Sorry to my employer, but sleep comes first. Anything related to my health will come before work.
1
I work ten to eleven hours a day. Me and my wife are comfortable but not rich. When I get home I have a few beers and read or watch TV. If I only get 6 hours sleep, it is because I refuse to give a whole day of my life to a company.
3
I can understand the apparent paradox that both upper and lower income workers would get less than average amounts of sleep. In the healthcare facility I work for, I have observed that upper management staff work very long hours. Many work through the nighttime hours some days to finish reports or presentations, or on other days show up at their offices in the wee hours of the morning. At the same time many of the staff at the lower end of the pay scale work multiple jobs to support their families. It often seems that adequate sleep is the province of those of us in the middle of the pay scale.
3
Unless you have a guaranteed job (i.e. govt or public ed) you must devote time to training yourself for the next phase for no pay. That takes up a lot of time
2
I'll be interested when they get a new study based on data from a fitness tracker like FitBit. My FitBit tells me not only how long I sleep, but also how restless that sleep is. It wouldn't be hard to put age/income data to that.
1
As I grow older I don't need to sleep as many h ours. I also earn more money.
So my sleep is correlated to my income. But there is no cause and effect relationship.
So my sleep is correlated to my income. But there is no cause and effect relationship.
2
We have our priorities wrong. We should prioritize sleep and health over "productivity". How much more "stuff" do we need, how much more money? Our use of resources for producing" stuff" is unsustainable. Look around you at the waste!
Give a minimum income to all, and let each human being enjoy his or her chronotype and set his or her own pace. Sure, lots of folks will be "unproductive" when judged by the more, more, more consumer society...but that's just what the earth and humans need to survive in the long term..
Give a minimum income to all, and let each human being enjoy his or her chronotype and set his or her own pace. Sure, lots of folks will be "unproductive" when judged by the more, more, more consumer society...but that's just what the earth and humans need to survive in the long term..
8
When offered more responsibilities at work, I presented to my boss this argument: The more hours I work, the more I have to outsource things like cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc. Therefore, I need to make more money so I can afford those things. the more of my life I can outsource, the more I can work.
The argument worked. I got a hefty pay raise with my additional duties. The one thing that remained a problem --actually intensified as a problem-- was that I wasn't getting enough sleep. The nature of my job meant that I was on-call 24/7 as it was; with the increased responsibility, I also lost more sleep to sheer worry. It turns out I couldn't outsource sleep!
I recently left that job. I'm currently unemployed, but less worried than when I had a stable income. As a result my sleep cycle has returned to "normal" (I like to stay up late), and I'm even starting to dream again. It's sad and ironic that we have to destroy ourselves to make a decent living. It is the very definition of unsustainable.
The argument worked. I got a hefty pay raise with my additional duties. The one thing that remained a problem --actually intensified as a problem-- was that I wasn't getting enough sleep. The nature of my job meant that I was on-call 24/7 as it was; with the increased responsibility, I also lost more sleep to sheer worry. It turns out I couldn't outsource sleep!
I recently left that job. I'm currently unemployed, but less worried than when I had a stable income. As a result my sleep cycle has returned to "normal" (I like to stay up late), and I'm even starting to dream again. It's sad and ironic that we have to destroy ourselves to make a decent living. It is the very definition of unsustainable.
17
Aside from the work itself, a major factor is the low quality of public transportation. Many hourly workers (of which I am one) rely on infrequent buses, transfers that leave them standing for long periods of wasted time, indirect routes that allow the taxpayers to scrimp on wages for drivers and maintenance for more vehicles. This affects not only low-wage workers, but also people weaving life together by traveling among service providers and government offices. That the children of these parents have fewer hours of quality time -- slow-cooked meals and read-aloud stories -- goes without saying.
23
People with higher incomes may be more likely to worry about work issues at night when they should be sleeping. Those with lower incomes may have jobs with less planning and responsibility.
4
People with lower incomes may be more likely to worry about how they are going to pay their bills at night when they should be sleeping.
13
People at any age should structure their lives so that they can live within their means, so then there is no "lost sleep" about how to pay their bills.
Lost sleep about bills probably cuts across all income ranges due to poor money management education and poor career planning skills.
I have had punch-in punch-out jobs as a teenager and while in college (grocery store, other retail) where there was NO WORK THOUGHT required at work OR off the job. I slept fine.
I have also had professional salaried jobs as an adult where solving business problems WOULD crowd my thoughts during non-work hours.
Except for odd times where there was a crisis, I slept well because I was making SO MUCH MONEY that I could sleep in and flex my time if I needed to after the crisis was solved.
Either way, I always got the job done that I was being paid for. is this difficult?
Lost sleep about bills probably cuts across all income ranges due to poor money management education and poor career planning skills.
I have had punch-in punch-out jobs as a teenager and while in college (grocery store, other retail) where there was NO WORK THOUGHT required at work OR off the job. I slept fine.
I have also had professional salaried jobs as an adult where solving business problems WOULD crowd my thoughts during non-work hours.
