It looks an awful lot like the grown ups here in the US will be voting for either another Clinton or another Bush. Netanyahu said he needs the votes directly to stay Prime Minister even as V15 leads it anybody but Netanyahu campaign and Bennett assures that a vote for Jewish Home is a vote for Netanyahu. I actually think Lieberman was on to something with the 3.25%. It may help to overturn Yisrael Beintenu. Maybe Rivlin can push the reform further after organizing a coalition government? Maybe the new bottom should be 5 or even 10%?
1
Question begs, which is more dysfunctional: Israel's political system, or its voters? Either way, when bad decisions are made, I can't help but think of what Jewish mothers of past generations said to their children when consequences resulted from doing something wrong: "it serves you right!"
1
Now we hear from an Israeli journalist who thinks that local voters (other than those of the party he supports) are "juvenile". He presumably would send them all to bed without their supper.
This is the sort of commentary we need.
This is the sort of commentary we need.
2
Mr. Rosner you do not address the real problem of Israeli elections, the fact that the vote is for the party and not the person. True change will not come until Members of Knesset are chosen directly instead of by their position on a party list.
3
I've always suspected that it's as much about not wanting to lose out to someone else's views as it is about wanting policy to reflect one's own views. Childish adults hate to lose.
"It is time for Israel’s Arab voters to demand representation that truly reflects their interests, rather than politicians who simply denounce Israel’s Zionist ethos rather than serve their constituents’ political needs."
Whatever the problems with the parties that represent Israel's Palestinian citizens, denouncing Zionism is not one of them.
Zionism, which is the both official ideology of the Israeli state and the name of the social and political arrangements it maintains, is the chief source of problems in the lives of Israel's Palestinian citizens.
Zionism maintains them in a state of second-class citizenship in which discrimination in housing, land use, employment, education and access to basic services like plumbing and garbage pickup are routine.
More importantly, Zionism maintains their sisters and brothers living under occupation in the East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in a shaemeful condition of statelessness and extreme poverty and immiseration.
Most people don't realize it, but a slim majority of the people now living under Israeli rule are Palestinian. Its just that 2/3 of them have no political voice in the state that actually governs them.
The supposed childishness of Israeli voters is a function of this. The purpose of Israel's political system is to keep all of the Jews united in maintaining their boots on the necks of the Palestinians. This is achieved in part by giving goodies to every little (Jewish) constituency.
Whatever the problems with the parties that represent Israel's Palestinian citizens, denouncing Zionism is not one of them.
Zionism, which is the both official ideology of the Israeli state and the name of the social and political arrangements it maintains, is the chief source of problems in the lives of Israel's Palestinian citizens.
Zionism maintains them in a state of second-class citizenship in which discrimination in housing, land use, employment, education and access to basic services like plumbing and garbage pickup are routine.
More importantly, Zionism maintains their sisters and brothers living under occupation in the East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in a shaemeful condition of statelessness and extreme poverty and immiseration.
Most people don't realize it, but a slim majority of the people now living under Israeli rule are Palestinian. Its just that 2/3 of them have no political voice in the state that actually governs them.
The supposed childishness of Israeli voters is a function of this. The purpose of Israel's political system is to keep all of the Jews united in maintaining their boots on the necks of the Palestinians. This is achieved in part by giving goodies to every little (Jewish) constituency.
7
"..they shop for parties the same way they shop for clothing. They want a party that is fashionable and attractive and so they vote for celebrities rather than a political program."
Funny. I am going to use it. I'll quote you.
This sounds like many of India's parties...DK, DMK, AIDMK, AIIDMK, Congress A, Congress B, Congress TMC or Congress TLC...
Funny. I am going to use it. I'll quote you.
This sounds like many of India's parties...DK, DMK, AIDMK, AIIDMK, Congress A, Congress B, Congress TMC or Congress TLC...
2
In representative democracy, the idea is that the people elected people they trust to use good judgment to solve problems. The issues are not decided by the elections, the representatives are decided; they mention issues only to show voters who and what they are.
The failure, and a very juvenile one, in both Israel and the US is the failure of those representatives to live up to their job.
Electing even more faceless and unresponsive unknowns from only two major camps might get something done, but it would not be representative, just something.
The voters need to elect not two blocs, but good people who will do their jobs well.
The failure, and a very juvenile one, in both Israel and the US is the failure of those representatives to live up to their job.
Electing even more faceless and unresponsive unknowns from only two major camps might get something done, but it would not be representative, just something.
The voters need to elect not two blocs, but good people who will do their jobs well.
6
This the problem with Parliamentary Democracy. Things go much smoother with one party or dictatorial rule.
4
Oh, interesting! If I understand correctly, this is something like when so many people voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, and handed the election to George Bush.
And people here did learn! When you read a left leaning comment section, you see people saying 'I refuse to vote for the democratic candidate, they are not progressive enough', and about ten people jump in to say, 'oh, no, you will just hand the election to the republicans just like in 2000! Please hold your nose and vote!" There was in fact a big difference between Bush and Gore. It took that bad experience for people to learn.
And people here did learn! When you read a left leaning comment section, you see people saying 'I refuse to vote for the democratic candidate, they are not progressive enough', and about ten people jump in to say, 'oh, no, you will just hand the election to the republicans just like in 2000! Please hold your nose and vote!" There was in fact a big difference between Bush and Gore. It took that bad experience for people to learn.
14
While Nader may have focused on swing states in 2000, it did not result in any significant losses for Gore. It was the Supreme Court, deciding that Florida's recount would take too long, that handed over the election to Bush.
3
How is this article relevant to Americans?
2
There is a vast world beyond the borders of the U.S. Many subscribe to the New York Times to read and learn about it.
10
To stay in power, Israeli prime ministers need to maintain support from members of coalitions which may have widely divergent views on a number of issues. For example, even if Netanyahu wanted to be more forthcoming in past years in working toward a two-state solution (hypothetically anyway), he would lose support of the extreme right members of his coalition by doing so, causing his government to fail. So, politcal fragmentation in Israel - detering new and bold initiatives - is very relevant to all who have an interest in Mideast peace.
