The United States has long allowed client states like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Israel to spread despotism and strife throughout the region just so they can stay on top. This was seen in their mutual support for the bloody coup in Egypt as well as repeated slaughter in Gaza and now Yemen. America will continue to face disasters until their baleful influence and wealthy lobbies are curtailed.
2
Amazing, weapons are delivered to Israel and Saudi Arabia from the US everyday, yet the US doesn't do anything. What don't the Iranians get? Who really manages and enables (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop, Raytheon) the violence in the Middle East? Get onboard, the US Navy sales team has arrived.
3
Isn't it interesting how Saudi Arabia is the one "ally" that we have never tried to convert--to democracy, Women's Rights, a more transparent society, etc? As the U.S. becomes more and more self-dependent for oil--especially with the greater usage of Renewables--perhaps the Saudi's few decades in the sun will suffer a dusk period. Let's hope so.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1
Not to sound crass but it seems like it's a losing battle to try and bring stability and/or democracy to the Middle East at times. The United States I feel like should gradually drawn down it's intervention attitudes in the region since it's obviously not improving the situation on the ground.
Saudi's have contributed significant amounts to Hilary and they expect to get a pass on all their doings. Saudis main concern is to lose their assets in the east and south of Yemen, namely Al-Qaeda training camps paid by house of Saud to train fighters for Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Al-Shabab, Boko-Haram, Libyan and other fanatics. Houtis advance in those regions can expose Saudi's hand and their $4 billion annual investment in terrorist training.
Have the Saudi's no shame nor humility nor honor at long last?
The royal theocratic fossil fuel Saudi Sunni Muslim Arab autocrats bred Osama Bin Laden, al Qaeda, ISIS/ISIL, aL Nusra Front, AQAP, Khorasan and 15 of the 19 9/11/01 hijackers. There are 24 million Yemeni and 35% are Shia Muslim Houthi. There are 27 million Saudi citizens with 10-25 % being Shia Muslims. The American origin of Saudi arms will be duly noted and remembered among all Arabs.
The most implacable motivated foes of the Sunni Muslim Arab extremists are Shia Muslim Arabs in Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Along with Shia Muslim Persians in Iran and Sunni Muslim Kurds everywhere. The Saudi's are losers whose actions harm American interests and are contrary to American values.
The royal theocratic fossil fuel Saudi Sunni Muslim Arab autocrats bred Osama Bin Laden, al Qaeda, ISIS/ISIL, aL Nusra Front, AQAP, Khorasan and 15 of the 19 9/11/01 hijackers. There are 24 million Yemeni and 35% are Shia Muslim Houthi. There are 27 million Saudi citizens with 10-25 % being Shia Muslims. The American origin of Saudi arms will be duly noted and remembered among all Arabs.
The most implacable motivated foes of the Sunni Muslim Arab extremists are Shia Muslim Arabs in Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Along with Shia Muslim Persians in Iran and Sunni Muslim Kurds everywhere. The Saudi's are losers whose actions harm American interests and are contrary to American values.
April 23., 2015
On the plus side - this fight is for the major Muslims powers to give cause for aid, everyone is best to keep on the side and give a kick there and there when so is more the humane interest for everyone on Earth's survivial. So limits have limits and then case by case the world is not excluded from the Reformation of Islam and sorting out the debacle of gross failures to govern in a world that transparent on the world media. As the migrants are desparate to live in a world where tolerance is light and everyone awaits the blooding to eventually run dry - sooner the better - but limits are the arts of war and we all know histoyr's deals and stealth effects....
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
On the plus side - this fight is for the major Muslims powers to give cause for aid, everyone is best to keep on the side and give a kick there and there when so is more the humane interest for everyone on Earth's survivial. So limits have limits and then case by case the world is not excluded from the Reformation of Islam and sorting out the debacle of gross failures to govern in a world that transparent on the world media. As the migrants are desparate to live in a world where tolerance is light and everyone awaits the blooding to eventually run dry - sooner the better - but limits are the arts of war and we all know histoyr's deals and stealth effects....
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
1
Saudi Arabia spend $80 billion last year purchasing American weapons making it the 4th highest defense spender after US, China and Russia. I highly highly doubt a few thousand people with rifles kicking out a Saudi sponsored dictator is a threat to Saudi Arabia. I think the 30 years old Prince Defense Minister is just trying to get more street cred because his only military experience so far is a portrait of him on horseback.
4
A few thousand or more people with rifles and other small arms survived and in cases held back allied forces which included a country with a $600 billion annual defense budget (plus black box budget). Was that Afghanistan or Iraq or both?
We need to give credit to the Saudis for coming up with a creative war euphemism and oxymoron with this phrase:
" "the Saudis are now calling it “Renewal of Hope” "
Here the word 'hope' stands in for the word 'bombing'.
As part of the U.S.'s blundering Middle East foreign policy, it is good that we are allowing the Saudis to do our killing for us, and for them to get blamed for being loose cannons in the never-ending strategic conflicts between the majority-Sunni Arab countries and the various Arab Shia nations, plus Iran.
By us backing both sides of these conflicts depending on which theater of war it is in, our military-industrial complex gets to participate to the fullest extent possible, allowing it to be a major Washington, DC player, hence get fully funded at the expense of social policy funding.
We will know when we have reached our Middle East foreign policy intervention limits when one set of our Sunni Spec-Ops spooks kills another set of our Shia Spec-Ops spooks in some God-forsaken mountainous or desert wasteland. Of course, we will never hear about it directly except through an anonymous military source concerned that our left hand doesn't know what our right hand is doing over there. Come to think of it, what are we doing over there? Is this about oil, Israel, and world domination, again?
1
This will not be a quick "in and out" war as the Gulf War was. For that reason, it's good to see the Saudi "Princes" have decided that hanging out in the Hilton lobby won't work this time around, waiting for the Americans to do all the heavy lifting. It's going to be a long war and has the potential of consuming more than just Saudi treasure.
This must be unsettling to a family that has spent much of its time "Gulfstreaming" about the world-time to suddenly have to stay home and gets things done. Before it's over, who knows, women might even be permitted to drive cars.
This must be unsettling to a family that has spent much of its time "Gulfstreaming" about the world-time to suddenly have to stay home and gets things done. Before it's over, who knows, women might even be permitted to drive cars.
2
A commenter insists that all the US needs is a "strategy" and the chaos will disappear:
"The result of no strategy is chaos."
Tell you what: YOU pick a strategy, any strategy, and then explain to us how that strategy would end the chaos. One rule, though: The strategy you pick can't involve the US sending ground troops to Yemen, unless you or your children will be in the first wave of troops to hit the beach.
"The result of no strategy is chaos."
Tell you what: YOU pick a strategy, any strategy, and then explain to us how that strategy would end the chaos. One rule, though: The strategy you pick can't involve the US sending ground troops to Yemen, unless you or your children will be in the first wave of troops to hit the beach.
1
Mark Thomason writes:
"Bush and his hawks destroyed the US position in the Middle East with his foolhardy attack on Iraq, aka fantasy WMD."
At the time, Israel persuaded the US that Saddam Hussein was an existential threat to Israel. We got rid of him, and now (according to Dexter Filkins, a former NYT writer in a recent New Yorker article) most ISIS commanders are former generals or colonels from Saddam's army (thanks, Paul Bremer).
Israel didn't like Moammar Qaddafi either, and so we got rid of him too. How's that working out -- is Libya nice and stable now, no threat to Israel?
And now Syria is in the cross-hairs. It seems that Assad is as bad a guy as Saddam Hussein and Moammar Qaddafi, and that all we need to do is get rid of him and the Middle East will at long last be stable. In reality, of course, ISIS would swoop in to fill the void, and the additional strength it acquires by doing so would help it to solidify its position in other places too, such as Iraq.
Then Israel will be surrounded by ISIS and/or chaos on nearly all sides: Syria to the north, Iraq to the east, Libya to the west. Just think how secure Israel will feel then.
Maybe Israel will be better off -- and for sure we here in the US will be better off -- if we just stay out of these Middle East wars, even if the current chaos is the result of our previous meddling.
"Bush and his hawks destroyed the US position in the Middle East with his foolhardy attack on Iraq, aka fantasy WMD."
At the time, Israel persuaded the US that Saddam Hussein was an existential threat to Israel. We got rid of him, and now (according to Dexter Filkins, a former NYT writer in a recent New Yorker article) most ISIS commanders are former generals or colonels from Saddam's army (thanks, Paul Bremer).
Israel didn't like Moammar Qaddafi either, and so we got rid of him too. How's that working out -- is Libya nice and stable now, no threat to Israel?
And now Syria is in the cross-hairs. It seems that Assad is as bad a guy as Saddam Hussein and Moammar Qaddafi, and that all we need to do is get rid of him and the Middle East will at long last be stable. In reality, of course, ISIS would swoop in to fill the void, and the additional strength it acquires by doing so would help it to solidify its position in other places too, such as Iraq.
Then Israel will be surrounded by ISIS and/or chaos on nearly all sides: Syria to the north, Iraq to the east, Libya to the west. Just think how secure Israel will feel then.
Maybe Israel will be better off -- and for sure we here in the US will be better off -- if we just stay out of these Middle East wars, even if the current chaos is the result of our previous meddling.
1
"So we cannot have [the Saudis fail to maintain regional stability]. Thats the crude reality."
"Crude reality" --- nice pun.
Perish the thought (not), but if the Saudis show themselves to be a bunch of military stumblebums, the present disdain for a solution suggested by Henry Kissinger four decades ago eventually may dissipate here in the US. During the Arab oil embargo in late 1973, Kissinger said the US would do whatever it takes to ensure the US' supply of oil from the Middle East. "Whatever it takes" wasn't detailed, but Kissinger made clear enough that it meant "whatever it takes." I think Saudi Arabia's rulers got that message, loud and clear.
I remember thinking Kissinger was suggesting something abhorrent: forcing a sovereign nation to do the bidding of the US. But then I thought: What, other than an accident of geography, entitles the Saudi Arabian sheiks to all that oil and the power that goes with it?
Nothing, really, other than a tacit promise to keep selling oil to the US and Europe, and to maintain stability in the region so that can continue.
Maintaining stability is what the Saudis are trying to do now. If they do it to the US' satisfaction, things can continue as they have for decades. But if the US ever concludes that the Saudis can't uphold their part of the bargain, the US may well start handling the stability-maintenance duties. If and when that happens, the US probably will wonder exactly why we need to keep these Saudi princes around.
"Crude reality" --- nice pun.
Perish the thought (not), but if the Saudis show themselves to be a bunch of military stumblebums, the present disdain for a solution suggested by Henry Kissinger four decades ago eventually may dissipate here in the US. During the Arab oil embargo in late 1973, Kissinger said the US would do whatever it takes to ensure the US' supply of oil from the Middle East. "Whatever it takes" wasn't detailed, but Kissinger made clear enough that it meant "whatever it takes." I think Saudi Arabia's rulers got that message, loud and clear.
I remember thinking Kissinger was suggesting something abhorrent: forcing a sovereign nation to do the bidding of the US. But then I thought: What, other than an accident of geography, entitles the Saudi Arabian sheiks to all that oil and the power that goes with it?
Nothing, really, other than a tacit promise to keep selling oil to the US and Europe, and to maintain stability in the region so that can continue.
Maintaining stability is what the Saudis are trying to do now. If they do it to the US' satisfaction, things can continue as they have for decades. But if the US ever concludes that the Saudis can't uphold their part of the bargain, the US may well start handling the stability-maintenance duties. If and when that happens, the US probably will wonder exactly why we need to keep these Saudi princes around.
Strategy? What Strategy? Hope, as in 'I hope all the bad things that are or might happen will stop' is NOT a strategy.
"Whatever is going on in Yemen is NOT good! It's not good for stability in the region; it's not good for the United States; and its has the very real potential of not being good for the world."
Au contraire.
Except for the human suffering (which probably has been worsened, or at best is about the same, since Saudi Arabia intervened), the outcome of this struggle for power in Yemen will make no difference whatsoever to the region, the US or the world. It will affect us here in the US about as much as a civil war in, say, Angola.
Au contraire.
Except for the human suffering (which probably has been worsened, or at best is about the same, since Saudi Arabia intervened), the outcome of this struggle for power in Yemen will make no difference whatsoever to the region, the US or the world. It will affect us here in the US about as much as a civil war in, say, Angola.
1
Looked at a map lately?
"an Iranian supply convoy heading there..."
What route do you think that convoy is taking?
Seriously: look at a map. Try to imagine that "convoy's" route. Then try to imagine that the Saudi and US military people haven't thought about that too, and taken steps to block that "convoy."
After you've done all that thinking, you may understand just why the US has presented no evidence whatsoever that Iran is supplying weapons to the Houthis.
"an Iranian supply convoy heading there..."
What route do you think that convoy is taking?
Seriously: look at a map. Try to imagine that "convoy's" route. Then try to imagine that the Saudi and US military people haven't thought about that too, and taken steps to block that "convoy."
After you've done all that thinking, you may understand just why the US has presented no evidence whatsoever that Iran is supplying weapons to the Houthis.
1
Unfortunately the NY Times keeps calling Hadi Yemen's legitimate president. Given that he resigned and doesn't control anything in the country that is a very dubious statement under international law. One may not like the Houthi's, but they have more claim to legitimacy than Hadi. I don't believe we should buy the Saudi propaganda trick of calling Hadi legitimate.
One of the reasons the Houthi's rose up against Hadi was that they had the impression that he supported Al Qaeda and their campaign to incite hatred against Shiites among Yemen's Sunni's. That sounds to me like a rather good reason.
One of the reasons the Houthi's rose up against Hadi was that they had the impression that he supported Al Qaeda and their campaign to incite hatred against Shiites among Yemen's Sunni's. That sounds to me like a rather good reason.
2
It's all Bush/Cheney's fault:
"And the author of this debacle, Dick Cheney, is given a voice to blame the President. It's outrageous!"
I have no love for Cheney or Bush, but it's worth noting that Obama has been in office for over 6 years now. At some point...
"And the author of this debacle, Dick Cheney, is given a voice to blame the President. It's outrageous!"
I have no love for Cheney or Bush, but it's worth noting that Obama has been in office for over 6 years now. At some point...
A commenter speculates:
"Maybe the U.S. has told Iran that supplying arms to the Houthi will impair the nuclear negotiations."
Maybe so. But what if Iran replied: "We're not?"
The next logical step would be for the US to say "Yes, you are. We have evidence." Do you suppose the US has said that? If so, can you think of any reason why the US hasn't shared that evidence with the rest of us?
"Maybe the U.S. has told Iran that supplying arms to the Houthi will impair the nuclear negotiations."
Maybe so. But what if Iran replied: "We're not?"
The next logical step would be for the US to say "Yes, you are. We have evidence." Do you suppose the US has said that? If so, can you think of any reason why the US hasn't shared that evidence with the rest of us?
1
The ides that "Saudi resolve" is a hamper to US strategy in yemen is ar best misleading. The saudi interets in Yemen are sectariann in that president Hadi is a Sunni tribe based leader facing dethronemnet from a Houthi tribe that are Sitte. By being Shiite they aytomaticallt become Iranian and therein lies the fallacy of the US policy and strategy in Yemen.
Otherwise how on earth could a hereditary autocratic Monarchy force democracy on a fractious nation as Yemen? The roots of the crisis are perhaps forgotten but it was the failure by the central administration to implement agreements entered into that led to the Houthi rebellion.Talks of Iranian involvement are more wishful thinking than ant hard faced eveidence since the Yemenis are well known for their national patriotism.
Otherwise how on earth could a hereditary autocratic Monarchy force democracy on a fractious nation as Yemen? The roots of the crisis are perhaps forgotten but it was the failure by the central administration to implement agreements entered into that led to the Houthi rebellion.Talks of Iranian involvement are more wishful thinking than ant hard faced eveidence since the Yemenis are well known for their national patriotism.
reminds us again:
how is it that Saudi Arabia avoids being listed as a State Sponsor of Terrorism?
thought so
thank you anyway
Message to world leaders on behalf of women and children: stop bombing and start talking.
The Saudis are using the Israeli play book indiscriminant bombing and claiming Iran is behind it all. This has been shown to be false. The fighting indicates that the Saudis favor a major al Qaeda presence in Yemen. The US continues to try to play the cynical power politics game supporting the wretched Saudi regime.
3
The headline begs the issue and that is that the US has no strategy. The result of no strategy is chaos.
Still, if chaos is the desired result, then the strategy might just be to have no strategy at all; everything might be proceeding as planned after all.
Still, if chaos is the desired result, then the strategy might just be to have no strategy at all; everything might be proceeding as planned after all.
2
Another point in Yemen's history by MAYSAA SHUJA AL-DEEN. It is worth reading and pondering to obtain some more perspective.
It is rather complex and there is enough of a blame to go around, but our goal should be to reduce the amount of suffering on the Yemeni people.
http://bit.ly/wizarat_Yemen102
It is rather complex and there is enough of a blame to go around, but our goal should be to reduce the amount of suffering on the Yemeni people.
http://bit.ly/wizarat_Yemen102
2
the peoples of the Middle East peace and stability complain to assume responsability for global security and peace and progress of human rights
Long live the Houthi's.
4
I'd like to hope that there's a LOT of diplomacy going on behind the scenes here. Maybe the U.S. has told Iran that supplying arms to the Houthi will impair the nuclear negotiations. Maybe King Salman has made/can make a deal to halt bombing in Yemen in exchange for Iran halting support for the Houthis. Maybe the U.S. has told King Salman that the U.S. won't provide logistic support for RSAF operations in Yemen. Maybe Egypt would supply humanitarian aid to Yemen as part of a deal which would replace supposed Iranian aid there. (Egypt could deliver such aid to the port of Hudaydah, not Aden. Egypt used that port in the Yemeni Civil War of 1962-1967.)
A cease fire will only benefit the Houthis and Iran. The Houthis started this one. Why push for a cease fire until they are defeated?
1
Because it really doesn't matter who wins. Both sides are losers as long as they are bombing and killing each other. Who cares who started it? What does defeat mean, if all it means is more suffering and more resentment and revenge to last more lifetimes? All these ridiculous wars to serve only the puny and pointless egos of men to show whoever who's boss. To the people on the ground, to the people this war should be about, it does not matter who governs them. There must be a diplomatic solution that gives to both sides, and both sides must forgive and forget and get on with the difficult job of governing a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country, get on with what really matters in life, which is at heart the raising of children to be good people, and the tending of the land and the economy, instead of these petty and ruinous games of war until one side or the other is "defeated."
The Bush Administration, the Saud family's dear friends and long-time allies, took us to war for false reasons. We eliminated the chief rival of the Saud's and their Wahhabi world view, Saddam Hussein, a religious "moderate". As predicted, this has destabilized the region. We are looking at Sunni and Shiite sponsored proxy-wars that show little promise of being restrained. The Sauds' seem determined now to openly pursue some kind of "final show-down" with their adversaries.
