I must disagree with those who say firing people doesn't solve the problem. As an employer, I have learned that nothing is worse for an organization than a 'bad' staff. It creates a terribly unhealthy, toxic atmosphere in the organization. No one person is bigger than the organization and no one is irreplaceable. The trick is to make sure you terminate the right people. But it is amazing to see how quickly the attitude and therefore the performance of an organization can change if you terminate the bad employees. A significant problem with government employees, however, is that it can be very difficult to terminate them. And that is unfortunate.
4
Gosh, all of those incompetent VA bureaucrats would lose their jobs?
This sounds as if, there are far too many layers of people between those who actually have contact with veterans, whether they take applications or provide medical treatment, and those in"name" positions at the top. The intermediate hierarchy, just like in the Catholic Church, or GM in their failing days, feeds the top what they wish to hear, and holds fast to the status quo. There clearly needs to be structural changes, and most likely eliminating intermediate layers of bureaucracy. The VA wasn't prepared for the large number of vets from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, which is understandable. But this has been such a scandal it becomes hard to grasp why it has been so lethargic, knowing the country is watching.
It must be demoralizing for hard working dedicated VA workers and medical staff to hear this, and to put up with ethically challenged "leaders." W/r/t "inappropriate gifts;" frankly, there should be no gifts. And if it is determined that the director who was removed knew and was responsible for deliberate misinformation about the waiting lists, she should be forced to return portions of her pay.
It must be demoralizing for hard working dedicated VA workers and medical staff to hear this, and to put up with ethically challenged "leaders." W/r/t "inappropriate gifts;" frankly, there should be no gifts. And if it is determined that the director who was removed knew and was responsible for deliberate misinformation about the waiting lists, she should be forced to return portions of her pay.
6
(continued) Bureaucrats who get caught, however, are profoundly embarrassing, evoking screams of outrage from politicians who are shocked to discover gambling taking place in Rick's Cafe.
3
My husband is a 68 year old Disabled American Veteran. We called VA Secretary Robert McDonald's cell phone. Getting voice mail, we left name and number. A member of Secretary McDonald's staff, Erin Gittens returned my call. She looked at my husband file. His appeal for compensation has been backlogged at the Cleveland Regional Office since 2010 Erin Gittens promised to send an email to the Cleveland Regional Office inquiring about my husband's claim. We received a phone call from the Cleveland Regional Office. The gentleman's name is Kevin Freedman. Mr. Freedman was very upset that I had called Secretary McDonald. He said he was TOTALLY IN CHARGE OF MY HUSBAND'S CLAIM, not anyone in Washington, especially Robert McDonald. Mr. Kevin Freedman stated that he intended to immediately DENY THE CLAIM! My husband and I were shocked that this gentleman, Kevin Freedman could DENY THE CLAIM that has lingered at the CLEVELAND REGIONAL OFFICE for OVER 4 years, in less than 4 MINUTES! It is obvious that this VA WORKER, KEVIN FREEDMAN is angry because we phoned McDonald for help. In revenge, Kevin Freedman is denying the claim OUT OF SPITE! Mr. Freedman's reply was, "There is really no point in you filing , I am going to DENY the CLAIM! But, if you insist, Come on up to Cleveland!"
We are senior citizens. My husband is a veteran. We do not deserve to be treated with such TOTAL DISRESPECT!
We are senior citizens. My husband is a veteran. We do not deserve to be treated with such TOTAL DISRESPECT!
12
Firing people may be emotionally satisfying but it would do little to actually improve matters. It’s the easy, politically expedient way to appear to address the problem without really doing so. Reforming the VA, as with any large institution, will require hard work, patience and yes, probably more money.
The VA employees accused of being complicit in this scandal should have a right to due process before losing their livelihood, not because some in Congress decide to make political points. They should let Robert McDonald handle this the way he sees fit, and not distract him from priority number one --- creating a reformed VA.
The VA employees accused of being complicit in this scandal should have a right to due process before losing their livelihood, not because some in Congress decide to make political points. They should let Robert McDonald handle this the way he sees fit, and not distract him from priority number one --- creating a reformed VA.
3
Let's get emotional. Bet a few hard-working illegals would love to get a VA job.
2
The VA employees who removed veterans from the lists of veterans waiting for appointments in order to "earn" bonuses should be prosecuted for defrauding the government. As quite a few veterans died because they were denied medical these criminals should be charged with murder.
4
There is no "A" word--accountability--at the Library of Congress either. Hence the horrifying mess existing there. Once it was one of the greatest libraries in the world. Now it isn't even in the running. Yes, Congress has held hearings. And the problems were outlined. And the Chiefs were put in charge of making the essential changes, i.e., the foxes were put in charge of the hen house. Nothing has changed = the morale of the staff is worse than the morale of the people working for Homeland Security!
