Great to see that the last bastion of thoughtful, intelligent writing has joined all the other cheap, internet-driven excuses for a news source. Ms Macur has a real coup here, daring to write a timely and critical piece on Barry Bonds, of all people. And her deft use of sarcasm really cuts to the bone .. bravo. Way to make sure that this behemoth of corner-cutting doesn't sleep well at night. And the cracks about his torso and head size .. where do you come up with this stuff? I can breathe easier now knowing that the sanctity of our national pastime will always be guarded by soldiers of the pen such as yourself, Juliet. Thank you for stoking the flames of this news inferno that never grows old. Looking forward to your next hit piece on old ladies who fill out bible word-finder books in courts of law.
2
Barry Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time. This writer is very childish.
1
How dare that snidely Lance Armstrong survive testicular cancer.Serves him right to be stripped of the seven Tour titles he won outracing the other juiced bicycle boys.
All the news that fits, we print. Or, is it, all the news that's fit to print? I've forgotten which which one it is.
4
For anyone who claims ballplayers are supposed to be role models, grow up. Parents, teachers, older siblings, neighbors should be, or TRY to be role models.
Unless being a role model is in their contracts, and is DEFINED, they have no requirement to be a role model to anyone. It would be useful for their teams if they TRIED to be role model for younger players.
If you want a public figure to be a role model, demand that of politicians, especially since so many of them of late have been greedy, hateful, self-serving tools of corporations, especially baseball teams owned by billionaires who bleed taxpayers for the costs of their stadia.
Again, role models? Get a life!
Unless being a role model is in their contracts, and is DEFINED, they have no requirement to be a role model to anyone. It would be useful for their teams if they TRIED to be role model for younger players.
If you want a public figure to be a role model, demand that of politicians, especially since so many of them of late have been greedy, hateful, self-serving tools of corporations, especially baseball teams owned by billionaires who bleed taxpayers for the costs of their stadia.
Again, role models? Get a life!
2
What a mean-spirited article. What about the outrageous prosecution of obstruction of justice for giving a meandering answer to a question that he later answered?
I can understand a first year journalism student writing an article such as this. What I don’t understand is the New York Times publishing it.
I can understand a first year journalism student writing an article such as this. What I don’t understand is the New York Times publishing it.
3
I recognize that I begin with a biased view; that is, I find it tiresome watching pundits, writers, and others pile on about the steroid era abusers. I'd feel a little better about those criticisms of the players if the blame was also directed at the owners, managers, commissioner, fans and news media who turned blind-eyes and cheered on the superhuman long ball era knowing players were juicing.
I find this article's sarcastic tone offensive and unworthy of the NY Times. It is almost as offensive as the terrific waste of taxpayer dollars that could have been better spent on so many other things.
I find this article's sarcastic tone offensive and unworthy of the NY Times. It is almost as offensive as the terrific waste of taxpayer dollars that could have been better spent on so many other things.
6
Ms. Macur seems not to grasp that this was a legal decision. One is glad she does not write or apply the laws. People she detests would be in jail simply because she detests them.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/24/someone-sure-as-heck-didnt-...
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/24/someone-sure-as-heck-didnt-...
3
I don't care about baseball or Barry Bonds, but I do care about the demise of quality writing, and, with all due respect, this is just awful. Full of cheap puerile sarcasm, which is very different from wit. I would have hoped the NY Times editors would hold their writers to a higher standard.
6
Yessss Barry should be convicted because he is a bad person. He lied, he had shrunken testicles, he had bought breast implants for his mistress, and the acne on your back. How horrible. Yet the prosecutors could not lay a single conviction on him after the millions they spent. One obstruction of justice charge that was thrown out. What does that tell you? Our justice system must be corrupt. How come the prosecutors didn't go after Roger Clemens or Alex Rodriguez with such fervor and so much manpower and money over so many years? Or is it that Barry is black?
2
Recent comments (at 122 now) have improved my faith in humanity, as they cast in perspective this entire issue of baseball and steroids, more worthy of supermarket checkout stand tabloids than the New York Times, let alone a U.S. Department of Justice so drained of resources through its persecution of Barry Bonds, that it seems not to have the resources to prosecute financial cheaters.
As to Juliet Macur and her editor: perhaps one should have her pee into a cup to see if she took a bunch of speed to meet deadline for this alleged article. Its whiney incoherence certainly seems to indicate the use of drugs. Certainly the Times would not put on staff someone who was normally so incompetent, let alone ignorant of the subject written about.
As to Juliet Macur and her editor: perhaps one should have her pee into a cup to see if she took a bunch of speed to meet deadline for this alleged article. Its whiney incoherence certainly seems to indicate the use of drugs. Certainly the Times would not put on staff someone who was normally so incompetent, let alone ignorant of the subject written about.
6
It's simple. Hank Aaron is still the real home run king.
1
He is not though because his record was broken....
1
This snide column is a cheap shot not worthy of a Times staff writer. I find it ignorant, mean-spirited, and oblivious to both our justice system and baseball, the two subjects under which, I expect, Juliet Macur and the Times might classify this piece.
Totally separate is the issue of steroid use in baseball. When Macur takes a drug test each time she writes a column, I might take her seriously, when she comments about Barry Bonds, baseball, or steroids. When Members of Congress take drug tests before sending us to war, gutting health regulations, and handing out corporate tax breaks, I may find the use of drugs by baseball players and other entertainers relevant.
In reply to John Sullivan who lays out the awesome accomplishments of what Bonds did on the field: absolutely right on, and I say that as an A's fan, not as a Giants fan. If steroids were all there is to it, a hundred players would have the Bonds stats you cite.
I still have a fantasy that Bonds calls a news conference and says, "If it weren't for all those pitchers on steroids, I would have hit a hundred home runs."
I would suggest that all those Commenters who are outraged and indignant about "cheating" and alleged "cheating" in baseball save their energy for the cheating by Members of Congress, an arena where it actually matters.
Ball players are entertainers. Do you get equally outraged if some movie star gets an Oscar winning part because he or she is willing to go to bed with the casting director?
Totally separate is the issue of steroid use in baseball. When Macur takes a drug test each time she writes a column, I might take her seriously, when she comments about Barry Bonds, baseball, or steroids. When Members of Congress take drug tests before sending us to war, gutting health regulations, and handing out corporate tax breaks, I may find the use of drugs by baseball players and other entertainers relevant.
In reply to John Sullivan who lays out the awesome accomplishments of what Bonds did on the field: absolutely right on, and I say that as an A's fan, not as a Giants fan. If steroids were all there is to it, a hundred players would have the Bonds stats you cite.
I still have a fantasy that Bonds calls a news conference and says, "If it weren't for all those pitchers on steroids, I would have hit a hundred home runs."
I would suggest that all those Commenters who are outraged and indignant about "cheating" and alleged "cheating" in baseball save their energy for the cheating by Members of Congress, an arena where it actually matters.
Ball players are entertainers. Do you get equally outraged if some movie star gets an Oscar winning part because he or she is willing to go to bed with the casting director?
6
so tired of these holier than thou writers. bonds was probably the best baseball player in the game to date. mark, sammy and barry saved baseball, "chicks dig the long ball" remember. find something else to quake about.
2
This ranks as my favorite sports column - no favorite editorial -- of all time. perfect tone. and really aren't we all complicit. you know, us baseball fans are really very outcome oriented. the less we know about our athletes the better. anything less impressive than a retired athlete staying in the spotlight too long? barry and sammy and mark were very fun for baseball and it is our shame too that we ditch these guys after we learn the truth. aren't we really just annoyed that they spoiled our fun by getting caught? corked bat? really sammy? wasn't the steroids enough?
He wasn't a very friendly guy. He most likely used PED's. So, that makes it OK that the Federal government wasted tremendous resources and cost the guy millions on a ridiculous prosecution.
Got it. Makes sense to me.
Got it. Makes sense to me.
4
Barry may be a pretty unpleasant character...but that doesn't give federal prosecutors a pass. Did he juice? Of course. Did he perjur himself? He did not. And it shouldn't have taken all this time and effort to prove it. Just ask Greg Anderson.
1
As Goose Gossage said "I didn't know you had to be a choirboy to play in the Big Leagues." Sure Bonds took steroids - but any athlete or weight lifter will tell you - at some point - most consider it (consider - not actually engage). But he hit a lot of home runs as a skinny kid on the Pirates; he studied pitchers; he took extra batting practice; he had a great eye at the plate; and he guessed right on a lot of pitchers (he studied them too). Steroids don't increase bat speed...and Bonds was not a lazy.
1
And a thank you to Mr. Bonds, Mr. Sosa and Mr. McGwire for turning me and other baseball fans away from the game.
