This article is about one thing. Letting the NY Times readers know that Jeb Bush is Catholic. As though that is a bad thing. I keep saying to myself that I have to stop reading this paper because of the unrelenting bias that comes out in it everyday. Its as bad as being racist and you know it!
3
The Bushes are their own mafia. Fluff, fluff, fluff all the time NYT! How about some real investigative reporting! Stop coddling these people. It's getting old!
In every other developed nation there isn't this neediness to know one's religious convictions...only here in the gold, god and money USA and our 53rd state of Israel!!!
Religion and money out of politics! It is destroying the country.
America stands for separation of state and church...let's start acting like it.
In every other developed nation there isn't this neediness to know one's religious convictions...only here in the gold, god and money USA and our 53rd state of Israel!!!
Religion and money out of politics! It is destroying the country.
America stands for separation of state and church...let's start acting like it.
5
Jeb is guided by his thirst for money and power. Another Bush...gag me with a spoon. Another Clinton....gag me~further~with a spoon!
2
He may be Catholic on abortion, birth control, and taking your own life(Terry Schiavo) but he isn't on social justice. If you listen carefully to the pope, the rich would have no trouble taking care of the poor. So perhaps it is money that counts more than religion. In any case, I think he has learned being a Catholic causes peace with his wife. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
I live in FL when he was governor. He was all right. I don't think he was real good. But he wasn't real bad either. I will not vote for him.
I live in FL when he was governor. He was all right. I don't think he was real good. But he wasn't real bad either. I will not vote for him.
8
Jeb, since you signed the "Stand Your Ground" law in FL, I have wondered how you can reconcile being Pro-Gun and Pro-Life. They are a contradiction in terms.
16
Jebby is guided by his lust for power, money, place alongside Daddy and brother in history, basically his Ego period. No God about it, folks.
8
Jeb uses religion as a means to clear his head and to focus. It's like a zen state. It puts him in the zone. He doesn't hear god speaking to him. He's preaching religion to win over the rich catholics. It's similar to Obama attending Christian church. Don't be afraid of him.
2
You must be joking. He intervened in the Schiavo matter, and attempted to prevent a 13 year-old rape victim from having an abortion. He's a religious warrior that represents the primary reason a Republican will never win the White House. Americans don't want somebody else's patently subjective morality shoved down their throats. Having another person's religious beliefs imposed through the government is as Anti-American as it gets.
8
Actually, he is not very obviously influenced by his religion. Catholicism is very centrally concerned about social justice, with a "preferred option for the poor." Yes, he opposes abortion, as does the Catholic Church, but as do misogynist theocrats in general. There is nothing uniquely Catholic about opposition to abortion, and very little about Governor Bush that is faithful to Roman Catholic social teaching.
7
I don't care what people say their religion is, I care what their religion causes them to do.
I don't think, in Jeb Bush's case, it has made him a better person.
Jeb Bush will -- despite his Catholicism and the urgings of Pop Francis -- cater to the rich and ignore the poor. Jeb, being a Bush, will still push to privatize everything in sight. And that will help only the rich, certainly not the poor or middle class.
So, it does not matter to me whether Jeb Bush or anyone is a Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Muslim; what matters is what they DO in everyday life -- that is what tells us what they really are.
I don't think, in Jeb Bush's case, it has made him a better person.
Jeb Bush will -- despite his Catholicism and the urgings of Pop Francis -- cater to the rich and ignore the poor. Jeb, being a Bush, will still push to privatize everything in sight. And that will help only the rich, certainly not the poor or middle class.
So, it does not matter to me whether Jeb Bush or anyone is a Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Muslim; what matters is what they DO in everyday life -- that is what tells us what they really are.
11
Sorry about the typo.
I had meant to write: Pope Francis.
I had meant to write: Pope Francis.
2
I think this is great. What this country needs right now is (another) president who receives direct instructions from God.
14
Good point...last thing we need is another God influenced leader. Can we get some scientists on the ballots please
10
I don't want to see another politician touting his religious beliefs. Mr. Jeb Bush should keep his faith to himself. Strangely enough I have seen and met many American couples defer to their wives in matters of religion. The woman decides how her children are going to be raised. the husband has very little say. In this sense that's why Jews accept children of mixed religious marriages as Jews if the mother is a Jew. I guess they figured it out right. She is the one who raises them for at least the first 12 years of their lives of their lives. I have read in the past that a Jesuit priest said, "give me a seven or eight-year-old boy, I make him a Jesuit". In other words, religion is indoctrination and brainwashing. Our politicians are crossing a dangerous line. I don't want to see religion mixed with politics. It should remain a private matter. It may appeal to some people but it will also alienate many more. This practice is turning a lot of Americans into atheists or agnostics. I have joined those ranks myself.
14
But his faith also compels him to buck the horrific xenophobia and anti-Hispanic fervor within his own party. His wife is an RC Hispanic, and that bodes well for immigration reform which I've ruefully come to believe will happen only under a GOP President. This is not western Europe where hostility to faith is the badge of honor for the intellectual chattering classes. If all you have "J&G" is animus toward people of faith, you need to meet more of them. You might be surprised that we are not all narrow-minded fundamentalists, and we don't fear the modern world, science or non-believers.
1
I don't believe that he is "touting" his religious beliefs. He is merely acknowledging that they inform his outlook on life, and he is using his commonalities with other people of faith to build bridges.
Secondly, how can religion involve indoctrination and brainwashing? Jeb Bush chose, after being raised in another (albeit similar) faith, to switch denominations AS AN ADULT. I myself have gone the opposite way. To say that clergy and religious parents permanently alter a child's thinking on the matter is to give too much credit to them. If that were so, attendance in Christian churches would be rising or at least stable over time, not falling.
Also, consider a thought experiment. If Jeb Bush were an acknowledged atheist or agnostic, but held the exact same political positions as he does now (which is quite possible), would you still be uncomfortable with him and his reaching-out to likeminded individuals?
Secondly, how can religion involve indoctrination and brainwashing? Jeb Bush chose, after being raised in another (albeit similar) faith, to switch denominations AS AN ADULT. I myself have gone the opposite way. To say that clergy and religious parents permanently alter a child's thinking on the matter is to give too much credit to them. If that were so, attendance in Christian churches would be rising or at least stable over time, not falling.
Also, consider a thought experiment. If Jeb Bush were an acknowledged atheist or agnostic, but held the exact same political positions as he does now (which is quite possible), would you still be uncomfortable with him and his reaching-out to likeminded individuals?
2
Likewise
The more I see these hypocritical people using religion as a tool to gain political consensus the more I take distance from them.
12
As some of you had said on here, I am afraid of what he would try to do if he ever became president. Kennedy was wise enough to seperate his faith and presidency. If he ever passed laws against things like birth control, it would almost certainly be because of his Catholic faith, and would be going against seperation of church and state, which was a concern of the Founding Fathers.
5
Kennedy had to make a passionate speech about the separation of church and state because Americans feared the Popes Catholicism would rule the country. It is clear now that America fear towards a religious based leadership is still here. Jeb Bush needs top allay those fears just like Kennedy dfid.
1
This was a well written piece. It was an interesting and informative narrative taking us through Jeb Bush's conversion to Catholicism. It also fairly portrays how his faith is a guidepost in shaping some of his public policy decisions. I think everyone will agree that we want moral ethical leaders. The moral compass of these individuals will be shaped by many factors including but not limited to their faith. Atheists and agnostics will have different but equally valid touchstones that shape their ethical blueprint.
2
I don't want a President of this great secular nation who is guided by any religion.
18
No truer words were spoken than those of Barbara Bush who said we don't need any more Bushes in the White House!
21
Come on NYTimes. You print this as if it has meaning. Kennedy was a devote Catholic, at least in public. We've had many politicians that attend church and practice a religion. Most in fact. What does Obama practice? Rev. Wright? While the videos are gone, I watched them first hand in 2007 when they surfaced. Deplorably racist 'church.' It wasn't the religion that was offensive, but the Rev and his racist sermons; attended by Obama who never 'noticed' they were racist. Hmmm.
You have no credibility to attack any religion or politician's religious beliefs as you limit it to your attacks on Republicans only. Guess we don't have any Dems that go to church or practice a religion anymore. I'm not religious myself, but do believe in the right of all to practice as long as they don't impact what I do or what I believe in. Is the objective of this article to convince readers that one cannot practice a religion and be in politics?
Perhaps the objective is to speak to Progressives, most of whom practice no religion. You know, the ones that booed the minister during the last Democrat convention for nominating their candidate for president. It was an embarassment and, frankly, a disgrace.
You have no credibility to attack any religion or politician's religious beliefs as you limit it to your attacks on Republicans only. Guess we don't have any Dems that go to church or practice a religion anymore. I'm not religious myself, but do believe in the right of all to practice as long as they don't impact what I do or what I believe in. Is the objective of this article to convince readers that one cannot practice a religion and be in politics?
Perhaps the objective is to speak to Progressives, most of whom practice no religion. You know, the ones that booed the minister during the last Democrat convention for nominating their candidate for president. It was an embarassment and, frankly, a disgrace.
8
Name the Democrat who has inserted their religion into public policy. Bonus points if you can come up with one who interfered directly into the lives of individuals the way Jeb did.
17
How is this article an attack?
It points out that there are conflicts between his positions as a Governor and Catholic doctrine, and this is to be expected no matter what religion someone professes. On the whole it portrays Jeb Bush as being thoughtful in combining his faith and his job. Specifically, what section do you think is unfair?
It points out that there are conflicts between his positions as a Governor and Catholic doctrine, and this is to be expected no matter what religion someone professes. On the whole it portrays Jeb Bush as being thoughtful in combining his faith and his job. Specifically, what section do you think is unfair?
3
“Well, it’s not an imposition of faith. It’s who you are.” - It may be who you are, but if you try to force others to abide by your religious beliefs, then "an imposition of faith" is *exactly* what it is.
14
Anyone who allowed the execution of 21 prisoners is NOT pro-life. Nor is he much of a Catholic either.
19
Catholic hospitals let women die, rather than give them an abortion to save their lives, so Jeb Bush is following Church tenets, that some lives are more valuable than others.
6
A couple of comments on the article and one directed at some reader comments. 1.) The article makes a bigger deal, I thought, of going from Anglican to Catholic than is the case. Any Episcopalian would find Catholicism far more familiar than most American Protestantism. 2.) My Church does NOT universally condemn the use of the death penalty. Yes, in advanced countries, for example, the Church has basically said that if there is a judicial system that can properly and humanly house prisoners for life without parole, then a death penalty has no grounds, *however*, even in those countries, there are cases and circumstances where the death penalty can be applied in compliance with Catholic teaching. The USCCB has condemned the way the death penalty is used in America, for example, but it is wrong to say that Bush violated "Catholic teaching", in endorsing it's use in some cases. On abortion, the Church's positions is different. It is always considered immoral as it is the ending of an innocent life. 3.) Critics of Bush on both extremes, seem to want it both ways. He is either the heartless right-winger who rejects Catholic Social Teaching, or he is the "establishment moderate" who is for a social safety net, immigration reform, 'Common Core', etc. Make up your minds!
4
The Pope is clear: The death penalty is wrong and should be abolished. Got it?
12
Any governmental leader in the United States is expected to take into consideration all sides of an issue and the interests of all whom he or she serves. The Church of Rome is the last vestige of the Roman Empire and requires obedience to its own moral dictates. A faithful Roman Catholic will follow Church positions on issues of the day as a matter of obligation and without really considering a wider perspective and other options. Protestants, Jews, and the non-religious are not under such constraints and so are free to act in the interest of all and weigh fairly all sides of what needs to be decided. The same problem exists on the Supreme Court. This is not written to be anti-Roman Catholic, but to point out a difficult and significant reality.
6
Buy most Catholics pay little attention to what the Vatican pontificates about contraception, abortion, marriage and divorce, or send their kids to parochial schools. --
4
His brother's best friend was Jesus and he sent scores of american soldiers to be killed abroad. One of those wars was based on lies but George W. Bush didn't hesitate to carry on a conflict with horrible consequences in terms of human lives. Now another Bush shows his "pure soul" by going to church with his family demonstrating to all of us how nice example of religious man he is.
I have to say that the more I see these hypocritical people the more I take distance from any kind of religion. It is nauseating.
I have to say that the more I see these hypocritical people the more I take distance from any kind of religion. It is nauseating.
19
Will be interested on how Mr. Bush reconciles his positions with the stated beliefs/doctrine of the Church/Pope regarding poverty, extreme wealth, pollution, immigration, etc..
6
When his brother was asked whom his favorite philosopher was he promptly responded "Jesus Christ". Would Jesus have invaded Iraq?
6
By the very nature of your question, you fail to understand Jesus' earthly mission.
2
Given Jeb Bush's cannot honestly take the oath to support the Constitution of the United States of America given his belief that it is okay to impose his religious views on the rest of us.
4
This kind of trumpeting of one's "faith" like a banner that you wrap around you in the morning is dangerous, hypocritical and unnecessary. It leads to intolerance, tyranny and a very small world view that is exclusionary. In times gone by, it led to the Inquisition.
Isn't it time we asked these public figures to keep their faith to themselves? It should inform them, and not be used to bludgeon others.
Isn't it time we asked these public figures to keep their faith to themselves? It should inform them, and not be used to bludgeon others.
10
These are the same misguided comments that were leveled against John Kennedy when he was running for President in 1960.
1
Except that JFK was not a Republican. Bush is and the GOP seems to use religion as a way to rationalize many of their decisions and the laws that they want to enact. That's the difference.
5
Excellent article. But it oddly omitted mention of Jeb's hostility to public education [see the 3 chapters on Jeb in Mercedes Schneider's 2014 book, A Chronicle of Echoes: Who's Who in the Implosion of American Public Education] or his efforts to divert public funds to his church's private schools through vouchers, which Florida voters rejected 55% to 45% in the November 2012 election and which flies in the face of Article I, Section 3 of the Florida constitution.
Most Catholics think for themselves on such matters as contraception, abortion, marriage and divorce, parochial schools, etc, and ignore the positions of the Vatican and the bishops. Jeb Bush is a throwback, quite the opposite of such admirable Catholics as John Kennedy, William Brennan, Robert Drinan, Barbara Mikukski, Dick Durbin, etc.
Most Catholics think for themselves on such matters as contraception, abortion, marriage and divorce, parochial schools, etc, and ignore the positions of the Vatican and the bishops. Jeb Bush is a throwback, quite the opposite of such admirable Catholics as John Kennedy, William Brennan, Robert Drinan, Barbara Mikukski, Dick Durbin, etc.
7
I'm sure Jeb is just fine with picking and choosing which rules he wants to live by. Unfortunately he wants to pick and choose which rules of the Church the rest of the country lives by.
9
Like so many social conservatives, life in the womb is precious. Upon leaving the womb, watch out. New license plate: Choose Life. Twenty-one death warrants signed and implemented: Choose Death.
13
Take a look at their track record when it comes to assistance for pregnant women (medical care etc.). They're not terribly concerned with life in the womb.
8
The question is does Bush trust the Catholic Priests with his children?
8
This Bush whose family is more like brush cannot win in 2016, Lindsey Graham is a much better choice to run against Hillary, even George Pataki is better.
1
How interesting that conservatives frequently complain about relativism that they perceive in liberals yet here we have a cafeteria Catholic who is all gung-ho about the religion's sanctity of life dogma -- except when he isn't, as in the case of capital punishment. How much are you REALLY guided by your faith, Jeb?
5
I wonder how Jeb Bush feels about Pope Francis as it seems to me that Pope Francis is the extreme opposit from the Republocan party.
8
Jeb likes "... the fact that the Catholic Church believes in, and acts on, absolute truth as its foundational principle ..." yet he rejects one of the most sacred absolute truths of The Church that all life is sacred - all life including condemned criminals. Apparently he picks and chooses which absolute truths he buys into. How convenient.
6
Funny that people will believe this. He's a politician and answers to his RINO masters only.
2
Great, just what we need, another Catholic in power.
Isn't SCOTUS enough?
As a recovering Catholic I find the re-intrusion of religion into public life. a sad and scary thing.
And what do "moral values" have to do with the Catholic Church, the biggest criminal conspiracy in the history of mankind?
Worship your God as you wish. I don't care what you believe. It makes no difference to me.
Just govern and shut up.
Ones sleeve is an inappropriate place to wear one's religion.
Isn't SCOTUS enough?
As a recovering Catholic I find the re-intrusion of religion into public life. a sad and scary thing.
And what do "moral values" have to do with the Catholic Church, the biggest criminal conspiracy in the history of mankind?
Worship your God as you wish. I don't care what you believe. It makes no difference to me.
Just govern and shut up.
Ones sleeve is an inappropriate place to wear one's religion.
11
What did you think of John and/or Bobby Kennedy?
1
More bogus rubbish from religious zealots--how pathetic in this day and age that prostituting one's adherence to religious doctrines tries to camouflage one's weak record as a former governor who is now contemplating a Presidential run. This is offensive. Our country was founded on the principle of separation of Church and State. Religion does not belong in politics. It shouldn't furnish a basis for any belief in deciding critical issues involving the welfare of an entire country. Did Catholicism guide Jeb Bush in sponsoring his disastrous Stand Your Ground laws in Florida? This man is totally out of his depth--he is lacking substantive political background in most areas of the law and in no way should represent any political party. Is Bush really going to sit there fingering his rosary in his suit pocket while making important decisions affecting the country. This is absolutely preposterous !
9
"Sometimes, he carries a rosary in his pocket and fingers its beads at moments of crisis." Great. That will help at those crucial world crises moments. Every time I read another fluff piece of reporting on this criminal and his family I want to puke. What a waste of proverbial ink. I cannot believe I even wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this drivel. NO MORE BUSH'S - please! They have wrecked the country irreparably.
10
It seems to me that Governor Bush has reflected a lot on his political career and his efforts to reach the highest office in the State of Florida and has reconciled public service with who he is and his faith.
If that is correct and Governor Bush is going to be guided by the universal faith values of concern for the poor and sick, humility, kindness and generosity in heart, tolerance, and ethically true, I for one would be proud to have him as my President.
If that is correct and Governor Bush is going to be guided by the universal faith values of concern for the poor and sick, humility, kindness and generosity in heart, tolerance, and ethically true, I for one would be proud to have him as my President.
1
Take a look at his track record, he could care less about the poor and the sick.
8
I would hope that all individuals function on some ethical basis...whether faith-based or otherwise. However, I am concerned about "theocratizing" government, as Mario Cuomo once described.
As for faith-based programs for citizens, I have my reservations. Do they, can they, become potentially indirectly coercive means for proselytizing? This is a nations that proclaims itself founded on Judaeo-Christian values. For some proponents of those belief systems, they often are not very inclusive of other religious values.
One comment on the picture of Jeb Bush with Benedict XVI. It plays into the old canard that a Catholic has dual loyalties, one to a foreign potentate! What indeed was the editor of the NY Times who inserted that picture thinking? Especially considering the fact that I do not recall having read or seen any significant articles about the faiths of other potential presidential candidates!
As for faith-based programs for citizens, I have my reservations. Do they, can they, become potentially indirectly coercive means for proselytizing? This is a nations that proclaims itself founded on Judaeo-Christian values. For some proponents of those belief systems, they often are not very inclusive of other religious values.
