Sitting with both feet on the floor is an uncomfortable position, and sooner or later it cuts into the ability to pay attention. Look at any group of adults at a meeting or lecture or any gathering where they are doing some serious listening. Unless they've been ordered to keep their feet flat on the floor, I can almost guarantee that they'll have their feet in some other position.
4
While it remains to be seen if SA’s approach will result in long-term achievement, one wonders whether the scholars produced by the SA system will be prepared for the challenges and opportunities that come with higher education without social and emotional learning. Dr. Maurice Elias, an expert on SEL from Rutgers University, maintains “Emotional well-being is dramatically and positively predictive not only of academic achievement, but also of satisfactory and productive experiences in the world of work and of better physical health. Hundreds of studies have documented the positive effects of SEL on children of diverse backgrounds from preschool through high school in urban, suburban, and rural settings. The research clearly demonstrates that SEL programming significantly improves children’s academic performance on standardized tests. Moreover, compared to control groups, children who have participated in SEL programs have significantly better school attendance records, less disruptive classroom behavior, like school more, and perform better in school. Twenty years ago, I founded a non-profit organization to implement SEL for underserved students. We are focused on specifically addressing the social aspects of education. While we believe that Success Academy is justified in their approach to remake the systemically flawed status quo, we’d love to see a more integrated, “whole-child” strategy to build young scholars.www.urbantech.org
6
As a New York City public school teacher in Brooklyn I have no criticisms of Eva Moscowitz's tough teaching strategies, disciplinary approach and high suspension rates. I do, however, get annoyed when she compares her test scores to the public school and pats herself on the back without first acknowledging that she could not achieve those scores without relying on the public schools to absorb her low performing students. The public schools also take on the onus of educating the high population of English language learners and special-education students throughout New York City. She wouldn't last one day with the student population I teach.
8
You're right, Moskowitz wouldn't last an hour in a public school where she couldn't carefully control which students she deigns to teach. You're right that her schools would be an abject failure (obviously, I mean, not buried as they currently are) if they didn't have public schools to absorb the kids they don't want.
But really? You're okay with forcing kids to wet themselves?
But really? You're okay with forcing kids to wet themselves?
11
As I wrote elsewhere in this comment section, please be careful about what you are implying.
If you are suggesting that SA's 96% pass rate is due to attrition of the underperforming students, then, under the assumption that SA's initial applicant body resembles that of its' co-located public school, it would have to rid itself of 96% of its' initial class. In other words, for a school to move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate, that public school would have to expel 96% of its' students.
That is clearly not happening at SA. It sounds like the attrition rate may be as high as 50% at some SA schools. That would change a group of students with a 4% pass rate into a group of students with an 8% pass rate. SA has a 96% pass rate.
The reason for SA's success is clearly not simple attrition.
If you are suggesting that SA's 96% pass rate is due to attrition of the underperforming students, then, under the assumption that SA's initial applicant body resembles that of its' co-located public school, it would have to rid itself of 96% of its' initial class. In other words, for a school to move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate, that public school would have to expel 96% of its' students.
That is clearly not happening at SA. It sounds like the attrition rate may be as high as 50% at some SA schools. That would change a group of students with a 4% pass rate into a group of students with an 8% pass rate. SA has a 96% pass rate.
The reason for SA's success is clearly not simple attrition.
3
I agreed with dab. There may very well be self selection and forced attrition but neither can explain away the drastic improvement in test scores.
When we have public schools where less
Than 5% kids are reading - that is 1 in 20- I can understand why Some public school teachers and administrators are defensive. But shouldn't we focus the discussion on how to bring 70% illiterate kids back from the abyss ? What are they going to do for a living? How long do we wait for more public school 'reforms'? Testing well may not guarantee a spot at Harvard, but don't you see it's the other side of the coin that matters-- it is the large majority who are failing that is saying something . Am I the only one only one befuddled at absurd discussion of SA kids and Stuyvesant ?
When we have public schools where less
Than 5% kids are reading - that is 1 in 20- I can understand why Some public school teachers and administrators are defensive. But shouldn't we focus the discussion on how to bring 70% illiterate kids back from the abyss ? What are they going to do for a living? How long do we wait for more public school 'reforms'? Testing well may not guarantee a spot at Harvard, but don't you see it's the other side of the coin that matters-- it is the large majority who are failing that is saying something . Am I the only one only one befuddled at absurd discussion of SA kids and Stuyvesant ?
3
So Ms. Moskowitz claims to be using the time-tested methods that have prevailed during most of the history of American schools. That time-tested approach was the punitive approach, with corporal punishment (for the time being still illegal), and the assumption that the only reason for bad performance is laziness. And with public shaming - the red zone is the dunce cap of the 21st century. Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it's good.
When I worked in Harlem, there were as many buyers of lottery tickets in the local grocery stores as buyers of food and drink. And no wonder - playing the lottery is the Hail Mary pass out of poverty. I suspect the lottery for charter schools is the same kind of Hail Mary pass.
Are there any politicians who send their children to charter schools?
When I worked in Harlem, there were as many buyers of lottery tickets in the local grocery stores as buyers of food and drink. And no wonder - playing the lottery is the Hail Mary pass out of poverty. I suspect the lottery for charter schools is the same kind of Hail Mary pass.
Are there any politicians who send their children to charter schools?
4
There was a recent article detailing where Michigan politicians sent their kids to school, and exactly one sent her kids to a charter. I'm surprised it was that high, but then again you're not required to be intelligent to be elected.
7
Eric, where are these politicians sending their kids? Inner city public schools where 5 percent kids are reading at grade level?
2
I am a public school graduate whose parents did not attend college. My home life was chaotic, and school was my ticket out. I was accepted to UC Berkeley in 2003, and I graduated in 2007. I am now working toward my Master of Education because I truly believe in the power of education to reshape our society for the better.
While I can appreciate the role that structure and discipline play in a person's academic and career success, I feel that what is going on at Success is too severe, and may in fact be damaging for many of the children. I believe that there is a need for deep healing in our nation's depressed communities, not added tension. Speaking from my own personal experience, I do not think that children growing up in poverty or in distressed neighborhoods need their school (where they spend the majority of their waking hours) to reinforce the harshness of the world. They need to be guided to their passions and interests so that they can access their own internal curiosity and motivation to learn.
While test scores offer some helpful information, they certainly do not provide the entire picture. We are not testing students on compassion, kindness, artistic abilities and appreciation, health, or social skills. I think that there is potential at Success to effectively serve their children, but this superficial obsession with test scores ultimately misses the mark.
While I can appreciate the role that structure and discipline play in a person's academic and career success, I feel that what is going on at Success is too severe, and may in fact be damaging for many of the children. I believe that there is a need for deep healing in our nation's depressed communities, not added tension. Speaking from my own personal experience, I do not think that children growing up in poverty or in distressed neighborhoods need their school (where they spend the majority of their waking hours) to reinforce the harshness of the world. They need to be guided to their passions and interests so that they can access their own internal curiosity and motivation to learn.
While test scores offer some helpful information, they certainly do not provide the entire picture. We are not testing students on compassion, kindness, artistic abilities and appreciation, health, or social skills. I think that there is potential at Success to effectively serve their children, but this superficial obsession with test scores ultimately misses the mark.
10
Lest we forget that Eva Moskowitz makes $475,000 per year---lest we forget that the first Success Academy was founded by hedge fund managers--lest we forget that Moskowitz *required* (forced) ALL SA students and parents to march again Bill DeBlasio on the Brooklyn Bridge during the mayoral campaign--because DeBlasio dared to suggest that charter schools should be held accountable to the space they take up just as public schools are required to do so.
Eva Moskowitz is the CEO of a corporation that profits off of rigidly disciplining and stifling creativity of black and brown children. She does it with a corporate mind: suing for privacy, targeting low-income families, and making millions while public school teachers and principals struggle to make ends meet.
Thank you for this article. I hope others are similarly enraged and join the cause against Moskowitz.
Eva Moskowitz is the CEO of a corporation that profits off of rigidly disciplining and stifling creativity of black and brown children. She does it with a corporate mind: suing for privacy, targeting low-income families, and making millions while public school teachers and principals struggle to make ends meet.
Thank you for this article. I hope others are similarly enraged and join the cause against Moskowitz.
13
Sorry but SA is just a scam to make a few people rich. And keep the poor in their place. A few "educated minorities" will not change what needs changing in this country.
Privileged kids in the best schools don't participate in this testing folly. They get what they need, no questions asked. All children deserve the same, questions asked.
And what about all children of all backgrounds attending school together? Or living in the same neighborhoods together? That would do a lot more for fixing our education issues than pressure cooker "schools" where teachers are only in their 20s. And eliminate poverty, pay living wages so parents don't have to work 3 jobs, get rid of segregation in housing and many of our ills in this country will be eliminated, including the "ills" affecting education.
Privileged kids in the best schools don't participate in this testing folly. They get what they need, no questions asked. All children deserve the same, questions asked.
And what about all children of all backgrounds attending school together? Or living in the same neighborhoods together? That would do a lot more for fixing our education issues than pressure cooker "schools" where teachers are only in their 20s. And eliminate poverty, pay living wages so parents don't have to work 3 jobs, get rid of segregation in housing and many of our ills in this country will be eliminated, including the "ills" affecting education.
8
As much as I keep hearing stories about the positive sides of charter schools in the states, one thing about them keeps bugging me: they seem to mean that a lot of parents, teachers and politicians have given up on improving public schools over there altogether -- rather than even attempt to fix a failing system, they prefer to just start again from scratch.
Isn't the whole idea behind public schools that all children, of all backgrounds, can get a decent education? Isn't using any other form basically segregation?
In Ontario, we don't have charter schools. What we do have is a public education system that works and Canadian standards and ideals of equality. I managed to go to a good Ontario university after the public school system, and our community colleges are internationally recognized as well (my coworker came over from India to go to Mohawk College -- not university, trade school). I'd say our system works.
Isn't the whole idea behind public schools that all children, of all backgrounds, can get a decent education? Isn't using any other form basically segregation?
In Ontario, we don't have charter schools. What we do have is a public education system that works and Canadian standards and ideals of equality. I managed to go to a good Ontario university after the public school system, and our community colleges are internationally recognized as well (my coworker came over from India to go to Mohawk College -- not university, trade school). I'd say our system works.
6
The "failing" public schools are really only failing in the narratives pushed by those who want to profit from charters or vouchers. In reality, kids who show up, behave, and do the work are going to get a much better education in public schools than in charters, or even than in private schools.
You're right that charters represent an abandonment of public responsibility, but it's based on a lie. Those who will profit from that abandonment are selling a myth to justify it. The public schools aren't failing. But the charters sure are. You just have to understand what you're looking at to see it.
You're right that charters represent an abandonment of public responsibility, but it's based on a lie. Those who will profit from that abandonment are selling a myth to justify it. The public schools aren't failing. But the charters sure are. You just have to understand what you're looking at to see it.
8
So there is no problem with a school where 95 percent of children are not reading at grade level. According to your line of thinking - nothing needs to be done because public school is a much better education?
This is why charter school comes about in the first place. SA may not be the answer but frankly , people like you are frightening .
I hope you are not a teacher.
This is why charter school comes about in the first place. SA may not be the answer but frankly , people like you are frightening .
I hope you are not a teacher.
2
Did anyone else think the line about "resetting your carpet expectations" sounded like a line out of some dystopian novel?
7
“You have been so careful of me that I never had a child’s heart. You have trained me so well that I never dreamed a child’s dream. You have dealt so wisely with me, Father, from my cradle to this hour, that I never had a child’s belief or a child’s fear."
Mr. Gradgrind was quite moved by his success, and by this testimony to it.
"My dear Louisa,” said he, "you abundantly repay my care. Kiss me, my dear girl.”
― Charles Dickens, Hard Times
Mr. Gradgrind was quite moved by his success, and by this testimony to it.
"My dear Louisa,” said he, "you abundantly repay my care. Kiss me, my dear girl.”
― Charles Dickens, Hard Times
7
With all respect, what 26-year-old has the professional and life experience to guide an entire school full of teachers? That's at most five years of experience fresh out of undergrad. Respecting teachers means selecting principals who are experienced professionals (ideally with substantive professional degrees) who know the industry and can speak with the authority to lead.
If these methods are so "success"-ful the apply them at public schools where seasoned professionals can guide all students, not just the ones who are deemed worth of "Success." Something tells me that without weeding out and shaming poor performing students as charters schools do, their "Success" would look a lot like "failure."
If these methods are so "success"-ful the apply them at public schools where seasoned professionals can guide all students, not just the ones who are deemed worth of "Success." Something tells me that without weeding out and shaming poor performing students as charters schools do, their "Success" would look a lot like "failure."
20
Thank you for this illuminating article. I grew up in NYC's public school system. Now my children are in public school here in Connecticut, out of range of the Charter School/Public School culture war, at least for now. Your profile of Eva Moskowitz brought it all back to me; and in focus: another crypto-fascist getting a free pass because, well, she gets "results". Now I can understand the motivation for all the years of Social Conservative ducking, weaving, and false flagging over the efficacy of "Charter Schools". Another excuse to beggar the public school system by distracting everyone with an illusory 'alternative". It was only a few years ago when 'alternative schools' were built to offer the obverse of what these reactionary social fabulists are selling.
14
"Ms. Moskowitz asks a lot of participation from parents, as a condition of admitting their children. She told one group, "If you know you cannot commit to all that we ask of you this year, this is not the place for you."
From the NY Times, the Educational Crusader Slideshow, 11/03/2008
Every public school that educates ONLY the students with parents who commit to all that is asked of them has good results. Most charter schools actually want to educate the students who might NOT have parents who can commit to their education, since those are the parents of at-risk students. In fact, that is supposed to be the students NY State charter schools were directed to focus on.
By the way, although I believe that teachers' unions are not perfect, this article provides a huge reason that they are IMPORTANT! The abuse that has been going on for years at the Success Academy schools in low-income neighborhoods, and the teachers are terrified to speak out. Everyone is afraid to cross the most powerful woman in education, who is able to thwart the results of a NYC Mayoral election and force NYC taxpayers to pay the rent for her schools, so she can use millions in donations for what? Fancy Wall Street office space? Busing students to political rallies to prove how powerful she is?
From the NY Times, the Educational Crusader Slideshow, 11/03/2008
Every public school that educates ONLY the students with parents who commit to all that is asked of them has good results. Most charter schools actually want to educate the students who might NOT have parents who can commit to their education, since those are the parents of at-risk students. In fact, that is supposed to be the students NY State charter schools were directed to focus on.
By the way, although I believe that teachers' unions are not perfect, this article provides a huge reason that they are IMPORTANT! The abuse that has been going on for years at the Success Academy schools in low-income neighborhoods, and the teachers are terrified to speak out. Everyone is afraid to cross the most powerful woman in education, who is able to thwart the results of a NYC Mayoral election and force NYC taxpayers to pay the rent for her schools, so she can use millions in donations for what? Fancy Wall Street office space? Busing students to political rallies to prove how powerful she is?
19
No human creation is perfect. Teachers' unions are overwhelmingly a positive force in education.
That's why opportunists like Moskowitz who want to benefit from the destruction of education spend so much time, money, and energy attacking the unions.
That's why opportunists like Moskowitz who want to benefit from the destruction of education spend so much time, money, and energy attacking the unions.
8
For all the investigative reporting in this article about teacher attrition rates, it's surprising the article doesn't address student attrition more seriously. Suspension rates are discussed, but it is only hinted that students leave permanently. My understanding is that the sizes of the graduating classes at Success Academies are down substantially from the entering classes - and not because students moved away. Statistically, if you have a class or grade of 25 students, it only takes a few students to "mess up" your achievement gain scores. Hence, it is much easier to encourage these students to leave by creating a very uncomfortable culture for them and their families. It would have been useful to see real data about these student attrition rates.
17
As a graduate of the NYC public schools and the parent of a child in a charter school in Boston I am sickened by what I read in this article. Children do not deserve to be treated this way. It is outrageous that Ms. Moskowitz blames the child for peeing his or her pants. It is outrageous that these practices flourish in schools full of black and brown children. Why do we put up with this Ferguson-like treatment of our children? I have come to the realization that 1) a curriculum that is narrowly-crafted to produce great results on state standardized tests will not produce a child that has the critical thinking or other skills necessary to do well in college. Look at the college completion rate or performance on other standardized tests like the SAT or high school entrance exams. An earlier article in the NYT mentioned that one year none of the 8th grade students at SA tested into the NYC exam schools. 2) The rigid discipline process and high teacher turnover go hand in hand. It is simple. If you have a very rigid and clearly defined discipline system, as described here, then when one teacher leaves, you can just put the new teacher in, and have him or her follow the protocols to produce consistent results. In other words, being inflexible allows these schools to sustain a very high rate of teacher turnover, and a large pool of inexperienced teachers, and produce high test scores. But those teachers may not have the skills or experience to teach a wider curriculum.
11
And that is why there can be a 26-year-old principal. Following the rules is all there is.
3
This is what "successful" charters do. This is the model.
I'm glad you're upset. But by enrolling your kid you're also supporting it.
I'm glad you're upset. But by enrolling your kid you're also supporting it.
2
I heard that NYC public schools spend close to $20,000 a year per student. So how much does Success Academy spends per student?
2
That is a misleading number. It often includes the following: RETIRED teacher pensions, which is charged only to every public school student and not to any charter school student. Care and maintenance of buildings, custodians, allocated rent charges that are also charged to each PUBLIC school student and not charter school student. ADMINISTRATIVE costs in the DOE, which are also only charged to public school students. BUSING, etc, which may also only be charged to public school students. SPECIAL NEEDS! One special needs child may need a person assigned to him at all times! That entire salary/benefits is charged to the public school budgets since very few (if any) of those special needs students are found at Success Academy.
I challenge you, Amanda123. Let's open the books and find out exactly how much Success Academy spends in total each year and how it is spent. Then let's look at the failing public school's salary and materials cost and see how much is spent for each non-special needs student. Agree?
I challenge you, Amanda123. Let's open the books and find out exactly how much Success Academy spends in total each year and how it is spent. Then let's look at the failing public school's salary and materials cost and see how much is spent for each non-special needs student. Agree?
5
"Successful" charters always spend more than public schools; they've got roughly the same public funding and generous private donations on top of it. And usually, they've got far fewer LEP and special education kids, so they've got a student population that should be cheaper to teach.
They'll sometimes brag that they get their test results (which, if they're higher than those of public schools, which is a rarity, it's only because of ruthlessly cherry-picking students) with the same "public" funding, but they're always careful to put that word in there: "public." If you get $15,000 in public funding per student and $15,000 in private funding, you've got a lot more to spend than the public school that has ONLY the equivalent public funding.
They'll sometimes brag that they get their test results (which, if they're higher than those of public schools, which is a rarity, it's only because of ruthlessly cherry-picking students) with the same "public" funding, but they're always careful to put that word in there: "public." If you get $15,000 in public funding per student and $15,000 in private funding, you've got a lot more to spend than the public school that has ONLY the equivalent public funding.
5
SA Parents: Just one--tell me your child was denied or afraid to ask permission to go to the bathroom and because of that wet himself/herself in school, and you were OK with that.
Or tell me that it is untrue that children at SA Harlem frequently wet themselves because they are denied or afraid to ask permission to go to the bathroom.
So far, from what I can judge by comments, the happy SA parents have children in other Manhattan or in Brooklyn SA schools. The comments section is not overwhelmed by responses from SA Harlem parents refuting this story.
Other than the Moscowitz children, how many white children are enrolled at SA Harlem? What is the ethnic breakdown at all other SA schools?
Why are commenters concerned about the abuse of children at SA Harlem derided for their "white elitist/middle-class values?" If it is a white elitist value to insist that all children be treated with loving firmness, when discipline is required, rather than with re-education camp doctrinaire abuse, count me among the Blessed Elect.
The truly vicious racism inherent in believing that any child requires the level of mind-control displayed at SA Harlem is pretty distressing--even more so when occasionally expressed here by black parents.
To summarize the main idea in this reading selection: waiting for the parent body and teaching staff at SA Harlem to refute this story, point by point.
Or tell me that it is untrue that children at SA Harlem frequently wet themselves because they are denied or afraid to ask permission to go to the bathroom.
So far, from what I can judge by comments, the happy SA parents have children in other Manhattan or in Brooklyn SA schools. The comments section is not overwhelmed by responses from SA Harlem parents refuting this story.
Other than the Moscowitz children, how many white children are enrolled at SA Harlem? What is the ethnic breakdown at all other SA schools?
Why are commenters concerned about the abuse of children at SA Harlem derided for their "white elitist/middle-class values?" If it is a white elitist value to insist that all children be treated with loving firmness, when discipline is required, rather than with re-education camp doctrinaire abuse, count me among the Blessed Elect.
The truly vicious racism inherent in believing that any child requires the level of mind-control displayed at SA Harlem is pretty distressing--even more so when occasionally expressed here by black parents.
To summarize the main idea in this reading selection: waiting for the parent body and teaching staff at SA Harlem to refute this story, point by point.
8
SCA has now jumped the shark, accusing SA --which aims to bring 1st class education to poor kids-- of racism. It's simple, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there, but they are obviously doing something right and for the 2000+ kids that get in and the 18000 who would like to get it the trade-off is clearly worth it.
But there is something else going on here... I wouldn't be surprised to find that SCA is a union drone who is waging jihad on charter schools because their very existence and obvious success is an indictment of the union controlled public school system.
But there is something else going on here... I wouldn't be surprised to find that SCA is a union drone who is waging jihad on charter schools because their very existence and obvious success is an indictment of the union controlled public school system.
4
TPierre Changstien seems to approve of the fact that the Success Academy schools that have almost all low-income students treat their students with these harsh disciplinary methods, while the Success Academy schools that have almost all middle and high-income students treat them respectfully. Since he hates unions, I guess he believes that unions demand that poor students be treated with the same respect as rich ones. Since he thinks it is fine to have a double standard depending on your family income, I can understand why he is so offended by SCA's post.
5
If it's popular, it must be good. Even if it's only popular because of misleading advertising and propaganda. Great logic.
McDonald's, obviously, is the best restaurant on the planet.
McDonald's, obviously, is the best restaurant on the planet.
3
These 'Success" charter schools act like Catholic schools of the 70-80s. The nuns used to get off on humiliation and tearing up your paper. Even then I made fun of their culture, clothes, and self righteousness. But education is a business, it doesn't matter that I was caustic in my attitude: the education they gave me allowed me to do most of my Algebra, History, and Biology using my middle school composition books. So many students don't understand how crucial it is to take notes carefully and methodically and use them. Most of today's students belong in "effort" camps. Students' feelings and Parent concerns are negligible in these charters - but you can't impose this culture in a regular public school. These schools should have asterisks since they aren't all inclusive: they're exclusive.
3
Ms. Moskowitz had a number of opportunities to observe a really top school when she was a member of the City Council. She visited Robert F. Wagner, Sr. middle school, MS 167M on a number of occasions. When my daughter was a student there some ten years ago, about one third of the graduating class was admitted to one of the testings schools (e.g., Stuyvesant), or LaGuardia high school (Fame school). A number were admitted to both, and also other top high schools.
Wagner had a full range of subjects, including art and music. But Ms. Moskowitz never stayed any longer than she had to when she appeared to make an award, or for any other reason. She couldn't wait to get out of the building. Compare her behavior to Councilman Donovan Richards who visits the schools when he doesn't have to, and on official visits spends time with students and staff.
Ms. Moskowitz' Success Academy reminds me of a visit to a Kappa charter school. The children marched like puppets up and down the hall. Not the behavior that we had when the building was home to one of the city's top high schools. where Merit semi-finalists and Regents scholarships filled the building.
Wagner had a full range of subjects, including art and music. But Ms. Moskowitz never stayed any longer than she had to when she appeared to make an award, or for any other reason. She couldn't wait to get out of the building. Compare her behavior to Councilman Donovan Richards who visits the schools when he doesn't have to, and on official visits spends time with students and staff.
Ms. Moskowitz' Success Academy reminds me of a visit to a Kappa charter school. The children marched like puppets up and down the hall. Not the behavior that we had when the building was home to one of the city's top high schools. where Merit semi-finalists and Regents scholarships filled the building.
8
I looked hard for some mention of critical thinking, but found only military-style discipline, shaming, and pressure on the most vulnerable-- those who come from difficult or unsupportive homes.
What profits it a student who manages to pass the tests which -- we are assured -- will help him/her get into an Ivy League college? The student with no idea how to think, but only to conform to mandated norms will flounder in the freer, more demanding atmosphere of university.
It is alarming to see New York politicians evading their responsibility to taxpayers by pouring money into profit-making "educational" enterprises,
What profits it a student who manages to pass the tests which -- we are assured -- will help him/her get into an Ivy League college? The student with no idea how to think, but only to conform to mandated norms will flounder in the freer, more demanding atmosphere of university.
It is alarming to see New York politicians evading their responsibility to taxpayers by pouring money into profit-making "educational" enterprises,
11
Regarding the practice of giving toys and candy as rewards, as a Success Academy parent, I have never seen candy given out. It is against school policy at our location. They do give the kids the occasional ice-cream party though. And yes, the children often get to select prizes as reward for achievement, and those prizes may include toys. But really, is there anything wrong with that? They are kids after all, and the occasional silly prize is a lovely thing. On the one hand many comments here suggest that Success is too harsh, but then it is criticized for providing some simple childhood fun. So which is it? Readers should also know that there are many books among the prizes. My 3rd grade daughter recently selected a fabulous non-fiction book about animal behavior to bring home. Love of reading is fostered with tremendous success at...well…Success. Kids also love going out to lunch with a teacher or the principal as a reward. There is a palpable affection between teachers and students, and a warmth to the feeling of the school, despite the discipline. I would also note that rewards for achievement are tailored to the individual child. Children know what their individual goals are, and work to meet those goals, which will vary from child to child. The teachers know EXACTLY where EACH child is in their path to achieving grade level mastery, and ease each child along. I don't mean to say that all is perfect at Success, but a lot is great.
7
"...at our location..."
Yes, Exactly. I doubt you as a parent would tolerate what is going on at the specific school profiled in this article.
Yes, Exactly. I doubt you as a parent would tolerate what is going on at the specific school profiled in this article.
4
Actually, there is something wrong with prizes for achievement. It provides external motivation for expected behavior rather than internal motivation. As soon as the kids stop earning prizes, they lose all motivation to continue the behavior. However, if you teach kids internal motivation, the behavior will stick with them for life. Want a child to read more? Help her find a subject she enjoys, and allow her to read that. She'll learn to love reading. The danger of rewarding positive behavior is called the over-justification effect: if you reward a person who already loves to read for his good behavior, he will actually like reading less once those rewards are gone.
Something all parents should keep in mind, not only teachers.
Something all parents should keep in mind, not only teachers.
9
According to the book "The Smartest Kids in the World"--which compared school systems in the US, Finland, Poland, and South Korea--the best answer to the U.S.'s education woes is high-level teacher training and de-emphasizing the primacy of sports. Taylor's article mentions that the teachers at Success Academy come from college and continue to receive training and feedback while teaching, even during class. I imagine teacher support varies widely at public schools. In addition, Success Academy obviously puts the focus of the school squarely on academic performance, not sports. Other public schools frequently hire teachers primarily as coaches and secondarily as teachers, and the standards are not very high for hiring, depending on the school.
Maybe the reasons for SA's successes are something we could replicate across the country without taking draconian measures.
Maybe the reasons for SA's successes are something we could replicate across the country without taking draconian measures.
3
US public schools (which SA schools aren't, really) outperform Finland's if levels of student poverty are taken into account.
The book you cite is misleading, at best.
The book you cite is misleading, at best.
2
The NYC student passing rate of 29% for reading and 35% for math isn't just a problem - it's a CRISIS. I'm not saying I like or agree with everything I just read about the Success program. But show me one student who has consistently passed the NYS reading and math tests under the Success program and will not be ready for college upon graduation; my guess is that student won't be easy to find. I understand the complaints that there is too much emphasis on tests, that the program won't provide children with critical thinking skills, nor allow creativity. But, again, we have a crisis in the city, and in my opinion, the NYC's immediate goal should be to provide children with the skills necessary to apply themselves and thrive in college so that they have the opportunity of choice for the rest of their lives. It seems to me that Success Academy is doing exactly that.
8
Exactly - this seems like common sense to me . Frankly there is no other way to see this - SA ain't perfect , but it is better than status quo. Period.
6
Let's not forget that the actual nys test is very poorly written and does not assess valid skills. It's pretty much a waste of time for the educational system and a huge cash cow for Pearson, who then pays off the politicians.
Since it's only the poor kids who suffer, who cares?
Since it's only the poor kids who suffer, who cares?
5
Allow NYC public schools to pick and choose which kids they'll teach, as SA schools can, and their results will be better for the simple reason that public school instruction is almost always better than charter school instruction.
SA benefits from the fact that the damage it's doing to kids' education is only apparent to people who understand the system. They can fool the ignorant into supporting them.
SA benefits from the fact that the damage it's doing to kids' education is only apparent to people who understand the system. They can fool the ignorant into supporting them.
2
The cavalier manner in which Ms. Moskowitz defends stressed out children urinating in their pants, as well as other abusive policies, is very disturbing. I find the whole SA charter chain scenario horrifying, from the regents who authorize her charters and give her carte blanche to take over public school space through insidious co-locations where her product is not needed or wanted, to her lawsuit to avoid being audited, to her millions of dollars spent on PR. The idea behind charters originally was to be able to be innovative. Supposedly, charter CEO's were going to educate children in areas that schools were "failing," better and cheaper. Instead, she commands a salary of over half a million dollars and is setting her sights on public school real estate in more affluent neighborhoods. As far as her schools, I fail to see anything innovative about her punitive model. With millions given to SA by hedge funders and the like as well tax tax payer money, it's most apparent that her charter chain is not sustainable or advantageous for New York City school children.
10
Her lawsuit to avoid being audited? Hey, Ms. Moskowitz, have you ever heard of accountability - or is that only for the little people?
3
We chose SA for our child not because we didn't have any other options, but because we wanted a private school calibre education in a diverse public school. I would like to say that this decision was about social justice; that having worked for a number of NYC public schools (from those in the 'right' zip code to those which serve primarily students from public housing) I was beyond frustrated by the discrepancy in education, despite the dedication of teachers, simply because of resources.
The rumor that SA demoralizes students is a myth. Yes, SA is strict. It has a consistent behavioral system which allows teachers to teach the creative and innovative curriculum which is changing lives for thousands of kids. Most importantly, it is implemented with kindness and respect for students.
Another myth is overly rigorous test prep. DOE teachers devote a significant about of classroom time to test prep as well. However, until state testing is eliminated, it has to be done. Test prep at SA is emphasized, but not to the exclusion of an engaging curriculum (chess, art, daily science, dance, and sports, field studies, school pep rallies, yoga & dance parties, family reading nights & love from teachers ("You did it! Kiss your brain!"). My child loves school because it is fun and interesting.
Bottom line, SA IS academically rigorous, it DOES expect appropriate behavior, it DOES prepare kids for state tests, and IS doing what our current education system has failed to do.
The rumor that SA demoralizes students is a myth. Yes, SA is strict. It has a consistent behavioral system which allows teachers to teach the creative and innovative curriculum which is changing lives for thousands of kids. Most importantly, it is implemented with kindness and respect for students.
Another myth is overly rigorous test prep. DOE teachers devote a significant about of classroom time to test prep as well. However, until state testing is eliminated, it has to be done. Test prep at SA is emphasized, but not to the exclusion of an engaging curriculum (chess, art, daily science, dance, and sports, field studies, school pep rallies, yoga & dance parties, family reading nights & love from teachers ("You did it! Kiss your brain!"). My child loves school because it is fun and interesting.
Bottom line, SA IS academically rigorous, it DOES expect appropriate behavior, it DOES prepare kids for state tests, and IS doing what our current education system has failed to do.
13
Yours and every other SA parent has nothing but wonderful to say about your experiences. The only naysayers seem to be public school teachers, or staffs who were let go .
7
The reasons these SA parent say these things is because they are affluent college-educated parents, and Success Academy treats their students very differently. You rarely, if ever, find the parents posting here whose kids attend Success Academy Harlem 2, where in any given year 19% or more of the low-income students are given out of school suspensions and treated exactly as this article described. And I am talking about first and second graders getting suspended in huge numbers! But Success Academy seems to have different rules in their schools that have mostly affluent kids. Since most families are well-off and their kids will test well, Success doesn't need to suspend them frequently nor weed out the lowest performers through these kind of questionable tactics. One system for poor kids, another for middle class kids. It's a shame that the wealthiest Success Academy parents are fine with that. Because all those poor kids who get weeded out of Harlem Success Academy 4 end up in public schools being starved of their budgets, thanks to the myth that failing schools who educate those kids don't deserve the money because they can't reproduce Eva Moskowitz' results. I can understand why an affluent parent wants to send their child a school that weeds out all troublesome students, has millions in donations to subsidize their education, and that caters to their affluent students. Their kids get bathroom breaks - and they could care less that the students at HSA 4 do not.
5
This is one of the saddest articles regarding education that I have ever read. Success Academies strategies are cruel, archaic, and totally misguided. I feel very sorry for the families that have been brainwashed into thinking that the methods used by Success are actually helping their children. Charter schools are not the answer to the crisis in public education. Our country needs to admit that the true problem is basic economics. These poor kids, I will keep them in my prayers.
10
We haven't been brainwashed, but have seen what the public schools do or did for our children and have chosen SA schools because it actually teaches. We sent two of our older children to a top rated public school and had to spend the entire summer before middle school with each teaching them how to do basic mathematics. Come see a SA school and see how excited these kids are on a daily basis to come to school and learn.
After re-reading this article again and many comments posted by other erudite, astute NYT readers, my conclusion about the SA approach is that it is nothing short of ABUSE for the average kid, as well as their typically naive young teachers coming straight out of college, who are willing and able to work LONG 11-hour days because they simply do not KNOW any better.
Ridiculing children in front of their peers is nothing short of TORTURE! What this country needs are NOT hyper-competitive ROBOTS that are good only at taking standardized tests, but rather students who can somehow be motivated to learn, who learn to ENJOY learning new STUFF as a LIFETIME occupation!
As a medical researcher, I see this "robotized" approach all the TIME in MDs - you oftentimes get into Medical School because you are young and can cram inordinate amounts of information temporarily - long enough to pass your boards and various licensing exams. However, actually practicing as a DOCTOR? A different story completely! Why ELSE do you go through internships and residencies? Because standardized BOOK smarts are NOT enough to actually practice medicine - that's why it's called the ART of practicing medicine!
Standardized tests really only measure ONE thing - the bare MINIMUM of any information you need to know. That's IT! Anything else, such as reflection and developing critical thinking skills - is GRAVY - and you will typically NOT find this in the heavy-handed SA approach.
Ridiculing children in front of their peers is nothing short of TORTURE! What this country needs are NOT hyper-competitive ROBOTS that are good only at taking standardized tests, but rather students who can somehow be motivated to learn, who learn to ENJOY learning new STUFF as a LIFETIME occupation!
As a medical researcher, I see this "robotized" approach all the TIME in MDs - you oftentimes get into Medical School because you are young and can cram inordinate amounts of information temporarily - long enough to pass your boards and various licensing exams. However, actually practicing as a DOCTOR? A different story completely! Why ELSE do you go through internships and residencies? Because standardized BOOK smarts are NOT enough to actually practice medicine - that's why it's called the ART of practicing medicine!
Standardized tests really only measure ONE thing - the bare MINIMUM of any information you need to know. That's IT! Anything else, such as reflection and developing critical thinking skills - is GRAVY - and you will typically NOT find this in the heavy-handed SA approach.
7
Well there is the minimal information one can retain to pass the test, and then there are those who don't even meet that minimal bar.- majority of ny ps kids.
3
My daughter loves her SA school, and looks forward to it every day. I know for a fact that she is getting a great education, and loves learning in part because of the methods her teachers use. I'm not clear that JWR30082 has ever been to a doctor who has failed to pass a standardized test, but he'll have 70% of the NYC public school children in the future to choose from. Good luck with that.
2
Public school teachers routinely put in extra hours, even seasoned teachers. As a new teacher, I usually stay about 2 hours after the school day ends. Many evenings I put in another hour or 2. On weekends, I spend from 2-4 hours prepping, grading papers, and so on, much like the new teachers at Success Academy. It is a mistake to think that public school teachers work less hard or care less.
18
This story seems to indicate that it is only charter school teachers who work at least 11 hours per day. There are thousands of public school teachers who have done this for decades, not just briefly in their twenties.
Eva S. Moskowitz, who leads the 43 Success Schools, says "Kids, you got (sic) to get it right the first time." Students using a phrase like "you got" in their college admissions essays might not fare so well even with a Success Schools diploma.
Sylvia Jones Mill Valley, CA
Eva S. Moskowitz, who leads the 43 Success Schools, says "Kids, you got (sic) to get it right the first time." Students using a phrase like "you got" in their college admissions essays might not fare so well even with a Success Schools diploma.
Sylvia Jones Mill Valley, CA
8
Success Academy is far from perfect, however the school works for many families in our community.
Fellow public school parents, if you don't like what you see in this article, you know the drill - come up with better solutions.
Complaining (and charter hating) will not help our children reach their potential. Continue to advocate for teacher friendly, child centered schools to serve all families in our community.
Thanks to SA for raising the bar and setting high expectations for public education. Progress is underway.
Fellow public school parents, if you don't like what you see in this article, you know the drill - come up with better solutions.
Complaining (and charter hating) will not help our children reach their potential. Continue to advocate for teacher friendly, child centered schools to serve all families in our community.
Thanks to SA for raising the bar and setting high expectations for public education. Progress is underway.
8
There are scads of better solutions. The problem is not coming up with better solutions, it's getting the powers that be to stop supporting pseudo-reform policies like punitive charter chains, and spending ridiculous amounts of time and money on high-stakes tests. Instead we should support truly public schools by ensuring that they are fairly funded, we should decrease class sizes, and move away from one size fits all approaches.
4
So what are these solutions other than asking for more money for PS? We have tried it, it didn't work.
2
Yes, didn't you read my response? NYC public schools are owed money by New York State. New York State has not paid up. Also, less money on high-stakes testing, more money going directly to the classroom. There are a number of solutions, providing a meaningful curriculum, ensuring small class size, letting teachers teach, supporting public school communities, encouraging parental involvement and making learning exciting are just a few.
6
The Success Academy approach seems designed to produce technically proficient but completely obedient workers who will never challenge authority or stand up for themselves. In other words, it's a Republican dream school.
4
And the Democrat one is illiterate children who can't complete basic mathematical skills? I think that anyone would agree that students who have the skills to function in society are to dream for. Why would you want to educate children who challenge authority, but can't read a ballot?
2
It's also straight out of the corporate playbook, where any independent or creative thinking - except by those who are hired to have bright ideas for improving the bottom line - is insubordination.
Many of the commenters are focused on another commenter's statement that SA students -- all 32 of them supposedly -- failed to get into a selective high school. These commenters belittle these students because they claim there is too much test prepping. But what kind of test do you think the high school entrance exam is? EVERYONE preps for that test, though probably not most of the middle schoolers from the SA who cannot afford to. It is unfair to these students to dismiss their high performance in elementary school as the product of prepping but then look to their lack of performance (all 32 of them) as a sign of failure. My children go to the SA and are thriving. Just like most parents I know (at SA or elsewhere), there are aspects of the school I do not like. Overall, however, I am impressed with their knowledge and enthusiasm for learning. And I am pleased with the academic focus of the program. Many parts of the world do not agree with our American system of education that obsesses over "well-roundedness" and extracurricular activities that take away resources and time from educating our children. I take my children swimming, hiking, biking, skiing, etc. on my own time, which is how the rest of the world does it and I do not need my school to spend excessive amount of school time on leisure and then send my kids home with 2 hours of homework. They have little homework at night. My children do not become automatons just because we insist on giving them a robust education.
8
Union stooges are taking this line against SA students because that's all they have. My every other measure SA puts Randi Weingarten and Mike Mulgrew's union dominated schools to shame. They HAVE to tear down these kids because they are making the unions look bad.
4
Of course, as with so much else that Eva Moskowitz does, providing information to others about a student's academic standing violates federal law. But who cares, it's a charter school, and charter schools can do no wrong.
4
Why are so many commenters getting bent out of shape when we use Ms. Moscowitz's own chosen parameters to judge the success of her methods? She rides on the glory of test results.
OK--her schools have been in operation only long enough for the first eighth-grade graduating class to have taken one, optional, test whose results are meaningful to their larger future and not just to her statistics.
Every child who chose to take it--i.e. was motivated enough to choose to take it--failed it.
I welcome any reports of other standards of success that Ms. Moscowitz may care to offer. How many graduates of her program are now succeeding at any high school? What is their class ranking? If they are old enough to have taken the SATs, how have they done? If they're old enough to have begun applying to colleges, how do their grades and test results correlate to the admission standards of the schools they'd like to be accepted by?
And what is this repeated mantra from so many commenters suggesting or outright declaring that life should be full of suffering and hardship and that's the only way to achieve success? Aren't these modern times? Why do we have medieval standards for society? Why shouldn't childhood be made as happy as possible? "Happy" does not mean "without goals, direction, discipline and structure."
I myself managed to raise a happy yet highly-motivated, high-performing child who achieved success because of his own internal standards.
OK--her schools have been in operation only long enough for the first eighth-grade graduating class to have taken one, optional, test whose results are meaningful to their larger future and not just to her statistics.
Every child who chose to take it--i.e. was motivated enough to choose to take it--failed it.
I welcome any reports of other standards of success that Ms. Moscowitz may care to offer. How many graduates of her program are now succeeding at any high school? What is their class ranking? If they are old enough to have taken the SATs, how have they done? If they're old enough to have begun applying to colleges, how do their grades and test results correlate to the admission standards of the schools they'd like to be accepted by?
And what is this repeated mantra from so many commenters suggesting or outright declaring that life should be full of suffering and hardship and that's the only way to achieve success? Aren't these modern times? Why do we have medieval standards for society? Why shouldn't childhood be made as happy as possible? "Happy" does not mean "without goals, direction, discipline and structure."
I myself managed to raise a happy yet highly-motivated, high-performing child who achieved success because of his own internal standards.
4
bottom line - the vast majority SA kids read and do math at grade level or above while the vast majority of public schools do not. Everything else is just crying over spilt milk.
3
If you get rid of your low performers, you will ALWAYS have a majority of students who read and do math at grade level. Logic 101.
It would be very easy for every other CHARTER school to reproduce these results. No "union" is stopping them. But it takes a certain chutzpah to pretend you care about at-risk kids while designing a school that gets rid of half of them because they don't "fit" your system (in other words, don't get high test scores). Thankfully, other charter schools aren't doing what people like TPierre Changstien want them to do and "reproducing" Success Academy's system. The question is why? You can't blame the union, so I guess the people who run Kipp and other charter schools just aren't as smart as Eva Moskowitz. Perhaps she can take over ALL charter schools!
It would be very easy for every other CHARTER school to reproduce these results. No "union" is stopping them. But it takes a certain chutzpah to pretend you care about at-risk kids while designing a school that gets rid of half of them because they don't "fit" your system (in other words, don't get high test scores). Thankfully, other charter schools aren't doing what people like TPierre Changstien want them to do and "reproducing" Success Academy's system. The question is why? You can't blame the union, so I guess the people who run Kipp and other charter schools just aren't as smart as Eva Moskowitz. Perhaps she can take over ALL charter schools!
5
It's wonderful that you succeeded in raising a child that had internal standards; I also bet that his school system wasn't producing a fail rate of 70 percent, in terms of minimum standards. SA schools go into many of the poorest areas and give students who would be trapped in failing schools a chance. What's the problem with that?
2
It's interesting to me that, other than the emphasis on standardized test performance, the culture of the Success Academy reminds me of my Catholic Elementary School in the 1950s. We too were taught to sit still with our hands folded and eyes toward the teacher. We walked in lines from the playground to class. We received a lot of individual attention, frequent tests, etc. It wasn't too hard on us, and I have mainly good memories. Success sounds hard on the teachers, and not too practical for the entire educational system. The labor movement did fight for the 8-hour day, although among professionals we don't see much of that anymore. Good teachers work long hours, especially during their early years in the classroom. Good teachers are wonderful human beings.
4
It seems to me that this article chose to highlight some areas that would inflame the sensibilities of the fine readers of the NYT. While everyone would love to have fun, chaotic creative learning environments, this MAY only be successful when coupled with predictable, loving, structured home lives. Clearly, due to the lottery, these children are coming from loving homes, but they may not be in the most nurturing environment with structure that fosters predictability and setting of high expectations.
While many may find the tactics of SA distasteful, I was interested to read a few comments from parents who experienced the school and felt the story perhaps overemphasized the role of testing. With Common Core, testing is part of our educational culture moving forward--perhaps not to the extent that it is used at SA--but having fundamental understanding of concepts is critical in a knowledge economy. With self-service groceries and self-driving cars, we owe our children the opportunity to have a foundation for the critical thinking skills necessary in a new economy.
One last thought...SA is elevating academic achievement to the level of sports in many schools. When I read how academic success was rewarded with fun activities, it really shifts the paradigm to valuing academics whereas in most other aspects of our culture, vapid starlets, athletes and performers get all the glory. I would love to see more public displays of academic adulation.
While many may find the tactics of SA distasteful, I was interested to read a few comments from parents who experienced the school and felt the story perhaps overemphasized the role of testing. With Common Core, testing is part of our educational culture moving forward--perhaps not to the extent that it is used at SA--but having fundamental understanding of concepts is critical in a knowledge economy. With self-service groceries and self-driving cars, we owe our children the opportunity to have a foundation for the critical thinking skills necessary in a new economy.
One last thought...SA is elevating academic achievement to the level of sports in many schools. When I read how academic success was rewarded with fun activities, it really shifts the paradigm to valuing academics whereas in most other aspects of our culture, vapid starlets, athletes and performers get all the glory. I would love to see more public displays of academic adulation.
6
Is Success Academy strict? Is Success Academy demanding? Yes it is but why should it not be. I have two young boys who attend SA in Cobble Hill and I take a bus and train each morning to arrive at school by 745 each morning. I am a parent and have many schools which I can walk to in less than 5 minutes from where I live. Yet, I choose to take my boys on a 40 minute commute to school for a quality education that should be readily accessible to all. I can not comment on others experiences but I must say my oldest has been in the school going on 3 years now and my other son is in kindergarten and for me; the only assurance I need, is to see their enjoyment and enormous progress they have made in reading, writing, math and especially verbal communication and interaction. I am a NYC Public School graduate (all in Brooklyn) and a CUNY (Baruch) graduate, so I am well versed in the "system" and harbor no ill will. I chose a different path for my children and I do not regret it one bit. Charter Schools are Public Schools and I applied last minute for entry into Success Academy and am 100% glad that I was one of the lucky one's chosen. Unfortunately, a quality education should not come down to luck and should be offered to all. There is more to SA than test prepping skills and "strict" rules, as my boys learn to participate in different sports (Mr Love), science (Ms Easton), chess (Mr Izraylit) and art (Mrs Traci), in addition to dedicated reading and math sessions.
12
Cobble Hill is not Harlem. Please let us know if your Cobble Hill school is as well-stocked with changes of clothing for children who wet themselves as is SA Harlem. Please let us know how many children in your children's school have had their test papers ripped up in front of the class.
And please tell me--if the only SA available to you was the one in Harlem, would you enroll your children there?
And please tell me--if the only SA available to you was the one in Harlem, would you enroll your children there?
3
When Eva Moskowitz insisted she had to open her newest school in very wealthy Cobble Hill instead of in the far less affluent District 13, she said she MUST give the residents of District 15 (the majority of whom are affluent) priority in her school because they were just clamoring for a new charter school. It was poppycock. The proof is people like Steven M. Young -- college educated -- perhaps even out of district because somehow college-educated parents from out of district seem to get in -- who compose the majority of parents there. Are there wait lists at all for that school? Why were there empty seats? And yet, Eva Moskowitz insisted she needed to open a second school in this district where most students are well-off, instead of a second school in District 7 in the Bronx, where there seems to be an entirely different type of school for low-income students.
People think that Success Academy is working miracles -- but apparently Eva Moskowitz herself doesn't believe her own hype. If she did, she would be opening schools where her wait lists are longest -- in low-income communities -- instead of opening schools where the students who get priority in her lottery are wealthiest. It's ironic that so many posters here believe that Success Academy is for at-risk students when those are exactly the students she dropped lottery priority for! Why?
People think that Success Academy is working miracles -- but apparently Eva Moskowitz herself doesn't believe her own hype. If she did, she would be opening schools where her wait lists are longest -- in low-income communities -- instead of opening schools where the students who get priority in her lottery are wealthiest. It's ironic that so many posters here believe that Success Academy is for at-risk students when those are exactly the students she dropped lottery priority for! Why?
2
As I tell every Parent and Teacher that I meet who criticizes these State mandated standardized tests, when they stop using standardized tests such as the SAT/ACT as a gateway to college here in the United States only then will I gladly join them in criticizing the work of reformers like Ms. Moskowitz. In the meantime I will not support any effort to promote the subtle or benign bigotry of low expectations for my african-american daughter that has attended a charter school since kindergarten. Especially when it comes from white middle class college educated parents living the american dream.
5
Standardized tests are not bad in and of themselves; an over emphasis on high-stakes standardized tests is another story entirely.
3
Does it bother you that Eva Moskowitz has dropped priority for students zoned for failing public schools (who are primarily low-income students) and replaced it with lottery priority for students who live in the district - and then proceeded to open lots of schools in affluent districts? Does it bother you that the at-risk students who most need her very well-funded school will remain forever on long wait lists because she keeps opening her newest schools in other districts where the affluent parents are? Does it bother you that low-income students in her schools are suspended and "counseled out" at a rate of 15 or 20%! And we are talking 5, 6 and 7 year olds! But the suspension and attrition rates at the schools that cater to middle class and affluent parents are a fraction of that. Success Academy will educate any EASY student -- rich or poor. But isn't it funny how many more of those easy students seem to reside in wealthy neighborhoods.
4
Success Academy students do well on state tests, but do poorly on other tests (not a single Success Academy 8th grader passed the specialized high school exam). This tells us that Success Academy is very good at training and prepping for the state test, but does not instill knowledge or skills that are translateable to other tests ( let alone life in general). Is this what we want of our schools?
4
Again with the red herring that SA students haven't yet made it into a specialized NYC high school. In the context of a public system that produces kids who barely read at grade-level, SA's record of 90% grade-proficiency is what we should be focusing on. SA kids will make it into the elite NYC high schools and when they do, their detractors shift to complaining that these kids have an unfair advantage over traditional public school students.
3
Have you standardized your results? Probably not. SA schools are in areas of the City that are completely underserved in terms of the specialized high schools; I'm not sure how much you can read into the fact that students here also didn't get in.
I think we need to appreciate a difference between students who are going onto the top schools in the City and ones who will have a chance to succeed. Not everyone who gets a good education will make it into Brooklyn Tech or Yale University. However, no one who consistently fails to meet standards will have any chance at a selective high school, or competitive college. Opponents of SA need to stop emphasizing that not all its graduates got into an Ivy League school as proof that its methods are not working. What we need to emphasize is that public schools that fail 70% of the children of this City should not be able to monopolize education, thus effectively disenfranchising vast populations that are far too often minorities.
I think we need to appreciate a difference between students who are going onto the top schools in the City and ones who will have a chance to succeed. Not everyone who gets a good education will make it into Brooklyn Tech or Yale University. However, no one who consistently fails to meet standards will have any chance at a selective high school, or competitive college. Opponents of SA need to stop emphasizing that not all its graduates got into an Ivy League school as proof that its methods are not working. What we need to emphasize is that public schools that fail 70% of the children of this City should not be able to monopolize education, thus effectively disenfranchising vast populations that are far too often minorities.
2
If it can be shown that these schools are in fact selective in their admission and suspension policies, effectively excluding more severe special education students, how is that not in violation of the People With Disabilities Act (IDEA 1974) ... particularly as they continue to receive public funding?
3
We can never know for sure because Eva Moskowitz has successfully sued to keep SA information private. How can her schools receive any money from the public yet have no accountability to the public? Amazing.
3
It's not a violation of IDEA (which for your information was passed 15 years before Americans with Disabilities Act) because it doesn't happen. There is not one case of a student that had disabilities being rejected by a SA school, and many of the SA schools have equivalent proportions of special needs children as other public schools. Facts are more important than opinion.
1
Pretty obvious that there are two basic differences between Success and NYC public schools. One is parents who are highly involved and want to see their kids succeed. The second is discipline. Success has both, and by and large the public schools have neither. It is impossible to learn in chaos, and teachers who know they have students whose parents will back them up are way ahead of the game.
6
Dear NYT.
It would have been so much more useful if the Times had taken a more evidence and fact-driven approach to this piece. How are public schools funded? What are the parameters within which schools can operate? What are the undisputed goals of education (e.g. reading and math literacy, critical thinking)? What are the controversial goal of education (test taking skills, a calm and peaceful learning environment)? What are the accepted and controversial ways to measure educational outcomes? How broad are the pedagogues practiced in public schools? THEN put Success Academy into that well-defined context.
The thousands of comments generated could have provided a sense what parts of the public education promise people agree or disagree with as well as how Success Academy fills or fails to fill that promise via their pedagogy.
Public education is a bona fide social science research subject: it is a complex, legalistic, quantitative and nuanced.
The Upshot is publishing a series of excellent articles on evidence-based health care so you guys know how to tackle these topics.
Does that make sense? HUGE missed opportunity!
It would have been so much more useful if the Times had taken a more evidence and fact-driven approach to this piece. How are public schools funded? What are the parameters within which schools can operate? What are the undisputed goals of education (e.g. reading and math literacy, critical thinking)? What are the controversial goal of education (test taking skills, a calm and peaceful learning environment)? What are the accepted and controversial ways to measure educational outcomes? How broad are the pedagogues practiced in public schools? THEN put Success Academy into that well-defined context.
The thousands of comments generated could have provided a sense what parts of the public education promise people agree or disagree with as well as how Success Academy fills or fails to fill that promise via their pedagogy.
Public education is a bona fide social science research subject: it is a complex, legalistic, quantitative and nuanced.
The Upshot is publishing a series of excellent articles on evidence-based health care so you guys know how to tackle these topics.
Does that make sense? HUGE missed opportunity!
7
I agree. I hope parents like you pressure Success Academy to open their books and policies to real researchers. If you learn that in their schools that are primarily low-income, they regularly suspend and counsel out large numbers of students and use harsh tactics like the ones described here, will it bother you? Or are you satisfied knowing that your child is in a Success Academy school that is thrilled to accommodate the children of college-educated parents who they know will perform well on state tests? Do you hold your school to a measure of honesty and make it clear that the school is NOT for most of the students in failing public schools and does not want to be for them? Or do you keep promoting the myth that the only reason those schools are terrible is union teachers and too MUCH money spent on them? Because it astonishes me that Success Academy parents don't demand some honesty from their administrators so that their results aren't used to cut money from the schools who educate the MAJORITY of at-risk students who are not wanted in Success Academy schools. Simply saying "Success Academy is not for all students" does not get to the heart of the matter if the test results at their schools (after weeding out low-performers) are used to justify budget cuts in education. If Success Academy parents would speak out against Eva Moskowitz' misleading statements, you could do some good for ALL students. How about it?
2
I haven't read all of the comments of course, and others might have already pointed this out, but there is a clear agenda from the Wall Street backers: privatize education and make it just another opportunity for financial gain. There are already millions of private, profit-seeking dollars invested in the charter school industry (a/k/a "reform"), and a recent conference for investors on bonds and education made this crystal clear.
5
I guess by that logic that anyone who donates to museums or other not-for-profit institutions is also doing just the same thing. Would that include the Clinton Foundation?
I think if I knew a parent was regularly stressing their middle school children into peeing their pants, I would call social services. Aside from the issue of teaching to the tests, I think there needs to be regulatory intervention for this abusive practice. The administration knows they are causing kids to pee on themselves frequently enough to stock extra underpants, yet they make no changes?!?
5
The key word here is regularly. This article and Ms. Moskowitz's detractors have taken the handful of times this has occurred and spun it as if this is a regular occurrence.
2
My child is a scholar at Success Academy. This was his first yr there coming from a PS for kindergarten. In this one yr his reading level went from a C to an I. Not only is that huge but his interest in reading as we'll he gets excited to try to read higher level books so he can move up. I love the constant communication between his teacher and I via text,email or calls I'm always up to date on what is going on. Unlike his kindergarten teacher who would take more than 2 days to respond. Reading this article I can't believe what is being said. My child is not treated like a soldier and all the teachers seem nice and look happy doing their jobs. My son talks about your patella and femur etc..parts of the body that my nephew in 5th grade didnt know or never heard the terminology in school before. I do to understand y there's soo negative no one likes to see others succeed and it's a shame. PS and charters should work together. I'm not bothered by Saturday school for test practice, my friends son who is in 4th grade in a PS in queens tells me her son goes to school every Saturday for half a day to prepare for test, so why is it taboo for Success to do so??
10
I am personally appalled by the teaching methods and how students and teachers are treated at Success Academy. I doubt many affluent parents would want that type of education for their children, so why is Success Academy considered an appropriate alternative for less privileged kids?
How about boosting funding for the public schools so non-charter schools can have the same resources available as charter schools that benefit from private donations?
Also, Isn't it interesting how wealthier school districts don't seem "to need" charter schools like Success Academy? Very telling.
How about boosting funding for the public schools so non-charter schools can have the same resources available as charter schools that benefit from private donations?
Also, Isn't it interesting how wealthier school districts don't seem "to need" charter schools like Success Academy? Very telling.
9
OK - so because you "doubt" it then no one else can avail themselves of it.
Boost funding for public schools? Please... NYC already spends upwards of 20K per student. Funding isn't the issue.
Boost funding for public schools? Please... NYC already spends upwards of 20K per student. Funding isn't the issue.
2
Actually, funding is the heart of the issue. Educational opportunity is not equal in this country. How is that not obvious?
Our daughter goes to the SA school in Cobble Hill, which is a relatively affluent neighborhood in Brooklyn. Her older sisters attended the highly rated public school in the area, but we were appalled at how bad their education was at it (this was before SA opened in the area). We are ecstatic that SA opened in our neighborhood. Now we won't have to spend the entire summer before middle school teaching our youngest how to multiply.
2
Wouldn't it be wonderful if public schools had the resources that Eva Moskowitz has at her disposal; if principals made the kind of salaries that she gets paid for "her successes" How easy it would be to have success if you could eliminate any child who didn't succeed or didn't have the scores to remain in your school or the discipline to fit into said regimen? Luckily she won't have to foot the bill for the shrinks many of these kids will need for public shaming.
It's easy to get a success rate higher than public schools since public schools are just that, public, and are thus, not allowed to get rid of students who are problematic. This article suggests that she practices hazing, something which I thought went out in the 1950's, bordering on corporal punishment.
Teachers in her success academy also do not have the right of representation from a union; another issue which suggests that Madame Moskowitz is running the ship as a dictator, everyone will cow tow to her, if not, you are gone. High teacher turnover suggests a low morale which seems never to be discussed. Young teachers never want to make waves because they need the job and will usually do whatever they believe they have to in order to keep the status quo. She is running this like a business forgetting that young lives and learning styles should be the major consideration. School isn't a boot camp and learning should be fun and exciting, not merely a place where kids respond like Pavlov's dogs to rewards.
It's easy to get a success rate higher than public schools since public schools are just that, public, and are thus, not allowed to get rid of students who are problematic. This article suggests that she practices hazing, something which I thought went out in the 1950's, bordering on corporal punishment.
Teachers in her success academy also do not have the right of representation from a union; another issue which suggests that Madame Moskowitz is running the ship as a dictator, everyone will cow tow to her, if not, you are gone. High teacher turnover suggests a low morale which seems never to be discussed. Young teachers never want to make waves because they need the job and will usually do whatever they believe they have to in order to keep the status quo. She is running this like a business forgetting that young lives and learning styles should be the major consideration. School isn't a boot camp and learning should be fun and exciting, not merely a place where kids respond like Pavlov's dogs to rewards.
16
Public schools spend close to 20K a year per student. They have plenty of resources at their disposal. The question is how the board of ed and the teachers' unions choose to deploy them.
3
So are you implying that Success Academy is achieving much better results with less spending?
Doubtful. Public schools have to pay for resources that are not funded by corporations, unlike Eva's "Success" academies. How much money is going to each child in her schools? She also does not have to pay rent for the schools she inhabits unlike Public schools.
You are lumping two different purses together.
Teacher unions do not pay for student education. Teacher's fund the teacher unions which in turn support teachers from the demoralization and excessive slave labor that seems to be occurring in Eva's schools. Once she spits out her young teachers, where do they turn for new teaching jobs?
You are lumping two different purses together.
Teacher unions do not pay for student education. Teacher's fund the teacher unions which in turn support teachers from the demoralization and excessive slave labor that seems to be occurring in Eva's schools. Once she spits out her young teachers, where do they turn for new teaching jobs?
1
I looked at the photos and wondered if girls attend this school. No pictures of girls or they are greyed out.
3
does recess count?
It's interesting that many of the comments blast the school's approach for teaching to the system - the standardized test - rather than blasting the standardized test system itself. Rather than malign a school that is doing the best it can for a school, why not fight and change the standardized testing phenomenon that we've allowed to infest public education?
8
People are working toward changing the focus on standardized tests. Parents are refusing to have their children take these exams, which are not appropriate for students.
1
Children are very resilient. They are more likely to survive a strict environment that educates them than an undisciplined one that doesn't. In the long run the first will benefit them. We know how far the'll get with the second one.
6
Children may be resilient, but they aren't immune to the effects of abusive treatment. Public shaming is a repellent educational technique. I agree that New York's public schools are a disaster, but just as a zoo isn't an appropriate model for an elementary school, neither is a concentration camp.
2
A few questions and points:
1. I used to work at Success Academy's headquarters. Some of the tactics used were frankly unethical. Students with discipline problems were suspended from Brooklyn schools to Bronx suspension sites, and vice versa. When I asked why, the response was chilling: so that the parents get sick of bringing them so far and pull them from the school. I was asked to draft a 'contract' for a second grader about 'not hitting' that would be 'enforceable' - as a former teacher myself and current attorney, I explained that contracts cannot really be held enforceable against a seven year old. The powers at be indicated that they only wanted the contract in order to substantiate the child's inevitable expulsion.
