I agree with the statement of Tanner Colby at a recent Martin Luther King memorial event. The city of Ferguson should not exist at all. If a city has such a poor revenue base that it has to use traffic stops as a way to pay its bills, it should not exist. It should be consolidated with other communities in that county.
3
The article attempts to mislead readers about the importance of traffic fines to the City of Ferguson's operating budget. Last fiscal year the city took in $19.1 million in revenue, of which $2.7 million came from fines, including but not limited to traffic fines. However, Ferguson spent 5.3 million on its Police Department, so the Police Department is not a profit center for the City of Ferguson, it operates at a significant loss that has to be made up by sale taxes, property taxes and utility billing.
2
As an African American, every traffic court I've ever been forced to visit during my 20 years of driving has predominantly had African Americans defendants. To the tune of 90% and in places such as Jackson County, Ga which has an African American population less than 20%. I was beginning to believe that European Americans did not commit traffic offenses. But then I'm not stupid and I read. So when a white officer stopped me in Union City Ga for coming to a rolling stop, handcuffed me for having a suspended license (created by a mistake at the DMV in Alabama which I was not aware of), searched my car and found nothing but refused to give me my bag which had my diabetic supplies until a White coworker whom I had just returned to the office with from a business trip came by to help me and asked the officer who then acquiesced, I knew the deal. It meant everything to this police officer to make me feel small and belittled, smaller than he. It was more important to him to handcuff me and stuff me in his patrol car rather than listen to me at all. Indeed I'm sure he saw the dollar signs (which never came to be as I got proof from Al DMV). Nevertheless it was rewarding to him to have his foot on the back of yet another Black man. The more business like and educated his appearance the better.
4
The most recent Justice Department study shows that white (8.4%), black (8.8%), and Hispanic (9.1%) drivers were stopped by police at similar rates in 2008. The racial disparity in traffic stops is statistically insignificant. However, black drivers (12.3%) were about three times as likely as white drivers (3.9%) and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers (5.8%) to be searched during a traffic stop in 2008. The primary reason black and Hispanic drivers are more likely to be searched is that they are more likely to have outstanding warrants for unpaid traffic tickets. Police search drivers arrested for outstanding warrants before taking them to jail.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702
6
It's dumbfounding that so many commenters here apparently see nothing wrong with armed, police officers being used by the City of Ferguson to make up budget windfalls by disproportionately stopping and fining those too poor to pay -- who in Ferguson happen to be be black.
This goes on in small towns across America. Ever been the victim of a "speed trap"? Good grief -- take off your blinders and see the corrupt practice for what it is. I am thankful the Federal Government stepped in to put a stop to it. If police departments have to resort to biased ticketing to fill their coffers -- then perhaps the local government needs to rethink it's tax allocations.
This goes on in small towns across America. Ever been the victim of a "speed trap"? Good grief -- take off your blinders and see the corrupt practice for what it is. I am thankful the Federal Government stepped in to put a stop to it. If police departments have to resort to biased ticketing to fill their coffers -- then perhaps the local government needs to rethink it's tax allocations.
6
The Ferguson Police Department and Municipal Court collect about $ 2.5 millions per year in fines, including but not limited to traffic fines. It has operating costs of about 5.4 million a year. The shortfall is made up by sales taxes, property taxes and utility billings. Ferguson loses money on its Police Department.
4
" Ferguson loses money on its Police Department".........
More truth to that statement than meets the eye.
More truth to that statement than meets the eye.
1
Eric Holder's justice department is the soul of prosecutorial fervor when it comes to the Ferguson, MO police department.
... while it has accomplished nothing visible over an extended period of time in the matter of the IRS .
This is also an interesting example of bias in law enforcement.
... while it has accomplished nothing visible over an extended period of time in the matter of the IRS .
This is also an interesting example of bias in law enforcement.
4
Perhaps the predominantly Afro-American community that destroyed, looted and pillaged Ferguson will,with the advent of the Justice Departments findings, all come together and rebuild what they tore asunder! Some how I just don't think that will happen.
6
It's shocking to read that "Such fines are the city’s second-largest source of revenue after sales tax" in an article about the leader of the free world. The more you fine people, the better the chances for balanced books are.
The incentives are all wrong. The US must do better than that.
The incentives are all wrong. The US must do better than that.
2
Have you visited the US? We don't like to admit it, but Money rules the day.
Federal, state,local gov's collect fees any which way they can because many states do not collect income tax. The wealthiest people scream the loudest about taxes and essentially "buy" the politicians to vote against taxes.
Unfortunately, we are not necessarily a society driven by cooperation and sharing but rather competition and much selfishness .
Federal, state,local gov's collect fees any which way they can because many states do not collect income tax. The wealthiest people scream the loudest about taxes and essentially "buy" the politicians to vote against taxes.
Unfortunately, we are not necessarily a society driven by cooperation and sharing but rather competition and much selfishness .
2
Virtually every police department in the country has been challenged on its traffic ticket policy. Speed traps. Fixed tickets. Non-payment treated too strictly. Stops made to investigate the wrong people about the wrong stuff. The finest prosecutors in the country will be investigating whether stopping someone for going 30 in a 25 is racist. Maybe they ought to be investigating how to prevent the shooting of jaywalkers.
1
These alluded to statistics mean nothing, are the result of cherry picking incompatible and unrelated data in order to prove a political point - buy votes from a targeted voting block. Blacks on black murder rates and other crimes are several times the national average and that alone justifies to any rational person or police officer that blacks breaking the law should not be ignored for purposes of political correctness. Perhaps Obama's administration, the this author and the NY Times editors would like to go down in history as advocating for and causing law enforcement to essentially end in black communities or neighborhoods. Yeah, that ought to really work to reduce black unemployment and homicides and teen pregnancy rate, and increase school graduation rates!? But then perhaps turning minority communities back into combat zones is their intention. That way there will be millions more desperate poor terrorized people to add to the illiterate illegal immigrants flooding into our nation for the democrat party brand of social services and welfare to harvest votes from - with just enough redistribution to keep their designated serfs just barely alive enough to return to their 1/3 of a living minimum wage jobs each day and turn up to vote every 2 years.
6
Americans are anxiously awaiting the soon to be highly covered Ferguson Trials. Surely, these trials will highlight the prosecution and conviction of the criminal looters, the wild things, who did their best to destroy Ferguson. Always remember, without the police the jungle wins. Also, has the mother of Michael Brown apologized and paid retribution to the store owner where Michael Brown stole cigars and violently assaulted? Please let us know. The silence has become deafening. Civilized society demands justice..
8
Maybe its the disparate tendency to disregard traffic laws.
6
bag o cheese: Please don't insult the rest of us; go elsewhere please.
2
There have been two studies that I know of to determine if state highway patrols were ticketing blacks inordinately. One in N.C. found that they weren't - stops and tickets reflected violations. Another in N.J. - by a college, probably Rutgers, on the NJT - came to the same conclusion: That tickets affected blacks disparately was justified by violations. A simple use of statistics, which Holder's DOJ is all about - get the stats, then coercion follows - doesn't necessarily lead to accurate conclusions.
5
Apparently, the Justice Department wants to send out two different signals about the Ferguson, MO police department. The officer is to be cleared of wrongdoing in the Michael Brown death, but the incident happened, in part, because of years of racial animosity stirred up by the police department's disproportionate ticketing and arresting of African-Americans there. I don't think the two are morally or ethically equivalent, but if DOJ can bring a bit more racial sensitivity to the Ferguson, MO police department, perhaps Mr. Brown's death will not have been entirely in vain.
From everything I read, Michael Brown was a young thug in the making. Before struggling to take Officer Wilson's weapon from him, he and a friend of his had stolen cigarettes from a convenience store. I don't see his death as entirely senseless, or as a clear case of racial discrimination.
Unfortunately black culture in the U.S. is often its own worst enemy as far as getting much sympathy from the dominant white, power structure. When blacks use cases such as Michael Brown's, or Eric Garner's on Staten Island as examples of police wrongdoing, they are using weak examples which don't get them much sympathy. If you break the law, or resist arrest violently, you should expect to come out on the losing end of doing so. Anything else would be creating a double standard for black subculture, or would indicate giving up on the rule of law, neither of which should happen.
8
Black subculture? Give me a break. Eric Garner was choked to death because he was suspected of selling loose cigarettes. Meanwhile, Eric Nowsch (white) a known killer was permitted to take his time and get high before deciding to obey police commands and surrender. A white couple went on a killing spree from South Carolina to West Virginia, yet somehow the police managed to take them alive. Tamir Rice (black), 12 years old and playing with a toy gun, was gunned down two seconds after the police arrived.
The different behavior of the police in these circumstances was not about black subculture. It was about a racially biased, shoot-the-blacks first police culture sustained by sensibilities of which your comment is a prime example. Nor is this a recent development in response to black subculture. It's a holdover from a long running streak of bigotry in what you call the dominant white power structure.
The different behavior of the police in these circumstances was not about black subculture. It was about a racially biased, shoot-the-blacks first police culture sustained by sensibilities of which your comment is a prime example. Nor is this a recent development in response to black subculture. It's a holdover from a long running streak of bigotry in what you call the dominant white power structure.
9
Would you please enlighten some of us on the 'black culture' that is the undoing the relationship between African Americans and the police?
3
It's hard to believe that you would make a comment like this. However, if you are part of the dominant, white, power structure, it wouldn't be hard to believe. However, to humor you at the expense that you may have been serious (gasp!), black people are not looking for sympathy, especially from the 'dominant, white, power structure'. And if coming out on the "losing end" of breaking the law involves death, then you are supporting the system mired in racism.
But you probably think that if African Americans in Ferguson were decent, law-abiding, contributing members of society, the police would have no reason to be racist.
This is the flawed logic of the dominant, white, power structure.
But you probably think that if African Americans in Ferguson were decent, law-abiding, contributing members of society, the police would have no reason to be racist.
This is the flawed logic of the dominant, white, power structure.
5
We have a system in America that is arrayed to keep poor people of color from rising up to enjoy equality, liberty, and civil rights. The USA has unjust foundations in its history. It isn't complicated. It is a primal pecking order meant to force some human beings to have to work for other human beings with as little compensation as possible.
1
So it is a Federal Crime because the police department of a city that is populated by overwhelmingly Black Residents stops Black people for traffic violations an inordinate amount of the time? Isn't this kind of like saying the Boston PD has an institutional bias of stopping Catholics an inordinate percentage of the time? In other words the PD boost their revenues by shearing the sheep that they got, regardless of color.
7
The tilt in justice balance scale has become so obvious that if this had not been done; the day is not far when US would start losing its moral leadership place in the world. It is incomprehensible that how twelve year old boy could scare a policeman with his toy gun, gets killed and then he is faulted. Would things be different from tomorrow? May be yes or may not be but this was necessary, at least for the face saving purpose.
2
This is Department of Injustice getting federal control over local police departments. Happening elsewhere. Federalism. Unconstitutional federal power grab.
5
Ferguson is lucky to have citizens that want to police there. Between the low pay and constantly being second guessed who would want that job? As for Holder it seems to me fitting this will be his legacy. One slap on the wrist of a police department working a basically ungovernable municipality.
7
Nonsense. Ferguson is not anything like an ungovernable city. The NYT did an analysis last year and it showed that Ferguson is a stable, working class community with moderate levels of crime. As for people not wanting to police there, I saw a recent article describing how well over 20 people applied for each of two opening on the Ferguson Police Department.
Time and again we hear commenters declare that "we" should let "them" police themselves when blacks dare complain about heavy handed policing. As if police work was a form of racial charity. In point of fact, police jobs are highly coveted and fiercely fought over in almost every jurisdiction because they have very low entry requirements, provide stable pay, great pensions and, despite the hype to the contrary, are only marginally more dangerous than most other jobs.
Time and again we hear commenters declare that "we" should let "them" police themselves when blacks dare complain about heavy handed policing. As if police work was a form of racial charity. In point of fact, police jobs are highly coveted and fiercely fought over in almost every jurisdiction because they have very low entry requirements, provide stable pay, great pensions and, despite the hype to the contrary, are only marginally more dangerous than most other jobs.
4
Most comments supporting the DOJ here share a common theme - revenge. That solves noyhping.
Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that solving the problem lies mostly within the black community, because the fix lies within the power of individuals. Every young black man can dramatically affect his chances through his behavior. Every black mother can dramatically affect her young man's fate through parenting. Can a "well-behaved" young black man be victimized? Sure. Unfair. But the chances can be dramatically reduced. This is pure, unadulterated fact. Period.
On the other hand, can a cop (any race) all-of-a-sudden change his fears when he approaches a situation involving a young black man in a potentially dangerous situation? No. He may try, but the underlying fear will always be there. Always. Human nature.
Solving this is not a chicken-egg thing. As long as young black men misbehave at high levels, they will be perceived as such by the cops, and cops have to defend themselves as they feel necessary, probably by having a more-nervous trigger finger than they should. On the other hand, if a young man doesn't hang with bad people, stays home at night or at least stays away from volatile environments, he will survive and prosper.
Blacks have the power to fix the problem for themselves as individuals. If enough if them do that, it will change police perception and will fix the problem overall.
Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that solving the problem lies mostly within the black community, because the fix lies within the power of individuals. Every young black man can dramatically affect his chances through his behavior. Every black mother can dramatically affect her young man's fate through parenting. Can a "well-behaved" young black man be victimized? Sure. Unfair. But the chances can be dramatically reduced. This is pure, unadulterated fact. Period.
On the other hand, can a cop (any race) all-of-a-sudden change his fears when he approaches a situation involving a young black man in a potentially dangerous situation? No. He may try, but the underlying fear will always be there. Always. Human nature.
Solving this is not a chicken-egg thing. As long as young black men misbehave at high levels, they will be perceived as such by the cops, and cops have to defend themselves as they feel necessary, probably by having a more-nervous trigger finger than they should. On the other hand, if a young man doesn't hang with bad people, stays home at night or at least stays away from volatile environments, he will survive and prosper.
Blacks have the power to fix the problem for themselves as individuals. If enough if them do that, it will change police perception and will fix the problem overall.
14
The problem with this oft repeated point of view is that it requires nothing of the police in terms of better training. All they have to be is genuinely afraid and their behavior is entirely excused. How about police departments doing a better job of weeding out applicants who can't master their racial fears? How about the police departments do a better job of training officers how to de-escalate, rather than escalate situations? How about police departments track officer behavior and let them know they'll be punished - instead of defended - for using unjustified force? That is where the government's responsibility lies. Police behavior can and will change if the public demands it - as much of the public is demanding. It is not the responsibility of law abiding black people to police lawbreaking black people or else be deemed to be criminals by the police.
4
Why is it that there are not more Black police officers or elected officials in Ferguson? Is it that the Black population do not qualify or they do not attempt to be hired or run for political office. Witj the Black population far exceeding the White population I fail to understand. If it is the White population control the hiring and political qualification, then the Justice Department should be addressing that. If it is the Black population are not qualified or do not care to become police or elected officials, I do not know what can be done. They need to step up to the plate and take hold of their destiny. Otherwise, do not complain about racial issues.
4
Why is it difficult to believe that 65% of a given population that is on average under 30 years old breaks most of the traffic laws and commits most of the crime in a given area?
