The point here seems to be that there's a post-modern spiritual vacuum that is driving the French to Islam. We all know Islam is no good, so really we should all become better Christians - which is predictable, given how the French author works for the Ethics and Public Policy Center, which is a right wing advocacy group "dedicated [according to its Charter] to applying the Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy."
3
One source of malaise must be guilt about their colonial past, with their post World War I troublemaking in the Middle East getting the most attention currently, and the Vietnam/Cambodia troubles in the not so distant past.
4
This article is simplistic and founded primarily on stereotypes of the "morose" French. It also smacks of the envy of the rest of the world for a country so happily situated, so favored by geography, history, culture, meterology, and so on, "Wie Gott im Frankreich". France's dilemma stems directly from this ideal positioning, in that its historic role has been to "hold the center": The rest of the world is free to be wild, pioneering, insane, free to the point of chaos, but French culture is bound by sacred commitments, so deeply engrained in their character that they hardly know them themselves. This is why they never change certain things: how they eat, when they eat, what they eat, -- and how they are always one step removed from reality -- THIS is the crux of their malaise: They intellectualize everything (they don't hear music, for example, such great "jazz lovers" -- they just think about it). They don't LIVE in the same way the rest of the world lives, they just endlessly discuss life, as if it were a beautiful, or hideous, dream. For which reason, as others, they are not racist -- they are truly devoted to Liberty, Equality… and here's the rub: Fraternity would require them to live in the first degree with their fellow mankind, and that is beyond, in the most general sense, their essentially intellectual being. Thus, they are caught in a quintessential dilemma: They cannot change (why should they?), but they must evolve in order to survive.
11
No one reads about the ingenious Russians or the Germans who did war so well. Everyone wants to visit Paris, not Berlin.
The greatest thing which the french should be admired for is inventing a commercial internet before the US and then abandoning it as boring and irrelevant ! The French are indispensably different and ought not to be demeaned for the peculiarity of their lifestyle. Their Constitution reads like a lawyers joke book, but they have more protections than Americans do without even trying.
Writers have been making hay out of lost French imperial power and glamour since before Shakespeare wrote Henry V. It is nothing new and hardly merits even passing attention.
The greatest thing which the french should be admired for is inventing a commercial internet before the US and then abandoning it as boring and irrelevant ! The French are indispensably different and ought not to be demeaned for the peculiarity of their lifestyle. Their Constitution reads like a lawyers joke book, but they have more protections than Americans do without even trying.
Writers have been making hay out of lost French imperial power and glamour since before Shakespeare wrote Henry V. It is nothing new and hardly merits even passing attention.
9
Eventually, someone who write that the Anglo-American is the new Roman Empire. Except this though, I don't agree at all on his melancholy definition as French as I'm by the way are not hegemonic and just want to preserve our nation. In the past, they were not that melancholic because they could preserve their culture and were not sharing our country will all foreigners from all over the world as are commanding our politicians who are replacing the population. Last time, I was in Budapest, Hungary, I spoke of this to the local hairdresser and she understood it so fine that it was her who was speaking about "replacing the population". But on those great and official medias, we're not allowed to speak about. We must accept that our country which had during 2 500 years protected his borders, his identity, his culture like even Ayaan Hirsi Ali warned us about, be forgotten and spread to any people from all over the world as we would have become universal. It's like also a neo-colonialism with poor people from all over the world coming into our country in order to sweep up the street. I don't remember that one day French tolerated the Romans during centuries as well as the Neapolitans tolerated French. But nowadays, it's claimed that it would be old-fashion to say so...
The only debate about this islamization of our country should be summed up by only one question : are you not yourself islamophobic or are you in favor of stoning of women ? https://youtu.be/yJnNPucPcig?t=575
The only debate about this islamization of our country should be summed up by only one question : are you not yourself islamophobic or are you in favor of stoning of women ? https://youtu.be/yJnNPucPcig?t=575
2
I would be more inclined to think that the French are melancholy because of contemplating the compromises to liberty, equality and fraternity that are going to be necessary NOT to slide towards a theocracy, or any concession to theocratic aspirations in its Muslim population.
It's like the foster parents who felt moved to take in the neglected child, but have so much heartache in the day to day dealings with that neglected child that they lie awake at night thinking to themselves, what have we done to ourselves? Was it worth sacrificing peace and harmony in our household to give this child a home? Because it is done and now they have to deal with it.
That's a melancholy contemplation.
It's like the foster parents who felt moved to take in the neglected child, but have so much heartache in the day to day dealings with that neglected child that they lie awake at night thinking to themselves, what have we done to ourselves? Was it worth sacrificing peace and harmony in our household to give this child a home? Because it is done and now they have to deal with it.
That's a melancholy contemplation.
4
Dark side of exceptionalism? France simply got to permanent cultural ennui first, because they did coin the word "ennui."
America's next malaise era will be deeper and more dangerous. It'll come as soon as the cheap oil is gone for good. France can't lash out as nastily as American on the world stage, as we both sink into cultural irrelevance. That saddens me, because I admire so much about my own culture and truly loved my time in the French provinces.
Maybe that is where hope for France lies: in its incomparable countryside, far from hand-wringing in the cities. In America, it's our newly reviving and multicultural cities that give me hope, not the guns-and-bible belts outside them.
America's next malaise era will be deeper and more dangerous. It'll come as soon as the cheap oil is gone for good. France can't lash out as nastily as American on the world stage, as we both sink into cultural irrelevance. That saddens me, because I admire so much about my own culture and truly loved my time in the French provinces.
Maybe that is where hope for France lies: in its incomparable countryside, far from hand-wringing in the cities. In America, it's our newly reviving and multicultural cities that give me hope, not the guns-and-bible belts outside them.
2
A heartfelt and deeply cherished cynicism informs the French, who have seen excesses beyond recounting in their tumultuous history. And the resulting private disparagement of those non-French people and things they have to reckon with, based on an overweening intellectual sensibility of superiority to the rest of the world, while having to pay lip service to the new secular religion of political correctness, merely reinforces their cynicism. Socialist governments like Hollande's that sweep into power promising the sun, moon, stars, and untold economic benefits are also viewed with cynicism. Who gets to pay for this left-wing paradise? And why can't it seem to grow jobs and take off even one centimeter toward its goals?
1
The question is how much of the melancholy the author describes is peculiarly French, and how much is universally experienced by people living in postmodern culture everywhere?
All the talk of history is a little silly, really; people can only vaguely sense the grandeur of a long-ago history. On the other hand, the French literary tradition, which remains strong, has always been acutely sensitive to the aches of the soul (Montaigne, Pascal and Rousseau come immediately to mind).
Since I loathe organized religion, It pains me to say this: It is increasingly obvious that the Enlightenment ideal of happiness through reason, science, philosophy and art--very much a French idea--with God removed from the picture, was a pipe dream. (As an aside, the real reason America is a far more optimistic place than France--or anyplace else in Europe, for that matter--is because we are a religious country.)
Unfortunately, even if God is merely a human desire, without God at the center of culture, anomie is almost inevitable.
All the talk of history is a little silly, really; people can only vaguely sense the grandeur of a long-ago history. On the other hand, the French literary tradition, which remains strong, has always been acutely sensitive to the aches of the soul (Montaigne, Pascal and Rousseau come immediately to mind).
Since I loathe organized religion, It pains me to say this: It is increasingly obvious that the Enlightenment ideal of happiness through reason, science, philosophy and art--very much a French idea--with God removed from the picture, was a pipe dream. (As an aside, the real reason America is a far more optimistic place than France--or anyplace else in Europe, for that matter--is because we are a religious country.)
Unfortunately, even if God is merely a human desire, without God at the center of culture, anomie is almost inevitable.
2
"All the talk of history is a little silly, really; people can only vaguely sense the grandeur of a long-ago history."
Not so! Patently not true. History becomes impedded in culture, which in turn influences how we behave. The evolutionary history of our species has left us with primal instincts that also influence how we behave.
This utter dismissal of the past, as having nothing to do with us modern men and women, arises partly from the rationalism that pervades our culture. But it is a form of hubris that we can only come to regret.
Not so! Patently not true. History becomes impedded in culture, which in turn influences how we behave. The evolutionary history of our species has left us with primal instincts that also influence how we behave.
This utter dismissal of the past, as having nothing to do with us modern men and women, arises partly from the rationalism that pervades our culture. But it is a form of hubris that we can only come to regret.
3
I have been living for twenty-one years in the rich suburbs west of Paris and have brought up my family there and I can tell you this: among the haute bourgeoisie of which I am a member, there is a terrible malaise and that malaise = Islam. Islam means 'Submission' in Arabic, the title of Houellebecq's book (Soumission). The French are 'submitting' to everything: English, their own melancholy, the Islamization of large parts of Paris, Roubaix, Mantes la Jolie, Lille, the list goes on. Muslims make up 9% of France right now. Islam is a terrible terrible religion, as are most religions, and it has taken hold in France because of the Algerian war and the weakness of the French politically correct wimps in power. All my friends talk of only one thing : bloody Islam. Right now, Muslims make up 2% of the American population. Wait til you get to 9% and see what happens.
4
I think that French malaise stems from the disconnect between the country's pride and its reality. As a people, the French tend to be pragmatic, cynical, depressive, and caustic in their observations and their world view. Pride can be their undoing, and humility is not part of their lexicon.
Much of the appeal of De Gaul during World War II and after, was the projected hope of the French to regain their past "gloire," a glory based more on their intellectual and artistic contributions to world culture than any political or empire-based power.
I was in love with French literature and language in my teens and twenties, but was never able to feel comfortable during my numerous visits to the country. Something about the French chip on the shoulder always left me feeling wanted--as if their projected superiority somehow diminished my own sense of self.
Other countries also go through periods of deep introspection and self-doubt, but none can fall so far and so fast as the French. I'm sure the Islamic influence seems but one more nail in the coffin of their collective self-worth. Whether they can shake it, it is anyone's guess but I hope for the sake of this great nation that has produced--and keeps producing--so many objects and works of beauty and intellectual prowess that they can.
Much of the appeal of De Gaul during World War II and after, was the projected hope of the French to regain their past "gloire," a glory based more on their intellectual and artistic contributions to world culture than any political or empire-based power.
I was in love with French literature and language in my teens and twenties, but was never able to feel comfortable during my numerous visits to the country. Something about the French chip on the shoulder always left me feeling wanted--as if their projected superiority somehow diminished my own sense of self.
Other countries also go through periods of deep introspection and self-doubt, but none can fall so far and so fast as the French. I'm sure the Islamic influence seems but one more nail in the coffin of their collective self-worth. Whether they can shake it, it is anyone's guess but I hope for the sake of this great nation that has produced--and keeps producing--so many objects and works of beauty and intellectual prowess that they can.
4
During a trip Rio-Washington DC in middle 80s, a French businessman called Jacque Anas was seated next to me. Jacques' grim assessment of the French economy -- particularly anti-private business legislation with the highest level of corporation taxes in Europe -- made me to conclude the country was on the verge of a serious economic crisis.
Curiously, Jacque was very optimistic about the Brazilian economy and praised the government for offering a business friendly climate for investment.
Ex post we all know Jacque was deadly wrong. The French population continues to enjoy one the highest standard of living in the world. Brazil had several economic and financial crises and remains a big sized economy with lower standard of living.
