"Up to now, I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher" I am trying to figure out which part of this sentence makes the least sense, it's a close battle. :)
2
Two thoughts about Mr. Vecsey's lede. Hopefully Abu Dhabi FC-Energy Drink FC will shake out to be a much better rivalry (or derby, if you must) than Chivas USA-LA Galaxy turned out to be. They couldn't generate any ill will even sharing a stadium, a marked contrast to, say Inter-AC Milan, Roma--Lazio or, in the past, Juventus-Torino.
The other issue is the imbalance between MLS' Eastern and Western Conferences. Right now, NYCFC is atop the Conference with 5 points out of a possible 9, and harkens back two seasons to when Energy Drink FC won the Supporter's Shield with an anemic 59 points out of 102 on offer.
The other issue is the imbalance between MLS' Eastern and Western Conferences. Right now, NYCFC is atop the Conference with 5 points out of a possible 9, and harkens back two seasons to when Energy Drink FC won the Supporter's Shield with an anemic 59 points out of 102 on offer.
1
"MLS is trying to reach the highest levels of world soccer."
This expectation, as some comments have already stated, is fairly misguided. The MLS will never reach the highest levels, but that's not a problem. What it should seek is solid growth in presence and interest, which is occurring with expansion teams across the country, soccer-specific stadiums, fan groups, and attraction for big players, regardless of their career state. One example with which I have familiarity is the new USL Charlotte team - it rebranded itself from a Christian organization to a more widely-approachable club with fan interest in mind, building off strong interest in the sport by people and existing youth clubs in the area. They now have a plan to renovate an existing stadium to accommodate the team, in a growing downtown. Behind this project is the ultimate objective of MLS expansion.
What has existed within the United States is a collective of fans who love the sport as it exists globally and want it to develop more strongly as a competitive, professional game in their area. They watch the foreign leagues for the exciting players and matches, but they follow local teams as part of their community. When I go to Charleston Battery games, I don't expect to see world class, but I hope to see an environment where people gather around a common interest and passion to see athletes who feel the same and want to show that through solid performances. That, I think, is a reasonable expectation.
This expectation, as some comments have already stated, is fairly misguided. The MLS will never reach the highest levels, but that's not a problem. What it should seek is solid growth in presence and interest, which is occurring with expansion teams across the country, soccer-specific stadiums, fan groups, and attraction for big players, regardless of their career state. One example with which I have familiarity is the new USL Charlotte team - it rebranded itself from a Christian organization to a more widely-approachable club with fan interest in mind, building off strong interest in the sport by people and existing youth clubs in the area. They now have a plan to renovate an existing stadium to accommodate the team, in a growing downtown. Behind this project is the ultimate objective of MLS expansion.
What has existed within the United States is a collective of fans who love the sport as it exists globally and want it to develop more strongly as a competitive, professional game in their area. They watch the foreign leagues for the exciting players and matches, but they follow local teams as part of their community. When I go to Charleston Battery games, I don't expect to see world class, but I hope to see an environment where people gather around a common interest and passion to see athletes who feel the same and want to show that through solid performances. That, I think, is a reasonable expectation.
1
Excellent article. An enjoyable read.
I am excited to see all of these European stars come to the US, even if they are in their golden years. I hope & expect it will elevate the quality of play in the MLS. However, I'm also concerned that it will infect the MLS with the diving, faking, and hounding of the ref, that ruins the game for me & I suspect a lot of Americans.
I am excited to see all of these European stars come to the US, even if they are in their golden years. I hope & expect it will elevate the quality of play in the MLS. However, I'm also concerned that it will infect the MLS with the diving, faking, and hounding of the ref, that ruins the game for me & I suspect a lot of Americans.
1
@Erik: You must have missed the opener between NYCFC and Orlando City, in which no less than three cards for simulation went to Orlando City players. To think that MLS is in some way immune to diving and fakery is not based on reality.
2
You just came to the conclusion last week when watching Messi against Man City, that Messi is more than a goal scorer? Wow. I think you have not been watching too closely. He will end his career as leader in assists for both la liga and Champions League along with all time goal leader!
Messi is a complete player. Always has been.
Penalty box goal poacher desctubes some one else, not Messi
Messi is a complete player. Always has been.
Penalty box goal poacher desctubes some one else, not Messi
1
Very entertaining piece. I personally would reverse the classification of Gerard and Terry, so that John Terry is the ideal English sportsman, and Stevie G. is the anti-Terry.
Also, almost regardless of skill level, all derbies are fantastic, and if the MLS survives long enough, the NY derby has a chance to become world class.
Also, almost regardless of skill level, all derbies are fantastic, and if the MLS survives long enough, the NY derby has a chance to become world class.
@JP: Terry racially abused an opponent and, famously, forgot his own marriage while shagging the ex-girlfriend and baby momma of a teammate. If that's the "ideal English sportsman," well surely then the sun HAS set on the Empire.
1
You only have to beat the teams in your league. Usually. In most sports, that's enough to win the hearts of your fan base. Is college football or basketball as competent as professional? Yet they inspire passion. Maybe NY soccer teams will never win the hearts of those who compare them to World Cup finalists. But their job is to build a base among the rest of us. And truthfully, unless all you care about are the highlight shots, watching any game live is better than TV -- a medium utterly unsuited to its beauties.
1
This obsession with watching "the best" is completely asinine. Sporting events and fandom around the world prove that to be completely false.
Does the clasico draw the biggest crowds? Of course.
Does that mean we can't have a viable league with a sustainable model that is growing in the largest consumer market in the world? Of course not.
How does the NYCFC game vs Colorado provide any type of indication on the way the season will be played? How can you use that as an example?
What we are really fighting against is this notion in the United States that the if the product isn't "the best", it won't sell. This sport, above all others, has much more organized fan participation than any other. A huge part of the fan experience is sharing the experience through fan participation at bars, the games, chants, songs, supporter groups, basically a huge amount of support that other sports in this country do not benefit from.
The article you are citing in regards to the Flushing Meadow parks cite is just 1 solitary reporters opinion, and it is completely biased. The park hasn't been used properly in years. I go to the Maker's Faire and have been to the outlet stores nearby. The part of the park they are proposing is in a total state of disrepair and is not an area that is popular for people to hang out in.
Anyone who watches soccer globally will know that is patently false.
Does the clasico draw the biggest crowds? Of course.
Does that mean we can't have a viable league with a sustainable model that is growing in the largest consumer market in the world? Of course not.
How does the NYCFC game vs Colorado provide any type of indication on the way the season will be played? How can you use that as an example?
What we are really fighting against is this notion in the United States that the if the product isn't "the best", it won't sell. This sport, above all others, has much more organized fan participation than any other. A huge part of the fan experience is sharing the experience through fan participation at bars, the games, chants, songs, supporter groups, basically a huge amount of support that other sports in this country do not benefit from.
The article you are citing in regards to the Flushing Meadow parks cite is just 1 solitary reporters opinion, and it is completely biased. The park hasn't been used properly in years. I go to the Maker's Faire and have been to the outlet stores nearby. The part of the park they are proposing is in a total state of disrepair and is not an area that is popular for people to hang out in.
Anyone who watches soccer globally will know that is patently false.
1
An excellent article! Like Mr. Vecsey, I've been watching pro soccer on US soil from the get-go. The first pro soccer I saw was a double header in Yankee Stadium in 1968 when I was twelve: the first game involved the NY Generals, the second game was Cali, Colombia, versus Santos of Brazil, with Pele. Awesome. In the following years I went to Cosmos games at Yankee Stadium, Hofstra Stadium, Downing Stadium, and Giants Stadium. I went to MetroStars games. I played in the Cosmopolitan League. I went to a NY Red Bulls game at RB Arena last October: suburban couples were showing up in Red Bulls shirts, scarves and hats! To watch a game live is to see the energy and effort of the players in a way that is not conveyed by TV. I live in Maine now, and am going to the Revs game this Saturday. MLS has come a long way and will continue to improve. Long live MLS! Go Revs!