2
Not much different in the States or anywhere else these days it would seem. It seems that voters and non voters everywhere on our earth are struggling to maintain a sense of identity and tribal association. Our earth is in desperate trouble and until "she" can become healthy again we all are destined to be ideologically extreme, uniformly angry and waring! When we get a healthy earth, possibly along with that will come a new sense of civility and broader concerns for our lives?
1
TLDR - I'm voting Labor because they have the best chance of removing Bibi from office.
That's an admirable goal and all, but it's cloaked in so much rhetoric one gets the feeling there's something Rosner doesn't want to say outright. Does anyone seriously believe people or voting for Bennett because they want a fellow Russian in power? Or that Arabs have any interest in an alliance with a Zionist party, no matter how left-wing? Or that Haredim would be willing to give up their privileges for the good of the nation? If Rosner is embarrassed to declare himself a part of the Israeli left, I certainly sympathize with him. But that's no excuse for all this obfuscation.
That's an admirable goal and all, but it's cloaked in so much rhetoric one gets the feeling there's something Rosner doesn't want to say outright. Does anyone seriously believe people or voting for Bennett because they want a fellow Russian in power? Or that Arabs have any interest in an alliance with a Zionist party, no matter how left-wing? Or that Haredim would be willing to give up their privileges for the good of the nation? If Rosner is embarrassed to declare himself a part of the Israeli left, I certainly sympathize with him. But that's no excuse for all this obfuscation.
3
Israel has a higher voter turnout than the US, as well as stricter campaign finance laws, and an array of parties that actually gives voters a real choice of priorities, policies, and agendas.
Proportional representation ensures that the constellation of parties represented in parliament--and thus, political power--roughly corresponds to the wishes of voters. Compare that to the US, where a 51% majority (or less--think of 2000) can elect a president who will do nothing that the other 49% will like, and where one party (currently the Republicans) can win a majority in both houses of Congress with a minority of votes.
Proportional representation ensures that the constellation of parties represented in parliament--and thus, political power--roughly corresponds to the wishes of voters. Compare that to the US, where a 51% majority (or less--think of 2000) can elect a president who will do nothing that the other 49% will like, and where one party (currently the Republicans) can win a majority in both houses of Congress with a minority of votes.
4
What is the proportional representation for all of the Christian Muslim Arab Palestinians under Israeli dominion inside and outside of Israel?
1
I guess the old joke that every two jews have at least three opinions in every discussion, it's not important what is good for the country but to prove to his neighbor that he is smarter than him, & would rather die than admit he was wrong.Here in America we haven't changed much, but we don't have much of a choice of whom to vote for.I am a perfect example of this dilemma. Do I vote for my pocket & vote for the Republicans, or do I vote for my Son who is gay,& vote for the Democrat. Frankly I don't like either Party, but old habits are veery hard to break & I'll probably vote for the Democrat & hate myself for doing it, but I wouldn't be Jewish if I didn't have guilt.
1
Ulraliberal, Don't feel bad about voting for Democrats because of the economy. The economy in the last decades has done much better under the Democrats than under Republican control.
3
Israel could reduce the number of its parties by making it expensive to lose. The United States is a two party system not because the Founders wanted it that way, they hated political parties, nor because it is the best system. It is because you get nothing if you lose. The result is third parties make no sense. Israel could adjust its system so those that do not win get much less power, if not none. Then you would get larger more diverse parties.
2
Our 2 Party system did not work in the 2014 Congressional election because of "gerrymandered" districts.
4
Respectfully, I think this op-ed is a bit nuts.
Firstly, the argument seems to be in favour of limiting opinions to just 2 or 3. This sort of political oligopoly restricts political discourse and concentrates power. Both are bad things.
Secondly is the suggestion that collapsing down to 2 or 3 parties would eliminate the diversity of opinion in the first place. It will not. Instead of multiple parties fighting it out, you will get multiple factions within each party fighting it out. Just look at the Tea Party within the American Republican party.
So, fewer parties means more concentration of power combined with infighting within parties rather than in front of the electorate. Better the dysfunction you know.
Firstly, the argument seems to be in favour of limiting opinions to just 2 or 3. This sort of political oligopoly restricts political discourse and concentrates power. Both are bad things.
Secondly is the suggestion that collapsing down to 2 or 3 parties would eliminate the diversity of opinion in the first place. It will not. Instead of multiple parties fighting it out, you will get multiple factions within each party fighting it out. Just look at the Tea Party within the American Republican party.
So, fewer parties means more concentration of power combined with infighting within parties rather than in front of the electorate. Better the dysfunction you know.
4
Traditionally, democracies have been portrayed as having a choice between a proportional representation, which allows multiple parties representing a diversity of opinion to flourish, and a winner-take-all system, which leads to only two main parties. Political scientists have viewed this choice has as a tradeoff between representation and efficiency: a proportional system allows for more citizens to truly feel that their voices are being heard and for more issues to be brought up, but it can lead to instability and to governments collapsing. A winner-take-all system, on the other hand, leads to large, broad-based coalition parties which are more stable, at the cost of having fewer opinions represented.
But now we have the US, and it seems to disprove this paradigm entirely. We have a winner-take-all system with only two political parties, and yet we get less done and have more dysfunction than any other democracy in the world. Is it really surprising that people in other countries would look at the US and think, well, why do I want a two-party system?
But now we have the US, and it seems to disprove this paradigm entirely. We have a winner-take-all system with only two political parties, and yet we get less done and have more dysfunction than any other democracy in the world. Is it really surprising that people in other countries would look at the US and think, well, why do I want a two-party system?
7
Our Constitutional system limits the number of relevant parties by how we elect thr Presidnet through the Electoral College. Its strength is the 4 year period of predicatable government leadership.
The Israeli system has both the problem of too many parties, few of which attract a large number of voters. A party needs to get 3.25 % of the vote even to have any seats in the Knesset. Another weakness of the Parliamentary system is that a single no confidence vote collapses the government, and triggers a new election.
