Why do we try to help these people? Because of thinking like this, there will never be an end to war in the middle east. These people are intent on killing each other. They have been for hundreds of years. Let the extremists take over the country, give the decent folks a chance to get out, then flatten the area with every war plane we have.
1
Why are we doing this? What earthly good are we doing in Iraq or in Yemen? I thought Obama was going to keep us out of the Middle East? This is insanity. Leave the Middle Eastern people to resolve their own borders and governments. Ever since the Sykes-Picot agreement, this region has been in turmoil and rightly so. The Europeans created this mess, particularly the British. Later America took the helm, being wholly responsible for the disastrous condition of the Middle East today. Get out!
The recent US - Gulf States bombing raids can only be described as the most glaring stupidity, intended to escalate the differences between Sunnis and Shias. Who will benefit?
This is a problem that has in fact been created. America's, we need to pay attention to our resolves and not abandon these area's as we have over the past few years. All of this could have been avoided if we stuck to the plan and our allies. If you feel this is in fact wrong, I am sorry for that, but we have created an issue where we are trying to support the 2 sides. Ironically it also shows the two faces of our current leaders. We know from history and the past, when you eject too quickly from a conflict there is bound to be a melt down. Here it is.....
About 60% of Iraqis are Shia Muslim Arabs who share deep sectarian ties with the neighboring Shia Muslim Iranian Persian majority. While the Sunni Muslim Arab Iraqi minority of 15% are tied to the Sunni Muslim Arab majorities in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states (except Bahrain), Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
We should pull out completely and let them fight each other. This is not our war. It should be fought by Egypt; Jordan; Saudi Arabia; Turkey and UAE, not the US. What interests do we have there other than protecting American oil company assets? Surely, we have an interest in Israel's security but we provide Israel with all of the resources it needs to defend itself.
2
first off, this is a civil war, why are the americans doing anything there, i say pull all our troops out and send them to israel to help defend them and watch from the sidelines. however iran should also butt out of the fray as well. what are our interests in the middle east? explain that to me and then it may change my opinion on the matter.
In a number of recent articles commenters have advocated dumping our ally Israel and joining with Iran and the malitias they control. Hows that going now?
1
We need to clear out of the Middle East completely. Our endless wars there have cost thousands of American lives, crippled tens of thousands of other Americans, and wasted trillions of dollars? For what? For a continuation of the perpetual turmoil that has gone on in the area since Biblical times. We have been bled white of lives and treasure and done nothing but create more turmoil and continued violence by our interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can no longer afford to be the world's policeman or Israel's mercenary----this has to stop now and permanently. Let the Europeans intervene if outside force is necessary to curb or defeat "Islamic extremists". They get much of their oil and gas from the region and are being flooded with "refugees" fleeing all these civil wars in the Levant. China, India, and Japan, the "Big Three" of Asia, also get large amounts of oil and gas from the region and also have large markets there for their products. They also all have huge armies, navies and air forces. Let them go in and separate the warring parties and keep the oil and gas flowing and the shipping lanes open. Enough is enough. America needs to look after our own affairs----secure our borders, bring the jobs and factories back home, drastically curb immigration, balance our national budget, rebuild our infrastructure and provide jobs and services for our own citizens. Our government needs to concentrate on our domestic needs and quit meddling in other nations' affairs. Peace!
2
Is this the end of President Obama's fantasy of forging an alliance with Iran to fight ISIL?
It's clear that Iran has no intention of providing Iranian-led ground troops to Obama's effort to "degrade and destroy" the Islamic State.
The President's plan for a grand strategic realignment in the Mideast (with Iran somehow a U.S. partner) looks more delusional with each passing day.
Does anyone still remember what the Mideast looked like in January 2009 when President Obama took office?
It's clear that Iran has no intention of providing Iranian-led ground troops to Obama's effort to "degrade and destroy" the Islamic State.
The President's plan for a grand strategic realignment in the Mideast (with Iran somehow a U.S. partner) looks more delusional with each passing day.
Does anyone still remember what the Mideast looked like in January 2009 when President Obama took office?
What's happening in the wider Middle East - from Iran to Syria to Iraq to Yemen, just to name a few countries - cannot be described as the"fog" of war. It's the deep deep muddy murk.
Why should the US spend trillions more dollars?
When even a relatively knowledgeable student of the Middle East like myself needs to make marginal notes in the newspaper to follow one news story it's long past time for us to stop spending our resources - human, material, and financial. We have needs at home that need our serious attention.
Why should the US spend trillions more dollars?
When even a relatively knowledgeable student of the Middle East like myself needs to make marginal notes in the newspaper to follow one news story it's long past time for us to stop spending our resources - human, material, and financial. We have needs at home that need our serious attention.
2
The Shiite Iraqis have pulled out of the battle because of American Airstrikes ? That's like a child blaming his neuroses on his Parents. The truth be known, they are angry that American troops aren't dying along side of them. Once again, they have shown their cowardice by running from the battle.Obama just can't get it right.
2
the shiite troops Rejected because US-led Coalition airstrikes them
Maybe it is just this:
“We don’t trust the American-led coalition in combating ISIS,” said Naeem al-Uboudi, the spokesman for Asaib Ahl al-Haq, one of the three groups which said it would withdraw from the front line around Tikrit. “In the past, they have targeted our security forces and dropped aid to ISIS by mistake,” he said."
“We don’t trust the American-led coalition in combating ISIS,” said Naeem al-Uboudi, the spokesman for Asaib Ahl al-Haq, one of the three groups which said it would withdraw from the front line around Tikrit. “In the past, they have targeted our security forces and dropped aid to ISIS by mistake,” he said."
Baloney, they fled because they did not have the will to stand & fight, & blamed on their allies, the United States.
1
If certain Iranian-bdacked shiite militias openly declare their opposition to the U.S.-led airstrikes, perhaps they should be targeted along woth ISIS.
3
The Middle East is composed of factions and tribes, not true states or nations. There will always be some faction or tribe that takes great offense to any American action, no matter how benign or altruistic our intentions might be. The sooner America frees itself from any oil dependency from that region, the quicker we can exit and leave the region to itself.
2
The Shiite militias are clearly dying in droves in Tikrit, now with the US getting involve they have an excuse to save their rear end with their pride(or whatever that is left of it) in tact.
2
What will give us as a nation the courage and integrity to immediately abandon our fool's game and pull out of the Middle East? Yes, we have done irreparable damage to the region and have exhibited some of the worst leadership ever witnessed on Earth, but we are just making a bad situation worse. It's as if our geo-political strategists were mentored by the Somali Pirates. We are gaining nothing and helping no one. How do we as a nation 'come to our senses'?
6
Americans do not, as a whole, understand tribalism. There is never an end to these "wars." I should like to hear one reasonable explanation for US military activity in the middle east. Some say that bombing Tikrit will make us safe in the west. Applying logic to conceivable outcomes together with recent lessons in history would imply that this thinking is absurd. However, we are keeping the oil companies and the rest of the 0.01% happy and the money flowing into the government office buildings in DC. So hang in there Mr O you are making perfect sense. After all, the US government could not survive without the input from the plutocrats.
2
We're anti-Sunni ISIS in Iraq but for them in Yemen, blew up Iraq doubly as soon as Bremer fired the Bathists who were then under Shiite thumb getting angrier, and we expect these militias to just be shocked and awed by our fabulousness coming in as Superman and trust us.
Hello MIC. You're transparent. We can see how hopeless and ridiculous this is. So stop it. And stop giving yourself billions to do more of it every year.
We need a revolution here to stop the insanity.
Has everybody seen enough yet of the world/Middle East in flames to try for peace, to shout down the MIC??
Hello MIC. You're transparent. We can see how hopeless and ridiculous this is. So stop it. And stop giving yourself billions to do more of it every year.
We need a revolution here to stop the insanity.
Has everybody seen enough yet of the world/Middle East in flames to try for peace, to shout down the MIC??
2
Indeed, let's let them have their way with one another. US out of Iraq for good, we've done enough harm, let the Shia and Sunni figure it out without us. God bless them...or the other benediction,
BTW, what's with the abstract art in the photo? Can't do the Prophet, but can get all Kandinsky on us? Cool.
BTW, what's with the abstract art in the photo? Can't do the Prophet, but can get all Kandinsky on us? Cool.
3
Can you blame the Shia? They're doing their level best to work with the U.S. and Iran is doing their best to negotiate a deal giving up weapons they have a sovereign right to produce. Then, we help bomb the Houthis in Yemen when there is no pressing reason to bomb and no real threat against Saudi Arabia or any allies.
If the Shia in Yemen were foreign fighters or a small, well-armed minority in Yemen, perhaps it would make more sense. But, the Shia are half the population of Yemen, the oppressed half. Where is the moral and legal legitimacy to bomb half Yemen's population to install another Saudi puppet?
If we're serious about fighting ISIS and AQ (both Sunni extremists), and we believe our reputation is an asset (I'm doubting that), then we need to have an adult conversation with Saudi Arabia and TELL them how things will be in the middle east when it involves the prestige of the United States.
The same goes for Israel.
If the Shia in Yemen were foreign fighters or a small, well-armed minority in Yemen, perhaps it would make more sense. But, the Shia are half the population of Yemen, the oppressed half. Where is the moral and legal legitimacy to bomb half Yemen's population to install another Saudi puppet?
If we're serious about fighting ISIS and AQ (both Sunni extremists), and we believe our reputation is an asset (I'm doubting that), then we need to have an adult conversation with Saudi Arabia and TELL them how things will be in the middle east when it involves the prestige of the United States.
The same goes for Israel.
7
If both sides want us to stay out of this, we should stay out of it
3
is the United States crazy or just plain stupid? To continue this military intervention in the Middle East is the height of folly that only a fool in the White House, the ignorant in both houses of Congress and the blind in the US military could advocate. Withdraw and stop it now!
7
America lost the lives of thousands, many more wounded, not to mention the billions spent on the war and training the "Iraqi army". And the result of all that is an army that ditches uniform at the sight of the enemy and an Iraqi administration run by Iran and its militias? But hey, Bush got the man who dared mess with his dad! Mission Accomplished.
