I am retired. I only drive when I want to drive and, when I want to drive, I don’t want to drive a Prius.
4
This, in my view, is a bogus article. The bulk of it cites an off Subaru driver. How many of us actually do that? The American public is, unfortunately, a short-sighted, live for the moment lot. When gas prices return to the 3.50-4.00 range, I'll be even more happy with my hybrid.
1
Low gas prices fit my definition of a hiccough. I hope the automobile industry doesn't stop seeking to better mileage. It would be a crying shame.
Students of the auto industry know that hybrid and plug-in sales started dropping nearly a year before the big fall off in fuel prices. Those who consider Americans foolish and shortsighted for not buying more of these vehicles should be aware that consumers in the United States buy more hybrids, plug-ins and EVs than do those in any other country or region in the world. Even with petrol and diesel fuel hovering around $7 a gallon in Europe, Americans buy more electrified vehicles than do Europeans. The same goes for China, which offers far more generous subsidies for "new generation vehicles" than does the United States. The market has spoken loud and clear. After a quarter of a century of being offered in dealer showrooms, electrified vehicles still only account for about 3% of industry sales.
2
Once the younger crowd realized that the fact of greenhouse gases and the hypothesis of human-effected global warming are two completely different kettles of fish, they realized that they were being had.
I'm actually a little disappointed because when one of my friends bought a hybrid, it made me more comfortably buying a Suburban with a turbo engine.
I'm actually a little disappointed because when one of my friends bought a hybrid, it made me more comfortably buying a Suburban with a turbo engine.
2
The gas tax should be automatically adjusted for inflation. Without that, there won't be repairs for the roads these clowns drive on. The National Highway Trust Fund is broke.
3
Was this article written in Feb./March of 2015 or May 14th as the date states? IF May 14th, then will someone clue me in to what news and/or daily life do people march to? Since the low point of oil in Mid March, the price per oil has climbed over 20%. These are the same fools who elect the same people into office year in and year out and who are more than willing to see the gas tax increased because they have drank all the kool-aide.
2
By failing to raise gas taxes while gas prices are low the US is once again missing an opportunity to raise money and influence consumer behaviour. I can hear the familiar refrain: taxes. can. never. increase.
4
People buy what they think fits their needs and lifestyle. In NYC you don't need a hybrid, in fact don'r even need a car. Ever try to carry garden supplies, plywood, or other bulky items? What works in NY or SF may not work out here.
2
[Facepalm]...It would be one thing if people were buying conventional versions of hybrid vehicles (say, swapping a Prius for a Camry or a Prius C for a Yaris), but the fact that people are switching from $25,000 hybrids to $30,000 SUVs because the price of gas went down just goes to demonstrate our chronic financial stupidity. If you buy a vehicle that a) costs more b) costs more to maintain and c) costs more to fuel, than that hybrid would have saved money even if gas were FREE.
8
Sad how stupid, shortsighted and piggish we Americans are. What will happen to gas prices when Saudi Arabia & Iran decide to nuke it out?
6
Hopefully, as with India and Pakistan when they came close to flipping a few at each other circa 1980's, the World's industrialized nations, again in bipartisan cooperation, will rise together and 'encourage' them to dial it down a few notches...
1
I agree Sophia, just because oil prices went down, it only meant people were paying £100 instead of £120 to fill their tank. It makes no sense you are getting ripped off, convert to hybrid or plug-in electric eco cars and save money. Also save the planet by not polluting the atmosphere with CO2. Not bad really. Lots of hybrid cars are for sale today see https://www.ecocars4sale.com/category/hybrid-vehicles and take a look. If you want to be really clean go fully electric with cars like the Nissan Leaf.
1
If it is silly when people buy larger cars when gas prices fall, why isn't it silly that people buy hybrid cars when gas prices rise? By the way, OPEC is forecasting oil prices to be less than $100 a barrel for the next decade.
Interesting that Erik mentions winter driving as a motivation. California chain control regulations promote this sort of thinking, biasing 4-wheel drive over snow tires. As somebody who has plenty of subcompact winter driving experience in Vermont and Quebec as well as CA hwys 50, 88 and 89, I'll suggest that there are a lot of drivers who should chuckle at his claim that a civic is a "white knuckle experience" in snow.
In fairness to him though, the benefit of hybrids has been oversold. Numerous studies have put the total global warming impact of hybrid and electric vehicles at only 10-20% better than comparable gas vehicles and often note that, due to batteries, water quality impact is worse with electric vehicles. This largely has to do with (a) 50% of a car's impact accrued in manufacturing (b) the state of grid which still very much relies on fossil fuels. A car with average gas mileage but lasting many years may very well be a better bet.
In fairness to him though, the benefit of hybrids has been oversold. Numerous studies have put the total global warming impact of hybrid and electric vehicles at only 10-20% better than comparable gas vehicles and often note that, due to batteries, water quality impact is worse with electric vehicles. This largely has to do with (a) 50% of a car's impact accrued in manufacturing (b) the state of grid which still very much relies on fossil fuels. A car with average gas mileage but lasting many years may very well be a better bet.
3
I swtiched to a Lexus Hybrrid last year and absolutly love going to the pump and filling up for $26 or less. And I love the quiet noise. So I would never switch back to an noise generating gas guzzler. No matter how low gas prices go.
3
Buying an SUV is a gamble, no one knows when the next fuel crisis will occur or the next disaster like Sandy when people were waiting all day for gas if you could find a station that had any at all. Hybrids on the other hand provide not only much higher resale values and tax credits but much more independence from the pump.
During the Bush administration when gas soared to nearly $5 gal. people were trying to unload their SUVs only to find that that the was no demand, consequently, heavy losses on the original purchase price. We Americans take cheap gas for granted and have a very short memory.
During the Bush administration when gas soared to nearly $5 gal. people were trying to unload their SUVs only to find that that the was no demand, consequently, heavy losses on the original purchase price. We Americans take cheap gas for granted and have a very short memory.
4
We are the reverse of this article. Three weeks ago just bought a Prius after test-driving what we thought would be our car of choice--a Subaru Forrester.
When doing our research, we learned something the article doesn't mention when comparing the financials. It's the "deal-factor"-- the comparison between the Forrester and Prius when gas prices are (temporarily) low and Prius deals are great.
We really liked the Forrester and it's had great reviews from Consumer Reports for years. But we weren’t thrilled with the gas mileage, even though it was "good" for an SUV. (We just don't trust that cheap gas will stay cheap.)
It occurred to us, that, for now, with gas prices below $3 a gallon, there might finally be deals on a Prius (which as a hatchback, has similar utility to an SUV for us). And there were! With the deals, the Prius came in at just about the same price as the Forrester model we considered.
We just took our Prius from Long Island to Maine for vacation and got about 52 mpg--in fact one of the highlights of our trip was watching the mpg climb above 50 and stay. It was a treat to drive and very comfortable for driver and passenger. It managed hill climbing without a problem, held a lot of luggage, charged phones the whole way, ran AC, and still got great mileage!
Oh, one more thing: Consumer Reports just named the Prius as one of the top-ten most reliable cars to last 200,000 miles with minimal repairs. I'd call that a good investment.
When doing our research, we learned something the article doesn't mention when comparing the financials. It's the "deal-factor"-- the comparison between the Forrester and Prius when gas prices are (temporarily) low and Prius deals are great.
We really liked the Forrester and it's had great reviews from Consumer Reports for years. But we weren’t thrilled with the gas mileage, even though it was "good" for an SUV. (We just don't trust that cheap gas will stay cheap.)
It occurred to us, that, for now, with gas prices below $3 a gallon, there might finally be deals on a Prius (which as a hatchback, has similar utility to an SUV for us). And there were! With the deals, the Prius came in at just about the same price as the Forrester model we considered.
We just took our Prius from Long Island to Maine for vacation and got about 52 mpg--in fact one of the highlights of our trip was watching the mpg climb above 50 and stay. It was a treat to drive and very comfortable for driver and passenger. It managed hill climbing without a problem, held a lot of luggage, charged phones the whole way, ran AC, and still got great mileage!
Oh, one more thing: Consumer Reports just named the Prius as one of the top-ten most reliable cars to last 200,000 miles with minimal repairs. I'd call that a good investment.
9
Hybrid vehicles will always be a gimmicky approach to fuel savings. Zero emission all electric vehicles that are affordable is where every automobile designer should be going. Expanding charging networks and using existing battery technology to give drivers 300 miles of range on a charge is what we should be pushing for as a nation.
2
This makes so much sense since obviously gasoline prices will never go back up.
3
I owned a 2000 Honda Insight (that I sold two years ago to my sister-in-law and she still drives it daily even with over 200,000 miles on the odometer), and a 2005 Prius that is also getting very long in the tooth (>180,000). Both cars have been outrageously reliable and, whatever the level of gas prices, have saved us many thousands of dollars over the years.
I actually welcome this trend, because the Prius is ripe now for replacement, probably (but not certainly) with another Prius. We are actively shopping around and are MOST pleased the way the dealers have begun to discount them, more heavily every week.
Hey, maybe we'll even be able to afford a Plug-In. I just wish that the Tesla D would become somehow affordable, but I seriously doubt that'll be happenin' any time soon.
I actually welcome this trend, because the Prius is ripe now for replacement, probably (but not certainly) with another Prius. We are actively shopping around and are MOST pleased the way the dealers have begun to discount them, more heavily every week.
Hey, maybe we'll even be able to afford a Plug-In. I just wish that the Tesla D would become somehow affordable, but I seriously doubt that'll be happenin' any time soon.
1
This article fails to mention that charging an all electric vehicle still costs lest than $1 a gallon equivalent, therefore it is always going to be cheaper to run an electric vehicle than a gasoline one. Hybrids really are only a bridge to fully electric vehicles; the big motor company brand hybrids are terrible vehicles compared to the latest all electric vehicles. One has to only look at Tesla electric vehicles. When they release the model 3 in 2017 that will be a true game changer. A 35K (before tax incentive) high performance long range electric vehicle that costs less than a $1 a gallon equivalent to fuel; now that will be attractive regardless of price of fuel. The maintenance costs of an electric vehicle will be far lower as well, as there will be no oil changes, transmission fluid changes, etc. In the long run electric vehicles will take over a large part of our fleet. When a range of an electric vehicle is 200miles, what is the advantage to having a gas vehicle?
1
As someone who's owned an EV for 2-1/2 years and driven it 9,200 miles in that time, I'd like to say that your "Less than $1 a gallon equivalent" is not true. You have omitted the cost of replacing the EV battery.
Even if you don't replace it yourself, you will pay a replacement cost in the form of higher depreciation upon sale. If you don't believe me, check the depreciation numbers for cars. You will see that the Nissan LEAF consistent has the worst depreciation record of any car on the road.
Also, here in Washington State, there's a flat $100 annual fee on EVs that's billed as a gas tax replacement. As with everything else tax-wise in this state, that's a lie -- if replacing gas taxes were the aim, the fee would be about $25. But it's a fact nonetheless, and must be included in any meaningful comparison between electricity and gas prices.
Include the cost of replacing an EV battery, and the cost of my state's EV fee, and the price of an "e-gallon" is $2.87. That's about even with the price of gas around here lately. All this, for a vehicle that goes about 60 miles between charges. I can't say I blame people who are buying gas vehicles rather than electrics.
Even if you don't replace it yourself, you will pay a replacement cost in the form of higher depreciation upon sale. If you don't believe me, check the depreciation numbers for cars. You will see that the Nissan LEAF consistent has the worst depreciation record of any car on the road.
Also, here in Washington State, there's a flat $100 annual fee on EVs that's billed as a gas tax replacement. As with everything else tax-wise in this state, that's a lie -- if replacing gas taxes were the aim, the fee would be about $25. But it's a fact nonetheless, and must be included in any meaningful comparison between electricity and gas prices.
Include the cost of replacing an EV battery, and the cost of my state's EV fee, and the price of an "e-gallon" is $2.87. That's about even with the price of gas around here lately. All this, for a vehicle that goes about 60 miles between charges. I can't say I blame people who are buying gas vehicles rather than electrics.
3
I have a hybrid Toyota Highlander. I love it, I love the gas mileage, the handling and I never worry about driving in the snow or off road. When it is time to retire this car, I hope to be able to get another one (though I don't really like the looks of the most recent model). There is a serious shortage of larger hybrids. Imagine how well a hybrid Sienna minivan or a Forerunner would sell!
2
What a downer. One would have hoped that people were buying hybrids and EVs because they cared about their future, not to mention their children's and grandchildren's future. Clearly though, all they care about is saving a few bucks at the pump. Human beings will never survive if they can't look beyond their own navels and take the long view. With such shortsightedness, we are surely doomed.
2
Try buying gas in southern California. $3.79 per gallon in a cheap gas station. What gives?
Fossil fuels are finite and Americans memories are short. Need I say more.
3
Those trading in their civic/prius hybrids for an SUV are not environmentalists: they bought their hybrids for the aura/expected monetary savings in gas, not a priority for a true environmentalist. New sales at current gas prices will be mostly from first timers. Big auto COULD improve mpg of all cars by adding the auto engine shutoff feature that hybrids have.
Beyond that, shortsightedness and a lot of the same old tired garbage:
- a hybrid holds its price differential value for the first few years: gas savings is a feature with a value
- what if I want to keep the car more than 7 years, when the battery COULD go? (newer li-ion batteries last much longer than the old NiMH batteries that had 8-10 year/100k mile warranties, and without the deterioration and balancing problems)
- what if I don't want to keep the car the 9 years it takes for payback in gas savings @ current prices? (didn't the car already die at 7 years? the car will still command a premium for the first few years as stated above)
- replacing the hybrid battery is too expensive, $5000 (3rd party replacement for the old NiMH batteries (better quality/price than the dealer) is as low as $1800 (do it yourself replacement is not complicated), BUT, one can buy a grid charger for under $300, as I did, to rejuvenate the original battery - my 2004 civic is on the 11th year of its original battery
- I don't get the promised mileage with my hybrid (nobody gets the promised mileage with ANY car)
Beyond that, shortsightedness and a lot of the same old tired garbage:
- a hybrid holds its price differential value for the first few years: gas savings is a feature with a value
- what if I want to keep the car more than 7 years, when the battery COULD go? (newer li-ion batteries last much longer than the old NiMH batteries that had 8-10 year/100k mile warranties, and without the deterioration and balancing problems)
- what if I don't want to keep the car the 9 years it takes for payback in gas savings @ current prices? (didn't the car already die at 7 years? the car will still command a premium for the first few years as stated above)
- replacing the hybrid battery is too expensive, $5000 (3rd party replacement for the old NiMH batteries (better quality/price than the dealer) is as low as $1800 (do it yourself replacement is not complicated), BUT, one can buy a grid charger for under $300, as I did, to rejuvenate the original battery - my 2004 civic is on the 11th year of its original battery
- I don't get the promised mileage with my hybrid (nobody gets the promised mileage with ANY car)
1
“We’d all like to save the environment, but maybe not when it costs hundreds of dollars per year,”
Gasoline prices should never, ever go down...in light of this troglodytic reasoning, especially.
Gasoline prices should never, ever go down...in light of this troglodytic reasoning, especially.
3
I'm retiring soon. I am putting solar panels on my house and I am 'over sizing' my system to pay for more then just the energy that my house uses. Soon I will have no electric bill and, foresight/oversizing means, I will have an electric weed wacker, and electric chain saw, an electric lawn mower and oh yea, an electric car. I will have next to zero electric costs and I won't be buying any gas for anything. I'm planning ahead for Teslas battery storage system too.
2
I don't know if I really believe this. Not everyone who is buying hybrids and electrics are doing it because of gas prices. There are plenty of environmentally concious people out here and we're not fooled by the ups and downs of gasoline prices.
