All the comments that are using this article to raise black-on-black crime are showing their own ingrained racism. Why do you so many of you presume that these clearly thoughtful educated black parents are living in ghettoes where their young black boys would be exposed to poverty-driven violence? How is black-on-black crime relevant to the conversation when you live in an upscale suburb or neighborhood? Do you suppose these black parents are unaware where the real danger to their children lies?
I experienced this same level of ignorance when I was in an urban studies class at an elite Midwestern university. The topic was on the inner city and the lack of mobility by black people out of those areas. At one point the T.A. looked at me and the only other black girl in the class and said brightly, why don't we hear from people who might have firsthand experience on this topic. I blinked at her and stayed silent. Having grown up abroad, I had never been to a ghetto in my life. What was she looking at me for? The other black girl also stayed quiet. After class she told me her father was a CEO and she had been raised in a wealthy suburb of Chicago and she had never been to the inner city either. We both looked at each other, shook our heads and sighed. That was the first time I felt the weight of the black stereotype in America and I never forgot it.
2
I was amazed when I saw that this video, presented as the first in what was to then be a new Conversations About Race series on March 17, 2015, is here today open for comments again. I also note the coincidence that first out this time is Susan Anderson from Boston, one of my favorite Verifieds, as she already knows and the last back in 2016 is also from Boston123.
I connect their comments thanks to having grown up south of Boston and having been re-educated by living 21 years in Sweden where every single week I have met asylum seekers some of them like the immigrants boston123 has in mind.
Yes, everyone should see this video. And then one should ask why in America, so many people, especially those seen as "black", are pulled over for having a missing tail or headlight. Every single day in Linköping, SE I see cars with a missing light but I never see a law officer pulling anyone over. I believe that only when there is a rare police control for alcohol testing would the driver be told to fix the light. Otherwise that will happen at annual inspection time.
As for boston123 we could have a long conversation but I just note one thing, his/her statement that every immigrant community must find a group to look down upon. 1) Do not generalize, communities do not do what you claim. 2) Note that the USCB system of classifying us Americans was created to facilitate looking down upon our fellow citizens. Get rid of it.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
@ myself - After I submitted the comment I went to the Red Cross for Träna svenska and sat for two hours with my 2 Swedish colleagues and 3 young men, 1 Born in Somalia, now Swedish citizen and 2 born in Eritrea, hoping to become Swedish citizens. We talked about the difference between what they would experience in Linköping, were they to be driving a car with a non-working taillight or headlight and what they might experience in countless areas in the USA.
My Swedish colleagues agreed that a police officer - rare sight - is not going to bother stopping people driving with missing light, too trivial, will be taken care of at car inspection. But were these 3 from the Horn of Africa to to be driving in America, anything is possible.
This white Canadian woman is in tears. No parent should have to have this 'talk' with their child here in North America in 2017.
Those parents are so strong, and underneath that strength they tell us about their great fear for their children, just because of who they are.
I wish every person on our continent could see this. I think Canadian parents of colour, and particularly Aborginal parents probably have this conversation. We are certainly not without sin. I have mixed race grand children. I know that they will face some racism in their lives, but I hope, and I may be deluded in that hope, that being targeted by the police will not be one of the burdens they bear because of the colour of their skin.
Thank you to those who participated.
3
Everyone, everyone, everyone, should have to see this. I have friends who are Black women and all of them have been pulled over and some of them have been falsely accused. DWB is definitely a thing. Even Obama has been stopped.
Thank you NYT for putting this front and center again!
3
I believe we could start by asking all immigrants to this country to learn something about the African American struggle. It is true that every immigrant community, including some of color, decide at some time they must find a group they can look down upon, and invariably end up picking on African Americans. The cop in Minnesota was a Latino, and I would not be surprised if he is no more than 1-2 generations removed from his immigrant ancestors.
My proposal is that every person should learn about US history, esp about slavery, the Plessey versus Ferguson Supreme Court case, the SC Chief Justice Roger Taney right after the civil war and his role in developing Jim Crow laws, and then ask themselves: how would I fare if my ancestors's families were split, sold off, and had to live in a apartheid society until the 1950's when Brown vs board of education passed, or the 60's when civil rights act was passed? Yes, every immigrant should be told at the naturalization ceremony that it's not enough to make a good life in the US, but to also acknowledge and take on the debt owed to the African American community.
My proposal is that every person should learn about US history, esp about slavery, the Plessey versus Ferguson Supreme Court case, the SC Chief Justice Roger Taney right after the civil war and his role in developing Jim Crow laws, and then ask themselves: how would I fare if my ancestors's families were split, sold off, and had to live in a apartheid society until the 1950's when Brown vs board of education passed, or the 60's when civil rights act was passed? Yes, every immigrant should be told at the naturalization ceremony that it's not enough to make a good life in the US, but to also acknowledge and take on the debt owed to the African American community.
1
What nonsense. The discussion all parents need to have, indeed the example all parents need to set, is how to be moral, behave properly and especially for blacks, how to behave in an encounter with police. Which means cooperation and respect and not confrontation or threats. This lesson has not been learned by many and leads to escalation which causes the violence.
4
Douglas, Yes, I agree, cooperate and respect, but I would go further. Having co-conducted, usually with a person of color, over 250 workshops on what to do when stopped by the police --- attended by youth, their parents, and directors of youth centers, schools and residences, we do need to tell our children: to cooperate, but cooperation is often not easy. Our main message was -- avoid taking on the police, even if they act suspicious, confrontational, insulting, or push you around. We say, "This maybe the toughest advice anyone has asked you to take but your life may depend on whether or not you take it. You have to stay cool and cooperate and we will tell you why." Then we use social group work methods to sound them out on many possible contingencies --- The officer may be afraid, you maybe afraid, the power of the flight and fight syndrome, show your hands, but do not ask for a badge number during an angry confrontation, what to say and not say if arrested, and what to take note of if you want to file a complaint. We say that you cannot win taking on an officer on the street but you can organize, and we gave examples of successful non-violent actions that did change police behavior. My experience comes from being a white man with a son and grandson of color and 60 years of service as social group worker and executive in inner-city settlement houses. My workshop partner usually was a retired school teacher and guidance counselor.
What nonsense. The discussion all police officers need to have, indeed the example all police officers need to set, is how to be moral, behave properly and especially for white police officers, how to behave in an encounter with black citizens. Which means cooperation and respect and not confrontation or threats. This lesson has not been learned by many and leads to escalation which causes the violence.
3
Having to live with the fear that your beloved son is in danger of police brutality every time he goes out must be painful to live with. The conversations in this video have convinced me that there is an urgent need to mandate community policing instruction and implementation nationwide so that officers of the peace will be more likely to function just as the title says: Officers of the Peace. Laws are meant to be a deterrent to crime so that all citizens of any background, age, religion or sexual orientation may pursue life, liberty and happiness. That's the founding principle stated in the Declaration of Independence. None of us can be fully free to enjoy the peace under constant threat of armed violence. In my opinion, efforts to pass stricter gun control laws approved of by 90% of voters and 75% of NRA members. Since the 1968 assassinations of MLK and RFK, more than twice the number of Americans have died from gunshot than in all the wars since the country was founded. Guns represent the top threat to national security. Let's put our efforts where they belong. Harassment of peace-abiding, lawful citizens will not increase our national security. Securing guns will. So let's change our focus to something fair, productive and crucial. Let's train the officers of the peace to learn how to relate culturally to different communities peaceably.
1
And this is the conversation I have to have with my sons, who are half-Pakistani. They've been having "special treatment" going through airports since they were born - try explaining to a 6 year old when the agent is going through his backpack so carefully why saying "I hope she doesn't put TNT in there" isn't funny. And to an 11-yr. old, in a wheelchair, with bandaged feet after an operation who's getting more than the once-over -- what do you say? They can never, even in non-flight situations say "that's da bomb" to anyone for fear of being overheard and misinterpreted. While I don't want to diminish the unjust treatment of blacks, we need to talk about the unjust treatment of those perceived to be - or who actually are - Muslim. Just this week, headlines state parents protested children using Arabic during a school's foreign language week. Did they protest French or Spanish? It appears not. Online comments are rife with hatred and accusations and out right lies about Muslims - and it is largely tolerated. There is no Anti-Defamation League for Muslims, little or no empathy, and massive misatribution of ISIS and Al-Qaeda actions and rhetoric with more than a billion people worldwide. We must speak up for all mistreatment. Profiling is wrong, subliminal or not. We must be conscious of racial, ethnic and religious bias and fight that, not "the other."
5
You tell them the truth. That in your ancestral country sympathetic to Jihad and want to do harm to the rest. No different than what my Grt. grandfather, who come over from Germany on the boat, told my grandfather and uncles. Hitler and the Nazi's were evil and needed to be defeated. It was my grandfathers obligation as a German American to fight that evil. So it should be with your sons. No shame in that
2
I'm an old white woman. I was a child in Alabama during the Civil Rights movement and it breaks my heart that America has gotten no further than this. I could only weep with the father who cried in the video.
I so want it to be better than this.
I so want it to be better than this.
7
At 3:15 we hear: "In America, because of your skin color, as a Black boy, and as a Black man, we are going to be dealing with a lot of danger." Right, I believe it, too. My questions: In America, as a Black boy, as a Black man, is it more dangerous to live in a White neighborhood, an Asian neighborhood, an Hispanic neighborhood, or a Black neighborhood? What is the primary danger? Be honest. Is it the Police? Is it White thugs? Other minorities? Or is it Black thugs?
6
Your point is noted, but a
s a society we have direct control over the actions of our police, but do not control "black thugs."
s a society we have direct control over the actions of our police, but do not control "black thugs."
4
Enough of this whining and police bashing. Teach your children of any race to obey the law. Sadly, innocent blacks, who are the majority, have to pay the price for those of their race who disproportionately commit crimes more than any other race, with Hispanics close behind. To those in the video and others who feel the same: Teach your children not to make bad choices: having children while a teenager, dropping out of school, deciding that welfare and food stamps are a way of life, joining gangs, and getting involved with doing and/or selling drugs.
The main goal is to realize that society, the government, the police, and whites are not your enemy. You are your own worst enemy if you choose to do wrong and blame it on others. Personal responsibility. It matters.
The main goal is to realize that society, the government, the police, and whites are not your enemy. You are your own worst enemy if you choose to do wrong and blame it on others. Personal responsibility. It matters.
4
Saying that innocent black people should accept police brutality because some blacks commit crimes is like saying women should accept rape because some women sell their bodies.
Look up "Criming While White".
Personal responsibility means taking responsibility for one's self not for an entire community. If you want all Blacks to take responsibility for the Blacks that commit crimes, then all Whites need to take responsibility for the disproportionate amount of White police officers that kill innocent people.
Look up "Criming While White".
Personal responsibility means taking responsibility for one's self not for an entire community. If you want all Blacks to take responsibility for the Blacks that commit crimes, then all Whites need to take responsibility for the disproportionate amount of White police officers that kill innocent people.
18
William Penn wrote, "Neither despise, nor oppose, what thou dost not understand."
It is very easy to pretend to understand what one does not understand. Often the degree to which we oppose a thing marks the degree to which we do not understand it. Sometimes we use our opposition to an idea to cover up own ignorance.
It is very easy to pretend to understand what one does not understand. Often the degree to which we oppose a thing marks the degree to which we do not understand it. Sometimes we use our opposition to an idea to cover up own ignorance.
6
What a ridiculous, racist response! This article is all about people who OBEY the law and are treated like criminals anyway! As a mountain of literature has demonstrated, blacks are disproportionately targeted and accused by the police, and that results in disproportionate crime statistics. Police who shoot innocent black people ARE the enemy, as are those who make excuses for them.
1
For those looking for resources as they prepare to have conversations with their Black children about race... http://bit.ly/vowguide1
Need more specific "talk" about what and what not to do and say.
1
If you are not at the wrong place at the wrong time, not carrying a weapon, are respectful of the law and do not talk back and do not act aggressively and if you do not break any traffic regulations (including not having broken headlights, etc.)not carrying drugs in your car or on you, etc. everyone should do just fine.
1
Being a Black man in America means that you are at the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't know one Black man that hasn't been pulled over, frisked or put face down on the ground by the police. I'm upper middle class and educated and so are most of the Black people I know.
My childhood friend's son was a Black police officer killed by a White police officer when he was off duty - "mistaken identity".
I don't know one Black man that hasn't been pulled over, frisked or put face down on the ground by the police. I'm upper middle class and educated and so are most of the Black people I know.
My childhood friend's son was a Black police officer killed by a White police officer when he was off duty - "mistaken identity".
16
History both past and present shows that if you are white and in violation of all the things that you listed, you have a very high probability of not being harassed, arrested, or dying at he hands of police.
I invite you to look at the reaction of police responding to a call where a white woman has just killed two of her children. Police arrive, she's holding a butcher knife, refuses to dropped it when order to do so.
Guess what? She lives!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-mother-charged-with-killing-...
I invite you to look at the reaction of police responding to a call where a white woman has just killed two of her children. Police arrive, she's holding a butcher knife, refuses to dropped it when order to do so.
Guess what? She lives!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-mother-charged-with-killing-...
6
I'm African-American. When I was coming home from the then-known HIP center with my mother, who was behind the wheel, we were pulled over by the police. They thought they were in a stolen car, but I knew the car wasn't much (heh). My mother was nervous, but I, who was 20 going to 21 and attending college, wasn't. I told one of the police officers, with my arms against my chest where my mother and I were coming from. I shook hands with the police officer before he left.
The thing is you can't afford to be an uneducated, black man in this country. You have to be smart, wise and thoughtful.
The thing is you can't afford to be an uneducated, black man in this country. You have to be smart, wise and thoughtful.
1
I'm a black male and my father was a cop for 30 years. I had the conversation early on. However, it went something like this...
My father made it pretty clear to me that if I am ever confronted by a cop that I am to obey with out question even if I believe I am being harassed. He drilled in my head that it didn't matter if I felt I was right and the cop was wrong. The side of the road is not the time to play Johnny Cochran arguing with the police. He simply told me deal with the situation in the court or after I get home.
My parents also made it clear that I was to carry myself with respect at all times which meant not acting and dressing like I am on the set of a hip hop video.
Despite being pulled over for minor infractions on numerous occasions by white police, I've never once had a cop step out of line. I've never been arrested. Neither have most of my black friends. On the other hand, my friends who were thugging hard seem to be magnets for police.
My father made it pretty clear to me that if I am ever confronted by a cop that I am to obey with out question even if I believe I am being harassed. He drilled in my head that it didn't matter if I felt I was right and the cop was wrong. The side of the road is not the time to play Johnny Cochran arguing with the police. He simply told me deal with the situation in the court or after I get home.
My parents also made it clear that I was to carry myself with respect at all times which meant not acting and dressing like I am on the set of a hip hop video.
Despite being pulled over for minor infractions on numerous occasions by white police, I've never once had a cop step out of line. I've never been arrested. Neither have most of my black friends. On the other hand, my friends who were thugging hard seem to be magnets for police.
12
Thank you for your wise words. I think it is a simple matter of teaching your children common sense behavior in order to exist peacefully and not face confrontation. It is not a racial problem; it is a problem stemming from lack of respect for an individuals behavior.
I have the same response when witnessing white men dressed and acting like rappers and wonder what the percentages of them are confronted by police. And it is not just a conversation regarding
black parents; it is a conversation that should be had in all families, black or white. It is so simple that I am stunned that it is a lesson that has been rejected by many young men. "Attitude, swagger" will get one into trouble but it is their fault - so beware and heed the message avoiding this problem.
I have the same response when witnessing white men dressed and acting like rappers and wonder what the percentages of them are confronted by police. And it is not just a conversation regarding
black parents; it is a conversation that should be had in all families, black or white. It is so simple that I am stunned that it is a lesson that has been rejected by many young men. "Attitude, swagger" will get one into trouble but it is their fault - so beware and heed the message avoiding this problem.
You have very good insight. What is the common denominator for all young black men dying at the hands of a police officer?? Answer, they all resisted arrest. I am white but I have the common sense approach to be respectful when stopped by s police officer in recognizing the difficult job they have. I teach my children the same. I also believe this latest UVA incident was a result of resisting arrest. It will be revealed soon. The media jumps on the narratives that increase viewership. Case in point, Ferguson. A lie by a thug and a would be cop killer.
I had the same conversation with my kids male and female. When one was escorted home by the police for breaking curfew she knew the one she had to fear was me. First thing I did was thank the police officer and then ask if she had been respectful. She knew my attitude if she would be 100% different if she had given him any guff.
And I am white
And I am white
Parents should tell their Black sons that in an area like Chicago they are more likely to be murdered by another Black person than any non-Black boy .
Check Chicago DNA . Just about every murder committed this year - and there are 61 so far ( a yearly total in most cities ) - involves a young Black male.
There has been no rioting or looting so none of these were committed by a White Police officer . Why aren't there protests and marches about Blacks being killed by other Blacks?
Check Chicago DNA . Just about every murder committed this year - and there are 61 so far ( a yearly total in most cities ) - involves a young Black male.
There has been no rioting or looting so none of these were committed by a White Police officer . Why aren't there protests and marches about Blacks being killed by other Blacks?
7
It is clear both from this video and form the comments that blacks and whites do not see the world in the same way.
Perhaps it would be better if, to the extent possible, they went their separate ways. Blacks would be worse off, but at lest they could not longer blame whites.
Perhaps it would be better if, to the extent possible, they went their separate ways. Blacks would be worse off, but at lest they could not longer blame whites.
1
@Jared Taylor
What does "go their separate ways" even mean?
We're all Americans. Nobody is going anywhere.
What does "go their separate ways" even mean?
We're all Americans. Nobody is going anywhere.
I'd say there are too many Whites who enjoy feeling superior to other Whites who they believe to be racist. You know, southerners, cops, guys who work with their hands, conservatives, anyone who disagrees with Obama.
And I'd say there are too many Blacks who excuse themselves because they are victims. And there are too many Blacks, and some Whites, who make a career out of playing up racism, finding it wherever they may go.
So, if all Whites were suddenly devoid of any trace of racism and if every cop was as well, how would things be different. Would all the Black gangs break up, would suddenly Black families reunite, would Black kids universally cherish education? Would Black on Black crime cease? Would the crime rate for Blacks suddenly become in line with that of Whites and other races?
Well, other than Al Sharpton losing his income and some writers having to find new topics, would things really change?
I recommend any of you with an open mind to read Jason Riley's column in the Wall Street Journal for an excellent on racism.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/jason-l-riley-black-liberals-and-oklahomas-v...
And I'd say there are too many Blacks who excuse themselves because they are victims. And there are too many Blacks, and some Whites, who make a career out of playing up racism, finding it wherever they may go.
So, if all Whites were suddenly devoid of any trace of racism and if every cop was as well, how would things be different. Would all the Black gangs break up, would suddenly Black families reunite, would Black kids universally cherish education? Would Black on Black crime cease? Would the crime rate for Blacks suddenly become in line with that of Whites and other races?
Well, other than Al Sharpton losing his income and some writers having to find new topics, would things really change?
I recommend any of you with an open mind to read Jason Riley's column in the Wall Street Journal for an excellent on racism.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/jason-l-riley-black-liberals-and-oklahomas-v...
9
Hey New York Times, this is important but a bit too specific. What about the types of conversations non-black parents should be having with their non-black sons about white privilege? About standing in solidarity with black friends, classmates, neighbors and fellow human beings? What about conversations that black parents have with black daughters, who they are also hassled by police and subject to sexual harrassment and violence by cops and other adults. *All* adults need to participate in making sure that all youth are aware of these critically important issues, and to stand in solidarity to end racism and to ensure that police show appropriate restraint and respect to all humans. And while we are at it, let's make sure that they all know about fighting gender-based stereotyping and discrimination and violence, too.
11
I'm a white woman, and my parents *never* gave me "the talk." I got stopped (in my twenties) for a taillight being out, and when I realized that I had given the officer an outdated registration, I *got out of my car* and approached the officer, who was seated in his driver's seat, to give him the registration. He was surprised but accepted it. He never corrected my behavior or said a word about it. It wasn't until later that I realized how lucky I was, and how stupid. Part of that "luck" AND stupidity comes from being a white woman.
Later, I reflected on how the one black colleague I had at the time was stopped several times on his commute in the white suburb where we were employed. He was working his way through college, and drove a junker car. He made for a very visible target. He ended up okay, married, with a middle-class life and a kid. Incidentally, the son of the man (white) who owned our business was reckoned to be one of the biggest drug dealers in the very big (mostly white) public school system. Never got caught. That drug-dealing kid now has a few kids of his own, and is living comfortably in a half-a-million-dollar home.
People who can't see the inequality in their everyday lives must really like it that way.
Later, I reflected on how the one black colleague I had at the time was stopped several times on his commute in the white suburb where we were employed. He was working his way through college, and drove a junker car. He made for a very visible target. He ended up okay, married, with a middle-class life and a kid. Incidentally, the son of the man (white) who owned our business was reckoned to be one of the biggest drug dealers in the very big (mostly white) public school system. Never got caught. That drug-dealing kid now has a few kids of his own, and is living comfortably in a half-a-million-dollar home.
People who can't see the inequality in their everyday lives must really like it that way.
15
How do we attract the best "public safety officers" ?
Recently we've looked to Finland to examine how they attract the best teachers.
Perhaps $$$ & public esteem are part of the equation.
Recently we've looked to Finland to examine how they attract the best teachers.
Perhaps $$$ & public esteem are part of the equation.
1
The main problem is with the constitutional right to possess a weapon. As such the policeman assumes everyone to possess a weapon. The next comes the assumption that the black people are generally violent mainly due to the physical and excessively verbal abuse, alcholic and drug abuse among many poor black families, who also happen to be illiterates with practically no income or very less income.
As long as the educational and economic disparity gap is not filled in line with the other people, things are not that easy to improve. The racial bias might not play that much bigger role as was the case many decades back but it still worsens the situation.
As long as the educational and economic disparity gap is not filled in line with the other people, things are not that easy to improve. The racial bias might not play that much bigger role as was the case many decades back but it still worsens the situation.
2
Black boys have a lot more to fear from their neighbors than they do from the police.
8
Whom does a black police officer usually stop for checking- Black or white? A part of the answer may lie in understanding the black officers perception of society.
2
And please tell your son that Blacks have rightly EARNED the suspicion of police. At 13% of the population, Blacks commit over 1/2 of all crimes. So, the simple fact is that a black youth is more likely to have committed a crime than any other racial profile. Your son should enculturation into the larger community. Don't act or dress like a gangsta wannabe and don't hang around those that do. It's what good parents through the ages have done.
2
This is the most despicable misuse of statistics. 1. If you search for dirt ONLY in your bedroom and NEVER in your living room, you'd conclude bedrooms are always dirty and living rooms always clean. Fact is white police officers only look in black neighborhoods and ignore rampant crimes in white areas. Senator Booker rightfully stated most frat houses have far more drugs than people living in black communities, yet frat (white) guys get by with no risk of encountering law enforcement. 2. Are all blacks guilty because SOME commit crimes? Eric Frein killed two police officers. Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building. Yet those crimes are not extrapolated to be indicative of the whole white race. You are guilty of painting a whole race of people for the acts of a few. Despicable indeed.
10
Every parent of every race needs to have the same conversation with their children. Not just black people. Maybe statistics also reflect that white parents have already been having this same conversation for generations.
I taught my three sons to stop, listen, speak minimally and respectfully. My own Dad taught me, in 1968, to say "Yes Sir" and I have had occasion to do so. Should I say I was profiled for speeding while white?
My 36-year-old son is a musician who is always making his way home after hours. He has been pulled over many times. He tells me that he puts on the dome light, puts his ID on the dash and his hands on the wheel. He doesn't feel like a victim and he doesn't behave like one. Since he has to drive home at this statistically more dangerous time of night, he appreciates that the police are doing their job.
I'm a teacher and I've had many parents who are police, both black and white, and sadly, one young father who was ambushed and killed during a foot chase. I have always known these officers to be respectable and concerned members of the community, and they are happy to come and talk to our classes. The earlier the better, to forge a good relationship.
I taught my three sons to stop, listen, speak minimally and respectfully. My own Dad taught me, in 1968, to say "Yes Sir" and I have had occasion to do so. Should I say I was profiled for speeding while white?
My 36-year-old son is a musician who is always making his way home after hours. He has been pulled over many times. He tells me that he puts on the dome light, puts his ID on the dash and his hands on the wheel. He doesn't feel like a victim and he doesn't behave like one. Since he has to drive home at this statistically more dangerous time of night, he appreciates that the police are doing their job.
I'm a teacher and I've had many parents who are police, both black and white, and sadly, one young father who was ambushed and killed during a foot chase. I have always known these officers to be respectable and concerned members of the community, and they are happy to come and talk to our classes. The earlier the better, to forge a good relationship.
3
Why only a conversation with sons? If racism was truly the issue, would black women also be unreasonably stopped by police?
Perhaps someone should look at how our criminal justice system is biased against men. That bias is much more extreme than the alleged bias against blacks.
Perhaps someone should look at how our criminal justice system is biased against men. That bias is much more extreme than the alleged bias against blacks.
My mother made it absolutely clear how I was to act if pulled over or stopped. She made it clear that consequences of not obeying a police officer would be serious and could lead to getting killed. I am white. She was white. These tragic cases with blacks all seem to relate to talking back and acting aggressive. In high school it was the same. A lot of the blacks would talk back and act aggressive to the teachers. The few that did what they were told were so exceptional they ended up in good colleges. The aggressive behavior which is so valuable on the football field is not so valuable in interactions with the police, their wives/girlfriends, and employers. On the other hand many women seem to find it attractive.
5
ah, I see. So it's their fault? And the accounts of the individuals in this documentary - probably they were talking back and being rude too? Or they're lying or exaggerating?
6
A talk with "teenagers?" Hardly.
When children playing with toy guns in playgrounds can be instantly and summarily executed with impunity by the drive by death squad that is the local police, it's become sadly clear that this is a talk for any Black child beyond the age of seven or eight...
Am I overreacting? Tell that to the family of a boy in Ohio. Tell it to his sister, brutally taken down and then harassed, who had to witness the death of her brother. Tell it to Black children in schools who can be arrested by the school cop and hauled off to jail (and the permanent damage of a record) for being "disrespectful" to his teacher....
What a horrific tragedy!
When children playing with toy guns in playgrounds can be instantly and summarily executed with impunity by the drive by death squad that is the local police, it's become sadly clear that this is a talk for any Black child beyond the age of seven or eight...
Am I overreacting? Tell that to the family of a boy in Ohio. Tell it to his sister, brutally taken down and then harassed, who had to witness the death of her brother. Tell it to Black children in schools who can be arrested by the school cop and hauled off to jail (and the permanent damage of a record) for being "disrespectful" to his teacher....