And the author of this debacle, Dick Cheney, is given a voice to blame the President. It's outrageous! It's time for history to judge them, as they use to say.
And the author of this debacle, Dick Cheney, is given a voice to blame the President. It's outrageous! It's time for history to judge them, as they use to say.
2
Another example that the Illegal Iraq war based lies. History and science tells us that for every action there is a reaction and those actions and reactions have an indefinite shelf life.
2
The Obama Doctrine: Let the Mideast Fight Its Own Wars
2
Can't tell whether you think that's a good Doctrine or a bad Doctrine. The opposite "Doctrine," of course, would be for the US to say "We just can't have wars in the Middle East," and, accordingly, to intervene in every Middle East war to end it. That's more or less been our "strategy" for quite some time now, and it doesn't seem to have reduced war in the Middle East. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Imagine Saudi Arabia taking the lead in the fight against terrorism.
That's what happens when America has a wimpy president.
That's what happens when America has a wimpy president.
1
I hear the Saudi Arabian government is accepting foreign volunteers to fight in Yemen. Are you available?
There is no political solution for this, but rather a military one. One side will pay the price and the other will lose. Simple!!
1
End of the Empire. USA are living now what UK and France lived in the fifties. Georges W. Bush's stupid initiative in 2003 has accelerated the process in exploding Iraq which gave unexpected power to Iran and Shia in the Middle east and paved the way for Sunnit terrorists. Just a silly phase to go through... (I hope).
Cheers
Cheers
2
Britain and France destroyed their positions in the Middle East with their foolhardy attack on Egypt, aka Suez Canal attack. It took a few years to play out, but it was all downhill with no hope.
Bush and his hawks destroyed the US position in the Middle East with his foolhardy attack on Iraq, aka fantasy WMD. It will take a few years to play out, but it is all downhill from here with no hope.
Bush and his hawks destroyed the US position in the Middle East with his foolhardy attack on Iraq, aka fantasy WMD. It will take a few years to play out, but it is all downhill from here with no hope.
NYT headline " Saudi Resolve on Yemen Reflects Limits of U.S. Strategy."
Not entirely correct.
Saudi action on Yemen shows how Middle Eastern America's foreign policy has gone haywire post 9/11 and invasion of Iraq. Foggy Bottom's old policy playbook for the region became obsolete.
One thing for sure. When a superpower like the US attempts to make changes -even marginal ones - in foreign policy involving a cluster of countries, the impact is felt worldwide.
European allies are feeling the (negative) impact of hundred of thousands refugees from the Middle East wars seeking safety in their soil. America's old military-economic alliance with Saudi Arabia and Israel are under severe stress.
What comes next in the Middle East is anyone guess. Peace and prosperity, however, are more elusive than ever.
Not entirely correct.
Saudi action on Yemen shows how Middle Eastern America's foreign policy has gone haywire post 9/11 and invasion of Iraq. Foggy Bottom's old policy playbook for the region became obsolete.
One thing for sure. When a superpower like the US attempts to make changes -even marginal ones - in foreign policy involving a cluster of countries, the impact is felt worldwide.
European allies are feeling the (negative) impact of hundred of thousands refugees from the Middle East wars seeking safety in their soil. America's old military-economic alliance with Saudi Arabia and Israel are under severe stress.
What comes next in the Middle East is anyone guess. Peace and prosperity, however, are more elusive than ever.
1
The key point is that there is MONEY to be made.
2
The Saudis are a monarchy that rules like a dictatorship. The few countries that respect them do so because Mecca and Medina (holy places of Islam) are in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis take advantage of this. Even though Saudis are the aggressors in Yemen, they keep asking for countries like Pakistan to help their territorial sanctity, even though the Yemenis have not attacked the Saudis and have made no advances towards Saudi territory. This drama by the Saudis is only to keep the support of the Sunni Muslim countries.
The Saudis should remember that the caretakers of Mecca and Medina have changed many times in Islamic history. The Saudis are no longer fit to be the moral caretakers of these Islamic holy sites because they are the aggressors and they are the trouble makers, they are constantly dividing the rift between Shiites and the Sunnis.
What do the Saudis have? The USA on its side and money. Nothing more! It is only a matter of time when they will bite more then they can chew. And, the Saudis have started biting now. Luckily for them (as of now) the Yemenis they are bombing do not have weapons to fight back but it is one thing to bomb someone today and another to fight a guerrilla war over ten years. We in the USA have certainly had enough opportunity to learn this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.
The Saudis should remember that the caretakers of Mecca and Medina have changed many times in Islamic history. The Saudis are no longer fit to be the moral caretakers of these Islamic holy sites because they are the aggressors and they are the trouble makers, they are constantly dividing the rift between Shiites and the Sunnis.
What do the Saudis have? The USA on its side and money. Nothing more! It is only a matter of time when they will bite more then they can chew. And, the Saudis have started biting now. Luckily for them (as of now) the Yemenis they are bombing do not have weapons to fight back but it is one thing to bomb someone today and another to fight a guerrilla war over ten years. We in the USA have certainly had enough opportunity to learn this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.
8
creating a humanitarian crisis is part of the Saudi strategy?
Saudis vs Iran. Sunnis vs Shias. How long can the world take this?
take pride in this, Saudi Arabia.
“Once your clients have a quasi-independent military capacity, you lose some control over them,” said F. Gregory Gause III, a Middle East specialist at Texas A&M University’s Bush School of Government and Public Service.
Saudis vs Iran. Sunnis vs Shias. How long can the world take this?
take pride in this, Saudi Arabia.
“Once your clients have a quasi-independent military capacity, you lose some control over them,” said F. Gregory Gause III, a Middle East specialist at Texas A&M University’s Bush School of Government and Public Service.
1
Under no circumstances should our government become embroiled in the current civil war in Yemen. Nor should our government be distracted from the crucial task of concluding the pending nuclear agreement with Iran by becoming involved in Yemen at Saudi Arabia's behest, which in the final analysis what Saudi Arabia and its allies are continuously trying to do.
It should be clear now that Saudi Arabia is the source of most of the current instability that plagues the Middle East, including the civil war in Syria, the intervention in Bahrain and the engineered coup against a democratically elected government in Egypt.
All of this instability is derived from Saudi Arabia's fear of and opposition to any form of democracy in any part of the Middle East, which it views as a threat to its authoritarian regime.
Its alliance with Saudi Arabia notwithstanding, our government should heed Iran's call for a cease fire in Yemen. It should firmly and unambiguously demand of Saudi Arabia to halt all its military actions and air raids in Yemen, which have, for the most part, caused untold death and destruction to innocent civilians.
Yemen should then be helped to determine its own destiny without outside interference.
It should be clear now that Saudi Arabia is the source of most of the current instability that plagues the Middle East, including the civil war in Syria, the intervention in Bahrain and the engineered coup against a democratically elected government in Egypt.
All of this instability is derived from Saudi Arabia's fear of and opposition to any form of democracy in any part of the Middle East, which it views as a threat to its authoritarian regime.
Its alliance with Saudi Arabia notwithstanding, our government should heed Iran's call for a cease fire in Yemen. It should firmly and unambiguously demand of Saudi Arabia to halt all its military actions and air raids in Yemen, which have, for the most part, caused untold death and destruction to innocent civilians.
Yemen should then be helped to determine its own destiny without outside interference.
10
Having read the Saudi briefings each day I think they made what they would do pretty clear. These new strikes are entirely consistent with what they said they would after the closure of the first phase. The problem here is that journalists are not themselves informed about what is going on and they spread false information. Then it's no surprise that it gets contradicted. What do these journalists do all day?
3
The US position is more nuanced than people are giving credit for. Increasing US warships in the Gulf is critical to peace in the region. If Iran wants to retaliate against the Saudis they wouldn't do it by attacking Yemen. They would block or mine the strait of Hormuz which would block all oil transport from the Persian Gulf. This would be catastrophic for the world economy ad lead to direct conflict between SA, UAE, Qatar etc against Iran. Iran may believe that they could hold off the Gulf countries and think a war might be in their interests.
US warships in the region and limited support for Saudi Arabia is ntendend to change Iran's calculation. It tells Iran that this can't be escalated because they can't win. It also allows us as an "ally" to put more pressure on SA to stop their campaign. International pressure from enemies like Iran and Russia doesn't work because they have no leverage and it would make the country look weak. Whereas pressure from your main backer out of the public spotlight is much more effective.
Obama's response to a chaotic Middle East is nuanced and well thought out. Unfortunately, nuance plays very poorly to our limited attention span.
US warships in the region and limited support for Saudi Arabia is ntendend to change Iran's calculation. It tells Iran that this can't be escalated because they can't win. It also allows us as an "ally" to put more pressure on SA to stop their campaign. International pressure from enemies like Iran and Russia doesn't work because they have no leverage and it would make the country look weak. Whereas pressure from your main backer out of the public spotlight is much more effective.
Obama's response to a chaotic Middle East is nuanced and well thought out. Unfortunately, nuance plays very poorly to our limited attention span.
1
"Increasing US warships in the Gulf is critical to peace in the region."
Yes, but not because Iran would mine the Gulf over this.
The US is separating the Saudis and Iranians, by getting between them.
The Saudis are blockading food and water, creating a humanitarian crisis. The US position in the middle will allow it to end the crisis in ways that will not be diplomatic victory for Iran.
Most of all, the US is in position to prevent all this from interfering with the nuclear deal by spinning up out of control. It may even further the nuclear deal, by reassuring the Saudis in return for their already announced but lukewarm support for the deal.
Yes, but not because Iran would mine the Gulf over this.
The US is separating the Saudis and Iranians, by getting between them.
The Saudis are blockading food and water, creating a humanitarian crisis. The US position in the middle will allow it to end the crisis in ways that will not be diplomatic victory for Iran.
Most of all, the US is in position to prevent all this from interfering with the nuclear deal by spinning up out of control. It may even further the nuclear deal, by reassuring the Saudis in return for their already announced but lukewarm support for the deal.
This is not about the difference of Sunni and Shia religious views that we get through the media. It is about Iran and Saudi Arabia ongoing hostilities to control the Middle East’s flow of energy. What stood between these two countries was Iraq, until the US invasion.
There is no middle ground here, both countries are wrong and all who intrude are just as wrong. Perhaps for the wrong reasons, but Pakistan is right not to get involved.
It is time we stop supporting any country in the world, including ours that uses aggression and direct interference to overthrow other governments. The US direct interference did not resolve anything in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or Ukraine but the loss of human lives.
The world needs to unite to stop supporting greedy countries and weapon suppliers that support revolutions, terrorists, war and invasion. It is time for America to move towards demanding political solutions and diplomacy to end all crisis that could spill over into other countries. Now days numerous countries, especially the US, have caused much suffering and many deaths. All policies and hidden agendas of direct interference needs eliminated before they escalate from regional to global war. This is my vision of a new world order.
There is no middle ground here, both countries are wrong and all who intrude are just as wrong. Perhaps for the wrong reasons, but Pakistan is right not to get involved.
It is time we stop supporting any country in the world, including ours that uses aggression and direct interference to overthrow other governments. The US direct interference did not resolve anything in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or Ukraine but the loss of human lives.
The world needs to unite to stop supporting greedy countries and weapon suppliers that support revolutions, terrorists, war and invasion. It is time for America to move towards demanding political solutions and diplomacy to end all crisis that could spill over into other countries. Now days numerous countries, especially the US, have caused much suffering and many deaths. All policies and hidden agendas of direct interference needs eliminated before they escalate from regional to global war. This is my vision of a new world order.
2
So far, it is hard to see any "U.S. strategy" in Yemen other than a knee-jerk on the ground obeisance to the Saudi monarchy as they attempt to use military force to reassert their control over Yemen and deny Iran a foothold on the Arabian peninsula. The Obama Administration did not hesitate to support this new undeclared war by immediately providing "logistical and intelligence support" to the Saudi-led air campaign. In recent days, the President has ordered boats on the water as part of a naval blockade to prevent Iranian resupply vessels from reaching the Houthi rebels now in control of the country. There is absolutely no strategy here. If President Obama is looking for one, he should start by removing all military assistance to the Saudis; support the U.N. in calling for an immediate ceasefire to be followed by negotiations; and restore the U.S. to its historic role as "an honest broker." He has a Nobel Peace Prize; it's time for him to earn it.
Calling "strategy" the habit of reacting timorously to events as they unfold whilst hoping for a white night (france-libya, russia-syria) atop destrier Obama is a bit over generous don't ya think.
The "political solution" has already been written and is remarkably apprapos the area. The issue has been decided violently and with finality- our side lost. Their capital was taken their army scattered and ineffective. They have now only to submit to whatever terms the victor might wish to extend. For a couple milenia even in that part of the world the vanquished might rightly expect from victor some degree of mercy. Should they choose to continue an irregular war their claim on this bit of civility that carries on because it is advantagous to both parties is nulled and they become subject to the vaguries of a very very violent ideology- if they are not already
The "political solution" has already been written and is remarkably apprapos the area. The issue has been decided violently and with finality- our side lost. Their capital was taken their army scattered and ineffective. They have now only to submit to whatever terms the victor might wish to extend. For a couple milenia even in that part of the world the vanquished might rightly expect from victor some degree of mercy. Should they choose to continue an irregular war their claim on this bit of civility that carries on because it is advantagous to both parties is nulled and they become subject to the vaguries of a very very violent ideology- if they are not already
Calling "strategy" the habit of reacting with violent aggression and new war to every new event also is not strategy.
Strategy implies judgment. One can question Obama on this, but it is beyond question now that the neocon hawks had no judgment at all and lead us to nothing but disaster.
Strategy implies judgment. One can question Obama on this, but it is beyond question now that the neocon hawks had no judgment at all and lead us to nothing but disaster.
A carefully calibrated attack on Saudi oil facilities backed by a boycott of Saudi oil might solve this problem with a great deal of haste. I know I will pay three times at the pump, but I am fed up with this ONE country financing all kinds of evil across the world without consequence for the previous four decades.
3
Agreed. For all the talk of the pivoting east, we might be in a better place if serious attention were given to pivoting to alternative energies.
1
Shame on the U.S. for supporting the repugnant aerial raids on a people who are aspiring to have more control over their lives.
2
We have continually supported the "wrong leaders" in most countries where we have tried to "help". Papa Doc, the Shah, Noriega, the Marcos', Mubarak, Karzai, and the list goes on. Maybe we should look at our history, regardless of the administration, and realize we are not very good at foreign policy. We have squandered trillions on what amounts to grandiose ego trips by competing political parties trying to prove we know what is best for every country in the world. The reality of our track record is embarrassing at best.
9
That pattern reflects motive. We sought power, instead of justice. We got neither, as injustice poisoned everything. We knew that, even preached it about others, but did it anyway.
2
I have seen nothing in the comments about our economic vulnerability to the costs of oil? What has been our plan since the days of Pres. Carter? Land mines in the sea lanes--does that conjure up any scenarios?
1
Are you confused yet about what drives US foreign policy in the Middle East? Disappointed in US foreign policy? That is because we are projecting our moral values to something that is basically a cold blooded calculation. Foreign policy has never been about doing good or right vs. wrong. It is about national self-interest. Here is Wikipedia's definition:"A country's foreign policy, also called foreign relations policy, consists of self-interest strategies chosen by the state to safeguard its national interests and to achieve goals within its international relations milieu." Follow the money and the oil and you will have your answer.
Self interest can include doing the right thing because it is the right thing. That is exactly how we keep our peace with our allies. That is how we treat Canada, Britain, Japan, all of our allies.
Power expressed as aggression is just warmaking. It is a decision against peace.
Power expressed as aggression is just warmaking. It is a decision against peace.
I actually thought they had run out of ammunition and were using this political excuse as cover...
1
Yes, it must be extremely difficult to reach a political solution in Yemen because the Saudis gave it all of an hour to happen and it didn't, so US bombs go flying out of US made planes again down on the heads of civilians. Just like this summer's genocide in Gaza by a supposed US ally, Americans are horrified by the lack of any ethics or strategy when the villains of the ME go on their bloodthirsty rampages that have no goal other than the murder of innocents. Let Israel and Saudi form their own defense pack and then stand back and watch what happens when they run out of US made weapons.
5
They may run out of food and water but weapons? Never!
This resumption of bombing Yemen by Saudis after declaration of cease fire by coalition forces, is reflective of their paranoia and lack of consideration for human values. Red Cross and UN authorities asked for cease fire on human taiga grounds. Iran has also consented to facilitate resolution of conflict through negotiations. This kind of attitude can stir more reaction even from within Saudi Arabia and will be much to the detriment of Saudi rulers.
4
I do have a questions?
Will the Saudis be sued by the international court for bombing without provocation civilians,women and children.These people have been living in the Middle Ages and been bombed by modern aircraft.Any Arab nation will complain?
Will the Saudis be sued by the international court for bombing without provocation civilians,women and children.These people have been living in the Middle Ages and been bombed by modern aircraft.Any Arab nation will complain?
3
If they do it many times to several neighbors, again and again, year after year, mowing the grass of their neighbors every few years, then yes they probably would come under great international pressure. It take awhile to build. Others too got away with it for awhile.
Our continued support of the Saudi rampage is Yemen is just another example of the President's spineless ways. For. Peace Price winner he has shown very little courage in the face of Saudi brutality generally and the Yemen escape in particular. It takes courage to say NO Mr.President. Courage seems to be something you lack. It is shameful.
2
He said NO to the war on Iran that the Saudis and Israelis wanted. That was a big NO.
This is just the price of making that NO stick, as others seek to undermine it.
This is just the price of making that NO stick, as others seek to undermine it.
If the US could muster international support to arrive at the nuclear deal with Iran, or in case of the Syrian chemical weapons, why can't it try some kind of regional solution backed by international community/UN, as suggested by Iranian foreign minister too, to seek a solution to the larger problems of the Middle East? Instead, what the US seems content with right now is to look the other way, while allowing its old allies like the Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Arab states a free hand in Yemen, and not even trying to redefine its strategy and alliances in a more meaningful way, resulting in its strategic failure in the Middle East.
5
The very premise of your proposal is wrong. Specifically, there is NO "nuclear deal with Iran."
The limit is that US is not able to select faithful allies in Asia and Africa.
Examples are Saudi Arabia and Egypt today, Afghanistan and Cambodia time ago.
Therefore, the real problem is that US had always problems in foreign politics, under both Republican and Democratic Presidencies.
Staying on the subject, Saudi Arabia financed Bin Laden and ISIS, makes its own expansion war destabilizing the Middle East, but it is still an US ally.
If the US target is to sell them aircraft and arms, that can be done also if Saudi Arabia is not an ally.
Examples are Saudi Arabia and Egypt today, Afghanistan and Cambodia time ago.
Therefore, the real problem is that US had always problems in foreign politics, under both Republican and Democratic Presidencies.
Staying on the subject, Saudi Arabia financed Bin Laden and ISIS, makes its own expansion war destabilizing the Middle East, but it is still an US ally.
If the US target is to sell them aircraft and arms, that can be done also if Saudi Arabia is not an ally.