Except for odd times where there was a crisis, I slept well because I was making SO MUCH MONEY that I could sleep in and flex my time if I needed to after the crisis was solved.
Either way, I always got the job done that I was being paid for. is this difficult?
2
One thing I learned in my career, we are all replaceable at our jobs. Regardless of how dedicated and loyal we are.
27
Exactly. So let's start the process for moving towards a more European model of 4 weeks vacation per year and take back our mental health from the Corporations that have seized it.
8
We need to incorporate the Siesta at every workplace. After you eat lunch you should kick off your shoes, put on your sleep mask, and stretch out for a good 45 minutes or so. Grab some snooze! When you wake up you'll be groggy for a few minutes but then the energy you gained will kick in and you'll surge through the rest of the day with high motivation!
8
Causation or correlation?
Might an individual's need for fewer hours of sleep lead to more time studying (as a student) leading to higher grades and more opportunities, or for more time at the office to impress the higher ups?
Might an individual's need for fewer hours of sleep lead to more time studying (as a student) leading to higher grades and more opportunities, or for more time at the office to impress the higher ups?
6
This is a good point. We still have a corporate culture that emphasizes being at your desk over results. Now, if you can do both, great. But, if the expectation is that to make the highest salaries you have to put in 60+ hours/week at the office, then lots of people are basically doomed from the outset regardless of how talented they are.
4
I think that parents of multiple children should most certainly be a part of any discussion of who is not getting a healthy amount of sleep.
5
A few years ago I spent the summer in Italy. A common feature in the Italian culture is a midday siesta. At first I was annoyed, because most businesses closed, which was inconvenient. But after a few days, I began to enjoy the midday pause and my body started to adjust. I had more energy and less stress. I can see how a midday siesta improves the overall quality of one's life. The American culture would never allow a midday break, but its such a healthy way of living! I would also argue that in many ways it increases productivity.
12
Two words: Thomas Edison.
2
Italy is actually a fairly creative and productive place. Their GNP is close to that of UK's for years; and with a slightly lower population. At one point they were ahead,
2
At least people in these countries are thinner, happy and mentally stable, unlike many Americans who have severe personality disorders. If you only knew how stressed out and weird Americans come across when abroad. Productivity is not a reason to live, and working like a dog so that someone else can benefit (CEO's come to mind) is not my idea of a 'productive' life. Que viva la siesta!
2
"That the rich sleep less is the dominant theory" - the problem with this statement is that it is studying the wrong thing - the essence of being "rich". Being rich means having assets, but all too often, we use it to describe a type of person, when it's not. A CEO is very different from a doctor. One works 60-80 hour weeks and the other, once he reaches 50 or so, takes multiple afternoons off to play golf. Someone with a special talent that earns a great deal is very different than a businessman whose high salary comes from sales. A rich person on the East Coast might be a lawyer, doctor or banker, but on the West Coast, it's often a Stanford grad who just founded a startup in Silicon Valley.
We try to describe them all as if they are of the same ilk, because they are all "rich", but they have very different personality types, and, not surprisingly, they're going to have different views on sleep.
We try to describe them all as if they are of the same ilk, because they are all "rich", but they have very different personality types, and, not surprisingly, they're going to have different views on sleep.
6
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............
3
Technically speaking a "luxury good" is a good that is consumed in greater amounts as income goes up. You are exactly wrong to say that this data shows sleep is a luxury good. What we are actually seeing is that sleep is an "inferior good"...a good that is consumed less at incomes rise.
2
A good that is consumed more as income rises is called a normal good. Luxury goods are normal, but that is not their primary defining characteristic, which is that they only get consumed when all basic needs are being met. That is, something that is "nice to have", but not "must have".
2
Sleep is a basic necessity like food and shelter. If you don't get enough sleep you're likely to fall asleep while doing something important, like driving a car.
A luxury is something you can live without.
A luxury is something you can live without.
2
This article doesn't say anything about sleeping conditions. Often the poor sleep on lumpy mattresses or on a sofa or the floor with flat pillows or no pillows. The poor may have inadequate heating and cooling. They may be cold in winter and hot in summer These things contribute to poor quality sleep and maybe waking up with a back ache. It's not just how many hours you get.
16
Growing up poor in New York City I agree with your comment. An additional piece is that I grew up with noise. I live on the first floor across the street from a noisy bar. My upstairs neighbors made noise at all hours of the night, and I grew up like this until I moved out. For two decades after that, my sleep greatly suffered. I am a light sleeper because I think I developed an over sensitivity to noisy as a result of my upbringing.
6
A study like this is a perfect symptom of the disease that is our current socioeconomic system.
As other commenters have already pointed out, the reason why rich people sleep more is that rich people do not have to labor as much to make a living. The reason why the "dominant study" assumed that rich people would sleep less, is that framers of this study are living about 40 years in the past, when our system actually aligned hard work and merit with remuneration.
Labor is no longer a force in capital accumulation. Dormant capital--sleeping, inactive, interest-bearing capital--is. What a despicable coincidence.
