Although I was raised Roman Catholic I left the church many years ago - at that time due what I viewed as women's second class citizenship in the church and their nonsensical positions on abortion, birth control and divorce. During my time in college and then again starting in my 30's I became a spiritual pilgrim and explored alternative philosophies. While I fall into the "none of the above" category, I consider myself to be spiritual rather than religious.
50
Fewer Christians, more crime, and far more heart break.
10
With all the bad news each day, it's refreshing to see some good news.
93
The majority of these comments are anti-Christian and anti-religious. It proves that the majority of the NYT readers disdain religion. They do not speak for the majority of Americans. Some of the comments are quite distasteful and appear to come from angry and embittered people. Those of us who believe and love our faith must disagree and speak out against these mean and vicious attacks.
16
I don't disdain religion, I disdain hate speech and hypocrisy and I believe in abiding by the separation of Church and State.
164
Perhaps there are not more atheists now than in the past, just fewer closeted ones. Christianity is becoming less the social norm and more the social pariah. It is no longer expedient to appear Christian. It is a currency to be tossed like any other when it depreciates.
28
"On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both."
-Senator Barry Goldwater
And to think, Goldwater was once THE right wing nut job. Funny that he would be considered too far to the left to be elected these days, particularly in Arizona.
-Senator Barry Goldwater
And to think, Goldwater was once THE right wing nut job. Funny that he would be considered too far to the left to be elected these days, particularly in Arizona.
90
Pascal's wager?
7
It was time.
The fleecing of the flock has been going on for too long. Evangelical hucksters
and their mega churches have had their time in the sun.
The fleecing of the flock has been going on for too long. Evangelical hucksters
and their mega churches have had their time in the sun.
63
Religion was invented to keep the poor from murdering the rich...Napoleon. You can bet that when one is in trouble they scream for Jesus. Why is that. Meh.
15
As a follower of Jesus I realized decades ago that Salvation in Jesus is the cure for Christianity plus every other confusion and oppression.
Ordained Christians and other so called Christian Leaders universally devote their lives to doing things Jesus said never do.
From fakers like the Clintons, Barack Obama, Pope Francis, Pat Roberstson, etc., no follower of Jesus wants to identify with their false presentation of Jesus.
The problem with polls is that there is no box for those of us who are followers of Jesus to check.
Ordained Christians and other so called Christian Leaders universally devote their lives to doing things Jesus said never do.
From fakers like the Clintons, Barack Obama, Pope Francis, Pat Roberstson, etc., no follower of Jesus wants to identify with their false presentation of Jesus.
The problem with polls is that there is no box for those of us who are followers of Jesus to check.
3
This survery can not be correct because most people will answer with 'it's none of your business' when asked by a stranger or when cold called on the phone re all of these things: my religion, my politics, my health, my children, my voting record, my earnings, my sex life, my work, my family.
Most people who do answer, if not way-left or way-right of center, will answer with some middle of the road non-answer, so as not to be put in a box, or placed on some list.
Just saying.
Most people who do answer, if not way-left or way-right of center, will answer with some middle of the road non-answer, so as not to be put in a box, or placed on some list.
Just saying.
8
Well, I just wish, everybody else does this in public life as well. And stop with the nonsense of proclaiming themselves to be Christians (or whatever else they want to be), especially those running for office. We do *not* need to whether they are Christian, or even if they are religious. That aspect has absolutely nothing to do with their job.
39
The people who think there is no god are more wrong than the people who think they know who god is.
5
More atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than any other human acts against other humans throughout history. Could that be a part of the reason?
85
Almost everyone exalting the decline in the Christian population also proclaim the decline of the white population to be a good thing. You would never hear any of these same people saying a decline in the Muslim or black population is positive. Anti-white Christian bigotry is exhibited with increasing regularity. On this issue, I am sorry progressives, but you are on the wrong side of history.
7
If the special tax exemption of religious institutions, far beyond that of any other type of charitable institution, is finally ruled unconstitutional, which is indeed is, the country may finally reach a turning point to on ending the damage done by the fundamentalists of every religion trying to force their warped views of morality on the rest of us.
And there would be another $80B in the tax coffers.
And there would be another $80B in the tax coffers.
70
Historically speaking we are in the very crucible of change. In my lifetime we have gone from mainframes to ubiquitous pocket-sized networked supercomputers. At a time of explosive growth of knowledge, and a corresponding revolution of expectations, Christianity has become a plaything in the hands of politicians who stand opposed to the inevitable accompanying social changes. Forgetting that we are minorities in a big world, they use religion as a motivation to fear and hate the Other. So on top of its total intellectual bankruptcy, political Christianity is widely seen as morally bankrupt.
60
This is such good news. I was thinking the opposite was true as conservative groups seem to be scoring victories for inserting religion into our daily lives. When I was younger religion seemed to be more of a private affair, but these days it seems to be in our faces all the time. So hopefully that trend will not continue.
63
Without religion, on what do you base your moral values? What your mama said? Your government? Your political party? Or Game of Thrones?
7
In our faces? You mean like homosexuality?
4
Rich - When I was a kid I went to school with a girl whose family had no religion. I had never met anyone who didn't attend church regularly and as a Catholic I was given rules for every bit of my day.
I asked this girl what kept her so well behaved and she replied simply "because it's the right thing to do."
Empathy, fairness, generosity, honesty..... A person doesn't have to be religious to have these qualities.
I asked this girl what kept her so well behaved and she replied simply "because it's the right thing to do."
Empathy, fairness, generosity, honesty..... A person doesn't have to be religious to have these qualities.
96
I'm not religious at all, but have been mighty impressed with this new pope who speaks with care about the poor, the environment, our precious earth and being kind to all including those you don't agree with (i.e. gays, etc.)
I generally have no problem with those that practice a particular religion, but I am distressed and amazed at recent supreme court decisions that seem to have no problem with the religious forcing their ways and beliefs on the rest of us. We should not have to participate in public prayer in order to obtain a roofing permit. We should not have an employer dictating what medical care or treatment we can have, due to their religion. Public squares, public schools and public courthouses and legislatures should be free from religion. You are welcome to pray and practice at your church, please stop forcing the rest of us to do so in the public square.
I generally have no problem with those that practice a particular religion, but I am distressed and amazed at recent supreme court decisions that seem to have no problem with the religious forcing their ways and beliefs on the rest of us. We should not have to participate in public prayer in order to obtain a roofing permit. We should not have an employer dictating what medical care or treatment we can have, due to their religion. Public squares, public schools and public courthouses and legislatures should be free from religion. You are welcome to pray and practice at your church, please stop forcing the rest of us to do so in the public square.
80
Pretty good job of paraphrasing the Sermon on the Mount, Sam. Parts of it, anyway. Not bad at all.
9
It is inevitable that religion will eventually disappear. We've always thought we were important, the literal "center of the universe", but we now that we are not the center of anything. Every human being could vanish and the universe wouldn't notice nor care about our absence. Our overbearing pride and ignorance created God. We need him, or at least we think we do.
Even in the year 2015 our scientists can create amazing things, even miracles. Eventually we will have unlimited power over our universe, and it will be more clear than ever that there is no God, and if there is, he/she is nothing special.
Even in the year 2015 our scientists can create amazing things, even miracles. Eventually we will have unlimited power over our universe, and it will be more clear than ever that there is no God, and if there is, he/she is nothing special.
16
So much of religion is control. Religion had exercised control of peoples' thoughts, control of their hopes and control of their actions. This also included control of women by men in so many aspects of life. At least some are getting tired of it all.
61
After being raised in a moderate Christian religious family, I find that the faith I once espoused is being used in ways I feel are morally abhorrent although historically there is nothing new going on, as demonstrated by the Salem Witch Trials.
Christianity in the US is being papered over by folks who use it to advance their own economic and political positions.
Makes identifying as a Christian very unpalatable. I wonder if this is the reason for the poll results?
Christianity in the US is being papered over by folks who use it to advance their own economic and political positions.
Makes identifying as a Christian very unpalatable. I wonder if this is the reason for the poll results?
53
My son and I went to hear Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss speak last year. The size of the audience, not to mention the distance some people traveled just to attend, gave me hope that we are not as lost as the Christian right would have us believe. The auditorium was over-flowing, unlike current church pews. Religion is nasty, limiting and an intellectual dead end - the non-religious welcome the rise of curiosity and a real hope for inclusiveness and the future.
64
There's also a huge decline in the quality of our education. Isn't it funny that there are still those who think that "the more educated" we become, the less Christians there will be. And yet the actual numbers prove otherwise. We are dumber now than we've been in decades AND we have less Christians. See how that works?
6
There are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to education. But the correlation between secularism and education still exists. Think about places in northern Europe (Sweden, Finland, etc.) compared to places in the Middle East. Northern European countries are highly secular and boast some of the best educational systems in world, and we all know how the Middle East fairs with their education and high religiosity.
My point is that you cannot blame our failing education system on secularism, especially considering that the right-wing religious conservatives are usually to blame when there is a lack of funding on social programs like education. (Not to mention Bush's No Child Left Behind Act which made inner-city schools even worse, and increased standardized testing which has proven time and time again to have little impact on actual educational growth).
My point is that you cannot blame our failing education system on secularism, especially considering that the right-wing religious conservatives are usually to blame when there is a lack of funding on social programs like education. (Not to mention Bush's No Child Left Behind Act which made inner-city schools even worse, and increased standardized testing which has proven time and time again to have little impact on actual educational growth).
57
Quiz:
Do I think the world would be better off if everyone thought or believed the way I do?
Do I patronize or disdain those who think differently from me?
Do I categorize people?
Do I feel intellectually or morally superior to those who don't think as I do?
Am I unable to have a calm discussion with a person who thinks the opposite of what I think?
Do I think I have all the answers?
Which am I - a fundamentalist religious person or a fundamentalist nonbeliever?
Do I think the world would be better off if everyone thought or believed the way I do?
Do I patronize or disdain those who think differently from me?
Do I categorize people?
Do I feel intellectually or morally superior to those who don't think as I do?
Am I unable to have a calm discussion with a person who thinks the opposite of what I think?
Do I think I have all the answers?
Which am I - a fundamentalist religious person or a fundamentalist nonbeliever?
16
False equivalence
31
So what is the alternative? There certainly seem to be plenty of Atheists on here - where do all of you think the Universe came from? I'm not asking for the big-bang-evolution-national-selection-etc. process story, I'm asking you to reconcile your rejection of the idea of a supernatural power with the fact that even the science you love and cherish recognize that the Earth must have had an origin. Is the idea of an unplanned, unguided, random poof into existence of everything that has ever been really more logical than the idea of a supernatural power that acted decisively to create?
Atheism is the religion of hypocrites: those who reject outright one possible explanation for existence, for lack of proof, while clinging to an equally unproven alternative. You cannot reject the existence of God without affirming a belief in spontaneous and unguided creation.
Atheism is the religion of hypocrites: those who reject outright one possible explanation for existence, for lack of proof, while clinging to an equally unproven alternative. You cannot reject the existence of God without affirming a belief in spontaneous and unguided creation.
5
"Is the idea of an unplanned, unguided, random poof into existence of everything that has ever been really more logical than the idea of a supernatural power that acted decisively to create?"
Yes. We have testable evidence for the former, and nothing but baseless assertions to back up the latter.
We do not know everything. In particular, we do not fully understand the origins of the universe or of life.
So what?
Ignorance does not entail the supernatural.
Yes. We have testable evidence for the former, and nothing but baseless assertions to back up the latter.
We do not know everything. In particular, we do not fully understand the origins of the universe or of life.
So what?
Ignorance does not entail the supernatural.
33
You end up with an infinite regression. If God created the universe...in a very sloppy manner by the way...who created God...ad infinitum. The fact that the universe is a very uninhabitable enormously useless space for humans is evidence of weird unguided quantum effect.
7
Atheism is simply the lack of belief. There is no proof that any supernatural entity exists, therefore I do not believe in one. It does not mean I am proposing an alternative conclusion. By all means, many people have offered very good alternative explanations with theory and data to back it up, but to say you believe in a god simply because we can't definitely prove the universe began by anything otherwise isn't how you should treat anything. Believe on evidence, not faith. Always.
10
I hope this poll makes politicians rethink some of their bills like wanting to plaster "In God We Trust" on all governmental buildings and the Supreme Court to rethink their decisions like the Hobby Lobby and Town of Greece cases and stop using "ceremonial deism" as the way to erode even more the church/state separation wall.
31
You wrote: <> And yet ironically, you admit that evangelical Christians -most of whom are staunch conservatives (Of which I am not one) have actually bucked the trend, with their "raw numbers" increasing. As is too often the case, seems the media is missing the boat on the interpretation of the statistics and some of the "experts" such as Mike Hout, projecting his own hopes and beliefs into the process.
I am a committed Christian and will remain joyfully so. The word "affiliated" does not quite get at the extent of my commitment as it suggests a proximity to, but nonetheless a certain distance from, the church which is not accurate. A better description would be "all in".
It is amazing how quickly people forget the following:
Messiah College Professor: ‘Obama May Be the Most Explicitly Christian President in American History’
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02/20/messiah-college-professor-oba...
Messiah College Professor: ‘Obama May Be the Most Explicitly Christian President in American History’
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02/20/messiah-college-professor-oba...
4
My husband and I are also among the unaffiliated who were raised in Christian churches. Neither of us really consciously rejected the church; we just don't feel a particular need for it in our adult lives. It will be interesting to see what the numbers are in another generation or so. My husband and I still consider ourselves "Christian" but our teenaged son doesn't identify with any religion at all.
10
I blame the Hubble space telescope for the drop in religiosity among the younger generation. They have learned there are about 70 billion trillion stars in the Universe and our Milky Way itself is home to around 300 billion stars. It is difficult to indoctrinate faith and religion into someone who is privy to this information. "A picture is worth a thousand words."
21
how about unitarian-universalists? they are increasing. why? it's hard to divorce religion from common morality, or from common sense. unitarians seem to appreciate that.
6
The pastor, or priest if you prefer, was always the most dangerous individual the world has ever dealt with. Any religious leader claiming to be the mouth piece of God is a dangerous, vile person and should be avoided at all costs. Certainly, there have evil men that existed outside of the religiously affiliated, Hitler and Stalin to name a few, but the man that can tell the horde it is "God's Will" has power unimaginable.
20
I like how you inverted power and unimaginable at the end. It almost makes your ad hominem argument seem compelling.
1
No surprise here. Obama and the democrat left in this nation have been waging an all out war on Christianity since Obama took office, and his efforts have been most focused against the Catholic Church. Neither the Catholic
Church nor Protestant Christians have done much to fight back. Catholic Cardinals and Bishops appear to be in a stupor. The Shepherds appear to have fallen asleep and left their flocks to the wolves, and the wolves are eating them.
Church nor Protestant Christians have done much to fight back. Catholic Cardinals and Bishops appear to be in a stupor. The Shepherds appear to have fallen asleep and left their flocks to the wolves, and the wolves are eating them.
2
Yes the Cardinals and Bishops need to do more and stop remaining silent. Cardinal Raymond Burke is one of the few clergy members defending the Catholic faith. We lay people cannot do it alone. Catholic clergy please start speaking out against this defamation before it is too late.
OK, I'll bite, how exactly has Christianity been under attack? You seem to have missed the fact that President Obama is a church going Christian.
The Catholic church is just fine but they need to stop trying to insert Catholic dogma into public policy. This is the U.S. and there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State.
The Catholic church is just fine but they need to stop trying to insert Catholic dogma into public policy. This is the U.S. and there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State.
11
Did you ever consider that rather than "fighting", religious figures would attract/ retain more followers if they actually followed some of the more universal tenets of their religions (e.g. love thy neighborhood, help the poor) and served as role models for the community? I grew up non-religious and in university explored different religions but what struck me was that religious people were no more ethical/ moral than non-religious people and sometimes more hypocritical -- saying one thing but doing another.
37
The problem with religion for me is that religions tend to put God in a box. I feel that we can't try to put God in a box, that box is not reality and only in our minds. I deeply believe in God, but have a hard time with religion. I feel that God is so much more, and too complex to be explained or rationalized by any one religion. While there are many great people who subscribe to a particular faith, I personally feel that God is displeased due to followers of religions feeling that they and only they worship the true God. Religion has done much good in this world, but unfortunately religion is also the root of tremendous suffering in this world. Right now many have their lives run(and ended) unfairly by others religious beliefs and I find that there is a new generation who do not like having their lives dictated by others religious beliefs. Myself included.
11
Well, well. Politicizing religion does not seem to be going so well for conservative Christianity. This may be what they call Karma.
People are hungry for inclusive spirituality that brings people together with kindness and without judgement. Hm that was the original point of Christianity if I'm not mistaken.
People are hungry for inclusive spirituality that brings people together with kindness and without judgement. Hm that was the original point of Christianity if I'm not mistaken.
34
Whether there's a god or not, judging by these comments, he/she/it certainly stirs a lot of passion.
My guess is that, even if there were a god, our pathetic, mortal, finite minds would have no way of conceptualizing him/her/it. And, as one academic wag has noted, an ineffable god is a pointless god.
Unless of course ....
My guess is that, even if there were a god, our pathetic, mortal, finite minds would have no way of conceptualizing him/her/it. And, as one academic wag has noted, an ineffable god is a pointless god.
Unless of course ....
6
I've been a nonreligionist long enough now that I've forgotten what the point of religion was. Whatever it does for a person, I don't need it anymore, and that's okay.
13
"Not all religions or even Christian traditions declined so markedly. The number of evangelical Protestants dipped only slightly as a share of the population, by 1 percentage point, and actually increased in raw numbers."
The decline may be attributed to the politicization of religion....done in the most part by evangelicals....
The decline may be attributed to the politicization of religion....done in the most part by evangelicals....
13
I am wondering why there was no mention of Pope Francis and the cognitive dissonance that conservative catholics must face between his views and those on Fox News.
21
Very interesting article. One minor detail: adding all the percentages in the "Religious affiliation among adults" graph for 2014 only yields 91%, not 100%
(Evangelical Protestant 26%; Unaffiliated 23%; Catholic 21%; Mainline Protestant 15%; Non-Christian Faiths 6%.) Seems odd.
(Evangelical Protestant 26%; Unaffiliated 23%; Catholic 21%; Mainline Protestant 15%; Non-Christian Faiths 6%.) Seems odd.
2
@Robin It may be because there are people who are affiliated with religions not on the graph. I would wager that if you were to add up those identifying with minority religions, you would find your missing 9% of the adults polled.
It's in the nature of human beings to blindly follow a doctrine, even when there is no deity at the other end.
3
I think the Christ story is breaking down. It's too simplistic and self promoting to stand the scrutiny of modern science and medicine. The better educated people become the less mysticism can prevail. It wasn't that long ago that Christians burned witches alive. The loss of religious adherents will change when religions adapt to todays reality and stop trying to keep old myths alive.
12
This is a surprisingly quick decline, but not for anyone who watches TV or movies, or pays attention to popular culture. If a TV or movie protagonist is Christian, much less one who attends church or is affiliated with a particular church, it is always the exception. 20 years ago, it struck me that the decline in faithfulness in the US was at least partly a negative reaction to the religious scolds. But today, the religious scolds don't even appear in popular culture. Maybe that means we're primed for a revival of sorts. Pope Francis is certainly of the moment in that regard. As far as popular culture goes, at least, it can't get any worse for religion.
1
The most liberating moment in my life was when I, after being raised a catholic & being forced to go to church until I was 17, proudly and confidently declared myself an ardent atheist who doesn't believe in the existence of god.
I never felt freer or more comfortable in my own skin.
I never felt freer or more comfortable in my own skin.
43
Morality is a completely separate part of humanity from religion. Morality was/is developed simultaneously with our evolution. It became evolutionarily prudent to behave in a "moral" way, i.e. killing another member of the pack/tribe/herd was detrimental to the overall survival of the individual and the species. Morality is just as naturally occurring as an animal's predisposition to care for their young. I am an atheist and find it one of the greatest personal insults that I somehow am immoral or amoral for having risen beyond the infancy of thinking in our species.
The benefits that religion provides do not outweigh the negatives. This is why many are not only atheists but anti-theists.
The benefits that religion provides do not outweigh the negatives. This is why many are not only atheists but anti-theists.
54
Unfortunately, evolution (materialism/naturalism) has no place to ground objective morality. Objective morality is not just a "good idea", it is an inherent wrongness with a belief or action. So we would say that rape is evil in and of itself. It doesn't matter in what culture or point in history the act takes place. In an evolutionary paradigm morality must be limited to a subjective form. Thus, rape cannot be referred to as "evil" (objectively bad), only personally distasteful. And while many may share your distaste, and thus agree that this behavior should be limited, as expressed in social laws, another's view that rape is a natural drive for survival must not be viewed as inherently evil.
It has not surprised me that atheists, and anti-theists have agreed with this rather academic discussion on the nature of morality. What continues to be the glaring weakness in the naturalistic/materialistic worldview, is that in day-to-day living, we all actually speak and act as if rape, genocide, murder are wrong in and of themselves, not merely distasteful.
It has not surprised me that atheists, and anti-theists have agreed with this rather academic discussion on the nature of morality. What continues to be the glaring weakness in the naturalistic/materialistic worldview, is that in day-to-day living, we all actually speak and act as if rape, genocide, murder are wrong in and of themselves, not merely distasteful.
Religion has proven itself sterile. It does not contribute to a search for truth. Truth is only to be found in its thousands of year old books that are the presumed word of an omnipotent and loving God. But neither the books not the priests interpretations of books help in solving the problems of life. They don't lead to more food clothing or shelter. They don't address our health care needs, transportation needs, communication needs.
There are two explanation for our existence: science and religion. Religion gives no explanation as to how our existence works so gives no advice on how we can improve our lives and prepare for our future. That's wht I mean by its being sterile. It's truth cannot grow, it cannot be applied to physical problems, biological problems, or chemical problems. Religion ignores this world for the spiritual world, But we get no information from the spiritual world that can assist us in making cars and planes, in fighting diseases, in making new materials, new fuels, and discovering new applications for what we have previously learned. Praying to have a broken car or broken computer fixed is universally ineffective.
And omnipotence is logically impossible. An omnipotent being cannot make a brick that he cannot pick up, or a sinner he cannot save, or a saint he cannot corrupt, and on and on. It is a logical contradiction.
God helps them who help themselves is an admission that god is no help at all. We must look to science to solve problems. We do
There are two explanation for our existence: science and religion. Religion gives no explanation as to how our existence works so gives no advice on how we can improve our lives and prepare for our future. That's wht I mean by its being sterile. It's truth cannot grow, it cannot be applied to physical problems, biological problems, or chemical problems. Religion ignores this world for the spiritual world, But we get no information from the spiritual world that can assist us in making cars and planes, in fighting diseases, in making new materials, new fuels, and discovering new applications for what we have previously learned. Praying to have a broken car or broken computer fixed is universally ineffective.
And omnipotence is logically impossible. An omnipotent being cannot make a brick that he cannot pick up, or a sinner he cannot save, or a saint he cannot corrupt, and on and on. It is a logical contradiction.
God helps them who help themselves is an admission that god is no help at all. We must look to science to solve problems. We do
16
"Nearly half of the growth was from atheists and agnostics, whose tallies nearly doubled to 7 percent of adults."
And yet 97 percent of the commentorati here seem to fall in that group.
Although it is only a tiny 7 percent is is still sad to see so many people clinging to a life of unhappiness and higher health risks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/opinion/sunday/conservatives-are-happi...
Let the scientist continue their debate why that is.
My guess is the sheer mental effort of cramming the relentless existential burden of, "What the...is going on here?" into some ever fluctuating theory of accidental meaninglessness, which, when it reaches the beginning, ends up leading right back to a profession of faith, must be exhausting.
The rigidity ironically parallels a fundamentalist approach to religion. It offers none of the benefits of attaching to a rich, age-tested, framework for communal search for meaning and spiritual achievement adorned with practices and lore that embed the collective multi-generational spiritual journey into our daily, communal, family, and life-cycle experience.
Yes, modern religion relates to all these more in their inner essence as time-tested spiritual mechanisms and opportunity, rather than simply history and science, yet still has the humility not to minimize the greater issue and recognize the value of these spiritual mechanisms honed through countless experiences and generations.
And yet 97 percent of the commentorati here seem to fall in that group.
Although it is only a tiny 7 percent is is still sad to see so many people clinging to a life of unhappiness and higher health risks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/opinion/sunday/conservatives-are-happi...
Let the scientist continue their debate why that is.
My guess is the sheer mental effort of cramming the relentless existential burden of, "What the...is going on here?" into some ever fluctuating theory of accidental meaninglessness, which, when it reaches the beginning, ends up leading right back to a profession of faith, must be exhausting.
The rigidity ironically parallels a fundamentalist approach to religion. It offers none of the benefits of attaching to a rich, age-tested, framework for communal search for meaning and spiritual achievement adorned with practices and lore that embed the collective multi-generational spiritual journey into our daily, communal, family, and life-cycle experience.
Yes, modern religion relates to all these more in their inner essence as time-tested spiritual mechanisms and opportunity, rather than simply history and science, yet still has the humility not to minimize the greater issue and recognize the value of these spiritual mechanisms honed through countless experiences and generations.
5
"yet still has the humility not to minimize the greater issue and recognize the value of these spiritual mechanisms honed through countless experiences and generations."
The fact that you would describe an organization that claims to have every answer for everything without exception as humble is absurd. Atheists do not claim to have all the answers and any good atheist is willing to change their mind when the appropriate evidence dictates that they should. They are the opposite of rigid. If God spelled out my name in the stars one night and they also said "I am real, believe in me," that would probably be enough to make me change my mind. What would it take for a religious person to change theirs?
The fact that you would describe an organization that claims to have every answer for everything without exception as humble is absurd. Atheists do not claim to have all the answers and any good atheist is willing to change their mind when the appropriate evidence dictates that they should. They are the opposite of rigid. If God spelled out my name in the stars one night and they also said "I am real, believe in me," that would probably be enough to make me change my mind. What would it take for a religious person to change theirs?
23
"Let the scientist continue their debate why that is. "
Ignorance is indeed, Bliss?
Ignorance is indeed, Bliss?
4
Um, sorry. The atheists are doing fine. It says a lot that you take such apparent pleasure in the belief that they are miserable though. Very Christian of you.
15
People have grown tired of Republican rhetoric that seeks to subvert the word of God by claiming their agenda is righteous or in line with "Christ". It's gotten beyond tiresome at this point, and to make it any clearer that people do not want others confusing them with Republican policies. Nor by their lack of affiliation do they want to be seen as LIberal. People have more complicated beliefs and they don't necessary fall in line with either parties values. As people become more educated or have to challenge their understanding of things like abortion, taxes, etc. they tend to realize they can allow "facts" to dictate their positions instead of their "feelings". As conservatives have become more conservative and try to "out conservative" each other playing to elderly voters, their message rings hollow with younger voters that can not stand so firmly on difficult questions that they don't fully comprehend yet. At least they are humble enough to understand that they need more knowledge, and not less (Fox News) about how to approach these thorny issues.
21
"As people have become more educated", - operative word, here. That is exactly where the dumbing down in education, be it controversy about science/religion, or lack of funding/paying teachers comes in to their agenda to keep the youth from thinking for themselves. Media does not help. Until we fully fund democratic education, equal for all, (not just those who can afford Charter Schools), the Republicans have a fast track to brainwashing the disadvantaged by way of political "education" .
10
Thanks to John
He is absolutely on the mark! His observations about the media are crucial in understanding this issue. The more often the media mis-represents any faith, the more likely it is that the listeners/and/or readers will begin to believe what they hear and see. Constant repetition of falsehood gradually morphs into a tad of truth and grows from there. Two clear historical examples of this phenomenon include the rise of Nazi-ism, the growth and acceptance of apartheid.
He is absolutely on the mark! His observations about the media are crucial in understanding this issue. The more often the media mis-represents any faith, the more likely it is that the listeners/and/or readers will begin to believe what they hear and see. Constant repetition of falsehood gradually morphs into a tad of truth and grows from there. Two clear historical examples of this phenomenon include the rise of Nazi-ism, the growth and acceptance of apartheid.
1
Lets hope that we are seeing the beginning of the end of religion's influence or so called religious leaders influence in the affairs of the world. The evil done in the name of religion is incalculable. It's all about telling other people how to live and what to believe. It's success in getting people to believe in the impossible and fantasy is impressive even if the majority are illiterate or uneducated.
"Good people do good things; evil people do evil thing; it takes religion to make good people do evil things"
"Good people do good things; evil people do evil thing; it takes religion to make good people do evil things"
28
"Good people do good things; evil people do evil thing; it takes religion to make good people do evil things"
No. It takes dogma. Neither Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol pot were religious. Yet they are the mass murderers of the modern era. People followed them because they mindlessly bought into their dogma.
It's dogmatism that's so dangerous. Some religious followers are dogmatic. Others, not so. Some non religious people are dogmatic. Others, not so.
No. It takes dogma. Neither Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol pot were religious. Yet they are the mass murderers of the modern era. People followed them because they mindlessly bought into their dogma.
It's dogmatism that's so dangerous. Some religious followers are dogmatic. Others, not so. Some non religious people are dogmatic. Others, not so.
I'm one of the 5 million. I grew up in a Christian church that was about love and community and tolerance, not about grabbing power or coercing others. The Republican Christian Right has turned that great religion into something I do not recognize and cannot be associated with. When you see it become a religion of selfishness and money, a grotesque celebration of ignorance, it erodes one's core belief as well. The New Testament is a wonderful thing but it has nothing in common with this nasty religion that has infected America.
37
I agree
1
If you look at the history of Christian religious oppression, beginning with Christians' persecution of their own dissenters (dubbed 'heretics'), I think you'll find that the nastiness has been there from the beginning.
There is no such thing as a "great religion".
There is no such thing as a "great religion".
2
Belief in myth, no matter how strong and deeply ingrained the system of societal endoctrination is, will almost always eventually give way to rational thought, even if it takes centuries. The trends of this study offer further evidence that America is finally on its way out of the tunnel of blind religious faith, which is an exalted (and often cherished) form of myth.
14
What I would really like Pew to examine is how many of the nones and undeclaired are now Neo-pagans and how that plays out in politics. I know many Asatru tend to be conservative, where as Wicca tends to be libral. I love to see Hellimos, Voodoo, Druidry, and so many of the other polytheistic faiths being examined. All accounts are that the numbers are growing in the US but seem to not get much study.
2
Missing here is the place that religion occupies in the human mind. Religion has always been about explanations of the unknown. Human's have a hard time with the unknown, so they make things up. Over time, these myths become codified into cultural beliefs, what we call religion. As more of the unknown world becomes known to us, the influence of the myth makers is reduced. All of this can be traced back to the pre-Socratic and Socratic philosophers who were willing to question the old myths and start the age of inquiry which continues to this day.
29
The meaning of life will always remain unknown.
My rejection of my parent's faith -- like my ancestors that rejected catholicism to become Protestant -- has always been an intellectual decision. The lack of proof troubled me from the time I was fifteen. But, the real undoing of all religions comes from morality. Historical inaccuracy is tough to prove, but blatant immorality is. All religions are ethnocentric and therefore immoral. All religions with a concept of hell are abhorrent because, while they may preach forgiveness and tolerance in life, they assume that those who basely disagree about the origins of God spend eternity suffering, a fate worse than any concentration camp because even death is not an escape.
If I have retained any faith in God it is this. I have faith that if God exists, God is just. Therefore, there cannot be a genocidal, ethnocentric hell, and any intellectual disagreement I have with the texts that exist will be understood. But, that is assuming God is just, and I certainly can't say that there is any evidence to suggest anything about God's nature other than detachment. So, that is entirely a faith choice so that I can see the world as I choose. And, that's ultimately the point of religious faith anyway so I must be doing it right.
If I have retained any faith in God it is this. I have faith that if God exists, God is just. Therefore, there cannot be a genocidal, ethnocentric hell, and any intellectual disagreement I have with the texts that exist will be understood. But, that is assuming God is just, and I certainly can't say that there is any evidence to suggest anything about God's nature other than detachment. So, that is entirely a faith choice so that I can see the world as I choose. And, that's ultimately the point of religious faith anyway so I must be doing it right.
14
As far as I can tell, many of the (loudest) self-proclaimed "Christians" sound pre-Christian to me. They sound pretty Old Testament - all fire and brimstone and punishment and judgment, completely disregarding the teachings of the Christ they SAY they follow: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the afflicted, heal the sick, and love one another. Not seeing much of that.
54
Christ also told the adulteress to cease her sin, commended the centurion for acknowledging his own sinful behavior, and spoke frequently about those who lost the word of God and be thrown into the darkness where there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth. He spoke of the foolish slave who was cast out from his master's house for being imprudent with the money he was given oversight of, and so on.
Why don't we hear much of that from you?
Why don't we hear much of that from you?
Churches drive us away. I am glad to see a slight drop in evangelicals, whose conservatism I see as a threat to others' freedom of and from religion.
Catholicism left me with the turn to the Right under John Paul II. I am happily Unitarian-universalist now: no loser in the basement called Satan to blame evil upon, no angry God who casts some of us out to suffer eternally. Jesus? A wise Neo-Platonist rabbi murdered in a political struggle, a great man of love. Nothing more, none of the "no one comes to the Father save through me." That sort of thinking needs to vanish from the Earth. It is what brought us Holy War, Inquisition, and ISIS. No God who could permit Hell to exist is worth worshipping.
Catholicism left me with the turn to the Right under John Paul II. I am happily Unitarian-universalist now: no loser in the basement called Satan to blame evil upon, no angry God who casts some of us out to suffer eternally. Jesus? A wise Neo-Platonist rabbi murdered in a political struggle, a great man of love. Nothing more, none of the "no one comes to the Father save through me." That sort of thinking needs to vanish from the Earth. It is what brought us Holy War, Inquisition, and ISIS. No God who could permit Hell to exist is worth worshipping.
46
When Christian has become synonymous with narrow-minded, ignorant, bigoted, anti-science and stupid, why would people want to identify with it?
94
You know the answer: people are largely born into their religion; indoctrinated by their parents. The majority then spend the rest of their life defending their "innate" beliefs.
4
"Christian" is only synonymous with narrow-minded, ignorant, bigoted, anti-science and stupid among people who are themselves ignorant.
This comes from a Jew who who left NYC decades ago and actually knows many Christians.
This comes from a Jew who who left NYC decades ago and actually knows many Christians.
I find that Christianity is better served as an philosophy, instead of religious belief; that is the golden rule. Belief in a deity brings forth an "eternal" tendency to interpret its intentions through one's own desires and needs. The Middle East id the latest instance of political and power goals that are based in religious texts and interpretations that are wrapped in the worst form of primitive blood lust. History speaks volumes about this tendency; An example is in Alexandra in the 300 A D era; Christians were killing each other over dogma.
I guess my own weaknesses have made me believe that everything just IS, without a reason. The universe is eternal in itself. Reasons why and creation are human concepts. no more no less. It also all too human to preform badly in the name of a god.
I guess my own weaknesses have made me believe that everything just IS, without a reason. The universe is eternal in itself. Reasons why and creation are human concepts. no more no less. It also all too human to preform badly in the name of a god.
7
Considering the war on Christians by the humanists in America, if asked these questions I wouldn't divulge any beliefs I held.
After reading many of these comments - is it any wonder why?
After reading many of these comments - is it any wonder why?