What is the lesson learned? pessimism combined with sense of superiority are France's psico-social trademark. Meanwhile, they continue to enjoy a beautiful country with the state providing first rate services and culture.
The current malaise will soon go away as the cold Parisian weather is replaced by spring/summer warmth. Meanwhile, Parisian intellectuals will continue to debate ad nauseum the decline of France at those cozy river gauche cafes.
Curiously, Jacque was very optimistic about the Brazilian economy and praised the government for offering a business friendly climate for investment.
Ex post we all know Jacque was deadly wrong. The French population continues to enjoy one the highest standard of living in the world. Brazil had several economic and financial crises and remains a big sized economy with lower standard of living.
What is the lesson learned? pessimism combined with sense of superiority are France's psico-social trademark. Meanwhile, they continue to enjoy a beautiful country with the state providing first rate services and culture.
The current malaise will soon go away as the cold Parisian weather is replaced by spring/summer warmth. Meanwhile, Parisian intellectuals will continue to debate ad nauseum the decline of France at those cozy river gauche cafes.
7
It's the troublesome rise of all religion that worries me. I wish we could stamp out all religion. It's time we started to look at the world as it is without the invisible, supernatural creature to tell us who's right or wrong. We shouldn't rely on a mythological creature to tell us who to hate, who to love and that we're better than the other guy.
Religions are nothing more than the grown up version of the highschool cliques we believe we left behind. The only way we as a race can survive is to stamp out this mental illness called religion. It has no place in a modern, civilized world.
Religions are nothing more than the grown up version of the highschool cliques we believe we left behind. The only way we as a race can survive is to stamp out this mental illness called religion. It has no place in a modern, civilized world.
7
Pierre Guerlain (see below), writes
"There is an American or "anglospheric" trope about French grandeur & the nostalgia of its loss."
Amen.
"There is an American or "anglospheric" trope about French grandeur & the nostalgia of its loss."
Amen.
1
Psychologists have a difficult time drumming up business with natives of France especially the true France which is invariably does not include Paris the seat of all that is now wrong with greater France today. Natives are by nature, born cynics who question everything and analyse others and themselves othen time aloud so that others hear their analysis. There is always the DeGaulle visions of grandeur and the loss of that vision floating about because it was effectively sold to the French people by a master politician. To point in any one direction or to history as to the malaise found embedded in France today is pointless. The French will always be the French and not someone who immigrated here 3 generations ago. It's probably not a resident of Paris as they like New Yorkers are typically from somewhere else. Look to the regional departments for the real opinions, practices, to the farmer and Routiers along the roads, the cafes in sleepy corners no one visits - the real France resides there not the capital.
1
Both authors and the article itself are sustaining the idea of the failure of multiculturalism in France. Because some Frenchs are leaving to join the ISIS. Or maybe just and more generally because they are different. Multiculturalism is blamed because it has erased the History Zemmour is so proud of. The only French malaise described here is the reactionary malaise. Hopefully -in both senses of the term - France is not -only- a reactionary country. Houelbecq and Zemmour are marginalized. Multiculturalism, in school, university and work is probably one of the most advanced if not perfectly effective. France has taken one of the hardest way and I'm proud of being French and being part of a country that has chosen equality and multiculturalism. I think most countries -including the US- can sometimes be far behind in terms of equality between cultures and racism. In France, there are no wounds in the soul, just chalenges in the way !
2
"Shariah-mandated social subsidies afford women security and liberation from the pressures of trying to combine career and family."
Really? Is this what Frenchwomen want? Shariah laws? I have never heard of this writer, but he has some bizarre ideas.
Really? Is this what Frenchwomen want? Shariah laws? I have never heard of this writer, but he has some bizarre ideas.
4
Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
5
The final nail in the coffin of French greatness is the euro. The single currency was France's attempt to lead a greater Europe in its image by handcuffing itself to the German economic juggernaught. The outcome has been not only economic disaster, but the legitimization of right-wing political parties throughout the zone. France fears outsiders, but it is its own xenophobes who are the biggest threat to its values and way of life. And these thrive in an environment of economic distress. Currency union is the greatest self-inflicted wound on the continent since the Treaty of Versailles. One hopes the consequences won't be as dire this time, but it's not obvious they won't be.
2
It is natural that for a 320 million hodgepodge like us, with no defining creed except faith in the dollar — and even that is ebbing — two, three million Muslim immigrants aren't a big deal.
It is remarkable however that the French, who have ever admired themselves as the quintessential Europeans, and as definitively Catholic, have in a relatively short time accepted six million, mostly impoverished and often resentful Muslims, even as they seem rather afraid of them.
Perhaps this anxiousness to be compliant and conciliatory does involve the defeat of the grand hope Zemmour traces to the Dark Ages, or to the post modern failures of Houellebecq theory.
But maybe the answer is less profound and more recent. The French, ever since their surrender to Prussia in 1870, have been losing wars. They effectively lost WWI, WWII, Indochina, Algeria. With the passing of their colonial empire they also lost their cultural mission. With the EU 'went their currency and gone is the last of their great power status.
In short, they have had 150 years to practice throwing in the towel.
It is remarkable however that the French, who have ever admired themselves as the quintessential Europeans, and as definitively Catholic, have in a relatively short time accepted six million, mostly impoverished and often resentful Muslims, even as they seem rather afraid of them.
Perhaps this anxiousness to be compliant and conciliatory does involve the defeat of the grand hope Zemmour traces to the Dark Ages, or to the post modern failures of Houellebecq theory.
But maybe the answer is less profound and more recent. The French, ever since their surrender to Prussia in 1870, have been losing wars. They effectively lost WWI, WWII, Indochina, Algeria. With the passing of their colonial empire they also lost their cultural mission. With the EU 'went their currency and gone is the last of their great power status.
In short, they have had 150 years to practice throwing in the towel.
7
The French "malaise" has been around for eons, but somehow all this "morosité" has resulted in a society with the kind of advanced social legislation
(universal healthcare, generous paid vacation and maternity leave, wonderful public transport etc.) which average Americans can only dream about. French politicians are as imperfect as the rest of us, but at least I don't see any of them waging war on women's reproductive rights, denying global warming and evolution and demanding to teach creationism in schools, bragging about their virginity and advocating the teaching of abstinence as a solution to teenage pregnancy, congratulating themselves for not having a college education, pushing for guns to be omnipresent in every sphere of public life, and proposing laws which permit businesses to refuse services to people on the grounds of religion and sexual orientation. Whether I agree with them or not, at least the level of discourse of the Zemmours and Houellebecqs is generally on a higher intellectual plane than the rabble rousers at Fox News. France will continue to struggle with the problems all Western Democracies face and the French will complain as they always have, but they seem to know instinctively what "quality of life" really consists of and they will muddle through.
(universal healthcare, generous paid vacation and maternity leave, wonderful public transport etc.) which average Americans can only dream about. French politicians are as imperfect as the rest of us, but at least I don't see any of them waging war on women's reproductive rights, denying global warming and evolution and demanding to teach creationism in schools, bragging about their virginity and advocating the teaching of abstinence as a solution to teenage pregnancy, congratulating themselves for not having a college education, pushing for guns to be omnipresent in every sphere of public life, and proposing laws which permit businesses to refuse services to people on the grounds of religion and sexual orientation. Whether I agree with them or not, at least the level of discourse of the Zemmours and Houellebecqs is generally on a higher intellectual plane than the rabble rousers at Fox News. France will continue to struggle with the problems all Western Democracies face and the French will complain as they always have, but they seem to know instinctively what "quality of life" really consists of and they will muddle through.
40
As an admirer of France for the past 35 years, I only envy them. The prettiest city, best food, LeMans, Tour de France, and that darn Citreon DS-21. They have the Alps, Cote d'sur, and the prettiest countryside I have ever seen. Maybe they are just down because others can not see the true beauty of their country. The French should be ashamed of nothing, (Except for a few car designs from the 80's, nobody is perfect.)
2
Ah, so many psychological and historical experts!
There has been a sea change in technology with advances driven by consumer demand in electronics, software, transportation advances, and drug discovery. France, with a more government-centric approach to technology and science has not fared well in this change, with a few bright spots. It has a size disadvantage to Germany and Japan, and an advanced education disadvantage to the U.S. And UK. And so differentially, it has become poorer over the last 30 years.
There has been a sea change in technology with advances driven by consumer demand in electronics, software, transportation advances, and drug discovery. France, with a more government-centric approach to technology and science has not fared well in this change, with a few bright spots. It has a size disadvantage to Germany and Japan, and an advanced education disadvantage to the U.S. And UK. And so differentially, it has become poorer over the last 30 years.
5
Leave the Valois behind. There has been 2 France for a long time. As Edward Fox or John Lukacs described. One inward looking for personal benefits granted by sovereigns in search of continental dominance. The other outward looking to suck up positive British or American or name your country influences. Don't forget the last great rebound of France between 1870 and 1910. Innovation In all fields but above all science, culture and business in a global crisis and when repaying the debt inflicted by the new German Reich.
There is a French soul.
There is a French soul.
2
Actually, I am not sure whether the roots of French malaise plunge so far into the distant past as Zemmour tends to believe. The man or the woman in the street in contemporary France is just as prey to the global phenomenon of 'presentism', eyes glued to screens in quest of 'recognition' from 'friends' on Facebook or just a few insipid text messages confirming one's existence in today's socially alienating society. In light of the masses' intellectual shallowness rendering them largely indifferent to the quoted writers' socio-cultural analyses of dubious ideological value, it is much more likely that MOST of the residents of France are more affected by the Leviathan weight of the highly inefficient French educational system. An excessively ambitious secondary school programme devoid of material and human resources as well as its intrinsic rigidity is largely at the basis of DAILY frustration in France where youth are often left with very few options for career orientation. One is left with the impression that the Parisian élite are utterly frightened by the idea of social mobility since it would call into question an preordained social order which simply should not be modified for the simple reason of social organisation. ALL residents of France, regardless of ethnicity or religious affiliation, are under the sway of a system where the dice are loaded by a self-declared intellectual élite who play the role of their crowned predecessors in the Ancien Régime.
14
Eric Zemmour is an unapologetic homophobe, whose brand of "intellectualism" is nauseating (Example: because he can couch hating gays in lofty terms, it doesn't count as hatred). Beurk (= French for "yuck")
4
One aspect of reality is that powerful countries seek ways to feed their illusion of greatness. When this illusion is supported by resources, a country launches on adventurism and subsequent unraveling of previous orders. Whether it be the Napoleonic dream of French hegemony, English world wide colonialism, the brutal aggressions of Hitler or the desire of the United States to make other countries in its image, these countries strive to feed their sense of pride and willingly spend lives and treasure to maintain it. But when the dream finally comes to an end, there appears a sense of lassitude and depression that takes generations to overcome because their society has seemingly lost its purpose. During this long period of recovering, the countries tear themselves apart in mutual accusations and look for explanations, from the psychological to the historical, forgetting that like all dreams, this, too, comes to an end, like the slow but inevitable biological process into nothingness.
It is then when they can come to terms with the reality of their circumstances and, if they are wise, will look to repair the fabric of their societies.
It is then when they can come to terms with the reality of their circumstances and, if they are wise, will look to repair the fabric of their societies.
6
One visits Paris to experience its wonders and its people. Its Parisians.
I pray that the trend discussed is chopped off at the ankles. The loss of cultures developed over centuries—losses shepherded by their own whorish governments—is deplorable.
