The video of a policeman apparently tampering with a crime scene, by moving his tazer to his unarmed victim, has probably pulled the rug out of the idea of only a few policemen violate the law. The idea that policemen are guardians of the public has been frayed, possibly beyond repair. The long blue line of silence does not help the police or their unions.
11
Let's be clear that doing your job as expected or getting killed while doing your job does not make anyone a hero.
The word hero should be reserved for either a type of sandwich, or for a person who goes beyond what is expected from her/him even when she/he knows there is a high risk of serious bodily injury or death.
The word hero should be reserved for either a type of sandwich, or for a person who goes beyond what is expected from her/him even when she/he knows there is a high risk of serious bodily injury or death.
13
President Obama (who smoked pot when young) could help a lot here by re-scheduling marijuana which is now Schedule 1 -- no medical value at all. Congress could do its bit and rein in the lost cause "war on drugs." Tell the DEA to knock it off (and seriously go after its budget), stop funneling federal counter-drug money to the states, and shift that federal money to the medical community.
The president has nothing to lose by advocating for a policy shift which would greatly help the poor, minorities, the young, the sick, and lead to a reduction in prison time and prison money. Oh, the jailers would be out a bit and so would the cops. Should our policies be built around what is good for jailers, cops, DAs, and the prison-industrial complex?
The president has nothing to lose by advocating for a policy shift which would greatly help the poor, minorities, the young, the sick, and lead to a reduction in prison time and prison money. Oh, the jailers would be out a bit and so would the cops. Should our policies be built around what is good for jailers, cops, DAs, and the prison-industrial complex?
5
Precisely because of comments like yours making an exception out of president Obama, while giving a pass to well known cocaine and alcohol addicted president Bush and others, is that president "Black" Obama cannot do much to legalize drugs even when to me and others makes a lot of sense to decrease organized crime.
4
the answer to your last question is big NO!!! The cops, their corrupt, goon-filled unions, and, of course, privatization prison industry are things that no sane American would lose sleep over, if their budgets were cut a bit - epsecially when it comes to local jurisdictions buying, from the feds, surplus military weapons and other tactical gear that just foments the perception of "main street, USA" as turning into a police state (or just a more blatant one than has existed before).
6
As I have written previously, when mayor De Blasio can publicly announce that recently NYC police are missing anything but three police officers then this story will have credibility.
2
Yes, privileged in that they always represented the right side of the law. Police forces attract arrogant bullies as well as those who want to do the right thing. But the police have always protected their own and people suffered, remained in jail, were not given their rights.
Body cameras on police is one step. No more fixed grand juries is another. True prosecutors need to prosecute police who commit crimes. Of course race plays a part, it's disingenuous to say it doesn't.
When a black child is shot dead withing 20 seconds of a police officer arriving, that is race. When an young black man is shot in a dark stair way cause the cop was scared, that is race. When a black man says I can't breathe and the officer continues to choke him, that is race, and when a black man is put in a police vehicle in good health and comes out with a partially severed spine and crushed pharynx, that is race.
Body cameras on police is one step. No more fixed grand juries is another. True prosecutors need to prosecute police who commit crimes. Of course race plays a part, it's disingenuous to say it doesn't.
When a black child is shot dead withing 20 seconds of a police officer arriving, that is race. When an young black man is shot in a dark stair way cause the cop was scared, that is race. When a black man says I can't breathe and the officer continues to choke him, that is race, and when a black man is put in a police vehicle in good health and comes out with a partially severed spine and crushed pharynx, that is race.
14
How about an experiment. Take a statistically poor area and lay off a few policemen. Use that money to put in social supports such as after school programs, counselling, mental health support, housing assistance, mentors to teach people who to be civilized and to explain how capitalism and holding a job works (these people probably have never been taught how the system works) and lets see if the taxpayer can save a buck.
5
It is a mistake to believe that the problem with police is racism because that is an example of not seeing the forest for the trees. The problem with police is much more of a them and us mentality along with the perception of who the enemy is the longer law enforcement officers serve. I attended a college in NY around the corner from the Police Academy in NY and became friends with a few cops while they were still in gray uniforms. Over the years I saw these men harden and go from idealistic good men to sort of good men with a chip on their shoulder. Being a police officer, like being in the military during war, requires people to be different than the average civilian but sometimes it goes too far and you have officers who longer know where the line is drawn between good behavior and bad. This isn't about race but between "the good guys" and the perceived bad guys. I am a middle age white male and have had police harass me for no reason at all because I crossed paths with them when they had no more good judgement left at the end of a long shift or possibly because they had lost their capacity for good judgement years before. I don't have an answer but as long as the problem is mislabeled there will never be a solution.
18
When any group of people in charge of something fight having their actions reviewed by others it's suspicious. They are telling us that they are the only ones who can judge what they do. Whether it's doctors, lawyers, or police officers, oversight is needed. Treating us like we're interlopers who don't belong begs the question of what is going wrong or what can be improved. As we as a nation have been seeing all too clearly in the last few years, the police have been too free a hand to shoot to kill. Situations are often made worse by police intervention, not better. People don't trust the police at all and it's not just African Americans, it's many Americans.
For the police to hide behind the fact that their jobs are dangerous is ridiculous. Doctors have dangerous jobs. Firemen have dangerous jobs. Teachers have dangerous jobs. But cops carry guns and some have used them improperly and unions have backed them up. Lynch's statements were completely out of proportion to what de Blasio was saying. He undermined any point another officer might have made. His automatic "The Mayor Is the ENEMY" stance didn't help. If the police want our support they have to be willing to explain themselves, to be part of the community rather than just patrol the community. Knowing who is in the neighborhood and what part they play can be more helpful than pulling people over at random and harassing them.
For the police to hide behind the fact that their jobs are dangerous is ridiculous. Doctors have dangerous jobs. Firemen have dangerous jobs. Teachers have dangerous jobs. But cops carry guns and some have used them improperly and unions have backed them up. Lynch's statements were completely out of proportion to what de Blasio was saying. He undermined any point another officer might have made. His automatic "The Mayor Is the ENEMY" stance didn't help. If the police want our support they have to be willing to explain themselves, to be part of the community rather than just patrol the community. Knowing who is in the neighborhood and what part they play can be more helpful than pulling people over at random and harassing them.
17
Am I the only one who has noticed that since the death of Mr. Garner, there have been three reported killings of police officers in New York City?
I say this not to justify mistreatment of minorites - or anyone - by police officers.
But the tragic death of three police officers illustrates the disproportionate amount of danger in which officers routinely find themselves. Recent events strongly imply that police officers are generally an invading force whose mission is to oppress minorities. No, their primary mission is to protect all of us, perhaps most particularly minority residents of high crime areas.
Police must be held accountable for the needless harm their actions cause. But, please, put that in the perspective of what they do on a day to day basis. While I don't mean in any way to minimize the death of any civilian, three police officers intentionally murdered to one civilian death unintentionally caused by gross negligence is a chilling statistic.
I say this not to justify mistreatment of minorites - or anyone - by police officers.
But the tragic death of three police officers illustrates the disproportionate amount of danger in which officers routinely find themselves. Recent events strongly imply that police officers are generally an invading force whose mission is to oppress minorities. No, their primary mission is to protect all of us, perhaps most particularly minority residents of high crime areas.
Police must be held accountable for the needless harm their actions cause. But, please, put that in the perspective of what they do on a day to day basis. While I don't mean in any way to minimize the death of any civilian, three police officers intentionally murdered to one civilian death unintentionally caused by gross negligence is a chilling statistic.
4
Are you saying police "officers" have the right to kill people when they may feel like it because their job is dangerous?
16
your numbers prove nothing. nor are they chilling. murders do not take place on a schedule. it could be a coincidence. you have no idea what went through the minds of the murderers of the police officers.
5
The third police officer was not intentionally murdered because of his career choice; he was working undercover. Please put that into perspective. Further, put into perspective that 404 people have been killed by police this year. If anything, this proves the disportionate amount of danger civilians find themselves in when they encounter the police. Finally, Mr. Garner's death was ruled a homicide. "Unintentionally caused by gross negligence" was not on the autopsy report.
9
I've heard police spokesmen on news media accusing critics of "playing the race card," and asserting that race does not play a role in policing. This is an example of the Big Lie, but it carries less weight in an age of the ubiquitous video camera.
People who are inclined to idolize the police and trust them in all matters should recall that in the dark decades of this country's history under slavery and more recently under legalized segregation, the police forces were in the front lines of enforcing those policies and practices. Obviously racism varies from one police officer to another, as with any group of people, but it is surely rampant in that line of work. What makes it worse is the misguided sense of solidarity that causes many police officers to tolerate and even cover for the more racist or aggressive fellow officers.
Now that demonstrations and videos have made the public more aware of this, police will have to stop hiding behind the Big Lie and take steps to put a leash on their less professional fellows. This should begin at the top, with severe sanctions for coverups, but ultimately it will be up to the rank and file (and their unions) to exercise peer pressure. Then everybody will be better off.
People who are inclined to idolize the police and trust them in all matters should recall that in the dark decades of this country's history under slavery and more recently under legalized segregation, the police forces were in the front lines of enforcing those policies and practices. Obviously racism varies from one police officer to another, as with any group of people, but it is surely rampant in that line of work. What makes it worse is the misguided sense of solidarity that causes many police officers to tolerate and even cover for the more racist or aggressive fellow officers.
Now that demonstrations and videos have made the public more aware of this, police will have to stop hiding behind the Big Lie and take steps to put a leash on their less professional fellows. This should begin at the top, with severe sanctions for coverups, but ultimately it will be up to the rank and file (and their unions) to exercise peer pressure. Then everybody will be better off.
18
If were going to have citizen review boards for the police, how about forming citizen review boards to assure that kids finish high school and don't have children before they graduate. Maybe not every problem is going to be solved by blaming the man.
4
Better yet, let's multitask and try to accomplish both, plus even more!
There are plenty of intelligent human beings, and virtually all people eventually learn how to accomplish multiple objectives concurrently.
Furthermore, many areas, particularly urban regions, have programs aimed at education support and mentoring. Obviously they aren't always, or even half the time, a success - but there's effort being made. Citizen review boards are a relatively new development and are not particularly commonplace.
Fortunately, we need not make a choice between one or the other, nor does "blame" have to be a factor.
There are plenty of intelligent human beings, and virtually all people eventually learn how to accomplish multiple objectives concurrently.
Furthermore, many areas, particularly urban regions, have programs aimed at education support and mentoring. Obviously they aren't always, or even half the time, a success - but there's effort being made. Citizen review boards are a relatively new development and are not particularly commonplace.
Fortunately, we need not make a choice between one or the other, nor does "blame" have to be a factor.
3
So let's solve the problem of poverty (but God forbid we spend money doing it) before we hold police officers accountable to the public who pays them and whom they serve.
No.
No.
3
Wow. Talk about changing the subject.
2
At least Police Unions can tip their hat to historic decreases in crime and dramatic improvement in quality of life. Why not write about teachers unions who have had the exact opposite effect performing their chosen profession. Reading and Math scores are so deep in the dark cellar and "no sun light" projected in the future.
3
Well written. Policemen are like most of us: hired to do a job, NOT to create a state within a state, which unions really are. Wouldn't it be nice if police and other public employees' unions were by law forbidden to support or oppose political candidate because it is a conflict of interest. However, individual policeman of course can support of oppose anyone they want. Furthermore, policeman are also privileged in that a criminal action against an officer carries more severe penalty that similar action against non-policeman. It make sense, but the reverse should also apply: criminal action by an officer should carry more severe punishment, as the officer breaks public trust.
13
Instead of developing "tactics" designed to maintain high levels of contempt and racial animus toward communities of color (regardless of economic level), police unions must commence pursuing colorblind and class-blind, professional evidence-based practices in their mandate to protect and serve everyone!
13
I was pulled over once by a police officer who asked me what my ethnicity was, I said, "What does my ethnicity have to do with this?" He said, "You look white but the last name on your drivers license indicates you are a minority, either Italian or Hispanic because it ends in a vowel." That sure was a rude awakening for me how they determine who is who even if they are wrong.
I always wondered from then on, if I submitted an application or resume, would I be rejected because my last name ended in a vowel.
I always wondered from then on, if I submitted an application or resume, would I be rejected because my last name ended in a vowel.
20
Hmmm, my last name ends in a vowel and it's German...
1
When do we stop kidding ourselves? Crime and punishment in America is big business. Most people in the world behind bars is not by chance. Some towns in upstate New York sole means of income is the nearby correctional facility. Four and five generations of families feeding off the bad behavior of some. Corrections is a billion dollar industry in America. Name a police chief who doesn't say if he only had more cops he could make things better. As Eisenhower warned of The Military Industrial Complex we should be sounding the alarm of the Prison Industrial Complex. As in any industry you must have raw material. Only in this industry the raw material is human beings. We send the cops to gather the material to get things started. Once the conveyor belt starts it run through the judicial system and after that we warehouse the product in the warehouses we call prison. It cost more to house a prisoner than to educate a child. We make sure there is always more product in the pipe line by under educating our poor. Welfare in prior years was geared to remove males from the household and to reward teen mothers. There was a time when welfare workers made surprise visits to see if any male was living there. In truth we made this problem and now when our harvest is bearing the fruit of our labors we are shocked. Substandard housing substandard education substandard services and no jobs what did we think was going to happen. We don't need any more studies we need to undo what we have created
29
I live in a gated community with a private "police" force of forty officers. They treat the property owners. like royalty. This is precisely how police should treat the citizens they are sworn to protect and serve. Complaints from the public should lead to swift dismissals of the offending officers, period.
11
Kenneth: Do they treat everyone who visits or works on your property like royalty too?
4
And how do they treat those they perceive to be out of place in your gated community? Nannies, gardeners, delivery men, guests of residents, and many other people generally are hunted and treated like scum. If you live in a gated community you have a duty to remind those officers where they stand and who they serve. A gun and a badge goes to the head a lot quicker than a shot of Irish whiskey and that's a problem.
12
"A gun and a badge goes to the head a lot quicker than a shot of Irish whiskey and that's a problem.
many a time we have seen a terrible outcome when the two factors are combined as many a police officer's wife will testify to the resultant abuse.
many a time we have seen a terrible outcome when the two factors are combined as many a police officer's wife will testify to the resultant abuse.
7
Equal justice for all should be the rule in dealing with police officers who commit violent crimes, like murder, against civilians. In fact police should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, where crime is concerned. We need to feel secure from police brutality.
But we shouldn't stop at holding police accountable for crimes they have committed. We should try to make sure that sociopaths, who are frequently drawn to law enforcement, precisely because it offers the possibility of brutalizing others and getting away with it, are prevented from becoming police officers in the first place. The most recent police atrocity against a young Black man was perpetrated by police who were Black as well as White. This shows us that although racism is certainly a factor in police brutality, it's not the whole story. An important part of the story is that sociopathic police target those they thing they are likely to get away with brutalizing.
But we shouldn't stop at holding police accountable for crimes they have committed. We should try to make sure that sociopaths, who are frequently drawn to law enforcement, precisely because it offers the possibility of brutalizing others and getting away with it, are prevented from becoming police officers in the first place. The most recent police atrocity against a young Black man was perpetrated by police who were Black as well as White. This shows us that although racism is certainly a factor in police brutality, it's not the whole story. An important part of the story is that sociopathic police target those they thing they are likely to get away with brutalizing.
10
A simple proposal: Require a degree in poetry as a prerequisite to becoming a police officer. Or maybe psychology. The problem is a deeply rooted macho culture. We have placed great power in the hands of those least capable of using it. Who, indeed, will guard the guardians?
9
In some cases the Unions seem to own the elected officials. right here in New York the Suffolk county PD has strangled taxpayers for wages and benefits that are through the roof. Yet they are one of the most incompetent county police agencies in New York. With little or no oversight by the elected D.A. nor the County Executive they seem to wander around in a fog when providing "service" for county residences and businesses. Just how many complaints were followed by remedial action or firing is some indication of the lack of supervision. Again their wages and benefits are way out of line for the quality of officer employed or level of competence on display daily in Suffolk.
4
An unintended consequence of the loss of law enforcement's "privileged position" will be the questioning, and ultimate reeling in, of outsized police pensions.
Retirement at age 50, with the spiking of overtime and unused sick time and vacation pay, oftentimes results in police (and fire) making more in retirement than while working.
Municipalities, where the payroll for police and fire is a major expense, can no longer afford to pay out 35 year pensions for 20 year careers. The current police response "you don't want 65 year old cops chasing 20 year old thugs" will ring more and more hollow and, in any event, negates the need for expensive DROP (Deferred Retirement Option Plans) plans that reward cops with both pay and a pension for a number of years.
Retirement at age 50, with the spiking of overtime and unused sick time and vacation pay, oftentimes results in police (and fire) making more in retirement than while working.
Municipalities, where the payroll for police and fire is a major expense, can no longer afford to pay out 35 year pensions for 20 year careers. The current police response "you don't want 65 year old cops chasing 20 year old thugs" will ring more and more hollow and, in any event, negates the need for expensive DROP (Deferred Retirement Option Plans) plans that reward cops with both pay and a pension for a number of years.
8
In Baltimore, minorities are complaining that the system is against them but the system has been run by the same minority group for the last 40 plus years. Billions of federal dollars have been sent to Baltimore to create programs to help youths and one-parent families but the city looks like its going the way of Detroit and soon may have to file for protection against its creditors.
Now the mayor is asking the DOJ to investigate its police department for "patterns and practices" of discrimination. Why isn't the public asking for her resignation and the resignation of the police chief? Who is responsible for the present situation?
Now the mayor is asking the DOJ to investigate its police department for "patterns and practices" of discrimination. Why isn't the public asking for her resignation and the resignation of the police chief? Who is responsible for the present situation?
6
These unions are corrupt, self-validating examples of an old order that cannot end soon enough. They are eroding what little public support the police have by protecting bad officers and pulling political stunts like turning their back of DeBlasio. The thin blue line must be shattered. Cops know there are bad cops out there.
9
What the police, or at least the police unions, still seem to fail to grasp is that perception is everything.
My current perception of law enforcement is most heavily informed by an interview from last December, in which Ari Melber interviewed Jeffrey Follmer, President of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Assoc., in the wake of the Tamir Rice shooting, and in response to Cleveland Browns football players wearing shirts supporting the families of Rice and Michael Brown. Follmer castigated the football players, saying they were being disrespectful to the police. In response to Melber pointing out that the events presented a two way communication between citizens and police, Follmer said, "We're not apologizing to anyone." He went on to justify his sentiment by pointing out that Darren Wilson (the officer who shot unarmed Michael Brown) was "cleared" by a grand jury, as if to say he had been tried and found not guilty.
When asked about the public's concern about multiple unarmed citizens being killed by police, he said, "How about this: Listen to police officers' commands, listen to what we tell you, and just stop.... The nation needs to realize when we tell you to do something, do it."
Had someone representing the police come forward since then and said something acknowledging some level of culpability or remorse, I think that would cast at least some positive light on my perception. That's just me, but I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.
My current perception of law enforcement is most heavily informed by an interview from last December, in which Ari Melber interviewed Jeffrey Follmer, President of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Assoc., in the wake of the Tamir Rice shooting, and in response to Cleveland Browns football players wearing shirts supporting the families of Rice and Michael Brown. Follmer castigated the football players, saying they were being disrespectful to the police. In response to Melber pointing out that the events presented a two way communication between citizens and police, Follmer said, "We're not apologizing to anyone." He went on to justify his sentiment by pointing out that Darren Wilson (the officer who shot unarmed Michael Brown) was "cleared" by a grand jury, as if to say he had been tried and found not guilty.
When asked about the public's concern about multiple unarmed citizens being killed by police, he said, "How about this: Listen to police officers' commands, listen to what we tell you, and just stop.... The nation needs to realize when we tell you to do something, do it."
Had someone representing the police come forward since then and said something acknowledging some level of culpability or remorse, I think that would cast at least some positive light on my perception. That's just me, but I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.
14
You're not alone. Believe me.
4
The people united will never be defeated.
2
Taking responsibility for one's own actions goes a long way in everyone's eyes. I am appalled at all the victim blaming happening in our country. Sadly it appears to me that the rights of minorities, women and the poor are disappearing along with compassion and fairness. Wealthy powerful criminals either do not go to prison or have very light sentences and the less powerful(i.e. abused women who kill their abusers while trying to protect themselves) serve extraordinarily long sentences in our heartless mostly white male system.
I have always been and remain pro union and police but at a time when the politically powerful are doing everything possible to destroy unions and innocent (or even guilty) people are being injured and killed by the police, I fear and dread the directionn we are heading for the rest of my lifetime.
I have always been and remain pro union and police but at a time when the politically powerful are doing everything possible to destroy unions and innocent (or even guilty) people are being injured and killed by the police, I fear and dread the directionn we are heading for the rest of my lifetime.
6
Police never should have been given a privileged position. That's the underlying problem.
I support law enforcement but I also demand accountability and if they were making real efforts to police themselves, we, the citizens, wouldn't have to be doing it ourselves.
I support law enforcement but I also demand accountability and if they were making real efforts to police themselves, we, the citizens, wouldn't have to be doing it ourselves.
12
This is tough stuff because the police are also our first line of defense in a society that values the rule of law. What so many NY Times readers' comments reflected during the recent Baltimore riots as well as those earlier in Ferguson, Missouri after Michael Brown was killed by a police officer, was that they were uncomfortable with black, mob violence and looting as a response to excessive use of police force directed mostly against young black men.
One of the most important political tasks of both state and local leaders is to walk a fine line between supporting the rights of citizens, and maintaining law and order in a civilized manner.
Mayor de Blasio, one of the most incompetent mayors New York City has ever had, didn't do this during his campaigning, and hasn't done a good job of it once he got elected. Even after it was clear he favored citizen rights over police authority, he continued to alienate the New York police line staff by going to the funerals of slain officers and attempting to make nice with them in inept, aggressive ways. He has lost their respect, and this isn't good politics. You don't have to like the NYC police to know they are important in maintaining order in a city of 8 million.
4
They needed to be taken down a peg, the attitude amongst most precincts is way more toxic than any perceived civilian threat.
6
Nothing shows the unions expectation of privilege more than PBA stickers on dashboards or vanity plates with "PBA Member" on them. It's basically just a message that says" Don't pull me over, I'm with you!" or "I get to speed when I want and park where I want."
12
So where do those conservatives, who keep alleging that the government is taking away our liberties, stand on the issue of police using excessive force? They are so outraged that the BLM tried to collect its debt from Bundy, but don't seem to mind the over arresting and deprivation of life by the police when perpetrated against other types.
8
Years ago when my Dad was a police officer the ranks were comprised of regular guys. Good guys, tough guys, everyday blue collar types. Many came out of the war, former MP or Shore Patrol, all embraced their communities. Each worked hard. Managing traffic, protecting people at public events, keeping the streets and roads safe. When the occasion called some were heroic. There has been a sea change of late. Some modern policing comes with a sense of entitlement starting day one. Every police officer is a hero brother, the general population is dehumanized as the enemy. Judgmental sentiment is replacing rule of law in our country and that is dangerous ground.
10
low pay, high stress, dangerous work, doesn't sound like privilege to me. Next time someone robs or assaults you or steals your property, think about who you're going to call.
4
The privilege is that you get to take out your frustrations from time to time. Firemen dont get that perk.
3
Good police are necessary. Thuggish police are not.
6
That doesn't mean that police should not be held accountable by the same laws and standards applied to the citizens they serve. I reject this notion that they are entitled to my unquestioning loyalty at all times.
6
We're seeing a pattern, and it's not a pretty one. I support the police and the terrible work they have to do, but things have clearly veered way off track. A correction is due.
5
As with alcoholism, the first step is to admit there is a problem. Most USA persons were way late on figuring that out. Now, there are two ways to solve the problem: Ballots and bullets. The more that gets done with ballots, the less that will have to be done with bullets, and that's important because good cop-killers are hard to find these days, although DAESH might help solve that problem.
Consider the War Between The States. The South tried to win with ballots and failed, and then tried to win with bullets, and failed, but when the war started, Southern members withdrew from Congress to serve in the Confederacy. Now, if you're in a war, and some of your men are behind enemy lines, the best place you could possibly have them is inside the enemy's legislature, where they can vote against the draft and against appropriations for the war. In fact, some U.S. Senators were later expelled, but the ones who withdrew could have stayed and voted against the expulsions.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Ten_Senators_Expelled...
Now, the solution is the Golden Rule. Part One: Whatever is the MAXIMUM a human could get for doing it to a cop, that's the MINIMUM a cop must get for doing that to a human. Crimes by criminals with badges are worse because it's illegal and risky to fight back. Part Two: A cop is guilty until proven innocent, because cops are in the business of collecting the evidence and proving cases, and the human cannot while being attacked by cops.
Consider the War Between The States. The South tried to win with ballots and failed, and then tried to win with bullets, and failed, but when the war started, Southern members withdrew from Congress to serve in the Confederacy. Now, if you're in a war, and some of your men are behind enemy lines, the best place you could possibly have them is inside the enemy's legislature, where they can vote against the draft and against appropriations for the war. In fact, some U.S. Senators were later expelled, but the ones who withdrew could have stayed and voted against the expulsions.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Ten_Senators_Expelled...
Now, the solution is the Golden Rule. Part One: Whatever is the MAXIMUM a human could get for doing it to a cop, that's the MINIMUM a cop must get for doing that to a human. Crimes by criminals with badges are worse because it's illegal and risky to fight back. Part Two: A cop is guilty until proven innocent, because cops are in the business of collecting the evidence and proving cases, and the human cannot while being attacked by cops.
5
NYC policeman Brian Moore's "reward" for his "privileged position" was to be shot dead last week by another black criminal. Too bad for him and his family.
If I were in public safety now, I would reduce my arrests of blacks in order to avoid immediate criticism and possible loss of my career.
The double standard now favors blacks and tolerates their violence in Baltimore, Ferguson, Los Angeles, and elsewhere.
If I were in public safety now, I would reduce my arrests of blacks in order to avoid immediate criticism and possible loss of my career.
The double standard now favors blacks and tolerates their violence in Baltimore, Ferguson, Los Angeles, and elsewhere.
4
Thank you for going out of your way to let us know the skin color of Officer Moore's shooter. That shed so much useful information to this very important subject.
Only it didn't. All it did was reveal a lot about you.
Only it didn't. All it did was reveal a lot about you.
10
I guess you don't support any of the Federal Government's statistics about who exactly kills who in the US. Police need oversight, but they also need the same rights as any citizen. After every trial where they have been found not guilty, people complain. Thank God that the police still answer our calls. I want to be protected lawfully; but I want to be protected. I do not want the police to respond and the just fill out a report, we coult hire stenographers for that.
1
You are putting forth a false choice, as though it must be one extreme or the other. Police absolutely have the same rights as citizens. In fact, they have more rights than citizens and that is a problem. Case in point is that the Baltimore Police Union has established a Bill of Rights for their law enforcement members that allow them to refuse to be interviewed for 10 days following an incident for which they are suspected of wrongdoing. In the case of Freddie Gray, a man was stopped, detained, handcuffed and taken into custody by police officers. That man died in that process and while he was under the total control of those officers. Those officers are suspects at the point of that man's death. Unlike citizens who would be subject to investigation that includes taking of statements (yes, in the presence of legal counsel), these officers did not have to comply. So, you see...they have more rights than those whom are subject to their enforcement. That must change.
I do not have to choose among the choices you have put forth. There are other options available between those vast extremes.
I do not have to choose among the choices you have put forth. There are other options available between those vast extremes.
3
Before easy video and audio, we relied on others to "contextualize what police do." That's any interesting way to describe cover-up.
7
Yup. Basically "contextualizing" means "we have a tough job, we'll do it however we like so back off".
New York City is using the unpopularity of police to avoid coming to a contract settlement with the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, representing tens of thousands of police officers. This is because the settlement would (by NYC labor tradition) set a "benchmark" for settlements with thousands of uniformed personnel in the Fire, Sanitation, and Correction departments as well, all of whom - like the PBA - have been working without contracts for years.
The reason NYC government does not settle contracts with these public unions is simple; it cannot afford to give them anything close to what they want and deserve. When current Mayor DeBlasio was running for office, and constantly deriding his predecessor Bloomberg, he and his allies loudly pointed out that the budget the City was turning over to the new Mayor was not "balanced" at all - and could not be considered balanced until the demands of these enormous unions were dealt with. Sixteen months later, DeBlasio has cherry-picked a few agreements with smaller unions (high-ranking officers) but achieved basically nothing to solve the budget instability he attributed to Bloomberg. Analysis of the City's budget problems, which used to appear frequently in this newspaper in the previous Administration, has disappeared since DeBlasio took office.
The reason NYC government does not settle contracts with these public unions is simple; it cannot afford to give them anything close to what they want and deserve. When current Mayor DeBlasio was running for office, and constantly deriding his predecessor Bloomberg, he and his allies loudly pointed out that the budget the City was turning over to the new Mayor was not "balanced" at all - and could not be considered balanced until the demands of these enormous unions were dealt with. Sixteen months later, DeBlasio has cherry-picked a few agreements with smaller unions (high-ranking officers) but achieved basically nothing to solve the budget instability he attributed to Bloomberg. Analysis of the City's budget problems, which used to appear frequently in this newspaper in the previous Administration, has disappeared since DeBlasio took office.
I'm confused. Is your comment about the issues raised in the article or simply your lodging a complaint against New York City's Mayor de Blasio?
5
Deserve?
Who told you police "officers" deserve anything else besides to be placed under body camera monitoring.
Who told you police "officers" deserve anything else besides to be placed under body camera monitoring.
2
I forgot to mention in my last reply to you. What do you know about Black people when the average salary in Bellevue, WA is 92k+ and the Black population is 2.3%.
Seriously, Katie.
Seriously, Katie.
2
Patrick Lynch (and everything he represents) is an anachronism. It's high time he and his ilk were put out to pasture.
Law enforcement in this country has grown far too muscular and militaristic; its tactics and culture effectively hidden from scrutiny and beyond reproach. Ultimately, these are public servants and, as such, need to be held accountable and, most importantly, need to be reminded that they, and the institutions they work for, are NOT above the law.
Kudos to Megan Green and her efforts to bring about SUBSTANTIVE change, which is what's required, not PR spin from police union leaders.
Civilian oversight boards with investigative "teeth" is a step in the right direction and LONG overdue.
Law enforcement in this country has grown far too muscular and militaristic; its tactics and culture effectively hidden from scrutiny and beyond reproach. Ultimately, these are public servants and, as such, need to be held accountable and, most importantly, need to be reminded that they, and the institutions they work for, are NOT above the law.
Kudos to Megan Green and her efforts to bring about SUBSTANTIVE change, which is what's required, not PR spin from police union leaders.
Civilian oversight boards with investigative "teeth" is a step in the right direction and LONG overdue.
13
With the precipitous drop in crime, do to partly reclassifying major crimes to lesser categories, precinct commanders are under great pressure to lower crime rates from the previous year record low! The result is over aggressive policing for minor violations. Issuing Criminal court summonses easily escalate to a police scuffle as the defendant refuses to comply with police orders and subsequently are charged with resisting arrest and disorderly conduct. The patrol officers are under pressure not to arrest but to produce summonses for quality of life offenses. In my waning days as an officer and being forced to meet my quota I confided to a co-worker that a crime epidemic was needed to address real issues of criminality. In NYC as in Baltimore and any other major US city, the police have become an assault force on the nation’s poor; seeking revenue from those most vulnerable; consequently forcing police to over-react as they attempt to meet their quotas and avoid the wrath from their superiors!
3
Lots of police bashing. How arrogant and violent the police are. How dumb they are, etc., etc.
Who among you would take on what the police take on every day? In our digital age where everyone has a camera and some folks in the inner city are even more violent than the police. The police are stuck in a situation where they have to use the correct amount of force every time they interact with the public. I realize we have some bad apples in every police force (and neighborhood) but I think the strident cop bashing is not helpful save for liberal chest pounding....
Who among you would take on what the police take on every day? In our digital age where everyone has a camera and some folks in the inner city are even more violent than the police. The police are stuck in a situation where they have to use the correct amount of force every time they interact with the public. I realize we have some bad apples in every police force (and neighborhood) but I think the strident cop bashing is not helpful save for liberal chest pounding....
4
"I realize we have some bad apples in every police force"
Unfortunately, the police unions do not agree.
Unfortunately, the police unions do not agree.
3
I'm a liberal. I'm also a veteran. If you cannot do the job you take an oath to do without abusing the privilege and authority that comes with that job...do something else. Period. The cameras and videos came out because of a long history of police misconduct and abuse and a total unwillingness of police to hold accountable, those in their ranks that do wrong. Cause - effect.
3
Thanks Darth!
Even in states where public service unions are curbed or forbidden to engage in collective bargaining, police have the right to form associations to protect their own and to lobby in state legislatures for matters of concern. Here in New York, Lynch has shown an unwarranted arrogance in his interactions with Mayor de Blasio and with the public. Apparently, he thought that he could win his union election by undermining a rather popular mayor. Clearly, this has backfired and diminished the public's respect for the police, in general. When next he goes to Albany for pension sweeteners or the maintenance of archaic work rules, he may not find so many friends. Although New York's police force has become rather diverse, it appears that the Lynch and the union's leadership hark back to an older New York demographic.
In New York, applicants for the force must have either two years of college or military experience. The latter is good for weapons training and for learning how to "dress a line" and march on parade. What seems to be woefully lacking is training in how to deal with a variety of situation. Giving a man a shield or badge and the authority to use lethal force has to be tempered with more education or more appropriate training. In other jurisdictions, the standards may be lower.
In New York, applicants for the force must have either two years of college or military experience. The latter is good for weapons training and for learning how to "dress a line" and march on parade. What seems to be woefully lacking is training in how to deal with a variety of situation. Giving a man a shield or badge and the authority to use lethal force has to be tempered with more education or more appropriate training. In other jurisdictions, the standards may be lower.
12
The article is about societies changing views on the role of police and the need for more direct civilian oversight.Given recent issues and a police culture that seems to view law enforcement as above and not integrated with society this makes sense. In this police Unions are the collective voice of the police in certain jurisdictions. Makes sense. Now comes the logic dysfunction. The article is not about Unions. It is about police and the Unions are their voices. So no this is not an indictment of unions, it is not an indictment of public unions and it is not some petard that progressives are hung on. Unions simply serve as a collective voice. But you know ideologues have to promote silly and illogical ideological views. Tired and sad ones as well.
Can we have citizen review boards for Congress? The white house? Local county and city governments? If not, no to isolating the police from this mess we call public servants.
1
We do have oversight over members of Congress and our President. It's called elections. We don't elect police and police are the only group you mentioned that have a gun and badge and daily contact with citizens in the streets. Citizen oversight is just a starting point for the reforms that are long overdue and MUST happen now.
3
We have them for those groups - they're called ELECTIONS!!!!!! Perhaps you've heard of them?
2
you have to start somewhere. if you start withthe police, the public will see the benefits immediately. your recipe is an excuse to do nothing. i am sure that if you were required to make full disclosure that you yourself or one of your relatives is in law enforcement.
4
Formula for Assaultive Police= incompetent job screening + graft and corruption+ no checks and balances+ class, race, religion prescriptive stereotyping, + prisons for profit industry+ drug and other laws that press poor people.
This terrible perfect storm overwhelms competent honest dedicated police in departments where they are at risk of being seen as disloyal to the terrible norms and behavior that is actually rewarded and practiced.
I know officers in charge of state training and their job is thankless and impossible in many instances. All the fine police people I know tell me these forces are so entrenched it is hopeless unless accountability is demanded and this formula is changed.
This s PRO POLICE not anti nor anti union. The unions cannot defend the current status quo. Nor should we threaten the many wonderful police officers and administrators. Reform is a must however. If must be forced unfortunately. Power does not yield by asking.
This terrible perfect storm overwhelms competent honest dedicated police in departments where they are at risk of being seen as disloyal to the terrible norms and behavior that is actually rewarded and practiced.
I know officers in charge of state training and their job is thankless and impossible in many instances. All the fine police people I know tell me these forces are so entrenched it is hopeless unless accountability is demanded and this formula is changed.
This s PRO POLICE not anti nor anti union. The unions cannot defend the current status quo. Nor should we threaten the many wonderful police officers and administrators. Reform is a must however. If must be forced unfortunately. Power does not yield by asking.
14
The days of Police Departments running roughshod over the communities they have sworn to "Protect & Serve" are over. If police unions and their members swear to live by this dictum ("Protect & Serve") then it would behoove them to interact with economically poor communities the same as they do with wealthier ones, respect African-Americans as you would any other culture, and never have an issue with any policies and or procedures whose only intent is to bring transparency to the carrying out of your members' duties. Accept the eroding of your privileged position graciously or have it embarrasingly forced upon you.
8
When one cop lies, it affects the credibility of every other cop. Without unassailable honesty, police have nothing.
10
So many factors responsible for these developments.
Let's not minimize the impact of the militarization of police forces, and not only with equipment give-aways. Veterans are generally given preference in hiring for all sorts of jobs, including law enforcement. So, rather than being confronted by "Officer Friendly," we are confronted by bulked up military types with shades and buzz-cuts, as far as you can get from the sorts of people most of us encounter daily. These are the same people who, for their survival, had to assume that everyone not like them was about to kill them. Who's surprised that they've brought these attitudes to their new jobs in law enforcement? From what I've seen in the videos circulating virtually non-stop on the web, it seems that many (most? all?) cops simply don't have the ability to communicate with normal people in the communities they serve.
Let's not minimize the impact of the militarization of police forces, and not only with equipment give-aways. Veterans are generally given preference in hiring for all sorts of jobs, including law enforcement. So, rather than being confronted by "Officer Friendly," we are confronted by bulked up military types with shades and buzz-cuts, as far as you can get from the sorts of people most of us encounter daily. These are the same people who, for their survival, had to assume that everyone not like them was about to kill them. Who's surprised that they've brought these attitudes to their new jobs in law enforcement? From what I've seen in the videos circulating virtually non-stop on the web, it seems that many (most? all?) cops simply don't have the ability to communicate with normal people in the communities they serve.
11
I totally agree with Bob from Portland.
As I do not think the Oligarchs who run this country will allow improvements to the work and life conditions of the 99% of the Americans, then either those oligarchs will move into secure locations or they will increase the violence of repression in the cities through a militarized police force.
As I do not think the Oligarchs who run this country will allow improvements to the work and life conditions of the 99% of the Americans, then either those oligarchs will move into secure locations or they will increase the violence of repression in the cities through a militarized police force.
4
Law enforcement professionals & their unions need to get behind and support any actions needed to keep mentally and/or emotionally unstable people off the departments. That should include substance abuse treatment, desk duty, etc if an officer is having a transient problem.