We were never fooled by you: in the history of baseball, no players get better with age, but you guys changed all that.
You changed the game completely so much so that you turned away fans like myself, and I don't miss this tainted game.
We were never fooled by you: in the history of baseball, no players get better with age, but you guys changed all that.
You changed the game completely so much so that you turned away fans like myself, and I don't miss this tainted game.
1
I think everyone here needs a refresher course in what the various outcomes of a criminal trial actually mean:
A verdict of guilty does not mean the person accused committed the crime. All it means is that the prosecutors proved beyond a reasonable doubt that s/he did (or that the jury had its mind made up in advance regardless of what the evidence actually showed).
A verdict of not guilty does not mean the person accused did not commit the crime. All it means is that the prosecution couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that s/he did (with the same proviso shown in the parenthetical clause above).
So what happened here? Hard to say. But it looks to me as though the powers-that-be wanted *someone* to pay for all the steroid abuse...and Bonds, for better, worse, or otherwise just happened to be the first person available. Personal opinions of the man (both on the field and off) notwithstanding, this may not have been the best way to go about it.
Not to mention, there *is* a sort of Claude Rains-in-CASABLANCA air ("I'm shocked...SHOCKED!...that such things would be going on here") about the whole thing. I'd say let's put it behind us and move on...but we can't really.
This also explains in part why I haven't seen a MLB game in person since 2006.
A verdict of guilty does not mean the person accused committed the crime. All it means is that the prosecutors proved beyond a reasonable doubt that s/he did (or that the jury had its mind made up in advance regardless of what the evidence actually showed).
A verdict of not guilty does not mean the person accused did not commit the crime. All it means is that the prosecution couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that s/he did (with the same proviso shown in the parenthetical clause above).
So what happened here? Hard to say. But it looks to me as though the powers-that-be wanted *someone* to pay for all the steroid abuse...and Bonds, for better, worse, or otherwise just happened to be the first person available. Personal opinions of the man (both on the field and off) notwithstanding, this may not have been the best way to go about it.
Not to mention, there *is* a sort of Claude Rains-in-CASABLANCA air ("I'm shocked...SHOCKED!...that such things would be going on here") about the whole thing. I'd say let's put it behind us and move on...but we can't really.
This also explains in part why I haven't seen a MLB game in person since 2006.
1
Barry Bonds got his just deserts, irrelevance. He could have been remembered as one of the all time greats. Instead he was overrun with jealousy and turned to drugs. Left coast Bonds apologists can turn a blind eye to the obvious and keep defending this loser. Nice job Juliet.
1
Your bias blinds you. He is and will increasingly be remembered as being one of the all time greats. Bonds was amazing.
1
After flipping off Andy Van Slyke, who tried to get Bonds positioned properly, Bonds couldn't even throw out Sid Bream.
Bonds, much like his father, was clubhouse poison with the Giants.
Bonds won nothing but individual awards in a team sport.
And he did it all with a snarl.
What's not to like?
Bonds, much like his father, was clubhouse poison with the Giants.
Bonds won nothing but individual awards in a team sport.
And he did it all with a snarl.
What's not to like?
3
I thought I was reading a snark fan blog, not the New York Times. Unlike so many other ballplayers, Bonds has (now) been convicted of nothing having to do with drug use, or talking about drug use. He was never suspended from baseball. Underneath her sarcasm seems to be a belief that Bonds deserves continued scorn because he is an unlikeable man. Well, in sports, that's a very long list. And continuing this snark campaign after the courts have ruled, when comparable attacks have not been waged against peers like Mark McGuire, seems to suggest some other motive.
12
Ditto. Exactly my thoughts. I found the tone of this article offensive. Well said.
(1) Barry Bonds never tested positive for steroids.
(2) Taking steroids does not make one a better hitter. Having flawless technique and a sound batting eye does. People who have no experience playing baseball never seem to understand this.
(3) No one was complaining about Bonds or Big Mac or Sammy or Jose Canseco while they were being thrilled by their towering moonshots.
Stop whining.
(2) Taking steroids does not make one a better hitter. Having flawless technique and a sound batting eye does. People who have no experience playing baseball never seem to understand this.
(3) No one was complaining about Bonds or Big Mac or Sammy or Jose Canseco while they were being thrilled by their towering moonshots.
Stop whining.
12
What if you already have flawless technique and sound batting eye? Would steroids help you at that point? Lol. Such a phone argument you put forth. Perhaps that extra strength turned so many fly ball outs into home runs. I'm sure it was a coincidence that Bonds, McGuire and Sosa all shattered a 40 year old home run record in a very short period of time.
I beg to differ. Hand-eye coordination allows one to make contact with the ball. Steroids allows you to hit out of the park. The stats of Maguire, Bonds, Sosa, Canseco and others proves that. It is not rocket science. Stop rationalizing.
1
I wonder if everyone who thinks that Barry Bonds is History's Greatest Monster also thinks that MLB and Peter Magowan should give back all of the profits he made because Bonds put butts in seats. What about MLB, which raked in money during the "Steroid Era" because "chicks dig the long ball"? Selig saw nothing and everyone looked the other way because the proliferation of dingers was Good For the Game until it wasn't. LaRussa had no idea that Canseco and McGwire were injecting themselves in the clubhouse, and everyone applauds and votes him into the Hall, blames the players and lets everyone else who benefited skate.
8
Despite Juliet Macur's hysterical sarcasm--the last resort of an inept writer--the government does owe Barry Bonds, and all taxpayers. an apology for its vindictive and meritless attempt to put Barry Bonds in jail because some ambitious, unpricipled Federal Procecutor was looking to put a trophy on his wall. While killer cops and Wall Street fraudstrers can walk the streets free of any worry that will ever be called to acount, ther's something obscene about a glory-seeking prosecutor throwing away nearly $100 million dollars out of sheer spite
15
And don't forget a vindictive former IRS agent--Jeff Novitzky--who doggedly went after Bonds because he suffered some slight. That start colored the entire case.
2
Bonds was not convicted but he was (is) a lying, cheating hypocrite. It seems to me some prosecutions are worth the effort when a liar thumbs his nose at the judicial system, baseball and the fans.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but even the full weight of the federal government couldn’t prove that what you say is true. Considering all the real problems the country has, spending the alleged $50 million to make an example of an entertainer is perverse and obscene.
Where is the Justice Department’s zeal in prosecuting the financial institutions that behaved recklessly, nearly bringing down the entire financial system, and then received bailouts from the government? Our government’s priorities are way out of line.
Where is the Justice Department’s zeal in prosecuting the financial institutions that behaved recklessly, nearly bringing down the entire financial system, and then received bailouts from the government? Our government’s priorities are way out of line.
I've never quite understood this sanctimonious obsession to the "purity" of the game. Should we go back and look at the records of players that never had to face some of the best competition of their era because of racial segregation?
Get over it folks. This is a game. It's not the Vatican Council and the future of 1.5 Christians wont change regardless of what the court said in the Barry Bonds case. World peace wont be affected and global warming wont diminish. All that will happen is that a few people in a sports bar with nothing better to do will argue about what might have, would have, could have happened if Barry Bonds hadn't used drugs.
Even the court didn't say that he was innocent of drug use. They simply held that because of irregularities in the trail his due process rights were violated. And guess what, he's got as much to those rights as you or I do.
So Barry used drugs, people will put an asterisk next to his records and life will go on. And we should go on and forget about this non-story.
PS. Dear Juliet, Sorry your hero image was shattered, but Mother Theresa would have been a far better choice anyway.
Get over it folks. This is a game. It's not the Vatican Council and the future of 1.5 Christians wont change regardless of what the court said in the Barry Bonds case. World peace wont be affected and global warming wont diminish. All that will happen is that a few people in a sports bar with nothing better to do will argue about what might have, would have, could have happened if Barry Bonds hadn't used drugs.
Even the court didn't say that he was innocent of drug use. They simply held that because of irregularities in the trail his due process rights were violated. And guess what, he's got as much to those rights as you or I do.
So Barry used drugs, people will put an asterisk next to his records and life will go on. And we should go on and forget about this non-story.
PS. Dear Juliet, Sorry your hero image was shattered, but Mother Theresa would have been a far better choice anyway.
1
Actually, Mother Theresa is a lousy choice.
And I strongly suggest you all read Dave Zirin:http://www.thenation.com/blog/205201/now-justice-department-has-struck-o...
And I strongly suggest you all read Dave Zirin:http://www.thenation.com/blog/205201/now-justice-department-has-struck-o...