I pray that the trend discussed is chopped off at the ankles. The loss of cultures developed over centuries—losses shepherded by their own whorish governments—is deplorable.
5
Hard to figure the French; can't live them and can't live without them. And two things are true about the French; they are the beating heart of Europe and without their help, we would still be British! It is quite likely they'll be nation long after the United States is gone!
8
This analysis is akin to psychoanalysis which puts aside the material. A big part of the current situation is socio-economic: unemployment, functional segregation, lack of mobility. I live in France and don't get much of a sense of longing for certainties of the past.
8
Precisely. The "material" in this case is a global economic crisis, and before that, the outsourcing of what were once well-paying jobs. We are not so different from the French after all.
Are things really so bad in France? I don't think so. Yes, there are poorly integrated Muslims there, as there are in Switzerland, Germany, the US, almost everywhere. Yes, the economy is tough for some...as it is everywhere.
But when you are in France, the "savoir vivre" is omnipresent, and I don't have the feeling that most people are unhappy.
In fact, the German saying for someone who really knows how to live a wonderful life is "Er lebt wie Gott in Frankreich!" (He lives like God in France.)
But when you are in France, the "savoir vivre" is omnipresent, and I don't have the feeling that most people are unhappy.
In fact, the German saying for someone who really knows how to live a wonderful life is "Er lebt wie Gott in Frankreich!" (He lives like God in France.)
6
I have dual US-French citizenship, and lived in France for 20 years, until 2005. I returned to the US to take care of my mother after her stroke. Like her other European partners, France, I think it is fair to say, is struggling with reinventing itself as part of the European Community. The dominant nations after World War II have been large powers like the US, the USSR and, eventually, China. The hope was that the EU would evolve a unity that would permit it to be in this league. Governance in the EU traditionally serves to maintain the social status quo, to keep it personal and family-like, unlike the US which as a young country was obliged to create a rule-of-law based system capable of rationalizing westward expansion and uniting a large and very economically productive continental land area. Being made up of the peoples of the entire world, the US also had to learn to practice real assimilation of peoples with vastly different cultural experiences. These institutional innovations were modern creations which had no moral debt to pay to history. China and the ex-society Union have been forced by postwar events to develop these global scale practices.
The EU has allowed itself to fail to unify effectively because it has been able to put off the need for real unification due to remaining a feckless dependent of US defense and commanding global political influence. But, the rising legions of jobless youth cannot be expected to sit on their hands indefinitely.
The EU has allowed itself to fail to unify effectively because it has been able to put off the need for real unification due to remaining a feckless dependent of US defense and commanding global political influence. But, the rising legions of jobless youth cannot be expected to sit on their hands indefinitely.
11
Zemmour's pseudo intellectual provocation swims with racism and anti-semitism. This is his target audience and if you go to book salons, you'll see them lined up to meet him and get his dedication. To compare him with a fine literary writer and satirist like Houellebecq makes for a pithy column in an American newspaper but does not convince. Read Houellebecq, ignore Zemmour.
1
The French people I know seem to have one thing in common - delight in challenging authority. They do not like to obey rules, and this seems to stem from the Revolution. But just like Americans, they are worried about the future of the planet and earning enough money. France is not as far along on the road to oligarchy as the US, but people are worried about it. The EU has not been good for ordinary French people either. Prices went up when the country switched to the euro, and EU rules erode many French gustatory traditions.
8
Robert Paxton totally debunked Zemmour's ravings about Vichy and the Jews (if you read French here it is: http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2014/10/09/robert-paxton-largument-zemmour-vi.... Zemmour is indeed a provocateur but not a serious thinker. He made some racist statements in the past (one of them recently when he advocated the deportation of French muslims).
There is an American or "anglospheric" trope about French grandeur & the nostalgia of its loss. Yet international comparisons indicate that maybe there is angst in most places nowadays, except the few where the economy does well. So although angst is a German word (meaning just "fear") Germany seems to have less angst than others these days. The US is caught between its homegrown plutocracy and a rising China which causes some angst (or malaise) in spite of all its power. China is on the rise and confident yet its pollution and raw materials problems might cause angst. Japan's angst is related to Chinese power.
Maybe the postmodern condition is one of malaise and uncontrolled angst. Or even the human condition?
There is an American or "anglospheric" trope about French grandeur & the nostalgia of its loss. Yet international comparisons indicate that maybe there is angst in most places nowadays, except the few where the economy does well. So although angst is a German word (meaning just "fear") Germany seems to have less angst than others these days. The US is caught between its homegrown plutocracy and a rising China which causes some angst (or malaise) in spite of all its power. China is on the rise and confident yet its pollution and raw materials problems might cause angst. Japan's angst is related to Chinese power.
Maybe the postmodern condition is one of malaise and uncontrolled angst. Or even the human condition?
5
Good text by Gobry, reviewing two books by Zemmour and Houellebecq. It strikes me that most of what the authors have said about the "French malaise" is equally applicable to other Western cultures such as the US, UK and most of Western Europe. This is not just about France; there is a widespread disenchantment with the Church (whether it's Catholic, Protestant, Jewish) and the State. Islam offers an alternative, and young people are desperate to believe in something, anything. The problem is not Islam; the problem is the disenchantment with Western values. Until we are somehow able to provide new credible value frameworks, young people will continue to seek elsewhere something to believe in, something to guide them and help complete their identity.
2
Of course, there is a disenchantment with the Church and it has been explained by Bishop Monsignore Lefebvre why : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyHBy06dEh0
It's not a problem of our religion, it's a problem of men. The priests nowadays are no more respecting their own religion.
It's not a problem of our religion, it's a problem of men. The priests nowadays are no more respecting their own religion.
1
Zemmour, Gobry, and all those who probe for its roots overthink the issue. In France, the high school curriculum includes a big dose of philosophy and a Cartesian approach to critical thought. Perception is not reality; reason must be applied for the mind to understand what the eyes see. Products of this thoughtful education, the French are masters of reason, and parsing through issues is a national pastime. Hence the average French person tends to have a more realistic understanding of the world and hence a less optimistic perspective. You can call it malaise, or melancholy, or you can call it realism.
Anyone with a highly developed ability for critical thought finds starry-eyed optimism unrealistic.
I choose to live in France because of the "malaise", not in spite of it. Where others see a gloomy perspective, I see a realistic one. I enjoy interacting with people who don't impose fake cheerfulness on others, and whose perspective is informed and well-reasoned.
Anyone with a highly developed ability for critical thought finds starry-eyed optimism unrealistic.
I choose to live in France because of the "malaise", not in spite of it. Where others see a gloomy perspective, I see a realistic one. I enjoy interacting with people who don't impose fake cheerfulness on others, and whose perspective is informed and well-reasoned.
29
You make me want to return to France. I am sick of the lack of 'critical thought' all around me. I long for an 'adult' world where it's okay to voice cynicism and not be thought of as a party-pooper. I spent a year in Paris when I was a student many many years ago. Maybe it's time for me to brush up on my French and re-invent myself as a world citizen. To live in France BECAUSE of the malaise.. that really resonates with me. Thanks! I feel some hope in my hopelessness at a time when I have been saying I am through with trying to be understood!
4
Your comment is interesting and perceptive, but I have to disagree with your statement that perception is not reality. Isn't reason part of perception?
'....Leave a secret part of us craving a confident, life-saving creed?' Must be a French thing. Sounds like what the Reagan revivalists want over here. Good luck with that!
1
Michel Houellebecq reminds of a great French writer who gained fame in the early 1930s with "Journey to the End of the Night," Louis-Ferdinand Celine is the intellectual father of the modern dark comedy, and he has influenced the writings of such American authors as Kurt Vonnegut, Joseph Heller, Philip Roth and Charles Bukowski. And he probably would have won the Nobel Prize for literature if he hadn't been such a virulent anti-Semite. France at the time was going through a similar spiritual malaise in the body politic, a political crisis in its identity, and a profound self-doubting in the aftermath of the First World War and the Great Depression. France acts in our Western culture as the proverbial canary in the mineshaft. And just as it made it through that era of self-doubt, it will undoubtedly also make it through this one. Houellebecq is more "Celine-Lite." though a talented writer. No one does dark humor with a soup-con of nihilism like Celine who is the master. Or as Phillip Roth once quipped in an interview Celine is the real "Proust" of France to him. An acorn doesn't fall far from the oak tree. That's how I view in a historical context Houellebecq's place in French belles-lettres. He is a great-grandson on the Celine family tree in the postmodern era. And France will see itself through its relapse into melancholy, because the French are a very resilient people even when they act out their doubts in public. That's just what it means to be French.
6
French bashing?! Not quite. How many articles can one newspaper publish about the French psyche?
1
Leave it to an analysis of the French soul-malaise to sound like a bad Ph.D thesis. Will any of this be on the final exam? I'm heading to my favorite late-night cafe with my pack of Gauloises and my well-thumbed copy of Sartre's Existentialism, to drink espresso and talk long into the night with my friend, Bernard, about the anti-colonial backlash in Algeria after the war.
So France isn't the great nation it has envisioned it should be, and now a bunch of malcontents and religious extremists are ruining the studied melancholy. Is that about right? We Americans can feel smug that our anti-intellectualism and lack of old-world traditions has produced an expensive, me-too, consumer culture that most values commenting about Kanye West's vintage, distressed-leather jacket on our Facebook pages via our biggie-sized iPhone 6's. Who needs world domination when we can watch Game of Thrones anywhere we are sitting? Khloe is the new Kim. Pass it along.
5
If you want to understand how all of a sudden Algeria found the energy to make war against his colonizer, you can look at this report of Al-Jazeera : https://youtu.be/LTuzZ920AQs?t=539
France was not interested by Algeria like General De Gaulle said so speaking about his village having two churches possibly becoming two mosques if the colonization was pursued (as it was allowed to circulate in both ways), but interested by his oil they discovered lately which could give them energetic independence.
France was not interested by Algeria like General De Gaulle said so speaking about his village having two churches possibly becoming two mosques if the colonization was pursued (as it was allowed to circulate in both ways), but interested by his oil they discovered lately which could give them energetic independence.
A Country is a terrible thing to lose. The seeds of this malaise is a long time in coming. After being rescued by the Allies at the gates of Paris in WWI the Country completely folded in 6 short weeks to the German Army in WWII. The collapse of the the Third Republic was a tremendous psychological blow to the people of France. The Vichy Occupation Government then became a scourge on the soul of France from which they have never recovered. They lost their self esteem and their collective self respect after those combined humiliations.
Although they tried to recapture the lost glory of their colonial past after the war under the strong leadership of De Gaulle, their efforts were debilitating & short-lived. Since then, the Country has never been able to come close to recapturing its greatness and, to a great extent, the French people have given up on their Institutions & their Leaders. So it is not surprising that after what has occurred in the last 100 years that the cumulative effect in general is that there is little if anything that can be done to reverse this downward trend.
Unless, of course, a dynamic leader were to emerge to rally these proud people and get them off their collective butts.
Although they tried to recapture the lost glory of their colonial past after the war under the strong leadership of De Gaulle, their efforts were debilitating & short-lived. Since then, the Country has never been able to come close to recapturing its greatness and, to a great extent, the French people have given up on their Institutions & their Leaders. So it is not surprising that after what has occurred in the last 100 years that the cumulative effect in general is that there is little if anything that can be done to reverse this downward trend.
