It is beyond dispute that most proponents of "conversion therapy" are misguided, at best. Nonetheless, human sexuality is a complicated area that deserves greater nuance. Most people agree that sexual attraction is fluid. It is perfectly healthy for a person's sexual interest to change during the span of a lifetime. Some people can also play a small role in adjusting their sexual interest. I do not believe that legitimate health care professionals should be pilloried if they choose to work with adults that seek therapy. Further, there should never be a stigma for men and women who seek treatment for childhood abuse. I fear that a well-intentioned desire to promote gay rights may unintentionally limit the types of therapy available.
2
As psychotherapists, it is our job to always help our patients "grow into their authentic selves." However, if the therapist has a pre-conceived notion of what that self is, it isn't going to be the patient's self the patient will be "helped" to grow into.
2
NARTH is not a medical or scientific organization. It is a tiny band of anti-gay zealots who lost their tax-exempt status due to their own incompetence. David Pickup is a 60-something year old man who still has not turned heterosexual, not found a wife or girlfriend, and he makes his money "healing" kids who are not sick by convincing them they are mentally ill when every actual medical association contradicts his quack non-therapy (the term "therapy" means to cure an illness), explaining sexual conversion therapy helps nobody and harms many.
2
What occurs in the doctor's office, an attorney's office, the confessional, and a psychotherapist's office is private and confidential. If a minor (or adult) is struggling with issues of sexuality, a competent therapist can help the patient sort through and come to terms with his/her issues.
I speak as a 75-year old gay man in a committed relationship. As a young man I struggled with my sexual feelings and felt conflicted with my Catholic religion. A therapist, incidentally a sectarian Jew, helped me come to terms with my depression. I married a woman and was fulfilled for a period of years. With maturity I pursued life as a gay man and am now fulfilled in that state.
"Conversion therapy" has a reek of quackery, but human sexuality is fluid. I don't believe that it is a proper subject for Presidential proclamations or new laws, whether at the state or federal level for the reasons I stated above.
I speak as a 75-year old gay man in a committed relationship. As a young man I struggled with my sexual feelings and felt conflicted with my Catholic religion. A therapist, incidentally a sectarian Jew, helped me come to terms with my depression. I married a woman and was fulfilled for a period of years. With maturity I pursued life as a gay man and am now fulfilled in that state.
"Conversion therapy" has a reek of quackery, but human sexuality is fluid. I don't believe that it is a proper subject for Presidential proclamations or new laws, whether at the state or federal level for the reasons I stated above.
4
The problem is that people are dying as a result of this quackery, and its often times people pressured or forced into these 'therapies'.
3
I am a transwoman and I also work with LGBTQIA youth. I would rather see Obama ban the practice at the Federal level. As the article states, California, New Jersey, the District of Colombia currently ban the practice of conversion therapy, and there are 18 states currently battling over this matter in their own legislatures. What will be the fate of those 18 states? What about the rest? Most importantly, what about the LGBTQIA youth in those states that continue to practice "conversion" or "reparative" therapy? What options do these youth have if their parent(s) /guardian(s) aren't accepting? It's not like the youth can just easily move to California or any other "supportive state." How will this end the epidemic of homeless LGBTQIA youth etc...? Unfortunately, until we see solutions for all LGBTQIA youth, anything less is just NOT good enough. Banning conversion therapy at the Federal level would be the difference between demonstrating leadership and paying lip service to a cause, and one with such a high costs.
5
The existence of 'conversion therapies' are insulting to gay people, because the assumption of such therapies assumes that there is something wrong with being gay. It should certainly not be legally permitted for people who have not yet reached the age of consent.
6
There is no controversy among any of the major psychiatric or psychological professional organization about any of the fundamental issues regarding sexual development and orientation. 30 years ago, yes. Today no. We may not know the mechanisms by which sexual orientation develop, but this is irrelevant. Conversions therapies do not work. They do not work because the fundamental underpinnings of gender development and preference are not easy to change. Keep in mind that the vast majority of organisms on this planet, including the majority of vertebrates (e.g. fish) exhibit some form of hermaphroditism - sequential (they change gender and sexual orientation throughout their lives) or simultaneous (they are BOTH male and female at the same time - and exhibit hybrid sexual behaviors). The whole obsession with distinct genders and sexual orientation obviates the fact that on this planet a small percent of the species even have distinct sexes. Moreover homosexual, bisexual behaviors have been found in every species imaginable where gender differences like that of humans exist. Diversity - of sexual behaviors, orientations and preferences, is the norm NOT the exception in nature. The religious conservatives that make the hyper-concerns with sex a major part of their value systems have got to come to terms that their creator - was totally fine (actually preferred) hermaprhoditism and all manners of sexual behaviors and kinds of genders imaginable.
8
I'm not sure I agree with everything said above. Until very recently, when human science intervened with surrogate methods of primate fertilization, fully homosexual primates that did not have at least one naturally successful heterosexual encounter that resulted in offspring that grew to maturity to mate heterosexually, did not pass on their DNA. Fully homosexual primates without progeny did not pass on any "homosexual genes". As primates, especially humans have very complex social interactions and sexual options available to them, and that have large brains that can make free will choices of action, choice has to play a major part in ones sexual preference. Perhaps not always, but often. Regardless, sexual orientation choices should be a protected right.
2
Exactly how is "conversion" or "reparative" therapy to be defined? Does it include talk therapy with a psychologist by a patient who is conflicted about their sexual orientation? To define it as an attempt to change the orientation of a person who "is gay" is, of course, to presuppose the very thing that is at issue. It seems to me that if anything is going to be banned or condemned then it needs to be delimited clearly in such a way that it can be objectively shown to be harmful, since, in general, a liberal society should make room for competing conceptions of the good.
2
The call ignores the scientific ... and common-sense ... arguments on three fronts:
One, an entire segment of the population (3%) is being used and abused on the altar o Democrat-politics. While the intention has been to end discrimination, one result has been discrimination for a different group of people—those men whose social and moral values and sense of self cannot incorporate their homosexuality. Failure by the psychiatric profession to recognize homosexuality as an unwanted condition for some, serves to discourage members of the mental health profession from offering treatment. Most harmfully, the client himself is disheartened, since the very profession to which he turns for help tells him that it is not a problem and he must accept it.
Dr. Paul Mchugh calls it "wasting scientific and other resources by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure and finally eliminate it!" But this means ... nothing ... to a Democrat, it seems!
One, an entire segment of the population (3%) is being used and abused on the altar o Democrat-politics. While the intention has been to end discrimination, one result has been discrimination for a different group of people—those men whose social and moral values and sense of self cannot incorporate their homosexuality. Failure by the psychiatric profession to recognize homosexuality as an unwanted condition for some, serves to discourage members of the mental health profession from offering treatment. Most harmfully, the client himself is disheartened, since the very profession to which he turns for help tells him that it is not a problem and he must accept it.
Dr. Paul Mchugh calls it "wasting scientific and other resources by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure and finally eliminate it!" But this means ... nothing ... to a Democrat, it seems!
5
If you don't like being straight nothing can be done about that, it doesn't matter if you want to be or not and it certainly doesn't matter if someone else has a problem with the fact that you're straight.
The same goes with being gay. The solution to this problem is for people who claim to be Christians to honor all of God's creations and treat them with respect.
The same goes with being gay. The solution to this problem is for people who claim to be Christians to honor all of God's creations and treat them with respect.
6
As usual, Obama only goes halfway on these matters of equality and basic human rights. We need to end this tyranny of control and guilt that shames people and prevents them from living fulfilling lives by being forced into something they weren't born to.
Ending heterosexual conversion therapy is only the start. What about gay conversion therapy?
Being gay is special and a gift and I am sick and tired of people not born that way trying to be that way because they think that its cool, hip, "with it", artistic, etc.
So many straights are trying this gay conversion therapy and its really insulting. They just need to accept that they can't be gay. They weren't born that way and they will never be that way.
Obama. End this now.
Ending heterosexual conversion therapy is only the start. What about gay conversion therapy?
Being gay is special and a gift and I am sick and tired of people not born that way trying to be that way because they think that its cool, hip, "with it", artistic, etc.
So many straights are trying this gay conversion therapy and its really insulting. They just need to accept that they can't be gay. They weren't born that way and they will never be that way.
Obama. End this now.
4
The call ignores the scientific ... and common-sense ... arguments on three fronts:
One, an entire segment of the population (3%) is being used and abused on the altar of expedient-politics. While the intention has been to end discrimination, one result has been discrimination for a different group of people—those men whose social and moral values and sense of self cannot incorporate their homosexuality. Failure by the psychiatric profession to recognize homosexuality as an unwanted condition for some, serves to discourage members of the mental health profession from offering treatment. Most harmfully, the client himself is disheartened, since the very profession to which he turns for help tells him that it is not a problem and he must accept it.
Dr. Paul Mchugh in "Surgical Sex" calls it "wasting scientific and other resources by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure and finally eliminate it!"
But this means ... nothing ... to some people, it seems!
One, an entire segment of the population (3%) is being used and abused on the altar of expedient-politics. While the intention has been to end discrimination, one result has been discrimination for a different group of people—those men whose social and moral values and sense of self cannot incorporate their homosexuality. Failure by the psychiatric profession to recognize homosexuality as an unwanted condition for some, serves to discourage members of the mental health profession from offering treatment. Most harmfully, the client himself is disheartened, since the very profession to which he turns for help tells him that it is not a problem and he must accept it.
Dr. Paul Mchugh in "Surgical Sex" calls it "wasting scientific and other resources by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure and finally eliminate it!"
But this means ... nothing ... to some people, it seems!
1
I was a licensed psychologist for about 40 years until I retired my license a couple of years ago. I do not know what the professional credentials are of people engaged in conversion therapy, but I think I could have lost my license if I had taken money from somebody claiming I could change their sexual orientation. Psychologists try to be constrained by data.
I apologize if someone else has already posted this, and if I am off a little on details. Way back when, an English mother wrote Sigmund Freud and asked him to come to England and fix her homosexual son. Freud replied that if her son were to come to Vienna, he would try to help him deal with and accept his homosexuality, but he could not change him. The responsible position has not changed in a century.
I apologize if someone else has already posted this, and if I am off a little on details. Way back when, an English mother wrote Sigmund Freud and asked him to come to England and fix her homosexual son. Freud replied that if her son were to come to Vienna, he would try to help him deal with and accept his homosexuality, but he could not change him. The responsible position has not changed in a century.
19
Thank you for your excellent comment.
9
Yes, people like Dr Pickup significantly undermine the efforts of those who practice ethically, using evidenced based treatment models.
I do hope that journalist following this issue will follow up with the licensing boards to find out how they identify those who would continue to offer such illegal therapies, or who continue to champion their use, such as Dr Pickup, and that they will encourage others to be diligent about checking on the philosophies of potential MH providers..
I do hope that journalist following this issue will follow up with the licensing boards to find out how they identify those who would continue to offer such illegal therapies, or who continue to champion their use, such as Dr Pickup, and that they will encourage others to be diligent about checking on the philosophies of potential MH providers..
It seems people are very eager to provide help and support to individuals that genetically would be male or female, but emotionally feel like they would be happier as someone of the opposite gender. If we believe that people are born homosexual, the same way one may be born with definitively male or female genitalia, why could we not support someone that is born gay/lesbian but desires to be straight? I certainly don't think that youth should forced into reparative therapy, but if people want to try to become their true selves, shouldn't that be available to homosexuals that would prefer to live a straight life as equally as it does to men and women that struggle with their gender identity?
7
the reason gay and lesbian kids are not happy with their sexuality is the messages they get from everywhere telling them they are immoral instead of accepting who they naturally are. stop shaming them, and they may stop being ashamed.
6
Have you ever considered why homosexuals take up reparative therapy? Ever thought about the oppressive weight of society and religion's bigotry and social pressure? How about the surrounding hate, mean looks, potential disownment, rejection from peers, violence and abuse? That's why gays try the therapy; they feel compelled to conform to society at the expense of being and loving themselves for who they are. Gays trying to be straight is like straights trying to be gay - it's against their nature and thus would never bring them the fulfillment and happiness that accepting themselves would. They can't change it - that's a fact. So to answer "why could we not support someone that is born gay/lesbian but desires to be straight", it's recommended that we instead value facts where they are, that reparative therapies are just a way for desperate gays to appease their haters by attempting to change something they can't. Better question is, why can't people open up books or read for once and actually learn instead of being afraid of what they don't understand? The more people understand, the better people become, and maybe just being gay won't be a problem anymore.
9
Maybe the reasons some people are not happy with their sexuality are complicated, and maybe we needn't assume at the outset that they "are" homosexual, or gay, or lesbian.
1
Along with Mr. Pickup's remarks, it would have been useful if the writer also mentioned that every single major professional healthcare organization in the country condemns reparative therapy as dangerous and unethical.
11
That would be what, 25 organizations? As opposed to 1000 smaller groups that think otherwise? In the Land of the Free, everyone has a right to Free Speech. But as the new book from Kirsten Powers, former Gore staffer shows, the Left has no respect for Free Speech when its agenda is threatened. Hence, Ferguson, and Rolling Stone, where the ends justifies the means.
1
Please the reason are much more simple than you imply. According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II. (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)
Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco. These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal. http://www.behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-m...
Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco. These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal. http://www.behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-m...
Charles, you say very strange things.
1
As I read the comments sections here and in other liberals sites (New Republic, Time, Mother Jones etc), I see an obsession of liberals to proclaim themselves superior (intellectually, morally, ethically, spiritually) to anyone who does not think like they do. There's actually very little youj're-wrong-because.... The dominant theme seems to be I'm-smarter-better-more wonderful and you're stupid-bigoted-stupid. Thomas Sowell (a non-person from the NYT point of view) subtitled one of his books "Self-congratulation as the Basic of Social Policy". What kind of society would one expect when one political philosophy has such a core belief in their superiority over those they wish to rule?
7
As William F. Buckley Jr. said of the Democrat elites: "I'd rather be governed by the first 500 names in the Boston phone book than by the US Congress."
@Jvermeer51
As I read your comment and others like it, I see an obsession of right-wing conservatives to proclaim their lifestyles and their opinions as superior (morally, ethically, spiritually (*)) -- this has particular reference to those who learn their science (there is no global warming; you can definitely "cure" sexual preferences) and their Christian love of their fellow human beings (if you're not a white, heterosexual, preferably male, there's something wrong with you) in the evangelical churches of middle America. (*) I didn't include the word "intellectually" in the list, as you did, because there is not intellect operating in the idea that LGBT persons can be "converted" to something less "flawed" and more like the leaders of the Christian right, or in thinking there is no global warming, or that there is no "self-congratulation" going on in those quarters.
Indeed, what kind of society can one expect when the political philosophy of so many includes a core belief in the superiority of religious beliefs over fact, and the notion that it is this private belief system that should infuse every aspect of our society?
We don't burn witches anymore -- but apparently LGBT people can stand in when religious fanatics need someone to fear and hate
As I read your comment and others like it, I see an obsession of right-wing conservatives to proclaim their lifestyles and their opinions as superior (morally, ethically, spiritually (*)) -- this has particular reference to those who learn their science (there is no global warming; you can definitely "cure" sexual preferences) and their Christian love of their fellow human beings (if you're not a white, heterosexual, preferably male, there's something wrong with you) in the evangelical churches of middle America. (*) I didn't include the word "intellectually" in the list, as you did, because there is not intellect operating in the idea that LGBT persons can be "converted" to something less "flawed" and more like the leaders of the Christian right, or in thinking there is no global warming, or that there is no "self-congratulation" going on in those quarters.
Indeed, what kind of society can one expect when the political philosophy of so many includes a core belief in the superiority of religious beliefs over fact, and the notion that it is this private belief system that should infuse every aspect of our society?
We don't burn witches anymore -- but apparently LGBT people can stand in when religious fanatics need someone to fear and hate
21
Excellent, excellent reply.
4
Are there many "transgender individuals" working in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building? Are there any?? Are there other kinds of therapies of which the president disapproves? Will he be open to conversations with lawmakers about banning those as well? When, do you suppose, did Barack Obama first realize the he was the way, the truth and the life, that he was the one we were waiting for to lead us both as individuals and a nation on the path to enlightenment?
4
" When, do you suppose, did Barack Obama first realize the he was the way, the truth and the life, that he was the one we were waiting for to lead us both as individuals and a nation on the path to enlightenment?"
Never. Got any more questions?
Never. Got any more questions?
1
This president is also trans... transcendent.
Love him.
Love him.
12
Not bad for a guy who just evolved two years ago.
6
I believe it was Biden who converted him. He was angry at first but now Obama drops his hands when Biden walks into his space.
Looks like for those interested in an in-depth analysis of the legal side of this issue, some viewers can read a recently published article in full, here:
http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/5BHHpR4efTD2tEAQCSbm/full
Or alternatively, here;
http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/ulgm20#/doi/full/10.1080/01947648.2014.98...
http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/5BHHpR4efTD2tEAQCSbm/full
Or alternatively, here;
http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/ulgm20#/doi/full/10.1080/01947648.2014.98...
1
David "Pickup" needs to be "discarded" and license revoked! Why his license has not been revoked is beyond me. Two ethical breaches: not practicing in areas of competencies and doing harm. There is no known treatment backed by legitimate, science-based, valid research or training; just sexual exploitation, molestation, and child abuse; and at a minimal, parental neglect!
- www.linkedin.com/pub/bryce-thompson/26/390/744/
- www.linkedin.com/pub/bryce-thompson/26/390/744/
4
I can see that your overly qualified to make that assertion, and well trained for the exclusive examination of psychiatrist, pscyologist and therapist. Next you will be telling us how much subjective intelligence you have acquired and that your have written an entire encyclopedia on homosexual invertibrates who live near and around the San Francisco Basin. My such talent. Don't let it go to waste.
1
It seems that Obama is also continuing his growing embrace of his "Omnipotent Ruler" disguise. He is faster than a speeding bullet while still able to leap tall tales and interfere with subjects of which he knows nothing.
I believe the Roman Catholic doctrine considers an elected Pope to be divine by virtue of his election to that post. I don't think that magical transformation is granted to American presidents no matter how charming and tall heshe is.
I believe the Roman Catholic doctrine considers an elected Pope to be divine by virtue of his election to that post. I don't think that magical transformation is granted to American presidents no matter how charming and tall heshe is.
5
No, the Pope is never considered to be divine, or even semi-divine. He's just the leader of the College of Cardinals, etc.
4
That's just silly. Wait! Come to think of it, no sillier than Bush suggesting a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage when he ran for reelection in 2004.
6
Mr. Obama not only started his life and career opposed to gays, he continues to be opposed, but it's not politically expediant. I believe this rests in his religion. Regardless, it is telling when a president is willing to fight for the rights of others even when they disagree. It is the defense of individual rights that makes this country great. Sadly, those defenders are fading into something we now call 'progressive.'
And can we please stop coming up with legislation or 'bans' without legislation based on one or a hundred incidents? This knee jerk response by DC, local governments, and the media is destructive at best. Leelah should have sued her parents in a court of law, or at least have been able to get a court order to stop her parents. We have countless kids that are sent to therapists (often not good ones) for any number of reasons. They end up on meds that may or may not work, but only their parents have a say. That is wrong, and it goes way beyond transgender, gay, bi, etc. ways of life.
And can we please stop coming up with legislation or 'bans' without legislation based on one or a hundred incidents? This knee jerk response by DC, local governments, and the media is destructive at best. Leelah should have sued her parents in a court of law, or at least have been able to get a court order to stop her parents. We have countless kids that are sent to therapists (often not good ones) for any number of reasons. They end up on meds that may or may not work, but only their parents have a say. That is wrong, and it goes way beyond transgender, gay, bi, etc. ways of life.
10
You're wrong. President Obama never demonized gay people. Like many Americans he at first resisted the idea of legalizing same sex marriage and then like so many of us he came to realize that was the wrong thing to do.
9
As medical science discovers more and more about the brain, perhaps someday a person may decide which gender to be. In the past I've had a number of gay friends and I sometimes envied them for having what I thought was a remarkable social life. But there were problems too, some not because of prejudice against their being gay. One friend who had MS didn't think he fulfilled the Apollonian image that was needed. Another asked me to help interpret a dream that seemed to indicate some sort of frustration at sex not leading to procreation. For now, though, if choice of gender isn't possible then the means to live most happily according to what one has been given would seem appropriate.