The rise of the "me" generation is a world-wide phenomenon. In many countries, people are so bombarded by information, some important and some just silly, that it is easy to lose track of the significant issues if one fails to pay attention. It is not just Israelis who have problems making up their minds. Here in the US, we have people who can't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans, and they often tend to be the last people to decide, and sometimes they control the outcome of an election. Pretty scary, isn't it?
The Israeli system has both the problem of too many parties, few of which attract a large number of voters. A party needs to get 3.25 % of the vote even to have any seats in the Knesset. Another weakness of the Parliamentary system is that a single no confidence vote collapses the government, and triggers a new election.
The rise of the "me" generation is a world-wide phenomenon. In many countries, people are so bombarded by information, some important and some just silly, that it is easy to lose track of the significant issues if one fails to pay attention. It is not just Israelis who have problems making up their minds. Here in the US, we have people who can't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans, and they often tend to be the last people to decide, and sometimes they control the outcome of an election. Pretty scary, isn't it?
2
Here in the US we sometimes also have elections that the majority loses. This was the case in the last election when more people voted for Democrats nationally, but still lost the Congress. The issue was "gerrymandering" not multiple parties.
6
The article is about only one person's juvenile behavior. Mr. Rosner thinks people who don't vote the way he wants are "poo poo heads."
2
Does Mr. Rosner plan to toss a shekel in the air to help him decide which party he's voting for in tomorrow's election? The last paragraph in this absurd sounding column indicates that his voting habits reflect a truly childish mentality.
1
March 17, interesting day. Apart from its ritual significance for the Irish and faux Irish in America, this year it’s important for Israel, America, and the whole Middle East. The opening sentence, about Israeli voters growing up, also applies to America.
With a few terms changed, the whole article might apply to America,. For example, our religious zealots need to consider the Union to which they belong, and to realize that the people they demonize, those coastal lefties, provide much of America’s wealth and security. Those posturing jesters, Cotton and Gowdy are not one bit funny. Voters need to grow up in Ireland too, where a once-dominant Church still calls the votes for many, and where the government is preparing a referendum on same-sex marriage.
The human condition, one evolutionary step short of “sapiens?”
With a few terms changed, the whole article might apply to America,. For example, our religious zealots need to consider the Union to which they belong, and to realize that the people they demonize, those coastal lefties, provide much of America’s wealth and security. Those posturing jesters, Cotton and Gowdy are not one bit funny. Voters need to grow up in Ireland too, where a once-dominant Church still calls the votes for many, and where the government is preparing a referendum on same-sex marriage.
The human condition, one evolutionary step short of “sapiens?”
2
I am glad there are more than ‘right’ and ‘left’ in Israeli politics. The time in which one had to choose between two ideologies created deep antagonism among many against the Labor party. The only chance to remove Bibi from power is to have people that support a peace agreement and evacuation of some settlements vote for various parties.
I am sure most Israelis will grow up by Tuesday. Israel has one of the highest voters turnout in the west.
Onourselvesandothers.com
I am sure most Israelis will grow up by Tuesday. Israel has one of the highest voters turnout in the west.
Onourselvesandothers.com
2
Too funny. We do the party thing.....the independents take their 15% or 20% and sway in the breeze, both left and right want a perfect hold to ideological principles and the difference between the two countries is....WHAT? Tell me again?
1
And the Palestinians will be having their next election when?
5
I suppose one must dust off the old adage attributed to Churchill (whose petulant anti-Semitism and wrecking-ball imperialism linger to this day like a toxic cloud over the Middle East), that "democracy is the worst form of government save all the others," or words to that effect.
It's true as far as it goes. Yet with Israel's approach to democracy imploding fairly spectacularly, when you try to think up alternatives you soon recognize that all the options are flawed, perhaps fatally.
Goodness knows the US has nothing to teach the rest of the world except perhaps as a cautionary tale. Our two-party system has been transformed (inevitably, you begin to realize) into a feeding-tank for billionaire sharks: our antique constitution is a dead weight on reform and modernization.
The more I think about it, the more I conclude that good government is, in the end, about leaders, not philosophies. Any form of government, including democracy, is only as good as the men and women who rise to the top.
We've seen where that's gotten us here in the land of the Kochs and Karl Rove and Senators Cruz and Cotton.
In Israel, too--the land of Netanyahu and Liberman--a bitter fascism has evolved, underwritten in part by our own military-industrial-congressional complex, in part by corrupt megalomaniacs like Adelson.
A proud socialist state is morphing before our eyes into a dangerous sham. It's up to the people what happens next. Alas, the people are reliably unreliable.
It's true as far as it goes. Yet with Israel's approach to democracy imploding fairly spectacularly, when you try to think up alternatives you soon recognize that all the options are flawed, perhaps fatally.
Goodness knows the US has nothing to teach the rest of the world except perhaps as a cautionary tale. Our two-party system has been transformed (inevitably, you begin to realize) into a feeding-tank for billionaire sharks: our antique constitution is a dead weight on reform and modernization.
The more I think about it, the more I conclude that good government is, in the end, about leaders, not philosophies. Any form of government, including democracy, is only as good as the men and women who rise to the top.
We've seen where that's gotten us here in the land of the Kochs and Karl Rove and Senators Cruz and Cotton.
In Israel, too--the land of Netanyahu and Liberman--a bitter fascism has evolved, underwritten in part by our own military-industrial-congressional complex, in part by corrupt megalomaniacs like Adelson.
A proud socialist state is morphing before our eyes into a dangerous sham. It's up to the people what happens next. Alas, the people are reliably unreliable.
1
People voting for personality over policy isn't just a problem with systems that have a large number of small parties. We get it in Canada frequently enough and the U.S. has had a doozy with it's big government neocons hiding behind the 'President you can have a beer with (if he wasn't a recovering alcoholic)'.
