Saudis seems to be moving towards pro Islamist Wahabis,which is a threat to world peace and religious diversity practiced by many Asian and western nations.Sooner the world slow down on the dependence on the Blood of the Mother Earth(oil) earlier we can get relieved of religious fundamentalism.Hope west and other industrialized nations will move towards this goal.
3
The 1992 war in the Gulf was a big mistake. The U.S. ambassor to Iraq (woman unfortunatly) told Saddam Hussein that the U.S. would look the other way if Iraq invaded Kuwait to get back the oil the Kuwaiti's oiler drillers stole from Iraqi oil fields. Saddam Hussein believed her. And the Iraqi army went off to invade Kuwait.
Sure enough, George Bush senior denied ever saying that. And off to war he went. We went in to Iraqi with all our stupid allies, and put a flame thrower to every stationary object in sight- people and tanks both.
It was a ludicrous adventure used to try out our 'Patriot" missiles and kill thousands of innocent people.. What a farce.
And again ten years later George Bush Junior comes along and drags us off to Afghantistan and then into Iraq for a 2nd time.
All of these adventures into the middle east were big mistakes.
We could have gotten Osama bin Laden covertly without invading another country and our image in the World wouldn't be the dispicalbe sham it is today.
When you continuously invade and humiliate another country or another people such as the Muslims, little by little the hatred grows and festures into a wound that will never heal.
The George Bushes of these country, have brought us to the brink of destruction both financially and militarily.
What a pity.
All
Sure enough, George Bush senior denied ever saying that. And off to war he went. We went in to Iraqi with all our stupid allies, and put a flame thrower to every stationary object in sight- people and tanks both.
It was a ludicrous adventure used to try out our 'Patriot" missiles and kill thousands of innocent people.. What a farce.
And again ten years later George Bush Junior comes along and drags us off to Afghantistan and then into Iraq for a 2nd time.
All of these adventures into the middle east were big mistakes.
We could have gotten Osama bin Laden covertly without invading another country and our image in the World wouldn't be the dispicalbe sham it is today.
When you continuously invade and humiliate another country or another people such as the Muslims, little by little the hatred grows and festures into a wound that will never heal.
The George Bushes of these country, have brought us to the brink of destruction both financially and militarily.
What a pity.
All
1
The sooner renewables can be brought online the better. Distancing from Saudi Arabia and other such countries can't come soon enough.
1
There's a certain amount of freedom that derives from having sufficient oil resources coming out of your own soil, an airy feeling of not having to kiss the feet of fanatical Arab dictators who export a dangerous form of Islam that has given rise to crazed jihadi movements throughout the Middle East.
And it's also liberating to know that the need for oil from Saudi Arabia won't incite us to send our young men and women to die in a futile war against Iran, just to avoid long lines at the pump.
And it's also liberating to know that the need for oil from Saudi Arabia won't incite us to send our young men and women to die in a futile war against Iran, just to avoid long lines at the pump.
2
It is amazing that the Saudis state publicly their concerns for US support. This is the same family that funded thousands of extremist Madrassas throughout SW Asia - advocating violence against the infidels, the same family that at least two Princes provided financial support to the 9/11 terrorists, and the same family that wants to bankrupt the US fracking firms whose production of oil has contributed to oil dropping from 100+ to $50 a bbl. And these are our friends?
3
Saudi Arabia is defending a strict Sunni faith from liberals, infidels, and Shiites, and is angry with us for not backing them up as we used to. They spread a version of Islam in Afghanistan and Pakistan that helped us work with them to defeat the Soviet occupation, but also was extremist enough to make horrible things happen in Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated. Now the schools they supported are bringing chaos to Pakistan.
If they were spreading a version of Islam that was open to woman's rights and democratic governance, their efforts to guide events would be productive. But they are spreading a version of Islam that easily leads to fanaticism and religious wars and does nothing to correct the endemic Islamic inability to have political stability without kings and dictators. Iran is at least searching for other models of Islamic governance.
If they were spreading a version of Islam that was open to woman's rights and democratic governance, their efforts to guide events would be productive. But they are spreading a version of Islam that easily leads to fanaticism and religious wars and does nothing to correct the endemic Islamic inability to have political stability without kings and dictators. Iran is at least searching for other models of Islamic governance.
11
Egypt is not Saudi Arabia.
Iran is ot searching for another form of governance, it is engaged in imperial, terrorist, policies.
But heh, Obama supporters are expected to just say sti
Iran is ot searching for another form of governance, it is engaged in imperial, terrorist, policies.
But heh, Obama supporters are expected to just say sti
1
Who did you say is bombing Yemen? Who destabilized Syria? What nations supports Sunni terror, AQ and the rise of ISIS? Not Iran.
3
King Salman is making foreign policy mistakes left and right but as to the following, from the accompanying Cooper report,
"The Arab nations are also angry, officials and experts said, about comments Mr. Obama recently made in an interview with The New York Times, in which he said allies like Saudi Arabia should be worried about internal threats — “populations that, in some cases, are alienated, youth that are underemployed, an ideology that is destructive and nihilistic, and in some cases, just a belief that there are no legitimate political outlets for grievances.”"
King Salman is spot on.
Another perfect example of the policyless foreign policy of the ship of fools in the WH who love to redefine issues to suit their rejection of foreign policy in favor of blather. It is because of them that I believe the bulk of the Hersh story i the London Review of Books. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
"The Arab nations are also angry, officials and experts said, about comments Mr. Obama recently made in an interview with The New York Times, in which he said allies like Saudi Arabia should be worried about internal threats — “populations that, in some cases, are alienated, youth that are underemployed, an ideology that is destructive and nihilistic, and in some cases, just a belief that there are no legitimate political outlets for grievances.”"
King Salman is spot on.
Another perfect example of the policyless foreign policy of the ship of fools in the WH who love to redefine issues to suit their rejection of foreign policy in favor of blather. It is because of them that I believe the bulk of the Hersh story i the London Review of Books. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
3
His biggest mistake may be the domestic one. Once the 'loyal' have spent their 30 percent coronation bonus they're going to start thinking that one of Ibn Saud's minor children has elected to undo the succession and enshrine his family as the future of Saudi Arabia. There are an awful lot of newly disenfranchised nephews and cousins, as well as a couple of younger brothers, with their retinues, wondering why Salman has broken tradition so wantonly.
I'd say he has until Christmas to show success in Yemen, or in Syria or the knives could be out for a palace coup. Others have gotten 'the chop' for far less.
I'd say he has until Christmas to show success in Yemen, or in Syria or the knives could be out for a palace coup. Others have gotten 'the chop' for far less.
Saudi Arabia is playing a dangerous power politic game that may hasten its demise. It has a small population of about 30 millions, the majority of which receives government's handouts and whose lifestyle is supported by an army of foreign workers. There is no foundation for a strong sustainable economy and an educated and progressive middle class. Socially, Saudi Arabia is a repressive and regressive society. The Saudi rulers are working and plotting against the march of history. Even developing countries with a history of dictatorship are making slowly but surely progress on human rights and gender equality. If and when Saudi Arabia imploded from within, the US should do well to stand back.
5
Is this another teaching moment? What is worse, Bush mismanaging Iraq and (maybe) Afghanistan, or Obama mismanaging the entire Middle East?
Maybe it's time to consider giving back that hard-earned Nobel Peace Prize.
Oh, and just by the way, a dumb question, where was Mrs. Clinton all this time?
Maybe it's time to consider giving back that hard-earned Nobel Peace Prize.
Oh, and just by the way, a dumb question, where was Mrs. Clinton all this time?
3
An old American saying may be an appropriate (albeit not diplomatic) response to King Salman's decision to not attend the Persian gulf leaders' meeting with President Obama in Washington. "Don't let the screen door hit you on your way out!"
Saudi Arabia has funded and tolerated terrorists within their country as long as they did not attack the monarchy. Remember that the majority of 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. More recently, the Saudis (Sunni) have gone after their enemies, the Shiite, in Qatar, Syria, and Yemen, and are now panicked because Iran is not only negotiating nuclear policy with us but has indicated that it will negotiate other issues, including Syria, with us. Saudi actions have exacerbated the power struggle between Sunni and Shiite and ensuing wars and terrorist acts. This has made it more difficult for us to broker peace or even extract ourselves.
We no longer need their oil enough to justify cooperating with a King who is happy to shoot us in the foot and then snub his nose at us.
ma'a as-salaama
Saudi Arabia has funded and tolerated terrorists within their country as long as they did not attack the monarchy. Remember that the majority of 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. More recently, the Saudis (Sunni) have gone after their enemies, the Shiite, in Qatar, Syria, and Yemen, and are now panicked because Iran is not only negotiating nuclear policy with us but has indicated that it will negotiate other issues, including Syria, with us. Saudi actions have exacerbated the power struggle between Sunni and Shiite and ensuing wars and terrorist acts. This has made it more difficult for us to broker peace or even extract ourselves.
We no longer need their oil enough to justify cooperating with a King who is happy to shoot us in the foot and then snub his nose at us.
ma'a as-salaama
7
Were US foreign policy sensible, we would regard Iran as a natural ally,
we would regard Saudi Arabia as a dangerous enemy,
and we would regard Israel as a "frenemy" -
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/11/23/israel-americas-biggest-fr...
which is not deserving of a blank check or diplomatic cover, *nor* the ongoing media obfuscation of its unequivocal war crimes...
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/israels-illegal-use-of-wh...
The Saudis and Israelis are both supporting Al Nusra, and may be supporting "ISIS" but what is clear is that it is not clear who is who, and a great many "moderate" terrorists joined up with ISIS, bringing their US supplied weapons with them.
In Syria/Iraq, and now in Libya and in Yemen, you have proxy wars fought by foreign mercenaries - terrorists - wehre both sides are largely or mainly using US weapons.
'Follow the money' a wise man once told me.
So then - who is profiting from all this death. They are likely the ones using the media to mislead the American public, and one only wishes that more Snowdens and Mannings would be willing to come forward.
we would regard Saudi Arabia as a dangerous enemy,
and we would regard Israel as a "frenemy" -
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/11/23/israel-americas-biggest-fr...
which is not deserving of a blank check or diplomatic cover, *nor* the ongoing media obfuscation of its unequivocal war crimes...
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/israels-illegal-use-of-wh...
The Saudis and Israelis are both supporting Al Nusra, and may be supporting "ISIS" but what is clear is that it is not clear who is who, and a great many "moderate" terrorists joined up with ISIS, bringing their US supplied weapons with them.
In Syria/Iraq, and now in Libya and in Yemen, you have proxy wars fought by foreign mercenaries - terrorists - wehre both sides are largely or mainly using US weapons.
'Follow the money' a wise man once told me.
So then - who is profiting from all this death. They are likely the ones using the media to mislead the American public, and one only wishes that more Snowdens and Mannings would be willing to come forward.
1
The article said it all buried somewhere 3/4's in. Salman is a known financial supporter of Jihadist's in Afghanistan. Translation. King Salman directly provided financial support to 9/11 and we're remotely concerned he's snubbing us? He should be more concerned that our heroine-like addiction to oil finally drives us to really occupy the so-called Holy Land. Here's an idea, take all your money out of any of the Too Big to Fail operation and find a way to support Elon Musk as soon as possible. "Change We Can Believe In" has got to be the most insidious misdirection of all time.
4
It's past time to continue down the path of alternative energy in the USA and just stop with making excuses.
Would the GOP (and the Dems) rather have Amur'ca stand on her own two feet, safe, secure and making jobs, or do they prefer to have the nation held economic hostage to this never ending nonsense in the MidEast ? Yes or No.
This mess cannot be solved by pouring more weapons and lives onto the pyre, plain to see, so it is darned well time to get the thumb out.
Tell Big Oil that the game has changed, thank you for your kind assistance in making Amur'ca great. However events have shown it's time to share a little room at the trough of Federal policy largess and actually promote alternative energy usage and conservation. Why? Because there is no other way to deal with this mess.
Hardly a socialist plot to crush America. Call it long term strategic policy.
Maybe call it recognizing reality and actually doing something to deal with it, instead of obfuscation and delay at the behest of secret cash cow sponsors.
End of story. How about some leadership instead of brickbats?
Would the GOP (and the Dems) rather have Amur'ca stand on her own two feet, safe, secure and making jobs, or do they prefer to have the nation held economic hostage to this never ending nonsense in the MidEast ? Yes or No.
This mess cannot be solved by pouring more weapons and lives onto the pyre, plain to see, so it is darned well time to get the thumb out.
Tell Big Oil that the game has changed, thank you for your kind assistance in making Amur'ca great. However events have shown it's time to share a little room at the trough of Federal policy largess and actually promote alternative energy usage and conservation. Why? Because there is no other way to deal with this mess.
Hardly a socialist plot to crush America. Call it long term strategic policy.
Maybe call it recognizing reality and actually doing something to deal with it, instead of obfuscation and delay at the behest of secret cash cow sponsors.
End of story. How about some leadership instead of brickbats?
1
With friends like the Saudis, who needs enemies?
10
You want to know why the US is allies with Saudi Arabia? Because when the "kingdom" was founded less than a hundred years ago, it received critical support from Britain and the United States who wanted to monopolize its suspected oil reserves. The colonial powers and the US tore apart the Middle East when it was weakest - they installed or propped up dictators, ravaged its resources, and set up invented countries in order to wage proxy wars. Jordan, Israel, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Yemen - their first leaders, governments, and borders contrived to suit Western interests, and now look at them, struggling to make order out of their inherited chaos.
I pray every day that someone with power in the US will wake up one day and realize that Westerners aren't God's gift to humanity, nor are they evil incarnate. Maybe, just maybe that person could convince the West that the reason it is so important in the world is not because their values are superior or their institutions more powerful. IT IS BECAUSE THEY INVENTED GUNS AND USED THEM TO TAKE ALL THE WORLD'S RESOURCES!
I pray every day that someone with power in the US will wake up one day and realize that Westerners aren't God's gift to humanity, nor are they evil incarnate. Maybe, just maybe that person could convince the West that the reason it is so important in the world is not because their values are superior or their institutions more powerful. IT IS BECAUSE THEY INVENTED GUNS AND USED THEM TO TAKE ALL THE WORLD'S RESOURCES!
3
Here's why .gov won't open a new investigation of 9/11 - to, at a minimum, address Building 7, and to address new building codes since apparently a single jet and fire can melt and pulverize the absolutely massive and redundant core columns of the towers - http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html ] is two fold:
1] Saudis, if not "the saudis" will be implicated and
2] Israel's massive spy ring, arrested and deported around the time of 9/11, at a minimum, will also be part of the discussion along with the "dancing Israelis of 9/11" urban moving systems, and Larry Silverstein's uncanny luck.
But so far, throwing out the word "conspiracy theory" does what it was designed to do - it gets people to stop thinking, and to simply refuse, a priori, to consider *any* of the purported evidence...
which is a good way to never do anything but believe what you are told.
1] Saudis, if not "the saudis" will be implicated and
2] Israel's massive spy ring, arrested and deported around the time of 9/11, at a minimum, will also be part of the discussion along with the "dancing Israelis of 9/11" urban moving systems, and Larry Silverstein's uncanny luck.
But so far, throwing out the word "conspiracy theory" does what it was designed to do - it gets people to stop thinking, and to simply refuse, a priori, to consider *any* of the purported evidence...
which is a good way to never do anything but believe what you are told.
1
There are a number of "our allies" in the middle east who align w/ al qaeda rather than risk Iran getting an advantage in any situation. I suggest those allies need to be cut loose.
5
King Salman is the best argument yet for renewable energy.
He's also what you get, what you always get, when an absolutist regime sees its power start to falter: a "firm hand" is brought in to "get tough" and put things back the way they were. But never to consider that, perhaps, this is impossible. you double-down on the past and hope the future goes away. It rarely works.
And finally, he's our fault. Ours, and the British.
He's also what you get, what you always get, when an absolutist regime sees its power start to falter: a "firm hand" is brought in to "get tough" and put things back the way they were. But never to consider that, perhaps, this is impossible. you double-down on the past and hope the future goes away. It rarely works.
And finally, he's our fault. Ours, and the British.
9
Ah, what a world when we have to look upon countries like Saudi Arabia and leaders like Salman as ALLIES. What a sad and sorry state of affairs.
10
Seymour Hersh, in his expose on 'killing of Bin Laden', says that, contrary to Obama's claim that raid on Abbotabad compound was conducted unknown to Pakistan's ISI and that OBL attacked the Seals who had to shoot him in self-defense, Osama was actually a prisoner being held and safeguarded by ISI, and that SAUDIS were providing funding to ensure Osama's wellbeing until he was killed in the raid.
Saudi's involvement with Osama's activities should make us all wonder why we are so cozy with the Saudis.
Saudi's involvement with Osama's activities should make us all wonder why we are so cozy with the Saudis.
2
It's really too bad that all the changes this monarch are making will not help his country in the slightest, and do nothing to stop the nullification of its existence which will occur this century.
Everyone always ignores the facts that Saudi Arabia has no lakes nor rivers, is draining its aquifer faster than it can possibly be replenished, and is as subject to global warming as the rest of the planet. Since its population, and thus water usage, keeps increasing, it should be completely uninhabitable by the year 2100 and likely even sooner.
None of the King's changes address that, they're all about scrabbling for power amongst the religious and tribal wars that are characteristic of the region. So the area can keep fighting over the growing desert until there's nothing to fight over, and the refugees are taken in by the kind countries and slain by the less kind. And the entire society, and its misogynistic and backward viewpoint, will cease to exist, and the world will be better off for it.
Everyone always ignores the facts that Saudi Arabia has no lakes nor rivers, is draining its aquifer faster than it can possibly be replenished, and is as subject to global warming as the rest of the planet. Since its population, and thus water usage, keeps increasing, it should be completely uninhabitable by the year 2100 and likely even sooner.