One comment on the picture of Jeb Bush with Benedict XVI. It plays into the old canard that a Catholic has dual loyalties, one to a foreign potentate! What indeed was the editor of the NY Times who inserted that picture thinking? Especially considering the fact that I do not recall having read or seen any significant articles about the faiths of other potential presidential candidates!
A short history of State Religion in America.
Keep in mind that the United States of America is the only...THE ONLY...."protestant" nation that ever existed on planet earth.........
0. Roman Catholicism built on the foundations of the crumbling Roman Empire...using the Nicean Crede as a loyalty oath, collecting taxes, and imposing order through the use of a bureaucracy of literate monks and priests.
00. The Church of England, also refered to as the Anglican Church, established in England breaks away from the RC Pope in Rome.
1. Virginia Colony develops an "episcopal" version of the Anglicans, which does not recognize the authority of the Anglican Bishops. Eventually, so many diverse religious groups overwhelm the Episcopal order on the frontier.....presbyterians, quakers, etc etc.
2. The New England Colonies begin as an experiment in State Religion...."Puritans". eventually, to many dissenters break away and form their own independent colonies. Roger Williams Baptists in Rhode Island the famous example.
3. USA begins its course through history, loudly disavowing any requirement to stay loyal to any religious order.....all while re-affirming a core belief in ONE G-D. Protestants.
4. Then came the Civil War....and in its aftermath, the flood of Roman Catholics imported State Religion back into America....with a vengeance.
Keep in mind that the United States of America is the only...THE ONLY...."protestant" nation that ever existed on planet earth.........
0. Roman Catholicism built on the foundations of the crumbling Roman Empire...using the Nicean Crede as a loyalty oath, collecting taxes, and imposing order through the use of a bureaucracy of literate monks and priests.
00. The Church of England, also refered to as the Anglican Church, established in England breaks away from the RC Pope in Rome.
1. Virginia Colony develops an "episcopal" version of the Anglicans, which does not recognize the authority of the Anglican Bishops. Eventually, so many diverse religious groups overwhelm the Episcopal order on the frontier.....presbyterians, quakers, etc etc.
2. The New England Colonies begin as an experiment in State Religion...."Puritans". eventually, to many dissenters break away and form their own independent colonies. Roger Williams Baptists in Rhode Island the famous example.
3. USA begins its course through history, loudly disavowing any requirement to stay loyal to any religious order.....all while re-affirming a core belief in ONE G-D. Protestants.
4. Then came the Civil War....and in its aftermath, the flood of Roman Catholics imported State Religion back into America....with a vengeance.
2
I thought the Know-Nothing party was extinct in the 19th Century. Apparently not. Since when is Catholicism the "state religion?" You don't know what you're talking about.
2
This article makes JB come across as a member of the Tea Party. He is not. A more honest assessment of his political veiws can be found in an article that was linked within the story, here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/keyraces98/stori.... JB is a moderate Republican which means his thinking is geared towards helping people rather than treating them like the Democrats do--as needy irresponsible citizens. Vote for JB!
Having aid that, it is really a shame that religion has such a powerful influence that candidates need to pander to it.
Having aid that, it is really a shame that religion has such a powerful influence that candidates need to pander to it.
1
This article seems to support the notion that one's religion IS, afterall, a very important consideration in determining whether or not to vote for an individual.
To say that we shouldn't feel a need to know about a politicians religious choice is sticking one's head in the sand! Mr. Bush certainly admits that his Catholic religion influences his policy decisions!
There was a time....when JFK was running for the presidency that he publicly declared he wouldn't be unduly influenced by his Catholic faith.
Six Catholics on SCOTUS is enough!
To say that we shouldn't feel a need to know about a politicians religious choice is sticking one's head in the sand! Mr. Bush certainly admits that his Catholic religion influences his policy decisions!
There was a time....when JFK was running for the presidency that he publicly declared he wouldn't be unduly influenced by his Catholic faith.
Six Catholics on SCOTUS is enough!
5
So, how would you feel about a presidential candidate with no stated religious faith? Is it just the Catholics? Ideally, we should have no clue about a person's religious belief - except by their actions. And, even then - the non-religious people in the world seem much more thoughtful and caring.
2
Catholic faith, if it's done right, is irreconcilable with Republican politics.
19
Absolutely incorrect, unless one or the other of them is done wrong! Unfortunately, that happens often, but the problem is with the members of either ideology, and how they choose to interpret or rationalize it, rather than with the ideology itself.
That's why my wonderful Catholic mother left the Republican party.
2
He's like so many other cafeteria Catholics. i.e. he selects what he likes and ignores what he doesn't. President: not a chance.
12
President Jeb Bush, all but guaranteed, and America's opposite number to Netanyahu. Democrats are out of steam, and credibility ("a war on women"??), as was seen conclusively in the November midterms, and in the state governors' offices.
1
The Catholic Church has very strong views on our moral obligation to address poverty, but this part of church doctrine is almost never brought up by politicians. The church's position goes well beyond the "religion based social services" referred to in this article.
In fact the Pope's latest apostolic exhortation urges changes in the global financial system that is responsible for much of the poverty in the world. It seems that Governor Bush doesn't want to explore this aspect of being a Catholic.
In fact, you would think that the only issues the church cares about are abortion and gay marriage. Sadly both our politicians and our media reduce church doctrine to simplistic popular issues. Governor Bush can win votes on abortion and gay marriage, but can he really be a good Catholic if that's the extent of his acceptance of church doctrine?
In fact the Pope's latest apostolic exhortation urges changes in the global financial system that is responsible for much of the poverty in the world. It seems that Governor Bush doesn't want to explore this aspect of being a Catholic.
In fact, you would think that the only issues the church cares about are abortion and gay marriage. Sadly both our politicians and our media reduce church doctrine to simplistic popular issues. Governor Bush can win votes on abortion and gay marriage, but can he really be a good Catholic if that's the extent of his acceptance of church doctrine?
8
'...The Catholic Church has very strong views on our moral obligation to address poverty...'
The Catholic Church stance on birth control has created poverty everywhere in the world that they have any influence.
What the Church does not do is to pay for the poverty their policies have created. For that, they have the taxpayers, so why should they?
The Catholic Church stance on birth control has created poverty everywhere in the world that they have any influence.
What the Church does not do is to pay for the poverty their policies have created. For that, they have the taxpayers, so why should they?
4
A critical lesson he did not learn from our founding fathers and Lincoln.
Do not abuse religion, keep it to yourself, listen to yourself not God.
I suggest he and other right wing pols. be made to take a mandatory tour of the middle east and other areas with the resulting horror stories that happen when you start
mixing religion and politics.
Do not abuse religion, keep it to yourself, listen to yourself not God.
I suggest he and other right wing pols. be made to take a mandatory tour of the middle east and other areas with the resulting horror stories that happen when you start
mixing religion and politics.
5
No personal offense intended but to say that Lincoln "kept religion to himself", is to reveal an ignorance of his greatest speeches. They positively ooze with Christian moral doctrine.
2
Desertfalcon:
Being religious or even being guided by one's own religious beliefs is vastly different from trying to impose or inflict one's religious beliefs and values on others.
Lincoln did not use the power of the government to force his religious beliefs on others.
Jeb Bush did in the Terry Schiavo matter.
Even with regard to slavery, Lincoln did not force his religious beliefs on others. He famously wrote, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union . . ."
Lincoln did not claim his religious belief was his guide with regard to slavery, which was the most important moral issue of his presidency.
Being religious or even being guided by one's own religious beliefs is vastly different from trying to impose or inflict one's religious beliefs and values on others.
Lincoln did not use the power of the government to force his religious beliefs on others.
Jeb Bush did in the Terry Schiavo matter.
Even with regard to slavery, Lincoln did not force his religious beliefs on others. He famously wrote, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union . . ."
Lincoln did not claim his religious belief was his guide with regard to slavery, which was the most important moral issue of his presidency.
1
The alignment of religión, politics and money is so perverse. Corruption takes the form of moral rectitude as preachers extract tithings from followers to do God´s work, then misuse the tax free gifts to influence government. Politicians are tainted by the cash, proclaiming that their upright moral carácter is original to them when in fact it appears to be little more than a charade in order to keep the money flowing. What happened to the Constitutional mandate of a clear separation of Church and State...
7
As far as one can tell, Gov. Bush likes the "externals" of being a Catholic, but is unable to articulate why the religion resonated with him. It's because of his "wife": because she is devout and he envies that? because she gave him an ultimatum? He likes the "serenity" and it's made him a "better person." What was lacking in the faith of his youth? Is it the emotional responses of the churchgoers around him? The freedom to sing songs and be moved? The authority of one church under the guidance of a Pope?
6
The most frightening aspect of US Politics is to recognize Roman Catholicism for what it so obviously is.....
Rome......a state.
Catholicism.....a religion.
Roman Catholicism.....state religion.
We now have extra-judicial tribunals established around the world, their purpose is to "inquire" about heretical(ie....terroristic) views of the accused.
We have even gone so far as to approve TORTURE as a valid methodology for extracting the truth from these heretics.
We speak of re-taking the Middle East(aka the "Holy Land") in terms of Crusades.
Yet.,.....heavens no, we're not attempting to establish State Religion in America, heavens no!!
Why, what a coincidence that all fervant Catholics follow some politician named "Santorum"....
Again....I guess it requires spelling it out.
Santo....means "Holy" in latin.
Rum.....means "Rome".
Rome......a state.
Catholicism.....a religion.
Roman Catholicism.....state religion.
We now have extra-judicial tribunals established around the world, their purpose is to "inquire" about heretical(ie....terroristic) views of the accused.
We have even gone so far as to approve TORTURE as a valid methodology for extracting the truth from these heretics.
We speak of re-taking the Middle East(aka the "Holy Land") in terms of Crusades.
Yet.,.....heavens no, we're not attempting to establish State Religion in America, heavens no!!
Why, what a coincidence that all fervant Catholics follow some politician named "Santorum"....
Again....I guess it requires spelling it out.
Santo....means "Holy" in latin.
Rum.....means "Rome".
5
Apparently, it got his brother elected in 2000 and the Iraq War.
4
Mr. Bush's cruel attempts to force feed a brain dead woman, Terry Schaivo, were inhumane and loathesome in the extreme. If this was a product of his religion, as I think is likely, than keep it away from the rest of our country.
10
You have not looked carefully at the facts of that case. Terry Schaivo was not brain dead, she was not dying, and she had loving family willing to care for her for the rest of her natural life. Her husband, on the other hand, was already living with another woman and had ulterior motives for wanting her out of the picture. Forcing an innocent woman to die a slow and tortuous death by dehydration while her loved ones looked on helplessly is truly the inhumane and loathesome act. What is the matter with you? Is your heart so cold and hard that you cannot even recognize cold-blooded murder?!!!
2
That would be true if she were indeed "brain dead", which she was not, as she lived for some time without any food, water or other assistance. The controversy surrounding her case related simply to whether she was in an irretrievable vegetative state; that was never proved, one way or the other.
2
Never Forget Terry Schiavo.
3
Perhaps he'll pay attention to the Pope.
3
Sounds good to me. He's got my vote.
2
Why? Do you want him to impose your religion on your personal life and the lives of others?
3
I'm glad to see that Jeb Bush has moral values. I'm glad he takes his chosen faith seriously. However, I do not want him imposing his religious values on me or my reproductive life. I do not want him telling me or others when we need assistance to go to the church, the temple, or the mosque for it. I've noticed that too many politicians parade their faith in front of us while voting for policies that hurt us and then tell us that their beliefs or faith dictate that they vote the way they vote. Faith should not take the place of common sense or humanity. Faith does not mean mandating that a woman be forced to bear a child she cannot support or that has a severe defect incompatible with life. Faith does not mean executing people. It does not mean telling others that it's their fault that they can't find a job and have no money to feed themselves or their families. All too often in America, faith has been used as a way to exclude and hurt others.
Furthermore, if we are a Judeo Christian country, we would do more to help those in need. We wouldn't keep on telling them that they have to help themselves when they've already done that. We wouldn't call those who need help moochers. But we do all that and worse. We let people die.
Furthermore, if we are a Judeo Christian country, we would do more to help those in need. We wouldn't keep on telling them that they have to help themselves when they've already done that. We wouldn't call those who need help moochers. But we do all that and worse. We let people die.
6
"the Catholic Church believes in, and acts on, absolute truth as its foundational principle and doesn’t move with the tides of modern times"
I just hope Jeb Bush has a different set of values when it comes to tax reform. The current code is destroying family wealth and opportunity for 90% of the population.
I just hope Jeb Bush has a different set of values when it comes to tax reform. The current code is destroying family wealth and opportunity for 90% of the population.
4
...and therein lies his problem.
3
Catholics are at least as diverse politically as other Americans, and opinion polls show they're more liberal on issues such as the death penalty and same-sex marriage than most other Americans. The hierarchy is diverse politically too, though you'd not know it from reading the New York Times. I'd never vote for Jeb Bush, but not because of his religion--because of his political views. I thought that's what Americans were supposed to do?
21
'...Catholics are at least as diverse politically as other Americans...'
There are no religions without followers, so each follower is equally culpable. The Catholic Church rigid and absolute dogma on women and birth control has caused incalculable misery in the world and will continue to do so as long as even one person sits in the pews.
People who sit in churches admiring the pretty candles, while ignoring the suffering of billions of women and children in the world, suffering caused by church policies, should be judged on their religion.
Or should craven indifference to human suffering somehow be overlooked because it is part of a person's religious belief?
There are no religions without followers, so each follower is equally culpable. The Catholic Church rigid and absolute dogma on women and birth control has caused incalculable misery in the world and will continue to do so as long as even one person sits in the pews.
People who sit in churches admiring the pretty candles, while ignoring the suffering of billions of women and children in the world, suffering caused by church policies, should be judged on their religion.
Or should craven indifference to human suffering somehow be overlooked because it is part of a person's religious belief?
2
Maybe he needs to sit down with the Pope and get a refresher course on what it really means to be a Catholic
9
I thought it was funny that that woman said his knowledge of the Bible was better than hers. Of course it's better! Most Protestants know more about the Bible than most Catholics, and he's from a non-Catholic background. But the fact that he converted to his wife's religion does not bode well for his presidency. He gave up his principles under pressure. And his comment about being Catholic giving him serenity and allowing him to think clearer could be me describing my yoga routine or my daily walk. It's just lacking in spiritual depth. People convert for many reasons, but the right one should be because you're searching for truth and you've found it. It shouldn't really be for any other reason---not for convenience, not for your wife and children, not for political favor or because it's the popular thing to do.
8
Done right, both yoga and daily walks have spiritual depth.
2
There should be NO elected officials whose religion is important in their life.
3
By definition, having religion implies it is important to one. Therefore, should elected officials be limited to atheists? And if their atheistic beliefs are "important" to them, wouldn't that be somewhat discriminatory to the rest of us? Your statement leaves only 2 alternatives: self-contradiction, or hypocrisy, with discrimination as the only possible result.
Such hypocrisy. What a contrast between the teachings of Christ and this man's embrace of the rich and powerful, his pursuit of wealth and power for himself, and his disregard of the poor and vulnerable.
7
Any leader... LOCAL, REGIONAL, NATIONAL or, WORLD....
Should be guided by 'PRINCIPLES'..... Simple !!!
((Read Stephen R. Covey's 'Principle-Centered Leadership')
Principles are 'Natural Laws'.... Remains true 'ALL THE TIME'....
Religion is subject to interpretation....
And, look where religion has got us... THE WORLD OVER !
Not a good standard to measure by....
Should be guided by 'PRINCIPLES'..... Simple !!!
((Read Stephen R. Covey's 'Principle-Centered Leadership')
Principles are 'Natural Laws'.... Remains true 'ALL THE TIME'....
Religion is subject to interpretation....
And, look where religion has got us... THE WORLD OVER !
Not a good standard to measure by....
4
Nice, but I'd much prefer if he were guided by wholly rational thought.
7
It takes no justification to do good, but to do real evil you need a god.
5
What I respect most about the Catholic Church is its principled stance against capital punishment. To profess a belief in the sanctity of all life (now if we could only all agree as to when life actually begins) and be for capital punishment would indeed be hypocritical. What, pray tell, is Bush's rationalization?
6
Well, what do you know!!! Another Bush discovers the opportunities bestowed by "his faith". I'm glad for him and his family that he got his religious act together, conveniently 40 years ago when entering politics, but I'm disgusted at how he throws it around so wildly by his ridiculously obvious efforts to get elected. "...as he explores a bid for the presidency, his religion has become a focal point of early appeals to evangelical activists, who are particularly important in a Republican primary that is often dominated by religious voters."(NYTimes quote) Can't the voters learn from history (W Bush) and see through this fog?
8
Oops! Not 40 years--20 years!
1
For a fellow who cherishes the Catholic Church's beliefs and principles based on "absolute truth", as he puts it, how do you explain his enthusiasm for capital punishment while his Church resolutely opposes it? Or his willing enforcement of this country's most unforgiving policy toward those who had committed a crime but had paid their debt to society? Or his initial veto of a bill that would have brought Florida's public school grading standards back in line with those of the rest of the country, instead of actually putting public school students at a great disadvantage when applying to college (As in: A=94-100, B=85-93, C=77-84, D=65-76, F=0-64)? (He finally signed the bill a year later after it was passed a second time by the Legislature - and he himself was up for re-election.)
Then again, he's always been a man of the people - the wealthy ones, that is. Not exactly the crowd with whom Jesus hung about. Then again, what else can you expect of a chap who governed as if the Golden Rule was 'Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.' Then again, in all fairness perhaps old Jeb's idea of the Catholic Church is the way it was back in the days when the Borgias basically ran the show, with the family patriarch actually getting himself chosen Pope. I wonder if he's noticed that things have changed a bit since then?
Then again, he's always been a man of the people - the wealthy ones, that is. Not exactly the crowd with whom Jesus hung about. Then again, what else can you expect of a chap who governed as if the Golden Rule was 'Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.' Then again, in all fairness perhaps old Jeb's idea of the Catholic Church is the way it was back in the days when the Borgias basically ran the show, with the family patriarch actually getting himself chosen Pope. I wonder if he's noticed that things have changed a bit since then?
6
Since Jeb Bush declares his faith openly
then let the Bishops call him on him to create a government that
seeks to take care of all the People of God and not just the rich and powerful.
then let the Bishops call him on him to create a government that
seeks to take care of all the People of God and not just the rich and powerful.
3
If Mr. Jeb Bush said he converted to Catholicism then he should be the first to condemn his brother’s criminal move in the Middle East. But he didn’t and this is a shame. Anyway, with the new Argentinian Pope, Francis, Mr. Bush will be getting away from the Catholic Church very soon.
5
I find the comments which decry having a "faith based" president interesting. All human beings operate on some theological or philosophical system whether Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or secular humanism. It is that set of principles which guide how we see the world and how we understand right and wrong.
Some folks talk about their own guiding system more than do others, but it is there for each and every one of us. When I, as a liberal, support social programs, I do so not in small part because of what I believe my faith teaches me about how God wants us to live. If I was a politician, I might not talk as much about such things, but they underlie what I believe and what I do.