2
Please stop all the micro-analysis of this micro-state and its micro-politics. New York City, of all places, should resent the attention (and the financial aid) given to this turbulent "ally" at the behest first of AIPAC and now, we are informed, of the loony evangelical right wing. There are 8 million Israelis and 8 million New Yorkers, but while Israel gets billions, the attitude of the clowns in DC to NYC was once accurately characterized as "drop dead".
2
Alas, like a mature parent lecturing his children "for their own good", your compatriots will not listen to you and will continue on the path toward their own self-destruction. And then they will call it anti-semitism.
2
Ever hear the expression 2 Jews 3 opinions? Or perhaps 5? The multi-party fractional style of government in Israel is perfectly emblematic of the Jewish psyche - there can be no other system. Disclaimer: I am Jewish!
2
The lesson of Israel's parliamentary democracy is that it is a terribly difficult, confusing and often self-destructive form of government, except for all the other forms, which are worse. Reaching a consensus in a democracy should be hard, because people have very different expectations from their government. Some want it to control everything to promote their ideals, while others prefer it to control nothing to allow them maximum freedom, with the majority somewhere in between the two extremes. It is a miracle that in a democracy anything is ever accomplished. However, in most of the world's democracies much is accomplished and its due to compromise.
It is those democracies that cannot engage in give and take, that cannot accept the ascension to power by the opposition or the change brought by majorities that become dysfunctional. Like the Republican's vow to obstruct everything a twice elected President proposes.
In both Israel and the United States money has empowered extremes and made compromise more difficult if not impossible. It is money, with its control of the media and therefore the message that makes democracy even more dysfunctional. Until we get people like Sheldon Adelson out of the political process. democracy in Israel and the United States will continue to be stuck in the mud.
It is those democracies that cannot engage in give and take, that cannot accept the ascension to power by the opposition or the change brought by majorities that become dysfunctional. Like the Republican's vow to obstruct everything a twice elected President proposes.
In both Israel and the United States money has empowered extremes and made compromise more difficult if not impossible. It is money, with its control of the media and therefore the message that makes democracy even more dysfunctional. Until we get people like Sheldon Adelson out of the political process. democracy in Israel and the United States will continue to be stuck in the mud.
3
Mr. Rosner states that "[i]t is time for Israel’s Arab voters to demand representation that truly reflects their interests, rather than politicians who simply denounce Israel’s Zionist ethos rather than serve their constituents’ political needs."
Interesting. I happened upon a New York Times news analysis, dated March 16, 2015, "Arab Alliance Rises as Force in Israeli Vote." That piece describes the Joint List's Mr. Odeh as wanting to work for the economic and civic betterment of his constituents and advocating bridge-building with Israeli Jews.
Perhaps Mr. Rosner needs to "grow up" and take the current pulse of Israel's electorate (which includes people who are Arabs) before promulgating tired canards regarding what Israeli Arabs should do and have done.
Interesting. I happened upon a New York Times news analysis, dated March 16, 2015, "Arab Alliance Rises as Force in Israeli Vote." That piece describes the Joint List's Mr. Odeh as wanting to work for the economic and civic betterment of his constituents and advocating bridge-building with Israeli Jews.
Perhaps Mr. Rosner needs to "grow up" and take the current pulse of Israel's electorate (which includes people who are Arabs) before promulgating tired canards regarding what Israeli Arabs should do and have done.
4
What about the voting rights of Christian Muslim Arab Palestinians under Israeli dominion?
1
Characterizing the voting behavior of Israelis as juvenile because the behavior goes against a stereotype of adult behavior that we may have is simply foolish. There may be a preferable voting system but that is another matter. Israelis are voting as best they can in the system that exists.
12
Not only is it the system that exists, but more importantly it is the system the Israeli's designed and selected. If all that was desired was to concentrate political power in the hands of fewer political parties, it would be a simple matter of raising the minimum percentage of the vote to obtain a seat in the Knesset from the current 3.25% to, say, 10-20% of the votes cast. The Israelis have raised the parliamentary threshold three times; they will do it again if and when they so choose.
2
How does it make sense to strive to mimic a dysfunctional 2-party system like that in the US?
14
Early 70s I used to work for ZIM lines, the Israeli state shipping line. At that time Israel was a solid socialist run state. My shipmates were Israeli: initially I was the only non- Israeli (I am Dutch).
Later on I was joined by an Arab from Betlehem and was present when the Captain interviewed him for the job. The Captain signed him on, which lead to some commotion with the Officers and Crew. After departure from Haifa the Captain ordered "all hands on deck" and made a speech, in Hebrew, which I did not understand, but had a profound influence on all crew- members.
When I asked him what he had told the crewmembers, he told me he would fire any crewmember on the spot if they would continue their negative attitude towards the Arab. crew member.
In the next port of call, I noticed the Arab going ashore with some of the Israeli crewmembers: certainly a good sign.
I often think of this occurrence, realizing the road Israeli politics has followed iOS not good.
I am happy to have been a crewmember on that vessel (m.s. Yarden), what a country Israel was then.
Later on I was joined by an Arab from Betlehem and was present when the Captain interviewed him for the job. The Captain signed him on, which lead to some commotion with the Officers and Crew. After departure from Haifa the Captain ordered "all hands on deck" and made a speech, in Hebrew, which I did not understand, but had a profound influence on all crew- members.
When I asked him what he had told the crewmembers, he told me he would fire any crewmember on the spot if they would continue their negative attitude towards the Arab. crew member.
In the next port of call, I noticed the Arab going ashore with some of the Israeli crewmembers: certainly a good sign.
I often think of this occurrence, realizing the road Israeli politics has followed iOS not good.
I am happy to have been a crewmember on that vessel (m.s. Yarden), what a country Israel was then.
59
Actually, that makes sense if you look at the Bible. Arabs and Jews are really cousins from the same father although Arabs don't really want to make that universally known. Islam really did respect Jews during their heyday in Mohammed's time and Christians as well. It's the politics that have ruined everything. Idea that that the land belongs to Palestinians is untrue and it never did. Sure the settlements are bad, but when are the Arabs going to omit the destruction of all Jews from their charters? Noticeably, the leadership of all the terror groups live in Cuter in nice hotels so their families are safe and sound. Tells you something?