4
There are a lot of people on here holding a VA up as an example of inefficient government or, bizarrely, evidence of some failure on President Obama's part. It is really neither of those things. It is an example of a very entrenched organization that operates on an authoritarian, punitive management philosophy. Such organizations are not unique to government agencies: they can exist anywhere. But where they exist, they create misery, and when that misery is tied to the provision of healthcare, it can be catastrophic. Our vets aren't widgets. They need optimal health and behavioral healthcare and in order for that to be delivered, it needs to come from an organization in which the staff are psychological healthy themselves. The VA doesn't promote psychological health among its staff. It actually creates a great deal of dissatisfaction and low morale among those who are critically needed to treat vets. The solution to this is either a vast transformation of the VA, which is unlikely, certainly by non-visionary people like McDonald, or dissolution of the VA health system and a shift to private sector care. As someone who believes in socialized healthcare, which is what the VA is, I would be sorry to see it dissolve, but not as sorry as I would be to see it continue in its current form.
10
Well said. However, like most calcified organizations, the VA need a shock to its system - a change-agent who that turns the bureaucracy on its head. We do it in business all the time. The VA medical side is mostly excellent, but the admin side is disengaged from their mission - to heal and serve our veterans.
As a Vietnam Veteran, I gave up on the VA decades ago because I could afford private care. However, as a Vet and American Taxpayer I remain outraged at the treatment my brothers receive (or not).
Hoorah for Congress for changing the rules that protect the VA laggards at the expense of our Vets.
As a Vietnam Veteran, I gave up on the VA decades ago because I could afford private care. However, as a Vet and American Taxpayer I remain outraged at the treatment my brothers receive (or not).
Hoorah for Congress for changing the rules that protect the VA laggards at the expense of our Vets.
4
The only long-term solution to veterans' medical care is to integrate them with the mainstream health care providers. The VA Choice act opens the door a crack. Choice should be increased to allow veterans to receive care from any provider willing to take them. The VHA needs to sell all their medical facilities and eliminate providers on the government payroll, and just pay the bills to the providers for all service-related treatments. The providers should accept standard insurance negotiated rates.
4
I'd like to know the specific nature of the "inappropriate gifts" that were accepted, and who offered them. This is outrageous.
5
How many of the TBTF banksters lost their jobs? Whose actions were worse?
6
The reason for the financial collapse is that government was forcing banks to give loans to people without verification of their ability to pay. This was a policy of the the progressives who were claiming that everyone had the right to own a house.
1
Since we're keeping boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, we need some V.A. outreach- round up all the "bad apples" and send 'em over there. ISIL does wonders for "head count", I've heard...
1
I'm a Korean Vet. At the age of 75 and still working, I received a letter from the VA that I should visit the local VA and sign up for medical care. I had medical insurance with my employer and never thought of the VA but I did just that and was told I did not qualify. I tossed that aside. A month later I received a letter from the VA that I am eligible for medical benefits and should visit my local VA. I did again and was rejected again because I told I was not eligible. I became upside to say the least and asked why I keep receiving letter to come to the VA to sign up? I got a blank look from the lady in charge and a shrug of the shoulder. I wrote to my representative in Congress about the problem. I received a letter a few weeks later from the VA stating that I should call the VA and make an appointment with a doctor and the letter stated, "Welcome to the VA". That's my experience with joining the VA. I had to resort to my Congressman to sign up. What a farce!
9
Each year, Congress allocates a budget of $16.5 billion ( that's $16,500,000,000 - $16 billion, 500 million) to the VA.
This money is not be used to help our injured, sick and wounded veteran soldiers! The VA executives, VA lawyers and VA claims processors will divide this money up among themselves in enormous salaries, bonuses ranging between $20,000.-$50,000.00 annually, complete family medical, dental and eye car, huge homes, government issued automobiles, vacations and conferences to exotic locations such as Hawaii, the Virgin Islands, Las Vegas and more! There are 300,000 employees on the VA payroll (Gravy Train). They will get all the taxpayers money while our Wounded Warriors are suffering and dying begging the VA for medical compensation and medical care!
This money is not be used to help our injured, sick and wounded veteran soldiers! The VA executives, VA lawyers and VA claims processors will divide this money up among themselves in enormous salaries, bonuses ranging between $20,000.-$50,000.00 annually, complete family medical, dental and eye car, huge homes, government issued automobiles, vacations and conferences to exotic locations such as Hawaii, the Virgin Islands, Las Vegas and more! There are 300,000 employees on the VA payroll (Gravy Train). They will get all the taxpayers money while our Wounded Warriors are suffering and dying begging the VA for medical compensation and medical care!
5
Get rid of the VA and have all vets be on that wonderful Medicare and Medicaid.
"Rather than disciplining bad employees, V.A. often just transfers them to other V.A. facilities...". Sounds like the way the Catholic Church handled their wayward priests.
6
What does the V.A. have in common with the Catholic church? Both could be considered a way to get to heaven ... sooner.
2
Bureauracy always protects its own.
4
The problem is not money. The VA didn't spend their entire budget.
The authoritarian solution would be to add several thousand more pages of regulations and hire more people to track and apply those regulations. Government bureaucracies are stifling to work in with the endless rules for everything and it takes a certain type of person to survive or thrive in such environments. People who actually want to do a good job are frustrated and generally find someplace else to make a positive difference.
The conservative answer would be to make the VA an insurance company and allow members to receive treatment anywhere they wanted to go. Then the VA hospitals would have to compete with service and quality.
The politicians' answer is to find out how to turn this problem into votes for their re-election.