Everyone in a department know who is suffering from PSTD, who the bullies, sadists, narcissists, etc. are. Professionals need to act to keep the bad apples from bringing the entire profession into further disrepute.
Everyone in a department know who is suffering from PSTD, who the bullies, sadists, narcissists, etc. are. Professionals need to act to keep the bad apples from bringing the entire profession into further disrepute.
8
What I have never understood is the psychology of the police oppressing the very thing they are supposed to be protecting.
As a free people, our rights are guaranteed by the Constitution. The police are sworn to support these rights. However, they, their management, the political establishment, and the courts, generally appear bent on depriving the people of these rights.
I understand that the ordinary policeman is just a person with a job. However, the people hired for this work must either be wired differently, and a good argument can be made for this, or they must be torn up inside over the dissonance between their oath and their orders.
If it were up to me, the first thing I would do is get the police to stand down somewhat. Free people do not need an occupying force. Instead, the police should work harder to integrate themselves into the communities they have sworn to serve.
I'd almost be inclined to do away with the military style uniforms and make them walk their beats. It has always seemed counter-productive to have them driving around, armed to the teeth, looking for bogies with an "us vs them" mentality. If the police are to be the most effective, they have to see that they are part of us.
Of course, there is blame all around. The politicians who try to score points by pointing at scapegoats certainly bear great responsibility. Economic problems are not solved by putting more people in jail. However, that is a different issue.
As a free people, our rights are guaranteed by the Constitution. The police are sworn to support these rights. However, they, their management, the political establishment, and the courts, generally appear bent on depriving the people of these rights.
I understand that the ordinary policeman is just a person with a job. However, the people hired for this work must either be wired differently, and a good argument can be made for this, or they must be torn up inside over the dissonance between their oath and their orders.
If it were up to me, the first thing I would do is get the police to stand down somewhat. Free people do not need an occupying force. Instead, the police should work harder to integrate themselves into the communities they have sworn to serve.
I'd almost be inclined to do away with the military style uniforms and make them walk their beats. It has always seemed counter-productive to have them driving around, armed to the teeth, looking for bogies with an "us vs them" mentality. If the police are to be the most effective, they have to see that they are part of us.
Of course, there is blame all around. The politicians who try to score points by pointing at scapegoats certainly bear great responsibility. Economic problems are not solved by putting more people in jail. However, that is a different issue.
12
I am glad that someone else has pointed out what I, and so many others feel...that we are an occupied people...occupied by our own civilian law enforcement personnel. Frankly, I no longer feel safe.
3
"As a free people, our rights are guaranteed by the Constitution"
e
9/11 was used by people in power, many of whom are merely power hungry individuals seeking to undermine the the constitution. those rights are honored in the breach. they do not exist anymore.
e
9/11 was used by people in power, many of whom are merely power hungry individuals seeking to undermine the the constitution. those rights are honored in the breach. they do not exist anymore.
4
Police unions could help themselves if their leaders stopped making inflammatory public statements, and at least expressed remorse. The victims of the recent spate of police killings were accused of offenses which, even if the suspects had committed, do not come anywhere close to meriting the death penalty. It seemed an act of ultimate chutzpah for the police union head in Baltimore to accuse the prosecutor of rushing to judgment in charging (not convicting) police officers with criminal offenses in connection with the unnecessary death of Freddie Gray.
33
I personally do not believe in Public Sector Unions. They protect the bad workers, force raises that are not in step with the economy or the private sector, demand free healthcare, early retirement, and (almost) full pay for life after serving a lousy 20 years and retireing in their early 40s. They enable and demand these items from the very people that will also benefit - bloated, useless administrators.
However, the current attack on police (like the attack on doctors) is unforgivable. The selected reporting of incidents that are rare as far as outcome has driven many to assume that all police are bad (all doctors are overpaid or greedy). NOT TRUE! And what is worse, Ferguson has become the poster child for this story? The DOJ say too many tickets were written for black people; people that did in fact break the law?! You don't like the laws, change them. Until then, the police should enforce them and while they are not immune to investigation, or jail time for infractions, just because the NYTimes or the town of Ferguson doesn't like the fact that people that break the law get punished is no reason to attack the police daily.
Lastly, please NYTimes look into the backgrounds of ALL police, and teachers too. I think you'll find a root cause for some of your concerns. The tests and requirements for the jobs have been dumbed down to the point of a joke in most states. It's all done to be 'fair' don't you know?
However, the current attack on police (like the attack on doctors) is unforgivable. The selected reporting of incidents that are rare as far as outcome has driven many to assume that all police are bad (all doctors are overpaid or greedy). NOT TRUE! And what is worse, Ferguson has become the poster child for this story? The DOJ say too many tickets were written for black people; people that did in fact break the law?! You don't like the laws, change them. Until then, the police should enforce them and while they are not immune to investigation, or jail time for infractions, just because the NYTimes or the town of Ferguson doesn't like the fact that people that break the law get punished is no reason to attack the police daily.
Lastly, please NYTimes look into the backgrounds of ALL police, and teachers too. I think you'll find a root cause for some of your concerns. The tests and requirements for the jobs have been dumbed down to the point of a joke in most states. It's all done to be 'fair' don't you know?
9
So, not all police officers are bad -- whoever said they were? -- but the admission tests are so useless that they're allowing incompetents join the force?
I think there are some great officers out there. But let's be clear, this kind of behavior has been going on for centuries, police brutality towards people of color and the poor, back to the end of slavery, as authorities looked the other way while their white breathren lynched uppity black folk. The proliferation of video and camera phones is the best thing to have come along, as now finally there is documentation of this heinous behavior which has always been known by many underserved communities.
When I was a child, my parents, who grew up in the Jim Crow South, gave me "the talk." They stressed to me that the police were not my friends nor on my side, and that I must always be respectful and deferential no matter what, as they had the power to end my life, regardless of whether it was justified or not. That was 30 years ago and nothing has changed, except now the world has it on video.
When I was a child, my parents, who grew up in the Jim Crow South, gave me "the talk." They stressed to me that the police were not my friends nor on my side, and that I must always be respectful and deferential no matter what, as they had the power to end my life, regardless of whether it was justified or not. That was 30 years ago and nothing has changed, except now the world has it on video.
34
We need to tale a closer look at the culture within federal law enforcement as well. Let's start with the DEA.
13
Please let us be really honest here, though pulling the scabs off really hurts.
For people of essentially blue-collar background, without any particular aptitudes or specific career goals, civil service jobs have been the highway to middle-class life. Most cops don't go into policing because they have a strong interest in criminal justice and the improvement of society. They become cops because the odds are small that any individual cop will be killed or seriously injured on the job, and one can retire while still in the prime of life, with huge benefits, and get work afterwards--on or off the books--for another productive 20 years or so, and have a house in the suburbs.
These people didn't start out with warm feelings towards anyone not like themselves, and a couple of decades of seeing the worst of society only reinforces that. They socialize with other cops; they often come from multiple-generation families of cops; their ancestors were likely poor immigrants from places like Ireland and Italy, who were badly treated by the larger society when they got here, and they are as insular as any group can possibly be. What they share with their minority colleagues is the same struggle to escape a blue-collar background into all the *respectable* trappings of a middle-class life. They don't like the white guy in his suit with expensive briefcase any more than they like the black kid smoking a joint.
For people of essentially blue-collar background, without any particular aptitudes or specific career goals, civil service jobs have been the highway to middle-class life. Most cops don't go into policing because they have a strong interest in criminal justice and the improvement of society. They become cops because the odds are small that any individual cop will be killed or seriously injured on the job, and one can retire while still in the prime of life, with huge benefits, and get work afterwards--on or off the books--for another productive 20 years or so, and have a house in the suburbs.
These people didn't start out with warm feelings towards anyone not like themselves, and a couple of decades of seeing the worst of society only reinforces that. They socialize with other cops; they often come from multiple-generation families of cops; their ancestors were likely poor immigrants from places like Ireland and Italy, who were badly treated by the larger society when they got here, and they are as insular as any group can possibly be. What they share with their minority colleagues is the same struggle to escape a blue-collar background into all the *respectable* trappings of a middle-class life. They don't like the white guy in his suit with expensive briefcase any more than they like the black kid smoking a joint.
24
"They don't like the white guy in his suit with expensive briefcase any more than they like the black kid smoking a joint. "
But it's not the white guy in his suit that is being profiled, harassed, beaten and/or killed by police. That is an important distinction to be made.
But it's not the white guy in his suit that is being profiled, harassed, beaten and/or killed by police. That is an important distinction to be made.
1
Katie: Please read the many comments from white, middle-class people who have also been harassed and mistreated by cops.
I do not deny that there is anecdotal evidence but what I'm talking about is systemic, institutionalized and long-standing problems. That distinction is important.
1
"Lynch mob?" "Professional race agitators?" This is the language used by KKK types in the 60s to describe civil rights workers. Breathtakingly ironic projection of their own behavior. The fact that any policemen could find such comments appropriate says it all about their entitlement and the degree to which they need both retraining and oversight.
26
Ye reap what you sow. Police contempt and disrespect for the people they are supposed to serve is ubiquitous. Just now there is video for all to see. No tears for their unions: too bad, so sad.
24
Oh, I don't think the police have lost their privileged position at all, at least not where I come from. I live in a land where the police union and corrupt politicians are in cahoots, to the point where we have average cops on the beat -- many of them underworked -- pulling down $130K or more in annual base salary alone. Some have retired with cash packages around $800,000+.
These cops are still to be feared because you can't be sure you won't be arrested. One example: not long ago, I was returning home after a restaurant dinner. I was behind a police vehicle on a dark, lonely road. That vehicle was weaving across the double line repeatedly and showing brake lights at normal curves in the road, indicating to me that the driver was somehow impaired. Was I going to report it? No way. The risk was too great that the offending cop would be upset enough to take it out on me and have me arrested on some trumped-up charge. I fear for my safety around these characters in blue. And I'm white.
These cops are still to be feared because you can't be sure you won't be arrested. One example: not long ago, I was returning home after a restaurant dinner. I was behind a police vehicle on a dark, lonely road. That vehicle was weaving across the double line repeatedly and showing brake lights at normal curves in the road, indicating to me that the driver was somehow impaired. Was I going to report it? No way. The risk was too great that the offending cop would be upset enough to take it out on me and have me arrested on some trumped-up charge. I fear for my safety around these characters in blue. And I'm white.
27
I couldn't agree more. Corrupt police plus corrupt local politicos equals endless police misconduct without consequences, a threat to everyone. All to frequently the cops are thugs in blue.
" Loss of privileged position ." What ? Says which headline writer at the NYT ?! The police put their lives on the line everyday to protect those who follow the law against those who willfully do not. THAT is a job which deserves a privileged position, regardless of what some ' fundamental transformation ' agenda driven people may like to think.
7
I disagree. Perhaps it's a job that deserves respect...and it gets that. But privilege? No. Never. Not in my America. It's bad enough that we lived in a tiered society but I will never willingly go along with it.
3
Perhaps you should read SCA's comment, right above yours.
"Lives on the line?" How many police have been killed or injured in New York City, versus the number of "willful criminals" killed or injured while in custody , including Rkers Island. No one is above the law and this is what the article is suggesting, when it uses the term "privileged position." You are suggesting that the police are not keepers of the law but above the law. Do you really believe what you have written?
And as a guess, you are likely a police officer or related to a police officer. I too was once related to someone connected to the law and I would testify under oath that I heard my father-in-law, chief of police in a large city in the northeast, laugh when talking to other law keepers about beating up suspects while in custody. It happens all the time; it's against the law and is not a privilege permitted to anyone and particularly not to those who are sworn to uphold the law.
"Lives on the line?" How many police have been killed or injured in New York City, versus the number of "willful criminals" killed or injured while in custody , including Rkers Island. No one is above the law and this is what the article is suggesting, when it uses the term "privileged position." You are suggesting that the police are not keepers of the law but above the law. Do you really believe what you have written?
And as a guess, you are likely a police officer or related to a police officer. I too was once related to someone connected to the law and I would testify under oath that I heard my father-in-law, chief of police in a large city in the northeast, laugh when talking to other law keepers about beating up suspects while in custody. It happens all the time; it's against the law and is not a privilege permitted to anyone and particularly not to those who are sworn to uphold the law.
1
Law enforcement doesn't even rank in the top 10, or even top 15, under the Dept. of Labor's ranking of most dangerous jobs. Not even close. Commercial fishermen, pilots, trash collectors, roofers, loggers -- these and others are all far more dangerous.
If the mayor doesn't have the power to fire bad cops, then the police department is not HER institution. Whether it's a union of police officers or a union of corrections officers or a union of teachers, mayors and governors are powerless compared to union chiefs. THAT is what has to change. The sick culture will follow.
15
Elected officials have traded the power of supervision and firing for the votes of the Unions and their members. It was a devils bargain that the public now has to live with.
ALL new contracts should be revised to streamline the disciplinary process and get rid of the overly legalistic, never-ending "due process" charade that now passes for "workplace job protection."
Petty criminals, malcontents, rule breakers and malingers should be dealt with within some reasonable structure. then a decision made and the individual either fired, disciplined, retrained or exonerated. It is time to do SOMETHING.
My guess this would get rid of many of the current problems that can be traced back to unsuitable individuals being entrusted with the "power of the police person." Every cop knows of at least three individual whom they refer to amount themselves as a "head case" or a do nothing. Seems the supervisors know too but are too emasculated by Union rules to actually do anything.
ALL new contracts should be revised to streamline the disciplinary process and get rid of the overly legalistic, never-ending "due process" charade that now passes for "workplace job protection."
Petty criminals, malcontents, rule breakers and malingers should be dealt with within some reasonable structure. then a decision made and the individual either fired, disciplined, retrained or exonerated. It is time to do SOMETHING.
My guess this would get rid of many of the current problems that can be traced back to unsuitable individuals being entrusted with the "power of the police person." Every cop knows of at least three individual whom they refer to amount themselves as a "head case" or a do nothing. Seems the supervisors know too but are too emasculated by Union rules to actually do anything.
It is clear we have serious issues with policing in the US. While the media attention has focused on the racial aspects in recent high profile cases, the reality is that this is less about race and more about a culture change. Three of the cops in the Freddie Gray case were black. As a black man, I never forget the lessons learned in the South Bronx when confronted by police. That said, we must recognize the great work being done by very good officers. In the media hype, we tend to forget this. We need to throw out the dirty bath water but not the baby.
12
When the good cops condone the behavior of the bad ones, then the entire force suffers. This is the crux of the problem. When problem officers are shielded by a culture of corruption, among the police unions, the prosecutors and the judges, the system will never change. The public has had enough
2
Not as clear as you might think. There are vast stretches of the country where the Police do their jobs everyday with little or no problems. African/Americans make up just over 10% of the population but seem to have 90% of problems with Police. With all the noise and riots some might think the entire country is being brutalized everyday by rough officers. Like poverty and lack of education it seems that the problems with policing will have to be solved by someone else since the "community" seems unable or unwilling to engage in a systematic reform process to make things better. Riots and looting not only make things worse but result in law-abiding citizens losing empathy for the whining of the Sharpton's of the world. Police are answerable to elected officials and they in turn to the community. NO ONE is answerable to criminals and rioters. Reform takes the type of hard work that seems beyond the dint of many who complain the loudest.
1
I would love to feel good about supporting good cops, but that's very difficult to do when the "good cops" cover up for bad cops or, worse, are indifferent to the physical violence and death bad cops visit on certain neighborhoods.
39
Do doctors or any other profession turn in their counterparts in any significant numbers. After all incompetent doctors often result in death after death without their brethren rushing forward to medical boards and other authorities. Just human nature NOT some broader defect. Police have many outside overseers that should keep the bad apples at bay. Elected officials seem unable to do their jobs.
NO ONE questions that police perform a dangerous job in difficult conditions BUT they habitually use the risks inherent in their position to attempt to intimidate anyone who dares to criticize their excessive behavior when it occurs. The moment they decided it was ok to turn their backs on the mayor of New York, my view towards them changed dramatically. HOW DARE THEY show such disrespect for the legally elected officials of the city. TRY doing that in the private sector....turn your back on your boss and show disrespect and see how long you last. Being a police officer is a voluntary decision that each make and if they are unable to do their jobs in a professional way then they shouldn't be allowed to do them at all. The public supports the police department and our safety depend upon them BUT special privileges like being allowed 10 days after an incident before speaking with officials (the so-called Police Bill of Rights) and other related unfair practices should be done away with at once.
31
Elected officials are NOT some priesthood that MUST be respected. Maybe if Germans had turned their backs on Hitler we would have had a better world. Italy elected its dictator. They not only turned their backs on him but hung him in the town square. The passive protest against the mayor seems benign when you consider his statements toward the police. Police Officers are citizens of the country and have rights of protest and petition just like you.
1
Besides, if you chose to be a police officer because that is what you like and want to do nobody owes you anything for your choice, just like nobody owes anybody who decided to be an actor or a doctor or a beautician.
citizens lumps the police together because what ever your race, you simply do not know which policeman will be abusive. When you meet him, you will probably be alone, he will have friends to protect him and you will be absolutely helpless. No one will assist you. It will probably be at night. You have no way of identifying what that abusive policeman will look like and there will be no warning. He will not have a badge on that says Abusive or Racist Cop. He will not have a badge on that says Honest and Reasonable Cop. He certainly will not have a badge on that says "Killer"
20
But if you are a white person you are much less likely to be harassed just because you are white.
1
Each year in the United States, police shoot far more whites than blacks. Yet the incidents involving black suspects, not white suspects, are "high-profile encounters involving allegations of overreach."
Blacks are protesting police action against blacks as expression of their economic, social and political status. The protests against police "overreach" are an acting out against broader perception of blacks of their diminished place in American society. Law enforcement personnel are the lightning rod.
This is not to diminish the gravity of the isolation of blacks in America. From the earliest days of the republic, the men who drafted and adopted the Constitution merely deferred an end to slavery. Strategic desperation brought Lincoln to proclaim emancipation of the slaves of the Confederacy, but not those of the Union; he and most northerners preferred emigration of slaves to Central or South America but that did not work out due to cost and resistance by potential host venues. Today, for the most part, blacks reside separately from whites and more recent immigrant populations.
Federal action to cleanse the attitudes of urban cops will not address the fact that whites do not accept blacks and resist carrying poor blacks on their economic backs, particularly during the current collapse of the white middle class.
Alteration of urban police practices will not relieve the real reason for current black protests.
Blacks are protesting police action against blacks as expression of their economic, social and political status. The protests against police "overreach" are an acting out against broader perception of blacks of their diminished place in American society. Law enforcement personnel are the lightning rod.
This is not to diminish the gravity of the isolation of blacks in America. From the earliest days of the republic, the men who drafted and adopted the Constitution merely deferred an end to slavery. Strategic desperation brought Lincoln to proclaim emancipation of the slaves of the Confederacy, but not those of the Union; he and most northerners preferred emigration of slaves to Central or South America but that did not work out due to cost and resistance by potential host venues. Today, for the most part, blacks reside separately from whites and more recent immigrant populations.
Federal action to cleanse the attitudes of urban cops will not address the fact that whites do not accept blacks and resist carrying poor blacks on their economic backs, particularly during the current collapse of the white middle class.
Alteration of urban police practices will not relieve the real reason for current black protests.
2
I'm white, a woman and upper middle class. I'm protesting, too. I'm not the only white face in the many protest crowds across the nation. We are far more united on this issue that you and others seem to believe or accept.
3
What is truly amazing is how oblivious some major police departments seem to be of what the public is seeing on TV. You would think that after the Ferguson incident that police chiefs in every city throughout the country would have had meetings with the rank and file to make sure that they do things by the book, yet we're still seeing one fatality after another. If such meetings have occurred and police officers have disregarded the instructions and are acting on their own then civilian oversight is a necessity that can't be overlooked any longer.
26
Greater violence is needed to keep the underclass in line when the division of wealth is so severe. Nothing to worry about. This happens in all fascist countries.
35
Police struggle not with the "loss" of their privileged position, but with the sanctioned and unchecked abuse of that position. They failed to police the one community in which order is supported--themselves.
They mocked, belittled, cursed, arrested without cause, even killed those who they targeted, using group intimidation and blame and fear to justify and game the system they served and sought to rise above the law.
Police support for each other turned into ideological cult shielding killers from accountability.
The states attorney in Baltimore, like Kim Worthy, years before in Detroit in the Malice Green case, is rebalancing the scales of justice (and power!) by giving the officers their day in court rather than protecting those who willfully, consistently and without consequence, in their lives as police, abuse power through violence, death, and indifference in the name of solving crimes in minority neighborhoods.
They mocked, belittled, cursed, arrested without cause, even killed those who they targeted, using group intimidation and blame and fear to justify and game the system they served and sought to rise above the law.
Police support for each other turned into ideological cult shielding killers from accountability.
The states attorney in Baltimore, like Kim Worthy, years before in Detroit in the Malice Green case, is rebalancing the scales of justice (and power!) by giving the officers their day in court rather than protecting those who willfully, consistently and without consequence, in their lives as police, abuse power through violence, death, and indifference in the name of solving crimes in minority neighborhoods.
24
Police unions throughout the country are repeating the same mistakes their counterparts in the private sectors, particularly steel and automobile, made in the 1970s and 1980s. Private sector unions failed to recognize the work place environment was changing and evolve.
Police unions have been tone deaf to calls to be positive contributors to the communities their members serve by radically changing how policing is done in America. Police unions have vehemently opposed having their members wear cameras. Leaders of police unions and their members refuse to acknowledge the blank checks of unaccountability for the maiming and murder of minority citizens and suspects has been canceled.
The Baltimore Police have their own Bill of Rights in addition to the amendments to the Constitution. This special set of rights lead to a unacceptable delay of 10 days before the police officers involved in Mr. Grey's murder could be questioned. No one, not even the police, are entitled to any additional or special rights if they are suspected of having committed a crime.
We citizens are also to blame because we allowed our support and respect for the important and dangerous work police do turn into an unspoken presumption of not being accountable. Uncritical support and lack of effective citizen oversight of law enforcement is at the heart of the problem.
Police unions have been tone deaf to calls to be positive contributors to the communities their members serve by radically changing how policing is done in America. Police unions have vehemently opposed having their members wear cameras. Leaders of police unions and their members refuse to acknowledge the blank checks of unaccountability for the maiming and murder of minority citizens and suspects has been canceled.
The Baltimore Police have their own Bill of Rights in addition to the amendments to the Constitution. This special set of rights lead to a unacceptable delay of 10 days before the police officers involved in Mr. Grey's murder could be questioned. No one, not even the police, are entitled to any additional or special rights if they are suspected of having committed a crime.
We citizens are also to blame because we allowed our support and respect for the important and dangerous work police do turn into an unspoken presumption of not being accountable. Uncritical support and lack of effective citizen oversight of law enforcement is at the heart of the problem.
32
Power over others without accountability is equal to abuse without exception because saints do not exist.
Activities by Doctors and hospitals cause far more deaths then police. Yet no one is asking them to wear cameras or have their every encounter recorded.
Police engage in millions of interactions with citizens, a small number of them violent and chaotic. As a percentage ones that 'go wrong" are very small yet we call for throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Stereotyping and broad brushing appears to be alive and well on the pages of the NYT.
Police engage in millions of interactions with citizens, a small number of them violent and chaotic. As a percentage ones that 'go wrong" are very small yet we call for throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Stereotyping and broad brushing appears to be alive and well on the pages of the NYT.
1
Police need to be ruled by the same code that cadets at West Point are ....
Cadet Honor Code which states "A Cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do."
The key to improving policing and the quality of the offices is that part of the code that states ''''....... or tolerate those who do'''
Which would mean no more 'Blue Wall of Silence' and then and only then will we clean up the ranks of our police forces .
Cadet Honor Code which states "A Cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do."
The key to improving policing and the quality of the offices is that part of the code that states ''''....... or tolerate those who do'''
Which would mean no more 'Blue Wall of Silence' and then and only then will we clean up the ranks of our police forces .
14
It may be in the cadet code of ethics but that does not mean cadets live by it.
One aspect the article does not mention is the privileged position police unions enjoy when politicians move to rein in public employee unions and curtail benefits. It often seems that "labor reform" applies to all public employee unions except police and firefighters. These anti-union efforts are justified by the need for governments to have greater control over work rules and hiring and firing. Yet in many cases, efforts to impose greater oversight and accountability on police are blocked by the restrictions of collective bargaining agreements. The comments of Jeff Roorda of the St Louis police union are especially revealing in this regard: rather than work with the Aldermen to craft acceptable oversight legislation, the union plans to challenge the reforms as violations of their collective bargaining agreements.
16
Look what happened in Ohio when John Kasich pushed the union-busting SB 5 in 2011-2012. He made the political mistake of lumping in the police with the teachers and firefighters when it came to his target. As soon as I heard local cops calling Kasich profane names, I knew SB 5 was doomed. Kasich got his head handed back to him with that one.
7
An interesting thing I've noted is that members of most public sector unions rally in support of each other...of other unions. Then there are police unions who never seem to care much about anyone but themselves.
Speaks volumes.
Speaks volumes.
1
So, let's undo the police unions.
Our police need to stop being soldiers and go back to being police.
27
Police need to stop hunting us while they reform in all ways.
We are not DEER or DUCK or GAME!
They hunt you and me every time they setup speed or traffic-signage traps. Those traps are not protecting anyone and not slowing anyone down. They are money grabs by the Fraternal Orders and the officials that govern the police departments. This is crime at its best; legal.
BTW...speeding tickets should not be a flat fee because that means poor folks are paying way more than the rich. They need to be a percentage of income like 1/10th of 1 week's pay.
We are not DEER or DUCK or GAME!
They hunt you and me every time they setup speed or traffic-signage traps. Those traps are not protecting anyone and not slowing anyone down. They are money grabs by the Fraternal Orders and the officials that govern the police departments. This is crime at its best; legal.
BTW...speeding tickets should not be a flat fee because that means poor folks are paying way more than the rich. They need to be a percentage of income like 1/10th of 1 week's pay.
The police have always abused their position, and yes, we let them do it for what seemed the greater good at the time.
Its not just race relations however.
Its the good ole boy cop pulling over the Yankee license plates, the pretty girl (this happened to my wife), the hidden speed trap to raise cash, and the list goes on and on.
The difference recently is that we're correctly focused on the absurd notion that just being a cop gives you a free pass to misbehave, made only worse by the brazen disregard for human life, not just minorities, but the mentally ill or just plain having a bad day.
Union reps running to get behind the camera to defend such misbehavior just focus the public on how out of touch with reality they really are.
Its high time to reign in the police, the NSA , and just about all aspects of government that assault our freedom everyday. That's not supposed to be what the country is about.
Its not just race relations however.
Its the good ole boy cop pulling over the Yankee license plates, the pretty girl (this happened to my wife), the hidden speed trap to raise cash, and the list goes on and on.
The difference recently is that we're correctly focused on the absurd notion that just being a cop gives you a free pass to misbehave, made only worse by the brazen disregard for human life, not just minorities, but the mentally ill or just plain having a bad day.
Union reps running to get behind the camera to defend such misbehavior just focus the public on how out of touch with reality they really are.
Its high time to reign in the police, the NSA , and just about all aspects of government that assault our freedom everyday. That's not supposed to be what the country is about.
23
We could start with a zero tolerance of crime.
The police department leadership here talks about stopping big crime by attacking small crime. Chewing bubble gum. Not allowed because it might be thrown on the street or subway tracks. Bike riding on the sidewalks. No more as it could cause problems later. The list goes on.
So we have to do with the police as is done with the "hoodie" crowd; create an environment of no small crimes allowed. Police should be instructed not to speed, dim their lights, not to be involved in any sexual harassment, make full stops, not tailgate and not double park. Then the ending of these small crimes will end bigger crimes like unjustified shooting people, not take graft, or expect any special favors when driving (speeding) their own vehicles.
The police should never be used to stop or monitor civil protest guaranteed by the Constitution. And the war department soldiers should stay out of political protest too.
The Declaration's words speak to us:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, ...are created equal, that they are endowed ....with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted ...., deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
Power to the People.
The police department leadership here talks about stopping big crime by attacking small crime. Chewing bubble gum. Not allowed because it might be thrown on the street or subway tracks. Bike riding on the sidewalks. No more as it could cause problems later. The list goes on.
So we have to do with the police as is done with the "hoodie" crowd; create an environment of no small crimes allowed. Police should be instructed not to speed, dim their lights, not to be involved in any sexual harassment, make full stops, not tailgate and not double park. Then the ending of these small crimes will end bigger crimes like unjustified shooting people, not take graft, or expect any special favors when driving (speeding) their own vehicles.
The police should never be used to stop or monitor civil protest guaranteed by the Constitution. And the war department soldiers should stay out of political protest too.
The Declaration's words speak to us:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, ...are created equal, that they are endowed ....with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted ...., deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
Power to the People.
1
"But amid a rash of high-profile encounters involving allegations of police overreach in ..."
What is police overreach? Using this logic, certain despots aren't guilty of crimes against humanity, but of what? Gross overreach?
Gil Scott-Heron once wrote "It became so you couldn't call a spade a (blankety-blank) spade." True then, and true now. I can see (and disagree with) why the Times would not use the term "murder," but "overreach"? Not even "shootings," until it's the police getting shot. Unarmed victims? Not in this "analysis."
What is police overreach? Using this logic, certain despots aren't guilty of crimes against humanity, but of what? Gross overreach?
Gil Scott-Heron once wrote "It became so you couldn't call a spade a (blankety-blank) spade." True then, and true now. I can see (and disagree with) why the Times would not use the term "murder," but "overreach"? Not even "shootings," until it's the police getting shot. Unarmed victims? Not in this "analysis."
7
It's about time for police to come down from their high horse, and accept consequences of their behavior, Their union is a force for evil and should be banned. Remember Serpico.
21
Nothing has changed since Serpico denounced the abuses of corruption of the police forces, except for the numbers that show us the date in the calendar.
It's drugs people, decriminalize and take the problem away from the police.
Take the money out of the game and crime will fall, we will need less police, prisons, and the whole law enforcement scene will be transformed.
Drug treatment, not prisons.
Sixty thousand Mexicans killed in the last five years.
End the black market demand and deal with it.
Take the money out of the game and crime will fall, we will need less police, prisons, and the whole law enforcement scene will be transformed.
Drug treatment, not prisons.
Sixty thousand Mexicans killed in the last five years.
End the black market demand and deal with it.
18
And while you are at it legalize, regulate & tax prostitution. Decriminalize drugs and sex and eliminate major sources of criminal behavior.
In the Illinois Pattern Jury Instructions, there is an Instruction stating that just because a witness is a police officer, he or she, is not entitled to any greater credibility than any other witness. This Instruction is routinely given in all jury trials, on the motion of defense counsel where police witnesses are expected to testify. Whether this instruction is given serious consideration by jurors in their deliberations is an open question, but in the wake of recent events in North Charleston, NC and Baltimore, MD, it is certain that jurors will more seriously consider that Instruction and apply heightened scrutiny to police testimony!
7
Unfortunately, that is not the case with grand juries. They are not given jury instructions like that to consider.
American policing and the criminal justice system are some of the last vestiges of institutionalized racisim in this country. When are we going to wake up to this abuse and overhaul this warped system that criminalizes the poor and dark skinned among us?
12
Law-abiding citizens will rue the day that policing methods are dictated by criminals and rioters. U.S. crime rates, once untenable, improved due to aggressive policing. Europeans know this; their officers are armed with automatic rifles and supported by the populace who have not allowed racial groups to dictate public police policy.
6
Europe as you describe is a very different place than what I and other Americans have experienced. I haven't seen any automatic rifles in my journeys thru London and Amsterdam.
You have no proof that crime rates decreased because of aggressive policing. Others think that increased access to abortion is the main reason.
And do you think Freddie Gray was dictating police policy? I don't think so - he's dead.
You have no proof that crime rates decreased because of aggressive policing. Others think that increased access to abortion is the main reason.
And do you think Freddie Gray was dictating police policy? I don't think so - he's dead.
1
Which Europeans are those? The ones in Russia?
2
The unions failed to deal with the problem members in a significant way. Real group leadership sometimes requires the expulsion of members who are doing wrong. Since they refused to deal with it, the public has finally decided to start doing something about the problem of police abuse of authority and the misuse of police forces by politicians who seek to raise revenue through abusive police actions. The days of abusive asset forfieiture and fines on top of fines may be slowly coming to an end.
13
When travelling abroad I have met many people who've said they will NOT visit the USA due to police brutality and the fear of being arrested and or jailed. I was surprised at first by their remarks but now I totally understand.
Lots of Canadians won't cross the border in fear of our agents posted at those border crossings. All of this does not bode well in the foreign press/news.
Would you want to visit this country if you were a foreigner, especially if you're a person of color?
It's not just our local police that abuse their privilage(s), the border patrol, TSA and other law enforcement agencies must be reigned in somehow.
There's talk of arming the TSA with guns-yikes!!
Who exactly is policing the police?
The 'us' against 'them' (civilians) mentality must be curtailed as well.
We are not engaging in a civil war with law enforcers, or are we?
Lots of Canadians won't cross the border in fear of our agents posted at those border crossings. All of this does not bode well in the foreign press/news.
Would you want to visit this country if you were a foreigner, especially if you're a person of color?
It's not just our local police that abuse their privilage(s), the border patrol, TSA and other law enforcement agencies must be reigned in somehow.
There's talk of arming the TSA with guns-yikes!!
Who exactly is policing the police?
The 'us' against 'them' (civilians) mentality must be curtailed as well.
We are not engaging in a civil war with law enforcers, or are we?
12
The argument that being safe has to come at the cost of respect and civil rights is false. If it was true then how do we explain the honorable peace officers? Problem is like in every organization there are good apples and bad apples. The police are no exception to this rule. Problem with the siege mentality the police have is whenever a bad apple is found they circle the wagons to protect the bad apple. In doing this all the time it lets the bad apples fester. The bad ones got worse because they know they are protected. To hear Ray Kelly say he knows none of the officers in the Baltimore case will turn on each other for a more lenient sentence is telling. If the government could get Sammy the Bull to turn on John Gotti how could a former top cop make such a broad statement? The much talked of training as the cure all for the problem of policing in America should start at the top. The problems in the streets lay at the feet of leadership at the top. Remember the feet only follow orders from the head! Funny how we never blame the Generals for what their troops do. When the Top Cop is more interested in results the troops do their best to make him shine. In doing so they know cutting corners in the streets will be tolerated. Cameras and training will never take the place of strong leadership. As in the Bridgegate case the culture of a department comes from the corner office and works down. Is there is a Top Cop who can honestly say he is shocked by the behavior of his officers?
11
Its ironic that politicians are finding it politically advantageous to hold police officers "accountable" for their conduct. In New York, the Assembly Speaker and Majority leader of the State Senate are under indictment. Sheila Dixon, Baltimore's last Mayor was indicted on corruption charges. In Sunset Hills a suburb of St. Louis, the Mayor was recently indicted for extortion. Four of the last seven Governors of Illinois have done prison time. The senior Senator in New Jersey is under indictment. These are the people holding police officer's accountable?
3
Important to distinguish between indicted and convicted. Remember Tom DeLay.
Regardless of how the police unions behave, they should be abolished. An armed group that claims the right to follow only its own self-created internal rules is not a group of "laborers" in need of the extra bargaining power that unions provide.
12
Dear 'progressive' editor,
Your own paper showed us last week that there is no 'rash of police incidents'. They reported the data behind their conclusion. Don't you read your own paper?
I really don't mind that the Times has become TASS for the Northeast Liberal establishment. I don't even mind when you mis-report the news to suit your ideological bent, usually in support of some social cause you're selling us.
But please don't distort facts.
Your own paper showed us last week that there is no 'rash of police incidents'. They reported the data behind their conclusion. Don't you read your own paper?
I really don't mind that the Times has become TASS for the Northeast Liberal establishment. I don't even mind when you mis-report the news to suit your ideological bent, usually in support of some social cause you're selling us.
But please don't distort facts.
3
When a police officer is in public, he/she has a power that is unchecked. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" has no better testament. This does not have to translate into anything illegal and can be as evident as the attitude and tone of voice employed.
My wife and I were harassed by an officer once in Houston. The exact circumstance was not important and we were not harmed. We found out that one would have to get a letter notarized, talked to a public defender etc just to file a complaint.
I work in a hospital. There are patient comment boxes everywhere. All personal are encouraged to report anything concerning regarding to patient care and they do: I know because I have to review them. The lack of check and balance with police is problematic.
My wife and I were harassed by an officer once in Houston. The exact circumstance was not important and we were not harmed. We found out that one would have to get a letter notarized, talked to a public defender etc just to file a complaint.
I work in a hospital. There are patient comment boxes everywhere. All personal are encouraged to report anything concerning regarding to patient care and they do: I know because I have to review them. The lack of check and balance with police is problematic.
18
Well Texas is a state where that sort of behavior is tolerated or even encouraged.
Police in America are not evil. They are simply the end result of decades of poor or non-existent oversight. Of course they are desperate to avoid any oversight now, but, the irony is that civilian policing of the police and taking prosecution of local police officers out of the hands of local prosecutors would be fantastic for the police.
As long as they are seen to be above the law, then they will be held in contempt by the populace. As long as they are held in contempt by those they must police, then their jobs will be that much harder.
The police are like a child screaming about getting a shot at the doctor. The proposed reforms are good for them, and they would be wise to welcome them.
As long as they are seen to be above the law, then they will be held in contempt by the populace. As long as they are held in contempt by those they must police, then their jobs will be that much harder.
The police are like a child screaming about getting a shot at the doctor. The proposed reforms are good for them, and they would be wise to welcome them.
20
PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES DON'T NEED UNIONS! More private sector workers do, but here's the legal argument of why police unions are unjust and completely unnecessary…. Anyone sworn to public office has both a duty to that office but also protections that come with it. If you commit a crime against a police officer or civil servant in most jurisdictions (NY for sure), the penalties are defined differently and more severely than the same crime committed on a private citizen. There is legislation that makes the need for the "protections" a union provides completely unnecessary. The unions got there way and cops are treated as a privileged class under the law, so if they want to be silly enough to give away a few points of their income to enrich a few people at the top, who am I to judge - oh yeah, a taxpayer.
1
Funny that the big complaints from liberals are the aggressive police, failing schools and mass incarceration. Yet all of these things are brought to you by the Democrats unwavering support of the powerful unions representing police, teachers and corrections officers.
5
well said.
"you reap what you sow."
"you reap what you sow."
2
It is equally funny that anti-labor union Conservatives never once suggested deunionizing police departments and correctional facilities. Right-to-work states still have police unions do they not? The word I have seen associated with unions is paralysis. They are bad because they resist period. Doesn't this also apply to police and correctional officer unions? Please see this artlcle from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/15/nyregion/at-rikers-a-roadblock-to-refo...®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/15/nyregion/at-rikers-a-roadblock-to-refo...®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
2
Well if what you just asserted were actually supported by empirical evidence, I might agree. But, alas...you've strayed and delved into partisan politics where it is not welcome or appropriate or even relevant.