6
I have never worked so or given another candidate so many contributions. He has been everything I hoped he would be.
Thank you President Obama.
Thank you President Obama.
11
We live in an American culture where gays can marry in selected states but if you're a LGBT youth under 18 you can be subjected to gay conversion therapy by your parents in every state? Dissonance at its finest.
19
There is a vast difference between reparative therapy to stop people from being gay, and the currently popular "transgendering" of young children. Conflating the two is dangerous and misguided--and in fact, fundamentally homophobic. Multiple studies have shown that most children (75% or more) who exhibit "gender dysphoria" in childhood not only grow out of it--they usually grow up to be gay or bisexual! It's not a stretch to see that the current use of puberty blockers and early medical transition of kids is a form of proactive reparative therapy to prevent adult homosexuality.
Please see this article for more information. Telling young kids that yes, if you think you are the opposite sex--you are--is fundamentally homophobic.
https://4thwavenow.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/president-obama-how-is-this-...
Please see this article for more information. Telling young kids that yes, if you think you are the opposite sex--you are--is fundamentally homophobic.
https://4thwavenow.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/president-obama-how-is-this-...
3
You know, how have we got this far without this nonsense? Now we need separate toilot facilities to accommodate what I think has got to be a very small percentage of the population. Why don't we just make one toilot with a any gender sign on it with a locking door and don't forget to put the seat down when you leave. Who are these people that can't figure out who they are?
5
They don't know...that's what is taking so long. I check myself out every morning just to be sure of myself. Usually I get the same answer.
4
Well, don't worry yourself, bmar. We've certainly figured out who you are -- and it ain't pretty.
6
The labeled door is exactly the norm in several Scandinavian counties. Sometimes the seat isn't down. We deal with it. But the question here is why outside of the toilet was Ms. Alcorn made to feel so unreal.
2
Why don’t gay rights advocates demand the right on a therapy that aimes at the opposite: transformation of a straight person into a gay? And what arguments would they have against an eventual presidential veto on this one too?
Well, this therapy simply would be carrying water to the sea, wouldn’t it? Gay pressure groups have succeeded to change society into a worldwide factory of gays and lesbians, and the 90 % straight people have no choice but to pretend they don’t care if their child, their brother or sister, father or mother ceases to be straight.
Well, this therapy simply would be carrying water to the sea, wouldn’t it? Gay pressure groups have succeeded to change society into a worldwide factory of gays and lesbians, and the 90 % straight people have no choice but to pretend they don’t care if their child, their brother or sister, father or mother ceases to be straight.
1
We are not answering this because it is ridiculous.
5
That's alright, Carol, I'll do it:
Gay people don't want straight people to become gay—the only thing we think is wrong with straight people is that they keep wanting us to become straight.
What gay people want is simply the right to exist as we are without defending or validation ourselves, free form harm and abuse, in a state of dignity, and equal under the law.
Gay people don't want straight people to become gay—the only thing we think is wrong with straight people is that they keep wanting us to become straight.
What gay people want is simply the right to exist as we are without defending or validation ourselves, free form harm and abuse, in a state of dignity, and equal under the law.
Just a day after the Wasserman-Shultz decried the government coming between a woman and killing her unborn child Obama tries to inject the government in far less consequential decisions.
4
The only thing that saddens me about this is that the federal government won't be taking action to protect teenagers from this shameful barbarity once and for all. But that, I think, is not Obama's fault.
10
What is in desperate need of 'repair' is the repressive hate-filled so-called morality of a baby soul religion that finds another human's being somehow lacking. Pry up the edge of this dirty carpet of intolerance and you'll find fear. Let's repair that.
6
The religious hatred and bigotry on the NYT comboxes is utterly breathtaking.
More to the point, it's irrationality completely overwhelms any occasional concomitant rational thought.
Hateful and bigoted demands to end hate and bigotry? Really?
More to the point, it's irrationality completely overwhelms any occasional concomitant rational thought.
Hateful and bigoted demands to end hate and bigotry? Really?
3
We are lucky to have a 2015 thinking man as our 2015 USA president.
Thank you Barack Obama.
Thank you Barack Obama.
14
It amazes me how religious organizations still feel the need to perform rituals aimed at changing what God had created naturally. Leave nature alone and save your miracles for your believers.
8
And we thought it was now the Middle Ages only on "Wolf Hall."
Therapists can still make money. Send the same person to a therapist who specializes in helping people feel good about themselves. Win-win!
Therapists can still make money. Send the same person to a therapist who specializes in helping people feel good about themselves. Win-win!
4
President Obama is the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you, Mr. President for taking the time to bring this very important issue forward. Even though this may put Michelle Bachman's husband out of business, it's the right thing to do.
7
So the government can force you to undergo chemotherapy and now wants to influence what levels and types of therapy are correct and acceptable. Not a far trip down the road to the formation of "re education" centers to help get Citizens thinking correctly and helping them for their own good.
4
The government is only asserting what the scientifically supported positions of the medical community. How strange that the parallel between your assertion of the evils of re education centers and sexual re-assignment therapy escapes you.
3
I would, at the very least, hope that no federal dollars are available to those who practice this "therapy." Insurance should not cover such "therapy." When the dollars are removed from the equation, I would expect a sharp drop in the availability of such practitioners. And I would hope that the boards that license such practitioners would actively work to revoke the licenses of those whom embrace and prescribe these practices. It is akin to giving chemotherapy and radiation for freckles.
16
It seems there are federal dollars to provide a sex change operation to jailed prisoners. Or is that operation not a choice??
1
Good for President Obama. I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, clergyman, or even gay, but as a counter-balance to the proponents of conversion/reparative therapy, I would like to propose a new treatment modality: Inversion Therapy. This treatment would enable self-loathing heterosexuals to free themselves of the onerous burden of their sexual identities and live their lives going gaily forward! Every human being on this planet, male, female, gay, straight, bi, trans, black, white, red, yellow, brown, or polka-dotted is born complete, whole, perfect, and deeply flawed. None of us needs conversion or repair in the context of this discussion. What each of us needs is acceptance of our individual humanity and the encouragement to be the best person that hides under our flaws and fears.
25
Just as we give the freedom and support for someone to "discover" that they are gay we must also give the freedom and support for someone who struggles with being gay to "discover" that they are don't have to stay gay, if they do not want to. How can it be okay to embrace homosexuality but not okay to leave homosexuality, if that is what you desire. Some people struggle in the straight life with identity issues and some people struggle in the gay life with identity issues. There must be support and affirmation for both groups to change as it meets their needs.
7
If an LGBT person wants to leave homosexuality, that is his/her decision. It is not a decision for parents or others to make for a minor child. What Obama is saying, along with LGBT supporters, is that this is an adult decision to be made by the adult person who sees such therapy.
3
--- "How can it be okay to embrace ... but not okay to leave..."
The answer is simple. There are no effective therapies for leaving, i.e. changing, one's sexual orientation, be it from straight to gay or gay to straight. It is junk science. It is snake oil. The only reason people "struggle" with a gay identity is because our society shuns and discriminates against gay people. Fix that, and no one would struggle with their innate sexual orientation.
The answer is simple. There are no effective therapies for leaving, i.e. changing, one's sexual orientation, be it from straight to gay or gay to straight. It is junk science. It is snake oil. The only reason people "struggle" with a gay identity is because our society shuns and discriminates against gay people. Fix that, and no one would struggle with their innate sexual orientation.
9
The Ludovico technique has been effective treatment.
1
I am licensed (LCSW) in the state of CA; I certainly will be working against practitioners like David Pickup, who undermine the ability of reputable practitioners to provide service. CA (and the other 49) need to start revoking the licenses of clinicians willing to torture their clients to achieve their "authentic selves" I hope our licensing board has already seen this article, and is looking into unethical practices by Pickup
8
DT, you may very well end up in court with some kind of civil law suit against you for attacking a licensed professional who is providing professional services to clients seeking his help. The continued assault on the liberties of citizens has got to stop and the esoteric ramblings. Your kind are a real and dangerous threat to society. There are countless numbers of individuals looking to escape from the homosexual lifestyle and that your ilk is trying to prevent them from getting help is unimaginable considering your claim be a professional therapist.
2
Why not to add an end to religious conversions as well? As all religions are believed to be God given, conversion from one to another is against the divine allocation.
1
Considering that at best these "conversions" can claim no more than a 60% "success" rate (that is, the clients stop having sex with members of their own gender; they're no less gay, mind you, just less happy--and sex drives tend to diminish with age anyway), and it's only a matter of time before a significant number of those are found in gay bars trying to score, you wouldn't think we'd need the President himself to step in and call for an end to this infamous, damaging, and inefficient practice.
1
>
Freud states that the id is bisexual, Google it; so all this orientation was already baked into the cake millions of years ago. That is, you cannot unbake a cake. Pretty sure the Greeks recognized this before Freud.
Freuds assertion fits nicely with the homophobic person. The homophobe receives uncomfortable sexual impulses from the id, which he attempts, via the aggressive instincts, to turn them back against himself, self hatred, or he turns them to the external world to protect his weak ego.
With that we can end class today.
Freud states that the id is bisexual, Google it; so all this orientation was already baked into the cake millions of years ago. That is, you cannot unbake a cake. Pretty sure the Greeks recognized this before Freud.
Freuds assertion fits nicely with the homophobic person. The homophobe receives uncomfortable sexual impulses from the id, which he attempts, via the aggressive instincts, to turn them back against himself, self hatred, or he turns them to the external world to protect his weak ego.
With that we can end class today.
8
I, too, am surprised at the number of people, who I assume are often Tea Party members/right wingers, who don't think our government's role is to protect the vulnerable among us. I think this is sad and scary.
11
Does our constitution say that the socialist/ libs have the omnipotent right to decide who is vulnerable??/ Does our constitution forbid those who would meddle in affairs not their own from sticking their nose in affairs of others?
What part of the constitution demands "fairness" of outcome? What makes some paranoids see evil political intents in everything??
I am surprised that left wingers are so scared of "bad think".
What part of the constitution demands "fairness" of outcome? What makes some paranoids see evil political intents in everything??
I am surprised that left wingers are so scared of "bad think".
1
Of course when conservatives suggest that the Government should protect the rights of the most vulnerable of all, the unborn, the progressives say that is not their business. Like all liberals you are only interested in such protection when it suits your own beliefs.
1
Doing some research, I came upon this:
"According to a 2009 report of the American Psychological Association, the techniques therapists have used to try to change sexual orientation and gender identity include inducing nausea, vomiting, or paralysis while showing the patient homoerotic images; providing electric shocks; having the individual snap an elastic band around the wrist when aroused by same-sex erotic images or thoughts; using shame to create aversion to same-sex attractions; orgasmic reconditioning; and satiation therapy."
"The current practice guidelines for the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), which is a group of therapists who endorse and practice conversion therapy in the United States, encourage its members to consider techniques that include hypnosis, behavior and cognitive therapies, sex therapies, and psychotropic medication, among others."
http://www.nclrights.org/bornperfect-the-facts-about-conversion-therapy/
Nausea, vomiting, paralysis, electric shock, hypnosis, psychotropic medication? Does anyone truly believe these are appropriate things to do to children?
I know, the site is a site that supports LGBT persons. But the quotes come from an American Psychological Association report and from the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), and are not "opinions" from NCL Rights, but actual factual quotes.
"According to a 2009 report of the American Psychological Association, the techniques therapists have used to try to change sexual orientation and gender identity include inducing nausea, vomiting, or paralysis while showing the patient homoerotic images; providing electric shocks; having the individual snap an elastic band around the wrist when aroused by same-sex erotic images or thoughts; using shame to create aversion to same-sex attractions; orgasmic reconditioning; and satiation therapy."
"The current practice guidelines for the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), which is a group of therapists who endorse and practice conversion therapy in the United States, encourage its members to consider techniques that include hypnosis, behavior and cognitive therapies, sex therapies, and psychotropic medication, among others."
http://www.nclrights.org/bornperfect-the-facts-about-conversion-therapy/
Nausea, vomiting, paralysis, electric shock, hypnosis, psychotropic medication? Does anyone truly believe these are appropriate things to do to children?
I know, the site is a site that supports LGBT persons. But the quotes come from an American Psychological Association report and from the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), and are not "opinions" from NCL Rights, but actual factual quotes.
22
Awful. These quacks should be sent to prison. Hypnosis can change orientation in a certain percentage of willing adults -- that is known -- but the other techniques are barbarous and mostly ineffectual and often harmful. And hypnosis should *never* be used on a teenager or someone who is trying to change for the wrong reasons, such as social and religious pressure, as the resulting internal conflict can cause terrible damage and even make people suicidal.
1
You should do even more research, and read Dr. Joseph Nicolosi's "The Remval of Homosexuality from the Psychiatric Manual" ( http://www.catholicsocialscientists.org/CSSR/Archival/2001/Nicolosi_71-7... ) and Dr. Charles Socarides' "exual Politics and Scientific Logic: The Issue of Homosexuality" ( http://kidhistory.org/homopolo.html )
They are both stunning indictments of the culture of evidence-avoidance that infects the APA.
They are both stunning indictments of the culture of evidence-avoidance that infects the APA.
I heartily agree with the President. Stop forcing people to "believe", period! The parents and others who chastise a child or adult for just being themselves are really the ones in need of therapy.
8
What will you suggest we do with advertising and political parties.??
Is the main business of both not to try to "force" people to believe their way???
Is the main business of both not to try to "force" people to believe their way???
uffdaron: No, I don't believe the political parties (including the Republicans who I dislike intensely) try to force people to believe their way. Political parties try to entice the folks to join them. They often succeed, not always a good thing, but not forcing!
I spent most of my 20's trying to be "made straight". Everything from shock aversion "therapy" to hypnosis to surrogate "therapy" to "bio-feedback" and more. Of course, it didn't work. It took me seven years to finally say "leave me alone". The fact that it's still done today after nearly 40 years is outrageous. I've known kids on the street (16, 17, 18) that ended up there because their parents sent them to Utah for "conversion therapy". Their only recourse was to find their way to more open minded places only to find themselves homeless. In hindsight, I was lucky - certainly compared to those poor kids.
30
Utah. Enough said. I'm sorry for the pain you have experienced. I never knew such things existed, until recently. Now, that the "gate" is open, we should never let it close again.
1
Fully agreed, except... please don't dismiss out of hand my entire home state as a bastion of intolerance. I grew up in Salt Lake City, and even 30 years ago I had many gay friends who had recently moved there recently because the city was gay-friendly (their term, not mine). I grew up among a very culturally diverse group of people and, having now lived in several other urban areas, I see a lot more overt discrimination in traditionally liberal states, including the vaunted East Coast ones.
1
If indeed we accept that gender identity is hard-wired, as we're now assured it is by the vast majority of experts, then the president is fully justified in seeking to outlaw what some believe in useful but what objectively appears to be quackery.
9
How can gender identity be said to be hard-wired when so many now claim a flexible range of gender expression that changes sometimes on a daily basis?
There is a body of psychiatric opinion that accepts no such thing. In their view, "gender dysphoria" is in fact a psychological and/or behavioral problem and should be treated as such. Shall they be dismissed as quacks as well?
In any event, none of this is the president's "job." He doesn't get to choose which forms of behavior and expression are acceptable and which are not.
There is a body of psychiatric opinion that accepts no such thing. In their view, "gender dysphoria" is in fact a psychological and/or behavioral problem and should be treated as such. Shall they be dismissed as quacks as well?
In any event, none of this is the president's "job." He doesn't get to choose which forms of behavior and expression are acceptable and which are not.
2
I'd like to clear up some confusion that has been repeated throughout these comments: Sexuality and gender identity are not the same thing. Sexuality exists on a spectrum, with homosexuality and heterosexuality being on opposite sides, and bisexuality existing somewhere in the middle. Likewise, gender identity may be considered on a spectrum, with opposite sides of the spectrum being cis-gendered (gender identity consistent with sex assigned at birth) and transgendered (gender identity that is not sex assigned at birth) on opposite sides of the spectrum. The term transgender is often used to describe any gender-non conformity, so this is not always used to indicate someone on that "opposite side" of the spectrum. In the middle are people who are genderqueer, or neither identify as male as female.
This, someone who is transgender may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, etc, just as someone who is cisgender may. Conversion therapy aimed at transgender people is aimed at changing their gender expression, whereas conversion therapy for homosexual people attempts to change their sexual identity. The scientific community views both homosexuality and transsexuality as normal variations of human expression and behavior. In both cases, the scientific community unanimously condemns the practice of conversion therapy.
This, someone who is transgender may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, etc, just as someone who is cisgender may. Conversion therapy aimed at transgender people is aimed at changing their gender expression, whereas conversion therapy for homosexual people attempts to change their sexual identity. The scientific community views both homosexuality and transsexuality as normal variations of human expression and behavior. In both cases, the scientific community unanimously condemns the practice of conversion therapy.
8
Speaking as a queer youth(20) in America, I have always felt very non-existent in times I've tried to speak up about the issues regarding the way Gender Identity and Sexual Identity are viewed in the country, or rather not viewed. I have signed many petitions, attended rallies, and moved to start GSA's in my old Middle and High schools. Seeing a petition, that was started by the tragic suicide of a beautiful young woman, that I signed, that I supported, that I promoted, make it far enough to be not only seen, but acknowledged as a serious issue, then actively addressed, gives me a new hope that I've never had. I have faced hate, bigotry, and violence for most of my life, based on what others saw as a choice. I have been spit on, and told I was many horrible things. In high school, I would have done anything to not be who I was, to know I was a cisgender heterosexual woman, and have that be the end of my self doubt and introspection. But that is not the case. I have known who I was since I was very young. I am pansexual. I am genderfluid. And I am always going to be both of those things. It gives me so much hope, seeing this, that future generations may not have to experience the awful experiences I had when I was younger. Or be forced into some delusion that damages their emotions on the same wave-length of Stockholm Syndrome. This is one of the bigger steps in between hundreds of smaller steps, on the road to nationwide acceptance. Keep listening, we will never be quiet.
19
I'm startled, and ill informed, but persistently open-minded. Thanks.
2
If my comment made you want to learn more, and be informed, I am very happy. I wish you the best.
3
Tess,
You may wish to read what the author Quentin Crisp has to say and why he came to America in his "Manners from Heaven" - He is funny, eccentric and difficult but wonderful. It is a helpful book for people of all genders, might make you laugh, while you keep on trucking. Years ago, I watched an interview where he turned to the camera and said that it is easier to belong to the Majority, but he never had any regrets.
You may wish to read what the author Quentin Crisp has to say and why he came to America in his "Manners from Heaven" - He is funny, eccentric and difficult but wonderful. It is a helpful book for people of all genders, might make you laugh, while you keep on trucking. Years ago, I watched an interview where he turned to the camera and said that it is easier to belong to the Majority, but he never had any regrets.
1
Thank you President Obama, for your courage & decency.Whatever, I have disagreed with you in the past, becomes meaningless in comparison to your position on wiping out this Evil.As a father of a magnificent Gay Son, you have just become my hero.
41
If it ain't broke how do you fix it?
14
"If it ain't broke how do you fix it?" And that's the fraud in all of this. So not Christian!
The title of the article is, "Obama to call for End the Conversion Therapy for Gay and Transgendered youth". How have so many reviewers misconstrued this and commented on the government taking away people's rights to seek conversion if they want it when this is clearly about the treatment being forced on gay and transgendered YOUTH? Anti Obama people can't help themselves from turning every argument into "the government is taking away people's choices, people's rights." This is a case where Obama is giving back the people's rights. If you are a 30 year old LBGT person who wants to believe treatment can help you become a non-LGBT person, no one wants to prevent you from pursuing that, except maybe someone who loves you as you are.
56
Because these laws make it illegal for youth to have access to treatment for their gender dysphoria...even when they want it.
There are dozens of different therapies lumped into this new "conversion therapy" ban - from the truly outrageous to the effective.
The only thing they have in common is the understanding that sexual identity and behaviors are not determined by sexual desire or appetite - however sincere or intense.