2
Obama doesn't have any real strategy, other than manipulating the willing press by spouting false accomplishments so they can ride out the news Cycle. Congrats Obama, our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. Perhaps the American public is not as stupid as you think.
2
The main story here is about how utterly incompetent and careless the Obama administration has become in regards to the middle east wars as a whole, and to Yemen in particular..
When the Saudis first started bombing not only did the administration support it, it was actively involved by providing targeting information. Then the administration decided that upon further consideration it was a bad idea after all and so they ordered the Saudis to stop bombing.
The articles speaks of how "the challenge has been advising a crucial Middle East ally on how to carry out a complex military campaign". A decision to start a war then to order it stopped does not qualify as advice at all. So while for the Saudis this is a matter of utmost seriousness, why should they listen to the opinions of the US.
Of course the way to solve the problem in Yemen is through diplomacy and speaking to the parties. However while the middle east has been blowing up all this time, the most important matter on Obama's agenda is his deal with Iran. Not only can't he bother to send Kerry to take a single trip to speak to any of the parties involved in Yemen, the whole Sunni-Shiah war is of no concern to him.
And this is because the most important objective of his presidency is to accomplish what he sees as a "signature achievement". So what is potential war with no end in sight compared to making a deal with Iran that he believes will earn him a place in the history books.
When the Saudis first started bombing not only did the administration support it, it was actively involved by providing targeting information. Then the administration decided that upon further consideration it was a bad idea after all and so they ordered the Saudis to stop bombing.
The articles speaks of how "the challenge has been advising a crucial Middle East ally on how to carry out a complex military campaign". A decision to start a war then to order it stopped does not qualify as advice at all. So while for the Saudis this is a matter of utmost seriousness, why should they listen to the opinions of the US.
Of course the way to solve the problem in Yemen is through diplomacy and speaking to the parties. However while the middle east has been blowing up all this time, the most important matter on Obama's agenda is his deal with Iran. Not only can't he bother to send Kerry to take a single trip to speak to any of the parties involved in Yemen, the whole Sunni-Shiah war is of no concern to him.
And this is because the most important objective of his presidency is to accomplish what he sees as a "signature achievement". So what is potential war with no end in sight compared to making a deal with Iran that he believes will earn him a place in the history books.
1
Yeah, lets revisit the Bush strategy. What was that strategy again?
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does not use its air force often. I am sure the King gave great thought to weighing the consequences if he does or does not use force. It seems that the whole middle east is in turmoil. It is not surprising when we see Iran Vs American war ship blockades while Mr. Obama tries desperately to get them a nuclear weapon. The President also publically and strongly backed Mr. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and they are now behind bars. How do the countries in the middle east know which side America is on when Americans don't know which side we are on?
1
I would be more impressed if:
1. The Saudi coalition bombed targets in the Al Qaeda-held areas in the South if only as a substitute for US drone-attacks
2. The US stop supporting Saudi anti-Iranian belligerence for reasons that are nothing to do with Yemen
3. The US were to stop supplying Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States with war materials that are certainly not just to defend them from the supposed "Iranian threat" and will most likely be used by IS and IS sympathisers when the Salafists take over in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and some other Gulf states
1. The Saudi coalition bombed targets in the Al Qaeda-held areas in the South if only as a substitute for US drone-attacks
2. The US stop supporting Saudi anti-Iranian belligerence for reasons that are nothing to do with Yemen
3. The US were to stop supplying Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States with war materials that are certainly not just to defend them from the supposed "Iranian threat" and will most likely be used by IS and IS sympathisers when the Salafists take over in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and some other Gulf states
5
Just why would we refuse to sell material that can easily be bought elsewhere. That would be just foolish.
Only the defeat of Radical Islam will bring peace to the Middle East. And that will not occur through appeasement even when it is masked in liberal rationalizations and revisionist history.
I'd also ask why our allies such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, et al should pay any attention to US when they know with near certainty that we will not stand with them should negative consequences arise from their taking the risks that we asked them to take?
I'd also ask why our allies such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, et al should pay any attention to US when they know with near certainty that we will not stand with them should negative consequences arise from their taking the risks that we asked them to take?
3
We won't get "the defeat of Radical Islam" by standing with the Saudis. They are its source.
Why don't Saudis simply admit they have failed instead of sending the world conflicting signals? They are obviously sinking and are dragging US with them!
1
Why not allow all Yemenis to go to the EU for refuge? If not the EU how about Minneapolis? Why should these people be subject to deprivation and violence when the West lives in relative prosperity?
1
Europe or Minneapolis? First is the issue of how to get people safely out of a war zone. Second the issue of whether refugee services are prepared for the influx of people. Europe is facing a migrant/refugee crisis and have not embraced the humanitarian role exactly. When it comes to how Americans would feel about tens of thousands of Yemeni's showing up and "demanding" assistance, forget it.
People have hard hearts when it comes to refugees living amongst them. Though I also think that many, myself included, would be more than willing to volunteer in any way possible to help if I could.
People have hard hearts when it comes to refugees living amongst them. Though I also think that many, myself included, would be more than willing to volunteer in any way possible to help if I could.
those of you asking if the US has a strategy for the Middle East -- or deriding the one we have -- let me ask, please:
What do you recommend? What magic bullet do you see unspent? What is the solution?
May I gently remind you that the war hawks in this country advocated us bombing Libya and throwing out its dictator -- and now we have a mess there that you blame Obama for.
May I remind you that war hawks advocated the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan, the overthrow of the president of Egypt, and much, much more, absolutely none of which turned out well and created after effects you now blame Obama for.
Tell me this: Do you follow arsonists around watching them set fires, cheering them on, and then blame the fire department when it fails to save the house?
The Middle East is a mess because more than 100 years ago the west -- England, France, Russia and the US -- created an unstable, unworkable, foreign governing structure through the whole area. That structure is now falling apart under its own weight. Nobody can stop it.
My solution: Get out of the way, stay out of the way, and deal with the consequences of actions our grandparents took.
What do you recommend? What magic bullet do you see unspent? What is the solution?
May I gently remind you that the war hawks in this country advocated us bombing Libya and throwing out its dictator -- and now we have a mess there that you blame Obama for.
May I remind you that war hawks advocated the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan, the overthrow of the president of Egypt, and much, much more, absolutely none of which turned out well and created after effects you now blame Obama for.
Tell me this: Do you follow arsonists around watching them set fires, cheering them on, and then blame the fire department when it fails to save the house?
The Middle East is a mess because more than 100 years ago the west -- England, France, Russia and the US -- created an unstable, unworkable, foreign governing structure through the whole area. That structure is now falling apart under its own weight. Nobody can stop it.
My solution: Get out of the way, stay out of the way, and deal with the consequences of actions our grandparents took.
25
Charlie, the middle east was a mess before that West made it's borders. It was a clan and tribe based area, divided and fighting about religion and honor. We just didn't have reporters there or technology to know about it or broadcast it.
1
The reason we blame Obama for bombing Libya and throwing out its dictator, is because he did both.
2
Perhaps your grandparents, but not mine.
Saudi Arabia, nominally our ally against ISIS, is finally bombing for real and, guess what, they aren't bombing ISIS. but they are killing civilians as enthusiastically as we ever did.
13
Why are we increasingly on the wrong side of wars and the wrong side of history?
1
Easy to bomb at will unprotected people and without any provocation.
3
Does the U.S. have a strategy for the Middle East? If so, it is one of the best kept diplomatic secrets in recorded history.
The Obama administration allies with the Shia against ISIS; it allies with the Sunni against the Houthi. It supports the "Arab Spring," but also supports the Sisi military dictatorship. It gets rid of a domesticated tyrant in Libya and enables the creation of a failed state. It draws a red line in Syria with invisible ink. Etc.
After several years of effort, a framework agreement with Iran is negotiated, and then the U.S. sends an aircraft carrier group into the Red Sea to interdict Iranian ships that might be carrying weapons (or perhaps only humanitarian assistance supplies) at the behest of the Saudi and Egyptian autocracies.
Let's put a marker on the central issue: any relaxation in the sanctions against Iran will lead to another major fall in already fallen oil prices. The Saudis just won't have it and, if they won't, their American junior partners will have to toe the line.
So let American actions against Iran in the Yemeni conflict disabuse the Iranians concerning American trustworthiness and lead to failure in the next stage of the proposed agreement. Then Obama can claim the Iranians acted in bad faith. The Sunnis and Israelis will be happy, as will the oil state Republicans in the Senate. The apparent contradictions might just be a veiled strategy of deliberate failure to normalize relations with Iran.
The Obama administration allies with the Shia against ISIS; it allies with the Sunni against the Houthi. It supports the "Arab Spring," but also supports the Sisi military dictatorship. It gets rid of a domesticated tyrant in Libya and enables the creation of a failed state. It draws a red line in Syria with invisible ink. Etc.
After several years of effort, a framework agreement with Iran is negotiated, and then the U.S. sends an aircraft carrier group into the Red Sea to interdict Iranian ships that might be carrying weapons (or perhaps only humanitarian assistance supplies) at the behest of the Saudi and Egyptian autocracies.
Let's put a marker on the central issue: any relaxation in the sanctions against Iran will lead to another major fall in already fallen oil prices. The Saudis just won't have it and, if they won't, their American junior partners will have to toe the line.
So let American actions against Iran in the Yemeni conflict disabuse the Iranians concerning American trustworthiness and lead to failure in the next stage of the proposed agreement. Then Obama can claim the Iranians acted in bad faith. The Sunnis and Israelis will be happy, as will the oil state Republicans in the Senate. The apparent contradictions might just be a veiled strategy of deliberate failure to normalize relations with Iran.
8
The U.S. is meddling or dabbling in foreign and security policy. Being 'all in' or definitively out would be preferable, and less confusing to allies and adversaries. But these two options would take more smarts than this team could muster.
1
Just so I'm clear. U.S. is negotiating a nuclear treaty with Iran and to remove sanctions and become friends (kind of), on one hand. Now, on the other hand, U.S. is supporting Saudi who are fighting the rebels in Yemen who are being supported by America's soon-to-be new BFF, Iran. Oh, got it, now...that's why the Obama Administration trusts Iran with this nuclear deal. LOL !
5
so whats the alternative to a peace deal with Iran? let them build the bomb? Perpetual war for perpetual peace? Let's not criticize for criticisms sake. If you were Obama, what would you do?
1
Prior to the US "Surge" in Iraq (2007) one analyst defined the situation as so terrible that the best the US could hope for would be that war and insurgency did not spread to the rest of the Middle east. The US (and Iraq) got lucky and Iraqi Sunnis supported the Baghdad government sufficiently to displace AlQueda. It even appeared that Iraq retained a national government. But that was not to be and Iraq, Syria, Libya, and now Yemen have fallen into feudal chaotic war zones. So much of the Middle east resembles 2005-06 Iraq.
A US citizen today can not understand these war zones any better than US leaders understood the Iraqi war zone of 2005. Choosing sides, sending weapons, and especially sending troops is a fools errand.
A US citizen today can not understand these war zones any better than US leaders understood the Iraqi war zone of 2005. Choosing sides, sending weapons, and especially sending troops is a fools errand.
7
Lucky??? More like skill which due to circumstances and the Obama administration ran out.
Vulcanalex,
The point of my post was that the US never understood the nature of the Iraqi war. There never was a national government. The Sunni "awakening" was financially supported by the US and there were some very brave--and, yes, "skillful"--US military involved. (I think everyone over there realized the initial US policy had failed and needed to be changed) But, the Bush White House never understood that Sunni and Shiite could not forge a democracy together. I think the Obama White House just didn't care. They wanted out.
Blaming the Obama administration for the current situation is missing the point. And such a perspective keeps one from seeing the real point: The US is not equipped to play in the Middle East sand box. We don't understand the history. We don't understand the nature of an "arab" government. We don't appreciate that war and diplomacy and chaos and order in the Middle east is far different that in a western country.
The Sunni population in Iraq found it rational to support the "awakening" to rid themselves of Al Queda in '07. And, it was just as rational--from their viewpoint--to support ISIS in '14 to rid themselves of the Baghdad government. My point: the US really doesn't want to form alliances with these types of flip-floppers. And, I'm not mad at them, or Obama, or Bush. I'm just saying, this is not our fight. Never was. Probably the only thing we can do is make the situation worse and feel manipulated.
The point of my post was that the US never understood the nature of the Iraqi war. There never was a national government. The Sunni "awakening" was financially supported by the US and there were some very brave--and, yes, "skillful"--US military involved. (I think everyone over there realized the initial US policy had failed and needed to be changed) But, the Bush White House never understood that Sunni and Shiite could not forge a democracy together. I think the Obama White House just didn't care. They wanted out.
Blaming the Obama administration for the current situation is missing the point. And such a perspective keeps one from seeing the real point: The US is not equipped to play in the Middle East sand box. We don't understand the history. We don't understand the nature of an "arab" government. We don't appreciate that war and diplomacy and chaos and order in the Middle east is far different that in a western country.
The Sunni population in Iraq found it rational to support the "awakening" to rid themselves of Al Queda in '07. And, it was just as rational--from their viewpoint--to support ISIS in '14 to rid themselves of the Baghdad government. My point: the US really doesn't want to form alliances with these types of flip-floppers. And, I'm not mad at them, or Obama, or Bush. I'm just saying, this is not our fight. Never was. Probably the only thing we can do is make the situation worse and feel manipulated.
The Saudis educated Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS. They are not our friends. They lie about Iran and Shia. They are a theocracy, a monarchy, antithetical to democracy. We must renounce them.
19
What I want to know is if the US Naval forces that President Obama has dispatched to Yemen are going to stop Iranian arms shipments or facilitate them. Or, maybe, like Chauncey Gardner, they're just going to watch.
5
It seems the Saudis are in panic. They did not learn from history that air strikes alone cannot win a war. Saudis, Egypt, UAE and other Gulf states do not have the courage or the resources to commit ground forces. They could not buy even Pakistani ground forces. Expensive weapons alone will not do the job. USA has no choice but to back this ill fated adventure. These are not the warriors who can stand up to IRAN.
4
Ground forces to capture and run (read ruin) tiny Yemen? again, a nation building exercise to find rulers with the right credentials to serve a foreign master? come on.
1
The geopolitics of this are obvious. U.S. support of Saudi in Yemen is the price Obama has to pay for Saudi toleration of the nuclear agreement. If, as Iran says, it is not seriously involved in Yemen, then the U.S. doesn't hurt it much by standing in the Arab corner on this one, and it may reassure the kingdom that Obama won't tolerate any Iranian expansionism. I don't really think he can take any other position.
4
"If, as Iran says, it is not seriously involved in Yemen, then the U.S. doesn't hurt it much by standing in the Arab corner on this one"
And if that convoy is only carrying food, as Iran says, then the USN doing the interception is just preventing an attack on it by those claiming it has arms, and there will be no confrontation.
It seems from US actions that the US believes Iran, and not its "friends" the Saudis.
And if that convoy is only carrying food, as Iran says, then the USN doing the interception is just preventing an attack on it by those claiming it has arms, and there will be no confrontation.
It seems from US actions that the US believes Iran, and not its "friends" the Saudis.
More endless war and destruction...? WHY do the rulers of the US constantly get us involved in these destructive activities, over and over again?
We may not be able to control world events, but we can certainly avoid contributing to yet more international chaos and destruction!
This insanity only profits the arms merchants and results in more instability, as an article in the latest Times Magazine made clear (based on the large numbers of fighters created to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, who them went all over the Middle East and the world). And yet we keep doing the essentially same things over and over and over again...
Just look at the state of things in the Middle East! Is it better for the US armed/arms-providing involvement?
We may not be able to control world events, but we can certainly avoid contributing to yet more international chaos and destruction!
This insanity only profits the arms merchants and results in more instability, as an article in the latest Times Magazine made clear (based on the large numbers of fighters created to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, who them went all over the Middle East and the world). And yet we keep doing the essentially same things over and over and over again...
Just look at the state of things in the Middle East! Is it better for the US armed/arms-providing involvement?
4
Are the American ships in the Gulf to stop Iranian shipments of arms to Yemen, or to stop the Saudi's and their coalition from bombing?
2
This article just shows how confused the US is when trying to support the "right" people in the Middle East. We support Saudi Arabia and the Sunni Bloc in Yemen, Bahrain, Lebanon, and Syria (well, kind of) but at the same time are engaged with Iran in these much lauded nuclear talks, actively support Iranian-supported militias against ISIS in Iraq, and tacitly support Iran's interests in Syria (again, kind of). One man's simple advice: if you can't discern your country's interest in the conflict or pick the right side, don't get involved.
3
Interesting.
The folks now condemning Saudi Arabia are the same ones a few months ago who said the USA must get out and allow the ME countries to sort this mess out on their own.
The folks now condemning Saudi Arabia are the same ones a few months ago who said the USA must get out and allow the ME countries to sort this mess out on their own.
3
Alright!
Consider excuses for helplessness officially deciminated by the paper of record for planted excuses.
Presidenting is harrrddd. Why no Bush Jr. quite?
Consider excuses for helplessness officially deciminated by the paper of record for planted excuses.
Presidenting is harrrddd. Why no Bush Jr. quite?
I wonder how the US knows exactly what's in those Iranian ships without boarding them. Of course, they must be weapons, because the US says so.
I also wonder how Iran manages to support and arm the Houthis when there is a total air and sea blockade around and over Yemen.
The US says they know how Iran is doing it, but they offer no proof..none.
I love the spin about Saudi fighting to protect its borders. No Yemenis of any ilk, have any interest in attacking Saudi. Just another lame excuse to keep killing, wounding and driving out of their homes, more Yemenis.
...and the western arms makers are cheering both sides on. The longer this goes on, the richer they get.
I also wonder how Iran manages to support and arm the Houthis when there is a total air and sea blockade around and over Yemen.
The US says they know how Iran is doing it, but they offer no proof..none.
I love the spin about Saudi fighting to protect its borders. No Yemenis of any ilk, have any interest in attacking Saudi. Just another lame excuse to keep killing, wounding and driving out of their homes, more Yemenis.
...and the western arms makers are cheering both sides on. The longer this goes on, the richer they get.
16
Until such time as we have a thorough going over of Bush's War of Hubris in Iraq, with some conclusions about bad actors if not trials, I really don't believe we should be pointing fingers at nations fighting on their borders.
4
Money to be made by US arms dealers, the game will continue...
16
Why is anyone surprised? Nothing is ever what we think it is in that part of the world.
Refusing to provide MANPADS ("MAn-Portable-Air-Defense-Systems") to any armed group or faction fighting the SAAF ("Syrian Arab Airforce", the al-Assad clan's fighter bombers) was the best decision President Obama ever made. Before too long American jetliners would have been blown out of the sky all over the world after anyone possessing some sold them to the highest bidder. Assurances that nothing like that would ever happen count for nothing because nothing is ever as it seems in that part of the world.
