Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, all men and women can choose their gender, irrespective of how they think or how they perceive themselves.
After a full hysterectomy, a woman could decide to take testosterone to increase her muscle bulk, acquire facial hair, and deepen her voice. She doesn't need to think like a man; she can continue to perceive herself as a woman. Her physical appearance, dressed in male clothes, would be that of a man. Were she to enter a male bathroom, a woman would be stepping inside an area designated for males.
Similarly, a man apparently doesn't need ovaries to determine his identity as a female. If he dresses in female clothes and takes estrogen to feminise his appearance, he can enter a female bathroom even if he still considers himself to be a man.
We can testify to people's identity by physical examination, but not by the way they think. People lie, especially if, by lying, they get what they want.
After a full hysterectomy, a woman could decide to take testosterone to increase her muscle bulk, acquire facial hair, and deepen her voice. She doesn't need to think like a man; she can continue to perceive herself as a woman. Her physical appearance, dressed in male clothes, would be that of a man. Were she to enter a male bathroom, a woman would be stepping inside an area designated for males.
Similarly, a man apparently doesn't need ovaries to determine his identity as a female. If he dresses in female clothes and takes estrogen to feminise his appearance, he can enter a female bathroom even if he still considers himself to be a man.
We can testify to people's identity by physical examination, but not by the way they think. People lie, especially if, by lying, they get what they want.
Individuals identifying as trans is not what is being objected to and pretending that it is betrays an unwillingness to engage in honest open conversation. If the central themes of this community are that they are compelled to confront others with their sexual identity or lack of it and then cry discrimination and move to invalidate those people's personal experience then something's wrong with this picture. Trans people playing traffic cop enforcing a one way street rule on the dialogue is beyond ridicules.
I think that most of us reading here do so because we have questions. And those questions include ones coming from an involuntary negative response are all colored, indeed attacked as some sort of ism. While those casting themselves as defenders very ready to indict which seems emblematic here.
If the Times is to continue would it not make sense to allow an open discussion including thinking that goes beyond "I was just born this way"? And also make clear that there are differing points of view from around the compass as opposed to feeding this straight not straight lens that journalist are so fond of. Casting thought camps as monolithic seriously restrains intelligent discourse. So lets dig deeper and try to create understanding beyond the themes so thoroughly exhausted in the last few days. As JKH said " Equality is for everyone, not just the people you think deserve it". Or maybe this should be moved to or also be addressed in The Stone or The Couch.
I think that most of us reading here do so because we have questions. And those questions include ones coming from an involuntary negative response are all colored, indeed attacked as some sort of ism. While those casting themselves as defenders very ready to indict which seems emblematic here.
If the Times is to continue would it not make sense to allow an open discussion including thinking that goes beyond "I was just born this way"? And also make clear that there are differing points of view from around the compass as opposed to feeding this straight not straight lens that journalist are so fond of. Casting thought camps as monolithic seriously restrains intelligent discourse. So lets dig deeper and try to create understanding beyond the themes so thoroughly exhausted in the last few days. As JKH said " Equality is for everyone, not just the people you think deserve it". Or maybe this should be moved to or also be addressed in The Stone or The Couch.
3
"compelled to confront others with their sexual identity or lack of it"
Being transgender has nothing to do with sexual identity, but everything to do with GENDER identity. They're not the same. Sexual identity is how you intimately relate to someone else, no matter what their gender is. Gender identity is how you intimately relate to yourself.
"allow an open discussion including thinking that goes beyond 'I was just born this way' "
If you'd like to have that discussion, many transgender people would love to sit down and do just that. However, you should first acquaint yourself with all the serious research conducted over the past decade or two about the roots, causes, impact, etc. of being transgender so we're not rehashing old news or even old wives' tales, but actually discussing facts and realities. There's an awful lot of information on the topic out there and most transgender folks have a fair amount of familiarity with it and have done some serious thinking about it already.
Being transgender has nothing to do with sexual identity, but everything to do with GENDER identity. They're not the same. Sexual identity is how you intimately relate to someone else, no matter what their gender is. Gender identity is how you intimately relate to yourself.
"allow an open discussion including thinking that goes beyond 'I was just born this way' "
If you'd like to have that discussion, many transgender people would love to sit down and do just that. However, you should first acquaint yourself with all the serious research conducted over the past decade or two about the roots, causes, impact, etc. of being transgender so we're not rehashing old news or even old wives' tales, but actually discussing facts and realities. There's an awful lot of information on the topic out there and most transgender folks have a fair amount of familiarity with it and have done some serious thinking about it already.
5
So what exactly is "gender" identity? Gender is not a physical reality. The only reality we have is sex, which is biological, from which gender is ascribed to us. I did not choose to be born with female chromosomes or called a girl. I was forced into femininity, not to my own choosing, or because of my "identity." I do not identify with womanhood, I was molded into a woman by society by my experiences from the day I was born and called a girl. Being a woman is not a identity, it is a lived experience. Men that do not conform to patriarchal standards of "gender" are doing just that - they are non-conforming. I fail to see how wanting to partake in traditionally feminine activities or dressing a certain way makes you a woman. There is no such thing as a a "woman's brain" or a "woman's spirit/soul." If you can explain to me what it feels to be a woman without going into gender roles or stereotypes, I will gladly reconsider my beliefs. Does it mean constant fear of being assaulted and raped while walking on the streets alone? Does it mean having to face female genital mutilation? Does it mean being trafficked for sex? Gender dysphoria is a very real thing but trans people that feel out of place because they don't want to adhere to society's standards are not a different gender, they just don't fit into society's mold as well as others attempt to. This does not mean I think these individuals should be harassed or discriminated against in any way.
Maybe the Times will hear this. So far we have not read much that is informational beyond the surface story. And I have tried to research but have not come up with anything close to the abundance of serious research or even discussion you mention.
"All she knew with certainty was that going through life as a man had become unbearable".
The main factor that she cited was not that she was a woman and as such she had to live like one, the factor was that life as a man was unbearable. And this was because she suffered from gender dysphoria. Dysphoria is a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction.
So the actual condition of gender dysphoria (and it is a condition classified as a medical disorder by the DSM-5) is not that the person is of another gender, but that they suffer a profound unease and dissatisfaction with their biological gender. Thus going on living "life as a man had become unbearable".
Therefore the fact that a person suffers from gender dysphoria does not in any way make that person of a gender other than their biological one, acting the role of being a female (for example) is simply a way to alleviate their misery due to their condition.
So the fact that the condition of gender dysphoria exists is not at all a basis upon which to conclude that gender does not refer to being male or female, but to being man or women, which has nothing to do with the technical biology that makes people males or females.
That simply because a person is miserable being a man and to solve his problem he decides to pass as a woman society is legally obligated to treat that person as a woman, despite the fact that his decision was for nothing more than to make life bearable due to a mental disorder.
The main factor that she cited was not that she was a woman and as such she had to live like one, the factor was that life as a man was unbearable. And this was because she suffered from gender dysphoria. Dysphoria is a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction.
So the actual condition of gender dysphoria (and it is a condition classified as a medical disorder by the DSM-5) is not that the person is of another gender, but that they suffer a profound unease and dissatisfaction with their biological gender. Thus going on living "life as a man had become unbearable".
Therefore the fact that a person suffers from gender dysphoria does not in any way make that person of a gender other than their biological one, acting the role of being a female (for example) is simply a way to alleviate their misery due to their condition.
So the fact that the condition of gender dysphoria exists is not at all a basis upon which to conclude that gender does not refer to being male or female, but to being man or women, which has nothing to do with the technical biology that makes people males or females.
That simply because a person is miserable being a man and to solve his problem he decides to pass as a woman society is legally obligated to treat that person as a woman, despite the fact that his decision was for nothing more than to make life bearable due to a mental disorder.
6
Michael Stavsen's interpretation of 'gender dysphoria' and the CIA officer is inventive but factually wrong. Gender Dysphoria as a diagnosis has been around at least since 1973, and it does not mean mere unhappiness with the sexual aspects of the physical self. It was coined as a broad euphemism for transsexualism, which in turn was understood to be a rare condition in which the inborn gender identity was opposite the birth anatomy.