As other commenters have already pointed out, the reason why rich people sleep more is that rich people do not have to labor as much to make a living. The reason why the "dominant study" assumed that rich people would sleep less, is that framers of this study are living about 40 years in the past, when our system actually aligned hard work and merit with remuneration.
Labor is no longer a force in capital accumulation. Dormant capital--sleeping, inactive, interest-bearing capital--is. What a despicable coincidence.
17
The disagreement between the 2 surveys interesting in that it suggests that either low income people believe they are working more and sleeping less then they actually are or that high income people, when asked to account for every minute of their day, are over-estimating the time they dedicated to each aspect. The latter is probably more accurate. When asked to account for every moment when you do more things in your day you may say assume each task took a minimum time when in reality they may have been done in parallel or much quicker than assumed. These rote tasks that are done without forethought are often hard to remember and difficult to assign a post-hoc time expenditure to.
3
There's another fascinating and related insight from the Time Use Survey. This is the first generation of wealthy people in America who spend less time on leisure than the poor. Historically, the rich would work few hours and spend most of their time on leisure activities - leisure was a badge of honor. Since 1965, that trend has started to reverse, and now there are increasing social and economic pressures for the wealthy to work. The economic pressures are partially driven by income inequality - working extra hours to be at the top of one's profession pays off more. The social pressures are similar, with most people eating dinner at their desks at top consulting firms, law firms, and banks.
The data suggests that poor people tend to sleep more and spend more time on leisure activities. I can personally attest to this as a professional who went back to University - I'm now sleeping much longer and have the leisure time to post comments on NYT.com.
As to whether it's good or bad - on one hand, I'm sure that having the wealthy work more, who are particularly concentrated in knowledge based industries, has had a disproportionately positive impact on GDP. However, on the individual level, it's depressing (and unhealthy) to consistently work >60 hours a week.
The data suggests that poor people tend to sleep more and spend more time on leisure activities. I can personally attest to this as a professional who went back to University - I'm now sleeping much longer and have the leisure time to post comments on NYT.com.
As to whether it's good or bad - on one hand, I'm sure that having the wealthy work more, who are particularly concentrated in knowledge based industries, has had a disproportionately positive impact on GDP. However, on the individual level, it's depressing (and unhealthy) to consistently work >60 hours a week.
5
Like every thing in life we must strike a balance including rest, relaxation and work.
2
Let's make a deal. I'll continue to work until 2 a.m. so I can turn over half of my six-figure income to people who make do nicely without working on $45,000 a year in tax-free government benefits. But maybe in exchange the government can set up a program to send them over to my house to help out during the day with cooking, cleaning and childcare? If Obama is fixated in spreading the wealth, how about also spreading the leisure?
5
Suggestion: Stop working at your six-figure job and start living off all those wonderful government benefits you think are out there if you believe that people living on them have it oh, so much better than you do. See, nothing difficult about getting more leisure if that's what you really want.
22
I would LOVE to get $45,000 a year in tax-free government benefits!! Could you please tell me where to go sign up?
I think it stinks when the government takes a lot of money out of people's pockets via taxes but nothing in our country is for free. Social programs cost money. Police on the streets costs money. Infrastructure repairs cost money. It is unfortunate you're bitter about turning over half of your income to lowlifes who do not want to work but we know you're just exaggerating. Income is not the only thing our government can tax to bring in revenue. There are rich people who pay spit in taxes because the bulk of their wealth comes from investments, property, and other items that are not taxed the way income is taxed. The wealthy are pretty good at hiding stuff, too. Make the wealthy pay their fair share to society and it will leave most of your money and mine in our pockets.
I think it stinks when the government takes a lot of money out of people's pockets via taxes but nothing in our country is for free. Social programs cost money. Police on the streets costs money. Infrastructure repairs cost money. It is unfortunate you're bitter about turning over half of your income to lowlifes who do not want to work but we know you're just exaggerating. Income is not the only thing our government can tax to bring in revenue. There are rich people who pay spit in taxes because the bulk of their wealth comes from investments, property, and other items that are not taxed the way income is taxed. The wealthy are pretty good at hiding stuff, too. Make the wealthy pay their fair share to society and it will leave most of your money and mine in our pockets.
11
Like you would let them in your house.
3
I have not read the studies, but I would be reluctant to talk about associations with income before understanding and potentially controlling for age, sex, height, weight, time of year, latitude, family composition, and sleep setting. After that, income versus wealth is probably relevant. And then there are all the potential measurement issues. I would be inclined to change both studies are correct to both studies are incorrect.
2
Incorrect would suggest that there is something wrong with the methodology (if they didn't control for age, etc., then there is probably something wrong, but that doesn't seem to be the case). They measure slightly different versions of the same question, so they can be both correct and different at the same time. The article could be better in clarifying the difference between the results.
It sounds as though the researchers need to disaggregate their data for lower income subjects to distinguish between those unemployed and employed in order to get a more accurate sense of sleep time. This is hinted at in the article, e.g., the "working poor" may work multiple jobs resulting in less sleep than the overall average for lower income participants.