The practical truth is that easy use of "cellphone videos with audio" by citizens will fix this issue in the longer run. Unions can whine about policy and local elected officials can jabber to the press but cellphone videos cut thru all of that.
10
You're probably right , but it's sad, sad thing when we need this technology to catch officers committing crimes, and deter officers who would otherwise be committing crimes.
I've always felt that HIRING PRACTICES are where problems originate Those applying to be police officers should undergo very searching evaluations to determine WHY they want to join. Some truly want to be of service to the public, but others are macho or racist or given to uncontrolled anger and violence. Appropriate psychological testing can weed out those who should not be given authority over citizens.
Many veteran officers are proud that have never fired a gun because they know how to defuse situations without personality-based over-reactions.
((More female officers have non-confrontational skills than do males.)
Small police departments in Bible belt-type communities, for example, can't afford good salaries and may never have heard of psychological evaluations.
Subsidies might help -- with compliance requirements built in.
That's NOT saying that large, more affluent communities always Do It Right. The long-ago militaristic record of Los Angeles' police dept under the late Chief Parker is only one example.
It's leadership that determines objectives and practices. As the old saying goes: "A fish stinks from the head."
I've always felt that HIRING PRACTICES are where problems originate Those applying to be police officers should undergo very searching evaluations to determine WHY they want to join. Some truly want to be of service to the public, but others are macho or racist or given to uncontrolled anger and violence. Appropriate psychological testing can weed out those who should not be given authority over citizens.
Many veteran officers are proud that have never fired a gun because they know how to defuse situations without personality-based over-reactions.
((More female officers have non-confrontational skills than do males.)
Small police departments in Bible belt-type communities, for example, can't afford good salaries and may never have heard of psychological evaluations.
Subsidies might help -- with compliance requirements built in.
That's NOT saying that large, more affluent communities always Do It Right. The long-ago militaristic record of Los Angeles' police dept under the late Chief Parker is only one example.
It's leadership that determines objectives and practices. As the old saying goes: "A fish stinks from the head."
1
While reforms move forward a building backlash is moving in the opposite direction. Coddling criminals breeds riots and that urban poor are merely unregenerate shiftless idlers. Law and order generated by the general electorate that was appalled by images of looting and violence with little or no understanding of the history of the circumstances will make for more trouble. Austerity that is the constant mantra for public money has led to more unemployment of hopelessness. The politically powerless will be used as a target against state and national candidates who want to move forward on the police reform issue.
Agree, exept for the auterity comment. The US is in a spending binge, one that cannot be sustained, but politicians like to give things to people for free because of votes, and they know once given, it can't be taken easily.
We spend more on police, teachers, fireman, and the associated administrators than any other country on the planet. We spend too much.
We spend more on police, teachers, fireman, and the associated administrators than any other country on the planet. We spend too much.
1
As far as I'm concerned (and I'll hazard a guess the MAJORITY of Americans believe this) they still HOLD a 'privileged' position.
I am so sock of the minority of voices in this country pushing the MAJORITY of those who want to see police presence, pushing their agendas down my throat.
At some point, perhaps the MAJORITY (all races) will rise up and stop being told what to do.
I am so sock of the minority of voices in this country pushing the MAJORITY of those who want to see police presence, pushing their agendas down my throat.
At some point, perhaps the MAJORITY (all races) will rise up and stop being told what to do.
3
If you have a broke system, you bring in reformers to fix it. Yet as long as this broke system focused its wrath on black and brown people, too many whites were willing to shrug their shoulders and exonerate the 5% of the police department who are psychopaths, criminals, and sociopaths as long as their victims were black and brown people. Other professions have rules and regulations to weed out or at least rein in the 5+% that are dysfunctional. Then you have the police unions who really should know better to protect wayward officers no matter what level of atrocity they commit. This was a recipe for mass insurrection which we just witnessed in Baltimore. What the 90-95 % of police officers who are decent human beings should decide is how long are they going to protect that wayward 5%.
11
Justice Department to investigate the Police Department in Baltimore....
Meanwhile, 6 murders in Baltimore since last Friday.......6 dead in 4 days....all minority victims.......not a peep!
I'm sure that the investigation will prove productive.
Meanwhile, 6 murders in Baltimore since last Friday.......6 dead in 4 days....all minority victims.......not a peep!
I'm sure that the investigation will prove productive.
3
I think that the people in Baltimore feel the 6 murders you mentioned will be vigorously investigated and impartially adjudicated. They do not feel the same will apply to the police shooting of an African American.
3
While they are at it they should look into all this white on white crime in our nation. About 83 percent of all white people murdered are killed by other white people. Something has got to be done to keep these folks from performing such self destructive behavior. It's truly a pity.
3
There is no evidence for the killing of Freddie Gray. There is/are no autopsy, no labs, no ballistics, in fact besides a video (which is very weak evidence, by itself is completely unsupported by any corroborating physical evidence) no evidence exists.
1
Agree. State's Attorney in Baltimore rushed to judgment in effort for "crowd control" and political purposes. Support these charged police with your contributions. Suspended without pay. Who pays their mortgages?
http://officerdown.us/campaigns/support-baltimore-f-o-p/
http://officerdown.us/campaigns/support-baltimore-f-o-p/
1
Wrong. The coroner ruled Gray's death a homicide. I'm quite sure the coroner has plenty of lab evidence for that conclusion. And, coroners perform autopsies. So, yes there was an autopsy and yes there is forensic evidence.
Respect and trust are earned not entitled. The police lost all and any trust and respect by not rooting out those who dishonor.
8
True! But so have the minority leaders over the last decade as they enrich themselves and fight solutions that could improve live for those minorities stuck in parts of the cities that are riddled with gangs, violence, and drugs.
No one is interested in buidling a business in such an area. As seen since the 50s, those that can, leave.
Shapton and Jackson have not earned the trust of the public. Quite the contrary. Putting that aside, the looters and gangs earned no trust either. Brown didn't earn trust - he was a criminal that attacked a cop. Bad poster child for the case against police. As was Gray (or do we believe that black officers deliberately killed him? Negligently killed him?); Travon is not apart of this, but many make it so, so I'll state that millions were spent (under force from the DOJ) only to find that a jury (of peers) found Zimmerman innocent AND found no evidence of a hate crime.
Yes, respect and trust are earned; I'm waiting.
No one is interested in buidling a business in such an area. As seen since the 50s, those that can, leave.
Shapton and Jackson have not earned the trust of the public. Quite the contrary. Putting that aside, the looters and gangs earned no trust either. Brown didn't earn trust - he was a criminal that attacked a cop. Bad poster child for the case against police. As was Gray (or do we believe that black officers deliberately killed him? Negligently killed him?); Travon is not apart of this, but many make it so, so I'll state that millions were spent (under force from the DOJ) only to find that a jury (of peers) found Zimmerman innocent AND found no evidence of a hate crime.
Yes, respect and trust are earned; I'm waiting.
2
The War on Drugs has encouraged the police to see Americans like our troops would see Iraqi insurgents. The DEA and other drug-policing organizations have in the past used words like "narco-terrorism" even in the context of domestic medical marijuana operations.
A few years ago, there was a terrorist-response drill held in California where the imaginary response scenario being enacted by state and federal law enforcement agents was marijuana legalization advocates threatening to blow up Shasta Dam if a famous federal marijuana prisoner was not released.
That shows we've convinced our police that they really are at war. Over marijuana, even. We've given them military-grade equipment and convinced them they're at war. Of course they're confused now about their futures, now that we're deciding we don't want a domestic war over substance abuse anymore. Especially not over marijuana, which provides the pretext for oh so many armed police intrusions into the lives of young black men.
A few years ago, there was a terrorist-response drill held in California where the imaginary response scenario being enacted by state and federal law enforcement agents was marijuana legalization advocates threatening to blow up Shasta Dam if a famous federal marijuana prisoner was not released.
That shows we've convinced our police that they really are at war. Over marijuana, even. We've given them military-grade equipment and convinced them they're at war. Of course they're confused now about their futures, now that we're deciding we don't want a domestic war over substance abuse anymore. Especially not over marijuana, which provides the pretext for oh so many armed police intrusions into the lives of young black men.
13
Our Corporate Masters have brainwashed (there is a stronger term!) the public into accepting a permanent state of 'war" against almost everything, to keep us from looking at the real causes of crime and poverty, Result: they can go ahead making money AT NY COSTS while wrecking the environment and society for us powerless citizens.
The bought-and-sold Congress, which is interested only in getting re-elected, takes orders from the tobacco lobby, whose deadly product kills far, far more than marijuana (I am not a user) and costs taxpayers infinitely more in money and social cost.
So police are stuck with enforcing corrupt, venal laws that benefit only those shadowy entities that create and promulgate "wars" on everything they don;t want examined too closely.
The bought-and-sold Congress, which is interested only in getting re-elected, takes orders from the tobacco lobby, whose deadly product kills far, far more than marijuana (I am not a user) and costs taxpayers infinitely more in money and social cost.
So police are stuck with enforcing corrupt, venal laws that benefit only those shadowy entities that create and promulgate "wars" on everything they don;t want examined too closely.
1
When NYC police turned their backs on the mayor it turned me against them — them and all their brothers and sisters across the nation who stood with them. They turned their backs on an elected leader and in doing so turned their backs on those they were hired to protect and serve. They turned their backs on democracy. In essence, they demonstrated to me that they were, indeed, outlaws. It is time for police to understand that they are not our masters, but our servants.
20
Actually, I disagree. Why? Because I watched the nightly news when Sharpton and others walked down the streets of Manhatten with signs that said 'kill cops' and de Blasio walked right next to them, smiling. I'd have turned my back on him as well.
1
"When NYC police turned their backs on the mayor..."
And the mayor did nothing.
And the mayor did nothing.
Another negative mark against union leaders. They aren't leading.
4
Citizen review boards, an important step forward for some communities, are not enough to solve a police force's personnel problems and reestablish and nurture essential bonds between communities and their peace officers. The selection of candidates for a police force, as well as the means of and criteria for promotion, must also be addressed. A competent and respectful (and therefore respected) force must be carefully built, with advancement criteria that include, among many things, evidence of community involvement. Only an isolated, ossified force, bent on preserving its often-unearned status and privileges, benefits from advancing officers who strictly toe the fraternal line, with its spoken and unspoken rules.
The principal goal of communities and their police forces ought to be to work together to make citizen review boards obsolete.
The principal goal of communities and their police forces ought to be to work together to make citizen review boards obsolete.
6
Buried in the local section of today's paper is a story that happens to mention in the context of National Discussion of policing that we are mourning the execution of young officer today,
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/nyregion/a-national-discussion-about-p...
The officer was executed while sitting in his car by a young black man with rap sheet the length of his arm for violent crimes. If we are going to completely ignore the reality of violence in the black community then all of this conversation about policing will come to nothing.
Support President Obama in his My Brothers Keeper program.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/nyregion/a-national-discussion-about-p...
The officer was executed while sitting in his car by a young black man with rap sheet the length of his arm for violent crimes. If we are going to completely ignore the reality of violence in the black community then all of this conversation about policing will come to nothing.
Support President Obama in his My Brothers Keeper program.
1
This is a problem bigger than just some police. The problems you see with bad policing is just a symptom of an entire criminal justice system that is broken. It is just now, after 40 years of over criminalization of any social problem (drugs are just part of it) , mandatory minimum sentencing, prosecutors who are not after justice -- just wins and losses, and judges that are subject to election pressures, that more Americans are waking up to the fact that we have a huge problem on our hands. How can we possibly justify what we have done?
4
Given the reflexive, automatic defense of members on the part of most teacher and police unions, regardless of the merits of the case, I have completely lost faith in these unions. As a former union member myself, even I am surprised at this turn of events. I have seen too many times, where drunk or incompetent teachers have been protected by their union, at the expense of children. We have all seen union reactions to the police murders in Ferguson, Staten Island, Baltimore, etc., (lets call them what they are!) at the expense of the public. These unions are more interested in self-preservation than upholding the standards to which their members should be held. This has got to stop. I believe both teacher and police unions should be outlawed.
2
All people, no matter their race, creed, orientation, location (city or suburb) deserves to be safe and free from the fear of assault and/or crime. The police have been tasked with the job of making this happen. I, for one, understand this incredibly difficult task they face on a daily basis. While there are isolated incidents of problems, let us not forget to look at the big picture – we want our parents, brothers, sisters, friends, and strangers to be safe, and the areas where we work, live and play to be free from crime. This is what we ask our police to make happen all over our country on a daily basis. This is no small feat and is deserving of our respect.
2
"– we want our parents, brothers, sisters, friends, and strangers to be safe,"
Black families want to be safe too. Sending so many black males to jail is not keeping you safe. It is causing a major back lash which you are now witnessing.
Black families want to be safe too. Sending so many black males to jail is not keeping you safe. It is causing a major back lash which you are now witnessing.
1
"Respect is something you have to have in order to get" Cool Hand Luke
4
Well it's about time these unions were kicked off their pedestal. I'm waiting for a "Nixon goes to China" moment from a police union. We'll see. As for Lynch in NYC, he was totally out of step, probably due to upcoming union elections. He pulled back I presume after the public was outraged over union actions. FWIW he could use a makeover. He'll never win anyone over with that look.
4
The police are as good as the men and women that populate their ranks and the culture of their milieu. As well, the police in the United States are deployed by our elected representatives, all of whom are placed into power by the citizens. Thus the police are us. And we are nation of the estranged. So it's no surprise that our rights are systematically violated, that.our freedoms are withdrawn and our property seized by the state on behalf of the greedy and malevolent. Government is the biggest corporate business in the United States and corporations are unalloyed psychopathic actors. If we can't bomb some poor folks overseas we can always attack ourselves and make money doing so.
4
I think the take away from the article is not the actions of a few policemen but the role of the police unions in stopping any meaningful actions to address problems. This seems to be a surprise to the Progressives or at least put them in a hypocritical position while they lament the decline of unions in the economy. The reality is the action of the police unions is consistent with the actions of any union; protect jobs and resist any meaningful change. A union behaves like a union no matter the job description.
3
Your anti-union screed rings hollow. Industrial relations in the US are disproportionately skewed in favor of management, thanks to vigorous anti-union lobbying in Congress, and fervent antagonism from Republicans stretching back decades. The result is the US unions are far and away the weakest of every major industrialized nation.
All of this as a backdrop to say that many of the grievances aired by American unions are fair as they begin negotiations from a position of disproportionate weakness. This is clearly not the case with police unions, which, as the article clearly and accurately points out, have enjoyed the support of the larger public and the support, if not acquiescence of local, state and federal lawmakers.
The outsized influence of the police unions is directly responsible for some of the problems we see now with policing. When you have members who are protected from oversight on account of the direct actions/policies of union leadership, they are emboldened to become a law unto themselves, acting with impunity for lack of any real consequences for their abuses. Enough is enough.
All of this as a backdrop to say that many of the grievances aired by American unions are fair as they begin negotiations from a position of disproportionate weakness. This is clearly not the case with police unions, which, as the article clearly and accurately points out, have enjoyed the support of the larger public and the support, if not acquiescence of local, state and federal lawmakers.
The outsized influence of the police unions is directly responsible for some of the problems we see now with policing. When you have members who are protected from oversight on account of the direct actions/policies of union leadership, they are emboldened to become a law unto themselves, acting with impunity for lack of any real consequences for their abuses. Enough is enough.
I don't understand why police are so against additional oversight. Just like any officer would say to us, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
18
police unions are just like teacher unions, they believe that it is their god given right to have their job forever....even if they are bad employees.
i like the donald trump employee rule on bad employees: 'your fired!'
i like the donald trump employee rule on bad employees: 'your fired!'
4
The police are a mirror of the population they both serve and oppress. The police do what they are told, both explicitly and implicitly. Fight the "war" on drugs, keep the bums and vagrants out of tourist areas, pacify the gentrifying parts of the inner cities. Suit up like Special Operations soldiers and treat the people like the enemy. Accept no displays of contempt. A lack of respect/fear on the part of those you confront endangers you. When you ride through a city in an MRAP how do you not intuit that you are at war with the people outside the bullet/bomb proof glass?
We directed more counter-insurgency effort in Afghanistan than in Bmore.
Why does every cop wear sunglasses no matter the day? It's not about service or connection, it's about intimidation.
We directed more counter-insurgency effort in Afghanistan than in Bmore.
Why does every cop wear sunglasses no matter the day? It's not about service or connection, it's about intimidation.
9
They wear sunglasses to hide eyes that are made drunk red, intoxicated by their power over the weak and the defenseless. Every cop should have at least a two-year associates degree with requirements in three areas of study: Constitutional Law, English Literature, and World History. If they become decent students of human history, they MIGHT be less likely to abuse other human beings. At the very least, they will benefit from the experience of having classmates who come from other ethnic and economic backgrounds. Even better, majority of honest, kind, and courageous cops who seek such education MIGHT be less likely to "remain silent" when they witness the kind of lawlessness evidenced by that taser-planting cop in North Charleston, that Elderly Weekend Volunteer Cop in Oklahoma, and those cruel cops in Baltimore who looked away while a young man struggled in the back of paddy wagon with a broken neck. Take off their sunglasses. Put them back in blue uniforms. Open their minds. Perhaps citizens can regain more trust and respect for cops when we can us look THEM in the eye and see ourselves in the reflection.
1
There is absolutely no doubt that I have sought help from police many times and received without hesitation. I have also been aggressivly questioned by police after coming out of a bar for no other reason than the fact that I was there for long time (Bama game.) I have never been charged for anything except couple of minor traffic vilations. I am bvery thankful of of my police-interactions, especially when I compare experiences in some countries where calling the police after small theft is dicouraged.
Yet, I am thoroughly dis-heartened when I read the stories of systematic police brutality by Officer Burgess of Chicago to force false confessions; thought that depiction of local sheriff being part of conspiracy in "Mississippi Burning" arrest of three kids enrolling for vote was true, and many many such isolated cases. I do not recall one instance, when the union for police came out and issued a public apology.
I know I have been well served by the police, but I also wonder why is zero tolerance - expected of the kids - not expected from our esteemed police?
Yet, I am thoroughly dis-heartened when I read the stories of systematic police brutality by Officer Burgess of Chicago to force false confessions; thought that depiction of local sheriff being part of conspiracy in "Mississippi Burning" arrest of three kids enrolling for vote was true, and many many such isolated cases. I do not recall one instance, when the union for police came out and issued a public apology.
I know I have been well served by the police, but I also wonder why is zero tolerance - expected of the kids - not expected from our esteemed police?
4
Could it be this country has become a paranoid, security-obsessed, pro-gun, pro-military, us vs. them, winner-take-all, economically unjust, class-based perversion of democracy? Didn't we condone torture in the name of national security? How many trillions of dollars of war have we unleashed on the world and how many millions of people have we killed or maimed in the process? Maybe, just maybe, overly aggressive policing is a symptom and we have to dig a bit deeper into our collective souls for the root cause. I hate to be a downer so, hey, keep voting for lower taxes and let the good times roll!
11
Privileged for what? To be good public servants trying to take care of everyone equally, or privileged to kill at random anyone they just don't like the looks of.
If Police Unions believe their own rhetoric, why do they resist open and transparent oversight. If they are as upright and noble as they claim there should be no problem, right?
8
Police misconduct is not new, nor is their frequent mistreatment of people perceived as of low status, especially when race is involved. That these problems have always been with us is no excuse for their continuation, or for the knee-jerk excuses offered by police officials, many politicians, and the conservative right.
Many officers are conscientious and law abiding, and no one doubts that some, at least occasionally, face real danger. There are, however, a significant number whose default attitude is authoritarian and aggressive, and who respond harshly to any perceived lack of "respect." Insofar as possible, this personality type needs to be weeded out at the recruitment stage. Police need regular training in how to deal appropriately with members of the public, and those who fail to do so should be disciplined appropriately. Leadership comes from the top down, and high police officials should be held to account for misconduct by members of their force.
The current rash of incidents is exacerbated by the growing militarization of many police forces and frequent recruitment of ex-service members seeking another environment that offers a sense of power, strong camaraderie and occasional adrenaline rushes. Attitudes that may be psychologically appropriate in combat are, however, often dysfunctional in a civilian environment. No member of the public, even a perceived offender, should be viewed as an enemy "other" deserving of contempt, mistreatment or death.
Many officers are conscientious and law abiding, and no one doubts that some, at least occasionally, face real danger. There are, however, a significant number whose default attitude is authoritarian and aggressive, and who respond harshly to any perceived lack of "respect." Insofar as possible, this personality type needs to be weeded out at the recruitment stage. Police need regular training in how to deal appropriately with members of the public, and those who fail to do so should be disciplined appropriately. Leadership comes from the top down, and high police officials should be held to account for misconduct by members of their force.
The current rash of incidents is exacerbated by the growing militarization of many police forces and frequent recruitment of ex-service members seeking another environment that offers a sense of power, strong camaraderie and occasional adrenaline rushes. Attitudes that may be psychologically appropriate in combat are, however, often dysfunctional in a civilian environment. No member of the public, even a perceived offender, should be viewed as an enemy "other" deserving of contempt, mistreatment or death.
4
With compensation payments into the billions now across the country for a wide variety of unacceptable behaviour and results why don't we have a right to demand that part of the money come from the Unions or the Pension Funds? I think this would go a long way. Imagine standing by while Garner was chocked, arrested and left to suffocate knowing it would effect you and all your "brothers" because you did nothing.
6
I think any rational citizen will acknowledge that police are a necessary evil. But I can't remember a city I've lived in (NYC, SF, Chicago, Oakland), where the police weren't actively and continually seeking to recruit eligible young men and women to join the force. If they really want to make a difference, perhaps some of the more vociferous critics of law enforcement posting here should put their money where their mouths are, join the their local police force, and change the system from the inside. Too old? Encourage your children to do so.
New York's Patrick Lynch, the police union chief, and all the other police union chiefs throughout the country are betrayers of the people. They are sworn as incoming officers to protect and serve the people in the community, not the other police officers they work with.
Like a medical doctor who takes a hypocratic oath to tend to all people who are are in need of medical attention, men like Lynch should be brought up for treason as they have consistantly and blindly stood up for those co-workers that work counter to the will of the people.
Like a medical doctor who takes a hypocratic oath to tend to all people who are are in need of medical attention, men like Lynch should be brought up for treason as they have consistantly and blindly stood up for those co-workers that work counter to the will of the people.
2
For all those who say it's a thankless job, it's also a very well paid one in many places. Along with a good (not great) salary, police get tremendous pensions and health benefits. Their "unassailable political position" helped maintain and increase those benefits at the cost of the taxpayers and in some cases in California, nearly bankrupted municipalities. Weak governors such as Christie and Scott Walker would go after teachers' unions and their benefits, but never had the fortitude or backbone to take similar steps against police unions. Maybe that "privilege" will fall by the wayside as well.
52
Like teachers, police are public servants, but until very recently, only teachers were assailed for being responsible for all the ills in society. If you believe Chris Christie, teachers even caused the economic meltdown of a few years ago. Nobody in his right mind would argue that all police officers are bad, but as recent events that have been reported (who knows how many have never seen the light of day), people of color are regarded differently by the cops than most other groups. if the cops are doing their jobs correctly, oversight will only confirm this assertion. Good cops should welcome this oversight.
I have been on a police union board and I have never known a police union, or any union, to enjoy any "unassailable political position". In places such as Wisconsin the anti-union tactics of their governor are part of a divide and conquer strategy. The private sector unions are in bad shape, most of the public sector unions are being attacked, and if those unions are busted the police and fire unions will be next.
It is interesting to note where police unions, generally, fit into the struggles within modern American partisan politics.
Police unions are singular among organized labor in the United States in that their members and leaders are predominately politically conservative and that they are more likely to be members of the Republican Party.
Note well how in Wisconsin, when the Republican governor there moved to restrain public worker unions he exempted police unions from those changes.
Police officers, as so for any group of Americans, have rights to organize, collectively bargain, electioneer, etc. But know that they, by and large, have allied themselves, or even become a part of, a segment of the American political market -- the Republican Party and 'conservatism' -- that has since the election of Bill Clinton in 1992, become more and more extreme and ideological.
Instead of getting caught up in changes in American politics, it may well be that police unions are actually at the vanguard of change -- where the brittle and useless brand of authoritarian extremism that has hijacked the Republican Party shows its limits, its incompetence and its ultimate failure.
Out of this will arise, we hope, police unions that drop their antagonism, and make their entire mission about selfless service to the most vulnerable.
Police unions are singular among organized labor in the United States in that their members and leaders are predominately politically conservative and that they are more likely to be members of the Republican Party.
Note well how in Wisconsin, when the Republican governor there moved to restrain public worker unions he exempted police unions from those changes.
Police officers, as so for any group of Americans, have rights to organize, collectively bargain, electioneer, etc. But know that they, by and large, have allied themselves, or even become a part of, a segment of the American political market -- the Republican Party and 'conservatism' -- that has since the election of Bill Clinton in 1992, become more and more extreme and ideological.
Instead of getting caught up in changes in American politics, it may well be that police unions are actually at the vanguard of change -- where the brittle and useless brand of authoritarian extremism that has hijacked the Republican Party shows its limits, its incompetence and its ultimate failure.
Out of this will arise, we hope, police unions that drop their antagonism, and make their entire mission about selfless service to the most vulnerable.
4
A friend who is a city attorney told me: if the cops weren't the cops they'd be the criminals.
Checks and balances, and stop the ridiculous arbitrary
Illegalization of drugs.
Checks and balances, and stop the ridiculous arbitrary
Illegalization of drugs.
9
Here in Albuquerque the police are partly trained at federal military combat simulation facility on Kirtland Air Force Base a few miles south of town. Some pretty good local reporting is suggesting that this could be a big part of why our police department is extraordinarily violent. Apparently DOJ agrees and is making some noise locally too. Citizens of the United States of America are not "the enemy" and I cannot fathom why we train police to think so.
54
Because they might have to face terrorists armed with assault rifles while all they have is a pistol?
Of course we police use excessive force; you saw what 'equivalent force' did for us in Vietnam. When we cops go into a bar fight or riot situation, it's a fight. When I win, the 'suspect' simply says, "I give up," and the fight is over and the arrest is made. If the other guy wins, I get kicked to death. Next time you got trouble, handle it yourself.
One must ask the role of law enforcement in general, the stopping of motorists in pouring rain for taillight issues vs. the long-term pursuit of a theft ring operating with zero scrutiny. Or other examples of drug dealers operating freely vs. apprehending minors on drug possession charges.
These examples create issues, which are rarely addresssed
These examples create issues, which are rarely addresssed
1
There IS a place for Police Officers that do not respect the Constitution and the Rights and Freedoms of the individual - it's called Russia. Round 'em up and ship 'em out...
2
As far as I see, this is the "pendulum swinging" in the other direction. First, cops could do on wrong. Now, they can do no right. People on both sides of the argument make all sorts of allegations, but are quite willing to completely ignore facts while doing so. It is clear to me that the previous pendulum motion has resulted in police officers who feel they can get away with anything as seen in the recent Walter Scott case. At the same time, those rioting against the police in Ferguson, ignore all factual evidence showing Michael Brown was on the streets committing crimes, and begging for trouble to come his way.
As a society, we are far more prone to believe those that claim police violence. I believe that facts back up that is a good thing. But vilifying every police officer, putting them in no win situations and expecting a good outcome, expecting them to solve racial inequities and poverty is not.
As a society, we are far more prone to believe those that claim police violence. I believe that facts back up that is a good thing. But vilifying every police officer, putting them in no win situations and expecting a good outcome, expecting them to solve racial inequities and poverty is not.
12
John,
Let's not let the police play the victim card! Brown is such a bad example: he committed three felonies in less than an hour. The Eric Garner case and the Fred Grey case come closer to the mark in explaining why police deserve careful scrutiny. And, by the way, the men who filmed these misadventures risked being targeted by these same self-righteous police. The guy who filmed Eric Garner was hounded by police and is now in jail on trumped up charges.
We're not vilifying police. We are questioning their motives, integrity, and worth to society. Do we really need a blue goon squad?
Let's not let the police play the victim card! Brown is such a bad example: he committed three felonies in less than an hour. The Eric Garner case and the Fred Grey case come closer to the mark in explaining why police deserve careful scrutiny. And, by the way, the men who filmed these misadventures risked being targeted by these same self-righteous police. The guy who filmed Eric Garner was hounded by police and is now in jail on trumped up charges.
We're not vilifying police. We are questioning their motives, integrity, and worth to society. Do we really need a blue goon squad?
2
"Jeff Roorda, a spokesman for the union, said that once it became clear that the Board of Aldermen was determined to give the oversight board investigative authority, rather than simply review powers, the union felt it was better to save its reservations for a future legal challenge.
'It put us in a tough spot, to tip our hand about what our legal objections were, telling them how to write legislation within the legal parameters,' Mr. Roorda said. The measure will become law this week."
Kinda says it all.
'It put us in a tough spot, to tip our hand about what our legal objections were, telling them how to write legislation within the legal parameters,' Mr. Roorda said. The measure will become law this week."
Kinda says it all.
8
As citizens in the land we too have a responsibility to have good local policing. I live in a neighborhood where there is a snowball's chance of a police officer - or fireman or teacher or a nurse for that matter - could afford the housing. I'd be willing for my taxes to subsidize these public servants so that they can be mandated to be a part of every community that they serve.
For our poorer communities I'd be willing to pay to bring the schools up to snuff and give a premium to the public servants so they'd be incentivized to live and work in the community.
For our poorer communities I'd be willing to pay to bring the schools up to snuff and give a premium to the public servants so they'd be incentivized to live and work in the community.
10
Unfortunately you are a member of the minority, a super minority if you will. Most of the folks complaining about police officers would never even think about risking their lives as police officers and fireman do every day.
1
"The union, Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 3, has responded with open resistance to Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake’s proposals to make it easier to remove misbehaving police officers,"
Once again unions are proving to be nothing less than a way for its leaders to strong-arm adversaries. It wants to police its own members? Or does its leaders want to protect mostly themselves? Mz Mosby is black, young, and attractive. She is the epitome of a minority figure being elected to a position of immense power. Yea for the little person! Now she is going gangbusters going gangbusters against those she claimed to support--the little people who unionize for protection from thugs like her. The irony is sweet.
Once again unions are proving to be nothing less than a way for its leaders to strong-arm adversaries. It wants to police its own members? Or does its leaders want to protect mostly themselves? Mz Mosby is black, young, and attractive. She is the epitome of a minority figure being elected to a position of immense power. Yea for the little person! Now she is going gangbusters going gangbusters against those she claimed to support--the little people who unionize for protection from thugs like her. The irony is sweet.
4
“[The Mayor] seems to suggest that the blame lies elsewhere, when the buck should stop with the mayor, always,” [police union leader ] Mr. O’Donnell said.
“She’s been there five years. The thing is an institutional disaster. It’s your institution.”
And you're the people of Baltimore's police department.
The people elected her, and pay your salary. If your members don't like doing what the people want, tell them to look for greener pastures.
“She’s been there five years. The thing is an institutional disaster. It’s your institution.”
And you're the people of Baltimore's police department.
The people elected her, and pay your salary. If your members don't like doing what the people want, tell them to look for greener pastures.
8
I guess police work does attract the gun ho types, the ones that believe that abusing their authority is OK if they think is justified. But beware, the eye on the telephone is watching and recording you. Technology at the service of the citizenry.
4
Well, you could always join a police department and show them how it's done!
If crime rises the pendulum may swing the other way. The press have been against the police and in some of the cases such as ferguson the cops were justified.
If criminals get the upper hand society loses.
If criminals get the upper hand society loses.
5
But violent crime is going down.
2
The police in Ferguson, Mo., were not justified in the long well-documented record of unconstitutional arrests -- and the illegal and confiscatory fines and forfeitures that flowed from them.
1
More policing, not more police.
2
All I can say is it is about time.
While I have met many professional and courteous police officers, on balance the majority I have dealt with in my lifetime have been abusive of their power, and I say this as a white professional.
I've had my car illegally searched for absolutely NO reason at a traffic stop (something I will never again permit).
I've been detained and effectively harassed based on a passing resemblance to a potential suspect (never mind the six other professionals who could immediately vouch for my whereabouts if the lazy officer had bother to ask).
I've had a gun pulled on me and been screamed and sworn at a traffic stop for no reason other than holding my registration and driver's license in front of me (still hard for me to believe).
I've been told by a cop that he could take me in and arrest me for any reason whatsoever without even probable cause based on trumped up facts (i.e. lies).
I had a female cop tell me her male colleagues would have beaten me up for daring to ask why I was pulled over (for having a taillight out!).
In short, for my experience, police consistently and routinely abuse their power and their position.
All of this as a white professional ivy-league educated guy.
I can only imagine what a poor unemployed black kid has to go through.
How many times have I been similarly harassed by a black man? Zero.
In choosing between who is a thug, I'd say the police win hands down.
While I have met many professional and courteous police officers, on balance the majority I have dealt with in my lifetime have been abusive of their power, and I say this as a white professional.
I've had my car illegally searched for absolutely NO reason at a traffic stop (something I will never again permit).
I've been detained and effectively harassed based on a passing resemblance to a potential suspect (never mind the six other professionals who could immediately vouch for my whereabouts if the lazy officer had bother to ask).
I've had a gun pulled on me and been screamed and sworn at a traffic stop for no reason other than holding my registration and driver's license in front of me (still hard for me to believe).
I've been told by a cop that he could take me in and arrest me for any reason whatsoever without even probable cause based on trumped up facts (i.e. lies).
I had a female cop tell me her male colleagues would have beaten me up for daring to ask why I was pulled over (for having a taillight out!).
In short, for my experience, police consistently and routinely abuse their power and their position.
All of this as a white professional ivy-league educated guy.
I can only imagine what a poor unemployed black kid has to go through.
How many times have I been similarly harassed by a black man? Zero.
In choosing between who is a thug, I'd say the police win hands down.
32
Unfortunately, as it happens time and time again, and Police Unions and Firemen Unions commonly have done, rather than protect not only their members, but newcomers, other workers, and the customer/taxpayer, Unions have become exploitative organizations that extract unwarranted moneys from city and state budgets --yes, the work is dangerous, but accountability and a sense of decency in terms of perks and benefits also needs to be respected.
7
The liberal media, including the Times, has launched a crusade against the police and engaged in reporting the fiction that there is what amounts to a police conspiracy against certain communities. This is so incredibly destructive that it will be hard to quantify the damage caused by the media's overt hatred of law enforcement and it's rationalization of mob violence under the guise of political protest or "unrest" as the media euphemistically describes the riots to avoid offending the criminals' and their media and academic allies' delicate sensibilities. Simply put, the Times should be ashamed of hit pieces such as this and perhaps do a little reporting on the violence and rampant criminality in the relevant communities that dwarves instances of police brutality and is likely often the catalyst for such events.
6
It would be hard to do 'hit pieces' if there wasn't so much of this happening all over the country.
1
Police brutality is the equal of government tyranny.
It is an American Tradition to fight tyranny in all its forms -- including illegal and unconstitutional actions by police.
Only a supporter of such tyranny would call US Constitution-based objections to illegal arrests and other tyrannical government behaviors mere 'delicate sensibilities.'
It is an American Tradition to fight tyranny in all its forms -- including illegal and unconstitutional actions by police.
Only a supporter of such tyranny would call US Constitution-based objections to illegal arrests and other tyrannical government behaviors mere 'delicate sensibilities.'
2
A Black guy Looking a policeman in the eye and then running away is your idea of rampant criminality?
Good thing you are not a cop. Or maybe you are.
Good thing you are not a cop. Or maybe you are.
1
Perhaps the main reason that the public supports police reform and greater oversight is that the public sees videos of police misconduct. If you see a man being shot in back by a policeman who seems to be doctoring evidence to defend his actions, you might think, "Gee, that man could have been me." You're not going to think, "We can trust the police. They don't need oversight."
22
I'm not sure I would be running from the police. You?
I am generally in support of the Police and I recognize what a difficult & dangerous job it is.
I was returning from Jersey at about 10pm on a cold Saturday night. I was nicely dressed. I attempted to enter the PATH station at Exchange Place but it was taped off. I went around to what appeared to be an open entrance when suddenly I was startled by a police siren. Turning quickly I was blinded by a flashlight shining in my face from a police car parked at the curb. The officer was alone & seated in the car and he motioned me to come over by flicking his flashlight. I walked over to the Port Authority police car and before I could open my mouth I was greeted with: "Get your ass moving...this station is closed.....now get going".......Go where I inquired?... "Catch the train at Grove Street". I was stunned by the rudeness & the aggressiveness coming from this young officer. I am 67 years old and definitely pose no threat to anyone and so I was curious as to why anyone would speak to anyone else in that manner.....especially coming from a public servant. And so, I responded by saying: "I would be glad to go to Grove Street but you have to do only one thing.....you have to ask me nicely". Well, you can imagine how quickly this conversation went downhill from there to the point where I informed the officer that my hands were empty & clearly visible. The officer just having a bad day perhaps? Or is this the way the general public is now supposed to be addressed by the police?
I was returning from Jersey at about 10pm on a cold Saturday night. I was nicely dressed. I attempted to enter the PATH station at Exchange Place but it was taped off. I went around to what appeared to be an open entrance when suddenly I was startled by a police siren. Turning quickly I was blinded by a flashlight shining in my face from a police car parked at the curb. The officer was alone & seated in the car and he motioned me to come over by flicking his flashlight. I walked over to the Port Authority police car and before I could open my mouth I was greeted with: "Get your ass moving...this station is closed.....now get going".......Go where I inquired?... "Catch the train at Grove Street". I was stunned by the rudeness & the aggressiveness coming from this young officer. I am 67 years old and definitely pose no threat to anyone and so I was curious as to why anyone would speak to anyone else in that manner.....especially coming from a public servant. And so, I responded by saying: "I would be glad to go to Grove Street but you have to do only one thing.....you have to ask me nicely". Well, you can imagine how quickly this conversation went downhill from there to the point where I informed the officer that my hands were empty & clearly visible. The officer just having a bad day perhaps? Or is this the way the general public is now supposed to be addressed by the police?
22
There is far too much ignorance about the history of policing in America to inform any meaningful conversation about the current problems with America's police forces.