2
What war? That description is to acknowledge the radical right-wingnuts, Tea Party supporters, evangelicals and fundamentalists fears. There is nothing in the PEW surveys to indicate that changes in belief are the result of a "war." As an existential humanist and born-again atheist, I came to realization that I could no longer believe as a process---of questioning, growing older and more skeptical, exposure to the larger world through travel---and that process led me to dispense with those "childish things" that Paul put away when he became a man. I am happier to have resolved my internal conflict. If there is any "war" out there it is the recent battle created by drastic social change where believers want laws to erase those changes and force each of us to believe as they do. It's gone beyond the proselytizing of a Mormon missionary or a tent revival preacher to governors and attorneys general claiming their god is better than your god. And that has become blatantly overt and dangerous in a country founded on the separation of church and state.
38
I have been fully atheist for over a quarter of a century, and fully questioning for the full quarter century before that and before that a puzzled little girl for 17 more years. That's 67 years of open honesty. You should give it a try.
22
Dear Kansas –
With all due respect to the fear is that you hold, what is it exactly that you consider to be a threat to your religious beliefs or to your person?
With all due respect to the fear is that you hold, what is it exactly that you consider to be a threat to your religious beliefs or to your person?
6
I'm reading so many comments that describe Christianity in terms of Republican politics, hate, bigotry, and ignorance, and contempt for the poor. They’re not wrong, but I think these commenters are missing a key takeaway from the survey: Evangelical Christianity, the cultural and political touchpoint for Christian intolerance, has seen a relatively small drop in affiliates. But mainline Protestants and Catholics—who more often espouse values of compassion, inclusion, diversity, social justice, and love—are seeing a greater percentage of members leaving their ranks. Or maybe it’s interesting to me because I’m one of them. At 31 (an older Millennial), I’ve concluded that although I cherish the values of my mainline Protestant faith, my belief in most things doctrinal and supernatural has waned to the point where a traditional Christian theology no longer coheres. (It was getting pretty stretchy in those last five or six years anyway). I have such tender feelings for my religious upbringing and my church community and am not sure what to call myself anymore. A sequence of labels like “cultural Christian / agnostic / universalist” seem to fit my worldview better than “none.”
19
Having moved to the bible belt, I have to fend off invitations to join this or that church all the time. If they are persistent I tell them that I can't be around people so dumb they actually believe what they hear in church or those who feign believe and probably can't be trusted not to lie about other important thing.
27
I DO believe that most people have a belief system that includes a Supreme Being, whatever label you want to attach to it. However, I believe that there is a vast difference between believing in a Supreme Being or the Cosmos or whatever AND going to church. I believe that the people who have left the "church" are fed up with institutional religion as opposed to personal religion. They are fed up with the person standing in front of the congregation and telling people WHAT to believe, including who to vote for and what side of various social issues they should take. People are thinking more independently and for themselves rather than following the dictates of one person who "ministers" to them. Abrahamic religions, especially Christianity, tell people what they should believe, not why.
12
Religion DOES NOT explain why bad things happen to good people. Saying it's "God's Will," is not enough. Institutional religion doesn't give real answers, it demands faith and that's enough. I know of too many situations where people who were very close to me suffered losses to their loved ones, especially one teenager whose younger sister was struck by a hit and run driver, spun and had her head go through a windshield. The girl was 12 and was walking with a friend on a road. The person who was his coach and minister said, "It was God's Will. That's what you need to know." It wasn't enough and he left all institutional religion. The answer, quite rightly, was not enough.
26
You can't fool all the people all the time. Two thousand years is a good run. Five hundred since the printing press, but maybe not even 50 post the internet. Knowledge is a dangerous thing for a franchise built on superstition, guilt and fear.
33
Does this mean that in the next 10 years we will be spared the ubiquitous "God bless America" at the end of every political speech? Does it mean that we'll stop having Christian morality pushed at us like it's the only way to be in America? I'm so tired of the political hypocrisy on abortion, health care, the safety net in America, and the laughable idea that we are a Judeo Christian nation when we are really a capitalist nation that doesn't care about anything but making money and stiffing those who aren't rich. We do have a god in America and it's money. The religion is Rich and the biggest commandment of all is to get rich at any cost.
72
Hm, you are assuming that God is only the Judeo-Christian version. There are others. No objection to "God" per se, only the people who claim to speak for him/her, especially when they are spouting hate.
7
This is awesome! And just going through all the comments just proves it, change is coming slowly but surely and i'm stoked!
30
Amen!
12
Most people in the US were born into and indoctrinated into the religion that they identify with. And historically most people were forced into their religion materialistically and continue out of fear and a need to belong or please others.
14
True. We are all born atheist, we know nothing about religion until we are taught it. Some of us got lucky on what we were taught. Some of us weren't so lucky and must strive to overcome a toxic mix of religion, bigotry, hatred, racism and misogyny. Very sad, very cruel.
5
I suppose there will always be people who find that it helps them get through life by putting their faith in the supernatural. But most will eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn't make any sense, and is not really that helpful.
14
"atheists and agnostics, whose tallies nearly doubled to 7 percent of adults."
And yet they seem to make up 97 percent of the comments here. Just another reminder of how of touch the average NYT liberal is with the rest of America.
And yet they seem to make up 97 percent of the comments here. Just another reminder of how of touch the average NYT liberal is with the rest of America.
3
Atheist here. That 7% was corrected in the footnote 'correction' to be 8%. And I'm a progressive, not a liberal. But you are correct (though not, I think, on the '97%) that the comments are largely from the 25%ers. However, I suspect that those numbers would be reversed if this was on the "Watchtower" comment feed. It's not. Context matters.
No, the average NYT reader only too well understands the rest of America, and is concerned with if not fearful about where Red America is heading. The average NYT reader also is well-read, demonstrates progressive thinking and a strong educational background, and has mature critical thinking skills.
Btw, If you were to do some research, you would learn that it was Newt Gingrich who made "liberal" a dirty word:
From liberalamerica.org:
"In 1996, then Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, created two lists, one list of warm, fuzzy, patriotic words that Republicans should always use when speaking about themselves and of fellow Republicans. A list was also created of dark, scary anti-American sounding words to be used and repeated whenever Republicans were to speak about Democrats or anyone else not on the side of Republicans.
Mr. Gingrich described the pro Republican list as optimistic and positive words which included family, freedom, liberty, prosperity, rights, and respect. Listen to any Republican today and this is what you will hear. The list of the contrasting words to be used when talking about Democrats included betray, corrupt, destroy, failure, intolerant, liberal, lie, steal, and the most hated, taxes. Listen to any Republican today and this is what you will also hear."
But then, he is a Christian.
Interestingly, as the one-time leader iof the Family Values party in the House, he was allowed to convert to Catholicism despite his miltiple divorces.
Btw, If you were to do some research, you would learn that it was Newt Gingrich who made "liberal" a dirty word:
From liberalamerica.org:
"In 1996, then Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, created two lists, one list of warm, fuzzy, patriotic words that Republicans should always use when speaking about themselves and of fellow Republicans. A list was also created of dark, scary anti-American sounding words to be used and repeated whenever Republicans were to speak about Democrats or anyone else not on the side of Republicans.
Mr. Gingrich described the pro Republican list as optimistic and positive words which included family, freedom, liberty, prosperity, rights, and respect. Listen to any Republican today and this is what you will hear. The list of the contrasting words to be used when talking about Democrats included betray, corrupt, destroy, failure, intolerant, liberal, lie, steal, and the most hated, taxes. Listen to any Republican today and this is what you will also hear."
But then, he is a Christian.
Interestingly, as the one-time leader iof the Family Values party in the House, he was allowed to convert to Catholicism despite his miltiple divorces.
5
The cultural advantage of labeling oneself a Christian is gone and I think the Church is stronger for it. Jesus often raised the bar for those who claimed to follow him; he was not interested in amassing numbers, but having authentic, dedicated followers.
By the way, anyone talking about the "decline" of the Church in the West should also highlight the explosion of the Church in Asia and Africa.
By the way, anyone talking about the "decline" of the Church in the West should also highlight the explosion of the Church in Asia and Africa.
3
No real drop in religiousness, just a drop in those who have to SAY they are Christian. In the past, they would be subject to outrage at the very possibility that other religions can exist in these United States. We're no longer afraid to tell the truth, or shamed into going along with the crowd.
7
tell that one to any political candidate - Left or Right, they better claim to be believers.
1
I love many of the teachings of Jesus, but I consider myself unaffiliated because I don't believe he was the son of God in the sense that a religious person does.
I do think Jesus would have strong things to say about the people today who claim the most vociferously that they are Christian, and use Jesus as an excuse to cling to massive amounts of wealth, hold the poor in contempt ("they are just lazy"), and sit in judgment on others. It's funny how human nature never changes. Wealthy people who cast stones at others today are very similar to those in Jesus's day. That they claim to follow Jesus is the ultimate irony.
I do think Jesus would have strong things to say about the people today who claim the most vociferously that they are Christian, and use Jesus as an excuse to cling to massive amounts of wealth, hold the poor in contempt ("they are just lazy"), and sit in judgment on others. It's funny how human nature never changes. Wealthy people who cast stones at others today are very similar to those in Jesus's day. That they claim to follow Jesus is the ultimate irony.
20
No religious people = no religious wars - Win-Win!!
16
How refreshing to read good news!
Certainly no one is surprised that forward looking people are disenchanted with backward looking, so-called religions.
Certainly no one is surprised that forward looking people are disenchanted with backward looking, so-called religions.
14
Thank goodness the country is starting to get is. Organized religion is one of the worst scourges of this world. You can love one another and do good deeds for the sake of one another, not some "god". All religion does is breed hate for the sake of not believing the same things. If you believe in god, fine go ahead. Don't you dare judge anyone for their lack of belief or "faith" in your god.
17
I think the number of "nones" would be higher except that (a) people who publicly quit the religion of their families and communities face negative reactions from those families and communities and (b) Christianity in particular coerces its "believers" into believing or, at least, saying they believe: If you don't believe, Christianity teaches, you will be punished and tormented for eternity. Since I was a young girl, I have wondered about devout Christians who claim to love God but also say God is capable of such cruelty.
http://fewbricksshy.blogspot.com/
http://fewbricksshy.blogspot.com/
14
I saw a CNN documentary recently. I was surprised to learn that many "nones" choose stay in closet to avoid negative reactions.
4
A devout Christian kid and teenager, I divorced myself from the Christian structure when I discovered I was gay in college. I knew I was not a "sinner" and that I don't even believe in that concept of sin and Jesus coming to die for our sins. Then I found that mainline Christian churches did not stand up against Religious Right bigots who used a big stick in politics to declare what and what is not Christian. Now I have a knee-jerk reaction against even someone saying "I am a Christian," because it seems to me they are announcing by code word that they are the saved ones, the true believers against abortion, gay rights, minorities, anything that does not promote the status quo of white patriarchal America. Because of course my elderly mother and authentic Christians from bygone years would be hurt by my proclaiming such things consistently, I honor the Christianity of my youth, other authentic Christians with open hearts and minds, and I am in no way surprised by the decline of 21st Century people of any age not wanting to be categorized by a term which includes all manner of intolerance and biogtry, even if they believe in God and seek community.
25
Fascinating article. However, I must say that some of the rants against Christians are striking. The left has usually held itself out as champions of tolerance except when it comes to people of Christian faith. Why is that? To many on the left, Christians are backwards-thinking, brain-washed, idiotic, stupid, etc... In fact, I would argue that the lack of tolerance from the left towards people who profess a sincere belief in Jesus Christ is just as bad if not worse than the far right's intolerance towards many of the left's liberal views. Tolerance is a two way street, my friends, but the left only seems to advocate for it when it is directly related to one of its core issues.
12
What you call the left Nicholas, has been the object of the utmost vilification from religious Republicans for many years in the states. Surprise, surprise, some of them are not too happy about it. Ya get what ya give.
18
Why are we supposed to accommodate backwards-thinking, brain-washed, idiotic and stupid people? Of course we're hostile to the religicoes as the Huckster Huckabee and Lube Job Santorum give us the willies.
18
I think most people make a distinction between fundamentalists who are culturally Christian and the conversion of others is necessary for them to function, and those who are Christian as their spiritual practice. There is a huge difference.
Fundamentalism is by its nature an intolerant stance and probably attracts exactly that back from people. A belief system that one must accept whole or not at all is not something a lot of people even consider on the face of it. You are lumping all people who don't agree with fundamentalism as anti-Christian. Not true.
Fundamentalism is by its nature an intolerant stance and probably attracts exactly that back from people. A belief system that one must accept whole or not at all is not something a lot of people even consider on the face of it. You are lumping all people who don't agree with fundamentalism as anti-Christian. Not true.
15
This article made me think about the governor of Oklahoma. She and her advisors spend a lot of time thinking up new ways to kill inmates. And she always has this big cross stuck right in the middle of her throat while she's thinking up ways to kill people. When she had a press conference to announce that Oklahoma would use nitrous oxide to kill inmates, she wore a huge cross front and center. When she announced that, despite the fact Oklahoma has more earthquakes than California, cities cannot ban fracking inside their city limits, she wore that same over-sized cross like a billboard. Is it any wonder that people doubt religion when their politicians pretend to be Christians while they think of ways to hurt and kill people?
60
I'm active in my Christian church, attend almost weekly, teach Sunday school and am the church's treasurer. And these survey results don't surprise me in the least. In many ways the results make my case for me.
For some time I've badgered anyone who will listen in our congregation, including the pastor, that we have no message. Yes, we do our thing every Sunday within the church's walls, but so what? How are we relevant to the larger world?
On gay marriage. Silent (though most in our congregation approve). On climate change. Silent (though some in our congregation have meteorology and other science degrees). On issues like Baltimore. Oh, something gets passed around from Baltimore detailing what they need, but nothing gets organized. We effectively express our sympathy, then go, you guessed it, silent.
And on it goes. No message that benefits anyone OUTSIDE the church.
Unlike some churches, we're not interested in telling you for whom to vote, though we should be interested in making sure people vote (silent on that as well). We are not a political/business organization masquerading as a church. But there has to be more than just gathering every Sunday and then going home until the next Sunday.
It's long occurred to me that we're not relevant because we're not relevant.
For some time I've badgered anyone who will listen in our congregation, including the pastor, that we have no message. Yes, we do our thing every Sunday within the church's walls, but so what? How are we relevant to the larger world?
On gay marriage. Silent (though most in our congregation approve). On climate change. Silent (though some in our congregation have meteorology and other science degrees). On issues like Baltimore. Oh, something gets passed around from Baltimore detailing what they need, but nothing gets organized. We effectively express our sympathy, then go, you guessed it, silent.
And on it goes. No message that benefits anyone OUTSIDE the church.
Unlike some churches, we're not interested in telling you for whom to vote, though we should be interested in making sure people vote (silent on that as well). We are not a political/business organization masquerading as a church. But there has to be more than just gathering every Sunday and then going home until the next Sunday.
It's long occurred to me that we're not relevant because we're not relevant.
41
Focus your energy outward and become relevant. Help feed the hungry, teach people to read, raise money for charities. The list of ways churches can help their communities is endless. Such congregations exist -- find one, or help your congregation become one.
1
I find this encouraging. So why do politicians ignore this reality?
16
Now we have the 3 monotheistic religions and Environmentalism as the religions of choice.
3
Take this from one who has seen the conservative right Christian church from the inside out. Mixing politics with the tenants of Christianity stinks. These folks spend a lot of time and energy finding reasons to excommunicate one another over petty issues that reflect simple hatred and discrimination of those who look and think "different".
Hook this into mainstream politics and you have a picture perfect image of bigotry and ignorance that does not wear well and is increasing viewed with distain by our young folk.
Let me refer you to Acts 2:45 "And sold their possessions and goods, and distributed them to all men, as every man had need." Or the prelude of Acts 4:34 "that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales." Sounds socialistic right?
Matthew 19:21--Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
These imposter Christians who scream "there are no free lunches" are really and truly lovers of mammon who worship wealth and political power over others. They have yet to put on the spirit of Christ and they do not follow him. They are modern Pharisees who would stone Jesus if he showed up in their temple.
Don't think for one minute that there is a superior elite of Christians who would EVER be caught dead or alive amongst the likes of Mr. Huckabee or Mr. Jindal.
Hook this into mainstream politics and you have a picture perfect image of bigotry and ignorance that does not wear well and is increasing viewed with distain by our young folk.
Let me refer you to Acts 2:45 "And sold their possessions and goods, and distributed them to all men, as every man had need." Or the prelude of Acts 4:34 "that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales." Sounds socialistic right?
Matthew 19:21--Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
These imposter Christians who scream "there are no free lunches" are really and truly lovers of mammon who worship wealth and political power over others. They have yet to put on the spirit of Christ and they do not follow him. They are modern Pharisees who would stone Jesus if he showed up in their temple.
Don't think for one minute that there is a superior elite of Christians who would EVER be caught dead or alive amongst the likes of Mr. Huckabee or Mr. Jindal.
41
It is always good news to find fewer people in the thrall of a mythology-based belief system. But, most, at least in the US, are harmless and do not impose their views and outlook on others. Those who seek to behead women and gays and all others not of their sect are a different matter however; we cannot say their name, of course, because that would be politically incorrect (says the Administration).
4
A good trend. Now if we can only get the evangelicals down to 0.
31
Does Christianity promote morality?
Pew Research Center surveys conducted in 2007 and 2014 showed that during that time interval the Christian portion of the US population fell from 78.4% to 70.6%, while the "Unaffiliated" portion rose from 16.1% to 22.8%.
Over a similar time interval (2007 to 2012 ... the last year for which data are available) the Uniform Crime Reporting System shows that the violent crime rate (that is, number of crimes per 100,000 people) in the US dropped from 471.8 to 386.9.
http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm
You can draw your own conclusions.
Pew Research Center surveys conducted in 2007 and 2014 showed that during that time interval the Christian portion of the US population fell from 78.4% to 70.6%, while the "Unaffiliated" portion rose from 16.1% to 22.8%.
Over a similar time interval (2007 to 2012 ... the last year for which data are available) the Uniform Crime Reporting System shows that the violent crime rate (that is, number of crimes per 100,000 people) in the US dropped from 471.8 to 386.9.
http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm
You can draw your own conclusions.
8
Plus the earth has warmed... However, Correlation is NOT causation!
I suspect one of the biggest reasons Americans are abandoning Christianity is, as Nate Cohn says in so many words at the end of this piece, because the GOP has co-opted Christianity, exploited it for political gain and demeaned it. If I were Christian I would be very upset with the GOP for turning my religious beliefs into something dirty and polarizing. Abandoning Christianity in America today is abandoning anti-Christian Republican party politics.
43
It is worth pointing out that Western and Northern Europe is already mostly agnostic or "nones" in practice. Churches closing for lack of attendance, etc. The trends will continue in much of the West with the USA lagging behind a bit.
17
The Greeks and the Egyptians thought their gods were for real and built their cultures around them. Now we look back at those civilizations and classify their beliefs as "myths."
Why would we be any different in the eyes of future generations?
Why would we be any different in the eyes of future generations?
20
I recently drove past a church near my home whose front sign read "No God, no peace." My immediate though was that these folks have it all wrong. As religion is so often practiced around the world (and certainly here in the US), it should have read "No god, no war." Then my mind quickly moved on to thoughts of religion-based bias, bigotry, intolerance and repression. It's little wonder (to me, at least) that I turned my back on the entire unpleasant enterprise decades ago.
29
As a pastor of a city-center, evangelical church, these numbers neither dismay nor discourage me. In fact, there is a silver lining in all of this: for too long, Christianity has been "cultural Christianity" ("well, I'm not an atheist or belong to any of those other world religions so I must be a Christian"). Europe is already there and America is not far behind. A day is soon coming when publicly identifying your self as a follower of Jesus will mean something and require what could be an unpopular commitment in an increasingly irreligious culture.
9
I slipped the surly bonds of religion back in the late 1990s at the same time that I figured out I was not a Republican....never really was, thank you Ken Starr.
Facing middle age caused me to reexamine, actually examine beliefs I had held since birth due to the influence of my parents. Mom was a Baptist, so I thought I was a Baptist. Both parents were Republicans, so I thought I was a Republican.....one of those liberal Republicans like don't exist anymore.
It's very good to take some quiet time for at least a week & think about who you are vs who you think you are. I really don't think this country is as religious, rightwing or mean as we think...though right now I don't know how Americans could be meaner to people who don't look & act exactly like them.
My kids are in their 20s & remembering my childhood of being scared to death by grown people wanting me to confess my sins & come to Jesus....especially the part about burning in Hell forever & never seeing my Christian Mother ever again.....the burning didn't bother 8 year old me, but never seeing Mom again.....I would've performed sex acts or killed people to prevent separation from my mother!
But because of all that my wife & I decided we would raise our kids without religion & without parental hate lessons about other races, or sexual orientation & so on. It worked! My kid's generation reject religious hocus-pocus & they do not hate & they do not meddle!
I hope to live 20 years to watch them take over!
Facing middle age caused me to reexamine, actually examine beliefs I had held since birth due to the influence of my parents. Mom was a Baptist, so I thought I was a Baptist. Both parents were Republicans, so I thought I was a Republican.....one of those liberal Republicans like don't exist anymore.
It's very good to take some quiet time for at least a week & think about who you are vs who you think you are. I really don't think this country is as religious, rightwing or mean as we think...though right now I don't know how Americans could be meaner to people who don't look & act exactly like them.
My kids are in their 20s & remembering my childhood of being scared to death by grown people wanting me to confess my sins & come to Jesus....especially the part about burning in Hell forever & never seeing my Christian Mother ever again.....the burning didn't bother 8 year old me, but never seeing Mom again.....I would've performed sex acts or killed people to prevent separation from my mother!
But because of all that my wife & I decided we would raise our kids without religion & without parental hate lessons about other races, or sexual orientation & so on. It worked! My kid's generation reject religious hocus-pocus & they do not hate & they do not meddle!
I hope to live 20 years to watch them take over!
80
I'd just like to point out that religion and "hate lessons" don't necessarily go hand in hand. I'm 27 and was raised in a Catholic household — a fact that's relevant since Catholics tend to get lambasted for being so conservative. My parents took me to Mass every week and sent me to Catholic schools from kindergarten through high school. They never, ever made any negative comments about any other race, religion, or sexual orientation, and every school I went to was the same way, emphasizing the ACTUAL meaning of Christianity — caring for your neighbor regardless of anything. (Which, incidentally, makes it all the more unpleasant when people use their Christian faith as a basis of hating others, because that is just so opposite of what was the original point of Christianity.) As said, I'm now 27. I still consider myself Christian. At the same time, I don't hate and don't meddle. Those ideas aren't exclusive of each other.
2
You can try, but that is how my parents raised their kids and as adults we all became devout followers of what others would view as conservative faiths, Catholicism and Baha'i. As Carly points out, Catholicism teaches (if you take care to listen and learn) that our lives should be given over to God in the way that we deal with the world, that we should continually strive to the ideal of caring for the other (your neighbor) as the other, and yes, that includes fetuses, LGBT, poor single mothers, the homeless, those dealing with physical and mental challengers, and even convicted felons. We can't all be God's children deserving of respect simply by our existence without God. Thanks to Pope Francis for exemplifying this so well. We need more people who live to this ideal, not fewer.
I think this is a good thing, but the question then becomes what do we put our beliefs in? As writer David Foster Wallace said, "In the day-to day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship." So if you don't worship a God, what takes its place ; nihilism, consumerism, humanism? I think for a lot of people, wanting to believe takes the place of actually believing. I think the numbers of non-believers are higher than the data says in reality. It can be lonely to think for yourself, but tremendously freeing.
15
I love your comment but Wallace successfully committed suicide so take the things he says about the real meaning of life with a grain of salt. He might simply be wrong about those topics.
1
I'd suggest that you put your belief in what Jesus said. There's nothing wrong with it that I can see - and I'm an atheist. It's belief in the principles without the witchery. There are many fine principles espoused by religious leaders. It's when the power-hungry get their hands on those principles, be they priest or politician, that things turn nasty.
2
One of the reasons for the drop is that more people are coming out as non-believers. It's always been difficult in this country to admit to that, and I've had some unbelievable comments about my morality and lifestyle when I came out as a non-believer.
30
Good news! Maybe soon, our politicians will stop their sycophantic behavior towards everything religious. That would truly be a blessing.
35
Fascinating comments. Should one replace "Muslim" with "Christianity" in the Pew findings, and therefore in the comments to the article (ie, Muslim faith followers declined 10% over a lime period), the vitriol being spewed herein would be welcomed in a WSJ or the like conservative paper. Tolerance is all based on one's perspective, I guess.
7
I haven't noticed any Muslims trying to inject their faith into U.S. public policy.
There is a strong trend here, as usual in such discussions, to insist that we can have spirituality without religion. It's also okay to ditch this tiresome piety as well. It's okay to not even be spiritual.
17
Spirituality is just another way to embrace religious superstitions with a less definitive view of the exact form of a supernatural sky fairy. Once we learn to appreciate the wonder of the universe for what it really is and stop giving all the credit to a supernatural being that doesn’t exist, the enlightenment can be an awesome thing.
1
I read the New York Times more often than I read the Bible, yet it has no chance to become my bible. I visit a Buddhist temple more often than my local parish, but I still consider myself a Christian. I don't know where I would fit in this survey because the questions rarely allow for a straightforward answer and I meet many non-believers whose beliefs are more biased than my own.
5
For me personally, the starting of the War in Iraq, cheered on by the American Religious Right, was the last nail in the coffin for me for formal religion. Unnecessary war is murder and directly opposed to what Jesus taught. At that point, I decided to accept myself as an agnostic Humanist & joined the American Humanist Association. Not a day, not an hour, has gone by since then when I've doubted that decision.
33
3 out of 4 still consider themselves religionists. We are not yet out of the dark ages.
29
I wonder how many of the unaffiliated are Christian by faith, however don't regularly attend church services because to me the chart more represents church affiliation vs. faith.
The aspect that jumps out at me in this article are the figures for the Evangelical Protestant churches and why they have the largest percentages. To me a key factor seems that when you dig below the surface, the sermons and music really cater to the individual and what's in it for them; whether it's a new house, job, money, improved health or better relationships. Also, there's the image of a metaphoric whiteboard that lists the names of the parishioners and their respective scores - married (+)100, virgin on wedding night (+)1500, divorced (-) 700, smoke/drink (-) 200, gay/lesbian (-) 2000. For those who score high, an evangelical church can be an enriching experience.
Unfortunately for those who don't score high, it can give Christianity a bad connotation. I do know there are good Christians and moderate and even progressive churches out there.
The aspect that jumps out at me in this article are the figures for the Evangelical Protestant churches and why they have the largest percentages. To me a key factor seems that when you dig below the surface, the sermons and music really cater to the individual and what's in it for them; whether it's a new house, job, money, improved health or better relationships. Also, there's the image of a metaphoric whiteboard that lists the names of the parishioners and their respective scores - married (+)100, virgin on wedding night (+)1500, divorced (-) 700, smoke/drink (-) 200, gay/lesbian (-) 2000. For those who score high, an evangelical church can be an enriching experience.
Unfortunately for those who don't score high, it can give Christianity a bad connotation. I do know there are good Christians and moderate and even progressive churches out there.
3
Baptized in the Presbyterian Church, I saw at an early age the hypocrisy of adults who, while clothed in the cloak of Christianity behaved in anything but Christian. As I grew older, I also came to believe that Organized Religion is a bastion of Old White Men, attempting to rein in the flock and maintain the Paternalistic bent. That and a nice little method for controlling the masses. I think many people leave the Church for the reasons mentioned above. If you believe in God, or a Higher Power, or nothing at all, it's all good as long as you have certain moral standards in place. You don't need to attend Church to have that.
15
May 12, 2015
Most people in their deeper reflective spirit: that for come out of the Western European or other Asian traditions will default to the interior ancestral family history.
Modern educated peoples are now enjoying greater sharing of marriage traditions and that makes for evolving efforts learning and connecting to the – broader family trees.
In say a thousand years or less religious syncretism will guide new groups that enjoy commonality either exclusive or inclusive of local in time and place.
But the what we are people say often is our public response to expressing privacy to the nature of enjoying freedoms that make the question of religion in secular – consumer world that’s more reserved and as an earned right of living to guide with the liberty of the independent humanist spirit to honor the personal vital spirit we love – called our individuality – that for all times.
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
Most people in their deeper reflective spirit: that for come out of the Western European or other Asian traditions will default to the interior ancestral family history.
Modern educated peoples are now enjoying greater sharing of marriage traditions and that makes for evolving efforts learning and connecting to the – broader family trees.
In say a thousand years or less religious syncretism will guide new groups that enjoy commonality either exclusive or inclusive of local in time and place.
But the what we are people say often is our public response to expressing privacy to the nature of enjoying freedoms that make the question of religion in secular – consumer world that’s more reserved and as an earned right of living to guide with the liberty of the independent humanist spirit to honor the personal vital spirit we love – called our individuality – that for all times.
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
"Big Drop in Share of Americans Calling Themselves Christian"
Thank god.
Thank god.
17
This survey reflects my own experience. I would have identified as a Christian in 2007 and now identify as “unaffiliated” (to use the terminology of the survey). Some of my journey between 2007 and today would relate very little to other people, but much of it probably does. As has been repeatedly noted, the entanglement of Christianity with conservative Republicanism has been disheartening to say the very least. This was my nudge to the edge. My own intellectual curiosity and need to feel authentic in all aspects of my life took me over the edge. As I grew older (I am almost 55 now) it no longer was a priority to maintain views established in my upbringing. And – this may be confusing to some – I think I am more morally grounded today than I have ever been. That being said, I miss the social aspect of the “church”. Going to church, being surrounded by friends, singing songs that feel uplifting – these things can feel good, really good. So far, I haven’t really found a replacement for this – but it’s not worth trading what I believe (don’t believe) to get it back. Also…I would love to feel “talked to” by politicians, and am waiting for the day a prominent politician (e.g. a Presidential candidate) is brave enough to say he/she has chosen to say “I don’t know” when it comes to matters of salvation/eternal life/etc. Then, the floodgates may open for others to say the same…and go on to live rich, authentic, and even moral lives.
20
Good news: the share of the religiously unaffiliated in the US is rising. Dreadful news: the world's fastest growing religion is Islam.
16
Here is a question that should go in a poll. How many would like freedom from religion. Those that have beliefs are free to practise them, they are not entitled however, to insert their beliefs into the daily lives of others particularly in the realm of laws.
39
It's hard to take religion seriously when they spend most of their time fighting against gay-marriage and denying women their reproductive rights. Providing birth-control is somehow an attack on religious freedom. I go to Catholic mass every week with my wife, but we are remarried and not allowed to participate in communion. That is the Catholic church's prerogative. I go because my wife has been Catholic for over 50 years and I support her, but we refuse to spend $3,000 for two annulments. I see the beauty of the Catholic faith, but I am always an outsider. Our children have no interest because young people today do not blindly follow large institutions. We aren't able to pass on the faith that we received as children. Both catholic and evangelical are chasing adherents in South America, Asia and Africa.
20
That makes me so sad :( I'm fortunate to have found at a still fairly early age (27) a very progressive Catholic church whose focus is on social justice issues (poverty, hunger, dignity of work, etc.) more than anything else, and it's awesome. I got married back in November to a nondenominational Christian, and our guests included atheists, lifelong Catholics, former Catholics, agnostics, divorcees (both single and remarried), homosexuals, adherents of non-Christian religions — pretty much everything! And the priest made a point of saying, "Wherever you're at in your faith and life journey, you're welcome here and invited to participate in the Mass as much or as little as you choose." I hope you and your wife are able to find a Catholic church like that.
1
When I was growing up in North Texas, the Southern Baptists were meaner than all get out. When I was in elementary school, me and other kids who weren't Southern Baptists were constantly being told we were going to hell. They were the bullies of that era in Texas. They were especially hard on Catholic kids. A Baptist friend invited me to go to vacation Bible school with her. The guest speaker was a Southern Baptist missionary to Brazil. She spent the hour showing us slides of beautiful Catholic churches in South America while explaining why the congregants were going to hell. Growing up around this kind of behavior turned me off of organized religion forever.
18
Religion has no answers for the most ominous realities of our world: human decimation of ecosystems and wildlife, anthropogenic climate change. Religion feeds the worst examples of our horrible treatment of our fellow man: ongoing crime, slavery (still!), never-ending war and violence against those of different ethnicity or religious traditions, greed (that never stops), lack of compassion for the poor, the sick, the elderly, the confined, or children. Religion is anti-knowledge, anti-science, anti-progress, anti-individual, anti-freedom. We will all be better off as this illogical manifestation of humanity's desire for mythology wanes as a force in our culture.
15
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Maybe John Lennon's dream wasn't so fanciful after all.
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Maybe John Lennon's dream wasn't so fanciful after all.
25
Finally, some good news!
13
God Bless those Pagans.
8
Free religions of the worship of power, politics, money and the military and churches might get people back.
Add genuine respect for all life -- not just unborn infants but born-into-poverty adults, imprisoned adults, ill-fed children, women, girls, gay people, transgender, the poor, the jobless, the homeless, and oh yeah THE REST OF THE PLANET THAT WE ARE KILLING -- and churches might get people back.
Meanwhile, those of us who are genuinely concerned with ethics, kindness and care for our planet and all who live on it are doing just fine with no church in our lives to demand ever more money, unthinking obedience, and loyalty to corrupt leaders.
Add genuine respect for all life -- not just unborn infants but born-into-poverty adults, imprisoned adults, ill-fed children, women, girls, gay people, transgender, the poor, the jobless, the homeless, and oh yeah THE REST OF THE PLANET THAT WE ARE KILLING -- and churches might get people back.
Meanwhile, those of us who are genuinely concerned with ethics, kindness and care for our planet and all who live on it are doing just fine with no church in our lives to demand ever more money, unthinking obedience, and loyalty to corrupt leaders.
10
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca
28
Religions separate, and segregate, and exclude, and exaggerate differences.
Religion must be the ultimate fomenter of xenophobia - and war must be its
ultimate application - linking the two in a hellish wedding until death they impart.
Religion must be the ultimate fomenter of xenophobia - and war must be its
ultimate application - linking the two in a hellish wedding until death they impart.
8
I was born in Honolulu in 1941 and my catholic father had scheduled my christening at the local catholic church on December 7, 1941. The Japanese bombed that day and saved me from all that. Religion is a subject that belongs to comedy.
18
To start off, I'm a Bible-reader, believe in God, and attend religious meetings regularly. I think that the decline in persons self-identifying as Christians is due to three things.
First, in both high school and college, evolution is promoted as the only logical explanation for the origin of the universe. Anyone that thinks otherwise is seen as backward, misguided and unscientific.
Secondly, religious leaders and religious organizations have done a lot to lose the trust of their members because of their hypocrisy, preaching one thing and doing another, and their constant demands for money.
Finally, it is difficult to respect someone who claims to be Christian and cannot even explain their beliefs. Many do not understand what they believe and why. They just "believe" with no sense of logic or understanding and are willing to blindly follow what they have been taught, whether it makes sense or not.
When a thinking person is approached by someone like this and told to believe, this is a turn-off. A thinking person wants a logical explanation for why they should do something, and the argument must be convincing, with solid evidence.
A thorough examination of the Bible, it's theme, and the hope it provides for the future, would convince many that it is a source of true wisdom and is inspired of God, but unfortunately, due to the three things above, some have written off the Bible completely and all Christians with it.
First, in both high school and college, evolution is promoted as the only logical explanation for the origin of the universe. Anyone that thinks otherwise is seen as backward, misguided and unscientific.
Secondly, religious leaders and religious organizations have done a lot to lose the trust of their members because of their hypocrisy, preaching one thing and doing another, and their constant demands for money.
Finally, it is difficult to respect someone who claims to be Christian and cannot even explain their beliefs. Many do not understand what they believe and why. They just "believe" with no sense of logic or understanding and are willing to blindly follow what they have been taught, whether it makes sense or not.