Unless, of course, a dynamic leader were to emerge to rally these proud people and get them off their collective butts.
5
The author states: "there has been a French national project of West-leading greatness that dates back almost a millennium" .. How is such a "dream" sustained? Who is doing the dreaming? How can a nation dream together -- for a thousand years? Do they sleep holding hands? Seriously though, what is the substrate and the perpetuating mechanism of such a national or cultural consciousness? Who is having the "malaise" really? Why should it persist for so long? Jimmy Carter once said the US had "malaise" and he was probably right -- in the post Vietnam War post-Watergate era, when inflation was out of control and the economy was flat. But it didn't last very long -- within one election we had Reagan and "Morning in America" and a sustained economic expansion over the next two decades -- some even say Clinton was a clone of Reagan.
France needs a Reagan, or a Clinton. It doesn't need to be so complicated -- someone who is cheerful and optimistic. France has a very beautiful outlook on many of the important matters of life -- which transcend all religions.
Have fun, France!
And don't think about things so much!
Don't doubt, create.
France needs a Reagan, or a Clinton. It doesn't need to be so complicated -- someone who is cheerful and optimistic. France has a very beautiful outlook on many of the important matters of life -- which transcend all religions.
Have fun, France!
And don't think about things so much!
Don't doubt, create.
3
"wounds in the French soul" - for which there is no cure.
What a surprise. I cannot claim to have read any of these tomes in either French or English.
However as Mr Gobry portrays these two writers, they both seem partial to committing the fundamental logical fallacy of sweeping generalization. In the case of Mr Zemmour there is the fallacy of "appeal to authority". Simply because Mr Zemmour has "encyclopedic" knowledge, does not mean squat. The author acknowledges that Zemmour is "often off base", for example with his outrageous claim that the Vichy government was trying to save Jews from the Holocaust. When we are talking about the French soul, a far more elusive entity, why on earth would we believe such a thinker, who although he may know tons of facts, deploys them mischievously? Just because Zemmour is encyclopedic, does not mean he is not simplistic.
When we're talking about grand French, English or American souls for that matter, what and who exactly are we talking about? Of course there is no cure when there is no diagnosis. And there can be no diagnosis when one speaks in lofty-sounding but ultimately meaningless generalities.
What a surprise. I cannot claim to have read any of these tomes in either French or English.
However as Mr Gobry portrays these two writers, they both seem partial to committing the fundamental logical fallacy of sweeping generalization. In the case of Mr Zemmour there is the fallacy of "appeal to authority". Simply because Mr Zemmour has "encyclopedic" knowledge, does not mean squat. The author acknowledges that Zemmour is "often off base", for example with his outrageous claim that the Vichy government was trying to save Jews from the Holocaust. When we are talking about the French soul, a far more elusive entity, why on earth would we believe such a thinker, who although he may know tons of facts, deploys them mischievously? Just because Zemmour is encyclopedic, does not mean he is not simplistic.
When we're talking about grand French, English or American souls for that matter, what and who exactly are we talking about? Of course there is no cure when there is no diagnosis. And there can be no diagnosis when one speaks in lofty-sounding but ultimately meaningless generalities.
1
Three French families I have known for years have 'lost' all their adult children totalling 11 to work in other parts of Europe, Africa and New Zealand. Family 'get-togethers' are now virtually non existent. Christmas & New Year is sad indeed for parents & grandparents.Just another symptom of 'Melancolie Francaise'. A tragedy for the families collectively and, of course, the country.
3
That's part of growing up. My parents "lost" me to Switzerland many years ago because I married a Swiss man. Would they have been happier if I had just stayed at home? I doubt it. Maybe I am not in Connecticut for Christmas, but I am there lots of other times with my own family.
French malaise also has roots in the loss of French North America to the British in the Seven Years War, the loss to the Germans in 1870, the loss of millions of men in World War I, and is reflected in whatever was going on in the 1930's (see Marc Bloch's "Strange Defeat"). De Gaulle's going it alone foreign policy did not help and his abject surrender to the power of Arab oil contributed to the slide downhill. The claim that Vichy protected Jews is only true to the extent that Vichy threw "foreign" Jews to the Nazis first and supposedly "saved" native-born French Jews. Had the France not been liberated in 1944, all Jews would have been murdered.
2
Both of these authors and this editorialist, none of whom almost assuredly have any worries about employment or money, do a disservice to a discussion about French or American malaise. The French surely as much as Americans worry about losing their place on the economic ladder...of falling down the ladder. This is the true source of French and American anxieties. Houellebecq and Zemmour, on the other hand, long for a simpler time, an expanding economy, and a France dominated by white Frenchmen. Both writers are preoccupied with ideas that only barely penetrate the minds of people trying to get by. What unemployed Frenchman believes his fate is the result of the failure of his nation's centuries-long pursuit of glory? Further, since when has libertinism ever concerned the French?!? The French have always been on the cutting edge of what is morally acceptable, it seems to me. They may worry that immigrants are taking their jobs, but what does the "craving" for a "life-shaping creed" have to do with that? This slipshod argument reminds me of Dinesh D'Souza's idea that 9/11 happened because pious Muslims were appalled by American decadence. Anxiety and insecurity seem to define this moment. If someone can make the argument that the Valois kings are responsible for that, I'd like to hear it.
20
Having spent almost half a year traveling and in the homes of French people from Paris to Bordeaux to Marseille to Lyon to Pornichet, France is a country like not other. Where else do you have an ocean, a sea, mountains, vast rural areas, rivers, history, wine, baguettes, and coffee? No where else on earth! The political history made the French people who they are, and the main issue is that world changed, shifted, and France, has had a hard time moving with it. If it wouldn't be for the pay roads that all must travel on to traverse the country, and the beautiful places that tourists visit, France would be Greece. All of Europe is in transition because of the overpopulated of cultures that don't really understand who Europe is because they are not from them or like them in any way.
5
It's nice from you but France is not depending on tourism which is a very bit of our GDP, while France has always been one of the most rich country in the world : http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/history-of-world-gdp/
With all my due respect to Greek, we were never as Greece even though we took a copycat democracy, and what's doing our country was first and foremost its population that allow us to be always one of the richest in Europe.
France is not made up of beautiful places for tourist, even though you're always welcome.
With all my due respect to Greek, we were never as Greece even though we took a copycat democracy, and what's doing our country was first and foremost its population that allow us to be always one of the richest in Europe.
France is not made up of beautiful places for tourist, even though you're always welcome.
Have you BEEN to France?
Yeah? How many French people did you get to know well enough to decide whether they were melancholy or malaisey? You do realize that surprisingly few people living in France today went through the Fall of Rome, the ascent of the Valois kings, the French Revolution, or any other depressing-for-centuries trauma. Look how few people living in America are still all torn up over the British burning the White House in the War of 1812, the beating we took at the Alamo, or Custer getting the 7th Calvary annihilated. Defeats don't run with the land, and not even Lamarck thought they could be inherited. To the grandkids it's all ancient history.
The French aren't any more or any less subject to non-reactive depression than anybody else. Everybody gets sad when the unemployment rate is high, and especially when it's their kid or breadwinner who can't get a job, but the French know better than anyone how to enjoy life.
The French--even those with responsible roles--clock out at 17h00; they have great free health care; their kids don't have to worry about affording college; they can retire while they can still enjoy it, and in financial security; they drink wine every evening, their politicians speak in complete sentences, and their public transport actually works well.
Few French pine for the fjords, let alone for the good ol' Direct Capetians. The couple of them who do get stricken with the malaise manage to console themselves with book royalties.
Yeah? How many French people did you get to know well enough to decide whether they were melancholy or malaisey? You do realize that surprisingly few people living in France today went through the Fall of Rome, the ascent of the Valois kings, the French Revolution, or any other depressing-for-centuries trauma. Look how few people living in America are still all torn up over the British burning the White House in the War of 1812, the beating we took at the Alamo, or Custer getting the 7th Calvary annihilated. Defeats don't run with the land, and not even Lamarck thought they could be inherited. To the grandkids it's all ancient history.
The French aren't any more or any less subject to non-reactive depression than anybody else. Everybody gets sad when the unemployment rate is high, and especially when it's their kid or breadwinner who can't get a job, but the French know better than anyone how to enjoy life.
The French--even those with responsible roles--clock out at 17h00; they have great free health care; their kids don't have to worry about affording college; they can retire while they can still enjoy it, and in financial security; they drink wine every evening, their politicians speak in complete sentences, and their public transport actually works well.
Few French pine for the fjords, let alone for the good ol' Direct Capetians. The couple of them who do get stricken with the malaise manage to console themselves with book royalties.
42
The malaise is more linked to what's going in the "banlieues", or project housing. Knowing that things like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wTh6WgcHls happen in a daily routine and have never existed before in our history, it's a bit weary for us.
But you're right, renting in a project housing is really affordable. Problem is : what will happen when France could no longer pay for social benefits and be shunned by his creditors like Greece ?
But you're right, renting in a project housing is really affordable. Problem is : what will happen when France could no longer pay for social benefits and be shunned by his creditors like Greece ?
1
I have lived in France for 6 years and am married to a Frenchman and I find the French malaise to be very real.
People such as my in-laws, who grew up expecting to have a certain amount of government support and aid, now face their golden years with considerable anxiety. Many French people I know feel threatened by young French-Muslims who, unlike their parents, do not want to fit in to traditional French culture. Whether you agree of disagree with this reaction, the feelings and their effect on French society are real.
Also, most people in France do not clock out at 17h. It's very common for French bosses to keep their employees at work until 18h or 19h. As a result, a lot of French people feel burned out. Plus, the cost of living in France is very high and salaries are not keeping up. I work at a French Grande Ecole where tuition is quickly catching up to American standards. This scares many French families, especially considering that unemployment among youth in France is also higher than ever.
French people love to complain and worry, and Americans like to scoff at this and say, 'Oh, those whiny French.' But I believe that a growing number of French people have real reason to complain and to worry (just like the rest of us!). Yes, the wine is still flowing, but along with it flow many French tears.
People such as my in-laws, who grew up expecting to have a certain amount of government support and aid, now face their golden years with considerable anxiety. Many French people I know feel threatened by young French-Muslims who, unlike their parents, do not want to fit in to traditional French culture. Whether you agree of disagree with this reaction, the feelings and their effect on French society are real.
Also, most people in France do not clock out at 17h. It's very common for French bosses to keep their employees at work until 18h or 19h. As a result, a lot of French people feel burned out. Plus, the cost of living in France is very high and salaries are not keeping up. I work at a French Grande Ecole where tuition is quickly catching up to American standards. This scares many French families, especially considering that unemployment among youth in France is also higher than ever.
French people love to complain and worry, and Americans like to scoff at this and say, 'Oh, those whiny French.' But I believe that a growing number of French people have real reason to complain and to worry (just like the rest of us!). Yes, the wine is still flowing, but along with it flow many French tears.
1
Wow,
Have YOU been to France?
I agree that most of us - French - have little concern about our former dream of greatness. This feeling died long ago.
Today, the French society is worried. Not because of our shrinking influence on the rest of the world, but because we see precarity and inequalities growing. And the worst thing is that nothing gives us reasons to hope: the establishment holds toght on its privileges, no credible alternative is offered by our politicians, industries are closing on a daily basis...
And on this worries fester communitarism, hence the emergence of islamophobia, or antisemitism, racism, social discrimination... Because it is easier to put the blame on someone different.
