of the police as they quell riots and "protests" in areas you won't even drive through in the daytime.
Plenty of advocates on restricting the police but none about personal responsibility on the part of citizens.
If you don't think police need these weapons, then you should be at the front line of the police as they quell riots and "protests" in areas you won't even drive through in the daytime.
2
This will be yet another great domestic policy advanced by the Administration, and similar to some of its great foreign policy initiatives.
What some American subcultures want is actually for local government to cease forcing the rule-of-law down their throats, restricting their freedom, and limiting their opportunities to succeed.
Now it appears that local law enforcement will simply have to stand down as they did in Baltimore, or seek funding from sources closer to home. At any rate, this is, more change you can believe in.
What some American subcultures want is actually for local government to cease forcing the rule-of-law down their throats, restricting their freedom, and limiting their opportunities to succeed.
Now it appears that local law enforcement will simply have to stand down as they did in Baltimore, or seek funding from sources closer to home. At any rate, this is, more change you can believe in.
Have you ever been to Europe? London bobbies are unarmed; French police have weights in their capes, rarely used. The only nonsense I ever saw was in Spain under Franco where even the train conductors looked like Mussolini. Our problem is guns and a dangerous "wild west" mentality. The Second Amendment was written at time when the colonies needed a standing militia. We now have a National Guard. We do not need armed vigilantes deciding what the "rule of law" is.
The accompanying photograph to this article, displaying five fully-armed, fully-dressed soldiers, advancing, weapons drawn, upon an armed civilian, hands raised, is all the proof we need to see why police departments need to "stand down." Leafy suburban communities wouldn't abide this intrusion; why should urban areas?
Liberals are childish. While attacking the police, the military and structures of civilization itself they never acknowledge that they and their silly ideas are protected by the "ugly men with guns" they sneer at. How many liberals were in Waco this weekend making socialist speeches to the bikers as they ran amok?
3
How many liberals frequent a biker bar which should have been closed down a long time ago. I remember visiting a friend in Texas and watching "KKR" trucks driving on the median strip, because they didn't want to bother with heavy traffic. Not all of Texas needs military weaponry; some of Texas needs to deal with its biker gangs. We had them in L.A., Hells Angels, and the police kept them in their place. We had them in Oakland, and the police had to deal with their violence there. Biker gangs are gangs, just like any other gang. There are peaceful riders, and there are gangs. There is a huge difference.
For those who are complaining about this, I have a question.
What about your local police department having heavy artillery and tanks makes your community better?
The entire background behind this phenomenon was the defense department and defense industry pawning off excess war equipment to local police when it was no longer needed for global warfare. All this does is enrich the defense industry and leave that much less money in your communities for other purposes.
I'd rather these cities use some of that money to pay their cops much better. The rest can go to improving the infrastructure and economy of those localities - which is the best way to stop crime.
What about your local police department having heavy artillery and tanks makes your community better?
The entire background behind this phenomenon was the defense department and defense industry pawning off excess war equipment to local police when it was no longer needed for global warfare. All this does is enrich the defense industry and leave that much less money in your communities for other purposes.
I'd rather these cities use some of that money to pay their cops much better. The rest can go to improving the infrastructure and economy of those localities - which is the best way to stop crime.
5
I have been asking the same question of the police for a long time. I served in the military for 25 years and understand the purpose and capabilities of this militarized equipment. It is almost comical to see police roll up on some dude holding his girlfriend hostage in their camo uniforms, armored vehicles, Kevlar helmets, flak jackets, crew-served weapons, M16s, and knee and elbow pads. This equipment is for those who are in harm's way for months or years continuously and who face armed combatants everyday, not the "swat team" who rolls in with armored vehicles, military assault/sniper rifles, and who are home every night tucked securely into their beds. Way....way...way too many differences between the defenders of freedom of this country and those who are tasked with keeping law and order at home. My recommendation to the police.....if you want to be a soldier....then go be a soldier. If you're not really into that level of sacrifice, then leave the military weapons to the military.
44
Thank you.
Not to mention the SWAT teams to raid a private home when the police think that the residents might be smoking marijuana (not selling it, smoking it), where the police shoot the dog and hold families hostage while they search the house.
In America.
In America.
Agree with you ISA. Let's take the Rambo culture out of some police departments. It surely is ridiculous to see a whole army of police after some minor criminal event; I see the same with ambulance services. It's not rare to see a plethora of fire engines, ambulances, volunteer ambulances, and other sort of resources conveying onto a pedestrian who had an scrap with the pavement or such. It's overkill all over!
Sorrowfully, in some cases you need to bring out the heavy duty equipment. Not to have it, when you need it, will surely mean disaster. What seems to be lacking is some sense about levels of response. No doubt, the police have a very difficult job and must be properly armed, particularly in this society, but their response repertoire seems to be so limited. I can see better logistics for military type equipment being made available to all when needed, but this will not solve the actual problem. At point blank range, suspects are potentially very dangerous, and need to be neutralized, preferably in the most humane way possible. In dealing with uncooperative suspects tasers have not proven their effectiveness. We need to find something that works? In a civil society, the issue would never come up, but in our conflicted society, it's a big problem. This country likes to pride itself on being something. We hear it all the time, the leader of the free world, the leader of democracy, but this is all kind of made up. We live in a society that thrives on controversy, and this is one that seems to light up all the lights. As a result, there is little to no motivation to resolve. The camps are drawn. You can see it in the posting. This gesture on the part of the President is to present the appearance of "doing something," when it is really quite insignificant.
7
We ought note that, by courtesy of the NRA, military style equipment, armor piercing bullets, and protective vests, will still be available to criminals.
1
God forbid would we try and ban high-powered assault rifles from the public. The NRA would scream loudly in support of the Second Amendment. This was the reason we increased firepower for local law enforcement -- so they could defend themselves and us! And now, we are disarming those who defend us? The hypocricy of this is absurd, no, appalling.
1
Wow! One of the first anti- fascist actions on the domestic front by this or any US administration in a very long time.
A hopeful sign we may yet come to resemble a republic again.
A hopeful sign we may yet come to resemble a republic again.
35
Suburban cops dressed as soldiers driving aggressive looking black cars with tinted windows. Not like I remember it. Good move Obama. Their entire approach needs a makeover.
5
This is political theatre. The damage has been done and it will continue unless Americans wake up and stop sending compromised politicians to the Hill.
Woodrow Wilson, 1916, said:
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
Even Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex.
We seem unable or unwilling to heed any of these warnings. We seem determined to sit idly by and let bought and paid for politicians play us for fools. We fall for their divisive rhetoric and send Democrat and Republican to the Hill over and over again.
Does no one see how insane this has become? Do you not see this is nothing but a game to them. Who has come through these bad economic times unscathed? Those at the top. That's who the Federal government serves because that who has bought them their position.
Wake up Americans- cut the head of the snake that is strangling your country by getting money out of politics. DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM.
Woodrow Wilson, 1916, said:
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
Even Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex.
We seem unable or unwilling to heed any of these warnings. We seem determined to sit idly by and let bought and paid for politicians play us for fools. We fall for their divisive rhetoric and send Democrat and Republican to the Hill over and over again.
Does no one see how insane this has become? Do you not see this is nothing but a game to them. Who has come through these bad economic times unscathed? Those at the top. That's who the Federal government serves because that who has bought them their position.
Wake up Americans- cut the head of the snake that is strangling your country by getting money out of politics. DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM.
2
"After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the federal government sharply expanded its efforts to provide police departments with automatic weapons, armored vehicles and other military-style gear through grant programs at the Homeland Security and Justice Departments and transfers from the Defense Department."
The lesson here is that throwing money at a problem, real or imagined, will not result in the desired outcomes but also will result in unintended consequences. The mindset after 9/11 was that terrorists were here in the US and ready to wage war on American soil and that local police forces need military-styled firepower and equipment to fight street war against terrorists. It was irrational and unfounded fear that enabled this misplaced policy of militarization of local police forces. American communities are paying a dear price for this federally enabled and misplaced policy, deepening the mistrust between police and those they swear to protect and to serve.
The government, both local and federal, policies put in place after 9/11 should remind all Americans to be vigilant and call out those policies based on irrational fear that contradict American values, circumvent the US constitution and degrade American quality of life.
The lesson here is that throwing money at a problem, real or imagined, will not result in the desired outcomes but also will result in unintended consequences. The mindset after 9/11 was that terrorists were here in the US and ready to wage war on American soil and that local police forces need military-styled firepower and equipment to fight street war against terrorists. It was irrational and unfounded fear that enabled this misplaced policy of militarization of local police forces. American communities are paying a dear price for this federally enabled and misplaced policy, deepening the mistrust between police and those they swear to protect and to serve.
The government, both local and federal, policies put in place after 9/11 should remind all Americans to be vigilant and call out those policies based on irrational fear that contradict American values, circumvent the US constitution and degrade American quality of life.
3
Obama who supposedly worked as a community organizer should know that "sweet and gentle" does not work on the South Side of Chicago and other ghettos. Local gangs have easy access to automatic weapons not to mention the new breed of Islamic terrorists with bombs. His continual "Balme Game" on the police belies his total failure to lead the "Culture Change" neede in the African American community to conservative family values and respect for the police that allow the law abiding residents in these communities to fight their way out of poverty. This is sad political ploy to change the focus to very men and women (often African American) who risk their lives daily. Any equipment that makes their lives more secure and allows better enforcement of the law and protection of the innocent is a good thing not a bad thing. Obama has become the "Great Divider" at home and overseas where he has no respect and has allowed the deterioration of America's leadership and confused our allies.
3
You entirely miss the point.
What, exactly, has changed in the world since we used to have police wandering around lightly armed and without camouflage and bullet-proof vests? The 'what' is the NRA and the resultant tens of thousands of people wandering around armed at all times ready to shoot at whomever/whenever. That, in turn, has ratcheted up police tactics.
Gun mania, hyped by hysterical media and conspiracy minded 'innocent' people (hah!), has destroyed the soul of this nation. The gun culture has rotted us at the core.
Former NRA member, and embarrassed to have been one.
What, exactly, has changed in the world since we used to have police wandering around lightly armed and without camouflage and bullet-proof vests? The 'what' is the NRA and the resultant tens of thousands of people wandering around armed at all times ready to shoot at whomever/whenever. That, in turn, has ratcheted up police tactics.
Gun mania, hyped by hysterical media and conspiracy minded 'innocent' people (hah!), has destroyed the soul of this nation. The gun culture has rotted us at the core.
Former NRA member, and embarrassed to have been one.
Riots and Civil Insurrection are not the job of the police - that's what the National Guard is for.
The fact that police departments crave this equipment, suggests that they are clueless about what their real job is.
Takes cops out of cars, and put them out in the street, - on foot and alone, and they will be able to start doing actual police work.
Keep mind that most cops in the UK do not carry, and do not want to carry guns. At one time, Americans said that this could be done there, because the UK was full of "superior people"; now they have a large "non-superior" population, and they are still, for the most part, going out unarmed. Maybe they know something about the nature of police work we don't.
The fact that police departments crave this equipment, suggests that they are clueless about what their real job is.
Takes cops out of cars, and put them out in the street, - on foot and alone, and they will be able to start doing actual police work.
Keep mind that most cops in the UK do not carry, and do not want to carry guns. At one time, Americans said that this could be done there, because the UK was full of "superior people"; now they have a large "non-superior" population, and they are still, for the most part, going out unarmed. Maybe they know something about the nature of police work we don't.
2
They do. And, they also know that there are no gun stores on every street. You can't walk in and buy an AK47, or any other kind of gun. Londoners are safe from gun violence; we are not. Same thing in France, The Netherlands, Spain, Italy and Portugal. Europeans had their fill of guns in WWII.
1
Isn't this like shutting the barn door after the horses have left? I didn't see anywhere in the article that the militarized equipment that has already been distributed has to be returned?
26
Anybody remember Kent State? May 4, 1970.
6
Yes i was there visiting my cousin who attended for 2 years.
Was Kent the 54th or 55th State?
Didn't realize it was a junior college.
Finally! As an NRA hating gun owner I'm glad to see common sense brought back to the discussion of arming police. A tank neither serves nor protects and isn't exactly sending a friendly message.
More than military armaments there should be a directive to reduce the use of lethal force. Next up is eliminating civil asset forfeiture.
More than military armaments there should be a directive to reduce the use of lethal force. Next up is eliminating civil asset forfeiture.
3
Good move. Isn't the National Guard the people we call in when military presence/equipment is needed?
5
"A well regulated militia"..........
With all the needless Police killings we have seen nationwide, from New York to South Carolina, Ohio to Arizona and every tragedy in-between, the common denominator is a need to de-escalate a tense situation. Military-grade equipment could only serve to up the ante for things to devolve. This is a good step from President Obama and helpful to the Justice Department, whose top priority must be curbing violence from law enforcement.
4
Liberals will only be happy when the police have no weapons or authority to protect us. Based on the comments written here that is exactly what some are hoping for.
The difference between the Charlie Hebdo attack and the terrorist attack in Garland, Texas was the ability of professionally trained law enforcement using "Military-Style" equipment to terminate the threat. The initial responding officers in Charlie Hebdo were not armed that is why that attack when on for days and many lost their lives.
The police are not our enemy.
The difference between the Charlie Hebdo attack and the terrorist attack in Garland, Texas was the ability of professionally trained law enforcement using "Military-Style" equipment to terminate the threat. The initial responding officers in Charlie Hebdo were not armed that is why that attack when on for days and many lost their lives.
The police are not our enemy.
5
The French public did not then demand that police be armed with the latest military weaponry. They used the resources they had and eventually cornered and killed the perpetrators. The police did not go in with guns blazing endangering any citizens who might be in the way.
"The ban is part of a series of steps the president has made to try to build trust between law enforcement organizations and the citizens they are charged with protecting."
The key point in that statement is "... the citizens they are charged with protecting"
That is something no police department should forget, they are first and foremost, public servants, in the employ of the people, to protect the people.
No more, no less, and they, being people themselves, are subject to the same laws they are charged with ensuring the people do not break.
This "holier than thou", and superiority attitude has to go, and if these public servants cannot be disabused of it, then they must be made to go, as in fired..
The key point in that statement is "... the citizens they are charged with protecting"
That is something no police department should forget, they are first and foremost, public servants, in the employ of the people, to protect the people.
No more, no less, and they, being people themselves, are subject to the same laws they are charged with ensuring the people do not break.
This "holier than thou", and superiority attitude has to go, and if these public servants cannot be disabused of it, then they must be made to go, as in fired..
3
I believe a better move would be to be more selective in which PD's get the equipment, require some training on when it is to be deployed in public and how to use it effectively. Put strings on it so that places like Ferguson, where there are obvious problems between the officials and the public (more of a problem with the bosses than the rank and file). Look at Baltimore: the cops are right at 50% black, the problems are with the Mayor, the PC and the chief prosecutor (who doesn't know the difference between a legal and illegal knife). Their policies (give them room to riot and burn), etc. and lack of community policing policies, are the really serious problems. All patrolmen and women want a positive atmosphere on their beat. They just need training and backup when required. It seems impossible to focus on the real issues when you have politicians involved. God, they suck!
1
Anything he can do to help his core constituents is first up on Obama's list. Limit the police with less equipment, and help the rioters and looters in Ferguson and Baltimore. Makes perfect sense to Obama and other apologists for criminals.
2
It should a no brainer that when you equip police with military equipment, that eventually the police will regard the citizens they are there to protect, as enemy combatants when tensions rise because of perceived police misconduct, and then the situation escalates and becomes a "tornado" of violence with nobody in control.
4
I love it how all the right-wing/NRA operatives who drop in here with their Obama derangement are all of a sudden SO concerned with the black community. It makes me smile to see them bend themselves into pretzels trying to decide which strange bedfellow to get in with as long as they can somehow, some way, slam Obama.
5
"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending deliberately with faulty arguments."
- Nietzsche
- Nietzsche
That shocking photo says it all.
2
If he thought he could get away with it, the Obama administration would disarm local police entirely.
Only people who need to be disarmed are the NRA
2
There has been a trend in the public appearance of police. Even in my small semi-rural town they are weighted down with pounds of equipment in addition to whatever artillery they have chosen use. The cars they drive look mean and ugly. The overall impression created is unapproachable, strangeness and a “don’t mess with me” message, whatever the intentions of the men and women inside the equipment may be. A parallel trend has been happening in the appearance of our cars and trucks. Ugly, boastful and as close to a military effect as possible seems to be the present design mantra for some American makers.
4
Traffic cops here in Tucson Arizona use heavily over-powered lights that are actually dangerous and extremely distracting. Further, they typically tag-team people for minor traffic violations (e.g. two cops in two cars).
Our money NOT at work.
I prefer to have zero interaction with cops. I no longer trust them.
Our money NOT at work.
I prefer to have zero interaction with cops. I no longer trust them.
OK now it's time for all the people who live in fear, who cannot even enjoy their lives because they are so deathly afraid of their own shadows to have their say about how we are all about to die at the hands of the boogeyman. They are going to say how they like having armed to the teeth half wits protecting them.
Ok folks lets hear it....
Ok folks lets hear it....
4
hope you never need the help and or protection of those "half wits", I guess everything is always honkey dorey in "progressive democrat" land
2
Right! What ever happened to "Protect and Serve?"
Excellent decision by the President, supported by the findings of a task force. We don't need tanks on our street. I just wish, as others here have said, that the President and willing members of Congress could pass legislation to ban semi-automatic firearms to the general public, as is overwhelming supported by that same American public in opinion poll after opinion poll. The lobbyists of the NRA and other semi-automatic proponents have no legitimate case.
7
One of the rare times that I find myself in complete agreement with the Obama Administration. Local law enforcement has no business in obtaining, or using any of the items he plans to restrict Also I believe they should even recall the items already distributed.
2
Pre-9/11 the police already had access to military rifles. This article also doesn't mention any Federal Gov recommendation that local PD's can't acquire their own hi-powered rifles. What Obama is seeking to do is reverse another very unfortunate side effect of out global war on terror and that's a hyper militarized local police force funded by pork barrel Federal spending. Giving this money to law enforcement is economic fat.
Hopefully these measures really take affect. When local counties and city police need money to run around jumping out of armored strike vehicles like their city is Baghdad or Ramadi they should have to do like their local teaches do and have a bake sale. Let see how many brownies and cookies they can sell. Here's a recommendation. Make them pot brownies and they'll probably be able to sell a lot more at a higher price.
Hopefully these measures really take affect. When local counties and city police need money to run around jumping out of armored strike vehicles like their city is Baghdad or Ramadi they should have to do like their local teaches do and have a bake sale. Let see how many brownies and cookies they can sell. Here's a recommendation. Make them pot brownies and they'll probably be able to sell a lot more at a higher price.
First thing he has done right in a long time. The question for people on the left and the right is whose side the police are on.
While I understand that police officers have an understandable lack of desire to die in the line of duty, the combination of their refusal to to provide protection to citizens in some situations, their desire to disarm people who live in places with inadequate police protection, and the fact that they have stopped presenting the image of "Officer Friendly", and have started presenting the image of Rambo creates a frightening picture for the future of policing.
While I understand that police officers have an understandable lack of desire to die in the line of duty, the combination of their refusal to to provide protection to citizens in some situations, their desire to disarm people who live in places with inadequate police protection, and the fact that they have stopped presenting the image of "Officer Friendly", and have started presenting the image of Rambo creates a frightening picture for the future of policing.
As much as I approve of this move, I would have loved another headline that read, "Obama to limit rioting and violent attacks on businesses and citizens". That would be an even-handed exercise in leadership in the interest of public safety. Yes, law enforcement has lost the public's trust and will require oversight as a result. But on the other hand, impromptu 'communities' must not be permitted to hide behind the First Amendment while destroying infrastructure and the lives of hard working citizens because they feel entitled to do so at any whim. These attacks are also hate crimes and should be held to the same standard.