To assume that any politician can be a decent human being and a moral, upright, 'good' president (or other leader) without any underlying moral system is nonsense. We have checks and balances to assure that those beliefs are filtered through majority opinion and not imposed whole cloth on society as a whole.
Some folks talk about their own guiding system more than do others, but it is there for each and every one of us. When I, as a liberal, support social programs, I do so not in small part because of what I believe my faith teaches me about how God wants us to live. If I was a politician, I might not talk as much about such things, but they underlie what I believe and what I do.
To assume that any politician can be a decent human being and a moral, upright, 'good' president (or other leader) without any underlying moral system is nonsense. We have checks and balances to assure that those beliefs are filtered through majority opinion and not imposed whole cloth on society as a whole.
18
Who says the underlying moral principle has to be religion? Some of the kindest and most honest people I know are atheists.
It's one thing to have some type of religious faith, it's quite another to pick and choose the elements of that faith that suit you and something else again to then foist those elements onto other people who don't share your faith. This is what Jeb is doing and this is what people object to.
It's one thing to have some type of religious faith, it's quite another to pick and choose the elements of that faith that suit you and something else again to then foist those elements onto other people who don't share your faith. This is what Jeb is doing and this is what people object to.
3
Yes, you are right. That an "underlying moral system"is necessary for the presidency is, of course, a no-brainer. However, the pseudo-sophisticates who are likely to nit-pick around that idea, will offer a post post-modern, politically correct something that in effect amounts to nothing. I am an Independent who, if I have to choose between Jeb Bush and Hillary, will choose Jeb Bush because Hillary's "underlying moral system" is slippery at best. The knee-jerk anti-religionists would likely prefer the slippery.
Would an article like this appear if his conversion was to Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism?! I think not! And if it did, I would expect an outcry?! So what?! He is a man of faith, like many of us Americans! His faith should not be the litmus test in a democracy, but whether or not he can govern us effectively!!!
16
Yes, I think the same type article would appear regardles of the conversion. However, I also think his conversion to Catholicism was a big factor in George rather than Jeb being picked by the Bush Family to follow in his Father's footsteps. I also think it will be an innuendo topic for many anti-Bush Activists in Republican Bible Belt Primaries.
1
The article would appear if he attempted to foist his faith on others or insert it into public policy which is what he has done. Did you actually read the piece?
3
It does matter because you must understand that Faith is so close to Fantasy!! We must be assured that the person we are asking to represent us is of complete sound mind and does not adhere to fantasy level beliefs. I love what author Thomas Cole states at the end of his powerful book GOD WHO?... Religious rituals, like ALL rituals, are designed to condition people to a particular controlled state of thinking, and acting! Without human fears and imagination; all religious beliefs would die. Absolute power is only achieved, when one can convince their followers to believe in unbelievable things!"
3
Wasn't there a similar article posted in the Times a few weeks ago regarding whether or not politicians use their so-called "religious" values when they make decisions? Seems like this article supports my position that they do or rather they think they do because all the while these pols say they act using their faith as a guide , it's more like money and power that drives their decisions, otherwise, why do they take "Soft money", lobbyists "gifts" and big campaign $$$ from wealthy contributors, and make decisions favoring these people? As far a Jeb is concerned, i think he just another crooked Bush family member.
14
He's pro- life - but not when it comes to the lives of those on Death Row.
Years ago it became clear to me that capital punishment is wrong: the people who slide by are the ones with money and good lawyers, and people who commit the same crime, if they are poor, and especially if they are poor and black, wind up on Death Row. How fair is that?
By a remarkable coincidence, what Jeb Bush draws from the Catholic faith is precisely what would help him with the Republican base. Is that not surprising? Pope Francis has spoken out against unbridled capitalism and exploitation of the poor. When will Jeb Bush say something about that? Until he does, I regard him as just another politician, using religion for his own political advantage.
Years ago it became clear to me that capital punishment is wrong: the people who slide by are the ones with money and good lawyers, and people who commit the same crime, if they are poor, and especially if they are poor and black, wind up on Death Row. How fair is that?
By a remarkable coincidence, what Jeb Bush draws from the Catholic faith is precisely what would help him with the Republican base. Is that not surprising? Pope Francis has spoken out against unbridled capitalism and exploitation of the poor. When will Jeb Bush say something about that? Until he does, I regard him as just another politician, using religion for his own political advantage.
33
Capital punishment is wrong but not the most wrong; therefore, R.C CAtechism allows for the existence of such law. The application (right or wrong)of it is another question; it depends on the quality of Justice System (people). For ex. the murederer who live out a prison after 25 years and murder again; theerefore, what the next? To decide in other matters in politics one has to take into account all circumstances; an ex. JPII asked personally Mr.Clinton to intervene military in Balkans becasue of the fear of another WWI scenario there; he in another case opposed G.Bush on Iraq (probably because of (naive) hope not offend Muslim)
Wow, several things that are glaring in your comment. First, your view of capital punishment "became clear to you." Now, there's a strong foundation for a belief, eh? NOT! Capital punishment is justice applied, a life for a life. It is not a personal belief at all but an objective moral standard, one necessary for any morality at all. If we follow your "standard," if you are poor it is okay to kill people and society should allow you to escape punishment because you are poor.
Second, the Pope of the Catholic church speaking out against "unbridled capitalism and exploitation of the poor." The words alone describe to a tee the history of the spread of the Catholic church and hegemony for centuries in Europe and still in progress in Latin America, where Catholic exploitation of the poor has been honed to a science.
We do agree, though, that Jeb is like the rest of this rogue family, whose most common initials ought to be branded on each of their buttocks: S&L, for saving and loan scandal, where they became billionaires.
Second, the Pope of the Catholic church speaking out against "unbridled capitalism and exploitation of the poor." The words alone describe to a tee the history of the spread of the Catholic church and hegemony for centuries in Europe and still in progress in Latin America, where Catholic exploitation of the poor has been honed to a science.
We do agree, though, that Jeb is like the rest of this rogue family, whose most common initials ought to be branded on each of their buttocks: S&L, for saving and loan scandal, where they became billionaires.
The Catholic Church is not against the death penalty, they are actually in favor of it. Only since the modernization of the Church after vatican 2 have you heard some prominent "Catholics" speak out against it. Francis speaks only as a man when he speaks of economics, not as the infallible pope. Most of what Francis says is utter gibberish regardless.
The separation of Church and State is guaranteed in our Constitution. He can be guided by his faith all he wants, but he better not impose it on me.
57
Alan - Good luck with that one. They're imposing all they can from abstinence only in public school education to slamming down Planned Parenthoods, to making taxpayers pay for religious voucher schools, in which the money goes directly to the churches (although they claim it does not)
We're under "Christian seige" - in God we trust we are.
We're under "Christian seige" - in God we trust we are.
5
Faith helps inform us of right and wrong. All presidents, including Obama, have stated their religious beliefs. The ridiculous claim that pro-life supporters are all "forcing their religion on us" ignores the fact that those with no faith understand that killing a fetus because it is an inconvenience is wrong.
2
RIGHT!! I want him and every other person running for every office everywhere to be required to read this one book title GOD WHO? by Thomas Cole! If we are to have the best leaders, we need leaders who know all the facts across a wide spectrum!! Most believers DO NOT know the facts presented in this one very powerful book, and worse yet, most believers do not want to know!! Heck, this author has beaten every theologian, minister, priest, Imam, etc he has ever engaged in conversation with, and I have had 2 minister neighbors read it and admit that they could not refute it either!! They were not happy about the book!!! LOL!! The time is now for all of us to address these ancient questionable beliefs, and really take a hard look at this "God" we are told to believe in!!!
1
The saddest and maybe the most tragic aspect of American politics today
is the fact that a person couldn't be elected Sanitation Commissioner without first declaring his or her undying love for an ancient Middle Eastern man who never existed.
The problems we face today won't be solved by piety. In many regards those problems are the fruits of religion's interference in public policy.
is the fact that a person couldn't be elected Sanitation Commissioner without first declaring his or her undying love for an ancient Middle Eastern man who never existed.
The problems we face today won't be solved by piety. In many regards those problems are the fruits of religion's interference in public policy.
15
Actually Jesus did exist as a human being, not everyone believes that he was God.
3
Sadly so VERY TRUE!!! Believers are still the majority, and worse yet is that most believers simply do NOT know the facts about what they think they believe. They listen to what their minister/priest etc. tells them to believe, but they do not, just like their parents, question themselves! In the book GOD WHO? by Thomas Cole the author presents these powerful necessary facts that EVERY believer should and needs to know. I would love to see this book required reading by every person running for office everywhere! Unless we can get to the point where reason and indisputable facts are adhered to by all elected leaders, we will continue on this road into the abyss!!
Suuuuuure it does. Faith, that is. Guide Jeb. Funniest comment I've read since he was a nothing Governor of our state.
13
What an awesome article. To be catholic and proud is admirable and I must add , courageous seeing all these Catholic haters comments. Just an FYI, Catholic means Universal. Catholics share the Universal Truth, that Jesus, God Incarnate came so that we all may have life, in it's fullest. Now, maybe some will rethink their offensive comments.
9
Talk is cheap... his actions are what count and they are pretty much despicable.
24
Your truth. Not likely the truth.
11
I bet u would be rigid with horror if this was an article about his
Faith and its place in his politics life if he were a Muslim.
Our government is to be separate from religion.
Any religion
Thank God.
Faith and its place in his politics life if he were a Muslim.
Our government is to be separate from religion.
Any religion
Thank God.
5
There's very little that's Christian about Bush, or any Republican lawmaker, apparently.
Jesus would be appalled at the budget they just proposed, and how it hurts the old, the poor, and the weak.
Should Bush become President, budgets that benefit the wealthy and hurt everyone else will be the norm.
Jesus would be appalled at the budget they just proposed, and how it hurts the old, the poor, and the weak.
Should Bush become President, budgets that benefit the wealthy and hurt everyone else will be the norm.
38
Precisely. But he's got it all worked out in his head, just how to push his agenda and make sure that the lazy American voter will do whatever he says. People in this nation do not stop to consider the past, the lies, the personal agenda of these power hungry candidates, and what corporations they promote with their policies. The politics of the GOP today has nothing to do with helping the United States - we, the People. Nothing at all.
16
It becomes hilarious when so many know EXACTLY what Jesus would do or say about any situation or under certain conditions. Don't hide behind Jesus.
Bush is a Chino. A Christian in name only. What he also is, is an opportunist, use his office to tout a thin sliver of fundamentalism while bashing the poor, executing prisoners, and forcing women to bear children because he SAYS SO.
Perhaps I'd have less cynicism if Bush had spent the last 10 years actually DOING SOMETHING for those less fortunate than he is, but like all Bushes, he only talks the talk. The Bushes have been in or near the White House for the last 35 years. Each one of them has put in their 5-minutes of helping this nation..... and then has walked away, never to be heard of again.
Oh, yeah.... I'm sure that the "Absolute Nature" resonated with him.
He can't wait to get in and have a field day passing laws against the poor.
What was he said when someone asked him what he would be doing for Blacks? His answer: "Probably nothing."
Oh, yes, a real Christian...... a real Chino.
Perhaps I'd have less cynicism if Bush had spent the last 10 years actually DOING SOMETHING for those less fortunate than he is, but like all Bushes, he only talks the talk. The Bushes have been in or near the White House for the last 35 years. Each one of them has put in their 5-minutes of helping this nation..... and then has walked away, never to be heard of again.
Oh, yeah.... I'm sure that the "Absolute Nature" resonated with him.
He can't wait to get in and have a field day passing laws against the poor.
What was he said when someone asked him what he would be doing for Blacks? His answer: "Probably nothing."
Oh, yes, a real Christian...... a real Chino.
22
Why are Jeb's religious credentials important? I would be more concerned with his secular credentials and if as president will be able to put aside his personal religion and rule according to the law of the land and treat people of different faiths and beliefs equally. I would be more concerned if his Catholic faith impinges on how he conducts himself in office.
13
His faith does impact how he acts in office and not in a good way. We should all be very concerned.
4
Viveka - the article quotes Mr. Bush as saying how important his religion is when he considers policy! That is why religious credentials are so important!
3
A person cannot truly believe in a certain religion/Deity without being discriminatory of others. A leader must be free from any guilt or shame. They must desire the best reality for everyone involved. He cannot be this person.
5
So do you only vote for atheists?
Your "freedom" of any guilt or shame would make someone a very dangerous man.
Everyone has a set of beliefs they espouse- pagans worship the earth, the body, sexual license, social engineering, etc... these are all things that gain special attention and preference from democrats. It's one world view vs. the other is all.
Everyone has a set of beliefs they espouse- pagans worship the earth, the body, sexual license, social engineering, etc... these are all things that gain special attention and preference from democrats. It's one world view vs. the other is all.
God help us from Jeb Bush's faith.
21
Elected officials are by definition, consummate actors. As such, it becomes pracfically futile to attempt to understand what exactly their spiritual beliefs are comprised of.
8
One more reason not to vote for him.
12
The percentage of Republicans who bother to make Comments in the NY Times articles, other than financial perhaps, is probably quite low. Therefore, these comments become the blind leading the more blind to Hillary Clinton
So much for the First Amendment separation of church and state... John F. Kennedy never let his faith get in the way of his duty to uphold the Constitution. Apparently Jeb answers to a "higher power."
Question: if that is the case, why did he lend his name to the Project for the New American Century ("PNAC"), which wrote our Iraq policy from 1997-2000, not to mention premised it on the occurrence of something like 9/11? Copying our World War II Axis enemies (the Reichstag Fire as an excuse for legislation to set up the mechanisms of a dictatorship, invading a neighbor based on lies, and invading a former ally to seize its natural resources) is hardly Christian in any sense.
Question: if that is the case, why did he lend his name to the Project for the New American Century ("PNAC"), which wrote our Iraq policy from 1997-2000, not to mention premised it on the occurrence of something like 9/11? Copying our World War II Axis enemies (the Reichstag Fire as an excuse for legislation to set up the mechanisms of a dictatorship, invading a neighbor based on lies, and invading a former ally to seize its natural resources) is hardly Christian in any sense.
10
Yes, and Kennedy never let faith get in the way of his personal life either and that is a shame.
1
Name on faith based initiative of GW Bush that was not a cover for pumping cash to the religious right in exchange for votes.
15
Jeb Bush and Newt Gingrich! What a pair! Both "converted" because of their wives!
12
In Newt's case, which wife? Something about divorce, fidelity and Catholicism that I can't remember at this moment.
That he never seemed to learn.
That he never seemed to learn.
3
That's because women in marriage are the guide for men. They have enormous influence over them and men, if they are honest, know this quite well.
It's been said that the converts are more Catholic than the Catholics. I detest any man who wants to force a child of thirteen to give birth and force a feeding tube into a woman who is brain dead. Bush is a zealot who wants to force his religious views on others. How convenient that he departs from the Catholic Church's doctrines when he wants to position himself with hard -line law and order voters. Does he ever wonder about possibly executing an innocent man? Probably not.
28
Imagine the SCOTUS nominations out of this guy.
22
CK....while you were out, notice that all of the so-called "conservative" justices are also.....CATHOLIC.
2
What every voter should be asking themselves the motive behind this new bush - another two bushes shielding this one for another go at Presidency, Beware everyone.
8
He delivered the election for his brother. That's no recommendation.
19
I wonder how his conversion will play out within the Party's born-again base. They seemed to have given Newt a pass four years ago as no one bothered to inquire as to what it was about Evangelicalism that he found unfulfilling. Yes, we know: he changed his faith to satisfy his hot and healthy new wife but, for obvious reasons. he could never attest to that.
9
stu......I think you fail to grasp some of the basics of the religious base.
The "born-again" folks represent a tiny minority these days.
We used to call these folks "fundamentalists" which they were, and remain to this day.
When we had a frontier, the "fundamentalists" simply kept to themselves, practiced as they saw fit, and tolerated the differing religious view points..........This was America. "Attend the Church of Your Choice".
Well, we ran out of frontier, the "fundamentalists" were forced to accept things that did not fit into their world view....and it became political......and so the Moral Majority was born out of Fundamentalism.
The Moral Majority quickly died out, as the politicians took it over.............they killed it.
Now today we have "Evangelicals" which is actually a very deceptive term for "Roman Catholics".
Evangelicals seek to impose their religious views on society...in a very RC way.
It is no accident that "right to life", "abortion", "middle eastern crusades", "legal torture" are all very, very catholic issues. Every abortion doctor ever killed.....was killed by a fervant catholic.....never by a "fundamentalist"
Its gotten so out of hand that Mike Huckabee, supposedly a Baptist Preacher, proclaims "We're all Roman Catholics Now!!"
This is insane.
The "born-again" folks represent a tiny minority these days.
We used to call these folks "fundamentalists" which they were, and remain to this day.
When we had a frontier, the "fundamentalists" simply kept to themselves, practiced as they saw fit, and tolerated the differing religious view points..........This was America. "Attend the Church of Your Choice".
Well, we ran out of frontier, the "fundamentalists" were forced to accept things that did not fit into their world view....and it became political......and so the Moral Majority was born out of Fundamentalism.
The Moral Majority quickly died out, as the politicians took it over.............they killed it.
Now today we have "Evangelicals" which is actually a very deceptive term for "Roman Catholics".
Evangelicals seek to impose their religious views on society...in a very RC way.
It is no accident that "right to life", "abortion", "middle eastern crusades", "legal torture" are all very, very catholic issues. Every abortion doctor ever killed.....was killed by a fervant catholic.....never by a "fundamentalist"
Its gotten so out of hand that Mike Huckabee, supposedly a Baptist Preacher, proclaims "We're all Roman Catholics Now!!"
This is insane.
1
Oh enough said with the picture within the article....
Mr. Bush bowed his head in prayer before a state cabinet meeting in Tallahassee, Fla., in 2000.
Mr. Bush bowed his head in prayer before a state cabinet meeting in Tallahassee, Fla., in 2000.
8
Women's civil and reproductive rights are trampled over the globe. The Catholic Church is not a solution but a huge part of those problems world wide.
26
If he was really honest, he would have encouraged atheism in prisoners, because epidemiologically that is the least frequent "belief-system" in the population.
Faith is not a plan.
Faith is not a plan.
4
Can a person reflect on his personal beliefs without being criticized? It is amazing how narrow and prejudiced are many of the comments on this article. There is more hate than love in most of the comments. It is a sad reflection on our society or maybe just on the small number of folks who commented here. Think more positively. Give your brother some love. Cheer up!
7
When I reflect on my personal beliefs (with or without being criticized) I am not on the front page of the New York times nor am I claiming that my beliefs further my sense of entitlement to the presidency of the United States.
Therein lies the rub.
Since he promotes his religious beliefs, his hypocrisy therein is open to public review and response. That's not hate or prejudice; it is the public duty.
Therein lies the rub.
Since he promotes his religious beliefs, his hypocrisy therein is open to public review and response. That's not hate or prejudice; it is the public duty.
16
He's pretty well hated, yes.
4
There's enough religion in politics as it is, along with it's attendant hypocrisy.
7
When a democrat mentions their religion, they are praised for having principles.
When a republican mentions their religion, they are condemned as lacking logic.
The hypocrisy of this double standard is unnerving...