None of the King's changes address that, they're all about scrabbling for power amongst the religious and tribal wars that are characteristic of the region. So the area can keep fighting over the growing desert until there's nothing to fight over, and the refugees are taken in by the kind countries and slain by the less kind. And the entire society, and its misogynistic and backward viewpoint, will cease to exist, and the world will be better off for it.
6
I see that the Saudi King is not attending Obama's summit at Camp David. I think he has a lot of nerve considering how much protection the US military affords his country. I don't see thundering editorials denouncing the unelected King for "insulting" the US, as we would if the elected leader of Israel were to pull such a stunt. Quite a double standard.
4
I would hope that this signals a change in our relationship with the Saudis. Just think how much American treasure and how many lives we have lost over the last few decades fighting their wars for them.
5
Who needs this royal theocratic fossil fuel extremist tyrant Wahhabi Sunni Muslim Arab King Salman "ally"?
America does not need any more al Qaeda's and it's affiliates nor ISIS/ISIL nor al Nusra Front nor successors to Osama Bin Laden nor to the fifteen 9/11/01 hijackers nor to any sectarian Shia and Sunni Muslim conflict nor Jewish, Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant wars nor to any ethnic battles with Turks, Persians, Kurds or Israelis and Arabs.
There are only 26 million Saudis among 320 million Arabs including 80 million Egyptians, 80 million Turks, 80 million Persians, 35 million Kurds and 8 million Israelis. American arms
America does not need Saudi oil nor Saudi extremist autocrats to manufacture any more American enemies. Israel and Egypt are already making more American enemies than we can reasonably handle.
America does not need any more al Qaeda's and it's affiliates nor ISIS/ISIL nor al Nusra Front nor successors to Osama Bin Laden nor to the fifteen 9/11/01 hijackers nor to any sectarian Shia and Sunni Muslim conflict nor Jewish, Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant wars nor to any ethnic battles with Turks, Persians, Kurds or Israelis and Arabs.
There are only 26 million Saudis among 320 million Arabs including 80 million Egyptians, 80 million Turks, 80 million Persians, 35 million Kurds and 8 million Israelis. American arms
America does not need Saudi oil nor Saudi extremist autocrats to manufacture any more American enemies. Israel and Egypt are already making more American enemies than we can reasonably handle.
7
We should continue our efforts to disengage and distance ourselves from these decades old alliances of guaranteeing anyone's security for the sake of cheap oil. Simultaneously, we should be developing a comprehensive strategic plan to make the United States energy independent once and for all.
The Middle East is going to be a very tumultuous place for decades to come as these nations & tribal fiefdoms vie for a realignment of power in the region. Therefore it is imperative that we do not continue to take sides while they sort it all out.
The best way to avoid continued entanglement is to dramatically reduce our energy dependence on this volatile area of the world. Let's think long term for a change and stop being held hostage by this economic stranglehold that is costing us more in blood, treasure & prestige than it is worth......especially when we have the means and the wherewithal to do otherwise.
The Middle East is going to be a very tumultuous place for decades to come as these nations & tribal fiefdoms vie for a realignment of power in the region. Therefore it is imperative that we do not continue to take sides while they sort it all out.
The best way to avoid continued entanglement is to dramatically reduce our energy dependence on this volatile area of the world. Let's think long term for a change and stop being held hostage by this economic stranglehold that is costing us more in blood, treasure & prestige than it is worth......especially when we have the means and the wherewithal to do otherwise.
2
OK, tell me again: why are we still in Middle East???
2
The Saudis need to change their attitude towards the Shiites. Instead of seeing them as their biggest threat, they should try to seek cooperation with Iran on climate change, water scarcity, Islamic terrorism etc. These issues pose a much bigger threat to the region than hegemonic struggle.
15
It's "our friends, the Saudis." How many times did we hear that description, especially during the Bush (I & II) years? Their 9/11 role has never been satisfactorily explained. They still chop off heads and appendages there and indulge in other behaviors which are hideously primitive. Their attraction for us was their oil and ours for them was our money. Not much other common ground save for military hardware. Now that our oil production is substantial, there's no need for pretense or chasing after them.
3
Maybe he sees a future in Russian jet aircraft. They are very good.
President Obama is setting up his approval of the Keystone XL pipeline. Smart move.
The Iranian system is clearly superior to the Saudi Arabian corporation. That's why the despotic oil corporation is lashing out against the Persian culture. Saudi Arabia is unsustainable.
14
IMHO the house of Saud is very much like a drug cartel, only instead of slinging horse or coke they sell crude. Now they find that the addicts they used to be able to depend on them are either gradually weaning themselves off their product (Germany) or learning to produce more of it cheaper at home. The entire Saudi economy is built on the world's addiction to their poison. Now they're finally waking up to the fact that the rest of us will one day kick the habit, if only because the supply will run out - and they're panicked.
13
Philip Pompano Beach, FL
"...Moreover, we are no longer dependent on the region for domestic energy, though many multinational companies with large US work forces depend on profits from the region to sell the oil there to others. The US government sees almost nothing in return from propping up these companies in terms of tax revenue, so perhaps they would be best to hire mercenaries at their own expense to protect their interests, instead of relying on the lives of America's youth and the tax dollars of America's middle class. The days of OPEC being able to shut down America are long over."
--------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Phillip for your wise words. I would also like to add that our U.S. employees working abroad are also able to exclude right at $100k a year in earnings. In other words not only do the muti-nationals companyies NOT pay U.S. tax but our U.S. expats are NOT paying tax to our country. Let them pay their own $$ for their safety. I am sick and tired of this.
"...Moreover, we are no longer dependent on the region for domestic energy, though many multinational companies with large US work forces depend on profits from the region to sell the oil there to others. The US government sees almost nothing in return from propping up these companies in terms of tax revenue, so perhaps they would be best to hire mercenaries at their own expense to protect their interests, instead of relying on the lives of America's youth and the tax dollars of America's middle class. The days of OPEC being able to shut down America are long over."
--------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Phillip for your wise words. I would also like to add that our U.S. employees working abroad are also able to exclude right at $100k a year in earnings. In other words not only do the muti-nationals companyies NOT pay U.S. tax but our U.S. expats are NOT paying tax to our country. Let them pay their own $$ for their safety. I am sick and tired of this.
5
Sounds like Saudi's new king went to the Bibi school of diplomacy. Can we stop calling these brutal despots allies?
11
Ridiculous. Saudi Arabia depends on us; had we not stopped Saddam Hussein, they would have been dead in the water. And as we become less and less dependent on their oil, it's they that need to court us, no the other way around.
3
Meanwhile, Jeb reportedly considers George W. Bush to be one of his top foreign policy advisers. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jeb-reportedly-considers-george-w-bush-a-...
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jeb-reportedly-considers-george-w-bush-a-...
22
It wouldn't be surprising if the neo-cons (Jeb Bush included) were pushing for a more activist role from King Salman that upends the delicate balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Nor would it come as a shock if they advised him to cancel his meeting with Obama.
In any case, the cancelation may have been a way for Salman to avoid loosing face. If he comes away from the meeting without getting what he wants, he looks weak. However, if Salman doesn't show, the Obama administration has even less reason to cave into Saudi demands.
We're seeing the break-up of the old ME into something less stable and more terrifying. Iran is slowly going in the direction of progress and that's where our emphasis needs to be. If King Salman thinks that the Americans will blame Obama for the cancelled meeting, he is delusional. There's little love for Saudi Arabia here, except among the neocons.
In any case, the cancelation may have been a way for Salman to avoid loosing face. If he comes away from the meeting without getting what he wants, he looks weak. However, if Salman doesn't show, the Obama administration has even less reason to cave into Saudi demands.
We're seeing the break-up of the old ME into something less stable and more terrifying. Iran is slowly going in the direction of progress and that's where our emphasis needs to be. If King Salman thinks that the Americans will blame Obama for the cancelled meeting, he is delusional. There's little love for Saudi Arabia here, except among the neocons.
18
Oh, I see - it's still Bush's fault. Nothing to do with the guy in WH and his foreign policy whatsoever, nor with the ex Secretary of State.
So let me try to understand this, the Saudis are now using the Israeli lobbyists in Washington DC I read just awhile ago. So the Israelis and Saudis are united in their opposition to the USA's approach to the Iranian issue, and the other gulf states have mostly joined them in this opposition. Meanwhile, we are supporting all these countries financially and militarily as the oppose us, are we crazy or what?
29
it's all about oil, saudi's are responsible for 9/11, it was their training and money, but ya know, they do give us oil and our oil companies need to rule the world so the government pays for it.
1
The Saudi led campaign in Yemen is a tic for tat response to the recent victories over ISIS in Iraq, Kurdistan and Syria and the overt involvement of Iran's IRGC. They're also having a tantrum because the U.S. and the other members of the U.N. Security Counsel are negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran which (ironically) should improve security in the region. I'm not sure I should feel any safer with the new inexperienced and trigger happy ruling elite in the kingdom...
13
If the US is now truly independent on foreign oil such as from Saudi Arabia;It is time to wipe the entire middle slate clean and formulate a foreign policy that has the prioirty of the US FIRST,period. That includes the Saudis AS WELL As ISRAEL!!!! For too long our country as acted as a satellite state for these countries. LETS GO USA and act on our own principles of government and morality!! By trying to please everybody , you wind pleasing NO ONE and getting blamed for the sun rising every morning.
9
Fully agree. Now that we are energy independent, we only at our own interests in mind, maintain same friendly relations with the three major middle-east nations, Israel, Iran, Saudi Arabia; with no favoritism, no financial aid to anyone. They are all big boys and financially secure anyway. Time to have a principle based foreign policy and time to raise human rights violations against Saudi Arabia, who treat women as sub-humans.
So now Americans are livid that the Saudis are among 4 of 6 nations that have snubbed Obamas conference, joining Israel in the displeasure with US policy towards their aggressive neighbor, Iran. Maybe the U.S. should leave this region to work things out on their own and realize American imperialism is not helpful.
Sure these nations can be dogmatic verging on obnoxious but that's the nature of different cultures.
Israel no longer needs US funds -- they're a wealthy nation -- and the Saudis would likely be happy to make up the funding in any event in exchange for a quiet but mutually exclusive defense pact. Both will still cooperate with the U.S. to a reasonable degree, especially Israel who genuinely adores the U.S.
Both should be asked and allowed to stand on their own, as all countries should. Of course, that also means no more hypocritical hysterics when either country asserts self defense.
Sure these nations can be dogmatic verging on obnoxious but that's the nature of different cultures.
Israel no longer needs US funds -- they're a wealthy nation -- and the Saudis would likely be happy to make up the funding in any event in exchange for a quiet but mutually exclusive defense pact. Both will still cooperate with the U.S. to a reasonable degree, especially Israel who genuinely adores the U.S.
Both should be asked and allowed to stand on their own, as all countries should. Of course, that also means no more hypocritical hysterics when either country asserts self defense.
3
How is Iran an aggressive neighbor, but the Saudis, who support Salafist terrorists who are murdering Christians and other minorities in Syria and Iraq [they also have Israeli support, it seems] is not?
Not only should you not trust neocon assessments of Iran, if a neocon says it, you should therefore doubt it.
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/06/the-machiavelian-threefold-game-of-the-...
Not only should you not trust neocon assessments of Iran, if a neocon says it, you should therefore doubt it.
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/06/the-machiavelian-threefold-game-of-the-...
Our relationship with Saudi Arabia will endure so long as:
1. We are not energy independent
2. Our defense industry relies on weapon sales to the Saudis...better us than Russia or China or the EU ?
3. The strategic position of Saudi Arabia is more important than normalizing relations with Iran
4. The outcome of the religious- geopolitical conflict in the Middle East is uncertain
5. Relations between the Israelis and Palestinians fail to improve and Saudi Arabia is needed as a buffer zone.
If anyone has made his bed and has to lie in it, it's the US.
1. We are not energy independent
2. Our defense industry relies on weapon sales to the Saudis...better us than Russia or China or the EU ?
3. The strategic position of Saudi Arabia is more important than normalizing relations with Iran
4. The outcome of the religious- geopolitical conflict in the Middle East is uncertain
5. Relations between the Israelis and Palestinians fail to improve and Saudi Arabia is needed as a buffer zone.
If anyone has made his bed and has to lie in it, it's the US.
6
If you take oil and religion out of the Middle East one has NOTHING! A grayish, yellowish,gritty expanse of land that would be useless as a litterbox
15
Oil is the easiest mineral to take from the ground, but Arabia has others.
But Shhhhh! If our economy did not need oil to turn most of its wheels, Arabia would indeed be only a desert sparsely populated by fanatically-inclined people.
But Shhhhh! If our economy did not need oil to turn most of its wheels, Arabia would indeed be only a desert sparsely populated by fanatically-inclined people.
1
He also has also garnered no support for any grand plan that can be continued once Obama is gone. This time of Obama will be the Great Tearing Down of so much, leaving us with no idea of what is next. quotes about life
1
We've long cultivated our relationship with the Saudi's and now tacitly, as well as militarily, support their policies and actions. We sanction Russia, there is a strong BDS movement against Israel. I have difficulties understanding the deafening silence directed towards the fabulously wealthy, oil-producing Saudi's.
Perhaps it's greed, fear, or maybe lack of knowledge by those who are just learning about the world's geo-political realities, but the political and social actions taken by Americans seem unaligned by neglecting to speak up about the Saudi's abhorrent treatment of women or dissenters, the bombardment of neighboring countries, and their support of religious fanaticism.
Perhaps it's greed, fear, or maybe lack of knowledge by those who are just learning about the world's geo-political realities, but the political and social actions taken by Americans seem unaligned by neglecting to speak up about the Saudi's abhorrent treatment of women or dissenters, the bombardment of neighboring countries, and their support of religious fanaticism.
4
Saudi Arabian rulers use Islam strategically to shore up the royal family and stamp out any kind of secular liberalizing influence. They do this by giving influence and power to clerics whose fanatical, fundamentalist interpretation of Islam dovetails nicely with strict social controls on dissent or political freedom, and who, incidentally, export their philosophy with lots of money attached to other countries in both the West and the Middle East. So maybe it's time to stop indiscriminately selling high powered and destructive weapons to theocrats whose rule has resulted in more and not fewer terrorists.
11
Wisely the king has chosen to create some distance between himself and the USA. An example that the World should follow for its own good. This place is out of control and seems to have lost its mind since 7-11-2001 or whenever it was.
2
Oh yes! By all means, let all the world follow the autocratic, repressive and regressive regime. Why didn't we think of that before?
"King Salman has a history of working with Islamists. ..."
The terrorist scourge across the globe can be laid at the feet of Wahhabi fanatics who have been building mosques from Indonesia to Germany and inciting Muslims to attack the 'infidels'. Bin Laden was just one obvious manifestation of religious intolerance and fanaticism.
Like it or not, Saudis are a problem, not a solution. Their money simply allows others to do the dirty work.
The terrorist scourge across the globe can be laid at the feet of Wahhabi fanatics who have been building mosques from Indonesia to Germany and inciting Muslims to attack the 'infidels'. Bin Laden was just one obvious manifestation of religious intolerance and fanaticism.
Like it or not, Saudis are a problem, not a solution. Their money simply allows others to do the dirty work.
23
There is no point in detailing specific things we don't like about Saudi Arabia.
Instead, let's look at the big picture:
1. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom. Yes, a kingdom run by an actual, for real, King. Not just some kind of symbolic figure, whose only job is to boost tourism, and his nations fashion designers; but a working, absolute ruler.
George Washington led American's into battle to eliminate this situation in our own nation - why would we ever want to support such a regime?
2. Unlike the United States, which was specifically founded as a nation that would never cram any specific religion down our people's throats, Saudi Arabia is entirely devoted to one specific religion - Islam. It is a sharia law regime, and they support not just any form of Islam, but an extreme, activist version of Islam called Wahhabi - again, why would we support people who do something we would never allow in our country?
If their King doesn't want to visit our country, it is time for us to make sure that our money doesn't want to visit his.
Instead, let's look at the big picture:
1. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom. Yes, a kingdom run by an actual, for real, King. Not just some kind of symbolic figure, whose only job is to boost tourism, and his nations fashion designers; but a working, absolute ruler.
George Washington led American's into battle to eliminate this situation in our own nation - why would we ever want to support such a regime?
2. Unlike the United States, which was specifically founded as a nation that would never cram any specific religion down our people's throats, Saudi Arabia is entirely devoted to one specific religion - Islam. It is a sharia law regime, and they support not just any form of Islam, but an extreme, activist version of Islam called Wahhabi - again, why would we support people who do something we would never allow in our country?
If their King doesn't want to visit our country, it is time for us to make sure that our money doesn't want to visit his.
16
Let's become totally energy independent and wave good-bye to our Arab "friends."
10
Usama Bin Laden was a Saudi.
16 out of 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudis.
President Bush, VP Cheney, SOS Baker et al were responsible for getting an exception made to load the whole family in a plane and let them escape on the 12th/13th of September 2001
Yes when we needed them for cheap oil in the 40's we did agree to provide protection to the kingdom; we also worked with the Russians during World War II - so what.
Now is the perfect time for President Obama to pivot away from the Saudis – Why would you rather be with an obfuscating illiterate fool as a friend who supports the terrorists that we are fighting worldwide, such as Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Al-Nusrah front in Syria and Iraq; ISIS in Syria and Iraq and other countries. Saudi Arabia and Prince Nayef has been openly funding the ISIS and other terrorist, very recently has worked a deal with the Armenian Genocide denier Turkey’s President Erdogan to supply all opposition forces including Al-Qaeda and ISIS in Turkey.
