I can't believe that people give away their personal information for only a few dollars in savings. These insurance companies will do anything they can do screw you if they are able. I was recently looking for life insurance and found a bunch of online web pages that weren't even secure! Hello? Http and NOT https? Who would provide anything personal over a non secure URL? If you're wondering who I found, they are at https://lifeinsurance.rocks. Good people. Anyways, keep your personal information personal at all costs.
What a relief that the insurance regulators understand that carving up the risk pool into specific individuals with extensive personalized data is no big deal, and thank God insurance companies are never hacked!
Wow, everybody is a touch paranoid here... Better risk pricing for behavioral decisions makes perfect sense to me. Soon, some of the people on here won't want their bosses to know what they're doing so he/she can't measure performance for the annual bonus as this is an invasion of your privacy. Perhaps we should not allow colleges to get school results so as not to negatively affect those who couldn't be bothered to study? Behavioral data and economics has been with us for a long time. Greater access to new data and technology is a growing trend - get used to it.
This is evil.
5
With all due respect for diet and exercise, these won't save you from dying during the years you're going to need life insurance. These Life Insurance companies are running the same promotion run on Black Friday morning: get your young and healthy full pockets in our doors first. Put another way, how many people with dependents actually die from diseases for which diet and exercise would have made a life-death difference during that time frame? Any effective incentive for diet and exercise is great. But, don't buy life insurance if you don't need it just because it's on sale.
3
My previous HMO gave out points for achieving certain "goals" such as wellness exams, even mammograms, x-rays, etc. If you collected a certain number of points, they sent you gift cards for restaurants, stores like Home Depot, etc. They acted like they are some business which rewards you for spending money with them, not a health care organization. Really shady, imo.
My current HMO offers a limited number of "free" rides to doctor appointments. All well and good, but beware. In order to even schedule a simple pick-up and drop-off, they ask you all kinds of questions, some legitimate, some bordering (if not breaking) HIPPA laws. First they ask for the address (legit) and name/phone number of doctor(borderline legit). They then want to know if this is your first visit or have you been there before. They even want to know the doc's speciality you are visiting(all information not legit, imo). When I objected (too much info just for a simple ride to/from doctor's office), they gave me some mumbo jumbo about "needing to verify if the doc I will be seeing is indeed in-network". Hello - I have already had to go through a referral system to obtain an appointment in the first place. They already have verified my membership, so why the third degree for a lousy ride? Something about this smells. I told them they can keep their "free" rides. Not if it means giving up even a small aspect of what I consider private.
My current HMO offers a limited number of "free" rides to doctor appointments. All well and good, but beware. In order to even schedule a simple pick-up and drop-off, they ask you all kinds of questions, some legitimate, some bordering (if not breaking) HIPPA laws. First they ask for the address (legit) and name/phone number of doctor(borderline legit). They then want to know if this is your first visit or have you been there before. They even want to know the doc's speciality you are visiting(all information not legit, imo). When I objected (too much info just for a simple ride to/from doctor's office), they gave me some mumbo jumbo about "needing to verify if the doc I will be seeing is indeed in-network". Hello - I have already had to go through a referral system to obtain an appointment in the first place. They already have verified my membership, so why the third degree for a lousy ride? Something about this smells. I told them they can keep their "free" rides. Not if it means giving up even a small aspect of what I consider private.
6
Gee, a Times review of the Apple watch (with "new tech vistas that may be opened by the first mainstream wearable computer") AND this article on the same day. What a coincidence! Maybe John Hancock should offer the watch to all it's customers. Wouldn't THAT be swell?!?
2
This private information can easily become public with a simple hack of a website. So every Big Mac and fries can potentially be public information. As much as we love to eat healthy meals, no one is perfect, and sometimes we eat fast food or deserts, especially when on the road or at a celebration with friends. I don't want my health insurance knowing what I do in my spare time. Next they will penalize us for watching the wrong shows or hanging out with the wrong crowd of party animals. ("oh no, they had beer and pizza, again"!). It's been proven that if your friends are overweight you have a greater chance of also being overweight. There is no end in sight with this type of surveillance. Thanks George Orwell for warning us.
4
Dear insurer;
Your getting so good at weeding out those of us who might one day possibly file a claim, that there is no reason to buy insurance at all.
Your getting so good at weeding out those of us who might one day possibly file a claim, that there is no reason to buy insurance at all.