When a thinking person is approached by someone like this and told to believe, this is a turn-off. A thinking person wants a logical explanation for why they should do something, and the argument must be convincing, with solid evidence.
A thorough examination of the Bible, it's theme, and the hope it provides for the future, would convince many that it is a source of true wisdom and is inspired of God, but unfortunately, due to the three things above, some have written off the Bible completely and all Christians with it.
4
Anyone who thinks that evolution is not the only logical explanation for the diversity of life IS unscientific. There is ample, overwhelming evidence that evolution underpins all life. The only evidence otherwise is a single book, written centuries ago before most modern scientific discoveries.
10
Evolution is not a matter of belief. It is reality. Those who doubt that it has occurred, and is still occurring, on this planet, and that it explains the diversity of life on Earth, are misguided fools. That sounds harsh, but no amount of religious piety can change what is real. Those of us who value the scientific method cannot possibly be expected to accept fairy tales as an equivalent mode of thinking.
10
Or maybe they are more educated in the broad sense than folks were not very long ago. There are many who believe that being a good person and doing good in the world, doesn't require belief in a god residing above the clouds who will be mad at you later if you don't..
4
This article sounds like it was wriiten by an atheist with an agenda. I still love Jesus.
4
That's great and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't try foist your faith on others.
5
You're allowed - just leave the rest of us out of it. I don't think that's a lot to ask.
2
This article should be required reading for every Republican in the presidential race. Not that it would make much difference though...since unfortunately many, if not most of them, either don't believe and accept facts when presented with them or are pretending that they don't believe and accept facts, which is ultimately more dishonest and hypocritical. They'll continue to pander to the minority, and will continue to wonder, decades from now, why a Republican just can't seem to get elected president anymore.
9
It's unfortunate that the great mystics of Christian faith were so under attack by the authoritarian Church of their times that few people today would even recognize their names. Someone like Meister Eckhart, who lived 800 years ago, described God in concepts that sound astonishingly modern today. Of course he was put on trial for heresy...
I'm not Christian--was born into another faith community whose dogma I reject though recognizing that the culture is indelibly etched in my bones--yet the words of Eckhart, and Teresa of Avila, among others, express in words I myself could not so beautifully formulate many of my own feelings about God and faith. It's too bad that such voices were drowned out by the small-minded, insular and viciously-prejudiced. Fortunately their words do endure in print, for anyone to discover as I did.
There's much more to "faith" than a blind attachment to ritual and dogma, and many people who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists, or apply no labels of any kind to themselves, are actually living true Christian lives. And that's the meaningful part...
I'm not Christian--was born into another faith community whose dogma I reject though recognizing that the culture is indelibly etched in my bones--yet the words of Eckhart, and Teresa of Avila, among others, express in words I myself could not so beautifully formulate many of my own feelings about God and faith. It's too bad that such voices were drowned out by the small-minded, insular and viciously-prejudiced. Fortunately their words do endure in print, for anyone to discover as I did.
There's much more to "faith" than a blind attachment to ritual and dogma, and many people who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists, or apply no labels of any kind to themselves, are actually living true Christian lives. And that's the meaningful part...
14
Finally some good news.
I was lucky. As a very young boy in hyper-religious Texas I looked around the church I was sitting in and realized with a chill that those around me actually thought someone was listening to their prayers. I told my mom that I'd never set foot in church again (fortunately she was ok with that). Of course, I've since visited as tourist many beautiful old churches which I look at as testament to religion's once-powerful ability to explain what was at the time unexplained. I'd like to think we've moved on from this.
I was lucky. As a very young boy in hyper-religious Texas I looked around the church I was sitting in and realized with a chill that those around me actually thought someone was listening to their prayers. I told my mom that I'd never set foot in church again (fortunately she was ok with that). Of course, I've since visited as tourist many beautiful old churches which I look at as testament to religion's once-powerful ability to explain what was at the time unexplained. I'd like to think we've moved on from this.
24
Probably somewhere in the 500+ comments is what I am thinking, so apologies for the reiteration. Just as the organized political parties are losing the faithful, so will organized religion as long as the institutional leaders care more about the institution than the people who are in the pews. Many religious leaders fail to make the personal connection between the seeker and the faith-it's not a conversation it's a lecture.
This data also leads me to question why journalists continue to identify the "base" of the Republican party in such a way that implies that there are more of the evangelical religious than there are? I suspect the tail is wagging the dog, i.e. the religiously extreme are pushing an agenda that the majority of the party doesn't support, but they have been given an outsize voice. The "moral majority" of Richard Nixon's day has just morphed into the still-not-the-majority religious extremists. Quit giving them the microphone and their true numbers will be revealed.
This data also leads me to question why journalists continue to identify the "base" of the Republican party in such a way that implies that there are more of the evangelical religious than there are? I suspect the tail is wagging the dog, i.e. the religiously extreme are pushing an agenda that the majority of the party doesn't support, but they have been given an outsize voice. The "moral majority" of Richard Nixon's day has just morphed into the still-not-the-majority religious extremists. Quit giving them the microphone and their true numbers will be revealed.
14
I think we too often blame shepherds for the behavior of their flocks. The leaders of unpleasant people are usually only first among equals - the most zealous among zealots and the stupidest among the stupid. Check out Congress - or SCOTUS which believes a legal construct has free speech rights and religious beliefs. It doesn't hurt if there's a buck to be made either, of course.
2
Can I lead a moral life without belonging to Christianity or any other organized religion? Of course I can! Can I have a spiritual experience without believing
in a deity or visiting a place of worship? Of course I can! Why should I believe
utter nonsense penned by our tribal ancestors who had no understanding of any of the physical processes of the universe? I have been given a sliver of time, however short, in this amazing and wonderful universe. I do not plan to waste my time bound by ancient and ridiculous beliefs. Just contemplating the universe, in all its glory, gives me all the feelings of spirituality that I need.
in a deity or visiting a place of worship? Of course I can! Why should I believe
utter nonsense penned by our tribal ancestors who had no understanding of any of the physical processes of the universe? I have been given a sliver of time, however short, in this amazing and wonderful universe. I do not plan to waste my time bound by ancient and ridiculous beliefs. Just contemplating the universe, in all its glory, gives me all the feelings of spirituality that I need.
60
"Can I have a spiritual experience without believing
in a deity or visiting a place of worship?"
Can I actually just live my life without even feeling the need to insist I'm "spiritual"? Of course I can.
in a deity or visiting a place of worship?"
Can I actually just live my life without even feeling the need to insist I'm "spiritual"? Of course I can.
2
The 19th-century Whig historian Thomas Babington Macaulay observed in his day "a most pernicious disposition to mix up religion with politics" and predicted the inevitable consequences: "For my own part, I can conceive nothing more dangerous to the interests of religion than the new Conservative device of representing a reforming spirit as synonymous with an infidel spirit. For a short time the Tories may gain something by giving to civil abuses the sanctity of religion; but religion will very soon begin to contract the unpopularity which belongs to civil abuses. There will be, I am satisfied, a violent reaction; and ten years hence, Christianity will be as unpopular a topic on the hustings as the duty of seeking the Lord would have been at the time of the Restoration. The world is governed by associations. That which is always appealed to as a defense for every grievance will soon be considered as a grievance itself." And so it is.
8
Christianity remains a living, fulfilling faith for many people in our society. As in any organization involving millions or billions of people, you will find the full range of humanity professing to be Christians. Some live up to that label, and some fail. From personal experience I have known many individuals of the Catholic faith who have labored quietly with no expectation of reward, in service to those who are ignored by society. They are quietly ministering to the ill, the homeless and those without hope in a competitive, often unforgiving society. These are true Christians, and we are fortunate as a nation to have them. I am also pleased to know them as fellow parishioners.
6
There is nothing uniquely Christian about serving the underserved. There are atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., who do equally good things. People who are going to devote their lives to others will do so regardless of their religious beliefs.
2
I am no longer a believer even though raise Catholic . Once I lost my fear I became free and I am able to question all the dogma associated with religion and reject the flawed beliefs of men who created religion.
22
Decline in theistic religion was always an inevitable and expectable long-term consequence of the scientific revolution. It's a good thing, not a bad thing, that democracy is well and securely established enough in this country that individuals are now truly free to choose to opt out of the social fantasy without suffering unacceptable consequences (death, torture, or imprisonment, the historical tools of religious control). In a century we will be looking back and wonder why it was that theistic religion held its grip on the human imagination for so long because it will be universally obvious by then that beliefs in deities and afterlife were always fantasies devoid of objective reality and harmful to the maturation process of individuals and societies when indulged to excess...
26
The limits of human language complicate any discussion of faith. To believe in what for convenience I call "God" does not mean I believe in a universe-sized Gandalf.
As a person of very deep faith but no belief in dogma, I accept that there is much I will never understand. I believe in science and mathematics but anything more than simple arithmetic or the basics of biology are pretty much beyond my ken. But I believe in the laws of physics though there's no way I could explain any of them to anyone.
So I think many people, uncomfortable with traditional dogma of any kind, and with no satisfactory neutral language to express what they may feel innately, just don't bother with labels anymore because they don't need them. In a secular country--whose secularism is always under attack by lunatics dressed as "the faithful," it's easier than ever to find community without entering a church door. The unaffiliated with a church are not alienated from society at large.
As always, things are more complex than a statistic can tell you....
As a person of very deep faith but no belief in dogma, I accept that there is much I will never understand. I believe in science and mathematics but anything more than simple arithmetic or the basics of biology are pretty much beyond my ken. But I believe in the laws of physics though there's no way I could explain any of them to anyone.
So I think many people, uncomfortable with traditional dogma of any kind, and with no satisfactory neutral language to express what they may feel innately, just don't bother with labels anymore because they don't need them. In a secular country--whose secularism is always under attack by lunatics dressed as "the faithful," it's easier than ever to find community without entering a church door. The unaffiliated with a church are not alienated from society at large.
As always, things are more complex than a statistic can tell you....
15
You seem to imply that the US is a secular country. I, on the contrary, believe that this is still a basically religious country, dogmatic in its dominant beliefs, but with powerful secular forces, ever rising in power and influence. While among these is the ever increasing impact of science and reason, they also include consumerism and basic, selfish individualism. Still a struggle, with no guaranteed happy ending.
1
Eduardo: The US, as distinguished from every other nation on earth, was founded on secular principles where every religion was welcome but none could officially dominate the public sphere. Now-secular European nations all have a history of monarchs who were expected or required to be defenders of their particular faith.
The difference between an officially Christian nation and a majority Christian nation--uh--bedevils too many of our fellow Americans who have little understanding of the true glory and genius of our Founders--flawed and incomplete as their vision was in reference to human rights.
I thank God for the secularism enshrined in our Constitution...
The difference between an officially Christian nation and a majority Christian nation--uh--bedevils too many of our fellow Americans who have little understanding of the true glory and genius of our Founders--flawed and incomplete as their vision was in reference to human rights.
I thank God for the secularism enshrined in our Constitution...
3
"Unaffiliated" translates for me to those who acknowledge they don't know but continue to seek. They are free to find their own path, and that path would take many turns. In addition there would be no need to kill and go to war to force "unbelievers" into the fold. The power/greed dragon would have been slain. It would deflate politics that seem to have lost the ability to govern, but still need to gain reelection by fear and religious fervor. It is only a tool for politicians. Religion in and of itself is not the 'problem'. Only good and care for our brothers and sisters is a cornerstone. However, humans have the ability to find possibilities for control and greed, and have tarnished this path of sincerity. Count me 'unaffiliated".
6
"The declining number of self-identified Christians could be the result of a political backlash against the association of Christianity with conservative political values." Maybe, but the opposite backlash occurs as well, and given the choice of God or my political party, I choose to keep God and change my political party. I suspect there are many Christians like myself who remain self-identified Christians but have fled the GOP because of the hijacking of a loving, eternal God by conservatives to attain temporary political power.
18
This new Pew study was conducted by phone, which is itself impressive given its sample size. However surprising its findings, it might actually be under-stating the magnitude of this shift in public opinions about religion. Per a study by the Public Religion Research Institute published last year, phone surveys and online surveys on this topic yield very different results, presumably because respondents to a phone survey feel social pressure to hide their true sentiments, aka Social Desirability Bias. http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/AAPOR-2014-Fin...
2
I left Christianity (a mainline denomination) because of demands to believe things that aren't so, and maybe because of lack of an effective response by that denomination to the religious rightwing nonsense that supported politicians pushing America in ways I believe are the wrong way to go (and also violating religious teachings). It's hard to find an honest liberal church as opposed to a dogmatic dishonest conservative one. Jesus wasn't a Republican and wasn't anything like the vicious greedy fools who call themselves Christian now.
39
Try giving 'Village Presbyterian' in Prairie Village, KS a try. The Rev. Tom Are is a phenomenal preacher, and it truly is an 'honest liberal church'.
Many American's are tired of hate wrapped in religion. That raises their doubt. They search the internet and discover that much of what they have been told in church is not true. Then they read Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett etal., and feel ridiculous for having believed this for so long. Finally, they reread the Bible or Quran and wonder how they could have ever been fooled, and that nothing magical is really happening at all in their religion, it was in their head all the time. That process is repeating itself millions of times over. The truth is coming out, very quietly. One personal decision at a time, America is walking away from hate.
41
Welcome news, but of course the USA remains a deeply abnormal developed country where skewed interpretations of Biblical scripture (e.g. the weird "end of days" worldview of Christian eschatology) play a huge role in driving the country's foreign and economic policies. Ever wondered why so many evangelicals in Texas and Kansas care about Israel? Benjamin Netanyahu ought to dig a little deeper rather than pandering to such people.
22
When many people say they don't belief christianity, they rather wan't to distinguish church and morality.
There is nothing wrong in being a christian, but this permanent prerogative of interpretation of people like the tea-party, neocons, Sarah Palin, George Bush simply is degrading.
So i claim i am a christian, but holy jesus, none of these bigots, i rather believe in the hubble space telescope, Kant and Darwin than some bible-abiding blowhard. There is a reason god gave us this curiousity, this powerful beautiful mind and a social sense, things i find lacking quite often by people who claim to be true christians.
There is nothing wrong in being a christian, but this permanent prerogative of interpretation of people like the tea-party, neocons, Sarah Palin, George Bush simply is degrading.
So i claim i am a christian, but holy jesus, none of these bigots, i rather believe in the hubble space telescope, Kant and Darwin than some bible-abiding blowhard. There is a reason god gave us this curiousity, this powerful beautiful mind and a social sense, things i find lacking quite often by people who claim to be true christians.
40
What a refreshing comment! Amen to you!
Churches, imperfect as they are, are community centers of a sort. Facebook has replaced them with an illusion of community.
4
It is the church that provides the illusion of community.
I left religion long before Facebook, having been told loudly and clearly that God hates homosexuals.
Which is fine. Y'all keep your God. Preferably to yourselves.
Which is fine. Y'all keep your God. Preferably to yourselves.
1
The atheists, agnostics and other unaffiliateds are finally back in the ascent? Thank God! I mean....
13
The further good news is that everyone here can criticize and demean religion in public and will not be punished, jailed or killed. Just don't mention you know who. I have to believe they'll eventually catch up. Can't deny Science.
7
Tsk, tsk, 70% is still substantial and many want to make the US a theocracy of Jesus freaks. When we get to 50% and the Bible thumpers do not run politics in my old home state, Indiana, and other places, then we have something to talk about.
81
Almost all organized religions end up be power organizations, who primary goal is to "expand their power". Corruption seems to occur in all mainline Christian large organizations. The TV evangelist live in $10M mansions and fly in private jets. I belong to no religion. But if I did, I would join a very small neighborhood church, where I can see if anyone in charge is purely there for the power and money.
12
When I was living in the Bible Belt, I was often asked what church I attend. My answer was usually "St. Mattress" (as in, I sleep in on Sunday mornings). The fanatically fundamentalist religious usually didn't get the joke - they thought I was attending one of them there catholic places . . .
28
Funny!!!
Good one! Or, St. Mimosa if you do the brunch thing.
1
I am surprised. I don't think near 73% act like Christians.
22
This is somewhat interesting, but on the other hand, not that meaningful. Plenty of people have called themselves Christian and been anything but that in their actions, and plenty of non-Christians are walking the walk of real Christianity in the way they live. So ... ?
13
I note from the "Uniform Crime Reporting System" that during a similar time interval (2007 to 2012 ... the last year for which data are available) the violent crime rate in the US dropped from 471.8 to 386.9.
So much for a connection between Christianity and morality.
So much for a connection between Christianity and morality.
18
I'm a lapsed Catholic -- but if Pope Francis lives long enough and keeps going the way he's going, I may change my mind.
21
Yep-- He's true enough to make many of us consider the Catholic church!
Thanks for being so caring, my Liberal friends. But we Christians will be alright.
We forgive your trespass.
We forgive your trespass.
"Trespass"? Against what? Your personal belief system? Don't confuse secularism with a wish to do you harm. Freedom of religion is still part of America's social fabric. I am a "fallen away" Catholic, but I attend the weddings and funeral masses of Catholic relatives; I don't attack parishioners or insult believers. And, I have no interest in the belief systems of strangers, yours included.
4
Yes, you will always have that security blanket of hatred and superiority to cling to.
5
The fact that the 9/11 attacks were religiously inspired made many people question the idea of basing morality on divine revelation. The continuing horrors of the religious wars in the middle east also affect people's attitudes about the claims of religious leaders of various types. The surge of theocrats and their apparent inability to bring peace and prosperity inspires disgust in thinking people.
26
In my part of the country, unfortunately more than a few people who call themselves Christian are anything but. I respect those who truly live their faiths. However, too often when someone proclaims himself/herself a Christian, more often than not you learn that they disdain poor people, oppose LGBT rights, want to dismantle public education because it is "not Jesus-centered," love the NRA, are pro-censorship, and vote for hard right Republicans. They do mission trips abroad, while ignoring extreme poverty and children in need right in their own backyards. No wonder so many avoid the "Christian" label at present.
51
It would be interesting to find what percent of those who call themselves Christian actually live their lives according to Jesus' precepts. And for that matter, what percent of non-Christians do.
Proud to be and ex Christian!
14
So the number of people calling themselves Christians is dropping? Glory hallelujah!
19
Mormonism and Islam are the only growing religions in the world.
3
Science has made clear many errors in religious texts. If the leaders of various religions had adopted scientific discoveries as updates of the myths in Christian or other religious belief rather than as enemies, religion wouldn't be so hard to swallow nowadays. Science has not proved there is no god. It has simply offered more believable explanations for how the world we know came to be. It does not answer the most important questions -- where we came from and where we are going when we die. There is room for religion to help us deal with those questions. Science has no answers to those questions, only some guesses. But, probably due to lack of education in science, Christianity and other modern religions have failed to grapple with those basic questions.
On top of it all, the world's religious leaders have cultivated an us-against-them philosophy which is damaging in today's crowded world where different types of people must learn to cooperate. We can no longer afford to demonize people of other nationalities and religions as so many Christian and other religions do. Young people see this as counterproductive as they try to live in very ethnically and racially mixed societies.
The fact that many individual religious leaders are seduced into enriching themselves at the expense of the poor and have used their religious followers to build political empires having nothing to do with their religious beliefs has driven away followers.
On top of it all, the world's religious leaders have cultivated an us-against-them philosophy which is damaging in today's crowded world where different types of people must learn to cooperate. We can no longer afford to demonize people of other nationalities and religions as so many Christian and other religions do. Young people see this as counterproductive as they try to live in very ethnically and racially mixed societies.
The fact that many individual religious leaders are seduced into enriching themselves at the expense of the poor and have used their religious followers to build political empires having nothing to do with their religious beliefs has driven away followers.
15
Religious people need to understand that it is exactly those questions--where we came from, where we go after we die and others--that religion has failed to answer. Man's real hubris is pretending to know these answers. The real question is, considering our vast resource of scientific inquiry: why do we need so much to know the unknowable? Why presume anything based on blind faith? Why?
I've always wondered why mankind is not satisfied to love the mystery itself; to love love itself, and find satisfaction in treating each other better. The answer is fear and insecurity.
I've always wondered why mankind is not satisfied to love the mystery itself; to love love itself, and find satisfaction in treating each other better. The answer is fear and insecurity.
2
There are two ways to interpret this change: One is that Americans have become more materialistic, less moral. Ethics and questions of the greater good have no interest for those who abandon their faith.
The other interpretation is that it demonstrates people's increasing capacity to think for themselves, to act in an ethical manner in the absence of a religious affiliation, and their rejection of conservative Christian values being shoved down their throats from pulpits across the country.
Both may be true, but I prefer the latter.
The other interpretation is that it demonstrates people's increasing capacity to think for themselves, to act in an ethical manner in the absence of a religious affiliation, and their rejection of conservative Christian values being shoved down their throats from pulpits across the country.
Both may be true, but I prefer the latter.
27
Consider: there may be more the two ways to interpret this change. An open mind may find many ways........
4
Other studies have found that atheists and agnostics are highly ethical groups.
8
One question that perhaps should be asked is what will step in to carry out the legitimate role religion in general -- and specifically Christianity -- has played in our society. For all of its faults, and God knows there are many, Christianity provides us with a vocabulary and intellectual tradition that can help us to intelligently discuss some of the central questions of our existence. Once that tradition is discredited, where do we look for similar guidance? Television? The Internet? Our political leaders? Literature and art? Even in aggregate, they will in all probability fall far short of meeting our needs. For all of its self-centeredness and bigotry, and God knows both are in clear evidence across the religious spectrum, where else other than through Christianity does our society posit the importance of our individual humanity, and our duty as humans to love and assist one another. Does the economic marketplace give us such guidance? I think not. Don't be too quick to celebrate the trends noted in this survey, unless you have much more confidence than I can muster that alternate sources of inspiration and guidance are readily available to us. I just don't see them, and their potential absence scares the bejeezus out of me.
6
do christians actually "intelligently discuss" much? I do not encounter that from my many family members (largely in Texas) who loudly proclaim their chrstianity.
3
Perhaps you could look to logic? That is the problem with christians; they see a void where others see logic and reason.
3
"Christianity provides us with a vocabulary and intellectual tradition that can help us to intelligently discuss some of the central questions of our existence."
Wow. Maybe it does for you. Not for me. "Do unto others..." is all I find necessary.
Wow. Maybe it does for you. Not for me. "Do unto others..." is all I find necessary.
1
Very good news for both reason and democracy.
26
The start of this decline was when prayer was taken out of the schools. Now we have seemingly no morality in this anything goes society.
2
Taking prayer out of schools, and rightfully so since we are founded as a non-sectarian nation, is a recent occurrence. How do you account for all those years when it was not IN schools?
4
YAY, no prayer in schools.....there's morality w/o religion
Poor God, the little things that do Him in - and according to His followers, He is powerless to do anything about it.
2
I was brought up in a mainline Protestant church, but have not attended regularly for almost twenty years. Many commenters who, like me, are secular, seem to regard the decline of affiliation as a triumph of rationality. My take is that the decline in religious affiliation has less to do with the superior rationality (!) of the younger generations than with their (and I include myself here) untempered devotion to the individualistic value system that emerged out of the counterculture of the 60s and the Reaganite ideology of the 80s. For various reasons, the generations for whom acquisitive individualism is the default worldview simply don't value participation in religious community. Fair enough, but I fear that a value system centered around individual material advancement and self-gratification has had and will continue to have unfortunate social consequences in an age of worsening inequality. Much conservative evangelical religion is, with its veneration of wealth, simply an alternative way of justifying acquisitive individualism. But the largest decline is in mainline Protestantism, which has been at times a pioneer and a valuable alternative source of moral authority. For example, in the church I attended growing up, gay couples were married years before that became possible in any state; moreover, it was the most racially and economically diverse community I have ever been involved in. Despite having left, I feel ambivalent that such communities are disappearing.
7
With all the Christian bashing taking place in this paper and other liberal media outlets is it any wonder people will not self-identify as Christian to a pollster?
6
Joe, I think it's a safe bet that the amount of Christian-bashing in the world today is WAY less than the amount of bashing that has been done over the years of other people BY Christians.
1
Rubbish. The old "put upon Christian" line has gotten very stale.
3
What Christian bashing? I hear this whine all the time but none of the people doing the whining every come up with concrete examples, other than to claim that not allowing them to violate the separation of church and state is some kind of persecution.
3
This article provides hope for sane people everywhere!
Religion is a personal matter and politicians use it as code for I am a good person- you're not. Look at Santorum and Huckabee who use their religious views as wedges to judge and divide people instead of bringing people together. Look at the disastrous SCOTUS with so many rigid Catholics who bring their religious views to bear on their judicial rulings. We should abolish all mention of religion in all campaigns and all aspects of government.
Moreover, religious institutions should not be exempt from paying taxes. Hear that millionaires Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen and the rest of the TV scammers?
Religion is a personal matter and politicians use it as code for I am a good person- you're not. Look at Santorum and Huckabee who use their religious views as wedges to judge and divide people instead of bringing people together. Look at the disastrous SCOTUS with so many rigid Catholics who bring their religious views to bear on their judicial rulings. We should abolish all mention of religion in all campaigns and all aspects of government.
Moreover, religious institutions should not be exempt from paying taxes. Hear that millionaires Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen and the rest of the TV scammers?
35
In 2,000 years you're going to have people who will insist that "Star Wars" actually happened.
8
Wait...it didn't?
When someone you just met asserts that "I am a good Christian", it is sound advice to hold on to your wallet.
22
Sadly that's true. I've been had by more than one "good Christian" business person.
Sooner or later people come to realize the absurdity of it all - each and every Christian sect believes that they and they alone have the key to eternal salvation. As we simply live our lives and see different people, good people, who simply follow very slightly different paths in their various flavors of Christianity, those of us with open minds begin to see the cracks. We see the utter absurdity in the notions that if someone doesn't do one teensy little thing then they are damned for eternity. That certainty of each one's brand of salvation is really what makes it very plain that there isn't any there there.
17
I am fascinated by the strange illusion of unity - and its power - which characterizes Christianity. Ever since the Protestant revolution, the various and sundry gods of the Christians have no more in common than the gods of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Not even the rites and rituals of one denomination resemble that of another. Speaking in tongues, kissing snakes, being immersed (completely) in water, sex with only approved persons and in the proper position are all lumped together as Christian. Amazing
1
This is what such Authoritarian mental garbage as 'public deism' and the politicization of congregations and parishes hath wrought. The People are smart, and they vote with their feet.
As the church has been annexed by the so-called 'conservative elite,' the thinking people of the United States are leaving it.
Sounds like a perfectly rational reaction by peace-loving, free-thinking people.
This fetish the 'conservatives' have for Tartuffery, and their evil genius for marshaling the congregations in profane, selfish politics has produced bitter fruit -- a needlessly divided nation and, now, a declining church. This report is further proof that modern 'conservatism' is an ideology of folly that leads to war, suffering, poverty and ruin.
O Lord, forgive us for our experimentation with 'conservatism.'
As the church has been annexed by the so-called 'conservative elite,' the thinking people of the United States are leaving it.
Sounds like a perfectly rational reaction by peace-loving, free-thinking people.
This fetish the 'conservatives' have for Tartuffery, and their evil genius for marshaling the congregations in profane, selfish politics has produced bitter fruit -- a needlessly divided nation and, now, a declining church. This report is further proof that modern 'conservatism' is an ideology of folly that leads to war, suffering, poverty and ruin.
O Lord, forgive us for our experimentation with 'conservatism.'
12
Hopefully this reflects a decline in the role of medieval superstition in American society. The role of "faith " should be directed towards oneself, not towards imaginary gods holding post- mortem rewards for good behavior.
6
"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."
-- Chapman Cohen
-- Chapman Cohen
14
The time will come when no one believes in a bunch of ancient myths and the world will be a better place.
19
Perhaps more Americans are recognizing religion as just another manipulation wedge issue used by politicians, right up there with gays and guns.
And some of of us just plain don't like the self rightism of religious followers.
Plus who has the energy to go to church any more? Too busy working ya know.
And some of of us just plain don't like the self rightism of religious followers.
Plus who has the energy to go to church any more? Too busy working ya know.
13
No mention of my faith, FSM, which has led the way.
Connect the dots folks, we know too much to continue with the old man in the sky nonsense. The next thing is to understand how we shut it all down, that part will be tricky.
Connect the dots folks, we know too much to continue with the old man in the sky nonsense. The next thing is to understand how we shut it all down, that part will be tricky.
5
What is "FSM," Garrett?
All the great wisdom traditions have spiritual practices as vehicles for transcending a life circumscribed by fear and living in survival mode. Learning discipline or devotion within a tradition is personal and everyone should have that choice.
The problem with the fundamentalisms of all faiths is not having a practice that is for YOU to work on yourself, but a belief system that is basically about making other people do things: convert, need your control, have your biases, political affiliations, for you to be comfortable, get yourself to your big reward, etc. This is worthless.
The problem with the fundamentalisms of all faiths is not having a practice that is for YOU to work on yourself, but a belief system that is basically about making other people do things: convert, need your control, have your biases, political affiliations, for you to be comfortable, get yourself to your big reward, etc. This is worthless.
9
Bad news for humanity because the primary purpose of man and society is to draw closer to God. Church attendance helps to achieve this endeavor.
3
Hopefully this means there is a significant decline in the percentage of Americans who believe in magic, miracles and other superstition. If so, this will no doubt translate into greater happiness for our society. However, I wonder if the Pew results might just signify some semantic glitch.
9
I'd like to think that advancement in science has something to do with this. So much of the bible has been outed as fiction, and we no longer need God to explain things we could not understand 50 years ago.
18
You can,t explain everything by science else we would be God ourselves.
How sad, but not surprising, given the group of the under socialized I see walking the streets with their smart phones, not hands, attached to their arms.
I don't believe it for a minute given the number of Jews, Christians, and Muslims I see in this country, who all believe in the same GOD.
With the extreme Islamist component, maybe the author and some commenters will be satisfied when all Christians are wiped off the earth and Theocracy rules.
I don't believe it for a minute given the number of Jews, Christians, and Muslims I see in this country, who all believe in the same GOD.
With the extreme Islamist component, maybe the author and some commenters will be satisfied when all Christians are wiped off the earth and Theocracy rules.
1
"With the extreme Islamist component, maybe the author and some commenters will be satisfied when all Christians are wiped off the earth and Theocracy rules."
Wait. You mean Christianity is *opposed* to theocracy? I thought Christianity was one of the big-time forms of theocracy.
Wait. You mean Christianity is *opposed* to theocracy? I thought Christianity was one of the big-time forms of theocracy.
1
Christians are a majority in this country and are trying to create a Theocracy in many states.
2
This isn't some op-ed article expressing the opinions of the author, it's a report on a statistically significant survey by Pew Research Center. You said, "I don't believe it for a minute." So you don't believe in statistics? That explains a lot...
4
The current story of the poor 10 year old in Paraguay who was a victim of incest is an example of the fundamentalism/State unholy marriage. The "powers that be" have to have a tiny kid risk her life to satisfy this belief system. They can't figure out how to be humane. It fell to the UN to try to help her.
Insane and why a lot of people are not interested in losing the line between secular and religious.
Insane and why a lot of people are not interested in losing the line between secular and religious.
11
Religion promises freedom from mortality and freedom from moral ambiguity. Unfortunately, both are part of life and cannot be swept under the rug with a little mumbo-jumbo. After a period of going around jesusing this and jesusing that, people are bound to realize it isn't a solution.
9
As a former Lutheran turned Catholic, I am now catholic with a lower case "c" and becoming more and more skeptical about the institutional teachings of Christianity and about religion in general.
I would attribute this change (mine personally and that discussed in this article) to the greater availability of information afforded by the internet, as well as the hijacking of the political process by evangelical christian types.
Either way, those who remain staunchly religious can take heart in the fact that this is all God's will.
I would attribute this change (mine personally and that discussed in this article) to the greater availability of information afforded by the internet, as well as the hijacking of the political process by evangelical christian types.
Either way, those who remain staunchly religious can take heart in the fact that this is all God's will.
6
"thy will be done on earth as it is in ..." It seems to be "thy" will with a lower case "t".
Good news. Just about time, although it appears that most of us are genetically predisposed to be religious. Fortunately, in this country we have many choices, no need to list any of them here.
Muslims seem to have only two major choices, Sunnis and Shia and they are both living in the era of deadly religious wars that this country cannot avoid to participate in.
Am I a Christian? Perhaps, since some 80 years ago I was baptized. Do I ever go to any place of worship? Too old and crippled to do that.
Are some pastors wonderful human being? They certainly are.
Muslims seem to have only two major choices, Sunnis and Shia and they are both living in the era of deadly religious wars that this country cannot avoid to participate in.
Am I a Christian? Perhaps, since some 80 years ago I was baptized. Do I ever go to any place of worship? Too old and crippled to do that.
Are some pastors wonderful human being? They certainly are.
4
WIth full respect towards the various Christian faiths and others -- God is not in any particular building or place. God is everywhere. You can pray anywhere.
A Jew's fundamental place of worship is not a synagogue, but their home. I suggest if you cannot get out of your home to go to church (or mosque or synagogue), you pray where you are. God will hear you.
A Jew's fundamental place of worship is not a synagogue, but their home. I suggest if you cannot get out of your home to go to church (or mosque or synagogue), you pray where you are. God will hear you.
The wrapping of the Cross and the U.S. Flag, combined with the militarization and commoditization of our society, has led to worship of Idols: Mammon; the Military; and a GOP obsessed with guns. No wonder the young and thinking people flee any churches which have wrapped themselves in the flag and salute "warriors" and war.
It has indeed become almost embarrassing for an intellectual to acknowledge belief in God and admit to praying. Which is sad actually.
As what I'd call a Zen Christian, I find it makes more sense to pray as Jesus did - off by myself. In silence and meditation. Trying to make of my life a Prayer.
I respect everyone who sincerely follows a faith or no faith, provided they also profess care for all persons and for the earth - our common home and inheritance. To me, that shows a person's true colors.
It has indeed become almost embarrassing for an intellectual to acknowledge belief in God and admit to praying. Which is sad actually.
As what I'd call a Zen Christian, I find it makes more sense to pray as Jesus did - off by myself. In silence and meditation. Trying to make of my life a Prayer.
I respect everyone who sincerely follows a faith or no faith, provided they also profess care for all persons and for the earth - our common home and inheritance. To me, that shows a person's true colors.
18
Just twenty years ago about 90% of the country identified as Christian. Now its 70% and dropping rapidly. Not surprised.
With few if any exceptions, organized religion = organized ignorance.
It's good to think for yourself. There are many sages who offer relevant insights about values and the big questions most of us have. It's good to listen to a variety of them I think, but in the end make up your own mind.
Live a decent set of values you believe in and I think the universe will in some inexplicable way be pleased.
With few if any exceptions, organized religion = organized ignorance.
It's good to think for yourself. There are many sages who offer relevant insights about values and the big questions most of us have. It's good to listen to a variety of them I think, but in the end make up your own mind.
Live a decent set of values you believe in and I think the universe will in some inexplicable way be pleased.
20
Many people struggle with that complex and challenging concept, the metaphor...
The sacred books of every religion contain universal core values. Those might be called the passages of divine inspiration. The rest is cluttered up with history, petty squabbles, politically-motivated tracts etc. etc.
For anyone inclined to spirituality and understanding that "faith" and "dogma" are separate and contradictory terms, it's not hard to discern what strikes the soul as "truthful" and what is just mean-spirited nonsense inserted into the texts by the demagogues of various eras.