3
This is so depressing. Everyone cares about climate change unless they are inconvenienced in the least little bit. I love my electric car and I'm proud to be an early adopter. Yes I wish it were more convenient at times but the thought of just giving up makes me physically ill. Do people not know how bad things are going to get or do they just not care about the future generations of people or wildlife.
1
Down in Russia gasoline prices change according to good will of our most beloved president. That is why the prices go up taking no notice of crude oil market. So you understand me - our household owns a 2009 Prius and do not want to change it. Along with economy we love the futuristic exterior, silence and ability to start working during -35 degrees in Celsius.
Must be an election coming. If you look at the swing in oil prices, they correspond directly to Presidential elections. Oil prices are manipulated by the Republicans and their minions a year or so prior to the election, then rocket back up right afterward.
With regard to hybrids, I'd gladly drive one but they are simply awful to drive for the most part. I drove a Prius rental and was just stunned by how terrible it was to drive. Gutless, noisy, scary handling.
With regard to hybrids, I'd gladly drive one but they are simply awful to drive for the most part. I drove a Prius rental and was just stunned by how terrible it was to drive. Gutless, noisy, scary handling.
1
Even with the SUV and light truck drivers that upset many people here, per capita oil use is down in the US. After peaking at about 3.5 gallons per person per day in the late 1970's, consumption dropped to between 2.8 and 3.0 gallons through the 80's, 90's, and early 00's, and then dropped to 2.5 gallons in the past 10 years.
The problem is that the number of people has gone up more than average vehicle efficiency. If not for population growth, total oil consumption in the US would be back where it was in the early 60's, and still heading down.
The problem is that the number of people has gone up more than average vehicle efficiency. If not for population growth, total oil consumption in the US would be back where it was in the early 60's, and still heading down.
Does this include flying? People seem to be flying a lot more although I am sure (by that I mean I would hope) flying has gotten more efficient. Also plastics seem to have gone way up.
Am I the only one who remembers the heady days of 2008? Gas was averaging $4.10/gallon. The hot item in the auto market was a used Geo Metro, circa 1998, because they got over 45mpg. Car buyers were getting into bidding wars over 10-year-old cheap subcompacts because of gas prices.
Way, way back in early summer of 2013 gas was averaging near $3.70/gallon. Crude oil has bounced back from $45/barrel to $60/barrel in just the past 8 weeks. It could easily be back in the $100/barrel range in a year or so.
This also omits the risk in oil price fluctuations. I see an efficient car as partly an insurance policy. One untoward incident in the Middle East and we could see $5/gallon gas here in no time. For me, that would be a minor annoyance. Someone filling a 26 gallon tank on a GMC Yukon every week would be in a world of hurt.
Way, way back in early summer of 2013 gas was averaging near $3.70/gallon. Crude oil has bounced back from $45/barrel to $60/barrel in just the past 8 weeks. It could easily be back in the $100/barrel range in a year or so.
This also omits the risk in oil price fluctuations. I see an efficient car as partly an insurance policy. One untoward incident in the Middle East and we could see $5/gallon gas here in no time. For me, that would be a minor annoyance. Someone filling a 26 gallon tank on a GMC Yukon every week would be in a world of hurt.
2
Hybrids just aren't for everyone. Of course it's silly that SUV sales rise when gas prices fall, but hybrids have their trade-offs, as others have pointed out: higher initial cost, the battery has to go somewhere, and they drive differently, which is a nice way to say they're boring to drive. Their sales were probably helped by tax incentives that are now gone, except for the plug-ins. Hybrids aren't popular in Europe, which favors diesels, mass transit, and denser living, to good effect.
I'm just as concerned about fuel economy as the next guy, and I'm just not convinced the hybrid benefits are worth the tradeoffs. There are many lifestyle and city planning choices that come into play as well. We live close to work, school, and play, and can often walk and bike to where we need to go. When we do drive, at most it's only a few miles at a time, or it's long distance highway, which isn't the hybrid's forte anyway. For the record, we have no SUVs, but I just bought a mid-sized sedan that's entertaining to drive, has a stick shift, and is rated at 37 mpg on the highway, which is higher than the rating of my subcompact car. That's progress, without sacrificing the utility and the enjoyment.
I'm just as concerned about fuel economy as the next guy, and I'm just not convinced the hybrid benefits are worth the tradeoffs. There are many lifestyle and city planning choices that come into play as well. We live close to work, school, and play, and can often walk and bike to where we need to go. When we do drive, at most it's only a few miles at a time, or it's long distance highway, which isn't the hybrid's forte anyway. For the record, we have no SUVs, but I just bought a mid-sized sedan that's entertaining to drive, has a stick shift, and is rated at 37 mpg on the highway, which is higher than the rating of my subcompact car. That's progress, without sacrificing the utility and the enjoyment.
As long as a variety of vehicle types are available at an affordable price, why does the author need to offer his useless commentary (read stupid hybrid owners). Maybe hybrids aren't the sexiest vehicles and aren't suitable for the backcountry, but forgive us who commute 500 miles per week for not paying up the nose to the greedy oil companies and auto manufacturers. The same author will be publishing the public's whining diatribes over gas prices rising 30 cents in a month.
1
There was a time when the Hummer was King and then it wasn't. It would be stupid for automakers to bank on big inefficient vehicles as consumers decisions can turn on a dime.
However two positives are emerging: 1) whatever the reason (CAFE, standards) SUVS/Pickups are way more efficient than they use to be. Hybrids need to find even greater efficiencies to keep them cost effective, the fact the GM is not pulling an EV1 (GM earlier attempt at electric cars) with the Volt is good. it needs to stay in the game.
2) This should mean that there is an overall lower entry fee into hybrids, for those willing to buy a used Hybrid. Incidentally in my neck of the woods, used hybrids are commanding a premium.
However two positives are emerging: 1) whatever the reason (CAFE, standards) SUVS/Pickups are way more efficient than they use to be. Hybrids need to find even greater efficiencies to keep them cost effective, the fact the GM is not pulling an EV1 (GM earlier attempt at electric cars) with the Volt is good. it needs to stay in the game.
2) This should mean that there is an overall lower entry fee into hybrids, for those willing to buy a used Hybrid. Incidentally in my neck of the woods, used hybrids are commanding a premium.
1
About the only way a hybrid car makes sense if people can do their daily commute with it. Charge at home, charge at work, no gasoline all week. With solar panels on the roof in a sunny climate, the fuel cost of driving to work could go to zero. The plans for the new Volt sound like they are on track.
The Prius is an idea whose time is past. The efficiency of gasoline power is improving so fast that nearly 50 mpg is on the near horizon. In fact, one manufacturer is promising 47 mpg with a technologically updated older engine (Audi).
None of this means we should be switching to SUVs. Those are special purpose vehicles that never should have been adopted for mass use. Not only do they consume too much fuel, the cost is at least 5 to 10 dollars higher PLUS there is an estimated 5X's higher chance you will kill someone in another vehicle in a crash. Not good.
SUVs became popular in America as the roads got more crowded. Many drivers use them as instruments of intimidation, tailgating and cutting into traffic at will. They are used to indicate that the owner lives a life of outdoor, off road adventure when, in fact, they go back and forth to the grocery store just like the rest of the cars and trucks.
We need to be looking at really serious improvements in personal transportation, electric and hydrogen power plus completely new forms not yet invented.
2
Hybrids made sense in theory for short trips to the store, but not to take a drive.
We love the open road and always have.
If we all hadn't replaced laptop batteries, maybe we'd be less suspicious of cars running on them.
Many people doubt they are killing mother earth by driving around, the global warming scare peaked probably last winter.
The ideal car fuel is natural gas, but it may be awhile before many use it. It produces 25% less CO2 than gasoline and the USA has plenty of it.
We love the open road and always have.
If we all hadn't replaced laptop batteries, maybe we'd be less suspicious of cars running on them.
Many people doubt they are killing mother earth by driving around, the global warming scare peaked probably last winter.
The ideal car fuel is natural gas, but it may be awhile before many use it. It produces 25% less CO2 than gasoline and the USA has plenty of it.
I own one of each: An electric car that I use in the city. and a one-ton pickup that I use for road trips. I like both of them. They each have their advantages and disadvantages, but I find the smugness and self-righteousness of the "EVangelists," not to mention the gross exaggeration of benefits and minimization of negatives, nearly intolerable.
I make a point of telling curious onlookers that I bought my EV for curiosity's sake. And that it goes 60 miles between charges, more in summer and less in winter. And that, knowing what I do about EVs, there is no economic case for an individual to own one unless they should happen to stumble into an unusually good deal.
There's so much more to say about EVs that I can't do it without running into the comment length limit. Suffice to say that I've researched EVs to the Nth degree, and that I'm convinced beyond any doubt that, absent a stunning technology breakthrough that's is not now apparent, electric cars lack the storage capacity and economy to be mainstream vehicles.
The the EVanglelists lecture, and let everyone else buy and drive what they want.
I make a point of telling curious onlookers that I bought my EV for curiosity's sake. And that it goes 60 miles between charges, more in summer and less in winter. And that, knowing what I do about EVs, there is no economic case for an individual to own one unless they should happen to stumble into an unusually good deal.
There's so much more to say about EVs that I can't do it without running into the comment length limit. Suffice to say that I've researched EVs to the Nth degree, and that I'm convinced beyond any doubt that, absent a stunning technology breakthrough that's is not now apparent, electric cars lack the storage capacity and economy to be mainstream vehicles.
The the EVanglelists lecture, and let everyone else buy and drive what they want.
2
I know of a beautiful lake deep in the Sierra National Forest, and also of fun drive through a wash in Anza Borrego State Park. I'll see you city slickers there in your hybrids and electric vehicles :)
Traded in my PT Cruiser (considered an SUV, before that I had a Jeep) for a Prius 10 years ago and have never looked back. Today I filled the tank for $19.00. The car has driven across the country six times, driven from to New York to Belize and back once, not a problem. My kids will never drive an American car, because much of their memory of childhood, was standing by the road waiting for a tow truck. I think my Chrysler had about 36,001 miles on it when it started breaking down or the second it was out of warranty. I spent an additional 8,000 in repairs, before I traded it at 56,000 miles. Today, I look at my odometer and smile, with 140,000 miles my car purrs. One can never underestimate the short sightedness of Americans, but I owned the first Prius on the block and now nearly half the block has one. Gas is low for a minute and people lose their minds. Buy those mighty dinosaurs and then whine, complain and blame the democrats for high oil prices. Numbskulls!
12
This is exactly why we need a Federal tax on fossil fuel emissions.
Right now, emitting pollution is free.
Right now, emitting pollution is free.
20
Another liberal for a lower standard of living, then. Time was when liberals wanted a higher standard of living.
look into leasing a nissan leaf. All electric. $200 something a month (about what I pay in gas). no repairs. feels nice. good for the environment. In California they give you a $2500 rebate, which you can use to convert your wiring for charging if you don't have the right wiring (or to offset the lease upfront money). there may be a Federal tax credit, not certain. Hybrids are only good because you can go farther, but you have to change the oil, transmission fluid, repair all the parts associated with the engine--none of that with an electric car. (And the electromagnetic field protection is better than for a regular car.)
6
A new Prius is for sale here, heavily discounted to $21,182 (after all fees and dealer add-ins but before taxes). That's the standard Prius, not the smaller '©' or larger 'v'z
That's a great car for the money regardless of gas prices or environmental concerns.
The reliability of Priuses has so far turned out to be very good even by Toyota's high standards.
What's not to like?
That's a great car for the money regardless of gas prices or environmental concerns.
The reliability of Priuses has so far turned out to be very good even by Toyota's high standards.
What's not to like?
11
(1) I can not fit 14 bags of groceries and my 28" at the shoulder 95 lb Service Dog in that dinky thing
(2) I can only have precious Prius repaired at a Toyota dealer - at 4 times the cost of the local mechanic
That is what is not to like
(2) I can only have precious Prius repaired at a Toyota dealer - at 4 times the cost of the local mechanic
That is what is not to like
I really just cannot understand the short-sighted approach that so many people evidently take toward buying a car. That's buying, not leasing. Gas may have dipped to $3.37 (today in my town, Alameda, CA), but I surely do not think or believe that it'll stay that low. We've had $5 per gallon gas in this state for months and months. The trend in gas prices is only UP. I take the long approach in most everything I buy and use. I'm not going to buy a car based on what gas costs today or this month. I'm going to look down the road and go for the best MPG, materials and value, along with the cost of feeding the thing. Big SUVs and conventional gas burning vehicles just don't work for the long-run. Do many people really even THINK when it comes to cars or does the primordial brain take over and wrassle them to the ground?
5
If this article doesn't make the case for a big whopping gasoline tax, I don't know what will.
Depressing to realize that many Americans refuse to get out of their space-hogging gas-guzzling SUV's, despite overwhelming scientific evidence that burning all that gas is destroying our environment.
Written from California, where some scientists have shown that our severe drought is probably being made worse by man-made climate change.
Depressing to realize that many Americans refuse to get out of their space-hogging gas-guzzling SUV's, despite overwhelming scientific evidence that burning all that gas is destroying our environment.
Written from California, where some scientists have shown that our severe drought is probably being made worse by man-made climate change.
11
More typical California hysteria on all counts. Ms. Hershey, do us all a favor and don't leave the nuthouse you call a state.
Unfortunately, in some people's eyes, people still have the ability to choose the vehicle they want to drive. This obviously "drives" some people crazy as it conflicts with their personal worldview (Saviors of Mother Earth).
Meanwhile, many still choose to spend a lot of money on a nice big car or truck and don't sweat the gas money. Or, they get a very fuel efficient gasoline powered car and save money, plus can survive on the freeway.
I love the finger wagging disapproval from the golf cart drives to those truck drivers obviously trying to prove their manhood. Well, I guess it's working.
Meanwhile, many still choose to spend a lot of money on a nice big car or truck and don't sweat the gas money. Or, they get a very fuel efficient gasoline powered car and save money, plus can survive on the freeway.
I love the finger wagging disapproval from the golf cart drives to those truck drivers obviously trying to prove their manhood. Well, I guess it's working.
2
When even the true believers lose their faith, it becomes clearer every day that the battle to reverse climate change is lost. Not surprising—when local environmental groups meeting there are always plenty of SUVs in the parking lot. Fixing carbon emissions will always be something that someone else really needs to be doing—like that guy over there, the one in the pickup truck "rolling coal" all over that Prius.
4
"At that $4-per-gallon high in 2012, a Toyota Camry Hybrid buyer driving 15,000 miles a year could save enough in fuel to break even in five years on the $3,800 price premium versus a conventional Camry."
No,the $3,800 price premium is amortized, approximately 50% is depreciated over that 5 years, not 100%. So owners need to redo their "calculations" assuming this is what is informing their decision.
Funny, I never see anyone feeling compelled to justify paying an extra $1500 for leather seats or an upgraded stereo system by a payback time.
No,the $3,800 price premium is amortized, approximately 50% is depreciated over that 5 years, not 100%. So owners need to redo their "calculations" assuming this is what is informing their decision.
Funny, I never see anyone feeling compelled to justify paying an extra $1500 for leather seats or an upgraded stereo system by a payback time.
5
Exactly. And the other thing, people only look at the time they own the car, not the life of the car. If you only put 36,000 miles on the car and trade it in, no, you will not payout the hybrid. But the car will last 150,000 most likely, so over the life of the car it will have at least 2x the savings versus investment. and exactly my point, people don't get any more mph when they put out $5000 for GPS/high end audio, fancy wheels.