12
THIS IS SICK, and it's going on in with health insurance as well as life insurance.
These "incentives" are coercive. I am not interested in being strong-armed (or, as they call it: "incentivized") by the insurance mafia. This is similar to allowing casinos, which already have a "house advantage," to shade things even more in their own favor. I believe the correct word for what they are doing is "racketeering" and that it should be prosecuted as such.
They won't be getting (voluntarily) any of my data. I have already passed up the "offer" of a lower premium. I'm not trading my privacy for this.
These "incentives" are coercive. I am not interested in being strong-armed (or, as they call it: "incentivized") by the insurance mafia. This is similar to allowing casinos, which already have a "house advantage," to shade things even more in their own favor. I believe the correct word for what they are doing is "racketeering" and that it should be prosecuted as such.
They won't be getting (voluntarily) any of my data. I have already passed up the "offer" of a lower premium. I'm not trading my privacy for this.
9
these types of programs have been proven, by study and in articles in medical journals, NOT to work. these are, as usual, insurance company and employer scams to force people who are *already* paying for health coverage to feel guilty, and "failures" for not being perfectly health. (a) sometimes as you get older it is not possible to fit these "ideal" waist and cholesterol number; (b) they refuse to take into account genetic predispositions and (c) they should also take into account family history: if you had parents and grandparents that lived well into their 80s, it's a pretty good chance you will too... health care is expensive enough but some things can't be avoided. pretty soon, if you get cancer, you'll be penalized, if you fall and break a leg doing your "activities" or sports, will your premiums increase?
5
My husband and I bought health insurance for over 15 years because we were afraid of losing our home Just In Case Something Happened to one or both of us. This despite the facts that we live an unusually healthy lifestyle for modern Americans, neither of us has ever had a major health crisis, and the one time we used the insurance was for a minor outpatient surgery - the cost of which, of course, came nowhere near the sum of the premiums we paid.
The insurance companies - there were two through the years - never checked on our health or habits. They merely hiked our rate every single year "due to the rising cost of healthcare" in this country. They hiked it to the point at which we had to walk away. Thank God our income has been low enough lately to qualify for Medical Assistance - and what a strange kind of gratitude that is, no? - because otherwise, the new requirement to buy health insurance would, without exaggeration, utterly destroy us.
We have never accepted, and do not want, any other type of public assistance beyond Social Security and Medicare. That isn't our thing. We mainly want to be left alone and allowed to live our (very healthy) lives. We also supported Obamacare in principle - until we found out the hard way that the insurance companies have used that, too, to hike rates across the board whatever one's physical condition or medical history.
This whole thing is so disgusting that I only wish it were beyond belief.
The insurance companies - there were two through the years - never checked on our health or habits. They merely hiked our rate every single year "due to the rising cost of healthcare" in this country. They hiked it to the point at which we had to walk away. Thank God our income has been low enough lately to qualify for Medical Assistance - and what a strange kind of gratitude that is, no? - because otherwise, the new requirement to buy health insurance would, without exaggeration, utterly destroy us.
We have never accepted, and do not want, any other type of public assistance beyond Social Security and Medicare. That isn't our thing. We mainly want to be left alone and allowed to live our (very healthy) lives. We also supported Obamacare in principle - until we found out the hard way that the insurance companies have used that, too, to hike rates across the board whatever one's physical condition or medical history.
This whole thing is so disgusting that I only wish it were beyond belief.
4
When I stopped working I immediately lost the occupational discount on my auto insurance and my rate went up. Was there any real change in my risk of having an accident? Yes - it was reduced. I was driving far less, more of my driving was driving was done in daytime, and I was better rested and less stressed. Nothing in my driving changed except for the better.
This really drove home to me the statistical fictions on which insurance is based. It works for the company's purposes, but its purposes don't include fairness to individuals.
This really drove home to me the statistical fictions on which insurance is based. It works for the company's purposes, but its purposes don't include fairness to individuals.
12
Can I get a better deal on an annuity if I take up smoking? Maybe I could swipe my card at McDonalds . . .
11
“those healthy enough to do wellness activities may be unrepresentative of the chronically ill ...”
You miss the point, dear professor. All insurance involves risk sharing among similarly-situated individuals. Don't confuse life or health insurance with cost sharing. A program that compels low risk individuals to subsidize high risk individuals is not insurance, it's a tax.