Current popular ideology is that one's sexual appetite determines their identity.
Not accepting this absurd ideology marks one branded as a "homophobe" worthy of public shaming with a six-color rainbow "H". Another modern word that has far more feeling than meaning.
There are dozens of different therapies lumped into this new "conversion therapy" ban - from the truly outrageous to the effective.
The only thing they have in common is the understanding that sexual identity and behaviors are not determined by sexual desire or appetite - however sincere or intense.
Current popular ideology is that one's sexual appetite determines their identity.
Not accepting this absurd ideology marks one branded as a "homophobe" worthy of public shaming with a six-color rainbow "H". Another modern word that has far more feeling than meaning.
They assume nobody wants to be LGBT. One-note thinking.
Sadly, it is the now "30 year old LBGT person" who hasn't been able to love him/herself as they are! So many UNHEALTHY beliefs....
The religious therapists would do better to focus their efforts on hate, bigotry, racism. hypocrisy, and dishonesty, particularly among their ranks.
30
Perhaps the president is resolving some inner conflict of his own. There is little left of the Middle East, tinkering with his own society must be therapeutic.
1
In the social circles and their environs which you invoke these “characteristics” are labeled in order of appearance as love, salvation, degeneracy, truth and faith.
You're talking about the political operatives of the ersatz religion of liberalism right?
This "it's a choice" argument is completely ridiculous and totally irrelevant.
No one should have to live in complete and utter misery, simply to live up somebody else's religious based opinions or beliefs on what is "proper" and "acceptable".
LGBTQI people are harmless. Their 'choice', if there even was one, was to be "themselves" - and the rest of us should grow up and should to live with it - without putting stumbling blocks in their way.
Let them carve their own destinies and live - without interference by those whose only argument boils down to one thing -> "not liking it".
Well done, Mr. President.
No one should have to live in complete and utter misery, simply to live up somebody else's religious based opinions or beliefs on what is "proper" and "acceptable".
LGBTQI people are harmless. Their 'choice', if there even was one, was to be "themselves" - and the rest of us should grow up and should to live with it - without putting stumbling blocks in their way.
Let them carve their own destinies and live - without interference by those whose only argument boils down to one thing -> "not liking it".
Well done, Mr. President.
26
"No one should have to live in complete and utter misery, simply to live up somebody else's religious based opinions or beliefs on what is "proper"
You're talking about the religion of liberalism and their compulsory reeducation sessions which go under the terms sensitivity training, multicultural training, diversity training, trigger warnings etc.
You're talking about the religion of liberalism and their compulsory reeducation sessions which go under the terms sensitivity training, multicultural training, diversity training, trigger warnings etc.
3
A-Double Amen Twice. Well stated.
propaganda and force is all in the eyes of the do-gooder,,, be they left or right or wrong.
propaganda and force is all in the eyes of the do-gooder,,, be they left or right or wrong.
Only a closed minded bigot would define it that way. You have a right to your opinion.
1
What next? Ban trial by ordeal? No more burning heretics at the stake? Cancel the weekly auto-de-fe? This president is just no fun!
14
It is not LGBT people who need "reparative" therapy.
22
I propose Conversion Therapy to cure conservative stupidity on this issue.
30
Just this issue?
15
There are people that are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. Maybe we need Conversion Therapy for the progressives that somehow believe that everything should be given to them by the government, and that anyone with money that they've saved should have to give that money to the guy with nothing. Maybe the fact that you want to 'cure stupidity' is very telling in itself. So, if someone disagrees with you, they are stupid? I'm not a religious conservative, have never been. However I find the attacks against anyone that differs in opinion of the lemmings that follow the progressive mantra astounding. Embarrassing. Sad.
2
What would you recommend to cure socialist-left wing idiocy except electro shock therapy??
1
Is it not way past the time to tell liberals to get their hands off of our lives.....it is time to tell the most powerful liberal in America to get his hands off our lives? You have intruded enough in the pretense of caring for others when all this is about is consolidating power, filthy power.
If a gay does not want to seek a change in his or her self identified sexual orientation, they have the freedom to go down that road. If a gay wants to change his or her lifestyle, let that be his or her choice. So if liberals are going to be honest (paradoxical arrangement) all of this talk has nothing to do with protection of anyone......this all has to do with attacking Christians and the religious freedoms of Americans. Can we just get these unprincipled liberals out of office already?
As Alveda King has stated, homosexuality, an alterable condition, is not a basis for civil rights.
If a gay does not want to seek a change in his or her self identified sexual orientation, they have the freedom to go down that road. If a gay wants to change his or her lifestyle, let that be his or her choice. So if liberals are going to be honest (paradoxical arrangement) all of this talk has nothing to do with protection of anyone......this all has to do with attacking Christians and the religious freedoms of Americans. Can we just get these unprincipled liberals out of office already?
As Alveda King has stated, homosexuality, an alterable condition, is not a basis for civil rights.
3
What planet are you writing from? Do
they have internet there?
they have internet there?
8
You and Alveda King are victims of, in your case, an unalterable condition known as stupidity.
8
This is not about a gay adult wanting any particular choice of therapy. These laws are aimed only at protecting children from exposure to the documented quackery of so-called reparative therapy. Adults remain free to buy whatever snake oil they want.
As for the homophobic ramblings of Alveda King, I'll prefer to look to a real civil rights leader, Coretta Scott King, who supported full civil rights for LGBT people.
As for the homophobic ramblings of Alveda King, I'll prefer to look to a real civil rights leader, Coretta Scott King, who supported full civil rights for LGBT people.
10
Allowing the states to protect the rights and health of young people gay or straight is insane. I wish Obama would do the right thing. He should oppose this abuse and he should also oppose the jailing of women for still births and miscarriages. It is time to stand up for everyone's rights!
4
When both houses of congress are overwhelmingly stacked full of "I hate Obama" puppets, there is zero chance that any impactful legislation could be passed. An executive order would be an overreach of authority and could be easily overturned. Unfortunately, matters of health policy, licensure and accreditation occur at the state level. Nevertheless, Obama's open position on the matter could sway a reticent lawmaker to take action.
5
Wasn't long ago it was "Hate Bush" fanatics. Not very fun is it?
1
Why did the reporter include statements from two politically biased organizations - NARTH and the Human Rights Campaign - and people who are directly affected by this issue, but not from either the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association, both of which condemn so-called "conversion therapy?" And giving the last word to a practitioner of this therapy only adds to the problems with this article. It's typical "he said-she said" journalism.
16
The NYTimes is not interested in intelligent discussion or providing all the facts. They are interested in stirring up the far left progressives into hate rants against their fellow Americans. And yes, all are fellow Americans.
I personnally detest Conversion therapy, but then so do all the psycological organizations rooted in the practice of medicine by consensus.
I personnally detest Conversion therapy, but then so do all the psycological organizations rooted in the practice of medicine by consensus.
The best thing that could happen for all humanity is for every religion to just go away and disappear. Religion is the bane of humanity.
23
Susan, I thought I was the only one who thinks religion, not money, is the root of all evil.
Coerced therapies on anyone, especially minors, seems ridiculous and probably cause a lot more harm than good.
11
Young readers of NYT will be smart to channel their enthusiasm for Mr. Obama's position into political support for candidates and organizations that support a ban on conversion therapy. With this battle deflected into the States rather than dealing with it at the Federal level, the many Republican-controlled legislatures, well-infused with Christian conservative influence, will be the legislative bodies passing or blocking legislation. Your enthusiasm must become political activism.
14
Once again, President Obama has demonstrated true leadership. He backs up his words with deeds. He explains his positions, and the reasoning behind them, with clarity and grace. He gets better every day. History will judge him very, very well.
19
I'm a victim of reparative therapy. At 16 my parents, they believed was the best for me, sent me to therapy. After a year or so I finally was able to convince my parents to stop sending me to it. After therapy I have never been the same I went from been basically an outgoing person to a very introverted individual that has a difficult time relating to other people. I tried to commit suicide once during therapy because I could't take the electric shocks to my wrist and the constant put down of my sexuallity and my being. If you love your children NEVER send them to this HELL that will only make them miserable and at most will make them hide who they are from you...
25
I am so sorry this happened to you. I wish you health and happiness going forward. You're obviously a very brave and resilient person.
7
This is the same Obama who ran for president in 2008 proclaiming that marriage could only be between one man and one woman. I guess he has "evolved" again. Hypocrite.
2
It's hard to see how any sentient being could be against psychological torture, which is what you seem to be advocating.
11
All politicians, if they have any success, are hypocrites at one time or another, in the sense that the essence of politics is the ability to be "politic" in your statements. There is no such thing as a successful politician who has never lied about his positions in order to make himself palatable to a larger number of people. But I strongly believe the "evolution" involved here is an evolution towards being willing to say what he really believes without fear - after all, he has no more elections to face. This is hardly a comment on the value of his position now, which is the right one
9
We all are changing and evolving. It's what enables us to learn and make new choices. It's what helps us to think in terms of why we feel the way we do and then make constructive and resourced contributions to the relevant topic.
1
While he's at it, why not ban naturopathy, Chinese medicine, diet fads and herbal supplements? If evidence of efficacy is to determine what is legal or not, then there a thousands of things our government should ban. Sounds a bit Orwellian after thinking about it.
8
Great comment.
Because this is an easy no-risk PR spin for the administration to make. Very very few support conversion so it is easy to "call for an end" to it, whatever that exactly means.
Because this is an easy no-risk PR spin for the administration to make. Very very few support conversion so it is easy to "call for an end" to it, whatever that exactly means.
2
The FDA has already banned supplements containing ephedrine due to reports of death that have been attributed to its use. If Chinese medicine and herbal supplements have also been shown to cause harm, they will undergo the same scrutiny and action. Numerous anecdotes have established the permanent harm (deaths) attributed to GLBT reparative therapies, so government action on its legality is long overdue as far as I'm concerned.
1
What is truly Orwellian is the idea that all humans must be heterosexual or the same. Conversion therapy is an attempt to have everyone conform to a preconceived idea of what means to be human.
People who have gone through conversion therapy were probably forced into it by family or the church. Also consider this; just 50 years ago women were pregnant out of wedlock where locked up and sent away. That was cruel and perhaps conversion therapy is even crueler.
People who have gone through conversion therapy were probably forced into it by family or the church. Also consider this; just 50 years ago women were pregnant out of wedlock where locked up and sent away. That was cruel and perhaps conversion therapy is even crueler.
3
What we will not see from the current WH administration is a balanced perspective on this matter. The current president, a man of political expediency in contrast to being a man of principle, is beholden to whatever the liberal lobby tells him on this issue.
So go ahead and put in place another government ban or restriction on formal existing channels (let's call it therapy) which enable human beings to escape the homosexual lifestyle. The inevitable response, just keep changing the name of the channels and continue with the processes of liberating individuals from the homosexual lifestyle. Gays will come freely, of their own free will, to seek help to escape from the homosexual lifestyle. That being the case it is certainly within the thinking of tyrannical liberals and the current administration as a next step, to tell gays they cannot pursue freedom from homosexuality. If you leave it up to tyrannical liberals, then yes that is the next logical step.
So go ahead and put in place another government ban or restriction on formal existing channels (let's call it therapy) which enable human beings to escape the homosexual lifestyle. The inevitable response, just keep changing the name of the channels and continue with the processes of liberating individuals from the homosexual lifestyle. Gays will come freely, of their own free will, to seek help to escape from the homosexual lifestyle. That being the case it is certainly within the thinking of tyrannical liberals and the current administration as a next step, to tell gays they cannot pursue freedom from homosexuality. If you leave it up to tyrannical liberals, then yes that is the next logical step.
1
Henri Amber needs some very serious psychiatric therapy, conversion therapy and true "Christian" understanding.
8
You seem to have a bigger problem with gays than you do with liberals. That leads me to conclude you're not a closet liberal.
6
There is no gay lifestyle. You should be ashamed of being so ignorant.
It's not possible to change a person's sexual orientation. Think about it. Is there any kind of treatment that could turn you into a gay person?
It's not possible to change a person's sexual orientation. Think about it. Is there any kind of treatment that could turn you into a gay person?
2
The article cites the fringe views of the discredited Narth Institute saying sexual orientation can change, but irresponsibly fails to note that ALL recognized professional medical, psychiatric, psychological and pediatric organizations in the country call such therapies ineffective at best and often harmful.
14
Unless a person is gay or transgendered he cannot understand how a gay or transgendered child feels or how he/she became the person he/she is. The hubris of practitioners of sexual conversion who claim their "therapy" can change someone's sexual orientation or identity is not only ignorant it is criminal. Criminal because of the harm it does to vulnerable children. The believers are as ignorant of their subject as the ignorant believers who deny climate change in the face of ecologic disaster and still claim the "theory of Evolution is just an unproven theory. Parents who subject their children to this torture should be charged with child abuse.
14
As long as some people believe that sexual orientation is a choice you will have these conversions. They will never accept that any orientation from being straight is not either a perversion or a psychological impairment.
5
There has never been a legitimate, peer-reviewed case report of someone who has been "converted." Not one. As long as the fringe religious right continue to deny science, critical thinking and basic humanity, these conversion therapies will have supporters. The only way to end this barbaric practice is to illegalize it outright with harsh penalties for scofflaws.
Republican right wing presidential candidates will be tripping over each other trying to outdo each other in proclaiming this wrong. That will be entertaining. There isn't some sort of "right wing therapy" to cure their followers by any chance? Good of the President for taking this stance.
10
It's only logical with all the medical and psycho therapy education Obama has had. He is just as experienced in these professions as he is in warfare and defense,
1
And he says
"David Pickup, a licensed family therapist in California and Texas, said in an interview on Wednesday that the president and gay rights advocates were purposely misconstruing the work that he and others do. He said that minors should never be forced into therapy, but he insisted that being gay was often brought about by serious emotional problems or sexual abuse."
Wheres the research that supports this. If it existed it would be out there front and center. Thos who are sexually abused do one of three things in general, self abuse, lead a tortured life of disablement (PTSD untreated) or lead a normal life after seeking therapy.
No David your excuse is not supported by the evidence, it's your justification for carrying out abuse of minors.
"David Pickup, a licensed family therapist in California and Texas, said in an interview on Wednesday that the president and gay rights advocates were purposely misconstruing the work that he and others do. He said that minors should never be forced into therapy, but he insisted that being gay was often brought about by serious emotional problems or sexual abuse."
Wheres the research that supports this. If it existed it would be out there front and center. Thos who are sexually abused do one of three things in general, self abuse, lead a tortured life of disablement (PTSD untreated) or lead a normal life after seeking therapy.
No David your excuse is not supported by the evidence, it's your justification for carrying out abuse of minors.
11
When a parent is responsible for their child they have the right, and are required to get them help with issues of sexuality, as they see fit. When the child with sexuality issues becomes an adult they ought to have an option of gender conversion therapy. Don't take options away.
1
No parent has the right to try to fundamentally change the way their child is. Using your logic, a parent could subject their child to a sex change operation if they were inclined to do so.
No parent has the right to inflict harm on a child and this kind of sham "treatment" is harmful.
No parent has the right to inflict harm on a child and this kind of sham "treatment" is harmful.
Hmm. Mental torture is OK up until the age of majority, and afterward the "adult" can decide to continue the torture.
Once again, right-wingers find a cruel solution to a problem that does not exist.
Once again, right-wingers find a cruel solution to a problem that does not exist.
Parents should not have the right to psychologically abuse their children just because they are parents. "Reparative" therapy forced on minors is abuse and should not be allowed any more than any other kind of physical child abuse, not even by parents.
4
Shameful political pandering made worse by the syrupy false compassion.
I guess now that he controls the healthcare industry he is now qualified to determine what is or is not medical care.
Here's a radical idea - let the medical professionals work through the complexities of helping people seeking healing from their gender dysphoria.
I guess now that he controls the healthcare industry he is now qualified to determine what is or is not medical care.
Here's a radical idea - let the medical professionals work through the complexities of helping people seeking healing from their gender dysphoria.
The American Psychiatric Association and every other reputable professional association has discredited reparative therapy completely. They are qualified to "determine what is or is not medical care," and now Obama agrees. It doesn't take a Harvard graduate to think critically and draw sound conclusions based on scientific fact.
The medical and psychological associations already condemn this so-called therapy. We have regulations that prohibit bleeding with leeches, too.
Conversion Therapy is quackery of the highest order parading as medical treatment for an illness.
It is entirely motivated by religious groups which have an agenda and find some lousy people with medical and professional licenses to push their agenda.
Being Gay or LGBT is not an illness. Deeply ingrained bigotry, bias, and fear might be considered an illness however – certainly an ill for society.
Ever wonder why no legitimate Medical, Psychological, Psychiatric, or Mental Health boards or organizations endorse or support this dangerous nonsense?
It should be illegal and the 'practitioners' should be held liable for their practice.
It is entirely motivated by religious groups which have an agenda and find some lousy people with medical and professional licenses to push their agenda.
Being Gay or LGBT is not an illness. Deeply ingrained bigotry, bias, and fear might be considered an illness however – certainly an ill for society.
Ever wonder why no legitimate Medical, Psychological, Psychiatric, or Mental Health boards or organizations endorse or support this dangerous nonsense?
It should be illegal and the 'practitioners' should be held liable for their practice.
14
I am stealing your response as it is a great one.
1
The sad thing is that, in this day and age, we still need the President make such a statement. What a savage society we must be if a sizable faction of us believe that not only conversion therapy works, but that it is even necessary.
23
You wonder why insurance companies agonize about covering mental health care, because the results of such care are unreliable and unpredictable. Substance abuse treatment alone does not produce lasting results, and just about everyone knows this is true. But this sort of treatment is coercive and possibly abusive. If only there was an FDA for psychotherapeutic approaches!
1
"The fight against such therapies has become more urgent in recent years as gay rights organizations have sought to discredit the practice."
Yes, and so has every credible medical organization in the nation including the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and American Academy of Pediatrics due to the substantial harm and complete inefficacy of the practice. It's nothing more than a sham medicinal practice.
Yes, and so has every credible medical organization in the nation including the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and American Academy of Pediatrics due to the substantial harm and complete inefficacy of the practice. It's nothing more than a sham medicinal practice.
5
Yes. but Obama's stance on LBGT issues are still all over the place.
The underlying truth is that Obama only spoke up in the press when it became politically clear the USA general public's attitudes where changing on the matter. Not a happy truth but there it is.
The underlying truth is that Obama only spoke up in the press when it became politically clear the USA general public's attitudes where changing on the matter. Not a happy truth but there it is.
1
I was once against gay marriage.
I changed my mind.
Most thinking human beings are capable of learning and adapting; others, like yourself, not so much.
I changed my mind.
Most thinking human beings are capable of learning and adapting; others, like yourself, not so much.
1
Maybe Obama evolved in his thinking as i have and obviously many other people have.
I believe one of the major reasons that the suicide rate is so high among this group is because they are struggling against their own desires as opposed to their biology. Wouldn't a reasonable person think that if they were born biologically female but their desire was to be a male, that their actual biological identity is a female? As far as surgical reassignment goes, you are way off into biological as well as psychological problems. As far as suicide goes, there is no one factor that causes a person to take their own life. It usually is a long series of things and is almost always a permanent action for what is usually a temporary issue.
5
You have never met one of these persons, have you?
As usual Obama is sticking his nose into things that are really not the business of the federal Government. Something that he knows little about except that it will resonate with his political base, and that he read a sad story about an individual in the newspaper. Well for Obama that's enough for him to get out his pen and his phone.
If the Psychological and Psychiatric associations who actually do know something about this have decided that the therapy is not helpful or harmful, they have the ability to decertify or sanction those that continue to practice it. President Obama, having little understanding of science or Medicine ( quite clear from his statements over the last 6 years) doesn't seem to realize that judging whether this type of therapy is actually harmful or just ineffective based on 1 patient that committed suicide is absurd. Gender identity is obviously not totally fixed, there are individuals that are bisexual that may choose one or the other role in the course of their lives. Let the experts in these fields decide what is and is not appropriate.