When a republican mentions their religion, they are condemned as lacking logic.
The hypocrisy of this double standard is unnerving...
5
Name the democrat running up a religion flag to attract voters.
12
Has anyone ever heard of Cuomo of New York? Catholic --Pro -choice--Pro- gay rights---He caters to the liberal platform and wants everyone to know he is Catholic. Why can he use his religion as a platform and no one cares, but a Republican Catholic using his religion to guide him is not acceptable? Such a double standard!
2
Patty - Great example, Cuomo isn't trying to insert his religion into public policy. See the difference?
3
Choosing life does not mean overseeing capital punishment.
11
Jeb Bush, has my vote. 2016 cannot come soon enough! Remember 9/11, and where the opposition is today. Let's keep this a society of Judeo-Christian values, where humanity has progressed and flourished. All those in opposition are ungrateful of how far Christianity has brought us, whether you believe in it or not.
2
Let's just keep our secular values, as the founders of the republic wished.
And Christianity has brought mankind far enough; backwards that is.
And Christianity has brought mankind far enough; backwards that is.
13
Remember the two expensive and senseless wars that followed 9/11? Remember the great recession? If that's what you call progressing and flourishing, I've got a really nice bridge to sell you and I'll throw in a soon to be ex-governor for free.
5
Christianity is far from backwards. Truth is universal. The founders created laws based on Judeo-Christian ideology. Read your history. Scary that your thought process would end Christianity. Not seen mankind progress under the dark clutches of a backward society living in this century.
Bush's Catholicism may be who he is, but it's not who I am, and when he uses his faith to justify or underpin his political decisions on abortion, Terry Schiavo, rape victims, women's health or anything else, then it is an imposition of his faith on the rest of us. It's always interesting to see how these deeply religious Republicans bring their beliefs to bear on their decisions about the poor, the hungry, the aged and the infirm. I guess their faith just doesn't trickle down that far. Hypocrites, the lot of them.
24
As I read this article I became filled with despair and revulsion about the religious pandering that is the calling card of so many politicians, almost all of them Republicans.
If you ever want my vote, stop....er, marketing your particular religion for votes.
In fact, just stop talking about your religion at all. With each utterance, I resolve anew to never, ever vote for a Republican for the rest of my life.
If you ever want my vote, stop....er, marketing your particular religion for votes.
In fact, just stop talking about your religion at all. With each utterance, I resolve anew to never, ever vote for a Republican for the rest of my life.
20
It's all they have, they can't run on the economy, education or foreign affairs so they fall back on religion.
4
We seen Jeb's true colors in 2000 when the state he governed manipulated the vote count to create enough confusion for the right wingers on the Supreme Court to make his brother President. That proved a disaster for this country and the world. Jesus does not approve corruption and torture and murder. And those are three of the core values of the Bush family. A vote for Jeb will be a vote for more of the suffering and death his father and brother have inflicted on the world.
19
I heard a broadcast on C Span of Jeb addressing a gathering in New Hampshire. I was impressed by his articulate description of his position on wide range of issues. If HRC is the Dem nominee and Bush is the Republican, it will make for interesting debates: shrill vs even keeled and cogent.
2
You can fault Hillary for many things (as I do) but "shrill"? She's remarkably even-tempered in debate settings and on the stump in general leading many of us to wonder where the passion is.
17
Jeez, he jumped from High Episcopalian to Roman Catholic. What a reach! Even adherents of his old sect like to characterize it as "All the pomp without the pope."
http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2014/04/10/saint-john-the-evangel...
And Roman Catholics actually get "credit" for attending Episcopal masses. (Satisfies their Sunday obligation.)
In the 1940's, my own father converted (from Methodism) in order to marry my Catholic mother. Though my grandmother never really accepted it, she and my mother got along just fine.
Give the guy a pass on this one. Looks like he has a successful marriage and a great family. If Paris is worth a mass, so is family harmony.
P.S. Clinton Democrat here. I'll never vote for him.
http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2014/04/10/saint-john-the-evangel...
And Roman Catholics actually get "credit" for attending Episcopal masses. (Satisfies their Sunday obligation.)
In the 1940's, my own father converted (from Methodism) in order to marry my Catholic mother. Though my grandmother never really accepted it, she and my mother got along just fine.
Give the guy a pass on this one. Looks like he has a successful marriage and a great family. If Paris is worth a mass, so is family harmony.
P.S. Clinton Democrat here. I'll never vote for him.
1
No, Roman Catholics do not get "credit" for attending Episcopal services. It absolutely does not satisfy their Sunday obligation.
2
Like so many Evangelicals, the Roman Catholic Bush thinks that the fetus is the most important person in America. He considers the life of the fetus to be precious.
Like the Evangelicals, the Catholic Bush considers the life of convicted criminals to be worthless. He executed as many as possible.
Like the Evangelicals, he had no compassion on the poor, despite the message so clear in Christ's teaching.
In other words, preventing abortions is the only way in which is faith affects his governing principles.
Like the Evangelicals, the Catholic Bush considers the life of convicted criminals to be worthless. He executed as many as possible.
Like the Evangelicals, he had no compassion on the poor, despite the message so clear in Christ's teaching.
In other words, preventing abortions is the only way in which is faith affects his governing principles.
14
Bush: "“I loved the absolute nature of the Catholic Church."
Although Mr. Bush may not have taken note, the Catholic Church's has changed positions on certain issues over time, e.g., usury, the death penalty, interpretation and historicity of the Bible, religious liberty and war, to name a few.
One position that the Church has held firm on over the years is in the area of economic justice, especially the rights of workers to organize and bargain collectively for a living wage and benefits required to secure their human dignity. My guess is that he has about as much interest in defending the Church's teaching that protects the rights of workers as he has had in for supporting the Church's position on ending the death penalty.
Bush may now be a Catholic, but am certain that we can all count on his politics forming his faith beliefs more than any teaching of the church that now claims his loyalty.
Although Mr. Bush may not have taken note, the Catholic Church's has changed positions on certain issues over time, e.g., usury, the death penalty, interpretation and historicity of the Bible, religious liberty and war, to name a few.
One position that the Church has held firm on over the years is in the area of economic justice, especially the rights of workers to organize and bargain collectively for a living wage and benefits required to secure their human dignity. My guess is that he has about as much interest in defending the Church's teaching that protects the rights of workers as he has had in for supporting the Church's position on ending the death penalty.
Bush may now be a Catholic, but am certain that we can all count on his politics forming his faith beliefs more than any teaching of the church that now claims his loyalty.
12
I'd not allow you your compliment vis a vis economic justice, for centuries the Catholic Church was the power behind the divine right of Kings to absolute power over all of their subjects. And at most times in all of it's history, The Church dis-empowered women economically by denying them freedom to control their bodies, or leave their husbands even when the might be incestuous drunks.
6
CHINO> CHristian In Name Only.
4
It appears Jeb Bush is not knowledgeable about the advances in astronomy in the 20th century that have explained why gods, ghosts, devils, and other man-made religious-based phenomenon are impossible.
We need a modern president who has been strong enough to have stepped away from the dark robes of agenda-driven organized religion. We need someone who believes solutions to problems don't come from the sky, but are the result of brilliant human minds. Its time we forget the name Bush, whatever the first name, which is associated with lies, deceit and abuse of office.
We need a modern president who has been strong enough to have stepped away from the dark robes of agenda-driven organized religion. We need someone who believes solutions to problems don't come from the sky, but are the result of brilliant human minds. Its time we forget the name Bush, whatever the first name, which is associated with lies, deceit and abuse of office.
15
An honest and decent man. Reasonable in his religious beliefs as he is in his other views.
6
Honest? Explain how he gamed the system as Governor of Florida to help his brother get elected. Decent? He injected his moral compass into Terry Schiavo's family's personal decision. Reasonable? Maybe if you are an oil tycoon or a Saudi Prince.
He is an elitist pretending.
He is an elitist pretending.
12
Reasonable in his religious beliefs? Is it reasonable to believe that all life is sacred and then execute people ? Oddly enough his newfound church is way ahead of him on this one. Despite it's own outrageous hypocrisies.
8
Where do Stand Your Ground laws fit in with reasonable beliefs, religious or otherwise?
4
That is wonderful. Fall right in line behind Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts (along with your incurious brother) who also let their faith and absolute (rigid) beliefs guide their conscience and decisions. Hypocrites, all of them, who use their religion to cherry pick political positions based on dogma. In a complex world filled with gray areas, the last thing this country needs is another "leader" guided by something else besides facts, logic and a full understanding of how the world works.
30
I don't understand why Christians think it is okay to not help the poor, the sick, the homeless?
24
Many of them feel that insofar as they are blessed, as so Jeb is, for example, it's because of some divine merit, and not because they're heirs to legacy money they didn't earn. So if you aren't one of them, you aren't blessed, and you don't deserve to have their blessings redistributed to you by Godless Socialism.
6
I'm so tired of having religion shoved down my throat by people who wouldn't recognize Jesus if they saw him as he would be ministering to the poor and destitute not groveling to the 1%.
64
As a non-religious person, I find the issue of religion more one of the level of orthodoxy practiced by the person. Compliant orthodox Christians, Muslims and Jews are shockingly similar in basic their views of women, marriage, sexuality, and in general lack tolerance. Strong religious beliefs from the major religions also tend to allow people to ignore input and justify behavior based on their internal compass.
Regardless of their public statements, I would ask each candidate to speak on their level of orthodoxy. The main difference between Clinton and Bush appears to be Clintons' clear break from their core religious beliefs regardless of the public statements. Their personal actions seem devoid of a moral compass. Bush seems the opposite. Unfortunately, I have choose the unethical pragmatist over the moral social conservative
Regardless of their public statements, I would ask each candidate to speak on their level of orthodoxy. The main difference between Clinton and Bush appears to be Clintons' clear break from their core religious beliefs regardless of the public statements. Their personal actions seem devoid of a moral compass. Bush seems the opposite. Unfortunately, I have choose the unethical pragmatist over the moral social conservative
7
You could ask all you like about orthodoxy, their actions speak louder than any made-for-campaigning answers you'd get. No politician has character beyond his ambitions.
Wait, orthodox Christians and orthodox Muslims are "shockingly" similar?
Funny I have not read about a shocking act committed by a Christian as, for example, beheading people for their religious views, forcing pre-adolescent girls to be their wives or desecrating other peoples' religious and historical treasures.
Your lack of nuance demonstrates an ignorance beyond comprehension.
Funny I have not read about a shocking act committed by a Christian as, for example, beheading people for their religious views, forcing pre-adolescent girls to be their wives or desecrating other peoples' religious and historical treasures.
Your lack of nuance demonstrates an ignorance beyond comprehension.
2
Apparently, you cannot distinguish between criminal elements of a religious group and the term orthodox. I don't consider the KKK as a Christian organization or those who kill abortion doctors.
2
Bush's "faith" is incredibly interventionist, aka, sticking his nose in the end of life decisions of Terry Schaivo. This was the most shocking abuse of political power by a governor in decades. We don't need leaders who push their faith an dvalues, we need leaders who understand what it means to govern effectively.
21
That is why the good old USA is going backwards in politics. And if they are true to their 'religion,' they should not use for selfish benefit.
Leaders should be guided by reason, also emotion; not by faith what they don't understand.
Leaders should be guided by reason, also emotion; not by faith what they don't understand.
6
Where is the reflection on the content of his faith, on what Jesus actually asked his followers to undertake on his behalf? It is not enough to "have faith," to take Christ as your saviour, if you are Catholic: that's a Protestant concept, that faith from grace is what matters. Catholics believe in good works, in living the life. For him to say that what he cares about is "absolute truth" means, to me, that what he values is not having to sweat the judgement himself. And even then, when he disagrees with his professed religion, as with capital punishment, he feels free to ignore it--just not when he doesn't want to.
9
God help us! Now Jeb is going to play holy roller while he campaigns for president . Like W. wasn't enough.
I was catholic once and I recall that Jesus hung out with his apostles, who only numbered around 12, and spent much time building His franchise by working with the poor and innocent. Obviously, Hope sells ( and without real inventory).
Now we have the consummate One percenter who will be trying to convince the "poor" to give back as much as possible to the one percenters by allowing Them ongoing " tax reductions" in the name of Jesus. . He will also be trying to privatize Medicare, eliminate social security, and gut medicaid. The holy Bush will of course want to UP the Offense budget, ( so his apostles never want for business) and dismantle whatever might be left of the ACA after SCOTUS deals with it.
Somehow his political goals will be far out of sync with what his religion espouses. The interesting part is how his eventual 'following" will conveniently overlook his contradiction, and for most of them, at their own expense.
Guess thats why Jeb is a "man of faith". He believes in the con, and he may yet make it work for him.
I was catholic once and I recall that Jesus hung out with his apostles, who only numbered around 12, and spent much time building His franchise by working with the poor and innocent. Obviously, Hope sells ( and without real inventory).
Now we have the consummate One percenter who will be trying to convince the "poor" to give back as much as possible to the one percenters by allowing Them ongoing " tax reductions" in the name of Jesus. . He will also be trying to privatize Medicare, eliminate social security, and gut medicaid. The holy Bush will of course want to UP the Offense budget, ( so his apostles never want for business) and dismantle whatever might be left of the ACA after SCOTUS deals with it.
Somehow his political goals will be far out of sync with what his religion espouses. The interesting part is how his eventual 'following" will conveniently overlook his contradiction, and for most of them, at their own expense.
Guess thats why Jeb is a "man of faith". He believes in the con, and he may yet make it work for him.
19
Bush is not a centrist on education. He is a corporatist, i.e., one who believes public funds should be siphoned to cronies in the for-profit sector.
25
So his marriage is foundering, and his wife always goes to mass, so he decides to convert? Good golly, Mr.. Bush, if your wife had been a jihadist, would you have converted to Islam? She apparently was successful in imposing Her faith on you to keep your marriage going, and it sounds like you're now ready to impose your faith on the rest of us. You Republicans want freedom, independence, liberty, and keep-government-out-of-our-business -- except when it comes to using government to impose your faith on us non-Catholics. Sorry, Jeb -- that bird don't fly!
18
Governor Jeb Bush is a good and decent man, and his conversion to Catholicism is his business. How illiberal of those here who spite the Church on those old saws: anti-science; anti-american; anti-democratic, etc. That the Gov used the word 'absolute' with respect to the nature of the Church is unfortunate, I'm sure what appealed to him is the steadfastness of the Church, an institution unbending in the media winds, and modern fads. The Church, in fact, isn't very absolutist on any matter except evil (avoid it) and love (do it).
12
Does manipulating an election to get one's brother elected count as evil?
13
You beat me to it. There is no absolute truth as know it, have ever known it, or will know it at least in regard to all humans who have ever lived or will live on this small blue planet
I do like what you said at the end. Evil, avoid it, love, do it. How simple, how Christ like.
I do like what you said at the end. Evil, avoid it, love, do it. How simple, how Christ like.
3
Since when did the Church amend it's stand on women being less equal than men? When did it rectify it's treatment of homosexuals? And really how does an institution which is the epitome of a hierarchy become a steadfast supporter of democracy? The church is in fact absolutist and has been since Roman times.
5
If he claims to be a Catholic he should familiarize himself with Matthew 25:40-45.
13
Claims? He is a Catholic.
3
Just what we need. Another political leader bringing superstition and false premises to the public square. Let him leave his religion at home and observe our magnificent separation of church and state by limiting his governing to rational analysis and discourse. "Faith" guided his brother to starting the war in Iraq. Hopefully the Bush brothers didn't attend the same yeshiva.
36
Let me say that I am much more impressed by what an individual does with his or her faith - any faith - than I am in learning what am individual claims that faith has done for him or her. n that regard, I find irreconcilable and undermining contradictions in (among other things) what Jeb Bush failed to do with the adopted, “absolutist” faith he claims to be so moved by and his execution of 21 human beings while going to extraordinarily intrusive lengths seeking to keep Terry Schiavo on “life” support, asserting the person-hood of a fetus and championing a “choose-life” themed license plate.
34
You gotta love the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. They expect blind obedience to their dogma from believers. But Repbulican Catholic politicians, as witnessed by Mr. Bush's fevered embrace of the death penalty, they get to pick choose cafeteria style with nary a peep from the bishops and the cardinals. And they wonder why their Churches are empty.
28
Funny, I read about how the Bishops constantly lobbied against the death penalty. I guess you skipped that part of the story...
1
Sorry, pm you might like their churches to be empty, but they are not. Like it or not ( I am agnostic but admire many aspects of the Catholic church), about 40% of Americans attend church weekly, as do about 40% of Catholics. The U.S is the most religious country in the economically advanced world.
1
I, too, attended church weekly along with most of the members of my large Irish and Italian family.
Our parents made us go.
Our parents made us go.
3
I saw one comment that said this was a puff piece. By my own count this is the fourth exclusive Jeb article outside the opinion pages and the first which is just an expose. I give it a very well done. I didn't need the run down on Terri Shivo which in Fl had support and would also point out that he held the line on late term abortion which is voted down anywhere it gets on the ballot. In this respect whatever his faith you may call him a conservative populist. Another commenter said social justice is the heart of the Catholic Faith and this is wrong. Jesus Christ is/was not a social worker. And the real fact of the matter is it is catholics like Rubio and Ryan who are offering nuanced and well thought out plans to alleviate the systemic origins of poverty- the ones that Catholic democrats like Nancy Pelosi only pay lip service to.
If Jeb is happy with his faith more power to him. Hopefully it will inspire him to back off the Islamophillia that passes for a foreign policy and resume the American mission to the Vatican that Obama closed. This happening during the same term as his naming an "ambassador" to the muslim world is I think instructive.
To review Jeb goes about his faith modestly and privately by going to church among other things. Pelosi is very public about being Catholic and attends mass twice yearly but does highlight her faith during arrest dramas at immigration rallies. Personally, I like the quiet mind my own buisness approach to Church going.
If Jeb is happy with his faith more power to him. Hopefully it will inspire him to back off the Islamophillia that passes for a foreign policy and resume the American mission to the Vatican that Obama closed. This happening during the same term as his naming an "ambassador" to the muslim world is I think instructive.
To review Jeb goes about his faith modestly and privately by going to church among other things. Pelosi is very public about being Catholic and attends mass twice yearly but does highlight her faith during arrest dramas at immigration rallies. Personally, I like the quiet mind my own buisness approach to Church going.
6
Rubio, Ryan? Give me a break. Also, what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with the discussion? Sounds like you are bringing your own politics into the argument rather than arguing on the merit of Bush's actions, actions which contradict what he says about his beliefs. And from what I've read, that seems to be the main objection of 99% of the comments. I.E. he don't walk the walk. As a resident of Florida, I have seen it first hand.
4
This is the most deluded comment I've seen. Jeb has inserted his religion into public policy and you call that being quiet and minding one's one business?
6
The Halloween that I was 10 years old, my mother walked door-to-door with me, handing out "Vote for LBJ" pamphlets. I asked her why our family supported the Democrats. She told me that Republicans were for the rich and big corporations, and the Democrats were for the little guy and small business. Since we were also Catholic, and in school we were always praying for and collecting for the poor, and JFK had been a Catholic, I equated being Catholic with being a Democrat, too. Jeb Bush a Catholic?? No way!!