You miss the point, dear professor. All insurance involves risk sharing among similarly-situated individuals. Don't confuse life or health insurance with cost sharing. A program that compels low risk individuals to subsidize high risk individuals is not insurance, it's a tax.
2
More and more automobile insurers are doing something similar, i.e., offering lower rates to those who authorize the placement of a device in their vehicle(s) to track and report one's speed, driving habits, braking practices, roads traveled, etc. in return for a "discount." At some point, those who do not participate, will undoubtedly be penalized. The privacy issues are the same.
16
Yet another step on the slippery slope in the Brave New World! Today it is your exercise data, tomorrow it is your blood and DNA. Then they will decide whether they should insure you at all. Or they will tell your employer that you are too expensive to insure and then when it's cost cutting time - goodbye! Eventually the employers will start making it a condition of employment that you give samples, they will acquire your internet behavioral profile and if you don't cut the mustard, no job offer. If the law does not currently allow it, they will get it changed. Wake up people!
17
Not too far down the road we will be implanted with chips which gather all this data and more.
Sometimes it's not paranoia
Sometimes it's not paranoia
19
I don't believe for a moment that the data collected by John Hancock won't wind up in the hands of folks who don't need to know it. It they don't "sell" the information, it will wind up being hacked.
I sure hope that people who sign up for this sort of thing don't have a problem with NSA spying.
I sure hope that people who sign up for this sort of thing don't have a problem with NSA spying.
10
PCMag.com has an article today on the spread of illegitimate handling of stolen data. Not encouraging news, that.
7
Still, not NSA, just little people out to make a buck... check out the computerworld.com article "AT&T call centers sold mobile customer information to criminals".
2
So, how would any company track my exercise -- which I do from home (left-over from having been a single parent, and yes, because it's more environmentally friendly): yard work, gardening, shoveling, raking, etc; walking and bicycling for pleasure and to do errands and visit friends; using my free weights and erg machine in the attic; running up and down the stairs doing laundry and sometimes even housework; cooking and baking at home; etc etc
7
Your exercise and activity level could be tracked through an activity monitor. John Hancock is giving customers a free Fitbit, but it said other devices could also be used, including those from Garmin, Polar Loop, etc.
4
You're expected to constantly carry some electronic monitoring device on your body. It's basically the predecessor to the implanted microchip.
13
As an early fitbit adopter, I can vouch for the fact that it can track activity in the form of steps. It cannot (at this point) track gardening, shoveling, laundry, bicycling, yoga, lifting weights, etc.
That information has to be entered manually....cool way to cheat the system though!
That information has to be entered manually....cool way to cheat the system though!
1
This isn't really the thin end of the wedge, but I'll still resist it as much as possible. Health insurance and fitness may be nice, soft hooks for consumers but the consequences of misinterpretation or inappropriate/unanticipated sharing could be huge.
7
I believe it is, Margo. I believe it will go like this (over the course of a few years):
Step 1: People receive a discount for providing their health data.
Step 2: People pay a penalty for NOT providing their health data.
Step 3: People are ineligible for insurance UNLESS they provide their data.
Step 1: People receive a discount for providing their health data.
Step 2: People pay a penalty for NOT providing their health data.
Step 3: People are ineligible for insurance UNLESS they provide their data.
5
"Giving out private data for discount" really means those who don't give out private data will be penalized with higher rates.
18
Like the customer affinity cards. Sign up for those cards and you are agreeing to have your data used as the store sees fit. The store is getting paid for your data at some point - there is no free lunch.
Don't sign up and you pay full price... I'll shop elsewhere.
Don't sign up and you pay full price... I'll shop elsewhere.
6
I wonder how they would know if people workout on their own.
If the points only come from swiping a card at a gym, then it seems you either pay the gym or pay the extra insurance. In the end, does it really save you any money?
If the points only come from swiping a card at a gym, then it seems you either pay the gym or pay the extra insurance. In the end, does it really save you any money?
6
My company is already doing this. You are expected to have some electronic logging device on you at all times (If you want your coveted "points"). I'm really not "incentivized" by points. It's one more complex technology hobby I don't want.
5
Great, the insurance companies should pay for my gym membership then. Also, pay for my vegetables, delivered to my door, please. Maybe then I'll consider handing over my details.
14
Don't do it. You may save money at first, but they WILL raise your premiums after they get what they want. No surrender.