2
I'm puzzled that no one has asked the opposite question - do people who need less sleep earn more? There is substantial research that healthier people earn more than less healthy people (proxied by nutritional status, stature, etc. - see work by T.P.Schultz & D. Thomas). So if healthier people need less sleep on average and earn more on average, that could account for a large part of the difference you're observing.
8
Did the researchers factor in how many jobs it takes to make $98,000 a year? For some of us, it takes five jobs. Why do we have five jobs, because only one of them is a full-time job with benefits, especially health care, but the other four are freelance, seasonal, and commission work with unpredictable incomes. So you come home from one job at an office and then hole up in the spare bedroom office for another 8-hour shift. At least that's how it works post-recession in my household. But when we sleep, it takes four separate iPhone alarm settings to rouse us.
13
Not enough sleep, for money's sake, is deleterious to one's health; and one does not function as well when tired, no matter what anecdotal experience says, as many can attest (including yours truly, a retired surgeon). An interesting tidbit comes from the Dalai Lama; when asked what surprised him most about humanity, he said: "Man", because 'he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then, he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived'.
36
It is easy for me to understand the correlation between income and sleep. I have worked many minimum wage and "blue collar" jobs; I am now a practicing lawyer. Low income jobs are left at the workplace. Higher income work is associated with greater responsibility, which often stays on one's mind long after the conventional work day ends.
21
Someone made the point above that with less financial stability comes greater worries - so don't count on it that shift workers are sleeping sounder and longer than those who willingly sacrifice life for money.
Of course, MR. Basner, who has no idea what it takes for most women to groom themselves for work, would suggest spending less time doing so. And suggesting living closer to work? C'mon. Everyone would prefer that, sleep deprived or otherwise. It's simply impractical advice.
33
I totally agree with you regarding living closer to one's workplace being impractical. Many people have commute times of 1-2-3+ hours and that is one way! I used to spend 2 hours a day commuting round trip and considered myself lucky compared to other people. Now I live much closer to work and consider myself blessed.
Only a man would suggest taking less time grooming in the morning. We should all just show up to work in jeans and sweatshirts and ski caps to hide our bed hair. That would save oodles of time!
Only a man would suggest taking less time grooming in the morning. We should all just show up to work in jeans and sweatshirts and ski caps to hide our bed hair. That would save oodles of time!
2
It's not impractical to tell people to sacrifice needless grooming for a little more sleep. Sleep has always been essential to me so I planned my routine around it. How long do women really need to groom? I could be out the door every morning in less than an hour. The routine included a couple of cups of coffee, a bowl of oatmeal, a shower (I have longish hair that takes a while to dry), light makeup and dressing in a professional outfit. Oh and getting kids ready too. Organize a bit the night before and make sure you take just a quick shower. Women don't need to spend an hour on makeup and hair.
1
Everyone can do more about less grooming. Myself--I do not shave, never wear makeup (except for theater), wear the same clean clothes every day.
Fashion, "style," "beauty" are all conspiracies to keep us running in the rat race.
Jump off that wheel, you will feel so much better, if theoretically "poorer!"
Fashion, "style," "beauty" are all conspiracies to keep us running in the rat race.
Jump off that wheel, you will feel so much better, if theoretically "poorer!"
2
A 15 dollar white noise machine made by Home Medic (available at many large pharmacies) lets me sleep each night to the sound of a babbling brook both at home and on every trip away from home.
Also great are eyemasks, earplugs and a refusal to look at the clock in the middle of the night.
Also great are eyemasks, earplugs and a refusal to look at the clock in the middle of the night.
3
A little lavender spritz on the pillow is also good.
1
If a person wears earplugs how are they going to hear their alarm clock?
You are 100% correct about the sleep mask. I use one on the weekends when I want to sleep in and the sun rises too early for my taste. I wake up refreshed and ready to tackle the rest of the day. I say the rest of the day because the mask sometimes makes me sleep until noon!
You are 100% correct about the sleep mask. I use one on the weekends when I want to sleep in and the sun rises too early for my taste. I wake up refreshed and ready to tackle the rest of the day. I say the rest of the day because the mask sometimes makes me sleep until noon!
1
I have a new alarm clock which vibrates. I put it on the bed frame, and it works! I also have a sound machine. The crows outside my bedroom window are just as loud as those roosters in Kauai! But the crows are smarter - when you yell at them to shut up, they fly away to the next tree. I don't think anyone can shut up a rooster.
The fact of the matter is successful people just get more out of their day. They work harder, exercise more, have active social lives. Little time is wasted watching tv. Not surprisingly, when you are active throughout the day, you are also ready for bed when the time comes. You'll sleep deeper and have higher quality sleep, which more than makes up for the quantity.
10
This is good point for further study and not emphasized enough inn the article. Too much time watching TV is the number one reason for me to not get enough sleep in any given day. Next reason is not getting an adequate amount of vigorous exercise in any given day. Both are important variables that do not seem to be accounted for adequately in the studies cited.
