I have to laugh at the outrage as well as the "I knew Jon Stewart, and you, sir..." comparisons. I remember quite a few years ago Mr. Stewart did a little bit on NPR/All Things Considered that was horrendously offensive (hint: it involved a Hitler impression). The host read listener reactions a few days later and they were justifiably harsh. But this was back pre-twitter, and Jon Stewart has had time to develop and grow, as well as grow up. Let Mr. Noah do the same.
As the grand-daughter of Auschwitz victims, I welcome Holocaust jokes that turn Nazis in complete idiots. My favorite being Inglourious Basterds, it makes me feel good. On the other to say that behind every rap star is a Jew or something does not, rather it just reminds me of how Jew became to be persecuted forever and by all creeds, whatever that means.
I can't wait to hear, and then turn off forever, Mr Trevor Noah's monkey, slave and bro shooting bro jokes. Although Larry Wilmore touches on it with extreme delicacy and humor.
I doubt very much that Noah has 1/2 ounce of anti-antisemitism or anything like that within but the nature of his soul ain't Kosher.
Chag Sameah
I can't wait to hear, and then turn off forever, Mr Trevor Noah's monkey, slave and bro shooting bro jokes. Although Larry Wilmore touches on it with extreme delicacy and humor.
I doubt very much that Noah has 1/2 ounce of anti-antisemitism or anything like that within but the nature of his soul ain't Kosher.
Chag Sameah
2
Almost all jokes are mean to someone or some group or something. People laugh when its someone else or something they don't have something to do with. Black, Jew, white, republican, democratic, pregnant lady, catholic, gay, etc etc etc etc etc all can be funny except sometimes to the people who fall into the particular category.
When a comedian attacks your special issue then you get offended otherwise you generally laugh if its a good joke.
This is nothing more than a comedian starting out telling Hack jokes for a cheap laugh. Trevor has grown so much as a comedian since then. I am sure he will continue to make fun of the entire world as he sees it, he just wont do it in such a hack way. People will still hate him when he makes fun of there special group.
I bet you many Republicans think Jon Stewart isn't funny and should be through off the air for the Hateful things he says.
When a comedian attacks your special issue then you get offended otherwise you generally laugh if its a good joke.
This is nothing more than a comedian starting out telling Hack jokes for a cheap laugh. Trevor has grown so much as a comedian since then. I am sure he will continue to make fun of the entire world as he sees it, he just wont do it in such a hack way. People will still hate him when he makes fun of there special group.
I bet you many Republicans think Jon Stewart isn't funny and should be through off the air for the Hateful things he says.
3
What Trevor Noah should know is what every successful comedian has: you can make as much fun about people who share your race and religion and now sex or sexual orientation, but you make fun of those who aren't at your own peril.
6
Here's the deal: first misogynist joke on the show from Noah and I'm out. Jon Stewart was a haven from the constant woman-bashing in the media.
22
Kid is off to a great start. People will watch just to be there for his next gaffe. however, this will get boring and within 6 months he will be replaced. Bottom line is that he's not insightful or as brilliant as one needs to be to anchor The Daily Show.
3
Comedians need to find their voice, they can't be funny all the time, blah blah blah... Please.
How is it that Ellen DeGeneres has found her voice without managing to offend/shame/demean other groups, or to be crude in any way? While not everyone can have her style, what makes her great is her ability to tell the truth without dehumanizing anyone.
As a South African, having lived under an oppressive regime with first-hand knowledge of dehumanization under the authority of others, I expect more from this person. He doesn't get to come out from oppression and then do it to other people.
And maybe comics should "find their voice" on a less exposed platform than Twitter!
How is it that Ellen DeGeneres has found her voice without managing to offend/shame/demean other groups, or to be crude in any way? While not everyone can have her style, what makes her great is her ability to tell the truth without dehumanizing anyone.
As a South African, having lived under an oppressive regime with first-hand knowledge of dehumanization under the authority of others, I expect more from this person. He doesn't get to come out from oppression and then do it to other people.
And maybe comics should "find their voice" on a less exposed platform than Twitter!
14
Jon Stewart was always going to be a tough act to follow, and Trevor Noah is a relatively unknown guy. May question why the the CC folk picked a South African, who seems out of sync with American norms and subtleties. And whether he is really funny. So far, he's not very funny. And by the way, he wants to yuk yuk over the way women look, well, how about he looks too GQ for me. I guess it's Stewart's rumpling as the evening wore on, his hair on fire and his eyes popping that I like, among other things, like really good, funny writing. I can't imagine from what I've seen of Noah that he will ever let his cuff links get loose or his palms sweat. And I can't imagine ever feeling fond of Noah.
6
People should watch Trevor Noah's stand-up (available on YouTube)--he's smart, funny, and nuanced on the topic of race and identity. A few dumb jokes on Twitter shouldn't obscure who he really is, and I for one am looking forward to watching him on The Daily Show. Moreover, I'd say that (as is generally the case for overhyped internet controversies) the "offense" for a comic is mysteriously exaggerated--if you scoured the transcripts of the Daily Show and Colbert you'd find plenty of jokes that are more "offensive" on similar topics. And where's the outrage over "South Park", which actually does cross the line and deploy racist humor on a regular basis?
7
Branum brings up some excellent and fascinating points within this article, serving as a gentle reminder that when comedy jokes are directed at certain people or religious groups, not everyone will find the humour. That being said, every comedian has to try and find the right material, given that it doesn't send their audience into a total backlash.
For example, if we were to see Jimmy Fallon/Kimmel try to pull off a racial joke, they may get laughs from the white community, but racial bias will play a pivotal role here, as the African-American community won't be afraid to express their disgust, should they take offense. If you have someone like Kevin Hart making the same joke, well then… it starts to transcend into something of a double standard.
Now, for Noah having to replace the legendary Jon Stewart on the Today Show, he has the (advantage?) of being African-American, so he'll end up on the good side of the double standard should be make self-deprecating jokes towards himself or his ethnicity. Another thing about The Daily Show that really set itself apart from other comedy shows was that it was never afraid to push the political boundary, making jabs at just about everything and anything that was going on in the world. Noah will have to be as fearless and as daring as Stewart when it comes to making these jokes if he wants to leave as much of an impact on pop culture and Jon Stewart did when he hosted. Only time will tell, I suppose.
For example, if we were to see Jimmy Fallon/Kimmel try to pull off a racial joke, they may get laughs from the white community, but racial bias will play a pivotal role here, as the African-American community won't be afraid to express their disgust, should they take offense. If you have someone like Kevin Hart making the same joke, well then… it starts to transcend into something of a double standard.
Now, for Noah having to replace the legendary Jon Stewart on the Today Show, he has the (advantage?) of being African-American, so he'll end up on the good side of the double standard should be make self-deprecating jokes towards himself or his ethnicity. Another thing about The Daily Show that really set itself apart from other comedy shows was that it was never afraid to push the political boundary, making jabs at just about everything and anything that was going on in the world. Noah will have to be as fearless and as daring as Stewart when it comes to making these jokes if he wants to leave as much of an impact on pop culture and Jon Stewart did when he hosted. Only time will tell, I suppose.
1
In the entire world of comedy, he's the only choice for this great franchise?
6
How frightening that the consensus here is that "He is anti-Semetic and a mysogynist. The Comedy Channel needs to cut their losses quickly."
As a proud Jew who has more than once said (and acted on), "Apologize or defend yourself" over anti-Semitic insults, and has vociferously spoken out against racism and misogyny, I call BS.
I've read Mr. Noah's "offending" Tweets. They are humorful. Not everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. What quality humor is? The political correctness that is the basis of the charges against him is frightening.
As a proud Jew who has more than once said (and acted on), "Apologize or defend yourself" over anti-Semitic insults, and has vociferously spoken out against racism and misogyny, I call BS.
I've read Mr. Noah's "offending" Tweets. They are humorful. Not everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. What quality humor is? The political correctness that is the basis of the charges against him is frightening.
8
The jokes were just so tired and lame. He's not ready for this caliber of show.
6
Having never "Twittered" nor "Facebooked" and having no future intention of ever doing either, I have neither outrage nor sympathy for what Trevor Noah or anyone else who does gets caught writing or saying. Having never been an entertaining political public figure I have neither outrage nor sympathy for those who choose to do so.
If you expect anyone to expect your individuality and privacy then you should act like a private individual instead of as a member of a public team clan herd tribe.
If you expect anyone to expect your individuality and privacy then you should act like a private individual instead of as a member of a public team clan herd tribe.
1
It’s no doubt unfair to point out that the uniquely gifted Jon Stewart would never crack jokes like Noah’s on twitter, and in fact he’d likely attack them as prejudicial. But the fact is, Noah comes across as a self-important young bloviator (but not in a Colbert-ian way). Maybe that’s a defense against the tribulations of growing up mixed-race in South Africa. I’m willing to believe that. And while Noah stood out as refreshingly tart (which is different from the other Daily Show regulars), he wasn’t nearly funny enough in his 3 appearances.
That said, I welcome a foreigner’s viewpoint on the Daily Show. In fact, my choice to replace Stewart is Bassem Youssem, who has his own comedy show in Egypt and appeared as one of Stewart’s guests. But he might be considered too old?
That said, I welcome a foreigner’s viewpoint on the Daily Show. In fact, my choice to replace Stewart is Bassem Youssem, who has his own comedy show in Egypt and appeared as one of Stewart’s guests. But he might be considered too old?
2
Remember, TV is about selling stuff.... so "offensive" is what reduces advertising revenue. PERIOD.
Any arguments about morality, sensitivity or even about truly funny are irrelevant and miss the point.
Any arguments about morality, sensitivity or even about truly funny are irrelevant and miss the point.
what a great piece of writing. insights about the comedy process and experience are always welcome. we have much to learn, comedy is practically a cult. the word "comedy" as the label for this performance form is fairly insipid.
1
Evaluating Noah simply on his appearances thus far on The Daily Show, I found it puzzling that he was given Jon Stewart's place behind the desk. He was completely devoid of presence. Since this article I have taken time to review the 'offending tweets' and find these lacking in the wit and intelligence it will take to succeed.
11
There is more to being host of a notable show than being a comedian. If that's all Jon Stewart was, he would have been long gone. There are elements of warmth, smart guy next door, super intelligence and a whole lot more than makes up the Jon Stewart chemistry that registers with his viewers. It remains to be seen whether Trevor Noah has that 'je ne sais quoi'. Right now I am doubtful he'll draw an audience over the long term. I was a regular watcher of Colbert; after a week, I stopped watching Wilmore. It isn't fun enough to stay up for. (and I really mean Fun, not funny).
8
i'm looking forward to the trevor noah comedy routine about people on twitter, people who trawl the garbage on twitter, and people who take what they find on twitter seriously.
9
The bottom line is that Noah thinks it's funny to ridicule white women, Jewish women, fat women and Jewish people in general. His excuse is that when he tweeted those tweets he was young and still honing his comic skills and is not a reflection of who he really is. He has yet to apologize to anyone he's offended.
IMO what a person finds funny and believes others will find funny IS a reflection of who that person is, how that person thinks, and what attitudes that person has. Yes, Noah is free to make any jokes he wants as a comic and by the same token people are also free to find them unfunny, offensive, and bigoted. Comics don't get a pass because they're comics any more than a bigot at a party does in making the same kind of tasteless jokes.
It's a shame that Noah is the one deemed by CC as worthy of succeeding Jon Stewart.
IMO what a person finds funny and believes others will find funny IS a reflection of who that person is, how that person thinks, and what attitudes that person has. Yes, Noah is free to make any jokes he wants as a comic and by the same token people are also free to find them unfunny, offensive, and bigoted. Comics don't get a pass because they're comics any more than a bigot at a party does in making the same kind of tasteless jokes.
It's a shame that Noah is the one deemed by CC as worthy of succeeding Jon Stewart.
44
Great analysis there Mr. Branum, I think it's right on the nose. My apologies for offending anyone with large or unattractive noses.
What I've found in my years of blogging out into the ether is another factor in play here. There is a certain percentage of society who are primed to be offended by certain subjects; not most people but maybe 15% of everyone can easily be greatly offended by mentioning a topic, and then that breaks down into smaller sections of who's offended by what. Spike Lee might be highly offended by the use of the N-word in "Django Unchained", but not at all troubled by the use of the J-word in "Flags of Our Fathers" (it's short for Japanese, it's highly offensive, but not for Spike). Nor is Spike at all troubled by the N-word in "Do the Right Thing".
So there are people just itching to be vocally annoyed at the use of various terms, or saying anything about a certain group of people, and so forth. Nearly impossible to avoid it if one is going to discuss anything interesting. This is ably demonstrated by certain comments right here.
I've usually managed to offend people too, sometimes catching me totally off guard, and I guess I've got some advice for Mr. Noah. When it isn't everyone that's offended, you have to not give a damn. They'll whine about it but there's nothing they can do, you've got freedom of speech, and if they really wanted to, they could not be offended. And taking offense hasn't killed anyone since dueling was outlawed.
What I've found in my years of blogging out into the ether is another factor in play here. There is a certain percentage of society who are primed to be offended by certain subjects; not most people but maybe 15% of everyone can easily be greatly offended by mentioning a topic, and then that breaks down into smaller sections of who's offended by what. Spike Lee might be highly offended by the use of the N-word in "Django Unchained", but not at all troubled by the use of the J-word in "Flags of Our Fathers" (it's short for Japanese, it's highly offensive, but not for Spike). Nor is Spike at all troubled by the N-word in "Do the Right Thing".
So there are people just itching to be vocally annoyed at the use of various terms, or saying anything about a certain group of people, and so forth. Nearly impossible to avoid it if one is going to discuss anything interesting. This is ably demonstrated by certain comments right here.
I've usually managed to offend people too, sometimes catching me totally off guard, and I guess I've got some advice for Mr. Noah. When it isn't everyone that's offended, you have to not give a damn. They'll whine about it but there's nothing they can do, you've got freedom of speech, and if they really wanted to, they could not be offended. And taking offense hasn't killed anyone since dueling was outlawed.
13
Racism, misogyny, religious intolerance and blasphemy exported from South Africa of all places - now there's a thing and an major irony, and the world applauds the "man"? My how short your memories and convictions are America.