26
This is a horrible idea given 1) American companies' horrible track record at securing customer data (looking at you Home Depot, Target, Jimmy Johns, Anthem BCBS et al), 2) A completely unreasonable and out-sized invasion of privacy by a private entity for a tiny and disproportionate "discount" and finally 3) this is a further commodification of personal information, for which one is not paid, nor does one have control over how it is used.
35
It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
22
More like,
A squat grey building of only thirty-four stories. Over the main entrance the words, CENTRAL LONDON HATCHERY AND CONDITIONING CENTRE, and, in a shield, the World State’s motto, COMMUNITY, IDENTITY, STABILITY.
A squat grey building of only thirty-four stories. Over the main entrance the words, CENTRAL LONDON HATCHERY AND CONDITIONING CENTRE, and, in a shield, the World State’s motto, COMMUNITY, IDENTITY, STABILITY.
What you won't find in this article is the reason why insurance companies would be so eager to offer such obviously expensive programs. While getting you to live longer may mean keeping your money for longer or you not receiving any benefit at all, life insurance pays by far the highest commissions to agents. When 19 cents on every dollar is commission and you are talking about a product with a 20 year lifespan, these freebies truly seek to benefit the insurer. Next they'll start paying for smoking cessation programs and gym passes.
7
Some companies are already paying for smoking cessation programs.
1
My health insurance company (Oscar, via Obamacare) does this- they give me a discount for meeting exercise goals. The problem? First day's goal was 2000 steps. I went running and it was over 6000 steps. Next day's goal was 9000 steps. So effectively their system penalized me for a hard workout my first day.
They say the goals will eventually reduce if I don't run every day but in the meantime I'm not getting the financial incentive.
Clearly the new incentive is to move 2000 steps and then take off the fitness tracker.
Shaun Breidbart
www.BrainChampagne.com
They say the goals will eventually reduce if I don't run every day but in the meantime I'm not getting the financial incentive.
Clearly the new incentive is to move 2000 steps and then take off the fitness tracker.
Shaun Breidbart
www.BrainChampagne.com
22
Never trust an (insurance company) bearing gifts. They take care of themselves before they will ever take are of you. Believe me, I know.
22
Insurance is a made-up industry that really has no purpose except to come between doctors and patients. There are some cultures who, when the concept of "insurance" is explained to them, are completely baffled by it, because how could one possibly be "insured" against "harm" from nature? These are cultures that consider themselves part of nature instead of above it, I think.
3
This is horrifying- that people can be persuaded to give themselves over to be creatures owned and directed by a company. Have they lost their minds?
27
You can't believe how people were practically knocking each other down at my work to get their "free" FitBit, and how they proudly hold their wrist up with their electronic tracking device on it as they enter the stairwell rather than taking the elevator. This is all very subtle.
5
About time people with good habits are rewarded. It's not a case of thinking one's 'virtuous behavior' should grant reward, but it is a case of effectively being put into the same lifeboat with those who refuse to make the time to be active, the over-eaters, drunks (I was one, so I can use the term, thankyouverymuch), chain smokers (again, 'twas me) and so forth.
Now if they'd just start giving huge discounts to folks who use non-motorized modes of transportation, I'd be downright giddy.
Now if they'd just start giving huge discounts to folks who use non-motorized modes of transportation, I'd be downright giddy.
5
Do you understand the concept of "insurance pool?" I guess not.
7
Yes, but who gets to decide what is a "good" habit? Is the same diet or type of exercise right for everyone? What if you are in a wheelchair because you were hit by a drunk driver? Shouldn't someone who runs on a soft surface get more points than someone who runs on pavement, because they will incur less damage to their joints? Guess they better break out the microchips to know for sure.
5
What about other hazardous behaviors? Riding a motorcycle (helmeted or not). Mountain climbing. Downhill skiing. Mountain biking. Eating Fugu (puffer-fish). Or exercising too much, as revealed in previous Health columns. Or having chosen your parents badly (hence cholesterol, glucose, blood pressure). There's no stopping.
15
With that logic, all transportation is hazardous, all activity is hazardous, etc. But it need not fall to the irrational, much less the defensive. If one finds it unfair that another gets a discount for being active, perhaps one should consider one's lifestyle.
After all, generally said, being active is healthier than being inactive; being a safe driver, regardless of mode, is (obviously) better than being an unsafe driver; genetic makeup only indicates potentiality - it is not determinative per se.