Guess we will see what happens if anything.
The authoritarian solution would be to add several thousand more pages of regulations and hire more people to track and apply those regulations. Government bureaucracies are stifling to work in with the endless rules for everything and it takes a certain type of person to survive or thrive in such environments. People who actually want to do a good job are frustrated and generally find someplace else to make a positive difference.
The conservative answer would be to make the VA an insurance company and allow members to receive treatment anywhere they wanted to go. Then the VA hospitals would have to compete with service and quality.
The politicians' answer is to find out how to turn this problem into votes for their re-election.
Guess we will see what happens if anything.
5
I think part of the church reasoning was that there are fewer priests available every year so they had to try to keep them. Not the same case with medical system admins.
Insurance companies and provision of health care inexpensively and competently don't have a good record in the US. As someone who paid for her own health insurance for 20+ years, I can assure you of that. I also have a sibling who would be uninsurable had she not worked for a government agency.
So being a "conservative" means utilizing a mechanism that hasn't worked well in the past but lets use it again anyway because it's familiar? Or because insurance companies lobby well?
So being a "conservative" means utilizing a mechanism that hasn't worked well in the past but lets use it again anyway because it's familiar? Or because insurance companies lobby well?
1
The last paragraph tells the crux of the issue: According to Raymond Kelley the only way to improve the functioning of U.S. Veterans Affairs is ..."unclog the middle management that appears to be part of the problem and get the right people in those positions." In other other words, employees are not going to resign from a job that provides excellent benefits - no matter their productivity.
3
Why does this place even exist other than employ people who know they will never be fired no matter what they do or do not do?
1
See TBTF banks, how many of the CEOs were fired when the housing bubble (which they helped create) burst? When the TBTF banks had to be bailed out? How many CEOs of major corporations are fired (or COOs, CFOs) when their corporations don't do well?
Since the Vietnam War the VA has been underfunded, understaffed and as a result mismanaged. Then the American public was indifferent to veterans and today most support who served. Even organizations against current war(s) support veterans.
Current number of veterans from Afghanistan, Iraq is much higher than Vietnam vets. Also more military are alive today needing care due exceptional field medical care with new technology.
So here we have a VA that cannot process paperwork for one reason the Department of Defense passes information along slowly having disability claims taking too long. VA not enough nurses, doctors including mental health professionals and administrative staff.
Think of a local community hospital caring for in/out patients of maybe 2,000. All of a sudden the hospital now needs to serve 6 times that amount.
Current number of veterans from Afghanistan, Iraq is much higher than Vietnam vets. Also more military are alive today needing care due exceptional field medical care with new technology.
So here we have a VA that cannot process paperwork for one reason the Department of Defense passes information along slowly having disability claims taking too long. VA not enough nurses, doctors including mental health professionals and administrative staff.
Think of a local community hospital caring for in/out patients of maybe 2,000. All of a sudden the hospital now needs to serve 6 times that amount.
3
The VAMC's actually have one of the better electronic file systems and installed it before the privator sector has (and is being forced to). I've watched a veteran request appointments and prescriptions online and be able to find out what's happening with her requests, etc.
My local health care provider? (A chain that has a near monopoly in 3 counties and is subsidized via a health district/property taxes). Introduced an alleged portal, that was a complete failure (w/in the last few years). Now has instituted a new "portal" system. One that supposedly works. Also introduced a new electronic records system for providers to use--what I saw of it a few months suggests it's not particularly good. Did not bring forward data from older records and seems to put in a default value for certain types of needed tests, so even if you haven't had the test, the default is that you had it within the last few years.
Required use of voice recognition software --w/out any kind of proof reading requirement---by the private sector (clinic/hospital chains) is leading to medical records where some words aren't decipherable (or it's the wrong word). That can very easily lead to malpractice. As one MD said to me, no one's going to pay me for the time it takes to review the print out, so I don't do it. Private medical sector (chains) aren't hiring anyone else to do it either.
My local health care provider? (A chain that has a near monopoly in 3 counties and is subsidized via a health district/property taxes). Introduced an alleged portal, that was a complete failure (w/in the last few years). Now has instituted a new "portal" system. One that supposedly works. Also introduced a new electronic records system for providers to use--what I saw of it a few months suggests it's not particularly good. Did not bring forward data from older records and seems to put in a default value for certain types of needed tests, so even if you haven't had the test, the default is that you had it within the last few years.
Required use of voice recognition software --w/out any kind of proof reading requirement---by the private sector (clinic/hospital chains) is leading to medical records where some words aren't decipherable (or it's the wrong word). That can very easily lead to malpractice. As one MD said to me, no one's going to pay me for the time it takes to review the print out, so I don't do it. Private medical sector (chains) aren't hiring anyone else to do it either.
This is a NATIONAL DISGRACE!
Our veterans are SUFFERING & DYING while BEGGING the VA FOR HELP. Veterans are losing all hope of getting HELP. More and more injured, sick and wounded veterans are hurting so badly, they see no way out except to take drastic action.
The VA employees are still stealing all the BILLIONS of DOLLARS OF OUR TAXPAYERS' MONEY that should be used to provide medical care and compensation for our disabled veterans!