What a horrific tragedy!
11
To speak only of skin color is to give just part of the lesson. While racist cops are everywhere. they prey mostly on those in the poorest areas and mostly on the poor. There is a vast gap between the wealthy black suburbs of DC and the poor black areas of the Bronx. And there is a notable difference in behavior, dress, and language between affluent blacks and ghetto blacks. A few times a year we hear of upscale blacks in upscale areas being harassed. But for ghetto blacks in ghetto areas it's an everyday thing. I think that drawing our attention to the experiences of the upscale detracts from our concern for the core problem, and that those complaining of a borderline issue ought to rethink.
4
Well, but it's not just poor black individuals. Think of Henry Louis Gates getting in trouble for struggling with the door of his house. Think of the endless need to dress your class and look affluent and middle-class, rather than being able to run to the store in grotty jeans. It's true - being poor and black is an intersection that is particularly painful. But being black is tough enough, in terms of the conversations it requires you to have with your child.
6
My colleague arrived late last week. I found him at his desk very upset, logging onto the State DMV site. Shaken up, he told me, "this cop keeps running my plates". Apparently he has been stopped 5 times in his new car (6 months old). This time the cop got him for having a days old expired license - all the while threatening that he should arrest him for it. Had I not found him in such an unguarded state, I would never know this professional man is being harassed for driving while black, on his way to work in the morning. I was driving around for almost a year not to far back, with an expired license and never knew until I had to supply it for some paperwork. As a white person it was not so great a risk not having my papers in order.
25
If u had broken a law you would have been busted for that as well. Perhaps ur friend was speeding, et al,
Two aspects of many of the comments that deserve reflection.
# 1 is the blanket statement Blacks commit more crimes or are over represented in prison with zero understanding of how systemic bias influences that number.
If Blacks receive prison sentences when Whites receive probation for the same offense, or if they get terms twice as long for the same offense, Blacks will be over represented in prisons. Simple math gets 13% of the population to 21% of the prison population based on longer sentencing.
Then, if police deploy their manpower based on the disparate stats, then they will arrest a higher percentage of Black criminals then White criminals. Tactics such as "stop and frisk", when applied on basis on the above, gets you from 21% to 32% of the prison pop based on higher closure rate.
# 2 is the false equivalence of "if Blacks commit more crimes they should automatically be OK with having their civil rights violated by police". Everyone pregnant is female does not mean that every female is pregnant.
What too many who have not experienced it do not appreciate is how frequent INNOCENT young Black males are stopped by police for driving or walking while Black. In too many of these encounters, police are needlessly provocative or disrespectful and escalate the situation. It is this exchange, which is a reality for Blacks, that parents are having "the conversation" about. It is not about, "if you just robbed a store, please cooperate with the Police".
# 1 is the blanket statement Blacks commit more crimes or are over represented in prison with zero understanding of how systemic bias influences that number.
If Blacks receive prison sentences when Whites receive probation for the same offense, or if they get terms twice as long for the same offense, Blacks will be over represented in prisons. Simple math gets 13% of the population to 21% of the prison population based on longer sentencing.
Then, if police deploy their manpower based on the disparate stats, then they will arrest a higher percentage of Black criminals then White criminals. Tactics such as "stop and frisk", when applied on basis on the above, gets you from 21% to 32% of the prison pop based on higher closure rate.
# 2 is the false equivalence of "if Blacks commit more crimes they should automatically be OK with having their civil rights violated by police". Everyone pregnant is female does not mean that every female is pregnant.
What too many who have not experienced it do not appreciate is how frequent INNOCENT young Black males are stopped by police for driving or walking while Black. In too many of these encounters, police are needlessly provocative or disrespectful and escalate the situation. It is this exchange, which is a reality for Blacks, that parents are having "the conversation" about. It is not about, "if you just robbed a store, please cooperate with the Police".
34
Yes, if you look like a member of inner city Blacks be careful. They have set up a tough bar, they are THUGS. Everyone should do as the Police ask,period.
Argue later. Anything else is stupid. Its not a "Black"thing as portrayed here.
Its just whining. And stupid. Inner city Blacks are the problem, not the Police.
Argue later. Anything else is stupid. Its not a "Black"thing as portrayed here.
Its just whining. And stupid. Inner city Blacks are the problem, not the Police.
1
Afro-Americans are not the only ones to worry. Any immigrant---even whites native to Scandanavia----may be culturally attuned not to show deference to an officer who acts illogically. Immigrants may politely challenge the action of a police person, as is customary in their home countries, yet the challenge will be seen as an affront and dealt with, ruthlessly.
One must always assume that the American police operates on the premise "guilty until proven innocent". So do not challenge them, and no matter how outrageous the police person's action, feign deference. If neither works, above all, be silent until you can get legal help.
One must always assume that the American police operates on the premise "guilty until proven innocent". So do not challenge them, and no matter how outrageous the police person's action, feign deference. If neither works, above all, be silent until you can get legal help.
4
I quite agree....
1
Be polite, don't be a wise guy, accept your guilt if it's obvious and appologize, move nice and slow, don't shout, don't spit, don't swear, keep the radio down, no whining and never attack a police officer. If this is too much for you, then good luck!
1
I have to have "the conversation" with my children about not going into certain neighborhoods lest they be robbed, raped, mugged, or murdered. To be careful when he goes to the mall, as there could urban youths "wilding" or playing the "knockout game", and posting it on allstarhiphop or whatever it's called. -- The problem with the "dialogue" about race relations is that it's entirely one-sided. I consider myself a liberal (I voted for the black guy twice), but moderate enough to really see race rhetoric as silly and largely hypocritical. There are VERY few blacks and far-left proponents that are capable of having a fair and honest discussion about race relations.
4
In 1968 my newlywed aunt and her young, handsome husband, both born and raised in Hawaii, drove from our house in the Bay Area to their new home in Lisbon Falls, Maine, where he would be stationed with the U.S. Air Force. My aunt is of Portuguese descent, and my uncle is part Hawaiian and part Chinese, a perfectly unremarkable interracial marriage in the Islands. As they drove across the northern states, excited about being on the mainland for the first time, they were repeatedly pulled over by the police for no apparent reason. Most times they were separated, and my aunt was asked whether she was in the car with him willingly. Of course they both found this treatment frightening and insulting. This is something I often think about when I hear stories from black citizens about being harassed by the police. Frankly, I find it rather easy to believe.
5
Jews who wear kippot or dress like the Haredi, Muslims who wear the hijab, Sikis who wear the turban, all are targets for being treated like the other by Christian America. And the police can be pretty testy with those folks too.
I do agree that Black men have it the worst. But my parents gave me a similar talk when I was growing up in Brooklyn and Queens and I'm a Jewish woman of Middle Eastern(Mizrachi), Spanish (Sephardic) and Eastern European (Ashkenazi) heritage. My Sephardic/Mizrachi father was very clear; he had been harassed by the police because of how he looked and because I looked like him, I might have the same problems. When I was with my Eastern European mother, I was probably safe but when I was alone or with him, I had to be wary and cautious. His instructions to me were not that different than what I heard in the Op-Doc--and I'm short and not that big. I was told that if I was in trouble to find a synagogue or a kosher butcher or delicatessen and ask them for help, and not to go to the police. And to this day, I am still uncomfortable about the police even in liberal Seattle (where as far as I know there are no Jews on the police force).
I do agree that Black men have it the worst. But my parents gave me a similar talk when I was growing up in Brooklyn and Queens and I'm a Jewish woman of Middle Eastern(Mizrachi), Spanish (Sephardic) and Eastern European (Ashkenazi) heritage. My Sephardic/Mizrachi father was very clear; he had been harassed by the police because of how he looked and because I looked like him, I might have the same problems. When I was with my Eastern European mother, I was probably safe but when I was alone or with him, I had to be wary and cautious. His instructions to me were not that different than what I heard in the Op-Doc--and I'm short and not that big. I was told that if I was in trouble to find a synagogue or a kosher butcher or delicatessen and ask them for help, and not to go to the police. And to this day, I am still uncomfortable about the police even in liberal Seattle (where as far as I know there are no Jews on the police force).
3
I am a Black man who grew up in America and now lives in the Netherlands. I am afraid of police in the United States. I am not afraid of police in the Netherlands. Here, the police generally remain calm and never pull any power games with you. In America, police regularly act like Cartman on South Park: "You will respect my authority!". We're taught to treat police like chaotic good Orcs in America, and they act like it. Why can't they be more like people, like in the Netherlands?
8
I would advise my African American son if or when stopped by the police to foremost, signal my intentions; "I'm about to go into the glove comparment to obtain my license and registration".
If he was arrested, I would advise them not to speak to the police until I or his father arrived. I would also advise him to state during his call home; "I am NOT suicidal".
Police I believe are foremost concerned about solving cases. Of course the advent of DNA has made it harder to convict innocent unfortunate souls based solely on "informants" and so called "eye witness" testimony. Still, as police are allowed to lie during interrogations, it is best to say nothing at all until one has an attorney.
Refuse to believe the police as they touch your shoulder and whisper "I'm your new best friend. I just want to ask you a couple of (leading) questions".
No, foremost they want to place someone behind bars and close a case.
I raised you to be a law abiding citizen. You have a right to remain alive and free to pursue your happiness like a American male of any other hue.
If he was arrested, I would advise them not to speak to the police until I or his father arrived. I would also advise him to state during his call home; "I am NOT suicidal".
Police I believe are foremost concerned about solving cases. Of course the advent of DNA has made it harder to convict innocent unfortunate souls based solely on "informants" and so called "eye witness" testimony. Still, as police are allowed to lie during interrogations, it is best to say nothing at all until one has an attorney.
Refuse to believe the police as they touch your shoulder and whisper "I'm your new best friend. I just want to ask you a couple of (leading) questions".
No, foremost they want to place someone behind bars and close a case.
I raised you to be a law abiding citizen. You have a right to remain alive and free to pursue your happiness like a American male of any other hue.
2
The necessity for these conversations suggests that we haven’t totally escaped the 1857 words of Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court Roger B. Taney in the Dred Scott Case. In his assessment of Scott and other blacks Chief Justice Taney said that they were: "… beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect." Although the Civil War, the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution and numerous advancements in respect accorded African Americans have all but eradicated Taney’s horrible opinion, unfortunate vestiges of it still exist in the treatment of too many black males by some in law enforcement.
Incidentally, Justice Taney was married to the sister of Francis Scott Key (a slave holder) who wrote the words to the Star Spangled Banner.
Incidentally, Justice Taney was married to the sister of Francis Scott Key (a slave holder) who wrote the words to the Star Spangled Banner.
3
I realized several years ago why two of my African-American friends were always dressed impeccably. I have never seen my male friend without a dress shirt on, even at a playground with his children on a Sunday. My female friend always seemed overdressed, wearing a dress and pumps to pick up her children from school, whereas other moms would wear jeans or yoga pants. Then it gradually dawned on me that they dressed that way to overcome any potential prejudice stemming from their race. The realization was distressing and it pained me to think of how they had to be careful of every detail, word and action lest they might be misconstrued. I feel for the parents in the video as well.
Yet, complex issues are rarely cut-and-dry. I believe people are missing a key point: when humans have to make split-second decisions, they rely on perceived past and current data. Now, much of that current data will be based on appearances, since these are fast decisions. Quick, if you had to choose between riding an elevator alone with an elderly Asian woman or a young black man, which would you choose? What about between a black man dressed in a suit and a white man dressed like a thug? What about a black man and a white man, both dressed like thugs? And would your answers be different depending on how vulnerable you felt?
These aren't easy questions, and there are no easy answers. But, as another commenter mentioned, cops do not seem to be particularly jumpy around, say, Asian females. Why not?
Yet, complex issues are rarely cut-and-dry. I believe people are missing a key point: when humans have to make split-second decisions, they rely on perceived past and current data. Now, much of that current data will be based on appearances, since these are fast decisions. Quick, if you had to choose between riding an elevator alone with an elderly Asian woman or a young black man, which would you choose? What about between a black man dressed in a suit and a white man dressed like a thug? What about a black man and a white man, both dressed like thugs? And would your answers be different depending on how vulnerable you felt?
These aren't easy questions, and there are no easy answers. But, as another commenter mentioned, cops do not seem to be particularly jumpy around, say, Asian females. Why not?
16
Wow, these comments bring back memories of growing up in an all white blue collar neighborhood of Chicago. Sad to see that the NYTimes commenters are spewing the same old ugly racist blame-the-victim lines I heard decades ago. We learn nothing.
6
How about you have a talk about how to deal with police and leave race out of it? Stop being racist.
And I'm sorry but why the complete excusing of criminal behavior by young black men?
"Son, when you're robbing a liquor store and putting your fist in some Pakistani's stupid face, make sure you grab a beer with that Swisher Sweet. Oh, and if the cops give you grief about it, just remember, they're racists."
Great life lessons.
And I'm sorry but why the complete excusing of criminal behavior by young black men?
"Son, when you're robbing a liquor store and putting your fist in some Pakistani's stupid face, make sure you grab a beer with that Swisher Sweet. Oh, and if the cops give you grief about it, just remember, they're racists."
Great life lessons.
2
They say hate is passed down through the generations. This article proves it once again.
1
Do Asian parents have this kind of talk with their children? NO. Despite the fact that many of them are extremely poor, they value education and family, and spurn thug culture. They are moving up rapidly and now make on average more than "privileged whites". Are Asians now priveldged? Are Jews privileged? Or is the priviledged moniker levied only on those members of society with a certain skin color?
The black community has bigger fish to fry than a relatively small number of racist cops. It may be momentarily satisfying to have whites play the punching bag for the Black community's cultural failings, but in the long run it won't end up getting anyone anywhere.
The black community has bigger fish to fry than a relatively small number of racist cops. It may be momentarily satisfying to have whites play the punching bag for the Black community's cultural failings, but in the long run it won't end up getting anyone anywhere.
4
Right, because there are no Asian (or anyone non Black) criminals?
1
I cried when I watched this. My neighbors are like these people. The boys who play basketball in the alley are like the sons they are talking about. It is so not fair.
And no, unfortunately it doesn't look like it is necessary to engage in criminal activity or to be a member of the "underclass" for bad things to happen.
And no, unfortunately it doesn't look like it is necessary to engage in criminal activity or to be a member of the "underclass" for bad things to happen.
3
I'm white, and my parents had the exact same talk with me regarding the police. It is good parenting, and has nothing to do with race.
3
I consider it common sense and good parenting, to explain to adolescents (of any race), how to behave when stopped by the police.
Be it a traffic stop, a DUI checkpoint (where the vast majority of people stopped at innocent), or because the police are investigating a crime or patrolling a high crime area.
Keep your hands visible (out of pockets, etc) and steady. Be courteous. Produce identification if required (e.g. traffic stop). Answer basic non-incriminating questions. Politely decline to answer anything incriminating.
Above all, don't behave like Michael Brown - punching the officer and trying to grab his gun - or Eric Garner refusing arrests and threatening the police "this stops today".
Not sure why the conversation is any different if your son is white or black.
Be it a traffic stop, a DUI checkpoint (where the vast majority of people stopped at innocent), or because the police are investigating a crime or patrolling a high crime area.
Keep your hands visible (out of pockets, etc) and steady. Be courteous. Produce identification if required (e.g. traffic stop). Answer basic non-incriminating questions. Politely decline to answer anything incriminating.
Above all, don't behave like Michael Brown - punching the officer and trying to grab his gun - or Eric Garner refusing arrests and threatening the police "this stops today".
Not sure why the conversation is any different if your son is white or black.
4
I don't get it. I've seen articles giving advice to the American public in general about what to do if the police pulls you over. Why does anyone have to put it in terms of being "black"?
1
The NYT is perpetuating this problem if it continues to refuse to cover a key part of this problem: Violence within the black community.
If you will sit down to have a conversation with your child about how to behave around cops - as I hope parents from each and every race will teach their children to behave and be polite around figures of authority - then also take the opportunity to talk about urban violence in general: how to behave around escalating situations, to walk away if your friends are acting stupidly etc.
It is bewildering to me though, that this media outlet covers the 'black issue' so often without having the courage to confront an item that should be openly discussed.
According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites (per 100,000), and the victim rate 6 times higher (per 100,000). Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks.
If you will sit down to have a conversation with your child about how to behave around cops - as I hope parents from each and every race will teach their children to behave and be polite around figures of authority - then also take the opportunity to talk about urban violence in general: how to behave around escalating situations, to walk away if your friends are acting stupidly etc.
It is bewildering to me though, that this media outlet covers the 'black issue' so often without having the courage to confront an item that should be openly discussed.
According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites (per 100,000), and the victim rate 6 times higher (per 100,000). Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks.
3
As a mixed blood orphan raised by white people in an all white county, I say that if you have parents who love you enough to advise you about such serious matters... you are already one of the lucky ones.
On the other hand, if you are an orphan or a foster child or the child of alcoholics or addicts who's been through it all over and over... it should not be surprising that you lack social skills, are seething with pain and anger and have no one or nowhere to turn... and make poor decisions; no matter what your race is.
I understand that this article is actually about how the parents feel... I get it. My 6'3" son is a tall, scary guy... especially on a NW rainy day with a hoodie on. We started the "talks" when he started noticing and asking about cultural discrepancies... we didn't wait till the teens.
On the other hand, if you are an orphan or a foster child or the child of alcoholics or addicts who's been through it all over and over... it should not be surprising that you lack social skills, are seething with pain and anger and have no one or nowhere to turn... and make poor decisions; no matter what your race is.
I understand that this article is actually about how the parents feel... I get it. My 6'3" son is a tall, scary guy... especially on a NW rainy day with a hoodie on. We started the "talks" when he started noticing and asking about cultural discrepancies... we didn't wait till the teens.
3
Show this video back to back with the video taken last week of half a dozen Erasmus Hall High School girls beating up a 15-year-old. One attests to the love and concern demonstrated by good parents; the other to the poor parenting of others. Representative Rodneyse Bichotte in an email to the community blamed social services, the school system, and the welfare system for the girls' vicious behavior.
And not those who brought forth such offspring?
It's tough being a teacher or a cop. And it's tough when good kids are tarred by the behavior of others. Because that's in large part what's happening.
And not those who brought forth such offspring?
It's tough being a teacher or a cop. And it's tough when good kids are tarred by the behavior of others. Because that's in large part what's happening.
3
All of the commenters who blame the supposed behavior of black men for police brutality, are part of the problem. It is not unique to be unaware of one's own racism, not surprising not to be aware of ones one privilege. We live in a white supremacist society. It's hard for whites but really for all of us to admit that. There is a great documentary on PBS called American Denial. Please watch it.
5
I am a black man employed in investment banking in NYC. I have been stopped numerous times because of the way I look and the car I drive. Those who have commented about the threat of black men as criminals don't want to admit that yes in 2015 this country is still a racist one on all levels- employment, housing, policing and more recent voting rights challenges. I guess first comes while privelege and then comes denial.
9
After reading through most of these comments, I am wondering if Faux news did not broadcast a request that all viewers come here and post. Like these posters don't know that white privilege even exists.
5
"White privilege" absolutely, undoubtedly exists...in the fevered imaginings of Social Justice Warriors. Here in the real world, Whites are bombarded with countless images (TV) of bumbling Whites being outwitted by brilliant blacks, with messages about how awful Whites should feel about their achievements and ancestors, and are the one race its absolutely a-ok to stereotype (for that is what the myth/lie of "White privilege" does--relentlessly stereotypes and degrades European-Americans).
For those lamenting that respect be shown towards the “good police officer” I offer the following exchange for you to ponder:
“Yo boy; yeah, you. What you doing up here? Hey, kid. Didn’t you hear speaking to you?”
“Me, Officer? You weren’t speaking to me, were you?
“Yeah, I’m talking to you. What’re you doing up here anyway?”
The youth gestures to the books under his arm. He flips back a cover to reveal a school logo.
“Coming from school, Officer, as you can see.”
“What?” “Those ae your books?...You go to Science?”
“Yeah, afraid so, Officer, I go to Science. Some of us actually do you know.”
Exchange between Civil Rights and Black Power icon, Stokely Carmichael (Kwame Ture) and a police officer in 1956 while he was a 9th grader attending the prestigious Bronx High School of Science.
Do you think such an exchange would have taken place if Stokely was a white student attending the prestigious high school? The struggle continues.
“Yo boy; yeah, you. What you doing up here? Hey, kid. Didn’t you hear speaking to you?”
“Me, Officer? You weren’t speaking to me, were you?
“Yeah, I’m talking to you. What’re you doing up here anyway?”
The youth gestures to the books under his arm. He flips back a cover to reveal a school logo.
“Coming from school, Officer, as you can see.”
“What?” “Those ae your books?...You go to Science?”
“Yeah, afraid so, Officer, I go to Science. Some of us actually do you know.”
Exchange between Civil Rights and Black Power icon, Stokely Carmichael (Kwame Ture) and a police officer in 1956 while he was a 9th grader attending the prestigious Bronx High School of Science.
Do you think such an exchange would have taken place if Stokely was a white student attending the prestigious high school? The struggle continues.
4
That's almost 60 years ago! Wake up and find some fresh gist for the racism mill. And please look at the statistics while you are at it too.
2
In the words of William Faulkner, "the past is never dead, it's not even past."
It pretty clear who needs to wake up.
It pretty clear who needs to wake up.
9
The documentary is elegant, truthful and deeply moving. When I began reading comments , though, I could hardly believe them. I must have still been in denial about the prevalence of racism, the selfishness, lack of empathy, smugness...
9
Growing up in a predominantly white but increasingly black/hispanic neighborhood in Chicago in the 80s, my first encounter with police as a teenager was when a group of my friends were walking through the park to the beach one summer evening. Two white officers stopped us, and addressed the two black male teens in the group with "Where are you going?" One of the white girls said we were going to the beach. The officers looked the two black teens up and down, then told them to empty their pockets. Another time walking with these same kids, one of the black teens was stopped by police and frisked. Other times, going to that same park and beach with groups of only white kids, the police looked in our direction and never said a word. I've heard the same things over the years from black friends - they're followed by security guards in stores, their kids are stopped and questioned by police about where they're going and what they're doing. That's racism - there's no other explanation for it.
And for those of you who say it's because it's more likely that black men commit crimes, how about this - every mass killer in the U.S. has been a white man. Should the police start treating all 20-30something white men as if they're about to shoot up a movie theater or school?
And for those of you who say it's because it's more likely that black men commit crimes, how about this - every mass killer in the U.S. has been a white man. Should the police start treating all 20-30something white men as if they're about to shoot up a movie theater or school?
10
While I'm aware and completely in tune with the history of racism and what it means to be a young black man....in fairness, would it be okay, (based on more than political and social agendas), to advise my son with factual Federal statistics, that if he chooses to become a Police Officer, that his life may far greater be endangered by black men than by men of other races? It's factual, not conditioned ideas. So, where are we now?
1
Instead of that question, maybe ask yourself why, on an article about the challenges black men face with state perpetuated racism, that you feel the need to comment about some hypothetical scenario that makes black men look bad?
4
Because you are saying the same thing about the cops! And the statistics are there to back up what MCS says.
1
After watching this video, I thought "I wonder if my white, middle-class, suburban son knows what to do if pulled over." When I asked, his response was, "Yeah, they taught us all of that in driver's ed." And it really was "all of that": be respectful, hands on the wheel, don't move unless instructed, tell the officer where your papers are before you reach for them, etc. So this "conversation" is by no means unique to black parents.
I do not doubt for a moment that this conversation has added urgency for black Americans. That urgency is due in part to poorly trained and disciplined police who do not accord innocent-until-proven-gulty blacks the respect they are due. It is also due to the fact that the police have statistically valid reasons to be suspicious and wary of young black men, particularly in our inner cities.
Please, folks, we need to honestly admit to and confront both problems. Police misbehavior and young black male misbehavior.
I do not doubt for a moment that this conversation has added urgency for black Americans. That urgency is due in part to poorly trained and disciplined police who do not accord innocent-until-proven-gulty blacks the respect they are due. It is also due to the fact that the police have statistically valid reasons to be suspicious and wary of young black men, particularly in our inner cities.
Please, folks, we need to honestly admit to and confront both problems. Police misbehavior and young black male misbehavior.
8
Mike,
The fact that you had to "wonder if [your] white, middle-class, suburban son knows what to do if pulled over," proves that this conversation was not a priority to you. Which is understandable.
But to claim parity between your son being taught police protocol by a third party, and without your knowledge, and that of the African American parent-- who can ill-afford to delegate such a potentially life-altering lesson to a Driver's Ed teacher-- is rather illogical.
The fact that you had to "wonder if [your] white, middle-class, suburban son knows what to do if pulled over," proves that this conversation was not a priority to you. Which is understandable.
But to claim parity between your son being taught police protocol by a third party, and without your knowledge, and that of the African American parent-- who can ill-afford to delegate such a potentially life-altering lesson to a Driver's Ed teacher-- is rather illogical.
1
As an African-American mid-septuagenarian who was born and reared in the South, I take great comfort in the fact that I am too old and too frail looking to be stopped by police. What a relief. It has been a long time coming. One wonders why police would stop and question a 9-year old boy barely 4 feet tall. I committed the cardinal sin of responding to the police officer by saying yes. After I corrected myself and said, “yes sir”, I was allowed to proceed. Not too much has changed over 66 years.
20
The advice that should be given to a black son about encounters with the police, whether the cops are white or black:
1. Do what they tell you to do.
2. Keep your hands where they can see them at all times. Don't turn your back on them or back away from them. Don't make sudden moves. Do what they tell you to do.
3. Stay as calm as you can. Answer their questions. Answer their questions. Otherwise, don't say anything. Don't ask what you did wrong. Don't argue. Don't roll your eyes. Don't smart off. Do what they tell you to do.
4. Do what they tell you to do.
You can be smart, survive the encounter, eventually go on about your business, and maybe sue them, or you can be proud, resistant, and dead or seriously injured. Your choice. There are no two ways about it.
1. Do what they tell you to do.
2. Keep your hands where they can see them at all times. Don't turn your back on them or back away from them. Don't make sudden moves. Do what they tell you to do.
3. Stay as calm as you can. Answer their questions. Answer their questions. Otherwise, don't say anything. Don't ask what you did wrong. Don't argue. Don't roll your eyes. Don't smart off. Do what they tell you to do.
4. Do what they tell you to do.
You can be smart, survive the encounter, eventually go on about your business, and maybe sue them, or you can be proud, resistant, and dead or seriously injured. Your choice. There are no two ways about it.
16
This is a lesson that should be given to all children, not a matter of race but just good parenting from every individual family. It is not just a 'black son' but every child in this country. including girls.