Here we see the pitfalls of 'euphemizing' and not directly naming the problem. The CIA person tries to describe her predicament with gentle, evasive words in order to spare other people's feelings. But the commenter above takes that evasive description and twists it into a literal interpretation that was never intended.
Here we see the pitfalls of 'euphemizing' and not directly naming the problem. The CIA person tries to describe her predicament with gentle, evasive words in order to spare other people's feelings. But the commenter above takes that evasive description and twists it into a literal interpretation that was never intended.
3
The story here is that in the case of Jenny there was no story. But all of her angst about making this transition clearly shows why LGBT folks can often be easily blackmailed and can pose a real risk when employed in sensitive positions. A quick study of the Philby debacle is instructive here.
1
There is a striking disproportion between the gender dysphoria of employees at the CIA and the historical barbarism of the organization that they have chosen to work for. They can change their gender? Great. How about changing where they work? In what passes for the left now, sexual and gender politics would seem to trump everything else.
5
It’s gratifying to see here in post-literate America, so many educated people take time away from the collection of sports statistics or watching Oprah to exercise their, god-given, wholly American right to post comments based on little to no valid information, or what might be a fourth grader’s understanding of what it is to be human. I’ve encountered fourth graders who actually are much more comfortable with difference. They’ve not been fully indoctrinated into our culture of violence, racism, misogyny, transphobia, etc. I’m sure there’s still time.
While I might not be completely happy with the format, or for that matter a surveillance state that has surpassed the Stasi, that’s not the purpose of these opinion pieces. As a contributing segment of society I’ve/we’ve been around, as in my ancestral homeland, long before the sword of Constantine as well as here in the Americas before the genocides.
While what remains of our wealth, and more important, our children and their future are sacrificed on the altar of empire, I guess it’s more important to focus on ostracizing those at the margins for their difference and praying for some kind of divine intervention than to actually focus on the real issues. It’s a disturbing look into the psyche of what has become the American center/center-left. People who would otherwise consider themselves loving, caring and democratic participants in the Human experience. …With love.
While I might not be completely happy with the format, or for that matter a surveillance state that has surpassed the Stasi, that’s not the purpose of these opinion pieces. As a contributing segment of society I’ve/we’ve been around, as in my ancestral homeland, long before the sword of Constantine as well as here in the Americas before the genocides.
While what remains of our wealth, and more important, our children and their future are sacrificed on the altar of empire, I guess it’s more important to focus on ostracizing those at the margins for their difference and praying for some kind of divine intervention than to actually focus on the real issues. It’s a disturbing look into the psyche of what has become the American center/center-left. People who would otherwise consider themselves loving, caring and democratic participants in the Human experience. …With love.
1
Clearly, it is more important to the writers of this editorial that the CIA be politically correct than that it protects U.S. citizens. In the same way, it is more important that the armed forces be politically correct than that it wins wars.
Of course, it does not seem to matter that the first victims of our opponents would be the very transgender people who are the subject of this article. Appearance is everything. The end result is not important so long as the process is pure.
Of course, it does not seem to matter that the first victims of our opponents would be the very transgender people who are the subject of this article. Appearance is everything. The end result is not important so long as the process is pure.
4
"Transgenders in the C.I.A"
LIVE AND LET LIVE **
LIVE AND LET LIVE **
2
Finally! But there is more work to be done beyond the hallowed halls of the federal government.
1
It's nice that people of any sexual or gender orientation can take part in violating human rights, propping up tyrants, wrecking every country they touch, and generally undermining the interest of actual Americans on behalf of the corporate militarists the CIA serves. Bravo.
11
I personally don't care for the foufous that give a bad rap to transgender but other than that I sympathize with them and feel that they have to be protected and respected. At FEDEX one day though they had a transgender aggressively dressed and looking for trouble and I was exasperated. Chloe Sevigny was exceptional in Hit and Miss.
1
Clearly it's time for a blockbuster spy movie about transgender CIA agents. Bruce Jenner heads a team of transgender CIA operatives who infiltrate North Korea and discover that Kim Jong-Un is a transgendered female (actually I think he/she/them is just that.)
7
There's no reason to discriminate against transgenders, gays, lesbians, whatever, if our society just accepts all for who they are. Ergo: no 'risk of blackmail'.
3
It's going to be difficult for the KGB/FSB and China's MSS to figure out what sort of honey traps to deploy in these new-fangled times.
6
The nurse who commented "why would you want to be a man?" obviously needs some serious training on how to respond to a transgender person.
13
Or it could be that "Jenny" simply looked passable enough as a woman that the nurse was fooled into thinking she was a genetic female...which Jenny would probably take as a compliment.
8
Alternatively the nurse knew exactly what was up...and was cheering the direction that Jenny's life had taken.
A most crucial element that would be extremely helpful to understanding this issue is glaringly lacking, and that is the science of whether feeling one is a women is a matter of gender or something that is purely a mental phenomenon.
Do women feel like women for the same reason that transgenders do, that its simply a feeling inherent in them. That the fact that being a women is based on having XX chromosomes, is a factor only in their physical bodies. However the feeling they are women and acting in ways typical of women and having the sorts of emotions unique to women has absolutely nothing to do with female biology, that that is something that males can posses just like females can.
The other option of course is that feeling and acting as a women is just as much based on female biology as the physical aspects of being a female. And so gender is based on and defined according to biology.
And if this is the case a person that feels they are a women is not actually of the female gender, that is they are not transgender. That this feeling is merely something in their heads and is no more than a mental phenomenon. And as such denying a person the ability to to experience in real life what they feel mentally is 1. not discrimination and 2 not a right.
Of course it is possible that gender is purely mental. However this is why without a clear scientific consensus on the issue the matter of what it is to feel of a different gender is open for debate and certainly not settled.
Do women feel like women for the same reason that transgenders do, that its simply a feeling inherent in them. That the fact that being a women is based on having XX chromosomes, is a factor only in their physical bodies. However the feeling they are women and acting in ways typical of women and having the sorts of emotions unique to women has absolutely nothing to do with female biology, that that is something that males can posses just like females can.
The other option of course is that feeling and acting as a women is just as much based on female biology as the physical aspects of being a female. And so gender is based on and defined according to biology.
And if this is the case a person that feels they are a women is not actually of the female gender, that is they are not transgender. That this feeling is merely something in their heads and is no more than a mental phenomenon. And as such denying a person the ability to to experience in real life what they feel mentally is 1. not discrimination and 2 not a right.
Of course it is possible that gender is purely mental. However this is why without a clear scientific consensus on the issue the matter of what it is to feel of a different gender is open for debate and certainly not settled.
8
Being a woman is dependent on having two XX chromosomes? It is always nice to pull out sciencific knowledge, that is if you have full insight into the issue and can make a more definitive statement. For example does someone with Turner Syndrome (X) or Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (XY) not a woman? Or rather, is someone with Kleinfelter Syndrome (XXY) a woman? Also, if it is "no more than a mental phenomenon", who cares? In fact, you are arguing that there is neurological basis behind being transgender; there clearly is, since thinking you are a woman is truly 'in your head' as your brain is the source of cognition. This is a subject that science can provide insight and better treatment for people afflicted with these conditions. That being said, this issue is not one that a scientific consensus could make a moral judgement on; you would be too easy to fall into the naturalistic fallacy trap.
1
Transgender people think that the mind is more important than the body, without having experienced what it's like to have a body of the opposite sex. Men born without ovaries cannot understand the connection between levels of estrogen/progesterone and the mind throughout the monthly cycle. A female cannot separate the mind from the body; they are too interconnected. A man who thinks he is a woman, doesn't know how a woman feels. He may feel that he thinks differently to other men, but that doesn't make him a woman.
That's not how it works, but yours is a common misconception. The physical-sex mismatch with the brain comes out in a myriad of indications, some of them rather indirect. For example, a young person who avoids swimming, athletics, and locker rooms when living as the 'wrong' sex, may well find that he no longer has revulsion against those things when he finally is living in the appropriately gendered body. Personal relations are usually eased with members of both sexes, because one is no longer playing an artificial role, or constantly worrying that other people are perceiving the brain/sex mismatch.