People like to entertain nostalgic ideas about the friendly cop walking the beat, with a blue uniform with shiny buttons. I remember these kinds of cops from when I was a kid. What people forget is that back in the 1950s and 1960s, if you confronted or resisted a cop, you could expect as a matter of course to get a good thumping. Right or wrong, this was accepted practice. Most of the modern trappings of police work -- semiautomatic hsndguns, bullet proof vests, tasers, pepper spray, military fatigue uniforms, and all the rest -- simply were not needed, as by and large, criminals feared the police. Most of this began to change in the late 1960s as crime and disorder, perpetrated by a bolder and more brazen breed of criminal, began to emerge. Changing social, cultural, and political forces have resulted in police forces which have increasingly been adopting a professional posture based on defense rather than of service. We the American people are just as responsible as the police themselves for this development. I fully anticipate a gradual withdrawal of police from inner city neighborhoods if the current anti-police wave continues. We may wind up with inner city neighborhoods which are "no-go" zones for police (think the favelas of Brazil, or the banlieues of France).
People like to entertain nostalgic ideas about the friendly cop walking the beat, with a blue uniform with shiny buttons. I remember these kinds of cops from when I was a kid. What people forget is that back in the 1950s and 1960s, if you confronted or resisted a cop, you could expect as a matter of course to get a good thumping. Right or wrong, this was accepted practice. Most of the modern trappings of police work -- semiautomatic hsndguns, bullet proof vests, tasers, pepper spray, military fatigue uniforms, and all the rest -- simply were not needed, as by and large, criminals feared the police. Most of this began to change in the late 1960s as crime and disorder, perpetrated by a bolder and more brazen breed of criminal, began to emerge. Changing social, cultural, and political forces have resulted in police forces which have increasingly been adopting a professional posture based on defense rather than of service. We the American people are just as responsible as the police themselves for this development. I fully anticipate a gradual withdrawal of police from inner city neighborhoods if the current anti-police wave continues. We may wind up with inner city neighborhoods which are "no-go" zones for police (think the favelas of Brazil, or the banlieues of France).
4
That nostalgic 'good thumping' from the police was in violation of the US Constitution.
All of us in this country, Maximillian included, have a choice to make -- do they wish to scratch out the Bill of Rights in exchange for the myth that harsh policing makes us safer, or do they support our US Constitution and insist, as the Founders did, that government that must respect the rights of citizens AND suspects, makes all good people safer (and freer).
All of us in this country, Maximillian included, have a choice to make -- do they wish to scratch out the Bill of Rights in exchange for the myth that harsh policing makes us safer, or do they support our US Constitution and insist, as the Founders did, that government that must respect the rights of citizens AND suspects, makes all good people safer (and freer).
3
The Bratton/Kelling "Broken Windows" concept of eliminating the small behavioral elements, gang grouping on corners, window washers, street people, petty crime to reduce overall crime has worked, but it harasses people for non-criminal activity where the culture is rife with those activities. Stop that and the crime rate soars back to where it was. It is axiomatic that most of the police are where most of the crime occurs. Many rich suburban areas have few cops per capita. Crime is at an all-time low, even in formerly bad places. You don't have to like cops, but do you like crime more?
7
"You don't have to like cops, but do you like crime more?" is proposition based on sideways logic.
The number of stories on this post about police behavior that goes against its own code is the best answer to your false dichotomy. 'Guilty until proven innocent' as well as 'intimidation first' as first principles are not compatible with 'protect and serve'.
The number of stories on this post about police behavior that goes against its own code is the best answer to your false dichotomy. 'Guilty until proven innocent' as well as 'intimidation first' as first principles are not compatible with 'protect and serve'.
4
That's exacrtly the issue. If a cop follows policy and takes down a person for a minor act, it escalates as quickly and as dangerously as if that person was in the process of committing a major crime, and the results are increasingly bad for everyone. The policy forces the action. Change to the Northwestern patrol mode, where cops just cruise around until something happens is an option, and the result was New York before Giulliani/Bratton/Kelling. If course it's bad, and pushes cops over the edge, then everyone in the neighborhood.
Maybe if the older cops had of taught the younger ones better things would be better. Where the police are in the mind of the public is not because of new behavior it is not because of new trends in police tactics. These have been the tactics passed down from one generation of police to the other. It’s SOP, standard operating procedure that has been implemented for years. It’s called a rough ride in Baltimore and a tune up in New York. City kids know if you make a cop run after you and you are caught you become eligible for a tune up. Police culture hasn't changed what has changed is technology. What has changed is a report can lie but our eyes don't. We don't let high voltage lineman run wild because they bring us the power for our homes and hospitals. BLS say lineman have one of the top dangerous jobs in America. No one wants to see any officer hurt or killed and those who do should suffer all that society has at its disposal. On the other hand police need to learn that same thing about the people they serve. It’s time for the good cops to get some real backbone and step up to the plate and ostracize the rogue cops. They need to tell them it’s no longer business as usual. They need to tell them the days of looking the other way is gone. When you are in a hole the best advice is to stop digging. The problem is not the beat cop the problem is his boss. Lack of true leadership will not be solved by more training. Training should be from the top down not from the bottom up.
11
Excellent comment.
Are the police feeling privileged or powerful? You can look at this two ways. The police have the power to enforce and the privilege to serve. It might be better to emphasize the privilege to serve.
Voltaire has a great quote that is somewhat applicable in this situation.
"With great power comes great responsibility. "
Voltaire has a great quote that is somewhat applicable in this situation.
"With great power comes great responsibility. "
9
"With great power..." quote... Either Voltaire or Uncle Ben from Spiderman...
Soldiers, police, janitors, and programmers.. should all be treated with the same amount of respect and privilege -- none more than the other.
Mindless and almost reflexive praising and privilege afforded to soldiers justifies every war, and to the police every killing.
They know the risks. They know the pay. It is voluntary. Sounds like any other job to me.
When there is a draft, I will change my mind.
Mindless and almost reflexive praising and privilege afforded to soldiers justifies every war, and to the police every killing.
They know the risks. They know the pay. It is voluntary. Sounds like any other job to me.
When there is a draft, I will change my mind.
15
I worked on the South Side of Chicago for several years in the aughts, right next to the old, infamously dangerous Robert Taylor Homes. Driving through at night, I would often notice that the building entrance lights would be out, and people, often old women with shopping carts or children, were forced to navigate groups of young men invariably lurking out front. I remember asking my (African American) boss “why don’t they fix the lights”, to which he replied “Oh, they do, but the dealers just bust them out again so the cops can’t see what’s going on.
In my own West Side neighborhood, there were frequently street shrines to shooting victims, much like the ones I saw near my house when I moved to East Oakland a few years later.
All of which is to say that, yes, crime is down. But all y’al writing from your safe enclaves in Boulder or San Francisco, there were still over 400 homicides in Chicago last year, 328 in NYC, 304 in Detroit, and that is just the murders. Of course Crips and Bloods and BGF members in Baltimore joined together to protest the police. They are engaged in criminal activity and, more even than each other, the “po po” are their traditional enemy.
Just remember, there are a whole lot of people of color who live in neighborhoods terrorized (and that is not hyperbole) by crime. The police may be imperfect, but they are the only bulwark those people have right now. For their sake, we should think long and hard before embarking on any wholesale reform effort.
In my own West Side neighborhood, there were frequently street shrines to shooting victims, much like the ones I saw near my house when I moved to East Oakland a few years later.
All of which is to say that, yes, crime is down. But all y’al writing from your safe enclaves in Boulder or San Francisco, there were still over 400 homicides in Chicago last year, 328 in NYC, 304 in Detroit, and that is just the murders. Of course Crips and Bloods and BGF members in Baltimore joined together to protest the police. They are engaged in criminal activity and, more even than each other, the “po po” are their traditional enemy.
Just remember, there are a whole lot of people of color who live in neighborhoods terrorized (and that is not hyperbole) by crime. The police may be imperfect, but they are the only bulwark those people have right now. For their sake, we should think long and hard before embarking on any wholesale reform effort.
27
But what of those people when they have to fear both the predators and the police?
Even more reason for reform in my opinion!
Even more reason for reform in my opinion!
2
Are the police important? Yes. But if they are the "only bulwark" against crime in the Southside of Chicago -- which I find to be a doubtful proposition -- why is that? Would you say that about your own neighborhood? Why, for instance, doesn't Chicago try to find lights that can't be blown out with guns or rocks and find the budget to install them? You can't spend decades disinvesting from a community, and in the case of Chicago, willfully segregating it through the construction of strategically placed highways, and more recently closing schools that operate within that community, and then decide the only thing you owe the citizens who live there as a "bulwark" against crime is the most expansive opportunity possible to arrest the young men who live there. As if they aren't related to the women and children who also live there.
3
Mr. Baldwin,
You are exactly correct sir.
You are exactly correct sir.
1
We live in a police state. If people are finally starting to notice, and push back, then good.
10
They have only themselves to blame. Start dealing with the rogue, racist and mentally unstable cops and maybe things will change. Police yourselves and stop getting defensive whenever someone criticizes you. Change must come from within the ranks or things will continue to get worse.
15
Live long enough like I have and you see this come and go. Police have to be checked every so often re corruption etc. But, America is a huge country awash in guns. We get the police forces that we deserve. Blame it on us, not the police departments.
1
It is more then reforming police, the legal process needs more scrutiny - big time criminals and corrupt police easily get expensive legal representation - instantaneously - the pedestrian pays or mortgage their homes to pay legal cost. "Fix the problems not the blame."
2
Many attribute the decline in crime to the enorcement of smaller quality of life laws. The argument goes that in upholding all laws citizens get the message that there is order and that they will be held accountable for their actions.
The police have blatantly chosen not to apply this same philosophy to themselves. All you have to do is walk by a police precinct in NYC and you'll see many, many, personal cars illegally parked with police placards in the windows. A few years ago when a few police officers were charged with ILLEGALLY fixing tickets for friends and family of the force the head of the police union stood up and openly stated that the union perceived it as a police right to help those that support them (despite the fact that this is not in their contract). The list of petty infractions of course goes on. Perhaps if the broken laws/regulations were enforced vigorously the police culture would not be one of perceived impunity and the uber bad apples would not cross the line in more significant ways.
The police have blatantly chosen not to apply this same philosophy to themselves. All you have to do is walk by a police precinct in NYC and you'll see many, many, personal cars illegally parked with police placards in the windows. A few years ago when a few police officers were charged with ILLEGALLY fixing tickets for friends and family of the force the head of the police union stood up and openly stated that the union perceived it as a police right to help those that support them (despite the fact that this is not in their contract). The list of petty infractions of course goes on. Perhaps if the broken laws/regulations were enforced vigorously the police culture would not be one of perceived impunity and the uber bad apples would not cross the line in more significant ways.
7
A union should protect its own, except when its own are breaking the laws they are there to uphold.
5
To quote Yogi Berra "it's deja vu all over again". We've been down this road before. Does anyone remember things like the Kerner Commission, the Knapp Commission, the studies and investigations of policing following the pain this nation went through in what was then called the "Long Hot Summer" which was quickly followed by the anti-war movement and home grown groups like the SDS and the Weathermen. Right now, I just see us keep circling back to what are the same problems over and over again. Fundamental change will require work, cost, patience, perseverance and diligence. It cannot happen when our attention is like a strobe light and moves somewhere else. This is not a sound bite problem and sound bites can't solve it.
1
Need help? Do you call a looter, a rapist or a cop? Get over yourself.....these brave men and women protect us!!! Not seeing any liberals joining the force
4
This is the dumbest comment. Police cadets come in all political persuasions. While some are brave, others are just looking at the paycheck and pension.
"Not seeing any liberals joining the force."
No, they've retired. They were the ones who were proud, after 30 years of service, of never having pulled their guns.
No, they've retired. They were the ones who were proud, after 30 years of service, of never having pulled their guns.
Conservative website: www.policemisconduct.net
You wouldn't want to call any of these cops for any reason.
Educate yourself, they are not all saints.
You wouldn't want to call any of these cops for any reason.
Educate yourself, they are not all saints.
This is a strange article. First, it is sad see the headline use the word "privilege" and all the connotations that go with it. A better headline would be that police have lost their political clout. Second, the police don't appear to be struggling they appear to be stonewalling. It would also have been interesting to hear the views of more active duty officers and Union members. Did the Times even try to talk to cops?
More Civilian review boards and sanctions for cops who use excessive force are coming. We have to get bad cops off the street before they kill. If the Unions don't get on board the changes will come anyway and they won't have anything to say about the shape they take.
More Civilian review boards and sanctions for cops who use excessive force are coming. We have to get bad cops off the street before they kill. If the Unions don't get on board the changes will come anyway and they won't have anything to say about the shape they take.
2
Have police lost my respect -- you better believe they have! Yesterday police killed a man in Kennewick, Washington bringing the yearly kill rate per capita for Kennewick/Pasco police to an astounding 1 per 21,000. Here, the pistol and the AK 47 are the only tools that police know how to use.
3
I am sorry, but there can be no "legitimate concerns about overreach on the part of their civilian overseers." The police serve us, and we elect those civilian overseers and if they are doing a bad job then we the people get to fire them. I have no problem with police officers getting the word out if they think police are being scapegoated or not being given sufficient direction or resources, but at the end of the day, the police are not an independent entity that should be "hands off" to elected officials. Quite the opposite, in fact. Because they are authorized to detain citizens and use force they, in particular, need to be accountable, and the current situation in which police think that the opposite is the case is directly related to the horrifying and unjustified use of force in so many situations. For which, by the way, the taxpayer is often asked to pay significant sums of money to victims of violence and their families.
69
Police are accountable to the law and the courts. Police are the most scrutinized people in the country.
The problems come down from the top and up from the bottom. Mayor Bloomberg condoned the arrest of over a thousand peaceful people during the 2004 GOP convention, many not even protesters. With just a handful of cases not being thrown out, their defacto kidnapping for an entire weekend cannot be explained away. Complement that with the reality that so many on the force are joining for the express purpose of gaining power in a society that continues to trivialize blue collar work and the American Dream, and we have a perfect storm of aggression. Not to mention the 9/11 state of mind that everyone with a badge now feels empowered to act like Jack Bauer in '24'.
7
To protect and serve is an honorable mission statement for a profession. This profession is that of a police officer. It is a difficult job, but the police must understand that using "the person didn't comply" does give an officer the right to produce profound bodily harm. If I, an untrained person, were don the uniform I would react irrationally. Where is the training, in practice, that show officers using pressure points, and other less evasive actions to subdue a person? Bring back the beat cops to all neighborhoods across America. Bring back the motto to protect and serve.
3
Mr. Egger-Bovet, Did you mean to say "does NOT give an officer the right to produce profound bodily harm"?
With all the talk of freedom freedom freedom the right wing sure loves police. Raise taxes on the wealthy by couple of percentages, it is tyranny!
Unarmed young black man gets killed every week? No. Nothing to see here. It's all "those" people anyway who don't vote the right way anyway.
Unarmed young black man gets killed every week? No. Nothing to see here. It's all "those" people anyway who don't vote the right way anyway.
4
Actually the most conservative CATO institute hosts the National Police Misconduct website: http://www.policemisconduct.net
There are some things that both the left and right agree on.
There are some things that both the left and right agree on.
Our Democracy's Well-Ordered Militia
It would help if police organizations would cross one of their own cultural barriers and demand reasonable gun control and licensing laws.
The gun industry and its paid politicians flood the nation with military calibre weapons, placing the police in an impossible situation, forced to assume that every driver, macho bonehead, and mall-loitering teenager has a loaded gun.
The police should make it loud and clear that they can only do their job if we accept that they are the "Well-Ordered Militia" specified in the Constitution, not every jackass, movie-addled Rambo looking for an excuse to "stand his ground."
It would help if police organizations would cross one of their own cultural barriers and demand reasonable gun control and licensing laws.
The gun industry and its paid politicians flood the nation with military calibre weapons, placing the police in an impossible situation, forced to assume that every driver, macho bonehead, and mall-loitering teenager has a loaded gun.
The police should make it loud and clear that they can only do their job if we accept that they are the "Well-Ordered Militia" specified in the Constitution, not every jackass, movie-addled Rambo looking for an excuse to "stand his ground."
10
The police are not - ever - above the law. The faster they lose any perception of privilege, the better everyone, including the police forces and police unions throughout the country, will be.
10
Police should not be allowed to form unions. The current sorry state of affairs that is civil policing in the United States is proof.
4
One of my sons was an LEO before becoming a lawyer.
Talk about a profession treated without a scintilla of respect, by the way. Lawyers are skewered relentlessly, especially by the right, only partly because some of them are, yes, kind of sleazy (especially those Wall Street corporate types who use the law, plus buckets of cash, to savage workers and victims of corporate malfeasance), but mostly because when they do their jobs properly they're quite the thorn in the side of the powerful.
As an LEO, he was struck by the racism that flourished among his comrades. It was "a feature, not a bug." It went all the way to the top.
It wasn't about unions, either. This was cultural, political. These guys fancied themselves to be at war in some kind of dystopian Dirty Harry America, a Paradise Lost because it had been "ruined" by the liberals.
They were gung-ho heroes in their own little inner movie, and the Enemy was every liberal attorney and judge and politician out there, every black or brown person, every skinny white kid who didn't snap to on command.
At times my son saw tactics purely designed to inflict terror and pain. He also saw official lies--the wink-and-nudge, the "we've got this covered." Nobody questioned it. If they did they were soon cut out of the loop.
So--respect? For these people? Simply because they carry a gun and a badge? I can think of nothing less 'American' than being compelled to show respect to those who haven't earned it.
Talk about a profession treated without a scintilla of respect, by the way. Lawyers are skewered relentlessly, especially by the right, only partly because some of them are, yes, kind of sleazy (especially those Wall Street corporate types who use the law, plus buckets of cash, to savage workers and victims of corporate malfeasance), but mostly because when they do their jobs properly they're quite the thorn in the side of the powerful.
As an LEO, he was struck by the racism that flourished among his comrades. It was "a feature, not a bug." It went all the way to the top.
It wasn't about unions, either. This was cultural, political. These guys fancied themselves to be at war in some kind of dystopian Dirty Harry America, a Paradise Lost because it had been "ruined" by the liberals.
They were gung-ho heroes in their own little inner movie, and the Enemy was every liberal attorney and judge and politician out there, every black or brown person, every skinny white kid who didn't snap to on command.
At times my son saw tactics purely designed to inflict terror and pain. He also saw official lies--the wink-and-nudge, the "we've got this covered." Nobody questioned it. If they did they were soon cut out of the loop.
So--respect? For these people? Simply because they carry a gun and a badge? I can think of nothing less 'American' than being compelled to show respect to those who haven't earned it.
23
The unions and police advocates need to place the small number of criminal acts by police in proper context. There are some 700,000 officers. 12 million arrests a year, largely for small crimes. The estimated arrest rate for the United States in 2012 was 3,888.2 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants. That's 3 percent. Largely for DUI, drugs, and theft, which is probably related to drug use. They need to explain that it's largely the same set of addicts or alcoholics driving that arrest rate, as well. Tell loudly that incidents are NOT going up. And, please explain arrest number, because a person may be arrested multiple times during a year, the arrest figures do not reflect the number of individuals who have been arrested; rather, the arrest data show the number of times that persons are arrested. And in many egregious cases, the person involved has been arrested before, often many times. Not excusing police misconduct, but addressing the fact the choice to comply, to run, to fight, may be placed in context in those cases. Drugs, repeat offenders, substance abuse which affects choices. Much room for improvement in use of force policy and training as well. "Not today, policeman" should be met by "tomorrow's another day, and we don't forget." Not, in all cases, force which turns out to be deadly.
1
How about this context - if we're seeing a new video of police misconduct about one every other week, how many incidents are there that aren't recorded?
The police are terrifying both in their brutal actions, as seen by all of us on videos, and their cold, arrogant attitudes, as manifested by the police themselves when anyone questions what they are doing and their right to do it. They make life in a democracy frightening, brutalizing individuals they go after and, at demonstrations where we as citizens should have a right to express our opinions, presenting a presence all too similar to that of their counterparts in abusive police states worldwide. I, as an adult, am starting to have actual nightmares about the police and can only imagine what it must be like for children to be confronted with stories such as the shooting of Tamir Rice, a small child holding a toy gun. Police unions defend the police but who is to defend the rest of us?
9
No wonder people are fed up with unions. They have abused their power and made it nearly impossible for other unions who are just trying to achieve some parity.
3
It's not about "unions" it's about the police period.
3
We live in a democracy and when people are elected on a platform that includes police reform, the police have no right whatsoever to complain, carp, or fight the proposed changes. They are public employees, and when the public elects someone who promises change, it is the duty of the police to comply. When they do not, or fight changes, they are telling us all that they feel they are above the law, that they ARE the law. What happened to the mayor of New York City was disgusting. Turning their backs showed their disdain for the public and our wishes, which were expressed through the legitimacy of the ballot box. Democracy is the rule of law, not a police state.
9
The police are Americans. They have First Amendment rights.
2
Protect and serve went out the window for command and control.
10
I worked on the South Side of Chicago for several years in the aughts, right next to the old, infamously dangerous Robert Taylor Homes. Driving through at night, I would often notice that the building entrance lights would be out, and people, often old women with shopping carts or children, were forced to navigate groups of young men invariably lurking out front. I remember asking my (African American) boss “why don’t they fix the lights”, to which he replied “Oh, they do, but the dealers just bust them out again so the cops can’t see what’s going on.
In my own West Side neighborhood, there were frequently street shrines to shooting victims, much like the ones I saw near my house when I moved to East Oakland a few years later.
All of which is to say that, yes, crime is down. But all y’al writing from your safe enclaves in Boulder or San Francisco, there were still over 400 homicides in Chicago last year, 328 in NYC, 304 in Detroit, and that is just the murders. Of course Crips and Bloods and BGF members in Baltimore joined together to protest the police. They are engaged in criminal activity and, more even than each other, the “po po” are their traditional enemy.
There are a whole lot of people of color who live in neighborhoods terrorized (and that is not hyperbole) by crime. The police may be imperfect, but they are the only bulwark those people have right now. For their sake, we should think long and hard before embarking on any wholesale reform effort.
In my own West Side neighborhood, there were frequently street shrines to shooting victims, much like the ones I saw near my house when I moved to East Oakland a few years later.
All of which is to say that, yes, crime is down. But all y’al writing from your safe enclaves in Boulder or San Francisco, there were still over 400 homicides in Chicago last year, 328 in NYC, 304 in Detroit, and that is just the murders. Of course Crips and Bloods and BGF members in Baltimore joined together to protest the police. They are engaged in criminal activity and, more even than each other, the “po po” are their traditional enemy.
There are a whole lot of people of color who live in neighborhoods terrorized (and that is not hyperbole) by crime. The police may be imperfect, but they are the only bulwark those people have right now. For their sake, we should think long and hard before embarking on any wholesale reform effort.
4
"The police may be imperfect, but they are the only bulwark those people have right now. For their sake, we should think long and hard before embarking on any wholesale reform effort."
this is the lamest excuse for inaction and the status quo. reinvent the so called "bulwark".
this is the lamest excuse for inaction and the status quo. reinvent the so called "bulwark".
1
And what is your exposure to neighborhoods where crime is endemic? Because I have lived and worked in quite a few.
There are bad apples in every profession as we all know. It is especially troublesome in important professions like doctors, lawyers, teachers, police, clergy and politicians who interact directly with the public. For me, it is the abuse of politicians who constantly and consistently lie to us that I find most troubling. Lies that ruin peoples lives or even lead to death. For example, If you like your health insurance you can keep it, al Qaeda is on the run, Chemical weapons are a red lid line ISIS is a jv team. These lies led to poor decisions, which cost hundred if not thousands of lives.Who provided the oversight on our politicians? Voters, b that time it is too late.
1
I am disturbed by the way most of the comments here lump all of "The Police" into a single basket. Yes, there is clearly a lack of proper training and oversight in some departments and there are some bullies, brutes and racists scattered throughout. These are serious issues that must be addressed with more rigor. But many, perhaps even most, police are hard working decent folks who have taken a job that can put their lives in danger. In some precincts that danger is almost constant. They ARE our defense against the criminals and psychopaths amongst us and their jobs often are very similar to the military. We should not lump all of these hard working officers into a single category and vilify them. That is precisely the kind of stereotyping and bigotry we are finding so problematic in the police force.
33
I respectfully suggest that this majority of good officers need to speak out - within their work places, to their supervisors, but in public if need be - to become responsible for changing the culture of their profession. Otherwise, they're not so wonderful.
1
When police who are not bullies and thugs start truthfully reporting on the ones who are, then the public will be able to distinguish which are the good cops and which are the bad ones. Meanwhile, when the image too often seen is more than one officer ganging up on a suspect, countless videos of the 4th or 5th cop arriving at the scene and assaulting the suspect already subdued by the first three cops (not one of which even think of stopping another cop from doing whatever he or she pleases to the prone suspect), then yes - the public will continue to see the police as one "Fraternal Order", and hold that order accountable for the behavior of its members.
2
There's a lot of anger. "New York, Baltimore, Cleveland, Ferguson, Mo., and North Charleston, S.C." The NYT left out that small town in California (name escapes) where fortunately a tv helicopter was overhead and caught a half dozen cops kicking [in the head, too] and beating a bad guy. Just put the cuffs on, dudes. Leave the punishment to the jury.
That's the problem: where there's smoke, there's fire, particularly in government.
"Of the people, by the people, for the people."
That's the problem: where there's smoke, there's fire, particularly in government.
"Of the people, by the people, for the people."
Could we also now retire the Orwellian locution "peace officer?"
6
We should also retire the Orwellian locution "civil rights advocate."
I recently went to my local police precinct to report a crime that had been committed against me. The uniformed officer taking the information was so aggressive toward me that I had to wonder if I was now the suspect! A cop on my local subway platform approached me, asked what I was reading. Before I had a chance to even respond, he snatched to book out of my hands to examine it. Do they now feel in this post 9/11 world that they are so indispensable that we should only feel subservient gratitude toward them? The police in our country have walled themselves off and adopted an "us and them" mentality. Unfortunately, "them" is everyone else. While race is an added factor that makes people of color "extra-them", the police seem universally hostile toward civilians of all races. They have become so identified with their jobs and the culture of their workplaces that questioning anything they do feels like an assault to them. They're on an ego trip and, if crossed, it seems they will defend their egos with deadly force. Something has to change.
129
We have the opportunity to identify these individuals before they inflict damage. When they conduct themselves in ways that do not match the usual pattern of activity found within our daily lives, they stand out from others.
“IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING" ...derived from Homeland Security
We are not enablers, Police Officers are a priority to our nation, let us support them by speaking out against the bad apples.
“IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING" ...derived from Homeland Security
We are not enablers, Police Officers are a priority to our nation, let us support them by speaking out against the bad apples.
2
It’s high time police are getting what they have been serving- A healthy plate of scrutiny! Aside from a few traffic violations, I am as law abiding as they come. It is within these rare encounters with police, have I ever felt more violated and humiliated for a minor traffic stop. The sneering, the bad attitude, the overall, “It’s us against them,” mentality seethes from the very uniform which my tax dollars provide. Gone are the days when an officer would say, “I’m gonna let this one go, be safe”.. Everything today is driven by the all-powerful revenue stream and every ticket issued is just another dollar in the police retirement coffer. Police have ridden too long and too far on a fraternal horse of arrogance and intimidation. Not every cop is a bad cop- but every good cop knows who the bad ones are- and their cowardly silence to protect and defend their blue wall only reinforces tacit approval for the bad ones to stay.
10
A few years ago there was a book written by 2 PHDs at the University of Chicago tieled 'Freakonomics', in whidh the Authors attributed the legalization of Abortion as to the large drop in Crimes 20+ years after Abortions were leagzlized. Could it have been a factor? The Autthors pointed out that most crime perpatrated on a major city were committed by criminals in their early 20s, and not necessarily due to effective Policing! (Food for thouhgt)!
1
Today's police departments are little more than mercenary paramilitary groups with a tremendous amount of physical and legal power which they tend to abuse with alarming frequency. The fact that America has more laws than any other country restricting what its citizens can and cannot do only serves to empower these groups and limit the individual in his/her daily struggle to just get by.
5
a focus on the police unions means the focus here is on the institutions rather than the individuals.
a graphic that ran in this paper earlier this week documented that the hours spent training on weapons and combat were vastly greater than the hours spent on interpersonal methods of de-escalation and control. the police are not trained to do the job we expect of them.
a secondary problem is the ominous increase in military equipment and military attitudes that have come into police department thanks to the largesse of the homeland security administration's "war on terror".
military equipment should only be in the hands of the national guard. and what i find lacking in my personal interactions with police officers in routine situations is a distinct failure of courtesy. these public servants are officers of the court: they are not the judge and jury.
summary execution based on panic, anger or misjudgment is outside the rule of law. it should be federal law that every instance of lethal force should require the officer or officers involved to stand trial for manslaughter rather than receive the usual "administrative leave with pay".
this extreme remedy would make the issue clear: if you are willing to pull the trigger, you're willing to explain your decision to a jury.
a graphic that ran in this paper earlier this week documented that the hours spent training on weapons and combat were vastly greater than the hours spent on interpersonal methods of de-escalation and control. the police are not trained to do the job we expect of them.
a secondary problem is the ominous increase in military equipment and military attitudes that have come into police department thanks to the largesse of the homeland security administration's "war on terror".
military equipment should only be in the hands of the national guard. and what i find lacking in my personal interactions with police officers in routine situations is a distinct failure of courtesy. these public servants are officers of the court: they are not the judge and jury.
summary execution based on panic, anger or misjudgment is outside the rule of law. it should be federal law that every instance of lethal force should require the officer or officers involved to stand trial for manslaughter rather than receive the usual "administrative leave with pay".
this extreme remedy would make the issue clear: if you are willing to pull the trigger, you're willing to explain your decision to a jury.
3
Police unions are like any other public employee union. They refuse to admit that there are some bad actors (and actresses) and that their good members are tainted by the bad ones.
2
It appears that the chief compliant against the police could be remedied if the police ceased supressing crime in these urban neighborhood and switched to reactive policing, wherein they would respond solely to reported crimes.
Their complaint of harassment is caused by proactive crime prevention and it is clearly widely resented.
Their complaint of harassment is caused by proactive crime prevention and it is clearly widely resented.
1
Judging from many of the comments here, there is still much support among the middle class for a "blue wall of protection" against what they perceive as a whole class of poor black people who are out to steal our stuff. As outlined in Michelle Alexander's book, THE NEW JIM CROW, policing and corrections have become the new way, since the Civil Rights era, of keeping the black underclass under. By supporting draconian drug laws, and by adopting policies like "Broken Windows" that aggressively confront black people who MAY be committing minor crimes, like shoplifting or selling cigarettes on the street, or who may be doing nothing at all ("driving while black"), the police, along with others, are creating the impression that the whole black race is a criminal class, and they believe it themselves. This leads to a state of antagonism and fear in which, too often, the police's first impulse is to use deadly force. It goes WAY beyond "a few bad apples" - it's a military campaign against a whole class of people, supported by white, middle-class fears of being violently deprived of our property rights, or of seeing our children excluded from admission to college or obtaining good jobs by "those people."
6
From what I've been reading, the so-called "black underclass" includes all African Americans in the eyes of far too many people, including some police. When "driving while black" means stopping middle and upper middle class people who look "suspicious" to the cop, we're talking about wholesale racial profiling and oppression.
Everyone has to be afforded with Due Process. That means, there should NOT be a single police shooting unless they have been fired upon. We might as well get rid of Due Process if Police are allowed to kill people.
2
Police are already killing people for no justifiable reason (too many examples to enumerate). The most recent I saw last night where a cop gunned down a white man standing in the door of his own home who had his hands UP IN THE AIR. It is on video/photos and two other officers with him testified that they saw absolutely no reason to shoot the man.
Incredibly, not only was the officer not immediately fired, but his is still employed and working in the department.
So....there is clearly no due process when it comes to prosecuting police officers.
Incredibly, not only was the officer not immediately fired, but his is still employed and working in the department.
So....there is clearly no due process when it comes to prosecuting police officers.
The police in the United States have great latitude in performing their functions, which recognizes the dangers that police face, and protects individual officers from judicial second-guessing. For instance, the police have the ability to stop-and-frisk people based on mere "reasonable suspicion," as well as look inside vehicles at a traffic stop for weapons. And few charges are ever brought against police officers. But it cannot be questioned that police departments around the country have been abusing this discretion, acting unlawfully, and violating people's civil liberties.
For too long, the police unions have set themselves in opposition to the public by refusing to accept that officers must be held accountable for their actions. Common sense approaches, including civilian review boards, have repeatedly been fought. It is unfortunate that the police have chosen this course of action, and it is incumbent upon the police and their unions to change direction. Here, Mr. O'Donnell is quite wrong. While elected officials bear the responsibility of having failed to confront the police for too long, it was the police themselves that chose this path.
For too long, the police unions have set themselves in opposition to the public by refusing to accept that officers must be held accountable for their actions. Common sense approaches, including civilian review boards, have repeatedly been fought. It is unfortunate that the police have chosen this course of action, and it is incumbent upon the police and their unions to change direction. Here, Mr. O'Donnell is quite wrong. While elected officials bear the responsibility of having failed to confront the police for too long, it was the police themselves that chose this path.
7
Rick: "Anarchy would be a safer way to live."
Unbelievable!
Unbelievable!
6
I am deeply concerned at the combative and hostile attitude demonstrated by police officers and their union leaders when called to task by our elected officials for serious misbehavior.
In the past decade, almost under the radar, police all around this country have been militarized to an extent that should strike fear into the hearts of the citizens of a free society. The federal government has spent billions to arm law enforcement agencies --even in small towns-- with riot gear, tanks, drones and other high-powered weapons.
One does not have to be clairvoyant to see that America is unraveling: wasting trillions in useless wars, shedding jobs, letting infrastructure deteriorate and creating conditions in which more and more persons are marginalized and desperate.
Add to this the almost-total surveillance of each of us by the national security state, a government of politicians bought and paid for by a tiny group of the ultra-wealthy, and a veritable army of police, and you have the makings of fascism.
It is heartening to see that voters and a few politicians are beginning to understand the danger to all of us from unbridled police power wielded by individuals whose campaigns are financed by a small coterie of power brokers. (The Koch brothers, for example, are now reaching even into local elections with their unlimited money.)
However, this is a powerful tide, well-advanced. It will be difficult to turn it
In the past decade, almost under the radar, police all around this country have been militarized to an extent that should strike fear into the hearts of the citizens of a free society. The federal government has spent billions to arm law enforcement agencies --even in small towns-- with riot gear, tanks, drones and other high-powered weapons.
One does not have to be clairvoyant to see that America is unraveling: wasting trillions in useless wars, shedding jobs, letting infrastructure deteriorate and creating conditions in which more and more persons are marginalized and desperate.
Add to this the almost-total surveillance of each of us by the national security state, a government of politicians bought and paid for by a tiny group of the ultra-wealthy, and a veritable army of police, and you have the makings of fascism.
It is heartening to see that voters and a few politicians are beginning to understand the danger to all of us from unbridled police power wielded by individuals whose campaigns are financed by a small coterie of power brokers. (The Koch brothers, for example, are now reaching even into local elections with their unlimited money.)
However, this is a powerful tide, well-advanced. It will be difficult to turn it
11
What loss of position? After you press massacred these officers with phony witnesses and slanderous accusations and innuendos; Ferguson's police officer Wilson was exonerated by Ferguson's own investigation and Eric Holder's investigation has quietly gone missing. But this information never made your front page. In New York, Officer Pantaleo was exonerated when its investigation shows he used a headlock, not a chokehold, and Mr. Garner was still complaining he couldn't breath after being cuffed and nobody was touching him. Video shows that Freddy Gray was already injured and the officers carefully carrying him to the van. It's the press that's struggling with trying to show any actual misconduct; other than selling newspapers.
1
Mr Garner's windpipe had apparently been crushed by the headlock.
There was no reason to put Mr. Garner in a headlock in the first place.
He was killed for being confronted for selling loose cigarettes.
A cruel travesty of justice, but I don't ever see the cops taking responsibility for their bad behavior.
There was no reason to put Mr. Garner in a headlock in the first place.
He was killed for being confronted for selling loose cigarettes.
A cruel travesty of justice, but I don't ever see the cops taking responsibility for their bad behavior.
cops do a job just like eveyone else, they should be held to the same standards as everyone else, the problem as always is the union, just fire the bums and keep the good ones. Get rid of the unions.
2
"Mr. Bernstein, who suffered from diminishing support in districts where the union has long been influential, lost his re-election bid to the current state’s attorney, Marilyn J. Mosby, who has made prosecuting police misconduct a priority. Ms. Mosby recently charged six Baltimore police officers in the death of Mr. Gray, the resident whose death last month set off tumultuous protests around the city."
Be careful of what you wish for.
Be careful of what you wish for.
3
When a "few bad apple" stock brokers were abusing their position with clients with their fuduciary obligations, SEC and NASD oversight evolved to protect the public. The actions was cheered as an accomplishment benefiting the public.
When some mortgage brokers were taking advantatge of home buyers with predatory loans, the banking industry clamped down with oversight and new rules to protect the public. The action was cheered.
The same can be said for most occupations in different industries over the past decade or so. Licensing requirements, exams, recertifications, continuing education, all to weeding out the riff-raff.
Why is it that as more industries that deal with the general public have gotten stronger oversight for the protection of the people, the police departments around the country have gotten worse? Nobody is accountable. Crude, aggressive, unruly, ill mannered, "servants" to the communities they serve in are hardly ever barred, suspended or convicted.
The frenzy is always at it's peak right before the bubbe bursts. Then change finally comes. What are we waiting for?
When some mortgage brokers were taking advantatge of home buyers with predatory loans, the banking industry clamped down with oversight and new rules to protect the public. The action was cheered.
The same can be said for most occupations in different industries over the past decade or so. Licensing requirements, exams, recertifications, continuing education, all to weeding out the riff-raff.
Why is it that as more industries that deal with the general public have gotten stronger oversight for the protection of the people, the police departments around the country have gotten worse? Nobody is accountable. Crude, aggressive, unruly, ill mannered, "servants" to the communities they serve in are hardly ever barred, suspended or convicted.
The frenzy is always at it's peak right before the bubbe bursts. Then change finally comes. What are we waiting for?
3
You sir, suffer from what the left have unfortunately become...individuals who can not think logically through a problem. The examples you cited were not just a few bad apples... There were pecks of them! The cops are for the vast majority, not to be lumped into a category of 'bad apples'. Think of that if you ever need to cal 911!
1
Maybe instead of arresting people on small infractions, would be better to just talk to them. That is called community policing. Also police should get out of their fortress cars and walk around. What are they afraid of? Oh they may have to talk to citizens...
Maybe we should have a tier 0 police whose job is to walk around. No guns. Just talking and learning about the community. It takes time to gain trust but it's doable if it's done in a none threatening manner.
Maybe we should have a tier 0 police whose job is to walk around. No guns. Just talking and learning about the community. It takes time to gain trust but it's doable if it's done in a none threatening manner.