As whites kill whites, blacks kill other blacks- eight times the rate that whites kill according to the DOJ and the Bureau of Justice Statistics, so the conversation should be about avoiding dangerous affiliations and situations to being with. Police also wouldn't have the need to profile if actual crime by actual criminals wasn't taking place more predominately in certain areas.
4
To opine that the police will target certain people for no apparent reason is its own form of bias. Moreover, it removes individual responsibility from the equation. As for the police, their work is more art than science and, while they are trained to look for behaviors that are indicative of criminality, these capabilities are subjectively dependent upon the quality of that training and the years of experience for each officer. Doubtful that the author included that reality into her conversation. Sadly, she offers no compelling argument other than the self-serving perpetuation of stereotypes. And, this leaves us with a salient question: Are we are so politically correct that it does not matter?
3
The number of dismissive, defensive, obtuse, and even blatantly racist comments is really depressing. It boggles the mind how many non-black people simply refuse to listen to the experience of their fellow citizens. It seems that it's virtually impossible for white people to imagine what it's like to be treated as a criminal when you aren't one, just because of the color of your skin.
13
Ever been held up? At gunpoint?
Repeatedly?
Repeatedly?
It is a tragedy when a policeman shoots an unarmed black youth. What generally occurs thereafter is community outrage. I wonder why there is no equivalent community/national outrage when a young black man kills another young black man.
8
There is plenty of outrage. Here is Chicago there are protest marches, gun round ups, etc.
3
How will parents tell their non-Black children that they may be targets of violent Black gang activity, subject to thuggery, violent reverse racism, mob attacks because of the color of their skin, attacks because they are too educated, or if they are Black that they act too White or that they may be killed for their IPhone or their sneakers?
12
I agree that the optimal situation would be for there to be one standard to be applied by not only the police but everyone who deals with the public. Optimal is not reality in the US nor any country in the world. As a long haired teenager [at a length that would not raise an eyebrow today] in Houston, Texas I was aware that travel through certain municipalities would involve heightened scrutiny considering the condition of my car [registration, inspection, noise] and the speed I was travelling. I never considered if the additional attention was fair, it was a condition of the trip like highway construction or rain and just as easily overcome. I've spent time in third countries whose police of the same color as those they served would discriminate on the basis of tribe, occupation or football team affinity. Its not fair there either.
I'm not suggesting that we be satisfied with considerable progress that has been made in the US in the last 50 years. I do suggest that those whose happiness depends on some egalitarian utopia will needlessly suffer eternal anguish. Perhaps some foreign travel to third world countries would provide some needed perspective. In these countries there are few that you meet that cannot speak of horrific injustices imposed on them or someone they know. I keep my trials of crossing bedroom communities to myself.
I'm not suggesting that we be satisfied with considerable progress that has been made in the US in the last 50 years. I do suggest that those whose happiness depends on some egalitarian utopia will needlessly suffer eternal anguish. Perhaps some foreign travel to third world countries would provide some needed perspective. In these countries there are few that you meet that cannot speak of horrific injustices imposed on them or someone they know. I keep my trials of crossing bedroom communities to myself.
4
How awful to have to include racism as an explanation for potential mistreatment. When I warned each of my children about proper conduct when stopped by the police (they were). I didn't tell them that in my opinion there are more police who have a bully gene than the average population, and no one can predict where that will lead. It is, however, what I believe.
3
I am a little tired of all the talk about "the conversation." I'm a 72 year old white guy and my parents chose my older brother (who was a cop at the time) to give me the basics of how to act when approached by a police officer. Keep hands in sight, no sudden movements, respectful tone of voice and don't resist. Most parents, no matter their heritage need to teach children about how to act at all times, not just when confronted by police.. It isn't a black thing.
6
I would tell your boy to be polite, not make sudden moves and never attack or swear a police officer. It's common sense.
6
Pretty much every parent feels the need to have the "The world is not fair" talk with their children. However, most children have limited higher-order cognitive skills (analysis, evaluation and synthesis), so you can talk to your children about a lot of things until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't mean he or she has the cognition to know how to act accordingly. I was a white, middle-class straight A student with educated white-collar parents, but what helped me reach maturity safely more than anything was...luck.
6
While you are talking to your son, as him to spend a few weeks reading the police blotter of the paper and have him watch the same segment of the nightly news.
He will see a parade of random violence done by young black men, often against innocents. Ask him not to join their ranks.
He will see a parade of random violence done by young black men, often against innocents. Ask him not to join their ranks.
6
There are some children that catch it everywhere, from everyone: peers, parents and police. It is hard to live with the constant stress, all the while trying to be a student. And parents, single, married and other worry. I think about the school shootings, usually by youth. This video is just one example of one conversation that parents are forced to have. I would think this would reach most parents whose children were living in America today.
This just breaks my heart. For me, as a white woman with white children, the definition of white privilege is that, when I see a police officer, I reflexively feel safer. I tell my children without reservation that when you are in trouble and I'm not there, look for that uniform. That is our reality. I cannot imagine being the parent of an African American child, particularly a boy, and not being able to tell him that society will watch out for him and care for him when I am not there. Until that is true for all children, for all people, we cannot call ourselves a civil society. Not by any definition.
12
Funny, because I had these EXACT same conversations about how to handle yourself and show respect to police to my very white son. I'm not here to say that there is not a bias due to racial make-up in high crime areas however, the recent issues related to the totally discredited "Hands up, Don't shoot" agenda does nothing but stir addition race based distrust.
We had a local white young man, returned veteran from Iraq, WHO WAS UNARMED AND IN HIS OWN HOUSE get shot and killed after HIS PARENTS called the local police. Did you hear about that on the national news? Didn't think so because it does not fit the agenda. 90% of this could be solved by respecting authorities. Not running from and not assaulting the police would go a long way.
We had a local white young man, returned veteran from Iraq, WHO WAS UNARMED AND IN HIS OWN HOUSE get shot and killed after HIS PARENTS called the local police. Did you hear about that on the national news? Didn't think so because it does not fit the agenda. 90% of this could be solved by respecting authorities. Not running from and not assaulting the police would go a long way.
5
I've had this conversation with my two sons and I'm glad I did. When I did they told me things were different and I didn't have to worry. We live in one of the safest upper class neighborhoods in the US. Still, it doesn't matter AND I can't control where they go or could go. Interestingly, while my daughter was home from school recently, I was pulled over for turning right after stopping at a red light on a corner under construction which has been a turn on red corner for years. There was no sign saying "No Turn on Red". When the officer approached my car, he also said I'd been speeding but another car that was going the same speed was not stopped. Then they asked me several other questions including if I'd been drinking. All I'd done is to go to the airport late with my wife to pick up my daughter. I drive a pretty nice car and am sure that attracted their attention. I have no outstanding tickets and my car is insured and properly registered. For that I spent 40 minutes being questioned and stopped in my own town. So if I can be stopped like this just for going to the airport to pick up my daughter, we still need to have "the conversation" no matter what all the naysayers to this story say.
9
All parents, even black parents, need to show their children the videos of the brutality of children toward other children and explain to them that kids should not be pummeling other kids --- black kids are not exempted from the rules of decency. I think black leaders need to focus on the problems in their community which have speared to a point that it is spreading justifiable fear among all people especially Koreans. We remember how David Dinkins encouraged black people to abuse Korean business owners. We remember how Al Sharpton incited the riots in Harlem that led to the death of a store owner. We remember the deaths of the police officers that resulted from the encouragement of De Blasio to exact retribution against the police. We remember.
4
Are there problems of crime, violence and ignorance in certain communities of color? Of course. Is a black person more predisposed to the above? Of course not. As long a people blithely believe that poor people in general and blacks specifically have no outside impediment to what we call "success," then there will be no reason to address the true cause of poverty, and poverty and lack of opportunity is the root cause of many of the ills of poor.
Many of the comments here have been racist and I am very confident that they were not meant to be, which to me show the lack of understanding and the apathy to this situation.
I only ask that someone explain to me the reason that blacks (percentage wise) are still in such an undesirable economic situation.
Many of the comments here have been racist and I am very confident that they were not meant to be, which to me show the lack of understanding and the apathy to this situation.
I only ask that someone explain to me the reason that blacks (percentage wise) are still in such an undesirable economic situation.
1
I am a middle aged bi-racial man. In my youth, I found the prevalence of racist views in America disturbing. Now I accept it. Why? Well, it's very liberating to know that my own prejudice is socially acceptable, and I act on it without guilt nor mercy whenever a bigoted person crosses my path.
Having worked for the Caifornia Department of Corrections/Juvenile Dision for 23 years as a counselor/parole agent I was amazed at the number of black wards who used racial slurs like "cracker, Jew and kike" when speaking to me. Keep in mind they had never met me much less spoke to me, they freely threw out these slurs every day. I busted my butt to help them. No, I had to be something they were taught at home or neighborhood because I did not demonstrate it. EVER
When is the black community going to stop setting them up for failure before it ever happens?
Finally the author should go to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report. Begin in 2002 and go through. 2012 and you will see 465 white officers killed, 67 black. Then look at the offenders by race and in 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2011 you will see more black offenders for those years. Maybe the author should ask why so many white officers are killed by black offenders. Maybe instead of making excuses or affixing blame the author should ask what behaviors they demonstrate or model that these young men throw out slurs at total strangers trying to help them.
When is the black community going to stop setting them up for failure before it ever happens?
Finally the author should go to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report. Begin in 2002 and go through. 2012 and you will see 465 white officers killed, 67 black. Then look at the offenders by race and in 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2011 you will see more black offenders for those years. Maybe the author should ask why so many white officers are killed by black offenders. Maybe instead of making excuses or affixing blame the author should ask what behaviors they demonstrate or model that these young men throw out slurs at total strangers trying to help them.
8
Thank you. This was very moving. Although not quite the same, it reminds me of conversations my parents had with me and my brothers as Jews living in an Islamic country and as darker skinned, curly-haired immigrants to America. It included statements to the effect that we have to be better behaved, better students, more tidy and presentable, law abiding and more respectful to police and authority figures, because we would be perceived and treated less favorably.
4
Yes, everyone parent, no matter the race, has to have a talk with their children about dealing cops. But here is the difference many non-blacks fail to realize; black parents have to teach their sons how NOT to be BEATEN and/or KILLED by police, while non-black parents just have to teach their children how to avoid getting a ticket and/or being arrested. There is a BIG difference! When was the last time you read about a white teenager being killed by a cop because he looked "suspicious" or "fit the description"? I'll wait. And please spare me with the don't commit a crime or resist arrest comments, one too many black men have been beaten and/or killed by cops for no reason.
8
A conversation with my 5 year old white daughter, "Don't trust the Police, they're not your friends".
Sad but true. We live in a police state with a sanction "war on drugs," war on terror", and Patriot Act, that does not fit the materialistic consumption, don't ask don't tell, fall in line and don't question or for God's sake don't protest anything, and beyond all else do not try to exercise your Constitutional Rights because that's "suspicious activity".
My best advice to any young people faced with a Police question, demand to have your parents present at once or ask for a lawyer immediately. Shocking to say to a 5 year old but when the local cops in our home town got wind of an ingrate neighbor who reported "suspicious" behavior in our home, the Police went to my child's school to question her in the Principal's office.
Two years later, a legal retainer, and civil action against the Police and the School they're willing to offer an apology and promise not question or daughter again without our consent. The school is hiding behind their "first reporting" requirements.
Until we as Americans expect that Law Enforcement is here to keep everyone safe and apply justice equally to everyone regardless of what they look like, and most importantly are here to guarantee each individual's Constitutional Rights even if they disagree with the content of that exercise; we are truly living the oligarchy American Dream (Nightmare).
Sad but true. We live in a police state with a sanction "war on drugs," war on terror", and Patriot Act, that does not fit the materialistic consumption, don't ask don't tell, fall in line and don't question or for God's sake don't protest anything, and beyond all else do not try to exercise your Constitutional Rights because that's "suspicious activity".
My best advice to any young people faced with a Police question, demand to have your parents present at once or ask for a lawyer immediately. Shocking to say to a 5 year old but when the local cops in our home town got wind of an ingrate neighbor who reported "suspicious" behavior in our home, the Police went to my child's school to question her in the Principal's office.
Two years later, a legal retainer, and civil action against the Police and the School they're willing to offer an apology and promise not question or daughter again without our consent. The school is hiding behind their "first reporting" requirements.
Until we as Americans expect that Law Enforcement is here to keep everyone safe and apply justice equally to everyone regardless of what they look like, and most importantly are here to guarantee each individual's Constitutional Rights even if they disagree with the content of that exercise; we are truly living the oligarchy American Dream (Nightmare).
1
The editors of this paper no longer display my posts. I am a conservative and patriotic American from the West Coast. Fourth-generation Army veteran and a Catholic as well. Not part of the NYT's demographic, I guess.
They won't post this note either, the cowards.
They won't post this note either, the cowards.
8
Hours ago, our nation buried Deputy United States Marshal Josie Wells. Josie was named after the Confederate guerrilla protagonist of "The Outlaw Josey Wales." Josie rode horses, was raised in a law enforcement family, having a father retired from law enforcement, and a brother currently serving as a cop. Josie's wife, Channing, is expecting a baby boy, learning the gender just about the time of her husband's death in a shootout with a wanted black man. Josie did his job and did it well. He was eulogized by a man who said, " And he was a loving father to a child not yet born—a son who will be named Josie Wells Jr., in honor of a hero who gave his “last full measure of devotion” in the service of his country. " That speaker was the brother of a retired police officer. All of these men are black. The speaker is Eric Holder. Please spare us the race card.
2
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=7f4_1426548792
And black people should trust the police because why?
And black people should trust the police because why?
Its interesting that this "conversation" is being driven by the Michael Brown "hands up don't shoot" narrative that was completely phony.
4
As a white women, I watched this video and cried. And then I read the many comments from people who completely lack empathy for the very specific, human feelings and experience of these parents. These posts are littered with blame and red herring comments about youth who do break the law and "the police don't really do this."
The bottom line is that white parents of every socio-economic class, in all regions of the country are NOT universally obligated to have this conversation with their children, while these black parents and saying, with all humility and sadness, that they do. And you are angry with them for coming forward in 2015 to speak their truth publicly and feel that they are... what? whining?
Shame on you.
Stop spouting off for two minutes and walk a mile in another person's shoes.
The bottom line is that white parents of every socio-economic class, in all regions of the country are NOT universally obligated to have this conversation with their children, while these black parents and saying, with all humility and sadness, that they do. And you are angry with them for coming forward in 2015 to speak their truth publicly and feel that they are... what? whining?
Shame on you.
Stop spouting off for two minutes and walk a mile in another person's shoes.
89
Look at the overwhelming amount of comments here. I'm liberal but perpetuating the idea that blacks can't trust the police is part of the problem. If you can't even find like- minded people for this ostensibly liberal cause on the NYT, then you know the views expressed are radical.
Shame on you, stop trying to tear our society apart.
Shame on you, stop trying to tear our society apart.
Time to take the blinders off Dee.
Yes, thank you.
1
Why would a parent perpetuate this world view-- cops can't be trusted. I have a better idea. Every parent should explain to their children the appropriate way to behave when encountering authority figures. That would go a long way in alleviating misunderstandings.
40
I wish it was that simple. You assume that all black people are rude to police. That's not true. Even when I've been polite to officers I have been discriminated against.
4
I have a black cleaning woman. She rides the bus to my house. After I pay her (she always wants cash-only), I watch her put it in a plastic bag and pin it to her underwear. Why?
She said there are a lot of young blacks teens on the bus back to her neighborhood. And they regularly rough up older black women and steal their purses or their wallets. The bus driver always phones for the police. The driver wouldn't dare intervene - they would then go for him and the entire bus might well be at risk.
Even though she has 3 grown sons, she is terrified of black men when she walks from the bus to her apartment. Not white policemen, but black men. She is not being roughed up on the bus by whites, but by blacks.
So, if a nice, hardworking black woman is afraid of her fellow blacks, especially black males, why wouldn't a white police officer in the same neighborhood be as well? Is my cleaning woman a racist or is she operating from bitter experience. Might not the police be doing the same?
Black-on-black crime is epidemic in this country. Can it be any wonder that whites are afraid of people being so violent? I'm sure many readers have seen the viral video of the black girls attacking another black girl in a Brooklyn McDonalds, one even continuing to kick her when she was cowering on the floor. She had also hit her 64 yr old grandmother. The manager said this happens regularly. So when the police arrive, who are they going to be looking at? White teens?
She said there are a lot of young blacks teens on the bus back to her neighborhood. And they regularly rough up older black women and steal their purses or their wallets. The bus driver always phones for the police. The driver wouldn't dare intervene - they would then go for him and the entire bus might well be at risk.
Even though she has 3 grown sons, she is terrified of black men when she walks from the bus to her apartment. Not white policemen, but black men. She is not being roughed up on the bus by whites, but by blacks.
So, if a nice, hardworking black woman is afraid of her fellow blacks, especially black males, why wouldn't a white police officer in the same neighborhood be as well? Is my cleaning woman a racist or is she operating from bitter experience. Might not the police be doing the same?
Black-on-black crime is epidemic in this country. Can it be any wonder that whites are afraid of people being so violent? I'm sure many readers have seen the viral video of the black girls attacking another black girl in a Brooklyn McDonalds, one even continuing to kick her when she was cowering on the floor. She had also hit her 64 yr old grandmother. The manager said this happens regularly. So when the police arrive, who are they going to be looking at? White teens?
81
Very well said.
Black criminaliy is the only "conversation" needed.
Black criminaliy is the only "conversation" needed.
I am a fairly petite Indian woman, well spoken, educated, and aware of how a 1st class citizen is treated. Not here in Seattle though. I've been pulled over numerous times and when I've begged to differ with the office or questioned him politely, his power trip led him to write me a ticket. One of them even had my car towed from in front of my house as part of a scam the cop was running with the towing company. It cost me $100. Not any more. Since I got married no one pulls me over. The apparent cure? A tall white husband and beautiful children. That's what it took for me to be tolerated. Lucky me, with my human shield! Racism is alive and well here in 'liberal' Seattle.
38
The problem may not be racism but simply that you argue. Save the explanations and argument for traffic court. That's what my parents taught me. It's worked.
Liar
As a former police supervisor back in the 70s, one of the major problems I had was with my white patrolmen who would not stop a black driver even if they witnessed the black driver run a red light. Why, because the officers knew they were in for a major rash of hostile language and often hostile physical encounter. My cops often figured t wasn't worth the aggravation.
Folks, racism isn't the issue. Are some cops racist? Yes. Are some cops brutal? Yes.
But you also have to discover whether some perps bare racist and physically threatening to the police. In many, many cases they are.
Black parents should be teaching their kids what my white parents taught me: If you get pulled over, call the cop "officer" and "sir" (or "ma'am). The cop has the gun and the Taser and even the ticket book (at a minimum, he can cite you to appear in a court on the other side of the county if you mouth off too much.
On top of that, if he charges you with something that will require a court appearance, realize the judge will almost always believe the officer, not you.
And don't ever, EVER do what Michael Brown did: Attack the cop who told you to move out of the street and get on the sidewalk. Trying to take the officer's gun and then charging him in a rage had nothing to with race. The officer has every right to protect himself.
If you escalate the situation, shame on you, my child.
Folks, racism isn't the issue. Are some cops racist? Yes. Are some cops brutal? Yes.
But you also have to discover whether some perps bare racist and physically threatening to the police. In many, many cases they are.
Black parents should be teaching their kids what my white parents taught me: If you get pulled over, call the cop "officer" and "sir" (or "ma'am). The cop has the gun and the Taser and even the ticket book (at a minimum, he can cite you to appear in a court on the other side of the county if you mouth off too much.
On top of that, if he charges you with something that will require a court appearance, realize the judge will almost always believe the officer, not you.
And don't ever, EVER do what Michael Brown did: Attack the cop who told you to move out of the street and get on the sidewalk. Trying to take the officer's gun and then charging him in a rage had nothing to with race. The officer has every right to protect himself.
If you escalate the situation, shame on you, my child.
73
Thank you! ^THIS^!
My mother had this talk with me when I was growing up... a cute, harmless-looking, slight-of-build, white girl -- blue eyes, freckles, sweet disposition, the whole nine. "Keep your hands on the steering wheel, address the officer as 'officer' or 'sir/ma'am', hand them the documents when they ask for them, keep your eyes forward, and always be polite."
I have been pulled over on several occasions, and that has always been my policy. Never once has a cop threatened me or roughed me up. Why? Not because I'm white, or even because I'm female.
I don't get roughed up because:
1) I obey the law
2) I don't speak or behave in a way that alarms the cops
3) I do as they ask or demand.
It's really very simple. I'd love to see statistics on just how much police brutality people of any color get subjected to when they're abiding by those three rules.
My mother had this talk with me when I was growing up... a cute, harmless-looking, slight-of-build, white girl -- blue eyes, freckles, sweet disposition, the whole nine. "Keep your hands on the steering wheel, address the officer as 'officer' or 'sir/ma'am', hand them the documents when they ask for them, keep your eyes forward, and always be polite."
I have been pulled over on several occasions, and that has always been my policy. Never once has a cop threatened me or roughed me up. Why? Not because I'm white, or even because I'm female.
I don't get roughed up because:
1) I obey the law
2) I don't speak or behave in a way that alarms the cops
3) I do as they ask or demand.
It's really very simple. I'd love to see statistics on just how much police brutality people of any color get subjected to when they're abiding by those three rules.
1
Your anecdote about white police in the 70s not pulling over black people is heartwarming. Unfortunately the plural of anecdote is not data and your story has no relation to actual facts of how often blacks are pulled over compared to whites.
4
You cant be serious. You think the problem is black citizens are notorious for being hostile to police when they are pulled over in their vehicles? Your comment defies all logic, and It is clear to me that this perception on your part and or the officers that your supervised only reinforces what no rational person would dispute, and that is that many police officers unreasonably fear or target black men. The justice department that determined that the Michael Brown incident was a justifiable police action also ruled that the Fergurson police department routinely mistreated its black citizens. Please don't use his death to make to such an ill considered point.
3
I tell my Jewish son not to wear his yarmulke when walking through a black neighborhood in NYC for fear he will be attacked for no other reason than he is Jewish. I also tell him not to do the things that will draw the police's attention (like robbing a store - hands up don't shoot), and resist arrest - I can't breath). I know prejudice and profiling exist, but to tell your children they can't go to any police and can't trust them like a few of these couples said is what causes many of these bad interactions.
81
Well said, FPK.
2
All children, black, white, red, yellow - need to be told the same thing... Respect authority, your community and the cops; Obey the law and avoid bad behaviours ; and be an excellent, contributing citizen. Every teen who does that will have no worries with the police. That's the conversation ALL parents need to have with their children. Instead of conversations that fuel paranoia and fear.
It is abominable that:
1. Black men cannot walk unaccosted in a white upper class neighborhood.
2. Jewish men cannot walk undisturbed in a poor beighborhood.
3. Women cannot walk down a street in New York without being the subject of catcalls.
1. Black men cannot walk unaccosted in a white upper class neighborhood.
2. Jewish men cannot walk undisturbed in a poor beighborhood.
3. Women cannot walk down a street in New York without being the subject of catcalls.
1
The callousness and bigotry on display in these comments is disgusting and deeply disturbing.
42
I think what you mean to say is the realities and personal experiences of people that don't buy in to your racist view of America is deeply disturbing. Maybe listen to what they're actually saying, like blacks keep telling "white allies" to do. You might learn something.
Hopefully they also have conversations with their young black men about the number 1 killer of young black men.....
28
What a brilliant video. So human. So real. How can we get more of this and less of the neurotic alpha-male Rap stuff? I don't know, maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that Rap was such a good strategy. It made a lot of people wealthy but I think that there may be a direct causal-line between "Gangsta Rap" and "Stand Your Ground Laws." And in the future in a post-Obama world where same-sex marriage is common and kids grow up with a scientific understanding of homophobia, I think that it is very possible that a judgmental new generation, as they all are, will look back at the misogynistic and homophobic bigotry of late 2Oth century Rap culture the same way we look at the racist bigotry of Black-Face culture of the thirties. And how will they look back at the violence of Rap? It seems to me that Rap psychology was a very adolescent strategy which played right into White racist stereotypes. No wonder White people who have never known any Black people think that all young Black males are thugs. How can this be undone? How can we transform the way young Black males are perceived? Is there nothing that can be done short of getting rid of racism. Which is beginning to feel hopeless given some of the comments posted here in response to this intelligent, compassionate and human video. Hopefully in his post-Presidential career President Obama may be able to help us. Hopefully.
10
Well heck, Barry has done absolutely NOTHING in his Presidential career. He might just grow into his position of responsibility at some stage.
Thank you for this beautiful, touching documentary. All of the parents, in their own ways, expressed so much love and worry, and anger. I am looking forward to your next doc.
7
FBI data shows that “Nearly two times a week in the United States, a white police officer killed a black person during a seven-year period ending in 2012. On average, there were 96 such incidents among at least 400 police killings each year that were reported to the FBI by local police. This means that about 24 percent of police homicide victims are black and 76 percent are not black. (This is why white parents teach their children how to act when interacting with police.) Blacks make up 13 percent of the population but 24 percent of police homicide victim; however, the disparity is much smaller than one would expect, given that black commit a disproportionate percent of violent crimes. According to FBI Uniform Crime Report Data Table 43: Arrests), blacks made up 38.7 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including 52.3 percent of those arrested for murder or manslaughter and 56.4 percent of those arrested for robbery. Another pertinent statistic is that the FBI Uniform Crime Report (Table 44 Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed) shows that blacks murdered at least 43 percent of the 565 police officers who were murdered in the line of duty from 2004 through 2013. (The race of the offender is unknown in 17 of the murders.) This seems to indicate that blacks ere more likely to target police officers.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-dat...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-dat...
19
Also note, at 400 or so deaths by police shooting per year, in our population of about 340 million, this amounts to one of the smallest causes of death there is. There are, for example, 10,000 gun homicides total, and an additional 20,000 gun suicides. And there's at least another 20,000 non-gun suicides. People have more to fear from themselves, than police, statistically speaking.
Thank you for creating this important piece.
9
No amount of outrage is going to stop this. Hard work in the downtrodden communities, creating opportunities for poor black men, expressing unconditional love, showing them face to face that you personally care about them as individuals, that will lead to change. Check out Homeboy Industries for the best example of how it's done. As long as the cops' perception is that black men pose the greatest danger to them, the best anyone is going to get is politically correct lip service.
2
"As long as the cops' perception is that black men pose the greatest danger to them, the best anyone is going to get is politically correct lip service." As long as the REALITY is such that people (including cops) have to worry about the danger posed by black men then that perception will be there.