5
Had the Daily Show picked a white redneck (work with me here) as the next host and we discovered his tweets of tired anti-black stereotypes, I have a feeling that the author might not have cut the guy so much slack. One of the things that made John Stewart so great was the fact that he spoke truth to power. When you hear right wingers crack jokes, they go after the weak; minority women, gays, immigrants, not the powerful. Stewart took it right to the powerful, both Democrat and Republican.
If Noah thinks it is funny to make fun of women with a weight problem and to traffic in old Jewish stereotypes during a world wide explosion in anti-semitism, then he is not showing bravery by taking on the powerful, he is going after the weak, he is not being funny, and he won't be on the Daily Show for long because the ratings will plummet.
If Noah thinks it is funny to make fun of women with a weight problem and to traffic in old Jewish stereotypes during a world wide explosion in anti-semitism, then he is not showing bravery by taking on the powerful, he is going after the weak, he is not being funny, and he won't be on the Daily Show for long because the ratings will plummet.
12
As these comments reflect, many people will not care or will find a rationale to dismiss the antisemitism and sexism in these "jokes." That group includes racists and bigots who like to laugh at Jews and women. It's not an audience I feel comfortable being a part of. It is a great honor (and responsibilty) to host a national program. I guess we have to hope that power is used wisely in this case. But we've been put on notice: a comic can ridicule Jews and women and become a star in America. And he doesn't even have to apologize because there are lots of people eager to make his excuses for him. Sorry, I've seen that act before.
7
It is important to keep in mind the "league" Trevor Noah is joining as a Comedy Central star. Among its qualities and ethics established by Jon Stewart are: mental/intellectual and physical comic brilliance; a voice that speaks to and encourages those seeking a better, more just world; a fearlessness about challenging the powerful, tempered by relevance, in the choice of topics, issues, and people being discussed; and clear respect and genuine concern for those among us who are the most disrespected and least valued. All this and more, including iconic stature, are a very hard act for anyone to follow. In the case of Trever Noah, Comedy Central did not try hard enough to follow it.
6
If you want edgy comedy, you need to stay on the edge in terms of where you perform. Stepping into a now mainstream platform like the the Daily Show requires a change of pace and in doing that, Noah will lose his edge, which will damage not only him, but the Daily Show as well.
Sigh. Taking offense has become a major industry.
7
Twitter and other social media sites have become McCarthyism of the Twenty First century. Interest groups of all persuasions, but mostly, liberals, use them to intimidate anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.
This is destroying the freedom of speech, and humor.
This is destroying the freedom of speech, and humor.
2
I truly do not understand the vitriol directed at Trevor Noah. Were some of his jokes in poor taste or just not funny at all? Yes, of course. But find me a comedian who has never made an inappropriate joke in their career, and I'll show you a bad comedian.
I think it is important to remember that Mr. Noah was raised by mixed-race parents in South Africa during the apartheid, which was not only illegal, but highly dangerous. Not only that, but his mother is half-Jewish, so I highly doubt he is anti-Semitic. To say that his worldview is narrow as many claim, is to ignore the realities of this man's life. Yes, some of his jokes were offensive, but let's ease of the gas pedal a little before claiming this man is a bigot.
I think it is important to remember that Mr. Noah was raised by mixed-race parents in South Africa during the apartheid, which was not only illegal, but highly dangerous. Not only that, but his mother is half-Jewish, so I highly doubt he is anti-Semitic. To say that his worldview is narrow as many claim, is to ignore the realities of this man's life. Yes, some of his jokes were offensive, but let's ease of the gas pedal a little before claiming this man is a bigot.
37
Twitter is not made for comedy. It provides no context, no physical cues, no voice, no tone and no theater/television audience. What works in stand-up may fall utterly flat in a tweet and vice versa. It is possible to make jokes about women, men, ethnic groups, people of color, homosexuals, straight people, transgender people, religious groups, politicians and any other target and be funny. The context in which the joke is told, the language that is used and the delivery of the joke itself all matter. Jokes that may offend in stand-up may be doubly offensive in a Tweet. I agree that there is too much political correctness in our culture. We need to recognize that humor takes the edge off. And if this young man Trevor Noah is as talented as people think he is, he will probably do just fine.
23
Two points: 1) Twitter is "a place where people show who they are," wrote one commenter. Now there's a narrow view of the world; Guy Branum explained very nicely how comedians use Twitter. 2) Everyone speaks about the Daily Show as if Jon Stewart is the sole contributor of content to the show. Credit to the *14* writers besides Stewart who give the show its take on the world. If this Twitter brouhaha hasn't been enough, surely those writers will be expert guides for Trevor Noah as he goes forward.
1
When it comes to the digital world, the media are always the last to work things out.
Twitter and Facebook comments don't matter.
Anyone, including the disaffected, the illiterate, subteens, and the emotionally disturbed (ie, the "social media critics"), can post their rants and ruminations, and the media will dutifully count them up and publish a "consensus view". And that is even after seeing the embarrassing quality of the comments that appear following their own online offerings.
So it will all right itself in time as journalists gradually build an awareness that the "social media" are a waste of their time as well as ours.
And people such as Mr Noah do not feel compelled to publish a response to their nonsense.
Twitter and Facebook comments don't matter.
Anyone, including the disaffected, the illiterate, subteens, and the emotionally disturbed (ie, the "social media critics"), can post their rants and ruminations, and the media will dutifully count them up and publish a "consensus view". And that is even after seeing the embarrassing quality of the comments that appear following their own online offerings.
So it will all right itself in time as journalists gradually build an awareness that the "social media" are a waste of their time as well as ours.
And people such as Mr Noah do not feel compelled to publish a response to their nonsense.
The author makes valid points w/respect to the portrait of a comedian. None of that means that Noah is ready for the big stage. I would be interested in hearing a detailed account as to how CC/TDS decided upon him as opposed to other comedians. If they were looking for a non-white artist there must certainly be "binders" full of women and other underrepresented classes of comedians from which to choose - and why not an American? The parodies will be bashing American institutions, after all.
5
I know nothing about Trevor Noah's comedy skills, good or bad, but the guy who wrote this piece, Guy Branum, is the same guy who wrote a (not obviously) satirical piece in the UCBerkley student paper ten or fifteen years ago suggesting that someone should assassinate Chelsea Clinton who was then a freshman at neighboring Stanford U. It seems to me therefore that Mr. Branum is no expert on what constitutes good comedy.
8
Thanks for pointing that out. Mr. Branum said that "his column ... was meant to be satirical", but the US Secret Service was not amused:
Writer's Room Is Searched
November 27, 1997
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/27/us/writer-s-room-is-searched.html
Writer's Room Is Searched
November 27, 1997
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/27/us/writer-s-room-is-searched.html
There's a lot of fake outrage over this guy's tweets. I'm guessing many of these posters have not even watched Mr. Noah perform on the Daily Show yet.
Some of his jokes can certainly be construed as offensive, but a lot of his tweets reveal a deep truth about how women are treated in our society. It's not him condoning the behavior, just a reflection on society's behavior towards women.
Some of his jokes can certainly be construed as offensive, but a lot of his tweets reveal a deep truth about how women are treated in our society. It's not him condoning the behavior, just a reflection on society's behavior towards women.
5
Trevor, don't let the self-righteous social media tirade against your tasteless but nonetheless trivial tweets from more than two years ago tear you down. I, for one, am still looking forward to your premiere as new host of the Daily Show.
"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." – Nelson Mandela
"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." – Nelson Mandela
4
It is, I think, a fair complaint that some people have become too thin-skinned--that they take offense too easily. (It's also true that humor can serve to marginalize people in a hurtful way.) But I suspect that there is sometimes another dynamic involved when people protest that they are offended by humor. It can be a way to direct some hard-to-win media attention on a cause that some people care deeply about. The claim to be highly offended allows one to simultaneously assert the status of victim, claim the moral high ground, and direct attention on an issue of concern. I suspect that often what's really offensive is not so much the joke that misfired but the fact that so little attention is being paid to something they feel is so important. The media likes stories of people being offended because the readers/viewers seem to like this sort of emotional human conflict. Claiming offense is, then, a means to what is seen as a worthy goal.
Let's be perfectly clear. The problem is not his jokes. It's his judgment.
10
Twitter and mean jokes aside, it seems that a mature, whip smart comic like Jon Stewart is being replaced by a little boy. Is Trevor Noah going to be able to keep the audience Stewart built?
2
Tasteless? Yes.
But I must say, I'd sure hate to be judged today (by today's) standards for my behavior, beliefs, comments when I was 20 years old. Trevor Noah is only 30 years old. I'm glad his judgement and behavior have matured. I hope they will continue. I'm sure he'll have stumbles...but heck...don't we all.
But I must say, I'd sure hate to be judged today (by today's) standards for my behavior, beliefs, comments when I was 20 years old. Trevor Noah is only 30 years old. I'm glad his judgement and behavior have matured. I hope they will continue. I'm sure he'll have stumbles...but heck...don't we all.
1
The depressing reality is that we ain't never gonna replace Jon Stewart. His brand of comedy ridiculed ideas, not people. I sense a mean-spirited core to Trevor Noah that is totally inconsistent with the Stewart/Colbert meme.
3
Twitter is the world's biggest collection of people who are dying to take offence at something.
Worse, it's often people who don't even belong to the group they perceive has been slighted. They're taking offence on behalf of that group.
Worse, it's often people who don't even belong to the group they perceive has been slighted. They're taking offence on behalf of that group.
4
Humor is context-sensitive and audience-sensitive. A basic rule is that you can tell a joke about doctors at a convention of doctors, but not if there is only one doctor in the room. A joke about Irishmen told in an Irish bar might be hilariously self-deprecating, but if told when there is only one Irishman in the room it would be cruel and insensitive. Some of the best Polish jokes I ever heard came from my friend Jim Ulezelski. He claimed he was really Italian, but people had trouble spelling "Ulezelskianni".
A lot of jokes that are great when originally told to their intended audience will seem tasteless, cruel or racist when taken out of context.
A lot of jokes that are great when originally told to their intended audience will seem tasteless, cruel or racist when taken out of context.
2
Another "tired rubric" is the incessant carting out of the "white, straight, male power" trope to safely identify oneself politically by using race, sex, and gender as a derogatory point of contrast, all in the name of some enlightened perspective on race, sex, and gender. These tropes "aren’t just bad and hurtful; they reinforce" a divisive, prejudicial notion that values, ideals, and behaviors are simply demographically bound. It's a trope that is ultimately self-undermining.
3
I have not read the tweets. Yet if Jon Stewart is not replaced with someone with intelligent humor the show will die a fast death. We have too many options. I would agree with Colbert coming back to Comedy Central.
If you can't stand the heat of twitter, don't even think about visiting the kitchen of nighttime comedy. What works as a side kick does not necessarily carry a show.
If you can't stand the heat of twitter, don't even think about visiting the kitchen of nighttime comedy. What works as a side kick does not necessarily carry a show.
2
Branum's essay, Trevor Noah's Tweets make me realize how much Robin Williams is missed. Williams' humor was screamingly funny, incredibly apt and never, ever cruel, hurtful or meanspirited. A pox on this generation of comedians and their acid tongued fairy godmother, Joan Rivers.
2
How can anyone go completely unscathed under the hyper-scrutiny of social media? Twitter is hardly a safe space to try out new material. When one needs to constantly gain and entertain followers missteps are inevitable. Not to mention there are plenty of people who are jealous or even seeking to sabotage Mr. Noah's future or people who just love drawing attention to themselves by creating controversy where none would have existed. There may finally be such a thing as bad press when the trolls are controlling the conversation.
1
John Stewart is a brilliant satirist. It is hard for me to comprehend how comedy central thought that Noah Trevor could replace him. I certainly will never watch the show again when he takes over. I find him to be not funny and extremely insulting.
2
Given today's toxic climate, Trevor Noah must not get a free pass. It's time for him to go.
3
Missing a vital point -- stand up comedy is premised on a connection between the comedian and the audience. There is no connection with two-dimensional twitter. The reader cannot tell whether the author is being sarcastic or serious, as there are neither verbal nor physical clues being expressed along with the words.
1
When someone says they're a comedian, it's good idea to assume they're joking.
Your AIDS joke may not have been as inappropriate as you think. My dad has Parkinson's, and I've come up with a few Parkinson's jokes that are surprisingly amusing to people that have Parkinson's but that make those who don't have it very uncomfortable. Likewise, jokes about colonoscopies have particular appeal to those people that have recently had a colonoscopy. But on the contrary, women with breast implants do not enjoy hearing jokes about women with breast implants. It's all a learning process.
1
Noah is just the latest victim of the "tear down" mentality that social media has exacerbated. What was once solely in the domain of the fourth estate and used to advance the political convictions of the owners of various media outlets, is now open to anyone with internet access who feel it their duty to perform their own vetting process on someone who has achieved some modicum of success in the public light. A sad commentary.
1
My biggest concern is his knowledge of American politics. I feel like there could have been so many others chosen who would be more "in the loop" when it comes to DC and American politics in general. I have a feeling he will come off as just reading what was written for him, rather than understanding the dynamics of what is written.
Why they wouldn't hire an American comedian is beyond me.
Why they wouldn't hire an American comedian is beyond me.
5
Here's the problem. Comedians act like they have some sort of free pass to abuse and disrespect certain stereotypes, and the media tends to give them that pass. Unless, of course, they go over the line. Michael Richards (of Seinfeld fame) did that a few years ago and destroyed his career - white man making jokes about black men is generally not a good idea for career advancement in the entertainment industry. Of course, non-comedians cannot make off color jokes and get away with it because they are not comedians. So, as a society, we allow comedians to be politically incorrect and no one else. That's fabulous.
3
"Good stand-up comedy cannot be safe; it must shock or surprise an audience."
But it also has to make me laugh, not make me feel uncomfortable. Otherwise it's not comedy, it's politics
But it also has to make me laugh, not make me feel uncomfortable. Otherwise it's not comedy, it's politics
4
We need to redefine the concept of "being offended" back to what it should be - a person sets out to offend you and succeeds, or a person offends you in a way that you could not avoid. The idea that you can go back 6 years to find some obscure tweet and "be offended" by that is both morally and grammatically nonsensical. You do have the right to "take offense", but at least be honest about the intent. You have gone out of your way to find a reason to be angry with someone who has not done you any harm.