Obama's next-best decision, a close second, was ignoring insistent demands by Sen. McCain, Sen. Graham and others to covertly send US Special OPS teams into northeastern Syria to train, even fight with, the FSA ("Free Syrian Army"). Soon, we would have been treated to the spectacle of them being beheaded one-by-one in some desolate corner of the Syrian Desert -- or even burned alive -- after being sold by one of our FSA "allies" to the black-flag Nusra Front or al-Qaeda in Iraq like sheep, or cattle. Assurances that it could never happen count for nothing because nothing is ever what it appears to be in that part of the world.
Nothing is ever what it appears to be in that part of the world. Write that on your eyeballs. Homer's ancient ballads "Iliad" and "Odyssey" waxed poetic about the Janus nature of the peoples of that region long before Jihadis rode on horseback out of the desert.
Refusing to provide MANPADS ("MAn-Portable-Air-Defense-Systems") to any armed group or faction fighting the SAAF ("Syrian Arab Airforce", the al-Assad clan's fighter bombers) was the best decision President Obama ever made. Before too long American jetliners would have been blown out of the sky all over the world after anyone possessing some sold them to the highest bidder. Assurances that nothing like that would ever happen count for nothing because nothing is ever as it seems in that part of the world.
Obama's next-best decision, a close second, was ignoring insistent demands by Sen. McCain, Sen. Graham and others to covertly send US Special OPS teams into northeastern Syria to train, even fight with, the FSA ("Free Syrian Army"). Soon, we would have been treated to the spectacle of them being beheaded one-by-one in some desolate corner of the Syrian Desert -- or even burned alive -- after being sold by one of our FSA "allies" to the black-flag Nusra Front or al-Qaeda in Iraq like sheep, or cattle. Assurances that it could never happen count for nothing because nothing is ever what it appears to be in that part of the world.
Nothing is ever what it appears to be in that part of the world. Write that on your eyeballs. Homer's ancient ballads "Iliad" and "Odyssey" waxed poetic about the Janus nature of the peoples of that region long before Jihadis rode on horseback out of the desert.
8
“They’re worried about their own security. And of course we’ve supported them with their actions.”
We are supporting a genocide.
We are supporting a genocide.
6
Swm, the following is a definition of the word genocide : the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. The Saudi bombing have undoubtedly killed people in Yemen, but to call it genocide shows that you really have no idea of what the word means. Anytime a nation use its air force civilians were will be killed, especially in wars zones that are in areas filled with civilians. If the Saudi.s are bombing transportation centers for military equipment or cargo ships with military equipment, then they will kill civilians who are engaged in helping their foes fight a war. In modern warfare, nations try to destroy the ability of their foes to make war, and that includes all people who help their foes wage war, whether they are military personnel or not. This is a unfortunately reality of modern warfare which the Saudi's have learned from the US.
1
"Saudi Defiance on Yemen Reflects Limits of U.S. Strategy"
Yes, United States strategy was precisely to bomb Yemen and what and who was destroyed was a matter of indifference as cities were bombing in a poor densely populated country. There is no defiance of the US, bombing is what the US has been all about in Yemen.
I am so saddened.
Yes, United States strategy was precisely to bomb Yemen and what and who was destroyed was a matter of indifference as cities were bombing in a poor densely populated country. There is no defiance of the US, bombing is what the US has been all about in Yemen.
I am so saddened.
10
THIS report needs to be addressed by NY Times as the Newspaper of Record:
"Iranian representatives discouraged Houthi rebels from taking the Yemeni capital of Sanaa last year, according to American officials familiar with intelligence around the insurgent takeover.
The seizure of the capital in September came as a surprise to the international community, as Houthi rebels demonstrating outside Sanaa realized the city was abandoned and effectively unguarded. Despite Iran's advice, the Houthis walked into the city and claimed it".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/20/iran-houthis-yemen_n_7101456.html
"Iranian representatives discouraged Houthi rebels from taking the Yemeni capital of Sanaa last year, according to American officials familiar with intelligence around the insurgent takeover.
The seizure of the capital in September came as a surprise to the international community, as Houthi rebels demonstrating outside Sanaa realized the city was abandoned and effectively unguarded. Despite Iran's advice, the Houthis walked into the city and claimed it".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/20/iran-houthis-yemen_n_7101456.html
7
"Saudi Defiance on Yemen Reflects Limits of U.S. Strategy"
This is a brilliant New York Times heading, brilliant and terribly saddening. We applauded and assisted going to war in Yemen, bombing cities, ruining cities and lives of inhabitants. There was no reason to go to war in Yemen but of course there was no reason to go to war in Iraq, and look at the impossible destruction but now we complain about "defiance" because we cannot turn the war off (if we even actually want to).
This is a brilliant New York Times heading, brilliant and terribly saddening. We applauded and assisted going to war in Yemen, bombing cities, ruining cities and lives of inhabitants. There was no reason to go to war in Yemen but of course there was no reason to go to war in Iraq, and look at the impossible destruction but now we complain about "defiance" because we cannot turn the war off (if we even actually want to).
10
The reason to go to war in Yemen was because 1) It has long been an area of thugs and gangs trading places as 'head of state'; 2) It is home to the venemous Al-Queda of the Arabian Peninsula; 3) Iran has been quietly helping the Houthi...one of the ethnic gangs cited above; 4) The Saudis, Gulf allies and the US canNOT allow Yemen to become a base for terrorist actions around the world...period.
1
US has always wanted to control Yemen for airbases and control over the straits!!! Yemen is an innocent victim!!
That is a very generous view of Saudi Arabia. Even Pakistan decided to stay out of this fight. Will others?
1
"Saudi Defiance on Yemen Reflects Limits of U.S. Strategy"
What? The United States has been assisting Saudi Arabia in bombing Yemen from the beginning. Bombing Yemen was as much our strategy as it was that of Saudi Arabia. Bombing Yemem was simply a tragedy, completely needless strategically and of course morally, but we have responsibility and need to blame ourselves.
What? The United States has been assisting Saudi Arabia in bombing Yemen from the beginning. Bombing Yemen was as much our strategy as it was that of Saudi Arabia. Bombing Yemem was simply a tragedy, completely needless strategically and of course morally, but we have responsibility and need to blame ourselves.
16
Several commenters have predicted that Iran will come out the "winner" in all this. I agree, but for a different reason.
We've seen the US and Saudi Arabia accuse Iran of arming the Houthis, but no evidence of this has come to light and Iran vehemently denies it. Many observers believe Iran, I suspect. Why, after all, would the US or Saudi Arabia withhold evidence of they had it? Would Saudi Arabia stop attacking the Houthis if they really believed Iran was supplying them with weapons?
If people start to doubt the US government's evidence-free allegations about Iran in this incident, they might start wondering whether the US has any basis for its allegations against Iran on other matters too. For example, the US long has insisted that Iran is developing nuclear weapons (in one poll, 60% of Americans believe Iran ALREADY has a bomb), but the US has never offered any evidence of this. Might the US' basis for that allegation be about as solid as its basis for claiming that Iran is arming the Houthis?
We've seen the US and Saudi Arabia accuse Iran of arming the Houthis, but no evidence of this has come to light and Iran vehemently denies it. Many observers believe Iran, I suspect. Why, after all, would the US or Saudi Arabia withhold evidence of they had it? Would Saudi Arabia stop attacking the Houthis if they really believed Iran was supplying them with weapons?
If people start to doubt the US government's evidence-free allegations about Iran in this incident, they might start wondering whether the US has any basis for its allegations against Iran on other matters too. For example, the US long has insisted that Iran is developing nuclear weapons (in one poll, 60% of Americans believe Iran ALREADY has a bomb), but the US has never offered any evidence of this. Might the US' basis for that allegation be about as solid as its basis for claiming that Iran is arming the Houthis?
9
The Saudis and Egyptians and Pakistanis need to get boots on the ground in Yemen as soon as possible if the coalition hopes to win this war.
1
The last time Egyptian and Saudi troops entered Yemen, they got their butts kicked. Saudi has had an easy bombing campaign; the Houthis have no air force or anti aircraft missiles...only some anti aircraft guns.
If they set foot in Yemen, they will get a taste of what the US and Soviets experienced in Afghanistan.
If they set foot in Yemen, they will get a taste of what the US and Soviets experienced in Afghanistan.
12
Win the war? Against whom? Iran and US interests coincide and the former is an accountable nation state of some 80 millions.
Support for Israel is contrary to US intetests (or certainly should not be controlling US policy through its purchased politicians).
The sunnis are and have been before 9/11 the primary mischief makers in the ME working under the ideology spawned in SA and supported by its money. Siding with SA and its proxies Al-Q, Isis, and to a degree malignant Pakistan, treacherous Turkey (why are they still in Nato? I would wager the EU is relieved too that Turkey is not and now never will be a member) and other rag- tag irregulars is malign and absurd.
The US and Iran are natural.allies if the US is to continue the "Forever War" for the benefit of the arms dealers.
Who is the US fighting in Afghanistan? US could "switch sides" and never miss a beat ( or bullet). Madness.
Support for Israel is contrary to US intetests (or certainly should not be controlling US policy through its purchased politicians).
The sunnis are and have been before 9/11 the primary mischief makers in the ME working under the ideology spawned in SA and supported by its money. Siding with SA and its proxies Al-Q, Isis, and to a degree malignant Pakistan, treacherous Turkey (why are they still in Nato? I would wager the EU is relieved too that Turkey is not and now never will be a member) and other rag- tag irregulars is malign and absurd.
The US and Iran are natural.allies if the US is to continue the "Forever War" for the benefit of the arms dealers.
Who is the US fighting in Afghanistan? US could "switch sides" and never miss a beat ( or bullet). Madness.
2
Pakistan has a 20% shia minority. Why should it flame the fires even more at home? It's not their fight.
Good luck to the Egyptians and Saudi armies. They haven't really excelled in that domain.
Good luck to the Egyptians and Saudi armies. They haven't really excelled in that domain.
1
Anyone who thinks that a few Iranian wepons and training means that they can control the Zaydis doesn't know Shi'ite from Shinola or the history of the Zaydi imams. Yemen has a long history of taking weapons, money, and training from Russians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. and then going their own way. The Kissinger/Bolton wannabees who see this through the distorted lens of short-term Israeli alliances are more than happy to look the other way while the US aids Saudi airstrikes that degrade the only force that has so far been capable of fighting Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (probably remembering great-great-great-great-grand-dad's battle with the Bani Ismail, the Qaramata, the Ibadis, and other similar groups they are woefully ignorant of. Who loses in all this? Mostly the Yemenis, then the US. Sad.
9
Rather brilliant analysis, I think.
3
"Hundreds of Saudi airstrikes have destroyed military installations around the country — including those belonging to counterterrorism troops trained by the United States…"
My goodness, this gets better and better all the time -- for US arms manufacturers.
Riddle: What's better than a customer using up a whole bunch of expensive military hardware that it will need you to replace?
Answer: A customer who uses up a whole bunch of expensive military hardware to blow up military hardware that you've sold to another customer.
My goodness, this gets better and better all the time -- for US arms manufacturers.
Riddle: What's better than a customer using up a whole bunch of expensive military hardware that it will need you to replace?
Answer: A customer who uses up a whole bunch of expensive military hardware to blow up military hardware that you've sold to another customer.
13
"The American Government … will support them 'till the Saudi oil runs out."
Tsk, tsk -- such cynicism! Do you really think the US government would abandon Saudi Arabia tomorrow just because Saudi Arabia runs out of money?
I don't think so. The day after tomorrow, maybe, but not tomorrow.
Tsk, tsk -- such cynicism! Do you really think the US government would abandon Saudi Arabia tomorrow just because Saudi Arabia runs out of money?
I don't think so. The day after tomorrow, maybe, but not tomorrow.
2
Oh, please -- the Saudi petroleum coming into the US has been very little for decades...something like 5% of out total.
Why not focus on the Mexican and Venezuelan governments, both terribly corrupt -- the US buys most of our oil from them!
Oh -- don't want to upset the Latino voters -- so let's keep their corruption and greed under the rug!
Why not focus on the Mexican and Venezuelan governments, both terribly corrupt -- the US buys most of our oil from them!
Oh -- don't want to upset the Latino voters -- so let's keep their corruption and greed under the rug!
1
Just replace SA oil with Iranian. Or Venezuelan.
A pro-Saudi commenter writes:
"[By attacking the Houthis], Saudi Arabia is . . . trying to stop the take over of Yemen by Terrorist groups and ISIL"
Mark Thomason responds:
"No. The Houthi are fighing al Qaeda and ISIL. The Houthi are fighting the terrorist groups."
COMMENT:
Details, details. I wouldn't get all hung up in details. The point is that the Saudis are fighting SOMEONE OR OTHER, and the Saudis are good customers. The customer is always right.
"[By attacking the Houthis], Saudi Arabia is . . . trying to stop the take over of Yemen by Terrorist groups and ISIL"
Mark Thomason responds:
"No. The Houthi are fighing al Qaeda and ISIL. The Houthi are fighting the terrorist groups."
COMMENT:
Details, details. I wouldn't get all hung up in details. The point is that the Saudis are fighting SOMEONE OR OTHER, and the Saudis are good customers. The customer is always right.
8
Saudi Arabia is "a petroleum-fueled state that is an unholy alliance of hardcore fundamentalism and naked greed?"
Who'd have guessed, eh? If only we'd known that when we sold them all those weapons!
Who'd have guessed, eh? If only we'd known that when we sold them all those weapons!
3
"Is there a way out of Yemen for the Saudi? An exit strategy?"
When you have billions of dollars worth of military hardware and your victim has essentially no military at all, and the country that sold you all that hardware (and would like to see you use it all up so you'll have to buy more) orders its navy to help you out by blockading your coast, the last thing you need is an "exit strategy." You just bomb as long as you feel like bombing, and then you stop -- like maybe when your favorite TV show comes on. If and when you feel like bombing some more -- like maybe when your favorite TV show is over -- you just do it.
Your victim is so weak, after all -- even before you start bombing it -- that it really can't do anything to retaliate, or even to defend itself. No need to think about an exit strategy.
When you have billions of dollars worth of military hardware and your victim has essentially no military at all, and the country that sold you all that hardware (and would like to see you use it all up so you'll have to buy more) orders its navy to help you out by blockading your coast, the last thing you need is an "exit strategy." You just bomb as long as you feel like bombing, and then you stop -- like maybe when your favorite TV show comes on. If and when you feel like bombing some more -- like maybe when your favorite TV show is over -- you just do it.
Your victim is so weak, after all -- even before you start bombing it -- that it really can't do anything to retaliate, or even to defend itself. No need to think about an exit strategy.
12
Do you know the history of Yemen? It's a basket-case, most people live in the southwest, the eastern half is mostly desolate mountain ranges...it is terribly poor, and several 'gangs' (political parties, ahem!) have taken turns ruling (and corrupting) the country for decades...do you know that it only became one country in 1990?
"Is there a way out of Yemen for the Saudi? An exit strategy?"
Of course: get the US to take its place. And why not? If the outcome of a civil war in Yemen, a poor, dusty country halfway around the world that poses no threat whatsoever to us, isn't a vital US interest, I'd sure like to know what is.
Of course: get the US to take its place. And why not? If the outcome of a civil war in Yemen, a poor, dusty country halfway around the world that poses no threat whatsoever to us, isn't a vital US interest, I'd sure like to know what is.
5
An Iran critic spots hypocrisy:
"We have read the Iranian foreign minister in this space calling for cease-fire in Yemen while arming their rebels of choice."
What if we learn that Iran is NOT arming the rebels? (After all, Iran flatly denies it and no one has provided a shred of evidence.) Would that change your view of this call for a cease-fire?
"We have read the Iranian foreign minister in this space calling for cease-fire in Yemen while arming their rebels of choice."
What if we learn that Iran is NOT arming the rebels? (After all, Iran flatly denies it and no one has provided a shred of evidence.) Would that change your view of this call for a cease-fire?
5
Why should the Iranians or the Houthis or anyone else in the region, for that matter, believe anything the United States or its ally Saudi Arabia says? Their long history of lies and clandestine efforts to undermine legitimate governments in the region and around the world is well documented.
15
A bunch of oil rich murderers backed openly by The American Government (themselves well versed in bombing countries) that will support them 'till the Saudi oil runs out. The Yemenis are basically in a civil war, let them settle it.
PS. Obama's Yemen wasn't quite the success he said it was a few months ago. He may not be the worst president ever but he sure is the most disappointing.
PS. Obama's Yemen wasn't quite the success he said it was a few months ago. He may not be the worst president ever but he sure is the most disappointing.
5
You are naive. Unfortunately, the Yemenis will NOT be allowed to 'settle it themselves'...(unlike 200 years ago, when they were largely ignored except for the Port of Aden)...now, different extremist Islamist groups are trying to gain control, to make Yemen the headquarters of terrorists poised to strike throughout the world.
Wake up, don't be a child! The world is a dangerous, complicated place!
Wake up, don't be a child! The world is a dangerous, complicated place!
"Saudi officials said on Tuesday that they were ending an aerial operation, named Decisive Storm…"
Catchy name -- Decisive Storm. Wonder where they came up with that.
Catchy name -- Decisive Storm. Wonder where they came up with that.
4
I haven't seen any protests in major cities deploring the deaths of civilians from Saudi airstrikes. The videos are likely real, not staged or stolen from other countries' tragedies. Last I checked, the Houthis weren't building tunnels into Saudi Arabia or launching rockets (badly aimed) at civilian population centers in Saudi Arabia. And yet in today's paper we read about Saudi displeasure at Pakistani reluctance to have their air forces commit to the bombing campaign in the "regional coalition." As though Yemen is anywhere near Pakistan, and the Pakistanis should fear a Houthi takeover of their country.
Hypocrisy? Double standards? Par for the course. Let's see the statistics on civilian deaths as a percentage. And maybe the Pentagon will comment.
Don't hold your breath for the rallies and demonstrations. Those only apply to one country. Where's the indignation of the Arabs/Muslims/Lefties? AWOL.
Hypocrisy? Double standards? Par for the course. Let's see the statistics on civilian deaths as a percentage. And maybe the Pentagon will comment.
Don't hold your breath for the rallies and demonstrations. Those only apply to one country. Where's the indignation of the Arabs/Muslims/Lefties? AWOL.
1
Is there a way out of Yemen for the Saudi? An exit strategy?
1
I don't think they're looking for a way out. Further, they're opening the door for their extremist proxy Al Qaeda. And we are, essentially, helping this to occur.
4
Sort of. Annexing it Crimea-style. That's their best bet for really restoring order, then they can carry on their mini-genocide to skew things Sunni or whatever they feel they need to do.
2
No, Saudi doesn't want to annex Yemen...which is a weird country that has its own culture, on the other side of a vast, desolate mountain range and desert from Saudi.
The problem these days is that Yemen is set to become Central Headquarters of every extremist group in the world...and Saudi has already been hit with terrorist attacks on their own soil, starting back in the '70s. The Saudis now face war in their northern borders (Iraq, Syria) and southern (Yemen).
Tell me, wouldn't YOU fight?