San Francisco has 8% of public school students being black while 71% of public school students arrested are black. If only we could find a school someone in the world where Asian girls are more violent and stupid than black males we could copy it. Atlanta from before the arrests of 137 teachers doesn't count.
17
Regardless of your skin tone you should never voluntarily talk to police. I like the father in the video who admonished his son never to talk to police "until I get there." It is a sad state of affairs that we live in a society where the police are not your friend, not reliable and must be viewed as the enemy.
18
That would be a sad state of affairs, if it were true. It's not though. Those who choose to see the police as their enemy are criminals with almost no exceptions.
That part stuck out for me too, because I had a conversation years ago with a white (Italian-American) ex-cop who said exactly the same thing -- never, ever talk to the police without a lawyer present. It's good advice, generally applicable to everyone, not just black men.
First, this article is not about crime prevention. This article is about law abiding, tax paying citizens who have to tell their sons that they must assume that a cop is more likely to use deadly force dealing with you than with someone else based solely on skin color.
These parents are not delusional, they look at the "record" and history and they do not want their children to be more dead examples of very dubious police tactics.
The fact that some of you do not have to have this conversation does not negate the necessity of it for others.
These parents are not delusional, they look at the "record" and history and they do not want their children to be more dead examples of very dubious police tactics.
The fact that some of you do not have to have this conversation does not negate the necessity of it for others.
88
The police know who are and who are not law abiding, tax paying citizens and who are not. If the suspect is not African American, then they leave the law abiding, tax payers alone and worry about the law breaking or tax evaders or African American young males and if they make any suspicious moves, they shoot to kill. This applies to police regardless of their ethnic background today. There is some kind of bias at work but it seems unlikely to be the kind of racism which is being presumed. I think that the problem is that police like everyone tend to look for predictability based upon pattern recognition instead of upon careful reasoned examination and are stereotyping people according to racial characteristics that reflects their experiences. Some police have been racist killers but most are not and it's a lot more than race that motivates police to shoot people, they have to believe that shooting a person was their only alternative because they are normal human beings with consciences and everything.
1
I agree with you, for the most part, but I think that you would agree that dramatic change in these systems will benefit society as a whole. We cannot live up to our potential as a nation as long as these issues pervade our communities of color.
Everyone parent with common sense has this conversation.
So sick of the comments re I am white and I have had this conversation with my son. It is about respect for duty, blah, blah, blah.
You still don't GET IT! It is about being looked upon as a criminal when you are not one. It is about not being given the benefit of the doubt.
Would your white teenager be stopped by the cops on a Sunday afternoon while strolling to play basketball in a middleclass neighborhood and questioned as to what he is doing in the neighborhood? NO.
Yes it is about respect. Respect by law enforcement for a citizen REGARDLESS of color.
You just don't get it.
You still don't GET IT! It is about being looked upon as a criminal when you are not one. It is about not being given the benefit of the doubt.
Would your white teenager be stopped by the cops on a Sunday afternoon while strolling to play basketball in a middleclass neighborhood and questioned as to what he is doing in the neighborhood? NO.
Yes it is about respect. Respect by law enforcement for a citizen REGARDLESS of color.
You just don't get it.
73
Most people killed by police have criminal records or are committing crimes when shot by police. It is true there are exceptions, but the exceptions are rare.
22
"You just don't get it"
There is obvious racism which is a big problem. A much bigger problem is the lawlessness and high rates of crime committed by black citizens. The more important conversation that needs to occur is why is the rate of crime so high and how to reduce it. Asians are not beloved by many white Americans, but they are not shot very often by the police because they stay out of trouble and don't put themselves in positions where they might be viewed as committing crimes.
Michael Brown is a perfect example of the lawlessness that is endemic in black communities. He stole something at a convenience store, he didn't obey a police officer request to get out of the middle of the street and he attempted to grab a police officer's gun.
JD
There is obvious racism which is a big problem. A much bigger problem is the lawlessness and high rates of crime committed by black citizens. The more important conversation that needs to occur is why is the rate of crime so high and how to reduce it. Asians are not beloved by many white Americans, but they are not shot very often by the police because they stay out of trouble and don't put themselves in positions where they might be viewed as committing crimes.
Michael Brown is a perfect example of the lawlessness that is endemic in black communities. He stole something at a convenience store, he didn't obey a police officer request to get out of the middle of the street and he attempted to grab a police officer's gun.
JD
3
You still do not get it. It is about being innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. It is about the irrefutable fact that our drug laws give a lighter sentence to people who use heroin (mostly white people) than for people who use crack cocaine (mostly black people).
The majority of domestic violence is committed by white men. Should we automatically assume all white men are wife beaters and not give those accused their day in court?
Gee whatever happened to the Constitution and civil liberties? Whatever happened to JUSTICE?
Here is the thing. The black criminals are usually caught and put in jail. The white criminal police officers go scot free.
Go figure.
It is also about ACCOUNTABILITY.
The majority of domestic violence is committed by white men. Should we automatically assume all white men are wife beaters and not give those accused their day in court?
Gee whatever happened to the Constitution and civil liberties? Whatever happened to JUSTICE?
Here is the thing. The black criminals are usually caught and put in jail. The white criminal police officers go scot free.
Go figure.
It is also about ACCOUNTABILITY.
16
Thank you.
6
I am rendered speechless by the assumption of so many commenters that it is entirely normal to be killed by a police officer if you don't treat him with "respect". Do you understand how outlandish this sounds to anybody outside these United States of NRA? Forget racism - since when has not genuflecting before an authority figure become a capital crime? And this is coming from the country that lectures the rest of the world on freedom and human rights!
69
Actually, a person who fails to treat a police officer with respect or who actually physically assaults a police officer runs virtually zero chance of being killed by a police officer. Police make about 12 million arrests each year. About 400 of the arrests result in police inflicted fatalities. So, about 0.002 of each year’s arrest result in police-inflicted fatalities. In 2013, the FBI collected assault data from 11,468 law enforcement agencies that employed 533,895 officers. These law enforcement agencies reported that 27 law enforcement officers were murdered and 49,851 officers were assaulted while performing their duties in 2013. So, about 0.8 percent of assaults on police officers result in fatalities.
16
I felt the same way when I read the comments. A lot of here people have the attitude that the police have the right to harass anyone and the population just has to accept it. Even people who live in actual police states might have to accept this type of treatment but at least they know that it isn’t right and would change it if they could.
3
Amen!
The problem that goes unrecognized?
There has been a bifurcation of American blacks: There is the underclass and the other class. The other is middle and a sliver of upper.
The police deal with the turbulence of the underclass their entire career. And because they do not have time to conduct interviews aand find out WHO you are, they become reactive to WHAT you are.
Sad to say, that many cops develop a "seen one seen them all" mentality. And the other classes pay for the malfeasance of the underclass's reprobates.
That said there are racists on the force, and they become like pedophiles in a scout-troop. Gleefully exploitative. Occasionally homicidal knowing they'll get off the hook.
There has been a bifurcation of American blacks: There is the underclass and the other class. The other is middle and a sliver of upper.
The police deal with the turbulence of the underclass their entire career. And because they do not have time to conduct interviews aand find out WHO you are, they become reactive to WHAT you are.
Sad to say, that many cops develop a "seen one seen them all" mentality. And the other classes pay for the malfeasance of the underclass's reprobates.
That said there are racists on the force, and they become like pedophiles in a scout-troop. Gleefully exploitative. Occasionally homicidal knowing they'll get off the hook.
16
This writer's state that "To keep him safe, they may have to tell the child they love that he risks being targeted by the police, simply because of the color of his skin." But it would appear that it is not just because of the color of his skin but also his gender. This doesn't seem to be an issue for black women. Why only black men. And why is the gender profiling of law enforcement never talked about?
12
by far the largest number of documented stops by police based on profiling is of drivers of red Porsches. True!
10
Gender profiling is never talked about because everyone, even men, recognize the truth - that men, not women, commit 90% or more of all human violence in the world, whether it's street crime or war. It's a genetic predisposition. So why waste your time and energy focusing on women, when you know with certainty that 50% of the population is responsible for 90% of violent crimes, and you can easily identify them just by the way they look? It's just logic and common sense. And young men have a greater propensity for violence than old men. These are facts confirmed by every study ever done on the matter. That's why authorities, like parents, educators, and law enforcement, teach children who become lost or separated to look for an old lady, of whatever color, to ask for help, and not a young man. I'm not saying that no young man would help a lost child, or that every young man would victimize a child. I'm just saying, statistically, you're much more safe with an old lady than with a young man. (Full disclosure - I'm a former young, now old, man.)
Does the conversation ever include a caution to not engage in behavior that attracts the attention of the police? This would be helpful. I agree that many blacks experience double standards when it comes to the police. If you know this, then conduct yourself accordingly.
26
So "you" as a black person, must live your life differently than other people because your behavior might attract the attention of the police? You "know" that many blacks experience double standards when it comes to the police, so they should conduct themselves accordingly. How is that exactly, when the same conduct from a non "minority" wouldn't draw a second glance from the police, and is often considered "normal" behavior (i.e.. boys will be boys, etc.)
16
Your comment, and I'll bet there are hundreds more like this, carry the assumption that the problem is one of the actions of black youth and not one of the police officer's bias. People are generally not aware of their own bias. But that is part of the problem.
Number one, don't ever leave your house. Anything else seems to fair game for getting stopped, frisked or pulled over.
1
At this point in America, every parent should have this conversation with their child or their significant other if that person is not American. The truth in America is that law enforcement is operating on a shoot first ask questions later basis. They have become militarized. They buy surplus military equipment even when doing so contributes nothing to the department's law enforcement capabilities. Since 9/11/2001 they have taken refuge behind plexiglass windows, in their patrol cars, abused their positions, and alienated the citizens they are supposed to protect.
As a child in the 60s and 70s I was treated with more courtesy by police officers then than I am now as an adult. I worry that my brother, who has Asperger's, could be misunderstood by them and shot or jailed because some other person complains about him when all he's doing is walking down the street or if someone hurts him and responds back. That's the state law enforcement is at now: it doesn't protect us. Quite honestly, I hate dealing with the police no matter what the problem is because I feel that they are out to get us.
As a child in the 60s and 70s I was treated with more courtesy by police officers then than I am now as an adult. I worry that my brother, who has Asperger's, could be misunderstood by them and shot or jailed because some other person complains about him when all he's doing is walking down the street or if someone hurts him and responds back. That's the state law enforcement is at now: it doesn't protect us. Quite honestly, I hate dealing with the police no matter what the problem is because I feel that they are out to get us.
21
If this is such a racist society, and the police are predisposed to attack black males with or without cause, I'm wondering why the two incidents that have the crowds in the streets (Michael Brown and Eric Gardner) both involve black men who were in fact lawbreakers. And both of whom attacked the police officers in question.
These two make singularly poor poster children for racial injustice. If bad attitudes and bad behavior by the police is as common as everyone is claiming, you would think that the activists on this issue would find it easy to identify a case which was not so problematic: an "unarmed black teen" (as the Times continues to style Michael Brown) who was not fresh from robbing and brutalizing an Asian store clerk half his size, someone who did not attack the arresting officer. Such a case would be much more useful, don't you think? Why is it so hard to find one with "clean" facts?
These two make singularly poor poster children for racial injustice. If bad attitudes and bad behavior by the police is as common as everyone is claiming, you would think that the activists on this issue would find it easy to identify a case which was not so problematic: an "unarmed black teen" (as the Times continues to style Michael Brown) who was not fresh from robbing and brutalizing an Asian store clerk half his size, someone who did not attack the arresting officer. Such a case would be much more useful, don't you think? Why is it so hard to find one with "clean" facts?
44
Of course there will no response to Susan's searing observation. And while we're on the topic of frank discussions with children, I wonder what should we tell white kids about which neighborhoods to avoid due to inordinate crime rate, which males are many times more likely to be felons or violent-- do we really want to go down this road?
5
you completely missed the point of the video...
3
We have a video of the incident with Eric Gardner. He did not attack as you clearly have been shown to lie about what we see with our own eyes.
Here we are America, a racist in our midst, trying to lie to us and tell us what we see with our own eyes is not the truth.
Here we are America, a racist in our midst, trying to lie to us and tell us what we see with our own eyes is not the truth.
5
In the right-wing white world, racism is over and all of this is nonsense. Oh, except for the racism that whites endure now.
15
What are u talking about?
Here's another message to offer young black men: "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie, perpetrated by self-interested political agitators. To stay safe, cooperate fully with the police, and that's all there is to it.
21
A black business associate of mine was pulled over so many times by white highway patrol officers that he eventually gave up the high end sports car he
was leasing. Apparently the thought that a black man could legitimately be driving a car that spoke of wealth said to the officers, "He stole it or he's dealing drugs". Respect for authority starts when authority grants that respect in return.
was leasing. Apparently the thought that a black man could legitimately be driving a car that spoke of wealth said to the officers, "He stole it or he's dealing drugs". Respect for authority starts when authority grants that respect in return.
31
If the "Black Lives Matter" signs are not just an empty slogan, why is there no national as well as local black outrage and mass protests at premeditated—not unexpected or accidental—killings of blacks by blacks?
Take a good look at Jason L. Riley (WSJ editorial_member) article "Race, Politics and the Zimmerman Trial."
He states, "The homicide rate claiming black victims today is seven times that of whites…Some 92% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks"
In 1993, Jesse Jackson told organizers in Chicago: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
If he, a black man, was afraid of blacks what can we expect of a white person? What can you exect from the police whose lives are in danger?
C.L. Bryant, former head of NAACP said that in the Trayvon Marvin case the national attention from black leaders, Sharpton and Jackson was not welcome.
"His family should be outraged…they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,…like buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy."
The problem with African-Americans is they had or have so called leaders and role models who are self-aggrandizing, corrupt, adulterers, immoral, or anti-Semitic; leaders like Louis Farrakhnan, Al Sharpton, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Charles Rangel, Jesse Jackson, .
Where are black leaders like Martin Luther King?
Take a good look at Jason L. Riley (WSJ editorial_member) article "Race, Politics and the Zimmerman Trial."
He states, "The homicide rate claiming black victims today is seven times that of whites…Some 92% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks"
In 1993, Jesse Jackson told organizers in Chicago: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
If he, a black man, was afraid of blacks what can we expect of a white person? What can you exect from the police whose lives are in danger?
C.L. Bryant, former head of NAACP said that in the Trayvon Marvin case the national attention from black leaders, Sharpton and Jackson was not welcome.
"His family should be outraged…they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,…like buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy."
The problem with African-Americans is they had or have so called leaders and role models who are self-aggrandizing, corrupt, adulterers, immoral, or anti-Semitic; leaders like Louis Farrakhnan, Al Sharpton, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Charles Rangel, Jesse Jackson, .
Where are black leaders like Martin Luther King?
25
Yes 90 percent plus of blacks kill other blacks. But did you know a preponderance of whites kill other whites? We tend to commit crimes against our own race because they are who we live with... is that so hard to understand?
8
MLK? He was shot dead by a racist white man.
You want to talk about Black leaders?
How about Barack Obama? Started from modest beginnings, and pulled up his own bootstraps if anyone ever did. No big money in his family. Ended up in some of the most prodigious universities in the world. Became Editor of the Harvard Law Review. U.S. Senate. Became President of the United States TWICE with electoral margins matched only by a handful of US presidents. He repaired the US economy that was in free fall. Has added jobs like no other Repub president. Repaired our flailing foreign policy. Reformed our broken healthcare system. Will be considered one of the most consequential presidents in our history.
And one of the most disrespected presidents in the entire history of the United States. This is without question. How is he supposed to fix that? Do what they tell him to do? Behave better? Listen to those in authority? Play nice with those who question his authority?
No. Your prescription for the rest of society falls flat on it's face for the man that holds the highest office in our country. No, your prescription means nothing. There is nothing that would please your types.
If the President of the United States cannot get the kind of respect he deserves what can the rest of the Black population expect from people like you?
You want to talk about Black leaders?
How about Barack Obama? Started from modest beginnings, and pulled up his own bootstraps if anyone ever did. No big money in his family. Ended up in some of the most prodigious universities in the world. Became Editor of the Harvard Law Review. U.S. Senate. Became President of the United States TWICE with electoral margins matched only by a handful of US presidents. He repaired the US economy that was in free fall. Has added jobs like no other Repub president. Repaired our flailing foreign policy. Reformed our broken healthcare system. Will be considered one of the most consequential presidents in our history.
And one of the most disrespected presidents in the entire history of the United States. This is without question. How is he supposed to fix that? Do what they tell him to do? Behave better? Listen to those in authority? Play nice with those who question his authority?
No. Your prescription for the rest of society falls flat on it's face for the man that holds the highest office in our country. No, your prescription means nothing. There is nothing that would please your types.
If the President of the United States cannot get the kind of respect he deserves what can the rest of the Black population expect from people like you?
2
"If the "Black Lives Matter" signs are not just an empty slogan, why is there no national as well as local black outrage and mass protests at premeditated—not unexpected or accidental—killings of blacks by blacks?"
There is. The question you should be asking is: Why is there no national coverage of the outrage and protests that occur on a weekly basis? Could it be that we, as Americans are numb to violence that is not in our own neighborhoods?
There is. The question you should be asking is: Why is there no national coverage of the outrage and protests that occur on a weekly basis? Could it be that we, as Americans are numb to violence that is not in our own neighborhoods?
I think that the problem here is that the conversation in the black community should be about education. Let's not confuse the issues here. The police are violent towards black men because they assume they are poor. In America you are valued by the amount of money you have. Ethan Couch, OJ Simpson, Robert Durst, Ray Lewis, all have things in common. They murdered people and they are wealthy so they walked away from it. If the black American community wants to see a change — their form of protest should be education. I have been racially profiled, I have felt helpless and angry, but at the end of the day I will never truly struggle with the police because I am privileged.
6
I am the the father of two girls, one aged 20, one aged 17. I have had many a talk with them about how they need to protect themselves from getting disease and pregnant. Blacks need to talk to their sons about hoodies and the police and what to do about it if they are stopped. I mean, we all have talks with our children about issues. I also have had talks about the police and them. If you are pulled over, talk slow, make no sudden moves and be 100% respectful and do exactly what he says. Its what proper parents do.
20
And then what? (When the police treat them like criminals anyway...because they're Black or Brown?)
1
Black boys dont have parents. They have a black grandmother.
forget all the niceties that you can confront the police at a later point through the courts etc. when you encounter a police officer automatically understand that there is an imbalance of power. as soon as you recognize this plain fact you exercise restraint upon your part. it is better to live for another day
15
Don't know if this is a fair analogy, but here goes.......if I call a service person to my house, (plumber, electrician, roofer) I am nice, respectful, helpful. I do this because of the 'imbalance of power'. I don't want to be charged 3 or 4 hours for a job that may take 45 minutes. For me to get in this persons face and scream......why do you charge so much, you're ripping me off, I could of done THAT! only means that I am going to lose and get the short end of the transaction. By saying 'hello' and offering him or her a coke, I hope to get a fair shake. No guarantee, of course. I will end this by apologizing to all the ethical repair folks out there and my example was the rare exception, not the rule.
1
All children, regardless of color, should be taught to be respectful of police - even when the police aren't being very respectful toward them.
They should also be told that if they are treated badly, profiled, or witness illegal activity by the police, that they have the duty to report it. Whining changes nothing, and people who abuse their power will continue to do so if no one exposes them.
They should also be told that if they are treated badly, profiled, or witness illegal activity by the police, that they have the duty to report it. Whining changes nothing, and people who abuse their power will continue to do so if no one exposes them.
22
I'm trying to understand. On the one hand, you are saying for children to be taught to respect police, even when the police are not being respectful.
Then you go on to say that they should also be told that if they are treated badly etc that they report this activity. Which is it? Assert themselves or cower? You can't do both.
Then you go on to say that they should also be told that if they are treated badly etc that they report this activity. Which is it? Assert themselves or cower? You can't do both.
Is it possible there is no solution to this "problem". Is it possible that, generally speaking, the two races are not (at least now and for the foreseeable future) able to reconcile their differences? That some form of mutual segregation is possible? Based on what I've been listening to for decades it sounds as if all we need do is develop a better "diversity" program, better educate our children, or pass new laws that will resolve these issues. What if these issues before us can't be resolved, that nothing we do will make any real difference? Insanity is described as repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result. Isn't that what we've been doing for decades? Doesn't anyone have anything new to suggest? Perhaps we're living in a real world "Groundhog Day", one that will never end.
2
Yep, oil and water -- start with one standard deviation in IQ, throw in enormous cultural differences and one wonders why we waste so much time on political correctness.
That being said, I'm white, but if Ben Carson would tone down his gay comments I would vote for him for VP in a second. That would shake this country up instantly.
That being said, I'm white, but if Ben Carson would tone down his gay comments I would vote for him for VP in a second. That would shake this country up instantly.
1
I believe the problem remains because separation/segregation remains endemic in our society. When we live next door to, go to school with work with, and socialize with each other in a truly integrated way, we can experience our common humanity. We can relate to & interact person to person, with less pre-judging. My belief & my hope.
4
Segregation you say ... OK, you can stay in Vermont and the rest of US have the other 49.
The encouraging thing about this is that parents of any race take the time to actually talk to their children and counsel them on how to behave and respect others.
6
Why do police profile certain demographics?
Its that famous Willie Sutton response to the question, why does he rob banks? Because that's where the money is.
Commit fewer crimes and you will magically see the profiling reduce and eventually go away.
Its that famous Willie Sutton response to the question, why does he rob banks? Because that's where the money is.
Commit fewer crimes and you will magically see the profiling reduce and eventually go away.
29
The key word here is "magic". This kind of magical thinking is one of the reasons that entrenched racism in this country is so difficult to address and heal. How is an innocent black person supposed to commit fewer crimes? By magically controlling other people using his or her spooky mind power? Since when are each of us responsible for the behavior of all other people who share some of our physical features? This kind of thinking places an unreasonable burden on the individual. This argument is also disingenuous, as it ignores the structures in society that drive "certain demographics" in some directions. White men commit most major financial crime, yet we don't see the police circling their communities!
20
I refer you to the justice departments report on racial bias by the Ferguson Police Department.
I also have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.
I also have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.
14
RS@" Commit fewer crimes and you will magically see the profiling reduce and eventually go away"
yeah tell that to the black residents of Ferguson and many others that are targeted so as to build the revenue of a town or city...
What a ridiculous statement...
yeah tell that to the black residents of Ferguson and many others that are targeted so as to build the revenue of a town or city...
What a ridiculous statement...
6
Some of the complaints in the comments suggest that police go where the crime is. I live in a town that has very less crime. Even statistically, in our town, young black men don't commit more crime then young white men or men of other races. But, young black kids here experience far more stops by police. To deny that there is some inherent bias in police against young black kids is to be close minded about reality.
I read that during the days when African American folks did not have the right to vote, some European Americans (those that were against universal suffrage) came up with all sorts of illogical rationalizations on why African Americans should not, and cannot vote.
No one's saying all police have this terrible bias. But it exists. And every black parent feels it in their gut to have this talk with their child, simply because they want their child to be safe. Yes, don't be silly, they do tell their kids to be law abiding. Don't you?
I read that during the days when African American folks did not have the right to vote, some European Americans (those that were against universal suffrage) came up with all sorts of illogical rationalizations on why African Americans should not, and cannot vote.
No one's saying all police have this terrible bias. But it exists. And every black parent feels it in their gut to have this talk with their child, simply because they want their child to be safe. Yes, don't be silly, they do tell their kids to be law abiding. Don't you?
19
Yes, those whom are not impacted have often been blind to the reality of what so harshly and unjustly impacts others. And as you point out, the same cognitive dissonance that many Americans rationalized in the past regarding the inhumane treatment of their fellows are still in vogue among many in our society. These notions of "differences in race" as opposed to "differences in situation," are still a vital part of the American psyche. When will we grow up?
7
Be glad you don't live in the conservative bastion of San Francisco where blacks make up 8% of school students but 71% of students arrested are black. The only places where blacks are not arrested disproportionally are prison towns where blacks count as residents but cant be arrested.
2
I am White - well, 3rd gen Russian Jew. While covering Occupy Wall Street protests for local papers, I watched police of all races attacking protesters of all races. Yes, Black men are in jeopardy of false arrests, but overall we are living in a police state. Where nobody's life matters except the very rich. As a White person, I have called the police for help when attacked in the lobby of my building. Several times police (of color) took the side of the attackers in my bldg. They clearly resented my Whiteness. There are issues here that are being smoke-screened as simply race-related. It's about money, power, class. Google the many scholarly books by social critic, Bell Hooks. @johannaclear
8
While what you say is true, it still does not negate the fact of racism and its negative impact upon society.
9
The conversation about the risks from racial profiling when confronted by police concerns two completely different issues which can come together without any warnings. The police are obliged to enforce laws and to remain safe while they do so, and bigots rarely disclose their attitudes so as to know who are the bigots. The police officer who loses patience with a citizen in a confrontation is no more likely to be a bigot than one who remains cool and calm. So when trying to address the concerns of any young person in confrontation with police, the first consideration must be to what attitude to take to avoid preventable conflicts.
Police these days are no more likely to be racially prejudiced than anyone else. What they want from people who they must confront regarding criminal matters is to determine what they must do next and to remain safe, so they want direct answers, focus upon the immediate concerns, and civil behavior. Anyone who acts in an unnatural way will arouse suspicions, and that can lead to police suspecting that the person is concealing something or may be about to react against them somehow. Following the golden rule as well as remaining focused and civil is the best advice to anyone.
Bigots are usually courteous and reasonable people who will never say anything to upset or make one feel uncomfortable, but whatever they do will be determined by very rigid stereotypes that determine how they treat others. Their prejudices are real but not obvious.
Police these days are no more likely to be racially prejudiced than anyone else. What they want from people who they must confront regarding criminal matters is to determine what they must do next and to remain safe, so they want direct answers, focus upon the immediate concerns, and civil behavior. Anyone who acts in an unnatural way will arouse suspicions, and that can lead to police suspecting that the person is concealing something or may be about to react against them somehow. Following the golden rule as well as remaining focused and civil is the best advice to anyone.
Bigots are usually courteous and reasonable people who will never say anything to upset or make one feel uncomfortable, but whatever they do will be determined by very rigid stereotypes that determine how they treat others. Their prejudices are real but not obvious.
6
Jeffrey Williams (Ferguson shooter) posted what I experienced as shocking and scary stuff on his Facebook page, about killing people and looting and other lawlessness. What surprised me was the reaction to these posts, fifty or thirty eight likes, and a lot of cheery how do and comments from friends. And no condemnation that I saw. And this stuff coming from a grown man with children.
