Ah yes, we hear the usual stuff about "the law abiding gun owners and their rights" and how it's the illegal guns that are the problem. Of course that isn't true as police have been shot when trying to stop domestic violence by law abiding gun owners.
And I assume that the law abiders won't mind if they are held responsible for gun violence that occurs when their guns get into the hands of their children or burglars who steal their guns because they haven't been stored safely. And that stores that sell guns won't mind if they're required to lock up their guns at night and/or have security guards protecting their deadly weapons so they won't be stolen. Illegal guns would be very hard to get if they weren't so easily available.
And I assume that the law abiders won't mind if they are held responsible for gun violence that occurs when their guns get into the hands of their children or burglars who steal their guns because they haven't been stored safely. And that stores that sell guns won't mind if they're required to lock up their guns at night and/or have security guards protecting their deadly weapons so they won't be stolen. Illegal guns would be very hard to get if they weren't so easily available.
4
This article is a blatant attempt to make something out of nothing, trying to frame the issue of further firearm restrictions into a federal level case. Yet its example is absurd to anyone with knowledge of firearms AND commonsense.
1) The firearms were stolen. So it really can't be said that lax gun laws in others states lead to their criminal use in NY.
2) The firearms used are simple, small capacity, revolvers. The stated capacity of one being only five rounds - below the illegal, new and draconian NY laws . I say illegal for the illegal means used to pass them.
1) The firearms were stolen. So it really can't be said that lax gun laws in others states lead to their criminal use in NY.
2) The firearms used are simple, small capacity, revolvers. The stated capacity of one being only five rounds - below the illegal, new and draconian NY laws . I say illegal for the illegal means used to pass them.
2
Does anyone seriously think that if Georgia were somehow sequestered from the rest of the U.S. that this shooter wouldn't have gotten a gun elsewhere? People bleat about "lax gun laws," yet we already have laws against theft of guns (broken here), murder (broken), possession by a felon (ditto), carrying a concealed weapon without a permit (double ditto), possession of an unregistered firearm (broken) and who knows what else. Does anyone really think that one more law, or even a dozen, is going to stop a determined killer? While there may be more we can do to police lax dealers, I find this article to be annoyingly irrelevant and distracting; it's less about guns and/or where they come from and more about why this person committed his crime. If we could get to the root causes of criminal behavior, nobody would care (or need to care) about guns.
7
"Does anyone really think that one more law, or even a dozen, is going to stop a determined killer? "
The only way to stop a determined ex-felon killer is to never let him out of jail or enforce the death penalty for everyone found guilty of murder.
The only way to stop a determined ex-felon killer is to never let him out of jail or enforce the death penalty for everyone found guilty of murder.
3
Stolen guns remain a huge problem in this country. From 2008-2010 ATF found that 62,000 guns were "missing" from inventory of the federally licensed dealers it audited. In 2011, 18,000 guns were discovered to be "missing" in the course of ATF inspections. Note that the ATF that year inspected less than 20% of FFL's. This is in addition to the 232,000 firearms stolen from homeowners annually during 2005-2010, with later year estimates of 200,000.
Most burglars are not armed, but if you leave your gun unsecured, you've now made that bad guy into a bad guy with a gun.
Most burglars are not armed, but if you leave your gun unsecured, you've now made that bad guy into a bad guy with a gun.
2
So, when will Mr. Blackwell be back on the streets on probation?
6
The NRA continues to block all common sense gun control measures which might prevent many of these guns ending up in the hands of criminals.
1
Like what? Outlawing pawn shops? Or outlawing the robbery of pawn shops?
Wait? Did the NRA oppose laws making it illegal to rob a pawn shop?
Wait? Did the NRA oppose laws making it illegal to rob a pawn shop?
4
This demonstrates the futility of gun legislation. Criminals stole these weapons, transported them across state lines, illegally sold these weapons, and then used them to shoot police officers. Demetrius Blackwell was a criminal. Why would such criminals follow additional gun control laws? Common sense tells us they wouldn't. All gun control laws do is impede the rights of law abiding American citizens.
14
Did I miss something? If the guns were stolen, what do the gun laws in GA have to do with anything?
13
Fortunately the Second Amendment provides me with the legal means of legally defending my right to self-preservation. The fact that so many states wish to take away the citizens right to stop a rape, murder, etc is justification enough to own, train with, and carry a gun daily. There has never, in all of my years, been a time when I thought "geez, I sure wish I didn't have this gun on me". Gun rights = Human Rights. No human should be forced to fist fight a murderer or rapist. No one should be forced into matching physical prowess with an attacker to avoid serious bodily harm.
8
We can thank the NRA for the plethora of guns along with the 10,000 Americans who shoot each other to death every year and the 20,000 Americans who shoot themselves to death each year.
2
There is abundant evidence that advanced Western nations with far stricter gun control than the US's also have higher suicide rates than the US.
And some of those Americans shooting each other each year are police officers shooting, uh, suspects. You want to blame the NRA for Danielle Willard, Ramarley Graham, Walter Scott, Michael Brown, and Freddie Gray, among others? Really?
And some of those Americans shooting each other each year are police officers shooting, uh, suspects. You want to blame the NRA for Danielle Willard, Ramarley Graham, Walter Scott, Michael Brown, and Freddie Gray, among others? Really?
2
The picture accompanying the article has a caption that says:
"Naseem Akhtar, with her 1-year-old daughter, Aiza, in her backyard in Queens after a police search for the gun used to kill an officer. It was found on Monday at an adjacent property."
So there's a picture of what appears to be a Muslim woman whose only connection is that she lived near where the gun was found and her home was trashed by the police. In other words, she's an innocent civilian, but when you share the article on Facebook, hers is the picture that shows up. You have to click the arrow to the next picture to get the photo of the gun shop.
Why NYT? Why are you singling out this Muslim woman in an article about guns and police deaths? Whether you intend to or not, you are making an association in reader's minds. Please, at the very least, switch the default picture for the article.
As to the police? Did they help her put her house back together after they trashed it?
"Naseem Akhtar, with her 1-year-old daughter, Aiza, in her backyard in Queens after a police search for the gun used to kill an officer. It was found on Monday at an adjacent property."
So there's a picture of what appears to be a Muslim woman whose only connection is that she lived near where the gun was found and her home was trashed by the police. In other words, she's an innocent civilian, but when you share the article on Facebook, hers is the picture that shows up. You have to click the arrow to the next picture to get the photo of the gun shop.
Why NYT? Why are you singling out this Muslim woman in an article about guns and police deaths? Whether you intend to or not, you are making an association in reader's minds. Please, at the very least, switch the default picture for the article.
As to the police? Did they help her put her house back together after they trashed it?
2
How do you know that she's Muslim?
Every time these tragedies happen, people raise their voices for both sides of the issue – yet nothing ever changes. There needs to be action – not pontification.
1
So let's try punishing the criminals before the law abiding citizens first.
7
Good point. As long as gun prohibitionists use every violent tragedy to try and outlaw law abiding citizens Constitutional rights the focus will remain away from reforming criminal punishment and rehabilitation.