The problem these days is that Yemen is set to become Central Headquarters of every extremist group in the world...and Saudi has already been hit with terrorist attacks on their own soil, starting back in the '70s. The Saudis now face war in their northern borders (Iraq, Syria) and southern (Yemen).
Tell me, wouldn't YOU fight?
I smell panic -- and it's not from the Yemenis or Houthis. It's from a petroleum-fueled state that is an unholy alliance of hardcore fundamentalism and naked greed.
The price of oil is down, only they know what their reserves really are (and they won't tell), and their corrupt client neighbor is being taken away by something vaguely resembling actual patriots with the backing of their regional rival.
Do you really win the hearts and minds of a nation by bombing it indisciminately. No, and that's not what they're there to win: they just want to crush and threat, and just sit on it forever after.
Even if they do, their days are numbered; the unholy alliance will crack from other pressures, and the Arabian peninsula will become what it will become.
The price of oil is down, only they know what their reserves really are (and they won't tell), and their corrupt client neighbor is being taken away by something vaguely resembling actual patriots with the backing of their regional rival.
Do you really win the hearts and minds of a nation by bombing it indisciminately. No, and that's not what they're there to win: they just want to crush and threat, and just sit on it forever after.
Even if they do, their days are numbered; the unholy alliance will crack from other pressures, and the Arabian peninsula will become what it will become.
9
They are not trying to "win the hearts and minds" of anyone. You need to understand that. They are trying to support efforts to defend against the Iranian backed groups who are attempting, successfully, to take over Yemen, thereby posing a threat to their Saudi. It's not a game of tinddywinks. Obama could learn a lesson from them by really supporting other countries' boots on the ground and making a serious effort at destroying (not degrading) ISIS terrorists instead of tip toeing through the tulips.
1
Please: You don't understand that it was the Saudis' stand that reduced those oil prices...do some research, and perhaps you'll understand...Saudi wants a low-ish, stable price...unlike other OPEC members (e.g., Venezuela).
By supporting - logistic, intelligence and arms - Saudi Arabia's trample on Yemen's sovereignty, the US has lost its tenuous legitimate criticism of Russia's action in Ukraine and revealed its double standards and hypocrisy.
7
Many commenters still say Iran is arming the Houthi rebels. Iran flatly denies it. No evidence has been presented, by the US government or anyone else. That seems odd, don't you think? I wonder what the US government is basing its allegations on. Surely it wouldn't just make this up -- would it?
8
The Iranians are supplying medicine and food to the Yeminis. Saudi Arabia and the US are supplying bombs on their heads. Who is the more responsible?
You decide.
You decide.
13
It is impossible to be too cynical in this case.
4
reminds us again:
how is it that Saudi Arabia avoids being listed as a State Sponsor of Terrorism?
thought so
thank you anyway
11
Saudis are killing civilians in Yemen with their not well pinpointed bombings. Where is the NY Times graphic, counting every civilian death prominently displayed on the front page of your paper and website? Last summer you were quick to count every death the Palestinian Health Authority claimed, which included those killed by Hamas rockets falling on Gaza, Hamas soldiers and anyone else who happened to die. The Israelis were a lot more careful with pinpointing sites than the Saudis. The paper never counted all the Iraqi civilians that Americans killed. They were collateral damage. If Americans or Saudis kill civilians it seems it just doesn't count.
2
See what money can do for you?
Remember Prince Talal who have over 500 females working in his palace/office in Jeddah, and also owns big piece of Citibank and a whole bunch of other wall street firms.
Remember Prince Talal who have over 500 females working in his palace/office in Jeddah, and also owns big piece of Citibank and a whole bunch of other wall street firms.
3
The Saudis crapshoot came up with a winner, Iran. If Iran was not heavily engaged in Yemen, they will be now. When a child is given to running a household, the inevitability will be gross bungling.
Iran wins, the Saudis loses.
Iran wins, the Saudis loses.
6
The real power is a coalition of the Military Industrial Complex spinning the media for a stupid public that really doesn't care unless they are "personally" affected. Saw it in Vietnam where they kept bombing Cambodia, even after they had a "peace agreement" {meant to fool the American public) until congress cut the money off. What is the cost of the hottest plane, the F35, at a reported $135 million a piece. A boondoggle beset with technical problems and cost overruns due to: friends and family? Fleets of B52's were sent in to exterminate a soldier in a foxhole with a radio on his back. This was orchestrated by radio intercepts at Thailand and the Philippines. A fly killed with sledgehammers. They can't even get police work straight in this country because of a hostile attitude to the public. Educating people to be less hostile is a very difficult task. The problem is deep in the brain with hormones. We used to joke, in Vietnam, that they should drop bundles of marijuana instead of bombs. I understand why the Republicans are obsessed with marijuana.
3
Yemen is in serious conditions with non-stop killings and misery. The world has to show human compassion and help Europe, starting with Italy, in finding permanent places on where to put them - follow the same principles as the US in adopting illegal Mexicans.
It the Saudis believe, their main goal of the air-strikes has been to re-instate their stooge in Yemen, Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi, they have made a huge mistake.
Yemen is very divided. People in the North and South have not overcome their differences and made efforts to forge national unity, 25 years after the unification! Those in the South want to have their own state and urge the Houthis to stay where they are - in the North. Given these circumstances it's unclear what Hadi could do, should he return to power!
Yemen is very divided. People in the North and South have not overcome their differences and made efforts to forge national unity, 25 years after the unification! Those in the South want to have their own state and urge the Houthis to stay where they are - in the North. Given these circumstances it's unclear what Hadi could do, should he return to power!
8
Seems like we may as well just declare Yemen a permanent warzone for the interminable Shiite-Sunni war, and let people fight out their religious differences there until it's bombed completely flat and nobody can live there. I really don't see any other solution being applied to this, so I think it's best if we learn to accept this outcome in advance.
2
Let us not make facts, please check the troubled tribal history of Yemen and you would be amazed at what you would learn from it.
In the 1960s Gamal Nasser of Egypt sent a whole bunch of his soldiers only to leave with a 40% casualty rate. Houthis are quick learners and in 2009 when the Saudi Air Force planes were bombing them like crazy essentially committing genocide, the houthis started using the same techniques as the Saudis but without the Air Force and forced the Saudis back out of Northern Yemen.
This is a tribal war and the Saudis are trying to give it a Sectarian Narrative to embroil passions amongst the people of Pakistan and Egypt. It hasn't worked yet and hopefully it wont and they would not send their boots on the ground to fight for the Saudis. Egyptians have really never done anything to speak of except kill their own whether in Tahrir square or Alexandria.
In the 1960s Gamal Nasser of Egypt sent a whole bunch of his soldiers only to leave with a 40% casualty rate. Houthis are quick learners and in 2009 when the Saudi Air Force planes were bombing them like crazy essentially committing genocide, the houthis started using the same techniques as the Saudis but without the Air Force and forced the Saudis back out of Northern Yemen.
This is a tribal war and the Saudis are trying to give it a Sectarian Narrative to embroil passions amongst the people of Pakistan and Egypt. It hasn't worked yet and hopefully it wont and they would not send their boots on the ground to fight for the Saudis. Egyptians have really never done anything to speak of except kill their own whether in Tahrir square or Alexandria.
1
Once again Obama and Clintons foreign policy is failing and flailing in their inaction. Iran sends 9 ships to resupply the Houthis in Yemen and what does the US Navy do, they sit around in the ocean watching them. Not one Iranian ship has been sunk . The whole lot of them should have sunk the minute they left Iranian waters. Obama the greatest coward in American history.
3
explain first why you are supporting the Saudis?
4
I suppose you yearn for the days of Bush/Cheney. Yup, the world is definitely a better place because of them.
4
So far, no Iranian ships have landed in Yemen, nor any aircraft. No Iranian forces have been discovered on the ground in Yemen. So how, exactly, is Iran supplying or supporting the Houthis?
Iran's ships are in international waters. The US has no jurisdiction to stop, search or attack anybody.
Iran's ships are in international waters. The US has no jurisdiction to stop, search or attack anybody.
4
The Saudis bombing of Yemen has been indiscriminate, resulting in hundreds, if not thousands, of civilian deaths. The UN has said that there is a tragedy of humanitarian crisis unfolding in Yemen. Yet, the world is silence. Especially, those nations who are the permanent members of the UN Security Council. If there has ever been an occasion for these nations to take action to stop the bombing of innocent Yemenis, that occasion is now. Saudi Arabia and its Sunni allies must be told to stop the irrational and indiscriminate bombing for they are committing crimes against humanity. The world is watching.
6
can you imagine how the US is vilified by the main street press when we have one errant drone strike
Well that sounds great. But the problem is that what Saudis doing was taught by US. They were told not to separate between innocent and fighters. The US is doing the same in Yemen claiming to be targeting Al Qaeda and instead bombing a wedding party. we didn't see any accountability for what the US did in Pakistan, Afghan, Somalia Yemen...... and when one of the US stooges started doing the same it became inhuman. Well! what a fantastic description.
"In addition to the bombing, the Saudis have enforced an air and sea embargo that has starved Yemen of food, fuel and medicine, and helped cause an escalating humanitarian crisis." They - the Saudi's are CAUSING an humanitarian crisis? I do believe that logic has left the building. Saudi Arabia is protecting it's borders and people, trying to stop the take over of Yemen by Terrorist groups and ISIL and they are the ones to blame for the human tradgedy? What kind of world do we live in when right is called wrong and wrong is called right? I think Mr. Fahim and Mr. Al-Batati need to return to University and take a refresher in Logic and Ethics.
5
"Saudi Arabia is . . . trying to stop the take over of Yemen by Terrorist groups and ISIL"
No. The Houthi are fighing al Qaeda and ISIL. The Houthi are fighting the terrorist groups.
Since the Saudis bombed, only al Qaeda has increased its territory, helped that the Saudis did not bomb it, only the enemies of al Qaeda.
Whatever Saudis are doing, they are not stopping the same groups they also support in Syria.
No. The Houthi are fighing al Qaeda and ISIL. The Houthi are fighting the terrorist groups.
Since the Saudis bombed, only al Qaeda has increased its territory, helped that the Saudis did not bomb it, only the enemies of al Qaeda.
Whatever Saudis are doing, they are not stopping the same groups they also support in Syria.
8
What moral authority Saudi Arabia kingdom has to bob innocent people in Yemen? Saudi kingdom itself is oppressing the majority Shea population and amassing wealth by the few. When Saudi's do bad things; we look the other way, even after we came to know they were the financiers of 9/11. I understand. Our policy is derived from our thirst for cheap fuel.
5
Where were the daily charts and graphs displaying the ratio of Saudi deaths to Yemeni deaths?
Or do you only prominently print those charts and graphs when Israel fights against Hamas and Hezbollah?
Why was Sana'a not inundated with the usual foreign correspondents eager to interview the victimized Yemeni Houthis?
Please, let us together end this cycle of violence.
Or do you only prominently print those charts and graphs when Israel fights against Hamas and Hezbollah?
Why was Sana'a not inundated with the usual foreign correspondents eager to interview the victimized Yemeni Houthis?
Please, let us together end this cycle of violence.
8
To end the cycle of violence we'd all need to make sacrifices starting with our oil needs.
The logic of the American Dollar, is the only logic required to analyze this situation.
There is no such thing as a trade deficit - accounts have to be zeroed out. Because we took so much oil from Saudi Arabia, they had to take something from us; it turned out to be weapons, especially jet aircraft and bombs.
Because they bought so much of this stuff, sooner or later they would feel that they had to use it. Now is that time.
Expect nothing good.
There is no such thing as a trade deficit - accounts have to be zeroed out. Because we took so much oil from Saudi Arabia, they had to take something from us; it turned out to be weapons, especially jet aircraft and bombs.
Because they bought so much of this stuff, sooner or later they would feel that they had to use it. Now is that time.
Expect nothing good.
4
Seal off the Middle East. Withdraw all US troops. Close all US bases. Stop all material support to all countries in the Middle East. Let the people there decide on their own future. If they want to live like its still the 7th century, so be it. If they want to step into the 21st century, let them fight for and earn it. Other than oil, nothing of significance has come out of that area of the world in last 1000 years. We spend too much time and energy, and media attention, in a region of the world with a fraction of the world's population that has very little (relative) economic or cultural value to civilization as a whole. Does anyone really care whether the oil comes from Saudi Arabia, Iran or Iraq. They are all despots. It's all the same and its none of our business.
11
They won't drink the oil. They'll want the money. We are not really "protecting the oil" from anyone.
During the Cold War we feared Soviet control of the oil fields. That is decades past. Now, there is nobody to protect them from except the various groups who live on them, and they'll all see it to us just the same.
During the Cold War we feared Soviet control of the oil fields. That is decades past. Now, there is nobody to protect them from except the various groups who live on them, and they'll all see it to us just the same.
1
*sell it to us just the same
1
"Other than oil, nothing of significance has come out of that area of the world in the last 1000 years."
Ah, you might want retake world civ. Not western civ but world civ...
Ah, you might want retake world civ. Not western civ but world civ...
4
A tragic end to a tragic war. From start to end, this war has done nothing but kill over 900 Yemeni people, injure thousands and bring Yemen's already poor infrastructure to a complete halt. I recommend that everybody reads the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs's reports. Saudi's have bombed hospitals, schools, bridges, water, electricity and even food trucks. The goal was never to remove the Houthi threat - they were moving south anyway. It was always to starve the people of Yemen into submission. Of course, knowing Yemen's history, they should realize that's impossible.
Their attack has brought a blood-filled hate into the people of Yemen and they won't forget it. The new government won't and the cities won't. Their "legit" government is exiled in Saudi Arabia with no city, no army, no offices, nothing. Meanwhile the "militias" are collecting taxes, paying salaries, running police and health stations. Who is the real government?
Gotta say, thanks to Iran and Russia that made this deal possible. If it weren't for the pressure of these nations, Yemen would still be counting the bodies.
Their attack has brought a blood-filled hate into the people of Yemen and they won't forget it. The new government won't and the cities won't. Their "legit" government is exiled in Saudi Arabia with no city, no army, no offices, nothing. Meanwhile the "militias" are collecting taxes, paying salaries, running police and health stations. Who is the real government?
Gotta say, thanks to Iran and Russia that made this deal possible. If it weren't for the pressure of these nations, Yemen would still be counting the bodies.
25
I'll never understand the purpose of the handwringing over fighting in the middle east between Sunnis and Shia. When a couple million people died during the multi-year war between Iran and Iraq, almost no one noticed. These "tribes" have been killing each other since Mohamed died, and nothing short of killing off the Shia (estimates are them make up only 10 or 15% of Muslims world wide) will end the killing. We need to let the middle east burn and turn our attention to Africa, where our intervention there can actually do some good when it comes to saving innocent lives and stopping criminals and crazies from turning all of Africa upside down.
4
Many are still finding a matching approach to the ever unprecedented Middle Earth.
It is not a Sectarian war in Yemen except the fact that the Houthis (indigenous to Yemen) are fighting the Saudi supported Al-Qaeda and ISIS in Yemen.
Saudis do not want the AQAP and ISIS to be eradicated in Yemen so they are making it a sectarian narrative. Please check the history of conflict in Yemen, do not just repeat what the news channels are reporting from the Saudi sources.
Saudis do not want the AQAP and ISIS to be eradicated in Yemen so they are making it a sectarian narrative. Please check the history of conflict in Yemen, do not just repeat what the news channels are reporting from the Saudi sources.
2
In his recent speech before the US Congress, Benjamin Netanyahu stated that “backed by Iran, Houthis are seizing control of Yemen, threatening the strategic straits at the mouth of the Red Sea.”
This NYT article states that the Saudis are bombing Houthi positions in Yemen.
That makes the Saudis the good guys, right?
This NYT article states that the Saudis are bombing Houthi positions in Yemen.
That makes the Saudis the good guys, right?
4
No, this only make of Netanyahu a liar, misrepresenting the Houthis as some Iranian spawns like Saudi Arabia is doing, while they aren't.
Saudi Arabia is one of the worst dictatorship on earth, calling them the "good guys" is just being in denial of reality or fact like those ones:
"Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism, which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others. Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide, according to Hillary Clinton. According to a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups."" (wikipedia, State-sponsored_terrorism)
Saudi Arabia is one of the worst dictatorship on earth, calling them the "good guys" is just being in denial of reality or fact like those ones:
"Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism, which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others. Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide, according to Hillary Clinton. According to a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups."" (wikipedia, State-sponsored_terrorism)
7
For those decrying the Saudi effort in Yemen, don't forget who the Houthis are: a Shia minority supplied by Iran in a mostly Sunni dominated Yemen that illegally overthrew the Yemeni government by force. They are very similar to the terrorist group Hezbollah - also Shia, both backed by Iran, both follow the same military doctrine and both glorify the Khomeini revolution in Iran. They are being supplied by the Iranians in Iran's illegitimate bid to extend its hegemony in a country (Yemen) with a Sunni majority who oppose both the Iranians and minority Houthis. Let's not put lipstick on a pig
2
"a Shia minority supplied by Iran in a mostly Sunni dominated Yemen that illegally overthrew the Yemeni government by force"
They are 40-45% of the population, of their own religious offshoot not the same as Iran.
They challenged the people who illegally took over after blowing up the last dictator. The Houthis are now joined with the guy who was overthrown after he was badly injured but not killed by that terrorist bomb.
There is no evidence that Iran is actually using the Houthis as proxies, nor that Iran is arming them. The US has admitted that.
The only ones to gain ground by the Saudi intervention have been al Qaeda, who are linked to the Saudis and a Saudi proxy in Syria.
They are 40-45% of the population, of their own religious offshoot not the same as Iran.
They challenged the people who illegally took over after blowing up the last dictator. The Houthis are now joined with the guy who was overthrown after he was badly injured but not killed by that terrorist bomb.
There is no evidence that Iran is actually using the Houthis as proxies, nor that Iran is arming them. The US has admitted that.
The only ones to gain ground by the Saudi intervention have been al Qaeda, who are linked to the Saudis and a Saudi proxy in Syria.
4
I can't wait for your sources backing your unsubstantiated and uncorroborated allegation of any "support" from Iran, all of the Saudi claims so far have been debunked, from dubious Al Arabya uncorroborated "reports" to the US officials parroting them for PR. The only Iranian "support" so far has been one year of free oil and cargo freight of medicine, all the rest has been bogus and plain propaganda...
4
AVR
Please check your sources of mis-information as the Houthis belief systems are more closer to the main stream Sunnis than Shias.
Iran should support the locals as we should and oppose the oppressors in this case it is clearly the Arabs of Saudia, and GCC countries.
Please check your sources of mis-information as the Houthis belief systems are more closer to the main stream Sunnis than Shias.
Iran should support the locals as we should and oppose the oppressors in this case it is clearly the Arabs of Saudia, and GCC countries.
2
The complexity of the situation seems lost on some, but the change in approach from the US is a step in the right direction.