I truly love my hybrid and I am a dyed in the wool car guy. People who are going back to large SUVs who do not truly need them fail to remember the "rotisserie" program that was going on in the LA river where $70K escalades were "stolen" and torched due to high fuel costs. Right now I have to drive a lot for work and it is a great feeling to be getting double the fuel economy while only using regular gas. The extra torque from the electric motor at zero RPM as well as auto-stop start and the ability to go pure EV are great. I always dreamed of a time when I would not be using any gas at all when idling, slogging through traffic, doing downhill, or coasting to a stop. If you are an effective negotiator, much of the hybrid premium can be negated or at least mitigated. I would love to go pure EV but the numbers just do not work out and I find Elon's projections/assumptions on the Tesla website to be pure pie in the sky MBA-type drivel. All I can say is its pretty darn good to get almost 700 miles to a tank of regular gas. If you own a ranch, have a big family, tow things like horse trailers, etc you definitely need a big SUV. Otherwise you are just a poseur...but you probably knew that already.
6
This is the usual short-sighted nonsense. Of course, now that gas prices are down, the same gang of self-entitled loons are going to buy more gas hogs till demand soars and prices go up correspondingly. And so it goes, ad nauseam.
SUV's are a curse and a plague. They get lousy gas mileage and are allowed to pollute up to 5 times more than passenger cars because of federal regulations considering them light trucks (an obsolete concession to small businesses).
Because their headlights are higher up, they are a danger to oncoming traffic: their lights look like brights. And if you are hit by one, the odds that you will die are doubled to tripled.
Nothing has been dumber than the SUV plague. Only 5% of them were ever driven off road anyway. They are a monument to narcissistic self-entitlement and they have done a lot to destroy air quality and increase global warming. Moreover, because of their greater weight, they wear out highways faster.
SUV's should be taxed according to the safety hazards, pollution, waste and infrastructure wear they cause. That would drive down their popularity in a hurry.
SUV's are a curse and a plague. They get lousy gas mileage and are allowed to pollute up to 5 times more than passenger cars because of federal regulations considering them light trucks (an obsolete concession to small businesses).
Because their headlights are higher up, they are a danger to oncoming traffic: their lights look like brights. And if you are hit by one, the odds that you will die are doubled to tripled.
Nothing has been dumber than the SUV plague. Only 5% of them were ever driven off road anyway. They are a monument to narcissistic self-entitlement and they have done a lot to destroy air quality and increase global warming. Moreover, because of their greater weight, they wear out highways faster.
SUV's should be taxed according to the safety hazards, pollution, waste and infrastructure wear they cause. That would drive down their popularity in a hurry.
18
Mr. Tufteland would have acquitted himself better if he just said he wanted a nicer car and as long as he could tolerate its cost it would be OK with him.
Instead we get some real awful rationalizing from him which Mr. Ulrich just lets slide by, unanalyzed.
Simply put, the fuel costs between his 45 mpg hybrid and his 33 mpg Subaru are, despite his claim, quite different.
His new vehicle is 27 percent less fuel efficient than his old one --- His fuel cost -- no matter what the price of gas is -- will be 27 greater per mile in the new vehicle. [A 500-mile trip in the hybrid had a fuel cost of $29; the new car: $40]
At no time and in no place has two things 27 percent different in cost been persuasively said to be not so different.
Over a 20,000-mile per year rate, with fuel assumed to be $2.64 cents every day of that year, this fellow will spend $427 more on fuel than before.
So, sure, his decision is still rational in the sense that $427 isn't that much to him, or $427-plus a year more at the pump is less than the mysterious price premium buyers of penalty-boxy hybrids are forced to pay, or that $427 is a fair offset for a car he loves to drive.
But just don't tell us that, eh, they're really not that different in fuel cost.
That's simply not true.
Instead we get some real awful rationalizing from him which Mr. Ulrich just lets slide by, unanalyzed.
Simply put, the fuel costs between his 45 mpg hybrid and his 33 mpg Subaru are, despite his claim, quite different.
His new vehicle is 27 percent less fuel efficient than his old one --- His fuel cost -- no matter what the price of gas is -- will be 27 greater per mile in the new vehicle. [A 500-mile trip in the hybrid had a fuel cost of $29; the new car: $40]
At no time and in no place has two things 27 percent different in cost been persuasively said to be not so different.
Over a 20,000-mile per year rate, with fuel assumed to be $2.64 cents every day of that year, this fellow will spend $427 more on fuel than before.
So, sure, his decision is still rational in the sense that $427 isn't that much to him, or $427-plus a year more at the pump is less than the mysterious price premium buyers of penalty-boxy hybrids are forced to pay, or that $427 is a fair offset for a car he loves to drive.
But just don't tell us that, eh, they're really not that different in fuel cost.
That's simply not true.
8
I drive a 2012 Prius V which I traded up to from the too-low-to-the-ground standard Prius I owned before. I don't get the promised mileage but did not expect to if driving anywherer other than high speed situations--now most of my driving. What I did not anticipate is that mileage drops 15-20% when I use the AC, heat or charge my cell phone (or use it to listen to podcasts or audiobooks). Essentially every day I need to drive unless I forget my phone.
Despite my "meh" feelings about the reality of hybrid use, Toyota calls, mails and emails me routinely offering incentives to trade in my Prius V claiming that potential buyers abound. I am not convinced that is true being a bit suspect of the marketing as the real money they would make is likely if I financed a new car. I will keep the car for several years at which point we will most likely save more than any hybrid or electric vehicle could.
How? By keeping only ONE vehicle. Does no one think of that as a viable option.
My husband walks to work 4 days a week, unless it is below 20F; now I work primarily from home by design. We could manage to share ONE car. We relocated from Princeton 5 years ago, where we lived for over a decade. And where I bought my first (and last) SUV only because I couldn't see around all the OTHER SUVs. If I need to haul something, I can rent a truck at the local big box home store.
Despite my "meh" feelings about the reality of hybrid use, Toyota calls, mails and emails me routinely offering incentives to trade in my Prius V claiming that potential buyers abound. I am not convinced that is true being a bit suspect of the marketing as the real money they would make is likely if I financed a new car. I will keep the car for several years at which point we will most likely save more than any hybrid or electric vehicle could.
How? By keeping only ONE vehicle. Does no one think of that as a viable option.
My husband walks to work 4 days a week, unless it is below 20F; now I work primarily from home by design. We could manage to share ONE car. We relocated from Princeton 5 years ago, where we lived for over a decade. And where I bought my first (and last) SUV only because I couldn't see around all the OTHER SUVs. If I need to haul something, I can rent a truck at the local big box home store.
20
Lucky you...those of us with two jobs in opposite directions need (not WANT, NEED) two cars.
Another BIG problem with hybrids? The battery is shot within 5 years or so. Several of our friends have had to replace the EXTREMELY expensive battery. Meanwhile, our '92 Buick and '99 Camry keep tooling along...
Another BIG problem with hybrids? The battery is shot within 5 years or so. Several of our friends have had to replace the EXTREMELY expensive battery. Meanwhile, our '92 Buick and '99 Camry keep tooling along...
20% is not a landslide. It is a small minority
1
I was thinking of purchasing a hybrid but I learned that the batteries' life span is about 7 years before they need replacement. These are very expensive and the junkyard will soon be filled with vehicles that are not worth the replacement. Also considering the enviormental impact of an old very large battery in a landfill, a hybrid is not all it's cracked up to be. A fuel efficient vehicle is a better choice.
6
This comment is full of tired canards about the drawbacks of hybrid vehicles. The industry standard for hybrid battery warranties is 8 years or 100,000 miles. Not bad for batteries that supposedly last only 7 years.
Battery replacements are not ‘very expensive’ relative to overall maintenance costs and repairs common with combustion engines. An all-electric vehicle also doesn’t have oil to change, an air filter, a radiator, spark plugs, clutch, timing belt, distributor, muffler, catalytic converter, starter or water pump. Maintain or replace most of those items over the life of a typical car and you have more than paid for a battery pack.
As for environmental impact: Nickel metal hydride batteries contain valuable metals and are highly recyclable. Lithium ion batteries are not economical to recycle but nor do they contain the toxic or heavy metals found in other batteries. Once the battery is drained of electrolytes it has no more environmental impact than any other non-recyclable piece of a junked car.
Battery replacements are not ‘very expensive’ relative to overall maintenance costs and repairs common with combustion engines. An all-electric vehicle also doesn’t have oil to change, an air filter, a radiator, spark plugs, clutch, timing belt, distributor, muffler, catalytic converter, starter or water pump. Maintain or replace most of those items over the life of a typical car and you have more than paid for a battery pack.
As for environmental impact: Nickel metal hydride batteries contain valuable metals and are highly recyclable. Lithium ion batteries are not economical to recycle but nor do they contain the toxic or heavy metals found in other batteries. Once the battery is drained of electrolytes it has no more environmental impact than any other non-recyclable piece of a junked car.
2
Replacement battery options abound including refurbished for $500. Virtually all used batteries are recycled, they have good value even when depleted.
1
Well, you probably read the wrong article or listened to the wrong people. The Toyota hybrid batteries have a design basis life of 180,000 miles at which point they will still hold 95% of their charge. And metal hydride batteries can be and are recycled, just like lead acid. Toyota recycles all their hybrid batteries if done by the dealer.
As for 7 years being the life, well I am not sure if you will keep car that long.
And yes, hybrids are all they are cracked up to be, assuming you drive the car like a normal person, not jack rabbit starts, and 80 mph on the highway. But even if you do, you will beat the equivalent car/non-hybrid by at least 30%.
In the end, your call, enjoy what ever you decide to buy.
As for 7 years being the life, well I am not sure if you will keep car that long.
And yes, hybrids are all they are cracked up to be, assuming you drive the car like a normal person, not jack rabbit starts, and 80 mph on the highway. But even if you do, you will beat the equivalent car/non-hybrid by at least 30%.
In the end, your call, enjoy what ever you decide to buy.
1
Oh hogwash.
(1) You have to look at the per mile cost of a vehicle -- purchase + maintenance + fuel to figure the actual per mile cost over its entire useful life (and not just the 'trade it in in 3 years approach.)
The Prius - unless gas is over $5 - would have to go 1,000,000 (without replacing that $6000 battery pack) to equal the per mile cost of my little compact station wagon that gets 30-34mpg - and has a much cargo space as an SUV.
(2) The hybrids are pretty much terminally 'cute' sedans' or hatchback - no interior space.
No way in life can I fit 14 bags of groceries plus a stop at the lumberyard plus my 28 inch at the shoulder, 95 lb mobility Service Dog in one of those bloody things.
The hybrids are too fricking little inside to be useful hauling the kids - or dogs - or doing a ton of errands at once and carting home 'stuff.'
(1) You have to look at the per mile cost of a vehicle -- purchase + maintenance + fuel to figure the actual per mile cost over its entire useful life (and not just the 'trade it in in 3 years approach.)
The Prius - unless gas is over $5 - would have to go 1,000,000 (without replacing that $6000 battery pack) to equal the per mile cost of my little compact station wagon that gets 30-34mpg - and has a much cargo space as an SUV.
(2) The hybrids are pretty much terminally 'cute' sedans' or hatchback - no interior space.
No way in life can I fit 14 bags of groceries plus a stop at the lumberyard plus my 28 inch at the shoulder, 95 lb mobility Service Dog in one of those bloody things.
The hybrids are too fricking little inside to be useful hauling the kids - or dogs - or doing a ton of errands at once and carting home 'stuff.'
3
Recheck your math. I doubt you are correct. And if you had a hybrid compact stationwagon, it would get about 50+mpg. Second, I don't know where you come up with the cute, no interior space idea. I have a Lexus 300h and it has as much interior room as my non-hybrid Avalon, or very close. You do lose some trunk space, but no big deal for me, just the two of us. And same goes for the Toyota Highlander. Same interior space as non hybrid. But please, say with your car if that is what you want.
Have you considered that your needs for a vehicle may not be the norm? Not everyone needs to cart around 14 bags of groceries or operate a contracting business.
Regarding the need for battery replacement, Consumer Reports has reported that Prius batteries hold up quite well:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-questio...
Regarding the need for battery replacement, Consumer Reports has reported that Prius batteries hold up quite well:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-questio...
1
As a very happy owner of a Chevy Volt, I’m a bit mystified by the trends described. The actual net cost to buy a Volt after the federal tax credit and a 10% rebate off the MSRP in Illinois is not $35,000 but $24,000. This is a great price for an outstanding driving experience. One commenter stated that he won’t consider an electric vehicle until it can outperform his high performance internal combustion engine car. Is he unfamiliar with the Tesla Model S? I also suspect that my Volt would beat his acceleration time from a dead stop to 30 mph. Finally, for people who want to trade in their Prius, the Volt is a greener, cheaper (net cost), higher performing American car built by union autoworkers.
13
While American drivers are short-sighted (in more ways than one) and will most often choose the bigger car, you can't fault the guy featured in the article for buying a Fozzie. Anything getting over 30 MPG is still pretty good, more versatile and, out west, likely to be used for what it's designed. It isn't like he bought a Hummer. His Subaru is likely to last a very long time.
I don't know what the Times is seeing, but I can tell you competition for the limited number of public EV chargers in town is heating up. Somebody besides me is plugging in...
P.S. Bin Laden used our gas money. Does anything else need to be said?
P.S. Bin Laden used our gas money. Does anything else need to be said?
4
We have 2 hybrids. The older on, a Prius, has almost 100,000 miles on it. The new one is merely in his second year. I love that gas mileage. Gas may be cheap right now, but over the years we have saved lots and lots of money on gas. And with snow tires in the winter, that light little Prius goes anywhere and everywhere. I'd never switch back, I love those cars every time I'm at a gas station.
12
Much of the SUV addiction is predicated on the ol' capitalistic competition model. I have a sedan and can't see over or beyond the SUVs, but their drivers can see over everybody because they are "higher." That I guess adds to the price tag. And they're heavier and roomier because shouldn't we as overweight Americans not increase our environment footprint with big, fat, lumbering cars??
It's rather repulsive, really. And when I see hybrids - and most of them really are pretty as oppose to the clunky, box SUVs - I'm far more impressed. I see good taste and a conscience when I see a hybrid. I see something else entirely when I see an SUV.
It's rather repulsive, really. And when I see hybrids - and most of them really are pretty as oppose to the clunky, box SUVs - I'm far more impressed. I see good taste and a conscience when I see a hybrid. I see something else entirely when I see an SUV.
7
They're just cars, not causes.
“We’d all like to save the environment, but maybe not when it costs hundreds of dollars per year,” said Jessica Caldwell, director of industry analysis for Edmunds.com"
This is a lie. If by ' all' she means us Americans then really all she is an apologist for car sales. Americans are willfully unconscious or just don't care. If we wanted to save the environment they wouldn't be driving one to a car in such massive numbers. And the cars they drive! Humongous tonnage. The choking traffic is beyond my comprehension to really grasp. I've lived in four major cities in the past 8 years, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. The traffic is choking. It is very depressing to see this lineup of stop and go traffic all day long fuming CO2 into the atmosphere. America leads the world in car pollution, the number one cause of global climate change. I own a Prius, 2008/I only drive when I have to but have found walking and biking and public transportation is my commute of choice. Zero pollution.
This is a lie. If by ' all' she means us Americans then really all she is an apologist for car sales. Americans are willfully unconscious or just don't care. If we wanted to save the environment they wouldn't be driving one to a car in such massive numbers. And the cars they drive! Humongous tonnage. The choking traffic is beyond my comprehension to really grasp. I've lived in four major cities in the past 8 years, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. The traffic is choking. It is very depressing to see this lineup of stop and go traffic all day long fuming CO2 into the atmosphere. America leads the world in car pollution, the number one cause of global climate change. I own a Prius, 2008/I only drive when I have to but have found walking and biking and public transportation is my commute of choice. Zero pollution.