Whatever the last monarch of Saudia did for the empowerment of women in KSA is being back tracked as we speak.
BTW, one question that remains is the fact that how many of the countries invited in this meeting are Democratic and how many are Autocratic/kingdoms. I thought one of the reasons we spent over trillion dollars and a lot of lives to topple Saddam was democracy. According to Fareed Zakaria and Friedman only Iran has a partial democracy.
16 out of 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudis.
President Bush, VP Cheney, SOS Baker et al were responsible for getting an exception made to load the whole family in a plane and let them escape on the 12th/13th of September 2001
Yes when we needed them for cheap oil in the 40's we did agree to provide protection to the kingdom; we also worked with the Russians during World War II - so what.
Now is the perfect time for President Obama to pivot away from the Saudis – Why would you rather be with an obfuscating illiterate fool as a friend who supports the terrorists that we are fighting worldwide, such as Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Al-Nusrah front in Syria and Iraq; ISIS in Syria and Iraq and other countries. Saudi Arabia and Prince Nayef has been openly funding the ISIS and other terrorist, very recently has worked a deal with the Armenian Genocide denier Turkey’s President Erdogan to supply all opposition forces including Al-Qaeda and ISIS in Turkey.
Whatever the last monarch of Saudia did for the empowerment of women in KSA is being back tracked as we speak.
BTW, one question that remains is the fact that how many of the countries invited in this meeting are Democratic and how many are Autocratic/kingdoms. I thought one of the reasons we spent over trillion dollars and a lot of lives to topple Saddam was democracy. According to Fareed Zakaria and Friedman only Iran has a partial democracy.
13
Plus, the women of Iran are allowed to drive a car, go to university and hold professional jobs that require advanced degrees.
Iran is much closer to the West, in terms of values than Saudi Arabia and there is every reason to believe that if the sanctions are lifted, it will continue on the path of progress.
Iran is much closer to the West, in terms of values than Saudi Arabia and there is every reason to believe that if the sanctions are lifted, it will continue on the path of progress.
10
Wizarat I agree with your indictment of the Saudi/Wahabi despots. However, your own sectarianism is showing in regard to Syria where Bashar's Alawite minority regime has proven to be every bit as bloodthirsty as Saddam's minority regime in Iraq was- so Wizarat why the hypocrisy? Also Turkey is far more democratic than either Iran or the Saudis and turned away from Bashar only when he started slaughtering peaceful demonstrators by the thousands. You might check your own sectarianism and reflect that there is compelling evidence that the Syrian Mukhabarat helped facilitate the rise of ISIS and Zarqawi's AQIM as a Machiavellian strategy and each has rarely attacked the other preferring to focus on the moderate and democratic main stream Syrian opposition.
Where did the 9/11 terrorists come from?
Maybe the King should stay home until he cleans out his castle.
Maybe the King should stay home until he cleans out his castle.
17
Saudi, like other players in the Middle East, does not view terrorism as a problem unless the terrorism is funded by its enemy. Their incursion into Yemen may be incredibly foolish. They may have similar weapons to the U.S. but not the intels. At the end, they may not be destabilizing their enemies but themselves.
15
There is no change in policy or upending of the status quo by the Saudis. They are merely reacting to a change in the status quo wrought by Obama.
Since the Saudis were never really our friends, but merely the stewards of a massive store of petroleum, the emotional loss is negligible. The only issue is economic. We have nothing else in common with Saudi Arabia.
The problem is that Obama has never formed a vision of what he's trying to accomplish. He's floundering and destroying things before he knows what he's trying to put in its place. He also has also garnered no support for any grand plan that can be continued once Obama is gone. This time of Obama will be the Great Tearing Down of so much, leaving us with no idea of what is next.
Since the Saudis were never really our friends, but merely the stewards of a massive store of petroleum, the emotional loss is negligible. The only issue is economic. We have nothing else in common with Saudi Arabia.
The problem is that Obama has never formed a vision of what he's trying to accomplish. He's floundering and destroying things before he knows what he's trying to put in its place. He also has also garnered no support for any grand plan that can be continued once Obama is gone. This time of Obama will be the Great Tearing Down of so much, leaving us with no idea of what is next.
4
This is a great case to get more out of our own natural resources (including renewables). Let's get investment into everything energy (fracking included) going and finally lay the beast of middle-eastern oil at rest.
The King will command his feeble kingdom and we will no longer be hostage to his foibles. Saudi Arabia and other tyrant empires survive because the Western world isn't harvesting energy appropriately. I don't care of it is from the sun or from the depths of the earth.
Once the oil shibboleth disappears, what will King Salman hang his hat on?
The King will command his feeble kingdom and we will no longer be hostage to his foibles. Saudi Arabia and other tyrant empires survive because the Western world isn't harvesting energy appropriately. I don't care of it is from the sun or from the depths of the earth.
Once the oil shibboleth disappears, what will King Salman hang his hat on?
3
Guys, Salman is 34.
King Salman is close to 80 years now, not exactly a young guy. A few months ago the question was raised if he had recovered from a stroke - a bit worrisome perhaps for a leader being upset with Obama and Iran. He also give enormous authority to a 29 year old son who has never proven himself ("spoiled brat"). He has fired many colleagues, obviously all of them with solid experience. He promised to stop bombing Yemen about a week ago but then broke his promise without warning - so he is a liar at best. Now he insults Obama by not showing up in DC next week. All-in-all he indeed is an old man without honesty and foresight and in poor health and thus very dangerous for the Middle East. Fasten your seatbelt.
3
Not that the Saudis could be called The Good Guys, but as a practical matter who can blame them for taking a pass on the latest choreographed attempt by the White House to show how everything in the Mideast is under control thanks to our stalwart Arab partners who support us 110%? At some point in the last five years the House of Saud must have rolled its eyes at what a feckless and unreliable ally the US had become. Our foreign policy degenerated into a zig-zagging dotted line connecting seeming random points in space with no coherent strategic purpose. One moment we are Mubarak's friend; the next we are his foe, egging on the revolt that toppled him. Ditto with Gaddafi and even, to a lesser extent, Assad (with whom we had businesslike dealings before the Arab Spring). And there's the Saudi nemesis Iran, who we cannot seem to cozy up to enough during the last couple of years. The Saudis have had enough and are calling Obama's bluff. If he wants them to take responsibility for what goes on in their neighborhood, they are doing just that and see no need to kowtow to us anymore, even if it results in a humanitarian mess like Yemen. That's the price we pay to keep boots off the ground by taking an isolationist tack and using military proxies. Most Americans think that's fine. And so, in that sense, there is no problem here.
3
What percentage of our oil imports are/were from Saudi Arabia? If you're burning fossil fuels to run your car or to heat your homes and have not spoken up/protested about US policy, you're part of the Saudi Arabia/US problem.
3
"Prince Mohammed’s biography contains little military or financial experience. He has mostly worked for his father. And his power makes some nervous.
“What you have is a 29-year-old with untested and unproven leadership qualities and who is reported to be impulsive in his decision making,” . . ."
Gee, this sounds a little like the leader of North Korea, although I am not making a direct comparison.
“What you have is a 29-year-old with untested and unproven leadership qualities and who is reported to be impulsive in his decision making,” . . ."
Gee, this sounds a little like the leader of North Korea, although I am not making a direct comparison.
5
This, to me at least, looks like the beginning of the end of Saudi Arabia as we know it. Saudi Arabia has thus far escaped most of the turmoil that surrounds her because of her non-interventionist regional policies and massive internal and external state-funded support system, derived from its prodigious oil wealth. Now that the U.S. shale oil boom has begun to affect its foreign policy, Saudi Arabia is looking around her neck-of-the-woods and seeing a scary landscape. A landscape created as much by Saudi Arabia as by any Western power. By allying herself with Islamist organizations, Saudi Arabia is losing herself in a radical forest because her focus is on one solitary Iranian tree.
The real threat to Saudi Arabia is not Iran, but bad demographics, a sclerotic government, lack of economic diversification, low oil prices, and the massive (and short-sighted) funding of Salafism and Islamic extremism. The chickens are already roosting, and Saudi Arabia won't be able to control the egg-bombs that will hatch.
The real threat to Saudi Arabia is not Iran, but bad demographics, a sclerotic government, lack of economic diversification, low oil prices, and the massive (and short-sighted) funding of Salafism and Islamic extremism. The chickens are already roosting, and Saudi Arabia won't be able to control the egg-bombs that will hatch.
5
Diversify into what, sand castles?
Salman, like most dictators, is overestimating the strength of Saudis as a nation. The difference between Saudis and Yemenis is the endless flow of petrodollars into Saudis' coffer. Eventually, the money will either dry up or not be sufficient to meet domestic needs. The whole Middle East is a powder keg. And he should not be playing with fire.
8
Not all the oil in the world can wash off the blood on Saudi Arabias hands.
Beheadings by the sword, upholding sharia law, latest bombing the poorest ME country with US supplied weapons, killing scores of women and children.
Now also bombing the Houthi rebel group, the main enemies of Al Qaida, with cooperation of the US who seem to have forgotten 9/11 (!) and about to add yet another foreign policy blunder to the row including the Vietnam war, support of dictatorships around the world (Latin America, Iran) the invasion of Iraq etc.
Beheadings by the sword, upholding sharia law, latest bombing the poorest ME country with US supplied weapons, killing scores of women and children.
Now also bombing the Houthi rebel group, the main enemies of Al Qaida, with cooperation of the US who seem to have forgotten 9/11 (!) and about to add yet another foreign policy blunder to the row including the Vietnam war, support of dictatorships around the world (Latin America, Iran) the invasion of Iraq etc.
5
Those confident of their position don't hesitate to sit down with those they may disagree with. If the new King doesn't show up it will demonstrate a lack of confidence, that he's afraid, not pique.
5
Whether we like it or not, we need to maintain more than friendly relationship with Saudi Arabia for our own sake. Imagine what would happen if Saudi Arabia, as the largest producer of crude oil and the most influential OPEC member (with several anti-U.S. members), moved the bloc to henceforth price OPEC crude in Euro or Yuan? That would seriously jeopardize US$'s position as the dominant reserve currency and consequently damage our economy.
In a game of hardball, I mean really, really hardball, who do you think wins? US or the Saudi?
So, the Saudi King finds it appropriate to snub the President of the United States by canceling a meeting 3 days before it was to take place?
Frankly, with low oil prices and increasing domestic oil production, why does United States need these dinosaurs from Middle-East that has 21st Century infrastructure (all imported) with a repressive 9th century dictatorship that makes it hard for non-Sunni minorities to even breathe freely?
It's time for America to start shunning these cancerous tumors that have pretended to be our allies for last 70 odd years or so. Leave them to their own devices and let them "evolve" or perish.
Frankly, with low oil prices and increasing domestic oil production, why does United States need these dinosaurs from Middle-East that has 21st Century infrastructure (all imported) with a repressive 9th century dictatorship that makes it hard for non-Sunni minorities to even breathe freely?
It's time for America to start shunning these cancerous tumors that have pretended to be our allies for last 70 odd years or so. Leave them to their own devices and let them "evolve" or perish.
12
I think the idea you propose is good, but I would go one step further and simply quarantine the whole region. Cut off all trade and commerce, all intellectual discourse, all travel and tourism, to or from that region. Make clear that any terrorist attack on a country outside of the region will be met with an overwhelming, destructive response and follow through on that.
Once isolated, the violent, narrow-minded, regressive fools that run the countries of the Middle East can solve their own problems and we can go on with our lives. We have to end oil dependency anyway, so this would help us get more motivated to do it.
Once isolated, the violent, narrow-minded, regressive fools that run the countries of the Middle East can solve their own problems and we can go on with our lives. We have to end oil dependency anyway, so this would help us get more motivated to do it.
The only reason the Saudis are pumping so much oil now is because of their paranoia vis-a-vis Iran.
Well that didn't take long. The King doesn't come to Washington as commanded, and the NYT publishes a news article criticizing the Saudis. He's a son-of-a-b, but he's no longer your son-of-a-b?
9
Did you read the article? i don't see the criticism that you see in it.
one point though, is that given the amount of military aid the US pays for, if SA wants to act independently, fine, then be independent in every way,m including defense.
one point though, is that given the amount of military aid the US pays for, if SA wants to act independently, fine, then be independent in every way,m including defense.
1
More proof this presidents foreign policies are a disaster and dangerous for America and world peace. This powder keg will explode someday and it will be traced back to this inept president unless the common core advocates have their way and change the history books as we know they will try.
9
Nonsense! This is where we should be, without the dangerous environment, has we not gone after Iraq's oil! It's past time for someone in that region to take charge. We need to be assisting in that region and not constantly leading. And what we are getting back is not worth the money or lives that we constantly invest in the region. Let Saudi Arabia start to bear the brunt of the various costs of seeking to stabilize that region. And we should wish them well because we created the mess that confronts them.
1
Make no mistake the Leader of Saudi Arabia is no fan of the Leader of Iran. Why are we there?
Solar panels and racking in the wind is our best defense.
Solar panels and racking in the wind is our best defense.
Great point - if only Obama would invade a middle eastern country, his foreign policy would be so much better.
1
What we see on the ground is the emboldening of the totalitarian Arab regimes which are supported by what are called the “democratic countries of the West.” These Arab regimes use terrorism as instrument to impose their order and to frighten Washington. So far, this strategy of utilizing terrorists has destabilized the region and has deepened bloodshed. The mass killing in Yemen, for example, has been supported and promoted by Washington and Paris as an outstanding achievement by Saudi Arabia in preventing possible threat to the west.
9
Hon. King Salman,
whatever you do it is not enough in the eye of the modern world. Look around - Libya is gone, Iraq is in turmoil, Egypt is gloomy, Iran is debating with nuclear arsenals, Jordan is giving lip services and Pakistan is having internal problems blaming India for everything. You are destroying Yemen - your friend for so long. You could not keep it up. Renewable energy is picking up elsewhere not in your oil field. It is time for quick changes for women and sharia law. Arms struggle cannot last very long. Islam needs to be united - difference between shia and sunni and other sects have to be minimized. Democracy, and democracy, freedom and openness not the religious governance is the modern way. I wish you good luck.
whatever you do it is not enough in the eye of the modern world. Look around - Libya is gone, Iraq is in turmoil, Egypt is gloomy, Iran is debating with nuclear arsenals, Jordan is giving lip services and Pakistan is having internal problems blaming India for everything. You are destroying Yemen - your friend for so long. You could not keep it up. Renewable energy is picking up elsewhere not in your oil field. It is time for quick changes for women and sharia law. Arms struggle cannot last very long. Islam needs to be united - difference between shia and sunni and other sects have to be minimized. Democracy, and democracy, freedom and openness not the religious governance is the modern way. I wish you good luck.
12
He's probably sensing the rise of ISIS and just wants to get on board before they target him. Our ' friends ' in the ME , except for Israel , have just been riding on the same bus with us for convenience, not for any shared philosophy or concept of freedom.
7
Our "friend" Israel is very much in bed with the Saudi despots as seen in their collaboration in the Egyptian coup and mass slaughter in Gaza not to mention derailing diplomacy with Iran.
1
I have an idea, let's pump even more money into the Arab Middle East to show how we want them to be our friends! Maybe we could even send military arms and personnel to help quell their skirmishes and win over the local populace. That will certainly work this time unlike the last 15-20 times we have tried this approach!
19
Saudi Arabia is our friend because it buys billions of dollars worth of armaments from us.
12
I like this guy. Instead of a smooch on the lips and a dagger in the back - he stabs you in the front. He also appears to be willing to lift something heavier than money when it comes to dropping bombs on his enemies. Maybe now the U.S. will get over it's abusive relationship with this treacherous den of greedheads.
14
problem is that he is dropping US bombs
The article makes the fallacy of equivalency between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is false. Iran is a besieged gov't that should be replaced by a democracy. Which in Iran is at least in the realm of the possible. The list of proxies have a significant difference Hezbollah is trotted out as a sort of foreign creation of Iran when in fact Hezbollah owes its existence to the Israeli invasion into Lebanon in 1982. Saudi Arabia has funded al Qaeda and ISIS. Saudi Arabia is engaged in a indiscriminate bombing campaign in Yemen in an effort to stop imaginary Iranian penetration.
15
To all who are demanding the USA "dump" the Saudis, please remember they have 1 trillion $$ in investment, defense contracts, and imports from us.
Do the math: that's more than ONE million jobs here.
Lest we forget, they hold over half a trillion $ of our national debt.
Do the math: that's more than ONE million jobs here.
Lest we forget, they hold over half a trillion $ of our national debt.
6
Ah, nothing like a little blackmail in the morning.
"You have to be our ally, or we'll take away your jobs."
Sounds like a typical rich money-hoarding tactic.
"You have to be our ally, or we'll take away your jobs."
Sounds like a typical rich money-hoarding tactic.
So? We shouldn't pick allies on the basis of arms sales or whom they make rich in our country. And we shouldn't have allies who have supported radical, violent terrorists, including the 9-11 attackers. There is not one country in the Middle East that is worthy of being a U.S. ally - not one - and we should get totally out of that region and stop pretending that we have friends there. The best thing to do is tell them to solve their own problems and, if they keep the terrorism going, don't spread it outside that region or we will turn them into a parking lot.
1
Bad on us for letting the Saudi terrorists control so much of US economy.
So many attacks on Saudi Arabia, so little analysis on the possible reasons for their actions. Just to tweak Obama? Doubtful.
9
When will Americans stop repeating the drip-feed mantra that Saudia Arabia is an ally. Its anti-woman, anti-democratic, exporters of terrorism, pushers of petroleum.
Saudi Arabia is the ENEMY.