6
First Bush caused everything . . . then the Earth began to cool and primitive life began to form. Then Cheney and Haliburton . . .
The mess of Mesopotamian just gets messier. We seem to be an ally and enemy to everyone simultaneously. It makes my head spin thinking about how much money we are wasting on this religious war. This morning I read how we should bomb Iran and then here it says we need their help. Maybe this is the new US Foreign policy - do one than the other?
6
Why is American foreign policy controlled by graduates of elite universities? See where that has taken us. The "experts" do not know what they are doing.
7
It looked as if the militia advance had ground to a halt with reported substantial casualties. The US lead bombing activity permits these militia to withdraw from the conflict under the guise of objecting to the US involvement. This excuse allows them to withdraw from what can be interpreted as a battle that they were nit going to succeed in without taking heavy casualties.
It also highlights the narrow mindedness and bigotry of these various groups which is akin to young kids in the back seat of the car arguing over who has more seat than them or they've taken my toy. Iraq doesn't need that for they have previously displayed such small group thinking or ISIS.
It also highlights the narrow mindedness and bigotry of these various groups which is akin to young kids in the back seat of the car arguing over who has more seat than them or they've taken my toy. Iraq doesn't need that for they have previously displayed such small group thinking or ISIS.
2
As Laurel and Hardy might say: "what a fine mess." But I think there is a complex logic behind all of this. There are multiple wars going on in the Middle East....but the large ones ---First between Shiites and Sunnis resemble the wars between Catholics and Protestants during the reformation. Overlaid on this sectarian/religious war is the war against Western modern values being waged by Islamic extremists of both Sunni and Shiite stripes.... The U.S. has been battling the Sunni extremists since 9/11 without really acknowledging that the source of funding and recruitment for our adversaries was coming from our Sunni allies the Saudis. The Saudi government walks a tightrope between supporting the Wahabi fundamentalists and aiding their Western business partners. U.S. support of the Sunni governments in the region of strife has not been successful. Allowing or tacitly supporting Iranian influence may be the best strategy for defeating Sunni fundamentalists and lighting a fire under our Sunni allies. However, the Shiite militias may be finding it difficult to change tunes mid-stream and accept Western assistance.
2
It is impossible US forces hit anything but correct, military targets. For example, when a US drone recently killed a grade 6 boy in Yemen he was a legitimate insurgent. I found this out by finding the Reuters story about it buried in the Times after much research.
On the other hand if it turns out Israel is in any way involved,any casualties will be civilian. That will include 22 year old men carrying RPG's who are farmers.
See what you learn reading the Times.
On the other hand if it turns out Israel is in any way involved,any casualties will be civilian. That will include 22 year old men carrying RPG's who are farmers.
See what you learn reading the Times.
2
Plenty of six year old insurgents over there. Their culture creates a mentality of bloodthirstiness, even at a young age. More than a few of our soldiers were blown up by children on suicide bombing runs.
Judith,
Your wasting your time trying to reason with the Ultraliberals that support this News Paper. This is not the News Paper that I was handed in Grade School, nor is it the Democratic Party that I embraced as a young man. It's been hijacked by radicals who's main objective is to take from the haves & give to the have nots that don't pay taxes or contribute to the betterment of this nation. You can usually find them marching behind a rabble rouser who is denouncing everything that we hold holy.
Your wasting your time trying to reason with the Ultraliberals that support this News Paper. This is not the News Paper that I was handed in Grade School, nor is it the Democratic Party that I embraced as a young man. It's been hijacked by radicals who's main objective is to take from the haves & give to the have nots that don't pay taxes or contribute to the betterment of this nation. You can usually find them marching behind a rabble rouser who is denouncing everything that we hold holy.
1
How many ways must it be said, "Americans go home; you are not welcome"?Mr. Obama please tell us what is the US interest in continuing these futile wars that waste American and "collateral damage" lives at an annual cost of billions of dollars. Those of us who voted you into office heard you to say that you would end the Bush-initiated debacle. Nothing has changed. I'll be listening to the 2016 candidates to hear what they promise. If all candidates appear committed to "stay the course," I'll not bother to vote for the first time in my close to 62 years of eligibility. You are losing your loyal following.
9
Perhaps it is time for the U.S. to simply stand aside and let them handle their centuries old disputes without our involvement.
9
This is all so very interesting... Keep in mind folks that we have only 100 troops on the ground helping the attack. I do believe that we should retain our current role of providing the bombs, along with the international coalition of troops.
Obviously we should not be fighting wars in the Middle East; that being said, the previous administration did so, and we are dealing with the aftermath. If the Iraqi gov't and various militias wanted more than three weeks of stagnant fighting to take Tikrit, I don't know what to say. We need to help eliminate ISIS and their terrorist ideologies.
Obviously we should not be fighting wars in the Middle East; that being said, the previous administration did so, and we are dealing with the aftermath. If the Iraqi gov't and various militias wanted more than three weeks of stagnant fighting to take Tikrit, I don't know what to say. We need to help eliminate ISIS and their terrorist ideologies.
In war a life is just so negligible, like the number 1 compared to say 30,000 fighters. Doesn't really matter whether it is a government or an outlier political group aiming for some sort of power, it's all the same.
Airstrikes are bombs being dropped down onto people whether you label them as villains or simply casualties (an unfortunate side effect?)
The act of war is an act of terror for all sides. I don't really have an opinion on this.
Airstrikes are bombs being dropped down onto people whether you label them as villains or simply casualties (an unfortunate side effect?)
The act of war is an act of terror for all sides. I don't really have an opinion on this.
2
Don't Worry ! ... Obama knows what he is doing ... and has everything under control... Now let's everybody get together and "hold hands"... And sing Kumbaya..!
6
One to take seriously for sure.
1
Is it just me or does it seem like conservatives in this country are quite silent on how we should progress in the middle east militarily?
I remember just a few months ago crackpots in the Senate wanted the president to, simultaneously, oust Assad of Syria, bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and go all in with ground troops against ISIS.
Of course then, true to form, not one of them spoke of how to PAY for it all, but today we hear nothing.
Has Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution been repealed by that Gang of 5 on the Supreme Court?
I remember just a few months ago crackpots in the Senate wanted the president to, simultaneously, oust Assad of Syria, bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and go all in with ground troops against ISIS.
Of course then, true to form, not one of them spoke of how to PAY for it all, but today we hear nothing.
Has Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution been repealed by that Gang of 5 on the Supreme Court?
3
The Iraq-Iran war continues even when the outcome was determined when the Neocons decided to invade Iraq and establish a Shi'a majority government. The proxy war between the Persians and Arabs continues, but Iraq is no longer Sunni. The question remains, what becomes of the Sunni Kurds? This is what the U.S. should be concentrating on and can possibly do some good by turning up the heat on Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Remember that Russia is backing the Shi'a and has more to gain than we do. Sit down with the Russians and work out a deal to establish Kurdistan and throw Turkey some sort of bone to keep them happy. There are no good outcomes here other than containment.
2
Here's an amusing little thing about that photo of the Iraqi soldiers walking along in their worthless desert. Four of the guys seem to have a good idea of what's up, as they're carrying automatic rifles and wearing helmets and full body armor. One of the guys in the red beret's seems to have absolutely no idea what's up, because he's wearing bright blue camouflage. Bright blue! There's nothing that color on the ground in Iraq anywhere, he'd have to be in tundra to blend in. These guys are going to have a tough time of it on their own if they really want us to ditch out of it.
3
Most comments here see to be unappreciative of Shite groups who withdrew from the fight but the article clearly states "While the withdrawal of Iranian-led Shiite militias was one of the preconditions for the Americans to join the fight".
It is the Americans wanted these groups to keep out, so why are people complaining.
It is the Americans wanted these groups to keep out, so why are people complaining.
2
This illustrates the problems that arise when tribalism, religion, and clan ties are stronger than vague concepts of nationalism.
It also demonstrates what happens when US forces cannot get their own personnel to act as spotters on the ground, and locals may be motivated by their membership in sects, or old family feuds, or even grudges, when they identify targets.
It also demonstrates what happens when US forces cannot get their own personnel to act as spotters on the ground, and locals may be motivated by their membership in sects, or old family feuds, or even grudges, when they identify targets.
7
No it's just the opposite.
They are doing this because they support Iran.
They are doing this because they support Iran.
My running shoes are made in Vietnam. Wasn't that a country we bombed and bombed five decades ago killing so many innocent people?
Have planes will bomb is our motto.
Have planes will bomb is our motto.
9
Agree - and so is my shirt, and I fought there!
So much for being greeted a liberators, and the war paying for itself. Now some of the Shiites we freed from the tyrannical rule of Saddam's (Sunni) military are threatening US forces if we attack the Sunni Saddam veterans, now Isis. Amazing what happens when you fire an army of professional soldiers....apparently they deigned not to follow General Arthur McArthur's edict on old soldiers simply fading away.
Of course the strengthened Iranians are now all too eager to help. Got all that? Good. America doesn't need to be invading any country on the behalf of anyone anytime soon. Iranian WMD and a preemptive US/Israeli strike? Not gonna happen.
Of course the strengthened Iranians are now all too eager to help. Got all that? Good. America doesn't need to be invading any country on the behalf of anyone anytime soon. Iranian WMD and a preemptive US/Israeli strike? Not gonna happen.
10
This is a clear example of why we shouldn't have boots on the ground. It's their fight and Obama is correct in getting us out of the region.
14
What am I missing? The US trained Iraqi troops for years, and these troops collapsed and melted away with the onslaught of ISIL fighters last year. Now the US is in the process of retaining them for a year. How much training do you think ISIL provides to its soldiers or the Shiite militias to their cohorts - perhaps a week? Perhaps its not formal training that Iraqi soldiers need, its a reason to stand and fight, which is obviously lacking in Iraq. The Iraqis are going to have to figure it, and one way to do it is break apart Iraq along tribal and religious lines, and let them defend their own territories!
12
I think this was a great opportunity for us to have both of our enemies fighting each other. The Badr gang that killed many US soldiers vs the Al Queda in Iraq, now ISIL, who killed many US Marines. Why are we involving ourselves? I hope we can fulfill the Badr gang predictions and drop a few bombs on them too.