The biggest problem I see here is recruitment. The type of personnel police organizations truly need to build bridges to the community are regretfully the minority. Scott Thomsen, the Chief of Police in Camden, makes a beautiful point saying that the best way to reduce fear, crime, and distrust is for the police to leverage the best force multiplier in their arsenal, the community which they serve. That means towns and cities need to stop hiring those who are attracted to power and believe that they higher calling to public service is because they are better than it's citizens.
Also, I've always thought that police uniforms should be done away with. Wearing your lethal force in clear view can be intimidating. I've always seen people's eyes drift to an officer's weapon when having a conversation. Why not wear suit jacket and shirt with shoulder holster? Wear a badge on the jacket to identify. Currently, police officers have a Para-military appearance with all this equipment hanging off of them and their weapons in plain view. The technology exists to incorporate modern communications and information technology into a uniform that is less intimidating and more professional in appearance. I understand that the use of overt branding by police organizations can be a deterrent, but we need to think past the 20th century now, and jump into a modern era. Instead of buying armored tanks and military grade weaponry, they could be purchasing things that help defuse the relationship.
Also, I've always thought that police uniforms should be done away with. Wearing your lethal force in clear view can be intimidating. I've always seen people's eyes drift to an officer's weapon when having a conversation. Why not wear suit jacket and shirt with shoulder holster? Wear a badge on the jacket to identify. Currently, police officers have a Para-military appearance with all this equipment hanging off of them and their weapons in plain view. The technology exists to incorporate modern communications and information technology into a uniform that is less intimidating and more professional in appearance. I understand that the use of overt branding by police organizations can be a deterrent, but we need to think past the 20th century now, and jump into a modern era. Instead of buying armored tanks and military grade weaponry, they could be purchasing things that help defuse the relationship.
15
Just like the TSA should be dressed in casual and not the faux LE uniforms with faux badges they have been given.
Folks, TSA is NOT law enforcement no matter how much you want to believe they are. They are clerks employed by the DHS.
Folks, TSA is NOT law enforcement no matter how much you want to believe they are. They are clerks employed by the DHS.
There was a recent story about two Swedish policemen, tourists, who defused a confrontation on a NY subway. One subdued a boy without great force and talked to him. The second one simply knelt next to the other boy, put his hand on his shoulder and talked to him. They addressed the boys as "sir". It worked. Amazing. They were unarmed, non-violent, and they did what our police used to do. Let's get back to the cop on the beat, and away from the cop patrolling from a car, never interacting with the community on foot.
Terrible idea in my opinion. First shoulder holsters are not better. Harder/ slower for cops to unholster when they need to, and also just as easy to see as a hip holster. Also with the suit jacket and shirt, wear are you going all your other equipment? Almost any other equipment is going to be just as visible as before. Uniforms are there for a reason, and I'm gonna trust 5 men and women in uniformed police attire rather than 5 people in suits. Visibly, in an emergency situation, it would be easier finding someone in a police uniform rather than someone in a suit and trying to see if they have a badge or not
Every one of our problems, including the militarization of our police, could be solved by cutting the head off the snake.
The snake is the money that funds campaigns. The Military-Industrial Complex, the financial industry, and multi national corporations own both parties and consequently our country is governed by them.
If you are tired of vapid politicians promising what by right your Constitution identifies as a given then you need to...
DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
There is no other way to retrieve our government that is controlled by the hands of a few. No one candidate or no political party can rectify what ails this country. To keep sending compromised politicians to office is insane. The country is in need of critical thinkers, not professional campaigners.
Put your Congressional Members contact info into your phone. With this info at your fingertips you can contact all three in 6-8 min. Call/email every week and...
DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
The snake is the money that funds campaigns. The Military-Industrial Complex, the financial industry, and multi national corporations own both parties and consequently our country is governed by them.
If you are tired of vapid politicians promising what by right your Constitution identifies as a given then you need to...
DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
There is no other way to retrieve our government that is controlled by the hands of a few. No one candidate or no political party can rectify what ails this country. To keep sending compromised politicians to office is insane. The country is in need of critical thinkers, not professional campaigners.
Put your Congressional Members contact info into your phone. With this info at your fingertips you can contact all three in 6-8 min. Call/email every week and...
DEMAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
2
When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, doesn't it?
1
Bravo. Sadly, people would rather complain than act.
>
Although I was born at night and against my will, it was not last night....,I remain unconvinced.
Although I was born at night and against my will, it was not last night....,I remain unconvinced.
1
I hope that the United States Congress will do everything in it's power to stop this latest knee jerk reaction policy of our Lame Duck President. How many police officers will have to die before Congress Intercedes. We are living on a knifes edge folks. The only reason we don't see middle eastern style terrorism in our streets is that we have an FBI, CIA, NSA, and local police departments that have been well trained at discovery of these types of individuals. Who is going to police the streets? The very drug and gang members that start the problems in the first place. How come this isn't mentioned in the press. I think we are entering a time of media driven hysteria that in no way is grounded in reality.
It would be nice to return to a world of peace that we have enjoyed for the past 70 years however that is just not the reality we live in anymore. This is just simply a ridiculous policy posited by the extreme left wing. And it will do nothing but embolden those that would do us great harm.
It would be nice to return to a world of peace that we have enjoyed for the past 70 years however that is just not the reality we live in anymore. This is just simply a ridiculous policy posited by the extreme left wing. And it will do nothing but embolden those that would do us great harm.
This correction is long over due. Our police have become nothing more that modern storm troopers. Of course they love all the free toys, but it does nothing to soften the attitude toward law enforcement, that now is sorely needed.
1
How about eliminating all the police exemptions in weapon restriction laws.
If the local laws restrict magazines to 10rds (California) or even 7 (NY), the police should spend enough time at the range to make those rounds count--many cops today are a danger to anyone remotely near their target.
If police want grenade launchers, they should all have to go through the ATF paperwork--police departments don't all have a sterling record in keeping track of their weapons, much less using them judiciously.
As for camouflage, there is no law against the police or anyone else owning it, but I agree that it is poor imaging, and there are utility uniforms out there in blue or black.
If the local laws restrict magazines to 10rds (California) or even 7 (NY), the police should spend enough time at the range to make those rounds count--many cops today are a danger to anyone remotely near their target.
If police want grenade launchers, they should all have to go through the ATF paperwork--police departments don't all have a sterling record in keeping track of their weapons, much less using them judiciously.
As for camouflage, there is no law against the police or anyone else owning it, but I agree that it is poor imaging, and there are utility uniforms out there in blue or black.
When the riots were in full swing in Baltimore and Ferguson, how many people were seriously or permanently injured or killed by police, as opposed to the hundred of people hurt by the rioters? It's hard to sell the police as out-of-control bullies when their the only ones showing restraint when everything falls into chaos, even while dozens of officers are being injured left and right.
I for one trust the police to handle whatever equipment they possess with restraint and competence.
I for one trust the police to handle whatever equipment they possess with restraint and competence.
"Restraint and competence" have been lacking lately among too many forces, even when officers shoot unarmed civilians with a standard sidearm.
We need to look harder at who joins the police forces. Are we getting too many PTSD-afflicted vets who have been trained to pull a trigger at the least provocation? For the first time in decades, I fear our police.
We need to look harder at who joins the police forces. Are we getting too many PTSD-afflicted vets who have been trained to pull a trigger at the least provocation? For the first time in decades, I fear our police.
Great, might as well issue them .38 special and .357 magnum revolvers and hire Barnie Fife. Ridiculous overreaction. The criminals will have better weaponry than our police.
1
Not likely in your state!
Yes. Thanks to the NRA.
While the American society is progressively militarized and violent with more people armed with all sorts of weapons, Obama is moving to "de-militarize" or "disarm" the police whose main duty is to protect the people and the society. We need better police / peace officers. The right thing to do is to raise the standards of the police: training, pay, ..... The increasingly violent and dangerous society of the U.S. needs drastic reform, and the people need a well trained police force for protection. Obama should start to reform the society first.
Every experience I've had with the local police has been helpful or good or both. However, if they all looked like Robocop or a mechanical toy with weapons ... not so sure I'd have the same opinion. FWIW ... I don't live in Chicago anymore. (Note: 2 dead and 47 wounded over the weekend in Chicago).
14
Mr. Obama has decided to "ease tensions" in poverty stricken Black communities by taking away tools law enforcement uses to keep themselves safe.
Additionally, Mr. Obama has scheduled an event in Camden NJ as his domestic "Yemen" model of how his policies are working.
America needs a new President. Badly.
Additionally, Mr. Obama has scheduled an event in Camden NJ as his domestic "Yemen" model of how his policies are working.
America needs a new President. Badly.
6
Hope FOR change.
A lot of readers are missing the issue about this initiative . Local police are well armed and manned to deal with most crimes. Do police need tanks and grenade launchers to thwart local citizens? The appropriate firepower should be engaged for the appropriate offenses in regions of criminal unrest . Arming careless trigger happy police with more powerful weapons is not practical or necessary.
5
Just don't all complain when the police is some city get overrun by violent protests and it spills out all over your town. Of course the police need to stop shooting unarmed civilians and build better relations. They also need to be equipped to enforce the constitution's protections for the majority in any American city who aren't rioting. This won't help race relations a bit but it will serve to embolden the violent majority.
3
President Obama, just like Bush, (his predecessor), and nearly every other politician, for that matter, are all masters of creating the illusion that they have our concerns, and also a handle on solving major problems that we are facing as a free society. They’re like political magicians, creating facades and putting psychological Band-Aids on severe, cultural, arterial hemorrhages.
The devil is in the details. Notice this politically motivated Public Relations solution tells us, "police departments should be barred from using federal funds to acquire items that include tracked armored vehicles, the highest-caliber firearms and ammunition, and camouflage uniforms.”
Most of the armored personnel vehicles that the police are driving around today, have tires, not tracks, so they can be driven efficiently on city streets. A majority of these vehicles were donated, not purchased from the Federal Government, as excess property left over from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
With the massive Stasi-style Operation Jade Helm 15 getting ready to fire up this summer, I find the timing of this story interesting. It is a slight of hand, similar to the National Defense Authorization Act, which included controversial provisions that virtually gut the Constitution. Under the guise of counter terrorism, it permits indefinite military detention of persons the government suspects of involvement in terrorism, including U.S. citizens arrested on American soil.
The devil is in the details. Notice this politically motivated Public Relations solution tells us, "police departments should be barred from using federal funds to acquire items that include tracked armored vehicles, the highest-caliber firearms and ammunition, and camouflage uniforms.”
Most of the armored personnel vehicles that the police are driving around today, have tires, not tracks, so they can be driven efficiently on city streets. A majority of these vehicles were donated, not purchased from the Federal Government, as excess property left over from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
With the massive Stasi-style Operation Jade Helm 15 getting ready to fire up this summer, I find the timing of this story interesting. It is a slight of hand, similar to the National Defense Authorization Act, which included controversial provisions that virtually gut the Constitution. Under the guise of counter terrorism, it permits indefinite military detention of persons the government suspects of involvement in terrorism, including U.S. citizens arrested on American soil.
2
Can I take my vote back?
2
No. But if this is what makes you want to take your vote back my guess is you didn't vote for Obama in the first place.
1
The first or second one?
As usual, Barack Obama tries to grab headlines with little effect in solving real problems, only to placate the young constituencies he likes to crack jokes to on late-night TV-shows. At least Jimmy Carter was more "principled"
The real issue is not "military-style" weapons in the hands of the Police, rather too much gang activity (and parental irresponsibility) in American cities. Gangsters have become astute in hijacking legitimate demonstrations to create confusion, steal, and - why not - settle scores with the Police.
Didn't Obama himself call these criminals, who recently caused mayhem affecting innocent people and businesses in Baltimore, thugs and thieves?
So, what does Obama do to correct this? Weaken the Police..! You go figure!
The real issue is not "military-style" weapons in the hands of the Police, rather too much gang activity (and parental irresponsibility) in American cities. Gangsters have become astute in hijacking legitimate demonstrations to create confusion, steal, and - why not - settle scores with the Police.
Didn't Obama himself call these criminals, who recently caused mayhem affecting innocent people and businesses in Baltimore, thugs and thieves?
So, what does Obama do to correct this? Weaken the Police..! You go figure!
3
Not a good idea when you look at the Biker Gang fight in Texas. The gangs today are more deadly than those of yesteryear. They attack civilians with impunity. In a sense they are more dangerous than the mafia ever was.
Unless we are prepared to have laws which make membership in gangs like MS-13 a felony and are prepared to jail these people then the policy need the heavy military hardware to deal with these gangs. These gangs are heavily armed and are a threat to any area where they are to be found.
I want the police to have the heavy military equipment need to take these gang members down
Unless we are prepared to have laws which make membership in gangs like MS-13 a felony and are prepared to jail these people then the policy need the heavy military hardware to deal with these gangs. These gangs are heavily armed and are a threat to any area where they are to be found.
I want the police to have the heavy military equipment need to take these gang members down
3
The police did take some of them down...permanently. Not enough apparently as they had 192 of these miscreants in custody, to be charged with various felonies. And....no civilians were harmed.
A small war at the local mall? How about not letting thugs have guns in the first place? That would be a better approach.
Ferguson and other communities should not be subjected to military suppression tactics now being used by local law enforcement. Paramilitary patriots like Cliven Bundy and the militia men holed up in Idaho, now that's another story.
1
"... he is grappling with the limits of his power to force changes." The trend toward more aggressive, military-style policing has gone on for at least the last three decades at the behest of voters. The war on drugs (and immigrants) sounded pretty good to voters for a long time, and the swinging pendulum of public policy eventually gave us the police departments we thought we wanted - now with visible excesses that few do want. With any luck the pendulum will swing back. It will take time.
1
"Limit" sounds like a loophole. "Eliminate" is the only workable solution. Police departments are not and should never be militarized if we value our quality of life. This cross-breeding only spells trouble, and police start to see themselves in a way they were never intended.
3
Somehow it is extremely difficult to see a Republican president making the same move. And this is yet another reason to elect Hillary Clinton as our next president. We desperately need peace in our cities and a new mind-set by police forces around the country. This is an excellent first step. Bravo, President Obama!
1
It makes sense that the same idiot who believes the American military is a danger to the world would feel the same about police. Why don't we disarm Barry's Secret Service detail to make sure they don't instigate violence against him?
2
When we know the American military would never invade a nation that posed no threat, or kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians, or torture prisoners, or otherwise do wrong. And neither would the police. Because that's how it is, here in Denial Land.
1
This ban will be mostly cosmetic, because what really needs to be done is to change the mind-set behind all that armor. It's curious that this idea was only conceived as part of an effort to "to ease tensions between law enforcement and minority communities". Does anyone in any neighborhood like to see the cops come rumbling down the street in one of those MRAP vehicles, and dressed like the warriors in some science-fiction movie?
31
If the citizens are rioting and looting my business, I'll be waiting for the police to arrive. Now, it looks like they won't be in such a hurry.
Thanks, sport. You've had years to do this.
"Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability."
- George Bernard Shaw
- George Bernard Shaw
5
Yeah that is the problem. Is anyone even listening to Obama anymore?
2
Well, he's the President of the United States of America, so yes, people listen. Whether they like it or not. That's democracy for ya.
People listen as they see fit. They don't see fit much anymore. It is Democracy when we can pick and choose how we feel and who we listen to. He is the president not the king.
I am old enough to remember the local neighborhood cop who walked the beat and said hello to the people sitting on their stoops as he went by. He carried a night stick not a gun and everyone knew his name.
They were called PEACE Officers then, not a Police FORCE.
They were called PEACE Officers then, not a Police FORCE.
12
So...you'd rather people get clubbed like baby seals with a night stick than comply with a lawful order at gunpoint? We tried that - Rodney King - and the majority of police departments took away the nightsticks. Also, cops in this country have ALWAYS had guns - all the way back to Wyatt Earp.
My DVR collection of classic television shows include the Pilot episode of "Andy Griffith".
Yeah. He would do great in Camden or Soundstown. The gang members would have a ton of respect for him. Maybe he could give them a lollipop or read them a story. I am sure they would like that.
He could also tell them that someone (like a toddler or a senior citizen) might get hurt when they spray wide areas using their automatic weapons. I bet that'd help!
Or maybe he could tell them fairy tales. Here's one. Once upon a time a long time ago, there were a bunch of bad cops who were the cause of all the worlds problems. They used heavy military equipment to kill innocent people...
Oh wait, we've all heard that one before.
He could also tell them that someone (like a toddler or a senior citizen) might get hurt when they spray wide areas using their automatic weapons. I bet that'd help!
Or maybe he could tell them fairy tales. Here's one. Once upon a time a long time ago, there were a bunch of bad cops who were the cause of all the worlds problems. They used heavy military equipment to kill innocent people...
Oh wait, we've all heard that one before.
Most of the expensive high tech equipment has been abandoned by our well trained Iraqi forces and is being operated by ISIS. Thank you US taxpayers and our weapons for profits programs.
Wasn't Obama the one who accelerated the militarization of the police departments across the country in the first place? Under Obama, Homeland Security provided BILLIONS in grant money to police departments for equipment, and Eric Holder gave away HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS more for police to acquire this equipment.
And Camden? Really? That's great that things are improving there, but the murder rate is 9 times HIGHER than the national average. You don't want to stop for gas there.
Shouldn't this article be more about the president trying to fix another one of HIS problems HE created?
And Camden? Really? That's great that things are improving there, but the murder rate is 9 times HIGHER than the national average. You don't want to stop for gas there.
Shouldn't this article be more about the president trying to fix another one of HIS problems HE created?
5
Nah, it started under Bush.
By which I mean George H.W. Bush. See the 1033 Program - Defense Logistics Agency, approved by the Pentagon in '90. Did he "accelerate it?" - certainly. But he didn't "create" it. Really the War on Drugs (quite arguably) created it, and that is a bipartisan problem that really got its first big shove from Reagan. Does that let Clinton & Obama off the hook, though? Certainly not.
By which I mean George H.W. Bush. See the 1033 Program - Defense Logistics Agency, approved by the Pentagon in '90. Did he "accelerate it?" - certainly. But he didn't "create" it. Really the War on Drugs (quite arguably) created it, and that is a bipartisan problem that really got its first big shove from Reagan. Does that let Clinton & Obama off the hook, though? Certainly not.
Are the NYT and President Obama missing something here, or am I?
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Excessive_force.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Excessive_force.html
1
That is some crazy picture!
I note the "Cabelas" cap on the young man with the light blue T-shirt. Cabelas is a famous outdoorsman supply company. How Ironic.
I note the "Cabelas" cap on the young man with the light blue T-shirt. Cabelas is a famous outdoorsman supply company. How Ironic.
1
The terrorist are licking their chops!
2
Good move, Mr. President. About time. Thank you. Now please rethink your enthusiasm for TPP and reverse that POV and campaign., too.
2
This welcome ban on military equipment must extend to all law enforcement agencies, including those at the federal level, especially the FBI. The FBI's practice of sending SWAT teams of a dozen or more men, dressed in full military regalia, including camaflouge fatigues, with combat rifles drawn, into residential neighborhoods for routine arrests, must stop.
This occurs thousands of times each year. It chills liberty, defies common sense, and endangers residents, including children. As we learned from the chase after the Boston bombers, bullets will go right through the exterior walls of wooden houses. The FBI's traditiional blue jackets with yellow lettering on the back should suffice. And such large FBI intrusions into civil society should be the exception, limited to truly dangerous situations.
This occurs thousands of times each year. It chills liberty, defies common sense, and endangers residents, including children. As we learned from the chase after the Boston bombers, bullets will go right through the exterior walls of wooden houses. The FBI's traditiional blue jackets with yellow lettering on the back should suffice. And such large FBI intrusions into civil society should be the exception, limited to truly dangerous situations.