2
The owner of the gun shop is NOT responsible for this " maniac" who pulled the trigger on officer Moore. MR Blackwell is an adult and he chose to commit this heinous crime. Yes the gun laws down south are extremely lax compared to the Northeast. The lifestyle is completely different from the big cities. If the gun came from Texas where gun laws are non existent could u imagine if New Yorkers told Texans on how to regulate gun laws. They would laugh in our face. The problem stems from: NY releasing violent inmates on early release period. NY is a very liberal state compared to: Southern states. The legislatures and politicians in NY need to get their act together and stop blaming and suing every southern state; have the doggone judges throw the book at these hardened criminals and put them away for life without parole period! The liberals in NY get involved and scream prison overcrowding and it becomes " political football". Gov Cuomo knows there are problem in the African- American community and NYS and the rest of the states need to work together and create opportunity for all or these fatalities will keep happening. Peace, love, and happiness go a long long way!!!
10
The problem here is the killer, not the gun. Mr. Blackwell is a career criminal and it didn't matter where the gun was from. Lets have an article about Mr. Blackwell's life and family and see if we can determine what made him into a killer. That is why Officer Moore is dead.
10
The easily accessible gun is what killed Officer Moore. Officer Moore would have stood a better chance if Mr. Blackwell had attacked him with a hammer or a pipe -neither of which are specifically designed for the sole purpose of killing humans.
3
"Easily accessible" through robbery.
Why is it some gun prohibitionists have a problem with legal guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, but not with criminal behavior perpetrated by career criminals?
Why is it some gun prohibitionists have a problem with legal guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, but not with criminal behavior perpetrated by career criminals?
3
Every right carries a responsibility with accountability. Why not guns? How about every gun carries a mandated insurance policy establishing liability for use of that gun to the owner. We do it with vehicles. How about the NRA create their own insurance to sell you. It's called risk management, new income stream for NRA.
6
Great suggestion, so long as the owner is not held accountable for what happens when the gun is stolen by a career criminal, as in this case.
4
Tell me, just how did that there secured gun get into the hands of the criminal again? Yes, he stole it. How is it he stole a secured gun? It WAS'NT secured!
Marilynn, are you familiar with "poll taxes" levied under "Jim Crow" laws back in the days of segregation? The were designed to keep poor citizens from being able to afford to vote. Thereby allowing racists to use poverty to keep law abiding citizens from exercising their Constitutional right to vote. Sound familiar?
America is awash with guns.
Death and injury from firearms shooting is an urgent national public health issue which needs to be addressed by all American citizens, Congress, and the executive branch of the federal government before there many more school killings and everyday murders of innocent, ordinary citizens!
And the second amendment must be replaced to clarify unambiguously that the intent of the original framers was the right to bear arms only as a member of a well regulated militia and that there is no individual right to own and bear arms.
******A Connecticut physician
Death and injury from firearms shooting is an urgent national public health issue which needs to be addressed by all American citizens, Congress, and the executive branch of the federal government before there many more school killings and everyday murders of innocent, ordinary citizens!
And the second amendment must be replaced to clarify unambiguously that the intent of the original framers was the right to bear arms only as a member of a well regulated militia and that there is no individual right to own and bear arms.
******A Connecticut physician
6
I notice all those new Connecticut gun laws that make Connecticut one of the hardest places in the nation for a law abiding citizen to purchase a firearm haven't done a thing to reduce the incidence of violent crime, including gun crime in that state.
Might that be because criminals don't care about the law?
And while you are re-writing the Second Amendment, could you explain why eight of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights are about empowering the people against the power of the Federal Government, one is about empowering the individual states against the power of the Federal Government, and yet, according to gun prohibitionists, only the 2nd Amendment is about empowering the Government to exercise more efficient governmental control over the people?
Might that be because criminals don't care about the law?
And while you are re-writing the Second Amendment, could you explain why eight of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights are about empowering the people against the power of the Federal Government, one is about empowering the individual states against the power of the Federal Government, and yet, according to gun prohibitionists, only the 2nd Amendment is about empowering the Government to exercise more efficient governmental control over the people?
3
“Bait alone doesn’t make you rich, but bait keeps people coming back." Tragically in this case, the bait was access to unsecured guns.
Unsecured guns? What guns are adequately secured? Not those insurance companies protect under their coverage rules for retail businesses? Which guns, then? Those at the bottom of the sea?
2
If Georgia is to be blamed for the tragic death of the police officer, do we blame American Airlines (or Logan or Newark Airports) for 9/11?
9
In the case of 9/11 we did not blame Logan Airport but the government did respond by substantially increasing airport security. In the tragic death of the police officer perhaps we should not blame Georgia for their lax gun laws but expect government to respond by substantially tightening gun restrictions. But then I forget....NRA has lobbyists and terrorists don't.
2
Not even remotely equivalent.... But in case you didn't realize - airports and airlines have made many many changes to prevent hijacking. So it appears airlines and airports did "feel" responsible. That or the laws that changed to prevent such acts. Meanwhile gun murders take more lives each year in this country.
1
Predator, and other armed military drones have done more to prevent future 9/11's than all the pat downs of grandmothers and children conducted at all the airports in the US since 9/11.
Amazingly stupid story and specious argument about guns from Georgia. The problem is actually strict gun laws in places like NY, NJ, Chicago, DC where honest citizens are restricted and criminals can easily buy guns on the street corner. If the premise about easy gun laws in other states was actually true, then those places would have massive numbers of shootings, with only a tiny bit of it spreading to NY. The facts are that they don't have problems there because honest citizens are not defenseless sheep like in NY and NJ. In NY or NJ a bad guy can go in and rob a gas station or convenience store with a very high level of confidence that he will be safe as most likely no one else has a gun. In free states, the criminals have to think long and hard about such actions as there is a very high likelihood another customer will take them down. That is what reduces crime, not making sheep out of honest citizens.
10
Howard, in this case, there were two good guys with guns "the officers" and they were still killed by a person who illegally obtained a gun in Georgia. Our problem is not the strict gun control laws in NY, NJ... The problem is the lax gun control laws in other states.
2
Just so you know... NYC has lower rates of violence than Atlanta (big city to big city) and NYS has lower rates than Georgia. Overall the northeast is much lower than the south.
I feel sorry for Naseem Akhtar, shown in the article holding a 1-year-old and standing in a back yard strewn with household items that should be, well, in the house. I hope the kind NYPD will put everything back where they found it.
5
Yes, pretty dramatic picture. I thpught there would be more about this in the article but there is nothing.
3
"No way to prevent this," says only nation where this regularly happens.
20
Red states have been requiring increasingly stringent facility requirements on their abortion clinics, to the point where most have had to close because they can't afford to turn their clinics into mini-hospitals. The reason given for these requirements is "to protect the woman's health."
Isn't it time to also demand stringent facility requirements on anyone who sells guns "to protect our citizen's health"? How about requiring armed security present during business hours, a steel safe anchored to the floor where all firearms must be stored after hours, and liability insurance for harm done by any stolen firearms? I'm sick of the right's double standard when it comes to protecting people's lives.