Here's proof that there's an app for everything: I've got one on my iPhone that tracks the quantity and quality of my sleep and keeps the numbers over time. I have been astonished to discover that absent work deadlines or other pressure I sleep almost the same amount of time every night give or take 15 minutes. I have not been at all surprised to learn that when I do have pressing things going on at work, home or both my sleep efficiency drops 20% or more. I used to have sleep apnea, and have spent a few nights wired up like the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center to get detailed printouts and numbers only my doctor could understand. The app is not going to be nearly as accurate, but all I have to do is sleep with a phone nearby, and the numbers are good enough for me. I recommend it.
4
Take look at these high achievers with their high incomes and intense lifestyles, extending to what 'time off' they have. The ethos in America has long been 'work hard, play hard'. Sometime the result of all this 'hard' living is to die hard; we've been seeing some examples of this, not only in show business but in the business world as well, with those well-publicised occasional drug overdoses and suicides. Much more often the effect seems to be 'hard' greed, to the point of making decisions that are hardly good for the economy and society in general in the long run. (Think of outsourcing, for example.)
The upshot? They don't snooze; the rest of us lose. As the old saying goes, it's a hell of a way to run a railroad. Unless your ideal is Casey Jones. The Grateful Dead version.
The upshot? They don't snooze; the rest of us lose. As the old saying goes, it's a hell of a way to run a railroad. Unless your ideal is Casey Jones. The Grateful Dead version.
10
Zzzzzz. Answer to ALL - If you are well off, there is much less terror invading your sleep than those who live in fear of losing their home and such. I think rich people think they have worries, or large issues that keep them thinking into their sleep, but in reality being homeless trumps their job related restlessness.
So when someone retires that has achieved a "level of success," does their retired self lose that flatulating, inflated ego? More of the "let them eat cake" scenario gripping this nation, I call it the great disconnect; I got mine, why the hell can't you get yours?
The answer is if it continues, someone may just come take yours.
So when someone retires that has achieved a "level of success," does their retired self lose that flatulating, inflated ego? More of the "let them eat cake" scenario gripping this nation, I call it the great disconnect; I got mine, why the hell can't you get yours?
The answer is if it continues, someone may just come take yours.
20
"In the time-use survey data, people have to account for every minute of the previous day — meaning memory is fresh and everything has to add up. But in the N.H.I.S. survey, people just had to estimate an average, a method that is less likely to give an accurate result, several sleep experts said."
Possible alternative explanation: When they have to account specifically for time used the previous day, people "round up" time spent on the activities they deem prestigious or important, such as work. Then to make the total come out to the right number, they adjust their sleep time downward. Under this scenario, an estimate focusing specifically on sleep might yield a broadly MORE accurate value.
Possible alternative explanation: When they have to account specifically for time used the previous day, people "round up" time spent on the activities they deem prestigious or important, such as work. Then to make the total come out to the right number, they adjust their sleep time downward. Under this scenario, an estimate focusing specifically on sleep might yield a broadly MORE accurate value.
7
I agree. In my experience (yes, I know it's a sample size of one), those who are affluent, especially white males, brag about how little sleep they get (or need) as a badge of honor. It's almost a macho thing.
1
Human beeings are strange, "they work in order to get a lot of money using their health, then they use this money to treat their health " We must know that we are not machines, we all need a rest to restore our energies . Think!
7
This is the mentality that has overtaken our society - much akin to the Japanese ethic. The more your work, the longer you work, the more you sacrifice to the alter of the corporation, the more you're perceived as "dedicated" - though you'll be cast aside with increasing probability for every year over 50. Vacations are short and fine to take, so long as you're always available and nothing "slips" (so in your week off, you might only work 3-4 hours a day). It's not uncommon to have a day that starts at 6:30 breakfast meeting, meetings all day (rarely involving moving your body - just sit and stress), keep up with your email, then after 12 or 13 hours, carry on for a dinner meeting, get back to the hotel (to continue "catching up" on work you missed during the day), then start all over again the next day. You don't want to do this? There are plenty of people who will take your job.
And no, not in the 1% or anywhere near it.
And no, not in the 1% or anywhere near it.
86
and when someone who may incidentally sleep less does displace one, that person is to go home, blame him/herself and implode, all part of the accepted American dreck social contract.
4
Maybe in NYC. And a few other places (LA, SF, DC). Part of work life balance includes the choice of where to live and work, and I have personally found great variance in the type of work lives people have, based on where they choose to base themselves.
I remember when I worked in the software industry, we were "allowed" to take our annual two-week vacation.
However, neither our work load nor deadlines changed, meaning that we had to work that much harder before and after our vacations. (I worked many 80-hour weeks during those periods.) Therefore, our so-called vacations were filled with anxiety and dread about whether we could still meet our work responsibilities.
One time years ago, I went abroad for 10 days, for an important family event. When I returned to work, I ended up missing my deadline and got hell from my manager. I still have no regrets. I strengthened connections with my extended family and also got to Paris, where I could practice my nearly fluent French.