6
You hit the nail on the head. Edmunds IS an apologist for car sales, and many people are not serious about saving the environment.
This seems to be a case study of basic economic principles. Consumers view gasoline and cheaper gas guzzlers as complementary goods. As the price of gas fell, the demand for SUVs rose. Environmental considerations unfortunately don't seem to factor into the equation. This is illustrative of the fundamental idea that consumers will almost never willingly sacrifice convenience or affordability for the greater good of society—sometimes quite understandably. It's important we all keep this in mind when trying to solve some of the greatest challenges we face in the upcoming years.
2
The problem with hybrids is the price. The extra 10-15K can buy a lot of gas.
2
Then you really have not looked at the price differences, now have you. Tell me the truth. Point in case the difference in price for a Lexus 300h versus the non-hybrid is $2,700. Same delta for the Avalon. You have to be careful that you are comparing apples and oranges. For instance some hybrids load up on a whole lot of other features besides just the hybrid, to which I would say don't buy them. For instance, the Camry Hybrid is $3,800 more, but I suspect that is a pumped up price with either extra features, or it happens to be a hot seller.
We bought a new Prius today for $21k tax. I'm not sure why you're say these cars carry a $10-$15k premium -- by that logic, we could've bought a comparable traditional mew sedan for $6k to $11k. I didn't see any such bargain on the lot.
1
Some people see the price of gas temporarily going down and think it is going to stay that way. Lets factor the price of waging war in oil rich countries and the price of subsidizing big oil companies and you get to the real price of a gallon of gas. Do what you must to stay away from oil consumption.
5
Few people need an SUV for any reason than other than "my ride ids bigger than your ride". They are not towing anything, they are not lugging anything but maybe a couple of kids and a stroller, and live on well paved level roads. They are, in short gigantic monstrosities driven by too many people who can not figure out where their bumpers end an my car --- yes car --- begins. They should be classified as the trucks they are (they are built on truck bodies for the unknowing) and subject to all of those restrictions. And yes, a simple driver's license should not be enough to be behind the wheel.
4
Many fewer SUVs are being built on truck chassis any more - they are built on car chassis, considered "crossovers" and as a result get improved gas mileage. In addition, turbocharging and other techniques have replaced horsepower found in V8 engines in V6 and V4 engines, all allowing for better gas mileage. And as far as monstrosities - no - they are what station wagons were years ago - generally larger, more practical and all-around-useful vehicles, especially when you have more than one occupant in the car. And I also have a car - an SUV.
"More than one occupant", what were you driving a Fiat or a Bug?
They are bigger than station wagons, their headlights are a car rear view and side view mirror heights -- just like a truck. They have no practical purpose that can not be fulfilled by a decent car, and all around useful for what IN MANHATTAN?
They are bigger than station wagons, their headlights are a car rear view and side view mirror heights -- just like a truck. They have no practical purpose that can not be fulfilled by a decent car, and all around useful for what IN MANHATTAN?
3
No matter which vehicle one selects, efficiency is also a function of HOW the vehicle is driven. Accelerating quickly after stopping, racing from one traffic light to the next or accelerating up a hill or to and exit or turn consumes additional fuel. Drive Gently, with whichever car you own, and you'll use less fuel and likely be a lot safer for it.
3
You are absolutely right. For instance, averaging 69 mph, my hybrid got 45.8 mpg. this for a Lexus 300h. If I go to 75, which is usually for a 70mph speed limit, I can instantly see a drop on my mpg indicator to about 40 mpg, and down well below 40 at any higher speeds. Interestingly the mpg is about the same at 60 mph, but that is generally accompanied with some traffic.
I loved my Prius until the hybrid battery failed and they only gave me a 1 year warranty on the replacement which cost me $3000. I still have the car, but will I buy another Prius again? I doubt it. Toyota at first said the replacement costs for the battery would be covered because it was under 10 years and 100,000 miles and I was currently operating it in a state that had the California standards, and then they changed their mind... fine print in the warranty which could be interpreted two different ways. I interpreted it one way, the literal way, and they interpreted it to their advantage. That really disappointed me. I can see why Toyota moved their headquarters to Texas... they really don't care.
3
yes, you have a right to be disappointed. Toyota did not meet the expectation.
And the transmission or other expensive parts never fail on a gas powered car?
The Prius batteries have been found to be quite reliable as has been reported by publications such as Consumer Reports:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-questio...
The Prius batteries have been found to be quite reliable as has been reported by publications such as Consumer Reports:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-questio...
This article is overly simplistic. Here in SF I look across the street and see a $4 sticker on the gas pump. Also see a ton of new Teslas driving around. Both trends suggest not much has changed and hybrids are here to stay.
The thing about owning a Tesla is that you are buying a really fast and well appointed car. A Tesla is wicked fast from 0 to 60, and no gas powered car will match it. Its fundamentally different in both acceleration and deceleration. Yes you need to worry about charging it, but you GAIN something tangible by going green!
The Prius and Volt, et al, need to catch up. They are popular rental cars, but you quickly realize their limitations when you step on the accelerator.
Lastly, diesel cars make up over 50% of the new cars purchased in Europe. They pollute less, have great economy, run fast, and all stations support them. As further evidence of real, permanent, change all around us!
Americans may have slowed down on buying Prius' models, but that has more to do with it being a "been there, done that" car model than a reflection of a changing trend.
Summary, make better hybrids and people will buy them.
The thing about owning a Tesla is that you are buying a really fast and well appointed car. A Tesla is wicked fast from 0 to 60, and no gas powered car will match it. Its fundamentally different in both acceleration and deceleration. Yes you need to worry about charging it, but you GAIN something tangible by going green!
The Prius and Volt, et al, need to catch up. They are popular rental cars, but you quickly realize their limitations when you step on the accelerator.
Lastly, diesel cars make up over 50% of the new cars purchased in Europe. They pollute less, have great economy, run fast, and all stations support them. As further evidence of real, permanent, change all around us!
Americans may have slowed down on buying Prius' models, but that has more to do with it being a "been there, done that" car model than a reflection of a changing trend.
Summary, make better hybrids and people will buy them.
4
Yes, but up until a month or two ago, diesel was $1.00 more than regular. It is about parity now, but surely has not been that way for a long time. I doubt diesel will stay at parity with regular gas.
There are three problems that are holding back consumers from buying cars with better gas mileage.
First is that ROI, return on investment, is not reflected well in the pricing. The higher upfront cost for the Prius, for example, does not allow the financing to take into account the better ROI. If we allowed financing to include insured savings, then the financing would favor efficiency and overall costs during the choice.
Second is that the actual major savings accrue to the entire economy and society, but there is no easy way to allow that benefit to be reflected in each consumer's financing choice. We should have a massive tax credit for picking efficient cars that would better reflect the societal and economic benefits. Getting the average MPG improved by 50% quickly just by better financing and tax credits would also bring down the overall price of fuel and other external costs. Inefficient vehicles have an unwarranted advantage based on poor economics (we all pay more thanks to profits from inefficiency).
Third is to create another cash for clunkers program. On top of financing that better reflected ROI, tax credits that allow macro economic advantages to be reflected in the prices, cash for clunkers would give those who want to improve their lives a shot at a great new car that will lower their overall cost of living.
Financing reform, brings monthly cost down by $50 to $100 a month, fuel savings another ~$50 a month, and a tax credit of $5000 up front. Win win.
First is that ROI, return on investment, is not reflected well in the pricing. The higher upfront cost for the Prius, for example, does not allow the financing to take into account the better ROI. If we allowed financing to include insured savings, then the financing would favor efficiency and overall costs during the choice.
Second is that the actual major savings accrue to the entire economy and society, but there is no easy way to allow that benefit to be reflected in each consumer's financing choice. We should have a massive tax credit for picking efficient cars that would better reflect the societal and economic benefits. Getting the average MPG improved by 50% quickly just by better financing and tax credits would also bring down the overall price of fuel and other external costs. Inefficient vehicles have an unwarranted advantage based on poor economics (we all pay more thanks to profits from inefficiency).
Third is to create another cash for clunkers program. On top of financing that better reflected ROI, tax credits that allow macro economic advantages to be reflected in the prices, cash for clunkers would give those who want to improve their lives a shot at a great new car that will lower their overall cost of living.
Financing reform, brings monthly cost down by $50 to $100 a month, fuel savings another ~$50 a month, and a tax credit of $5000 up front. Win win.
So what's the payout on the Harmon Kardon sound system or the GPS, or the leather seats, or the 19 inch sports radials with fancy rims, or the heated seats, or the push button sun screens, or the cooled/heated seats, or the DVD players built in???? Nothing, zero, notta.
Someone trading in a tiny, nine-year-old hybrid on a very efficient, highly rated car like the Forester does not really illustrate the point the headline tries to make.
2
My diesel SUV, unavailable from what I read in the US, gets 44 mpg (18.7kpl). There are lots of big cars here in France, and lots of tiny ones too. My wife especially likes our big SUV: it's safer, hauls around more stuff, and it's roomy. With 4wd it also drives nicely on village roads in the winter.
2
I had to buy a new car in January after my previous car (a much loved 2007 Honda Fit) was totaled on the interstate. I always, always, ALWAYS thought my next car would be a Prius--my husband owns a 2006 Civic Hybrid. As I drove the Prius V off the lot, I was shocked at it's remarkably bad pickup. I then talked to other Prius owners who talked about not being able to pull out into traffic, pass, or do other things I need to do daily driving in the 95 corridor. I didn't even think the car would be safe pulling off my small street onto a busier one on a daily basis.
So I bought a CR-V. It holds 5 comfortably, gives us cargo capacity we don't have in the Civic Hybrid, and gets 30+ MPG about the same as my Fit. I'm not offroading in the CR-V, but it certainly fits my life and safety requirements moreso than the Prius did. I just didn't feel safe driving a sooped up golf cart.
So I bought a CR-V. It holds 5 comfortably, gives us cargo capacity we don't have in the Civic Hybrid, and gets 30+ MPG about the same as my Fit. I'm not offroading in the CR-V, but it certainly fits my life and safety requirements moreso than the Prius did. I just didn't feel safe driving a sooped up golf cart.
1
I bought a Honda Insight because it drives like my old civic but it has good cargo capacity. I love it. I'm also averaging 53.4 MPG for all combined driving, and up to 62 MPG on the freeway. Now I have heard they are out of production again. Too much of a god thing? It's a shame. Maybe Honda will come out with a CR-V Hybrid.
My family and I drive two fully equipped, very comfortable Ford hybrids in and around New York City. The cars lack for nothing. They have virtually every option you can imagine. For about an extra $700, you can get ones that parallel-park themselves at the curb. I get about 40 mpg's and the cars' range is about 600 miles. They are not the fastest cars around but handle and brake very well. They do the job more than adequately.
What's the argument in favor of getting a poor handling, hard to get into (especially into the back seat with those narrow doors), poor braking, not particularly fast, gas-wasting SUV when I am not a contractor and never drive off-road? That we like OPEC? That it makes us feel macho?
I see all of these SUV's on the road and I've got to believe that the City is clogged with either contractors or morons.
What's the argument in favor of getting a poor handling, hard to get into (especially into the back seat with those narrow doors), poor braking, not particularly fast, gas-wasting SUV when I am not a contractor and never drive off-road? That we like OPEC? That it makes us feel macho?
I see all of these SUV's on the road and I've got to believe that the City is clogged with either contractors or morons.
6
This dip in gas prices is temporary and certainly not for your benefit. Cracking the floor upsets Russia, among others. Normal folks just got lucky and bit of the recession was masked.
A hybrid is a good idea for an urban or suburban area with limited distances. Beyond that, a diesel car is more efficient, and greener to produce-less batteries and rare earths.
It will take a while for the glut to go, and for the normal players to regain equilibrium and figure out a way to set the price again. Until then, enjoy the SUV, but it will go back to $5 per gallon, eventually.
A hybrid is a good idea for an urban or suburban area with limited distances. Beyond that, a diesel car is more efficient, and greener to produce-less batteries and rare earths.
It will take a while for the glut to go, and for the normal players to regain equilibrium and figure out a way to set the price again. Until then, enjoy the SUV, but it will go back to $5 per gallon, eventually.
19
I think you're confusing hybrids (gas-electric) and EVs regarding distance driven being a factor, unless you mean that the hybrid has a larger mpg advantage over an ICE car in an urban setting; in fact, the more you drive a hybrid (e.g., a taxi), the greener it is regarding the rare earth metals, although the lithium in the newer batteries can almost all be recycled into a new battery than with the older NiMH batteries. A hybrid diesel would be even more fuel efficient.
Why do we have to choose between extremes - hybrid vs SUVs? Why not the gas-driven Honda civic, the toyota corolla?
1
Because then people would have nothing to complain about.
Truck and SUV size matters, so don't lump them all together.
My previous SUVs (Nissan Pathfinders) got too big for me to handle. I got a smaller SUV (Subaru Forester XT) in 2014 when it got rave reviews for design, safety, handling, visibility and 0-60 in 6.3 seconds for freeway merging. It also has a Sport* mode that guides me around 40 tight turns to and from my house.
I also have a 2010 Nissan Frontier pickup truck for hauling things around, like 2x4x8 lumber or 6 sacks of cement from Home Deport. My pickup is now the smallest around when you look at the new ones. Even the Toyota Tacoma got bigger (I had a smaller 2002 Tacoma). Look at the Tundra, Ram Silverado or Ford F series; they are huge and belong on construction sites, not mall parking lots or city streets.
So, NYT, check it out and don't confuse size for labels like SUV. I know you need to catch the attention of readers on mobile phones....
My previous SUVs (Nissan Pathfinders) got too big for me to handle. I got a smaller SUV (Subaru Forester XT) in 2014 when it got rave reviews for design, safety, handling, visibility and 0-60 in 6.3 seconds for freeway merging. It also has a Sport* mode that guides me around 40 tight turns to and from my house.
I also have a 2010 Nissan Frontier pickup truck for hauling things around, like 2x4x8 lumber or 6 sacks of cement from Home Deport. My pickup is now the smallest around when you look at the new ones. Even the Toyota Tacoma got bigger (I had a smaller 2002 Tacoma). Look at the Tundra, Ram Silverado or Ford F series; they are huge and belong on construction sites, not mall parking lots or city streets.
So, NYT, check it out and don't confuse size for labels like SUV. I know you need to catch the attention of readers on mobile phones....
3
As usual, consumers have their heads buried in the sand. There's a Nepali saying that goes: "We start digging the well when we see the fire." By the time you see the fire, of course, it is much too late to start digging the well.
7
So one study shows that one in five (20%) of owners switched to an SUV as gas prices lowered. How does that warrant the other inferences and claims in this article and it's rather misleading headline? That still means that 80% stuck with the hybrids. 80% vs. 20%.
4
The point is that not only are there fewer first-time buyers of hybrids, but that a significant percentage of previous owners are abandoning the technology. As you'll note from the comments here, their reasons are not only related to the cost of gasoline but to the functionality of the hybrids. When hybrids, or all-electrics, become truly affordable and truly functional (longer-lasting, more ecologically safe batteries, for instance), more consumers might find them attractive.
Count me as one who's bucking the trend. I bought an electric vehicle with a 100-mile range a month ago, and we'll probably install solar panels on the house in the next year. I don't know the price of fuel in town right now, but I do know that when I drive around town, I'm not belching fumes into the air when I constantly stop and go. This feels very, very good.
I honestly can't understand American shortsightedness and selfishness. Why do so many people in this country completely fail to see beyond their own noses?
I honestly can't understand American shortsightedness and selfishness. Why do so many people in this country completely fail to see beyond their own noses?