Educated people today, more mobile than in any other time and able to connect to like-minded people who might live a world away, don't need what older generations required to form a community. Further, religions used to control the rites and passages of life. In civil society one can celebrate and enter into affiliations and render the necessary services and comforts to the dead and their bereaved without the control of religious authorities. So faith can be more personal and entirely internal, not for public display.
The sacred books of every religion contain universal core values. Those might be called the passages of divine inspiration. The rest is cluttered up with history, petty squabbles, politically-motivated tracts etc. etc.
For anyone inclined to spirituality and understanding that "faith" and "dogma" are separate and contradictory terms, it's not hard to discern what strikes the soul as "truthful" and what is just mean-spirited nonsense inserted into the texts by the demagogues of various eras.
Educated people today, more mobile than in any other time and able to connect to like-minded people who might live a world away, don't need what older generations required to form a community. Further, religions used to control the rites and passages of life. In civil society one can celebrate and enter into affiliations and render the necessary services and comforts to the dead and their bereaved without the control of religious authorities. So faith can be more personal and entirely internal, not for public display.
7
"For anyone inclined to spirituality and understanding that "faith" and "dogma" are separate and contradictory terms"
I think that's wishful thinking. Faith and dogma have always been tightly entwined in reality.
I think that's wishful thinking. Faith and dogma have always been tightly entwined in reality.
DW: Every religion has its loonies and its mystic visionaries, and the former are always trying to kill off the latter. As with Sufism in Islam.
Ivy entwines itself on and strangles trees, though they are separate species. Same with dogma and faith. It's the responsibility of every thinking person to discern the difference.
Ivy entwines itself on and strangles trees, though they are separate species. Same with dogma and faith. It's the responsibility of every thinking person to discern the difference.
Such demographic changes are sure to force a change in political strategy of wooing voters by the parties and leaders and compel them to look beyond the vote bank politics to the pressing issues of the day.
3
It would have been interesting to hear in a little more detail about how this decline gets expressed along race and gender and class lines--sexuality lines, too.
It would also be interesting to have a survey on religious literacy. One universal among my college undergraduates--affiliated or not, atheist or observant--is profound ignorance of religions, their histories and practices and variations, but especially their theologies. Most students can't name a single Christian theologian, living or dead. And their conceptions of Christian theology, when they have one at all, would be unrecognizable by most major theologians in the orthodox, catholic or protestant traditions. It's a consequence, in part, of under-educated clergy in American churches, but it's a rather stunning ignorance nonetheless.
It would also be interesting to have a survey on religious literacy. One universal among my college undergraduates--affiliated or not, atheist or observant--is profound ignorance of religions, their histories and practices and variations, but especially their theologies. Most students can't name a single Christian theologian, living or dead. And their conceptions of Christian theology, when they have one at all, would be unrecognizable by most major theologians in the orthodox, catholic or protestant traditions. It's a consequence, in part, of under-educated clergy in American churches, but it's a rather stunning ignorance nonetheless.
8
The alleged or real decline in religious affiliation in the U.S. is probably no cause for celebration. I would urge caution, insist on vigilance, and have a packed bag, cash, and a valid passport ready at all times. Of course, since I'm lazy and sometimes optimistic I won't take my own advice. Plus, I don't want to appear to be paranoid. Maybe I worry too much about the wrong things.
3
The internet has enabled this, thank (I hesitate to say) God. It becomes harder and harder to adhere to iron- and bronze-aged dogmas in the presence of access to information. Much of the flareup of recent religious fundamentalism is probably in response to this; they are trying to retrench. One hopes, unsuccessfully.
25
The phony "Christians" who hijacked the religion to provide the easy thrills of political anger and prejudice have not just driven people away--they've failed to provide for their own future.
They've undermined moderate churches that provided community, reflected people's ethnic backgrounds, trained people to value civic service, and helped support the poor.
Are the children of evangelicals--carted in droves to indistinguishable megachurches--really going to return after college and join? Will they value one congregation over another? Nope. They've dug their own grave with their shallow charismatics. Good.
They've undermined moderate churches that provided community, reflected people's ethnic backgrounds, trained people to value civic service, and helped support the poor.
Are the children of evangelicals--carted in droves to indistinguishable megachurches--really going to return after college and join? Will they value one congregation over another? Nope. They've dug their own grave with their shallow charismatics. Good.
39
The public voices of Christianity in this country are so un-Christian in their attitudes, no wonder many people are turned off to religion.
85
I think we all would like to have some type of religious bond. But the churches, pushed by the new"witch doctors", are trying to have us attack windmills based on faith alone. That's not working. One persons interpretation of the spiritual world doesn't seem to be the way to go.
5
The decline is due to the hard benches in churches like the ones in the photo the tops the article.
8
Maybe because the label 'Christian' which used to mean compassionate, humble, caring, and pro-underdog, now means, to a lot of people, narrow-minded, self-righteous, bigoted and pro-rich and powerful? Not to mention criminally sexually abusive?
Watching the shenanigans of the gay-, poor-, and minority- hating rightwing 'Christians', who trumpet their devotion to Jesus as they go about their very un-Jesus like behavior, who would want to be put under the same label as them?
Watching the shenanigans of the gay-, poor-, and minority- hating rightwing 'Christians', who trumpet their devotion to Jesus as they go about their very un-Jesus like behavior, who would want to be put under the same label as them?
41
This is so true. It's as if you have to be a "stealth christian" in order to truly follow Jesus in the 21st century.
1
With increased knowledge, the internet, physics, science what did you expect? People are ceasing to believe in unrealistic fantasies that clearly go against the laws of nature and common sense.
Let's be honest here. Religion is really about death and our natural aversion to it. Religion, with our complicity, encourages us to believe that there is a soul, a notion which is clearly make-believe and nonsensical, and that the "soul" will endure so that we and our deceased relatives and friends are still around, angels watching over us. It ain't necessarily so!
Eat what you want, wear what you want, no more crazy headgear, sleep late on Sunday. Hallelujah.
Let's be honest here. Religion is really about death and our natural aversion to it. Religion, with our complicity, encourages us to believe that there is a soul, a notion which is clearly make-believe and nonsensical, and that the "soul" will endure so that we and our deceased relatives and friends are still around, angels watching over us. It ain't necessarily so!
Eat what you want, wear what you want, no more crazy headgear, sleep late on Sunday. Hallelujah.
28
I only have to look toward religious extremists abroad to see what happens to a government that is infused with religious dogma. The fact that Christians are trying to infuse their dogma into the American political landscape is nothing short of frightening. For many, religion seems to serve as a shield against having to truly care for people around the world unless of course they are part of your religion.
34
'...The acute decline in the Catholic population...the Catholic share of the population has been fairly stable over the last few decades, in no small part because it has been reinforced by migration from Latin America...'
Which is the only reason the Catholic is pro illegal immigrant.
It is not as if the Church will be supporting any of those immigrants or the children they tell them they must have or risk going to Hell. The first thing a Catholic hospital does when an indigent person walks in the door is to apply for Medicaid on their behalf. If a child is born, then add welfare and food stamps.
A win-win for the Church and they could care less about the cost to the taxpayers or the country.
Which is the only reason the Catholic is pro illegal immigrant.
It is not as if the Church will be supporting any of those immigrants or the children they tell them they must have or risk going to Hell. The first thing a Catholic hospital does when an indigent person walks in the door is to apply for Medicaid on their behalf. If a child is born, then add welfare and food stamps.
A win-win for the Church and they could care less about the cost to the taxpayers or the country.
2
Sounds like what Jesus would do...help the poor.
1
When helping the poor, the first consideration should BE the poor, not the taxpayer. And by helping the poor, the country is helped. That's kinda how Christianity is set up.
The Fundamentalist Christian Churches made a deal with the devil for political power and they can no longer reflect the actual values of Christ as a result- compassion, love, tolerance, hope. Look no further than exemplars Huckabee and Carson, who call Obama what they see in the mirror.
35
This is good news for Christianity. The worst thing that can happen to Christianity is to have the faith diluted by wishy-washy believers. So, we are headed in the right direction. If a true poll were taken based on biblical belief, there would probably be less than 10% of Americans who would qualify as true Bible-believing Christians. Just calling oneself a Christian does not make one a Christian. More often than not, it just makes one a liar.
4
Jesus neither called himself a Christian, nor was he "bible-believing" in the sense many "believers" insist is the only way to believe.
Jesus insisted on this test instead: Love the Lord your God with your whole heart and soul. And your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus insisted on this test instead: Love the Lord your God with your whole heart and soul. And your neighbor as yourself.
1
This is so sad to read about the decline of Christianity. My Catholic faith is the most important thing in my life. It has helped me tremendously in the times of trial and despair. Life is not always smooth sailing and when tragedy or difficult times occur I turn to my Catholicism for comfort. I have met many wonderful people in Church who have become close friends and we agree that our faith is essential for daily living. We never know when terrible trials will occur but I know that by putting my trust in God everything will eventually work out all right. It gives me hope and joy.
7
This is heartening. To know that despite the overt co-opting of our political system and image on the world stage by fundamentalist Christians decrying other beliefs (or even minority Christian sects like LDS) as irrational without a hint of irony, there are actually fewer Christians in this nation than before, frankly warms my heart. As a child of non-religious immigrants, I grew up between cultures and with much less Christian influence than most kids in this country. As a result, I have been able to approach the world with rationality, science, and critical thinking, and my life is better for it. I firmly believe we do not need religion to be moral, where morality is defined as treating others the way we want to be treated and living with an eye to leaving behind a better world for our children. Religion, almost by definition, says the best humanity can come up with with respect to morality is in the past, as codified in an ancient book (written when slavery and stoning were just another day in the life). I say, the best is yet to come. Religion is a drag. If that makes me a militant atheist, so be it.
51
There is an angel in heaven named Christopher Hitchens, and he gazes down on this article and smiles.
19
This is the best news I've heard in a long time. Maybe people are becoming better critical thinkers. Yay, for reason!
41
And yet six out of nine Supreme Court Justices are Roman Catholic. How did that happen?
19
Three of the six Catholic Justices have Opus Dei ties. And the Opus is after Power. That's how!
Big mistake. The SCOTUS, above all other institutions, should be non-sectarian.
Are you saying there should be a religious litmus test for Supreme Court Justices?
It certainly doesn't help when the media vilifies Christians as if they were ISIS. I am unaffiliated as well, but the slant I see in the press, shockingly anti-Christian and anti-Semite, while trying to justify the militancy of Islam through political correctness is flat out wrong.
5
The media does no such thing. They simply report on the fact that quite a few so called Christians keep trying to insert religion into public policy.
2
The Economics of Life
I can't help but wonder what role is played by family wealth. The middle class is hurting with a decline from a 27% share in 1995 to a 24% share today (trending rapidly toward the 12% global middle class average share of wealth). The poorer half of the U.S. population has declined from a 3.6% share to just 1%. This devastating loss of family wealth for 62 million people has spread hopelessness. Young adults from this group are abandoning faith or simply not identifying with any religion. They are also abandoning marriage and procreation in large numbers. This is the abortion generation raised by (110 million) parents and (220 million) grandparents who promoted economics over new life and have lost both along with their faith.
The author has correctly seen how politics and religion are intertwined. Religious norms in economics, family formation and abortion are the ones that have disintegrated. Pope Francis understands how the economic decline has led to a decline of the family and religion. Jesus also understood that physical needs must be addressed along with the spiritual ones. Tax reform anyone!
I can't help but wonder what role is played by family wealth. The middle class is hurting with a decline from a 27% share in 1995 to a 24% share today (trending rapidly toward the 12% global middle class average share of wealth). The poorer half of the U.S. population has declined from a 3.6% share to just 1%. This devastating loss of family wealth for 62 million people has spread hopelessness. Young adults from this group are abandoning faith or simply not identifying with any religion. They are also abandoning marriage and procreation in large numbers. This is the abortion generation raised by (110 million) parents and (220 million) grandparents who promoted economics over new life and have lost both along with their faith.
The author has correctly seen how politics and religion are intertwined. Religious norms in economics, family formation and abortion are the ones that have disintegrated. Pope Francis understands how the economic decline has led to a decline of the family and religion. Jesus also understood that physical needs must be addressed along with the spiritual ones. Tax reform anyone!
2
You couldn't be more wrong. Read the article, or even better, the summary at the Pew website. Economic hardship and "hopelessness" engender religion.
1
Hurrah! People are coming to their senses and abandoning fairy tales.
1
Napoleon said, "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
When the rich are worshiped religiosity upticks, when they are in disfavor it declines. You gotta remember to always follow the money.
When the rich are worshiped religiosity upticks, when they are in disfavor it declines. You gotta remember to always follow the money.
34
71% of adults identifying themselves as Christian is still a very significant percentage. If we consider all religions we are talking about another 6 per cent who are people of faith. Over 3/4 of adults in the U S are people of faith no matter what the nay sayers claim.
America is a nation of faith as much or more than it is a nation of freedom, equality and individual rights. America is a nation of faith and always has been---"In God We Trust".
Based upon that strong and solid history people of faith have rights too.
If I believe that gay marriage is wrong why should my rights be violated and my religious beliefs ignored to make somebody else "equal"? Give one person a right and you may take a right away from another person. Rights are not absolute and there always must be a balance. I think freedom of religion is more important than the right to "equal treatment". The US Constitution clearly notes freedom of religion and freedom of expression in the First Amendment. Nowhere in the Constitution do I see mention of "gay marriage', "the right to marry" or even equal treatment. All these rights are implied rather than specified. If I were trying to decide between opposing rights I would vote for the right specifically stated rather than the one implied. That would be the proper, legal and moral thing to do.
I sure hope SCOTUS is listening.
America is a nation of faith as much or more than it is a nation of freedom, equality and individual rights. America is a nation of faith and always has been---"In God We Trust".
Based upon that strong and solid history people of faith have rights too.
If I believe that gay marriage is wrong why should my rights be violated and my religious beliefs ignored to make somebody else "equal"? Give one person a right and you may take a right away from another person. Rights are not absolute and there always must be a balance. I think freedom of religion is more important than the right to "equal treatment". The US Constitution clearly notes freedom of religion and freedom of expression in the First Amendment. Nowhere in the Constitution do I see mention of "gay marriage', "the right to marry" or even equal treatment. All these rights are implied rather than specified. If I were trying to decide between opposing rights I would vote for the right specifically stated rather than the one implied. That would be the proper, legal and moral thing to do.
I sure hope SCOTUS is listening.
4
Please give it a rest. Look at the history of religious justifications for ant-miscegenation laws, justifying slavery - even justifying apartheid in South Africa. There is no one asking anyone's church to violate their beliefs, but it is right and proper to expect civil society to be just that civil and secular. Our founders were largely Deists and followers of the Enlightenment. Manufacturing a level of religiosity that never existed does no one, least of all this Nations, any service.
2
The Constitution took its time to mention women. The framers knew that not all was captured in that document; that's why there are amendments. Women worked to get the vote; slavery was abolished after huge struggles against probably the same sad belief registered above. The Constitution lives because it can be amended and changed.
1. It's my experience that many people identify themselves as "Christian" out of habit, and don't actually practice their supposed faith, so that 71 percent may be somewhat inflated. Furthermore, of that 71 percent, how many believe that gay marriage is wrong? Other polls say that number is shrinking, and is by now probably a minority of your 71 percent.
2. To say America has always been a nation of faith is not quite accurate. Freedom of religion, yes. Establishment of religion, no. You don't see mention of "gay marriage" in the Constitution, I don't see any mention of God.
3. Finally, please explain how one's rights are violated by allowing gay marriage, simply because he/she believes it to be wrong. If a same sex couple gets married, it's really none of that person's business, whatever her/his religion. That person is still free to practice her/his religion of choice. But that person has no right, not even implied, to prevent another's exercise of an implied right. I also hope SCOTUS is listening.
2. To say America has always been a nation of faith is not quite accurate. Freedom of religion, yes. Establishment of religion, no. You don't see mention of "gay marriage" in the Constitution, I don't see any mention of God.
3. Finally, please explain how one's rights are violated by allowing gay marriage, simply because he/she believes it to be wrong. If a same sex couple gets married, it's really none of that person's business, whatever her/his religion. That person is still free to practice her/his religion of choice. But that person has no right, not even implied, to prevent another's exercise of an implied right. I also hope SCOTUS is listening.
2
It is disturbing to think that the men who have the most power in this country are always those who profess to believe in fantasies and mythologies thousands of years old. How can they be realistic about our current state of affairs when their minds are steeped in such fantasies?
32
Don't worry -- they're just giving it cynical lip service because it's what Americans want to hear. Regardless of the stats, just try getting elected dog catcher in America without professing your faith.
1
You're probably correct. But I do think there are some extreme right-wing candidates who really believe all that dogma.
Thank god! At this rate Christianity will be dead before I am dead. :)
14
folks have been saying this for 2000 years. Look @ China: repressed Christians, but the fastest growing Christian group in the world.
1
Voltare sad this centuries ago, the Soviet Union tried this for 70 yrs.....
My friend, God always has the last laugh..
My friend, God always has the last laugh..
1
I would say thank gods!
1
I would add one more explanation to the ones Mr. Cohn lists: education. More and more Americans now go to college, where they are exposed to actual scholarship on religion, as well as the sciences, etc. That was the case with me. I was raised a fundamentalist Christian (child of a pastor, no less), but once I got to college and began studying religion, it became clear that the claims my church made about the world just did not stand up to scrutiny. It was also an environment in which I was finally exposed to the kinds of people I had been taught were scheming agents of evil--primarily gays and lesbians--and who were revealed for who they really are: human beings with the same aspirations to live peaceful, loving lives as anyone else. So once again, a preconceived worldview did not stand up to reality. I'm glad I left Christianity behind--not only was it not healthy for me personally, it wasn't based on anything solid, to boot--but don't think I left simply because of the politicization of issues or generational drift. My decision was informed, educated, and based on evidence, and I'd imagine that accounts for quite a bit of the Church's decline in this country.
47
As the teachings of the current Pope make clear, many of the politicians on the right are taking positions antithetical to Christian values. And seeing these public figures exploit their "faith" for the sake of a small group of Iowa voters is likely to cause many born Christians to run for the exits.
23
As a grown up, I don't feel the need for invisible friends - especially an angry old man who lives in a cloud and grants wishes (credit to Daniel Tosh).
28
Also don't forget George Carlin!
1
It doesn't take a genius to figure out why Christianity is getting a major black eye and the reasons many people are leaving organized religion. With the GOP pandering to the religious right and the whole cultural wars nonsense, and with politicians and the media anointing conservative Christians, especially evangelicals, as representing Christianity, it has left a foul taste in the mouths of many. Young people are still better educated than their elders, and when you are having battles over teaching evolution or trying to teach religion as science, it is going to stick into the craws of those who are educated. Likewise, young people are disgustes with the anti sex attitudes of religious conservatives and are tired of the endless wars on things like birth control and sex education, not to mention the war on gays.The Catholic Church is especially problemation, with the rise of JPII and Benedict taking the church backward, and turning the faith pretty much into being anti gay and anti abortion and anti birth control and as a church staying silent when their political allies demonize the poor, exhalt the rich and so forth, people are leaving the church in droves. There is just too much dissonance between what Catholics believe and what their church leaders are doing, and they are leaving.
3
One contributing factor: what modern-day Republicans call "conservative values" and "Christian values" are considered "anything but" by a growing number of Americans.
10
It baffles me how people can cling to religion after seeing Hubble photos of galaxies billions of light years away.
6
I worked on the Mission Control Shuttle trajectory software that put Hubble in orbit. I stand in awe of the returning pictures. It strengthens my Christian faith.
I have never met nor known any Christians. Only some very ordinary mediocre flawed sinful human beings who are in no moral position to cast any stones nor judge any one. Some better or worse than others. But mostly very average normal. Yet they are some times full of pride and judgment of their fellow humans. The Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists render their own judgment of Christians by their faith protestation.
We, the people, are evolving away from the need for an
organized religion to lead us around like sheep.
Good.
organized religion to lead us around like sheep.
Good.
20
Funny, or maybe not so funny: fewer people act like Christians as well. When you couple a loss of respect for human life with unbridled greed, it become difficult to remember the teaching of Christ, or even those of human decency.
8
Given the way some Christians express their beliefs to the detriment of others in our country, I also consider fewer of them Christian.
11
"The declining number of self-identified Christians could be the result of a political backlash against the association of Christianity with conservative political values."
This makes no sense. There are a plethora of Christian churches (Episcopal, Methodist, Congregationalist, one branch of the Lutherans, one branch of the Presbyterians, and others) that have very liberal values. So if you are unhappy with your Southern Baptist Church, you walk three blocks and join a Methodist Church.
This makes no sense. There are a plethora of Christian churches (Episcopal, Methodist, Congregationalist, one branch of the Lutherans, one branch of the Presbyterians, and others) that have very liberal values. So if you are unhappy with your Southern Baptist Church, you walk three blocks and join a Methodist Church.
3
I agree with you. But if you read just a smattering of the comments here you can see that many, many people think that Christian = conservative and that we all believe that God is an "old white man", are incapable of critical thinking, reject evolution, etc etc. There's very little acceptance of the relevance of a life of faith for an educated and progressively-minded person.
1
Christianity as a practised religion has largely died out in Europe. It has been replaced with a vigorously applied, imported faith (think Charlie Hebdo). You may think decline of Christianity = decline in intolerance/hatred, but I am not so sure.
2
The next generation may not learn enough math and science but enough the require proof of supernatural claims. Wonderful news. Thank you Hubble.
5
Religions have always been merchants of hatred. We see it every day in the Middle East with the Shiite Sunni turmoil. Christianity experienced the same conflict with the Thirty Year War in Europe in which roughly 40% of all German speaking people died. Not only were Protestants and Catholics killing each other, the Lutherans and Calvinists were killing each other over a dispute of whether the Eucharist "is" or "represents" the body and blood of Jesus.
Religions have an upside, but most assuredly, religions can do great harm and have a huge downside risk to any society.
Religions have an upside, but most assuredly, religions can do great harm and have a huge downside risk to any society.
20
My departure from Christianity began when evangelicals stopped being a religion and became a political party.
41
Christianity isn't dependent on evangelicals: It's based on Christ. You can reject evangelicals, but do you reject Christ?
Many of us do. Many of us don't give it a second thought.
I have to believe the decline might have something to do with the fact that what has become known as "being Christian" is pretty repugnant to many thinking, feeling, tolerant, open-minded individuals. I consider myself a Christian because I try my best to actually follow the teachings of Christ and his examples of how to treat others. Too many "Christians" in the U.S. - most of the "Conservative Christian" types - are mired in the Old Testament. All the discriminatory, harsh, punitive, self-righteous, divisive dogma of the Old Testament seems to be what many of them believe in most passionately. "Hate thy neighbor for being different!" What is ironic is that so many of them scream their paranoia about Sharia Law sneaking into our country and taking over the courts, but they are doing everything they can to shove the Old Testament into our laws and courtrooms! Different book, same effect!
21
In my case, I just thought that since my wages and living standards were approaching those associated with Indian or Chinese peasants, it would be a better fit to switch from Christianity to Hinduism or Buddhism.
10
I think the article highlights a lot of the reasons people are leaving churches and declaring themselves to be non Christian, but I think if you look at the broader picture, I think it is because the churches no longer work for them in their lives. How as an educated person would you go near a faith that (rightfully or wrongfully) has become associated with stupid thinking like the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is a lie? More importantly, both liberal and conservative churches have failed to become a center of people's lives, something that feeds them. Most churches these days seem more concerned with ideas or with dogma then people, and it hurts them. I belonged to a very liberal church, that encouraged questioning, that was LGBT friendly, you name it, but in the end it fell short because it didn't promote community. The church was full of a lot of people who had had hard times, for being gay, in recovery, you name it, and they were seeking fellowship and community, but what they ended up was a church where everything was a cause or was all theoretical. Rather than seeing the pain of a transgender person who just lost their family, they saw a cause. As one gay couple, friends of mine, said "I can get a lot more on a Sunday morning reading the NY Times and enjoying brunch"
14
Now in my mid-70s, I grew up in a nominally Protestant but non-churchgoing family, and graduated from a Protestant-affiliated secondary school. Married to a man of similar background (both New Englanders), I spent 20 years, from my 50s, "trying" to be an Episcopalian. Worked quite hard at it. We found ourselves among California's redwoods one Sunday: wow, this feels better than church! The beginning of the end of church going, "believing in" the Christianity we found somehow appealing. No longer. I'm still in an anti-Christian phase ("This too shall pass"), and uninterested in the church, any church, any organized religion, anything other than the Golden Rule. Surely, this comes from my background, but I'm content not to consider whether I "believe in" any god, or any credo other than the Golden Rule. A good number of our friends are in similar positions. We can still attend funerals & weddings, and "participate" in the rituals. Religious ritual used to be important for both of us, but now we find pleasure, solace, in nature & friends. Oh yes, and we live near the ocean, and in the country. Enough for us.
15
I was raised as an Episcopalian, but even before I went to college I began to re-evaluate the worth of organized religion. By the time I arrived at college I was for all intent and purposes an agnostic. Later when my father passed away and the Episcopal Church gave us a price list for various funeral related expenses I told them where to go and haven't look back to religion since.
6
The U.S. has long been considered a Christian nation by itself and the rest of the world. That political parties would attempt to co-opt Christianity to increase their ranks and power status is just part of opportunistic system. Now the GOP has doubled- and tripled-down on this policy of effectively equating the cross with its policies - and no small wonder "believers" are starting to seriously drift away.
11
In recent decades it has become clear that we live on a small insignificant planet in one solar system among hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy. And there are hundreds of billions of galaxies. On our own tiny planet there are several groups of humans, a species not well suited for long term survival, who claim to be God's chosen. And we think we are made in the image of God. Such hubris is no longer sane or acceptable to an increasing number of people.
28
I am grateful for this news. I suspect that the decline in religious observance and self-identification as Christian means a generalized recognition of the limits of religious thinking, and the kinds of reactionary, unthinking morality it tends to engender. It may not be widely acknowledged, but secular humanism has come quite far in the last few decades in defining human rights and dignity on the grounds of being, not of faith, and it is on these grounds that we've made progress on the fronts of civil rights, gender equality, LGBT recognition, workers rights, and the varieties of economic exploitation that reduce people's life chances. I think that by slowly weaning ourselves of a set of beliefs that rest on some unknowable, inscrutable father figure, and ultimately allows us to act in unprincipled ways as long as we maintain our religious affiliation, we can begin to think ethically and do the work that needs be done to have lives that are promising.
19
I'm not opposed to pursuing a spiritual life in theory, but the idea of being expected to give up my Sundays on a weekly basis seems intolerable to me. I think one major factor in the decline is that as the work/life balance of Americans continues to erode, weekends are becoming increasingly precious.
6
I don't understand how non-affiliation means not Christian. If you believe in God and that Jesus is the messiah, then you are a Christian.
This goes along with the nonsense to those of us who are not Christian that going from being RC to Evangelical means changing your religion. No it doesn't. The Catholics and Protestants and Eastern Orthodox all attacked and/or killed Jews for the same reason--they wouldn't accept Jesus as the messiah. Even today missionaries still try to convert "non-believers" to the worship of Jesus.
So as long as you are not an atheist or have not affirmatively converted to another religion you are a Christian.
This goes along with the nonsense to those of us who are not Christian that going from being RC to Evangelical means changing your religion. No it doesn't. The Catholics and Protestants and Eastern Orthodox all attacked and/or killed Jews for the same reason--they wouldn't accept Jesus as the messiah. Even today missionaries still try to convert "non-believers" to the worship of Jesus.
So as long as you are not an atheist or have not affirmatively converted to another religion you are a Christian.
4
No, that is incorrect.
There are lots of reasons that church attendance is down and that people no longer consider themselves Christian. One is people do not want to dedicate the time and effort into supporting a church, especially if they find the organization in conflict with their political views or sports events. Another is that as church populations got older they were more inclined to support programs for elderly parishioners over programs like daycare or teen activities, which would have sustained attendance.
Mobility also was a factor. We have moved from the day when a child grew up attending a church, was married in that same church and planned to have their funeral there. Now many people live thousands of miles from the church they last attended regularly. Being away allows us to forget the power of a great sermon, or a choir's inspiration.
Faith is a difficult concept because it can be used to defraud the fool and no one wants to be a fool. The idea that miracles stopped occurring when science started measuring certainly raises questions about faith in some church beliefs.
Personally, I still consider myself a Christian, understand there are things in this world that I do not comprehend and that there might be more to life than what is measured quantitatively. I don't think you have to be Christian to be good, but I do think you need to believe there are more important things than just our self for the world to be a better place.
Mobility also was a factor. We have moved from the day when a child grew up attending a church, was married in that same church and planned to have their funeral there. Now many people live thousands of miles from the church they last attended regularly. Being away allows us to forget the power of a great sermon, or a choir's inspiration.
Faith is a difficult concept because it can be used to defraud the fool and no one wants to be a fool. The idea that miracles stopped occurring when science started measuring certainly raises questions about faith in some church beliefs.
Personally, I still consider myself a Christian, understand there are things in this world that I do not comprehend and that there might be more to life than what is measured quantitatively. I don't think you have to be Christian to be good, but I do think you need to believe there are more important things than just our self for the world to be a better place.
15
As Jim White sings it: ''A bar is just a church where they serve beer.''
This is inaccurate. I am a Christian who goes to a non denominational church. I would have answered unafilliated because our church is not Protestant nor Catholic as would our young adult children. The data actually shows that believers are turning from organized religion to the growing non denominational churchs. If you add up the losses in the organized religions to the increases in unafilliated they are almost exactly the same.
3
I just looked at the questionnaire used. They included non-denominational churches like yours as Christian. Non-affiliated means either atheistic or not affilated with any church, mosque, synagogue, or temple of any kind. Don't make such assumptions without checking the actual definitions used in the survey. Pew has been surveying religious attitudes for some time, and they are thoughtful in asking questions.
12
I was looking at the graph that this article posted in my comment. Even with looking at the full data I am not sure where I would have answered the question. I am neither a Protestant or a "other Christian", maybe I am missing it but I didn't see an option to answer non denominational. While I am sure Christianity is on the decline, why wouldn't it be since it is considered a bad thing by the mainstream media and if you say you are you are met with abuse and ridicule. Until these studies have an option for non denominational Christians, it is flawed. I also think that making the assumption that those raised as Catholic or Protestant who no longer claim that now don't believe in God at all is a leap. There is a better in my opinion analysis of this survey in The Atlantic Journal.
About time.
22
Thank god
12
My respect for Jesus and his words is precisely why I don't consider myself a "Christian." From what I can see, those who proclaim their faith the loudest have strayed the farthest from the spirit.
37
As long as you have a Catholic Church where 14 year old boys are considered sexual toys, where women employees play second fiddle, and where some one billion followers are told by single priests what marriage is all about I take a pass.
27
The Catholic Church does not consider 14 year old boys sexual toys. Some men who claim to be Christian and yet are priests, have done this - estimates are about 1% of total priests. And, unlike in the past, the majority of women employees are not regarded as second fiddle (as if being a priest was first fiddle), and not only unmarried priests tell couples what marriage is all about. Pre-marriage classes for Catholic couples are usually conducted by other Catholic couples.
1
Could the decline be a result of so many "Christians" or people from other religious denominations hating, discriminating, abusing, murdering or denying scientific or technological improvements to our daily lives, just because of their religious believes? I, for one, call myself a human being...
17
Is this not merely a recognition of reality? In most cases, it seems that "American Christian" is a contradiction in terms. The official religion of the USA (yes, there is one) is the USA itself, a nation uniquely blessed by God to show the rest of us how it should be done. Look at the hatred and bile frequently expressed towards the present President by so many alleged "Christians" - where is this in Christianity The Real Thing? I believe some commentators now make a distinction between "Christianity" and "Christianism".
10
The topic of religion always brings out both the ignorance and disfavor of so-called secular readers. Every gripe that these readers have been harboring in wait for the next NY Times to display its non-believer status comes out and the repetition gets really boring. The mundane, uninformed nature of these anti-religion statements spread bias and misinformation. Left brain/limited brain is the whole brain as far as these readers are concerned.
3
As long as organized so-called christian "religions" in this country continue to affiliate themselves with right wing politicized groups that spread hatred, intolerance, and bigotry, christian "religions" will continue to slide into irrelevance in this country and around the world -- and rightfully so!
40
Pope Francis plans to address Congress in September. Do you expect him to spout hatred, intolerance, and bigotry?
1
its a statistic. that's all it is. not really an opportunity for people to make generalizations about how good or bad religion is.
7
I just have to respond to this because automatically dismissing something as a 'statistic' is just wrongheaded thinking. How about the statistics that say that smoking tends to shorten your lifespan, shall we just dismiss that as a generalization and do nothing to prevent kids from getting addicted to tobacco?
I think the "unaffiliated' ranks particularly among the young are increasing in part because of the lack of a major voice of mainline Christians on the important national issues of the day.
The media treats Christians as if the only issues that they are concerned about are gay marriage and abortion. And the voices heard on these issues tend to be mostly conservative Evangelicals, who make up a minority of the various Protestant denominations.
Because of this many young people are seeking a Christianity that is engaged with the issues of the environment, social justice and war and peace. If that's not available from the main denominations it's understandable that they would identify themselves differently.
The media treats Christians as if the only issues that they are concerned about are gay marriage and abortion. And the voices heard on these issues tend to be mostly conservative Evangelicals, who make up a minority of the various Protestant denominations.
Because of this many young people are seeking a Christianity that is engaged with the issues of the environment, social justice and war and peace. If that's not available from the main denominations it's understandable that they would identify themselves differently.
7
Most religions draw upon some excellent principles which humanity has found enhance life's experience. Do not steal, Do not murder, Do not covet, Honor your Father and Mother, Treat others as you would like to be treated and so on. The vast majority of humanity adhere to these and similar principles. It is when such principles get co opted by a group that considers itself superior to all others that the trouble begins. Claiming to be of a certain faith and actually adhering to such guiding principles too often does not happen as some attempt to use their self assumed superiority for personal advantage. It does not take an organized religion to live by humanitarian principles. But, an organized religion is usually at the heart of the bigotry, hate, discrimination and intolerance that plagues humanity. People are moving away from that.
17
The findings of modern social science suggest you may not be entirely correct. In his recent book, "Our Kids," Professor Robert Putnam summarizes:
""Weekly churchgoers are two to three times more likely to volunteer to help the poor and young people than are non churchgoers, holding other things constant, and are much more likely to contribute financially to those causes. This religious edge appears for volunteering and giving through secular organizations, as well as volunteering and giving through religious organizations." pp 223-24"
""Weekly churchgoers are two to three times more likely to volunteer to help the poor and young people than are non churchgoers, holding other things constant, and are much more likely to contribute financially to those causes. This religious edge appears for volunteering and giving through secular organizations, as well as volunteering and giving through religious organizations." pp 223-24"
3
Once again. I maintain that you do not need to be a member of an organized religion to practice the good principles of humanity. There are a myriad number of ways to help a fellow human being. It does not need to be "organized" by somebody. Too often the "organized" help comes with strings attached. I do not dispute the good works of secular and religious organizations. Much of the good works of individuals goes unheralded and many prefer it that way.
Religion is a form of a drug. Marx got it right. When used in moderation it can be a great thing when abused like in the middle east it is a horror story.
IMO, that is one of the reasons religion is declining in this country. Americans see the horror story it can create when you join it...it can easily be abused like any other drug...better to stay away from it...
IMO, that is one of the reasons religion is declining in this country. Americans see the horror story it can create when you join it...it can easily be abused like any other drug...better to stay away from it...