2
Police forces in the 1980s began largely to see an influx of new officers who came in and trained during the latter part of the '70s, when America was not at war. Since then, coupled with the gym workout and exercise supplement trends that really burgeoned during the period, the U.S. has been in back-to-back wars where many veterans come out who are more bulked, angry, violent, trigger-temper-prone, and bulked up on behavior-affecting steroids and other health supplements--not to mention other mood-stabilizing medications--entering and graduating at police academies, and then coming onto the forces and onto our streets, interacting with us citizens. This is increasingly who and what we are dealing with, and it is becoming more and more the case that these personality types are not just policing, but also abusing, harassing, and harming those civilians with whom our later generations' new police officers come into act.
6
Quite telling that the head of the Baltimore police union is more interested in fixing blame for Freddie Gray and any police brutality in Baltimore on the mayor.
Shouldn't police unions be vitally interested in fixing the problems? Why wouldn't they be supporting their members by addressing ways to improve policing in Baltimore and ways to engage the community? Maybe the police unions need new leadership.
Shouldn't police unions be vitally interested in fixing the problems? Why wouldn't they be supporting their members by addressing ways to improve policing in Baltimore and ways to engage the community? Maybe the police unions need new leadership.
7
In between protecting each other and fending off attempts at oversight, it's a miracle the police described here ever find time to protect the citizens who pay their salaries and benefits. Sounds as if a pendulum swing has been way overdue.
6
How about all monetary compensations for police misconduct come out of the police salaries. Say there's a judgement of $2,000,000 to be paid, deduct a portion of no more than 10% from every police officer pay every pay period till the judgement if paid. Everyone pays, good cops, bad cops. I bet the bad cops will clean up their act pretty quick.
6
Great idea! The police do not police themselves, except on very rare occasions.
Police tactics and Unions tantrums remind me of The General from "A Few Good Men". You cannot be above law just because you provide security. If you cannot provide security within confines of law, then quit and flip burgers for living, for you are no better.
10
The police unions appear to overreached and exhibit hubris. Shooting themselves in the foot would be a good analogy. On the other hand, if police unions were as diligent in rooting out corruption and abuse by their members and the public knew it, they would not be in their current position.
6
The tragic loss of a NYC cop should be an opportunity to take a look at police procedure/ gun policy.
America has an unapologetic gun culture. It was founded upon gun violence which has perpetuated through our history. Gun violence is as American as baseball.
Police dept's throughout America have taken the term "war" on drugs or crime to literally mean a "war".
The officer that was murdered in NYC was only 25 on a "street unit". He had only been a cop for 5 yrs why would someone make him a detective unless he showed an extraordinary sense of street knowledge?
Same goes for the cop that choked Garner, he was also about 27. He too, only on the force a few years( with numerous civilian complaints). Cop Haste who shot Ramarley Graham in his home, also young, not even suppose to be on the unit untrained and unqualified. His buddy cops decided to bring him along, despite his inexperience( killing unarmed Graham in front of his little brother and grandmother).
Most plainclothes street cops are young and white, growing up outside of the city. For years the NYPD sought out recruits in predominately white communities. Is it practical?
The officer that was killed grew up on long island, when are we going to question the hiring procedure of non residents, of any race?
If they have no sense of the people, or, see a neighborhood as occupied enemy territory, hostilities manifest.
Police procedure/ Gun policy must be revised. Right now it's too dangerous for our society to ignore....
America has an unapologetic gun culture. It was founded upon gun violence which has perpetuated through our history. Gun violence is as American as baseball.
Police dept's throughout America have taken the term "war" on drugs or crime to literally mean a "war".
The officer that was murdered in NYC was only 25 on a "street unit". He had only been a cop for 5 yrs why would someone make him a detective unless he showed an extraordinary sense of street knowledge?
Same goes for the cop that choked Garner, he was also about 27. He too, only on the force a few years( with numerous civilian complaints). Cop Haste who shot Ramarley Graham in his home, also young, not even suppose to be on the unit untrained and unqualified. His buddy cops decided to bring him along, despite his inexperience( killing unarmed Graham in front of his little brother and grandmother).
Most plainclothes street cops are young and white, growing up outside of the city. For years the NYPD sought out recruits in predominately white communities. Is it practical?
The officer that was killed grew up on long island, when are we going to question the hiring procedure of non residents, of any race?
If they have no sense of the people, or, see a neighborhood as occupied enemy territory, hostilities manifest.
Police procedure/ Gun policy must be revised. Right now it's too dangerous for our society to ignore....
6
You're 100% right about guns. But we are in a mess about "stop and frisk" which did, indeed, find guns and get them off the street.
Let's not forget, either, that the man who shot that young cop was a career criminal and should never have been out of jail.
Let's not forget, either, that the man who shot that young cop was a career criminal and should never have been out of jail.
1
Many of inner-city neighborhoods ARE enemy territory, occupied by drug dealers, gangs and thugs who shoot-to-kill with impunity.
Jill Abbott@ So those that are not engaged in criminal activity are collateral damage?
Harlem was treated as "enemy territory" when only a small segment were "bad actors".
By the way, here is the hypocrisy:
Harlem, as many other black communities was exploited by mobsters, drug dealers, and miscreants.
Guess who gave protection and received illicit gains from those criminals for collusion? NYPD "occupiers".
Also, whenever a thug shoots and kills, they get caught, 99% of the time going to prison....
Harlem was treated as "enemy territory" when only a small segment were "bad actors".
By the way, here is the hypocrisy:
Harlem, as many other black communities was exploited by mobsters, drug dealers, and miscreants.
Guess who gave protection and received illicit gains from those criminals for collusion? NYPD "occupiers".
Also, whenever a thug shoots and kills, they get caught, 99% of the time going to prison....
1
A headline that is more reflective of reality would read:
Journalists Struggle with a Loss of Credibility.
Journalists Struggle with a Loss of Credibility.
3
There is nothing more honorable, important and looked up to then to become a police officer in America. That is the way it should be.
There is nothing more dishonorable, dangerous and not looked up to then to have a police officer break the law. That is the way it should be too.
There is nothing more dishonorable, dangerous and not looked up to then to have a police officer break the law. That is the way it should be too.
4
“There was a time in this country when elected officials — legislators, chief executives — were willing to contextualize what police do,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a former New York City police officer and prosecutor who now teaches at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “And that time is mostly gone.”
What does "contextualize" mean in this context? Formerly officials just overlooked police abuse, refused to prosecute, and basically ignored complaints from minorities and the poor about their treatment. The "context" being that the police can do what they want to "protect" us from the criminal element (i.e., minorities and the poor who are seen to be more likely to cause trouble than others). Times have changed and "No Justice, No Peace" is the simple demand that all people be treated fairly under the law. The police and politicians forgot that Justice is supposed to be blindfolded and weigh all equally in her scales. They must quit looking out for themselves alone but also for all the rest of us.
What does "contextualize" mean in this context? Formerly officials just overlooked police abuse, refused to prosecute, and basically ignored complaints from minorities and the poor about their treatment. The "context" being that the police can do what they want to "protect" us from the criminal element (i.e., minorities and the poor who are seen to be more likely to cause trouble than others). Times have changed and "No Justice, No Peace" is the simple demand that all people be treated fairly under the law. The police and politicians forgot that Justice is supposed to be blindfolded and weigh all equally in her scales. They must quit looking out for themselves alone but also for all the rest of us.
7
The less Police the better , we need quality trained professionals not more of the same. More cops walking the beat and pass laws that they must live in the cities & towns they police, Cops need to look like cops not stormtroopers , lose all the para miltary gear for the rank & file . Swat teams for big cities and used only rarely. I could go on & on that's the problem. It's time for some common sense solutions to troublesome problem for all Americans.
6
Perhaps many with theories on policing should suit up, walk a beat, and encounter what police see every day.
Police aren't perfect and we should surely dismiss the ones needing to go.
However, an estimated 700K officers work at least forty hours a week in the US to uphold the law and protect citizens. In those 28M hours, there are sure to be mistakes. Let's not indict all who serve based on the actions of six for forty minutes.
Interestingly, the Baltimore State's Attorney now doesn't want to debate in the media the legality of the spring loaded knife that led to the arrest of Mr. Gray. She should have adopted that same stance in her grandstanding for the media announcement of the charges.
Police aren't perfect and we should surely dismiss the ones needing to go.
However, an estimated 700K officers work at least forty hours a week in the US to uphold the law and protect citizens. In those 28M hours, there are sure to be mistakes. Let's not indict all who serve based on the actions of six for forty minutes.
Interestingly, the Baltimore State's Attorney now doesn't want to debate in the media the legality of the spring loaded knife that led to the arrest of Mr. Gray. She should have adopted that same stance in her grandstanding for the media announcement of the charges.
5
When police officers begin to feel privileged to serve the public, and willing to accept responsibility for causing needless harm, instead of privileged to act with lawless impunity, anti-cop sentiment will soften. In the meantime, this country needs to pick up the civil rights issue where it left off in the 80's, and begin to actually ensure equal opportunity for every citizen, not just words, but action.
7
I would agree the current policing issues began in the 70's. Which is when the training regimen refocused. Why? Fear of anarchy, in one form or another, to be sure. The adjustment in training was brought on by instructors from the military, newly demobbed from Vietnam who were locked into seeing the world as an us/them equation. They are focused on dealing with the 'other'. Once this POV gets a good footing, and it's had 40 years to do just that, then any thought of ' weaponless community policing' is doomed, suppressed as irrelevant and nonsensical. To me the police (and I include Canada's venerable R.C.M.P. , whose mandate was always paramilitary) have become government gangs, financed and uniformed by same, whose job is to maintain order as defined by their employers, i.e. the status quo, along with perpetuating their own existence. This is hardly the road to a fair an equitable society of course.
6
And that is what it takes to maintain law and order in our violent, drug dealing, gang-banger culture.
I think Professor O'Donnell is wrong about elected officials being unable to contextualize what police do and even more that he has difficulty understanding what the average person thinks about the police and why. He sounds like the union president unable to acknowledge calling the people who would have once been the subjects of lynch mob by the same name is totally inappropriate if not obscene.
We get you all too well Professor O'Donnell and worse, when you defend the actions of the bad cops your words besmirch the many good men and women in blue that do their jobs professionally.
We get you all too well Professor O'Donnell and worse, when you defend the actions of the bad cops your words besmirch the many good men and women in blue that do their jobs professionally.
1
The implication in this article is that , police unions not police management makes police policy. Bet the unions would like that. However, police management still sets the policy. Although it is a very stupid act by the police union officials to get out front of the story (unless its the media's selection of stories that runs the show), they do have a legal duty to fairly represent their members.( a better tact would be to remain taciturn while performing their duty). This out front approach by union officials does harm to unions in general!
3
I was shocked recently in my neighborhood to see a black and white version of the American Flag, with a blue stripe, flying on a neighbors flagpole.
I looked it up at home and learned that it is supposed to be a symbol of unity with police departments.
The site I visited went on and on about the thin blue line and all it is supposed to represent. I'll let you look it up for yourself, as I disagree with most of it, but the main point seems to be the us verses them mentality that has us all here. The overly dramatic separation between the police departments and the citizens' they police.
The police should view the communities they police as their own. Currently many have zero ownership in the communities they police, going home to their nice neighborhoods, after the shift, and continuing to think of the people they police as the enemy....
Here is the problem with the thin blue line...Many of us can't see it because it is lost in the police culture known as the blue wall of silence, and it is sometimes difficult to see a blue line on a blue background.
As with the teachers in America, if the unions would work with us to rid themselves, and us, of the outliers rather than blindly defending almost anything, one wonder what it would take to get Lynch to agree that something is wrong, we would all be much better off, and that BLUE LINE would be shinning like the beacon it is supposed to be.
I looked it up at home and learned that it is supposed to be a symbol of unity with police departments.
The site I visited went on and on about the thin blue line and all it is supposed to represent. I'll let you look it up for yourself, as I disagree with most of it, but the main point seems to be the us verses them mentality that has us all here. The overly dramatic separation between the police departments and the citizens' they police.
The police should view the communities they police as their own. Currently many have zero ownership in the communities they police, going home to their nice neighborhoods, after the shift, and continuing to think of the people they police as the enemy....
Here is the problem with the thin blue line...Many of us can't see it because it is lost in the police culture known as the blue wall of silence, and it is sometimes difficult to see a blue line on a blue background.
As with the teachers in America, if the unions would work with us to rid themselves, and us, of the outliers rather than blindly defending almost anything, one wonder what it would take to get Lynch to agree that something is wrong, we would all be much better off, and that BLUE LINE would be shinning like the beacon it is supposed to be.
7
"Currently many have zero ownership in the communities they police, going home to their nice neighborhoods, after the shift, and continuing to think of the people they police as the enemy....
are you talking about the policer living in million dollar+ houses in breezy point, in the rockaways , in queens ny?
it is quite amazing how they can live in such luxurious homes considering their constant griping about their salaries and benefits.
are you talking about the policer living in million dollar+ houses in breezy point, in the rockaways , in queens ny?
it is quite amazing how they can live in such luxurious homes considering their constant griping about their salaries and benefits.
The police have been a privileged, opaque, roguish in the main, way below the political "radar", ninja--macho "gang" unconcerned with behavioral fact and law.
Now that these oozing blisters have been popped by actual transparent, video/photo witnessing, let the chips fall where they must.
Now that these oozing blisters have been popped by actual transparent, video/photo witnessing, let the chips fall where they must.
4
The government, police and other institutions have overreached their powers and people feel this, and live this. So why do the police think it will be business as usual?
For many, the trust in the Department is slipping or lost. Lack of one-to-one relationships with a beat cop also create problems. And the viewing of the populace at large as all being potential terrorists have destroyed the ability of the police to understand they are public servants for the people, not for the forces in power, only. And overreacting and over reaches of force, especially against mentally ill people have done a disservice to the relationship between the public and the police.
Perception is reality and for the police this will be an uphill battle to regain the public's trust. Accountability for the bad cops would be a good start.
For many, the trust in the Department is slipping or lost. Lack of one-to-one relationships with a beat cop also create problems. And the viewing of the populace at large as all being potential terrorists have destroyed the ability of the police to understand they are public servants for the people, not for the forces in power, only. And overreacting and over reaches of force, especially against mentally ill people have done a disservice to the relationship between the public and the police.
Perception is reality and for the police this will be an uphill battle to regain the public's trust. Accountability for the bad cops would be a good start.
2
One purpose of unions is to prevent excessive power held by management being wielded in an abusive manner. When unions strong enough so that the union's powerful is in effect excessive, it seem inevitable that the union will then wield its power in an abusive manner.
The current attacks on collective bargaining rights will only result in problematic conditions. The growth of income inequality demonstrates that. The true solution is to make sure collective bargaining rights are protected, but also to ensure that neither unions nor management have enough power to become abusive.
Violent actions taken against the police is tragic. Police abuse of power against citizens is equally tragic. Both should be vehemently condemned by both police and citizens. To the extent that citizens perceive that the police and representative unions fail to fight abuse inside the police forces, citizens will criticize the police forces and police unions, even if the perceptions are incorrect. This is an issue that I suspect the police forces and the unions have inadequately dealt with.
Any large group of individuals will have "bad apples." In some groups, the effects of bad apples are mostly benign. Unfortunately, by the nature of the job and the power of the position, bad apples in police departments can result in tragic events. One should not demonize a police force or its unions for having bad apples but for tolerating them.
The current attacks on collective bargaining rights will only result in problematic conditions. The growth of income inequality demonstrates that. The true solution is to make sure collective bargaining rights are protected, but also to ensure that neither unions nor management have enough power to become abusive.
Violent actions taken against the police is tragic. Police abuse of power against citizens is equally tragic. Both should be vehemently condemned by both police and citizens. To the extent that citizens perceive that the police and representative unions fail to fight abuse inside the police forces, citizens will criticize the police forces and police unions, even if the perceptions are incorrect. This is an issue that I suspect the police forces and the unions have inadequately dealt with.
Any large group of individuals will have "bad apples." In some groups, the effects of bad apples are mostly benign. Unfortunately, by the nature of the job and the power of the position, bad apples in police departments can result in tragic events. One should not demonize a police force or its unions for having bad apples but for tolerating them.
1
Read David Simon's Interview about the evolution of policing in Baltimore over the last four decades in The Marshall Project themarshallproject.org
It is a "must read" - contains insights beyond anything else out there in the media.
It is a "must read" - contains insights beyond anything else out there in the media.
"Privileged position" - Thanks for the laugh.
They're no better than anyone else, up to, and including, the president.
They're no better than anyone else, up to, and including, the president.
3
Problem is the president, unlike you, went beyond a GED.
It's about time the pendulum has begun to swing back against the Police. They have been running roughshod over the population for quite some time now. I think it all began in earnest after 9/11. Suddenly the cops were considered Saints especially in New York. They used that adulation to begin a campaign of oppression against the public (and not just black people) that has been unrelenting. How many millions of dollars of taxpayer money has been doled out to citizens who have been abused by the Police. We pay their salaries, we should have all the oversight we want.
11
Like any respectable profession, people who misbehave or act egregiously and against moral, ethical and professional codes, need to be held responsible and accountable. If people decide to be in a profession that gives them power over others, then there needs to be objective oversight. It happens in the military, in the medical profession, and in schools. Finally, it is occurring, as it should, in the police forces. There should be NO exceptions. Let the good cops stay.
11
We have had a citizens oversight committee here in Seattle for some time. It has been all but useless and largely ineffective. Our police department is under a reform mandate from the Department of Justice as a result of a court order related to "overreach" and yet the police union fights it. Most of the police here in Seattle I think are good people but there are bad ones that the union covers for and when an individual policeman is cited for misconduct, the police automatically circle the wagons.
The policemen largely socialize with other policemen and their families and seem to isolate themselves from the communities of which they are and should be apart. There needs to be a healthy respect for the police and the often times hard and dangerous work they perform but their needs to be a respect for the community in which they patrol.
My local espresso shop is frequented by the same group of 4 to 6 policemen. They drive up in several of the new black and white SUV wagons that the department has been acquiring that are aggressive looking. They are dressed like the character in Robo Cop with batons and guns, sit off in a corner and try their best to look intimidating and unapproachable. Police are there to protect and serve not intimidate.
The policemen largely socialize with other policemen and their families and seem to isolate themselves from the communities of which they are and should be apart. There needs to be a healthy respect for the police and the often times hard and dangerous work they perform but their needs to be a respect for the community in which they patrol.
My local espresso shop is frequented by the same group of 4 to 6 policemen. They drive up in several of the new black and white SUV wagons that the department has been acquiring that are aggressive looking. They are dressed like the character in Robo Cop with batons and guns, sit off in a corner and try their best to look intimidating and unapproachable. Police are there to protect and serve not intimidate.
17
Does any knowledgeable observer seriously doubt the accuracy of describing Baltimore's protestarioters as lynch mob now that they're aided and abetted by States Attorney Marilyn Mosby's attempted railroading of Baltimore cops which even now is collapsing before our eyes. How ironic that there have been 8 murders & 12 shootings since "uprising" began.
6
Frankly, it would be nice if NYT can also run a parallel article with statistics showing how many cops have been killed while on duty. The problem here is the trigger-happy culture of America and the freely available guns. The police has no doubt overreached in many cases, but I have also never seen police get shot at this frequency anywhere else in the world.
Rather than blaming each other, how about America blames your own trigger-happy, cowboy culture?
Rather than blaming each other, how about America blames your own trigger-happy, cowboy culture?
7
You're absolutely right about the dangers US police officers face from armed criminals and others except that, as the NRA never tires of reminding us, most police officers support the easy availability of firearms in this country (in contrast to most police chiefs I might add, with the exception of some rural sheriffs who can hardly be described as law enforcement officers anyway). To some extent, they are the authors of their own misfortune when it comes to the high number of enforcement officers killed by gunfire every year. If police joined forces with those who support sensible restrictions on firearm possession, it would carry a great deal of weight. But they don't.
There is no "rapidly changing political context."
Liberals, as much as conservatives, are still in favor of cops keeping their feet securely fastened on the necks of anyone suspected of disrupting the social order.
Liberals, as much as conservatives, are still in favor of cops keeping their feet securely fastened on the necks of anyone suspected of disrupting the social order.
4
Me thinks you totally misread the situation
The "a few bad apples" idea is nice to believe, but experiences often shows that it's more like "a few GOOD apples". I suggest watching some police misconduct videos on YouTube. I especially recommend the one where 70-80 cops are laughing at the woman shot with a rubber bullet, and congratulating whomever hit her.
12
How much awareness do police departments, unions, or individual police need to get that they?:
1. are more effective when they know a neighborhood's people personally
2.cannot get away with gunning down unarmed people, not threatening to any NORMAL, well-armed, professional policeman
1. are more effective when they know a neighborhood's people personally
2.cannot get away with gunning down unarmed people, not threatening to any NORMAL, well-armed, professional policeman
3
If you have a serious problem, saying dealing with one or more gang members, the police will not be able to help you. Indeed, the cops will tell you that.
The police will point out that so and so is a member of a gang, and that in their opinion the best thing to do is not press charges because if you do they will not be able to help you escape the vengeance that will without doubt be wreaked upon you by other gang members.
When it really comes down to it, you are on your own. The notion that the cops are there to help individuals in trouble from criminals is a pretence. The police are only there to maintain the façade of law and order.
The police will point out that so and so is a member of a gang, and that in their opinion the best thing to do is not press charges because if you do they will not be able to help you escape the vengeance that will without doubt be wreaked upon you by other gang members.
When it really comes down to it, you are on your own. The notion that the cops are there to help individuals in trouble from criminals is a pretence. The police are only there to maintain the façade of law and order.
7
It is an unfortunate fact that police, along with several related professions, deal constantly with unsavory folks. Most of their interactions are not with law abiding citizens, but those who choose to live outside of the law. In this climate the police become jaded. It's the rare policeman who can maintain the idealistic goal they started with when they joined the force. This is not to excuse bad policing, it is just the reality in which they work day in and day out.
Laws are made wth the expectation that they will be enforced by the police. To be thwarted by those who ignore the structures of civility on a daily basis, and choose to run, fight or become verbally abusive only encourages the progression of a "bad attitude" in our policemen.
While all of these victims were petty criminals and did not deserve to die, they all challenged the police instead of behaving like law abiding citizens reinforcing a preconceived stereotype which led to their unfortunate demise.
Laws are made wth the expectation that they will be enforced by the police. To be thwarted by those who ignore the structures of civility on a daily basis, and choose to run, fight or become verbally abusive only encourages the progression of a "bad attitude" in our policemen.
While all of these victims were petty criminals and did not deserve to die, they all challenged the police instead of behaving like law abiding citizens reinforcing a preconceived stereotype which led to their unfortunate demise.
18
None of those officers were drafted into service. If they're not happy with the conditions under which they work, perhaps they should explore other career paths.
8
You are right to say that police have a tough job and work in a very difficult and often scary environment.
But you are wrong to say that "all of these victims were petty criminals." John Crawford was not a petty criminal--he was just a black man legally purchasing an air rifle at Walmart--and he was basically ambushed and shot dead for that with no real time to react. Tamir Rice was not a petty criminal, he was a black kid playing with a toy gun in a public park (as just about every white boy in America does at some point)--and if you've seen that video, then you've seen the squad car screech up in front of him and immediately shoot the kid before he has any real time to react. Trayvon Martin wasn't a petty criminal, he was a black kid walking through his own neighborhood with a packet of Skittles--and when a crazy man with a gun started following him and acting belligerently, Trayvon tried to "stand his ground" but died instead. Freddie Gray was a black man who looked the wrong way at a cop. The list goes on and on.
So Kathryn B. Mark, what does "behaving like a law abiding citizen" really mean to you? Does it mean that you shouldn't buy Skittles or walk down your own street? Does it mean that you shouldn't play in the park, (or at least don't play the same games that white kids play?) Does it mean that black people are not allowed to purchase the same items at Walmart as white people?
Or does "behaving like law abiding citizens" mean they should have white skin?
But you are wrong to say that "all of these victims were petty criminals." John Crawford was not a petty criminal--he was just a black man legally purchasing an air rifle at Walmart--and he was basically ambushed and shot dead for that with no real time to react. Tamir Rice was not a petty criminal, he was a black kid playing with a toy gun in a public park (as just about every white boy in America does at some point)--and if you've seen that video, then you've seen the squad car screech up in front of him and immediately shoot the kid before he has any real time to react. Trayvon Martin wasn't a petty criminal, he was a black kid walking through his own neighborhood with a packet of Skittles--and when a crazy man with a gun started following him and acting belligerently, Trayvon tried to "stand his ground" but died instead. Freddie Gray was a black man who looked the wrong way at a cop. The list goes on and on.
So Kathryn B. Mark, what does "behaving like a law abiding citizen" really mean to you? Does it mean that you shouldn't buy Skittles or walk down your own street? Does it mean that you shouldn't play in the park, (or at least don't play the same games that white kids play?) Does it mean that black people are not allowed to purchase the same items at Walmart as white people?
Or does "behaving like law abiding citizens" mean they should have white skin?
135
John Crawford and Tamir Rice didn't "challenge the police" at all. They were just minding their own business (a kid playing in a park and a man shopping at Walmart) and were attacked by the police based on erroneous 911 calls. The police didn't bother to check that they weren't dangers to anyone before executing them in public. They were NOT criminals in any way.
15
Welcome to the reality of being a professional; thats what has been happening to doctors in the last two decades. America loves to bash the professionals with whom they have direct contact in order to hold them responsible for all of the misery out there. America is now getting the results: the best and brightest are avoiding medicine and law enforcement: these two are very different in the educational spectrum but so alike in the privilege of serving, preserving life, and making the decision on how it should end.
2
This is a good article and engendered helpful and informative comments. I think my point is maybe a minor one but I wonder about cutbacks in police funding encouraged by a Republican legislators, as they encouraged all cutbacks in government funding ( except to the military and to large scale farmers and oil and gas companies).
One commenter on TV said he thought better training only went so far as police entered the culture of their jobs. Still, I wonder about better training and education in sociology and psychology.
I think because of cameras, we are seeing examples of police brutality that have always been there. I wonder also though if cutbacks in police funding led to stresses that made police culture in certain areas more prone to brutality. I think the whole economic situation of income inequality is a factor here also and that has fallen harder on black people.
Years ago, I couldn't sleep and got up at 3 A.M. and ran several miles until I reached the wealthy golf club in my town and ran through the golf course. As I was leaving, a police car showed up and shined some kind of powerful light really brightly on me. Then they drove away after a minute or so. This was years ago but I remember thinking that I was glad at that moment that I, a white woman, was not a black man.
One commenter on TV said he thought better training only went so far as police entered the culture of their jobs. Still, I wonder about better training and education in sociology and psychology.
I think because of cameras, we are seeing examples of police brutality that have always been there. I wonder also though if cutbacks in police funding led to stresses that made police culture in certain areas more prone to brutality. I think the whole economic situation of income inequality is a factor here also and that has fallen harder on black people.
Years ago, I couldn't sleep and got up at 3 A.M. and ran several miles until I reached the wealthy golf club in my town and ran through the golf course. As I was leaving, a police car showed up and shined some kind of powerful light really brightly on me. Then they drove away after a minute or so. This was years ago but I remember thinking that I was glad at that moment that I, a white woman, was not a black man.
3
Make the police unions and pension funds liable for lawsuits stemming from police abuses, instead of municipalities and taxpayers who outlawed the abuses. Why should we take money away from libraries and public housing to cover an officer who kills a civilian, instead of making the fellow officers on the street who justify the culture of violence pay?
6
"In Baltimore, the local police union president accused protesters angry at the death of Freddie Gray of participating in a “lynch mob.” In South Carolina, the head of the police union where an officer had shot and killed an unarmed black man who was fleeing fulminated against “professional race agitators.” ........"
These Police Union Officials who attack prosecutors for trying to bring police officers to justice for murder, should be arrested and tried for aiding and colluding in organized crime and murder.
These Police Union Officials who attack prosecutors for trying to bring police officers to justice for murder, should be arrested and tried for aiding and colluding in organized crime and murder.
6
Privileged Position? You mean that stature that the 99.99% of really good cops have who have to deal with drunks, drug addicts, car crashes, domestic violence, murders and other mayhem all day long? I think that they are not acknowledged positively enough nor are they compensated financially in an equitable way for what they have to do.
5
Yes, a badge requires an officer of the law to uphold the law and to provide ALL with Equal Protection and Due Process of the law.
Wake up. This isn't 1954.
I'm not sure why police officers almost always rally around a fellow officer when it's obvious his/her actions were wrong.
As a military officer, I follow a creed or code, we have to not "lie, steal, or cheat" and NOT tolerate those among us that do.
As a military officer, I follow a creed or code, we have to not "lie, steal, or cheat" and NOT tolerate those among us that do.
112
Unlike military, there is no honor or code .. only thing that is taught repeatedly is "us vs them" and need to protect blueline at ALL costs.
1
Can you tell me how many police officers ralliedd around the South Carolina cop who murdered a Blackman? I’ll give you help with the answer: ZERO
I agree with you LG. I can't understand why it's so difficult for police to admit that one of their own did something wrong. I believe the majority of cops are good people and want to help but when you blindly support an officer who is clearly in the wrong it weakens your position in the public eye. Admit that the individual cop messed up and deal with him/her accordingly, just like you would with anyone else that messed up in the same way.
It is tendentious to say that the police are trying to maintain their "privileged position." I think the frustration is with their not being allowed to do their jobs by public officials who have a political ax to grind. They also resent being falsely accused. Worst of all, they resent not being granted the "privilege" of defending their own lives when a criminal suspect poses an immediate threat to their lives. The Ferguson case is a perfect example. Local and national public figures and many news media ran with the original narrative that a racist white police officer for no reason gunned down a black man, a gentle giant, for mere jay-walking. They continued with this narrative well past the point when it was obvious that all the available evidence contradicted it. The critics of Darren Wilson and the police would have preferred, it seems, that his attacker had succeeded in disarming and killing him -- as Miichael Brown was revealed by the evidence to have attempted.
3
Obviously the pendulum is swinging away from police and law enforcement. And rightly so, as police have abused their authority in the enforcement of the law. Let's not forget that America is a nation of laws and order must be maintained in order for society to exist. Yet, as police step back from law enforcement and the mob gains control and chaos ensues, the pendulum will swing back in favor of the police. Society will demand it, because order must prevail.
1
New York's dirty little secret is that otherwise progressive labor unions act in solidarity with the PBA and other police unions to support political candidates whose positions reinforce their collective bargaining stance. Principle takes a back seat to self-interest. Not quite your grandfather's labor union any more.
3
At last, we may hope to see some checks on the sometime poor, violent, behavior of our police. They knew what the job entailed when they chose to join the police department. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the ... I think there is a real problem with the attitudes of our police and their often boorish behavior. Perhaps after too many years they become jaded with dealing with (often) the worst of our society. Notice however that white collar crime harming many thousands more people, never seem to end up in prison. Perhaps there need be a time limit on policing and when they or there fellow cops see a dangerous change in attitude toward the public, they need retraining, or replacing. Sure, they put their life on the line - but they knew that when they signed up. Many police have lost the belief and respect of the public. They frequently show an arrogant attitude - they don't seem to want to protect, and serve - and deep down, perhaps all along, they had racist attitudes that showed up in a pinch. More training, and a change of the areas they are to work in might help. And a return to college to study law, sociology, mental health. and anti-racist training - or as a last resort - firing.
2
Instead of a "protect and serve" attitude there seems to be an "us versus them" mindset by the police unions. Of course, their knee jerk support of officers who are now being viewed on camera using excessive support is eroding good will with the public. I note that the media is reporting today that the head of the Baltimore Police Department is saying that they are part of the problem. This is a big step in the right direction and one that the unions should support.
Theresa S.
Washington, DC
Theresa S.
Washington, DC
6
Police have very good jobs. Compared with many other jobs requiring the same amount of education, training and experience, they are paid very well, have excellent benefits and unparalleled retirement plans. As for hazards, a police officer is less likely to get killed or injured on the job than many other professions.
If you post an open position for a police officer, you will have literally hundreds of people line up for the job the very next day. I am certain that more tha a few of those in line will will be able to do it as well or better than the last guy who held it.
Police officers should never forget that they have such a desirable job. This is the truth, and they all know it well but don't admit it. That is why they are so resistant to any interference or scrutiny.
If you post an open position for a police officer, you will have literally hundreds of people line up for the job the very next day. I am certain that more tha a few of those in line will will be able to do it as well or better than the last guy who held it.
Police officers should never forget that they have such a desirable job. This is the truth, and they all know it well but don't admit it. That is why they are so resistant to any interference or scrutiny.
55
I usually donate to Police Unions. But no more penny given how these Unions are digging dirt on anyone who try to fight the corrupt departments and unions that blindly support officers with criminal and mental issues.
3
SO many of the comments here are astounding. Yes, I'm grateful for police protection and yes, it's vital. That does not make me a hypocrite for thinking their role and powers must be circumscribed.
From just ONE set of crazy comments, those of "ultraliberal"
> How many of the so called over reactions by the Police had clean
> records, & were up standing citizens ?
Arresting Freddie Gray without probable cause, criminal negligence in his transportation, and refusing medical critically needed attention is somehow justified by a less than clean record? It's OK this *innocent* man died because his record was not "clean?"
Walter Scott, a man who had not endangered anyone was shot in the back as he ran away from an officer. Michael Slager, the officer claimed "self defense" over his radio as he handcuffed a dying man lying on his stomach. He failed to call for medical attention. This is a "so called over reaction?"
What would a real "over reaction" by an officer look like? I can't begin to imagine.
And what makes those cameras "ridiculous?" No officer will get in trouble by following published protocols. By suggesting that cameras reduce officer safety, you imply effective policing depends on ignoring protocols, that officers should be above procedures and above the law. Perhaps you just think laws are "ridiculous."
Hasn't recent history proven that justice often hinges on cell phone video? What is wrong with transparency? Isn't sunshine the best disinfectant?
From just ONE set of crazy comments, those of "ultraliberal"
> How many of the so called over reactions by the Police had clean
> records, & were up standing citizens ?
Arresting Freddie Gray without probable cause, criminal negligence in his transportation, and refusing medical critically needed attention is somehow justified by a less than clean record? It's OK this *innocent* man died because his record was not "clean?"
Walter Scott, a man who had not endangered anyone was shot in the back as he ran away from an officer. Michael Slager, the officer claimed "self defense" over his radio as he handcuffed a dying man lying on his stomach. He failed to call for medical attention. This is a "so called over reaction?"
What would a real "over reaction" by an officer look like? I can't begin to imagine.
And what makes those cameras "ridiculous?" No officer will get in trouble by following published protocols. By suggesting that cameras reduce officer safety, you imply effective policing depends on ignoring protocols, that officers should be above procedures and above the law. Perhaps you just think laws are "ridiculous."
Hasn't recent history proven that justice often hinges on cell phone video? What is wrong with transparency? Isn't sunshine the best disinfectant?
3
After time moves on we may see the current progressive view of police officers as being similar to how America treated soldiers returning from Vietnam.
This could be more true than you mean it to be, in a way that you never intended.
We now know all those stories about Vietnam vets being spat on in airports and whatnot were cynical political inventions, unforgivably manipulate and mostly created by Republican operatives as part of the Reagan propaganda juggernaut.
They were designed to obscure the ugly reality that our government's Vietnam policy had been brutal, murderous, senseless--and horribly costly to US taxpayers, although highly profitable to the military-industrial complex and the fossil fuel industry.
We now know all those stories about Vietnam vets being spat on in airports and whatnot were cynical political inventions, unforgivably manipulate and mostly created by Republican operatives as part of the Reagan propaganda juggernaut.
They were designed to obscure the ugly reality that our government's Vietnam policy had been brutal, murderous, senseless--and horribly costly to US taxpayers, although highly profitable to the military-industrial complex and the fossil fuel industry.
How does the military handle this? It seems we need the same for both the policemen and firemen.
There are a couple of things that I find really disturbing about police behavior. In nearly every instance of major instance of bad policing that I can think of recently, there has been the utter and blatant disregard for the physical well-being of the suspect/victim/individual under their "care". Once they decided the individual was a suspect it's as though their so-called mandate to "protect and serve" fell into utter oblivion. The suspect could bleed out, choke, smother, "break their own neck" riding in unsecured vehicles, lie on the ground while no one called for medical assistance, no matter. That behavior fails as being a basic human being, let alone at being someone we're supposed to respect for their "care" in helping to maintain society.
I also wish the justifications they so often trot out afterwards were of a better quality, Because they're so poor, so rote at this point, it's just more evidence that they think they are above having to justify their actions, and that they really think we are that stupid. Camera batteries just happen to fail at those times, but not apparently when it's actually evidence needed by the police for a conviction. Clever batteries! Just like the clever paperwork that goes missing for documenting weapons training for volunteers, but knows to show up when it's a "real" court case. Police dogs must know exactly what homework is optional.
I want better, smarter policemen doing an important job.
I also wish the justifications they so often trot out afterwards were of a better quality, Because they're so poor, so rote at this point, it's just more evidence that they think they are above having to justify their actions, and that they really think we are that stupid. Camera batteries just happen to fail at those times, but not apparently when it's actually evidence needed by the police for a conviction. Clever batteries! Just like the clever paperwork that goes missing for documenting weapons training for volunteers, but knows to show up when it's a "real" court case. Police dogs must know exactly what homework is optional.
I want better, smarter policemen doing an important job.
3
Thankfully the law enforcement "crime syndicate" is being challenged.
7
Law abiding citizens of NY, Washington, Chicago, LA, et al,
You wil rue the day if and when your police force chooses to stand down when you or your personal property are threatened. What will you do when the same guys who now stand guard while you and yours sleep the sleep of the innocent, begin to just do less? Othwerwise, good luck and best wishes.
You wil rue the day if and when your police force chooses to stand down when you or your personal property are threatened. What will you do when the same guys who now stand guard while you and yours sleep the sleep of the innocent, begin to just do less? Othwerwise, good luck and best wishes.
7
It is unreasonable to think they will ever "do less." They will always provide property protection because property has become more valuable than lives in this society especially in affluent areas. They will never "stand down" because they want to keep their jobs. When they tried standing down as a protest to the demonstrators, the city was fine and peaceful, nothing fell apart and the public began to question and debate why so many police are needed. The police became nervous and re-engaged their responsibilities, realizing that the tactic was in conflict with job their security.
Fun rhetoric, but it's not fated to be an either "be grateful for the status quo" or "live in fear of violent anarchy" situation. We can do better.
1
You mean when they sulk and refuse to do the jobs they are paid to do? They are not saints, Packard, working pro bono, and they are not all to be trusted with unaccountable power. They need to get straight, buck up, and do their jobs with honor. And forget the threats and self-entitled attitudes that your comment so well exemplifies.