Isn't it time to also demand stringent facility requirements on anyone who sells guns "to protect our citizen's health"? How about requiring armed security present during business hours, a steel safe anchored to the floor where all firearms must be stored after hours, and liability insurance for harm done by any stolen firearms? I'm sick of the right's double standard when it comes to protecting people's lives.
13
@ Trakker - "...and liability insurance for harm done by any stolen firearms?"
I agreed with you up to this statement. However in your world if one steals a kitchen knife from a house and uses it to kill ten people, is the owner of the knife liable for the deaths?
Plus there are many "double standards" on both sides or do you suffer from willful blindness in a very partisan way?
I agreed with you up to this statement. However in your world if one steals a kitchen knife from a house and uses it to kill ten people, is the owner of the knife liable for the deaths?
Plus there are many "double standards" on both sides or do you suffer from willful blindness in a very partisan way?
2
And why does the left consistently refuse to place the blame for these horrible tragedies sqarely where it belongs, on the criminals??? This man stole this gun from a decent law abiding merchant. He has had run ins with the law before, some involving guns. Why is he not locked up for life? Stop blaming law abiding citizens and forever put away those that aren't. That is what will keep our people safe.
6
As a resident of Maryland what are you doing about the rioters who wrecked part of Baltimore? Is this a Blue State problem??
2
Thank you for this report. To Terrance Conklin's questions re: cars from Detroit, Japan, Germany-- I'd like to point out we have multiples tests before we grant a license to anyone who drives one of those Detroit, Japanese, German cars. Would Terrance be willing to submit to several exams to see if he is capable/responsible enough to own a gun? He could also show proof of insurance (as we do with auto insurance in my state) to make sure any injuries he causes are compensated.
I wonder if the NRA has all the gunners on payroll as their social media team? NYTimes, want to check into that? There is a suspiciously organized feel to the responses.
I wonder if the NRA has all the gunners on payroll as their social media team? NYTimes, want to check into that? There is a suspiciously organized feel to the responses.
4
The main lesson is that people move freely between states, and often have ties in multiple places, and so it is not difficult to obtain guns legally. And it is not difficult to transport any weapon, plus a lucrative black market has been created.
For drugs, I have supported a switch to decriminalization with government oversight of dispensing - as with methadone - for those who will continue to use. We want to get rid of suppliers, who also seem to be prime users of illegal weapons. IDestroy their marketing advantage . . .
Clearly control of guns has to be nationwide to avoid such easy access - which isn't going to happen. But I am not certain that this instance of a robbery holds a real lesson -- other than to illustrate the path that the stolen guns travel - the corridors that drugs travel through.
For drugs, I have supported a switch to decriminalization with government oversight of dispensing - as with methadone - for those who will continue to use. We want to get rid of suppliers, who also seem to be prime users of illegal weapons. IDestroy their marketing advantage . . .
Clearly control of guns has to be nationwide to avoid such easy access - which isn't going to happen. But I am not certain that this instance of a robbery holds a real lesson -- other than to illustrate the path that the stolen guns travel - the corridors that drugs travel through.
1
There is a lesson here. Gun zealots frequently point to cities with strict gun laws but lots of shooting deaths and tell us, "See, gun control doesn't work!" They never acknowledge that many of those guns come from outside the city. By the way, this wasn't a case of just one stolen gun. No, they stole 23(!) at one time. And then they stole even more guns soon after! Doesn't a state have a responsibility to make sure dangerous products aren't routinely stolen from their businesses and used to kill cops and other innocent citizens? These aren't toys that are being stolen.
5
Cheryl, "it's not difficult to transport any weapon..." Tell that to the Pennsylvania woman who inadvertently transported her legal in Pennsylvania into New Jersey. She was thrown in jail and it took a pardon by Chris Christie to resolve the issue. Or tell it to the person flying through New York whose connecting flight was cancelled. They picked up their bags went to the hotel for the night and were promptly arrested when they tried to check back in for having an illegal gun in New York.
These are the things people who are trying to follow the law face. You should educate yourself on the issue.
These are the things people who are trying to follow the law face. You should educate yourself on the issue.
4
@ Trakker - "They never acknowledge that many of those guns come from outside the city."
It is however acknowledged that the shooters of those guns come from INSIDE the city. Under Prohibition booze sold illegally in cities came from outside the cities and outside the country, so what is your point?
It is however acknowledged that the shooters of those guns come from INSIDE the city. Under Prohibition booze sold illegally in cities came from outside the cities and outside the country, so what is your point?
4
What do "looser gun laws" have to do with a burglary?
9
Motive, stupid.
2
"Law enforcement officials have... focused on Georgia and... states with looser gun laws..."
Does GA have looser laws regarding burglary? The gun that killed Officer Moore was stolen. It was not purchased by means of a "loose" law.
How are laws in GA different from NYC? What makes them "looser"? What other "surrounding states" have looser laws? How are they different from other states? Is buying a gun in GA easier than buying a gun in, say, Texas? Montana? Alaska?
The story points out that the gun used to kill officers Liu and Ramos was "purchased legally." Was the purchaser required to undergo a background check? Did he pass? How?
The story asserts, without any support, that the store it was purchased in is the "leading out-of-state source of guns recovered in crimes by the NYPD." That is a claim that screams for more detail. Perhaps a quote from an ATF, NYPD or FBI agent. Instead, there is a link to more NY Times reporting.
What is the leading "in-state" source of guns? Is that source, presumably the black market, a greater source? How many guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state? How many from "in-state"? How many were stolen?
This story is intentionally misleading and leaves out significant and relevant detail.
Does GA have looser laws regarding burglary? The gun that killed Officer Moore was stolen. It was not purchased by means of a "loose" law.
How are laws in GA different from NYC? What makes them "looser"? What other "surrounding states" have looser laws? How are they different from other states? Is buying a gun in GA easier than buying a gun in, say, Texas? Montana? Alaska?
The story points out that the gun used to kill officers Liu and Ramos was "purchased legally." Was the purchaser required to undergo a background check? Did he pass? How?
The story asserts, without any support, that the store it was purchased in is the "leading out-of-state source of guns recovered in crimes by the NYPD." That is a claim that screams for more detail. Perhaps a quote from an ATF, NYPD or FBI agent. Instead, there is a link to more NY Times reporting.
What is the leading "in-state" source of guns? Is that source, presumably the black market, a greater source? How many guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state? How many from "in-state"? How many were stolen?
This story is intentionally misleading and leaves out significant and relevant detail.
10
Good questions.
Please petition the NRA to stop obstructing research, data collection and reporting gun violence, and you may get the answers for your questions.
Please petition the NRA to stop obstructing research, data collection and reporting gun violence, and you may get the answers for your questions.
13
The answers to the questions I posed are known to the New York Times. Their reporters neglected to provide those answers because the answers don't fit the story. They set out to do a story about Georgia and the "iron pipeline." They aren't going to let any silly little things like facts and details get in the way of that agenda.