13
Starting way back in the 1970s and 80s, the fundamentalists and evangelicals co-opted the word "Christian" to mean their narrow, limited, mean, conservative vision of Christianity, which as we know is quite far from the teachings of Jesus Christ. I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church. Would I want to identify as Christian? Yes, because that's how I was raised and that conforms with my general beliefs. But no, absolutely not, when I consider "Christian" as the harsh, narrow religion that Falwell, Robertson and all their culture warrior followers define it as.
31
I found it interesting when the writer Andrew Sullivan, who is Catholic, distinguished between Christian and Christianist for just the reasons you stated. I liked it that using that term acknowledges that there is a difference between a cultural identification and actual requirements of a spiritual tradition. Often they are polar opposites.
Paraphrasing Twain: most people get their religion from their parents and never thought deeply about their beliefs. The parents likewise inherited their religion from their ancestors, and none of these beliefs was ever questioned meaningfully. To the extent that a thing has value, examination will not cause it to be rejected, but a wise person after careful thought abandons a worthless bauble.
15
And the decline of society continues...
3
Compared to what and when?? And where?
As an older person in the process of becoming far less engaged at church, I think you've skipped the most obvious reason that people are leaving.
Thinking people in all walks of life find it impossible to accept very traditional religious beliefs because they just don't make sense, given everything else we know. In my own parish church, less traditional perspectives were welcome for a long time. Now, however, the most conservative elements of the parish have given us a dean (and the younger clergy that he has hired) who are extremely conservative, who even explicitly preach that it is not our business to think or speculate but to just do what the Bible says to do. Well, I haven't been able to accept Bronze Age sheepherder theology and moral values for the past 50 years and won't start now. At this point, the effort to maintain a believable theology in a church community simply seems like more trouble than it is worth.
Thinking people in all walks of life find it impossible to accept very traditional religious beliefs because they just don't make sense, given everything else we know. In my own parish church, less traditional perspectives were welcome for a long time. Now, however, the most conservative elements of the parish have given us a dean (and the younger clergy that he has hired) who are extremely conservative, who even explicitly preach that it is not our business to think or speculate but to just do what the Bible says to do. Well, I haven't been able to accept Bronze Age sheepherder theology and moral values for the past 50 years and won't start now. At this point, the effort to maintain a believable theology in a church community simply seems like more trouble than it is worth.
48
Good news for once!
21
No surprises here as all of this was foretold in the book of Matthew:
While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
4
Jesus also said in Matthew 19:21 that "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." However, I probably took that out of context.
6
Yes, "Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; "
And these are the Republicans, who teach us to belittle and judge our neighbors, while bombing and invading other countries, and attacking the idea that we should welcome the stranger and help the least of these by drawing upon the excess gifts of those with great material wealth.
And these are the Republicans, who teach us to belittle and judge our neighbors, while bombing and invading other countries, and attacking the idea that we should welcome the stranger and help the least of these by drawing upon the excess gifts of those with great material wealth.
3
I think some lady was screaming that and waving her Bible at people on the #2 train one morning when I was on my way to work. I believe she may have single-handedly contributed several percentage points to the decline reported in this article.
1
The vigorous, culturally prominent work of atheist writers like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens et al. must be having an effect also.
Now "atheist" is an identity that you can read about, discuss with others, etc. It wasn't like that twenty years ago. There may have always been a fair number of people who would be atheists if that slot had clearly existed culturally. Now that it does, instead of saying "I don't know, maybe I believe," they're free to identify themselves with the ideas and positions of the New Atheists.
The world and national prominence of gun-waving, bomb-throwing religious fanatics of course leads people to embrace their own atheism too.
Now "atheist" is an identity that you can read about, discuss with others, etc. It wasn't like that twenty years ago. There may have always been a fair number of people who would be atheists if that slot had clearly existed culturally. Now that it does, instead of saying "I don't know, maybe I believe," they're free to identify themselves with the ideas and positions of the New Atheists.
The world and national prominence of gun-waving, bomb-throwing religious fanatics of course leads people to embrace their own atheism too.
7
Bizarre that people suggest religion improves society when the evidence from the US proves otherwise. Not only do Evangelical Americans have worse numbers on a whole raft of social criteria than non-Evangelicals, so does the US as a whole.
American is the most religious nation in the OECD, and has the worst numbers for every social ill you can think of from homicide to drug addiction to child poverty to teen pregnancy to STDs.
American is the most religious nation in the OECD, and has the worst numbers for every social ill you can think of from homicide to drug addiction to child poverty to teen pregnancy to STDs.
30
And now God's Own Party in Colorado has de-funded superbly effective programs for reducing teen pregnancies and abortions.
If birth control is off the table, do all of those people abstain?
If birth control is off the table, do all of those people abstain?
Growing up, my family was Catholic. Fortunately the spell was broken with me from the beginning. I never bought into it. I have embraced the writings of Hitchens, Dennett, Dawkins and De Grasse Tyson in recent years. Freedom from religion should be considered a great accomplishment, and passing such freedom on to one's children even better
23
No mention of actual "faith"
I think that finally more people are just not believing in fairy tales.
I think that finally more people are just not believing in fairy tales.
16
The atheist, agnostic, unaffiliated, and none-of-the-above group might be growing but how about its numbers in Congress and the state legislatures?
I don't have the financial backing of the Pew Trusts so rather than poll, all
I can do is guess: legislators, state and federal, are still overwhelmingly
openly and notoriously religious. That guess is corroborated by the recent
anti-gay laws, ostensibly pro-religious, passed in Indiana and Arkansas. That
guess is also corroborated by the flaunting by all the declared presidential
candidates, except Sen Sanders, who is Jewish, of their Christian bona fides.
I don't have the financial backing of the Pew Trusts so rather than poll, all
I can do is guess: legislators, state and federal, are still overwhelmingly
openly and notoriously religious. That guess is corroborated by the recent
anti-gay laws, ostensibly pro-religious, passed in Indiana and Arkansas. That
guess is also corroborated by the flaunting by all the declared presidential
candidates, except Sen Sanders, who is Jewish, of their Christian bona fides.
12
Religion is the stalking horse that has turned legal language on its head, beginning with the specific prohibition of faith based legislation embodied in "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
This can't be unexpected. I'm one of those "converts" to atheism after 12 years of Catholic education. What I heard on Sundays sounded mean spirited and divisive, exactly like the political element I tried to distance myself from.
I do still throw out the occasional "What would Jesus do?" but don't miss the church. Do wonder hat to say when people sneeze though.
I do still throw out the occasional "What would Jesus do?" but don't miss the church. Do wonder hat to say when people sneeze though.
13
"Ge-farnensnoozin"
4
Say, 'cover your mouth, I don't want your cold.' Or, 'would you like a tissue?' Or, 'have you tried anti-allergy medicines?'
The sneezing thing dates from the Black Plague, the last great motivator for the faith that the Church sorely misses.
The sneezing thing dates from the Black Plague, the last great motivator for the faith that the Church sorely misses.
8
I too am an atheist but have been raised to comment when someone sneezes. I use the latino tradition of saying (i.e. wishing for the person sneezing) Salud (health) the first sneeze, Dinero (money) the second, and Amor (love) the third.
2
Evidently more and more people are coming to understand that claiming to know what God or dead people think about topical human concerns is just taking the name of God in vain.
10
The fundamentalist Christians have trumpeted the idea that only they are true Christians. Then they associate themselves with such causes as anti- environmental science, anti-evolutionary science, anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-contraception, one might almost say anti-sex. They are pro-gun, pro-war, and pro-death penalty. They have racially separated schools. They believe in the absolute historical and scientific inerrancy of the Bible. Finally, they find themselves in bed with the most conservative of conservative politicians.
If you stop to think about it, there's got to be a lot of people who have traditionally thought of themselves as Christian, but who don't want to be associated with the thing that Christianity has become.
If you stop to think about it, there's got to be a lot of people who have traditionally thought of themselves as Christian, but who don't want to be associated with the thing that Christianity has become.
17
You have described my dilemma to a "T".
and if only those that behaved according to the teachings of Christ got to call themselves Christians, then the percentage would be even lower. As a former church-going Catholic who now abhors organized religion of any kind, I look forward to the fewer and fewer people associating with a religion and more with a code of behavior. Religion has not done much to improve the world, sadly.
11
The most refreshing moment of Hillary Clinton's announcement video was the ending, when I realized that she had neither name-checked God nor high-fived Jesus during her presentation.
Contrast her sensible and realistic approach to the current crop of lockstep GOP presidential wannabees, none of whom will publicly admit that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. By turning their backs on reality in favor of the most demented readings of the Bible, the GOP has turned its back to America.
Contrast her sensible and realistic approach to the current crop of lockstep GOP presidential wannabees, none of whom will publicly admit that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. By turning their backs on reality in favor of the most demented readings of the Bible, the GOP has turned its back to America.
11
Thank god
5
First of all, that 70 percent number was always inflated. It used to be that people used Christian as a synonym for gentile, or because they were raised "in the church." Jesus gave one definition for becoming a Christian: He told Nicodemus, you must be born again. He said The wind blows where it will and nobody knows where it goes, so it is with the Spirit. Christianity is a full-fledged devotion to God through His son Jesus. It is believing in a Person, and coming into Spiritual relationship and communion with God through Him. Anything less may be "religious" but it's not Christianity. What is happening is that people are understanding that they are "other" and not truly Christians.
3
I am looking forward to the day when an elected official is sworn into office they don't place their hand on some religious tract.
30
A majority of the people I know consider themselves atheists. Many of them have expressed their disappointment in the church's false promises of afterlife and other miraculous powers that only "men of the robe" claim to have. and say that after closer examination of such things they just couldn't listen to it anymore. Several friends now resent the time they wasted attending church, saying they get much more out of reading the latest news about astronomy and other sciences. My own opinion is that we should understand as much as we can about the world we live in rather than trust anyone who claims to know more about the spiritual world and less about the science that governs our world.
10
The intolerance of the right wing is certainly a factor, and their lack of true Christianity while loudly proclaiming they are Christian is striking. This applies across the board: the disdain for the poor, the attempts to slash basic safety net programs such as food for children, and the constant attacks on women. When I was seriously considering going back to the Catholic Church, the local bishop wrote a letter to the editor that was anti-abortion and basically pro-Republican.
There is a separation of church and state in this country, and too many have now forgotten it. Religious authorities should absolutely stay out of politics and attend to the spiritual needs of their communities instead of attacking so many.
There is a separation of church and state in this country, and too many have now forgotten it. Religious authorities should absolutely stay out of politics and attend to the spiritual needs of their communities instead of attacking so many.
14
How strange that the (revolutionary) teachings of Jesus about caring for the poor and disenfranchised have been turned into a quasi-political brand affiliated with the most right-wing doctrines of self-interested capitalism, and the rejection of those who are minorities within the larger culture (immigrants, gays, etc.) I wonder if Jesus would count himself a "Christian" in this context?
27
Not a moment too soon.
5
This "boomer" Christian, read Catholic, has a strong faith, but it is mine. It is not to be used for political purposes or any other secular one. Part of the problem with the word "Christian" today, isn't Christ, but the right wingers who attempted to forces their own misguided Christianity upon others.
20
Amen. The true Christians that I know don't go around talking about it, they quietly live their faith and follow the teachings of Christ, not the rants of some right wing politician.
If anything, younger folks are not accepting superstition and the supernatural to rule their lives, that they can be moral and upstanding citizens without all the trappings of the business of religions. They also see the hypocrisy associated with religious "beliefs", that what they see is "religious" people simply don't practice their religious beliefs.
20
If there were an Afterlife, Christopher Hitchens would be smiling right now.
3
I guess more and more people are conquering their opiate addiction.
14
I am a liberal Democrat, and am happy with the UCC church which I attend, which has a progressive approach to issues of the day (including gay marriage), and which offers a warm welcome to all of its members. I would be more philosophical about the often strident approach to personal morality and politics exhibited by evangelical churches were it not for the fact that their style has probably served to diminish the appeal of Christianity as a whole to my fellow progressives. The harshest self-proclaimed Christian politicians often seem to receive the greatest media attention. This is a great loss, since our faith actually has a lot to offer progressives, in providing spiritual, intellectual, and emotional support.
10
My anecdotal experience tells me that while there are less people affiliated with organized religion, I see many of the people I grew up with who were reform Jews who are now Orthodox. Many Catholics who are now fundamental Christians and while I have no personal experience it appears that many parents who considered themselves Muslims but were integrated into society much like Jews and Christians appear to have children that are far more dogmatically religious than their parents.
I suspect most older people identify with a particular religion because they were born into it. It appears the generation that is following mine are making choices beyond being born into it. The question is will they be better to each other because of it or will they turn on each other with more viciousness, death and destruction?
What I haven't seen through my life is spiritual awakening that recognizes the death and destruction we are leaving in our wake. I'm hopeful the next generation embraces pacifism as part of their spiritual awakening whatever form that takes.
I suspect most older people identify with a particular religion because they were born into it. It appears the generation that is following mine are making choices beyond being born into it. The question is will they be better to each other because of it or will they turn on each other with more viciousness, death and destruction?
What I haven't seen through my life is spiritual awakening that recognizes the death and destruction we are leaving in our wake. I'm hopeful the next generation embraces pacifism as part of their spiritual awakening whatever form that takes.
2
Let's not run away from the term "Christian" just because media outlets have allowed the Right to define and sully the term.I am saddened and disappointed that beginning in 1980 the definition of the term "Christian" was usurped by the Religious Right. There are plenty of Progressive Christians out there who do not get media coverage. They even vote for liberal candidates (and no abortion rights does not dictate every Christian's voting preference).
The evolution of our democracy peaked with the Great Society programs in the 1960s but sadly those Christian political policies were systematically dismantled in the 1980s by the clever Reagan cabal and in the 1990s their progeny further manipulated the meaning of the term and perverted the vary values that Jesus proclaimed. The true Christian values would arguably include: helping the poor and undervalued with social safety nets; providing free and quality education to all US citizens, rich and poor; reigning in the excesses of greed and capitalism through financial regulation; fighting against the increasingly militarized and surveilled state that the US has become. These fights define the true Christian. Christians should reclaim their name and they should be welcomed and heard at the political table in our secular (rightly so) nation.
The evolution of our democracy peaked with the Great Society programs in the 1960s but sadly those Christian political policies were systematically dismantled in the 1980s by the clever Reagan cabal and in the 1990s their progeny further manipulated the meaning of the term and perverted the vary values that Jesus proclaimed. The true Christian values would arguably include: helping the poor and undervalued with social safety nets; providing free and quality education to all US citizens, rich and poor; reigning in the excesses of greed and capitalism through financial regulation; fighting against the increasingly militarized and surveilled state that the US has become. These fights define the true Christian. Christians should reclaim their name and they should be welcomed and heard at the political table in our secular (rightly so) nation.
4
The use of religions as a tool to control people is what turned me off to it decades ago. Being an insider, however you might obtain the status, allowed you to bypass certain rules that the common members had to adhere to or be ostracized.
It has been my experience those who convert or "find Jesus" tend to have issues that they can not deal with on their own. This weakness is transformed into vehement negativity towards others who still partake in the hated activity(s).
The only positive thing in Christianity in recent years has been Pope Francis. He has come as close to the message of the New Testament as I can recall in my 50 some odd years. While I would stand with him on many issues, he would not draw me back into "organized religion". That boat has sailed...
It has been my experience those who convert or "find Jesus" tend to have issues that they can not deal with on their own. This weakness is transformed into vehement negativity towards others who still partake in the hated activity(s).
The only positive thing in Christianity in recent years has been Pope Francis. He has come as close to the message of the New Testament as I can recall in my 50 some odd years. While I would stand with him on many issues, he would not draw me back into "organized religion". That boat has sailed...
10
It's not necessary to adhere to a dogma in order to be a person of deep faith in God, however one conceptualizes the Creator. People may be expressing a great distaste for labels, and not feel compelled to tell anyone else about their own internal spiritual life.
2
Agree - but that's not what the data is saying. There is a significant slice of the population (~8%) who don't label themselves as atheists - probably because the term still has negative connotations? - yet who say they have no specific religion AND believe religion is not important.
I think a preferential tax status for community improvement organizations is a reasonable public policy, I just don't think the preferences should be conditional on a religious rationale for the organizations.
5
I don't even know how we're defining Christian. Is "Christian" a re-born thing? OR is it anyone who practices a faith based in Jesus? I mean, if I identify as Catholic for the purposes of the survey, am I Christian? If I say I'm Presbyterian, am I Christian?
White Evangelicals are clearly Christians. then the article deflates to Catholics, non-evangelical white Protestants... omg.
There is a clear implication that "Christian" is now a new political party. Please don't let that be true!
White Evangelicals are clearly Christians. then the article deflates to Catholics, non-evangelical white Protestants... omg.
There is a clear implication that "Christian" is now a new political party. Please don't let that be true!
1
I believe the "re-born" vs. "Christ follower" difference you are pointing out is handled in the survey as "evangelical protestant" and "mainline protestant.
Catholics and Presbyterians are "Christian" under the "followers of Christ's teachings" definition. But, as you correctly point out, evangelical Christian sects claim only people who have been "born again" are true Christians.
Like almost everything in religion it comes down to the "like me, good, not like me, bad" mindset that permeates and guides all religious thought and action.
Catholics and Presbyterians are "Christian" under the "followers of Christ's teachings" definition. But, as you correctly point out, evangelical Christian sects claim only people who have been "born again" are true Christians.
Like almost everything in religion it comes down to the "like me, good, not like me, bad" mindset that permeates and guides all religious thought and action.
2
I believe there was a surge in religiosity after the terror of 2001 and the belief that we were being attacked by outside forces that threatened our country's existence. People were fearful and not sure what would happen so they turned top religious belief to bolster themselves against the "unknown." Since then that fear has lessened and the nastiness of religion has grown in political discourse and religion has become a weapon itself against anyone who disagrees with the so-called doctrine. It turns off the young people who are looking for a more enlightened mindset. At least that's the way it is everywhere but the good old Bible Belt where it still is very strong and propels the very air we breathe but things are beginning to move forward even here in the backward views.
3
This is understandable as French Bishop Monseigneur Lefebvre explained us how the faith was distorted by the Church itself. Anyone can look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzvNrX-FTyk and do research on what told us Monseigneur Lefebvre in what's going on in the Vatican.
We should still believe in the Church, but be aware that the liturgy has been revised. Christians must be more faithful than ever and learn about Fraternity Saint Pie X for instance which doesn't want a schism but teach the genuine values of our religion.
We should still believe in the Church, but be aware that the liturgy has been revised. Christians must be more faithful than ever and learn about Fraternity Saint Pie X for instance which doesn't want a schism but teach the genuine values of our religion.
Man cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen.
Montaigne
Montaigne
8
Your comment reminded me of Mare de France's quote, “Man created God in his image: intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.”
3
It is better that Christianity and Judaism remove the fake people, so this is a good thing.
I am a very religious Jewish person and we have the same issue in Judaism. People may call themselves Christian or Jewish, but actually have no relationship with the Creator at all. It is better that these people admit it.
Only about 5% of Jews observe the laws which we are commanded to observe, similarly people who do not follow the teaching of Jesus still call themselves Christian.
Since we are speaking of Christianity, Jesus actually predicts this "removal of the fake" in the New Testament.
Luke 18:8 "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
I am a very religious Jewish person and we have the same issue in Judaism. People may call themselves Christian or Jewish, but actually have no relationship with the Creator at all. It is better that these people admit it.
Only about 5% of Jews observe the laws which we are commanded to observe, similarly people who do not follow the teaching of Jesus still call themselves Christian.
Since we are speaking of Christianity, Jesus actually predicts this "removal of the fake" in the New Testament.
Luke 18:8 "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
1
Can only make comment on the religion I was born into, and raised as a Catholic. Seems obvious while the organization is very large with a lot of influence some serious issues have been apparent for quite sometime. Rules that never changed concerning birth control and divorce, and loss of the sacrements gave cause to many re-evaluating the wisdom of such rules. Then of course if you attended the average Catholic Church on a Sunday attendance was way down and most of those attending were seniors. Then of course the problem with pedophile priest is very discouraging. Catholics I know, still believe in a Go,. In my mind there still good people just fed up.but find their own way to worship
3
So this article could just as easily have been titled, "Christians Still Form Significant Majority in This Country". Fair and balanced reporting NYT?
4
The Times reported on a statiscally cogent suvey done by a reputable group.
How about "Christians Still Form Significant Majority in This Country, But their Numbers Are Dropping." Would that work for you?
1
It's a war on Christmas. Listen to O'Reilly. No more christmas lights on city hall and then come the dark days upon us.
I remember as a child the evangelical television preachers as kind of a national joke: deeply southern, ridiculously zealous and unabashedly groveling for money like side show snake handlers. That they would rise over the decades to become the base of a major political party was unthinkable. But rise they did, to the point where - for the last 20 years - the GOP has marched ever more in lockstep with fundamentalists at the expense of rationality, spewing sanctimonious nonsense rather than losing the Christian vote. Requiring presidential candidates to pass a litmus test of ignorance rather than thinking for themselves lays the foundation for a Christian theocracy wherein "belief" trumps the rule of law. It is completely understandable and frankly, a breath of fresh air that Americans are fleeing churches in droves. It means there's still hope.
15
USA is great nation .Freedom in thinking is making all literate to question their existence and way of life . These are great turns and will bring good results for the world. Only USA citizen have full freedom to think , plan and Act. Many nations people can't think ,can't act.
2
It's nice to see that younger people are wising up so quickly. Imagine no religion, it's easy if you try.
9
So did the author omit Mormons from this study because it blatantly contradicted his data? Or did he omit them because he (perhaps snidely?) doesn't believe they count as Christian? Odd.
2
He also omitted historically black protestant churches, which have had no drop in numbers, according to the Washington Post. I guess Millennials aren't black in Mr. Cohen's view.
2
Undoubtedly. One of the big reasons Mr. Romney lost in 2012 (by 2% of the vote) is that Evangelicals did not see him as Christian. Even worse, the non-religious saw him as belonging to a nutty cult, where adherents wear "funny underwear. My very conservative brother -- a hardcore Sarah Palin supporter! -- refused to vote for Romney "because he is this crazy Mormon". (Palin presumably was NOT crazy.)
Mormonism is one of the fastest growing religions in the nation (and the world). I wonder too if they counted Muslims (growing). Even the Catholic Church is growing fast in other nations.
The US population is growing mostly with hispanics (Catholic) and blacks (Evangelicals and Protestants), so apparently the drop off is in white folks.
Mormonism is one of the fastest growing religions in the nation (and the world). I wonder too if they counted Muslims (growing). Even the Catholic Church is growing fast in other nations.
The US population is growing mostly with hispanics (Catholic) and blacks (Evangelicals and Protestants), so apparently the drop off is in white folks.
1
We're getting less religious?
Thank heaven!
Thank heaven!
4
This is a welcome piece of good news.
5
Stating the obvious (and at the risk of offending 77% of the population) religion has always been a tool used by powerful men to manipulate the masses. Is it any wonder that a party who advocates for the wealthy minority would turn to a block of voters who have demonstrated their willingness to accept nonsense wholesale?
26
I see first hand 'the politicization of religion by American conservatives' in my home state of Texas. As a mainstream republican I find the conservative propensity to mix their hatred of our nation's leaders, contrary to Biblical teachings, suspicion of immigrants, although many, if not most, are Latin American Christians themselves, fear of gays and gay marriage, although many conservatives are divorcees, and by Biblical definition, adulterers themselves, jingoistic military posturing, although few conservatives enlisted in the military following 9-11, disdain of 'socialized' healthcare, although few conservatives have discarded their Medicare cards etc, quite disturbing. Perhaps Christian churches are losing believers due to their inability, or unwillingness, to address the widening gulf between genuine Christian belief, as taught in the New Testament, and the false doctrine espoused by the political extreme right.
9
Let's look at these numbers and look at Baltimore. The first thing out of touch politicians do when there is trouble is contact out of touch religious leaders. Faith Based Initiatives have been a failure because all it does is employ the religious. It adds another layer of bureaucracy to navigate with no increased benefit.
You will not reach the inner city youth by using the 1960's model of the 'Black Church' or rural youth by using the local Baptist church. Neither churches are trusted, believed.
You will not reach the inner city youth by using the 1960's model of the 'Black Church' or rural youth by using the local Baptist church. Neither churches are trusted, believed.
3
Agreed- except it's the preachers who come hand-outstretched to the desperate pols - promising a solution, while just seeking a pay off and infomercial.
Anyone who can read a book or use a computer sooner or later will see the advantages science and reason have brought to the world. Which may
be why Republicans and conservatives are so stingy when it comes to funding for education. Critical thinking isn't in their sermons.
be why Republicans and conservatives are so stingy when it comes to funding for education. Critical thinking isn't in their sermons.
10
Anyone else think this might be directly due to the "New atheists" such as Richard Dawkins? I know he has made a huge impact in the States, and has probably visited every single university over there since 2006 at this point.
2
I think it has more to do with climate denying, pointy headed racist ranting, sexist, money-grubbing, forced-pregnancy obsessed, men of the church.
Thank God !
7
Ending tax exempt status for religious entities in the US , and ending foreign aid to religious nations would make a big difference in advancing peace worldwide. The toxic divisiveness spawned in the world by religions is literally tearing humans apart.
11
Thank god, finally some good news from a poll!
7
According to the OED online, the etymology of 'Christian' is:
'< Latin Chrīstiānus, (in Greek χρῑστιᾱνός , Acts xi. 26), < Chrīstus , χρῑστός Christ n. Introduced with the Renascence in taking the place of the earlier cristen , christen adj. (Compare the Anglo-Norman cristien, found from 12th cent.)' [1]
Go to the Acts and we find:
25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
~ Acts 11:25-26 King James Version (KJV)
Hence, 'Christians' was first used as term by non-Christians - or by those on the point of becoming Christians or recently converted - to refer to those spreading the teachings of the Galilean far away from the Sea of Galilee. This is akin to the term 'Mohammedans' that Philip's was still using in their blue School Atlas in the '70s to refer to those who followed the teachings of Mohammed of Mecca and Medina.
One might naively assume that today a Christian is a person who strives to emulate in every way and every day the example of the Christos. In that case, it is fair to say that there are likely no Christians in the Land of the Free, and there never have been.
1) "Christian, adj. and n." OED Online. Oxford University Press, March 2015. Web. 12 May 2015.
'< Latin Chrīstiānus, (in Greek χρῑστιᾱνός , Acts xi. 26), < Chrīstus , χρῑστός Christ n. Introduced with the Renascence in taking the place of the earlier cristen , christen adj. (Compare the Anglo-Norman cristien, found from 12th cent.)' [1]
Go to the Acts and we find:
25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
~ Acts 11:25-26 King James Version (KJV)
Hence, 'Christians' was first used as term by non-Christians - or by those on the point of becoming Christians or recently converted - to refer to those spreading the teachings of the Galilean far away from the Sea of Galilee. This is akin to the term 'Mohammedans' that Philip's was still using in their blue School Atlas in the '70s to refer to those who followed the teachings of Mohammed of Mecca and Medina.
One might naively assume that today a Christian is a person who strives to emulate in every way and every day the example of the Christos. In that case, it is fair to say that there are likely no Christians in the Land of the Free, and there never have been.
1) "Christian, adj. and n." OED Online. Oxford University Press, March 2015. Web. 12 May 2015.
2
It seems to me that since there was not a non-denominational Christian category, a number of those "unaffiliated" might just be Christians who are not religious enough to consider themselves belonging to a specific sect.
1
Hi Daniel - I believe that's probably true, but only for a small slice. There is a significant piece of the sample who declared themselves "unaffiliated, religion is not important"; which is as close as you get to an agnostic / atheist position without the stigma that society still puts on those labels.
Maybe it's just that being a Christian is closer to the characteristics of ethnicity and tribalism, rather than a sincere devotion to love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, do unto others, and empathy for all. The former needs dogma, authority, and myth, while the latter depends on the humanity of the individual.
We live in an intellectual melting pot, and I don't think Christianity has the intellectual power to compete with modern secular beliefs. But the humanity taught by Jesus does.
We live in an intellectual melting pot, and I don't think Christianity has the intellectual power to compete with modern secular beliefs. But the humanity taught by Jesus does.
8
I do not think I have ever read a more elegant summation of the difference between a "christian" and a person of christ.
I'm going to commit this to quote to memory.
I'm going to commit this to quote to memory.
1
When I hear someone loudly proclaim himself a Christian, my red flag antennae go on high alert. He doth protest too much methinks. He is probably a gun nut, intolerant, anti science, anti feminist, anti government, anti education, anti medical care, of dubious intellect, and generally totally fact averse. In fact, he may be one of the true crazy types such as those who think Obama is invading Texas, and form militias to keep the "Mescans" from any type of parity. The generic term "Christian" has been sullied by identification with those sorts, and one best look carefully behind the proclamation to determine if that person is a "Christian" in name only, or a true Christian.
13
Religion in the hands of politicians becomes a tool for hatred. Religion is just filled with toxicity. Women always are diminished. Always. Violence is accepted. Christianity, as it is now known, worships the NRA's interpretation of the Second Amendment more than the tenets of the New Testament. When a politician announces his religion, I know not to vote for him. "Christian values" is a shorthand term for white male domination.
22
The more Christian Churches reach out to take temporal power the more uncomfortable people become with associating with them. Christian churches and other religious groups (Christians have no monopoly on this desire for power.) are becoming so enamored with political power that they have forgotten the importance of the separation of church and state. Their lust for power and greed has turned them( the leaders) into just another political pressure group who wants to write the laws for our lives while at the same time they avoid paying taxes, get exempted from following laws they don't like and break the law without any real fear of punishment. Its not necessarily a disbelief in the prohuman message of Christ but a disgust with the behavior of the hierarchy and their anti human policies.
10
I used to call myself a Christian even though I belong to no church, because I tried to follow the teachings of Jesus. But my fundamentalist relatives tell me I can't be a true Christian unless I believe all the fairly tales they believe in. So by their definition, I'm not a Christian; and to avoid conflict, I've stopped calling myself one. I expect my story is not unusual. Republicans have narrowed the definition of Christian.
7
Joseph Campbell defined religion as a defense against the requirements of spirituality.
Fundamentalist Christianity in America right now is defined by its total allegiance to the right wing of the GOP, i.e., the State. But the actual message of Christ has nothing to do with their claim on it and should never be conflated with the aggrieved/smug cultural messages associated with outlets like Fox or manipulators of the fold like Karl Rove, who figured out early the value of this block who can be counted on to vote en masse. It is how we ended up with old guys screaming at young women about family planning instead of enjoying their dotage or how we have so called Christian candidates like Huckabee who actually lie about the President as a kind of conservative schtick.
That has nothing to do with compassion and seeing the good in people. I think this is not lost information on the younger folk.
6
There has been a decline in Christianity in the US, which does not surprise me.
But has anyone measured the increase in those who subscribe and are baptized and believe wholeheartedly in the Republican Church?
The members of the RC are unwavering in their belief that Christ himself believes in endless overseas wars, and the rights of all to keep and bear arms. He would, the Republican Church assures us, bless oil pipelines, coal mining, and cutting unemployment, health insurance and other benefits for the undeserving poor.
That Republican Church remains as strong as ever.
But has anyone measured the increase in those who subscribe and are baptized and believe wholeheartedly in the Republican Church?
The members of the RC are unwavering in their belief that Christ himself believes in endless overseas wars, and the rights of all to keep and bear arms. He would, the Republican Church assures us, bless oil pipelines, coal mining, and cutting unemployment, health insurance and other benefits for the undeserving poor.
That Republican Church remains as strong as ever.
9
Calvinism is probably what influences this country's Christianity the most. Calvinism taught that the wealthy are blessed by god and the poor are cursed, getting what they deserve.
1
The principal reason for the decline in Americans 'practicing' a religion, is that 'social networking' and internet based communication have filled its principal role. Not just the need for superficial social contact and association, but sentiment and gossip. Most of the 'attractions' of the church were based upon dominating and controlling the means of social access in many communities. That's mostly vanished except in cult environments. Judaism has grown exponentially in its more orthodox sectors, mainly via propagation. Islam, Hindu and other faiths have grown via immigration.
The Catholic brand has suffered from decades of church hypocrisy and abuse, Pope Francis seems mostly concerned with restoring credibility as a means of attracting his stray flocks.
The evangelical movement alienates ten adults permanently for all its irrational and anti-scientific stupidity for each bright eyed convert it might temporarily attract. Simply put, it's a small tent run by seemingly corrupt and venal white men and authoritarian patriarchal preachers more interested in how to shake out a buck than save a soul. The anti-immigration fervor of the Republican brand so closely allied with the evil-angelicals rejects the very uneducated and vulnerable population most susceptible to its simplistic and superstition based and hysteria driven style.
The Catholic brand has suffered from decades of church hypocrisy and abuse, Pope Francis seems mostly concerned with restoring credibility as a means of attracting his stray flocks.
The evangelical movement alienates ten adults permanently for all its irrational and anti-scientific stupidity for each bright eyed convert it might temporarily attract. Simply put, it's a small tent run by seemingly corrupt and venal white men and authoritarian patriarchal preachers more interested in how to shake out a buck than save a soul. The anti-immigration fervor of the Republican brand so closely allied with the evil-angelicals rejects the very uneducated and vulnerable population most susceptible to its simplistic and superstition based and hysteria driven style.
15
"The report does not offer an explanation for the decline of the Christian population, but the low levels of Christian affiliation among the young, well educated and affluent are consistent with prevailing theories for the rise of the unaffiliated, like the politicization of religion by American conservatives."
By far, in my opinion, this is it. It is hard to justify claiming one is doing the works of Christ, and at the same time call the poor, the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned, the unclad, et al. "takers", "lazy", the "47% that don't pay taxes", and other negative terms. That is, hypocrisy.
How can a person who grew up in a Christian home, went to church and bible study; be taught the works of Christ and how one should lead their life? When their parents, pastors and politicians condemn the very people Christ saw as the most vulnerable?
The message this send is the organized religion is a political tool and its followers pick and choose good works like it is from a Chinese food menu. Then again, their pastors do the same thing by pick and choosing from The Bible.
Even at my age, it is hard to reconcile my faith with politicians and religious leaders. They have corrupted Christ's message for their own personal gain, to belittle the vulnerable and advance a warped agenda.
I am surprise that this survey showed as much affiliated people as it does.
By far, in my opinion, this is it. It is hard to justify claiming one is doing the works of Christ, and at the same time call the poor, the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned, the unclad, et al. "takers", "lazy", the "47% that don't pay taxes", and other negative terms. That is, hypocrisy.
How can a person who grew up in a Christian home, went to church and bible study; be taught the works of Christ and how one should lead their life? When their parents, pastors and politicians condemn the very people Christ saw as the most vulnerable?
The message this send is the organized religion is a political tool and its followers pick and choose good works like it is from a Chinese food menu. Then again, their pastors do the same thing by pick and choosing from The Bible.
Even at my age, it is hard to reconcile my faith with politicians and religious leaders. They have corrupted Christ's message for their own personal gain, to belittle the vulnerable and advance a warped agenda.
I am surprise that this survey showed as much affiliated people as it does.
72
As a Mainline Protestant Christian (Lutheran), Whose faith is very important to me, I agree with you 100%.
Religious views in the political theater was the last straw in my having any affiliation with Christianity. Religious political figures are ignoring the likely impacts climate change science (God promised not to flood again) - and actively preventing scientific research in this area, insuring millions of women and children live in poverty by opposing birth control or teaching safe sex, preaching the culture of wealth and insisting that church goers vote for Republican candidates who reduce taxes for the wealthiest while slashing social services, using religion as a rationale for employers to fire (or not hire or not serve) LGBTQ men and women and women who use birth control, refusing to allow safe abortion, leading women to have unwanted children (more poverty) and possibly look into dangerous means of abortion. I would not vote for an evangelical presidential candidate or any highly religious candidate who wish to impose religious-based laws.