The C.I.A.'s stance here is not only progressive, but smart business. To deny transgender persons the opportunity to be active members of this team is to deny the agency the perspective of a growing portion of society. That perspective may provide critical insights on immensely important issues.
It's not often that I feel compelled to praise the C.I.A., but I tip my hat to them here. Many of the rest of us are puzzling through transgender issues, but the C.I.A. seems to have gotten this one right.
It's not often that I feel compelled to praise the C.I.A., but I tip my hat to them here. Many of the rest of us are puzzling through transgender issues, but the C.I.A. seems to have gotten this one right.
14
It seems many readers complaining about too much coverage for trans issues in the media haven't noticed that this is an OPINION piece. This is not the hot news item for today.
That point aside, I would like to ask them all why the equal treatment of all human beings shouldn't be an important piece of news?
Even if its an infinitesimal percentage of the population, 99.999999% is still lesser than 100%.
That point aside, I would like to ask them all why the equal treatment of all human beings shouldn't be an important piece of news?
Even if its an infinitesimal percentage of the population, 99.999999% is still lesser than 100%.
7
So much hostility in these comments! Years ago (decades ago) I probably thought people who were transgender were freaks or somehow scary. But then you get to know people who have transitioned or are transitioning -- people you like and respect -- and it seems as normal as anything else. And it's not that unusual. The UC system has begin making sure there are gender-neutral (single-stall) bathrooms at all campuses, to make things more comfortable for transgender students and employees. I think this is great.
14
There seems an inordinate fascination with the challenges facing 0.3% of the US population, while major issues--the radicalization of the Republican party, our insanely huge prison population, gangs and drug trafficking, gerrymandering, Congressional corruption, the disappearance of the middle class, sustainable healthcare, our various wars--issues which affect 100% of the US population--are pushed to the side.
25
This constant haranguing that we all have to accept transgenders gets boring. Obviously such people have to find a job in non-sensitive assignments like being a mailman or a mail woman. Certainly not a CIA employee dealing with global security issues. Way back I wanted to be a pilot but was not approved because of being color blind. I accepted the set-back and focused on a more compatible profession. It seems transgenders not only have a physical/psychological problem but also lack perseverance and creativity.
10
How does being transgender really disqualify someone from a security clearance? It isn't that "obvious" to me. Would you argue that gay people "lack perseverance and creativity" when they don't pretend to be straight? Not everyone has to think like you do, and that is okay; but one must have full color awareness to fly a plane.
2
You've got to be kidding. Gender has nothing to do with the ability of these people to do their jobs.
6
If a transgender person is smart and there is no threat of blackmail because he's out, why shouldn't he be in the CIA? Or NASA? It isn't at all the same as being colorblind, which could certainly bar someone from being in a position of needing to see colors on a control panel.
Your comment evinces, understandably, some bitterness.
But imagine losing a Middle East expert, or someone fluent in Urdu, because he's gay or transgender. What a stupid waste that would be.
Your comment evinces, understandably, some bitterness.
But imagine losing a Middle East expert, or someone fluent in Urdu, because he's gay or transgender. What a stupid waste that would be.
10
The Transgendered are probably the most discriminated of LGBT society today. The late night hosts making fun of Bruce Jenner for instance. It is a shame that people are judged on their gender or gender preference in a free society of America. Some from various churches will say it is in the old testament bible that Homosexuality is wrong. It is also in the bible new testament where it says;
"I give you a new commandment above all others, to love one another as I have loved you.".
"I give you a new commandment above all others, to love one another as I have loved you.".
11
Fascinating: The evolving culture! Sure as the nation becomes even better grounded in reality, it will serve U.S. security well. Suspect Israel passed this threshold already, for whatever reasons. (Don't understand why it's in "Editorial Board".) Thanks for this.
I see across the top of the headline the words, "More parts coming." I suppose we are forewarned. While sensitive to the difficulties faced by people with gender dysphoria and foursquare behind equal rights, I feel the New York TImes' relentless flogging of this topic has become borderline silly and potentially counterproductive.
How silly? Headlines like 'Transgender at the CIA' invite parody. What's next? 'Transgender at the DMV?' How counterproductive? By incessantly drawing attention to transgenders the paper risks creating the idea that there is something marginal or even freakish about them. You appear to believe the rest of us need to be constantly educated. Maybe you just need to drop the instinct for agenda journalism.
How silly? Headlines like 'Transgender at the CIA' invite parody. What's next? 'Transgender at the DMV?' How counterproductive? By incessantly drawing attention to transgenders the paper risks creating the idea that there is something marginal or even freakish about them. You appear to believe the rest of us need to be constantly educated. Maybe you just need to drop the instinct for agenda journalism.
29
Don, a major shift is occurring in this country, and it's news. Transitioning at the CIA is a big deal, and so is transitioning at the DMV for the person involved. As a transgender woman, I do appreciate that you are sensitive that this reporting might call out trans people as being marginal or freakish. But based on conversations I've had with many people to whom I've disclosed my trans status, there's still a lot of education needed. (And a minor point: We're not "transgenders". Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Nor is it a verb, c.f. "transgendered". We're transgender people.)
4
Actually an article on "Transgender at the DMV" would be informative.
There are states/localities where a transgender woman is told in no uncertain terms that she must have her driver's license picture taken with her in masculine clothing and sans makeup. This is both embarrassing and insulting. Also, it means not having the go to photo ID presenting you as you will be seen by anyone checking it, like a police officer.
A couple years ago, for instance, I had to go to a UPS distribution center to pick up a shipment. I'd been in transition, living full time as me, a woman, for a year. Since my name hadn't been changed yet I decided to go presenting as male and I showed up with my old driver's license with my male name and male appearing photo. Didn't fly. They wouldn't let me take the package as I was told in no uncertain terms that the picture wasn't me (I believe the only difference was my longer hair and a much fuller face thanks to hormone replacement therapy.) I had to come back with two utility bills and my lease to prove the package belonged to me.
As for "too much" talk of transgender issues and stories about transgender people, well, I have to disagree with you. We face terrible discrimination and have a much heightened chance of being physically assaulted than the general population. Our suicide attempt rate is so much higher...
Visibility is what will make things better for us, especially for those who come after us. It's why I'm openly out.
There are states/localities where a transgender woman is told in no uncertain terms that she must have her driver's license picture taken with her in masculine clothing and sans makeup. This is both embarrassing and insulting. Also, it means not having the go to photo ID presenting you as you will be seen by anyone checking it, like a police officer.
A couple years ago, for instance, I had to go to a UPS distribution center to pick up a shipment. I'd been in transition, living full time as me, a woman, for a year. Since my name hadn't been changed yet I decided to go presenting as male and I showed up with my old driver's license with my male name and male appearing photo. Didn't fly. They wouldn't let me take the package as I was told in no uncertain terms that the picture wasn't me (I believe the only difference was my longer hair and a much fuller face thanks to hormone replacement therapy.) I had to come back with two utility bills and my lease to prove the package belonged to me.
As for "too much" talk of transgender issues and stories about transgender people, well, I have to disagree with you. We face terrible discrimination and have a much heightened chance of being physically assaulted than the general population. Our suicide attempt rate is so much higher...
Visibility is what will make things better for us, especially for those who come after us. It's why I'm openly out.
8
"Relentless flogging...." Really? As if the topic were clearly understood by all.
You are free to skip these articles if you think you have nothing more to learn about the topic. No one is forcing you to read them. For the rest...the NYT is doing a good job of shedding light on a topic that needs to be exposed.
You are free to skip these articles if you think you have nothing more to learn about the topic. No one is forcing you to read them. For the rest...the NYT is doing a good job of shedding light on a topic that needs to be exposed.
12
Some of the comments here are surprising, considering that generally speaking, the majority of commenters on the NYT website are progressive. There are a number of comments where people express concern that because the Times is currently focusing on transgender inequality, the suffering in other stigmatized or shunned minorities is being ignored.
It seems to me that the focus on this marginalized and long-suffering minority does not remotely preclude consideration for the struggles of other minorities, but simply that for this past week the Times has focused on the transgender community.