American society is sick in that it puts making money ahead of having time for family and for health-inducing activities (e.g., exercise, adequate sleep). As they say: "The French work to live, while Americans live to work."
However, neither our work load nor deadlines changed, meaning that we had to work that much harder before and after our vacations. (I worked many 80-hour weeks during those periods.) Therefore, our so-called vacations were filled with anxiety and dread about whether we could still meet our work responsibilities.
One time years ago, I went abroad for 10 days, for an important family event. When I returned to work, I ended up missing my deadline and got hell from my manager. I still have no regrets. I strengthened connections with my extended family and also got to Paris, where I could practice my nearly fluent French.
American society is sick in that it puts making money ahead of having time for family and for health-inducing activities (e.g., exercise, adequate sleep). As they say: "The French work to live, while Americans live to work."
5
A more precise study of the relationship between hours of sleep and wealth would need to control for age. People trades off current hours of sleep for future wage increases all the time, especially among the salaried class who are not paid for extra hours of work but are rewarded for an enhanced chance for promotion.
I would have like to see the author explore in greater detail the gender difference in the trade off between work hours and other hours . When men work longer hours, they cut back on other non-work activities (doing house work? exercise? watching TV?) For women, when they work longer hours, they are much more likely to cut back on hours of sleep. Is it the case what women spent time during their non-work/non-sleep hours have fewer substitutes ( child care, house work, etc. etc.) or are they just too busy to be "all they can be" that they just cut back sleep in an attempt to work more hours.
I would have like to see the author explore in greater detail the gender difference in the trade off between work hours and other hours . When men work longer hours, they cut back on other non-work activities (doing house work? exercise? watching TV?) For women, when they work longer hours, they are much more likely to cut back on hours of sleep. Is it the case what women spent time during their non-work/non-sleep hours have fewer substitutes ( child care, house work, etc. etc.) or are they just too busy to be "all they can be" that they just cut back sleep in an attempt to work more hours.
6
This is just America. Sleep less, work more, take sleeping pills, suffer from endless angst about nothing, anxiety about everything, live off meds and push, push, push to breaking point. Americans simply don't know the art of chilling and doing nothing. The rich feel like major failures if they sleep and the poor have to work many jobs just to survive. The neither here nor there sleep to get away from the realities they have to face when they are awake. The richest country on Earth--go figure.
43
Actually, the U.S. isn't the richest country in the world and hasn't been for some time.
1
I suspect the guy in the corner office has a better opportunity to catch a quick nap from time to time than the fellow in the mail room.
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No, the guy in the corner office received 307 emails per day.
"I'll sleep when I'm dead."
Warren Zevon
Warren Zevon
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Warren Zevon died at the age of 50, giving him plenty of time to catch up on his sleep...
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While TV watching is certainly a contributor, perhaps attention should be turned to the one of the biggest sleep robbers of them all: being online.
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I would rather sleep than work. And money isn't the only way to measure wealth.
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Dr. Hammersmith thinks the rich sleep less because they feel their time is more valuable.? That sounds rather elitist. A lot of poor people are working long hours and 6 to 7 days a week just to make ends meet. I am sure their time is just as valuable as ours.
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Both the author of this piece and the author of the study use the word "theory" in the everyday sense, as opposed to the scientific sense. This usage contributes to the "just a theory" argument of creationists and other science-deniers. I wish writers would consider using the word "hypothesis" instead.
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Once, on a trip to NYC, I took the A train up toward the Bronx, and, to my surprise, in the city that never sleeps, looked up to find everyone else in my car... asleep.
I see this as a fault of our infinitely go-at-em economy, this "city that never sleeps" pride (that the rest of the first world now emulates) that unfortunately costs people themselves their sleep.
In Germany (strongest economy in Europe), absolutely nothing happens on a Sunday (although they do have random Sundays throughout the year when stores will open for a half-day). Maybe we should think about doing the same: for one day a week, just give it a rest.
I see this as a fault of our infinitely go-at-em economy, this "city that never sleeps" pride (that the rest of the first world now emulates) that unfortunately costs people themselves their sleep.
In Germany (strongest economy in Europe), absolutely nothing happens on a Sunday (although they do have random Sundays throughout the year when stores will open for a half-day). Maybe we should think about doing the same: for one day a week, just give it a rest.
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My experience in LA and San Francisco is that it's very quiet before 10 am on Sunday.
That's why the Jewish Sabbath is so wonderful for those who observe it.
We do no work or creative activity during that time. People may go to religious services, eat leisurely communal meals, visit family and friends, or just catch up on sleep.
The most strictly religious people do not turn electricity on and off during that period, which creates a sacred atmosphere. I personally use electricity, but I do turn off my computer during the Sabbath. It's a break from the frenetic pace of the internet and actually forces me to read a book!
However, when I worked in the software industry, I often had deadlines that required me to work on the Sabbath. Out of fear of losing my job I complied, but resented having to ruin my Sabbath. I feel that I was forced to worship money instead of God.