As of today, Friday, April 17, 2015, these VA Executives, VA Claims Processors and VA Lawyers are still mocking and mistreating our WOUNDED WARRIORS with their VA Anthem " DENY, DENY, UNTIL THEY DIE!"
Our veterans are SUFFERING & DYING while BEGGING the VA FOR HELP. Veterans are losing all hope of getting HELP. More and more injured, sick and wounded veterans are hurting so badly, they see no way out except to take drastic action.
The VA employees are still stealing all the BILLIONS of DOLLARS OF OUR TAXPAYERS' MONEY that should be used to provide medical care and compensation for our disabled veterans!
As of today, Friday, April 17, 2015, these VA Executives, VA Claims Processors and VA Lawyers are still mocking and mistreating our WOUNDED WARRIORS with their VA Anthem " DENY, DENY, UNTIL THEY DIE!"
5
The VA will go to great links to make a veteran look like a liar! They force our veterans to fill our hundreds and hundreds of pages of paperwork. Most veterans have difficulty understanding the complex forms. You must be a lawyer to shovel your way through these pages.
If a veterans forgets every single detail of their military service because years have passed, or the veteran has injures such as PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury, etc., the VA, led by SECRETARY ROBERT McDONALD, DENIES MEDICAL & COMPENSATION!
When Secretary McDonald lies, saying he was in Special Forces, when he never even saw action, the VA claims he simply MISSPOKE!
Who is the LIAR NOW! Ironic, Isn't It
5
Launching Ethics Committee Probe against Veterans Administration.....5, 4, 3, 2, 1
2
This Va mess is just another proof of government failure. What is more important is the fact that this is a national health care system and the Republicans totally support it. Explain that proof of hypocrisy before you try to fix a government controlled management system, one that those no real management background elected officials seem to think they can.
1
The VA, since 1930, giving Veterans the opportunity to possibly die for their county again...
9
I am a primary care nurse practitioner. And a dedicated one who does my darnedest to take good care of my patients. There was a time when I applied to the local VA for an NP job because I truly thought I could make a difference. I really wanted to work there. For whatever reason, I never heard a peep from the VA. Since the scandal broke last year, however, I have thought of the VA as pretty much the last place I would like to work. There has been a lot of hiring going on, but I have not applied for a single job. Reading this article confirms the correctness of my decision. I know other NPs who feel the same way. What does it say when dedicated people who love primary care recoil at the thought of working for the VA? The culture needs to change there, from top to bottom. But I'm not going to hold my breath, especially after reading this article.
5
Another organization shifted "staff" around to other places when their employees put the agency at risk with abhorrent and unscrupulous behavior.
It's called the Catholic Church.
Isn't it interesting these agencies don't seem to care how so many people can continue to be hurt by keeping these "employees" instead of getting rid of them?
It's called the Catholic Church.
Isn't it interesting these agencies don't seem to care how so many people can continue to be hurt by keeping these "employees" instead of getting rid of them?
3
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the glorious and infallible Big Government, where every Big Government screw-up is greeted with the same solution: Bigger Government
4
TBTF banks are now bigger then ever.
They're part of what you seem to think is the vastly superior private sector. bankster bonuses are bigger then ever. TBTF banks w/their off balance sheet, etc. (just like Bush II's putting much the cost of his two very lengthy wars "off budget"! Guess the US really did need someone who was such a "success" in the private sector to teach gov't how to cook the books). Tell me again why the TBTF banks had to be bailed out?
They're part of what you seem to think is the vastly superior private sector. bankster bonuses are bigger then ever. TBTF banks w/their off balance sheet, etc. (just like Bush II's putting much the cost of his two very lengthy wars "off budget"! Guess the US really did need someone who was such a "success" in the private sector to teach gov't how to cook the books). Tell me again why the TBTF banks had to be bailed out?
From personal experience, it is impossible to make real change (including firing people) in the VA because of beaucracy and civil service. The system is vastly inefficient and needlessly expensive. Except for direct war and service-related injuries, the system should be privatized. Period.
5
The Secretary of the VA was essentially fired. Accountability was established. Simple minded people may believe that firing people fixes problems, but the problems facing the VA will not be solved by firing staff members unless they violated the law or regulations. There are very good reasons why federal employees have rigorous due process rights including protection against political purges and lynch mob mentality. A very competent man was put in charge of the VA, let him do his job for a couple years and then judge whether improvement has been made. There are a lot of old and sick veterans who are just not going to get better regardless of how much healthcare they get.
1
Why is a VA employee unlike a bullet?
You can fire a bullet.
Bullet only kills once
You can fire a bullet.
Bullet only kills once
4
This is only the beginning. For years the VA Comp and Pension section has been denying claims, redefining science and outright lying. The claims backlog is only one part of the whole story. Denials of legitimate claims by the Vietnam Blue Water navy is one example, others are the C123 crews and soon to be the burn pit victims from Iraq. If an investigation were to be conducted, I wonder if any heads will roll? I, for one, call for the resignation of Allison Hickey and Thomas Murphy for lying to Congress and the American people, cooking the books on claims and backlogs, and prejudice towards any Veterans that file a claim. Just think how easy their jobs would be if there were no claims, or they were all rubber stamped "denied". Bonus' all around!