If the Psychological and Psychiatric associations who actually do know something about this have decided that the therapy is not helpful or harmful, they have the ability to decertify or sanction those that continue to practice it. President Obama, having little understanding of science or Medicine ( quite clear from his statements over the last 6 years) doesn't seem to realize that judging whether this type of therapy is actually harmful or just ineffective based on 1 patient that committed suicide is absurd. Gender identity is obviously not totally fixed, there are individuals that are bisexual that may choose one or the other role in the course of their lives. Let the experts in these fields decide what is and is not appropriate.
4
"If the Psychological and Psychiatric associations who actually do know something about this have decided that the therapy is not helpful or harmful, they have the ability to decertify or sanction those that continue to practice it."
Rob - Please do a little research. These gay conversion quacks = er, "therapists," operate OUTSIDE of the medical community and therefore are not regulated by it.
It these quacks attempted to operate in and were regulated by the medical community, they would be IMMEDIATELY shut down and put out of business for quackery.
Rob - Please do a little research. These gay conversion quacks = er, "therapists," operate OUTSIDE of the medical community and therefore are not regulated by it.
It these quacks attempted to operate in and were regulated by the medical community, they would be IMMEDIATELY shut down and put out of business for quackery.
Actually, taking a stand against the abuse of citizens IS the government's business. The federal government is sometimes the last, and only resort for persecuted minorities. And make no mistake, thes minors ARE being persecuted, and their local state governments are not I tervening as they should.
I have to disagree, churches, family, and silent pressure from society create tens of thousands of men to be "straight" when their heart and mind are not. Just check out Craigslist. The number of married men seeking other men is stunning. I won't even get into married men seeking transgender. A friend of mine worked on Wall Street and has now quit. He was successful at trading and made a good chunk of money. Why did you leave? I asked. "Simple he said, I work with homophobes most of whom are not straight either, (hence homophobic) I'm not straight and I had two choices, pretend I am like many of the guys, or quit and be myself. There's no way one can survive the culture there if one has a boyfriend." The culture of get a wife to climb the corporate ladder is teeming with gay men who identify as straight. Why single out a few whacky therapists when we as a society endorse corporate culture to demand men "turn straight" to be accepted in the culture of greed over decency. The latter seems like an issue we should tackle first.
5
Even in what most people think is one of the most progressive countries in the world, The Netherlands, religious people try to 'cure' these people. In the protestant-christian school where I gave my biology lessons before my retirement, somewhere in the late eighties, organisations that did this ideological inspired 'work' where invited to explain what they did and to invite people to support them.
This is a bittersweet victory but what a difference a few years makes. Three or four years ago, high school teachers in Montgomery County Public Schools (right outside the Nation's Capitol) were instructed to distribute pamphlets containing this toxic message to our students. Many of us were concerned that it could harm an emotionally fragile student grappling with his or her sexuality. A small group of us admitted on a "private" school forum to consciously ignoring this directive were scolded by administration and reported by an anonymous staff member to this group. The group, PFOX, got ahold of the emails and demanded that these teachers (there were about seven or eight of us) be required to attend a private training conducted by members of their group. Administration actually offered them some dates which were so inconvenient the group gave up. But not until they actually did meet with school administration about their concerns.
1
This is another example of those who refuse facts that they do not like. Too many use emotions in place of facts. The result is emotions overwhelming facts. This happens so frequently that it cheapens facts. That is wrong.
3
Can we also call for an end to gay conversion therapy?
We have to take a stand against all efforts to compel people to be something they are not. Just as it is disgusting, and unscientific, to convert LGBTQB people from what they were born with, it is just as disgusting pressuring heterosexual people to embrace other genders and preferences that they aren't inclined to. They were born that way and they have to live with it. They will just need to accept what they are and people, media and organizations shouldn't be allowed to try to make them special by convincing them they are something they weren't born to be.
We have to take a stand against all efforts to compel people to be something they are not. Just as it is disgusting, and unscientific, to convert LGBTQB people from what they were born with, it is just as disgusting pressuring heterosexual people to embrace other genders and preferences that they aren't inclined to. They were born that way and they have to live with it. They will just need to accept what they are and people, media and organizations shouldn't be allowed to try to make them special by convincing them they are something they weren't born to be.
2
???????
Straight-to-gay conversion? Never heard of it. No one WANTS to be gay and then becomes gay. It just happens. Who would choose to be an object of ridicule and hatred and a target for bullying and discrimination?
The idea of armies of gays waiting to "convert" the young is just another of those nasty myths
Straight-to-gay conversion? Never heard of it. No one WANTS to be gay and then becomes gay. It just happens. Who would choose to be an object of ridicule and hatred and a target for bullying and discrimination?
The idea of armies of gays waiting to "convert" the young is just another of those nasty myths
Could you provide the names and addresses of a couple of the groups which are promoting "gay conversion therapy"? I've never heard of it before.
I can't speak scientifically about this. But, my instinct, based on what I know of people who are gay or straight, is that I seriously doubt that it works. If heterosexuals can't imagine their own sexuality being changed by therapy, why should we imagine that homosexual feelings would be changed by it. We don't know if sexuality is programmed in us (we are born with a proclivity for one or the other or both) or a result of psychological factors, or some combination of the two, but, it seems to me it is pretty deep in there and primal. I'm not for a law against it yet, but, my gut is I don't like it and it is certainly something that should not be forced upon any young person. If people want to try when they are adults (whether that is a good idea of not and whether it works or not) would be their business.
5
I would sincerely ask why an individual who is attracted to and loves two persons and wants to form a committed union with both can not make this choice in our country. Is not the idea of "two" a culturally and religiously imposed idea that is limiting and offensive to those who love differently in terms of number of partners. If all three agree to this union why should only the traditional man-woman paradigm be liberated, and not the number paradigm? Why is marriage just about two and not three?
4
Is this a straw man argument? Are you really trying to set up an analogy between equal rights for gays and equal rights for bigamists? Gays just want the right to have what straights have already. Bigamists want something over and above. Having two spouses is (arithmetically, at least) twice as much as having one. But having one spouse is infinitely more than being obliged to remain unmarried.
1
• President Obama is calling for an end to such therapies aimed at “repairing” gay, lesbian and transgender YOUTH.*
• Mr. Pickup said he and others were actively lobbying against the proposed state bans, and he urged Mr. Obama to “wake up and understand the rights of people who he doesn’t know anything about and need his help...."
Operative word is 'YOUTH'. YOUTH have the right to be protected from ignorant religious fanatics, predators, snake-oil salesmen and quacks.
* EMPHASIS mine.
• Mr. Pickup said he and others were actively lobbying against the proposed state bans, and he urged Mr. Obama to “wake up and understand the rights of people who he doesn’t know anything about and need his help...."
Operative word is 'YOUTH'. YOUTH have the right to be protected from ignorant religious fanatics, predators, snake-oil salesmen and quacks.
* EMPHASIS mine.
10
22 men and women commit suicide daily that have served our armed forces, are we going to ban the military? Look at the cultural world we are leaving behind for our children. What is wrong with teaching your children about self control, and making choices, such as not to engage in sexual intercourse until you are married, whether you are gay or straight. We encourage our children to follow their sexual instincts when it comes to sexual matters, when we should warn our children of the dangers involved with sexual activity outside of marriage. I know gay men and women that were molested when they were children and have battled with their sexuality since, these people were not born gay, they were forced into sexual activity at a young age. Children also experiment with one another for pleasure and then believe they are gay or lesbian, trust me I know plenty of people who swing both ways just because of pleasure! It all boils down to children and sex! Children have parents to help guide them, protect them and teach them. A loving parent would not let their children eat poison, yet our society serves the poison up on a silver platter.
4
Uh? What? Incoherent drivel. Having been sexually abused and being homosexual are completely different things. By all means, let's prevent and eradicate sexual abuse whenever and wherever it happens. It's undoubtedly a terrible evil. But it has absolutely nothing--N-O-T-H-I-N-G--to do with pleasure or sex. Homosexuality is not a consequence of sexual trauma.
And you have a nice day!
There so called Christian radio shows that really think one can be converted. I know that Christian radio has some influence in Minnesota more than it should and are making millions off the unsuspecting members of their own community.
9
We have Jesus commercials in St. Louis. Pretty bad when they have to advertise there propaganda like soap and pharmaceuticals on T.V. at dinner time.
1
Really? I can't imagine that! The worst we get here is the local commercial for a church. That's enough for me.
Have the FDA rule that this is bogus, and no insurance payments will be allowed.
If people are going to torture and drive to suicide their own, (and quacks will be found to do it) do it on your own dime.
If people are going to torture and drive to suicide their own, (and quacks will be found to do it) do it on your own dime.
13
And/or maybe phase out these procedures (hormones, surgeries, etc.) which may be a misuse of the medical system.
1
"Conversion Therapy" is purely religion-based. It is NOT scientific. It must be BANNED nationally. It is harmful to the person who is often forced into conversion therapy. It is very similar exorcism.
20
Wrong. Conversion therapy is based on Behavior Modification. It is a legitimate part of many therapies and goes back to Pavlov and his dog. It may not be politically correct to modify the behavior of a gay, but the method is valid and has been used for everything from stopping smoking to brainwashing.
Next, the suicide rate among this group has been always been extremely high. There is no proof that therapy raises the rate. Studies in the Netherlands and other countries where homosexuality is considered a norm show no differences in suicide rates from countries that do not consider it normal.
Next, the suicide rate among this group has been always been extremely high. There is no proof that therapy raises the rate. Studies in the Netherlands and other countries where homosexuality is considered a norm show no differences in suicide rates from countries that do not consider it normal.
2
Smoking is very obviously not at all like sexuality.
Homosexuality is nowhere considered "a norm". And indeed, it *is* nowhere a norm because homosexuals are outnumbered by around 10:1.
Homosexuality is nowhere considered "a norm". And indeed, it *is* nowhere a norm because homosexuals are outnumbered by around 10:1.
Dear Starley Shelton,
You are comparing apples and oranges.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
Wow, a good move by Obama.
Still, only a half measure as the real goal is to keep religion out of such issues.
Whatever sexual orientation is, just like religion, a private matter and needs no guiding or even "correction" by clerics.
Still, only a half measure as the real goal is to keep religion out of such issues.
Whatever sexual orientation is, just like religion, a private matter and needs no guiding or even "correction" by clerics.
13
What has religion to do with anything. Homosexual behavior has been considered immoral by almost every culture, regardless of religion or lack thereof. From a medical point of view it is considered a risky behavior. Ask any urologist.
1
It is considered immoral by cultures that are in an upward growth pattern. As they deteriorate tolerance to immorality becomes one of the signs of that societal collapse along with destruction of the nuclear family, high taxes and highly self serving politicians with no goal but reelection and perqs. Just like the Greek and Roman empires.
Fine. For "religion" substitute "traditional cultural bigotry".
What does urology have to do with it? I think you're conflating homosexuality with anal sex. The former does not necessitate the latter; and the latter is not limited to the former. And by the way, we have condoms now...
What does urology have to do with it? I think you're conflating homosexuality with anal sex. The former does not necessitate the latter; and the latter is not limited to the former. And by the way, we have condoms now...
1
There are teachings that state "Do not do things to others that you find harmful to yourself.
And then there is religion.
And then there is religion.
15
That principle is just a restatement of the Golden Rule: 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.", which was brought to a primitive, uncivilized population BY RELIGION...
I'm not sure which is more disheartening: The breathtaking ignorance of the very real suffering of people who must interact with those whose ignorance is truly breathtaking, or the pandering to the vocal yet low-information crowd I just mentioned.
Transgender people attempt suicide at a rate ten times that of the average, not because they are sinful or making a bad choice, but because there are enough people in society who simply don't understand that human sexuality is more complex than a a bunch of shepherds in the Bronze Age knew. Because there's still sufficient bigotry and rejection that keeps them in the closet. Because their families may kick them out into the street simply for acknowledging who they are.
We know better - or, at least we should - but there's great comfort on scapegoating the victim. Besides, learning new things is hard. Willful ignorance, on the other hand, earns a pizza shop $800K while children go hungry.
I think its long past time we stop taking lessons in morality from people who think that emotional abuse is a medical treatment.
Transgender people attempt suicide at a rate ten times that of the average, not because they are sinful or making a bad choice, but because there are enough people in society who simply don't understand that human sexuality is more complex than a a bunch of shepherds in the Bronze Age knew. Because there's still sufficient bigotry and rejection that keeps them in the closet. Because their families may kick them out into the street simply for acknowledging who they are.
We know better - or, at least we should - but there's great comfort on scapegoating the victim. Besides, learning new things is hard. Willful ignorance, on the other hand, earns a pizza shop $800K while children go hungry.
I think its long past time we stop taking lessons in morality from people who think that emotional abuse is a medical treatment.
22
Check your facts. First, cultures religion is not necessary in order to find a behavior unacceptable. And failure to identify with your physical body is considered weird by every culture regardless of whether religious. And Scandinavian countries that accept homosexuality have the same rates of suicide among this group as the US. So blaming suicide on others acceptance does not appear supported by facts.
2
Your argument appears to be, "Other cultures treat such people badly so we should too".
Well, as an alternative, how about we *all* try to do a little better?
Perhaps you can post some links to show the "facts" that you would like us to check?
Well, as an alternative, how about we *all* try to do a little better?
Perhaps you can post some links to show the "facts" that you would like us to check?
Wonderfully put. Thank you.
Imagine that, a political leader who is willing to change his perspective on a controversial social matter and to actually evolve before our eyes. Lets hope a few or even a lot of culturally conservative Republicans can show the same courage to similarly evolve.
24
This is also called "saying whatever I have to to get elected".
1
You are forgetting that the definition of a politician is someone who finds a bandwagon and elbows his/her way to the front.
Let's not exhaust ourselves praising Obama merely for speaking out against this primitive practice. His willingness to discuss this with 'both parties' shows he still hasn't learned that the supporters of conversion therapy, with god on their side, are incapable of compromise.
If he truly wanted to take meaningful steps he could 1) withhold tax-exempt status from any church sponsoring such child abuse until they change their ways 2) have the FBI raid any 'therapist' during a de-homonisation session. With enough of these 'therapists' led out in handcuffs (in front of cameras) the practice would abolish itself.
If he truly wanted to take meaningful steps he could 1) withhold tax-exempt status from any church sponsoring such child abuse until they change their ways 2) have the FBI raid any 'therapist' during a de-homonisation session. With enough of these 'therapists' led out in handcuffs (in front of cameras) the practice would abolish itself.
14
This is something we should have done years or even decades ago. "Reparative" therapy is a fraud, pure and simple. Subjecting individuals to this "treatment" is flat-out wrong.
11
Under what authority? Is this a royal decree? Go away Obama.
7
Oh please. Enough with this king nonsense. He's either ineffective or a dictator, pick one.
What I don't get is all you guys defending this insidious junk science. It's harmful. It's not therapy. People asked for the president's rather large megaphone to help them stop it. He didn't put the practitioners in jail. He encouraged people to do the right thing. And yet he's a king. Pathetic.
What I don't get is all you guys defending this insidious junk science. It's harmful. It's not therapy. People asked for the president's rather large megaphone to help them stop it. He didn't put the practitioners in jail. He encouraged people to do the right thing. And yet he's a king. Pathetic.
14
It's called leadership.
7
Under the executive powers of the constitution. Settle down.
These right wing extremists make me ill.
22
Malpractice. This can happen in more professions than can be imagined. Does not mean that it should be banned.
There should be a choice. The person himself/ herself should choose to participate in the therapies. Encouragement by parents should not reach past that.
On the other hand, when we are children, we depend solely on our parents, who would supposedly know better, to give us our food, medicine, without us knowing whats good and whats not. Total trust as children is what we have.
Children may refuse a certain type of food and this would be fine, but this is sometimes not just food they may refuse. It maybe all kinds of food. It is that time that parents need to try with all their effort, to take that any food, out of fear, the child may suffer malnutrition. It maybe also therapy, which they think is good for their children.
Government intervention in household matters doesn't always have a positive turnout. So does are family decisions.
Both make mistakes, both sides are human. No one's perfect.
There should be a choice. The person himself/ herself should choose to participate in the therapies. Encouragement by parents should not reach past that.
On the other hand, when we are children, we depend solely on our parents, who would supposedly know better, to give us our food, medicine, without us knowing whats good and whats not. Total trust as children is what we have.
Children may refuse a certain type of food and this would be fine, but this is sometimes not just food they may refuse. It maybe all kinds of food. It is that time that parents need to try with all their effort, to take that any food, out of fear, the child may suffer malnutrition. It maybe also therapy, which they think is good for their children.
Government intervention in household matters doesn't always have a positive turnout. So does are family decisions.
Both make mistakes, both sides are human. No one's perfect.
4
"The fight against such therapies has become more urgent in recent years as gay rights organizations have sought to discredit the practice." This sentence is disingenuous. It is not just advocacy groups who have "sought" to discredit this bogus practice. Numerous mental health organizations have already determined that it is harmful pseudo-science with zero therapeutic value. Why must the Times use such language, as though there were an argument. There is none. These therapies are junk, and they result in suffering. There is no serious debate here. Be honest and report the facts. Do not tailor your language to placate the ignorant.
19
Get the government out of people's private lives! This includes their desire to change their sexual orientation. It's hardly Mr Obama's role or responsibility as president to care or comment on this issue. I remember he was once asked when he thought life began and he responded that knowing the answer was above his pay scale or job description or words to that effect. The same applies in this case! It's not the government's responsibility to tell it's citizens whether or not they should seek or avoid this psychological therapy, or any other for that matter.
7
That cute standard reply would stand if conservatives and libertarians would ask themselves why we all should pay, thru insurance. etc., for something that does not work and does harm.
This therapy is practiced by religious based therapists and should stay in the religious organization and out of our pocketbooks.
This therapy is practiced by religious based therapists and should stay in the religious organization and out of our pocketbooks.
10
When parents are intentionally harming their children, driving them to suicide, it is the role of government to step in.
17
I agree totally with the opening sentence.
I don't agree with using the contraction IT'S when the possessive pronoun ITS is indicated.
I don't agree with using the contraction IT'S when the possessive pronoun ITS is indicated.
3
Thanks to President Obama for seeing the light and having the courage to change and support the end of this kind of abuse.
My response to Mr. Pickup is that when a child has been emotionally and sexually abused they've been stripped of their power. To force them to bow to their parent's wishes is to abuse them all over again.
And for it to be done by a figure of authority, under the guise of 'help and compassion' and 'this is what God wants' is twisted. It's mental and emotional rape: exploitation of a child when they're at their most vulnerable. There's no difference between this and a therapist sexually exploiting a patient who has asked for help in dealing with having been raped as a child.
The only thing to do is to embrace the child with understanding and compassion and to truly hear their story, to provide protection from parents who care more about their religion than their child’s anguish, and to deal summarily with the abuser in a way that the child can clearly see they have done nothing wrong.
Stop looking at what the parents need. Look at what the child needs and attend to those needs until the child is healed. Letting them make their own choices is a vital part of the healing process.
My response to Mr. Pickup is that when a child has been emotionally and sexually abused they've been stripped of their power. To force them to bow to their parent's wishes is to abuse them all over again.
And for it to be done by a figure of authority, under the guise of 'help and compassion' and 'this is what God wants' is twisted. It's mental and emotional rape: exploitation of a child when they're at their most vulnerable. There's no difference between this and a therapist sexually exploiting a patient who has asked for help in dealing with having been raped as a child.
The only thing to do is to embrace the child with understanding and compassion and to truly hear their story, to provide protection from parents who care more about their religion than their child’s anguish, and to deal summarily with the abuser in a way that the child can clearly see they have done nothing wrong.
Stop looking at what the parents need. Look at what the child needs and attend to those needs until the child is healed. Letting them make their own choices is a vital part of the healing process.
13
I still don't know what causes a person to enter into a relationship with another person of the same gender?
the common belief seems to be that people are "born gay"?
