Once we leave Mr. Ghani will become known more aptly as the Mayor of Kabul.
3
March 9, 2015
The truth is we are stuck with one another – it’s as if a negation of infinity
In our Interconnected global - world, the fact is ’quasi economic military agreements are in place for god knows at least a decade.
Intelligence (‘s) overt and rightly disallowing the Edward Snowden delusions for deciphering the known everything the fact black box by ruling governments are as much a fixation for survival. As for example terrorist savages raging emotional turmoil traumatic is witness in the once great nations of Iraq and Syria – with Afg / Pak hanging in….
The anti- social ‘political’ disease is not exclusive to a particular geo sector –as for example Ukraine rages seeking maturating identity, ( as if the years of social education of the materialist philosophy would have offer remedy to modern adaptations?)
Postmodern literary allows warning of post everywhere and the more the news changes the more it repeats – hopefully in upward spiral of education –
Jja Manhattan, N. Y.
The truth is we are stuck with one another – it’s as if a negation of infinity
In our Interconnected global - world, the fact is ’quasi economic military agreements are in place for god knows at least a decade.
Intelligence (‘s) overt and rightly disallowing the Edward Snowden delusions for deciphering the known everything the fact black box by ruling governments are as much a fixation for survival. As for example terrorist savages raging emotional turmoil traumatic is witness in the once great nations of Iraq and Syria – with Afg / Pak hanging in….
The anti- social ‘political’ disease is not exclusive to a particular geo sector –as for example Ukraine rages seeking maturating identity, ( as if the years of social education of the materialist philosophy would have offer remedy to modern adaptations?)
Postmodern literary allows warning of post everywhere and the more the news changes the more it repeats – hopefully in upward spiral of education –
Jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
In 1980, when the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was underway, the US began a campaign of supporting the religious rebels. We organized them, armed them, and encouraged them with the express intent of dragging the war out long enough to bleed out the Soviets.
In a chilling video, NSA adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski is standing with Afghan rebels, telling them that Allah is on their side and that they must fight — and later tells an interviewer that he was determined to bleed the Soviets "if it meant fighting down to the last Afghan." What a horrific thing to say about another people: to be willing to fight down to the last human being of another country.
The US recruited radical Muslims from all over the world, and told the Pakistani ISI that if someone presented themselves at the border to fight the Holy War, they were to be let in "no questions asked."
So, while the intelligentsia was getting out, every extremist nut was coming in, courtesy of Washington DC. Then, when the Soviets retreated after 10 years of ruthless war, we abandoned the people who fought the Cold War to an end on our behalf. We turned away like it was suddenly none of our business. Every Afghan with any education was gone. A nation that had been peaceful and modernizing until 1978 dissolved into catastrophe.
Now we will abandon this country again, and people say we aren't responsible for it. We're much more responsible for it than we were for Germany or Japan in 1945.
In a chilling video, NSA adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski is standing with Afghan rebels, telling them that Allah is on their side and that they must fight — and later tells an interviewer that he was determined to bleed the Soviets "if it meant fighting down to the last Afghan." What a horrific thing to say about another people: to be willing to fight down to the last human being of another country.
The US recruited radical Muslims from all over the world, and told the Pakistani ISI that if someone presented themselves at the border to fight the Holy War, they were to be let in "no questions asked."
So, while the intelligentsia was getting out, every extremist nut was coming in, courtesy of Washington DC. Then, when the Soviets retreated after 10 years of ruthless war, we abandoned the people who fought the Cold War to an end on our behalf. We turned away like it was suddenly none of our business. Every Afghan with any education was gone. A nation that had been peaceful and modernizing until 1978 dissolved into catastrophe.
Now we will abandon this country again, and people say we aren't responsible for it. We're much more responsible for it than we were for Germany or Japan in 1945.
7
Apparently, the US military wants to retain additional forces to keep fighting the Taliban. How come no one seeks to question our military as to why after all the so called long and expensive training of forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and half a dozen other countries in Africa and Asia, and providing billions of dollars worth of equipment to these armies, they get regularly thumped by a bunch of irregular forces trained in the backwoods for 2 weeks and carrying old Chinese made Kalashnikovs!
Perhaps US training and equipping is designed to make these armies look pretty! Fighting? Not so much!
Perhaps US training and equipping is designed to make these armies look pretty! Fighting? Not so much!
11
Crusades, religious war and ethnic cleansing were never meant to be our reaction to 9/11. The Soviets and even Alexander the Great fell trying to fight in Afghanistan. Are we any different? Adding one more American life to the pyre is a crime. Fighting in the Middle East in an abomination that is cleaving body politic. It's become an industry. One we need to defund and we should have shutdown Homeland Security, when the Republicans tried to leverage the president's immigration policy. Most of it's resources are pointed at us here at home. Do you feel safer today than you did before 9/11? I feel exposed, upended and spied on. You?
12
What better argument could there be for not drawing down our troops than what has happened in Iraq since Obama's ill advised withdrawal. The void we left allowed ISIS to emerge. We have had troops in Asia and Europe for 70 yrs after ending wars there and it is the model we need for the middle east.
2
Is anyone thinking about what happens to the Afghanis after the pullout? When Australia pulled out of Somalia, on schedule according to the mandate, the people who'd been working with the Australians to form a civil society were quickly slaughtered.
What's going to happen in Afghanistan, to everyone from the interpreters to the women's (and human) rights advocates, the schoolteachers, the health clinic workers?
Seriously, we're just going to let this happen? Again?
(And I hope you heard the echo on the last line. How many times do we have to see this same scenario unfold? How can we ever ask locals to work with us, to trust us, when from Iraq back to Vietnam, that's been a death sentence.)
What's going to happen in Afghanistan, to everyone from the interpreters to the women's (and human) rights advocates, the schoolteachers, the health clinic workers?
Seriously, we're just going to let this happen? Again?
(And I hope you heard the echo on the last line. How many times do we have to see this same scenario unfold? How can we ever ask locals to work with us, to trust us, when from Iraq back to Vietnam, that's been a death sentence.)
8
Leaving and saving our soldiers lives and our money always has an attraction. But the real question is, in the present world and present situation what is best for the US and the world. We have achieved the education of millions of Afgani women and also a higher social status for them. This is a good and important advancement. The new president seems to be earning a better chance to fight the Taliban. Yes, of each 1000 of our troops there at least 5 to 10 will die or be injured. These men and women have volunteered to be soldiers. A collapse of the Afgani regime will result in the deaths of thousands and the end of the increased human rights of millions. It seems a good decision that a small number of soldiers should sacrifice so that millions benefit.
2
How many of your immediate family are in the military? I wonder if you would feel the same if your son or daughter were drafted to go over there.
6
I can imagine, Afghanistan must have a been a beautiful place before war came to it. Snow on the surrounding mountains, fresh, clean water flowing into agriculturally lands, plenty of fruits, vegetables. Peace.
3
We have to stop listening to the people in the Pentagon. Let's hear from the soldiers, below field grade officer rank, who are in the field and who know what a hopeless mess Afghanistan is.
11
The Parliament waiting to be bribed before they confirm the Minister of Defense; so what is so unusual about it, we do it all the time in US Congress, we call it negotiations for Pork and campaign contributions.
It is interesting that the last two invasions by us, the Iraq invasion and the afghan invasion has a common thread when it comes to defining success. If we look at the Iraq war, we talk about the Awakening program, we bribed the fighters. We paid more so we were not killed and the enemy was killed by the same fighters. We established a mercenary army within Iraq. The same army now being paid by the Saudis to fight the Government of Iraq under various banners, such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Al-Nusrah in Syria and ISIS in Syria and Iraq.
Similar approaches were taken in making payments to various war lords in Afghanistan. The same war lords are sitting in the Parliament; what would one expect, horse trading goes on in a political process everywhere. Apparently they believe in Cash.