3
Very different part of the VA from the VAMC with two different philosophies. If you've spent any time talking to some of the VAMC physicians and social workers, you'd find that some of them are as frustrated with the C & P system as you are.
With the free-swinging budget ax the House Republicans are so fond of waving about, how many of VA's problems generally and this issue specifically are rooted with them?
2
Does Professor Krugman read his own newspaper? He might find this article instructive.
1
This is outrageous. We cannot reform this bureaucracy. It protects itself. It waits us out. It is masterful at surviving and at doing nothing useful. We pay for this. We suffer for this. We must demand the VA is destroyed and then rebuilt. Then the Secret Service. Then the NSA. ..and on and on. Accountability is a cultural value. These are rotten cultures.
3
Big government, union workers without any chance of being fired, bereft of incentives. We should expect little. We should all realize that Bureaucracies are parasites on the ecosystem.
5
let's be frank, if the Veterans Affairs was an administration to help women give birth, the entire management would have been fired, because the VA has mostly male veterans only token firings, as male patients are disposable and if they die we can discontinue their payments.
2
For those who feel more money is the answer, the current tab is $163B. This on top of the $600B spent on the active military. Our obsession with warmaking will destroy us.
2
The SYSTEM protects its own -- here, there, everywhere. Unless you blow the whistle on someone within its hierarchy, someone committing some breach of trust or egregious acts of negligence or gross malfeasance. Then, the Furies erupt from the heights of Olympus and swing into attack-mode -- against you.
1
I remember Jimmy Carter on TV with a flowchart of what it took to fire a Federal employee. This is not a new problem by any means.
3
280,000 thousand employees? All Union members? Don't even try to reform this scam. Just keep paying and stop complaining.
3
The only people who lose their jobs at VA facilities are those who try to improve the system.
4
In the private sector you can get yelled at, demoted, harshly treated, and fired easily for simple errors that are correctable and learnable.
In the public sector, you can be grossly incompetent for years, commit illegal acts, and literally kill people as this story shows, and still keep your job.
Can we somehow in this country pass some laws to force the private sector to be more forgiving and force the public sector to be more sane?
In the public sector, you can be grossly incompetent for years, commit illegal acts, and literally kill people as this story shows, and still keep your job.
Can we somehow in this country pass some laws to force the private sector to be more forgiving and force the public sector to be more sane?
2
Well, even three is too many. When compared to the deeds vs. punishment of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Their actions resulted in thousands of deaths, yet they have only been the recipients of harsh words. Do you suppose that is what is meant by the words " justice for all"??
The problem of appointment delays is simply not enough practitioners to see VA patients! Since this problem was identified, there appears not to be a significant increase in nurse practitioner, physician assistant or physician positions in the VA nationwide. More practitioners is the only cure for VA patients.
1
It takes an act of Congress to fire an entrenched Federal employee.
2
Maybe Barry will execute an order to mandate that all Americans will use the VA Sstem for their health care. Why not? Will get rid of private hospitals and doctors, let alone out go the insurance companies. National health insurance with a stroke of his pen!
2
It seems like the most common question asked about government these days is, "how did we end up with this mess?"
How did we end up with an incompetent and dysfunctional Secret Service? The Washington Post has a story today about how it took over a year to replace a broken alarm system at Bush I's house.
And now this--a dishonest and dysfunctional VA system, where virtually no one gets punished.
How did we end up with an incompetent and dysfunctional Secret Service? The Washington Post has a story today about how it took over a year to replace a broken alarm system at Bush I's house.
And now this--a dishonest and dysfunctional VA system, where virtually no one gets punished.
8
Thats an easy one-we ended up with this mess because one political party in this nation thinks that government should be shrunk to the size that it can be "drowned in a bathtub".
Perhaps they shouldn't be in government if they are so against it...
Perhaps they shouldn't be in government if they are so against it...
It isn't often noted that government bureaucrats who "cook the books" are colluding with and covering up for politicians who are loathe to allow their names to become associated with any legislation which would increase the size of the budget but are nonetheless determined to be seen as staunch supporters of people who are widely perceived as virtuous and deserving, none more so than "our men and women in uniform."
8
In other words, Congress itself is ultimately responsible for overseeing the VA, no? Love how Congress is so quick to point the finger. It's very good at that maneuver which makes everyone look away from Congress - why you'd think that Congress isn't even a part of our government rather than the institution that is ultimately responsible, along with the departments and of course, the executive branch.
From personal experience I can say that there are problems with the VA throughout the system. This was the tip of the iceberg. This dealt with simply one aspect of a complicated and unresponsive bureaucratic maze that is Kafkaesque from top to bottom.
I am not convinced that my experience was exceptional. It is entirely too complicated to go into here, but I will just say that I found the problems are numerous and truly maddening. In spite of all the problems I had. I never experienced long wait times. But that was the only problem I didn't encounter, however I stopped using them after only two visits.
The last time I went to a VA hospital was in October of 2013. They told me last April that I would receive a $44 refund in 2-12 weeks. It still hasn't arrived. I did get another bill for $18 a couple of months ago for "administrative costs." And that's just the tip!