That is a weak prognosis in my opinion.
because if people are truly "born gay" wouldn't that mean straight couples that start families are really gay or bi sexual?
it also begs the question how is it that a certain percentage of people are "born straight" while a smaller percentage are "born gay"?
it Just does not make sense.
therefore the only logical conclusion to this debate is that being gay is a choice?
people chose to give into unnatural desires and then when they see that the Majority of straight people refuse to accept their "choice" They then complain and accuse them of being so called "homophobic"
all because they want the majority to accept the unnatural choice they have made with regards to relationships with people of the same gender.
also by using the excuse of being born gay
that in my view is an attempt to discard responsibility for the choices we make in life.
no one is born to be gay.
we are born to reproduce with the opposite sex
That is a fact that no one can argue against.
the attraction between gay people stems from the heart.
and if the heart felt desire is not challenged
then the person gives in and ignores their conscience and forces themselves to believe the illusion that they have no control over the choices they make.
the common belief seems to be that people are "born gay"?
That is a weak prognosis in my opinion.
because if people are truly "born gay" wouldn't that mean straight couples that start families are really gay or bi sexual?
it also begs the question how is it that a certain percentage of people are "born straight" while a smaller percentage are "born gay"?
it Just does not make sense.
therefore the only logical conclusion to this debate is that being gay is a choice?
people chose to give into unnatural desires and then when they see that the Majority of straight people refuse to accept their "choice" They then complain and accuse them of being so called "homophobic"
all because they want the majority to accept the unnatural choice they have made with regards to relationships with people of the same gender.
also by using the excuse of being born gay
that in my view is an attempt to discard responsibility for the choices we make in life.
no one is born to be gay.
we are born to reproduce with the opposite sex
That is a fact that no one can argue against.
the attraction between gay people stems from the heart.
and if the heart felt desire is not challenged
then the person gives in and ignores their conscience and forces themselves to believe the illusion that they have no control over the choices they make.
8
That is not the what the vast majority of all the health sciences say. You do harm by repeating it.
4
"it Just does not make sense.
therefore the only logical [sic] conclusion to this debate is that being gay is a choice?"
"That is a fact that no one can argue against."
[CITATIONS NEEDED]
therefore the only logical [sic] conclusion to this debate is that being gay is a choice?"
"That is a fact that no one can argue against."
[CITATIONS NEEDED]
7
None of your arguments make sense. How does a straight couple starting a family have anything to do with being gay? And you ask how is it that some people are born gay and a larger group are born straight? You say this makes no sense. But ask yourself how is it that a small percentage of people are born with red hair and the rest aren't?
10
What is Obama's position on bloodletting, voodoo, and exorcism? Should government outlaw these forms of therapy. too? Many alternative methods of treatment are scoffed at, but they are permitted as cultural expressions which embrace tribal and religious values. I believe conversion therapy falls into the same category and should not be banned in the name of political correctness. It seems that Obama believes government should meddle into everything, and lately in the waning days of his presidency he has been opining on various subjects including his daughter's asthma as something which he believes can be related to climate change, but this too is arguably cultural and political in nature and not just a scientific topic. Is he supposed to be some sort of shaman and the source of all wisdom? Evidently nothing is sacred or sacrosanct to him, but he must get his hands all over it.
10
Not to worry Ed, when Mr Cruz gets his mitts on power, there'll be plenty of meddling in your personal life....
5
"What is Obama's position on bloodletting, voodoo, and exorcism? Should government outlaw these forms of therapy. too?" Yes, if they cause actual harm as conversion therapy does. This is not 'political correctness' but the broad based consensus of mental health professionals who know a lot more than you do Ed. This is why we have regulations to protect Americans from medical treatments that can harm them. It is an important and needed role of government and I'm glad it's there.
3
But your insurance is not paying for bloodletting, voodoo. and exorcism. If it was taken of the list of reimbursed practices, it would have to go back to the religious councilors where it belongs.
5
The first thing a therapist should do is listen, without religious or any other kind of ideology. Yes, there are young people who are confused and not really gay. Yes, there are gay people who knew they were gay as soon as they knew anything. Yes, there are transgender people. A therapist who can't listen long enough to figure out which is which should take up some other profession. Sometimes all a therapist ever has to do is listen, without commenting.
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
8
As always Obama is motivated by politics not principle. His position on "gay marriage" and other LGBT issues evolved after he was safely reelected. I read a report showing transgenders like the boy in the article continue to have a suicide rate 20 times higher then the general population. Clearly indulging these troubled individuals is not the answer. I also wonder why Obama wishes to interfere in what goes on in American families. What gay and transgender youths do once they leave their parents home is their business. But while they live under the parents roof and are being supported by those parents they are subject to their parents rules.
10
I wonder why transgenders have a suicide rate 20 times higher than the general population? Could one of the factors be the people treating them as "troubled individuals"?
4
You know what, Lindy? I have a transgender daughter. While is she under my roof--and long after she is out on her own--her life is her own. No one, parent or otherwise, owns another's identity.
Attitudes like yours are why the trans population are at such high risk for violence, including suicide.
I am proud of my president. And my daughter.
Attitudes like yours are why the trans population are at such high risk for violence, including suicide.
I am proud of my president. And my daughter.
18
Just because you are a minor does not mean a parent can harm you with impunity. The problem I have with your opinion Lindy is that it is not informed but based on your feelings about the issue. Do a bit of research on conversion therapy and you'll see it is harmful. Allowing parents to force their children into such treatment is tantamount to child abuse.
8
"A 17-year-old transgender youth, Leelah Alcorn, stunned her friends and a vast Internet audience in December when she threw herself in front of a tractor-trailer after writing in an online suicide note that religious therapists had tried to convert her back to being a boy." If you are born male, you are a male all of your life. You can wear female clothes, call yourself by a female name, but you are still a male.
11
Sex and gender are not the same
1
"If you are born male, you are a male all of your life. You can wear female clothes, call yourself by a female name, but you are still a male."
Amazingly, some people disagree with you about that.
Amazingly, some people disagree with you about that.
Semantics. You are conflating sex and gender, biology and psychology. Are you doing so for honest ignorance, or deliberately to rationalize what it is comfortable for you to believe?
2
LGBT is the way people are born, it is who they are... it is not a "lifestyle" it is people's lives and there is no "cure", because there is nothing wrong with being LGBT, it is a natural state of human existence.
Reparative Therapy is pure sleazy snake oil sold by abject charlatans milking money out of junk science and superstition and has caused immense harm to LGBT people. It is nothing short of torturing innocent people for the way they were born. It is a fraudulent quack cure in search of a disease which doesn't exist.
The only "slippery slope" is in allowing this barbaric torture to continue unabated and be foisted on innocent lives. Essentially Reparative Therapy is people deliberately harming innocent folks for the way they were born via a dangerous therapy, based on someone's religion and ideology which both are matters of pure choice.
Reparative Therapy is pure sleazy snake oil sold by abject charlatans milking money out of junk science and superstition and has caused immense harm to LGBT people. It is nothing short of torturing innocent people for the way they were born. It is a fraudulent quack cure in search of a disease which doesn't exist.
The only "slippery slope" is in allowing this barbaric torture to continue unabated and be foisted on innocent lives. Essentially Reparative Therapy is people deliberately harming innocent folks for the way they were born via a dangerous therapy, based on someone's religion and ideology which both are matters of pure choice.
15
So you are saying that wearing dresses is a predisposition. Sorry, gender clothing styles and even behavior is based on societal custom.
Sadly, I had not known of the petition until I read this story. When I went to do so, the petition was closed. Maybe the Times could report on things like this a little earlier?
2
Likely their "successes" are either folks who are actually bi-sexual to begin with or folks who end up deluding themselves out of desperation because of the rejection they get from their sub-culture including family and church (rejection in terms of messages that they are damaged and/or making poor 'choices').
7
I am old enough to remember when gays and lesbians were given electroshock therapy in order to "cure" them. When I was a small child, chemical castration (as was done to Alan Turing) was in vogue. In some countries in Africa, lesbians are subjected to "corrective rape." And in many parts of Africa and the Middle East, gays and lesbians are murdered.
Why is it that such a large percentage of heterosexuals are so insecure about their sexuality, and so cruel toward anyone who doesn't conform to their stereotypes? Perhaps it is these "straight" people who need reparative therapy.
Why is it that such a large percentage of heterosexuals are so insecure about their sexuality, and so cruel toward anyone who doesn't conform to their stereotypes? Perhaps it is these "straight" people who need reparative therapy.
23
you can't talk anybody out of her/his natural inclinations. i wanted to reply to one of the seemingly reasonable people who posted that a few same sex experiences do not a gay or lesbian make. i know plenty of lesbians with children from their heterosexual marriages--what adrienne rich called "compulsory heterosexuality." i am glad that obama wants to get rid of this ridiculous practice (of praying the gay away). (preying is more accurate.)
13
Thank you President Obama---this is an important step in putting to rest this most heinous and deceitful "therapy". No republican would have the guts to lead as you have. Bravo !
9
so nice! news to remind me that this is indeed the 21st century; not the 7th century some misguided people out there would prefer it to be.
11
SL
The Mr. and Mrs. Pickups have always existed and the author Somerset Maugham, a homosexual, was to write a brilliant profile of them in his little known novel 'The Hero' which ends badly.
Compassionate, kind and gentle folk, he goes on to describe how underneath their many acts of good faith and patriotism, they are rigid minded, cold and self-serving people who with their religious views are the cause of damage to others, and the virtues they expect from their young ones are enough to send chills down one's spine.
The President has no time to waste and will make short shift of these 'well-meaning' persons among our midst who interfere, and brings to my mind this early morning the death of a childhood friend at Rikers Island, a privileged young man, a homosexual who took his life and might have been alive today had it not been for the ill-measured acts of his circle of supporters who abandoned him into the hands of the law.
The Mr. and Mrs. Pickups have always existed and the author Somerset Maugham, a homosexual, was to write a brilliant profile of them in his little known novel 'The Hero' which ends badly.
Compassionate, kind and gentle folk, he goes on to describe how underneath their many acts of good faith and patriotism, they are rigid minded, cold and self-serving people who with their religious views are the cause of damage to others, and the virtues they expect from their young ones are enough to send chills down one's spine.
The President has no time to waste and will make short shift of these 'well-meaning' persons among our midst who interfere, and brings to my mind this early morning the death of a childhood friend at Rikers Island, a privileged young man, a homosexual who took his life and might have been alive today had it not been for the ill-measured acts of his circle of supporters who abandoned him into the hands of the law.
Just one of many areas where CHINO (Christians in Name Only) have forced their dogma on others. Other examples of CHINO refusals to react to both science and/or reality:
Evolution
Climate Change influence by humans and fossil fuel overload.
Womens' right to choose their own health options.
The equal rights to marry the who one loves regardless of gender.
We would be a lot better off if these hypocrites suddenly started actually living and following the example of the man they profess to worship and obey, a man nsmed Jesus.
Evolution
Climate Change influence by humans and fossil fuel overload.
Womens' right to choose their own health options.
The equal rights to marry the who one loves regardless of gender.
We would be a lot better off if these hypocrites suddenly started actually living and following the example of the man they profess to worship and obey, a man nsmed Jesus.
9
Another sample of the delusional left; the ever "tolerant" left. You read a story about a religious organization, specific church that claims Christianity as their religion, or a profession with religious ties, and subsequently typecast "Christians" with a cute acronym "CHINO"...
Bruce, and any other liberal reading this: I am a practicing Catholic Christian, and none of the political talking-points you listed have anything to do with my faith in Christ and God the Father. Liberals chant their mantra of "separation of church and state!!" but are the first ones to bring up religion in terms of political matters. Please Bruce, and all others like you, cease to tell me what political/sociological/environmental beliefs I have based upon my religious affiliation. You and your liberal allies claim to be advocates of tolerance and freedom of expression - how about you and others like you cease the hypocrisy of claiming tolerance and freedom of expression as your banner while simultaneously berating those you don't agree with or understand?
Thank you!
Bruce, and any other liberal reading this: I am a practicing Catholic Christian, and none of the political talking-points you listed have anything to do with my faith in Christ and God the Father. Liberals chant their mantra of "separation of church and state!!" but are the first ones to bring up religion in terms of political matters. Please Bruce, and all others like you, cease to tell me what political/sociological/environmental beliefs I have based upon my religious affiliation. You and your liberal allies claim to be advocates of tolerance and freedom of expression - how about you and others like you cease the hypocrisy of claiming tolerance and freedom of expression as your banner while simultaneously berating those you don't agree with or understand?
Thank you!
Thanks. Mr. President for being the lone, sane voice in this stupid argument!! Too bad I can't vote for you, a third time!!
8
I'm going to critique this article, as a mental health counselor: one, there is absolutely no mention that the American Psychiatric and Psychological Associations have already discredited this form of so-called "therapy." Two, the very foundation of a therapist (counselor or social worker, marriage and family therapist or psychologist) is to "do no harm:" as it is with doctors, and therefore, psychiatry. This is a false therapy which has been discredited as unethical, at best, and may be important information that could be useful to many readers.
Any counselor, marriage and family therapist, social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist that entertains the idea of "conversion therapy" is in essence, a charlatan. Because of this,I take offense at the generic use of the term "therapist" and "therapy" used in this article to discuss the agenda of hate and fear that is being spread in the guise of my what therapy is: which is nonjudgmental and bound by the ethics and laws of each practitioners field and state that they reside and practice in.
Please do more research and less filler the next time an article is written on this. My God, I just found out myself that the Southern Poverty Law Center has a page on this false "therapy."
Any counselor, marriage and family therapist, social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist that entertains the idea of "conversion therapy" is in essence, a charlatan. Because of this,I take offense at the generic use of the term "therapist" and "therapy" used in this article to discuss the agenda of hate and fear that is being spread in the guise of my what therapy is: which is nonjudgmental and bound by the ethics and laws of each practitioners field and state that they reside and practice in.
Please do more research and less filler the next time an article is written on this. My God, I just found out myself that the Southern Poverty Law Center has a page on this false "therapy."
10
I believe he meant banning forced conversion. Not voluntary... Or would you ban a voluntary action?
1
Obama calls for an end to speech he doesn't like.
3
What speech has he called for an end to?
6
@ Bruce. Discussions with a therapist. Read the article. If Obama didn't know Bergdahl was a traitor before trading 5 terrorists for him (despite a report from 2009 saying so), I guarantee you he doesn't have a clue about what these therapies entail or what causes kids with sexual identity issues to kill themselves. He came across a tragic anecdote that scores him political points with the left, and he pounces on it (As he's demonstrated throughout his tenure). He's the president; not a licsensed therapist or doctor, but he's more than willing to give his opinion; which is as worthless as mine or yours (since we don't have any real knowledge of these therapies or formal education in therapy/medicine in general).
"Obama calls for an end to speech he doesn't like."
Yes. Except, no.
Yes. Except, no.
Once again Obama reveals he is the president of all Americans. Thank you Pres. Obama for having the courage to keep your word by responding to a WhiteHouse.gov petition and supporting efforts that will ban the use of conversion therapy.
America and especially Mr. Pickup need to listen to "Popeye" the sailor man when he states, "I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam. A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah!"
I know I'm showing my age.
America and especially Mr. Pickup need to listen to "Popeye" the sailor man when he states, "I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam. A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah!"
I know I'm showing my age.
15
There are shades of Alan Turing's treatment here... (look it up)
I must admit that I was shocked to read this article. I thought this misguided,"well-meaning" nonsense had long ago been consigned to the scrap-heap of religious idiocy, along with all the other forms of zealous persecution.
How - other than through religious "certainty" (and hypocrisy) - can humans still so badly misunderstand the human psyche?
Mr Obama's announcement is certainly welcome, but not nearly strong enough. His statement should include a demand for immediate cessation of this barbarism; and a congressional inquiry into those practicing - or advocating it.
I must admit that I was shocked to read this article. I thought this misguided,"well-meaning" nonsense had long ago been consigned to the scrap-heap of religious idiocy, along with all the other forms of zealous persecution.
How - other than through religious "certainty" (and hypocrisy) - can humans still so badly misunderstand the human psyche?
Mr Obama's announcement is certainly welcome, but not nearly strong enough. His statement should include a demand for immediate cessation of this barbarism; and a congressional inquiry into those practicing - or advocating it.
32
in answer to your reasonable question, these people have no interest in understanding anything, let alone the human psyche. 'Think' is not part of the deal here.
But, even though I agree with your basic opinion, and would like to see this practice blown off the face of the Earth, I have to say that banning it congressionally would be sliding us down a slippery slope of our right to choose to do stupid things. I mean, I do not believe in voodoo, as another commenter wrote, but we must be very careful about legislating ourselves into freedom-less drones doing nothing but trying to get around laws.
Education, education and more education, speaking out, etc. play a large role here, and this too, will change.
But, even though I agree with your basic opinion, and would like to see this practice blown off the face of the Earth, I have to say that banning it congressionally would be sliding us down a slippery slope of our right to choose to do stupid things. I mean, I do not believe in voodoo, as another commenter wrote, but we must be very careful about legislating ourselves into freedom-less drones doing nothing but trying to get around laws.
Education, education and more education, speaking out, etc. play a large role here, and this too, will change.
Obama's stance presents a slippery slope. His advocacy is based upon the premise that those who oppose homosexuality are bigotted rather than having a religous belief. Does reparative therapy cause suicide, or is it the depression that some transgender youth experience? Does reparative therapy cause or worsen depression among transgender teens? This could be a slippery slope - will we reach a point where parents will not be able to have much say in how they raise their kids in terms of sexual orientation, even if they don't utilize reparative therapy? Will it one day be against the law for parents, to tell their kids that they don't approve of their kid's LGBT orientation or lifestyle? What about religious homeschooling parents? Will these parents be outlawed in the future from attempting to shield their kids from influences which they believe will influence the sexual orientation of their kids, in a way that they don't approve of? Will this lead to a slippery slope where the state has the power to put forth the viewpoint to children that LGBT sexual orientations are ok? Barack Obama premises his advocacy on the expressed opinion that LGBT sexual orientation is based on love. Well what if someone disagrees with Obama's definition of "love"? Is this ok, or will this disagreement be outlawed?
17
Citizen2013: Often, religious belief is bigotry wrapped in piety.
9
Citizen, if by parents having much say in "how they raise their kids in terms f sexual orientation", do you mean that parents can select or attempt to override their kid's sexual orientation? If so, you are promoting the fallacious belief that sexual orientation is selected. All reliable research (i.e., peer reviewed by physicians and psychiatrists/psychologists, etc) says that sexual orientation is not selected.
I have never understood why some people think that a gay man or lesbian person would deliberately choose a sexual orientation that leaves them subject to scorn, harassment of all kinds, assault, and even murder, as well as leaving them open to discrimination in employment, housing, and in other areas. It really doesn't make sense that someone would choose those risks.
You speak of "orientation" or "lifestyle". Sexual identity is not an orientation or lifestyle, any more than gender, race, height, eye color are orientations or lifestyles. As for lifestyles, there are LGBT people with quiet lifestyles, jobs, families, church, wardrobes, and so on. Others choose a more flamboyant life style in dress and public behavior. Those are choices, just like some heterosexuals choose to be white collar types, dress conservatively, attend church, raise families, and other heterosexuals join motorcycle gangs or start rock groups.
After all, Citizen, did you "choose" to be heterosexual? I know I didn't "choose", I just am heterosexual.
I have never understood why some people think that a gay man or lesbian person would deliberately choose a sexual orientation that leaves them subject to scorn, harassment of all kinds, assault, and even murder, as well as leaving them open to discrimination in employment, housing, and in other areas. It really doesn't make sense that someone would choose those risks.
You speak of "orientation" or "lifestyle". Sexual identity is not an orientation or lifestyle, any more than gender, race, height, eye color are orientations or lifestyles. As for lifestyles, there are LGBT people with quiet lifestyles, jobs, families, church, wardrobes, and so on. Others choose a more flamboyant life style in dress and public behavior. Those are choices, just like some heterosexuals choose to be white collar types, dress conservatively, attend church, raise families, and other heterosexuals join motorcycle gangs or start rock groups.
After all, Citizen, did you "choose" to be heterosexual? I know I didn't "choose", I just am heterosexual.
9
I find your post deeply troubling and displays a deep misunderstanding of human life. Sexual orientation isn't a choice and it isn't for parents to approve or disapprove of it.
7
Thank you, President Obama. One small step...