Saudi Arabia is the ENEMY.
27
"While diplomats dispute the strength of ties between Iran and the Houthis, Saudi leaders worried that the Houthis could become an Iranian-backed threat on their border, as the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah is to Israel. But Western analysts and diplomats say that there are great risks to the intervention."
I'm please that there is at least one reporter refraining from the term "Iran-backed Houthis..." which clearly dominates US media reporting and betrays a propaganda mission to the whole crisis. While diplomats dispute the strength of the connections it appears most middle east experts see attempt to make these connections as extremely overblown and ahistorical.
I'm please that there is at least one reporter refraining from the term "Iran-backed Houthis..." which clearly dominates US media reporting and betrays a propaganda mission to the whole crisis. While diplomats dispute the strength of the connections it appears most middle east experts see attempt to make these connections as extremely overblown and ahistorical.
4
"Saudi Arabia Says King Won’t Attend Meetings in U.S..."......"King Salman Upends Status Quo in Region and the Royal Family..." - well, I must say I'm so discombobulated by "King" Salman's snub not meeting with our President that I've skipped breakfast.
So little respect from the misogynist theocracy/dictatorship that gave us 18 of the 9/11 hijackers, that foments fundamentalism throughout the globe for many decades, that beheads and amputates on a scale not seen since the Middle Ages. So little respect even as we allowed the Saudis to exit on 9/11 even as flights with former President and former VP Clinton and Gore were grounded.
Now, there are more Saudi atrocities in Yemen and a bombing scheme that makes the Israeli aerial bombardment on the Gaza refugee camp seem like a Red Cross mission.
But we are scared to protest, to recall our Ambassador for consultations. It's hard sometimes to decide whether it's our toxic attachment to the Israelis or to the Saudis is the most malignant.
So little respect from the misogynist theocracy/dictatorship that gave us 18 of the 9/11 hijackers, that foments fundamentalism throughout the globe for many decades, that beheads and amputates on a scale not seen since the Middle Ages. So little respect even as we allowed the Saudis to exit on 9/11 even as flights with former President and former VP Clinton and Gore were grounded.
Now, there are more Saudi atrocities in Yemen and a bombing scheme that makes the Israeli aerial bombardment on the Gaza refugee camp seem like a Red Cross mission.
But we are scared to protest, to recall our Ambassador for consultations. It's hard sometimes to decide whether it's our toxic attachment to the Israelis or to the Saudis is the most malignant.
22
I choose the Persians over the Arabs. We are energy independent. Let the Arabs eat their. Iran will be nuclear at some point. Its inevitable. So learn again to love the bomb.
3
"Iran will be nuclear at some point. Its inevitable. "
NO it is not. The US could launch a nuclear strike that would put the mad mullahs of Iran back into the stone age where they belong, all that would be required is a president with the guts to do so.
NO it is not. The US could launch a nuclear strike that would put the mad mullahs of Iran back into the stone age where they belong, all that would be required is a president with the guts to do so.
Take away the oil and Saudi Arabia is on the terrorist list.
21
take away the oil and there is no Saudi Arabia, just a big desert where various tribes barely survive
1
I am surprised and dismayed the NYT produced such a sloppy, misleading report - one that led the paper.
On April 29 the paper reported the ascension of King Salman to the throne. Salman is 79 and in poor health.
In the same article it was reported the King, in a break with tradition, had named Mohammed bin Nayef, a much younger Prince, as his successor.
It is Prince Nayef who will be attending the conference as the King's representative. Since Prince Nayef currently has the Defense Portfolio, and since the topic of the conference is Iranian nuclear weapons, his presence at Camp David makes pretty good sense, I'd say.
All it would have taken was one Nexis search. By the person who covers the State Department for the Paper of Record, for God's Sake.
No Harm, No Foul.
On April 29 the paper reported the ascension of King Salman to the throne. Salman is 79 and in poor health.
In the same article it was reported the King, in a break with tradition, had named Mohammed bin Nayef, a much younger Prince, as his successor.
It is Prince Nayef who will be attending the conference as the King's representative. Since Prince Nayef currently has the Defense Portfolio, and since the topic of the conference is Iranian nuclear weapons, his presence at Camp David makes pretty good sense, I'd say.
All it would have taken was one Nexis search. By the person who covers the State Department for the Paper of Record, for God's Sake.
No Harm, No Foul.
10
The more things change the more they remain the same. Nothing positive in the air for that region.
3
What do you know? Obama lied about bin Laden raid. Seymour Hersh (won the Pulitzer Prize in 1970): The White House's story might have been written by Lewis Carroll. (Read London Review of Books http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-la....
What should it say about the administration's information about the deal with Iran? Can it be trustworthy? Apparently the Saudies believe is cannot. So it is not only Israel and its prime minister who is hated by this president and his allies on the left, now Saudi Arabia shows Obama its deep suspicion and displeasure.
It is true that Saudi Arabia has been involved in spreading Wahabi Islam around the world, and that it had and may be is still sponsoring terrorism. But the US for years had preferred oil on human rights, lies and deception over truth. This what makes the Saudi move even more interesting. It shows the (justified) contempt in the Sunni Arab world toward Obama.
Israel might have a unique opportunity when Egypt and Saudi Arabia realize that the Jews are not their enemy. Let us hope that Abu Mazen and the Palestinian leadership understand that it is their time to grow up, replace hatred with cooperation, recognize the right of the Jewish people for self-determination, and end this conflict once and for all. No Israeli government will be able to look the other way. One thing is sure, there is no need for Obama or the Europeans. The Middle East will be much better without them.
What should it say about the administration's information about the deal with Iran? Can it be trustworthy? Apparently the Saudies believe is cannot. So it is not only Israel and its prime minister who is hated by this president and his allies on the left, now Saudi Arabia shows Obama its deep suspicion and displeasure.
It is true that Saudi Arabia has been involved in spreading Wahabi Islam around the world, and that it had and may be is still sponsoring terrorism. But the US for years had preferred oil on human rights, lies and deception over truth. This what makes the Saudi move even more interesting. It shows the (justified) contempt in the Sunni Arab world toward Obama.
Israel might have a unique opportunity when Egypt and Saudi Arabia realize that the Jews are not their enemy. Let us hope that Abu Mazen and the Palestinian leadership understand that it is their time to grow up, replace hatred with cooperation, recognize the right of the Jewish people for self-determination, and end this conflict once and for all. No Israeli government will be able to look the other way. One thing is sure, there is no need for Obama or the Europeans. The Middle East will be much better without them.
6
The Hersh claim has already been disputed by Salon. The US needs the ME because of oil. The shale will provide that, so Obama is getting out of a very unstable region. Let the Chinese and Europeans take care of the ME--they need the oil.
But the Palestinian right to self-determination doesn't matter, right?
The bin Laden raid story was an obvious fabrication from the start. Of course, so is the 9/11 narrative - but that will come out later.
Israel’s hasbara army excused Israeli actions against Gaza civilian populations on the grounds that missiles were being fired from Gaza into Israel from populated centers. The Israeli campaign killed around 2000 Palestinians, most of them non-combatants. Another 1400 or so were killed in 2008-2009, and there have been many other Israeli bombings and other military actions against Palestinians in Gaza. Gaza rockets, unguided and without warheads, mostly land uselessly in the desert, so that totaling them up into the thousands is a mere propaganda point. Over the past decade, they have killed 44 Israelis. The launching of the rockets by Hamas is a war crime, and the majority of those killed have been innocent non-combatants. But the disproportionate use of force is also a violation of international law, and a thousand to one kill ratio suggests disproportion.
Moreover – the rockets did not start the last Israeli assault. The rockets were a response to an assault on Gaza that followed the kidnapping of 3 teens in the West Bank. A kidnapping Hamas denied responsibility for, and likely did not commit.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
Meanwhile, Israel is happily supporting Salafist terrorists in Syria.
The bin Laden raid story was an obvious fabrication from the start. Of course, so is the 9/11 narrative - but that will come out later.
Israel’s hasbara army excused Israeli actions against Gaza civilian populations on the grounds that missiles were being fired from Gaza into Israel from populated centers. The Israeli campaign killed around 2000 Palestinians, most of them non-combatants. Another 1400 or so were killed in 2008-2009, and there have been many other Israeli bombings and other military actions against Palestinians in Gaza. Gaza rockets, unguided and without warheads, mostly land uselessly in the desert, so that totaling them up into the thousands is a mere propaganda point. Over the past decade, they have killed 44 Israelis. The launching of the rockets by Hamas is a war crime, and the majority of those killed have been innocent non-combatants. But the disproportionate use of force is also a violation of international law, and a thousand to one kill ratio suggests disproportion.
Moreover – the rockets did not start the last Israeli assault. The rockets were a response to an assault on Gaza that followed the kidnapping of 3 teens in the West Bank. A kidnapping Hamas denied responsibility for, and likely did not commit.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
Meanwhile, Israel is happily supporting Salafist terrorists in Syria.
1
Does anyone at The White House read these comments, particularly the Readers’ Picks?
I hope so, because typically - in my view - the innate wisdom of informed and concerned Americans is articulated here, again and again. It gives me hope.
I hope so, because typically - in my view - the innate wisdom of informed and concerned Americans is articulated here, again and again. It gives me hope.
26
I doubt it. When you're convinced of your sheer brilliance and correctness on everything, why would the comments of us little people matter to the "experts" in the chattering class.
So the Saudis are just the latest in a fast growing field of people that do not believe or trust Obama. Who wants to be next to be thrown under the bus or stabbed in the back by this administration.
5
US has for too long been the primary protector and defender of ultra right wing and racist wahabi (and Zionist ) regimes, arming them with latest and greatest weapons and God knows how much of tax payers earnings as USAID while calling on powerless low level Mohammed and Fatima to "reform" Islam or take back Islam from "terrorists" and "jihadists". This is hypocrisy of the worst kind. No organization, jihadist or Zionist, can survive on ideology alone. They all need $$ and weapons that US happily sells. Yes, there is a cancer in Islamic world (as opposed to Islamic faith). It is called Wahhabism. Protected by Zionist controlled US.
12
This is a perfect example of a conspiracy minded mindset that continues to hold back progress in the Arab world. Everything that is bad, even aspects of Islam that are embarrassing for their retrograde or bloodthirsty qualities, can be traced back to the Jews. If you cannot be bothered with an objective examination of your society's ills, you will not be able to correct them. It's that simple. Over a decade ago, a UN sponsored group of Muslim intellectuals issued a report that analyzed Arab society's failings. It has been ignored, in part perhaps because Jews were not the culprits and also because the concept that "the fault lies within ourselves" is but an infidel's ruse.
It is completely understandable why American foreign policy has tilted to the Saudis for as long as it has. When you're sitting on an ocean of petroleum, you have a lot of international clout and for that reason we've more or less issued passes to the House of Saud, a backward, religiously conservative oligarchy which rules over numerous bedouin tribes of similarly provincial Muslims and whose leaders are well cared for by the Saudis.
Given a choice, I believe our future in the
Middle East actually lies with the Iranians who, despite their nominal theocracy, are far more educated, far more cosmopolitan, and generally have more in common with the West than the Saudis. I don't think the US can play both ends to the middle, as it seems to be doing. If we're going to be engaged in the Middle East (and it's arguable as to the efficacy of our even being involved at all) we will ultimately have to make a choice between the latent progressive possibilities in Iran or continued support of a regime in Saudi Arabia which is still living in the middle ages.
Given a choice, I believe our future in the
Middle East actually lies with the Iranians who, despite their nominal theocracy, are far more educated, far more cosmopolitan, and generally have more in common with the West than the Saudis. I don't think the US can play both ends to the middle, as it seems to be doing. If we're going to be engaged in the Middle East (and it's arguable as to the efficacy of our even being involved at all) we will ultimately have to make a choice between the latent progressive possibilities in Iran or continued support of a regime in Saudi Arabia which is still living in the middle ages.
24
A country ruled by mullahs and ayatollahs and imams is hardly "nomin[ly] theocratic"!!
Moving away from close ties with Washington? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Good riddance.
18
Other than a retiree in Crawford, Texas, not many tears.
10
King Salman is not the only one. 4 out the 6 nations that were invited have declined to attend Obama's meaningless summit.
Obama's actions have given Iran nuclear weapons and resulted in a nuclear arms race in the middle east. Russian and China have formed an alliance as a result of Obama's actions.
The entire world will pay the price of the Obama presidency.
Obama's actions have given Iran nuclear weapons and resulted in a nuclear arms race in the middle east. Russian and China have formed an alliance as a result of Obama's actions.
The entire world will pay the price of the Obama presidency.
8
First of all Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. Secondly, Iran has been trying to develop their nuclear technology whether you believe it is for civilian purposes or not, for decades, and even before Obama came to power there were efforts to try to prevent them from developing a nuclear bomb, just like Obama is trying to do presently. I would assume you probably voted for the President who got us into the disastrous Iraq war with all of its continuing consequences. Russia and China have become closer ever since the end of the cold war and this is not the result of Obama's actions in the Middle East, and just illustrates you do not understand the complexity of relationships between countries such as China and Russia with their own geopolitical and regional objectives.
The entire world has paid the price for the Bush/Cheney era.
Saudis Arabians flew planes into the twin tours, not Iranians.
Iran treats their women with respect. They drive cars and attend universities. Women in Iran are doctors, lawyers and engineers. Iran is light years closer to western civilization then Saudia Arabaia will ever be....
The U.S. Does not control the world and guess what , the world does not want to be controlled by the U.S. Stop thinking it is still 1958 and starting living in 2015.
Saudis Arabians flew planes into the twin tours, not Iranians.
Iran treats their women with respect. They drive cars and attend universities. Women in Iran are doctors, lawyers and engineers. Iran is light years closer to western civilization then Saudia Arabaia will ever be....
The U.S. Does not control the world and guess what , the world does not want to be controlled by the U.S. Stop thinking it is still 1958 and starting living in 2015.
I am not surprised by this reactions at all. It's not surprising because what else can the Saudis do when we have such contradictory policies in the Middle East?
Obama doesn't know the first thing about leadership or SHAPING foreign affairs. All he's good at doing is reacting.
There are 4 civil wars going on in the region (Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen) and ISIS and Al Qaeda are taking advantage of the messes.
Why are we only bombing ISIS? Why aren't we on the ground in these places? Should we just leave them alone or be more proactive? Can we really trust the Iranians? Do we want to alienate the Saudis? Where does Israel fit in to all of this? I hear no discussions about any of this (much like the issue with Ukraine) from this administration. We need clear and decisive leadership at the top, and we're not getting it.
Obama doesn't know the first thing about leadership or SHAPING foreign affairs. All he's good at doing is reacting.
There are 4 civil wars going on in the region (Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen) and ISIS and Al Qaeda are taking advantage of the messes.
Why are we only bombing ISIS? Why aren't we on the ground in these places? Should we just leave them alone or be more proactive? Can we really trust the Iranians? Do we want to alienate the Saudis? Where does Israel fit in to all of this? I hear no discussions about any of this (much like the issue with Ukraine) from this administration. We need clear and decisive leadership at the top, and we're not getting it.
7
There is no winning, or even tying, for the USA in this Middle East domestic quarrel. Money, oil, and extremist religious groups are all fighting each other for regional supremacy which is no place for infidel solutions. It is likely that the Saudis and Iranians will square of to see who will lead/rule the middle east in the foreseeable future.
Middle East oil no longer controls our economy so let the natives solve their regional problems on their own.
Middle East oil no longer controls our economy so let the natives solve their regional problems on their own.
4
ISIS is waiting for your boots on the ground - yours and many more Americans. I believe that's their fervent wish and ticket to heaven. Have you signed up to go?
Actually O.A. Ruscaba, it is you who do not know anything about leadership. First, we cannot trust Iran: that is precisely why Obama has repeatedly said "Distrust but Verify" and why we got inspectors in during the interim agreement in Nov 2013 to reduce their enrichment of uranium and we would have more inspections if a final agreement is reached. Sanctions without inspections - the approach until Nov 2013 and possibly June 30, 2015 is the ONLY way to stop their program absent a war. Additional or continued sanctions won't.
As for the war in Yemen, it is a civil war that other countries have now gotten involved in. We are smart to stay out as much as we can and encourage negotiations as the longer the war goes on, the better jihadists can take advantage of the situation.
Finally, other countries, including Jordan, have bombed ISIS. Us sending additional troops would be counterproductive. The people in the region need to deal with them. The foreign policy does not provide quick results or "shock and awe" but in the long run, it will inure to our benefit more than the 2003 Iraq invasion which was wildly popular (90%) after it started and is now perceived as a monumental failure. Not to mention it is the big cause for ISIS's existence as the group is the proclaimed successor to Al Qaeda in Anbar province.
As for the war in Yemen, it is a civil war that other countries have now gotten involved in. We are smart to stay out as much as we can and encourage negotiations as the longer the war goes on, the better jihadists can take advantage of the situation.
Finally, other countries, including Jordan, have bombed ISIS. Us sending additional troops would be counterproductive. The people in the region need to deal with them. The foreign policy does not provide quick results or "shock and awe" but in the long run, it will inure to our benefit more than the 2003 Iraq invasion which was wildly popular (90%) after it started and is now perceived as a monumental failure. Not to mention it is the big cause for ISIS's existence as the group is the proclaimed successor to Al Qaeda in Anbar province.
The House of Saud is effectively the last of “our sonofabitches” (to use Roosevelt’s description of Somoza in Latin America) from that bygone era when the protection of American interests was ensured by the support of despots and their cronies.
As disturbing as it may be to speculate on the character of the regime most likely to replace the House of Saud when it eventually collapses, it is all but certain that as long as the US is seen as protecting only the regime and ignoring the citizens, there will be pent-up hostility against the US just as there was after the fall of the Shah in Iran.