109
Unfortunately, you need to look at the full life cycle of these alternative products. Your solar panels (photovoltaic or PV, as they're known) are manufactured in China and they're byproduct waste has created some of most toxic lakes in the world. The last U.S. PV manufacturer, Solyndra, went bankrupt shortly after receiving $500M guaranteed loan from Obama Administration some 5 years ago. Similar situation for lithium batteries for your car. So don't feel too good about saving the planet as we generally ignore issues not in our own backyard.
20% ain't bad when one considers what a bunch of gas hogs Americans have always been. IN fact, as there are few real electric cars that are comparable to the ease and simplicity gasoline powered cars provide by being able to be refueled at virtually any placde on the face of the planet , when electric car manufacturers cannot yet agree to the nature of the motors, batteries or fuel cells they intend to use, it is almost a wonder that 90% of buyers haven't decided to wait until a simple, universally accepted design solution is adopted by auto builders everywhere.
3
Uh oh, here we go again. I'm old enough to remember the energy crises of the 1970's, and the collapse of Detroit not once, but twice now. Oil is a finite resource and will absolutely rise in price again. That last thing we need is a reemergence of the behemoth SUV, though there are still too many of those gas guzzlers around.
12
Trucks and SUVs are the bane of parking lots, they hog parking spaces, obstruct vision when backing out of parking spaces and generally contribute to traffic density. Give me an agile Prius anytime. It's the small gas sippers or electrics that are gonna outlive those dinosaurs.
12
Mind-boggling collective insanity by our nation! So much for energy independence for security purposes, not to mention not pumping more pollution into the air?
NPR had a feature today about how luxury car manufacturers have increasingly gotten into SUV market in recent years too!
And Detroit, which built it pre-crash "business model" on making gas-guzzlers, SUVs, and trucks has clearly learned so much from its near-death experience too! Still pumping out those huge, ugly boats...
NPR had a feature today about how luxury car manufacturers have increasingly gotten into SUV market in recent years too!
And Detroit, which built it pre-crash "business model" on making gas-guzzlers, SUVs, and trucks has clearly learned so much from its near-death experience too! Still pumping out those huge, ugly boats...
3
I pass by numerous hybrid vehicles on a daily basis; usually an assortment of Prius, Leafs, etc. I really only see them in the rear-view mirror, though. For those of us who enjoy driving, I'm sure most would agree that hybrids are merely impediments on the road. When this technology can be integrated seamlessly into performance cars offered in the U.S., like the many diesel offerings throughout Europe, then I'll consider one. Until then, American hybrids will not be on my shopping list.
5
So you must be one of those jerks who zip past my Prius at 80 mph in a 55 zone. I could also go 80 or more, in my Prius, but I refrain from doing so. I do not need to prove my macho.
6
I would hope that you at least stay to the right, but it sounds like you stay in the left lane, going as slow as legally possible, so that we notice your hybrid, save-the-world, car and give the rest of us the opportunity to reflect on what jerks we are for not joining you on a eco love-in.
1
That's probably wise.
The national bird should be changed from the bald eagle to an ostrich with its head in the sand.
19
Stop driving! I know - a lot of people will immediately say they can't (and can't even part with their SUVs). But in San Francisco we prefer BMW - bike, Muni (public transit), and walk. If our government wants to do anything to save the Earth and future generations, it should raise gas taxes and use the money for greener alternatives, such as public transit.
11
Meanwhile, in the other 99% of the country where people live...
It's easier to prefer BMW in a compact city that's difficult to park in vs a sprawling metropolis or rural area that makes biking to work an all day affair.
As nice as it would be to live within walking or biking distance (not to mention having conducive weather), that's just not reality for most locations. Enjoy SF, but realize it's far from normal.
It's easier to prefer BMW in a compact city that's difficult to park in vs a sprawling metropolis or rural area that makes biking to work an all day affair.
As nice as it would be to live within walking or biking distance (not to mention having conducive weather), that's just not reality for most locations. Enjoy SF, but realize it's far from normal.
Thanks to all the hybrid buyers who left more gas at the pump for the rest of us to use - and at lower prices!
2
Of COURSE sales are lagging. Consider:
1) Price of oil is 50% of 2011 prices in 2015
2) No limits on range (or speed) of gas-powered cars
3) Much higher prices for hybrid and/or electric cars
4) 1,500-lb batteries are a disaster for the environment
5) HOV lanes are no longer bribes for hybrid drivers
6) Government no longer paying billions for company formation as it sis with Tesla, Fisker, etc.
Sorry, my progressive/socialist/Democrat bretheren. As with solar panels, this pipe dream is also a BUST.
1) Price of oil is 50% of 2011 prices in 2015
2) No limits on range (or speed) of gas-powered cars
3) Much higher prices for hybrid and/or electric cars
4) 1,500-lb batteries are a disaster for the environment
5) HOV lanes are no longer bribes for hybrid drivers
6) Government no longer paying billions for company formation as it sis with Tesla, Fisker, etc.
Sorry, my progressive/socialist/Democrat bretheren. As with solar panels, this pipe dream is also a BUST.
5
Enjoy the rest of your life, you wasteful conservative.
I don't buy it. Sure, if you live in the country and have only one car, you might switchover to a more rugged machine. But for the vast majority who live in metropolitan areas or have two cars, they will be sticking with the hybrids. The ease of use and a push-button quiet start (every time) is a quantum leap forward and I will only buy hybrids/electric in the future.
5
You can have the best of both worlds. The Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-in Hybrid SUV is selling gangbusters in Europe. Unfortunately, it won't be coming to the US until Q2 of 2016. It has a 20 mile electric range, which is less than the Volt's 40 mile electric range, but can still give you an effective gas mileage in the hundreds of mpg.
On the other hand, gas prices will remain low forever, since we always seem to be finding more oil, there will never be political crises in the Middle East, and China will happily cooperate with our continued gluttonous consumption of 25% of the world's oil, so there's not really a problem anyway. Happy motoring!
On the other hand, gas prices will remain low forever, since we always seem to be finding more oil, there will never be political crises in the Middle East, and China will happily cooperate with our continued gluttonous consumption of 25% of the world's oil, so there's not really a problem anyway. Happy motoring!
1
The 2016 Volt will have a 50-mile electric range.
My mother has a new Volvo; when it comes to a stop but is still running, it stops drawing upon the gas. It's a nice efficiency and she definitely sees a decrease in how much gas she's buying.
2
It's for good reason that we should worry about artificial intelligence. As this report illustrates we're awash in natural stupidity.
35
Sounds like a good time to hike the gas tax and fix our negelected roads and bridges.
38
Brilliant Jeff,
And the next question should be "Are you going to be stupid for your entire life??"
(Unfortunately for us and future generations it looks so...)
And the next question should be "Are you going to be stupid for your entire life??"
(Unfortunately for us and future generations it looks so...)
4
Excuse me, there is no short-term thinking. We are awash in the stuff. No way prices are going to recover to 2012 levels. Once Detroit smells a comeback they will push it where it belongs around $2. Who wants rethinking ($2.66)?. What they want is a no-brainer, a mad scramble. At 2 bucks it will happen.
If and when prices rise it will more likely be a crawl and never ever get close to 2012. And in the unlikely event they do, the frackers will simply resume fracking.
The point being, the American consumer knows a good deal when she sees one. At least this time around.
If and when prices rise it will more likely be a crawl and never ever get close to 2012. And in the unlikely event they do, the frackers will simply resume fracking.
The point being, the American consumer knows a good deal when she sees one. At least this time around.
1
The several previous ping-Pongs in oil prices since 1973 and car buyers' reactions to same clearly will prove you wrong.
2
The Saudis are pumping oil like mad in order to kill off the US unconventional oil industry, which is not profitable at current oil prices, and depends on short term financing for it's existence.
Americans shifting to SUVs is just the icing on the cake.
Once the Saudis accomplish their goal, they will sell oil for as much as the market can bear once again, and reap the benefits of enhanced geopolitical power.
Why not? America is fat, rich, and stupid.
Americans shifting to SUVs is just the icing on the cake.
Once the Saudis accomplish their goal, they will sell oil for as much as the market can bear once again, and reap the benefits of enhanced geopolitical power.
Why not? America is fat, rich, and stupid.
2
If people will not buy the electric and Hybrids for economic reasons then the Government ought to pass a law making them buy the hybrids and and electric. At the minimum the government ought to place a progressive tax on non hybrids of a minimum of $10,000 and use the proceeds to help the environment. It would be something like the cigarette tax to help unhealthy. Another SIN tax is the answer.
6
Freedom is so 19th century. As it is Electric drivers get away from paying the gasoline tax so they're mooching off the rest of us anyway. Maybe that's the real SIN.
Also, now that Global Warming has been proven a fraud by the real scientists, it is a return to sanity. People like SUVs.
4
I hope you live on a coast because I will enjoy watching you home get flooded by the global warming fraud.
2
Global warming isn't exactly what the words meant. We have had more like Global Extreme Climate change as evidenced more storms, blizzards, floods, and serious drought on this planet. Extreme temperature change is a green house effect. If this continues, Earth will become Mars some day. Rocks and most other materials will disintegrate under long term extreme temperature change.
3
and global warming, apparently.
2
People are selfish, that's the bottom line. When gas prices go up you can bet these same people will be cursing and pointing fingers (probably at Obama). They are analagous to the people in California who insist on washing their cars excessively. In fact, they are probably one and the same.
8
I like the luxury of the electric motor's smooth, quiet pull from a stop and at low speeds up hills. Also, the Ford C-Max is the size that crossovers (small SUVs) were originally, before the bloating process began. Its continuously variable automatic transmission adds to the smoothness.
2
What? Why aren't all you progressives out buying electric/fuel cell/hybrid cars? Put your money where your beliefs are.
1
Because only Progressives want good fuel economy, less air pollution and sending less money to oil-producing countries that support terrorists.
13
I can't speak for other people (obviously, you're comfortable doing that), but I've put my money where my mouth is. And if you believe the price of oil will stay at current levels, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
By the way - how's that carbon-induced Brown Cloud, the massive forest fires, pine beetle deforestation, and drought workin' for ya, Denver? I've put my money where my mouth is in housing, too. I lived in Colorado for 10 years, but decided to move back to the northeast - where the water might still be when I'm old.
By the way - how's that carbon-induced Brown Cloud, the massive forest fires, pine beetle deforestation, and drought workin' for ya, Denver? I've put my money where my mouth is in housing, too. I lived in Colorado for 10 years, but decided to move back to the northeast - where the water might still be when I'm old.
3
I just bought a Chevrolet Volt and I love it.
1
Obviously, these folks trading in their hybrid were probably not even born during the gas crises in 1973. There was just no gas to be had…period. Stations were letting you have 5 gallons, and that was it, and sometimes you had to sit in line for an hour to get it. We seem to have very short memories.
8
Everything is big in Texas, including the dumbness of the car buying public. The only reason that you should buy a large SUV is because you have a big family or haul a larger number of passengers when you drive. Then there are Southern gentlemen who need to drive very large pick up trucks in order to haul their tiny packages around.
18
I had to go back and read the article again. There is no mention of Texas, or anyone from Texas. Just Nevada. Pickup truck and SUV ownership widespread. Why pick on Texas?
How much mass transportation infrastructure (including safe rail lines) would a 50 cent/gal tax on gasoline support? Why is this country so perpetually paralyzed on investing in the future and applying tax policy in a way that it can help us? This is exactly the time to raise tax in a way to ensure consumers continue to spend money in a way that is better for the environment, our collective health, and our national security. The lack of political will in this country and the incessant short-term focus of so many politicians and citizens is going to be our ruin.
25
I remember back in the 90's how glad I was I had bought my (then very efficient) 35 MPG Saturn, even though gas wasn't particularly high at the time of purchase. When, inevitably, prices went up, SUV drivers were in shock. I tried not to be too smug when remarking that I was relatively immune to the increased cost. I'm delighted to be driving a Prius now, and whenever I buy again, the best fuel efficiency then available will be a prime consideration.
The short term thinking on display here is stunning -- in two senses: those who buy SUV's now will pay for it in gas prices at some point in the not distant future; and we will ALL pay for it with the continued rise of global warming. Are American as a people incapable of thinking and acting beyond our most immediate gratification?
The short term thinking on display here is stunning -- in two senses: those who buy SUV's now will pay for it in gas prices at some point in the not distant future; and we will ALL pay for it with the continued rise of global warming. Are American as a people incapable of thinking and acting beyond our most immediate gratification?
53
It seems patently obvious that the answer is a resounding "no".
5
It does seem that people have acted in a pretty short term oriented and stupid manner regarding past fuel crises. Why would they not continue to do so?
A sad statement about people's lack of understanding about what's happening to our world.
19
Or just people understanding what the Prius is doing to their back. Our state agencies have purchased a number of the vehicles and after driving them for work I would never purchase one, fuel economy or not. They are ergonomicly terrible. Never have had that problem with my Subaru. I'd rather pay more in fuel and less in chiropractic.
Everyone's back is different. You're the first person I've ever heard complain about Prius seats.
2
The author makes a huge mistake by lumping together the sales of plug-in vehicles and hybrid vehicles. Plug-in vehicle sales are up, not down -- hybrid sales are down in part because there is now an even cleaner alternative, not just because gasoline vehicles have partially closed the efficiency gap (thanks to strong fuel economy standards).
11
I was hoping to buy a plug-in electric car last year, and every local dealer that offered them had at least a two-year waiting list. (Granted, I don't live in a major metro area, but they certainly seem to be very popular).
I do not regret for a second trading in my XTerra SUV for a Prius V .
Gas may be cheap now, but it will go back up.
Gas may be cheap now, but it will go back up.
17
I just traded in my old car for a diesel VW and couldn't be happier. My gas mileage has nearly doubled. When I bought my car the salespeople said they have greatly reduced the number of diesel and hybrids that they have in inventory. Consumers' interest in mpg plummets with the price of gasoline. How shortsighted! And no one thinks of the environment at all. I suppose my millennial peers have forgotten everything that Captain Planet taught them. The power is yours! Cheesy, but true...
5
The VW clean diesel is a great car - emits a fraction of the pollutants of a gasoline engine. Mine gets 500+ miles to a tank.
1
Diesels have always been a hard sell in the U.S. People think back to the clunky old Mercedes and diesel fumes. Today's VW and Audi diesels are actually less polluting than gasoline engines, not to mention having great mileage. They're all over Europe where fuel is really expensive. I drive a 2013 Audi A3 TDI and while it's annoying diesel fuel usually costs more (at least in MI), I don't mind fewer visits to the gas station and 40-44 MPG it gets. Just wait, folks. Gas prices will go up again.
2
The price of fuel at the pump does not include the long-term costs of burning fossil fuels. It does not include the costs of respiratory and cardiovascular illness related to air pollution, which mostly affect the old, the young, and those with pre-existing diseases. And of course the price at the pump does not include the costs of increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which will be borne by everyone, especially future generations.
9
This is really stupid. You just know that gas will be up to 4 bucks a gallon again. Right now Saudi Arabia is doing all it can to put American fracking out of business so they jack up their prices.
OPEC, not such a bunch of nice guys, is now on the ropes. We need to double down and land a knockout blow by fracking and pumping like crazy. The drilling which Obama approved a few days ago is a step in the right direction. Impose a $5,000.00 tax on all needless, gas-wasting SUV's except for people who would be exempt from such a tax because they really need them. Somehow when I'm driving around Manhattan or the Miracle Mile in Manhasset I just don't see too many SUV's filled with tools and paint cans and with ladders sticking out the back.
And you know, at the entrance to parkways there are signs that only "passenger cars" may enter the parkway? I'd start enforcing that as to SUV's which are, in essence trucks, I don't care what kind of passenger car plate you put on it. A rose by any other name is still,,,,,,, you know,,,,,, a rose.
Drive hybrids. Frack and pump like crazy! It's in our best interest. Keep American money in American pockets.