President Ghani and Abdullah Abdullah are good people, we need to support them to fix and negotiate a peace deal with the Taliban as there is no other solution, and you cannot kill all Taliban as they are indigenous to the area. They are not foreigners, they belong there and the sooner we realize this fact the better for all of us including Pakistan.
Afghanistan is a tribal society and will be long after we leave them. They have a system of governance which is quick and sometimes deadly.
It is interesting that the last two invasions by us, the Iraq invasion and the afghan invasion has a common thread when it comes to defining success. If we look at the Iraq war, we talk about the Awakening program, we bribed the fighters. We paid more so we were not killed and the enemy was killed by the same fighters. We established a mercenary army within Iraq. The same army now being paid by the Saudis to fight the Government of Iraq under various banners, such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Al-Nusrah in Syria and ISIS in Syria and Iraq.
Similar approaches were taken in making payments to various war lords in Afghanistan. The same war lords are sitting in the Parliament; what would one expect, horse trading goes on in a political process everywhere. Apparently they believe in Cash.
President Ghani and Abdullah Abdullah are good people, we need to support them to fix and negotiate a peace deal with the Taliban as there is no other solution, and you cannot kill all Taliban as they are indigenous to the area. They are not foreigners, they belong there and the sooner we realize this fact the better for all of us including Pakistan.
Afghanistan is a tribal society and will be long after we leave them. They have a system of governance which is quick and sometimes deadly.
March 9, 2015
The truth is we are stuck with one another – sure this editorializes the end of the American era – but that is the negation of infinity – for in terms of our Interconnected global world we all know to much and see the world journals to know alone is defining language that in fact is first not support by agreements in place, and as well the intelligence (‘s) that overt rightly and disallowing the Edward Snowden delusions of deciphering the known – as the black box theories of ruling governments are as much a matriarchal fixation for survival the savages rages of emotional traumas as witness in the great nations of Iraq and Syria . But the way the political disease is not exclusive to a particular sector –as example Ukraine rages for maturating identity as if the years of social education of the materialist philosophy would have offer remedy to modern adaptations. Again the postmodern literary authorship allows the warning of it use of post…… everywhere….. the more the news changes the more it repeats – but the great art for the times is inclusiveness for domestic and worldwide readership.
Jja Manhattan, N. Y. Never will I ever say post-Earth – for here the light of reason is our guide and fit to print…..
The truth is we are stuck with one another – sure this editorializes the end of the American era – but that is the negation of infinity – for in terms of our Interconnected global world we all know to much and see the world journals to know alone is defining language that in fact is first not support by agreements in place, and as well the intelligence (‘s) that overt rightly and disallowing the Edward Snowden delusions of deciphering the known – as the black box theories of ruling governments are as much a matriarchal fixation for survival the savages rages of emotional traumas as witness in the great nations of Iraq and Syria . But the way the political disease is not exclusive to a particular sector –as example Ukraine rages for maturating identity as if the years of social education of the materialist philosophy would have offer remedy to modern adaptations. Again the postmodern literary authorship allows the warning of it use of post…… everywhere….. the more the news changes the more it repeats – but the great art for the times is inclusiveness for domestic and worldwide readership.
Jja Manhattan, N. Y. Never will I ever say post-Earth – for here the light of reason is our guide and fit to print…..
1
I never viewed the 2001 Afghan invasion as anything but a knee-jerk reaction, an act of posturing by the warmongers.
But I wonder if a small presence next door to Pakistan might not be prudent given the rogue elements there that would like to seize a nuclear facility or two.
But I wonder if a small presence next door to Pakistan might not be prudent given the rogue elements there that would like to seize a nuclear facility or two.
4
In a recent post on TomDispatch, Andrew Bacevich observed that Defense Secretary Ash Carter is just a new water carrier for the neoconservative consensus (thus his near unanimous confirmation):
"So on his second day in office, for example, he dined with Kenneth Pollack, Michael O’Hanlon, and Robert Kagan, ranking national insecurity intellectuals and old Washington hands one and all." (Andrew Bacevich)
Delaying the drawdown of forces in Afghanistan is just a continuation of the failed policies of a militarized foreign policy made possible by a Know Nothing Congress.
"So on his second day in office, for example, he dined with Kenneth Pollack, Michael O’Hanlon, and Robert Kagan, ranking national insecurity intellectuals and old Washington hands one and all." (Andrew Bacevich)
Delaying the drawdown of forces in Afghanistan is just a continuation of the failed policies of a militarized foreign policy made possible by a Know Nothing Congress.
11
My suspicion is that our continued presence in Afghanistan has more to do with issues about Pakistan than Afghanistan. From a strategic standpoint, Pakistan is a much more important and difficult problem ... but, of course, the Administration can't / won't come out and lay those cards on the table.
5
This is a sage and realistic Editorial. If the pessimists are correct, Obama is in a lose-lose situation here because the American electorate has no further appetite for this conflict yet the Afghan insurgents have seemingly unlimited motivation, as well the prospect of aligning themselves with ISIS. However given American existing commitments to the war against the insurgents in Iraq, as well the vexing Syrian situation, it is probably better for Mr. Obama to pull out like Nixon did from Saigon with our hindquarters protected, rather than to stay too long and become mired in the seemingly inevitable reactive anti-Western bloodbath that, sadly, likely will follow.
2
This editorial is an understatement. The Western military presence in Afghanistan just goes on and on and on. What happened to the President who promised to get things done in that region and get American troops out of not only Afghanistan but also Iraq? All I see is a further, low-level war expanding to places like Syria, Libya and Yemen. As to "not being able to help a country that cannot help itself," people should look in the mirror and see if it is really help that is being offered.
I agree....
THERE are two main sources of Money that goes to Afghanistan that feeds extremism and corruption, namely the House of Saud and the US/EU.
SO the answer is simple, we must cut the Money flow from both sources and if we want to advance the cause of Humanity in Afghanistan, we should ONLY fund specific projects that improve Farming, fighting Opium production, Infrastructure, Education and Pubic Health along with training their security forces.
THERE are two main sources of Money that goes to Afghanistan that feeds extremism and corruption, namely the House of Saud and the US/EU.
SO the answer is simple, we must cut the Money flow from both sources and if we want to advance the cause of Humanity in Afghanistan, we should ONLY fund specific projects that improve Farming, fighting Opium production, Infrastructure, Education and Pubic Health along with training their security forces.
2
People say we should do this, we shouldn't do this. There is no we. There has never been a we. If there was a we, things would be rather different. For example, the wars would have ended a long time ago. There would be universal health care, as in every civilized country. There would not be this ridiculous level of inequality. The country would not be flooded with these extreme levels of unwanted immigration.
Right now we have a fake democracy. The Supreme Court tells us so every single day. Our military/intelligence regime tells us so every single day. Of course, people are allowed to blow off steam. That's where our petty dictators are so much cleverer than all the other petty dictators around the world.
Right now we have a fake democracy. The Supreme Court tells us so every single day. Our military/intelligence regime tells us so every single day. Of course, people are allowed to blow off steam. That's where our petty dictators are so much cleverer than all the other petty dictators around the world.
11
I don't see how maintaining a losing situation is a viable option, especially after 10 years. If we were to reinstitute the draft, I think viewpoints might change.
17
Several commenters argue that if we pull our of Afghanistan, ISIS will arrive, just as it did after we pulled out of Iraq.
ISIS didn't arise in Iraq because we pulled out of Iraq. ISIS arose in Iraq because we went into Iraq. According to Dexter Filkins in a recent New Yorker article, most ISIS commanders are former commanders in Saddam's army -- all given their freedom and intense hatred of the US when Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi army in the early hot summer of 2003.
Get out of Afghanistan, now.
ISIS didn't arise in Iraq because we pulled out of Iraq. ISIS arose in Iraq because we went into Iraq. According to Dexter Filkins in a recent New Yorker article, most ISIS commanders are former commanders in Saddam's army -- all given their freedom and intense hatred of the US when Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi army in the early hot summer of 2003.
Get out of Afghanistan, now.