20
He's the gov of a Latino demographic. THAT's why he's Catholic.
8
Religious conversion,,,,,,,,,,, it's like switching seats on the Titanic.
15
It would be wonderful if a candidate, just once, would say that he or she was "guided" by his/her experience, education, logic, and the considered advice of appropriately expert advisors.
Flying by the seat of our religious pants landed us in Iraq and seems now to be "guiding" us to a military confrontation with Iran.
Flying by the seat of our religious pants landed us in Iraq and seems now to be "guiding" us to a military confrontation with Iran.
52
"As a public leader, one’s faith should guide you"
Al Qaeda, ISIS and the Iran leadership couldn't agree more.
Al Qaeda, ISIS and the Iran leadership couldn't agree more.
54
Jeb's brother George said Jesus Christ was his favorite philosopher and then enthusiastically used torture methods practiced by good Christians during the Inquisition. Dear Jesus please protect us from your followers.
11
And so would Rev Martin Luther King Jr. Care to rethink your statement?
1
surgres - Martin Luther King wasn't running for elected office and he never advocated forcing other people to live their lives according to his religion.
2
Maybe after we confirm the separation of church and state, we can separate Jeb from public life. No mas.
29
Oh puleeaassee…NOT the religion card, again…
Aren't we supposed to have a separation of church and state? Aren't we supposed to keep our faith to ourselves and turn inward? Aren't our elected (or unelected) leaders supposed to shun the religious limelight or organizations like the uber-catholic Opus Dei secret societies - of which Supreme Court Judge Scalia is a member? Isn't our piety a quality that should not be worn on every sleeve like some red badge of religious courage? Or conversion?
This pandering to the masses at mass is an embarrassment of poor political judgement that is dragged out to every pew in hither and yon to prove, once again, that behind every billionaire is a hand-shaking, palm-squeezing, back-slapping man of La Mancha-like political hack trying to raise his street creds with those who actually might believe.
Enough already. If he really wanted to make a difference, he'd drop a few hundred G's in the collection plate as an anonymous donor.
Aren't we supposed to have a separation of church and state? Aren't we supposed to keep our faith to ourselves and turn inward? Aren't our elected (or unelected) leaders supposed to shun the religious limelight or organizations like the uber-catholic Opus Dei secret societies - of which Supreme Court Judge Scalia is a member? Isn't our piety a quality that should not be worn on every sleeve like some red badge of religious courage? Or conversion?
This pandering to the masses at mass is an embarrassment of poor political judgement that is dragged out to every pew in hither and yon to prove, once again, that behind every billionaire is a hand-shaking, palm-squeezing, back-slapping man of La Mancha-like political hack trying to raise his street creds with those who actually might believe.
Enough already. If he really wanted to make a difference, he'd drop a few hundred G's in the collection plate as an anonymous donor.
24
'I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute - where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote - where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference - and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source - where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials - and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.'
~ John F. Kennedy
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source - where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials - and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.'
~ John F. Kennedy
32
We have fallen a long way from this; note how amorphous politics has become when a Democract-President Kennedy had to defend his ability to govern without imposing his religion, where as today he would have to convince people he will....
13
Unfortunately there is still an anti-Catholic sentiment in this country and I suspect there always will be. 50 years later and the whole issue of Catholic politicians has to be fought all over again. I would never vote for Bush, but I think the Times included this piece to rile up the anti-Catholic sentiment again.
At this point I'm HORRIBLY suspicious of ANY politician who wants to trumpet his or her "faith." As a life-long church-goer I put great reliance on Matthew 6:5 which tells us to pray in private.
Would that we never heard about any politician's "faith" again. Instead, why not try discussing ISSUES that may be informed by their "faith," like abortion or equal marriage rights...
Would that we never heard about any politician's "faith" again. Instead, why not try discussing ISSUES that may be informed by their "faith," like abortion or equal marriage rights...
19
America certainly doesn't need any more leaders that make decisions based on their gut feelings or their faith. What we need are leaders that can make the best choices for the people driven by actual facts and real evidence.
Religion is based upon faith. Which essentially means believing things without evidence. Having faith leads to all kinds of unjustifiable beliefs and decisions. Personally, I have no problem with individuals or families leading their lives based upon their faith. But please, please, please don't force the rest of the nation (or the world) to suffer the consequences of leaders that make their decisions based upon their faith.
Religion is based upon faith. Which essentially means believing things without evidence. Having faith leads to all kinds of unjustifiable beliefs and decisions. Personally, I have no problem with individuals or families leading their lives based upon their faith. But please, please, please don't force the rest of the nation (or the world) to suffer the consequences of leaders that make their decisions based upon their faith.
21
Amen
3
“You hear people say, ‘I don’t want to impose my faith,’ ” Mr. Bush told the newspaper The Florida Catholic days after leaving office in 2007. “Well, it’s not an imposition of faith. It’s who you are.”
Mr. Bush's actions demonstrate that "who he is" is a person who imposes his faith. But his is the kind of fuzzy logic one might expect of someone who says his faith helps him "think clearer."
Mr. Bush's actions demonstrate that "who he is" is a person who imposes his faith. But his is the kind of fuzzy logic one might expect of someone who says his faith helps him "think clearer."
22
A good man . . .
A lot of you NYT commenters need to stop with the knee jerk comments
and reflect on what's really in front of you.
A lot of you NYT commenters need to stop with the knee jerk comments
and reflect on what's really in front of you.
7
How do you know he's a good man- do you know him personally? He is running for President, with a large political machine gearing up on how he will be presented, on what he will be made to look like, etc. Unfortunately, he will become whom or what he represents - not who he is.
7
Not a good man, in many's opinion
9
What would that be? In front of us?
Yeah, and his brother professed to have taken an intensive Bible stud class. Didn't stop him from lying or starting two wars. We're not electing bishops or popes. We're electing presidents.
43
I'm looking for evidence of spiritual transformation such that looking at Jeb Bush is like looking at Christ as is evinced by Pope Francis or Desmond Tutu or Nelson Mandela. Just claiming to have faith means nothing, in fact it is worse than nothing. Is Jeb Bush a pharisaical Catholic who feels entitled to protect his religious rights at the expense of women and children and gays or is he the embodiment of God's love for the weakest and most vulnerable members of society? I'm guessing the former but I would love to be surprised and find the latter.
24
Ot is also pandering to the Hispanic vote.
2
Wow just yesterday I was reading how we should have the govt. give everyone free healthcare because that is what Jesus would want. Now many here comment the Jeb's Catholicism is a threat to the perceived separation of church and state. The duplicity is always amazing. It would be nice if I could pick what taxes I want to pay, and the ones I don't. That's how many here invoke Christianity.
6
Have you noticed that Jeb's Catholicism doesn't follow any of Christ's teachings? It's his claim to be religious while behaving in a way that isn't that's so harmful.
2
Jeb, one simple question: of what relevance is your claimed faith, which is not shared by 75% of all Americans? Last time I looked, the President represented ALL Americans, not just his personal friends and corporate donors. What say you?
15
Why does everyone seem appalled that he is influenced by the values of the Catholic Church, which helps him make certain decisions? It's not as though he's going to implement Catholic Shari'a Law in the U.S. or make contraception illegal. And if the majority of people in America happen to vote for him and his "crazy" religious views, does that mean our country has gone mad and is rejecting anything to do with progress and modernity? Sounds pretty hypocritical to label church-goers that way, doesn't it?
Anyone would agree that President Obama makes plenty of decisions based on race (sending Eric Holder to Ferguson, inviting Al Sharpton to the WH a countless number of times). So, wouldn't you say he is making race-based decisions like Gov. Bush is making religion-based decisions? EVERYONE makes decisions based on a part of elements of personality, upbringing or background. The voters decide which elements are permissible.
Anyone would agree that President Obama makes plenty of decisions based on race (sending Eric Holder to Ferguson, inviting Al Sharpton to the WH a countless number of times). So, wouldn't you say he is making race-based decisions like Gov. Bush is making religion-based decisions? EVERYONE makes decisions based on a part of elements of personality, upbringing or background. The voters decide which elements are permissible.
7
Al Sharpton's presence in the White House didn't impact my access to health care and President Obama has never inserted himself into someone's most personal medical decisions. Your comparison is ludicrous.
1
There's to many people on the left and right claiming some moral high ground above their political rivals. The right in Texas claimed they were morally right to use a dead woman as an incubator for her unborn against families wishes. The child died. There was no morality in the political grandstanding those politicians did. The left and libertarians push for assisted suicide not considering why it's not part of our culture.
Can we do the right thing and leave claims to a higher morality out of it?
Can we do the right thing and leave claims to a higher morality out of it?
4
Article 6 of the Constitution:
"...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States"
It's disturbing that voters would even think that a candidate's "faith" qualifies him for the highest office in our land and shameful that candidates would welcome such a litmus test.
"...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States"
It's disturbing that voters would even think that a candidate's "faith" qualifies him for the highest office in our land and shameful that candidates would welcome such a litmus test.
18
In "Correction", we have:"Mr. Bush did not join the Episcopal Church of his wife". ?????
How satisfying it is to submit a comment not charged with either religious or secular emotionalism.
How satisfying it is to submit a comment not charged with either religious or secular emotionalism.
I remember viewing a documentary where the G.H.W. Bush team recommended numerous ways to capture evangelical voters during his run for the presidency in 1988. Looks like both sons learned critical lessons from their father.
13
if your not a religious person then why do you think you have any idea what you are talking about? you call liberals or progressives "or what ever they are." you cannot even define them, so please keep your opinions to yourself.
4
Mr. Bush is a Catholic in name only. While I don't agree with the church on going back to the days of illegal abortions, I do find Catholics' stance on life to be consistent. They are as anti-abortion as they are anti-death penalty. They believe only God has the right to give or take life. Not Jeb Bush. He has the blood of 21 murders he committed as Governor of Florida on his hands. He is a hypocrite and and embarrassment to his faith.
6
Yuck! Who would want a President who believed such rank nonsense? What kind of a mind does it take to believe that a Ritz cracker, after a few words of mumbo jumbo from some psychologically stunted pedophile turns into the actual body of a 2000 year old Hebrew who was at the same time his own father (and never had a proper mother)?
Do we really want a "faith based" government? "Faith" is believing things without rational evidence, or (even worse) contrary to evidence. How could "faith" be anything other than a recipe for stupidity?
Do we really want a "faith based" government? "Faith" is believing things without rational evidence, or (even worse) contrary to evidence. How could "faith" be anything other than a recipe for stupidity?
13
Another atheist fundamentalist, glorying in the freedom to be as nasty as he needs to be.
6
“As a public leader, one’s faith should guide you,” Mr. Bush said in Italy in 2009...." Well, there's precedent for that. His brother certainly allowed his faith to guide his administrative policies. Look at how well that worked out for the rest of us.
The constitution of this republic is guidance enough for our elected officials.
The constitution of this republic is guidance enough for our elected officials.
11
" ... he has said his religious beliefs helped inform his concern about child welfare ..."
Myth buyer, rapturing before the rupturing: the genocide, rape, and starvation pain of the methane end game.
"I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder.
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore." Leonard Cohen: The Future
Myth buyer, rapturing before the rupturing: the genocide, rape, and starvation pain of the methane end game.
"I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder.
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore." Leonard Cohen: The Future
8
The Second Coming.
Read Ron Susskind's 2004 article on Jeb's older brother, but be ye not afraid, http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html. Faith gives the Bushies their moral certainty in a way that none of the rest of us have any access to. Funny how that works.
If I didn't know better, I'd swear that a Jeb "communications director" sent this article to the Times. Other than laying the groundwork with the evangelical right, what purpose does the article serve? Other than Jeb Bush's campaign?
The Times can, should, and must do better than producing puff pieces on a guy who wants to sit in the Oval making decisions that will affect millions. Including both me and Michael Paulson!
I for one am not comforted by the fact that he has "faith" to guide him.
An earlier Times piece painted an indelible picture of Jeb as a political panderer of the most exquisite order, using his Dad's influence to build his own base in Florida. Willing to do anything, ask any favor of his father's administration if it helped his own political career. It made you sick, his relentless favor requests and "personal notes" to Bush's Chief of Staff, as well as Cabinet members. The strong inference was that his father's staff considered him to be an annoying pain in the butt.
That's who he really is. But now the Times has given him religious cover, so what we're really supposed to think is that he's an OK guy.
The truth is he's just a smarter version of W.
Read Ron Susskind's 2004 article on Jeb's older brother, but be ye not afraid, http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html. Faith gives the Bushies their moral certainty in a way that none of the rest of us have any access to. Funny how that works.
If I didn't know better, I'd swear that a Jeb "communications director" sent this article to the Times. Other than laying the groundwork with the evangelical right, what purpose does the article serve? Other than Jeb Bush's campaign?
The Times can, should, and must do better than producing puff pieces on a guy who wants to sit in the Oval making decisions that will affect millions. Including both me and Michael Paulson!
I for one am not comforted by the fact that he has "faith" to guide him.
An earlier Times piece painted an indelible picture of Jeb as a political panderer of the most exquisite order, using his Dad's influence to build his own base in Florida. Willing to do anything, ask any favor of his father's administration if it helped his own political career. It made you sick, his relentless favor requests and "personal notes" to Bush's Chief of Staff, as well as Cabinet members. The strong inference was that his father's staff considered him to be an annoying pain in the butt.
That's who he really is. But now the Times has given him religious cover, so what we're really supposed to think is that he's an OK guy.
The truth is he's just a smarter version of W.
23
A smarter version of W is not really saying very much.
18
It means Jeb Bush is against science and reasoning - Dangerous to be the next President of the country. He should be guided with human faith not religious faith to attack non-Catholic country in the next war his family may be thinking. During two President Bushes, USA fought two wars and it is likely the third war during the third Bush if he is elected and his policy is guided by his new found faith. I wonder what he is thinking - days of religious conservatism especially Catholicism is fading.
7
"It means Jeb Bush is against science and reasoning " - your ignorance of Catholicism stunning.
3
The United State was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. The founding fathers did not want a king or head of state that was also the head of a state religion or to be dictated to by a far off monarchy like the Catholic Church which had a hand in the rule of European countries. I do not want a leader who is more obligated to his religious beliefs than to what is right for the United States. I rather not hear the constant questioning if Obama is a Christian. Not all citizens of the US are Christians. George W. Bush was a good born again Christian and a terrible president. Do we really want more of the same with Jeb? Finally, I remember Eisenhower, a man who witnessed hell on earth, but I do not remember him speaking about his religious beliefs. He was a leader of all of the people.
12
The United States was founded by Christians who believed in a Higher Power.
The separation of church and state by no means meant that religious faith was banished from the public sphere...
The separation of church and state by no means meant that religious faith was banished from the public sphere...
3
The same ignorant rhetoric spouted by the Know-Nothings in the 1840s that survived until Kennedy was elected - and now it's rearing its ugly head again. You may not like Bush's beliefs (and I don't either) but don't attribute it to a "far off monarchy." That's preposterous.
I am 60 years old with more than 20 years of Catholic education including graduate school. Whatever Catholicism Jeb Bush professes...it is not recognizable to me as a Catholic.
21
readers will now be BLESSED to share my first public prayer EVER after a lifetime in the wilderness. Please almighty, PLEASE keep these religious fanatics out of our government and out of our lives, especially the bush family, and cruz, and ....oh, you get the idea. sorry to stick YOU with them, but they think you love them more than you love us OTHERS. so, please, break it to them gently, almighty, or we might see a tragic uptick in the suicide rate.
19
Please keep the zealot worshippers of the modern 'God of Government 'out of the Oval Office...
4
Bob,
Without government, there could be no United States of America, because the government is the people. All of them.
Just saying...
Without government, there could be no United States of America, because the government is the people. All of them.
Just saying...
4
When will we have a candidate that says, "My faith, religious affiliation, or lack thereof, is as personal as my sex life. I have no intention of discussing any of them publicly as they have no bearing on my responsibilities as an elected official!"
26
In a word, never. Regrettably.
8
Toss him in a dungeon.
7
Ah, here we see what exemplifies western media: Alternating stories about Clinton and Bush, taking up all the oxygen in the room, making them both seem inevitable, acceptable, common place.
We are simply lab rats, running a maze, give us our ever shrinking piece of cheese, and we will be happy.
Mark Twain once said, "If voting made any difference, they would not let us do it."
The perception of choice when no choice actually exists.
We are simply lab rats, running a maze, give us our ever shrinking piece of cheese, and we will be happy.
Mark Twain once said, "If voting made any difference, they would not let us do it."
The perception of choice when no choice actually exists.
7
The more zealous of any faith tend to be converts.
16
Since politics is entirely owned--much more than just guided--by big money, big egos and big power grabs, perhaps confession and prayer is the balm to soothe what ails Mr. Bush. Whatever. It doesn't change a thing for those of us on the outside looking in on politics and/or faith.
6
I thought we got over this kind of stuff after John Kennedy was elect Presdent in 1960? Apparently not via the NYT...wonder if the Times will now o a article on HRC's beliefs?
1
Bush isn't Kennedy, we've got ample evidence that he will inflict his "faith" on other people.
If HRC tries to inject religion into public policy I expect the NYT to report on that.
If HRC tries to inject religion into public policy I expect the NYT to report on that.
6
True, they are not the same at all, but this article characterizes Bush in the same way that many voters thought Kennedy would behave. The Know Nothings are back, unfortunately.
1
Curmudgeonly - We have proof that Jeb has inserted his religion into public policy and into the private lives of others. There's no speculation going on here.
Wow -- this article has triggered so many strange perspectives for me. On the one hand, why a good Catholic, as brother of a Billy Graham-style Christian, would be any more trustworthy than his brother.
Or, why Israel's election, which appears to be a referendum on whether democracy permits two classes of citizens based on their religion is somehow different from 1860 USA's referendum on whether democracy permits two classes of citiziens based on their race.
Or whether violent social upheaval is as completely unavoidable in the one case, as it was in the other.
Or, why Israel's election, which appears to be a referendum on whether democracy permits two classes of citizens based on their religion is somehow different from 1860 USA's referendum on whether democracy permits two classes of citiziens based on their race.
Or whether violent social upheaval is as completely unavoidable in the one case, as it was in the other.
8
This is not the balance that President Kennedy weighed in his Houston speech in 1960 although it is true that his was never tested on the issues that attach to Catholic doctrine today in the public discourse, particularly as to choice but also as to the civil rights of 10 percent of the nation's citizens.
Here instead is a man who injected his own fervid religious belief into the exercise of his office in his actions as governor; a man whose every thought and deed make it clear that he would do so again as president of the United States each and every time he had to make such a decision or even act without needing to as he did in the Schiavo debacle.
I do not want a president who will impose his religion and its doctrine, any doctrine, on the United States government. It is chilling to contemplate.
Here instead is a man who injected his own fervid religious belief into the exercise of his office in his actions as governor; a man whose every thought and deed make it clear that he would do so again as president of the United States each and every time he had to make such a decision or even act without needing to as he did in the Schiavo debacle.
I do not want a president who will impose his religion and its doctrine, any doctrine, on the United States government. It is chilling to contemplate.
29
"Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals."