21
I am against Obama on his gender identity therapy stance base on personal freedom ground (read my other comment) but I support his unisex restroom initiative. I have for the past 15 years advocating for unisex restroom after seeing one in Ally McBeal.
An unisex restroom is much more efficient as often men's room have unoccupied stalls while women's room have a long line. An unisex restroom would mean all stalls are fully utilized and both sex waits on the same line and therefore do away with gender disparity.
Taking a step further. If we can do away with this Victorian era gender-separation mindset, all urinal and stalls should be removed and space utilized for toilet installation. Back in ancient Greece and Rome, public toilets are unisex with no separation between "seats". There were no fear of being see by the other gender because both gender already seen hundred of the opposite gender.
Allowing for full space utilization, an unisex restroom will be at least marginally more efficient than men's room and likely 125% more efficient than ladies' room. It will also have less chance of being dirty or ran out of hand towel.
An unisex restroom is much more efficient as often men's room have unoccupied stalls while women's room have a long line. An unisex restroom would mean all stalls are fully utilized and both sex waits on the same line and therefore do away with gender disparity.
Taking a step further. If we can do away with this Victorian era gender-separation mindset, all urinal and stalls should be removed and space utilized for toilet installation. Back in ancient Greece and Rome, public toilets are unisex with no separation between "seats". There were no fear of being see by the other gender because both gender already seen hundred of the opposite gender.
Allowing for full space utilization, an unisex restroom will be at least marginally more efficient than men's room and likely 125% more efficient than ladies' room. It will also have less chance of being dirty or ran out of hand towel.
1
So you don't agree with the President's stance on getting rid of "conversion therapy" which makes young people suicidal due to being made to feel there is something wrong with them for being born gay or transgender? But you devote four paragraphs to promoting unisex bathrooms so you don't have the inconvenience of ever running out of hand towels...way to get your priorities in order.
32
Carol,
It is the well measured, reasoned and thoughtful comments such as yours and others, that are inspiring this American to write and thank the President with appreciation for everything he is doing.
It is the well measured, reasoned and thoughtful comments such as yours and others, that are inspiring this American to write and thank the President with appreciation for everything he is doing.
4
Weird, huh. I believe the subject is a virtual hallucinogen.
1
As much as I'd like to see conversion therapy outlawed, I don't think it will happen. The practice will be renamed "exorcism" and given cover as a religious practice.
20
No GOP president would ever have the courage to stand up for these victims of abuse. Sadly, we can't have four more years of Obama. We should try to get someone just like him--patient, empathetic, courageous, smart, wise, willing to stand up to injustice.
52
He couldn't be reelected for a third term. It's Obama fatigue. I wish he would just go gently into political oblivion and let us forget him, but lately he has been acting like he thinks he's the font of all wisdom. Time to turn it all off.
1
As always, leading from behind. The man is about as weak and spinless as they come.
1
Yeah! Leading from behind while promoting an agenda that the commenters who disagree see as a vast overreach. Oh is there nothing this president can do that will satisfy the knee-jerk right? Maybe he should just endorse the GOP candidate in 2016 to see just how confused these people are.
1
This is huge.
A friend of mine was forced to go to one of these awful "reparative therapy" programs as a child (to fix his "gender confusion," as they called it). His parents sent him because they were afraid and thought they could fix him. The abuse he took on as an 8 year old is something he remembers vividly almost 30 years later.
A friend of mine was forced to go to one of these awful "reparative therapy" programs as a child (to fix his "gender confusion," as they called it). His parents sent him because they were afraid and thought they could fix him. The abuse he took on as an 8 year old is something he remembers vividly almost 30 years later.
38
Why were the parents and the counselor not reported for "abuse"? Because it was not "abuse"?
4
While I know nothing more than the short one paragraph I would assume that the parents and counselor were not reported for abuse because most 8 year old wouldn't know the first thing about how to report such abuse. Secondly, perhaps 30 years later, as an adult he simply chooses not to relive the abuse which a lawsuit would no doubt rekindle.
Either way, if the child simply hadn't been exposed to such hocus pocus to begin with we wouldn't be having this conversation. Hopefully we will soon see an end to such nonsense as "Conversion Therapy".
Either way, if the child simply hadn't been exposed to such hocus pocus to begin with we wouldn't be having this conversation. Hopefully we will soon see an end to such nonsense as "Conversion Therapy".
3
Charles: 200 years ago or so slavery was not considered wrong in many (most) quarters.
6
If a gay person wants counciling in the hopes of no longer being gay who is Barack Obama to tell him he can't have it?
9
That assumes the person wants the counseling in the first place - a choice so many teenagers, like Leelah Alcorn, are never given.
8
There's a key phrase you missed "... for minors..." Of course if a consenting adult wants any sort of dubious therapy done on them, that's between them and their therapist.
31
Why would anyone want "counciling" to change who they are unless someone first convinced them that there is something wrong with who they are? Like religious bigots, for example. If anyone needs reparative therapy it is them.
24
David Pickup is the one who needs to "wake up and understand the rights of people who he doesn’t know anything about and need his help and need his compassion.” Kudos to President Obama to bring attention to lgbt people being victimized by these barbaric, Middle Ages "therapies".
31
Why is the government trying to stop people from having an option? I am not going to go into whether or not there is any merit of "sexuality correction therapy" because I don't know but I do know some people seek out those therapy and it is not the government's place to deny them access.
I have long been an advocate for abortion, gender equality (not feminism) and transgender right and on this issue my stand is the same as it has always been, on the side of liberty and freedom. People can choose to go or not go. They can choose to believe they were born this way or they are sick. It is their right and the government should stay out of their life.
I have long been an advocate for abortion, gender equality (not feminism) and transgender right and on this issue my stand is the same as it has always been, on the side of liberty and freedom. People can choose to go or not go. They can choose to believe they were born this way or they are sick. It is their right and the government should stay out of their life.
12
The problem with this is that it's often not the transgendered or gay people who are choosing to undertake these courses; it's their families (read: parents) forcing them into these forms of harmful therapies as a means of controlling their children or by some form of misguided religious belief system. A 16 year old needs protection from their own families as much as they do from these quacks and religious nuts.
12
Because vulnerable people require protections from abuse. The young person who is mentioned in the first paragraph clearly felt they didn't have the choice that you believe existed. Sometimes what people need isn't 'freedom to' but rather 'freedom from.' The conviction with which you write leads me to surmise that you have never felt truly vulnerable in your life situation, but I would urge a position of compassion in this case.
20
Should people have the "option" of visiting a quack doctor who is peddling a poisonous snake oil? Reparative therapy is intrinsically harmful and is often forced on young people, who wind up killing themselves.
19
Homosexuality is not a choice anymore than heterosexuality is a choice. And I've never believed that one can "pray the gay away." This is fact. Respected psychiatrists and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders does not treat nor does it consider the love of two men or two women as a disorder. But I don't need the DSM to tell me what history clearly shows us about the positive contributions that gays and lesbians have contributed for the benefit of all mankind.
I respect and admire this President for his moral courage and willingness to defend and support individuals and groups here and abroad who have been marginalized for too long. And this is coming from a straight white male who is confident and comfortable with who I am.
God bless you President Obama. I will always admire your courage and your decency.
I respect and admire this President for his moral courage and willingness to defend and support individuals and groups here and abroad who have been marginalized for too long. And this is coming from a straight white male who is confident and comfortable with who I am.
God bless you President Obama. I will always admire your courage and your decency.
56
Thank you.
3
This needs to goto a federal court immediately. This is torture and to allow another day of it, is inhuman. The people who claim religion gives them this right should be guaranteed to spend 20 years in prison if not more.
21
No offense to the President, but this seems a little outside his area of expertise. It seems strange that he would be advising psychiatrists on how to counsel their patients.
15
The diagnostic manual that psychiatrists use has not listed homosexuality as a disorder in nearly 40 years. The president knows this. Anyone who holds themselves out as a therapist should be aware of this. And yet somehow there are people out there who claim to be therapists who claim they can help gay and transgender people "heal" themselves. It is LONG overdue for the law to protect LGBT people from others who can't even follow proper diagnostic procedure.
25
President Obama's area of expertise is leadership. And he has done that on this issue (and many many others). He is well briefed on the issue and cognisant of the political and religious overtones accompanying this bogus therapy. President Obama doesn't have a degree in finance, but he's done a commendable job mopping up the mess left to him by his predecessor, the infamous "W". So, where's the beef? (Your statement "....advising psychiatrists on how to counsel their patients.." completely lacks merit).
3
I'm glad he's opposed to this, but my Obama fatigue is getting pretty severe. Does he have to weigh in on absolutely everything?
11
Well he is the President of y'all, so I guess yes.
19
I'm sure there are plenty of people (especially LGBTQ+ youth) out there who are happy to hear that the President has concern about them. Your "Obama fatigue" is less important than the President's power to give weight to an issue. Also, you could just not click on articles that say "Obama" in the title.
23
I think what he's doing is speaking out against injustice where other people won't or are afraid to.
(In most countries, that's called "leadership.")
(In most countries, that's called "leadership.")
17
So, in the name of respecting "rights" and "freedom", he attempts to restrict those who would seek such therapy. Presumably not everyone is forced into such therapy; some seek it out willingly.
If the therapy has no effect, that's another matter altogether, namely: fraud. But if it provides some service to those who choose to undergo it, why should it be banned? Or one is only allowed to choose to be homosexual, not to choose not to?
There is no "authentic self", by the way.
If the therapy has no effect, that's another matter altogether, namely: fraud. But if it provides some service to those who choose to undergo it, why should it be banned? Or one is only allowed to choose to be homosexual, not to choose not to?
There is no "authentic self", by the way.
10
No one "chooses" to be homosexual any more than one "chooses" to be heterosexual or predominantly right handed rather than predominantly left handed or ambidextrous. Can you tell me when you made a conscious decision to be heterosexual?
27
He's calling for an end to these therapies specifically aimed at youth, and most often these kids are literally forced to go through this by their parents. As to having no effect, these therapies have been proven to cause immense harm to vulnerable young people, even leading some to suicide. How would you have coped as a teenage boy being forced into a therapy that purported to change your sexual orientation? I suggest you didn't choose to be heterosexual any more than I chose to be gay. You are free to seek any crackpot therapy you like as an adult.
28
Hi David - well put!
Believe what you like - but don't force "remedial" actions, based on your beliefs on children.
I think it was Christopher Hitchens who argued (or perhaps he was quoting): "In the real world, bad people will do the worst that they can; and the Good will do the best they can... For a good person do an evil thing, it takes religion".
Believe what you like - but don't force "remedial" actions, based on your beliefs on children.
I think it was Christopher Hitchens who argued (or perhaps he was quoting): "In the real world, bad people will do the worst that they can; and the Good will do the best they can... For a good person do an evil thing, it takes religion".
3
This practice is simply torture. It takes vulnerable youth and subjects them to physical punishment, mental duress and unspeakable denigration of their personality. Imagine doing this to straight youth! The outcry would be deafening. Gay, lesbian and transgender youth do not need to be "fixed." And we see the permanent mental scars that occur from this barbaric practice. How many more suicides and ruined lives do we need to witness before this cruel perversity stops.
27
I think you may be explicitly correct in your first sentence.
Every president has, of course, been profoundly imperfect, and like many other idealistic voters, I'm conflicted: I have no regrets for supporting Obama from the pragmatic side (particularly given his presidential power to make Supreme Court and administrative appointments), while, from the idealistic side, I've been disappointed in many of his other decisions as he has attempted to appease his Republican adversaries while also accommodating his Democratic and Republican corporate constituents. Nonetheless, I have to concede that his positive contributions have outweighed his negative ones, and, with this announcement, he has made me particularly satisfied to see him antagonize Fox/Republican "news" and to have him as our president.
Now, although his executive powers are limited, particularly with this Congress, I'd be very happy to see him continue issuing appropriate executive orders to address our country's profound economic inequality issues in any way that he possibly can.
Now, although his executive powers are limited, particularly with this Congress, I'd be very happy to see him continue issuing appropriate executive orders to address our country's profound economic inequality issues in any way that he possibly can.
19
What is a "religious therapist"? A witch doctor? A shaman? An exorcist? Do they sacrifice chickens, chant mumbo jumbo and speak in tongues?
Will mankind ever let loose of this medieval nonsense called religion?
Will mankind ever let loose of this medieval nonsense called religion?
25
No they wouldn't.
Hey, Jim - an example of a "religious therapist"..?
According to a bronze-Age myth - An exorcist who casts out "demons" - and sends them into a suicidal herd of swine..
One of Dawkins' contemporaries at Oxford announced on arrival that he was studying "divinity" and "theology". The housemaster commented: "I don't know whether those are even real subjects"
According to a bronze-Age myth - An exorcist who casts out "demons" - and sends them into a suicidal herd of swine..
One of Dawkins' contemporaries at Oxford announced on arrival that he was studying "divinity" and "theology". The housemaster commented: "I don't know whether those are even real subjects"
1
We can only hope.
As a psychologist, I was surprised that these "therapies" still exist given that they have no scientific credibility or validity and have been repudiated by numerous professional groups over the past decade. It's sad that such tragic consequences as the suicide of Ms. Alcorn need to occur to produce change. I hope President Obama's actions will end the use of these harmful and misguided practices once and for all and that organizations like Narth that promote them will be shuttered.
37
The President continues to use his office to do the right thing in both the executive and moral arenas. This is what it means to lead. I hope that he continues to disappoint those that would like him to behave like a lame duck right up to the last day he is in office.
46
Thank you President Obama! This trans Air Force veteran is so proud of what you have and continue to do for us!!!!
48
Hoorah Air Force!!!
12
As a long-time physician and psychiatrist I can say with confidence that this "conversion therapy" is bogus nonsense and unethical and malpractice. No exceptions.
76
Thanks for that information **
12
If a psychotherapist is licensed by the State and if the person undergoing
the therapy willingly seeks it and is free to stop it at any time, why should
there be a law against "Conversion" Therapies ?
There are people who become more heterosexual or homosexual or
bisexual over the course of their lives.
What business is it of anyone else if that person wishes to seek therapy ?
the therapy willingly seeks it and is free to stop it at any time, why should
there be a law against "Conversion" Therapies ?
There are people who become more heterosexual or homosexual or
bisexual over the course of their lives.
What business is it of anyone else if that person wishes to seek therapy ?
13
You are talking about "willingness". The problem is about "forcing".
Big difference.
Big difference.
11
Because said "therapy" in and of itself is harmful and dangerous, flat out. There are no exceptions. Just think of that word, "conversion". Conversion to what, exactly? A concept of "normality"? That's what happens when you tell a non-straight person, or a trans person, that they are somehow "abnormal". You are a freak of nature, and not normal. You need to convert yourself and your image to become normal.
Just read that statement for a moment and think of how disgustingly awful it is. The ONLY reason a person would willingly seek such therapy is if they were told to believe that they were disgusting and abnormal to begin with, and only this therapy would save them/get them into heaven/not let them lose their friends and family/etc.
Just read that statement for a moment and think of how disgustingly awful it is. The ONLY reason a person would willingly seek such therapy is if they were told to believe that they were disgusting and abnormal to begin with, and only this therapy would save them/get them into heaven/not let them lose their friends and family/etc.
14
Its usually parents forcing minor children into therapy instead of adults seeking it on their own.
11
Bravo President Obama! There is just no love or grace in such "therapies". It is merely a bullying tactic with disastrous consequences.
36
"Bravo President Obama! There is just no love or grace in such "therapies". It is merely a bullying tactic with disastrous consequences."
BINGO **
BINGO **
11
lois eisbeberg
It sounds as if both you and I received an awful jolt when reading about this crackpot. Fortunately, Mr. Obama will put an end to these dangerous antics that some grown-ups play. Remembering Miss Leelah Alcorn on this occasion.
It sounds as if both you and I received an awful jolt when reading about this crackpot. Fortunately, Mr. Obama will put an end to these dangerous antics that some grown-ups play. Remembering Miss Leelah Alcorn on this occasion.
“It’s not the story of one young person. It is the story of countless young people who have been subjected to this.”
By "countless", I believe he means 15.
Word Inflation, it's not just for propagandists anymore.
By "countless", I believe he means 15.
Word Inflation, it's not just for propagandists anymore.
6
15? Can I see your source?
15
That is fifteen that you're aware of. What about the others that aren't broadcast on the web? The ones that happened before the web existed, the ones who don't even have access to the tech, the ones who were ignored? What about them? Or the ones in other countries? And even if it is fifteen, that is fifteen too many. That is fifteen beautiful wonderfully normal children who will never reach adulthood, get married, find themselves, have children, have grandchildren. Fifteen is too many. One is too many.
9
Um, I believe you don't know what you're talking about. If only 15 people had gotten this treatment, that would mean less than one person for every three states in the U.S. would have gotten it, ever. There would be no need for all the states laws attempting to ban the practice. The fact that states are indeed pursuing such laws shows that the problem is much more rampant than you suggest.
I don't know the numbers but I would be willing to bet it is orders of magnitude larger than you claim.
I don't know the numbers but I would be willing to bet it is orders of magnitude larger than you claim.
7
Mr. Pickup is a letdown, and perhaps he should tend to the business of repairing himself and leave off fooling around with our Children. It is no wonder that one is approached by the younger generation who is ill at ease in the times we live in. They are usually the first to sense that something is wrong by picking up the energy and games that grown-ups play, and these religious therapists are dangerous to humans of all ages, regardless of their gender.
It is difficult to be a parent, and it is difficult to be a child under their guidance and domination. Having spent four decades working in the international children's community, it is a shock to hear that there are so-called misguided 'compassionate' activists who are damaging to all humanity.
It is enough to bring tears to this old child's eyes and now I know why I plan never to grow up because I shall cease to grow. Remembering Oscar Wilde who wrote The Happy Prince and other stories for his children. To me they seem to have been written for everybody who has been a child, and is fortunate or wise enough to have preserved something of what, in childhood itself, is fortunate, wise and eternal.
Leave off our Children, Mr. Pickup, we do not wish to hear from the likes of you again. It is a Sin to kill our Nightingales.
It is difficult to be a parent, and it is difficult to be a child under their guidance and domination. Having spent four decades working in the international children's community, it is a shock to hear that there are so-called misguided 'compassionate' activists who are damaging to all humanity.
It is enough to bring tears to this old child's eyes and now I know why I plan never to grow up because I shall cease to grow. Remembering Oscar Wilde who wrote The Happy Prince and other stories for his children. To me they seem to have been written for everybody who has been a child, and is fortunate or wise enough to have preserved something of what, in childhood itself, is fortunate, wise and eternal.
Leave off our Children, Mr. Pickup, we do not wish to hear from the likes of you again. It is a Sin to kill our Nightingales.
23
I have always considered the labels "gay" and "lesbian" to be harmful. Considering homo/hetero/bi/transgender and androgynous sexuality are physiological traits, akin to left and right handed traits, it seemed harmful to use subjective social terms, which are open to interpretation and criticism to 'label' a person. Additionally, I always felt the term "gay" and "straight" to be offensive - it implies homosexuals men may not be "straight" forward people. And I'm sure we all know a few heterosexuals that are so crooked, the term "straight" couldn't be used to describe them. These "therapy conversions" are devastatingly more harmful, however akin to the old practice of snatching a crayon out of a child's left hand and insisting upon them using the right. What parent would kick a "filthy south-paw" out of their home or take their child to therapy to exorcize the "lefty" out of her. Do away with the colloquial terms - keep sexuality non-subjective.
17
Couldn't agree more. I have always felt the same Labels are harmful. We are all just human and all the same.
1
The only way to "fix" your gay, lesbian or trans child is to give them all your love and support, be their greatest ally and stand with them to fight the ignorance, bias and hatred they will likely experience in our society.
Thank you Mr. My Favorite President
Thank you Mr. My Favorite President
76
"Thank you Mr. My Favorite President" DITTO **
4
Excellent post, ijive.
1
I know the evangelicals are bristling. Good for you, Mr. President.
66
As a mental health practitioner/therapist, let me just clarify that this so called "conversion therapy" is not therapy at all. It is a term used by religious extremists to justify mental torture directed at GLBT people under the guise of treatment. If any licensed mental health professional is providing "conversion therapy", they should be sued for malpractice and lose their license.