The US is no longer acting as the all-powerful guarantor of peace in the middle east. Our efforts to do that through military force over the last 5 decades did not change the fundamentals of those nations on the ground; it only changed the players involved. The region remains a mess, to say the least.
The peacemaking role, and control of extremist factions, can only be provided by the nations of the Middle East. Only when those nations mitigate the conflicts between themselves and reach a position of equanimity will US security be truly increased.
Unfortunately that is a long time off. In the meantime, staying out of the active fighting is a welcome change.
The less local peoples see of US troops and US warplanes the better. Only when those people see that their governments are the ones involved in the resolution of the conflict, and not the worlds greatest power from 5,000 miles away, do they have the opportunity to shoulder the responsibility that they must bear.
US produced weaponry gives the US a measure of leverage to moderate actions. US naval forces create leverage to control the flow of arms to a conflict area. Those are important factors that will likely diminish in the decades ahead.
The US cannot "solve" the middle east. We must maintain the strength to protect ourselves, but keep our military forces out as best we can.
The US is no longer acting as the all-powerful guarantor of peace in the middle east. Our efforts to do that through military force over the last 5 decades did not change the fundamentals of those nations on the ground; it only changed the players involved. The region remains a mess, to say the least.
The peacemaking role, and control of extremist factions, can only be provided by the nations of the Middle East. Only when those nations mitigate the conflicts between themselves and reach a position of equanimity will US security be truly increased.
Unfortunately that is a long time off. In the meantime, staying out of the active fighting is a welcome change.
The less local peoples see of US troops and US warplanes the better. Only when those people see that their governments are the ones involved in the resolution of the conflict, and not the worlds greatest power from 5,000 miles away, do they have the opportunity to shoulder the responsibility that they must bear.
US produced weaponry gives the US a measure of leverage to moderate actions. US naval forces create leverage to control the flow of arms to a conflict area. Those are important factors that will likely diminish in the decades ahead.
The US cannot "solve" the middle east. We must maintain the strength to protect ourselves, but keep our military forces out as best we can.
17
You want local people to see less of US troops and US warplanes, but you also want US produced weaponry to give the US a measure of leverage to moderate actions.
Sounds like double-speak to me.
Sounds like double-speak to me.
4
"to control the flow of arms": control in this case means selectively supplying Saudi Arabia, Egypt Jordan and the Gulf States with weapon in the hopes that they will protect US and Israeli interests in the area.
Saudi hostility is creating a horrific crisis in this country with their unspeakable horrific actions. They are preventing food, water and medical supplies from getting to the people. These actions are deplorable and unacceptable and must be stopped. Why is the US aiding these despicable crimes against innocent people!
4
The Saudis must be made to cease with these despicable crimes against innocent civilians. Why is America supporting this?
3
Pakistan was able to say "no" to the Saudis but the U.S. cannot. Sad. I guess our government thinks we still need Saudi oil--and they may be right about that.
2
The US cannot say no to the Saudis because they are the biggest customer of American arms.
1
We should be watching closely to see whether the Houthis demonstrate the same level of barbaric brutality as Sunni extremists. Watching all this over the last year, I am getting the feeling that we should pick a side to support in the middle east, and it should be the Shiites. I am still baffled to read that we are supporting Saudi Arabia in matters such as this. What am I missing?
5
Since the time of the Suez Canal cris of the 1950's there has been a golden rule when it comes to wars in the Middle East: Any country who starts a war, always ends up regretting it! Think of Saddam starting wars with Iran and Kuwait, all Israel's wars in Lebanon, the PLO in Jordan in 1974... and so on.
Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen will be no different. In fact it appears that cracks of regret are already starting on the Saudi side. Pakistan, the largest of the "coalition" military forces has refused to send any assistance. Aside from from making the Saudi's look week and isolated, the decision by Pakistan has made the chances of any kind of significant ground force incursion seem remote.
And one more thing that we should not lose sight of: Saudi Arabia's new Defense Minister, Mohammad bin Salman is all but 27 years old! You can rest assured that the Saudi's will regret this war just like Saddam regretted starting the Iran Iraq war. Maybe even more so!
Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen will be no different. In fact it appears that cracks of regret are already starting on the Saudi side. Pakistan, the largest of the "coalition" military forces has refused to send any assistance. Aside from from making the Saudi's look week and isolated, the decision by Pakistan has made the chances of any kind of significant ground force incursion seem remote.
And one more thing that we should not lose sight of: Saudi Arabia's new Defense Minister, Mohammad bin Salman is all but 27 years old! You can rest assured that the Saudi's will regret this war just like Saddam regretted starting the Iran Iraq war. Maybe even more so!
5
"a golden rule when it comes to wars in the Middle East: Any country who starts a war, always ends up regretting it!"
That was true of all the wars of the 20th Century. It was true of most of the wars before that.
Those who start wars have routinely regretted it.
That was true of all the wars of the 20th Century. It was true of most of the wars before that.
Those who start wars have routinely regretted it.
3
The CIA is probably already working with the Houthis in order to combat Al Qaeda in Yemen. I am sure they will soon be supplying them with weapons inspite of the arms embargo.
The Houtis are our ally in this fight against Al Qaeda, but our administration is supporting the Saudis who are directly/indirectly supporting Al Qaeda. Not sure which side are we really on.
The Houtis are our ally in this fight against Al Qaeda, but our administration is supporting the Saudis who are directly/indirectly supporting Al Qaeda. Not sure which side are we really on.
6
This is not a sunni-shia conflict. The biggest threat to the house of Saud and other gulf states is democracy. That is why they fear formation of an inclusive governments in Bahrain and Yemen. The monarchs in these countries do not have any legitimacy in the eye of their people. US and the West should stop supporting a corrupt and radical clan who is the cradle of radicalism and keep propagating extremism by their money and influence as well as their Wahabist Islam.
Iran on the other hand is on its way toward democracy and is a natural ally to US and the West in face of this extremists.
US accuses Iran of helping legitimate resisting parties in Lebanon in face of Israeli occupation and calls it sponsoring terrorism while US helping Israel and Saudi Arabia billions of military aids annually. US and Iran can solve all the issues in the Middle East by working together and this is a nightmare for Netanyahoo and Saudis.
Iran on the other hand is on its way toward democracy and is a natural ally to US and the West in face of this extremists.
US accuses Iran of helping legitimate resisting parties in Lebanon in face of Israeli occupation and calls it sponsoring terrorism while US helping Israel and Saudi Arabia billions of military aids annually. US and Iran can solve all the issues in the Middle East by working together and this is a nightmare for Netanyahoo and Saudis.
9
The point is that religiously motivated violence is not historically unique to Islam, contrary to what many uneducated people seem to believe.It is in Christianity and Judaism.
This does not make the violence any less despicable.
This does not make the violence any less despicable.
3
Are these people serious? Americans may be naive, but they are not stupid.
John
Those who think Muslim extremists have a monopoly on terrorism are living in an information bubble. Like other countries, we have our own extremists bent on using violence to advance their cause, only these days, it's more likely our victims will be shot rather than blown-up.
Until 2001, the largest loss of life on American soil at the hands of terrorists was the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing. There has also been the bombing of the 1996 Atlanta Olympics (as well as three other bombings perpetrated by Eric Rudolph), the 2009 murder of Dr. George Tiller, the 2012 mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Milwaukee, the 2008 shooting of a congregation of Unitarians in Knoxville.
Those who think Muslim extremists have a monopoly on terrorism are living in an information bubble. Like other countries, we have our own extremists bent on using violence to advance their cause, only these days, it's more likely our victims will be shot rather than blown-up.
Until 2001, the largest loss of life on American soil at the hands of terrorists was the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing. There has also been the bombing of the 1996 Atlanta Olympics (as well as three other bombings perpetrated by Eric Rudolph), the 2009 murder of Dr. George Tiller, the 2012 mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Milwaukee, the 2008 shooting of a congregation of Unitarians in Knoxville.
oldest trick in the book- "we are going to stop attacking so you can stop hiding". BOOM!
2
Both the Saudis and Iranians are practiced diplomats (liars) and no progress will ensue until negotiations are conducted in French (a language that has been pruned to free it of unintended ambiguity).
1
War always brings with it its sister, deception.
6
Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship with too many weapons on its hands. It is able to get away with invading another country and imposing an embargo because world powers remain silent. In fact, some of them are providing Saudi Arabia with military assistance even as they claim to be asking Saudi Arabia to restrain itself. Other countries in the region see through this hypocrisy, which comes about when foreign powers try to pick sides in their interventions in the Middle East.
40
There is not evidence, not a shred of evidence has been presented, that the Saudis are somehow waging war against Iran while Iran has been responsible for civil strife in Yemen. Blaming Iran for every lost cat in the Middle East is a bizarre justification for Saudi violence and for an inexcusable American assistance to the violence.
The Saudis are bombing in the middle of cities, which is beyond any reason or excuse rather morally intolerable.
The Saudis are bombing in the middle of cities, which is beyond any reason or excuse rather morally intolerable.
23
They're bombing the middle of cities because that's where the Houthis tend to hide the weapons.
2
The Saudis are intent on sectarian "ethnic subjugation and exploitation" through the Middle East. They have been striking Yemen violently for years and now with American assistance. There is no reason for the Saudi warring or the American assistance.
20
The US State spokesman said we pressured the Saudis to stop the bombing because there was too much collateral damage. I guess only USA is allowed to create collateral damage
20
America blame game... yawn....
4
Does anyone else appreciate the double standard here?
Saudi Arabia, in protecting its own interests, bombs Yemen, to destroy missiles placed in the hands on the Houthi's by Iran, to be used as a proxy war in their hatred of the Saudi Kingdom. There are many unintentional civilian casualties, aka "collateral damage". No fault here, the Houthi's have attacked Yemen, seeking its overthrow, a direct threat to the House of Saud, its enemy, and now neighboring country.
Roll back to last summer.
Israel, in protecting its own interests, does its best to pinpoint their bombing of Gaza, to destroy missiles that were being fired at them in an attempt by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties in Israel, its neighbor. Many unintentional civilian casualties in Gaza, a much more densely populated region in general than Yemen, a much more difficult objective. The western world goes bananas. Words like "holocaust", and "Genocide" are thrown about in the world press.
Please explain to me why Saudi Arabia basically gets a pass for collateral damage from what is basically a preemptive strike, while Israel, who was being actively fired upon at the time, gets vilified.
Saudi Arabia, in protecting its own interests, bombs Yemen, to destroy missiles placed in the hands on the Houthi's by Iran, to be used as a proxy war in their hatred of the Saudi Kingdom. There are many unintentional civilian casualties, aka "collateral damage". No fault here, the Houthi's have attacked Yemen, seeking its overthrow, a direct threat to the House of Saud, its enemy, and now neighboring country.
Roll back to last summer.
Israel, in protecting its own interests, does its best to pinpoint their bombing of Gaza, to destroy missiles that were being fired at them in an attempt by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties in Israel, its neighbor. Many unintentional civilian casualties in Gaza, a much more densely populated region in general than Yemen, a much more difficult objective. The western world goes bananas. Words like "holocaust", and "Genocide" are thrown about in the world press.
Please explain to me why Saudi Arabia basically gets a pass for collateral damage from what is basically a preemptive strike, while Israel, who was being actively fired upon at the time, gets vilified.
10
Lack of oil fields in Israel.
2
The answer is simple;
At least Saudis are not occupying any other People´s land while israel does.
At least Saudis are not occupying any other People´s land while israel does.
2
Because the Saudi's are not Jews?
2
If Mr. Fahim had bothered to read the Saudi statement declaring an end to Operation 'Decisive Storm' (and the beginning of the new operation) he would have found that the Saudi's clearly said they would continue to bomb Houti troop movements and concentrations. I find it amazing that a journalist earning money to write a report in the New York Times doesn't even know the most basic facts about what he is writing.
5
The President seems to taking a leaf from the Kissinger playbook: playing the Saudis and the Iranians against each other--as Kissinger did with China and the Soviet Union. The United States seems to be keeping its friends close and its enemies closer.
The problem is that it won't work unless you are a cold-blooded operator like Kissinger.
The problem is that it won't work unless you are a cold-blooded operator like Kissinger.
1
Why are we involved. Saudi Arabia is the largest country in the Middle East and also has the fourth-highest military spending of any country in the world. Let them handle it the way they want. On the other hand, the country's arms buildup has largely been driven by sales from the US and other Western countries.
3
Obama you are naive to back up the Saudi Arabians. They were the reason 9-11 happened in America yet America supports them it is beyond stupid. We never learn and Iran has generally been a peaceful nation. We overthrew there leader in 1979 so I respect there anger towards America. We should have never done that that was the biggest mistake in America history.
4
Iran is the only stable state in the region from the Indus to the Nile, with a large youthful population and great economic potential. The sunnis are behind almost all of the mischief in the ME from Al-Q to 9/11 to the nihilist Isis.
The Iranians have legitimate historic grievances against the west (US & Britain).yet are not the money nor sponsorship of terror and the ridiculous caliphate..The US-Iran is the most sensible alliance in the area with the sunni actors the enemies of the west.
Israel, another mischief maker. no.longer gets to dictate US policy. If they choose to feud with the shias, so be it, but their tribal feuds should not in any way affect US policy. Iran will be prospering long after Isis, SA & Israel are blown off the stage of history.
The Iranians have legitimate historic grievances against the west (US & Britain).yet are not the money nor sponsorship of terror and the ridiculous caliphate..The US-Iran is the most sensible alliance in the area with the sunni actors the enemies of the west.
Israel, another mischief maker. no.longer gets to dictate US policy. If they choose to feud with the shias, so be it, but their tribal feuds should not in any way affect US policy. Iran will be prospering long after Isis, SA & Israel are blown off the stage of history.
3
Your comment reveals your ignorance. The Saudi government was a TARGET of Osama bin Laden & Co., as was the US. Don't be stupid, spend time studying the history of what we in the West call the 'Middle' East.
Is Saudi Arabia the new Israel?
9
Do you mean in terms of them being thrown under the bus by President Obama's administration?
1
Lets subsidize the continued production of shale oil in Montana, lets provide tax benefits for eletric cars and conservation, and lets bring the troops home. Let China keep the peace in the tribal Arabian peninsula and spend their boold and treasure.
1
Knock them from the 2nd to the 1st, century. This is nonsense and must be stopped. The Saudi's understand this. leave them alone.
2
The Saudi's must be taking lessons from us. "We reserve the right to bomb you again." Sounds like a phrase right out of our playbook.
6
The Houthis are also fighting al Qaeda in the Eastern part of Yemen. The Saudi bombing has been helping al Qaeda, and al Qaeda has made advances against the Houthis.
Again, the people the Houthis are fighting are not our friends.
We are on the wrong side of this.
Some people say, without evidence so far, that Iran backs the Houthis, They conclude therefore we must oppose them.
Some say we must side with the Saudis, ignoring all the past of Saudi support for al Qaeda from bin Laden through Syria today.
Following these ideas, we end up helping al Qaeda and long term US enemies in the south of Yemen. We end up assisting yet another country to use our planes and bombs and other assistance against helpless civilians and densely populated towns.
This is sick.
Again, the people the Houthis are fighting are not our friends.
We are on the wrong side of this.
Some people say, without evidence so far, that Iran backs the Houthis, They conclude therefore we must oppose them.
Some say we must side with the Saudis, ignoring all the past of Saudi support for al Qaeda from bin Laden through Syria today.
Following these ideas, we end up helping al Qaeda and long term US enemies in the south of Yemen. We end up assisting yet another country to use our planes and bombs and other assistance against helpless civilians and densely populated towns.
This is sick.
80
Mark:
Long long time ago , in an America far far away, a then respected "anti-colonial" president said, "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence ... the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Why? Because ....
"a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification."
Long long time ago , in an America far far away, a then respected "anti-colonial" president said, "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence ... the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Why? Because ....
"a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification."
3
Actually there are another group that isn't associated with al qaeda or the houthis. They kinda of support the president that was just thrown out but mostly just want the war to end. That's the one the Saudis are helping.
Any way one analyzes this scenario, it is a huge cluster muck. There are no clear answers and US and world leaders, strategists, and pundits - including the commenters here - can only speculate. Given the highly speculative nature of the events and any attempt to draw inferences or conclusions, particularly in light of the risks of escalation, we had best stay out of this brewing conflagration.
Our ME policy is beyond comprehension.
Our ME policy is beyond comprehension.
1
"between the Houthis and their adversaries, mainly local fighters who favor an independent, southern state"
In the past, the southern independence movement has been hostile to the US. It began as the anticolonial movement against the British in Aden, and transfered that hostility to the US as the US took over the British position in the region.
The people the Houthis are fighting are not our friends.
In the past, the southern independence movement has been hostile to the US. It began as the anticolonial movement against the British in Aden, and transfered that hostility to the US as the US took over the British position in the region.
The people the Houthis are fighting are not our friends.
19
This misadventure of the House of Saud in Yemen, led by novices, was doomed from the beginning. As it was beginning, Iran laid out a 4-point program for negotiations and humanitarian aid. Erdogan went to Iran and promptly cooled his rhetoric and backed Iran's call for negotiations. Iranian FM Zarif traveled to Oman and Pakistan. Then the Pakistani parliament subsequently voted unanimously not to get involved. (You have to wonder what advice China gave Pakistan.) Now Egypt is also calling for a negotiated settlement.
This whole affair is going to have serious negative repercussions for the House of Saud. The absolutely disastrous decision by the Obama administration to back up this operation will simply accelerate the downward spiral of US fortunes in the region.
Excellent performance by Dr. Zarif, one of the world's premier diplomats.
This whole affair is going to have serious negative repercussions for the House of Saud. The absolutely disastrous decision by the Obama administration to back up this operation will simply accelerate the downward spiral of US fortunes in the region.
Excellent performance by Dr. Zarif, one of the world's premier diplomats.
101
Honestly, I don't trust what western media reports anymore, I glean much of my knowledge from the comments made regarding the article.
3
This statement has stayed with me since I read it, and thought it was important to know the background of who we are dealing with.
"The stakes may be highest for the Saudi king’s son, Prince Mohammed bin Salman, whom the king named both defense minister and chief of the royal court. The Saudi government has not disclosed Prince Mohammed’s precise age, but he is believed to be around 30. He was one of the only men in his generation of the royal family to be educated entirely in Saudi Arabia, with no schooling abroad."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/world/middleeast/yemen-al-qaeda-attack...
"The stakes may be highest for the Saudi king’s son, Prince Mohammed bin Salman, whom the king named both defense minister and chief of the royal court. The Saudi government has not disclosed Prince Mohammed’s precise age, but he is believed to be around 30. He was one of the only men in his generation of the royal family to be educated entirely in Saudi Arabia, with no schooling abroad."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/world/middleeast/yemen-al-qaeda-attack...
17
In order to intelligently decipher the bias in the reporting one must know and research the facts about the parties in the conflict. Its history and the embedded realities.
Yemen's vows go back a long time, its tribal society and its culture. Houthis are not rebels from overseas, they are the 40% or so of the indigenous population of Yemen, particularly in Northern Yemen. Syria the rebels are mostly imported and not the local population that we support against the government.