But excuses for not being active, for not eating moderately and with variety, for watching alcohol intake, for not using tobacco, etc., well that's where there is "no stopping". Perhaps one should stop making excuses.
After all, generally said, being active is healthier than being inactive; being a safe driver, regardless of mode, is (obviously) better than being an unsafe driver; genetic makeup only indicates potentiality - it is not determinative per se.
But excuses for not being active, for not eating moderately and with variety, for watching alcohol intake, for not using tobacco, etc., well that's where there is "no stopping". Perhaps one should stop making excuses.
Perhaps one should stop assuming that inactivity is always a choice.
3
Your reply is a bit aggressive. FYI, I eat well and I am pretty active. My point is that these are all statistical issues. And they are picking on one group of people, because many people (you?) find it acceptable to pick on those people. My points are all valid, but most of yours are not. I never said anything about ALL transportation. But riding is a motorcycle is statistically deadly. And cross-country skiing is MUCH better for you than downhill skiing. And your genes matter. Ever hear of Jim Fixx?
4
In a world where accountability seems to be fleeting, programs like this (with appropriate security and privacy), will benefit those who can and do take care of themselves. Those who can and don't will pay more -- as it should be. Those who can't, of course, shouldn't be penalized.
2
There is no such thing as appropriate security or privacy when it comes to corporations (what major corporation has been hacked this month?). And insurance companies are notoriously lacking in up-to-date technology. Actuarial science is the only thing that should be used to addressed policy premiums!
13
And Republicans and libertarians rail against the Government!!?? Get real and awake. It's corporate America that is turning you into a commodity and destroying your "freedom and liberty". It ain't the government.
32
"And Republicans and libertarians rail against the Government!!?? Get real and awake. "
You do realize this is voluntary, right? The NSA isn't giving us an opt-out of being tracked.
You do realize this is voluntary, right? The NSA isn't giving us an opt-out of being tracked.
But corporations own the government. So...
1
'Wellness' programs, coming to a country near you, through your employer or - and here's the clincher - your health insurance, even if it's not provided by your employer. The Affordable Care Act has a provision for similar incentives, with a discount 'carrot' for those who comply. As far as what sort of incentives those might be, that's headed by a section started with those four favourite words 'The Secretary [of Health and Human Services] shall determine ...'. At least THAT one hasn't started. Yet.
In any case, we can now looks forward to having our every move tracked and reported directly to the insurer and probably the boss, so more and more of us will find that we'd best keep working out - and meeting whatever standards are set, as reported by our wearable tech, if we want to keep working - or at least being spared a big hike in our premiums. Then again, that data, once in the hands of insurers and/or employers, can be sold to aggregators - the folks who make lists of people with this or that condition, lifestyle quirk, or what have you. This could come back to bite you if you need a new job, a loan, or a place to live that's a rental, or condo or co-op, or even a house in a homeowners' association. Remember, we live in a country that has about as much respect for privacy as Antarctica has palm trees.
While George Orwell couldn't anticipate the form the technology would take, in almost all other respects he had it nailed. Houston, we have a problem.
In any case, we can now looks forward to having our every move tracked and reported directly to the insurer and probably the boss, so more and more of us will find that we'd best keep working out - and meeting whatever standards are set, as reported by our wearable tech, if we want to keep working - or at least being spared a big hike in our premiums. Then again, that data, once in the hands of insurers and/or employers, can be sold to aggregators - the folks who make lists of people with this or that condition, lifestyle quirk, or what have you. This could come back to bite you if you need a new job, a loan, or a place to live that's a rental, or condo or co-op, or even a house in a homeowners' association. Remember, we live in a country that has about as much respect for privacy as Antarctica has palm trees.
While George Orwell couldn't anticipate the form the technology would take, in almost all other respects he had it nailed. Houston, we have a problem.
15
What insurance companies hate is price competition. What the insurance industry wants to create is a world where it takes weeks rather than minutes to compare rates. The payoff is the lack of price competition.
The insurance companies would provide a better service to the public if they got rid of all the sales and underwriting and sold the insurance online. The rate of death in age groups in America is a well known fact.
The insurance companies would provide a better service to the public if they got rid of all the sales and underwriting and sold the insurance online. The rate of death in age groups in America is a well known fact.
9
Some do sell life insurance online, without underwriting. The insurance is much more (3 times more) expensive per dollar of coverage. If you're not willing to save that much money by going through underwriting (paramedical exams, and such), you must be really unhealthy.