Good police keep protecting bad police. The police need to purge their ranks of violent and racist elements to win back respect. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Stop complaining and clean your house.
6
Following and implementing the law is what the job responsibility of a Police Officer calls for. Do those that condone some of the wrongdoings of the cops also condone when other public servants engage in similar behavior? What if your garbage man threw trash all over your yard? You wouldn't be so happy, would you?
3
The isolation of police forces as a political block can't come too soon, the danger to our democracy and civil rights is obvious. Police forces need to realize the are simply public servants like any other, and are not a law unto themselves.
6
An important seemingly overlooked question: What is the ratio of "bad apple" cops compared to the ratio of "bad apple" civilians in any particular community? It seems a natural consequence (though far from ideal) that as the number of problematic acting-out civilians increase; the number of problematic acting-out cops would too. Thus, on the surface it seems apparent that there needs to be shared responsibility for overall improvement in police/civilian relationships. Meaning each community, each family, needs to take responsible for doing whatever is necessary to lessen the amount of dysfunction and criminal acting out behavior in its jurisdiction in conjunction with improvement in policing. One without the other probably won't work and could potentially lead to other serious issues if law enforcement (even the good apple cops) feel their hands are tied while facing the same amount (or even an increased amount) of community criminality.
2
It was a police officer who killed the two terrorists at the anti-Islam exhibit in Texas. He is to be commended for saving countless lives and he is an example of a police officer who puts his life at risk for us. How many of us are willing to do this. Not too many. I want to thank the police for keeping me safe.
Disgusting, anti-police effort. New York Times and Noam Schreiber deserve contempt, condemnation. R.I.P. Brian Moore.
As a native and now thankfully ex-New Yorker who lived through major police corruption scandals and who, as a middle-class white woman, has never seen the cops as our friends, I must still play Devils Advocate re the Blue Wall of Silence or Code of Silence or whatever youd like to call it.
Show me anywhere in this country, in or out of government--in industry, in healthcare, anywhere--where the whistleblower is not demonized, isolated, unsupported, made to lose everything and maybe--if exceptionally lucky and hardy enough to live through years of every sort of harassment--might be vindicated. Most whistleblowers end up losing their livelihoods, their collegial friends, sometimes their families.
Cops and soldiers know that if you begin to protest the corrupt actions of your fellows, you will have a target on your back. Your colleagues will respond less quickly if you need help in the field; you will get the worst assignments and the minor infractions that everyone else gets a pass on will be entered into your record meticulously.
To solve this problem you must alter human nature.
Show me anywhere in this country, in or out of government--in industry, in healthcare, anywhere--where the whistleblower is not demonized, isolated, unsupported, made to lose everything and maybe--if exceptionally lucky and hardy enough to live through years of every sort of harassment--might be vindicated. Most whistleblowers end up losing their livelihoods, their collegial friends, sometimes their families.
Cops and soldiers know that if you begin to protest the corrupt actions of your fellows, you will have a target on your back. Your colleagues will respond less quickly if you need help in the field; you will get the worst assignments and the minor infractions that everyone else gets a pass on will be entered into your record meticulously.
To solve this problem you must alter human nature.
I have great respect and admiration for the job that police do. Public involvement in directing police priorities is part of democracy. Police are government workers and the managers of police must respond to consistent public demand.
2
Finally we as a country are beginning to address the problem of unregulated armed political militias, which is what many city police departments across the nation have become. Like many advocates for the police on this thread I agree that many departments are under funded and cops are called upon to do a difficult job. But I disagree with the characterization that these jobs are "thankless". In many cases, particularly NYC, cops are paid abundantly, which allows them the privilege of not living in or near the communities they police. We laud cops as a matter of reflex and grant them immunity from prosecution, even when video evidence of their wrong doing is made public. It would make sense for conservatives and libertarians to be more concerned about the growing power of police unions as political organizations, which currently hold the authority to keep all their activities, specifically data on their lethal use of firearms, secret. As a relative of a cop I know this is not an example of police at their best. All due respect to the officer who was murdered, his death should not be exploited to warp the pressing civil rights issue of police misconduct.
6
It is the rare profession that is allowed by law to self-regulate. Physicians and other health care providers, for instance, answer to independent regulatory authorities. So do teachers, cosmetologists, taxi drivers, contractors, and many other hard-working and skilled people.
There is no reason, particularly given that police are entrusted with the power to use force in the effort to enforce the law, that police officers answer only to each other. That system does not work. It encourages a culture of covering up law breaking, facilitates cronyism and lying to protect an officer from the consequences of his or her wrongdoing, and hides information from the public.
A true and honest commitment to enforcement of the law includes a willingness to hold police just as accountable for violating it as one holds any other member of society. The police unions dishonor the badge by trying to shield themselves from public scrutiny and, by opposing measures to increase public oversight and their accountability, they increase public distrust of the police. Those are not results which are conducive to increased public safety.
There is no reason, particularly given that police are entrusted with the power to use force in the effort to enforce the law, that police officers answer only to each other. That system does not work. It encourages a culture of covering up law breaking, facilitates cronyism and lying to protect an officer from the consequences of his or her wrongdoing, and hides information from the public.
A true and honest commitment to enforcement of the law includes a willingness to hold police just as accountable for violating it as one holds any other member of society. The police unions dishonor the badge by trying to shield themselves from public scrutiny and, by opposing measures to increase public oversight and their accountability, they increase public distrust of the police. Those are not results which are conducive to increased public safety.
6
Police across America are feeling aggrieved in the current climate, as reported in this and other stories by The Times and other news outlets. The should be unhappy. They have been found out, revealed for what they have become in America.
It is not that police are wrong across the board. Instead, in many cases, they have been sent on the WRONG MISSION and they have, for various reasons, embraced it with gusto. In Ferguson, they were bill collectors with guns and badges, hounding the population night and day over unpaid fees, fines, court appearance failures and therefore acting as the prime tax collectors for the city. This creates constant friction.
In Baltimore, the crackdown on crime resulted in 100,000 arrests in a city of 600,000 in 2006. Who anywhere, outside of a dictatorial regime, would find that acceptable? If that many people actually need to be in jail, they should throw giant bars around the city with everyone imprisoned until proven innocent.
These unfortunate situations, repeated in other places like N. Charleston and across the nation, have been overtopped with excessive "professionalism" that teaches officers to fire their weapons if they can't immediately control a situation and the person seems "unruly". Police unions constantly drill officers on how dangerous their work is, the better to get raises and keep retirement packages, so that we have many hair trigger officers ready to take down anyone at any time using a Taser or a gun.
Doug Terry
It is not that police are wrong across the board. Instead, in many cases, they have been sent on the WRONG MISSION and they have, for various reasons, embraced it with gusto. In Ferguson, they were bill collectors with guns and badges, hounding the population night and day over unpaid fees, fines, court appearance failures and therefore acting as the prime tax collectors for the city. This creates constant friction.
In Baltimore, the crackdown on crime resulted in 100,000 arrests in a city of 600,000 in 2006. Who anywhere, outside of a dictatorial regime, would find that acceptable? If that many people actually need to be in jail, they should throw giant bars around the city with everyone imprisoned until proven innocent.
These unfortunate situations, repeated in other places like N. Charleston and across the nation, have been overtopped with excessive "professionalism" that teaches officers to fire their weapons if they can't immediately control a situation and the person seems "unruly". Police unions constantly drill officers on how dangerous their work is, the better to get raises and keep retirement packages, so that we have many hair trigger officers ready to take down anyone at any time using a Taser or a gun.
Doug Terry
6
Why soft peddle what happened? Just because it's the police involved? This article uses the phrase, "allegations of police overreach" when what was really being "alleged" was torture and murder by police.
6
The police unions are selling "street justice."
What you've got to understand is the police need 5-1 ratios when they are dealing with people fighting back. The police can not handle riots with thousands of people fighting back. That requires the national guard.
We are back to 1968. After the riots in 1968, we made a deal. You stop rioting and we will make both the criminal and civil justice system work. All the attacks on liberal judges was essentially dismantling the reforms following the 1968 riots.
What you've got to understand is the police need 5-1 ratios when they are dealing with people fighting back. The police can not handle riots with thousands of people fighting back. That requires the national guard.
We are back to 1968. After the riots in 1968, we made a deal. You stop rioting and we will make both the criminal and civil justice system work. All the attacks on liberal judges was essentially dismantling the reforms following the 1968 riots.
5
Ever since Ferguson, the media has been watching the country like a hawk, making sure it publicizes every controversial interracial officer-involved shooting. Over about six months, it has found several, two of which have been charged criminally. The media has generally left the impression that all were criminal. Still, it would seem that there are no more than a few outrageous criminal incidents each year. There is great innuendo that many similar cases are being missed. I find that dubious in light of the national attention such matters are getting. To me, it seems quite unlikely that any controversial interracial shooting has escaped notice during the last six months. I am not going to change my attitudes based on what seems to be the skimpiest of evidence. What is needed now -- because there are so few criminal shooings -- is evidence of racism in non-shooting cases. If it's there, we've got a problem.. If not, all this attention is unwarranted. To date, the evidence of racism is anecdotal. Until the hard work of statistical analysis is done --and racism can be proved, as the Justice Department has shown --all this talk of police racism is just talk.
1
If the police leadership isn't making enough of an issue about the excessive use of force (including the preponderance of instances in which racial bias may be a factor), and the media can, then I think this is a great subject for the media to be covering.
It's not just about shootings, it's about every time police abuse their power. Again, a preponderance of anecdotal evidence of abuse of power is a serious matter and the attention is warranted. The police need to be policed, and I appreciate the media's attention on the issue.
It's not just about shootings, it's about every time police abuse their power. Again, a preponderance of anecdotal evidence of abuse of power is a serious matter and the attention is warranted. The police need to be policed, and I appreciate the media's attention on the issue.
So the police are finding out what it's like to be a teacher.
4
Not at all. Teachers generally don't kill their students; most of my acquaintance genuinely care about them.
@jb
And cops don't 'generally kill" citizens. Think it through before you type.
And cops don't 'generally kill" citizens. Think it through before you type.
Actually, police officers typically don't get three months off a year
To any who defend the so called good cops. If you are turning a blind eye to the bad cops you cannot be a good cop.
8
Facts please. Where are the blind eyes?
Police enforce laws which leads to all kinds of conflicts with and criticism from people affected in any community. They often feel like people routinely lie to them and mistrust them which eventually tends to isolate them from the rest of the community. In high crime areas people proudly proclaim that they do not cooperate with police in the solving of even the most heinous crimes because people who do so are snitches, traitors to the community. But everyone expects the police to protect them and to bring the criminals who harm them to justice.
Police on the other hand take an unscientific approach to anticipating criminal activity and to solving crimes. They often take the usual suspects approach which leads them to presume that some people are more likely to prove to be perpetrators of crimes which leads to unreasonable stereotyping like racial profiling. The stereotyping is based upon specific experiences leading to generalizations without adequate rigorous confirmation. The percentage of crimes committed by African Americans is higher than their proportion of the overall population by a small but significant amount but it is not reason to expect most African Americans to be up to no good as racial profiling presumes. Police often look for suspects who seem the most likely perpetrators and then find the evidence to support their suspicions which causes them to help convict the wrong people, confirmed by DNA testing. So police have a lot of hard work to do.
Police on the other hand take an unscientific approach to anticipating criminal activity and to solving crimes. They often take the usual suspects approach which leads them to presume that some people are more likely to prove to be perpetrators of crimes which leads to unreasonable stereotyping like racial profiling. The stereotyping is based upon specific experiences leading to generalizations without adequate rigorous confirmation. The percentage of crimes committed by African Americans is higher than their proportion of the overall population by a small but significant amount but it is not reason to expect most African Americans to be up to no good as racial profiling presumes. Police often look for suspects who seem the most likely perpetrators and then find the evidence to support their suspicions which causes them to help convict the wrong people, confirmed by DNA testing. So police have a lot of hard work to do.
One would think that the honest hard working men & women of the police force would be willing to turn in those co-workers who are giving all members of the fraternity a bad name.
Until that happens, the police will continue to be viewed with disdain by some members of the minority community of which, I am a member.
I know police officers in NYC and CT; I should also point out that I was in a relationship with a white NYC police officer.
Nothing changes if nothing changes!
Until that happens, the police will continue to be viewed with disdain by some members of the minority community of which, I am a member.
I know police officers in NYC and CT; I should also point out that I was in a relationship with a white NYC police officer.
Nothing changes if nothing changes!
4
We have a bunch of public servants who are given a task, guidelines, and equipment for the job. It's not working, due to the guidelines and equipment. The basic problem is applying military or war type tactics to mostly non military situations. We need to think outside the box and find a new approach. In Argentina, kids capture fleeing rabbits with a bola. An electromagnet works better on an armed person barricaded in a house. Walk in and cuff him as he tries to pry his weapons off the wall. Outside the box thinking, we need non lethal capture tools that also keep officers safe.
22
A bola vs a 9mm handgun? Surely you jest.
What military tactics are used by the police?
I'm all for efficient policing.....
But are they ALL heros???
And when even benign actions like traffic enforcement transform into "revenue enhancement", you've got to wonder.
Police (and the courts) have, over time, put them above the law.
Not that O.J. was innocent, but cops DO lie under oath. Believe it or not.
Finally,there is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk civilly about, too many guns.
But are they ALL heros???
And when even benign actions like traffic enforcement transform into "revenue enhancement", you've got to wonder.
Police (and the courts) have, over time, put them above the law.
Not that O.J. was innocent, but cops DO lie under oath. Believe it or not.
Finally,there is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk civilly about, too many guns.
9
While the cops who carried out the wrong acts seen on video may be a few bad apples, I find it hard that other cops support them by not speaking out. Seems like the culture of supporting fellow officers extend to wrong deeds also, and that is not good and needs to be changed. Procedures must be available that support cops who do not go along with wrongdoing (as seen in the videos) or are able to provide information without fear of retaliation.
8
There would be no need for civilian oversight of police departments if police departments engaged in effective supervision of their subordinates. However, like most unions, police unions have become excessively protective and insular. The National Association for Civilian Oversight in Law Enforcement (NACOLE) provided a great deal of positive input to the President's task force on 21st Century policing. NACOLE has also partnered with numerous cities, starting with Ferguson to make positive changes.
https://nacole.org/wp-content/uploads/Brian-Buchner-Testimony-for-the-Pr...
https://nacole.org/wp-content/uploads/Brian-Buchner-Testimony-for-the-Pr...
1
"...the political context in which the police unions have enjoyed a privileged position is rapidly changing. And the unions are struggling to adapt.
“There was a time in this country when elected officials — legislators, chief executives — were willing to contextualize what police do,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a former New York City police officer and prosecutor who now teaches at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “And that time is mostly gone.”
A very overly-broad and sweeping statement, seemimgly projecting more the prejudices of government officials cited here onto the populace. If the police enjoyed a privileged position it was derived from those occupying government offices, not from their "political" strength among the voters.
“There was a time in this country when elected officials — legislators, chief executives — were willing to contextualize what police do,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a former New York City police officer and prosecutor who now teaches at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “And that time is mostly gone.”
A very overly-broad and sweeping statement, seemimgly projecting more the prejudices of government officials cited here onto the populace. If the police enjoyed a privileged position it was derived from those occupying government offices, not from their "political" strength among the voters.
1
As a one-time union member, I cringe to see the clash of police unions with democracy. Many “industrial actions” are a bit undemocratic, but they represent(ed) a way for workers to seek redress for unjust and blatant exploitation. When such “industrial action,” or even the hint of it (e.g., Blue Flu) are used to fire-proof cops who need investigating, the union has crossed the line. I do not include all unions or all public-service unions in this criticism, simply those whose members kill people and get away with it.
When members of the NYPD disrespected their democratically elected mayor, they were telling the voters to go to hell. That, unfortunately, is the society and the democracy shaped by Fox and similar populist rabble rousers. (American pronunciation sometimes makes that "rebel rousers." The original is “rabble rouser.”)
When a spokesman for a police representative body rules a city, as Patrick Lynch did for a time in NYC, democracy is meaningless. There are wonderful, heroic people in cop uniforms, but unfortunately they elect people like Lynch and they back him up. More unfortunately, they remain silent in the face of obvious bad practice and wrong-doing by the bad apples in their ranks.
When members of the NYPD disrespected their democratically elected mayor, they were telling the voters to go to hell. That, unfortunately, is the society and the democracy shaped by Fox and similar populist rabble rousers. (American pronunciation sometimes makes that "rebel rousers." The original is “rabble rouser.”)
When a spokesman for a police representative body rules a city, as Patrick Lynch did for a time in NYC, democracy is meaningless. There are wonderful, heroic people in cop uniforms, but unfortunately they elect people like Lynch and they back him up. More unfortunately, they remain silent in the face of obvious bad practice and wrong-doing by the bad apples in their ranks.
9
"Privileged position......." Since when? Need I remind everyone that it is the tax payers that pay the police their salaries. They chose their profession. Now they should do their jobs - protect and serve - not play executioner.
8
Susan
Of the Tens of Thousands police officers employed in the USA, a very small number of them ever fire their guns in the line of duty in their career. Stop the sensationalization of a few bad apples, which if you are in possession of any cognitive skills, every profession has them!
Of the Tens of Thousands police officers employed in the USA, a very small number of them ever fire their guns in the line of duty in their career. Stop the sensationalization of a few bad apples, which if you are in possession of any cognitive skills, every profession has them!
None of us wants an army for a police force, nor do I want a roving gang of urban terrorists amongst decent citizens either. Most fair minded people surely can see the balance is not so clear. Only once in 20 years have I seen a person who in my mind was being treated abusively by the police. Most arrests I've witnessed, I feel badly for the police. Most times I wonder how the police could be so diplomatic, as I wouldn't be able to hold my cool under such circumstances. It's a tough job and I'm grateful to the cops in New York. The wold suffers more greatly with the loss of a 25 year old Officer Brian Moore, killed by a thug in Queens a few nights ago, than it does by the loss of a criminal. I'm still waiting for the protests over the death of Brian Moore. Not a sound from those who supports violent rioters many of whom have criminal records themselves, but a decent young man serving the public, and we have silence. RIP Brian Moore.
1
Police unions should be advised that having their members 'hit the mattresses' and blog inflammatory and racially provocative comments doesn't win the public's 'hearts and minds.' In fact as evidenced by the polling reported in this paper and elsewhere it simply serves to heighten public anxiety and cement the conviction that the police are overstepping their authority and abusing their public trust.
Being a police officer is extremely difficult in many social settings and there is a well documented behavior that adopts an 'us against them' mentality toward the public. The more adversarial issues become the more pronounced this tendency.
Being a police officer is extremely difficult in many social settings and there is a well documented behavior that adopts an 'us against them' mentality toward the public. The more adversarial issues become the more pronounced this tendency.
3
The code of silence by officers whereby good officers feel they cannot speak out against bad officers for of fear of retaliation. I only have one word for this... Serpico.
9
Having spread war and violence around the globe, it is only logical that it would eventually find its way back home.
Our service members are trained to occupy a foreign country and then return home looking for work. The only place that training has any applicability is in law enforcement.
The vast majority of policemen/women are brave, hard working Americans who subject themselves to danger and immense stress on a daily basis in order to protect us. I for one am very glad to have them around.
But apparently there is a lack of training in the ‘protect and serve’ department as we transition our service members into domestic law enforcement. Clearly the rising tide of abuses we see are coming from a very small minority of inadequately vetted and trained individuals, but we cannot allow this behavior to continue - no matter what it takes.
Our service members are trained to occupy a foreign country and then return home looking for work. The only place that training has any applicability is in law enforcement.
The vast majority of policemen/women are brave, hard working Americans who subject themselves to danger and immense stress on a daily basis in order to protect us. I for one am very glad to have them around.
But apparently there is a lack of training in the ‘protect and serve’ department as we transition our service members into domestic law enforcement. Clearly the rising tide of abuses we see are coming from a very small minority of inadequately vetted and trained individuals, but we cannot allow this behavior to continue - no matter what it takes.
6
We've heard a lot of rhetoric over the years about the Second Amendment being a firewall against "government tyranny." Maybe this is factoring into the law enforcement thinking?
2
Evidence of police brutality is overwhelming. However, I think it's worth a look at a broader picture of power before vilifying the police and its unions as the first attack, remembering another current fashion to point fingers at teachers and blame them (and ostensibly their unions) for all the ills of the world, including failing schools. Police officers and teachers are middle class people. How has legislation by those with a different kind of power, including the funding of prisons and the entire criminal justice system (including the mass incarceration and the school to prison pipeline), shaped the culture for which the individual police person is now under fire for perpetuating?
Gosh, I wish the New York Times would stop throwing around the word "privileged." The police have a privileged position? When my father-in-law died at his home, and the precinct had to send a cop over to the house, I tried to make a little conversation with the young man. How are things, I asked. "You have no idea," he replied.
1
Well, that was his (one) point of view.
Many of us here in Brooklyn know exactly what he meant. And concur.
SadlyIt is the Militarization of our nation on the Global stage that has trickled down into the local municipalities. Now that's a trickle down that has worked.
5
When the police do their job properly, I support them. When they turn into a wolfpack of racist murderers, I don't.
6
Unionized labor. Can't build cars, can't teach kids, can't protect and serve.
1
actually it can, does, and has done.
The only time people are afraid of the truth is when they have something to hide, and the police are very afraid of the truth. They want to do whatever they like and not be called to the floor for it. Strict oversight comes with the job if you don't like it they find other work and let people with integrity take your place.
7
Blue is the new Black. One does wrong, blame them all. A few need or want help, they are all privileged.
What does one call someone who only sees the bad in all of a particular race, religion, ethnic group or profession? Yes, that certainly is the word! Oh it's not tolerance.
What does one call someone who only sees the bad in all of a particular race, religion, ethnic group or profession? Yes, that certainly is the word! Oh it's not tolerance.
The police are supposed to be trained professionals who are held to the highest standards for professionalism and competence in our society. Police have guns - to protect and serve us, not to intimidate and murder their fellow citizens. As such, they need to be on top of their game at all times. Our lives depend on it.
Again Canary you are blaming all for the actions of a few, you are a bigot and it seems comprehension of the written word is not your forte.
The police, just like any members of the organizations created by the people, for the people have a responsibility first and foremost to those people. They have a tough job, a dangerous job and I respect that. However it seems questionable that they would fight an effort by the people they protect and serve to bring more transparency to their efforts. Every group has its problems and I believe on a whole the majority of the police organization is honest and ethical. That being the case I struggle to understand why then the union would fight activities designed to bring more visibility to the struggles they face. Hoping for real leadership ... real change ... is a start, but making it happen will take doing things differently. Let's get moving. The faster we collaborate the faster we can get past this and focus on the future, not just fixing the issues of the day.
39
Let's talk branding and memes here, When the police are being equated with the long arm of a government that no one trusts, and the white sheets of institutionalized racism, they are going to end up with the public popularity of the IRS iced with a thick layer of the Wall Street bonus snobs who just ripped off everyone's retirement savings, neatly wrapped into one odious unwanted warrant. Not what any American's notion of what freedom stands for. Bullies unleashing their indiscriminate use of force against 12 years olds playing in a park turns out to be a bit unpopular as their calling card.
Once the gilt of 9-11 has worn off and they have turned into not saviors protecting us from terrorists, but invaders of privacy with the power to make up evidence as they go, the much needed reversal of reactive militarization of local beat cops is finally starting and reconstruction of reasonable civil liberties can proceed. Demonization of unions is backfiring on them, as we see. Policing, long regarded as a necessary evil and the protector of public safety, is losing luster fast, and the public trust betrayed will prove hard to restore.
Once the gilt of 9-11 has worn off and they have turned into not saviors protecting us from terrorists, but invaders of privacy with the power to make up evidence as they go, the much needed reversal of reactive militarization of local beat cops is finally starting and reconstruction of reasonable civil liberties can proceed. Demonization of unions is backfiring on them, as we see. Policing, long regarded as a necessary evil and the protector of public safety, is losing luster fast, and the public trust betrayed will prove hard to restore.
3
What Americans need is the indictment, prosecution and actual conviction of rogue officers who harm those they are sworn to protect.
Judging by the conviction rate of officers who kill unarmed civilians, the problem isn't civilian overreach, the problem is too much deference to officers who place themselves in harm's way every day. Yes, split-second decisions deserve deference, but we are seeing far too many cases where alternatives other than deadly force were available to officers, and at no additional risk to them. We see pepper spray used to subdue protesters who are already on their knees, or who are simply violating curfew. We see police shooting non-violent offenders for fleeing. The police jump to use violence when it is unequivocally unjustifiable, and that needs to change.
Judging by the conviction rate of officers who kill unarmed civilians, the problem isn't civilian overreach, the problem is too much deference to officers who place themselves in harm's way every day. Yes, split-second decisions deserve deference, but we are seeing far too many cases where alternatives other than deadly force were available to officers, and at no additional risk to them. We see pepper spray used to subdue protesters who are already on their knees, or who are simply violating curfew. We see police shooting non-violent offenders for fleeing. The police jump to use violence when it is unequivocally unjustifiable, and that needs to change.
7
The Achilles Heel of unions is their support or defense of gross incompetence. I understand the role of due process in such cases, but in my workings with union leaders, they would always go beyond making sure the procedural steps should be followed. I would often shake my head at was union efforts to 1) kill the messenger--go after me personally to take the focus off of the performance of incompetent employee; and 2) blaming victims and circumstances for obvious misbehavior/unprofessionalism of the incompetent employee. Over the years, they lost their purpose or legitimacy in my eyes with their predictable advocacy of poor behavior and poor performance and inability to support all programs designed to improved the knowledge and skills of the workers they represented. Just once in my career, I would have had gained some respect for union representatives if they had said to me, we will make sure you follow the rules, but that's is far as we go with this individual.
2
About a year ago, my wife and I were sitting at our dining room table enjoying dinner. Then we saw a car enter our circular driveway from one side and continue through to the other side. I leapt to my feet, left through the front door, and walked over to the car where it had stopped in front of a neighbor's house. Inside the car was a man and a woman. I stood 20 feet away from his car and motioned for him to lower his window. When he did, I told him he had trespassed on my property, and asked him what right he thought he had to trespass. A string of vileness came out of his mouth, and then he came out of his car. He charged and straight-armed me in the chest. A former gymnast, I stood my ground and then phoned the sheriff's department to report the assault. A sheriff came out to interview me and the bully from the car who was standing outside with a group of my neighbor's guests. The sheriff took notes, said nothing to me, and went away without arresting the guy. I waited a couple of weeks to receive the police report for the incident. When I did, I found out the name of the trespassing bully. I went online to learn what I could about the guy who assaulted me. He turned out to be an off-duty cop from a neighboring city. I am a white guy in his late sixties living in an affluent neighborhood. There was no charge of criminal trespass, no charge of assault, no charge of elder abuse, and no apology. It seems to me that too many officers of the law believe they are above the law.
8
As a white person, raised in suburbia, I was taught the police were my friend, and I believed and experienced that until we moved to South Central Los Angeles and a black neighborhood. There, walking the dogs with our teenaged neighbor, we saw him harrassed and humiliated for walking the dogs while black, though we were ignored. We heard stories from people we knew and loved and then had another neighbor experience an intense and near constant level of harrassment over repeated anonymous throw away cell phone accusations that someone was being held hostage in their house, which resulted in one member of the family being hauled from their home and beaten on their front lawn, as well as multiple times when the family home was surrounded by assault rifles and helicopters, despite the police having never found signs of any such hostage, in a house filled with an ordinary extended family.
Now in the Midwest, we hear from people of color that our city is one of the worst for its treatment. I don't believe it. I no longer view the policeman as my friend, and now assume that, while many go into policing as a helping profession, many also become police because of an innate desire to bully, and I also assume that bigotry runs rampant among our officers in blue.
Now in the Midwest, we hear from people of color that our city is one of the worst for its treatment. I don't believe it. I no longer view the policeman as my friend, and now assume that, while many go into policing as a helping profession, many also become police because of an innate desire to bully, and I also assume that bigotry runs rampant among our officers in blue.
9
The system of justice in this country does not allow the police the unrestricted right of judge, jury, and executioner. Yet the increased "militarization" of our police departments often seems to confer that right, permitting acts of violence more aligned with an occupying army than a force of professionally trained peace officers. This attitude often puts them at odds with the very communities of which they should be an integral part.
The police are there to protect the community. If they want to restore their privileged position, then they can do so by relentlessly focusing on what they are paid to be: officers of the peace.
The police are there to protect the community. If they want to restore their privileged position, then they can do so by relentlessly focusing on what they are paid to be: officers of the peace.
3
```` THE UNTOUCHABLES
Police may struggle. but it's all for the good. Changes and improvements were long, long overdue. Police had gotten to be untouchables. and that is not good for them or for the public they serve. -The Colonel
Police may struggle. but it's all for the good. Changes and improvements were long, long overdue. Police had gotten to be untouchables. and that is not good for them or for the public they serve. -The Colonel
1
The Times recently reported that applications for the new class for NYPD are down 15%. Surprised? The report also stated that only 1 out of 10 applicants are accepted. We all know that all cops are not perfect just as all Muslims are not terrorists. But where is the huge public demonstration mourning Office Moore's murder? The grieving seems largely confined to his neighbors, family and the NYPD.
So, with all the denigration of the police so popular here, who will offer their sevices to be policemen?
Or would you prefer anarchy of the gangs, which always lurk in the background?
Or would you prefer anarchy of the gangs, which always lurk in the background?
5
Actually the way the Police behave towards the public these days. Anarchy would be a safer way to live.
As someone with several family members cops, and the rest teachers, dont even bother going there: public employee unions of any kind are a disaster and should be eradicated. As for demanding that anyone who wants to improve the police must become a cop, that's juvenile nonsense.
The policy must understand that by definition, they are under civilian control and oversight, and their continued resistance to that fact will further undermine their credibility and support.
Given the massive number of people unemployed/underemployed, suggesting right now that it would be a challenge to wholesale replace the current police force is ludicrous.
The policy must understand that by definition, they are under civilian control and oversight, and their continued resistance to that fact will further undermine their credibility and support.
Given the massive number of people unemployed/underemployed, suggesting right now that it would be a challenge to wholesale replace the current police force is ludicrous.
1
Those who will uphold Due Process and Equal Protection.
1
Truly astounding commentary, when a young cop just got shot in the head at point blank.
Have you all not have the decency to wait until he is buried before you harp on "police" (I'm sure you mean white police) struggling with the loss of privilege?
You would have a lot more credibility if you at least went through the bridge of "the cop killing in Queens was appalling" before leaping.
Evidently, when agenda rules, logic takes a back seat!
Have you all not have the decency to wait until he is buried before you harp on "police" (I'm sure you mean white police) struggling with the loss of privilege?
You would have a lot more credibility if you at least went through the bridge of "the cop killing in Queens was appalling" before leaping.
Evidently, when agenda rules, logic takes a back seat!
20
And whats your agenda? To continue allowing a corrupt, overly armed political organization like the PBA to continue to harass, intimidate and murder the population?
3
I'm certain she meant all the police, of all the colors of humanity, that go about beating, murdering, violating the rights of citizens, and suppressing evidence.
It's a tragedy that young man died, but there is a serious issue that needs to addressed. A little issue called police brutality.
It's a tragedy that young man died, but there is a serious issue that needs to addressed. A little issue called police brutality.
How are the issues related at all? Should every article about police institutions, including unions, start with a list of cops who died in the line of duty? Should we also not be able to write critically about the military, or Homeland Security?
3
Why are we demonizing entire police departments when there are just a few bad apples? They put their lives on the line every day for us and it has turned into a thankless profession. Anyone who applies to the police academy today needs their head examined.
25
@ KMW
No one is demonizing police forces. And danger like being in the military goes with the job which is a personal choice and for which btw they are well rewarded in terms of pay and conditions. The problem is there are bad apples as you concede. For example should this guy be a senior police officer in your opinion?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-po...
No one is demonizing police forces. And danger like being in the military goes with the job which is a personal choice and for which btw they are well rewarded in terms of pay and conditions. The problem is there are bad apples as you concede. For example should this guy be a senior police officer in your opinion?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-po...
46
"Why are we demonizing entire police departments when there are just a few bad apples?"
Because the rest of the entire police department is doing everything it can to protect the bad apples rather than remove them from the barrel.
Because the rest of the entire police department is doing everything it can to protect the bad apples rather than remove them from the barrel.
17
"We" are demonizing entire police departments because the good apples aren't turning the bad apples in. That makes them accessories to what the bad apples are doing. To paraphrase, all evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.
6
In an interview last week with NPR, Darrell Stephens, former chief of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department in North Carolina and now advisor to both police chiefs and government officials, ended with this quote, which is quite telling: "The police cannot control society without the help of society." CONTROL SOCIETY? I thought their job was to PROTECT and SERVE, not control,
204
"The police cannot control society without the help of society." CONTROL SOCIETY? I thought their job was to PROTECT and SERVE, not control,"
Amazing comment is it not? "Demonize entire Police Depts" says another? It's a safe bet you will find that "Control Society" as opposed to "Protect Society" pretty much anywhere you go. And to dare to question that under ANY circumstance -well that's a Shooting/Killing offense.
And the People dying seem to be the ones who Dared to Question Police Authority. Because when a Citizen DARES to ask a Question. Or even refuse to stop - well Killing them seems to be the Response.
Amazing comment is it not? "Demonize entire Police Depts" says another? It's a safe bet you will find that "Control Society" as opposed to "Protect Society" pretty much anywhere you go. And to dare to question that under ANY circumstance -well that's a Shooting/Killing offense.
And the People dying seem to be the ones who Dared to Question Police Authority. Because when a Citizen DARES to ask a Question. Or even refuse to stop - well Killing them seems to be the Response.
1
You are quite right, "cjm", in suggesting that police in America have forgotten their mission. Society controls itself. Decent people live by common understandings and a desire to both cooperate with others and to have a peaceful existence for themselves. Without that, there is no civilization.
Something happens to people when they put in a badge. They come to believe that they are the actual forces between civilized behavior and chaos, instead of just a corrective force that we, the citizens, allow. One former police official now serving in the state legislature in Maryland, in justifying speed camera fines, said, "We can't have officers everywhere." This presumes that everyone, everywhere will speed all the time unless they are patrolled constantly. Not so. People obey traffic laws because they want to, because they have learned it is best for themselves and others. People stop at red lights at 3:30 in the morning when there are no cars within blocks. That's civilization.
Something happens to people when they put in a badge. They come to believe that they are the actual forces between civilized behavior and chaos, instead of just a corrective force that we, the citizens, allow. One former police official now serving in the state legislature in Maryland, in justifying speed camera fines, said, "We can't have officers everywhere." This presumes that everyone, everywhere will speed all the time unless they are patrolled constantly. Not so. People obey traffic laws because they want to, because they have learned it is best for themselves and others. People stop at red lights at 3:30 in the morning when there are no cars within blocks. That's civilization.
1
Having a good time at the hair splitters convention? I think you know full well what Stephens means. There is no "protecting" against criminal behavior without exerting a measure of "control" on the criminals. How much control should be allowed is up for debate, but most certainly that word is appropriate.
Just the fact that Police are looking for "Privileged Position" is worrying. Arent all men created equal ? Isnt everyone regardless of race, color, economic or social status equal under color of law ?
30
When the police systematically abuse a portion of the population for years, they lose respect. Now, with video we have confirmation of what minorities have been saying for eons. Not to mention direct experience with the police. I have not been abused by NYPD, being white and middle class, however, I have seen many be rude, lose control and act out against citizenry. it's appalling.
However, I have seen the good ones too. The job is difficult no doubt but the police must be held to the highest of standards, because they have the power to completely alter the direction of someones life.
The bad ones must be weeded out, asap.
However, I have seen the good ones too. The job is difficult no doubt but the police must be held to the highest of standards, because they have the power to completely alter the direction of someones life.
The bad ones must be weeded out, asap.
85
It would be interesting to know what percentage of police officers are fired during the course of a 20 to 25 year career. My assumption would be that a very high number stay in the force after they get through training and the first year or two on the job. There is a belief that they have worked their way in, they then have vital experience and should stay unless they commit some significant violation. We might be far better off if 1/3 to 1/2 of officers were shown the door by pr before mid-career.
Almost everyone on police forces is working toward retirement, which can come in some cases as young as the late 40s, early 50s. This becomes the goal: get through until you get that golden parachute that sets you up for whatever you want to do for the last 30 or so years of your life. We should not be giving police officers full pay for life when they are still able to work in other jobs, unless there is strong reason to believe that having been police officers, they are completely ruined for other employment. The system, as it is, is wrong and could be a factor in encouraging the violence by police we have witnessed on video in recent months.
Doug Terry
Almost everyone on police forces is working toward retirement, which can come in some cases as young as the late 40s, early 50s. This becomes the goal: get through until you get that golden parachute that sets you up for whatever you want to do for the last 30 or so years of your life. We should not be giving police officers full pay for life when they are still able to work in other jobs, unless there is strong reason to believe that having been police officers, they are completely ruined for other employment. The system, as it is, is wrong and could be a factor in encouraging the violence by police we have witnessed on video in recent months.
Doug Terry
"Union officials say they have been fulfilling their mandate to protect their members". If a teacher is charged with a crime, does the Teachers Union provide them with legal representation in court? How about a sanitation worker? Any other public sector union? How about any private sector union? Police unions are clearly are NOT the same thing as any other type of union. Any other union exists for the purpose of negotiation their members' terms of employment, not shielding them from prosecution for criminal acts.
21
In New York State, unions provide representation for members who are charged with crimes related to their jobs. It's required by state law.
Shame on Daniel Pantaleo, R.I.P. Eric Garner.
12
Eric Garner the career criminal with 28 prior arrests. BTW, Dan Donovan won the special election yesterday in NY11.
New York State had abolished the death penalty except for killing a police officer until about 2008. I never understood why taking a police officer's life was a more egregious crime than, say, the taking the life of a child or the taking of several lives by a serial killer.
Police are no different than anyone else. They are not "more special" than you or I. If they need to be governed so as to keep themselves under control at all times, so be it.
Police are no different than anyone else. They are not "more special" than you or I. If they need to be governed so as to keep themselves under control at all times, so be it.
27
I was raised to respect and trust the police. Sadly, because of the way some police officers (and their superiors, and their unions) have been behaving (not just in the latest incidents in Baltimore and elsewhere, but also in the treatment of protesters in the Occupy movement several years ago) I now feel that anything could happen to me.
I feel I could be arrested for the flimsiest of reasons, and that I could be badly injured or even killed in the process. And I am white!
The police are in a privileged position, but with privilege comes great responsibility. This is where things have gone off the rails, especially when the position of the PBA is essentially that "a cop cannot have done anything wrong, ever."
Many people apply to join the police department; there needs to be a way to differentiate those who would do a good job from those who enjoy being on a power trip. Better selection and training are definitely needed. The NYPD's slogan - "courtesy, professionalism, respect" - is not being fulfilled.