If we could somehow capture the creative energy people use to find excuses to be offended into something useful, we could probably solve most of the world's problems ...
If we could somehow capture the creative energy people use to find excuses to be offended into something useful, we could probably solve most of the world's problems ...
71
Question: Are you a woman or Jewish? If you're not, then IMO you have no ground to stand on in preaching about not being offended since none of the tweets in question were at your expense.
The fine lines between funny and insulting are context, tone, and nuance. Unfortunately on Twitter, it is the written word, in 140 characters, with no context, no tone, and no nuance. FWIW: As an American Jew, the only tweet I found offensive was not even about "Jews", but about "Israel" being inherently violent and warmongering. It wasn't funny or factual, and it gave me pause as to his worldview, given that there is a tendency on the far left to be rabidly anti-Israel while apologizing for far more brutal regimes in the region.
2
The right to fail is, truly, a precious privilege; a great privilege. All artists need the right to fail. The thing about Mr. Noah's jokes is that they represent part of the reason there are very few women or Asian very successful stand-up comedians: they don't ever GET that right. He's privileged, and he'd go even deeper and be even funnier if he acknowledged himself as such.
1
I used to be a part of the outrage machine on Twitter I also studied it and presented its dynamics for a university project on discourse. The outrage is often performative ("As a member of X community I must respond."), it's also done to gain followers who will form smaller groups that operate between each other. The group will find a target, and relentlessly bully the person under the pretense that they need to be punished -- punished for not being sophisticated enough to know higher concepts about race, gender, etc. These groups are highly educated, and although they were taught these higher concepts by someone else, they expect others to inherently know the concepts and will use pedantic jargon in order to intellectually overpower their target. When I was involved we exulted in our behavior behind the scenes. Popular Twitter users, stars and politicians are not the only potential victims; the outrage machine often viciously attacks each other when one member's purity is questioned.
3
If fat girl jokes are examples of him exploring his comedy, then he is a sorry substitute for Jon Stewart.
2
There are some premises in this article that I beieve are wrong about the development of jokes and comedians. So if they are wrong any valid conclusion is questionable. It is just one man's attempt to rationalize an acceptable reason for bad jokes. Hey, we have a giant history of comedians and jokes to look back at to see what does not work. There are obvious jokes to stay away from and so much more to still be hysterical. And today's comedians live in today's society. If jokes fall flat, maybe your sense of humor is more out-of-touch than insightful. At what point in the trial and error process of writing a joke, do you stop being yourself and are just trying to be popular.
In Conclusion- Good Luck Mr. Noah. I hope you have great success on the Daily Show. "Anyone know a good fart joke?
In Conclusion- Good Luck Mr. Noah. I hope you have great success on the Daily Show. "Anyone know a good fart joke?
He's just not funny. The Daily Show is finished.
2
I posted early on; but my post must've been lost. I read more of this lad's "jokes' and using the word joke is a real stretch. He is lame, unfunny and just the right ideology to fit in on the "Daily Show".
1
Had this been a white American guy, or God forbid, right leaning American white guy, the NYTimes and many of the commenters here, would be flipping out after hearing such jokes. But he's not. He's a mixed race South African. Which equals a politically correct orgasm for the liberal press. Left wing confusion can indeed be a comedy show.
4
Stewart soft-pedaled criticism of the Middle East like most comedians. It has become a life and death issue to take sides in any way their. Noah as a South African is much further from the issue and has a different perspective. The critics of his perspective are now seeking to censure his comments on that contentious battleground. It would be unacceptable for death threats to a cartoonist who drew a face to be so threatened but we do have our sacred cows.
1
If comedians can't make offensive racial, ethnic, religious, gender and sexual-orientation jokes, what have we become as a people?
1
Jon Stewart has always given credit to his writers, and for good reason.
It is obvious that together they think through every angle of what could go wrong on their jokes and the angle of their insights -- and Fox is always ready to pounce on every perceived or imagined insult or outrage. On the handful of occasions when things went wrong, Stewart immediately and sincerely apologized -- which you don't see happening on the side of his most vociferous critics.
The Daily Show is a collective effort, which made all of its stars who they are. It will be the same for Noah. He will grow into his role, just as all of the others have.
And those who look for pretexts for their outrage will continue to find reasons to be outraged. That seems to be pretty much the whole purpose of Twitter and social media in general for them.
It is obvious that together they think through every angle of what could go wrong on their jokes and the angle of their insights -- and Fox is always ready to pounce on every perceived or imagined insult or outrage. On the handful of occasions when things went wrong, Stewart immediately and sincerely apologized -- which you don't see happening on the side of his most vociferous critics.
The Daily Show is a collective effort, which made all of its stars who they are. It will be the same for Noah. He will grow into his role, just as all of the others have.
And those who look for pretexts for their outrage will continue to find reasons to be outraged. That seems to be pretty much the whole purpose of Twitter and social media in general for them.
1
Twitter may not be able to take a joke, but this example is hardly proof. These tweets weren't shocking or funny. Just lame.
2
The elephant in the room...How does a South African lead Indecision 2016 coverage? I am sorry but this is not his country and he does not know what it is to grow up here or to live with the consequences of our elections.
He should have started with a smaller show that he could build into a big show (like Stewart did with the Daily Show). Instead he is starting with a big show and immediately makes it smaller and less relevant.
He should have started with a smaller show that he could build into a big show (like Stewart did with the Daily Show). Instead he is starting with a big show and immediately makes it smaller and less relevant.
3
We all say stupid, inexcusable things, especially when we're young. But now you can relay something stupid on Twitter that will be used to try to get you fired from a job 10 years down the road. The moral of this story is: never, ever tweet. Ever.
1
I don't watch the Daily Show to "give a winning lottery ticket to a multicultural wannabe comedian," I watch the show for entertainment. As such, I'm really upset we won't have John Oliver or any of the other funny yet brainy / sophisticated comedians with a good heart...the standard set by Jon Stewart. Comedy Central execs strained to find ethnic diversity without paying heed to the talents and personality characteristics that made Stewart such a successful host. Noah's appearances on the show were downright boring and forgettable. In fact, like everyone else I didn't remember them and had to find them online. His sense of humor is sophomoric and the open prejudices he expresses towards women, jews, etc just have no place on this show or anywhere on television for that matter. He's just not ready for prime time. I suspect millions of other Daily Show viewers feel similarly let down and will be searching for a new show for that time slot. It's a big opportunity for another network to find someone more like Stewart.
3
Anything posted on a Facebook account or Twitter feed should be regarded as something that could end up on the front page of the NY Times. Just like Trevor Noah's comments did.
The fact that people are shocked by this surprises me.
And folks are working hard to give away more of their privacy so they can get things faster and easier (see cellphone payment apps and services) while they don't think about the consequences.
Nothing's free, as Trevor Noah is learning.
The fact that people are shocked by this surprises me.
And folks are working hard to give away more of their privacy so they can get things faster and easier (see cellphone payment apps and services) while they don't think about the consequences.
Nothing's free, as Trevor Noah is learning.
1
I'd like to hear Mr. Branum's view on self-deprecating humor. Is he as keen on making jokes at his own expense as he is at that of others? Does he take offense at personal digs he receives in response to personal digs he takes at others?
Trevor Noah is a South African comedian. South African stand-up would have about three quarters of American college students curled up in a foetal ball clutching their blankies in a safe space. Here It is practically impossible to offend an audience. It may be that many of us are still kinda racist and actually harbour stereotypical views of other ethnic groups but I have a feeling that because we are regularly confronted with overt and crude racism, sexism and any other phobia or intolerance you can imagine we simply do not take offensive humour seriously.
Trevor Noah isn't stupid. He'll adapt. But perhaps he can give Americans a glimpse of how the rest of the (especially developing) world see you and the inanities you take so terribly seriously.
Trevor Noah isn't stupid. He'll adapt. But perhaps he can give Americans a glimpse of how the rest of the (especially developing) world see you and the inanities you take so terribly seriously.
54
Mr. Noah is being defended by people who would normally pounce on his remarks because "The Daily Show" franchise has become a rallying point for progressives. His comments are being glossed over by some for the same reason women's rights advocates often have lost their voice on the subject of the Clinton's aggressive handling of his problems with women he was alleged to be involved with. It is a double standard, but one which will be tolerated as long as Noah drops that portion of his persona and continues The Daily Show's proud tradition of Mad Magazine style mockery as revealed insight.
18
When a white man makes a joke about a black man, it is racial bias. When a partially black man makes joke about women and Jews, those reacting can't take a joke. That says it all!
23
It may just be that given South Africa's contentious history and especially given that under Apartheid there were things that - regardless of colour or ethnicity - you could not say without the risk of being put under house arrest, driven into exile, imprisoned, and/or killed, South Africans have a greater appreciation of the freedom to speak their minds than do Americans, who take for granted their freedom to speak their own minds and are now more concerned with preventing others from speaking theirs.
5
No. You've said nothing. The critics of Noah are being consistent with your first statement. That is, when a white man makes a bad joke about a black man it's offensive, and similarly, when a partially black man makes a bad joke about women and Jews is offensive. They are being consistent, regardless of what you think of their point. You are not.
"That says it all." Really?
I beg to differ.
It appears to me that worldwide the mass media has piled on Trevor Noah's insensitive comments as it usually does, bombarding us with sensory overload.
This being Holy Week, it wouldn't surprise me the holier-than-thou mob doesn't start shouting out for his crucifixion.
Was the majority of the public previous to Mister Noah's extremely unsavory attempts at humor even aware of who he was?
D.D.
Manhattan
I beg to differ.
It appears to me that worldwide the mass media has piled on Trevor Noah's insensitive comments as it usually does, bombarding us with sensory overload.
This being Holy Week, it wouldn't surprise me the holier-than-thou mob doesn't start shouting out for his crucifixion.
Was the majority of the public previous to Mister Noah's extremely unsavory attempts at humor even aware of who he was?
D.D.
Manhattan
This is the new way of the world: almost every individual, especially comedians, will have his or her Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, et al. accounts scoured and scrutinized for the slightest hint of impolitic or imprudent or merely immature thoughts. Sooner rather than later, this will apply to political candidates, to include those running for president, men and women whose teenage and 20s histories will likely be available in at least some form. Mistakes that we never knew about before will be captured and available for us to review (assuming these people haven't paid to have their search results scrubbed). Thoughts once confined to private journals will be accessible. Even worse, perhaps, is that the comparatively rare individual who *doesn't* have this digital history will be seen in a suspicious light, i.e., what are you trying to hide from us???
The joking business is like any other business, you need customers. Sure, you have every right to make whatever products you want, but if your product, your jokes, turn off people, you get less and less customers; eventually, you're back to selling your products to a handful of customers in a hole in the wall. Be a wise businessman Trevor Noah.
2
Twitter has no context. Plus, the sheer amount of garbage on Twitter, as noted by Mr. Branum, has trained people who read tweets to expect banality and actually impose it on everything.
Take the funniest one-liners from Rodney Dangerfield or Henny Youngman, put them up on Twitter and they'll fall flat.
Twitter destroys the funny.
Take the funniest one-liners from Rodney Dangerfield or Henny Youngman, put them up on Twitter and they'll fall flat.
Twitter destroys the funny.
8
I wonder if the tone deaf suits at Comedy Central that selected this guy are now shaking there heads and saying, "Oh no, what have we done?" It's very hard to tell whether a tweet is serious or ironic but it is easy to tell whether it is funny and his comments just aren't. I think hiring a guy from South Africa to do satire on American politics is stupid. This controversy is making the stakes even higher. I predict either the Daily Show or its new host will be gone before the snow flies.
20
TDS is about world politics not just American.
One of his comic efforts was a 10 minute video of crickets chirping. How on earth did he get chosen? A nice biracial euro-African, not one of those angry and socially unacceptable American Black men or God forbid, a woman.
I wonder if the treading softly would occur if Mr. Noah were on Fox? Never happen. I watched Fox today and they supported the South African and wished him well. However, his initial work was, well, just not funny or well thought out. Maybe in time he will become better and therefore become a real darling for many. He has passed the Don Imus test without any calls for a boycott. So silly really.
3
This PC culture has run amok. Who is to decide what is and what is not funny? Should artists self censor?
I would love to hear what a comedian like Don Rickles would have to say about this?
Should every joke, every email, every script or play, every painting or song, all be run by an expert panel in linguistics to make sure no one is "triggered" or offended by something? Should we all start wearing beige lest colorblind folks feel left out? While we are blazing ahead with our technology, as humanity is racing into the new millennium, it feels like we are regressing in tolerance and open thought.
You do not have to agree with someone else's views. That does not give you the right to shout them down. Social media has made the echo chamber of one's own thoughts to be magnified.
Social Justice Warriors are looking for things to be offended by now.
Good art, whether it's comedy, film, music or what ever else, challenges you. You may not respect it. You may even hate it.
But it has something to say. That part cannot be denied. The best part of living in a free society is if you disagree with something, you have the right to not engage.
Yet, there are those who will decide for the rest of us what we should and should not think and feel. The sad part is it's mostly coming from progressives. The times posted a fantastic article about creating "safe spaces" so as to not offend or challenge students. Yet I believe that being challenged is the very purpose of higher learning.
I would love to hear what a comedian like Don Rickles would have to say about this?
Should every joke, every email, every script or play, every painting or song, all be run by an expert panel in linguistics to make sure no one is "triggered" or offended by something? Should we all start wearing beige lest colorblind folks feel left out? While we are blazing ahead with our technology, as humanity is racing into the new millennium, it feels like we are regressing in tolerance and open thought.
You do not have to agree with someone else's views. That does not give you the right to shout them down. Social media has made the echo chamber of one's own thoughts to be magnified.
Social Justice Warriors are looking for things to be offended by now.
Good art, whether it's comedy, film, music or what ever else, challenges you. You may not respect it. You may even hate it.
But it has something to say. That part cannot be denied. The best part of living in a free society is if you disagree with something, you have the right to not engage.
Yet, there are those who will decide for the rest of us what we should and should not think and feel. The sad part is it's mostly coming from progressives. The times posted a fantastic article about creating "safe spaces" so as to not offend or challenge students. Yet I believe that being challenged is the very purpose of higher learning.