This story doesn't have anything to do with the NRA. To their credit, the Times did not use this piece to vilify the NRA. They don't even mention the NRA. Why would you? Why would you think the NRA obstructs research, data collection and reporting gun violence? They're not a regulatory agency. Those questions would be better answered if they were directed to elected officials, law enforcement agencies and regulators.
This story doesn't have anything to do with the NRA. To their credit, the Times did not use this piece to vilify the NRA. They don't even mention the NRA. Why would you? Why would you think the NRA obstructs research, data collection and reporting gun violence? They're not a regulatory agency. Those questions would be better answered if they were directed to elected officials, law enforcement agencies and regulators.
5
@Johannes - it has been perfectly apparent and widely acknowledged that over the past couple decades, the NRA and smaller, less-powerful gun rights groups have lobbied heavily against any of the aforementioned research being performed at all. They may not be pulling the strings directly as a regulatory agency, but there have been and continue to be a large number of elected officials who will do just about anything to avoid the wrath of the NRA's lobbying arm. Thus, budget appropriations spell out precisely that X funds are barred from being used to conduct studies on crimes or deaths or injuries relating to firearms, based on the staunch belief that any and all research that could even be remotely negative or poorly reflect the place of guns and the right to use them in this US. Beholden politicians apparently preferred the NRA's donations - or at least their willingness to withhold outright attacks - to the principle of rigorous scientific study, leading us to the state we're in today, in which we largely grope half-blind for information.
Conveniently, the lack of research allows ample room to squirm out of any sense of accountability or awareness - an empty space that can then be filled with the righteous cry of, "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun!"
Conveniently, the lack of research allows ample room to squirm out of any sense of accountability or awareness - an empty space that can then be filled with the righteous cry of, "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun!"
Georgia's two biggest exports...peaches and gun deaths.
As American as apple pie...
As American as apple pie...
9
The gun was STOLEN in Georgia. How does Georgia's less obstructive gun laws have anything to do with this gun being used in a crime in New York? Is it legal to steal guns in Georgia?
If the first amendment were as persecuted as the second, the country would be on fire.
If the first amendment were as persecuted as the second, the country would be on fire.
7
Moral hazard! Loose laws equal loose guns in the hands of criminals. If the gun shop doesn't suffer any legal repercussion and has insurance, he is not motivated to invest in securing his shop. In fact having guns stolen by a bugler is good marketing, he is getting free advertising in the news, and promoting the sale of gun through people's fear of buglers. This is the NRAs prime marketing strategy "fear".
1
MOTIVE. Guns are harder to get in NY--therefore the profit MOTIVE. Jeez, do we have to draw you gunsuckers a PICTURE?
2
Then perhaps a more constitutional approach to gun rights is in order.
Is that picture what NYPD did to that lady's HOUSE???
10
As usual, the liberal loons come out of the woodwork. The "liberal" gun laws in other states cited as the problem. Did anyone read the article about the robbery?
I'll translate their nonsense -- "If handguns didn't exist, then they couldn't be stolen and thus couldn't be used in another state." Thanks for keeping it real.
I'll translate their nonsense -- "If handguns didn't exist, then they couldn't be stolen and thus couldn't be used in another state." Thanks for keeping it real.
9
Here's real: this sort of tragedy regularly happens Only in the US. What's the difference? It's the guns. Period. No reasonable person thinks guns have nothing to do with gun violence. If you want to legally keep your guns, join in the conversation about how to control their proliferation.
This was a pretty pointless article. How about one on where the next hit and run involved car was built? Detroit? Japan? Germany? Inquiring minds want to know!
6
This logic is so flawed. Cars are not sold to be primarily used as hit and run vehicles; pistols are sold to primarly shoot and kill. Cars have to be licensed, drivers have to be licensed. In a hit and run both the car and driver are easily traced and the assailant documented; it's not so easy to find the owner of an unlicensed gun.
5
We have the most restrictive gun laws of the fifty states. You need a permit to acquire and a two week wait. The permit to acquire it is valid for one year for long guns and you can purchase as many long guns that you want in that year. Hand guns need a new permit to acquire for each purchase (unless you purchase all of your hand guns from one dealer at one time). As soon as you purchase your gun you have five days (two days for handguns) to get down to the police station and register your weapon. Once you register your weapon you take it home and lock it up. If it is a private gun sale you do it all at once and the transaction takes place at the police station. How and where you transport your weapons is prescribed. You can transport your weapons from point a to point b unloaded, you cannot stop at a 7-11 for a Big Gulp, or go shopping, or visit a friend while transporting your weapon from, say, home to the target range or hunting area and back. I like it fine. I don't surrender my right to bear arms but it forces me to be responsible for owning a potentially lethal weapon. In my home or farm, on private property, I can carry it, brandish it, load it unload it, strip it, clean it, lock it up in a gun safe but if I fire it or walk off my property with it I am committing a felony. No, it does not prevent gun violence or criminal use of weapons but we have a very low rate of criminal gun violence or domestic abuse involving guns and the weapon can be used in self-defense.
22
Hawai'i is truly paradise. And folks like you are part of why. Thanks.
If only the rest of us had as much sense.
I understand that the NYTimes has an anti gun agenda but this case is really thin. A legal business was robbed. Pawn shops in most states deal in guns. Trying to place blame for this tragic death on this store is absurd. If my car is stolen from my locked garage by joy riders and they kill someone in a hit and run am I responsible either legally or morally?
9
Because the only thing worse than the old democratic bigots we used to have here in GA are the republican bigots who think every white person should have lots of guns. And our laws just got worse a year ago because cops cannot question people to see if they have a license to carry when cops see them with a gun. Georgia believes in blasting away at everyone. And the white males control our legislature as they always have done.
4
When gun control is as stringent as abortion control, we'll have a safer country.
12
Why are people talking about gun control in relation to this story? This was a stolen gun used by a criminal to commit an illegal act.
The problem was one of police procedure. As reported in the news, does it make any sense to roll up on a suspect and ask them in a completely defenseless position, "have you got something in your pants?"
Why "yes I do" came the response.
Same thing happened in Ferguson with Officer Wilson rolling up in the car next to Michael Brown...it was totally inappropriate and led to tragic confrontation.
The problem was one of police procedure. As reported in the news, does it make any sense to roll up on a suspect and ask them in a completely defenseless position, "have you got something in your pants?"
Why "yes I do" came the response.
Same thing happened in Ferguson with Officer Wilson rolling up in the car next to Michael Brown...it was totally inappropriate and led to tragic confrontation.
5
So, Northern taxes pay for Southern welfare programs, and Southern guns come up North to kill New Yorkers.
That sounds like a reasonable arrangement.
That sounds like a reasonable arrangement.
9
"Southern guns come up to New York..." Did the guns buy a plane ticket or ride a bicycle?
So the tougher gun laws in the destination state didn't make the guns less available, merely more expensive.
6
It has been said that a stolen gun is more expensive than a legal one because it is untraceable.
1
No, Chuck, if that were the case how did they trace it to Georgia?
It's supply and demand. The gun is more expensive because the supply is small (gun control) but the demand is high because with New York being a gun free zone, it's easy to rob all those 8 million sitting ducks if you have a gun because you know that they don't have one to defend themselves.