I feel I could be arrested for the flimsiest of reasons, and that I could be badly injured or even killed in the process. And I am white!
The police are in a privileged position, but with privilege comes great responsibility. This is where things have gone off the rails, especially when the position of the PBA is essentially that "a cop cannot have done anything wrong, ever."
Many people apply to join the police department; there needs to be a way to differentiate those who would do a good job from those who enjoy being on a power trip. Better selection and training are definitely needed. The NYPD's slogan - "courtesy, professionalism, respect" - is not being fulfilled.
31
Its simple, lose the attitude and do the right thing. Just because you think the guy you're yanking around or verbally abusing is a scum bag, its not your job to decide who you'll treat in the fashion you should have been trained for. When you applied it was understood that you were a public servant not a vigilante for your own politically way of believing. If you don't like that then find something more in line with your tolerance level.
40
I live in a middle class community. I'm an older White woman. The other day a police office who should have been directing traffic at a construction site had apparently stepped away to get a coffee. As he returned, holding a giant coffee cup, I was inadvertently going in the wrong lane in an area that was full of trenches and orange cones. I was following the car in front of me.
The officer should have dealt with this courteously. Instead he started screaming and swearing at me. In retrospect, I suppose because if an accident had happened, his being away from his position would have come out.
But do you think this left me with a good impression of our police force? No, it was scary as hell, and left me completely untrusting of them.
The officer should have dealt with this courteously. Instead he started screaming and swearing at me. In retrospect, I suppose because if an accident had happened, his being away from his position would have come out.
But do you think this left me with a good impression of our police force? No, it was scary as hell, and left me completely untrusting of them.
89
@ kat - "I was inadvertently going in the wrong lane in an area that was full of trenches and orange cones. I was following the car in front of me."
Did he leave you with a ticket?
Did he leave you with a ticket?
When I moved to NJ in the early 1990s I learned to fear and loathe local law enforcement. I have been nearly run off the road by cars bearing police union stickers and license plates. Like you, I am a middle-class white woman. I can only imagine how they would treat in immigrant or a poor black man, but I've heard plenty of horror stories.
I once asked a simple question of a police officer -- and was given a surly, impolite reply. I'm an old white lady too. Cops are not nice people.
2
Personally, I would rather have the Police over react than lose another Officer Moore.If you look like a duck, walk like a duck, & talk like a duck, chances are you are a duck, & rather than risk your life draw your gun & be ready to defend yourself.How many of the so called over reactions by the Police had clean records, & were up standing citizens ? This is not to say that they had to be killed, but if it's a choice between losing another Officer Moore,the answer should be clear.The law must be in favor of those that up hold the law ,not those whose intention is to break the law, besides, they now have to carry those ridiculous cameras, which may cause them to hesitate too long to save their life. In this atmosphere of politically correct phony Politicians, why would anyone want to be a Policeman.God Bless & protect them all,, & thank you for your service.
15
This comment is surely satire.
"The law must be in favor of those that up hold (sic) the law"
Well that is the problem, many police officers have NOT been upholding the law whether they ACT criminally or are witnesses to an act by their colleagues.
A Police Officer's Pledge does not include JUDGE, JURY and EXECUTIONER.
We as citizens should not cherry pick incidents when they occur, we must SPEAKOUT for the many LAWABIDING Police Officers who a can't.
Well that is the problem, many police officers have NOT been upholding the law whether they ACT criminally or are witnesses to an act by their colleagues.
A Police Officer's Pledge does not include JUDGE, JURY and EXECUTIONER.
We as citizens should not cherry pick incidents when they occur, we must SPEAKOUT for the many LAWABIDING Police Officers who a can't.
God Bless each and every human being no matter what profession they choose. I imagine you would change your mind and not be so wholeheartedly blindsighted by police idolization if you were handcuffed just because you ran to catch a bus. I have family members who are police and they are good people, but they can tell you stories about those who are not so good, and you would change your commentary in a heartbeat.
2
American police are accustomed to getting away with terrible abuses of people and now, because of a seemingly unending series of abuses caught on video, that is changing.
For the first time, Americans are able to see what poor and minority people have been saying forever: the police routinely abuse them and even kill them simply because they want to.
For the first time, Americans are able to see what poor and minority people have been saying forever: the police routinely abuse them and even kill them simply because they want to.
46
Snug in your beds at night? Your neighborhood is safe? Did you ever stop to thank the police? They seem to be expendable now. I remember when President George H.W. Bush kept the shield of a cop assassinated in NYC in his desk. The mother of the slain cop gave it to him. Contrast that with President Obama and the Cambridge incident. Or with de Blasio, the cop basher. These are bad years to be a cop in America. I know what speak of. I was there. I would dread being one now.
32
So, police only need reverence, respect, more overtime pay, better pensions but no criticism whatsoever no matter how many of 'those' unarmed young men die at the hands of police?
18
This isn't about the professional, dedicated Police Officers who rightfully deserve our respect and admiration; it's about thugs who have no business wearing the uniform. Why are so many pretending to have a problem seeing the difference?
27
Snug in my bed at night? No. The clearance rate for burglaries in my community is 13%. Instead of just knee-jerk assuming that the police are doing a good job, check it out for yourself:
http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395799413/how-many-crimes-do-your-police-c...
http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395799413/how-many-crimes-do-your-police-c...
22
It would do all police departments good to look at the training people get to become police officers. Learning to diffuse a situation sometimes is better than using a gun. Get out and start to get to know your community instead of riding in a car all day with dark sunglasses on. This would help keep out of danger those police officers who try to do their job right.
36
We recently had a campus cop who was fired for refusing to use a taser on a student who was threatening to harm himself. He sued to get his job back and I haven't heard how the suit turned out. But the city police who also responded were the ones who lodged the complaint. They said the campus cop's efforts to talk the student down put them in danger.
It's this sort of response and behavior that have given police a bad name. They actively attack fellow officers who behave well.
It's this sort of response and behavior that have given police a bad name. They actively attack fellow officers who behave well.
That privileged position was their's to lose. And so they have.
125
Enforce the laws they are made for both the police and regular citizen to obey. Do that and you have my support. Break the law in the name of Justice and you will not have my support. This really doesn't have anything to do with unions only union bosses who have lost touch with reality.
40
Amen. The day police unions stop throwing dirt at others and focus on equal enforcement of laws is the day Police will regain the respect.
It is about the bosses I support Unions because they are essential to a just society.
I feel the lawyers for these police unions, from nyc to baltimore, say some of the most inflamatory and off the wall comments that run counter to the will and common sense of the people they work for.
Why do they all sound like Wayne LaPierre with the NRA?
Constant denial mode!
Why do they all sound like Wayne LaPierre with the NRA?
Constant denial mode!
60
Can you give any examples?
Sure!
1. "In Baltimore, the local police union president accused protesters angry at the death of Freddie Gray of participating in a “lynch mob."
2. March 2008: Lynch claimed an art installation called “The Blue Wall of Violence” that addressed police brutality was “promoting hate.
3. July 2010: Lynch defended a cop who was videotaped shoving a bicyclist off his bike by calling the victim an “anarchist”:
4. December 2014: Lynch blamed Eric Garner for his own death at the hands of a N.Y.P.D. officer:“We feel badly that there was a loss of life,” said Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association. “But unfortunately Mr. Garner made a choice that day to resist arrest.”
5. June 2000: Lynch argued that Bruce Springsteen’s song about four NYPD officers shooting and killing an unarmed 23-year-old named Amadou Diallo was interfering with those (acquitted) officers’ “healing”:
1. "In Baltimore, the local police union president accused protesters angry at the death of Freddie Gray of participating in a “lynch mob."
2. March 2008: Lynch claimed an art installation called “The Blue Wall of Violence” that addressed police brutality was “promoting hate.
3. July 2010: Lynch defended a cop who was videotaped shoving a bicyclist off his bike by calling the victim an “anarchist”:
4. December 2014: Lynch blamed Eric Garner for his own death at the hands of a N.Y.P.D. officer:“We feel badly that there was a loss of life,” said Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association. “But unfortunately Mr. Garner made a choice that day to resist arrest.”
5. June 2000: Lynch argued that Bruce Springsteen’s song about four NYPD officers shooting and killing an unarmed 23-year-old named Amadou Diallo was interfering with those (acquitted) officers’ “healing”:
1
6. February 2004: Lynch called for the resignation of then-commissioner Ray Kelly after Kelly said that there “appears to be no justification” for the shooting an unarmed teenager named Timothy Stansbury.
7. October 2011: Lynch defended the widespread but illegal practice of ticket-fixing as institutionally sanctioned within the N.Y.P.D. (and therefore above the law):When asked about ticket fixing, Lynch stated, “Ticket fixing was conduct accepted at all ranks for decades.”
8. June 2012: Lynch pilloried the New York Civil Liberties Union for “insulting” NYPD officers by creating a smartphone app that lets users record stop-and-frisk encounters and notify other users of nearby police activity.
Regarding Lapierre, who can forget: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Or, “We have blood-soaked films out there, like ‘American Psycho,’ ‘Natural Born Killers’ that are aired like propaganda loops on splatter days.”
And, “And throughout it all, too many in the national media, their corporate owners and their stockholders act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.”
Finally, “There exists in this country, sadly, a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people through vicious and violent video games.”
7. October 2011: Lynch defended the widespread but illegal practice of ticket-fixing as institutionally sanctioned within the N.Y.P.D. (and therefore above the law):When asked about ticket fixing, Lynch stated, “Ticket fixing was conduct accepted at all ranks for decades.”
8. June 2012: Lynch pilloried the New York Civil Liberties Union for “insulting” NYPD officers by creating a smartphone app that lets users record stop-and-frisk encounters and notify other users of nearby police activity.
Regarding Lapierre, who can forget: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Or, “We have blood-soaked films out there, like ‘American Psycho,’ ‘Natural Born Killers’ that are aired like propaganda loops on splatter days.”
And, “And throughout it all, too many in the national media, their corporate owners and their stockholders act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.”
Finally, “There exists in this country, sadly, a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people through vicious and violent video games.”
1
I think the turning point is more subtle than merely Ferguson, et al.
I think the change in police status requires the majority white population to internalize their sense of police abuse and I don't think that yet another minority shot by the police is what's doing this.
I think the internalization by whites is as much a function of their own sense of persecution even if it pales in comparison to the minority experience. More or less since 9/11, America seems to be more and more of a security state -- airports, public buildings, public places have at minimum a paramilitary police presence and many have invasive and impersonal screenings and pat-downs to do ordinary daily behaviors. In large parts of the Southwest you have to stop at Border Patrol checkpoints when you've not even crossed the border and are miles from it.
Police stops for traffic enforcement turn into enforced detention and drug searches with a heavy punitive focus on marijuana, something many Americans believe shouldn't be illegal.
Yet when your house is broken into or your car stolen, you get a shrug from the police and advice to call your insurance company.
If America has reached a turning point on the police, it's (sadly, perhaps) not a reflection of police brutality towards minorities, it's a reflection that even white people feel put upon by an intrusive police presence that treats everyone as suspect and doesn't really help anyone when they need it.
I think the change in police status requires the majority white population to internalize their sense of police abuse and I don't think that yet another minority shot by the police is what's doing this.
I think the internalization by whites is as much a function of their own sense of persecution even if it pales in comparison to the minority experience. More or less since 9/11, America seems to be more and more of a security state -- airports, public buildings, public places have at minimum a paramilitary police presence and many have invasive and impersonal screenings and pat-downs to do ordinary daily behaviors. In large parts of the Southwest you have to stop at Border Patrol checkpoints when you've not even crossed the border and are miles from it.
Police stops for traffic enforcement turn into enforced detention and drug searches with a heavy punitive focus on marijuana, something many Americans believe shouldn't be illegal.
Yet when your house is broken into or your car stolen, you get a shrug from the police and advice to call your insurance company.
If America has reached a turning point on the police, it's (sadly, perhaps) not a reflection of police brutality towards minorities, it's a reflection that even white people feel put upon by an intrusive police presence that treats everyone as suspect and doesn't really help anyone when they need it.
127
Best and most insightful comment here. If trust is lost by local police among the local entitled, then things will change.
We created bad cops. Our policies of mass incarcerations encourage bad policing. Our flooding of society with guns has put the cops on edge. If everyone is carrying a gun, anyone can kill a cop. That fear is causing cops to become super aggressive.
Our societal decline of mutual respect has infected the police also. The proliferation of hate speech legitimizes demeaning others. We call it free speech but individual rights are jeopardized when some people are viewed as being less valued than others.
Instead of being our protectors, the police are becoming our tormentors. They are just doing exactly what we want them to do. We have all lost the privilege of respect for each other.
Our societal decline of mutual respect has infected the police also. The proliferation of hate speech legitimizes demeaning others. We call it free speech but individual rights are jeopardized when some people are viewed as being less valued than others.
Instead of being our protectors, the police are becoming our tormentors. They are just doing exactly what we want them to do. We have all lost the privilege of respect for each other.
63
You have said it all very eloquently. Thank you.
I don't own weapons, including guns, to protect myself exclusively from criminals.
Wow! You nailed it. I recently said the same thing about the proliferation of guns on the streets--especially among people who shouldn't have them. I'm sure that makes cops feel under threat. But there are better ways to deal with that. Having police stand up to the NRA would be a good start.
The Union was the problem we ben dealing in previous years and today some one who truly understand the law needs to review this situation and do the appropriate changes needed, for the love of god..
3
I am confused as to why police feel they lost their "privileged" position.
They are public employees just like fireman, services department employees and mail delivery people. Is their job more dangerous than other public employees? Perhaps in some cases but that does and should not give them a privilege others don't have.
They should be held accountable to and by their management and perform their jobs as their management expects them to and not in a manner they seem fit even if their management expects different.
Just do your job like everyone else does is all I ask.
They are public employees just like fireman, services department employees and mail delivery people. Is their job more dangerous than other public employees? Perhaps in some cases but that does and should not give them a privilege others don't have.
They should be held accountable to and by their management and perform their jobs as their management expects them to and not in a manner they seem fit even if their management expects different.
Just do your job like everyone else does is all I ask.
40
Police have worked hard and diligently to earn their position of disrespect.
Harassing citizens (broken window policing), brutalizing citizens, lying as sworn officers of the court, taking bribes, protecting the thin blue line, and so on.
In all of this discussion, we too often forget about who works for whom.
Harassing citizens (broken window policing), brutalizing citizens, lying as sworn officers of the court, taking bribes, protecting the thin blue line, and so on.
In all of this discussion, we too often forget about who works for whom.
126
The interest in serving the “greater good” in America; not only by Police Departments, but also Firefighters, Nurses, Teachers---and the list goes on ad nauseam; has been replaced by a blind, unquestioning, and self-serving loyalty to the organization and its members. We see this in the work of the Unions and the Lawyers who represent them, glitzy self-promotion, and political lobbying and bully tactics.
While there is nothing wrong with having a voice, there is something wrong with using it to defend indefensible policies or protecting the “rotten apples” of the organization.
While there is nothing wrong with having a voice, there is something wrong with using it to defend indefensible policies or protecting the “rotten apples” of the organization.
17
I watched a police,citizen event unfold from beginning to end the other day. Two civilians, one man one women. Probably man and wife. Five uniforms..Two of the policemen seemed more interested in establishing their authority then understanding the situation...I believe therein lies the cause of many tragedies.
Men trying, for whatever need their personality requires, to assert their unquestionable authority over another human being.
Men trying, for whatever need their personality requires, to assert their unquestionable authority over another human being.
I think the roots of today's problems with policing lie back in the 1970s. Whatever else happened, people were disturbed by the threat of anarchy they saw in protests and riots. Fear of anarchy was a potent political weapon.
No one seems sure what caused high crime rates at the same time. Maybe it was the large cohort of young men in the Baby Boom bubble. Maybe it was the failure of expectations that arose from the Civil Rights Act. Maybe it was another reaction to the Vietnam War. It could have arisen in the decay of traditional morality.
If the causes are debatable, the reaction is clear: tougher laws and law enforcement and the Conservative Revolution. Have we now reached another tipping point where enough people really want something different? It's not just about law enforcement; it's about the way society is structured.
No one seems sure what caused high crime rates at the same time. Maybe it was the large cohort of young men in the Baby Boom bubble. Maybe it was the failure of expectations that arose from the Civil Rights Act. Maybe it was another reaction to the Vietnam War. It could have arisen in the decay of traditional morality.
If the causes are debatable, the reaction is clear: tougher laws and law enforcement and the Conservative Revolution. Have we now reached another tipping point where enough people really want something different? It's not just about law enforcement; it's about the way society is structured.
40
Conservative revolution? That is an oxymoron. Conservatives, by nature, do not have revolutions. They want to keep things the same.
I think you are right. In the early 1970s I was a college student in Boston, the epicenter of the anti-war movement. The cops hated students and went out of their way to antagonize them. The Boston PD created the Tactical Patrol Force at this time, essentially young combat veterans with huge batons, helmets and face quards, who viciously attacked anti-war protesters while their commanders passively watched. And I think it has only gotten worse with time. Last year I was bringing groceries into my house and I was aggressively questioned by a patrolman and asked to see my ID. I asked the cop if burglary suspects often bring things into the house they are burglarizing which only made him more angry. And in NJ, all drivers are seen as a revenue source for minor traffic infractions. They need to be controlled.
As long as good cops protect bad cops the loss of respect will continue to grow.
Allowing PDs to buy all that surplus military hardware, they begin to perceive themselves as an occupying force. That becomes exacerbated when the officers no longer live in and or are part of the communities they serve. Only 27% of Baltimore PD actually live in the city and again they begin to act as occupiers.
"Guilty until proven innocent" has replaced "To serve & protect." Until the police POLICE themselves first by ridding themselves of those unfit to wear the uniform coupled with much better training, citizen's trust will continue to decline.
Allowing PDs to buy all that surplus military hardware, they begin to perceive themselves as an occupying force. That becomes exacerbated when the officers no longer live in and or are part of the communities they serve. Only 27% of Baltimore PD actually live in the city and again they begin to act as occupiers.
"Guilty until proven innocent" has replaced "To serve & protect." Until the police POLICE themselves first by ridding themselves of those unfit to wear the uniform coupled with much better training, citizen's trust will continue to decline.
16
It is appalling that the police unions are not making every effort to weed out the bad cops. Worse still, they feel they are fully justified in subjecting a group of Americans with disproportionately high rates of harassment, arrests and brutality. All the while defending it through fear mongering. The citizen video footage is supporting what the African American community have been accusing the police of doing for years.
The police unions should be abolished. The police force is a law enforcement agency that has firearms and paramilitary equipment. They should be regulated and overseen like the US military. The US military have no unions and its members are subject to military court martial.
The police unions should be abolished. The police force is a law enforcement agency that has firearms and paramilitary equipment. They should be regulated and overseen like the US military. The US military have no unions and its members are subject to military court martial.
6
The fact that crime is down may be somewhat coincidental to tough policing tactics. It has been argued that changing demographics (simply less people in the more crime prone age group) and altered drug distribution practices (the crack epidemic causing street dealers to move indoors to avoid rip off artists) may have impacted crime statistics. In any event in a free society it seems obvious that the citizens should have a major say in how they are policed. Just as the police are concerned about "larger institutional threats" so are the people concerned about the seemingly ingrained philosophy that police have a privileged position above the average person and perhaps above the law itself. If someone dies as a direct result of your actions you should expect to be held accountable for something and if this accountability seems lacking perhaps it's time for a new systematic way of policing the police.
3
We pay then low pay and expect them to die for us. They work several "second jobs" to afford their families. Like we pay teachers low salaries to educate our children. Our priorities suck, Cops and teachers should be paid huge salaries instead of those sports players who make millions, even the mediocre baseball and football players.
3
Police pay is not the topic here. Police don't get to brutalize or kill people without being held to account. That's the topic.
Police get paid very well, from day one. And most of them earn very nice overtime wages, starting one second after their shift ends. They work second jobs because they want to accrue more money to retire (more) comfortably because in this country, money = security.
"the union backed an aggressive mailing campaign against her."
How did the police become an impregnable force against their own society?
How did the police become an impregnable force against their own society?
10
They didn't "become" such. They began as such.
As long as the Patriot Act -- fighting the enemy within -- is the law of the land, law enforcement forces will feel empowered over citizens' control. The recent incident in Texas will be used to keep the status quo.
2
Police in the US have to worry about being shot. That is seldom the case in other western countries. That leads to different selection of new cops, fear, violence and arrogance in some and lack of politeness in many.
3
The changes raised in this article must be repeated around the country and repeatedly covered in the news. Very important and significant stuff here.
3
Civilian oversight of police department is necessary for not only the benefit of the civilian population but police officers also. I'm old enough to remember the Knapp Commission of the early 70's in which it uncovered a vast corruption within the NYC police department where honest officers were afraid of turning in the corrupt ones for fear of reprisals.
To be a police officer in any major city is a difficult and dangerous job. Oversignt commities can help weed out the bad eggs and protect the good ones for the benefit of both the police force and the city populations that they are sworn to protect
To be a police officer in any major city is a difficult and dangerous job. Oversignt commities can help weed out the bad eggs and protect the good ones for the benefit of both the police force and the city populations that they are sworn to protect
19
We need to demilitarize the police and correct their thinking: they need to act like they understand that they're paid by the public to protect, serve and respect the public, not for murdering citizens (as per the Peelian Principals). The police unions need to be slapped down and their political influence muzzled.
Like many areas of America, we are way out of balance.
Like many areas of America, we are way out of balance.
12
Here in conservoland, of you want the police to back off and de-police, well that happens in black nabes, high crime ones, be careful what you ask for
Hint to bad guys - don't want to get shot? - hands up don't shoot
good advice, take it
Hint to bad guys - don't want to get shot? - hands up don't shoot
good advice, take it
1
Although we want to personalize the events currently occurring and cite the good cops, not all cops are bad, etc; what we are witnessing is an institutional problem with the police currently. There are officers that do abuse their authority and power and break the law in doing so. The problem for the so called good cops is that they silently and tacitly allow the law to be broken by their silence and lack of action, the infamous blue wall.
Police have psychological tests done during recruiting and training but I believe there is no current established followup testing done on a routine basis. Young people then are exposed to our ugly underbelly and may see the results of violent human behavior, death, destruction of humanity, abuse of one human on another, rape effects, auto accident trauma, etc. Maybe it is time to consider re-evaluating the emotional toll that has to occur when forced to watch human depravity in action. It is not about good or bad cops at this point but when one human has seen enough of what other humans can do to each other. Who would be surprised by what then happens?
Police have psychological tests done during recruiting and training but I believe there is no current established followup testing done on a routine basis. Young people then are exposed to our ugly underbelly and may see the results of violent human behavior, death, destruction of humanity, abuse of one human on another, rape effects, auto accident trauma, etc. Maybe it is time to consider re-evaluating the emotional toll that has to occur when forced to watch human depravity in action. It is not about good or bad cops at this point but when one human has seen enough of what other humans can do to each other. Who would be surprised by what then happens?
6
This is only the very beginning of a change which might just peter out. The core problem with police is they are largely immune from the consequences of their bad actions and they know it. And laws shield them. In New York City, for example, the prior bad conduct of police is not usually available to defense attorneys to impeach testimony. Where else can someone be a serial liar even in court and the attorney cannot find that out?
24
The militarization of cops is just a small part of the plan. The level of ignorance, indifference and clear racism amongst police is epidemic. As the bankers/wall street direct federal and local officials to use police as weapons against us they continue their private wars across the planet while they own and control the news and media outlets controlling and creating the news to fit their agendas. They want cops to become comfortable with the ideas of killing civilians and are counting on this force of ignorance to carry out their agenda no matter what the cost to society and humanity. Cop's have been framing and killing the innocent throughout history we just get to see more of it on cell phone videos and Youtube. The local sheriffs department where I live never walk the streets just hide in their over militarized cop cars and trucks waiting for the chance to use all their new military grade weapons left over from the wars we've lost against us. "Taking their money and put them in jail". The only thing more dysfunctional than the police in this country is the justice system. What a synergy they both make.
14
Lots of criticism of the police unions (most of which I agree with) but what about the defacto 'union' we see in congress and call political parties?
Gerrymandering to ensure elections is the same as arresting without a cause because it takes away rights of citizens to the American guarantee of fairness and majority rule in elections.
Gerrymandering to ensure elections is the same as arresting without a cause because it takes away rights of citizens to the American guarantee of fairness and majority rule in elections.
12
Aren't we over reacting just a little bit. I do agree that police should not be judge and jury and should not be killing some of the black men that have been killed recently, but to put all police and police departments into the category of killing people at will is wrong.
How may police are there in the USA? How many police departments are there in the USA? What percentage of police actually kill or even think about killing someone while in the line of duty.
How may police are there in the USA? How many police departments are there in the USA? What percentage of police actually kill or even think about killing someone while in the line of duty.
8
Reacting a little bit??? Huh !!! The premise of "a few bad apples:" has been thrown out the window. Police department through-out the country are riddled with corruption, racism, and every cop who closes his eyes to that is complicit.
3
You do know statistically you are more likely to be killed by a police officer then a terrorist. Just saying
1
Most citizens do not believe that the police should answer to no one but themselves. That only the police should review complaints and behavior, without civilian involvement.
While many of us do not believe that all cops support the actions of the more reactionary and violent, we do see that none of the rank and file speak out against another officer. Terefor, by not oposing or taking any action, they are enabling them.
Civilians MUST control their armed forces, whether it is the military or the police. We simply must. It does not make us anti military/police--it assures the democracy and is just common sense.
While many of us do not believe that all cops support the actions of the more reactionary and violent, we do see that none of the rank and file speak out against another officer. Terefor, by not oposing or taking any action, they are enabling them.
Civilians MUST control their armed forces, whether it is the military or the police. We simply must. It does not make us anti military/police--it assures the democracy and is just common sense.
41
In he inner cities and in some suburbs the police are militarized, act as if they are in combat, and have completely abandoned the 4th Amendment because of the "war on drugs." In many ways, they are want-to-be soldiers. Hey, here is some breaking news for you, police unions: there are no unions in the U.S. military.
Funny, but civilian oversight of the military is deeply embedded in the culture of the U.S. military. But, not in U.S. police culture.
Funny, but civilian oversight of the military is deeply embedded in the culture of the U.S. military. But, not in U.S. police culture.
33
Shouldn't the police start testing the people in their precincts? And be responsible for their scores. I know this makes no sense. Like it makes no sense that teachers are responsible for the students that live in their precincts. At the same time those precincts need to learn the value of having good cops and teachers. Ministers and politicians might put that at the top of their agendas.
1
With great power comes great responsibility.
12
Think about how police are selected. There is a physical test and a civil service test to determine their knowledge base of policing procedures and the law. Often times a personality test such as the MMPI, an assessment of psychopathology is employed. What is missing, to the best of my knowledge, from those selection procedures is an assessment of the candidate's ability to build bonds with the communities they are policing, the essence of community policing. That doesn't mean that many officers don't have the ability, just that it has not been given enough weight to be included in selection procedures.
48
Most cities are begging for cops to sign up, so it is not like they have a large pool of candidates to choose from. And how would you assess a "candidate's ability to build bonds with the communities they are policing"? Seems pretty hard to do before someone is even hired.
I have been involved in the police recruitment process. And although I can only speak for my experiences in the city of San Francisco, I was shocked at how candidates who clearly had a questionable ability to think through presented situations rationally and objectively were given perfectly acceptable grades by the existing officers who were (also) part of the hiring process.
To me this said more about the existing officers than the candidates, as they seemed to be completely unaware of the value of rational thought in their jobs.
To me this said more about the existing officers than the candidates, as they seemed to be completely unaware of the value of rational thought in their jobs.
45
How were you involved in the hiring process and what are your qualifications to judge an applicant's "value of rational thought.
Even though police departments like New York have diversified their rank and file, admitting more women and people of color, they are still largely refuges for a certain kind of male, resentful over the fact that their privileges have eroded in other parts of society. The uniform, badge and gun allow them them to dangerously express that resentment, consciously or not.
9
I am sure we will hear about how dangerous a job the police have to make the case for shooting with such frequency. Well, the number of fatalities for police in 2012 was 95 (FBI data). The number of fatalities of farm workers in 2012 was 374 (CDC). Try again.
19
Police are not even the most likely profession to be shot while on the job: Cabbies and convenience store clerks both face a higher risk of being murdered than police officers.
1
The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Fishers and related fishing workers
2. Logging workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
5. Roofers
6. Structural iron and steel workers
7. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
10. Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadli...
1. Fishers and related fishing workers
2. Logging workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
5. Roofers
6. Structural iron and steel workers
7. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
10. Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadli...
1
When a farm worker dies on the job, it's usually an accident. When a cop dies in the job, it's usually a homicide.
Your turn.
Your turn.
President Nixon started the “war” on drugs, and the subsequent militarization of our modern police. For the last forty-plus years, the police in this country have been given weapons from our real wars, legal backing for all kinds of civil rights violations, and have been exonerated by the courts in almost all their use of force cases, even those that have resulted in the death of innocents.
While it isn’t surprising that the police would object to any oversight, it is beyond time for citizens to start demanding some answers and accountability. The police, after all, are here to protect all citizens
We are not safer when we don’t know the facts.
We are not safer when our rights are abridged in the name of security.
We are not safer when the legal system is weighted in favor of of one over another.
While it isn’t surprising that the police would object to any oversight, it is beyond time for citizens to start demanding some answers and accountability. The police, after all, are here to protect all citizens
We are not safer when we don’t know the facts.
We are not safer when our rights are abridged in the name of security.
We are not safer when the legal system is weighted in favor of of one over another.
11
A nationwide return to community policing is the only solution to this problem.
4
I am not supporting police brutality but I'm upset at the way the media frames this as a "union" issue, instead of a leadership issue. Framing it as a "union" issue conveys the impression basically attacks middle class workers (yet again) while leaving leadership & politicians untouched (again), while ignoring the bigger picture (again) of laws like the "war on drugs," which pressure police to have good numbers for this or that politician or judge wanting to be elected & for private prisons to get their money.
If brutality is endemic, that is a problem with leadership & our *own* vision of what police should do. Focusing on "the union" doesn't explain how some police districts have had great records within their community (still unionized).
Of course police have individual responsibility but we must ask ourselves if anything would change if the union were absolved. I think not. Indeed, I think it would only make police more powerless to go against leadership & political expectations. Plus it would drive down salary, thus making the career of a police officer, wherein you risk your life every day & undergo many traumatic interactions, even *less* desirable to qualified people. Please stop the trend of this nascent century that is increasingly bent on absolving leadership of any responsibility & shifting blame downwards.
To enact true change we must look at the top, the bigger picture. That means all players, not just the representatives of middle class workers.
If brutality is endemic, that is a problem with leadership & our *own* vision of what police should do. Focusing on "the union" doesn't explain how some police districts have had great records within their community (still unionized).
Of course police have individual responsibility but we must ask ourselves if anything would change if the union were absolved. I think not. Indeed, I think it would only make police more powerless to go against leadership & political expectations. Plus it would drive down salary, thus making the career of a police officer, wherein you risk your life every day & undergo many traumatic interactions, even *less* desirable to qualified people. Please stop the trend of this nascent century that is increasingly bent on absolving leadership of any responsibility & shifting blame downwards.
To enact true change we must look at the top, the bigger picture. That means all players, not just the representatives of middle class workers.
8
In a democracy it is only right that there be civilian oversight of the police who act as a paramilitary group. It would be helpful to the cause of street level policing if the police did not have to act as social workers for mentally ill people who have found themselves discharged to the street. Mental health care in America for the poor and the homeless is not up to the standards of quality care. Street level policing needs support to deal with situations that require special assistance. If the police are acting as if they have "special privileges" it is because we placed way too much responsibility on their shoulders.
5
Fortunately for office Brian Moore in New York, he died. He would have been in real trouble if he had shot the criminal that killed him. The Times editorial page, Al Sharpton and the the New York City mayor would have made his life hell.
4
As a nurse, I am a member of a privileged and respected group. We earn it by tirelessly serving others, not demanding it. There's a lesson there for police.
21
I support and appreciate the bravery and work of the 90% of police everywhere who serve and protect us. I do not and will not support the 10% of emotionally disturbed, racist and violent police who are giving the rest a bad name. They need to go, do something else for a living.
13
Police have much in common with Big Pharma - much of the public is critical until they (personally) are in a position of need, then whatever it takes. As for the polls critical of Lynch and the police turning their back on de Blasio, make no mistake, de Blasio was wrong, should have apologized and his mentality (actions) have surely changed since his mistake.
6
Lynch works for the mayor - not the other way around. When he ordered his officers to turn their backs on the mayor, both he and those officers should have been punished, up to and including termination.
How long would you last at your job if you spoke about your boss in such a disrespectful way the way Lynch did?
How long would you last at your job if you spoke about your boss in such a disrespectful way the way Lynch did?
1
"..allegations of overreach..." you say? Did you mean to say the deliberate killing of unarmed black men?
5
Getting rid of, or emaciating, police unions will not change the dysfunctional culture that police face everyday.
It will make activists and other perennial critics happy for now.
And when non=union police officers are involved in deadly encounters, how will we, as always, come up with flash answers to our numerous societal problems?
America, we have communities that produce a totally dysfunctional set of expectations for young men.
When we all raise our young men with higher expectations, we just may talk less and less about the bad apples wearing a badge and carrying a gun.
It will make activists and other perennial critics happy for now.
And when non=union police officers are involved in deadly encounters, how will we, as always, come up with flash answers to our numerous societal problems?
America, we have communities that produce a totally dysfunctional set of expectations for young men.
When we all raise our young men with higher expectations, we just may talk less and less about the bad apples wearing a badge and carrying a gun.
1
"Bad apples" wearing a badge and carrying a gun shouldn't be tolerated, regardless of your other points.
If there was a Mt. Rushmore for the people who finally brought the police back where they belong: serving and protecting citizens, not being a paramilitary force, the faces would be Rodney King, Michael Brown, Freddy Gray and the man in Staten Island.
Police misconduct, planting evidence, false reports, conspiracy of silence and enabling Prosecutors like the ones in Ferguson and Staten Island, have all reached the tipping point. Citizens of both colors are tired of police intimidation. Maybe long prison terms for the "Baltimore 6" will finally drive the point home.
Police misconduct, planting evidence, false reports, conspiracy of silence and enabling Prosecutors like the ones in Ferguson and Staten Island, have all reached the tipping point. Citizens of both colors are tired of police intimidation. Maybe long prison terms for the "Baltimore 6" will finally drive the point home.
8
His name was Eric Garner, NEVER forget his name or the cop that choked him to death in broad daylight and smiled while waving to the camera, Daniel Pantaleo.
1
Trust is earned, not given. The police in this country have misused that trust and will have to earn it back. If the Unions don't "get" this I predict there will be a huge revolt coming in this country from whites and blacks alike. We are sick and tired of the abuse.
18
imagine what baltimore or new york would be like without police. in fact , there wouldn't be large cities without cops. i bet there would be large cities without hedge fund managers, waiters, salesmen, dress makers...etc., etc. everyone dislikes cops until they need one.
2
It's not a question of "police get to do whatever they want OR there are no police at all." Of course we need police, of course they serve a supremely import role in a civilized society—NO ONE, on any side of the argument disputes that. The issue is whether police should be held more accountable for their actions when their actions don't follow the law, or don't follow reasonable expectations for what their jobs entail and how they can best serve the community.
And in fact, it's that all or nothing defensive stance that is a large part of the problem in the first place. The police are not the military, and their jobs, and their attitudes in their jobs, should be completely different.
And in fact, it's that all or nothing defensive stance that is a large part of the problem in the first place. The police are not the military, and their jobs, and their attitudes in their jobs, should be completely different.
2
Since this article has nothing to do with removing all police from the streets, it's hard to see what the point of this comment is besides suggesting that people should just put up with bad cops "or else."
Circling of the wagons around fellow officers pre dates unions by a long shot. When you deal with the underbelly of society on a daily basis and are resented by many of the rest, you become insular.
Policemen formed unions due to the resistance of politicians to compensate them adequately. When my father became a policeman in the late forties he was given a badge and a gun. He had to buy his own uniforms, go to court on his own time, and work six days a week. All for less than he was making in a factory.
Unfortunately police unions did not become a real part of the labor movement. They are really fraternal organizations, their members tend to be conservatives, and they have accrued outsized power by putting themselves on a law and order pedestal.
If you put yourself on a pedestal, eventually something will knock you off it.
The time has come for policemen and their fraternal/union organizations to cooperate in the efforts to improve policing rather that reflexively defending every incident of excessive force. Individual policemen are entitled to representation but not justification before the facts are revealed.
Policemen formed unions due to the resistance of politicians to compensate them adequately. When my father became a policeman in the late forties he was given a badge and a gun. He had to buy his own uniforms, go to court on his own time, and work six days a week. All for less than he was making in a factory.
Unfortunately police unions did not become a real part of the labor movement. They are really fraternal organizations, their members tend to be conservatives, and they have accrued outsized power by putting themselves on a law and order pedestal.
If you put yourself on a pedestal, eventually something will knock you off it.
The time has come for policemen and their fraternal/union organizations to cooperate in the efforts to improve policing rather that reflexively defending every incident of excessive force. Individual policemen are entitled to representation but not justification before the facts are revealed.
12
"underbelly of society"? Really?
Maybe that's the problem; people (and people in positions of authority) thinking that everyone who crosses their path, who is not them, is a low-class, worthless criminal.
Maybe that's the problem; people (and people in positions of authority) thinking that everyone who crosses their path, who is not them, is a low-class, worthless criminal.
Just like there are reader comments about surveillance being ok because the innocent have nothing to hide or worry about, this logic favors civilian oversight of law enforcement. I would take it further. In this age of distrust of government functions and perceptions of disconnect from public interests, there should be civilian oversight of just about everything government does.
9
We could even hold elections.
Live cops matter.
3
Police unions protect their members and now they are getting lambasted for it. So the labor interests of police officers may be at odds with the public interest. The police department's public mission - to protect and serve - cannot always be squared with the union's interest. This is always the case with municipal unions. The police unions tend to be politically conservative, however, so now they will get their comeuppance.
2
If police unions are really interested in protecting their members, they will make it their mission to get bad cops off the street.
This article seems more an indictment of public service employee unions than of police. It shouldn't surprise anyone that politicians have a tough time dealing with their unionized civil servants - many pols benefit from a quid pro quuo relationship in which the pols give away the store re civil service benefits for instance in return for big donations from the unions. Given the strong statutory protections that cilvil servants have, it is beyond reason that they need the "protection" of a union.
At the end of the day one must ask IMO whether going out on the streets and putting one's life on the line as do many police affords police a "privileged" position.