12
Mr. Noah's jokes about fat women are so utterly juvenile and mean. The premise that he needs a space to try jokes like this out and see if they work is too generous. Maybe if he were in middle school. But following in the footsteps of a genius like Stewart, who created a venue that changed both comedy and politics forever? I'm worried.
36
The problem with this guy is that he believes that offensive equals funny and that he is better than everyone (everyone, black, white brown and white) and the rest of us better not forget it! I get that making fun of Americans and white Americans is comedy because everyone laughs including white Americans. But it does get tiresome. Most of his aren't Americans funny jokes aren't really funny they are just arrogant complaints about how bad he has been treated. Well, join the club. By the way, if its so awful here why did you come.
12
In complaining about Trevor Noah’s “cheap jokes at the expense of marginalized groups” such as “women, Jews and fat people,” is Mr. Branum implying that Jews are one of the marginalized groups in comedy?
Really?
Really?
5
Not in comedy but in world history.
I will not feel bad for a twitter user no matter how funny they think they are. Twitter... is not worth it. It is a social media trap.
15
Is the new response to offensive jokes "the problem is that they aren't funny"? That's the same thing people were saying last week about Lena Dunham's New Yorker article comparing dogs and her Jewish boyfriend: "It's not that it's anti-Semitic - it's just not funny".
Tell me, what joke about Jews could a non-Jew make that WOULD be funny? Pretty much the only funny Jew jokes I've heard are ones told by comics who identify as Jewish. Otherwise it's just uncomfortable.
Tell me, what joke about Jews could a non-Jew make that WOULD be funny? Pretty much the only funny Jew jokes I've heard are ones told by comics who identify as Jewish. Otherwise it's just uncomfortable.
9
I can forgive a comic for pushing the boundaries. Trevor made some tasteless tweets and he should be sorry that he did that. I am not happy that Comedy Central chose Trevor Noah. I didn't find him the least bit funny on his three appearances on The Daily Show. With the upcoming election, I would prefer an American as the host. Trevor is the wrong choice to replace Jon Stewart.
42
I agree. I won't be watching The Daily Show anymore.
Jon Stewart is impressed with him ... Jon Stewart thinks American audiences should become broader in outlook. I agree. It was the actor Paul Hogan (Crocodile Dundee) in a live interview with Barbara Walters who said that Americans take themselves too seriously. I lived in the US for 8 years - in general, I agree with him. You only have to look at the current state of the GOP to see just how filled with their own self-importance they have become.
I wonder what the comments on here would be like if the tweets in question came from some old, white, Republican senator instead of some young, hip, South African with a cool name.
48
It isn't the fault of Twitter. And Trevor Noah isn't Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks or Richard Pryor. He is a provincial South African comedian on the make, whose grasp of the world beyond his country is shaky at best.
18
To say that he was anti-semetic or racist is ignoring the obvious point that he was a young artist attempting to hone his craft, and in today's age that means rather than a lyceum this young man has twitter.
What his random tweets, the 9 in particular that the media has a particular problem with, are sub-par and amatuer. We must remember that at the time, he had no idea that he would someday be in contention for arguably the most effective platform for political satire in the market.
We are all watching the evolution of a young comic. The ability to take a risk is inherent in every creative art medium and is a mandatory step into maturing as an artist. We should not chastise this man for honing his craft, rather, we should examine the petty reaction to the fabricated outrage to his twitter feed.
What his random tweets, the 9 in particular that the media has a particular problem with, are sub-par and amatuer. We must remember that at the time, he had no idea that he would someday be in contention for arguably the most effective platform for political satire in the market.
We are all watching the evolution of a young comic. The ability to take a risk is inherent in every creative art medium and is a mandatory step into maturing as an artist. We should not chastise this man for honing his craft, rather, we should examine the petty reaction to the fabricated outrage to his twitter feed.
14
@Stergios
Go back and read what you wrote.
In effect what you're saying is he had no reason to hide what he truly felt because he didn't know he'd ever be in a position to take over one of the most popular political satire shows in the United States.
I think you've made it worse.
Go back and read what you wrote.
In effect what you're saying is he had no reason to hide what he truly felt because he didn't know he'd ever be in a position to take over one of the most popular political satire shows in the United States.
I think you've made it worse.
Mr. Branum opened his piece by writing that he thought it was OK to joke about aids because he is gay. Maybe Tevor Noah was fat at one time. He certainly has never been a woman, and probably was never Jewish.
And as Mr. Branum discovered, it isn't OK to make hurtful jokes about "your own" anyway.
And as Mr. Branum discovered, it isn't OK to make hurtful jokes about "your own" anyway.
7
The best forms of humor are always directed back at the person who delivers the joke or the punch line. It shows a certain humility and self-awareness and, occasionally, vulnerability.
What is troubling about the Trevor Noah situation is not that he was making jokes about other people. What is most troubling about him is the way that "thought police" rush in to protect the sensitive ears of others and set their sights on dismantling his career. The same thing happened to Michael Richards, from Seinfeld, several years ago when he used the "n" word. What is so utterly ridiculous about the Richards episode is that Blacks continue to write that into songs and call each other by that name on the street.
What is utterly beyond tiresome is not Noah's choice of comedic targets. It is the "lighten up" crowd who needs to get a life and allow people like Noah to deal with his audience on his own terms. Most people are intelligent enough to know when someone has crossed a comedic line. And we don't need to be out policing people's brain waves to know whether they were inwardly laughing at the Jewish, gay, or racist joke.
Far worse insults are hurled with real animus and pass for acceptable speech every day. It is high time we let adults be adults and suffer the quiet and real condemnation when it comes, rather than have media elites sitting from on high to declare whether a South African is more worthy than a gay woman to become a new comedy show host.
Please get over it.
What is troubling about the Trevor Noah situation is not that he was making jokes about other people. What is most troubling about him is the way that "thought police" rush in to protect the sensitive ears of others and set their sights on dismantling his career. The same thing happened to Michael Richards, from Seinfeld, several years ago when he used the "n" word. What is so utterly ridiculous about the Richards episode is that Blacks continue to write that into songs and call each other by that name on the street.
What is utterly beyond tiresome is not Noah's choice of comedic targets. It is the "lighten up" crowd who needs to get a life and allow people like Noah to deal with his audience on his own terms. Most people are intelligent enough to know when someone has crossed a comedic line. And we don't need to be out policing people's brain waves to know whether they were inwardly laughing at the Jewish, gay, or racist joke.
Far worse insults are hurled with real animus and pass for acceptable speech every day. It is high time we let adults be adults and suffer the quiet and real condemnation when it comes, rather than have media elites sitting from on high to declare whether a South African is more worthy than a gay woman to become a new comedy show host.
Please get over it.
14
He must have also been a woman and a jew. Of course people are upset. Jon Stewart was a liberal hero and force for good. Now we have a hack who mocks American Blacks and may have insensitive, offensive jokes. And just in time for the 2016 elections. Noah's a rightwing dream,, anti-semitism, disparagement of Black America, sexism, all in one person.
It's interesting how many black, white, non Jewish males who are not the butt of Noah's unfunny tweets tell others they shouldn't be offended. Jokes at other people's expense and not at your own certainly are easy to minimize and preach to others about overlooking.
1
I'm quite certain Jon Stewart wrote more than a few lousy jokes when he was learning his craft. Of course he didn't have to contend with an indelible record of them being available to the public.
Trevor Noah's lousy jokes in this case, were quite lousy, but worst of all: they were not funny. It's quite possible to joke about race, sex, religion, and everything else under the sun, but in our very modern world of "triggers" and "micro-aggressions" even the mildest remark or ribbing is becoming taboo. For shame that we are becoming so thin-skinned.
Trevor Noah's lousy jokes in this case, were quite lousy, but worst of all: they were not funny. It's quite possible to joke about race, sex, religion, and everything else under the sun, but in our very modern world of "triggers" and "micro-aggressions" even the mildest remark or ribbing is becoming taboo. For shame that we are becoming so thin-skinned.
49
The similarities regarding background/heritage both Mr. Noah and the President share seem to be enough to bring out the less than best in some of our diverse culture.
1
Oh please Ian MacFarlane. A man tweets bad jokes about Jews and fat women. Many people don't like the bad jokes. The man tweeting the bad jokes is half Black, half white. The President is half Black, half white. Thus, people who don't like bad jokes are bigots?
1
Real comics laugh at themselves. Pedants laugh at other people. Comedy died with George Carlin.
7
If you say it, you own it.
13
Please do not let over-reaction to tweets destroy another career, especially when only a few out of 9000 don't reflect the highest standards of political correctness.
From his first appearance on the Daily Show, it was clear that Mr Noah has an intelligent presence and insightful perspectives. And he is funny. Give the guy a chance, for mercy's sake.
There has been a heck of a lot of press about Trevor Noah's tweets this week. Most of it seems like churning the waters, hoping something else dramatic will rise from the muck. Maybe there are other topics of greater priority we can discuss -- sooner rather than later.
From his first appearance on the Daily Show, it was clear that Mr Noah has an intelligent presence and insightful perspectives. And he is funny. Give the guy a chance, for mercy's sake.
There has been a heck of a lot of press about Trevor Noah's tweets this week. Most of it seems like churning the waters, hoping something else dramatic will rise from the muck. Maybe there are other topics of greater priority we can discuss -- sooner rather than later.
11
"American audiences used to laugh at blackface, Mickey Rooney as Mr. I. Y. Yunioshi and any number of other caricatures. We grew out of those jokes." No we did not. The Asian excitedly speaking heavily accented improper English "bit" continues to be endlessly recycled. Even America's most "hip" and powerful purveyors of comedy seemingly can't resist this lazy tired trope. Most recent cases : "The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt" Vietnamese Chinese fast food delivery boyfriend who hilariously speaks improper heavily accented English. "Better Call Saul" Saul has his office in the back of a -- wait for it --Asian nail salon -- whose management and workers again speak hilarious heavily accented English. Major Hollywood films are no less keen on this trope. Trust me recent examples could go on for pages. You can argue this is all good fun but if, as is the reality, these roles make up a very significant portion of the only roles Asians offered to Asians in the US entertainment there is a problem. It also raises an important and sensitive point. It seems the US entertainment industry while exceptionally attuned to not giving offense to some marginalised groups is very comfortable asking Asian actors to "Say that line again but this time say it more excitedly in a funny Asian accent and mangle your English. Seriously, comic gold!" Must get pretty old after the first 2 or 3 times and like all stereotypes it must be very comforting to those exercising the power necessary to perpetuate it.
2
It is not just in superficial Hollywood. A long while ago, I taught at a sprawling university in the south for years. Never was I assumed to be a professor even at faculty functions. The first question from the professors was always: "Are you a graduate student?" Occasionally, an undergrad mistook me for a student, but that was a different story since young people are dumb about reading people's age. What luck! You were in the vanity fair business, and your colleagues forced you to take pride in looking young (about half your actual age, that is). Well, Hollywood could use the "look young' bit if they don't want to look helplessly stuck in the speech bit.
I think the key is that being at the helm of The Daily Show is a bigger deal than most comedy posts. Its meaning goes beyond the world of comedy... not only because it's how many people get their news, but because the comedy is a kind of meta-news in itself, not just random jokes about the news but often a humorous expression of our collective despair and impotent wisdom in the face of larger forces. The show was born, after all, out of the Bush era. It seems wrong to just plug any decent comic into the slot--you want someone who embodies, to a certain extent, that state of mind, that role. Not just any tv-attractive person professionally proven capable of making quips and handling an audience.
4
Trevor Noah is getting waaaay more attention than he deserves. (Yet.)
2
I think it's great that Trevor Noah got the job; it's a huge achievement, but with so much to satirize in the world there's no excuse for a comedian who chooses to make jokes out of people's challenges. It's cheap and nasty.
Noah is going to have to step up considerably to come close to continuing the legacy of Stewart's razor-sharp, intelligent wit.
Noah is going to have to step up considerably to come close to continuing the legacy of Stewart's razor-sharp, intelligent wit.
4
Why aren't people incensed at some of the outrageous things the brilliant Louis CK says? Because we know Louis CK is a kind and decent man who makes us laugh. The people who are angry at Trever Noah don't know anything else about him and therefore make absurd assumptions about the man.
It's unfair to form an opinion about a comic based on a few Tweets.
It's unfair to form an opinion about a comic based on a few Tweets.
1
I found this article to be really thought provoking about comedy in general. It certainly makes sense that a comedian is going to be offensive, and make mistakes creating his/her jokes - especially during the learning process. Our press lauded the extremes of Charlie Hedbo in France (I was surprised that our press was so supportive when at home we are required to be so politically correct). For me, the message is that humor and satire need to push the boundaries to be effective and that we need to accept that some mistakes will be made along the way.
1
The problem is, this charitable attitude Branum espouses is only extended selectively ie when it is convenient to the race/gender grievance hustle, as it is in this case. If a young white comic had gotten the job and these tweets emerged I'm sure Branum would be calling for him to be fired and calling him a racist.
4
The difference between good comedy and bad comedy is truly in the delivery and the context. It is about a slow build up to a great punch line, and unfortunately with a 140 character limit, it is difficult to get that right. With the space constraints, the context is lost and things can sound offensive.
But at the end of the day he has been hired for a job with professional writers who will be there to aid him in what to say. His time on air will be the proving ground for wether a few phrasing snafus on twitter are the true nature of his comedy, or if they were just the least flattering fringe of his work. Lets hope he can deliver with his delivery!
But at the end of the day he has been hired for a job with professional writers who will be there to aid him in what to say. His time on air will be the proving ground for wether a few phrasing snafus on twitter are the true nature of his comedy, or if they were just the least flattering fringe of his work. Lets hope he can deliver with his delivery!
So bad impressions of gays and Asians, complaints about unattractive women, mockery of African-American names, etc. are tropes from the past and not funny; but of course jokes about Jews and fat people are not old (only 5,000 years or so) and are funny? When the WASP jokes and other jokes made at the expense of the power structure are coming thick and heavy, maybe I'll buy that.
5
I forgot one other thing: if you inserted 'black' or 'African-American' into some of those jokes (or slightly modified them), Mr. Noah would already have lost his shot at The Daily Show. But some groups don't get the protection that others do.
10
I applaud this article. We all made missteps as we were starting out in our chosen professions. For most of us these were small incidents that involved only those in our current work environment at the time, and they disappeared quickly. For performers, the stakes are higher, the audience wider, the history all too well documented. Let's give Mr. Noah a chance.