20
The Afghan pullout should have taken place on 3 May 2011, the day after Osama bin Laden was shot and killed by U.S. Navy SEALS in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
Mission accomplished!
"Afghan forces have been getting killed and injured at a significantly higher rate than in 2014"? It's their holy war. Let them fight it.
Mission accomplished!
"Afghan forces have been getting killed and injured at a significantly higher rate than in 2014"? It's their holy war. Let them fight it.
8
Afghanistan needs to build its civilian infrastructure like the rest of South Asia. They have to learn to become secular like India so that rivalry between The Musilm sects in the neighborhood is under control. These steps will take a long time till education and other job opportunities become abundant.
Maybe a South Asian initiative need to be organized.
Maybe a South Asian initiative need to be organized.
1
Get out of Afghanistan! It's not worth another drop of our soldiers blood to continue this fools errand of trying to establish a working government there. 90% of the population's illiterate, with their tribal loyalties determined by best bribes and graft.
7
Afganistan is a failed state. Whoever attempts to drag it into the 21st century will fail. It had no assets other than opium poppies.
I presume that we stay there out of fear that it will become a "haven for terrorists." However, there are plenty of terrorist havens in the Middle East, one more would seem inconsequential.
Further, it is certain that our presence is a catalyst for recruitment of terrorists. If we depart, the various terrorist factions are likely to pre-occupy themselves with infighting. Let's leave them to it.....
I presume that we stay there out of fear that it will become a "haven for terrorists." However, there are plenty of terrorist havens in the Middle East, one more would seem inconsequential.
Further, it is certain that our presence is a catalyst for recruitment of terrorists. If we depart, the various terrorist factions are likely to pre-occupy themselves with infighting. Let's leave them to it.....
10
When George Bush started the Middle East Wars, Hosni Mubarak stated "The Middle East will go up in flames". It's flaming!
12
I assume all commenters in favor of extending our military presence in Afghanistan are actively encouraging their sons & daughters to enlist, or, if they are of the age to do so, will be joining up soon themselves. We really need a universal military draft again so that all of us are connected personally to the foreign policy decisions our elected officials make on our behalf.
29
So, you are saying that a draft will stop wars? That worked so well with two world wars, Korea and Vietnam, right?
1
A draft WITH NO EXEMPTIONS (pacifists could be medics), no National Guard service as a safe place for the kids of the rich, probably would cut down on our wars of choice.
4
As USA tax payers still pay the bills for the dozens of US military bases, and tens of thousands of military personnel, in South Korea and Germany, six decades and more after the end of war in those countries, it does seem kind of hasty to empty American bases in Afghanistan after only 1 decade.
7
Do we really believe that extending the stay of US Military by one or two years will really improve things. The Taliban is not only powerful in the south-west (Kandahar and Helmand) but also now in the North East (Kunduz) and the mountain areas between Kabul and Mazar Sharif. Kabul itself is increasingly dangerous for westerns; both the US Embassy and right next to it ISAF have become fortresses stuck in permanent hiding. Under Bush and Obama nothing was accomplished and things will only get worse. Time to admit that we lost another ludicrous war and get out.
7
All we can do is train the Afghan troops & give them aid, we should not fight their battles. If they do not have the resolve to fight there is nothing else we can do, & should get out of there immediately.Should the Taliban take Afghanistan over & become a threat to our interests, we can keep them in line with guided missiles & drones but lets not lose anymore people in a useless war.
5
See Vietnam.
1
Already have- it has great food.
1
Out out out. We are selling the Saudis billions of dollars in arms (war stuff IS what we export)..so let the Saudis handle Afghanistan. What are all their weapons for anyway? And let Iran handle IS in Iraq. We need to stop having an economy that is based solely on weapons, oil and banking. Let's use that money here to repair our infrastructure with government jobs (not for-profits because they use the cheapest labor and materials).this would be a good jobs creation project using American labor and materials. Let our weapons manufacturers learn to repair bridges and make fast speed railroads. The war biz owns us so this won't happen. Their goal is perpetual war and average Ameircans who are not profiting from the war business have had it.
10
You are correct, let's high tail it out of the whole region, let AQAP and ISIS control the region, they seem like good folks. I am sure that will end well. People are so blind to the total lack of coherent policy coming out of the administration.
This will have reprecussions for decades to come if we do not take control NOW.
If you think the Shah, Mubarek, Assad were bad, what do you think whole countries controlled by the aforementioned groups will be like?
It's too bad that Americans do not realize that when we are not engaged in a positive way in world issues the world suffers.
This will have reprecussions for decades to come if we do not take control NOW.
If you think the Shah, Mubarek, Assad were bad, what do you think whole countries controlled by the aforementioned groups will be like?
It's too bad that Americans do not realize that when we are not engaged in a positive way in world issues the world suffers.
3
So, your idea of engaging in a positive way is taking the "shock & awe" position, roam the world looking for third world county's to further destroy, while installing democracy and the love of a Christian God? And I must not forget, make those nations safe for our corporations to do the heavy lifting in the exploitation of the workforce and their environment.....
3
I love it - members of Parliament are waiting to be bribed to do their jobs. And Afghani soldiers are getting killed or deserting. So they desert and we are supposed to support them? I think not.
That place is a sewer full of thieves and corrupt scum as far as the eye can see. It is a waste of time staying there. Pull out everyone and close the door behind you.
Anyone who says the Taliban will take over the country and team up with ISIS and go on a worldwide campaign of terror can roll up your sleeves, pick up a rifle, and go there to fight the good fight.
That place is a sewer full of thieves and corrupt scum as far as the eye can see. It is a waste of time staying there. Pull out everyone and close the door behind you.
Anyone who says the Taliban will take over the country and team up with ISIS and go on a worldwide campaign of terror can roll up your sleeves, pick up a rifle, and go there to fight the good fight.
9
Once the Taliban was overthrown, and especially once Osama bin Laden was killed, there was NO cause for the US to continue throwing the lives of its soldiers away on the trash heap of history. And yet both Republicans and Democrats (including Hillary) continue to support this stupidity.
15
This is the same editorial board that pushed the withdwprawal in Iraq. A withdrawal that was responsible for turning victory into defeat. AQ in Iraq was crushed and the US had gained the support and respect of the Summi tribesman. With the quick withdrawal and the president's failure to get a Status of Forces Agreement signed ISIS was off and running and now we're in the advent of another serious war. Finish the job in Afganastan so when we leave we won't have another Iraq.
2
This is also the same paper that advocated for our illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 which brought us ISIL and the disasters continuing in the region today. We need fewer wars. We can't afford them.
3
Victory into defeat? Any prospect for victory in Iraq was gone shortly after the fall of Saddam. Like total ignoramuses, we invade a country on false pretenses without considering the religious and ethnic tensions of the country, sent inadequate forces to maintain order, fired the Iraqi governing structure and its military creating a hostile population who then sided with our enemy terrorists against us and supported an Iraqi leader whose common interests were more attuned to Iran than to us. You can believe the fairy tale that the surge wrested victory, but the truth is the surge had little impact. By that time, Iraqi society was segregated in hostile Shi'ite and Sunni neighborhoods and the Sunnis turned against Al Queda, thereby lessening the raging civil war we created. You cling to the myth that every problem has an American military solution. It doesn't. Victory is Iraq was never ours to win or lose by late spring of 2003.
11
What "victory" did you see in Iraq? A victory for who? Most of us only saw Haliburton, Bechtel et al being victorious (or at least making victorious profits)
9
The naïveté of entering Afghanistan some many years ago still boggles my mind. I don't know why we didn't just bomb the training camps and be done. Of course the military is promoting its role and wants to continue. What fun is a peacetime force?
14
A handful of extremists destroyed the United States. (Our response: kill a few hundred thousand civilians.) What a mess.
1
If peace were to break out our owners would lose a lot of money.
1
How do you help a country that cannot help itself?
If over 10 years of American (ok multinational) occupation has not nurtured the seed of democracy, individual freedoms and liberal law, a couple more years won't either.