It's supply and demand. The gun is more expensive because the supply is small (gun control) but the demand is high because with New York being a gun free zone, it's easy to rob all those 8 million sitting ducks if you have a gun because you know that they don't have one to defend themselves.
Its amazing how when a bomb or IED (Improvised Explosive Device) goes off everyone blames the terrorist. But when a gun goes off we blame the gun? History has proven that when something is made illegal it is only driven underground and costs more. If someone wants firearms they will find a way to get them, legally or otherwise. There are "gun runners" who will legally purchase firearms, often through "straw man" buyers, sneak them into NYC, then sell them for 3-4 times what they paid. Some (for extra money) will sell "clean" guns that were purchased legally, are still in the box, have never been fired or used in the commission of a crime. Meaning that those particular guns are not even being looked for by anyone. More gun control isn't the answer because it doesn't work.
RIP Officer Brian Moore.
RIP Officer Brian Moore.
6
The article does not blame the gun,
Gun control does not mean controlling the guns, but controlling access to guns and the behavior of those who own and use guns. Please stop peddling worn-out talking points of right-wing talk shows.
Gun control does not mean controlling the guns, but controlling access to guns and the behavior of those who own and use guns. Please stop peddling worn-out talking points of right-wing talk shows.
1
Works in Britain and Australia (to name but two countries).
The murder rate in Britain and Australia increased after they banned guns.
http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rat...
http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rat...
Southern states like South Carolina are awash in guns. South Carolina's governor got a Beretta for Christmas from her husband and said "I must have been a very good girl." She signed legislation allowing guns in bars. She welcomed a Connecticut gun manufacturer after the Newtown child massacre drove it from Connecticut. None of her actions say much for the state of South Carolina which also ranked number one in 2013 for deaths of spouses sparked by domestic abuse.
7
How many more of these exist, and won't be confiscated, since Diblasio ended stop and frisk? The blood continues to be on his hands.
4
The Iron Pipeline angle does not apply to this killing either.
When the two police were killed in December, the same Iron Pipeline angle was forwarded. It didn't apply then because the killer brought the gun with him from Baltimore. There was no trafficking angle to it at all.
Here, we again see no gun trafficking due to loose gun laws. No Iron Pipeline angle. The gun was stolen from a shop in Georgia, and stealing is a crime. It is the criminal element in New York City that is at fault for the illegal guns there, not the state legislatures where people have a tradition of responsible gun ownership.
If New York City wants to rid itself of its illegal guns and does not care about constitutional rights, then it can conduct a city-wide prison-style shake down. Police can go block-to-block and search and seize all illegal guns and illegal contraband from peoples homes. The evidence will never be used in prosecutions because the searches will violate the 4th Amendment that protects against illegal search and seizure, but the illegal guns and other contraband will not have to be returned either.
New York City is the problem with New York City.
When the two police were killed in December, the same Iron Pipeline angle was forwarded. It didn't apply then because the killer brought the gun with him from Baltimore. There was no trafficking angle to it at all.
Here, we again see no gun trafficking due to loose gun laws. No Iron Pipeline angle. The gun was stolen from a shop in Georgia, and stealing is a crime. It is the criminal element in New York City that is at fault for the illegal guns there, not the state legislatures where people have a tradition of responsible gun ownership.
If New York City wants to rid itself of its illegal guns and does not care about constitutional rights, then it can conduct a city-wide prison-style shake down. Police can go block-to-block and search and seize all illegal guns and illegal contraband from peoples homes. The evidence will never be used in prosecutions because the searches will violate the 4th Amendment that protects against illegal search and seizure, but the illegal guns and other contraband will not have to be returned either.
New York City is the problem with New York City.
14
Peculiar that you are writing from Washington DC - which per capita is much more dangerous than NYC. The guns doing the higher rate of killing in DC and Georgia are usually illegal too.
Guns are like drugs. A long as there is a demand for them, there will be a supply, domestic or foreign, legal or illegal. If you eliminate one source of illegal guns, another source will emerge. Profitable traffic in contraband cannot be eliminated by eliminating any single source.
7
Some observations on the article:
"Law enforcement officials have long focused on Georgia and neighboring states with looser gun laws as the starting point of a so-called iron pipeline of guns flowing north, to New York and other cities, where the restrictions on legal gun purchases are more stringent — and the profits higher for traffickers."
1) The tough gun laws in New York do not stop criminals from having guns, but it makes guns more valuable to criminals and therefore draws them in from other areas. Why?
2) In the land of the blind a one-eyed man is king. In the land of strict gun control, that is, where the populace is virtually guaranteed to be unarmed, any criminal with a gun rules.
3) We hear the argument put forth in this article a lot. New York, Chicago, Detroit, are all trying to control guns but it's those other red neck states that are the problem. Really? Then why don't these red neck states with the easy access to guns have the same crime problem as Chicago? HInt: The citizens in those states can also carry a concealed firearm, so the criminals there focus more on property crimes where no one is around who might shoot back, e.g., auto theft, burglary when no one is home.
4) Drugs are a major driving forces for gun violence. If you are a drug dealer and someone moves in on your territory, what are you going to do, call the police?
"Law enforcement officials have long focused on Georgia and neighboring states with looser gun laws as the starting point of a so-called iron pipeline of guns flowing north, to New York and other cities, where the restrictions on legal gun purchases are more stringent — and the profits higher for traffickers."
1) The tough gun laws in New York do not stop criminals from having guns, but it makes guns more valuable to criminals and therefore draws them in from other areas. Why?
2) In the land of the blind a one-eyed man is king. In the land of strict gun control, that is, where the populace is virtually guaranteed to be unarmed, any criminal with a gun rules.
3) We hear the argument put forth in this article a lot. New York, Chicago, Detroit, are all trying to control guns but it's those other red neck states that are the problem. Really? Then why don't these red neck states with the easy access to guns have the same crime problem as Chicago? HInt: The citizens in those states can also carry a concealed firearm, so the criminals there focus more on property crimes where no one is around who might shoot back, e.g., auto theft, burglary when no one is home.
4) Drugs are a major driving forces for gun violence. If you are a drug dealer and someone moves in on your territory, what are you going to do, call the police?
6
If you happen to read crime statistics, you will see that gun violence is much higher in those places with lax gun control laws than those with stricter ones. The idea that everyone carrying a gun reduces gun violence is contradicted by the facts.
7
Really, Steve? Chicago has about the toughest gun laws in the country, until recently concealed carry was illegal. The same goes for Washington DC. They have among the highest murder rates in the country. Plano, Texas is perhaps the safest city in the country. Texas is a Shall Issue state.
What are your facts, Steve?
What are your facts, Steve?