Yes, this reduces price competition and since term insurance is a bit of a commodity, insurers are most keen to muddy the waters. This reminds me of those "discounts" offered by service providers that must be presented BEFORE the estimate: how do you know you are getting a discount when the base price is a secret? Will these programs mimic the airline status game, where requirements for levels mutate constantly? I don't doubt this is the future, but the benefit to consumers is NOT in price.
3
Remember the days when no rational person would buy term insurance, only whole life. Know why that changed? Not profitable enough, if the policy was taken out at a young age. Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims. They are in the business of collecting ever increasing premiums, as they vacation at the Greenbriar, give out golden gifts to their members, and pay nice dividends to their stockholders.
4
A $75 annual discount for all that hassle? I'd rather pay the $75
40
"I'd rather pay the $75" - and remain unhealthy? The carrot is small but the benefits are huge. I think this is a novel and creative way, in an age of connectivity, to encourage better health.
I don't need a nanny corporation to tell me how to live a healthier lifestyle.
15
How about pay the $75 and remain as healthy as I am, which is pretty darn healthy. Some of us just don't think that the savings is worth the hassle and the invasion of privacy.
Besides that concern, why in the world would someone get credit for playing golf? Most clubs require carts so there is very little beneficial exercise involved in golf, and I speak as a golfer.
Besides that concern, why in the world would someone get credit for playing golf? Most clubs require carts so there is very little beneficial exercise involved in golf, and I speak as a golfer.
16
The way to sell more insurance is for companies to have clear, easily understood policies that are straight forward to service. Complex, difficult to service programs (like this one) don't help or interest most consumers.
17
I've been waiting for health insurance companies to start incentivizing healthy lifestyles this way. It's just the mirror image of disincentives for smoking -- you smoke, you pay a higher premium. You work out regularly, you save a little. You have primary responsibility for your own health, so if you take care of yourself, you shouldn't have to subsidize other people's terrible lifestyle choices at the same rate. This is basic fairness.
In the long run, the more people who sign up and stick with these incentivized policies, the higher the premiums become for everyone else (because they're subsidizing each other's bad habits) -- making the incentive to clean up your lifestyle even stronger. I'd be willing to give up a little privacy for this purpose.
The major hurdles are defining what counts as healthy behavior and ensuring that everyone has access to these opportunities (see: food deserts). There's so much bad science in the field of health and nutrition that I worry what behaviors these companies will incentivize. Dear god please don't listen to the FDA.
In the long run, the more people who sign up and stick with these incentivized policies, the higher the premiums become for everyone else (because they're subsidizing each other's bad habits) -- making the incentive to clean up your lifestyle even stronger. I'd be willing to give up a little privacy for this purpose.
The major hurdles are defining what counts as healthy behavior and ensuring that everyone has access to these opportunities (see: food deserts). There's so much bad science in the field of health and nutrition that I worry what behaviors these companies will incentivize. Dear god please don't listen to the FDA.
3
This is naive. Bad science around nutrition is not a hurdle. It is a potentially negative outcome. 30 years ago we were supposed to eat margarine, not butter. Nutrition is still a pseudoscience.
This is not a discount. This is the beginning of corporations demanding intimate knowledge of our lives in order to receive a fair market price.
Rich people will never have to be demeaningly measured like this!!!
Wake up people.
This is not a discount. This is the beginning of corporations demanding intimate knowledge of our lives in order to receive a fair market price.
Rich people will never have to be demeaningly measured like this!!!
Wake up people.
12
@KRP: Health insurance companies are already doing this. Mine wants me to hand over lots of confidential data (that they have no legal right to have), so they can "monitor" my health, in exchange for a lower premium. My answer, now and always is: HELL, NO! I am paying the higher premiums.
You argue that those who stick to incentivized insurance are healthier - that is your opinion, not a proven fact. You clearly do NOT comprehend what insurance is, and what "insurance pools" are about.
Your willingness to "give up a little privacy for this purpose" is your choice, but in my eyes, you are making a foolish bargain with the devil.
You argue that those who stick to incentivized insurance are healthier - that is your opinion, not a proven fact. You clearly do NOT comprehend what insurance is, and what "insurance pools" are about.
Your willingness to "give up a little privacy for this purpose" is your choice, but in my eyes, you are making a foolish bargain with the devil.