2. Students are typically required to have silent breakfast and silent lunch. It is really an eerie sight to watch hundreds of young students eating without talking, laughing or engaging with one another in any way.
3. I sat in an assembly where students were taught how to laugh appropriately. The laughter should have two hearty 'chuckles' followed by a return to silence and clasped hands. Very bizarre and reminiscent of a North Korea-style regime.
4. I would really like to know whether the same disciplinary systems are in place for students at the Upper West Side locations as are in place for students in Harlem, the Bronx, etc. What is the punishment for unclasped hands or a fidgety leg? Do UWS parents have comments on this?
1. I used to work at Success Academy's headquarters. Some of the tactics used were frankly unethical. Students with discipline problems were suspended from Brooklyn schools to Bronx suspension sites, and vice versa. When I asked why, the response was chilling: so that the parents get sick of bringing them so far and pull them from the school. I was asked to draft a 'contract' for a second grader about 'not hitting' that would be 'enforceable' - as a former teacher myself and current attorney, I explained that contracts cannot really be held enforceable against a seven year old. The powers at be indicated that they only wanted the contract in order to substantiate the child's inevitable expulsion.
2. Students are typically required to have silent breakfast and silent lunch. It is really an eerie sight to watch hundreds of young students eating without talking, laughing or engaging with one another in any way.
3. I sat in an assembly where students were taught how to laugh appropriately. The laughter should have two hearty 'chuckles' followed by a return to silence and clasped hands. Very bizarre and reminiscent of a North Korea-style regime.
4. I would really like to know whether the same disciplinary systems are in place for students at the Upper West Side locations as are in place for students in Harlem, the Bronx, etc. What is the punishment for unclasped hands or a fidgety leg? Do UWS parents have comments on this?
18
Of course, I don't have first-hand knowledge about Success Academy -only what I read in the article and in scanning the comments - but some things about the classroom and its teaching methods sounded very cult-like and similar to forced re-education camps used for dissidents of a totalitarian regime.
Is such a high pressure environment worth it for the students and teachers? Is publicizing a student's low test scores - public shaming - a proper and effective motivating tool to get him or her to improve?
Is such a high pressure environment worth it for the students and teachers? Is publicizing a student's low test scores - public shaming - a proper and effective motivating tool to get him or her to improve?
4
Why doesn't Andrew Cuomo weigh in on the abuse issues, including public shaming and sitting in one's own urine during the test? We need a response from Cuomo. What is the status on the audit that Success Academy has been ducking for years? Why does the Academy grade the tests, while public schools do not grade their own tests?
Why do we always hear about Success Academy (an audit would reveal the amounts spent on public relations) and not from the Geoffrey Canada schools or the KIPP schools? There is an Explore Charter School in Brooklyn. Why don't we hear from them about the abuse issues at Success?
I am very interested in the Commenter who worked at headquarters who explained that there were many unethical activities going on. Can we get a report on how many students were counciled out?
Why do we always hear about Success Academy (an audit would reveal the amounts spent on public relations) and not from the Geoffrey Canada schools or the KIPP schools? There is an Explore Charter School in Brooklyn. Why don't we hear from them about the abuse issues at Success?
I am very interested in the Commenter who worked at headquarters who explained that there were many unethical activities going on. Can we get a report on how many students were counciled out?
3
How horrible! Those poor children.
1
I would like to see the founder of these schools and her hedge fund investors forced to sit in their offices, hands clasped, feet on the floor, backs ramrod-straight, and to be publicly shamed if their schools and/or hedge funds failed to perform as expected. No, not going to happen, because, after all, that kind of shaming behavior is for the 99%, not Ms. Moskovitz and her 1% cronies.
10
I would like to see all the commentators send their children to schools where only 4 percent are reading or completing mathematics at grade level. Any takers?
2
Success Academy sounds a lot like the suburban school I went to in the 60s. There was discipline and tests scores were displayed for all to see. There was a dress code that was enforced. We were expected to do our homework and school work on time and neatly. I didn't suffer too much from this in fact I learned a lot including good academic work habits which have helped me in my life.
7
Shaming is not a teaching strategy.
7
Obviously, having only 4 percent of your students at grade level doesn't sound like a great one either.
1
Here's the real reveal: Eva Moskowitz sends her own children to one of her Harlem schools. How many NYC public school teachers & principals & superintendents can say the same?
14
SA Parent: Have the Moscowitz kids peed in their pants? Have they had their papers ripped up in front of the whole class? Or are they too smart--and too connected--to have that happen to them? Are they so enriched from birth that Ms. Moscowitz knows they are in no personal danger from her methods?
.
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4
SCA - lots worse than a kid wetting himself happens in public schools. You're focusing on that because it's a headline grabber. The real headline should be "Eva Moskowitz's Success Academy Schools Produce 90% Proficiency in Reading and Math."
4
My six children, who attended public school in a poor neighborhood, would have been kicked out of Success Academy because they never could have fit into those confined little roles, nor done well in that stifling environment, which seems to relish turning children into test-taking automatons. I feel for the children who are students at SA. Whatever will they do when they are faced with college classes that demand they think -- or write or do anything else -- independently, and not just regurgitate what they've been force-fed? I see that no SA students have gotten accepted to any of NYC's specialized schools. That's not critical, but it is telling and may be a harbinger of things to come when they try to get into colleges.
5
OK then it's a good thing your kids didn't go to this school. Please don't be so condescending to parents who come to a different conclusion than you. Your attitude is basically that because this isn't an appropriate set-up for you and your 6 kids, no one else should have this choice.
5
It's interesting that most of the commenters (as well as the media and politicians) immediately blame teachers, principals and even children for problems with public school systems in the US. If corporations fail do you also blame the people lowest on the totem pole? If a government fails, do you blame the civil servants? I agree that the NYC public school system is imperfect, as are public school systems throughout the U.S. , but I believe that teachers and principals get into the profession to do good. We certainly don't do it for the money. I believe that the corporations and politicians standing in lock step behind charter schools, and charter school magnates like Moscowitz, have greedier intentions. I'm sick and tired of people beleaguring educators while eating up whatever toxic PR is served up by the charter school machine.
7
No, not the principals, teachers at all. The faults lie squarely with the union,who put themselves ahead of kids.
2
Why do so many of my literate co-readers struggle with the difference between "discipline" and "punishment?"
Many children require firm structure and realistic consequences for misbehavior or lack of effort. No child benefits from punishment.
I'd further like to remind many co-readers remarking on the stringency of their Catholic school educations decades ago that they likely had plenty of after-school opportunities to burn off steam, to play unsupervised, at least some of them in good/safe neighborhoods.
And lastly--from the comments I've read by self-identified SA parents: all/most of them have children at SA schools that are not the profiled school. Many of them seem to be white parents whose SA schools are located in middle-class neigborhoods, and I'd like just one of those parents to tell me that her/his own child wet himself/herself because of the rigors of the classroom routine, and that was OK.
Americans need to stop seeing everything in black and white. Either draconian schools, or anarchy? Nothing in between?
It is a good thing that every child in NY is guaranteed a public education. It is a bad thing that the public schools do not have sufficient mechanisms, funding and other resources to ensure that disruptive students are prevented from ruining the education of others.
Despite the insinuations of some commenters, I myself am no fan of public school teachers. I've seen many dreadful ones. That's not relevant to this story.
Many children require firm structure and realistic consequences for misbehavior or lack of effort. No child benefits from punishment.
I'd further like to remind many co-readers remarking on the stringency of their Catholic school educations decades ago that they likely had plenty of after-school opportunities to burn off steam, to play unsupervised, at least some of them in good/safe neighborhoods.
And lastly--from the comments I've read by self-identified SA parents: all/most of them have children at SA schools that are not the profiled school. Many of them seem to be white parents whose SA schools are located in middle-class neigborhoods, and I'd like just one of those parents to tell me that her/his own child wet himself/herself because of the rigors of the classroom routine, and that was OK.
Americans need to stop seeing everything in black and white. Either draconian schools, or anarchy? Nothing in between?
It is a good thing that every child in NY is guaranteed a public education. It is a bad thing that the public schools do not have sufficient mechanisms, funding and other resources to ensure that disruptive students are prevented from ruining the education of others.
Despite the insinuations of some commenters, I myself am no fan of public school teachers. I've seen many dreadful ones. That's not relevant to this story.
6
I'd like to know about the founder's own educational experiences. Did she study under similar conditions?
1
Good for her. She is achieving in a when all the feel good, sweetness approach has failed. IF teachers are too stressed they can follow the lady in the article and go to Yale Law School. Or they can transfer to a school in a neighborhood where an executive from Goldman sits on the PTA. Significant achievement is hard work and stressful. It isn't handed to us. Iron workers on a tall building are under stress, doctors in a trauma center are under stress, soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan are under stress. We need new ideas. New excited teachers to be involved in achievement. Old Ideas and just pouring
money into a program doesn't work. Some of the systems with the highest expenditure per student are still at the bottom of the list in success. So lets try something new and if it works, expand it.
money into a program doesn't work. Some of the systems with the highest expenditure per student are still at the bottom of the list in success. So lets try something new and if it works, expand it.
5
What stands out to me the most about the "success" of charter schools is all the confounding variables when comparing them to public schools. Most obvious are the students that attend. Charter schools are not serving the children with disabilities that require extra time more creative approaches to teaching, often with lower testing results at the end of the year. Second, the parents of the children attending charter schools are parents that are invested- they are more likely to be the parents reading every night to their children, reminding them to complete their homework, and exemplify the value of education. Finally, the fact that these children are in school for so many hours will of course mean they will have higher scores on tests at the end of the year.
I'd like to see a longitudinal study following these students, and not just the ones that made it through with few scrapes and bruises. What happened to those who were always doing poorly, on the cusp of being expelled?
I think that charter schools can be a good learning environment for a few students, but I think they are simply too expensive, and use up far too much funding that other public schools desperately need. Are the benefits worth the cost?
I'd like to see a longitudinal study following these students, and not just the ones that made it through with few scrapes and bruises. What happened to those who were always doing poorly, on the cusp of being expelled?
I think that charter schools can be a good learning environment for a few students, but I think they are simply too expensive, and use up far too much funding that other public schools desperately need. Are the benefits worth the cost?
4
So they get "$72 million in public funds and $22 million in donations." That alone means they get 30% more money per student than regular public schools, because hedge fund managers and other libertarian ideologues are willing to pony up the extra cash to "prove" that charter schools are better. Secondly, they pay zero in rent, so there expenses are better. In other words, these "free market" based schools are HEAVILY subsidized by both the City and Wall Street.
Third, they kick out 4X as many students per year as regular public schools.
I wonder why it is they succeed where other schools fail?
Third, they kick out 4X as many students per year as regular public schools.
I wonder why it is they succeed where other schools fail?
18
One other comment. Although I was a former elementary school teacher in NYC, I now teach in a city university in NYC. Its very diverse group, but mostly first-generation college students that went through public school. They are at the forefront of the NCLB group. I have to say that while they are apparently academically ready for college that are not, shall I say, socially ready (I'm talking about upper class students, not freshman).
Most of the students think college is "memorize" and "test" (and, I say, forget, because a few weeks later that don't remember the material or integrate it with other material). Most students reject and resent class discussions; they have told me all they want are power point notes they they can memorize. This is not all students, but I'd say at least half.
It is unfortunate that there is not much "love of learning", even though I teach students in the chosen major area. I believe that this has developed from the "teach to the test" mentality that seems to continue in college.
Most of the students think college is "memorize" and "test" (and, I say, forget, because a few weeks later that don't remember the material or integrate it with other material). Most students reject and resent class discussions; they have told me all they want are power point notes they they can memorize. This is not all students, but I'd say at least half.
It is unfortunate that there is not much "love of learning", even though I teach students in the chosen major area. I believe that this has developed from the "teach to the test" mentality that seems to continue in college.
10
I said this yesterday, and I will say it again. I am a former elementary school teacher (grades 3 & 4) in a low income public school in Bedford-Stuyvesant (at the time, all African and Caribbean American children). I studied education in college and was committed to teaching there.
I can't speak to Ms. Moscowitz, but I got very good results with my students. Some contacted me years later! We did some drills (not much) because I was part of a group of young teachers who really cared about the kids, and used creative methods. I had some 4th grade kids doing 8th grade math because I saw their potential and taught to it. Lessons were based on kid's interests, current events and interesting topics. We did science projects we invented, put on plays that featured other cultures, taught classes based on guitar songs the class wrote, etc. I admit that none of my students went to Harvard, and a few disruptive kids did poorly, but on the whole, the kids liked school and responded quite well. That's what I wanted. I didn't need a Ms. Moscowitz or a 26 year old principal to "guide" me. And that was true of most of the committed teachers in my school district.
It is such a (self-serving to opponents) myth that public school doesn't expect a lot of students. Or that all teachers care about are unions and paychecks. Sorry, I did lots of weekend work for kids, and tho I was a union member, I (and most teachers) ignored them.
I can't speak to Ms. Moscowitz, but I got very good results with my students. Some contacted me years later! We did some drills (not much) because I was part of a group of young teachers who really cared about the kids, and used creative methods. I had some 4th grade kids doing 8th grade math because I saw their potential and taught to it. Lessons were based on kid's interests, current events and interesting topics. We did science projects we invented, put on plays that featured other cultures, taught classes based on guitar songs the class wrote, etc. I admit that none of my students went to Harvard, and a few disruptive kids did poorly, but on the whole, the kids liked school and responded quite well. That's what I wanted. I didn't need a Ms. Moscowitz or a 26 year old principal to "guide" me. And that was true of most of the committed teachers in my school district.
It is such a (self-serving to opponents) myth that public school doesn't expect a lot of students. Or that all teachers care about are unions and paychecks. Sorry, I did lots of weekend work for kids, and tho I was a union member, I (and most teachers) ignored them.
12
The test numbers speak for themselves, what isn't clear and won't be clear for some time is whether this type of high stakes education actually works. Personally, I don't think standardised tests evaluate anything other than being able to take a test and with 90 days of test prep, SA is most definitely teaching to a test.
It is also hard to compare a school that receives "free" school space, the same funding as public schools, along with 25+% of its budget coming from private funding with the larger public school system.
When I was in kindergarten and grade 1, all school supplies were provided by the school and there were tons of extracurriculars provided. This policy changed starting in Grade 2. That said I had fantastic teachers that had the resources and time to address the variety of needs of the students in my class.
While it is no doubt possible to propel students with dedicated parents ahead of the learning curve, a fundamental part of learning has always been learning to work with distractions, disruptions and difficult people. Life is not linear and able to fit into a spelling or math quiz. Discussing complex social problems, valuing art, music and foreign languages and leadership skills all contribute to making better students and better future adults. While they may not all pass standardised tests, they will be far better prepared for living life outside of school.
It is also hard to compare a school that receives "free" school space, the same funding as public schools, along with 25+% of its budget coming from private funding with the larger public school system.
When I was in kindergarten and grade 1, all school supplies were provided by the school and there were tons of extracurriculars provided. This policy changed starting in Grade 2. That said I had fantastic teachers that had the resources and time to address the variety of needs of the students in my class.
While it is no doubt possible to propel students with dedicated parents ahead of the learning curve, a fundamental part of learning has always been learning to work with distractions, disruptions and difficult people. Life is not linear and able to fit into a spelling or math quiz. Discussing complex social problems, valuing art, music and foreign languages and leadership skills all contribute to making better students and better future adults. While they may not all pass standardised tests, they will be far better prepared for living life outside of school.
7
I doubt that someone graduating from a school where only 4 percent meet the minimum standards has a better chance at life preparation than someone who graduates from a school with a 96 percent success rate. If you feel confident in that approach, I suggest you start going to doctors that failed their medical boards.
2
It sounds a good deal like Teach for America, another program where the pursuit of results seem to trump the need for everyday humanity toward both teachers and students. That's not to say that there aren't good aspects in these programs; yet evidence of ideological extremes reveals that peer pressure is the operative, not respect for one another, or for learning.
8
wow kids wet their pants and no one calls Child services on them=if this happened in a regular school you would get fired but at "success" school its like will get out the huggies
this is not school this is like oliver twist
this is not school this is like oliver twist
12
We need to fix our failing public school system, and we can do so by stopping to demonize charter schools and starting to learn from them - from both their successes and shortcomings. This discussion, once again, has turned deeply political, which is an emotional drain on everyone.
No system will be a perfect fit for every child. I am a parent of a Success Academy student and I am extremely grateful that the school exists. My child goes to school with a smile every day, looking forward to the rich curriculum and seeing her friends and beloved teachers. Discipline and order give her a chance to learn in spite of a large student to teacher ratio. If you are painting in your mind a disturbing picture of a racially segregated police state, please note that our school is extremely diverse, just like any public school would be; a normal, safe and sane place for kids of all walks of life.
Are there better ways and practices to achieve the same results? Sure, but an imperfect metric is better than none. Can discipline, taken to an extreme, be harmful? Obviously, yes, but I am yet to see any example of it in our current school.
No system will be a perfect fit for every child. I am a parent of a Success Academy student and I am extremely grateful that the school exists. My child goes to school with a smile every day, looking forward to the rich curriculum and seeing her friends and beloved teachers. Discipline and order give her a chance to learn in spite of a large student to teacher ratio. If you are painting in your mind a disturbing picture of a racially segregated police state, please note that our school is extremely diverse, just like any public school would be; a normal, safe and sane place for kids of all walks of life.
Are there better ways and practices to achieve the same results? Sure, but an imperfect metric is better than none. Can discipline, taken to an extreme, be harmful? Obviously, yes, but I am yet to see any example of it in our current school.
9
What can be learned from charter schools? They can do things public schools cannot.
1
if this school can't do better than run boot-camp style, with much more money and far fewer restrictions than public schools have, then they are failing. At public expense.
1
One thing we can learn from charters is to require parents "apply" to public schools.
Then children growing up with parents who are drug addicted, neglectful or incarcerated, and, as a result arrive at school seriously impaired, will NOT be in public schools as well. Parents who cannot manage their truant students, maybe they won't enroll either.
Then children growing up with parents who are drug addicted, neglectful or incarcerated, and, as a result arrive at school seriously impaired, will NOT be in public schools as well. Parents who cannot manage their truant students, maybe they won't enroll either.
1
Saying it's not perfect is the understatement of the year.
A 26 year old principal should tell you all you need to know. Ditto the high teacher turnover rates. One of the benefits of a public school is having those ten plus year teachers who are familiar with the community and with the grade level they work with. With practice comes wisdom and real experience. The best teachers I had were those who had been teaching for years. You're not getting any of that at most charter schools.
How many of you would trust sending your child to a hospital where 98% of the staff are not even a year or two out of med school?
And there's nothing admirable about having kids pee themselves or having their scores placed on boards for everyone to watch. It's shameful. There are plenty of ways to motivate students without resorting to dehumanizing tactics like these. Should jobs start doing this to their employees? How far would that go?
We need to start looking at Finland's model of education, and learning why it is the success it is, instead of still trying to emulate Japan (which has never made any sense). You can pour all the money you want into charter schools and dress them up as nicely as you want to, but it's not going to change the fact that learning simply to pass tests doesn't work and it never has.
A 26 year old principal should tell you all you need to know. Ditto the high teacher turnover rates. One of the benefits of a public school is having those ten plus year teachers who are familiar with the community and with the grade level they work with. With practice comes wisdom and real experience. The best teachers I had were those who had been teaching for years. You're not getting any of that at most charter schools.
How many of you would trust sending your child to a hospital where 98% of the staff are not even a year or two out of med school?
And there's nothing admirable about having kids pee themselves or having their scores placed on boards for everyone to watch. It's shameful. There are plenty of ways to motivate students without resorting to dehumanizing tactics like these. Should jobs start doing this to their employees? How far would that go?
We need to start looking at Finland's model of education, and learning why it is the success it is, instead of still trying to emulate Japan (which has never made any sense). You can pour all the money you want into charter schools and dress them up as nicely as you want to, but it's not going to change the fact that learning simply to pass tests doesn't work and it never has.
13
So many districts nation-wide are opting out of the tests. In a couple of years, the tests will be eliminated. What will Eva use to justify her "achievements?" I would really love to see model students at Success read aloud, dissect a text using critical thinking skills, play a musical instrument, play a sport. I have never seen a student from this school. I visit a lot of public schools and I see wonderful, thoughtful work on the bulletin boards, 3's and 4's on state tests, as well. How do the children do all this without peeing in their pants.
Is it possible for the charter to be brought up on abuse charges?
Is it possible for the charter to be brought up on abuse charges?
4
South Korea is just as academically successful as Finland and even more extreme in their approach than Japan.
Finland and South Korea have radically different but equally effective approaches.
The common denominator is that they have only smart, excellent teachers who were successful students, themselves, and high standards throughout their systems.
US public teachers tend to come from the bottom third of their academic cohort and they tend to be trained to low standards and protected by the unions from being held to rigorous standards or, gasp, fired for low performance.
We can't successfully pursue the groovy Finnish approach to education with our current culture of mediocre teachers who, in Finland, wouldn't come even close to making the grade!
Finland and South Korea have radically different but equally effective approaches.
The common denominator is that they have only smart, excellent teachers who were successful students, themselves, and high standards throughout their systems.
US public teachers tend to come from the bottom third of their academic cohort and they tend to be trained to low standards and protected by the unions from being held to rigorous standards or, gasp, fired for low performance.
We can't successfully pursue the groovy Finnish approach to education with our current culture of mediocre teachers who, in Finland, wouldn't come even close to making the grade!
1
So... 11 hours a day for 9 months averages to about 8-9 hours a day give or take. For some reason those other workers the article compared to probably don't get 3 months off every year-- and many of them work nights and weekends just like teachers claim to be doing (knowing several [public school] teachers, outside of the first year or two of syllabus development I have not seen much of this night and weekend work).
If you are going to compare hours worked, try to compare the entire year-- I know, painful because teachers really really hate that comparison, but try anyway.
If you are going to compare hours worked, try to compare the entire year-- I know, painful because teachers really really hate that comparison, but try anyway.
4
You are so exhausted by the end of the school you sleep for a week. There is no way anyone could do that job year round. You'd die of stress and exhaustion. I have worked in offices, labs and in the field and I can tell you that my 18 years in the classroom were the most demanding of anything I did.
2
Well I know a lot of teachers also, and most, if not all do work during summers. Many work full days at summer day camps, tutor for students or instruct full day school district initiated summer programs for children with special education. These programs are become commonplace throughout school districts. These teachers actually want to work the summer programs too because they love the children that much!
The same special education children, BTW, that charter schools routinely refuse to admit because they don't fit into their comfy "one size, fits all" model of success.
The same special education children, BTW, that charter schools routinely refuse to admit because they don't fit into their comfy "one size, fits all" model of success.
3
Dear Kate Taylor,
This is such a bias misrepresentation to what is happening at these Success Academy schools. It is very clear that you have an agenda in writing this article and visiting these schools, simply by eliciting feedback from former staff members or parents. Even if you had picked organizations that have been the "best companies to work for" category and had interviewed former employees or customers, you would receive neutral, positive and/or negative feedback. By eliciting feedback from this small sample of individuals, your data is not a complete representation of the organization, its people it has working for it or the people it serves.
There is so much more positive components of running a school that you barely cared to acknowledge. Success Academy teachers, staff, scholars and their families deserve better than the misrepresentation of your article.
This is such a bias misrepresentation to what is happening at these Success Academy schools. It is very clear that you have an agenda in writing this article and visiting these schools, simply by eliciting feedback from former staff members or parents. Even if you had picked organizations that have been the "best companies to work for" category and had interviewed former employees or customers, you would receive neutral, positive and/or negative feedback. By eliciting feedback from this small sample of individuals, your data is not a complete representation of the organization, its people it has working for it or the people it serves.
There is so much more positive components of running a school that you barely cared to acknowledge. Success Academy teachers, staff, scholars and their families deserve better than the misrepresentation of your article.
11
The fact that this school is being considered a success when students are being privately tutored is quite a slap in rhe face to other NYCDOE schools that are being evaluated without the benefit of same.
The comments and parents are speaking to a truth we all know - while Success may not be perfect - the alternatives being offered are unacceptable to many parents. Parents are CHOOSING Success Academy - NOT being forced to attend. Is it right for everyone? No, but what school is? I have a severe special ed child who had to leave a progressive school for a highly structured school where all the children have the same disability. That doesn't mean Progressive is bad at all - it means children are different. Districts and teachers could bring more variations in curriculum, offering highly structured programs like SA and progressive models, and LD programs where kids with certain disabilities can thrive.
Parents are almost always their child's biggest advocate, and we need to trust parents. If parents are making the choice to go to SA, then we should respect that.
Parents are almost always their child's biggest advocate, and we need to trust parents. If parents are making the choice to go to SA, then we should respect that.
8
Amazing that this article is getting so many comments! It seems ti have hit a nerve.
2
Every child deserves high expectations and a challenging environment.
If these are the only people who can provide it in Harlem, so be it.
While I don't support cherry-picking, the differences amount to more than that. These kids are getting the high expectations and high demands that many children from different backgrounds get as a matter of course from their parents and communities.
Sounds hard and like morale could be improved but if I had to choose between having my kid in a classroom without consequence and total chaos and a 16% pass rate or Success Academy, you bet your life I'd choose the latter.
If these are the only people who can provide it in Harlem, so be it.
While I don't support cherry-picking, the differences amount to more than that. These kids are getting the high expectations and high demands that many children from different backgrounds get as a matter of course from their parents and communities.
Sounds hard and like morale could be improved but if I had to choose between having my kid in a classroom without consequence and total chaos and a 16% pass rate or Success Academy, you bet your life I'd choose the latter.
7
I just can't quite reconcile expectations on state tests with true high expectations and true challenge.
4
In this school, failing or underperforming students cannot hide. And this school schools will not shield them from the attention spot light either.
The real world is not like that, but its penalty for willed failure is high. In general society, personal privacy lets hordes adult ghetto-dwellers hide out. They like anonymity, not being bothered, but not being ignored by society. At this charter school stubborn boys cannot out wait the school's authority or bluff it into backing down.
The school's behavioral methods work. Youngsters who should be learning personal responsibility won't learn it later through the Department of Social Services, won't learn it in schools that let failure hide in corners, or won't learn it at home.
So whaddaya gonna do?
The real world is not like that, but its penalty for willed failure is high. In general society, personal privacy lets hordes adult ghetto-dwellers hide out. They like anonymity, not being bothered, but not being ignored by society. At this charter school stubborn boys cannot out wait the school's authority or bluff it into backing down.
The school's behavioral methods work. Youngsters who should be learning personal responsibility won't learn it later through the Department of Social Services, won't learn it in schools that let failure hide in corners, or won't learn it at home.
So whaddaya gonna do?
3
I love that they aspire to train the children in excellence; BUT I do not like that they are creating such a high pressure atmosphere for ALL children. The fact that they use cookie-cutter learning tactics makes me sad for the children who are not built that way... I know how inadequate they must feel... I just pray that someone comes along side them to let them know they are ok just as they are... AND to help them find the right kind of environment where they can thrive. All children can learn, but not all children can learn in this way. [AND it sounds like the high pressure trickles on to the parents, who may also not be able to thrive like that.. especially parents who may be dealing with unexpected hardships or life changes]
3
The discipline issue is a serious one. As is noted both in the article and the comments, small numbers of students can disrupt public schools significantly. A thought that instantly enters my head anytime I must discipline a student, or refer them to administration, is "what will the parent's reaction be?" It often will not be one of support. Instead of reinventing the wheel, why not correct the discipline problems in the public system created by small numbers of students with unreasonable parents, their lawyers and the judges who have shredded the system over the last 40 years? Not to mention the NYS Ed. Dept. which ties the hands of districts on discipline. It is incredibly difficult to have a student removed from a school these days, and the idea of being expelled is largely dead and gone. Many public school teachers would love to have the kind of administrative support that these teachers get. The shaming part of things, however, I completely disagree with.
9
As someone currently going through a teacher licensure program, I believe there can be a balance/negotiation of these supposedly combating philosophies. I read Paulo Friere as much as I can and although epistemologically flawless (in my opinion) he does not address the raw competitive nature of how to succeed within capitalism. Theoretically I hope I can comprehend, attain and apply the profound influences Pedagogy of the Oppressed left on me. It seams to be self evident that pragmatically these charter schools are much more congruent with what our society and capitalism proclaim as "how to achieve success". I hope I can help raise conscious and enlightened individuals one day; but not at the expense of where a Freirain pedagogy may not completely negotiate the tacit technical and unsympathetic nature of our capitalistic system. I will never capitulate to the self prophesy relationships Mrs. Moskowitz would claim concerning higher test scores, with a pay for performance commission format for teachers. This is the kind of nonsense mainly elitist politicians with no education or pedagogical experience obscurely promulgate. Its a fact that many of these students are at a huge disadvantage to middle-upper class children and a rigorous culture should be instituted. We can come up with a transformative pedagogy that combines Friereian principles with a skill set engineered to help impoverished students "succeed" within the capitalistic society we live in.
2
Did you proofread your comment ?
3
I am at work, just threw my ideas down. Thanks for your stimulating and positive comment though
3
Oh, a rough draft. Sorry.
All these detractors have never been in a public school classroom where one or two students upend an entire class schedule, and the other 24 students suffer and learn nothing. I applaud SA for not putting up with disruptive students that ruin it for everyone else.
8
Cathy, I have been in a public school classroom, in fact, as a teacher. In a low income school. Yes, disruptive students can disrupt and there are many ways to respond.
But the problem is NOT that SA is wrong with this. There are many other ways it is "wrong.". 1) Basing itself on public funding but running a de facto private model. 2) Taking credit for high test scores when it has eliminated the disruptive, disabled, and in other ways difficult students. 3) Bullying children, parents, etc, even after they eliminated the problem children.
But the problem is NOT that SA is wrong with this. There are many other ways it is "wrong.". 1) Basing itself on public funding but running a de facto private model. 2) Taking credit for high test scores when it has eliminated the disruptive, disabled, and in other ways difficult students. 3) Bullying children, parents, etc, even after they eliminated the problem children.
8
As a public school teacher and a union chapter leader, these are some of the quotes that stood out to me,
"a system driven by the relentless pursuit of better results, one that can be exhilarating for teachers and students who keep up with its demands and agonizing for those who do not."
"In an internal email that some former teachers said typified the attitude at some schools, one school leader said that students who were lagging should be made to feel "misery."
“I would cry almost every night thinking about the way I was treating these kids, and thinking that that’s not the kind of teacher I wanted to be.”
"Asked whether she thought the students who were in the red zone would be demoralized, Ms. Jones said, “I’m sure they’re not happy about it.”
Now read NYC Chancellor's Regulation A-421 regarding Verbal Abuse-
"Behavior that is prohibited by Regulation of the Chancellor A-421 includes:
Language that tends to cause fear or physical or mental distress;
Language that includes words denoting racial, ethnic, religious, gender, disability, or sexual orientation which tends to cause fear or physical or mental distress;
Language that tends to threaten physical harm; and
Language that tends to belittle or subject students to ridicule."
Sound familiar?
"a system driven by the relentless pursuit of better results, one that can be exhilarating for teachers and students who keep up with its demands and agonizing for those who do not."
"In an internal email that some former teachers said typified the attitude at some schools, one school leader said that students who were lagging should be made to feel "misery."
“I would cry almost every night thinking about the way I was treating these kids, and thinking that that’s not the kind of teacher I wanted to be.”
"Asked whether she thought the students who were in the red zone would be demoralized, Ms. Jones said, “I’m sure they’re not happy about it.”
Now read NYC Chancellor's Regulation A-421 regarding Verbal Abuse-
"Behavior that is prohibited by Regulation of the Chancellor A-421 includes:
Language that tends to cause fear or physical or mental distress;
Language that includes words denoting racial, ethnic, religious, gender, disability, or sexual orientation which tends to cause fear or physical or mental distress;
Language that tends to threaten physical harm; and
Language that tends to belittle or subject students to ridicule."
Sound familiar?
20
The school to prison pipeline replaced with the school to military pipeline?
6
Those dismayed by SA's suppression of creativity are actually shortchanging children, who no more need to be taught how to be imaginative than how to breathe. Our country's general approach to education -- trying to make it a fun activity that nurtures children's innate curiosity and enthusiasm - only dumbs-down the system, and so far has yielded the most poorly educated students in the industrial world
Teaching manners, discipline, and the lesson that hard work yields real benefits are intrinsic to teaching the rigors of math, science, and analytical reading. SA is limited to neighborhoods where children are disadvantaged, but how many parents from relatively affluent areas would welcome such schools? A lot, I bet.
I'm very left-wing in my beliefs, and think it's unfortunate that this discussion so often pits conservatives against progressives. Does anyone really believe that public schools would function better without charter schools? Who is helped by the "progressive" stance against this school? Not the children.
Teaching manners, discipline, and the lesson that hard work yields real benefits are intrinsic to teaching the rigors of math, science, and analytical reading. SA is limited to neighborhoods where children are disadvantaged, but how many parents from relatively affluent areas would welcome such schools? A lot, I bet.
I'm very left-wing in my beliefs, and think it's unfortunate that this discussion so often pits conservatives against progressives. Does anyone really believe that public schools would function better without charter schools? Who is helped by the "progressive" stance against this school? Not the children.
13
The reason for most of the left vs right nonsense is the teachers' unions. They are the primary source of opposition to charter schools. They are one of the largest donors to left wing candidates, including the NYC mayor, and the Democratic Party marches largely to the UFT and NEA's beat. Removing the unions from the policy equation, frankly, would obviate the need for charter schools within a decade. But as long as they continue to resist standards and insist on protecting bad teachers, public schools will remain in shambles.
8
Denise, you are wrong on the facts. Our country's general approach to education has yielded the highest performing PUBLIC school students on the planet -- IF the public school they attend has a lower than 10% poverty rate. Indeed, even up to a 50% poverty rate, our schools are internationally competitive.
As for whether Success Academy's methods are the right way to teach manners, discipline and hard work -- in my view, these schools are abusive. I assume that children learn best the same way that adults learn best -- in a safe environment, with excellent teachers, and under high expectations. I don't believe that fear, humiliation, and gross bribery are at the right ways to discipline and motivate children.
If affluent parents wanted schools like this, they would have them, but they don't! These military-style schools are reserved for the underclass.
As for whether Success Academy's methods are the right way to teach manners, discipline and hard work -- in my view, these schools are abusive. I assume that children learn best the same way that adults learn best -- in a safe environment, with excellent teachers, and under high expectations. I don't believe that fear, humiliation, and gross bribery are at the right ways to discipline and motivate children.
If affluent parents wanted schools like this, they would have them, but they don't! These military-style schools are reserved for the underclass.
4
The "solution" is to create public school "magnet" schools and not these hedge fund human cog manufacturing lines.
I remember everyone being worried about how the Japanese were going to take over the US in the 1990s. I very much enjoyed working with Japanese engineers back then, but I also received a front-row seat to why Japan was not ultimately going to take over the US. Their educational system was design to manufacture human cogs. Their engineers were not creative enough to do the creative design work necessary to compete against the creative US engineers (not all US engineers are creative).
What we continue to foolishly shift toward in the US is a high efficiency production line education mentality. The result being to produce what production lines produce -- unthinking cogs. This is the direct result of trying to force students into a scheme whereby they can be easily objectively measured. You objectively measure the quality of one-size-fits-all cogs. You don't objectively measure the quality of human beings.
Our system also suffers from bad parents. I know teachers who pass out D and F grades to students because they don't show up for class and don't do the work, then get called by parents screaming about how the teacher had the nerve to give little Johnny a bad grade. Public schools have to put up with this. But public "magnet" schools, like charter schools, wouldn't. Parents would have to make commitments to get and keep their kids in magnet schools.
I remember everyone being worried about how the Japanese were going to take over the US in the 1990s. I very much enjoyed working with Japanese engineers back then, but I also received a front-row seat to why Japan was not ultimately going to take over the US. Their educational system was design to manufacture human cogs. Their engineers were not creative enough to do the creative design work necessary to compete against the creative US engineers (not all US engineers are creative).
What we continue to foolishly shift toward in the US is a high efficiency production line education mentality. The result being to produce what production lines produce -- unthinking cogs. This is the direct result of trying to force students into a scheme whereby they can be easily objectively measured. You objectively measure the quality of one-size-fits-all cogs. You don't objectively measure the quality of human beings.
Our system also suffers from bad parents. I know teachers who pass out D and F grades to students because they don't show up for class and don't do the work, then get called by parents screaming about how the teacher had the nerve to give little Johnny a bad grade. Public schools have to put up with this. But public "magnet" schools, like charter schools, wouldn't. Parents would have to make commitments to get and keep their kids in magnet schools.
14
When I’m most compassionate, I think that schools like this truly mean well. The urgency and seriousness with which they treat the achievement gap ("trading floor at Goldman") is commendable and necessary. The gaps between economically privileged kids and their less privileged peers are so vast and ever-growing. It is tragic!!! It is. And schools like this get that.
My gut reaction, though, is one of fear. I truly think, 20 years from now, many of these kids (not all of them but many) are going to talk about how traumatizing these classrooms were for them because they internalized narrow criteria for judging their own worthiness. They’re forming ideas about learning that are only tied to external rewards. They’re forming ideas about their capacities that are tied to very, very rigid definitions of “what’s good.” Spelling 10 words accurately is so unimportant. And yet, that kind of assessment is contributing to a young kid’s definition of what writing is. Answering multiple-choice questions about the main idea of a short text is the message they’re receiving about what reading is.
While all of this may make for short-term gains on state tests (and therefore earn the attention of the New York Times), it is not going to sustain a kid’s life-long commitment to learning (i.e., asking questions about the world and looking for answers!). Arguably, this is what they’re going to need to get through college and what makes for a fulfilling professional life. Right?
My gut reaction, though, is one of fear. I truly think, 20 years from now, many of these kids (not all of them but many) are going to talk about how traumatizing these classrooms were for them because they internalized narrow criteria for judging their own worthiness. They’re forming ideas about learning that are only tied to external rewards. They’re forming ideas about their capacities that are tied to very, very rigid definitions of “what’s good.” Spelling 10 words accurately is so unimportant. And yet, that kind of assessment is contributing to a young kid’s definition of what writing is. Answering multiple-choice questions about the main idea of a short text is the message they’re receiving about what reading is.
While all of this may make for short-term gains on state tests (and therefore earn the attention of the New York Times), it is not going to sustain a kid’s life-long commitment to learning (i.e., asking questions about the world and looking for answers!). Arguably, this is what they’re going to need to get through college and what makes for a fulfilling professional life. Right?
8
Stop it with this hysteria. This article took a handful of isolated data points and extrapolated them to the entire SA system. We could just as easily take the far more prevalent shenanigans that go on in public schools, extrapolate them to entire system, and put them to shame. But it's not necessary for SA to do that in order to justify itself. They simply point to the fact that only about 20% of traditional public school kids read and do math at grade level, while 90% of success academy students are at or above grade level. And one of the biggest reasons why is that the anarchy and deviant behavior that prevails in public schools simply is not tolerated at SA.
8
At least they can read! If they want to go further they can, but if they can't read then nothing is open to them.
3
My first eight years in the 1940s were spent in a school with only four classrooms, four nuns teaching eight grades with weekly quizzes and frequent spelling, geography, history and math bees. Written tests in all subjects were monthly and the Iowa tests were taken at the end of the year. We learned and were not harmed by testing and memorization.
4
I am a parent of kids about both regular district public and SA. Want to know how much I spent on supplementing & test prep to make sure my elder got the basics and did well enough on state tests to get into a good public middle school? $4000. Want to know how much I need to spend on my younger at SA? $0. Want to know how many times my elder came home from school excited to tell me what he learned at district public? 0. My younger at SA? Pretty much ever day. So tired of these newbie ed reporters who are not parents, and don't know enough about education to notice the depth of the curriculum & instruction that is occurring at SA, EVEN in the context of test prep.
16
My son attended a similar charter school in New Haven, CT, for middle school. It was the best decision I ever made. In regular public schools, one or two disruptive students can easily create chaos, bringing a whole classroom down with them. Those kids should get punished for stealing the education of others and if they continue to disrupt, they should be suspended form school and sent to an alternative program. Public school in general has become a namby pamby playground where all children are told how great they are even if they don't perform. These charter schools and other like them are our great hope for competing globally. My son, who is 18 now, learned a deep, competitive work ethic that has served him well. My son was accepted at several highly selective universities with fantastic scholarships and financial aid packages. This is something that would not have happened had my son not attended an excellent charter school similar to the ones mentioned in this article. These kids at these schools are being given incredible opportunities that they would otherwise never have access to.
17
SA and other successful charter schools lay bare the lie that our public schools are good enough but for a lack of funds.
It discredits and threatens a failed system in which many vested interests are protected by a litany of excuses and student- and parent-blaming and by the tyranny of systemic, racist, diminished expectations.
We in the US have some ofthe worst public school teachers and administrators in the developed world with some of the best job security in the economy.
If you put your interests ahead of your customers and for the most part got away with it for decades, YOU'D fight to protect your racket, too!
It discredits and threatens a failed system in which many vested interests are protected by a litany of excuses and student- and parent-blaming and by the tyranny of systemic, racist, diminished expectations.
We in the US have some ofthe worst public school teachers and administrators in the developed world with some of the best job security in the economy.
If you put your interests ahead of your customers and for the most part got away with it for decades, YOU'D fight to protect your racket, too!
7
But some of the worst performing states in terms of education have minimal or no unions.
3
Fortunately my daughter has a Success Academy education which - with its emphasis on critical thinking - will teach her to not believe everything she reads in the New York Times.
18
Well, if you get rid of all the students who struggle, then of course you are going to have higher scores. What about all the students that they dispose of? They go off to a public school and drag down their averages so nothing is accomplished, the same kids who fail and the same kids who succeed are still in the same neighborhoods, they are just shuffled around between buildings.
7
So explain to me how that is any different than in "regular" public schools where you have students separated based on their grades? When I was in school in the 90's you had 3 tracks.... Invariably the school was segregated - not by race but by aptitude. Guess who were the kids who got bullied (and not just teased - but beat up and robbed)? That's not something I read somewhere - it's something I saw first hand.
4
Andre, schools aren't tracking like that much anymore. The public school system I teach in, one of PA's most affluent and highly achieving--is changing that in the HS. When I began here in 1991, we had 5 tracks at the HS level. Next year there will be two--Honors (or AP, depending on what grade the student is in) and a standard class that will enroll learning support and regular ed students alike.
Rose - my point is that all kids are not the same... Not in temperament nor aptiitude. Lumping all kids together is folly. My overall point is that in districts with a lot of poor children - you have a lot of disruption in school. Pretending all kids can hold hands together is not reality. In many schools - children that want to - or could learn - are prevented from doing so.
3
This is a devastating picture of this school. Such practices are unsustainable for children AND teachers. I take the point that such practices would never be applied to even middle class children--the parents wouldn't stand for it!
Eventually this will pass away but before it does, much damage will have been suffered by students who might have loved school, and ex-teachers who might have been good teachers for a lifetime.
Eventually this will pass away but before it does, much damage will have been suffered by students who might have loved school, and ex-teachers who might have been good teachers for a lifetime.
8
In the meantime, much, much more damage has been done to many more students of failing public schools run by people who have a million excuses why schools and children are failing and virtually none of them have anything to do with the performance, intelligence, training or behavior of the adults in the classrooms.
Public schools have had decades to show the way and have betrayed the public's trust and failed society and resulted in one of the most expensive - and worst-performing - public primary education systems in the developed world.
Teacher unions blame the victims and point the finger at everyone but themselves, saying that MORE money and MORE freedom and NO measurement of student or teacher performance is the answer to what ails us.
There's a reason why the public-education-union-industrial complex is losing the debate and why parents and general citizens alike are demanding reform.
You can't run a bad public education system staffed with mediocre talent demanding less measurement and expect it to take kids -disadvantaged or advantaged - and maintain the capabilities or quality of our society.
The revolution in American education has begun and it will not stop until the US gets world-class public primary education.
Public schools have had decades to show the way and have betrayed the public's trust and failed society and resulted in one of the most expensive - and worst-performing - public primary education systems in the developed world.
Teacher unions blame the victims and point the finger at everyone but themselves, saying that MORE money and MORE freedom and NO measurement of student or teacher performance is the answer to what ails us.
There's a reason why the public-education-union-industrial complex is losing the debate and why parents and general citizens alike are demanding reform.
You can't run a bad public education system staffed with mediocre talent demanding less measurement and expect it to take kids -disadvantaged or advantaged - and maintain the capabilities or quality of our society.
The revolution in American education has begun and it will not stop until the US gets world-class public primary education.
3
Moscowitz's rationale for her draconian methods is to give her students the access they are traditionally denied. But her tyrannical empire which produces high standardized test scores on State tests is a Pyrrhic victory: NOT ONE of the students in the first Success Academy 8th grade graduating class got accepted to any of NYC's specialized high schools and only 44% graduated! The school did not work for 56% of the first cohort! Success' methods contribute to access denied. What is successful about this? Why do the data driven billionaires continue to fund this network? Why doesn't the NY Times report these data?
9
Again, another union stooge repeating the irrelevant fact that SA has not sent any kids to NYC's specialized high schools. Let's just ignore the fact that 90% of them read and do math at or above grade level, and only focus on things that might discredit them.
5
Out of the NYC public school cohort how many children got into the specialized HS? Out of millions, how many few hundreds. These kids are reading above and beyond anything in the elementary grades and this is what you bring up?
4
It is horrendous that parents have to choose between a dysfunctional public school system in which their children have little chance to succeed and this charter school network that demoralize and pit children against in each other in order to achieve the results they do.
We already know that the NYC public school system is failing children, and and given the layers of bureaucracy in place, that probably won't change anytime soon.
The charter network as measured by test scores seems to be a success, but it doesn't seem like it will scale out to service the entire breadth of NYC public school students.
A good idea might be to get an objective outside party with no affinity to charter schools or public teaching unions to determine what non abrasive methods can be brought over from the charter network into public schools. This needs to be unencumbered by the influence of the teachers union and we need full insight into all the metrics being collected from students in the charter network.
We already know that the NYC public school system is failing children, and and given the layers of bureaucracy in place, that probably won't change anytime soon.
The charter network as measured by test scores seems to be a success, but it doesn't seem like it will scale out to service the entire breadth of NYC public school students.
A good idea might be to get an objective outside party with no affinity to charter schools or public teaching unions to determine what non abrasive methods can be brought over from the charter network into public schools. This needs to be unencumbered by the influence of the teachers union and we need full insight into all the metrics being collected from students in the charter network.
2
Two cheers for Ms. Moskowitz and her Success Academy. For poor, at risk students, her schools, which emphasize accountability of teachers, students and parents, seem to offer a way out of poverty.
However, as veteran reading specialist, I know that displaying the failures of kids with reading disabilities is the way to NOT teach them to read. Worse still, it teaches them to hate reading.
However, as veteran reading specialist, I know that displaying the failures of kids with reading disabilities is the way to NOT teach them to read. Worse still, it teaches them to hate reading.
7
When parents can't teach their children basic skills for functioning in a society whose "timeout" will be a jail sentence, it seems Ms. Moskowitz needs to be praised for her and the school's efforts. Some of these kids come from war zones called home where hope was dead at their birth.
Yes, give the kids books as "rewards" because after mom and dad have taken them to Disney World or Moma after a trip to to the Apple store, of course, a book would just make the child's day! "Beaver, did you clean the garage and do your other chores? " A few years of discipline with a vision and a mindset for a lifetime above misery and despair sounds preferable to the all but certain destitution awaiting them.
Finally, open a school in rural Kentucky where our ACT scores hover at 20 (out of 36?), yet more than half the students leave high school with grades that suggest Davidson, Middleberry, and Brandeis. Painful, yes, even unto disgraceful. Moskowitz's methods provide a fighting chance for children held hostage by poverty. As long as there is no cheating and REAL abuse, slapping and telling the child he or she is worthless, and resilient kids know the difference, let Success prove itself. I have no doubt that some of the teachers cannot separate the barren theory of a college classroom and run toward Romper Room or Mr. Rogers-- where they grew up--rather than devote themselves to the demands of 11 hour days and a child's future. I couldn't, but more power to those who can!
Yes, give the kids books as "rewards" because after mom and dad have taken them to Disney World or Moma after a trip to to the Apple store, of course, a book would just make the child's day! "Beaver, did you clean the garage and do your other chores? " A few years of discipline with a vision and a mindset for a lifetime above misery and despair sounds preferable to the all but certain destitution awaiting them.
Finally, open a school in rural Kentucky where our ACT scores hover at 20 (out of 36?), yet more than half the students leave high school with grades that suggest Davidson, Middleberry, and Brandeis. Painful, yes, even unto disgraceful. Moskowitz's methods provide a fighting chance for children held hostage by poverty. As long as there is no cheating and REAL abuse, slapping and telling the child he or she is worthless, and resilient kids know the difference, let Success prove itself. I have no doubt that some of the teachers cannot separate the barren theory of a college classroom and run toward Romper Room or Mr. Rogers-- where they grew up--rather than devote themselves to the demands of 11 hour days and a child's future. I couldn't, but more power to those who can!
7
These schools might look good by the numbers, but I have heard nothing but horror stories. I'm a young educator, previously English, now childhood special needs, and the group interview I did for Success a few years back was the most unprofessional I have ever been to in my life. The interviews snickered at applicants' responses while showing each other notes they wrote on a clipboard. If your answers indicated that you would teach in any way but drilling test info--I made the mistake of saying I would have students relate a reading passage to their own lives--they would stare you down and say "We don't really DO that here." If you weren't moldable, you were out--prior experiences and credentials be damned. A new coworker recently arrived at my current school from Success, and when I asked how it had been, she said "I'm just proud I stuck out the year."
I've worked in inner city schools. I've worked with struggling students. There are better ways to get to success than drilling for the numbers. Giving students ownership is one of them. I've seen it work.
I've worked in inner city schools. I've worked with struggling students. There are better ways to get to success than drilling for the numbers. Giving students ownership is one of them. I've seen it work.
18
Thank you for your contribution. An island of sanity!
2
actually "relating a passage to your own life" is the only thing most kids are asked to do in K-12 traditional public school English classes, but is absolutely NOT what they will be asked to do in college - which is why more than half need remediation when they get there.
2
Thank you for your positive reply! In hindsight, I am so glad I did not end up there. So many of my students are so bright, and many will one day go on to college or career success, but with their special needs not one of them would be welcome in a school like Success. Not to mention, I'm at a place where my credentials and ideals are seen as having value, instead of lowering my value as a test driller. Often I think we've forgotten the true purpose of education (or none of us can agree on what it is!).
1
It sounds like their approach, at least in some instances, is too extreme - you've gotta be careful that you don't cross the line from strict/demanding into abusive when you're dealing with kids. But at least it's getting tried out. Public schools are too homogeneous; we need a greater diversity of educational approaches thrown into the mix so that we can figure out what works and what doesn't.
2
"Suspension rates at Success schools compared with public schools is higher" Well, that says it all. Of course, the results are better! If you get rid of all those who would bring down the numbers, the numbers will be higher! Why on earth isn't this the headline to any story about Eva Moskowitz and her rants?
7
So your argument is that you shouldn't suspend disrupt students???? That's part of the problem in the system... Children who behave badly drag down other students!!
4
Why should the suspension rate of public schools, where kids can get into a fight or curse out a teacher and be back in the classroom the same day, be the gold standard? You act up, you get bounced. This is yet another example of how progressives are perfectly willing to allow the minority of kids who misbehave to be a detriment to the majority who want to learn.
7
The fundamental principle is awry. Shaming a non performing student will have an effect which is temporary, but it most certainly will NOT foster intrinsic motivation in the future, and will most probably hit the wall.
I am glad to see the teachers have supplies. Between state monies and private donations, it's none too surprising.
The principal is 26? Now there's a wealth of experience for you.
Charter schools have it easy, and they steal from [public schools who have mandates. Nothing but privatization of eduction. Look at New Orleans.
Finally, no pension, just a retirement account [which cannot be relied on.
If that is the future of education, sign me out.
I am glad to see the teachers have supplies. Between state monies and private donations, it's none too surprising.
The principal is 26? Now there's a wealth of experience for you.
Charter schools have it easy, and they steal from [public schools who have mandates. Nothing but privatization of eduction. Look at New Orleans.
Finally, no pension, just a retirement account [which cannot be relied on.
If that is the future of education, sign me out.
11
New Orleans schools have been dramatically better since the system went Charter!
1
News Flash...the rest of the economy does quite fine with a retirement account.
The pension fixation of public teachers speaks to their innumeracy and their sense of entitlement DESPITE the fact that they are the labor force in one of the lowest-performing sectors of the American economy.
God forbid you have your job performance measured let alone be compensated based on it or work long hours or summers or have retirement accounts like everyone else in the economy.
The pension fixation of public teachers speaks to their innumeracy and their sense of entitlement DESPITE the fact that they are the labor force in one of the lowest-performing sectors of the American economy.
God forbid you have your job performance measured let alone be compensated based on it or work long hours or summers or have retirement accounts like everyone else in the economy.
1
What happens when these kids arrive to their first job and sit with their hands clasped, waiting for instructions from their manager? When do they learn to think independently and creatively? When do they learn initiative and problem-solving? Do we really want to create a generation of robots that can take tests well, but cannot think for themselves?
12
"Do we really want to create a generation of robots that can take tests well, but cannot think for themselves?"
We may not want it, but the oligarchs who call the shots seem to want it.
We may not want it, but the oligarchs who call the shots seem to want it.
At least they will have a job- I worry about the 70percent illiterate public school graduates who may not be as lucky
Why do these methods and mind sets remind me so much of China under Mao? I am sure they work and the children learn discipline and classroom atmosphere is very focused --which contribute immeasurably to the process of education--but how happy are these kids or their teachers??
8
Ironically China is attempting to make their education system more like ours. Google Yong Zhao, educated in China and now Professor of Global Education at U of Oregon who states that our public education system fosters creativity while more rigid systems like China's creates more robotic thinkers unable to think outside the box.
1
These schools appear to be preparing students for jobs at an Amazon warehouse. Is that what we really want? Human 'robots'?
10
Well, it's sadly hilarious, after reading all the comments, that those who praise Success Academy and especially for reminding us that children will of course need to pass standardized tests to get into places like grad school--
that we still come up against that so-far unrefuted fact--no Success Academy student has yet passed the test for the NYC specialized high schools. Despite, in most cases, eight years of relentless test prep.
Who does get in? Kids from those derided public schools and from elite private NYC schools.
And THAT's how we know Ms. Moscowitz has built a house of cards and the clock is ticking on it.
Who's gonna pay for the therapy for all the kids she damaged along the way?
that we still come up against that so-far unrefuted fact--no Success Academy student has yet passed the test for the NYC specialized high schools. Despite, in most cases, eight years of relentless test prep.
Who does get in? Kids from those derided public schools and from elite private NYC schools.
And THAT's how we know Ms. Moscowitz has built a house of cards and the clock is ticking on it.
Who's gonna pay for the therapy for all the kids she damaged along the way?
7
Admission to an elite public high school is the standard you are setting only because it's the only thing you can find to hang your hat on. The fact is SA kids are reading, writing and doing math at or above grade level in aggregate numbers that blow away traditional public primary schools. So be as snide as you want, SCA, but don't begrudge the parents who decide this is what's best for their kids.
6
Or perhaps despite their effort these kids can't quite make it into Stuyvesant. Even first grade is late for certain kinds of learning. If in first grade teachers are instilling patterns of good behavior in their charges then other kinds of learning are delayed.
We can't have it both ways: Critics of our "elite" public schools complain that students there are canny test takers and robots, while critics of Success Academy complain that there's too much emphasis on testing and that the students there become robots with no imagination.
So? Which is it?
And can we dispense with the word "elite"? Brooklyn Tech, Bronx Science, and Stuyvesant are filled with kids of -- among others -- non-English speaking immigrants who want the best for the children they have brought into this world and do not have the funds for test-prep as so many critics allege. What they have done early on is instilled a work ethic and desire to succeed. (And not in terms of money-making. We leave that to private school students and those attending good Long Island public schools.).
Go ahead, dumb down these schools also. Just because some kids don't get in doesn't mean they should get in or that the entrance exams are unfair.
We can't have it both ways: Critics of our "elite" public schools complain that students there are canny test takers and robots, while critics of Success Academy complain that there's too much emphasis on testing and that the students there become robots with no imagination.
So? Which is it?
And can we dispense with the word "elite"? Brooklyn Tech, Bronx Science, and Stuyvesant are filled with kids of -- among others -- non-English speaking immigrants who want the best for the children they have brought into this world and do not have the funds for test-prep as so many critics allege. What they have done early on is instilled a work ethic and desire to succeed. (And not in terms of money-making. We leave that to private school students and those attending good Long Island public schools.).
Go ahead, dumb down these schools also. Just because some kids don't get in doesn't mean they should get in or that the entrance exams are unfair.
1
B: "Elite" is not an ugly word. In terms of the specialized high schools, it honors academic ability and achievement, and as I have written elsewhere, those high schools are the Golden Road for many talented children of modest family means. Many public school children who gain admission there do superior work to their peers admitted from expensive private schools.
But if Ms. Moscowitz's great boast is the scores her students achieve on standardized tests, compared to public school children, then it is fair to ask why her students fail this particular test, success at which does indeed open many doors to a brilliant future.
But if Ms. Moscowitz's great boast is the scores her students achieve on standardized tests, compared to public school children, then it is fair to ask why her students fail this particular test, success at which does indeed open many doors to a brilliant future.
1
My daughter is a teacher in TX at a KIPP charter school, and I am guessing that Success Academy schools modeled their schools based on the KIPP approach, as this almost exactly describes the learning environment in my daughter's classroom. She is a brand new teacher in her first year; she works well over 60 hours a week as a first grade teacher, and her feelings typically alternate between passion for her classroom and students and frustration at many of the issues new teachers have described at Success Academy. Low pay for the hours actually worked, emphasis on test scores, etc.
However, she does describe so many positives--enthusiastic teachers who WANT to be there, an environment that is free of chaos and and students who are expected to pay attention and learn. Yes, the teacher turnover is high--sustaining that commitment and time is near impossible when you have a family to go home to--so this job attracts young single men and women who are highly motivated and passionate. Inexperienced yes, but the model of these schools helps mold these young teachers into a seasoned teachers who are able to command a classroom very quickly. The ones that can't--assist until they are able, or end up leaving. Yes, some of that turnover is burn out, which is completely understandable, but some turnover is a direct result of an inability to live up to their very high expectations for teachers as well as their high expectations for students.
However, she does describe so many positives--enthusiastic teachers who WANT to be there, an environment that is free of chaos and and students who are expected to pay attention and learn. Yes, the teacher turnover is high--sustaining that commitment and time is near impossible when you have a family to go home to--so this job attracts young single men and women who are highly motivated and passionate. Inexperienced yes, but the model of these schools helps mold these young teachers into a seasoned teachers who are able to command a classroom very quickly. The ones that can't--assist until they are able, or end up leaving. Yes, some of that turnover is burn out, which is completely understandable, but some turnover is a direct result of an inability to live up to their very high expectations for teachers as well as their high expectations for students.
7
This is the Frankenstein of Education, driving kids to wet themselves to 'instill' motivation through desperation. This locks down every teacher and every student to perform by denying life--movement, play, internal space, internal sense of the self, self-navigation, self-discovery, self-control. Kids leaving huge parts of their humanity outside the door to their classrooms to enter the inner sanctum of the god of education. Total adult agenda to shame kids into performing for production numbers that make a system appear productive. This is education that has lost complete touch with its humanity. If we are going to mandate education and pool young people into so-called learning environments, we had better start rejecting Factory Farm tactics and thinking about how we can respect the internal gifts that each child is born with. That may sound like pablum to the Type A fanaticism of Ms. Moskowitz, but if we can't move in the direction to humanize the learning culture, education's mission will continue to be 'deadicated' and misguided. Success is merely the logical extreme of a teach & test learning culture.
7
How else to say this? If you don't like it, don't send your kids there. But don't be so condescending as to believe you are competent to make decisions for other parents. most of whom are faced with choosing between Success Academy and schools where anarchy, violence, and drugs prevail -- and where only about 20% of students perform at grade level. You progressives thing you know everything. How about you just back off and stop pretending that you know what's better for someone else's kid?
5
And, ultimately, they don't really learn anything. Whatever skills they've gained will quickly evaporate unless they've learned to self-regulate and develop themselves.
Mr. Changstein, the post-apocaplyptic hellscape you imagine the public schools to be does not exist outside your feverish and unbalanced imagination. you are envisioning do
Mr. Changstein, the post-apocaplyptic hellscape you imagine the public schools to be does not exist outside your feverish and unbalanced imagination. you are envisioning do
1
The public schools are just not that bad.
2
I applaud this school and every member of the organization. They are replacing the absence of order and society as well as educating these kids. I will bet every penny that I ever earn that the kids that graduate from this program will out earn and out perform their peers in the public school system and do so by a wide margin. Winning is tough and takes rigor from all parties. I was a substitute teacher in an urban public school teacher while in law school and I used my military college experience combined with my Army experience and home life in a similar fashion to this school. My single major departure from their program appears to be my use of terms of respect when addressing every student and requiring the same in return. Demonstrating overwhelming respect for these kids left them disarmed and speechless. It was also evident from my positive attitude that I loved people and wanted them to succeed. I am now retired and teach JROTC and once again can attest to the benefits of structure, standards and discipline.
7
Sorry, Jim--you already lost your bet. None of the first class eligible to take the test for the NYC specialized public high schools was able to pass that test--though 20% of public school students did. The specialized high schools are the Golden Road to success for many students of high ability but modest means.
Structure, standards and discipline, as you state, are good things. Fear and abuse are not.
Structure, standards and discipline, as you state, are good things. Fear and abuse are not.
3
SCA - this line of attack is pathetic, but you're repeating it because it's all you have. The fact is that SA kids read,write and do math at levels that blow away traditional public schools. Be honest, are you a union stooge?