For those who suggest that being transgender is a choice, just ask yourself if you can ever imagine "choosing," on some kind of a whim, to take life-altering hormones and/or to endure immutable sexual reassignment surgery.
It seems to me that the focus on this marginalized and long-suffering minority does not remotely preclude consideration for the struggles of other minorities, but simply that for this past week the Times has focused on the transgender community.
For those who suggest that being transgender is a choice, just ask yourself if you can ever imagine "choosing," on some kind of a whim, to take life-altering hormones and/or to endure immutable sexual reassignment surgery.
33
Very well said. And your closing point provides a hint as to why 42% of transgender people attempt suicide.
6
Apparently, a law has just been passed that alows trans people to change their identity legally without SRS. If that is true, it will be interesting to see how the American folks integrate with the maginalised minority.
Another editorial on the transgender "issue." And how many CIA employees are transgender? 5? 10?
The amount of time and energy the New York Times spends on this non-issue is astounding. All we need to do is enforce existing laws regarding discrimination all throughout our society and the lot of many people--no matter who they are--would improve considerably.
This liberal fetish to seek out and address grievances for virtually any group that considers itself "victimized" is absurd.
What has resulted has been a culture of victimization and a booming legal industry instead of addressing systemic problems with a larger vision in mind.
Enough already with splitting America into innumerable splinter groups, factions and an exponentially expanding disintegration of commonalities that (should) bind us together.
The amount of time and energy the New York Times spends on this non-issue is astounding. All we need to do is enforce existing laws regarding discrimination all throughout our society and the lot of many people--no matter who they are--would improve considerably.
This liberal fetish to seek out and address grievances for virtually any group that considers itself "victimized" is absurd.
What has resulted has been a culture of victimization and a booming legal industry instead of addressing systemic problems with a larger vision in mind.
Enough already with splitting America into innumerable splinter groups, factions and an exponentially expanding disintegration of commonalities that (should) bind us together.
19
Gay / Transgender / Homosexual
The misconception is that All are One and the Same.
This is a very sensitive topic that will be almost impossible not to upset someone's feelings, but by not doing so, especially as an elder and an educator would be giving a misperception to my perspective on Sexuality.
Growing up I was told by my grandmother, who was told by her grandmother, "Words unspoken can never be misinterpreted," I have learned words unspoken can leave the wrong impression.
I live by the philosophy to each their own, but to me it is a sign of insecurity and disregard, when someone has to feel they must promote and publicly exhibit their sexuality. Especially, those Gay male individuals, who with their public antics disrespect the true beauty and essence of a woman. Why is it that the gay male is so much more fixated than the much more subtle gay female?
Gay / Transgender / Homosexual
http://hbcuconnect.com//content/277984/gay-transgender-homosexual
The misconception is that All are One and the Same.
This is a very sensitive topic that will be almost impossible not to upset someone's feelings, but by not doing so, especially as an elder and an educator would be giving a misperception to my perspective on Sexuality.
Growing up I was told by my grandmother, who was told by her grandmother, "Words unspoken can never be misinterpreted," I have learned words unspoken can leave the wrong impression.
I live by the philosophy to each their own, but to me it is a sign of insecurity and disregard, when someone has to feel they must promote and publicly exhibit their sexuality. Especially, those Gay male individuals, who with their public antics disrespect the true beauty and essence of a woman. Why is it that the gay male is so much more fixated than the much more subtle gay female?
Gay / Transgender / Homosexual
http://hbcuconnect.com//content/277984/gay-transgender-homosexual
3
Ivan, gender and sexuality are 2 completely different issues. Trans folks are at high risk of being targeted for violence and discrimination based on others' fear and misunderstanding. That's why a series on Trans in America is important and needed.
4
I know for a fact that the army department approved a transgender Senior Executive Service member at least 25 years ago --it was no big deal then
4
Lot of talk about transgender lately. I only met one and know of one other in my 64 years. Outside of New Orleans Bourbon Street where I used to bartend that is. And P Town where they come off as more cartoon characters then real people.
I wish them well.
I wish them well.
5
jsladder, I'm pretty much 100% certain that if I came to the bar where you used to work and ordered a drink, and sat and flirted with you for a few hours, you'd have no clue I was trans. I know this for a fact because, well, I like to go have a drink and flirt sometimes. If I choose to disclose that I'm trans, the man I've been chatting with are universally shocked. So I'll bet you have met more trans men and women than you realize. And if I'm a cartoon character, it's a sexy superhero, I'm certain of that!
9
So nice. The CIA has decided to join the 20th century.
6
Why this is even an issue with anyone is beyond me. I grew up in the late 60's and 70's and could never understand why people cared what color someones skin was. Now people are persecuted for their sexual preferences and what sex they think they are. How is this anyone else's business. People should focus more on their own lives and less on other peoples. If a guy is happier being a woman than so be it.
15
No one in his/her right mind would choose to be a woman in this society unless there was a gigantic payoff. The only such payoff I can think of would be sex. I believe the vast majority of these people are gay but don't want to be in gay relationships; they want to be in heterosexual relationships. There's only one solution to that dilemma. Why else would anyone choose less pay, the fear of rape, harassment, and artificial female hormones that can induce depression and sedation?
3
Anne, I appreciate the fact that you dispel the idea that anyone would choose to be trans. But there is absolutely no basis in fact or statistics that can justify your claim that "the vast majority of these people are gay but don't want to be in gay relationships." Where did you come up with that? Sexual orientation has nothing to do with gender identity. And it's quite a lot easier to be gay these days than trans.
8
Anne, because they want to live as who they are. Simple as that.
Often the choice comes down to transition to the gender you know you are in your heart and soul, or suicide. Too many choose the latter.
No one would ever choose to transition if they didn't have an overwhelming need to do so. The costs can be astronomical -- losing family and friends, losing a job, not being able to find work, becoming homeless and rampant discrimination.
I am with you on the big difference in life between living as a man or living as a woman. Woman, sadly, have lower stature, get paid less, aren't listened to and, yes, rape (there is a high rate of rape against transgender women) is something that one needs to fear.
Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. Sexuality is a completely different thing.
Often the choice comes down to transition to the gender you know you are in your heart and soul, or suicide. Too many choose the latter.
No one would ever choose to transition if they didn't have an overwhelming need to do so. The costs can be astronomical -- losing family and friends, losing a job, not being able to find work, becoming homeless and rampant discrimination.
I am with you on the big difference in life between living as a man or living as a woman. Woman, sadly, have lower stature, get paid less, aren't listened to and, yes, rape (there is a high rate of rape against transgender women) is something that one needs to fear.
Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. Sexuality is a completely different thing.
6
All societies have their own reactions to gender impairments, but impairments they are. Just because a mutation occurs naturally doesn't make it normal or worthwhile. Sexual variation is not a sign of 'diversity' but of of a biological failure.
The present movement to make queer the new normal is misguided and damaging it society.
The present movement to make queer the new normal is misguided and damaging it society.
10
This discussion is not about sexual variation. It's not about gender impairments (whatever those are). It's about gender identity.
We, as a country, may have progressed a little bit.
Let's not say, "Bravo/Brava", or pat ourselves on the back, yet.
J. Edgar Hoover was an "in the closet" (even to himself), gay man who coped in the very usual "reaction formation" way, by going on a witch-hunt for other, in his words, "perverts", convincing even Eisenhower (naive in this realm) to join the chase.
It "usta be" the claim/excuse/belief, that homosexuals/transgender people were subject to "blackmail" but if one is "out", that excuse does not hold.
So, let's celebrate these very courageous CIA operatives/analysts & rest assured that there will be less torture activities from the "Macho" (who may have their own "issues").
Let's not say, "Bravo/Brava", or pat ourselves on the back, yet.
J. Edgar Hoover was an "in the closet" (even to himself), gay man who coped in the very usual "reaction formation" way, by going on a witch-hunt for other, in his words, "perverts", convincing even Eisenhower (naive in this realm) to join the chase.
It "usta be" the claim/excuse/belief, that homosexuals/transgender people were subject to "blackmail" but if one is "out", that excuse does not hold.