Nationally, Ferguson's 65% is America's 12%, committing 40% of crime. As such, Ferguson might be safer than many parts of the country, though most of us wouldn't want to live there, either.
Nationally, Ferguson's 65% is America's 12%, committing 40% of crime. As such, Ferguson might be safer than many parts of the country, though most of us wouldn't want to live there, either.
6
Mary, there was an explanation in the article about that. Blacks were searched twice as often as whites, despite whites more commonly being found to have contraband. Whatever else is going on, it proves that individual officers' decisions to search were based on race more than on justified evidence.
9
I would suggest that the answer is clear: 63% of the population is African American, yet the police department is made up of Caucasians. Ferguson, and like cities with similar disparities, would be well advised to make a concerted effort to align the racial balance of the police department to that of the city.
3
" a concerted effort to align the racial balance of the police department to that of the city" requires that citizens vote.
1
So 63% of the population makes up 86% of the traffic stops. This is supposed to show racial discrimination. I could see if 10% of the population made up 86% but this is like 1.2-1 pull over. Regional behavior can easily explain such a tiny difference.
They say black people are searched more, but don't list any figures, while saying white people are more likely to have contraband. Unless the numbers are again dramatically unbalanced, this is simple cause and effect. More black people pulled over means they are more suspicious for some reason or another. Even if this reason is racism, that makes them more likely to be searched. More likely, it's because the neighborhood they are in has far higher crime rates. Sometimes discrimination is regional based, not racial.
They say black people are searched more, but don't list any figures, while saying white people are more likely to have contraband. Unless the numbers are again dramatically unbalanced, this is simple cause and effect. More black people pulled over means they are more suspicious for some reason or another. Even if this reason is racism, that makes them more likely to be searched. More likely, it's because the neighborhood they are in has far higher crime rates. Sometimes discrimination is regional based, not racial.
4
I would like to see a breakdown of the traffic stops, reasons for stops, and more demographics on the stops before coming to any conclusions. Also more demographics on the police department. And it's very dangerous to make assumptions on gross statistical data. Need to look at individual behaviors.
5
Everyone knows that this report is racially motivated and biased. Traffic stops? Really? And stop and frisk that saved thousands of African American lives in NYC was also deemed to be racially motivated, although the folks that benefited most in actual lives were African Americans, and a city where crime was greatly reduced. This is just Obama and Holder trying to take over local law enforcement at a Federal Level by claiming that all of our police are brutal racists. We all knew what the racially motivated Obama/Holder department of INJUSTICE was going to find. States and Cities need to start fighting this in court instead of just going along with this kind of national takeover by the likes of Obama, Holder, De Blasio and Al Sharpton. Do you really want Al Sharpton setting the policies of your State and Local police departments because that is what is going on here.
6
Everyone knows this report is racially motivated and biased in the same way that everyone knows that police stops in Ferguson are racially motivated and biased. Basically, people "know" what they already believe and then interpret facts in a manner that confirms those beliefs. You as much as anyone else.
When this is all over the truth will prevail. Michael Brown did not get shot in the back as many charged. Michael Brown did not get shot while his hands were raised. After Ferguson police office confronted Michael Brown and his sidekick to get out of the middle of the street, Officer Wilson heard a police radio message that a robbery just occurred and the suspect was a large, black man, wearing a St. Louis Cardinal baseball cap.
Officer Wilson realized he just saw this man seconds ago and he was carrying the stolen cheap cigars. Then Officer Wilson tried to arrest Michael Brown. Michael Brown reached into the police vehicle and tried to take the gun out of the police officer’s holster. The gun went off and Michael Brown ran away. Officer Wilson, with blood on his gun holster and blood on the car door, got out of the police car and ordered Michael Wilson to “hit the ground.” Michael Brown laughed at Officer Wilson and began charging the officer. The last and fatal shot was fired when Michael Brown was 7-8 feet from reaching Officer Wilson.
Michael Brown, was not an “unarmed teenager.” Michael Brown was a 6’5” 290 lb. man who was charging an officer with a frontal assault. Had he reached the arresting police officer, he would have killed him.
The “race baiting” reaction led by Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and Attorney General Holder was a huge miscalculation and set race relations back decades.
Officer Wilson realized he just saw this man seconds ago and he was carrying the stolen cheap cigars. Then Officer Wilson tried to arrest Michael Brown. Michael Brown reached into the police vehicle and tried to take the gun out of the police officer’s holster. The gun went off and Michael Brown ran away. Officer Wilson, with blood on his gun holster and blood on the car door, got out of the police car and ordered Michael Wilson to “hit the ground.” Michael Brown laughed at Officer Wilson and began charging the officer. The last and fatal shot was fired when Michael Brown was 7-8 feet from reaching Officer Wilson.
Michael Brown, was not an “unarmed teenager.” Michael Brown was a 6’5” 290 lb. man who was charging an officer with a frontal assault. Had he reached the arresting police officer, he would have killed him.
The “race baiting” reaction led by Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and Attorney General Holder was a huge miscalculation and set race relations back decades.
13
Given that the 86% black population of Ferguson is predominantly poor, it's not out of line to think that they drive poorly maintained cars, possibly uninsured or with expired tags, and hence would be stopped for maintenance infractions more often.
Unless the statistics are controlled for such factors then they are useful only in inciting outrage. However, the use of excessive fines for such infractions does need to be addressed, and that's the factor that needs no statistical adjustment.
Unless the statistics are controlled for such factors then they are useful only in inciting outrage. However, the use of excessive fines for such infractions does need to be addressed, and that's the factor that needs no statistical adjustment.
5
So are we to understand that Mr. Brown's attack of a police officer was motivated by the fact that more blacks than whites were stopped by the police for minor traffic infractions? And that because the African Americans in Ferguson felt the police were treating them unfairly on TRAFFIC STOPS that he felt he was allowed, as recompense, to rob a convenience store and attack a police officer, and thus is blameless?
So, if I get stopped unfairly by police in a systematic way, am I allowed at that point to triangulate by robbing someone else? And then bullying or grabbing/attacking a police officer?
The logic of this piece, the comments, and the assumptions made here are not clicking for me at all. It all sounds a lot like 2+2=5 to me.
WR
So, if I get stopped unfairly by police in a systematic way, am I allowed at that point to triangulate by robbing someone else? And then bullying or grabbing/attacking a police officer?
The logic of this piece, the comments, and the assumptions made here are not clicking for me at all. It all sounds a lot like 2+2=5 to me.
WR
11
According to the 2010 US Census, the population of Ferguson, Mo, was 67.4% African-American. That percentage has probably increased since then. Given their predominance in the population, it is more likely that an African-American will the subject of a traffic stop. If more whites, the erstwhile minority here, were stopped, then then that would be so-called "racial" profiling.
6
Looking at outcomes only is not scientific. You look at the outcomes to determine if you need to look into the actual details to see why. When the why reflects the problem, you make decisions on what steps to take. Disproportionally ticketing and arresting African Americans in Ferguson is the outcome. What are the reasons for that disproportional outcome. If the majority of the population is black I think that might have an impact, if African Americans commit crimes and break laws at a much higher rate than other races, that might have an impact on that outcome. Is the population at work all day or home receiving welfare benefits has an impact. Good look at the factors first.
1
I was driving in the "black" part of a Florida city some years ago, and was stopped by a white officer - not because I did did anything, but because he wanted to know what I was doing in that part of town. I told him I was picking up the daughter of a nursing home patient who had no transportation, but needed to get to the hospital because her mother was in crisis. The officer told me it was dangerous for a white woman to be "down here". I told him it might be dangerous for him, since he viewed it that way, but that I was perfectly safe. He followed me to the daughter's home, and you should have seen his face when he she came out and hugged me and thanked me for picking her up!
1
so - you are living proof that it isn't dangerous for a white woman to be driving in a black part of town. Thanks
1
She's living proof that it wasn't dangerous the one time.
1
General Holder's statements following his visit to Furgeson show us the result of this "investigation" was predetermined. Profiling suspected profilers is not a legitimate use of the coercive power of the US Justice system.
5
The Justice Department could perform this study on virtually any police department in the country, and even if its officers were 90% black, they would still stop blacks disproportionately often. This is because blacks are much more likely than average to live in communities with high crime rates. Simply enforcing the law in those communities results in disproportionate stops and arrests of blacks, no matter how fair and impartial the police are.
The southeastern part of Ferguson, along with most of the area along Ferguson's borders, is poorer and mostly black and has a higher crime rate. Ferguson's police enforcement efforts are thus likely focused in those areas where they are needed most. It is no surprise that this results in "disproportionately ticketing and arresting African-Americans" -- the purported offense of the Ferguson police.
The Justice Department, of course, understands this perfectly well, so it is disappointing to see the DOJ trotting out the same old overly simplistic reasoning that disproportionate stops necessarily imply racism.
The southeastern part of Ferguson, along with most of the area along Ferguson's borders, is poorer and mostly black and has a higher crime rate. Ferguson's police enforcement efforts are thus likely focused in those areas where they are needed most. It is no surprise that this results in "disproportionately ticketing and arresting African-Americans" -- the purported offense of the Ferguson police.
The Justice Department, of course, understands this perfectly well, so it is disappointing to see the DOJ trotting out the same old overly simplistic reasoning that disproportionate stops necessarily imply racism.
9
Black men between the ages of 16 and 35 comprise 1.8% of the U.S. population but commit 42% of the violent crimes and 53% of the murders. Black "activists" never want to talk about the fact that crime and violence is out of control among young black men. Facts are too inconvenient for them. And for their propaganda enablers at the New York Times.
2
I have been unfairly harrassed by the IRS and believe that it's because I'm white. An investigation will show that the IRS goes after far more white people than black people, right down to non-profit assessment and feedback. Moreover, there are more blacks working at the Cincinnati office than their percentage in the country would allow. That is true for the IRS state agencies as well.
Please, ask Holder to address this racist practice. Until then, all of us should just stop paying taxes. It's an obvious coup to fill the Fed coffers and make up for budget shortfalls; and it must be racist if a higher percentage of whites pay taxes.
Thank you NYTimes for making this happen.
Please, ask Holder to address this racist practice. Until then, all of us should just stop paying taxes. It's an obvious coup to fill the Fed coffers and make up for budget shortfalls; and it must be racist if a higher percentage of whites pay taxes.
Thank you NYTimes for making this happen.
10
When the majority of one's Department "budget" comes from tickets and the majority of the town's citizens are African American; you have a recipe for a class action law suit. It took the murder of an unarmed individual to draw attention to this budgeting by "usury". It is very likely many poor communities throughout the U.S. also use this type of system for their Police departments: I doubt the Department of Justice has the will or the man power to investigate all of them.
2
The median age for black residents of Ferguson is only 28 while the median age for white Ferguson resident is 48. (White residents are not just moving out; they also are dying off.) Since there is a high correlation between traffic tickets and youth, the 20-year age gap make the 18.6 racial disparity in traffic stops and arrests seem about what one would expect. Teenagers are twice and Ferguson has very few white teenagers. as likely as adults to get traffic tickets. (A significant percent of Ferguson's white residents are too old to drive.)
Traffic cops seldom search drivers unless they arrest them for outstanding warrants. The purpose of the search is not to seize contraband but to ensure the arrested drivers have no weapons before being place in a police car for transportation to jail. Police then search the driver's cars before impounding them. Blacks drivers are search more frequently because they are more likely to have outstanding warrants.
Traffic cops seldom search drivers unless they arrest them for outstanding warrants. The purpose of the search is not to seize contraband but to ensure the arrested drivers have no weapons before being place in a police car for transportation to jail. Police then search the driver's cars before impounding them. Blacks drivers are search more frequently because they are more likely to have outstanding warrants.
6
As soon as any community's black population exceeds 20%, whites start moving out. This is because of the sky-high rates of crime and violence committed by young black men.
1
Since the DOJ couldn't make a case against Darren Wilson, this was Eric Holder's consolation prize offering.
10
Yes, a sop to appease the mob. Not the human sacrifice they had hoped for, but something.
7
It's wonderful that the institutionalized racial injustice endured by the blacks of Ferguson is getting the official recognition these people have long seeked.
The question that must now be asked and investigated is, is Ferguson the anomaly or the ordinary?
We all know the answer, but let's make it official and see the Justice Department deliver a whole lot more Justice.
The question that must now be asked and investigated is, is Ferguson the anomaly or the ordinary?
We all know the answer, but let's make it official and see the Justice Department deliver a whole lot more Justice.
1
Je ne suis pas Ferguson
1
The Justice department cannot indict Officer Wilson on Federal Civil Rights violations because it can't find any evidence of said violations despite the best efforts of the FBI. They failed to do so in the case of Zimmerman and Martin. Holder made a lot of promises and he has an ideological agenda to fulfill before he leaves office. Under Holder, the JD has engaged in the same extortion tactics against cities and communities that Al Sharpton practices. It is no surprise to anyone that a report like this would come out and what it would say. It would have a lot more credibility if Holder had not demonstrated his prejudgement about the circumstances of the Michael Brown shooting before any investigation was completed. The conclusion of the report that a climate of racial prejudice in the Ferguson PD lead to the shooting of Michael Brown should enable the Justice department to indict Wilson. The inability to indict Wilson, casts doubt on that conclusion.
8
Kerry is politically dead. Not even his wife's money will get him on Hilary's ticket. Who is he trying to fool?
1
So the moral of the story is: if a group of people disobeys laws long enough, then eventually police will no longer uphold those laws. Good to know.
7
The Ferguson Police Chief has been criticized since the Brown killing, but there has been no suggestion that he is an outright racist. So it seems unlikely that the discriminatory stops were ordered by him. That suggests that any discrimination was based on actions by individual cops.. A concerted action is possible if it were led by one or more rogue cops. But we have heard no such allegations. That leaves an independent action by individual officers. Absent awareness of such actions, the City would not be liable. Those are the possibilities, None seems particularly likely to support the DOJ allegations.
This article discusses what seems to be a shakedown racket operated by the entire law enforcement community to extort money from a poor black population. A bad system, one that encourages makes bad cops. But it's interesting how, when discussing racial disparities in law enforcement, conservatives always bring up the black murder rate.
But hey, let's change the subject to murder…if black people would just quit it! Well, what if the police actually quit chasing dope smokers, jaywalkers and speeders and concentrated on murderers? Toss in other violent criminals and burglaries too. These are the crimes that black and white people fear the most. Wouldn't our towns and cities be safer?
If police officers were working on murders all the time, they'd be heroes. But instead, they look for minor drug offenders. Easier--and since you can confiscate their property, lucrative. And they are loading fines on people for trivial infractions.
The Ferguson law enforcement community--and all American communities--need to change their focus. Stop looking for dope smokers and hassling jaywalkers and go after all those murderers.
But hey, let's change the subject to murder…if black people would just quit it! Well, what if the police actually quit chasing dope smokers, jaywalkers and speeders and concentrated on murderers? Toss in other violent criminals and burglaries too. These are the crimes that black and white people fear the most. Wouldn't our towns and cities be safer?
If police officers were working on murders all the time, they'd be heroes. But instead, they look for minor drug offenders. Easier--and since you can confiscate their property, lucrative. And they are loading fines on people for trivial infractions.
The Ferguson law enforcement community--and all American communities--need to change their focus. Stop looking for dope smokers and hassling jaywalkers and go after all those murderers.
