Yes Collins is a throwback to the old days. And as I've got ten years on him I can remember when a handful of minor-league-honed baseball lifers were irrespective of merit routinely shuffled among the then sixteen available jobs in the MLs. Some of 'em won (when the they had the players), and some were entertaining as all hell (the ol' perfesser Casey Stengel, for example). But most were unimaginative hacks, answerable to the then all powerful owners and front offices, whose apparently transcendent recommendation was that they were all exactly like every other member of a very limited fraternity. Fred Haney never won anywhere, but he always seemed to have a job.
Every baseball season, so much ink is spilled over the hiring and firing of managers, and yet rarely do I see this report from 538 discussed: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-managers-are-headed-to-the-hall...
In a nutshell, the analysis concludes that the manager has very little impact on a team's record in the long run, as most are essentially mediocre and there is often a lack of sufficient data to draw definitive conclusions about an individual manager's performance. There are outliers (Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa), but statistically speaking a new manager isn't likely to increase a team's win total by any significant amount.
So as a Mets fan, I couldn't care less whether we stick with Terry Collins, replace him with Wally Backman, or heck, send Sandy Alderson down to the dugout. What I care about is who's on the mound, in the field, and at the plate. That's what really matters.
In a nutshell, the analysis concludes that the manager has very little impact on a team's record in the long run, as most are essentially mediocre and there is often a lack of sufficient data to draw definitive conclusions about an individual manager's performance. There are outliers (Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa), but statistically speaking a new manager isn't likely to increase a team's win total by any significant amount.
So as a Mets fan, I couldn't care less whether we stick with Terry Collins, replace him with Wally Backman, or heck, send Sandy Alderson down to the dugout. What I care about is who's on the mound, in the field, and at the plate. That's what really matters.
Did you read the piece you cited? Where it says "As is always the case with calculations like these, it’s too simplistic to look at the small range of talent and conclude that Major League managers don’t matter."
And no one ever needed the numbers to prove, as Casey Stengel pointed out many years before in a much more colorful way "I couldn't have done it without my players."
And Sparky Anderson didn't need his calculator to back up this: "I don't believe a manager ever won a pennant. Casey Stengel won all those pennants with the Yankees. How many did he win with the Boston Braves and Mets?"
The real message, as in most areas of life, is that most don't matter-- but some do. There are 22 managers in the hall of fame somebody thought mattered.
And while Stengel didn't win with the Mets he was perfect for the time.
He also, as in most things, had the most wisdom and the best quotes:
"If you're playing baseball and thinking about managing, you're crazy. You'd be better off thinking about being an owner."
Think Connie Mack who made it 50 years as manager.
And no one ever needed the numbers to prove, as Casey Stengel pointed out many years before in a much more colorful way "I couldn't have done it without my players."
And Sparky Anderson didn't need his calculator to back up this: "I don't believe a manager ever won a pennant. Casey Stengel won all those pennants with the Yankees. How many did he win with the Boston Braves and Mets?"
The real message, as in most areas of life, is that most don't matter-- but some do. There are 22 managers in the hall of fame somebody thought mattered.
And while Stengel didn't win with the Mets he was perfect for the time.
He also, as in most things, had the most wisdom and the best quotes:
"If you're playing baseball and thinking about managing, you're crazy. You'd be better off thinking about being an owner."
Think Connie Mack who made it 50 years as manager.
Yes, the talent matters but if the manager really did not make a difference - they simply wouldn't have one. In the article, the Marlins firing and then hiring of Jack McKeon is a perfect example. He took a losing team and with the same talent guided them to be WS Champs. Buck Showalter took over for a very losing Juan Samuel and turned the Orioles' fortunes around. True, the manager can't hit for them or pitch for them but a good manager makes such a difference - how to talk to rookies, how to handle veterans, knowing when to rest a player, knowing when to give a reliever another inning, etc. Ask players who have played for great managers, they'll tell you. (And no, Collins is not a good big league manager. They've done nothing but lose under him and his misuse of the bullpen and the bench is infamous among loyal Mets fans.)
Quick get Cashman a uniform!!!!
I'm one of the few (it seems) Met fans who likes Collin's effort as manager. The players play hard for him despite the lack of talent during his tenure. The players also know their roles, which is important in todays game.
He is now facing a dfifferent test, as expectations are much higher. probably higher than they should be---the youing pitching has arrived, but the young position players are a year or two away. Regardless of the latter, he is expected to win now.
Most managers who rule over a rebuilding team are eventually booed, as when talent is lacking, most pitching changes and pinch-hitting fails. It is unusual for them to remain with the team when talent arrives, and it finally starts to win. I am hoping that Collins is allowed to stay and manage a more talented team. He has earned the opportunity.
He is now facing a dfifferent test, as expectations are much higher. probably higher than they should be---the youing pitching has arrived, but the young position players are a year or two away. Regardless of the latter, he is expected to win now.
Most managers who rule over a rebuilding team are eventually booed, as when talent is lacking, most pitching changes and pinch-hitting fails. It is unusual for them to remain with the team when talent arrives, and it finally starts to win. I am hoping that Collins is allowed to stay and manage a more talented team. He has earned the opportunity.
1
Asking Terry Collins about managing a baseball team or the career path of a baseball manager is like asking GW Bush for foreign policy expertise.
Really Mr. Kepner this is the best you can do?
Really Mr. Kepner this is the best you can do?
3
Terry Collins is a perfect example for Mr. Kepner's article. Sorry you have a problem with him.
2
Funny!
Why not Brett Butler?
There is one other bog difference between managers today and managers of yesteryear. It used to be that managers relied on sports writers to make them sound articulate. Yes, some were articulate, but sports writers always put in their two cents. Indeed, “back in the day” it was often expected that the writers created characters, from managers to shortstops to outfielders. These days it is expected that the manager will be articulate (and most of them are) and will give interviews before, after and even during (if you watch the national broadcasts) games.
1