In the meantime, the US is more likely to manage potential instability by remaining engaged with the Saudis while making it clear that American interests in the region amount to more than the security of oil supplies and the robust support of Israel. As uncomfortable as the Saudis may be with concerns about their export of Wahhabism and women’s rights in the Kingdom, these issues must be discussed.
Equal firmness is needed in standing up to the alarmist objections-- of both the Saudis and the Israelis — of the pursuit of a new pragmatic relationship with Iran.
The Obama administration must be given credit for recognizing that longer-term stability and American interests in the region are far better protected by pragmatic and mutually respectful relationships than by the despotic client state alliances of the past.
As disturbing as it may be to speculate on the character of the regime most likely to replace the House of Saud when it eventually collapses, it is all but certain that as long as the US is seen as protecting only the regime and ignoring the citizens, there will be pent-up hostility against the US just as there was after the fall of the Shah in Iran.
In the meantime, the US is more likely to manage potential instability by remaining engaged with the Saudis while making it clear that American interests in the region amount to more than the security of oil supplies and the robust support of Israel. As uncomfortable as the Saudis may be with concerns about their export of Wahhabism and women’s rights in the Kingdom, these issues must be discussed.
Equal firmness is needed in standing up to the alarmist objections-- of both the Saudis and the Israelis — of the pursuit of a new pragmatic relationship with Iran.
The Obama administration must be given credit for recognizing that longer-term stability and American interests in the region are far better protected by pragmatic and mutually respectful relationships than by the despotic client state alliances of the past.
9
If this is how the Saudis say "thank you" to President Obama for immediately rushing to their side in their military incursion in Yemen, it is time for the U.S. to reset our relationship with them. For too long U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia has been held hostage to our oil dependence to them and OPEC. Now with the U.S. as the world's largest exporter of oil, we need to stop genuflecting to this medieval monarchy with its virulent form of Sunni Islam which has spawned Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, and its most recent transformation into ISIS. It's time for the U.S. to extricate from the Sunni-Shiite civil war raging across the region between the Saudis and the Iranians and their proxies by adhering to our First Amendment principle of religious tolerance and neutrality. In doing so, we will regain our rightful position as an "honest broker" rather than being mired in endless conflicts under the misguided "War on Terror" that began in Saudi Arabia.
16
Its long past time for us to sever our relationship with this brutal, cruel, theocratic dictatorship that decapitates people in the public square. I think the number for last year was well over 250. The Saudis are not now and never been our friends. They view is as silly, naive infidels that they can use to do their dirty work.
A brutal regime fighting to maintain the status quo and fighting a fruitless war against the tide of modernity and freedom of his people. A jihadist dictatorship family who allied themselves with the United States in the 1930s to survive its system of governance; invading another country in the name of survival with the support of its main sponsor. Like the State of Israel; another baby now abandoning the interest of the master. Let the world remember the sins of the Saudis. We shall see how this will end. Can you imagine Saudi regime comparing themselves with Iran? Incomparable; i say.
5
"Those concerns are expected to dominate the conversation when Persian Gulf leaders meet President Obama in Washington this week. King Salman had been expected to attend, but it was announced on Sunday that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef would take his place.
The state-run Saudi Press Agency said the decision had been made because the meeting overlapped with a five-day cease-fire in Yemen, but some Arab officials said the move signaled displeasure over United States policy toward Iran."
"Fueling the change is frustration with the United States, long considered the kingdom’s closest Western ally and guarantor of its security. Saudis accuse the Obama administration of neglecting its Arab allies while prioritizing rapprochement with Iran."
Sounds like Obama's middle of the road approach is upsetting everyone--Arabs, Israelis, and even to some extent the Iranians. In this country, it is upsetting liberals and conservatives alike. These are sure signs that his approach is different from the usual, and probably reasonable. It is certainly preferable to endless war.
The state-run Saudi Press Agency said the decision had been made because the meeting overlapped with a five-day cease-fire in Yemen, but some Arab officials said the move signaled displeasure over United States policy toward Iran."
"Fueling the change is frustration with the United States, long considered the kingdom’s closest Western ally and guarantor of its security. Saudis accuse the Obama administration of neglecting its Arab allies while prioritizing rapprochement with Iran."
Sounds like Obama's middle of the road approach is upsetting everyone--Arabs, Israelis, and even to some extent the Iranians. In this country, it is upsetting liberals and conservatives alike. These are sure signs that his approach is different from the usual, and probably reasonable. It is certainly preferable to endless war.
14
Never forget that our "friends and allies" in Saudi Arabia provided 16 of the 19 terrorists who visited death and destruction on us on September 11. With friends like this who needs enemies. You may argue that it wasn't sanctioned by the "government" but they surely did little to try to control terrorism's rich supporters within their country. The bitter irony is that we funded that atrocity ourselves through petrodollars.
20
The Iranian regime is only marginally different than the Saudi regime. A significant difference between the two is that the Iranian regime is open and honest with regard to its dislike of the United States, while the Saudi regime smiles broadly at our ambassador while quietly fomenting hatred for America and its encouragement of democratic reforms. Nevertheless, the US government prefers the latter: a deceitful, self-indulgent, back-stabbing, phony group of monarchs. It would be a blessing if both regimes were cast adrift to fend for themselves in the wake of renewable energy.
12
I believe the more important differences between the two countries is not their respective regimes but the people they govern. From that vantage point, its clear to me who the US should be forging closer ties with for regional stability.
Good ! Very Good ! Now that Saudi Arabia's true colors are out in the open, we can reply in kind. We can stop pretending that they are real allies, real friends. We can stop looking the other way when Saudi Arabia breaks all International laws, violating Human Rights, the turmoil they have created in the Middle East, spawning terrorists and future terrorists with their oil wealth. The Al Qaeda, ISIS and other vicious terrorist groups have all emerged from there. Now they are sulking and acting like a petulant child. Let them protect Sunnis. On our part let us unshackle Iran who want to protect Shiites. That would be Justice. Most important let us get out from the Middle East. Our presence there has only aggravated the problem. Besides, why are we bending over backward for a cruel despotic regime ruling their people in complete antithesis to our principles? The fact that King Salman will not be meeting President Obama is a great opening for us to leave Saudi Arabia to their own devices. They have never been or are, our true ally and friend. Let's not ignore their bifid tongue.
25
This deal is springing leaks.
1
Many people seem to think that as soon as our allies don't agree with us, we should cut them loose. That's just immature. Perhaps they have a point.
2
Saudi Arabia to me is a country intent on spreading conflict and war, and the extent to which we cater to the Saudis is intolerable.
18
You forgot to mention that it's not just Saudi Arabia. Oman, and Bahrain and the UAE are skipping Obama's "summit"
The Obama foreign policy is a hot mess.
The Obama foreign policy is a hot mess.
2
The current shuffling of deck chairs among a couple of princes will not do the job. This is not change! It is time to let qualified and professional leaders manage and run the ministries and the government in general. Saudi royal family could perhaps take the example of the monarchy in Jordan. I know they are far from perfect but perhaps a good first step. Let the government be run by qualified and more legitimate individuals and take the monarchy out of the day to day business of government. Taking the princes out of the individual ministries, army and government agenicies and some degree of voter reform will go a long way in giving the Saudi government some legitimacy. Otherwise the current system of a detached royal family with absolute power, a young and fast growing population without jobs and religious extremism is likely to end in disaster!
2
When "W" was in the White House, any time an ally was upset the press bashed him. He was reckless and dangerous. Destroying our friendships around the world. Russia needs a reset.
How has all that liberal garbage worked out? Russian, Saudi Arabia...even Great Britain...but this time the press is silent or blames our friends.
How has all that liberal garbage worked out? Russian, Saudi Arabia...even Great Britain...but this time the press is silent or blames our friends.
1
America's foreign policy has shifted for the better. The Saudis are arrogant because they have oil. They have done nothing to keep the Wahhabi in-check so why should we bend over backwards to support their fears? When this new King took over, he handed out money all over the kingdom to foster good favor. Then he attacked Yemen. Pakistan's legislature voted not to join in. Saudi money and influence has its limitations but they fail to see it. Time change but arrogance doesn't.
5
Since President Nixon's alliance to ensure that Saudi (and its allies) oil is denominated in dollars (think of the economic advantages that gave the U.S. for decades), our exchange for that huge perk has been that we have to sell military equipment and provide defense in one way or another to Saudi Arabia and against its perceived enemies. We decried Venezuela and Iran because they stepped outside the U.S. petrodollar vise. Well, I don't think we are going to like the consequences when we lose our advantage. Who will want dollars anymore? Who will dump dollars because they no longer need them to buy oil?
2
Our Nation needs to get over the soft spot in its head for the Saudis. They are no different from drug lords sitting back in their lavish compounds mocking our street addiction to oil. Obama, show some spine and walk away from these goons who now look only eastward.
1
It is reassuring to know that the House of Saud is moving inexorably towards the 18th Century.
6
And will move further back in time if required.
Wow, you are optimistic!
Right now, in Yemen, we are fighting on the same side as Al Qaeda in this alliance with Saudi Arabia against the Houthi's. I thought we still had unresolved issues with Al Qaeda, but since Obama killed Bin Laden (instead of capturing him for trial), that's all water under the bridge by now for our always forward looking president. Since 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, we shouldn't be surprised. This debacle in the ME is coming down to Sunni versus Shia and with us arming everyone including "rebels", this isn't going to end well or even end at all.
3
Iran is not a paragon of virtue by any means. But the way supporters of Saudi Arabia seem to talk, we are abandoning support for a Jeffersonian democracy in the middle east. These supporters would mainly be Israeli apologists, Islamiic terrorists, and perhaps our own GOP.
Hey Boehner and McConnell, when are you inviting the Saudi King to address the congress?
Hey Boehner and McConnell, when are you inviting the Saudi King to address the congress?
10
This tribe is not our friends. Remember 9/11. They need us more than we need them.
15
And what did we expect from families that own countries sitting atop huge pools of petroleum [the Saudis and the Emirates] but perpetuating a 14th century orthodox Islamist society?
16
"King Salman has a history of working with Islamists. Decades ago, he was a royal point man and fund-raiser for jihadists going to Afghanistan, Bosnia and elsewhere."
And:
"giving enormous authority to his untested son Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 29"
So, why should we care if he doesn't show up?
And:
"giving enormous authority to his untested son Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 29"
So, why should we care if he doesn't show up?
10
no doubt, the Saudi's know their best friend in the region is... Israel. They do business with one another, it can't be advertised, yet it is quite obvious.
10
This simply emphasizes the growing importance of developing renewable energy resources. If we reduce our dependence on oil we can lessen the risk of anthropogenic global warming while sending less money to people who will do their best to drag us into a nearly thousand year old battle about who should have succeeded the Prophet Mohammed PBUH. The extent to which we have warped the regional power balance by sending these countries hundreds of billions of oil money is appalling.
6
Domestically, he has made sweeping changes, promoting younger officials, firing those deemed unfit and giving enormous authority to his untested son Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 29. He has shown close ties to religious conservatives, raising questions about the fate of his predecessor’s limited reforms.
-----------------------------
There are some speculations that King Salman may have dementia, and, if true, it is necessary for him to have competent people in key positions. WaPo reports that King Salman was a great disciplinarian and had set up a jail on palace grounds in Riyadh to incarcerate law-breaking Royals. He also seems to be pursuing a policy of asserting Saudi dominance in that region rather than one of status quo complacency created by erstwhile high oil prices and pursued by King Abdullah.
Looks like Obama is an equal opportunity offender: he offended Bibi with his stance toward Iran; Now, he seems to have offended King Salman with the same concessional stand toward Iran.
Way to go, Obama.
-----------------------------
There are some speculations that King Salman may have dementia, and, if true, it is necessary for him to have competent people in key positions. WaPo reports that King Salman was a great disciplinarian and had set up a jail on palace grounds in Riyadh to incarcerate law-breaking Royals. He also seems to be pursuing a policy of asserting Saudi dominance in that region rather than one of status quo complacency created by erstwhile high oil prices and pursued by King Abdullah.
Looks like Obama is an equal opportunity offender: he offended Bibi with his stance toward Iran; Now, he seems to have offended King Salman with the same concessional stand toward Iran.
Way to go, Obama.
2
O should realize that all saw his scheduled 'dog and pony' show to be just a farce. These Arab states are experts at seeing weakness in their adversaries and friends. These states do not get con'd easily. What is clear is that these states have begun the process of acquiring their own nuclear weapons. Poof, there goes O's idea that nuclear proliferation in the Middle East can be stopped. So, no matter what O's deal of Iran becomes, it will quickly unravel as Iran will quickly know it needs to go nuclear since all the states in the Gulf will have those weapons. O's once again proved his stupidity.
President Obama said there is no way we can stop proliferation. We are trying to slow it down and seek reason amidst chaos. This administration was handed Pandora's Box already opened by the Bush administration.
People wonder not, but know, why the US is allied to the most backward and corrupt regimes in Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America. It's very hard to endorse it's policies.
2
Saudi priorities have been spreading Wahhabism (in other words Muslim terrorism) throughout out the world and maintaining high oil prices. They are not our interests, so we should respond accordingly. Successive U. S. administrations have given Saudis a free pass to get away with actions that are harmful to us.
Obama is right. It's time to distance ourselves from Saudi Arabia.
Obama is right. It's time to distance ourselves from Saudi Arabia.
23
Israel attacks Gaza's densely populated cities . Sole focus is civilian suffering and war crimes investigations. Saudis attack Yemen's densely populated cities. Media silence or minimalist recognition. Israel gets active about a deal with Iran and rapprochement-light. Saudi's get active about a deal with Iran and rapprochement-light. Media silence or minimalist recognition. Really, you have two countries, Saudi Arabia and Israel, taking action against external threats in bordering nations but a general reader of the news would never see the parallel from the focus of the news reports. So very interesting. Bias in media? Hard to see it otherwise.
2
Saudi Arabia is source of most of these terrorists, Al-Qaeda, ISIS and the rest! Sooner or later this backward system will collapse and there will be something worst than Iran! Because Iranian people are not radical as Saudis are. Now you have a radical people with all these money. The 19 who did the 9/11 where all Saudis! Sad thing is that there is no democratic alternative among the people!!
10
And with their money they are destroying any possible moderation in the Moslems around the world by creating Islamic Wahhabi schools and mosques in Moslem and western countries, they are strengthening ISIS, Al Nusra and Al Qaeda. By supporting Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and the likes, the US, whether it knows it or not, is supporting the people it pretends to be fighting
Let's stop being involved with nations who treat women like slaves, stone women to death, behead citizens for their sexuality,etc, etc etc.
Why is the U.S. giving any of these 9th century run governments the time of day....we do not need their oil, we do not need anything from any of these nations including Israel. Let them settle their own tribal,wars. Tired of supporting countries who would kill almost every American teenage girls because of how she looks.
Let the Middle East solve its own issues.
Why is the U.S. giving any of these 9th century run governments the time of day....we do not need their oil, we do not need anything from any of these nations including Israel. Let them settle their own tribal,wars. Tired of supporting countries who would kill almost every American teenage girls because of how she looks.
Let the Middle East solve its own issues.
15
I met King Salman in 2000. Even then I am not sure if he did not display signs of early dementia. I am not sure whether he is just a figurehead in the Saudi government and the real power lies with the Crown Prince who is coming to the Washington summit. In the meeting of 2000, my fondest memory was King Salman's tea server with his 45 caliber pistol on his waist.
8
Early dementia is perhaps the reason he is not coming to Washington. They (the Saudi) don't want their king to show he is only a puppet.
It's in America's interest to normalize relations with Iran and distance itself from Saudi Arabia (funder of terrorism against US) and Israel (cause of terrorism against US)
22
In honor of the 10,881 young Americans, and counting, who have died on the desert soils of the Middle East for no real purpose but oil we continue to thank President Barack Obama for being the only adult in the room for proceeding to disentangle the United States from a dysfunctional relationship with the Middle East. Hopefully the next president will continue to keep-us-out!
21
I'd hardly call extending the war in Afghanistan and killing civilians with drones "disentangling".
The Saudis are, as the article pointed out, threatened by a potentially nuclear weapon armed Iran in precisely the way Israel is. The rebellion literally next door by enemies cannot be ignored by them either. Israel learned too late that rockets in its neighbor (Gaza) did not portend well for its cities, towns and citizens. So both countries are fearful of the certain to come treaty with Iran. They can oppose it by staying home, giving speeches to congress but at the end of the day the treaty will be announced, count on it, and history will judge the wisdom of those that favor or oppose it ,not the commentators, including myself, who write here.
4
Sounds to me like poor lil' Saudi Arabia is throwing a temper tantrum because the United States is giving some attention to Iran.
Cry me a river of oil, why don't you?
Cry me a river of oil, why don't you?
19
Americans must realize how all of the wars of the past few decades as well as 9/11 are directly connected to Western imperialism and keeping these Saudi Wahabi despots on their thrones. The West has always wanted to keep the region weak, fragmented, and ruled by pliant despots and thus ironically next to despots like the Saud or Al-Nahayan families no one has feared democracy more than the US, France, Britain, and Israel. This has been true from the coup against Mossadeq in Iran in 1953 to the coup against Morsi in Egypt in 2013. I always tell my fellow Americans that the vast majority of Muslims despise the deviant Wahabi sect more than they do. However, this sect and the despotism it has given birth to directly came to power under the auspices of Western imperialism which sought to fragment the modernizing Ottoman Muslim State. In addition to giving carte blanche support to Israel because of the Zionist and Armageddon Evangelical lobbies, the other pillar of US strategy in the region has been to keep the very Saudi family which gave birth to ISIS in power and siphon off the vast wealth of the Muslim world on palaces, prostitutes, and corrupt arms deals rather than socio-economic development in the region. This ongoing Western imperialism however has proven to be too clever by half as the US has never made a profit from its military invasions of the region and this also directly led to 9/11 which happened for a number of reasons none of which had to do with your "freedom".