7
Sorry but I have a great deal of trouble taking anything Holder and the Justice Dept say with any seriousness. Holder prejudged the Michael Brown case from the very beginning. He did it because he has racial bias. He and his department could stand some investigation.
13
Its a shame that we all cant love and care for one another the way God asks us to. We were all created Equal in Gods presence.
1
Let's not be naive to believe this is only happening in Ferguson. This is a universal reality of America's Police Departments. It isn't only blacks that are preyed upon. Consider the plight of Hispanics as well.
11
Years ago we heard a lot about NJ police giving out more speeding tickets to blacks than to whites as proof that they were profiling. A follow-up study using traffic cameras showed that when comparing real number of speeders to tickets, blacks were actually underrepresented. The 83% number here is meaningless unless you know how many were actually committing traffic violations.
21
Let me put a big surprise face on ---how many months did it take to articulate the obvious?
The Justice department continues to be in search of a problem; one that they consistently assume to be racism before they even know what's going on. I am astounded that blacks can claim they got ticketed because they were black, failed to pay those tickets, because they didn't want to and do not recognize authority or traffic laws, and then believe that when they are arrested for not paying those tickets, it is racism.
How about follow the laws, don't get a ticket, and then you don't have to pay the ticket or worry about getting arrested for breaking the laws. There is no question as to whether those arrested or ticketed broke the law. That is a fact. The question is did they get a ticket for breaking the law because they are black. No, they did not. They got the ticket because they broke the law. Wilson shot Brown because he broke the law, attacked a cop, shot the cops gun, then came at the cop to do harm. He was not an unarmed teenager looking for a better life going to college in the fall, as initially reported by the NYTimes and others in the media that now assumes racsim first, question later.
But if I'm driving and get a ticket by a black officer, can I just tear it up and claim racism? If I get a ticket from any cop, can I accuse them of trying to make money off my mistake and not pay? Can I just do what I want, when I want to; or do I have to be black to take that stance?
How about follow the laws, don't get a ticket, and then you don't have to pay the ticket or worry about getting arrested for breaking the laws. There is no question as to whether those arrested or ticketed broke the law. That is a fact. The question is did they get a ticket for breaking the law because they are black. No, they did not. They got the ticket because they broke the law. Wilson shot Brown because he broke the law, attacked a cop, shot the cops gun, then came at the cop to do harm. He was not an unarmed teenager looking for a better life going to college in the fall, as initially reported by the NYTimes and others in the media that now assumes racsim first, question later.
But if I'm driving and get a ticket by a black officer, can I just tear it up and claim racism? If I get a ticket from any cop, can I accuse them of trying to make money off my mistake and not pay? Can I just do what I want, when I want to; or do I have to be black to take that stance?
8
If the tendency to arrest people in order to raise money via fines and plus sending them to jail is decreased (applied to both blacks or whites) that will be one small positive outcome to this story.
I like the show Cops because it's entertaining, but I do feel there is a lot of harassment over minor issues presented.
That being said, I obey traffic laws as best as I am able, and I would like the police to go after aggressive crazy weavers on the highway.
I like the show Cops because it's entertaining, but I do feel there is a lot of harassment over minor issues presented.
That being said, I obey traffic laws as best as I am able, and I would like the police to go after aggressive crazy weavers on the highway.
1
Writing from the other side of the state, fines as revenue is a real problem in Missouri. I don't know how its is handled in other states, but here, all but the smallest municipalities have their own courts, police and prosecutors and they often seem to be run as profit making operation. In the suburban area I live in, there is little crime, but large police forces who seem primarily charged with paying their own way and contributing a fair chunk of change to the city's general coffers. For people with some financial capacity, its an annoyance, but most problems can be resolved with a few hundred dollars. But as the article notes, those who can pay are required to promise to pay and then make an endless series of court appearances to explain why they have failed to meet the payment plan imposed on them. Eventually they miss a date and warrant is issued and they are on their way to debtor's prison.
8
In NYC, this story about 17 year police vet Craig Matthews is another article on why ticket quotas are a terrible incentive system that lead to trumped up tickets and arrests and how such quotas are covered up:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/nicolasmedinamora/court-rules-in-favor-of-whistl...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/nicolasmedinamora/court-rules-in-favor-of-whistl...
3
Those railing against the Justice Department’s finding would undoubtedly support it if it was discovered that they themselves were being subjected to these unscrupulous practices by police in their communities. They would be invoking rallying cries echoing back to those of the founding fathers of this republic in lamenting that their taxes are being misappropriated and paid to those who are inflicting harm and injustice.
And like the founding fathers, they are only willing to invoke cries of liberty, freedom, and justice for themselves while denying it to others.
And like the founding fathers, they are only willing to invoke cries of liberty, freedom, and justice for themselves while denying it to others.
4
Mostly whites find these facts to be unbelievable. They have no idea of what the black experience has been like involving law enforcement. They pretend that this is more hyperbole than anything. Which actually makes them unqualified to speak on the issue.
The same was said during the 50's civil rights movement, whites north and south didn't see a real problem. If they did agree their attitude was" be patient things will change". Yes at the expense of lives that were brutally beaten or killed.
If so called "good" police were to police the "bad" police we wouldn't have this problem. They don't because the culture of policing is to keep un whites in check. It tacitly attracts sociopaths and racists who under the badge and gun exercise their own sense of justice.
The problems in unwhite communities are social ills made possible by disenfranchisement. The police are then sent in to maintain some semblance of order.
However in NYC, for years the NYPD facilitated crime along with mobsters and drug dealers. They took "graft" as a policy. When a moral cop, one with integrity, Frank Serpico tried to expose what his fellow officers were doing they tried to kill him. It wasn't until the 90's that they began to police themselves, due to nearly an entire precinct in Washington Heights involved in the cocaine trade.
No not all cops are bad, it is the cops that say nothing, that are as culpable.
This is an issue dating back long before drugs/gangs;
POLICE UNACCOUNTABLITY.
The same was said during the 50's civil rights movement, whites north and south didn't see a real problem. If they did agree their attitude was" be patient things will change". Yes at the expense of lives that were brutally beaten or killed.
If so called "good" police were to police the "bad" police we wouldn't have this problem. They don't because the culture of policing is to keep un whites in check. It tacitly attracts sociopaths and racists who under the badge and gun exercise their own sense of justice.
The problems in unwhite communities are social ills made possible by disenfranchisement. The police are then sent in to maintain some semblance of order.
However in NYC, for years the NYPD facilitated crime along with mobsters and drug dealers. They took "graft" as a policy. When a moral cop, one with integrity, Frank Serpico tried to expose what his fellow officers were doing they tried to kill him. It wasn't until the 90's that they began to police themselves, due to nearly an entire precinct in Washington Heights involved in the cocaine trade.
No not all cops are bad, it is the cops that say nothing, that are as culpable.
This is an issue dating back long before drugs/gangs;
POLICE UNACCOUNTABLITY.
9
What percentage of the looters were black?
10
So that excuses the years-long history of discriminatory stops? That's fantastic. So by your logic, the 100 percent of so-called Christian Identity terrorists who are white justify police to stop any white person anywhere and search them.
Is that what you meant?
Is that what you meant?
3
Ferguson, Newark, Arizona, and many other places where incarcerations are the new plantation sites, this is what slavery looks like in 2015. Though Plantations are now "vacation" destinations, the impact of slavery on an entire race of people cannot be denied when the facts point to discrimination, bias and targeted violence on a single group of people based on the color of their skin. I applaud Mr. Holder for talking in real time, using real words, anything less would be one more attempt to cover up the decades long suffering slavery had on black people.
Real and lasting change will come when plantations become holy ground where we honor the millions whose lives were murdered by people who enslaved Africans for profit and self gain. Real healing will begin when we enter the gates of plantations in hushed tones remembering the suffering and despair that gave rise to the wealth of others and this nation. When we finally believe that the sins of the past are visited on the present and are willing to ask forgiveness will true healing occur between the races in this country.
Until then, we will continue to work through the courts as the tool for change, because collectively we want to see slavery as something from the past and refuse to see its new face in the present.
Real and lasting change will come when plantations become holy ground where we honor the millions whose lives were murdered by people who enslaved Africans for profit and self gain. Real healing will begin when we enter the gates of plantations in hushed tones remembering the suffering and despair that gave rise to the wealth of others and this nation. When we finally believe that the sins of the past are visited on the present and are willing to ask forgiveness will true healing occur between the races in this country.
Until then, we will continue to work through the courts as the tool for change, because collectively we want to see slavery as something from the past and refuse to see its new face in the present.
6
Or, a simpler solution would be to obey traffic laws.
5
Black men between the ages of 16 and 35 comprise 1.8% of the U.S. population, but commit 42% of the violent crimes and 53% of the murders. These are facts. Neither you nor the New York Times will even mention them, much less face up to the astounding crime and violence of young black men.
2
You would have us forget that racism has been and still is a problem in America?
Ignorance is not a virtue, except to those who deny reality.
Ignorance is not a virtue, except to those who deny reality.
3
What a pathetic response from the racial-motivated DOJ.
How about blaming the aggressive behavior of black teenagers who live in Ferguson who have been spoon-fed a media diet of hating the police and authority. Typical race-card, blame "everybody but ourselves" mentality of this awful, radical Administration.
How about blaming the aggressive behavior of black teenagers who live in Ferguson who have been spoon-fed a media diet of hating the police and authority. Typical race-card, blame "everybody but ourselves" mentality of this awful, radical Administration.
13
For those of you getting upset with Ferguson's use of its PD to raise revenue, take at look at NYC. What was the hue and cry about the recent NYPD "slowdown"? Was it all about the precipitous rise in crime or was it all about the reduction in fine producing income as a result of the lack of police activity? I live in a small town, and besides the local property tax, the second largest producer of income is traffic fines. It would seem the police are being used as agents by municipal governments as "profit centers".
Maybe Holder and the NYT need to take a broader look at how police departments are really utilized if they are truly concerned about our civil rights. It may shock him to discover this goes on all around the country with little regard for race. The only color driving this abuse is green.
Maybe Holder and the NYT need to take a broader look at how police departments are really utilized if they are truly concerned about our civil rights. It may shock him to discover this goes on all around the country with little regard for race. The only color driving this abuse is green.
16
"highly critical"
That's it?
That should leave them shaking in their Doc Martens boots.
That's it?
That should leave them shaking in their Doc Martens boots.
"Blacks accounted for 86 percent of traffic stops in 2013 but make up 63 percent of the population, according to the most recent data published by the Missouri attorney general"
One must be careful about coming to conclusions based solely on these minimal statistics. For example what is the average age of the blacks in Ferguson as opposed to whites? It could very well be that the white population is older and therefore more cautious drivers. Statistics can be used to deceive something the Obama administration has mastered.
One must be careful about coming to conclusions based solely on these minimal statistics. For example what is the average age of the blacks in Ferguson as opposed to whites? It could very well be that the white population is older and therefore more cautious drivers. Statistics can be used to deceive something the Obama administration has mastered.
5
It's a shame that the Justice Department is so crooked that such an action has to be viewed with the greatest suspicion.
6
And what is the remedy for the Justice Department finding fault with bigoted traffic stops targeting African Americans by the Ferguson Police Department? Since most of the stops do not result in any violence nor arrests nor shootings, how do you "fix" that?
Although the racial demographics of the City of Ferguson have changed to create a Black African American majority the city government and services are still predominantly white. Blacks do not run for office nor vote in municipal elections in proportion to their city population. Whose fault is that?
Although the racial demographics of the City of Ferguson have changed to create a Black African American majority the city government and services are still predominantly white. Blacks do not run for office nor vote in municipal elections in proportion to their city population. Whose fault is that?
4
I'm a 15-year resident of Ferguson. This is nothing but a witch hunt by the Justice Department. They need to talk to their own investigator for the Civil Rights division, Earl Saunders. He saw first hand that the racism was not coming from the police department, but rather from the "peaceful" protestors themselves.
Shame on Eric Holder and the White House for this nonsense, which completely ignores the fact that Ferguson is surrounded by all-black communities. DUH! Of course blacks will be pulled over more. They represent at least 85% of the local population!
Shame on Eric Holder and the White House for this nonsense, which completely ignores the fact that Ferguson is surrounded by all-black communities. DUH! Of course blacks will be pulled over more. They represent at least 85% of the local population!
25
A commenter, Peter Schneider, did the math...
A word to the math: That blacks account for 86% of all traffic stops while they make up 63% of the population shows a bias, but does not seem extreme at first glance. Unless one realizes that whites make up 37% of the poulation but account only for 14% of all traffic stops. They are underrepresented by a factor of 2.6, and considering that blacks are overrepresented by a factor of more than 1.3, blacks are more than 3 times as likely to be stopped than whites.
A word to the math: That blacks account for 86% of all traffic stops while they make up 63% of the population shows a bias, but does not seem extreme at first glance. Unless one realizes that whites make up 37% of the poulation but account only for 14% of all traffic stops. They are underrepresented by a factor of 2.6, and considering that blacks are overrepresented by a factor of more than 1.3, blacks are more than 3 times as likely to be stopped than whites.
I grew up in a neighborhood in Detroit with demographics similar to Ferguson. I'm sorry to say your voice will be attributed to a person who "doesn't get it". Your experiences mean nothing in their eyes.
Liberals have a notion about how things are in this country. The protesters were peaceful. White residents of Ferguson are bigots. Courts shouldn't expect people to show up for court dates. The police actions turned Ferguson protests into a "war zone" (Bill O'Reilly around there?). Otherwise the liberals will face a case of cognizant dissonance, the likes of which has never been experienced.
Liberals have a notion about how things are in this country. The protesters were peaceful. White residents of Ferguson are bigots. Courts shouldn't expect people to show up for court dates. The police actions turned Ferguson protests into a "war zone" (Bill O'Reilly around there?). Otherwise the liberals will face a case of cognizant dissonance, the likes of which has never been experienced.
If you want to make your budget by ticketing your citizens, why would you ticket the people who can't pay? The finding doesn't make sense. If you want to harass a certain demographic for whatever reason, then you would ticket and search that Demographic. How was this study/ investigation performed? Has any university performed independent research to duplicate and confirm these findings?
2
If Darren Wilson had thought stopping Michael Brown was needed he should have waited for back up. Period.
In addition to that, it's not too hard to figure out a police department there has a problem if only three officers are African American and fifty are white.
May this be a lesson to other departments, and may they do something about it. We don't need history like this repeated over and over and over. Good for Eric Holder.
To criticize Eric Holder and President Obama for citing examples of situations they encountered as "black young men" is ridiculous. After all, they were "black young men" and knew exactly what they were citing. Denial can only go so far, folks. Stop pretending their examples aren't real - they are. Listen up people. Criticizing is not going to change things, and denying isn't going to change things. Justice needs to go beyond these old times and old time behaviors. Michael Brown could be alive today.
In addition to that, it's not too hard to figure out a police department there has a problem if only three officers are African American and fifty are white.
May this be a lesson to other departments, and may they do something about it. We don't need history like this repeated over and over and over. Good for Eric Holder.