3
Doesn't the NSA already have this data?
19
But John Hancock doesn't want to pay the NSA data fees.
2
Firstly, it's painful just looking at the CEO attempting to stretch -- he obviously doesn't do it much, and he's doing it wrong.
Secondly, while this plan sounds good on paper, you can be guaranteed that your tracked health data will be used against you at some point. There are so many questions to be answered: Who owns the data? What will be done to secure the data from hackers? Will participants get to see the aggregate data from other persons who participate to determine whether they are in fact getting any discount on the insurance?
The devil is in the details here.
Secondly, while this plan sounds good on paper, you can be guaranteed that your tracked health data will be used against you at some point. There are so many questions to be answered: Who owns the data? What will be done to secure the data from hackers? Will participants get to see the aggregate data from other persons who participate to determine whether they are in fact getting any discount on the insurance?
The devil is in the details here.
34
Do you really think there are nefarious cyber criminals out there waiting to pounce on data about often you go to the gym? Any personal information that might actually be of interest to hackers is already being collected and stored by every other kind of life insurance product available.
3
Greg, anyone else would have to follow me to know when I go to yoga class. Share the data and expose where I am and what I do and someone will try to take advantage of that in one way or another. At the lesser end of the scale it could be spam email and robo-calls... At the other end ut could be robbery. You cannot predict what will happen.
Plus, where is the data being maintained? There's a very good chance it is in India where the privacy laws do not protect us.
Feel free to do what tou want, I'm out of it.
Plus, where is the data being maintained? There's a very good chance it is in India where the privacy laws do not protect us.
Feel free to do what tou want, I'm out of it.
4
Nanny state, nope nanny business.
"The company is notified when he swipes his membership card, and 30 minutes later, it checks that he is still there, tracking his location through his smartphone."
This is the part that I really have trouble with, but I suspect being part of the Boomers plays a part in it. Many younger people I know do not seem to have any problem with being tracked with little idea of who can access and use that data.
I use a pedometer and software to keep track of what I do. We have an opportunity to get a FitBit product through our health insurance plan. I was tempted because of certain features, but the fact that my data is basically broadcast was a privacy issue for me.
This also seem to penalize those with preexisting conditions who may not be able to follow a "healthy" lifestyle.
"The company is notified when he swipes his membership card, and 30 minutes later, it checks that he is still there, tracking his location through his smartphone."
This is the part that I really have trouble with, but I suspect being part of the Boomers plays a part in it. Many younger people I know do not seem to have any problem with being tracked with little idea of who can access and use that data.
I use a pedometer and software to keep track of what I do. We have an opportunity to get a FitBit product through our health insurance plan. I was tempted because of certain features, but the fact that my data is basically broadcast was a privacy issue for me.
This also seem to penalize those with preexisting conditions who may not be able to follow a "healthy" lifestyle.
29
Yes, it's your fault you have diabetes, heart murmur, MS, arthritis, depression... Get out there and fix yourself with exercise, so we don't have to pay for your treatment!
6
Let's see...Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, Cancer, Down Syndrome, blindness, rheumatoid arthritis...need I go on?
5
It's a life insurance company, not a health insurance company. Life insurance companies do not pay for medical treatment. Current underwriting practices for life insurance already rule out people with many pre-existing conditions. So the notion that this is to be used to weed out or charge more for people with health problems is ridiculous - life insurance coverage wouldn't be available anyway except at excessively high rates or perhaps through an employer.
And this is elective coverage - no one is forcing anyone to buy this or any other product. Honestly, you could probably get more private information off of the facebook accounts of half the people here that are so paranoid about their workout data than this company would ever receive.
And this is elective coverage - no one is forcing anyone to buy this or any other product. Honestly, you could probably get more private information off of the facebook accounts of half the people here that are so paranoid about their workout data than this company would ever receive.
1
I was at a company that used the Vitality program in conjunction with health insurance. It is a total win-win, wish I could get it again. It encourages a healthy lifestyle, and rewards with healthy things like defraying gym membership and reduced price hotel stays. Behavioral economics at its best!
1
Insurance companies as behavior police? Tracking thy every move. George Orwell meet Willy Loman.
26
What's next -- putting cameras into every room of your house to make sure you're not eating junk food on the sly? A life without personal privacy isn't a life worth living.
37
Who really thinks this is a good trend, more and more information about you in a big database that we can be sure will never be sold or broken into.
18