2
Club soccer in the smaller countries of Europe is still immensely popular despite it not matching up to the best soccer on television. The two are not incompatible––you can watch Ronaldo and Messi on TV and go out and cheer for your local team. Those not willing to cheer on their local MLS team because it is not at the level of Bayern Munich are giving into the tyranny of an international media market. Owners who try to flog off has-been foreigners are missing the point too. Only a devoted local following with local homegrown talent can move MLS forward. Didn't I just read an article about how the Yankees needed more stars developed from their farm team?
3
Wow George, stunning comments on Messi. Just stunning. As for the place of MLS in the worlds game, I would put it realistically somewhere around 20th in terms of technical acumen and ability of coaches and players throughout the league. China is actually a rising star right now, check out Tom Byer and what he has been doing in Asia, China has been recruiting young European talent instead of aging stars to build their league. Paying large cash for talent.
The competition for the consumer dollar is fierce, and Al-Jazeera/Bein is fighting hard for that place. They are broadcasting a lot of games from everywhere. It is easy to find good footy day or night now. MLS needs to step up the level of play to compete.
The competition for the consumer dollar is fierce, and Al-Jazeera/Bein is fighting hard for that place. They are broadcasting a lot of games from everywhere. It is easy to find good footy day or night now. MLS needs to step up the level of play to compete.
1
Would NYCFC not be nicknamed the "Citizens," just like Man City?
As a football fanatic and collegiate player, let me tell you where the real problem lies for the MLS. I agree there is certainly a problem with the way the game is presented by the networks and commentators - Gus Johnson is abysmal and I despise Alexei Lalas more than anything - the main reason the league doesn't get it's due is because the quality of the players and coaching is just lacking. And we can sit here and make excuses and say that the league is young and it will come with time but how long have we had a national team program? How long have we had a youth soccer system in place? Youth development in this country needs major reform, as Jurgen Klinsman himself has said. The way we teach the game to the teens who are playing at the highest level is a completely different style than what the "major" European nations are being taught. This, obviously, wouldn't be a problem if we had a decent league and were performing well as a national team, but we lost to Denmark today because of a Bendtner hat-trick... C'mon.
When the next generation of player understands how to properly play the game - meaning not just beefing up and playing an overly-physical style with no grasp for complex tactics - then the MLS will start to make strides forward. Adding teams and washed-up players doesn't make the league great; it makes it a mockery.
As a football fanatic and collegiate player, let me tell you where the real problem lies for the MLS. I agree there is certainly a problem with the way the game is presented by the networks and commentators - Gus Johnson is abysmal and I despise Alexei Lalas more than anything - the main reason the league doesn't get it's due is because the quality of the players and coaching is just lacking. And we can sit here and make excuses and say that the league is young and it will come with time but how long have we had a national team program? How long have we had a youth soccer system in place? Youth development in this country needs major reform, as Jurgen Klinsman himself has said. The way we teach the game to the teens who are playing at the highest level is a completely different style than what the "major" European nations are being taught. This, obviously, wouldn't be a problem if we had a decent league and were performing well as a national team, but we lost to Denmark today because of a Bendtner hat-trick... C'mon.
When the next generation of player understands how to properly play the game - meaning not just beefing up and playing an overly-physical style with no grasp for complex tactics - then the MLS will start to make strides forward. Adding teams and washed-up players doesn't make the league great; it makes it a mockery.
2
The blending of soccer success and financial success is not easy. The US fan is too sophisticated and will soon want to purchase the real mccoy over the importation of aging stars. I like the start of cyclical player movement from the US to Europe letting our younger talent succeed or bust in Europe and elsewhere and then returning at the least with a different / better work ethic. Names like Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, and at a lesser degree Shea, Johnson, Keller, et al. Export and then import our home grown players!
totally agree about Gus Johnson. And yeah, giving up a hat-trick to Bendtner (!) says alot about USMNT.
A nickname for NYCFC? How about what they represent: Abu Dhabi/Manchester/Melbourne/New York. Sort of like the Johnny Cash travelogue "I've Been Everywhere, Man..."
2
The best players in any sport are always recognized. The baseball, football, basketball and hockey players you mentioned are the best in the world they happen to play in North America. The best soccer players unfortunately do not all play in MLS, still everyone knew who Beckham was and where he played and same for Henry and even Donovan. Following the MLS and knowing it's players will have to be combined with knowing all the other great players around the world playing, but it can be done. Think Global, Vote Local, or something like that.
USA soccer needs another 50 years before it can be comparable to the majority of overseas leagues. Not a bad thing, just not what we want to hear. But it is growing by leaps and bounds in both quality and popularity. But for most us, it is our grandchildren who will really experience the beautiful game here.
1
8th or 10th best league in the world? I doubt MLS is in the top 10. Top 20 okay. Top 15 possibly. Maybe when we can beat Mexican league teams regularly, we can start to think of ourselves more highly.
3
Growing up without cable in Queens during the 90's limited my access to the game to the occasional Serie A match on a RAI rebroadcast on PBS or the Mexican league on the Spanish channels. Of course the world cup came along every four years, but that one month was far too little to meet the needs of an avid fan of the game.
The best times were when I would happily pay $20-$40 cover charge to watch qualifiers and Copa Libertadores matches in sketchy bars/restaurants in Queens or Manhattan along with hundreds of people. These places packed their establishments with as many people as possible. If I came early, I could get a seat, but It was no problem to sit in the storage basement, or stand for hours without air conditioning in situations that were similar to that of a crowded train. as long as I got in. Demand was so high people would get turned away at the door. Windows would be dressed in blackout drapes to keep the unfortunate latecomers from viewing from the outside and attracting the interest of law enforcement to the flagrant disregard of fire codes. This was only 10-15 years ago in many parts of NYC.
The demand has been there for a long time, but only recently have major broadcasters woken up to it, to the benefit of all. I'm amazed how far the access to the game has come. We are all very fortunate to be able to enjoy the game in the way we do now. Endless choices. Simply amazing.
The best times were when I would happily pay $20-$40 cover charge to watch qualifiers and Copa Libertadores matches in sketchy bars/restaurants in Queens or Manhattan along with hundreds of people. These places packed their establishments with as many people as possible. If I came early, I could get a seat, but It was no problem to sit in the storage basement, or stand for hours without air conditioning in situations that were similar to that of a crowded train. as long as I got in. Demand was so high people would get turned away at the door. Windows would be dressed in blackout drapes to keep the unfortunate latecomers from viewing from the outside and attracting the interest of law enforcement to the flagrant disregard of fire codes. This was only 10-15 years ago in many parts of NYC.
The demand has been there for a long time, but only recently have major broadcasters woken up to it, to the benefit of all. I'm amazed how far the access to the game has come. We are all very fortunate to be able to enjoy the game in the way we do now. Endless choices. Simply amazing.
1
Until MLS games are covered with the number of cameras used in European games, or MLB and the NFL, it won't get to the same level of popularity.
1
The MLS and its fans are both pathetic. Why would anyone ever choose to watch this inferior product, when the world's premier soccer leagues are easily available for viewing online or via satellite? The MLS will never be as good as the English, Spanish, German, French, Italian and UEFA Champions Leagues. Ever. Rooting for the MLS is like rooting for the Euroleague over the NBA, it's just silly.
1
I can relate to the excitement of the live experience, and that is its own reward. But to think that MLS is the 8th or 10th best league in the world on any metric other than live attendance is, as Nick Lowe's song put it, "Nutted By Reality."
1
As always, Vescey has captured some essential truths about the state of soccer in the USA. No only wish he had would have woven in a bit more on Sunday's RBNY match. While the team still has issues (DC left our defense largely untested and let us off the hook on the PK), the energy on the field and the result were worth a mention, especially in comparison to his observations about Saturday's NYCFC match. Although the temperature and some family commitments kept me from attending in person I think the fan base did the team proud as well. I am looking forward to an even stronger vibe for the "darby." See you there George! Alex Kress Section 128.
3
Fantastic article. The dichotomy of being an American Soccer fan. I have come to accept the tenuous straddling of both worlds - the best from Europe and supporting my own. It is like learning to love watching your kids' games and becoming passionate about it. Yes eventually the twain shall meet. Let's accept even the best South Americans go to Europe but their love and passion for the local teams still runs high!
I can recognize and name more Premier League referees than I can recognize NBA, MLB, NHL, and NFL players together.