Calling them is completely useless. On one two hour phone call trying to find out how to pay all I owed and be done with them, I was sent around in circles until I wound up talking to the same person who had originally answered my call. I was thinking, this is strange could there be two people with the same name, and when I gave her my name she said, "I just talked to a few minutes ago didn't I." We both had a good laugh over that.
Most ironic of all is they start each call by asking if you want to do harm to yourself or others. They should ask that question at the end of the call.
I am not convinced that my experience was exceptional. It is entirely too complicated to go into here, but I will just say that I found the problems are numerous and truly maddening. In spite of all the problems I had. I never experienced long wait times. But that was the only problem I didn't encounter, however I stopped using them after only two visits.
The last time I went to a VA hospital was in October of 2013. They told me last April that I would receive a $44 refund in 2-12 weeks. It still hasn't arrived. I did get another bill for $18 a couple of months ago for "administrative costs." And that's just the tip!
Calling them is completely useless. On one two hour phone call trying to find out how to pay all I owed and be done with them, I was sent around in circles until I wound up talking to the same person who had originally answered my call. I was thinking, this is strange could there be two people with the same name, and when I gave her my name she said, "I just talked to a few minutes ago didn't I." We both had a good laugh over that.
Most ironic of all is they start each call by asking if you want to do harm to yourself or others. They should ask that question at the end of the call.
23
Inefficiency in Federal and State government is partly due to the difficulty in firing dishonest, incompetent, or merely lazy workers in the system. Hiring/firing practices need to be more in line with outside corporate policies. State and Federal staff seem to be merely transferred elsewhere, which is NOT a solution. Good workers won't stay because they can't stand the environment.
20
Still more than the banks lost after wrecking the world economy.
4
Maybe, but don't think that lessens the disgraceful nature of the situation or the response.
1
It's like the old joke - What do you have to do to get fired around here?
9
I think it is called a sluggish, anachronistic bureaucracy with an internal culture of 'look the other way' and a system so top heavy with tenured in managers that change is like trying to turn a battleship around on a dime. I have been involved from the outside as an educator in charge of student interns and know that there are many very competent employees, both in professional and staff positions who really care for their clients and patients. But, in relation to Managing Change, there is a bureaucratic inertia that makes change almost impossible. Too many layers with little accountability. Somehow those in charge of change don't know how to energize the system and it is possible that there may be opposing forces from those who are charged with the real responsibility of monitoring the enormous system - like the congressional committees.
7
That's kind of the problem with bureaucracy in general, isn't it? I can almost feel it when I go to a local government office or even a bank.
3
It has been said that the greatest force in the universe is sheer bureaucratic inertia.
Free the veterans from the Veterans Administration. Give them excellent medical insurance that they can used at any healthcare facility in America. Make the VA compete with the best medical centers in America. Only then will the VA improve.
28
I will stand alongside of you and give you strength dude let's do it I'll do what it takes just let me know
Another sure way to fleece the taxpayers. Have you been to a private doctor lately? Hold on to your wallet if you go.
I’m the membership manager of a museum. If I ignored members and created a false paper trail for my boss to cover that I didn’t handle complaints from members, I would be fired.
VA employees not only created a false paper trail, but they did it to people who need to see a doctor. And they did it to people who’ve defended the rest of us. I don’t see why these execs still have jobs.
(I sure wish I had put in my civil service application when I was in my 20s. Apparently I could have coasted to a cushy retirement with no sweat.)
VA employees not only created a false paper trail, but they did it to people who need to see a doctor. And they did it to people who’ve defended the rest of us. I don’t see why these execs still have jobs.
(I sure wish I had put in my civil service application when I was in my 20s. Apparently I could have coasted to a cushy retirement with no sweat.)
18
The VA scandal was just another symptom of a healthcare system crumbling under expectations that exceed resources being devoted to actual patient care. (Plenty of resources go into healthcare these days, but most are pocketed by business people.) In this culture of worshipping numbers without really understanding them, everyone from schedulers to physicians are being made to focus on faulty performance metrics rather than do their jobs, just so some mid-level MBA can report to a higher-level MBA that measurable "progress" is being made. Gaming the system will continue to be inevitable and widespread until there is real healthcare reform making something other than corporate profits a true priority.
17
m, when you say that most healthcare dollars are pocketed by business, I'm not clear on where you mean. Hospitals are going out of business all over NYC and around the nations. It's a very tough business with thin margins. Health insurers seem fat and unresponsive, but their margins aren't different than most businesses. Ranting is fine, I get that, but compassion without honesty is just cynicism.
The VA represents a wasteful anachronism and it can be no surprise at the indifference of VA leadership due to the stifling bureaucracy, and mindless devotion to chain of command, inherent in what is really to its core a military organization.
6
"Few People Lost Jobs With V.A. in Scandal"
Of course they didn't. The people who really run the V.A. hospitals are members of the American Federation of Government Employees. They are responsible for pretty much everything including appointment scheduling. That vast majority are not veterans. They are only there for the huge check and benefits packages that they get. It is close to impossible to fire one of them because the union will strike the hospital if one of their members is fired.