38
Its all well until you have the next L.A. bank robbery or an active shooter(MIND YOU THE INCRISING ISIS THREAT RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOMEFRONT) at an airport for it to come back full circle.
Instead of waisting all that money in disarming police, why dont we invest in teaching tolerance for both the police and the community. Reinstate community involved policing between the communities and their police departments. Lets teach our children respect for the authorities, teachers, parents, police etc.
Don't demonize those who are the first to respond and risk their life when one has an emergency. And those officers who have violated the law prosecute them to the full extent of the same. At the end, " Can we all just get along " R. King.
"One Nation" not multiple ethnic divisions.
Peace to all.
Ramon
Instead of waisting all that money in disarming police, why dont we invest in teaching tolerance for both the police and the community. Reinstate community involved policing between the communities and their police departments. Lets teach our children respect for the authorities, teachers, parents, police etc.
Don't demonize those who are the first to respond and risk their life when one has an emergency. And those officers who have violated the law prosecute them to the full extent of the same. At the end, " Can we all just get along " R. King.
"One Nation" not multiple ethnic divisions.
Peace to all.
Ramon
1
How is demilitarizing "wasting" money? It's free to not spend money on expensive military hardware. The money-wasting is currently underway!
Oh, right, because D.A.R.E. really made an enormous difference in the idiotic War on Drugs, didn't it?
Communities have no interest in "tolerating" this nonsense, and they have every reason not to.
Also, local police would not be handling an INCRISING ISIS THREAT RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOMEFRONT. We have a whole bloated overreaching federal Department exclusively devoted to that purpose. There is, therefore, no need for police to be trained and armed for urban combat. That they are is (not surprisingly) CREATING widespread urban combat.
Nobody is "demonizing" anybody. They are disarming them. And, in case you haven't watched the news this year, it is much needed.
Communities have no interest in "tolerating" this nonsense, and they have every reason not to.
Also, local police would not be handling an INCRISING ISIS THREAT RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOMEFRONT. We have a whole bloated overreaching federal Department exclusively devoted to that purpose. There is, therefore, no need for police to be trained and armed for urban combat. That they are is (not surprisingly) CREATING widespread urban combat.
Nobody is "demonizing" anybody. They are disarming them. And, in case you haven't watched the news this year, it is much needed.
As a veteran of the National Guard I was shocked to see the amount of military equipment being used in a number of cities recently. I can see giving police excess equipment like protective masks and light arms like 9 mm pistols. In some places even M-16 rifles make sense (though not in cities, the range is far too long for use in populated locations). Equipment like armored or mine resistant vehicles probably only make sense for SWAT teams for rescue operations.
Turning the police into soldiers only isolates them from the communities they are supposed to serve. Even military police on many military bases are not as isolated from their community as some urban police forces. I have seen military police riding bikes on some military bases.
I can see pre-positioning heavier equipment for police for use in emergencies. One of the duties of the National Guard is to protect communities in emergencies. One possibility would be to store equipment for local police at local armories. The equipment would be released to police on orders of the state governor. Of course, this assumes as I said that SWAT teams have more equipment for short-term emergencies or to handle situations until the equipment could be issued.
Local police should be in the communities they serve and come from the community. Community policing has been shown to be more effective than officers hiding behind auto glass or bullet proof armor.
Turning the police into soldiers only isolates them from the communities they are supposed to serve. Even military police on many military bases are not as isolated from their community as some urban police forces. I have seen military police riding bikes on some military bases.
I can see pre-positioning heavier equipment for police for use in emergencies. One of the duties of the National Guard is to protect communities in emergencies. One possibility would be to store equipment for local police at local armories. The equipment would be released to police on orders of the state governor. Of course, this assumes as I said that SWAT teams have more equipment for short-term emergencies or to handle situations until the equipment could be issued.
Local police should be in the communities they serve and come from the community. Community policing has been shown to be more effective than officers hiding behind auto glass or bullet proof armor.
7
Agree up to a point. BUT many of the people who are involved in these ' protests ' are NOT from the communities which are doing the protesting. They are organized and filtered in to stir up trouble in the communities. Very damaging tactic for the local police to deal with.
Fine. I think Obama should also limit military style equipment for terrorists and looters and other criminals. One problem. The police will comply with Obama's limits but the terrorists, looters and other criminals will not.
7
When domestic police forces and our military become indistinguishable, we are in the process of losing what little democracy remains, and are slipping into fascism.
Our police forces are supposed to be members of the communities they serve, not an occupying army. But when given military-grade equipment, officers no longer see civilians as human beings, but as domestic insurgents. It's no wonder that officers in this nation have such a low respect for human life, such a lusty love of brutality, and little to no sense of equality under the law, or human rights.
This is a desperately needed first step. The second will be body cameras for all officers. Then a radical change in police mindset and policies.
Our police forces are supposed to be members of the communities they serve, not an occupying army. But when given military-grade equipment, officers no longer see civilians as human beings, but as domestic insurgents. It's no wonder that officers in this nation have such a low respect for human life, such a lusty love of brutality, and little to no sense of equality under the law, or human rights.
This is a desperately needed first step. The second will be body cameras for all officers. Then a radical change in police mindset and policies.
4
You watch entirely too much CNN...come ride with an inner city police officer. Your mind will be blown...
Giving Military-Style Weapons to Non-Military Authority was a mistake from the beginning. Police are trained on the use of such equipment, but not trained on Judgment. It has been said, by political analysts, that giving such weaponry to local police is like giving dangerous toys to kids. There is validity in that opinion. Any police force receiving such weaponry have always been eager to use those new "toys." The justification of such use, without proper judgment and training for when NOT to use it has, for decades, permitted police to inappropriately utilize a level of force not commensurate with the police task at hand. Lives have been disrupted and lost as a result of a a new police "Culture", of blunt life-threatening force used even before they are certain of any danger. Further, mistaken identity of so-called "suspects" have increased the danger to innocent citizens as a result of the inappropriate use of such tactics. Local police is NOT the Military, and should not behave as such. It serves to empower police to use unnecessary force and increase the personal distance between the communities and the police, where these weapons and tactics are used. Police have become recklessly dangerous as a result. We now need the return of community organizations just to "police" our Law Enforcement.
Scott E. Torquato, MS, LCSW
Scott E. Torquato, MS, LCSW
5
"...Giving Military-Style Weapons to Non-Military Authority was a mistake from the beginning. Police are trained on the use of such equipment, but not trained on Judgment. It has been said, by political analysts, that giving such weaponry to local police is like giving dangerous toys to kids. There is validity in that opinion..."
___
"It has been said, by political analysts..."
What do political analysts know about weapons?
My mother, now retired, held a Masters in Social Work, early in her career was a school counselor, had all the book sense one could want yet, not one iota of common sense.
You seem very well read.
___
"It has been said, by political analysts..."
What do political analysts know about weapons?
My mother, now retired, held a Masters in Social Work, early in her career was a school counselor, had all the book sense one could want yet, not one iota of common sense.
You seem very well read.
Things will be better when we have a President of the United States that respects law enforcement and rule of law.
10
That hasn't happened in over fifteen years.
If you want a clear picture of what is wrong with the militarization of police departments, just compare the pictures from Ferguson and Baltimore with the pictures from yesterday's incident in Waco. In the former, unarmed African American protestors faced police in Kevlar and camouflage, armed with assault rifles and grenade launchers, and backed up by MRAPS and tanks. Nearly 200 white bikers, armed with a variety of firearms and engaged in an active shooting incident, faced traditionally uniformed and armed police officers using traditional police vehicles. More than 100 guns were retrieved from the Waco site, at which at least nine people were killed and eighteen more were wounded.
Yes, property was destroyed in Ferguson and Baltimore, but no lives were lost during the protests/civil uprisings, whichever term you prefer. Property damage was limited in Waco to that caused by stray bullets, but nine people dies and eighteen more were injured. If that does not make clear what the problem is with militarization of police departments, nothing will.
Yes, property was destroyed in Ferguson and Baltimore, but no lives were lost during the protests/civil uprisings, whichever term you prefer. Property damage was limited in Waco to that caused by stray bullets, but nine people dies and eighteen more were injured. If that does not make clear what the problem is with militarization of police departments, nothing will.
2
You're rant is akin to a puppy discovering it has a tail to chase.
That is not s rant. It is a simple statement of fact. It is not necessary for a domestic police department to be an occupying army, nor was it ever the intent when local policing was created that the police be such an occupying force. It is clear that you think white bikers intent on committing murder are a much lesser threat to public safety and order than a largely minority population intent on protesting decades of unequal treatment before the law. One of the problems with this country is that we consider threats to private property to be much more serious than threats to human life, especially the lives of minorities. And before you tell me that your ancestors have been here for however long, making you a real American, consider this: Unless you are Native American, Aleut or Inuit, which means your ancestors walked across the land bridge in the Bering Sea, your ancestors came here in a boat! We are all boat people whether our ancestor landed at Plymouth Rock, Ellis Island, or the slave markets in Charleston and New Orleans. And we ll deserve police who protect us and serve us, not an occupying force who defines us as an enemy to be subdued and/or eliminated.
Too little and a little too late. Police departments have already armed themselves to the teeth, with no provisions in this "new ban" that requires them to return any of the munitions and armaments they have accumulated. Los Federales are about as ready to relinquish their automatic weapons, armor piercing bullets, tanks and grenades, as the Taliban or ISIL/ISIS are ready to throw down their arms and surrender to GWOT forces.
Nobody's talking about Los Federales. It is "Los Locales" that are being disarmed. Read the article next time.
Picture the Norman Rockwell painting of a police officer and a small boy sitting at the soda fountain. Now picture how the police officer would have looked in Rockwell's painting if attired like the ones in the Ferguson MO photo accompanying this article. Enough said.
3
We provide tanks and advanced weapons to Middle East militants free so they can defend their interests; but refuse to allow States and local governments to buy weapons to protect the interests of peaceful citizens? We need to give our law enforcement "soldier" whatever is required to prevent riots, protect businesses, and insure domestic peace. I understand that this administration think the cause of public unrest is social injustice, and abusive law enforcement.
The cure is not the removal of weapons, but rather better education, training, and ending the gulf between rich and poor. We can do it all.
The cure is not the removal of weapons, but rather better education, training, and ending the gulf between rich and poor. We can do it all.
2
Often the Police like to play Big Boy Games with our military toys.
It's better than Viagra.
Macho !
My Gun is Bigger than your gun !
It's better than Viagra.
Macho !
My Gun is Bigger than your gun !
1
Yep! The bigger the gun, the bigger the ... (the Times won't print the word). Oh, it just makes us feel so MANLY!
Too many Cop shows and cop and war movies for too many decades.
2
I'm fortunate to live in an area where the Police are still Police, not thugs. They are very helpful and reliable. I don't feel threatened by them and I know I can trust them. They are a model to me and perhaps that is why I am so critical of the militaristic overreach of bigger departments. If the police don't threaten the public with arms and fatigues, then the public won't feel threatened.
31
at least not on Long Island, in Newark , Camden , Trenton, etc. a weak police force is an invitation to attack. The kind of policing needed depends on the realities on the ground in specific communities. What works in gated communities where police are paid six figures may not work in impoverished areas where police are not paid premium wages nor required to have college degrees.
Sometimes the police become thugs because they are dealing with thugs.
Did it ever occur to you that the police attitude toward the public might be a reflection of the public's attitude toward the police? My guess is that if you or the vast majority of your neighbors were pulled over for a broken taillight, you would believe you were pulled over for your broken taillight, not overt racism.
I wonder how it might change things if law enforcement were allowed military grade protective equipment with the stipulation that it has to be Hello Kitty pink.
2
This is a good start to demilitarize the police: ban them from using federal funds to buy military grade weapons. But it should go further - it should severely limit their ability to obtain funding through civil forfeiture and make sure that those funds can't be used to buy military grade weapons either - right now an entrepreneurial police chief in Texas can buy a tank from Russia if he pleases with the funds he seized from tourists passing through his county...
3
St Marys GA has an armored hummer. Why? The only crimes in the town are drunk and disorderly during UGA-UF football week.
1
Another lovely legacy of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Turns out Republican President Eisenhower was right about the military industrial complex taking over our country.
Turns out Republican President Eisenhower was right about the military industrial complex taking over our country.
4
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1775
8
"...President Obama on Monday will ban the federal provision of some types of military-style equipment to local police departments and sharply restrict the availability of others, administration officials said..."
___
"Under every stone lurks a politician."
- Aristophanes (450 BC - 388 BC)
___
"Under every stone lurks a politician."
- Aristophanes (450 BC - 388 BC)
I think you can bet your bottom dollar that the first people to adopt military style weapons etc were the criminal element. Witness the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery of 1997 where the cops came up against full auto assault rifles and home-made bulletproof vests. Let's not forget it is often superior firepower that decides the outcome of an encounter with determined criminals who have nothing to lose.
If regular beat cops have nothing but their sidearms and a pump gun to rely on and have to wait around for a SWAT style unit to arrive then you can bet lives will be endangered. Cops may not need camo uniforms but they should have ready access to high velocity long guns. Very often a shotgun and sidearms won't cut it. You just never know what you're going to come up against these days.
If regular beat cops have nothing but their sidearms and a pump gun to rely on and have to wait around for a SWAT style unit to arrive then you can bet lives will be endangered. Cops may not need camo uniforms but they should have ready access to high velocity long guns. Very often a shotgun and sidearms won't cut it. You just never know what you're going to come up against these days.
25
How will the police at the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco be armed this week? Will they have to consider the ethnicity of the combatant before selecting their offensive/defensive (essentially the same thing) weapons?
In a community riddled with cartel violence, I'm a little offended that my safety seems to be of no concern to Obama.
In a community riddled with cartel violence, I'm a little offended that my safety seems to be of no concern to Obama.
You would lose your bottom dollar. The first people to adopt them were the military.
Home-made bulletproof vests? That wouldn't really be "military style," now would it?
If superior firepower is required, we can send the militia (i.e. National Guard, etc.) That's what they exist for. And, you know, it's okay to call in a "SWAT style unit" for a SWAT style job. Nobody sends the "regular beat cops" to those busts. They send SWAT.
Home-made bulletproof vests? That wouldn't really be "military style," now would it?
If superior firepower is required, we can send the militia (i.e. National Guard, etc.) That's what they exist for. And, you know, it's okay to call in a "SWAT style unit" for a SWAT style job. Nobody sends the "regular beat cops" to those busts. They send SWAT.
Different issue but just as important. Between the NRA, the gun black market, and the paranoia feed via media and entertainment, I don't see the well armed public (and especially cartels/gangs) being addressed meaningfully or realistically.
High time for this. We have too many cops right out of the military who think they are still in Ramadi.
Districts can share resources, including a SWAT unit, if real trouble erupts. I look forward to seeing officers wearing ties and keeping the shotgun, let alone the AR-15, back in the squad car.
Districts can share resources, including a SWAT unit, if real trouble erupts. I look forward to seeing officers wearing ties and keeping the shotgun, let alone the AR-15, back in the squad car.
3
Cannot believe how many comments here miss the point. Access to federal equipment and support breeds a willingness to accept federal direction and control. Only yesterday in Waco, Texas, a grassroots organizational effort by citizen activists to prepare to resist a possible federal takeover of the state by the military under the guise of a training operation know as Jade Helm 15 was broken up by law enforcement personnel, quite possibly under orders from Washington, D.C. Seducing police departments by providing equipment generates a willingness to go along to continue access. When local bikers organize to lead citizen resistance they are repressed through sanctioned violence. Texas law enforcement has become part of the federal effort to control the state.
1
Let me get this straight: You're claiming that Texas' government has now turned stalinist, because Texas cops broke up what looks like rioting biker gangs, but was actually a patriotic demonstration against a secret Obama plot to take over the Texas government.
Okay, that makes perfect sense. I bet I can guess your views on creating an all-white paradise in the Northwest.
Okay, that makes perfect sense. I bet I can guess your views on creating an all-white paradise in the Northwest.
interesting way to describe a war between two criminal motorcycle gangs.
What is the federal government trying to control in Texas? What's going on in Texas that isn't going on in, say, Missouri or Minnesota? I'm just asking.
Obama should also force local police departments to post their duty rosters and patrol areas to make it easier for criminals to commit crime. Let's also let ISIS know when the police will be relieved of their heavy duty equipment so they can plan properly.
7
This is just because they realize the police are waking up in droves to the tyranny of the federal/global govt. In the event of a war all this equipment would end up in the hands of those who oppose tyranny.
The military style vehicles are only used to respond to certain armed robberies, bank robberies, hostage situations and potential terrorist incidents. My local precinct has one that the ESU uses borough-wide in those situations. I'm glad it's there.
7
Will the cops have to give back any of the military gear?
15 ywears of this has made them an army, withing the civilian population.
Hiring military vets, trained to fear and subdue the population, as changed policiing.
With those approaches and those weapons the populace is feared and mistreated.
Give back those big guns.
15 ywears of this has made them an army, withing the civilian population.
Hiring military vets, trained to fear and subdue the population, as changed policiing.
With those approaches and those weapons the populace is feared and mistreated.
Give back those big guns.
4
there was no "Big guns".
The 55 shootings in Baltimore since the riots, none involving the police, will be addressed by this pointless announcement? The motorcycle gang murderous riot in Waco will be ameliorated by this edict from the master of irrelevant gestures? Will the Black on Black holocaust on Chicago's streets be effected by this pandering pronouncement? No? Maybe for Democrats lives really don't matter, just feeling self-righteous and superior is all that matters.
The irrational and hysterical liberal Democrat war on the police, the military, reason and western civilization continues.
The irrational and hysterical liberal Democrat war on the police, the military, reason and western civilization continues.
5
Amen....
The real "arms race" is not just between nations, but between law enforcement and armed criminals. Obama does not care or understand that disarming the former will only embolden the latter. On the other hand, he is determined to allow a criminal state like Iran, which vows to destroy their neighbors. to enjoy nuclear weapons in a world of delusion that so doing will make them more moderate. And is surprised when their neighbors feel threatened and promise to arm themselves with like weapons. Then again, Fast and Furious was the same reasoning, or rather lack of it.
2
I grew up in the 60's hearing about WWII from my parents. At that time a police state was considered antithetical to a free democratic society. This was the general consensus, not a "left wing" perspective.
Since 9/11 we have embraced our rapid evolution to becoming a police state. Supposedly the purpose was to protect "us" from terrorists. In practice, the adoption of the Glock, stop and frisk, the inequitable over enforcement of revenue raising infractions and the absurd introduction of military weapons to civil police departments has resulted in a war upon African Americans. Those of you who think this is "not racist" but a war on criminals have completely lost sight of civility and humanity along with reality. The excessive use of the police to control Americans, along with the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court, will result in the end of freedom and democracy for everyone.
Since 9/11 we have embraced our rapid evolution to becoming a police state. Supposedly the purpose was to protect "us" from terrorists. In practice, the adoption of the Glock, stop and frisk, the inequitable over enforcement of revenue raising infractions and the absurd introduction of military weapons to civil police departments has resulted in a war upon African Americans. Those of you who think this is "not racist" but a war on criminals have completely lost sight of civility and humanity along with reality. The excessive use of the police to control Americans, along with the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court, will result in the end of freedom and democracy for everyone.
16
Thank you Laura, well said.
Whatever military equipment, police departments have received should be returned. Let the military industrial complex deal with the equipment they no longer can utilize in the on going war on terror both abroad and in the good ol' USA. I suggest they use them to guard the compounds of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Hill who propogated this endless war on terror.