-Barack Obama
-Barack Obama
5
Bob - President Obama hasn't tried to foist any kind of religious belief on any of us.
2
Catholic, huh. So, I guess that at least means he's not actively trying to figure out how to destroy the world, right? Or maybe I'm mixing that up with one of the others. I'm way ready for somebody who isn't overly invested in mythology, frankly.
18
Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of nights stays the atheist from the swift comment on subjects on which he admits complete ignorance. It's like reading semiliterate comments on articles about education. And I'm way ready not to.
3
Lorem Ipsum - You're ignoring the fact that many such comments are being posted here by Catholics and people of other faiths. Nice try though.
1
Show me one comment from a self-claimed Catholic that refers to religion as "mythology."
I will wait here for you.
I will wait here for you.
The only time I noticed a politician's religion was when he or she mentioned it and seemed to make an issue of it. Nowadays a person's religion is a political factor in how policy and laws are made that govern the citizenry.
I don't know if reasoned logic makes any difference anymore, considering that it is reported that 58% of Republicans would like to see Christianity as the official religion of the United States. State legislatures have put forth bills that would make the Bible the official state book. That fell flat rather quickly in Louisiana when people asked which Bible, the Protestant or the Catholic Bible.
How can anyone other than a Christian feel comfortable with the leadership of a person who makes such an issue of their Christian faith when listing their qualifications for public office?
I don't know if reasoned logic makes any difference anymore, considering that it is reported that 58% of Republicans would like to see Christianity as the official religion of the United States. State legislatures have put forth bills that would make the Bible the official state book. That fell flat rather quickly in Louisiana when people asked which Bible, the Protestant or the Catholic Bible.
How can anyone other than a Christian feel comfortable with the leadership of a person who makes such an issue of their Christian faith when listing their qualifications for public office?
15
I don't mind that he is a man of faith, or that he chose Catholicism as his faith, but I find it interesting that people in positions of power who can decide who lives and who dies often apply their faith inconsistently.
For those on the right, various Christian faiths supposedly dictate to them that unborn fetuses should be protected, and considered to have all the rights of an adult human, but these same people often believe in capital punishment for those found guilty of capital crimes.
Based on this logic, it would be okay to terminate a pregnancy where the fetus was found to have committed a capital crime. If this doesn't make any sense to you, that's okay, because it is not supposed to. I believe in God, but I don't believe a fetus should have the full rights of a human being. What to do about the fetus should be the mother's responsibility.
As for the Terri Schiavo case, a CT scan of her head in 2002 showed a severe loss of brain tissue, and much of her cranium was filled with cerebrospinal fluid. She was brain dead, and unable to swallow. Her parents refused to believe this, and found physicians who said she may have minimal consciousness, which was absurd. Jeb Bush and the Florida Legislature's actions in the case were excessive and wrong. Terri's husband's actions were right and proper. He was the family she 'cleaved' to after leaving her parents' home.
21
i find it particularly sickening that bush used his religion to keep what was technically the heart of non-living human pumping via machine. truly disgusting hypocrisy and cruelty to ms schiavo's husband. the body of terri schiavo was alive only thru technology. her brain, her bodily funcions irretrievably destroyed. now this catholic convert with free-spending wife who held regularly catholic masses in government building , wants to bring his hypocritical anti-woman religion of the middle ages to the white house.
10
If he is so religious and his faith "frames his views on public policy", then he is unable to separate church and state. How can he represent non-religious and non-Catholic believers? This man should be considered ineligible to run for office of any kind, especially the Presidency.....
39
People have brought up Jeb's interfering with Terri Schiavo's case. Let's not forget about Elian Gonzales.
Oh, and The New York Times is again promoting Jeb Bush as a presidential candidate. If Jeb wants more publicity, let him take out ads. Better still, let's all ignore him and perhaps he and his toxic family will go away.
Oh, and The New York Times is again promoting Jeb Bush as a presidential candidate. If Jeb wants more publicity, let him take out ads. Better still, let's all ignore him and perhaps he and his toxic family will go away.
45
I am not a religious person at all, but I think its terribly ironic that this country's liberals or progressives or whatever they are constantly attack politicians for their Christianity by suggesting that the US will become a theocracy, where folks will be forced to pray or have morals or give up the idea that their egos are the center of the universe. The ironic part is my observation is that the liberal progressive movement possesses many more characteristics of a cult than Christianity.
6
I'll bite: What are those characteristics?
4
way to distract from the issue...At a time when media talking heads speak of Sharia law invading America, to supplant their Judeo Christian law, it is all rather hilarious, not to mention hypocritical.
There is no law on religion, other then the desire for religion not to be imposed on secular life, such as the interference with birth control, reproductive rights, gay rights...
There is no law on religion, other then the desire for religion not to be imposed on secular life, such as the interference with birth control, reproductive rights, gay rights...
4
Jeb has tried to inflict his religion on other people. Why doesn't that bother you?
He can be a druid for all I care but the rest of us shouldn't be ruled by his religious beliefs.
He can be a druid for all I care but the rest of us shouldn't be ruled by his religious beliefs.
10
So... Jeb is a Catholic convert who is against abortion and gung ho for capital punishment. His religious views seem to be based on his Republican political considerations. I guess that this is the very definition of a "Cafeteria Catholic." I hope that he believes that all of us should have the right to engage in religious cherry-picking the way that he does. Now why did you wait so long to release those e-mails Jeb? Seven years is a long time to be overdue.
17
Imagine the power and money it takes to get this key non-news story to support a the Presidential candidacy of Bush. Imagine how impossible it would be for Paul or Ryan, say, to get such a favorable article at the beginning of the race. Imagine such a story about Elizabeth Warren's or Rand Paul's spiritual faith--something that is surely as deep within them and as important as Jeb Bush's. But very big money-and-power wants favorable publicity that distinguishes Jeb Bush fromothers (including his failed brother)so that he has a chance to be President, And so he gets it where others can. Money not only talks, it preys--oops, sorry: "prays.
11
This country is stronger than most because of separation of church and state. All are welcome. You can not move to China and become Chinese. However, you can relocate here and become an American. Ponder that.
6
As a Christian woman, who is middle-of-the-road politically, I don't see any reason to attack Jeb Bush's religion.
How about the fact that he says it made him a better person, once he converted?
How about considering the thousands upon thousands of people who have turned their lives around through recovery programs, ranging from drug abuse to alcholism to behavioral disorders, thanks to churches and one's belief in God, and faith in Jesus Christ? When and why did believing in God become something that members of the public want to attack?
Why have liberals swung so far left that basic ideals of being a good person, ideals upheld by Jesus, are attacked so vigorously? While I am pro-choice, a gay rights advocate, and believe in equality all-around, I am also a grateful believer in Jesus Christ. These can go hand-in-hand.
And certainly, this conviction leads me to make better choices in my daily life. From how I relate to people at work, to how I interact with family members. I think the loss of spirituality in people's lives is a detriment. Churches are closing at rapid rates around the country, particularly because we can't seem to retain a younger generation.
Why can't we celebrate the fact that a leader in our country has faith in his or her religion - be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or another? If a person's faith makes them a stronger, healthier, and more humane individual, then I'm all for it.
How about the fact that he says it made him a better person, once he converted?
How about considering the thousands upon thousands of people who have turned their lives around through recovery programs, ranging from drug abuse to alcholism to behavioral disorders, thanks to churches and one's belief in God, and faith in Jesus Christ? When and why did believing in God become something that members of the public want to attack?
Why have liberals swung so far left that basic ideals of being a good person, ideals upheld by Jesus, are attacked so vigorously? While I am pro-choice, a gay rights advocate, and believe in equality all-around, I am also a grateful believer in Jesus Christ. These can go hand-in-hand.
And certainly, this conviction leads me to make better choices in my daily life. From how I relate to people at work, to how I interact with family members. I think the loss of spirituality in people's lives is a detriment. Churches are closing at rapid rates around the country, particularly because we can't seem to retain a younger generation.
Why can't we celebrate the fact that a leader in our country has faith in his or her religion - be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or another? If a person's faith makes them a stronger, healthier, and more humane individual, then I'm all for it.
7
So you're pro choice and an advocate of gay right but you think it's OK to have a President who will insert his religion into public policy and keep people from getting married or making their own medical decisions?
Have you looked at his track record?
Have you looked at his track record?
10
He can have all the faith he wants. Just keep it away from me.
5
Unfortunatly, liberals view most things through a narrow prism -- ex., either you are with us or against us. It prevents them from appreciating the entire person.
They must reject the man and his faith because their own beliefs are not unconditionally accepted and paramount.
They must reject the man and his faith because their own beliefs are not unconditionally accepted and paramount.
1
This man is a horrible hypocrite, and also a good example of what's been called a "cafeteria Catholic," i.e, one who takes the teachings he pleases and leaves the rest. He is willing to force a 13 year old, developmentally disabled girl to have a baby conceived as a result of a rape, but not willing to follow the church's teachings in relation to the death penalty. Jeb Bush truly sickens me.
40
I can understand being Catholic if you are raised that way, really not having a choice, indoctrinated from birth. Converting to Catholicism really doesn't make any sense at all. Do you realize what Catholics believe? and believe in? Papal Infallibility for starters, and then it just gets better and better from there. Magic!!
11
It is endless useful when Catholicism is discussed to reiterate the often overlooked fact that the primary tenet of being a Catholic is conscience. Not the expediency of being one running for governor in a heavily Latino state.
9
Oh heck. Just go with that Barbara Bush's comment that we don't need more Bushes or Clintons in the White House. Can't a Mr. Smith run for president??
9
I'm with Jeb's Mom, America has had enough of the Bushes in the white house, enough said!
25
Jeb's campaign handler's have managed to plant a national story to establish his bona fides with the Catholic vote, and the New York Times, shame on them, has shown itself to be a willing foil.
Here's an idea. How about an intelligent and honest conversation about the non-secular issues that face the citizens of this country and will dictate the future? Go to church on Saturday, or Sunday, or whatever day you choose, just leave your mythical and magical beliefs out of the governance of this country. Contrary to the position put forth by the Republican party and the religious right, this country was founded on religious freedom, and not Christianity. Kindly keep your beliefs to yourself.
Here's an idea. How about an intelligent and honest conversation about the non-secular issues that face the citizens of this country and will dictate the future? Go to church on Saturday, or Sunday, or whatever day you choose, just leave your mythical and magical beliefs out of the governance of this country. Contrary to the position put forth by the Republican party and the religious right, this country was founded on religious freedom, and not Christianity. Kindly keep your beliefs to yourself.
31
PDM, great ideas but that's not how America works. Americans don't get to debate, we are handed some sterile, talking points tat are to be nibbled at for two years, until the powers that be give us our choice between two candidates the oligarchs can support. Bush and Clinton certainly fit that bill...
2
Jeb Bush is dangerous. He said, “I loved the absolute nature of the Catholic Church. It resonated with me.” Right. The good guys always wear the white hats and the bad guys wear the black hats. See how easy it is to govern when you don't have to think?
52
Perhaps he'll listen to the teachings of Pope Francis. Perhaps not.
15
Faith? How about Pandering? Why does the NY Times present this hypocrisy as sincere? Is it trying to look 'unbiased', 'fair'. Sickening campaign propaganda.
30
Religious preference makes no difference to me, as far as a thes guys think it's a character reference. So-called christians can be the most evil, corrupt people on the planet. Same for other religions. Stop making news stories out of this kind of thing.
4
This religious litmus test for a conservative or the apparent secular test for a liberal throws an incredibly divisive dynamic into our politics. The whole base of US republicanism is compromise, and as soon as religion, either in the positive or negative, starts dictating views, absolutes follow and with that, quickly, the inability to compromise. So Governor Bush is a Catholic. Maybe he and I will attend Mass together one day or pray the Rosary. I am sure we agree on some things and disagree on others, and that is all very nice. Leave it at that. The role of the president is to represent the nation to the rest of the world and lead the executive branch. Clearly it involves others roles as well, but one of them is not using religion as some divisive element.
9
Attend mass with him or pray with him if you want but I don't want his religion being injected into public policy. It's called separation of church and state.
14
"He has also suggested that concerns about the Episcopal Church, which has moved steadily to the left on social issues and liturgical matters, played a role in his decision." It seems to me that he may be uncomfortable with the changes that Pope Francis has made in the church. There has been a very sharp turn left (unmistakably toward the actual teachings of Jesus Christ), that I would guess makes him at least as uncomfortable as he was with the Episcopal church. I suspect we won't be hearing much about that, however, since it wouldn't be as palatable to his target voters as his "devout faith." I suspect he is more of a Benedict Catholic than a Francis Catholic.
15
and doesn’t move with the tides of modern times, as my former religion did,”
Just exactly the open mind of a modern-day political leader one would want at the helm when our country and the world is facing threats from the likes of ISIS and their "living-in-the-past" literal ideology.
Who better to confront them than someone who thinks exactly as they do.
Just exactly the open mind of a modern-day political leader one would want at the helm when our country and the world is facing threats from the likes of ISIS and their "living-in-the-past" literal ideology.
Who better to confront them than someone who thinks exactly as they do.
13
When was Jeb Bush installed in the Vatican? The captions for the photo of Jeb with Francis says: "Pope Benedict XVI greeted Mr. Bush at the Vatican after his installment Mass in 2005. Credit L'Osservatore Romano, via Associated Press"
;-)
;-)
11
“As a public leader, one’s faith should guide you,” Mr. Bush said in Italy in 2009 ...
Assuming I understand this sentence despite Its poor grammar, these words explain why I and many others are dubious that Jeb Bush can lead the US in directions we consider reasonable. We prefer public leaders who are guided by facts. We don't believe our leaders have any special direct connections to divinities. We don't think they are infallible interpreters of scriptures. Don't misunderstand me. We don't mind that they pray, or end speeches by asking for blessings upon the USA. We only ask that facts are their first consideration when they make decisions, and that faith is among their last.
Assuming I understand this sentence despite Its poor grammar, these words explain why I and many others are dubious that Jeb Bush can lead the US in directions we consider reasonable. We prefer public leaders who are guided by facts. We don't believe our leaders have any special direct connections to divinities. We don't think they are infallible interpreters of scriptures. Don't misunderstand me. We don't mind that they pray, or end speeches by asking for blessings upon the USA. We only ask that facts are their first consideration when they make decisions, and that faith is among their last.
25
People need to realize that if one has a strong Christian faith, by that I mean one who sincerely believes, It is impossible to keep that faith private. It becomes the center of one's life, the very essence of one's humanity. So any decisions or life choices which have to be made must be made in the context of that faith.
3
I know some very good people who live their faith, they don't talk about it, they help out their neighbors, treat others with kindness, behave honestly etc. I've never seen any of those people try to impose their faith on others. Jeb Bush isn't one of those people.
11
Aaron...any strong Christian faith - if truly sincere - would by any reasonable judgment be incompatible with the economic violence perpetuated by the Republican Party these last 35 years.
Can you truly care for the weakest among us by stepping on their economic throats and withholding healthcare insurance from them vis a vis GOP Death Panels ?
No...you cannot.
Christianity is abundantly absent from the Republican Party, although the pretense of Christianity is worn by Republicans like Jeb Bush like an odious perfume.
Can you truly care for the weakest among us by stepping on their economic throats and withholding healthcare insurance from them vis a vis GOP Death Panels ?
No...you cannot.
Christianity is abundantly absent from the Republican Party, although the pretense of Christianity is worn by Republicans like Jeb Bush like an odious perfume.
12
Even if those decisions go against the law?
1
My thoughts about how significant any of this is in face of his wife's lying to custom's officials about clothes she bought in Europe come down to one thing: Anyone who cannot and will not respect the separation of church and state has no right to run for President. From this article he has already crossed the line by trying to keep Terri Schiavo alive and seeking to appoint a guardian for a fetus. Every person living in this country has the right to freedoms that are inviolable. He has already tried to interfere with these freedoms. He may be a man of faith but as shown by his actions as governor he will be a President who seeks to impose his faith on others. That is not acceptable.
37
Interesting. It should help him. What would help him also would be to adopt Ron Paul's foreign policy. If he did this he would be a shoo in.
3
Why? Are people really looking for a President who will use his religion as an excuse to interfere in their most private decisions?
11
We'll see how long his attempts at appealing to conservatives non-Catholics works. Many of them have had long antipathy for Catholics. Reaching out to Protestants? Apparenty only to conservatives.
2
What would Jesus think about "stand your ground?!"
47
So sorry, Jeb, your version of Catholicism does not match mine. I could never vote for anyone who forced Terri Schiavo's husband to keep her in vegetative state against what he knew would be his wife's wishes. We don't need that kind of "compassion" anywhere near the White House.
53
Wonder how Jeb's faith will follow the lead of Francis, who opposes the death penalty, champions the rights of workers over those of corporations, visits with prisoners (and washes their feet), and goes out of his way to care for the poor and marginalized? Will a Jeb Bush White House have a special barber shop for the homeless, like the Vatican? Give blankets to those sleeping on the sidewalk?
37
Sounds to me like 1960 all over again. The news media created a ruckus over John Kennedy's affiliation with Catholicism. Dire predictions never materialized then and they won't now.
8
Wrong. Bush has amply demonstrated that he's willing to inflict his faith on other people and inject it into public policy.
20
But one should not vote for someone who is Catholic because they are Catholic, dire predictions or not.
3
Kennedy's womanizing and general bad behavior prove he was not Catholic moralist. There is a stark difference between being Catholic by family ties, and Catholic by conversion. I doubt Jeb Bush is sincere about much other than ambition, but there is in general no greater zealot than a convert to any ideology.
5
Mr. Bush continues to show an immaturity that is very dangerous if you are the US president. First it was his father he was leaning on, then his brother, and now the Catholic Church. He has never grown up.
33
I'm glad Jeb's faith makes him happier in his personal life. It's not going to make him a better president. If past is prologue, it's likely to make him want to interfere into what ought to be very personal decisions best left to immediate family.
50
For instance, Schiavo.
12
Especially citizens who aren't Catholic or Christian, whose faith may lead them in quite different directions.
12
Why America is headed the wrong direction: Citizens and Public Officials are putting aside the Constitution and Laws of the United States in order to follow narrow dictates of their religious beliefs or their impulses. They reject fact and evidence and embrace religious edicts and myths.
When America will be headed in the right direction: When religious leaders - Priests, Pastors, Rabbis, Imams, Pundits - all reject blind faith and embrace fact and evidence.
Some of you might have found that last concept ridiculous - good, your conscience is telling you something you will never accept openly. Why are we defending the right to practice blind faith in old myths and edicts and rejecting facts and evidence right in front of us? And what good do we think we can achieve by that approach?
We have had religion for thousands of years and were barely better than animals. We started putting reason above superstition some 500 years ago and the changes have been dramatic. Compare your beliefs to those of your great-grandparents, and then compare the quality of your life and your humanity to theirs. (Humanity as in Compassion to animals, to people of other races, to the poor, the weak, to the disabled, etc...)Try it.
Facts and evidence. Try it Mr. Bush.
When America will be headed in the right direction: When religious leaders - Priests, Pastors, Rabbis, Imams, Pundits - all reject blind faith and embrace fact and evidence.