Exactly. The history of this game includes racial segregation, corked bats, sand-papered balls, spitballs, vaseline, amphetamines, cocaine, sign-stealing .. just about anything you can think of to gain unfair advantage. Yet it's still held in this false sanctimonious regard, as though it were the last morsel of purity on the American landscape. Bonds is the poster boy for an entire generation and league of steroid users. Andy why? Because he was the best of his era and not the most likable character. Ty Cobb anyone?
Lots of people juiced back then. How many were as good as Bonds? Regardless of steroids or whatever he was an incredible talent and the game would benefit from bringing him back into the fold. So he had a big neck, I don't care.
2
Juliet, am I reading this correctly, we do not care about abuse by federal prosecutors just because you do not like Barry Bonds? There is something much more important than baseball here.
8
oh c'mon. Don't be a hater. Baseball is entertainment and Barry was The King. Get over your nostalgic pining for the purity of the game.
2
Did it occur to you that for better or for worse baseball players are supposed to be role models for our youth? It's not all and only about money
Ary Kempler
Ary Kempler
So, Barry Bonds is nobody's idea of a sympathetic character. But what is your point with this article? Are you seriously arguing that the Government did a public service by spending millions of taxpayers to bring Barry Bonds to justice for injecting himself with drugs that made him better at his job as an athlete and entertainer? Let's think about some of the problems they may have tackled instead. Iraq, Afghanistan, an economic collapse, corruption by U.S Military contractors, ponzi schemes, virtually any crime that affects the lives of ordinary Americans.
I'll tell you a brief story. I'm a military veteran that got taken, along with a bunch of other military veterans, for a lot of my savings by a crooked portfolio manager that betrayed us and robbed us blind. Do you think the Government spent 1/10 the effort to bring our thief to justice? They couldn't have cared less. Why? Because there was nothing in it for them. We weren't high profile enough. It was only when we created a letter writing campaign to embarrass the FBI that they actually did something, We basically had to do a lot of our own investigating and rounding up of witnesses. It was a joke.
Barry Bonds never took anything from me. He never harmed me in anyway. Did he harm himself? The science is very inconclusive (but that's another topic all together). Did he harm the game? Doubtful. The game was hugely popular in his time. A lot of people got rich. His prosecution was a waste of time, money and effor
I'll tell you a brief story. I'm a military veteran that got taken, along with a bunch of other military veterans, for a lot of my savings by a crooked portfolio manager that betrayed us and robbed us blind. Do you think the Government spent 1/10 the effort to bring our thief to justice? They couldn't have cared less. Why? Because there was nothing in it for them. We weren't high profile enough. It was only when we created a letter writing campaign to embarrass the FBI that they actually did something, We basically had to do a lot of our own investigating and rounding up of witnesses. It was a joke.
Barry Bonds never took anything from me. He never harmed me in anyway. Did he harm himself? The science is very inconclusive (but that's another topic all together). Did he harm the game? Doubtful. The game was hugely popular in his time. A lot of people got rich. His prosecution was a waste of time, money and effor
13
Why does everybody reduce things to taxpayer dollars? Your comment is full of poor me and self pity. I can understand your frustration. But Bush wasted a gazillion of taxpayer dollars taking America into Iraq.
Did Bonds do damage to his body with steroids - of course he did. The science is inconclusive - not by a long shot. Go to USADA's website and read and educate yourself about the scientific and medical effects of PEDs.
Did Bonds do damage to his body with steroids - of course he did. The science is inconclusive - not by a long shot. Go to USADA's website and read and educate yourself about the scientific and medical effects of PEDs.
This is a disgusting article. You realize that he was convicted of a felony right? For something he didnt do? Its one thing to hate him, its one thing to think he was a cheater, thats all fine. It makes you a disgusting person if you are happy that someone you personally dislike is convicted in court of a FELONY for giving a sort of weird answer to a question, then clarifying explicitly your response when asked 30 seconds later to do so. In 5 hours of testimony. That you think its just "no big deal" that he was a convicted felon for years because hey, I mean he's got lots of money and cars, so who cares right?
Realize that you are also an outrageously privileged person who is fabulously wealthy, and you probably have people in your life who think you lie, who think you cheat, and who think you don't deserve the success you have. Now imagine being a convicted felon for something that you didn't do. Imagine how that would feel.
Then write another condescending article.
Its amazing to have so little self-awareness.
Realize that you are also an outrageously privileged person who is fabulously wealthy, and you probably have people in your life who think you lie, who think you cheat, and who think you don't deserve the success you have. Now imagine being a convicted felon for something that you didn't do. Imagine how that would feel.
Then write another condescending article.
Its amazing to have so little self-awareness.
8
Baseball's message is to do whatever you must to get what you want and never admit anything, even the obvious. Truth kills.
Now we can jeer Alex and cheer Barry. On to Cooperstown and the Hall of Fraud (Pete Rose where are you?). Don't forget to bring the kids.
Now we can jeer Alex and cheer Barry. On to Cooperstown and the Hall of Fraud (Pete Rose where are you?). Don't forget to bring the kids.
1
The "justice" system threw away millions of dollars on persecuting Bonds and can't even keep track of how many people are killed by cops while hundreds die.
Love me some Barry Bonds, and this opinion piece has all the trimmings of 12 year old writer. Wow. Seriously?
Barry Bonds - congratulations! I look forward to your rightful induction into the Hall of Fame.
Barry Bonds - congratulations! I look forward to your rightful induction into the Hall of Fame.
5
Anyone should be allowed to take steroids, and M.L.B. should be able to employ and enshrine any of these cartoonish figures.
What I take issue with are:
1. Writers, etc. calling M.L.B. "baseball", as if without that BUSINESS, there would be no baseball.
2. Municipalities giving my tax dollars to M.L.B. franchises.
I love baseball. I stopped watching M.L.B. long ago. I watch amateurs, in person. The lower skill level is completely irrelevant to being a fan and enjoying the game. And you don't have to endure the incessant commercialism, or whatever tacky sideshow is there to get in the way.
What I take issue with are:
1. Writers, etc. calling M.L.B. "baseball", as if without that BUSINESS, there would be no baseball.
2. Municipalities giving my tax dollars to M.L.B. franchises.
I love baseball. I stopped watching M.L.B. long ago. I watch amateurs, in person. The lower skill level is completely irrelevant to being a fan and enjoying the game. And you don't have to endure the incessant commercialism, or whatever tacky sideshow is there to get in the way.
2
Oh Juliet, could it be possible that you are being sarcastic? Just wondering!
1
Every time the Times publishes one of its scolding articles about Bonds or McGwire or Rodriguez or whoever, I yearn to travel back in time to the days when the Times was boosting these players, these teams, those stats. Yes, indeed, Barry's body turned into "something like the Michelin Man" -- I could see it, and I wasn't anywhere near the locker room. But the fairy tale of the Golden Age of the home run hitter was too much for the press to speculate about then, when it was happening. Now, with hindsight, the Times, the paper that practically declared national holidays when Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, and Jason Giambi joined the Yankees, is scolding, scolding, scolding. Funny -- if I could see that those guys were juiced, sitting on my couch, what was it you guys saw in the locker room? And why didn't you talk about it then?
3
Humans can only know what they know but nothing more. In this case you cannot know what Mr. Barry Bonds did or did not do except his willingness to subject himself to exhaustive due process and prevail. So, your implications might hopefully go up in smoke just like the disgusting illusion you're trying to create.
He won this case and by all rules and means of society is innocent (except bias and racism). So, I suggest to you Ms. Juliet Macur, that you are inherently flawed trying to punish outside the norms of society and reason. Witch hunting proved a flawed method of social justice and good order.
He won this case and by all rules and means of society is innocent (except bias and racism). So, I suggest to you Ms. Juliet Macur, that you are inherently flawed trying to punish outside the norms of society and reason. Witch hunting proved a flawed method of social justice and good order.
4
Barry Bonds is a cheater and every baseball fan saw it and knows it, period, full stop, end of conversation.
5
Only Barry Bonds could make me think that Pete Rose may indeed be deserving of the HOF despite his gambling.
1
Bond is a jerk. So is the writer of this article. Is this the NY Times or Mad magazine?
2
So let's throw all the shame of sports all on the players, right? Bud Selig didn't profit from it? MLB didn't profit from it? The fans didn't love it? Barry Bonds and players who did PEDs are far from innocent but it's all too easy to throw all the blame on them for the PEDs era. How much richer did Attorney Selig get from reviving baseball with Sosa, Bonds, McGwire juicing, only to turn around later and become the Grand Inquisitor? And the hall of fame? What about all the racist thugs who were inducted in past years? Is that OK too?
I think it's easy to cast blame on the players. They are the easiest targets in a problem where many in power profited immensely. Why not mention the others in your article Ms Macur?
I think it's easy to cast blame on the players. They are the easiest targets in a problem where many in power profited immensely. Why not mention the others in your article Ms Macur?