5
Im slightly confused by your comments. Did you miss 9/11? Or the fact that their are members of Isis in and being recruited from our own country. Young teenage girls being lured into becoming their "wives" which is actually just jargon for sexual slavery? You may not like the war but it has some validity. They dont show the positive side of it in the news. But I know many soldiers or previous soldiers who have fought over there where the people were thanking them. The enemy/news is also very good at portraying some stories like "civilian casualties" that were completely fabricated lies. But no one likes to listen they here what the news tells them and look no further. The entire country is corrupted and if things dont change were screwed if we arent already.
Just don't see how the President can find the time in his schedule given all the foreign and domestic (economic, serious drug abuse) to be so concerned with limiting equipment for the Police. "Redefine policing".......? I'm not suggesting that the Police always call it right because they don't. But their job is extremely difficult and dangerous one and the President should be spending more time reaching out to the other side of the aisle in his lame-duck Presidency to get some real laws that benefit all Americans passed for a change!
3
Reaching out to the republican obstruction experts really would be a waste of time, Steve.
Are all those agencies that received the now-forbidden equipment going to be forced to return it? They certainly should be.
3
Who in the world would authorize bayonets or grenade launchers to the local police...?
2
His name is Barack Obama. He authorized it all in the first place.
Police officers need appropriate weapons, but not equipment inappropriate to the particular community. The program that dumped surplus military equipment into ill-prepared and untrained communities was a sham. It contributed to an asymmetric situation in which local police are not trained in small unit tactics and National Guard troops are seen as and sometimes act as invaders in communities they do not understand.
12
I'm for removing ALL guns from America. The public, the cops, everyone. Make owning one a capitol offense with no appeal, give the police and anyone who is a scaredy-cat a handheld taser of sorts. Disarm everyone and end the gun mentality that is ruining our country. Guns have turned my country into a nation of cowards..."I just want to be ready" says the gun-toting local. They will carry a gun to "be ready" but do they plan for other contingencies as well? Do you keep your gas tank full? How about bringing an umbrella with you in case of rain? How is your savings for retirement? How "ready" are you really? I feel that if we want to plan and "be ready' we should plan on the side of caution and be ready to spread some love instead of violence. Just a thought.
8
As a criminal I don't want guns I the hands of the public. Thank you Obama for castrating the only hope citizens have for help. The police.
I was living in Boston when the terrorists attacked the Marathon. In the days following the attack I was amazed at the amount of firepower that arrived on the streets almost immediately. It seemed like every small town PD showed up with automatic weapons, MOLLE gear, and some even had the dreaded armored vehicles.
After my surprise wore off my first thought was not to take these tools from the hands of the police, after all they were hunting an unknown number of people who had set off bombs. The kneejerk reaction of 'the community' to complain when this type of equipment shows up in response to widespread arson and looting shows that ulterior motives may be at work. If you don't want this stuff in your neighborhoods, don't give the cops an excuse to deploy it. Don't riot.
After my surprise wore off my first thought was not to take these tools from the hands of the police, after all they were hunting an unknown number of people who had set off bombs. The kneejerk reaction of 'the community' to complain when this type of equipment shows up in response to widespread arson and looting shows that ulterior motives may be at work. If you don't want this stuff in your neighborhoods, don't give the cops an excuse to deploy it. Don't riot.
30
Uh?.........the riots occur because of the actions of the police.
1
Amen...
That's an easy stance to take, but it ignores the systematic segregation and destructive consequences of decades of government-sanctioned -- at every level -- undermining of communities of color nationwide.
We didn't need armored personnel carriers and tanks when Tim McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Yes, people do horrible things. Like white bikers in Texas shooting up a bar parking lot. However, we don't need to respond to every single incident of violence as a foreign attack. Even if we'd had all the tanks in the world on the ground on 9/11, that wouldn't have done a darn thing to stop the attacks.
We've spent 14 years fear-mongering based on one horrible day. Isn't it enough? We've spent 35 years waging a War on Drugs on our own citizens. Isn't it enough? We've spent 35 years waging a war on the middle class, and we've given the rich the tools to use a militarized police force to put down any uprising, anywhere, at any time. Isn't it enough?
We have two choices: Either let fear dictate policy, or have the courage to face an unknown future with our heads up.
It seems like at every possible turn, we as a society and nation choose fear.
This was once a great democracy. It really was, highly imperfect thought it may have been. What is it now? A fascist corporate oligarchy masquerading as the global voice of the righteous? The worst, most frustrating part, is that we, as citizens, give away power over our lives piece by piece every single day.
We didn't need armored personnel carriers and tanks when Tim McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Yes, people do horrible things. Like white bikers in Texas shooting up a bar parking lot. However, we don't need to respond to every single incident of violence as a foreign attack. Even if we'd had all the tanks in the world on the ground on 9/11, that wouldn't have done a darn thing to stop the attacks.
We've spent 14 years fear-mongering based on one horrible day. Isn't it enough? We've spent 35 years waging a War on Drugs on our own citizens. Isn't it enough? We've spent 35 years waging a war on the middle class, and we've given the rich the tools to use a militarized police force to put down any uprising, anywhere, at any time. Isn't it enough?
We have two choices: Either let fear dictate policy, or have the courage to face an unknown future with our heads up.
It seems like at every possible turn, we as a society and nation choose fear.
This was once a great democracy. It really was, highly imperfect thought it may have been. What is it now? A fascist corporate oligarchy masquerading as the global voice of the righteous? The worst, most frustrating part, is that we, as citizens, give away power over our lives piece by piece every single day.
1
A most disturbing image was police having their weapons trained on unarmed citizens as is in the image shown in this article. The man is clearly unarmed with his hands raised. There are 5 cops it shows facing him, they all have on gas masks, and dressed for combat with high power weapons trained on him. If they wanted to by sheer force they could take him down. But it seems as if these cops have "war" on their minds, not protect and serve, looking for the "kill".
This image was shown around the world, America's democratic hypocrisy...
This image was shown around the world, America's democratic hypocrisy...
6
And therein lies the magic, and the mayhem, of photography. We're horrified by what appears to be overwhelming military-style force being trained on an unarmed surrendering civilian. Maybe it is. But we don't know what happened seconds before the shutter was clicked. We don't know the full scene outside this narrow telephoto frame. Investing your faith in a photograph is foolish.
Signed,
- A Photographer
Signed,
- A Photographer
Forty-nine people were shot in Chicago this past weekend, all by other citizens, none by police. Not included in this total is the gunfire that pierced an ambulance while paramedics were treating a victim. It's ramping up to be a record year for shootings here, nearly all of which have and will occur in the same confined neighborhoods.
What was that about "oppression "? I sure wish somebody would "oppress" the people shooting-up their neighborhoods. So do their residents.
What was that about "oppression "? I sure wish somebody would "oppress" the people shooting-up their neighborhoods. So do their residents.
1
Thank you, Mr. President!
For acting presidential and looking out for our citizens.
For acting presidential and looking out for our citizens.
5
Putting the cart in front of the horse, sorry to say.
As long as the NRA wields the power that it has and as long as we insist on bearing arms in this world (today), our problems will only get worse. The current (inadequate) gun laws are not even enforced with the highest efficiency.
Weakening law enforcement because of bad behavior will also result in criminals continuing to "out-gun" law enforcement.
As long as the NRA wields the power that it has and as long as we insist on bearing arms in this world (today), our problems will only get worse. The current (inadequate) gun laws are not even enforced with the highest efficiency.
Weakening law enforcement because of bad behavior will also result in criminals continuing to "out-gun" law enforcement.
2
What the Fed needs to do is pass an Act that Convicts Law Officers and Prosecutors for Treason if they utilize Perjury whilst denying ANYONE their Civil Rights.
Steer clear of Steuben County, Indiana, (don't even stop for gas). This little county averages over 10,000 Citations/Violations per year and nly has a population of less than 34,000. Approximately half a million dollars a year finds it's way into the local General Fund.
i wish some enterprising Reporter would investigate and gleam the court's records and expose this ongoing travesty of injustice.
Steer clear of Steuben County, Indiana, (don't even stop for gas). This little county averages over 10,000 Citations/Violations per year and nly has a population of less than 34,000. Approximately half a million dollars a year finds it's way into the local General Fund.
i wish some enterprising Reporter would investigate and gleam the court's records and expose this ongoing travesty of injustice.
1
I do not see how this changes any of the current problems local communities and police forces are facing. If I am remembering correctly, the recent deaths were from a handgun, choke-hold, handgun, and spinal injury. None of the high profile cases that have ignited the nation included any of the militarized equipment.
When crowds of people are flipping cop cars and lighting them on fire, the police can't just send another cruiser in. "Well they flipped Jeff's car, but maybe mine is heavier." They need larger and up-armored vehicles to stop these situations. It thankfully does not happen often, but in the case of a well armed criminal, or group of criminals, it is imperative that the police are better armed. It does not make sense in my mind that a better armed police force increases crime. It logically should deter crime if criminals know that the police will always be better armed. Currently a criminal can be almost as well, and in some cases better, armed than the police.
Racial discrimination by police forces is a completely separate issue from the militarization of the police. It should not be linked, but should be addressed. If these issues continue to remain linked, then we will not see a better sense of community between locals and police forces anytime soon.
When crowds of people are flipping cop cars and lighting them on fire, the police can't just send another cruiser in. "Well they flipped Jeff's car, but maybe mine is heavier." They need larger and up-armored vehicles to stop these situations. It thankfully does not happen often, but in the case of a well armed criminal, or group of criminals, it is imperative that the police are better armed. It does not make sense in my mind that a better armed police force increases crime. It logically should deter crime if criminals know that the police will always be better armed. Currently a criminal can be almost as well, and in some cases better, armed than the police.
Racial discrimination by police forces is a completely separate issue from the militarization of the police. It should not be linked, but should be addressed. If these issues continue to remain linked, then we will not see a better sense of community between locals and police forces anytime soon.
2
"None of the high profile cases that have ignited the nation included any of the militarized equipment."
Take a look at the picture of that accompanies the story and ask yourself that question again.
Take a look at the picture of that accompanies the story and ask yourself that question again.
The police are hardly being disarmed as some have suggested. The police have plenty of weapons of the latest variety and protective equipment. But American citizens are not insurgents to be suppressed.
The police serve us as part of the community not as an occupying alien force such as our troops in Iraq. The primary responsibility of the police is to serve the public's need for peace and lawfulness with minimum force not maximum.
They certainly now have all the firepower and technology necessary to engage violent criminals an activity that is only tiny fraction of their time.
We need to address the human factor in policing and reconsider the types of people we select to train as police more so than we need light infantry patrolling the streets.
The police serve us as part of the community not as an occupying alien force such as our troops in Iraq. The primary responsibility of the police is to serve the public's need for peace and lawfulness with minimum force not maximum.
They certainly now have all the firepower and technology necessary to engage violent criminals an activity that is only tiny fraction of their time.
We need to address the human factor in policing and reconsider the types of people we select to train as police more so than we need light infantry patrolling the streets.
3
Good decision by the president.
6
Isis thanks you for your comment
1
The fraud of militarized police departments was revealed during the Columbine High School shooting when the local police department's heavily armed SWAT team refused (out of fear, apparently) to enter the school and confront the killers Klebold and Harris. All that equipment was useless at the moment of truth.
The Obama administration shouldn't just be prohibiting future sales of military equipment, but should be confiscating what local police departments already have.
The Obama administration shouldn't just be prohibiting future sales of military equipment, but should be confiscating what local police departments already have.
6
President Obama is right, police should gain the citizen's confidence, not terrorize them.
Police is not an anti-terrorism special force and have no reason to have military equipment as the picture clearly shows: military boots, machine guns pointed at body level, anti-gas mask, bullet-proof jackets.
All this against unarmed people to show their aggressive behavior, but not their courage.
USA is not Afghanistan and if they like to play war, enrollments for Afghanistan are still open.
Police need a mass federal retraining to verify if they can still do the job and to learn to the positively selected officers how to keep the public order respecting persons' civil and human rights.
Police is not an anti-terrorism special force and have no reason to have military equipment as the picture clearly shows: military boots, machine guns pointed at body level, anti-gas mask, bullet-proof jackets.
All this against unarmed people to show their aggressive behavior, but not their courage.
USA is not Afghanistan and if they like to play war, enrollments for Afghanistan are still open.
Police need a mass federal retraining to verify if they can still do the job and to learn to the positively selected officers how to keep the public order respecting persons' civil and human rights.
5
The police are not an anti-terrorism force? Who stopped the terrorist attack in Garland, Texas?
1
Mass Federal retraining...do you realize what you're saying? If you live in a low crime, high income state like New Hampshire or Washington...You want your cops trained the same way as cops who work in Chicago? We have learned with education and the federal DOE that this isn't the way to go. States have their own governments because that's how our country was established. Why is it imperative to have the feds run everything? I know fed cops..You think your local police are tyrants...You're probably being tracked by a federal agency right now and don't even know it.
This is unfortunate. There are no incidents where anyone was killed or injured due to the use of this equipment. It reinforces false perceptions.
Many incidents where civilians or police were killed or injured or where criminals were not apprehended were due at least in part due to a lack of respect for law enforcement.
Obama's actions further erode respect for law enforcement and perpetuate the lie that law enforcement is a major cause of senseless injury and death.
Many incidents where civilians or police were killed or injured or where criminals were not apprehended were due at least in part due to a lack of respect for law enforcement.
Obama's actions further erode respect for law enforcement and perpetuate the lie that law enforcement is a major cause of senseless injury and death.
7
I was actually thinking the same thing when I read this. Obama is getting rid of them now amidst all these problems acting like these weapons were used in these situations. In all of the most recent police conflicts, the police used their standard issue sidearm or their bare hands. No military weapons were used to cause any of these problems.
Great! About time. Military-Style equipment belong in a combat zone, not the home turf. If the Police feel they have a need of such equipment to maintain law and order, then it's time to go back into training. They should be re-trained to become an ace shooter with conventional arms. One does'nt have to put multiple bullets to bring down a civilian who is suspect. Every profession needs a refresher course to be current in their field. The Police should not be an exception. Strict Gun Laws should be enacted. The root cause is the NRA and the Gun Lobby. The Police should be in the fore-front to fight these predators. It will protect the Officers and the Civilians alike while not getting into panic situations.
5
Bad move. Nothing will satisfy the race baiters but disarming the police and eliminating their power of arrest. Even then, they'd quickly grow angry unless you also cleared the jails.
4
The guy has a hand bag realy this looks like over kill to me not a bomb, America is not Irac and I thought the military could not police the streets isn't this in the constitution
2
I guess this is a better late than never scenario. But being an Obama Cynic, I suspect he's doing this now because everyone is already armed to the teeth. The next thing he will propose will be to keep those military weapons running in the coming years...afterall, they were given them and we shouldn't let them go to waste.
I marched in Chicago against NATO a couple of years ago and was stunned at the display of arms and weapons aimed at those of us who peacefully marched. You know, we white haired 70 year olds and young families carrying children on their shoulders. And the ONLY problems I witnessed the entire afternoon occurred when a handful of protestors were provoked by the militarized police. What a disgrace.
I marched in Chicago against NATO a couple of years ago and was stunned at the display of arms and weapons aimed at those of us who peacefully marched. You know, we white haired 70 year olds and young families carrying children on their shoulders. And the ONLY problems I witnessed the entire afternoon occurred when a handful of protestors were provoked by the militarized police. What a disgrace.
61
Chicago? Isn't that where Obama and Hillary are from?
That would be the ant-NATO demonstrations that were followed by the arrest and conviction of 3 anarchists for making and preparing to use explosive devices? No cause for alarm, I guess.
Three poorly educated individuals who were clearly entrapped by the government does not a bomb make.
1
Most seem to blame the local police districts for using inappropriate equipment. I don't see it that way. The heaviest of the military equipment was most useful against violent protestors. And protestors were most likely to turn violent in poor urban neighborhoods. So the administration knew or should have known that they were militarizing police resistance to such protesters. Had no such equipment been distributed no local police force would have used it. The Feds created the problem and should have known. Pretending it all falls on the Ferguson police is dishonest. What happened to the buck stops here?
1
This reform is long overdue. Our police is suppose to serve and protect us, not to rule through intimidation and fear.
5
Wow that photo. Looks like Ferguson being raided by Delta Force.
3
As a non-white, non-black, no-religious-affiliation, hard-working American, I have to ask this question: does the entire law and order debate revolve around the black community (euphemistically called "minorities", although they seem to be the majority in many communities)?
Does anyone read the statistics on violent crime? and the prevalence of violent crime in specific areas and cities? Yet, it seems that the President is taking decisions based on the views of a single group of activists - without considering the safety of the rest of us.
Does anyone read the statistics on violent crime? and the prevalence of violent crime in specific areas and cities? Yet, it seems that the President is taking decisions based on the views of a single group of activists - without considering the safety of the rest of us.
8
I'm white and my family's white. And we don't feel safer because the police are dressed and armed as though this is Tikrit. Not at all.
Freedom is the price they want you to pay in exchange for "perceived" security.
3
The Mayor of Baltimore was on that "task force"...you know, the woman who told the public it was okay to destroy Baltimore and forced the police to stand down as they did so. SURE, I trust her opinion.
That said, I never liked the idea of militarizing the police and I don't like federal funding of police.
As always with the NY Times, these days, the story is based on a half-truth that there was trouble with several local police departments. Actually, Obama, holder and outside agitators, aided by a lazy press which did not do its homework, created phony issues and protests. These trumped up events were then used to justify federal intervention. But, by all means, leave out the important stuff, nY Times.
At any rate, get the feds out of our local departments and things will be Better. Baltimore's police dept if fully integrated and has been enjoying black leadership for decades.
That said, I never liked the idea of militarizing the police and I don't like federal funding of police.
As always with the NY Times, these days, the story is based on a half-truth that there was trouble with several local police departments. Actually, Obama, holder and outside agitators, aided by a lazy press which did not do its homework, created phony issues and protests. These trumped up events were then used to justify federal intervention. But, by all means, leave out the important stuff, nY Times.
At any rate, get the feds out of our local departments and things will be Better. Baltimore's police dept if fully integrated and has been enjoying black leadership for decades.
1
I am shocked and saddened by the number of commenters writing against this measure. Since the invention of the SWAT team, American police have become more and more militarized. 9/11 accelerated this process to the point where police are indistinguishable from soldiers--they don't even wear badges, anymore! Add in all the reserve and national guard that are also police, and saw multiple deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we are essentially being policed by the military. It's Orwellian.
7
Oh no. One more step in the plan to limit the power of the states so the federal government can take over the country under Dictator Obama. Better not tell anyone in Texas. They have enough to worry about what with the army already invading.
1
Military says no problem, we'll just sell to folks overseas so they can use it all to kill us in 10-20 years.
1
So that's how loyal they are, huh?
Great. That's one step away from becoming a Totalitarian government, keeping the hungry, uneducated, jobless populace at bay with the threat of death. Now to tackle the hungry, uneducated, jobless part....
2
Bad idea. I remember routine stories in the 80's and 90's about how police were being outgunned by gangs and other criminals. Depriving our law enforcement of the weaponry they request will be looked back on as a tragic error.
4
I see your point, but something not mentioned in the article is that these purchases of military equipment also came at a time when almost all police forces have been suffering budget cuts and massive officer layoffs, pay cuts and furloughs. See for example http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/Default.asp?Item=2602, or try a search for "police cuts." If we have to choose (as seems to be the case) I think it is more efficient putting that money and effort into maintaining full police forces with decent pay, benefits and training.
I think that the key sentence in the article may be "more stringent requirements for training and information collection for departments that acquire [military-style equipment.]" You should not be using military equipment without military training, and combining undermanned, underpaid and undertrained forces with high-grade weapons always looked as a terrible idea.