To criticize Eric Holder and President Obama for citing examples of situations they encountered as "black young men" is ridiculous. After all, they were "black young men" and knew exactly what they were citing. Denial can only go so far, folks. Stop pretending their examples aren't real - they are. Listen up people. Criticizing is not going to change things, and denying isn't going to change things. Justice needs to go beyond these old times and old time behaviors. Michael Brown could be alive today.
12
"If Darren Wilson had thought stopping Michael Brown was needed he should have waited for back up. Period."
Naive. That would require almost twice as many police officers as they have now. Either the taxpayer pays the bill or there are half as many cops on the streets. And no guarantee that anything changes.
Sounds like you think white police officers should simply not del with blacks at all. What is your solution - Only allow whites to deal with whites? Or should blacks not deal with whites either? Okay - double the cost again.
Try something besides revenge. Revenge doesn't work.
Naive. That would require almost twice as many police officers as they have now. Either the taxpayer pays the bill or there are half as many cops on the streets. And no guarantee that anything changes.
Sounds like you think white police officers should simply not del with blacks at all. What is your solution - Only allow whites to deal with whites? Or should blacks not deal with whites either? Okay - double the cost again.
Try something besides revenge. Revenge doesn't work.
"discriminatory traffic stops of African-Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said."
What utter nonsense. The years of "discriminatory" traffic stops in a 60-70% African American community caused police to shoot the black teenager...who assaulted an officer and attempted to take his weapon.
There is zero chance that allegation could stick in a competent court of law, so the NYT leads with that preposterous connection? Sad statement about their journalistic integrity.
What utter nonsense. The years of "discriminatory" traffic stops in a 60-70% African American community caused police to shoot the black teenager...who assaulted an officer and attempted to take his weapon.
There is zero chance that allegation could stick in a competent court of law, so the NYT leads with that preposterous connection? Sad statement about their journalistic integrity.
12
holder's memories of being stopped as a student (supposedly because of his color), sound just as contrived as Brian Williams' being shot down in Afghanistan, being present when the Berlin Wall came down and all of his other convenient tales of the past...fairy tales...nothing more. The difference is that holder can permanently damage this entire country with his!
12
So, the facts prevail. Darron Wilson did not violate Michael Brown's civil rights and Ferguson has had a record of targeting the lower economic part of its population for arrests to help the city to pay its bills. This has been my feeling all along. I also believe George Zimmerman should be in jail for at the very least involuntary manslaughter. And Daniel Pantaleo should be brought up on murder charges for the death of Eric Garner. Those that try to frame all of these tragedies in simple racial terms do an injustice to the intelligence of most Americans and those same people use those parities to suit their own ends. Take the rantings of the fringe 20% of Americans with a grain of salt. They live by knowing how well they are trending on Twitter.
5
Wow Peace seems to be saying you shouldn't disagree with Holder because he's an educated black man. If I have that right what a racist thing to say. I have the right to agree or disagree with any man no matter his color and will do so. Was curious though if this "investigation" took into it's investigation that maybe more black people drove through this town? Nothing racist just more blacks drove through the town.
7
The many negative comments are disgusting and disheartening, and bespeak of how far we have yet to go.
I guess it's good that the racial animosity is out in the open now...but it's sad to see that nothing much has changed in the last 60 years.
I guess it's good that the racial animosity is out in the open now...but it's sad to see that nothing much has changed in the last 60 years.
6
Yet another man in power overly concerned about his legacy. The NYT states that he "helped calm tensions amid protests after the shooting". Really? It was quite the opposite.
11
There was a simple study on the NJ Turnpike with a radar gun and a pair of binoculars. When every driver was checked, the percentage of black drivers exceeding 75 MPH was much greater than the percentage of white drivers exceeding 75 MPH.
So, it would seem that the reason that a disproportionate number of blacks get speeding tickets on the NJ Turnpike is that they are the ones speeding.
In the case of Fergusen, it is highly likely that black motorists are much more likely to be poor, and unable to maintain their vehicles properly. They won't have insurance, they can't pass inspection, so naturally when they are pulled over they get in trouble. If they drive carelessly too, they're only setting themselves up to be caught.
So, it would seem that the reason that a disproportionate number of blacks get speeding tickets on the NJ Turnpike is that they are the ones speeding.
In the case of Fergusen, it is highly likely that black motorists are much more likely to be poor, and unable to maintain their vehicles properly. They won't have insurance, they can't pass inspection, so naturally when they are pulled over they get in trouble. If they drive carelessly too, they're only setting themselves up to be caught.
26
It's not only that there is disproportionate stats in that instance, but stats also show they commit a wildly disproportionate amount of crime period.
13% of the total U.S. population, but 58% of all crime!
13% of the total U.S. population, but 58% of all crime!
1
Utter rubbish and garbage. Almost every time I encounter
A driver speeding well beyond the speed limit or being particularly aggressive, it's a young white male.
A driver speeding well beyond the speed limit or being particularly aggressive, it's a young white male.
The NJ Turnpike Police were not just accused of selectively stopping blacks for speeding, but of searching black motorists at far higher rates for illegal drugs even though they found drugs on whites they searched at far higher rates. In other words, they searched whites when they had probable cause and they searched blacks without probable cause, just hoping to find something.
When the NJ Turnpike Police were sued for selectively subjecting black and latino drivers to drug searches, the department claimed that officers couldn't tell the race of the driver when they made the decision to stop them. Then some of the officers testified that they were trained - yes, trained - to sit with their headlights at right angles to traffic so that even at night, they could determine black drivers and stop them.
It is quite a stretch to jump from the NJ Turnpike to Ferguson , MO and insist that the Ferguson Police must have been acting in good faith merely because one isolated study (please provide a link to it) purported to disprove racial bias on the NJ Turnpike.
When the NJ Turnpike Police were sued for selectively subjecting black and latino drivers to drug searches, the department claimed that officers couldn't tell the race of the driver when they made the decision to stop them. Then some of the officers testified that they were trained - yes, trained - to sit with their headlights at right angles to traffic so that even at night, they could determine black drivers and stop them.
It is quite a stretch to jump from the NJ Turnpike to Ferguson , MO and insist that the Ferguson Police must have been acting in good faith merely because one isolated study (please provide a link to it) purported to disprove racial bias on the NJ Turnpike.
3
'Investigators do not need to prove that Ferguson’s policies are racially motivated or that the police intentionally singled out minorities. They need to show only that police tactics had a “disparate impact” on African-Americans and that this was avoidable.'
This one statement is proof that this investigation is flawed. The outcome was assured ab initio.
This one statement is proof that this investigation is flawed. The outcome was assured ab initio.
26
Holder needs to leave- now!
I am sure this was an unbiased investigation. Yeah right!
I am sure this was an unbiased investigation. Yeah right!
20
Justice following the EPA model..when all else fails, just shake-em down for cash.
14
Funny stuff as the EPA is wholly responsible for reducing violent crime in America due specifically to banning Lead from paint and gasoline. But hey facts may not matter to you or you may be down wind of a coal fired plant that belches mercury into the air causing brain malfunction, so you are forgiven Cindy for you know not what you do.
1
Whatever my "malfunction" my be, at least it hasn't hit the area of the brain that gives me the ability to have a disagreement without resorting to personal attack. Have a great day out there...
"Justice Department to Fault Ferguson Police, Seeing Racial Bias in Traffic Stops"
Yes, and then?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Yes, and then?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
We can't get you for this so we'll get you for that.
16
The Justice Department's findings notwithstanding, the only person responsible for Michael Brown's death was Michael Brown
27
You know who gets pulled-over? Criminals. You know who gets stopped on the street and questioned? Criminals. Don't want to be bothered by cops? Quit dressing and acting like a criminal. Duh. Your color doesn't matter, your manners do.
27
Obviously you are not black.
2
Do you really believe that? Only criminals get pulled over?
The director, Lee Daniels, was pulled over on his way to the Oscars in a tuxedo. What was his crime? He was simply driving while black in Beverly Hills.
Lee Daniels directed the film, 'Precious' and produced the film, 'Monster's Ball'.
Guess he was pulled over because he was a "criminal".
The director, Lee Daniels, was pulled over on his way to the Oscars in a tuxedo. What was his crime? He was simply driving while black in Beverly Hills.
Lee Daniels directed the film, 'Precious' and produced the film, 'Monster's Ball'.
Guess he was pulled over because he was a "criminal".
3
This is an inaccurate statement. I've gotten harassed in a business suite before; just because of the color of my skin. Racism is well alive. Don't be ignorant to the facts. You'll never understand the struggle that we go through on a day to day basis.
3
The Ferguson police give out too many traffic tickets to blacks and so Officer Wilson murdered Mr. Brown. Seems to me the connection between the two is quite a stretch!
36
@michjas - Why is it a stretch? A PD that is over-enthusiastic in targeting a specific demographic with tickets is more likely to target them in violent standoff. It's not that complicated to understand.
2
Perhaps the Justice Department should also review how Federal Agencies target Muslims for special treatment at border crossings, watch lists and FBI investigations.
Don't do as we do..... do as we say.
Don't do as we do..... do as we say.
9
Don't Americans get tired of their racism?
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." ~ OSCAR WILDE
Ditto for racism.
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." ~ OSCAR WILDE
Ditto for racism.
5
But then, America IS "exceptional."
1
I will not believe that police will be held accountable for their crimes until
I see it with my own eyes.
I see it with my own eyes.
5
If Ferguson were purposely trying to increase revenues wouldn’t you think they would pull over more white drivers who may be better equipped to pay the fines! Poor revenue playing on their part! Sounds like another attempt to separate the races by Eric Holder and the NYT.
22
But harassing black people is acceptable and deliberate. That is the point.
2
Office Wilson had been fired by the City of Jennings for racists practices and use of excessive force. Ferguson then hired Officer Wilson where he shot Michael Brown dead.
Office Wilson got married during all the chaos in his state and city! Perhaps he had a hint he would not be indicted as Weddings are such blissful events.
Office Wilson got married during all the chaos in his state and city! Perhaps he had a hint he would not be indicted as Weddings are such blissful events.
4
The entire Jennings police department was disbanded and all officers, including the rookie Darren Wilson, were fired. Some Jennings cops were rehired, but Wilson got a job in Ferguson where he had a clean record and earned a commendation.
A shame Michael Brown's actions brought an end to his own life and to a promising young officer's career.
A shame Michael Brown's actions brought an end to his own life and to a promising young officer's career.
3
No, all of the police were let go as the department came under critisism and the community called for an overhaul. Wilson was not singled out and was not ever found racist - the whole department was just let go.
And since Brown choose to break the law and steal, then attack an officer in his car and fire the officer's gun, then walk away and turn around when he was going to be arrested and attack the cop, he was shot dead. His fault, ultimately we all know that. Wilson had every right to marry. Ferguson rioters had no right to detroy property, burn buildings. or attack civilians or police. None whatsoever.
And since Brown choose to break the law and steal, then attack an officer in his car and fire the officer's gun, then walk away and turn around when he was going to be arrested and attack the cop, he was shot dead. His fault, ultimately we all know that. Wilson had every right to marry. Ferguson rioters had no right to detroy property, burn buildings. or attack civilians or police. None whatsoever.
2
The Justice Department seems to find racial bias even in a ham sandwich.
26
That ham sandwich is 100% controlled by the govt.
2
@pillpoppinpuppy - Got any evidence to back that claim?
Yes and please, let's be presented a list by race of individuals causing motor vehicle collisions by walking in the center of the street.
1
Were the tickets written for traffic violations accurate?
15
It's not about accuracy, or facts. It's about creating a society with two sets of rules, one set for African Americans and one for everyone else.
2
Almost all the police actions are connected with racism. Here, just another scapegoat was found out.
The majority Ferguson population are African-American. But wait! More than 50 police officers are white and only 3 of them are black...
Can't wait to read such a report! Finally this mess occurred into the focus of public attention! But it's sad to realize that only after all these protests..
The majority Ferguson population are African-American. But wait! More than 50 police officers are white and only 3 of them are black...
Can't wait to read such a report! Finally this mess occurred into the focus of public attention! But it's sad to realize that only after all these protests..
1
I wish this pattern was unique to, and contained within, Ferguson - but it is a problem in many cities across the country. It's how a citation for a broken taillight or a parking ticket can turn into a stay in jail. Driver gets ticketed, can't afford to pay the ticket, subsequently racks up always-multiplying court fees and fines, and before you know it, a broken taillight has led to someone spending 30 days in jail because the city has tacked on fee after fee to the original citation.
It's happening all over the place, and not just for traffic citations. One young man who caught an out-of-season fish in MI wound up with jail time - not because of the fish, but because of the fines and court costs he couldn't cover.
Courts charge a "user's fee" in any situation, and things snowball from there.
NPR ran an excellent series on this issue last year. I highly recommend it.
It's happening all over the place, and not just for traffic citations. One young man who caught an out-of-season fish in MI wound up with jail time - not because of the fish, but because of the fines and court costs he couldn't cover.
Courts charge a "user's fee" in any situation, and things snowball from there.
NPR ran an excellent series on this issue last year. I highly recommend it.
4
You can work off your fines as well as negotiate them down.
1
"Blacks accounted for 86 percent of traffic stops in 2013 but make up 63 percent of the population ... " A far more telling number would be vehicle registrations, or licensed drivers. I'll bet the contrast in those numbers is very stark. FPD ruled its citizenry by essentially saying, "we can do what we want, whenever we want, to whomever we want, and there's nothing you can do about it." Sadly, that's the same message a lynching was meant to send.
5
"Investigators do not need to prove that Ferguson’s policies are racially motivated or that the police intentionally singled out minorities. They need to show only that police tactics had a “disparate impact” on African-Americans and that this was avoidable."
Using the same logic, 13% of the population consumes 25% of the welfare payouts which has a disparate impact on the rest of the population. As much as the statistics, the bigger question is why all these discussions are one way in the PC manner.
Using the same logic, 13% of the population consumes 25% of the welfare payouts which has a disparate impact on the rest of the population. As much as the statistics, the bigger question is why all these discussions are one way in the PC manner.
17
Or maybe we all work together to try to alleviate poverty -- black poverty and white poverty.
1
"13% of the population consumes 25% of the welfare payouts which has a disparate impact on the rest of the population. "
By 13% of the population, I assume you are referring to black Americans as a group? If so, then for your statement to be true all blacks are responsible for any black person who receives welfare. Is there a similar group assignment of blame for whites? If so, I've never seen anyone white accept such blame. Generally, what we hear in response to any attempt to assign group blame to whites is something to the effect that "I never owned a slave."
By 13% of the population, I assume you are referring to black Americans as a group? If so, then for your statement to be true all blacks are responsible for any black person who receives welfare. Is there a similar group assignment of blame for whites? If so, I've never seen anyone white accept such blame. Generally, what we hear in response to any attempt to assign group blame to whites is something to the effect that "I never owned a slave."
1
". . Mr. Holder became the president’s emissary to Ferguson and helped calm tensions amid protests after the shooting . . . "
I did not see too much "calm" after the shootings. Seems to me there was more rioting and burning stores than "calm".
I did not see too much "calm" after the shootings. Seems to me there was more rioting and burning stores than "calm".
17
It happens all the time. I always told cops to stop white people who speed. some did, some did not follow that rule.
Although one time in early morning in mostly white Camden County I was pulled over by a rookie deputy.......me white woman in suit in state car. I was so happy that a white cop pulled over a white person!