2
So now, officially, only A-Rod did steroids? Shoeless Joe should have appealed to the Ninth Circuit.
2
I would suggest that all those Commenters who are outraged and indignant about "cheating" and alleged "cheating" in baseball save their energy for the cheating by Members of Congress, an arena where it actually matters.
Ball players are entertainers. Do you get equally outraged if some star gets an Oscar winning part because he or she is willing to go to bed with the casting director?
Ball players are entertainers. Do you get equally outraged if some star gets an Oscar winning part because he or she is willing to go to bed with the casting director?
1
Exactly. And when a movie actor gets a face lift to look younger, do we accuse him of "cheating"? Hey, buddy, you're not really that young, you're cheating!
Baseball is entertainment. Let me tell you, the Oakland A's were hugely entertaining in the late '80s-early 90s. They were all huge, fast, and they could hit the hell out of the ball. So much fun, worth every penny of my entertainment dollar.
It was so obvious they were doing something to their bodies, but MLB wasn't doing anything about it, so obviously it was OK. Right?
Baseball is entertainment. Let me tell you, the Oakland A's were hugely entertaining in the late '80s-early 90s. They were all huge, fast, and they could hit the hell out of the ball. So much fun, worth every penny of my entertainment dollar.
It was so obvious they were doing something to their bodies, but MLB wasn't doing anything about it, so obviously it was OK. Right?
This snide column is a cheap shot not worthy of an Op-Ed from an outsider, let alone from a Times staff writer. I find it ignorant, venal, mean-spirited, and oblivious to both our justice system and baseball, the two subjects under which, I expect, Juliet Macur and the Times might classify this piece.
Totally separate is the issue of steroid use in baseball. When Macur takes a drug test each time she writes a column, I might take her seriously, when she comments about Barry Bonds, baseball, or steroids. When Members of Congress take drug tests before sending us to war, gutting health regulations, and handing out corporate tax breaks, I may have the bandwidth to care about the use of drugs by baseball players and other entertainers.
Totally separate is the issue of steroid use in baseball. When Macur takes a drug test each time she writes a column, I might take her seriously, when she comments about Barry Bonds, baseball, or steroids. When Members of Congress take drug tests before sending us to war, gutting health regulations, and handing out corporate tax breaks, I may have the bandwidth to care about the use of drugs by baseball players and other entertainers.
5
Why is the home run record still listed in Bond's name? He cheated. The world knows it. He is not going into the HOF. So why is his record still on the books? It stains the record books. A travesty we had to endure that ruined the integrity of the game. So why hasn't anything been done about it?
1
That record is still in the books because Barry actually hit each one of those homers.
If you're going to eliminate the statistics that may have resulted from PEDs, then you have to eliminate the statistics that resulted from lasik, Tommy John surgery, etc. None of that is "natural." Tommy John played for 18 years after he had his arm repaired. Are you saying that none of that counts?
What's the difference between surgical procedures and steroids? Why is one acceptable and the other not? Why should it not all be acceptable? After all, baseball is not religion; it's entertainment.
If you're going to eliminate the statistics that may have resulted from PEDs, then you have to eliminate the statistics that resulted from lasik, Tommy John surgery, etc. None of that is "natural." Tommy John played for 18 years after he had his arm repaired. Are you saying that none of that counts?
What's the difference between surgical procedures and steroids? Why is one acceptable and the other not? Why should it not all be acceptable? After all, baseball is not religion; it's entertainment.
Baseball attendance was in the 50 million range for much of the 1990's and total home runs in both leagues averaged in the 3,000 range. Things started trending up in 1996. A little over 4,000 total home runs for 1995 to nearly 5,000 in 1996. Attendance jumped from 50 Million in 1995 to 60 million in 1996, 62 Million in 1997 and in 1998 when Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa made their run at the Maris record, attendance topped 70 Million and over 5,000 home runs in MLB. For more than a decade following 70 Million and 5,000 became the norm. You can talk about the complicity as cheaters, but you cannot then ignore the sales revenue at the gates. It's time the fans, the owners, trainers and sports writers own up as well.
2
So much righteousness, so little cause. I suppose you all support the war on drugs in general, too. Freedom means not having someone else telling you what you can do with your own self, including what chemicals you use. Do you want to ban Tommy John surgery, too? You know they use drugs in the surgery, and think of all the false records that result. Keeping Bonds and Rose out of the H of F diminishes the Hall. Who are the real cheaters: the folks who jump on a popular bandwagon and pretend they are having original thoughts worth sharing with the world.
1
It must feel good to pile on. Sports commentators live for it. The real question is not Bonds spending coin to defend himself, it is the millions in taxpayer money publicity-hungry federal prosecutors wasted to "make a point". Save your outrage for those abusing their public sector positions for personal agendas. I am not defending Bonds, but this whole exercise was a joke and I'm glad the appeals court saw it for what it was.
2
How bitter a person do you have to be to write such an article. None of the physical changes the writer mentions is proof of steroid use. She also fails to mention that steroids weren't banned by MLB until 2003. The motivation for Bonds alleged use, was his desire to hit home runs. Then why did he allow himself to be walked so much, that he is now the all-time leader in that category? Why didn't his much maligned throwing arm get better? We all should be scared by the unanimity sports writers are convinced that Bonds used steroids at a time they were banned, and that they helped him hit pitches of varying speeds and curvatures; pitches he didn't know were coming. I don't see a link between strength and hitting a baseball.
3
I don't like the tone of this article. It's time to put baseball's steroid age blame game behind us. Until baseball writers acknowledge the equal complicity of the game's front office and its owners in their home run bash for cash derby that bloated box office receipts for so many years, it's time to lay off the Barry Bonds' of the era.
As many baseball experts have said, steroids don't improve hand-eye coordination and timing at the plate. Barry Bonds provided enjoyment to millions, me among them, with his superb skill at the plate.
I think it's time to admit that the game's hierarchy, with it's supreme profit motives, are no less guilty than PED users who were silently pressured into using whatever means possible to hit the long ball and fill ball parks. Somehow, rich owners and executives never have to take the heat.
As many baseball experts have said, steroids don't improve hand-eye coordination and timing at the plate. Barry Bonds provided enjoyment to millions, me among them, with his superb skill at the plate.
I think it's time to admit that the game's hierarchy, with it's supreme profit motives, are no less guilty than PED users who were silently pressured into using whatever means possible to hit the long ball and fill ball parks. Somehow, rich owners and executives never have to take the heat.
3
So a court of law is now what you go along with .We should go along with whatever you say and heard. So Judge Jury and Writer who made you above the law?
1
The elegance of baseball lived with Bonds throughout the sleaze attacks some of them couched in sarcasm of which this piece of "work" is one.
Barry's bat speed was akin to Williams from the left side of the plate and his pure competitive stamina produced balls which simply were ejected from the ballparks of our country.
I watched him, stood next to him and like a wide eyed kid at 55 years old with jaw dropped.Even the NY Times called him " the most ferocious at the plate" inspiring awe and fear.
If shame were in fashion, this bleached column would be a disgrace. Instead it's just another go at a baseball legend....a dirty ball attack towards a man who played to win; and did so with aplomb and dignity. Go Barry.
God speed to the HOF.
Barry's bat speed was akin to Williams from the left side of the plate and his pure competitive stamina produced balls which simply were ejected from the ballparks of our country.
I watched him, stood next to him and like a wide eyed kid at 55 years old with jaw dropped.Even the NY Times called him " the most ferocious at the plate" inspiring awe and fear.
If shame were in fashion, this bleached column would be a disgrace. Instead it's just another go at a baseball legend....a dirty ball attack towards a man who played to win; and did so with aplomb and dignity. Go Barry.
God speed to the HOF.
4
Barry Lamar Bonds was headed to the MLB Hall of Fame long before Sosa, McGuire, Giambi, Palmeiro, etc tried to PED their way to the Hall of Shame. I was, am and will always be a Bonds fan. I wish that this stench was not there. But my admiration for Ken Griffey and Frank Thomas has grown.
It is really hard to hit a baseball. Failing to get a hit 70% of the time can get you a MVP and in to the HOF. Bonds, ARod and Junior were the best all around position players of their era.
It is really hard to hit a baseball. Failing to get a hit 70% of the time can get you a MVP and in to the HOF. Bonds, ARod and Junior were the best all around position players of their era.
plus Jeter.
I am disappointed by this article. It did not shed any light on the Bonds case - to me he did the right thing to fight his conviction. The DOJ overreached and should not have prosecuted him at all. They did not have the proof that he lied to the Grand Jury. I think they prosecuted him simply because the public (outside of SF) did / do not like him. Why didn't they like him? Because he was not the friendly guy in the clubhouse. He was "uppity" and did not tow the line. If he was a pleasnat guy to be around - he would have been granted the same benefit of the doubt as McGwire and Clemens (until the truth came out). Let's not forget that his Grand Jury testimony was leaked - and there was no prosecution for that.