Of course they didn't. The people who really run the V.A. hospitals are members of the American Federation of Government Employees. They are responsible for pretty much everything including appointment scheduling. That vast majority are not veterans. They are only there for the huge check and benefits packages that they get. It is close to impossible to fire one of them because the union will strike the hospital if one of their members is fired.
14
Actually the union can't strike. They just push for a review system so convoluted that no one can get through. Certain administrations facilitate this.
8
How about firing the congressmen who are responsible for not adequately funding the VA?
38
This is spot on. Accountability is great but the VA is paying less than half the salaries of neighboring hospitals. Using commercial practices for accountability also demands pay at market rates.
10
VA funding has exploded since 2002. Regardless, how is it that families and corporations are able to get more results out of less resources, but Big Government can only manage less results from more resources?
So more money spent on our bloated military system then?
I worked in the VA a number of years ago. The biggest problem in the VA system was the incompetent management and its impact on staff morale and patient satisfaction. Management within the VA created an unnecessarily authoritarian environment. This authoritarian approach to leadership resulted in a lot of mediocre managers hiding behind their title and lording power, rather than creating effective work environments. A narrow focus on "productivity" blinded unimaginative leaders to the nature of genuinely effective and innovative work settings, which is what the VA desperately needs. Staff were unhappy and over-worked, and this was evident to vets who were coming to the VA for their care, surely seeking a healthy environment in which to receive that care. I can honestly say now that I would leave my profession of 25 years before I would return to the VA. While I loved the vets, the VA was a place I found impossible to adjust to. I miss the vets every day, but never the VA.
45
I am a full time VA physician at the VA and have been for over 20 years. Tintin has absolutely nailed the problem!! There are many good and caring people working at the VA. The VA functions because of these overworked and caring people and despite the administrators.
15
Frontline staff I knew at the VA were hardworking and dedicated. But they were often being accused of not working enough by their own administrators, and then given productivity goals that were not realistic for the clinical care environment and were not attuned to the needs of the vets. The result was a very talented work force that was depressed, frustrated, and stressed. I knew a lot of colleagues who were on anti-depressants and in therapy due to work strain. Many of them lost marriages and relationships. Meanwhile, they were trying to fill a position in which they could assist often traumatized vets who needed a great deal of positive support and energy to heal. There was also the broader impact on morale that came from accusations from elected officials who always seemed to want to grandstand at the expense of the agency, which is not a constructive approach to change. Yes, the VA is in desperate need of a transformation. The way to get there is not through punitive, sweeping accusations from elected officials who never worked in a VA or in healthcare. There is a desperate need for reform of VA healthcare in order to best support the staff and in order to best serve the vets. I don't see McDonald as the kind of reformer and visionary that is needed. The VA has the potential to be America's best health system. But for that to happen there will need to be a willingness and courage for profound innovation.
1
The solution is obvious. Supply veterans with good health insurance and abolish the VA. It is a dinosaur and there is no practical way to fix it.
21
I agree it is obviously too broken to fix. However, like most issues in this country there are constituencies, such as employees, suppliers, and communities with facilities that will fight the change tooth nail. Same reason nothing can get done anymore.
1
What kind of a Country is this anyway? While the IRS is writing tax rebate checks for illegals the VA is giving bonuses to pencil pushers for how many claims they can reject for combat veterans! How many of those vets died while they were waiting for help? Never mind losing their jobs......they should be criminally charged with manslaughter.
20
With all the recent conflicts the VA in under lots of pressure to handle loads of requests from our vets. This on top of older vets who also depend on the VA for medical help and more. I'm more concerned that not one financial executive was, at the least, held accountable for the fiscal problems caused by their cavalier disregard for dangerous monetary practices. Too big to take legal action is glaringly underhanded.
5
Perhaps because the people truly responsible for this mess are too high up the political food chain to be fired? The mistreatment of veterans is not an invention of midlevel bureaucrats. Veteran issues are consistently ignored by the same politicians who milk them on the campaign trail for cheap 'patriotism' points.
37
I started at the VA at the beginning of the Vietnam War. Congressmen, mainly Republicans, from that point onward, have resisted funding the VA adequately to treat the huge number of soldiers they were very willing to send to war, and they have never even tried to catch up. Unfortunately, from Vietnam onward, due to advances in medical science, many, many more soldiers manage to survive their wounds instead of conveniently dying on the battlefield. But the American public and the Congress do not want to admit this and have very consistently refused to fund post-war care at anything approaching the level needed. This is a crime that can be laid at the feet of Congress. The American public has finally caught on, regardless of the patriotic rhetoric that spews forth from politicians, and refuses to endorse any more wars.
1
As a former Fed. employee, I can attest that it's almost impossible to get fired from civil service. The system is rotten through and through. Some things never change.