Racial profiling has its place for some crimes. But for traffic offenses, race should not be a factor at all. I also tell cops that whites carrying guns can be more dangerous in traffic stops, so don't let down their guard when dealing with whites.
Racial profiling should be used only when necessary, like for airline checks, and for other racial specific crimes. The old airport profile search for drugs worked well, as it caught whites. Race was NOT a factor in the airport profile drug searches.
Although one time in early morning in mostly white Camden County I was pulled over by a rookie deputy.......me white woman in suit in state car. I was so happy that a white cop pulled over a white person!
Racial profiling has its place for some crimes. But for traffic offenses, race should not be a factor at all. I also tell cops that whites carrying guns can be more dangerous in traffic stops, so don't let down their guard when dealing with whites.
Racial profiling should be used only when necessary, like for airline checks, and for other racial specific crimes. The old airport profile search for drugs worked well, as it caught whites. Race was NOT a factor in the airport profile drug searches.
That is a typical White against Black confrontation, animosity and discrimination against Blacks, all over the United States, with the support and tolerance of the tactics, used by the the Obama administration, even though he is Black.
The White police in The United States, has a license to kill (James Bond Style),most particularly Blacks, who are always in disadvantage in trials and convictions, as evidenced, in the Millions of Dollars in compensation, that the
State of New York has paid, and is paying overwhelmingly to Blacks, for false
incarceration and convictions, accused of murders, which it turned out they
did not commit, and all under the manipulations, lies, and conspiracies, of a New York detective named Louis Scarcella, who himself should go to jail for a long time, for lies, falses and manipulated evidences and practically, destroying the lives of innocent Blacks.!!
The White police in The United States, has a license to kill (James Bond Style),most particularly Blacks, who are always in disadvantage in trials and convictions, as evidenced, in the Millions of Dollars in compensation, that the
State of New York has paid, and is paying overwhelmingly to Blacks, for false
incarceration and convictions, accused of murders, which it turned out they
did not commit, and all under the manipulations, lies, and conspiracies, of a New York detective named Louis Scarcella, who himself should go to jail for a long time, for lies, falses and manipulated evidences and practically, destroying the lives of innocent Blacks.!!
4
A larger percentage of blacks and Hispanics, way more than the percentage of whites, commit crimes. The truth hurts; deal with it.
14
The whites are committing higher level crimes.
2
Let's hope that the US Supreme Court soon strikes down the use of "disparate impact" as an extortion tactic.
14
Reading these comments makes me feel nearly hopeless about white people. It's not just that so many don't get it but that they seem proudly determined never to get it. When we lived in liberal San Francisco, my wife, who is African American, was stopped for a supposed traffic violation and ordered to put her hands on the dashboard. Then I awakened, sat up and said "What's going on honey?" The officer bent down to get a good look at me, recoiled in surprise, then told Charmaine, "You can go." Do I need to explain that I'm white? I suppose the same folks who've explained here why what is going on in Ferguson is perfectly reasonable will provide the explanation to our experience--help us understand how race in this instance (and in all others) has nothing to do with it.
59
Anecdotes prove nothing.
3
Thank you. If only every white person who is a racism denialist were treated to such experiences, we might make progress. Call me a cynic, but I think that the vast, vast majority of whites who insist that racial bias doesn't explain disparate treatment by police know full well that they are lying. They believe they're just standing up for "their side" because they know that the bias the police are engaging in to purportedly to protect them and they don't want to come out and say that they're quite happy to have one standard for them and another standard for blacks, even as they rail against affirmative action because it offends their sense of treating everyone equally.
2
I'm white and I've been stopped...and mocked...by police in traffic stops. Twice. I have also had good experiences with police officers. Anecdotal evidence is not reliable. Facts are the only things that count when judging other people, including police officers.
1
The actions of police and the politicians in Ferguson is part of a trend of "debtors prisons" now.
5
...brought to you by the "Federal Legalized Harassment and Blackmail Department".
11
I see - that's what some white folk call Justice? It makes sense now...
1
I'm most thankful that we have Eric Holder as attorney general. His pursuit of equal rights for all our citizens is unparalleled in the history of that office.
I'm white, if you're interested.
I'm white, if you're interested.
11
You should understand that the work of the police, Police are hunting for criminals like lions or wolf hunt for zebra and it's not just the black man being hunted, it's anyone who acts like a criminal. He must "get on the ground now" . And police brave death to arrest criminals and brave to kill some criminals too. but Police had to choose to die at that moment or to go to court later. Police legal practice everything.
Good cops must help the the rest of us change laws that allow bad cops to gun down citizens for nearly any reason without repercussions. The article says, "The Justice Department investigated that shooting, and officials have said they will clear the officer of civil rights charges." The Justice Department said the same when a Seattle police officer gunned down a mentally disabled man a few years ago because he had a whittling knife out and didn't drop it when ordered to. He was not posing a threat but he's dead. Police need to learn that this is not acceptable in America or any civil society. Why are they so arrogantly protected? Police state? No thanks.
3
If you are referring to the case I think you are, I just want to add that the man was not mentally disabled but deaf; was carrying a block of carving wood in his other hand; and was walking calmly down the sidewalk with his back to the cop who, unbeknownst to him, was yelling at him to stop. The officer shot him within seconds. He didn't even know what hit him.
While I'm certainly happy that the Justice Department's critical report will likely lead to changes in how the Ferguson police department treats black people, I'm sure it's cold comfort for Michael Brown's mother. From disproportionate traffic stops, to stop and frisk, to shoot just because you can, black men in particular are and have been under siege in this country. Has anyone seen "Selma"? The roots of this country's racism and bias against black men go very deep and often were nurtured most carefully in white police departments. Forcing changes there is a good thing, but it doesn't go far enough. And, it's like playing whac-a-mole because as soon as you do something about it in one jurisdiction, it pops up in another. So change ends up taking an inordinate amount of time and lots of innocent black men get killed in the meantime. But going after the people responsible, yes, trying, convicting, and imprisoning the officers who fired the biased shots, as well as their supervisors would do more to extinguish these biases than a thousand settlements or civil suits. Targeting a police department is akin to targeting companies (and their accounting firms) that lied about the mortgages they sold. Money is paid, changes are made, but the individuals responsible are not held accountable. They merely set up shop somewhere else or continue in their current positions, never properly chastened for their horrible acts.
25
I too feel sorry for Michael Brown's mother. But unlike many victims of police brutality Michael Brown was not innocent. Apparently he had just committed a felony and then resisted arrest. Anyone who behaved like Michael Brown, irrespective of their skin color, would very likely be shot by the police. Choosing Michael Brown as a standard bearer for a just cause is not very bright, akin to having Lance Armstrong lead a charity campaign.
1
Michael Brown robbed a convince store, pushed its owner on the way out, refused to stop walking down the middle of the street and assaulted a police officer and reached to take his weapon. There is zero evidence that race place any role in the Michael Brown incident.
1
Selma was a deeply flawed film. I lived through the events. The film, which had no actual speech by Dr. King, was like watching La Bamba, or any of the other 'make my group feel good' films. Deeply flawed and not worthy of being used in a Times comment column.
The main news in this story is not so much that the Ferguson police were found to have pulled over and ticketed blacks at a higher rate than whites. The bigger news is that after the whole country heard about how the police there mistreated blacks for years and the attorney general ordered a top to bottom investigation, the only thing the justice department found was nothing more than a racial disparity in the number of traffic tickets.
However as to a police department pulling blacks over at a greater rate than whites the question is is there anything unique about Ferguson in this as opposed to most other police departments, or is it just that they were subjected to an investigation. And since traffic tickets do not state the race of the driver its virtually impossible to find out if there is a racial disparity short of a full fledged DOJ investigation.
A big part of traffic stops are not at all over the traffic violation, but are used as a pretext to check out the occupants of the car. And greater suspicion of blacks by police is an issue all around the country. So in all likelihood there is nothing especially unique about the Ferguson police department as far as pulling over blacks at a greater rate than whites goes.
However as to a police department pulling blacks over at a greater rate than whites the question is is there anything unique about Ferguson in this as opposed to most other police departments, or is it just that they were subjected to an investigation. And since traffic tickets do not state the race of the driver its virtually impossible to find out if there is a racial disparity short of a full fledged DOJ investigation.
A big part of traffic stops are not at all over the traffic violation, but are used as a pretext to check out the occupants of the car. And greater suspicion of blacks by police is an issue all around the country. So in all likelihood there is nothing especially unique about the Ferguson police department as far as pulling over blacks at a greater rate than whites goes.
3
Can we have an honest press that admits that it got a story wrong and instigated a riot and nationwide protests? What happened to the allegations that Michael Brown had his hands up and was murdered in cold blood? We were told that the grand jury was a racist cover up and the DOJ report would not only show the truth, but result in a civil rights prosecution against the officer.
What we got is the police wrote too many tickets. What? Are you kidding me? How about the real story. An admission by the media that they got the story wrong and sowed seeds of unrest in order to instigate a riot. Every State puts people in jail for not paying traffic fines. They are indeed debtors prisons. That is what is the case in every state. But that is not what this investigation was about.
What we got is the police wrote too many tickets. What? Are you kidding me? How about the real story. An admission by the media that they got the story wrong and sowed seeds of unrest in order to instigate a riot. Every State puts people in jail for not paying traffic fines. They are indeed debtors prisons. That is what is the case in every state. But that is not what this investigation was about.
13
A major problem with law enforcement and american justice system is it's sometimes (and increasingly) operated as if it were designed to protect property rather than persons. Shameless political move to cover the fact that they got nothing on officer Wilson.
2
Too believe that DOJ is but a racist organization, lead by a declared racist - Holder, puts their honesty in question. Face it, Holder wants to find racism in Ferguson, so leave the truth aside. It is what it is.
8
good thing he doesn't have very far to look for that racism. sigh.
1
I find it hard to believe that all the police in that department target minorities. They must have records of both white and black police giving tickets. Are they the same? Was one patrolmen higher then others? I don't approve of any statement that accuses an entire group or department. Let's be fair here. Not all cops or people are racist.
4
this report is not good. Why is it that so many people hate eric holder? he talked about race relationships in America a few years ago and people were outraged. I think that people need to put aside there petty political views and look at the facts.
imprisoning people so that they can pay fines to fund the government is ludicrous. we are definitely not in a post racial society in America . this great country of ours has many different races creed and colors, but one thing I can say is that america is not a melting pot
imprisoning people so that they can pay fines to fund the government is ludicrous. we are definitely not in a post racial society in America . this great country of ours has many different races creed and colors, but one thing I can say is that america is not a melting pot
6
So, is your solution that only white people should pay their fines? No one should pay their fines? Or perhaps we shouldn't have any traffic laws then no one could break them and get a ticket?
Maybe you believe that fines should be paid for by the rich, kind of a fee on your tax filings because you make more than the public believes you should and therefore should pay the tickets racked up by others. Is this what progressive taxation is?
Maybe you believe that fines should be paid for by the rich, kind of a fee on your tax filings because you make more than the public believes you should and therefore should pay the tickets racked up by others. Is this what progressive taxation is?
1
One has to wonder how many Ferguson's are out there? It might be better if instead of responding to complaints and shootings the Justice Department identified the bad apple police forces as a matter of routine record keeping. Racial stop records exist in many states, but go unanalyzed until after a crisis.
2
I'm curious is there any statistical information available in reference as to how many African Americans applied within this area over the last several years for position within the police force?
Are they being turned down?
I've heard reference to African Americans as being in "hot demand" and "out bid" by larger cities.
Why? Why aren't more African Americans within the police force? I believe the more diverse a police force is, the better the community out come for all.
Where is this information? I don't mean references, I mean solid proof as to whom is actually applying for these positions.
Certainly if African Americans are being discriminated against by not being hired-shouldn't that be looked into? Are they not just as qualified? If not-on what basis? Are African Americans not interested in these careers? Why?
I think if we dig deeper than x y=z; and more on why it equals "z"- then there might be a real solution to at least part of the problems. Not just for this area, but perhaps nationwide.
Are they being turned down?
I've heard reference to African Americans as being in "hot demand" and "out bid" by larger cities.
Why? Why aren't more African Americans within the police force? I believe the more diverse a police force is, the better the community out come for all.
Where is this information? I don't mean references, I mean solid proof as to whom is actually applying for these positions.
Certainly if African Americans are being discriminated against by not being hired-shouldn't that be looked into? Are they not just as qualified? If not-on what basis? Are African Americans not interested in these careers? Why?
I think if we dig deeper than x y=z; and more on why it equals "z"- then there might be a real solution to at least part of the problems. Not just for this area, but perhaps nationwide.
3
I can think of two reasons that there are not more black police officers:
a unable to pass the necessary civil service tests
and
b a prior criminal record.
a unable to pass the necessary civil service tests
and
b a prior criminal record.
4
As soon as Holder's investigation determined Wilson would not be charged with any civil rights violation, this matter should have been concluded. Recommendations for improving relations would have been appropriate/sufficient closing remarks. Instead, he acts/speaks as if "the people of Ferguson" have him on retainer.
As for the BIG problem in Ferguson, hasn't anyone noticed that traffic fines in every municipality contribute to their operating budgets? Rumor's had it for years that police officers have traffic-fines quotas to fill, per shift. If Holder's going to set THIS right, he's got some real work to do.
As for the BIG problem in Ferguson, hasn't anyone noticed that traffic fines in every municipality contribute to their operating budgets? Rumor's had it for years that police officers have traffic-fines quotas to fill, per shift. If Holder's going to set THIS right, he's got some real work to do.
6
I drive through Ferguson nearly every day on my way to work at the hospital that provides for North County. I am very familiar with the community and its inhabitants.
Is it possible that blacks are committing a higher number of traffic violations, and thus subject to more traffic stops?
Is it possible that blacks are committing a higher number of traffic violations, and thus subject to more traffic stops?
15
let's see:
1. the attorney general announces that the justice department will require wholesale change in the Ferguson police department both BEFORE and DURING the department's investigation of the department.
2. unable to charge officer brown with a crime, the department focuses on traffic tickets issued by the department.
3. the "justice" department does not allege that minorities were singled out or that the ticketing was racially motivated. the department does not even consider that African Americans are more likely to speed (which several studies have shown).
4. the department will now compel the department to change under threat of civil fines.
5. unable to charge brown, the attorney general is now calling on Congress to lower the standard of proof required in these cases to make it easer for the justice to pursue cases to satisfy the race mob.
and progressives cheer.
1. the attorney general announces that the justice department will require wholesale change in the Ferguson police department both BEFORE and DURING the department's investigation of the department.
2. unable to charge officer brown with a crime, the department focuses on traffic tickets issued by the department.
3. the "justice" department does not allege that minorities were singled out or that the ticketing was racially motivated. the department does not even consider that African Americans are more likely to speed (which several studies have shown).
4. the department will now compel the department to change under threat of civil fines.
5. unable to charge brown, the attorney general is now calling on Congress to lower the standard of proof required in these cases to make it easer for the justice to pursue cases to satisfy the race mob.
and progressives cheer.
12
I don't understand how the Justice Department considers this justice. The police department is considered guilty of something, but no individuals are held accountable. That's as meaningless as fining corporations but not their officers -- something Holder excels at. And to this day nobody has been held accountable for the death of Michael Brown or the rigged grand jury. None of this is justice. It's just business.