As for the enjoyment of the life, and the nightly wine drinking, let me just laugh. The clocking-out at 5pm is a myth, as is the "free" health-care and educational system: we pay a taxes and other contributions to pay for it. Also, did you know that our retirement system is on the verge of bankruptcy - another reason to worry... -?
Finally, if earning book royalties was a side-effect of malaise, our finances would be in a much better state.
Have YOU been to France?
I agree that most of us - French - have little concern about our former dream of greatness. This feeling died long ago.
Today, the French society is worried. Not because of our shrinking influence on the rest of the world, but because we see precarity and inequalities growing. And the worst thing is that nothing gives us reasons to hope: the establishment holds toght on its privileges, no credible alternative is offered by our politicians, industries are closing on a daily basis...
And on this worries fester communitarism, hence the emergence of islamophobia, or antisemitism, racism, social discrimination... Because it is easier to put the blame on someone different.
As for the enjoyment of the life, and the nightly wine drinking, let me just laugh. The clocking-out at 5pm is a myth, as is the "free" health-care and educational system: we pay a taxes and other contributions to pay for it. Also, did you know that our retirement system is on the verge of bankruptcy - another reason to worry... -?
Finally, if earning book royalties was a side-effect of malaise, our finances would be in a much better state.
1
I always wonder, when I read about the French malaise, why the French don't just look around at the breath-taking beauty of their countryside and cheer up. A hike, a horse back ride, a walk in the fields. So various, so productive, so strange in some places, and so full of history. The weather is often good, at least by UK standards, and the vegetation thrives. It is a place I often long to be. It should lift the spirits.
7
I'm glad I won't be around to see any of this.
3
I work in high-tech with people from all over the world including Muslims from Pakistan, Lebanon, Iran, Nigeria. It's great.
We all want interesting work, buy a house, send our kids to college, vacation, etc.
But I would not like anyone, Muslim or Christian telling me I had to adhere to their religion.
And that seems to be the problem in Europe. Multiculturalism is one thing, Muslim extremist telling others how to live is another.
Even my Muslim friends don't want that and is one reason they left their countries.
We all want interesting work, buy a house, send our kids to college, vacation, etc.
But I would not like anyone, Muslim or Christian telling me I had to adhere to their religion.
And that seems to be the problem in Europe. Multiculturalism is one thing, Muslim extremist telling others how to live is another.
Even my Muslim friends don't want that and is one reason they left their countries.
3
The ideals of liberalism (or Roman law, or citizenship, or call modern legal constructs of freedom how you will) have *always* operated in tension or argument with more atavistic or premodern ethnic and cultural identities. Indeed, even in the Anglophone tradition, John Locke's social contract theory operated at first as an argument against a particular form of English nativism. This is not a new story and does not apply only to France.
The problem is how to square the aspirations of legal bases of citizenship with people's longing for a sense of cultural belonging. You can't have a satisfying national experience without a sense of belonging, nor can you have a just civil society without legalistic or liberal virtues. This is the problem that needs to be discussed, without race-baiting, without hating religion, and without continually living in a cycle of recrimination, either from the point of view of immigrants or from the point of view of the melancholy first borns of Western nations. Each group must agree to raprochement with the others desires and ideals.
The problem is how to square the aspirations of legal bases of citizenship with people's longing for a sense of cultural belonging. You can't have a satisfying national experience without a sense of belonging, nor can you have a just civil society without legalistic or liberal virtues. This is the problem that needs to be discussed, without race-baiting, without hating religion, and without continually living in a cycle of recrimination, either from the point of view of immigrants or from the point of view of the melancholy first borns of Western nations. Each group must agree to raprochement with the others desires and ideals.
11
MALAISE MY FOOT
Rather a mal at ease in the beautiful countryside, well preserved and well designed Chateaux's on the horizon, organic wines and excellent foods on the table, thin, witty and yes, sometimes mal-content than fat and happy looking out on a wasteland where the empty bullet casings litter the ground. To each his own.
Rather a mal at ease in the beautiful countryside, well preserved and well designed Chateaux's on the horizon, organic wines and excellent foods on the table, thin, witty and yes, sometimes mal-content than fat and happy looking out on a wasteland where the empty bullet casings litter the ground. To each his own.
4
Two observations: Many people would rather have 10 commandments than 52 channels and nothing on. See Eric Fromm's Fear of Freedom.
My experience with the French and France is limited and very different than most commentator. In my 20 years as and American Infantry Officer I had the opportunity to work with both the regular French Army and elements of their Foreign Legion. They are by a long shot more squared away than any that I have worked with in Germany or Italy. French malaise? We are all depressed. Until we are not! And you know what brings me out of it? Wnen I see my beautiful wife and my beautiful boys, I'm not depressed anymore. I'm motivated.
My experience with the French and France is limited and very different than most commentator. In my 20 years as and American Infantry Officer I had the opportunity to work with both the regular French Army and elements of their Foreign Legion. They are by a long shot more squared away than any that I have worked with in Germany or Italy. French malaise? We are all depressed. Until we are not! And you know what brings me out of it? Wnen I see my beautiful wife and my beautiful boys, I'm not depressed anymore. I'm motivated.
4
As a long-term resident of France, this "review" is the kind of thing you read often by overstuffed intellectuals but rarely encounter in the everyday life here. live where Houellebecq was born and most people here just dismiss him as a weirdo, however proud they might be of him as a "local".
6
At least the somber mood hasn't hurt French comedies. I Do: How to get Married and Stay Single is a good example. The main character is played by Charlotte Gainsbourg, daughter of Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin. They also lack that Puritanical streak that makes US filmmakers cut scenes needlessly. Serge And Jane's "Je t'aime ... Moi Non Plus" is about as far from Puritanical as possible. So I see the French as a society with few hang-ups, who can cure the blues with une film.
5
I have not read either of the two books discussed and so have no idea whether or not they are Islamo-phobic, but I do wonder why Muslims have immigrated and continue to immigrate to France ( as well as other European countries ) if indeed French society is so anti-Islamic as many claim. I mean why go to a place where one can quite likely encounter discriminatory treatment?
4
This is not particularly hard to understand. The huge influx of immigrants from Islamic countries, from Africa and Eastern Europe has savaged the French identity. Being a Frenchman no longer means what it once did, with the unique and complex culture that France enjoyed for centuries.
Now it's a big seething melting pot serving the ideological interests of European Union one-worlders and not the natural citizens of France. The government is advancing draconian laws against freedom of expression in order to quell opposition. It's not hard to see why the National Front has done as well as it has and were it not for relentless media hostility it would do much better.
The same issue exists throughout Europe but the recent Muslim violence has focused on France. Multi-culturalism necessarily means the relative destruction of the host culture, a fact that was not lost on global financial elites who care little where their profits come from or at what cost.
Now it's a big seething melting pot serving the ideological interests of European Union one-worlders and not the natural citizens of France. The government is advancing draconian laws against freedom of expression in order to quell opposition. It's not hard to see why the National Front has done as well as it has and were it not for relentless media hostility it would do much better.
The same issue exists throughout Europe but the recent Muslim violence has focused on France. Multi-culturalism necessarily means the relative destruction of the host culture, a fact that was not lost on global financial elites who care little where their profits come from or at what cost.
9
Mr. Gobry is correct, in as far as he goes. He neglects to mention that the collapse of the Third Republic to the dynamic, "youthful", self-assured and "inevitable" fascist groups was based on the same sort of anomie as is fashionable in France now. He omits the effects of the French-Algerian War and the debacle in French Indochina, both of which post-date the apocalypse of the Second World War. This was yet another major humiliation for the putatively superior French forces, this time to the long-time enemy, Germany. Finally, Jean Raspail wrote a much more trenchant satire of the pre- "post-modern" era in his anti-immigration/anti-multicultural 1973 book, "The Camp of the Saints": he makes many of the same points as does Houellebecq, but does so in a much more lively fashion.
In short, none of this is new but all of it is portentous, especially when considered in conjunction with the rise of the far Right, the FN in France, Jobbik in Hungary and others in the "spent" EU.
In short, none of this is new but all of it is portentous, especially when considered in conjunction with the rise of the far Right, the FN in France, Jobbik in Hungary and others in the "spent" EU.
2
Freedom, for all its benefits, IS stressful, It is also challenging. It forces us to stray beyond our comfortably unexamined assumptions to do some moral and intellectual heavy lifting.
That's why humankind invented religion, basically, as a labor-saving device. With such a spiritual tool, essential truths are gift-wrapped for us. All we need to do is to pay a tithe, open the box and, presto, our world is laid out for us like a grade-school diorama.
"Polygamy, especially, affords men marital and sexual fulfillment. Shariah-mandated social subsidies afford women security and liberation from the pressures of trying to combine career and family."
Something for everyone here! What's not to like?
That's why humankind invented religion, basically, as a labor-saving device. With such a spiritual tool, essential truths are gift-wrapped for us. All we need to do is to pay a tithe, open the box and, presto, our world is laid out for us like a grade-school diorama.
"Polygamy, especially, affords men marital and sexual fulfillment. Shariah-mandated social subsidies afford women security and liberation from the pressures of trying to combine career and family."
Something for everyone here! What's not to like?
2
The occidental traders, missionaries, benevolent servicemen & the anthropologists, both amateur & professional, gave us the multicultural societies we're faced with today.
"Anthropology is the outcome of an historical process, which has made the larger part of mankind subservient to the other.." Claude Levi-Strauss
We have to learn the answers to problems compounded by the imperialists on a daily basis.
"Anthropology is the outcome of an historical process, which has made the larger part of mankind subservient to the other.." Claude Levi-Strauss
We have to learn the answers to problems compounded by the imperialists on a daily basis.
French malaise is akin to Japanese malaise is akin to British malaise, etc., ad nauseam. The era of European dominance (France being for a time at the forefront) of the world is slowly drawing to a close. Look at a globe. Europe is just a spit of peninsula grafted to the hindquarters of Asia. About half the world's population lives on the land mass east of what is known as Europe. Another billion live in Africa. Europe is maybe 400 million. It is long past time that Europe (and France with it) lost influence to more populous, and potentially prosperous, states.
Malaise is what an empire in decline feels like. And France is definitely that, along with most of the rest of Europe, the US and Japan.
Malaise is what an empire in decline feels like. And France is definitely that, along with most of the rest of Europe, the US and Japan.
1
To quote your article: "Shariah-mandated social subsidies afford women security and liberation from the pressures of trying to combine career and family."
Seriously? How about mentioning all the abuses inflicted upon women under Sharia? If you research the NYT's own archives, I'm sure you can find a multitude of examples.
Seriously? How about mentioning all the abuses inflicted upon women under Sharia? If you research the NYT's own archives, I'm sure you can find a multitude of examples.
5
Neither of the two philosophers that Gobry mentions seem to acknowledge French Colonialism. As with British Colonialism in Africa and India and Spanish Colonialism in the Americas, French Colonialism in Africa has come define the former Colonizer. When you rape and pillage other lands with impunity as these imperial powers have done, you lose your soul. When immigrants from your former colonies arrive at your shores, you have nothing to offer them other than the so-called Western progress, which is mere materialism.