Some of you might have found that last concept ridiculous - good, your conscience is telling you something you will never accept openly. Why are we defending the right to practice blind faith in old myths and edicts and rejecting facts and evidence right in front of us? And what good do we think we can achieve by that approach?
We have had religion for thousands of years and were barely better than animals. We started putting reason above superstition some 500 years ago and the changes have been dramatic. Compare your beliefs to those of your great-grandparents, and then compare the quality of your life and your humanity to theirs. (Humanity as in Compassion to animals, to people of other races, to the poor, the weak, to the disabled, etc...)Try it.
Facts and evidence. Try it Mr. Bush.
43
The anti Catholic comments are very predictable from the NYT readership, generally considered to be a sign of liberal enlightenment. I have noticed that many comments over the years have linked the conservatism of the Catholic Supreme Court justices to their faith but I have never seen a justification for that charge. It seems more to me that the justices are first very conservative who just happen to be Catholic, rather than their conservatism being a result of their faith. For instance, I never read that justice William Brennan's liberalism was the result of his Catholicism. And what pray tell distinguishes Jeb's Bush's principles from the majority of evangelical Protestants? Not much.
13
It has nothing to do with being anti-Catholic and everything to do with being anti-Jeb Bush.
18
Firstly, Mr. Bush talks about his Catholic faith and its absolutism being attractive.
Secondly, Mr. Brennan's liberalism is not a straigh-tline link to his Catholic faith, and he sure does not bring his "faith" into the conversation, does he?
Thirdly, most of the folks you accuse of being anti-Catholic are folks who support Joe Biden, John Kerry and who knows how many other Catholics in public office and private life. Their problem might not be an anti-Catholic bias, just a discomfort with public officials not explaining their decisions based on fact and reason and resorting to blind faith as their rationale. This is a problem whether Mr. Bush is a Catholic, Evangelical, Buddhist or Atheist.
Has it occurred to you your perception of all criticism as being anti-Catholic might be due to your identification with the religion and thinking of it as infallible, misunderstood and victimized by us jerks?
Secondly, Mr. Brennan's liberalism is not a straigh-tline link to his Catholic faith, and he sure does not bring his "faith" into the conversation, does he?
Thirdly, most of the folks you accuse of being anti-Catholic are folks who support Joe Biden, John Kerry and who knows how many other Catholics in public office and private life. Their problem might not be an anti-Catholic bias, just a discomfort with public officials not explaining their decisions based on fact and reason and resorting to blind faith as their rationale. This is a problem whether Mr. Bush is a Catholic, Evangelical, Buddhist or Atheist.
Has it occurred to you your perception of all criticism as being anti-Catholic might be due to your identification with the religion and thinking of it as infallible, misunderstood and victimized by us jerks?
13
If you haven't, you need to wake up. Brennan was a fine supreme court justice because he didn't follow his religion with his decisions, his decisions were not liberal as much as correct.
5
“In the United States, many people think you need to keep your faith, put it in a security box, if you’re an elected official — put it in a safety deposit box until you finish your service as a public servant and then you can go get it back,” he added. “I never felt that was appropriate.”
Funny thing. Those "many people" happen to include the Founding Fathers who wrote it into the Constitution which the Republicans revere whenever it supports their particular position, but ignore it otherwise...
Funny thing. Those "many people" happen to include the Founding Fathers who wrote it into the Constitution which the Republicans revere whenever it supports their particular position, but ignore it otherwise...
66
I look forward to the day when a person's - especially a politician's - faith or belief system is entirely private, not paraded in public, used to pander to voters or dissected in the media. In the public eye it all looks like show and manipulation to me - the place where politics and organized religion conflate neatly anyway.
32
Part of some faiths say they must proselytize, being it Islam or Christians. It's those who hold that they know the key to eternal happiness and they must share it when they get any chance (and if you don't believe you are an outcast).
2
Here I was looking for a reason to vote for the guy (not really) only to realize he faked Catholocism in order to win election in Florida. Also the Bush family is incredibly bizzare. How will we look to the rest of the world, more secular everday, if we elect another Bush who claims a miraculous adult conversion that happens benefit him politically?
29
It shouldn't matter what a politicians religion in. Separation of church and state, people. This is not a theocracy!
28
Point granted. However, what if the candidate seems to lean toward a theocracy?
2
Didn't I read this same story about 15 years or so ago about Jeb's brother George, and how he became a born again Christian earlier in his life, and now leads a christian life, etc., etc., just before becoming president and immediately launching two wars of aggression based on lies, slashing spending on social programs, and turning over the U.S. Government to all his corrupt friends and financial backers? I guess if it worked once, why not try it again.
111
The Catholic Church is a very large faith with a very diverse following. There are so many reasons not to support this third wave of the Bush pseudo-aristocracy. As a cradle Catholic, still practicing, reading about Bush's interpretation of the faith just put one more nail in the coffin. If his faith was truly influencing his decisions, Florida would have one of the best safety nets in the country and virtually none of its children or families would live in poverty. That is not the case. Just like if the Catholic Church's bishops were truly Pro-Life they would be just as upset about the death penalty as they are about abortion. Shameful.
51
Actually, the Roman Catholic Church has been quite vocal and consistent in its opposition to the death penalty and always has been.
2
When Kennedy ran for President he had to convince people that his loyalty was to America and not the Vatican. For Bush's supporters, this dual allegiance is now an electoral asset?
As governor of Florida in the Terri Schiavo case, Bush made it clear that his personal beliefs trumped his statutory obligations.
If he wants to be a priest he should be guided by his faith. If he wants to be elected to public office in the USA he should be guided by the Constitution and other duly enacted laws of the land.
As governor of Florida in the Terri Schiavo case, Bush made it clear that his personal beliefs trumped his statutory obligations.
If he wants to be a priest he should be guided by his faith. If he wants to be elected to public office in the USA he should be guided by the Constitution and other duly enacted laws of the land.
76
What would Jesus do? According to Matthew (ch6), this is what Jesus said about public worship:
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray ... on the street corners to be seen by others ... But when you pray, go into your room, close the door ... And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray ... on the street corners to be seen by others ... But when you pray, go into your room, close the door ... And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."
72
Jesus also said dont judge others. Hope that helps.
John - We've got a right to judge someone who wants to be President of the United States.
11
“In the United States, many people think you need to keep your faith, put it in a security box, if you’re an elected official — put it in a safety deposit box until you finish your service as a public servant and then you can go get it back,” he added. “I never felt that was appropriate.”
Out of the mouths of babes.
An individual who is elected as President of the United States, recites this oath: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” The faithfully" part of the oath has to do with fidelity. Nowhere in the oath does it mention following one's own religious principles in order to properly and legally govern. J. Bush's allegiance to his religion rather than to the Constitution should disqualify him as a presidential candidate.
Out of the mouths of babes.
An individual who is elected as President of the United States, recites this oath: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” The faithfully" part of the oath has to do with fidelity. Nowhere in the oath does it mention following one's own religious principles in order to properly and legally govern. J. Bush's allegiance to his religion rather than to the Constitution should disqualify him as a presidential candidate.
26
Surely Mr. Bush's ardent Catholic faith is a boon to all Americans, as it is well-known that Catholics are much better strategic thinkers than lesser mortals impaired by following second-rate religions. Don't believe me? "Many of his priorities during his two terms as governor of Florida aligned with those of the Catholic Church — including his extraordinary, and unsuccessful, effort to force a hospital to keep Terri Schiavo on life support...." Yes, who cares what the Florida Supreme Court and federal courts said on this issue, so many times over. When you know you're "right," (or your brother is the President!) who cares about the courts and the rule of law. CT scans showed that Terry Schiavo's brain had largely turned to liquid, but her mother believed Terry responded to her. So Terry was "alive," and thank goodness Jeb wouldn't take "no" from stupid doctors for an answer. Or turn a cadaver on life support into a political football to score a few points with the evangelicals he now courts, coincidentally. Is this the sort of wise public policy we can expect going forward from this most pious man?
34
His religion is his own business, just as with any other politician. Romney is Mormon, so what? Joe Lieberman is Jewish. So what? Barack Obama went to so-and-so church. So what? This is all personal and irrelevant unless they are trying to impose it others.The Constitution forbids any religious test.
8
That's the point, he does try to impose it on others. When you interfere in someone's medical decisions or you keep people from getting married, you're imposing on people.
30
Ah, but Jeb Bush wants to impose his religion on others.
13
As an atheist, I would like to see an honest survey cutting across all racial, ethnic, socioeconomic and gender groups to see if people really take religion into account when choosing a president. I'd like to see a major University do it so they have no dog in the hunt.
I suspect we might all be surprised how little people even consider it. I think jobs and the future of their children might be higher on their list. I think the electorate has been sold this smelly bill of goods long past it's shelf life.
I suspect we might all be surprised how little people even consider it. I think jobs and the future of their children might be higher on their list. I think the electorate has been sold this smelly bill of goods long past it's shelf life.
9
You don't live in the South, do you....
7
It is not very comforting to me that Jeb Bush is a man of faith. Especially when that faith is embodied as one of the mean spirited, judgemental "Christians" of the right. There may be plenty of Old Testament in his actions and demeanor but very little of the Christ who embraced the beggars, criminals and whores.
61
When anyone talks publicly about how strong their faith is, it has the opposite effect on listeners. It shows that you are not strong enough to keep it to yourself. One's faith is best described by one's actions. Live it.
48
Mr. Bush's conversion to the Catholic Church occurred during one of the most conservative periods in the Church in the last fifty years. Unlike Pope John XXIII who tried to open a window in the Roman Catholic Church, the popes that followed, including Popes John Paul & Benedict, reverted back to the "absolutism" of earlier eras. In the 1960's, American Catholics were urged to embrace the poor and less fortunate, to turn their backs on segregation, to fight for civil rights. Until Pope Francis was elected pope, the Church saw scandal after scandal these past twenty years and Catholics leaving the church in droves. Jeb Bush's life appears to reflect more of the "Old Guard" of Catholicism, follow the rules of the church rather than the spirit.
16
OK, we get it NY Times, our corporate masters and their media present to the people only two absurd and incredibly unpalatable options as we go through the motions until collapse: 1) another Bush, and 2) another Clinton. Remember when Abraham Lincoln became President? I don't, but I've read that that was a great nation that inspired the world. Remember FDR and Teddy? Eisenhower and his dire warnings about the Military Industrial State? How about JFK and his brother?
16
A lot of aren't particularly impressed with FDR, Teddy, Eisenhower or JFK. Lincoln, sure. How about Reagan?
Really am surprised that we haven't had any vitriol from Bush haters which is good and a lively debate is so much better. In MY opinion it really depends on whether he can get things done with the deadlocked Congress and only being in power will tell. That is by no means a foregone conclusion or even that he will win the election. As long as they keep it civil I will listen but start mud slinging and I am out of here !!
3
Of course Bush can get things done with the deadlocked Congress. With both houses in GOP hands, he'll be able to push through more tax cuts for the wealthy, food stamp cuts for the poor, bills to curb or kill the EPA and, if Iran doesn't accede to our demands and we accede to Israel's, a war.
13
Interesting that it's always the same issues--capital punishment, war, guns, etc--where religious Republicans ignore their religion. And always the same issues--birth control, gay rights, etc--where religion determines their politics. Which makes it look, to the rest of us, as though it's politics guiding them in all cases.
63
They love guns and hate gays...what would Freud say?
3
Great. More "faith guides him." Guides him to what? His born-again brother had no problem being guided into a horrible, costly, dishonorable war that enriched his VP and made the nation poorer at home and abroad. How about we take another look at separation of church and state and make politicians' professions of faith something irrelevant - like their golf handicaps - rather than some guidepost to how good their judgment and ethics might be.
76
Being guided by Catholic faith is relevant -- if you're running for bishop. Otherwise...
46
“Anybody could see he was a devout Catholic...
...so long as they weren't languishing on death row.
...so long as they weren't languishing on death row.
66
Catholicism has given us the faith and policies of Leo XII or John XXIII, as well as those of Pius XI and of JPII. For a church that believes in "absolutes," there seems to be some variety of emphasis, if not doctrine.
As a Bush, a financier, a veritable vacuum cleaner of donations from the wealthiest, and a governor of a state which performed a huge number of executions, who claims to be a political conservative, this Bush's politics are preordained. I am just waiting for him to recant on education and immigration, in order to keep his conservative credibility. I am not expecting him to make a statement like JFK's to the Protestant ministers.
As a Bush, a financier, a veritable vacuum cleaner of donations from the wealthiest, and a governor of a state which performed a huge number of executions, who claims to be a political conservative, this Bush's politics are preordained. I am just waiting for him to recant on education and immigration, in order to keep his conservative credibility. I am not expecting him to make a statement like JFK's to the Protestant ministers.
22
I see Jeb's decision to convert to Catholicism as a double edge sword. He used it to pacify his wife and keep his failing marriage together and he has basically decided the church in which to make his official religious/political appearances. Everything Jeb stands for is against the Catholic Church's doctrines. If anyone actually votes for Jeb Bush because of his so-called religious beliefs, they need to consider going back to complete their education.
42
Catholic social justice is the backbone of the Church. Jeb does not seem to grasp this concept. There are nearly two billion Catholics worldwide and Pope Francis is a good spokesman for what the Church really means. The USCCB
( United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) is more aligned with the less than charitable GOP.
( United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) is more aligned with the less than charitable GOP.
31
Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with US politics.
I don't care if Jeb Bush believes there is a Great Pumpkin. I do care that he's trying to make me live as if there is one.
Why is it that conservatives preach self-reliance and responsibility but refuse to let me make a decision with which they disagree? He had no right to meddle in the private suffering of Terri Schiavo's family. He has no right to meddle in my decision to abort. I too choose life, but I don't him or his kind to tell me that - or force me to subject to their religious fundamentalism.
I don't care if Jeb Bush believes there is a Great Pumpkin. I do care that he's trying to make me live as if there is one.
Why is it that conservatives preach self-reliance and responsibility but refuse to let me make a decision with which they disagree? He had no right to meddle in the private suffering of Terri Schiavo's family. He has no right to meddle in my decision to abort. I too choose life, but I don't him or his kind to tell me that - or force me to subject to their religious fundamentalism.
194
It's weird to hear someone say that something has made them a better person. That's a bit disingenuous. Let others decide these evaluations.
20
When politicians sell their religion as force behind their policy making--as in it calms me, or it clears my head--I always worry a bit. I worry that the tenets of the religion could work like a campaign donor, and influence policy and decision making.
In the article there is a picture of the pope and Bush meeting. It could be argued that it's hard for a man of faith to separate his decisions from the decisions and rules of the church, the pope acting like an oligarch pulling policy strings. It's good that there is a more liberal pope right now. Still, our president should not have any pressure to answer to a divine leader who supposedly has the ear of god.
In the article there is a picture of the pope and Bush meeting. It could be argued that it's hard for a man of faith to separate his decisions from the decisions and rules of the church, the pope acting like an oligarch pulling policy strings. It's good that there is a more liberal pope right now. Still, our president should not have any pressure to answer to a divine leader who supposedly has the ear of god.
15
So is Jeb Bush a Catholic in the mode of Pope Francis or in the mode of Newt Gingrich? I fear it is the latter, and I, for one, do not want him to be president.
76
Too bad he's not a philosophical follower of the current Pope instead of an overbearing moralist and a shill for Big Business.
134
If Mr. Bush is guided by his Catholic faith, it certainly doesn't show up in his less than Christ-like policies, nor did it show up during the Terry Shaivo fiasco. I suspect he is Catholic in name only.
103
Will Mr. Bush listen to Pope Francis on the issue of humans causing global warming?
Or will he pick and choose which of the tenets of the Catholic Church he is in agreement with?
Or will he pick and choose which of the tenets of the Catholic Church he is in agreement with?
59
'...Or will he pick and choose which of the tenets of the Catholic Church he is in agreement with?...'
You mean, like most American Catholics?
You mean, like most American Catholics?
1
He'll choose what he thinks conservative voters will go for.
9
A long and detailed article about Jeb Bush's faith, right?
The only thing most people will take away from this is
"I didn't know he is Catholic!"
And so the reshuffle of potential supporters begins.
BTW, never having thought about his religion, I didn't know he is Catholic!
The only thing most people will take away from this is
"I didn't know he is Catholic!"
And so the reshuffle of potential supporters begins.
BTW, never having thought about his religion, I didn't know he is Catholic!
18
Is it OK for all of the Episcopalian Masons to be in the White House...I'm sure that you've heard all of rumors about them!!! Let the guy pray...ht
4
No. Sorry. Not another faith-based president, and especially not another faith based Bush.
313
Every once in awhile the American people face a decision that will either throw them back into the snake pit or move them on into an enlightened future. Make no mistake; this is one of those decisions. Having yet another Bush for president is so obviously bad for so many reasons that I don't think I need a bulleted PowerPoint presentation to make my case.
150
As opposed to another Clinton?
5
Well we had 2 Bushes, 1 Clinton, I take one more Clinton to even out the score. The country does better under a Clinton than under a Bush!
12
Richard - We're talking about Bush right now.
2
There is a lot to like about Jeb Bush. Unlike his brother he is an excellent speaker and has a firm grasp of issues. And, unlike so many of the other prospects - including Hillary - he can articulately explain his positions in a convincing and intelligent manner.
That he has chosen Catholicism and publicly and strongly embraces his faith also displays courage. Why? Just witness an endless stream of irrelevant anti-Catholic mumbo jumbo all the bigots will rain on his parade within these comments. He is certain to be verbally nailed to a cross for believing in a religion that espouses absolute principles. In a country in which every principle is negotiable this is the most difficult position for the Catholic haters to understand, or even attempt to understand.
That he has chosen Catholicism and publicly and strongly embraces his faith also displays courage. Why? Just witness an endless stream of irrelevant anti-Catholic mumbo jumbo all the bigots will rain on his parade within these comments. He is certain to be verbally nailed to a cross for believing in a religion that espouses absolute principles. In a country in which every principle is negotiable this is the most difficult position for the Catholic haters to understand, or even attempt to understand.
16
Who cares how excellent his speaking skills are if education declines or we suffer another recession? His track record in Florida isn't good.
His willingness to impose the tenets of his religion on people who are not Catholic is very relevant. He can believe anything he wants but he's not supposed to insert his religious beliefs into public policy.
His willingness to impose the tenets of his religion on people who are not Catholic is very relevant. He can believe anything he wants but he's not supposed to insert his religious beliefs into public policy.
39
He claims to be a Catholic. The policies he promotes say otherwise, and are out of step with those promoted by Pope Francis.
61
Tom...Jeb Bush does not appear to have a firm grasp on the separation of church and state at all, which is an important issue to many Americans, not to mention a founding principle of our nation.
It's great if you're Catholic, but it has nothing to do with public office or public policy.
But if Catholicism did have something to do with public policy, it most certainly would have nothing to do with the trickle-down-poverty-anti-healthcare-anti-living-wage-anti-minority misanthropy championed by the Republican Party Jeb Bush associates himself with.
Any honest Catholic would defect from the modern Republican Party after witnessing the GOP Death Panel strategy with healthcare.
It's great if you're Catholic, but it has nothing to do with public office or public policy.
But if Catholicism did have something to do with public policy, it most certainly would have nothing to do with the trickle-down-poverty-anti-healthcare-anti-living-wage-anti-minority misanthropy championed by the Republican Party Jeb Bush associates himself with.