6
There are police officers who acquire a bombastic attitude related to the position they have been assigned. In some of those officers, a 'quick to shoot' attitude is part and parcel of their frame of mind when engaged in elevated confrontations. Reminds me of the Shore Patrol/Military Police in Hawaii in the late 1940s, when brute force and worse were commonly applied without cause. To correct, it took an overhaul of S.P./M.P. management and intensive screening of those patrolmen that were assigned to monitor the streets. That elevation in professionalism is what is required in many of our police departments now. Will it happen? Don't bet on it. Most U.S. police officers are unuion-ized.
2
Several confusing and contradictory points in this otherwise well written piece. Most have to do with the numbers quoted, as Twain once said: "There are three types of liars: liars, damn liars and statistics."
1. The racial make up of the police dept. and the elected representatives does not reflect the racial make up of Ferguson. Voters can do something about the latter. On the former, I am not sure what is expected. Is the solution to fire the white officers and replace them with black officers?
2. Disproportionate number of car stops. What is the data regarding reason for stop? Moving violation, no signals, faulty registration, or just because driver is black? Is there more police coverage in black neighborhoods? If so then there would be more traffic stops. Why is that necessary?
3. DOJ will probably clear PO Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.
In Philadelphia, mayor Nutter spoke negatively about the grand jury decision and the conduct of the police department. In turn, the Philadelphia police stopped most car stops, and the number of citations were down significantly, forcing the commissioner to step in. Police can easily stop enforcing laws, if that is what you want. That can happen in every neighborhood, regardless of race. Good luck with that.
1. The racial make up of the police dept. and the elected representatives does not reflect the racial make up of Ferguson. Voters can do something about the latter. On the former, I am not sure what is expected. Is the solution to fire the white officers and replace them with black officers?
2. Disproportionate number of car stops. What is the data regarding reason for stop? Moving violation, no signals, faulty registration, or just because driver is black? Is there more police coverage in black neighborhoods? If so then there would be more traffic stops. Why is that necessary?
3. DOJ will probably clear PO Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.
In Philadelphia, mayor Nutter spoke negatively about the grand jury decision and the conduct of the police department. In turn, the Philadelphia police stopped most car stops, and the number of citations were down significantly, forcing the commissioner to step in. Police can easily stop enforcing laws, if that is what you want. That can happen in every neighborhood, regardless of race. Good luck with that.
5
the NYPD did that, proving that most of their policing is unnecessary. their work stoppage in response to de blasio was proof that we live in a police state, and an unnecessary one at that.
for the record, nothing happened except lower revenue during the work stoppage. REVENUE.
for the record, nothing happened except lower revenue during the work stoppage. REVENUE.
1
A word to the math: That blacks account for 86% of all traffic stops while they make up 63% of the population shows a bias, but does not seem extreme at first glance. Unless one realizes that whites make up 37% of the poulation but account only for 14% of all traffic stops. They are underrepresented by a factor of 2.6, and considering that blacks are overrepresented by a factor of more than 1.3, blacks are more than 3 times as likely to be stopped than whites. Why did the article not present that information?
35
You are incorrectly assuming that the numbers show a racial bias. There is no evidence of that. It seems as racist to say that traffic stops HAVE to equal the racial proportions of a population. That is a predetermined outcome, as pernicious as Affirmative Action.
2
Also remember that Black people are much more likely to not own a car in the first place.The truth can always be found in the details...That are conveniently left out.
The median age for black residents of Ferguson is only 28 while the median age for white Ferguson resident is 48. (White residents are not just moving out; they also are dying off.) Since there is a high correlation between traffic tickets and youth, the 20-year age gap makes the 18.6 racial disparity in traffic stops and arrests seem about what one would expect. In my 20s and 30s, I use to rack up two or three traffic tickets year, but now I go a decade between traffic tickets. ( A significant percent of Ferguson's white residents are probably too old to drive). The age difference also partially explains while most of the towns elected officials are white. A disproportionate number of black Ferguson residents are too young to vote.
1
I was on temporary duty at a military installation on 9/11. Although I was a field grade officer in uniform, I drove a rental car without only a temporary base sticker. Each time I entered the base; at least twice a day; I was required to show ID, pull over, open all the doors and the trunk, assume the position, and be 'wanded' as dozens of other vehicles drove past.
While I was treated with respect and understood the need for added security, after a week or so, being singled out and treated like a criminal becomes a stressor. Difficult to imagine the stress involved in spending a lifetime with the constant threat of being pulled over by police who may not rude and aggressive for 'driving while black'.
While I was treated with respect and understood the need for added security, after a week or so, being singled out and treated like a criminal becomes a stressor. Difficult to imagine the stress involved in spending a lifetime with the constant threat of being pulled over by police who may not rude and aggressive for 'driving while black'.
3
Well, the issues of Ferguson reflect nationwide problems, but honestly, I think they got absolutely nothing on officer Wilson. Today we should not have a desire to condemn police officers, but rather to set forward a pathway towards a much better representation and much more effective law enforcement.
3
Tickets do disproportionately affect the lower working class. If one is only making minimum wage (as a lot of the people living in Ferguson are) that one ticket can cost over a days' take home pay after taxes. If what I've been reading is accurate motorists would come to court and be threatened with arrest if they did not pay. Because of this many motorists wouldn't go to court and then be facing additional charges for failure to appear, as well as increased fines; literally turning a civil matter into a criminal one.
I thought they'd abolished Debtors' Prisons some time ago. I guess I was wrong.
I thought they'd abolished Debtors' Prisons some time ago. I guess I was wrong.
3
We shall have to see the content of the Justice Department's investigation before making up our minds. Disproportionate effect does not necessarily mean intentional discrimination. Headline figures may also mask important factors that explain differences.
If many commentators here distrust the White-dominated Ferguson government and police force, I am cautious about the bona fides of the Obama/Holder Justice Department.
If many commentators here distrust the White-dominated Ferguson government and police force, I am cautious about the bona fides of the Obama/Holder Justice Department.
3
In Sydney we applaud the sense of public service shown by drivers that violate speeding and other traffic laws related to vehicle safety or parking provisions. They have volunteered to pay an elective tax to support the state and so remove a financial load from the rest of us. Non payment will lead to driver's licence and/or vehicle registration being cancelled. Further offences may then lead to a jail term. These drivers volunteer willingly and have no right or cause to complain if a policeman observes their transgression and issues a ticket. There may be a distortion in the race of miscreants compared to the general population but that is a reflection on the offenders not the police. I note that the obligation on the police to traffic stop all offenders has no relationship to the race of either police or offender. This simple fact is sadly lacking from the DOJ report as published in the article by the NYT and makes me think that the DOJ case is partisan political waffle.
5
The correlation between the population percentage and the stop percentage is a false one. More relevant is the relative affluence of white motorists who are more likely to drive fully compliant vehicles. As for searching, let's not forget that blacks are almost ten times more likely to commit crimes than other ethnic or racial groups. Finally, "Darren Wilson, shot and killed an unarmed black teenager,....) who after assaulting and attempting to disarm the officer, walked away and then turned and charged Darren Wilson. Doubtless with the intention of giving him a wedgie?
Nice, unbiased reportage.
Nice, unbiased reportage.
5
The use of statistics for traffic stops by race is misleading. Ferguson is surrounded by towns that are virtually much more heavily black than Ferguson. According to the 2010 census, Jennings is 89% black, Dellwood is 84% black, Normandy is 79% black, Cool Valley is 84% black, and Kinloch is 95% black. Quite frankly, those figures seem low to me. No doubt, the continuing white flight from the crime of North County has led to an increase in black population of those areas since 2010. The north side of St. Louis is virtually 100% black. The people in those towns would use the streets of Ferguson to get to I-270 or to the businesses in Ferguson such as Walmart, Home Depot, Toys R Us, etc. The racial statistics of Ferguson are misleading at best, as people other than the residents of Ferguson travel its' streets. Holder knows this as well, but of course, we have seen that he blames much of his problems on white racism, rather than on the problems of his leadership.
Even liberals must recognize that black crime rates exceed those of whites. Therefore, it just makes common sense that a large percentage of traffic stops would be of black motorists. Traffic stops cannot be based on a quota system.
Even liberals must recognize that black crime rates exceed those of whites. Therefore, it just makes common sense that a large percentage of traffic stops would be of black motorists. Traffic stops cannot be based on a quota system.
15
I don't know if this will make it past the racial politics of the story, but what caught my eye was this outrage: "...relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. "
No government entity at any level should ever be able to profit from police activity, whether it's Ferguson's traffic stops, DEA seizures or the various and abusive civil forfeitures. Allowing the government to see police actions as a source of income is nothing short of a recipe for tyranny and corruption.
If the government must collect fines, it must dump them into the general fund at the highest level possible to disconnect them from any unit of government which might collect them. It should be illegal to attempt to return any monetary value of fines or seizures to any government entity that collected them or supervises the entity that collects them.
Policing for profit is a gross violation of civil rights.
No government entity at any level should ever be able to profit from police activity, whether it's Ferguson's traffic stops, DEA seizures or the various and abusive civil forfeitures. Allowing the government to see police actions as a source of income is nothing short of a recipe for tyranny and corruption.
If the government must collect fines, it must dump them into the general fund at the highest level possible to disconnect them from any unit of government which might collect them. It should be illegal to attempt to return any monetary value of fines or seizures to any government entity that collected them or supervises the entity that collects them.
Policing for profit is a gross violation of civil rights.
7
At last, justice, of a kind.
Racism is evident all over the United States, in every village, town, city, and community.
Our Supreme Court, in service to the elites, openly and notoriously, made it legal to be racist, with it's decision to gut the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
See Guardian excerpt and link -
"The US supreme court reassessed the nation's history of voter exclusion and decided the contest was over. The court gutted a key element of the 1965 voting rights act, which demanded that areas with a history of racial discrimination at the polls get prior authorisation before changing their election or voting laws. "There is an old disease, and that disease is cured," argued Bert Rein, when opposing the act before the court earlier this year. "That problem is solved." Justice Roberts agreed, arguing that the provisions were based on 40 year old facts"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/30/us-supreme-court-th...
Racism is evident all over the United States, in every village, town, city, and community.
Our Supreme Court, in service to the elites, openly and notoriously, made it legal to be racist, with it's decision to gut the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
See Guardian excerpt and link -
"The US supreme court reassessed the nation's history of voter exclusion and decided the contest was over. The court gutted a key element of the 1965 voting rights act, which demanded that areas with a history of racial discrimination at the polls get prior authorisation before changing their election or voting laws. "There is an old disease, and that disease is cured," argued Bert Rein, when opposing the act before the court earlier this year. "That problem is solved." Justice Roberts agreed, arguing that the provisions were based on 40 year old facts"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/30/us-supreme-court-th...
2
The question is not whether blacks are ticketed at a higher rate, but whether they commit traffic violations at a higher rate. (Of course in the present climate of political correctness and obsession with "tolerance," such questions are not permitted.) Similarly, before we all get the vapors because police (and pretty much everyone) tend to look a little warily at black males, shouldn't we ask if there a strong (very strong) statistical basis for this scrutiny? Sad isn't it that we've reached a point where simply holding up undisputed statistics can lead to a charge of racism if the figures are inconvenient to those who see racism everywhere.
Holder has done great damage to this country. He has managed to find racism where none exists and made Americans resent each other.
Holder has done great damage to this country. He has managed to find racism where none exists and made Americans resent each other.
12
I have stopped holding my breath waiting for the Justice (?) Department to vigorously pursue the looters who surely committed hate crimes by burning the stores and businesses that went up in flames in Ferguson. One sure way to undermine respect for civil behavior and law is selective prosecution.
15
Here we have the complete devolution of the justice system. The Justice Department need only show that "police tactics had a “disparate impact” on African-Americans and that this was avoidable." So without any proof of anything the police department is put on trial. Why would anyone want such a job?
The Justice Department could find nothing against Officer Wilson so now will throw meat to the masses. Even more ridiculous is that the city is relying on the fines to balance the city's budget. The next paragraph states that those arrested are unable to pay the fines. Who pays for the time spent in jail? The police deserve much better than this. So far the only people who have paid for this travesty are the shop owners who had their businesses burnt down.
The Justice Department could find nothing against Officer Wilson so now will throw meat to the masses. Even more ridiculous is that the city is relying on the fines to balance the city's budget. The next paragraph states that those arrested are unable to pay the fines. Who pays for the time spent in jail? The police deserve much better than this. So far the only people who have paid for this travesty are the shop owners who had their businesses burnt down.
15
By the comments of many here, it seems only blacks are supposed to obey the law at all times. Many here seem to have no problem with police disproportionately stopping blacks. It seems to me every time they unfairly stop a profiled black then that police officer have no time or at least much less time to stop the drunk drivers, the drivers who fail to yield, the driver who runs throughout the red light and who may one day run over your son or daughter in the crosswalk. Not only that the beheavor of that police officer is illegal by local, state and federal law. How can we come on here and talk about blacks breaking the law when we excuse police who break the law by targeting blacks.
4
The article notes that "black drivers were twice as likely to be searched, even though searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband." However, traffic cops search all motorists they arrest for outstanding warrants. The purpose of the search is not to seize contraband, but to ensure the arrested drivers have no weapons before they place in patrol cars. Black Ferguson drivers are more likely than white Ferguson drivers to have outstanding warrants. As a result, they are more likely to be arrested and searched during traffic stops.
12
Unfortunately we are unwilling to allow an issue that has prompted an outpouring of racial animosity that is never far from the American surface, to die a quiet death. The Brown case was and is a red-herring, and the supposedly liberal desire to return over and over to it in order to insure ''justice'' is so much fatuous demagoguery. Of course the majority of traffic stops in Ferguson involve blacks. It is a black community. If there is an inequality of the fines and penalties resulting from these stops, that is the responsibility of the municipal courts and judges of the jurisdiction, not the police. The real outrage of the entire situation should be that as august and important institution as the New York Times should engage in the continuance of an issue that did more to discredit the black community in general than any other so far in this century. Michael Brown was no hero, his parents no example, the community's response, a tragedy, and international embarrassment. The actions of our leaders, and those of the national black community, a scandal. The entire sorry, tawdry, vicious, ugly episode should certainly not be revisited as an example of race relations in our nation.
15
I think it would be helpful to remove the word racist and begin to see the situation as one of bias. On an individual basis, most folks would rightly deny being racist. I think that is true for the police as well as individuals. But when one approaches a potentially conflicted situation, bias will influence decisions and actions. When that attitude is pervasive, as in the case of the Ferguson police department, civil rights are violated and actions must be taken to change methods and results. And it almost always requires an outside authority to recognize and reflect back to those involved the problem and its solution. And that is the provence of the Justice Department in this case.
17
I very firmly agree with the idea of separating racism and bias.
Racism - the belief that a race is inherently inferior or superior to another - is wrong (and stupid). Full stop. There is no room for discussion.
Bias is different. There is just and unjust bias. We can actually talk about bias, where it comes from, why it is present, and whether (or to what extent) it is appropriate. We are much, much more likely to be able to have that discussion in a manner that allows both accuser and accused to talk about the substance behind the accusation - and therefore more likely to achieve something productive.