1
And how many from the public schools boasting 5 percent literacy rate got into these elite hs?
Reporting that students at charter schools "outperform their public school peers" is quite misleading, since charter schools weed out the more problematic students that go back to the public schools, skewing any possible statistical comparison. Comparing apples and oranges is a standard advertising ruse, but not truthful journalism. Is this piece and ad?
4
Hopefully it is an advertisement, one designed to attract parents of students that want to excel. There is no benefit to motivated kids having unmotivated, low achieving kids in the classroom.
1
Ads for private schools are OK, as long as those schools don't suck much-needed funds out of the public school system. And there's no honesty in comparing them to public schools, or using them as models, when there will never be a basis for fair comparison.
1
How can they do that when kids get in by lottery? Did you read the article? 22,000 applicants for about 2700 slots.
2
It is amazing how much this sounds like my Catholic elementary schooling in the 1950s. Sister Melissa would be very proud.
6
It is amazing what an additional $22 million in a $71 million budget can do and being able to work their teachers like dogs with no union protection must be nice. Robbing Peter to pay Paul only works while Peter stands for it. What happens when the private donors stop trying to score their ideological points once the public schools are destroyed and their donations have achieved their purpose? What happens when fewer and fewer persons enter the teaching profession because the working conditions are being made terrible? Then we will really see the chaos Ms. Moskowitz so deplores.
8
Its galling to read an article that seeks to be comprehensive yet ignores two key questions: What are the class sizes? How many students have IEPs (learning disabilities)
3
I wondered where the special education students were too, until I realized they must not have any.
1
Many may not agree with Success Academy's methods, but you cannot ignore the fact that these children will be far more likely to succeed in life than their peers in Harlem public schools.
8
Because of the selection bias -- these are children whose parents were motivated enough on their behalf to enter a lottery, and who were involved enough to keep their children in this school (by coming to meetings, and supervising copious amounts of homework, and also children who do not have emotional or learning issues that make it difficult for them to cope with the harsh disciplinary environment -- these children cannot be compared to their peers in Harlem public schools.
Therefore, if these children are successful in life, we won't know whether it is because of Success Academy's methods, or in spite of them. Because of all the selection factors above, are these Harlem children ones who were going to succeed anyway?
Therefore, if these children are successful in life, we won't know whether it is because of Success Academy's methods, or in spite of them. Because of all the selection factors above, are these Harlem children ones who were going to succeed anyway?
It's very telling that the charter school industry is promoted and funded by right-wing theocrats and oligarchs. They REALLY hate public schooling, and yearn for a system where they can simply discard the students who can't fit into their rigid expectations.
5
I think that the practice of intimidating and expecting a child to wet itself rather than heed the natural needs of its own body is horrifying and abusive. The mind AND body are equally important. It's very sad and scary that the teachers & principals find this to be a badge of honor. I bet my bottom dollar that when the principal needs to use the restroom, she takes a break WHENEVER she needs to. Disgusting and completely unnecessary.
5
Of course mind & body are important. To get better with any system one makes mistakes and self corrects. To change culture in public school system which consistently achieves mediocre results (like NYC and Atlanta as well), it takes leadership, discipline, commitment and caring. Kudos to the incredible leadership at Success Academy!!!!!!! They CARE about children and the results speak for themselves. Children are excelling and developing a disciplined and productive lifestyle.
Isn't publicly posting grades a violation of FERPA,the federal law designed to protect students' privacy?
6
There are comments here comparing this type of pressure and discipline favorably to educational methods in South Korea. Apparently, these commentators are not aware that South Korea has the highest suidide rate in the world, which many attribute to the extreme academic pressure.
It's easy to get kids to obey when using fear and shame based techniques, but what will this do to their self-esteem?
Educational techniques grounded in positive reenforcement require more patience at times than cracking the whip, but they are far more effective and leave the children's self-confidence intact. I know this first hand because I worked as an elementary school teacher.
It's easy to get kids to obey when using fear and shame based techniques, but what will this do to their self-esteem?
Educational techniques grounded in positive reenforcement require more patience at times than cracking the whip, but they are far more effective and leave the children's self-confidence intact. I know this first hand because I worked as an elementary school teacher.
6
so what exactly is the purpose of educating children? to take tests or think critically? since the job creators can't seem to create nearly enough jobs, how do we know what jobs to educate them for?
and how good could public schools be if they had the kind of outside funding that many charters get? how good could they be if they were managed by faculty senates who hired their own principals, rather as boards hire CEOs.
and how good could public schools be if they had the kind of outside funding that many charters get? how good could they be if they were managed by faculty senates who hired their own principals, rather as boards hire CEOs.
3
If a child can't read how can it think critically?
1
Students who don't have learning problems and who have strong parental support may thrive under the conditions of such a school. Some things aren't new. 60 years ago in my elementary school we had four reading groups. I started off as a slow reader but was motivated to move to a higher group. I remember when I asked the teacher if I could move up. She had me read from a different book, asked me questions, and then promoted me. I recall happily exchanging my old book with a new one. Also in math we had to master the time tables. A chart was posted on the wall. Again I had parents who assisted me at home. But what about those who don't?
6
I have heard firsthand from parents, that their children wet themselves as well. The emotional toll this place seems to take on kids is atrocious. Rip up a student's paper in front of the class is supposed to MOTIVATE them? Jesus, that is emotional abuse. I have toured this school, and was not impressed at all. The principal was all of 12 years old and seemed disinterested in genuine learning, just scores and ratings. I'm all for being strict in school, but this seems extreme. And why do girls wear skirts in below-10 degree weather and boys get to wear sweaters and pants? Talk about sexist as well.
4
Great - you're not the kind of parent they want anyway, so please don't send your kids there. But at the same time, don't begrudge parents who think their kids need this structure and whose only other choice is a school where only 20% manage to perform at grade level. Kids are resilient. They'll get over it once they learn that school isn't a joke, that they are there with a job to do and are accountable for their output.
3
On the other hand, there are teachers who have ripped up homework paragraphs of well-off students whose looseleaf paper is supplied by the school, who have no lack of hand-eye coordination or intellectual acuity or past fine work but who simply scribbled two blotched, thoughtless, unpunctuated sentences rather than the six or so required, ample to respond to a question designed to help the students focus on a character or image in a text.
You can't do it very often, but once every few years gets across the point. And of course it's very rarely needed if you show that you respect your students and expect the best they're capable of.
And anyway, the offending student knows perfectly well that she has submitted dreck.
You can't do it very often, but once every few years gets across the point. And of course it's very rarely needed if you show that you respect your students and expect the best they're capable of.
And anyway, the offending student knows perfectly well that she has submitted dreck.
The problem is that these rigid environments don't prepare kids for college. Imagine the shock it would be to go from Success Academy to an elite university where there are virtually no rules and classes are largely unstructured.
3
Call me crazy, but I would find it less disruptive to my concentration to take 5 minutes to go to the bathroom than to spend the rest of the test covered in my own rapidly cooling urine.
6
If I worked under the circumstances described in the article I would certainly consider this a hostile work environment. Fear and intimidation is different than respect and Love. This does not sound like either. There are aspects of both Love and respect but the shadows of Fear and intimidation are cast more greatly in this characterization of Success Academy.
3
It appears that the Success Academy Charter Schools inculcate discipline and hardwork in the students, in a way it's a plus point. The fear that the children are subjected to too much of hardwork and that they should enjoy school like a playground is correct only for the children in the age group of five to ten years at the most and not beyond that.
The children are very much capable of putting the hardwork and also learn discipline at the same time. If the children are not these qualities at the early stages, they stand no chance of learning but there's a limit to the discipline imposed by the teachers or parents for that matter.
I don't agree to the statement that those students, who hire tutors stand better chance of doing well either in the class or in the tests unless the tutor completes the assignments all by himself or herself and the student gets bogus grades. A tutor can only guide the student but it's onus on the student concerned to put into practice what is taught by the tutor.
I have read a number of paras but this article seems to be endless. So, I lost patience of reading it entirely. From what I read, it's not giving the correct picture that in what way their modus operandi is better than Public Schools ?.
The children are very much capable of putting the hardwork and also learn discipline at the same time. If the children are not these qualities at the early stages, they stand no chance of learning but there's a limit to the discipline imposed by the teachers or parents for that matter.
I don't agree to the statement that those students, who hire tutors stand better chance of doing well either in the class or in the tests unless the tutor completes the assignments all by himself or herself and the student gets bogus grades. A tutor can only guide the student but it's onus on the student concerned to put into practice what is taught by the tutor.
I have read a number of paras but this article seems to be endless. So, I lost patience of reading it entirely. From what I read, it's not giving the correct picture that in what way their modus operandi is better than Public Schools ?.
1
I'm always surprised by the wave of comments on stories like this that disparage schools for "teaching kids to take a test." I wonder how many of those commenters have gone to graduate school or work in a profession that required testing to get a job? To get into both the master's and PhD programs I attended (and to be fully funded in both), guess what, I had to take a standardized test and get top scores. Does my ability to do well on standardized tests- which I was taught as a regular kid in a regular public elementary school in the 1980s and 1990s- mean I can't think creatively or originally? No way you could be successful in graduate school if you can't form original thoughts.
So for all those anti-standardized testers out there, I hope you don't have aspirations for your children going to graduate or professional school or joining the civil services, because, you know, those experiences also have standardized tests as the gateway.
So for all those anti-standardized testers out there, I hope you don't have aspirations for your children going to graduate or professional school or joining the civil services, because, you know, those experiences also have standardized tests as the gateway.
9
You cannot compare adults to children. We expect adults to have learned how to take tests and to have a level of maturity and self-sacrifice children do not.
Standardized test scores show only a limited range of abilities. Indeed, the SAT and ACT are poorer predictors of college or university success than high school grades are.
Standardized test scores show only a limited range of abilities. Indeed, the SAT and ACT are poorer predictors of college or university success than high school grades are.
2
Those who disparage successful charter schools have no recourse other than to try to discredit the measure of that success - standardized tests.
It would be no more disingenuous - but even more transparent - for the pro-teachers-union crowd to ridicule successful charter schools' graduation rates and graduate college attendance rates, but it seems even they have some limits to their shamelessness.
The anti-reform crowd say that you cannot measure a student's knowledge or a teacher's performance. What sort of scoundrels (or dullards) would try to hide behind such obviously foolish assertions?
Public education reform is one of the greatest and most pressing civil rights issues of our time...oh, and it should be noted I'm referring to the civil rights of the CHILDREN, not their by and large mediocre, failing teachers!
It would be no more disingenuous - but even more transparent - for the pro-teachers-union crowd to ridicule successful charter schools' graduation rates and graduate college attendance rates, but it seems even they have some limits to their shamelessness.
The anti-reform crowd say that you cannot measure a student's knowledge or a teacher's performance. What sort of scoundrels (or dullards) would try to hide behind such obviously foolish assertions?
Public education reform is one of the greatest and most pressing civil rights issues of our time...oh, and it should be noted I'm referring to the civil rights of the CHILDREN, not their by and large mediocre, failing teachers!
3
Horse: in the first SA class eligible to take the test for the NYC specialized public high schools, every student who took the test failed it.
The gateway, as you call it, clanged shut.
The gateway, as you call it, clanged shut.
2
"After the election, she was recruited by a pair of hedge fund managers who were interested in setting up a charter school". Why were a pair of hedge fund managers interested in starting a charter school? There has to be a profit motive here somewhere.
The problem with public education is not the unions. The major problem is that the right wing would rather spend money on wars than on educating our children.
The Charter School movement is not the solution.
The problem with public education is not the unions. The major problem is that the right wing would rather spend money on wars than on educating our children.
The Charter School movement is not the solution.
3
We in theUS pay more per pupil than nearly every other developed nation and get nearly the worst results.
Throwing more money into a broken system run by professionals from the bottom third of their educational cohort will help no one but the mediocre (at best) job-for-life adults whose insistence their job performance cannot be accurately or fairly measured betrays both their ignorance and their child-betraying self-interest.
Throwing more money into a broken system run by professionals from the bottom third of their educational cohort will help no one but the mediocre (at best) job-for-life adults whose insistence their job performance cannot be accurately or fairly measured betrays both their ignorance and their child-betraying self-interest.
Wow, here is an example of how competitive our kids could be if only we could get rid of the teachers unions.
3
The boogie man of unions needs a rest. Check test scores in non union states and you will not find them on top. Consider this instead- in the early 1950-19670 era smart women had limited career choices. Many went into teaching. Options opened up and few efforts were made to keep an elevated educated teaching force. Anyone can teach... Ha!We are paying for not honoring the work that was done. For putting data hounds, not teachers in charge. Do you think teachers want kids crammed in so tightly they can't be reached? Do you think true teachers want a student to fail? NO!
1
I think pillpoppinpuppy was commenting with tongue in cheek.
Don't argue with success. Learning how to spell is the first step towards a good citizenship and a good life. Not everyone can excel or be creative. However, to excel one must learn how to spell first.
3
Wow! Charter school teachers have power! Public school teachers have no such power. After I quietly and respectfully urged a student to complete homework which he rarely did, his mother called the principal to complain. I was told to never mention homework to him again. However, I was still held accountable for his state test score. Accountability with no power...that's the challenge of the public school teacher. Give the public school teacher the power and resources of the charter school teacher and then compare the results.
3
SA isn't perfect and isn't for everyone. But I support giving parents the choice to choose for themselves the right school for their children.
However, the posts by a number of PS teachers are also illuminating. Many have pointed to the fact of one or two 'non-conforming' kids having to disturb the whole class and that public schools do not have the resources and power of excluding such children.
IF we think that part of the reason SA is so successful is because they are able to separate out children not suitable for classroom environment. Why not study ways in which such a practice can be adapted for public classrooms. no one says these kids should be expelled, but if we have an honest dialogue involving PS teacher on how to structure the classrooms, may all kids benefit?
Would be very interested to hear input from PS teachers on how to improve PS.
Let their side be heard.
Let'
However, the posts by a number of PS teachers are also illuminating. Many have pointed to the fact of one or two 'non-conforming' kids having to disturb the whole class and that public schools do not have the resources and power of excluding such children.
IF we think that part of the reason SA is so successful is because they are able to separate out children not suitable for classroom environment. Why not study ways in which such a practice can be adapted for public classrooms. no one says these kids should be expelled, but if we have an honest dialogue involving PS teacher on how to structure the classrooms, may all kids benefit?
Would be very interested to hear input from PS teachers on how to improve PS.
Let their side be heard.
Let'
No real science behind the Success formula, just associations like better test results. An example of lack of science is delaying foreign language study until 8th grade. The science is compelling that foreign language study works best when the neurobiological development of a child's brain is in the language acquisition mode which is very early. The approach of Teach Like A Champion is a better model for education. Engagement with patience is always better than punishment or public humiliation. I am not a supporter of charter schools because they shift money from public education to private enterprise.
3
What good is it to teach a kid a foreign language when he can't can't speak, read or write his native language and can't do arithmetic. Perhaps if the SA model becomes the norm across the city and standards are raised across the board, foreign language instruction to younger kids can be reintroduced. Until then, it's best to focus on the core skills kids will need to survive.
2
It seems that although the students do well on tests in the school, this doesn't translate on tests outside of their school. Makes you wonder what is happening inside the school during testing. Possible cheating like in Atlanta?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/gonzalez-success-charter-s...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/gonzalez-success-charter-s...
2
It seems as if every parent posting here claiming their child isn't treated like this sends their child to the "newest" version of Success Academy -- schools which Eva Moskowitz opened in some of the most affluent neighborhoods of Manhattan and Brooklyn that give priority ONLY to residents of those school districts. There are now MORE Success Academy schools in affluent districts in Brooklyn and Manhattan than there are in very poor District 7 in the Bronx. Despite the wait lists for the lone District 7 school being far longer while the schools in affluent neighborhoods have empty seats.
The parents defending Success Academy here want us to know that their "gifted" students at those affluent Success Academy schools are treated so much better than the low-income students at this school. And why not? The affluent students (even the one with Aspergers) will likely score well on the state exam no matter what, just like they do at every public school that has few at-risk students. So why would Success Academy use tactics like those seen here that they seem to reserve ONLY for their schools in low-income neighborhoods? There is nothing wrong with being strict and having high standards. There IS something wrong with assuming that any student who doesn't meet those standards is just not trying hard enough and doesn't "fit" with you school. There is something wrong with using humiliation and suspensions to rid your school of the students you don't want. Shameful.
The parents defending Success Academy here want us to know that their "gifted" students at those affluent Success Academy schools are treated so much better than the low-income students at this school. And why not? The affluent students (even the one with Aspergers) will likely score well on the state exam no matter what, just like they do at every public school that has few at-risk students. So why would Success Academy use tactics like those seen here that they seem to reserve ONLY for their schools in low-income neighborhoods? There is nothing wrong with being strict and having high standards. There IS something wrong with assuming that any student who doesn't meet those standards is just not trying hard enough and doesn't "fit" with you school. There is something wrong with using humiliation and suspensions to rid your school of the students you don't want. Shameful.
5
My prediction is that Success's success isn't sustainable. In five years, the schools may still be around, but not many will see them as a model. To quote folk singer Cheryl Wheeler, "It's the right way to do the wrong thing." If test scores are what you care about, this is a way to get higher test scores.
Ultimately, we won't (much) improve the quality of education in this country until we recognize that schools aren't broken, but rather do something fundamentally different than what we pretend they do.
If we knew something about how people learn, but nothing about schools, the system we built to develop informed and active citizens would look almost nothing like the system of schooling.
Ultimately, we won't (much) improve the quality of education in this country until we recognize that schools aren't broken, but rather do something fundamentally different than what we pretend they do.
If we knew something about how people learn, but nothing about schools, the system we built to develop informed and active citizens would look almost nothing like the system of schooling.
1
The interesting thing is, public schools are immune to such scrutiny of accountability. I'd like to see a realistic comparison not another politicized microscopic dissection of the charter schools. For each of the said deficiency, what's the equivalent in public schools? No one dares go there. The result is simply too disheartening and embarrassing. Disfunction of public schools is perpetually shielded by excuses such as lack of money. Language teachers are very inadequate more often than not. Instead of focusing on knocking charter schools, it would make more sense to compare charter, public and private schools, one has to brace oneself for the findings.
1
Of course they outperform the public schools
Public schools accept ALL children (including those with special needs, and the state requires these learning disabled kids to take the standardized tests that gauge performance).
Charter School parents, on average, are engaged and concerned about their children's education compared to many parents in the public system who are not.
Public schools accept ALL children (including those with special needs, and the state requires these learning disabled kids to take the standardized tests that gauge performance).
Charter School parents, on average, are engaged and concerned about their children's education compared to many parents in the public system who are not.
6
Congratulations to Eva Moskowitz, who earns $50 per student per year.
And congratulations on setting the clock back on education labor by 150 years by exploiting young teachers with a grueling schedule of 55+ hour work weeks, most of whom burn out by their third year. Is this how we want treat our labor force? Is this how YOU would want to be treated?
One more item: How many SA graduates are enrolled at the city's finest high schools: Stuyvesant and Bronx Science? Last I checked, it was zero.
And congratulations on setting the clock back on education labor by 150 years by exploiting young teachers with a grueling schedule of 55+ hour work weeks, most of whom burn out by their third year. Is this how we want treat our labor force? Is this how YOU would want to be treated?
One more item: How many SA graduates are enrolled at the city's finest high schools: Stuyvesant and Bronx Science? Last I checked, it was zero.
4
So because of this the program is a failure? These kids are learning so much more than their peers in public school. They can read! How many kids applied to the special HS in NYC?
As a parent whose child briefly attended a charter school in 2010 I personally found the system unnecessarily stressful. My child was deemed "slow" within the first month of the school year because she could not read and write in complete sentences in the first week of kindergarten. From the beginning there was a policy to single out kids who were perceived as not up to snuff and my daughter was completely miserable. She tried very hard and cried every night as she struggled through packets if homework that took upwards of 3-4 hours to complete, with my assistance. Finally, I removed her and put her in our local public school. Yes, they lacked the pedigree of Moskowitz's ivy league brigade of teachers but they cared just as much and tried just as hard, albeit with larger class sizes, less funding, and at times difficult to teach students. I am a high achiever (and minority from a poor neighborhood in the south Bronx) and college graduate with honors who always exceled academically. I have a thriving career and a small business and IMO if these hacks think high grades on tests automatically equates to success they have a long way to go to fix out broken education system. There aren't too many multiple choice or fill in the blank scenarios in the real world. Whatever happened to cultivating critical thinking, a love for learning, and helping those who are behind rather than berate them. This seems like a sink or swim policy.
16
It's probably designed to get those kids and parents who don't respond to their system of militarization to leave, thereby self-selecting mostly the low creativity drones who respond well to their approach.
2
And good riddance to the students who are dragging the schools' "success rate" down.
"test prep academy" is rather a conditioning than an educational environment...there is certainly no problem with structure and consistency as environment for learning, however the range of aptitude and potential and the methods of nourishing them are many according to their differences in each child...in this light it may be that self expressive efforts such as arts and languages, social interactions, etc. are more conducive than yes/no testing to the development of an enthusiasm for learning within a supportive (as opposed to competitive) structure, which enthusiasm makes a firm and lasting matrix for learning, (a more educable student, if you will), no matter the subject...for at least one educator, more mindful and respectful approaches (such as the well documented effort in regio emilia, italy) that recognize the voices of children as collaborative, offer contrast worth consideration.
1
I went through 12 years of school just like this - it was called Catholic school. I remember sitting with my hands folded, and the children who wet their pants in class. I remember the itchy uniforms. We lined up - silently- to go to the bathroom, to go to recess, to go to the water fountain. The nuns were always there, lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce. They humiliated students in front of the class if they did not do well. They lived there, it was their life, the only thing they lived for. I was in a constant state of fear. I did very well on the SATs, and when I got to college ...well, it was the 60's what can I say?
2
The comments are as interesting as the article, with public school teachers and their sympathizers asking -- "who are you going to believe, us, or these lying test scores?" For me, I think the test scores tell the objective truth of the matter, while the public school teachers are self interested and self serving in their desire to maintain the horrible status quo that they and their union created. They and DeBlasio can cluck all they want, but this is nothing but a battle between the haves -- public school teachers with cushy work rules and salaries -- and the have nots -- the kids whose education is too commonly traded off for the benefit of politically powerful teachers. I know which side I'm on.
3
Interesting.
You know what the test scores for entry into competitive NYC high schools have said? That is to say, do you know what happens when SA students take tests that SA staff members don't have the opportunity to cheat on?
Those test scores don't paint a good picture of SA. NONE of the kids passed.
You know what the test scores for entry into competitive NYC high schools have said? That is to say, do you know what happens when SA students take tests that SA staff members don't have the opportunity to cheat on?
Those test scores don't paint a good picture of SA. NONE of the kids passed.
2
It takes a certain gullible person to believe that a school that loses up to 50% of its at-risk students and achieves better test scores is doing anything other than weeding out the slowest learners and providing the remaining students with the best education its millions in donations can buy.
It takes a certain gullible person to believe that other CHARTER schools -- who don't use union teachers -- are somehow not copying this miraculous system. It takes a certain gullible person not to understand that some charter schools want to educate ALL students, not just the ones who are cheapest to educate.
It takes a certain gullible person to believe that the reason Success Academy doesn't use these humiliating tactics on affluent students (whose parents are college educated) is because only low-income students need them. And that the purpose of these tactics is not to get rid of low-scoring students.
Thank you, Mak, for showing us how easy it is to believe that you judge a school on the end product, and not the fact that a huge number of the at-risk students aren't allowed to remain. Are you saying that all schools should do this? And what happens to all the students who are counseled out?
It takes a certain gullible person to believe that other CHARTER schools -- who don't use union teachers -- are somehow not copying this miraculous system. It takes a certain gullible person not to understand that some charter schools want to educate ALL students, not just the ones who are cheapest to educate.
It takes a certain gullible person to believe that the reason Success Academy doesn't use these humiliating tactics on affluent students (whose parents are college educated) is because only low-income students need them. And that the purpose of these tactics is not to get rid of low-scoring students.
Thank you, Mak, for showing us how easy it is to believe that you judge a school on the end product, and not the fact that a huge number of the at-risk students aren't allowed to remain. Are you saying that all schools should do this? And what happens to all the students who are counseled out?
2
I am that suburban parent who paid for private school for my children. Yes, at this point, colleges care about the test scores and grades! The hoops these kids are going through are exactly what our children did and one is still doing as a sophomore. Wish that all kids had this opportunity.
2
Success Academy methods have produced success in a few short years and what's wrong with that? They have the same environment as Catholic schools--uniforms, structure and an emphasis on
on results. The Catholic schools have a 95% college acceptance rate. In addition, a recent Times article pointed out that teachers in public schools have about three minutes to meet with each parent but the parents in underachieving schools rarely show up for any meeting. Yet Success Academy teachers can be in constant touch with caregivers.
on results. The Catholic schools have a 95% college acceptance rate. In addition, a recent Times article pointed out that teachers in public schools have about three minutes to meet with each parent but the parents in underachieving schools rarely show up for any meeting. Yet Success Academy teachers can be in constant touch with caregivers.
2
All children can learn and will learn to the utmost of their ability given the right environment. While this environment sounds tough, it doesn't sound abusive, and I assure you that many of us who grew up in the '50s endured similar classroom practices and turned out just fine. NOT giving these kids the same opportunities that their more fortunate peers have is criminal. I say let there be more school designed on this model and we will be wasting fewer of our precious tax dollars on baby sitting unruly children for twelve years.
2
Since when did creativity not require discipline? I am impressed by the parental involvement required. Not all students are college material. I would like to see a Success Academy vocational high school that taught culinary arts, auto mechanic, cabinetry etc. so that students were actually employable upon graduation. Such a program is thriving at Newton High School alongside their extraordinary and rigorous academic program. (Newton MA) The one thing I find so distasteful and bothersome is the hedge fund corporate involvement. Who by the way receive astounding and outsized tax deductions thanks to Bill Clinton. Whenever Wall Street is involved the quality and intention of the service is ultimately degraded by the bottom line and/or the branding required by corporate sponsors whereby being consumers is equated with success. One only has to look at the ungodly mess that Wall Street made of health insurance. Also why aren't the teachers paid more? In Finland where the educational system is the international gold standard, teachers are paid comparable salaries to other professionals. Unfortunately Mr Bloomberg did not consider teaching a profession as evidenced by his hiring a lawyer as the Chancellor. It seems Success Academy has a lot to offer but is in need of some serious rethinking and fine tuning of their treatment of teachers and classroom procedure. The real proof of their success will be how many of their students who enter college graduate in 4 years.
1
It wasn't Wall Street that made the health care mess. Teachers are paid very well and many have very good benefits. When colleges of education become rigorous and attendees are in the top 25% of the class instead of the bottom, then teachers will get more respect. We spend more per pupil in this country then any other industrialized nation and what do we get for it. Poor kids!
Thanks to the reporters and editors that provided this thorough and in-depth look at Success Academy charter schools.
I cringe saying this. What I describe was neither as common nor as prevalent as most people believe. The behaviors and policies in Success Academy schools are eerily similar to a few parochial schools of 50 years ago. I wrote to Cardinal Dolan that I was upset that he had supported school choice. He helped to undermine many Catholic schools. Most parents choose Catholic schools less for religion and more for their behavioral, disciplinary and safety policies. Moskowitz and a few other charters understand that significant numbers of parents want safe, secure, and rigid educational settings for their children, and schools focused more on test results than on a broadened educational experience. They know that many parents cannot afford parochial school tuition.
I have written numerous letters to editors that charters are cultural-socio-economic segregationists. They take and keep only those children whose parents fit their values. They do it subtly to be sure, but they do it. Not all charters are of this ilk, but too many are.
Is this what we as a society want our tax dollars to pay for? Are these truly PUBLIC schools for all children? As a retired teacher, as a retired union member, as a citizen, I find the type of charters such as Success Academy antithetical to a democratic and pluralistic society. Obviously and sadly not all citizens think like I do.
I cringe saying this. What I describe was neither as common nor as prevalent as most people believe. The behaviors and policies in Success Academy schools are eerily similar to a few parochial schools of 50 years ago. I wrote to Cardinal Dolan that I was upset that he had supported school choice. He helped to undermine many Catholic schools. Most parents choose Catholic schools less for religion and more for their behavioral, disciplinary and safety policies. Moskowitz and a few other charters understand that significant numbers of parents want safe, secure, and rigid educational settings for their children, and schools focused more on test results than on a broadened educational experience. They know that many parents cannot afford parochial school tuition.
I have written numerous letters to editors that charters are cultural-socio-economic segregationists. They take and keep only those children whose parents fit their values. They do it subtly to be sure, but they do it. Not all charters are of this ilk, but too many are.
Is this what we as a society want our tax dollars to pay for? Are these truly PUBLIC schools for all children? As a retired teacher, as a retired union member, as a citizen, I find the type of charters such as Success Academy antithetical to a democratic and pluralistic society. Obviously and sadly not all citizens think like I do.
2
How can a citizen be a member of a democracy if they are functionally illiterate?
Rigor, discipline and weeding out the troublemakers is a benefit to the kids who want to learn. Problem is, disproportionate resources in public schools have to be used on the students with the least interest and aptitude. Let parents- and students- vote with their feet and seek out charter schools, it is better than forcing them to accept mediocrity and watch the lowest common denominator rule.
2
Pure and simple, this is teaching to the test, but for what purpose. It won't make children better students or, ultimately, better adults. What needs to happen is for America to wake up to the fact that education per se is not valued. Because education is under-valued, it is criminally underfunded by a Congress that doesn't get it. Np wonder the country is a dismal performer against other countries. Until this changes, charter schools and other for-profit so-called eductional establishments will be allowed to turn out their robotic students.
1
How do you know what will happen to these students? We know what would happen to them if they didn't get in. Abysmal test scores, which mean the kids are learning nothing. If these test scores were in Westchester there would be a riot, but it's OK for poor kids?
1
Ms. Taylor, how come you didn't include photos of the Traditional Public School classrooms comparing and contrasting/illustrating "separate and unequal?" For every dollar Success Academy received - supposedly - from NY State, each co-located Traditional Public School was to receive equal funding/upgrading/improvements...that never materialized. As a former advocate for "failing" schools in NYC, I logged many hours inside PS/MS 149 in Harlem (co-located with SA) and was horrified by what 149 lacked that SA didn't.
I left the work I loved for one reason: no one believed me. What I witnessed with my own eyes at Wadleigh, 149, the HS for Graphic Communication Arts, etc. was apartheid; this article is not a "rare" look at all.
I left the work I loved for one reason: no one believed me. What I witnessed with my own eyes at Wadleigh, 149, the HS for Graphic Communication Arts, etc. was apartheid; this article is not a "rare" look at all.
5
Where does the money go in the public school system? Have you ever followed the money? Success academy receives money from outside donations.
I think there is a fine line between discipline and abuse in some instances here, and children wetting themselves during a stupid test (yes, a stupid test) means the system must be overhauled. With a 50% turnover rate for teachers, it seems like pressure brings short-term results like high test scores. And the high teacher turnover also speaks poorly about how much pressure the children must feel but who are so eager to succeed but desperate to please. Psychologically, it's a bit of a work camp, don't you think?
If I were to fund and administrate a chain of schools, the entire curriculum would be centered around music, dance and art: things that connect people to one another and the foundation of their learning is centered in creativity, not rote learning and shaming children for a score stupid test, yes, a stupid test.
And I would call the school "Happiness and Serenity Academy". What a tacky name for a school, "Success". Absolute materialism.
If I were to fund and administrate a chain of schools, the entire curriculum would be centered around music, dance and art: things that connect people to one another and the foundation of their learning is centered in creativity, not rote learning and shaming children for a score stupid test, yes, a stupid test.
And I would call the school "Happiness and Serenity Academy". What a tacky name for a school, "Success". Absolute materialism.
2
Lessons learned: 1) The students (and teachers) who can tolerate the humiliation at Success Academy Charter Schools end up with higher test scores. The heck with everyone else.
2) Teach to the tests and nothing but the tests. It doesn't matter what the tests measure, so long as the students get high scores. The heck with learning everything else.
Unanswered questions: 1) if these children are getting such a great education, why haven't any of them been able to gain admission to the city's elite public high schools?
2) If this is such an effective approach, why is it not employed by the schools (public and private) that produce large numbers of graduates who go on to study at the nation's top colleges and universities? Would Ms. Moskowitz want her own children to be treated this way?
2) Teach to the tests and nothing but the tests. It doesn't matter what the tests measure, so long as the students get high scores. The heck with learning everything else.
Unanswered questions: 1) if these children are getting such a great education, why haven't any of them been able to gain admission to the city's elite public high schools?
2) If this is such an effective approach, why is it not employed by the schools (public and private) that produce large numbers of graduates who go on to study at the nation's top colleges and universities? Would Ms. Moskowitz want her own children to be treated this way?
4
Would you want your own children in the public schools where these kids come from?
Yet another experiment on the souls abd spirits of Black and Brown students trapped in poor economic venues.
The marker from my optics to determine the meriye of a school is do the educators and administrative staff have their children enrolled in these factories/ schools .
We have failed miserably in educating the underclass today it is the factory template of Sucess Charter tomorrow another commodity driven experiment will be highlited by the media .
The marker from my optics to determine the meriye of a school is do the educators and administrative staff have their children enrolled in these factories/ schools .
We have failed miserably in educating the underclass today it is the factory template of Sucess Charter tomorrow another commodity driven experiment will be highlited by the media .
3
Accountability for ones actions being instilled in these kids at an early age. Be it on study habits, respect for themselves , their classmates or their class environment.
These are all traits that will spell future success in life for these children and sadly traits that are no longer emphasized in public schools.
These are all traits that will spell future success in life for these children and sadly traits that are no longer emphasized in public schools.
I have read many of these comments. I hate to stereotype but they seem to be predominantly from well educated and motivated people who did not face the educational dilemma faced by minority group parents in districts will public schools replete with failing programs. We should turn the whole system over to Ruth ASAP. I'll take tough discipline and high test scoring anytime over the tragic alternative in regular PSs because I know most kids will eventually have much better life outcomes. This drastic approach is mandatory. Good we'll balanced article NYT!
3
This article isn't truthful! The article also fails to say that the teachers at SA are as much loving as they're strict, they feel really proud when a kid is improving and give them hugs and time from their lunch to play basketball with the kid as a reward, they care a lot as human beings about the kids!
Kids are getting better education than at their neighborhood schools. They come from far way for a better chance. It isn't perfect but it works.
Kids are getting better education than at their neighborhood schools. They come from far way for a better chance. It isn't perfect but it works.
2
All I see is teachers who work 24/7 slave labor. This is only for those out of college with no personal life. Your life belongs to Ms Moskowitz, your future retirement, none will last that long, managed by Hedge Fund managers Hedge fund managers who will pull out when a recession hits. Kids who don't perform again and again will be pushed out of school back to public schools. Schools who don't get those extra funds from those greedy Hedge fund managers who steal it from their customers. MIddle class and wealthy parents will take their kids out of public schools and place them in private schools, no out of choice (lets face it Universities are very expensive now they have to also pay for private schools?) but because money was taken away form public schools. ANy one with a vision can see where this is going. Already where my grandchildren are going they have to stop selective classes and place all kids together, the fast learning and the slow learning. This is all to force those who can will eventually send their kids to private school, even though hard for many parents who already pay a lot of money for rent, condos, co-ops. Can no one see where this is going?
1
This sounds like hysterical agitprop.
I know teachers who lost many of their friends when they found themselves correcting papers evenings and weekends instead of gadding around with those who chose other occupations after college.
They stuck with teaching because they loved it. Kids are such unpredictable "products"; it's impossible to be bored. You can teach the same book dozens of times and it'll always be different because the students are different and bring different points of view to their reading.
When teachers say, "I can't stand teaching such-and-such book too often," it's probably because they're not doing what they should be doing: listening to what the kids have to say.
Summers are nice too.
They stuck with teaching because they loved it. Kids are such unpredictable "products"; it's impossible to be bored. You can teach the same book dozens of times and it'll always be different because the students are different and bring different points of view to their reading.
When teachers say, "I can't stand teaching such-and-such book too often," it's probably because they're not doing what they should be doing: listening to what the kids have to say.
Summers are nice too.
Cherry pick the best students out of a larger pool. That means parents more invested in their child's success that they took the time and effort to apply. Then send them to cram school for testing techniques and information. Voila - why wouldn't they do better?
I wonder how many special needs students Success takes in? How many students who have failed a grade or two? It would be interesting to see some comparative data with the public system around them.
I wonder how many special needs students Success takes in? How many students who have failed a grade or two? It would be interesting to see some comparative data with the public system around them.
2
I'm surprised by the negativity. Students and parents aren't forced to go to these charter schools, they choose to attend. Middle and Upper Middle class parents and students have educational choices. They can move to a different district, supplement education with tutors and outside activities, or pay for private schools. Lower income students don't have those same choices. Why take away this choice that parents are overwhelmingly saying is better than the alternative? It seems patriarchal and condescending to try to shut these schools down and tell these students this isn't a good option. If it isn't working or desired, enrollment will drop, and the schools will close.
3
bravo AR Clayboy (below). it seems to me that the success academies are not just teaching kids to take tests; they are teaching them lessons in how to conduct themselves in a way that will help them succeed in the world at large, a world in which their behavior and performance is important and where their backgrounds are not a reason to overlook their lack of skills. they are also teaching them that they are worth caring about but that they have to work, too.
the schools are not there just to provide a sinecure for people who have a degree that allows them to call themselves "teachers." how many teachers did well on standardized tests as they came through school? how many of them are good at reading or speaking the language or, very importantly in this global world, doing math? how many of them got "life experience credits" rather than math/science/reading comprehension credits in college.
finally, i can't help feeling that being able to pass a standardized math test means you can do some math, which is much better than being able to do little or no math at all and being pushed on to the next grade because nobody cares about your future.
i recommend a 2005 documentary made about a program in the baltimore school system called "the boys of baraka." the many at risk children in our city deserve a tough program to try to save their futures and this requires a environment with standards and expectations suited to the world as it is.
the schools are not there just to provide a sinecure for people who have a degree that allows them to call themselves "teachers." how many teachers did well on standardized tests as they came through school? how many of them are good at reading or speaking the language or, very importantly in this global world, doing math? how many of them got "life experience credits" rather than math/science/reading comprehension credits in college.
finally, i can't help feeling that being able to pass a standardized math test means you can do some math, which is much better than being able to do little or no math at all and being pushed on to the next grade because nobody cares about your future.
i recommend a 2005 documentary made about a program in the baltimore school system called "the boys of baraka." the many at risk children in our city deserve a tough program to try to save their futures and this requires a environment with standards and expectations suited to the world as it is.
1
What all schools should be for, learning, not pampering. The proof is in the pudding. Kudos to the unnamed 4th grader who got the 90. He SHOULD be named and acknowledged for his achievements, the same as he was exposed for his failures. It's called "Rewarding."
2
You mean, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
My children who are in a British international school in Malaysia recently had a Victorian Day where everyone got dressed up in Victorian clothes and their teachers pretended for day to be authoritarian Victorian teachers. My children's description of their day (which they hated) sounded remarkably like the description of this school. The teachers also told me that they found it very hard to stay in character and order the children to do as they were told. I have very little idea what the American public school system is like (and I cannot imagine children in a school bringing razor blades to class) but so very glad that European schools are not like this.
2
A key aspect of the ability to obtain high results at Success charters is their ability to suspend out those who do not comply and obey. The suspensions fall most heavily on boys, especially African American ones. This is a civil rights issue that needs to be addressed.
Why do you expect that? I think it's sad that you don't think that requiring students follow a behavior standard is important to growing up successfully, and that somehow it's a civil rights matter if African Americans are expected to adhere to such standards. Perhaps it's a civil rights issue if they aren't expected to live up to behavior standards in schools.
Like everything else in the US lately, Success Academy is an extreme reaction to the extreme problems of our public education system. We need to move our massive, bureaucratic and monolithic city public schools to a reasonable and responsive mode of operation. This entails more teacher support, parental involvement, student discipline and loosening of absurdly protective, costly and inefficient union rules. Our inability to do this politically, has opened the door for Success Academy.
I only find fault with the bathroom problems, the rest of the school's efforts to restore a safe learning environment, I applaud. Young children absolutely need structure, knowledge of what is expected of them, teachers who love their job and receive respect from the students and Principal. It's great that she keeps an eye on the teachers too. As far as the turnover rate goes, I would guess the majority weren't up to the work that was demanded of them.
School was never meant to be a party or a baby sitter, it is an institution that should be devoted to providing each child with an education and the social skills to facilitate success in their future. Sounds to me like the lady has the right ideas.
School was never meant to be a party or a baby sitter, it is an institution that should be devoted to providing each child with an education and the social skills to facilitate success in their future. Sounds to me like the lady has the right ideas.
3
Amazing. Kids coming out of the worst kind of poverty and parenting can not only survive, but thrive!!
Figures the NEA and Democrats would be against it.
Figures the NEA and Democrats would be against it.
1
As a former teacher I have worked in different socio economic settings.
In the 60's I taught at an all black school in Columbia SC.... "Integrating" it as the only Caucasian In the school...... Those children were dirt poor and were irredeemably behind by any metric. Many could not read in 4th grade. Honestly it was impossible with no resources to ever catch up 30 kids who never got breakfast and didn't come because the didn't have shoes.
I also taught in one of the richest schools in the U.S...
Long story short.
This article made the Success model seem harsh and 'teaching to the test'
Perhaps
but children with life advantages,
whatever color they might be, have been taught the rules of the games from the get go. Success Academy is teaching these children how to play the game.
As a liberal progressive I think it is tough but vital education.
The 'Rudy' the 'Blind Side' effort.
In the 60's I taught at an all black school in Columbia SC.... "Integrating" it as the only Caucasian In the school...... Those children were dirt poor and were irredeemably behind by any metric. Many could not read in 4th grade. Honestly it was impossible with no resources to ever catch up 30 kids who never got breakfast and didn't come because the didn't have shoes.
I also taught in one of the richest schools in the U.S...
Long story short.
This article made the Success model seem harsh and 'teaching to the test'
Perhaps
but children with life advantages,
whatever color they might be, have been taught the rules of the games from the get go. Success Academy is teaching these children how to play the game.
As a liberal progressive I think it is tough but vital education.
The 'Rudy' the 'Blind Side' effort.
1
This seems like an unnecessarily cruel environment. If we can't do better than this there is something wrong. To humiliate a child by posting their failing grade is just wrong.
4
I'm not sure what all the kerfuffle is here. Long hours? Try being a kid in France - they go to school from 8 to 5. Testing? Welcome to our world. If everyone is doing it then you may as well hit it out of the park. Suspending disruptive kids? How is this a bad thing? It sounds like they are doing their best to encourage parent involvement (and succeeding). Punitive measures? Good lord, try going to Catholic school. I went to an all-girls school and got a fantastic education while also, yes, learning a healthy fear of nuns and their approbation.
I've never been a fan of the charter school idea, but if it actually seems to be working then great. I'm willing to change my mind in the presence of fact.
I've never been a fan of the charter school idea, but if it actually seems to be working then great. I'm willing to change my mind in the presence of fact.
2
"Ms. Moskowitz and a number of her teachers saw the network’s exacting approach in a different way: as putting their students on the same college track as children in wealthier neighborhoods who had better schools and money for extra help. Success students are generally barred from the city’s best elementary schools because they do not live in those schools’ zones."
45 years of teaching and supervising teachers leads me to the very "unpleasant truth" of the predictability of student success by family income, race, or ethnicity in public education.
Like it or not, the Student Success approach has cracked this insidious, inequitable situation, and its intractability to reform.
45 years of teaching and supervising teachers leads me to the very "unpleasant truth" of the predictability of student success by family income, race, or ethnicity in public education.
Like it or not, the Student Success approach has cracked this insidious, inequitable situation, and its intractability to reform.
2
@viable: The article sates that students who leave at fourth grade or later are not replaced, despite robust demand. This enforces reduced class size. And there are plenty of supplies, with the public money augmented with an unreported amount of private funding.
Yes, they have cracked the code for success found in wealthy suburban schools: smaller class sizes and greater per pupil expenditures. My kids went to supposedly high performing schools, and between the two of them, they took 13 AP classes in high school (one score of 3, four 4s and eight highest scores of 5), and they test prepped relentlessly, and for the six weeks of school after the test, they watched movies every day, which made me crazy. Testing is a zero sum game that assumes a finite level of knowledge can be attained and measured reliably, when learning is open ended and infinite.
Do the MCATS test for the skills needed to be a superior doctor? No, they select for the ability to regurgitate basic science knowledge. Think about THAT...
Yes, they have cracked the code for success found in wealthy suburban schools: smaller class sizes and greater per pupil expenditures. My kids went to supposedly high performing schools, and between the two of them, they took 13 AP classes in high school (one score of 3, four 4s and eight highest scores of 5), and they test prepped relentlessly, and for the six weeks of school after the test, they watched movies every day, which made me crazy. Testing is a zero sum game that assumes a finite level of knowledge can be attained and measured reliably, when learning is open ended and infinite.
Do the MCATS test for the skills needed to be a superior doctor? No, they select for the ability to regurgitate basic science knowledge. Think about THAT...
2
It's clear that Success is a success, though not unalloyed. There are trade-offs, but the bottom line is that it takes hard work, discipline, drills and boring routine to succeed. Public schools don't make the commitment; it's sink or swim there, but also mainly "drift."
The article convinced me more than ever that if New York (or other big cities) is to have a future, we must break the unions' stranglehold on public schools. The unions are failing the children, but continue to prevail because they have bought municipal officials through political contributions and other alliances. The unions must be smashed. The public schools may have succeeded decades ago, but now the only thing they succeed at is failure.
The article convinced me more than ever that if New York (or other big cities) is to have a future, we must break the unions' stranglehold on public schools. The unions are failing the children, but continue to prevail because they have bought municipal officials through political contributions and other alliances. The unions must be smashed. The public schools may have succeeded decades ago, but now the only thing they succeed at is failure.
4
Per Daily News (Gonzales, June 18, 2014), Success Academy 1 celebrated its first 8th grade graduating class last year. The students were in the top 1% in NYS Math and in the top 5% in NYS ELA. Yet not one of these students passed the admissions tests for NYC's top specialized high schools. This obsession with scoring high on state tests is not only soul crushing, but also appears to be of no real benefit if it doesn't even transfer to other tests. And if that isn't worrisome enough, the cohort started with 73 children and ended with only 32. SA and many other charter schools relentlessly purge their rosters of difficult (non-compliant or hard-to-teach) students by putting pressure on families. So we are actually not talking about a high pass rate when this is factored in. Those ejected students end up back in the district public schools. A close reading of data shows that these district schools are NOT composed of comparable demographics. Besides the well known data showing fewer ELL and special education students -- and less serious disabilities amongst special education students -- know also that reduced and free lunch are conflated in most statistics, but there is a huge achievement gap between free lunch and reduced lunch. Charter schools enroll more reduced lunch students than free lunch children as compared to their district school neighbors. There is something very wrong here. This is not a replicable model of quality education by any reasonable standard
3
It's hard for students to learn if they are not in an environment where behavior standards are enforced. Why not have a school for gifted economically challenged students? Maybe they're gifted in working hard, learning to the test, or in other ways, but they are committed to their own success and that has to be a good opportunity. Not all economically challenged students will be up for that, but don't deny those who are because the whole group isn't.
This discredits my belief that kids deprived of certain experiences during the years before Kindergarten are irremediably impaired. (For examole I'm assuming that most of these kids were not exposed to the range of words that kids in Great Neck grew up hearing.)
I can appreciate a school with focus on greater discipline and explicitly holding students accountable. But Success Academy sounds like a Communist indoctrination camp, complete with public shaming, confrontation, punishment and excessive top-down control. Success Academy is pushing them to love good test scores and teacher praise, and that's not the same as pushing them to love knowledge, learning or self-growth.
It may be that poorer children with a lack of discipline and insufficient emphasis on education at home need more control. But Success sounds like a sick place, and Eva Moskowitz seems like a grandstanding, uncaring control-freak. It's not surprising that so many teachers leave Success because the network doesn't seem to care about students as people. For the teachers who buy into Success's dogma, the kids are just data points that have to always improve--not for their own sake but for the sake of the Academy's reputation.
There has to be a better way than Success's inhumane and ruthless approach. Charles Dickens would be enraged to find that such schools still exist.
It may be that poorer children with a lack of discipline and insufficient emphasis on education at home need more control. But Success sounds like a sick place, and Eva Moskowitz seems like a grandstanding, uncaring control-freak. It's not surprising that so many teachers leave Success because the network doesn't seem to care about students as people. For the teachers who buy into Success's dogma, the kids are just data points that have to always improve--not for their own sake but for the sake of the Academy's reputation.
There has to be a better way than Success's inhumane and ruthless approach. Charles Dickens would be enraged to find that such schools still exist.
1
I cannot countenance punishing students on a daily basis for poor performance. That is beyond the pale. how about a system of incentives for both students and teachers no punishments just rewards for achievement?
1
It is a competitive world out there and getting more competitive every day.
What might have worked when America was on the top of the world and you
were pretty much guaranteed a job out of college no matter you major
is no longer true.
However,
Children not be given extra time after leaving class to go to the Bathroom
is barbaric. The State needs to change its policies.
Frankly some of the comments by the supervisors of the Teachers sound
like Mao's dedicated followers in the Cultural Revolution of the late 60's -
"We must all learn to think rightly and not wrongly !!!"
Perhaps it would be better if students in grades 1, 2 and 3 were given
four years to build the foundations of their studies.
After all graduating from College at age 21/22/23
is not nearly as important as graduating from College and developing the
self-confidence/skills that will allow you to eventually teach yourself.
What might have worked when America was on the top of the world and you
were pretty much guaranteed a job out of college no matter you major
is no longer true.
However,
Children not be given extra time after leaving class to go to the Bathroom
is barbaric. The State needs to change its policies.
Frankly some of the comments by the supervisors of the Teachers sound
like Mao's dedicated followers in the Cultural Revolution of the late 60's -
"We must all learn to think rightly and not wrongly !!!"
Perhaps it would be better if students in grades 1, 2 and 3 were given
four years to build the foundations of their studies.
After all graduating from College at age 21/22/23
is not nearly as important as graduating from College and developing the
self-confidence/skills that will allow you to eventually teach yourself.
1
Sounds like my strict Catholic school upbringing that served me well. Except the wholly unacceptable shaming of kids under 10. Also it wasn't all based on teaching to a test.
I realize there have to be tests, but where are these kids going to learn the love of reading? or the elation of solving a complex math problem on their own w/o being so stressed by their test strategy?
Something's being lost here, the humanity and spark of light a teacher brings, when it's a precision drill with candy and prizes.
Public schools are taking all comers, including the undesirables. I don't know the answer and parts of this may be it, but not the whole package.
I realize there have to be tests, but where are these kids going to learn the love of reading? or the elation of solving a complex math problem on their own w/o being so stressed by their test strategy?
Something's being lost here, the humanity and spark of light a teacher brings, when it's a precision drill with candy and prizes.
Public schools are taking all comers, including the undesirables. I don't know the answer and parts of this may be it, but not the whole package.
1
Kids learn the love of reading and the thrill of solving a problem on their own. But you have to know how to read and some other basic skills to get to that - not all kids will get there no matter what you do. So be happy with what you can get. These kids probably have childhood experiences that are far from ideal as well - more like Charles Dickens than Jane Austin.
I'm curious is where they got their method from and who designs the curriculum and discipline practice. Also, how are the teachers compensated for those 11hour days.The method sounds like a cram school in China but have no idea from the article what the children are actually learning outside of test prep. What books are they reading, do they have to adopt the common core? With the high test scores, what could the publics be adapting from them? Maybe the structure works for some kids but why push it to such extremes? Out here the new approach to discipline is restorative practices, but not sure yet how it is implemented. A big takeaway from this is that they have a consistent approach across the board, for good and bad. At our public schools here, the schools range from excellent to dismal, but then break it down by race and class and that accounts for a lot. Maybe this approach will work at some schools but I haven't heard of any top tier private schools that use this approach, maybe military schools. I'm not ready to praise or condemn this approach because there is a lot to learn from it, but could this be applied to the entire school system? Not sure.
Giving candy, (not healthy - a precursor to obesity, and tooth decay, etc. and a cause of hyperactivity in some kids) for reward makes me suspicious. I am not so sure pressuring these kids to success will be permanent, or even lead to success in the real world. Kids should WANT to succeed and learn without the prison-type "incentives." Teachers who can do this are hard to find, but, while I substituted at teaching, I have seen the worst ghetto kids behave well and learn with that kind of teacher, and they didn't need the threat of punishment or humiliation to set those kids straight. They just had the savoir faire that is hard to find.
Before we go gaga for the Success method, we should do a ten year follow up and see if they are any more successful than ordinary school kids, in the public schools, in life, in the long run.
You can train a dog with positive reinforcement, or you can use the threat of punishment. Both methods will have similar results, but which dog is more likely to take off the first chance it has for freedom?
Some of these kids will be lost when they
Before we go gaga for the Success method, we should do a ten year follow up and see if they are any more successful than ordinary school kids, in the public schools, in life, in the long run.
You can train a dog with positive reinforcement, or you can use the threat of punishment. Both methods will have similar results, but which dog is more likely to take off the first chance it has for freedom?
Some of these kids will be lost when they
2
Ask Ben Carson what worked for him.
Republicans live in a world of winners and losers - and be damned for the losers, they brought it upon themselves. This is the most sincere form of blinding Pride, the worst of all sins.
Democrats and progressives believe we live in a world community and we all need to help each other survive and prosper.
What are kids at the so-called Success school kids being taught about how to view our global, national, and local community brothers and sisters in humanity?
Or are they being taught Social Darwinism?
Democrats and progressives believe we live in a world community and we all need to help each other survive and prosper.
What are kids at the so-called Success school kids being taught about how to view our global, national, and local community brothers and sisters in humanity?
Or are they being taught Social Darwinism?
2
It would seem a waste of time to comment when there are already almost 1300 comments, but nowhere did I notice any attempt to instill a love of learning, something that will accompany the students for the rest of their lives.
Good work habits and order are nice and so are succeeding at tests, but somewhere the student should be taught to understand that there is beauty in knowledge. All knowledge.
Drill sergeant teachers are not the best candidates for this. To instill love a teacher must love the subject as well as the students. Fear does not work.
Good work habits and order are nice and so are succeeding at tests, but somewhere the student should be taught to understand that there is beauty in knowledge. All knowledge.
Drill sergeant teachers are not the best candidates for this. To instill love a teacher must love the subject as well as the students. Fear does not work.
3
I find any case where elementary school students are kept from freely accessing restrooms (or discouraged) to be a human rights issue. Kids this age are vulnerable and having them hold it can cause serious medical problems. I see the benefits of higher expectations at play, but the degradation and humiliation have got to go!
1
I like the idea of abundant supplies and principals freed from administrivia so that they can visit classrooms and be true instructional leaders; can we get that in all city public schools? I'm sure the teachers and principals in those schools would love it.
I'm sure that the students at Success schools are benefiting in some ways, and I applaud the dedication of their teachers (though I think these young kids will find the hours unsustainable once they start having families, and will someday look back with slight horror at the robotic way they treated students). The problem here is that these students are being trained for one thing and one thing only, and that is to score high on tests, tests which are of questionable validity. How will these students fare as they get older and find themselves in academic, personal, and professional situations where they have to actually think for themselves? I don't have high hopes, but by then Eva will be making seven figures, so she can keep smiling.
I'm sure that the students at Success schools are benefiting in some ways, and I applaud the dedication of their teachers (though I think these young kids will find the hours unsustainable once they start having families, and will someday look back with slight horror at the robotic way they treated students). The problem here is that these students are being trained for one thing and one thing only, and that is to score high on tests, tests which are of questionable validity. How will these students fare as they get older and find themselves in academic, personal, and professional situations where they have to actually think for themselves? I don't have high hopes, but by then Eva will be making seven figures, so she can keep smiling.
2
I shudder at what passes for competence in our society when I read Carmen Fariña's utterly foolish comment:
“We would like to be at that percentage, but we keep all our kids from the day they walk into the building.”
She's implying that the SA's 96% pass rate on a math test compared to the colocated traditional public school's 4% pass rate was due to a greater attrition (through expulsion and voluntary withdrawal) at SA.
Assuming that the students who enter SA are randomly sampled from the same population of students who enter the public school, the only way that SA could move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate via attrition would be for SA to expel 96% of their students.
(The assumption that SA students and the PS students come from the same population is a strong assumption, since SA students' parents self-select by applying to SA in the first place.)
That Carmen Fariña did not immediately understand this before she even spoke illustrates the dangerous mathematical illiteracy which seems so prevalent among the educational establishment. She is functionally mathematically illiterate.
“We would like to be at that percentage, but we keep all our kids from the day they walk into the building.”
She's implying that the SA's 96% pass rate on a math test compared to the colocated traditional public school's 4% pass rate was due to a greater attrition (through expulsion and voluntary withdrawal) at SA.
Assuming that the students who enter SA are randomly sampled from the same population of students who enter the public school, the only way that SA could move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate via attrition would be for SA to expel 96% of their students.
(The assumption that SA students and the PS students come from the same population is a strong assumption, since SA students' parents self-select by applying to SA in the first place.)
That Carmen Fariña did not immediately understand this before she even spoke illustrates the dangerous mathematical illiteracy which seems so prevalent among the educational establishment. She is functionally mathematically illiterate.
2
@dab: You miss the point by a country mile. SA only takes students whose parents are motivated enough to enter the lottery. And, as the article says, at fourth grade or later, students who disappear are NOT replaced, enforcing a smaller class size, despite stated robust demand for seats in the schools. They say that students are "too far behind" to catch up with the program. The Public Schools can NOT simply refuse service to fourth graders who are already well behind.
SA only is interested in students whose parents buy into and support the program. Public Schools are legally *obligated* to take in students with indifferent or even abusive parents. SA has numbers of English Language learners and special needs students far below the level found in Public Schools. THIS is Farina's reference.
And SA uses its private funding to buy "preferred test prep materials" from Pearson, the for-profit that makes up the tests that are said to contain actual test questions and helps to game the system. The first class of SA students
failed to place even a single student in NYC's 8 elite high schools. This is based on a single test, one for which "preferred test prep materials" are NOT made available. And the lack of results in THAT venue is revealing, and raises a big red flag. If the students can't get into those 8 elite high schools, they won't be going to Dartmouth, either.
SA only is interested in students whose parents buy into and support the program. Public Schools are legally *obligated* to take in students with indifferent or even abusive parents. SA has numbers of English Language learners and special needs students far below the level found in Public Schools. THIS is Farina's reference.
And SA uses its private funding to buy "preferred test prep materials" from Pearson, the for-profit that makes up the tests that are said to contain actual test questions and helps to game the system. The first class of SA students
failed to place even a single student in NYC's 8 elite high schools. This is based on a single test, one for which "preferred test prep materials" are NOT made available. And the lack of results in THAT venue is revealing, and raises a big red flag. If the students can't get into those 8 elite high schools, they won't be going to Dartmouth, either.
1
As I mentioned in my comment, the assumption that SA's entering students are representative of the community at large is a strong assumption, since SA's students' parents self-select in apply to SA.
It should be noted that SA makes strong community outreach efforts to encourage enrollment.
The point of my comment, and which point seems to be beyond Carmen Fariña's understanding, is that you can't move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate without expelling 96% of your students. Carmen Fariña's was either insincere or foolish.
Finally, how many times in these pages have I heard educators complain about uninvolved parents? Yet, here are parents who *are* concerned, who *are* involved, and not we hear a different set of complaints.
These complaints, taken together, are beginning to convince me that the only way to rescue public education in this country is to expand the number of charter schools, schools which, nationally, deliver an equivalent education for $4000 less per student, on average.
It should be noted that SA makes strong community outreach efforts to encourage enrollment.
The point of my comment, and which point seems to be beyond Carmen Fariña's understanding, is that you can't move from a 4% pass rate to a 96% pass rate without expelling 96% of your students. Carmen Fariña's was either insincere or foolish.
Finally, how many times in these pages have I heard educators complain about uninvolved parents? Yet, here are parents who *are* concerned, who *are* involved, and not we hear a different set of complaints.
These complaints, taken together, are beginning to convince me that the only way to rescue public education in this country is to expand the number of charter schools, schools which, nationally, deliver an equivalent education for $4000 less per student, on average.
1
What about the teachers in public schools? Some of these poor teachers suffered years of bad education themselves, and ended up being lousy teachers. They need the union to stay employed. It's unfair to blame them for the bad education they received. It is racism and inequality to expect the public school teachers to perform better. The charter schools should be disbanded and all the kids should be sent back to public schools to bring fairness back to the treatment of teachers.
Here is the key phrase, which is "as reflected by the data".
So much of government avoids measuring its own outcomes. In the private sector, the 'data' is what drives any organization.
Opinions are just...opinions. What these kids needs are results.
I say bravo to this effort, and bravo to the people who are willing to stand up to teachers (unions) who for way, way too long have embraced excuses rather than results.
So much of government avoids measuring its own outcomes. In the private sector, the 'data' is what drives any organization.
Opinions are just...opinions. What these kids needs are results.
I say bravo to this effort, and bravo to the people who are willing to stand up to teachers (unions) who for way, way too long have embraced excuses rather than results.
1
I have been an educator in the New York City public school system for 11 years, and I am deeply disturbed by the methods Success Academy uses. Public shaming and bribery? Sure, the test scores are impressive, but the ends certainly don't justify the means here. A child should never wet their pants because they are discouraged from going to the bathroom. That's corporal punishment. And bribery? That's buying a student's grades. What's the end goal here? At some point, we have to look at the bigger picture and ask: What is the purpose of education?
6
Bravo! What Success is doing is the norm in Singapore, Shanghai, and other cities where students actually learn how to read, write and do arithmetic. Only mindless liberals who are all about underserved self-esteem - where students are given awards just for showing up - would criticize rigor and hard work.
1
It looks to me like South Korean educational system branched out in the NYC area!