It is time for empires to acknowledge the atrocities of the past and create a culture of inclusion, not just assimilation. France and UK have not done it. In the US, we have a similar problem with our own racial and religious bigotries because of our unwillingness to redress grievances originating in slavery, Jim Crow and centuries of discrimination against people of color. Again, inclusion is the solution and that won't come without repentance and course correction.
It is time for empires to acknowledge the atrocities of the past and create a culture of inclusion, not just assimilation. France and UK have not done it. In the US, we have a similar problem with our own racial and religious bigotries because of our unwillingness to redress grievances originating in slavery, Jim Crow and centuries of discrimination against people of color. Again, inclusion is the solution and that won't come without repentance and course correction.
44
Have not all empires, dynasty's,, conquers, victors--for all recorded history--at some point in time, been accused-- or have in fact-- committed some great crime against some group of people?? Find one instance where this is not so. For the most part the democracies of the West (with the exception of the Hitler years) have a far better historical track record than most.... even with all our bad behavior. This does not excuse our existing problems. But sometimes it is impossible to right all the wrongs from proceeding history..
2
My friend you hit the nail squarely on its head.
Blame the victim, in this sense. How utterly original!
1
The governments of Europe who so cavalierly brought in millions of immigrants who shared nothing of their values, history, culture, and language as the easy way to address shrinking families and workforces (connected to the failure to address the tougher task of better economies and fixing their once-fine school systems) are now reaping what they have sown: cultural and national weakening and the threat of replacement of the host culture.
Bruce Brawer's "While Europe Slept" also addressed the creeping loss of cultures that produces huge advances socially, politically, artistically, medically, and technologically. The left of course seized control of the narrative and began trumpeting "multiculturalism" and screaming "racist" "bigot" at any European who dared suggest that there were real losses here, and that perhaps a Balkanised, identity-politics, tick-box society wasn't really what they wanted.
The cowards who refused to listen to early warnings about cultural dissolution now have what they deserve - the rise of the right, giving a voice to those with legitimate questions about cultural heritage, preservation, and direction that the left and officialdom, suffocated by political correctness, refused to give them.
Bruce Brawer's "While Europe Slept" also addressed the creeping loss of cultures that produces huge advances socially, politically, artistically, medically, and technologically. The left of course seized control of the narrative and began trumpeting "multiculturalism" and screaming "racist" "bigot" at any European who dared suggest that there were real losses here, and that perhaps a Balkanised, identity-politics, tick-box society wasn't really what they wanted.
The cowards who refused to listen to early warnings about cultural dissolution now have what they deserve - the rise of the right, giving a voice to those with legitimate questions about cultural heritage, preservation, and direction that the left and officialdom, suffocated by political correctness, refused to give them.
84
Elizabeth Renant,
Your great great grandparents didn't share any "values, history, culture, and language" of the natives in America yet they came, colonized this land and built "advance civilization" on top of it.
If only the natives in America, Australia, Canada, Latin America had stood up against your ancestors....
Your great great grandparents didn't share any "values, history, culture, and language" of the natives in America yet they came, colonized this land and built "advance civilization" on top of it.
If only the natives in America, Australia, Canada, Latin America had stood up against your ancestors....
1
Excellent article. Good just laying out of ideas for the unfamiliar (with France) to consider. Thank you.
8
I do not fear a muslim takeover in the US; I have far more to fear from Christian fundamentalists with no regard for our constitutional separation of church and state. Yet I do look at other countries, as far flung as France, the Philippines, Kenya and Indonesia and absolutely quake. What, the world should be asking, is it about Islam that makes so many apparently sane people convert to this 10th century faith, or to hold its ideals ahead of the superior values of the countries to which they migrate? This religion holds back its own middle eastern people in readily measurable ways-- it seems logical that people elsewhere would NOT convert or would throw off the shackles when they move away from this awful homeland. And yet this is not the way it is working out. Why? This is the question for our time, and this should be the basis for any Western foreign policy initiatives, any internal aid to muslim immigrants, any external foreign aid to Islam nations, any economic choices made by the corportocracy and the governments they own.
49
"What is it about Islam that makes so many apparently sane people convert to this 10th century faith?" There are many mosques in the East bay (near Benicia) that would surely welcome your visit, and perhaps a respectful comparison with the 0th century faith that other people choose.
Does Islam constitute the shackles of "this awful (Middle Eastern) homeland"? Hardly. Like anywhere else, oppressive governments use the local faith to extend their rule, see also the divine right of kings, etc. You might add Dubai and Morocco to your list of places to visit, both primarily Islamic, both pretty nice.
As for "holding its ideals ahead of the superior values of the countries to which they migrate". this is primarily a European issue. Europe leans more towards concentrations of impoverished immigrants; if you do check out any local mosques I think you'll find that American Muslim immigrants, by and large, love this place.
Does Islam constitute the shackles of "this awful (Middle Eastern) homeland"? Hardly. Like anywhere else, oppressive governments use the local faith to extend their rule, see also the divine right of kings, etc. You might add Dubai and Morocco to your list of places to visit, both primarily Islamic, both pretty nice.
As for "holding its ideals ahead of the superior values of the countries to which they migrate". this is primarily a European issue. Europe leans more towards concentrations of impoverished immigrants; if you do check out any local mosques I think you'll find that American Muslim immigrants, by and large, love this place.
1
The answer is: anger. The fomenting of anger and thereby irrationality and stubbornness is a handy tool for manipulation by clever opportunists. That's what politics and religion do! They've done this for many centuries. Has anyone...noticed?
These authors posit that Islam, by default is getting sucked into the vacumn (anomie) left over from Frances less than successful historical & psychological policies/adventures. This sounds like destiny being dictated by the past, a not necessary outcome if the culture would embrace the future and dump the ancien tropes
2
this is all scholarly make-believe. Its what scholars do, fill journals with endless articles reducing the complex story of a nation to some ridiculous untestable formula like "pining for a new Roman Empire".
27
You are precisely on target with your conclusion.
1
Zemmour is hardly a scholar, and I can't imagine many academic historians taking his account seriously, in France or elsewhere. He is a right-wing nationalist mythmaker, making up stories for the disappointed masses to believe, (and I suspect also distracting them from the economic causes for their disappointment, which have little to do with immigration). Europe has a long, unhappy, history with such nationalist populism
Houellebecq, whatever one might think of him, is a novelist, not a 'scholar'.
I agree that the article peddles a ridiculous, untestable formula, but the implication that this is somehow 'scholarly' slanders people who actually know something about this history. And I agree with 'Traveler', below, who calls into question the agenda of the author of this article.
Houellebecq, whatever one might think of him, is a novelist, not a 'scholar'.
I agree that the article peddles a ridiculous, untestable formula, but the implication that this is somehow 'scholarly' slanders people who actually know something about this history. And I agree with 'Traveler', below, who calls into question the agenda of the author of this article.
How tiresome. Another NYT article bashing France and the French. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Unlike the U.S., France is a country with a sense of nationhood. This is shown in part by its generous social safety net, in which ALL citizens are regarded as members of the Republic and therefore deserving of a basic standard of living.
Also, France far surpasses the U.S. in terms of its civilization. Learning is admired, and thus university is practically free for those who qualify. Students are admitted on the basis of academic achievement, not for peripheral reasons (e.g., football proficiency) as in the U.S.
I watch several French TV talk shows on YouTube. The hosts and guests are articulate and intellectually accomplished. The participants discuss serious topics with passion and vigor. These shows are a good cut above the so-called "serious" talk shows in the U.S. I’ve seen both Zemmour and Houellebecq on such shows and, while they are both provocateurs, the French take their ideas seriously.
As for that imputed French melancholy, I believe that the French seem gloomy to Americans because the latter display a forced, false cheerfulness and optimism. It's virtually a crime not to be cheerful in America. To me, the French seem much more realistic about life.
So, NYT, how about an admiring article about France for a change?
Unlike the U.S., France is a country with a sense of nationhood. This is shown in part by its generous social safety net, in which ALL citizens are regarded as members of the Republic and therefore deserving of a basic standard of living.
Also, France far surpasses the U.S. in terms of its civilization. Learning is admired, and thus university is practically free for those who qualify. Students are admitted on the basis of academic achievement, not for peripheral reasons (e.g., football proficiency) as in the U.S.
I watch several French TV talk shows on YouTube. The hosts and guests are articulate and intellectually accomplished. The participants discuss serious topics with passion and vigor. These shows are a good cut above the so-called "serious" talk shows in the U.S. I’ve seen both Zemmour and Houellebecq on such shows and, while they are both provocateurs, the French take their ideas seriously.
As for that imputed French melancholy, I believe that the French seem gloomy to Americans because the latter display a forced, false cheerfulness and optimism. It's virtually a crime not to be cheerful in America. To me, the French seem much more realistic about life.
So, NYT, how about an admiring article about France for a change?
124
"The hosts and guests are articulate and intellectually accomplished."
True, for French TV talkshows, however I am constantly amazed at the intellectual superiority of readers' comments posted on this newspaper's site compared with those of iconic French media such as Le Monde. As for readership in the US compared to France: going by the numbers and the frequently high standard of reviews on Amazon, there would seem to be a huge cultural gap with France...
True, for French TV talkshows, however I am constantly amazed at the intellectual superiority of readers' comments posted on this newspaper's site compared with those of iconic French media such as Le Monde. As for readership in the US compared to France: going by the numbers and the frequently high standard of reviews on Amazon, there would seem to be a huge cultural gap with France...
3
Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry is a man and he is French.
1
What has how always impressed me most about France is not her writers or painters or musicians or leaders (I am reading a biography if Napoleon now--surely one of the greatest men who ever lived), not its great cities--all of which are splendid, but its title "eldest daughter of the Church." What other country can claim that? Aren't its great cathedrals and abbeys (most destroyed in the Revolution), its great universities that were founded to educate the clergy (the Revolution's anti-clericalism lingers on), all witnesses to the great contribution France made to deserve that title. If France would reflect upon that history and take pride in that title and burnish it a bit, its critics might not have to worry that Islam has more to offer its youth.
12
Malaise and insecurity are typical symptoms of successful, developed countries, just as depression and anxiety are disproportionately manifested in individuals of high intelligence and achievement. The concerns of a post-secular nation will always be unique insofar as they relate to things like prestige and intellectual standing, rather than the need for ideological certainty. The immaturity of the Islamist movement is betrayed by its insistence that Islam is entitled to respect and expansion. But religion is a zero-sum game, and none should expect that Islamists will ever reciprocate the generosity of western values. If France worries about the aggrandizement of its culture by foreigners, then it should lay down the law, dictate what is right, and move on to the bigger questions: how can it use its model of socialism to encourage the best in people, rather than the worst?
16
Who better to talk about the French Malaise than Zemmour and Houellebecq, two Islamophobes who think that the root of France's problems is Islam. "a most stupid religion," and once all the Muslims living in France are deported, all will be solved. This dangerous perspective, of course, excludes those French "de souche," meaning white, who are also Muslim; it also excludes those generations of French citizens, born and raised in France, but whose parents and grand-parents hailed from French colonies. The true source of French malaise are the likes of Zemmour and Houellebecq. I find the agenda of the article's writer rather dubious.
23
I teach French and have been studying the notion of the French republican identity. In schools, students are not allowed to wear signs of their religion like the veil. The government's pedagogical manual on this policy explains that students must learn to question and ideally reject their ethnic and religious background to become true citizens. Republican equality and fraternity depend on an effacement of ethnic and religious differences. This attitude comes through in Gobry's editorial: he is "against postmodern multiculturalism" on the grounds that it makes it "harder to integrate Muslim youth." I would like to see France embrace multiculturalism as a way to affirm those who are disaffected and allow for true equality and fraternity.