So, let's celebrate these very courageous CIA operatives/analysts & rest assured that there will be less torture activities from the "Macho" (who may have their own "issues").
3
I am all for anti-discrimination laws. But the times has gotten obsessed with transgenders. Really its a bit much to talk about 0.2% of the population day after day on the front page.
33
When you minimize the problem, then it never gets solved. You are right, transgender individuals are 0.2% of the population, but when they are not allowed to be who they are and live without fear and retaliation, it is 100% of their life that is affected. Just because it doesn't impact you directly doesn't mean that the issue isn't of overriding importance for those it does impact.
13
Any time a society focuses on a tiny percentage of people and their rights it is a problem.
Unless anyone thinks the problems of the .03% of rich people should be front and center?
Oh wait....
Unless anyone thinks the problems of the .03% of rich people should be front and center?
Oh wait....
5
What about their 'obsession' with nail salon workers? Or Boston bombing victims? How many of those are there? Or 9/11 - that was ages ago!
Face it, the Times does a LOT of deep reporting on a LOT of different subjects that have some importance in society today. I mean, why do they keep looking at the drought in CA (where I live) - isn't it the NEW YORK Times? Maybe it's because these stories shine a light on many different corners of our society and our country and how things change.
I found it to be a fascinating story. I think the fact that the CIA has done this may also have a side effect of making a formerly vulnerable group of employees more blackmail-proof.
Face it, the Times does a LOT of deep reporting on a LOT of different subjects that have some importance in society today. I mean, why do they keep looking at the drought in CA (where I live) - isn't it the NEW YORK Times? Maybe it's because these stories shine a light on many different corners of our society and our country and how things change.
I found it to be a fascinating story. I think the fact that the CIA has done this may also have a side effect of making a formerly vulnerable group of employees more blackmail-proof.
10
Well how lovely! Would this be an inconvenient moment to remind us that a report was recently issued by the U.S. Senate detailing how the C.I.A. consistently pushed for, and engaged in, torture techniques to extract information from detainees? Techniques that in more than a few instances resulted in the deaths of those detainees? And are we now supposed to applaud the fact that people of all sexual persuasions are free to join in? Super! Please, though, don’t make any flimsy distinctions between “operations” and “intelligence” divisions. It’s the C.I.A. If you sign up, you are responsible for what they do.
23
Hardly mentioned in the discussion is that the transgender industry represents a growth opportunity for surgeons and psychiatrists, consistent with the myriad 'enhancements' already available...
Under no circumstances should we challenge the rights of free enterprise and the 'invisible hand' when no one else is harmed...
Under no circumstances should we challenge the rights of free enterprise and the 'invisible hand' when no one else is harmed...
10
These people don't go to psychiatrists, except for rubber-stamp evaluations for surgery. They see their problem as physical, not mental. Unfortunately though we will pay through higher insurance premiums for their surgeries, which are increasingly being described as medically necessary.
7
Hi Anne, as one of "these people" (we are here in the room with you, I must point out), I can assure you that we do indeed go to many years of therapist, psychologists, and psychiatrists, to get to the root of being trans, acceptance, and deciding where to go next. No mental health provider I've come in contact with, no ever heard of, issues "rubber stamp evaluations". Gender confirmation surgery runs about $20k. A lifetime of psychiatry, drugs, and recovery from suicide attempts will cost a lot more than that. There have been numerous cost analyses that confirm that coverage results in a net decrease in provider costs. I'm not sure why you feel qualified to make blanket statements, but you don't seem to be basing them in fact nor experience.
5
Please. As a childless person, should I resent all those darn women who feel it necessary to have children, given how $$ maternity care drives up insurance costs? And in any case, most F2M's I know just have surgery to have their breasts removed, which isn't really major surgery.
3
I don't understand why anyone who does not agree with gays about their life style are called "Homophobes". This word means a fear of mankind. I don't think you need any degrees in psychology or medicine to understand that these people are genuinely confused about something. I don't fear these kind of people or do I associate with known gays. Not out fear but we just plain don't travel in the same social circles. I would not teach young children that this life style is "Normal". I'm 65 years old and had a cousin who was gay most of his life. He and his partner came to our house for family things but he never invited straight members of our family to his gathering simply because he knew we would feel very uncomfortable around a group of men and women who were obviously different.
3
You've confused Greek and Latin roots: the Latin homo,hominis, a masculine third declension noun, does indeed human/humankind, but the Greek homo is a preposition and prefix meaning "the same". In the case of "homosexual" and its derivative "homophobia", its a reference to "same"-sex relationships.
12
I'm not sure how "homophobe" meaning "fear of mankind" would be relevant but in any event, it doesn't. "Homo" in Latin means "man"/"mankind" (e.g., homo sapiens). "Homo" in Greek (where the word "phobia/fear" also comes from) means "same" (e.g. homogeneity, homosexual).
7
you're right, but not right...
"homophobia" developed in spoken English because the root "phobia" was attached to the prefix of "homosexuals" - so 'fear/dislike of homosexuals in terms of the semiotics, if not the semantics - if you take my meaning.
By the way - great comment.
"homophobia" developed in spoken English because the root "phobia" was attached to the prefix of "homosexuals" - so 'fear/dislike of homosexuals in terms of the semiotics, if not the semantics - if you take my meaning.
By the way - great comment.
1
As the parent of a transgender child, who is also an awesome, creative and generative human being, so many of these comments are disturbing for the prejudice and ignorance they reveal. To me these attributes of prejudice and judgmental intolerance are truly the aberrations. So much fear and hatred is just "not normal." As for the importance of such stories, every comment reflecting prejudices of this kind speaks to exactly why we need such stories in the media.
41
My understanding of men and women in medical terms is that they are different not just in physical character and hormones and thought process but in bone density, different types of diseases, etc. Does all that change or are there still remnants of the physiology they were born with?
5
Male-to-female transgender people will still have a prostate gland, and need to think about possible prostate cancer. If they have surgery that reduces androgens, they will be at lower risk than the average man, but there still will be some risk.
I'd imagine that the estrogens they take might put them at higher risk of breast cancer, but that's just a guess on my part.
I'd imagine that the estrogens they take might put them at higher risk of breast cancer, but that's just a guess on my part.
2
Looking at the literature one can realize many variations occur. Hormones, chromosomes and much more create our sexual identity. Just a FEW of many possibilities babies are born with. Google - Hermaphroditism (being born both male + female).
............................
Our gender is determined, among other things, by our internal and external sex organs (Such as a penxs or vagxna on the outside, a uterus on the inside). In some people, this distinction doesn’t fully exist – they may have both female + male sex organs.
One of these pairs are the sex chromosomes. They are different between males + females. In males this pair is composed of an X chromosome and a Y chromosome. Females, on the other hand, have two X chromosomes.
When we develop in the uterus, our internal organs have the potential to become both male and female. Only at weeks 9-13 of pregnancy do we start developing into either males or females.
We usually develop into females by default unless we have the Y chromosome. This happens since there are certain genes on the Y chromosome which tell our body to develop testicles. Once testicles develop, they secrete a substance called testosterone (among other things), which helps us further develop into males, including a penis.
If we lack the Y chromosome, that gene is absent. In this case, instead of testicles, ovaries develop. Since there are no testicles to secrete testosterone, a female develops, including a uterus, fallopian tubes and vagina. More.
............................
Our gender is determined, among other things, by our internal and external sex organs (Such as a penxs or vagxna on the outside, a uterus on the inside). In some people, this distinction doesn’t fully exist – they may have both female + male sex organs.
One of these pairs are the sex chromosomes. They are different between males + females. In males this pair is composed of an X chromosome and a Y chromosome. Females, on the other hand, have two X chromosomes.
When we develop in the uterus, our internal organs have the potential to become both male and female. Only at weeks 9-13 of pregnancy do we start developing into either males or females.
We usually develop into females by default unless we have the Y chromosome. This happens since there are certain genes on the Y chromosome which tell our body to develop testicles. Once testicles develop, they secrete a substance called testosterone (among other things), which helps us further develop into males, including a penis.