Kudos to the President for speaking out against this inhumane practice conducted by charlatans posing as therapists.
Kudos to the President for speaking out against this inhumane practice conducted by charlatans posing as therapists.
81
How would straight people feel if they were forced to undergo conversion therapy to turn them into gay people? Of course they'd hate it, and they'd rightly insist that it was not a valid undertaking because you are what you are as far as your sexual orientation is, and it's insane to try to change it. And they'd be right. Why is it so hard for some straight people to understand that the same concept applies to gay people, whether they're young or old? Just leave them alone already.
54
I feel like I'm going through that every day. Unfortunately, it's a therapy session that's lasted about 20 years so far, no end in sight.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. As for the commenter below who asks why a president would "bother himself with such issues" when this affects "like what .1% of the population?" - we know that statistics is the technology of distancing cloaked in so-called objectivity. Believe me, it matters to the one on the receiving end of these barbaric practices.
144
If for no other reason than this, I knew I voted for the right person for POTUS.
Senator Paul, where do you stand on this issue?
Senator Paul, where do you stand on this issue?
54
Glen: I imagine the Senator stands where his patrons want him to stand.
This is not a gay rights issue. Rather, it is about assault, medical malpractice, and child abuse, and the appropriate agencies should prosecute perpetrators.
74
Precisely. Thank you.
Efforts to convert sexual preferences are not ethical.
It is a misnomer to call it 'therapy'.
Every physician I know should be against it.
The President is correct to speak out.
It is a misnomer to call it 'therapy'.
Every physician I know should be against it.
The President is correct to speak out.
53
BINGO **
Conversion "Therapy" should have been banned years ago. I think a Federal law banning it would be better than trying to get each state to ban it - which will take years. Too many people have committed suicide or lived miserable lives because of all the lies that have been told to them and about them by people who are against the LGBT community. The people promoting these "therapies" are the ones who need help!
42
Is he going to issue an executive order banning such practices or merely call for end to such practices? If he simply calls for end to conversion therapies, that is mere lip service.
7
Since even the feds haven't been wacko enough to oush such "therapies," it's difficult to see how any Executive Order would apply.
And should one apply, would we a) support it, b) complain about dictatorial usurpation of the Constitution?
And should one apply, would we a) support it, b) complain about dictatorial usurpation of the Constitution?
The scope of executive orders is not unlimited. He can't change statutory law or state laws. At most, he could make orders affecting Executive Branch offices, agencies, and personnel, or one affecting those who contract with the government, but he can't change general laws by himself.
That's what the Congress is for, but with this Congress...
That's what the Congress is for, but with this Congress...
True, but a President's voice carries weight.
An executive order banning a therapeutic practise probably wouldn't withstand court challenges, and such losses would bolster this barbarism.
As this Congress wouldn't vote for a resolution praising motherhood if they thought President Obama would sign it, a federal law -- which should ultimately be the goal -- is not yet feasible.
President Obama understands that change is almost always incremental. This is an important step. If nothing else, it exposes further the child abuse and quackery that is practised in the name of religion.
An executive order banning a therapeutic practise probably wouldn't withstand court challenges, and such losses would bolster this barbarism.
As this Congress wouldn't vote for a resolution praising motherhood if they thought President Obama would sign it, a federal law -- which should ultimately be the goal -- is not yet feasible.
President Obama understands that change is almost always incremental. This is an important step. If nothing else, it exposes further the child abuse and quackery that is practised in the name of religion.
1
President Obama is a ROCK STAR.
Really, when history is written he will go down as one of the greatest presidents this country ever had.
We are so lucky and I am so proud of him.
Really, when history is written he will go down as one of the greatest presidents this country ever had.
We are so lucky and I am so proud of him.
64
Actually, he's a politician (not a statesman I might add). But he knew people just wanted a movie star for President so, here we are.
2
This practice must be ended and outlawed entirely. Surely no medical benefits should be paid for this therapy.
27
As a mother of two gay children, I so resonate with this story. Children come pre-wired, with their attitudes, personalities, and sexual preferences set.
To me, we parents simply help our children co-discover who they are and who they are mean to be. It is a journey of discovery, and we parents are blessed to be on the ride.
My bottom-line--you probably underestimate your value. Ask your children--likely, they can nail it!
My
To me, we parents simply help our children co-discover who they are and who they are mean to be. It is a journey of discovery, and we parents are blessed to be on the ride.
My bottom-line--you probably underestimate your value. Ask your children--likely, they can nail it!
My
32
Give it teeth.
State Medical and Psychiatric Boards need to qualify such dangerous "therapy" as mal practice.
State Medical and Psychiatric Boards need to qualify such dangerous "therapy" as mal practice.
66
It's as if we have some sociology professor for President. Why would a President even bother himself with this issue? Transsexuals are like what .1% of the population?
9
Because every person matters. Sorry the .1% doesn't matter to you. But there may be a few people besides the .1% who are transexual, who care about them. Like family and friends.
14
Human rights are not predicated on how many or how few people are affected.
23
Mr. President is addressing this issue because it's happening in America right now. Do you know what this therapy consists of? It involves a ton of manipulation and abuse, and all of the nation's leading professional medical and mental health associations have called this therapy dangerous and ineffective. About 2%-5% of the US population is estimated to be transgender. That doesn't seem like much, but just 2% alone is 6378000 people. And if you would like any sources as to where I got my facts, just ask :)
13
I am as straight as heck, but i do thank you Mr. President. Neuroscience knows a lot, but it knows there's a lot more to learn. Nobody should tell another person their sexual orientation is wrong. Life is hard enough without adding that misery. Peace to all.
72
It has become scientifically established that sexual preference is genetic. It occurs in many animal species, some LGBTpeople have been shown to have similar unique genetic characteristics, and it occurs in some families much more often than it does in others, throughout generations. The American Psychiatric Association has long stated that being LGBT is not a mental illness; and the only success rate "conversion" therapy has long been shown not to work, with many of its leading proponents "slipping" back to their true genetic nature.
I congratulate President Obama on his encouragement of civil rights for LGBT people, as anti-discrimination IS a government function.
I congratulate President Obama on his encouragement of civil rights for LGBT people, as anti-discrimination IS a government function.
48
can you please state which one is the study you are referring to...? Just saying something without any backing is just say-so and it becomes just your opinion.
2
It is not genetic. Since gays, for the most part, do not reproduce, the "gay gene" would have been extinguished long ago.
I think you mean "biologically determined" rather than "genetic"
O....M...G There is still therapy for this? But, yes, there our president goes again, defending individual liberties. I just want a GOP presidential primary debate moderator to ask candidates what their positions are on this.
And, c'mon now, Rand Paul is a Libertarian, so surely *he* respects their rights. He's for liberty, yes?
There's a business for everything. There are physicians who will prescribe Adderall for the kids of inept parents. So parents who can't love their child for who he or she is, turn to.... tadah... Christian therapy. Someday, when Jesus returns, there are going to be a lot of unhappy Right Wing Christians.
"California, New Jersey and the District of Columbia have banned therapists from offering the treatment to minors." Let's hear it for Jersey!
And, c'mon now, Rand Paul is a Libertarian, so surely *he* respects their rights. He's for liberty, yes?
There's a business for everything. There are physicians who will prescribe Adderall for the kids of inept parents. So parents who can't love their child for who he or she is, turn to.... tadah... Christian therapy. Someday, when Jesus returns, there are going to be a lot of unhappy Right Wing Christians.
"California, New Jersey and the District of Columbia have banned therapists from offering the treatment to minors." Let's hear it for Jersey!
40
Never mind asking Rand Paul about his stand on the bogus conversion therapy I'm still flabbergasted that a 'libitatarian" can be anti choice. Talk about government overreach!!
Bravo, President Obama! You go!
45
I was just reading that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie's daughter, Shilo, identifies as a boy. Those parents respect and encourage the gender exploration. That's the moral and therapeutic response we should all offer.
33
Yes, that's the harbinger of a healthy and productive life.
4
Just one more reason I am glad there is President Barack Obama.
112
President Obama's second term is turning out to be as productive and transformative as his first.
Kudos to this President who will surely be recognized as one of America's finest!
Kudos to this President who will surely be recognized as one of America's finest!
58
I'm proud that our President continues to stand up for justice by doing the right thing. Only a few years ago he bravely declared his support for same sex marriage. It seems we've made a lot of progress since then and yet there is still so much more work to do on the civil rights front. With today's headline focusing on North Charleston, the next battle should be systemic racism in our police departments.
73
Oh please, he's been behind the curve on gay rights since day one. He was actively opposed to same sex marriage in 2008, and until recently, when it became politically safe to be in favor.
He was ok with' don't ask, don't tell', the lifting of which was more attributable to Joe Lieberman, of all people, than Obama, and he still hasn't extended full partnership benefits to partners of federal workers.
A President is supposed to lead change, not jump on a bandwagon as it passes the White House. On gay rights or marriage equality, Obama has been Mr "Me Too", not Mr Civil Rights.
He was ok with' don't ask, don't tell', the lifting of which was more attributable to Joe Lieberman, of all people, than Obama, and he still hasn't extended full partnership benefits to partners of federal workers.
A President is supposed to lead change, not jump on a bandwagon as it passes the White House. On gay rights or marriage equality, Obama has been Mr "Me Too", not Mr Civil Rights.
4
Give him a break. He's evolved on this issue along with the rest of the country, and then realizing he had been in the wrong, stepped up and used his position to advocate for lgbt rights. Tell me - what other president has been as forthright on this issue?
17
But you're forgetting that in 2008 the good guys hadn't won yet, and being a national politician in favor of same-sex marriage only worked if you lived in one of those bright blue states that sit by the ocean. Obama was publicly in favor of marriage rights for quite some time before a serious national campaign shifted him back towards the mediocre center.
While I suppose that a pro marriage rights stance in 2008 could have won him some more votes from the liberal side of the democratic party (not exactly a demographic he was struggling to nail down...); it certainly would have cost him moderate votes, perhaps even a significant number of them. Now, he won by a significant margin, and could have afforded to give up those votes, but with democratic majorities to protect in congress, down-ticket races were vitally important, and the fly-over states hadn't turned their current shade of mauve (blue + red...) in regards to us homos yet.
While it might have been nice to have his vocal support earlier, I personally would much rather have his /actual/ support now. Losing an election in order to say you're in favor of something, even a deeply held belief, is a pyrrhic victory at the very best. On the other hand, winning an election and then using your new-found pulpit to enact a policy agenda -- why, it's a dream of political function come true!
While I suppose that a pro marriage rights stance in 2008 could have won him some more votes from the liberal side of the democratic party (not exactly a demographic he was struggling to nail down...); it certainly would have cost him moderate votes, perhaps even a significant number of them. Now, he won by a significant margin, and could have afforded to give up those votes, but with democratic majorities to protect in congress, down-ticket races were vitally important, and the fly-over states hadn't turned their current shade of mauve (blue + red...) in regards to us homos yet.
While it might have been nice to have his vocal support earlier, I personally would much rather have his /actual/ support now. Losing an election in order to say you're in favor of something, even a deeply held belief, is a pyrrhic victory at the very best. On the other hand, winning an election and then using your new-found pulpit to enact a policy agenda -- why, it's a dream of political function come true!
2
The arc of history has just bent that much more towards justice. President Obama should be remembered for standing up for civil rights here.
94
Okay. I guess he can call an end to it what with the bully pulpit and everything. I, myself, don't think these tactics are very beneficial for LGBT people.
But, I hope the President is not thinking of an executive order or anything. Even legislation would be troublesome in our country, which, when I last checked, was still grounded on the very important principal of limitation of powers.
But, I hope the President is not thinking of an executive order or anything. Even legislation would be troublesome in our country, which, when I last checked, was still grounded on the very important principal of limitation of powers.
4
Child abuse is illegal and well with the purview of society to control. Forcing children to undergo conversion therapy to reverse their natural state should be classified as child abuse.
12
No child should be subjected to such quackery as "conversion therapy." Leave the child alone.
5
Thank you, Mr. President, for this outstanding example of leadership and compassion.
43
To 2 of the posters here. Therapy, in the end is simply a service or commodity, if you will. You cannot change or alter anyone sexual orientation, or "cure" a disease that doesn't exist. If the therapy was entered into by an willing adult, there is still the major component of false advertising, to deal with.
34
What of the youth have these leanings and want to change them? Are they forced to deal with desires with which they are uncomfortable?
Will this cabal in the white house demand treatment for them to affirm their 'gayness'?
We are truly lost as a nation.
Will this cabal in the white house demand treatment for them to affirm their 'gayness'?
We are truly lost as a nation.
9
Lakelife, you unfortunately do not understand what it means to be gay. Either a person is gay, or they are not. It isn't like wearing itchy wool, which makes them uncomfortable so they take it off. It isn't a sickness to be treated. It is the way some people are born.
It is cruel to speak of 'gayness' as something that can be treated.
It is cruel to speak of 'gayness' as something that can be treated.
28
Only other people, such as yourself, would make them uncomfortable about who they truly are.
36
Unfortunately for those youth, there is no effective therapy for changing someone's sexual orientation or gender identity, so anyone claiming to be able to do either is a charlatan. Fortunately, there are many therapists across America (including myself) who can help them find ways to accept themselves as they are and learn new ways of coping with their inner struggles and possible depression and anxiety that may result.
25
I voted for Mr. Obama twice. Often I have been disappointed in his seeming lack of backbone in opposing the right-wing embrace of anti-woman, anti-gay, and yes, anti-life politics (when I say "anti-life" I mean anti-eros . At last he seems to be speaking more from the heart. Better late than never. Thank you, Mr. President for confirming my support of you.
30
No methodology that has led to suicide and depression can be called "therapy."
63
As if teenagers do not commit suicide for all kinds of reasons. Even in benighted Palo Alto they're putting 24/7 video surveillance on the Caltrain tracks to prevent more suicides by Palo Alto high school students. Why is that?
2
Good Evening Charles,
The existence of adolescent suicide does not justify a destructive approach of shaming someone for being who they are. Everyone deserves the chance to feel comfortable in their skin, not another reason to hate their life. And in no way is it therapy to add fuel to any fire. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Best regards.
The existence of adolescent suicide does not justify a destructive approach of shaming someone for being who they are. Everyone deserves the chance to feel comfortable in their skin, not another reason to hate their life. And in no way is it therapy to add fuel to any fire. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Best regards.
Trans people have the highest suicide rates across all demographics, regardless of age, and it's been shown that the ones who have support from their families and communities are more likely to survive transition. It's the lack of support that's lethal.
3
As the mom of a gay son, I have dreaded the day when he would even hear of the term "conversion therapy". Being a teenager is tough enough. Being a gay teenager, even moreso. Then to hear there is a "conversion therapy" which exists to 'fix' what is 'wrong' with people like my him???
It is heartbreaking.
THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA.
It is heartbreaking.
THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA.
195
nymom, u rock! no need to worry about ur son.
6
I fully support a scientific, objective review that leads to the best care for everyone involved. Let's hope that happens.
10
It's already happened. Decades ago. "Conversion therapy" is torture. Period.
8
I think that's exactly what our President is proposing. Away with the fiction of religious based fantasies about sexuality that only involves man and woman, and the forced "conversion," and in with the reality that people have loved those of their same sex since the beginning of time.
If you're curious, all of the nation's leading medical and mental health associations have already deemed the therapy as dangerous and ineffective :)
7
It is a very humane to do by the President. The binary model of gender pathologizes gender variance. We have to come up with a more inclusive definition of gender. I think humans are evolving. Variance is the mother of evolution. I said "mother".
13
4000+ teenagers commit suicide every year and about 150,000+ are treated for self inflicted injuries. Youth with gay/lesbian issues have a much higher rate of suicide attempts/completion. Since conversion therapy is a non existent issue in 99.999% of these statistics Obama stance means nothing and does nothing.
8
That's a bit like saying anti-semitism isn't important because most people aren't Jewish.
2
It was a petition from the public. The petition received the required signatures for a White House response. Of course it's not going to solve teen suicide, but it's beneficial to those who are subjected to this religious zealotry and quack science for the president to apply pressure. He has a big megaphone.
It draws attention to the horrific tragedy of Ms Alcorn's absolutely unnecessary death. Or should we say homicide? That is quite far from nothing.
10
It's no coincidence that those advocating these therapies also see homosexuality as a sin, and any admission that it is innate undermines fundamental faith. Of course common sense tells us that sexual attraction is ingrained.
34
What we're advocating is just like a man who wants to become a woman has options, so should those people who don't want to be gay.
It was a mistake by the author to even describe this practice as a "psychiatric" therapy. the American psychiatric association reversed its stance pathologizing homosexuality in 1973 and issued a position condemning this practice in 1998.
44
This president is fantastic! Thank you Barack Obama. I couldn't be prouder of your work to end injustice in this country. You have acted on so many issues that are important to the betterment of the lives of LGBT people, and in turn humanity. You will go down in history as one of the greats. The greats.
54
Greg,
Thank you. Mr. Obama is extraordinary and for some of us living today, he already is one of our Greats.
Thank you. Mr. Obama is extraordinary and for some of us living today, he already is one of our Greats.
2
Once again the President gets involved in things that aren't government's business.I guess he feels he can dictate anything he wants,
10
I guess we can repeal the 1906 law, too, that stopped the sales of snake oil.
... or not. And recognize that the government indeed has a place in dealing with fraudulent medical practice.
... or not. And recognize that the government indeed has a place in dealing with fraudulent medical practice.
57
Since when is the regulation of medical services NOT the business of government?
You want health care to regulate itself?
You want health care to regulate itself?
35
You mean the way the Republicans pass legislation to restrict a woman's right to choose or even to get access to contraception?
34
Alan Turing (the inventor of computing, who saved the allies in WWII by cracking the German Enigma codes), committed suicide back in the 50's because the UK had a law that forced him to conversion by taking pills. Imagine that.
147
He was sentenced to chemical castration. It was a punishment intended to make him impotent, not a conversion. He killed himself because he was basically being forced through HRT even though he wasn't trans, and the feminizing effects of the pharmaceuticals he was given basically gave him (inverse?) gender dysphoria. It'd be ironic if it weren't so god-awfully tragic.
1
All correct about Alan Turing, except that it is not clear whether his death from cyanide was by suicide or accidental exposure.
Thank you, Mr. President.
47
The saddest part is that a non-theraputic, non-scientific exercise of hatred could even be considered controversial - it's outright abhorrent.
109
This Is Important and Heartening News!
26
The petty attacks on President Obama's citizenship, his legitimacy and his veracity will be forgotten, as will the obstreperous scolds who accused and taunted him. What will be remembered are the ways in which he ushered us into the 21st century, in spite of the conservative politics and religion that tried to drag us back to the middle ages. Here's hoping that in decades to come gay people will have the freedom to be who they are without being "converted," or excluded from businesses, or prevented from marrying the people they love, or being shamed and vilified by their fellow citizens.
243
Just who are they? The "gay" people.
..or being served in a restaurant in Indiana or Arkansas
2
Very well said, history will see President Obama as a forward thinking insightful human being, and President. Thank god we elected him twice.
1
Thank you Mr. President. This perversion of Christianity (mainly by self identified evangelicals) is just plain WRONG.
To all those out there who are struggling with such issues, we wish you health, happiness and courage. We also wish that you have supports and resources you can access if it gets to be too overwhelming.
R.I.P. Leelah.
To all those out there who are struggling with such issues, we wish you health, happiness and courage. We also wish that you have supports and resources you can access if it gets to be too overwhelming.
R.I.P. Leelah.
131
If anyone is in need of conversion therapy, it would be the evangelicals and overly devout christians.
Seeing as they are always at the opposite end of reason and critical thinking, it seems fair to assume they are the ones in need of psychological counseling and/or reparative therapies. After all, a Dark Age mindset cannot be beneficial to anyones mental health.
Seeing as they are always at the opposite end of reason and critical thinking, it seems fair to assume they are the ones in need of psychological counseling and/or reparative therapies. After all, a Dark Age mindset cannot be beneficial to anyones mental health.