1
A comedian is entitled to tell a joke, but he or she cannot control the reaction of the audience, close-by or far away. The audience is entitled to its reaction and if the joke needs to be explained, then it probably was not that funny either.
Words, even of a joke, count. Words can have consequences. Nobody gets a free pass on consequences for actions or words.
Words, even of a joke, count. Words can have consequences. Nobody gets a free pass on consequences for actions or words.
4
The tweets referenced in the vitriol aimed at Trevor Noah are not particularly hilarious. That said, I find it hard to believe so many are truly offended by comedians saying things that might otherwise be inappropriate.
Isn't part of the joy of comedy that little twinge of guilt you get when you're laughing out loud at something that feels a bit "wrong"?
Isn't part of the joy of comedy that little twinge of guilt you get when you're laughing out loud at something that feels a bit "wrong"?
1
" American audiences used to laugh at blackface, Mickey Rooney as Mr. I. Y. Yunioshi and any number of other caricatures. We grew out of those jokes."
Apparently, though, the "audience" never tires of Jew jokes.
Proud to be part of Noah's "learning curve."
Is this what they mean by the "Eternal People?"
Apparently, though, the "audience" never tires of Jew jokes.
Proud to be part of Noah's "learning curve."
Is this what they mean by the "Eternal People?"
4
Twitter.... where everyone's stupidest idea lands to make a huge pile of garbage in which, if one searches long enough, there is a diamond or two, perhaps along the lines of HL Mencken's "Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy."
He was using an old typewriter.... Ahhh, the eureka moment: THERE WAS creativity and wit BERFORE the Internet.
Twitter never toppled anything, it just makes the issue noisy, as do all the other social media.
And rightly, however, Noah should not be judged by his twiticisms. He should be judged by his ability to prepare the show, get into Jon Stewart's shoes, develop it and evolve it. Noah is younger, perhaps inclined to more prickly jokes, and he must realize that the Stewart audience is fairly savvy... doing ethnic stuff doesn't work well here (Russell Peters has become a bore with it, it is aggressive and cheap), being mean is not the right way.
Noah will have to grow into the show. But I suspect if Stewart and CC offered him the job, it's because he is good and has potential. Finished products don't get jobs.
He was using an old typewriter.... Ahhh, the eureka moment: THERE WAS creativity and wit BERFORE the Internet.
Twitter never toppled anything, it just makes the issue noisy, as do all the other social media.
And rightly, however, Noah should not be judged by his twiticisms. He should be judged by his ability to prepare the show, get into Jon Stewart's shoes, develop it and evolve it. Noah is younger, perhaps inclined to more prickly jokes, and he must realize that the Stewart audience is fairly savvy... doing ethnic stuff doesn't work well here (Russell Peters has become a bore with it, it is aggressive and cheap), being mean is not the right way.
Noah will have to grow into the show. But I suspect if Stewart and CC offered him the job, it's because he is good and has potential. Finished products don't get jobs.
4
Twitter has all sorts, and it takes time to find the intelligent or witty commenters, but they are there. Indeed the NYT posts on Twitter. And it's an important venue for The Daily Show.
Social media has changed some basic assumptions. We have not yet modified things to deal with things that just don't go away.
The European idea of a privacy right to be forgotten is impractical. However, they've identified the problem.
What is needed is the spirit to know and forgive anyway. It is the spirit of the old judge or old priest, who has seen too much. Now we all see too much to remain so judgmental.
Mistakes are very common. If they are going to live on forever, we will need to live with them. That is true for all of us, not just the other guy, not just the one caught today.
And at least back then, this guy knew nothing about Jewish women in particular, and not enough about women in general. We can hope for everyone's sake that he's grown up.
The European idea of a privacy right to be forgotten is impractical. However, they've identified the problem.
What is needed is the spirit to know and forgive anyway. It is the spirit of the old judge or old priest, who has seen too much. Now we all see too much to remain so judgmental.
Mistakes are very common. If they are going to live on forever, we will need to live with them. That is true for all of us, not just the other guy, not just the one caught today.
And at least back then, this guy knew nothing about Jewish women in particular, and not enough about women in general. We can hope for everyone's sake that he's grown up.
2
i'll miss colbert. i'll miss stewart. i still miss johnny.
4
His jokes are not only racists and anti-Semitic, they are mostly not really funny.
6
Twitter never toppled a government. There were revolutions before it and there will be many more after it. Human history is too complex to reduce a silly statement like that. It's a tired trope that self inflates Silicon Valley's ego and I wish people would stop repeating it.
There are plenty of comedians who I refuse to watch because I find their humor in bad taste or offensive. I just don't turn them on or go to their website. They won't get my business. Why do I have to go get all bent out of shape? I just don't let it into my life, problem solved and a lot less stress. Easy.
5
But he is not funny. Not in person, not on twitter.
6
Our wonderful John Stewart has made more jokes of all religions "oddities"( including Judaism) and every other politically correct topic known to man. I haven't heard him speak of Trevor's supposed comedic faux pas. But I'm sure he'll tell the critics to friggin lighten up. The boundaries of satire and comedic observations are and should be almost boundless! Looking forward to Trevor's unique take on the world!
1
It's ok. He's a liberal.
4
This defense doesn't work in this case.
“Jokes” that perpetuate stale, insulting, stereotypes about any group reflect, and foster, bigotry, and usually aren’t funny. And then there’s this tweet of Trevor Noah’s that’s come out: “Originally when men proposed they went down on one knee so if the woman said no they were in the perfect uppercut position.” So let’s add misogyny to his credentials.
“Jokes” that perpetuate stale, insulting, stereotypes about any group reflect, and foster, bigotry, and usually aren’t funny. And then there’s this tweet of Trevor Noah’s that’s come out: “Originally when men proposed they went down on one knee so if the woman said no they were in the perfect uppercut position.” So let’s add misogyny to his credentials.
11
What is truly stunning is seeing an editorial like this in the NY Times with none of the Noah tweets in question quoted. It's just like their poor coverage of the murders at Charlie Hebdo, and lack of journalistic integrity in avoiding printing the cover that the French satirical magazine ran after the killings at their offices, a cover which will live on as the highest standards of humane behavior in the wake of the ultimate inhumane behavior. So, going to more reputable sources that do in fact quote some of the Noah tweets, so that we can figure this out ourselves and not follow the extreme bias at the Times, we see that it was more than a "handful" pf tweets, that they are truly offensive to all parties, and nope, they are not in any way "jokes" rather, they are digs at people that Noah does not care for, and that he feels have no voice or importance. Comedy Central, you have to be out of your minds to try to foist someone on us in the lead seat at The Daily Show in the run up to a US election who knows nothing about our political system, and who is frankly offensive and not funny. Go back to the drawing board to do a do-over, cause we are not going to watch this guy in Jon Stewart's seat. Just like we are not watching Larry Wilmore (his ratings are around a 0.2, down from 0.5? Noah's will be undetectable).
18
This isn't an editorial.
aww, I like Larry. Sure, it's not Stewart, the 'panel' format is kinda awkward but give him time to evolve and find his footing. To be honest, I got fed up with Colbert in its last year and stopped watching. Jokes got really tired, there were too many pointless musical guests, and it was full of gratuitous product tie-ins. I'm definitely staying far away from his new thing and wouldn't want to see him back on CC.
Funny that the op-ed mentions mockery of African-American names as not only tired, but bad and hurtful: Trevor Noah's appearance on Jay Leno leaned rather heavily on this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT3L1IOJhD8
Truthfully, I've seen very little of his work. But I haven't seen anything so far (again, limited sample) that convinces me that he's particularly skilled in the art of satire, which is best when it punches up (except, you know, that tweet of his about how men propose on bended knee because it's easier to uppercut the woman if she says no.)
I know not all jokes "land." I know comedians have to walk an edge and that testing that edge is an intrinsic part of the art. As a feminist who has laughed hard at skilled jokes about very unfunny subjects, I get that. But I'm getting pretty sick of comedians and their defenders automatically implying I'm some humourless, PC harpy who doesn't get comedy if I dare criticize jokes that ACTUALLY DON'T walk any sort of edge, but operate firmly within the established power structure that already derides, dismisses, and makes fun of certain groups, practices, and people. In such comedy, there is simply no edge, just tired re-inscription of the status quo.
It's also suspect to me that in these situations, the freedom of speech principle that licenses comedians saying whatever they want is so unevenly applied. Tired joke that punches down needs all the freedom; rightfully complaining about the joke on Twitter should shut up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT3L1IOJhD8
Truthfully, I've seen very little of his work. But I haven't seen anything so far (again, limited sample) that convinces me that he's particularly skilled in the art of satire, which is best when it punches up (except, you know, that tweet of his about how men propose on bended knee because it's easier to uppercut the woman if she says no.)
I know not all jokes "land." I know comedians have to walk an edge and that testing that edge is an intrinsic part of the art. As a feminist who has laughed hard at skilled jokes about very unfunny subjects, I get that. But I'm getting pretty sick of comedians and their defenders automatically implying I'm some humourless, PC harpy who doesn't get comedy if I dare criticize jokes that ACTUALLY DON'T walk any sort of edge, but operate firmly within the established power structure that already derides, dismisses, and makes fun of certain groups, practices, and people. In such comedy, there is simply no edge, just tired re-inscription of the status quo.
It's also suspect to me that in these situations, the freedom of speech principle that licenses comedians saying whatever they want is so unevenly applied. Tired joke that punches down needs all the freedom; rightfully complaining about the joke on Twitter should shut up.
35
Thanks for posting the you tube link. I watched. It was painful for a lot of reasons. How did he go from that to The Daily Show? What am I missing?
So he's not anti-Semitic, he just makes jokes about Jews. Did I miss his jokes about Muslims crossing a street? Even sadder for Comedy Central, the jokes were not funny at all. And he's not very funny, at least from what I can see of his performances on YT. He may or may not be anti-Semitic but he does dislike Israel. I'm sure that will play well on TV. Or not.
12
I could say something about tweeting here which I don't do but I won't say. It only encourages those who do.
1
It's amazing how many decisions are made based on Twitter feedback. Pretty much any time a public figure makes an offensive statement (major or minor), lazy newscasters and journalists turn to Twitter to gauge the public's response.
Minor issues seem to balloon as Twitter users bombard decision makers and the media with outrage. In reality, these are just bored people (many likely children) with nothing better to do. So, they pull out their phone, mash a few buttons and feel like they've made some sort of contribution to the betterment of our world. At best, this is the laziest form of activism the world has ever know. At worst it is crowd-sourced bullying.
Twitter is designed to avoid complication and maintain simplicity in communication. We shouldn't be surprised that simple is the proper definition of many of its users.
Hopefully people learn to stop paying attention to Twitter and look to platforms with actual substance.
Minor issues seem to balloon as Twitter users bombard decision makers and the media with outrage. In reality, these are just bored people (many likely children) with nothing better to do. So, they pull out their phone, mash a few buttons and feel like they've made some sort of contribution to the betterment of our world. At best, this is the laziest form of activism the world has ever know. At worst it is crowd-sourced bullying.
Twitter is designed to avoid complication and maintain simplicity in communication. We shouldn't be surprised that simple is the proper definition of many of its users.
Hopefully people learn to stop paying attention to Twitter and look to platforms with actual substance.
12
Simple is the proper definition for his ridiculous tweets.
The more troubling problem with Trevor Nash's jokes, as many have said, is that they are not funny. Those I read were awkwardly constructed, obvious misses. Even his three appearances on the show were not that great. It's a good thing the Daily Show has a crack writing staff.
15
What Jon Stewart does so well is that we are laughing with him not at a joke. We are both on the same side. It looks like Comedy Central is abandoning the concept of The Daily Show being us looking at ourselves through the Jon Stewart lens to looking at ourselves by someone who is going to point fingers, because they didn't grow up with the "suburbs" and how our nation has changed. The biggest thing that Jon Stewart provided was "trust", yes, things were funny, but they were sophisticated, we learned about our nation, it was satire. I would have liked anyone who grew up in this nation to have headed this gig. American comics could have learned on the job just as well.
16
I've heard that if you're in a group and make jokes about it-it's often accepted but if you're the "other"-then you're accused of whatever. You get the idea.
I think Jon Stewart could say things re: being Jewish because he is & that others maybe couldn't and that may goes for black comedians but white people can't say the joke. Where is Joan Rivers when I need her?
I think Jon Stewart could say things re: being Jewish because he is & that others maybe couldn't and that may goes for black comedians but white people can't say the joke. Where is Joan Rivers when I need her?
1
The Daily Show's critiques are powerful in large part because they come from a man of nearly unimpeachable character. You may disagree with Jon Stewart's politics, but his indignation at right-wing racism, classism, homophobia and sexism resonates precisely because he is not perceived as racist, classist, homophobic or sexist. He IS the enlightened, compassionate, liberal person that he implores his viewers to emulate.
Trevor Noah, however, will not be able issue commentary from such a rarefied place. And the potency of his satire will certainly suffer because to many it will smack of hypocrisy (whether real or perceived), no matter how well-written and delivered it may be.
Do I think his tweets mean that he is a bigot? Not necessarily. But do I think that make him unfit to fill Jon Stewart's shows? Absolutely.
Trevor Noah, however, will not be able issue commentary from such a rarefied place. And the potency of his satire will certainly suffer because to many it will smack of hypocrisy (whether real or perceived), no matter how well-written and delivered it may be.
Do I think his tweets mean that he is a bigot? Not necessarily. But do I think that make him unfit to fill Jon Stewart's shows? Absolutely.
62
You may be right, but Stewart was lucky enough to have a pre-Twitter stand-up career.
If you follow that argument then no-one will be able to fill Jon's shoes. I'm 99.99% sure that Jon made his share of offensive bombs. The difference is that nobody knows or remembers them because they happened in some dive at Time Square that nobody cares about.
Anyone that grew up after about 1994, on the other hand, will have all of their offensive bombs visible somewhere online. Either that or they won't have the online savvy to remain relevant and current.
Anyone that grew up after about 1994, on the other hand, will have all of their offensive bombs visible somewhere online. Either that or they won't have the online savvy to remain relevant and current.
In the evolution of the world, intelligent people will soon come to realize the complete waste that twitter is.