4
Barry was never caught breaking the rules. In baseball, that's the bar you have to clear. It's a pretty low bar, but if you clear it, you're good. Just ask Gaylord Perry! Bonds is a Hall-of-Famer.
Oh my, he may have sought an advantage in such a pure unsullied sport. Please, spare us the sanctimony. Spare us the fantasy and the illusion that all those players who came before him were driven by a love of the game and strength of character and never sought illicit advantage in their racially segregated game. This is nothing but blaming the driver for going 60 mph in a 55 mph zone in which 1 day the police decide the letter of the law must be enforced. MLB tacitly condoned the use of PEDs having almost ruined the sport when the post season was cancelled by a strike and then once the league had righted itself with attendance and TV contract money it was shocked to find out there had been cheating. Bonds behavior is entirely understandable given the circumstances in which he played. The guy is 1st ballot HOF and if he isn't then maybe we should take a good long look at the character and performance of a host of players in the HOF prior to integration.
What an odd, anachronistic article. This man's legacy takes care of itself. He's flawed and tragic and ruined incredible abilities and squandered hard work out of ego and vanity. And he was also exonerated from this conviction. What's more to say?
I understand that the Baseball Record Book says for HRs:
Single season: Bonds 73
Lifetime: Bonds 762
OK.
My record book says:
Single Season: Roger Maris 61
Lifetime: Henry Aaron 65
I will also give an honorable mention to:
Willie Mays 660 Served 2 years 1952-53. Plus he played so many years at Candlestick. Might have passed Aaron but for these facts.
Ted Williams 521 Home runs. 4 years in military service (WWII and Korea)
Bob Feller 4 years 1942 -1945 in the military serving on ships in the northern Atlantic. Probably cost him 300 wins and 3000 strikeouts.
Compared to the players Bond and McGwire are just losers.
Single season: Bonds 73
Lifetime: Bonds 762
OK.
My record book says:
Single Season: Roger Maris 61
Lifetime: Henry Aaron 65
I will also give an honorable mention to:
Willie Mays 660 Served 2 years 1952-53. Plus he played so many years at Candlestick. Might have passed Aaron but for these facts.
Ted Williams 521 Home runs. 4 years in military service (WWII and Korea)
Bob Feller 4 years 1942 -1945 in the military serving on ships in the northern Atlantic. Probably cost him 300 wins and 3000 strikeouts.
Compared to the players Bond and McGwire are just losers.
As a San Franciscan, long time baseball fan, and NY Times subscriber, I find this article offensive on many levels. It is an affront to journalism that is not worthy of the New York Times.
5
I hope Juliet Macur coverts some of her fake awe to real awe for the fact that Bonds was the most feared hitter in baseball for several years, with over 2X as many career intentional walk as the hitter in second place (Hank Aaron). And he is the career leader in all walks, ahead of Rickey Henderson and Babe Ruth. He had nine years with 120 or more walks, with an astonishing 232 walks in 2004.
2
I like to see this as a victory for men in America who use or have used anabolic steroids- estimated to be over 10 million. Barry has paid his dues, that's for sure. Time to leave him alone. As the first physician in America to openly care for men suffering from anabolic steroid use, this is a liberation.
Forget big Barry, I would assume that his health is not compromised from any use of said "anabolic agents"- not so is the fortune for average Joe I see in my clinic in CT- these guys, who just likes to lift weights in the basement or get "jacked" for the summer suffer with at least anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism. Heart disease and prostate disease too.
So Hurrah for this day of justice!!! Its OK guys.... please go see your doctor... don't feel ashamed for what you have done if your one of the millions of men using anabolic steroids- I understand why you use them!! but I don't want you to get hurt or suffer... I promise you wont have to go through what Barry did... come on in, the Doctor will see you NOW!
www.metabolicdoc.com
Stay strong and healthy,
Dr O
Forget big Barry, I would assume that his health is not compromised from any use of said "anabolic agents"- not so is the fortune for average Joe I see in my clinic in CT- these guys, who just likes to lift weights in the basement or get "jacked" for the summer suffer with at least anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism. Heart disease and prostate disease too.
So Hurrah for this day of justice!!! Its OK guys.... please go see your doctor... don't feel ashamed for what you have done if your one of the millions of men using anabolic steroids- I understand why you use them!! but I don't want you to get hurt or suffer... I promise you wont have to go through what Barry did... come on in, the Doctor will see you NOW!
www.metabolicdoc.com
Stay strong and healthy,
Dr O
I think Barry Bonds's head deserves a prize all its own. Just look at the pictures from when he was juicing and making records - his head was huge, clearly a record-setter. I'm not talking metaphorically, either. The swelling of his skull is the surest evidence if any were needed of the dangers of steroid abuse.
1
The people who get it the worst in eternity are those who try to distort the truth, try to make wrong seem right, take away from others, and don't admit their wrongdoings. By the way, this ten year federal investigation solely investigating bonds has effectively proven that absolutely no evidence exists concerning bonds and steroids, and has verified him clean 24/7 during 2002-2004 when he put up the top 3 offensive seasons in MLBhistory in terms of OPS (average total bases per at bat). Oh, and babe ruth openly took any PED he could get his hands on such as sheep testosterone and was caught on many occasions using corked bats. Oh, and baseball celebrated mark mcgwire just four years before bonds, even as mcgwire openly documented his PED and andro usage.
2
In 1998, when androstenedione was found in Mark McGwire's locker no one seemed to care. Androstenedione is a precursor of testosterone banned by every other sport because it is a steroid. This whole sorry sad mess could have been squashed right then. Apparently we were all too happy to watch homeruns.
Barry Bonds is a mean overinflated clown. He did not accomplish what he did fairly and then lied about it. He deserved to remain a convicted felon, but if he's had his day in court and been exonerated so be it. The disgrace of his era is everyone's fault not his alone.
I hope he, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, and the rest of them remain excluded from baseball. They are a stain on the game.
Barry Bonds is a mean overinflated clown. He did not accomplish what he did fairly and then lied about it. He deserved to remain a convicted felon, but if he's had his day in court and been exonerated so be it. The disgrace of his era is everyone's fault not his alone.
I hope he, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, and the rest of them remain excluded from baseball. They are a stain on the game.
3
All that's missing from this article is: saying "na-na-nah-na-na." Bonds as subject matter is no longer relevant. Want to thumb your nose at him, ignore him. His story is done. Childish rebukes of his obvious steroid use is neither funny nor interesting.
To quote Craig Calcaterra from Hardball Talk, at length, since I cannot say it better:
"it’s fifteen paragraphs of sour grapes. Straight-forward unhappiness that Bonds had his conviction overturned without any attempt to wrestle with the actual legal context in which it occurred...he was acquitted. And the one charge of which he was convicted was legally unsound and not supported by evidence. And the appeals court properly overturned it, not because Barry Bonds isn’t a jerk, but because Barry Bonds is a citizen who is due the same legal process you, me and everyone else is. Unless Macur is advocating for the notion that everyone she considers to be a jerk or a liar be convicted of crimes regardless of the evidence, her column makes no sense and has no purpose."
"it’s fifteen paragraphs of sour grapes. Straight-forward unhappiness that Bonds had his conviction overturned without any attempt to wrestle with the actual legal context in which it occurred...he was acquitted. And the one charge of which he was convicted was legally unsound and not supported by evidence. And the appeals court properly overturned it, not because Barry Bonds isn’t a jerk, but because Barry Bonds is a citizen who is due the same legal process you, me and everyone else is. Unless Macur is advocating for the notion that everyone she considers to be a jerk or a liar be convicted of crimes regardless of the evidence, her column makes no sense and has no purpose."
4
Hmm, while it's understandable the IOC makes such an effort to sniff out doping, (the Olympics are, after all, about what nation has the best athletes, not the best chemists), I guess I view professional sports as largely an entertainment industry. Who cares if Lawrence Taylor horns up a gram of coke before the game, or what Jose Canseco injects into his leg? We're not talking about the financial crisis or ISIS, it's all about the terrifying sack, the awe inspiring dunk or the humongous home run. It's a show people, not a religion.
Hmm, seems like some of this sarcasm and vitriol should be directed towards the prosecutors. If prosecutors were subjected to something similar to the Zone Evaluation system as are MLB umpires, their low conviction rate might be a 1-way ticket to the minors....
Barry's biggest problem is he's too competitive to admit he cheated. Of course, he looks like an amateur up against someone like Lance Armstrong. In any case, he cheated and he sorta got caught. The rest is a painful wriggling around the truth...