I have been to Real and Red Bull games, and I must say that the product does not lag too far behind the quality of the world's top leagues. The entertainment value is there. And the officiating is equally flawed.
The soccer-specific venues help tremendously. As a Red Bull and Arsenal fan, I must reluctantly concede that NYCFC needs a soccer-specific stadium in which to lose every home game for the rest of eternity.
I have been to Real and Red Bull games, and I must say that the product does not lag too far behind the quality of the world's top leagues. The entertainment value is there. And the officiating is equally flawed.
The soccer-specific venues help tremendously. As a Red Bull and Arsenal fan, I must reluctantly concede that NYCFC needs a soccer-specific stadium in which to lose every home game for the rest of eternity.
3
I was excited by the new MLS season and Giovinco, Kaka and Villa in particular. Watching Chicago I saw Gio a little misused, still showing his quality in parts which he can't help but do, setting up a fine goal for Altidore. I saw similar with Kaka. This particular season is early but what's become more apparent is that the quality of coaching holds MLS back more than anything. I don't know if MLS has the power to attract talented managers from abroad, or to nourish their own, but for the time being tactically uninspired pure "motivators" impede MLS in footballing terms.
As a soccer fan in my mid-40s who remembers the halcyon days of NASL and the New York Cosmos, allow me to offer a slightly different thought on the future of MLS.
Cable television allows soccer-aficionados weekly to watch some of the sport's top talent from England, Spain, Italy and Germany. Perhaps at no other time is the fan base for soccer in the U.S. better educated not only about the game's top talent, but also its finer points.
As MLS grows, is this not a good thing? Sure it raises expectations among fans, but also shortens the learning curve about the game, or removes it totally. The need to educate viewers about what they're watching is far less than perhaps even a decade ago. And if fans have greater expectations for what they see on the field, would that not encourage owners to give them a better product?
I was fortunate to be at the NYCFC home opener, and the atmosphere in a baseball stadium in mid-March (it was a bit chilly) was as good as I have seen in this town. Hopefully the local sports media will give the team its due and realize that a sports evolution is taking place right under their noses.
Cable television allows soccer-aficionados weekly to watch some of the sport's top talent from England, Spain, Italy and Germany. Perhaps at no other time is the fan base for soccer in the U.S. better educated not only about the game's top talent, but also its finer points.
As MLS grows, is this not a good thing? Sure it raises expectations among fans, but also shortens the learning curve about the game, or removes it totally. The need to educate viewers about what they're watching is far less than perhaps even a decade ago. And if fans have greater expectations for what they see on the field, would that not encourage owners to give them a better product?
I was fortunate to be at the NYCFC home opener, and the atmosphere in a baseball stadium in mid-March (it was a bit chilly) was as good as I have seen in this town. Hopefully the local sports media will give the team its due and realize that a sports evolution is taking place right under their noses.
3
Great sports leagues are made, not born. It takes generation after generation of good players in a sport to develop the skills and the training regimen that creates superstars.
So while I'd like to see MLS become as big a deal as Premier League, for now I'll just be satisfied with MLS players representing the United States in internationals and acquit themselves well. When stars like Landon Donovan are coming out of a US-centric system, the world will take notice.
So while I'd like to see MLS become as big a deal as Premier League, for now I'll just be satisfied with MLS players representing the United States in internationals and acquit themselves well. When stars like Landon Donovan are coming out of a US-centric system, the world will take notice.
1
Yes, MLS is growing and the games are becoming entertaining, but as a life long soccer fan and (until only a few years ago) amateur player, I still don't understand the way we broadcast soccer in America. Listening the TV broadcast is, I say, painful. In order to make soccer really successful TV, it has to learn the way other countries broadcast and talk during the soccer games, and forget telling as about what happens to the grandmother, etc. Please start the play-by-play broadcast and comment about the tactics and strategy of the game.
8
I want to suggest that the NYC FC nickname should be "The BEARS".
So that we would have the Bulls and the Bears.
I think it is fitting.
So that we would have the Bulls and the Bears.
I think it is fitting.
1
I too watched the first league game between San Jose and DC (20 years ago?).
I too was at Giants Stadium to watch Caricola's own goal (sitting behind that goal, as a matter of fact) and feel that punch to the gut.
I attended many a game in an empty Giants Stadium.
But I am so excited about the undeniable growth MLS has shown in recent years. The quality of play has improved. Expectations are growing. The National Team has also shown growth.
And today's wonderful news: a new team in Minnesota.
Our sport is poised for wonderful growth in the short and long term.
I too was at Giants Stadium to watch Caricola's own goal (sitting behind that goal, as a matter of fact) and feel that punch to the gut.
I attended many a game in an empty Giants Stadium.
But I am so excited about the undeniable growth MLS has shown in recent years. The quality of play has improved. Expectations are growing. The National Team has also shown growth.
And today's wonderful news: a new team in Minnesota.
Our sport is poised for wonderful growth in the short and long term.
3
Like one or two others fans in the US need to stop comparing MLS with well established European leagues in England, Germany and Spain etc. There is no way they can compare at those levels. However, drop down a league or two in these countries and the standard of football (yes football) is about the same. Unfortunately the US doesn't have a hundred years of development behind them where the league system is built on 3-4 divisions fighting in promotion and relegation battles. This is what develops players from the lower leagues into Premier League players for instance and also improves the quality of football. The US are trying to run before they can walk by putting together one league and basing it upon the finest leagues of Europe. The MLS needs another league or two say Div 1 and 2 and allow American kids to develop. Additionally, playing through the Summer is simply ridiculous. Football is way too athletic for Summer temperatures.
2
There was a recent story in the NYT about the origins of the words football and soccer (yes soccer). You should look it up.
1
NYT,
Please bring back George, the patron saint of American soccer writers.
We really miss George and Jack Bell.
I think that if USA locals want to support MLS have at it. Good on 'ya.
I live in SF so it is rare for me (twice in 20 years @ Buck Shaw) to drive 120 miles R/T to watch the Earthquakes play at home. If there was a team in SF, I would go to matches.
I try and watch a few MLS matches on TV but with a plethora of world class leagues to watch from one's home it is extremely trying to watch the inferior technical ability and tactical acumen of most MLS sides.
The best players in the world will always use MLS as a paycheck to retirement as they do, Henry, Beckham, Keane, Lampard, Villa, Gerrard, Donadoni, Mattheus, et al.
IMHO, MLS will never, ever rival the top leagues in Europe, unless of course the leagues over there go bankrupt. Then there's a chance, the best players will come over here in their prime as long as MLS has the funds.
Additionally, I disagree with George's statement that "....Logan and Garber have done just about everything right."
And to his statement "...Up to now, I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher — but last week Messi dodged and darted, began plays, Steve Nash without the hands."
Messi has been doing it ALL since he came into Barca's side.
Simply he's the best I have ever seen.
Get Bein Sport, George!
Please bring back George, the patron saint of American soccer writers.
We really miss George and Jack Bell.
I think that if USA locals want to support MLS have at it. Good on 'ya.
I live in SF so it is rare for me (twice in 20 years @ Buck Shaw) to drive 120 miles R/T to watch the Earthquakes play at home. If there was a team in SF, I would go to matches.
I try and watch a few MLS matches on TV but with a plethora of world class leagues to watch from one's home it is extremely trying to watch the inferior technical ability and tactical acumen of most MLS sides.
The best players in the world will always use MLS as a paycheck to retirement as they do, Henry, Beckham, Keane, Lampard, Villa, Gerrard, Donadoni, Mattheus, et al.
IMHO, MLS will never, ever rival the top leagues in Europe, unless of course the leagues over there go bankrupt. Then there's a chance, the best players will come over here in their prime as long as MLS has the funds.
Additionally, I disagree with George's statement that "....Logan and Garber have done just about everything right."
And to his statement "...Up to now, I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher — but last week Messi dodged and darted, began plays, Steve Nash without the hands."
Messi has been doing it ALL since he came into Barca's side.
Simply he's the best I have ever seen.
Get Bein Sport, George!
5
We have a shot being a top league once young children are steered clear of dangerous American football, opt out of boring baseball and some of those kids stick with soccer.