If we lack the Y chromosome, that gene is absent. In this case, instead of testicles, ovaries develop. Since there are no testicles to secrete testosterone, a female develops, including a uterus, fallopian tubes and vagina. More.
An excellent description of how primary sex characteristics arise. Which has nothing to do with a person's gender identity. Sex is not gender.
2
Perhaps the NY Times should write an OP-ED piece on the much, much more pressing matter of how the CIA's analyses need to drastically improve in quality. This is an issue of far greater importance to the nation (and with considerably greater potential for impact).
13
The NYT has actually published several op-eds on this issue. Instead of wasting our time with irrelevant comments, why not just search the paper's archives yourself for the relevant pieces (you can search for free online)?
2
so you are saying the space used on this trasngender article could not have had more of an impact if it critiqued, instead, the poor performance of the CIA's analysts in, say, their analysis of Yemen? This does not sound like an "irrelevant" comment. The real one is the priority set of the NY Times (and people like yourself).
I don't understand the complaints about other people being transgender. If they are, they are - what business is it of mine or yours? Being a dope about it as an employer, either you don't have these people's skills, or, you hire them and they're subject to blackmail. Grow up and let other people live their lives as they see fit. It does you and I no harm and keeps everyone from wasting time and energy on a subject that someone's private business - just leave them be. Land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE? Live it. Rather than cowardly complain about someone's personal choices, why not monitor their job skills, driving record, and if they keep their rose bushes healthy? At least how they work, drive, and keep up the neighborhood has something to do with you... Liberty - and - justice for all.
22
As a former Agency employee, I'd like to thank the Times for this editorial. May I add that the comments on the piece underscore (reassuringly) how much more enlightened Agency people have become in comparison with the citizens they help defend.
26
I rest my case.
The shame is not in being transgendered.
The shame lies in working for the CIA.
The shame lies in working for the CIA.
17
If the relationship between a Glenn Greenwald, and his "partner" on the book tour for Paul adviser and Libertarian manifesto author, Bruce Fein, was examined - in relationship to Greenwald and Fein's mutual project - Ed Snowden and the NSA caper - it is hard to say if it would find acceptance, be the butt of jokes, or something more.
2
Wow, a lot of transphobia coming through on these comments.
I agree, the CIA has an abominable history, but they got it right on this one--and it IS important, seeing as it helps set the precedent for how trans* people are treated in other federal agencies. I read through the OPM guide the article referenced and was duly impressed with how on point the guidelines are. Would that they become standard across the employment spectrum and that the CIA use their evolution here as a model for evolution on other nefarious practices to which they still cling.
I agree, the CIA has an abominable history, but they got it right on this one--and it IS important, seeing as it helps set the precedent for how trans* people are treated in other federal agencies. I read through the OPM guide the article referenced and was duly impressed with how on point the guidelines are. Would that they become standard across the employment spectrum and that the CIA use their evolution here as a model for evolution on other nefarious practices to which they still cling.
25
Perhaps Bruce Jenner could be inducted into the CIA and become the "poster boy" for the agency's LGBT community. That would put a public face on the issue within the service, no doubt leading to more "transitioning" within its ranks.
7
Forget the 'company' and concentrate on the fact that people like, Jenny, can still be oppressed and denied equal rights in many states. Not only is this wrong, it costs the nation and the US economy dearly in lost talent and hurt people
13
SURGICAL BENEFITS Gender reassignation surgery is met with considerable resistance because it makes people uncomfortable to come into contact with a person who assumes a new gender as an adult. By contrast, bariatric surgery for those who have life-threatening health problems involving obesity are routinely accepted. It's easy to understand, since there is an epidemic of obesity in the US. I think it would be helpful to focus more on the fact that employees are entitled to surgical and medical benefits. If an employee has a medical condition that medical experts agree needs to be resolved through surgical intervention, then I think we should all pause before expressing our personal discomfort and reflect on the needs of those receiving appropriate treatment for a medically diagnosable condition. Reframing the conversation could be beneficial to all concerned. Moreover, special toilet facilities for males, females, infants and the handicapped need to be made available to employees involved in gender transition, thereby alleviating routine situations where others are likely to feel uncomfortable with a person they perceive as being of the opposite gender as using the facilities inappropriately. I applaud the CIA for its progress. After all, if the spooks can do it, so can anyone else!
5
Obesity is a disease that kills people. Being a man or a woman is not a disease. Your attempt to compare bariatric surgery with gender reassignment surgery is laughable.
2
The suicide rate for transgender folks is around 41% So it also kils people.
There should we ONE question: Can she do the job?
23
Alan Turing, the father of the computer, AI and a lead Nazi code breaker at Bletchley Park UK during World War II, was a human being, a patriot, gay and competent. But after the war he was hounded into taking his own life after being arrested for a "morals" charge and given the choice between chemical castration and prison. See "The Imitation Game".
Alexander the Great, Shaka Zulu and Friedrich Von Steuben were all gay. So was the British Soviet spy traitor Guy Burgess who was a member of the infamous- otherwise mostly heterosexual- Cambridge Five spy ring.
One of my cousins was transgendered from male to female. Born with vestigial female physical traits her parents forced her into a male role. The mental emotional cruelty was inhuman and inhumane. She survived and thrived. I have gay siblings, nephews, nieces and cousins.
What happened on September 11, 2001 was the result of gross incompetence, hubris, ignorance and the stupidity of the American national security defense apparatus. And no one was held accountable nor was ashamed and honorable enough to apologize and resign.
All of God's or Mother's Nature's children are divinely naturally made human for a very special unique purpose, place and time. American human competent patriot at the CIA is what we need and deserve as the only relevant merit qualifications.
Alexander the Great, Shaka Zulu and Friedrich Von Steuben were all gay. So was the British Soviet spy traitor Guy Burgess who was a member of the infamous- otherwise mostly heterosexual- Cambridge Five spy ring.
One of my cousins was transgendered from male to female. Born with vestigial female physical traits her parents forced her into a male role. The mental emotional cruelty was inhuman and inhumane. She survived and thrived. I have gay siblings, nephews, nieces and cousins.
What happened on September 11, 2001 was the result of gross incompetence, hubris, ignorance and the stupidity of the American national security defense apparatus. And no one was held accountable nor was ashamed and honorable enough to apologize and resign.
All of God's or Mother's Nature's children are divinely naturally made human for a very special unique purpose, place and time. American human competent patriot at the CIA is what we need and deserve as the only relevant merit qualifications.
11
First and foremost, we are all born unique, and different. Variation and diversity are inherent in our human DNA.
What I don't understand, is the archaic, unworkable and unrealistic ideas that gender is rigid and defined by some narrowly physical classifications.
Gender isn't a moral or inferior aspect of humanity, but even in 2015, ordinary human beings still have to fight brutal prejudices that insist it is.
And yes, there is great potential that has been lost because of it.
What I don't understand, is the archaic, unworkable and unrealistic ideas that gender is rigid and defined by some narrowly physical classifications.
Gender isn't a moral or inferior aspect of humanity, but even in 2015, ordinary human beings still have to fight brutal prejudices that insist it is.
And yes, there is great potential that has been lost because of it.
I am a member of the far left, what the Europeans call a Democratic Socialist and I believe in equal rights for all, but I am deeply tired of hearing the transgender community complain. Be a woman. Be a man. Be a giraffe. Honestly, no one cares. It's your choice. But there are many other people out there whose rights are severely infringed upon in longstanding and dramatic ways. People who do not have the luxury to spend several thousands of dollars on surgery to change their gender because they feel that they were unjustly born "the wrong way."
Being transgender is a choice. Being Black, Latino, Muslim or poor is not. There are many people in our country who are suffering. I've never heard of a transgender person being profiled by police, denied a decent education and then forced to live in drug-adled neighborhoods or assumed to be a terrorist upon hello. I actually know two FTMs who received several bachelor's degrees (each) for free by playing the transgender card. Compared to other minority communities, which have been suffering for far longer and comprise a far more significant number of people, the transgender community is doing just fine. I think the media focuses so much on the transgender community because to focus on the other larger groups would certainly expose how complicit the media has been with the longstanding discrimination and inequality in our country.