Once again we get into the argument about guns don't kill its people who kill. America has more guns than people so what can be done? School shootings, drive by shootings, gang shootings and so on. Babies shooting babies, babies shooting parents and babies shooting parents and so on. Once the shock of the shooting is over we go back to what we know best more shootings. Heroin kills less people than guns we regulate it. We even regulate our garbage but just can't get the will to regulate our guns. Australia have a gun problem they did something drastic and now their gun problem is almost gone. We in America must let our standing Militia stay armed because their maybe another invasion of the Red Coats! Sad the young officer died in the performance of his duties also sad when innocents die because we as a society runs scared anytime any gun regulation is proposed. I find police unions at fault here also. With the clout they carry with the right I cannot understand why they don't come out for better gun control. My IPhone will not work unless it reads my fingerprint or I enter my password. Wouldn't it be a start if made it mandatory for future and existing guns to have that? There are so many things we could do to stop the killing of innocent people. If we could save one officer one child isn't worth it. There must be some middle ground so our Militia can still be ready for the invasion of the Red Coats. Our urban cowboys need their iron at the ready while cruising the hood. Wow!
1
" My IPhone will not work unless it reads my fingerprint or I enter my password"
And how often does it not work? Would you trust your life to such a security system? I doubt that we will ever see the police or or dear leader's secret service using smart guns so why should only "ordinary people" be stuck with them.
And how often does it not work? Would you trust your life to such a security system? I doubt that we will ever see the police or or dear leader's secret service using smart guns so why should only "ordinary people" be stuck with them.
With the heightened & often justified outrage about police actions, this situation demands its own reaction. I support the death penalty in only extreme situations. There is no doubt this murderer took the policeman's life - in a cold & callous way. He should be put in front of a firing squad and executed. He holds no value to our society and his cold bloodedness needs to be rewarded.
4
Wouldn't it be interesting if police departments across the nation started to support rational gun control. The facts in this article should really provoke them to do so. And with the addition of almost a million voices and votes to those already supporting rational gun control, these numbers could be a counter force to the NRA.
25
Sorry MJ, police departments are against gun control and are in favor of concealed carry.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
I wouldn't characterize all police departments as being opposed to rational gun policies. If anything, some are more supportive of restrictions than their state's politicians & lobbyists. Here in FL, the LEO often strongly opposed to Stand Your Ground laws - not that their concerns prevented the laws from passage. This year the legislative talk was about concealed carry on college campuses, and LEOs were, to say the least, not particularly pleased at the prospect. Not because they are opposed to people protecting themselves; quite the opposite. Rather, it's because the laws can seem fine in theory but then lead to tragic situations, whether they involved accidents, drunken encounters or fights, heat-of-the moment shootings, theft of weapons, and so on. And it has been rather difficult for LEOs here to swallow having to see a person they are quite certain committed a crime go free because the person was "standing his ground" and the law allows him or her to do so - even if the circumstances likely involved criminal activity, for example. Situations like that don't make a sheriff's life any easier when the goal is maintaining public safety.
I am not in law enforcement, so I can't speak directly to what is likely a broad range of opinion within the field - but my observation in my state is that the police have a healthy skepticism, or outright opposition, to concealed carry and the like.
I am not in law enforcement, so I can't speak directly to what is likely a broad range of opinion within the field - but my observation in my state is that the police have a healthy skepticism, or outright opposition, to concealed carry and the like.
Right now it is illegal to report on gun injuries in any conformed comprehensive way. The NRA is committed to controlling all comprehensive information on who owns guns and where. They should be compelled and subpoenaed to turn over their records to a national registry board, and they should be jailed for contempt if they resist this move.
In this increasingly unstable world it is clear that guns are way too freely available for the safety of our populace. The NRA presents this choice to Americans living in the states they control: ''Gun Up or Shut Up."
Pro-gun advocates regularly post self-serving talking points like, "I won't bother picking up the phone when I see a burglar roll his truck to by neighbor's house when they're away on vacation. Let's see if they're still for gun control after that." Threaten much?
There needs to be a strong and impassioned movement for comprehensive gun control, repeal or serious amendment to the second amendment. Nothing less will save lives and allow for a more civil society.
In this increasingly unstable world it is clear that guns are way too freely available for the safety of our populace. The NRA presents this choice to Americans living in the states they control: ''Gun Up or Shut Up."
Pro-gun advocates regularly post self-serving talking points like, "I won't bother picking up the phone when I see a burglar roll his truck to by neighbor's house when they're away on vacation. Let's see if they're still for gun control after that." Threaten much?
There needs to be a strong and impassioned movement for comprehensive gun control, repeal or serious amendment to the second amendment. Nothing less will save lives and allow for a more civil society.
5
The problem is that cigarette smokers knowing it was bad didn't fight when laws were passed against smoking. And the laws escalated.
The NRA watched that fight and because of it will fight tooth and nail against any limits for gun ownership. While I can't blame the NRA for their reasoning the shootings we've seen in recent years clearly calls for gun control.
The argument that "guns don't kill people, people do" flies in the face of the NRA's attacks of any background checks for gun buyers. The NRA has also fought against hollow point bullets, no sportsman/woman would use such a bullet.
The NRA may not like it but we need gun control in the United States. Sportsmen/women have nothing to fear.
The NRA watched that fight and because of it will fight tooth and nail against any limits for gun ownership. While I can't blame the NRA for their reasoning the shootings we've seen in recent years clearly calls for gun control.
The argument that "guns don't kill people, people do" flies in the face of the NRA's attacks of any background checks for gun buyers. The NRA has also fought against hollow point bullets, no sportsman/woman would use such a bullet.
The NRA may not like it but we need gun control in the United States. Sportsmen/women have nothing to fear.
11
Target shooters use "hollow point" bullets almost exclusively. The reason is that for the same weight, they are longer which makes them more accurate.
2
Gun control for a burglary? Are there not laws against burglary and theft no matter what is stolen? Is it possible to regulate the sale of a gun from one thief to another?
A permit to purchase a firearm after a background check is required in most states including my own. No permit is issued to a felon or adjudicated mentally ill person. In addition the FBI NICS line has to clear the sale at the gun store. How much regulation do you need?
A permit to purchase a firearm after a background check is required in most states including my own. No permit is issued to a felon or adjudicated mentally ill person. In addition the FBI NICS line has to clear the sale at the gun store. How much regulation do you need?
1
Actually, many hunting bullets are hollow points.
3
Instead of trying to place the blame for this tragedy on the weapon, the original owner of the weapon, or the pawn shop from which the weapon was stolen.....how about putting the blame squarely where it belongs.....1st on the low life criminal that pulled the trigger, and 2nd on the judge who turned this creep loose on the streets.
Right now, the only people I know of with guns in NYC are the police and the criminals. However, with the way things are going as of late, soon only the criminals will have the guns.
Right now, the only people I know of with guns in NYC are the police and the criminals. However, with the way things are going as of late, soon only the criminals will have the guns.
46
America is awash in guns and it does not make its citizens or its police safer - quite the reverse, as this story all too clearly shows. In allowing virtually everyone access to a firearm, this society is incapable of keeping them out of the hands of anyone - whether a thug or a child bent on murder in his school. But then, of course, the gun zealots can use the mayhem they cause to justify the need for more guns in a vicious circle that most advanced countries avoid by having sensible restrictions on firearm possession.