OPEC, not such a bunch of nice guys, is now on the ropes. We need to double down and land a knockout blow by fracking and pumping like crazy. The drilling which Obama approved a few days ago is a step in the right direction. Impose a $5,000.00 tax on all needless, gas-wasting SUV's except for people who would be exempt from such a tax because they really need them. Somehow when I'm driving around Manhattan or the Miracle Mile in Manhasset I just don't see too many SUV's filled with tools and paint cans and with ladders sticking out the back.
And you know, at the entrance to parkways there are signs that only "passenger cars" may enter the parkway? I'd start enforcing that as to SUV's which are, in essence trucks, I don't care what kind of passenger car plate you put on it. A rose by any other name is still,,,,,,, you know,,,,,, a rose.
Drive hybrids. Frack and pump like crazy! It's in our best interest. Keep American money in American pockets.
5
Manufactures need to stop adding a $5000. premium to the hybrids compared to gasoline models. It negates the savings or at least stretches the payback out so far it isn't worth it.
8
I bought a well-equipped , brand-new Prius today for $21k before taxes. If that included a $5k hybrid premium as you say, they must have been all out of $16k Mom-hybrids.
Our other Prius is 9 years old - still a great car.
Our other Prius is 9 years old - still a great car.
This is really a failure of government. Fuel standards are being raised too slowly. We cannot rely on the economic choices of a spoiled populace.
10
Raise the gas tax, America....and cure your own stupidity in the process.
Your grandchildren and the planet Earth will thank you later.
Your grandchildren and the planet Earth will thank you later.
119
Here, here!
3
Yes, let's punish blue collar workers who use pickups, vans, etc professionally and workers who can only afford to live far from city centers, requiring long commutes. Nothing like a massively regressive tax to change their profligate ways.
In market for a used hybrid, please put more on the market. I will take all the discount that I can get.
TDI, anyone? Consistently get 40mpg in my Jetta Sportwagen with 70% driving on surface and 30% on highway.
TDI, anyone? Consistently get 40mpg in my Jetta Sportwagen with 70% driving on surface and 30% on highway.
3
After turning in my Subaru Forrester for an electric Fiat, I'm never going back. It really feels great passing by a gas station and not needing to fill it up. Bonus points for not needing to touch the grime ridden gas pump either. For our twice a year camping trips, we rent a larger vehicle for the trip (Fiat pitches in for rentals). We should all do our part to reduce global warming and quit filling fat Middle Eastern pockets.
14
Well, depending on where one lives in the country and the state of the power grid, you DO REALIZE that having a plug-in vehicle is pretty much the same as having a coal-powered car, right?
I'm sorry, but people are idiots. Sometime around last August gas was at $3.59/gal in my area; it got as low as $1.99 in the winter - and now is back up to $2.50ish. Prices are rising, people. Gas will not stay at this level. Take off those blinders and don't buy an SUV today!
38
You're absolutely right; what goes down must go up, which is what's been happening recently with oil prices. But that's the people's problem, who think that oil prices will stay low for long. Next thing you know, we'll be paying more than $3.50 for gas.
There are a certain number of very foolish people that actually believe the top line gas mileage numbers the lobbyist heavy auto industry is permitted to promote.
Rest assured, you will only get these figures in extensive, high speed interstate driving. Urban mileage can be abysmal.
Drivers need to seriously consider their actually day to day usage, and not some dreamed of lifestyle.
Rest assured, you will only get these figures in extensive, high speed interstate driving. Urban mileage can be abysmal.
Drivers need to seriously consider their actually day to day usage, and not some dreamed of lifestyle.
5
Has anyone considered that perhaps the reasons buyers are passing on hybrids is because Engineers for other Sedans and SUVs have done a much better job at improving gas mileage while increasing power? This while most affordable hybrids remain unattractive and without improved power and gas efficiency.
7
Further evidence of just how short-sighted people are.
Gas is a finite resource, and there is also a finite amount of carbon we can dump into the atmosphere without ruining our habitat. Just as they came down, gas prices will go up, and probably sooner rather than later.
My family has a hybrid and a diesel car, and even though our commutes are short, at no point have we regretted our decision.
Gas is a finite resource, and there is also a finite amount of carbon we can dump into the atmosphere without ruining our habitat. Just as they came down, gas prices will go up, and probably sooner rather than later.
My family has a hybrid and a diesel car, and even though our commutes are short, at no point have we regretted our decision.
10
I guess the fact that burning fossil fuels is causing climate change which will, at the very least cause hardship to the creatures that live on this earth - if not eliminate them all, is not a concern.
10
I hope they get stuck with these gas guzzlers when the price of gas goes sky high. Try selling them when that happens. It's a selfish lifestyle and I hope they pay through the nose for it.
11
While not a fan of hybrids, with a 60-mile commute every day, I can certainly understand their appeal. I opted for a VW Golf diesel, a car and engine that are extremely popular in Europe, where fuel is very expensive. And while the cost of diesel fuel varies, just as with gasoline, I'm averaging 50+ mph, so I have no complaints.
10
Um, gas prices won't stay low.
12
Don't we ever learn? How many energy crises will it take for us to stop our knee-jerk reactions to energy usage and management in this country? While I'm pleased that current fuel prices are low, I'm disappointed that at the first sign of lower prices we as a country are willing to ignore so many methods of saving energy -- until the next time "the sky is falling." Enjoy low prices while they last, but please, plan for the future. "Alternative" energy sources won't always be alternative; they will be necessities.
21
It is not just about prices. It is about creating less greenhouse gases. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
33
Low gas prices? I live in NYC and don't know the meaning of that term. When will our state do the right thing and mirror New Jersey's gas prices? And before you say "re-invest in our state's infrastructure" I challenge anyone to tell me the Major Deegan Expressway is in better condition than any major roadway in New Jersey. In fact, it's quite a bit worse. NY State, get with the program and lower that gas tax.
I commute 50 miles round trip daily. Believe me, the 54 mpg I get with my Prius is well worth the price, whatever the cost of gasoline.
9
Fuel prices will go up and we will read in a few months about all the people selling low miles per gallon vehicles for the latest fuel economic craze. I was looking for a replacement vehicle for a 2001 Ford Escape and what shocked me was how little the mpg improved -- fourteen years later and I was looking at an mpg rating on the 2015 Escape that was within 2 -3 mpg of the 2001 model! The shame is seeing research in alternatives fall by the wayside whenever fuel prices fall.
On a related note, monies from fuel taxes goes into transportation funds. Is there any thought of balancing the equation with hybrids and zero emission vehicles to fueled vehicles? Hybrids and zero emission vehicles use the same roads but pay little in tax. Should federal and state taxes on fuels get removed and replaced by fees assessed at registration / inspection periods that are based on miles traveled?
On a related note, monies from fuel taxes goes into transportation funds. Is there any thought of balancing the equation with hybrids and zero emission vehicles to fueled vehicles? Hybrids and zero emission vehicles use the same roads but pay little in tax. Should federal and state taxes on fuels get removed and replaced by fees assessed at registration / inspection periods that are based on miles traveled?
5
That would effectively make hybrids more expensive.
I took a hybrid Toyota Corolla (OK, Toyota Auris) for a spin on vacation in Italy. On highway, it averaged somewhere between 5-6 L per 100 km.
On a regular Chevy Cruze, I average about 7-8 L in similar driving per 100 km.
Even with higher Canadian prices of roughly $1 a litre, it will take me several hundred thousand kilometers to recoup the difference, at 2000$ per 100k kilometres.
Hybrids don't make a lot of sense in smaller, cheaper, more efficient cars. They do make sense in larger, more powerful cars, though, because you normally don't need all that power all the time. So I'm looking at hybrid Lincoln instead.
On a regular Chevy Cruze, I average about 7-8 L in similar driving per 100 km.
Even with higher Canadian prices of roughly $1 a litre, it will take me several hundred thousand kilometers to recoup the difference, at 2000$ per 100k kilometres.
Hybrids don't make a lot of sense in smaller, cheaper, more efficient cars. They do make sense in larger, more powerful cars, though, because you normally don't need all that power all the time. So I'm looking at hybrid Lincoln instead.
2
There is no technological barrier to putting a hydrid or hydrid/plugin engine on all SUVs. Although I prefer that people make decisions with more than "today" and themselves alone in mind, we can meet halfway.
“We’d all like to save the environment, but maybe not when it costs hundreds of dollars per year,” said Jessica Caldwell, director of industry analysis for Edmunds.com.
Excuse me? To save around a buck a day we should give up on the environment?
Well then, its high time for a large increase in the gas tax. I say a dollar a gallon ought to take care of several needs. It would fund substantial investments in infrastructure while making it cost hundreds of dollars per year for people to NOT save the environment.
Excuse me? To save around a buck a day we should give up on the environment?
Well then, its high time for a large increase in the gas tax. I say a dollar a gallon ought to take care of several needs. It would fund substantial investments in infrastructure while making it cost hundreds of dollars per year for people to NOT save the environment.
11
Where is your fact checker? Regular gas has never averaged $4.67 in the US. Good article, but why ruin it with bad facts?
1
Forget cars and SUVs. Gas prices should be $8.00 a gallon so more people buy and use bicycles. Would there be hardship? Yes, it would be very hard for Americans to exert themselves, but they would get used to it and maybe even enjoy it.
3
The most logical and boldly strategic move the federal government could make would be to double the national gas tax (from 18 cents to 36 cents per gallon) now while prices are low. No one would hardly notice the difference, as it would effectively raise gasoline prices by less than 7%, yet it would provide increased revenue for badly needed road infrastructure, incentivize purchasing fuel efficient cars, reduce air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions, and provide substantial health benefits.
It won't happen, however, because 1. Congress works at the behest of oil and gas industry and 2. The short-sighted perspective of the American people who can't seem to understand what is in their best interest.
It won't happen, however, because 1. Congress works at the behest of oil and gas industry and 2. The short-sighted perspective of the American people who can't seem to understand what is in their best interest.
10
What do you recommend for bicycle tires so I can bike my 30-mile commute each day through 3 foot snow drifts?
1
Articles like these are truly frustrating....people buy gas guzzlers and elect to live far from their places of work (and there are many who do this because the cost of commute is low). Once prices rise (and they will), they complain about the high price of gasoline and resist any and all changes in the gas tax (a number that hasnt changed in two decades !). Roads crumble, reactionary politics ensue. How many times have we seen this play out in the last 10 years ? Meanwhile, countries like Japan and Germany have a good automotive culture while making the necessary investments in infrastructure and public transportation.
9
My only wish would be that all the world's oil runs out. No more cars polluting the air, yea!
4
When I bought a new car a couple of years ago I went with a Ford Fusion Hybrid for the extra power of the electric motor. I didn't want to pay more for a V6 - both in terms of cost and gas. I needed to be able to haul kayaks and bikes which my Elantra struggled to do. The car is no different from a regular for Ford Fusion in terms of comfort and the space consume by the batteries is relatively small.
In terms of switching from a hybrid to a standard engine car, I think it depends somewhat upon the car. I wasn't crazy about the Prius or Civic and probably would have opted for a non-hybrid car for many of the reasons in this article if not for the Fusion. With hybrids, all to often people focus on the cost, gas mileage, and the environment. This is too bad. The electric motor does have some significant advantages (acceleration/reduced maintenance/noise) which aren't often mentioned that often. Tell people that they can buy a V4 with the power of a V6 but save money on gas and have a car that is essentially no different from the regular model.
In terms of switching from a hybrid to a standard engine car, I think it depends somewhat upon the car. I wasn't crazy about the Prius or Civic and probably would have opted for a non-hybrid car for many of the reasons in this article if not for the Fusion. With hybrids, all to often people focus on the cost, gas mileage, and the environment. This is too bad. The electric motor does have some significant advantages (acceleration/reduced maintenance/noise) which aren't often mentioned that often. Tell people that they can buy a V4 with the power of a V6 but save money on gas and have a car that is essentially no different from the regular model.
1
Really?? I live in New England which has rather high gas prices and the price for regular peaked at about $3.90/gal, far from the $4.67/gal cited in the article as the nation's average. And of course, the price of gas has increased from a low of $1,79/gal (paid in Jan.) to my most recent fill-up at $2.63/gal the other day. And the first citing of a tropical storm in the Gulf of Mexico will send the price up another $.50/gal.
This article is further confirmation that the collective intelligence of our populace continues to sink bit-by-bit each year. All these gas guzzler buyers will be complaining ad nauseam as the price of gas continues to rise, just as the Saudis had planned all along.
This article is further confirmation that the collective intelligence of our populace continues to sink bit-by-bit each year. All these gas guzzler buyers will be complaining ad nauseam as the price of gas continues to rise, just as the Saudis had planned all along.
4
Mr. Tufteland didn't trade his hybrid for a (gasp) SUV. His Subaru Forrester is another small car, with a small, efficient engine, but a tallish body. And not to knock a Forrester, as I have two in my family, but judging by the powerlines in that photo background, they likely aren't venturing too far off the beaten path in that new car. And I'll bet if they ever need to pack three kids, a dog, and luggage for one of those ski trips, they will upgrade to a despicable but genuine SUV.
1
This just shows American greed at its finest. Save a dollar today and don't worry about tomorrow; and, it is most prominent in our government. You would think that with low interest rates (cheap money) and the need for employment opportunities, the government would be gung ho on repairing our failing infrastructure. But no, they want to say they saved a dollar by sitting on their hands, which just defers the cost down the road. It's all about money folks.
5
Vazin said "“They [hybrids] might not be the flavor of the month, but we know where fuel prices are going, and that it’s [petroleum fuel] a finite resource.”" Not really true-- hydrocarbons are still being created within the Earth and likely will continue to do so as long as the sun shines. Humans are probably using hydrocarbon stocks up at a faster rate than the hydrocarbons are being created though.
1
This abiogenic theory of fossil fuel creation is paraded around to conservatives to make them feel OK about guzzling oil for frivolous purposes. The part about it not being regenerated fast enough is never mentioned.
3
This is a common sense move. With the new models you still get good mileage. more space, storage and flexibility including off road. Hybrids are for Hollywood stars.
1
Low gas prices? Yesterday in Santa Barbara, CA, I saw "cheap gas" at $3.69 and over $4.00 elsewhere. Glad I have my hybrid. What goes down always comes back up.
9
Well you live in California. Is anything cheap in California?
What lower gas prices? Oil gets cheaper, but the cost at the pump has gone from a low of nearly $2/gal several months ago to $2.7/gal now.
7
I saw gas over $4 yesterday....
1
I live in Canada, a place is buried in meter-high snow banks for a half of a year. A Prius may never fit my daily "chaos", but a small SUV like RAV4 should take care of my year-around need.
2
I'd rather not drive any SUV's in Canada in winter, particularly on 401 or 427: its driving dynamics are bad, and with high centre of gravity they are not terribly controllable.
Better go for a 4WD sedan, if you must.
Better go for a 4WD sedan, if you must.
More SUVs on the road?
Awesome. From my sedan, I already have to back out very, very, VERY slowly from a parking spot because of the two double-decker buses flanking either side of me I can't see around.
Meanwhile, I get stuck going 30 in a 45 behind SUV drivers who can't handle their boat-size cars, but again, I can't see around them or through their windows as I can with normal-sized cars, so it isn't until I've lost valuable time that I realize I can pass.
Then there are the SUV drivers who use their planets-on-wheels to try to intimidate me into speeding on their behalf. Look, when I'm driving 65 in a 55, and in the cruising lane, I ain't dawdling, ya'll.
SUVs. Another measure of American stupidity on display for all the world to see.
Awesome. From my sedan, I already have to back out very, very, VERY slowly from a parking spot because of the two double-decker buses flanking either side of me I can't see around.