Tell any of those jokes to an audience in a comedy club and no complaint. Put it on twitter and raise the ire of lord-knows-who.
Please, someone show me a twitter message in the news that is actually positive. I have never seen any. Rather, I only see nonsense (meaning some comment that no one cares you've made) or ones with the masses irate about.
Apologetic tweets are not "good ones". Add up the time in your life spent on this baloney and realize all you're doing is begging someone to be upset with you.
Tell any of those jokes to an audience in a comedy club and no complaint. Put it on twitter and raise the ire of lord-knows-who.
Please, someone show me a twitter message in the news that is actually positive. I have never seen any. Rather, I only see nonsense (meaning some comment that no one cares you've made) or ones with the masses irate about.
Apologetic tweets are not "good ones". Add up the time in your life spent on this baloney and realize all you're doing is begging someone to be upset with you.
16
Sometimes I think we are living in what I call the "age of umbrage."
Seems like so many of us are constantly looking for and sensing insult and injury everywhere.
Living lives of defensiveness, hyper sensitivity, perceived slight at any comment.
Some comments clearly have no malice behind them.
They are good or bad attempts at humor. Nothing more.
And they must be taken within context.
The whole scene must be perceived.
Who is speaking?
What's their intent?
Are they known for malicious comments or are they clearly of better nature?
At long last we need to lighten our hearts and allow for some humor so long as it's not so vicious it crosses the line. Why can some of us no longer discern that line?
Maybe the real crime is loss of perspective, context, semblance of humor and a rush to umbrage.
Seems like so many of us are constantly looking for and sensing insult and injury everywhere.
Living lives of defensiveness, hyper sensitivity, perceived slight at any comment.
Some comments clearly have no malice behind them.
They are good or bad attempts at humor. Nothing more.
And they must be taken within context.
The whole scene must be perceived.
Who is speaking?
What's their intent?
Are they known for malicious comments or are they clearly of better nature?
At long last we need to lighten our hearts and allow for some humor so long as it's not so vicious it crosses the line. Why can some of us no longer discern that line?
Maybe the real crime is loss of perspective, context, semblance of humor and a rush to umbrage.
48
The 'rush to umbrage' is actually a form of bullying, in which the bully makes others responsible for his or her feelings to force them into silence. The only appropriate response is to say 'I can't help how you feel; you're free to respond or rebut'. The irony here is that many of the people wielding this weapon have one rule for themselves, another for those they oppose or disagree with.
For centuries the world languished under the iron hand of blasphemy laws, which enforced groupthink. Even now there are places in the world where brains are in chains, so to speak, for fear of 'offending'. When you speak your piece, consider only whether it is true. You may prune excessive rhetoric or mis-aimed humour - but never withhold a word solely to avoid offending something, because usually they're the one who need to be offended.
For centuries the world languished under the iron hand of blasphemy laws, which enforced groupthink. Even now there are places in the world where brains are in chains, so to speak, for fear of 'offending'. When you speak your piece, consider only whether it is true. You may prune excessive rhetoric or mis-aimed humour - but never withhold a word solely to avoid offending something, because usually they're the one who need to be offended.
1
I've heard a lifetime of insults and demeaning comments disguised as "jokes." What you describe as over-sensitivity I would describe as having manners.
Nobody needs a lecture from a white male on how the rest of us should feel about racist, sexist "joke."
Nobody needs a lecture from a white male on how the rest of us should feel about racist, sexist "joke."
No, the real crime is the elevation of mediocrity whether it's the Kardashians or the banality of tweets. It's beyond annoying.
Would love for Colbert to back out of replacing Letterman and stay on ComedyCentral, making it an hour show, with just a few tweaks. I don't know about this Treavor Noah guy, on his own. Colbert on CBS. UGH.
9
I think Colbert is relieved to no longer inhabit that satirical character, and to be free of dealing on an almost daily basis with those who inhabit that character in earnest (O'Reilly, Carlson, Hannity). I'm sure it drains the soul and saps your will to live, even when you maintain a sense of humor. Stewart said as much. After years of great service, I look forward to seeing both Stewart and Colbert happy and healthy, and the torch passed on to a new generation.
We have the option of not watching Fox. They did not. Think about it.
We have the option of not watching Fox. They did not. Think about it.
Through the years, under Jon Stewart's watch, The Daily Show has become an invaluable and reliable voice of truth and political correctness. By exposing hypocrisy and corruption through satire, Jon Stewart has been our watchdog. Trevor Noah can try out any joke he wants as a stand up comedian. The problem is that his jokes are politically incorrect and incompatible with The Daily Show format.
54
'Politically correct'
'politically incorrect'
'incompatible with the Daily Show format'
You just crystallised, I think, why I never liked it the Daily Show (and particularly not Stewart). It's an echo chamber, just as the Fox pundits are, and are admired, just as their shows are by their constituents, for feeding the fans back exactly what they already agree with.
I doubt anyone who just adores the Daily Show (or Fox) has ever been shocked or provoked into actual thought ... perish forbid. It's a chance to pat yourself on the back, pin another medal on yourself, and confirm what you already 'know'.
This may be why Trevor Noah's getting such blowback: he's pushed you out of your comfort zone.
'politically incorrect'
'incompatible with the Daily Show format'
You just crystallised, I think, why I never liked it the Daily Show (and particularly not Stewart). It's an echo chamber, just as the Fox pundits are, and are admired, just as their shows are by their constituents, for feeding the fans back exactly what they already agree with.
I doubt anyone who just adores the Daily Show (or Fox) has ever been shocked or provoked into actual thought ... perish forbid. It's a chance to pat yourself on the back, pin another medal on yourself, and confirm what you already 'know'.
This may be why Trevor Noah's getting such blowback: he's pushed you out of your comfort zone.
Imagine thinking that political correctness is a good thing..
Political correctness is the opposite of truth. It's the purposeful avoidance of unpleasant truths and not a positive thing.
The first Daily Show episode with Trevor Noah as a correspondent was a masterful piece - breaking down stereotypes of Africa vs the US. My first impression was - where did they find this guy - he has talent. While I will miss Stewart, Trevor is the kind of intellectual comic I expect from the show. I would like to see an American comic skewer the American political establishment, but John Oliver did a fine job while Stewart was away.
I have read the "offending" tweets. If the 30 or so bad jokes are the worst of the 9,000 posts, a 99.3% comedy hit rate is pretty good. This kid will bring a fresh new talent to my 11pm whiskey. Welcome Trevor.
I have read the "offending" tweets. If the 30 or so bad jokes are the worst of the 9,000 posts, a 99.3% comedy hit rate is pretty good. This kid will bring a fresh new talent to my 11pm whiskey. Welcome Trevor.
119
I too was impressed with his first appearance on the Daily Show and in fact rooted for them to choose him. But then I read the moronic misogynist and fat tweets, and lost my respect for him. No, it's not a matter of learning what "works" as the columnist implies, it's a matter of a person's attitude towards other human beings. Those tweets were the kind of empty minded cheap shots that you might hear in elementary school or from pandering comedians, not from the kind of perceptive social commentator I had, mistakenly apparently, believed him to be.
2
I agree. Remember Charlie Hebdo? Finding Trevor Noah's humor on Twitter offensive is similar to Muslim uproar at the satire in the French cartoons.
I think Trevor Noah is the new face of funny and and I wish him good luck in his new career.
I think Trevor Noah is the new face of funny and and I wish him good luck in his new career.
2
Thank you, Andree, for bringing up Charlie Hebdo. After the massacre, a great many people rushed to proclaim 'I am Charlie Hebdo!' without the faintest notion of what Charlie Hebdo is, or ever having seen an issue. It was just another bandwagon to jump on. (Hashtags have become medals which we pin on ourselves to assure ourselves of our own heroism - and rather cheap medals at that.) But Charlie Hebdo is an equal-opportunity offender whose satire makes Trevor Noah's tweets look decorous. So, the question must be asked of all those who rushed to defend Charlie Hebdo but decry Trevor Noah, the question becomes, are you a hypocrite, an ignoramus, or an idiot? (Not mutually exclusive options - you could be all the above and probably are.)
1
Guaranteeing 100% non-offensive comedy would freeze imagination and paralyze would be comics - If in the course of 9000( 9,000?) tweets , these are the worst that this young comedian has done, can't we give him a break? He's not earning a living based on demeaning people - as some have. How would most people appear if every thing they did or said was publicly dissected? We might not look like racists, but we'd look like jerks a good deal of the time.
The show will be different, for sure. I hope it retains the savvy political feel that Stewart had - and is not destined to become another late night anything-for-yuks time filler - but that's in the future.
The show will be different, for sure. I hope it retains the savvy political feel that Stewart had - and is not destined to become another late night anything-for-yuks time filler - but that's in the future.
30
Honestly, you comedians are your own weird breed. Some are brilliant. Some are cute or lucky. We'll see if he evolves or is just another cool cat with a smirk
It isn't just comedians. We all learn by trial and error. Sometimes you just have to do it wrong (maybe more than once) before you can get it right. Life is a learning experience.
I worry that the Internet culture of "reviewing" everything and everyone at every moment in time is overdeveloping our tendency towards being judgmental of others. Let's start cutting each other some slack.
I worry that the Internet culture of "reviewing" everything and everyone at every moment in time is overdeveloping our tendency towards being judgmental of others. Let's start cutting each other some slack.
40
Is that special pleading for comedians? Do comedians not observe, pronounce and judge?
I'm sad to see The Daily Show ending. And make no mistake, it IS ending. Jon Stewart wasn't just the host, he was the driving force behind the entire tone and content. I don't know who will do that now, but it looks like Trevor Noah's humor is far from the witty, savvy, yet humane humor that distinguished Stewart. It's more like the low brow stuff that dominates the other 23 hours of Comedy Central. I thought the Daily Show was the jewel in the crown of that channel, but I guess the powers that be just figured they had to fill another 30 minute slot with frat house humor. I'm baffled by their choice.
82
You do know that the Daily show has writers other than Stewart, right? No comic on earth can possibly produce four shows a week of skits and jokes on his own. Trevor isn't walking into the show with only his own schtick to prop him up, he'll work with whoever remains of the current team.
1
The Daily Show is over. The kid isn't funny, he can't parse current events, and Jon Stewart is a tough act to follow. They might as well cancel the show now, it won't last six months after Stewart leaves. The torch of political comedy will pass to John Oliver, a distant second.
2
Are you claiming that John Stewart was "high brow"? I find that idea baffling.
1
My father told me, while I was taking a high school Intro to Philosophy course, that while we want to callout the unjust, the criminal, the racist, etc. we must remember that per John Locke, our freedom ends at the tip of our nose. Beyond that, we are in human community and must support it as such, through a personal and mindful investment in cooperation. Freedom of Thought, Freedom to Criticize, Freedom to Opine are the tectonic plates of the democracies which so many countries around the world have cobbled together over time. Humor is an opportunistic pressure on the plates, shifting as a commodity sized by each culture's tolerance and anthropology. Humor is also the glue that holds us all together with modest hope for Good, for Commonality, for Peace. Here's for more humor! I still miss Rowan & Martin and The Smothers Brothers and Jonathan Winters...
21
If memory serves me correctly, didn't the Daily Show's John Oliver use the disgraced Congressman Anthony(Carlos Danger) Weiner's Tweets back in the summer of 2013 against him? Oliver ridiculed and humiliated him. Vaguely i remember Jon Stewart doing the same to other public figures over the past 5 years... They can dish it out but can't take it... I don't feel sorry for Noah and i hope he's replaced ASAP... please, we don''t need more hypocrisy especially from a faux news show.
17
Suppose I joke that Trevor Noah is getting married -- as soon as his fiancee completes reconstructive surgery on her jaw! Would Mr. Uppercut find that funny? He should have known that fiancee-beating is going to provoke a reaction other than chuckles. I question what goes on inside someone who gets a laugh out of that.
12
His jokes were trite, old, and ordinary. Masculine.
He's cute as a button, smart, and eager. We all need to learn.
He's cute as a button, smart, and eager. We all need to learn.
3
Some people can't take a joke these days and it's a crying shame! All those good old- timey jokes about black people and watermelon -- or about nooses -- no longer acceptable. Cartoons depicting Pres. Obama as a monkey get criticized -- when they're just political commentary. A few years ago Don Imus was pilloried only for calling black women basketball players nappy-headed ho's. So ludicrous!
The truth is, sadly, humor can be a powerful vehicle for hate -- not just "toying" and "exploration." The most vicious cartoons caricaturing African-Americans' facial features were published in the days of the KKK by people who were extreme racists, and it's no accident; the Nazis and other anti-Semites have similarly used cartoons exaggerating Jewish facial features...Now we have an African comedian who's part Jewish making at least one nasty joke portraying Jews as exploitative -- among the ugliest canards, and a traditional source of hate. Why did he do/does it?
One reason: to pander. Because in fact, there are many people who are not the least offended by these jokes. Who love them. And that's what we should be concerned with -- not the folks who object. I do think that if Noah's ugliest jokes were aimed at groups other than Jews and women, those people defending him now would be screaming, and he'd be the Donald Sterling of comedy. It's useful to bear in mind that when hate becomes acceptable, anyone can become a target.
The truth is, sadly, humor can be a powerful vehicle for hate -- not just "toying" and "exploration." The most vicious cartoons caricaturing African-Americans' facial features were published in the days of the KKK by people who were extreme racists, and it's no accident; the Nazis and other anti-Semites have similarly used cartoons exaggerating Jewish facial features...Now we have an African comedian who's part Jewish making at least one nasty joke portraying Jews as exploitative -- among the ugliest canards, and a traditional source of hate. Why did he do/does it?
One reason: to pander. Because in fact, there are many people who are not the least offended by these jokes. Who love them. And that's what we should be concerned with -- not the folks who object. I do think that if Noah's ugliest jokes were aimed at groups other than Jews and women, those people defending him now would be screaming, and he'd be the Donald Sterling of comedy. It's useful to bear in mind that when hate becomes acceptable, anyone can become a target.
65
Mr. Noah should feel no less free to similarly "joke" about himself.
This guy has a recent (great-grandparent or later) Jewish ancestry? If that's so, this is extra sad...