Frankly the best hope for Afghanistan at this point is a strong and wily military commander who won't ultimately end up a megalomaniac. Someone who can rally the troops, tread a careful line with Pakistan and someone who makes progress rather than religion the cornerstone of his policies.
Wishful thinking though. In reality, the country will more likely disintegrate into fiefdoms controlled by individual warlords - each intent on protecting their territories and the opium or other resources. Chances are that the ISIS will gain a foothold, no doubt supported by the Sunni arab states to provide a distraction to Iran's growing influence. Not too dissimilar to pre-911 Afghanistan. Just substitute Al-Queda for ISIS.
The only consolation for the US is that they didn't leave the country worse off than it was before like Iraq.
If over 10 years of American (ok multinational) occupation has not nurtured the seed of democracy, individual freedoms and liberal law, a couple more years won't either.
Frankly the best hope for Afghanistan at this point is a strong and wily military commander who won't ultimately end up a megalomaniac. Someone who can rally the troops, tread a careful line with Pakistan and someone who makes progress rather than religion the cornerstone of his policies.
Wishful thinking though. In reality, the country will more likely disintegrate into fiefdoms controlled by individual warlords - each intent on protecting their territories and the opium or other resources. Chances are that the ISIS will gain a foothold, no doubt supported by the Sunni arab states to provide a distraction to Iran's growing influence. Not too dissimilar to pre-911 Afghanistan. Just substitute Al-Queda for ISIS.
The only consolation for the US is that they didn't leave the country worse off than it was before like Iraq.
12
"The only consolation for the US is that they didn't leave the country worse off than it was before like Iraq."
"Mussolini [Saddam] made the trains run on time." There, fixed it for you.
"Mussolini [Saddam] made the trains run on time." There, fixed it for you.
Afghanistan will go the way the Afghani people take it. They will never be like Americans and Kabul will never be like a Midwestern American city. Live with it because we can't change it. Just as we never lost China in the 1940's because it was never ours to lose, we can't lose Iraq or Afghanistan because they are not ours to lose. We would do far better providing humanitarian assistance to these countries than military assistance.
1
We had our chance, and took our eye off the ball. If we had stayed focused and done Afghanistan right from the start, things might be different. I agree that a few more months will not make a difference in the long run. I cringe when I hear Generals say we're going to train an Arab or Afghan Army in a couple of years. It can't be done - read about Sir John Glubb, who spent a lifetime training the Jordanian Army and didn't quite get there. I worked with the Saudi Air Force for a year, and it was a frustrating experience.
3
There are some in the military and some in the Congress [John McCain for example] who are still refighting the Vietnam War.
They believe if only the US had stayed the course and fought harder the US could have "won" [whatever that means] the Vietnam War.
They see withdrawal from Afghan as making the same mistake.
They were wrong about Vietnam and are now wrong about Afghan.
We should thank McCain for his military service and recognize his horrible treatment as a POW.
But we can not let that experience [horrible as it was] dictate US policy today.
They believe if only the US had stayed the course and fought harder the US could have "won" [whatever that means] the Vietnam War.
They see withdrawal from Afghan as making the same mistake.
They were wrong about Vietnam and are now wrong about Afghan.
We should thank McCain for his military service and recognize his horrible treatment as a POW.
But we can not let that experience [horrible as it was] dictate US policy today.
9
Why single out John McCain, as he is a senator? Read the Constitution; the President is commander-in-chief.
1
The specter of ISIS stares the US in the face. The specter of corrupt ineffectual rule stares the US in the face. The Taliban can wait as long as necessary to win this war outright. Certainly some elements in the Pakistani military would like to see their Taliban allies take control.
1
There will never be a successful close to this war. There can't be. There never was a cohesive, united territory to defend. We call such things nations. Wars are traditionally fought to defend nations.
Afghanistan was never anything close to a nation. It is a loosely defined territory of tribes run by warlords and chiefs. It is an undeveloped, mostly rural region.
We tried to turn it into a nation. We tried to force it to have strong central government and all the infrastructure that goes with it. All we got is bribery, corruption, poppy fields and the Taliban. The tribes are still there. The warlords are still there.
Afghanistan will never be what we want it to be. So why die trying? It's over. Get out and let the warlords have at it.
Afghanistan was never anything close to a nation. It is a loosely defined territory of tribes run by warlords and chiefs. It is an undeveloped, mostly rural region.
We tried to turn it into a nation. We tried to force it to have strong central government and all the infrastructure that goes with it. All we got is bribery, corruption, poppy fields and the Taliban. The tribes are still there. The warlords are still there.
Afghanistan will never be what we want it to be. So why die trying? It's over. Get out and let the warlords have at it.
9
In October of 2001, I attended a protest vigil in San Francisco to urge the United States government to pursue Osama bin Laden as a criminal and bring him to justice that way rather than go to war in Afghanistan.
Articles and interviews appeared in the progressive media in the autumn of 2001. They warned of the dangers of embarking on a war in the Middle East, and particularly one in Afghanistan.
History was cited. Writers and speakers referred to the designation of Afghanistan as "the graveyard of empires," a phrased reportedly coined by an Afghan foreign minister in the early 20th century.
Alexander the Great had fought to conquer and hold the area now called Afghanistan. He failed.
The British attempted the same thing. And the country was the site of the largest massacre of British soldiers in the history of the empire. Sixteen thousand troops were killed in a single week; only one man, a doctor, survived to tell the tale.
The Russian empire failed.
Now the American empire is leaving with its tail between its legs. Countless human beings --American and Afghans most prominently-- have been killed and injured in almost 14 years of war and occupation. Countless lives have been ruined. Close to a trillion dollars desperately needed here at home has been squandered.
Our leaders consistently either don't know history or refuse to believe it. Thus they choose to repeat it.
Another historical fact worth noting now: every empire has fallen and disappeared into oblivion.
Articles and interviews appeared in the progressive media in the autumn of 2001. They warned of the dangers of embarking on a war in the Middle East, and particularly one in Afghanistan.
History was cited. Writers and speakers referred to the designation of Afghanistan as "the graveyard of empires," a phrased reportedly coined by an Afghan foreign minister in the early 20th century.
Alexander the Great had fought to conquer and hold the area now called Afghanistan. He failed.
The British attempted the same thing. And the country was the site of the largest massacre of British soldiers in the history of the empire. Sixteen thousand troops were killed in a single week; only one man, a doctor, survived to tell the tale.
The Russian empire failed.
Now the American empire is leaving with its tail between its legs. Countless human beings --American and Afghans most prominently-- have been killed and injured in almost 14 years of war and occupation. Countless lives have been ruined. Close to a trillion dollars desperately needed here at home has been squandered.
Our leaders consistently either don't know history or refuse to believe it. Thus they choose to repeat it.
Another historical fact worth noting now: every empire has fallen and disappeared into oblivion.
10
Our troop withdrawal from Afghanistan is long over due.
However, the Afghan troop withdrawal needs to be real, not like the phony end of the Iraq War, which really never ended and now is escalating back up again.
The Middle East and North African conflicts are endless and they should not be our fight. These regional conflicts have been fought over and over and over again for thousands of years. These are deep rooted religious, ethnic and cultural conflicts, non of which are our fight.
The nations and the people in these regions need to fight or settle their own fights and their citizens must determine their own fate.
America alone can't impose peace or impose democracy where it's not wanted. We have failed at that too many times.
It's time to bring all of our troops home, end our military insanity in that region, and put our troops to work here in the U.S. engineering and rebuilding our crumbling and failing critical infrastructure systems.
However, the Afghan troop withdrawal needs to be real, not like the phony end of the Iraq War, which really never ended and now is escalating back up again.
The Middle East and North African conflicts are endless and they should not be our fight. These regional conflicts have been fought over and over and over again for thousands of years. These are deep rooted religious, ethnic and cultural conflicts, non of which are our fight.
The nations and the people in these regions need to fight or settle their own fights and their citizens must determine their own fate.