4
They complain when we don't and they complain when we do. I say this is their problem let them solve it! We should focus on our own problems.
13
What is so difficult about standing aside and showing that we are respecting the wishes of the combatants in this foreign nation by doing so? Acting through what seems best military tactic when we need to learn the best action through understanding this very different culture remains a repeated faux pas in our total history with the Middle East. Why can't we LEARN?
7
Which combatants should the US gov't listen to? Funny you say the US should respect the wishes of these militias in a foreign nation (rather than the actual government of that nation, which requested the airstrikes) when they answer to a foreign government themselves.
2
So what if it is a mess.
If the US has interests, it should pursue them.
If it does not, it should not.
Saying it is a mess so stay away is narcisstic babble. The American civil war, race slavery, now there was a real mess. Rumor has it the foot bone is connected to the leg bone. So what is connected to what and how those connections effect US interests is the question.
By the way, the Middle East was relatively stable for sixty years, with Israel the big source of troubles, that Carter heroically made less a problem. This forever a mess stuff is nonsense, we transformed the place and now it is going through transformation. Shia, for example, run Iraq.
If the US has interests, it should pursue them.
If it does not, it should not.
Saying it is a mess so stay away is narcisstic babble. The American civil war, race slavery, now there was a real mess. Rumor has it the foot bone is connected to the leg bone. So what is connected to what and how those connections effect US interests is the question.
By the way, the Middle East was relatively stable for sixty years, with Israel the big source of troubles, that Carter heroically made less a problem. This forever a mess stuff is nonsense, we transformed the place and now it is going through transformation. Shia, for example, run Iraq.
8
Dear Query,
Sorry, relatively stable? There hasn't been a single year that there wasn't armed conflict in the Middle East. I don't mean within the last 60 years, I mean within history. Since writing was invented, every single year, there has been some armed conflict in the Middle East, anyone saying any different is selling something. I'd say it's forever a mess, and a big part of it is the tribal feuds that have been going on from long before Christianity existed. And the living conditions are harsh, so life is cheap, and death and killing come easy.
We didn't transform the place, it was like this before the U.S.A. existed. And it shows every sign of being like this until the end, which will be before 2100, when it runs completely out of water. And that will be the very end, my friend, and good riddance.
Sorry, relatively stable? There hasn't been a single year that there wasn't armed conflict in the Middle East. I don't mean within the last 60 years, I mean within history. Since writing was invented, every single year, there has been some armed conflict in the Middle East, anyone saying any different is selling something. I'd say it's forever a mess, and a big part of it is the tribal feuds that have been going on from long before Christianity existed. And the living conditions are harsh, so life is cheap, and death and killing come easy.
We didn't transform the place, it was like this before the U.S.A. existed. And it shows every sign of being like this until the end, which will be before 2100, when it runs completely out of water. And that will be the very end, my friend, and good riddance.
2
In the first Gulf War the US encouraged the Shi'i to revolt. They did and then we sat on our hands as we watched Saddam slaughter them. Next we listened to the Israelis who understand the Arab (so they tell us) and with their encouragement invaded Iraq. And now we are amazed that both Sunnis and Shi'i still do not trust us. However, we still don't trust the Iranians while we forget that we installed the Shah to protect our interests. Does anyone think the US has its act together?
18
"Three major Shiite militia groups pulled out of the fight against the Islamic State in Tikrit on Thursday... insisting that the Americans were not needed to defeat the extremists in Tikrit."
They are right, we are not needed and more importantly we are not wanted. Let's go home, now, please.
They are right, we are not needed and more importantly we are not wanted. Let's go home, now, please.
24
These are merely the shifting sands of the Middle East. There aren't many ISIS fighters in Tikrit at this point. The remaining forces should prevail and the fleeing militias are little better than the ISIS forces they oppose.
5
There are three groups who justifiably each want to run their own affairs. Biden, and others, had it right. Set rough borders for relative autonomy, and let them sort out the details. Even a Kurdish region will not threaten Turkey if there is a homeland to migrate into. Anbar has some good people still in it who can run their own affairs better than a central government in the capitol.
5
So much for all the recent NeoCon bluster about the "revitalized" Iraqi army and its supposed mission in taking back territory unmotivated, ill-trained, and badly led forces abandoned with indifferent alacrity. Supposedly more motivated to protect their enclaves, the Shiite militias resent our helping them win the fight against ISIS. If we win, they win too, but this they cannot accept. Give me a break.
What's the way forward here with this ill-conceived and ill-informed strategy to defeat ISIS?
Iraq is not worth another American life. No point in continuing in any way shape or form with this colossal blunder, which has now evolved into a ridiculous triangular rivalry that threatens to turn the US into the laughingstock of the Middle East. We know nothing about this region and are too stupid to learn obvious lessons.
Didn't President Obama rather recently point to Yemen as an example of our successful efforts at intervention in the region?
How did that work out?
What's the way forward here with this ill-conceived and ill-informed strategy to defeat ISIS?
Iraq is not worth another American life. No point in continuing in any way shape or form with this colossal blunder, which has now evolved into a ridiculous triangular rivalry that threatens to turn the US into the laughingstock of the Middle East. We know nothing about this region and are too stupid to learn obvious lessons.
Didn't President Obama rather recently point to Yemen as an example of our successful efforts at intervention in the region?
How did that work out?
8
The Shiite militia groups keep on saying: "We don’t need the American-led coalition...." Hostility toward Americans is one thing. The other is hubris or excessive self-esteem!
Given this uncompromising stance in fighting their enemies, there's risk that the Shiite militia groups would not tell the difference between ISIS and ordinary Iraqi Sunnis. This would only escalate sectarian tensions.
What's even worse is that the US is loathed by the Shiite militias. The Sunnis see it as an enemy, saying it sides with the Shia-led government fighting ISIS, their protector.
Unfortunately the government in Baghdad is weak and can not to rein in the Shiite militias. What a mess!
Given this uncompromising stance in fighting their enemies, there's risk that the Shiite militia groups would not tell the difference between ISIS and ordinary Iraqi Sunnis. This would only escalate sectarian tensions.
What's even worse is that the US is loathed by the Shiite militias. The Sunnis see it as an enemy, saying it sides with the Shia-led government fighting ISIS, their protector.
Unfortunately the government in Baghdad is weak and can not to rein in the Shiite militias. What a mess!
4
And on other news fronts ... literally .. . Egypt is joining Saudi Arabia and others in a ground campaign. Somewhere over there.
Maybe we should have pulled our troops out a lot quicker. Or never gotten involved in the first place.
Maybe we should have pulled our troops out a lot quicker. Or never gotten involved in the first place.
8
We have no business in this area, because we don't understand it. Alliances are feudal and change from minute to minute. The only consistently brave fighters who have also managed to establish government institutions in their territories, are the Kurds. Let them fight it out among themselves and then they can't blame it on us later. When they finally get tired of bombing each other to smithereens, maybe they'll talk amongst themselves and establish some borders they all can live with.
8
This demonstration of sectarian stupidity reflects the opportunity that ISIS has siezed so brilliantly and the danger it presents to the world.
5
Thanks, neocons, for getting us into this madhouse to achieve "regime change" for Israel in Iraq way back when. Without your unexampled folly, NONE of this would be happening.
26
The Neocons don't need to worry; they have the majority in Congress and hope to gain the presidency in 2016. There are plenty of people whose passions and prejudices will be bolstered by propaganda paid for by Koch and other moneyed interests.
The rest of us however, we do need to worry.
The rest of us however, we do need to worry.
1
Really Fred? For 60 years the Arab States have made trillions and trillions of dollars producing oil. Where are the schools, the hospitals, the courts of law, housing, roads, improved agricultural methods, literacy, sanitation, electricity, running water systems and good jobs and a future? Sure we played a part but lets not rule out the responsibility of the Arab state leaders, and, a huge part of the problem is the archaic religious practices that keep the majority of the populous under educated, and ignorant, while subjugating women as well. These problems have existed for thousands of years and our little venture in Iraq surely exacerbated them but they did not start these problems, this has been brewing for a few hundred years, and really got going prior to WW1, read Lawrence In Arabia, lot's of info on the problems erupting in the Arab world primarily of their own making. Geeesh, how long are we going to take the blame for everything. Maybe we should blame England for all of our problems. Or Germany can blame France for all it's problems, or Russia can blame, well everyone.
At this point, anyone trying to follow Middle Eastern politics have their heads reeling. It is becoming ridiculously complicated to figure out who is supporting whom; who one's enemy's enemy is etc. Western forces trying to get rid of ISIS have now lost some of their Shiite allies in Iraq, partly due to their ties to Iran, which has been on the "axis of evil." Meanwhile, US allies Saudi Arabia and Egypt are ready to attack Houthi rebels in Yemen, the very country where Western forces are fighting the Sunni group Al Qaeda. And in Syria, somehow Assad has been temporarily replaced as chief villain by ISIS and other terrorist groups.
Even if we set aside questions regarding the legitimacy of unsanctioned air strikes in Syria, how can anyone support further complicating this quagmire? The foreign policies of the United States and its allies have been an abject failure.
Even if we set aside questions regarding the legitimacy of unsanctioned air strikes in Syria, how can anyone support further complicating this quagmire? The foreign policies of the United States and its allies have been an abject failure.
13
I've simplified it a bit for myself. Everyone in the Middle East is, more or less, the enemy of civilization outside the Middle East. Makes me a lot more sanguine about all the carnage going on.
2
For the past decade, American actions have only fanned the flames of hatred and sectarian warfare in the middle east. It is long, long past time for Americans to demand their elected representatives to stop the madness. No good has come of our actions, and no good will come of our continued interventions.
9
Anyone remember the old saying: If you want something done right you have to do it yourself?
Apparently those at the Pentagon and the Capitol, haven't. They're too busy with their heads up in the clouds thinking wishful thoughts, while all the while thinking the real world can actually be lived and fought in a "virtual" fashion that envolves no real work or sacrifice.