Twitter is the least of Trevor Noah's problems. His biggest problem will be that people will tend to compare him to the current Jon Stewart instead of the young 30 something Jon Stewart when he first started on the Daily Show. It took quite awhile for the Jon Stewart we know now to evolve. Heck, it took me several years after he was on the air before I even started watching. I hope people will allow Trevor Noah a few years to evolve into his Daily Show role. He appears to me (on You Tube) to be someone with amazing potential. I hope we all get to see what he can actually do.
42
He is anti-Semetic and a mysogynist. The Comedy Channel needs to cut their losses quickly.
43
So quick to declare failure. The Channel, on the other hand, understands that it took 16 years for Jon Stewart to become Jon Stewart, with the support of everyone who made it happen.
Let's see what Noah does with some really good writers.
Let's see what Noah does with some really good writers.
Maybe it's because I'm getting older....but I find today's social media culture extremely sensitive and hyper-judgmental. For crying out loud, people can't even say anything remotely unflattering about Beyonce lest the "beyhive" sting 'em! I think the real issue is the "democratization" process Mr. Barnum mentions--the sense of "regular folks" opining on other people's lives' and words and then cloaking their judgment with authority. Get a grip and a life people--it's not that serous!
33
Since I'm gay, I always thought it was okay if I used the word "faggot" as a term of affection when referring to my gay friends. They weren’t offended and it was an “inside” way of referring to ourselves that fought the stigma of the word when straight people shouted that.
Then, Don Imus and the "nappy haired hoe's" imbroglio. The women called themselves that, but when Imus did, it set off a firestorm.
What I learned from that incident was that by using "faggot" so casually, I was giving other people permission to use it as well. I cleaned up my act right away.
Then, Don Imus and the "nappy haired hoe's" imbroglio. The women called themselves that, but when Imus did, it set off a firestorm.
What I learned from that incident was that by using "faggot" so casually, I was giving other people permission to use it as well. I cleaned up my act right away.
37
There is simply no excuse for racist, misogynistic and anti-semetic attempts at "humor"!!!
14
@Mike
The brilliant and largely PG-rated Jim Gaffigan mostly jokes about food. Should we assume that McDonald's and Hot Pockets are acceptable targets for ridicule? Or should we put food on the protected list, because some people just love it to death?
Is there any place for humor in society? Or have we become so sensitive to affront that we cannot decide for ourselves when someone has made a dumb gaff?
I think that humor is a very elevated form of communication that draws on the intelligence and sense of irony that the deliverer of the joke is able to tease out of ordinary life. If we are going to try to fence off all public humor, rather than allowing the receivers of humor to make their own decisions about its appropriateness, we are going to have our hands full.
Very few people are humor-free. And those who are are rarely fun.
The brilliant and largely PG-rated Jim Gaffigan mostly jokes about food. Should we assume that McDonald's and Hot Pockets are acceptable targets for ridicule? Or should we put food on the protected list, because some people just love it to death?
Is there any place for humor in society? Or have we become so sensitive to affront that we cannot decide for ourselves when someone has made a dumb gaff?
I think that humor is a very elevated form of communication that draws on the intelligence and sense of irony that the deliverer of the joke is able to tease out of ordinary life. If we are going to try to fence off all public humor, rather than allowing the receivers of humor to make their own decisions about its appropriateness, we are going to have our hands full.
Very few people are humor-free. And those who are are rarely fun.
Let's give the guy a break. We need him to get us through the 2016 Presidential election!
3
He's not going to 'get us through' the election. We've been abandoned by those who used to speak truth to power.
2
"The glory of Twitter is that it’s unmediated and direct, but the absence of gatekeepers also means that everyone is free to put their worst work up as easily as their best."
Not exactly. The Terms of Service say this: "We reserve the right at all times (but will not have an obligation) to remove or refuse to distribute any Content on the Services, to suspend or terminate users, and to reclaim usernames without liability to you."
https://twitter.com/tos
Not exactly. The Terms of Service say this: "We reserve the right at all times (but will not have an obligation) to remove or refuse to distribute any Content on the Services, to suspend or terminate users, and to reclaim usernames without liability to you."
https://twitter.com/tos
4
Do you know why Guy Branum didn't include the tweets? Because they are almost impossible to defend. Forget the anti-semitism and racism let's just focus on the misogyny.
On Women --
Originally when men proposed they went down on one knee so if the woman said no they were in the perfect uppercut position.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) December 20, 2012
In Thailand hookers are so cheap, even cheaper than food. Tough choice between Big Mac or Quarter Poundher Deluxe.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) January 5, 2011
Ray J hit it first but Kanye hit it properly.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) June 21, 2013
-- Twitter isn't a training ground for comedians. It's a place where people show who they are.
The best comedians have a giving full heart contrasted with a shrewd sense of humor. Which the daily show has been cultivating for 16 years -- Steve Carell - John Oliver -- Kristen Schaal, -- John Hodgman -- Wyatt Cenac -- Stephen Colbert -- Rob Corddry - Josh Gad -- Ed Helms -- Olivia Munn -- Rob Riggle --
Can you imagine any of those alums making misogynistic jokes like that on twitter, an open mic or even on line in starbucks?? I can't.
Who cares if he can speak 6 languages, do great accents and is photogenic?! If deep down his world view is narrow, at times heartless with a hint of bigotry in it -- why would he be deserving of a show as esteemed in our culture and in some cases the world as the Daily Show?
On Women --
Originally when men proposed they went down on one knee so if the woman said no they were in the perfect uppercut position.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) December 20, 2012
In Thailand hookers are so cheap, even cheaper than food. Tough choice between Big Mac or Quarter Poundher Deluxe.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) January 5, 2011
Ray J hit it first but Kanye hit it properly.
— Trevor Noah (@Trevornoah) June 21, 2013
-- Twitter isn't a training ground for comedians. It's a place where people show who they are.
The best comedians have a giving full heart contrasted with a shrewd sense of humor. Which the daily show has been cultivating for 16 years -- Steve Carell - John Oliver -- Kristen Schaal, -- John Hodgman -- Wyatt Cenac -- Stephen Colbert -- Rob Corddry - Josh Gad -- Ed Helms -- Olivia Munn -- Rob Riggle --
Can you imagine any of those alums making misogynistic jokes like that on twitter, an open mic or even on line in starbucks?? I can't.
Who cares if he can speak 6 languages, do great accents and is photogenic?! If deep down his world view is narrow, at times heartless with a hint of bigotry in it -- why would he be deserving of a show as esteemed in our culture and in some cases the world as the Daily Show?
96
@David M
The Daily Show is "esteemed" by whom? Are you kidding? The entire post was thoughtful and full of insight, followed by an unraveling point of logic that simply underscores that certain "humor" is branded as acceptable while other humor is not.
Please stick with your original points. But calling The Daily Show anything other than another brand of put-down comedy is probably not where I would have wrapped up my argument.
The Daily Show is "esteemed" by whom? Are you kidding? The entire post was thoughtful and full of insight, followed by an unraveling point of logic that simply underscores that certain "humor" is branded as acceptable while other humor is not.
Please stick with your original points. But calling The Daily Show anything other than another brand of put-down comedy is probably not where I would have wrapped up my argument.
2
Odd that you'd include Oliva Munn on that list. You may want to look back at her work on G4's Attack of the Show.
That goes to this point. Yes I can imagine all of them doing work just like this for the cheap and easy early laugh. I think of the jokes that I used to learn how to make people laugh when I was younger and they did nothing but play on easy tropes and low hanging fruit (see ma, no lynching or homophobic joke now a days).
It takes time to mature and find a voice. And the person who made those tweets isn't who Mr. Noah is today.
That goes to this point. Yes I can imagine all of them doing work just like this for the cheap and easy early laugh. I think of the jokes that I used to learn how to make people laugh when I was younger and they did nothing but play on easy tropes and low hanging fruit (see ma, no lynching or homophobic joke now a days).
It takes time to mature and find a voice. And the person who made those tweets isn't who Mr. Noah is today.
If you think tweets can "show who you are" that too is a very narrow view. I say let's give him a chance; he's still a young man.
His jokes are antisemitic, misogynistic, and fat phobic. They are painful relics of another, happily outgrown era. They are not funny.
He should be replaced as host of "The Daily Show" by someone with a more nuanced sense of contemporary comic culture.
He should be replaced as host of "The Daily Show" by someone with a more nuanced sense of contemporary comic culture.
63
The Twitter jokes being circulated were a source of wonderment to me because they weren't even funny. They were pitifully lame.
Fat women are inherently funny? Holocaust jokes are inherently funny? Observing that a guy can't expect to "ride" the most beautiful women is inherently funny?
Not really - not to grown-ups. Okay, maybe they would be funny to a 12-year-old trying for imagined edginess.
"Good stand-up comedy cannot be safe; it must shock or surprise an audience."
Well, "surprise" goes without saying because any effective joke contains a surprise in the form of a punch line.
This leaves "shock" as an essential element of humor. To which I say: Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
Fat women are inherently funny? Holocaust jokes are inherently funny? Observing that a guy can't expect to "ride" the most beautiful women is inherently funny?
Not really - not to grown-ups. Okay, maybe they would be funny to a 12-year-old trying for imagined edginess.
"Good stand-up comedy cannot be safe; it must shock or surprise an audience."
Well, "surprise" goes without saying because any effective joke contains a surprise in the form of a punch line.
This leaves "shock" as an essential element of humor. To which I say: Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
39
If he had said, "Mohammad is a pedophile" we'd all be wearing "Je Suis Trevor" buttons.
14
But the point is Mohammad was not someone who was trod upon, he was the guy making the rules for trodding upon others, and much much more. So as a person in authority he is a ripe target for humor. Someone who is getting beat up in life does not need some more kicking by a comedian. At least that seems to be the point here.
1
A tweet joke is a different medium than stand-up. No voice inflection, no sarcastic tone. No laughter. One SEES the offensive words stacked up. It becomes something seemingly more planned because it's written and posted. There is a difference.
If comedians are using Twitter as their studio of experimentation they should acknowledge that the tweet post is a whole different art form. Not at all like the coffee shop failures of yesteryear.
Part of the art is knowing your tweets will be around long after delivery.
If comedians are using Twitter as their studio of experimentation they should acknowledge that the tweet post is a whole different art form. Not at all like the coffee shop failures of yesteryear.
Part of the art is knowing your tweets will be around long after delivery.
11
I consider his comments on Jews and women not funny in any context and consider his other comments to be racist. I've watched Jon Stewart for almost 10 year on the Daily Show but won't be able to bring myself to watch someone who enjoys ridiculing minorities.
48
" Peut-on rire de tout ? Peut-on rire avec tout le monde ? "
Can we joke about everything ? Can we joke with everyone ?
Pierre Desproges
In a totally different setting - the roast of Jean Marie Lepen on French TV - but relevant in this context: should comedians, or satirists be mindful of the level at which jokes taken.
I would hope not.
Can we joke about everything ? Can we joke with everyone ?
Pierre Desproges
In a totally different setting - the roast of Jean Marie Lepen on French TV - but relevant in this context: should comedians, or satirists be mindful of the level at which jokes taken.
I would hope not.
1
It is what is at the heart of the problem/issue/thing about digital. What one would say loses all meaning, context and tone when written on the cold screen. Just the proper inflection or change in tone or emphasis when one speaks can make a lame joke on the page something that is, when heard, laugh out loud funny.
Note to all you comedians: don't write your jokes on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter unless you are able to write complete thoughts, beginning, middle and end....and that it, standing alone, makes me smile. I can't infer your tone, etc. Otherwise, you are quite liable to end up looking foolish and, worse, not funny.
Note to all you comedians: don't write your jokes on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter unless you are able to write complete thoughts, beginning, middle and end....and that it, standing alone, makes me smile. I can't infer your tone, etc. Otherwise, you are quite liable to end up looking foolish and, worse, not funny.
1
Mr. Noah has defended himself by saying that not all of his jokes succeeded.
Indeed, they did not. Which accounts for why he will fail to fill Mr. Stewart's shoes - to do so, one needs to be genuinely funny.
Poking fun at America will be decidedly difficult for him - the USA falls into the category of the 20 or so countries in the world where life is worth living and can be funny - Canada, Australia, Denmark, etc.
Mr. Stewart could get away with not poking fun at the other 180 countries who are genuinely worthy of ridicule. In part, going back to the first point - he was genuinely funny and clever. And in part, he was given a "pass" since he was an insider and could poke fun at those within his own tent.
Whether he likes it or not, Mr. Noah will find it difficult, as an outsider, to focus only on the events in the USA and to ridicule those elements. Sooner or later, Mr. Stewart would have been called to account for his lightweight treatment of harsh countries in the world. For Mr. Noah, regrettably for him, it will be sooner, not later. Especially since he is not particularly funny.
And that, apart from the other considerations, will be the litmus test - to anchor a show on the "Comedy" Network, being funny is the most important consideration. A lame start does not help.
Indeed, they did not. Which accounts for why he will fail to fill Mr. Stewart's shoes - to do so, one needs to be genuinely funny.
Poking fun at America will be decidedly difficult for him - the USA falls into the category of the 20 or so countries in the world where life is worth living and can be funny - Canada, Australia, Denmark, etc.
Mr. Stewart could get away with not poking fun at the other 180 countries who are genuinely worthy of ridicule. In part, going back to the first point - he was genuinely funny and clever. And in part, he was given a "pass" since he was an insider and could poke fun at those within his own tent.
Whether he likes it or not, Mr. Noah will find it difficult, as an outsider, to focus only on the events in the USA and to ridicule those elements. Sooner or later, Mr. Stewart would have been called to account for his lightweight treatment of harsh countries in the world. For Mr. Noah, regrettably for him, it will be sooner, not later. Especially since he is not particularly funny.
And that, apart from the other considerations, will be the litmus test - to anchor a show on the "Comedy" Network, being funny is the most important consideration. A lame start does not help.
5
Comics used to be able to test and refine their routines in low-profile (or no-profile) clubs. I'm sure Leno, Letterman, and anybody else who's been around for awhile has jokes in their past that, like Mr. Branum, they're glad they don't use anymore.
1
As the kids say, "epic fail". The Daily Show is a unique wrapping around a unique contemporary dark humor talent to which this fellow cannot hold the dimmest candle. My free advice to the braintrust at Comedy Central: Retire the Daily Show and build something new (Noah's Sinking Arc?) around this fellow if you really want to hire him.