38
"Religious views in the political theater was the last straw in my having any affiliation with Christianity"
Me too. The televangelists of the 80's didn't help either. They took me from lack of belief to outright disgust with Christianity. It's a bell that can't be un-rung.
Me too. The televangelists of the 80's didn't help either. They took me from lack of belief to outright disgust with Christianity. It's a bell that can't be un-rung.
Every Sunday morning my husband and I go for a long, long walk with our two dogs. We hold hands, we talk, we share, we enjoy the simple silence, we listen to the birds, admire the magnificent natural world around us. No interruptions, no showering and dressing and rushing off to church. No one giving us "advice" on how to run our lives and relationships - our connection during the walks with each other and the world is enough. Life is busy - maybe people have realized that organized religion is not the solace they thought. A long walk is all the spirituality we need.
25
Wow! You made my day. *applause*
It's a shame that this article conflates religion with "faith." As Carl Jung once said when asked if he believed in God, "I don't believe; I know." Naturally smart young people today, familiar with both science and superhero myths, easily see through claims that one should believe fantastical tales from centuries past. Yet that in no way means they lack faith in the human imagination, from which both science and superhero myths spring. All they are doing is making a modern, knowing distinction between science and mythology.
4
The notion that any form of ritual, profession, or idolatry could cause a person's personal experience of life to continue past death is truly one of the most preposterous propositions of all time.
89
True - but is there any religion that doesn't sell its adherents on this very proposition?
As Norm Chomsky beautifully explained the emergence of human thought machine 70,000 years back that separated the homospines from other animals. The capacity of generalization is the unique capability of that machine and God is the highest from of generalization in human thought. The book based religions contradicted this generalization process by introducing dogmas that contradict the computational rules. Advance of human society will gradually separate them using generalization rules to 'Christians' and 'none' and 'non-Christian'. This is a routine evolutionary process and can not be stopped. This does not mean God as highest generalization is disappearing from human thought process. The survey brings hope for human society and confirms the evolution of human thought machine.
6
I love Norm Chomsky!
This is good news for America. Christian conservatives vote Republican, who offer no vision or solutions for the problems facing America today. Separating church and state not only is Constitutionally correct, it can only help lead to real debate and hopefully better choices in government policy. Maybe there is hope after all.
76
I predict that Christianity will make a big comeback when we are all economic serfs. After all, wasn't submission to feudal economy what the Roman Catholic Church preached for centuries? thereby undercutting the ability of the peasants/serfs to resist, and enriching the feudal masters and themselves.
11
@comp-
We already have that. The Catholic hierarchy in the US has almost totally ignored the decline of the economic prospects of the 99% with the obscene growth of the 1%, they have stayed silent when Catholic politicians like Paul Ryan espoused the gospel of Ayn Rand (all the while openly threatening politicians who were pro same sex marriage and pro choice), the hierarchy in this country basically allied themselves with the GOP because of their obsession with abortion and sex related issues (and are now nervous that they have a Pope that thinks maybe, just maybe, the faith is not about cheerleading for the well off). The evangelicals are even worse, they now preach a 'prosperity gospel' and from the pulpit, condemn those who criticize the well off and claim that the poor are poor because of government regulation and the lack of 'economic freedom', not greed of international corporations and stockholder management policy, that the rich are blessed and shouldn't be taxed and other drivel. Even young evangelicals are disgusted by this, they see the effects of economic dislocation right in their own backyard and know the causes, and to hear preachers say that Jesus loved capitalism or blessed the rich turns their stomachs, the way that Catholics feel about their leaders.
We already have that. The Catholic hierarchy in the US has almost totally ignored the decline of the economic prospects of the 99% with the obscene growth of the 1%, they have stayed silent when Catholic politicians like Paul Ryan espoused the gospel of Ayn Rand (all the while openly threatening politicians who were pro same sex marriage and pro choice), the hierarchy in this country basically allied themselves with the GOP because of their obsession with abortion and sex related issues (and are now nervous that they have a Pope that thinks maybe, just maybe, the faith is not about cheerleading for the well off). The evangelicals are even worse, they now preach a 'prosperity gospel' and from the pulpit, condemn those who criticize the well off and claim that the poor are poor because of government regulation and the lack of 'economic freedom', not greed of international corporations and stockholder management policy, that the rich are blessed and shouldn't be taxed and other drivel. Even young evangelicals are disgusted by this, they see the effects of economic dislocation right in their own backyard and know the causes, and to hear preachers say that Jesus loved capitalism or blessed the rich turns their stomachs, the way that Catholics feel about their leaders.
1
I totally agree that politics has something to do with this, but in my experience charismatic and evangelical groups also refer to themselves as "Christian" and make a distinction between themselves and people who adhere to other sects—who are "not Christian". So possibly the difference here also relates to this narrow definition of Christianity, and people who might be on the fence deliberately dissociating themselves from it.
6
Spirituality is a beautiful and relevant part of the human experience. Unfortunately, religion has almost nothing to do with it.
88
For all of my 76 years I’ve been hearing about “spirituality,” I seem to lack the gene. I’d really like a thoughtful definition. It seems to me that in most cases when I’ve experienced (been told about) spirituality, it indicates an extraordinary self-satisfaction with ones illogical prejudices and quirks, and the ability to maintain them in the face of fact and/or logic.
The most prominent people calling themselves "Christian" today are extremely hateful toward LGBT people, deny that mankind is influencing climate, want to control woman's bodies, protected rapist priests, believe African American men had to coming when they are shot to death by cops, and are hugely hypocritical in their favoritism of the elite wealthy vs. the needy poor.
All of these are un-American attitudes, so Americans are looking away.
All of these are un-American attitudes, so Americans are looking away.
88
On the one hand, I'm happy that the fog seems to be lifting from people's eyes. You don't have to believe in a bronze-age religion.
On the other hand, I know that many people (maybe even a few readers of the NYT) are lonely and are experiencing hard times in their life. Many people are not strong.
To where do they turn for solace? Not everyone has family or friends nearby. Not everyone has a philosophy of life that helps them navigate the inevitable storms we experience.
Many (not all) of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth have been a great help to many millions. Local congregations provided friendship and support. Of course, not all aspects of church life were good, but so much of it was.
What replaces an active religious life? Hopefully wholesome and moral pursuits and activities, and a mature philosophy of living. But as religion declines, the outcome may not be so happy. Be very careful what you wish for.
On the other hand, I know that many people (maybe even a few readers of the NYT) are lonely and are experiencing hard times in their life. Many people are not strong.
To where do they turn for solace? Not everyone has family or friends nearby. Not everyone has a philosophy of life that helps them navigate the inevitable storms we experience.
Many (not all) of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth have been a great help to many millions. Local congregations provided friendship and support. Of course, not all aspects of church life were good, but so much of it was.
What replaces an active religious life? Hopefully wholesome and moral pursuits and activities, and a mature philosophy of living. But as religion declines, the outcome may not be so happy. Be very careful what you wish for.
15
You can also join a bowling league.
I have a good friend who seemed to lose interest in religion, because the way that it was used by politicians and others to force their views and beliefs on others. She said another factor was the way that the these people would use the pulpit to criticize. As she said once to me: "These are not the Christians that I grew up with."
29
This is good. As Voltaire put it, more or less, men will not stop committing atrocities until they stop believing absurdities.
42
Many Americans are sick and tired of the "culture wars" in which we're supposed to demonize our neighbors and roll back the modern age. As many pastors (and in the Catholic church, bishops and cardinals) have embraced the role of culture warrior leaders, the sort of person who joins a church now likes to get righteous and join the fight against the 20th century.
Meanwhile many of us are opting for a walk at the lake instead.
In most communities in my state, "Christian" and "conservative" are synonymous. Conservatives have been unwilling to recognize the danger in this--the examples of Europe and the Middle East is just lost on them. Meanwhile, a young relative of mine who hoped to teach science and is about to graduate was advised by an older teacher to leave the state. What sort of future do we have when the young science teachers feel they cannot stay?
I am at an age when I'm expected to be "churched up"; but I find more and more friends and relatives my age are joining me, lacing up their hiking boots, and looking for God out on the trail instead.
Meanwhile many of us are opting for a walk at the lake instead.
In most communities in my state, "Christian" and "conservative" are synonymous. Conservatives have been unwilling to recognize the danger in this--the examples of Europe and the Middle East is just lost on them. Meanwhile, a young relative of mine who hoped to teach science and is about to graduate was advised by an older teacher to leave the state. What sort of future do we have when the young science teachers feel they cannot stay?
I am at an age when I'm expected to be "churched up"; but I find more and more friends and relatives my age are joining me, lacing up their hiking boots, and looking for God out on the trail instead.
82
I have walked away from Christianity. I think Jesus was a wonderful, enlightened man who would be horrified at what we have done in his name. I like the nature religions, like shamanism. I don't need a fake miracle of rebirth - all I have to do is look outside the window today to see the rebirth that happens to the Earth every single year.
1
Historically, religion has explained the unexplainable, offered control of the uncontrollable, bestowed identity, dignity and meaning, prescribed morals, and denied death. Science explains more and more and tests the limits of control. Other (nonreligious) affiliations can provide identity, dignity and meaning. The secular sphere seems to be ahead of Catholicism in recognizing the equal (separate is not equal) moral value of women. Widespread scandal has undermined the Church's moral authority as well. Civic society is ahead of Christianity in general in accepting gays. Christianity still denies death, so it still has life in it.
8
Death is part of life. Denying it doesn't invalidate it, it's just stupid. Religion should rethink its business model.
Excellent. To paraphrase Diderot, Americans will never be free until the last conservative Republican is strangled with the bowels of the last religious fundamentalist.
28
I am waiting for day when our politicians stop the nauseating display of falling all over themselves to declare how Christian they are.
91
Don't hold your breath!
1
Nothing pushed me down the path to atheism faster than the religious right's continuing level of vitriol against the gay community. I am gay, and years of listening to the religious right's hate speech against the gay community forced me to question whether the religious beliefs I grew up with were valid and based on fact. I concluded that there was no evidence that God exists, and that religion was nothing more than a dysfunctional denial of reality.
The hate agenda of the religious right, and conservatives in general, have pushed me away from religion and I suspect it has also caused a lot of other people to realize that Karl Marx got at least one thing right: religion is the opiate of the masses.
Give me provable facts, not wishful thinking.
The hate agenda of the religious right, and conservatives in general, have pushed me away from religion and I suspect it has also caused a lot of other people to realize that Karl Marx got at least one thing right: religion is the opiate of the masses.
Give me provable facts, not wishful thinking.
44
And look at other trends during this time:
1) increase in out-of-wedlock births,
2) increase in income inequality,
http://inequality.org/income-inequality/
3) more suicides since 2000,
https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
4) more drug use and abuse, including more deaths from overdose,
http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death...
When you consider the Christianity focuses on families, helping the poor, and promoting life, these trends all make sense. "Secular humanism" may work if people are already wealthy and live in luxury, but it has not translated into helping the poor.
And for the record, there is a big difference between Christianity and the Republican party. If you fail to realize that, then you really don't understand the religion.
1) increase in out-of-wedlock births,
2) increase in income inequality,
http://inequality.org/income-inequality/
3) more suicides since 2000,
https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
4) more drug use and abuse, including more deaths from overdose,
http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death...
When you consider the Christianity focuses on families, helping the poor, and promoting life, these trends all make sense. "Secular humanism" may work if people are already wealthy and live in luxury, but it has not translated into helping the poor.
And for the record, there is a big difference between Christianity and the Republican party. If you fail to realize that, then you really don't understand the religion.
11
Christianity and Republicanism are both faith-based and ascribe great value to adhering to beliefs that defy facts and reason.
1
Neither do the "christians"
Nice try but it's the economic policies of right wing politicians who have aligned themselves with Christian fundamentalists that have been responsible for the economic decline and the despair and broken marriages that poverty breeds.
1
Many people have grown tired of tax exemptions for religion, especially the politics dressed up as evangelical Christianity.
I hope these trends foreshadow the repeal of all religious tax exemptions which are a clear violation of the First Amendment. At a bare minimum, all religious real property and all politics cum religion should be taxed like any other business.
I hope these trends foreshadow the repeal of all religious tax exemptions which are a clear violation of the First Amendment. At a bare minimum, all religious real property and all politics cum religion should be taxed like any other business.
98
Or at least taxed like any other non-profit.
Where do they come up with these numbers? I don't know a single person who identifies as Christian. In fact I only know one person who is religious. I find them very suspect.
9
In Palo Alto, in 1970, when I was a graduate student, I thought everyone was against the Vietnam War. I was wrong. "We" didn't know "everyone."
1
There are a number of comments here that conflate morality with Christianity. While one of the tenets of Christianity is moral behavior, the Ten Commandments which are the basis for "morality" are actually a Jewish tradition. Recall that Moses brought the tablets down from Mt Sinai, and while I can't remember who begat whom, he was way before Christ.
One of the good ideas of religion is the respect for people, animals and broadly speaking, the planet, but in fact this is found in many non-Judeo-Christian religions. I suppose that the leading classes of early societies figured out that the tribe would do better if they all put aside some of the selfish instincts and gave at least a nod to the common weal. (Note to self: are we losing that vision?). Anyway, that is morality, and while it is a good thing that Christ picked up on the idea, it wasn't really novel by the time he came into the picture.
Christianity is the adherence to the tradition that the Jewish God, apparently frustrated with the state of affairs on Earth, created a son to provide an example of good behavior. People who agree that happened and follow his teachings are Christ-ians.
However one can be moral without being Christian, nor any other religion. Furthermore, as a number of commenters are pointing out, we would be well served if the moral aspects of religion were practiced more zealously.
One of the good ideas of religion is the respect for people, animals and broadly speaking, the planet, but in fact this is found in many non-Judeo-Christian religions. I suppose that the leading classes of early societies figured out that the tribe would do better if they all put aside some of the selfish instincts and gave at least a nod to the common weal. (Note to self: are we losing that vision?). Anyway, that is morality, and while it is a good thing that Christ picked up on the idea, it wasn't really novel by the time he came into the picture.
Christianity is the adherence to the tradition that the Jewish God, apparently frustrated with the state of affairs on Earth, created a son to provide an example of good behavior. People who agree that happened and follow his teachings are Christ-ians.
However one can be moral without being Christian, nor any other religion. Furthermore, as a number of commenters are pointing out, we would be well served if the moral aspects of religion were practiced more zealously.
16
A couple of minor points.
1) Christian versions of the 10 commandments are not the same as the Jewish version (google '10 commandments different versions'). For example, the Catholic version dropped the Graven Images prohibition.
2) Jesus practiced Judaism, the Last Supper was a Passover Seder, including presumably keeping the Sabbath on Saturday and keeping Kosher. Christians are very selective as to which aspects of his behavior they model.
1) Christian versions of the 10 commandments are not the same as the Jewish version (google '10 commandments different versions'). For example, the Catholic version dropped the Graven Images prohibition.
2) Jesus practiced Judaism, the Last Supper was a Passover Seder, including presumably keeping the Sabbath on Saturday and keeping Kosher. Christians are very selective as to which aspects of his behavior they model.
"note to self: are we losing that vision?"
You have to ask? Guess why.
You have to ask? Guess why.
This decline is troubling. Although secular leftists would deny this, our country was founded upon Christian values, which do not have a political point of view. We need look no further than the recent riots in Baltimore to see the breakdown of society that occurs when Christian values and morality are thrown away. We view a society of massive illegitimacy, rampant criminal activity, and concern for nobody but oneself. That is sad, because every one of us was created in God's image, and we are all equal in His eyes.
It is also interesting that a large percentage of atheists are not merely personally non-Christian, but seem to have an open hostility towards it. If you wish to be a nonbeliever, that is your prerogative. While I disagree with you, it is your free choice. But don't attempt to limit my religious observance or tell me that it must stay behind the walls of my church.
It is also interesting that a large percentage of atheists are not merely personally non-Christian, but seem to have an open hostility towards it. If you wish to be a nonbeliever, that is your prerogative. While I disagree with you, it is your free choice. But don't attempt to limit my religious observance or tell me that it must stay behind the walls of my church.
5
That last sentence is pretty rich considering the politics of the religious right particularly when it comes to women's health care and the rights of people in "non traditional" relationships. The recent riots have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with police brutality and racism. I'll bet every one of those rogue policemen involved identified as Christian.
35
The Enlightenment deists among the Founding Fathers would dispute your statement. The separation of church and state and religious freedom for those of different beliefs or of no beliefs were part of the principles of the United States from its inception.
6
"But don't attempt to limit my religious observance or tell me that it must stay behind the walls of my church. "
I will absolutely tell you both things. Your right to freedom ends where my nose begins. We in the United States, have a Constitution that guarantees it. Your practice of your religion is subject to the laws and regulations of the United State of America. You do not get to choose for anyone else based upon some arcane ritual or book, how they may live their lives.
The sooner you accept that, the sooner we can all get back to focusing on what is important like ending discrimination and making sure children are fed and educated to the standards of what is widely accepted as appropriate for their integration into the world.
I will absolutely tell you both things. Your right to freedom ends where my nose begins. We in the United States, have a Constitution that guarantees it. Your practice of your religion is subject to the laws and regulations of the United State of America. You do not get to choose for anyone else based upon some arcane ritual or book, how they may live their lives.
The sooner you accept that, the sooner we can all get back to focusing on what is important like ending discrimination and making sure children are fed and educated to the standards of what is widely accepted as appropriate for their integration into the world.
5
Without knowing how this poll was conducted and what/how the questions were asked, it is hard to evaluate this information. It SOUNDS to me like more people are unaffiliated with a particular church or branch of Christianity -- but NOT that they suddenly all identify themselves as atheist/agnostics.
I know quite a few people who stopped going to church in a formal sense -- and because they didn't want to contribute donations, OR their children were grown, OR they simply loathed getting dressed up and having to go early on a Sunday morning for church services -- but who absolutely consider themselves to be "Christians".
I also entirely fail to see in society or media or any other way that there is a tremendous growth in atheism or agnosticism. If 8% of the US did anything that dramatic, I think it would be demonstrated in obvious ways. I also think it is self-serving to read this as "support for the Democratic party" because that is not born out in other polls nor in election results.
I know quite a few people who stopped going to church in a formal sense -- and because they didn't want to contribute donations, OR their children were grown, OR they simply loathed getting dressed up and having to go early on a Sunday morning for church services -- but who absolutely consider themselves to be "Christians".
I also entirely fail to see in society or media or any other way that there is a tremendous growth in atheism or agnosticism. If 8% of the US did anything that dramatic, I think it would be demonstrated in obvious ways. I also think it is self-serving to read this as "support for the Democratic party" because that is not born out in other polls nor in election results.
4
Bravo, Concerned Citizen in Anywheresville, - In a modern drama, you can be Everyman. The mindlessness of the era is very apparent in the media and among readers. Religion is dismissed because it is "too much trouble" just as life is "too much trouble" for many.
1
Many people identify with a religion without an active affiliation.
I consider myself an atheist.
I am not affiliated with anything religious.
But, depending on how the question is asked, I might identify myself as 'of Jewish heritage', or Jewish.
I consider myself an atheist.
I am not affiliated with anything religious.
But, depending on how the question is asked, I might identify myself as 'of Jewish heritage', or Jewish.
I don't dare ask my fundamentalist friends and acquaintances, "Do you need to accept Ronald Reagan as your personal savior in order to be saved?" -- but only because I'm not a jerk (usually). I saw how the idolization of Francisco Franco in Spain destroyed the allegiance of Spaniards to Catholicism. Unfortunately, I see the same confusion of religion and tribal allegiance (and politicization of religion) taking place now in the US. I don't think fundamentalists realize that gaining power over government structures doesn't reach the core of political influence: winning hearts and minds. Many have made this error before; it's strange to see American fundamentalists falling into this trap.....
6
I don't believe it is a confusion - its always been so. Tribal allegiance and religion co-evolved in human society. Religion, with all its right and rules (admittedly, many of the latter are quite beneficial), evolved to tighten tribal allegiances, making those tribes more successful in competition and conflict with other less tightly bound tribes.
The trick for modern society is to try to hold onto and embrace the morality of religions and ditch the myths and tribalism associated with them.
The trick for modern society is to try to hold onto and embrace the morality of religions and ditch the myths and tribalism associated with them.
Some of the decline can be attributed to the co-opting of the term "Cristian" by biblical literalists who are often political and social Regressives. They give Christianity a bad name.
An insistence on holding certain beliefs that are called 'essential' to the faith also pushes thinking religious people away. Distaste for much of institutionalized religion, with 'experts' telling one what to believe or do is another reason.
Christianity may be changing in ways not seen in centuries, with individuals discovering what Jesus really said -- not what was determined 'gospel truth' by bishops and rulers in late antiquity. The closeness of teaching with other traditions is being recognized. Authority, self-.proclaimed, holds no sway. The identity of the Self -- as defined by the Vedas, Jungian psychology, and American Transcendentalists, among others -- with the Christian concept of the Soul is accepted. Growth and learning, not punishment and salvation, are seen as the center of spiritual life. And compassion for humans and animals -- part of what Jesus taught -- is being taken seriously. It doesn't matter what this is called.
An insistence on holding certain beliefs that are called 'essential' to the faith also pushes thinking religious people away. Distaste for much of institutionalized religion, with 'experts' telling one what to believe or do is another reason.
Christianity may be changing in ways not seen in centuries, with individuals discovering what Jesus really said -- not what was determined 'gospel truth' by bishops and rulers in late antiquity. The closeness of teaching with other traditions is being recognized. Authority, self-.proclaimed, holds no sway. The identity of the Self -- as defined by the Vedas, Jungian psychology, and American Transcendentalists, among others -- with the Christian concept of the Soul is accepted. Growth and learning, not punishment and salvation, are seen as the center of spiritual life. And compassion for humans and animals -- part of what Jesus taught -- is being taken seriously. It doesn't matter what this is called.
4
I read this article just after viewing the PBS program "Religion and Ethics" which has been marginalized to 5.00a.m. here. I was most inspired by the subject matter: the Yale School of Sacred Music. The extremely talented.. students is not the right word, so accomplished were they.. the performers when interviewed also seemed not to be worrying about "career" goals but were just into the love of the works and the desire to present this music to others. I believe one of my favourite poets is also teaching at Yale: Christian Wyman "My Shining Abyss". Rev. Danielle Elizabeth Tumminie has written "God and Harry Potter at Yale". I am also inspired by the testimony of my President! Although I don't need a guru or even fellow travelers along my Christian path I keep finding much encouragement to stay on it.
1
Although ascribing cause and effect is always dubious in matters such as these, I suspect that the political rabidness of evangelical Christians has poisoned the Christian brand for many. One of the principal attractions of organized religion has been the "community" aspect. Promoting angry hating of anyone not exactly like you as an overriding religious philosophy is not exactly community building. People are finding community elsewhere.
29
When large numbers of people choose belief over reason it enables the Koch brothers and others to manipulate those beliefs in order to push further an agenda. If you can believe in virgin birth and coming back from the dead you can be convinced that human use of fossil fuel has no affect on climate. Reason allows one to see beyond the manipulation and more and more people see the choice between one of reason and belief and more and more of them are choosing reason. It's about time.
41
If you can believe that scientists know everything there is to know about birth and death right than you can believe that eggs are bad for your. No, wait, good for you. No, wait bad for you.
There is no intrinsic relationship between religion and politics. Many Catholics are liberal Democrats who cannot be convinced that the corruption of the Koch brothers and their anti-science stand is tenable.
There are still a couple of problems. The Republican party is still being manipulated by the evangelicals, particularly in the primaries and second, many republican candidates are claiming to be make their decisions based on their faith. I suspect this will change over time as the unaffiliated and other thinking individuals continue to increase and begin to influence elections.
7
Tom,
I think you have it backwards. It's the Republican party that is manipulating evangelicals which is why, as you point out, many Republican candidates are claiming to base their decisions on faith, Christian version of faith. One can suspect that this profession of faith is cynical and false but it works politically.
I think you have it backwards. It's the Republican party that is manipulating evangelicals which is why, as you point out, many Republican candidates are claiming to base their decisions on faith, Christian version of faith. One can suspect that this profession of faith is cynical and false but it works politically.
As a composer of Jewish-atheist background, I must respect the contributions of Christian thought to music, art, and architecture even though, in my own field, many in the past were equally non-believers (e.g. Verdi, Berlioz, Brahms and probably Faure.).
But it is really about time to stop believing in any of the tenets of these religions as they have manifestly proven harmful against other groups and against any scientific evidence that we have been given.
Sorry, there is no large long-bearded man in the sky and there never was except in various human creators' imaginations.
But it is really about time to stop believing in any of the tenets of these religions as they have manifestly proven harmful against other groups and against any scientific evidence that we have been given.
Sorry, there is no large long-bearded man in the sky and there never was except in various human creators' imaginations.
13
Over a year ago I moved back to north Atlanta after over 30 years of living in the north central states. I was truly amazed at the number of churches and learned to never ventue on the roads on Sunday mornings.
The non establishment clause in the bill of rights also means freedom from religion and I exercise that religion.
I did some research to find out what percent of people by state were active religious people and found out MS has the highest percentage of people who go to church.
MS also has the lowest level of education of any state.
The non establishment clause in the bill of rights also means freedom from religion and I exercise that religion.
I did some research to find out what percent of people by state were active religious people and found out MS has the highest percentage of people who go to church.
MS also has the lowest level of education of any state.
21
Congress needs to immediately enact legislation halting this. We are a christian nation, based on christian laws. These individuals are making a decision to attack our religious foundation. I recently read that some legislator somewhere wanted to make church attendance mandatory. I think it's a great idea as long as we can exclude those religions that aren't included in the majority, just like that county commissioner did down here in York County, NC, where they specifically barred non-christians from delivering the invocation at country meetings.
4
Ha ha.
1
I think this has already been discussed: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." (1st amendment)
You cannot be serious
1
This is good to hear. Among other possible causes I would throw into the pot the intolerance, and denial of science by politically enmeshed American right wing population, the scandalous acts of Catholic priests and the global violence by fanatic Moslems. Religion has been making a very bad reputation for itself and is alienating many. Huge advances in science also challenge the veracity of religious myths and make it harder even for some of the religious to believe in their literal truths. In so many ways, religion just doesn't inspire or add up.
32
As a mental health professional I'm very aware of the importance of being reality-based. Many biblical stories served to explain what, at the time, was unknowable. As science finds more and more answers, a greater stretch is required to continue to believe in phenomena that directly contradict hard evidence.
19
I think this trend comes from an increased willingness to think critically and not simply accept ideas as "givens." Organized religion (I was brought up Catholic) demands a certain level of obedience, conformity and acceptance of authority. Once people step outside the confines of that structure, start to think for themselves and ask questions, it's difficult to go back. Either you buy it or you don't.
The harping on evangelical Christianity by ultra-conservative politicians like Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee simply strengthens the link between religion and the most reactionary elements in our society. Now, whenever I hear anyone invoke "Jesus" I cringe, and immediately stop listening. I guess that's unfair - I am sure there are plenty of decent, progressive people of good will who are upfront about their faith - but it's become a visceral reaction.
I hope - in vain, I am sure - that some day religion will no more be part of this country's political life. No more National Days of Prayer, no more photo ops with the next Billy Graham, no more invoking deities in speeches. You have your beliefs, I have mine, it's entirely private and nobody's business. I am greatly heartened by this article - it feels like progress.
The harping on evangelical Christianity by ultra-conservative politicians like Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee simply strengthens the link between religion and the most reactionary elements in our society. Now, whenever I hear anyone invoke "Jesus" I cringe, and immediately stop listening. I guess that's unfair - I am sure there are plenty of decent, progressive people of good will who are upfront about their faith - but it's become a visceral reaction.
I hope - in vain, I am sure - that some day religion will no more be part of this country's political life. No more National Days of Prayer, no more photo ops with the next Billy Graham, no more invoking deities in speeches. You have your beliefs, I have mine, it's entirely private and nobody's business. I am greatly heartened by this article - it feels like progress.
126
And no more tax exemptions for church-owned properties.
1
Believe it or not, when I was growing up and through my young adulthood, (1950'-1960's) politicians didn't discuss their religion. Oddly, this was at a time when most people were much more religiously "affiliated" than they are now. As I recall, it was sometime in the 80's that this became a "thing".
1
Who among us has not seen or heard creditable stories of preachers demanding definite political voting/actions of their parishioners. Such actions are against the law, because churches are tax-exempt.
Altho it would jostle a hornet's nest, I would love to see the prohibition of political activity by churches enforced, absolutely. Revoking their tax-exempt status would be even better.
Altho it would jostle a hornet's nest, I would love to see the prohibition of political activity by churches enforced, absolutely. Revoking their tax-exempt status would be even better.
191
I attend church every Sunday and have never had my pastor demand political actions or voting for certain candidates by members of the congregation. But, this open hostility towards religion is troubling. While this administration refused to grant federal disaster status to my hometown several years ago when it was struck by a tornado, the churches led the way for disaster recovery. It was all Christian denominations; I personally witnessed the work of Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, and non-denominational churches. I will never forget talking to the Lutheran aid worker who asked me where he was, as all the street signs were gone along with all the houses.
2
Thank you for 'jostle a hornet's nest.' I doubt I'll ever be able to use it unsell-consciously in my writing or speech, but it sure is tempting.
That is wonderful and is exactly what churches should do. Too many politicians are using Christianity as a marketing tool to promote their agenda for narrowing the rights of citizens as in women's health care, gay relationships, and education. Churches need to speak out against this kind of proselytizing. I sincerely believe that has a lot to do with the ambivalence about Christianity for many.
1
One must wonder whether the decline in self-identified Christians is tied to changing economic conditions in the U.S. People who are employed are working long hours for little pay, so fewer and fewer have either the time or the money to attend and support Church activities.
5
Your humanity, to me, is cherished; your religion or you lack of religion is your choice and will have my respect.
Religion, like wealth is often used as a symbol of status or class.
It is a strange phenomenon but it seems that many devout Christians use their faith to foster a self delusion that the intensity of their professed faith or religiosity is an indication of their special class or perhaps their intelligence; this has a tendency to irk some who are "Christian lite," as I am.
I do believe in God; at times I question the validity of my faith.
When I was young I would sometimes annoy adults by stating that belief in heaven is rubbish; I still do believe this.
It may be considered unscientific, not very modern but I certainly believe that there is another dimension of "spirit" after death.
I do not understand the after death phenomenon of spirit world but I do hope that there is such a dimension.
To me the Bible, like Shakespeare's works, are literature to be consumed as literature; sometimes the latter is more credible than the former.
There are some of us who just want moral guidance; many just want to play it safe when it comes to religion... just in case.
Religion, like wealth is often used as a symbol of status or class.
It is a strange phenomenon but it seems that many devout Christians use their faith to foster a self delusion that the intensity of their professed faith or religiosity is an indication of their special class or perhaps their intelligence; this has a tendency to irk some who are "Christian lite," as I am.
I do believe in God; at times I question the validity of my faith.
When I was young I would sometimes annoy adults by stating that belief in heaven is rubbish; I still do believe this.
It may be considered unscientific, not very modern but I certainly believe that there is another dimension of "spirit" after death.
I do not understand the after death phenomenon of spirit world but I do hope that there is such a dimension.
To me the Bible, like Shakespeare's works, are literature to be consumed as literature; sometimes the latter is more credible than the former.
There are some of us who just want moral guidance; many just want to play it safe when it comes to religion... just in case.
9
Pascal's Wager
1
It may be inevitable that people gravitate toward a lack of affiliation with a conventional religion. In a world full of superficial labeling, statistics and knee jerk judgments, I think people more than ever want to preserve their sense of personal identity, even if it's a subliminal need. We are inundated with imagery that reeks havoc on our subconscious in the way we judge people according to their affiliations. Personally, I have great respect for Christians of all denominations as I do of all other faiths. I realize that great harm has been done in the name of faith, but I also think that immeasurable good has been done, and overall, belief in a higher power, the aspiration toward goodness and the unity it can provide has - in the broader scheme of things - been a catalyst for our betterment. And I don't think a move away from conventional churches is necessarily demonstrative of a rejection of Christianity. Rather, I think people are looking to broaden, explore as well as preserve a sense of spirituality and are on a personal quest, which - in my travels - seems to be more important than ever to individuals in our nation. I'm heartened to see it.
5
The Christian Church has always had its ups and downs in American history. After a decline in religious enthusiasm, there would be a period of revival which historians and theologians refer to as a Great Awakening. There were three or four of these between the early 18th and the late 19th century. Each of the "Great Awakenings" was characterized by widespread revival, a sharp increase of interest in religion, a profound sense of conviction and redemption on the part of those affected and an increase in church membership. One should not worry about the future of the Christian Church. It is here to stay. As Jesus said about his church in (Matthew 16:17) " I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."
4
I've never doubted that this country would follow Europe in this regard. It simply isn't possible for the educated, objective man or woman to maintain these hoary superstitions in the age of quantum mechanics and spaceflight.
I think too that one has to distinguish between atheism and its polite cousin agnosticism and the decision to abandon formal affiliation with denominations that have promoted unpopular social policies. Between sexism, homophobia, and opposition to birth control, abortion, and divorce, the Catholic and evangelical denominations have managed to alienate themselves from most modern Americans. Even observant Catholics generally ignore the Church's teachings on divorce and birth control and once that happens, the hold of the institution wanes.
But that shift likely couldn't have happened without the scientific revolution. Those who believe that they will roast in hellfire eternal if they get divorced probably won't get divorced. In that, today's Church is something like the British monarchy now that it no longer has the power to cut off heads.
I'd say good riddance, but the loss of religious community has left people feeling isolated and lacking a rigorous moral framework that, for all its many shortcomings, had some strongly positive elements.
I think too that one has to distinguish between atheism and its polite cousin agnosticism and the decision to abandon formal affiliation with denominations that have promoted unpopular social policies. Between sexism, homophobia, and opposition to birth control, abortion, and divorce, the Catholic and evangelical denominations have managed to alienate themselves from most modern Americans. Even observant Catholics generally ignore the Church's teachings on divorce and birth control and once that happens, the hold of the institution wanes.
But that shift likely couldn't have happened without the scientific revolution. Those who believe that they will roast in hellfire eternal if they get divorced probably won't get divorced. In that, today's Church is something like the British monarchy now that it no longer has the power to cut off heads.
I'd say good riddance, but the loss of religious community has left people feeling isolated and lacking a rigorous moral framework that, for all its many shortcomings, had some strongly positive elements.
59
As Nietzsche said, once God is dead, what do we put in his place? Hopufully not the Ubermensch!
I have always felt saddened and confused by organized religion and have never understood how parents could dictate or "teach" their children what to believe about the nature of life. This seems like such a personal choice and any attempt to force or coerce children to believe as their elders always felt to me like a violation of free thought. It also seems that we are all from the same universe and that organized religion separates us, not to mention the way it perpetuates misogynistic practices that really hurt women, even in this modern era. My hope is that we humans find a peaceful, non-divisive way to get along and believe what we choose. Organized religion has done much harm and has tax breaks on top of it...
26
I am a Christian. I belong to an Episcopalean church that loves and respects people of all faiths, sexual preferences, and ethnicities. We try to follow the teachings of Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount, and the guidance of the saints and the great Christian thinkers. And we have a great time at coffee hour!