Only one thing is consistent, we support the outsiders with the Saudis in both places whereas Iran supports the locals in both cases in Syria and in Yemen. One lesson we learnt from Vietnam was that as an invading force we cannot defeat locals. It did not happen then and would not happen now. Time for us to back the locals if we do want to stop the killings.
Another major factor is the MIC factor. With the killing continuing the Military Industrial Complex (and the neocons) see big dollar signs, I mean mega as in Billions of Dollars of killing machines that the stupid Arabs would buy their war wares.
Maybe sanity would prevails, but with Arab culture even the Prophet of Islam did not succeed in stopping their wars and it continues today. I do not have much hope of peace in Arabistan. Let's untangle our policies from them.
President Obama, Pivot East quickly please.
Yemen's vows go back a long time, its tribal society and its culture. Houthis are not rebels from overseas, they are the 40% or so of the indigenous population of Yemen, particularly in Northern Yemen. Syria the rebels are mostly imported and not the local population that we support against the government.
Only one thing is consistent, we support the outsiders with the Saudis in both places whereas Iran supports the locals in both cases in Syria and in Yemen. One lesson we learnt from Vietnam was that as an invading force we cannot defeat locals. It did not happen then and would not happen now. Time for us to back the locals if we do want to stop the killings.
Another major factor is the MIC factor. With the killing continuing the Military Industrial Complex (and the neocons) see big dollar signs, I mean mega as in Billions of Dollars of killing machines that the stupid Arabs would buy their war wares.
Maybe sanity would prevails, but with Arab culture even the Prophet of Islam did not succeed in stopping their wars and it continues today. I do not have much hope of peace in Arabistan. Let's untangle our policies from them.
President Obama, Pivot East quickly please.
25
Not only are we supporting outsiders against the local, but some of our friends are supporting the locals.
It isn't just Iran supporting Houthis, if it even is Iran, there being no evidence but the accusations of people not especially trustworthy themselves.
Turkey and Pakistan are agreeing with Iran, siding off against the new military dictators of Egypt and the decrepit monarchy of the Saud family. Of this collection of US friends, all are troublesome, but we have picked the worst of the lost against the rest.
It isn't just Iran supporting Houthis, if it even is Iran, there being no evidence but the accusations of people not especially trustworthy themselves.
Turkey and Pakistan are agreeing with Iran, siding off against the new military dictators of Egypt and the decrepit monarchy of the Saud family. Of this collection of US friends, all are troublesome, but we have picked the worst of the lost against the rest.
7
Mark, I do agree with you that we have picked the worst of the lot against the rest. I only wish that we would have trusted Sultan Qaboos of Oman's judgement re the Yemen situation who stayed out of this mess in his own neighbourhood.
2
Obama had better come to the aid of the Saudis if this situation worsens. Pragmatism trumps all in this case. Putting the largest crude oil producer at risk is an invitation to disaster. The Saudis may be the source of a lot of problems, including Islamic terrorism, but they remain an American ally when it comes to the product that still drives the energy engine of this country. We'll see if Obama is up to the task of confronting Iran over shipping arms to the Houthis in Yemen, while he is simultaneously in the process of capitulating to their nuclear demands.
It is this adventure that is putting the Saudis at risk, not the local disputes of Yemen.
The Houthis don't threaten Saudis.
A bungled intractable war does, a war in one of the worst places on Earth to intervene, in complete collapse even before the war.
If we mean to save the Saudis, we would end this before it gets worse for them. They bungled.
The Houthis don't threaten Saudis.
A bungled intractable war does, a war in one of the worst places on Earth to intervene, in complete collapse even before the war.
If we mean to save the Saudis, we would end this before it gets worse for them. They bungled.
3
I disagree with your coment completely. In all due respect
Do the Saudis ever bomb Al-Quaeda forces?
50
The answer to that question tells us everything. The very definition of "Kafkaesque" is bureaucratic absurdity beyond Catch-22.
The Obama administration owes the American people an explanation for the apparent wrongheaded assault on impoverished Yemeni civilians.
There is also a need for clarification regarding Iran's role in instigating this conflict. Reuters, AP, NY Times claim either narrative on any given day. On Monday the Obama administration justified sending battleships because of increase military moves from Iran. In the meantime, there are claims that the Saudi blockade is preventing food and medicine from Iranian ships to reach starving Yemeni.
Which is it ?
The Obama administration owes the American people an explanation for the apparent wrongheaded assault on impoverished Yemeni civilians.
There is also a need for clarification regarding Iran's role in instigating this conflict. Reuters, AP, NY Times claim either narrative on any given day. On Monday the Obama administration justified sending battleships because of increase military moves from Iran. In the meantime, there are claims that the Saudi blockade is preventing food and medicine from Iranian ships to reach starving Yemeni.
Which is it ?
1
Marie, I like your throwing all the crazy literary references, Kafka and Heller, wow that makes it really absurd.
Yes I know all the other and wonder about it too, I was just trying to distill my frustration into a simple, poignant comment.
Yes I know all the other and wonder about it too, I was just trying to distill my frustration into a simple, poignant comment.
Wasn't it just last Fall that Yemen was being touted as an example of our successful policy in the Middle East? Or maybe it was that ISIS was the JV? Oh well...Old news...Never mind. Next news cycle please.
3
The United Arab Emirates have also carried out airstrikes as part of the campaign, and the United States has contributed logistical and intelligence support.
On Tuesday, the Saudis said they retained the right to “counter any military moves by the Houthis or their allies,” a possible signal that they intended to continue their military intervention by other means, like financing proxy troops.
With our assistance, what' we're doing combined with the Saudi's involvement militarily, sounds an awful lot like what the rest of the world is accusing Iran of fomenting and engaging in in the same region.
Could it be that the Great Satan is no so unlike the rest of us, when you get right down to it and past all the negative religious, cultural and moral stereotypical personifications.
On Tuesday, the Saudis said they retained the right to “counter any military moves by the Houthis or their allies,” a possible signal that they intended to continue their military intervention by other means, like financing proxy troops.
With our assistance, what' we're doing combined with the Saudi's involvement militarily, sounds an awful lot like what the rest of the world is accusing Iran of fomenting and engaging in in the same region.
Could it be that the Great Satan is no so unlike the rest of us, when you get right down to it and past all the negative religious, cultural and moral stereotypical personifications.
8
BINGO, Iver!
This is the whole objective of "The Global Empire's New Map".
This is the whole objective of "The Global Empire's New Map".
4
Saudi Arabia is the second largest oil producer/reserve in the world after Russia. Unfortunately, we will always take the Saudi side to protect the oil. If Saudi Arabia is threatened then the world's energy is threatened. If it falls in the hands of any uncontrollable group (such as the Houthis or even worse Al-Qaida) then Europe's economy would fall and with it the US economy.
So we cannot have that happen. Thats the crude reality.
So we cannot have that happen. Thats the crude reality.
12
Yes, Mides, unfortunately that's the necessary and 'offensive' game plan of this fist and only truly Disguised Global Capitalist Empire --- which most of the deluded and propagandized 'subjects' of the Empire still call "our country" and call themselves "we", despite Hannah Arendt's prescient warning from her painful experience at the hands of a previous and less well disguised Empire:
"Empire abroad entails tyranny at home"
"We're" not there quite yet, Mides.
"Empire abroad entails tyranny at home"
"We're" not there quite yet, Mides.
6
The crude reality is the the Saudis bungled by jumping into this.
We don't protect them by helping them dig a deeper hole.
We don't protect them by helping them dig a deeper hole.
4
The Houthis are a threat to Saudi Arabia? You jest!
It seems that in our alacrity to support the Saudis and the Sunnis and oppose the Iranians (while pleasing Israel) we're forgetting that we're also empowering Al Qaeda and ISIS too. To wit we're now fighting on the same side as Al Qaeda in Yemen whether we wish to acknowledge it or not. Al Qaeda used the chaos to stage a major prison break and are launching attacks on the Houthis too.
This is on a scale with the lunacy that spawned Al Qaeda to begin with; St. Ronald Reagan's decision to arm Islamic militants to fight the Russians in Afghanistan thirty years ago along with George W's decision to invade Iraq which has given us ISIS.
We may not learn from our mistakes but then our 'mistakes' do enrich defense contractors so really what's the problem?
This is on a scale with the lunacy that spawned Al Qaeda to begin with; St. Ronald Reagan's decision to arm Islamic militants to fight the Russians in Afghanistan thirty years ago along with George W's decision to invade Iraq which has given us ISIS.
We may not learn from our mistakes but then our 'mistakes' do enrich defense contractors so really what's the problem?
24
In case no one here noticed, the rest of the world wages war a little differently than we do. You don't get court-martialed or jail time for beheading innocent civilians. Are oligarchs and kings preferable to a group of radicals who kill any dissenters and "non-believers" in the name of their religion? I don't know the answer to that, but being a Christian marked for beheading, I think I know which way to lean. In any event, our influence has waned so much in the past decade. We need to keep our distance and let the locals resolve their problems as they see fit. This should include Iran.
Is the White House seriously considering offering billions to sweeten the deal while sending a carrier task force?
Is the White House seriously considering offering billions to sweeten the deal while sending a carrier task force?
5
So we ought to sink to the level ASAP?
In WW2, out strengths included that we were the good guys, and with the BBC people could hear the truth.
Now we gave up good guys and truth. That weakens us.
In WW2, out strengths included that we were the good guys, and with the BBC people could hear the truth.
Now we gave up good guys and truth. That weakens us.
3
Do we have a president here? Where is he and his Yemen success story?
6
But, John, this IS Obama's success story for his superiors running this "Empire of Chaos" --- that's the objective, man.
1
Golfing
Didn't Obama moved the carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt into Yemeni water yesterday to "blockade" Iran? In this another UN arms embargo on Libya that turned into US bombing Libya and overthrowing the government? Going to be hard to tell from the ground as the Saudi, Egyptan and American all use planes and bombs made by the US military industrial complex.
8
The US capital ships are vulnerable to Iranian small boat swarm tactics and although the air defenses certainly must be improved, anti-ship missles like the Exocets in the 82 Falklands war are cheap and lethal.
“We hope that everybody will return to dialogue to solve and treat all the issues".
These islamist terrorist groups do not believe in dialogue.
These islamist terrorist groups do not believe in dialogue.
2
In the midst of all the chaos and bloodshed al-Qaeda grows stronger. We're watching the mice kill each other off while the rats wait to take over.
13
stu, if by, "the big rats" you mean the predatory and hidden cancer of the best Disguised and first truly 'Global' Capitalist Empire, or the "Empire of Chaos" (as Pepe Escobar calls it), "Empire of Illusion" (as Chris Hedges wrote), and highly integrated, but well hidden, six-sectored; corporate, financial, militarist, media/propaganda, extra-legal, and dual-party Vichy-political facade of global Empire 'posing' as, and HQed in our former country, then yes --- we mice are watching that predatory 'big rat' run what Thomas Barnett calls its strategy of "The Pentagon's New Map" --- but what is really PNAC II on steroids and is better described as "The Global Empire's New Map"
5
In the conclusion of this New York Times front page article today, the former oligarchical president of Yemen, now disposed, Ali Abdullah Saleh, is quoted as saying, “We hope that everybody will return to dialogue to solve and treat all the issues."
This is a very revealing comment from any figure-head 'leader' whose oligarchic, dictatorial, and local imperialist ways have been exposed, understood, and confronted by 'a people' willing and able to overthrow his imperialist scam.
When such corrective actions are taken by a people willing to use violence, the formerly imperialist leader and his elitist gang generally claim to want dialogue instead of the oppression that the former so-called president and real oligarchic, 'empire-thinking', and local Emperor employed.
Naturally, it is preferable if 'the people' diagnose, expose, and confront any local or global Empire with non-violence --- since non-violent overthrow of petty or great Empires is more effective, lasting, and humane than violent Revolution.
However, this simple and obvious lesson that Saleh describes would be a good 'learning moment', as Obama likes to say, for any of the Vichy Empire candidates now auditioning to replace him as faux-Emperor/president of this Disguised Global Capitalist Empire only 'posing' as, and HQed in, our former country.
Liberty, democracy, justice, and equality
Over
Violent/Vichy
Empire,
Alan MacDonald
Wells, Maine
This is a very revealing comment from any figure-head 'leader' whose oligarchic, dictatorial, and local imperialist ways have been exposed, understood, and confronted by 'a people' willing and able to overthrow his imperialist scam.
When such corrective actions are taken by a people willing to use violence, the formerly imperialist leader and his elitist gang generally claim to want dialogue instead of the oppression that the former so-called president and real oligarchic, 'empire-thinking', and local Emperor employed.
Naturally, it is preferable if 'the people' diagnose, expose, and confront any local or global Empire with non-violence --- since non-violent overthrow of petty or great Empires is more effective, lasting, and humane than violent Revolution.
However, this simple and obvious lesson that Saleh describes would be a good 'learning moment', as Obama likes to say, for any of the Vichy Empire candidates now auditioning to replace him as faux-Emperor/president of this Disguised Global Capitalist Empire only 'posing' as, and HQed in, our former country.
Liberty, democracy, justice, and equality
Over
Violent/Vichy
Empire,
Alan MacDonald
Wells, Maine
9
Lets get out of that region is that too hard to ask we have bankrupted ourselves. I am still in shock that we sent a warship over there. We are basically taking Saudi Arabia side. Everytime we take sides we just inflame the situation even further. When are we going to learn our lesson. I am starting to think never.
39
Jesse, Saudi Arabia, like Israel, is really just a 'border-fort' and sub-Empire component of the Disguised Global Capitalist Empire HQed right here in River City.
15
The Saudis simply cannot be trusted. The House of Saud is violently opposed to a coalition nuclear verification agreement with Iran, yet they continue to stir the pot with air strikes against Shiite. The 9/11 masterminds were funded by Sunni hard-liners in Saudi Arabia but the Bush administration looked the other way. The U.S. needs to reassess its priorities in this blighted area, and that includes Israel as well. America spends billions bolstering one corrupt regime which is in opposition to another, also in the pay of Uncle Sam, while taxpayers pay the price. And for what? The Sunni-Shia divisions were centuries old before the Pilgrims arrived in the New World in the 17th century. We don't need Saudi oil or intransigence in the midst of delicate negotiations now underway between the P5 nations and Iran. This airstrike is simply to let us know the House of Saud has a hand in the game. They sell us their oil and we give them our soul.
35
According to the article, the Saudis only said they were stopping the bombing campaign (as in: at some point). They never gave a time. Allegedly, the Arab perspective on time is much more relaxed. So I wonder if there is a cultural difference here. Just because the Saudis said they would stop doesn't mean right then and there. It seems inappropriate for the article and readers to jump on the Saudis as if they had broken their word. I would take their statement as one of general intent, Allah willing.
1
I'm waiting for Saudi nationals as infantry- sated and decadent, flying US warplanes is a rich man's sport. No, the Saudis have the plunder to employ the likes of Eric Prince. Mercenaries work well until they are confronted by millions of motivated nationalists such as there are in Iran.
Iran is publically working its people into anger against the Saudis, on some pretext,. Saudi is no match for Iran's highly motivated citizenry numbering some 80 million, a good percetage of fighting age.
If the US government was acting in support of its citizen and own national intetests, it would throw over the nettlesome Israelis and malignant and decadent Saudis for an alliance with the expanding power in the region Iran. US-Iran interests coincide in opposition to the sunni terrorists (Al-Q, Isis, Saudi ideology, Saddamists, Libyan factions) and oil. The defense of Israel is not in the US interest nor a moral.responsibility but rather if any a EU one.
Iran is publically working its people into anger against the Saudis, on some pretext,. Saudi is no match for Iran's highly motivated citizenry numbering some 80 million, a good percetage of fighting age.
If the US government was acting in support of its citizen and own national intetests, it would throw over the nettlesome Israelis and malignant and decadent Saudis for an alliance with the expanding power in the region Iran. US-Iran interests coincide in opposition to the sunni terrorists (Al-Q, Isis, Saudi ideology, Saddamists, Libyan factions) and oil. The defense of Israel is not in the US interest nor a moral.responsibility but rather if any a EU one.
1
The US is assisting the Saudis in bombing Yemen. This is because Yemen is NEXT DOOR to the Kingdom. Maybe the Saudis are afraid the war will spill over into their country?
4
Why worry. Saudis Arabia is mostly desert.
2
Contrary to the wisdom of the new Foreign Policy darling Marco Rubio, who recently claimed that Iran is destabilizing the ME, the history of the post 9/11 World tells us that Saudi Arabia is the mother of all Jihadists efforts to burn the United States everywhere along the arch of conflict.
Iran has invaded no one since the 19th Century, and that was a localized territorial dispute. Not a shred of evidence exists that Iran has a nuclear weaponization program.
The immediate causes of the political implosion in the ME are all linked to the obliteration of the borders prescribed by the Sykes Picot Agreement, brokered (imposed) by Britain, when the US decided to invade Iraq, force regime change, and scare the bejesus out of the Ultra Conservative Saudi Kingdom by empowering the Iraqi Shia Majority to align its oil producing potential with the resources and distribution potential of Iran.
We invaded Iraq for no particular reason! The name Saddam was mentioned in connection with 9/11, and that we should never forget by our President immediately after the Twin Towers came down, and inspired (deceived) by his conflation of events, we did a rapid shift from fighting the Saudi created menace in Afghanistan to fighting our former ally, Saddam H, whom we had engaged to fight a proxy war for us against Iran. Why? Who knows? But it probably had something to do with oil.
Now in a panic the Kingdom has decided to lash out at all things Shia. So they bomb, and we provide the planes.
Iran has invaded no one since the 19th Century, and that was a localized territorial dispute. Not a shred of evidence exists that Iran has a nuclear weaponization program.
The immediate causes of the political implosion in the ME are all linked to the obliteration of the borders prescribed by the Sykes Picot Agreement, brokered (imposed) by Britain, when the US decided to invade Iraq, force regime change, and scare the bejesus out of the Ultra Conservative Saudi Kingdom by empowering the Iraqi Shia Majority to align its oil producing potential with the resources and distribution potential of Iran.
We invaded Iraq for no particular reason! The name Saddam was mentioned in connection with 9/11, and that we should never forget by our President immediately after the Twin Towers came down, and inspired (deceived) by his conflation of events, we did a rapid shift from fighting the Saudi created menace in Afghanistan to fighting our former ally, Saddam H, whom we had engaged to fight a proxy war for us against Iran. Why? Who knows? But it probably had something to do with oil.
Now in a panic the Kingdom has decided to lash out at all things Shia. So they bomb, and we provide the planes.
13
The US national interest coincides with that of Iran, not the sunni terrorist ideology developed in SA; nor Israel, a transient historical anomaly most analogous to the European crusader states 1099- 1291 (fall of Acre), and will end similarly in time.