19
New Yorkers need to wake up. The old canard about only criminals having guns is contrary to the facts. According to a Gauker article from 2013 there are over 300,000 registered gun licenses in New York and over 1.3 million in the state. Estimates are that there are over 300 million firearms in the nation.
That's approximately one gun for every man, woman and child. Hunters have guns, politicians have guns, celebrities have guns. The well trained like former law enforcement officers keep private weapons, but so do the un-trained, poorly trained, people on psychotropic drugs, people who are mentally unstable and anyone and everyone who wants a weapon will find one either legally, or as with the man who killed the police officer, illegally.
Thanks to the NRA and a Supreme Court who decided that the judges who preceded them for the last 200 years didn't know how to read the 2nd Amendment we are one of the most gun addicted, violent countries in the world. Those that surpass us, like Mexico or Columbia of course have their guns shipped to them from gun happy US manufacturers.
We have as a nation simply lost our collective minds to fear, distrust and disconnection from our fellow human beings. God help us because we know not how to help ourselves.
That's approximately one gun for every man, woman and child. Hunters have guns, politicians have guns, celebrities have guns. The well trained like former law enforcement officers keep private weapons, but so do the un-trained, poorly trained, people on psychotropic drugs, people who are mentally unstable and anyone and everyone who wants a weapon will find one either legally, or as with the man who killed the police officer, illegally.
Thanks to the NRA and a Supreme Court who decided that the judges who preceded them for the last 200 years didn't know how to read the 2nd Amendment we are one of the most gun addicted, violent countries in the world. Those that surpass us, like Mexico or Columbia of course have their guns shipped to them from gun happy US manufacturers.
We have as a nation simply lost our collective minds to fear, distrust and disconnection from our fellow human beings. God help us because we know not how to help ourselves.
2
The assailant is in custody. I believe that speaks to blame for the crime. It's offensive to me that average people living their lives are endangered because we as a country can't regulate a consumer product rationally. As to no guns being available to solid citizens, that's blatantly false.
If you want to get some more interesting news items, follow the guns that police departments around the country sell regularly. Thousands of guns are moved in tis manner, the departments generally claiming that they can't afford not to sell sieged guns. It makes sense that police can't take away every gun from criminals (there are way too many in circulation), but do police departments have to aid in the cause of putting guns on the street? Scandalous.
25
Are you suggesting the police are selling guns to criminals? In reality, they are being sold to individuals who have been cleared via' background checks and have permits to own/carry the weapons. The guns sales help raise money for cash strapped departments and the buyers get a reduced price in many cases. So, just where is the problem?
7
The problem, Phil, is that contrary to (I imagine) your deeply held beliefs about gun ownership, that putting more weapons into circulation leads to more accidental deaths, more stolen guns, more violence, more fear on the part of the police, and generally a host of negative consequences that are all, apparently, trumped by the fetish some men have for handguns. I gather it makes them feel powerful, or something... So the problem is that it's a stupid thing to do.
5
Erich, guns and pop psychology are a strange mix. With 300 million guns in civilian hands, having some hundreds sold to responsible, licensed individuals does not look like a problem to me. As a fetish, guns would be a strange choice as they can be very dangerous as opposed to high heels or chocolate bunnies. I am glad you are safe up in the woods of Vermont.
I'm waiting for the police around the country to come down strongly against our lax gun laws, as it makes their job so much more dangerous and difficult. They could really make an impact if they came together and lobbied hard. But I suspect the police culture won't let this happen.
61
It won't happen because the majority of law enforcement personal support the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns. They understand that the problem is people with guns who are not allowed to possess them under current laws eg. felons. And that increased gun control will not change that.
4
The police around the country support allowing law abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. New York politicians don't get it, probably because their constituents, mostly in NYC and Long Island, refuse to hear the other side of the gun control argument.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
3
To purchase a handgun in most states one must have a background check by the Sheriff. If you are a felon or court adjudicated person deemed mentally ill you cannot receive a permit. Those who do receive a permit must then be checked against the FBI's NICS national restriction list at the gun store at the time of purchase. Is that laxness?
2
I am sad and numb. Whether it's young black men or young police officers--the killings are heart-breaking.
13
As with cars, all guns should have Certificates of Title and Gun Insurance. Owners are to be held Vicariously Liable for all harm done by their guns regardless of who does the harm. If you know that you'll be held responsible for harm caused by your guns you'll safeguard them so crooks or your lunatic kid can't get at them. You're not fool enough to leave your car unlocked with the keys in it, are you? It should be the same with guns.
Bullets should be traceable to the purchaser just like the eggs I buy, each of which is imprinted with a code.
None of this is at odds with that pesky Second Amendment which remains in full force and effect.
Bullets should be traceable to the purchaser just like the eggs I buy, each of which is imprinted with a code.
None of this is at odds with that pesky Second Amendment which remains in full force and effect.
109
mike is genius!
1
Sorry Mike, but driving is not a constitutional right. It's a privilege. The 2nd amendment, however, IS a right. Please understand the simple difference between the two.
5
Homeowners liability insurance already covers accidents that occur unless the gun was used in the commission of a crime. A gun not under the control of the owner as in a theft is no different than a stolen car used to hurt someone. The issue, the item under the insurance must be under the control of the owner. No insurance company will cover a stolen item used in a crime.
1
Whenever I read about a horrible shooting I am again appalled at how the Supreme Court misread and gutted, apparently deliberately, the Second Amendment in two decisions, in 2008 and 2010. Those decisions essentially eliminated the required association of firearms with "a well regulated militia".
Suppose that access to guns had actually been restricted and regulated in Georgia. Then the small shops in rural Georgia that were burgled would not even have had the types of guns that were used in the two killings. And also they would probably have been subject to stringent requirements to keep whatever guns that they did have properly secured and not just displayed on a wall.
Suppose that access to guns had actually been restricted and regulated in Georgia. Then the small shops in rural Georgia that were burgled would not even have had the types of guns that were used in the two killings. And also they would probably have been subject to stringent requirements to keep whatever guns that they did have properly secured and not just displayed on a wall.
59
Is the manufacture of heroin legal in the United States? Do we still have a heroin problem in the United States? So, then banning something does not eliminate it does it?
In Switzerland, every adult male is required by law to keep a fully automatic (not the semi-automatic type sold in the US) rifle in their home as part of their military service. The murder rate in Switzerland is very low. Could that be because a criminal does not want to enter a house where the owner has a machine gun?
In Switzerland, every adult male is required by law to keep a fully automatic (not the semi-automatic type sold in the US) rifle in their home as part of their military service. The murder rate in Switzerland is very low. Could that be because a criminal does not want to enter a house where the owner has a machine gun?
I wonder if there is a way that NY or other states which have restricted access to guns can sue the gun toting states when a gun which is not sold legally in that state to a verified resident of that state and which is not adequately protected by stringent tracing elements on said gun is used criminally in the restricted access state.
45
Also, there should be a way to sue the owner of said gun even if the gun is "stolen" as so often reported; although not every gun that is reported stolen is actually stolen. There should be legislation to hold the owner legally responsible in the "donor" state.