America alone can't impose peace or impose democracy where it's not wanted. We have failed at that too many times.
It's time to bring all of our troops home, end our military insanity in that region, and put our troops to work here in the U.S. engineering and rebuilding our crumbling and failing critical infrastructure systems.
10
The editorial's underlying premise - the free-spending generals of the Pentagon should be kept on a short leash - is valid. But it misses two other points, one favoring remaining in Afghanistan with more than a skeleton force, the other in favor of forcing the DoD to stick to the timetable. On the former, the Afghans (unlike the Iraqis) still harbor a generous amount of goodwill towards the US. To keep them in the fight against the Taliban/al-Qaeda/ISIS or next threat emerging beyond the Khyber pass requires the US to show some confidence in the Afghans through a visible and effective boots on the ground presence, though this would not require as many as 10,000 troops (perhaps half that size could do). On the latter point, the many Special Inspector General reports on waste in Afghanistan demonstrate the Pentagon leadership culture lacks the discipline to effectively manage a protracted war effort of the likes of this one. Cash is dispensed through a spigot, and various services compete with each other for political reasons to be part of the fight, without regard to whether such spending or personnel decisions make sense (sailors by the tens of thousands have been deployed to a country without a large body of water, because that keeps the Navy happy). But the editors' bottom line is correct - make the generals toe the line, at least for now.
3
Sobering thoughts about the ever-present urge to stay longer that prudent, tempting a good relationship to go sour, and delaying responsibility in taking control of the tasks at hand, the rebuilding of civil society. The aura of indispensability and irreplaceability is a dangerous game, as it feeds on our ever-hungry ego for recognition and glory. So, lets allow the Afghans take care of themselves, its about time.
12
You are both technically right and disastrously wrong. Technically right in that our current strategy is little more than doing as little as possible while bleeding our resources like a dripping faucet. Wrong in that you make the case better than I that the current government is doomed, which will return us to square one: a non-state breeding ground for terror.
Mr. Obama can consider the consequences of leaving his successor with Islamic terror on a stronger footing than at any point in history. Or perhaps he can muster the will to solve the problem and lead, even if that requires hard choices and a commitment of troops to get the job done.
Naaaaah!
Mr. Obama can consider the consequences of leaving his successor with Islamic terror on a stronger footing than at any point in history. Or perhaps he can muster the will to solve the problem and lead, even if that requires hard choices and a commitment of troops to get the job done.
Naaaaah!
What does Islamic terror have to do with Afghanistan? If our foreign policy is going to be set by people running around with their hair on fire screaming ISIS we may just as well deploy all of our troops overseas right now and forever.
4
Remind us again what the "job" is? Breeding grounds for terrorists are all over the world. Committing troops actually breeds more of them. And the Taliban is the least likely to realistically threaten the US. Have you been paying attention the last 15 years?
1
In 1877, President Hayes pulled the Union troops out of the South, leading to the collapse of Reconstruction, the imposition of Jim Crow laws, and the near re-enslavement of the black population for almost a century.
In that light, someone should ask President Obama what he thinks will happen to the women and girls of Afghanistan after he pulls the American troops out in 2016.
In that light, someone should ask President Obama what he thinks will happen to the women and girls of Afghanistan after he pulls the American troops out in 2016.
1
Perhaps he'd ask when will we finally learn that we can't change these primitive people's backwards views on women's rights, jihad, or anything else. The decent people there will eventually have to decide on their own to face down their corrupt government and religious fanatics. We can't do it for them.
4
Leave at once, pull all the troops out, leave nothing. The idea that Afghan can be saved is delusional. Read the article in the Times Magazine yesterday, if you have any doubts we are being had for our money.
18
The initial reason for the American invasion and occupation of Afghanistan after September 11, 2001 was the fact that al Qaeda's top leadership and training facilities were in that nation. Eliminating al Qaeda and it's ability to mount another attack on the American homeland was the only goal.
America had been fine with the Taliban being in power Afghanistan as engineered by Pakistani intelligence, military and political leaders after the defeat of the Soviet Union. The Taliban did not attack nor threaten to attack the American homeland.
Ethnic conflicts are the basis for an on-going civil war in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan. Afghanistan is 42% Pashtun but most of the 50 million Pashtun live in Pakistan where they are 15% of the nation. About 44% of Pakistanis are Punjabi. The Taliban is all Pashtun. But not all Pashtun are Taliban.
There is no American military solution to this Afghanistan conflict. The only things America has not tried are diplomacy, humanitarian aid and commerce along with some humility and empathy.
America has been repeatedly humbled and defeated by choosing the least motivated honorable popular side in foreign racial ethnic sectarian political conflicts whose interests and values do not align with America's. Much of that lack of support arises from the appearance and reality of American cynicism, duplicity and hypocrisy.
America had been fine with the Taliban being in power Afghanistan as engineered by Pakistani intelligence, military and political leaders after the defeat of the Soviet Union. The Taliban did not attack nor threaten to attack the American homeland.
Ethnic conflicts are the basis for an on-going civil war in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan. Afghanistan is 42% Pashtun but most of the 50 million Pashtun live in Pakistan where they are 15% of the nation. About 44% of Pakistanis are Punjabi. The Taliban is all Pashtun. But not all Pashtun are Taliban.
There is no American military solution to this Afghanistan conflict. The only things America has not tried are diplomacy, humanitarian aid and commerce along with some humility and empathy.
America has been repeatedly humbled and defeated by choosing the least motivated honorable popular side in foreign racial ethnic sectarian political conflicts whose interests and values do not align with America's. Much of that lack of support arises from the appearance and reality of American cynicism, duplicity and hypocrisy.
6
What's happening in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria is a political and religious civil war. We do not need to have any military presence there as Vietnam taught us the folly of inserting ourselves into someone else's civil war.
Unfortunately, The-Military-Industrial-Complex is in the saddle when it comes to America's wars so we will be spending a considerable amount of blood and treasure for the foreseeable future in the Middle East.
C
Unfortunately, The-Military-Industrial-Complex is in the saddle when it comes to America's wars so we will be spending a considerable amount of blood and treasure for the foreseeable future in the Middle East.
C
28
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Dwight D. Eisenhower, Farewell Address, 17 Jan, 1961.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, Farewell Address, 17 Jan, 1961.
27
it's the congress-military-industrial complex, as it was originally called.
3
As if the commander-in-chief has nothing to do with the military.
Although, I do see why you say congress is involved; for example, Senators Feinstein and Boxer desperately tried to get the Air Force to buy more F22 Raptors than even the Pentagon wanted.
Although, I do see why you say congress is involved; for example, Senators Feinstein and Boxer desperately tried to get the Air Force to buy more F22 Raptors than even the Pentagon wanted.
1
Not being content to dispense advice on economics with no economists on board, the editorial board now presumes to offer military strategy without any expertise in that area either.
I prefer to take advice from our military leaders who actually have some first hand insight.
I prefer to take advice from our military leaders who actually have some first hand insight.
Look at where "advice from military leaders" has gotten us. Through various "surges" we were going to "finally " drive the terrorists back to their caves. We even tried paying them to not attack us! So much for expert military advice.
5
our military leaders do not lead the country, nor should they. The military has been spectacularly wrong in their judgements, as has the executive branch for that matter.
1
Will the US be pulling out of Afghanistan any time soon?
Easy enough to make an educated guess:
1. Open up Google Earth.
2. Type "Bagram, Afghanistan" in the Search window and hit return.
3. Spend 10 minutes or so (it will take at least that long) checking out the 2-mile long airport and military base that will appear -- hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of buildings; aircraft large, small and in between; etc.,etc,etc.; billions upon billions of US dollars undoubtedly spent to build and maintain all this.
4. Remind yourself that this is just one of several large US facilities in Afghanistan.
5. When you're done, ask yourself again:
Will the US be pulling out of Afghanistan any time soon?