At the end of the day one must ask IMO whether going out on the streets and putting one's life on the line as do many police affords police a "privileged" position.
1
When the police turned their back on Mayor deBlasio at their fellow officers' funerals, it gave me pause. Demonizing deBlasio and President Obama for daring to speak out against police violence, and then showing both disrespect to deBlasio and their fellow officers, cheapening their funerals, made them seem more like a fraternity that's used to acting without consequences than public servants.
376
Thank you
Please don't trivialize police behavior as mere college pranks by drunken college students that get out of hand. Some police officers are corrupt thugs, pure and simple, hiding behind their badges to brutalize citizens. Encouraged and protected by their unions, they believe and act as if they are above the law. Many of us do not see the police as our protectors but as the equivalent of criminals strolling the street with impunity; they have guns and are not reluctant to use them under the slightest provocation. Or no provocation. If some police officers believe they operate under the laws of the jungle rather than the laws of society, they should not be police. The penitentiary rather than the precinct should be their proper home.
1
Police are not in the ten most dangerous jobs in America according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. No one is saying theirs is not a dangerous job, just look at the death of the young officer in Queens, but there are more dangerous jobs. The police unions has played on our fear of the underclass and now the fear of terrorist. If anyone cared to look they would see demography has played a bigger role in the reduction of crime than police would care to admit. The age of the criminal has changed and the crack epidemic that raged for so many years is over. In plain language their loss of privileged position is totally on their shoulders they overplayed their hand. For years they had great PR along with great PR they acquired great arrogance. They forgot they were peace officers not shock troops. The job action, anywhere else it would have been called a wildcat strike, in New York recently showed the world how little regard they had for the public they are sworn to protect. Police seem to have forgotten that they were not conscripted they volunteered. If the job is so tough maybe they chose the wrong occupation. It is with heavy heart we will be mourning a young police officer in New York. In my mind the killer should be drawn and quartered for doing such a vile thing. The police have lost privileged position because the people thinks they have little or no empathy for the public who pays their salary. Everybody wants to be safe but also everybody wants to be respected. .
27
There is a difference between accidents, caused by a mine collapse or falling timber, and the assassination of uniformed police in their car during broad daylight or the many assaults on police officers (almost 50,000 a year) . If we used this logic of simple death rates, we'd fly everywhere, rather than walk or drive. If we use this logic, then the 300 cases of assault on teachers in Baltimore schools each year would justify teachers carrying weapons. In fact, we could cut police injuries dramatically simply by not responding to domestic violence or fights (Of the nearly 49,851 officers assaulted during 2013, the largest percentage of victim officers (31.2 percent) were responding to disturbance calls (family quarrels, bar fights, etc.) when the incidents occurred.) Again, loggers, miners, and people using heavy equipment are not injured and killed deliberately. Apples and oranges.
Long overdue. Modern-day Americans, beneficiaries of the vigorous citizenship of their forefathers, have been astonishingly slavish in their relationship to anyone in a uniform. It is precisely because we have vested extraordinary powers in police that we must scrutinize their conduct continuously. It's called democracy.
318
OK, the next time someone breaks into your house or threatens your children, call your local politician, or better yet, your Democratic Congressman.
Our police chiefs are usually, with shaved heads, in Gilbert and Sullivan uniforms. That should be the first clue.
Racists eventually get identified in a way that everyone can understand. It has happened to people like Wallace, 'Bull' Connor, Thurmond and thousands of others over the years. The police have been hiding in plain sight. Effective recording tools have revealed them so that even the blind may see. Good luck to the Unions who now try to put that toothpaste back into the tube. Racism has always been deadly. Unions are there to protect their members. Their interests do not include the Public.
6
The long serving mayor of Baltimore, the chief of police and half the officers charged are Black. Are you saying they are all racists?
And the New York officer who was shot in the face, was he a racist? He was trying to question a young Black man who had made a "furtive movement at his waist." And we know that's just racist bull, right? Officer Brian Moore, he was a racist, right?
And the New York officer who was shot in the face, was he a racist? He was trying to question a young Black man who had made a "furtive movement at his waist." And we know that's just racist bull, right? Officer Brian Moore, he was a racist, right?
1
I wander if this spate of police malfeasance is the result of sudden interest by the Press as a result of ubiquitous cell phone cameras among the citizenry.
It's hard to believe that numerous, apparently unrelated, incidents of Police misconduct suddenly occurred. It seems more reasonable that the Press is reacting to sensational evidence collected by citizens and made public over social media.
Another situation in which technology seems to be improving the quality of a key public service. Keep up the good work Folks!
It's hard to believe that numerous, apparently unrelated, incidents of Police misconduct suddenly occurred. It seems more reasonable that the Press is reacting to sensational evidence collected by citizens and made public over social media.
Another situation in which technology seems to be improving the quality of a key public service. Keep up the good work Folks!
11
Policing has been militarized since the creation of Homeland Security. Too many have been trained to see the public as 'enemy forces.' Police unions - for whatever reasons - seem to want to reinforce both the idea that the public represents the enemy, and that individual officers can do no wrong. The unions have been fighting oversight at every turn. They simply do not want scrutinized.
Police officers are public employees. They may not answer directly to the public, but until the unions start recognizing that they work *for* the public and that the public does not want out of control cops then the relationship between the police and the non-criminal public will only deteriorate further.
Police officers are public employees. They may not answer directly to the public, but until the unions start recognizing that they work *for* the public and that the public does not want out of control cops then the relationship between the police and the non-criminal public will only deteriorate further.
46
Now that technology is providing ordinary citizens with proof of what the black citizens have been telling us for years We the People have taken notice. Now it's time for responsible police officials and the politicians to take positive action to enforce Due Process and Equal Protection for blacks.
15
There is always a certain level of conflict between union interest and public interest, whether it is teachers, hospital workers or the police. But with police it is a more dramatic conflict, because they are armed and wield power over all of us if we happen to fall into the category of suspect.
Recent events make it clear that the professional behavior of our police does not reach the level of most other civilized nations and that the problem is systemic. I would like to see as much focus on training and protocol as on punishing rogue officers.
What I have found most shocking in a few of these cases is the general indifference of multiple police officers after a suspect has been fatally injured. It is clearly more than a matter of the use of excessive force- it is an indifference to human life that would appear to be a common behavior in many officers. This must be partially the result of terrible training.
That said, I hope that this nation goes beyond only looking at the issue of police behavior. Systemic, race based poverty is the ugly elephant in the room here.
Recent events make it clear that the professional behavior of our police does not reach the level of most other civilized nations and that the problem is systemic. I would like to see as much focus on training and protocol as on punishing rogue officers.
What I have found most shocking in a few of these cases is the general indifference of multiple police officers after a suspect has been fatally injured. It is clearly more than a matter of the use of excessive force- it is an indifference to human life that would appear to be a common behavior in many officers. This must be partially the result of terrible training.
That said, I hope that this nation goes beyond only looking at the issue of police behavior. Systemic, race based poverty is the ugly elephant in the room here.
176
"General indifference"? "Indifference"? "Depraved indifference to human life" fits the intentionality of some police acts.
1
The other elephant in the room is the "war on drugs" which inextricably entwined with poverty and the lack of opportunity. The "war" encourages the cops to aggressively police the inner cities (they often get overtime pay for arrests and promotions are based on arrest numbers). Those arrested get criminal records for penny ante drug possession charges that keep them trapped in poverty. Stop treating drug possession and use as a criminal act. It is a social and medical issue.
If we learned anything from Ferguson it is that the police often police for profit -- i.e. their own profit or the municipal coffers. The easiest prey: the poor.
If we learned anything from Ferguson it is that the police often police for profit -- i.e. their own profit or the municipal coffers. The easiest prey: the poor.
I agree with alandhaigh only more so. I've seen teacher's unions back to the hilt a teacher who falls asleep on her students on a daily basis and refused to seek medical or psychological help. As far as I know she is teaching (and sleeping) to this day. yes really.
Chicago (1968), the chicago police showed their true colors. And people forgot Birmingham, Selma, Ohio etc. Then in 2001, some people made them heros worshipfully calling them LEOs with silly stickers on their cars. The police militarized and became an occupying force - of course not in the neighborhoods of those who could cause poltical trouble for them, just those the police knew by virtue of the residents' births must be future criminals, and they moved in their heavy equipemnt and neonazi policing tactics. What jobs were created for those residents with the jackboots at the throats?
10
Misbehavior, aggressive tactics, overreach, misconduct... It's a shame nobody remembers how to call it Police Brutality anymore. NYTimes writers are too nice.
47
Help! There's a mugging going on in these comments. Call the police! Wait, it's the police who are getting mugged.
2
and they are arriving in SWAT teams and tanks..you're point?
1
A few yrs ago, I was blowing leaves along the sidewalk in front of my house, depositing them in a barren strip between the sidewalk and the road, not on the road itself. A city police officer abruptly stopped his vehicle and, in an aggressive tone, demanded to know what I was doing. I told him. Clearly something was troubling him, but I had no idea what. He asked, what about the car that was parked in the strip, near where I was working. I told him that the car, an old vehicle of little value, was mine; it was used by one of my children. At that point, he realized that I was the homeowner, not some down-on-his-luck older guy getting by with yardwork through the hot summer. Without a word, the officer put his car in gear while closing the passenger window and drove off.
This puzzling exchange would have taken a different course if my demographics were different. It is experiences like these that chip away at the community support for police. Yes, they have a tough job, but a significant minority of them threaten our safety rather than protect it. It is long past time to reduce their budgets, reduce their manpower, and restore civilian control over law enforcement that, in some respects, has come to resemble domestic paramilitary operations.
This puzzling exchange would have taken a different course if my demographics were different. It is experiences like these that chip away at the community support for police. Yes, they have a tough job, but a significant minority of them threaten our safety rather than protect it. It is long past time to reduce their budgets, reduce their manpower, and restore civilian control over law enforcement that, in some respects, has come to resemble domestic paramilitary operations.
80
It is also long past time for assets seized by law enforcement and fines / fees collected to always revert to the city / county / state rather than being retained by the police department. There is such a clear conflict of interests here that the potential financial gain for the police must be removed.
Who you gonna call?
When you face an emergency who are you going to dial? Mary? Al? Joe? Bill?
When you face an emergency who are you going to dial? Mary? Al? Joe? Bill?
1
This is irrelevant to the human abuse and violation of officers' oaths that are being discussed here. A red herring.
The Fire Department
When you think about it, it's really taken a long time (decades) and numerous, highly publicized gross errors in judgment and egregiously poor conduct for the police to arrive at this point in which they've lost so much credibility. You know things have gotten rather awful when even white people, who have typically perceived the police as the last line of defense between them and the bogeyman, begin to question police actions.
Here in NYC, virtually every time a police officer is even accused of some unlawful action, the police unions and their party bosses, such as Patrick Lynch, reflexively defend the accused officer with everything they have, typically suggesting that the virtually incontrovertible facts as we know them somehow aren't what they appear to be. These police unions don't even wait for the whole story to come out before defending every officer accused of any crime. They even defend corruption, such as the ticket fixing scandal. The unions act like Mafia brothers as the officers circle the wagons and refuse to cooperate with the authorities. And yet, somehow, the unions assume the public isn't paying attention. Even citizens who have blindly supported and defended the police recognize that officers put their loyalty to one another over integrity, honor, and doing the right thing for the law they've been sworn to uphold.
Back in the day I used to eagerly support organizations like the PAL when the phone rang asking for a donation. These days I just hang up.
Here in NYC, virtually every time a police officer is even accused of some unlawful action, the police unions and their party bosses, such as Patrick Lynch, reflexively defend the accused officer with everything they have, typically suggesting that the virtually incontrovertible facts as we know them somehow aren't what they appear to be. These police unions don't even wait for the whole story to come out before defending every officer accused of any crime. They even defend corruption, such as the ticket fixing scandal. The unions act like Mafia brothers as the officers circle the wagons and refuse to cooperate with the authorities. And yet, somehow, the unions assume the public isn't paying attention. Even citizens who have blindly supported and defended the police recognize that officers put their loyalty to one another over integrity, honor, and doing the right thing for the law they've been sworn to uphold.
Back in the day I used to eagerly support organizations like the PAL when the phone rang asking for a donation. These days I just hang up.
27
"The loss of a privileged position' means the loss of the chance to kill anybody you don't like, especially if that 'anybody' is a different color.
15
"Overreach by the Police? If the allegations are proved true this is
brutality. It must be understood that a police officer as in the military must make snap decisions in relation to pulling that trigger or the application of force in any given incident. Constant realistic training and refresher training is necessary in order to keep the skills in tune with reality and standards. Along these lines the Leadership at all levels must be aware of the morale and happenings at the lowest levels by observing daily performance and act before problems arise. That is a function of Leadership.
brutality. It must be understood that a police officer as in the military must make snap decisions in relation to pulling that trigger or the application of force in any given incident. Constant realistic training and refresher training is necessary in order to keep the skills in tune with reality and standards. Along these lines the Leadership at all levels must be aware of the morale and happenings at the lowest levels by observing daily performance and act before problems arise. That is a function of Leadership.
3
The police torched their own credibility and undermined public trust in law enforcement, time and again. The unions have just been a megaphone for shockingly out-of-touch positions and warped thinking about use of violence. Many of us who once looked up to law enforcement now wouldn't allow someone in that profession in our homes or socialize with them. They are that bad and we, the ordinary citizens, are that fed up.
18
Like all institutions with monopoly power the police abuse their power. There have been numerous examples of it at local and state level in our state and the politicians generally are fairly pusillanimous. In the case of Baltimore the city has paid out millions in settlements over the last four years alone so the taxpayer is picking up the tab for police misconduct. Given that the police force to a large extent mirrors society there are inevitably a percentage of bad actors as well as many good ones. As far as the police unions are concerned they see their role as defending any police conduct no matter how egregious.
21
America is infected with an Us-Against-Them mentality that is toxic to a civil society. Police forces act as though everyone who is not a police officer is a "Perp" that hasn't yet been caught. While we can all acknowledge that the job of police officer is dangerous to the point of being potentially fatal, the reality of a civil society is that the vast majority of people are not criminals who are out to threaten or kill police officers.
There is also an intimidation campaign growing. I see more-and-more "plainclothes" police officers with open-carry weapons and the weapon is prominently displayed while the badge, while not concealed, is not so prominent. It is a power statement, pure and simple, that says: I'm in charge here.
A true public servant would welcome civilian oversight - after all it is the civilians that pay the salary and benefits and provide the equipment. The retreat behind the "Blue Wall" only makes life worse for everyone and nobody trusts anybody. Perhaps we no longer live in a civil society and have become a world of anarchy and it isn't just the police, it seems to be all public officials.
There is also an intimidation campaign growing. I see more-and-more "plainclothes" police officers with open-carry weapons and the weapon is prominently displayed while the badge, while not concealed, is not so prominent. It is a power statement, pure and simple, that says: I'm in charge here.
A true public servant would welcome civilian oversight - after all it is the civilians that pay the salary and benefits and provide the equipment. The retreat behind the "Blue Wall" only makes life worse for everyone and nobody trusts anybody. Perhaps we no longer live in a civil society and have become a world of anarchy and it isn't just the police, it seems to be all public officials.
93
Very well said.
2
Yes, but part of the problem is that, for better or for worse, police departments absorb a large amount of folks that served in Iraq and Afghanistan --where their mission was to live, kill the enemy, and indeed control and beat the enemy.
There is nothing further away from this than policing communities composed of law-abiding citizens, interacting with minorities, confronting drug abuse and overdoses, domestic disputes, dealing individuals with mental illness, dealing with the homeless, and minor crimes --only terrorism and major organized crime bears some resemblance to the experience of military men in the Middle East, and these two occurrences are not common in day-to-day policing.
There is nothing further away from this than policing communities composed of law-abiding citizens, interacting with minorities, confronting drug abuse and overdoses, domestic disputes, dealing individuals with mental illness, dealing with the homeless, and minor crimes --only terrorism and major organized crime bears some resemblance to the experience of military men in the Middle East, and these two occurrences are not common in day-to-day policing.
2
Sociology literature published community ranking regarding status and power. Police and clergy are always at the top of the list. Police status attracts certain types of personalities that are poorly suited for the job. There needs to be a move towards hiring police people who are atypical to the stereotype.
23
"Poorly suited for the job" is the root of the problem. A troublesome minority get a "high" out of the look of intimidation that wearing a uniform and carrying a weapon has when they appear at a scene. Essentially these types see themselves as untouchable and basically act as legalized thugs. They are just the types who SHOULD NOT have this job.
4
Thanks for the phony accusation. I was attracted to the job because I was qualified and wanted to help people. Who are you to judge the hiring? The real problem we're seeing is in all these press accusations, the perpetrator was resisting arrest. These people know that the first thing plea-bargained away is the Resisting Arrest charge. One judge on the bench even stating, "I'd resist arrest too, who wants to be arrested?" Until these people know there's a price to be paid for resisting arrest and endangering the officer, you'll continue to see these confrontations and high-speed chases.
5
If you don't think shooting a man in the back over a traffic stop is "just doing your job" then you have some serous problems and could possibly be the police officer in the next news item.
2
What if the lower crime statistics are due to ease of communications, where it's harder and harder to commit a crime and evade getting caught. Which applies to police too - you can't get away with it anymore.
4
Police should never have had a privileged position! With all due respect, any position that lead police to beleive they they were above the law and empowered to be judge, jury and executioner was and is wrong.
Unions are there to make sure that their members are treated fairly not to make sure that their members can brake the law! I beleive in unions and I support them but if the police unions saw their function as making sure their members could abuse, injure and kill citizens with impunity, they need to be reorganized.
I have seen police overreach up close and personal so I am well aware of the arrogance and shear joy some officers get from knowing they can do anything they want and they will get away with it. It is not a pretty sight. Many young men go into police work looking normal and within a year look as if they have been over dosed on steroids. They know few if any of the humans they abuse will be able to sue them for their misbehavior and they know their departments won't punish them soo its off to the races.
Unions are there to make sure that their members are treated fairly not to make sure that their members can brake the law! I beleive in unions and I support them but if the police unions saw their function as making sure their members could abuse, injure and kill citizens with impunity, they need to be reorganized.
I have seen police overreach up close and personal so I am well aware of the arrogance and shear joy some officers get from knowing they can do anything they want and they will get away with it. It is not a pretty sight. Many young men go into police work looking normal and within a year look as if they have been over dosed on steroids. They know few if any of the humans they abuse will be able to sue them for their misbehavior and they know their departments won't punish them soo its off to the races.
53
The culture of lying within the police, which has been building for years, needs to be turned.
34
I am not sure what this article is about, actually. This is what unions *do.* Besides organizing their members, who are employees,, and negotiating contracts, they also lobby member interests.
The implication here is that police shouldn't have interests like decreasing oversight. That police unions should support what the public wants.
The question here is "who is responsible for changing a broken system?" Traditional pro-union views would hold that employees are not the creators of systematic dysfunction. The analysis of this situation has shown that police officers themselves are not solely responsible for creating this nightmare. Negative attitudes toward the people police officers are "sworn to protect" is a direct reflection of public perception.
So if we want things to be better, rather than whining that police officers don't want to shoulder all of the blame, maybe we should ask why we are shouldering none of it? If this system is so ugly, why have we let it go and savored a feeling of safety in our safe, comfortable neighborhoods at the expense.of the rights of others?
The implication here is that police shouldn't have interests like decreasing oversight. That police unions should support what the public wants.
The question here is "who is responsible for changing a broken system?" Traditional pro-union views would hold that employees are not the creators of systematic dysfunction. The analysis of this situation has shown that police officers themselves are not solely responsible for creating this nightmare. Negative attitudes toward the people police officers are "sworn to protect" is a direct reflection of public perception.
So if we want things to be better, rather than whining that police officers don't want to shoulder all of the blame, maybe we should ask why we are shouldering none of it? If this system is so ugly, why have we let it go and savored a feeling of safety in our safe, comfortable neighborhoods at the expense.of the rights of others?
2
"...police officers don't want to shoulder all of the blame..." I know of no one who thinks they should. But unfortunately, I keep reading comments that suggest that no cop can do wrong. A shooter should be investigate, not sequestered behind a Blue wall and a compliant DA. Oh yes, Dan Donovan got a seat in Congress from that, right?
3
There is no doubt that a lower crime rate is responsible for some diminishing of the still-considerable police privilege and that makes sense. This is the time to secure needed reforms, to curb the worst abuses, when both legislators and prosecutors are emboldened by a public that feels safer than it did two to four decades ago. The police are entitled to some special privileges, yet any time an officer breaks the law and/or abuses his or her authority that person must be held accountable. The blanket "just in the line of duty" explanation does not cut it any longer and never should have sufficed in the first place. For too long, it did, as many citizens simply did not care enough about the Grays and the Garners. Now, they do, and they are supporting the Mosbys, perhaps partially out of guilt for giving the police too much leeway in the past.
12
We heard some of this disconnect when, after the Michael Brown shooting, numerous police officers and representatives commented that these shooting would not happen if civilians simply "obeyed the office's orders". The mindset that civilians must obey officers is more suited to a police state or dictatorship than America. In a free society, there must be limits on the power police have over regular citizens.
220
The Michael Brown shooting would have never took place if Michael Brown did't attack the police officer and try to get his gun. Is that a police state?
1
The problem is not police unions. The problem is the "blue code of silence" by which honest officers obstruct justice because of peer pressure or fear of retaliation if they report corruption or abusive behavior by fellow officers. Until there is a culture change in certain police departments that actively encourages and rewards telling "inconvenient truths," police departments will not be able to get rid of the small fraction of officers who are giving the police in general a bad name. Honest officers and the dangerous neighborhoods they serve will be safer when the dishonest and abusive cops are dismissed from employment. What puzzles me is why the honest officers are not more actively trying to clean their own house.
41
@ Pres Winslow
While I don't disagree with your basic premise the police unions are an essential component of the culture you describe.
While I don't disagree with your basic premise the police unions are an essential component of the culture you describe.
14
Think about unit cohesion, mob psychology, go along to get along, or team/clan loyalties. These powerful forces operate in every social situation, from the battlefields in Afghanistan to those in Philly, NY or St. Louis. These bonds grow stronger under the pressures of combat. Every armed uniformed force exhibits these traits, and they all show significant numbers of cases of PTSD. When all you see is dirt, you want a broom, but if all they give you is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Unfortunately, many departments don't provide adequate training with either or their analogous implements or tactics.
3
ust about an hour ago, a few friends and I heard a woman yell for help across a city street. She was pressed against the cement, being repeatedly beat by a man. A few of the group sprinted over to try and separate the two while I called 911. Within 2 minutes, 2 undercover were sprinting to catch the abuser. One took quite a nasty punch, while the other successfully detained the abuser. We gave our statements to other cops on the scene and left.
On our way out, we passed the undercover cops, who still had the criminal detained, being severely heckled by folks walking by. We explained the context to a few, and their reactions changed dramatically. Certainly, there are policemen and women who abuse their power. But there are many who don't, and wouldn't ever consider doing so. Many who's life's work is now public ridicule. And well, that's a shame.
On our way out, we passed the undercover cops, who still had the criminal detained, being severely heckled by folks walking by. We explained the context to a few, and their reactions changed dramatically. Certainly, there are policemen and women who abuse their power. But there are many who don't, and wouldn't ever consider doing so. Many who's life's work is now public ridicule. And well, that's a shame.
69
So do you call a man beating on another man an abuser, or an assailant?
Anecdotes are useless. Two cops doing what they are paid to do. And tomorrow they may very well beat the daylights out of some kid who smart mouths them.
The ‘few bad apples’ trope carries less and less weight with every passing atrocity.
Anecdotes are useless. Two cops doing what they are paid to do. And tomorrow they may very well beat the daylights out of some kid who smart mouths them.
The ‘few bad apples’ trope carries less and less weight with every passing atrocity.
14
The issue is not about good cops versus bad cops. The issue is bad cops.
7
The profession of policing is humble, altruistic and courageous. My respect to all who truly serve with these principles, however, I suspect that sadly there may be few. How else can the unrelenting series of police brutality incidents be explained? Surely humble, altruistic and courageous police professionals would not stand for that criminal behavior?
In response to Mr, Shapiro, those who most appreciate the presence of police officers the most,are the inhabitants of minority neighborhoods, I have always found police officers to be highly professional, and obviously well trained. Many, like Ray KELLY , former NYC police commissioner, have distinguished military backgrounds, and spent the greater part of their professional careers in one hazardous situation or another. When Freddy Gray was arrested numerous times before his death for one felony or another, and taken off the streets, no one was more relieved than his own neighbors in the Baltimore neighborhood in which he lived. I don't believe that Mr. Shapiro, who, and its only a hunch, does not live in a crime ridden neighborhood and who is not threatened on a daily basis by criminals, could appreciate that. Shapiro should try living in one of the run down, slatternly, housing projects in Brooklyn--just one example--for six months or so, which would help him to understand how grateful residents there are for the presence of police officers. It is not a cliché to say that police officers are selfless, and risk their lives on a daily basis. Try going into the military yourself, Mr. Shapiro, and then applying to join the force, if you are eligible, and your point of view will change. Another hunch of mine is that Mr. Shapiro works for a politician, perhaps a big city mayor, who, for political reasons, is critical of his police force..
4
@ Alexander Harrison
Grey was not a violent criminal and he certainly didn't deserve to be done to death while in police custody. Or are you suggesting it was all an accident? In the last four years the City of Baltimore (i.e. the taxpayers) have paid out about $6 million in legal settlements because of police misconduct. I have a hunch this is fine by you.
Grey was not a violent criminal and he certainly didn't deserve to be done to death while in police custody. Or are you suggesting it was all an accident? In the last four years the City of Baltimore (i.e. the taxpayers) have paid out about $6 million in legal settlements because of police misconduct. I have a hunch this is fine by you.
24
Should this guy be a senior officer in any police force?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-po...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-po...
5
Dear John: With drugs comes violence. You don't have to have a Ph.D in criminology to realize that drug dealers must protect their turf, and not with gentle persuasion. Gray, by the very nature of his "métier," or livelihood, resorted to violence against his rivals. How could it be otherwise? Gray lacked will power, which is the plight of most career crimimals. Having been in prison myself on three different continents at one time or another, and having written three books on the subject based on interviews with criminals/ideological crusaders, I know whereof I speak.Cordially, Alexander Harrison. You can find me on youtube and at Amazon.com.
Sow the Wind, Reap the Whirlwind:
Garrity v. New Jersey was a 1967 U.S. Supreme Court case that was the fountainhead of the Law Enforcement Officers' Bill of Rights statutes that many states, including Maryland, fell over themselves in a headlong rush to enact and that give cops extravagant "due process" privileges that cop unions now trot out for cops to hide behind in cases of cop misconduct.
It is the height of irony that in the Garrity case, it was none other than liberal stalwart Justice William O. Douglas who wrote the Majority Opinion -- in favor of "due process" privileges for cops -- joined by all the other liberal justices of that time: Earl Warren, William Brennan, Hugo Black and Abe Fortas. In stark contrast, the Dissenting Opinion -- opposing "due process" privileges for cops -- was written by conservative champion Justice John Harlan, joined by all the other conservative justices of the time: Potter Stewart, Byron White and Tom Clark.
Garrity v. New Jersey was a 1967 U.S. Supreme Court case that was the fountainhead of the Law Enforcement Officers' Bill of Rights statutes that many states, including Maryland, fell over themselves in a headlong rush to enact and that give cops extravagant "due process" privileges that cop unions now trot out for cops to hide behind in cases of cop misconduct.
It is the height of irony that in the Garrity case, it was none other than liberal stalwart Justice William O. Douglas who wrote the Majority Opinion -- in favor of "due process" privileges for cops -- joined by all the other liberal justices of that time: Earl Warren, William Brennan, Hugo Black and Abe Fortas. In stark contrast, the Dissenting Opinion -- opposing "due process" privileges for cops -- was written by conservative champion Justice John Harlan, joined by all the other conservative justices of the time: Potter Stewart, Byron White and Tom Clark.
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It's always fascinating how the beliefs of conservatives and liberals have evolved and changed over time. Years ago, George H. Bush and the Republican party were strong supporters of access to contraception. Now look at the Republican party and especially the current crop of presidential candidates and their views of access to contraception.
Liberals and legal advocates fought long and hard to de-institutionalize the mentally ill in the 1960's and beyond. Of course, the financial savings didn't follow those same people into the community and viable living alternatives for the mentally ill were (and remain) severely limited. Subsequently, conservative state governments accelerated de-institutionalization simply for cost savings. Our cities and country are now inundated with the homeless mentally ill and law enforcement has become their "case managers."
Liberals and legal advocates fought long and hard to de-institutionalize the mentally ill in the 1960's and beyond. Of course, the financial savings didn't follow those same people into the community and viable living alternatives for the mentally ill were (and remain) severely limited. Subsequently, conservative state governments accelerated de-institutionalization simply for cost savings. Our cities and country are now inundated with the homeless mentally ill and law enforcement has become their "case managers."
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I'm not sure why this matters. Are we talking about right and wrong here or are we talking about politics?
America is starved for good policing, among other things. Americans do not default to being conscientious and law abiding. In addition to good policing they are starved for good parenting, education and moral/ethical guidance.
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I would find it very difficult to speak ill of all police officers. Many do a difficult job under extremely unpredictable conditions, that may turn in an instant from questionable to life-threatening. However, the increasing militarization of the police is no doubt a threat to our society. Pointing fingers at police unions is too easy. The development of unions with blind self-interest as their major policy is not a sin of only police unions. Very often police are seen to be the protectors of property and the status of the wealthy and entitled and instruments of power to reinforce many of the most unjust aspects of our society. Policing and the police force need a complete re-examination, their job should be to avoid violence not instinctively resort to it. The police are public servants and like politicians should serve all members of society. They are not above the law they enforce and should not be the instruments of racism and social injustice. It may be that just as our political climate continues its downward spiral, this problem is just another example that self-regulation, the phony baloney loved by Republicans, just does not work and police must also be policed and answerable to outside regulation.
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Baltimore Black and Democrat.....read the stats
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GOP, White Republicans... Congress rules, OK?
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The problem is that the arrogance of union leaders, and the determination to circle the wagons around the worst cops, to prevent merited discipline, has robbed the best of them of respect. And really, the whole 9/11 reverence for 1st responders lead to acceptance of intrusive policing. It was obviously far far worse in black communities. For police to be a part of the communities, they have to accept community input, and work to gain the trust - and cooperation - of people. This argument shouldn't be about not enforcing the law but about how it is enforced.
And this is also a reminder to politicians that the police cannot change communities for the better simply by better policing. Baltimore didn't show it's anger only because of poor policing - it was also about lack of jobs, deteriorating neighborhoods, youngsters without hope and without models of success.
And this is also a reminder to politicians that the police cannot change communities for the better simply by better policing. Baltimore didn't show it's anger only because of poor policing - it was also about lack of jobs, deteriorating neighborhoods, youngsters without hope and without models of success.
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For too long the police have flaunted their power over citizens and politicians. They killed people and got away with it because of their influence over society and their arrogance. When Mayor de Blasio expressed his heart-felt concerns for his son and police encounters he was belittled and disrespected as a mayor and a father. Their behaviour and disregard toward African-Americans is shameful and appalling. Many major city police forces are under federal oversight because of abusive practices and heavy-handedness. I read the Cleveland Report and it was one horrible misdeed after another. Police are not occupiers-they are in communities to protect and serve-in the true sense of those words.
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ibivi, police in America often misbehave in African American communities.Unlike Canada, Americans may own 300 million handguns and rifles, given our firearm laws. So, when a police officer has to confront an American, he may be facing an armed citizen. That is not an excuse for police misconduct , but that is reality. The gun laws in America aren't about to be changed. Also, Baltimore has a the fifth highest murder rate of any major American city. And that fact is also a realty. The death of Fred Gray appears to be a result of police misconduct and charges have been properly filed
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Too bad that your nation is heading in the same direction as mine in the leaders and the power structure losing respect for people.
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You are correct but in Toronto we do have problems with shootings. Often it is gang related and often the victims are African-Canadians or other minorities. A new police chief was recently appointed who is the first black man to hold this position. We have issues with police misconduct here as well and I hope the American changes to policing will filter up to us. Take care out there!
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Let's be clear, the police did not "lose" their privileged position, they threw it away with their own violence and arrogance. They were too stupid to even appreciate that in the 21st century EVERYONE has a camera phone and EVERYTHING is recorded. Dumb and dumber.
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Which just implies that they would only stop doing it because they were afraid of getting caught. A sad indictment.
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Let's be clear, there is no evidence except video which is very weak evidence indeed that anything happened. There is/are no autopsy, no labs and no ballistics, none of that crucial evidence exists. Please you do not have the logical right to say such evidence exists without proof. Without supporting physical evidence video is no longer valid evidence but discredited evidence.
Pretty harsh Jason! It is easy to throw stones. How do we 'solve' the problem?
Please let me know from your cushy home in Santa Fe...
Please let me know from your cushy home in Santa Fe...
The police lost all its credibility. No doubt there are great cops who take their jobs seriously and do believe in, "To protect and serve." But the facts are, many cops are clowns and feel like they can do whatever they want to do. In the movie, "Once Upon a Time in America," Danny Aiello played the police chief, we're back to those days now. I'd say clean house and start from the scratch. Ask these people why they want to be cops and make them better prepared. This is a joke. Get rid of all the police officers. How can government even pay these guys? The police should lose any privilege they have and be treated like the criminals that they arrest.
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What kind of solution is "get rid of all police officers?" And how can you state that there are those who take the job seriously, yet also assert that the police should lose any privilege they have and be treated like the criminals that they arrest.
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He's saying replace police officers and not "get rid of all police officers?" And any officers that act like criminals should be treated as such, no?
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Many police do not realize that we live in a democracy. The act and believe like those in PoliceState Countries and get support from many law and order people until their own family gets a false ticket.Many police do. not belong on "da job" they join because they are insecure,want power, benefits ,ex military (not the majority)who think that the people who hire them are the enemy.
This minority's of bad apples can be eliminated by changing the hiring practices especially the psychological test and leaders rooting out the bullies who complIn about their bosses and think that everybody they serve is their enemy and using of late for no good reason in most cases unnecessary military tactics. Some of these TV Police Shows are like The old John Wayne war movies who influenced many to join the military only to be booted out.
This minority's of bad apples can be eliminated by changing the hiring practices especially the psychological test and leaders rooting out the bullies who complIn about their bosses and think that everybody they serve is their enemy and using of late for no good reason in most cases unnecessary military tactics. Some of these TV Police Shows are like The old John Wayne war movies who influenced many to join the military only to be booted out.
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I think what has been lost, or forgotten by too many, and should be remembered above everything else, is the notion that police officers are, first and foremost, public SERVANTS.
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Really?
You realize that means employees, right? So that would make the public "the boss."
So whose responsibility is it to define the job and hire /train people to do it? The boss.
We are blaming them for doing their jobs just the way they were told to do. If we wanted their jobs or instructions to change, that was ours to fix with our votes and voices. This article proves it effective.
You realize that means employees, right? So that would make the public "the boss."
So whose responsibility is it to define the job and hire /train people to do it? The boss.
We are blaming them for doing their jobs just the way they were told to do. If we wanted their jobs or instructions to change, that was ours to fix with our votes and voices. This article proves it effective.
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What is overlooked is that a couple of decades of "Don't Tax Me, Bro" means that police departments nationwide have had to turn to other revenue streams such as fines and asset seizure to fund heir operations. Ferguson is not an outlier but fairly representative of so many municipalities nationwide that see the poorer members of a community not as "the public we serve and protect" but as the piggy bank they can squeeze. The police no longer see the average citizen as someone they should respect, but only as a possible revenue source. "Your money or your life" was once something that only crooks said. Unfortunately, many police departments have muscled in on the act.
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Public servants? Elected government officials also call themselves "public servants"? We see how effective they are in running the federal government.
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The fact that nationally, Police unions are recalibrating to higher levels of accountability, shows that too much public trust had been taken for granted. Trust, like respect, is earned through deeds, and law enforcement have been operating on assumption that their profession inherently merited both. Now, communities are unequivocally saying that cops, like citizens, will be held accountable for standing on the right side of the law.
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Liberal attacks against the police effectively support those of Scott Walker. Despite the differences in their views, both argue that police contributions to society are tainted by incompetence. Both attack the police based on isolated abuses, and fail to take a broad overview of the difficult and dangerous work of the police. Walker and the liberals demonize the police based on isolated instances of misconduct. Both attack legitimate union interests based principally on ideology. A pox on both ot their houses.
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That's a pretty wobbly comparison. For one thing, these "isolated incidents" of bad behavior by cops are looking less isolated, and more institutional, every day. For another, I don't see teacher unions revolting reflexively against any form of reasonable oversight and accountability.
Perhaps most important – and most obvious, or so I thought until I read your comment – is the fact that a few "bad apples" in classrooms may mean kids aren't taught as well as they could be, for that class or that school year; "bad apples" with badges and guns can kill people. Until recently, pretty much with impunity.
Let's keep some perspective.
Perhaps most important – and most obvious, or so I thought until I read your comment – is the fact that a few "bad apples" in classrooms may mean kids aren't taught as well as they could be, for that class or that school year; "bad apples" with badges and guns can kill people. Until recently, pretty much with impunity.
Let's keep some perspective.
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There are 5 or 6 known incidents of "bad behavior". and in most of those incidents, it was determined that the police hadn't acted criminally. Liberals are going anti-cop based on a couple of incidents out of thousands of incidents that occur daily. It is true that bad incidents can and do lead to death, but in lots of cases, failure to act can lead to a cop's death. Liberals assume that there are lots more incidents of bad behavior than what is known. But there is no hard evidence to that effect. Instead, they have developed a predisposition against cops based on not much. That's true for liberals and for Walker.
Let's get some perspective.
Let's get some perspective.
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"Walker and the liberals demonize the police based on isolated instances of misconduct." Sort of like how cops treat African-American/black men? Of course the difference is cops hold huge amounts of power, so holding them to higher or even equal standards seems totally reasonable. And just like how innocent black men should have nothing to fear from a cop (haha), good cops should have nothing to fear from massive amounts of civilian oversight.
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We tried aggressive policing and to what result? Murders dropped fom 2000 to less than 400. here in New York. When the body count starts to rise, those who dimantled the effective strategies must be hekd accountable. Some seem to think of high crime rates as a sort of dragon that has been slain. This summer will prove them wrong.
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Violent crime rates fell by similar amounts in places that did not implement aggressive policing policies.
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Bernard, violent and property crimes have been decreasing in the US for the past two decades, even in communities where the policing was not "aggressive". As has been stated countless times, correlation does not equal causation.
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You should watch freakanomics, it wasn't policing that dropped the crime rates.
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I greatly admire what NYPD and NYFD did on 9/11, but how about giving the common people some respect the other days of the year?