3
I have been watching MLS since it started. Being a Brit, the game back home is much different from what it was when I left there in 1984. What I find comforting about the game here is that teams have started to create academies where young players can develop their skills under professional eyes. (Southampton in the EPL have shown how powerful that model can be.) So football is headed in the right direction. The importation of class players from around the world is also helping. Let's all hope that the game will develop to a point where MLS is must-see on telly too!
9
During that Classico the other day I had to close my eyes every time Suarez bared his teeth. What a set of choppers!
I have to admit that I just started watching Soccer (football) the past couple years. As an amateur couch manager, I can tell the difference in quality between the MLS and European Football. I hope the MLS can compete someday. However, I will enjoy the Saturday and Sunday on NBCSports as long as I can until I have to pay for a Premier League Package (like NFL Sunday Ticket for Directv).
"three more than the old North American Soccer League attained, let it be noted"
And look how that turned out.
Will MLS be the first professional soccer league in the United States and Canada to introduce promotion and relegation? One can only hope they will.
And look how that turned out.
Will MLS be the first professional soccer league in the United States and Canada to introduce promotion and relegation? One can only hope they will.
1
I love George, but you can't agree with his claim that Logan and Garber have done everything right when they are steadfastly opposed to promotion and relegation. On one hand, they have "promoted" in a fashion by incorporating some of the better lower tier teams (Montreal Impact, Orlando City, Vancouver Whitecaps), but there needs to be a consequence for fielding an irredeemable eyesore. Chivas USA disappeared, and might never return, but some of the bottom feeders...
1
Never going to happen. I'm not sure why there is this subset of people here that can't let this go. Would it make the league more exciting and probably better over the long term? Yes. But there is no way any investors are going to pump millions into a franchise, and that's what MLS and all professional US sports offer, and then turn around and compete at a lower level for a fraction of the revenue.
Let it go.
Let it go.
2
It is definitely time to take MLS seriously. Now in it's 20th year, the league boasts more talent than it has ever had and it is keeping a lot of its best American players or luring them back from Europe with the promise of a big paycheck and lots of playing time. MLS clubs have built or are building academies in which they are developing players for their senior team. I began watching the league in 1996 when I lived in DC and was able to see those early DC United teams which dominated the league in the first few years. The quality of the league has improved significantly since then and we now have soccer specific stadiums which create an exciting and attractive atmosphere on game day. All of the macro trends in this country point to continued growth and success for MLS. The kids who grew up playing soccer in the US in the 80s and 90s are now taking their kids to MLS games and a generational foundation of committed fans is being built. The demographics of the MLS fan base are surely being watched by the NFL enviously. NY Giants games are like attending an AARP meeting. I am going to see NYCFC play this Saturday with my son and I can't wait to be part of the experience. Anyone who can't see the league is becoming an integral part of the American sports culture is simply unwilling to see the truth.
8
Dearest FingersCrossed,
I will consider taking MLS seriously when it plays FOOTBALL and learns the etiquette and the plays the rest of the world knows and loves.
I will take it more seriously when the coaches and players conform to Europe, Africa, Asia, central and South America in comportment and style-in short when MLS players and coaches have some class on and off the pitch.
I will consider taking MLS seriously when it plays FOOTBALL and learns the etiquette and the plays the rest of the world knows and loves.
I will take it more seriously when the coaches and players conform to Europe, Africa, Asia, central and South America in comportment and style-in short when MLS players and coaches have some class on and off the pitch.
I read through this article and I just have to comment on a couple of things the writer has sald. Anyone who has, up to now, "resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher" simply has never seen him play or doesn't know what a finisher is.
Also, I don't want to disparage a league that has made enormous progress (I remember cringing at the quality of play of the MLS when it was born, thinking that the teams would not even be able to compete at the second or third tier leagues in countries with a great soccer tradition. The MLS has made enormous strides since then, but the 8th or 10th best league in the world?! In what world would that be?! Even if you only counted the European leagues you would not be able to count the MLS as the 8th or even 10th best in the world. England, France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Portugal, Spain all have leagues that are better than the MLS, and I would certainly argue that smaller soccer nations like Romania, Poland, Greece, etc. do as well, just on account of the tradition that is simply absent in the US. Once you add south and central American (not to mention African) countries, is that you realize how far from the top the MLS is.
Also, I don't want to disparage a league that has made enormous progress (I remember cringing at the quality of play of the MLS when it was born, thinking that the teams would not even be able to compete at the second or third tier leagues in countries with a great soccer tradition. The MLS has made enormous strides since then, but the 8th or 10th best league in the world?! In what world would that be?! Even if you only counted the European leagues you would not be able to count the MLS as the 8th or even 10th best in the world. England, France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Portugal, Spain all have leagues that are better than the MLS, and I would certainly argue that smaller soccer nations like Romania, Poland, Greece, etc. do as well, just on account of the tradition that is simply absent in the US. Once you add south and central American (not to mention African) countries, is that you realize how far from the top the MLS is.
3
There IS one metric in which MLS is the eighth or 10th best league in the world, and that is in terms of attendance. But willingness to fill stadia in the US and Canada is no measure of on the field quality. Proof positive? 62000+ watching the first ever match for both Orlando City and NYCFC, a game with more yellow cards for simulation than goals, and an absolutely brutal (and deserved) red card for Aurelien Collin.
Honestly, I think some MLS teams would do OK in European second divisions, but I think that the pace of play in the 2 Bundesliga and the English Championship would leave most MLS sides gasping for air.
In fact, you can't even call it the best league in CONCACAF until a team wins the CCL. The Montreal Impact are in with a chance, with a good first leg lead over Alajuelense in the semifinal. Ironically, Montreal was the worst team in the Eastern Conference last year (and might have been relegation bait, had it existed), but only earned entry into the CCL by dint of winning the Canada Cup, not for anything done in MLS.
Honestly, I think some MLS teams would do OK in European second divisions, but I think that the pace of play in the 2 Bundesliga and the English Championship would leave most MLS sides gasping for air.
In fact, you can't even call it the best league in CONCACAF until a team wins the CCL. The Montreal Impact are in with a chance, with a good first leg lead over Alajuelense in the semifinal. Ironically, Montreal was the worst team in the Eastern Conference last year (and might have been relegation bait, had it existed), but only earned entry into the CCL by dint of winning the Canada Cup, not for anything done in MLS.
2
Mr. Vecsey, I realize the point of your story was to look beyond what’s right before your eyes, but I don’t think you even quite accomplished that.
Not only can’t MLS live up to the glory of today’s Barcelona, Barcelona’s own league, Spain’s La Liga, can’t live up to the glory of Barcelona. And if you set the threshold for soccer relevance at that Manchester United-Liverpool match, even most of the English Premier League doesn’t hold up, considering that those two teams are among the third of the league that has any hope at any time of competing for a Champions League spot, let alone a Premier League title. (And you could have mentioned that Steven Gerrard will be following Frank Lampard to the states in July.)
The one great thing MLS has going for it is the one great thing the other North American sports leagues (with the qualified exception of the MLB) have going for them—some real parity. Every MLS team has some hope to compete for championships some day with a bit of luck of good management. Most teams in European football have no hope to compete for domestic league championships unless they get bought by an Arab sheikh or a Russian oligarch.
That’s not to say MLS is without its own issues. The watering down of the playoff field and the foot-dragging on player pay are the big ones. Those 0-0 draws last weekend don’t help either.
Not only can’t MLS live up to the glory of today’s Barcelona, Barcelona’s own league, Spain’s La Liga, can’t live up to the glory of Barcelona. And if you set the threshold for soccer relevance at that Manchester United-Liverpool match, even most of the English Premier League doesn’t hold up, considering that those two teams are among the third of the league that has any hope at any time of competing for a Champions League spot, let alone a Premier League title. (And you could have mentioned that Steven Gerrard will be following Frank Lampard to the states in July.)
The one great thing MLS has going for it is the one great thing the other North American sports leagues (with the qualified exception of the MLB) have going for them—some real parity. Every MLS team has some hope to compete for championships some day with a bit of luck of good management. Most teams in European football have no hope to compete for domestic league championships unless they get bought by an Arab sheikh or a Russian oligarch.