Easy enough to make an educated guess:
1. Open up Google Earth.
2. Type "Bagram, Afghanistan" in the Search window and hit return.
3. Spend 10 minutes or so (it will take at least that long) checking out the 2-mile long airport and military base that will appear -- hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of buildings; aircraft large, small and in between; etc.,etc,etc.; billions upon billions of US dollars undoubtedly spent to build and maintain all this.
4. Remind yourself that this is just one of several large US facilities in Afghanistan.
5. When you're done, ask yourself again:
Will the US be pulling out of Afghanistan any time soon?
5
"the Afghan war to a successful close"
Because the American military is forced to fight with one hand behind its back, with responsibilities more akin to a community organizer than an army, there is no success in Afghanistan.
One would think the smartest guy in the room would learn from leaving a country too soon.
Because the American military is forced to fight with one hand behind its back, with responsibilities more akin to a community organizer than an army, there is no success in Afghanistan.
One would think the smartest guy in the room would learn from leaving a country too soon.
2
Your belief that there will ever be a time that's not "too soon" for our military leaders is adorable.
1
The argument that it will become a "hot bed for radical terrorists" which is always the government's excuse to destroy the lives of our servicemen and women is ringing real hollow. Non of our wimpy, fearful leaders actually has skin in the game.
The entire world through social media is a "hot bed for terrorism". Wake up! Put down the Morse Code, enter 2015, and listen when security experts keep telling you over and over and over that cyber terrorism is our biggest national threat. They don't need to overtake a village in the middle of nowhere. All they need is a laptop to spew their hateful message. so recruitment from England to Canada isn't going to combated with USA boots on the ground.
And start being honest. We really had no business in Afghanistan. Almost all of the bombers and the mastermind were Saudi nationals and were funded by Saudis and fed a steady hateful diet of Wahabbi from birth. All to deflect the royal pillage. Throwing down crushing sanctions on Saudi Arabia until they gave up Bin Laden would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Instead, we got two incredibly ill conceived, ill prepared for, and ill orchestrated wars.
The entire world through social media is a "hot bed for terrorism". Wake up! Put down the Morse Code, enter 2015, and listen when security experts keep telling you over and over and over that cyber terrorism is our biggest national threat. They don't need to overtake a village in the middle of nowhere. All they need is a laptop to spew their hateful message. so recruitment from England to Canada isn't going to combated with USA boots on the ground.
And start being honest. We really had no business in Afghanistan. Almost all of the bombers and the mastermind were Saudi nationals and were funded by Saudis and fed a steady hateful diet of Wahabbi from birth. All to deflect the royal pillage. Throwing down crushing sanctions on Saudi Arabia until they gave up Bin Laden would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Instead, we got two incredibly ill conceived, ill prepared for, and ill orchestrated wars.
8
you have this backwards. Bin Laden attacked the Royal house of Saudi. The Saudis could not give up Bin Laden because he did not live in Saudi.
It seems the whole Islamic Middle East is just a giant madhouse. As awful as it is to witness what is happening, maybe the only way for us is to just stand back and watch it all implode. Perhaps after that something new will come about. As I read this, I realize that it sounds very uncaring. I just wonder, sometimes if you are witnessing the death of someone and want to save them, the best thing you can really do is to just let nature take its course. I don't know that this is the right thing here, maybe its just an expression of exasperation. Its for the professional politicians, diplomats, and military leaders to make that call. I'm sure it's not an easy job.
2
No cause to delay? Well there is if it's all been about US and not them. Our strategically placed military bases need to be safe and operable for future military and economic endeavors in the area - such as safely extracting the trillion dollars worth of rare earth minerals. Or taking on Iran. The world is our oyster.
Our national occupation is now a global war of occupation via military colonies, aka 'bases', which sometimes house small cities of Americans. It's how we ensure the survival and success of our status as a Superpower, aka Empire. The fact is our economy would crash and burn with just the prospect of Peace. So would any President who attempts to pull such a stunt.
Let every nation know that we will pay any price, bear any burden, and meet any hardship... to perpetuate endless wars.
Our national occupation is now a global war of occupation via military colonies, aka 'bases', which sometimes house small cities of Americans. It's how we ensure the survival and success of our status as a Superpower, aka Empire. The fact is our economy would crash and burn with just the prospect of Peace. So would any President who attempts to pull such a stunt.
Let every nation know that we will pay any price, bear any burden, and meet any hardship... to perpetuate endless wars.
7
Very true. Our lawmakers will perpetuate war after war after war just as long as the wealthy do not have to pay for it or send their offspring to join the battle.
Just curious - can anyone tell me how many Senators have children or grandchildren in the military fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq or some other sewer overseas?
Just curious - can anyone tell me how many Senators have children or grandchildren in the military fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq or some other sewer overseas?
2
It is all about keeping the illusion going. The illusion that the last two wars were just and in the interest of the American people. The illusion that out military is defending our interests, the illusion that our leadership is working on the final victory over evil, the illusion that peace and prosperity is just one last battle away.
The reality must not sink in. The reality that our military has not won a war in 70 years, the reality that we need a brutal police force and mass incarceration here to keep the population in check, the reality that we print money like mad because the real money is not there to support the sick system, the reality that our politicians are as corrupt as the Afghan's.
Keep the show going at all costs, public health and education are sacrificed, the environment spoiled, and many human lives destroyed for the greatest show on earth.
The reality must not sink in. The reality that our military has not won a war in 70 years, the reality that we need a brutal police force and mass incarceration here to keep the population in check, the reality that we print money like mad because the real money is not there to support the sick system, the reality that our politicians are as corrupt as the Afghan's.
Keep the show going at all costs, public health and education are sacrificed, the environment spoiled, and many human lives destroyed for the greatest show on earth.
17
Fact: we have lost the War in Afghanistan. The shellacking we took there - thanks to the demented "slam dunk/walk in the park" warmongers Vice President Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, President George W. Bush and Karl Rove is a fait accompli - a "mission failed". Pull out all the troops; don't slow down the pull out. We lost the 20 year war in Vietnam. No amount of varnishing the facts will change the reality of these two American defeats. President G.W. Bush started the War in Afghanistan in 2001, and the War in Iraq in 2003. The Taliban is still busy in Afghanistan and Iraq. And now the New Caliphate has an African partner in Boko Haram. Who knows if the Taliban and ISIS will join forces to oust the infidels, the Dhimmi invaders from the Middle East? The sooner we draw down our troops from the quagmire of these two failed wars that we have been engaged in since 2001 the better.
21
The Pentagon and their GOP allies are just trying to run out the clock on the administration in the hopes of a neo-con restoration in January 2017 so that they can go back in in force. Hopefully the president doesn't cave and the voters don't bite and we can completely extricate ourselves from the last remnant of W's ill-advised expeditions.
6
Enough is enough!
Let America get completely out of Afghanistan now.
Not another drop of young American blood, or scintilla of energy and effort, or another dollar should be shed in this medieval and corrupt failed nation!
Let America get completely out of Afghanistan now.
Not another drop of young American blood, or scintilla of energy and effort, or another dollar should be shed in this medieval and corrupt failed nation!
26
I would bet that the Energy Industry might take issue with the notion that there is no cause to delay the exit from Afghanistan. Neither the US or the Exxonmobil's of the world are willing to slink off and leave the Taliban in charge of the Central Asian Plain. Afghanistan is the Shangri La of gas pipeline transmission dreamers, and the race to build an American dominated pipeline from Turkmenistan through the Helmand to Pakistan is still on.
I mean what was the point of the War in Afghanistan if not to block the Iran to Pakistan to China and India pipeline, ironically called, "the peace pipeline" from ever competing with American Independents? The only player in this game who may want peace to break out is Iran. Without the pressure of Military force applied by the West: Iran wins at what was once recognized, before the usefulness of the War on Terror was discovered by propagandists, as a legitimate business competition.
The George W Bush negotiations with the Taliban fell flat, because those pesky Talibaners knew the value of gas transit fees. Now anticipating victory, I am sure that these Pashtun Mountain Men will drive a bargain which will be as hard for the Oilmen to swallow as were the monetary demands of Hugo Chavez and Muammar Gaddafi to digest.