What if people (white or black) publicly rebuked this type of scary language? Something like, because of you and the way you live your life, I have trouble conducting my own normal life without police harrassment?
Here's the guy doing this stuff right in public, and no one complains, but people just seemingly egg him on. Guys like that hurt everybody (the writing was on the wall he was going to do something really hrmful, and he did, and as everyone admits, he hurt blacks most of all) so why don't we all of us just complain? Could we have a culture of instantly condemning this kind of talk?
I'm sure there are those who will say his talk had art being reminiscent of hip hop, but really??? The ramblings of those murderers in Columbine was artistically goth, but had a teacher seen it, I think they would have intervened and saved lives in doing so.
If that guy's behaviour was reflecting on me and my family, I would speak up, at least prively, earnestly and strongly.
What if people (white or black) publicly rebuked this type of scary language? Something like, because of you and the way you live your life, I have trouble conducting my own normal life without police harrassment?
Here's the guy doing this stuff right in public, and no one complains, but people just seemingly egg him on. Guys like that hurt everybody (the writing was on the wall he was going to do something really hrmful, and he did, and as everyone admits, he hurt blacks most of all) so why don't we all of us just complain? Could we have a culture of instantly condemning this kind of talk?
I'm sure there are those who will say his talk had art being reminiscent of hip hop, but really??? The ramblings of those murderers in Columbine was artistically goth, but had a teacher seen it, I think they would have intervened and saved lives in doing so.
If that guy's behaviour was reflecting on me and my family, I would speak up, at least prively, earnestly and strongly.
20
Since eleven people agree with me, more than I usually get, I'll make a suggestion. I read about some people who publicly 'outed' people who made online racist postings. I gather they were whites who didn't want the racism to reflect on them.
Could people do that for posts like Jeffrey Williams' posts? Something like #thisdoesn'thelp
I myself wouldn't have any idea how to go about doing that, I don't do Twitter or Facebook.
Could people do that for posts like Jeffrey Williams' posts? Something like #thisdoesn'thelp
I myself wouldn't have any idea how to go about doing that, I don't do Twitter or Facebook.
The core driving force of the racism in our society are attitudes base upon stereotyping of people that projects the actions and characteristics of some onto the expectations regarding all others who share some specific characteristics. In this country, there is a history of exploitation of people deliberately denied their rights in order to make them desperate and docile beginning with slavery and continuing afterwards under Jim Crow laws. This got further mixed up with issues that arose from the exploitation of workers during the rise of the industrial based economies in Europe which lead to socialistic movements which attributed all injustices to capitalism. The Black Panthers represented a response to injustices suffered by most in the African American community as a combination of all of those factors, and a sense that only resistance and revolutionary change offered a solution. That era is over but the racist attitudes still have not gone away, and how to rid our society of them remains a big question.
3
It is very apparent how sincere these parents are in their telling of the talk they had to have with their sons. A talk I have had with my son. Who while only driving for a few years has been pulled over by the police on two occasions. One time he received the ticket the other a warning.
I have told him to be respectful, keep both hands on the steering wheel at the top at all times. And if instructed to produce his papers tell the officer where he was going to reach to get it. If you get locked up keep silent and call me. My Dad had this same talk with me. My Dad was a NYC police officer, I was a NYC police officer. Any car stop I know can turn into something deadly very quick in my profession, I am sure my Dad thought the same thing.
I had another talk with my son, it was about going into the neighborhoods where his friends of color lived. He's white. Don't go! I always preferred they visited our house. Because unlike his friends communities they could come to us without being targeted for robbery, assault or worse. My son who is white has much, much more to fear for being white in many black neighborhoods in NYC then a black man does being stopped by me or another police officer, that's the truth!
While we are at the point of talking about alleged wide spread police abuse targeting people of color. Lets talk about the very real danger of my son walking in those neighborhoods! This is the talk that Sharpton or anybody else won't have. Why would they?
I have told him to be respectful, keep both hands on the steering wheel at the top at all times. And if instructed to produce his papers tell the officer where he was going to reach to get it. If you get locked up keep silent and call me. My Dad had this same talk with me. My Dad was a NYC police officer, I was a NYC police officer. Any car stop I know can turn into something deadly very quick in my profession, I am sure my Dad thought the same thing.
I had another talk with my son, it was about going into the neighborhoods where his friends of color lived. He's white. Don't go! I always preferred they visited our house. Because unlike his friends communities they could come to us without being targeted for robbery, assault or worse. My son who is white has much, much more to fear for being white in many black neighborhoods in NYC then a black man does being stopped by me or another police officer, that's the truth!
While we are at the point of talking about alleged wide spread police abuse targeting people of color. Lets talk about the very real danger of my son walking in those neighborhoods! This is the talk that Sharpton or anybody else won't have. Why would they?
37
Thank you for this beautifully moving documentary. The interviews illustrate a universal emotion, the very special pain that parents experience when they can't protect their children. Some of the comments illustrate the blinders of prejudice that still limit the sight of many white Americans. Why is it, in 2015, in America, children of color are not "protected and served" by the police in the same way as white children? Why must communities of color bear a disproportionate burden of pain from the loss of children to police violence. The responsibility for the solution lies with all of us.
13
It's shame that black parents need to have this "Conversation" with their sons. But when black males commit crimes at vastly disproportionate rates compared to other ethnics groups, it is going to be necessary.
25
You are wrong. Statistically, whites commit crimes at the same rate as other races, however, they are arrested and convicted at a rate that is so much lower than other races to raise a red flag that they are not being targeted for punishment nearly as much as their fellows of color.
7
Institutional racism starts in public school, when (White) teachers see children of color as "stupid" and therefore uneducable, and/or when active youngsters are characterized as behavioral problems. So - our pubic school system "teaches " many young children of color that they aren't smart and too many children give up and absorb that negative message. Later they drop out, OR they become victims of the school-to-prison pipeline....at some point, maybe too many young Black males have just absorbed society's message that they are only good as fodder for (unionized and/or privatized) prison systems, where their incarceration provides work & profits for others. (Hmmm. Doesn't this sound like a version of an earlier America?) I guess I'm saying that far too many White folk here have no clue what it means to be Black in America, and do not know whereof they speak.
Not violent crimes. Read the Uniform FBI report on murder and violent crime. Unless you believe in a total national conspiracy in the law enforcement and court system you have no evidence for this. Pot arrests is a possible exception, and should be challenged and made a simple ticket and fine.
Here is a reason that cops have fear. And this took place in a 6 day period this month. 4 Black police officers shot dead by Black perps. Georgia, Maryland, Pennsylvania and a US Marshall- between March 4-10, 2015. I didn't see any of this on the front page of the NYT. Cops have to be careful. As someone else said -they have a right to go home at the end of a shift. No cops get up in the morning and say "I am going to shoot someone today" I know that many liberals may have a comment about this post- but stick to the facts of these shootings.
24
This was gutting, yet elegant.
2
Touchingly beautiful and disturbing. If every police cadet spent five minutes watching this, perhaps they might think twice before acting unprofessionally towards young black men. I hope.
8
The conversation I will have with my son will involve telling him the precautions I follow and why I follow them. SInce I've only had white police officers draw weapons on me once so far, I assume I'm doing something right. In the case in which that happened I was told they were looking for a suspect who they described (I'm quoting) as "a black male." As we were in a city that was 40% percent black, I think they were using a sorting mechanism that I would describe as rather coarse.
7
you should not have had ONE white police guy pull a weapon on you. You sound like a nice guy, and should be protected by cops, not assaulted by them!
A very moving conversation. It's time to put an end to this racist behavior and it is imperative all male children be treated the same. At 76, I'm weary of this treatment of African Americans. Enough of this cruel and unfair behavior!
9
Very salient and moving piece and as a father of two I completely empathize with each of the people in this OpEd; especially my cousin. :) I haven't read all comments so forgive me if this has been mentioned already. I think the "Black Lives Matter" movement is a worthy cause and should continue. But as much as the focus and specific events that have brought it to be, my hope is that it continues to expand and address the issue of Black on Black crime. I feel the medium of the protest is important and the larger and more passionate the protest the more it can be heard and felt. Which is why I say, be mad when a young black man or woman has their lives taken for no reason other than being in the wrong circumstances. Having said that, this is not to take away or alleviate pressure on our respective levels of government to make necessary changes and reviews for policing our society, but I hope the next time a march is organized (actually hope they don't because it usually someone else has died) then there should be an added context that Black Lives matter not only for the people in charge of protecting us, but also for anyone who would do us harm, again, for just existing.
3
Just what is "black on black" crime? What does that mean? Is it the same as white on white crime?
2
Reading these comments breaks my heart. So many of you want to believe that if you follow the rules that everything will be ok, and if something bad happens it is because... not because there is bone deep century old racism (hang them from a tree but never sign with me SAE) its because...
What? No father in the house (wildly disproportionate amount of blacks men are incarcerated for drugs despite similar usage across race, not to mention the fathers in this piece instructing their sons)
What? Live a productive life (more money spent on jails then schools and don't get me started on the our equating poverty with shiftless immorality therefore the rich must be deserving)
What ? Police tend to go where the crime is (police go to where the poor are see above)
What? If the police misbehave there are ways to report the grievance and have your voice be heard (see the DOJ report on Ferguson)
What? Because there is violence in the black community screw'em all, and its ok in the words of Ron Paul to shoot first?
Not mad at anyone for living with and in the world of white privilege, that is where we are just want everyone to see it and acknowledge it.
What? No father in the house (wildly disproportionate amount of blacks men are incarcerated for drugs despite similar usage across race, not to mention the fathers in this piece instructing their sons)
What? Live a productive life (more money spent on jails then schools and don't get me started on the our equating poverty with shiftless immorality therefore the rich must be deserving)
What ? Police tend to go where the crime is (police go to where the poor are see above)
What? If the police misbehave there are ways to report the grievance and have your voice be heard (see the DOJ report on Ferguson)
What? Because there is violence in the black community screw'em all, and its ok in the words of Ron Paul to shoot first?
Not mad at anyone for living with and in the world of white privilege, that is where we are just want everyone to see it and acknowledge it.
17
I'm astounded by the comments here. So many want to believe that is just a lack of politeness that is informing the brutality against black men. Or they bring up the straw man of black on black crime, when white on white crime is about the same percentage, since people tend to commit crimes against the people they live with.
And the very length of the comments from those who speak against the idea of racism...seems to be a storing up of hard feelings to me.
And the very length of the comments from those who speak against the idea of racism...seems to be a storing up of hard feelings to me.
10
@ Richard Scott:
The word "racist" has been tossed around here to such an extent that it's clear the majority who have used the word do not understand what it means. Because someone disagrees with you on an issue of race does not make that person a racist, and the constant use of this epithet to denigrate those that you disagree with is guaranteed to generate hard feelings now and forever. This should not surprise you. Insulting people is not a very effective way of generating empathy for your views.
The word "racist" has been tossed around here to such an extent that it's clear the majority who have used the word do not understand what it means. Because someone disagrees with you on an issue of race does not make that person a racist, and the constant use of this epithet to denigrate those that you disagree with is guaranteed to generate hard feelings now and forever. This should not surprise you. Insulting people is not a very effective way of generating empathy for your views.
1
Wow...I found a common theme in many comments here is, "I am white and my parents gave me the lesson. So don't blame your color and learn to respect authority and think about high crimes and other related societal issues in your Black community." Am I reading it right?
Some of the comments were even malicious, too.
I am "yellow" as referred in one of the comments. But I can feel frustration that would be felt by black people because of many comments posted here.
Some of the comments were even malicious, too.
I am "yellow" as referred in one of the comments. But I can feel frustration that would be felt by black people because of many comments posted here.
15
Oh well actually I'm white and my parents told me while growing up to always attack the police on sight. Throw things at them, pretend to go for a gun, spit at them, curse them out, try to steal their gun, all of that. My folks always said, don't worry you're white and thus nothing bad can ever happen to you, and it's fun to mess with the cops for no reason. And sure enough, every time I fired a crossbow at cops, or smashed their windshield with a cinder block, or whatever, they'd act surprised but then say, "oh but you're white, ok so you can get away with this, it's all in fun, have a good day and stay safe". Yup, that's exactly how things are for white people, we don't even have to pay rent, or pay for cab fare, or anything like that.
19
Wonder why "yellow" people such as yourself aren't profiled? Probably has something to do with the very low crime rate "yellow" people commit.
8
Yes. You are reading the posts correctly. White parents teach their children how to act when dealing with police officers. Why should this seem strange to you? The majority of people killed by police officers are white, not black. The week Michael Brown was killed, police in Dallas and Salt Lake City also shot two unarmed white men. A USA Today study conducted after the Michael Brown shooting revealed that on average white police officers each year kill about 400 people, including about 96 African Americans. This means that about 24 percent of those killed by white police officers are black. (It also means that about 76.5 percent of people killed by white police officers are not black. Why does this upset you?
6
My conversation with my white teenage son is different and I know this very well. He is well aware of how his friends of colors are regarded in stores, parks and restaurants compared to himself. He knows the terror a friend from Mexico feels when faced with a police officer. He knows its safer to play computer games with his black friend than to hang out downtown. Our children "know what time it is" and they know when we don't or won't.
My conversation includes the reality of the enormous power and aggression our community police exersize. I have told him that they can give a completely false account of the story with impunity. I have told him that even though he doesn't own a gun the officer that stopped him for an incomplete stop can say he threw a gun out the window and threatened the officer.
Parents need to "know what time it is" and embrace their fellow parents of colors with the acknowledgement that children are in grave danger in our America and those of color are the most by far.
My conversation includes the reality of the enormous power and aggression our community police exersize. I have told him that they can give a completely false account of the story with impunity. I have told him that even though he doesn't own a gun the officer that stopped him for an incomplete stop can say he threw a gun out the window and threatened the officer.
Parents need to "know what time it is" and embrace their fellow parents of colors with the acknowledgement that children are in grave danger in our America and those of color are the most by far.
13
Here's a much simpler conversation to have with "black sons" (or any sons, actually): if you abide by the law and behave well in society, there is almost zero chance you will ever get tangled up with law enforcement; and if by chance you do, if you are polite and follow the instructions of officers, there is almost zero chance you will get tangled up with criminal justice. Not too complicated, right? PS: For an opposite example see: Michael Brown in Ferguson.
48
What a naïve comment from Underclaw. Must not read newspapers or other literature on racism in this country against only African americans or must not read at all. I assume this individual has never walked in the shoes of African americans and have never ever experienced institutionalized racism! What a shame.
6
You missed the entire point of the video...so sad...
4
Not true. And this is not opinion. Just look at the court's decision concerning the unconstitutionality of NYPD's Stop and Frisk Program as a modern day example.
1
An honest conversation should be factual. A young black man is at highest risk of being hurt or killed by other black men. Not rogue/racist white police officers. All actual data and statistics bear this out.
57
True...
Growing up I had fights - was jumped - was robbed.... None of those were at the hands of a white person.... yes - I did experience racist comments - but never violence. All violence I experienced was from my own race... Every time I had to defend myself was against my own race. My family wasn't in this country during the Civil Rights years - so I can't compare with what those people went through though (especially in southern states). We came here into 70's and 80's NY.
Growing up I had fights - was jumped - was robbed.... None of those were at the hands of a white person.... yes - I did experience racist comments - but never violence. All violence I experienced was from my own race... Every time I had to defend myself was against my own race. My family wasn't in this country during the Civil Rights years - so I can't compare with what those people went through though (especially in southern states). We came here into 70's and 80's NY.
7
If the Mafia is the problem you racially targeted Italian-Americans.
When Puerto Ricans tried to assassinate President Harry S Truman we singled out Puerto Ricans.
Why should we not carefully track radical Muslims in the U.S. who are at war with us all over the world attacking U.S. embassies, citizens and property?
When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor we even sequestered Japanese-American citizens and removed them from their homes (wrongly) on the West Coast where it was suspected the Japanese would attack us on U.S, soil which would reach Chicago before they could be stopped (according to army assessments at the time).
Jason L. Riley WSJ article "Race, Politics and the Zimmerman Trial” states,
"The homicide rate claiming black victims today is seven times that of whites…Some 92% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks"
In 1993, Jesse Jackson told organizers in Chicago: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
Why should not blacks be targeted-especially in black neighborhoods?
1
Not the issue here, you are changing the subject and offering it as some kind of equivalent, a common but false argument...
1
Listened to an interesting discussion on NPR yesterday that discussed racism among blacks. A caller commented that there are blacks who are also racist. However, the researcher argued that blacks, as do all individuals, have certain biases based on individual experiences and other factors. The negative bias that some blacks have towards whites and the police is based on experience and the history of injustice in how blacks have been treated by the justice system and whites. In contrast, the bias or racism that whites have is generally based on who we are, i.e. black people. Rather than attack each other, why not take the time to listen to each other, examine our internal biases, become more aware of them and make a conscious decision to challenge them. Take the implicit bias test and see how you score. Results are interesting!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/implicit-bias/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/implicit-bias/
2
When you talk to whites who express bias toward blacks, many cite actually interactions with black people. For example, one commentator said he had been mugged six times, all by young black males. Interracial murders are relatively rate, but FBI data shows that blacks are much quicker on the interracial trigger finger than whites. The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6) shows that 409 blacks murdered whites while 189 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks in 2013.
5
That was stunning. Thank you. Everyone—at least every white person—in America should see this.
3
As a Black man, I find this article maddening, glib and irresponsible.
The gentle, White liberal faux intellectual elite at the Times are doing the equivalent of patting a puppy on the head with this series of articles.
Painting my race with a broad brush of victimhood does us no favors. Dr. King and the heroes who died during the Civil Rights Movement have paid the price for the freedoms I enjoy as a Black man in this country and there is really no need to cast a dark cloud over all 34 million of us, creating instant paranoia, distrust and sadly, lower self-esteem.
Treat incidents of police misconduct as just that--police misconduct. Stop injecting race at every turn, and the paranoia, distrust and need to single us out on the front page of a major newspaper will subside.
The gentle, White liberal faux intellectual elite at the Times are doing the equivalent of patting a puppy on the head with this series of articles.
Painting my race with a broad brush of victimhood does us no favors. Dr. King and the heroes who died during the Civil Rights Movement have paid the price for the freedoms I enjoy as a Black man in this country and there is really no need to cast a dark cloud over all 34 million of us, creating instant paranoia, distrust and sadly, lower self-esteem.
Treat incidents of police misconduct as just that--police misconduct. Stop injecting race at every turn, and the paranoia, distrust and need to single us out on the front page of a major newspaper will subside.
68
I think it's irresponsible to treat police misconduct as if it is isolated from race. How many scientific papers need to be written for you not ignore the issue of race in the treatment of African Americans?
13
How many scientific papers on the behavioral and deficient parenting problems among too many in our community that fuel the "treatment" you are talking about do you need to ignore to continue advancing a victim narrative that no longer applies?
13
Kevin, you are right! The report issued by Atty Holder on Ferguon PD and Court System and the Federal Court's finding NYPD's Stop & Frisk Program unconstitutional and violating the civil rights of people of color are proof that it is far more than "simple" police misconduct.
1
This is an Op-Doc, right?
I see some comments on here complaining that this discussion is all about black people, and that whites, other races, and other diverse groups (e.g., differently abled, etc.) aren't included.
The Op-Doc is 4 minutes long. What, are they going to include every group in that time frame? I would suggest being a bit more reasonable.
Further, instead of complaining (which is so many accuse black people of doing all the time)--what's stopping you from making, financing, or suggesting an Op-Doc about your group?
It's interesting that now that blacks are the focus of various media narratives, how suddenly everyone else complains that their group isn't included.
That's what it feels like to be marginalized. Welcome to the club.
I see some comments on here complaining that this discussion is all about black people, and that whites, other races, and other diverse groups (e.g., differently abled, etc.) aren't included.
The Op-Doc is 4 minutes long. What, are they going to include every group in that time frame? I would suggest being a bit more reasonable.
Further, instead of complaining (which is so many accuse black people of doing all the time)--what's stopping you from making, financing, or suggesting an Op-Doc about your group?
It's interesting that now that blacks are the focus of various media narratives, how suddenly everyone else complains that their group isn't included.
That's what it feels like to be marginalized. Welcome to the club.
21
It’s amazing how defensive some of the commenters are. Some comments seem to imply that there isn’t a problem because in their area cops also harass people who aren’t Black. That doesn’t justify anything. It would be like saying someone who steals from the bank that he works for isn’t really an embezzler because he also stole from other banks when he got the chance.
Some cops are bullies and bigots. The fact that the bullying part also extends to other groups doesn’t excuse the bigoted part. None of it should be excused. The cops who consider themselves ‘good cops’ should support reform because they should realize that every time they cover up for one of the bad cops they become less good. The so-called ‘thin blue line’ damages the reputation of the whole force. The police forces in many places across the country need to do a much better job in recruiting and training. They also need to do a better job in holding cops accountable when they abuse their power otherwise the force doesn’t have a minor ‘bad apple’ problem, they have a barrel of bad apples.
Some cops are bullies and bigots. The fact that the bullying part also extends to other groups doesn’t excuse the bigoted part. None of it should be excused. The cops who consider themselves ‘good cops’ should support reform because they should realize that every time they cover up for one of the bad cops they become less good. The so-called ‘thin blue line’ damages the reputation of the whole force. The police forces in many places across the country need to do a much better job in recruiting and training. They also need to do a better job in holding cops accountable when they abuse their power otherwise the force doesn’t have a minor ‘bad apple’ problem, they have a barrel of bad apples.
16
I think what people are complaining about is that what gets covered in the media is white officers harassing young black men. There are no (or very few) articles about the stresses of police officers who are trying to protect the public, or white women being threatened by black male teenagers in the public high schools or young Hispanic men being targeted or young black female teenagers... all these other situations are a reality, too.
18
Law enforcement is an arm of the government paid and accountable to the People. Citizens are not drafted or required to serve in that capacity and as such are sworn to uphold an oath. The police, in recognition of the inherent danger and threats they face are afforded strong legal protections and are allowed certain liberties to protect themselves that attempt to minimize those risks. That said the foundation of our society is an adherence to the US Constitution that provides protection to the individual against the power of the government. The issue of police abuses against people of color is nothing new, America's history will undeniably attest to that fact. The dangers of policing does NOT diminish let alone excuse police brutality. Your argument is false and seeks to dodge the issue at hand...
2
I have a younger brother. We are both white and when younger we both had our share of, ah, interactions with police officers. Driving offenses, noise complaints, public drinking, etc., etc. I never received a ticket or citation. My brother was ticketed and cited several times, and spent at least one night in jail. The difference in outcomes? Attitude. Where I was respectful and responsive to 'suggestions', he was confrontational and usually minimally or non-compliant. Same race, similar situations, but different attitudes leading to different outcomes.
Takeaway? Not going to argue about race as a factor in being stopped by police, but will argue that once stopped attitude and behavior trump race.
Takeaway? Not going to argue about race as a factor in being stopped by police, but will argue that once stopped attitude and behavior trump race.
41
It's nice that you agree that race is a factor in being stopped by police, but why do you think that your experience allows you conclude that attitude and behavior trump race once you are stopped? The fact that two white kids were treated differently by the police does not demonstrate that kids of different races would be treated the same if only they acted the same.
Can you even imagine how infuriating a comment like yours must be to someone who has been unfairly harassed by police? You're telling them that it's their fault; that if they only had a better attitude then they wouldn't be harassed.
Can you even imagine how infuriating a comment like yours must be to someone who has been unfairly harassed by police? You're telling them that it's their fault; that if they only had a better attitude then they wouldn't be harassed.
15
No doubt attitude is important, but I'm willing to wager that neither you nor your brother were routinely stopped simply for being white. When I was younger, I certainly had my fill of "routine" i.e. racially contrived stops by the police. I've seen whites completely lose it in the most mundane situations when they thought they were being discriminated against because of race. Everyone feels outraged at being treated shabbily because of someone else's racial biases. So it's important to recognize that the advice to never mouth off or become angry, offered by someone white who was stopped by the police for actually doing something wrong, can come across as glib and high-handed when offered to black men who have been stopped for doing nothing wrong at all.
11
Wrong. The takeaway is that, even though both of you were making actual offenses, the worst that happened to either of you is to spend a night in a drunk tank. Any guns pulled on you? Me neither, but that happens regularly to black people who did not make any offenses.
Try to look at the statistics, read the DOJ report on Ferguson. This is how you measure disparate impact across races; not by comparing outcomes for two white guys.
Try to look at the statistics, read the DOJ report on Ferguson. This is how you measure disparate impact across races; not by comparing outcomes for two white guys.
11
A friend who served in combat in Vietnam got a job working on high voltage power lines on utility poles. Eventually, he saved enough money to buy a Corvette, his favorite car. On the south side of Chicago, he was routinely stopped by Chicago police and told that a Black man couldn't have a Corvette unless he stole it! However, as a person not of color, and contrary to a statement of one mother in the video, I do have to instruct my children on what to do and say if and when confronted by a police officer, especially the kind who sound and appear to be racist and bullies.
11
Don't ever talk back to a cop.
If stopped in a car, but your hands on the dashboard.
Keep your hands in plain sight at all times.
Don't ever do anything to make a cop nervous.
If you were treated unfairly, it can be addressed after the fact.
I had the same talk with my (white) teenage son and daughter.
It has nothing to do with race.
It has everything to so with the fact that teenagers (and young adults) do stupid things, particularly in groups or when alcohol is involved. Do something stupid in a tense situation in front of a cop and you can get shot.
Racism does not lurk under every rock in America.
If stopped in a car, but your hands on the dashboard.
Keep your hands in plain sight at all times.
Don't ever do anything to make a cop nervous.
If you were treated unfairly, it can be addressed after the fact.
I had the same talk with my (white) teenage son and daughter.
It has nothing to do with race.
It has everything to so with the fact that teenagers (and young adults) do stupid things, particularly in groups or when alcohol is involved. Do something stupid in a tense situation in front of a cop and you can get shot.
Racism does not lurk under every rock in America.
41
"It has nothing to do with race."
Must be nice to have the luxury of indulging oneself in the conceit that police stops and police perceptions have nothing to do with race. Racism, as in active racial hatred, may not lurk under every rock, but profound racial bias does and it can produce the same outcomes as active hatred.
Must be nice to have the luxury of indulging oneself in the conceit that police stops and police perceptions have nothing to do with race. Racism, as in active racial hatred, may not lurk under every rock, but profound racial bias does and it can produce the same outcomes as active hatred.
13
Well, maybe not every single rock, but you ought to consider whether there's a lot that you just don't see because you're white.
While it may be true that a white kid can get in trouble by doing something stupid, it's pretty clear that a black kid will get into trouble for a whole lot less. If you don't see the difference, then you haven't really digested things like this documentary that the Times posted, or statements made by black men like our President who have experienced suspicion, harassment, and worse when doing nothing wrong whatsoever.