24
This is completely correct.
Now add to that the slow realization that what Mohammad has wrought on this population by encouraging consanguinity, and the devastating genetic outcomes, and here we are.
Now add to that the slow realization that what Mohammad has wrought on this population by encouraging consanguinity, and the devastating genetic outcomes, and here we are.
The day of 9/11, former president GHW Bush and former US secretary of state James Baker were in a meeting of Carlyle Group investors and pals; among them was a wealthy scion named Fahad Bin Laden, whose brother was busy masterminding the attacks on that evil day. The Bush kids grew up with the Bin Ladens, and also with the Saudi royal family as best friends. The connections, personal and financial, between the dynasties were profound.
It's no wonder that, despite Bin Laden's being Saudi, 15 of the 19 hijackers' being Saudi, their extremist and violent ideology's being Saudi, the one nation NEVER mentioned in connection with the attacks was Saudi Arabia. Oh, no, it was Afghanistan, it was Iraq. It was the whole dang Middle East, and we'd have to pay, kill, and die to "remake" the place, even as the Saudis sat and watched, knowing they'd never be held to account. Not as long as their allies in the US held power.
Now for the first time in a LONG time, it's possible to start breaking up this harmful consortium of business and personal interests, and to build relationships that are based on our own nation's interests and the world's need of peace. But for sure this: if the republicans gain power again, and especially a Bush, the old bargains and secret deals and mutual-profit schemes will be back in place, to the rest of our loss, to our great loss.
It's no wonder that, despite Bin Laden's being Saudi, 15 of the 19 hijackers' being Saudi, their extremist and violent ideology's being Saudi, the one nation NEVER mentioned in connection with the attacks was Saudi Arabia. Oh, no, it was Afghanistan, it was Iraq. It was the whole dang Middle East, and we'd have to pay, kill, and die to "remake" the place, even as the Saudis sat and watched, knowing they'd never be held to account. Not as long as their allies in the US held power.
Now for the first time in a LONG time, it's possible to start breaking up this harmful consortium of business and personal interests, and to build relationships that are based on our own nation's interests and the world's need of peace. But for sure this: if the republicans gain power again, and especially a Bush, the old bargains and secret deals and mutual-profit schemes will be back in place, to the rest of our loss, to our great loss.
82
And the Saudi govt is one of the most repressive govts in the world. The king is a dictator. And no one's rights are respected.
I think Bush the Elder attended the annual investor conference of the Carlyle Group the day before 9/11. This conference was also attended by one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers although I am not sure the name was Fahad.
You haven't educated yourself: 1) Osama bin Laden wanted nothing more in the world than to topple the Saudi government and then step in to control the world's largest proven oil reserves; 2) Terrorist attacks rocked the Kingdom for years, and Osama & Co. were exiled; 3) bin Laden was savvy, he recruited other radicalized terrorists who had Saudi citizenship for 9/11. Why? Because he could trust that ill-informed, provincial Americans would forever perpetuate the myth that "Saudis were behind 9/11."
It's a complex world, friend...complex. And remember Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, claimed to be a US Patriot -- and a Christian! So, American Patriots and Christians perpetrated the OK City bombing, right??
Of course not!
It's a complex world, friend...complex. And remember Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, claimed to be a US Patriot -- and a Christian! So, American Patriots and Christians perpetrated the OK City bombing, right??
Of course not!
1
Remind me how much oil we import from the Saudis?
1
It's a little more complicated than that. Our consumption, whether from domestic production or imports, is part of world demand and therefore determines oil prices. Worldwide production relative to demand is what matters. If our consumption were removed oil prices would move substantially downward. The technology making this possible would be used by others leading to an oil price collapse which would result in Saudi Arabia having a lot less money to make mischief with. Not a bad thing.
Since 9/11, it has been difficult to forget Pres. Bush II arranged for a group of Saudis to fly home despite the grounding of all US commercial flights and despite the known information that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
As we attacked Afghanistan to root out where the planners hid and eliminate the "government" that sheltered them, many of us wondered why the Saudis were safe from any punishment. Was it only oil? Was it a Bush alliance with the House of Saud? And then as a distraction, came the invasion of Iraq which shattered any stability in the region-- possibly for generations.
For most in the US, the Islamic Middle East remains a black hole of tangled tribal alliances, extreme religious teachings and stability only achieved by violent dictators/kings who buy the loyalty of their citizens with Western oil profits and using US arms. Our friends in the region do not share our values and our enemies are in power because of policies we supported in the past. Most Westerners obtain their limited knowledge of the area by working for the global oil companies or through contact with the refugees who have fled the current governments.
It is not surprising so many comments--those that do not take the opportunity to blame President Obama--support isolationist policies now that "fracking" has freed us from oil slavery to OPEC. We ignore the region at our peril, however.
As we attacked Afghanistan to root out where the planners hid and eliminate the "government" that sheltered them, many of us wondered why the Saudis were safe from any punishment. Was it only oil? Was it a Bush alliance with the House of Saud? And then as a distraction, came the invasion of Iraq which shattered any stability in the region-- possibly for generations.
For most in the US, the Islamic Middle East remains a black hole of tangled tribal alliances, extreme religious teachings and stability only achieved by violent dictators/kings who buy the loyalty of their citizens with Western oil profits and using US arms. Our friends in the region do not share our values and our enemies are in power because of policies we supported in the past. Most Westerners obtain their limited knowledge of the area by working for the global oil companies or through contact with the refugees who have fled the current governments.
It is not surprising so many comments--those that do not take the opportunity to blame President Obama--support isolationist policies now that "fracking" has freed us from oil slavery to OPEC. We ignore the region at our peril, however.
4
I guess that Reset button was for more than our relationship with Russia.
1
Two of the regions mid sized powers have been knocked for a loop by Obama's backtracking on promises made regarding keeping Iran under control. It is looking more and more that they know something and he does not. America's failure to back its promises to long-term allies will have effects that might be Obama's ultimate legacy.
2
Another Obama failure. Right now SA is engaged in a war in Yemen, which is a place that Obama insisted, for domestic consumption only, of course, was a ringing foreign policy success, even as the government we were ostensibly supporting crumbled before our eyes.
And now, Saudi Arabia seeks nuclear weapons because it is clear to everyone that Obama's capitulation to Iran, far from keeping them from developing nukes, actually inevitably paves the way for it.
For 50 years, Israel had nuclear weapons yet somehow avoided setting off a wider arms race. Then along comes Obama with his arrogance and his "smart diplomacy" and lo and behold the region is on fire and everyone and their uncle is making move towards getting nukes.
Meanwhile, Obama says nothing, tacitly encouraging this arms race, knowing full well what is going on, because, I would argue, this is what he wanted all along: a counter-balance to US and especially Israeli power...
...Which might have been a legitimate policy goal had he just been honest about it up from. But he is not, by any means, an honest man.
And now, Saudi Arabia seeks nuclear weapons because it is clear to everyone that Obama's capitulation to Iran, far from keeping them from developing nukes, actually inevitably paves the way for it.
For 50 years, Israel had nuclear weapons yet somehow avoided setting off a wider arms race. Then along comes Obama with his arrogance and his "smart diplomacy" and lo and behold the region is on fire and everyone and their uncle is making move towards getting nukes.
Meanwhile, Obama says nothing, tacitly encouraging this arms race, knowing full well what is going on, because, I would argue, this is what he wanted all along: a counter-balance to US and especially Israeli power...
...Which might have been a legitimate policy goal had he just been honest about it up from. But he is not, by any means, an honest man.
3
What the President said about Saudi Arabia a few days ago needed to be said for a very long time. They are part of the root cause and funding for terrorism across the world. The President refused to get into a Shia- Sunni conflict just as he as avoided other conflicts. I think that is a smart decision. If the King thinks he can snub one of the most deliberate Presidents in recent times into action, he will have to wait for a very long time. By snubbing the President,Saudi Arabia may have hurt its cause. The immaturity of this despot is so obvious with almost all his recent decisions - goes to war with Yemen pounding the sands, declares ceasefire only to pound the sands again, distributes Rolls Royces to Pilots who bombed civilians, Snubs the US President, talks about buying his own nuclear weapon. puts his young son in charge - and the list goes on. Should we worry about it? Yes cause this man will create more instability in his own kingdom. Thank God! We have our own oil.
9
King Salman has correctly decided to follow Mr. Netanyahu's lead in rejecting the idea that Iran can ever be trusted with nuclear weapons.
When Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis will want them too and will be looking to get them wherever they can, maybe even from Israel.
Stranger alliances have occured.
When Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis will want them too and will be looking to get them wherever they can, maybe even from Israel.
Stranger alliances have occured.
3
Why can Israel be trusted with hundreds of nukes and long range missiles, Mr. Stanton?
Because they're Jews, or because they aren't Muslim?
Meanwhile - if you have evidence that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon, you might want to inform the IAEA about that. They're currently in Iran monitoring their nuclear material.
Israel refuses to let them in, of course.
Because they're Jews, or because they aren't Muslim?
Meanwhile - if you have evidence that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon, you might want to inform the IAEA about that. They're currently in Iran monitoring their nuclear material.
Israel refuses to let them in, of course.
1
Israel can be trusted with them because they've never threatened anyone with them and because they are not a one-band led by a religious fanatic.
1
If there was no oil under its sands, there would be no “Saudi” Arabia, or what passes for the royal family ruling it.
Until the Americans and the British stuck oil, the king used to carry his treasury in a wood box in his caravan, and was dependent on good flow of pilgrims every year, mostly from the Indian sub-continent, for sustenance.
After hitting the hydrocarbon jackpot, this “royal” family, along with its cohorts and enablers of various sorts are squarely responsible for poisoning and retrograding Islam from a religion that had started to somewhat progress towards modernity in 1950s to a cult of the pure where no one is “pure” enough, for there is always someone purer that the purest.
Many Americans, many more non-Americans, and most Muslims have died unnatural deaths due to Saudis and their Wahabbi co-religionists foisting their dark agenda wrapped in shiny Dollars, on Muslims worldwide.
And the tragedy is that they fail to see the death, damage and destruction they cause trying to “purify” the world to their version of Islam, which is absolutely devoid of joy, color, music, or culture, and so unlike the Islam this non-Muslim observed up close when growing up in India.
Until the Americans and the British stuck oil, the king used to carry his treasury in a wood box in his caravan, and was dependent on good flow of pilgrims every year, mostly from the Indian sub-continent, for sustenance.
After hitting the hydrocarbon jackpot, this “royal” family, along with its cohorts and enablers of various sorts are squarely responsible for poisoning and retrograding Islam from a religion that had started to somewhat progress towards modernity in 1950s to a cult of the pure where no one is “pure” enough, for there is always someone purer that the purest.
Many Americans, many more non-Americans, and most Muslims have died unnatural deaths due to Saudis and their Wahabbi co-religionists foisting their dark agenda wrapped in shiny Dollars, on Muslims worldwide.
And the tragedy is that they fail to see the death, damage and destruction they cause trying to “purify” the world to their version of Islam, which is absolutely devoid of joy, color, music, or culture, and so unlike the Islam this non-Muslim observed up close when growing up in India.
11
I cannot help but think to myself; What influence has Israel had on the House of Saud?
I do not think things are as simple as it appears to be. The Iran/Saudi Arabia proxy rivalry for Sunni and Shia religious divisions in Islam is not the entirety of this dance. Actions on all sides seem to lack enlightened self interest which indicates a hidden driver of the thinking behind it.
Name that dragon and you can slay it.
I do not think things are as simple as it appears to be. The Iran/Saudi Arabia proxy rivalry for Sunni and Shia religious divisions in Islam is not the entirety of this dance. Actions on all sides seem to lack enlightened self interest which indicates a hidden driver of the thinking behind it.
Name that dragon and you can slay it.
2
Enough of the tailwaggin the dog...let Salman see how far he gets without U.S. backing.
6
There's no way to see the ascendency of King Salman as positive. He is a reactionary figure, promoting religious fanaticism in an Arab nation known for its fanatics. It is not a meaningless fact that so many of the al Qaeda operatives who attacked the Twin Towers came from Saudi Arabia. The Saudis fund much of the Sunni violence in Iraq and elsewhere in the middle east. The US has turned a blind eye to the sins of the Saudis, because of petro politics. Perhaps no longer, as the capacity of the Saudis to determine the supply of oil fades? If King Salman decides to punish the Americans for negotiating with the Iranians, then Obama is clearly doing something right. The King may hasten a long-awaited re-adjustment in US middle east policy. We should not support a government of violent religious zealots, run through a medieval class system based on outrageous privilege and discrimination. If it's a choice bet. rapprochement with Iran and continuing support for a corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia, let's choose Iran.
7
King Salman ios merely acknowledging one of the worst kept secrets of the Middle East (even less of a secret than Israel's bomb): Saudi backs ISIS and other Islamist groups so long as they are organized and fighting outside of Saudi territory.
The fact that the US doesn't need Saudi oil and has become a petro-competitor means the King no longer needs to get with our government's program of deceit and lying to the American public. Republican or Democrat its all been pretty tawdry.
The fact that the US doesn't need Saudi oil and has become a petro-competitor means the King no longer needs to get with our government's program of deceit and lying to the American public. Republican or Democrat its all been pretty tawdry.
11
Sounds like the NYT grows nostalgic for the days when the Saudis' had the Bush family at their beck & call --- Former oil-baron-kid George even being gracious enough to provide a plane to ship their client's wives and children (Osama bin-Laden) out of the USA just after 9/11. Perhaps another oil man in the Saudis' pocket could set things right --- maybe a Bush III?
8
Before long, Mr. Netanyahu is gonna be the only Middle East leader willing to meet-up with President Obama.
2
The Middle-Eastern countries attending this summit want the USA to guarantee their security with a NATO like treaty structure. Isn't that the real point of this summit? We would be fools beyond comprehension to do this.
9
King Salman has correctly decided to follow Mr. Netanyahu's lead in rejecting the idea that Iran can ever be trusted with nuclear weapons.
When Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis will want them too and will be looking to get them wherever they can, maybe even from Israel.
Stranger alliances have occurred.
When Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis will want them too and will be looking to get them wherever they can, maybe even from Israel.
Stranger alliances have occurred.
2
Some people are starting to notice that Saudi Arabia is the font of Islamic Radicalism, which should have been obvious for about a decade now. The Kingdom has created the forces of terror which plague the ME and stokes the paranoia of the doyens of the American Security State. With the ascent of King Salman it appears that the Kingdom has gone ultra nationalist, and it has turned its alliances upside down by using al Qaeda and Isis as shock troops in its proxy wars to redraw the map of the Middle East in favor of the continued dominance of OPEC by a muscular Foreign Policy designed to control Shia resources and contain Shia gas distribution.
The US seems to be mostly on board with the goals of the Kingdom, and Israel certainly has no problem with more upheaval, which provides opportunity for the Israeli Anschluss to proceed unnoticed and unmolested. However; it is a bit dodgy to be summoning American Resources to fight in the FOREVER War on Terror, when it is our Sunni Ally which is providing most of the terror!
Israel gets around this by raving on about the Iranian Threat, and naturally they accuse Iran of being the wellspring of radicalism. Some American Politicians like Marco Rubio have jumped on the Israeli led bash Iran bandwagon, but the narrative is false.
The upshot is that King Salman has gone every bit as rogue as has his ultra nationalist counterpart Bibi Netanyahu in order to push the American People into complicity with radical aims that we don't support?
The US seems to be mostly on board with the goals of the Kingdom, and Israel certainly has no problem with more upheaval, which provides opportunity for the Israeli Anschluss to proceed unnoticed and unmolested. However; it is a bit dodgy to be summoning American Resources to fight in the FOREVER War on Terror, when it is our Sunni Ally which is providing most of the terror!
Israel gets around this by raving on about the Iranian Threat, and naturally they accuse Iran of being the wellspring of radicalism. Some American Politicians like Marco Rubio have jumped on the Israeli led bash Iran bandwagon, but the narrative is false.
The upshot is that King Salman has gone every bit as rogue as has his ultra nationalist counterpart Bibi Netanyahu in order to push the American People into complicity with radical aims that we don't support?
4
If neither China nor Russia are attractive alternatives at the moment to an alliance with the United States for Saudi Arabia, at some point the situation may change. As China gets stronger militarily and politically, our autocratic "allies" in the Middle East might find they can cut a better deal. Wouldn't it be better for the United States if there were a more representative government, and a more free society in Saudi Arabia when such a choice becomes feasible?
We should use our influence and leverage wisely while we have it. The more we stand up for democracy and human rights -- withdrawing our support of authoritarian governments -- and the more we start acting like a democracy ourselves, the more genuine friendships and respect we will find around the world.
We should use our influence and leverage wisely while we have it. The more we stand up for democracy and human rights -- withdrawing our support of authoritarian governments -- and the more we start acting like a democracy ourselves, the more genuine friendships and respect we will find around the world.
1
It's imperative to US national security and economic interests to have, at the very least, an open dialogue with every member nation of the UN, ideally on as many levels as possible. If Saudis are upset that we are negotiating with Iran, the Saudis need to get over it.
7
A companion article indicated that Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations took offense to President Obama's pointing out the reality of the legions of disaffected young people within their countries, many highly educated with no outlet for their skills or aspirations. That is a recipe for unrest and turmoil. Saudi Arabia is ripe for rebellion and the chaos that comes with it. We need not be forced into choosing sides between Sunni and Shiites. Beside the conflict between these two groups the internal unrest within them will keep the MidEast in turmoil for the immediate future. It must resolve itself.