2
So many of the comments in favor of Success Academy sound remarkably the same. I wouldn't be surprised if Eva Moskowitz sent out an email this afternoon telling parents of her students to post comments that include the words "thriving," "love of learning," and "can't wait to go to school."
4
Quote from the article: "To prepare for the reading tests, students spend up to 90 minutes each day working on “Close Reading Mastery” exercises, consisting of passages followed by multiple-choice questions."
Wahoooooooooooo! Sounds like some quality education there.
(I say as a teacher who eschews T/F and multiple choice.)
Wahoooooooooooo! Sounds like some quality education there.
(I say as a teacher who eschews T/F and multiple choice.)
6
A student at Wesleyan University wrote about her experience briefly working at the Achievement First charter schools.
http://wesleyanargus.com/2015/02/09/unchartered-territory-on-discipline/
http://wesleyanargus.com/2015/02/16/unchartered-territory-reassess-asses...
http://wesleyanargus.com/2015/02/09/unchartered-territory-on-discipline/
http://wesleyanargus.com/2015/02/16/unchartered-territory-reassess-asses...
Educational choice should be the civil rights cause of our time. We have failed generations of inner city kids, refusing to provide the skills they could have used to make better lives for themselves. The result is what we have now: High crime, levels of incarceration, welfare dependence handed down from generation to generation, ignorant kids who can't even read their drivers license. Lack of jobs, lack of opportunity, idle young adults turning to crime and wasting their potential.
Success Academy is a reaction to that. It is responsible, dedicated people saying enough! we've failed for too long. We owe it to kids to try something different. And so they have. Some will fare better than others. But buried beneath the concern trolling of this NYT article is real progress. Vast majorities reading and doing math at or above grade level compared to tiny minorities doing so in NYC public schools.
And so the hate comes, much of it from those affiliated with teachers unions, but also from arrogant progressives who see a Koch-monster under every rock. Mostly the hate is derived from the very fact that Ms. Moskowitz' schools appear to be succeeding. There is no greater repudiation of Randi Weingarten and Mike Mulgrew than that.
Success Academy is a reaction to that. It is responsible, dedicated people saying enough! we've failed for too long. We owe it to kids to try something different. And so they have. Some will fare better than others. But buried beneath the concern trolling of this NYT article is real progress. Vast majorities reading and doing math at or above grade level compared to tiny minorities doing so in NYC public schools.
And so the hate comes, much of it from those affiliated with teachers unions, but also from arrogant progressives who see a Koch-monster under every rock. Mostly the hate is derived from the very fact that Ms. Moskowitz' schools appear to be succeeding. There is no greater repudiation of Randi Weingarten and Mike Mulgrew than that.
3
“Ms. Vistocco, can you reset your carpet expectations?”
2
Are they also eating Soylent Green for lunch?
4
Yep, made from the students who are "counseled out."
2
The recurring argument that the charter school approach "kills" creativity befuddles me. It cannot be suggesting that all children grow up to found Apple or direct Broadway musicals. Then, it must be concerned with more day-to-day type of creativity that we unknowningly employ almost everyday, from building one's own canopy bed to opining one's political views with a satirical joke. In short, this type of creativity is more of a survival instinct than a special gift, and that is why everyone should learn to use it fully, not just next Steve Jobs or Andrew Lloyed Webber (as for THAT kind of creativity, it cannot be taught at school anyway). But even the banal type of creativity must be founded upon ability to focus. To solve issues creatively, one must first identify the issue and be prepared to think long and hard. It requires mental horsepower and resilience to continue tackling difficulties, rather than give up watch TV. All-cramming and no creative projects in school is certainly far from ideal world where all schools have enough money for all that. But providing a rigorous training of focus and discipline cannot be worse than no such training, even for creativity's sake. (As for the argument that cramming by default hinders creativity, I don't buy it. Where I grew up the charter school approach is the national norm, and we still have musicians, entrepreneurs, and a majority of funcitioning citizens who use creativity and in proportion to their line of work.)
3
As retired public high school teacher I pay attention to the atmosphere at a school. Look at the pictures of the children. No one is smiling and there is a look of fear in many of the faces which is perhaps the result of the humiliation dealt out by the teachers for any infraction of the rules. I certainly wouldn't put a child of mine in such a school. I see no evidence that there is any joy in learning.
4
Ms. Moskowitz is to be congratulated for giving these kids a wonderful gift, i.e. a future!
Plus, teaching to the test is not bad if the tests measure concepts that are important! Sure it's rigorous, but anything worth achieving in life is going to be just that. These kids are succeeding. The placebo is in the mainstream public school system which has a 4% pass rate!
Plus, teaching to the test is not bad if the tests measure concepts that are important! Sure it's rigorous, but anything worth achieving in life is going to be just that. These kids are succeeding. The placebo is in the mainstream public school system which has a 4% pass rate!
5
Here is the only stat you need: 100% of parents send their children to Success Academy by choice.
I'm a Success Academy parent and our school is nothing like the one portrayed. Why did the report chase down ex-employees rather than talk to scores of current ones? And what about parents voices?
This article was overly melodramatic, tabloid-y, to just attract attention. And it succeeded. None of it rings true to our community. If you are reading this and are curious about the school come by ANY Success Academy at 7:30 and chat with parents to get the scoop the NYT missed.
I'm a Success Academy parent and our school is nothing like the one portrayed. Why did the report chase down ex-employees rather than talk to scores of current ones? And what about parents voices?
This article was overly melodramatic, tabloid-y, to just attract attention. And it succeeded. None of it rings true to our community. If you are reading this and are curious about the school come by ANY Success Academy at 7:30 and chat with parents to get the scoop the NYT missed.
7
Here is the only stat that YOU should be citing -100% of parents get to KEEP their child in Success Academy, even if they struggle in their academic performance. Unfortunately, the record shows something very different - and there is a significant disparity in how at-risk students are treated and how the children of parents like CT and others posting here -- who are college educated and affluent -- fare there. Not surprisingly, CT and other affluent parents whose students learn quickly are happy because their kids would never be treated like the students in Success Academy Harlem 4. And many at-risk students simply disappear from Success Academy.
Why wouldn't an affluent parent want her child in one of the special Success Academy schools that is designed just for them? Those students get all the bells and whistles millions in donations can purchase, and their are never asked to subsidize their child's education with donations since the school apparently has money to burn. (Huge marketing and advertising budgets and money to hire coach buses to ship students to pro-charter rallies).
Even Eva Moskowitz understands that she needs more schools in wealthy District 2 than in very poor District 7 in the Bronx, because if she located too many Success Academy schools in District 7, she would actually have to educate MORE at-risk students and apparently she feels the ones on their massive wait list just aren't worth it. Much better to manufacture demand in Park Slope.
Why wouldn't an affluent parent want her child in one of the special Success Academy schools that is designed just for them? Those students get all the bells and whistles millions in donations can purchase, and their are never asked to subsidize their child's education with donations since the school apparently has money to burn. (Huge marketing and advertising budgets and money to hire coach buses to ship students to pro-charter rallies).
Even Eva Moskowitz understands that she needs more schools in wealthy District 2 than in very poor District 7 in the Bronx, because if she located too many Success Academy schools in District 7, she would actually have to educate MORE at-risk students and apparently she feels the ones on their massive wait list just aren't worth it. Much better to manufacture demand in Park Slope.
1
I wonder if these kids will be happy and contribute to a culture of understanding in their future... This whole thing just makes me remember that a lot of people view ideal society as one giant space race where the goal is to go to an amazing college, get a tech degree, and accelerate off the planet to avoid dealing with different learning or lifestyles. On the other hand, if culturally disadvantaged students can get on the same playing field as all the [white guys helping other white guys], maybe they can, in the future, play an important role in leveling the field in a way that speaks to their own experiences. It would be very interesting if someone conducted an investigation of the home lives/ learning styles of the students who left Success Academy versus those who stayed, in a way that could integrate long-term follow up.
1
This story reminds me of a NYTimes piece back in January about the Chinese Test Prep school where parents from rural China gives everything they have to provide their child with a good education. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/magazine/inside-a-chinese-test-prep-fa... The two schools systems documented similar teaching philosophies. As an individual who went through the Chinese school system first, then came to an American high school, what I saw was night and day. While in Chinese school, we were taught to memorized the multiplication table. In the American school, I've tutored high school students who cannot do simple multiplication in their head. Having that solid math foundation from China, I was able to advance in mathematics throughout high school. In American high school, I was able to join after school program working along side professional engineers. This is an opportunity that even the most privileged Chinese student cannot come by. Regardless of which country I was in, it was the deep importance of education that was ingrained in me since childhood. As a high school student, I worked hard for good grades. It allowed me to attend a world-class university that really challenged me mentally, and planted in me the deep love for learning. I hope that the students at Success Academy can see beyond the struggles and discomfort of the moment, and appreciate the sacrifice that people all around them are making in order to help them succeed. Go scholars!
8
Bravo! Disrupting a system requires courage. Ms. Moskowitz has faced her critics squarely and stayed the course, raising the scope of her mission.
9
At what point does Child Protective Services step in and reccommend the removal of a leader who rewards subordinates for preventing a child from relieving himself or herself in the manner taught to him or her from the day he/she moved beyond diapers? I cannot fathom an educational system in which every child can expect to see a classmate brought low by these FASCIST punitive practices and EVA MOSKOWITZ is a cruel monster to make this traumatizing experience part of your elementary school day. I don't care what tokens she hangs on the door or uses to bait desperate kids, she is a torturer, plain and simple, and unfit to raise a generation of children.
7
Clearly they don't have any ADHD kids in these schools. It would be hellish for them to sit perfectly on the carpet and at the desk and take so much of their concentration they would never learn. So much for "successful" test scores. They'd be out and back into public school in a New York minute.
5
How do you know? Perhaps the structure might help them, instead of the chaos many see everyday in their own schools. Again, citations please.
Incredibly successful!!!! How NYC public schools used to be before political correctness, victimhood and excuses and the teachers' union took over.
6
Boy oh boy...I can see now why the Success Network bothers the heck out of liberals like DiBlasio, the teachers union & the NYT Editors.
Imagine! Teachers are actually held accountable for their resp. student's success or failure. The students themselves are highly motivated and WANT to succeed! I think most of the nuns from my old Catholic grammar school who taught me would probably do quite well in Ms. Moskowitz's system.
The only universally accepted symptom of insanity is performing the same action in the same manner over and over again and expecting a different result. That describes the NYC Public School System quite accurately, I believe.
Imagine! Teachers are actually held accountable for their resp. student's success or failure. The students themselves are highly motivated and WANT to succeed! I think most of the nuns from my old Catholic grammar school who taught me would probably do quite well in Ms. Moskowitz's system.
The only universally accepted symptom of insanity is performing the same action in the same manner over and over again and expecting a different result. That describes the NYC Public School System quite accurately, I believe.
9
State testing is the highest form of "Big Government". What other topic has so many politicians playing expert and telling people (who dedicate their lives to the topic) how to conduct their profession? Meanwhile, parents & students are not held accountable.
The teacher has 25-40 students per class, one hour a day at most. Parents have access to their child how many hours of the day?
The focus should be on bad or non-existent parenting. Once bad parenting is exposed then the relative small % of bad teachers will be easier to spot.
Back to state testing - what good is this money spent on coercing teachers to teach students to pass A single test? Makes zero sen$e
The teacher has 25-40 students per class, one hour a day at most. Parents have access to their child how many hours of the day?
The focus should be on bad or non-existent parenting. Once bad parenting is exposed then the relative small % of bad teachers will be easier to spot.
Back to state testing - what good is this money spent on coercing teachers to teach students to pass A single test? Makes zero sen$e
Only poor children get the drill and kill and sit still education. Only poor children get teachers who are not really teachers, but nice young women who are mostly white and want to help people, who get overtrained in don't-move-a-muscle unless I tell you to style "classroom management" as though the Hispanic and black students they teach would grow into wild men of Borneo, Isis-Style gang bangers otherwise. Only poor children get Ponzi-scheme education that benefits private corporations, but not their neighborhoods or futures. Only poor children get judged as successful learners on the basis of short term memory computer readable spelling and math tests, or any standardized tests at all. College acceptance to any decent school is not based on these tests or these skills. If the alternative is no real education at all, perhaps this seems attractive, but for poor children in the United States, there really is no education worth the name. Just stay a slave and go work at Walmarts or McDonalds and please never vote for your own interest seems to be the message. The only positive description I've seen is that these children get more extra-curricular activities, such as music and art, and that teachers do not have spend out of their own pockets for photocopies and supplies. Americans should not accept either under-resourced (ergo substandard) public schools or make-your-own (Robber Baron sub-standard) charter schools. What a waste.
23
The public schools ARE under-resourced. They usually do a better job than charters regardless, and part of the reason they're under-resourced is because so many resources have been diverted to fund the charter scam.
Americans shouldn't accept the current situation. But while they're advocating for equity, they should put their kids in public schools and call for the closing of charters.
Americans shouldn't accept the current situation. But while they're advocating for equity, they should put their kids in public schools and call for the closing of charters.
2
On what basis do you demean the people of Borneo? You should retract your shameful slur.
Most middle and working class kids already know how to sit still and pay attention. The schools are constantly disrupted by a chaotic student body. As for standardized tests, everyone takes them and needs them to get into any college. I find it interesting that you criticize white young women for teaching, but do not criticize anyone else, do you know the minority break down of teachers working for Success? As for your silly left wing babble, I will note that you are white too, why do you think you have the answer? Since there is no choice in NYC public schools and many, many more parents trying to get their children a spot in one of these charters, perhaps you should try to open your mind a little and find out just why this is.
Progressives want to raise dysfunctional generations of kids who can't do math, read, or think for themselves so these kids will go on to be welfare recipients and wards of the state. Why? Because it justifies government control over them and an ever-expanding bureaucratic state. Functioning adults who can read and write are more likely to get a job and become self-sufficient. And if everyone grew up to be self sufficient, there wouldn't be any need for Democrats.
17
Learning to think is not the product of driving creativity out of the classroom. Being able to regurgitate memorized answers is not problem solving. Those in our society that can invent and drive our economy have skills that are totally lacking in the test driven environment. We need to be supportive and work as a team to achieve things beyond our own capabilities. I don't get the impression that these school are doing anything other than creating stressed out unhappy test takers. Very sad.
6
That everyone can grow up self-sufficient is a great aspiration. But it is also magical thinking and cannot sustain a successful human community.
6
People want their children to be welfare recipients instead of going to college and/or getting a job? I have NEVER met anyone who wanted this and I grew up in an area with high poverty. Every welfare recipient I have ever met has looked for a job until they found one. Opportunities is what this article is about, some people have more and some have less and it makes all the difference.
1
As a twenty five year veteran educator in the New York City school system, I cannot offer anything but accolades to those that run the Success Network. The failure of the public system is directly tied to the atmosphere of permissiveness. Without a system of checks and balances we cannot expect to see our city's student succeed no less excel. Those student's who are not cut out to learn in a system that demands rigor ought to be sent to another less demanding school. I am a product of the private school system and I am the first to admit that private schools are far from perfect. I do believe that these same private schools set minimal demands on their students and parents. Most public schools do not enforce systematic compliance with their rules. Success schools are bound to succeed!
25
Public School teacher here. I'm truly happy that your daughter is having a positive learning experience. That said, I can't help but imagine the school next door as containing the kids without the aptitude and strong family support.
1
That public schools need to have more latitude to address student behavior does not excuse the lies and opportunism represented by these charters. Publics are still the better option.
1
A number of the detractors of SA schools harp on the stringent rules and structure: it is likely that they never experienced what passes for education today. After years at a highly rated school in Cobble Hill, we grew increasingly frustrated with the class punishments meted out when one kid hit another, as well as the completely lax learning environment. How bad was it? We would have to spend all summer after 5th grade to prepare our daughters for middle school math. And this was at a highly rated school, remember.
We have never had an experience as positive as the one our youngest is having at SA Cobble Hill. Was the structure a challenge early on? Yes, it was. But now every student in her class knows the expectations that are set. My daughter absolutely loves going to school, and wants to be just like her teacher when she grows up. More than that however, she is absolutely e celling as a result of the standards that are set for her and her classmates.
Is SA for everyone? Absolutely not. Some students can handle, and will thrive in a different environment. But the charge that it teaches to the rest, or discards students who are underperforming is simply not based in fact.
The primary truth is this: expectations matter. SA schools set expectations, whereas far too many non-charter public schools fail to do so. Children need to learn expectations, and then need to recognize that their efforts to meet those expectations increase their chances through life.
We have never had an experience as positive as the one our youngest is having at SA Cobble Hill. Was the structure a challenge early on? Yes, it was. But now every student in her class knows the expectations that are set. My daughter absolutely loves going to school, and wants to be just like her teacher when she grows up. More than that however, she is absolutely e celling as a result of the standards that are set for her and her classmates.
Is SA for everyone? Absolutely not. Some students can handle, and will thrive in a different environment. But the charge that it teaches to the rest, or discards students who are underperforming is simply not based in fact.
The primary truth is this: expectations matter. SA schools set expectations, whereas far too many non-charter public schools fail to do so. Children need to learn expectations, and then need to recognize that their efforts to meet those expectations increase their chances through life.
26
I agree that expectations need to be set and they need to be set high, but when children wet themselves in their seats, and it's applauded as a sign of dedication, that is going too far.
2
The answer, then, is to remove the restrictions that prevent real public schools from making kids behave, not to scrap the superior public system and sell it off to opportunists like Moskowitz.
2
I didn't see a happy face on anyone, not the kids in school nor the people pictured at the rally for support or Success Academies. What ever happened to hanging out, being silly and having fun - all while going to school??!
13
"Whatever happened to hanging out, being silly and having fun."
That ended with factory jobs moving overseas, teacher's unions caring more about their tenure than student success and the overall teacher incompetence in public schools. Now, if you don't graduate at least with a master's degree you can't get a job as a ditch-digger.
That ended with factory jobs moving overseas, teacher's unions caring more about their tenure than student success and the overall teacher incompetence in public schools. Now, if you don't graduate at least with a master's degree you can't get a job as a ditch-digger.
I'm not sure if this post is meant to be sarcastic or is just unintentional self-parody, but everything has its time and place. Children are sent to school to learn and prepare them for life, and not to be silly or to hang out. No doubt that kids prefer "fun" and giggles to be the guiding focus of education, but only the lazy teacher allows that to dictate the classroom agenda and accepts their current happy silliness as an acceptable trade off for an education and a future.
"At Success Academy Harlem 2 last year, 91 percent of students passed the state math tests, up from 76 percent the previous year. At Public School 30, which shares the building with Success Academy Harlem 2, 16% of students passed."
Do we think the DOE makes these tests *particularly* difficult? Why is this article NOT talking about Public School 30 where 16% of students passed the state math test.
As a parent of two children in public school in New York City, I am so thankful we have pioneers like Eva Moskowitz not supporting a 16% pass rate and the future that that holds.
This article misses the mark and saddens me for how damaging "tone" can relay in an article. How many children attend PS 30 and how many more would Kate Taylor want to send there? Would she send her own children there?
Do we think the DOE makes these tests *particularly* difficult? Why is this article NOT talking about Public School 30 where 16% of students passed the state math test.
As a parent of two children in public school in New York City, I am so thankful we have pioneers like Eva Moskowitz not supporting a 16% pass rate and the future that that holds.
This article misses the mark and saddens me for how damaging "tone" can relay in an article. How many children attend PS 30 and how many more would Kate Taylor want to send there? Would she send her own children there?
28
Seriously Eric. God bless Ms. Moskowitz, right? She is doing tremendous work in the shadow of a incredibly arrogant mayor and an union establishment that would rather see her, and by extension her students, fail rather than create a model to be replicated in the larger system.
3
At Success Academy Harlem 2 last year, 121 students sat for the 4th grade exam. It's odd, because just 2 years earlier, their 2nd grade class had 166 students, or a decline of over 25%. And their pass rate increased - good job.
By the way, SA Harlem 2 is located in District 5. In all of District 5, the enrollment decline between 2nd and 4th grades those same years was under 10%.
Where did 25% of those students in Success Academy's 2nd grade class end up? Let's all agree that an audit of that would be most enlightening. And also an audit of PS 30 and other public schools in District 5, so we can see where their students end up, also. Perhaps the Success Academy students are just being held back and move up the next year. Or perhaps they are held back or suspended until they leave.
It's incomprehensible that you would not want to look more closely at a school that you think can be a model for other schools. Unless you are fearful of what might be discovered.
By the way, SA Harlem 2 is located in District 5. In all of District 5, the enrollment decline between 2nd and 4th grades those same years was under 10%.
Where did 25% of those students in Success Academy's 2nd grade class end up? Let's all agree that an audit of that would be most enlightening. And also an audit of PS 30 and other public schools in District 5, so we can see where their students end up, also. Perhaps the Success Academy students are just being held back and move up the next year. Or perhaps they are held back or suspended until they leave.
It's incomprehensible that you would not want to look more closely at a school that you think can be a model for other schools. Unless you are fearful of what might be discovered.
4
Nobody's accepting that failure rate except the families creating it. But Moskowitz, statistically speaking, isn't doing anything about it. The test scores mostly vary on out-of-school factors; she's grouping a bunch of kids together who would've been the top scorers in public schools, giving them instruction that (again, statistically speaking) is probably lower-quality than is available in publics, and then taking credit because their relatively good parenting outweighs the harm she's done to them.
I wouldn't send my kids to her.
I wouldn't send my kids to her.
3
Where did reporters get the notion that hard-working teachers in non-charter schools don't put in 11 hours (or more!) per day? It has become an article of faith that charter school teachers work longer hours. It's just not true! And it should be noted that despite scoring higher on state and city tests, no children in Success Academy were able to score high enough on SHSATs to get into the high school Eva Moskowitz went to. Why is that? What children need is a stable school with a committed faculty that is able to perform the job (yes, it's a JOB) well. Teaching well requires that there is an adequate infrastructure (supplies, books, rooms, toilet paper) in which to teach and learn. Too often that is missing from most neighborhood schools. Stop chasing ideological fads and NY Times anointed "stars" and start doing some real reporting on what has been happening to neighborhood schools!
31
The difference is that they are mandated to put in longer hours - working longer school days and Saturdays. Traditional teachers put in long hours outside the school day, oftentimes at home. I have a friend who worked at a charter that put her on call until 9 p.m. at night for homework help, after being required to stay at school until 5 p.m.
The truth is that SA's model isn't sustainable. It preys on young teachers who can't find work elsewhere, who leave at their first chance, and desperate parents in poor urban neighborhoods looking for a magic fix. SA promises a magic fix, but time will likely tell that short-run gains in standardized tests aren't going to translate into lifelong success.
The truth is that SA's model isn't sustainable. It preys on young teachers who can't find work elsewhere, who leave at their first chance, and desperate parents in poor urban neighborhoods looking for a magic fix. SA promises a magic fix, but time will likely tell that short-run gains in standardized tests aren't going to translate into lifelong success.
2
In a just world Eva Moskowitz would have spent the last 10 years as NYC schools chancellor and Bill DiBlasio would be driving a cab somewhere.
14
@TP: You miss the point by a country mile. Moskowitz would hate the pay cut to drop to Carmen Farina's salary And she is only interested in students with motivated, involved parents. The Public Schools are legally *required* to take ALL children, including those with indifferent or even abusive parents. And the Public Schools are further required to take students who don't speak English and who have special education needs. Moskowitz and her business model do their best to give all of those students a miss. THAT makes the comparison inapt.
1
Sounds like we're now sanctioning child abuse and humiliation instead of education and thinking skills. Why aren't child protective services in these schools? You call that progress???? Wow, I'd never sign my child up for this.
23
"I'd never sign my child up for this."
That's fair, but the length of the wait-list suggests that many parents would. Certainly the schools don't sound "perfect" for my tastes either, but it may be that those parents are sufficient desperate that this is the best choice available for their children.
I'd not send my children to schools with the low rates of literacy and numeracy of the NYC schools, either. Would you?
...Andrew
That's fair, but the length of the wait-list suggests that many parents would. Certainly the schools don't sound "perfect" for my tastes either, but it may be that those parents are sufficient desperate that this is the best choice available for their children.
I'd not send my children to schools with the low rates of literacy and numeracy of the NYC schools, either. Would you?
...Andrew
I bet even the fanciest Manhattan private schools don't have such high test scores. The truth is that the education reforms of the last half century have been a disaster, except in upper-middle-class communities. SA is turning back the clock and proving that traditional educational methods work best. I say, bring back Latin and corporal punishment.
11
Actually there is a public elementary school in Sunset Park, PS172, with higher test scores and 90% free lunch that has none of these borderline abusive regimented rules. The thing it has in common with SA is providing extra afterschool and weekend time for kids who aren't getting it in class. Helping kids who aren't learning with tutoring solves the problem by itself. Pant-wetting, ramrod straight sitting, uniforms, and humiliation aren't necessary.
1
Test scores vary mostly based on out-of-school factors. The only "reform" here is grouping high-achieving, high-poverty students together and then taking credit for the parenting they've received.
And since family income is much more indicative of average test scores than anything the school does, odds are the fanciest Manhattan private schools have higher scores.
And since family income is much more indicative of average test scores than anything the school does, odds are the fanciest Manhattan private schools have higher scores.
1
Yes, some good old corporal punishment! Just what we need to fill our prisons with abused children who have low esteem and the usually resultant low IQ.
This is bizarre. First a 26 year old principal with zero real life experience? These folks are good party members not educators. I don't know if I should feel more sorry for the students or the teachers, both sets of whom are working in an atmosphere of fear and abuse. Scandals I'd say ate a few years away.
Have we learned nothing? You can't teach a love of lifetime learning through fear and bullying.
And by the way, are these places above the law? FERPA doesn't apply? How can student grades be publicly posted?
This is a bizarre ideological experiment to create obedient robots.
Have we learned nothing? You can't teach a love of lifetime learning through fear and bullying.
And by the way, are these places above the law? FERPA doesn't apply? How can student grades be publicly posted?
This is a bizarre ideological experiment to create obedient robots.
27
Talk to the test scores. Say what you want about the 26 year old principle. In truth I found that a bit odd. But if 90% of the students at her school are at grade level or above in reading and math then focusing on the principal's age completely misses the point. These kids aren't being bullied. They are being given structure, support, motivation and accountability. None of these things exist in any meaningful way in NYC public schools.
The bizarre ideological experiment was allowing the UFT to call the shots over the last 50 years. Thank goodness people have started to realise this and are doing everything they can to get out from under the union's thumb.
The bizarre ideological experiment was allowing the UFT to call the shots over the last 50 years. Thank goodness people have started to realise this and are doing everything they can to get out from under the union's thumb.
3
Good party members are the teacher's unions.
Charter schools claim to be public schools when the money is being handed out, but private enterprises when transparency is suggested. So no, they'd probably claim that FERPA and FOIA don't apply.
2
It's an irony - that the commenters who accuse of this teaching method as uncreative, stoic, and depriving of critical thinking are falling prey to last-century assumptions themselves:
Teaching to the test = churning out uncreative, non-competitive, nonchalant learners who are destined to fail at independent critical thinking
Teaching to intrinsic motivation, creativity and freedom of knowledge exploration = cultivating outstanding citizens, unique contributors to society, and intellectually fulfilled thinkers
These formulas simply don't work anymore. I'm astounded by the knee-jerk reactions pervasive on this board.
Today's world is so competitive. On a larger scale, most Americans do realize this, therefore we see countless of STEM promotions in educational programs; we see awareness in the need to expand entrepreneurial capacities; that productivity within the US needs a serious boost because manufacturing and services are way too reliant on overseas outsourcing. Yet these key facilitators in a better future require far more intense discipline and resistance to pressure before you can even get to be be a successful leader in innovation.
Don't say that entrepreneurs (assuming they are the most creative people you can find) can live without discipline, without reality checks on a daily basis that they aren't performing good enough to survive, or without unreasonable expectations determined by their investors.
Teaching to the test = churning out uncreative, non-competitive, nonchalant learners who are destined to fail at independent critical thinking
Teaching to intrinsic motivation, creativity and freedom of knowledge exploration = cultivating outstanding citizens, unique contributors to society, and intellectually fulfilled thinkers
These formulas simply don't work anymore. I'm astounded by the knee-jerk reactions pervasive on this board.
Today's world is so competitive. On a larger scale, most Americans do realize this, therefore we see countless of STEM promotions in educational programs; we see awareness in the need to expand entrepreneurial capacities; that productivity within the US needs a serious boost because manufacturing and services are way too reliant on overseas outsourcing. Yet these key facilitators in a better future require far more intense discipline and resistance to pressure before you can even get to be be a successful leader in innovation.
Don't say that entrepreneurs (assuming they are the most creative people you can find) can live without discipline, without reality checks on a daily basis that they aren't performing good enough to survive, or without unreasonable expectations determined by their investors.
8
But education is about more than becoming an entrepreneur. Education is not just about learning to succeed in a corporate atmosphere. Education is not the same as business. And if Success Academy were to be given a performance evaluation, wouldn't their high employee turnover rate be a clear sign that something is amiss?
3
The Success Academy Charter School is not a desirable or sustainable model. It functions much as a parasite. Taxpayers and real public schools are the unfortunate hosts.
13
Critics who claim that charter schools are costing taxpayers more are misinformed. Public charter schools actually receive less government funding per pupil than a traditional district school. So taxpayers actually spend less per child at a charter school than they do at a district school. Just wanted to clarify. Obviously this lack of government funding is why charter schools tend to rely on donations from other parties such as foundations and philanthropists to supplement the costs of running a school.
9
It's more like the medicine you'd take to kill the parasitic teachers' unions, which is why charters are hated so much.
7
Meanwhile the students at the typically Progressive run schools become parasites on society when they are unable to find work due to their mediocre education. Progressives want people who are dependent on society to bolster their claim that big government must supply a safety net to help the unfortunate.
I'll believe that these schools are the cat's meow when I see parents off all ethnic backgrounds and income levels scheming for a way to get in.
Until then, I'll consider them a band-aid on the apartheid-inspired school practices that pass as "Choice" and "zoned schools"
Until then, I'll consider them a band-aid on the apartheid-inspired school practices that pass as "Choice" and "zoned schools"
13
My son goes to Success Academy Upper West. If I were to guess at the racial makeup of the school, I would say it is 30% white, 30% black, 30% Hispanic, and 10% Asian.
This is way more diverse than the public school we are zoned for.
This is way more diverse than the public school we are zoned for.
1
While the figures are not broken down by ethnic or income; I think the fact from the article, " the network said, it received more than 22,000 applications for 2,688 seats.", says that a large number of parents are 'scheming for a way to get in'.
Did you read the article? 22,000 for about 2700 slots! All by lottery.
1
It seems to me this article has done a huge disservice to the parents of kids enrolled in Success Academies. All we hear is carping and complaining from lily white progressives about how bad all this is, but very little from the actual parents who send their kids there. If Success Academy were treating students so poorly, surely there must be some swell of parental discontent ready to come crashing down on Eva Moskowitz' head. So where is it? Why do we only hear criticism from anonymous yokels in the internet? What business is any of this to anyone other than a teacher, administrator or parent of a child in one these schools?
Go figure, some parents don't want to send their kids anywhere near a school where only 20% are at grade level. I know, shocking!
Go figure, some parents don't want to send their kids anywhere near a school where only 20% are at grade level. I know, shocking!
24
Sounds great to me.
Don't see anything polarizing here. If it works, do it. If you don't like it, don't join it. Simple.
My six grade instructor did the same...55 years ago. Competition and discipline were explicit public and incapable of evasion; offenders were hung by the belt from the wall six feet off the ground until lunch or the end of class for the day.
I learned. So did everyone.
I still thank God for Mr. Meyers.
Don't see anything polarizing here. If it works, do it. If you don't like it, don't join it. Simple.
My six grade instructor did the same...55 years ago. Competition and discipline were explicit public and incapable of evasion; offenders were hung by the belt from the wall six feet off the ground until lunch or the end of class for the day.
I learned. So did everyone.
I still thank God for Mr. Meyers.
11
This is the same old story: we're too lazy, too cheap, to figure out how to get people jobs, decent livings, reasonable communities, good schools, so we're running educational mills. Who cares how many kids we throw by the wayside?
there's not a lot to cheer about in our many lousy public schools, but at least we're not lying to ourselves about how well they work. Nor is there a lot to cheer about in the fact that for the wealthy--who learn in schools nothing like this--school works great.
55-hour workweeks for teachers, BEFORE you get to the grading and the endless weekend and holiday pep rallies and community events? good grief.
there's not a lot to cheer about in our many lousy public schools, but at least we're not lying to ourselves about how well they work. Nor is there a lot to cheer about in the fact that for the wealthy--who learn in schools nothing like this--school works great.
55-hour workweeks for teachers, BEFORE you get to the grading and the endless weekend and holiday pep rallies and community events? good grief.
10
It looks like my child would not be welcome at this school. He has Asperger's and ADHD. We KNOW he learns better when he fidgets. He may seem like he's not paying attention, but when asked, he can tell you all that was said. (He's also gifted.) His anxiety would be through the roof at a school like this.
It sounds like they are making little marionettes from the children - each one the same, no one allowed to be an individual. Is this what we want our kids to be?
It sounds like they are making little marionettes from the children - each one the same, no one allowed to be an individual. Is this what we want our kids to be?
23
I wonder whether SA is subject to the ADA. That would be interesting to explore-- but not to use a kid as a guinea pig!
3
I have an Asperger's child at Success Academy and the structure is brilliant for him. He's thriving. Beloved by his teachers. His creative spark is none diminished for all the skills he's building. GL - we are special parents.
12
The article is false and they do have fun, they work hard, 9 hours at school but they have dance, fun times, sports, dess up days, and they do learn. My son is like yours and does really well in the structured environment of SA.
Success Academic is undoing the damage of 50 years of progressive ideology that has treated children as guinea pigs for the idea that everyone is a potential Einstein. Such a view is so very appealing to traditionally poor and low status minorities, who for that reason, are most vulnerable to the flattering but irresponsible visions of education charlatans, especially when they seem to have the patina of science in their claims. Didn't Einstein also not do well in school? Shouldn't everyone be encouraged to realize their full potential? Doesn't wrote learning kill creativity and critical thinking? It's only after so many years of unmitigated disastrous consequences on the very people who most needed a good basic education that sufficient data has been generated to question and overcome the natural appeal of these claims. But, these claims are not refuted. Americans especially do not like to believe that not everyone is of equal ability. The poor naturally find unappealing the prospect that tremendous hardships must be endured to rise, even in America. Clearly, more lives need to be sacrificed to disprove this pernicious ideology.
13
This is the most self-satisfied, heartless and ignorant formulation of the achievement challenge I've ever read. For all kids' sakes, I hope you never come near a classroom. Perhaps you never have.
2
It is a myth that Einstein did not do well in school. The school changed the grading system after he passed the 5th grade. He was always at the top of his class.
1
Great - we "teach" and so-called "test" these poor children just like they do in other highly regimented poorer countries like China, India and South Korea - where the kids also study long, incredible hours, go to special tutoring sessions after class, study on Saturdays, etc, etc. And is China, South Korea or India producing any more important inventions or patents, the ultimate indication of productivity or success compared to the more free-thinking culture of elite American universities like Stanford, Harvard or Johns Hopkins? No.
Maybe these kinds of "charter" schools will have some modicum of "success" in terms of increasing the internal discipline for some children, but as a successful inventor and medical researcher myself, the regimen that these poor children are subjected to sounds extremely STRESSFUL to me - these children will have the rest of their LIVES to get overly stressed out!
The best achievers in life have to be internally motivated AND think outside-of-the-box - and I see NOTHING in this kind of learning approach that would want me to hire ANY of these poor, stressed-out and overly regimented kids 10 or 15 years from now - assuming of course, that they first can get into Harvard or Stanford, graduate with their creativity skills still intact and not already burned-out. To successfully compete against the rest of the world, we need to produce not just hardworking ROBOTS who can pass standardized tests, but rather MOTIVATED and highly CREATIVE students.
Maybe these kinds of "charter" schools will have some modicum of "success" in terms of increasing the internal discipline for some children, but as a successful inventor and medical researcher myself, the regimen that these poor children are subjected to sounds extremely STRESSFUL to me - these children will have the rest of their LIVES to get overly stressed out!
The best achievers in life have to be internally motivated AND think outside-of-the-box - and I see NOTHING in this kind of learning approach that would want me to hire ANY of these poor, stressed-out and overly regimented kids 10 or 15 years from now - assuming of course, that they first can get into Harvard or Stanford, graduate with their creativity skills still intact and not already burned-out. To successfully compete against the rest of the world, we need to produce not just hardworking ROBOTS who can pass standardized tests, but rather MOTIVATED and highly CREATIVE students.
28
I started Jr. High at JHS 296 in Brooklyn. I had to take the bus or subway there because I was in a new program called SPE. It was highly regimented. We had at least 2-3 hours of homework every night and over the weekend. One of our classmates, Howard Lim not only had to deal with this amount of work but also had to help out in his family's business a laundry and his Father required him to attend Chinese classes on Wednesday after school. I am sure Howard has been successful in his adult life and would credit the discipline and high expectations he lived with for it. Many of the few I can find were. Some of us became business people, two became highly successful violinists and music composers(how's that for creativity?) and I'd bet the others did well also. There is no harm in discipline nor meeting high expectations. My wife and I worked to compensate for the wishy washy educational programs that my son attended where expectation were so low. Perhaps that's why he graduated summa cum laude with degrees in Civil Engineering and Construction Engineering and Management at NC State? It is difficult to find people more disciplined than engineers.
2
Good luck getting into an elite university without sky high test scores but rather with "creative freethinker" on your application. I have STEM doctorate from an elite university and can personally attest that the creative thinking comes after quantitative mastery. Stressful is being underprepared. My children, who attend Success Academy are anything but.
2
Couldn't have said it better myself!
1
Sonofagun!!! If "polarizing tactics" work in the Charter Schools, perhaps that is, at least, something which should be attempted in our public schools.......
14
My son attends Success Academy Cobble Hill and is thriving. We have found both the teachers and administration to be extremely competent, nice, nurturing, and responsive. The school is rigorous, but it's also joyful. Far from stifling critical and independent thinking, the school's encourages such thinking in its curriculum by focusing on problem solving, evidence-based analysis, arts, and reading.
24
I'm very interested to hear how, or if, Cobble Hill SA, which serves a more economically mixed group of students, differs in teaching practices and behavior management from Success Academies in Harlem and the Bronx. As Eva and the Success Empire expands into wealthier neighborhoods, like Cobble Hill, UWS, Union Square, is she changing how the schools are run? Is Cobble Hill an outlier in its joyous nature? (Also keeping in mind that CH is only K-3... so only 1 grade has to take state exams).
I work in education and know several people who have previously worked at SA or have done extensive observations in the Harlem and Bronx schools, and I always hear praise for the level of rigor in instruction, but each person has noted a complete lack of warmth and joy in those schools.
Genuinely curious to know... while it might seem too "fluffy" to care about when so many of our students are so academically unprepared, creating a joyful, caring learning environment is crucial if we want to invest students in their own learning and inspire the intellectual curiosity and academic passion that will allow them to be successful in life beyond middle school.
I work in education and know several people who have previously worked at SA or have done extensive observations in the Harlem and Bronx schools, and I always hear praise for the level of rigor in instruction, but each person has noted a complete lack of warmth and joy in those schools.
Genuinely curious to know... while it might seem too "fluffy" to care about when so many of our students are so academically unprepared, creating a joyful, caring learning environment is crucial if we want to invest students in their own learning and inspire the intellectual curiosity and academic passion that will allow them to be successful in life beyond middle school.
8
Apparently, the Success Academy schools in Cobble Hill, Union Square, and the Upper West Side of Manhattan don't treat their far more affluent students like Success Academy Harlem 4 treats its students. i guess college educated parents would raise heck if their students were wetting their pants, or assigned to "effort academy" or had their paper torn up. Why are only low-income students subject to such questionable "learning" philosophies?
Much talk of results, but the actual methods of achieving them, the test prep itself, is withheld from the reporter's view. No red flag raised for her? Well that's a red flag for ME. Other outlets have reported that Success uses some of its hedge fund backing to purchase from Pearson, the test designer "preferred test prep materials," which are said to include a fair number of actual questions that Pearson puts on the tests. That public schools are not equipped to pay for these further skews the results. This would have been a useful line of inquiry, sadly missed, not for the first time by the Times.
The reporter notes that students who leave at the 4th grade or later are not replaced. While the unsupported claim is made that underachieving students who are disappeared from the program would still allow Success to outperform public schools if they were still present, the reporter fails to see the value of (enforced) smaller class size on the results. Add that to the greater, (unknown exactly how much) spending per pupil, and Success has managed to replicate the two factors most often mentioned in achievement in wealthy suburban districts: small class size and greater per pupil expenditures.
Finally, no Times article about Success is complete without citing the pupils' prominent placement in political rallies. This is done without EVER mentioning that it would be ILLEGAL to do with public school students, or the compulsory attendance at rallies. Level playing field? Hogwash.
The reporter notes that students who leave at the 4th grade or later are not replaced. While the unsupported claim is made that underachieving students who are disappeared from the program would still allow Success to outperform public schools if they were still present, the reporter fails to see the value of (enforced) smaller class size on the results. Add that to the greater, (unknown exactly how much) spending per pupil, and Success has managed to replicate the two factors most often mentioned in achievement in wealthy suburban districts: small class size and greater per pupil expenditures.
Finally, no Times article about Success is complete without citing the pupils' prominent placement in political rallies. This is done without EVER mentioning that it would be ILLEGAL to do with public school students, or the compulsory attendance at rallies. Level playing field? Hogwash.
25
I am a 4th grade teacher at a high performing public elementary school, and the children who disproportionately need intervention are my students who are new to the school.
2
I have a child who was repeatedly shamed by his teacher -- both in private and in front of the class -- when he was in 2nd grade. Apparently, this teacher selected one kid each year to be her (metaphorical)" "whipping boy"; while other parents and students would sing her praises and talk about how great she was, I had a kid regularly in tears, wondering what he had done wrong and how he could be such a failure when he was trying so hard (and loved school). At AGE 7. And of course, he was mocked by the other students as well. The school administration wasn't helpful at all-- until we put our child in therapy for severe self-esteem issues and the teacher knew she was being watched by other adults. I don't doubt the sincerity of the parents whose kids love SA, but do they have a clue about what's happening to the kids who don't fit the SA mold? My son is now 23, and a great human being all around, but it took him years to overcome the abuse he suffered from that teacher.
20
Brooklynite, if your son is 23 I'm guessing he didn't go to a Success Academy school, in which case what you've described most definitely goes on in public schools as well.
I'd rather have my kid be a "whipping boy" in a school that actually gets its kids to grade-level proficiency than in one where 20% proficiency is the norm.
And know this, if a teacher is truly abusive to a student he or she can be fired a charter school, whereas the bad apples just continue to rot in traditional public schools.
I'd rather have my kid be a "whipping boy" in a school that actually gets its kids to grade-level proficiency than in one where 20% proficiency is the norm.
And know this, if a teacher is truly abusive to a student he or she can be fired a charter school, whereas the bad apples just continue to rot in traditional public schools.
5
You have nailed it. Most of the parents who are claiming they don't witness what is described in this article are the college educated parents whose children attend the Success Academy schools where such parents all seem to be clustered. At those Success Academy schools -- located in affluent neighborhoods where neighborhood residents get priority -- there seems to be a much gentler approach, which is proven by every parent posting here claiming they don't witness this. That is because their "gifted" children are treated kindly since they will easily score well on the tests. What is appalling is that they seem blithely unconcerned for the well-being of the students in other Success Academy schools who are subjected to this treatment because they need to score high on the exam or leave.
3
Actually, it was a private school.
Discipline is a bad thing? Creativity cannot be taught; the "new age" types who don't believe in regimen, high standards, discipline, hard work and the basics of reading, writing, science and, yes, memorizing, are the ones who have driven our school system to the bottom of the heap. This is the type of school that should replace the existing public schools which are administrative and politically-correct nightmares for the parents and do little for the children. Discipline and hard work become life-long habits. Somebody needs to explain how the current system creates "scholars" or enhances creativity. It certainly creates dropouts, failure to get into colleges, and a lack of discipline in higher education.
7
I am probably one of your new age types; my complaint is that these schools are too easy, too lazy, and phony solutions.
3
I suppose you got a good trashing or two when you were a kid. Sadly no great scientists, musician, inventor, etc. emerges from these gulags.
2
The most troubling issues surrounding Success Academy, are the ones taken for granted in the article.
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Kids in poor communities are barred from high performing neighborhood schools, thanks to rigid school zone borders. This is tragically unfair. Access to a quality, public education should not be a luxury, reserved for those who can afford expensive houses. But somehow, this is what has happened. And Charters like Success Academy are really only a reaction to it.
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Opponents to Charters love to point out that problem kids, and children with special needs, are simply kicked out. But let me ask two questions. First, will you send your own child to a school where problem kids persistently disrupt class? Second, can you point to a large, urban school district with effective programs problem kids and special needs children?
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Kids in poor communities are barred from high performing neighborhood schools, thanks to rigid school zone borders. This is tragically unfair. Access to a quality, public education should not be a luxury, reserved for those who can afford expensive houses. But somehow, this is what has happened. And Charters like Success Academy are really only a reaction to it.
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Opponents to Charters love to point out that problem kids, and children with special needs, are simply kicked out. But let me ask two questions. First, will you send your own child to a school where problem kids persistently disrupt class? Second, can you point to a large, urban school district with effective programs problem kids and special needs children?
11
Kids in poor communities are barred from many Success Academy schools! See, those students used to get lottery priority, but Eva Moskowitz decided it would be better to make sure the students living in the District had priority instead. It is just a coincidence that she decided that at the same time she started to open new schools in the wealthiest school districts in Manhattan and Brooklyn. So now, there are more Success Academy schools in wealthy District 2 in Manhattan than in very poor District 7 in the Bronx. And guess what? NONE of those spots in the District 2 Success Academy schools in Manhattan are available to those kids from poor communities! Even the first year, when there were unfilled spots in those schools, they were mysteriously left empty, despite the very long wait lists for schools in districts where primarily poor students live. And what's sad is that District 7 is STILL waiting for a 2nd Success Academy. But hey, I guess the District 2 students "needed" a 3rd school more. What is "unfair" is a charter chain PRETENDING it can serve at-risk students using less money, and justifying budget cuts for the schools that really do serve them.
10
So far I'm unaware whether Success Academy has reached the high school level and I would be curious to know how this model translates to higher grades. I don't hear anything about teaching students to love to read for the sake of reading, to learn about great authors, to have time to explore learning for the sake of learning rather than to take a test.
I disagree with shaming students and I admire the high achievement levels. Somewhere it seems to me, there needs to be a middle ground that combines achievement with learning to love learning, and being allowed, as well, to make mistakes as part of the learning process. This model doesn't seem to encourage mistakes as part of that experience. Where would scientist be if their research careers didn't include the occasional blind alley and mistakes that they could learn from without retribution or punishment?
I disagree with shaming students and I admire the high achievement levels. Somewhere it seems to me, there needs to be a middle ground that combines achievement with learning to love learning, and being allowed, as well, to make mistakes as part of the learning process. This model doesn't seem to encourage mistakes as part of that experience. Where would scientist be if their research careers didn't include the occasional blind alley and mistakes that they could learn from without retribution or punishment?
12
The kids' scores are good, but what are they actually learning? How many adults needs to know how to answer a multiple choice question? The reality is that this is creating automatons, not critical thinkers.
9
MZ - it's nice simply to have to ask the question "are they learning" in charter schools, whereas in public schools we already know the answer.
10
Your simplistic repetition of "public schools are failing" shows your lack of familiarity with public schools and desire to spread corporate model propaganda. I stop listening at " the public schools are failing us". It's not true, stop it.
10
I don't think anyone disputes that myriad NYC public schools are failing - not Farina, not DeBlasio.
It is not a controversial idea.
It is not a controversial idea.
1
I am a parent at SA in Brooklyn. I have not seen any teacher turnover in the last 2 years and am so amazed at the kids and their smiles at the end of long schools days. I'm not An educator but the results speak for themselves and I couldn't be happier with my child experience . He is flourishing and at 7 years old teaching me a few things . Keep up the good work SA Staff
14
If I were a kid trapped in this madness, I'd be smiling at the end of the day too.
7
There is one thing that misinformed critics on the internet will never be able to take away from you, and that is the fact that your scholar is genuinely happy and excited to learn thanks to the progressive and rigorous approach that Success Academy offers. Regardless what opinions other may have, you've seen first-hand that it does work. Parents deserve the choice to send their kids to schools other than the failing district schools, if they so choose. There is no harm in enabling parent choice. There is no harm in encouraging district and charter schools to coexist and to learn from one another.
4
People like to criticize what they do not understand. I agree that Success Academy is not for all children...but the same can be said about other charter schools and gifted and talented schools as well. I think Success Academy offers its students a new way of learning that is not restricted by a curriculum that teachers need to follow like in public schools. I am a product of charter schools and the work was always tough, (I attended two separate charter schools from 5th grade to 12th grade), but the reward you get is greater. By the time I reached college, it seemed like a piece of cake to me...work was not hard compared to what I had studied in previous years and then I thought "this is WHY". In regards to teachers at Success Academy, I think this article fails to show the brighter side of the teaching aspect. Speaking from experience, my daughter attends Kindergarten at Success Academy and has been doing exceptionally well and really enjoys her day at school. We owe a great deal of this to her teacher who goes above and beyond to get both my daughter and the other kids in her class to reach their highest potentials. I see teachers at Success Academy who form a relationship with their students and are eager to be the best whether its at the most books read in reading logs, bulletin boards, even classroom culture. I support Success Academy 100%.
18
They're called "public schools," you know. For most of the same reasons that in our democracy, everybody gets to vote: we don't pick and choose who we find it convenient to cope with.
Not to mention that these schools are built on crackpot fantasies of what schools were back in the day, and what's needed to teach minority students.
Not to mention that these schools are built on crackpot fantasies of what schools were back in the day, and what's needed to teach minority students.
4
I have an important question: Do any of these students actually enjoy being at this school? Do any of these students love learning? Are any of these students inspired by their teachers?
3
I can provide an answer to this. My daughter is thriving at Success Academy. She can't wait to go to school every morning and adores her teachers who dole out affection in spades.
10
I know a few parents whose children attend Success Academies. They all seem to enjoy it, and one went as far as saying that her daughter "fell in love with learning" and "can't wait for school each day." I'm sure one size does not fit all, however, but it is worth noting that this approach does work for many families.
11
They really do enjoy being at school and their love of learning is profound. The teachers are not only inspirational but serve as really great role models for passion and dedication. If nothing else, I hope my children find work that brings out this same level of passion and dedication in their futures.
7
A real mixed bag, here. Strict teachers who demand much of their students don't have to be cruel. There are other ways to achieve good results.
While I totally understand that the administrators at Success Academy believe that they are saving black children's lives by showing them that with dedication to their schooling and sweat they can accomplish anything, shaming is harsh and in the long run, perhaps, counterproductive.
On the other hand, the feel-good mushy idiocy of what passes for educational philosophy for the last couple of decades or so has done real damage to our schools and to the young people we're supposed to educate. Kids don't enjoy doing homework? Fine, no homework. Tests stress them out? Aw, okay, no tests. Reading is too hard? Don't worry, read what you like even if it's trash -- at least you're reading, honey. That's all nonsense promulgated by very lazy, feckless educators -- and the parents who fret about their darlings' self-esteem.
You know, living up to your potential is what boosts self-esteem, not someone praising what's not praiseworthy.
And all the praise and cooing for minimal output. They used to say that beauty is as beauty does, and that the proof is in the pudding. We might not like some of Success Academy's methods, but at least they're not coddling their students into illiteracy and narcissism.
While I totally understand that the administrators at Success Academy believe that they are saving black children's lives by showing them that with dedication to their schooling and sweat they can accomplish anything, shaming is harsh and in the long run, perhaps, counterproductive.
On the other hand, the feel-good mushy idiocy of what passes for educational philosophy for the last couple of decades or so has done real damage to our schools and to the young people we're supposed to educate. Kids don't enjoy doing homework? Fine, no homework. Tests stress them out? Aw, okay, no tests. Reading is too hard? Don't worry, read what you like even if it's trash -- at least you're reading, honey. That's all nonsense promulgated by very lazy, feckless educators -- and the parents who fret about their darlings' self-esteem.
You know, living up to your potential is what boosts self-esteem, not someone praising what's not praiseworthy.
And all the praise and cooing for minimal output. They used to say that beauty is as beauty does, and that the proof is in the pudding. We might not like some of Success Academy's methods, but at least they're not coddling their students into illiteracy and narcissism.
6
There's one variable that's often left out when comparing charter schools and traditional public schools and that's PARENTING. Traditional public schools get all kids, every single child. Charter schools in most cases are filled with children whose parents care and purposely sought out, researched, and applied for spots at charter schools. I taught both- the teacher talent was better and far more experienced in the traditional setting.
5
As the chairperson of a remedial education program in a community college, I encounter many public high school graduates who have never learned to be successful students because they have been pampered and pushed along from grade to grade without learning. In contrast, at this charter school, these students are being motivated and taught to achieve. Although many folks may deem this charter school's techniques harsh, its students are prepared academically and for real life jobs whereas their counterparts who attend a traditional public school in the same building are already lagging behind them.
16
And I get the same students. Many of them still won't think for themselves.
1
If teaching kids were really just about achieving an impressive passing rate on standardized tests then I'd say that these schools are succeeding. But teaching and learning are about much more than the bottom line that self-described reformers and well-heeled corporate benefactors emphasize as the sole metric in deciding what's working in education. Of course we need the data that testing provides, but does the high passing rate at charter schools like Success really say more about the students' abilities or the tunnel-vision that reduces the classroom to a test prep chamber? When Albert Shankar originally advocated for charters decades ago, it was with the idea that they'd serve as a type of laboratory where new approaches to teaching and learning might propagate. Based on the practices described in the article, I'd say the chances of this method taking root in anything but a highly insulated environment are vanishingly low. Unfortunately, the public funding that these schools receive and the media attention they garner is anything but.
2
Success Academy is popular fodder for NYC, however, it is not entirely representative of "charter schools" as they exist outside of NYC. I am eternally grateful that my 10-year old daughter has the opportunity to attend an arts-based charter school in New England after mightily struggling in an intense, math-focused highly regarded public middle school that left her disheartened, bored, and disengaged. Charter schools are not for all students in all situations. They are niche institutions that provide much needed, appreciated, and essential customized curriculum and environments beyond what the public school system can provide. They are an alternative, and apparently quite successful with their target student demographic. I don't quite understand why some individuals are so upset over charter schools. So, you are upset by the reality that not all children respond to the same incentives, stimuli, structure as the "norm" provided in public schools, or you don't like the notion of public funds being spent on what is essentially an equivalent of a private school? You'd rather deny middle class families the ability to send our children to a school that fits their educational needs when the public school isn't cutting it? The reality is that charter schools represent where pedagogy is headed in the very near future. Neuroscience is hard to deny. Customization, accountability and a focus on results. Does this sound familiar to any working adults in the private sector?
7
Ms. Moskowitz should spend a bit of time in Effort Academy studying subject / verb agreement.
"We believe that structure and consistency leads to better outcomes."
Really ?
"We believe that structure and consistency leads to better outcomes."
Really ?
14
I noticed that too. I guess the corporate model of education does not value subject/verb agreement.
1
The student's name was at the bottom, in the "red zone denoting... below grade level," of the charts tracking weekly spelling and math quizzes, which are posted in the hallway. The charts are reproduced in "the weekly class newsletters from the year," presumably for distribution to all the parents.
How is this not a violation of FERPA?
Has the student been screened for a learning disability, which can cause poor spelling, no matter how hard one tries?
I would never allow my children to be treated this way.
How is this not a violation of FERPA?
Has the student been screened for a learning disability, which can cause poor spelling, no matter how hard one tries?
I would never allow my children to be treated this way.
14
Then don't send your child. 10k parents do.
2
Then, as a parent, you should and do have the right to ensure that your children do not attend these schools.
I'm friends with a few parents who send their children to Success Academies, and the consensus seems to be that the unique model is absolutely worth it. The approach can be demanding on the child, but my friend tells me that her youngest daughter has fallen in love with learning since joining Success and can't wait for school each day.
Teacher turnover seems to be an issue that Success Academies struggles with, however, and this is something that they absolutely need to address and fix. Although I suppose one could argue that a charter school with superior test results and a higher teacher turnover rate is a much better alternative than a failing district school with some bad teachers that are protected by tenure?
Charter schools alone are not the solution to the education crisis facing NYC. But progress is important, and you've got to give the charter school movement kudos for trying something bold and new when the status quo is so dire and the unions fight against any meaningful change. District and charter schools should coexist, work together, and learn from one another. This is just the beginning.
Teacher turnover seems to be an issue that Success Academies struggles with, however, and this is something that they absolutely need to address and fix. Although I suppose one could argue that a charter school with superior test results and a higher teacher turnover rate is a much better alternative than a failing district school with some bad teachers that are protected by tenure?
Charter schools alone are not the solution to the education crisis facing NYC. But progress is important, and you've got to give the charter school movement kudos for trying something bold and new when the status quo is so dire and the unions fight against any meaningful change. District and charter schools should coexist, work together, and learn from one another. This is just the beginning.
15
Bad teachers aren't protected by tenure. GOOD teachers are protected by tenure. Bad teachers aren't a myth, but they're protected (if they are) by connections to administrators, incompetent principals, competent principals who know the job is so undesirable that a replacement is likely to be worse, etc. But tenure specifically allows the firing of bad teachers.
The vast majority of students would be better off if charters were all closed and outlawed. But since the high-performing students would be spread around, not concentrated (in many cases) in schools that are allowed to pick and choose who they teach, that might not be immediately apparent.
The vast majority of students would be better off if charters were all closed and outlawed. But since the high-performing students would be spread around, not concentrated (in many cases) in schools that are allowed to pick and choose who they teach, that might not be immediately apparent.
5
You're correct that bad teachers can still be fired, but it's a painstakingly long process and we still need greater accountability.
How would outlawing charter schools do anything to fix the status quo? Our education system is broken due to failing district schools and it does not make sense to move backwards and outlaw alternatives that offer results to families who otherwise would be helpless. Charter schools alone are not the solution, but it is progress - especially to the children and parents they serve. We need to encourage positive and meaningful education reform by working together, not trying to destroy charter schools or, on the other hand, trying to destroy teachers unions.
How would outlawing charter schools do anything to fix the status quo? Our education system is broken due to failing district schools and it does not make sense to move backwards and outlaw alternatives that offer results to families who otherwise would be helpless. Charter schools alone are not the solution, but it is progress - especially to the children and parents they serve. We need to encourage positive and meaningful education reform by working together, not trying to destroy charter schools or, on the other hand, trying to destroy teachers unions.
2
Most people want, first, an effective education for their children. I don't see why many comments treat this as a debate between two worthy alternatives. Traditional urban district schools are as complete a failure as any enterprise yet attempted by Western civilization, and urban charter schools work, to varying degrees. We should be looking at schools that work and comparing their methods, and selecting the most effective for replication. The dreck should be abandoned, and the children who would otherwise be doomed to a terrible education given a chance elsewhere.
11
People view this as a debate between two worthy alternatives because they don't know enough to talk about the subject intelligently. That's the same reason that people make the claim you're making, that public schools are failing and charters are succeeding.
People who understand the system realize that public schools are better at teaching kids than charters are, but charters have better PR. If you want to abandon the dreck, you're going to be closing charters and supporting public schools.
People who understand the system realize that public schools are better at teaching kids than charters are, but charters have better PR. If you want to abandon the dreck, you're going to be closing charters and supporting public schools.
3
This is damaging both to the people who work there via revolving doors it seems, who wouldn't dare want their names to be given for fear of reprisal even if they do not pursue teaching after leaving "Teach for Awhile" where Moskowitz gets her bottomless pit of cheap slave labor, and also for the children who have to endure the hostile test-mill environment. I find nothing inspiring about this story or Ms. Moskowitz's desire to help the poor - she is getting paid quite heftily. Shame on her.
9
The thought of attending a school with codified "teaching-to-the-test" structure like this sickens me, as a college student who not only values discipline and work ethic, but one who excelled at standardized test-taking all throughout my life. Anytime a school becomes a business and is more focused on engineering a profit from exploiting the inherently creative and freeing experience of education is an injustice to all of the students in attendance.
We tout the excellence of China and other eastern countries as excellence in testing and education, but is that the governing system we want to slowly integrate here in the United States by imitating their teaching style of high power differential?
We tout the excellence of China and other eastern countries as excellence in testing and education, but is that the governing system we want to slowly integrate here in the United States by imitating their teaching style of high power differential?
9
Amazingly, no one speaks of the incredible success of Finland, whose teaching methods are the polar opposite to this!
3
Success schools seem to follow the "poor students should be punished" line of thinking that I abhor. The theory is you work them to death and punish them when they don't succeed because that extra effort is what is needed to get poor children to score as high as middle class and wealthy children. Hogwash. While discipline is important, it will succeed if it is reasonable and consistent. Consistency is key and you certainly can't let kids get away with hitting people or swearing at them. Brain-based teaching methods used by highly trained teachers will improve performance of the students without punishing long days and forcing them to sit so long they pee on themselves. It seems to me teachers and administrators who force kids to wet themselves are participating in child abuse. It's disgusting.
14
Success schools seem to follow the "poor students should be punished" line of thinking that I abhor.
[ Perfect. ]
[ Perfect. ]
5
NYC's DOE initially invested in charter schools after visiting high performing charter schools in Chicago and other cities across America. The intent was to develop several hopefully successful charter school models here in NYC so that a collaborative partnership with public schools could develop, where sharing of ideas and information could improve our public schools. Of course, this is the opposite of what happened. It was never supposed to be about draining resources for public schools or creating a combative, competitive atmosphere. Least of all was it intended to cherry pick certain students and shun others. There are many more unsuccessful charter schools than successful ones. Overall, charter schools have not done well and have not faired better than some of the worst public schools. Eva Moskowitz' schools are the exception, but at what cost????
3
I think you're confusing the sales pitch with the actual goals. From what I can see, charters were intended to be just as destructive to actual education as they have been.