Meanwhile, I get stuck going 30 in a 45 behind SUV drivers who can't handle their boat-size cars, but again, I can't see around them or through their windows as I can with normal-sized cars, so it isn't until I've lost valuable time that I realize I can pass.
Then there are the SUV drivers who use their planets-on-wheels to try to intimidate me into speeding on their behalf. Look, when I'm driving 65 in a 55, and in the cruising lane, I ain't dawdling, ya'll.
SUVs. Another measure of American stupidity on display for all the world to see.
148
My! My! Color me stupid. I own an SUV. All the better to "get you with". You better go hide or stay off the roads.........
2
Not an SUV cheerleader; that's not why I'm responding.
RE: that lane all the way over to the left on a multi-lane highway - It's not the "cruising" lane, it's not the "fast" lane, it's the "passing" lane. If you're not passing someone, you shouldn't be in it. If you're in it, and someone wants to pass you, you should move over. I don't care if you're going 10 MPH over the stated speed limit, and you're feeling all self-righteous about being in the passing lane and holding up 20 cars behind you.
MOVE OVER.
RE: that lane all the way over to the left on a multi-lane highway - It's not the "cruising" lane, it's not the "fast" lane, it's the "passing" lane. If you're not passing someone, you shouldn't be in it. If you're in it, and someone wants to pass you, you should move over. I don't care if you're going 10 MPH over the stated speed limit, and you're feeling all self-righteous about being in the passing lane and holding up 20 cars behind you.
MOVE OVER.
2
You didn't read my comment, Chaser.
The cruising lane is the right lane, and that was the lane I was referring to, although that wasn't obvious for some, I guess. Nowhere in my post did I say I was "all the way over to the left."
What I was referring to is that PLENTY of SUV drivers seem to think that those of us who are in the right-side lane can and should still be bullied to go faster, and don't understand that THEY should move into the passing lane if they want to go faster.
Sheesh, READ before you get on some false and inapplicable tangent about self-righteousness.
The cruising lane is the right lane, and that was the lane I was referring to, although that wasn't obvious for some, I guess. Nowhere in my post did I say I was "all the way over to the left."
What I was referring to is that PLENTY of SUV drivers seem to think that those of us who are in the right-side lane can and should still be bullied to go faster, and don't understand that THEY should move into the passing lane if they want to go faster.
Sheesh, READ before you get on some false and inapplicable tangent about self-righteousness.
Gas prices in Southern California have gone up $1 per gallon in less than a month while crude oil futures have dropped. California State Legislature was supposed to be investigating price fixing. No investigation required. Price fixing in the past month has made a few billion dollars for big oil which has already been funneled, tax free, into Americans for Prosperity election slush fund. Jeb Bush thanks you.
43
Current average price in California is $3.80 and $3.90 in San Diego
2
No hybrid cars offer full-time all-wheel drive. I happily drove a 2009 Highlander Hybrid Limited, a very comfortable large vehicle which got from 18-27 mpg (depending on terrain and traffic), but its rear wheels were propelled electrically only when the car detected a skid and the traction was needed.
The Highlander was my daily driver until replaced last June with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel with full-time AWD, which actually gets better mileage, albeit burns more expensive fuel. I love the power delivery and handling, even though the car IS smaller than the Highlander.
We still have our thirsty 2004 Land Cruiser with full-time AWD. The difference in gasoline costs are minimal compared with the cost of replacing it--even with a smaller vehicle such as a Subaru Outback 3.6R V6.
The Highlander was my daily driver until replaced last June with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel with full-time AWD, which actually gets better mileage, albeit burns more expensive fuel. I love the power delivery and handling, even though the car IS smaller than the Highlander.
We still have our thirsty 2004 Land Cruiser with full-time AWD. The difference in gasoline costs are minimal compared with the cost of replacing it--even with a smaller vehicle such as a Subaru Outback 3.6R V6.
1
I hope the diesel Cherokee is safer than the gas one or that you don't get rear ended.
A few years ago we had a family of four burn to death in a Cherokee that was rear ended by a drunk driver.
Until Jeep moves the gas tank I wouldn't even consider riding in one and I don't believe that their fix of adding a trailer hitch is acceptable.
A few years ago we had a family of four burn to death in a Cherokee that was rear ended by a drunk driver.
Until Jeep moves the gas tank I wouldn't even consider riding in one and I don't believe that their fix of adding a trailer hitch is acceptable.
The narrative is that fracking is inevitable worldwide and new and extremely rich oil fields are opening as in the Arctic, there is no longer a world energy crisis, quite the opposite. For the foreseeable future energy cannot rise precipitously as any shortage will be quickly countered by what have become reserves ready to be tapped when energy reaches even slightly higher levels. So, the way forward is as it has always been - use world class innovation to create technologies that are clean and green and cheaper than fossil fuels. We are close but we are not there yet. Perhaps Mr. Obama could divert some of the taxes from Arctic oil to seriously fund such efforts. That might mitigate at least some of the impossible to understand decisions he is making. You will never convince people to endure hardship for a nebulous proposition - but people just love discounts today.
1
I don't really understand this article because with hybrids like the Prius C, you can get a fairly decent hybrid car for 16k dollars. The Subaru Forester mentioned has a base price of 22k and change. I'm not saying they are the same car, it's just that you will save hundreds of dollars a year if you purchase a hybrid on the MPG savings, and there is nothing necessarily true about the car being more expensive. The standard size base Prius has a sticker of 24k dollars and change. The difference then between the Subaru shown in the image and those in its class is somewhere in the 2k dollar range, assuming no haggling, no negotiation purchase of a new car as opposed to savvy purchasing of a lightly used model. I can't imagine with normal driving the savings to take 10 years to recuperate costs as the article mentions.
2
I have a 2007 Camry hybrid and after 110,000 miles it still purrs like a kitten. I still get 45 mpg in the warmer months - just like the day I bought it. No battery issues, no mechanical issues, I hardly even notice the electric engine. Why would I want something else? The only improvement would be an AWD hybrid with good mileage - that I would trade in for.
18
Your car's performance is an anomaly, congratulations!
We bought a new car this year. A 2015 Suburu SUV. We tried all the hybrids on the market. You only get electric power when you drive 25 mph or less. We live in a rural area. Seldom do we drive 25 mph. When we drive through our town of 1200 it's .6 miles. When we drive through the next town of 4000, 25 mph. about 3 miles total. The rest of the time we are driving more than 25 mph. Hardly worth the expense. Not as comfortable as our SUV. We are over 60, want to save the environment but this doesn't do it.
2
You didn't do your homework very well. Hybrids run the electric motor 100% of the time, but the gasoline engine will not stay off above 25mph. When you go above 25mph, your electric motor is still pulling half the load, but the gasoline engine is helping it along, and sometimes helps recharge the batteries as well.
Our hybrid always got the best gas mileage on highway travel, no matter what anyone says about hybrids only saving gas in stop and go traffic.
Our hybrid always got the best gas mileage on highway travel, no matter what anyone says about hybrids only saving gas in stop and go traffic.
Slow speeds are the only time a non plug-in hybrid will be on pure electric power. But the electric motor will be frequently turning on and off to assist the internal combustion engine. Likewise the generator will frequently turn on or off depending on when you press the brakes or when that's the most efficient use of the internal combustion engine's power. The point of a hybrid isn't to run in pure electric mode. The point is to maximize the fuel efficiency overall. Having said that, the biggest efficiency gains are likely to be where there is stop-and-go traffic or hilly terrain.
Graduated raises in the federal gas tax over the next five years would fund much-needed highway improvements, make fuel-efficient vehicles more attractive to consumers, whether that efficiency is achieved through better gasoline-engine technology, diesel technology or hybrid setups, and, will decrease the amount of carbon emissions going into the air.
But, taxes are the representation of the DEVIL himself in the current political environment, so the most logical way to mitigate all of these serious issues is simply dead on arrival in Congress.
Fasten your seatbelts, folks - the future looks like a bumpy ride for both humanity and the animal kingdom.
But, taxes are the representation of the DEVIL himself in the current political environment, so the most logical way to mitigate all of these serious issues is simply dead on arrival in Congress.
Fasten your seatbelts, folks - the future looks like a bumpy ride for both humanity and the animal kingdom.
19
The price of gas in Northern CA has returned to nearly $4.00 per gallon for regular. Those who bought big SUVs when the price was less than $3.00 a few months ago are looking particularly short-sighted.
10
People are so foolish if they think that gas prices will remain low, even for a year. Did they learn absolutely nothing with the debacle of years past with gas guzzlers? I'll stick with my Honda Civic, thank you very much.
13
The only good news is that those switching from hybrids will be paying more gas taxes. Given the paralysis in Congress in funding infrastructure, now is the time for states to raise their gas tax by at least a dime to take charge of the road, bridge, and rail repairs and improvements such as dedicated high-speed rail. A Northeast compact by the states to do so would be a giant stride toward putting people to work and creating a 21st century infrastructure that would attack more jobs to the region
42
I'm in favor of a higher gas tax as long as we end the diversion of the highway trust fund to mass transit. Want money? Get it on your own.
First, it should be noted that today's newer SUV's, trucks and crossovers are more fuel efficient that they were 10 - 15 years ago. In 2015 so far, 63% of F150's (the best selling vehicle in the United States for over three decades) have been ordered with a V6 engine. Back in the late 90's, that would have been unheard of. V6's in full sized trucks were reserved for the most basic, stripped, fleet vehicle. But more broadly, Americans have just always preferred larger, more powerful cars. The psychology behind that isn't so difficult to understand. They'll willingly pare back when economics demand it, but when conditions change in their favor they'll go right back to buying bigger and more powerful. So until the makers of hybrids and electrics can build cars that are as big, fast (and most critically) affordable to purchase as ones that run on gas, we'll always have that dynamic.
3
I have two cars, a Lexus CT200 hybrid (a Prius engine) and a Mercedes 280. The latter is a nice car to drive but is rarely driven. It is expensive to maintain and guzzles fuel. On the other hand, the Lexus sips. The people quoted in the article seem quite short sighted. It goes without saying that gas prices will once again rise since fossil fuels are a limited resource. It seems there's no fool like the American people.
7
Don't people realize prices will go back to what they were two years ago? Do me a favor, if you want those guzzlers, fine, but when gas returns to $4, I don't want to hear the complaining. I for one am very loyal to my now 5 year old hybrid.
10
Oh how quickly we forget, America of the short term memory. Instant satisfaction, instant gratification. How many times have we been through this? How many times have we seen that when we get lower gas prices we act like a pack of greedy Ferengi and NEVER plan for the future? Then when the gas prices go back up, we cry like petulant children expecting sympathy for all out woes because we bought the phallic fallacy of an SUV? Are we EVER gonna learn from the past?
America the dense still thrives in this country.
America the dense still thrives in this country.
11
We have a SUV like vehicle and a Prius C. Having gained my license more than 30 years ago, I've seen prices go up and down wildly, so we do our best to isolate ourselves from the swings. We live in a highly walkable area that has decent public transit. The SUV sits forlornly most of the time. We hate driving it and if we didn't have the occasional need to carry more than 5 we would own another Prius or other hybrid. The SUV is cruelly wasteful and an embarrassment. Although we also own a weekend sports car whose performance can only be explored on a racetrack, for around town use trying to maximize MPG on every drive to set a new personal record is quite fun and challenging. Personal best on a semi-regular 30 mile drive is over 64 mpg.
3
Hybrids are too expensive and the SUV buying is short-sighted. I'll stick with my hatchback and know I'll be able to fit into small parking spots and enjoy decent, if not hybrid, gas mileage.
8
If this isn't a classic example of "the tragedy of the commons", I don't know what is. The cost is not nearly as important as the resource being used and its effect on the earth. We are headed down a dangerous path when otherwise environmentally conscious people succumb to the Hummer mentality.
100
Indeed, the cost of using gasoline is greater than the purchase price.
If we could run cars on self-righteousness, yours would go forever!
Bought the first hybrid Ford Fusion. While it may have been the Car of Year in 2010, it is disappointing five years later. It makes noises the dealer can't identify, but assures me it "won't hurt anything". My wife refuses to drive in it with me. Don't think I will be in a hurry to try this again.
2
Get a Toyota.
4
Humans have the foresight of an ant. Actually, ants probably have more foresight. In a culture that glorifies instant gratification and only looks as far as the next quarterly return or next election cycle, is it any wonder why so many Americans would act in a myopic way?
Once the disastrous fracked shale oil runs out, once we've tapped out the Arctic oil and devastated its environment, then where will our oil come from? Anyone who takes a long view of human society can see that renewables (solar, geothermal, hydroelectric, other undisocovered sources) are the only way to go. We can already convert our gas guzzlers into ethanol or methanol guzzlers as a stop gas measure (without compromising food security). At least those sources would be carbon neutral and we wouldn't be extracting fossil fuels from long-dead dinosaurs. But Shell. Exxon, BP, Chevron and the other Voldemorts of the petroleum empire would never allow this.
Once the disastrous fracked shale oil runs out, once we've tapped out the Arctic oil and devastated its environment, then where will our oil come from? Anyone who takes a long view of human society can see that renewables (solar, geothermal, hydroelectric, other undisocovered sources) are the only way to go. We can already convert our gas guzzlers into ethanol or methanol guzzlers as a stop gas measure (without compromising food security). At least those sources would be carbon neutral and we wouldn't be extracting fossil fuels from long-dead dinosaurs. But Shell. Exxon, BP, Chevron and the other Voldemorts of the petroleum empire would never allow this.
14
I"m old enough to remember this exact same cycle back in the 1970s. Gas prices soared and people bought small, fuel efficient cars. Some companies even came out with electric cars. I worked on a project for Sears to come out with an electric car. But when gas prices dropped in the 1980s, people started buying SUVs and Hummers and cars that featured rapid acceleration. No love for the "little rust buckets." People call electric cars and hybrids "punishment cars" because you pay extra for an inferior driving experience. In 10 years, the cycle will repeat.
2
I am convinced gas will go back to $3.50 or more a gallon within five years, which is why I want my next car to be even more fuel-efficient than my current Hyundai Elantra. Contrary to what auto ads say, I don't need to climb a mountain or ford a stream, but I do need to save on gas so that I can use my money for other things.
94
$3.50 within 5 years? It is nearly $4 NOW in California.
2
Gas is already over $3.60 in the LA area. This is America - I'm getting what I want today and I'll worry about tomorrow...the day after tomorrow. Maybe.
I (kind of) can't wait for the inevitable reversal/shock and a bunch of stories about people "caught off guard" by a jump in prices. You know, like a few years ago.
I (kind of) can't wait for the inevitable reversal/shock and a bunch of stories about people "caught off guard" by a jump in prices. You know, like a few years ago.
1
It already is here in California. At the beginning of the year when it was $1.79 per gallon the giant Ford F150s and other gas hogs were flying off the lots and the hybrids were collecting dust. Now that gas has risen back up to almost where it was before the glut---many that bought are complaining to the hilt. It never ends. And they see no harm in their decision. Ignorance is the cause of all our problems.
1
A hybrid is a combination of a riding lawn mower ($1500), an electric golfcart ($3000) and a computer ($300). Why does it cost so much to begin with?, In automobile pricing parlance, these vehicles should cost in the ten to fifteen thousand dollar range.
Making them most affordable to new buyers, especially to those looking to save through fuel economy, is the key to selling them. What i suspect is going on is that Toyota and others are keeping the prices high, so as not to compete with their gas guzzling suv truckcars.
A carbon tax on oil--$10/barrel--with all of the revenue used as an incentive to buyers of hybrids/electrics based on highest mpg and lowest price would solve this problem.
Add a 50% made in USA to this. Laws passed to curtail global warming, the real issue here, should trump any WTO trade agreements. If the U.S. shows how easily this can be done, the rest of the world, including China, will follow.