Apparently those at the Pentagon and the Capitol, haven't. They're too busy with their heads up in the clouds thinking wishful thoughts, while all the while thinking the real world can actually be lived and fought in a "virtual" fashion that envolves no real work or sacrifice.
While it would be a legitimate concern about targeting the wrong people in an air fight, the rest sounds like politics and sectarian religious issues. The U.S. should not be involved if Shiites want to massacre Sunni or vice versa. ISIS is the enemy. No good has come of the Bush war in Iraq.
5
If it wasn't for Bush invading Iraq, the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center would still be standing!
What do we have to offer the Turks so we can support the Kurds and create a free Kurdistan? After that, we can write off everyone else in the region.
7
Ruth: Seriously. The Kurds are the only ethnic group outside of the African continent who routinely inflict genital mutilation on their girls. (It is not a religiously-mandated Islamic practice; it pre-dated Islam and Muhammad did not outlaw it but urged his followers to "cut just a little.")
We in the West have this habit of adopting our pet ethnic groups. There are no angels in the Middle East, despite the proliferation of Divine Revelation...
We in the West have this habit of adopting our pet ethnic groups. There are no angels in the Middle East, despite the proliferation of Divine Revelation...
5
I think you are mistaken , SCA. I will look into that claim you make.
1
Mark: Per Wikipedia: ""Female genital mutilation is prevalent in Iraqi Kurdistan, with FGM rates exceeding 80% in Garmyan and New Kirkuk. In Arbil Governorate and Suleymaniya Type I FGM is common; while in Garmyan and New Kirkuk, Type II and III FGM are common.[162][163] There was no law against FGM in Iraqi Kurdistan, but in 2007 a draft legislation condemning the practice was submitted to the Regional Parliament, but was not passed.[164] A 2011 Kurdish law criminalized FGM practice in Iraqi Kurdistan,[165] however this law is not being enforced."
1
Look to the mess in Arab countries! I wonder who started and who profited from it. Certainly not the Arabs with hundred thousands of refugees, dead, wounded with destroyed homes.
1
millions of dead, etc...
2
We haven't learned a thing. We're still involving ourselves in other peoples business, even when it's clear they don't want us to. I ask myself "Who's running this show" (our government and making decisions) and come up with the same answer. No on-one. And judging from the start of the political season it appears nothing will change............. until someday when the wheels come off and we land in the proverbial ditch.
7
After ten years of haphazard fighting in Iraq and the wisdom of scores of Bush generals and officials we find ourselves still out of sync with the local authorities and as ignorant as ever on how to deal with the Iraq that we have devastated and destroyed after thinking we had "mission accomplished" when we actually had only stumbled into a catastrophe of our own making. We still don't seem to have any idea how to deal with the Moslem world, but continue the same old policies and tactics getting nowhere but deeper into the swampland of false assumptions of the Bush's celebrated mission.
8
It wouldn't surprise me if American fighters suddenly started getting shot down by advanced Iranian surface to air weaponry.
1
The militias advances had stalled. They are just using the American airstrikes as cover for their already underway retreat in the face of ISIS.
1
Wouldn't it be nice if we had just left Hussein alone.
Tens of thousands would not be dead; archeological sites would not have been pulverized and Isis would not exist.
Just another consequence of an American disease that has taken over our country since the days of Harry Truman. Stupid, impulsive and irrational intervention into the Korean Civil War; stupid and irrational intervention into the Vietnamese civil War, then deliberate and unprovoked invasion of Iraq.
What is it with us Americans? Do we just like to kill and cause chaos?
Now we got Senators and Congressmen screeming for the destruction of Iran.
When will it end.
Tens of thousands would not be dead; archeological sites would not have been pulverized and Isis would not exist.
Just another consequence of an American disease that has taken over our country since the days of Harry Truman. Stupid, impulsive and irrational intervention into the Korean Civil War; stupid and irrational intervention into the Vietnamese civil War, then deliberate and unprovoked invasion of Iraq.
What is it with us Americans? Do we just like to kill and cause chaos?
Now we got Senators and Congressmen screeming for the destruction of Iran.
When will it end.
101
It will end when there are no more Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots, Maos, Husseins, etc.
Why is it supposed peace loving people are wiling to have murders stopped as long as they are within US borders? This to me is the ultimate bigotry.
Why is it supposed peace loving people are wiling to have murders stopped as long as they are within US borders? This to me is the ultimate bigotry.
As a New Zealander I have always had great admiration for America and i think the US Declaration of Independence and Constitution are great pillars in Western civilization, the greatest civilization the world has ever known. The US role in stopping the Nazis and Japanese, and opposing Stalinist brands of communism was extremely important. Unfortunately, I think the problem now is that the US system has become increasingly perverted by big monetary interests and what the US now stands for, particularly in its Republican extremes, is no longer anything resembling its roots. US citizens think they are free but to me, when I look at the stats, the rich and poor, the people in US prisons, I see they are enslaved by their obscenely rich and the banks who have come to won their media and political system. I now believe the wars the US fight are now far more for the benefit of those interests than to uphold freedom and rights and protect the interests of US citizens. Unfortunately, the blunt fact is that US has become corrupt and like with the fall Rome, the barbarians are gathering.
2
We can thank Harry Truman for jumping to recognize Israel which he did for political purposes in the presidential election he was facing. Garnering the Jewish vote took him over the top. Another thorn in the American involvement in the Middle East that has not gone away.
This made me laugh out loud:
"A fourth Shiite militia group ... vowed to attack foreign members of the American-led coalition, raising the possibility that it might turn anti-aircraft fire against American planes from what had been Iraqi fighting positions."
All made possible by G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and the fools who supported that idiotic war.
"A fourth Shiite militia group ... vowed to attack foreign members of the American-led coalition, raising the possibility that it might turn anti-aircraft fire against American planes from what had been Iraqi fighting positions."
All made possible by G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and the fools who supported that idiotic war.
7
"All made possible by G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and the fools who supported that idiotic war."
There was no big opposition to this war by American people, and their representatives approved it. I think many people felt happy and proud when Bush declared "Mission accomplished."
There was no big opposition to this war by American people, and their representatives approved it. I think many people felt happy and proud when Bush declared "Mission accomplished."
3
Turgut, have you been drinking from the water fountains down at Minitrue? It's hard not to come to this conclusion if you think "our representatives'" votes actually reflect the will of the people. Thanks to gerrymandering, in recent years most of the Democrats living in Texas have had absolutely no influence on the votes of their "representatives."
2
This is great news when Iraqis don't want our help. Let's not get involved... anywhere in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter, unless it is through the auspices of the United Nations. We have got to stop being the world's policeman.
20
We really do need to stop being the planetary police force. American taxpayers are paying for this role, and we are absolutely NOT receiving a return on our investment. We have a crumbling domestic infrastructure, subpar grade school public education, and not enough jobs for millions of Americans. It's time we focused Americans' hard work, time, and resources on domestic issues that will immediately benefit Americans rather than spending billions on preemptive actions against *possible* future threats. These adventures in the Middle East are only destroying or ruining peoples' lives in greater numbers than Iraq's rule under Saddam Hussein ever did, and are making American more hated and less secure. We need to get out.
8
We're not doing this stuff to be the world's policemen, as it so often seems we are. We're doing it to protect our economic interests, insofar as those interests coincide with those of the big oil companies and military contractors.
3
"This is great news when Iraqis don't want our help."
Neither for throwing out Saddam.
Neither for throwing out Saddam.
Well if Iraq would really rather fail on their own, as they've been failing, why shouldn't we let them fail? The "nation" is going to be wrapped up in sectarian murderous conflict until it runs out of water anyway, what's the difference if we're involved or not? They've got around 50 to 90 years left to exist, if they want to spend it fighting amongst themselves over antiquated religious and tribal ideals, then I'd say let them. Not like they're going to be useful to humanity in the slightest anyway. So I'd recommend we stop running airstrikes until the day comes that we'll need to bomb indiscriminately and wipe out whatever barbarians have managed to reign supreme in Iraq.
14
Excellent! We can now stay out of a fight we should never have been in and let them handle their own problems.
10
Can. But probably won't . The U.S likes to dictate, not be told they aren't wanted or needed, or welcome.
2
Report says the Shiite militias quit in protest of U.S. airstrikes that were intended to aid their advance. What is the likelihood they quit in protest against the U.S. “logistical and intelligence support” to the Saudi airstrikes against the Iranian (and Shiite)-supported Houthi rebel advances in Yemen?
The U.S. is in the unenviable (and perhaps untenable) position of supporting the fighting on both sides of the Sunni-Shiite sectarian divide. This is not surprising since Saudi Arabia and Iran are looking out for their own interests, not ours.
The U.S. is in the unenviable (and perhaps untenable) position of supporting the fighting on both sides of the Sunni-Shiite sectarian divide. This is not surprising since Saudi Arabia and Iran are looking out for their own interests, not ours.
115
...and Iran continues to be the big winner in all of this.
1
Our government never seems to look out for the interests of the American people----only foreign governments, big business, big banks and other special interests and the American taxpayers are left to pick up the tab and send their children to die fighting for the oil companies and the Likud Party in ruinously expensive and endless Middle Eastern wars. Meanwhile at home we have a decaying infrastructure, a federal government drowning in debt, our national government in virtual gridlock on any and every issue, our industrial base hollowed out and shipped overseas, millions of unemployed, tens of millions in poverty, a health care system that is un-affordable and unavailable for many sick people, and borders that are out of control as the country is overrun with impoverished illegal aliens posing as "refugees". But the American "elite" brainwashed at posh prep schools and Ivy League Colleges in the thrall of "globalism" and "One World/New World Order" is obsessed with geo-political games across the globe and squandering trillions of taxpayer dollars in pursuit of endless, un-winnable wars and un-achievable "goals". While all this is going on we are needlessly alienating nearly every nation on earth and every ethnic group by endless meddling in their affairs and trying to dictate their "marching orders". We are rapidly becoming the most hated nation on the face of the earth. A just day of reckoning is ahead for the U.S.----and when it comes no one will lift a finger to help us.
1
Sounds the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s when we covertly supported both sides. We still haven't learned our lesson.