That’s not to say MLS is without its own issues. The watering down of the playoff field and the foot-dragging on player pay are the big ones. Those 0-0 draws last weekend don’t help either.
4
Parity? You do know that LA has won MLS Cup 3 out of the last four years, right?
1
I too was at both the Metrostars first game and at NYCFC's opener at Yankee Stadium. Soccer is in a very different place in American sports today. While one can argue when the tipping point was reached, we are there. The prevailing demographics of the first Metrostars game was families with young soccer players and ethnic fans (principally Hispanic). At the NYCFC opener, there were throngs of 20 and 30 somethings in groups of 2-6. Here is the backbone of American soccer fans in the years to come and baseball's worst nightmare. Now if we could only get a soccer stadium as accessible to Manhattan as Yankee Stadium we would be set.
10
"I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players".
I have resisted the talk that George Vecsey knows anything about soccer
I have resisted the talk that George Vecsey knows anything about soccer
8
"How do we put that in context with our North American league, perhaps the eighth- or 10th-best league in the world?" Easy. By remembering the context from which we have emerged - that of no tier 1 pro league and no World Cup appearances for some 40 years.
2
Soccer is coming to U. S. Both football and baseball are on the way out. Once tv audiences start to shrink, it will be a decision corporate america will quickly cakculate. Watch for US soccer teams be bought by football and baseball owners.
3
Jake D, get real. Baseball attendance was 73,739,622 in 2014,. I doubt that soccer will be matching those figures anytime soon.In addition, about 50 million people go to college footfall games each weekend. Soccer has been coming to the US since the 1970s, and the best players still go to Europe. Soccer will continue to be a minor sport in the US for the foreseeable future.
In terms of play - MLS is about the level of the Mexican league. People in China watch the NBA even though they have their own league. Why? Quality. It's that simple.
3
I'm tired of people trying to shove soccer down our throats. Baseball is the great American game and always we be. Go Cardinals in 2015 (the official team of the good part of Illinois). I will give the sport of soccer one small bit of thanks, though. The first time we were in Italy, we needed to use the bathroom The attendants were transfixed by a soccer game on a black and white television (probably a riveting scoreless tie). Nobody was paying them for the bathroom as they weren't paying attention, so neither did we. At least soccer saved us some lira.
1
Ron,
The World Series last rear was watched by average 12 million viewers versus a whopping 26 million that watched Germany v Argentina finals. A record 31 million watched USA v Portugal last summer. Lionel messi is the 8th most famous athlete in USA as per ESPN opinion polls. Your comment is an anachronism at best.
The World Series last rear was watched by average 12 million viewers versus a whopping 26 million that watched Germany v Argentina finals. A record 31 million watched USA v Portugal last summer. Lionel messi is the 8th most famous athlete in USA as per ESPN opinion polls. Your comment is an anachronism at best.
11
Baseball calls itself "America's Pastime" and its security people literally force people to stop walking or moving during the anthem. Talk about forcing yourself down people's throats.
The histories of gambling, and steroids, are your real legacy, and the reason, like lying about concussions, that MLB and NFL are on the wane. Nobody is forcing anything. Your sport's elders are taking care to open the door plenty wide for us.
We're just walking in.
p.s. We just took over the House That Ruth Built, cuz the Yankees were smart enough to buy in. Nobody is forcing you to watch. Quit complaining.
The histories of gambling, and steroids, are your real legacy, and the reason, like lying about concussions, that MLB and NFL are on the wane. Nobody is forcing anything. Your sport's elders are taking care to open the door plenty wide for us.
We're just walking in.
p.s. We just took over the House That Ruth Built, cuz the Yankees were smart enough to buy in. Nobody is forcing you to watch. Quit complaining.
4
Soccer is the #1 sport in the world. And it is probably the #1 youth sport in the USA.
1
We should take it seriously because it is the best live soccer we can get in the US. It is a great experience for the fans. We all know that Red Bulls vs NYFC will not be ManU vs. Liverpool but we can appreciate the fun and excitement of something that is uniquely ours. I am looking forward to the Derby! Go Red Bulls!
1
I am one of the "working people" you speak of, using this park two, sometimes three times a week and I wholeheartedly disagree with your dismissal of a football stadium in Flushing Meadows Park. The stadium was to be placed at the periphery, over an algae covered retaining pool that covers many acres and is accessible to exactly no one. This fetid pool is itself surrounded by undifferentiated tarmac and has been left unimproved by our Parks department for fifty years, while the mighty hudson river park, jewel-like brooklyn bridge park, and Governors Island have seen billions of dollars in spending. Designed appropriately, the stadium could have transformed this poorly maintained park in an area of the City with countless football fans AND players. An agreement could have been struck with the team to fund improvements, adding trees, improving drainage, adding playground equipment, and generally cleaning up this park.
I encourage anyone to visit Flushing Meadows Park during different times of the day and different times of the year to get a taste of its general forlorness, sense of abandonment AND its incredible potential as a mecca for New Yorkers.
But it is idle talk to say the City should fund improvements to Flushing Meadows Park itself. It hasn't and, if the last eighty years are any evidence at all, it will not. If there is a viable partner who, in exchange for some unusable public space, will do what the city cannot, why rebuff it out of hand?
I encourage anyone to visit Flushing Meadows Park during different times of the day and different times of the year to get a taste of its general forlorness, sense of abandonment AND its incredible potential as a mecca for New Yorkers.
But it is idle talk to say the City should fund improvements to Flushing Meadows Park itself. It hasn't and, if the last eighty years are any evidence at all, it will not. If there is a viable partner who, in exchange for some unusable public space, will do what the city cannot, why rebuff it out of hand?
12
Spot on BK! I couldn't agree more.
For those who don't know, it's a fact that NYCFC pledged $4-5 million in renovations to the soccer fields located in FMP as part of the stadium deal. As the man once said: "Look it up."
For those who don't know, it's a fact that NYCFC pledged $4-5 million in renovations to the soccer fields located in FMP as part of the stadium deal. As the man once said: "Look it up."
2
I think the problem for MLS is that young soccer fans constantly compare the league to Europe. Many are impatient with MLS' progress and some discredit the league for being inferior to the big four (EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga). The ease of access to viewing the best games around the world has, I think, spoiled young fans. They did not experience the giddy thrill of the original NASL. As a child in Long Island in the '70s, my only exposure to European soccer was from reruns of English and German games on WNET. The Cosmos brought soccer legends like Pele, Beckenbauer, and Chinaglia to New York, to my backyard. This is not to say that today's young fans do not appreciate the opportunity to see Henry and Villa, but they want more European stars and fast. MLS reaching its 20th season is a significant milestone. Unlike the old NASL, MLS has benefited from patience. My hope is that young fans will stick with MLS and not abandon it for European soccer on TV. Yes, there will continue to be growing pains for MLS, but it's in a great place. (By the way, though I'd like to believe that MLS is now "perhaps the eighth- or 10th-best league in the world," I think it is more accurate to say that it's in the top 20.)
4
I was at the opening of the beautiful new San Jose Earthquakes Avaya Stadium on Saturday. During the half I ran into Don Garber, MLS Commissioner in the stadium concourse. I took a selfie with him and he was very friendly. Try doing that with the NFL or MLB Commissioner! Security would have whisked me away! I'm a fan of the MLS as much for what it is as what it is not.
3
I get that the author is questioning the play in the MLS compared to other leagues around the world. However, that does not mean that there is not a place for the MLS in the US. If anything, we should feel fortunate that the NFL, NBA, NHL and the MLB happen to have the best teams in the world in their respective sports. I am a big fan of the NY Giants and the UConn Huskies Basketball team. I cannot afford the prices for tickets though. $150 for a NYG ticket. Add to that about $50 in parking. For that price, I can afford about 7-8 MLS tickets. It is thus ostensible that I have attended far more MLS games than NFL or College Basketball.
1
Things could be worse, you could be chicago fan
1
What we really need is a player like Suarez to bite some ears and play the bad guy! MLS needs to get crazy!
1
We already had Stoichkov.
But don't worry, I am positive Mario Balotelli will make his way to MLS within the next three years.
But don't worry, I am positive Mario Balotelli will make his way to MLS within the next three years.
From the article: "Up to now, I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher — but last week Messi dodged and darted, began plays..."