I am white, I am a police officer, and I am biased. My bias runs the gamut from personal and minor to professional; from how I take my coffee, to who I find attractive, to the idea that when we have a sex crime reported to us some of the first folks we are going to consider are registered sex offenders living in the area. That is bias policing - appropriately so in my opinion ... but I am open to a discussion about it.
Call me racist and I am going to tell you you are wrong - just flat wrong. Call my department racist and I am going to say the same. Call policing in the USA racist and I will again say you are wrong.
Say any one of those are bias and I completely agree and I am absolutely willing to talk about the good and the bad and how we can improve upon the former and mitigate the latter.
Racism - the belief that a race is inherently inferior or superior to another - is wrong (and stupid). Full stop. There is no room for discussion.
Bias is different. There is just and unjust bias. We can actually talk about bias, where it comes from, why it is present, and whether (or to what extent) it is appropriate. We are much, much more likely to be able to have that discussion in a manner that allows both accuser and accused to talk about the substance behind the accusation - and therefore more likely to achieve something productive.
I am white, I am a police officer, and I am biased. My bias runs the gamut from personal and minor to professional; from how I take my coffee, to who I find attractive, to the idea that when we have a sex crime reported to us some of the first folks we are going to consider are registered sex offenders living in the area. That is bias policing - appropriately so in my opinion ... but I am open to a discussion about it.
Call me racist and I am going to tell you you are wrong - just flat wrong. Call my department racist and I am going to say the same. Call policing in the USA racist and I will again say you are wrong.
Say any one of those are bias and I completely agree and I am absolutely willing to talk about the good and the bad and how we can improve upon the former and mitigate the latter.
5
Still no answer to the questions:
What would YOU have done in Darren Wilson's place?
Would you have allowed Michael Brown to take your gun and kill you with it?
What would Michael Brown have done with your gun after killing you?
What would YOU have done in Darren Wilson's place?
Would you have allowed Michael Brown to take your gun and kill you with it?
What would Michael Brown have done with your gun after killing you?
25
Why did you get out of your car before back-up arrived?
5
In Wilson's testimony he says he felt like a 5 year old wrestling Hulk Hogan while in the car. If I'm Wilson, after I have plainly lost the altercation in the vehicle, I do not pursue the suspect further. Why not just wait for backup? Why get out of the car and further into the danger he felt so viscerally? We don't need superheroes for police officers, we need people with enough good judgment to know they are in a situation they can't handle so they withdraw.
And let's not forget as well that Wilson initiates this incident. He has a choice in how to approach or avoid the thing altogether. He places himself in a situation where he is immediately outnumbered, then according to his testimony, immediately disrespected. Then he attempts to get out of the car so close to the two that the door has no room to swing open and must either hit one of them with it or hope they allow him to exit. With no partner present and no backup yet called for Wilson handles the situation terribly and if either of those two had been a real threat to him we'd be talking about his death and not Brown's.
And let's not forget as well that Wilson initiates this incident. He has a choice in how to approach or avoid the thing altogether. He places himself in a situation where he is immediately outnumbered, then according to his testimony, immediately disrespected. Then he attempts to get out of the car so close to the two that the door has no room to swing open and must either hit one of them with it or hope they allow him to exit. With no partner present and no backup yet called for Wilson handles the situation terribly and if either of those two had been a real threat to him we'd be talking about his death and not Brown's.
1
They chose not to charge Wilson; this is a charge against the entire police force for their conduct over years, not one event.
A class action was filed against the city of Ferguson with regard to traffic enforcement. It did NOT allege discriminatory enforcement. It simply allege that the excessive ticketing was unreasonably causing the imprisonment of many individuals. Race was not alleged to be a factor.
5
What you cite is not Department of Justice activity.
Holder is trying to find anything to put it to this law enforcement in Ferguson. He is showing his racist here. I'm sure everyone has complaints about there law enforcement, and the majority of people are going to tell a lie! Here in our area if your caught driving on suspended license your car is towed for automatic thirty days! Imagine the cost that could be to someone that doesn't have a lot of money! Holder needs to get off his high horse, and quit acting racist over this whole just get whitey!
13
It's a lousy case for the centerpiece of bad policing. The kid was carrying merchandise he just stole, and physically assaulted the cop. A cop would have shot a White person too.
It's pitiful people can't make the distinction. That said I hope this is a new wave of justice Dept work such that NO community can bear upon people unjustly, rather than just throwing tidbits to the social media sharks. I predict it's the later.
It's pitiful people can't make the distinction. That said I hope this is a new wave of justice Dept work such that NO community can bear upon people unjustly, rather than just throwing tidbits to the social media sharks. I predict it's the later.
14
Similar cases like it was in Ferguson will happen again and again. This year is the 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery. You think the situation has changed dramatically? No. Racial segregation exists, especially in southern states. We need hundreds of years and a lot of legislative work to improve the situation. The biggest problem is not the legal system and training of officers which has long became a stumbling block for our society. Another important question is education of youth in the tradition of intolerance and racism.
We can't breath? Our society has lung cancer with the connivance of the authorities.
We can't breath? Our society has lung cancer with the connivance of the authorities.
2
It has been abundantly clear that the police department of Ferguson has been riding the backs of citizens for years. The essential problem, in addition to racial considerations, is the fact that St. Louis county is divided into too many little towns. Each one has to struggle to pay its bills. Black people are easier to pick on, as, for that matter, are poor whites. Anyone without much political power becomes a target.
What would anyone say if the police and courts in the greater New York area issued 27,000,000 (27 million) arrest warrants in 1 yr.? That's what happened in Ferguson in 2013: 30,000 warrants in a town of 20,000. Outrageous.
The police were being used as roaming tax collectors: go out and find people fine, then go out and arrest them because they didn't pay the misdemeanor fines, then go out and arrest them again. And again. And again.
This constant fining, arrest and re-arrest put the police in continual, hostile contact with the citizens being harassed day and night to pay the town's bills. We have speed cameras in Maryland and the purpose is the same: get money for the county or town operating the cameras. Public safety has little to do with it.
One good thing we have in Maryland is county wide government. Most towns are unincorporated and can't levy taxes and they don't have individual police departments. In this way, we are saved from constant harassment.
This is as much a governmental organization problem as it is racism.
http://terryreport.com
What would anyone say if the police and courts in the greater New York area issued 27,000,000 (27 million) arrest warrants in 1 yr.? That's what happened in Ferguson in 2013: 30,000 warrants in a town of 20,000. Outrageous.
The police were being used as roaming tax collectors: go out and find people fine, then go out and arrest them because they didn't pay the misdemeanor fines, then go out and arrest them again. And again. And again.
This constant fining, arrest and re-arrest put the police in continual, hostile contact with the citizens being harassed day and night to pay the town's bills. We have speed cameras in Maryland and the purpose is the same: get money for the county or town operating the cameras. Public safety has little to do with it.
One good thing we have in Maryland is county wide government. Most towns are unincorporated and can't levy taxes and they don't have individual police departments. In this way, we are saved from constant harassment.
This is as much a governmental organization problem as it is racism.
http://terryreport.com
4
Next time I run a red light i will tell the ifficer to stop picking on me to fill their coffers. Good idea.
1
Who said anything about running a red light? The fact is, most citizens violate some law or another all the time. Many of the arrests in Ferguson were for things like failing to mow the lawn adequately.
There is a big difference between reasonably enforcing the law and harassment. Here in Maryland on the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake Bay, there are a lot of small towns with small police departments with nothing much to do. Everyone has known for decades that those departments specialize in stopping cars going through to the ocean beaches. One small town eventually had a by-pass road built around it, which put an end, for the most part, to the constant stopping and fining of motorists. (Do people speed on the four lane by-pass? Yes, but they aren't stopped generally unless they go more than 10 miles over the speed limit. Plus, the road is not patrolled constantly.)
If you put a police officer on every corner in America, he or she can fine and arrest someone every hour of the day. Walking against the light. Walking after the DON'T WALK sign comes on. Almost everyone everywhere can be arrested all the time for something.
Running a red light is a serious violation that could endanger other people. Enforcement is expected. But what if you had a police car following you around every time you went outside your house for hours at a time? This is similar to what the people in Ferguson have experienced.
There is a big difference between reasonably enforcing the law and harassment. Here in Maryland on the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake Bay, there are a lot of small towns with small police departments with nothing much to do. Everyone has known for decades that those departments specialize in stopping cars going through to the ocean beaches. One small town eventually had a by-pass road built around it, which put an end, for the most part, to the constant stopping and fining of motorists. (Do people speed on the four lane by-pass? Yes, but they aren't stopped generally unless they go more than 10 miles over the speed limit. Plus, the road is not patrolled constantly.)
If you put a police officer on every corner in America, he or she can fine and arrest someone every hour of the day. Walking against the light. Walking after the DON'T WALK sign comes on. Almost everyone everywhere can be arrested all the time for something.
Running a red light is a serious violation that could endanger other people. Enforcement is expected. But what if you had a police car following you around every time you went outside your house for hours at a time? This is similar to what the people in Ferguson have experienced.
4
The headline sounds like what the marching orders were from DOJ.
8
This is a case where dynamic scoring of taxes (or fees/penalties) makes a lot of sense. The total social cost of these traffic fines in disrupted lives and distrust of the police vastly outweighs the revenue they generate. I say replace revenue from car registrations and fines for lack of insurance and traffic penalties with increased sales, gas and property taxes all of which are easily enforced without police involvement. Always give people the option of taking their punishment in the form of community service, education or just plain Sundays in Jail. We are turning our police officers into tax collectors with terrible and predictable results. I'm surprised we aren't hearing more democrats calling for this but I guess for them any revenue is good revenue.
3
To avoid the incentive of fining folk simply in order to fill the local coffers, all fines should go into a central, federal fund, to be dispersed around the country to pay for local services. Fiscal reform and social reform go hand in hand. Apparently, however, neither the hand-wringers nor the GOP are capable of understanding this.
2
Instead of blaming the GOP, maybe the citizens of Ferguson share much of the blame by not voting.
3
Lots of luck, from San Francisco to Oklahoma City, getting any municipality to hand over their revenue from fines to a federal distribution program.
"...if something be not done, something will do itself one day and in a fashion that will please nobody". While Thomas Carlysle wrote that a long time ago, he must have had premonitions about modern American jurisprudence, law enforcement, incarcerations and economic disparities.
20
"Self imposed economic disparities". You forgot the most important part of your statement.
If you study anything long enough, with am annoying bias, you'll eventually find some kinda of reason to persecute.
Like your boss watching you over your shoulder while you work.
I feel sorry for Ferguson Police Station, any little slight slip up will be blown out proportion.
Like your boss watching you over your shoulder while you work.
I feel sorry for Ferguson Police Station, any little slight slip up will be blown out proportion.
8
@sbkline - If a "slip up" means police kill someone, I should hope it is blown out of proportion.
6
I admire Mr. Holder for the way he's dealing with Ferguson and other civil rights infractions. Of course he's going to be unpopular and the assumption is going to be made that he's not smart enough to be unbiased; he's African American.
Personally I think his wisdom, and even more his courage, given the Conservative climate in the US at the moment, is inspiring.
As for his comment that he personally understood the mistrust for Ferguson police, it was the truth and a brave thing to do. When Nelson Mandela was elected in South Africa after years of a hideous apartheid regime, he would tell crowds of hundreds of thousands that he understood their rage and frustration.
So many 'liberals' damned him for rabble rousing and encouraging violence. But he was doing nothing of the sort; he was providing empathy for millions of people who had never experienced it from a political leader. It went a long way to assuaging pain and preventing violence.
When you’ve been abused it’s horrendous. When everybody denies the abuse you experience unspeakable anguish. So, bravo Mr. Holder.
Personally I think his wisdom, and even more his courage, given the Conservative climate in the US at the moment, is inspiring.
As for his comment that he personally understood the mistrust for Ferguson police, it was the truth and a brave thing to do. When Nelson Mandela was elected in South Africa after years of a hideous apartheid regime, he would tell crowds of hundreds of thousands that he understood their rage and frustration.
So many 'liberals' damned him for rabble rousing and encouraging violence. But he was doing nothing of the sort; he was providing empathy for millions of people who had never experienced it from a political leader. It went a long way to assuaging pain and preventing violence.
When you’ve been abused it’s horrendous. When everybody denies the abuse you experience unspeakable anguish. So, bravo Mr. Holder.
8
Have you noticed that it is exceedingly rare that a policeman ever goes to prison for obvious crimes? Time will pass and all parties will cool off and forget until this happens again. That's what everyone counts on.
Nobody ever said life was easy, and it certainly is hard, but when there is no justice when the authorities kill and maim, it turns to emotions of desperation and anger.
As long as Cops are armed predators shooting people, I will unwaveringly support the right to gun ownership by everyone. If we were unarmed, the cops would be killing many more. They are the new predators of society.
Nobody ever said life was easy, and it certainly is hard, but when there is no justice when the authorities kill and maim, it turns to emotions of desperation and anger.
As long as Cops are armed predators shooting people, I will unwaveringly support the right to gun ownership by everyone. If we were unarmed, the cops would be killing many more. They are the new predators of society.
3
"But the report into the broader practices of the local police department will give the context for the shooting"
The contest of the shooting is : Brown had just assaulted a store clerk and stolen from the store. When the police officer stopped to question a man fitting the description of the suspect, Brown closed the car door on the officer, leaned in the car window and attacked the officer and tried to get the officer's gun. When the gun went off Brown turned and ran, with the officer giving chase. Brown then turned, put his head down and ran at the officer like a 6'4" 290 lb lineman going after a quarterback. The officer shot Brown in self defense. What was he supposed to do, let man who had just attacked him and tried to get his gun, attack him again?
Holder is a joke.
The contest of the shooting is : Brown had just assaulted a store clerk and stolen from the store. When the police officer stopped to question a man fitting the description of the suspect, Brown closed the car door on the officer, leaned in the car window and attacked the officer and tried to get the officer's gun. When the gun went off Brown turned and ran, with the officer giving chase. Brown then turned, put his head down and ran at the officer like a 6'4" 290 lb lineman going after a quarterback. The officer shot Brown in self defense. What was he supposed to do, let man who had just attacked him and tried to get his gun, attack him again?
Holder is a joke.
13
I see two issues as described in Matt Apuzzo's piece.
First, expectations: If the report discusses "expectations" in the context of police and community, if it is clear that police in Ferguson - and across America - have operated in the expectation that black behavior is expected to require relentless pressure from government, the problem the nation is facing will be clearer - for the national issue here is one of expectations. We simply expect blacks to misbehave on a grand scale, and so, they do. As the police see it, lack behavior justifies, we go from there. It's not clear that white behavior isn't worse, but we do not expect this, hence government hammers the down and out white less.
What if we expected blacks to behave 'better' than the rest of us? Preposterous? Who says? Considering what the black family through history has experienced, considering the lasting affect of slavery on families of affected blacks and whites, small wonder. Savagery of slavery set the course here, the nation will be dealing with this for years. We expect what is happening. How to we alter expectations?
Second, defensive arrogance of Eric Holder. Racial and color based divisiveness and prejudice is pronounced within the non white black or mulatto community, shade driven. Holder's manner reflects his sense of superiority - as the president's his since each took office. Holder's rises when with Obama. These men feel the race based opprobrium in Washington, DC to California. They react.