Seems the patient was already suicidal dont blame the threapist that was just doing their job. It is ones choice to convert or not
4
If Leelah was suicidal already, we certainly don't have to wonder why. She was undoubtedly harassed by her family, and her church, prior to being forced into so-called conversion therapy. Children need protection from charlatans masquerading as mental health professionals. Until this 'treatment' is completely banned, it should at least be limited to adults since children by definition cannot make an informed decision.
26
Do you know what kind of pressure she might have received to go to this pseudo therapist? Intense pressure. At the same time, an internal pressure was within her to come out. The 2 pressures could not be reconciled. A real therapist would recognize this. This type of conflict created the need to escape by suicide. Speaking from real experience, as the parent of a transgender person who is coming into his own. Could not be prouder of him!
27
LGBT kids pressured by their parents have no choice. These bogus "therapist" hucksters are to blame for peddling snake oil for money, second only to the parents for abandoning their kids to such wanton cruelty.
28
Such an amazing man
36
That's not what the polls show. Quite the opposite.
Reply to Charles:
March 3. 1987, Saint Ronald was at 42℅. BTW, George H.W. was at 32% that week.
Not that it proves anything, but the current Fox news approval of Obama is 45%.
March 3. 1987, Saint Ronald was at 42℅. BTW, George H.W. was at 32% that week.
Not that it proves anything, but the current Fox news approval of Obama is 45%.
1
"Officials also announced the creation of an “all-gender restroom” in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, where many of the White House staff members work, to provide an additional option for transgender individuals who are not comfortable using either the men’s or women’s restrooms."
At a certain point you cross the line from accommodating to ridiculous and the cost of stretching your position to the extreme is that your more essential arguments lose their value by association.
At a certain point you cross the line from accommodating to ridiculous and the cost of stretching your position to the extreme is that your more essential arguments lose their value by association.
8
Jack, if you live with people in a house or apartment, I can be fairly sure you're quite used to all-gender restrooms.
11
I have only one toilet in my house and it is used by both male and female guests to my home. Same throughout my childhood in the family home.
14
I disagree. It is leadership by example. Since the beginnings of societies people falling outside the either sex/gender majority have been ostracized and persecuted and worse. Accommodating people falling outside this majority with bricks an mortar is a worthy gesture of inclusion, and should be applauded.
9
Under President Obama...
1. Economic indicators (stock market, unemployment, GDP) all improved
2. Improved national security (Bin Laden etc.)
3. No longer fighting in Iraq
4. Strengthened civil rights
5. Nuclear treaty with Iran on the horizon
1. Economic indicators (stock market, unemployment, GDP) all improved
2. Improved national security (Bin Laden etc.)
3. No longer fighting in Iraq
4. Strengthened civil rights
5. Nuclear treaty with Iran on the horizon
151
Hey, looks good to me! My retirement portfolio has more than doubled under this president. So has that of Republicans. And he's for more liberty than Rand Paul.
So ,
6. Increased individual liberty
So ,
6. Increased individual liberty
14
You left out the opening up of relations with Cuba.
8
You left out (a) became the first U.S. president to take significant steps to halt climate change, and (b) brought health insurance to 16 million Americans and counting-- despite relentless political opposition and sabotage.
The is a question that has moral and psychological / psychiatric facets that should hardly involve the President. Who exactly is qualified if anyone to make such blanket statements is a good question. But the last person I would look to is Obama who less than a few short years ago was against same sex marriages. What moral or scientific compass is he using now except to curry favour with his political supporters.
9
"Currying favour" is a legitimate political process, since those out of favour aren't electable. But LGBT are a minority, and therefore unable to influence elections in the way you are accusing us of. Any politician therefore, who defends the civil rights of LGBT or any other minority is always standing on principle alone. 90-95% of the population are heterosexual, so any smart politician with rudimentary math will know they're the ones to curry favour with.
The President is entitled to involve himself with something that ruins the lives of large numbers of Americans in EVERY state EVERY year. There are sound economic reasons for doing so. Suicide is expensive, when you consider how much we spend raising kids to age 18 (around $300,000) only to see that investment go up in crematorium smoke.
Out of America's 2.6 million homeless youth, over 40% are LGBT kicked out of home by religious parents, from ages as young as 11. Over 60% of those attempt suicide within their first year of homelessness, succeeding at up to6x or more the national average rate for youth suicide.
Now you can multiply your $300,000 investment in the child by all those who suicide, and again by survivors who never complete high school because of bullying, and add welfare costs for destroyed human beings, and multiply THAT by 40 years, and we're already into trillions.
Even if you don't care about gay kids, think at least of the cost to the nation, and whether the President should be concerned.
The President is entitled to involve himself with something that ruins the lives of large numbers of Americans in EVERY state EVERY year. There are sound economic reasons for doing so. Suicide is expensive, when you consider how much we spend raising kids to age 18 (around $300,000) only to see that investment go up in crematorium smoke.
Out of America's 2.6 million homeless youth, over 40% are LGBT kicked out of home by religious parents, from ages as young as 11. Over 60% of those attempt suicide within their first year of homelessness, succeeding at up to6x or more the national average rate for youth suicide.
Now you can multiply your $300,000 investment in the child by all those who suicide, and again by survivors who never complete high school because of bullying, and add welfare costs for destroyed human beings, and multiply THAT by 40 years, and we're already into trillions.
Even if you don't care about gay kids, think at least of the cost to the nation, and whether the President should be concerned.
9
He doesn't need to "curry favour" with his political supporters. He has already been elected President - twice. US law does not allow a third term.
7
You tell that to the Republican presidential primary candidates.
8
I grew up in a time and place where I was hardly aware that gay and transgender people even existed. I'm certain that many cruelties were experienced by them during this time and that many still are, but I am not convinced that very much additional progress is going to accomplished through legislation or political confrontation. I have always tried to stay far away from people who I believe wish me no good, and find that most of the time this works.
4
I'm glad it worked for you but there are a lot of young people out there who don't have the ability to do that.
12
Great post, A., but you are in the great state of Texas where, pretty much, they leave you alone. Right Wing Christians are talking about legislating morality. They *won't* leave you alone.
6
Unfortunately we are talking about children. And children need to be protected from abuse. Did you not read the article? These children do not have the option which you suggest.
10
Conversion therapy is right up there with waterboarding and Spanish inquisition style torture. Medieval and barbaric.
130
How so, as sometimes necessary?
1
I agree 100%. But I bet 99.9 % of the 'theripests' are claiming to be "good, devoted Christians" while committing torture.
4
Conversion therapy is an oxymoron, right up there with united nations and religious freedom.
I am afraid of creating policy that bans certain types of treatment across the board based on one individual's response to their situation. Without going into great length, I tend to hold to the "traditional" interpretation of gender identity and think it is a healthy thing. I do see a difference between coerced and voluntary therapy, however, and would hope that the President's support does seek to eradicate voluntary therapy of this nature.
9
Zach, as the mother of a son who is gay, and new he was from a very young age, I'd like you to know that any conversion therapy..."voluntary" or not, is absurd. People are gay, or they aren't. It isn't a choice they have made. It is the luck of the draw I suppose that my son was born into a loving family that supported him. For those who receive rejection and scorn, who may be swayed into this ridiculous 'therapies', we must have protections. I hope one day you evolve to understand this.
18
Edit: Knew. Not new. Tired.
7
If there is no outside pressure to be a certain way and the person truly has freedom, they are free to express however they experience sexual orientation and gender. This is what is needed for young (and older) people to be healthy - the support and freedom to be who they are.
6
President Obama's response to Ms. Alcorn's plea, to finally do away once and for all hideous rules of conversion therapy, brings tears to my eyes.
As once a school nurse, I saw and heard the pain of youths who had been scorned, bullied, reprimanded, mandated to be someone they weren't.
And for what? To make others' lives better, more holy, more acceptable?
More acceptable to who? To narrow minded, insensitive, biased people who did not understand or want to understand the pain of the youths?
What about the youth whose lives were volleyed around by others, lives they could not behold as their own? What about their lives, the ones living inside their own bodies - the bodies they knew were their own?
No matter what anyone says, President Obama is to be commended for his decisions on the lives of those who can make their own decisions on gender preference and body preference. They are born to be their own persons and now, let them be totally their own persons - not to be controlled by anyone else under any circumstance.
As once a school nurse, I saw and heard the pain of youths who had been scorned, bullied, reprimanded, mandated to be someone they weren't.
And for what? To make others' lives better, more holy, more acceptable?
More acceptable to who? To narrow minded, insensitive, biased people who did not understand or want to understand the pain of the youths?
What about the youth whose lives were volleyed around by others, lives they could not behold as their own? What about their lives, the ones living inside their own bodies - the bodies they knew were their own?
No matter what anyone says, President Obama is to be commended for his decisions on the lives of those who can make their own decisions on gender preference and body preference. They are born to be their own persons and now, let them be totally their own persons - not to be controlled by anyone else under any circumstance.
140
This is really going to further anger Christian conservatives. Email coming from Family Research Council in 5 ... 4 ...
The President is absolutely correct. There is no scientific basis for reparative "therapy." It is an unwitting form of child abuse. Having a gay son certainly hasn't hindered Phyllis Schlafly.
The President is absolutely correct. There is no scientific basis for reparative "therapy." It is an unwitting form of child abuse. Having a gay son certainly hasn't hindered Phyllis Schlafly.
94
Great leadership from President Obama. The bottom line is inherent human dignity. Everyone, regardless of how they identify or to whom they are attracted, deserve respect. Conversion therapies have only destructive value and reinforce a wrong-minded idea that someone should be fixed. The problem is not in those LBGT individuals, it is with the intolerant.
183
As sensible and perhaps over due as is this worthy effort of the President, it is the reaction it will elicit from the Republicans and their Presidential candidates that I also await. Everything that makes clear to the American public just how backward, cruel, and inveterately stupid these ideas are, the better. Kudos to the President for doing the right thing and casting the light in every worthwhile direction, both in support of these youth and towards those who would punish them for being human.
41
As a 30 year old gay man it's utterly insane this can't be instantly repealed at the federal level. So it will go to the states to decide if it's okay for religious zealots to be able to psychologically torture LGBT youth under their guardianship in the name of religion? In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Now here we are, 40 years later, and these issues are just now being considered to be put up for vote by politicians at the state level? I'm not at all impressed with the progress. America should be furious at this and it's not.
110
I agree with every word you wrote, but unless the voters do too, you're up against the Tyranny of the Majority. Educating the hearts and minds is tediously slow, but it's the only way. At least now, for the first time in history, we have a President who has effectuated major LGBT reform unmatched in US history, or indeed in world history. History will treat President Barack Obama a lot more kindly than his Republican adversaries have. They will live on only in infamy.
17
Homosexuality was removed from the DMS4 in 2004 not 1973. Where did you hear this?
In 1973 gays were barely a stones throw from the shadow of 1969's
Stonewall and most of mainstream society was in the dark about homosexuality and most of gay society was still in the closet.
So this highly organized politcal force in you're speaking of in 1973 didn't exist, at all.-D
In 1973 gays were barely a stones throw from the shadow of 1969's
Stonewall and most of mainstream society was in the dark about homosexuality and most of gay society was still in the closet.
So this highly organized politcal force in you're speaking of in 1973 didn't exist, at all.-D
3
There was surely was no recognized awareness or acceptance of being gay where I lived in 1973. When I was in high school 68-71 the girls decided who was going to date who. I was the choice for one girl. I always wondered why she hated kissing or touching. I was accused of turning her gay. She never came back to that small town bigotry. When my son who is not gay had a gay friend in high school in the 90's I began to understand and see how badly gays were treated. And that no one would ever willingly choose to be gay and subject themselves to the social scorn. Even now. Some people can be so cruel, and when they justify their cruelty with religion it's disgusting. When they use religion to push elected people it's beyond disgusting.
4
There is a balance needed. Obama is crossing the line into what should be a patient - provider relationship. It is wrong to presume that everyone who thinks they may be gay or transgender is so, especially for young people. There can be many influences that could lead a person wrongly towards that direction. What is needed is counseling that helps a person understand who he/she is. There are numerous persons who have had same sex relationships but eventually came to discover that they were heterosexual. This could come about because a loner was befriended by someone who was active in the gay lifestyle so the person is drawn in not because of a leaning on his part but because that is where the emotional tie is. Proper therapy needs to cover the full spectrum of need and reparative therapy should be available. This campaign against a practice that has helped many is unwarranted. The campaign fails to recognize that there is for some a choice and that choice needs to be recognized. This is not an issue for the President of the United States to decide, it is a private issue between parents and minor children and their chosen therapist. It is not about petitions. Ms. Alcorn's suicide is tragic but that does not justify intervention by a Presdent in search of a legacy.
17
How much counseling did you require to determine your sexuality?
35
"There can be many influences that can lead a person wrongly towards that direction." With all due respect, I t's strongly suggested to me you do not know or have had many conversations with LGBT people. The same day I knew I was gay was the same day you knew were straight. Being gay is as innate as something as hair color, or being left or right handed. It is never something anyone willingly chooses. Some do better to accept it than others but there is little avail to those who are forced to these camps by their supposed loved ones.
21
And do you have similar feelings about the sanctity of the "doctor-patient" relationship if the patient is thinking about an abortion? Or is that relationship subject to political "help": probes, mandatory lies by physicians, waiting periods, etc. if the therapy is an abortion?
29
Thank you, Mr. President, for doing the right thing. You have earned my vote as one of the finest presidents this country has ever had! Bravo!
150
Conversion therapy is stupid, but is this really the kind of issue that our president needs to be spending his time worrying about? Once Obama has fixed the economy, taken care of ISIS, and balanced the budget -- then I'll be quite interested in his views on conversion therapy.
26
The President is not spending his time "worrying about" such issues. As our leader, he does have a voice that he could use for the good. If he can reach even one kid or person struggling with such issues, I for one think it is well worth it.
And while the economy has a ways to go, his policies certainly have improved the economy that was left in a shambles after the administration of you know who.
Re. ISIS, if you are so concerned Hoover, I suggest you leave Union Square and hop on a flight over to the region. I am NOT sending my family to fight the wars of all the internecine tribes in that area. They can fight it out themselves. Enough of American blood, sweat, tears, lives and limbs.
p.s. if you are not interested in Anyone's views on conversion therapy, you really can switch the channel or the web page. No one is forcing you to read this.
And while the economy has a ways to go, his policies certainly have improved the economy that was left in a shambles after the administration of you know who.
Re. ISIS, if you are so concerned Hoover, I suggest you leave Union Square and hop on a flight over to the region. I am NOT sending my family to fight the wars of all the internecine tribes in that area. They can fight it out themselves. Enough of American blood, sweat, tears, lives and limbs.
p.s. if you are not interested in Anyone's views on conversion therapy, you really can switch the channel or the web page. No one is forcing you to read this.
37
Considering that this issue deals with fundamental human rights and with human dignity, yes, it is one of the kinds of issues that our president needs to be spending his or her time worrying about.
Oh, and, for the record, the economy is now in much better shape than it was in when he became president. In fact, it is doing rather well, thank you very much.
Oh, and, for the record, the economy is now in much better shape than it was in when he became president. In fact, it is doing rather well, thank you very much.
22
Well he's pretty much fixed the economy.
But I don't worry about how he spends his time. He seems to be able to focus on a hundred different important issues and be effective on each one.
This is an exceptional president and man. He inspires me.
But I don't worry about how he spends his time. He seems to be able to focus on a hundred different important issues and be effective on each one.
This is an exceptional president and man. He inspires me.
28
Isn't part of our right to live our own lives the responsibility to allow others the natural freedom to live theirs/
37
Yes, in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world any more than we have real separation of church and state. There have always been and always will be politicians that will use any means at their disposal to make an issue out of what should be a non-issue just to stir up the religious right to the point where they are frothing at the mouth.
Good work Mr. Prez.
Good work Mr. Prez.
7
I applaud the president's taking a position and making a public announcement on this issue. I just have to say though, it must be easier now that he doesn't have to run for reelection. Where was he on this issue 6 years ago?
22
Perhaps that's a good argument for a 6 year one-term presidency? Important issues wouldn't have to fear reprisals from electioneering, and pols could actually do more than campaign.
31
Wow, are you kidding? In 6 years this man has almost single-handedly changed the tone of politics in the US.
33
If he'd said the same thing six years ago he wouldn't be president now. He didn't and he is, and thank God for that!
19
I love my president more than ever today. Thank you for using your position to do what is right, and for caring for so many people who don't have a voice. Many lives will be saved thanks to this.
247
This certainly makes it easier for those of us across the country in the fields of mental health and human sexuality, pushing for this to be banned. Superb leadership, right on time.
194
Silly me ... I thought this garbage therapy was discredited long ago. But thank you, Mr. President, for standing up for what's right.
206
Having seen the results of this as practiced on my brother at Brigham Young University (where they used electro shock therapy to cure the gay) I believe this should rise to the level of medical malpractice. Kudos to Obama for stepping up.
344
Timothy, According to the author of the following article BYU is no longer using electro shock therapy, but the procedure that she describes as having been used in the past is unconscionable and should make any one sad and angry. I hope your brother is ok and knows that there is a growing movement to ban the use of conversion therapy in the future.
How BYU's Electroshock Aversion Therapy Worked
During the 70s, the psychology department at Brigham Young University experimented with electroshock aversion therapy in an attempt to cure homesexuality. Patients who went through BYU's program were shown erotic pictures of people of the same sex. When the counselors monitoring the patient sensed he or she was getting aroused, an electrical shock would be delivered to the patient. In later sessions, if a patient felt himself or herself being aroused they could press a plunger to stop the shock and an image of a fully clothed member of the opposite sex would appear on the screen.
https://suite.io/shawn-landis/e8n2kx
How BYU's Electroshock Aversion Therapy Worked
During the 70s, the psychology department at Brigham Young University experimented with electroshock aversion therapy in an attempt to cure homesexuality. Patients who went through BYU's program were shown erotic pictures of people of the same sex. When the counselors monitoring the patient sensed he or she was getting aroused, an electrical shock would be delivered to the patient. In later sessions, if a patient felt himself or herself being aroused they could press a plunger to stop the shock and an image of a fully clothed member of the opposite sex would appear on the screen.
https://suite.io/shawn-landis/e8n2kx
10
Barbaric. I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry Timothy.
6
Ahh, good ole religion. God the Carrot and God the Stick. We're on our best behavior, enticed by 'eternal reward' and driven by 'eternal damnation'. We'll begin to drop religion when we begin to get that the carrot is also a stick, and was ALWAYS a stick.
2
Thank you, President Obama, for hearing the stories of people in pain and responding with empathy and justice. Sadly with the differences between states reform on that level will still leave vulnerable LGBT young people in harm's way.
122
Good, an enlightened move that will alleviate much stress and trauma.
87
Thank you Mr. President.
101
Very powerful indeed! I am so proud of our president for standing up for some of the most vulnerable people in our society. These kids need our compassion and our acceptance; no one needs to be told that who they are is wrong.
297
@P
My neighbor's son wants to be a fireman, but me neighbor keeps enrolling him in tutoring sessions to improve his academic prospects.
Should we expect the state to intervene and curtail this undue pressure?
My neighbor's son wants to be a fireman, but me neighbor keeps enrolling him in tutoring sessions to improve his academic prospects.
Should we expect the state to intervene and curtail this undue pressure?
3
If the consensus opinion of all respectable mental heath organizations, supported by peer-reviewed research, was that such tutoring is not just ineffective, but greatly increased the risk of depression and suicide- then yes, the state ought to intervene.
But thanks for playing.
But thanks for playing.
6
@Stuart
If the tutoring session help drive the son to suicide, then yes, the state should intervene.
If the tutoring session help drive the son to suicide, then yes, the state should intervene.
2
From the Presidential bully pulpit, a voice of moral reasoning and dignity for the personhood within us all. Thank you, Mr. President. For acts of courage that leave no one out. Although nothing immediately changes, the words begin to have their own effect. Thank you for standing up.
283
Powerful move. I'm glad President Obama heard what Leelah Alcorn and countless others are saying.
Thank you.
Thank you.
160
Excellent move Mr. Pres, and a good read. It is also my hope when he reach the Caribbean region for the Summit of the Americas in Panama where the treatment of gays, lesbian, bisexual is also devastating lives along these shores, he should make a strong statement.
27