I wonder if the writer has really been following soccer the past 10-ish years. I can understand someone having a reasonable debate about whether Messi is among the very greatest players of the game, but to dismiss him as a 'finisher' beggars belief.
I wonder if the writer has really been following soccer the past 10-ish years. I can understand someone having a reasonable debate about whether Messi is among the very greatest players of the game, but to dismiss him as a 'finisher' beggars belief.
4
I want to see MLS succeed in ways that may not reach Premier League-levels pf popularity, but at least compete for ratings against hockey and basketball (baseball and football will always be well out of reach).
My biggest complaint though is the league's tendency to crib English "football-isms" -- using the term derby, and it's proper English pronunciation, for example. Other instances are the team names themselves -- NYC FC (New York City Football Club -- you mean like the Jets or the Giants?), Sporting KC, DC United. These are clumsy names rooted in English tradition, and make it seem like MLS is more of a copycat league instead of trying to forge its own identity. And that's what it truly needs to succeed: an identity that is uniquely American while still true to the sport. The scripted chanting, the omnipresent scarves, the fact the NYC FC has the same uniform as its parent club, Man City -- all of these things make MLS seem like Premier League, Jr. Football for poseur Americans.
My biggest complaint though is the league's tendency to crib English "football-isms" -- using the term derby, and it's proper English pronunciation, for example. Other instances are the team names themselves -- NYC FC (New York City Football Club -- you mean like the Jets or the Giants?), Sporting KC, DC United. These are clumsy names rooted in English tradition, and make it seem like MLS is more of a copycat league instead of trying to forge its own identity. And that's what it truly needs to succeed: an identity that is uniquely American while still true to the sport. The scripted chanting, the omnipresent scarves, the fact the NYC FC has the same uniform as its parent club, Man City -- all of these things make MLS seem like Premier League, Jr. Football for poseur Americans.
True, Unfortunately many new fans see the sport as primarily English and it follows that the EPL is arguable the best league (top 4 anyway) that we must import primarily English coaches, lingo, and styles of play. I say Please no! What do the Spaniards call the rivalry between Atletico and Real ? What are cross town rivalries called elsewhere in the soccer world? Derby's- I don't think so! Lets import the sport and keep English "As the common which divides the US and England."
1
Good grief. That Bergkamp goal was considerably more impressive than Suarez's.
2
agreed. Suarez's goal was nice, no doubt. But Bergkamp's goal was sublime. It's the kind of goal that you remember where you were when you saw it, it was so beautiful. I was on holiday in Mexico, watching in a restaurant, with the sunlight streaming in, a warm day it was.
These things take time. I'd guess that the quality of play in MLS is on the same trajectory of the Football League in England around the time of the First World War, albeit with better athletes.
The issues with concussions and other injuries in American football continue, there is a chance for the audience for American-based soccer to gain more of a foothold.
I do feel that finally having a New York team will be very beneficial for the support of MLS (provided that NYCFC builds a stadium near Yankee Stadium), as will teams in Orlando, Atlanta and Minneapolis. As more money from gate receipts flows in, the quality of player that the league can attract will improve.
The issues with concussions and other injuries in American football continue, there is a chance for the audience for American-based soccer to gain more of a foothold.
I do feel that finally having a New York team will be very beneficial for the support of MLS (provided that NYCFC builds a stadium near Yankee Stadium), as will teams in Orlando, Atlanta and Minneapolis. As more money from gate receipts flows in, the quality of player that the league can attract will improve.
1
The salary cap has a huge (unmentioned) impact on the quality of play. Put it this way, aside from Designated players ( maximum of three, whose salaries are mostly outside the cap), the entire squad of an MLS team, 20 players, makes on aggregate, the same salary as that earned by Bacary Sagna, a squad player for NYCFC's parent club, Abu Dhabi FC.
1
You cover futbol? And you missed the Clasico? SMH.
So the MLS is not as good as the EPL. Never knew that.
2
Yes! Wonderful story. No dumbing it down here. Indeed, time is on the MLS' side. And American fans are now starting to catch up in soccer knowledge. I just wish our American television and print, online reporting coverage was on par. When fans know more about the game than the announcers that's a big problem. When local sports hardly covers the sport, that's a problem. When sports magazine also dont cover it or do a poor job, that's a problem for the sport here in the U.S. Sports here are tied to our media. Our media is the thing that needs to catch up! The fans are already there.
5
Mr. Vecsey -- It would, of course, be wonderful if local fans were passionate about their derby sometime in the future. But that future won't start until there is no relationship between the words "Red Bull" and the team stuck in a beautiful (but difficult to visit) stadium somewhere in the swamps of Jersey. This has nothing to do with the nascent loyalties of NYCFC fans, but corporate royalty in Austria who show the same sensitivity to those of us in the New World as King George III once did. MLS needs to give Salzburg the same treatment as our colonial forebearers if it wants something that is more than a "derby" in name.
1
Brandon, I agree with your stance on the fans and owners but somewhat disagree with you saying Red Bull Arena is hard to get to. It took me only an hour to get from Brooklyn to the stadium last Sunday using the subway and the PATH train. It takes the same amount of time to get to Yankee Stadium using just the subway. All the best, Dan
8
George,
I think that is the one thing I would have liked you to mention even briefly. There is nothing like actually going to a game. I know MLS is inferior in terms of the quality on the field but it is superior in almost every other way because we can experience it. I sit next to the same folks for the past 4 years. We were not friends 4 years ago now we look forward to spending a couple hours together on Saturdays to watch our team. I can tell you what is like to be an away fan in Sporting KC and watch my team come from behind to win. I know the feeling of walking through RKF and the chants echoing through the walkways as we are escorted through to our seats. I get to have all of the positive connections and experience while watching the ever increasing quality of MLS. Someday it may reach the heights of Europe but at the end of the day I don't necessarily care if it does. Those teams are not my local team. I can't experience them. Thanks for taking the time to cover MLS.
I think that is the one thing I would have liked you to mention even briefly. There is nothing like actually going to a game. I know MLS is inferior in terms of the quality on the field but it is superior in almost every other way because we can experience it. I sit next to the same folks for the past 4 years. We were not friends 4 years ago now we look forward to spending a couple hours together on Saturdays to watch our team. I can tell you what is like to be an away fan in Sporting KC and watch my team come from behind to win. I know the feeling of walking through RKF and the chants echoing through the walkways as we are escorted through to our seats. I get to have all of the positive connections and experience while watching the ever increasing quality of MLS. Someday it may reach the heights of Europe but at the end of the day I don't necessarily care if it does. Those teams are not my local team. I can't experience them. Thanks for taking the time to cover MLS.
17
Agreed. I have been a football fan my entire life (when nary a match could be found on TV to now where I have my choice of every single EPL match and countless other options of viewing footy). And, absolutely, I find the average Canadian (American) fan very knowledgeable indeed - and ardent (as I am - Gooner till I die). Whenever I watch a match at public venues (I have hundreds of choices in Vancouver) I meet likeminded and very informed fans. Which brings me to the MLS - I want the league to succeed in a big way, but the quality (it's pronounced lack) puts me off. Yes, there are the occasional good matches, but, on the whole, it's pathetic. And there is absolutely nothing worse than the announcers on FOX (please bring back NBC) - their constant yelling and contrived slangs is a huge turn-off (I always turn down the volume in the local broadcast picks up a FOX signal).
1
I remember when the only soccer in NYC was played in Randalls Island, by teams made up of immigrants. We have come a long, long way.
Not enough has been made of the great Brasilian superstar Kaka coming to play here in the US. He was player of the year before Messi and Ronaldo.
Not enough has been made of the great Brasilian superstar Kaka coming to play here in the US. He was player of the year before Messi and Ronaldo.
1
An interesting article with good points about American fans and European soccer, BUT very parochial in describing what is going on in New York as characteristic of the M.L.S. If you want dedicated soccer stadiums; intense rivalries; "knowledgeable singing-chanting fans"; they DO exist here: look at the West Coast conference of M.L.S. and you will find them. Portland, Seattle, LA, etc.
1
You left out Salt Lake, with one of the highest attendances in the league. Almost as fun as going to the games is riding one of the first two trains back downtown after a victory. Singing and chanting all the way.