We do no work or creative activity during that time. People may go to religious services, eat leisurely communal meals, visit family and friends, or just catch up on sleep.
The most strictly religious people do not turn electricity on and off during that period, which creates a sacred atmosphere. I personally use electricity, but I do turn off my computer during the Sabbath. It's a break from the frenetic pace of the internet and actually forces me to read a book!
However, when I worked in the software industry, I often had deadlines that required me to work on the Sabbath. Out of fear of losing my job I complied, but resented having to ruin my Sabbath. I feel that I was forced to worship money instead of God.
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To sum up this and so many other issues of our day (race relations, religious issues, environment, finance, etc.) as a species, humans are terribly clever animals, but not either particularly wise or smart.
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A large number of nurses would be either unemployed or low income if they were unable to work with minimal sleep after midnight shifts, or worse, rotating shifts. Not only worthwhile, the only option short of unemployment.
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I was not familiar with the data about rich people's sleeping less. And probably due to an ascertainment bias on my part (I treat mostly lower middle class and poor patients), I actually thought my poorer patients slept less.
But not every correlation is linear and i think that the work-sleep relationship is one example.
One caveat: I am a sleep doctor and I am extremely skeptical of ALL studies of sleep duration in large groups of people. These are inevitably based on self-report of time in bed, which is not the same as sleep. And this goes for morbidity studies as well. A more useful measure would be sleepiness, if that were possible.
David Bresch MD
Saint Francis Medical Center Sleep Center
But not every correlation is linear and i think that the work-sleep relationship is one example.
One caveat: I am a sleep doctor and I am extremely skeptical of ALL studies of sleep duration in large groups of people. These are inevitably based on self-report of time in bed, which is not the same as sleep. And this goes for morbidity studies as well. A more useful measure would be sleepiness, if that were possible.
David Bresch MD
Saint Francis Medical Center Sleep Center
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Not much new here. What people say they do compared to what they actually do can illuminate the difference. Second was mentioned here already, quality of the sleep. Third, from my own background, sleep was a luxury in high school where I worked a 40 hour a week job after school to help out my household, when I served in the military and after I left the military to complete college and graduate school, working a 50 hour a week job to ensure I graduated without debt. It was in my mid 30's before I got off that treadmill.
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From your lead off sentence I thought you were talking about wealthy people, not those upper middle class high wage earners who are working really hard every day.
The truly wealthy don't have jobs. The barely-taxed income rolls in from investments and their share of other people's work and I'm sure they are sleeping really well.
The truly wealthy don't have jobs. The barely-taxed income rolls in from investments and their share of other people's work and I'm sure they are sleeping really well.
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work always wins! with the dire situation for jobs of any kind and the amount of people that must be employed to keep ends being met, there will never be a time when anyone can afford to say no to a poor employment situation. Commuting long distances takes time for the commuters able to ride mass transit and get themselves to work. I have seen the rush hour start 3 hours outside of LA for the folks too poor to live closer to their jobs. this will not fix itself anytime soon, especially without any effort!
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I am wondering if the real answer is watching more than one hour a day of TV is injurious to your economic and physical health.
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When I was younger (20s and 30s), I used to go without sleep often, sometimes for days in a row. I even was able to go for 5 nights in a row quite easily. I would catch up but I'd overall say I averaged about 4 hours/day. I find it hard to do that now as I'm older (43), but I still can go a night easily. In fact, my sleep schedule is to sleep 10-14 hours every two days. I probably average about six hours/day I'd think.
I simple am unable to sleep after being up for 18 hours---I need at least 30 to even feel tired and it takes me the two day period to really fall asleep without any medications, etc. I don't take anything that makes me stay awake, no coffee for example, which if I drank would keep me up longer!
I simple am unable to sleep after being up for 18 hours---I need at least 30 to even feel tired and it takes me the two day period to really fall asleep without any medications, etc. I don't take anything that makes me stay awake, no coffee for example, which if I drank would keep me up longer!
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Thought provoking article! This raises several interesting questions. For example, when the author says that higher income people sleep less than lower income people, does she mean higher income workers? How about the truly rich, like the 1%? Would Hamermesh's theory apply to them? It wouldn't cost them any income to sleep more.
Another question: do unemployed tend to sleep more because they're more likely to be depressed?
Another question: do unemployed tend to sleep more because they're more likely to be depressed?
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The 1%, literally, are those who earn have a household AGI of more than $400K are year. The most common professions are doctors, 16%, lawyers, 12%, and non-financial business managers, 10%.
So since the bulk of the 1% earn their income by work, they probably do sleep less.
And the general impression about guys like Warren Buffett and Mark Zuckerberg is that they are at their desks at 7:30 in the morning, and stay until 6 or 7 in the evening.
So since the bulk of the 1% earn their income by work, they probably do sleep less.
And the general impression about guys like Warren Buffett and Mark Zuckerberg is that they are at their desks at 7:30 in the morning, and stay until 6 or 7 in the evening.