We just can't win with these people. Let's just pull all our assets out of their and let them have the war amongst themselves that they've waited centuries for.
7
And pay them billions of dollars for reparation!
1
Reparations for destroying a country that did us no harm? Only in Iraqi dreams, I'm afraid. Only the totally vanquished (e.g., Germany at the end of WW--II) seem to face accountability for their aggressive misdeeds.
2
Can you imagine a future historian trying to make sense of the Middle East the last ten years? Our current Isis foe is being attacked by Shias who have never forgiven us for removing the Sunni dictator who persecuted them. ((Yes, yes, I know, we destroyed their country in the process--another complication.) The Shias withdraw from the battle in protest over our aiding them in battle or perhaps at the behest of our on-hold enemy, Iran who's been our de facto ally in the Isis fight (strenuously denied by everyone!) And by the way, the Saudis and Egyptians are invading Yemen. What's our position on that? Who knows. Perhaps the historians will figure it out.
65
"Make sense"? It makes perfect sense. The most powerful country on the planet, the United States, maintains a foreign policy centered around oil and Israel. Everything that has followed is directly attributable to that. The Muslim world has figured it out. Only the western bloc, including the American people, have not.
4
I agree. In the past, I always dreaded teaching the Haitian Revolution, Spanish Civil War and Algerian Civil War to IB students. However, understanding the current revolutions, civil wars, and foreign involvement in the Middle-East and North Africa is almost impossible.
1
Which is why we should have never gone in to Iraq in the first instance.
1
If ISIS is truly a threat to the US and the goal in Iraq is to defeat ISIS, would it not be to our advantage to work with Iran to eliminate a threat, achieve a goal and use the opportunity to open a much needed avenue of dialogue with the Iranians?
9
We didn't "create" the Taliban or ISIS but we enabled them. We seem to be ignorant about religious wars and incapable of learning. That's funny because religious wars in Europe forced us to create the democracy we have with religious freedom and separation of church and state.
Our weapons went to ISIS because we can't tell a moderate militia from an Islamist militia and the extremists are the better fighters. We let the Shia rescue what was left of Iraq then wanted them to back off and give the credit to the Sunni Iraqi military. Stupid, stupid, stupid. If we want Iraq's Shia and Sunni to live together in peace let them bond fighting side by side. We seem incapable of being honest brokers anywhere in the Middle East.
Our weapons went to ISIS because we can't tell a moderate militia from an Islamist militia and the extremists are the better fighters. We let the Shia rescue what was left of Iraq then wanted them to back off and give the credit to the Sunni Iraqi military. Stupid, stupid, stupid. If we want Iraq's Shia and Sunni to live together in peace let them bond fighting side by side. We seem incapable of being honest brokers anywhere in the Middle East.
4
We are involving ourselves in a major Sunni / Shia war ,Saudi Arabia on the one hand is a covert sponsers of Sunni ISIS and Iran a supporter of Hamas and Assad.
If we back Saudi Arabia when the Monarchy gets overthrown we will faced by Sunni extremist armed by ourselves.
If we back Iran we incur the wrath of the Sunnis forever.
Best to stay out of it , China does not meddle overtly in other peoples affairs and is not threatened.
Let's focus on getting our democracy right, becoming energy independent and building our economy.
Sounds isolationist but more like common sense who would wittingly rush into a raging fire.
If we back Saudi Arabia when the Monarchy gets overthrown we will faced by Sunni extremist armed by ourselves.
If we back Iran we incur the wrath of the Sunnis forever.
Best to stay out of it , China does not meddle overtly in other peoples affairs and is not threatened.
Let's focus on getting our democracy right, becoming energy independent and building our economy.
Sounds isolationist but more like common sense who would wittingly rush into a raging fire.
18
"Tikrit is an easy battle, we can win it ourselves,” said Mueen al-Kadhumi, who is one of the Shiite militia group’s top commanders."
Their top commanders don't want us. We don't want to be there.
Case closed, let them fight their fight without us.
I suspect Tikrit is not where the ISIS decision makers are plotting against the United States and other places beyond Iraq. We need to go for the strategic targets, not the tactical targets. Tikrit is high profile but it is still only tactical from the US perspective. The strategic targets are the IS(S people leading, planning and training the ideological zealots.
I suspect that special operations are both more appropriate and more effective in getting to these targets than any amount of bombing front line locations such as Tikrit.
Of course that assumes that there is credible intelligence about where these targets are located and even who they are. Perhaps that is where our first priorities should be.
Their top commanders don't want us. We don't want to be there.
Case closed, let them fight their fight without us.
I suspect Tikrit is not where the ISIS decision makers are plotting against the United States and other places beyond Iraq. We need to go for the strategic targets, not the tactical targets. Tikrit is high profile but it is still only tactical from the US perspective. The strategic targets are the IS(S people leading, planning and training the ideological zealots.
I suspect that special operations are both more appropriate and more effective in getting to these targets than any amount of bombing front line locations such as Tikrit.
Of course that assumes that there is credible intelligence about where these targets are located and even who they are. Perhaps that is where our first priorities should be.
4
Iran fighting with Iraq was a powder keg waiting to explode.
Better now than later.
Better now than later.
@Elaine Coyle
"Better now than later."
I think it's more like deja vu, or been there done that.
"Better now than later."
I think it's more like deja vu, or been there done that.
3
What a perfect juncture for an announcement that local forces will deal with local liberation, and to give the US a call if all the allied forces want us to help.
With the Saudis (and now Egypt) wading into Yemen's civil war, maybe it's time to stand back, break out the popcorn, and just watch. For once. 'bout time.
With the Saudis (and now Egypt) wading into Yemen's civil war, maybe it's time to stand back, break out the popcorn, and just watch. For once. 'bout time.
16
Except the U.S will probably not listen ,or respect this . The U.S likes to think or be in charge , even when most of the time, their involvement just makes things worse.
1
Well, it appears that our efforts to support the Shia militias in their fight against ISIS is unappreciated and unwanted. I guess Shia militias still remember those battles with the US military a decade ago … especially the part where bombs that were dropped on them. Could it be that they believe that there are bombs in the US arsenal with their names on them?
If you examine the Shia militias response to the US support in a non historical perspective, their response seems completely disconnected from military reality. Air power, precision munitions really can reduce the military effectiveness of the enemy, reduce your casualties and enable your side to gain the upper hand. But if you’re recalling the past and as a result you don’t trust the people dropping the bombs, if you believe that secretly they’re really out to get you and not your enemy, then your response as a member of a Shia militia is understandable … not a response in your best interest, but understandable nevertheless.
If you examine the Shia militias response to the US support in a non historical perspective, their response seems completely disconnected from military reality. Air power, precision munitions really can reduce the military effectiveness of the enemy, reduce your casualties and enable your side to gain the upper hand. But if you’re recalling the past and as a result you don’t trust the people dropping the bombs, if you believe that secretly they’re really out to get you and not your enemy, then your response as a member of a Shia militia is understandable … not a response in your best interest, but understandable nevertheless.
39
Indeed. If U.S. policymakers and military planners made decisions from some sense of historical perspective, the U.S. might not have lost every war/conflict in which it has engaged since WW-II except for the invasion of Grenada.
1
Hi From,
Your response to their cowardice is ridiculous. Once again, they have shown they do not have the resolve to stand and fight ISIS, and they fled like they did in Mosul.Their audacity to put the blame on the United States is beyond outrageous.If we lose one more American,& one more dollar in defense of these cowards, Obama should face impeachment.
Your response to their cowardice is ridiculous. Once again, they have shown they do not have the resolve to stand and fight ISIS, and they fled like they did in Mosul.Their audacity to put the blame on the United States is beyond outrageous.If we lose one more American,& one more dollar in defense of these cowards, Obama should face impeachment.
On Thursday night, an airstrike on the village of Alvu Ajeel, on the edge of Tikrit, killed six Shiite militiamen, as well as three federal policemen, one of them a colonel, according to a spokesman for the Iraqi military’s Salahuddin Operations Command. The strike was thought to have been carried out by the United States.
“We don’t trust the American-led coalition in combating ISIS,” said Naeem al-Uboudi, the spokesman for Asaib Ahl al-Haq, one of the three groups which said it would withdraw from the front line around Tikrit. “In the past, they have targeted our security forces and dropped aid to ISIS by mistake,” he said.
One of the leaders of the biggest militias in the fight, the Badr Organization, also criticized the American role and said his group, too, might pull out.
“We don’t need the American-led coalition to participate in Tikrit. Tikrit is an easy battle, we can win it ourselves,” said Mueen al-Kadhumi, who is one of the Shiite militia group’s top commanders.
“We don’t trust the American-led coalition in combating ISIS,” said Naeem al-Uboudi, the spokesman for Asaib Ahl al-Haq, one of the three groups which said it would withdraw from the front line around Tikrit. “In the past, they have targeted our security forces and dropped aid to ISIS by mistake,” he said.
One of the leaders of the biggest militias in the fight, the Badr Organization, also criticized the American role and said his group, too, might pull out.
“We don’t need the American-led coalition to participate in Tikrit. Tikrit is an easy battle, we can win it ourselves,” said Mueen al-Kadhumi, who is one of the Shiite militia group’s top commanders.
I'll never forget President Bush's 2002 speech when he, framed by Cheney and Rumsfeld, presciently said: "We are fully aware that 12 years from now when Al Qaeda metastasizes into ever more virulent strains in Iraq, we will face the impossibility of creating joint Iraqi forces of Sunni and Shia to fight them. We will sometimes rely on Iran, sometimes Iraqi Shia, and sometimes Kurds. We fully anticipate the challenges ahead."
14
Could you provide readers with a link? I couldn't find the quote.
1
Are you pretty sure that was 2002, and that George Bush said those words?
It's usually pretty easy to find a Web page containing a quote, but not this one. Please help me out with the link.
2
Everybody stand down. 20,000 are more than sufficient to dislodge 2,000 ISIS.
And quicker with air-cover.
And quicker with air-cover.