2
I agree! I love catching the Pacific Northwest club matches on TV as I LOVE the fans. I plan to one day travel to Portland, Seattle, Vancouver in order to take in a match alongside those wonderful fans.
2
Couple of items:
1) MLS for some reason the TV coverage doesn't seem as slick as the EPL on NBC. Don't know what it is, but a lot of times it's like I'm watching college broadcasting quality.
2) New England absolutely needs to get their own soccer specific stadium. Gillette Stadium with 14000 people there looks like the cleaning crew picking up after a Patriots game.
3) There needs to be a push by MLS to get more local hometown news affiliates to at least briefly give the scores from local games. Like here in Vermont we should have our 4 or 5 local TV news and radio programs, mention Revs and Montreal in the score run downs with NHL and NBA. This will help gin up interest.
1) MLS for some reason the TV coverage doesn't seem as slick as the EPL on NBC. Don't know what it is, but a lot of times it's like I'm watching college broadcasting quality.
2) New England absolutely needs to get their own soccer specific stadium. Gillette Stadium with 14000 people there looks like the cleaning crew picking up after a Patriots game.
3) There needs to be a push by MLS to get more local hometown news affiliates to at least briefly give the scores from local games. Like here in Vermont we should have our 4 or 5 local TV news and radio programs, mention Revs and Montreal in the score run downs with NHL and NBA. This will help gin up interest.
I agree with your second point. However, your first and third points about assumes that a large number of soccer fans in the US and Canada care about MLS. The simple fact of the matter is the majority of soccer fans in the US and Canada DO NOT CARE ABOUT MLS. That is the primary reason why there’s generally little interest in local media concerning the league and why NBC’s coverage of MLS, which was actually pretty good, wasn’t as good as its coverage as the EPL. The consistently low MLS TV ratings reflect this reality.
After he has won at least 4 FIFA World Player awards, you suddenly discover that Messi is actually a good player and that everyone around him at Barcelona is a supporting player? What game have you been watching for the past 5 years?
5
George loves the'total footballer' - read his book about covering 8 world cups.
The crunching but clean midfield tackle as well as the flourishes like nutmeg or back-heel pass.
But yeah that Messi kid is pretty good.
The crunching but clean midfield tackle as well as the flourishes like nutmeg or back-heel pass.
But yeah that Messi kid is pretty good.
@JJ: I love George, a lot. I was at the 82 World Cup, the first of the ones that he covered for the Times. But the idea that Zico, Maradona, Bergkamp or any of the other ethereally skilled players Vecsey has seen delivering a crunching tackle is, well, silly. In fact, the talisman of the original Total Footballers, Johan Cruyff, wasn't a tackler, either.
To (mis)characterize Messi as "just a finisher" is to completely deny his play since he became a regular first teamer at Barca. In fact, Pep shipping out Ibrahimovic and installing Messi as the false 9 opened up his playmaking. In fact, as both provider and finisher, he compares to the most rarefied stratum of footballers: Puskas, Cruyff and Pele. Proof positive, he leads the Spanish League, the best in the world, in both goals and in the unofficial tally of assists.
The 40 yard pass he made from the touch line right on Rakitic's badge, with five defenders starting to collapse on him, and Neymar's run pulling Sagna into the middle, and, was not only a triumph of skill and touch, but was also a triumph of vision. The number of players who could have envisioned Rakitic making a 25 yard run, and visualizing and completing that pass could certainly be counted on the fingers of one hand, and might only number one...
To (mis)characterize Messi as "just a finisher" is to completely deny his play since he became a regular first teamer at Barca. In fact, Pep shipping out Ibrahimovic and installing Messi as the false 9 opened up his playmaking. In fact, as both provider and finisher, he compares to the most rarefied stratum of footballers: Puskas, Cruyff and Pele. Proof positive, he leads the Spanish League, the best in the world, in both goals and in the unofficial tally of assists.
The 40 yard pass he made from the touch line right on Rakitic's badge, with five defenders starting to collapse on him, and Neymar's run pulling Sagna into the middle, and, was not only a triumph of skill and touch, but was also a triumph of vision. The number of players who could have envisioned Rakitic making a 25 yard run, and visualizing and completing that pass could certainly be counted on the fingers of one hand, and might only number one...
1
@JJ: Oh, by the way, Messi is FAR more diligent chasing the ball when not in possession than any of Cruyff, Zico, Maradona, Bergkamp or most other greats.
1
20 years in, is the league, and American soccer in general, well established enough to drop all of its restrictions on foreign talent? It seems like the only way to move up from being the 8th-10th best league will be to start competing for the best young talent in the world instead of serving as a sort of Senior PGA for a few major stars well past their primes.
3
@JP98: Two words, "salary cap." The league minimum has "jumped" considerably, from $36,000 (per year, not per week, which is a typical European footballer's salary) to $60,000. Take out Designated players, and an entire MLS squad of 20 makes less than Theo Walcott, who is not a starter at Arsenal.
1
MLS makes the mistake of following the standard US pro sports model: play in the big media centers and finance it with TV coverage.
No, soccer is for playing in temperate climates where the population understands the game and gets behind the players. That's the West Coast, not the big cities of the East and Midwest. Start leagues there and eventually the sport will grow out across the country. Stick with the current model and it will continue to be marginal.
No, soccer is for playing in temperate climates where the population understands the game and gets behind the players. That's the West Coast, not the big cities of the East and Midwest. Start leagues there and eventually the sport will grow out across the country. Stick with the current model and it will continue to be marginal.
Another take on a tired theme -- the MLS is not as good as other leagues. Fans of MLS know that. You can stop telling us. We support our clubs knowing that. We can go to games in our regions and see decent, live soccer, not pay obscene prices, and comfortably bring our families. Please find something else to right about related to MLS.
19
I agree Brian! How many of these articles do we have to read!?
NYTIMES, Focus on the positives please. Bring us good insider insight, not run of the mill, lazy articles like this.
NYTIMES, Focus on the positives please. Bring us good insider insight, not run of the mill, lazy articles like this.
1
"Up to now, I have resisted talk of Lionel Messi among the very greatest players — dismissing him, in a way, as a finisher — but last week Messi dodged and darted, began plays"
WoW! Messi just a finisher? That'd be only said by someone who started watching Barca only last season. Messi has been known as a complete footballer
since 2008 at least.
WoW! Messi just a finisher? That'd be only said by someone who started watching Barca only last season. Messi has been known as a complete footballer
since 2008 at least.
13
Yes, this would be like a music critic, after listening to Miles Davis for a decade, saying, "For years I dismissed Miles Davis as a dilettante, but now I realize he's serious about music." Messi has led La Liga in assists multiple times, as he is this year. Anyone with even a passing understanding of soccer can watch him and see his immense impact on any game in which he plays, whether he scores or not. The author has a great premise with this article: the MLS presents an inferior product to Europe's top leagues, whose games can be easily watched these days. But he torpedoes his bona fides with such an absurd statement. Raul was primarily a finisher. Francesco Totti is primarily a finisher. Luis Suarez is primarily a finisher. But Messi?
1
I wonder how the battle lines will be drawn in the New York fan's psyche? The pairing usually goes:
Giants, Yankees, Rangers & the Knicks vs. Jets, Mets, Islanders, & the Nets
I guess it depends who will capture a title first. In this scenario, the Red Bulls have been trying for 20 years and seem as lost as the Jets, Mets, Isles and Nets during the same period - though you could throw in the Knicks & Rangers in there too...jeez, it's been a brutal two decades in New York unless you follow the Giants or Yankees.
I suppose it's obvious to throw NYC FC with the Yank's group. May 10 will be a lot of fun at the darby!
Giants, Yankees, Rangers & the Knicks vs. Jets, Mets, Islanders, & the Nets
I guess it depends who will capture a title first. In this scenario, the Red Bulls have been trying for 20 years and seem as lost as the Jets, Mets, Isles and Nets during the same period - though you could throw in the Knicks & Rangers in there too...jeez, it's been a brutal two decades in New York unless you follow the Giants or Yankees.
I suppose it's obvious to throw NYC FC with the Yank's group. May 10 will be a lot of fun at the darby!