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Speaking from personal experience - I was unemployed for seven months. I was so stressed I barely slept at all. Stressed about money. Stressed about finding a new job.
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I think Mitt Romney shows up at the golf course by 10 am, has lunch and cocktails until 3 pm, a nap until 5, cocktails, dinner, then after-dinner drinks until 9 pm, and is in bed by 9:30.
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Well,Gee! That certainly answered all of my questions!
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Quality of sleep also matters. If you are well off, chances are you can afford a bedroom in a quiet neighborhood or a soundproof apartment. You may have a nanny to care for your baby at night. Though you sleep less, you sleep soundly.
If you don't have the luxury of buying silence, even having enough time to sleep doesn't mean that you'll sleep well. A neighbor's careless footsteps in the upstairs apartment, a dog barking next door, or a door slamming outside intrudes all too often.
If you live in a crowded area, be considerate to your neighbors. Don't wake up a dozen babies by honking your horn. Train your dog not to bark. And please, tread lightly on the floor.
If you don't have the luxury of buying silence, even having enough time to sleep doesn't mean that you'll sleep well. A neighbor's careless footsteps in the upstairs apartment, a dog barking next door, or a door slamming outside intrudes all too often.
If you live in a crowded area, be considerate to your neighbors. Don't wake up a dozen babies by honking your horn. Train your dog not to bark. And please, tread lightly on the floor.
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I'm a light sleeper. In addition to your request for consideration from urban neighbors, I recommend
1. Earplugs.
2. White noise machine.
1. Earplugs.
2. White noise machine.
4
Inexpensive earplugs and sleep mask work wonders!
1
When I first 'downsized' to Newark, NJ, I was totally unprepared for the sheer disregard for the rights of others. Constant disruptions in sleep have become so commonplace, that I no longer expect to get a good night's rest anymore. What disturbs me most, is that we've become desensitized to our collective incivility, and the new normal is constant rudeness.
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Very sad, the picture of sleeping commuters on the LIRR. I see it all the time on the 1 train, too. Reminds me of the poor immigrants chronicled in Jacob Riis's "How the Other Half Lives," who left behind a simple note after gassing themselves to death in their squalid tenement. "We are tired."
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In my social and work circle the very high achievers/earners just seem to NEED less sleep. They are tireless and have tons of energy. Even when they have downtime they are still "working" in some way even if it's just socializing or searching the web. They are also often more physically active. I've noticed among wealthier associates, especially those who grew up with money, that activity ( sports, skiing, the newest exercise trends ) is a big part of their lifestyle. Obviously just anecdotal but very consistent in what I've seen and I pay attention to them - haven't figured out how to beat them or join them yet! But unfortunately I need all the sleep I can get.
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I am one of the high energy people but I am not as physically active as I used to be, and I grew up well off (my wife grew up poor) and we're doing quite well now. But I am mentally active all the time, from the moment I wake up to the time I go to sleep.
I used to be extremely sensitive to things like light and sound but now I am not. As I've gotten older, I started to require less sleep, and then I started drinking alcohol to sleep which "worked" but came with its own problems. Then I stopped (within three years, ages 33-36). Now I can sleep well if I've been up my usual cycle 36 hours but I no longer take hours to get to bed, and am not bothered by quite a fair amount of light and sound. I just meditate and can put myself into a relaxed state and if I'm tired I will fall asleep and wake up only when I am fully rested (which can be up to 18 hours, if I am catching up on days of not sleeping).
I used to be extremely sensitive to things like light and sound but now I am not. As I've gotten older, I started to require less sleep, and then I started drinking alcohol to sleep which "worked" but came with its own problems. Then I stopped (within three years, ages 33-36). Now I can sleep well if I've been up my usual cycle 36 hours but I no longer take hours to get to bed, and am not bothered by quite a fair amount of light and sound. I just meditate and can put myself into a relaxed state and if I'm tired I will fall asleep and wake up only when I am fully rested (which can be up to 18 hours, if I am catching up on days of not sleeping).
In the 1980s, the tirelessness of "high achievers/earners" was associated with cocaine abuse.
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They have the benefit of being able to pay others to take care of virtually all responsibilities or chores. They can obtain via food delivery by some low-wage worker, they can pay others to care for elderly relatives or young children, their spouses may "stay at home" and "run" the household etc. Further, they can afford expensive housing and if they choose, a relatively easy/close commute to work. Their money buys the free time to excercise.
If the affluent tech, banking and media folks I know had to actually care for a sick relative or cook for themselves, etc, they'd be exhausted like the rest of us.
If the affluent tech, banking and media folks I know had to actually care for a sick relative or cook for themselves, etc, they'd be exhausted like the rest of us.
1
Having lived a work heavy life and achieved a level of success, it is less of an issue of conscience work substitution for sleep but rather a compounding set of multiple issues that require constant attention and therefore invade sleep. The more work invades the poorer the sleep. It is not about going to bed later but rising earlier or waking repeatedly while mentally attending to issues
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