23
The VA is and always has been out of control. Do nothing and get paid. There is lots of fraudulent claims gumming up the system and the VA like the IRS needs more money. The trouble is things like hospitals are way over budget and only the taxpayer pays the price. I have a bad heart and failed my over 40 physical along with having to go before a medical board to remain on active duty. My initials claims all denied. There are some dedicated individuals that work at the VA but here is lot of deadwood. The VA like to reject claims. How long did Agent Orange adjudication take. Most of us Vietnam vets are dead and that means no compensation. I don' t have all the answers but a few lost pensions and criminal charges will go a long way to motivating the useless ones that fail to perform in a satisfactory manner
11
As a patient, among my VA caregivers I've had a quack or two, a sadist, a rogue anesthesiologist and have dealt with any number of functionaries too bored to bother. As a volunteer I've seen guys my age ('Nam vets) denied claims, run around in circles and kicked to the curb after being thrown under the bus. I've seen it happen to the younger ones too. For the most part the medical staff is caring, but I've had 5 new primary care doctors in the past year or so, never meeting most of them. On the other hand, administrative turnover is practically nil, and lord do they preen. The CYA culture still thrives. It perhaps is improving, incrementally, but has a long way to go. What's sad is that it's no worse than medical care in general, perhaps better given the attention to and expertise in military related health problems. It's still "deny first, make excuses later" for the most part. But when I tell them I have a problem, they generally get me in fairly quickly.
4
3 people? Please tell me you are joking.
6
How do you spell bloated bureaucracy?: VETERANS AFFAIRS
7
People who believe that government can solve problems by building expensive new infrastructure need to explain why such funds will not be mostly wasted, in view of bridges to nowhere, high-speed trains that are not high speed, Davis Bacon wage bloat, and inefficiency and unaccountability like what we continue to see at the Veterans Administration, even after the president has promised for over 4 years to fix it.
7
Not sure that anyone should have been fired over this. Suspensions, demotions seems about right. They manipulated paperwork. It's not like anyone would have gotten treated faster had they not done it. The real problem is that the VA is chronically understaffed, and as much as we claim to honor our vets, no one wants to pay more for their care. It's like the teachers in Atlanta. No way should they be facing jail time for changing answers on tests. Ordinary workers are getting squeezed from all sides. It could be any one of us next. The pattern is all too familiar. Budget cuts mean fewer on staff. Then management sets impossible metrics and brooks no opposition or even discussion about how to meet them. Just do more with less. So you either do the job badly or make it look like you are meeting the metric on paper. Not sure which is worse.
Meanwhile, the people who are evading taxes and demonizing public sector workers sit on their high horse and ask why the schools and the government can't do anything right. It's disgusting.
Meanwhile, the people who are evading taxes and demonizing public sector workers sit on their high horse and ask why the schools and the government can't do anything right. It's disgusting.
35
Agarre
Absolutely spot on.
Absolutely spot on.
5
Instead of carrying water for these crooks and complaining about budget cuts - the first refuge of a bloated government bureaucracy - perhaps you'd consider firing them.
Then you can ask for more money.
These crooks should be fired, their pensions revoked, and their precious union should be broken up.
Then you can ask for more money.
These crooks should be fired, their pensions revoked, and their precious union should be broken up.
6
This is sickening to hear this. What are we doing to our vets is sickening how can we call ourselves Americans when we don't even take care of our soldiers we send to fight our wars. I am ashamed to be an American right now. This is embarrassing.
5
Now haw many WHISTLEBLOWERS suffered firing - or worse (Think: At least the threat of criminal charges) - over this mess? I'd bet it's a heck of a lot more than three.
43
Why isn't Robert McDonald expressing more outrage? It's discouraging that he exaggerated the number of people fired. I hope he supports Congressional efforts to make it easier to fire people. The VA also overstated its new policy allowing veterans to get health care outside the VA -- they made it sound way more generous than it actually is. Veterans deserve better.
16
I am an unwavering Obama supporter and staunch opponent of the Iraq war, but the V.A. scandal is unconscionable. Patriotic men and women are sent to do our government's dirty work, and they are treated inhumanely upon their return. These are people in need, being responsible citizens, and seeking help. To be treated in such a manner, and then to cover it up is low, and Obama had a duty to clean house and keep the V.A. accountable.
42
That's more than lost their jobs at HHS for the botched rollout, or at the IRS for targeting conservatives, or at the Secret Service for letting the intruder into the White House. As blogger Glenn Reynolds says, "It's Potemkin villages all the way down." It is a fake, a simulacrum of a government responsible to the public it serves.
12
Fired from their jobs? These people need to be charged criminally and prosecuted for their crimes against the people. These are violations of professional ethics of the highest degree. This dissonance shows that there is still no effective management at the VA, and that the head does not know, and does not control what the body does. That means the old cancerous culture and management in still in place, and will again commit the same crimes.
25
The higher the government bureaucrat, the more their incompetence is accepted. The Phoenix hospital director (Sharon Helman) actually fired, took a $14,000 trip to Disney with her family paid for by a contractor. Shows how clueless and corrupt senior leadership is. I have worked for the Feds for 28 years. On average we are forced to watch a video every three months explaining that you are not to do this. I guess no one made sure she saw the video and signed off on it. In my agency, I saw a whistle blowers complaint to the Dept. Of Defense Inspector Generals Office be turned over the head of the Agency, with the persons name on it. The leaders of the agency went after the whistle blower full throttle. After 5 years of investigation, the director was allowed to retire and his assistant was transferred to another Senior Executive Service position.
51
Making government bureaucrats accountable? What will Republicans think of next?
12
Is this Obama's payoff to his union cronies?