"Now that Barry Bonds has been exonerated..."
Sadly, some (many?) will miss the sarcastic irony here and throughout...
Sadly, some (many?) will miss the sarcastic irony here and throughout...
How many of Bonds critics have ever hit a pitched baseball? How many have played past Little League? How many have ever faced Major League pitching? In a sport where virtually every athlete/entertainer is competing for millions of dollars and using every conceivable method to gain an edge or be competitive or stay in the game, not a single player EVER accomplished what Barry Bonds did. No amount of super human strength can result in even the most gifted Major Leaguer hitting the way Barry Bonds hit. He is unquestionably the greatest hitter who ever played the game.
You won't find any player who played at the top level of the game dispute this off the record. The haters can call him what they will but watching him walk four straight times and then see one mistake close to the strike zone in his next at bat rocket over the fence was truly magical.
He was a great player before his body transformation and he continued to be a great player until he was forced out of the game.
Where is the outrage over the $10+ million the government and it's chief inquisitor, Jeff Novitzky, spent to attempt to "convict" an entertainer for entertaining? Truly a typical American misplaced sense of priorities.
You won't find any player who played at the top level of the game dispute this off the record. The haters can call him what they will but watching him walk four straight times and then see one mistake close to the strike zone in his next at bat rocket over the fence was truly magical.
He was a great player before his body transformation and he continued to be a great player until he was forced out of the game.
Where is the outrage over the $10+ million the government and it's chief inquisitor, Jeff Novitzky, spent to attempt to "convict" an entertainer for entertaining? Truly a typical American misplaced sense of priorities.
1
Until somebody who clearly didn't Royd up hits more home runs, Hank Aaron will remain the Home Run King.
1
Until somebody who didn't use amphetamines hits more than Hank.
I don't get it. Cheating has been part of baseball for as long as there's been baseball, or certainly as long as players began to get paid. When Gaylord Perry was caught with a virtual tool chest in his glove people thought it was cute or funny. If I recall correctly, he was caught with Vaseline, nail file, sandpaper, a nail, and tweezers. Allegedly, his pitches were so moist that instead of the usual dust emanating from the catchers glove, a fine mist or vapor was observed. Gaylord Perry sits in the Hall of Fame, I believe.
According to Jim Bouton, in his classic exposé "Ball Four" about playing in the 60s and 70s, so many players were taking speed (greenies) to get through the grind of the season that rainout games always posed a difficult choice; do I take them anyway? And once again, nobody made too much noise about the "sanctity of the game". In my opinion, the only real difference between using amphetamines and using PEDS is that the latter represented a far more effective tool. The intent is identical.
Robert H Reiner, Ph.D., BCN, BCB
According to Jim Bouton, in his classic exposé "Ball Four" about playing in the 60s and 70s, so many players were taking speed (greenies) to get through the grind of the season that rainout games always posed a difficult choice; do I take them anyway? And once again, nobody made too much noise about the "sanctity of the game". In my opinion, the only real difference between using amphetamines and using PEDS is that the latter represented a far more effective tool. The intent is identical.
Robert H Reiner, Ph.D., BCN, BCB
1
ah...on the same day the former CIA director cuts a weetheart deal with the DOJ for giving highly classified information to his mistress/biographer. Glad to see DOJ has its priorities in order.
Bonds's cases was a travesty of justice...it doesn't matter how much money Bonds made or how big his muscles became. The real issue is not related to the HOF or even steroid use. It has always been that the DOJ and the US Attorney misused their public office and have been slavishly doing MLB's bidding on the taxpayer's dime. And make no mistake, those dimes have added up. Justice ultimately prevailed but at what cost? This should always have a been a dispute between private parties; that being Bonds and his employers.
Bonds's cases was a travesty of justice...it doesn't matter how much money Bonds made or how big his muscles became. The real issue is not related to the HOF or even steroid use. It has always been that the DOJ and the US Attorney misused their public office and have been slavishly doing MLB's bidding on the taxpayer's dime. And make no mistake, those dimes have added up. Justice ultimately prevailed but at what cost? This should always have a been a dispute between private parties; that being Bonds and his employers.
4
Funny that you mention Lance Armstrong analogy. People say Barry Bond at a cycling event in Marin country near San Francisco ! His now have a body build of bicyclist. Irony is not lost one me.
1
They ruined the most hallowed record in sports. It's high time that the home run record be officially recognized, i.e. 60 in a 154 game season.
1
Barry Bonds is a Giant. The question is what kind of Giant?
Wait, is this the New York Times or the New York Post? You are conflating your personal feelings about the guy with a legal question concerning the guy. The legal matter in question did not pass legal muster and the appellate court properly did its job, as it is staffed with rational adults schooled in matters of law. This is not the jury on Survivor who vote according to the caliber of their butthurt.
1
What unnecessary vitriol and sarcasm. I wonder why the author felt the need to pummel someone who has already been tarred in the court of public opinion for decades. Go after Selig and the owners if you're on some quest for justice or want to get to the bottom of all of this. They're the ones who've made millions and retained their legacies, public standing, etc.
2
Snark aside, how do you unring a bell? That's a question that cuts both ways: How do you unring the bell that is heard by those who would demonize Bonds? How do you unring the bell that is heard by those who left concession stands and restrooms ghostlike every time he came to bat? The divide will continue, but Bonds' spectacle and numbers will stand. In the 9th Circuit opinion, there are words that might set a precedent favoring a purer justice for the many, not just Bonds. And, in that there is a morality tale as significant as any the Hall of Fame and a bunch of baseball writers can spin.
What a nasty, snarky article. Yes I am an SF Giants fan, annd yes I believe Barry Bonds was convicted as a felon unjustly because the prosecution zeroed in on his supposed obfuscation. They were wrong, and the 12th court has correctly overturned the conviiction. Now write something factual about that, instead of this rant.
9
Barry Bonds lied and cheated about his use of steroids. The law cleared him for what appears to be good reasons. But for Bonds to whine and complain invites scorn, irony, mocking and sarcasm. These aspects of Ms. Macur's article are more than justified when this hypocritical cheat whines about hos he was treated.
This is a little over my sarcasm limit. The point certainly is well taken that we do not need to feel sorry for Barry Bonds, the all-time home run leader, and perhaps the all-time doper. The asterisk beside Roger Maris's 61 home runs pales by comparison to the one beside Barry Bond's name, the former indicative of 8 extra games, and the latter indicative of monumental cheating.
Still, we're all human. Big name athletes are human, and they get away with more than anonymous people when they fall flat. Should we never forgive Barry Bonds or Pete Rose? Humans of lesser integrity? Maybe we can exhibit higher integrity by not being quite so vindictive.
Still, we're all human. Big name athletes are human, and they get away with more than anonymous people when they fall flat. Should we never forgive Barry Bonds or Pete Rose? Humans of lesser integrity? Maybe we can exhibit higher integrity by not being quite so vindictive.
2
I'd have appreciated a serious treatment of this subject. It's more important than snark. Swing and a miss.
2
Seems as if all you sarcastic, knowledgeable, legal scholars can with great facility decide to support or oppose court rulings. OJ's jury was wrong, the Bond's decision is a mistake. Apparently your hatred for Bonds is so strong that the judiciary is to be ignored as a sideshow. You, Ms. Macur and others of her ilk, are the only ones who can divine the truth. It is no wonder the world is going to hell, everyone knows what is right except everyone else is wrong. Beware if the world you create.
1
Seems to me pay back time just like we did with The OJ case after Rodney King ! To help out with the Black image lately! And if he goes in by all means put Mark McGuire in he did not using anything that was banned . Mark McGuire retired in 2002 the hgh banned started in 2003 ! Oh I forgot he's white !
He's still guilty of being a colossal jerk.
1
Bud Selig has to be overjoyed too. After all, none of the steroids that hundreds of pitchers, hitter, fielders, & Cy Young winner's wives was condoned by the Greatest Head In The Sand Commissioner of all time, was it ??? Of course, when he found out, about the same time Barry Bonds discovered the "cream" wasn't just flaxseed oil, he came down as the Righteous Defender of Baseball, didn't he ??
Geezus, when does the NFL start again ?? Who cares about steroids and baseball, they're like peanut butter & jelly.
Geezus, when does the NFL start again ?? Who cares about steroids and baseball, they're like peanut butter & jelly.
By all means, let’s go watch the NFL, where there has never been the suspicion of steroid use by anyone.
No one equating muscle growth and hitting home runs has ever hit a baseball. Bonds is a target because he is black -- cf. Lenny Dykstra -- and because he was good -- cf. Lenny Dykstra. Anyone with two years of law school knows the facts have to prove the case. They do not for Bonds or Rodriguez or O.J. None of these (black) men is above the law. The law in all three cases was practiced poorly.