I think that the key sentence in the article may be "more stringent requirements for training and information collection for departments that acquire [military-style equipment.]" You should not be using military equipment without military training, and combining undermanned, underpaid and undertrained forces with high-grade weapons always looked as a terrible idea.
I think people are overlooking the fact that the police are not trained to use military equipment properly and that the police aren't supposed to be exercising this much force to begin with. If that equipment becomes necessary, the police have already failed. The police are supposed to deescalate, rather than escalate. If the police fail and the equipment that is being taken away becomes necessary, then it's more legitimate and desirable for the National Guard to be using it instead.
That's what the National Guard is supposed to do anyway, it's supposed to restore order when the police cannot. I'd feel much more comfortable with the National Guard restoring order, because they have the training necessary to minimize human suffering and because it ensures that military force is a temporary thing rather than a permanent thing.
That's what the National Guard is supposed to do anyway, it's supposed to restore order when the police cannot. I'd feel much more comfortable with the National Guard restoring order, because they have the training necessary to minimize human suffering and because it ensures that military force is a temporary thing rather than a permanent thing.
160
Yes, they are trained. PD's do not purchase equipment that they're officers are not qualified to use.
my son is in the National Guard. He is 21 and has one hour range time with his M-16
The National Guard is a trained Military organization at the disposal of the Governor of each state. Firstly and foremost they are a military organization. They are called in not because the cops have failed but because they are overwhelmed by civil unrest and rioting. They then become the line of last defense and their orders are to not allow anyone to come within a certain distance of them. If a large group of people comes toward them their orders are to take what ever means necessary to stop them, including opening fire. And, every one knows that. That is why peace was restored in Baltimore.
Another meaningless and pointless gesture by this President that panders to the extreme, hysterical and ignorant left of his base yet, it is an uncritical lead story at the Times. This from a man that lives with his family in a virtual fortress guarded by heavily armed guards. When will he address the terrible Black on Black violence that afflicts African-American communities? Since the riots in Baltimore there have been about 55 shootings in the city. None involved the police. Perhaps Obama might act on that and issue some imperial pronouncement.
4
Obama has spoken frequently about black on black violence in the country. Just because you think he hasn't doesn't mean he hasn't.
American Police "Forces" are now full of seasoned military veterans trained to kill and break down doors and repress a population. Even if you remove the hardware from the equation, the war veterans are still within the ranks of the police and more dangerous and contrary to all concepts of American freedom.
It is the Policemen that matter, not the hardware.
It is the Policemen that matter, not the hardware.
1
Great news. Our local police forces have been armed like, and behaving like occupying forces for too long.
It's frustrating and sad when you watch local police more excited and spending more time dressing up and playing army man than they do getting out into the community and policing. Local supposedly community officers seem to like spending more time in quasi war games, big guns in hand, than anything else.
Let's take this demilitarization and teach officers to get back into their communities. Then, if the officers don't like it, or want to get back into their communities, there's always one of the service branches.
It's frustrating and sad when you watch local police more excited and spending more time dressing up and playing army man than they do getting out into the community and policing. Local supposedly community officers seem to like spending more time in quasi war games, big guns in hand, than anything else.
Let's take this demilitarization and teach officers to get back into their communities. Then, if the officers don't like it, or want to get back into their communities, there's always one of the service branches.
6
It is wrong for a billion reasons to militarize local USA police, but I suspect this was more about federal-level accountants, spending, inventory, and budgets than about turning our local cops into Terminators.
1
Accountants are reviewed by policy makers; inventory isn't shipped on its own. Ample evidence around the world shows what happens when military-grade fire power is put in local hands: an itch develops to use it--its ego pull is strong, esp. for forces already in love violence as a crime fighting strategy.
Everyone, at every level, including local, knew exactly what they were doing and what they were getting. This was not an opps, it was a bang! Bang! Against local "low-lifes." Sign here, we ship!
Everyone, at every level, including local, knew exactly what they were doing and what they were getting. This was not an opps, it was a bang! Bang! Against local "low-lifes." Sign here, we ship!
3
W, I dont disagree with you about the troubling results of this debacle but on the other hand -- policy-makers at the broadest federal govt level rarely know what the bean-counters are actually doing and why they are doing it. Anyone working at a larger corporation sees how inventory is one of the worst things to manage accurately.
You didn't mention the principals, weapons manufacturers and their agents holding elective office in congress. Them that's making money out of the trade.
For all of you who rail about villains, thugs, and general evil-doers being heavily armed vis-a-vis the police that until they actually commit crimes with said weapons they are merely ordinary citizens exercising our Second Amendment rights. And anyone seeking to exercise those rights, no matter where they may live or what race they are, should not be threatened or intimidated by militarized police or SWAT teams collecting parking tickets and library fines. Even in yesterday's dust-up in WACO it appears officers using standard side-arms and rifles were able to subdue the equivalent of several platoons of bikers without recourse to a single armored vehicle. And one wonders how many of those shot by the police were simply exercising their legitimate right to go armed in a public place or to defend themselves when attacked. Or does the status of "biker" mean you lose your right of self-defense? I hope Governor Abbott speaks out on behalf of those citizens whose rights may have been violated by aggressive police action.
5
The Duck Theory:
If it waddles like a duck, if it quacks like a duck and is seen in the company of ducks...then it usually is a duck.
If it waddles like a duck, if it quacks like a duck and is seen in the company of ducks...then it usually is a duck.
1
I've taken notice of your whimsical musing on alleged "aggressive police action," but I'm missing the part of your screed that exhibits even the slightest concern for the safety of citizens innocently in a public parking lot dodging the bullets from someone exercising their Second Amendment rights.
If the police are going to possess military weapons, then so should the average citizen. I'm dismayed that the NRA has been sitting on its hands on this for so long. Tanks, grenades, bombs and rockets don't kill people, it's ... it's ... Ah, yes, it's liberals and their ilk who refuse to spend the household budget on bazookas who kill people.
19
Nice try, but the average NRA member, like me, is not in favor of police militarization. It is just the sort of thing that inspired the writing of the second amendment in the first place.
I think you have mistaken the chicken for the egg. Civilian law enforcement has been forced into an “arms race” with the NRA backed gun proliferation proponents. When answering the most frequent domestic disturbance, local police are never sure anymore what kind of arsenal they might encounter. Then, as we’ve just seen, there are the “well armed” biker gangs with which they have to deal. I’m not so sure that unilateral disarmament of our local law enforcement is a real good idea.
Weapons control for the police isn't a bad idea but what about banning automatic weapons, AK47's etc. for the public?
235
They are banned. You confuse semi-automatic firearms (the same mechanism as in many hunting rifles and shotguns used for a hundred years) with assault rifles which are fully automatic and have been highly restricted since the 1930s.
You have been fooled into supporting bans on scary looking forearms not real assault rifles. The ridiculousness of this and the fact that millions of hunters use semi-automatic weapons is the reason why gun control is the third rail of American politics and the NRA keeps growing.
You have been fooled into supporting bans on scary looking forearms not real assault rifles. The ridiculousness of this and the fact that millions of hunters use semi-automatic weapons is the reason why gun control is the third rail of American politics and the NRA keeps growing.
17
They are banned. They exist legally in semi-automatic mode. The rest is illegal stuff. Just like in Sinaloas, Chihuahua etc.
2
So let's ban semi-automatic weapons too. They're not just scary-looking, Michael S., they are very very scary machines designed to kill human beings.
1
Liberals work day and night to make sure those who accept the responsibility for enforcing law and maintaining order are undertrained, undersupported and underequiped.
19
So who exactly is the enemy that you think law enforcement is using their military equipment against? Police are not on a field of battle, they are serving local communities both large and small. They don't need to be driving armored vehicles through neighborhoods, wearing camouflage like the military. As the wife of a police chief, who has been in law enforcement for 30 years, neither of us see the necessity for militarizing local police departments. He's more proactive and has made it a point for his officers to get to know the people of the community through many community activities and forums so that a level of trust is built, and respect is shown. He has no use for those officers that come with a mindset that the public is the enemy. His department is trained and equipped with the necessary tools to perform their job, but it doesn't include looking and/or behaving like soldiers gearing up for battle.
Take a look at the picture to the left and tell me what you see.
When I first saw the picture in this article, I was like "Dang!? What did this guy do that needs six full-armed soldiers to have their guns pointed at him?"
When police have such military-style equipment, the boundary and differences between police and soldiers become indistinguishable, that is, if they even exist. Police and the army are essentially two different roles in our society. Police is supposed to be closer to the people and maintain order only, while the army is out of our borders defending our country. A soldier-like image of the policemen would generate more fear in the society, and thus create more hostility. Minimizing the equipment of policemen would help create a better relationship between the police with power and the regular citizens.
When police have such military-style equipment, the boundary and differences between police and soldiers become indistinguishable, that is, if they even exist. Police and the army are essentially two different roles in our society. Police is supposed to be closer to the people and maintain order only, while the army is out of our borders defending our country. A soldier-like image of the policemen would generate more fear in the society, and thus create more hostility. Minimizing the equipment of policemen would help create a better relationship between the police with power and the regular citizens.
150
We have been overwhelmed, and inured, with pictures and videos of soldiers dressed, and armed, like this--from all over the world. I wonder if these police are enamored of the image of the tough guy, testosterone driven video warrior, who can pretty much do anything he wants. Is that Ferguson or Ramadi? What a frightening photo!
"Dang!? What did this guy do that needs six full-armed soldiers to have their guns pointed at him?"
My bet is they're going right past him. One drawback of photos is that you have no idea what happened to lead up to the photo and no idea what's going to happen next. It makes for a compelling photo, but don't read too much into it, because you have no idea what's really going on.
"A soldier-like image of the policemen would generate more fear in the society, and thus create more hostility."
Then it's a good thing police only pull out this persona where hostility is already inevitable. Sometimes, even in domestic situations, you need a soldier. I wish it weren't so. I wish that citizens of our great nation would always behave more like citizens and less like enemy combatants, but that can't always be the case in today's environment.
My bet is they're going right past him. One drawback of photos is that you have no idea what happened to lead up to the photo and no idea what's going to happen next. It makes for a compelling photo, but don't read too much into it, because you have no idea what's really going on.
"A soldier-like image of the policemen would generate more fear in the society, and thus create more hostility."
Then it's a good thing police only pull out this persona where hostility is already inevitable. Sometimes, even in domestic situations, you need a soldier. I wish it weren't so. I wish that citizens of our great nation would always behave more like citizens and less like enemy combatants, but that can't always be the case in today's environment.
So you do, or don't believe, that real war can erupt in our inner-cities?
How about limiting military equipment for federal agencies? For example, there is absolutely no reason for the USDA to have submachine guns, which even law-abiding citizens cannot purchase legally. Also, why does the SSA need millions of rounds of hollow points?
8
Waco, Texas
2
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/taskforce/TaskForce_FinalReport.pdf
Here is a link to the report the reporter omitted in the article.
Here is a link to the report the reporter omitted in the article.
8
If ONE police officer gets a perp spit in his face with aids and he doesn't have the face shield, one stab with a needle on an area usually protected by special equipment, or ONE policeman is injured or killed due to lack of equipment from the Feds, then he should be impeached, personally sued, and jailed for incompetence
5
Mickey, you can't get aids from someone spitting on you.
How about if ONE unarmed innocent citizen gets shot as a result of excessive use of force or use of excessive force? Oh, wait, that already happened several times this year. Policing is a dangerous job, and you accept some risks when you take that job. Or maybe police should just call in artillery strikes any time they need to serve a high-risk warrant?
Either you stand for something, or you don't. Go live in Egypt for a while if you think a militarized police force is such a great idea.
Either you stand for something, or you don't. Go live in Egypt for a while if you think a militarized police force is such a great idea.
A classic case of reverse engineering. The police don't really need face shields but since they got them now we have to come up with an excuse for why they must keep them. A perp with AIDS spitting in someone's face? Come on...
4
He'll need to dent criminal and civil asset forfeiture to slow the militarization. That's the incentive/ disincentive system police use to feather their own nests.
In criminal forfeiture: if you commit a felony, they take the stuff you used or gained in the act (house, car, cash). In civil forfeiture: the process is similar, except that the government sues the asset itself (E.g., "U.S. v One 1983 Ford Thunderbird"). Property is seized "with due process."
The police supplement their budgets by controlling and selling these assets. An egregious example is Philadelphia. The city has collected up to $6 mil yearly - resulting in a class action suit brought by a legal advocacy group.
The disincentive to crime is that you go to prison and lose your stuff. Sometimes your your mom loses her stuff too.
The incentive for aggressive arrests and prosecution - in the perverse logic of the quasi-police state - is that police, their departments, budgets, and ranks grow and benefit simply by doing their job. This "performance bonus" mentality needs to be upended if we want to meaningfully limits the militarization of the police.
Let's not forget: federal, state, and local law enforcement officers are CIVILIANS. Now matter how often they slangily refer to the hoi polloi as "civilians" - they are our government to instruct and control. Both the military and law enforcement rely on civilian oversight. Especially the setting of boundaries on their legally-authorized powers and tactics.
In criminal forfeiture: if you commit a felony, they take the stuff you used or gained in the act (house, car, cash). In civil forfeiture: the process is similar, except that the government sues the asset itself (E.g., "U.S. v One 1983 Ford Thunderbird"). Property is seized "with due process."
The police supplement their budgets by controlling and selling these assets. An egregious example is Philadelphia. The city has collected up to $6 mil yearly - resulting in a class action suit brought by a legal advocacy group.
The disincentive to crime is that you go to prison and lose your stuff. Sometimes your your mom loses her stuff too.
The incentive for aggressive arrests and prosecution - in the perverse logic of the quasi-police state - is that police, their departments, budgets, and ranks grow and benefit simply by doing their job. This "performance bonus" mentality needs to be upended if we want to meaningfully limits the militarization of the police.
Let's not forget: federal, state, and local law enforcement officers are CIVILIANS. Now matter how often they slangily refer to the hoi polloi as "civilians" - they are our government to instruct and control. Both the military and law enforcement rely on civilian oversight. Especially the setting of boundaries on their legally-authorized powers and tactics.
21
I agree with Obama that Military type of weaponry & tracked armored vehicles,should not be used to control peaceful demonstrations, & only to be used by special units such as Swat teams, which should only be called upon when the Police are confronted by gunfire, arson,, looting or bombs of any sort,The laws should be changed concerning Police killings & illegal guns.Carrying an illegal gun should have a penalty of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Killing a Police officer should carry a mandatory death sentence by a Firing squad made up of officers from the Precent the deceased officer was from.Lets have some balance, the rioters regardless of their race are always wrong,whatever their grievances.The peoples main weapon is the ballot box not molotov cocktails .
3
"Carrying an illegal gun should have a penalty of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Killing a Police officer should carry a mandatory death sentence by a Firing squad made up of officers from the Precent the deceased officer was from"
And you consider yourself and New Jersery 'ultraliberal'? As a liberal from SC this is giving me new perspective.
And you consider yourself and New Jersery 'ultraliberal'? As a liberal from SC this is giving me new perspective.
1
Pro-Gun Lefty
Ultraliberal is my attempt at satire. I'm a liberal for Woman's Choice , Gay Rights,Civil Rights for every tax paying American & most important, the Separation of Church & State. I am conservative when it comes to small Government,no handouts to anyone who is fit to work, unless there is no work to be had. Capitalism, Free Enterprise, Law & Order, the protection & support of our police, & punishment for Anti Social Criminals, & thugs, A President with backbone, on the style of Teddy Roosevelt, or Harry Truman who would have kicked Putin where the sun doesn't shine into the Black Sea.One other important point. ask yourself if McCain was President would there have been an ISIS after the first American was beheaded.As far as your gun is concerned I have no problem with it as long as you don't need a Military Automatic Rife to hunt rabbits, & as long as it's licensed.
Ultraliberal is my attempt at satire. I'm a liberal for Woman's Choice , Gay Rights,Civil Rights for every tax paying American & most important, the Separation of Church & State. I am conservative when it comes to small Government,no handouts to anyone who is fit to work, unless there is no work to be had. Capitalism, Free Enterprise, Law & Order, the protection & support of our police, & punishment for Anti Social Criminals, & thugs, A President with backbone, on the style of Teddy Roosevelt, or Harry Truman who would have kicked Putin where the sun doesn't shine into the Black Sea.One other important point. ask yourself if McCain was President would there have been an ISIS after the first American was beheaded.As far as your gun is concerned I have no problem with it as long as you don't need a Military Automatic Rife to hunt rabbits, & as long as it's licensed.
1
After reading NYT "What Military Gear Your Local Police Department Bought" in June 2014, I called the Sheriff's Department in Burleigh County North Dakota, and asked them about the 353 assault rifles. What was interesting is that after a very friendly discussion with a deputy, he said he had no idea that they had them or why. Great reporting NYT, and hurray for Obama!
10
It was Obama that gave those to them in the first place.
The guardian vs warrior state of mind is the key to the problem: a police officer serves and protects under the constraints of probable cause and a soldier identifies enemies and kills them.
The President's restrictions are a start but the government needs to stop supplying police departments with assault rifles and other full auto weapons and claw back the restricted equipment now in the hands of local police.
The President's restrictions are a start but the government needs to stop supplying police departments with assault rifles and other full auto weapons and claw back the restricted equipment now in the hands of local police.
51
We know how the most vocal citizens feel about disarming the police, and we know how criminals feel. Obviously, criminals will always be against anything that strengthens law enforcement. But how do other Americans feel?
One thing that has become apparent in these high profile cases is how out-of-control some of these neighborhoods actually are. Citizens with dozens of arrests. Citizens who destroy and loot entire neighborhoods. It's not hard to understand the increasing force used to subdue this type of behavior.
I suspect body cameras will shine a greater light on not only police aggression but the extreme nature of the criminals, with which they must deal.
One thing that has become apparent in these high profile cases is how out-of-control some of these neighborhoods actually are. Citizens with dozens of arrests. Citizens who destroy and loot entire neighborhoods. It's not hard to understand the increasing force used to subdue this type of behavior.
I suspect body cameras will shine a greater light on not only police aggression but the extreme nature of the criminals, with which they must deal.
20
"We know how the most vocal citizens feel about disarming the police, and we know how criminals feel"
Do we know all of that? Sounds like a too broad generalization to justify military-level armories for every town in the USA.
Do we know all of that? Sounds like a too broad generalization to justify military-level armories for every town in the USA.
1
How do other Americans feel? Have you seen the news out of Baltimore? People are tired of seeing their children killed by trigger-happy, violent police. A long rap sheet of non-violent crimes does not justify this behavior. I agree that there is room for improvement on both sides, but let's not overstate the the petty crimes of the disenfranchised poor. There is a clear problem with our police, and the militarization of police forces is furthering an us-vs-them mentality and sending a message to police that citizens are the enemy and need to be controlled using military force. It's fascinating, because I don't hear the NRA and other gun nuts speaking out, but this militarization of our police forces is what the Second Amendment is all about.
People are tired of the looting, drug abuse, disrespect of law & order and authority and sick and tired of the non-stop obsession with race and inner city crime and stupidity on many levels.
3
Does anyone know if the Task Force Report on which Obama based his decision is available to the public? If so, it would be helpful if the reporter on this piece linked to the report.
25
Sure, Obama will ban military equipment from local police departments - until he, or any future President, declares martial law and rolls out the tanks to forcefully oppress the people.
21
Is that really your long view of the United States of America? I'm trying to understand the thinking that goes into that particular fear. Consider that a president can't just declare martial law and have the military suddenly take over the country. We actually do have laws and many, many people in our government who are deeply committed to the rule of law, even if a president suddenly loses his mind and declares martial law.
Bottom line, the government isn't coming to get you. However, as the right-wing is so find of saying in matters of law and order, if you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
Bottom line, the government isn't coming to get you. However, as the right-wing is so find of saying in matters of law and order, if you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
I have more faith in my country than you do.