I would bet that hundreds of millions have been spent, and billions of dollars in economic damage inflicted to contain Iran by the claim of a nuclear Weaponization program. What no War! Was it all for nothing?
I mean what was the point of the War in Afghanistan if not to block the Iran to Pakistan to China and India pipeline, ironically called, "the peace pipeline" from ever competing with American Independents? The only player in this game who may want peace to break out is Iran. Without the pressure of Military force applied by the West: Iran wins at what was once recognized, before the usefulness of the War on Terror was discovered by propagandists, as a legitimate business competition.
The George W Bush negotiations with the Taliban fell flat, because those pesky Talibaners knew the value of gas transit fees. Now anticipating victory, I am sure that these Pashtun Mountain Men will drive a bargain which will be as hard for the Oilmen to swallow as were the monetary demands of Hugo Chavez and Muammar Gaddafi to digest.
I would bet that hundreds of millions have been spent, and billions of dollars in economic damage inflicted to contain Iran by the claim of a nuclear Weaponization program. What no War! Was it all for nothing?
8
Does anyone seriously think that any type of positive change is going to occur in the next couple of years in these countries? Let's stop being naive; the only reason they want us there is for the corrupt leaders to continue to syphon off our wealth for their bank accounts and palaces in Dubai. And I'm really tired of paying for them.
30
If we leave now there is a big chance, and it will probably happen The Taliban will take over the Central government again with other parts of the country run by the Tribes of the region. The Taliban will align with ISIS and have Pakistan next in their sights. We handled this war wrong, putting all our resource into Iraq. We should stay now with at least 20,000 troops for support and protection of infrastructure projects.
4
Infrastructure projects? How about focusing time, effort, and taxpayer dollars on infrastructure projects right here in the good old USA???
Pakistan can hold its own against ISIS and the Taliban. If they cannot it's too bad for them. We have no business being over there. None! But if there are people willing to grab a rifle, form their own militia of like-minded warmongers, and fly over there to fight the good fight, I say bully for you! Go do it! Just keep the rest of the USA out of it.
Pakistan can hold its own against ISIS and the Taliban. If they cannot it's too bad for them. We have no business being over there. None! But if there are people willing to grab a rifle, form their own militia of like-minded warmongers, and fly over there to fight the good fight, I say bully for you! Go do it! Just keep the rest of the USA out of it.
3
It's going to happen anyway unless, as the Editorial states there is a major change in the way that the country is governed and corruption is routed out. Fat chance that is going to happen any time soon. Those troops will stay there ... forever.
Every political leader that votes to continue this meat grinder for nought should have to send a child to be stationed at a FOB in Afghanistan, while hosting at their expense a severely wounded service person.
Let them change the bedpans for the duration.
Maybe then they would get it.
All we have given Afghanistan has been stolen or sold to people who really hate us.
Enough with financing our own demise.
Let them change the bedpans for the duration.
Maybe then they would get it.
All we have given Afghanistan has been stolen or sold to people who really hate us.
Enough with financing our own demise.
86
Every political leader that votes to continue this meat grinder for nought should have to go PERSONALLY to Afghan and engage in combat.
5
The Congress gets it! They just don't care because there are trillions of dollars to be made on gas transmission and mining operations in Afghanistan. K Street, which we all know writes legislation for the Congress to approve demanded this war, and they could care less who bleeds for it. They know that it will be lower class, highly expendable, American Males, who will pay the price of their concupiscence.
Everyone who has ever invaded Afghanistan has payed the same price for their error. For example: This latest attempt to control the Central Asian Plain represents the fourth time that Britain has been kicked out by the same sort of Afghani Hill Billies. Take my word for it as an ex USMC grunt: No one in Washington will lose a moments sleep over this latest tragedy of American Youth. Outside of money and power, they just don't care.
Everyone who has ever invaded Afghanistan has payed the same price for their error. For example: This latest attempt to control the Central Asian Plain represents the fourth time that Britain has been kicked out by the same sort of Afghani Hill Billies. Take my word for it as an ex USMC grunt: No one in Washington will lose a moments sleep over this latest tragedy of American Youth. Outside of money and power, they just don't care.
4
Agreed! And if they're too old or lame or cowardly to fight, they can set up a desk in a tent and do their job from just behind the front lines. Give them a cell phone and a laptop and let them have at it! You don't have to be in Washington to represent us.
Senator McCain, are you listening?
Senator McCain, are you listening?
3
According to President Obama, American military involvement in Afghanistan ended on December 29, 2014. The war in Afghanistan is over. Except for that part about the 10,000 U.S. troops. And the combat missions.
Mission Accomplished.
Mission Accomplished.
18
Another one of the blunders of Barry. Afganistan is just another country waiting for ISIS to ckaim....
9
ISIS can have it. Maybe they'll burn down the poppy plants and reduce the amount of heroin in the world.
1
No, Barry inherited the blunders and is trying to cut our losses. You have to get over this sick idea that we own and should control the whole world, everywhere, all the time. We've created many more monsters than we have slain.
1
"Another one of the blunders of Barry"
It would indeed be a blunder if President Obama acquiesced to the Pentagon's request to extend the US troop deadline.
And since you bring it up, who are we fighting there anyway? ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Pakistanis, Boko Haram, Afghan warlords, the Iranians, corrupt Afghan officials? Some or all of the above?
I thought I had it down but you confused me there with your reference to ISIS?
It would indeed be a blunder if President Obama acquiesced to the Pentagon's request to extend the US troop deadline.
And since you bring it up, who are we fighting there anyway? ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Pakistanis, Boko Haram, Afghan warlords, the Iranians, corrupt Afghan officials? Some or all of the above?
I thought I had it down but you confused me there with your reference to ISIS?
1
Two huge factors that will influence the future of Afghanistan are the competence of Afghan military leadership and the role of Pakistan.
It is no surprise that the Afghan Parliament is trying to sell the top military spot, politicization and corruption led to the rapid collapse of the post-US Iraqi Army.
And common goals with Pakistan in defeating militant groups on the border has to replace the support for these groups by Pakistan intelligence.
Without resolving these two issues, there is no solution. But it appears that both Pakistan and Afghan leaders want to avoid an ISIS type situation within their countries, so US pressure along these lines with a firm exit timetable might have a better result than in Iraq under the incompetent all Maliki.
It is no surprise that the Afghan Parliament is trying to sell the top military spot, politicization and corruption led to the rapid collapse of the post-US Iraqi Army.
And common goals with Pakistan in defeating militant groups on the border has to replace the support for these groups by Pakistan intelligence.
Without resolving these two issues, there is no solution. But it appears that both Pakistan and Afghan leaders want to avoid an ISIS type situation within their countries, so US pressure along these lines with a firm exit timetable might have a better result than in Iraq under the incompetent all Maliki.
4
It is time to to call it a day
We really should be on our way,
That zany Dick Cheney
Tuned tranquil lives rainy,
Years in which there's been hell to pay!
We really should be on our way,
That zany Dick Cheney
Tuned tranquil lives rainy,
Years in which there's been hell to pay!
27
News for you, dude; Cheney has been out of office for SIX YEARS and President Obama has been ostensibly in charge since then.
You need to rhyme less and read more.
You need to rhyme less and read more.
3
...and news for you dude. Just because someone is out of power for a number of years, does not absolve them of the horrors they have perpetrated or the wrongs they have inflicted.
6
Although I am not a Dick Cheney fan, I must say I agree with you.
Ask Hillary & the GOP potentials for their specific thoughts on maintaining a military presence in Afghanistan. Pin them down.