Being transgender is a choice. Being Black, Latino, Muslim or poor is not. There are many people in our country who are suffering. I've never heard of a transgender person being profiled by police, denied a decent education and then forced to live in drug-adled neighborhoods or assumed to be a terrorist upon hello. I actually know two FTMs who received several bachelor's degrees (each) for free by playing the transgender card. Compared to other minority communities, which have been suffering for far longer and comprise a far more significant number of people, the transgender community is doing just fine. I think the media focuses so much on the transgender community because to focus on the other larger groups would certainly expose how complicit the media has been with the longstanding discrimination and inequality in our country.
30
Well said. It's extraordinary how fashionable it's become to pour attention onto gender rights issues. It underlines the incredible luxury enjoyed in our culture. It's a fabulous smoke screen hiding so many issues of greater injustices and serious world problems.
Yet a week doesn't go by that it's not front page news.
Yet a week doesn't go by that it's not front page news.
4
Being transgender is not a choice. It is the way some people are born, just the way some people are born gay, or straight, or black... The choice comes in how people deal with being transgender, and many people do not have "the luxury" to spend thousands of dollars to make any physical transition. There are many stories of transgender people being forced out of jobs, housing, families. Many live impoverished. All people who are living with discrimination, inequality, injustice are deserving of our compassion, and help toward a better life.
9
If you haven't heard such things it's because you haven't been listening, and that highlights EXACTLY why articles such as this are necessary. Police profiling, particularly of trans women of color, is rampant: if you're a trans woman, and you get stopped by the police with a condom or two in your purse, and the cops see them, you have a more likely than not chance of being arrested for prostitution. Employment discrimination is rampant and largely unpunished, as is discrimination in housing and medical care. On the subject of medical care, most trans people have to go without because the economic hardships imposed by their place in society prohibits having the finances to seek any out, and most medical providers remain exclusionary. Until very recently, being trans was a preexisting condition upon which to deny coverage, and there are numerous well-documented cases of claims entirely unrelated to transgender care, such as treatment for a broken arm, being denied on the basis of a person being transgendered.
I could go on, but the point is that your comment displays a pretty profound ignorance of the hardships faced by the transgender community, and in fact assumes many things to be true which simply are not the case. In other words, it's a good thing articles like those the Times has been publishing exist, because it's the first step in correcting the misinformation your incorrect assumptions and assertions rely on.
I could go on, but the point is that your comment displays a pretty profound ignorance of the hardships faced by the transgender community, and in fact assumes many things to be true which simply are not the case. In other words, it's a good thing articles like those the Times has been publishing exist, because it's the first step in correcting the misinformation your incorrect assumptions and assertions rely on.
6
I echo the comments of other readers who have expressed both skepticism toward "transgenderism" and marveled at the celebratory coverage it gets.
I begin in this way because I have expressed similar comments in the past but have failed to have them clear the Times' Newspeak filter. In the modern age, any expression of doubt as to the legitimacy of something like transgenderism is automatically doubleplusungood and must be censored. This is why some conservative thinkers have noted, rightly, that those on the left are not really in search of mere toleration for deviant groups but rather unqualified celebration. Anything less is a demonstration of "hate" and "bigotry." All acceptable channels of communication must lead in one direction.
Expressing skepticism about the legitimacy of transgenderism from a departure point of common sense, intuition, or gut instinct is simply intolerable — a noxious effusion of the blackest hate imaginable. One can attempt to cite present-day medical research suggesting that transgenderism may have its origins in external or voluntary factors such as society or the "transgender" individual's own desire to cultivate his new "identity"; however, doing so is equivalent to the Nazis' attempts to use science to demonstrate the subhuman nature of the Jewish people.
Today's surge for diversity is the desire for diversity in everything but thought. It's a shame that a free press enterprise like the NYT has submitted itself to such a cramped principle.
I begin in this way because I have expressed similar comments in the past but have failed to have them clear the Times' Newspeak filter. In the modern age, any expression of doubt as to the legitimacy of something like transgenderism is automatically doubleplusungood and must be censored. This is why some conservative thinkers have noted, rightly, that those on the left are not really in search of mere toleration for deviant groups but rather unqualified celebration. Anything less is a demonstration of "hate" and "bigotry." All acceptable channels of communication must lead in one direction.
Expressing skepticism about the legitimacy of transgenderism from a departure point of common sense, intuition, or gut instinct is simply intolerable — a noxious effusion of the blackest hate imaginable. One can attempt to cite present-day medical research suggesting that transgenderism may have its origins in external or voluntary factors such as society or the "transgender" individual's own desire to cultivate his new "identity"; however, doing so is equivalent to the Nazis' attempts to use science to demonstrate the subhuman nature of the Jewish people.
Today's surge for diversity is the desire for diversity in everything but thought. It's a shame that a free press enterprise like the NYT has submitted itself to such a cramped principle.
27
Jason -- you nailed it. It's called "dictatorship of virtue." The self-anointed "enlightened" lefties have decided they and ONLY they may determine what is acceptable public discourse (and, increasingly, private thought). There was once a guy like that -- his name was Robespierre.
16
Yes, accepting even more people is limiting the diversity of thought. How did you do in high school math?
4
What makes you think it's a "left" issue? One of the most virulently reactionary Fox "News" types I've ever met is a post-op MtF transgender.
Just like other people, TGs span the spectrums of socio-economic, educational, and political differences. The progressive side of the spectrum just happens to (usually) manifest greater compassion and less crude judgmentalism.
Just like other people, TGs span the spectrums of socio-economic, educational, and political differences. The progressive side of the spectrum just happens to (usually) manifest greater compassion and less crude judgmentalism.
6
The NY Times has completely lost its bearings. Not saying the few transgender folks out there do not face challenges. But this newspaper is fast becoming a laughingstock of left progressive agit-prop.
40
Just because you don't like what it's saying doesn't make it agitprop.
3
If a person can do the job described in the person's position description, why would you NOT want that person working for you?
12
This story shows just how far the federal government, especially the intelligence community, has come in terms of acknowledging and recognizing the needs and aspirations of LGBT community, a group of individuals who in the past were considered a major threat to national security for simply wanting to be who they are.
14
What this essay shows is that the government CAN accept differences when it puts its collective mind to it. It also shows that accepting those differences means less waste of human talents. It's a shame that the armed forces didn't learn this sooner because of how things were with DADT and before. They lost any number of valuable officers and enlisted men and women due to their narrow minded prejudice against gays and lesbians. Among those lost were Arabic translators when we needed them, good officers, some of whom committed suicide, others who retired before they would have, soldiers who were excellent at their jobs, etc. Yet the armed forces kept on personnel who harassed women, had affairs, assaulted gays and lesbians, assaulted women. It's a stain on the armed forces that they excluded people who wanted to serve their country, who were well qualified to do so because of their sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is part of what a person is. It's not all of what a person is. Gays and lesbians don't spend their days and nights trying to figure out how to have sex with others while on the job. As one commanding officer put it: he didn't care what the soldier did in her spare time, she was one of the best soldiers on the base. That didn't stop them discharging her while keeping on straight males who harassed women. I hope the change for transgender is carried over to the LGBT community in the armed forces.
Sexual orientation is part of what a person is. It's not all of what a person is. Gays and lesbians don't spend their days and nights trying to figure out how to have sex with others while on the job. As one commanding officer put it: he didn't care what the soldier did in her spare time, she was one of the best soldiers on the base. That didn't stop them discharging her while keeping on straight males who harassed women. I hope the change for transgender is carried over to the LGBT community in the armed forces.
28
You do realize that the law against gays serving was written by congress in the 1950's, right? It was not the military's choice after that. Congress made the law and it was up to congress to repeal the law. Those who blame the military have no sense of history.
And while homophobia is still present in military, I am very proud to see how the army handled things after the repeal. It was a pretty smooth transition as far as I could see. When DOMA was overturned, the army immediately altered its leave policies so that soldiers in states that banned gay marriage had an extra 3 days to fly to a state where it was legal so they could get hitched. They began treating same sex marriages the same as opposite sex marriages (i.e. badly, but with bennies).