1
In the last 8 year war between Shia Iranian and Sunni Iraqi , Iranian Shia could not occupy a mile of Iraqi territory and no western power was involve in that war. Now they have the same scenario with ISIS .Iranian Mullahs are terrified by ISIS fighter along the western boundary of Iran and we should not help them at any cost. instead we should concentrate on defeating ISIS in Syria and pushing them toward the Iranian borders. keep Mullahs and their thugs involve in a long term war with ISIS thugs without our involvement .
2
The headline and most of news report says some of the Shia militia pulled out because of the Americans started bombing runs, then midway in, the report says the U.S. said Iran and whichever militia are closest to them had to leave before they would do any bombing runs. Huh?
The reporting is confused and has not adequately penetrated what is going on.
Seems, Iranian sympathizers have the population and boots on the ground in Iraq. The U.S. and its (Sunni) "allies"are there with their air forces, but neither side wants to play with the other, and neither side wants to leave either, less they cede the field to the other. ISIS lives only on the basis of the disagreements between these groups (and internal Sunni extremism), the shadow war is the real thing. So, next theater, Yemen. Similar combustible mixes.
The reporting is confused and has not adequately penetrated what is going on.
Seems, Iranian sympathizers have the population and boots on the ground in Iraq. The U.S. and its (Sunni) "allies"are there with their air forces, but neither side wants to play with the other, and neither side wants to leave either, less they cede the field to the other. ISIS lives only on the basis of the disagreements between these groups (and internal Sunni extremism), the shadow war is the real thing. So, next theater, Yemen. Similar combustible mixes.
7
Why are we going where we are not welcome? Their land, their people and let them suffer their own losses and their money. We must be real dense or real thick-skinned or both!
11
anyone who believes that Iran does not have ambitions to take over Iraq, indeed to take as much control as it can of the ME, has not been doing their homework; for the US administration to believe Iran does not have such ambitions, as well as known ambitions for nuclear weapons, is a case of short-sightedness and/or delusion; the enemy of our enemy is NOT our friend; "working with Iran" is working against every country it intends to take over; Iraqi head of government knows that, every head of government in the ME knows that; only head of government that DOESN'T know that, apparently, is ours
3
"anyone who believes that Iran does not have ambitions to take over Iraq, indeed to take as much control as it can of the ME, has not been doing their homework".....You need to do your homework. The people in Iran are Persian. The people in Iraq are Arab. Persians and Arabs have a long history of enmity. Any cooperation between them is a temporary alliance of convenience.
1
You seem to know a lot of things nobody else knows. What "homework have you done that caused you to conclude that Iran wishes to "take over Iraq, and take control of as much as it can of the Middle East"? There is one country in the region that actually possesses nuclear weapons, and that's Israel. Also, if you're using actions as a guide, which country has demonstrated an interest in "taking control of as much as it can of the Middle East" more than any other in the world? Think about that one.
3
Maybe the previous head of our government should have thought about the balance of power in the Middle East before he began his preventative war in Iraq.
3
This is insane! If the Shiite militias-who really should be doing the fighting--don't think we're needed, why are we there?
26
Do you really imagine that the mass of the population of any of the many countries that we've attacked since WW-II thought that our attacks were "needed". Our wars are rarely about what the people on the ground might need or want; more often they're about what a small elite might see as advantageous in the short term to their economic interests.
2
I don't think for a minute that our involvement is warranted anywhere in the ME. That's been the problem all along. Especially so in this case where it has resulted in the withdrawl of 30,000 pairs of THEIR boots on the ground, with even more likely to follow.
2
The Shia are boycotting because of Saudi Arabia's actions attacking the Shia in Yemen. The Shia in Yemen represent approx 50% of the population. The current unelected and fleeing "president" of Yemen has no more legitimacy to rule than the Shia.
Our allies in the battle against ISIS, the Iraqi Shia have a legitimate point. If we fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria, why aren't we fighting ISIS in Yemen. This is absurd.
Our allies in the battle against ISIS, the Iraqi Shia have a legitimate point. If we fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria, why aren't we fighting ISIS in Yemen. This is absurd.
6
We were fighting ISIS (or at least Al Qaeda) in Yemen, before the Shia Houthis kicked us out.
The Houthis are fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda much more effectively. Even the New York Times admitted such on Jan. 7, 2015. Now, we are fighting the most effective force against ISIS and AQ that Yemen has ever seen. They're on the ground routing them out. We were in the air wasting money.
Explain that
Explain that
We are hearing the voice of Iran speaking loudly and clearly. They want the US out of the conflict. Iran is making its move.
After Iran pushes out the ISIS devils, they will be viewed as hero's and liberators by the locals. That's exactly what they want. This way, the people will voluntarily embrace Iran and its influence. They will claim that we brought you peace and stability. The Americans never could.
iran is playing us on all fronts and they are steadily advancing their agenda throughout the region. This nuclear arms thing is just a sideshow and we fell for it. Meanwhile, Shia power continues to grow.
After Iran pushes out the ISIS devils, they will be viewed as hero's and liberators by the locals. That's exactly what they want. This way, the people will voluntarily embrace Iran and its influence. They will claim that we brought you peace and stability. The Americans never could.
iran is playing us on all fronts and they are steadily advancing their agenda throughout the region. This nuclear arms thing is just a sideshow and we fell for it. Meanwhile, Shia power continues to grow.
4
"...iran is playing us on all fronts and they are steadily advancing their agenda throughout the region."
If Iranian led/supported forces can't dislodge 75 ISIL fighters in 4 weeks, it's going to take them a while to advance their agenda.
If Iranian led/supported forces can't dislodge 75 ISIL fighters in 4 weeks, it's going to take them a while to advance their agenda.
7
Shia power would not be a bad thing, we saw the results of Sunni power on 9/11. Shia Iran has attacked no one in centuries.
1
Has it occurred to you that, in your scenario, Iran might be right? What on earth might give you the idea that U.S. involvement might be an improvement over Iranian involvement?
USA should have waited for a couple more weeks to make the militias look incapable in contrast to our indispensability.
3
Before the US invasion of Iraq no one would have described these militias as Shiite. They would have described them as Iraqi militias.
Whether it be Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, or Ukraine, our ham-fisted presence in these countries has ignited long dormant divisions from within causing conflagrations to rage out of control to everyone's detriment including our own.
We just don't get it!
Whether it be Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, or Ukraine, our ham-fisted presence in these countries has ignited long dormant divisions from within causing conflagrations to rage out of control to everyone's detriment including our own.
We just don't get it!
48
Finally, a bit of wisdom and truth.
Yeah--there were no Shia-Sunni conflicts in the ME before the U.S. invaded Iraq....
3
@Doolin66
". . . long dormant divisions"??? From what I've read, there's hardly been a period of peace since the year 632.
". . . long dormant divisions"??? From what I've read, there's hardly been a period of peace since the year 632.
1
all the posts here seem to miss the only salient point to this specific topic; its in the article buy I'll post it: "Before starting the airstrikes, American officials demanded that Iranian officials and the militias closest to them to stand aside while other Iraqi forces went in to drive out the last militants in the city."
The USA again seems to miscalculate the realities on the ground and sacrifices myopic short term goals for the long term.
The reality is that Iran is a regional power and we need to develop a dialogue and understanding with it. I'm bemused by those that rise to Israel's defense at the suggestion that Iran may develop a nuclear weapon. In fact, Israel today has over 100 such weapons and the delivery systems to accurately launch them; Israel has also declined to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty.
Today and in the future, the best interests of the USA will not be a blind, unilateral alliance with Israel.
The USA again seems to miscalculate the realities on the ground and sacrifices myopic short term goals for the long term.
The reality is that Iran is a regional power and we need to develop a dialogue and understanding with it. I'm bemused by those that rise to Israel's defense at the suggestion that Iran may develop a nuclear weapon. In fact, Israel today has over 100 such weapons and the delivery systems to accurately launch them; Israel has also declined to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty.
Today and in the future, the best interests of the USA will not be a blind, unilateral alliance with Israel.
18
With a commander in goof at the helm why would they trust him to get anything right? I think They were being generous by calling the blunders a mistake.
Good for them. It is their country, which we demolished without their invitation or permission. Our own lunacy created ISIS, as it created Al Qaeda and the Taliban before it.
We continue to fail to understand, because Israel and AIPAC have blocked our ears, that Iran's own strategic interests lie in preventing the cancerous spread of Sunni fundamentalist atrocities. That's why the Saudis hate them enough to form common cause with Israel.
Iran as a fomenter and financer of terrorism? We've done pretty well by that ourselves. The groups we have recruited, trained and armed, and the moneybags behind them, have caused more misery and destruction than anything the Iranians and their clients have done.
Real peace in the Middle East--lasting peace that allows individuals and nations to prosper and the next generation to choose healthy and productive paths--cannot be achieved without some sort of partnership--open or unacknowledged--with Iran. The only nation that profits by the constant drumbeat of war is Israel.
We continue to fail to understand, because Israel and AIPAC have blocked our ears, that Iran's own strategic interests lie in preventing the cancerous spread of Sunni fundamentalist atrocities. That's why the Saudis hate them enough to form common cause with Israel.
Iran as a fomenter and financer of terrorism? We've done pretty well by that ourselves. The groups we have recruited, trained and armed, and the moneybags behind them, have caused more misery and destruction than anything the Iranians and their clients have done.
Real peace in the Middle East--lasting peace that allows individuals and nations to prosper and the next generation to choose healthy and productive paths--cannot be achieved without some sort of partnership--open or unacknowledged--with Iran. The only nation that profits by the constant drumbeat of war is Israel.
43
Well said. Saudi Arabia is not in a proxy way against Iran in Yemen. That is made up for public consumption in America. Saudi Arabia is deathly afraid of ISIS, which would fill any void or vacuum in Yemen should the chaos continue. This is what happened in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, etc. ISIS has an ultimate goal that of overthrowing the Saudi monarchy and replacing it as the home of Islam and the land of Mecca. ISIS has said that Saudi Arabia is too close to the western infidels and allows an un-pure Islamic state to exist. That is what Saudi Arabia is afraid of and why it is leading a coalition to put down the chaos in Yemen. All this talk about Iran is superficial, just to avoid revealing the real fear of the Saudi monarchy - ISIS. This is ironic since their Wahhabi Sunni beliefs are the root of the creation and financial support of Al Qaeda and now ISIS.