While it may be true that a white kid can get in trouble by doing something stupid, it's pretty clear that a black kid will get into trouble for a whole lot less. If you don't see the difference, then you haven't really digested things like this documentary that the Times posted, or statements made by black men like our President who have experienced suspicion, harassment, and worse when doing nothing wrong whatsoever.
13
I would only add that even teenagers behaving well can still get harassed by a "nervous" cop. But your overall point is correct - whoever you are, comply, comply, comply.
2
I am an old white man and have been warning young male relatives and friends
for years to be careful of the police. Walk the other way, cross the street, keep your mouth shut.
The police are afraid, especially of athletic black men.
About 20 years ago, I was pulled over for something and the officer asked for my license.
I reached under the seat for my wallet and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He said, you could have been reaching for a gun.
I was 52, twenty years ago, 5'9" 150 lbs.
If I was a black man I could have been shot.
Television, movies, the media and drugs has scarred the daylights out of Americans. Irresponsible politicians, self serving prosecutors, the list is long.
for years to be careful of the police. Walk the other way, cross the street, keep your mouth shut.
The police are afraid, especially of athletic black men.
About 20 years ago, I was pulled over for something and the officer asked for my license.
I reached under the seat for my wallet and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He said, you could have been reaching for a gun.
I was 52, twenty years ago, 5'9" 150 lbs.
If I was a black man I could have been shot.
Television, movies, the media and drugs has scarred the daylights out of Americans. Irresponsible politicians, self serving prosecutors, the list is long.
20
Every teenager, male or female, of every race, needs to know that where they are, who they are with, and how they behave can greatly affect the way they are treated by police. Other factors aside, any teenage boy of color is going to have to be a lot more polite than any white boy or any female to avoid being harassed. Cops of every race are often scared and/or aggressive, and there are consequences...
8
Some years ago I rode in the front seat with a police officer on a night shift as part of a leadership training program to acquaint participants with key municipal services. I have never forgotten the details of that night.
My 'partner' was a young police officer. We answered a variety of calls - from a theft at the mall to a potential home invasion to a fight where the officer pursued the perpetrator & I tagged along (although well behind) to traffic stops.
I had never before truly considered the risk taken by those who protect us - especially when it's dark and harder to assess a situation.
I don't support police unfairly targeting any group - but I'd like to see some front page articles from the viewpoint of the mostly fine people who face work hazards we don't truly understand or appreciate.
My 'partner' was a young police officer. We answered a variety of calls - from a theft at the mall to a potential home invasion to a fight where the officer pursued the perpetrator & I tagged along (although well behind) to traffic stops.
I had never before truly considered the risk taken by those who protect us - especially when it's dark and harder to assess a situation.
I don't support police unfairly targeting any group - but I'd like to see some front page articles from the viewpoint of the mostly fine people who face work hazards we don't truly understand or appreciate.
27
I knew when I saw this short documentary that many of the white readers enjoying unacknowledged white privilege would respond negatively. Even though the case study of Ferguson has demonstrated, to most people's eyes, the attitudinal racism that underlies the structural racism of the police, even though the seemingly interminable police killings of unarmed blacks had shocked people around the world, a large population of whites live in denial made possible by surgical amnesia, cutting out American history's oppressive tumor. For them, the effects of slavery, Jim Crow and systematic oppression either never existed or miraculously disappeared with the election of Obama. For such whites, statistics related to incarceration, employment, health outcomes and wealth--rather than reveal the structure of oppression--show the lazy violence and neglect of the oppressed. Such views, pathetic and sad though they may be, continue to hold great currency. Most of us who are not black clearly have no idea what it feels like to grow up back in America. When the New York Times finally gives us a powerful glimpse, which should strike us like a ray of sun illuminating a world that we will never experience first hand, many just shut their eyes and retreat into their barricades.
80
Very well put and beautifully written.
4
"even though the seemingly interminable police killings of unarmed blacks had shocked people around the world"
Are you referring to Michael Brown, who robbed a convenience store, assaulted a police officer, tried to steal his weapon and then charged him? Or are you referring to the man who was shot and killed in Los Angeles after resisting arrest and trying to steal an officer's gun? Or maybe you are talking about the teenager in Madison, Wisconsin who was recently convicted of armed robbery?
Can you show me the evidence that race played a role in any of these incidents?
Are you referring to Michael Brown, who robbed a convenience store, assaulted a police officer, tried to steal his weapon and then charged him? Or are you referring to the man who was shot and killed in Los Angeles after resisting arrest and trying to steal an officer's gun? Or maybe you are talking about the teenager in Madison, Wisconsin who was recently convicted of armed robbery?
Can you show me the evidence that race played a role in any of these incidents?
17
Just thought I'd say that it has brightens my day to read this enlightened and compassionate comment from a supposed fellow member of our electorate... Gives me hope that a better and brighter day is in the works for humanity. Two thumbs up!
5
Thank you for posting this op-doc on the front page. It is a moving piece and it makes an important statement about the impact of racism on African American families. Until we see each other as being from the same race the "human race" there will be no peace. If our country remains divided we all lose.
13
First, let me say that I am acutely aware of the oppressive racism of the American criminal justice system, and that there is no doubt that the overwhelming impact of police brutality and profiling is visited on black boys. The black male has been equated to danger and criminality by our racist culture.
As a white male, I experience enormous relative privilege vis-à-vis blacks, especially in the criminal justice system. I did things as a youth that I know would have resulted in life-long consequences if I was black, and I'm outraged that this racism is perpetuated. It diminishes every accomplishment I make, because I know I would have achieved less in life with black skin.
However, as a white person I can assure blacks that we have these conversations too. Whites teach their children about the power and authority of police, and train children - especially boys - to be non-threatening in the face of police authority even when it veers into abuse. It does not in any way diminish the greater need for these conversations with black boys to acknowledge that there is a need for them with white boys too. In our gun-loving country, cops are on their toes for that sudden deadly encounter, and they can react swiftly, mistakenly and lethally.
I accept the fact that the conversation is most important to black boys who are much more likely to experience brutality. But can blacks accept that white have the conversation too? We're not lying either.
As a white male, I experience enormous relative privilege vis-à-vis blacks, especially in the criminal justice system. I did things as a youth that I know would have resulted in life-long consequences if I was black, and I'm outraged that this racism is perpetuated. It diminishes every accomplishment I make, because I know I would have achieved less in life with black skin.
However, as a white person I can assure blacks that we have these conversations too. Whites teach their children about the power and authority of police, and train children - especially boys - to be non-threatening in the face of police authority even when it veers into abuse. It does not in any way diminish the greater need for these conversations with black boys to acknowledge that there is a need for them with white boys too. In our gun-loving country, cops are on their toes for that sudden deadly encounter, and they can react swiftly, mistakenly and lethally.
I accept the fact that the conversation is most important to black boys who are much more likely to experience brutality. But can blacks accept that white have the conversation too? We're not lying either.
21
The difference is that your conversation is pre-cautionary and our conversation could be life-saving. #caseclosed
9
If everyone is your area is afraid of the police, then everyone should ban together to reform the police force. Just accepting that fear of the police is the way things should be is a step closer to a police state. Cops want to ensure their own safety but that shouldn’t be at the expense of the safety and security of everyone that they come in contact with.
People who are afraid of the police won’t cooperate with them because they want to avoid contact with them as much as possible. That in turn makes the job of the police harder. Police forces who act like an occupying army will be treated like an occupying army.
People who are afraid of the police won’t cooperate with them because they want to avoid contact with them as much as possible. That in turn makes the job of the police harder. Police forces who act like an occupying army will be treated like an occupying army.
4
@Strong - there's lots of differences, and I thought I noted that one 3 different times.
We need to work on so much as a society, but let's work together.
One place to start is to accept that just about everyone feels burdened by the current situation.
Blacks feel the heavy and real oppression of systemic racism. It's horrible, as anyone with a brain and/or a copy of The New Jim Crow well understands.
Cops feel the fear of there being guns, guns, everywhere, especially dangerous in the hands of a population with so little left to lose. They also are expected to raise revenue, which is horrible. And let's face it - boys who were bullies tend to be over-represented in the field.
But whites feel something too - whites see that civilian/police interactions are ever more dangerous, whites see their black friends and family disproportionately affected and treated like presumptive criminals, and whites have to live with the fact that our relative privileges diminish the validity of our accomplishments.
Let's all acknowledge each other's feelings and work on this together. Saying police brutality isn't on whites' radar is divisive and just not true.
We need to work on so much as a society, but let's work together.
One place to start is to accept that just about everyone feels burdened by the current situation.
Blacks feel the heavy and real oppression of systemic racism. It's horrible, as anyone with a brain and/or a copy of The New Jim Crow well understands.
Cops feel the fear of there being guns, guns, everywhere, especially dangerous in the hands of a population with so little left to lose. They also are expected to raise revenue, which is horrible. And let's face it - boys who were bullies tend to be over-represented in the field.
But whites feel something too - whites see that civilian/police interactions are ever more dangerous, whites see their black friends and family disproportionately affected and treated like presumptive criminals, and whites have to live with the fact that our relative privileges diminish the validity of our accomplishments.
Let's all acknowledge each other's feelings and work on this together. Saying police brutality isn't on whites' radar is divisive and just not true.
4
Crime. Start there. Less crimes committed, less profiling. To ignore an elephant in the room and blame "insensitive" " privileged " members of one race is just a political agenda or guilt. If the causes and ways to deal with disproportionate crime were addressed, the issue would be on its way towards resolution
33
Crime is at its lowest level since the early 1960s. Look at the trends in homicide rates. There's no evidence that profiling declines with the crime rate.
20
oh please. there is an epidemic of crime in a certain segment of the black community. common sense tells you that less crime from young african americans would change the perception of law enforcement and everyone else. in my opinion, there has to be self reflection and a way to transmit values of respect, education and achievement on the part of the black community towards its youth.
As the grandfather of African American/White grandchildren my fear is that the social issues which torment the Black community will not be solved because the liberal establishment will keep pointing its blaming finger at the effect and not the cause.
22
Sam, do we know the cause? I think all over the country black and white and asian, probably all police officers quickly think what's the prison population consist of??? Mostly black, I better protect myself if I stop a black person. Tight? Wrong??? We, all of us have to do a better job to change things.
I am appalled by a large majority of the comments to this lovely and important video. It seems the majority of commentators are white males who simply refuse to see the reality of the world we are living in. Take a second and listen to what people are telling you. You might learn something.
23
I live in a mixed community and I have seen everything. I have been attacked twice by young black men and I have seen officers who are white treat people of all colors with respect and restraint. I think this is an important video (and reality). However, life is not just black and white. My community is proof that there is a lot of grey area.
6
I am pleased for you that you have seen officers treat everyone with respect. Take a look at the DOJ report on Ferguson if you want to learn more about systemic racism and its effect. This is a reality. Just having a few counter examples will not change that.
5
i do not think of NYT readers as racist pigs; perhaps I am wrong? or maybe this comment section was not edited per usual standards?
I had just this sort of conversation with my white daughter when she was a teenager full of lots of bravado and swagger. Hopefully it would never happen, but if you are in a situation involving the police, you cooperate. Everything else can be worried about later, the goal is to come home safely.
16
I think you missed the point of the video...
2
This was an incredibly evocative piece that helped me better understand as a parent what I have seen more abstractly as a reader of the newspaper or a viewer of the news that's been on TV. Thank you for this piece.
10
When you have the conversation, tell him not to do what the "Gentle Giant" did and knock over a diminutive store clerk while stealing from his store, and then assault a cop who tells you to get out of the street.
47
I'm Black and my parents never gave me such a ludicrous talk. They taught me to be respectful of authority and adults until given a reason not to, at which time to go back and tell them, they would handle it.
I've never been locked up or anything. My parents did however warn me about the kids in the neighborhood, most of whom black that were up to no good. Fast forward 20 some years later, my folks were pretty spot on about most of those kids they warned me about. Then again my parents are African so these type of obsessive self-pitying exercises that African-Americans love to indulge in were foreign to them. I have no plans of giving my sons any such talk either.
I've never been locked up or anything. My parents did however warn me about the kids in the neighborhood, most of whom black that were up to no good. Fast forward 20 some years later, my folks were pretty spot on about most of those kids they warned me about. Then again my parents are African so these type of obsessive self-pitying exercises that African-Americans love to indulge in were foreign to them. I have no plans of giving my sons any such talk either.
101
Then for the sake of you and your sons, I certainly hope that if they ever get pulled over by the police, the cops can make that distinction.
7
Your parents were African. So they knew, and apparently you know nothing about the history or dynamics of race relations in this country. Good luck.
3
I was born and raised here. I'm 37 years old and have accomplished quite a lot in this supposedly vicious, racist country where cops go around beating up on innocent black people.
Hey if you guys want to live your lives out as perpetual victims I'm not going to stop you. My family and I choose not to join you while you wallow in self-pity.
Hey if you guys want to live your lives out as perpetual victims I'm not going to stop you. My family and I choose not to join you while you wallow in self-pity.
5
This is hands-down one of the most moving and beautiful works of video documentary. And as I cried watching it, I also felt hope in the power of such media to make us all feel the heartbreak of black parents and really begin to deeply empathize. My hope is that that empathy, in turn, inspires the humanity in each of us to make ours a kinder and more just society. Thank you to the filmmakers and the brave parents who spoke their (and their sons') lives, their truth.
15
Hilarious but tragic, whites who seek sympathy or look to hold blacks responsible for a system that has been here since this nation's inception...white superiority.
Whenever it is amplified or spoken about whites, some, cry "foul ! ".
Fact is blacks were in a system of apartheid, it will take many generations for that culture to dissipate. Begin with policy and law then maybe we can change hearts and minds. But as it stands whites are so defensive of what is untenable it makes one wonder.....when?
Whenever it is amplified or spoken about whites, some, cry "foul ! ".
Fact is blacks were in a system of apartheid, it will take many generations for that culture to dissipate. Begin with policy and law then maybe we can change hearts and minds. But as it stands whites are so defensive of what is untenable it makes one wonder.....when?
12
This is a conversation my parents did not need to have with me.
Because my dad stepped up to the plate and was there to raise me. I saw the way my father put on his best suit, just to go to town with us and carried himself with dignity and respect no matter who he met on the street.
That's why police officers and the sheriff's department would ask my dad for advice on how to approach and question people of color. I just did what my father did. If you respect yourself, there's a 100% chance you will never fit the profile any officer is looking to harass.
Because my dad stepped up to the plate and was there to raise me. I saw the way my father put on his best suit, just to go to town with us and carried himself with dignity and respect no matter who he met on the street.
That's why police officers and the sheriff's department would ask my dad for advice on how to approach and question people of color. I just did what my father did. If you respect yourself, there's a 100% chance you will never fit the profile any officer is looking to harass.
52
So in other words white kids can walk down the street in sweats, bouncing balls, or congregate in street clothes on corners, drinking and cursing, and be ok.
And young black men can walk down the street in business attire, and congregate in front of churches,
And receive equal treatment.
And that's equality?
And young black men can walk down the street in business attire, and congregate in front of churches,
And receive equal treatment.
And that's equality?
15
This is a conversation my parents had to have with me. My Dad was there everyday of my life. I saw him put on his best suit, serve his country in the Marine Corps, get a degree, start a business and be repeatedly stopped because "he fit the type." I followed my Dad's example, I wear a suit, I carry myself with the dignity that he and my grandfather's show me. Oh I still get stopped from time to time because I "fit the description". Your statement while I believe well intentioned, isn't true as often as we would like it to be.
23
My statements would be true if we took a leadership role in our communities. It's simple math. If there are no types who fit the type...
8
I'm a Black man. Admittedly, I was born in another era: I grew up in the 1970s. My parents had no issues with explaining that I couldn't do what you see your White friends doing because I would wind up in jail.
What is somewhat disheartening is that now Black parents need to explain that their male children can easily wind up shot and killed by the police.
What is somewhat disheartening is that now Black parents need to explain that their male children can easily wind up shot and killed by the police.
23
Yes, but look what happened to Charles Blow's son, that was something, huh? Mind you, I am not blaming the cop, I don't know the details. I just know that if anyone was filled with self respect it would be the Yale -attending son of a world famous writer!
8
The police officer was African-American, from what I have read.
5
1. Charles M. Blow is world famous in the mind of Charles M. Blow.
2. The evil police officer that racially profiled and detained Mr. Blow's son? Is also Black.
I do know the details.
2. The evil police officer that racially profiled and detained Mr. Blow's son? Is also Black.
I do know the details.
2
Here's an idea...tell your sons what other parents of varying ethnic, cultural or racial backgrounds tell their children...when the police tell you to stop, you stop. When they tell you to freeze, you freeze. When they tell you to get out of your car, get out of your car. Do these things without mouthing off. If this ever happens to you, tell us, your parents, and we will decide if the action was warranted or if we should hire an attorney and challenge the police in court, the legal and proper way.
Or they can continue to mouth off, resist arrest and run...in which case more will be shot. That's a certainty.
Or they can continue to mouth off, resist arrest and run...in which case more will be shot. That's a certainty.
50
Common sense ain't so common.
9
You both missed the point of the video...
2
what if the police tell you to freeze day after day? what if they pat you down day after day? what if they insult you to your face day after day? at what point do you stop taking it? for white kids, maybe they have one incident or two with a cop. if it only happens once you can comply and walk away. if you see it happening over and over and over, polite compliance may not be so easy to muster.
and frankly, the cops work for us, not the other way around. why should we swallow when we're not in the wrong?
and frankly, the cops work for us, not the other way around. why should we swallow when we're not in the wrong?
I am white. My son is black. I asked a black male teacher to have this conversation with my son. He did and I am grateful, however I will ask him to view this video as well. Thank you.
19
Felix@ What a wise man ...thank you
4
This story is very distressing, not for the content, but to see the reaction of white male america dominating (yet again) the top picked comments. Will no one plead with them to walk a mile in the other shoes? It seems this may be the only way they will ever get over their Archie Bunker attitudes. You got harassed walking through a black neighborhood? The world's smallest violin cries for you.
32
If you go into any police interaction with an attitude, you are likely to find trouble. Confrontation is a two way street. Simply say "Yes sir" or "No sir", answer the officer's questions respectfully, and there will be few if any problems. "Disrespecting" seems to be a term I hear a lot from black people. Get over it. You will not win if that is the only excuse you have to fall back on.
28
We won't win period, because people like you have no idea how entrenched bias against black males is society. I could teach my kids to be the most boring, non-threatening, respectful and benign individuals, but it still doesn't change that fact. We cannot when no matter how we behave, because there are many whites in power who simply care to abuse us because they know they can get away, literally, with murder.
36
I'm with Canary on this. We're not asking for the world, we're not asking to turn everything upside down. White people won't have to apologize for the next 20 years on their knees and pay reparations. All we're asking for is fairness, and an acknowledgement that there has been wrong in the past and it does take time and attitude change to get things right. It really doesn't take much change for society to register that folks are trying at least. That kind of effort would result in immediate gratification and relief, and if folks like Paul can't get, well this is the problem.
17
police are supposed to be professionals with the ability to control themselves. if somebody mouths off or disses let them. as kids we use to say sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me. it is sad state of affairs that too many police officers could benefit from anger management classes.
these conversations are necessary for children of all races and a reminder to people of all ages.
these conversations are necessary for children of all races and a reminder to people of all ages.
2
Just have the exact same conversation I had with my white son. If you are pulled over by the police, roll down the window, put the inside lights on at night, hands on the steering wheel, don't do anything until he or she asks for your license and registration, and be very polite.
And I'm sorry, but this is terrible that parents do this. I was pulled over by a white cop, who was very rude, for the most bogus "fail to yield to a pedestrian charge" you can imagine. If I were black I would attribute the ticket and the treatment to racism. In fact, it was just a rude cop making a ticket quota.
And I'm sorry, but this is terrible that parents do this. I was pulled over by a white cop, who was very rude, for the most bogus "fail to yield to a pedestrian charge" you can imagine. If I were black I would attribute the ticket and the treatment to racism. In fact, it was just a rude cop making a ticket quota.
36
The difference is that if you were black, you'd have a much greater chance of being hauled to jail, beaten up or killed during a stop. please, please, don't act as if you'd have the same experience. you would not.
16
Attitude is everything.
4
Once again, another white man fails the test of truly walking in a black man's shoes.
5
Comments like "we need to tell all kids this regardless of race" or "black kids just need to not resist arrest or talk back, etc." is evident that many, many people here have very little capacity for deep understanding of racial discrimination, their own biases and discriminatory criminal justice policies. add to that a frightening lack of empathy.
I have to admit that I simply do not have the patience to respond to these comments over and over again.
I have to admit that I simply do not have the patience to respond to these comments over and over again.
37
You are right. I do not understand it. And according to people like you, I never will. Then how can you expect me to solve it if anything I say is meaningless due to my white skin? (or actually my brown skin because I am of Sicilian decent but apparently I am not brown enough to qualify as a person of color). My thoughts and opinions on this matter are not asked for or wanted. So why should I try?
I have no idea what black people go through on a day to day basis. I try to live my life with respect and decency to all. What more can I do?
I have no idea what black people go through on a day to day basis. I try to live my life with respect and decency to all. What more can I do?
2
joie@ Thank you for your comment. Your sentiment is shared by many.
It is sickening to have to go over this stuff. The delusion of most of white America is based on pure ignorance. That is why the real story on "native Americans" or "African slaves" isn't told, whites cant accept that their idea of America is "delusional".
Then there are those who know the facts or truth but seek to use sophistic arguments to rationalize the system of apartheid in America. Just this weekend there was an expose on the NYPD and corruption. It said everything blacks have been saying for years. Same as Ferguson.
It is apparent that many whites would rather not know the truth, it becomes glaringly obvious that they have been living in a system of "privilege" based on nothing more than possessing "pale face"; as the "native's" would say.
It is sickening to have to go over this stuff. The delusion of most of white America is based on pure ignorance. That is why the real story on "native Americans" or "African slaves" isn't told, whites cant accept that their idea of America is "delusional".
Then there are those who know the facts or truth but seek to use sophistic arguments to rationalize the system of apartheid in America. Just this weekend there was an expose on the NYPD and corruption. It said everything blacks have been saying for years. Same as Ferguson.
It is apparent that many whites would rather not know the truth, it becomes glaringly obvious that they have been living in a system of "privilege" based on nothing more than possessing "pale face"; as the "native's" would say.
2
@Cassidy - we are asking for understanding. That means your opinions may not be warranted. Just sit and listen. Try to understand. Maybe the change we are all hoping for will come from that.
1
This was short, touching and very powerful. Thank you. I believe it when she said it is a gift to be black, and as we all know, every gift has a price. Little did we know after a black man was put into the White House — for two terms no less — that not only would that historic event bring pride to the hearts of all of us who do prefer equality to elitism, but that it also brought about a sudden awareness of how pervasive racism still is in this country, particularly in local law enforcement, and how policemen can pretty much do as they please without consequence.
16
According to FBI statistics, in 2013 those assaulting and injuring law enforcement officers with a gun or knife were 54% black and 41% white. 96% were male and 60% were under 30 years old. Is it any wonder the police react differently to young black males?
Do any parents have the same conversation with their daughters? If the conduct of police was racist, wouldn't black women have the same problem as black men?
Here is the link: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/tables/table_90_leos_asl...
Do any parents have the same conversation with their daughters? If the conduct of police was racist, wouldn't black women have the same problem as black men?
Here is the link: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/tables/table_90_leos_asl...
28
Do you react differently to young black males? To understand others behavior, examine your own feelings and behavior. Its one thing to be apprehensive, and quite another to let it dictate your behavior. We want courageous law enforcement, not scared men who use statistics to back up their cowardice and aggression.
4
I am shocked and saddened by the negative comments here, many blaming the parents or, worse, the children themselves. What has happened to this country? Have we lost all empathy as a people? Don't we want all of our children to grow up in a safe, egalitarian, color-blind society?
18
I think this was really cool. Where are the conversations to our black girls?? They are also targets of racial profiling. They may not be racially profiled by olive officers as often as our young black men, but they are not immune from it. I know from experience that the same conversations about race and the perception of who a black woman is is a subject of conversations with black parents too. I just had a conversation with my 9 year old daughter about how people will perceive her and what main stream america wihl think of her worth depending on her behavior.
Why are we not talking about black people in whole terms? Black men are not the only affected by racism and mistreatment of their persons. BLack women are not better off.
Why are we not talking about black people in whole terms? Black men are not the only affected by racism and mistreatment of their persons. BLack women are not better off.
8
Unaddressed in a lot of these "conversations" is an understanding of what police are doing, and why they act the way they do. Race aside, the cops are being taught tactics to survive a low probability but high consequence event. No cop expects to be assaulted on every stop, but they have to be prepared for it. The public, however, has NO idea of what the cop is doing. The cops don't want to give up trade secrets, and won't educate the public. Driver's Ed usually has NO instruction about traffic stops. It's sometimes, as in the terrible shooting of a black man reaching back into a car for his wallet, a matter of innocent action by a motorist and a cop perceiving it wrongly. Not to minimize race, but sometimes it's a driver, white, black, whatever, not doing anything wrong, but the cop, perhaps alerted to a robbery call, perceives a reach for a wallet, getting out of the car, or the actions of an impaired passenger, as a threat. Education by the police on their perspective as well as what to do would be a big help BEFORE the flashing lights go on with our teenagers. The kids are scared to death, even at roadblocks. They've never been taught "what to do" yet cops practice worst case stops constantly (for a reason). The lack of education kills, and race, sadly, exacerbates the problem. Perhaps a reasoned public awareness campaign could help.
28
Thank you NYT. This is a very touching and informative video. Not everyone is open to this information but it’s good to have the information available for people of good will who really want to listen and understand.
11
I think it's important to do, actually it's important for all parents to tell their kids not to mess around with police too much. When they pull you over, don't curse them out or make sudden lunges at the glove compartment. When they ask you to stop on the street, stop, don't break into a run and grab at your waist. It'll save a lot of trouble for kids if they can keep a cool head.
Of course, with black people in particular, police are more likely to harass them or shoot them. But black people have it rough in all sorts of ways in America (less so than decades ago, thankfully), and I think it's also important for these parents to mention something else to their young sons. As a young black male, their odds of getting shot by another young black male, for no real reason, are about a hundred times better than their odds of getting shot by a cop. So they should make clear, be careful of the police, but if you treat the police correctly they will respond within the law. But be really careful of other young black men, because they won't hold back, and polite respect doesn't always work with them.
Sorry if this offends anyone, I'm just trying to be objective about this, and this trend is what all the statistics about shootings demonstrates.