17
If the owner says the gun was stolen and reports it to the police that's the end of it. A friend in New Your City had to have 1300 tickets for expired license plates that were stolen from his car a year prior adjudicated by a judge so he could register his car. Fortunately he had proof of the theft from his police report so he wan't responsible. Do you think he sold his license plates?
Why do the "gun toting" states have a lower murder rate than Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and other areas with strict gun control? If the guns are the problem, why are the areas with less gun restrictions safer?
2
Guns do not kill people, people kill people.
16
More pablum from the NRA types out in force tonight then! So much for your patriotism and empathy for this young man Officer Moore who wore the uniform to serve his fellow citizens.
51
But guns remove all the effort required to kill one's fellow man.
23
GREAT!
No problem taking away the guns, then.
No problem taking away the guns, then.
20
Nice handgun, in a legal owner's hands it save a life as well as take one. After this armed Black offender gets life w/o parole, see that it goes back home to Georgia, for immediate sale to a police officer, so it can do both if necessary. Thanks, in advance.
6
Why, then, is gun crime just as prevalent in gun-toting states as in gun-restricting states?
1
I'd me more interested in learning the path that led the alleged assailant to murder Officer Moore. I've read that he had been convicted of attempted murder and had a history of being violated for parole violations. I've also read that he threatened a person with a gun last year and smashed a car's windshield with a brick. I'm presuming that he was on parole. Given his history, why was he on the streets? Did he fall between the cracks? Did parole remove him from active supervision? Or did he successfully complete his parole and have no supervision in the community? These are questions I would like to see answered.
66
It isn't an either/or question - we need tighter control over obviously violent offenders AND firearms. One without the other is simplistic thinking.
You can answer all of your own questions by using the google device on your computer machine.
You are correct. Both trails need to be followed.
R.I.P. Officer Moore. You were too young to die. My deepest condolences to your family and loved ones.
And I suppose Mr. LaPierre and his minions at the NRA and on the right would insist that Demetrius Blackwell's apparent right to bear arms (without any seemingly common sense checks) outweighed young Officer Moore's RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND HAPPINESS. Shame on all Democratic and Republican politicians who are in the pockets of the gun lobby. What good does it do for one state to have tough gun violence prevention laws when residents of that state can get seemingly any and all guns from states with no restrictions?
People on both sides ask why our police are so militarized. Why does it seem many people are unaware that some part of that militarization might have to do with the virtually, free unfettered access to the most lethal and destructive of weapons to almost every citizen - criminal or mentally challenged? We are not going to allow you to manipulate us into silence by saying is "inappropriate to bring politics into such a time of tragedy."
This young officer might have contributed so much more to our society and it was all taken away in almost a flash.
Officer Moore's blood is on all of us who stand silently by and of course, on those who are intransigent about their "right to bear arms." You simply cannot have it both ways. You cannot scream about patriotism in one breath and support laws or the lack of laws that result in our public servants being mowed down.
And I suppose Mr. LaPierre and his minions at the NRA and on the right would insist that Demetrius Blackwell's apparent right to bear arms (without any seemingly common sense checks) outweighed young Officer Moore's RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND HAPPINESS. Shame on all Democratic and Republican politicians who are in the pockets of the gun lobby. What good does it do for one state to have tough gun violence prevention laws when residents of that state can get seemingly any and all guns from states with no restrictions?
People on both sides ask why our police are so militarized. Why does it seem many people are unaware that some part of that militarization might have to do with the virtually, free unfettered access to the most lethal and destructive of weapons to almost every citizen - criminal or mentally challenged? We are not going to allow you to manipulate us into silence by saying is "inappropriate to bring politics into such a time of tragedy."
This young officer might have contributed so much more to our society and it was all taken away in almost a flash.
Officer Moore's blood is on all of us who stand silently by and of course, on those who are intransigent about their "right to bear arms." You simply cannot have it both ways. You cannot scream about patriotism in one breath and support laws or the lack of laws that result in our public servants being mowed down.
95
"... I suppose Mr. LaPierre and his minions at the NRA and on the right would insist that Demetrius Blackwell's apparent right to bear arms..."
I doubt it.
Mr. Blackwell was a convicted felon. He had no right to keep or to bear arms, and it was illegal for him to buy, own, or carry one, under both Federal and local laws.
But facts never stand up well to rhetoric, do they?
I doubt it.
Mr. Blackwell was a convicted felon. He had no right to keep or to bear arms, and it was illegal for him to buy, own, or carry one, under both Federal and local laws.
But facts never stand up well to rhetoric, do they?
26
Their insistence that Americans need to keep/bear arms is a big reason why guns are so plentiful and easily accessible. If you are a convicted felon, an angry and emotionally confused bully, or even a child who has only seen a gun on TV, don't worry. There is probably a loaded gun nearby you, just in case you are concerned with YOUR right to be armed. Never mind about MY right to feel reasonably safe from my neighbors and those around me.
9
True. But it's relatively easy for convicted felons to arm themselves because, thanks to the NRA, we are awash in legal and illegal guns
This is a fact.
This is a fact.
4
So explain the relevance of the "looser gun control laws " in Some states with the fact that the guns were STOLEN? guns stolen by criminals who do not obey any laws
25
Oh yes, here we go with the old canard about bad guys with guns vs good guys with guns. Why was it so easy to steal the guns in Georgia? Guns in a roadside pawnshop? And that is not explanation enough? Maybe the gun thiefs realize that the "looser gun control laws" make it easier for them to steal the guns in a place like GA? If Ms. Little (the sister in law of the owner) realizes that "It's bad any way you look at it" then why can't you and people like you understand the same?
37
With over 300 million non-military firearms in the USA, you have more to worry about than a break-in to a roadside pawnshop.
And take it easy on GA. I feel safer here than in NYC.
And take it easy on GA. I feel safer here than in NYC.
7
jroberts36, you should not feel safer in Atlanta than you do in NYC. Atlanta has a homocide rate about 4 times greater than New York. Moreover, NYC is much safer than Atlanta in basically all types of crimes. I think that with so many police shows based in NYC, we tend to think of it as unsafe. That is not what the crime data says, however. The a South, which is home to both of us, actually is one of the less safe areas in the country.
37
When the police unions harness the lobbying power necessary for stricter gun sale regulations, then they'll be living up to their mission.
68
Yeah! That will happen with the likes of Scott Walker in the race for the WH and in charge of states.
13
Sorry, the police are opposed to gun control and favor concealed carry.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/28/police-oppose-gun-control-support-a...
Maybe you didn't glean the jist of the article that the gun was stolen, not sold?
Over the past 20 years roughly 40% of deadly shootings of police officers were committed by black citizens, who comprise roughly 13% of the population. That is similarly disproportionate to the often-mentioned stopping and searching of blacks by policemen and other statistics pointing to racial profiling, yet I have never seen it mentioned in the Times.
Which side is the chicken and which is the egg in this endlessly regenerating violence? I think both sides must shoulder blame, and the newspapers should discuss both sides more truthfully, i.e. they should address the reality of disproportionate black crime rates as they do racism and profiling by predominantly white police. Otherwise we only get half the picture.