3
The difference in the viewpoints of the two allies--the U.S. and Saudia Arabia--is one of perspective. As a much larger country, with numerous global responsibilities and sophisticated weapons at its disposal, the U.S. has to weigh and manage the many, many irons that it has in the fire.
At the same time, Saudia Arabia has more immediate reasons to fear its bellicose neighbor. Generally, the Saudis are used to manipulating, behind the scenes, by funding various regional players, rather than actually getting down and dirty.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
At the same time, Saudia Arabia has more immediate reasons to fear its bellicose neighbor. Generally, the Saudis are used to manipulating, behind the scenes, by funding various regional players, rather than actually getting down and dirty.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
At least now the Saudi government is willing to show its true face to the world. For decades we have been in an alliance of convenience with this thoroughly rotten state because of our need for its oil, despite the fact that its government is opposed to virtually every principle upon which the U.S was founded and that it regularly has given aid to fundamentalist religious terrorists. The really sad thing is that our government has known this for decades but willingly ignored it to keep the oil flowing. Meet the new boss...same as the old boss, but just willing to discard the mask -
14
Of course religious conservatism is the bottom line and all that matters is Sunni sect domination of Islam and compared to the Shiite and other minor adversaries with Ayatollahs in charge. Such deadly animosities are the root cause that centuries old. The worst of it is that Islamic indifference is not better or worst just as it is in Christianity or various Judeo factions of conservative orthodoxy.
IRAN is the most pro-American Nation in Asia and Africa combined and is the Ideal Ally for the US despite all the rhetoric by All sides....
AND no one has put it any better than Karim Sajjadpour, an Iran expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: “There’s a growing perception at the White House that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia are friends but not allies, while the U.S. and Iran are allies but not friends.”
AND I will take Iran as an Ally and a Friend over the House of Saud any day!
AND no one has put it any better than Karim Sajjadpour, an Iran expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: “There’s a growing perception at the White House that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia are friends but not allies, while the U.S. and Iran are allies but not friends.”
AND I will take Iran as an Ally and a Friend over the House of Saud any day!
24
Finally all coming to the surface. The origin of jihad is the extremely conservative Wahhabism, that the so called Royal family has strongly financed, in exchange for retaining their privileges of oil wealth. That same oil wealth has been the reason why US politicians, at the behest of the oil industry, has looked the other way when it came to the true responsibility behind 9/11 and the spread of Islamic extremism. The current president is looking for a more balanced focus of engagement of the region, and the new Saudi King is furious. Glad to see us backing away enough from the monied corruption to start figuring on our own well being, and not just satisfying the greed of those who will put up with the same old dangerous trends to maintain the flow of $ to their coffers. Unfortunately, the leading candidates for both parties in the next election harken back strongly to those same privileged ties.
13
Good for them. Obama is reaping what his hands has Sown. He Strengthen their Monarchies, helped them level Yemen, helped them get rid of their adversaries, the Arab world is getting cleansed out of minorities. and the Wahhabi Branch of Islam is stronger than ever.
1
Do u think Obama gets the message when allies (now former allies) are trying to tell him something - like we don't think making friends in the playground with the worst terrorist state in the world is the best thing for us?
This is really hard to say, but I'm glad the Saudis kicked sand in Obama's face - he deserves it.
This is really hard to say, but I'm glad the Saudis kicked sand in Obama's face - he deserves it.
3
worst terrorist state in the world is SA, most 9/11 hijackers were SA nationals, no iranians involved moron
If the United States has truly taken oil out of the equation, then why get involved? The age and lack of credentials of 29 year-old Prince Salman is a valid reason to stay out of the area or at least to give the new management time to develop.
1
It has been pretty obvious to the Saudi King and other leaders around the globe that Obama's foreign policy of retreating in defeat from every conflict area means that the US is not a reliable or dependable partner for the Saudi King and others. Obama has damaged US credibility and dependability and reliability in foreign policy to the greatest extent in America's history. American voters need to pay attention to this because world affairs and conflicts will only get far worse if Hilary Clinton the great obfuscator gets elected.
1
I personally could care less about propping up a Dynastic Monarchy in this day and age. For a all problems in Iran, don't they still have elections? I really don't think it's a good idea to support such anachronistic governments. We should keep them at a distance and definitely not tie up our future to their inevitable fate.
3
Compare freedom in Saudi Arabia to freedom in Iran. Compare US interests in both. Compare how each supports terrorists in other countries. Only a fool would make a deal with Iran and shun the interests of Saudi Arabia!
Gene, in Iran there are elections and in Saudi Arabia there are none. I'd make a deal with Iran any day over Saudi Arabia.
Having lived for five years in Jeddah I can tell you there is probably no place other than North Korea where there is more government repression than in Saudi Arabia. Open your mouth and you disappear into an "attitude correction" facility to be tortured and realigned. We expats working there used to joke about going to the Soviet Union for a "freedom break" when we tired of the daily oppression. The leaders there are monsters interested only in preserving their privilege at any cost. They can be gracious and friendly when it suits them but watch out if you step out of line.
Everything costs money. If multinational corporations don't want to pay more taxes, let them defend themselves worldwide. We do not depend on ME oil as much as before. China consumes more oil than we do now. Let them defend and keep ME oil flowing to them. We just focus on buying more goods from China so they have money to expand their military to do just that. Then everyone is happy, right?
2
Why do we consider the Saudis our friends? They have exported their own brand of terror in the region and sent terrorists to attack America. The diplomatic snub from the Saudis is as calculated as Netanyahu's address to Congress. The persistent folly of American foreign policy to only consider the short term and naively trust those who can never be trusted has to change to reflect reality and plan for the long term. Our enemies do that, why can't we?
99
Oil. The Saudi's burned us hard a couple of times in the 70's when they wanted to signal their displeasure, so we've been very careful to remain on their good side since.
One could argue that the decades-long support for the Saudis is very far from being a short term consideration. For decades one long term consideration has been oil; another has been using the Sunni vs Shia rivalry; yet another is Israel, as Saudis don't proclaim any desire to eradicate it.
All those are decidedly long term; but US oil output now lessens our dependence on Saudi Arabia.
All those are decidedly long term; but US oil output now lessens our dependence on Saudi Arabia.
Let the status quo be upended; let the teenagers dance; let the unroyal prosper; let free States make peace with whomever they choose; let the non-Muslim -- including the non-theist-- live freely with full rights; LET THE WOMEN HAVE BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS--let them clothe themselves as they wish, marry who/when/if they wish, educate themselves where, when and how they wish -- let them DRIVE whenever and where ever they wish for whatever purpose they wish; Yes: let the bells toll and toll and toll for one of the most oppressive, other-hating dictatorships on the planet. A single tear should not be shed for the loss of this alliance.
2
After reading this article and the author's characterization of Saudi Arabia as a place where "dissenting views can lead to prison" what came to my mind was a reminder that while close-by Iran is at times portrayed as a more tolerant regime, Mr. Hubbard's article would never be allowed to be published in Iran. He would be expelled and denied a reentry visa. The press these days likes to attack the conservative countries in the region, but is somewhat lenient towards Iran, even questioning Iran's military support for the Houthis - support that Iranian officials in public and private boast about! Read Erdbrink's stories from Tehran to see the limits of criticism that regime tolerates.
We need to cut our ties with the Saudis..I know they buy lots of weapons from us. I know The Royal Saudi family and the Royal Bush family are ever so close due to their ties with The Carlyle Group. We need to withdraw from the middle east. To that end the US should start turning some of our war-making instruments toward other projects, like renewable energy, infrastructure repair. We need to stop selling SA warplanes and cousining up to them for their oil. Never forget most of the perpetrators on 9/11 were Saudis. They are NOT our friends. Better we should befriend Iran if we feel we need a friend in the middle east.
13
The Saudi Monarch is currently avoiding meeting with President Obama. What could be a clearer indicator that this Administration's cozying up to the Iranians is self-defeating? If the so-called "framework" were actually worth the paper it's written on, wouldn't the Saudi's welcome a deal actually assuring a non-nuclear Iran?
..or it could indicate that the Saudis absolutely don't want to see international relations normalized with Iran since that'd bolster a regional competitor? In that case, disrupting any sort of international agreement with Iran is more important than the details of said agreement, and that seems to be the common Saudi (and Israeli) goal.
American presidents, especially the Bushes, have coddled the Saudis too long.
President Obama is the first one to not do so. Their latest moves give us more room to make alliances that reflect American values better, and will lead to more stability in the long run.
President Obama is the first one to not do so. Their latest moves give us more room to make alliances that reflect American values better, and will lead to more stability in the long run.
136
Unfortunately, Their values do reflect American values. I am not talking about our professed values about democracy and women’s rights and equality, I am talking about valuing profit above social justice; about using our military to force other countries to submit to American corporations’ exploitation of their natural resources (usually called “opening up markets”); and directly, or covertly (through supporting rebels who will do our bidding) to overthrow governments that resist submitting to American domination of their economies and politics.
Rescind the Carter Doctrine.
1
How many Americans are the Saudis responsible for murdering? Too many to count.
2
King Salman is giving us a great opportunity to rethink our relationship with Saudi Arabia. We should capitalize on it by curtailing both military support and restricting sales of weapons.
Failing to do so is to further equip one of the greatest exporters of terrorism in the Middle East, one that is headed in the direction of escalation of aggression on a more conventional basis. If we continue our pandering of this regime, we're going to be sorry....
Failing to do so is to further equip one of the greatest exporters of terrorism in the Middle East, one that is headed in the direction of escalation of aggression on a more conventional basis. If we continue our pandering of this regime, we're going to be sorry....
104
Unfortunately, international relations don't really work that way. If we push Saudi Arabia away, I'd expect that they'd cozy up to China pretty quickly. Since China's international goals seem to revolve around securing long term access to critical strategic resources, the alliance would make a lot of sense for them.
Now, of course, that might happen regardless of what we do and there are terrible costs for the US in supporting the Saudi regime, so it's hardly a black and white issue.
Now, of course, that might happen regardless of what we do and there are terrible costs for the US in supporting the Saudi regime, so it's hardly a black and white issue.
Try to envisage living in a country like Saudi Arabia? A faux nation created out of the oil interests of the West. There is absolutely no right to free expression and the idea of the rights of women is alien. Crimes can be punished by beheading. Religious extremism and the funding of religious extremists is rampant.
19
For the US, the key language here is, "he has sanctioned allying with Islamists to serve the kingdom’s agenda" and "King Salman has a history of working with Islamists. Decades ago, he was a royal point man and fund-raiser for jihadists."
He is our jihadist enemy in Iraq and Syria. Saudis are the money behind the threat, and have been since 9/11.
This is another reason why we need to make Iran our friend, instead of the back-stabbing "friends" we've got now.
He is our jihadist enemy in Iraq and Syria. Saudis are the money behind the threat, and have been since 9/11.
This is another reason why we need to make Iran our friend, instead of the back-stabbing "friends" we've got now.
21
Now, of course, the US was funding and supporting jihadis as well for quite a bit of time and indeed we funneled and coordinated much of that through Saudi Arabia. So, it's not like working with islamists was always a problem from the US perspective.
1
I think that it's time that someone remind this so-called "king" that he's gotten a little too big for his britches. Who elected him to anything?
2
15 of the 19 terrorists involved with 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia and much speculation that they were funded by members of the royal family. What exactly is the relationship we are trying to protect?
8
Isn't this the same as saying that since some terrorists are muslim then all muslims must be terrorists?
While King Salman was still crown prince, he criticised the late King Abdullah's extent of forging - gradual - reforms. Now after 100 days in office he is being criticised by opponents for the speed of shaking up the House of Saud, by appointing a nephew as crown prince and making his young son second in line to the throne.
That King Salman has decided to stay away from the Camp David talks with Obama shouldn't be taken as an affront. Perhaps his health is poor! He has sent Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef and his son, Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to take his place. Almost all powers in the kingdom are now concentrated in the hands of this pair, who determine all security and economic development issues in Saudi Arabia.
So it's important for the Obama administration to reach out to these two men and work with them instead!
That King Salman has decided to stay away from the Camp David talks with Obama shouldn't be taken as an affront. Perhaps his health is poor! He has sent Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef and his son, Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to take his place. Almost all powers in the kingdom are now concentrated in the hands of this pair, who determine all security and economic development issues in Saudi Arabia.
So it's important for the Obama administration to reach out to these two men and work with them instead!
6
And, he is a ruler at war or the verge of war with Yemen. Crown may not feel all that secure with what's going on in the neighborhood. Can't much blame him for sticking to his knitting.
Americans are myopic and self referential about just how the world works and this is spun to partisan advantage. So, GOP and MSM will say, 'see every body hates Obama".
Nobody snubs their number one arms supplier.
Americans are myopic and self referential about just how the world works and this is spun to partisan advantage. So, GOP and MSM will say, 'see every body hates Obama".
Nobody snubs their number one arms supplier.
I wouldn't be surprised if the king had gotten wind of the displeasure of the American people with formerly secret Saudi political activities, which could put a real damper on aid they may receive. However, propping up Sunni sects around the region will not smooth US-Saudi relations.
In fact were King Abdullah still alive, he may have dealt with the conflict in Yemen differently. He was seen as the best Saudi king so far, for trying to reach out to the Shia minority in the kingdom.
King Salman, fearing Iran's influence in the region, would roll back Abdullah's effort.
King Salman, fearing Iran's influence in the region, would roll back Abdullah's effort.
2
Unfortunately, the president has no relationship with this new Saudi ruler. The next president will have to work at rebuilding this relationship because despite the problems in that country, an ally is not something that should be discarded. Ever.
2
Saudi Arabia is the financial source of much of the terrorism in the mid-East, including 9/11.
This is an 'ally' that should be discarded quickly.
This is an 'ally' that should be discarded quickly.
8
Why? They have been the hot bed of radical Islam all along. The kings supported those sects in order to keep them quiet in SA. We need to just back away and let the ME go as it wishes. If oil prices climb too much, so be it. We will still be better off by getting out of there. Use all the foreign aid we pump into these corrupt states to subsidize gas prices at home. But kissing their butts is a worn out policy that should be changed.
1
Oh yes. Saudi Arabia is such a model for democracy and human rights and everything else that American stands for, we should cultivate an intimate relationship and let them dictate our foreign policy.
1
This is now getting so funny. Having learned from Israel, now even Saudi Arabia is trying to dictate what US policy should be towards Iran. Well the Saudis will have to start buying off US congressmen and senators before they start making such demands.
184
"Saudis will have to start buying off US congressmen and senators"
Already sold. No more available. No rain checks.
Already sold. No more available. No rain checks.
6
What makes you think they haven't already? With the election next year you will see foreign dark money pouring in the back door. The Clinton "charities" have benefited and the hawkish Republican candidates will unquestionably benefit. This will be a true show of what "American Exceptionalism" means. The sad current definition of democracy here is now government for sale to the plutocracy.
2
They have indeed learned from the Israeli's experience: Obama is trying to reinvent the wheel using only right handed tools learned in the school for scoundrels. When Obama decided in the backrooms of Kenya, Indonesia and Chicago that the US was the problem and had too much influence on world affairs he decided if he ever grew up he would change that and go in another direction. Ergo in 2008 a power vacuum.
We do not belong in the Middle East. Ignorant people should not meddle in countries with complex prejudices based on ethnicity, religion, and culture. Let's face it, the United States is managed by ignorant, biased politicians. Worse yet, most are Christians or Jews, minorities in that region. We have to stop protecting U.S. businesses and political interests in that region. If a company wanted to set up on an active volcano, we wouldn't waste tax dollars helping it. Why do we support businesses operating in a war that has lasted over a thousand years?
105
Well we are experiencing a policy change along the lines of your poly-annish policy of "America is the problem" (for 100 years) proposal. It is now clear that America under your proposal will not defend its allies, the Southern border or anything else other than the Democratic led cities in the country. Happy yet? It appears not having any allies you can rely on is "problematic".
"If a company wanted to set up on an active volcano, we wouldn't waste tax dollars helping it."
Unfortunately, if it was profitable enough for the right people (the Bush clan, for example), then tax dollars would probably end up being wasted to ensure that some rich people can get even richer.
Unfortunately, if it was profitable enough for the right people (the Bush clan, for example), then tax dollars would probably end up being wasted to ensure that some rich people can get even richer.
1
Talk about biased. Your swipe at Christians and Jews undercut everything else you said.
Our enabling Iranian nuclear weapons is setting off a scramble for security and heightening tensions among Shia and Sunni in the area. Our recent foreign policy of appeasement of Iran has soured relationships with our allies in the region. Our influence is waning and the perception of the US as a strong and stable ally is withering as well.
1
Our "soured relationships" with our "allies in the region" reflects their behavior as much or more than ours.
We're trying to attain peace, and they are trying to aggrandize themselves, Saudi Sunnis and Israel and the rest are trying to expand by using our power for their ends.
We're trying to attain peace, and they are trying to aggrandize themselves, Saudi Sunnis and Israel and the rest are trying to expand by using our power for their ends.
6
Joe, your statement sounds more like a call for war as opposed to seeking peace. We cannot continue to muscle our way through the Middle East. If war was the answer to peace in the Middle East we would have had peace there fifty year ago. Look at the destruction (billions) and total number of lives lost (hundreds of thousands) in the past fifty years and then asked yourself: Does war really work?
3
I don't understand why an unwillingness to get involved in yet another Middle Eastern war costing trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives should be characterized as "appeasement." It is the previous administration's fiasco in Iraq which has emboldened the radical elements there, as they have seen that not even the United States with its great wealth and military might can afford to stay in the region forever playing the role of beat cop. It is in our interest that the Saudis, who themselves have substantial resources, take a more active role in protecting their own interests rather than relying on the U.S. taxpayer to do it for them.