Of course, with black people in particular, police are more likely to harass them or shoot them. But black people have it rough in all sorts of ways in America (less so than decades ago, thankfully), and I think it's also important for these parents to mention something else to their young sons. As a young black male, their odds of getting shot by another young black male, for no real reason, are about a hundred times better than their odds of getting shot by a cop. So they should make clear, be careful of the police, but if you treat the police correctly they will respond within the law. But be really careful of other young black men, because they won't hold back, and polite respect doesn't always work with them.
Sorry if this offends anyone, I'm just trying to be objective about this, and this trend is what all the statistics about shootings demonstrates.
8
Sorry if this offends you, but the often repeated line that blacks are the victims of crime by other blacks at 93% is never followed up with the statistic that whites are the victims of crimes by other whites 89% of the time. Convenient to mention one statistic and totally ignore the other just as important and pertinent statistic not only perpetuates the stereotype but is actually corrosive to the debate.
10
I'm curious about how you arrived at "But be really careful of other young black men, because they won't hold back, and polite respect doesn't always work with them" from "As a young black male, their odds of getting shot by another young black male, for no real reason, are about hundred times better than their odds of getting shot by a cop." This seems to be a bit of leap to me. Perhaps the real problem is the abundance of firearms, dearth of solid living wage jobs, and lack of respect given to young men, particularly in more impoverished parts of town.
I am also confused by "if you treat the police correctly they will respond within the law." Has that not been demonstrated to be somewhat false by recent shootings of unarmed men?
I am also confused by "if you treat the police correctly they will respond within the law." Has that not been demonstrated to be somewhat false by recent shootings of unarmed men?
5
You're missing the point, Jack from Illinois. The race of the victim and perpetrator may match in the overwhelming majority of cases, but the *rate* of violent crime is much higher among blacks than whites. Pointing out that most white murder victims are murdered by other whites is irrelevant to the fact that young black men are vastly more likely to be murdered than their white counterparts, and that the killers are almost always other young black men (and not police officers).
10
I am white and the father of 2 sons now in their late 20's. Among the my many conversations with them was one with instructions on how to behave when encounted by the Police. Be courteous, say only what needs to be said and call me. It worked fine. They attended High school in Manhattan. One is a Police Officer in California and one is here at the NYPD like his father before him. Responsable parenting requires this to be discussed just as conversations about drugs, sex and college are. Dont make this a race issue. It is'nt, but rather a values issue.
42
I would hope the conversation would start with "Do not commit any crimes and if you do, when approached by the police, do not resist arrest. Comply with all orders of the police."
All of the recent high profile cases (Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.) could have ended peacefully if the perpetrators had listened and obeyed the officers' commands.
All of the recent high profile cases (Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.) could have ended peacefully if the perpetrators had listened and obeyed the officers' commands.
61
They could have also ended relatively peacefully if the police had not ratcheted up their response.
Let us be clear: it takes two to tangle and fights will escalate to the most powerful weapon available.
Let us be clear: it takes two to tangle and fights will escalate to the most powerful weapon available.
9
Dear Paul,
Generally true but not always. The high profile case that doesn't fit this pattern is that of Tamir Rice. He was shot in less than two seconds after the cop car screeched to a stop in front of him; not enough time to be commanded to do anything or follow orders. He was shot because he was a young black kid with what looked like a gun, but what 911 operators had been told was probably a toy. A white kid wouldn't have been shot; probably tackled but not shot within two seconds.
However, most of the time, obeying orders with respect will prevent a violent outcome. And in the majority of high profile cases, the victims had a part in bringing it on themselves, like Sean Bell, who claimed to have a gun in his car, and then sideswiped a cop with his car, triggering a hail of bullets.
Generally true but not always. The high profile case that doesn't fit this pattern is that of Tamir Rice. He was shot in less than two seconds after the cop car screeched to a stop in front of him; not enough time to be commanded to do anything or follow orders. He was shot because he was a young black kid with what looked like a gun, but what 911 operators had been told was probably a toy. A white kid wouldn't have been shot; probably tackled but not shot within two seconds.
However, most of the time, obeying orders with respect will prevent a violent outcome. And in the majority of high profile cases, the victims had a part in bringing it on themselves, like Sean Bell, who claimed to have a gun in his car, and then sideswiped a cop with his car, triggering a hail of bullets.
6
Ratcheted up the response? How would you respond if someone over 6 feet tall and weighing 300 pounds, who had just assaulted a store owner, tried to take your gun, then came charging after you?
I am a fairly young (like, teenage years) white girl. This video was amazing. I didn't see strangers telling me something I don't have to worry about; I saw relatable people. We are, after all, human, and any human story is every human's story. You may tell me, "What do you mean? You'll never have to have the black American talk! You'll be fine!"
You are right about that: I have a much lower chance of getting "unjustly harassed" by the police. White people in general don't have this problem. And to all black people...
"I'm sorry. If there is anything we can do in return for your mistreatment, I would be glad to help."
REALLY. I hope that this type of video will not be necessary in less than twenty years, at the most.
You are right about that: I have a much lower chance of getting "unjustly harassed" by the police. White people in general don't have this problem. And to all black people...
"I'm sorry. If there is anything we can do in return for your mistreatment, I would be glad to help."
REALLY. I hope that this type of video will not be necessary in less than twenty years, at the most.
17
I have 4 daughters and 3 nephews.
It pains me that there are conversations I have not had and will not need to have with my daughters that I have had with my nephews.
All of my nephews have encountered law enforcment in one way or another but none of my girls. Coincidence?
It is definitely true "Raise our Daughters and Teach our Sons"!!!!
It pains me that there are conversations I have not had and will not need to have with my daughters that I have had with my nephews.
All of my nephews have encountered law enforcment in one way or another but none of my girls. Coincidence?
It is definitely true "Raise our Daughters and Teach our Sons"!!!!
5
We should all have this conversation with our children and the children we know.
No matter what race they are.
No matter what race they are.
10
I'm white and I've had that conversation with my son. As parents we're always scared about something with our children. But since I'm white I am not mortified that something fatal could happen to my son as a black parent would have, especially in light with the current events.
16
Wonderful, moving, but very troubling video. Basically all of these parents were explaining to their son's that despite the protections in the 14th amendment, despite the guarantees of liberty in the Bill of Rights, despite all the civil rights laws passed in the last hundred years that they do not apply to you in the same way that they apply to white folks.
This new "second class citizenship" is taken as a given because no matter how many laws are passed police invariably exercise a significant degree of discretion and they don't make the same choices and assumptions about a black man as they do a white one.
These conclusions are unassailable. There are countless studies, endless stories of individual encounters, even videos that support the fact that treatment by police is differentiated because of race.
So for me the question isn't what we tell our kids, it's what white people tell their kids about the world that they have created? Does this represent their values? Is this how they want their children to be treated? Does this represent what they want their political representatives to continue?
There is another path and there are clear alternatives, but someone has to be willing to walk that path. America needs a spiritual reawakening so that hopefully, some day we might share the very same stories about our children.
This new "second class citizenship" is taken as a given because no matter how many laws are passed police invariably exercise a significant degree of discretion and they don't make the same choices and assumptions about a black man as they do a white one.
These conclusions are unassailable. There are countless studies, endless stories of individual encounters, even videos that support the fact that treatment by police is differentiated because of race.
So for me the question isn't what we tell our kids, it's what white people tell their kids about the world that they have created? Does this represent their values? Is this how they want their children to be treated? Does this represent what they want their political representatives to continue?
There is another path and there are clear alternatives, but someone has to be willing to walk that path. America needs a spiritual reawakening so that hopefully, some day we might share the very same stories about our children.
24
Jim Crow is alive and well. But it's Jim Crow III, or, perhaps, Jim Crow 3.0. Same guy, different generation.
7
I am a white male and consider myself quite liberal. I grew up in NYC and between the ages of 13 and 27 I was mugged and assaulted 6 times, including a home invasion where I was maced and tied up along with my then girlfriend, and a robbery where I was punched in the face so hard that it cracked the floor of my eye socket. All of these incidents were carried out by black men. It took a while to find the compassion to begin letting go and moving on from the anger, fear and resentment, and I have to admit the my guard still goes up now and then. Let's not pretend that there are plenty of crimes being perpetrated by young black men and that's part of the reason they're being engaged by law enforcement. That being said, what about the real criminals, the white power elite that make billions of dollars working the system in their board meeting and country clubs, with conscious, deliberate and planned racism, sexism and oppression of anything that is not white, male and in the club? If these criminals were reigned in, and we had a more beneficent culture that cared about people over profit, resources would flow to support impoverished communities and the cycle of deprivation, desperation and violence could start to unwind. I have no doubt that the young black men that brutalized me were not happy well adjusted people looking forward to a bright happy future. These were scared, frustrated and angry people who were desperate and deluded enough to do the horrible things they did.
14
We are not the first society to create and maintain an underclass, but we may be the first to allow them firearms, automobiles, and smart phones. So, we have a problem.
Another aspect of the problem is that the police have been tasked, often without their own realization, to keep the underclass.... well, under. And they, even more than the rest of the 99%, face the consequences.
Another aspect of the problem is that the police have been tasked, often without their own realization, to keep the underclass.... well, under. And they, even more than the rest of the 99%, face the consequences.
7
My mom gave me "the talk" and I'm white. Don't give cops a reason. Starting your kid's life with a giant chip on his shoulder isn't going to get him anywhere in the real world.
42
Great video. Made me cry.
7
The “Conversation” to guard against being lynched in the public square or shot on a public street, has been going on in America in Black families and communities for generations. And often times to no avail, as past and current events have shown. In America, Black children, and especially Black boys, have effectively been robbed of their God given right to be children…another burden that White parents and their children do not have to bare.
15
It is truly sad that LWB & male is still much a heavy taxed and deadly way to live in all of the US, from San Diego to Northern Maine, from Blaine, WA to The Florida Keys. ABC did a report on it 20 years ago and I can attest, it is still a fact of life. Judges in some districts even tell traffic violators that being Black is just cause to begin any action by police, even in Beaverton, OR. Black males are being stopped for dirty license plates in major cities in Oregon but no one at any Judicial level in Oregon will hear much from any of the poor in all of Oregon. Judges in St Helens, OR get official recordings of their misdeeds in court changed before they submit them to review boards and no one is allowed to know anything about this.
It is all just a fact of being Black in the US. It costs the average black man 10% of his income year after year just to pay for bad tickets and the other things found in Ferguson, MO, this happens in all states. Hence I am an expat safe in SE Asia. At least I do not have to worry about every person in blue or a black robe.
It is all just a fact of being Black in the US. It costs the average black man 10% of his income year after year just to pay for bad tickets and the other things found in Ferguson, MO, this happens in all states. Hence I am an expat safe in SE Asia. At least I do not have to worry about every person in blue or a black robe.
14
It is good that you have found a better alternative. As an African-American, it was interesting how so many responses to the opinion article discussing the idea of us moving abroad told us that we should stay to fight oppression in the USA, or that moving en masse would mean that our problems travel with us. It really seemed like some commenters wanted us to remain in place, because voting with our feet would make them look bad or drain the community of resources. Just like other expats and immigrants, African-Americans have the right to move to a new country if we choose to do so.
The encouraging thing I saw in this piece was the presence of strong, involved and committed father figures counseling their sons (and hopefully their daughters). The discouraging truth is that this is somewhat of a rarity where it is needed the most, perpetuating the bad behavior that leads to profiling by stereotypes.
Patrick Moynihan was vilified in the mid-60's for pointing out that the disintegration of the family unit would inevitably lead to bad outcomes, but here we are 50 years later and his predictions were sadly prescient. If you make a child, then be a father to that child and a partner to that mother. It's not too much to ask, regardless of your economic circumstances or education.
Patrick Moynihan was vilified in the mid-60's for pointing out that the disintegration of the family unit would inevitably lead to bad outcomes, but here we are 50 years later and his predictions were sadly prescient. If you make a child, then be a father to that child and a partner to that mother. It's not too much to ask, regardless of your economic circumstances or education.
27
Thank you so much for this beautiful video.
6
The part that I found missing in these heartfelt discussions that black parents had with their sons, was the importance that law plays in our society. Without law we revert to a state of nature...not a place that we want to be. The police are "law enforcement" and the front line protecting society and should be respected for doing a difficult and dangerous job. That said, as a society we have the obligation to root out officers whose behavior is itself unlawful.
23
I have five sons, I was a cop for 26 1/2 years, I am white. I had that conversation with my sons throughout their lives. Keep your hands on the wheel, if it is nighttime, turn the interior lights on and wait for their instructions. I only worked in Black neighborhoods during my career- guess what, in 26 years, only one civilian complaint- and that by a white Jewish man who refused to produce a drivers license. I was found not guilty by the CCRB- he was found guilty by the courts.
My secret- respect, give it you usually get it. I have been stopped by some cops who are less than respectful. I don't argue with them, I give them my license, registration, insurance card and wait for the verdict. Ticket or no ticket. I usually don't get one. But throughout all police encounters, I remember what we rookies were taught- the man wearing the uniform is always right- you can always make a complaint, sue, yada yada. But get out of the contact without a problem.
Problem cops are weeded out over time. I saw some good advice in some of the comments; those comments are given by all parents- Black, White, Red and Yellow, because it is good advice to give to kids- not because cops are inherently bad and can be expected to automatically abuse or shoot you, but because all kids tend to get into situations and you want them to get out of it with the least amount of trouble they can.
My secret- respect, give it you usually get it. I have been stopped by some cops who are less than respectful. I don't argue with them, I give them my license, registration, insurance card and wait for the verdict. Ticket or no ticket. I usually don't get one. But throughout all police encounters, I remember what we rookies were taught- the man wearing the uniform is always right- you can always make a complaint, sue, yada yada. But get out of the contact without a problem.
Problem cops are weeded out over time. I saw some good advice in some of the comments; those comments are given by all parents- Black, White, Red and Yellow, because it is good advice to give to kids- not because cops are inherently bad and can be expected to automatically abuse or shoot you, but because all kids tend to get into situations and you want them to get out of it with the least amount of trouble they can.
104
You sound like a good man and a good cop. The problem is that too many of your colleagues are not respectful, and are not weeded out soon enough. And in the meantime, they have great power and some of them can get away, literally, with murder.
10
Why some people are so quick to dismiss the need of such talk. Can’t you see why? I was born in Angola where I lived until I was 14, I moved Portugal and lived there for decade in between I spent a semester studying is Westchester, NY (2011). And I have had contact with race relations in Africa, Europe and US and I’ve been overlooked or misunderstood many times because of my skin color in different occasions, including interpellations by the police and I’m sure white people don’t go through all that trouble (bar when they encounter an officer in Africa looking for some bribe money). Racism was not suppose to be alive and kicking in 2015 but it is.
6
I met a Nigerian graduate student who studied in Moscow! And then, he studied in New Jersey. I asked him how did he like Russia compare to the U.S., and he said Russia, much better, because he didn't experience racism. Well, the answer surprised me, this was in the eighties nineties when you think of Russia as not so great! But US is worse, for him. Also, I know a little of the wonderful Russian culture and he showed me pictures of apartments that were small and not too fancy, but filled with friendly, unpretentious people drinking wine from little juices glasses and apparently, not racist. One story.
1
Whites have conversations too you know. My father told me at the young age of eleven never to run from the police. "Anyone who runs becomes a target," he said. "Anytime a police officer stops you, call him sir, and be polite." When I started driving, he informed me that police officers routinely draw their weapons during traffic stops. "Don't panic," he said, "Sit still, keep your hands on the wheel, give the cop anything he wants. You can always argue about it in court."
Regarding my peers my father gave me the simple yet sage advice, "Don't do anything stupid. And when your friends act stupid, just walk away."
So far, it's worked out pretty well.
Regarding my peers my father gave me the simple yet sage advice, "Don't do anything stupid. And when your friends act stupid, just walk away."
So far, it's worked out pretty well.
85
Exactly what my cop dad taught me and my brother. And it makes sense In general, the civilian population has no idea just how nervous cops are when they stop some one. Cops have the right to go home after their tour, in one piece. Blue lives matter too.
28
Same conversation my black father (and other elders) had with me. Were I white, I'd have it too.
2
Many of these comments show that there is still a lot of work to be done.
25
And many white officers are targeted as being "racist" just because they are officers and are white. It goes both ways.
16
As much as there is a culture disconnect with whites toward blacks the same rings true for the reverse. I'm white as rice and when I was a kid my parents taught me to respect people of authority especially the police. If they say jump you respond "how high sir". It's simple but thats the deal. Be smart and swallow your pride - I had to! Granted it is a little tougher for blacks but the "conversation" has taken place with every white parent I know that has common sense. It starts with RESPECT!
40
You're blind if you think it's the same. "Granted it is a little tougher" don't cut it. You don't seek justice, you seek excuses.
15
It's not just "a little tougher" for blacks. The same encounter with a policeman that may perturb a white person may end up in death for a black person. Anecdotes and statistics bear this out. You, sir, are simply clueless.
16
The problem is that RESPECT should go in both directions and in many cases in just doesn't.
7
I don't want to diminish the black or brown experience in any way. As an Asian American woman, I cannot speak for that experience but I cannot deny that I see it happening. The police have a very difficult job before them and I respect that. Still, I feel that police culture has shifted and they are no longer our friends and neighbors after they put on their uniform. The more they get their back up over race relations, the worse they seem to act. That being said, we have told our kids that they do EVERYTHING an officer tells them to do. When that officer is present, he has the power, the gun, the authority. After the officer is gone, then you can report it to anyone who will listen. It's not a black-white issue, or even right-wrong. It's an issue of power at that moment and the person with the gun has the power.
We want our kids to live and respect authority and we want a government and police force that respects our kids's lives. Still, we have our eyes wide open about the reality of life for the police and our kids. Educating your kids on how to survive is a smart move, not a cynical one.
We want our kids to live and respect authority and we want a government and police force that respects our kids's lives. Still, we have our eyes wide open about the reality of life for the police and our kids. Educating your kids on how to survive is a smart move, not a cynical one.
31
Riding a subway in Chicago, I saw an officer get on the train in what was a mostly black neighborhood. He had his gun hanging unclipped and immediately began harassing a young black man, asking for his ID when he had done nothing wrong. He took the man off the train and some strangers got off the train also, protesting about the unlawful arrest. A man in the back of the train berated the driver for the next few stops for leaving him and not stepping in.
One summer I find myself in southeastern Washington State with a car full of friends, all of us Native American, the young men all have long hair. We saw a police officer standing outside and asked him for directions to a high school where there was a local basketball tournament. He gave us directions to go to a Native gift shop on the freeway and then to go back to where we came from.
These are common occurrences when you are a person of color dealing with law enforcement. This is not Selma, but we still have a long way to go and it starts with being aware at how people are treated differently because of their race by armed officers in power (who won't get in trouble if they kill you.)
One summer I find myself in southeastern Washington State with a car full of friends, all of us Native American, the young men all have long hair. We saw a police officer standing outside and asked him for directions to a high school where there was a local basketball tournament. He gave us directions to go to a Native gift shop on the freeway and then to go back to where we came from.
These are common occurrences when you are a person of color dealing with law enforcement. This is not Selma, but we still have a long way to go and it starts with being aware at how people are treated differently because of their race by armed officers in power (who won't get in trouble if they kill you.)
23
I wish that I had someone to give me a "talk" about how to deal with the Black students in my school that would (as a group) routinely select random white kids to beat up - but of course no one dared to take black on white racism head-on. Which is not to say that I am unsympathetic to the struggles of the black community with the police.
95
It is wrong to beat others up. However, black children and adults in the USA typically pay the price for their misbehavior, and usually receive harsher punsishments than their white counterparts for the same misbehavior.
1
Just a friendly reminder, racism is not a feeling, it's a system. In the US, blacks CANNOT be racists, because the system does not reward them for skin color. Black on white violence is not racism, it's rank bigotry of the worst sort that should be punished and condemned; but it isn't racism.
In Stamford the other day, a white elderly man walked out of McDonalds with a coffee, and accidentally spilled it on a young man. The young man stabbed the elderly man who was on his way to work, to death. Someone should have given that elderly man a strong talking to before he went to work.
When I taught school, a well dressed woman brought her son into class late, they were both very polite. Within an hour when the young man was flashing signs out the window of my class, I asked why his mother didn't know he was a thug. He told me to get out of his face.
I wish my mother had talked to me before she sent me off to teach.
When I taught school, a well dressed woman brought her son into class late, they were both very polite. Within an hour when the young man was flashing signs out the window of my class, I asked why his mother didn't know he was a thug. He told me to get out of his face.
I wish my mother had talked to me before she sent me off to teach.
23
Teaching our children to be safe is one of the most important responsibilities of a parent. Most of these life skills are simply common sense. For instance, physically engaging an armed police officer is never a good idea.
18
Cue the comments from white people claiming that this isn't the reality.
As a white women in a blue state with bi-racial grandchildren in a red state, I've had a pretty good dose of the reality people of color face and just being a bystander is horrifying. I honestly don't know how they get up day after day and face a world that treats them the so badly.
Nothing they do is good enough, no job they hold, no amount of education, no amount of time doing volunteer work or going to church. All they have to do is enter a store, walk down a street etc. and they're viewed with disdain or suspicion.
My beautiful grandchildren have been subjected to dirty looks and mean spirited comments from birth and those looks and comments come from people like the ones posting here.
As a white women in a blue state with bi-racial grandchildren in a red state, I've had a pretty good dose of the reality people of color face and just being a bystander is horrifying. I honestly don't know how they get up day after day and face a world that treats them the so badly.
Nothing they do is good enough, no job they hold, no amount of education, no amount of time doing volunteer work or going to church. All they have to do is enter a store, walk down a street etc. and they're viewed with disdain or suspicion.
My beautiful grandchildren have been subjected to dirty looks and mean spirited comments from birth and those looks and comments come from people like the ones posting here.
32
I believe some people miss the point of this video entirely, this is not about common sense advice you tell your children about conduct with the police. This is about how white supremacy must be factored into your interactions with the police. A white man and a black man are often approached differently by the police, even if their conduct is the same, and that can have deadly consequences.
Jonathan Ferrell was gunned down by a police officer after he went running to them after an accident; there would less a chance of that happening if he were white. Tamir Rice was gunned down by a police officer less than two seconds after the police got out the car, the police described him as an adult in his early 20s, he was 12-years old. The "talk" that some of you ignore is the fact that there is a difference in how people are treated, this is due to racism, and unfortunately, this is a fact young black men need to know.
Trying to bring up about absent fathers, black-on-black violence (white-on-white violence is a "problem" too if you're going to make the case), or personal responsibility is nothing more than a racist attempt to obfuscate the big problem: law enforcement must be reformed and racism within the institution needs to be dismantled.
Jonathan Ferrell was gunned down by a police officer after he went running to them after an accident; there would less a chance of that happening if he were white. Tamir Rice was gunned down by a police officer less than two seconds after the police got out the car, the police described him as an adult in his early 20s, he was 12-years old. The "talk" that some of you ignore is the fact that there is a difference in how people are treated, this is due to racism, and unfortunately, this is a fact young black men need to know.
Trying to bring up about absent fathers, black-on-black violence (white-on-white violence is a "problem" too if you're going to make the case), or personal responsibility is nothing more than a racist attempt to obfuscate the big problem: law enforcement must be reformed and racism within the institution needs to be dismantled.
34
You be right!
The gist here is to be safe.
Not only parents of black sons have and have had this problem.
As a white kid in the South Bronx, in the 1950s, 60s my parents instructed us how to act in order to protect ourselves. Understand it was blacks we saw as the danger.
My brother and I were very light blond, so we were told to cover our heads to avoid being too conspicuous.
We did not venture into certain neighborhoods, such as Harlem.
We did go to CCNY so we had to go through Harlem to get to school, but we never varied our route from the safest route from the subway at 125th St. or 145th St.
More careful at night, anywhere.
Respect for authority figures, especially the police.
I am just saying, it's not just a black thing, but, I do recognize the especial problem that blacks in the country are having and I deplore it.
Not only parents of black sons have and have had this problem.
As a white kid in the South Bronx, in the 1950s, 60s my parents instructed us how to act in order to protect ourselves. Understand it was blacks we saw as the danger.
My brother and I were very light blond, so we were told to cover our heads to avoid being too conspicuous.
We did not venture into certain neighborhoods, such as Harlem.
We did go to CCNY so we had to go through Harlem to get to school, but we never varied our route from the safest route from the subway at 125th St. or 145th St.
More careful at night, anywhere.
Respect for authority figures, especially the police.
I am just saying, it's not just a black thing, but, I do recognize the especial problem that blacks in the country are having and I deplore it.
11
As a petite, (white) woman I've also had to take safety precautions all my life but it's ridiculous to compare what we've been through with what these people are dealing with.
White people have to fear criminals, we generally don't have to fear the police as well or "law abiding" citizens who think that carrying a gun makes them the equivalent of law enforcement.
White people have to fear criminals, we generally don't have to fear the police as well or "law abiding" citizens who think that carrying a gun makes them the equivalent of law enforcement.
12
An extraordinary and moving film.
A rare piece of work, and so simple.
What the current majority of Americans don't apparently get is that we're next. We have allowed, permitted, and even encouraged the growth of a virtual police state. All in the name of our supposed "security."
We as a country need to stand with each and every one of the parents in this film. They are our neighbors. Our countrymen. And our fellow citizens.
If we stand together. If we act together. If our democracy becomes a vibrant, moving, thinking, and acting vehicle again, we can put this kind of prejudice behind us, bit by bit.
A rare piece of work, and so simple.
What the current majority of Americans don't apparently get is that we're next. We have allowed, permitted, and even encouraged the growth of a virtual police state. All in the name of our supposed "security."
We as a country need to stand with each and every one of the parents in this film. They are our neighbors. Our countrymen. And our fellow citizens.
If we stand together. If we act together. If our democracy becomes a vibrant, moving, thinking, and acting vehicle again, we can put this kind of prejudice behind us, bit by bit.
9
Where did black parents (and the press) get the idea that black parents are the only ones having this conversation with their teenage sons? As a white teenager and young adult, I was stopped by the police several times for no apparent reason and asked to provide my documents (if driving) or explain my intentions (if loitering). My parents had instructed me beforehand exactly how to conduct myself in the presence of the police: be polite, cooperate with everything (no matter how unfair it feels). Oh, and yeah, don't try to grab their gun. Now middle-aged, I have had this same talk with my sons.
26
Don't forget to talk to your daughters as well.
4
I think most families have a similar "talk" with their children, it's just not framed so melodramatically. It usually happens after a kid's first conflict with an adult that is not their parent. Children are told that if an adult they know or one in uniform tells them something, then follow instructions. If it seems unfair, then inform your parents.