34
If all faith communities were like yours, it wouldn't matter to me what % of the population was religious, and I would have great respect for religion. But the hard core Christians and others who like to impose their values on the rest of us are a big problem to me, and I'm very happy that their numbers are falling. A new era of tolerance and equality has begun.
Thank you; but your church is an exception.
@MJ of NYC--
"I am a Christian. I belong to an Episcopalean church ..."
AAAAACK!
Every Episcopalian is told in confirmation class that it's the Episcopal Church and the members are Episcopalians.
As a cradle Episcopalian, I found the lovely language of Rite One from the Book of Common Prayer, the traditional hymns, the smells and bells, and the ambiance of the sanctuary comforting and conducive to the meditative state. And yes--the coffee hour--Episcopalians have tended to be socially open and better educated, making for an intellectually satisfying post-service experience. After childhood I did not believe in Christian theology; the notions of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ were belied by the early history of the Church. Nonetheless, over the years, I attended church in various towns, pledged, joined the choir and the altar guild, and took an active role in many outreach programs. But during the GW Bush presidency, when the priest at the small-town Texas church I was attending began to talk politics, I got up and left. Since then, a schism has opened in the Church, with small bands of "conservatives" against gay marriage breaking away from the main body into a variety of "realignments," and people like them have hijacked the term "Christian" for themselves, giving both Christianity and conservatism a bad name. Now, like at least one other commenter here, I can't abide even the mention of Jesus--it provokes a visceral reaction of disgust.
"I am a Christian. I belong to an Episcopalean church ..."
AAAAACK!
Every Episcopalian is told in confirmation class that it's the Episcopal Church and the members are Episcopalians.
As a cradle Episcopalian, I found the lovely language of Rite One from the Book of Common Prayer, the traditional hymns, the smells and bells, and the ambiance of the sanctuary comforting and conducive to the meditative state. And yes--the coffee hour--Episcopalians have tended to be socially open and better educated, making for an intellectually satisfying post-service experience. After childhood I did not believe in Christian theology; the notions of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ were belied by the early history of the Church. Nonetheless, over the years, I attended church in various towns, pledged, joined the choir and the altar guild, and took an active role in many outreach programs. But during the GW Bush presidency, when the priest at the small-town Texas church I was attending began to talk politics, I got up and left. Since then, a schism has opened in the Church, with small bands of "conservatives" against gay marriage breaking away from the main body into a variety of "realignments," and people like them have hijacked the term "Christian" for themselves, giving both Christianity and conservatism a bad name. Now, like at least one other commenter here, I can't abide even the mention of Jesus--it provokes a visceral reaction of disgust.
i was raised Christian with 3 clergy in my family. At 15 I abandoned the organized part, but still belived in the heavenly watcher. By 18 it all made absolutely no sense, and I studied enough to understand why. But I held on to the teachings of caring, sharing, love and justice that I was raised with. In fact, it's these teachings that ensured my opposition to religion. Though, I know Christians who adhere to aspects of the religion, the faces of the belief are not them. The faces are Osteen, Dollar, and the other preachers of the "gospel of prosperity" --primarily their own. They are the Robertsons, Warrens, and the other self appointed judges and purveyors of hate. They are Santorum, and Huckabee--who put God and guns in the same sentence.
Even people who want to believe look at these characters, and they feel that twinge inside that they are being fed lies.
Even people who want to believe look at these characters, and they feel that twinge inside that they are being fed lies.
234
CalypsoArt. why are you judging Christianity by it's flawed so-called followers, rather than by Jesus, the founder of the faith. Human beings will always disappoint you; but the real God? Never.
American (and Canadian) cultural heritage was founded on deeply Christian principles. As unaffiliation grows, the underpinnings of our culture are eroded. Without concluding if this is a good thing or not, my point is that nobody is even trying to investigate the societal impact of pulling the carpet out from under our Culture.
5
Our culture was not founded on deeply Christian principles, but Germanic tribal law that predated Christianity. The conceit that, without Christianity, mankind would be running around in a state of wild anarchy is based in personal ego, not in fact.
What important American value is uniquely Christian? The underpinnings of our society are to be a good person and to do good work. Living that has nothing to do with religion in general or Christianity in particular.
And those founding principles were deeply flawed, in the way they treated blacks, Native Americans, women, gays, and non-Christians.
And those founding principles were deeply flawed, in the way they treated blacks, Native Americans, women, gays, and non-Christians.
Concerning the myth that the US was "founded on deeply Christian principles":
The "Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary" was signed at Tripoli on 4 November 1796, ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate on 7 June 1797, and signed by President John Adams on 10 June 1979. It states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
The "Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary" was signed at Tripoli on 4 November 1796, ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate on 7 June 1797, and signed by President John Adams on 10 June 1979. It states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
This feels like long slow progress (approaching a tipping point?) from a time when almost nothing could be understood and explained except in mystical terms to a time when most big questions can be approached in scientific inquiry. Pleasantly, gently, yet relentlessly, we come to terms with life without the need for the comforting fables of our species' childhood.
53
More interesting to see would be the span from 2000 to 2015. You see, omitted from the change data are major impacts that could have caused surges in religious affiliation. Of course, I'm thinking of the September 11 terrorists attacks in 2001 and the real estate market collapse in 2009.
Likewise, the cohort analysis provides no factual basis for the quoted conclusion that age has no effect on religious affiliation. In fact, the one cited fact refutes the quoted conclusion which is has no cited factual support. It says younger millennials are less affiliated than older millennials. That could imply that as millennials age, they become more religious.
Trust me on this. When hijacked planes slam into office buildings on live television, when people see their savings wiped out in weeks, and when your doctor begins excuses himself because a minister is waiting, people affiliate.
Likewise, the cohort analysis provides no factual basis for the quoted conclusion that age has no effect on religious affiliation. In fact, the one cited fact refutes the quoted conclusion which is has no cited factual support. It says younger millennials are less affiliated than older millennials. That could imply that as millennials age, they become more religious.
Trust me on this. When hijacked planes slam into office buildings on live television, when people see their savings wiped out in weeks, and when your doctor begins excuses himself because a minister is waiting, people affiliate.
4
Older people come from a different era and many cling to their beliefs. Those of us who grew up without belief have no need or inclination to adopt it -- could not adopt it, since we don't regard it as objective. So no, I don't think those millennials will be getting religion as they age. And while like many New Yorkers I witnessed the events of 9/11 in person, I didn't discard my rationality! I'm sure it's very comforting to believe one will live forever, but I couldn't have done so had I wished, as to me such beliefs are as absurd as faith in Santa Claus.
8
I would argue that the opposite happened. The religious extremism behind the attacks made people question religiosity, the loss of savings and security made them question - really question - why so many bad things could happen to good people, and well, the doctor; I'm not sure what you're saying.
Those developments - a pervasive sense that we are ultimately alone and unprotected - and the Republican "evangelists" and Catholic predator scandals were factors in me turning away.
Those developments - a pervasive sense that we are ultimately alone and unprotected - and the Republican "evangelists" and Catholic predator scandals were factors in me turning away.
1
"I'm sure it's very comforting to believe one will live forever, but I couldn't have done so had I wished, as to me such beliefs are as absurd as faith in Santa Claus."
As one who pretty much stopped going to church very young, in the early 1960s, and whose family weren't really churchgoers anyway except on those holidays when everyone came out from beneath the woodwork, I nevertheless like to think that somewhere, somehow, my parents, aunts, and uncles are all at the seashore, having cocktails together, with my grandparents and great-aunts looking on benignly.
Someday I'll be there too. Perhaps having a Shirley Temple.
As one who pretty much stopped going to church very young, in the early 1960s, and whose family weren't really churchgoers anyway except on those holidays when everyone came out from beneath the woodwork, I nevertheless like to think that somewhere, somehow, my parents, aunts, and uncles are all at the seashore, having cocktails together, with my grandparents and great-aunts looking on benignly.
Someday I'll be there too. Perhaps having a Shirley Temple.
You'd never guess the results of this poll from the behavior of politicians of all stripes---by far most egregiously the Republicans, but even many Democratic politicians make a point of stressing their faith, as if churchgoing were a required testimonial to a good character. Is this yet another example of how out of touch our representatives are with the people? And---when will this trend make itself felt at the voting booth? It should drive Republicans right out of office. (To the extent that our democracy functions.)
67
This is because the secular will not vote against a politician who claims to be religious, while the religious will not vote for a politician who is a professed atheist. In fact, a poll I saw some years ago on that topic found that more people would vote for a gay president than would vote for an admitted atheist.
More sophisticated people know that at the higher reaches, many politicians aren't actually religious, but are forced to put on a dog and pony show for the masses. Or else, as Peggy Noonan said of her comrades in the Reagan White House, they believe in the church but not in God.
(This isn't to say that all politicians are religious -- Carter certainly was, and that idiot Bush. Nixon described himself as a "not very religious Christian" (how can you partly believe in God?). Reagan had no religious faith that I can detect, other than his belief in callous conservatism. Obama shows no signs of being religious although he did participate in a church.)
More sophisticated people know that at the higher reaches, many politicians aren't actually religious, but are forced to put on a dog and pony show for the masses. Or else, as Peggy Noonan said of her comrades in the Reagan White House, they believe in the church but not in God.
(This isn't to say that all politicians are religious -- Carter certainly was, and that idiot Bush. Nixon described himself as a "not very religious Christian" (how can you partly believe in God?). Reagan had no religious faith that I can detect, other than his belief in callous conservatism. Obama shows no signs of being religious although he did participate in a church.)
6
Given the decline one would hope to see an increase in belief in science, but I'm not convinced that that's happening. It seems that belief in a rational, understandable, world following the laws of physics has not accompanied a decline in Christian beliefs.
12
As a lifelong Evangelical Christian, I'm not the norm because I think God cares much more about how we treat other people than we we do in our bedrooms. As such, if I was asked to participate in this poll, I'd try to find a way to place and asterisk by my answer "Evangelical Christian." I'd try to find a way within that poll to separate myself from most Evangelicals, who seem to love America but dislike most of the people in it. I suspect nationwide, many other respondents would feel the same way.
66
I wish more were like you. I'm consistently amazed by the degree to which many "Christians" fail to follow anything resembling the teachings of Jesus and indeed promote policies that are antithetical to anything he is known to have said.
4
You make an excellent point. "Evangelical" is too broad and imprecise a term. Many mainline United Methodists, for example, identify theologically and historically as "evangelical" but are most definitely not social conservatives in their politics. The religious right's adherents have hijacked the term "evangelical." They are not. They are theologically fundamentalists.
5
You cannot love America and hate it's citizens.
Bad news for religious minorities. Imagine what they're like when they aren't afraid of something.
9
Perhaps the number of Christians will rise once its secular "leaders" aka Republican politicians start following the words of Christ rather than Grover Norquist. It's no wonder that the number of people calling themselves Christian is falling. Those who deny care to the poor, deny science and worship Mammon make the entire religion seem ignorant, hateful and uncompassionate. It's a shame since what Jesus actually said was worth hearing.
227
When you add the agnostic nature of religions of India and China you quickly realize that majority of the World is non-religious. The Old eastern religions have learned the futility of trying to control their followers and adapted to it. Time for abhramic religions to do the same.
12
Wouldn't it be sad if this were all a dream and all the atheists out there were putting all their faith in the completely arbitrary laws of the dream-world universe? There is no way to prove this isn't just a dream -- maybe even my dream but I believe God's.
3
Would I have answered that I was a Christian had I been asked? No, as I don't go to church or identify with any denomination, and my religious upbringing was minimal. But I am aware that my cultural history and identity is Christian, just as secular Jews identify as Jewish. It's important to know where you come from and what ideas have influenced you.
2
I really hate it when people tell me that while i might not be christian my values and history are of judeo-christian decent. That might be true in some small ways. BUT most of the values we cherish today, such as democratic participation, women rights(abortion, voting rights and in general the idea that women and men are of equal value), rights for minorities and most importantly the speration of church and state as well as a rational and scientific outlook on the world, all these the churches stood and in some cases continue to stand against, so they are anything but christian.
Even better is when people tell me I cant have any values because I dont believe in God. Are commandment like you shouldnt murder or steal really (solely( christian values? Id say they are common sense.
Even better is when people tell me I cant have any values because I dont believe in God. Are commandment like you shouldnt murder or steal really (solely( christian values? Id say they are common sense.
39
Jesus was actually for a strict separation of church and state. Mark 12:17 testifies to this point. Perhaps you should actually understand the other point of view before you construct straw(men) to beat to death in the defense of purportedly secular ideals.
1
Please notice that I did not use the word values, nor did I make a value judgment, except to say I think it's valuable to know the historical forces that have shaped you.
1
So why are we allowing the most lunatic fringe of so-called Christians dictate most of the social policy in this country?
357
Given that abortion is legal in all 50 States to varying degrees and gay marriage is legal in 36 States your argument doesn't hold water.
2
Because the GOP found out that it gave them a winning margin in elections.
Because they're the ones who vote.
If Christians really cared what Jesus thought, they would not be taking strident, aggressive, judgmental positions that drive people away from faith in God. They - the Christians who make the news, not all Christians - have allowed their religion to be coopted by political interests and turned it into a charade. Their moral high ground is based on prosecuting abortion and homosexuality with little apparent concern for things like "judge not" or "love your neighbor". The conservative Christians I know are also pro-gun and anti-global warming. How those things came to be aligned with Christianity would be an interesting story.
Sadly, this is turning people away from religion and God entirely. This kind of Christianity dominates the news because it is so political and controversial. People are rightly turned off by it, but it doesn't really speak for God. There are not enough voices saying that.
But even among churches that don't take a position on homosexuality or abortion there is reason to be disturbed. The church is depressingly silent on poverty, increasing inequality, and war. These are moral issues on which the church could (and should) take a prophetic stand.
Sadly, this is turning people away from religion and God entirely. This kind of Christianity dominates the news because it is so political and controversial. People are rightly turned off by it, but it doesn't really speak for God. There are not enough voices saying that.
But even among churches that don't take a position on homosexuality or abortion there is reason to be disturbed. The church is depressingly silent on poverty, increasing inequality, and war. These are moral issues on which the church could (and should) take a prophetic stand.
49
What you are describing is mainly the far-right, white Evangelical mindset. There are many Black evangelicals who stress social justice issues and caring for the poor. I call the people you describe 'cultural Christians," because their faith seems guided more by politics and conservatism than by the words of Jesus.
1
The fastest growing religion in the US is Consumerism and its's cathedral is the Mall.
35
That was half a century ago. What grows fast is a tribalism rooted in Social Media. The altars are MSNBC and Fox News.
Actually, people aren't going to malls as much either.
http://www.businessinsider.com/shopping-malls-are-going-extinct-2014-1
http://www.businessinsider.com/shopping-malls-are-going-extinct-2014-1
Looks like there will be fewer and fewer pews, according to the Pews.
22
The inspirational and inclusionary message of faith, hope and charity that bound communities of people together - and which Pope Francis has shown still resonates powerfully - was displaced by small leaders offering a narrow, exclusionary message of opposition to contraception, gay marriage and abortion. Thus the next generation was lost.
27
Fundamentalists hold on to their numbers only by withdrawing further and further from the reality of the outside world: they not only have their own communities and churches, they now have their own news and entertainment media, their own schools, even their own museums and so-called univerisities, all designed to reinforce their beliefs and keep reality at bay.
The downsides are obvious: children almost incapable of living a life outside of the bubble, and an opening for demagogues of dubious intellect (and even more dubious motives) to infest and impair State and Federal legislatures.
The downsides are obvious: children almost incapable of living a life outside of the bubble, and an opening for demagogues of dubious intellect (and even more dubious motives) to infest and impair State and Federal legislatures.
46
Although it's only been 8 years since the last Pew survey, I wonder to what degree, if any, scientific discoveries over that time, and the growing "body of evidence" about the (real) origin of life, have contributed to the shift away from religion. That is, as a "supernatural creator being" becomes less and less likely an explanation, and 3.5 billion years of evolution becomes a more probable (if not nearly certain) explanation, shouldn't we EXPECT a growing number of people to reject these ancient belief systems as "well-intended, yet flawed in their reasoning?" Moreover, I wonder if TV ads like Ron Reagan's "Freedom From Religion Foundation" have taken the stink-eye off public proclamations of atheism? Let's hope so.
11
Yes, I think the growing public acceptability of atheism is as much responsible as actual disavowal of religion.
Based on the secularization of Europe this trend doesn't surprise me at all, but it disappoints me all the same. Those of you who believe that religion does nothing good in modern society should read "American Grace" by Robert Putnam. Putnam repeatedly shows that people who attend a church or synagogue are more generous with their time and money than people who never attend, have more friends, and are physically healthier. Putnam particularly praises liberal Christianity for its members extremely high social engagement.
A secular society would be more politically liberal and more supportive of wealth tranfers, but without churches which often create bonds outside of class, there would also be a bigger divide between the wealthy, middle class, and poor. Bike clubs, MeetUps, etc and other religion-independent social activities don't create interclass bonds or as tight bonds as well as houses of worship do.
I find it ironic that people here who are delighted about this decline because they think it will be good for liberalism see no nuances in the decline at all. To me this scorn of religion and inability to see anything bad in its decline is itself illiberal.
A secular society would be more politically liberal and more supportive of wealth tranfers, but without churches which often create bonds outside of class, there would also be a bigger divide between the wealthy, middle class, and poor. Bike clubs, MeetUps, etc and other religion-independent social activities don't create interclass bonds or as tight bonds as well as houses of worship do.
I find it ironic that people here who are delighted about this decline because they think it will be good for liberalism see no nuances in the decline at all. To me this scorn of religion and inability to see anything bad in its decline is itself illiberal.
11
The most segregated day of the week is Sunday, by race and wealth.
As someone raised by secular parents who has become a secular parent (though I tried the Unitarian church for a while when my kids were little, they stopped wanting to attend at a certain point) I agree with you that we need to replace some of the social structures of religion as we move forward, and it's not as easy as it looks to do that. Modern mass society can be too isolating. We are also tearing down civic organizations that used to bring people together, and when everybody works neighbors don't get to know each other as easily.
But the answer is not to push falsehoods about reality. They are dangerous. I believe our lack of response to global warming is in part because people think God will take care of them, he would not allow the earth to perish (or that it is the end of times if he does, so it's a good thing). Another dangerous belief is the belief that nature, and the world, are just places, because then that explains why the poor are poor--i.e., it's karma, they deserve it. Another dangerous set of beliefs are those surrounding sexuality and reproduction.
But the answer is not to push falsehoods about reality. They are dangerous. I believe our lack of response to global warming is in part because people think God will take care of them, he would not allow the earth to perish (or that it is the end of times if he does, so it's a good thing). Another dangerous belief is the belief that nature, and the world, are just places, because then that explains why the poor are poor--i.e., it's karma, they deserve it. Another dangerous set of beliefs are those surrounding sexuality and reproduction.
2
"Putnam particularly praises liberal Christianity for its members extremely high social engagement."
There's an argument to be made there. However, there's also an argument that liberal Christians "front" for illiberal Christians; they delay the realization among larger numbers of people that religion itself is problematic and archaic, no matter how "liberal." Thus they inadvertently support their dogmatic, fundamentalist cousins.
There's an argument to be made there. However, there's also an argument that liberal Christians "front" for illiberal Christians; they delay the realization among larger numbers of people that religion itself is problematic and archaic, no matter how "liberal." Thus they inadvertently support their dogmatic, fundamentalist cousins.
Experts in polling, of course, rarely admit that the questions themselves indicate bias.
Would a liberal media organization, after all, ever commission (or report upon) a poll that found that male boardroom leadership is superior and more effective?
Or a conservative one saying that white male executives were overwhelmingly sexist and oppressive?
Of course not.
Like everything else today, polling and pollsters are both splintered and revenue-driven, and thus often return the wanted results.
Just last week, for example, the prospect of a big Conservative win in Britain was written off by pollsters as imaginary and delusional.
And then when it happened was chalked up to something aberrant and unimaginable.
So it might make some sense to question the integrity of the pollsters themselves.
Rather than continue to rely on them to form important social opinions.
Would a liberal media organization, after all, ever commission (or report upon) a poll that found that male boardroom leadership is superior and more effective?
Or a conservative one saying that white male executives were overwhelmingly sexist and oppressive?
Of course not.
Like everything else today, polling and pollsters are both splintered and revenue-driven, and thus often return the wanted results.
Just last week, for example, the prospect of a big Conservative win in Britain was written off by pollsters as imaginary and delusional.
And then when it happened was chalked up to something aberrant and unimaginable.
So it might make some sense to question the integrity of the pollsters themselves.
Rather than continue to rely on them to form important social opinions.
2
The Barna Foundation, a Christian researching firm, has found the same thing.
http://www.religionnews.com/2014/10/24/secularism-is-on-the-rise-as-more...
http://www.religionnews.com/2014/10/24/secularism-is-on-the-rise-as-more...
I think the gay issue has caused many to leave the church. Now that most churches are allowing gays in the pulpit and gay marriage I think many members think that if the church was wrong in their history about gays then the church might be wrong about other principles.
6
Some are leaving for the opposite reason. I know 6 times married woman left her church because they accepted a lesbian couple into the congregation.
1
Totally a wrong interpretation -- many of the mainstream Protestant churches have fallen over themselves to welcome gays -- have gay clergy -- perform gay marriages. This has totally alienated their base of middle-aged or older congregants, who want nothing to do with this -- it makes a mockery of their religion and their own marriages. Many do not want to have to go to gay clergy with their problems.
Rather than be accused of being "haters", they have quietly just left. But it would be wrong to say they are "unreligious". Their religion left THEM, not the other way 'round.
In time, a few smart churches will return to traditional values and traditional marriage, and reclaim many of these congregants.
Rather than be accused of being "haters", they have quietly just left. But it would be wrong to say they are "unreligious". Their religion left THEM, not the other way 'round.
In time, a few smart churches will return to traditional values and traditional marriage, and reclaim many of these congregants.
Christians have only themselves to blame for their decreasing percentage in the population. In the US, instead of adhering to the compassionate, inclusive, healing, loving, merciful, gracious and just message of Christ, they have affiliated themselves with divisive, exclusive, money-driven politics.
46
All I care about is whether there is a rise in compassion and caring for one another, independent of any religion. This, of course, is not reported in such surveys. And, if we see a GOP win, we will know this is not the case no matter what the religions might be of those elected and their supporters.
11
It is nice to see the USA catching up with the rest of the developed world. It is strange that so many Americans also hold anti-scientific beliefs, such as creationism and climate change denial. It doesn't say much for your educational system!
42
Maybe unaffiliated means Catholics who married Mainline Protestants, or their kids. Or maybe the young unaffiliated are moving often.
1
Who says the newspapers never report good news.
255
Most people, Christian or otherwise, have as much choice in religious identity as in their names, since both come to them via the accident of birth. The majority of Indians, for example, are born as Hindus, and never question that part of their identity, since that would make as much sense as questioning why they are named so-and-so.
It is a very hopeful sign to see that mainstream religious identification in the US is dropping, and not simply because other religions are taking up the slack. As one of the other posts here succinctly put it, we need freedom FROM religion, not OF. Thousands of years of advances in human knowledge has shown us after all that the human condition improves as we ponder things without the irrational constraints of religious dictates.
It is a very hopeful sign to see that mainstream religious identification in the US is dropping, and not simply because other religions are taking up the slack. As one of the other posts here succinctly put it, we need freedom FROM religion, not OF. Thousands of years of advances in human knowledge has shown us after all that the human condition improves as we ponder things without the irrational constraints of religious dictates.
18
Once I grew out of childish superstitions of an ever watchful, ever vengeful god, I left religion behind, about age twelve, never to look back. Good riddance. Despite all the protestations of peace and love, chistianity is more about superstition, judgement, exclusion, denial, coercion, punishment and persecution. This, of course, is hardly unique to christianity, it's in common with with all religion.
45
If less than 6% of adult Americans consider themselves to be believers of a faith other than some form of Christianity -- and that includes Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Baha'i, and many other groups -- how is it possible for the Christian religious right to constantly declare that Muslims are taking over the country?
The media needs to shine a brighter and more frequent spotlight on the absurd paranoia against religious minorities in the US, especially when there is hard data like this to show what a small number of followers of minority religions there are in the US.
The media needs to shine a brighter and more frequent spotlight on the absurd paranoia against religious minorities in the US, especially when there is hard data like this to show what a small number of followers of minority religions there are in the US.
11
One commenter writes that our "legal principles are derived in large part from biblical law. . ." That is a claim made over and over again by evangelicals. The Ten Commandments. . . Judeo-Christian principles. . . these are the foundation of our law, according to them.
Having been a lawyer for 40 years, I say: "Baloney!" The Bible is almost never cited by the courts -- not today, and not for centuries and centuries past. Here in the States we have an official separation of religion from government, so perhaps it is not surprising that the Bible is largely absent from our laws. But the same is true of English law. You might find some vague reference to the Almighty here and there -- but concrete, particular principles that determine an outcome in a particular case? No. As far as I can tell, Anglo-American law is based ultimately on Germanic tribal law -- pre-Christian. In the 20th century there has been a good infusion of Civil Law principles -- also non-Biblical.
I think when people say "Christian" or "Biblical," they mean "good," or "fair," or "just" -- as though goodness, fairness and justice were exclusively Christian -- as though Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Confucianists, Taoists, animists, or atheists could not possibly be good or fair or just. When someone does a good deed, they sometimes say, "That's very Christian of you" -- just as they used to say, "That's very white of you."
The United States of America is NOT a Christian nation. Get over it.
Having been a lawyer for 40 years, I say: "Baloney!" The Bible is almost never cited by the courts -- not today, and not for centuries and centuries past. Here in the States we have an official separation of religion from government, so perhaps it is not surprising that the Bible is largely absent from our laws. But the same is true of English law. You might find some vague reference to the Almighty here and there -- but concrete, particular principles that determine an outcome in a particular case? No. As far as I can tell, Anglo-American law is based ultimately on Germanic tribal law -- pre-Christian. In the 20th century there has been a good infusion of Civil Law principles -- also non-Biblical.
I think when people say "Christian" or "Biblical," they mean "good," or "fair," or "just" -- as though goodness, fairness and justice were exclusively Christian -- as though Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Confucianists, Taoists, animists, or atheists could not possibly be good or fair or just. When someone does a good deed, they sometimes say, "That's very Christian of you" -- just as they used to say, "That's very white of you."
The United States of America is NOT a Christian nation. Get over it.
307
"say "Christian" or "Biblical," they mean "good," or "fair," or "just" -- as though goodness, fairness and justice were exclusively Christian -- "
This is tough to accept regarding a faith whose leaders seem to quietly accept a public worship mixing God and Koch, Christ and the NRA. A number of posters have commented on the negative image many hold of the Christian faith in the US. Until its leaders stand against such decriptions of their faith, trust in this brand will diminish.
...Andrew
This is tough to accept regarding a faith whose leaders seem to quietly accept a public worship mixing God and Koch, Christ and the NRA. A number of posters have commented on the negative image many hold of the Christian faith in the US. Until its leaders stand against such decriptions of their faith, trust in this brand will diminish.
...Andrew
1
Funny you say that when the national motto is, "In God We Trust". Surely Eisenhover wasn't referring to a non-Christian God?
1
Amen! :)
If there's anything our misadventures in the Middle East should have proven by now, it's that the tribalism in countries split by religious and other factions is inimical to democracy. Wouldn't it be great to finally have it diminish here, along with the political influence of creationists and all those who've tried, and keep trying, to have their religious beliefs dictate public policy.
16
Of course younger folks are gravitating towards non-affiliation. We can smell the hypocrisy of most religions from miles away.
All of these "Christians" who go to church, pray to God and believe in Jesus' teachings.
Then go home and vote Republican, supporting discrimination against gays (Jesus said "love thy neighbor"), the poor, etc.
Maybe if there was a little (okay, a LOT) less hypocrisy, you wouldn't see folks avoiding churches in droves.
All of these "Christians" who go to church, pray to God and believe in Jesus' teachings.
Then go home and vote Republican, supporting discrimination against gays (Jesus said "love thy neighbor"), the poor, etc.
Maybe if there was a little (okay, a LOT) less hypocrisy, you wouldn't see folks avoiding churches in droves.
81
What kind of private jet would Jesus buy?
Religious leaders hitched their faiths to a reactionary strain of politics, and now their former adherents are turning away?
They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind.
They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind.
31
Long may this trend continue! As the moral philosopher George Santayana said, "one real world is enough." We have a boatload of problems in the here and now without obsessing about the hereafter. We need to use the intelligence evolution rather than God gave us to save the only planet we have rather than fighting about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The sooner religion stops substituting for reason the better off we'll all be.
35
Values change.
We live in times that encourage and reward thinking for yourself and making a life for yourself and your family.
As such, I struggle to respect someone who, rather than thinking for themselves, defines right and wrong by what is written in some book, thousands of years old, author unknown. Same for leaving their fate to some undefined "fate" or agency of predetermination by whatever name they know it.
We live in the age of self now. For better and, yes, in some ways for worse.
We live in times that encourage and reward thinking for yourself and making a life for yourself and your family.
As such, I struggle to respect someone who, rather than thinking for themselves, defines right and wrong by what is written in some book, thousands of years old, author unknown. Same for leaving their fate to some undefined "fate" or agency of predetermination by whatever name they know it.
We live in the age of self now. For better and, yes, in some ways for worse.
7
Amen Brother
The statistics are startling. The fact that so many Catholics and Protestants support the Republicans, a party which presents a philosophy of greed and war, and which is only too willing to critically judge those who struggle in life, demonstrates the utter hypocrisy of much of the American population.
Those who genuinely embrace the teachings of Christ should hope that the ranks of the non-affiliated rapidly increase in America, including the agnostic and atheists, so that our country truly becomes a more Christian nation.
Those who genuinely embrace the teachings of Christ should hope that the ranks of the non-affiliated rapidly increase in America, including the agnostic and atheists, so that our country truly becomes a more Christian nation.
30
Hillary Clinton supported the invasion of Iraq. Her more recent endeavor s included the destruction of what was left of Libya. Both parties support war.
1
Actually Catholics tend to vote Democrat.
1
Many don't know the difference.
I believe Alice Walker said it best: "God is not in a church. All that is in a church are people looking for God." If I wanted to meet a few sincere people and a whole lot of hypocrites, I would go to church.
28
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
The demographic news in the United States is all good. The future is bright.
17
True. The growth of Islam with it's strict code of behavior is heartening.
1
You've got it backwards! The Church is leaving the Christians.
Look at the Churches' (read: Republicans') record on Christian values :
Peace (Iraq? Afghanistan? Iran?)
Helping those in need (Minimum Wage? Immigration? Health Care?)
Honesty and hard work (Wall Street?)
Loving one another (Gay marriage?)
The facts speak for themselves. The Church is leaving the Christians.
....no wonder good citizens are leaving in droves.
Look at the Churches' (read: Republicans') record on Christian values :
Peace (Iraq? Afghanistan? Iran?)
Helping those in need (Minimum Wage? Immigration? Health Care?)
Honesty and hard work (Wall Street?)
Loving one another (Gay marriage?)
The facts speak for themselves. The Church is leaving the Christians.
....no wonder good citizens are leaving in droves.
98
Pope Francis is the only hope we've got to live a truly exemplary live!
Perhaps soon the majority of Americans will believe that the universe is over 6,000 years old, that we evolved and were not created in our present form, and our nation will be able to join the world of science and reality.
29
One other reason: corruption and malfeasance in the Catholic Church. Now if we can just remove the tax breaks for all these horrid businesses.
44
I'm not surprised. The example Christians set is not an an admirable one.
26
Christianity is in trouble? "Good for that" the predictable writings in these comments. "And bad for the Republicans because they have hijacked religion and can't win without them Christians" also more of the same stripe. But if the survey is correct then how to account for the massive and unprecedented domination of Republican politicians across the nation?
The GOP now governs 37 states and its legislators even more. Congress is also under Republican control and that is a recent event - an "anti-Obama" event. There is something afoot here in so many victories and, by this survey, one has to conclude it has little to do with religion. Clearly the tide against progressive policies is sweeping across the country. Oh, there are the few predictable holdouts: New York, California among them. But the majority moving dramatically opposite.
This bodes well for the potential Republican presidential candidate. The Christians are a lockup for the GOP just as blacks are for Democrats - the polarization is vast, deep and irreconcilable. But the non-affiliated, and for the most part, non-ideological, are there for the winning. This is the group giving the GOP its current victories. "Progressive" meaning high taxes, intrusive government, minority politics are emblematic of the Dems and are big turnoffs for this group. With the right candidate they can carry the GOP into the White House.
The GOP now governs 37 states and its legislators even more. Congress is also under Republican control and that is a recent event - an "anti-Obama" event. There is something afoot here in so many victories and, by this survey, one has to conclude it has little to do with religion. Clearly the tide against progressive policies is sweeping across the country. Oh, there are the few predictable holdouts: New York, California among them. But the majority moving dramatically opposite.
This bodes well for the potential Republican presidential candidate. The Christians are a lockup for the GOP just as blacks are for Democrats - the polarization is vast, deep and irreconcilable. But the non-affiliated, and for the most part, non-ideological, are there for the winning. This is the group giving the GOP its current victories. "Progressive" meaning high taxes, intrusive government, minority politics are emblematic of the Dems and are big turnoffs for this group. With the right candidate they can carry the GOP into the White House.
5
The GOP had the vast majority of their pick-ups in midterm elections. Those are typically elections where the president's party loses. They are also elections where minority voters and young people, aka Democratic voters, don't turn out to vote. In the 2014 midterms, only 36% of eligible voters turned out to vote. The challenge for Democrats is in how to turn more voters out in off-year elections, meanwhile the GOP has lost the last two presidential elections by significant margins, and I don't expect them to do much better in 2016.
3
Nice try but it's Republicans who are intruding into people's lives, telling them who they can and can't marry, what kinds of health care they can and can't access and of course it's Republicans who are trying to force the middle class to subsidize the low wage earners of large corporations.
11
The shameless gerrymandering of electoral districts is the only thing keeping Republicans in power. It can work for only so long, however, and when change comes, it will come very suddenly.
7
I find most of the Christians I know to be pushy and judgmental. They look down on others and are continually and continuously attempting to recruit into their fold. I object. Being "born again" is not the measure of my life and will not be the measure of my life. It is that simple.
67
Most Christians are not evangelicals, so that seems like an odd statement. I grew up and still live in a neighborhood that is mostly Roman Catholic, yet I have literally NEVER had any Catholic try and "convert me" (a Jew) to Catholicism. Ditto for the main Protestant churches.
Obviously though, if one is an Evangelical, by DEFINITION you would be seeking to convert the unconverted. I've never seen this done by force. Why can't you just politely say "I am not interested"?
Obviously though, if one is an Evangelical, by DEFINITION you would be seeking to convert the unconverted. I've never seen this done by force. Why can't you just politely say "I am not interested"?
2
They don't believe we Atheists don't believe; that, in a foxhole, we will discover that we really do believe..
Whether or not the decline in self-declared Christianity is a good thing, I can't say. What worries me is the decline in numeracy and precise use of language. If a decline of 5 million adults equals 8 per cent, as I read this minute, then the population has 62.5 million adults. Out of 319 million people in the country, I'd have expected more adults. Or more attention to numbers from the Times.
5
From the prominently linked Pew survey:
"In 2007, there were 227 million adults in the United States, and a little more than 78% of them – or roughly 178 million – identified as Christians. Between 2007 and 2014, the overall size of the U.S. adult population grew by about 18 million people, to nearly 245 million.7 But the share of adults who identify as Christians fell to just under 71%, or approximately 173 million Americans, a net decline of about 5 million."