1
A ZU GEDACHT--IT COULD BE WORST
Boy, I thought we had it bad in the US with the polarization of our two main parties and the splitting of the Republicans between the extreme and the splinter right. Still, I'm glad that we don't have all the parties of Israel. The sure gum up the works. I don't know that we could count high enough with our weak scores in math; we have trouble counting to three (parties that is).
And Israel is going through a period where the 1% have managed to do what they always do in time of political vacuum: Take money and run. Israel used to have an enlightened social policy. And, dare I say the "s" word, a socialist philosophy.
Still, we need to learn from Israel because the religious extreme right have the special privileges that our religious extreme right could only dream about. That's because Ben Gurion realized that he could not form a government without their participation. And he was afraid of losing the remnants of Orthodox Judaism who survived the Holocaust. But now they want to impose the Israeli version of bringing back the Caliphate.
Oy!
The one bright hope is that Bibi will lose. Good riddance! Or is it? We'll have to see what the Babble of political parties can hash out. As Metternich said, He who loves the law and sausages should observe neither being made. But this is Israel, so to keep things kosher, we have to watch the sausages. Maybe the politics too.
Boy, I thought we had it bad in the US with the polarization of our two main parties and the splitting of the Republicans between the extreme and the splinter right. Still, I'm glad that we don't have all the parties of Israel. The sure gum up the works. I don't know that we could count high enough with our weak scores in math; we have trouble counting to three (parties that is).
And Israel is going through a period where the 1% have managed to do what they always do in time of political vacuum: Take money and run. Israel used to have an enlightened social policy. And, dare I say the "s" word, a socialist philosophy.
Still, we need to learn from Israel because the religious extreme right have the special privileges that our religious extreme right could only dream about. That's because Ben Gurion realized that he could not form a government without their participation. And he was afraid of losing the remnants of Orthodox Judaism who survived the Holocaust. But now they want to impose the Israeli version of bringing back the Caliphate.
Oy!
The one bright hope is that Bibi will lose. Good riddance! Or is it? We'll have to see what the Babble of political parties can hash out. As Metternich said, He who loves the law and sausages should observe neither being made. But this is Israel, so to keep things kosher, we have to watch the sausages. Maybe the politics too.
28
Mr. Rosner, as an Israeli, I agree with you on most counts. However, I don't think that the bi-partisan politics in the US is any better or more effective. In fact, Israeli politics is an example of extreme diversity, for the good and the bad. I wouldn't think you are against diversity.
Also, although most parties are vague and not more than an empty shell (the "large" Labor and Likud are prime example, and are mainly guided by the latest opinion poll), I think that there are three parties that have presented clear agendas: Habait Hayehudi, which is decisively right-wing; Kulanu, led by Mr. Kahlon who have said exactly what he wants to do when he is appointed Finance Minister; and the Arab party, which is decidedly left-wing.
Also, although most parties are vague and not more than an empty shell (the "large" Labor and Likud are prime example, and are mainly guided by the latest opinion poll), I think that there are three parties that have presented clear agendas: Habait Hayehudi, which is decisively right-wing; Kulanu, led by Mr. Kahlon who have said exactly what he wants to do when he is appointed Finance Minister; and the Arab party, which is decidedly left-wing.
8
And how many Christian Muslim Arab Palestinian Israeli voters and political parties and factions will be voting and participating in tomorrow's Israeli elections?
Why so much American angst over an election in a foreign nation of 8 million people? How much diversity of opinion are there among Americans about the pending Israeli election by ethnicity, region, political party, socioeconomic status, race and faith?
The pending delayed election in Africa's most populous country Nigeria is of far more portent and consequence to America than this Israeli election. None of the recent elections in India, Indonesia or Brazil garnered as much American media attention as this Israeli election. India is the most populous democracy and the country with the most Hindus. Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation. Brazil is the most populous nation in South America with the 2nd largest black African population in the world.
Nor did the military coups in Egypt and Thailand along with a return to tyrannical dictatorships excite American notice. America has no worry about any voters preferences among it's Sunni Muslim Arab secular, royal and theocratic autocrat allies.
What are American interests and values in the midst of this turmoil?
Why so much American angst over an election in a foreign nation of 8 million people? How much diversity of opinion are there among Americans about the pending Israeli election by ethnicity, region, political party, socioeconomic status, race and faith?
The pending delayed election in Africa's most populous country Nigeria is of far more portent and consequence to America than this Israeli election. None of the recent elections in India, Indonesia or Brazil garnered as much American media attention as this Israeli election. India is the most populous democracy and the country with the most Hindus. Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation. Brazil is the most populous nation in South America with the 2nd largest black African population in the world.
Nor did the military coups in Egypt and Thailand along with a return to tyrannical dictatorships excite American notice. America has no worry about any voters preferences among it's Sunni Muslim Arab secular, royal and theocratic autocrat allies.
What are American interests and values in the midst of this turmoil?
5
You seem to forget that 3+ billion of American citizens' tax dollars go to Israel every year in the form of military aid and that Israel is our so-called "closest ally".
It's actually quite important for Americans to have an interest in what is being done in the name of our so-called "shared values" and with our tax dollars; especially considering Israel's track record with respect to violating international law and human rights in general.
It's actually quite important for Americans to have an interest in what is being done in the name of our so-called "shared values" and with our tax dollars; especially considering Israel's track record with respect to violating international law and human rights in general.
2
Israel is, for me, exhibit 'A' in why our two party system is really a good idea. Many here call for a multi-party system, but what I see in Israel is fragile coalitions in which tiny parties representing the views of small minorities must always be satisfied. While hearing minorities is a good idea, maintaining those views in small pockets which must be satisfied in order for the legislature to legislate is stunting to put it mildly.
13
Our two party system elected George W Bush. Twice.
You'd have a hard time convincing most people that there could ever be a *worse* outcome than that from a voting system, not just for our country but for the entire world.