8
The last line is a great summation of everything we do in life as imperfect creatures. Yes, we'll make mistakes... but are we getting better?
Mr. Noah appears to be getting much better. And isn't that the arc we all strive for?
Mr. Noah appears to be getting much better. And isn't that the arc we all strive for?
7
Two words for Comedy Central and Trevor Noah: Piers. Morgan.
11
The Daily Show viewers expect insightful, clever, commentary told with humor. We are not looking for jokes. Mr. Noah has is not insightful, clever, humorus or even funny.
14
If comedy is his business, he should be more cautious about what he posts, just as a politician or a banker or a policeman needs to filter their social media commentary to avoid controversy or finger pointing. those same common sense rules should apply here.
Want to try out some new material? Jump on a mike at an Comedy Club at the 5pm show. Otherwise have your handler ( or your mom) moderate your posts.
Want to try out some new material? Jump on a mike at an Comedy Club at the 5pm show. Otherwise have your handler ( or your mom) moderate your posts.
1
If you have not been offended by comedy, you have never enjoyed the work of Lenny Bruce, Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, Chris Rock, Seth MacFarlane, Redd Foxx - the list goes on and on. You don't watch "South Park" or "The Simpsons." You didn't watch "All in the Family." Sure, there''s G-rated family comedy and I love that, too (bring on "Green Acres!"). But at its best, comedy tests the limits and breaks barriers. It makes you question your stereotypes and assumptions. And sometimes it hurts.
If Trevor Noah isn't funny, boo him off the stage. But if he "offends" you - get over it.
If Trevor Noah isn't funny, boo him off the stage. But if he "offends" you - get over it.
8
His problem is that his tweets aren't intelligent or funny. Not easy replacing Jon Stewart.
13
The scandal is that his jokes are L-A-M-E. He has a juvenile and boring sense of humor. I am not in the lease offended by him. He just sounds like a self-satisfied a-hole that leaves the bar with the pretty girls. Nothing that anyone whose ever gone out on a Friday night anywhere doesn't see at least a few times. That this warrants him becoming Daily Show host is another sign that everyone has left the building and real Daily Show fans are over at Last Week Tonight. While it looks like CC has turned the Daily Show over to a new Craig Kilborn.
11
I'm sorry, but if you choose to use Twitter to test offensive material, you deserve what you get. That's what the comedy club is for.
7
When I was senior in high school, our drama teacher took us to a ski resort where amputees both learned and instructed. We sang songs and did skits, with one near the end of a "bad magician" who did completely obvious tricks, one being to make one leg "disappear" behind a table cloth as he balanced on the other. At the climax, the Ta-dah moment, the room was completely silent for a good three or four very long seconds, whereupon one of the audience threw his prosthetic onto the stage, saying, "I found it!" with just the right amount of wonder and surprise. Thirty or so kids and amputees laughed as hard as you can laugh, ending the show and beginning an evening of story telling and education unlike anything we could have had in a classroom. We learned so many important things, and the stimulus was compassion for someone who wanted only to bring laughter and failed, until the audience "threw in" and joined the fun. It seems the essence of maturity is to not take oneself too seriously, give others the benefit of the doubt, and be willing to overlook a "fail" now and then in others. Not so much maturity displayed on twitter by these standards, but Jimmy Fallons' Mean Tweets series seems like a good start.
5
Hm. You prodded a memory. I had anorexia nervosa in 1973 . (I have often joked that our family had everything, homosexuality, anorexia, autism, just before they were fashionable. Two years later anorexia was a Newsweek cover, but at the time it was an exotic mystery.) In the early 1980s, a short-lived situation comedy (which really needs to be on DVD), The Powers That Be, spoofed the Reagan family. One hilarious dinner scene involved the anorexic daughter (Valerie Mahaffey, married to a congressman, David Hyde Pierce) spiting her iron mother (Holland Taylor) by building a 'Close Encounters' mountain of mashed potatoes she wouldn't eat. After that aired, several friends hastened to reassure me how tasteless and offensive they found the anorexia jokes. 'I thought it was great,' I said. 'Laughed myself sick. Don't be more sensitive on my behalf than I am on my own - I'm fine, thank you, not some emotional basket case.'
Just remembering Mahaffey brings a smile, even now ...;}
Just remembering Mahaffey brings a smile, even now ...;}
Thanks to reasoned arguments such as this one, I think we're starting to move beyond the era where every online utterance is treated as a policy statement. People do dumb things, they always have, and we need to evolve our social norms so that people can be forgiven for online behavior that is occasionally stupid, inconsiderate, thoughtless, and harmful.
I'm so glad that I also grew up before the online-every-mistake-is-etched-in-stone era, and I hope this is just a passing moment towards one where people can be accepted, once again, for being human.
I'm so glad that I also grew up before the online-every-mistake-is-etched-in-stone era, and I hope this is just a passing moment towards one where people can be accepted, once again, for being human.
5
Jon Stewart is funny. He breaks boundaries. He doesn't, however, just blurt out whatever inane thing pops into his head. We need another like him.
10
Here's a basic problem. This guy just isn't very funny. Jon Stewart is not an omniscient deity when it comes to picking comic talent. Go figure.
6
Twitter seems like a lazy way to test out a joke, especially if the comedian is looking to strike a nerve. Without the tone, timing, and cadence of the live experience, the odds are against a provacative joke landing over a electronic medium. The very idea sounds like a comedy shortcut that deserves to fail.
2
Just last week I was trying to explain to a young friend why I will never, ever have a Twitter account. Every single one of us says something stupid from time to time. Why anyone wants to record it for posterity is beyond me.
10
Twitter is a great place to discover the latest on everything from Lucky Charms to Litigation. If you can resist the impulse to babble what you think it's a great medium. The problem is, in a world full of poorly parented narcissistic children almost no one can resist the urge to make a grab for their 15 minutes of shame.
I guess it's generally acceptable to make sexist and racist jokes as long as your are part of that sex and race.
3
Does anyone think that Jon Stewart, if he had had the opportunity to tweet before he became host of the Daily Show, would have inserted non sequitor comments about fat chicks every chance he got? ....if that was the way Mr. Stewart saw the world, if hot chicks and fat chicks were the two frames through which he viewed women, I would not have been a fan of his show.
14
This is rather surprising, given the recent NYT articles about people who lost their jobs because of a bad joke and a tweet about AIDS. I forgot already the name of the young woman who lost her PR job because of her joking tweet about AIDS in South Africa.
I am not saying one person is right and the other is wrong. I find many comedian jokes in poor taste, frankly. I also think the PR person was immature and wrong to joke about AIDS - no matter the context. However, I do wonder how one person can get away with a questionable tweet while the other pays a steep price.
I don't know if Mr. Noah should lose his job over old tweets. Thousands of tweets, even over six years seems excessive - Tweeting seems like a monumental waste of time, anyway, but maybe some people get something out of it. I just think people ought to be a little more careful about what they joke about, especially on social media. Some subjects just don't seem like appropriate comedy material, no matter how you slice it.
I am not saying one person is right and the other is wrong. I find many comedian jokes in poor taste, frankly. I also think the PR person was immature and wrong to joke about AIDS - no matter the context. However, I do wonder how one person can get away with a questionable tweet while the other pays a steep price.
I don't know if Mr. Noah should lose his job over old tweets. Thousands of tweets, even over six years seems excessive - Tweeting seems like a monumental waste of time, anyway, but maybe some people get something out of it. I just think people ought to be a little more careful about what they joke about, especially on social media. Some subjects just don't seem like appropriate comedy material, no matter how you slice it.
4
She was white, and not South African. As is so often the case, different rules apply to different people.
1
Yes, agreed, aspiring comedians must have the freedom to find a voice, even if their experimentation unintentionally produces cheap shots at marginalized groups. That’s just part of the process. Such errors should not be a barrier to pursuing a career in comedy. Hosting the Daily Show, however, is not just another gig; it is the summit of summits, the Everest that few ever reach to find themselves on the highest peak of the comedy world. Thanks to Jon Stewart’s integrity and humanity, which champions the underdog and excoriates the bully, the Daily Show’s appeal rests on the assumption that the show’s entire cast embraces the core values that Jon Stewart extols each night. Since hypocrisy is one of the show’s main targets, the show’s host seat is no place for someone whose career path is spotted with jokes that only bullies would laugh at.
4
Nice apologia. The man you are defending is not simply a novice comic but someone about to occupy the high seat of satirical comment in the United States. May he prove worthy of your spirited defense, but things aren't looking too good so far.
10
They were jokes. Give the guy a break. If he or you have to filter his humor to the degree you suggest, then comedy is dead.
6
Nobody could ever possibly be funny who takes a hackneyed cliche' like "white, straight, male power dynamic" seriously.
2
His "jokes" weren't just about Jews they were about Israel also. Too many to be jokes... rather what Trevor Noah believes. I wasn't sure if I would continue to watch, now I know.
7
I want him to do lots of "all black men are criminals" jokes. Or similar stereotypes. Let's see how hilarious and well-received these jokes are with his audience.
Of course, under the guise of comedy it's always open season on Jewish folks.
Of course, under the guise of comedy it's always open season on Jewish folks.
19
"People found a handful of mediocre jokes with hack premises about women, Jews and fat people, and questioned the appropriateness of Mr. Noah's selection." Questioned the appropriateness of his selection? Are you kidding? What I question is whether he's anti-Semitic, misogynistic and more. I'm not watching him.
11
This reminds me of the lesson I relearned as an adult while trying to rollerblade in NYC. No bad move (out of very many) went without vicious appraisal from passers-by of all ages. I was humbly reminded of that thing we know so well as children: We fall down, we get back up. Hang in there Trevor Noah, it comes with the territory.
1
Comedy is absolutely a dangerous business. I am not a standup comic but I play virtual reality games online (like Second Life) where I am always basically trying to be funny. This often has the effect of outraging people who don't "get" what I am trying to do.
The problem is, it takes great skill to do comedy right, and an aspiring comic has to be given space to be "edgy", because the dangerous material is often the most interesting. Great comics like Joan Rivers had the guts to offend practically everyone, but she succeeded with that material because she was a genius....and a very hard worker.
I look forward to Trevor Noah's efforts at the helm of the Daily Show. He has an awfully tough act to follow.
The problem is, it takes great skill to do comedy right, and an aspiring comic has to be given space to be "edgy", because the dangerous material is often the most interesting. Great comics like Joan Rivers had the guts to offend practically everyone, but she succeeded with that material because she was a genius....and a very hard worker.
I look forward to Trevor Noah's efforts at the helm of the Daily Show. He has an awfully tough act to follow.
1
Actually the most offensive thing about these tweets is that they just aren't funny. But he does have over 2 million followers so I guess that's why the powers that be at Comedy Central chose him.
6
Jon getting out just in time.... when did we start holding court jesters to a higher standard than politicians?
We are evolving as a society; and comedy evolves with us.
It's all based on the pratfall, really.
We are evolving as a society; and comedy evolves with us.
It's all based on the pratfall, really.
22
It's my impression that what a Comedian SAYS may or may not have anything to do with what s/he BELIEVES.
What is SAID is what the Comedian has noticed has caused a MIXED REACTION by Audiences. This then brings up a Topic that ought to be brought out into the open and investigated. Don't shoot the Messenger.
What is SAID is what the Comedian has noticed has caused a MIXED REACTION by Audiences. This then brings up a Topic that ought to be brought out into the open and investigated. Don't shoot the Messenger.
24
@JPG
You may be interested in rooting out every negative thought that every person "believes". And that seems to be the unique province from which "liberal" minded people appraise the world.
I believe that what people "believe" is their own business. And I am not interested in following "liberal" minded fellow citizens on a witch hunt to make every fellow human being confirm to their play book of correct thinking and acting.
Yesterday, NPR did another segment on Augusta National, the host club for the Masters golf tournament; and it focused on the relatively recent (1990) admission of Blacks and women (2012). As most liberals would say: "I can do whatever I want as long as no one else is harmed by it." Really? I certainly have never been "harmed" by the choices of the Augusta National Club, and I would probably be just as happily unaware if the media did not camp out a their entrance every spring hoping to sniff out a nugget of "inappropriate thinking".
When someone tells me how they will be ridding the world of wrong "thoughts", my first follow-up question will always be: "Based on what worldview do you make that assessment?" And my non-negotiable position is that people deserve to have their expressed or unspoken opinions elevate or tear down their reputation. They do not need self-appointed tastemakers or media stars to rate their inner lives.
When Miley Cyrus and Ashton Kucher and their ilk are speaking, I have already plugged my proverbial ears.
You may be interested in rooting out every negative thought that every person "believes". And that seems to be the unique province from which "liberal" minded people appraise the world.
I believe that what people "believe" is their own business. And I am not interested in following "liberal" minded fellow citizens on a witch hunt to make every fellow human being confirm to their play book of correct thinking and acting.
Yesterday, NPR did another segment on Augusta National, the host club for the Masters golf tournament; and it focused on the relatively recent (1990) admission of Blacks and women (2012). As most liberals would say: "I can do whatever I want as long as no one else is harmed by it." Really? I certainly have never been "harmed" by the choices of the Augusta National Club, and I would probably be just as happily unaware if the media did not camp out a their entrance every spring hoping to sniff out a nugget of "inappropriate thinking".
When someone tells me how they will be ridding the world of wrong "thoughts", my first follow-up question will always be: "Based on what worldview do you make that assessment?" And my non-negotiable position is that people deserve to have their expressed or unspoken opinions elevate or tear down their reputation. They do not need self-appointed tastemakers or media stars to rate their inner lives.
When Miley Cyrus and Ashton Kucher and their ilk are speaking, I have already plugged my proverbial ears.
1
Not sure I understand your meaning. It SOUNDS like you're justifying this comedian's hateful jokes as the truth about women and Jews and defending him as just being a messenger of said truths. Hopefully I'm wrong.
1
Let's be clear. The news is reporting that he made racist and anti-Semitic jokes. He did not.
His jokes were sometimes offensive, but they were not racist and anti-Semitic.
His jokes were sometimes offensive, but they were not racist and anti-Semitic.
145
They were definitely sexist and misogynist.
5
"Behind every successful Rap Billionaire is a double as rich Jewish man." This statement plays into two racist stereotypes. 1) Jews control the media and 2) all Jews care about is money.
6
He does most certainly have a misogynist mindset.
6