2
Hard to remember a more spiteful, snide, and sarcastic article in the Grey Lady. Did Barry Bonds do something awful to this writer? Because the level of vitriol on display here is astounding, and appears not to be commensurate with the sins committed by this man.
Yes it's awful that some people cheat and get away with it. Those of us who have never done anything wrong are certainly in a position to judge.
Reading this article, one would think that the anger of sportswriters should be an admissible artifact for court proceedings. The Court of Appeals could have weighed the evidence, and then pondered the fact that there are sports writers who have never, ever, ever done drugs, nor speeded, nor cheated on their taxes, who are very, very angry at Barry Bonds.
Then justice would have been meted out.
Hogwash.
Yes it's awful that some people cheat and get away with it. Those of us who have never done anything wrong are certainly in a position to judge.
Reading this article, one would think that the anger of sportswriters should be an admissible artifact for court proceedings. The Court of Appeals could have weighed the evidence, and then pondered the fact that there are sports writers who have never, ever, ever done drugs, nor speeded, nor cheated on their taxes, who are very, very angry at Barry Bonds.
Then justice would have been meted out.
Hogwash.
5
I don't really understand the point of Bonds-bashing articles like this.
This article comes across as petty and mean; it feels like something I'd read on an amateur sports blog, not in the New York Times.
What are you trying to prove, here? It seems like you're angry that Bonds' conviction was overturned, obviously, but other than that this article doesn't have any clear aim.
If you are trying to make a case to ban him from the Hall of Fame or from baseball or to put an asterisk next to all of his baseball achievements, that's fine -- make that case. Don't waste words taunting the guy. He's just a baseball player -- if you practiced what you're preaching here, you wouldn't have bothered writing this piece.
This article comes across as petty and mean; it feels like something I'd read on an amateur sports blog, not in the New York Times.
What are you trying to prove, here? It seems like you're angry that Bonds' conviction was overturned, obviously, but other than that this article doesn't have any clear aim.
If you are trying to make a case to ban him from the Hall of Fame or from baseball or to put an asterisk next to all of his baseball achievements, that's fine -- make that case. Don't waste words taunting the guy. He's just a baseball player -- if you practiced what you're preaching here, you wouldn't have bothered writing this piece.
2
This reads like it was written by a high school intern
27
Right. A high school intern on her way to Columbia University.
When I was a kid. I saw Ted Williams play. For decades, I believed he was the greatest hitter I'd ever see. Then, came Mr. Bonds. I thought, "He's a better all-around player than Ted and just maybe, as good a hitter". Then, came the body changes. For the first 2 years or so, I thought, "He's just working out more". Then, I began to think, "No one can change his cap size like that". You can't "workout" your skull. For me, that's the most damning piece of evidence. I can't get past it. I can find legitimate scientific reasons for the rest of his body's changes, but not that head.
so, I don't know whether the Government was overzealous or wasted millions of taxpayer dollars or not. I just believe that Mr. Bonds cheated and it makes me quite sad. I had thought he was the greatest all around player I'd ever see; but I was wrong. I guess I can understand why he "juiced" and why he lied. He's human, after all. But, I can't get over the feeling of having been cheated.
so, I don't know whether the Government was overzealous or wasted millions of taxpayer dollars or not. I just believe that Mr. Bonds cheated and it makes me quite sad. I had thought he was the greatest all around player I'd ever see; but I was wrong. I guess I can understand why he "juiced" and why he lied. He's human, after all. But, I can't get over the feeling of having been cheated.
17
You nailed it. The guy's face grew rounder and rounder, until he looked like the Man in the Moon. Bonds looked like an inflatable Bullwinkle in the Thanksgiving Parade. Anyone who has taken steroids for bona fide medical reasons knows the look, although few ever become as bent out of shape as these steroid fueled MLB sluggers were at the height of the doping era. It ain't normal, you don't get there eating a lot of pasta, and curiously every one of these bloated fellas started to deflate after they got 'made.' Just look at some 'before' and 'after' photos of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and the lot of them. And then think about the outrageous 'roid-fueled behavior of some of the less obviously bloated (e.g., Clemens' inexplicable 'I thought it was the ball' fractured bat javelin throw at Piazza).
Bonds may not be a felon, but he is still a practiced liar and cheater. Sad, because he was also an exceedingly talented and skilled baseball player, who would have been a shoo-in to the Hall of Fame without any chemical enhancement whatsoever.
I'm a baseball fundamentalist and, to paraphrase similarly fundamentalist bible-thumpers, I would simply ask, "What would Ichiro do?" We know damned well he wouldn't do like Barry. Never has and never will. If only everyone else in the sport -- management included -- had focused on their trade, and respected themselves, the fans and The Game, the way Ichiro, Griffey, Jeter and many others have done over the past two decades.
Bonds may not be a felon, but he is still a practiced liar and cheater. Sad, because he was also an exceedingly talented and skilled baseball player, who would have been a shoo-in to the Hall of Fame without any chemical enhancement whatsoever.
I'm a baseball fundamentalist and, to paraphrase similarly fundamentalist bible-thumpers, I would simply ask, "What would Ichiro do?" We know damned well he wouldn't do like Barry. Never has and never will. If only everyone else in the sport -- management included -- had focused on their trade, and respected themselves, the fans and The Game, the way Ichiro, Griffey, Jeter and many others have done over the past two decades.
35
As a life long Giants fan (all the way back to Seals stadium), we were spellbound (that is the only word to describe) when Barry Bonds came to bat during the peak of his power, it was mesmerizing. No one went to the concession stand when he was coming up in the inning. Many games he got 2 or 3 pitches in the strike zone. A slugging percentage around 800 for 4 yrs. 232 walks in one year of which over half were intentional. Total intimidation of every pitcher he faced from 2001-2004. Golden glove, only player ever to have more than 500 doubles and steals. As a Giant he hit 312.
Twenty nine other teams wish they had him, and those fans have always discounted his talent which was off the charts even before the steroids era.
Twenty nine other teams wish they had him, and those fans have always discounted his talent which was off the charts even before the steroids era.
24
So what is your point? Did he do it or not? Are you saying you still admire him in spite of everything?
2
"during the peak of his power"
Just imagine if the rest of the team had been juiced too. Would they have finished 162-0?
Just imagine if the rest of the team had been juiced too. Would they have finished 162-0?
And the little things, too. Like the fact he was the first power hitter in decades to significantly choke up on the bat, likely giving him an ability to turn on inside pitches that others popped up or could not keep fair. Why didn't other sluggers do this? Or the kinds of bats he used. You mentioned 500 HR/500 SB, at the time he did it no one else had even 400/400, I believe. He was able to use his baseball wisdom like no other batter in history; you weren't supposed to still swing the bat like he did at ages 36-40. The old line is that Supermen (young players) can do anything and know nothing whereas Einsteins (grizzled vets) can't do much of anything any longer despite their knowledge. For several years, thanks in part to PEDs, Bonds had the best of both worlds. Only Ruth ever posted similar dominating batting numbers, and he was 25-26-years-old when he did it.
The athlete Bruce Jenner gets a lot more respect from me.
10
I dont't even remotely understand what you mean, and don't get the recommends.
Why do you compare Bruce Jenner to this situation? I'd like to understand how you make the connection.
Why do you compare Bruce Jenner to this situation? I'd like to understand how you make the connection.
Thanks for asking.
Jenner's also in the news as you probably know. It's funny/ironic to me; Bonds has the imposing macho physique while I hear Jenner's considering a sex change operation. Neither has anything to apologize for insofar as the image they present. The connection for me is that they did unprecedented things in their respective sports. But I think Bonds did it dishonorably and Jenner wasn't.
Jenner's also in the news as you probably know. It's funny/ironic to me; Bonds has the imposing macho physique while I hear Jenner's considering a sex change operation. Neither has anything to apologize for insofar as the image they present. The connection for me is that they did unprecedented things in their respective sports. But I think Bonds did it dishonorably and Jenner wasn't.
Agreed. I saw Jenner at the Montreal Olympics and he was truly amazing.
1
This is a case about abuse of prosecutorial power tainting the justice system. You may not like Bonds and you may think he cheated (not be faulted for the sentiment or the thought), but his penalties lie in public opinion and perhaps in lack of access to the HOF. If you are subject to government investigation, you should lonely hope that you benefit from the standard that it took him eleven years to receive.
26
I think you meant to say "tainting the juice system", rather than "tainting the justice system".