The tanks rolled out Waco to suppress a religious group and killed their children.
Boys and their toys is what this was about. Just have them either return or destroy the military equipment they got. Also take a hard look at setting national standards for local police personnel or perhaps just nationalize all police forces.
13
Nationalized police are not constitutional.
The idea to "nationalize all police forces" is wrong on just about every level.
Yes, make them part of DHS, which can then apply the same rigorous hiring and training standards they do at TSA. And all of the officers can get fancy, new epaulets, too.
I think giving military equipment to police was a back door way to keep our contractors busy. With two wars ending they needed an outlet for their products.
311
Very correct!
1
Much more significantly, it was the Police Departments' employment of seasoned war veterans that really militarized the "Forces". I recall many years ago at the onset of the Iraq war reading stories about troops breaking down doors and invading homes in Iraq. My distinct recollection was that it was training future cops to break down American doors, and I was right!
The equipment given to the police was/is all surplus. No "keep our contractors busy" at work here.
That's really relevant.
If the President wanted to do the responsible thing but without taking blame himself for all the anti-police, anti-white violence his Justice Department has incited, he'd make former Attorney General Eric Holder the fall guy.
If the President wanted to do the responsible thing but without taking blame himself for all the anti-police, anti-white violence his Justice Department has incited, he'd make former Attorney General Eric Holder the fall guy.
6
Why would this be a positive move. Are the police arming themselves to take over, to pillage, to riot or to cause trouble? The country will not settle down as a result of disarming law enforcement. Bogus article, bogus move by Obama. Nonsense
14
Yes, yes they are arming themselves to do just that. The police are groomed and ready to "quell" the revolution that is coming...do not kid yourself my friend. We will all see the truth soon.
Perhaps the police should be limited to only sling shots or swords. That way those carrrying AK-47s and MAC-10s in the hood would have reign of their neighborhoods. No police, no police abuse. Then again crime would be running rampant and law and order would break down in these area. But at least there would be less police "racism" so that would be OK.
14
For 20 years -- since Giuliani/Bratton revolutionized community policing and zero tolerance for low level crimes in NYC -- violent crime has plummeted in NYC and around the country (with most lives saved being inner city blacks). But now there is an assault on these practices in the name of "fairness" and pure "racial equity." The left (Obama, de Blasio, the NY Times) will seemingly not be satisfied until the police are relegated to their 1970s and 1980s impotence, and crime is again rampant in cities across America. Good times.
20
Already crime is increasing in NYC, and people are noticing a change on the streets.
Living near criminals is very unpleasant for everyone. It's worst for those in high crime neighborhoods. When you stop apprehending criminals, it becomes even more unpleasant.
Apprehending criminals, itself, involves some unpleasantness, like "stop-and-frisk" and "broken windows" policies. This is what the advocates for justice ignore. They'll be happy but victims will not.
Living near criminals is very unpleasant for everyone. It's worst for those in high crime neighborhoods. When you stop apprehending criminals, it becomes even more unpleasant.
Apprehending criminals, itself, involves some unpleasantness, like "stop-and-frisk" and "broken windows" policies. This is what the advocates for justice ignore. They'll be happy but victims will not.
6
Right, but tanks never rolled down the streets of NYC. The NYC approach to crime was successful, i.e. "broken windows" (although the economists who wrote "Freakonomics" claimed that only a small percentage of the drop in crime should be attributed to broken windows policing) without this ridiculous police crime spree. Something has changed here, and we need to get a grip on it and get back to smart policing rather than more violent policing.
AACNY, crime is down, not up, in New York City.
According to the latest stats from the city, crime is down across the board 7.32% from this time last year. That's down, not up. There have been 10 more murders and 37 more rapes. Everything else - robbery, assault, burglary and larceny - is down. So what "people" are noticing a change in which streets?
See, people who don't like di Blasio would like to think that crime is going up except it really isn't. So you can relax. Things actually are getting better.
According to the latest stats from the city, crime is down across the board 7.32% from this time last year. That's down, not up. There have been 10 more murders and 37 more rapes. Everything else - robbery, assault, burglary and larceny - is down. So what "people" are noticing a change in which streets?
See, people who don't like di Blasio would like to think that crime is going up except it really isn't. So you can relax. Things actually are getting better.
First time I remember noting this insane lack of proportionality in law enforcement was the siege of the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco, TX during the Clinton administration. As I recall, it was appropriations time for the ATF, who then mounted a disasterously botched "surprise" raid in which four agents were killed. Subsequently the FBI undertook a two month siege of the compound involving hundreds of agents, using armored personnel carriers, psy-ops, and ending in a tear gas suffused assault which may or may not have ignited the inferno that eventually killed 86 cult members. What shocked me was an interview I heard with the local sheriff, in which he said, that David Koresh, the cult's leader, was often seen shopping in town, or out jogging prior to the initial raid, that he had spoken to Koresh on several occasions, and that if the ATF had wanted to talk to Koresh about weapons at the compound (the putative motive for the raid), all they had to do was consult with him (the sheriff) and he would have driven out to the compound and asked Koresh to come in.
16
That is exactly what community policing is all about. I doubt that federal authorities would agree with that, though, because they are usually better paid, better armed, and better educated. They are not about to admit that the local yokels know better what to do.
The police's need for military equipment was founded on the premise that the standard police arsenal was inadequate to deal with modern criminals. One has only to remember the Bank of America robbery where police had to use a Wells Fargo armored truck to rescue civilians that had been injured by the well armed and equipped robbers.
Unilateral disarmament is not the solution where criminals and terrorists are on the prowl. To stop them police only have handguns and shotguns, both inadequate beyond 30-40 yards.
Maybe Obama should begin by giving up his armored car and the automatic weapons used by those that protect him and his family. After all, is it not true that he is loved by everyone?
Unilateral disarmament is not the solution where criminals and terrorists are on the prowl. To stop them police only have handguns and shotguns, both inadequate beyond 30-40 yards.
Maybe Obama should begin by giving up his armored car and the automatic weapons used by those that protect him and his family. After all, is it not true that he is loved by everyone?
16
You dont need military equipment to stop a bank robbery. actually the safest thing to do is let them rob the bank and catch them after. they should invest in fast bullter proof cars. the moneys insured, the bank gets it back. Your life on the otherhand, once its taken....you do the math.
Why say things like that? It's obvious that he is one of the most hated, most racially- and right wing- targeted presidents ever.
In the overwhelming majority of cases, bigger caliber guns don't make a difference. In most cases, heavily armored combat vehicles reinforce an us versus them mentality. When the police are more engaged with the community, and act to support the community, the community supports them more.
The two views contrasted here are the friendly beat cop, known, loved and protected by his community, cooperating with them to keep things safe and moving smoothly, VS the overrun outpost in Vietnam, where every ounce of firepower helps save police lives.
Honestly, now, which place would you rather live in? Which future would you rather see? This isn't a video game of an action adventure movie, this is real life. Are you seriously telling us you want to live in a combat zone?
In the overwhelming majority of cases, bigger caliber guns don't make a difference. In most cases, heavily armored combat vehicles reinforce an us versus them mentality. When the police are more engaged with the community, and act to support the community, the community supports them more.
The two views contrasted here are the friendly beat cop, known, loved and protected by his community, cooperating with them to keep things safe and moving smoothly, VS the overrun outpost in Vietnam, where every ounce of firepower helps save police lives.
Honestly, now, which place would you rather live in? Which future would you rather see? This isn't a video game of an action adventure movie, this is real life. Are you seriously telling us you want to live in a combat zone?
No one is talking about disarming the police. We are talking about armored vehicles, 50 caliber rifles and mounted belt-fed machine guns used by ordinary and sometimes even small town police departments. If the police can't' shoot past 30 yards (if I were a cop I would not admit to this) they can use a bolt-action 7.62. Personally, I don't think they should even use ARs.
In the Age of Obama unarmed innocent blacks - Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, Michael Brown, John Crawford, Tamir Rice, Akai Gurley, Eric Garner, Walter Scott and Freddie Gray- are still shot to death. Following Sean Bell, Oscar Grant and Amadou Diallo into racially colored oblivion.
While in the Age of Obama armed white Waco Texas biker gang thugs and armed white Nevada thug Cliven Bundy and his band and armed cop killer Eric Frein lived free and safe. Just like Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, John Hinckley, Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh and Randy Weaver.
In the most heavily armed nation on Earth this is Obama too little too late. Obama targets and kills American citizens with missiles fired from drones without due process.
Assuming that all of those shot killed and wounded in the Waco Texas biker gang shoot-out were all bad guys with guns then that was the by far the best morning "good" news.
What is the matter with Texas? Maybe the Canadian Cuban American Rafael Edward Cruz or Texas John Cornyn and Texas Rick Perry can enlighten us all?
While in the Age of Obama armed white Waco Texas biker gang thugs and armed white Nevada thug Cliven Bundy and his band and armed cop killer Eric Frein lived free and safe. Just like Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, John Hinckley, Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh and Randy Weaver.
In the most heavily armed nation on Earth this is Obama too little too late. Obama targets and kills American citizens with missiles fired from drones without due process.
Assuming that all of those shot killed and wounded in the Waco Texas biker gang shoot-out were all bad guys with guns then that was the by far the best morning "good" news.
What is the matter with Texas? Maybe the Canadian Cuban American Rafael Edward Cruz or Texas John Cornyn and Texas Rick Perry can enlighten us all?
10
Michael Brown may well have been unarmed, but he was certainly not innocent. He robbed a store and attacked a cop.
10
Neither innocence nor guilt are determinable by cop. The cop did not know that Mike Brown was allegedly guilty of shop-lifting and assault. Neither crime is likely punishable by prison nor the death penalty. Brown had no record.
Why did Officer Darren Wilson profile, stalk, stop and shoot Brown? For "the manner that he was walking in the street" while black?
Why did Officer Darren Wilson profile, stalk, stop and shoot Brown? For "the manner that he was walking in the street" while black?
blackmamba, did you even READ about this case? what is discouraging is that something can be covered in such detail in the media and people like you still blather nonsense.
Officer Wilson had NO IDEA Michael Brown had been shoplifting. But Brown DID know, and he was high as a kite on marijuana. In his paranoid state, it is likely he THOUGHT the officer was coming to arrest him for shoplifting and assaulting a store clerk -- so he charged the officer and went for his gun.
That's what happened. That is the truth. You are perpetrating LIES.
Officer Wilson had NO IDEA Michael Brown had been shoplifting. But Brown DID know, and he was high as a kite on marijuana. In his paranoid state, it is likely he THOUGHT the officer was coming to arrest him for shoplifting and assaulting a store clerk -- so he charged the officer and went for his gun.
That's what happened. That is the truth. You are perpetrating LIES.
"We have a unique opportunity to redefine policing in our democracy, to ensure that public safety becomes more than the absence of crime, but it must also include a presence for justice.” - Ronald L Davis.
I agree, I think as a country we have been watching too many "dirty harry" movies and we think policing is just "catching the bad guys"!
I agree, I think as a country we have been watching too many "dirty harry" movies and we think policing is just "catching the bad guys"!
13
I would like to thank Lt. Ramirez for accounting for the material which will, Obama notwithstanding, find its way into the domestic security apparatus and be deployed as objects for future perseveration of the liberal collective.
1
Were any black men shot by this military style equipment? If not, why ban it? Sounds like a political move, rather than one to save lives.
16
"Were any black men shot by this military style equipment?"
Why only black men?
Why only black men?
A FEDERAL task force ' that he created ' reached a decision that LOCAL police should be barred from using FEDERAL funds for acquiring items 'that include tracked armored vehicles , the highest caliber firearms and ammunition. Gee, what an unbiased surprise from federal BIG BROTHER Obama !
10
It was the Federal government that gave them all of this stuff for free or almost free in the first place. Big Brother? Reversing this trend is the opposite of big brother. The word is doublespeak.
What's your point? That the federal government is the federal government?
1
Is it really a good idea to announce publicly in advance of the next riots that cops are being substantially disarmed? A better idea might be to keep weapons and equipment of this type out of the hands of local authorities during ordinary times, but to figure out a way to make them available if and when they are needed.
43
How about keeping military equipment in the hands of the Military and the National Guard? If there is civil unrest that requires a military level response, call in the National Guard. Isn't that what they are there for? I am a big supporter of Police, but I have grown increasingly wary of Military Style Local Police. They do not promote community confidence or trust, and that MUST be a central function of a local PD.
Local police should not wear gas masks, combat boots and camo uniforms, bulletproof armor, carry fully automatic weapons in the aimed position, don't need assault vehicles.... unless the intent is to strike fear (nay, TERROR) in the hearts of the citizens they are supposed to "Serve and Protect".
Local police should not wear gas masks, combat boots and camo uniforms, bulletproof armor, carry fully automatic weapons in the aimed position, don't need assault vehicles.... unless the intent is to strike fear (nay, TERROR) in the hearts of the citizens they are supposed to "Serve and Protect".
1
So in your mind, the relationship between police and their communities is that of an arms race, where the sides are always trying to hide their true capabilities? Do you think riots are the product of military planners, developing counterforce policies?
1
Yes, who's going to deal with all the mines under the lawns of Austin now?
1
What does a tiny city in the midwest need tanks and military grade weapons for? Arming the NY or LAPDs with military grade weapons and vehicles for the purposes of anti-terrosit action is already beyond the pale. Local police should be trained for local law enforcement and peace keeping and large vulnerable cities should have plenty of money for special anti-terrorism forces. There's also the National Guard which we keep for those purposes.
The clowns in these comments whining about "minority crime" and policing, would clearly whine about ANY action Obama took to address police brutality and criminality. He isn't banning cops from carrying the guns they've always carried so the notion that Obama is somehow weakening law enforcement is nonsense.
Even more important than demilitarizing the police is retraining them and reordering the police culture. Only the blind can't see that police culture has become almost mafioso in the way they protect each other. If this were't the case there would be more police arresting and charging their own with crimes we can all see they commit. I say, start with the unions.
We need legislation that makes police unions and individual officers personally responsible for settlements and judgements that result from brutality, wrongful arrest, wrongful death and civil-rights suits brought against them. Before taxpayers have to pick up one dime of these pay-outs, some portion should come out of police pensions and union coffers.
The clowns in these comments whining about "minority crime" and policing, would clearly whine about ANY action Obama took to address police brutality and criminality. He isn't banning cops from carrying the guns they've always carried so the notion that Obama is somehow weakening law enforcement is nonsense.
Even more important than demilitarizing the police is retraining them and reordering the police culture. Only the blind can't see that police culture has become almost mafioso in the way they protect each other. If this were't the case there would be more police arresting and charging their own with crimes we can all see they commit. I say, start with the unions.
We need legislation that makes police unions and individual officers personally responsible for settlements and judgements that result from brutality, wrongful arrest, wrongful death and civil-rights suits brought against them. Before taxpayers have to pick up one dime of these pay-outs, some portion should come out of police pensions and union coffers.
6
There are no tanks
I will simply remain respectful and state that taking the equipment away from police limits their ability to protect in ANY given circumstance. It is said that the police are too aggressive but when one understands the millions of officers in this nation and compare it to the poor acts of a few, it unjustly punishes those that protect us. If you wish to take away the equipment from the police, could you please ask the criminal thugs to turn in their guns and weapons too? Could we take those away too? Or... Can you ask the criminal element to stop being criminals? Maybe they can stop killing and assaulting. Maybe they can stop the drug activity. I could go on and on. People complain about the police but I challenge any of you to walk in their shoes and protect and serve! Remember 9/11 and who ran in without thought or care for themselves but rather simply to rescue people. Hypocrites in society complain yet they do nothing to better the change! One last note, can we ask Al Sharpton to pay those millions in back taxes because there are programs for the children, poor and elderly that could use some funding!
4
If you were to look into the FBI crime statistics you would see that there are almost no crimes committed with the types of rifles you see carried by the armored, gas-masked troops pictured in this article. Despite all the movies, the vast majority of firearm crime committed in this country is with ordinary handguns, even old-fashioned revolvers. Police with body-armor and high-capacity 9mm or 40mm handguns and shotguns are not under-gunned except in the most rare of circumstances. The recent attack in Texas concerning the Mohammed cartoons involving two attackers with semi-automatic rifles was ended by a cop and a hand gun. God Bless Texas.
This initiative provides a good example of what has been wrong with the Obama administration from Day 1: A perverse wish to provide "balance" even when resolute, unbalanced action is needed. To have his Domestic Policy person say it's "appropriate and useful and important" to militarize the police -- as long as they don't abuse the toys, wink, wink -- sends exactly the wrong message to the American people. And by that I mean all of us, not just those in communities that have suffered acutely from an Army-like occupation. It would be "appropriate and useful and important" for police departments around the country to grasp that they are not occupiers and are not entitled to use military equipment, period. It would be even more "appropriate and useful and important" to abolish the Orwellian fount of tyranny that calls itself Homeland Security, a thing that was created in a blind panic and is both unnecessary and injurious to democracy.
3
Why did America's police militarize in the first place? By unilaterally disarming the police, Obama has virtually ensured that the officers who patrol America's most dangerous streets will feel even more threatened and thus respond to the slightest provocation with violence. The problem, as evidenced by the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore, is that in certain areas police officers will be provoked and perhaps even baited.
How could any of you believe that the problem will be solved if the police learn to be a little nicer? Should they be nice to drug dealers? Should they be polite to a man who batters his wife and abuses his children? Should they be big brothers to kids who beat up other kids?
Until you walk in their shoes and see what they see, it would be best to leave it to the police to fix the problem. These edicts from high will do nothing but hinder at best and could even cost the lives of the men and women who serve.
How could any of you believe that the problem will be solved if the police learn to be a little nicer? Should they be nice to drug dealers? Should they be polite to a man who batters his wife and abuses his children? Should they be big brothers to kids who beat up other kids?
Until you walk in their shoes and see what they see, it would be best to leave it to the police to fix the problem. These edicts from high will do nothing but hinder at best and could even cost the lives of the men and women who serve.
4
He's not "disarming the police." He's taking away their tanks, and making sure they don't get nukes.
Camouflage uniforms? Police forces were created, as by Sir Robert Peel in 1829, specifically to be *civilian* organizations. Before that, soldiers were often used for law enforcement; because they are trained to use violence, they often caused unnecessary harm and hostility toward government. Obviously violence is sometimes necessary to keep the peace, but many police forces seem to have forgotten that their job is "to serve and protect." Camouflage uniforms seem a clear sign that some of them see themselves as enemies of the communities they serve.
6
How about a campaign called "just pull up your pants!!!"
8
Is it the heavy weaponry that is causing these communities to become extremely violent and dangerous to law enforcement? That's pretty interesting. What happens when the police get overrun in places like Ferguson and Baltimore and they don't have the equipment to neutralize hostile elements? Make no mistake, these are war zones. Just because they are here in this country and not in the Middle East does not make them any safer.
9
You are simply racist and wrong to label places where poor people have no choice but to live as "war zones." This is the kind of fear-based, distrusting of "otherness" attitude that the right wing needs to fuel its base. Sickening and depressing.
So the Department of Justice do have a department known as "The Office of Community oriented Policing" all we need now is that they ensure that the police departments of our nation become a Community Police departments and leave the battle gear to the National Guards of various States.
Thank you president Obama for taking the first step towards better community policing, the next logical step would be to order all materials given by the Homeland Security to be transferred to various State National Guards for their use and when and if needed would be used on the orders of the Governor of respective States to be used by appropriately trained individuals.
Community policing without getting rid of organizations such as NRA would really not work. One of the critical part of this strategy must be to remove most if not all the weapons from the society. I can somewhat understand the legalization of firearms for sporting purposes, but this sporting cannot be construed as a fight between the bikers which left at least 9 dead in Waco, Texas. Well that’s Texas.