3
Eric, Charter schools couldn't possibly be more damaging to to actual education than traditional public schools if they tried.
3
She's politically connected. I think "nuff said."
I know someone who taught at a Success School; she also told tales of middle school students wetting their pants and unreasonable, abusive administrators. We teach together, and I can confirm that she is a wonderful, warm, and effective teacher.
I also know how desperate parents are to get their children in decent public schools, as my daughter did not "win" the charter lottery this year. I successfully begged my way into a decent out of zone school about two weeks before school began, aware at every step that my education, race, and professional status helped my daughter get what hundreds of other parents were unable to successfully advocate for.
I suggest that there MUST be a better way. School organizations that are abusive to their faculty and their students are unacceptable. School organizations that do not/cannot meet the needs of a wide variety of students, including special education and ESL populations that reflect the demography of the community, are unacceptable. School organizations that do not have adequate discipline or educational success are unacceptable.
It has been a hard earned lesson for me that we must judge an educational institution on how it treats society's most challenging students. Success Academy abuses, expels, or excludes these students, leaving them far short of the bar for success, despite their high test scores..
I also know how desperate parents are to get their children in decent public schools, as my daughter did not "win" the charter lottery this year. I successfully begged my way into a decent out of zone school about two weeks before school began, aware at every step that my education, race, and professional status helped my daughter get what hundreds of other parents were unable to successfully advocate for.
I suggest that there MUST be a better way. School organizations that are abusive to their faculty and their students are unacceptable. School organizations that do not/cannot meet the needs of a wide variety of students, including special education and ESL populations that reflect the demography of the community, are unacceptable. School organizations that do not have adequate discipline or educational success are unacceptable.
It has been a hard earned lesson for me that we must judge an educational institution on how it treats society's most challenging students. Success Academy abuses, expels, or excludes these students, leaving them far short of the bar for success, despite their high test scores..
15
Talk about drill and kill. Not all who are successful at test taking are actually learning or able to use critical thinking skills.
Do any of these adults remember going to school (yes,even public schools!) where learning happened in so many different ways, as opposed to today's standard of teaching to the test?
And I thought Philadelphia's education system was in trouble!
Do any of these adults remember going to school (yes,even public schools!) where learning happened in so many different ways, as opposed to today's standard of teaching to the test?
And I thought Philadelphia's education system was in trouble!
4
Are schools failing or are families failing?
As the product of NYC public schools back in the days when they were supposedly good, I know how bad they can be. But education and the desire and ability to learn and succeed begin at home. The schools cannot repair profoundly damaged children whose family lives are chaotic.
In the early and mid-20th century many New Yorkers were extremely poor and came from homes where English was the second language; from homes where parents had come from foreign rural backgrounds with no experience of American education, and those were the glory days of the NY specialized high schools and city colleges leading to a middle-class or better life. Those families prized education above everything else, though their lives may have been quite chaotic too.
Everything starts at home.
As the product of NYC public schools back in the days when they were supposedly good, I know how bad they can be. But education and the desire and ability to learn and succeed begin at home. The schools cannot repair profoundly damaged children whose family lives are chaotic.
In the early and mid-20th century many New Yorkers were extremely poor and came from homes where English was the second language; from homes where parents had come from foreign rural backgrounds with no experience of American education, and those were the glory days of the NY specialized high schools and city colleges leading to a middle-class or better life. Those families prized education above everything else, though their lives may have been quite chaotic too.
Everything starts at home.
7
Did I miss something, or are the SA students not exactly a bunch of rich kids??
2
Eagle: I am referring to the non-charter public schools and their abysmal failure rate--blame for which needs to be spread a little more widely. There was a time when children were expected to enter public schools ready to learn--an era before widespread nursery or pre-K programs. The home environment was expected to prepare and socialize children so that teachers could concentrate on teaching...
Studying and learning are both hard, hard work. Success is not easy. The teachers seem determined to get the attention of the students and make them believe that can move from the bottom of the class to the top. It will take some a lot longer than others, but basic knowledge does serve as the basis for success later.
4
What great work Ms. Moskowitz is doing. Caring enough to discipline those kids and teach them good work habits including proper attire, posture, manners, etc.
The teacher's union would rather the kids not have these benefits if that's the price for protecting the union. The union could adopt some of Moskowitz's methods and give the kids the best of both worlds. Oh yea. With unions there's no need or motive to innovate and be competitive.
The teacher's union would rather the kids not have these benefits if that's the price for protecting the union. The union could adopt some of Moskowitz's methods and give the kids the best of both worlds. Oh yea. With unions there's no need or motive to innovate and be competitive.
12
Disapline posture manners. For gods sake, THAT IS NOT THE TEACHERS JOB. where are the parents.
1
The next time you hear about the high test scores of students in Asia, think of this article because THIS is how they succeed: learning to test well, putting in 11-12 hour days of study a day, and being disciplined. South Korea just ended Saturday school the year I moved back to the US (2014) and many parents were up in arms.
NO ONE likes it...until they're making 6-figures and no longer in poverty. Life is harsh. At least these kids are being prepared for it.
NO ONE likes it...until they're making 6-figures and no longer in poverty. Life is harsh. At least these kids are being prepared for it.
8
Yes. Again look at Finland, polar opposite that is currently performing far better than SK. And SK system leads to everyone making six figures...as you state...then there is a fallacy in your argument, since most folks in SK don't make six figures in USD.
2
Insulting and belittling kids who perform differently from others. Now that's a great recipe for developing the individual.
Charter schools like Success feed at the public trough while public schools and their students and teachers are attacked by this profit-driven, right-wing juggernaut and are left to fend for themselves.
After reading this article, I don't want to cry like the teacher cited here, but I do feel quite nauseaous. Politicians without any sense of shame team up with ruthless carpetbaggers feeding from public schooling and all students.
Charter schools like Success feed at the public trough while public schools and their students and teachers are attacked by this profit-driven, right-wing juggernaut and are left to fend for themselves.
After reading this article, I don't want to cry like the teacher cited here, but I do feel quite nauseaous. Politicians without any sense of shame team up with ruthless carpetbaggers feeding from public schooling and all students.
19
Insulting and belittling kids who perform differently from others. Now that's a great recipe for developing the individual.
Yes and have seen what social promotions and esteem building have done for students not performing up to par.
Yes and have seen what social promotions and esteem building have done for students not performing up to par.
3
Hi, I am your neighbor in "hick" New Hampshire just north of you , and I couldn't disagree more with your comments. I guess that my"right wing" sensibilities overtook me, and I decided to send my artistically gifted 10-year old daughter to the conspiratorial arts-based charter school, as opposed to her struggling through the public school here (which is, by the way, one of the highest ranked school systems in the state). My daughter needs intensive arts education. See as a single mom, I only make below $300K, so the ritzy arts private school was not under serious consideration. The charter school is relatively small, resides in an older public school building that is not up to code so they have to relocate, and the predominantly female staff and studets are a happy and focused lot. My daughter now has 3x the amount of studio art time that she had in the public school, and amazingly, her attitude, grades, and outlook have vastly improved. Could it be that some students need specific educational environments to flourish? Perish the thought. Liberals must believe that all students must thrive in the "norm" setting that is designed to serve all, but may in fact be mediocre at best. I find it so interesting that liberals, who pride themselves on recognizing and cherishing individuality in all forms are acting in a draconian mindset regarding charter schools. Loosen up... specialized education is not just for the uber wealthy.
4
Heleneclare, liberals do NOT believe that all students must thrive in public schools. But we do believe it is disgusting for a charter school that is supposed to be educating at-risk students to instead weed out any and all of them who can't cut it. Their attitude is, if public shaming doesn't make a student into a "scholar", it is either because the child has special needs that "can't be met by our school" (i.e. encourage the parent to go elsewhere) or it means that the child is "bad" and just not trying hard enough. So those kids get returned to public school and such charters can crow about test scores and celebrate the largesse of billionaire donors. And what is most reprehensible is those charters then criticize the schools that educate the many at-risk students they leave behind. If you don't think that is shameless, then I do not understand how you can look in the mirror. Most at-risk students are in public schools being starved of funding thanks to the misleading rhetoric of Eva Moskowitz. If she actually wanted to educate the vast majority of them, it might be forgivable, but her actions speak far louder than her words. She chose to drop priority for any child zoned for a failing school. Talk about having "no excuses", but I suspect she will never be suspended from her school as many 5 and 6 year olds are.
3
Is there a reason they feel they have to embarrass children who don't do well? I have a feeling that years from now, some of these students will be doing stand-up routines about their SA teachers, just as we now hear routines about the nuns in Catholic school.
14
I don't necessarily have a problem with the tactics themselves. In my opinion, they seem harsh, but if that's what it takes to get children on track, that's what it takes. I think holding teachers accountable for their students' success to some degree is a good idea.
Instead, my problem with charter schools is primarily the self-selection issue. At a charter school, you end up with the kids who have proactive, interested parents, who don't move from place to place frequently - the opposite of the children who are most at risk. What about the kids whose parents don't invest in their education and didn't make an effort to try to get them into a charter school? What about the kids whose parents are struggling financially and who are taking new temporary jobs every couple of months and need to move in the middle of the school year? What about the kids whose parents take them out of charter schools after they've gotten suspended for the upteenth time? These are the kids who end up stuck in the public schools. You can't compare charter schools to public schools when they're not on an equal playing field. Public schools don't have the freedom to pick and choose which students can attend - they need to handle everybody.
If you want to have Success run all of New York's schools, that's fine by me. But public schools are only going to get worse if you're leaving them with all the at-risk students, and that creates (not destroys) inequality.
Instead, my problem with charter schools is primarily the self-selection issue. At a charter school, you end up with the kids who have proactive, interested parents, who don't move from place to place frequently - the opposite of the children who are most at risk. What about the kids whose parents don't invest in their education and didn't make an effort to try to get them into a charter school? What about the kids whose parents are struggling financially and who are taking new temporary jobs every couple of months and need to move in the middle of the school year? What about the kids whose parents take them out of charter schools after they've gotten suspended for the upteenth time? These are the kids who end up stuck in the public schools. You can't compare charter schools to public schools when they're not on an equal playing field. Public schools don't have the freedom to pick and choose which students can attend - they need to handle everybody.
If you want to have Success run all of New York's schools, that's fine by me. But public schools are only going to get worse if you're leaving them with all the at-risk students, and that creates (not destroys) inequality.
8
But parents with means have already self selected themselves out by moving away from areas with the failing public schools. I admire your idealism but until you put the entire US population in a giant lottery system and randomly assign them to public schools, you will always have self selection. Is it fair to force minority and disadvantaged kids to be in failing schools? Would you be willing to enroll your child in a school where only 1 in 20 kids can read or do math at grade level?
5
Maybe the answer is to set up separate schools for at-risk, disruptive students. That way they would not disrupt the students who actually want to learn. The problem will still be what to do with functionally illiterate high school graduates. But as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can not make his drink, so you can not make a student who does not value education learn how to read or do basic math.
2
Eva Moskowitz will NEVER acknowledge that her students are any different than the ones in failing public schools. She claims her students are chosen by lottery and Success Academy is happy to educate every student. You see, if she admits that she weeds out students, she is violating the regulations under which charter schools are legally obligated to follow. So instead what you see in the Success Academy "network" is that there are some schools with very few low-income students and the education there is far more "gentle" and forgiving of those affluent students (after all, they are far more likely to do well on standardized tests, although the ones who are troublesome may still be weeded out). And the Success Academy schools with mostly low-income students will continue with the kind of education described here, and any parent of a struggling student who doesn't want their child subjected to humiliation and frequent suspensions "voluntarily" withdraws. Why be dishonest about it? What happens if Eva Moskowitz ADMITS her schools aren't for many students, especially many at-risk students? What happens if Eva Moskowitz ADMITS that the millions in donations underwrite the education of those who remain? Why, that would be an argument for more funding for other public schools, and that is something her donors will never acknowledge.
2
Is Success Academy what Cuomo wants for ALL of New York State students?
Think about that, wealthy school districts. Do you want this type of instruction for "those children" and not for my child? Is this the model of that produced Steve Jobs, Alvin Ailey, Barack Obama, or even Andrew Cuomo? Should students be punished because of academic lapses by denying art, music or physical education? These and many other questions must be asked by politicians who have never spent time in a classroom beyond a photo opportunity.
Think about that, wealthy school districts. Do you want this type of instruction for "those children" and not for my child? Is this the model of that produced Steve Jobs, Alvin Ailey, Barack Obama, or even Andrew Cuomo? Should students be punished because of academic lapses by denying art, music or physical education? These and many other questions must be asked by politicians who have never spent time in a classroom beyond a photo opportunity.
15
Why are you asking politicians this question, why not ask the 10000 parents who put in applications? Apparently Eva does tell them upfront that if a culture of hardwork and high expectation is not their cup of tea, to not send their kids there.
5
Am I the only one uncomfortable with the racial undercurrents of Success Academy's model? We have a white head of schools, a white governor, and probably a largely white group of wealthy elites funding an institution that "teaches" mostly children of color by use of controlling and borderline dehumanizing tactics. Worse than the premise that these children need to be be forced into a militarized compliance is the implication that this is somehow a way to address all of the societal ills that put these inner-city kids in a disadvantaged position to begin with. I have an idea. If these methods are so great, why don't we institute them in all schools in the state, not just Success Academy? I'd love to see how the wealthy suburbanites outside the city would react to their students being publicly shamed for low test scores.
40
How sad that in 21st c some people still categorize people by their skin color.
2
I think offering children of color an educational system that doesn't deliver is much more racist.
3
Don't you know poor children deserve to be punished?
1
"But even if all those students stayed and continued to do poorly, Success schools would still significantly outperform their neighboring schools on tests."
Really?!
If I could "eject" just two poorly-behaved and low-scoring students from my classroom, the other 25 students would finally get to work in peace and quiet. Our productivity would sky-rocket, and I too would have a classroom of high scoring students. I know this because on the rare occasion when the "chaos-makers" are absent on the same day, it's an amazing learning day.
Instead, my bright, hard-working students are shortchanged because they go to a public school, i.e. a school where no one gets kicked out, ever. To compare their performance to that of those in a controlled environment is silly. How could these charter students NOT outperform them?
Oh, and Pennsylvania is also gearing up for our state tests, so my school, like many other urban schools, has been receiving the undesirable, off-loaded charter students in a flood for the last two months.
Really?!
If I could "eject" just two poorly-behaved and low-scoring students from my classroom, the other 25 students would finally get to work in peace and quiet. Our productivity would sky-rocket, and I too would have a classroom of high scoring students. I know this because on the rare occasion when the "chaos-makers" are absent on the same day, it's an amazing learning day.
Instead, my bright, hard-working students are shortchanged because they go to a public school, i.e. a school where no one gets kicked out, ever. To compare their performance to that of those in a controlled environment is silly. How could these charter students NOT outperform them?
Oh, and Pennsylvania is also gearing up for our state tests, so my school, like many other urban schools, has been receiving the undesirable, off-loaded charter students in a flood for the last two months.
18
What you describe is a huge advantage for charters. And it's really indicative of the lack of quality in charter schools that, even with that huge advantage, they usually don't outperform publics.
5
14% Suspension rate! I don't know how one can pretend to be handling students well when one has to suspend more than a tenth of them in a given year. By the way, I guess that a poor working parent is probably into trouble too when he or she has to miss work because of a suspension, which means it would make he or she less likely to enroll the child the following year... It might be a "nice" and convenient way too weed out students and get rid of those who fail to comform to this mindless discipline. Just saying.
Also, 20 years later, I wouldn't even say hello to my 1st grade teacher who wouldn't let me go to the toilet even when I was so closed to wet myself, and who would punish me for fidgeting in my seat. You know why? Because it was abuse.
Affluent parents would never allow a teacher to cause their kids to wet themselves for a test. In their choice of schools & tutors, they do care about "details" like well-being, self-esteem, creativity and intellectual curiosity. They also try to expose their children to foreign languages early, no matter whether it's on the state test. Just look at what the schools where Ms. Moskowitz's wealthy donnors and supporters send their children look like. There's a real hypocrisy there, between what they promote for the poor and what they practice.
Also, 20 years later, I wouldn't even say hello to my 1st grade teacher who wouldn't let me go to the toilet even when I was so closed to wet myself, and who would punish me for fidgeting in my seat. You know why? Because it was abuse.
Affluent parents would never allow a teacher to cause their kids to wet themselves for a test. In their choice of schools & tutors, they do care about "details" like well-being, self-esteem, creativity and intellectual curiosity. They also try to expose their children to foreign languages early, no matter whether it's on the state test. Just look at what the schools where Ms. Moskowitz's wealthy donnors and supporters send their children look like. There's a real hypocrisy there, between what they promote for the poor and what they practice.
19
The boys in the pictures look demoralized, rather frightening.
A friend taught at SA, was in his 30s. He was fired because he didn't like the treatment of the students.
He had no free time away from a 14 hour day, including travel. He was reprimanded for taking a walk during lunch, away from the insane asylum type programming of the teachers during his first year. He began having anxiety attacks. He emailed his principal that he needed a break from GB he abusive behaviors.
He was a black male and found the treatment of the majority black students inhumane.
He was fired.
Younger teachers, more easily programmed, seem to have no problems demoralizing students, watching students urinate on themselves, treating them like little controlled robots.
A friend taught at SA, was in his 30s. He was fired because he didn't like the treatment of the students.
He had no free time away from a 14 hour day, including travel. He was reprimanded for taking a walk during lunch, away from the insane asylum type programming of the teachers during his first year. He began having anxiety attacks. He emailed his principal that he needed a break from GB he abusive behaviors.
He was a black male and found the treatment of the majority black students inhumane.
He was fired.
Younger teachers, more easily programmed, seem to have no problems demoralizing students, watching students urinate on themselves, treating them like little controlled robots.
4
And still they get more class time and do better than their public school peers.Really makes you think, doesn't it.
I thought that about the little boys, too. Really, sitting with hands clasped? How do these young guys get their excess energy out? With that level of repression, I'm not surprised at the suspension rate. I wonder how many ADHD and dyslexic students end up in the public schools. That makes the charters' jobs easier, I'll bet. Cherry picking at its finest.
I am a proud SA parent in Manhattan.
SA offers a world-class education that competes directly with the best private schools in the country. The curriculum is open-ended and inquiry based. And, the curriculum is balanced and consistent across all teachers. You can't get a bad teacher. Project Based Learning units get the students on field trips monthly from farms to museums to plays to boats.
Teachers are also rigorously learning. Crafting the message and delivery is taught, practiced and honed. All teachers work on their masters in special education. Classroom management is stellar.
The structure and routines are there to keep the standards high, yes, but also the fun! Dance parties, crazy hat and hair day, crazy socks day, are regular events. Twice a month, there are class performances, dance competitions and rewards for such things as agency and curiosity. Kids get blocks everyday to work on social emotional development and creativity.
Finally, behavior management is positive and consistent across the school.
Our Manhattan public school was too punitive, inconsistent and active boys sat out of recess, had zero PE and were being pressured to take ADD medication.
Re testing: Compare 3rd and 5th grade tests to the 4th grade tests in the Manhattan public schools. The 4th grade tests are higher because parents pay for the tutors. At SA, they would not need tutors - they would have the peace of mind of a world class education that supports the whole child.
SA offers a world-class education that competes directly with the best private schools in the country. The curriculum is open-ended and inquiry based. And, the curriculum is balanced and consistent across all teachers. You can't get a bad teacher. Project Based Learning units get the students on field trips monthly from farms to museums to plays to boats.
Teachers are also rigorously learning. Crafting the message and delivery is taught, practiced and honed. All teachers work on their masters in special education. Classroom management is stellar.
The structure and routines are there to keep the standards high, yes, but also the fun! Dance parties, crazy hat and hair day, crazy socks day, are regular events. Twice a month, there are class performances, dance competitions and rewards for such things as agency and curiosity. Kids get blocks everyday to work on social emotional development and creativity.
Finally, behavior management is positive and consistent across the school.
Our Manhattan public school was too punitive, inconsistent and active boys sat out of recess, had zero PE and were being pressured to take ADD medication.
Re testing: Compare 3rd and 5th grade tests to the 4th grade tests in the Manhattan public schools. The 4th grade tests are higher because parents pay for the tutors. At SA, they would not need tutors - they would have the peace of mind of a world class education that supports the whole child.
12
You've swallowed and regurgitated the pamphlet nicely. Nobody's claiming charters don't have PR. But nobody who knows what they're talking about is saying any of the things you claim, either.
3
Would you like to send your child to a district school?
We're living it Eric not just talking about it. These claims come from our everyday experience.
3
Charter schools appear to be a process of privatization by stealth, by private for-profit corporations more than ready to produce higher test scores. (I said 'higher test scores', not 'better education'.) This is education on the business model, complete with CEOs and marketing departments (not to mention lobbyists).
De-coupling school funding from the real estate industry and raising it from the city to the state level, as well as giving working parents a living wage so that their kids can start their days better fed would be far more productive steps IMO.
Seems education is just not a priority for the US taxpayer. This busy-work exercise has 'failing grade' written all over it.
De-coupling school funding from the real estate industry and raising it from the city to the state level, as well as giving working parents a living wage so that their kids can start their days better fed would be far more productive steps IMO.
Seems education is just not a priority for the US taxpayer. This busy-work exercise has 'failing grade' written all over it.
11
"De-coupling school funding from the real estate industry and raising it from the city to the state level, as well as giving working parents a living wage so that their kids can start their days better fed would be far more productive steps IMO."
Exactly! That's what one of my education professors said years ago. Realtors love "white" or "middle class" flight to churn up new sales. The community college where I teach is in an older suburb that used to have top-notch public schools. Now the more affluent are moving farther away.
We should have desegregated housing before we touched schools. Instead, one of our outer suburbs--Folsom, California--eliminated its affordable housing requirement. Might as well just put up walls and hire armed guards.
Exactly! That's what one of my education professors said years ago. Realtors love "white" or "middle class" flight to churn up new sales. The community college where I teach is in an older suburb that used to have top-notch public schools. Now the more affluent are moving farther away.
We should have desegregated housing before we touched schools. Instead, one of our outer suburbs--Folsom, California--eliminated its affordable housing requirement. Might as well just put up walls and hire armed guards.
1
One of the biggest issues facing public education today is how to overcome inequalities in children's home lives ... income, education level of the parents, number of parents in the home, etc. . It appears SA may have a formula for overcoming these inequalities.
4
The methods used to create these superior test takers are defended so that students will have opportunities to attend top middle or high schools and to receive scholarships to private schools. Where are the figures to support this claim?
2
When was the last time an illiterate student was accepted at a college with scholarship ? Or any college, period. Instead of criticizing SA, which isn't perfect, because no school is, a more relevant question to ask seems to be whether it is am improvement over status quo.
2
A closer read of the article may be in order, as those figures are splattered throughout.
1
In the first eighth grade graduating class for SA not one student got into any of the elite NYC public schools. Not one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/gonzalez-success-charter-s...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/gonzalez-success-charter-s...
1
There's no question this charter school company has one thing right. Without order, you cannot educate.
Order. Great teachers.
I am waiting for the day when the public purse realizes that it's not the physical plant, it's not fancy football stadiums that make a school succeed. It's parents and teachers. We used to get our teachers practically for free because smart, intellectual women had so few choices for an independent career. Now, many of those talented women go into law or medicine or finance.
We need a grand bargain, where pay goes up year by year to where it's at least something like 2/3 of other professional salaries. The other half is that people who were never cut out to be teachers have to be on notice. I don't care if this only applies to new hires, but it has to be easier to fire a bad teacher. Again this doesn't work except as a grand bargain.
Too many times, I hear politicians railing against teachers and calling for more state-mandated lessons and more testing. I always ask myself what they are trying to achieve. Remember, the objective is to hire and keep good teachers!
Order. Great teachers.
I am waiting for the day when the public purse realizes that it's not the physical plant, it's not fancy football stadiums that make a school succeed. It's parents and teachers. We used to get our teachers practically for free because smart, intellectual women had so few choices for an independent career. Now, many of those talented women go into law or medicine or finance.
We need a grand bargain, where pay goes up year by year to where it's at least something like 2/3 of other professional salaries. The other half is that people who were never cut out to be teachers have to be on notice. I don't care if this only applies to new hires, but it has to be easier to fire a bad teacher. Again this doesn't work except as a grand bargain.
Too many times, I hear politicians railing against teachers and calling for more state-mandated lessons and more testing. I always ask myself what they are trying to achieve. Remember, the objective is to hire and keep good teachers!
12
Some of these commenters are asking why are we "gutting" public schools for this. Actually public schools are gutting themselves and self-destructing from unfunded pension liabilities and greedy teachers' unions. Note how Success Academy does not give teachers DB pensions and always has plentiful supplies in the supply cabinets.
7
...because she gets funding that would be much better spent on public schools, where teachers make (on average) about 60% of what comparable workers are paid and still get called "greedy."
10
Eric, if you take into account the number of days worked and retirement benefits, they're paid just fine. And let's not forget about tenure.
Eric, no one would begrudge teachers in district schools (note that charters are public schools, too--you may be confused because their success rates would probably make them unrecognizable as such) the most exorbitant salaries if they educated our children.
1
Success Academy is a creature of American Education system. This country and the society is looking for highest performing individuals and nothing else.
1
Where is the outrage? Mentioned almost casually is that 29% of NYC public school students pass the reading & 35% pass the math exams. More than 71% of students fail one or more state level exams. We need more "controversial" schools. Not less. These numbers should are a disgrace.
12
They are a disgrace. But those scores mostly reflect out-of-school factors, and that's where our shame should be focused.
Even in those largely-failing populations, there are some kids doing well. All Moskowitz does is group them together and take credit for the out-of-school factors causing them to do so. That's what "successful" charters do, while public schools offer better instruction, but they offer it to everyone. We don't need more charters. They're usually a scam.
Even in those largely-failing populations, there are some kids doing well. All Moskowitz does is group them together and take credit for the out-of-school factors causing them to do so. That's what "successful" charters do, while public schools offer better instruction, but they offer it to everyone. We don't need more charters. They're usually a scam.
7
Eric, these kids are from the same background. The disparity is so pathetic that it can't be explained or excused away. And the better instruction you offer certainly doesn't translate to meaningful results.
2
We don't need "controversial" schools that take very few of the students who are failing the state tests and far more of the students who are passing. The best evidence that Eva Moskowitz' program was not working for the vast majority of at-risk students is that she STOPPED giving them priority! Let's face it, it's hard to educate a school full of at-risk students, as failing public schools well know. We looked to Success Academy for answers, and instead they had none, except returning so many students to the public schools because they just weren't trying hard enough. Her choice to open so many schools in wealthy neighborhoods speaks volumes. Her choice to drop lottery priority for students zoned for failing public schools speaks volumes. Why waste money trying to educate at-risk students when you can use your millions to market to affluent students instead, and change your lottery preferences so that those affluent students can attend schools without too many low-income students. No matter how you slice it, ACTIONS speak far louder than all the rhetoric in the world.
If I offer you a job that's stastically likely to make you a slightly more productive worker, but you will also be joyless and humiliated while doing it, would you take it?
Me, neither. Why would we do that to little kids?
Insanity.
Me, neither. Why would we do that to little kids?
Insanity.
12
Better to stick them in failing schools. Right.
6
The approach taken by these schools, as described in the article, has been around for a long time and shown to be very successful in educating a broad populace to a high level -- you will see it in Japan, Taiwan and Korea, and elsewhere. It works well and will likely rub many in the wrong way because it does not fit into mainstream American culture. But it is clear that the winners here will be the kids, who will grow up to be tough, educated and strong contributors to society.
Cultures rise and fall. Bravo to these schools for bucking the trend of American decline.
Cultures rise and fall. Bravo to these schools for bucking the trend of American decline.
9
Please don't forget to mention the suicide rate among Japanese high schoolers and college kids...
10
There is a terrible misunderstanding on the part of many that American public schools are in decline. This is simply untrue. American public school students who attend a school where fewer than 10% of the children are in poverty outperform students in any other country in the world. We don't have a failing school problem, we have a poverty problem. Those countries you mention simply do no have children living in poverty, whereas we have 25% poverty rate among children. And, for what it's worth, Asian countries are beginning to doubt their own cultural model. China in particular is interested in reforming its test mill school culture because the government realizes that they are failing to produce innovators and creative thinkers.
4
These schools are successful because they are aiming their efforts at the system that is in place to evaluate them. If students and schools are going to be judged solely by test scores, then every student and every teacher must live and breathe nothing but test scores. It's our decision whether we want a system that relies on tests as the definition of learning and education. If we do not, we have to change the system. No one can blame "the network" for adapting to the system that is already set up.
5
Tell me, what are traditional public school teachers, who presumably are not teaching to the test, doing that's so great? Traditional public school teachers and their apologists might have a leg to stand on if the disparity in test scores weren't so embarrassingly high. If it's so easy to teach to the test, then why not just do it if only to shut the critics up.
1
But we can blame the network for weeding out the most difficult to teach students. And then misleading the public by pretending that every school should be able to match its results, because the only students who leave, leave "voluntarily".
If Success Academy COULD get these results with those students included, then that begs the question as to why, with all their millions in donations, they are weeding out those students? Keep them. Educate them. Help them. Pretending that a low-income 5 year or 6 year old deserves a suspension because he is just not trying hard enough is truly reprehensible. Pretending that a child is "bad" because he acts out after being humiliated over and over again? Truly sickening.
If Success Academy COULD get these results with those students included, then that begs the question as to why, with all their millions in donations, they are weeding out those students? Keep them. Educate them. Help them. Pretending that a low-income 5 year or 6 year old deserves a suspension because he is just not trying hard enough is truly reprehensible. Pretending that a child is "bad" because he acts out after being humiliated over and over again? Truly sickening.
2
These tactics would never be allowed at any school serving white, middle-class children. That we condone such punitive and unpalatable methods for schools serving poor children of color does not reflect well on us, nor on our underlying beliefs about what class and race. The test scores may be high, but these schools are not preparing children for creative, collaborative work, original research, or critical thinking. All that's being promoted are rote skills and regimented behavior.
16
Whether those tactics would be allowed at any school serving white, middle-class children should be up to the parents of said white, middle-class children.
Shouldn't the parents of the kids at SA, not privileged moralizers, get to decide what kind of education their kids ought to have?
Shouldn't the parents of the kids at SA, not privileged moralizers, get to decide what kind of education their kids ought to have?
3
Look at the faces of the children -- not one is smiling. How can this possibly be good?
12
Teacher turnover rates above 50% . . . 11 hour work days and no union benefits . . . yet another way to harm the teaching profession and continue the dismantling of public education in the United States.
17
STUDENT turnover rates above 50%. But only in their schools that serve many low-income students. Yet another way to harm at-risk students and continue to starve the schools that do educate them of much needed funding.
Photos in newspapers rarely represent the actual moment. Often, hundreds of pictures are taken and only one chosen. Did the editors use the one picture where the children aren't smiling?
So there are only two choices--brutalize children or condemn them to a life of failure?
Seriously.
It honestly sounds like the expectations in SA are what we had on the old plantations. A population that learned to follow instructions obediently and were well-trained for the limited tasks assigned to them...and always with the threat of dire consequences for stepping out of line.
And just because many black parents are enthusiastic about strict regimentation does not make it healthy.
"Discipline" and "punishment" are not synonyms.
And all you Catholic school grads sharing stories of how scary it was in THOSE halls--lots of you went through years of rebellion and some serious life dysfunction after eight or ten years of being terrified by battle-ax nuns...
Seriously.
It honestly sounds like the expectations in SA are what we had on the old plantations. A population that learned to follow instructions obediently and were well-trained for the limited tasks assigned to them...and always with the threat of dire consequences for stepping out of line.
And just because many black parents are enthusiastic about strict regimentation does not make it healthy.
"Discipline" and "punishment" are not synonyms.
And all you Catholic school grads sharing stories of how scary it was in THOSE halls--lots of you went through years of rebellion and some serious life dysfunction after eight or ten years of being terrified by battle-ax nuns...
20
What do you really know about Catholic schools? Do you tealize that most Catholic schools in NY have not had nuns in teaching positions since the 1980's and yet they still excell. How does that fit with your stereotyping?
5
In Hawaii, parochial schools were a relatively cheap refuge from a struggling public school system. And, of course, no corporal punishment.
SCA, if you had good information on Catholic schools, it's nearly half a century out-of-date.
SCA, if you had good information on Catholic schools, it's nearly half a century out-of-date.
And they also get quite superior results without using bathroom breaks as a disciplining tool. But then again, they are not held to the same standards and subject to the same administrative limitations as public schools, and don't enroll as many special ed students.
1
Test, test, test, and then prepare for the next test. This is an education? I wouldn't let a child of mine near one of these places.
16
Here in Texas there's been some rebellion against all of the testing. Teachers say and many parents believe that there is significant class time being taken to "teach to the test".
The Legislature talks about rolling back some of what they've instituted (a sign people are complaining), but I am waiting to see it happen.
The Legislature talks about rolling back some of what they've instituted (a sign people are complaining), but I am waiting to see it happen.
6
Thankfully no one 'has to'. And if you happen to live on one of these neighborhoods, you also have the choice of enrolling your child in the school right next door to SA, where less than 5% kids are reading at grade level.
2
You might if the only other choice available to you was worse. That's the problem.
The structure provided is a good thing. Minus the test pressure and the public shaming and this would be a great program.
7
Gonzalez: Students of much-touted Success Academy charter school score too low on entrance exam for top city high schools
The founding class of Harlem Success Academy 1 graduated on Friday. The class started with 73 enrolled first-grade students in August 2006, but 32 students were at graduation. And none of the students, who are either black or Latino, got high enough scores test for top high schools.
The founding class of Harlem Success Academy 1 graduated on Friday. The class started with 73 enrolled first-grade students in August 2006, but 32 students were at graduation. And none of the students, who are either black or Latino, got high enough scores test for top high schools.
16
So what you're saying is that, when they take tests where Moskowitz or her cronies actually have access to the testing materials, the scores are stellar, but when those testing materials AREN'T in the hands of charter employees, not so much?
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
14
Doesn't this belie the criticism that charter schools just take the best students and dump the rest on the the public school system? Also you have a handful of charters going up against hundreds of traditional public schools. No one is saying public schools don't turn out some excellent students and the fact that there are more public schools will mean they will have more excellent students. If charters are turning out kids who rank in the 90th percentile in reading and math, that's an accomplishment no matter what high school they go to.
2
You would think that at least one the goals would be to sign them up for the subsidized test prep offered for select public school students. Strange.
There are no magic solutions in education. Teaching a child is a lifelong journey. You cannot turn around a school overnight. You may have a bump in student performance for a little while, but progress will stagnate shortly there after. Furthermore parents should stop seeing schools as a cleaners, you leave your kid in the morning dirty, and you expect to pick him up in the afternoon clean and ready. I have seen vendettas against school principals led by parent advocates. They have no educational vision for the school, just a personal agenda. It's devastating how even at public schools that are above 800 points some parents are creating a toxic environment. If they devoted the same energy to helping their kids, we would have a different picture. The charter school movement is not offering a real choice, just a leap of faith. They have powerful allies and great P.R. However, they do not represent a better alternative. We only see stories in the news about the successful ones ,like Success Academy, we never see any articles on the under performing ones. We do, on the other hand, see unending reports on under performing public schools. Talk about bias.
3
Just the fact that you see lots of positive profiles of single, successful charter schools and lots of articles about how public schools are failing isn't indicative of bias.
Of course, the "successful" charter are rarer than those that do worse than the public schools they're supposed to "compete" with. And the greatest number of charters has results that aren't notably different from public schools, despite the fact that the charters can pick and choose which students to accept while the publics have to take all comers, which means those charters are likely doing a worse job, as well. And publics, all things considered, aren't really failing--most of them are doing very well, outcomes have been trending up for all groups for decades, and in the places where things aren't going so well, those are usually problems brought into the schools, not problems in the schools themselves.
Given all THAT, yeah, the fact that you'd get the impression that charters are good and publics aren't from reading the NYTimes's education coverage (as well as that of most media outlets) is pretty much definitive proof of bias.
Of course, the "successful" charter are rarer than those that do worse than the public schools they're supposed to "compete" with. And the greatest number of charters has results that aren't notably different from public schools, despite the fact that the charters can pick and choose which students to accept while the publics have to take all comers, which means those charters are likely doing a worse job, as well. And publics, all things considered, aren't really failing--most of them are doing very well, outcomes have been trending up for all groups for decades, and in the places where things aren't going so well, those are usually problems brought into the schools, not problems in the schools themselves.
Given all THAT, yeah, the fact that you'd get the impression that charters are good and publics aren't from reading the NYTimes's education coverage (as well as that of most media outlets) is pretty much definitive proof of bias.
3
Again with this PR nonsense. To the extent that have PR it's to counter the negative smears from union bosses and their paid lackeys. Beyond that, having 90% of their students reading at or above grade level is the only PR they need.
It's frustrating to read so many comments criticizing SA's method of education. Yes, it is rigid and yes, it teaches to the test, but like it or not, the test exists. Like it or not, those scores open up myriad opportunities.
Those decrying how SA turns these kids into test-taking robots, seem to imagine an alternative where the kids are free to discover their life-long passions, learn to "think-outside-the-box", (insert educational buzzword)...
But we are talking about single-digit passing rates here! On basic elementary math and reading no less. Where parents have to choose between putting food on the table or being involved in their child's education. Where a child learns nothing because there is no discipline in the classroom and expectations are non-existent. The negative comments fail to understand this context. They are luxurious complaints.
SA is not perfect, but it sure is doing something valuable.
Those decrying how SA turns these kids into test-taking robots, seem to imagine an alternative where the kids are free to discover their life-long passions, learn to "think-outside-the-box", (insert educational buzzword)...
But we are talking about single-digit passing rates here! On basic elementary math and reading no less. Where parents have to choose between putting food on the table or being involved in their child's education. Where a child learns nothing because there is no discipline in the classroom and expectations are non-existent. The negative comments fail to understand this context. They are luxurious complaints.
SA is not perfect, but it sure is doing something valuable.
12
The tests SA kids do well on don't open up any doors at all. They've got no consequences for kids, and are only used to evaluate schools (which is a purpose for which they're useless, and for which no informed people recommends using them, but that's a digression).
The tests that would open doors for the SA kids are the tests to get into selective high schools. They bomb those.
Interestingly enough, SA personnel have access to the testing materials for the tests their students do well on, and don't have that access for the tests they do poorly on.
I think public schools should have more power to shield good students from the sometimes disruptive behavior of their classmates. I think they should stop short of intentionally causing misery or forcing kids to break potty-training for testing. I also think they should have access to the resources currently siphoned off to educational scam schools that can only make themselves look good by picking and choosing which student scores they want to take credit for and sending those they don't want back to the publics.
The tests that would open doors for the SA kids are the tests to get into selective high schools. They bomb those.
Interestingly enough, SA personnel have access to the testing materials for the tests their students do well on, and don't have that access for the tests they do poorly on.
I think public schools should have more power to shield good students from the sometimes disruptive behavior of their classmates. I think they should stop short of intentionally causing misery or forcing kids to break potty-training for testing. I also think they should have access to the resources currently siphoned off to educational scam schools that can only make themselves look good by picking and choosing which student scores they want to take credit for and sending those they don't want back to the publics.
4
Andrew: But even that single-minded devotion to test-taking has not resulted in even one SA child passing the NYC specialized HS exam. So all that agony got them nowhere. Those high schools are the Golden Road for children of ability whose families are of modest means. If they can't get into those schools, do you think they are going to get into--or succeed in--elite colleges?
1
Traditional public district schools are an embarrassment to our nation.
I have worked in a "co-location" school with a Success Academy program. I have seen Success Academy teachers scream in the face of small children for who knows what reason, I have seen a Success Academy teacher dragging a child down the hallway by his clothing, I have seen a Success Academy teacher grabbing a child by his arm and wrestling him in order to stop the child from running down a set of stairs. What did this teacher say when he saw me at the entrance to the stairway, " Don't go down there! It's not safe!"
19
People seem to be selectively blocking out information from this article. For example, there are a lot of criticisms about Success Academy's singular focus on test prep. However, the article actually mentioned SA has curricular activities like art, music, chess, theater, basketball, and swimming.
I'm not advocating SA, because I don't know all that much about it. However, it seems to me much of the negative reaction is based less in facts and more on preconceptions.
I'm not advocating SA, because I don't know all that much about it. However, it seems to me much of the negative reaction is based less in facts and more on preconceptions.
3
Charter schools have been claiming that charter schools in New York City outperform the public schools. The charters fail to mention the advantages enjoyed by the charters. Here is a simple proposal to make charter schools real public schools. When a charter opens up, let the school district run the lottery. Whatever percentage of student that are level one, two, three and four in the district will be picked in the lottery and enrolled in the school. Also, an equal number of English Language Learners, Special Education and special needs students proportional to the percentage in the district will be enrolled. The students that are chosen cannot be kicked out for behavioral issues. If a student is chosen in the lottery and the parent doesn’t want the student to attend the charter then the next child from the lottery in that student’s designation will be chosen. Here is how it would work. Charter X is opening a middle school. The school will start with 120 6th graders the first year. The charter gets the same percentage of levels 1-2-3-4 as the district. The charter receives the same percentage of ELLs and SPED students and the same percentage of students that qualify for free lunches. There is no turning students away or counseling them out, a charter school euphemism for kicking out a troublesome student. My proposal is fair and will level the playing field. Then we can see if charters schools are outperforming public schools and formulate a policy based on that.
13
About the orderliness: I began kindergarten in 1960. Throughout my grade-school years we lined up paired in two lines of girls and boys in size order. I was short and always second or third in line. In class at our desks we were expected to be quiet. Later in junior high and high school we were also expected to be quiet in class. Sure, there were lively discussions - and some note passing - but nothing remotely like what goes on in classrooms today where kids are literally having conversations with each other and looking at phones while the teacher is talking. This was public school, and I don't recall the atmosphere as militaristic. We even at times had to sit quietly with hands folded - perhaps when the teacher felt we needed to settle down. Of course there was recess and a nice big playground to run around in and let off steam. I give Success credit for trying to create something like what was once considered the norm.
8
Demeaning children for their performance on tests and regimenting their behaviors all day long in not only abusive but prevents children from developing the essential sense of self efficacy that leads to setting and achieving personal goals. A recent study found strategies like those at Success Academy diminish the most important attribute of citizens in a democracy--civic engagement. While test taking and achieving are Moskowitz's explicit goal; the implicit one is to disempower children of color and deny them the skills they need to engage critically in dialogue and action, to take responsibility for one's achievements, to play an important role as a citizen in a democracy, and to be free.
8
I am horrified after reading about this charter chain. Ms. Moskowitz is punitive. Those who are hurt are students, teachers, and parents. Taxpayers are hurt and public school communities are hurt. It's time to close this charter chain down.
7
I applaud Success Academy. While some of the techniques may seem harsh, the reality is this: kids know full well when they are not making an effort. When adults praise everyone equally, kids simply think the adults are fools and that there is no point in trying. The students I teach in community college consistently write that their elementary and high school educations were "a joke." If they had gone to Success Academy, they wouldn't believe this.
There's one issue the article touched on only briefly. The students in these charter schools have parents who care deeply about their kids' education, even if they themselves are not well educated. This alone makes an enormous difference in outcomes. Unfortunately, this is why Success Academy's approach can't be extended to all public schools. Parents who don't care if their kids are failing or misbehaving will not be partners in making the approach work. But we should save the kids who can be saved, and Success Academy is doing that. Keep up the good work!
There's one issue the article touched on only briefly. The students in these charter schools have parents who care deeply about their kids' education, even if they themselves are not well educated. This alone makes an enormous difference in outcomes. Unfortunately, this is why Success Academy's approach can't be extended to all public schools. Parents who don't care if their kids are failing or misbehaving will not be partners in making the approach work. But we should save the kids who can be saved, and Success Academy is doing that. Keep up the good work!
8
I am a teacher at Success Academy. This is my first year with this organization and I have been teaching for 4 years. I love how hard we work for kids. I have a son and I could only wish that his teachers will one day care deeply about his education and stay late/come early to school for him. When I was a kid I WISH that I had a real relationship with my teachers. These kids call and text me on the weekend. Tell me about their lives and their hardships. We cry together, laugh together, play together and work really hard together. This article is overly negative and I agree that some things are correct, but these schools are different. We expect more and the kids give more. I don't put them through anything that I don't think they can truly handle. We hold them accountable, but above all we support them. Eva believes so much in the Success' Methods that she sends her own kids to school there. Trust me as a parent this is a big step. Yes, no school is perfect! But in terms of results, genuine grit and determination from staff and students, Success takes the cake. Only time will tell if these kids actually grow and use the tools that they have learned here to become contributing members of our society.
13
People take tests throughout their professional lives. The very real skill of successfully taking a test is worth learning.
7
This is true, but only for tests that are valid.
The article makes clear that struggling students, not just discipline problems, are treated harshly. Children do not learn at the same level or using one particular method. Struggling students need support, not ridicule. They need an atmosphere where they can learn at their own pace and not feel stupid. However the Reformers made it all about the test instead of all about the child. To belittle a good boy or girl who needs more support is disgusting. To take away fun activities just because they are struggling with the material is criminal.
25
And this is what we are gutting our public schools for?
13
Absolutely. Any "school" that can't get more than 20% proficiency in math or english should be shut down. Kids would be better served sitting home and watching telemundo.
2
The first Success Academy, Harlem 1, had just 32 students graduate 8th grade When they started first grade in August 2006, those pupils were among 73 enrolled at the school. That means less than half the original group reached the eighth grade. None of the 32 grads, however, will be attending any of the city’s eight elite public high schools, even though Harlem Success Academy 1 ranked in the top 1% on state math tests this year and in the top 5% in reading
27 eighth-graders took the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test last fall, but none scored high enough to be offered a seat at one of the elite high schools that rely on the test, like Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech or Bronx Science.Citywide, some 26,000 eighth-graders took the specialized high schools test in the fall of 2012, and 20% were offered a seat. So you’d expect a minimum of five or six students from Success 1 to score high enough to get into one of the elite schools. So despite all her bravado, Eva couldn't get even one of her "scholars" into the top ranked high schools. Yet she recently got a raise to $565,000. And she calls Success a public school. Thanks to Juan Gonzalez for some of the info in this post.
27 eighth-graders took the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test last fall, but none scored high enough to be offered a seat at one of the elite high schools that rely on the test, like Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech or Bronx Science.Citywide, some 26,000 eighth-graders took the specialized high schools test in the fall of 2012, and 20% were offered a seat. So you’d expect a minimum of five or six students from Success 1 to score high enough to get into one of the elite schools. So despite all her bravado, Eva couldn't get even one of her "scholars" into the top ranked high schools. Yet she recently got a raise to $565,000. And she calls Success a public school. Thanks to Juan Gonzalez for some of the info in this post.
27
Many readers here decry that this charter school is providing the students test taking skills, not an actual education; that rich kids get to go on field trips while these students are stuck in test prep purgatory. Well, I think it is time for a reality check: what is the purpose of schools today? Are they here to stimulate the mind, encourage creative thinking and provide "an actual education" or are they here to help students find success later in life? (i.e. Finding jobs, becoming financially independent)
I see the approach and the focus on testing at (aptly named) Success Academy as a younger cousin to the job prep attitude we now find at many colleges. Sure, we need to care about helping kids to learn for learning's sake. But meanwhile education institutions increasingly serve as job training facilities and job securing agencies. For kids from well off background, they can afford the luxury of exploration in academics. One bad test score won't close too many doors. For everyone else, who has few opportunity in social mobility besides through academic success, perhaps this level of effort is warranted? Testing well is the grade school equivalent of padding the resume for your first job.
It is disconcerting to see that today's economic pressure reaches so far down to even kids in elementary school. But it is real. Real learning is important but so is economic survival. As a society, we cannot afford to be idealistic. It is these kid's future lives on our hands.
I see the approach and the focus on testing at (aptly named) Success Academy as a younger cousin to the job prep attitude we now find at many colleges. Sure, we need to care about helping kids to learn for learning's sake. But meanwhile education institutions increasingly serve as job training facilities and job securing agencies. For kids from well off background, they can afford the luxury of exploration in academics. One bad test score won't close too many doors. For everyone else, who has few opportunity in social mobility besides through academic success, perhaps this level of effort is warranted? Testing well is the grade school equivalent of padding the resume for your first job.
It is disconcerting to see that today's economic pressure reaches so far down to even kids in elementary school. But it is real. Real learning is important but so is economic survival. As a society, we cannot afford to be idealistic. It is these kid's future lives on our hands.
11
so what - now the complaint is there's too much learning going on and not enough field trips? progressives will come up with anything to undermine what is clearly working because their union paymasters demand it.
This is horrific. It is not idealistic to educate children and to enable them to be creative.
Bravo! Success Academy. Here's wishing you future success! The way in which this country will break the cycle of poverty and hopelessness among lower socio-economic groups of all ethnicities will be through education- demanding, rigorous education that actually hold students accountable- as well as teachers. These types of strict and demanding standards is what is needed in our public schools to bring them up to the standards we have a right to expect for all the money we pour into them.
16
It's more like boot camp than a school. The only thing missing is corporeal punishment, which has been replaced by public shaming. How many of the kids would open a book in their free time? How many of them go on to the Bronx High School of Science? The School of Performing Arts? Those kids probably got kicked out after acting up due to extreme boredom with their joyless diet of multiple choice tests. Here's hoping the article is hugely biased because the description of Success Academy left a bad taste in my mouth, along with the pictures - is the school segregated?.
7
Let's be frank here. How many rich white people would send their children to a school such as this? Did everyone else answer "zero"?
Only poor minority children are expected to be thankful for the "opportunity" to attend a school that uses public shaming as punishment. A school that deliberately inflicts "misery" on anyone who fails to obey its draconian rules, or who doesn't learn fast enough to please her teacher. A school that pretty obviously builds its high test scores on a program of eliminating as many students as possible before they can take it.
I do not believe that the best way to fix public schools is to replace them with these ersatz prisons. Clearly the powers that be don't either, because they gladly spend enormous sums to put their children into pedagogical environments that are as close to the opposite of Success Academy as humanly possible.
Only poor minority children are expected to be thankful for the "opportunity" to attend a school that uses public shaming as punishment. A school that deliberately inflicts "misery" on anyone who fails to obey its draconian rules, or who doesn't learn fast enough to please her teacher. A school that pretty obviously builds its high test scores on a program of eliminating as many students as possible before they can take it.
I do not believe that the best way to fix public schools is to replace them with these ersatz prisons. Clearly the powers that be don't either, because they gladly spend enormous sums to put their children into pedagogical environments that are as close to the opposite of Success Academy as humanly possible.
16
As someone who is neither white nor particularly rich, and someone who has worked with low-income people almost my entire adult life, I would point out that low-income kids aren't going to grow up with the same safety nets rich white kids do. I grew up as an immigrant kid. A lot of what passes for "education" among wealthy white kids in the suburb I grew up in are really luxuries. Many of those experiences are wonderful, but for a low-income kid looking for a way out of poverty, I don't think they are the most essential.
I don't know if SA's way is the best way to achieve this, but for low-income kids the most realistic way out of poverty is higher education and getting into a professional career. Employers and university admissions people can talk about "well-rounded candidates" all day, but at the end of the day standardized tests and grades are the few areas where a poor, minority kid can level the playing field.
I don't know if SA's way is the best way to achieve this, but for low-income kids the most realistic way out of poverty is higher education and getting into a professional career. Employers and university admissions people can talk about "well-rounded candidates" all day, but at the end of the day standardized tests and grades are the few areas where a poor, minority kid can level the playing field.
8
It seems to me that this model either works or it doesn't. If it works, we should be moving heaven, earth, ossified public school administrators and ossified unions (the last two are harder than the first two, most likely) to implement it in every school, district wide, yesterday. If the answer is that the model only works with kids from motivated families, or only works if the schools can be selective (which I thought charters weren't supposed to, but I know they find ways, and they can expel or counsel kids out), then we need to implement it where we can and find another model that works where it doesn't.
There are some things that I can argue about in the approach of the school that is profiled in the story. For example it appears that they have no requirement to accommodate even a mild physical handicap. I would not have made it there because I could not as a kid and still cannot sit cross legged on the floor. However, I would agree with another commenter that there is less shaming and mindless regimentation than many adult Catholic school graduates reading this (myself included) endured.
There are some things that I can argue about in the approach of the school that is profiled in the story. For example it appears that they have no requirement to accommodate even a mild physical handicap. I would not have made it there because I could not as a kid and still cannot sit cross legged on the floor. However, I would agree with another commenter that there is less shaming and mindless regimentation than many adult Catholic school graduates reading this (myself included) endured.
4
"It seems to me that this model either works or it doesn't. If it works, we should be moving heaven, earth, ossified public school administrators and ossified unions (the last two are harder than the first two, most likely) "
I has been said that the greatest force in the universe is sheer bureaucratic inertia.
I has been said that the greatest force in the universe is sheer bureaucratic inertia.
2
By "Superior Results" the writer means test scores, not children wetting their pants or showing other signs of distress. Would any middle class family allow their children to be treated so inhumanely? Success Academy appears to be exploiting the desperation of lower-income Black families by abusing their children in the name of education. And the kids still don't pass the exam for the specialized high schools. Pathetic.
12
Mixed feelings. Admittedly you can be so strict and demanding that students and teachers just give up hope.
On the other, a phrase from, I believe it was Daniel Patrick Moynihan, keeps echoing: 'the soft bigotry of low expectations'. I don't think it's unique to the lower-income and disadvantaged, either. I think it manifests itself once students get to those 'elite' colleges, where grade inflation, education as a consumer commodity, and permissive rules replacing in loco parentis, combined with helicopter parenting, send the message that 'from those to whom much is given, as little as possible shall be expected'.
On the other, a phrase from, I believe it was Daniel Patrick Moynihan, keeps echoing: 'the soft bigotry of low expectations'. I don't think it's unique to the lower-income and disadvantaged, either. I think it manifests itself once students get to those 'elite' colleges, where grade inflation, education as a consumer commodity, and permissive rules replacing in loco parentis, combined with helicopter parenting, send the message that 'from those to whom much is given, as little as possible shall be expected'.
6
Training a bunch of "good little soldiers" to drone away in the Bill Gates empire. Tax abatements and job training funds weren't enough, he had to have the funding for the entire public school system.
7
Even if this cohort needs to be treated this way to get 'results', should we be doing this?
2
Everyone here seems obsessed with the focus on test scores. It has been years since I have been in school. But I never seem to have taken a test that the material wasn't taught. My daughter has a Math test on Chapter 10 tommorrow. Guess what we are going to study chapter ten. Look at the homework and take the test and hopefully do well. Are we studying for the test - you bet ya. Same goes for history, spelling etc.
I looked thru the comments - I didn't see any negative comments from parents. But again what do the parents know. I just read a NYT article so now I am informed. Jeez those parents know nothing.
My only other thought from all the other comments was that I didn't know that the public school system in NYC produces all of these creative high tech entrepreneurs compared to the SA. I didn't know all these schools were MIT. Nothing wrong here.
I looked thru the comments - I didn't see any negative comments from parents. But again what do the parents know. I just read a NYT article so now I am informed. Jeez those parents know nothing.
My only other thought from all the other comments was that I didn't know that the public school system in NYC produces all of these creative high tech entrepreneurs compared to the SA. I didn't know all these schools were MIT. Nothing wrong here.
8
Not one SA student was admitted to one of the specialized high schools. The state exams that rule everything are not like the tests you and I took on school. The questions don't necessarily match the curriculum. The tests are poorly written and highly subjective and designed so most students fail. Test prep education focuses mostly on a narrow range of skills and don't ask students to think, just regurgitate what is in the reading passages.
The "teaching" methods described here are disgusting. Any parent who would sign on to that system needs to think hard about whether these means justify the ends.
8
ok tell that to the 18000 parents that got shut out, and also have a word with the 2000+ parents who consider themselves lucky for having gotten in.
1
Hmm, Gloria, let's think about this for a sec... A poor single mom could Send her kids to a failing school that barely educates 20% of the student body to grade level, in dilapidated buildings to be taught by teachers who can't be fired and administrators who don't have the legal right to set work rules or demand accountability.
Contrast this with schools where 90+% are at grade level or better, taught teachers who are motivated and held accountable by administrators who have the freedom to school policies conducive to learning with no interference from a malignant teachers' union that is part of the problem.
How dare you question a parent whose only other choice is an under performing union school?
Contrast this with schools where 90+% are at grade level or better, taught teachers who are motivated and held accountable by administrators who have the freedom to school policies conducive to learning with no interference from a malignant teachers' union that is part of the problem.
How dare you question a parent whose only other choice is an under performing union school?
1
I can understand the comments about how extreme, rigid, and humiliating SA's methods are, as they contradict traditional US public education systems and cultural values. It looks like SA is employing some methods though that have been very successful in other countries, some Asian and European countries, who have historically outperformed the US in math and science. I think it's too early to tell if this method is totally crazy or wrong though until we learn about the long term results and how these students fair academically, economically, socially and emotionally, etc.
"Success", I agree also isn't just how high your test scores are, as we value free and critical thinking and creativity. However, test scores still matter in our system and high scores could indicate some positive qualities and valuable skills. Whether tests nowadays foster rote memorization rather than critical thinking, problem solving or understanding, well, that's another thing that should be worked on.
My parents, who were not educated here, would sometimes say to me and my siblings, raised here, that we have it really easy, compared to the schooling they received in another country. I would argue our experiences are too different to compare, and that may be the case, but maybe not. I would keep an open-mind to see what we could learn from SA. What methods are effective, and how can they be used or modified to fit within our school system and culture to improve performance.
"Success", I agree also isn't just how high your test scores are, as we value free and critical thinking and creativity. However, test scores still matter in our system and high scores could indicate some positive qualities and valuable skills. Whether tests nowadays foster rote memorization rather than critical thinking, problem solving or understanding, well, that's another thing that should be worked on.
My parents, who were not educated here, would sometimes say to me and my siblings, raised here, that we have it really easy, compared to the schooling they received in another country. I would argue our experiences are too different to compare, and that may be the case, but maybe not. I would keep an open-mind to see what we could learn from SA. What methods are effective, and how can they be used or modified to fit within our school system and culture to improve performance.
6
Moskowitz's methods are very effective.
Of course, they're not effective at driving student learning. They're not even really effective at improving student test scores, since nothing schools can do will make a great deal of difference in those (they mostly depend on parenting). But they are, indeed, extremely effective at scaring away or driving out low-scoring kids.
If you can claim all the high-scoring kids in a given student population for yourself (those high-scoring kids exist in any demographic, albeit in different proportions) and give all the low-scoring kids to someone else (say, for instance, a public schools that can't refuse to take them as you do), you can claim "success."
Of course, they're not effective at driving student learning. They're not even really effective at improving student test scores, since nothing schools can do will make a great deal of difference in those (they mostly depend on parenting). But they are, indeed, extremely effective at scaring away or driving out low-scoring kids.
If you can claim all the high-scoring kids in a given student population for yourself (those high-scoring kids exist in any demographic, albeit in different proportions) and give all the low-scoring kids to someone else (say, for instance, a public schools that can't refuse to take them as you do), you can claim "success."
7
True, they do drive out and scare away a lot of kids. I'm not supportive of their suspension methods. I still think it's too early to tell their effect on student learning though. Some of their disciplinary methods, though I'm not a fan of all of them, could develop good work ethic, resiliency, self-determination, teach accountability, and other qualities. Parents, too, are greatly influential. I guess we'll see.
The idea is simple. Standards are set and though ample efforts are made to help improve students, failure is an option. The recognition that some people will fail and others succeed is the antithesis of No Child Left Behind and it is about time.
6
Why are these test-prep factories portrayed as the only models for improving urban education? Here in Rochester we have two schools, one a charter school and one a public school, that I consider exemplars of top-notch education not just for low-income students but for all students. Both schools use inquiry-based learning, following the Expeditionary Learning model. Both schools serve mainly low-income students. Although they don't get the astronomical test scores of our local SA-type charter school, their students are experts on...frogs, local history, astronomy, hurricanes...and more! If my own kids were still in elementary school, I would want to send them to one of these schools. I can't say the same thing for SA-type schools, whether charter schools or private.
5
Why not allow Moskowitz to take over a public school in one of the less advantaged neighborhoods and see how she does with its existing student population using her instructional or should I say management approach. It would be interesting to see the results and it might tells us, as I suspect, that much of what she has accomplished is suspect. Does any one think she would be up for the challenge?
8
Let her hire and fire teachers and administrators, and I'm sure she will take you up on it.
5
Let her hire and fire teachers and administrators under a protocol that acknowledges how physically and mentally demanding and depleting teaching can be, especially with the early-morning starts, and makes allowances for the fact that a 7 hour teaching day starting no earlier than 8am is the only reasonable course of action, not the 11 hour plus days that are currently demanded, with children arriving and teaching beginning at 7, 7:30am.
2
Yes, please... and when she does you'll have parents from all over the city pleading with her to let their kids in.
We've been trying to do it the other way for 40+ years and schools have largely failed to provide for minority and poor children. I think it's a relief to see the pendulum swinging back the other way. My parents and grandparents always insisted that community pressure (e.g., if you fail then everyone in the neighborhood will hear about it and know you're a failure) was the thing that motivated many children to do their best, as opposed to a kind pat on the back and the empty assurances. Maybe the "progressive" and the "mean old-fashioned" approach will finally meet somewhere in the middle eventually.
10
Take a real good look at the pictures, except for the ones for publicity with Eva, the children are NOT smiling. There are several points that people are not seeing.
Carmen Fariña is correct. We, in public schools, have to take everyone. There is no screening process and we cannot turn away children of any kind. We cannot reduce our ELL population, we cannot deny services to children with IEP's, we cannot "counsel" problems out of our school, and we cannot make a parent care.
Schools do need a culture of success to succeed. But I have seen classroom cultures that exist like the entire culture that is described in this article. The children are frightened. It is a Pre-K standard that a child will be able to attend to their own needs independently. So Success Academy is successful at having a child regress at a basic skill when they can't even identify the need to pee.
What test made you who you are? Certification exams withstanding. Experience has made me who I am, as well as my mistakes. What about you?