7
I once had an acquaintance from France, who lived near me in Vermont. After listening to him on various occasions extoling the virtues (endlessly) of French culture--and all of the advantages of living there, I impolitely pointed out, "yes, but Charles--you have chosen to live HERE!!".
His answer was astonishing--as I think he constructed it on the fly. He pointed out that in France--and in many European countries, there is no hope for a better life. He admitted that everyone, no matter how lowly, had a safety net--a floor set under their existence--but that no matter what position one occupied in life--it was unlikely to change--for better or worse.
I have often reflected upon his comments--and when I hear the phrase "French Malaise", I think of Charles. One of the great things about America is that, with enough hard work, our position in life can be improved. That knowledge differentiates our countries--and makes all the difference in the world. Yes, I'm aware that Liberals here would tend to disagree with that idea, but then again...so would most people who live in France.
His answer was astonishing--as I think he constructed it on the fly. He pointed out that in France--and in many European countries, there is no hope for a better life. He admitted that everyone, no matter how lowly, had a safety net--a floor set under their existence--but that no matter what position one occupied in life--it was unlikely to change--for better or worse.
I have often reflected upon his comments--and when I hear the phrase "French Malaise", I think of Charles. One of the great things about America is that, with enough hard work, our position in life can be improved. That knowledge differentiates our countries--and makes all the difference in the world. Yes, I'm aware that Liberals here would tend to disagree with that idea, but then again...so would most people who live in France.
22
It's my understanding that over the past decade or two, European economic mobility has outstripped ours. One reads and hears too often about US college grads, many thousands of dollars in debt, working part-time jobs for little more than minimum wage. If it was true in the past that the US provided more social mobility than Europe, it's no longer the case. How many years ago, Jesse, did you have this interesting exchange with your French acquaintance?
6
Similar to France, our America is not the same as when I grew up.
Look up the economic term 'mobility' which is what you are describing, the possibility of getting ahead with hard work, etc. It turns out that we are not what we used to be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
"Of the eight countries studied — Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK and the USA, the USA had both the highest economic inequality and lowest economic mobility."
France was not part of the study. We also have the highest incarceration rate and rank somewhere around 17 in education.
I have a friend who came here 30 years ago from Netherlands and said the US was like that when he came here but not any more and Netherlands has more advantages today. Unfortunately, Netherlands has its own problems with Muslim extremists.
Look up the economic term 'mobility' which is what you are describing, the possibility of getting ahead with hard work, etc. It turns out that we are not what we used to be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
"Of the eight countries studied — Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK and the USA, the USA had both the highest economic inequality and lowest economic mobility."
France was not part of the study. We also have the highest incarceration rate and rank somewhere around 17 in education.
I have a friend who came here 30 years ago from Netherlands and said the US was like that when he came here but not any more and Netherlands has more advantages today. Unfortunately, Netherlands has its own problems with Muslim extremists.
2
OECD studies (2010) of father's and son's income and earnings indicate that France and US both have unenviable social mobility rates when compared to Nordic countries, Australia and Canada. The studies show that France allows slightly more social mobility than the US; that a higher rate of French children transcend their class origins than do US children.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/mar/10/oecd-uk-worst-social-mob...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/mar/10/oecd-uk-worst-social-mob...
1
What are their diagnoses worth? Très peu. Mr. Zemmour's work is very dangerous in the hands of those who may not understand its (occasional) nuance. France does not face anything close to an imminent threat from Islamofascists or whatever term is now in vogue with alarmists. There are real wounds in the French soul, but healing is not likely to come from these two men, intellectual rabble-rousers (or from the National Front).
It is easy to read news articles and become deeply concerned latest Western young people apprehended for trying to join ISIL; it is appropriate, however, to understand just how tiny of a percentage these individuals represent. It is irresponsible to even suggest that Westerners or anyone else is rushing to join the ranks of ISIL. Restez calme et tenez bon, s'il vous plaît!
It is easy to read news articles and become deeply concerned latest Western young people apprehended for trying to join ISIL; it is appropriate, however, to understand just how tiny of a percentage these individuals represent. It is irresponsible to even suggest that Westerners or anyone else is rushing to join the ranks of ISIL. Restez calme et tenez bon, s'il vous plaît!
58
I was a foreign study student in France in 1983 and was struck at that time by a seeming malaise in French culture. The sense of irony seemed to mask a sense of defeat, wine drinking sapped initiative and substituted for conversation, the French didn't seem to read books very much, and their vaunted superiority in Fashion was being challenged by the Italians. Their movies were uninteresting and compensated through sensationalism. The only way they were truly superior to other cultures was in their cuisine.
7
A superior cuisine is sufficient but in truth, the French are second to none.
1
Hmmmmmm, 1983...Could that have anything to do with 1981 and how its elections were panning out???
The myth of French liberal civil secular plural egalitarian democracy arising from liberty, equality and fraternity is belied by France's historical immoral inhumane perfidy in slavery, imperialism and colonialism.
Protestants (Europe), Blacks (Mali, Haiti and Senegal) Asian Buddhists (Vietnam and Cambodia), Jews (Vichy, Petain and Dreyfus) and Muslims (Algeria, Palestine and France) have been the targets of white French Roman Catholic supremacist tactics and strategies.
The French have great food, remarkable visual and written arts, leading scientific and technology and an amazing philosophical political traditions..
But see "The Battle of Algiers" film along with the film "The Emperor Jones" based upon the Eugene O' Neil play of the same name.
And remember Toussaint Louverture, Henri Christophe and Jean Jacques Dessalines. Along with recalling the nationalist hubris of Charlemagne, Maximillian Robespierre, Louis XVI, Napoleon Bonaparte and Charles De Gaulle.
Protestants (Europe), Blacks (Mali, Haiti and Senegal) Asian Buddhists (Vietnam and Cambodia), Jews (Vichy, Petain and Dreyfus) and Muslims (Algeria, Palestine and France) have been the targets of white French Roman Catholic supremacist tactics and strategies.
The French have great food, remarkable visual and written arts, leading scientific and technology and an amazing philosophical political traditions..
But see "The Battle of Algiers" film along with the film "The Emperor Jones" based upon the Eugene O' Neil play of the same name.
And remember Toussaint Louverture, Henri Christophe and Jean Jacques Dessalines. Along with recalling the nationalist hubris of Charlemagne, Maximillian Robespierre, Louis XVI, Napoleon Bonaparte and Charles De Gaulle.
19
Every country, tribe or culture has grown through slavery, imperialism and colonialism.
Arabs, Turks, Huns, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Zulus, Incas, Mayas or whatnot have all done atrocities beyond our wildest imagination.
And If you look for "inhumane perfidy", I'm sure you can find much worthier targets in this day and age (Putin, China, ISIS, Venezuela...).
But of course, it's much more convenient to attack one of the few countries that defend freedom of speech/democracy and have ACKNOWLEDGED their historic and historical shortcomings (unlike the examples above) from the comfort and safety of your Illinois living room.
PS: I'm French, in Hong Kong, and I participated in the pro-democracy demonstrations there against the most dangerous regime in the planet, the PRC. What have you done for democracy and freedom lately?
Arabs, Turks, Huns, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Zulus, Incas, Mayas or whatnot have all done atrocities beyond our wildest imagination.
And If you look for "inhumane perfidy", I'm sure you can find much worthier targets in this day and age (Putin, China, ISIS, Venezuela...).
But of course, it's much more convenient to attack one of the few countries that defend freedom of speech/democracy and have ACKNOWLEDGED their historic and historical shortcomings (unlike the examples above) from the comfort and safety of your Illinois living room.
PS: I'm French, in Hong Kong, and I participated in the pro-democracy demonstrations there against the most dangerous regime in the planet, the PRC. What have you done for democracy and freedom lately?
41
What? You mean - gasp! - France wasn't absolutely perfect and that white Europeans are as tribal as anyone else? Quel surprise!
Nationalist hubris? Welcome to Planet Earth, where tribalism, contrary to the Left's fantasies, has never gone away, and never will.
Nationalist hubris? Welcome to Planet Earth, where tribalism, contrary to the Left's fantasies, has never gone away, and never will.
21
Blackmamba, you said it, as have one or two others on this thread (amazingly few, actually), and indeed you seem to have touched a nerve!
Neither flying into a rage about how "everybody has done it" nor celebrating "tribalism" (ugh) is to the point, which is that the relations between France and the Muslim world are entangled in a history that needs to be acknowledged. Otherwise these responses are simply off-topic (and hilarious, if one pretends that one is somehow on the frontlines pulling down a nice expat package in Hong Kong!).
Neither flying into a rage about how "everybody has done it" nor celebrating "tribalism" (ugh) is to the point, which is that the relations between France and the Muslim world are entangled in a history that needs to be acknowledged. Otherwise these responses are simply off-topic (and hilarious, if one pretends that one is somehow on the frontlines pulling down a nice expat package in Hong Kong!).
1
Ever since the days of Berthe au grand Pied, French people have been introspective and self-critical. Part of the wounding of the soul may be the result of a long history of absolute monarchy and of autocratic control of religion. The contrast with GB is stark.
Beginning with Runnymede, through Henry VIII’s break with Rome, on to the Commonwealth of Cromwell, and then the Glorious Revolution of 1688, the English managed to craft a national ethos including a constrained monarchy and a national church.
Who are the French? Gaul? Norman? Burgundian? Visigoth? Roman Catholic? French, I suppose. But they’re not all convinced.
Our problems in America are such that works like those of Zemmour and Houellebecq would have little traction here. When Charlie Rose interviews some French speaker, it's likely to be the apparatchik Christine Lagarde or Bernard-Henri Levy, philosophe ordinaire. Our “intellectual” commentators are tiresomely fond of quoting De Tocqueville.
Apart from indulging the nativist schadenfreude of some Americans, this article might encourage others to take a deeper look at the modern world and the real challenges we all face. ISIS is a symptom, however dangerous.
Beginning with Runnymede, through Henry VIII’s break with Rome, on to the Commonwealth of Cromwell, and then the Glorious Revolution of 1688, the English managed to craft a national ethos including a constrained monarchy and a national church.
Who are the French? Gaul? Norman? Burgundian? Visigoth? Roman Catholic? French, I suppose. But they’re not all convinced.
Our problems in America are such that works like those of Zemmour and Houellebecq would have little traction here. When Charlie Rose interviews some French speaker, it's likely to be the apparatchik Christine Lagarde or Bernard-Henri Levy, philosophe ordinaire. Our “intellectual” commentators are tiresomely fond of quoting De Tocqueville.
Apart from indulging the nativist schadenfreude of some Americans, this article might encourage others to take a deeper look at the modern world and the real challenges we all face. ISIS is a symptom, however dangerous.
8
Why does this despair negate all the good that France and the West have achieved? Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? Because you don't like the direction things are going there is no reason to self-flagellate.
Look at Islam's dismal achievement in creating a modern civilization and Western Europe's. While not perfect, we had an Enlightenment. Keep building on that; Islam does not have much to offer a modern, sophisticated people like the French, unless they are ashamed of what they achieved. Look in the mirror, France, you're still beautiful, warts and all.