Any honest Catholic would defect from the modern Republican Party after witnessing the GOP Death Panel strategy with healthcare.
161
Politicians need to keep their religion private. I am offended that taxpayer dollars are spent on nonsense like National Prayer Breakfasts, military chaplains and other perpetuators of superstition, folklore and claptrap.
Let people do as they wish in private and keep their fables out of the running of government. Professing that one needs help from the invisible friend in the sky to deal with serious, secular public policy matters is hardly impressive. It's scary and depressing.
Let people do as they wish in private and keep their fables out of the running of government. Professing that one needs help from the invisible friend in the sky to deal with serious, secular public policy matters is hardly impressive. It's scary and depressing.
127
Well said, it always makes me shake my head when I hear evangelicals clamoring about the dire threat which is Sharia Law, yet they are more than happy to impose their religious doctrines upon the rest of us.
7
Sorry. It is unacceptable that HIS faith, which Gov. Bush characterizes as "absolute," would even impinge on—much less govern—my life.
I heard Bush speak a few years ago and was impressed. A life-long Democrat, I thought here is a Republican I could vote for. His assessment of the country even reminded me of John Edwards' "two Americas" (before that guy famously went down in flames). But this? This is enough to keep me from voting for Mr. Bush.
I heard Bush speak a few years ago and was impressed. A life-long Democrat, I thought here is a Republican I could vote for. His assessment of the country even reminded me of John Edwards' "two Americas" (before that guy famously went down in flames). But this? This is enough to keep me from voting for Mr. Bush.
24
I'm glad you had a chance to hear him speak. Did you get a chance to see the kinds of things he did when he was governor? Things like Stand Your Ground laws?
36
Thanks for pointing this out. No, that wasn't included in his presentation at the Oakland Speakers Series (notoriously liberal audience).
Does this make JEB a Compassionate Conservative? Because that one has already been tried and failed by the last Bush.
31
Justices Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Kennedy and Alito are Catholic (as is Justice Sotomayor). Look and what the five G.O.P. appointed Catholic justices are like and what they have done to the country. These five may give you a glimpse of what another Bush presidency would be like. Jeb Bush's faith is no indication that he would be a good president. The country does not need another Bush in the White House, period.
200
So let's elect a Jewish president, like Ginsberg, Breyer or Kagan?
3
Tony - Have any of the justices you mentioned tried to insert their faith into public policy?
13
Kind of an odd comment. How does Sotomayor fit with the others?
Hopefully, Bush is aware of the themes of Catholic social teaching, which go beyond the usual "pelvic issues," such as abortion or same-sex marriage. They include: Putting the needs of the poor and vulnerable first; respecting the basic rights of workers. including the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, to private property, and to economic initiative; care for God's creation, which according to the US Council of Catholic bishop is a "requirement of faith." In addition, the "right to life" is said to include the "right to those things required for human decency," which at least in my reading, include the right to health care, enough food, decent housing, etc. Many conservative Catholics and Evangelicals seem to forget, or perhaps willfully ignore, these aspects of Catholic teaching.
37
Take a look at his track record.
14
Another candidate pushing his/her religion on the rest of us. And then if they win we can be assured that his/her religion will play a central part in our private lives. I am disgusted by this.
117
I have not heard him saying anything to indicate that he would push his faith on you or anyone else. Sounds a bit paranoid to me.
6
Susanna - Did you read the article? Did you see what he's done when it comes to life and death issues and interfering in other people's medical decisions? It really helps to pay attention.
36
@Susanna,
His actions as Governor of Florida show exactly how - and how often and how strongly - he forced his "religious" views on others. Read about the Terry Schiavvo case, "Stand Your Ground," anti-choice, etc.
That is not paranoia. It is documented fact.
His actions as Governor of Florida show exactly how - and how often and how strongly - he forced his "religious" views on others. Read about the Terry Schiavvo case, "Stand Your Ground," anti-choice, etc.
That is not paranoia. It is documented fact.
26
Mr. Bush is out of step with most Catholics of his age -- the rosary, the interest in "absolute" positions -- what people might call a John-Paul II catholic. These are people who would like to ignore Vatican II.
23
The Republican party of today has values that are fundamentally at odds with those of the Church.
Bush's oversight of public executions in florida should be a hint for anyone interested in knowing how Republican versus how truly Catholic his values are
Bush's oversight of public executions in florida should be a hint for anyone interested in knowing how Republican versus how truly Catholic his values are
161
A sincere bigot is the worst kind of bigot. What he did to Terry Schiavo's husband is unforgivable. I would never vote for this guy - unlike John Kennedy, the only Catholic President, Bush the Third is happy to force his beliefs on others. He's toxic.
241
Pope Francis will soon issue his encyclical on climate change, in anticipation of the Paris climate change talks at the end of this year. The Pope will urge Catholics to take action against climate change because it is a moral issue. What Will Jeb Do? Will he acknowledge that climate change is caused by burning fossil fuels? Will he promote policies to reduce emissions and grow a new green energy economy? Or will he stick his fingers in his ears and refuse to listen to the Pope? I guarantee Jeb will listen to the Koch Bros rather than the leader of his church.
104
Jeb Bush last month at the Conservative Political Action Conference during his conversation with Fox News host Sean Hannity:
"No. I believe in traditional marriage," said Jeb Bush when Hannity asked him whether he's changing his position on the issue.
And in January, Jeb Bush said he was disappointed by a court's decision to allow marriage equality in one state.
"It ought be a local decision. I mean, a state decision," he said. "The state decided. The people of the state decided. But it’s been overturned by the courts, I guess."
-----------
Yeah...let's let the states decide civil rights for people...they've never failed before.
If a state has a sufficient number of homophobes, well then by-golly-gee-willikers that state ought have the right to withhold civil rights from homosexuals.
What year are we in ?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/jeb-bush-gay-marriage-_n_677144...
"No. I believe in traditional marriage," said Jeb Bush when Hannity asked him whether he's changing his position on the issue.
And in January, Jeb Bush said he was disappointed by a court's decision to allow marriage equality in one state.
"It ought be a local decision. I mean, a state decision," he said. "The state decided. The people of the state decided. But it’s been overturned by the courts, I guess."
-----------
Yeah...let's let the states decide civil rights for people...they've never failed before.
If a state has a sufficient number of homophobes, well then by-golly-gee-willikers that state ought have the right to withhold civil rights from homosexuals.
What year are we in ?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/jeb-bush-gay-marriage-_n_677144...
268
Interesting that the author of this aritcle mentions abortion and "right to life," but he fails to address Bush's views on marriage equality, and gay rights in general. Um, as a gay voter, I am very affected by this issue when the candidate lets his religion--here Roman Catholocism--direct his political views. Will his views on gay issues be closer to Pope Benedict, with whom he's pictured, or the current, ostensibly more inclusive (in rhetoric at least) pontiff?
4
What year are we in? If you are Bush it is the 15th century.
2
Jeb Bush is guided by the religion of power and money, with political office being the means to those ends.
104
Oh yes. We pay lip service to the notion of no religious test for office. But every candidate must pay homage to the man upstairs. And I do mean the "man". Do ya think Jeb or anyone else prays "our mother, thou art in heaven ..."? And forget about atheists. Cannibals and axe-murderers have a better chance of getting elected.
32
I am really disgusted by this article and the New York Times shamelessly promoting Bush as the preferred candidate. Why should we care about his "catholic faith"??? America is still a secular country. Even if it was a "Christian" country and hopefully that will never happen, that Christianity wouldn't be based on Catholicism anyway. But really, why should we care? Religion is a personal private matter or it should be. Any politician talking about "faith" is not being honest because politicians are not honest, they are panderers and this Bush is amongst the worst of them. If he really "believed", he would keep it to himself. If he is so publicly Catholic, did he speak out about the abuses of church clergy and work to expose the coverups that protected clergy while causing more damage to the true victims?
PS: Looks like he's campaigning to me.
PS: Looks like he's campaigning to me.
130
Like it or not Jeb probably will be the preferred candidate.
Yes religion should be private but Republicans align themselves with the religious right and we're all forced to live with that. We should care because Jeb and others like him will pick and choose the parts of their religion that they want to practice and try to make the rest of us live by those rules.
Yes religion should be private but Republicans align themselves with the religious right and we're all forced to live with that. We should care because Jeb and others like him will pick and choose the parts of their religion that they want to practice and try to make the rest of us live by those rules.
87
Brian:
We should care so we know who we are voting for. What may be crystal clear to you may not be so clear to another voter. To me, a person who would put a book written 2000 years ago and revised dozens of times ahead of common sense and decency is not a person I want making decisions--on anything. They lack critical thinking skills and have questionable judgment, if you ask me. After all, even if the Bible/Koran/Torah were the word of God, it's seriously out of date.
I suspect there are more people out here who would vote for a non-denominational president than the press would like us to believe. I don't very often recall running into anyone in real life who will admit they voted for a president because of his religion.
We should care so we know who we are voting for. What may be crystal clear to you may not be so clear to another voter. To me, a person who would put a book written 2000 years ago and revised dozens of times ahead of common sense and decency is not a person I want making decisions--on anything. They lack critical thinking skills and have questionable judgment, if you ask me. After all, even if the Bible/Koran/Torah were the word of God, it's seriously out of date.
I suspect there are more people out here who would vote for a non-denominational president than the press would like us to believe. I don't very often recall running into anyone in real life who will admit they voted for a president because of his religion.
9
I disagree with your interpretation of the article. I sensed the NY Times offered this piece as a warning to voters: watch out for this guy, it seems to be saying--remember how he inserted himself and his religion into issues that were private matters for families to decide, not government officials. In addition, by pointing out that this right-to-lifer has executed more individuals under his watch than any other previous governor of Florida, the Times seems to be pointing out his hypocrisy.
15
Six of the nine Supreme Court Justices are country-club Roman Catholics, as is John Boehner. Jeb Bush is more comfortable, religiously, believing in absolutes. From the beginning of his governorship, he has worked to weaken public schools. Not a good direction for the USA.
108
Six? So you are counting Justice Sotomayor as one of the "country-club Roman Catholics"? Interesting.
9
Sonia Sotomayor is human and has a heart and knows the law, there's a huge difference between her and the others.
6
Sotomayor's a country club catholic? What club does she belong to?
1
It's one thing to be born and raised with a particular religion. You don't have any choice about that. It's another thing to convert to a religion as an adult. This means you sincerely believe and accept the fundamental tenants of the faith. Does Jeb Bush actually believe that the Pope is "infallible"? Does Jeb Bush actually believe that it is possible for a virgin to give birth? If he wants to wear his faith on his sleeve for political purposes, there is no reason he shouldn't be asked these questions. I would think he would be eager to answer them if he is as sincere about his faith as he claims.
45
Yes, one can see how he could "love the absolute nature of the church." Being President, however, requires attention to the many shades of gray between the absolute choices. The far reaching consequences must be considered in making decisions.
It's remarkable how far things have changed since JFK, as a candidate for president, declared that he would not let Catholicism make his decisions for him, but instead rely upon his own conscience.
It seems that religion is used by many politicians as a justification to support their positions, at least when it's convenient. If a position , i.e. capital punishment, is not supported by their faith, there is apparently no conflict for them.
So much for their love of the absolute nature of their faith.
It's remarkable how far things have changed since JFK, as a candidate for president, declared that he would not let Catholicism make his decisions for him, but instead rely upon his own conscience.
It seems that religion is used by many politicians as a justification to support their positions, at least when it's convenient. If a position , i.e. capital punishment, is not supported by their faith, there is apparently no conflict for them.
So much for their love of the absolute nature of their faith.
283
Yes. And one wonders as to the "absolute nature of the Church."
Would that include the Inquisition? Would that include Papal "infallibility?" Would that include Limbo (oh, now rejected by the Church) Would that absolute nature include the Crusades? The Church's issue with Galileo's discoveries?
Would that include the Inquisition? Would that include Papal "infallibility?" Would that include Limbo (oh, now rejected by the Church) Would that absolute nature include the Crusades? The Church's issue with Galileo's discoveries?
3
DR from New England is on to something. The reason the Catholic Church is against capital punishment is for the same reason they are against abortion. It's a human life. It is sacred, you do not kill it, regardless. Like other Republicans, he is using religion. As a Catholic, I watch how the Evangelicals have been manipulated by these people. I do not want this to happen to me.
1
The Pope must surely be surprised or even disgusted by this flagrant use of "Catholicism" by politicians. I'd love to hear him speak out publicly on the issue.
2
After living through the damage here and abroad caused by George W. Bush's conversations with "a higher father," I don't think American voters will stomach Jeb's conviction that his faith should shape his policies.
194
You never know what people will "stomach" once they've heard enough right wing propaganda, paid for by the Koch brothers and others.
3
Jeb Bush says he loves "the absolute nature" of Catholicism, yet his interpretation of respecting life seems limited to abortion and euthanasia; he supports the death penalty adamantly, speaks of militarism and shows no compassion for the poor or those without health insurance. He sounds like a "cafeteria Catholic" to me.
269
The Church's response to Jeb Bush's refusal to end the death penalty in Florida, "we just agreed we would disagree." On abortion its a different response - excommunication or refusal to give communion: Gray Davis in 2003, John Kerry in 2004, Patrick Kennedy in 2007, and Joe Biden in 2008. And Pope Benedict in 2007 agreed that Mexican legislators who voted to legalize abortion should be excommunicated. Perhaps Mr. Bush is not as devout as suggested or the Church is not serious about the sanctity of life.
50
We had another fellow named George Bush who was very closely connected to his Christian religion who was bumped into the Presidency through massive voter irregularities in Governor Jeb Bush's Florida.
That worked out catastrophically for America in almost every way imaginable.
The last thing America needs is another Bush who's inspired by his religion that "doesn’t move with the tides of modern times".
The man personally interfered with Terry Schiavo's private family matters and had the state reinsert a feeding tube into her vegetative body to support his and his voter base's alleged 'culture of life'.
What America needs the most right now is separation of church, synagogue, mosque, campaign bribery, election-rigging and state - something Jeb Bush appears fundamentally uninterested in.
Run away from this preacher as fast as you can, America.
That worked out catastrophically for America in almost every way imaginable.
The last thing America needs is another Bush who's inspired by his religion that "doesn’t move with the tides of modern times".
The man personally interfered with Terry Schiavo's private family matters and had the state reinsert a feeding tube into her vegetative body to support his and his voter base's alleged 'culture of life'.
What America needs the most right now is separation of church, synagogue, mosque, campaign bribery, election-rigging and state - something Jeb Bush appears fundamentally uninterested in.
Run away from this preacher as fast as you can, America.
465
Adherence to ideologies demand obedience to the control of others deemed to be the ideology authority regardless of whether the ideology is political, cultural or religious. That's not a good sign for someone who thinks they may have a free will and have to make decisions that utilize the largest and most dangerous war-capable country in the history of mankind. And that is more true for the US given its history of eager interference in the internal affairs of other countries.
11
I wonder how the Pope's comments on economic exploitation and climate change will affect Bush's beliefs.
Unless the church is really made in man's image.
If dolphins were religious, would their god not be another dolphin?
Unless the church is really made in man's image.
If dolphins were religious, would their god not be another dolphin?
22
Will he listen to the Catholic Church when they talk about the harm that Paul Ryan's budget does to the most vulnerable members of our society?
154
"'You hear people say, ‘I don’t want to impose my faith,’” Mr. Bush told the newspaper The Florida Catholic days after leaving office in 2007. 'Well, it’s not an imposition of faith. It’s who you are.'”
“I believe in a president whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation, or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.” Sen. John F. Kennedy, "Houston speech", 1960
Would Jeb Bush agree with the then Senator Kennedy?
“I believe in a president whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation, or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.” Sen. John F. Kennedy, "Houston speech", 1960
Would Jeb Bush agree with the then Senator Kennedy?
74
"private affair'? You act (make a decision) as based on what you know (or have learned) - as to the most reasonable ethics (Aristotle, Jesus from Nazareth,...). What is private and public? Is your ideal just to listen and follow the (democratic) majority of fools for example in ethical matters?
1
Removing a patient from life support when there is no hope of recovery is not inconsistent with Catholic teaching on the subject.
Given that this mistaken claim was made early on in the article, it's interesting that the governor's conflict with church teaching over capital punishment was pushed to the bottom.
I'm also going to guess that the pope does not think highly of many of the governor's stances. See if that makes a difference now that the pope isn't a staunch conservative. Appeal to authority is easily discarded on the right.
Given that this mistaken claim was made early on in the article, it's interesting that the governor's conflict with church teaching over capital punishment was pushed to the bottom.
I'm also going to guess that the pope does not think highly of many of the governor's stances. See if that makes a difference now that the pope isn't a staunch conservative. Appeal to authority is easily discarded on the right.
14
Wow -- what a "values" guy -- tried to force the husband of Terri Schiavo to keep her in a vegetative state, refused an abortion for mentally challenged 13 year old, was "upset" when a subsequent governor didn't execute a ten year old, and directed 76 executions while governor -- a record for Florida. He'd have been "swell" at the Spanish Inquistion -- lighting the flames to burn the "heretics" ie. anyone not Catholic or drawing and quartering. God save us from this man of so little compassion or common sense or decency.
350
No, Jeb didn't want the execution of a 10-year-old. He wanted the execution of the murderer of a 10-year-old. Hardly the same, is it?
6
Don't know if the Times comments section lets you edit but you should fix that comment about executing a ten-year-old.
3
As a Catholic, I'm embarrassed by some of the people in charge of our country who call themselves Catholic, e.g., John Boehner, Paul Ryan, most members of the Supreme Court. Why? Because they don't seem to believe in the Seven Principles of Catholic Social Teaching, and I doubt Jeb Bush does either. Also, none of them seem to believe in what Pope Francis, or Jesus for that matter, teaches/taught. So...spare me dissertations on Jeb Bush's so-called "values." Something tells me they don't match my values, nor would they be good for the country.
10
What we need in American politicians is less "faith" and more reason.
249
Thomas Aquinas demonstrated that faith and reason must match if both are valid. If one's faith is beyond reason, it is fallacious. Maybe Jeb should read T.A. instead of the lesser lights he seems to follow.
4
Execution of a human being OK, but aborting a fetus is not? A politician guided by "his faith" that is not shared by millions?
Government by religion? No thanks.
Government by religion? No thanks.
65
It is good to know that Bush let's his Catholic faith guide him ... one more reason to not vote for him. A President should be cognizant of the law, not whether the law follows his personal religious faith.
431
Agreed. I would worry about a president who, when faced with a problem, would ask himself "What would Jesus do?"
12
Actually it would be nice if they asked what Jesus would do instead of what St. Reagan would do. You know, love thy neighbor, help the poor, feed the hungry.
34
you forgot the law(s) is based on values; law itself means nothing. The letter of a law that what counts! Consequently one does not have so called a "neutral" law;it is always created by a society with a goal to protect its functioning ("do not harm the other"). In a theory, ex. the majority (of thieves) could make a law (steal as much as you wish") and wait to self-destruction of such society.
the textbooks of ethics are in library still available; I hope a library is around
the textbooks of ethics are in library still available; I hope a library is around