Making them most affordable to new buyers, especially to those looking to save through fuel economy, is the key to selling them. What i suspect is going on is that Toyota and others are keeping the prices high, so as not to compete with their gas guzzling suv truckcars.
A carbon tax on oil--$10/barrel--with all of the revenue used as an incentive to buyers of hybrids/electrics based on highest mpg and lowest price would solve this problem.
Add a 50% made in USA to this. Laws passed to curtail global warming, the real issue here, should trump any WTO trade agreements. If the U.S. shows how easily this can be done, the rest of the world, including China, will follow.
50
A hybrid is a lot heavier and drives a lot faster and farther than a golf cart or lawn mower. That means a much bigger battery and that's where much of the cost comes from. Your conspiracy theory notwithstanding, the automakers would like to be able to make lower-cost electric vehicles. But that will be gradual process as technology improves and development costs are amortized.
3
Rather than suspecting something nefarious, I think the truth lies more in (1) cost recovery to design and build these more complex vehicles and (2) like any other product, the fewer you make the more each unit costs.
3
As the saying goes, "Why do they charge that much? Because they can."
1
It seems very short sighted, to me anyway, to have made the leap and then switch. I'm perfectly happy with my 2014 Honda Accord averaging 30-35mpg. I had an Explorer that guzzled gas like crazy and I would never go back to that for any reason as well as having major issues with Fords.
31
We own a Suburu because it SEEMS to be free of the problems that American cars have. I'd love to buy an American car but tell me what car doesn't get thousands if not millions of recalls that is American. We look at Jeep and it doesn't ride comfortable and we don't climb dirt hills. Other than the air bag problem, Honda and Toyota don't have many if any major problems and our Suburu is #1 in almost all surveys. Mercedes and Audi are out of our price range as is Rolls Royce.
HAIL!!! Long live fossel fuels and energy giants. Long live subsidies to gas producers! No subsidies for non-polluters!!! Sure, go ahead keep buying those gas-burning cars. Who cares about the air we breath. Forget about the connection between polluted air and health issues like asthma. As long as we keep those oil producers in business. Yep, lots of logic in that, puppets.
104
"Long live fossel fuels and energy giants."
Without fossil fuels you wouldn't be typing on this message on your computer. In fact you might not even be alive with the warmth fossil fuels have provided through Pennsylvania winters. And don't forget antibiotic manufacture.
Without fossil fuels you wouldn't be typing on this message on your computer. In fact you might not even be alive with the warmth fossil fuels have provided through Pennsylvania winters. And don't forget antibiotic manufacture.
1
I wonder if it's not so much gas prices, but rather the steep mileage improvements in gasoline cars that is driving this behavior. My current Mazda3 gives almost 45 miles a gallon and is not even a hybrid. I am in the market looking for hybrid the cars but with limited model choices, I am almost forced to look for a traditional high mileage gasoline cars
16
"Gas Prices Lower"????? Where have you been living? At my local station prices have risen steadily for several months!
15
The danger of not reading an entire article before commenting is that you don't see the likes of "And with fuel prices increasing again, industry executives, including Ms. Fletcher, see a return to costly gasoline as merely a matter of time."
4
Americans aren't likely to let reading get in the way of their thinking any time soon.
3
Five to ten years from now, the NY Times will publish an article about buyers flocking back to hybrids/electrics. We are a fickle bunch.
39
You are right, buy it won't be "five to ten years from now." More likely, it will be five to ten months from now.
1
Guilty! I had an '01 prius...first off the boat, but only drive about 6K per year, so the battery longevity/replacement became an issue weighing on me and I replaced with the Jetta gas turbo. 1.8 liters of torqued-out fun!
2
Just love trendy things, eh?
9
Why didn't you "buy American"?
1
This article really doesn't describe what "hybrid" technology is being traded in on "S.U.V.'s" so the impression here is that any green vehicle owner will roll over for lower gas prices. There are hybrids that deliver little improvement for the extra cost, and there are hybrids that practically do pay for themselves. Then too, there are use cases and driving styles that lend themselves to alternative fuels, hybrid drive and greener tech. But that doesn't mean those cars are a good fit for everyone yet. I'm a perfect candidate for a Volt. My commute is 31 miles, well within it's battery-only 40 mile range. I occasionally take longer trips where the gas generator seamlessly lets me drive as far as I need to go without worrying about charging, and gives me about 40 MPG in return. I can charge at home overnight and don't depend on any public charging infrastructure. This is as perfect a fit as it gets. But other scenarios might be a good fit as well. Right now, while there are ranges of mild hybrids to pure battery electrics to hydrogen electrics, there will be some shakeout and people will rethink which is a good fit as gas prices fluctuate. But if you think that alternative fuel and hybrid cars are going away because gas is going to stay cheap, I'd say you're fooling yourself.
10
Just noting that the 2016 Volt will go 50 miles on a battery charge.
A temporary drop in gasoline prices, and so many Americans behave like it will last forever -- or even several years. In California, prices have already risen from under three dollars a gallon, to almost four dollars in the past couple of months. Even the most efficient SUVs 25-26 mpg. The best hybrids get about double that figure.
As long as a substantial percentage of Americans continue to live in the fantasy world of excessive consumerism and unlimited cheap energy, we'll continue to fall behind the rest of the developed world, which is embracing advanced technology and a realistic future.
As long as a substantial percentage of Americans continue to live in the fantasy world of excessive consumerism and unlimited cheap energy, we'll continue to fall behind the rest of the developed world, which is embracing advanced technology and a realistic future.
87
A substantial number of Americans DO live in a fantasy world...just look at the viewership of Fox "News," right-wing websites, and voters in the GOP primaries.
That self-entitled fantasy world one thought was vanquished in 1945--but it became us!
That self-entitled fantasy world one thought was vanquished in 1945--but it became us!
5
"we'll continue to fall behind the rest of the developed world, which is embracing advanced technology and a realistic future."
Car sales in China have been on the increase. Somehow I doubt they are buying Prius.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/car-registrations
Car sales in China have been on the increase. Somehow I doubt they are buying Prius.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/car-registrations
Mr. Tufteland might think an extra 12 miles per gallon is not worth the extra comfort he now enjoys in his new SUV, but that extra MPG adds up - saving at least 5 gallons of gas per tank or 120 gallons annually. The picture of him and his girlfriend at Red Rock Canyon is telling. If everybody continues to think like him, future generations will not be able to enjoy the pristine blue skies and climate he so enjoys. Man-made global warming is a fact and we should all continue to do our part to address it - cheap gas or not.
156
To expand on Mr. Tufteland's case for our fellow readers, a 33 MPG car gets .030 GPM and a 45 MPG car gets .022 GPM. Assuming 15,000 miles, the 33 MPG car uses 455 gallons (15,000 M * .030 GPM) and the 45 MPG car uses 333 gallons. As you mentioned, that's your 120 gallon savings.
120 gallons of gas in a year, call gas $4/gallon, is $480 saved/year.
I don't think that's much. The reason is that diminishing marginal returns on GPM have already kicked in by the time you're driving a 33 MPG car. The real gas & dollar savings is when you're at the low end of the MPG spectrum. Think large trucks.
A 5 MPG truck gets .200 GPM, but a 17 MPG truck (the same 12 MPG upgrade) gets just .059 GPM. That's .141 gallons less, or about a 75% decrease in the amount of gasoline used to drive one mile by upgrading from 5 MPG to 17 MPG. Assuming the same 15,000 miles driven, the 5 MPG truck would need 3,000 gallons of gas and the 17 MPG truck would need 882 gallons.
The difference in this scenario, using the same 12 MPG increase, is 2,118 gallons of gas saved. At that same $4/gallon, you're talking real money: $8,472 saved/year.
My point is threefold:
1. Focus, from an environmental standpoint, needs to be on the low-end of the MPG spectrum. High-end upgrades have far lower impact.
2. Be careful when you're thinking only in terms of MPG. GPM is a much better metric.
3. Mr. Tufteland is already doing just fine as far as gas economy is concerned.
120 gallons of gas in a year, call gas $4/gallon, is $480 saved/year.
I don't think that's much. The reason is that diminishing marginal returns on GPM have already kicked in by the time you're driving a 33 MPG car. The real gas & dollar savings is when you're at the low end of the MPG spectrum. Think large trucks.
A 5 MPG truck gets .200 GPM, but a 17 MPG truck (the same 12 MPG upgrade) gets just .059 GPM. That's .141 gallons less, or about a 75% decrease in the amount of gasoline used to drive one mile by upgrading from 5 MPG to 17 MPG. Assuming the same 15,000 miles driven, the 5 MPG truck would need 3,000 gallons of gas and the 17 MPG truck would need 882 gallons.
The difference in this scenario, using the same 12 MPG increase, is 2,118 gallons of gas saved. At that same $4/gallon, you're talking real money: $8,472 saved/year.
My point is threefold:
1. Focus, from an environmental standpoint, needs to be on the low-end of the MPG spectrum. High-end upgrades have far lower impact.
2. Be careful when you're thinking only in terms of MPG. GPM is a much better metric.
3. Mr. Tufteland is already doing just fine as far as gas economy is concerned.
"Man-made global warming is a fact"
Actually its not. The computer models have disagreed substantially with observations for the past 17 years. The disagreement is especially strong for comparisons with satellite data which is more accurate. The computer models have man-made global warming as the central thesis. Since the models are disagreeing with observed data, the scientific process is to re-examine your theories and revise them.
Actually its not. The computer models have disagreed substantially with observations for the past 17 years. The disagreement is especially strong for comparisons with satellite data which is more accurate. The computer models have man-made global warming as the central thesis. Since the models are disagreeing with observed data, the scientific process is to re-examine your theories and revise them.
1
Say what you will about global warming, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with "pristine blue skies."
This makes perfect sense, because we all know that fuel prices will NEVER, EVER increase, and that emissions really make the environment much more pleasant for unicorns and butterflies. I'm keeping my Prius, thank you very much.
220
Me too. Actually my wife has a Prius and a Leaf for me. The reason we bought them is that they are the two lowest C02 cars in the world and still are. But because humans evolved from being survivalists, the other 95% of the population thinks of themselves first, and only themselves. Pretty hard to change what's in your DNA.
Maybe you missed the line where they say buyers are inured toward $3.50/gal gas... Ben there/done that and btw the CUVs they're buying get nearly 30 mpg, so some understand what they're doing.
Again...as HL Menken once said...."No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".........not to mention the span of their memories...
154
I must be getting old - I recall similar stories being written every time there is a big fluctuation in gas prices. The last time it was about SUV and pickup owners ditching their heavy fuel consuming machines when gas prices peaked. You'd think by now that people would have learned that what goes down must come up (and vice versa). As for Mr. Tufteland, it sounds like his decision was driven more by lifestyle changes than a desire to ditch his hybrid because of gas prices. Having driven plenty of Forest Service roads, I can definitely agree that my Outback is infinitely preferable to my wife's (commuter vehicle) Prius. Different conditions, different needs.
28
Thought the same thing about a lifestyle change for the fellow in the article. And SUV alternatives are much better on fuel than they once were. As a couple, you can choose 1 Prius + 1 Outback--probably the perfect combination. Still better than 2 Outbacks--or two Canyonero's.
Currently single, I need one car that can do everything, which means it does most things fine but nothing very well (including mileage). Outback has great utility, but crummy mileage. Prius has good mileage but little utility (and seriously no fun). Electric would not be suitable for a one-car household, unless that household is dense city-dwelling.
Current solution for me=VW GTI. Hatchback utility, OK on normal dirt roads and a few inches of snow (not rutted forest roads and deep snow). Enough "go" for living at altitude and driving mountain passes. 29mpg on my daily commute; 39 on highway-only long distance trips. Next car: diesel.
Currently single, I need one car that can do everything, which means it does most things fine but nothing very well (including mileage). Outback has great utility, but crummy mileage. Prius has good mileage but little utility (and seriously no fun). Electric would not be suitable for a one-car household, unless that household is dense city-dwelling.
Current solution for me=VW GTI. Hatchback utility, OK on normal dirt roads and a few inches of snow (not rutted forest roads and deep snow). Enough "go" for living at altitude and driving mountain passes. 29mpg on my daily commute; 39 on highway-only long distance trips. Next car: diesel.
1
Subaru makes a diesel Outback for everywhere except the good old USofA. I suspect if they brought that here they wouldn't be able to build enough of the things. Their current 4 cylinder gasoline boxer engine in non-turbo form lacks torque and decent mileage; the diesel addresses both of those issues.
2
But how many people live near Red Rock Canyon,or any canyon, to go off- roading in their SUVs? How often is the "need" to be roaring around dirt roads? Not very often, I'll bet. Most SUV's are riding around suburban highways, interstates, and taking up two parking spaces in a parking lot.
3
I do not understand how people make the conclusion that because gas prices are cheap, buying a gas guzzler is a good idea. First, there is the obvious point that these cars are bad for the environment. Second, there is the point that a car with good gas mileage is still going to be have cheaper gas costs regardless of the cost of gas. Third, gas prices can go up and make your 'investment' stupid.
143
Gas guzzler is really getting to be a passe term. Few mainstream vehicles are in the old 7-9 mpg range. Most of the SUV's people are buying today are not huge Expeditions or Suburbans but relatively small crossover still vehicles that still get good mileage while providing a host of features owners like. I know many just hate the thought of the SUV in any form but often than hatred is irrational and doesn't recognize that not everyone is served by one small style of vehicle.
6
George S, my definition of good gas mileage is solar panels on the roof + plug-in electric vehicle.
1
No kidding. My Prius is the best car I have ever owned and the price of fuel makes no difference to me. FWIW gas in WA has gone up about a dollar a gallon in recent weeks; I hope the SUV buyers are enjoying themselves...
2
It's fairly amazing how narrow self-interest rules this species... And if self-interest is at play, then there need to be incentives to get people to act in the environment's interest.
56
It's weirder than people going for narrow self-interest. When we talk about self-interest, we usually mean things like "economic self-interest". Well, SUV's fail on that front. So the switch is about either some notion of SUVs being flashier or the feeling of power that comes from a big car (and the power of deciding to do what you want regardless of the larger impact). Either way, the "self-interest" in this switch boils down to an infantile motivation, something like "more fun" or "I can do whatever I want". It's worse than greed!
44
Dagwood, Good point. I read that it was widely known that SUVs cause lots of injury to people when an SUV hits a car. Try to imagine the mindset of someone who knows that he/she will cause injury in the event of an accident and goes ahead and buys an SUV.
4
I know that is why I bought my SUV - to kill...........get real!
We bought a Leaf last Oct for $29k. I just received a $12.5k tax refund for it (fed/state).
The killer app for an electric vehicle is as a second car. Grocery getter, to and from yoga and farmer's market. Yada, yada. Most families have 2 cars, and 95% of the trips are local.
My wife and I haggle on who gets to drive it. A working man's Telsa. I bought it for the economics, but am blown away by the fun of driving with instant silent acceleration. Who knew? Watch out Whole Foods parking lot.
I get 3.5 miles per KW. If I drove the average 1000 miles a mo (thank God I don't) then it's 285 KW use or $35 at 12.5 cents KW here. Our little RAV4 gets 22 mpg in the city and at $2.50 gallon that would be $115 month. $80 saving mo using Leaf instead.
The net cost of the car was $17k after tax refunds. If I subtract out the $80 mo gas saving then I'm at $12k cost for the car for 60 months. I'm guess the car will be worth at least $6k in 60 months. So the car costs $100 month at most over 5 years. That's a cell phone bill, not a car payment.
Where you really win is solar panels. If I produce 285 KW for my house I save $35. If I use that same energy to power my Leaf I save $115. Amazing.