NYC public schools get in trouble for too many suspensions. They will be sited. I believe that if a child has done something violent or harmful they need an automatic suspension, but we can't do it. Children wiggle on the rug, sometimes that IS how they concentrate. It disturbs me that an AP interrupted a lesson for rug wiggles. I don't think it worth my time to call a parent for minor infraction that may occur once, like rug wiggles. We all have better things to do.
Carmen Fariña is correct. We, in public schools, have to take everyone. There is no screening process and we cannot turn away children of any kind. We cannot reduce our ELL population, we cannot deny services to children with IEP's, we cannot "counsel" problems out of our school, and we cannot make a parent care.
Schools do need a culture of success to succeed. But I have seen classroom cultures that exist like the entire culture that is described in this article. The children are frightened. It is a Pre-K standard that a child will be able to attend to their own needs independently. So Success Academy is successful at having a child regress at a basic skill when they can't even identify the need to pee.
What test made you who you are? Certification exams withstanding. Experience has made me who I am, as well as my mistakes. What about you?
NYC public schools get in trouble for too many suspensions. They will be sited. I believe that if a child has done something violent or harmful they need an automatic suspension, but we can't do it. Children wiggle on the rug, sometimes that IS how they concentrate. It disturbs me that an AP interrupted a lesson for rug wiggles. I don't think it worth my time to call a parent for minor infraction that may occur once, like rug wiggles. We all have better things to do.
10
Are the legions of former students who were failed by traditional district schools smiling?
3
You smile after your achievement. When you're concentrating hard, you don't smile.
1
Can you be more specific about how they have been failed? History shows that since the 1900's we educate more children, we include more children into the system to be educated, more graduate HS, and more go onto college. The truth is that everyone has always blamed teachers and education as being a failure. There is always a new idea or thing that people feel they must make teachers do. I propose that all politicians that are going to make and vote on educational policy MUST have taught in a Title 1 inner city school for at least 3 years (while learning educational content in grad school). Then let's talk.
Does anyone question the prohibitions on going to the bathroom, public humiliation of students, berating of students, strict demands of student obedience? In SA these methods are permitted; yet a public school teacher engaging in such tactics will be brought up on charges by the DOE and convicted of child abuse by the NY Post, the same paper leading the public charge against public school teachers. The SA teacher methodology imposed on students should clearly demonstrate that this charter operator works by a different set of rules that are absolutely prohibited in public schools.
7
When I read the comments so much of the criticism of this model comes from people whose kids will never experience the dregs of the public education system because they are sheltered by race and class privilege. Our system is tracked, with chaotic schools that have low expectations for children of color. This model may not be for everyone but it is a god send for some. I wish that privileged parents would stop opposing a program that works for poor minority youth because they think it wouldn't be a 'creative' enough option for their own kids.
17
I'm speaking from knowledge, not ignorance, when I say definitively that inner-city public schools are usually superior to charters. The charters just have bigger PR budgets.
I oppose them because they DON'T work. They steal resources from the model that does.
I oppose them because they DON'T work. They steal resources from the model that does.
4
Shaming peoples grades might sometimes work, but a more individualized approach that allows students to make a choice about what level of work that they would like or need to do works better. This means that the teacher can learn more about the student and teach individually.
1
NYT has to stop being the mouthpiece for the malignant teachers' unions.
When the alternative is to put your kids into their garbage schools, the answer is obvious.
The problem with charter schools is they are succeeding, and there is no greater repudiation of Randi Weingarten and Michael Mulgrew than that.
In the immortal and ever-resounding words of Al Shanker, "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that's when i'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren"
When the alternative is to put your kids into their garbage schools, the answer is obvious.
The problem with charter schools is they are succeeding, and there is no greater repudiation of Randi Weingarten and Michael Mulgrew than that.
In the immortal and ever-resounding words of Al Shanker, "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that's when i'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren"
15
Some of your comments are really quite vile. "Garbage schools*?
2
I have worked at 2 different charter schools and have friends who've worked at several other charter schools, and there is no way you can defend your blanket statement that "charter schools...are succeeding." They are usually in disarray and not in compliance and going through staff and faculty at alarming rates. I am sure whomever wrote this has no real concept of what happens behind the scenes at most charters.
5
Please cite the original source for that Albert Shanker quote. I am sure it is not real. Remember that Albert Shanker originated the idea of charter schools. His idea was that charters would be innovators and would implement researched based practices that traditional public schools would then put into widespread practice. He didn't envision charters as they are today -- test driven and profit centers for the wealthy.
2
Propaganda through and through. Success Academy is successful at cherry picking students. Even cherrypicking, If students are not a good fit they are bounced back to their neighborhood to clean up Eva Moskowitz mess.
13
How does one cherry pick through a lottery?
3
The lottery is rigged.
Eagle, there are ways after the lottery to cherry pick: requirements for meetings that parents may not be able to attend due to work. A missed meeting loses your child's spot. You get the drift. And the weeding out of children occurs throughout the year. So by 8th grade, fewer than half of the original students remain. How is this success?
1
I sympathize with the "if this is what it takes..." approach but cannot really believe that this kind of external pressure fosters understanding of any subject, which again makes me doubt the validity of the tests used in their ability to gauge a kid's abilities in a subject. Then again, half of Asia seems to send their kids to high- and cram school from 7 am to 11 pm and that seems to go well (by keeping them out of trouble). I suppose as long as they have some time per day to follow their calling, sleep and enough sports so it doesn't get unhealthy, I'd support the experiment. The kids don't do anything in their first year in college anyway...
You can't win if you're an administrator. You are either too lax and don't care or either too strict and care very much. As a teacher, I'd rather have a principal who enforced rules. A classroom full of behavioral problems is impossible to teach and makes it hard for the students who want to learn. Many of these kids have no discipline at home so being in a place where there are rules is often good... in the long run.
6
What's wrong with high expectations, excellence and orderliness and as I see in the picture school uniforms? These qualities help the kids to be achievers. They begin to expect a higher standard for themselves, not only their parents. If it is achieving success in low-income neighborhoods, why not?? It maybe the answer to the public school system where money just goes down the drain. Of course, it is not perfect. Which system is? Even Singapore's excellent school system is criticized. Tweaking the necessary changes would only make it better rather than totally dismantling it. We should stop ourselves from the all or none mindset.
12
No, that's racist. When it comes to meting out discipline, it's more important to bean-count how many white kids got in trouble for the same offenses. If the numbers don't balance then you have to keep letting the black kids disrupt class until a sufficient # of white kids get in trouble also. This is the madness that has taken over the education establishment, no thanks to Holder and Obama.
3
Tough crowd. Most of the public schools are disaster areas and remain resistant to actual, positive change despite "competition" from private, charter and parochial schools. If the kids here are actually learning and succeeding, good for them and good for the administration. Stop with the sophistry about how it is not for everyone, how some kids somewhere are also doing well in some other system, how the turnover of teachers is "high". Ask the big picture questions of why the public school systems are in entropy no matter how much money is poured into them; were they better in the past; if so, why; were parents and teachers and students more conscientious in the olden days; is the curriculum at fault, what is being taught or not taught now that was taught in the past, etc.
5
The fact is, the public schools aren't bad. Students who show up, behave, and do their work get a heck of an education, usually better than they can get in private schools and almost ALWAYS better than charters.
Too few kids take advantage of that. That's certainly a problem that we should address. But it's not a problem with public schools, but with the families and communities some of them are serving.
Too few kids take advantage of that. That's certainly a problem that we should address. But it's not a problem with public schools, but with the families and communities some of them are serving.
4
Just FYI - when my boys were in the German public schools (elementary grades) I had to put a stop to the practice of my son's friends dividing our Matchbox auto collection by the test scores on the last math test - better grade, better truck.
If you think that grade shaming doesn't play a role later in life, you're some sort of blind.
If you think that grade shaming doesn't play a role later in life, you're some sort of blind.
9
Not a single child from the first "graduating" (8th) class of Success Academy got into one of the selective NYC high schools (Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, etc). What does that tell you?
16
That admissions to those schools are biased in favor of the privileged?
3
Admissions to those schools are based on an exam score. If Success students have the promised mastery of the tested subjects, you'd think they'd be very well-positioned to win places in the exam high schools.
4
It is extremely hard to get into one of the specialized high schools, even for students in good schools, and there are a very limited number of slots.
2
As a long-time NY Times subscriber I am supremely disappointed by your article.
My wife and I know firsthand the value of a truly good education. We’ve gone to great extents to raise our children in New York City so that they would be exposed early to all the things it took us to adulthood to experience.
That dream nearly ended two years ago when we sought to find an elementary school for our boys. We researched and toured dozens of schools that ran the gamut from private to public. Tuition at the private schools was well beyond our reach, and all but the most coveted district schools were beset by a lack of enthusiasm and a dearth of academic standards. The children at the gifted and talented programs we toured were covering material our boys had mastered in preschool the year before – and the odds were that we wouldn’t be lucky enough to gain a spot in one of them anyway.
Then, with our options nearly exhausted, we toured Success Academy. Having read mainly negative stories, like the one in your paper today, our expectations were low. But the experience turned out to be life-changing. The teachers were driven, the environment was uplifting, the children were eager to learn and the standards were as high as we saw at the top private schools. Kindergarteners were doing hands-on science experiments and learning chess!
The one-sided and negative tone of your article does a disservice to everyone who works hard to make public education work despite great odds.
My wife and I know firsthand the value of a truly good education. We’ve gone to great extents to raise our children in New York City so that they would be exposed early to all the things it took us to adulthood to experience.
That dream nearly ended two years ago when we sought to find an elementary school for our boys. We researched and toured dozens of schools that ran the gamut from private to public. Tuition at the private schools was well beyond our reach, and all but the most coveted district schools were beset by a lack of enthusiasm and a dearth of academic standards. The children at the gifted and talented programs we toured were covering material our boys had mastered in preschool the year before – and the odds were that we wouldn’t be lucky enough to gain a spot in one of them anyway.
Then, with our options nearly exhausted, we toured Success Academy. Having read mainly negative stories, like the one in your paper today, our expectations were low. But the experience turned out to be life-changing. The teachers were driven, the environment was uplifting, the children were eager to learn and the standards were as high as we saw at the top private schools. Kindergarteners were doing hands-on science experiments and learning chess!
The one-sided and negative tone of your article does a disservice to everyone who works hard to make public education work despite great odds.
27
I'm very glad to hear that your children have benefited from Success Academy! However, I'm puzzled by your characterization of the article as negative. I thought it was a ringing endorsement. Is society so brainwashed that descriptions of discipline and hard work are viewed negatively? What's being done at these schools is just basic common sense...
1
The communists running the board of ed, the teachers unions, and the mayor's office don't care about your kids. They would rather stick them in a room with a bunch of knuckleheads and make them learn at a lower pace, which would inevitably cause them to tune out or rebel since they wouldn't be challenged. Then they would have another "problem" student, which they could use to bolster their special ed #s to justify hiring more union teachers. Good move, mom and dad. Keep your kids out of union dominated NYC public schools.
5
I find that parents of these "gifted" students being so well-served by Success Academy's millions of dollars in "uplifting" education are almost always at one of the newer Success Academy schools that cater to upper middle class families. These "new" Success Academy schools are located in wealthy areas, spend millions to market and woo affluent parents, and have made sure that very few poor students are in their school to scare off these families by dropping their lottery priority for anyone but residents of the district. Of course Success Academy works for their children!
But I question whether this parent can make a outrageous statement that "the standards were as high as we saw at the top private schools." The top private schools are not anything like what is described in this article. Now it is possible that Success Academy allows upper middle class gifted students far more leeway in the schools that seem to be designed just for them than those poor students who get suspended for small infractions from the age of 5. But then, why shouldn't Success Academy make sure that students who will do well on state tests are catered to? And why shouldn't they weed out the lower income students who just aren't measuring up? Apparently, that is the best practice that public schools are supposed to copy. Sad.
But I question whether this parent can make a outrageous statement that "the standards were as high as we saw at the top private schools." The top private schools are not anything like what is described in this article. Now it is possible that Success Academy allows upper middle class gifted students far more leeway in the schools that seem to be designed just for them than those poor students who get suspended for small infractions from the age of 5. But then, why shouldn't Success Academy make sure that students who will do well on state tests are catered to? And why shouldn't they weed out the lower income students who just aren't measuring up? Apparently, that is the best practice that public schools are supposed to copy. Sad.
5
I continue to hear the criticism of "teaching to the tests." If the tests measure what you should know at a particular grade level, then teaching to the tests amounts to teaching students what they should know. Where's the problem? One had better get used to taking tests if one is going to college. It takes high test scores to get into a good college , and once you get there, what do you run into in essentially all courses? Tests! Tests exist for the simple purpose of determining if the test-taker knows the material or not. You can't be a creative thinker if you don't know some basics to start with, as you can build a house if you don't know the difference between a hammer and a saw. Most of the critics were probably education measures, and those of us who went to college know that education is one of the least demanding of all college majors. You can be intelligent and become a teacher, but unfortunately it is not a requirement, and poor ones are kept in place for decades by the teacher's unions, which are also adamantly opposed to merit pay and differential salaries for hard-to-find teachers, like physics and chemistry.
9
The tests are horrible. The English tests require regurgitation of the reading passages. The questions are ridiculous --poorly written, requiring parsing of the differences between two or three correct choices. Teachers don't write these tests. The tests are desiged so most children will fail.
3
Couldn't agree more with LN. The tests are horrible.
1
The concept of accountability and personal responsibility for ones performance is the best way to prepare these children for a future of self awareness, professionalism, and productivity. If it seems harsh it's only because the pendulum is 180 degrees on the reckless careless side. Aren't you tired of hearing "Whatever" from a students mouth when something goes wrong? Not only does this promote high achievement, but it gives them a measuring stick to guide their decisions choosing friends and relationships in the future. BRAVO!
7
Within the article, where is accountability taken by the school when a child has poor performance? The teachers are faulted. The child is faulted. The parents are faulted. The methodology (ideology?) is defended, effectively, Our method works if you work hard. If you fail, it's due to your lack of hard work, not the failure of our method.
I have no argument with accountability and (personal) responsibility, but the school accepts neither for itself.
Telling a child repeated failure is due to lack of effort doesn't help when nothing is done to determine why the child repeatedly fails in order to offer remediation or clarification. I know firsthand.
Studying music theory privately when I was still in elementary school, for a time I could not grasp the concept of intervals, which the instructor explained the same way, time and again. The text was no help, since it used the same explanation. Telling me I wasn't working hard enough didn't help. I simply wanted to give up because I felt incapable.
All it took to unlock this mystery was a diagram and three minutes provided by a fellow (older) student to make the breakthrough to understanding. The following year, I got a very high mark in harmony, for which an understanding of intervals is essential.
I have no argument with accountability and (personal) responsibility, but the school accepts neither for itself.
Telling a child repeated failure is due to lack of effort doesn't help when nothing is done to determine why the child repeatedly fails in order to offer remediation or clarification. I know firsthand.
Studying music theory privately when I was still in elementary school, for a time I could not grasp the concept of intervals, which the instructor explained the same way, time and again. The text was no help, since it used the same explanation. Telling me I wasn't working hard enough didn't help. I simply wanted to give up because I felt incapable.
All it took to unlock this mystery was a diagram and three minutes provided by a fellow (older) student to make the breakthrough to understanding. The following year, I got a very high mark in harmony, for which an understanding of intervals is essential.
1
I was a full-time Chess Teacher at SA for a year.
Teachers had two realities: teaching/classroom and administration/dodging personalities. My colleagues were inspirational, cared deeply, and set foundations for life-long learning and self-growth. That was for the kids. The kids often got 100% each class, teaching methods were effective (e.g. “whole brain teaching”), and the kids were really benefiting.
The structure of SA, however, is quite hierarchical and each school and department has its own administrative culture. In this kind of situation, individuals with certain titles can rain down positive or negative pressures, prejudices, or perspectives (excuse the alliteration, it just happened like that). A lot of people had a lot on their plates as consequence of job complexities. So a teacher, instead of empowered, was sometimes suppressed in a surplus of bad energy, which wasn't too uncommon, and I have seen it build up for several people.
Each case of this is really particular, and almost all of it has to do with interpersonal communication. Wonder why I quit? My list is long, complex, and personal. I console in, “Forgive them, for they know not what they do.” I am proud of the time I spent at Success, because I know many lives were greatly benefited by my teaching, and, really, SA gave me most of the tools to do that. Grand point: reform structure to check power, connect better with those you'd manage, and make key decisions reasonable and transparent.
Go kids!
Teachers had two realities: teaching/classroom and administration/dodging personalities. My colleagues were inspirational, cared deeply, and set foundations for life-long learning and self-growth. That was for the kids. The kids often got 100% each class, teaching methods were effective (e.g. “whole brain teaching”), and the kids were really benefiting.
The structure of SA, however, is quite hierarchical and each school and department has its own administrative culture. In this kind of situation, individuals with certain titles can rain down positive or negative pressures, prejudices, or perspectives (excuse the alliteration, it just happened like that). A lot of people had a lot on their plates as consequence of job complexities. So a teacher, instead of empowered, was sometimes suppressed in a surplus of bad energy, which wasn't too uncommon, and I have seen it build up for several people.
Each case of this is really particular, and almost all of it has to do with interpersonal communication. Wonder why I quit? My list is long, complex, and personal. I console in, “Forgive them, for they know not what they do.” I am proud of the time I spent at Success, because I know many lives were greatly benefited by my teaching, and, really, SA gave me most of the tools to do that. Grand point: reform structure to check power, connect better with those you'd manage, and make key decisions reasonable and transparent.
Go kids!
17
The only thing the Freshies just out of college have over experienced teachers is stamina. They will be burned out real fast. They only took the job because that is all that is available. If the public schools were allowed to disapline as the charter schools AND had parental involvement, there would be no need for them as public school would have great success. It's all about disapline and parents.
3
And spelling.
2
The question is not do these children pass the tests but do they succeed in life? And is there another way to have high standards that is not humiliating and traumatizing to children? I know the answer to the second question and it is yes. Many many other ways. Bathing the developing brains of already stressed out New York City children in even higher levels of stress hormones is destructive and not the way to go.
9
I've taught in public schools for nearly 10 years. Never have I had a student wet himself. And then to blame the students, as Ms. Moskowitz does, when they do is outrageous and antithetical to the purpose of learning.
21
Great, so let's take this stray, anecdotal data point and use it to discredit the entire concept of charter schools.
2
As a person who leans politically to the left, I know I risk criticism by speaking out in favor of SA. That also does not mean I can uncritically accept all their methods (assuming that some of the methods described here are an accurate portrayal of what is really occurring in the classrooms. I'd need more proof to make that determination). But SA did not invent the culture of standardized test as the measure of a good education; they are trying to give students who are not from privileged families a better chance of succeeding in such a culture. No one gets into the Ivy League without good SAT and Advanced Placement scores. And I think one statistic is very telling " this year, the network said, it received more than 22,000 applications for 2,688 seats." It would seem that lots of parents out there, who presumably know something of SA's standards -- academic and disciplinary -- and who want the best education possible for their kids, are the best measure of the SA's success.
11
Risking criticism to speak honestly is admirable whichever way you lean. Lack of this courage, in both parties, is why the nation is becoming ever more dysfunctional.
2
As mentioned elsewhere in these comments, SA students did not get into the specialized high schools. How are these schools helping children succeed?
1
I'm the same way. I lean left, but I feel like the commenters on this article care more about either the teachers' union, or the students' right to have fun in school, than about the fact that thousands of students each year are being left functionally illiterate and trapped in poverty. Anything that can break this cycle should be tried.
3
I think discipline, order, and demanding the best from students are all good things. But something is wrong at Success. Shaming kids who receive low scores? Toys for the high achievers? Teachers working 11 hour days on a regular basis? Believe me, I am no fan of the teachers' union--I think it's a cesspool. But I am getting the impression that what drives Success is what makes Ms. Moskowitz look good. Short-term the scores are great. What happens to these kids when they go to college, and they have to provide their own structures? I do not see that kind of learning going on.
8
The message I get from this article: Success belongs to Success and its approach, but poor results are the failure of teachers and students. The lesson being taught by these schools is that bullying and rejection of the "lesser than" is socially acceptable.
I'm also bothered by the business model that includes government subsidizing private business with free rent. The school districts have paid the capital costs and fund the maintenance of their properties with hard-fought-for finite funding, yet these charter schools get an investment-free domicile. (Are they at least paying the facilities' running costs?) Success talks about how it offers enhanced education (music, art, swimming, etc.), equipment and supplies (including underwear and sweatpants), while the public schools can't afford them. Come back to me when the charter schools pay their way fully and tell me how well its working for them financially.
I'm also bothered by the business model that includes government subsidizing private business with free rent. The school districts have paid the capital costs and fund the maintenance of their properties with hard-fought-for finite funding, yet these charter schools get an investment-free domicile. (Are they at least paying the facilities' running costs?) Success talks about how it offers enhanced education (music, art, swimming, etc.), equipment and supplies (including underwear and sweatpants), while the public schools can't afford them. Come back to me when the charter schools pay their way fully and tell me how well its working for them financially.
9
This article described a very abusive atmosphere. 3rd graders wetting themselves because teachers refuse to let them go to the bathroom, teachers sending 4th grade students emails that amounted to bullying, and threatening, also does not sound like an emotionally sound environment, conducive to genuine learning. If the article had not stated where the school was located, I would have thought it was describing something from communist China.
An earlier poster, CityBumpkin, asked "how many of these commentators lambasting Success Academy grew up poor? How many are Hispanic or black?" I am hispanic. I am 2nd generation born here. My mother grew up poor, in the gang infested barrio of East LA, with 5 brothers and sisters in a 2 br house. She went on to become a 1st grade ESL teacher (whom would never abuse her children like this) All of her siblings went on to college and various decent careers.
I am well aware of the uphill struggles the poor and minority face to get out of poverty. However, too many people have the misguided notion that test scores are the end all ticket. I assure you they are not. Parents allowing children to be subject to this kind of abuse,are more likely ensuring them a ticket to the psych ward, than a ticket to any elite college.
The wealthy kids don't endure this kind of treatment at their fancy smancy private schools. In fact many private schools don't take a 1/4 of the tests that the public and charter schools are taking.
An earlier poster, CityBumpkin, asked "how many of these commentators lambasting Success Academy grew up poor? How many are Hispanic or black?" I am hispanic. I am 2nd generation born here. My mother grew up poor, in the gang infested barrio of East LA, with 5 brothers and sisters in a 2 br house. She went on to become a 1st grade ESL teacher (whom would never abuse her children like this) All of her siblings went on to college and various decent careers.
I am well aware of the uphill struggles the poor and minority face to get out of poverty. However, too many people have the misguided notion that test scores are the end all ticket. I assure you they are not. Parents allowing children to be subject to this kind of abuse,are more likely ensuring them a ticket to the psych ward, than a ticket to any elite college.
The wealthy kids don't endure this kind of treatment at their fancy smancy private schools. In fact many private schools don't take a 1/4 of the tests that the public and charter schools are taking.
10
How about looking at the genesis of the "Success Academy" story - namely that Moskowitz lost a city council race due to not being backed by the teacher's union- then hedge fund cronies backed her to start the first one of these "school" in Harlem. Sound like retaliation tactics, not worthy of a real educator. How about looking at the salaries commanded by the charter school execs in Manhattan - the Daily News recently reported that Moskowitz is earning almost $500,000 per year, and she and 15 others earn more that the head of the DOE in NYC. So - it looks like the charter schools are following the hedge fund plans for raking in and making money for themselves - while NOT serving the people of NYC in any productive way. As for the ridiculous idea of naming classes in elementary schools after colleges - what would you call a class led by Bill Gates? "No degree?" What is becoming increasingly interesting in NY Times articles is not what is included, but what is left out.
10
Great, another ad-hominem attack on Eva Moskawitz. Just what education policy needs.
2
It is as unrealistic to hold up Bill Gates as a role model as to hold up a pro sports player. Chances are pretty good your kid is not going to be the outlier who comes up with a game-changing invention, any more than he's going to be an MVP.
Similarly, many commenters decry the regimented form of education. If you think schools are expensive now, just think what will happen when every kid must be treated as a special snowflake with his own individual 'learning style' which must be catered to.
A big part of life - and adulthood - is, like it or not, learning how to fit in, follow rules and instructions, and, yes, conform.
Similarly, many commenters decry the regimented form of education. If you think schools are expensive now, just think what will happen when every kid must be treated as a special snowflake with his own individual 'learning style' which must be catered to.
A big part of life - and adulthood - is, like it or not, learning how to fit in, follow rules and instructions, and, yes, conform.
OK, so aggressive cherry-picking, dedicated test-targeting, and truly egregious worker exploitation running at an annual burnout rate perhaps approaching 50% produce politically pleasing results and marketing PR aimed at desperate populations. It's not at all clear what any of this has to do with education for happy, productive lives.
Don't be deceived by not-for-proft status. In a many cases, this simply means legal chicanery by which bond holders replace stockholders. Why are hedge fund managers so deeply invested in the charter school movement? Why are they contributing so lavishly to politicians to open more charter schools? How personally profitable is this enterprise and those like it for top "salaried" administrators? How profitable is it for bond holders and traders?
Don't be deceived by not-for-proft status. In a many cases, this simply means legal chicanery by which bond holders replace stockholders. Why are hedge fund managers so deeply invested in the charter school movement? Why are they contributing so lavishly to politicians to open more charter schools? How personally profitable is this enterprise and those like it for top "salaried" administrators? How profitable is it for bond holders and traders?
9
lots of rich people give money away to non-profits. they give to Success Academy because they are well aware of the how pathetically inadequate our public schools are, and the stranglehold the teachers' unions have over policy.
2
In impoverished black neighborhoods, doing well by working hard in school is labelled "acting white." It is part of a self-defeating culture that leads both to school failure and also delinquency. It's a culture that traditional public schools have failed to impact. That children at Success Academy can be influenced by another culture, one that promotes respect for school, for authority, for learning, for one's potential for success is, for most of them, life-saving. That sensibilities of critics are offended by its methods is irrelevant. The lives of too many children are at stake and what's been offered by the traditional public school for this population, profoundly disappointing.
The author states that since the oldest of these students are in high school, not yet finished, that it's hard to assess overall results. Yet even now, a comparison between these students and their teen age peers in public school for delinquent activity would be useful in assessing possibilities for future success in their lives.
The author states that since the oldest of these students are in high school, not yet finished, that it's hard to assess overall results. Yet even now, a comparison between these students and their teen age peers in public school for delinquent activity would be useful in assessing possibilities for future success in their lives.
7
Until Ms. Moskowitz has experienced the horror of wetting herself publicly, at her work desk, she should not be permitted to attribute student "accidents" to "the challenges of sharing space in public school buildings." That having been said, I would agree that lack of discipline and low expectations are plagues on our public schools.
3
This is exactly what you get from a " For Profit" Hedge Fund/ROI based education model. Sounds exactly like close order drill at Parris Island. The difference is the recruits are all grown men!
Not sure why any one would be surprised by that...
Damaging beyond belief. This makes very clear what Cuomo's true vision for education in this state actually is, and where he is getting all his input. No surprise that he is going to be at their gathering on the 20th. Sounds a lot like "Getting Clear" on HBO.
Not sure why any one would be surprised by that...
Damaging beyond belief. This makes very clear what Cuomo's true vision for education in this state actually is, and where he is getting all his input. No surprise that he is going to be at their gathering on the 20th. Sounds a lot like "Getting Clear" on HBO.
9
As a daughter of Asian American immigrants, I grew up in a community that held high expectations and hopes for academic achievements in school and on standardized tests, which were believed to produce acceptances from prestigious colleges. Because of this culture, I grew up attending tutoring centers that drilled me with timed problems sets of basic arithmetic and geometry, and SAT prep centers that gave weekly mock exams and packets of practice questions. Did I enjoy attending these classes when I could have been playing after school or on the weekends? Of course not! But did I enjoy the benefits of this strict, and often monotonous preparation? Of course I did! I think what advocates of "creative education" and "cultivating internal motivation" often forget, is that the mastering of fundamentals is necessary before experiencing the freedom of "creativity." As a young student I dreaded the hours of math, reading, and writing practice. However, all those hours of addition and multiplication laid a foundation that made it easier for me to learn and (enjoy learning) more complex concepts. The Success schools' curriculum seems harsh and constraining to many, but readers must recognize that the harsh discipline in perfecting the fundamental skills in elementary and middle school, gives students the tools to succeed on a higher level in different subjects.
18
I think the method publishing grades is extreme and unnecessary. No matter what type of school, parental involvement is key, which seems to be one thing Success Academy is able to extract from parents.
5
If some of these kids do get into Dartmouth, Yale, Swarthmore, etc., I predict that they are going to struggle mightily. Thinking for yourself is still valued at those schools, and it seems that the Success Academy students will have had that capacity drummed out of them. The whole article is quite sad. And the idea that Success Academy is better than the local public schools -- which may well be true -- is the saddest aspect of all.
18
At least these kids will get into college. If they were left trapped in their local public school, they probably wouldn't even know how to read.
1
twenty years from now we will know if these schools succeeded or not. We don't now. The oldest children are still in high school. If they do well, go on to college, succeed there and don't burn out before they are done, then we can say that schools of this nature are a success. We cannot say that at this point.
2
Tests measure what you know. If the test contains what a child is supposed to know, what is the teacher teaching towards? How else does the teacher validate what a child knows? Instinct? Experience? Is that why so many public school students graduate without knowing anything?
Schools like this focus on achievement. If you don't want kids to achieve, go to another school. If you don't like reward-based learning, you can do your job for free and see how intrinsic your enjoyment of your work is.
Schools like this focus on achievement. If you don't want kids to achieve, go to another school. If you don't like reward-based learning, you can do your job for free and see how intrinsic your enjoyment of your work is.
4
The laughable nonsense of false choices aside, it's easy to "focus on achievement" when you can use tax dollars to separate the wheat from the chaff that might ruin the curve for you.
Besides, it's been reported, and nauseum, that none - not ONE - of these students has been able to get into specialized high schools.
I don't know about you, but I'd take the "B" student from the roughed-up playgrounds of public schools any day over a pants-wetting neurotic who only learned how to focus on getting straight As.
Besides, it's been reported, and nauseum, that none - not ONE - of these students has been able to get into specialized high schools.
I don't know about you, but I'd take the "B" student from the roughed-up playgrounds of public schools any day over a pants-wetting neurotic who only learned how to focus on getting straight As.
5
NYT had an opportunity to report on what (and how) is taught at SA, and why this teaching helps kids do well. Disappointingly, it chose to report on style over substance in this vacuous article that is too heavily based on experiences of former employees. The article leaves unclear what goes on during a literature lesson, or a math discussion, or a project. Completely lost is the depth of discussions that take place even among the 5-year-old set at SA, that I was fortunate to observe.
Granted, success on state exams, even the more challenging ones introduced recently, does not guarantee a successful or fulfilling life. But a lack of success on these exams typically guarantees a life of struggle for survival (and too often, prison time), particularly for kids without any financial cushion. No sizable school in Harlem, district or charter, has ever made it over this hurdle except for SA. In this sense, there is no choice of 'should we have SA or not?', as hardly any other public school in Harlem is a true choice for parents. SA can certainly be improved, just like anything, and certainly competitive, scalable school models should be designed and implemented, - but for now, you should let the readers really understand what is truly different about learning at SA. Surely it has little to do with discipline, as other charter schools (e.g. KIPP) implement even stricter discipline and have equally dedicated teachers, but do not match the results.
Granted, success on state exams, even the more challenging ones introduced recently, does not guarantee a successful or fulfilling life. But a lack of success on these exams typically guarantees a life of struggle for survival (and too often, prison time), particularly for kids without any financial cushion. No sizable school in Harlem, district or charter, has ever made it over this hurdle except for SA. In this sense, there is no choice of 'should we have SA or not?', as hardly any other public school in Harlem is a true choice for parents. SA can certainly be improved, just like anything, and certainly competitive, scalable school models should be designed and implemented, - but for now, you should let the readers really understand what is truly different about learning at SA. Surely it has little to do with discipline, as other charter schools (e.g. KIPP) implement even stricter discipline and have equally dedicated teachers, but do not match the results.
9
The elephant in the room here is that it is CHEAPER to educate the students who respond to strict discipline and can turn hours of test prep into a good performance in a standardized test. But these schools are being rewarded with more and more money to do the most inexpensive part of education. Do you know what is expensive? Giving an education to the many struggling low-income students who seem to mysteriously disappear from Success Academy schools.
What public school parents like me object to is that Eva Moskowitz is claiming that all public schools should get her results, because her students' test scores "prove" that failing schools don't need more funding. Teachers in those public schools buy basic supplies -- pencil and paper -- for their students while Success Academy provides iPads for their students. And yet she has the chutzpah to pretend she is getting her results with the exact same students you'd find in those failing public schools.
There is not a person commenting here who believes that. So why would Eva Moskowitz continue to spout such nonsense over and over again instead of just acknowledging that her schools cannot and will never educate every at-risk child in failing schools? Is it because Eva Moskowitz' misleading claims provide the justification to cut even more money from public school budgets? Is that why so many right -wing billionaires support her schools?
What public school parents like me object to is that Eva Moskowitz is claiming that all public schools should get her results, because her students' test scores "prove" that failing schools don't need more funding. Teachers in those public schools buy basic supplies -- pencil and paper -- for their students while Success Academy provides iPads for their students. And yet she has the chutzpah to pretend she is getting her results with the exact same students you'd find in those failing public schools.
There is not a person commenting here who believes that. So why would Eva Moskowitz continue to spout such nonsense over and over again instead of just acknowledging that her schools cannot and will never educate every at-risk child in failing schools? Is it because Eva Moskowitz' misleading claims provide the justification to cut even more money from public school budgets? Is that why so many right -wing billionaires support her schools?
22
What are the results of shaming children?
I went to school a long time ago, far far away in Queens NY, in a "good" district in a lovely middle-class neighborhood. I was one of those children with excellent natural abilities in some areas and serious disabilities (though undiagnosed in those days) in others. My language abilities kept me in the "best" classes and eventually into an accelerated middle school program.
I never learned math properly; I fell behind year after year; I had a sixth-grade teacher who stood us all up and went around the room with her horrible pointer calling out math problems. I still remember my terror and that was more than half a century ago. And I still can't do math and struggle to interpret analogue clocks and watches.
My experience in those days was like marshmallows compared to what is described here. What happens to the children kicked out of Ms. Moscowitz's fiefdom because they freeze with terror under her methods and their ability to learn is not nurtured? All these happy SA parents writing in about their own children--I don't see any comments from someone stating that her own child has wet herself/himself and that's a wonderful thing....
I went to school a long time ago, far far away in Queens NY, in a "good" district in a lovely middle-class neighborhood. I was one of those children with excellent natural abilities in some areas and serious disabilities (though undiagnosed in those days) in others. My language abilities kept me in the "best" classes and eventually into an accelerated middle school program.
I never learned math properly; I fell behind year after year; I had a sixth-grade teacher who stood us all up and went around the room with her horrible pointer calling out math problems. I still remember my terror and that was more than half a century ago. And I still can't do math and struggle to interpret analogue clocks and watches.
My experience in those days was like marshmallows compared to what is described here. What happens to the children kicked out of Ms. Moscowitz's fiefdom because they freeze with terror under her methods and their ability to learn is not nurtured? All these happy SA parents writing in about their own children--I don't see any comments from someone stating that her own child has wet herself/himself and that's a wonderful thing....
10
Overall I have mixed feelings about Charter Schools in general. Though what shocked me the most was Moskowitz stating that they give teachers 1 month paid maternity leave as if it was a good thing! This is shameful. I realize that in the U.S. paid leave is barely required. However, in other countries 3 month paid leave is standard and sometimes even more.
The other issue that bothered me is shaming the children in regards to their test scores. Children who are often accused as not trying hard enough could have learning disabilities or vision problems. This happened to me as a child. I feel behind on timed Math tests. I tried very hard and would get frustrated and cry. 2 years later I found that I had a vision issue that made timed tests very difficult for me. It was too late though. I had already been put back in Math and was overall in classes that were too easy for me. I also thought for years I was bad at Math.
The other issue that bothered me is shaming the children in regards to their test scores. Children who are often accused as not trying hard enough could have learning disabilities or vision problems. This happened to me as a child. I feel behind on timed Math tests. I tried very hard and would get frustrated and cry. 2 years later I found that I had a vision issue that made timed tests very difficult for me. It was too late though. I had already been put back in Math and was overall in classes that were too easy for me. I also thought for years I was bad at Math.
6
From the comments it seems like more than a few people don't want to give the black man or the Hispanic man a choice in where to send their child to school.
Power to the Freedom of Choice. Isn't that something worth going to the barricades for?
Power to the Freedom of Choice. Isn't that something worth going to the barricades for?
6
The "choice" being offered to people of color is a cynical lie. Parents have NEVER had a seat at the table where what will be made available to choose from is decided upon. When they have asked for better funding and repairs to decrepit schools they have been ignored or attacked for asking. This is like the choice Henry Ford described: "You can have your Model T painted any color you like just so long as it's black."
2
Many commenters are critical of the Success Academies. They have no problems finding faults in how the kids are taught.
Would I be correct in concluding that these commenters are either all members of teacher's union or those very sympathetic to them? From what I read in big city papers, it seems such Acadamies are exactly the kind that unions campaign to abolish.
Would I be correct in concluding that these commenters are either all members of teacher's union or those very sympathetic to them? From what I read in big city papers, it seems such Acadamies are exactly the kind that unions campaign to abolish.
7
OK--let's look at the full expectations of Asian societies and why Asian parents demand so much of their children.
Those children are an investment for an entire extended family. The first one to obtain a higher degree and preferably a prestigious job overseas will be responsible for the success and wellbeing of siblings, parents, cousins etc. Each one who succeeds will be investing in the one behind him or her, and everyone will be providing for the parents. Brothers and sisters will be paying for the weddings of siblings.
These people often never have free choices in their own lives, because everyone is depending on them. Many Asian children in the specialized math and science schools in NYC wanted to study something and somewhere else and their parents forbade them from considering any career other than science or engineering or medicine.
Do you want to aspire to that sort of slavery?
Those children are an investment for an entire extended family. The first one to obtain a higher degree and preferably a prestigious job overseas will be responsible for the success and wellbeing of siblings, parents, cousins etc. Each one who succeeds will be investing in the one behind him or her, and everyone will be providing for the parents. Brothers and sisters will be paying for the weddings of siblings.
These people often never have free choices in their own lives, because everyone is depending on them. Many Asian children in the specialized math and science schools in NYC wanted to study something and somewhere else and their parents forbade them from considering any career other than science or engineering or medicine.
Do you want to aspire to that sort of slavery?
3
It's possible to have high standards without creating a situation where kids wet their pants with anxiety. Sheesh. Also, these teachers might be putting in Goldman hours, but they're not getting Goldman salaries to make up for the burnout. Although, I would argue that 11-hour days for teachers are certainly not exclusive to charter schools.
13
"Can you reset your carpet expectations?" Wow. I wonder if Eva Moskowitz ever had her carpet sitting technique corrected.
So serious question...why can't school be joyful for kids? I look at the pictures of the students in this story, and it pains me. They look miserable, which appears to be the intent. Any one who suggests at any time that "there has to be misery felt for the kids who are not doing what is expected of them" should not be in education. It's shocking to me when someone says in the comment thread that they would subject their own granddaughter to this. It's abuse.
Do we really think that learning is best accomplished by discipline and "carpet expectations?" Think about the most powerful learning you've done. Was it regimented? Did you have choice? Did you want to learn it? Did you enjoy it? What did you learn when someone made you miserable in the process of learning? Did you love learning more or less?
We're so lost in this country when it comes to education. Schools are broken because we've turned the whole thing into a competition for whatever is measurable, and we've just decided to ignore the stuff that isn't...creativity, curiosity, passion, constructing, asking questions. It's sad. Testing companies and colleges are collecting huge dividends on promoting that narrative. Yet 50% of our college grads can't find jobs, and the average grad carries almost $40,000 in debt. That's the future for the kids at "Success" Academy. Great job.
So serious question...why can't school be joyful for kids? I look at the pictures of the students in this story, and it pains me. They look miserable, which appears to be the intent. Any one who suggests at any time that "there has to be misery felt for the kids who are not doing what is expected of them" should not be in education. It's shocking to me when someone says in the comment thread that they would subject their own granddaughter to this. It's abuse.
Do we really think that learning is best accomplished by discipline and "carpet expectations?" Think about the most powerful learning you've done. Was it regimented? Did you have choice? Did you want to learn it? Did you enjoy it? What did you learn when someone made you miserable in the process of learning? Did you love learning more or less?
We're so lost in this country when it comes to education. Schools are broken because we've turned the whole thing into a competition for whatever is measurable, and we've just decided to ignore the stuff that isn't...creativity, curiosity, passion, constructing, asking questions. It's sad. Testing companies and colleges are collecting huge dividends on promoting that narrative. Yet 50% of our college grads can't find jobs, and the average grad carries almost $40,000 in debt. That's the future for the kids at "Success" Academy. Great job.
24
There's so much to unpack in this article. Before everyone jumps on the Success Academy bandwagon, it is important to remember the big takeaways:
* Once school starts, no new students are accepted. So children from families with unstable home situations are excluded. Compare that to public schools who have to continue to enroll children all year long.
* As mentioned, no new students enrolled after 4th grade. Public schools must enroll students at any grade.
* The public school system cannot expel students. The public school system cannot require families to commit time.
Public schools are required to serve all students, regardless of their circumstances. It is time to stop comparing charter schools to public schools. It is time to stop calling charter schools public schools. It is time to stop giving free space to charter schools. It is time to stop pretending that whatever "success" is taking place at charter is schools is scalable to the entire system.
And I use quotes, not as a cheeky reference to the name of the network featured in this article, but because there is no evidence that high scores on standardized tests will result in any meaningful change in life outcomes for the graduates of the network when compared to their peers. Only time will tell us how that story ends.
* Once school starts, no new students are accepted. So children from families with unstable home situations are excluded. Compare that to public schools who have to continue to enroll children all year long.
* As mentioned, no new students enrolled after 4th grade. Public schools must enroll students at any grade.
* The public school system cannot expel students. The public school system cannot require families to commit time.
Public schools are required to serve all students, regardless of their circumstances. It is time to stop comparing charter schools to public schools. It is time to stop calling charter schools public schools. It is time to stop giving free space to charter schools. It is time to stop pretending that whatever "success" is taking place at charter is schools is scalable to the entire system.
And I use quotes, not as a cheeky reference to the name of the network featured in this article, but because there is no evidence that high scores on standardized tests will result in any meaningful change in life outcomes for the graduates of the network when compared to their peers. Only time will tell us how that story ends.
25
From a social science perspective, I don't see what is being compared here. Is it pedagogy? Resources? Curriculum? All these things differ so much between the Success Academy and public schools that there are no clear conclusions to be drawn. One take away, for example, is that it is better to have hedge fund managers donate almost $100 million to your school than not. Likewise with kids being given an IPad. Or here's a good one: Increased teacher turnover produces higher test scores; the data are certainly consistent with that hypothesis.
If the claim is that well-funded schools that teach to the test and get to exclude problem children do better than those that don't enjoy these, that's not very interesting or helpful. Like the insurance company ad says, "Everybody knows that."
If the claim is that well-funded schools that teach to the test and get to exclude problem children do better than those that don't enjoy these, that's not very interesting or helpful. Like the insurance company ad says, "Everybody knows that."
16
NYC spends $20,000 a year per student. The problem isn't funding.
3
What are Success Academy's admission requirements? That information was missing from the article. We always hear about the lotteries, which gives the impression that every parent who wants his or her child to attend a charter school has an equal chance, but most charters set minimum requirements for entry into the lottery, guaranteeing that their incoming students are more likely to succeed than the average public school student from the same area.
6
It sounds like Success Academy is educating the students in a tough love environment and it also sounds like they drive their teachers and students very hard to gain that success. It sounds like a lot of the union teachers who dislike this method would never make it as teachers in SA, so I understand why they are bitter and like to complain about it. Why complain when you are failing your students and still have complete job security, what's not to like as a teacher in the union -- don't screw it up for us Success Academy!?! Learning what we had to learn in elementary school and high school is hard, it takes hard work and discipline and it helps if your peers are similarly motivated by whatever methods. I am sure test scores are not the perfect metric to measure all things, but producing students out of NYC public schools that are functionally illiterate and do not possess the math skills to do anything but a minimum wage job is a wasted potential life. Forget the test scores, but just teaching the kids discipline and hard work that Success Academy requires will set them on their way to be productive and happy members of society. Let's give the kids a chance and stop fighting for the teachers union, which represents the interests of teachers' not students.
10
One Academy's "discipline" policy is a public school's child abuse claim. It's like comparing your spin class with Marine boot camp. Any attempt at straight up comparison is pure folly.
5
Teachers working environment is the students learning environment. All teachers are in it for the kids and the union, being made up of teachers is too.
1
Regimentation and discipline have a long history of providing successful learning environment. Stop fretting over stress on the student and start focusing on the opportunity these children will receive from a safe and structured environment with teachers who are capable and accountable.
6
In what alternate universe do "regimentation and discipline have a long history" of success?
4
especially in the early years.
I always find it interesting how people defend the public school system by saying that the kids don't look like they are enjoying their time at Success Academy. As someone who has advanced degrees, I can guarantee that I didn't have a smile on my face at 5AM trying to finish a paper or studying for some exam. Hard work is what it often takes to be successful at something. No one is forcing parents to send their kids to this school, and therefore the slandering of Success Academy by critics is merely an attempt to create more excuses for the failings of the public school system.
17
"There has to be misery felt for the kids." Reading about the so-called "Success" academy was very, very difficult. Is this Ms. Moskowitz a trained educator? A parent? Where did she study child psychology and/or pedagogy? Why would any parent in their right mind allow their children to be so demeaned? An education is valuable, there's no disputing that, but so are caring and self-esteem. As a mother and a former teacher, I would never have sent my children to such a plantation as Success Academy. Teaching to the test, that's what she's doing, while maiming the minds of those helpless children. Shame on her, the state of New York, and all who participate in this form of child abuse.
12
There is really only one way to judge this issue. If you were a parent in that school district, where would you send your child? For me, that would be an extraordinarily easy answer - I'd be in that lottery in a second.
6
But, if you won that lottery, it would be your child in their classroom, not you. Is s/he the kind of learner who would thrive in that one-size-suits-all environment?
1
Success, despite the severity of its structure and processes, is the best possible educational approach needed to counterbalance the severe dysfunction and disadvantage that characterize the home environments that many urban children come from. Sorry the Success teachers have such a high burnout rate, but given all the resources that these charter schools deploy, I'd take them over the average NY public school any day. And the desperation of parents vying to get their kids into the very limited Success slots is a testament to the fact that they agree with me. Wish I had had the opportunity to attend a Success Charter School. NY should allow more of them to open. Results speak for themselves, even if some kids suffer periodic humiliation or discouragement. Better that than the dismal futures awaiting them down the road if they don't receive a strong education backed up by strategies designed to impart self-discipline and self-respect.
8
But can you claim that most Success students come from severe dysfunction and disadvantage? That fact that someone cared enough to enter the lottery would test that idea.
6
"Success Academy schools are also rich in the kind of extracurricular activities that have increasingly been cut from public schools, such as art, music, chess, theater, dance, basketball and swimming." Those are the kinds of activities that enrich a child's life and are not being done in public schools. Wealthier parents can afford to supply those activities - kudos to Success Academy for understanding the importance of those activities.
13
The reason public schools cut these activities is that they are forced to due to lack of funding-they have to spend their money on getting scores up, including the scores of those students excluded by charter schools: Special needs, ESL, children who are emotionally disturbed or mentally ill, homeless, abandoned.
Sadly your logic is circular: the very thing that has caused public schools to slash enrichment are the charter schools, which takes money from public; you then use this argument to say public schools are inferior. That's the idea behind it--drowning the baby in the bathwater, the baby being public school education.
If teachers in the inner city could educate only children whose parents are incredibly involved, could use discipline methods that would ordinarily get them fired (in some cases, prosecuted), could kick out whomever they wanted, we too would have fabulous results.
How are charter schools a solution to anything? They simply show that when you can cherry pick who you want & are excluded from normal law, you can have better results & can teach the arts. That's true of public schools too.
What will we do with the children who can't fit into the cookie cutter mold, who are special needs, who are ESL, homeless. etc?If you take a look at the big picture, rather than the individual one (an individual school, individual children) the charter school movement disenfranchises many of our nation's poor & violates their rights to a free & appropriate education.
Sadly your logic is circular: the very thing that has caused public schools to slash enrichment are the charter schools, which takes money from public; you then use this argument to say public schools are inferior. That's the idea behind it--drowning the baby in the bathwater, the baby being public school education.
If teachers in the inner city could educate only children whose parents are incredibly involved, could use discipline methods that would ordinarily get them fired (in some cases, prosecuted), could kick out whomever they wanted, we too would have fabulous results.
How are charter schools a solution to anything? They simply show that when you can cherry pick who you want & are excluded from normal law, you can have better results & can teach the arts. That's true of public schools too.
What will we do with the children who can't fit into the cookie cutter mold, who are special needs, who are ESL, homeless. etc?If you take a look at the big picture, rather than the individual one (an individual school, individual children) the charter school movement disenfranchises many of our nation's poor & violates their rights to a free & appropriate education.
3
If the school district didn't have to pay for the capital and maintenance costs of its schools, then maybe the money might be there to again fund the extracurricular activities you mention. Success Academy schools are getting a free-ride for their domiciles, on the backs of NY taxpayers, whose money should be going into those programs/activities in the public schools.
3
This article and the Success methodology reminded me of my 12 year, Roman Catholic, parochial education, but also of Gregory Peck in 12 O'Clock High relentless driving the squadron to "maximum effort."
5
well - something has to change with the city education system - this seems both creative, holding children accountable for their actions or in actions, educating them.... wow what a novel idea!
9
Times - I don't think their schools are the most demanding (compared to other charters). There are just more of them. As to the issues of discipline - so basically it sounds like a disciplined environment whereas most public schools are far from it (I know because I went to them). As to the standards - well hey - this is a very demanding world... You will either be prepared or you won't. The article is right though - discipline and high standards are not for everyone.
4
Everything old is new again. When I was in the 4th grade, in 1955, I was in a room taught by an older teacher. I remember that, more than any other teacher I had before or since, she posted names of good students and made a big deal about it. I was a good student going in, but I wonder if slower students got short shrift under that system.
4
I am a classroom teacher with almost thirty years of experience. I run a tight ship; my students do their homework every night or their parents are called, we are respectful of each other and there is no bullying, kids work in groups cooperatively and our academic standards are high. But when my students want to go to the bathroom, they nod at me, receive an answering nod, and go. When an antsy young kid needs to take a walk around the building, I hand him a pass to go get water and air out his legs. This doesn't interfere with the work; in fact, the respect I show my students by treating them like real people is returned tenfold. Any child who fails a test comes in the next day at lunchtime so we can go over it before she or he takes it again. In other words, I believe in kids and expect achievement, but I would not for a single minute think of shaming a child in public.
The high expectations of SA are great, and if some teachers choose to spend 11 hours a day working, more power to them. But the idea that children need to be humiliated in myriad ways in order to achieve success is simply not true. It amazes me that many people think there are simply two ways: total chaos or abject humiliation. This is a false dichotomy and I wish urban teachers and students had the opportunity to find a golden mean instead of being forced to choose one lopsided system or the other.
The high expectations of SA are great, and if some teachers choose to spend 11 hours a day working, more power to them. But the idea that children need to be humiliated in myriad ways in order to achieve success is simply not true. It amazes me that many people think there are simply two ways: total chaos or abject humiliation. This is a false dichotomy and I wish urban teachers and students had the opportunity to find a golden mean instead of being forced to choose one lopsided system or the other.
59
One critic commented that the only students who benefit from this approach are those whose only issues are being born poor and in the wrong school zone. And? And?
I love my grandaughter dearly and would subject her to this in a New York minute!
I love my grandaughter dearly and would subject her to this in a New York minute!
12
I see how Success works well for some subset of kids, teachers, administrators, and families. And I see how it works poorly for others.
The problem is that their model is implicitly being pushed as THE model for education. And this is the problem. The hope and worth of public education is that we produce a broadly informed electorate.
The Success model will likely produce a lot of Ivy League grads. And good for them. But what is the system that will produce a great nation for the rest of us to live in?
The problem is that their model is implicitly being pushed as THE model for education. And this is the problem. The hope and worth of public education is that we produce a broadly informed electorate.
The Success model will likely produce a lot of Ivy League grads. And good for them. But what is the system that will produce a great nation for the rest of us to live in?
7
No it's only being pushed by the media as the only way. The media has to have a "villain" in the story. Charter schools in NYC are very very diverse in how they operate.
1
One thing we know is that the traditional UFT run union model is an abject failure. Perhaps we're not sure what we should be moving towards, but is is pretty darn clear what we need to move away from.
2
With all due respect to Lisa Sun, I cannot for the life of me understand how the Success Academy can hire a principal that is 26. At 26, most of us in the education profession have been working less than 5 years. How can Ms. Sun effectively run a school when she doesn't have the "in the trenches," experience? With all due respect, how can she discuss what skills the students are lacking when she is not much more than a child herself. It takes YEARS of teaching all different students, working with colleagues and building up knowledge before one can be an EFFECTIVE administrator. My guess is Ms. Sun has neither yet. Maybe after she's taught a class for more than a year and understands that the student comes in with a whole set of complex problems that have nothing to do with learning and everything to do with nurturing, I'd be willing to work with her as a teacher in her building. Until then, I'll be happy to stay in my public school.
32
An effective, competent educator would not endorse Moskowitz's model.
13
You've nailed it, Eric. Spot on.
3
Research has strongly indicated that controlling, outcome oriented environments such as those described in this article serve to extinguish intrinsic motivation, diminish performance, crush creativity, encourage cheating and the taking of shortcuts, and foster short term thinking (Pink, 2009). Having experienced a similar "learning" environment in the Catholic school system, I can say with great certainty my desire to learn and explore were greatly diminished over time. The main thing I learned was to hate school. It was until a few decades later when I returned to school of my own volition (primarily to see if I was capable) that I truly enjoyed the learning process. Funny, when I stopped focusing on the outcome I achieved the results of which I apparently wasn't capable as a younger student.
17
Tell that to Asia - whose children are "eating our lunch".
2
Working hard. Getting your students to work hard. Having standards. Choosing discipline instead of classroom chaos, accountability instead of license. Why would anyone think this is a good approach to learning?
10
You missed the bullying, shaming and blaming. Why would anyone think they are a good approach to learning?
1
I wonder how many of these commentators lambasting Success Academy grew up poor? How many are hispanic or black?
Although my parents were far from poor and I am not black or hispanic, I am an immigrant and non-white. Without access to many of the benefits of wealth and class, to have access to many to many of the higher education and career opportunities that the better-off take for granted is to simply work harder and be better at the few tasks where the playing field can be leveled - like standardized tests. It seems to me Success Academy are aiming for giving their students these tools.
This is not a whole-hearted endorsement of Success Academy or their methods, but I would suggest not being so dismissive unless you have some notion of how much more of an uphill struggle it is to get into elite universities and careers when you don't have any of the starting advantages of wealth or social class.
Although my parents were far from poor and I am not black or hispanic, I am an immigrant and non-white. Without access to many of the benefits of wealth and class, to have access to many to many of the higher education and career opportunities that the better-off take for granted is to simply work harder and be better at the few tasks where the playing field can be leveled - like standardized tests. It seems to me Success Academy are aiming for giving their students these tools.
This is not a whole-hearted endorsement of Success Academy or their methods, but I would suggest not being so dismissive unless you have some notion of how much more of an uphill struggle it is to get into elite universities and careers when you don't have any of the starting advantages of wealth or social class.
17
CityBumpkin, I am a product of both the NYC public school system and North Carolina school system and my parents were middle-class when that term truly existed. I am Black and my parents would never have gone for some of the actions exhibited in these schools and my mother is college-educated! In my opinion, these children are NOT being "groomed" with tools that will serve them well in the future because they will not be able to critically think but only follow direction which I think is the point of charter schools anyway. The unfortunate part is that most of these parents do not have viable options via the public school system so they see this as the alternative
4
What advice does Ms. Moskowitz have for young people about the role of labor unions in society?
6
What difference does it make? This is about the students, not the unions.
5
The fact that the Teachers union are upset means they better start improving their teaching skills or their union will be yesteryear sooner than later. Sooner is preferable.
When you come from an environment, be it home, church or school, that has no expectations & no discipline then the students need to adjust to expectation & discipline.
A school like Success Academy is a positive option.
Students that succeeded in the traditional public or private schools do so not because of privilege but because EXPECTATIONS & DISCIPLINE are enforced at school & at home.
Money does not guarantee a successful school = the argument that charter schools are taking money/ success, etc. away from public schools is the default position.
Expectations & discipline will not guarantee a successful student.
Education opens the door - public or private or charter.
The student walking through that door must provide the willpower & determination.
Success is not an entitlement.
A school like Success Academy is a positive option.
Students that succeeded in the traditional public or private schools do so not because of privilege but because EXPECTATIONS & DISCIPLINE are enforced at school & at home.
Money does not guarantee a successful school = the argument that charter schools are taking money/ success, etc. away from public schools is the default position.
Expectations & discipline will not guarantee a successful student.
Education opens the door - public or private or charter.
The student walking through that door must provide the willpower & determination.
Success is not an entitlement.
5
What is success, higher test scores? What about leadership development? Respect of others? Students of Success Academy are no more successful of getting into the 9 specialized High Schools of New York City then Public School students. So, whats the point, more bonuses for text scores?
12
This is a complicated issue. In certain communities in NYC, the generational poverty that exists is real. The community schools are the same schools that failed their grandparents. Some of the public schools are terrible places for anyone, especially children. SA, it seems makes an assumption about such communities that they lack discipline, rigor, and human decorum. Upsetting. Teaching children manners and classroom social behaviors is the responsibilities of the parent. SA is playing on the vulnerabilities and fears of the parents which allow this highly inappropriate tone and behavior towards children. Giving children candy because they did something right! Is not the appropriate reward for doing anything in school. I'm so disturbed. Shaming children to do better doesn't make them smarter! But the test proves they are smart and that is what matters, right? It's the Peace Corps in NYC.
4
I taught for a year in a Chinese "public school." I was appalled by the lack of creativity and the inability of students to think for themselves, to imagine any response other than that which the teacher expected. Taking tests and doing well on them were a daily part of school life. The pressure to succeed was constant. In High School a student's entire future was based on their scores at the end of High School. Reading, with great sadness, this article, I thought how much we are turning into China! The ability to do well on a test has nothing to do with a person's innate intelligence. We know from research that people learn in different ways, and that qualities such as compassion, creativity and open mindedness correlate highly with professional success and personal happiness. So Ms. Moscowitz and her teachers may be teaching children to test well, but I wonder and worry about their lives when they lay down their pencils!
14
China is attempting to turn away from their culturally accepted drill and kill education model and is slowly, inexorably moving toward the type of education that is being destroyed by so-called reformers here, that which builds critical thinking skills and the creativity to think outside of the box. Parents in China that can afford the expense send their kids to America and other places so they can get an education that builds those capabilities. The hyper wealthy here are moving us in the opposite direction as they do not value an educated populace but do want a system that lets them extract our tax dollars from public schools.
2
There is one reality here -- if the students do not develop their skills while they are young. they will always be behind the students who worked hard to develop their skills. The Success Academy Charter schools are training these kids to compete and to win. They should be congratulated and copied -- not criticized. If all NYC schools were run like this, we would probably have fewer prisons.
5
Most NYC public schools can't be run like Success Schools. Public schools must educate all students. If you don't think they should do so, then say so and get the laws changed. But simply saying the Success model needs to be copied is not going to help.
5
I do not live in New York City any more. However if New York City voters ever get the opportunity to vote on this issue, they would overwhelmingly choose to have the NYC schools run along the same lines as the Success Academies. The present NYC Public School system is frankly is a disgrace.
1
I travel from downtown Manhattan to my home in the Bronx every weekday, and I can't begin to count the number of times I have seen out-of-control, loud and disrespectful behavior from SA middle schoolers at 125th Street (4, 5 and 6 train line). Most times, they are louder and more vulgar than even PS high school students. Obviously not all SA students are like this, but enough are that I begin to wonder how it is at other schools. This should clearly be the outlier not the norm but...well who can say for sure.
It doesn't make sense to push for hard-core discipline if it's not helping these kids self-monitor their behavior once they're off campus. Be firm. Say what you mean and mean what you say. But most of all make sure these lessons follow these kids outside of the classroom, and aren't just being given to be given.
I wish SA and other charters like it would stop treating elementary school kids like they’re in prison or boot camp. They’re not. I worked very briefly at a charter school (not Success) in Harlem and they employed nearly all of the same tactics detailed in this article. Why is it that public and private schools with wealthy, predominately white students don't have to enact even a 1/10 of these tactics? Growing up poor and without many resources is difficult (I did the same) but does that mean that black and Hispanic students can only thrive after beating them wary through cringe-worthy discipline? There MUST be some other way.
It doesn't make sense to push for hard-core discipline if it's not helping these kids self-monitor their behavior once they're off campus. Be firm. Say what you mean and mean what you say. But most of all make sure these lessons follow these kids outside of the classroom, and aren't just being given to be given.
I wish SA and other charters like it would stop treating elementary school kids like they’re in prison or boot camp. They’re not. I worked very briefly at a charter school (not Success) in Harlem and they employed nearly all of the same tactics detailed in this article. Why is it that public and private schools with wealthy, predominately white students don't have to enact even a 1/10 of these tactics? Growing up poor and without many resources is difficult (I did the same) but does that mean that black and Hispanic students can only thrive after beating them wary through cringe-worthy discipline? There MUST be some other way.
17
Probably because in those "other environments" - children are already expected to behave - so there is less need for the school to do it.
1
Readers keep pointing out that "Success Academy's model may produce top scores, but does it produce happy students who have a depth of knowledge and passion for learning?"
Well, lets compare it to the PS system which doesn't produce happy students with knowledge and passion and which don't do well on tests or have basic competence in Math and English either.