In order to have better community policing, Hollywood would have to play its role too; part of our problem with the kind of policing that our police has become is the image that was created by Hollywood. Now as the Taliban have to detrain and mix back in the society in Afghanistan, similarly the police needs to be detrained and back in the Community Policing of the society they live in.
Thank you president Obama for taking the first step towards better community policing, the next logical step would be to order all materials given by the Homeland Security to be transferred to various State National Guards for their use and when and if needed would be used on the orders of the Governor of respective States to be used by appropriately trained individuals.
Community policing without getting rid of organizations such as NRA would really not work. One of the critical part of this strategy must be to remove most if not all the weapons from the society. I can somewhat understand the legalization of firearms for sporting purposes, but this sporting cannot be construed as a fight between the bikers which left at least 9 dead in Waco, Texas. Well that’s Texas.
In order to have better community policing, Hollywood would have to play its role too; part of our problem with the kind of policing that our police has become is the image that was created by Hollywood. Now as the Taliban have to detrain and mix back in the society in Afghanistan, similarly the police needs to be detrained and back in the Community Policing of the society they live in.
I think this is a great move by the President. Unfortunately, the military equipment is a minor detail. Almost every problem we've seen over the past decades involving police brutality and misconduct has nothing to do with militarization (in terms of materials) and much more to do with:
1) the general culture of police as protectors of property and regulators of poor people; 2) police forces funded on the backs of poor and working class people through excessive and aggressive "policing" (very much like Mafia soldiers); 3) a particular culture within police that sees poor people - especially people of color - as an enemy, and prioritizes loyalty and solidarity among police above all else, including due process and dignity for citizens; 4) a culture within police forces that leads to excessive lying and misrepresentation (in almost every case we've seen, police initially give details that are later proven to be false); and 5) the culture of white supremacy that is deeply ingrained in police forces around the country presently, and which provides the historical purpose and foundation of the institution itself.
That's great news about the military weapons - institutions that function like this should not have tanks. But we've got so much more work, and much harder work, to do.
1) the general culture of police as protectors of property and regulators of poor people; 2) police forces funded on the backs of poor and working class people through excessive and aggressive "policing" (very much like Mafia soldiers); 3) a particular culture within police that sees poor people - especially people of color - as an enemy, and prioritizes loyalty and solidarity among police above all else, including due process and dignity for citizens; 4) a culture within police forces that leads to excessive lying and misrepresentation (in almost every case we've seen, police initially give details that are later proven to be false); and 5) the culture of white supremacy that is deeply ingrained in police forces around the country presently, and which provides the historical purpose and foundation of the institution itself.
That's great news about the military weapons - institutions that function like this should not have tanks. But we've got so much more work, and much harder work, to do.
13
Thanks for this...the only sensible response I've read so far. Has everyone lost their minds? People commenting on this article are acting like criminals are born rather than created by their environment. As a society we have no one but ourselves to blame for allowing poverty to run rampant in our cities.
Guns = tyranny.
8
Guns in the hands of citizens = liberty
A sensible action, limiting but not banning military equipment. It certainly has a place, but not in arming the entire police force against large portions of the population.
4
if I'm rolling up to a crime scene in my military hummer please note the canvas doors do not stop bullets
The photograph accompanying this article is not persuasive. It does not have the intended effect.
The military style response to the rioting in Ferguson was appropriate. Day to day policing should not be militarized, but if crowds of violent people start burning and destroying property, they should be dealt with like crowds of violent people.
There is no reason for military police equipment on a day to day basis, other than body armor or other defensive equipment. There is nothing threatening about an armored personnel carrier if it is not outfitted with weaponry. Why should a "mine resistant vehicle" be seen as a threat? Armor is defensive, protects the police, and is not offensive. Yes, it carries a certain image, but that is more defensive than offensive, unless it has guns mounted on it a la Robo Cop. Do you feel threatened by a Brinks truck? Does all of that armor protecting the guys carrying the money threaten you? Of course not. Fear of an armored personal carrier is irrational.
Now, should such vehicles be used every day? No--they use too much fuel for normal operations. But there are occasions such vehicles can be life saving.
People here are discussing "artillery." There's no artillery.
There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding as to what sort of military equipment has been distributed and its purpose. Journalists have once again UTTERLY FAILED to inform the public in a rational discourse. It is all about sensation.
The military style response to the rioting in Ferguson was appropriate. Day to day policing should not be militarized, but if crowds of violent people start burning and destroying property, they should be dealt with like crowds of violent people.
There is no reason for military police equipment on a day to day basis, other than body armor or other defensive equipment. There is nothing threatening about an armored personnel carrier if it is not outfitted with weaponry. Why should a "mine resistant vehicle" be seen as a threat? Armor is defensive, protects the police, and is not offensive. Yes, it carries a certain image, but that is more defensive than offensive, unless it has guns mounted on it a la Robo Cop. Do you feel threatened by a Brinks truck? Does all of that armor protecting the guys carrying the money threaten you? Of course not. Fear of an armored personal carrier is irrational.
Now, should such vehicles be used every day? No--they use too much fuel for normal operations. But there are occasions such vehicles can be life saving.
People here are discussing "artillery." There's no artillery.
There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding as to what sort of military equipment has been distributed and its purpose. Journalists have once again UTTERLY FAILED to inform the public in a rational discourse. It is all about sensation.
12
Unless the media invented the military style equipment that was on display in Ferguson, which was bought using taxes and the disproportional fines and fees that were inflicted upon the very people the equipment was meant to intimidate, then the effect of that equipment was clear to anyone with eyes.
Not sure how anyone can label equipment that was built to be used on foreign soil and against threats to the sovereignty of the United States as "defensive."
What a crazy country we live in. In most of the civilized world the police don't even carry guns. But here, we defend the use of heavy armor and military equipment to policy the citizenry. This all stems from the refusal of past presidents to enforce the fair housing laws that were put in place after the urban violence of the 1960, which was nicely chronicled in this papers op/ed section over the weekend.
Faced with two choices, tackle the causes of this problem, or enlist the police force to treat these areas like militarized zones, Nixon and Reagan, in particular, chose the latter.
Not sure how anyone can label equipment that was built to be used on foreign soil and against threats to the sovereignty of the United States as "defensive."
What a crazy country we live in. In most of the civilized world the police don't even carry guns. But here, we defend the use of heavy armor and military equipment to policy the citizenry. This all stems from the refusal of past presidents to enforce the fair housing laws that were put in place after the urban violence of the 1960, which was nicely chronicled in this papers op/ed section over the weekend.
Faced with two choices, tackle the causes of this problem, or enlist the police force to treat these areas like militarized zones, Nixon and Reagan, in particular, chose the latter.
Freedom to assemble is a fundamental right in our democracy. Can't you understand that a lot of the anger and resulting violence in Ferguson was the result of peaceful protests being met by a military force pointing guns at unarmed people?
"Do you feel threatened by a Brinks truck?" I would if I knew it was filled by a bunch of armored, rifle-toting hot heads getting ready to kick down my door and kill my dog.
I'm curious... Did Obama ban criminals including Mexican cartels from using military style equipment against law enforcement and law-abiding citizens?
17
Obama has no control over Mexican cartels. They're in Mexico. Obama is president of the United States.
1
Um I think that is already against the law. But you know that.
Are criminals using military-style equipment? Can you cite an example?
As to Mexican cartels, they're in Mexico.
As to Mexican cartels, they're in Mexico.
1
This is a good start, but much more can be done such as ending the war on drugs. Stop rewarding the arrest of users and redirect it toward real crime investigation. Put money into building safe communities and implement sensible gun laws.
5
And police in sensible shoes, no doubt.
1
What pray tell was the Maryland National Guard troops armed with in Baltimore? BB guns? While the over militarization of the police isn't what a civilian population wants, with the free access in many states to all sorts of military weapons and other equipment what do you want the police to do? As for the Waco Texas incident, I am sure there was no time for the roll out of their version of a SWAT team.
The police in Paris had to back away from the assault rifle carrying terrorists that killed those journalists, because they didn't even have side arms. I don't expect the police to be provided with Abrams tanks, but I do expect them to be able to defend themselves and me against individuals that are able to purchase whatever is available in advanced military weaponry. That includes night vision goggles and all the other things our government allows civilians to purchase.
The police need to be as well if not better armed then the rest of the non-military population in case. But I also expect them to use it appropriately as well.
We are having the talk it seems about appropriate police response and what is acceptable police behavior. How about the discussion on the lawless communities in this country that provide most of the crime and violence we are seeing. You want the police to act responsibly, the vast majority do, how about the bad apples that live, rob and murder people of color and what we should do with them? What Mr. President? Nothing to say about that?
The police in Paris had to back away from the assault rifle carrying terrorists that killed those journalists, because they didn't even have side arms. I don't expect the police to be provided with Abrams tanks, but I do expect them to be able to defend themselves and me against individuals that are able to purchase whatever is available in advanced military weaponry. That includes night vision goggles and all the other things our government allows civilians to purchase.
The police need to be as well if not better armed then the rest of the non-military population in case. But I also expect them to use it appropriately as well.
We are having the talk it seems about appropriate police response and what is acceptable police behavior. How about the discussion on the lawless communities in this country that provide most of the crime and violence we are seeing. You want the police to act responsibly, the vast majority do, how about the bad apples that live, rob and murder people of color and what we should do with them? What Mr. President? Nothing to say about that?
11
With every public comment about urban unrest President Obama has condemned the lawlessness and defended the actions of police officers to defend themselves. The president and anyone with even a sliver of understanding of what's happening in these urban regions understand that poverty, violence, drug use, joblessness, etc. is the root of these problems. So, yes, he has plenty to say about that. But that doesn't mean that dialog will not be drowned out by partisan agendas or ideologies.
You must also look at the recent demonstrations of unrest through some bias prism to conclude that the police require military-grade weaponry to defend themselves against these urban uprisings. The participants have not firearms, no shields, no armor. They are not a militarized force.
If there is justification for city police forces to adopt and spend our tax money on military-grade equipment it is to defend against almost exclusively white militia, who, with the support of the NRA, have assembled a destructive arsenal capable of overcoming government forces.
Obama's mandate has a simple objective: Diffuse some of the us/against tension in these areas by eliminating the powerful reinforcement of that message that emanates from armored trucks and other military gear, which is normally deployed against foreigners.
You must also look at the recent demonstrations of unrest through some bias prism to conclude that the police require military-grade weaponry to defend themselves against these urban uprisings. The participants have not firearms, no shields, no armor. They are not a militarized force.
If there is justification for city police forces to adopt and spend our tax money on military-grade equipment it is to defend against almost exclusively white militia, who, with the support of the NRA, have assembled a destructive arsenal capable of overcoming government forces.
Obama's mandate has a simple objective: Diffuse some of the us/against tension in these areas by eliminating the powerful reinforcement of that message that emanates from armored trucks and other military gear, which is normally deployed against foreigners.
Actually Rob, in Waco the biker thing was planned in advance...the cops knew that 3 rival clubs would be there and they prepared accordingly. They could have had whatever they wanted to have there, they had extra cops. That was planning and preparedness. I believe that the retreat will be liable for promoting the get together knowing that they were enemies. Look for the lawyers to show up soon...
Last December, as we were leaving church in downtown Tulsa we saw the groups forming for the annual Christmas parade, including a huge military style tank with a banner for the Tulsa Police Department. Because, as I told my spouse, nothing speaks to Christmas, Santa and Baby Jesus like an armored tank. I want my tax dollars, local, state and federal to be used in the building of bridges, both literally and philosophically within the community.
398
" I want my tax dollars, local, state and federal to be used in the building of bridges, both literally and philosophically within the community."
I'm assuming you've already written and visited with your local Government (but you probably haven't) and voiced your desires to them. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are also engaged with the most vulnerable in the Community and "building bridges". . . honestly though, you're not :/
If you want money to be allocated differently then you must engage the POLITICIANS. If you want to help Society then you must DO SOMETHING.
Complaining on the internet doesn't count.
I'm assuming you've already written and visited with your local Government (but you probably haven't) and voiced your desires to them. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are also engaged with the most vulnerable in the Community and "building bridges". . . honestly though, you're not :/
If you want money to be allocated differently then you must engage the POLITICIANS. If you want to help Society then you must DO SOMETHING.
Complaining on the internet doesn't count.
You must have been on something. The DoD never gave tanks to cops and cops would not want them. This was either a national guard vehicle or not a tank, most likely an MRAP.
I certainly don't agree with our President all the time, but for some he can't do anything right. Maybe he should break out the board and flat iron.
1
Good move Obama. In the UK police don't even carry guns and they have 0 police related fatalities. Now if only Obama would stop sending weapons to Israel and consider the positive impact of that on the subjugated, colonized and oppressed people of Palestine.
1
This is a good move, but of peripheral importance. The military equipment is used rarely and only in extreme situations. As for a federal initiative to reform police practices, I think any commission appointed has a whole lot of research to do before making recommendations. There have been 5 or 6 racially-charged shootings in poor black areas. Many claimed racism. Some talked of trigger happy cops. And those who looked closest at the cases found no criminal violations more often than not. Beyond that, there is evidence of abusing traffic violations in a racist manner and not much else. We don't know what causes problems and what works best. We don't even agree on what's good policing and what's bad. So we are nowhere near ready to reform policing nationwide.
1
While some police departments may have gone overboard in obtaining military equipment, there is the very real issue of dealing with terrorists as well as criminals. In order to protect us from terrorists, the police need sophisticated high tech and lethal equipment. Every time I walk through Grand CentralI I am reminded of terrorists and what they can,do, and I want the NYPD to be fully prepared to combat the bad guys. That said, I hope that military tactics are seldom used on legitimate citizen protests.
3
Timothy McVeigh would never have been noticed by the militarized police, a white veteran fella renting a little ol' U-Haul truck. But after the bombing here, when McVeigh took off, he was caught--not surrounded by tanks, not tear-gassed, nope. A highway trooper stopped him for lack of a tag, and saw a gun and anti-government book on the seat and brought him in. And soon enough, the truth came out.
(As for your hope that military tactics are "seldom" used on legitimate citizen protests, you should do more than hope for that; hope isn't enough when you come right down to it. That was clear even when the Bill of Rights was written; limiting the power of the state was a major concern of theirs, and should be ours, too.)
(As for your hope that military tactics are "seldom" used on legitimate citizen protests, you should do more than hope for that; hope isn't enough when you come right down to it. That was clear even when the Bill of Rights was written; limiting the power of the state was a major concern of theirs, and should be ours, too.)
Is Obama also getting rid of the anti aircraft missiles on the WH and having the Secret Service give up their automatic weapons?
4
Of course not, it is always one rule for our Dear Leader and another for "ordinary" people.
Baltimore proved that the police need access to military equipment when the situation created by the rioters required such equipment. The rioters were throwing bricks and stones, potentially deadly weapons. The police needed protection from the rioters "artillery." The rioters stabbed the fire hose thus preventing the firemen from extinguishing the fires caused by the rioter's arson. Should just one of the rioting scum have started shooting, the U. S. would have even more dead policemen.
The biker gang shootout in Waco, Texas caused nine deaths. The gangs had firearms. Wake up folks, it is getting nasty out there. Obama, give the law enforcement experts the equipment they need for each and every possible situation.
The biker gang shootout in Waco, Texas caused nine deaths. The gangs had firearms. Wake up folks, it is getting nasty out there. Obama, give the law enforcement experts the equipment they need for each and every possible situation.
3
While I'm grateful for this, I'm wondering about the equipment many of these cities already have. There are some cities that actually have rocket launchers including Oakland, California. This program has been rife with abuse and thievery - guns and other equipment have been stolen and not accounted for. Police departments have equipment - powerful equipment. Send this government equipment to the scrap metal heap and be done with it. We don't want - or need - this crap in our communities.
2
This decision could remove the theme from next year's line up of police drama shows.
1
The militarization of police needs to be de-militarized. In other countries they would be called para-military forces. I think most of these Demi-military police, in some cases, are better kitted out than the national guard. They roam cities with their bomb proof tanks, bloused camo pants, machine guns, kevlar helmets and us verses them attitudes. As police have murdered citizens without consiquences I have become more concerned about my safety around these military wannabes than your average street criminal.
5
"In a civilised and developed country why do the police need to be militarised in the first place?"
Dear Little Ninja, I see you write from the United Kingdom, where gun ownership is not really an issue. Here in the United States, we have white men with arsenals in their basements, who (or sometimes whose children) shoot up shopping malls, movie theaters, and schools -- high schools and elementary schools -- or their whole families along with anyone who's visiting. They also go into our national parks and take shots at our rangers. We also have black men who, individually, are in possession of fewer guns but who use them frequently on one another, often hitting passersby in the process.
Some of these guns are purchased legally -- heaven help us -- and others are stolen or bought illegally. They can fire off lots of bullets in just a few seconds. Handy.
I don't mind our police departments having guns to overmatch what our demented citizenry have. And I don't know where it'll all end.
Dear Little Ninja, I see you write from the United Kingdom, where gun ownership is not really an issue. Here in the United States, we have white men with arsenals in their basements, who (or sometimes whose children) shoot up shopping malls, movie theaters, and schools -- high schools and elementary schools -- or their whole families along with anyone who's visiting. They also go into our national parks and take shots at our rangers. We also have black men who, individually, are in possession of fewer guns but who use them frequently on one another, often hitting passersby in the process.
Some of these guns are purchased legally -- heaven help us -- and others are stolen or bought illegally. They can fire off lots of bullets in just a few seconds. Handy.
I don't mind our police departments having guns to overmatch what our demented citizenry have. And I don't know where it'll all end.
1
More important than distribution of Body Cameras is developing a set of laws that mandate full and rapid disclosure of these public records videos to the public or to those in the police footage, without too many exemptions for state secrecy.
3
I would think an issue to confront is that criminals possess similar equipment, why they have access to such equipment is another issue entirely, so now will police will be at a disadvantage?
One can argue that police ignore these organized gangs to begin with, concentrating instead on writing citations for minor crimes, such as jaywalking, etc that are safer to deal with....
BTW the Waco, TX Police chief was quoted this morning saying he had never witnessed such a crime as the multiple shooting that occurred between bike gangs during his 35 yrs in policing...so what have you been doing, not policing the biker gangs is one thing...
One can argue that police ignore these organized gangs to begin with, concentrating instead on writing citations for minor crimes, such as jaywalking, etc that are safer to deal with....
BTW the Waco, TX Police chief was quoted this morning saying he had never witnessed such a crime as the multiple shooting that occurred between bike gangs during his 35 yrs in policing...so what have you been doing, not policing the biker gangs is one thing...
How about a guns for money program for the police ?!! Do we seriously think that these cops-turned-military are going to reverse course ?
5
Thank God that the police in Waco were able to deal with a violent gang war without bringing in armored personnel carriers, full body armor, and so forth. From the photos I have seen, it looked as if the Waco police and Texas Rangers (?) were able to take control with an ordinary deployment of rifles, sidearms, and zip-ties. No tear gas, no armored vehicles, no military formations.
Good for all those brave police officers in Waco. I am proud of them for bringing this gang violence under some kind of control without resorting to massive militarized force.
And without in anyway trying to take credit away from the Waco police or others involved in this shootout, what do we imagine the outcome might have been if it had been an African-American, or Latino, or Asian-American gang battle in Waco?
The Waco police deserve credit for their exemplary behavior. Would that other police forces would be as well-prepared, mentally, as they appear to be.
Good for all those brave police officers in Waco. I am proud of them for bringing this gang violence under some kind of control without resorting to massive militarized force.
And without in anyway trying to take credit away from the Waco police or others involved in this shootout, what do we imagine the outcome might have been if it had been an African-American, or Latino, or Asian-American gang battle in Waco?