It seems that with all of his knowledge, the author simply forgot, or maybe overlooked the acquittal in the Italian courts recently, clearing Juventus of wrong doing in calciopoli. Due diligence, due diligence, where for art thou due diligence?
Yes, Italian courts are, like Caesar's wife, above reproach. The same courts that refused to jail Berlusconi? Thanks for the giggle, Anthony.
1
American pro football (soccer) is at the level of League Two in Britain and pays on the whole very poorly. What is on show is just not good soccer at all, sad to say. When I travel to Anfield or any of a number of other stadia in England, I know that I will see a good soccer match played at the highest level. When I go to see my hometown United at RFK in DC the game is often a lackluster affair with little style or skill on offer. YNWA!
1
Once upon a time in a life far ago someone told me that MLS was not FOOTBALL (and what was 'soccer' anyway?) and that he would never attend a match. He had the right to make that pronouncement since his national team had just beaten W Germany at that year's World Cup and had grown up playing and watching the game called Football. At the time I only knew the name of someone named Pele and the two Manchester teams and a team in Glasgow.
I had never seen an MLS match until late last season when a goalkeeper-who made 15 saves against Germany and whose national team-a few generations past the 1982 shocker- almost kept the Germans from winning the World Cup 2014 came to the US to play in the league that audaciously still calls Football soccer.
Sadly I discovered that the man who decried the game called soccer here was on the mark. It is not up to EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga or SPFL standards-not even close. It isn't even exactly Football. In fact some of the lowest ranked national teams in FIFA are better at the game then MLS teams.
Whether or not the MLS can bring up its playing to something even close to world class is anyone's guess. I will continue to watch the team of the goalkeeper who was able to make all those saves against Germany and his national team who are foxy (and Tim Howard who went against Belgium the night after but who plays for Everton FC) and hope that he can settle in better this year and that MLS learns how to do a proper derby -and play FOOTBALL.
I had never seen an MLS match until late last season when a goalkeeper-who made 15 saves against Germany and whose national team-a few generations past the 1982 shocker- almost kept the Germans from winning the World Cup 2014 came to the US to play in the league that audaciously still calls Football soccer.
Sadly I discovered that the man who decried the game called soccer here was on the mark. It is not up to EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga or SPFL standards-not even close. It isn't even exactly Football. In fact some of the lowest ranked national teams in FIFA are better at the game then MLS teams.
Whether or not the MLS can bring up its playing to something even close to world class is anyone's guess. I will continue to watch the team of the goalkeeper who was able to make all those saves against Germany and his national team who are foxy (and Tim Howard who went against Belgium the night after but who plays for Everton FC) and hope that he can settle in better this year and that MLS learns how to do a proper derby -and play FOOTBALL.
Respectfully, as a Spaniard living in NYC, I can tell from your article that you are familiar with the names and faces, but do not follow European football all that much. Among his many records, Messi holds the one for most assist ever in the Spanish league (also most goals scored).
As for where does the MLS stand among the international leagues, I believe 8th or 10th is still a stretch. Giving it a quick thought, I believe there are at least 13 leagues that are superior to that of the US (Spanish,
Premier League, Bundesliga, Calcio, Ligue 1, Portuguese, Argentinian, Brazilian, Russian, Mexican, Belge, Swiss, Greek) and a couple more that have at least 2 teams that would be championship favorites in the US.
Regards
As for where does the MLS stand among the international leagues, I believe 8th or 10th is still a stretch. Giving it a quick thought, I believe there are at least 13 leagues that are superior to that of the US (Spanish,
Premier League, Bundesliga, Calcio, Ligue 1, Portuguese, Argentinian, Brazilian, Russian, Mexican, Belge, Swiss, Greek) and a couple more that have at least 2 teams that would be championship favorites in the US.
Regards
7
George Vescey has forgotten more about European football than you will ever know. Please. Read his books, read his back columns. When no major sportswriter at any big US paper covered it or cared about it or loved it, Vescey did. Every football/soccer writer in the US owes a debt to Vescey for his work.
God forbid someone who has watched a lifetime of football and has seen 100s of great players come and go could think that Messi is not the best simply as a function of holding records that are at least in part due to being on the best club in the world for all of his European footballing career.
And he still has not had that same transcendant effect at the national team level. He was not the reason ARG lost, but did not inspire us with his play.
BEL, SUI, GRE better than MLS? joking right?
God forbid someone who has watched a lifetime of football and has seen 100s of great players come and go could think that Messi is not the best simply as a function of holding records that are at least in part due to being on the best club in the world for all of his European footballing career.
And he still has not had that same transcendant effect at the national team level. He was not the reason ARG lost, but did not inspire us with his play.
BEL, SUI, GRE better than MLS? joking right?
7
Not a joke - MLS teams might be League 1 caliber (Preston North End springs to mind). And the refs are terrible - can't keep up with the play and have criteria know but to themselves for callin a foul. His Messi comment shows some kind of blind spot for greatness.
1
@JJ: Let's see if Montreal can be the first MLS team to win the CONCACAF Champions League (ironically due not to their play in MLS, where they were the worst team in the Eastern Conference last season, but by dint of winning the Canadian Cup). Until it happens, and is not a fluke, then you can't even say that MLS is the best league in CONCACAF. And would an MLS team, even the Galaxy or the Sounders, have a shot to beat Olympiakos, Basel or FC Bruges? I'll go with a no here. Yes, the attendance is in the top 10 leagues in the world, and is greater, on average, than Italy. But Championship sides, or teams in the 2 Bundesliga, would run MLS teams right off the pitch. I have little doubt that Castilla or Barcelona B could compete for MLS Cup if they were in it.
1
Exhibit A. This weekend's El Classico on Bein TV.
Soccer on the highest level between Real Madrid and Barcelona. Incredible deciding goal by Suarez. No one or no team in the MLS comes close.
If I can watch those teams or Bayerin Munich or Juventus or PSG or the top four or five EPL teams, why would anyone watch the MLS?
Soccer on the highest level between Real Madrid and Barcelona. Incredible deciding goal by Suarez. No one or no team in the MLS comes close.
If I can watch those teams or Bayerin Munich or Juventus or PSG or the top four or five EPL teams, why would anyone watch the MLS?
4
A stellar piece, George, but neither you nor any other soccer fans need wait for May 10th to join with a "vibrant crowd" at an MLS match. Both the Red Bulls and Man City Lite have home matches before the first Hudson River derby.
6
Vibrant crowds and NJ Red Bulls? Never seen that in the same sentence before. Guess there's a first time for everything.
Soccer has long been the most popular youth sport in America, but the combination of vastly increased television coverage and EA's FIFA games is producing a sea change in awareness of global soccer among kids. My nine year old son and his friends can name all of the EPL teams, tell you about the standings in the EPL, La LIga, and the Bundesliga, and recall the group stage results from last year's World Cup. Saturday morning used to be cartoons. Now it's the Merseyside Derby.
11
This article speaks directly to the one step forward two steps back quality of play evolution that the MLS seems predestined to follow until it and soccer in the US has matured in perhaps another 20 years . Another comparison is the direct long ball which the Red Bulls used to score over inept central defending by D.C United and of the Goal Uruguay scored against inept English defending in the World Cup. The difference? Word Class Striker Lius Suarez versus Championship level and MLS striker Bradley Wright Phillips. Same game one just played both mentally and physically slower than the other. Gerrard and Lampard will fit perfectly and one will be a bust- your choice? Mine is Gerrard!
1
We have been waiting for quality soccer
in the US for decades. Not much has changed and with so many other sports to choose from as a child, maybe we will remain as we are....wannabes.
in the US for decades. Not much has changed and with so many other sports to choose from as a child, maybe we will remain as we are....wannabes.
2
This has been the case for at least 10 years. What angers longtime followers of the league is how slow MLS has been to react to this. Their unwillingness to appreciate how sophisticated US fans are-to understand in the age of the web, the game is truly global. It was right under their nose and MLS still tried to "Americanize" the league and the game for many years. Thankfully they have seen the light and are working in the direction of making the league a part of the global fabric of the game, with the caveat that in the US it is a niche sport, and its growth should take into account.
Mr. Ray Castro
Mr. Ray Castro
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/