On the other hand, it's the DoD's medical policy that is causing the problem for transgendered service members. Basically, it's up to DS Hagel and/or the president to fix this issue. I hope they do it very soon.
And while homophobia is still present in military, I am very proud to see how the army handled things after the repeal. It was a pretty smooth transition as far as I could see. When DOMA was overturned, the army immediately altered its leave policies so that soldiers in states that banned gay marriage had an extra 3 days to fly to a state where it was legal so they could get hitched. They began treating same sex marriages the same as opposite sex marriages (i.e. badly, but with bennies).
On the other hand, it's the DoD's medical policy that is causing the problem for transgendered service members. Basically, it's up to DS Hagel and/or the president to fix this issue. I hope they do it very soon.
1
@Lauren. When Clinton visited repealing the ban in 92-93, the armed forces were front and center against repeal, resulting in Don't Ask Don't Tell. (That said, we've come a long way, since then.)
1
So we should throw out the adulterers and drunks from the CIA? The ranks are thinning rapidly...
Is the CIA in the espionage/counterespionage business or is it there to act as a laboratory for gender politics?
31
Like any organization (and this is especially true for the government), the CIA should be in the business of figuring out the best ways to keep good employees, rather than drive them away. From the editorial, it sounds as though many at the CIA have made tremendous progress in this area. I look forward to the day when their actions are applauded by all instead of countered with depressing (and vaguely misogynistic) cynicism.
4
I suppose you might term any workplace where more than one human being works a "labaratory for gender politics." I believe all the evidence confirms their main business remains Intelligence.
3
The answer to that question is simple, the CIA needs good people, and issues like whether someone is transgendered or gay shouldn't matter, any more whether they are male or female, black, white, hispanic, asian, etc. What the CIA seems to be doing is coming into the 21st century and realizing that excluding people because of religious belief or just plain bigotry makes no sense.
If you want to see why, I suggest you see the movie "The Imitation Game" , and see how such stupidity destroyed someone who saved millions of lives and in many ways was responsible for modern technology, including this newspaper's website.
If you want to see why, I suggest you see the movie "The Imitation Game" , and see how such stupidity destroyed someone who saved millions of lives and in many ways was responsible for modern technology, including this newspaper's website.
5
Very moving story and much credit goes to Fran Moore her efforts to give "Jenny" the best possible chance of continued success in her career.
71
I am terribly sorry, the transgender "issue", which is not to say that there are real human issues for a SMALL, TINY, INFINITESIMAL percentage of the population, is the most over covered item in the media today. STOP IT ! If there is not more important news, then it is a great day.
61
No one is forcing you to read it.
71
Your condemnation of the Times would have been more appropriate for yesterday's long Magazine article on Kris Kardashian.
84
When a black man gets shot by a police officer it is a much covered story. When a young black transgender girl gets beaten to death in a bashing nobody even knows. This is not an "issue" It's about treating all PEOPLE equally and HUMANELY. I'm really sorry if you are not capable of that.
58
What this perverse agency needs to get straight is not its gender, but it's competence, whatever genitalia it has. Since its foundation our politicians - notoriously underqualified in foreign affairs - have depended on the advice of the CIA. We lost all the wars they led us into: Korea, Vietnam, Honduras (good for drugs, though,) Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, and they're dying to go into Iran, Venezuela, and even China if we're lucky.
I don't think this disastrous incompetence came from rearranging genitals or from the sexual disposition of its employees. I suspect it came from the untouchables at the top who aligned themselves with cartels and false friends (like Mossad,) coporate interests and the radical right.
One of the more important projects in the U.S. is the disbanding and total reorganization of all of our security and intelligence sources. We need security WITH democracy. The two are not inimical. And gender issues are really beside the point.
I don't think this disastrous incompetence came from rearranging genitals or from the sexual disposition of its employees. I suspect it came from the untouchables at the top who aligned themselves with cartels and false friends (like Mossad,) coporate interests and the radical right.
One of the more important projects in the U.S. is the disbanding and total reorganization of all of our security and intelligence sources. We need security WITH democracy. The two are not inimical. And gender issues are really beside the point.
51
I wonder whether transgender and other gender associated issues really merit editorial comment. The less said the better , unless it really interferes with any persons private lives . Tolerance of all should be the issue and not gender or homophobia.
29
to Kohn: Without editorial comment, issues and socials actions that deal with those issues, stay "in the closet", and public comment is the door to discussion.
I am 68 years old and remember not meeting my first "acknowledged gay" friend until I was in my 30s. And although he was very flamboyant and I knew, he drew me aside one day to share the fact that he was gay because he wanted to invite me to dinner to meet his partner. He actually was afraid to share his "secret" publicly because of the ramifications society would impose on him. Look how much has changed in 40 years.
Until people are more aware of the personal trauma that is involved in gender ID, we are forcing people who have issues into psychological and emotional persecution and torture. This article is one of I hope many that helps transgenders move out of the shadows, make transitions if that is important to them, and takes the taboo away from something that makes their lives difficult. And it IS important for us to know how our government agencies (and private sector, for that matter) treat ALL our citizens so that if there are inequities, it can be remedied.
I am 68 years old and remember not meeting my first "acknowledged gay" friend until I was in my 30s. And although he was very flamboyant and I knew, he drew me aside one day to share the fact that he was gay because he wanted to invite me to dinner to meet his partner. He actually was afraid to share his "secret" publicly because of the ramifications society would impose on him. Look how much has changed in 40 years.
Until people are more aware of the personal trauma that is involved in gender ID, we are forcing people who have issues into psychological and emotional persecution and torture. This article is one of I hope many that helps transgenders move out of the shadows, make transitions if that is important to them, and takes the taboo away from something that makes their lives difficult. And it IS important for us to know how our government agencies (and private sector, for that matter) treat ALL our citizens so that if there are inequities, it can be remedied.
5
Well, failure to speak means that you support the status quo. And as less and less is said, I think there is a danger of reverting back to harsher times.
3
Well, I can tell you that being transgender interferes with a lot of people's private lives: every transgender person, every person that loves them, every person that cares about true equality for all. All this ISIS stuff? All this racial unrest? Racial divides? Do they merit editorial content? They impact a lot of people but probably not the majority of Americans. We should just keep quiet about all of them because they don't directly impact us? Yes, tolerance should be the issue, but since it obviously doesn't come naturally to many, how do you treat tolerance without pointing out intolerance?
The CIA missed the fall of the Shah, the fall of the Soviet Union, the Arab Spring.
But, the LGBT community, they have covered.
How reassuring.
But, the LGBT community, they have covered.
How reassuring.
61
Like many other job candidates who were nonetheless eminently qualified to work for the CIA, having been recruited by one of their operatives, I was subjected to their puerile polygraph exam. On its basis I was excluded from further interviews in 1987 for reasons that of course were never made clear, left for me to conjecture. This agency has proved its worthlessness before and after that time, basically abusing its charter until it has become effectively a major drug-dealing cartel in its own right, a backdoor training academy providing expertise to establish death squads in Central America and elsewhere, and now poses a major threat to Americans' diminishing civil liberties, as Snowden and others have exposed. So they have to contend with a transgender employee? Woo-hoo! High time Congress revokes its charter anyway, since all the CIA does is suck down black budget billions with very little return to the nation as far as our security is concerned.
29
Just because you are not in a position to perceive the return to the nation does not been there has been very little. Most people never hear of most successful intelligence operations.
Really? A diatribe like that and you're wondering why you were rejected?
3
Ah, the humane CIA. Acceptance of the transgendered makes assassinations, torture, black site prisons, kidnappings ... so much more, you know, acceptable, as it were.
56
One may feel the need to validate oneself and surroundings on the ideology of a few bourgeois white European men. There are systems of thought other than what we’re taught in the west. I don’t. I am. I exist. That’s all we need to know. I’m not a construct. I’m not a fetish. I’m not a pathology. I exist as a human being, as part of the whole human experience. Not greater or less than any other human being.
"To tell men that they are equal has a certain sentimental appeal. But this appeal is small compared with that made by a propaganda that tells them that they are superior to others, and that others are inferior to them." - Karl Popper. The Open Society and Its Enemies