"In 2007, there were 227 million adults in the United States, and a little more than 78% of them – or roughly 178 million – identified as Christians. Between 2007 and 2014, the overall size of the U.S. adult population grew by about 18 million people, to nearly 245 million.7 But the share of adults who identify as Christians fell to just under 71%, or approximately 173 million Americans, a net decline of about 5 million."
Jolly good.
The fact that most Christians in America are fundamentalists is bad news for the future of the faith. Though it appears paradoxical, it means their belief system is fragile and, if they're young and their minds haven't shut off yet, it is extremely easy to undermine. And, once undermined, it's more likely to be discarded than transmogrified into a highbrow version of its former self.
In biology class, Chuck Darwin is rarely mentioned, and the issue of evolution is spoken of only briefly or with a red-faced pretense of blindness to the fact that it subverts the beliefs of a majority of the kids in the classroom -- at least that's the case in the South. Very few Christians take the professedly more sophisticated view, which oddly entails not actually believing what the Bible says (though why this is thought a fitter form of exegesis than literalism is unclear). Americans, like most people, have been ingurgitating fairytales.
The internet is doubtless responsible for most of this, what with people accessing, for the first time in their lives, arguments, and rather convincing ones, that dispute their default setting, which for infuriatingly many is evangelical Christianity. Should this continue, or even pick up pace, and I see as yet no reason why it shouldn't, it will have an enormous impact on American society. Some conservative intellectuals think it augurs the second coming of 20th-century totalitarianisms, which is dumb. But we must try to ease social discord.
The fact that most Christians in America are fundamentalists is bad news for the future of the faith. Though it appears paradoxical, it means their belief system is fragile and, if they're young and their minds haven't shut off yet, it is extremely easy to undermine. And, once undermined, it's more likely to be discarded than transmogrified into a highbrow version of its former self.
In biology class, Chuck Darwin is rarely mentioned, and the issue of evolution is spoken of only briefly or with a red-faced pretense of blindness to the fact that it subverts the beliefs of a majority of the kids in the classroom -- at least that's the case in the South. Very few Christians take the professedly more sophisticated view, which oddly entails not actually believing what the Bible says (though why this is thought a fitter form of exegesis than literalism is unclear). Americans, like most people, have been ingurgitating fairytales.
The internet is doubtless responsible for most of this, what with people accessing, for the first time in their lives, arguments, and rather convincing ones, that dispute their default setting, which for infuriatingly many is evangelical Christianity. Should this continue, or even pick up pace, and I see as yet no reason why it shouldn't, it will have an enormous impact on American society. Some conservative intellectuals think it augurs the second coming of 20th-century totalitarianisms, which is dumb. But we must try to ease social discord.
7
This trend seems perfectly in line with general cultural patterns of greater diversity and technology power at an individual's fingertips over his own world. On the internet, you can create your own universe. I'm surprised there are no e- or wiki religions yet, which millions would join and alter just for fun, never mind religious devotion. I've never been a believer in a deity, but, what I care about are the values we got from the enlightenment which includes our political rights like free speech, freedom of religion or conscience, etc. All the piety in the world will not fix our world if we lose that. Some people find them inseparable. I don't think so, but, whether they have provided the base for people to learn cultural norms including aspects of liberty, I doubt, as religion existed long before the enlightenment.
8
There are about 100 billion stars in our galaxy and more than 100 billion galaxies in the universe. Astronomers currently estimate that there are approximately 70 billion trillion stars in the universe, with God knows how many millions/billions/trillions of planets capable of supporting life. And yet, small groups of semi-literate beings, here on Earth, 2500 years ago were able to figure the whole god-thing out with such certainty that are perfectly willing to kill for and die for their beliefs. What sane, educated person would buy into that. To complicate it more, our universe has been "bumped" in four different places by some thing/things outside of it. Yikes!
Enjoy and embrace your religion, but please leave everyone else in peace.
Enjoy and embrace your religion, but please leave everyone else in peace.
307
I guess I agree with your central point. I've never understood, as soon as I could think for myself, why people believed in deities. But, you completely lost me at your complication, Jim. I'm guessing you mean asteroids, but I don't know what that has to do with the topic.
"Our universe has been bumped in four different places by some thing/things outside of it."
What four things are you talking about?
What four things are you talking about?
I believe so called religious beliefs and causes masked other reasons for which populations were and are willing to fight and die. Try power, greed, expansion and national determination.
There is a growing subset of Christians who have moved into spiritual practices which do not necessarily entail subscribing to a set of traditional religious beliefs. These practices would include zen mediation, advaita self-inquiry, or the techniques of Eckhart Tolle. Such practitioners include atheists, agnostics, and ex-Christians who are moving away from organized religion while still adhering to principles of "core Christianity." It's not quite an atheist-believer binary out there.
13
There is also a pretty large subset of people who are nominally Christian (at least by ethnicity and upbringing) but who don't like attending church or donating money in a collection basket -- who hate getting up on Sundays early -- but who hold pretty generally mainstream Christian beliefs.
Many of these people also believe in stuff like angels .... reincarnation .... magic .... aliens .... new age-y stuff .... and mix it all together into a kind of unaffiliated religion belief. It is common for such folks to say "I'm not religious, but I AM SPIRITUAL".
I am not at all convinced this is an improvement over traditional church-based religion, but it is heavily influenced by themes promoted in Hollywood films and TV, and novels.
Many of these people also believe in stuff like angels .... reincarnation .... magic .... aliens .... new age-y stuff .... and mix it all together into a kind of unaffiliated religion belief. It is common for such folks to say "I'm not religious, but I AM SPIRITUAL".
I am not at all convinced this is an improvement over traditional church-based religion, but it is heavily influenced by themes promoted in Hollywood films and TV, and novels.
1
Some calling themselves Christians, ain't,
They view compassion as a taint,
Dislike for the Poor
As lazy, impure,
Is how the Poor they choose to paint.
They view compassion as a taint,
Dislike for the Poor
As lazy, impure,
Is how the Poor they choose to paint.
34
The Pew study actually found that the number of Jews who consider themselves "Jewish by religion" has declined by about the same percentage as those terming themselves Christians, and Jewish numbers have held steady only because some Jews consider themselves Jewish by ethnicity. Cohn's piece is not accurate.
There is no evidence cited here supporting Cohn's suggestion that the "politicization" has anything to with these declines. Did he pollsters even ask about it? To me, the most surprising statistic here is that atheist and agnostics TOGETHER form only 7% of the population. I don't believe that's either good or bad news; human nature doesn't seem to change much, with or without faith. People celebrating the decline of religion seem to me as intolerant and bigoted as people who think everyone has to be religious.
There is no evidence cited here supporting Cohn's suggestion that the "politicization" has anything to with these declines. Did he pollsters even ask about it? To me, the most surprising statistic here is that atheist and agnostics TOGETHER form only 7% of the population. I don't believe that's either good or bad news; human nature doesn't seem to change much, with or without faith. People celebrating the decline of religion seem to me as intolerant and bigoted as people who think everyone has to be religious.
1
Since 70% is still a substantial number, our corporate media will refuse to take credit for one of their few accomplishments. Each of our children is bombarded by profit-motivated entertainment products that are carefully non-denominational and morally bereft. Christianity and capitalism have always been strange bedfellows. Our media knows where its heart is.
6
While the decline in Christian believers is encouraging, it's depressing to hear that 71% still have those irrational ideas. No wonder our country is so messed up.
I hope some of the people claiming they are Christians are just saying that because of family associations or a vague sense of morality in general rather than actually believing what Christians allegedly believe.
The true believers are the ones who scare me. Their refusal to accept science and refusal to stay out of the political realm make them very dangerous to the rest of us...
I hope some of the people claiming they are Christians are just saying that because of family associations or a vague sense of morality in general rather than actually believing what Christians allegedly believe.
The true believers are the ones who scare me. Their refusal to accept science and refusal to stay out of the political realm make them very dangerous to the rest of us...
356
With "The Rapture" near, these evangelical Christians care little for the future. They are the most dangerous of all.
7
I wonder why the German people in the 1930s and 1940s did not profess to be "Christian"?
1
There are plenty of Christians who believe in science and evolution -- the vast majority, in fact. The Roman Catholic Church and all the mainstream Protestant churches accept evolution, and many scientists are Christians.
2
I'm not a religious man myself, but I've known a number of lovely Christians over the years. Yet I think a decrease in religion overall, and in Christianity in particular, especially the mega-church variety, would be a good thing for this country. Perhaps we should all become Unitarian Universalists. They accept people with all sorts of belief systems, even atheists.
43
From a European perspective, it has always been somewhat puzzling to understand the religiousness of the US.
The US truly made possible the greatest scientific discoveries; no doubt, most scientists from Europe would want to work at your universities. Not even starting about technical innovations.
But then faith comes into the (political) picture... Is it a disease? If you found a cure, I guess there's still hop. Because, although we are mainly "none's" over here in (northern) Europe, it's really a great and fun place to live.
The US truly made possible the greatest scientific discoveries; no doubt, most scientists from Europe would want to work at your universities. Not even starting about technical innovations.
But then faith comes into the (political) picture... Is it a disease? If you found a cure, I guess there's still hop. Because, although we are mainly "none's" over here in (northern) Europe, it's really a great and fun place to live.
186
Trust me, SO, as an American it is puzzling as well. But one thing we Americans do very well is sanctimony, and religion is a big part of that.....
1
The problem is that religionists in the U.S. are procreating more rapidly than the educated, so that over time a greater and greater percentage of the population is at least brought up by religionism. Fortunately there seems to be a trend toward parental revolt. But there will always be a pool of the rational and the educated, who benefit from American initiative to continue providing the world with new supplies of innovation.
When it comes to politics and candidate agendas, religion should not be part of the equation. We know more about each candidate's alleged spiritual ties than we do about their donors and what their donors want from them the day after the election.
For me, religion is intensely personal. I don't wear it like a badge like many politicians. I'm sick of those who use religion as code for political positions on issues affecting all citizens--or as a litmus test for the ideological purity of their party.
Liberals aren't heathens or antireligion. We just prefer to keep our religious faith to ourselves and out of the voting booth. Precisely as the framers wrote it in the first amendment.
For me, religion is intensely personal. I don't wear it like a badge like many politicians. I'm sick of those who use religion as code for political positions on issues affecting all citizens--or as a litmus test for the ideological purity of their party.
Liberals aren't heathens or antireligion. We just prefer to keep our religious faith to ourselves and out of the voting booth. Precisely as the framers wrote it in the first amendment.
491
Actually, if you are talking politics, lefty liberals really ARE anti-religion. The anti-religious comments and even threats I have read in these forums are legion. The anger and frustrated rage directed specifically at the Roman Catholic Church is easily documented, and a constant.
1
"Liberals aren't heathens or antireligious"
Speak for yourself, some of us liberals are heathen/irreligious and proud of it.
Speak for yourself, some of us liberals are heathen/irreligious and proud of it.
1
You are wrong here, I am both anti-religion and a heathen. Religion has done far more damage than good in this world.
2
The only explanation offered in this article for the decline in religious identification is politics. What about science? Once Galileo proved that the religious view of the world as the center of universe was wrong, people had a solid basis to question faith. This questioning was likely accelerated by the discovery of dinosaur fossils and other science-related discoveries that are inconsistent with the Bible. Scientific discoveries are likely to continue to provide an increasing basis for people to identify as non-religious.
152
Exactly. It becomes harder to believe in God when the arguments for the existence of a powerful invisible pink unicorn are the same as those for God, and with so many cultures bumping up against each other on this tiny blue ball, it is more and more obvious that we should not be waging war to determine the one true religion of peace.
3
Recent advances in quantum theory may also contribute to people abandoning the Jesus model in favor of something more like a unified theory. Once could conclude the latter makes more sense. If, for example, If God is omnipotent, why would he have to kill his son to forgive us?
45
Killing one's son is totally contrary to the basic command you shall not kill. It makes God inconsistent and untrustworthy of his own word. it is nonsense!
7
Who was the price of wickedness owed to? God? And you say God is his son are the same thing. So if I am understanding you, you are saying God killed himself to pay himself? So God is dead?
1
Forgive us for what? I haven't done anything that needs forgiving by an omniscient, omnipotent God. What hogwash! Whitman said it as well as anyone:
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd,
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things,
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd,
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things,
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.
6
SO, freedom of religion is fast-becoming freedom from religion. Separation of Church and State is becoming separation of Church. More curious would be the reading of Article 6, which prohibits religious tests as qualification for office. Could newer generations use article 6 to ban presidential candidates from pitching themselves on the basis of their religion? The grounds certainly exist. If God is the stated reason for a candidate's pro-abortion stance, well then, that could be increasingly be read as self-disqualification (according to article 6). The bigger question however is, who's listening?
74
Conservative politicians, those purchased by the 1%, have converted Christian love into hate, contentment into fear, satisfaction into greed, cooperation into no-compromise, and love of all life into the love of all money. Liberal religions, such as Unitarian Universalism, are growing rapidly by emphasizing love and the fundamental value of the Golden Rule.
288
But yet the liberals love to bus certain church groups to the polls. Funny how some church people are good and others are bad.
1
Moral values are not the exclusive domain of religion. They are necessary conditions for the survival of the human species which has a preponderance of self destruction.
5
Liberal religions (such as socially active Protestant churches, Unitarianism, Quakerism and others) are actually NOT growing, let alone rapidly. They are dying out. The only growth is in the most conservative religious faiths. Even this highly slanted article notes that Evangelicals have lost fewer numbers and percentages than mainstream churches.
4
I have never been contacted by these research people, so I wonder how accurate their results are. Regardless, 70 percent of adults considering themselves Christian is still very significant. Legal principles are derived in large part from biblical law, regardless of whether you want to be considered an agnostic. Why be critical of those who want to be Christian? The choice is yours.
8
Not sure where you're going with tying legal principles to biblical law but I think we are all in agreement that this nation is and always has been secular and shall remain as such.
5
I'm not critical of anything but you, counting everything nor wanting to 'be' any religion makes the religious claims a fact. As is law is criminal if only in intent any way, traditional heritage of any kind that is. In that 'respect' I'm quite critical of those who call 'self' after nations as well, so relax.
1
"Why be critical of those who want to be Christian?"
One good reason, it seems to me, is that a large number - even, perhaps, a majority - of Christians refuse to speak out against those who are trying to re-brand it as a religion that worships wealth and ignore what I was taught are its basic tenets.
p.
p.
One good reason, it seems to me, is that a large number - even, perhaps, a majority - of Christians refuse to speak out against those who are trying to re-brand it as a religion that worships wealth and ignore what I was taught are its basic tenets.
p.
p.
8
Not sure the labels fit. Evangelical Christian types I see on television tend to judge and discriminate against various groups- not what I grew up thinking of as "Christian" values. Acceptance, inclusivity, generosity don't seem to fit very well with them.
The bargain made between Evangelicals and the GOP, whatever it was, doesn't seem to be serving either side very well. What we get are these politicians with this rigid set of things they preach. Every box must be checked, no deviations allowed. And of course the promises they make, they mostly can't or won't keep. Doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.
The bargain made between Evangelicals and the GOP, whatever it was, doesn't seem to be serving either side very well. What we get are these politicians with this rigid set of things they preach. Every box must be checked, no deviations allowed. And of course the promises they make, they mostly can't or won't keep. Doesn't seem like a match made in heaven.
111
The main reason that GOP politicians pander to the religiosos is because they want their votes and money -- pure and simple.
2
I'm not certain that I understand this. One can still be a "christian" and not necessarily belong to a church. It looks like membership has been confused with moral and ethical principles.
I don't belong to any church though I was raised in a family of catholics, but I would consider myself having "christian" morals and ethics when it comes to the treatment of living things.
I'm surprised anyone goes to a catholic church given their history of pedophilia and denial, but those who adhere to the teachings of the church must still consider themselves christian. or have they become Muslim as an alternative?
I don't belong to any church though I was raised in a family of catholics, but I would consider myself having "christian" morals and ethics when it comes to the treatment of living things.
I'm surprised anyone goes to a catholic church given their history of pedophilia and denial, but those who adhere to the teachings of the church must still consider themselves christian. or have they become Muslim as an alternative?
9
While I do not say it is a survey or scientific, I know a large number of people who are not affiliated with any specific church or congregation or denomination -- but who will tell you "but of course, I am still a CHRISTIAN". They believe in Jesus Christ and the basic moral principles of Christianity, but they either don't like their old church, OR they resent having to give up a Sunday morning to attend services, OR they hate dressing up for church, OR they dislike having to contribute money on a regular basis.
It is also not unusual among Christians OR Jews to stop attending a specific house of worship once the children are grown to adulthood. They have not all gone "atheist", they simply don't want the obligation of time, money or volunteer effort.
It is also not unusual among Christians OR Jews to stop attending a specific house of worship once the children are grown to adulthood. They have not all gone "atheist", they simply don't want the obligation of time, money or volunteer effort.
2
A few have become Muslim, yes. But many more are just more comfortable admitting in public that they don't believe, owing to the substantial attention garnered by outspoken and articulate atheists and agnostics in recent years.
2
Many are realizing they don't share the same interests as the 1%, that reason & science are preferable to superstition, that meds deliver greater relief than myths.
104
I'll never forget meeting David Kuo who headed the faith based office for GWBush. In the end, Kuo realized the GOP only wanted their votes, nothing else. When one sees "Christians" being so un-Christian, it's off-putting. Politics has poisoned religion.
142
Everything is politics.
1
Or has religion poisoned politics?
8
Religion poisoned politics too!
6
I dream of a time when a non-religious can become president of the United States and when the industry of religion can be regulated and taxed.
We will see a host of former pretend religious politicians starting to court the non-religious. The wind is turning, and they turn with the wind.
We will see a host of former pretend religious politicians starting to court the non-religious. The wind is turning, and they turn with the wind.
524
We've had plenty of non-religious presidents in the US regardless of what you think you see. And we've had some that had regular talks with God that were war-mongers, charlatans and liars.
Let us not forget that the brilliant Ronald Reagan regularly consulted an Astrologer.
Let us not forget that the brilliant Ronald Reagan regularly consulted an Astrologer.
10
Actually you can make a case that Lincoln was that. Although he extolled some virtues of religion both because they were right and also him being PC, but he never joined a religion/denomination of any kind and rarely went to church..
4
Finally....the tide is turning.
73
We dont need freedom of religion; we need freedom FROM religion. This article gives me real hope.
706
We do have freedom from religion in this country. That is why we are not experiencing the horror stories in the Middle East and other countries.
You can thank the founding fathers, Lincoln to name a few and others.
You can thank the founding fathers, Lincoln to name a few and others.
Agreed. Freedom of religion without freedom from religion is almost worthless.
2
I don't need a book or a label to lead a moral life. Frankly, the hypocrisy of organized religion and their (all of them) meddling in the lives of others and the operation of a secular government is enough for me to steer clear. Be that as it may, I have no qualms with those who do align themselves with a religion of their choosing, so long as they are not pushing to have their version of morality legislated to all others.
414
There is one organized religion that doesn't try to proselytize or force its principles on others. The Unitarian Universalists (UU's) welcome "nones," agnostics, atheists, and those from faith traditions such as Christianity and Judaism. There are no creeds or specific statements of doctrine. The denomination and its churches and societies provide a welcoming and loving community to those who want to be "spiritual but not religious." UU's generally follow a set of denominational principles, but these are non-binding. They can be found at uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles
6
But why is it okay for you to push to have your non-religious based version of morality legislated to others? Laws enforce some kind of moral code.
2
Ed - I don't know how to break it to you but the U.S. is not a theocracy.
5
To me this is a very encouraging trend and, as the survey results indicated, one that is likely to continue.
I was raised in the Methodist Church and am now in my early 60's. Once I left my parent's house to go to college I stopped going to church altogether. In my early 40's I came to the conclusion that Agnosticism best described my spiritual views.
So many of the super natural tenets of the Christian religion stopped making any sense to me as I entered adulthood and learned to think critically for myself. I now look to science and explanations that are verifiable as the ways to understand our physical world.
I don't need any organized religion as a basis for my moral values. I simply try to be the best person I can be and treat others with respect and dignity.
I was raised in the Methodist Church and am now in my early 60's. Once I left my parent's house to go to college I stopped going to church altogether. In my early 40's I came to the conclusion that Agnosticism best described my spiritual views.
So many of the super natural tenets of the Christian religion stopped making any sense to me as I entered adulthood and learned to think critically for myself. I now look to science and explanations that are verifiable as the ways to understand our physical world.
I don't need any organized religion as a basis for my moral values. I simply try to be the best person I can be and treat others with respect and dignity.
341
I have had the same experience. As a former Sunday School teacher, I still enjoy going to church with my mother when I return for Christmas, but that's about it. It's just too hard to square the 13.7 billion years old age of the universe with the Bible creation story. I've stopped trying.
6
Mktguy: I did the same as you when I would travel to visit my grandmother who was very religious. I would go to her church services with her because it made her happy.
5
If everybody tapped into the innate spirituality that we posses the world would be a better place because their spirituality would not be wrapped up in power and control as it is now with all organized religion. It would rather come from within you and in the process empower you, not the church.
2
While I am sure there are many causes and reasons for the decline, I cannot help but think that the, well, "popularity" of actually saying publicly or even on a survey that you are non-Christian, agnostic, atheist, or "other than Christian" has much to do with conversations on social media. When people can see that they are not alone in their lack of belief and/or interest, they become more comfortable with declaring it.
55
As I have been saying, in the USA today the only right that is guaranteed is the right to make a profit. I guess I should add that as a consequence, the only values that are widely shared are getting rich and buying stuff. Traditional Christianity is going out of favor because it clings to non-materialistic values. Evangelical churches on the other hand have adopted the business model and they know how to pander to their customers.
But what explains the fashionable appeal of the Atheist faith? I think they are peddling self-regard. "Aren't we clever to have freed ourselves from those silly old superstitions"?
But what explains the fashionable appeal of the Atheist faith? I think they are peddling self-regard. "Aren't we clever to have freed ourselves from those silly old superstitions"?
2
To Paul Easton, it's hardly "self-regard." My own path started in early adolescence, struggling with so many evangelical beliefs that didn't make sense to me. Scientific thinking made sense to me, even as a young girl. But imagine the private conflict I felt, alone, disbelieving. This was in the 50's and 60's. To arrive into atheism was hard won, and was also due to a growing fascination with what REALLY is the case, what is reality.
5
I long for the day when politicians don't need to lie about their faith in order to get elected. While the numbers in this story are encouraging, atheists are still the most reviled group in America. (Barney Frank couldn't come out of the atheist closet until after leaving office.)
If 23% of adults are religiously unaffiliated, and the educated and affluent are more likely to be non-believers, then of our 535 Senators and Representatives (an educated and affluent group) I'd guess there must be at least 100 closeted atheists/agnostics, likely many more.
It's time to come out of the closet already!
If 23% of adults are religiously unaffiliated, and the educated and affluent are more likely to be non-believers, then of our 535 Senators and Representatives (an educated and affluent group) I'd guess there must be at least 100 closeted atheists/agnostics, likely many more.
It's time to come out of the closet already!
270
I am pretty much an "in the closet" Agnostic. To be honest, I do feel somewhat uncomfortable about openly declaring it. In the past, when my Agnosticism has come up in certain conversations, some people have reacted negatively or in such a way that indicated they did not understand what being Agnostic represented.
I look forward to the day when those of us who consider themselves to be secular can discuss it openly without fear of any sort of reprisal, including openly secular candidates running for (and being elected to) public office.
I look forward to the day when those of us who consider themselves to be secular can discuss it openly without fear of any sort of reprisal, including openly secular candidates running for (and being elected to) public office.
28
I concur with the statement about lying about thier faith. In fact, many of them almost have to be closet atheists. What person would otherwise claim that he knows what an omnipotent, omniscient being wants? That person must not fear being called into question by that supernatural being.
4
Flatlander, do yourself a favor and come out of the closet. I hate to see people carry secrets around. I've been an open atheist for most of my 55 years and virtually no one has ever bothered me about it since I'm an adult and barely before that. In fact, when you do come out, a number of people will likely confess to you their secret disbelief or doubts - you are not alone. Sure, some people won't like it and think poorly of you, but that is life. I have discussed atheism with evangelicals in the Bible Belt and elsewhere and all anyone wanted to do was convert me by persuasion. If someone gets upset, you don't need to discuss it with them. That's their problem. Besides, if LGTBs can come out, why can't atheists? They risk far more antipathy and stigmatism from their family and society than we do. In fact, if you are agnostic, you are only expressing doubt and will find many more people than you thought have the same doubts you do.
15
As most of us already know, the 3 Abrahamic religions share a common root. Abraham was a great Babylonian sage that dedicated his life to teach those of his time about the concept of unity. Throughout history the Jews have done a great job at being an example of how unity can ultimately lead a small group of people to achieve great power and influence. Along came Jesus that reiterated the "golden rule" of those before him -- the rule of "Love thy neighbor as thyself", or more practically "that which you don't like don't do to others". The latter being attributed to Rabbi Hillel who lived around the time of Jesus. Islam teaches this very same rule -- almost all religions -- each with their own variety of diction. The overall point being made here is that religion is only a clothing, an identity, and a method that we've become accustomed to. Granted we are practicing under the right intentions, we see that underneath all of the labeling there is a commonality that we all share. Namely, we are all humans that seek happiness, pleasure, and do all we can to avoid suffering and pain. We are slowing starting to understand that it doesn't require religion to practice the aforementioned precepts. In doing so, we allow ourselves to be more open to all walks of life without any negation of a person's values or beliefs. Moreover, we live in an interconnected world that forces us to maintain connections and respect for others in order to sustain a healthy, tasteful, and meaningful life.
29
ZAbraham wasn't from Babylon.
2
The growth of political Christianity, and the hijacking of the religion's core message as a vehicle for open hate and disdain of the different, protection of the most greedy among us, and a sort of xenophobic nationalism, was bound to have a corrosive effect on the religion itself. Younger people today, living in a multi-ethnic country and world linked by technology, with a worldview that is wider and less fearful of others, but with increasingly limited economic options, see no particular reason to affiliate with a religion that has, in the public eye, largely become a protector and an apologist for all of the counter-trends against these things.
The "fundamentalist" Christians and the far right they've allied with have given a public face of seething hate, castigation, and exclusion to a faith that was supposed to be about universal love and inclusiveness.
The "fundamentalist" Christians and the far right they've allied with have given a public face of seething hate, castigation, and exclusion to a faith that was supposed to be about universal love and inclusiveness.
699
The goal is to provide those disillusioned youths someone to blame. That is the role that organized religion has undertaken in it's partnership with the political machine/GOP. And, of course, as we know...that's all about getting that key demographic vote.
9
Nothing ever supposed to be anything but a political excuse, period
To Al O: Sadly, you have precisely summarized the situation. It makes me sick that people like John Boehner, Paul Ryan, the majority of the Supreme Court, and other officials call themselves "Christians" when they enact laws and policies exactly counter to the teachings of Jesus. Where is mercy? Where is justice? Where is love? I don't see much evidence of these qualities in our economic system, our criminal "justice" system, our educational system--any of our systems--today.
11
Religions form bonds (that's what the word actually means), but they also draw borders. And borders spawn conflict.
In our long climb out of our Pithicine past we needed them to explain the many questions for which we had no answers. But now they are becoming relics, just a few more sets of stone tools like the Oldowan and Acheulean hand axes now at home only in museums.
If only the other faiths would take the same course we could be free of so much strife.
In our long climb out of our Pithicine past we needed them to explain the many questions for which we had no answers. But now they are becoming relics, just a few more sets of stone tools like the Oldowan and Acheulean hand axes now at home only in museums.
If only the other faiths would take the same course we could be free of so much strife.
18
Philosophy is the study of questions that cannot be answered.
Religion is the belief in answers that cannot be questioned.
Religion is the belief in answers that cannot be questioned.
29
The Republican attempt to sever reason and compassion from religion has made religion unpalatable to many. The Republican exploitation of the church, which sought to make the church a primary delivery mechanism for Republican Party politics, is finally generating alienation from the church. These strike me as sound and sensible reactions against the church.
549
Perfectly observed.
4
Raised in a mainline active Protestant family and a conservative Republican for decades I nevertheless abhore the opportunistic appropriation of Christianity for political purposes by people with no commitment to its spiritual or ethical values. It is for show and exploitation, capitalizing on the mentally-impoverished and fearful to project claims of moral significance when in fact political Christianity is primarily about mobilization in support of rapacious economic elites. The Bible tells us Christ drove money-changers from the temple while today's make-believe Christians embrace them and offer a favored place near the altar. They are usurpers preying on the weak-minded, not believers letting their behavior bear witness to their faith.
871
Do you believe in nations though?, how silly it may seem to ask such a question nations (just like religions) claim to have authority over those who live their entire life under them. Do you believe in traditional heritage by law?
1
As a non-believer for lo, these six decades, please allow me to commend your stance, usa999. What American needs these days, it seems to me, is a lot more people like you speaking their convictions. An uphill battle, but do not falter!
p.
p.
15
usa999....Well stated, Thanks. While a retired Lutheran pastor, I would not have to be a believing Christian, to agree with the word "abhore" as a word descriptive of my reaction to the self-pronounced Self-Righteousness seen and heard in the Repulsive Republican "front-runners" in this Life-Long Election. In my weakened Stroke-related mind, I believe some Believers will choose to stifle their expression of Faith, rather than be involved in identification with such public exposure of Political verbalization by those
indicated. I also believe that I have had Muslim friends, in the past, who are among the "Silent Peaceful", who would disavow Muslim violence. We have
need for discussion within Christian presence....the same way expressed by
Ayaan Hirsi Ali..."Why Islam Needs Reformation Now". Usa999, Thank You for your more lucid words....appreciated at the top of "Commenters" for good reason.
indicated. I also believe that I have had Muslim friends, in the past, who are among the "Silent Peaceful", who would disavow Muslim violence. We have
need for discussion within Christian presence....the same way expressed by
Ayaan Hirsi Ali..."Why Islam Needs Reformation Now". Usa999, Thank You for your more lucid words....appreciated at the top of "Commenters" for good reason.
7
These days, joining a Christian congregation requires committing to a political program these days, greatly diluting the spiritual experience. No wonder many young people are not committed to the religions of their parents.
As for the growth of non-Christian faiths, yes, it's a little more than a 1% increase in the total population. Viewed differently, it's more than a 25% increase in those of non-Christian faith, which is notable.
As for the growth of non-Christian faiths, yes, it's a little more than a 1% increase in the total population. Viewed differently, it's more than a 25% increase in those of non-Christian faith, which is notable.
57
Really? No one asks one their political affiliation in my church, and our Rector presages the Gospel from the pulpit, not politics. Don't know where yore looking in San Francisco, but clearly you haven't looked very hard.
7
If the GOP were to cease its attempts to exploit religion and the religious, it would likely hasten its return to something other than a tool for the wealthy. If nothing else, it would have to develop a platform aimed at a significant portion of the population not dependent upon their prejudices and blind spots.
Would this drive fewer people from the Christian faith that plays so central a role in current GOP propaganda? Perhaps so. Perhaps religious leaders will recognize this and take those necessary steps to protect their cultures on their own.
It doesn't take a great leap to recognize that this is just another consequence of the weakening of the wall between church and state, which clearly has a cost on both sides.
...Andrew
Would this drive fewer people from the Christian faith that plays so central a role in current GOP propaganda? Perhaps so. Perhaps religious leaders will recognize this and take those necessary steps to protect their cultures on their own.
It doesn't take a great leap to recognize that this is just another consequence of the weakening of the wall between church and state, which clearly has a cost on both sides.
...Andrew
35
Republicans only appeal to the religious because the religious choose belief over evidence, so they are easy to convince, and Republicans need that demographic to promote their policies that favor an extremely small portion of the population.
As there are no alternatives to the republican faithful, once the demographic shrinks, republicans will loose the class war they are fighting.
They are aware of this and are trying to extract as much wealth as possible before that happens.
As there are no alternatives to the republican faithful, once the demographic shrinks, republicans will loose the class war they are fighting.
They are aware of this and are trying to extract as much wealth as possible before that happens.
47
And religion provides for a lot of confirmation bias if you have the right person interpreting it for you.
7
Pithy and right on. Republican strategy leaders are rarely stupid, just without soul and demonstrably against the people of America en masse.
Stealing from the group well before they can be stopped, how virtuous is that?
Stealing from the group well before they can be stopped, how virtuous is that?
6
Welcome to the 21st century.
Atheist, agnostic, unaffiliated, and none-of-the-above are all improvements on identification with organized religion: they represent a grown-up way to understand the world. Morality and religious belief are independent variables; the presence of one does not indicate the presence of the other.
Atheist, agnostic, unaffiliated, and none-of-the-above are all improvements on identification with organized religion: they represent a grown-up way to understand the world. Morality and religious belief are independent variables; the presence of one does not indicate the presence of the other.
803
A grown-up way to understand the world would implement that the presence of it does not indicate the presence of nations either, nor monetary claims of ownership well beyond any individual's needs and desires. Rich fantasy and traditional heritage are 1 and the same as well, as a matter of fact; the gods remain optional.
6
My thoughts exactly. It sounds like Americans are finally growing up. In the Netherlands only 10% of the population believes in God. The lack of religion allows them to think, instead of clinging to old edicts on blind faith. In the government, thinking gives them freedom to make decisions based on morality, compassion and logic. On an individual basis, thinking, without the strictures of arbitrary religious beliefs, contributes to more honesty, healthier sexuality, and greater happiness overall. http://www.livescience.com/50613-happiest-countries.html
68
True, however, I believe that religion provides a framework in which the simple can be trained in moral values. Without that, we see problems like out-of-wedlock birth. Atheism seems to work better for educated people with middle-class values.
6
I wonder what these numbers might have been had not the evangelical cohort politicized their convictions after 9/11. They made patriotism in a politically fraught moment equivalent to belief in God. I can attest that I found the requirement to agree with George Bush's Iraq policy if I were to remain an evangelical Christian completely impossible to swallow. And, as I examined the line of argument, I found that belief as an evangelical also seemed to require me to support various political causes, including the Republican ticket. This stunk, and it turned me off of religion entirely. As my religion happened to be evangelical Christianity, well, there you have it.
382
Used as a litmus test that one must pass in order to be a true Christian or a real American. It was (and is) very off-putting. My journey is similar to yours.
33
News flash. Most Christian churches are not what you describe. There are wonderful churches out there, filled with bright, well-educated thoughtful people, worshiping together and trying to find and be found by God.
9
I made a switch from Republican to Democrat with the excitement of electing Barack Obama. I have not been disappointed and (maybe rightly or wrongly) I regard him as a fellow Christian. As a social worker raised by a socialist father, I have always held humanitarian concerns, civil rights, to be paramount. I don't check any of these values at the door when I attend worship in a mainline historic church around the corner. Yes numbers are dwindling. The brownstone, the stained glass, the old hymns and the new concerns for diversity and elimination of prejudice, the acceptance of gay marriage.. many elements come together in modern mainline denominations!
8
None of the commentators offer anything better, except smug statements about “freedom from superstition” or the like. We may be more educated than those of the past, but the problems we face in society today are same ones that humans have struggled with since the beginning or recorded history.
If you actually read the words of Christ, you might be surprised at how useful they are in solving these problems. But remember this also, Christ said he was the Son of God. That he came to atone (pay for) the sins of those who would forsake their sins and believe on his name so that they could be reconciled with His Father, our Father in Heaven, who is a loving being who sent us here with absolute freedom to choose how to live and who is not responsible for our selfishness, anger, or other shortcomings. Our Heavenly Father wants us to improve in this life and return to live with him by means of the Atonement wrought by the unblemished Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
Sadly, Christ said:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were