At least Success has at least one out of two. You can get a job and rise above poverty with basic competence in Math and English, but not with the education the PS system is currently providing.
In addition, the public schools are a failure with low educational rates, poor test scores, poor graduation rates, and poor success. Until the defenders of that system put forth significant changes which can compete with Charter schools or improve their results, they should stop criticizing. I think it was Einstein who defined idiocy as doing the same thing over and over and expecting the result to change.
Moreover, success in life depends on tests. SAT, GMAT, LSAT, MCAT, Bar Exam, Medical Exam. Get over the fear of tests and embrace them as a necessary skill. Stop avoiding tests so you can't be measured and hide behind excuses for failure.
While you can argue that high turnover is an indication of failure, low turnover is too when it allows poor teachers to stay in place.
It is an indictment of the PS system that the Success teachers wash out at Success and are successful in the PS system.
Well, lets compare it to the PS system which doesn't produce happy students with knowledge and passion and which don't do well on tests or have basic competence in Math and English either.
At least Success has at least one out of two. You can get a job and rise above poverty with basic competence in Math and English, but not with the education the PS system is currently providing.
In addition, the public schools are a failure with low educational rates, poor test scores, poor graduation rates, and poor success. Until the defenders of that system put forth significant changes which can compete with Charter schools or improve their results, they should stop criticizing. I think it was Einstein who defined idiocy as doing the same thing over and over and expecting the result to change.
Moreover, success in life depends on tests. SAT, GMAT, LSAT, MCAT, Bar Exam, Medical Exam. Get over the fear of tests and embrace them as a necessary skill. Stop avoiding tests so you can't be measured and hide behind excuses for failure.
While you can argue that high turnover is an indication of failure, low turnover is too when it allows poor teachers to stay in place.
It is an indictment of the PS system that the Success teachers wash out at Success and are successful in the PS system.
9
You are only a kid for few precious years but most people will work decades of their life with the pressures of milestones and evaluations. It sounds like these kids are already little wage less workers at the young age of eight years old. The regimen sounds good but a little extreme. Maybe the addition of a foreign language and a little less emphasis of test taking could create an excellent charter school model. If the majority of my childhood memories were sitting still at a desk taking tests, I would feel cheated, even if I did get into a great university.
2
Insane. Thank you times & it's about time you showed it as it is.
By the way, from 76 to 91%in one year? ( or was it 71 to 96?- I have to check back)--not possible. Monkey business there, I'd wager.
By the way, from 76 to 91%in one year? ( or was it 71 to 96?- I have to check back)--not possible. Monkey business there, I'd wager.
6
My daughter attends a Success Academy school. Yes: she gets tested regularly, but I see that as a genuine plus as we can work with her teachers to improve in the areas where she is struggling. Yes: there is discipline, which means that she benefits from a quiet and calm classroom where every minute matters.
She has science every day with blocks, dance, chess, art and sports built into the curriculum. Her class go on field trips every other week. Far from having her creativity stifled, she is learning to experiment, question relentlessly and think critically. Her school also places emphasis on respect and integrity.
She loves her teachers and going to school. I could not wish for a better education for her and I fully expect her to continue to thrive. For us, Success Academy is an educational utopia. The shame here is that it is not available to more children.
She has science every day with blocks, dance, chess, art and sports built into the curriculum. Her class go on field trips every other week. Far from having her creativity stifled, she is learning to experiment, question relentlessly and think critically. Her school also places emphasis on respect and integrity.
She loves her teachers and going to school. I could not wish for a better education for her and I fully expect her to continue to thrive. For us, Success Academy is an educational utopia. The shame here is that it is not available to more children.
26
Kate - thank you for a first-hand opinion.
Interesting that there's so few "recommends" on your post. I imagine the naysayers would rather not hear your opinion.
Oh well, more opportunity for your daughter. All the best.
Interesting that there's so few "recommends" on your post. I imagine the naysayers would rather not hear your opinion.
Oh well, more opportunity for your daughter. All the best.
3
If Success Academy schools are really as great at wealthy private schools, why aren't wealthy parents sending their kids to these schools?
10
Wealthy parents do send their children to Success schools. We have schools on the Upper West Side, Cobble Hill, Union Square, Hell's Kitchen, and Williamsburg
1
I am a parent of a Success Academy (SA) student who is happy and thriving because of the dedication of the staff at our school. When I read articles on SA, I never get to read the view that my family is experiencing at the school.
What about our side of the story?
The side where we feel lucky to be at SA. Why was moving or sending our child to a failing school the only options available until we got the lottery for SA?
As for SA?
The negatives that are ALWAYS in articles about SA are, in truth, quite thin as arguments if you truly know the school as a family who is part of it. If you are outside the school, then all you can believe is the negative hype. You don't know any better.
When signing up for SA, you are fully aware of the rigorous approach to education in complete and full knowledge of the long days and nightly homework. What is a surprise about the school is the utter dedication the staff has for the students in partnership with the families. Our teacher's work very hard to make sure the students are progressing and achieving and being all that they can be as cognitive individuals. The other surprise is the sheer love of school the students display. My child does not want to miss a day of learning as she says. She is asked to be polite to the teachers, staff and other students. And, what is so wrong with that? The fact the school asks the children to work hard and be respectful is something I cherish. I wish there were more of "our stories" when discussing the SA.
What about our side of the story?
The side where we feel lucky to be at SA. Why was moving or sending our child to a failing school the only options available until we got the lottery for SA?
As for SA?
The negatives that are ALWAYS in articles about SA are, in truth, quite thin as arguments if you truly know the school as a family who is part of it. If you are outside the school, then all you can believe is the negative hype. You don't know any better.
When signing up for SA, you are fully aware of the rigorous approach to education in complete and full knowledge of the long days and nightly homework. What is a surprise about the school is the utter dedication the staff has for the students in partnership with the families. Our teacher's work very hard to make sure the students are progressing and achieving and being all that they can be as cognitive individuals. The other surprise is the sheer love of school the students display. My child does not want to miss a day of learning as she says. She is asked to be polite to the teachers, staff and other students. And, what is so wrong with that? The fact the school asks the children to work hard and be respectful is something I cherish. I wish there were more of "our stories" when discussing the SA.
26
If you choose not to invest in the public schools, then you should be paying for your child's education. I see no need to subsidize your child's specials, while then having to pay for my children's specials, while you do no fundraising.
I also wonder how many Success Academy parents are aware of the disinvestment in public schools during the Bloomberg Administration. SA parents like to throw around the term "failing schools", but how many realize that the Bloomberg Administration purposely chose to favor charter schools over public schools, thus presenting charter schools as the only "choice" in some communities?
My children attend a DOE school. They love going to school every day. Their teachers are fantastic. The curriculum is rigorous. They have specials and go on field trips. Yet, all we hear from ignorant charter school advocates is how the public schools are "failing." We have to fight Governor Cuomo for equal funding. Then, we have to hear SA parents whine about not getting their side of the story published. I've really had enough.
I also wonder how many Success Academy parents are aware of the disinvestment in public schools during the Bloomberg Administration. SA parents like to throw around the term "failing schools", but how many realize that the Bloomberg Administration purposely chose to favor charter schools over public schools, thus presenting charter schools as the only "choice" in some communities?
My children attend a DOE school. They love going to school every day. Their teachers are fantastic. The curriculum is rigorous. They have specials and go on field trips. Yet, all we hear from ignorant charter school advocates is how the public schools are "failing." We have to fight Governor Cuomo for equal funding. Then, we have to hear SA parents whine about not getting their side of the story published. I've really had enough.
9
Thank you, Tina for your first-hand experience.
The reason your story isn't told is because it doesn't fit the mass-media hype.
But keep on being a supportive parent - there is no other single ingredient as important as that one.
The reason your story isn't told is because it doesn't fit the mass-media hype.
But keep on being a supportive parent - there is no other single ingredient as important as that one.
3
If you had read my comment correctly. I said, I personally had no other choice but a failing school or to move. I was ZONED for a failing "F" school despite my child having a 99% on G&T and not getting the lottery for G&T. She was zoned for a failing school. Our only other choice was to move. My story not everyones but it is my story whether or not you like it.
I find it interesting that you resort to name calling by saying I am ignorant and whiney. I would say to you only this, "I am very happy that you are at a good school. That's great news."
I too am in a great public school that asks the children to work hard and as a result, they learn. My child goes to school for a very long day and then does homework at night. This is why they have good test results! I am thrilled that she is in a good school and I think that side of the story should be told. Talk about how hard these kids work to achieve what they achieve.
I find it interesting that you resort to name calling by saying I am ignorant and whiney. I would say to you only this, "I am very happy that you are at a good school. That's great news."
I too am in a great public school that asks the children to work hard and as a result, they learn. My child goes to school for a very long day and then does homework at night. This is why they have good test results! I am thrilled that she is in a good school and I think that side of the story should be told. Talk about how hard these kids work to achieve what they achieve.
4
I am a product of public school - from elementary to post-graduate degree, all my education was obtained at public institutions. So I am usually a strong supporter of the public school system.
However, I think we need to keep an open mind and see what kind of results Success Academy produce in the long term. As the article noted, even the first graduates are still in high school. Let's see how well they do in higher education and later life. Education is too important to let ideology dictate method.
However, I think we need to keep an open mind and see what kind of results Success Academy produce in the long term. As the article noted, even the first graduates are still in high school. Let's see how well they do in higher education and later life. Education is too important to let ideology dictate method.
5
There is a double-loop to learning - structure, disciple, and hard-work is the first loop on which the second loop of creativity and intrinsic motivation will feed off. If Success sets the kids on a firm path on the first loop, the second one - where kids pick up books to read on their own initiative, become curious learners and enjoy learning for its own sake could potentially kick in. But without that first loop, the second one will never materialize.
5
Perhaps the biggest obscenity of these "no excuses" charter schools is the way the fierce, desperate hope the parents have for their children has been exploited, the way they have been fooled by a crypto fear-mongering sales pitch that makes them complicit in accepting a separate and obviously inferior education. They have been tricked into accepting the racist narrative of "the white man's burden", into internalizing the racist subtext that they are lazy, incapable of doing right by their own children and so their poverty is their own fault. Their lack of agency and access to information has been exploited to the detriment of their kids via the false promise that their children will be just as well prepared for life, the exercise of citizenship, and to get good jobs as children who receive a far better education at schools that are not test prep/test score factories. As has been pointed out by others here, name one single elite school of any type anywhere in the world that uses these tactics. There aren't any. For reference, some cultural differences aside, China has a education system quite similar to this and the parents who can afford it send their kids to American schools instead because in China the result is the same as at Success and other charters, no critical thinking skills and no creativity. The gov't is aggressively turning away from all that in favor of the way we used to educate, before the "reformers" saw public education as yet another cash cow to milk.
12
Wonderful comment!
I have yet to meet a parent who does not their child to have better opportunities than they did. Student whose parents have entered them into a lottery for Success Academy are highly motivated. SA because of the favorable governance environment created and enabled by Mayor Bloomberg and Governor Cuomo are able to access public education monies (federal, state and city) and educate only children who do well on reading and math tests in a particular environment. At the end of the day of the day, are we creating a better public school system? NYC for most of the twentieth century had a public school system that was the great equalizer between rich and poor. In the twenty first century we are creating a public school system that will ill prepare children for college and career. The gap between rich and poor will only widen.
3
SACS has high expectations. But for what? It matters. I hope that as Ms. Moskowitz learns more, SACS will become a learning organization that serves students like successful schools do.
Success is readiness for college and career and the choice-making attending it. SACS has high expectations for the short-term: behavior and standardized test scores. OK. Replacing nothing with something is better than nothing. But it won't get to the long-term college and career goal. For that kids must think critically and creatively, collaborate, problem solve, and communicate.
The extreme suspension rate is a red flag showing they target misbehavior well, but fail to help students control their own behavior through positive interventions. Helping kids learn self-control is more involved than simply controlling them yourself or kicking them out.
And the extreme behavior control: I've seen the tactic many times, always with mostly black and brown children who are also "socioeconomically disadvantaged." Eyes down, hands folded, boys separated from girls, speak when spoken to. Public humiliation. Try that in a school of whites who are not SED. Wouldn't happen. I'll call this what it is: racist. And don’t tell me “these kids need it.”
Black and brown and SED kids learn at a high levels when they are respected as learners. All kids do. SACS replaced nothing with something. I hope they get to the rest.
Success is readiness for college and career and the choice-making attending it. SACS has high expectations for the short-term: behavior and standardized test scores. OK. Replacing nothing with something is better than nothing. But it won't get to the long-term college and career goal. For that kids must think critically and creatively, collaborate, problem solve, and communicate.
The extreme suspension rate is a red flag showing they target misbehavior well, but fail to help students control their own behavior through positive interventions. Helping kids learn self-control is more involved than simply controlling them yourself or kicking them out.
And the extreme behavior control: I've seen the tactic many times, always with mostly black and brown children who are also "socioeconomically disadvantaged." Eyes down, hands folded, boys separated from girls, speak when spoken to. Public humiliation. Try that in a school of whites who are not SED. Wouldn't happen. I'll call this what it is: racist. And don’t tell me “these kids need it.”
Black and brown and SED kids learn at a high levels when they are respected as learners. All kids do. SACS replaced nothing with something. I hope they get to the rest.
4
Success Academy Charter schools is nothing but sheer exploitation dressed up to appear philanthropic....
By the way when Eva Moskowitz tried to sell this to Upper Westside parents (predominately white and affluent) they rejected her vociferously. You never heard anything else about it.
As always, blacks are the ones being duped. Feeding shortsightedness, ignorance, and dividing communities.
They are all making money with no accountablity, otherwise the issue of educating black children would be moot...
By the way when Eva Moskowitz tried to sell this to Upper Westside parents (predominately white and affluent) they rejected her vociferously. You never heard anything else about it.
As always, blacks are the ones being duped. Feeding shortsightedness, ignorance, and dividing communities.
They are all making money with no accountablity, otherwise the issue of educating black children would be moot...
9
That's a bold claim that all these people are being duped. It's the public schools that have no accountability, being allowed to fail our children for decades.
1
Alex@ Yes they are being duped, played upon because of their desire to see their children have an adequate education.
Public schools are the way they are because of the establishment, white establishment, that has no real desire to improve the condition of schools for black/brown children.
Now that they see a way to turn a buck, after the most vulnerable. Parents who have been led to believe that education for their children alone is all that matters. Fomenting selfishness and divisiveness among a traditionally marginalized group. Neighbor against neighbor, parent against parent...
An old story of duplicity...
Public schools are the way they are because of the establishment, white establishment, that has no real desire to improve the condition of schools for black/brown children.
Now that they see a way to turn a buck, after the most vulnerable. Parents who have been led to believe that education for their children alone is all that matters. Fomenting selfishness and divisiveness among a traditionally marginalized group. Neighbor against neighbor, parent against parent...
An old story of duplicity...
1
I visited Success Academy last year and was inspired and amazed by the quality of teaching and learning in the classrooms. Students were answering questions in complete sentences, they were very skilled at citing evidence and providing rationale for their answers, and they were very encouraging towards their classmates. The fact that Eva is controversial and that testing has become quite controversial is a distraction from what matters most: Success Academy students are getting an excellent education in every sense of the work.
15
An obsession with test scores may produce better scores in the short run, but will not result in true education that will serve children or society well.
The cost of feeding the obsession is enormous: extreme stress, public shaming, punishment, cruelty, material rewards, limited curriculum, and exploitation of staff.
This is a short-sighted, unhealthy, and abusive environment that cannot possibly be characterized as education... Stop the madness.
The cost of feeding the obsession is enormous: extreme stress, public shaming, punishment, cruelty, material rewards, limited curriculum, and exploitation of staff.
This is a short-sighted, unhealthy, and abusive environment that cannot possibly be characterized as education... Stop the madness.
7
A twenty three year old teacher, fresh and inexperienced herself, stopped looking over the shoulders of an 'underachieving fourth grade boy taking a math quiz, whose results would be publicly pushed so the whole class could see his low grade,"so she would not get upset by his continued mistakes."
And what exactly is she upset about- her failure to motivate the boy, her failure to teach the boy the material, or the fact that he is bringing the class test statistics down- read that as un-success at Success Academy?
And what exactly is she upset about- her failure to motivate the boy, her failure to teach the boy the material, or the fact that he is bringing the class test statistics down- read that as un-success at Success Academy?
5
The test scores at these schools should be compared to the test scores at Magnet Schools, not to the test scores at schools that take care of the general population! I wish reporters would be a bit more careful quoting numbers provided by CEO's.
The students at these type of charter schools are self motivated, pushed by parents, driven out if poorly performing, and in general belong to a very small subset of the students served by the public schools. Yes - these schools perform like private schools because they are private schools for a select few. I am glad that they provide a home for a small number of highly motivated kids, but they provide no useful lessons for normal public schools, and certainly cannot replace them. In fact, they do some harm by siphoning off the best of the best from the public schools.
The students at these type of charter schools are self motivated, pushed by parents, driven out if poorly performing, and in general belong to a very small subset of the students served by the public schools. Yes - these schools perform like private schools because they are private schools for a select few. I am glad that they provide a home for a small number of highly motivated kids, but they provide no useful lessons for normal public schools, and certainly cannot replace them. In fact, they do some harm by siphoning off the best of the best from the public schools.
10
It appears that hard work and rigor are anathema to so may Times readers who object to the unfairness and the stress of having to work hard and compete. However, some people have to succeed in society to support all those Times readers expecting their "fair share" of the work output of others.
1
I don't object to hard work. I object to adults humiliating children. I object to adults creating situations in which students have bathroom accidents at school.
4
This little tidbit of information should be front and center, not buried at the end of this article:
"At Success Academy Harlem 2 last year, 91 percent of students passed the state math tests, up from 76 percent the previous year. At Public School 30, which shares the building with Success Academy Harlem 2, 16 percent of students passed."
Results matter... in education and in life.
"At Success Academy Harlem 2 last year, 91 percent of students passed the state math tests, up from 76 percent the previous year. At Public School 30, which shares the building with Success Academy Harlem 2, 16 percent of students passed."
Results matter... in education and in life.
3
Oh, for Pete's sake, AGAIN:
SA doesn't have to take any student it doesn't want to take, and can kick out students for any reason at any time.
Public schools can't. Thus, the variance.
Why conflate the two when they are incomparable? How is that logical?
SA doesn't have to take any student it doesn't want to take, and can kick out students for any reason at any time.
Public schools can't. Thus, the variance.
Why conflate the two when they are incomparable? How is that logical?
1
SA isn't perfect. But what is the alternative for parents in districts where their only other option are failing public schools? It is not as if disadvantaged kids are having to choose between SA, a great liberal arts school with focus on critical thinking, or another one with holistic no-test policy. We are talking about a PS with barely 1 in 20 kids able to write or do simple math!
For these parents, charter schools maybe their only tickets out of the vicious cycle of poverty, are you going to take THAT away? Parents with means have already self selected themselves out of poor districts. The ones left behind did not stay there by choice. Why is it ok for rich parents to self select themselves out of poor PS, but not for parents who opted for charter schools?
And for all those critical of test prep. I have yet to meet a child who could do an algebra question without understanding fractions and decimals, and to do fractions and decimals , you need to understand simple arithmetic. I.e. you need to understand fundamentals in order to do well in the test, what is wrong with that?
For these parents, charter schools maybe their only tickets out of the vicious cycle of poverty, are you going to take THAT away? Parents with means have already self selected themselves out of poor districts. The ones left behind did not stay there by choice. Why is it ok for rich parents to self select themselves out of poor PS, but not for parents who opted for charter schools?
And for all those critical of test prep. I have yet to meet a child who could do an algebra question without understanding fractions and decimals, and to do fractions and decimals , you need to understand simple arithmetic. I.e. you need to understand fundamentals in order to do well in the test, what is wrong with that?
5
After taking a tour of the local "success" academy for my son, it occurred to me that now I know what it must be like to grow up in North Korea. Teaching infused with creepy indoctrination and Orwellian convolution of language -- starting with calling students "scholars." As if you can earn that title by just calling yourself that. My ex-wife, who joined me on the tour, and I don't agree on much, but one thing was certain -- we would never subject the child we love to this madness.
12
This is really horrifying and makes me feel absolutely sick.
If you read the language from this charter system's teachers and higher ups carefully, there is such an expectation that children will try to get out of working hard or that they deserved to be punished if they don't do well. Some of the allegations discussed so calmly in this article - kids not being allowed to go to the toilet during tests and therefore wetting themselves - is simply child abuse. We've seen over and over again that punishment and rigid controlling has an awful outcome on mental health, life competency, and future success.
How is this slipping under the radar? Is it because we're only capable of seeing the faults of this kind of system if it's in Asia? Is it because the powers that be believe that people of a certain class and/or race just "need a firm guiding hand"? Which century is this?!
The oldest students of these schools are still in school, but mark my words, any follow-up studies on these students will find increased rates of mental health issues, decreased life satisfaction, and all kinds of awful fall-out. Bullying people into perfect test takers never ends well.
If you read the language from this charter system's teachers and higher ups carefully, there is such an expectation that children will try to get out of working hard or that they deserved to be punished if they don't do well. Some of the allegations discussed so calmly in this article - kids not being allowed to go to the toilet during tests and therefore wetting themselves - is simply child abuse. We've seen over and over again that punishment and rigid controlling has an awful outcome on mental health, life competency, and future success.
How is this slipping under the radar? Is it because we're only capable of seeing the faults of this kind of system if it's in Asia? Is it because the powers that be believe that people of a certain class and/or race just "need a firm guiding hand"? Which century is this?!
The oldest students of these schools are still in school, but mark my words, any follow-up studies on these students will find increased rates of mental health issues, decreased life satisfaction, and all kinds of awful fall-out. Bullying people into perfect test takers never ends well.
10
Perhaps Success Academy will reward their "effective" teachers with pay commiserate with their 11-12 hours days, and afford at least some of them modest tenure protections. Or simply continue to rip through recent college grads at an alarming pace, treating both teachers and children as simple input variables in a corporate plan of attack.
8
Do you know what Success Academy proves? It proves that active, involved parents and guardians make all the difference. They really do. So why make Success students endure such a rigid, test-driven approach? If the purpose is to educate these kids is it really necessary?
3
Many years ago my family moved from the U.S. to Asia for my father's job. At the time I was attending a local public school after years spent in private schools. I had always been near the top of my class and listed on the honor roll.
My parents enrolled me at an international Catholic school in Taipei. I went from being at the top of my class to the bottom overnight. The students were far above me in nearly every area. I agonized as our test results were always posted; my dismal marks were terribly embarrassing. Expectations and rules had to be followed to the letter.
I hated every minute of it. For the first year I would go home and cry nearly every day. But my parents wouldn't let me quit. I studied harder than I ever had before. I paid attention in class, and I realized that the only way to ease my public embarrassment was to make sure I received good test marks by working hard at my studies. It was a life-saver for me. I learned to study and be accountable. I learned that kids in Asia were not necessarily smarter; they were EXPECTED to study and do well by their parents. We need more of that in the U.S. In order to compete globally, all children must be held to high standards of education. In the long run it is a far greater gift to one's future than the current standard.
My parents enrolled me at an international Catholic school in Taipei. I went from being at the top of my class to the bottom overnight. The students were far above me in nearly every area. I agonized as our test results were always posted; my dismal marks were terribly embarrassing. Expectations and rules had to be followed to the letter.
I hated every minute of it. For the first year I would go home and cry nearly every day. But my parents wouldn't let me quit. I studied harder than I ever had before. I paid attention in class, and I realized that the only way to ease my public embarrassment was to make sure I received good test marks by working hard at my studies. It was a life-saver for me. I learned to study and be accountable. I learned that kids in Asia were not necessarily smarter; they were EXPECTED to study and do well by their parents. We need more of that in the U.S. In order to compete globally, all children must be held to high standards of education. In the long run it is a far greater gift to one's future than the current standard.
6
You just explained the reason we have to import so much science and math talent into this country. They are concerned with results while here -school is supposed to feel like a theme park.
1
In looking at Ms. Moskowitz's core funders, it might be instructive to examine the purposes behind the establishment of free public education in two different places.
The Scots instituted a free public education for the common man and woman in the 17th century, so that every Scot could read the Bible for himself or herself, in the vernacular, and not be dependent on anyone's else's interpretation of Scripture. Education meant true intellectual freedom.
Public schooling in the US was primarily established to produce good citizens and later, good workers inculcated with the values that would make them obedient and efficient.
The business interests so firmly in Ms. Moscowitz's corner are not looking to develop creative thinkers, but rather a steady stream of good employees who do well in a hierarchical structure--with the rich guys, of course, at the top as always.
The Success Academies start early in rooting out individualism and making it wither. As the biographies of many truly successful scientists and researchers indicate, they were often unruly and difficult students because they fit no standard mold.
The terrible failures of the NYC public school system will not be remedied by a hideous proliferation of drone factories.
The Scots instituted a free public education for the common man and woman in the 17th century, so that every Scot could read the Bible for himself or herself, in the vernacular, and not be dependent on anyone's else's interpretation of Scripture. Education meant true intellectual freedom.
Public schooling in the US was primarily established to produce good citizens and later, good workers inculcated with the values that would make them obedient and efficient.
The business interests so firmly in Ms. Moscowitz's corner are not looking to develop creative thinkers, but rather a steady stream of good employees who do well in a hierarchical structure--with the rich guys, of course, at the top as always.
The Success Academies start early in rooting out individualism and making it wither. As the biographies of many truly successful scientists and researchers indicate, they were often unruly and difficult students because they fit no standard mold.
The terrible failures of the NYC public school system will not be remedied by a hideous proliferation of drone factories.
6
Kudos to the New York Times for doing an investigative piece on Success Academy.
One issue not mentioned here which bears noting is the manner in which Success Academy aggressively courts middle and upper-middle income families. In particular I noted that Success Academy advertising (print, direct mail, radio, and telephone booths) was heavy during the recent months of October, December, and January. These months correspond to testing and admissions deadlines for private schools and the G&T program.
In mid-December, we received a Success Academy direct mailing with my kindergarten-aged child's name on it. The only source of this information would have been the DOE. How is Success Academy able to access such information? Not to mention that it was two weeks before G&T testing was to start, and my child took the G&T test last year. Coincidence?? I think not. Then, this past week a local publication published a propaganda piece from Upper West Success Academy, boasting how many applicants they had from wealthier, whiter, zoned schools. So much for caring about poor kids of color trapped in "failing" schools!!
It's time to drop the pretense that charter schools like Success Academy actually care about poor children of color. It's just a ruse to steal public funds and public space in order to enrich hedge fund managers and to feed the narcissistic ambitions of those who lead them.
One issue not mentioned here which bears noting is the manner in which Success Academy aggressively courts middle and upper-middle income families. In particular I noted that Success Academy advertising (print, direct mail, radio, and telephone booths) was heavy during the recent months of October, December, and January. These months correspond to testing and admissions deadlines for private schools and the G&T program.
In mid-December, we received a Success Academy direct mailing with my kindergarten-aged child's name on it. The only source of this information would have been the DOE. How is Success Academy able to access such information? Not to mention that it was two weeks before G&T testing was to start, and my child took the G&T test last year. Coincidence?? I think not. Then, this past week a local publication published a propaganda piece from Upper West Success Academy, boasting how many applicants they had from wealthier, whiter, zoned schools. So much for caring about poor kids of color trapped in "failing" schools!!
It's time to drop the pretense that charter schools like Success Academy actually care about poor children of color. It's just a ruse to steal public funds and public space in order to enrich hedge fund managers and to feed the narcissistic ambitions of those who lead them.
12
It concerns me that Ms. Moskowitz responds to questions by attacking the questioner, changing the subject, and posing strawman diversions. When asked about the intensive focus on test prep, she accuses the questioner of not being aware that rich kids have tutors. When asked about regimentation, she states that "some people" might prefer chaos - as if there was nothing between military order and chaos. When asked about the large teacher attrition she insinuates that those who leave are "angry." None of these responses addresses the question in good faith. Leaders who won't answer perfectly reasonable questions either have something to hide or feel they are unaccountable. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
21
On the subject of punitive discipline: a student who hits others, or even one who's just so relentlessly disruptive that learning can't happen, probably SHOULD be removed from class. It's not fair to the other kids to hold them back in order to give the badly-behaving kids endless chances.
But the fact is, public schools are generally required to do that, and charters are generally allowed to get rid of pretty much anybody they want (in practice, if not always on paper). And the ONLY reason Moskowitz gets better test scores out of her students is because she can get rid of students she doesn't want and send them back to public schools that are required to take them. The test scores are mostly based on out-of-school factors; the "successful" charters aren't creating high scores, but rather grouping them together and hogging credit for them.
But the fact is, public schools are generally required to do that, and charters are generally allowed to get rid of pretty much anybody they want (in practice, if not always on paper). And the ONLY reason Moskowitz gets better test scores out of her students is because she can get rid of students she doesn't want and send them back to public schools that are required to take them. The test scores are mostly based on out-of-school factors; the "successful" charters aren't creating high scores, but rather grouping them together and hogging credit for them.
7
I wonder if Eva ever read "Beyond the Melting Pot" by Pat Moynihan and Daniel Glazer.
For these children to succeed they will need intelligent parents who make enough money to live on, and who spend their evenings engaged with and supportive of their children's education, that doesn't mean rallies with tee shirts. If that's not there this is all hokum pushed by Andy "the empty suit" Cuomo.
For these children to succeed they will need intelligent parents who make enough money to live on, and who spend their evenings engaged with and supportive of their children's education, that doesn't mean rallies with tee shirts. If that's not there this is all hokum pushed by Andy "the empty suit" Cuomo.
7
SA ought to try mixing models. Half a day in the straight jacket; half day where the teachers only ask questions, compare answers, and don't give answers. They also should go to a bi lingual model- half a day in English, half a day in Spanish or another language. Finally the might consider one semester in the straight jacket and one semester without grades but only evaluations and projects. Try it you might like it.
2
The results of the Success schools seem very encouraging. I would be curious to see what is done with a student who is making his or her best effort, but is not making the grade or is fidgety of displays dyslexia or ADD. Are there services for such a child?
2
Children who cannot be regimented are "counseled out" or expelled.
1
The major reason these schools are "successful" is because they "counsel out" or expel students who cannot conform to this rigid regimentation.
1
Their method only works with a certain type of child. If you have a smart kid with low muscle tone it is cruel to demand they sit holding up their torso and clasping their hands. If the child suffers from poor tracking they will routinely misspell words even if they study. If a child has dysgraphia they will find it fatiguing to write and will make errors due to this. The only kids that succeed in this environment are the kids that aren't being challenged by anything other than being born poor and living in the wrong school zone. I do applaud the high expectations and discipline I just think if they really wanted to save all kids and level the playing field for the learning challenged they would incorporate the failing kids instead of driving them to quit the school. Find out the true reason by testing for learning disabilities which many times is totally unrelated to intelligence
5
It is hilarious to hear the critics in this article and some of the comments in this section. These are the same people who wring their hands and complain that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in terms of educational attainment. These are the same people who complain that students from India and China are getting into our best colleges and taking jobs away from Americans. Do you know why places like India and China produce such successful students? It's because of the study habits they develop over many years so that they can pass the tough exams and compete with millions of other kids. "Public shaming" is commonplace ... in India, the scores of the entire class are posted on a bulletin board for everyone to see.
I am really happy to see Success Academy succeed many public schools have failed. The methods they have adopted are unconventional, but effective; they also instill values and a respect for authority in the students, something a lot of public schools don't. I am also pleased with the evaluation system they have for teachers - based on meritocracy with the ability to rise quickly (like corporate America) versus being tied to the tenure system.
I am really happy to see Success Academy succeed many public schools have failed. The methods they have adopted are unconventional, but effective; they also instill values and a respect for authority in the students, something a lot of public schools don't. I am also pleased with the evaluation system they have for teachers - based on meritocracy with the ability to rise quickly (like corporate America) versus being tied to the tenure system.
10
" These are the same people who wring their hands and complain that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in terms of educational attainment."
I believe that upper and upper middle class US students compare favorably with any in the world
I believe that upper and upper middle class US students compare favorably with any in the world
2
These methods aren't "unconventional" -- they have been used by no excuses charter schools for decades! The only thing unconventional is the speed in which certain students are counseled out and how few are every replaced. And the money to buy lots of specially designed test prep. If this system was so good, why isn't ever other charter school adopting it and getting the same results?
1
Go through the worst schools and test which kids can "sit with hands clasped and eyes following the speaker" for the duration of a lesson. Take those kids who pass this one test and put them in a separate facility away from the rowdy kids, and you will see similar results. There's no magic here, and to those who decry successful charters I would ask, don't well behaved children with no other options deserve a more humane environment than the chaos of zoned public schools? The rich and middle class can vote with their feet; poor kids can't.
6
There are so many more options than this repressive atmosphere. There are options that allow children to be children -- creative and playful. And none of these options shame children.
I think your point is so important--the kids who can sit still should not be brought to a standstill by the kids who can't. But the kids who can't are too valuable to be lost to us. As a society we can't fail so many children and survive. As a parent I won't let my child be stuck in a system that won't work for him as New Yorker I can't stand by as we fail so many.
A charter school may be the answer for a child or a family it is not the answer for our city.
A charter school may be the answer for a child or a family it is not the answer for our city.
I was truly horrified to read this story. If Ms. Moskowitz and her teachers think that education is about shaming poorly preforming students and military like test prep is what education is all about, I recommend they find another profession. Teachers should be there to support students and inspire learning, not drill it into them. Instead of scaring, shaming, and 'buying' students, teachers at SA should inspire them to learn.
5
Carrot-and-stick, teaching to the test – but the kids are learning how to learn. Government demands high test scores and closes schools that don't perform, yet doesn't provide the funding needed to operate a school properly (supplies, maintenance, art, music, etc.), and doesn't fire incompetent teachers.
This is an extreme case of backlash, but it's to be expected - adults deciding that children should act like adults. Surely the ideal is somewhere between poor public schools and this kind of rigidity. Children deserve good schools and good teachers, but learning should not be a traumatic experience.
Passing tests is not the purpose of school. At its heart, school is about teaching students how to learn. Learning should be fun and should be designed to take advantage of children's natural playfulness and openness. Children are NOT adults and shouldn't be made to behave like adults.
This is an extreme case of backlash, but it's to be expected - adults deciding that children should act like adults. Surely the ideal is somewhere between poor public schools and this kind of rigidity. Children deserve good schools and good teachers, but learning should not be a traumatic experience.
Passing tests is not the purpose of school. At its heart, school is about teaching students how to learn. Learning should be fun and should be designed to take advantage of children's natural playfulness and openness. Children are NOT adults and shouldn't be made to behave like adults.
1
The "superior results" touted in the headline are merely robotic behaviors instilled in young people. Passing these inane tests (the scores of which can easily be manipulated by politicians and testing companies) is no indicator of genuine education.
Having been a teacher I know that you can create learners who can pass tests. However, that's about all they'll be able to do. And once you remove that pressure, they won't even be able to do that.
We need genuine education and self regulated learners, not terrified robots who only know how to jump through hoops.
Having been a teacher I know that you can create learners who can pass tests. However, that's about all they'll be able to do. And once you remove that pressure, they won't even be able to do that.
We need genuine education and self regulated learners, not terrified robots who only know how to jump through hoops.
2
As a former Success Employee who worked out of the "network" office in Harlem, I can't comment on how students are treated, but I can address how employees are treated: without a whole lot of respect.
In my time there, I witnessed Eva describing an employee as "heavy" and criticizing her clothing in a mass e-mail. I witnessed people working 14-hour days and having their time wasted by endless management training. Much of management is very condescending to the young people who are doing the lion's share of the work.
A lot of wonderful people work at Success, and I admire their mission. But in the end, it was not an environment that I could imagine working in for more than a few months.
In my time there, I witnessed Eva describing an employee as "heavy" and criticizing her clothing in a mass e-mail. I witnessed people working 14-hour days and having their time wasted by endless management training. Much of management is very condescending to the young people who are doing the lion's share of the work.
A lot of wonderful people work at Success, and I admire their mission. But in the end, it was not an environment that I could imagine working in for more than a few months.
24
Some SA parents, like me, chose Success Academy over a district Gifted and Talented program, after getting accepted into both. To me it was about the richness of its curriculum, motivated and easily approachable staff, involved parents, ability to sit in my child’s classroom and the confidence that classroom learning is not disrupted by discipline problems.
Starting from K, kids at Success Academy have DAILY science, lots of reading (must read 6 books a week), art, chess, monthly field trips, blocks (http://successacademies.org/building-problem-solving-skills-one-block-at... LOTS of fun events (the crazy hair day, Tooth Fairy, crazy socks day, etc…) and more.
So while the discipline at Success Academy perhaps feels a little “military-style”, the quality and the depth of learning certainly do not. My child learns critical thinking and reasoning skills, and I don’t see rote memorization or other robotic drilling techniques. Many SA kids I personally know enjoy learning and like going to school, and we see lots of happy faces – not sure why that didn’t come across from the photographs, but no, there is no “doom and gloom” at school.
The school is not perfect, and they should, among other things, improve on the balance of positive vs negative reinforcement, do away with the “no bathroom breaks during x” nonsense etc… Overall, Success Academy strengths far outweigh any concerns, in my opinion, and the school is a great fit for my child.
Starting from K, kids at Success Academy have DAILY science, lots of reading (must read 6 books a week), art, chess, monthly field trips, blocks (http://successacademies.org/building-problem-solving-skills-one-block-at... LOTS of fun events (the crazy hair day, Tooth Fairy, crazy socks day, etc…) and more.
So while the discipline at Success Academy perhaps feels a little “military-style”, the quality and the depth of learning certainly do not. My child learns critical thinking and reasoning skills, and I don’t see rote memorization or other robotic drilling techniques. Many SA kids I personally know enjoy learning and like going to school, and we see lots of happy faces – not sure why that didn’t come across from the photographs, but no, there is no “doom and gloom” at school.
The school is not perfect, and they should, among other things, improve on the balance of positive vs negative reinforcement, do away with the “no bathroom breaks during x” nonsense etc… Overall, Success Academy strengths far outweigh any concerns, in my opinion, and the school is a great fit for my child.
10
Being a "great fit" for a gifted child with parents who are very likely middle class and college educated is very different than being a "great fit" for the majority of students "trapped in failing public schools", as Eva Moskowitz likes to pretend her schools are there to serve.
Success Academy has every incentive to make sure your "gifted" child remains in the school. Success Academy has ever incentive to weed out the struggling learner. Making the test results of your students your reason to exist (and expand) leads to schools that educate only students who will do well naturally, or who can be bullied into doing well. Unfortunately, you can't bully a large number of at-risk students into become great test-takers, which is why Success Academy has moved into affluent neighborhoods and is so desperate to market to affluent students. People were starting to question why so many at-risk students were leaving their schools.
Success Academy has every incentive to make sure your "gifted" child remains in the school. Success Academy has ever incentive to weed out the struggling learner. Making the test results of your students your reason to exist (and expand) leads to schools that educate only students who will do well naturally, or who can be bullied into doing well. Unfortunately, you can't bully a large number of at-risk students into become great test-takers, which is why Success Academy has moved into affluent neighborhoods and is so desperate to market to affluent students. People were starting to question why so many at-risk students were leaving their schools.
1
After looking at the comments I doubt that very many parents of students at the profiled schools read the NY Times. In fact, I have yet to see a letter from a parent here. That is the difference. Many people here criticized the schools and their leadership, but I doubt many have lived the lives of these children. Growing up in poverty, maybe being raised by someone other than parents, having to deal with an unfair system and endless racism is no recipe for success. It's easy to criticize, but do you really know what you're talking about? I can say one thing; these children may have it hard now, but their chances of success dramatically increase because of the rigor of their education and anyone who opposes that is probably part of the problem, not the solution.
6
Charters are really about: "disrupting" the education market and dismantling public education, the backbone of our democracy. (see New Orleans and Philadelphia for shocking cautionary tales about charter schools).
How much do the Gates Foundation and these hedge fund managers really know about the complexities of real teaching and learning? Child brain development? Undiagnosed learning disabilities? Dyslexia, dysgraphia, varying learning styles and differences? Or about running schools in our economically and racially diverse, multi-faceted nation?
Corporate ed reformers go into poor communities, manipulate vulnerable parents after manhandling Congress and state legislatures, solidify their wealth and low tax rates, and sell parents on the fact that they are the ones who REALLY care and the awful public schools and teacher unions do not. And now they control of the conversation around education and focus on "fill in the bubble" tests as the barometer of all learning?
Public schools in middle class and upper middle class communities do very well.
Poverty is the issue.
Almost 25% of American children live inpoverty and corporate ed reformers are going to fix this by funding test prep academies?
Why not honestly address the underlying economic and social problems that created these neighborhoods and fund wrap around services to help the parents first?
Public education is the foundation of a functioning democracy.These groups are not altruistic in their "reform" efforts.
How much do the Gates Foundation and these hedge fund managers really know about the complexities of real teaching and learning? Child brain development? Undiagnosed learning disabilities? Dyslexia, dysgraphia, varying learning styles and differences? Or about running schools in our economically and racially diverse, multi-faceted nation?
Corporate ed reformers go into poor communities, manipulate vulnerable parents after manhandling Congress and state legislatures, solidify their wealth and low tax rates, and sell parents on the fact that they are the ones who REALLY care and the awful public schools and teacher unions do not. And now they control of the conversation around education and focus on "fill in the bubble" tests as the barometer of all learning?
Public schools in middle class and upper middle class communities do very well.
Poverty is the issue.
Almost 25% of American children live inpoverty and corporate ed reformers are going to fix this by funding test prep academies?
Why not honestly address the underlying economic and social problems that created these neighborhoods and fund wrap around services to help the parents first?
Public education is the foundation of a functioning democracy.These groups are not altruistic in their "reform" efforts.
12
"... really know about the complexities of real teaching and learning? Child brain development? Undiagnosed learning disabilities? Dyslexia, dysgraphia, ..."
I'll say it again: that's absolutely immaterial!
If a child has one of those, get them out of classes with
normal kids. Put them in classes by themselves where they get
teaching methods suited to their particular problem.
I'll say it again: that's absolutely immaterial!
If a child has one of those, get them out of classes with
normal kids. Put them in classes by themselves where they get
teaching methods suited to their particular problem.
Why do we celebrate sacrifice, rules, and yes, punishment when it come to sports, but somehow think school should be a pressure-free play ground?
I have a low-level admin job at a large corporate law firm and I am tested, monitored, mentored and observed continually.
For anyone interested in achievement the world is more competitive every day.
Deal with it or succumb to it.
I have a low-level admin job at a large corporate law firm and I am tested, monitored, mentored and observed continually.
For anyone interested in achievement the world is more competitive every day.
Deal with it or succumb to it.
6
Hmm. I thought there was at least one more option- work for change.
1
Honestly, in my school days, this was called "school".
6
As an emigrant currently working and residing in the US I find the commenter's responses intriguing. But I guess it resonates with the tone of the article that raises questions about the schools' methods.
This article resonates for an American audience, because, in the US, people, including children, put more emphasis on fun. As an emigrant, I have always found this to be a little bit shallow. Somehow, the pursuit of happiness got a bit sidetracked into an individualistic, self-centered pursuit of immediate self-gratification.
As a child of parents that used to give me extra-homework, didn't allow me to see the TV other colleagues saw, I lived to see its results (I am now so much more successful than my counterparts), and I know it works...
There is no success without stringent self-discipline. There is no stroke of genius without 100 strokes of trial and error, on and on...
I think results speak for themselves. Why are the commenters arguing whether this school will create creative individuals? I find that to be extremely insensitive. Children in poor neighborhoods have little chances to attend college. Let us all put this children through college, find them a job that disrupts the poverty cycle... and then they can be creative.
This article resonates for an American audience, because, in the US, people, including children, put more emphasis on fun. As an emigrant, I have always found this to be a little bit shallow. Somehow, the pursuit of happiness got a bit sidetracked into an individualistic, self-centered pursuit of immediate self-gratification.
As a child of parents that used to give me extra-homework, didn't allow me to see the TV other colleagues saw, I lived to see its results (I am now so much more successful than my counterparts), and I know it works...
There is no success without stringent self-discipline. There is no stroke of genius without 100 strokes of trial and error, on and on...
I think results speak for themselves. Why are the commenters arguing whether this school will create creative individuals? I find that to be extremely insensitive. Children in poor neighborhoods have little chances to attend college. Let us all put this children through college, find them a job that disrupts the poverty cycle... and then they can be creative.
8
I would like to have had an explanation of the financial structure unpinning the charter schools in NYC. Also salaries, benefits, etc.
3
This is institutional Tiger Momism. Yes, it works on some people -- whether teachers or students. But for others, it's dehumanizing and thus, demoralizing. You need to know if your child is a person who responds to these sorts of teaching methods without having their spirit broken. If they are, you need to find something more progressive. One size does not fit all.
4
What is very revealing is the sheer number of comments who are vehemently against Success Academy methods. Yet, no one is forced to attend. A student/family apply because they want to attend. Of course, for all the commentors here, please, don't apply. Send your child to public school or wherever. But if you aren't forced to attend Success Academy, simply stay away.
If the schools are truely poorly run, the results will show that, along with a decline in attendance and eventually, they will shut their doors. However, if they are successful, then they will achieve their target of 100 schools soon.
And still, even with 100 schools, you don't need to apply. You can just do it your way.
Good luck.
If the schools are truely poorly run, the results will show that, along with a decline in attendance and eventually, they will shut their doors. However, if they are successful, then they will achieve their target of 100 schools soon.
And still, even with 100 schools, you don't need to apply. You can just do it your way.
Good luck.
9
I am against Success Academy's methods because they are designed to weed out so many children whose parents are desperate to send them to the school. There should be major pressure on Success Academy to KEEP every student -- and not to IGNORE the 20% attrition rate in a single year (between 2nd and 3rd grade) that seems to be the case at their schools for low-income students. (They seem to have different rules for students at their schools for affluent students.)
If a charter school like Success Academy --- the recipient of millions in donations every year -- can't afford to teach the most difficult kids who seem to disappear from its' rolls, who is supposed to teach them?
If a charter school like Success Academy --- the recipient of millions in donations every year -- can't afford to teach the most difficult kids who seem to disappear from its' rolls, who is supposed to teach them?
2
No one is forced to attend, but we are all paying for this. Then there is the hedge fund money going to Albany to buy Success Academy preferential treatment, i.e. free rent. Several Success Academies had low enrollment, but were somehow allowed to stay open against SUNY Charter Institute rules. Charter advocates talk free market reform, but the real reason these schools have proliferated is abuse of political power and corruption.
2
Success Academy: Excessive Pressure to Accomplish. We overemphasize accomplishing. It can be come an obsession, always on our minds, or a compulsion: " I have to spend my time accomplishing this task or goal." We can't relax. We put too much pressure on children to produce accomplishments. This creates stress and anxiety for children. Excessive pressure to succeed through accomplishing can create stress and anxiety for the adults as well. It can lead to "burnout", to being depressed and without motivation. In placing too much importance on accomplishing, we invest too much of our SELF into it, and neglect other important aspects of our life.
Success Academy Charter Schools are missing the point of child development and appropriate education through their obsession with accomplishment on tests.
Jeffrey Bryan, LCSW
Success Academy Charter Schools are missing the point of child development and appropriate education through their obsession with accomplishment on tests.
Jeffrey Bryan, LCSW
2
High expectations of teachers, students and parents. Holding students accountable for academic and behavioral success. Providing appropriate incentives and disincentives for achievement. Students not allowed to disrupt others' learning by acting out. THIS is what it takes for children to succeed-- not constant coddling and being awarded trophies for nothing, while learning that they don't need to follow rules. Those who fret about "self esteem" wring their hands for nothing- kids whose self esteem is through the roof find themselves in a lot of trouble years down the road when they finally come to the jarring realization that they're not the special snowflakes they thought they were. Kudos to the SA network and those who support them.
7
The comment that students that leave after 4th grade are not replaced because the rest of the kids are too far behind really bothered me. No kid is too far behind to be taught. Apparently, even though charter schools advertise themselves as public schools, which have to take anyone that walks through the door, charter schools do get to pick and choose. If a parent wants to send their child to a charter school, go for it. But the charters should educate all, just like a public school.
5
As a public school educator in the inner city, I would never be able (let alone willing) to use the tactics described here. Others here have articulated well the two-tiered educational methods used (rigid low level conformism for poor children of color; creativity, individualism, etc for our elite).
What I'll comment on is the absurdity & corruption in the whole venture. Charter schools can kick out whomever they want. As a public school teacher, I get these 'rejects' often. We cannot turn anyone away. With open arms, we take our 'tired & poor, our hungry masses yearning to breathe free..." If we could circumvent laws as charter schools do, I'm certain we'd get far better success than charters, because our teachers are highly trained & in it as a career.
But we can't.
And should we? Ultimately, all a charter school does is make public schools even worse (since it takes funding away). So how is eternally kicking out the 'wretched refuse' solving a thing? The question is always, always: What shall we do with our weak, with our underserved, with those 'no one' wants? The unpretty, the not brilliant & dazzling? The homeless, the abandoned? They *deserve an education too.* Playing hot potato with them is in fact a gross obstruction of justice & utterly unAmerican.
Indeed, why not have charters for *these* children? Do the reverse--let public schools be for the brightest, for those with involved parents, & let charters work to support those who need help. Why not?
What I'll comment on is the absurdity & corruption in the whole venture. Charter schools can kick out whomever they want. As a public school teacher, I get these 'rejects' often. We cannot turn anyone away. With open arms, we take our 'tired & poor, our hungry masses yearning to breathe free..." If we could circumvent laws as charter schools do, I'm certain we'd get far better success than charters, because our teachers are highly trained & in it as a career.
But we can't.
And should we? Ultimately, all a charter school does is make public schools even worse (since it takes funding away). So how is eternally kicking out the 'wretched refuse' solving a thing? The question is always, always: What shall we do with our weak, with our underserved, with those 'no one' wants? The unpretty, the not brilliant & dazzling? The homeless, the abandoned? They *deserve an education too.* Playing hot potato with them is in fact a gross obstruction of justice & utterly unAmerican.
Indeed, why not have charters for *these* children? Do the reverse--let public schools be for the brightest, for those with involved parents, & let charters work to support those who need help. Why not?
6
OK....let me get this straight. Ms. Moskowitz's schools have less non-native speakers and less special education children. I'm also assuming the students who receive multiple suspensions end up in the public schools, correct?
The teachers teach to the test and after a couple of years move on if they can't get the high testing numbers required. I'm also guessing that in a couple years we'll be hearing about a cheating scandal like Atlanta due to the pressure on the teachers.
And, please, more info regarding the hedge funds: contributions to NY politicians, etc.
The teachers teach to the test and after a couple of years move on if they can't get the high testing numbers required. I'm also guessing that in a couple years we'll be hearing about a cheating scandal like Atlanta due to the pressure on the teachers.
And, please, more info regarding the hedge funds: contributions to NY politicians, etc.
8
These schools have a lot of conditions that would lead to successful outcomes -- resources, hand-picked teachers who can be forced to work extra hours without pay and fired if their students don't meet standards, on-board parents (who picked the school through a lottery), the ability to exclude difficult-to-teach students (like special ed., speakers of other languages, and students who are disruptive. They weed out their student population and don't replace those students after fourth grade. I'll bet if they didn't change anything except a requirement that only positive reinforcement was used, they would still have very high test scores. I am sure that students who score well are very happy here -- they are heroes, they get toys. Credit that to positive reinforcement. But the students that are constantly shamed must include a lot of kids showing symptoms of PTSD! The founder seems to credit the school's success on the use of negative reinforce, rather than all of the other advantages her schools have.
2
Students learn in moments of joy. Pressure is the worst thing for the brain in the "young" child. This school is an example of "test" driven education. We don't care about the person just do well on the state exam. High turnover is a red flag!!!! Happy teachers get results------unhappy teachers leave---not good for the school culture.
3
Sounds almost brutal.......as if being Black and from a poor urban neighborhood will be a walk in the park in "real" life if you are not educated. This type of tough love will not save everyone, but it will save more than those systems that do not educated.
2
Here you have a cohort of folks who live in reasonably challenged circumstances and who have also been ignored for decades. You add in a completely disfunctional school system run by unions for unions (not students). Then you get someone who has a new idea that actually works.
10-11 hour days for the teachers? Egad! My days are longer. Satruday classes? What a travesty -- but I had those too.
Life is hard. The sooner the students understand it's a grind, and a meritocracy, the sooner they can engage and decide how they are going to attack the problem of bettering themselves.
A good education, including learning discipline and being held accountable, is the most important thing a person can have, and you cannot take it away either. And you have to work your tail off to get a good education, and then you have to work your tail off again to succeed in life. I'll wager that the kids who graduate from this program will on average do quite well.
As for the folks calling this "advanced test prep" -- change the test. Certainly a test could be created to test ability, not ability to prep. I'll bet these kids will ace that also.
My local schools are some of the worst in my State. I send my kids to private school, but not everyone can do that, and it would be nice if more public schools took the process and policy of education more seriously. At least we have one good model here that works. Union resistance to change will kill any hope of that here.
Bravo.
10-11 hour days for the teachers? Egad! My days are longer. Satruday classes? What a travesty -- but I had those too.
Life is hard. The sooner the students understand it's a grind, and a meritocracy, the sooner they can engage and decide how they are going to attack the problem of bettering themselves.
A good education, including learning discipline and being held accountable, is the most important thing a person can have, and you cannot take it away either. And you have to work your tail off to get a good education, and then you have to work your tail off again to succeed in life. I'll wager that the kids who graduate from this program will on average do quite well.
As for the folks calling this "advanced test prep" -- change the test. Certainly a test could be created to test ability, not ability to prep. I'll bet these kids will ace that also.
My local schools are some of the worst in my State. I send my kids to private school, but not everyone can do that, and it would be nice if more public schools took the process and policy of education more seriously. At least we have one good model here that works. Union resistance to change will kill any hope of that here.
Bravo.
3
Change the test? The tests are designed to provide the "data" to "prove" that the public schools are failing. Education today is designed to make money for hedge funds and the likes of Pearson. Children are the victims.
I went to private schools all my life, then college, then law school. This sounds pretty similar to my experience in private schools in terms of rigidity, accountability and expectations.
Rigidity falls away at the college level, but because expectations and intense competition remain, you have to supply your own structure and be accountable to yourself. This would be pretty hard to do if you'd never had anyone teach you discipline. By college, you had better know that skipping class is not a good thing. No one is going to chase you down if you do, and you will fail.
In law school, we were graded on a curve; it was literally impossible for everyone to get the same grade on a test. Awards were given for people at the top of each class. And when school ended, potential employers wanted to see my GPA and, surprise, my CLASS RANK!
From what I have read in this article, the Success Academy system recognizes that the world is not only a tough place, but also a rat race, and does its best to prepare its students for it. The sad truth is there will be winners and losers. I'm sure it's not a perfect system, but it sounds much better than the alternative, which is to try to save everyone and end up saving no one.
Rigidity falls away at the college level, but because expectations and intense competition remain, you have to supply your own structure and be accountable to yourself. This would be pretty hard to do if you'd never had anyone teach you discipline. By college, you had better know that skipping class is not a good thing. No one is going to chase you down if you do, and you will fail.
In law school, we were graded on a curve; it was literally impossible for everyone to get the same grade on a test. Awards were given for people at the top of each class. And when school ended, potential employers wanted to see my GPA and, surprise, my CLASS RANK!
From what I have read in this article, the Success Academy system recognizes that the world is not only a tough place, but also a rat race, and does its best to prepare its students for it. The sad truth is there will be winners and losers. I'm sure it's not a perfect system, but it sounds much better than the alternative, which is to try to save everyone and end up saving no one.
8
"Simply not trying is not part of our culture."
vs.
“We can NOT let up on them,” she continued. “Any scholar who is not using the plan of attack will go to effort academy, have their parent called, and will miss electives. This is serious business, and there has to be misery felt for the kids who are not doing what is expected of them.”
These are two very different sentiments being used in parallel at Success. Making mistakes, or not perfectly using and/or forgetting to use a strategy taught explicitly in class is NOT evidence of students "not trying." This attitude is extremely dangerous for students; who cares about test scores if, at the end of the day, your school's methods of obtaining the scores and possible college acceptances result, also, in long-term anxiety and a mindset of "making mistakes is not okay," and "I must always follow the disciplinary in front of me," and, "it's only grades that matter." Success: I congratulate you on your high test scores, but, frankly, you are dehumanizing your students in the process. To be a good teacher, you must aim to create not only successful students, but successful- meaning happy, healthy and independent - human beings. Maybe consider reading up on some socio-emotional based learning strategies to help students who are growing up in often difficult urban neighborhoods such as the Bronx? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CwS60ykM8s) Thank you.
vs.
“We can NOT let up on them,” she continued. “Any scholar who is not using the plan of attack will go to effort academy, have their parent called, and will miss electives. This is serious business, and there has to be misery felt for the kids who are not doing what is expected of them.”
These are two very different sentiments being used in parallel at Success. Making mistakes, or not perfectly using and/or forgetting to use a strategy taught explicitly in class is NOT evidence of students "not trying." This attitude is extremely dangerous for students; who cares about test scores if, at the end of the day, your school's methods of obtaining the scores and possible college acceptances result, also, in long-term anxiety and a mindset of "making mistakes is not okay," and "I must always follow the disciplinary in front of me," and, "it's only grades that matter." Success: I congratulate you on your high test scores, but, frankly, you are dehumanizing your students in the process. To be a good teacher, you must aim to create not only successful students, but successful- meaning happy, healthy and independent - human beings. Maybe consider reading up on some socio-emotional based learning strategies to help students who are growing up in often difficult urban neighborhoods such as the Bronx? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CwS60ykM8s) Thank you.
3
I'd be very interested in hearing from some of the SA graduates who are now in High School. How are they doing academically? Socially? Did they retain the study habits that served them so well in elementary & middle schools?
Absolutely, some of the SA tactics described by Ms Taylor are cringe-inducing. I went to Catholic parochial schools in Queens. Nothing described in this article (except pants-wetting) was unfamiliar. Sitting-up straight, folded hands, pointing out (and praising) the kids who did well, pointing out those who did poorly: all on the St Andrew's/Bishop Reilly checklist. (At least the SA teachers don't wallop their students, a huge step forward from pedagogical methods of the Dominican Sisters and Sacred Heart Brothers of the 60's and 70's.)
And yet, inner-city Catholic schools today (happily, having dropped some of the regrettable excesses of the past) are sending their graduates to selective high schools and on to college at rates 6 or 7 or more times higher than public schools that draw from the same neighborhoods. I'd suggest that's a result of the discipline (OK, regimentation) they employ to teach kids basic academic skills, techniques for addressing problems & challenges that remain useful throughout the kids' entire lives.
Any system like SA that produces smart, capable students, while public schools are failing so badly at their mission, should not be dismissed or discounted. It should be studied and its success emulated.
Absolutely, some of the SA tactics described by Ms Taylor are cringe-inducing. I went to Catholic parochial schools in Queens. Nothing described in this article (except pants-wetting) was unfamiliar. Sitting-up straight, folded hands, pointing out (and praising) the kids who did well, pointing out those who did poorly: all on the St Andrew's/Bishop Reilly checklist. (At least the SA teachers don't wallop their students, a huge step forward from pedagogical methods of the Dominican Sisters and Sacred Heart Brothers of the 60's and 70's.)
And yet, inner-city Catholic schools today (happily, having dropped some of the regrettable excesses of the past) are sending their graduates to selective high schools and on to college at rates 6 or 7 or more times higher than public schools that draw from the same neighborhoods. I'd suggest that's a result of the discipline (OK, regimentation) they employ to teach kids basic academic skills, techniques for addressing problems & challenges that remain useful throughout the kids' entire lives.
Any system like SA that produces smart, capable students, while public schools are failing so badly at their mission, should not be dismissed or discounted. It should be studied and its success emulated.
3
Huh, I find it interesting that many comments here phrase their thoughts about the school in terms of 'humiliation' and 'abuse'. In fact the model seems closer to Asian school models such as those seen in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and India-- everyone pulls together, and the culture of visible test scores is not associated with shame, but with encouragement to do better through hard work.
I also find that criticisms of this model "reducing student creativity" rather miss the point-- to be creative, a student must first feel confident, in control, and have a belief in her skills and technique. I get the impression that students attending this school are from low-income backgrounds and generally do not get this feeling often at home. Contrast the "masters of the universe" who grow up in the suburbs and are tutored all the way to Stuy.
All in all, Success Academy reminds me a bit of my own early schooling outside of the US (although less intense). I'm grateful for it. The learned discipline and culture of striving served me well in college, and I did a lot better than many students who had a decidedly more touchy-feely approach to their schooling.
I also find that criticisms of this model "reducing student creativity" rather miss the point-- to be creative, a student must first feel confident, in control, and have a belief in her skills and technique. I get the impression that students attending this school are from low-income backgrounds and generally do not get this feeling often at home. Contrast the "masters of the universe" who grow up in the suburbs and are tutored all the way to Stuy.
All in all, Success Academy reminds me a bit of my own early schooling outside of the US (although less intense). I'm grateful for it. The learned discipline and culture of striving served me well in college, and I did a lot better than many students who had a decidedly more touchy-feely approach to their schooling.
13
"Masters of the universe" from the suburbs are not eligible for Stuy, no matter how tutored. It's for NYC residents only. Not one of the Success Academy 8th graders did well enough on SHSAT to be offered a seat at any specialized high school this year. I'm sure it's something that Moscowitz will take on. They are great at test prep.
The picks already expresses my thoughts, pro and con. Something that bothers me about Ms. Moskowitz is that she comes across as a Governor Cuomo style politician (among others): unwilling to take any criticism or admit that there may be flaws in the SA system. Anything that might be seen as a negative, or simply in need of adjustment or correction is categorized as misconstrued or the result of sour grapes. It's always about someone else's failure of character -whether the other is 25 year old teacher or a 10 year old student.