I admit that the conversation may have been starker for some fifty years ago. But given that the advice proffered by those in the video is not exactly uniform, that suggests this "talk" is a meme constructed by the media. At least a little bit.
I admit that the conversation may have been starker for some fifty years ago. But given that the advice proffered by those in the video is not exactly uniform, that suggests this "talk" is a meme constructed by the media. At least a little bit.
6
I hope there will also be an op-doc on "a conversation with my black daughter" where parents (!) are shown advising their daughter to complete her education and make something of herself and not have children with (or just steer clear of) jailbirds and men who have spawned double digits of children with multiple women. Otherwise, I can only conclude that all blacks are male and the lives of black women/girls don't matter.
61
Black parents routinely have that conversation with their daughters.
One reason I know that is because I've read articles about it in the NYT.
One reason I know that is because I've read articles about it in the NYT.
1
By the way, neither of this short video's co-creators is African American. This is another example of how the "conversation about race" industry benefits many white and privileged practitioners.
20
My white Jewish school teacher mother from Brooklyn gave me, a nice white Jewish boy, "the talk" first I when became a teenager then again at 17 after obtained a drivers license about how to interact with the police. Be polite, keep your hands where they can be seen, do not reach down for anything, do not get out of the car and run toward or away.
55
Take your kids to visit the police station. Meet police officers in action. Protecting us. Teach your kids to be respectful. Or instead teach them to hate and distrust the police. Your choice.
52
Way to blame the victims of profiling.
18
jeoffrey - I don't see any blame here. I think this is actually a pretty good idea.
The police chief in Los Angeles has done some great community outreach events. Something like this could have the same positive impact.
The police chief in Los Angeles has done some great community outreach events. Something like this could have the same positive impact.
7
Joel--yeah, the Ferguson cops would have really welcomed that kind of outreach. Not.
12
How come we don't hear anything about the conversation black parents have with their sons (and daughters) about avoiding violence from adolescents of their own race? Certainly this conversation happens quite a lot, and by excluding it from the narrative, the kind of people who make videos like this --one of whom is a non-African American from wealthy Newton, MA -- are presenting a distorted reality. In this alternate realty, not only are police bad, there is no sense of why they are needed to protect lives in the black community.
103
The video is not about bad police; it's about teaching your child how to respond to police when stopped.
4
The only thing black parents have to say to their sons is, "don't resist arrest, don't try to fight the police."
43
And don't get angry for getting stopped for offenses like driving/breathing while black.
13
Actually, none of the "advice" from posters here can mitigate the fact that you are vulnerable to police brutality simply for existing while black. That is the bottom line, and the reality.
17
I'm an affluent white person with two boys (18/21) and it's good advice to keep your hands on the steering wheel or otherwise visible no matter your color (or age). The police are in harms way everyday and the more you can do to show them that you're not a threat to their safety, the more likely you are to have a low-key encounter. And yeah, sadly, this goes double for minorities.
35
I had conversations with ALL of my children telling them to Listen to Police Officers and do EXACTLY as they were told. That is the conversation ALL parents should be having with their kids.
22
Yeh boss!
My son is turning 16 in two days and he is turning into a fine young man. I had THAT talk with him when he hit his teens that people will start to see him as a threat, often for just being.
And over the last few years I've used my own life experiences to teach how to deal with authority, on how to behave in public and work settings. Especially to help develop his sixth sense awareness that all Black men should have. Even though he is biracial ,that doesn't change the fact that some will see him as a Black man and nothing else.
We live in Baltimore and of course it's a tale of two worlds, to say the least, and I have ,ad nauseam, informed him of his rights as a teen and what he should do if affronted by the police. And yes, sadly, he has been asked to be searched several times, but ,to my great joy, he stated that they couldn't without his consent and he stood up for his 4th amendment rights.
Knowledge to build awareness is key, experience is a valuable asset to be used liberally because the struggle continues.
And over the last few years I've used my own life experiences to teach how to deal with authority, on how to behave in public and work settings. Especially to help develop his sixth sense awareness that all Black men should have. Even though he is biracial ,that doesn't change the fact that some will see him as a Black man and nothing else.
We live in Baltimore and of course it's a tale of two worlds, to say the least, and I have ,ad nauseam, informed him of his rights as a teen and what he should do if affronted by the police. And yes, sadly, he has been asked to be searched several times, but ,to my great joy, he stated that they couldn't without his consent and he stood up for his 4th amendment rights.
Knowledge to build awareness is key, experience is a valuable asset to be used liberally because the struggle continues.
7
That video hurt my heart. G-d look over these families, and all families with boys. Having to say these things to a child reflects such crushing injustice.
6
To even post a comment that doesn't genuflect to the prevailing mood and message of the article and videos, one likely is asking to suffer severe criticism. But being one who generally goes where angels fear to tread, I have to post a couple of my reflections on this.
First, this is NOT 1968. Despite the constant carping, huge changes have been accomplished in terms of civil rights since then. Today there is not a lunch counter where black cannot sit and order. There is not an election that goes by in which blacks are unable to vote. There is not a bridge in America that blacks cannot cross. At law, the civil rights movement and the civil rights laws have achieved impressive results.
Second, if there are behaviors in police that do these things against INNOCENT people, they must be changed/sanctioned - and that quite quickly. But Ferguson is not Selma. The young man killed there was not seeking a hot lunch at a lunch counter but was violating the law by walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic and then resisting the police. All that was after he had committed a strong-armed robbery of a convenience store and assaulted another minority proprietor. Not Selma.
Third, the people of Selma did NOT loot a single store, did not burn a single building, did not shoot with intent to kill police officers.
This is NOT about civil rights. This is about social acceptance, and that is a harder nut to crack. We need to dig our heels in and achieve that too.
First, this is NOT 1968. Despite the constant carping, huge changes have been accomplished in terms of civil rights since then. Today there is not a lunch counter where black cannot sit and order. There is not an election that goes by in which blacks are unable to vote. There is not a bridge in America that blacks cannot cross. At law, the civil rights movement and the civil rights laws have achieved impressive results.
Second, if there are behaviors in police that do these things against INNOCENT people, they must be changed/sanctioned - and that quite quickly. But Ferguson is not Selma. The young man killed there was not seeking a hot lunch at a lunch counter but was violating the law by walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic and then resisting the police. All that was after he had committed a strong-armed robbery of a convenience store and assaulted another minority proprietor. Not Selma.
Third, the people of Selma did NOT loot a single store, did not burn a single building, did not shoot with intent to kill police officers.
This is NOT about civil rights. This is about social acceptance, and that is a harder nut to crack. We need to dig our heels in and achieve that too.
150
You really don't pay attention do you? Take a look at maps where slavery was once legal and where voter suppression efforts are now underway. You'll see quite a similarity.
I'm so tired of white people claiming that they know what life is like for people of color. I'm as white as the driven snow by the way.
I'm so tired of white people claiming that they know what life is like for people of color. I'm as white as the driven snow by the way.
18
How soon they forget. MLK Jr was regularly called a "race-agitator" and troublemaker by the press. And the Selma police didn't give a damn how polite and peaceful protestors were--they saw the latter as a threat and treated them as such. If you are going to rewrite history, you might want to learn it first.
20
He was not blocking traffic. But he was jaywalking. Have you ever been harassed by the police for jaywalking?
9
Anyone - black, white, Asian, Latino, or Martian - who fails to have a conversation with their child (especially their sons) about how to avoid unpleasant interactions with law enforcement officers is not doing their job. This is not just a problem for African-American parents and kids.
28
Regardless of race, this is how EVERY parents discussion should go regarding the police.
DO
Say Yes sir, No sir when addressing them
Exactly what they order you to do, when they tell you to do it
Keep your hands where they can see them.
DONT
Go for their gun
Attack the officer
Make sudden moves
DO
Say Yes sir, No sir when addressing them
Exactly what they order you to do, when they tell you to do it
Keep your hands where they can see them.
DONT
Go for their gun
Attack the officer
Make sudden moves
37
I'd be curious to know what these parents would tell the children of the Oakland mother who was killed by a young Black thug a few days ago. She was caught in the middle of a gun fight over nothing, trying to get her kids away from harm. Unfortunately, OPD was not present.
I live next door to Oakland, California, I grew up there and moved. Every boy, Black, green or white, had the conversation about how to behave if you got stopped by the cops when I was growing up. So far this year, there have been about 19 homicides in Oakland. All the victims apparently Black, all the suspects apparently Black. The above mentioned mother, just the latest. There have been no protests concerning these murders.
I'm going to speculate that all the parents in the video (which I could not get to run) also tell their children to stay away from thugs with guns. I'll bet they spend more time talking about that than they do about cops. Will one of the upcoming Op-Docs cover that topic? Somehow, I doubt that we will see such a 'conversation' in the NY Times.
It would be interesting though, wouldn't it?
I live next door to Oakland, California, I grew up there and moved. Every boy, Black, green or white, had the conversation about how to behave if you got stopped by the cops when I was growing up. So far this year, there have been about 19 homicides in Oakland. All the victims apparently Black, all the suspects apparently Black. The above mentioned mother, just the latest. There have been no protests concerning these murders.
I'm going to speculate that all the parents in the video (which I could not get to run) also tell their children to stay away from thugs with guns. I'll bet they spend more time talking about that than they do about cops. Will one of the upcoming Op-Docs cover that topic? Somehow, I doubt that we will see such a 'conversation' in the NY Times.
It would be interesting though, wouldn't it?
137
Honestly, what a breath of fresh air.
Thanks!
Thanks!
2
Police officers should be held to a higher standard of conduct than thugs. If you have repeatedly harrassed by the police for no reason, who do you call when a crime has been committed? Thugs who are apprehended are likely to face charges and convictions, overzealous police officers are more likely to harm others and get away with it.
5
Black people actually prefer to be killed by their own kind (note sarcasm).
This is about one specific issue. These parents are actually teaching their children to be respectful and to be aware during a police encounter. One of the biggest white complaints is that black people don't know how to behave. Well, you've just witnessed something to shatter that stereotype: Black people being good parents. Yet, still, you find fault. What's to condemn?
Your children can sing racist songs on a bus (OU) or sell and use drugs at elite universities (Wesleyan), but black parents teaching their children comportment is criticized. (See how I conflated unrelated topics. Two can play that game.)
This is about one specific issue. These parents are actually teaching their children to be respectful and to be aware during a police encounter. One of the biggest white complaints is that black people don't know how to behave. Well, you've just witnessed something to shatter that stereotype: Black people being good parents. Yet, still, you find fault. What's to condemn?
Your children can sing racist songs on a bus (OU) or sell and use drugs at elite universities (Wesleyan), but black parents teaching their children comportment is criticized. (See how I conflated unrelated topics. Two can play that game.)
6
Every parent should teach their children how to respect the police and to comply with their requests and demands. We as a society have authorized them to act on our behalf to maintain law and order. Therefore they deserve our respect. In Ferguson, this lesson is not taught. Rather, I suspect the teaching is that the police do not deserve respect and that they are an enemy.
25
Missed the part where the Ferguson cops and city administration regularly harassed and fined black citizens for things white citizens got away with, did you?
18
Regardless of how we feel about the police and their actions towards us, we must respect them as authorities chosen by society to maintain law and order. You seem to think that our opinions and actions should be based on our feelings of fairness in our interactions with the police. This should not be the case. We have a civic obligation to respect the police. A similar idea is that we should respect the office of the President, regardless of how we personally feel about the person currently serving in that office.
4
It's fairly straight forward. Keep yourselves away from things that seem like criminal behavior and don't hang out in areas where there is frequent crime. Worked for me and all my relatives... Some was taught and some learned.
18
White guy here, the only discrimination I faced is for being over 50 when job hunting. I sure that over 50 women and PoC also have the same problem.
If you think white males have it as bad or worse than any other group in this country you are either a lier or stupid.
If you think white males have it as bad or worse than any other group in this country you are either a lier or stupid.
22
When we were starting to drive my father of five told us repeatedly, "When an officer stops you keep your hands on the wheel and do not move those hands unless told to by the officer. Ever.
I often wondered why my father drummed this into all five of us.
Then one night my sister and I and another friend were stopped in our neighborhood driving from our law school to a bar.
I counted four cop cars pulled all around us. Guns and rifles pulled and aimed. Spotlights in our eyes.
My younger sister started to cry and I told her to remember what dad said.
I was the driver and one of the officers said "There are several guns pointed at your head. Don't do anything stupid."
Then I heard myself whisper to all in the car, "Keep you hands where the officers can see them. Look them in the eyes. Only move when asked."
Turns out we were a "mistake." Guns and rifles were put away. Spotlights were dimmed.
Eventually we were allowed to go on our way.
White parents like all parents who love their children are wise to have "the talk."
There were only white Irish American kids in that car that night but my father's words saved all of our lives.
We never told my dad about the incident but as a law professor I give "the talk" every semester.
I often wondered why my father drummed this into all five of us.
Then one night my sister and I and another friend were stopped in our neighborhood driving from our law school to a bar.
I counted four cop cars pulled all around us. Guns and rifles pulled and aimed. Spotlights in our eyes.
My younger sister started to cry and I told her to remember what dad said.
I was the driver and one of the officers said "There are several guns pointed at your head. Don't do anything stupid."
Then I heard myself whisper to all in the car, "Keep you hands where the officers can see them. Look them in the eyes. Only move when asked."
Turns out we were a "mistake." Guns and rifles were put away. Spotlights were dimmed.
Eventually we were allowed to go on our way.
White parents like all parents who love their children are wise to have "the talk."
There were only white Irish American kids in that car that night but my father's words saved all of our lives.
We never told my dad about the incident but as a law professor I give "the talk" every semester.
83
Do you think the police would have be so professional had all of you in the group been black males?
18
You do realize that if you and your friends had been black the outcome could have been very different, even with the same set of facts? And that if the police had assaulted you, there would have been no consequences?
8
When I was a teenager, my parents told me two things about the police and the law:
1) if I am ever approached by an officer, do whatever he or she says. Don't try to act cool, but be an obedient "nerd."
2) if they ever heard of me having a trouble with the police, they would support the police fully because I would have acted in a way that shamed my family.
That is an example of parents acting responsibly. This video is an example of parents who play the victim card because they want to have society hand them things. Sorry, but I don't respect them.
1) if I am ever approached by an officer, do whatever he or she says. Don't try to act cool, but be an obedient "nerd."
2) if they ever heard of me having a trouble with the police, they would support the police fully because I would have acted in a way that shamed my family.
That is an example of parents acting responsibly. This video is an example of parents who play the victim card because they want to have society hand them things. Sorry, but I don't respect them.
55
Way to miss the point. As a white guy, it's unlikely that you would ever be stopped by the police just for driving or walking around.
17
You don't respect them for teaching their children how to behave when confronted by a police officer? I don't understand.
8
Why, pray tell, are non-black people offended that we are having these talks with our children? The stated reasons are that others -- namely whites, the disabled, gays and lesbians who are not black, etc -- are also roughed up and treated badly by law enforcement. Then the answer is simple. Learn from our lessons and take the same precautions. From what source comes the offense that we want to protect our own families and ourselves? Are we yet again unworthy? Is it that because others have similar experiences that we are somehow precluded from saying that we are singled out? Even if that were true (which it is not) we would still be smart to do these things. How about allowing us to take care ourselves without interference?
15
I don't believe that non-black people are offended...not sure where you are getting that from. I think people are just throwing in their "two cents" about situations that happened to them....I think they are saying that everyone, white or black, should comply with the orders of the police. Instead of dividing the world into "black" and "non-black" and "allowing us to take care of ourselves" you should take some comfort that you are perceived as an American, first, and that other Americans are telling you they have the same problems and issues and risks. They are (probably) aware that the "black" American community faces this problem on a larger scale than they do....but they want to report that they have the same problem.
5
As an immigrant from India that looked like an african american / hispanic
to the average police officer I was advised by friends to obey the police
officer, not make sudden movements and speak respectfully if ever
stopped while driving. The fear of being shot made me follow their advice
without questions.
I was stopped about 4 times in different states when there was really no
traffic violation that I knew of. All the time the cops let me go without a
ticket when they realized I was an Indian immigrant that had a valid
reason to be where I was. Infact I could sense the guilt when they
would try to give me directions to where I was headed or saying something
nice about India or even once allowing me to fax the mandatory car
papers in later. In some ways I felt the police on the streets of America
had a tough job with all the guns and drugs on the streets and I never felt
any bitterness or anger towards any of the white police officers that
stopped me.
to the average police officer I was advised by friends to obey the police
officer, not make sudden movements and speak respectfully if ever
stopped while driving. The fear of being shot made me follow their advice
without questions.
I was stopped about 4 times in different states when there was really no
traffic violation that I knew of. All the time the cops let me go without a
ticket when they realized I was an Indian immigrant that had a valid
reason to be where I was. Infact I could sense the guilt when they
would try to give me directions to where I was headed or saying something
nice about India or even once allowing me to fax the mandatory car
papers in later. In some ways I felt the police on the streets of America
had a tough job with all the guns and drugs on the streets and I never felt
any bitterness or anger towards any of the white police officers that
stopped me.
47
So only once you were determined to be an Indian immigrant, did the police feel guilty about stopping you. Wonder if that same guilt is felt when they stop black men and then turn up no drugs, guns, outstanding warrants, or and outdated license or registration?
We live in a majority African-American county. One of my sons is a large, scary white man with a felony record. Most of his friends are black - part of that is the demographics; part of it is his choice. He knows that this is true. It's not quite as bad in this county, but it's still true, and he can tell you exactly how bad it is in each of the surrounding counties or municipalities, in no small part because he's often witnessed it.
This is common knowledge for anyone in the black community. It's like knowing where the big potholes are on East Ponce or what days your trash gets picked up. It just happens to be one thing that only applies to black people.
Nobody is making this stuff up. It's true here and it's true everywhere in this country. Even if it may be slightly better in some places, it's a lot worse in others.
If you don't believe it, it's because you don't want to believe it. End of story.
This is common knowledge for anyone in the black community. It's like knowing where the big potholes are on East Ponce or what days your trash gets picked up. It just happens to be one thing that only applies to black people.
Nobody is making this stuff up. It's true here and it's true everywhere in this country. Even if it may be slightly better in some places, it's a lot worse in others.
If you don't believe it, it's because you don't want to believe it. End of story.
21
A conversation with my Asian son. America is a place of enormous opportunity. Study as hard as you can, work harder, learn the language, learn from the role models in the broader community, stay out of any activity or group that even smells of anti-social behavior, there is a place for you in this society. Will everyone treat you like their brother, probably not. Does it matter? No, because you have potential and the barriers you face are no different than anyone else in this society. If you are too tall, too short, nonathletic, can't sing, and so on, each person starts life with challenges. Unfortunately, even though your family is first generation and therefore only learning all of the social conventions, came with no money, and started life with challenge that many minorities face, for some reason, if you are Asian, other racial groups are given preferences to jobs, education, through affirmative action type programs. No matter, hard work and perseverance will carry the day for you. You have a chance to truly win. It is a great country and at least no one will assume that your success is a function of affirmative action, you will have earned your place in this world.
67
Your slur about affirmative action is interesting. Would you prefer that your family had been brought here a few generations ago as slaves?
13
I do not doubt the need for this conversation. I suspect that part of the conversation also needs to go beyond this. Do not father kids you cannot take care of, do not rob, do not commit murder, live a productive life. There is some cause and effect here. Police tend to go where the crime is. It must be very frustrating to be a young, black, male who is on the right path and gets hassled, or worse. It is also frustrating for the rest of society to live with the carnage a disproportionate number of young black males commit.
131
It's remarkable that you and I live in the same city, let alone the same country. Is it so remarkable, given the latest DOJ report on Ferguson, to see the level of duplicitous behavior on behalf of the government, and those that are supposed to serve and protect communities of color, that those same people feel they have to tell their children; you will always be seen as threatening to current hegemony?
8
Robert,
I live in a Connecticut suburb across the road from a golf course...and I STILL have had the talk with my son on several occasions.
My son is a high school sophomore who runs cross country. We have had several spats because he wishes to run in the morning before school. I have replied, ad nauseum, that he won't be viewed as a cross country member in training. The police, and perhaps some of our neighbors, will see a young, black man running on a suburban road in the dark. His dark skin makes him a walking (running) target.
Case in point, please make reference to NYT columnist Charles Blow's son, a junior at Yale, being held by police at gunpoint (very recently) because he was suspected of committing a crime.
As Black people in this country, we are not able to achieve our way beyond the fear of the skin that we were born in. Our very presence makes us a presumed threat.
I live in a Connecticut suburb across the road from a golf course...and I STILL have had the talk with my son on several occasions.
My son is a high school sophomore who runs cross country. We have had several spats because he wishes to run in the morning before school. I have replied, ad nauseum, that he won't be viewed as a cross country member in training. The police, and perhaps some of our neighbors, will see a young, black man running on a suburban road in the dark. His dark skin makes him a walking (running) target.
Case in point, please make reference to NYT columnist Charles Blow's son, a junior at Yale, being held by police at gunpoint (very recently) because he was suspected of committing a crime.
As Black people in this country, we are not able to achieve our way beyond the fear of the skin that we were born in. Our very presence makes us a presumed threat.
32
"Do not father kids you cannot take care of, do not rob, do not commit murder, live a productive life." Who are we talking to here? Do we suppose they are readers of the New York Times? It's all very well to talk from a soapbox, but what's the realistic plan for communicating this information that is supposedly lacking from the upbringing of black males? And not just communicating it, but causing it to take root?
Furthermore, to a great extent these conversations are already taking place. And the results are clear. Here in New York, the city's been transformed from an urban wasteland to the playground of the rich, famous and hip(ster). The teen pregnancy rate has gone way down in the black community. The rate of violent crime has gone down. What hasn't gone down? The incarceration rate.
Furthermore, to a great extent these conversations are already taking place. And the results are clear. Here in New York, the city's been transformed from an urban wasteland to the playground of the rich, famous and hip(ster). The teen pregnancy rate has gone way down in the black community. The rate of violent crime has gone down. What hasn't gone down? The incarceration rate.
5
As an African American,liberal democrat from Massachusetts,my perspective on the Black experience has encountered a nuanced evolution.It is based both on recent history and historical progress.I ask myself,as President Obama also queried,'where else in the world,is my story even possible?That an African American can become the consecutively elected leader of a majority white nation,says something about that country.Such an election,however peculiar,particular and rare,does not deny the ultimate possibility,indeed probability.Of course with all progressive political and societal pathways,there are naysayers,intent on protecting,the idea of 'protection,for future reference.
5
*Well done*. I was very moved by this and remain in a state of reflection. Thank you to the filmmakers for sharing, and to the parents, for their honesty, clarity, and raw emotion.
5
States rights have allowed federal crimes against humanity to be perpetuated against African-Americans, Native Americans and some others right through the Constitution, the Emancipation Proclamation, and the Voting Rights Act.
The fact is, the USA is a profoundly racist society that embraces institutional racism (think prison rates, etc) and structural violence.
Those with money, especially "old" money, slave money, "money for free" Wall Street types, Republicans, and many Democrats overwhelmingly support this structure, because it benefits them and their kin (think "never have to work trust fund offspring").
When was the revolution again? I can't remember…..
We need a real revolution in this country.
Obama and the Democrats weren't it, that's for sure.
The fact is, the USA is a profoundly racist society that embraces institutional racism (think prison rates, etc) and structural violence.
Those with money, especially "old" money, slave money, "money for free" Wall Street types, Republicans, and many Democrats overwhelmingly support this structure, because it benefits them and their kin (think "never have to work trust fund offspring").
When was the revolution again? I can't remember…..
We need a real revolution in this country.
Obama and the Democrats weren't it, that's for sure.
21
That's a lot of cliches to get into one posting. Nice job!
21
Why do you continue to live in such a horrible place? My God, you should move to another country where you can feel more comfortable. I just cannot imagine waking up every morning with feelings like this...
5
you missed throwing in global warming...and the kitchen sink.
1
I do not dispute the tragic necessity for black parents to counsel their sons on how to interact with law enforcement.
What I object to is the repeated contention that this burden falls only on them.
As the parent of a son with autism, who often does not appear to listen or comply, I worry a lot about how future interactions between him and law enforcement might go awry. Last year a young man with Down Syndrome died when police handcuffed him and placed him face down on the ground. His crime? Wanted to see a movie twice. He as unarmed. My fears are real too.
What I object to is the repeated contention that this burden falls only on them.
As the parent of a son with autism, who often does not appear to listen or comply, I worry a lot about how future interactions between him and law enforcement might go awry. Last year a young man with Down Syndrome died when police handcuffed him and placed him face down on the ground. His crime? Wanted to see a movie twice. He as unarmed. My fears are real too.
123
So, do you go to the the cancer awareness event and remind everyone that heart disease is pretty bad too? Really, your fears are real and appreciated, and conversations on the fears of the parents of black boys do not take away from that. Please focus on building bridges rather than trying to remind people that you have fears too. You will find the black community very receptive and welcoming of your perspective and input on ways to alleviate their fears and yours. Especially since black boys and girls have autism too, which means their parents must fear on multiple levels.
21
Of course your fears are real. I don't really think anyone in the video is saying otherwise, they are sharing their own experiences, and I am glad that you shared yours too.
6
The tendency of the police to resort to force as a first response is a problem that seems to be increasing even as crime rates drop to historic lows.
I pray your son fares well.
I pray your son fares well.
3
Anyone who doesn't see the need for Black parents and children to have this
conversation is part of the problem.
Anyone who is not offended by the need for Black parents and children to have this conversation is part of the problem.
I look forward to future doses of reality.
conversation is part of the problem.
Anyone who is not offended by the need for Black parents and children to have this conversation is part of the problem.
I look forward to future doses of reality.
239
On the contrary, ALL parents of teenager should have conversation(s) with their children regarding how to behave when confronted with anyone of authority. Respectful, compliance and truthful. What is so hard about that? If you start teaching your children at a young age that they should be respectful to all authority and 1) do not break the law and 2) if they are caught breaking the law, such as speeding etc, that they are to remain respectful and calm. Too many parents are quick to take the side of their "little darlings". When I was growing up, back in the middle ages, if we got in trouble with any authority from teachers to the police we got it twice as bad at home.
10
We all have conversations with our children on how to handle the police and they really aren't any different. Comply, be respectful. Good advice for all races.
5
I had this discussion with my White children 15 years ago. Black or White, its the same discussion.
10
Outstanding, poignant, and regrettably necessary work. Very much looking forward to future episodes in the series. The love of the parents for their children is as obvious as their dread of the worst-case scenario. As our society becomes increasingly re-segregated, it is crucial that white people hear these conversations because they very rarely have them in their lives.
127
Any parent, black or white, that doesnt tell their children how to interact with the police is being negligent
12
Yea, Massa!