1
We are supporting the Saudis, because Yemen is NEXT DOOR to the Kingdom. Maybe the Saudis are afraid the Yemen war will spill over?
2
Spill over into what; an uninhabitable desert?
1
Yemen consists primarily of two principal Islamic religious groups: 60%–65% of the Muslim population is Sunni and 35%–40% is Shia, according to the International Religious Freedom Report. "YEMEN 2012 INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM REPORT". U.S. Department of State. We're supporting the slender majority Suni led by the Saudis who are opposed to Iran's Shia proxies, the Houthis..
1
You can trust the Saudis--to renege on their promises, to lie, and to make unprovoked attacks on a much smaller country.
Why does the United States conduct normal diplomatic relations with the Saudi monarchy, which has a unique record of human rights violations?
And when is the United States going to release that 28-page report describing the relations between the 9/11 Saudi attackers and the Saudi monarchy?
Why does the United States conduct normal diplomatic relations with the Saudi monarchy, which has a unique record of human rights violations?
And when is the United States going to release that 28-page report describing the relations between the 9/11 Saudi attackers and the Saudi monarchy?
20
It's obvious without Saudi Arabian boots on the ground in the tens of thousands Yemen will turn into another Libya, Iraq or Syria. Yemen may even be worse as it's population of 24 million has no local sources of food, water supplies are marginal and electricity is knocked out in many areas. Yemen has a long border with Saudi Arabia, and if the Kingdom wants to end chaos and terror group consolidation along that border, it will have to do more than drop bombs.
5
The biggest threat to the Saudis would be to assume the burden of Yemen's people and economy. Even they don't have that much money.
3
I am surprised that the U.N. and the community of nations is silent about the Saudi attack on Yemen, a sovereign nation. I thought it was the duty of the U.N to intervene when one country attacks another without provocation. Is this because Yemen is just another small impoverished nation?
100
The Saudis have oil and gas along with a breeding ground for al Qaeda and ISIL and their affiliates. All necessary fuel for the American military-industrial complex imperial colonial exceptional mission.
Yemen is not "small". About 20% of the 31 million people living in Saudi Arabia are foreign nationals serving as workers who are not Saudi citizens. Yemen with 24 million people has as many citizens as Saudi Arabia. The Yemeni Shia Muslim Houthi ,who are 35% of Yemen' s citizens, have been humbling and humiliating theocratic Saudi royal autocrats for decades. A crescent of Shiites from Yemen to Syria to Bahrain to Iraq and Iran standing against the Sunni Muslim al Qaeada and ISIL and their affiliates is in America's interests.
The Houthi will not be shocked nor awed into allowing Saudi KIng Salman to prance around amidst American arms proclaiming "Mission Accomplished". Americans watching Fox News and reading the WSJ are ignorant about all of the pertinent ethnic sectarian history and news for this and other conflicts.
Yemen is not "small". About 20% of the 31 million people living in Saudi Arabia are foreign nationals serving as workers who are not Saudi citizens. Yemen with 24 million people has as many citizens as Saudi Arabia. The Yemeni Shia Muslim Houthi ,who are 35% of Yemen' s citizens, have been humbling and humiliating theocratic Saudi royal autocrats for decades. A crescent of Shiites from Yemen to Syria to Bahrain to Iraq and Iran standing against the Sunni Muslim al Qaeada and ISIL and their affiliates is in America's interests.
The Houthi will not be shocked nor awed into allowing Saudi KIng Salman to prance around amidst American arms proclaiming "Mission Accomplished". Americans watching Fox News and reading the WSJ are ignorant about all of the pertinent ethnic sectarian history and news for this and other conflicts.
6
No that is because Israel is not involved.
"silent about the Saudi attack on Yemen"
It is not silent, you just are not listening. Turkey and Pakistan already are leading others against, and are calling for a immediate end of this, and talks.
It is not silent, you just are not listening. Turkey and Pakistan already are leading others against, and are calling for a immediate end of this, and talks.
5
Obama is desperate to reach an agreement any any cost with Iran. He is willing to sacrifice the safety and security of the United States to achieve his goal.
Forcing the Saudi's to suspend their bombing campaign is just one example of his desperation. It's time for Obama to fulfill his oath of office versus implementing his personal beliefs and agenda.
Forcing the Saudi's to suspend their bombing campaign is just one example of his desperation. It's time for Obama to fulfill his oath of office versus implementing his personal beliefs and agenda.
4
"The name of the Saudi operation was also changed, to “Renewal of Hope” from “Decisive Storm.”"
Did they really do that? Change the name of the operation? Because it is a little pathetic.
Did they really do that? Change the name of the operation? Because it is a little pathetic.
Twenty some years after the first gulf war, we still seem to know as little about what motivates the turmoil in this area as we did then. We didn't understand Somalia, we didn't understand Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and finally we don't understand Yemen, Syria and Iraq. We should just stay out of it. Keep talking to Iran and be careful with the Saudis. We need to focus on our own country and let the Middle East take care of the Middle East.
13
We understand the situation rather well. There are no simple solutions because of the number of players and the number of issues, some of which are in our self-interest to pursue with regard to one country but self-defeating when analyzed from a regional or global point of view. Honoring our commitments to allies leads us into actions that may win the battle but lose the war. Perhaps it is time to recuse ourselves from the Middle East including the Levant until the Shia and Sunni realize that the true successor to Mohammed, Ali or Abu Bakr, will never be known with certainty (unless time travel is invented) and that Mohammed's medieval, evangelical imperative was just the political instantiation of his need for subjugation.
1
We do have people who understand. Our government makes it a point not to listen to them. It listens instead to campaign donors.
4
Our role, our hope of any deterrence, has been diluted away. Our leadership has no clear policy in the Middle East, no deterrence against Putin aggression, or Iran nuclear ambitions, or Chinese, or Islamic extremism. We are sweet talking them to our own oblivion.
2
The theory of deterrence brings peace only when it goes both ways, as with Mutually Assured Destruction.
Putin is trying to deter us. Yes, we are trying to deter him too. Deterrence there is out of control and blowing up, like WW1.
Likewise, whatever the details, Iran's nuclear ambitions have a large element of deterrence. Of course our side is trying to deter them too. Again, mutuality is essential to this producing peace. Both sides must agree to be deterred from the other's vital interests. That is what the negotiations are about.
Otherwise, you just get wars. We've been getting a lot of that. It seems too many just don't get the basic idea of deterrence, mutuality, both sides being deterred, not just one while the other rolls over them.
Putin is trying to deter us. Yes, we are trying to deter him too. Deterrence there is out of control and blowing up, like WW1.
Likewise, whatever the details, Iran's nuclear ambitions have a large element of deterrence. Of course our side is trying to deter them too. Again, mutuality is essential to this producing peace. Both sides must agree to be deterred from the other's vital interests. That is what the negotiations are about.
Otherwise, you just get wars. We've been getting a lot of that. It seems too many just don't get the basic idea of deterrence, mutuality, both sides being deterred, not just one while the other rolls over them.
3
Mark, I disagree. If we don't have the big stick that Teddy Roosevelt referred to, dictators and extremists will continue to run amok. Appeasement of Hitler didn't work, and there was no country with military might to deter him. Mutuality has nothing to do with it.
1
One last bombing run to make sure the job's done.
1
It is sad that the region is in chaos and there is no gestures towards peace coming from the US. We need ALL parties to come together and discuss the survival of the region. Sadder still is the GOP field calling for more war and chiding Obama as weak. Where are the peacemakers?
9
The increasingly crazed dynamic of the Yemen conflict - the Saudis are bombing! no, they've stopped and declared victory! no, wait, now they are bombing again! oops, they just bombed a school! - is the predictable result of the US decision to step back from playing a direct leadership role in the Middle East. Admittedly, Obama's leading from behind strategy is defensible. After all, it is Their part of the world, and the American public long ago tired of sacrificing blood and treasure for Them. But as the entire region descends into carnage and chaos, we had all better cross our fingers the flames do not burn too closely to our shores.
4
The Saudi have no idea what they are doing. As Iran have called out, the Saudi defense minister is a 30 years old prince with a BA in law.
5
"the predictable result of the US decision to step back"
The US has not stepped back.
Its carrier group just sailed right into the middle of this.
The US is providing essential support to the Saudi air campaign, which couldn't do this without our help.
If we'd refused, they could not have done this. The Teddy Roosevelt carrier group moving in is not "stepping back."
The US has not stepped back.
Its carrier group just sailed right into the middle of this.
The US is providing essential support to the Saudi air campaign, which couldn't do this without our help.
If we'd refused, they could not have done this. The Teddy Roosevelt carrier group moving in is not "stepping back."
3
Unfortunately, the Saudis' disgraceful disregard for Yemen's sovereignty, as well as for human life, is matched only by the Obama administration's support for the actions of this reactionary monarchy.
30
Obama is paying the price demanded by the Saudis for their reluctant support of the deal with Iran. The Saudi King just voiced a very unenthusiastic acceptance of that deal, and immediately afterward we support him launching this.
Coincidence is not the best explanation of such things.
Coincidence is not the best explanation of such things.
Wonderful that we can offer logistical support to our new allies, the Saudis. Nevermind the overwhelming evidence that they directly funded attacks against the US and EU. I realize this might be an issue of "the devil you know," but come on.
11
The Saudis and their oil have been allies for decades.
1
Former imperialist president, Saleh, said, “We hope that everybody will return to dialogue to solve and treat all the issues."
This is a very revealing comment from any figure-head 'leader' whose imperialist ways have been exposed, understood, and confronted by the people willing and able to overthrow his imperialist scam.
When such corrective actions are taken by a people willing to use violence, the formerly imperialist leader and his elitist gang generally claim to want dialogue instead of the oppression that the former imperialist, oligarchy, or Empire employed.
Naturally, it is preferable if 'the people' diagnose, expose, and confront an Empire with non-violence (as this is more effective, lasting, and humane).
However, this simple and obvious lesson that Saleh describes would be a good 'learning moment', as Obama likes to say, for any of the Vichy Empire candidates now auditioning to replace him as faux-Emperor/president here.
This is a very revealing comment from any figure-head 'leader' whose imperialist ways have been exposed, understood, and confronted by the people willing and able to overthrow his imperialist scam.
When such corrective actions are taken by a people willing to use violence, the formerly imperialist leader and his elitist gang generally claim to want dialogue instead of the oppression that the former imperialist, oligarchy, or Empire employed.
Naturally, it is preferable if 'the people' diagnose, expose, and confront an Empire with non-violence (as this is more effective, lasting, and humane).
However, this simple and obvious lesson that Saleh describes would be a good 'learning moment', as Obama likes to say, for any of the Vichy Empire candidates now auditioning to replace him as faux-Emperor/president here.
1
The old dictator we supported for 30 years (Saleh) was no sweetheart. That does not mean that the people who so badly wounded him with a terrorist bomb are themselves sweethearts either. In fact, they seem to be al Qaeda.
4
The middle east will always be a cesspool of policies and politics. We need to ensure we are NEVER dependent on Oil and forced to intervene there again. Let's keep spending on renewable energy. Let Middle East become like Africa, no one really cares what goes on there. Make Oil the next Tobacco, toxic to the core.
8
Were the Saudis more successful in Yemen than they were on 9/11?
10
Osama bin Laden had been kicked out of S.A. for years when he led 9/11. He had hoped to lead an uprising that would take control of the Saudi oil reserves.
Saudi Arabia endured numerous terrorist attacks from the late '70s on. Think of the world with Al-Queda in charge of the world's largest oil reserves...mmmmm? For decades, the US has rec'd less than 5-6% of its annual petroleum from Saudi. However, the Saudis have been a sturdy ally in keeping the price of oil moderate through OPEC.
Like too many Americans, your lack of knowledge of the Arab Peninsula, its people, history and the oil markets has made you a prime target for every weird lie and smear on the internet. PLEASE, people, take the time to learn before spouting off!
Saudi Arabia endured numerous terrorist attacks from the late '70s on. Think of the world with Al-Queda in charge of the world's largest oil reserves...mmmmm? For decades, the US has rec'd less than 5-6% of its annual petroleum from Saudi. However, the Saudis have been a sturdy ally in keeping the price of oil moderate through OPEC.
Like too many Americans, your lack of knowledge of the Arab Peninsula, its people, history and the oil markets has made you a prime target for every weird lie and smear on the internet. PLEASE, people, take the time to learn before spouting off!
1
THIS Saudi statement is Totally Absurd: "But one of the principal Saudi goals remained unfulfilled: the restoration to power of the exiled Yemeni president, Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi, who was driven from power by the Houthis"!?
THE fact remains that the deposed Yemenis President's (Mr. Hadi) Legitimacy was based on the previous President's support (Mr. Saleh) and to-date there is NO "Credible Explanation" as to why Mr. Saleh Terminated his support for Mr. Hadi and Aligned himself with the Houthis.
Politically speaking, at this point in time the Houthis that are about 40-45% of the population are aligned with 70% of the balance of Yemenis that are under Mr. Saleh's control thus bringing the Houthi+Saleh support to over 80%!
NOTE to House of Saud: Mr. Hadi at best has 17-18% support amongst the Yemenis and that with continued Bombing that support is bound to reach ZERO!
THE fact remains that the deposed Yemenis President's (Mr. Hadi) Legitimacy was based on the previous President's support (Mr. Saleh) and to-date there is NO "Credible Explanation" as to why Mr. Saleh Terminated his support for Mr. Hadi and Aligned himself with the Houthis.
Politically speaking, at this point in time the Houthis that are about 40-45% of the population are aligned with 70% of the balance of Yemenis that are under Mr. Saleh's control thus bringing the Houthi+Saleh support to over 80%!
NOTE to House of Saud: Mr. Hadi at best has 17-18% support amongst the Yemenis and that with continued Bombing that support is bound to reach ZERO!
49
I fear that we are supporting a genocide.
9
Ummm. Your quoted statement was not made by the Saudis, but by the article.
1
America completely ignored the facts of demographics when we decided to gift Iraq with democracy by eliminating Saddam Hussein, who was our former Satrap, whom we had previously engaged in a surrogate war with Iran.
It should have been completely obvious that without Saddam in charge, the country would fragment into Confessional Pockets, and that the Shia Majority would not only dominate national elections, it would also be liberated to join into alliance with Alawite Syria and Mother Persia.
All of this leads me to believe that we either can't count or don't care to count, and I think that this is what George W Bush meant when he said, "We make our own reality." Yet today, most Americans don't recognize that we had been deceived by Mr. Bush, or that George W was our first Postmodern President.
It should have been completely obvious that without Saddam in charge, the country would fragment into Confessional Pockets, and that the Shia Majority would not only dominate national elections, it would also be liberated to join into alliance with Alawite Syria and Mother Persia.
All of this leads me to believe that we either can't count or don't care to count, and I think that this is what George W Bush meant when he said, "We make our own reality." Yet today, most Americans don't recognize that we had been deceived by Mr. Bush, or that George W was our first Postmodern President.
8
Other than the notice of a byline "OBOCK, Djibouti" there is no indication of western involvement in this story. But between the lines: there is a US Marine base in Djibouti and American drones are launched from there. The "warplanes" of the Emirates and the Saudis are made in the US. The Marines protect the Djibouti airport, the drones provide intel for the proxies flying American planes. So though the article doesn't say so, we're in it thick as thieves-- which everyone knows without the article saying so.
88
We sell planes and weaponry to a lot of countries.
"everyone knows"
Everyone ought to realize.
In fact those who want to pretend we are out of it are pretending that.
Some of the loudest pretending that are those who attack Obama for "stepping back" even as we step into this mess, attacking him for not doing exactly what he is doing.
Meanwhile, we shouldn't be doing that, this is a disaster in the making we should have nothing to do with.
Everyone ought to realize.
In fact those who want to pretend we are out of it are pretending that.
Some of the loudest pretending that are those who attack Obama for "stepping back" even as we step into this mess, attacking him for not doing exactly what he is doing.
Meanwhile, we shouldn't be doing that, this is a disaster in the making we should have nothing to do with.
3
Whatever is going on in Yemen is NOT good! It's not good for stability in the region; it's not good for the United States; and its has the very real potential of not being good for the world. The U.S. by tethering itself to Saudi Arabia's military incursion is risking a major confrontation with Iran at the exact moment we're trying to finalize a "deal" to roll back their nuclear arms program and need their assistance in defeating ISIS in Iraq. President Obama's decision to send a large naval flotilla into the Gulf of Aden under the guise of "protecting commerce and navigation" is in reality a significant escalation that puts us on the path to confronting an Iranian supply convoy heading there with potentially catastrophic consequences for all. This is dangerous brinkmanship that is totally at odds with our ongoing attempts to broker peace in the region.
87
"...our ongoing attempts to broker peace in the region."
Really?
Secretary of State Kerry has made a valiant effort which many of us commend. But brokering peace in the region? With military bases in Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Djibouti, lavish weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Israel, an ill-timed, ill-prepared invasion and occupation of Iraq and now multiple naval flotillas deployed to the area, forgive my inexperience but we
don't look like peace brokers.
Really?
Secretary of State Kerry has made a valiant effort which many of us commend. But brokering peace in the region? With military bases in Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Djibouti, lavish weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Israel, an ill-timed, ill-prepared invasion and occupation of Iraq and now multiple naval flotillas deployed to the area, forgive my inexperience but we
don't look like peace brokers.
42
I'm all in favor of brokering peace, but history teaches us that peace at any price is no peace at all. We have read the Iranian foreign minister in this space calling for cease-fire in Yemen while arming their rebels of choice. Calling for regional dialogue while the destruction of Israel is non-negotiable. We have read how Nick Kristof's daughter was greeted by Iranian women with ice cream. We hoped (prayed?) that the ascendancy of Rouhani and the good will of the Iranian people was an indication that Iran was a rational actor and was prepared to moderate their hard line. It is becoming more apparent every day that those prayers will not be answered.
1
Maybe someone is looking for a way to back out the Iranian nuke deal without looking like backing out. Like handing the pact to congress for approval when he know congress won't agree to it.
1
The Saudis lied?! I am shocked, not. But I guess they are allowed to do that being the anointed theocratic rules that they are.
The US needs to get out of the business of supporting these brutal people. Let them fight their own battles.
The US needs to get out of the business of supporting these brutal people. Let them fight their own battles.
104
No. Pragmatism.
1
Yemen is obviously not a success story in our war against terrorism anymore. Maybe we should stop sending arms to the region, unless of course, America wants some ownership of this war.
55
swm..America owns the war already. We have increased arms sales to the Middle East more and more to balance the trade from our purchasing of oil. Also, making war and selling weapons is how America has come to makes its living…sad but true…we truly do already own wars in Middle East, and most other places around the world, especially, if there is any link to fossil fuels, or a corporation or two that needs backing by our military.
30
Carolyn - I agree, but please, let's place responsibility on all the aggressors.
3
People who want to or need to fight will get their arms from anywhere - US, Russia, China or any other of at least 50 other countries active in the arms trade. Why should be lose our share of this lucrative market? In any case, sending arms is not what accounts for the fighting in the first place.
1