14
Commenting on Afghanistan, and the never ending morass that region of the world is known for, eventually becomes entirely too repetitive. Tribal wars that have persisted for centuries, constantly shifting borders, and of course, corruption, being paid with US taxpayers hard earned money. Let us not forget the main economic engine in that area, cultivating the poppy. So of course those in charge over there want to extend the "pullout" for as long as possible. The Pentagon, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. I am sure that august body, is every bit as corrupt as South Western Asia, with no bid contracts, and building planes, and ships, etc. no one wants, and are outdated anyway. It is time all the medal, and braded, desk jockey's realize, the are employees of the U.S. Taxpayer. They work for us, and the average American citizen has to realize, these are just flesh and blood humans like the rest of us. The image of Pentagon personal, being some sort of mystical assembledge of fire breathing warriors, beyond reproach has to end. This good old boy's club, must become more accountable to the citizens of the US. They have reigned unchallenged for far to long, holding sway over the most precious commodity the US has, it's youth!
Tom Franzson. Brevard NC
Tom Franzson. Brevard NC
59
We lost this war. Because we cannot face defeat, we hang on. At this point the test of courage is to admit it and walk away.
69
Afghanistan has a long history in which the tribes, each defending its own territory, have controlled the national government in a manner very similar to that of the Confederation government right after the American Revolution before the adoption of the Constitution. The US attempt to create a strong federal-style government in Kabul should be shelved. It is not going to happen. People will fight for tribe much more enthusiastically than they will fight for a "nation".
21
If the military-industrial complex and all the crony capitalists who inhabit it have their way, we will never end our military presence in Afghanistan. That complex has had no trouble capturing Presidents Bush and Obama and getting them to buy in to trillions of dollars of waste and uncounted death and suffering.
In other words, the United States is determined to prove the truth of the old saying that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.
In other words, the United States is determined to prove the truth of the old saying that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.
39
If 12 years of "support and training" are not enough, then 14 (or 7 times 7) years will not be enough.
42
It would be a mistake and irresponsible to leave now - and hand over Afghanistan to the Taliban and possible ISIS linked elements. The ask is that American troops stay to assist with training, not necessarily to carry out combat operations. Their presence alone will bolster the Afghan army. This is not an ideal situation, but then there are no ideal situations in Afghanistan. This is about making the best of a bad situation. And yes, those troops may have to stay for much longer than anticipated.
Or, the US can do what it did in Iraq.....
Or, the US can do what it did in Iraq.....
5
Stop spilling the blood of other people's children for nothing.
22
"Or, the US can do what it did in Iraq....."
I gather you mean "pull out," and that you think it would be unwise just to pull out tomorrow.
I agree. I'd wait at least a day or two.
I gather you mean "pull out," and that you think it would be unwise just to pull out tomorrow.
I agree. I'd wait at least a day or two.
3
Delaying the drawdown has considerable bipartisan support on Capitol Hill not because of anxiety over how the post-American era in Iraq has unfolded, but because of anxiety over how to get reëlected without help from the military-industrial complex.
Nerves are frayed in Washington because - gasp! - negotiations are taking place with Iran that may, just may, stymie the next great war. If America isn't engaged in at least one protracted, expensive (and pointless) war at any given time, a lot of wealth and power dissolves.
Afghanistan has resisted conquest for most of its history. The wily Russians gave up in defeat. When, oh when, will America learn that feeding the largest military machine in the history of mankind cannot force the world to bend to its will?
Perhaps the goal isn't peace, or power, or democracy, or dominion. Perhaps the goal is simply feeding the machine. But whatever the case, the more the machine is fed, the more it enables ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and all the other soulless terrorists, and the more America paints a big huge target on itself.
Nerves are frayed in Washington because - gasp! - negotiations are taking place with Iran that may, just may, stymie the next great war. If America isn't engaged in at least one protracted, expensive (and pointless) war at any given time, a lot of wealth and power dissolves.
Afghanistan has resisted conquest for most of its history. The wily Russians gave up in defeat. When, oh when, will America learn that feeding the largest military machine in the history of mankind cannot force the world to bend to its will?
Perhaps the goal isn't peace, or power, or democracy, or dominion. Perhaps the goal is simply feeding the machine. But whatever the case, the more the machine is fed, the more it enables ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and all the other soulless terrorists, and the more America paints a big huge target on itself.
49
The Pentagon needs to get out of the occupation business.
The whole Afghan enterprise was lost the day bin Laden was allowed to leisurely stroll, out of Tora Bora. To keep the fear alive, to gin up the necessity for another war, Iraq.
Odder still, both Presidents who thought Afghanistan was a worthwhile, winnable endeavor, Reagan and Torture Bush, both dodged going to war personally and were delusional about the costs, horror, nature and utility of war
The whole Afghan enterprise was lost the day bin Laden was allowed to leisurely stroll, out of Tora Bora. To keep the fear alive, to gin up the necessity for another war, Iraq.
Odder still, both Presidents who thought Afghanistan was a worthwhile, winnable endeavor, Reagan and Torture Bush, both dodged going to war personally and were delusional about the costs, horror, nature and utility of war
41
Until the Pentagon is finally and independently audited, for the first time ever, there is really nothing more to say. SD Rumsfeld 'lost track of' $2,300 BILLION of our savings. SD Panetta promised an audit, but $1,000 BILLION went AWOL on his watch. SD Hagel bugged out as soon as he say what was going on. Defense (sic) has been regularly 'misplacing' $250 BILLION a year since even before the Hanging Chad Coup of 2000. That's $TRILLIONs gone AWOL of our last savings, never coming back again.
$250 BILLION would build a brand new Mayo Clinic in every US city over 10,000, with the best medical staff on earth. That's just the first year of Defense looting. $250 BILLION would build a brand new Harvard University in every US city over 10,000, with the best professors on earth. That's just the second year. $250 BILLION would build a SOTA $100M sports complex in every US city over 10,000, with the best equipment money can buy.
Or, you can have these audit-less Perpetual Crusades, without any fiduciary duty to the taxpaying 'investors' forever waiting for that Peace Dividend, a Perpetual Blue Team fat slice of the hog, and for us, get back to work, jack. The Right Stuff's fat slice has been growing +13% every year, faster than even the Miracle of China, and is pushing up on $1 TRILLION per year!
Now what was it you wanted to say about Afghanistan?
You broke it, you own it, baby!
$250 BILLION would build a brand new Mayo Clinic in every US city over 10,000, with the best medical staff on earth. That's just the first year of Defense looting. $250 BILLION would build a brand new Harvard University in every US city over 10,000, with the best professors on earth. That's just the second year. $250 BILLION would build a SOTA $100M sports complex in every US city over 10,000, with the best equipment money can buy.
Or, you can have these audit-less Perpetual Crusades, without any fiduciary duty to the taxpaying 'investors' forever waiting for that Peace Dividend, a Perpetual Blue Team fat slice of the hog, and for us, get back to work, jack. The Right Stuff's fat slice has been growing +13% every year, faster than even the Miracle of China, and is pushing up on $1 TRILLION per year!
Now what was it you wanted to say about Afghanistan?
You broke it, you own it, baby!
22
Well, the USSR blew up after they left Kabul. Maybe one more effort in Iran for Israel might be just what the doctor ordered to end the experiment of America.
2
America needs to completely leave Afghanistan militarily now. We can assist the Afghan government on development projects, but we should have no military presence in Afghanistan. What is necessary is turning to development needs in the United States and intense militarism where there is no threat to the US makes that very, very difficult.
57
Considering that an unsupervised Afghanistan gave shelter to Osama bin Laden and allowed Al Qaeda to flourish, I think it's incorrect to say that Afghanistan poses no threat to the US.
On the other hand, we've certainly learned that American military intervention only fuels terrorist hatred. So yes, it's time to get out. But it's also time to stop all meddling in the region - military, diplomatic, covert or otherwise - which also fuels anti-Americanism, and figure out what America's interests really are (other than the military economy) and protect them more effectively and safely.
On the other hand, we've certainly learned that American military intervention only fuels terrorist hatred. So yes, it's time to get out. But it's also time to stop all meddling in the region - military, diplomatic, covert or otherwise - which also fuels anti-Americanism, and figure out what America's interests really are (other than the military economy) and protect them more effectively and safely.
1