You'd have a hard time convincing most people that there could ever be a *worse* outcome than that from a voting system, not just for our country but for the entire world.
49
Not a fan of our polity as configured. Party affiliation here is waning. Independents, such as myself, fed up with both bought-off large parties, are growing. A third party, representing a reasoned center seems befitting Our center, however, is divided. The Greens never seem to gather a substantial following. Instead the two behemoths vie for independent with promises that never come to fruition, basically because big money writes our laws and prevents any progressive movement on essentials necessary for transition into the 21st Century. From energy to communications, from immigration reform to healthy food to clean water and air, we are not making decisions that reflect a vision, just the status qua.
8
In a parliamentary system like Israel's, in order to rule the largest and most powerful parties must form coalitions with small and often disproportionately powerful factions after the elections, whereas in a two-party system like the United States', in order to rule the largest and most powerful parties must form coalitions with with small and often disproportionately powerful factions *before* the elections.
Not all that huge a difference really, I think.
Not all that huge a difference really, I think.
1
In my opinion internal Israeli politics do not seem to matter at all for the maintenance of the conditions that keep Israel afloat.Since this state serves as the 'western army' in the Middle East, its military function is key to its survival. Survival as an army is only possible with solid and enduring support from Europe and the USA. Whatever the political parties do in Israel,from the western point of view their only essential task is to keep up their military. And exactly that also shields them against the entranched enmity of their surroundings. So, as long as the internal instability and weaknesses of Israel do not result in military breakdown, the existence of this geopolitically impossible state is secure. Loosing nuclear monopoly in the area is by far not as dangerous as loosing its garrison state character.If this analysis is correct at all, it makes life for Israeli politicians rather simple."Growing up" as Rosner asks, is not a necesary task because its refers to non military and therefor structurally not essential conditions.
13
PCohen, if you are correct, Israel is in trouble first in Europe, which cannot stomach any more "wars" with Gaza, a prison, and second in America which was dealt a double dose of Adelson corruption. Netanyahu's campaign speech in Congress and the 47 Senate Quislings letter to provoke the hardline Iranians have not endeared Israel to the American people. Netanyahu and Adelson and other corrupt figures had far too much influence over the Bush Administration's Iraq catastrophe. As recent events coupled with the consequences of that idiocy, America has become jaded to the Sunni vassal ISIS and finds itself with a reliable ally in the Shia fighters and Iran against the decapitators. Americans are starting to recognize that all of the Terrorists on 9/11 were Sunni, 15 were Saudi, and that Al Qaeda has it's roots in Saudi Arabia and the other Sunni monarchies. It is not lost on Americans that Israel and Saudi Arabia are in bed together over Iran.
The best solution may be Bibi's defeat and disappearance from political life, Adelson's arrest for corruption around the world, and the restoration of relations with a powerful secure Israel on the path to peace.
The best solution may be Bibi's defeat and disappearance from political life, Adelson's arrest for corruption around the world, and the restoration of relations with a powerful secure Israel on the path to peace.
35
"Since this state serves as the 'western army' in the Middle East..." Really? The very same "army" that could not readily subdue Gaza again last year? That was soundly defeated in Lebanon before that? That was absent in Iraq for almost 10 years while the United States did the fighting on the ground? That is today absent from Syria and Iraq as the Kurds and Iranians do most of the fighting on the ground? That is all bluff when it threatens to unilaterally force the Iranians to cease its nuclear bomb program?
Thanks to the support of the U.S., the IDF may be the most powerful military force in the region, but it neither protects nor defends the interests of the West; other than the U.S., to which Western country does Israel serve as a military ally? Certainly not France.
Thanks to the support of the U.S., the IDF may be the most powerful military force in the region, but it neither protects nor defends the interests of the West; other than the U.S., to which Western country does Israel serve as a military ally? Certainly not France.
2
US voters generally follow the path you recommend, voting for one of two major parties. Any idea that this is a less "juvenile" approach however should be dashed when you realize that by doing so they elected George W Bush as President. Twice.
78
We were even more "juvenile" if not infantile by electing and then re-electing BHO as president. Talk about regressive.
1
And an Obama twice. What's worse it appears we may be choosing next
between a Bush and Clinton. There must be a better system somewhere.
between a Bush and Clinton. There must be a better system somewhere.
1
Correction. GW Bush was elected in 2004, but his first presidency was gift wrapped courtesy of the SCOTUS in 2000.
11
.
.
Voters in a 65-year-old nation voting responsibly, with an adult attitude of husbanding resources, compromising, and thinking in terms of the long-term national interests?
Why are you pitching this message in a US-based newspaper? When our nation was about your nation's age, in the 1850's, people and groups of people were at each other's throats. A new party formed in Ripon, Wisc.; but our next presidential election was won by a Democrat, James Buchanan (considered by some to be our worst-ever President, among those who served longer than 12 months).
At age 71, in 1860, our nation elected a candidate from that fashionable new party formed in Ripon. His name was Abraham, and some consider him one of our greatest-ever Presidents. In 1861, our nation was ripped into 2 pieces unable to reconcile. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died during Lincoln's Presidency.
We have lived through those horrible times in our Republic's evolution. We ended up with larger national industries, better education, and even a "Pledge of Allegiance" (adopted after our nation had 100 years of history).
And largely, this occurred with voters voting as they wished -- often with more than 2 major parties vying in important elections (national elections in 1912, 1968, and 1992; New York State election in 1970; Maine's recent elections, and others).
Now, you do it too. Endure what you need to endure. Let your nation mature organically. And Let My People Vote!
.
Voters in a 65-year-old nation voting responsibly, with an adult attitude of husbanding resources, compromising, and thinking in terms of the long-term national interests?
Why are you pitching this message in a US-based newspaper? When our nation was about your nation's age, in the 1850's, people and groups of people were at each other's throats. A new party formed in Ripon, Wisc.; but our next presidential election was won by a Democrat, James Buchanan (considered by some to be our worst-ever President, among those who served longer than 12 months).