Look at Islam's dismal achievement in creating a modern civilization and Western Europe's. While not perfect, we had an Enlightenment. Keep building on that; Islam does not have much to offer a modern, sophisticated people like the French, unless they are ashamed of what they achieved. Look in the mirror, France, you're still beautiful, warts and all.
123
Lack of progress, success, modernity, and sophistication can be laid directly at the feet of religious extremism.
12
You said it best. Part of the West's problem now is our emphasis on multi-multiculturalism-- in the public schools, in the town square, in our signs, ballots and public documents in too many languages, ETC. As well as our constant self loathing. People think it is chic to say "americans are stupid," or "french are depressed." as if this is some kind of introspection. Here in the states we need to go back to teaching history and civics-- to gain an appreciation of all that has been achieved. The Islamic world really has nothing to offer the west that is superior; I would argue the same thing about much of Asia-- men who are willing to bring the elephant to extinction by having them killed for their tusks so they can have a better (blank) are not the equal of men in the West. People in Korea that want to eat man's best friend are not as culturally advanced either. We need to stand up for the western values and build upon them. Hard to do however, when the oligarchy tries to help them more than they help US.
11
For the non-West and especially for Africans and Muslims, the West does not stand for "modern civilization" or "Enlightenment" and instead the "West" and "France" stand for imperialism, plunder, genocide, occupation, coup, war, mayhem, blood, murder and more murder.
It is Islam that inspired the Algerians to resist and expel French out of their land. Islam's contribution to the freedom of Muslims from the Western colonization is immense. Islam deserves immense credits for inspiring freedom in the hearts of Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, African-American Muslims who live surrounded by Westerners.
It is Islam that inspired the Algerians to resist and expel French out of their land. Islam's contribution to the freedom of Muslims from the Western colonization is immense. Islam deserves immense credits for inspiring freedom in the hearts of Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, African-American Muslims who live surrounded by Westerners.
ON FRENCH MALAISE . . .
Ah! Should your essay have a great deal of validity ... I posit that paradoxically it brings to the French an abundance of meaning and a feeling of superiority which allows them to believe that they are special. For they consist of more intellectuals than folks in other Western nations as they view reality as it is ... and, this is quite reinforcing.
And being miserable can be quite enlightening and pleasurable.
Ah! Should your essay have a great deal of validity ... I posit that paradoxically it brings to the French an abundance of meaning and a feeling of superiority which allows them to believe that they are special. For they consist of more intellectuals than folks in other Western nations as they view reality as it is ... and, this is quite reinforcing.
And being miserable can be quite enlightening and pleasurable.
6
It is very difficult to view entire picture on France or Germany in comparison with UK because of the language problem. However, Nicholas Kristof gives us the short way to do this, namely Social Progress Index 2015. According to this index, I could easily grasp what France is troubling. First of all, France's rank is 21st, worst among G7 countries, after the US, 16th. Then I can see why. France's opportunity points are only 72.46 (US 82.18), relatively lower than her peers. I can see other problems, such as tolerance and inclusion 62.01(US 74.46), access to advanced education 66.34(US 89.47), ecosystem sustainability 54.55( US 51.63) and health and welfare 75.36 (US 68.66) because of higher obesity rate and higher suicide rate.
Without philosophical argument, which France is good at, French Malaise can be explained by the Social Progressive Index 2015 as US malaise can be explained well by the same index.
Without philosophical argument, which France is good at, French Malaise can be explained by the Social Progressive Index 2015 as US malaise can be explained well by the same index.
23
That today's French “melancholy”has its roots back in the early High Middle Ages is ridiculous!
After WW2, and with the help of the Mashall Plan, France was moving to the pinnacle of post-war euphoria. Sure, the student riots of the 1960s was a backlash of that era against big business and capitalism, but as the French enjoyed its liberalism and economic comforts, it forgot its own sense of purpose. Couples stopped having children, and France's birthrate became the first to fall below replacement level. Concurrently, it hoped to see migrants from it's former African colonies adopt the liberal culture and values of late 20th C. France.
Today, there are entire parts of France where no multi-generational French person will go, for fear of sticking out like a foreigner in his own land. In a decade or so from today, a majority of kindergarteners will be Muslim and a majority of French adults will be lining up in queues for retirement pensions.
This population dynamic is the primary reason for today's “Mélancolie Française.” I doubt any French person today pines for the Roman Empire or Middle Ages. They simply want to set the clock back to when Jackie Bouvier Kennedy was setting fashion trends for the rest of the world.
After WW2, and with the help of the Mashall Plan, France was moving to the pinnacle of post-war euphoria. Sure, the student riots of the 1960s was a backlash of that era against big business and capitalism, but as the French enjoyed its liberalism and economic comforts, it forgot its own sense of purpose. Couples stopped having children, and France's birthrate became the first to fall below replacement level. Concurrently, it hoped to see migrants from it's former African colonies adopt the liberal culture and values of late 20th C. France.
Today, there are entire parts of France where no multi-generational French person will go, for fear of sticking out like a foreigner in his own land. In a decade or so from today, a majority of kindergarteners will be Muslim and a majority of French adults will be lining up in queues for retirement pensions.
This population dynamic is the primary reason for today's “Mélancolie Française.” I doubt any French person today pines for the Roman Empire or Middle Ages. They simply want to set the clock back to when Jackie Bouvier Kennedy was setting fashion trends for the rest of the world.
31
Bill, I don't think the idea is ridiculous. To each culture, its logic and soul; I suppose, its essence. Malaise is essential Aux Francais and this argument helps explain that fact for me.
Oh please.. not this silly tripe again: "there are entire parts of France where no multi-generational French person will go"! Hadn't you heard, Fox "News" apologized.
I wonder if you have ever been to New York City much less France? Sadly, most large cities have some rough areas - try East New York, the South Bronx or Bed Stuy...
I lived in France for a number of years and never encountered a "no go" zone. Nor was I ever in an area where I felt as out of place as I did the time I needed to go to Bed Stuy in the 80's - I was very grateful to the friend who drove me there and back.
I wonder if you have ever been to New York City much less France? Sadly, most large cities have some rough areas - try East New York, the South Bronx or Bed Stuy...
I lived in France for a number of years and never encountered a "no go" zone. Nor was I ever in an area where I felt as out of place as I did the time I needed to go to Bed Stuy in the 80's - I was very grateful to the friend who drove me there and back.
Americans are not as conflicted as the French, neither are they remotely as educated, talented and imaginative.
What disappoints me overall, is that with such learned men as Houellebecq and Zemmour, they can't arrive at the truth underneath the fear-based hyperbole: it's really just a lot of yada-yada. Progress in France is nearly impossible because debating over principles rather than taking definitive continuous actions, has weakened them more than all the wars and conflicts put together.
What disappoints me overall, is that with such learned men as Houellebecq and Zemmour, they can't arrive at the truth underneath the fear-based hyperbole: it's really just a lot of yada-yada. Progress in France is nearly impossible because debating over principles rather than taking definitive continuous actions, has weakened them more than all the wars and conflicts put together.
23
Where is your evidence that Americans are not "remotely as educated, talented and imaginative" as French people? I don't think there is any. On the contrary, a very disproportionately large share of all the innovation and progress in the world in recent decades has come from America.
2
The idea that a disliked 5% minority can force the 95% to become observant of relgion again, and that of a demanding alien religion that defies their lifestyle, is simply absurd. It isn't in the realm of reality.
France has a problem with its place in the world. It was once by a large margin the biggest population in Europe and the biggest economy, with the biggest army. It dominated by raw power. It made claims to be civilization itself. That is now gone, all of it.
With France's power went most outsider respect for France's claim to define civilization. Myself, I think they have much to teach, but I'm in a minority in that.
American power and Chinese growth are competing for respect elsewhere, not France's idea of a civilized life. In particular, both America and China disregard France's ideas.
That loss of respect from and influence on others is what seems to bother them most. They have certainly not given in to American worship of the raw power of size nor Chinese worship of long term growth. They rather seem to reject both, and to feel the loss of respect and influence all the more because they feel so alone in rejecting that.
But none of it has any slightest relationship to possible conversion of France to observant radical Islam.
France has a problem with its place in the world. It was once by a large margin the biggest population in Europe and the biggest economy, with the biggest army. It dominated by raw power. It made claims to be civilization itself. That is now gone, all of it.
With France's power went most outsider respect for France's claim to define civilization. Myself, I think they have much to teach, but I'm in a minority in that.
American power and Chinese growth are competing for respect elsewhere, not France's idea of a civilized life. In particular, both America and China disregard France's ideas.
That loss of respect from and influence on others is what seems to bother them most. They have certainly not given in to American worship of the raw power of size nor Chinese worship of long term growth. They rather seem to reject both, and to feel the loss of respect and influence all the more because they feel so alone in rejecting that.
But none of it has any slightest relationship to possible conversion of France to observant radical Islam.
68
I hope that you are correct Mr. Thomason. France is and ideal place for me. I love the sophistication of the country. Paris is still stunning, charming and a joy to visit. The south of France still ranks as the most sophisticated spots in the world. Muslims in France a hic cup in Frances future. Viv La Francise.
11
You are mistaking a few current statistics for the greater view of the future. In the first place, in France, Britain, and Germany, the Muslim population is already at 5% and climbing, forming those countries' largest minority. Future demographics put Europe's Muslim population in 50 years at 10%, and in places like Britain, they will be well over that number. That translates into tens of millions of people. Those countries' politicians will suddenly shift policies in order to pander to the largest groups for their votes - there is one avenue of demographic power.
I suggest you open a history book and look what happened to the Native peoples of the US when that little trickle of Europeans one day turned into a flood - one day the numbers were running the other way, and whose culture obliterated whose?
I suggest you open a history book and look what happened to the Native peoples of the US when that little trickle of Europeans one day turned into a flood - one day the numbers were running the other way, and whose culture obliterated whose?
17
Sir, look at the Russian Revolution.
Bolsheviks were a small minority even within the soviets, nevertheless they were able to seize the power being ruthless and uncompromising.
You have to consider that the majority of the population is idling in apathy and if forced conversion looks not in the realm of reality, slow one through lower taxation and social incentives is not that impossible.
Bolsheviks were a small minority even within the soviets, nevertheless they were able to seize the power being ruthless and uncompromising.
You have to consider that the majority of the population is idling in apathy and if forced conversion looks not in the realm of reality, slow one through lower taxation and social incentives is not that impossible.
2
There's hope yet for the great French soul,
To heal its wounds, make itself whole,
Islamists can't dim
French cultural vim,
France yet will play the leading role!
To heal its wounds, make itself whole,
Islamists can't dim
French cultural vim,
France yet will play the leading role!
41
Cute, but. Leadership in the West comes from Anglo-Saxon and Germanic led Northern Europe. I admit that the USA & Britian are in a funk right now. Hopefully both will pull out.
All Western European countries have a Muslim problem that needs attention with supression as an option. The USA has both a religous fanatic problem with abortion issues and a great desire to punish the poor. We also have political domination of the country by big Money, which degrades our politics and the Envioronment--even worse. Of course, resentment/dislike of our half Black President by both groups above adds to our problems.
All Western European countries have a Muslim problem that needs attention with supression as an option. The USA has both a religous fanatic problem with abortion issues and a great desire to punish the poor. We also have political domination of the country by big Money, which degrades our politics and the Envioronment--even worse. Of course, resentment/dislike of our half Black President by both groups above adds to our problems.