4
Without oil the Saudi culture would be one of the most illogical, provincial cultures in the world. The basic integrity foundation of the regime spawned the uncivilized thoughts of bin Laden. Why do we worry about them?
48
In 1945 a marriage of convenience was arranged between the United States, then a champion of democracy in the world, and Ibn Saud’s regime, one of the most backward regimes in the world. The relationship was based on the supply of cheap oil in return for US protection of Al Saud clan. In the process, US became addicted to Saudi oil and corrupted by it, while Saudi Arabia used its billions of petrodollars to spread its strict Wahhabi version of Islam that eventually gave rise to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, Boko Haram, Al Nusra Front and ISIL.
The world has changed since then. America is not as reliant on Saudi oil as before and in post-Arab Awakening world Arab masses are demanding change. The late king tried to stop democracy and secularism by supporting despots and funding terrorist groups to topple Iraqi, Libyan and Syrian governments. Salman has gone one step further and has directly invaded Yemen and killed and wounded thousands.
Apart from oil, there is nothing that binds US and Saudi Arabia together. The coming mini summit, is a good opportunity for President Obama to start a new relationship with Persian Gulf regimes, one based on less support for religious terrorism, some political reform at home and accommodation with neighbors. These regimes are on the wrong side of history and should reform or die. As a good friend, US should tell them the truth rather than just sell them more weapons.
The world has changed since then. America is not as reliant on Saudi oil as before and in post-Arab Awakening world Arab masses are demanding change. The late king tried to stop democracy and secularism by supporting despots and funding terrorist groups to topple Iraqi, Libyan and Syrian governments. Salman has gone one step further and has directly invaded Yemen and killed and wounded thousands.
Apart from oil, there is nothing that binds US and Saudi Arabia together. The coming mini summit, is a good opportunity for President Obama to start a new relationship with Persian Gulf regimes, one based on less support for religious terrorism, some political reform at home and accommodation with neighbors. These regimes are on the wrong side of history and should reform or die. As a good friend, US should tell them the truth rather than just sell them more weapons.
152
Not a Q of US reliance on Saudi oil, correct. Is a big Q of US reliance on Saudi denominating all its oil/gas contracts in US$ & investing those $ in US govt issued paper. That's the deal struck for US supporting the Saud family as absolute monarchs. Saddam signed his death warrant when he suggested denominating Iraqi oil contracts in a basket of currencies or euros.
"The relationship was based on the supply of cheap oil in return for US protection"
The deal actually was to support the price of oil in order to protect the US industry from what was then seen as oversupply of oil with near-zero costs of production.
It was to control the supply of oil, but not as "cheap oil." Therein lies the real explanation for much of what followed and is today. In fact, the Saudi power play today is to drop the price of oil by "overproduction." That has always been their real power, not restriction of supply or cheapness.
The deal actually was to support the price of oil in order to protect the US industry from what was then seen as oversupply of oil with near-zero costs of production.
It was to control the supply of oil, but not as "cheap oil." Therein lies the real explanation for much of what followed and is today. In fact, the Saudi power play today is to drop the price of oil by "overproduction." That has always been their real power, not restriction of supply or cheapness.
2
Good points Frank 95. However, I don’t think you’ve got the take on weapons sales quite right. You imply the U.S. sells the Saudis weapons out of friendship. Arms sales to the Saudis and other Gulf tyrannies are enormous. For instance Obama made a $60 billion arms deal with the Kingdom of Horrors a couple of years ago. The U.S. corporate world is dependent on those sales. An article in the NYT by Thom Shanker in 2012 said the U.S. sales in the prior year was “three-quarters of the global arms market”. Obama isn’t about to start any new relationship with the Saudis since the old relationship is so necessary to feed our weapons sales addiction. Take a look at some of the articles here: http://www.thestruggle.org/archive_Saudi.htm
and listen again to Bob Dylan’s “Masters of War”.
and listen again to Bob Dylan’s “Masters of War”.
Destabilize the region? What is it now?
26
Saudi Arabia is a sparsely populated super rich oil producing country. Without security protection from the US military, the House of Saud has little chance to survive in a hostile neighborhood. Saudi Arabia and Israel cannot single handedly keep America's foreign policy status quo in the Middle East.
27
I truly wish that U.S. foreign policy will simply leave these people and their neighbors to themselves. They all deserve each other, and we need the money and attention back home.
83
Without being propped up the the US, Saudi Arabia would be taken over by ISIS in a moment. I would hold a hard line with this terrorist state, and change our policy dramatically to the lesser involvement. This is a petro-dollar state that is 200 years behind the world society. Time to let them go back to the desert they came from.
43
Who do you think is funding ISIS?
3
obviously you do not know relationship between US and Saudi.
One of the consequences of the House of Representatives undermining the President is people like Salman are emboldened because they see the US as a divided house. If Obama has the courage, perhaps he'd like to show Salman who's the boss.
70
Obama is doing a terrific job of undermining himself on the world stage without any help from those who think of him as feckless.
1
The best solution is to allow Iran to procure nuclear capabilities, and then let them use those capabilities against the Saudis.
Happy ending for everyone.
Happy ending for everyone.
1
Salman's cementing his under qualified child into a rigid political progression is rather "North Korean" of him.
62
Victor, is it your position that anyone that disagrees with our Dear One Obama must be aligned with N. Korea. Obama is failing all by himself.
Since WWII gutted the remaining pretensions of the UK and France to being world powers, it fell to the U.S. to preserve the wirld's economic stability as best it could. The nasty secret is that our entanglement in oil and shipping issues in the Middle East is more for the benefit of the West and Japan than for the U.S. specifically. With Arab countries in various states of disarray and with Iran's attempts, directly and through proxies, to advance its imperialist agenda, the U.S. has few palatable policy options. That President Obama has never proclaimed any clear public vision adds to the guessing game of what he thinks his outreach to Iran will accomplish, and to the unnerving of our erstwhile Arab allies. The EU, with no deployable military assets to speak of, will value its trade opportunities over maintaining any embargo against Iran, secure in the knowledge that when their interests are inevitably imperiled, the U.S. will act on their behalf in exchange for minimal, if any, actual military support - as we have already seen.
The U.S. now finds itself, quite ironically, in a position akin to Israel's: the rest of the world will look to it to do its dirty business, while trying to keep its own hands clean. For Israel, it has been, among other things, the destruction of Iraq and Syria's nuclear capability and a slowing down of Iran's rush for an atomic bomb. For the U.S., we'll have to see what the future holds.
The U.S. now finds itself, quite ironically, in a position akin to Israel's: the rest of the world will look to it to do its dirty business, while trying to keep its own hands clean. For Israel, it has been, among other things, the destruction of Iraq and Syria's nuclear capability and a slowing down of Iran's rush for an atomic bomb. For the U.S., we'll have to see what the future holds.
4
"Since WWII gutted the remaining pretensions of the UK and France"
They were not pretensions, at least not until WW2 destroyed them.
The difference is important for the US today. It proves that such power CAN be destroyed. It demonstrates that over extension and exhaustion is the method of such destruction. The US is on that path now, from at least the war adventures of the Lesser Bush.
They were not pretensions, at least not until WW2 destroyed them.
The difference is important for the US today. It proves that such power CAN be destroyed. It demonstrates that over extension and exhaustion is the method of such destruction. The US is on that path now, from at least the war adventures of the Lesser Bush.
3
It is true that cowardly Europe expects the US to do its 'dirty business', while they pretend their hands are clean to appeal to their naïve citizens, who think that all cultures are 'equal', even failed cultures.
Their own misguided immigration policies are showing them how very wrong they are in this, while here in the US we enjoy endless moments of schadenfreude.
Their own misguided immigration policies are showing them how very wrong they are in this, while here in the US we enjoy endless moments of schadenfreude.
Ah, yes - "the white man's burden".
1
So he moves the region from the 12th century to the 15th century---big deal.
35
The President is a model for much of the rest of the world. So, when he snubs a country's leader he is setting an example which countries are now emulating. What goes around, comes around.
3
Good to know that you support the Saudi King, and are against the President of the United States. Always nice to have such allies...
4
The Saudis are backers of extremist Wahhabist Islam. They sponsored Al Quaida and funded the 9/11 hijackers. They are not an ally. We should normalize relations with Iran and checkmate this reactionary regime.
279
Unlike the Iranians, the Saudis have never marshaled thousands in the streets, chanting, "Death to America!" Good luck making that normal for the US.
1
saudis may be whatever but funded hijackers its th most ridiculous statement I have read in a long time and you actually receive 55 recommended hits at the time I'm writing this..so many smart americans yeah
We have done just that. Now, lets live with our "friends" in Iran and their bombs. I for one am opposed to anyone who terms the US the "great Satan" having the bomb but we each have different taste. But remember Sandy, free speech which you use a lot of is banned in Iran.
Whenever I hear of Islamic terrorists and you turn over that dark rock, I see Sunnis and Saudi Arabia, so good riddance King Salman. May your likes never darken our shores.
143
Islamic terrorist and just as bad as right wing hypocrite Sunday Christians or conservative orthodox Jews.
This is a regime that not only harbors, but supports terrorism. I for one, would not lose any sleep if this contentious, untenable and misbegotten international relationship begins to fray.
We don't have any immediate invested interest in this regions conflict currently, and so far as I see it, we are only protecting potential future interests. I say let them "have it out" as the Christians did thousands of years ago rather than try to wedge ourselves in and provide a common enemy for those aligned against the Western world to rally against.
We don't have any immediate invested interest in this regions conflict currently, and so far as I see it, we are only protecting potential future interests. I say let them "have it out" as the Christians did thousands of years ago rather than try to wedge ourselves in and provide a common enemy for those aligned against the Western world to rally against.
136
i guess you don't mind paying 7 to $10 dollars per gallon then..we don't have immediate interest are you nuts you think we protected Saudi from saddam for fun
Kakorako, you might count the trillions we've spent in the region so far as part of that price of oil you're worried about paying.
1
"In increasing the kingdom’s regional role, King Salman risks escalating the conflict with Iran, fueling further instability." Which presupposes that it is not Iran's actions promoting instability in the first place. Yeah, the Saudis should not be concerned that Iran is swallowing Iraq and their proxies control Yemen, while continuing their support for Assad in Syria and controlling Lebanon through Hezbollah, all the while acquiring nuclear weapons capability, all with the blessings of the US.
The Saudi's assertiveness is raising tensions? Are they the ones converting Iraq and Yemen into their satellite? Are they the ones fermenting unrest in the Shia populations of the Gulf states? Are they developing nuclear weapons?
The reason the Saudis are more assertive is that they no longer believe they can rely upon the United States, that this administration is quite consciously throwing them under the bus in an effort to appease Iran and/or induce it into alliance with us, to become the region's enforcer. Whatever they feel compelled to do is because we have not only abdicated our role in a key alliance of 70 years, one crucial to our winning the Cold War, but apparently have chosen to exalt the Saudis' main enemy at their expense. What would we expect them to do? Play the part of Benes of Czechoslovakia in 1938 while we pull a Munich on them?
The Saudi's assertiveness is raising tensions? Are they the ones converting Iraq and Yemen into their satellite? Are they the ones fermenting unrest in the Shia populations of the Gulf states? Are they developing nuclear weapons?
The reason the Saudis are more assertive is that they no longer believe they can rely upon the United States, that this administration is quite consciously throwing them under the bus in an effort to appease Iran and/or induce it into alliance with us, to become the region's enforcer. Whatever they feel compelled to do is because we have not only abdicated our role in a key alliance of 70 years, one crucial to our winning the Cold War, but apparently have chosen to exalt the Saudis' main enemy at their expense. What would we expect them to do? Play the part of Benes of Czechoslovakia in 1938 while we pull a Munich on them?
5
Oil is no longer King and the Saudis must get over it. Obama is the fist American President that doesn't shine the petrol Barons shoes. The Saudis own the presidents Bush and the UAE owned Bill Clinton. Obama is oil free and is not trapped in the past with America's foreign policy like the Republicans and that is why he has opened new understandings with Iran and Cuba and rightfully so. The Saudis attitude is bad medicine and we need to move past them with horrid treatment of their women and young people. They are so stuck in the past and can't evolve so like the Republicans. The Saudis need to realize they are not the only Oyster in the sew.
1
The threat to America and our dead civilians and soldiers have come largely at the hands of the Saudi proxies: Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS. America did not walk away from its Saudi ally, the Saudis spawned and financed the Sunni extremists who have warred with America. How can we support them, when they continue to fund our enemies and to fund the radical madrassas, which spawn new terrorists? Iran did and does support Sadr, whose militia targeted American soldiers in Iraq, but that pales in comparison to the damage done to us by the Saudis. No coincidence that almost all of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis or that the 9/11 Commission's chapter on Saudi involvement has never been released. Our government continues to be far more protective of the Saudi monarchy than they deserve.
3
'...What would we expect them to do?...'
Join the 21st century, or even the 19th century, and fix their own problems, which they can well afford to.
Join the 21st century, or even the 19th century, and fix their own problems, which they can well afford to.
3
Our alliance with Saudi Arabia is one of our bigger foreign policy blunders. The policy goes back generations and is one inherited by the Obama administration. This is the opportunity to rethink it.
Saudi Arabia is a slave society that exports terrorist philosophy. There is little prospect that it will evolve towards tolerance. Iran, on the other hand, with a strong educated middle class and a largely young population, will inevitably evolve towards a more open and tolerant society; we can hasten that evolution by making the right choices now.
Saudi Arabia is a slave society that exports terrorist philosophy. There is little prospect that it will evolve towards tolerance. Iran, on the other hand, with a strong educated middle class and a largely young population, will inevitably evolve towards a more open and tolerant society; we can hasten that evolution by making the right choices now.
386
I'll bet Cheney and the Neocons won't agree with you one bit…
9
It's about the oil- notice that US involvement is directly proportional to petro production- except for Israel, which is a whole other can of worms.
6
Much more a natural ally to the US (thousand years of national identity, functioning political class, literacy) than a loose tribal assemblage of slave-trading tent dwellers who happened to be sitting on a lake of oil.
Our biggest foreign-policy blunder of the last century was the overthrow of Mossadegh.
Our biggest foreign-policy blunder of the last century was the overthrow of Mossadegh.
50
He has woken up to smell the coffee, the danger to Saud of mr Obama's encouragement of militancy among Musoims
they have given up on US, all of them, and good riddance to US for the peace of the locals
US destabilizes every country it touches, our policies are nihilism and apocalypse, for allies
Only NYT does not see that
Good On Them
they have given up on US, all of them, and good riddance to US for the peace of the locals
US destabilizes every country it touches, our policies are nihilism and apocalypse, for allies
Only NYT does not see that
Good On Them
4
I suppose without the USA that region would be the land of peace and prosperity for all. The USA is like a lion tamer with underfed cats.
9
So come his next birthday, we'll have another octogenarian Saudi king in charge who lavishes money on religious fanatics abroad while cracking down on reforms at home. And this country is supposedly our ally? Great.
293
Indeed, with friends like the Saudi's, who needs enemies?
Saudi Arabia is a medieval kingdom existing thanks to the oil. USA should have no worries that they would drift elsewhere or adapt a foreign policy harmful to the Western interests. Saudi Arabia and its ruling family needs USA and the West to survive. Saudi Arabia is a black hole. The West should not give out any concessions to this kingdom.
203
Agree with you Eirini. Sadly, we sell a lot of weapons to Saudi Arabia..they buy our war stuff. And one of the owners of the US is the war/weapons business
3
When taking a hard(er) line you run the risk of alienating and empowering the opposition. An outright encouragement and protection of the Sunni positions gives credit to the Shiite opposition thereto and will embed the destabilization of the area
3
'...and will embed the destabilization of the area...'
And things were going so well this past 1000 years!
And things were going so well this past 1000 years!
3
John Boehner is currently penning his invitation for King Salman to speak before Congress. And no domestic election to worry about this time around!
94
Just another example of why I believe we should take an isolationist stance towards the entire Mideast. We gain nothing by taking sides in any of the disputes there, and none of these nations are directly threatening are homeland. Moreover, we are no longer dependent on the region for domestic energy, though many multinational companies with large US work forces depend on profits from the region to sell the oil there to others. The US government sees almost nothing in return from propping up these companies in terms of tax revenue, so perhaps they would be best to hire mercenaries at their own expense to protect their interests, instead of relying on the lives of America's youth and the tax dollars of America's middle class. The days of OPEC being able to shut down America are long over.
167
Do you recommend that We take and isolationist stand re Israel?
Yes, until they destroy all the West Bank settlements and form a Palestinian State armed by UN peacekeepers. I've had it with Netanyahu. Israel is not the country it used to be, even though I admire its pro-LGBT stance. It is an occupier stance.
3
Also, there is really something wrong when my government wants to cut the disability benefits of severely disabled people by 20%, including 1 million veterans and 3 million children, but there is somehow enough money to give in to Israel's ever increasing monetary demands. We are now giving them almost $4 billion a year, at the expense of our own citizens. Israel is NOT the 51st state
7
While change can be productive, stepping back into the social equivalent of the dark ages is troubling. I doubt if many hear in the US realize the transformation the country has gone through in the last 40 years (based on my experience, longer if you look back to WWII).
One word in this article worries me more than any other: impulsive. Given the situation in the region, this could lead to an event that makes the current chaos look peaceful.
One word in this article worries me more than any other: impulsive. Given the situation in the region, this could lead to an event that makes the current chaos look peaceful.
30
Make that "...here in the US...".
1
D'oh! here it is...