At age 71, in 1860, our nation elected a candidate from that fashionable new party formed in Ripon. His name was Abraham, and some consider him one of our greatest-ever Presidents. In 1861, our nation was ripped into 2 pieces unable to reconcile. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died during Lincoln's Presidency.
We have lived through those horrible times in our Republic's evolution. We ended up with larger national industries, better education, and even a "Pledge of Allegiance" (adopted after our nation had 100 years of history).
And largely, this occurred with voters voting as they wished -- often with more than 2 major parties vying in important elections (national elections in 1912, 1968, and 1992; New York State election in 1970; Maine's recent elections, and others).
Now, you do it too. Endure what you need to endure. Let your nation mature organically. And Let My People Vote!
6
It is the system. Israel needs big tent parties, which means voters always have to compromise, which is the way politics should be conducted. Otherwise, the voters effectively cede their own power to compromise to the choices the pols make after their elected.
3
I disagree. Voters should not have to compromise. Congress should. The more parties we have the more representative our government.
Of course no one in the US concerns themselves with representative democracy now that corporations are in charge. The only thing that matters is the Corporate Party which funnels money from the pockets of the electorate directly into the pockets of Big Business.
Of course no one in the US concerns themselves with representative democracy now that corporations are in charge. The only thing that matters is the Corporate Party which funnels money from the pockets of the electorate directly into the pockets of Big Business.
1
Ode Upon a Hebrew Urn*
*Inscription recently discovered by Israeli archaeologists on a 2000 year old
shard of pottery in underground cistern near Jerusalem, now being examined for
authenticity at Hebrew University. The scientists there are uncertain about the
precise meaning of the references made to “Netanyahu,” but believe this may be
be a chant sung in praise of a hitherto unknown ancient Hebrew King who
defeated his enemies and liked to dance.
Thanks to far right, Israel sees light.
Netanyahu speech, sweet as a peach, better than letter from Congress.
Obama mad, legacy gone bad.
Netanyhu meant no disrespect, but decided in the end, oh, what the heck.
Netanyahu the choice, Republicans rejoice.
Adelson and AIPAC on top, Dems a big flop.
Palestinians glum, their leaders struck dumb.
Clintons silent, by this reveal, with Netanyahu, they know they must deal.
Ayatollah afraid, his bomb much delayed.
Iran must now pray, lest comes bombs away.
Fox right, Times and MSNBC not so bright.
Israel must harden, G-d promised no garden.
Palestinians still refusing to abandon the fight and talk to Netanyahu about finding some light.
Iran take care, Netanyahu still there.
Opponents of Israel greatly dismayed, praying end of Israel is simply delayed.
Netanyahu disproportionate, Israel fortunate.
Netanyahu the one, liberals undone.
Netanyahu impolite, but wins the fight.
Hooray, hoorah, sis boom bah!
Netanyahu cha cha cha!
6
Wins the fight.
Loses the war.
Loses the war.
2
Then in tiny letters just deciphered: Netanyahu turned a democracy into a theocracy and the walls came a'tumbling down.
2
It might be hard to make decisions that are not clearly defined with multiple parties but one thing is certain. The chances of getting the best people in office with a 2 party system, long dominant in the US, is never getting the best people in office. The best people often don't get the money to get elected because they don't favor necessarily the folks with the most money. They would try to get what is best for the people of the country, something rarely seen in our political system.
33
Two remarkable quotes leap out at the reader of this essay. “But the problem is not “the system” — as people tend to often complain — it is the juvenile habits of Israel’s voters.” “Instead of parties with an agenda, Israelis get empty shells whose sole agenda is to gain power.” For someone who allegedly makes his living by writing about politics, Mr. Rosner is being either disingenuous or naïve. All political parties, indeed all of politics is about securing, maintaining, and using power – that is the essence of political action. Israel created a parliamentary system that for the entire 67 years of the nation’s existence, has resulted in jury-rigged coalition governments with the added problem of tiny, single issue parties being used to create the coalitions. The names change but the process does not. This is indeed a systemic problem and to blame Israeli voters for this situation is reductionist and wrong. If you give people multiple options, they will make multiple choices. Scolding them as “immature” because you do not approve of their choices is both foolish and patronizing. Either Israel should restructure its entire framework for electing representatives, or it is fated to rely upon a splintered system that increasingly looks like the Monty Python skit about the “Silly Party,” and the “Very Silly Party.” People in the U.S. whine about the limitations of our two-party system without having any idea how disastrous the alternatives might be.
11
Mr. Rosner clearly you are totally out of touch with the Arab list its leader, ior the program it is proposing. Because its campaign is totally based on bringing them better social services, The leader of the list in the debate reached out to Aryeh Derri to work together fighting for the impoverished of Israel.
In fact the arab list is doing exactly what you wish Jewish Israelis did..putting their support around one imperfect party. You can dismiss them now but it wont be easy after election day .
In fact the arab list is doing exactly what you wish Jewish Israelis did..putting their support around one imperfect party. You can dismiss them now but it wont be easy after election day .
27
Mr. Rosner is voting to maintain the status quo by voting for one of the major parties. That's not growing up, That's fear of change.
7
The problem is Israel's European-based Parliament -type of government, and think Italy and not Great Britain.
Another problem is the nature of campaign promises, usually worthless and in often absolute lies.
Mr. Lapid, for instance, perhaps one of the worst Treasury Ministers in the history of the State of Israel is a great campaigner and has a great ability to turn other people's successes, and even other parties successes, into his own. There are people who believe this. Why? Human nature.
Can Israel's problems be solved?
Probably not in the short-run by any party.
The political differences re Palestinians between Mr. Herozg and Mr. Netanyahu may exist, but the Palestinian demands usually are greater than what any Zionist party can agree to. Mr. Herzog may start negotiations and but ultimately he cannot give them what they want and survive. He will not be able to offer more than what Mr. Barak or Mr. Olmert offered and the Palestinians turned that down.
The social-economic issues are dependent on money and that is tied up in defense. Even if there is progress on the Palestinian issue and some agreement, that will not allow much of a decrease in the defense budget, certainly short-term.