3
It would be great if these schools could give their teachers enough incentives to take on the difficult challenges they face everyday. But looking at teacher turnover as a measure of success for these schools misses the point. The sole focus should be on producing successful students. Even the stress these students face in the classroom in these formative years is trivial when compared to the lifetime of misery that would be their faith without proper education. Lastly, the teaching conditions in these schools should be looked at in relation to their struggle to compensate for the lack of parental support as most of the students are hailing from poor families with limited overall resources. These schools are trying to break the cycle of poverty in these poor families and this extraordinary goal requires extraordinary methods to achieve it. So, give these schools more support, and less criticism.
1
Fewer resources does not mean a lack of parental support. Please don't measure parental worth in strictly monetary terms.
Time will tell. These kids need to be tracked to see how their early education reflects on the outcome through high school and later post high school, where critical, analytical thinking largely become the measure against which success is measured. Perhaps then one can talk of successful education. Ability to score well on standardized tests means little if there is no retention or ability to synthesize new ideas from existing information
98
The ability to synthesize new ideas from existing information means nothing unless you can find educational and career opportunities where such a skill is called for. Since most universities still consider and require standardized tests, and many competitive career options consider your educational background, nobody who lives in the real world should sneer at the ability to do well on standardized tests.
1
The kids who drop out or are pushed out of Success Academy schools need to be tracked too. Why did they leave? Did some suffer lasting damage from the humiliating and public shaming employed by their teachers?
1
Well put, Jack b.
Follow Eva's grads through their young adult years and report about that.
Follow Eva's grads through their young adult years and report about that.
In my experience as a charter school parent engaging in discussions with critics of charter schools, some of the most vocal critics are from people who wouldn't dare send their children to a failing traditional public in a poor urban neighborhood. They tend to be parents who live in a district elite enough to solicit tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars in private donations from other parents for their traditional publics. They tend to be surrounded by other parents who have the interest and means to spend a good deal of time with their children outside of school, and pay for extracurriculars activities (including tutoring) that poor families could never afford.
My opinion is that these public school parents who oppose schools like Success are being offensive to parents without such elite options who actually WANT something more for their children than a graffiti-covered den of fear and crime where children walk through metal detectors and have to wear clear backpacks. It's so easy to tsk-tsk charter schools when your children actually have options that poor children do not.
Success Academy has a model that works. Is it perfect? Of course not (but what school is?) Is it the only model that works? Of course not. Is it perfect for every child? Of course not. What Success provides is an opportunity for a challenging school for parents without the means to move to the wealthy neighborhoods. Any comparison of Success Academy and some Tribeca public school is a false.
My opinion is that these public school parents who oppose schools like Success are being offensive to parents without such elite options who actually WANT something more for their children than a graffiti-covered den of fear and crime where children walk through metal detectors and have to wear clear backpacks. It's so easy to tsk-tsk charter schools when your children actually have options that poor children do not.
Success Academy has a model that works. Is it perfect? Of course not (but what school is?) Is it the only model that works? Of course not. Is it perfect for every child? Of course not. What Success provides is an opportunity for a challenging school for parents without the means to move to the wealthy neighborhoods. Any comparison of Success Academy and some Tribeca public school is a false.
11
Isn't good reporting supposed to reveal the truth? The article has many quotes from teachers who are critical of the methods and procedures at Ms. Moskowitz's schools which are followed by a quote from Ms. Moskowitz that directly contradicts what the teacher said. Is the atmosphere at the schools hostile to working parents, as Ms. Phillips-Santos asserts, or is it not as Ms. Moskowitz says? More definitive reporting would answer that question. Are teachers encourages to rip students papers in front of them? Do children urinate in their pants because they are confined to their seats during test practice? Is it true that teachers leave Success because they are "not happy teaching" as Ms. Moskowitz says or are there more substantive reasons? It seems in this article that the reporter always gives Ms. Moskowitz the last word - her quote closes the article - with no follow up questions that might provide more information about the real record of these schools.
3
A lot of comments here make the point that test scores aren't an education. That's so true, but as the mother of a high school senior who's brokenhearted after the college admissions process, let me tell you that without the test scores, a topnotch university simply doesn't look at you.
My daughter differs from her friend group mainly in her puzzling inability to perform well on tests. This shows up both in her course work, where she frequently enters the final exam with an A minus and walks out with a B, and on standardized tests, where an enormous amount of effort studying and three attempts landed her at the 87th percentile in the ACT but only in the 60s on the SAT.
She's a well-balanced, responsible, hardworking student with a great personality and a lot of extracurriculars, both service and arts, and international travel. She's far more informed about current affairs than her friends. More important, she has a clear plan about what she wants to major in and why and what her career goal is; carefully researched colleges to find good fits; and explained all this in detail in her admissions essays. The kids with great test scores, but no idea what they want to major in or why, got scholarships to highly selective schools. My daughter got into only our local university, and only gets loans, though our median-income family is already strangled by debt.
As Lani Guinier puts it, test scores represent "the tyranny of meritocracy"—merit defined with a dubious narrowness.
My daughter differs from her friend group mainly in her puzzling inability to perform well on tests. This shows up both in her course work, where she frequently enters the final exam with an A minus and walks out with a B, and on standardized tests, where an enormous amount of effort studying and three attempts landed her at the 87th percentile in the ACT but only in the 60s on the SAT.
She's a well-balanced, responsible, hardworking student with a great personality and a lot of extracurriculars, both service and arts, and international travel. She's far more informed about current affairs than her friends. More important, she has a clear plan about what she wants to major in and why and what her career goal is; carefully researched colleges to find good fits; and explained all this in detail in her admissions essays. The kids with great test scores, but no idea what they want to major in or why, got scholarships to highly selective schools. My daughter got into only our local university, and only gets loans, though our median-income family is already strangled by debt.
As Lani Guinier puts it, test scores represent "the tyranny of meritocracy"—merit defined with a dubious narrowness.
5
I loved this article. I am 69 and it made me laugh because of all the things that they are trying to stress like posture, hands clasped, etc. When I was in school, that was what we did everyday. Our nails had to be clean. The girls had to wear a handkerchief pinned to there outfits. (Now sounds stupid) Boys had to wear ties. Our shoes had to be shined and no sneakers, slacks and no jeans. That was for playtime. Girls were not allowed pants. Also the teachers had to dress like teachers. Now a days the teachers go to school in jeans. How does a kid learn the proper way to dress for an interview and all the other things that should be taught so they can grow up with the proper skills if the teacher dresses the way the kids are allowed to do?
I find it disturbing that they have to go on Saturday for test preps but it is working.
From what I see it is some teachers that do not want to put the time in for the kids to be so overwhelmed with homework. The math is ridiculous. Where is the down time after the school day? I am not saying this is with all teachers. There are some really great, dedicated ones out there, but not the amount you'd like to see.
I was a Human Resources Administrator and I had younger people coming in for interviews in shorts, chewing gum, etc.. Ridiculous. Kids need to be taught and to be set an example. I think these schools with a drop less military type style is just wonderful. Especially for the kids that would never have this opportunity.
I find it disturbing that they have to go on Saturday for test preps but it is working.
From what I see it is some teachers that do not want to put the time in for the kids to be so overwhelmed with homework. The math is ridiculous. Where is the down time after the school day? I am not saying this is with all teachers. There are some really great, dedicated ones out there, but not the amount you'd like to see.
I was a Human Resources Administrator and I had younger people coming in for interviews in shorts, chewing gum, etc.. Ridiculous. Kids need to be taught and to be set an example. I think these schools with a drop less military type style is just wonderful. Especially for the kids that would never have this opportunity.
2
Success seems to be aggressive, but I don't really see that as a major problem. We only have two questions to ask ourselves when it comes to evaluating reforms groups likes Success: (1) are the teaching methods abusive? And (2) are they effective? If they are abusive and harms students psychologically or physically, then they must end, but if they just push students really hard, with carrots and sticks, and produce good results then we should support them.
The fact of the matter is that many of these students have been dealt a rough hand in life. They will face unnecessary socioeconomic hurdles that no child deserve, but are nevertheless , and they will need a fantastic education to close the gap they may have been born into. It should also be pointed out that private tutors also tend to be strict and demanding on their students
The fact that some teachers disagree with the program seems trivial in the grand scheme. If the program is actually producing students prepared to succeed, then we should make sure that the people who not want to part of it or cannot stand the pressure can transition out so that those who can will take their place.
The fact of the matter is that many of these students have been dealt a rough hand in life. They will face unnecessary socioeconomic hurdles that no child deserve, but are nevertheless , and they will need a fantastic education to close the gap they may have been born into. It should also be pointed out that private tutors also tend to be strict and demanding on their students
The fact that some teachers disagree with the program seems trivial in the grand scheme. If the program is actually producing students prepared to succeed, then we should make sure that the people who not want to part of it or cannot stand the pressure can transition out so that those who can will take their place.
3
Go to one of those "rich kid" public schools known for producing "successful" kids and you won't find them being bullied around or humiliated. Yet we're supposed to accept that it's OK to do this to the "poor" kids allegedly so they can be instilled with motivation to do well? The "rich kids"public schools have per-student spending that is double that of the "poor kids" public schools. Yet, Cuomo's plan is to divert more public school dollars to private interests like SA, deprive the students left in the public schools of critical resources, then compare the SA test scores to those in public schools? How about a fair test? How about funding "poor kid" public schools at the rate of "rich kid" public schools - or even higher rates since they have more needs - and then compare the tests? In the meantime and as they have for decades, "poor kids" public schools continue to be deliberately set up to fail.
13
You are actually wrong. My child goes to a "rich kid" NYC public school that also happens to have a housing project in the zone, so we get the poor kids too - 30% of the students at our school are on free lunch.
And guess what? They DON'T score well on the tests. And they don't succeed. Despite being in a wealthy well-developed school with great enrichment programs. So being in a wealthy school is NOT enough for these kids. They need something more - something like SA.
And guess what? They DON'T score well on the tests. And they don't succeed. Despite being in a wealthy well-developed school with great enrichment programs. So being in a wealthy school is NOT enough for these kids. They need something more - something like SA.
1
I teach in a high needs public school where we take in students after they have been "counseled out" of charter schools. There is no doubt charters are cherrypicking the more responsible, motivated families from the outset because they require applications to their lotteries that parents of the most high needs families will never complete.
This discriminates against students by "parental inaction", a factor beyond control of a small child. So this should be a civil rights issue. But charters even admit they don't want disruptive kids (the most high needs families in a community). Because of this, we should NEVER compare charters to district schools.
Now in my fourth public school, I can tell you there is a significant difference in the school environment every period of every day when schools are dealing with the most high needs kids in a neighborhood.
This is a failing of standardized testing itself, forcing us to compare things that are not at all alike, without controls for the most important factors. The flawed APPR system claims to control for factors like ELL, IEP or income, but this is nothing compared to the effect family incarceration, homelessness, documented trauma, ongoing abuse/neglect and the ripple effects that bring down entire classes.
Charters, ironically, were originally designed to be the remedy for this. In 1996, when the NY Charter Schools Act was passed, charters promised to focus on kids who were "at risk of academic failure". What happened?
This discriminates against students by "parental inaction", a factor beyond control of a small child. So this should be a civil rights issue. But charters even admit they don't want disruptive kids (the most high needs families in a community). Because of this, we should NEVER compare charters to district schools.
Now in my fourth public school, I can tell you there is a significant difference in the school environment every period of every day when schools are dealing with the most high needs kids in a neighborhood.
This is a failing of standardized testing itself, forcing us to compare things that are not at all alike, without controls for the most important factors. The flawed APPR system claims to control for factors like ELL, IEP or income, but this is nothing compared to the effect family incarceration, homelessness, documented trauma, ongoing abuse/neglect and the ripple effects that bring down entire classes.
Charters, ironically, were originally designed to be the remedy for this. In 1996, when the NY Charter Schools Act was passed, charters promised to focus on kids who were "at risk of academic failure". What happened?
14
While it is great to motivate each child to do his or her best, public shaming is really not a good pedagogical tool. It assumes that every kid can do really, really well if only he or she tries. Yet some students will get Cs or even Ds after really trying their best - not everyone is smart and not everyone is academically oriented (some have other kinds of intelligence, which are not as amenable to the word-oriented school environment).
3
I'm 71 yrs old and this educational approach seems very similar to what I experienced when I was in public elementary school back in the Stone Age. Guess what? It worked! It appears to be working now, too. With that many parents wanting this opportunity, who cares what a few teachers who didn't like the style think?
It's not the school for every child or every teacher, but it is doing FAR more "good things", than "bad". No parent should have to subject her child to a public school classroom filled with children who are totally unsocialized and have no interest in learning and are constantly disruptive. This give poor and middle class parents a choice and a good option.
All this talk about creative thinking is nonsense. Children do not develop analytical skills until well into adolescence - sometimes not even until college-age. Learn the fact first; then learn to interpret them. Will all these children go to college? No, but all will be highly employable with good work habits.
It's not the school for every child or every teacher, but it is doing FAR more "good things", than "bad". No parent should have to subject her child to a public school classroom filled with children who are totally unsocialized and have no interest in learning and are constantly disruptive. This give poor and middle class parents a choice and a good option.
All this talk about creative thinking is nonsense. Children do not develop analytical skills until well into adolescence - sometimes not even until college-age. Learn the fact first; then learn to interpret them. Will all these children go to college? No, but all will be highly employable with good work habits.
3
Were you constantly taking state tests? Were you putting in 10 hour days as a student?
2
22,000 applications for 2,688 seats sums it up nicely. Keep up the great work Ms. Moskowitz and ignore all the critics.
3
I think that the number of applicants to the number of available spots says a lot about this school - clearly they are doing something right. I'm not sure I agree with shaming students for slower learning or difficulty achieving the same way as other students, but overall I think this article does a good job of pointing out where charter schools are picking up where public schools are leaving off. The education system must see change, and the rise of charter schools might as well be that necessary change.
1
I'm afraid that some of these comments exhibit self-indulgent, middle class cluelessness in the comments, as in it is so *mean* to insist that kids behave and study and hold them accountable.
Well, it's the way public school kids were educated for many years, with great success. And how well has the system what replaced it worked?
If you're a Dalton student whose main concern is that your maid misplaced the nail polish, no, you don't need or benefit from this kind of approach. But these kids need structure and they need accountability.
Time will tell whether what these kids are learning allows them to do more than excel at standardized tests.
In the meantime, some of the precious flowers here should spend some time in an inner city public school where teachers spend half their time on what is euphemistically called "classroom management" and are lucky if a kids even shows up on any given day, and where studies find an "A" paper would be a "C" paper at decent school.
The helicopter parent, rubber playground, zero accountability approach has failed these kids, and the pain they experience when they fail a test is nothing like the pain they would feel if they were in prison or struggling to raise children as a single parent on welfare. Left to the tender mercy of the public schools, that is where all too many of these kids are headed.
Well, it's the way public school kids were educated for many years, with great success. And how well has the system what replaced it worked?
If you're a Dalton student whose main concern is that your maid misplaced the nail polish, no, you don't need or benefit from this kind of approach. But these kids need structure and they need accountability.
Time will tell whether what these kids are learning allows them to do more than excel at standardized tests.
In the meantime, some of the precious flowers here should spend some time in an inner city public school where teachers spend half their time on what is euphemistically called "classroom management" and are lucky if a kids even shows up on any given day, and where studies find an "A" paper would be a "C" paper at decent school.
The helicopter parent, rubber playground, zero accountability approach has failed these kids, and the pain they experience when they fail a test is nothing like the pain they would feel if they were in prison or struggling to raise children as a single parent on welfare. Left to the tender mercy of the public schools, that is where all too many of these kids are headed.
17
Who did it serve Josh? We used to have Jim Crow. We used to - and still mostly do - practice segregation in our schools. We used to have very few educational and job choices for girls and women. Yeah - it was always better in the past. Aren't you old enough to have figured out that that is what the old people always say about everything? One thing is true, for a short time in the 20th century we had unionized, fairly well-paid jobs for many people who weren't completely successful in a school setting. And, unlike China, and any number of Asian countries we are always comparing ourselves to, we try to educate EVERY CHILD. That's quite unusual in this world.
1
Josh Hill:
Nicely put: "Left to the tender mercy of the public schools..". And who controls these schools? Who decides what should be taught, and how to teach? We all know the political agenda of the those in charge; but only a few demand that they change this agenda because it is hurting the children. And the poorest suffer the most.
Nicely put: "Left to the tender mercy of the public schools..". And who controls these schools? Who decides what should be taught, and how to teach? We all know the political agenda of the those in charge; but only a few demand that they change this agenda because it is hurting the children. And the poorest suffer the most.
1
Josh: There's a world of difference between creating healthy classroom structure and demanding adherence to good standards of behavior and academic performance, and the extremes of shaming children and excising, with monstrous precision, every tendency towards individualism and spontaneity.
There isn't enough discussion here, though, of parental responsibility and the truth that the schools are not responsible for fixing what parents have broken.
I may have been considered a middle-class New Yorker during my child's school years, but I had a full-time job outside the home, as a lowly employee with a long commute, and I was as tired a human being as it was possible to be and still live and function. But I put everything and more into my child--in loving attention, not objects or activities--and he entered nursery school as a self-taught reader and writer. I'd read to him from infancy and stopped only when he reached the age of preferring to read to himself.
Even un- or under-educated parents can "read" picture books to their young children and instill an appreciation for and love of words and language that will serve their children well throughout their lives. Schools cannot fix the products of dysfunctional broken families without an infusion of resources that no government is willing to provide.
There isn't enough discussion here, though, of parental responsibility and the truth that the schools are not responsible for fixing what parents have broken.
I may have been considered a middle-class New Yorker during my child's school years, but I had a full-time job outside the home, as a lowly employee with a long commute, and I was as tired a human being as it was possible to be and still live and function. But I put everything and more into my child--in loving attention, not objects or activities--and he entered nursery school as a self-taught reader and writer. I'd read to him from infancy and stopped only when he reached the age of preferring to read to himself.
Even un- or under-educated parents can "read" picture books to their young children and instill an appreciation for and love of words and language that will serve their children well throughout their lives. Schools cannot fix the products of dysfunctional broken families without an infusion of resources that no government is willing to provide.
2
While it is hard to argue with SA's success rates, it is easier to see problems with the methodology. Aplying pure factory based efficiency methods produces better outcomes, but even in a factory there can be more breakage with very tight tolerances. These are children, not machines, and breakage in a human is much more expensive, and time-consuming, to repair.
Perhaps some of the best methods at SA could be combined with the best methods of understanding childhood (children are, to be sure, quite different than just little adults) and spplied to all public schools. All these children are our future (and not just their own future).
It is not mentioned in the article, but I wonder where the roles of creativity, individual thought, and critical thinking comes in - even with those art, music, chess and other necesary classes that SA has maintained. Without any graduates into colleges yet, it is hard to quantify any succes rate at their perceived target, but certainly non-standardized testing results success could be measured to see how "well-rounded" each child is becoming.
Perhaps some of the best methods at SA could be combined with the best methods of understanding childhood (children are, to be sure, quite different than just little adults) and spplied to all public schools. All these children are our future (and not just their own future).
It is not mentioned in the article, but I wonder where the roles of creativity, individual thought, and critical thinking comes in - even with those art, music, chess and other necesary classes that SA has maintained. Without any graduates into colleges yet, it is hard to quantify any succes rate at their perceived target, but certainly non-standardized testing results success could be measured to see how "well-rounded" each child is becoming.
59
It's actually fairly easy to argue with their success rates. They're almost certainly cheating by doing everything but giving kids the answers and their "success" is really quite hollow and meaningless.
All to make Eva M. rich.
All to make Eva M. rich.
1
Inkblot: don't you think that creativity, individual thought, and critical thinking are learned best in a disciplined environment? Where there aren't any disrupters to prevent most of the kids from learning anything?
The problems you speak do not result from the methodology of Success Acadmies; rather, they are prevalent in public schools and result from methodology applied by the education bureaucracy. Please don't trash success; please try to model public schools after the institutions which are successful.
And then you will get many more "well rounded" children coming from public shcool. But until then, those who don't win this lottery to be placed in the 2000+ seats of Success Academies, will suffer.
The problems you speak do not result from the methodology of Success Acadmies; rather, they are prevalent in public schools and result from methodology applied by the education bureaucracy. Please don't trash success; please try to model public schools after the institutions which are successful.
And then you will get many more "well rounded" children coming from public shcool. But until then, those who don't win this lottery to be placed in the 2000+ seats of Success Academies, will suffer.
1
Missing from the article was an examination of the size of freshman classes vs. the reduced by attrition number of kids who end up graduating. The difference is stark and explains the illusionary high test score averages SA manufactures. They remove kids who would give the lie to their methods. Public schools don't exclude or remove kids who would bring their scores down, they can't.
1
Children stuck in failing public schools need alternatives. The "suffering" that they will undergo in a school like this pales in comparison to the suffering they will experience when they turn 18 and can't read, write or speak coherently.
The compulsory, government run, unionized schools have failed. Its time to give the money back to the tax payers. Charters are a step in the right direction.
The compulsory, government run, unionized schools have failed. Its time to give the money back to the tax payers. Charters are a step in the right direction.
13
'U.S. Students Still Lag Globally in Math and Science, Tests Show' is a headline from the NY TImes (and this has been a reality for one decade, if not three).
Charter schools may be part of the answer to improve the education our kids receive. I would be interested to know from other readers, what other changes we need to make to public schools?
Charter schools may be part of the answer to improve the education our kids receive. I would be interested to know from other readers, what other changes we need to make to public schools?
2
Similarities between what is described here and what happens in prisons is not coincidental. The intention of offering urban, working-class kids the same opportunities as their wealthier peers is a good one. Unfortunately, what is described here is not doing that—their wealthier peers are going to schools that are filled with joy and a love of learning. NOT control over their bodies, time, and minds.
16
The alternative is a failing public school, which prepares them for nothing except a very good chance of ending up in a REAL prison.
1
This is a really important point. The classroom behavior stuff is creepy and authoritarian, like you're training kids for mill jobs in Dickensian England. I remember visiting private schools in New York as a kid, and their classrooms were much more like big living rooms; people didn't even have assigned desks. Discipline, it seems, is a skill only the poor are required to master.
1
"But at Success Academy Harlem 4, one boy’s struggles were there for all to see: On two colored charts in the hallway, where the students’ performance on weekly spelling and math quizzes was tracked, his name was at the bottom, in a red zone denoting that he was below grade level."
Doesn't this practice violate educational privacy laws? Anyone with more knowledge of these laws than me have an opinion?
Doesn't this practice violate educational privacy laws? Anyone with more knowledge of these laws than me have an opinion?
5
I'll bet that you didn't attend one of the schools that these kids would have otherwise been assigned to.
I am so glad I went to a regular public school in NYC, rather than one of these dictatorial, conformity embracing, control-freak horror shows. These schools creep me out and make me feel ashamed of what we have become as a society; of how we crush our students and our teachers imagination, creativity, and individual will to power.
12
When did the proven approach and results from Success Academy become controversial? In our knowledge and skills based economy, who wants to graduate students with poor learning skills? Isn't this just a petulant fight between the teachers union and Success Academy with the Mayor paying back his allies? If I was a teacher who cared about kids (and not the union) and someone was having success educating kids, I would endorse it.
Only in NYC would this debate actually occur. Lets bring on the bad education with rotten teachers! Whohoo. You would also think the NYTImes would be smarter in this case. Those who cannot read well are unlikely to read newspapers.
Only in NYC would this debate actually occur. Lets bring on the bad education with rotten teachers! Whohoo. You would also think the NYTImes would be smarter in this case. Those who cannot read well are unlikely to read newspapers.
7
They're not developing learning skills. They're being trained to obey the master with the whip.
1
Did you even bother reading the article? None of the Success students are out of high school yet. No one has any idea if this model does anything more than produce good test-takers and hand-claspers.
2
As with most systems, I see good and bad here. In the comments I read, no one mentioned certain outcomes. First, in the real world after school, most businesses and government services organizations are not concerned with protecting your feelings. You do your job acceptably or you get fired. At least you don't get promotions. You also encounter nasty supervisors who abuse and even scream at you. These schools may well send out grads better able to handle this. (I don't agree with abusive put-downs.) The second item is not addressed in the story, but I would assume it to be true. I suspect the level of delinquincyis much lower among students in these schools.
3
These are elementary school children. We should be concerned with their feelings. They are not in the work force.
If you don't like their methods, don't go. I went to Catholic schools my whole life. And I enjoyed it all - ALL.
4
New Orleans' high crime rate among young people can be directly attributed to the charter school takeover! Many young people with behavior disorders were routinely turned away from admission to public charter schools after Hurricane Katrina. Do the math, subtract 10 from the age of all young prisoners or current crime problems walking the city's streets today. New Orleans proponents of for profit run charter schools have created a whole new problem "an uneducated class of young disparate people". So much for progress!
4
It is at times like this where I wish the NYT verified commenters. New Orleans crime rates are down since Katrina, and pre-Katrina New Orleans public schools were an abomination. Everyone in this city knows this. Everyone in the city also knows that most of the schools in New Orleans are open-admission and students are chosen via lottery and One App.
Western civilization during the past 500 years of white supremacy capitalism has increasingly rewarded the neurotically successful, and a strict, formal education helps develop the adaptation. In a culture that rewards maximaization and goes to war for profits, becoming maniacally focused is a path toward a successful and free (option-rich) adulthood. One hopes that there are music, arts, and humanities programs at these schools to help their adult former students use their earned-skills in healthy, fun, meaningful ways.
5
I would love to see public schools make their students sit with their hands folded and eyes watching the speaker. Really! If behavior like that is part of the success story, why don't they try it in public schools? Make students behave a certain way, dress a certain way, speak a certain way. Instill discipline in the classrooms, and for those students who lack the motivation to work hard and succeed, make them attend "study hall" after school.
4
Teachers used to do things like that before parents became so sensitive and decided that their precious children didn't need to be subjected to any sort of discipline whatsoever. We had dress codes in school and conduct codes, both of which were enforced. We could curse at a teacher but the price was a nice little visit to the principal's office, detention, and a note home. But we had something that many children do not have today: one parent who met us when we came home. Our parents had time to instill the rudiments of good behavior into our minds. Nowadays many parents don't do it, or don't have the time or inclination since their time with their children is so limited due to work related obligations.
If we want children to behave we have to behave too. If we want children to value education we need to value it , their teachers, the facilities, and everything that goes along with becoming an educated person. Yet, when I read comments on this site and other sites I find myself wondering what ever happened to civilized behavior and how anyone with an average or above average IQ can believe some of the garbage our public figures spew. And then I remember how often the adults in today's world are rude, dismissive about education, and inconsiderate to a degree that would have earned them detention 40 years ago.
If we want children to behave we have to behave too. If we want children to value education we need to value it , their teachers, the facilities, and everything that goes along with becoming an educated person. Yet, when I read comments on this site and other sites I find myself wondering what ever happened to civilized behavior and how anyone with an average or above average IQ can believe some of the garbage our public figures spew. And then I remember how often the adults in today's world are rude, dismissive about education, and inconsiderate to a degree that would have earned them detention 40 years ago.
4
And what do you do with the 5 and 6 year olds who can't sit still? Suspend them over and over until they leave? Who educates them?
1
Whatever their faults, these charter schools appear to address a host of major problems facing public schools today:lack of discipline, administrators unwilling to rock the boat, the "everyone's a winner" mentality, teacher stagnation/entitlement and uninvolved parents.
At least these kids will have a chance to escape the direct route to jail or a job at MacDonald's that seems to be so prevalent in city public schools. And young charter school teachers appear to be getting good lessons themselves about what it's like to toil outside the educational "bubble" by putting in long hours and fulfilling demands for accountability that have long been part of work in the private sector.
If you want to see what the current public system has done to teachers, please come out to Long Island, where school parking lots are mostly empty by 3 pm, even though educators out here are showered with six-figure incomes, as well as rich benefits and retirement packages. Yes, the teachers may work a brief period beyond the school day marking papers or doing lesson plans. But 11 hours? Yeah, maybe over two days.
Kudos to Success Academy for shaking up the system and giving poor city kids a fair chance.
At least these kids will have a chance to escape the direct route to jail or a job at MacDonald's that seems to be so prevalent in city public schools. And young charter school teachers appear to be getting good lessons themselves about what it's like to toil outside the educational "bubble" by putting in long hours and fulfilling demands for accountability that have long been part of work in the private sector.
If you want to see what the current public system has done to teachers, please come out to Long Island, where school parking lots are mostly empty by 3 pm, even though educators out here are showered with six-figure incomes, as well as rich benefits and retirement packages. Yes, the teachers may work a brief period beyond the school day marking papers or doing lesson plans. But 11 hours? Yeah, maybe over two days.
Kudos to Success Academy for shaking up the system and giving poor city kids a fair chance.
6
"Product" says it all. Commoditization on top of privatization Insult to injury.
6
While we argue about less discipline vs. more discipline; longer teacher work hours vs. shorter; more or less class resources, we lose sight of the central problem: economic & racial segregation in our public school system.
What Moskowitz and Farina are both trying to grapple with is how to reverse or reduce the impact of living in highly segregated high-poverty communities on student achievement. Neither approach can successfully produce both a warm, rigorous, and enriching, school environment AND great test scores in communities where parents aren't willing or able to play a greater role in their children's education. There are great regular public schools in NYC, not measured simply by test scores & without all these crazy practices. The common thread? They are in mixed income or high income neighborhoods.
Social problems such as homelessness, working single parents, insufficient emotional supports, unemployment, crime, etc. abound in poor communities and require that schools function as half educational institutions/half social-service agency, or in this case half military school.
We need to do something about poverty, inequality, and segregation in NYC. As long as we have a large population with few choices, that are too busy trying to survive to hold their institutions accountable, we can expect more failing public school "dumping grounds" or "experimental" schools with dubious practices designed to save the poor (most often black/Latino) child!
What Moskowitz and Farina are both trying to grapple with is how to reverse or reduce the impact of living in highly segregated high-poverty communities on student achievement. Neither approach can successfully produce both a warm, rigorous, and enriching, school environment AND great test scores in communities where parents aren't willing or able to play a greater role in their children's education. There are great regular public schools in NYC, not measured simply by test scores & without all these crazy practices. The common thread? They are in mixed income or high income neighborhoods.
Social problems such as homelessness, working single parents, insufficient emotional supports, unemployment, crime, etc. abound in poor communities and require that schools function as half educational institutions/half social-service agency, or in this case half military school.
We need to do something about poverty, inequality, and segregation in NYC. As long as we have a large population with few choices, that are too busy trying to survive to hold their institutions accountable, we can expect more failing public school "dumping grounds" or "experimental" schools with dubious practices designed to save the poor (most often black/Latino) child!
7
While I understand the desperation some parents feel about securing a good education for their children in the face of the chaos and underperformance found in many public schools, I don't think that shaming students is productive. Decades later, I still remember having my spelling test ripped up in front of the entire class because my mind had momentarily wandered and I got confused about the word order - a humiliating punishment despite the fact that I was a straight A student and eventually got accepted at UC Berkeley. These Success students sound like they are being roomed for a future as wage slaves a la China.
11
Why do detractors of SA have such a difficult time allowing parents to decide what is best for their children, within the limited options that they have? The detractors ignore the fact of limited options and cannot stomach the idea that some parents may like more rigor and discipline.
Those detractors presumably would not want SA parents to tell them not to send their kids to Montessori or to move to a better zone for better schools (and they often have more options). I am fortunate enough to have had good options and chose a dual language charter school (but I carefully considered SA).
The only reasonable argument is that some parents may not like SA, but choose it because their zoned school is often the only other option. Why not allow parents more choice as the best way to improve education? Why not do away with zoned schools and hold a lottery for every desirable school? Why should school options depend on your zip code?
Those detractors presumably would not want SA parents to tell them not to send their kids to Montessori or to move to a better zone for better schools (and they often have more options). I am fortunate enough to have had good options and chose a dual language charter school (but I carefully considered SA).
The only reasonable argument is that some parents may not like SA, but choose it because their zoned school is often the only other option. Why not allow parents more choice as the best way to improve education? Why not do away with zoned schools and hold a lottery for every desirable school? Why should school options depend on your zip code?
7
The problem is that the growth of Success Academy has come at the expense of investment in public schools. The promotion of charter schools has coincided with the financial and emotional disinvestment in public schools. The "choice" parents really want is a good zoned school. Oftentimes, Success Academies have opened in neighborhoods despite considerable community opposition. How is that a choice, if the community doesn't want it?
1
I have a problem with any school that shames children. I do not want to live in a society that allows any schools -- let alone ones that that receives public funding yet remains unaccountable to the public-- to shame chuldren.
Eva mentions that parents need to be “on the same team” as the school. This is crucial. And it’s why, SA can require that parents ensure students complete their homework, read to them, arrive at school and meetings on time, etc. But public schools have no such luxury.
There’s already self-selection, a creaming of the most motivated, committed families, for charter schools vs. public schools. The application process itself automatically creams from the population those students who have motivated guardians at home who care about the child’s education. Also, they have some stability/ability to get to school/plan months ahead for next year.
And the creaming continues, each year, self selection, almost Darwinian, in terms of who stays, and who leaves. By the time its testing grade, only the ‘fittest’ have survived. The ones whose parents are behind them, helping, working with the school, attending Saturday academy, coming in for meetings as to why the scores aren’t happening, etc.
There’s already self-selection, a creaming of the most motivated, committed families, for charter schools vs. public schools. The application process itself automatically creams from the population those students who have motivated guardians at home who care about the child’s education. Also, they have some stability/ability to get to school/plan months ahead for next year.
And the creaming continues, each year, self selection, almost Darwinian, in terms of who stays, and who leaves. By the time its testing grade, only the ‘fittest’ have survived. The ones whose parents are behind them, helping, working with the school, attending Saturday academy, coming in for meetings as to why the scores aren’t happening, etc.
6
And so, at the end of this creaming process - not allowed in any public school -- we are surprised that its scores are among the highest in NY? It's a farce. That's been obvious. Thank you NYT for showing us some of the 'man behind the curtain'.
1
It is all about how success is defined in education today. Sadly, this article exemplifies how educational success is shown today. It's all about numbers- not what is best for kids or learning. Using external reinforcements/punishments is the lowest common denominator of teaching. Shaming a student into learning is not ever okay. As a teacher of 15 years, I get the frustrations of having a student not work to their potential or not seem to care but that is the challenge of my job- to figure it out. Its is disheartening to read the amount of public money and time that is supporting this program. I get that the current education system is not working in many places, the playing field is not equal. Let's fix that, which takes more work than creating a charter school that scares the daylights out of kids to look good on paper. What is the background of Moskowitz? I would be curious to know more about her. Is she one of the people whose background is in business and is turning education into a business and see students as a cookie cutter product with a number attached?
6
This column reads like a non-critical puff piece for privatization. I'm sure the hedge funders are salivating at the coverage and prospect of more profits.
Rote drilling, teaching for the test, is not the same as learning or creative problem-solving. Cherry-picking applicants and expelling those who underperform mightily distorts any viable comparison to public schools, who accept and teach all children.
Tying your children's education to a bunch of Wall Street investors is a horrible idea. If Success were so successful, wouldn't a significant percentage of these kids gain acceptance to NYC's specialized public high schools? Not a single student made it in last year.
Rote drilling, teaching for the test, is not the same as learning or creative problem-solving. Cherry-picking applicants and expelling those who underperform mightily distorts any viable comparison to public schools, who accept and teach all children.
Tying your children's education to a bunch of Wall Street investors is a horrible idea. If Success were so successful, wouldn't a significant percentage of these kids gain acceptance to NYC's specialized public high schools? Not a single student made it in last year.
16
Let's look at the underlying reasons that wealthy donors have such a strong interest in the education reform movement. Please listen to Willaim Calla, NY school superintendent, speak to this so-called reform movement for clarity and understanding of the motivations behind this push.
Forward directly to William Calla's presentation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWlSEDENTQ0
Forward directly to William Calla's presentation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWlSEDENTQ0
3
" At Success Academy Harlem 2 last year, 91 percent of students passed the state math tests, up from 76 percent the previous year. At Public School 30, which shares the building with Success Academy Harlem 2, 16 percent of students passed."
Same building, same neighborhood kids:
Method 1(Success Academy-91%/Method 2(Unionized public ed.)-16%
As a matter of national security and racial fairness, why are we not making Method 1 (academic vigor and perseverance) mandatory?
And conversely, why do we tolerate Method 2 (i.e. unionized teaching with automatic job security and the thoughtless, disorganized teaching with the expectation of a low outcome result) ?
And yes, the big bad world out there in its highest echelons expects the type of striving for excellence, concentration, and academic rigor infused at an early age with Method 1.
Simply put, Its Method 1, and NOT method 2, that will shrink wealth and other inequalities. Method 2, ie unionized teaching, only entrenches the status quo for their teaching job holders.
God speed to Success Academy ..for multiple reason.
Same building, same neighborhood kids:
Method 1(Success Academy-91%/Method 2(Unionized public ed.)-16%
As a matter of national security and racial fairness, why are we not making Method 1 (academic vigor and perseverance) mandatory?
And conversely, why do we tolerate Method 2 (i.e. unionized teaching with automatic job security and the thoughtless, disorganized teaching with the expectation of a low outcome result) ?
And yes, the big bad world out there in its highest echelons expects the type of striving for excellence, concentration, and academic rigor infused at an early age with Method 1.
Simply put, Its Method 1, and NOT method 2, that will shrink wealth and other inequalities. Method 2, ie unionized teaching, only entrenches the status quo for their teaching job holders.
God speed to Success Academy ..for multiple reason.
6
Because Method 2 -- unionized teaching, as you call it -- does not weed out half the kids! Where are THEY supposed to go when Method 1 suspends 5 year olds over and over again, telling their parents they are "special needs" because they are unable to sit still? And when 50% of the K students are like that? What happens then? That you would insult the teachers that teach EVERY child -- even the ones who aren't compliant and easy to teach -- is truly appalling.
1
I take issue with your characterization of Model 1 as "unionized public ed." The story of Success Academy is mostly about students - that they are subject to strict discipline, public shaming of low performance and heavy involvement of parents.
In my school, teachers are all unionized and they work 12 and 14 hour days also, in spite of the union contracts that suggest the school day is 8 hours. So there's no reason that teachers can't be unionized in Success Academies. In fact, last Friday, a young teacher came to me and said she's leaving because she can't handle the 14 hour days anymore. What you would end up under the Success model is high turnover as idealistic and ambitious young teachers burn out and leave after a few years. It's one model - is the one we really want for teachers or for students?
In my school, teachers are all unionized and they work 12 and 14 hour days also, in spite of the union contracts that suggest the school day is 8 hours. So there's no reason that teachers can't be unionized in Success Academies. In fact, last Friday, a young teacher came to me and said she's leaving because she can't handle the 14 hour days anymore. What you would end up under the Success model is high turnover as idealistic and ambitious young teachers burn out and leave after a few years. It's one model - is the one we really want for teachers or for students?
As a society, we need to find a way we agree upon to teach our kids. As it is today, we're failing in the global society. Does Success Academy have the model we want? Perhaps, but perhaps not. But we need to have REAL SCIENTIFIC studies so we can know what works and what doesn't. All we know is that our current educational model is broken, and the implementation that was selected for Common Core is failing miserably across the entire country.
I don't see why we can't have a variety of approaches to teaching our children. They are all different. The Success approach might work for some - they need the structure, the clear expectations. In other schools, it would never work, in part because parents would not tolerate it. I don't see why some diversity is not attainable.
I am a parent of an Upper West Success school student. One of the lucky few, who got in a lottery for the school on 84th street. While this article highlights valid discussion points around testing, emphasis on discipline and the means by which discipline is achieved, it completely exaggerates life in these schools by using a couple of anecdotal stories and viewpoints from people who have walked away from the school. We have a happy 6 year old, who loves her school, loves her enthusiastic and dedicated teachers and school supporting staff and the opportunity that a well run school management provides to all kids irrespective of their economic or social background. Compared to the failing public school options that the city is offering, Success has been the best gift that NYC has given to our family.
133
That is because you are a parent at Upper West Success -- which has mostly affluent parents who are college educated -- and not a parent at the Success Academy school profiled here. Of course Success Academy is doing everything to keep your child who would have scored well on the state tests no matter where she went to elementary school. It's just a shame that with all their resources, they don't do the same with the low-income students at their other schools. This IS how their schools that have mostly low-income students are run. And the fact that you look the other way because they don't treat your affluent child like this is sad.
I am surprised your zoned school is terrible. You should be able to find out the zoned MS they attend and where those students go to HS.
At six, my son and his friends were happy, loved their charter school and teachers. By ten, none, i.e., NONE, felt the same. I took my son out, as did a handful of other parents. However, most of the boys remain. When we ask how things are going, they say they're unhappy. Apparently, their parents are not.
I went through 12 years of rigorous parochial school education where I was considered to be "just average." In fact I was told at 10 years old, "You will never be anything more than average." I graduated college with a double major (one in education) and a 4.0 g.p.a., "summa cum laude." Did the humiliation and corporal punishment scare me into being a good student? I don't know. But, I do know it did nothing for my personal sense of self and well being. I hated school, I hated education, but I did decide that I could do a much better job than was done for me in elementary and high school. It's not necessary to humiliate young people by putting their names on a board or in the red zone of underachievement. If we want intelligent caring human beings to come out of our education systems we need competent and caring and compassionate teachers. I know it's a crazy radical idea, but one that should be tried and given a chance. Instead of spending millions of dollars on the latest standards and standardized tests, put it into training educators to be competent and caring, and maybe pay them as much per hour as the person who shoveled snow off my roof this past winter.
7
I am a teacher and I’ve heard the horror stories from colleagues who worked at and then left Success Academy, none of this is surprising. Any educational organization that has a high turnover is obviously doing something incredibly wrong. This is why many of their teachers are young and fresh out of school because more experienced teachers have a sane frame of reference. Unfortunately many of them will burn out before their careers have a chance to blossom.
As a teacher, I understand SA’s desire for success, however, these methods of “academic encouragement” sound positively draconian and the public shaming is detrimental to the psyche of the children. There has to be some balance.
Let us not forget that SA does not abide by the same rules as the public schools they compete with; they have advantages that public schools just don’t have. They say that students get in by lottery, but that is not totally true. When Bloomberg was Mayor, Success Academy had access to ARIS scores and DOE records so they actively courted students with test scores, 3 or higher. They also can discharge students who do not meet their standards.
I would believe that Moskowitz cares more about the academic success of the students her company “serves” if she didn’t make more money than the president of the United States.
As a teacher, I understand SA’s desire for success, however, these methods of “academic encouragement” sound positively draconian and the public shaming is detrimental to the psyche of the children. There has to be some balance.
Let us not forget that SA does not abide by the same rules as the public schools they compete with; they have advantages that public schools just don’t have. They say that students get in by lottery, but that is not totally true. When Bloomberg was Mayor, Success Academy had access to ARIS scores and DOE records so they actively courted students with test scores, 3 or higher. They also can discharge students who do not meet their standards.
I would believe that Moskowitz cares more about the academic success of the students her company “serves” if she didn’t make more money than the president of the United States.
212
The article doesn't mention that the turnover rate of teachers at inner city public schools is also outrageously high.
5
In my school, if we attempted to impose the discipline of Success Academy, the parents would be furious. We'd be hearing from the Board of Ed after one day. We do need better discipline - children are largely out of control, but parents won't hear of it.
3
While I strongly disagree with the methods Success Academies use, which are reminiscent of the worst educational practices in countries like South Korea, China and the former Soviet Union, I don't understand what relevance access to ARIS has. Since Success Academies do not back-fill past second grade, which is the last non-testing grade, they would not see any state performance data on ARIS simply because there wouldn't be any for the kids this young.
1
I have taught in high-performing charters before and the policies in Success are consistent with them. I have also been a teacher for 43 years and there is no test score high enough to make a child's wetting his pant worthwhile. There is no justification for posting scores so students feel demeaned and destroyed. Not having a mix of experienced and young teachers does not make a balanced faculty, and the turnover rates are absolutely unacceptable.
Education is not the process of beating everyone else with scores that mean absolutely nothing (the state tests do not reflect learning that matters), but rather attending to each student's needs and developing ways to help him or her gain knowledge and skills. This one size fits all approach does not work and paints a picture of children that I thought went away in the Great Depression. To give these charters more schools is a horrific comment on today's state of public education.
Success Academy and the like should not be applauded, but rather closed or radically changed. What they do to children is criminal. When they do it to one, that should be enough. That they condone and almost applaud their punitive practices is abhorrent. That the public and the government, regardless of scores, allows it to happen without oversight and significant change, is beyond the pale.
Education is not the process of beating everyone else with scores that mean absolutely nothing (the state tests do not reflect learning that matters), but rather attending to each student's needs and developing ways to help him or her gain knowledge and skills. This one size fits all approach does not work and paints a picture of children that I thought went away in the Great Depression. To give these charters more schools is a horrific comment on today's state of public education.
Success Academy and the like should not be applauded, but rather closed or radically changed. What they do to children is criminal. When they do it to one, that should be enough. That they condone and almost applaud their punitive practices is abhorrent. That the public and the government, regardless of scores, allows it to happen without oversight and significant change, is beyond the pale.
12
What public schools do, by leaving kids functionally illiterate, and trapped in poverty is criminal. Success Academy should be applauded for trying to break this cycle.
3
The SA schools in NYC have yet to place a single child into a specialized high school. (So much for good college prospects.)
The SA schools do exceptionally well on the NYS standardized testing. In the case of middle schools, as well as highly selective middle schools who accept children based on prior report cards, standardized testing, and their own admissions tests.
The gap between these achievements is mind blowing and disturbing. I can only think of two explanations. 1. Teaching to the test does not teach real academic skills. 2. Cheating on standardized testing.
The SA schools do exceptionally well on the NYS standardized testing. In the case of middle schools, as well as highly selective middle schools who accept children based on prior report cards, standardized testing, and their own admissions tests.
The gap between these achievements is mind blowing and disturbing. I can only think of two explanations. 1. Teaching to the test does not teach real academic skills. 2. Cheating on standardized testing.
16
It is incredibly difficult to pass the specialized high school test in NYC. I remember in my junior high school graduating class, only one person made it to Stuyvesant HS. It's quite normal for very few or even no students in school to make it into a specialized high school in a given year.
3
As a mother in a "good" suburban school district, I can imagine what it was like for mothers in some of these failing schools before Success Academy was introduced. I would want my child in a structured, safe environment where learning (not disruption) was the order of the day, and teachers worked long hours to help him learn. There is room in Success Academy schools for just 10% of the children who apply; parents are voting with their feet, and we should pay attention to that. As for the 90% (and the rest) who continue in the "regular" school system -- do we really think that's the best we can offer these children?
10
Every student deserves a chance to succeed. I applaud the efforts of Success Academy. The NYC public schools will not get these kids to the top. But those public school teachers sure will have the best pensions.
5
Ahhh yes, we do it for the pension! Thats right I work as a NYC public school teacher for the income I will receive in 25 years. ::::sarcasm::: When you have walked a day in my shoes as an educator with facts to support your criticism... Shaming a student into studying is not the answer.
1
Traditional publi schools are rightly not allowed to humiliate children. Nor are they allowed to expel students who can't stop fidgeting. For gods sakes, these are children not automatons.
Eva Moskowitz has done this country a service in providing a working model of how kids should be educated. In her system, education works; in public schools, it's mostly broken. Who suffers? The kids, of course.
NYT calls her methods polarizing. Well, if that's the word describing them, then "polarizing" is good. Some say the kids are taught like robots, trained to take tests. But they are not. Rather, they are taught the discipline how to learn, and once they do, they succeed on tests. They will grow up to be the most desirable employees and employers in the future.
The article says over 200,000 families apply by lottery for the 2000+ seats. That's a lot of people who crave to get their kids into this system, regardless of what the teachers unions say. The state of New York would profit a lot if they could find ways and means to open up many more schools of this type.
NYT calls her methods polarizing. Well, if that's the word describing them, then "polarizing" is good. Some say the kids are taught like robots, trained to take tests. But they are not. Rather, they are taught the discipline how to learn, and once they do, they succeed on tests. They will grow up to be the most desirable employees and employers in the future.
The article says over 200,000 families apply by lottery for the 2000+ seats. That's a lot of people who crave to get their kids into this system, regardless of what the teachers unions say. The state of New York would profit a lot if they could find ways and means to open up many more schools of this type.
7
Most kids are kicked out by third grade. No Success Academy students have gotten into the specialized high schools. How is that a model for success? If a traditional public school treated children this way, heads would role. And the public is not allowed to know how our tax dollars are spent in these charter schools.
LN: None into specialized high schools? Are you saying the Success Academy students are failures?
Agree, if a current public schools treated kids this way, heads would roll. Because the liberal policies of letting the disrupters continue disrupting and not really caring if the majority learns is part of today's public school culture; no one would dare oppose this failing structure and those who do risk their head being rolled.
How the public dollars are spent is measured by the sucess/failure rates of those finish schools. Every big city papers has weekly articles on how poorly the children, particularly the poor ones, are doing in school. Aren't the kids who finished Success Academies better educated? This article says so; and thus our tax dollars are well spent.
Agree, if a current public schools treated kids this way, heads would roll. Because the liberal policies of letting the disrupters continue disrupting and not really caring if the majority learns is part of today's public school culture; no one would dare oppose this failing structure and those who do risk their head being rolled.
How the public dollars are spent is measured by the sucess/failure rates of those finish schools. Every big city papers has weekly articles on how poorly the children, particularly the poor ones, are doing in school. Aren't the kids who finished Success Academies better educated? This article says so; and thus our tax dollars are well spent.
Although some of the discipline requirements outlined here border on the absurd (flashbacks of nuns but without rulers). I have to agree that discipline and high expectations are sorely missing from many public schools. High expectations do not have to entail endless testing but periodic monitoring of academic development and progress is an essential part of a good curriculum. From what I can see this seems to be an academic program designed by MBA's and sales people rather than educators where numerical results rather than true educational achievement seems to be the principal driver. The fact is that both must coexist in a balanced manner. One thing that is not surprising is that through extraordinary funding from parties outside the public system these schools have all they need such as school supplies and BOOKS! Makes you wonder how much better "regular" public schools would do if they had those basic elements of the educational experience. I've always wondered how a school is to offer any education without books and pencils. Why don't we fund our regular schools so that all students have BOOKS and other essentials and then compare them to these charter schools? Maybe the results would not look so extraordinary then. The fact of the endless bashing of public schools is fairly simple, Jim crow is still alive and well in public education, fans of privatization gleefully point out failing urban schools while ignoring successful suburban ones.
5
"Jim crow is still alive and well in public education?"
Are you kidding me? The biggest beneficiary of charter schools are children in the poorest neighborhoods. If you want to take away these schools and send then back to their failing public schools, then you'd be the one perpetuating Jim Crow in schools. These public schools have been failing for decades, with or without funding.
Are you kidding me? The biggest beneficiary of charter schools are children in the poorest neighborhoods. If you want to take away these schools and send then back to their failing public schools, then you'd be the one perpetuating Jim Crow in schools. These public schools have been failing for decades, with or without funding.
2
We are incensed when a football player "disciplines" a child with a switch, but here we are encouraging what amounts to switching and calling that education. I really had no idea such mean techniques could be intentionally fostered and considered education. Possibly I am naive to be shocked, but I am shocked and saddened.
9
It's about time the media started wising up to Eva "Cruella De Vil" Moskowitz and her test taking empire. I've seen some of these bewildered, sleep deprived Success Academy kids with those heavy backpacks on the A train early in the morning and I feel sorry for them. They don't look like the eager scholars on all those glossy marketing brochures. Thy're not happy campers, that's for sure. Someone should tell their gullible parents who bought this woman's lies that filling in a little circle with a #2 pencil on some exam is not a marketable skill.
11
"And when effort academy and detention and stuff like that is introduced,” she said, “one gets — me personally — really angry and upset.”
One gets - me personally - really angry and upset. She grammatically corrected herself with respect to a complex phrase.
Success Academy is making kids the world had thrown away globally competitive. It's challenging but the kids are showing results: 29 to 64 and 35 to 94 percent on reading and math respectively, a 35-to-59 percent (!) advantage.
I have three words for that: Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
The only problem I see with Success Academy is that they need ten times more schools. There are 20,000 other kids that need and want a great education. It's a sin and a shame that poor kids only get a great education if they win a lottery. Pathetic!
One gets - me personally - really angry and upset. She grammatically corrected herself with respect to a complex phrase.
Success Academy is making kids the world had thrown away globally competitive. It's challenging but the kids are showing results: 29 to 64 and 35 to 94 percent on reading and math respectively, a 35-to-59 percent (!) advantage.
I have three words for that: Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
The only problem I see with Success Academy is that they need ten times more schools. There are 20,000 other kids that need and want a great education. It's a sin and a shame that poor kids only get a great education if they win a lottery. Pathetic!
5
We need more schools that do not cater to ESL students, those with behavioral issues, and does not provide a well-rounded education? That is an odd assertion.
1
None of their students get into the specialized high schools. How is that possible with such superior educational techniques?
I attended Catholic School. I was taught by nuns. Nothing was tougher. BUT we were taken to the bathroom twice during day and our expectations were very high. These charter schools engage in behavior that is nor health for children. Children in charter schools use the bathroom on themselves all the time because they wont let them go to the bathroom. They tell the parents to send an extra set of clothes to school with them for that reason. The children have to sit quietly at recess with their hands folded. This is ridiculous and not required for their success.Catholic Schools have been educating Black and Brown children for years without all of the drama. We need to re-evaluate what is going on in Charter Schools.
3
Good enough to reward schools that deliver good scores, but the more sensible thing is to put our attention - and money - where it's most needed. Motivated kids don't need near as much help or facility as those for whom school isn't a natural habitat. Depriving the low-performing operations can only make them worse.
Testing is not an evil, but using it to punish is. Diagnosing individual student needs is an important guide in any teaching process. Society's needs suggest mandatory testing for all, including even the home-schooled. Again, not as a reason to punish but as honest diagnosis of educational need.
We're evolving, going somewhere. Anyone who's spend classroom time in the excruciating process of drilling can appreciate the computer taking over that task - it makes it much more interesting, even enjoyable, for the student, and progress can be measured effortlessly and accurately. New resources are appearing, e.g., TV shows such as American Ride can add so much; the evolution of our day is like most new things, not totally predictable - but unavoidable.
The only absolute in the picture is that punishment is the last and worst approach, not to mention most unproductive.
Testing is not an evil, but using it to punish is. Diagnosing individual student needs is an important guide in any teaching process. Society's needs suggest mandatory testing for all, including even the home-schooled. Again, not as a reason to punish but as honest diagnosis of educational need.
We're evolving, going somewhere. Anyone who's spend classroom time in the excruciating process of drilling can appreciate the computer taking over that task - it makes it much more interesting, even enjoyable, for the student, and progress can be measured effortlessly and accurately. New resources are appearing, e.g., TV shows such as American Ride can add so much; the evolution of our day is like most new things, not totally predictable - but unavoidable.
The only absolute in the picture is that punishment is the last and worst approach, not to mention most unproductive.
The really sad thing for me is that few of the students going through this conformist education will be able to get jobs. If what you can do can be automated, you will not be able to compete for the few remaining positions of work in the highly automated future toward which we are rushing. A few people, those with creativity or curiosity, will be able to create or research, and the rest - will we smash looms, fight each other and starve, or will we find our way through this paradigm shift?
4
Academic studies have repeatedly demonstrated a sad fact: A white male with an arrest record is 70% more likely to be hired than an IDENTICAL resume of an African-American with a clean record.
Think about that. Identical resumes. Same everything.
The more urgent question? These kids are not attending the elite HS like Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, Lehman or Brooklyn Tech. Colleges are intimately familiar with these schools. Not charters. And admission to these schools is based SOLELY on the Standardized HS Entrance exam.
The funniest thing? Success kids this past summer waited in line for uniforms. On the floor below the distribution center is a neighborhood cancer: A Korean nookie house. I know because of the sign in the window!
Think about that. Identical resumes. Same everything.
The more urgent question? These kids are not attending the elite HS like Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, Lehman or Brooklyn Tech. Colleges are intimately familiar with these schools. Not charters. And admission to these schools is based SOLELY on the Standardized HS Entrance exam.
The funniest thing? Success kids this past summer waited in line for uniforms. On the floor below the distribution center is a neighborhood cancer: A Korean nookie house. I know because of the sign in the window!
2
I read this article and it reminds me of the parochial education that I received in Chicago in the late 50’s and early 60’s, where no disruptions or misbehavior was tolerated. Guilt for not meeting behavioral or educational expectations was inherent in the entire system, and the graduates performed ahead of public school peers. Setting high expectations on behavior and performance and making sure that parents become active participants in their child’s education is the best way to encourage intellectual, emotional, and social achievement. The current trend of making children “feel good” about themselves at all times, giving out trophies and praise for every effort no matter how mediocre, and stroking egos may not be the best approach as the current state of the American educational system has proven. Children need to learn to accept their failures and turn them around instead of always being excused for poor motivation and performance. They need to be constantly challenged to perform at their best in every endeavor. If you don’t believe in this approach you should take a look at “Two Million Minutes” http://www.2mminutes.com/ (probably available at your local library). Hard work and discipline has never stifled creativity in past generations of American students and it will not do it today. Too much coddling and too many excuses are no way to produce a successful adult.
7
While I admire the intention to help students from less advantaged backgrounds succeed academically, I cringe at the tactics being deployed. Running a school like a military institution, with public humiliation claimed as an instrument of 'motivation', ignores the developmental effects of such approach on children's well-being. If a child performs well on a test but develops debilitating anxiety or self-doubt over time, is this truly to be labeled an accomplishment? Schools are a crucial agent of socialization, not just learning. It is a terribly sad statement about our society that we allow such punitive practice to be utilized in the name of educating our most vulnerable children.
5
These kids' weaknesses WILL be exposed either now, when there is a chance for them to improve, or later, when they cannot compete with their peers from around the country (and the world). They are not being made fun of or teased (both of which happen routinely at public schools, mind you), they are simply being informed of a fact: "You must do better."
2
I have seen numerous "new" approaches to teaching children in just 35 years. They seem to have a shelf life of about 5 years until results are not up to expectations. Unfortunately, the parents are left to pick up the pieces of the failures while the administrators launch off in another direction and never bear the costs of their mistakes. The jury is still out on Success. Are they generating a pipeline of well adjusted academics or a torrent of stressed out mass murderers.
2
Well, the German boy wonder who crashed that Germanwings jet was the product of just such a humiliating and rigid education system - and just FYI, there are way too many Germans who are similarly inclined (or are the version where they remain an intimidated Casper Milquetoast all their lives).
In all learning, you have to find ways to motivate children to do their work. Some kids are just naturally motivated and those kids tend to thrive in any environment. Many parents tend to motivate their children in one way or another, whether it is paying them actual money for good grades or rewarding them with toys or treats or special privileges at home. Many parents also use visual reminders of the child successfully completing their work in the form of chore charts. If a child does not complete a task, they do not get a sticker and that will stands as a visual reminder that they did not do their job. The biggest problem with low income areas, in my opinion, is that parents aren't there to motivate their children like parents in higher income areas are. These schools are doing what parents of many successful kids have been doing for decades, giving kids things that they want in exchange for performing well in school and having an active display that shows who is not working as hard as they should for all to see. The only issue I see here is that they are teaching to the test which doesn't always represent actual learning but that is it's own problem within itself that is going to take a lot more than nerf guns and candy to fix.
3
It is really important for the New York Times to investigate the veracity of these test scores, especially since none of the Success graduates is able to pass the admission tests to New York's selective high schools.
Are these schools drilling the students on the exact items on the tests? Who administers these tests? Who grades them? How do the students do on comparable tests that are unseen by the faculty?
Our country is desperately in need of truth in the field of education and we are depending on the press to uncover it. You say that you were not allowed to observe test prep. Why not?
Believe me when I say that cheating on these tests is not unique to Atlanta. Please investigate.
Are these schools drilling the students on the exact items on the tests? Who administers these tests? Who grades them? How do the students do on comparable tests that are unseen by the faculty?
Our country is desperately in need of truth in the field of education and we are depending on the press to uncover it. You say that you were not allowed to observe test prep. Why not?
Believe me when I say that cheating on these tests is not unique to Atlanta. Please investigate.
17
Testing only shows what someone doesn't know; not what someone can do.
It's sad.
It's sad.
3
No. Just no.
Teaching through humiliation and fear is just horrible, wrong, disrespectful and crippling. Holding up high scores as the "proof in the pudding" is a one-eyed vision of "success." I get the concept and the rationale, especially re the inability of poor families to hire expensive tutors. But educating is not about opening the cranium, pouring in a cold soup of knowledge and then telling the child, "Now bring this to a boil." This approach needs to be softened, it's an over-correction. The element of discovery, among other things, seems to be missing here.
As an ESL teacher of native Chinese students in an American high school, it is appalling how many of my students become nervous when asked to make a choice, give an opinion, think creatively. It's eerie.
In pursuit of excellence and a level playing field please put the heart back in the classroom.
Teaching through humiliation and fear is just horrible, wrong, disrespectful and crippling. Holding up high scores as the "proof in the pudding" is a one-eyed vision of "success." I get the concept and the rationale, especially re the inability of poor families to hire expensive tutors. But educating is not about opening the cranium, pouring in a cold soup of knowledge and then telling the child, "Now bring this to a boil." This approach needs to be softened, it's an over-correction. The element of discovery, among other things, seems to be missing here.
As an ESL teacher of native Chinese students in an American high school, it is appalling how many of my students become nervous when asked to make a choice, give an opinion, think creatively. It's eerie.
In pursuit of excellence and a level playing field please put the heart back in the classroom.
17
Please read Kozol's The Shame of the Nation. We should not be satisfied with the type of education described in this article.
6
I see no problem since everyone has to be aligned to educate a kid. Often in public schools this is not the case. Learning is hard, time consuming and unpredictable. This approach may not be for everybody, but they are treating learning like being on a football team. No one objects to the hard work when it comes to sports so why should academic be any different.
3
I am sure part of their success is that they are counselling out the special ed kids and the unmotivated kids, but still, that means that the rest of the kids have an opportunity to shine.
Lets face it, public school education as we know it does not, and has never worked in the inner cities. That is why minority parents opt for the catholic schools if they can afford to, but many of the city's catholic schools shut down. So thank goodness we have the Success charters as a FREE educational option.