As the president of Iran stated in an interview on BBC World News (if I remember correct) the Shiaii will not produce or use weapons of mass destruction, counter to the belief of our CIA, The reason is that WMD are directed indiscriminately and innocent get killed or injured. H stated that during the Iraqi-Iran war, the U.S. provided poison gas, as WMD, to Saddam Hussein and used it against Iranian forces. The president of Iran was asked at that time, though he was not president at that time, for permission to use poison gases against the Iraqi forces. He refused permission to use or develop poison gases due to religious teachings. Therefore, that branch of Shiaii will not like the indiscriminate bombing in Tikrit and such use of WMD practiced by the U.S. is not to be followed It kills and injures innocents.
1
Remember mullahs including president of Iran are masters in lie and deception. You either are uninformed abut Iranian mullahs and history or you are one of their charlatan beneficiaries.
1
I have one sister-in-law from Iraq, Bachelor's from Univ. of Baghdad, Master's from American Univ. in Beirut, Lebanon and PhD from Oxford.
My other brother was married to an Iranian girl. As a result I studied both cultures and several of the religious sects of the middle East countries.
I have no other ties to the Middle East. However, I am very skeptical of the CIA and the U.S. military intelligence services and the military as proponents of policies in the Middle East.
I am a Veteran. I am not in favor of war except when directly attacked. I feel that wars such as our invasion of Iraq was unjustified and that the lies which justified any such wars are criminal. Deaths of American military personnel are directly the cause of lies by former president G. W. Bush and former V. Press R. Cheney as well as others. These individuals are the ultimate cause of the deaths of Americans plus thousands of the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan and should be prosecuted for first degree murder. I supported Obama in his first election and his second election only in the hopes he would prosecute those individuals for First Degree murder of American military personnel using Iraqi and Afghans as proxy agents.
My other brother was married to an Iranian girl. As a result I studied both cultures and several of the religious sects of the middle East countries.
I have no other ties to the Middle East. However, I am very skeptical of the CIA and the U.S. military intelligence services and the military as proponents of policies in the Middle East.
I am a Veteran. I am not in favor of war except when directly attacked. I feel that wars such as our invasion of Iraq was unjustified and that the lies which justified any such wars are criminal. Deaths of American military personnel are directly the cause of lies by former president G. W. Bush and former V. Press R. Cheney as well as others. These individuals are the ultimate cause of the deaths of Americans plus thousands of the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan and should be prosecuted for first degree murder. I supported Obama in his first election and his second election only in the hopes he would prosecute those individuals for First Degree murder of American military personnel using Iraqi and Afghans as proxy agents.
2
Thanks we should leave. Take all our war toys and all our private contractors and all our people and planes and leave already.
68
Where's the profit in that?
3
I'll admit it: I follow this stuff pretty closely, and I have no idea what's going on and/or who I should be supporting.
What a mess.
What a mess.
75
Thanks. I thought it was just me.
1
I too follow this stuff (eternal Mideast conflict) way too closely, and I've reached the conclusion that only the Kurds are al all worthy of support. Everyone else fighting eachother is just doing it out of lust for power and a yearning to murder people who are in different tribes or religious sects. None of them are the good guys, except probably the Kurds, who seem almost civilized.
2
I agree with Stackhouse on the Kurds. The thing that troubles me most is that many of the Iraqi minorities who face persecution or worse at the hands of ISIS are in jeopardy as a result of our actions (the 2003 invasion and after). As much as I prefer to stay out of this mess, I feel we have a responsibility toward these people. We shouldn't just stand by and allow them to be murdered or enslaved.
It really seems the US can do no good in the eyes of Iraqis. Help, don't help, our government is criticized either way. It's sad to say, but at this point it'd be easier and cheaper to let ISIS take the country and then just cut the state off from the world both economically and diplomatically.
6
I would venture to say that the Iranians told the Shia militias to pull back from Tikrit, just as we told the Iranians that they would have to stand aside before we undertook airstrikes there. Instead of joining Iran to fight ISIS, we are playing tit-for-tat games in order to keep the Sunnis in Iraq (not to mention the Sunni regime in Saudi Arabia) happy. The United States government does not possess the sophistication required to maintain such a delicate balancing act. Either go all in with anybody who's willing to fight ISIS, or withdraw and let the local actors fight it out.
33
I couldn't have said it better. Why are we always trying to play some political angle?
4
Maybe we lack such sophistication because we have wild-eyed blowhards such as the execrable John Bolton screeching for more war, doing a pretty fair impression of Ahmadinejad, right here in pages of the NYT, while GOP heir-apparent and first-rate hypocrite Jeb Bush assembles a neocon brain trust (I know, a real stretch) as foreign-policy advisors and the Democratic frontrunner is a lot more hawkish than the majority of her party would want.
We've got the most effective hammers in the history of civilization, and elements among us are ever in search of nails to drive for obscene profits up front and neglected disabled veterans in the aftermath.
Until we break this bellicose cycle, it will remain a cycle. Letting the locals deal with ISIS sounds like a promising beginning.
We've got the most effective hammers in the history of civilization, and elements among us are ever in search of nails to drive for obscene profits up front and neglected disabled veterans in the aftermath.
Until we break this bellicose cycle, it will remain a cycle. Letting the locals deal with ISIS sounds like a promising beginning.
2
No wonder the Sunnis ruled Iraq for so many years and that a handful of ISIL fighters can hold the combined forces of the militias and Iraqi army: Shiites act like spoiled children.
5
THIS should not come as surprise as there was no need for "Aerial Bombing" as the ISIS were trapped and it was a matter of time so they run out of food and sleep.
I am also surprised that the Iraqi Army did not use "Tear Gas" to smoke these folks out as in "Urban Warfare", Bombing will devastate the Buildings and Infrastructure and using Tear Gas should be considered as a "Legal" tactic.
THIS again is the result of Saudis complaining that Iran and Shia are "invading" Sunni towns and that if the Shia Militias do not return, there is no way the Iraqis will be able to liberate Mosul on their own.
AND perhaps that is what the Saudis want so to protect their "International Terror Arm"!
I am also surprised that the Iraqi Army did not use "Tear Gas" to smoke these folks out as in "Urban Warfare", Bombing will devastate the Buildings and Infrastructure and using Tear Gas should be considered as a "Legal" tactic.
THIS again is the result of Saudis complaining that Iran and Shia are "invading" Sunni towns and that if the Shia Militias do not return, there is no way the Iraqis will be able to liberate Mosul on their own.
AND perhaps that is what the Saudis want so to protect their "International Terror Arm"!
2
The Iraqi militias appear to be a dysfunctional mess. Good luck with them stopping ISIS without US and allied help.
1
If we do not involve ourselves with the Middle East, then the Middle East will involve itself with us.
1
It is past time for our military leaders to let us know what our interests are in this fight. Are they to fight "terrorism" and "ISIS", because that does not seem to be going to well anywhere. Is it to strengthen the Iraqi military? Because that was supposed to have been done over the past decade. Is it to protect American access to Iraqi oil? That can never be far from anyone's minds. But this latest bombing campaign is not likely to accomplish anything. These people have been killing each other for thousands of years. If they say they can handle Tikrit, let them handle it.
4
Honestly, why do we try and help these people? It's time we had an hyper-intensive program to become energy self-sufficient and let these crazies just kill each other. We are the most giving (or meddling) country in the world. And in the end we always get spit on. If it wasn't for oil we could let the entire Middle East (Israel excepted) go down in flames.
6
"All prominently marked USA."
There are enough prominent marks already, such as destroyed homes, bomb craters, and thousand of tombs!
There are enough prominent marks already, such as destroyed homes, bomb craters, and thousand of tombs!
2
Looks like a combination of chaos, lack of coordination and lack of intelligence. Was the Shiite militia withdrawal a surprise? Does the US not have military intelligence? Some of these militias had Iranian advisers and thus with the Iranians told to take two steps back they too pulled out. How unexpected.
Who is calling the shots in Iraq? The Iraqi army and militias? If the answer is yes, that means Iran, whose position in Iraq gets stronger every day. Or is it the coalition? Apparently not according to a whole bunch of Iranian supported Iraqis.
Mr. Kerry is talking non-stop to Iran? Does any of this ever come up or does he negotiate as if the US is dealing with a single Iranian issue? I think we know the answer to that.
At the bottom line, though, ISIS seems to be staying put.
Who is calling the shots in Iraq? The Iraqi army and militias? If the answer is yes, that means Iran, whose position in Iraq gets stronger every day. Or is it the coalition? Apparently not according to a whole bunch of Iranian supported Iraqis.
Mr. Kerry is talking non-stop to Iran? Does any of this ever come up or does he negotiate as if the US is dealing with a single Iranian issue? I think we know the answer to that.
At the bottom line, though, ISIS seems to be staying put.
4
"Looks like a combination of chaos, lack of coordination and lack of intelligence."
Yep, your comment certainly does read just like that. Your second paragraph is particularly disoriented. You appear to object that the Iraqi government, through its armies and militias, is leading the effort to liberate Iraqi territory from non-state occupiers. Is there a problem with that?
Whose country is it, anyway? It's about time that Iraq set aside at least some of the intra-Islam rivalries and joined forces against an enemy of civilization, on their own turf, no less, but you seem to see it as all-proxy for the US, Israel, and Iran.
Yep, your comment certainly does read just like that. Your second paragraph is particularly disoriented. You appear to object that the Iraqi government, through its armies and militias, is leading the effort to liberate Iraqi territory from non-state occupiers. Is there a problem with that?
Whose country is it, anyway? It's about time that Iraq set aside at least some of the intra-Islam rivalries and joined forces against an enemy of civilization, on their own turf, no less, but you seem to see it as all-proxy for the US, Israel, and Iran.
Iraq has not set aside the intra-Islam rivalries and has joined forces with Iran and plays up to the coalition when it is needed.