So what money there is left over is divided up in health, education, social welfare, not enough for all, and problems result. You can plug a hole in the dam of one problem, but the major difficulties remain.
All of this will not change if one votes for a large party or boutique party.
Another problem is the nature of campaign promises, usually worthless and in often absolute lies.
Mr. Lapid, for instance, perhaps one of the worst Treasury Ministers in the history of the State of Israel is a great campaigner and has a great ability to turn other people's successes, and even other parties successes, into his own. There are people who believe this. Why? Human nature.
Can Israel's problems be solved?
Probably not in the short-run by any party.
The political differences re Palestinians between Mr. Herozg and Mr. Netanyahu may exist, but the Palestinian demands usually are greater than what any Zionist party can agree to. Mr. Herzog may start negotiations and but ultimately he cannot give them what they want and survive. He will not be able to offer more than what Mr. Barak or Mr. Olmert offered and the Palestinians turned that down.
The social-economic issues are dependent on money and that is tied up in defense. Even if there is progress on the Palestinian issue and some agreement, that will not allow much of a decrease in the defense budget, certainly short-term.
So what money there is left over is divided up in health, education, social welfare, not enough for all, and problems result. You can plug a hole in the dam of one problem, but the major difficulties remain.
All of this will not change if one votes for a large party or boutique party.
13
Who would care about any of this Israeli parochialism except that it hugely influences US Mideast policy. Not just influences, but determines. And not just our Mideast policy but our defense policy and the consequent bill for it. It's Wag the Dog, and we're the dog. When it comes to our role in the Middle East, is there any group of 4 million US voters that have as much clout as those that are about to vote in Israel? Or even 40 million US voters. That has to change.
100
How much is US Middle East policy about Israel, and how much of it is it about oil? To some degree I believe it's mostly about oil and that conflict in the Middle East and 9/11 has been exploited to pursue US oil interests. Did we privatize Iraqi oil, yes. Are there those in Congress that want to privatize Iran's oil? I believe so, but that'll never be the claimed intention of war with Iran.
2
That is about to change. A Netanyahu victory will spell a defeat of Israeli influence in America. A Netanyahu defeat will reconfigure the relationship to reflect the declining oil dependence, Sunni partnership, and natural Iranian-Israeli rapprochement.
4
Wishful thinking. Netanyahu embodies the goals of the Zionists and the (Evangelical and Jewish) US will stand behind them even if the rest of the world condemns it.
Arrogant. Why don't you just tell them who to vote for? Last I heard, Israel has a parliamentary system rather than a two party system like the US. And does he think that works better here? Although I am not one of them, there will always be swing voters who find the choices difficult. And there is always a tension between choosing policy and choosing the people you like better.
5
Parliamentary system rather than...?" You mean, rather than divided government, as we have in the USA. By divided, we mean that the CEO is not a member of the legislative body. In parliamentary systems, e.g., Israel and UK, the CEO is the PM, who is a member of the legislative body and, like the Speaker of the US House or majority leader of the Senate, controls the agenda. Close to a dictatorship if the PM keeps his members in line--and his coalition. Thatcher did that; Blair did it; and each ruled supreme for years. Bibi? Sort of!
1
"And there is always a tension between choosing policy and choosing the people you like better."
The latter is very foolish and tells me the votes of those people should be suspect. Who I like or don't like is irrelevant. Who can best helm the ship is where our obligation lies. And really, don't we typically "like" people because we see our reflection in their eyes? It's a sad commentary on the intelligence of the species.
The latter is very foolish and tells me the votes of those people should be suspect. Who I like or don't like is irrelevant. Who can best helm the ship is where our obligation lies. And really, don't we typically "like" people because we see our reflection in their eyes? It's a sad commentary on the intelligence of the species.
1
It seems grass is always greener on the other side. The United States has two large parties and see where that get us?! I have always lamented how American voters are clueless, unthinking and lazy; may be voters everywhere are the same, just part of the nature of unenlightened humans?
What do Israelis want as a people and as a country? Rosner mentioned peace with Palestinians, strong Israel, nuclear free Iran and low housing cost. Realistically, how do Israelis make peace with Palestinians when settlements at West Bank keep expanding, presumably to increase housing and reduce its cost, all at the same time encouraging more exodus of Jews from France and elsewhere to Israel? Realistically, how exactly will Israel politicians be expected to deliver a nuclear free Iran unilaterally? Have they considered if it is even possible -- nuclear free, totally free of anything nuclear?
May be like the American voters, the Israel voters have not yet really consider, then reconcile among themselves, the different conflicting things they want. What does a strong America mean? A country built only by the 1% or all of us? What does a strong Israel mean? Israel that keeps encroaching into West Bank and uncompromisingly insist on having anything else they want?
Netanyahu helped get the United States into an unnecessary war in Iraq. May be the first order of things for the Israelis is to make sure whoever they vote for don't repeat the same with Iran and do not bully the Palestinians.
What do Israelis want as a people and as a country? Rosner mentioned peace with Palestinians, strong Israel, nuclear free Iran and low housing cost. Realistically, how do Israelis make peace with Palestinians when settlements at West Bank keep expanding, presumably to increase housing and reduce its cost, all at the same time encouraging more exodus of Jews from France and elsewhere to Israel? Realistically, how exactly will Israel politicians be expected to deliver a nuclear free Iran unilaterally? Have they considered if it is even possible -- nuclear free, totally free of anything nuclear?
May be like the American voters, the Israel voters have not yet really consider, then reconcile among themselves, the different conflicting things they want. What does a strong America mean? A country built only by the 1% or all of us? What does a strong Israel mean? Israel that keeps encroaching into West Bank and uncompromisingly insist on having anything else they want?
Netanyahu helped get the United States into an unnecessary war in Iraq. May be the first order of things for the Israelis is to make sure whoever they vote for don't repeat the same with Iran and do not bully the Palestinians.
26
Juvenility goes a long way to explaining a number of things that were confusing me about the Israeli body politic, thanks.
8