The Waco police deserve credit for their exemplary behavior. Would that other police forces would be as well-prepared, mentally, as they appear to be.
63
2015 Everything has changed, including all the photos and news that you receive in your phone.
"What do we imagine the outcome..."
As best I can tell, most people are applauding the police, not shedding a a tear for the deceased thugs, and there are no tv preachers flying to Waco.
As best I can tell, most people are applauding the police, not shedding a a tear for the deceased thugs, and there are no tv preachers flying to Waco.
1
Afro-Americans and Latino gangs do battle everyday in America. They are not limited by this presidential ban. They carry AK47 and other military rifles.
Why address only half of the problem? In an era where decriminalization and release of thousands of prison inmates before their sentences are served is contemplated, would you want your police force to address these threats with puny handguns and short range shotguns?
If citizens are left without protection, don't you think that people will resort to vigilantism?
Why address only half of the problem? In an era where decriminalization and release of thousands of prison inmates before their sentences are served is contemplated, would you want your police force to address these threats with puny handguns and short range shotguns?
If citizens are left without protection, don't you think that people will resort to vigilantism?
1
Why is there so much excess military equipment available? A previous article mentioned that the military was giving it to police departments.
6
Simply put, the US is wasting too much money on military equipment and the military itself. If we spent HALF the amount on our infrastructure instead of bombs this country would be in much better financial shape. As long as the flag wavers and fear mongers are in control the rest of us will continue paying taxes on completely useless projects to keep the pork barrels full.
3
13 years of war has caused a surplus of equipment.
Local Police is key for all Locals to secure the future of the public.
They should be provided best equipment not only to save the public life but their own life. When criminals have all the freedom But Our local police is not free.
They should be provided best equipment not only to save the public life but their own life. When criminals have all the freedom But Our local police is not free.
1
Arish,
Perhaps where you come from, police and the military are the same. That is NOT the case in America.
The police are more than adequately prepared for 'criminals'. If you truly want to support the police, live a crime free life and respect others.
Perhaps where you come from, police and the military are the same. That is NOT the case in America.
The police are more than adequately prepared for 'criminals'. If you truly want to support the police, live a crime free life and respect others.
Yes, the police should have the best equipment, but the best equipment for what they need to do. They do not in almost any case need the equipment and tactics of occupying armies!
"The people are difficult to govern because of the excessive agency of their superiors. It is by this that they are difficult to govern." Tao Te Ching
10
Too late baby! You and the Congress militarized the Police. I don't trust you to demilitarize them.
Despite the equipment, the fact remains that many war veterans entered the Police "Forces". How will you change that?
Despite the equipment, the fact remains that many war veterans entered the Police "Forces". How will you change that?
14
The Presidents just dropping by Camden NJ. If he lived there he'd want a heavily armed police force.
12
Maybe it's time for some serious national gun control so the police don't have to be heavily armed.
I do live in Camden, NJ. I don't want a heavily armed police force.
Why did anyone think this was a good idea in the first place? Did no one on the state of local government levels every ponder the effect of military equipment and uniforms on city streets?
Free equipment plus a dumb idea is still a dumb idea.
Free equipment plus a dumb idea is still a dumb idea.
107
Uh, er, just how many times in any city is there a need fro such artillery? Do we need a "surge" in those cities? Do we need the psychological help of such over powering weaponry? Do we need to become like Darfur, Kabul? Is it really that bad out there? Why do we think it is that bad out there? Have we made our own country into a place for pockets of terrorists? Are drones in order? What message are we sending to the rest of the world? Does anyone care?
What to do about the psychological damage done to officers going through traumatic situations who never fully recover? What to do about those damaged before becoming an Officer?
Band-aid at best.
Let's just sweep it all under the rug, the stock market is doing well, the rich are getting richer, things are well, right?
What to do about the psychological damage done to officers going through traumatic situations who never fully recover? What to do about those damaged before becoming an Officer?
Band-aid at best.
Let's just sweep it all under the rug, the stock market is doing well, the rich are getting richer, things are well, right?
18
Right, then a situation like what just happened in Waco can be dealt with by police using harsh language or pointed sticks....didn't we also see the police under-armed in a bank hoist in L.A. a while back?
They're use of weapons should be regulated-but, not restricted.
They're use of weapons should be regulated-but, not restricted.
5
In a civilised and developed country why do the police need to be militarised in the first place?
204
America has never been a civilized country.
3
If we lived in a civilized country, I would agree with you. Sadly, we don't.
3
Good question. But maybe they are militarized to protect themselves from a 'well regulated militia' in this not so civilised and developed country, a country where even our oh-so-supreme members of SCOTUS can't correctly read a text written in 18th century language when punctuation rules did not exist.
1
Can anyone name instances in which police used military equipment to kill a suspect? The weapons used in controversial police killings have been standard service revolvers, choke holds and batons.
11
The fact that police militarization didn't cause racism and the widespread murder of Black people by police in this country doesn't mean that it's a good thing.
Having the police show up to protests following a murder dressed like soldiers and driving tanks is bad.
Having the police show up to protests following a murder dressed like soldiers and driving tanks is bad.
Would Officer Krupke ever imagined himself driving a tank dressed in camouflage?
8
The little known "terror management theory," which originated in the 1970s, predicted that events such as 9/11 would lead us to neglect civil liberties in our anxious quest for national security. President Obama has just advanced our recovery from an unhealthy police state.
85
An "unhealthy police state" that he has promoted and expanded with extra- judicial killings using drones and the aggressive use of pervasive surveillance. Section 215 of the reactionary Patriot Act is up for review, so call your Congressman and demand an end to the Big Brother conduct of government.
Could he maybe ask the police officers to take off their wrap-around sunglasses, get out of their cars and maybe walk a beat once in a while? You know, talk to the people and learn a little more about the community that they're supposed to "serve and protect"? Perhaps stop looking at us as little more than a piggybank to shake when they want to fund their department? That would be an excellent second step.
245
When the cops look more like milkmen and less like a cross between WWF wrestlers and assault troops we will be making progress, until then I'll continue to be disgusted.
1
During my tenure with the NYPD in the 60s & 70s, the patrol cars did not have air conditioning, so we always had our windows rolled down for much of the time and this certainly facilitated communication with members of the community in which we served. Closed up vehicles inhibit conversation in the same way that ear buds and mirrored sunglasses do; by creating a visual and auditory barrier between people.
"The programs have enjoyed widespread popularity among lawmakers eager to take steps to protect their communities and constantly in search of ways to steer federal money to their districts and states." Nothing promotes a warrior mentality than having all the proper accessories from military vehicles to weapons, to uniforms and obviously that will keep your community safe. Well, if you live in Iraq maybe, here, not so much. The very fact that officers dress as warriors leads to a change in mindset in which the "others" become possible or even likely enemies.
The twin lures, money and increased standing (read strength and power) with fellow LEO's are strong motivators. By golly, "our" officers are ready for anything and don't have to take anything from anybody! We be BAD!!
It is generally not a good plan to have an uncontrollable para military force roaming the streets under the pretext of keeping the community safe.
The twin lures, money and increased standing (read strength and power) with fellow LEO's are strong motivators. By golly, "our" officers are ready for anything and don't have to take anything from anybody! We be BAD!!
It is generally not a good plan to have an uncontrollable para military force roaming the streets under the pretext of keeping the community safe.
77
Add that to an active arms industry who loves more sales.
1
Citizens of communities want a police presence not a presence of soldiers in a war zone i.e. an Afghanistan or a Gaza Strip. With a militarization of our local law enforcement the mentality of serve and protect changes to kill and conquer. Local law enforcement need the best tools available to do their jobs in their role as guardians. Local police departments don't need armored personnel carriers or anti-tank weapons to conduct their jobs safely and effectively.
50
This country has gotten so stupid that it is mind-boggling. If we're not war-mongering overseas we've turned our police into "warriors" with big toys. You can't fix STUPID.
135
This will accomplish nothing other than the generation of applause from reliably liberal media outlets.
Notice the article doesn't cite one instance of improper use of this equipment. The whole issue simply arose in the media's rush to portray the police as villains. It wasn't a problem then and this "action" is a solution to nothing.
More empty posturing from a President who seems to be enabled by a supplicant media to claim these empty political gestures as an accomplishment.
Notice the article doesn't cite one instance of improper use of this equipment. The whole issue simply arose in the media's rush to portray the police as villains. It wasn't a problem then and this "action" is a solution to nothing.
More empty posturing from a President who seems to be enabled by a supplicant media to claim these empty political gestures as an accomplishment.
87
It's absurd to portray this is a liberal thing. A huge number of people on the US right (mostly libertarian leaning types and those associated with the Tea Party) understand that this is a problem, and have been fighting against it for years.
7
uh? Did you see Ferguson? What evidence do you need that military equipment, put in the hands of poorly trained and disciplined local police officers, has resulted in heightened conflicts?
Don't blame Obama, look at reality!
Don't blame Obama, look at reality!
6
This is not about improper use of the equipment. It is about intimidation and putting people into war zones, when they should be working on public safety in ways other than military action.
6
If I'm the bad guy, I'd say this is a victory for me.
9
Obama wants to please everyone while emotions are simmering on all sides.
It is just too late. The hatred and anger is real and Obama is not.
It's them and us.
It is just too late. The hatred and anger is real and Obama is not.
It's them and us.
3
We should be asking why cities like Austin, rated as one of the safest cities in the United States need cast-off military equipment like mine resistant vehicles. It is high time the police focused on building better community relations instead of giving the appearance of going to war against citizens. It is also time to take a hard look at why so much of many city budgets is allocated to police departments instead of programs that are also vital in making our cities safer such as youth programs, libraries, and parks and recreation.
395
You don't build community relations with gangs like MS-13. The only solution is to take them out and imprison them for life.
1
Maybe the reason that Austin is one of the safest cities in the US because of its strong law enforcement?
1
Texas, always the leader, shines brightly to form. Too bad the cops did not have a tank last weekend for the biker brawl, it could have been 90 not 9.
So he's banning the least problematic stuff? The teargas launchers, the sonic weapons, the automatic weapons, the armored personnel carriers, all that stuff stays?
10
Who is better equipped? The gangs or the cops?
Who is more restrained? The gangs or the cops?
Who is more restrained? The gangs or the cops?
7
Is "they're better than gang-bangers" the new police standard now?
1
Well I'm glad it'll no longer be possible for other small towns like Keene, New Hampshire to acquire a BearCat military-grade armored vehicle. I'm not optimistic about reforming policing in this country. Police culture is deeply entrenched and I can't see police forces anywhere admitting that most policing, except for the truly dangerous neighborhoods of some cities, does not require the presence of a firearm. The huge mind shift that needs to take place is for police officers everywhere to recognize that they are here for us and not the other way around. Respect for all citizens all the time and advanced de-escalation skills would be the foundation for sane policing in the future.
128
Face it, all of you, Waco is not run by Democrats, and it wasn't the Texas Rangers, it was the Texas State Troopers, the Highway Patrol as was once called. I love TEXAS! Bring on your liberal ideas and see how it works here where we still use some common sense!
1
Can you please explain what threat an armored vehicle is to anybody? It's a defensive tool -- not a weapon. It could run someone over, but so can a caterpillar tractor.
Yes, most policing does not require the use of a firearm. Indeed, many police officers never unholster their gun during years of duty. But, what does that have to do with this debate. No one is talking about taking pistols away from cops, we're talking about other equipment, most of which is DEFENSIVE. Body armor, armored vehicles.
When you say the police are here for "us," I hope you mean the police are here to protect law abiding citizens from those who would break the law, and not here to serve those who break the law. There is absolutely nothing that happened in Ferguson that called for SERVICE from police. They were not citizens asking police to provide protective services, they were violent criminals intent on destruction and taking of lives (you would have been killed had you been there long).
Yes, most policing does not require the use of a firearm. Indeed, many police officers never unholster their gun during years of duty. But, what does that have to do with this debate. No one is talking about taking pistols away from cops, we're talking about other equipment, most of which is DEFENSIVE. Body armor, armored vehicles.
When you say the police are here for "us," I hope you mean the police are here to protect law abiding citizens from those who would break the law, and not here to serve those who break the law. There is absolutely nothing that happened in Ferguson that called for SERVICE from police. They were not citizens asking police to provide protective services, they were violent criminals intent on destruction and taking of lives (you would have been killed had you been there long).
3
Hooey: I'm sorry, but if you don't understand already how a military vehicle comes across as a threat in community policing I can't explain it to you. One thing that would provide a context would be to experience policing in, say, the UK or Germany. Other countries have just as many bad actors as we do: drug dealers, violent criminals, etc. Yet very rarely will you see the kind of heavy-handed, sometimes brutal and fatal, policing that passes muster all over the United States every day. In my infrequent interactions with police around my own town I have seen far too much disrespect for the public and far too many power trips from overweight officers with shaved heads and the authority only a gun can bring. If, and you seem to agree, firearms aren't really needed most of the time, why not leave them at the station most of the time? And, if we don't really need guns most of the time, why on earth would a civilian police force ever need equipment that is designed to conduct war? If you have evidence that ISIS really does have designs on Keene, New Hampshire, I'll take all this back.
5
Excellent move by the President. It's hard to defuse tense situations and build trust between residents and police when they're mounted on tanks or using weapons better suited for Middle East wars.
The sights and photos of such weapons used following last August's shooting of Michael Brown were hard to watch. If a picture speaks a thousand words, the graphic messages sent and tweeted out round the globe were hardly one of freedom and justice for all.
The sights and photos of such weapons used following last August's shooting of Michael Brown were hard to watch. If a picture speaks a thousand words, the graphic messages sent and tweeted out round the globe were hardly one of freedom and justice for all.
272
How about the televised looting and burning in Ferguson? Was that tough to watch?
5
The police didn't kill, maim, or seriously injure a single person during the recent riots, even though rioters were harming dozens of people and destroying the community around them. They police were the only people maintaining law and order while our fellow civilians were knowingly destroying other people's lives.
if "Freedom And Justice For All" includes allowing a mob to wreck havoc to their heart's content, I'd rather settle for law and order.
if "Freedom And Justice For All" includes allowing a mob to wreck havoc to their heart's content, I'd rather settle for law and order.
2
The only thing they did wrong was to hold their fire. That insurrection should have been put down immediately, with no mercy. That was a riot and rebellion, not a civil rights event.
2
So the cops wont have this equipment but the crooks will get it somehow.
Obama... Jan 20, 2017 cant come soon enough.
Obama... Jan 20, 2017 cant come soon enough.
5
Really? The gangs will have access to tanks and mine sweepers? Try not to be so dramatic.
19
Now we have mine sweepers Since when did this go nautical?
1
Thanks to gun manufacturers brilliant, ever-expanding marketing campaigns via the NRA and millions spent lobbying congress, the "crooks will" indeed continue to get their guns.
2
What Obama is doing is a start, but only a start. There appears to be a mindset that is at the core of the issue and while I think this move will help, I doubt it will cure it. There needs to be some screening done on applicants and lots of training, and not just classroom training to somehow reshape attitudes regarding their missions. And as was shown in the shootout in Waco last night among biker gangs, there are way too many guns on the streets for a policeman to feel safe.
3
Great move. No surer way to get the police to act like they are at war, then to get them suited up as if they were. The equipment that is needed to respond to extreme situations is there, and the police always show up fully prepared when needed, which is very appreciable. But, the rest of the time, they are a part of the community and should be on the streets in a way that better reflects that.
135
The safety of the police officers is obviously the last consideration in Obamas recommendation. Police are to be reduced to record keepers, where they will take a report of the crime against you but will do nothing to arrest the thug because it may involve violence and result in the thug being hurt and riots breaking out. The picture say it all about the bias of NYT. People are NOT being shot here with their arms raised!
25
"Thug" - the latest code word for black. You are right - if the police no longer deploy half tracks and fully automatic weapons then they are going to be completely helpless.
11
Please explain how camo pants, AR-15 rifles and armored vehicles has contributed to police safety. Take your time.
5
uwteacher, I have to say you're right about "thug". It's on all the southern lips down here that used to use the n-word.
2
How is this not enabling minority crime and civil unrest? It is as though he WANTS conflict, violence, mayhem in the black communities. This is about as racist a decree that I have seen.
10
Military equipment such as camouflage suits and tracked armored vehicles serve no practical purpose to local police departments other than to intimidate civilians. How is THAT in anyway DISabling crime and civil unrest?
I recognize that not everyone is a fan of Jon Stewart, but he truly said it best when he pointed out that all those who have cried wolf for decades about tyrannical government sending in "jack-booted thugs" to take their guns and strip them of their civil liberties need wait no more: your local police (government officers, mind you) are now equipped with machine guns and tanks for no apparent reason.
Bravo to the White House for doing what they can to limit this ridiculous practice.
I recognize that not everyone is a fan of Jon Stewart, but he truly said it best when he pointed out that all those who have cried wolf for decades about tyrannical government sending in "jack-booted thugs" to take their guns and strip them of their civil liberties need wait no more: your local police (government officers, mind you) are now equipped with machine guns and tanks for no apparent reason.
Bravo to the White House for doing what they can to limit this ridiculous practice.
12
How is taking away some of the unnecessary war toys from the police a racist act? Maybe if they don't dress as if they're going to war, they won't behave that way.
11
The word "racist" has apparently lost all meaning.
4
As long as he just limits it to predator drones and anything nuclear I'm fine with it all.
4
Six and half years into his presidency, with only 1.5 years to go, Obama will make a minimal gesture to limit the militarization of the police?
18
As long as everyone knows just who's behavior needs to be observed and controlled for the betterment of us all.
And then the biggest example of squandered leadership in the history of this country will himself be largely removed as an obsticle to re-establishing the Law and Order which still mtters to the silent majority.
1
They call that closing the barn door after all the horses have gotten out. Local police around the country have been arming themselves to their teeth with military weaponry (and deadly tactics) for 25 years. How do you unring that bell Obama? NOT by asking procurement groups to please consider kindly to stop buying more assault guns and tanks,... they already have that. Now they want drones, gasses & chemical delivery methods and advanced surveillance technology.
10
As to militarization, take note that Chiefs of Police and other high ranking officers used to wear eagle collar pins that equated to the military rank of Colonel or one star in the case of sheriffs. Now, they are all four star generals in command of black clad tactical assault teams armed to the teeth. Police used to be "peace officers" protecting the public from criminals - now they are "law enforcers" high handedly protecting the public from ourselves.
5
It seems not too long ago we were lamenting the police were outgunned by LA street gangs and Jamaican drug traffickers.
Even so I don't see how heavily armed police contributed to our current problems. Armored vehicles and camouflaged uniforms seem useful. I believe this is a conspiracy to get liberals on the "too much guv'ment" band wagon
Even so I don't see how heavily armed police contributed to our current problems. Armored vehicles and camouflaged uniforms seem useful. I believe this is a conspiracy to get liberals on the "too much guv'ment" band wagon
3
Thank you, Mr. President, for taking a large step toward reversing the un-American trampling upon our liberties in the wake of 911 and in the name of national security. Now, if you'd just reverse your position on TPP -- or at least allow an open and fulsome public debate on TPP -- this liberal Democrat just might believe in you again.
42
Obama lost me when I read about the TPP 2 yrs ago.
3
Will the President be limiting Military style equipment for the Criminals as well?
36
Which "military style equipment" and which criminals have any such equipment?
10
That is a great point. He should be banning hand guns as well.
3
Talk to Wayne LaPierre and the NRA about that.
8
The restrictions should not cover local anti-terrorism squads. Agreed - the cop on the beat does not need an M-4 and a half track to disperse protesters. Pretty clear that their side arms take enough lives.
14
It is hard to understand why any white police officer would willingly work in inner city black neighborhoods. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most critics of police officers have no experience dealing with violence and could charitably be called arm chair quarterbacks.