This has nothing to do with Israel, which you read into my address, assuming that this pertains to any comment I make, but it certainly has to do with the US and Iran.
So I am not that sure who is disoriented here in terms of comments, but this does not change the fact that the forces fighting ISIS cannot get their act together and never will be able to do so.
This has nothing to do with Israel, which you read into my address, assuming that this pertains to any comment I make, but it certainly has to do with the US and Iran.
So I am not that sure who is disoriented here in terms of comments, but this does not change the fact that the forces fighting ISIS cannot get their act together and never will be able to do so.
I think we should just wish both sides good luck. Another mess allowed by Obama's grand pro-Iran strategy. Let him continue to bully Israel though, which he apparently views as the main problem in the Middle East, despite the war in Syria, the new war in Yemen, the ISIS brutality in Iraq, and the terrorist attacks elsewhere.
3
With a name like yours, one would expect to see something of the kind reflected in the comments. If Obama has a pro-Iran strategy, then it would be odd to point to it as the reason for Shiite militias withdrawing from the fight against ISIS, since Iran is governed by a Shiite faction itself. Also, do you have any information about Israel's contribution to the fight, and how many troops it withdrew from it as a result of our "bullying"?
3
We finally have an Iraq strategy to unite Shia and Sunni.
1
Good riddance to the Shiite militias that leave. If Iraq had any useful central government all of the militias would be disarmed.
2
We've been humiliated enough in Iraq in the past years. Time to get advisors and special forces outa there, now.
31
Humiliated? How can a venal country that measures everything by the dollar feel humiliated? We have no shame when it comes to our "interests."
Can the American government offer any hard-core proof, that the latest bombing efforts in Iraq and Syria have made a worthwhile difference to justify more destruction and death? It is obvious that this conflict is without end and since WWII, it has been known that bombing alone won't change anything. Now that we are being asked to stop by those with the most to loose or gain, we need to face the facts. Stop this madness.
122
Didn't NATO solve the conflict in Kosovo with exclusively air support?
Regardless your point is moot since it's not "airstrikes alone". The Iraqi army has 20, 000 active soldiers on the ground.
Regardless your point is moot since it's not "airstrikes alone". The Iraqi army has 20, 000 active soldiers on the ground.
1
"Didn't NATO solve the conflict in Kosovo with exclusively air support?"
Didn't we loose war in Vietnam with overwhelming air support? Every conflict is different.
Didn't we loose war in Vietnam with overwhelming air support? Every conflict is different.
Our operations on the ground have ALWAYS made things there worse. We need to get out completely and stay out.
1
They hate us more than ISIS/Daesh? Fine; not worrying about hitting them during bomb runs will simplify the job.
See, this is the kind of attitude that gives America its unassailable moral authority: if you dislike us because of things we've done, our high ideals demand that you die. Just like the Bible says: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and your life for an opinion.
The best case yet for not sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. Sorry for the double negative, but there is nothing positive about our military strategy and tactics in the Middle East. We tend to make a big mess of things wherever we go.
70
Mr. Independent
It's thoughts like yours that got us where we are today. The mess, as you so aptly described it was caused by Carter and Clinton for not following through. Read up on history and look at the chronological order as watered down to where it is today. Bush could have done things better to right the wrongs, but he didn't cause it. Obama (who I didn't vote for....twice) isn't capable of correcting much of anything.
It's thoughts like yours that got us where we are today. The mess, as you so aptly described it was caused by Carter and Clinton for not following through. Read up on history and look at the chronological order as watered down to where it is today. Bush could have done things better to right the wrongs, but he didn't cause it. Obama (who I didn't vote for....twice) isn't capable of correcting much of anything.
Don't apologize. Not a double negative in the grammatical sense at all, and the rest of your succinct comment is spot-on.
2
American soldiers get killed in American airstrikes. We still fight.
1
Sounds like a great reason to rethink the strategy, wouldn't you say?
1
At first Iraqi leader asked and insisted US provide air support, according to US news media. Now the message on the ground indicates US air power is not wanted because it is too dangerous for them. Which is it? Please be more accurate with your news reporting. And I can not imagine this could be both being right. Am I right?
Yeah sure Iran could have some influence with their loyalist. But if Iraqi's are being bombed at and supplies are going to ISIL, I would have beef with that too.
Yeah sure Iran could have some influence with their loyalist. But if Iraqi's are being bombed at and supplies are going to ISIL, I would have beef with that too.
We were better off when the region was governed by Hussein, Assad, Gaddafi, etc. It will be interesting in the future to learn how these despots controlled their populace. Certainly, democracy isn't working, and we didn't pay much attention to the methods those people used before their takedown. I suspect that they killed fewer of their people than the present despots.
16
I could not agree more! Saddam Hussein was the cork keeping the genie, or rather, a thousand genies inside the proverbial bottle. The situation there really is hopeless.
"learn how these despots controlled their populace"
Very simple! They knew their people. We do not!
Very simple! They knew their people. We do not!
This pretty much explains the Middle East in a nutshell, and is a glaring example of why the US should not be involved.
252
March 26, 2015
One word - global.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
One word - global.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
1
Nutshell is an excellent choice of words.
1
No rush. According to their plans they'll be coming to a neighborhood near you.
President Obama clearly has no credibility around the globe. He and Hillary did so much damage to US stature it will take decades to repair. Surely wacko liberals will blame Yemen, Syria, ISIS and Libya on Bush because they cannot accept that Obama has been president for 6 years and that Hillary was a unmitigated disaster as Secretary of State.
6
Good handle. Cause you are UNreal. This mess starts and ends at the foot of Bush. He unleashed the fire and it has spun out of control. If you think this is Obama or H. Clinton's fault you are looking at the situation with blinders on.
65
Bush and the neocons lit the fuse and destabilized the Middle East. They are to blame for the mess.
79
I am not really interested in US politics but, considering facts,
G W Bush was actually the worse president in the history of the USA. He took the lead of a powerfull and respected country, started two wars , one of them totally unjustified, with the result of two military humiliations and the lost of her stand in the world. Not mentioning Abu Grahim, Gitmo, waterboarding et al...
G W Bush was actually the worse president in the history of the USA. He took the lead of a powerfull and respected country, started two wars , one of them totally unjustified, with the result of two military humiliations and the lost of her stand in the world. Not mentioning Abu Grahim, Gitmo, waterboarding et al...
51
Hey, militia guys - There might be 'i's in 'Shiite', but there's no 'i' in 'Teamwork'!
Sometimes I think it's great to be an old man, just because I'm not going to have to put up with reading about this kind of blood-boiling idiocy for much longer.
Sometimes I think it's great to be an old man, just because I'm not going to have to put up with reading about this kind of blood-boiling idiocy for much longer.
25
I'm with you brother.
I'm on the north side of sixty-five too, but I remind you that living remains preferable to the alternative.
1
I agree with them. Bring all US forces home. Let them figure it out themselves.
92
I never thought I'd find a major point of agreement with any Shiite militia leaders, but this just proves one should never use the term never. They are right, we have no business there and should remove ourselves as fast as our jets can carry us.
17
And declare "Sorry folks, Mission went awry!"
In the face of death, you will compromise. Just ask our Founding Fathers. The US Constitution is a kludge, for fear of a second invasion by a superpower, be it the British or the French, everyone had to compromise. Force the Iraqi's to mature and don't the let the US take the lead.
5
so much for "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
14
Or the friend of my friend is my friend.
3
In the MIddle East, the rule is "everyone is your enemy."
29
There are no "friends" in the middle east.
4
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
10
Bring all U.S. troops in the Middle East home. This is not our war.
161
And please pick one name for these clowns. I'm so tired of being presented with three in ever other sentance. We get it, flip a quarter and pick one, please.
2
You want arm manufacturers beg in the streets?
1
Why. yes, Mr. Dincer, I do.
This what you get when you "work" with Iran. Obama is on a fool's errand
regarding his policies toward Iran. Nothing he has done has worked and
he is about to hand Iran a nuclear weapon. Additionally he has severely
damaged our relations with our supposed allies in the area: Israel, Saudi
Arabia, Jordan and Egypt. They now have more in common with each other
than they do with us. What a fiasco.
regarding his policies toward Iran. Nothing he has done has worked and
he is about to hand Iran a nuclear weapon. Additionally he has severely
damaged our relations with our supposed allies in the area: Israel, Saudi
Arabia, Jordan and Egypt. They now have more in common with each other
than they do with us. What a fiasco.
15
It is extremely naive of us to think they (Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians, GCC countries) ever had more in common with us than with each other. They have shown us repeatedly that all the skyscrapers, indoor ski slopes and luxury shopping malls, American universities and museums mean NOTHING when they have to choose between members of their faith and us. That kind of thinking is exactly what got us in this mess. If I were in the US government I would be just as watchful about our so called "allies" as with our adversaries.
Back in the 80s when the US imposed sanctions against Iran all one had to do was walk along the Dubai creek to see dhows groaning with all kinds of American goods, cars to candy. So much for cooperation with the US sanctions.
Back in the 80s when the US imposed sanctions against Iran all one had to do was walk along the Dubai creek to see dhows groaning with all kinds of American goods, cars to candy. So much for cooperation with the US sanctions.
5
You are sadly wrong. Iran is the only country that may be able to eventually help bring about stabillity in the region. If you think Saudi Arabia has been a trustworthy ally, you know nothing of the region. It may fit your narrative to blame Obama, but it is baseless.
77
Obama had no interest in the Iranian Tikrit offensive. That's on the Iraqi government. Obama isn't about to hand Iraq a nuclear weapon. That's a fiction of a Netanyahu who is desperate for us to have a war with Iran. Who, by the way is the one who is threatening US Israeli relations.
30
The US needs to get out of this conflict. It is a no win situtation for the US.
127
If only that were true. ISIS is using the Middle East only as a staging area for what it intends will be a holy war against the West. They are gaining recruits, massive funding from oil sales and patrons, weapons from those they conquer and other states supportive of their destructive intent.
ISIS ultimate target is, simply, us. They proclaim that almost daily. We can't wash our hands of their Mideast turmoil. If we do, they will, very soon, very literally, wash their hands in our blood.