10
Bonds is irrelevant. A more important topic for sarcastic criticism is the fact that admitted juicers are still making tens of millions every year in the majors. ARod, Cruz, Braun, Melky, the list goes on. There continues to be a culture of silence in the league and steroid use is rewarded far more than it is punished. Until that changes, we are hypocrites to vilify Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Clemens and company. They were not the problem. The problem is systemic and it continues.
37
Culture of silence? All those guys you mentioned were suspended and lost millions of dollars as punishment. They served their time, don't they have a right to a second chance and continue plying their trade? This year, Ervin Santana got suspended for 80 games and will lose nearly $7M. Several minor leaguers were caught and have been suspended for 80 games, and minor leaguers make terrible money to begin with. You need to calm down and get your facts straight.
The problem is: Nobody's hitting anymore -- and now we've got the megaphone-mouthed football guys in their varsity letter jackets hijacking cable TV and the interwebs to tell everyone the NFL is the greatest thing since sliced cheese. ... They're throwing parties now when the schedule gets released!?! ... How long does THIS continue?
Barry Bonds has enough money to buy almost anything he wants: homes, cars, swimming pools, high-end legal representation and, thus, favorable verdicts from our broken legal system.
There are, however, two things he'll never be able to buy at any price: the respect of the vast majority of American baseball fans and induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
There are, however, two things he'll never be able to buy at any price: the respect of the vast majority of American baseball fans and induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
29
Snore. Barry Bonds is one of the top 5 hitters of all time, and he will eventually get into the HoF when people get off their high horses. The dude didn't suddenly become an awesome hitter when he starting 'roiding. Don't you think it's odd that a vast majority of players suspended for PEDs are minor leaugers you have and will most likely never hear of? Everyone makes big assumptions about how PEDs affect player performance, but the fact is, no one is really sure apart that it allows players to recover more quickly from workouts. Is it really that much different from players such as Mays, Aaron, Rose, etc., loading up on amphetamines to get through the season?
By your reasoning of the justice system, multi-billionaire Bernie Madoff should be luxuriating in freedom because he bought the best lawyers money could guy. Instead, he'll be luxuriating for the rest of his life at the Butler Federal Correctional Institution.
Also apparently his money wasn't enough to buy him fair impartial treatment under the law, and instead his money, among other things, got him falsely convicted of a felony. You know, in the real world, where there are consequences and things actually matter, and lives are ruined? Not like the baseball fantasy world where anyone cares what pathetic old white baseball writers think about who is "deserving" or not.
Personally I don't think anyone should go to jail or be placed under house arrest for steroid use. However I also don't think cheaters should be rewarded and I suspect and hope that Mr.Bonds will be rightly shunned by the Baseball world.
15
The banksters got away with it, too. Moral of the story- save enough for a really good lawyer.
10
Delectable work, Ms. Macur. Barry Bonds will never escape his legacy: the greatest cheater of them all. Most cheaters are ridiculed or easily dismissed, but there is a small group that inspires genuine awe. Bonds is the captain of such a team. Despite the indispensable "Game of Shadows" and other reporting, we're still in the dark about some of what this guy did to break the game of baseball from 2001-04. For example, by all accounts Bonds enjoyed a great "recovery" season in 2000, hitting a then-career high 49 HR in only 143 GP. According to "Game of Shadows" this was likely the first full year he played using PEDs. To wit:
Bonds v. LHP (AVG/OBP/SLG)
1997: .295/.427/.584
1998: .280/.418/.494
1999: .266/.394/.594
2000: .230/.320/.527
2001: .312/.487/.752
2002: .384/.556/.976
2003: .363/.509/.790
2004: .307/.524/.571
Despite "better health" and added "bulk" and despite those HR, Bonds had his least effective batting season against lefties in a long time, which is not surprising given his age (36), a time when even the best players ever have slipped considerably from their heights. In 148 official ABs against LHP in 2000, Bonds hit *only* 12 HR. What happened next was extraordinary. His HR/AB v. LHP ratio went to 17/141(!), then 21/125(!!) and 16/124(!) before finally a drop at age 40 to 8/140. In Bonds' best pre-2001 year, 1993, he posted 15/218.
If PEDs helped to cause Bonds' 2000 power surge, why did it take him a year longer to arrest and reverse his fade against LHP?
Bonds v. LHP (AVG/OBP/SLG)
1997: .295/.427/.584
1998: .280/.418/.494
1999: .266/.394/.594
2000: .230/.320/.527
2001: .312/.487/.752
2002: .384/.556/.976
2003: .363/.509/.790
2004: .307/.524/.571
Despite "better health" and added "bulk" and despite those HR, Bonds had his least effective batting season against lefties in a long time, which is not surprising given his age (36), a time when even the best players ever have slipped considerably from their heights. In 148 official ABs against LHP in 2000, Bonds hit *only* 12 HR. What happened next was extraordinary. His HR/AB v. LHP ratio went to 17/141(!), then 21/125(!!) and 16/124(!) before finally a drop at age 40 to 8/140. In Bonds' best pre-2001 year, 1993, he posted 15/218.
If PEDs helped to cause Bonds' 2000 power surge, why did it take him a year longer to arrest and reverse his fade against LHP?
5
Apparently New Yorkers will never get over the fact that the West Coast now represents the best side of America.... How come no one ever said "Go East, young man"?
4
If Bonds represents the best side of America you and he are welcome to it.
49
You don't speak for me Paul.
1
Because, at that point in time, there were very few people in the west.
When anyone, even someone we may not be crazy about, is unjustly convicted (overturned 10-1) by overzealous prosecutors out to get that person, each of us is endangered and our justice system is put at risk. And yes - they wasted millions of taxpayer dollars to do it. LIke him or not, the overturning of Barry Bond's conviction is a victory for all of us.
58
So Barry Bonds spoke the truth?
Was he acussed of something he did not do?
How was this conviction over-turned anyway?
Was he acussed of something he did not do?
How was this conviction over-turned anyway?
7
No, Nancy, it's not a victory for all of us. It's a victory for all the wealthy folks who "game" a flawed legal system by being able to hire very good, very expensive lawyers and win, or get acquitted, as a result. The government lawyers typically are either relatively young and hoping to get into a high-paying law firm, or relatively mediocre careerists who have given up that goal because of a lack of ability. It's by no means a level playing field, and "all of us" lose, as a result.
1
As a former reporter who covered federal courts, and as anyone who simply follows the news closely could know, prosecutors rescue far too many failed prosecutions by "getting" the defendant on perjury charges, using trickery and leaving the bigger questions of justice undecided because their accusations are weak and their efforts less than rigorous. This "gotcha" prosecution is a plague on our society, as is "gotcha" journalism and, frankly, schadenfreude. As Nancy says, the Bonds victory is a victory for all of us.
I think this article should have ended with, "But you will never, ever, get into the Baseball Hall of Fame, you cheater. You disgraced the records set by Mr. Aaron, Mr. Ruth, Mr. Mays, and the rest of the clean recordholders. For that -- and the way you daily disgrace your father's integrity -- you never shall be forgiven."
30
Who made the most money from steroids, overall?
Spoiler: Bud Selig and the owners.
Mays & Aaron abused amphetamines.
And, Mays is Bonds' close w Bonds (maybe godfather), so he has had no problem w Bonds.
Spoiler: Bud Selig and the owners.
Mays & Aaron abused amphetamines.
And, Mays is Bonds' close w Bonds (maybe godfather), so he has had no problem w Bonds.
Ruth drank pretty openly at a time when consuming alcohol was illegal. Aaron and Mays both used amphetamines. Players talk about how they won't stop dipping because it "gives them energy"--and that's perfectly acceptable, beause that's just how it's always been.
And as recently as this week, Mays said he's looking forward to A-Rod breaking his record because records were made to be broken. Perspective is awesome.
And as recently as this week, Mays said he's looking forward to A-Rod breaking his record because records were made to be broken. Perspective is awesome.
None of dopers/juicers serve time. They all got away with it.
They collected the hefty paychecks and moved on
A-Fraud is rubbing in it in our face just about every day. He will collect 60+ mil over the next 2 years!
Horary to integrity
Horary to honor
Horary to hard work/fair play
They collected the hefty paychecks and moved on
A-Fraud is rubbing in it in our face just about every day. He will collect 60+ mil over the next 2 years!
Horary to integrity
Horary to honor
Horary to hard work/fair play
6
Great article. But will it resonate with the duffuses of the sporting world who think his natural talent early in his career trumps his cheating and lying about steroid use. Never, ever make a hero out an athlete. They simply do not deserve it.
19
You know something? I watched him hit in all those years being not tested and being tested. The ball left the park less often in some years but when it did it had the same speed.
Bonds never tested positive for any substance. This is the fact and it is not in dispute.
Bonds never tested positive for any substance. This is the fact and it is not in dispute.
13