First, expectations: If the report discusses "expectations" in the context of police and community, if it is clear that police in Ferguson - and across America - have operated in the expectation that black behavior is expected to require relentless pressure from government, the problem the nation is facing will be clearer - for the national issue here is one of expectations. We simply expect blacks to misbehave on a grand scale, and so, they do. As the police see it, lack behavior justifies, we go from there. It's not clear that white behavior isn't worse, but we do not expect this, hence government hammers the down and out white less.
What if we expected blacks to behave 'better' than the rest of us? Preposterous? Who says? Considering what the black family through history has experienced, considering the lasting affect of slavery on families of affected blacks and whites, small wonder. Savagery of slavery set the course here, the nation will be dealing with this for years. We expect what is happening. How to we alter expectations?
Second, defensive arrogance of Eric Holder. Racial and color based divisiveness and prejudice is pronounced within the non white black or mulatto community, shade driven. Holder's manner reflects his sense of superiority - as the president's his since each took office. Holder's rises when with Obama. These men feel the race based opprobrium in Washington, DC to California. They react.
2
Speed traps, debtor prisons, stops for "driving while black." Small towns getting most of their revenue from bogus traffic stops. Seems like we should have put these behind us by now- guess not. I once fit a profile that got me unwanted attention from cops, but a haircut and clothing options were relatively easy fixes. Spending a lifetime under that suspicion could wear on a person. Hopefully a little sunlight provided by the Justice Department can help.
A side note about Albuquerque; Congresswoman Michelle Lujan Grisham brought up a concern about police training. Seems like the Department has been conducting training on the Air Force base at a facility perhaps more suited to combat training. Perhaps less emphasis on "us vs them" and firearm use, and more attention to defusing difficult situations without use of deadly force would be useful. So far APD has shown little inclination to change.
A side note about Albuquerque; Congresswoman Michelle Lujan Grisham brought up a concern about police training. Seems like the Department has been conducting training on the Air Force base at a facility perhaps more suited to combat training. Perhaps less emphasis on "us vs them" and firearm use, and more attention to defusing difficult situations without use of deadly force would be useful. So far APD has shown little inclination to change.
7
Holder is a joke, and we all know it. Who cares if he was racially profiled before? What matter is the catastrophic crime rate of black males in the US, which is far higher per capita than any other race. Therefore, racial profiling is the justified response to this reality.
When Holder has the courage to address the REAL problem of black criminal propensity, then he'll finally be worth something to the American public.
When Holder has the courage to address the REAL problem of black criminal propensity, then he'll finally be worth something to the American public.
16
This is excellent news and a fitting coda to Mr. Holder's admirable service as Attorney General. It's clear that some of this is due to the Justice Department's understandable frustration that proving civil rights violations against individuals is so difficult. The data clearly shows racial bias in traffic stops and it is important to note that if you cannot pay your ticket what to others might be a nuisance for you becomes something far more problematic. The fines will put you in debt and the court costs could lose you your job. Of course, cities have long used traffic stops as a major source of revenue, and it's especially disturbing that evidently police officers target African-Americans, guessing they are less likely to make phone calls or contact their state representative than white people. Mr. Holder wants to erase the idea that a black person, particularly men, should expect and thus be resigned to suffering through these humiliations. They should be every bit as outraged as white people would be, if they were so targeted.
5
The Ferguson traffic stop's biasing against blacks and resulting fine structures is behavior that is SO disgusting.
This is just another example of where our federal government performs a vital function in protecting the rights of everyone.
Republican politicians should not be returned to office until they see the utter stupid folly of trying to *drown govt. in a bathtub*. We need a well-functioning government like never before.
This is just another example of where our federal government performs a vital function in protecting the rights of everyone.
Republican politicians should not be returned to office until they see the utter stupid folly of trying to *drown govt. in a bathtub*. We need a well-functioning government like never before.
19
It took me just a few minutes to read some of the most popular (recommended) comments posted here to determine that racial prejudice is alive and thriving in America.
15
It is disingenuous to protest the work of Attorney General Holder - as so many people are doing. Racial minorities face complaints that they do not do enough for their own communities by getting a better education and attaining higher offices to help their own communities. And then they face complaints when they do exactly that. The Justice Department has officially found problems that many knew existed. Who can question the fact that so many police departments are not representative of the community they are supposed to serve? And events have shown us that these are the very departments that are involved in controversial incidents. It's not difficult to conclude that something is wrong. And now there is a result of an investigation showing that something is indeed wrong.
It would be far better to take the findings of this report and effect change following its recommendations than to get embroiled in another wasteful argument about the findings themselves. If we continue doing that, we are in danger of letting more incidents occur simply because we do nothing to fix the system.
It would be far better to take the findings of this report and effect change following its recommendations than to get embroiled in another wasteful argument about the findings themselves. If we continue doing that, we are in danger of letting more incidents occur simply because we do nothing to fix the system.
53
To whatever extent the Justice Department COULD perform a role in reducing racial discrimination in this country, it is impotent to do so because it is run by extremist ideologues rather than honest professionals.
1
@lsjogren - "...because it is run by extremist ideologues rather than honest professionals."
That's your opinion. I'd wager it's not true at all. The hyperbole in your comment only serves to illustrate the extreme polarization of our nation.
That's your opinion. I'd wager it's not true at all. The hyperbole in your comment only serves to illustrate the extreme polarization of our nation.
3
The Justice Department, and the Obama administration... --let me see-- are so, so outraged at the injustice here that, ahem, ended crafting a strongly worded memo.
I am sure such exercise of the law, such demonstration of conviction is striking fear and horror in the heart of all racists. Do I hear the sound of laughter instead?
I am sure such exercise of the law, such demonstration of conviction is striking fear and horror in the heart of all racists. Do I hear the sound of laughter instead?
4
I sincerely hope that this will serve as a deterrent, not just in Ferguson but throughout the nation. Racist cops impede justice wherever they are. They poison the well for good policing, and eventually impact the crime rate negatively. If minorities believe they are never going to get decent treatment from the police, they will never cooperate in crime control even in their own neighborhoods.
10
Can't he and Reverend Sharpton be satisfied with the riots that followed their visits to Ferguson? It isn't the city's fault that no indictment followed as well. And what do traffic stops have to do with shooting that was at issue? Haven't the citizens of Ferguson suffered enough? Do they now have to fund more Democratic patronage jobs?
13
To those of you claiming that blacks account for a disproportionate amount of the crime, pause for a moment to realize that this is a because blacks receive a far disproportionate amount of the policing in this country. How much crime is overlooked in this country because the perpetrators are white? If you are black you are far more likely to get stopped and searched. Thus, the bag of pot, etc., is found on the black person, but not on the white person who is allowed to just keep on driving. The latent racism found in the comments among NYT readers truly saddens me beyond measure.
12
The most recent Justice Department study shows that white (8.4%), black (8.8%), and Hispanic (9.1%) drivers were stopped by police at similar rates. The racial disparity in traffic stops is statistically insignificant. However, black drivers (12.3%) were about three times as likely as white drivers (3.9%) and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers (5.8%) to be searched during a traffic stop in 2008. However, The reason black and Hispanic drivers are more likely to be searched than whites is that they are more likely to have outstanding warrants for unpaid traffic tickets and other crimes. Police search drivers arrested for outstanding warrants before taking them to jail. When you see traffic cops searching drivers at traffic stops, it's almost always because the driver has outstanding warrants.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702
7
How many blacks have committed murders in Chicago in the last year? How many whites? What's the percentage of blacks in the population? It's not racial boss to say blacks commit disproportionately more crimes; in most cases, it's true.
2
PK: How many White Rhinos were killed last year for their tusks? Different topic just as yours is: Why do white folks like you have a "knack" for avoidance of the topic at hand. This isn't about black on black crime or white on white crime. But of course you already know that don't cha?
1
Unfortunately for the American republic, there is a caveat to statistics which will always make comparisons across races a fraught business that is open to fraud and ideology. Two people of different races are always different in other ways than race. Your statistics may report Black person is more likely to get a ticket/arrested than a white person, but what they may not record is that the Black person is more likely to be male. However, even if you compare only men, you might miss the fact that most Black males are younger than White males in the South. But, suppose you compared only Black and White males of the same age, you still might get differences because the Black male is poorer, from a worse neighborhood, raised by a single mother, had biological parents with criminal record...A good social scientist will put in all of these variables so that you can compare apples with apples. But, a wicked social scientists, newspaper reporter, prosecutor who wants to be a hero will ignore all of these differences, to the extent that he can get away with it. What ends up in the news is Black people are more likely to be Xed than Whites. Statistics is hard. America is on its way to destroying itself as a democracy because it's post civil rights Constitution mandates statistical parity in outcomes. But, most voters do not understand basic math, not to mention the nuances in the interpretation of statistics.
13
Statistics speaks for itself. A section of people who make up 63% of the population account for 86% of traffic stops. If this is not discrimination what else is. Police certainly have a duty to stop and search drivers. When blacks are more in number in a city, certainly, percentage of search will also be high. But 86% search is atrocious. Character and conduct of a person is not based on the colour of his skin.
There are plenty of ways by which revenue collection could be enhanced. Let the rich be taxed more. Mankind is more mature now. Discrimination on the basis of colour of skin is not a right thing.
As regards Brown's murder, less said the better. It is a gruesome murder, no matter how best the police action is defended. I am not calling it a murder just because the victim is a black and the officer is a white but because the victim is an unarmed person who did not show any sign of aggression or danger and the officer did not follow the protocol and standard operating system.
There are plenty of ways by which revenue collection could be enhanced. Let the rich be taxed more. Mankind is more mature now. Discrimination on the basis of colour of skin is not a right thing.
As regards Brown's murder, less said the better. It is a gruesome murder, no matter how best the police action is defended. I am not calling it a murder just because the victim is a black and the officer is a white but because the victim is an unarmed person who did not show any sign of aggression or danger and the officer did not follow the protocol and standard operating system.
5
Statistics speaks for themselves. The median age gap between Ferguson's black and white residents is 20 years wide. The Ferguson is 67.4 percent black and 28.7 percent non-Hispanic white, but the median age for black residents of Ferguson is only 28 while the median age for white Ferguson resident is 48. Fergusons' white population is aging and dying off, if not moving away. Ferguson has virtually no white teenagers and teenagers are more than twice as likely as adults to get traffic tickets. Young adults are on the road more than middle age adults.
4
"Character and conduct of a person is not based on the color of his skin." How true. However the statistic you cite is hardly proof of anything. What % of blacks in the community are product of a single parent (or no parent) family vs other races...how many were brought up in poverty vs other races. It is proven fact that young people raised without 2 parents and those raised in poverty are more likely to be involved in the criminal justice system...regardless of race. It is also a fact that the % of poverty and single parenthood is the highest in the black community of all races. Is it possible that these facts have some bearing on the over representation of blacks among those who are stopped by the police?
" the victim is an unarmed person who did not show any sign of aggression or danger and the officer did not follow the protocol and standard operating system."
How was attacking the police officer inside his car and trying to grab his gun not showing any sign of aggression?
How was attacking the police officer inside his car and trying to grab his gun not showing any sign of aggression?
1
How can anyone take this report from the Justice department seriously given Mr. Holders pre-determined attitude that Ferguson police were guilty regardless? The Obama administration clearly telegraphed this with sending Holder there, not to investigate but to meet with the "aggrieved citizens". Of course Mr Holder is intimately aware of the findings as his demonstrated hostility to law enforcement pre-destined what this report will contain. Shameless
14
Wow, RJ, it almost sounds like these poor police people are being persecuted by some big bad powerful authority that has an unfettered ability to make their lives living hell, impose financial penalties, and constantly put their liberty at risk, just because they have a pre-disposition to wear blue uniforms.
That must be horrible for those poor guys.
That must be horrible for those poor guys.
2
I'm still trying to figure out, per article, how Holder's visit to Ferguson calmed tensions??
2
So, has Ferguson set up a defense fund? I've got a $50 bill to donate. Take Holder up on his offer or a law suit.I think Holder will lose
8
Eric Holder is to Ferguson what Ken Starr was to Whitewater. Both of them spent millions of dollars and used hundreds of lawyers to look for evidence of wrongdoing and both of them came up with nothing. Neither one of them had the goods so in order to save face they reached and came up with some very weak stuff.
17
Ferguson should let itself be sued -- and win
For what Attorney General Holder has done is not only unprecedented and unheard-of, but also a lasting embarrassment to his own department and deputies.
Especially when there is no evidence of racial discrimination among Ferguson's police to begin with.
For what Attorney General Holder has done is not only unprecedented and unheard-of, but also a lasting embarrassment to his own department and deputies.
Especially when there is no evidence of racial discrimination among Ferguson's police to begin with.
14
Steven, Did you miss the part about the substantially disproportionate stop ratio and inverted contraband ratios? I guess you did miss that part.
1
If the report tries to connect traffic ticket ipolicy to a confrontation between a police officer and a young man who had no drivers license, it is going to rquire a leap of faith.
4
Police are undertrained to handle tough situations like what happened in Ferguson, Cleveland, and New York... it is not because of race- race is a byproduct of a lack of training.
I think that a lot of these situations could be avoided by properly training officers to not only deal with high stress situations but also to speak with people in a calm manner and learn deescalation.
I don't think Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown because Brown was black. I think Wilson was trained to find people who are breaking the law, confront the situation, and handle the situation in a swift manner.
That's what Wilson did.. he confronted Brown who was walking in the street, Brown said something back defying the officer's command to walk on the sidewalk. Wilson then recognized Brown matched the description of the call that came in regarding the incident about stolen cigarillos from the store, and then we know the result. Wilson should have recognized that Brown was in a bad place, maintained a safe distance, and begun a calm dialogue until help arrived. If a calm dialogue could not have been formed, then Wilson should have kept a safe distance and again waited for help.
Same thing with the officer who shot the kid in the park in Cleveland. They pulled up within ten feet of a kid who had pellet gun (which looks like a gun) and the officer got scared and shot the kid. The park was empty. Keep a safe distance, secure a perimeter, assess the situation, and begin a calm dialogue.
I think that a lot of these situations could be avoided by properly training officers to not only deal with high stress situations but also to speak with people in a calm manner and learn deescalation.
I don't think Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown because Brown was black. I think Wilson was trained to find people who are breaking the law, confront the situation, and handle the situation in a swift manner.
That's what Wilson did.. he confronted Brown who was walking in the street, Brown said something back defying the officer's command to walk on the sidewalk. Wilson then recognized Brown matched the description of the call that came in regarding the incident about stolen cigarillos from the store, and then we know the result. Wilson should have recognized that Brown was in a bad place, maintained a safe distance, and begun a calm dialogue until help arrived. If a calm dialogue could not have been formed, then Wilson should have kept a safe distance and again waited for help.
Same thing with the officer who shot the kid in the park in Cleveland. They pulled up within ten feet of a kid who had pellet gun (which looks like a gun) and the officer got scared and shot the kid. The park was empty. Keep a safe distance, secure a perimeter, assess the situation, and begin a calm dialogue.
3
The Justice Departments agree with you on the Michael Brown shooting.
Race politics is alive and well as evidenced by this witch hunt on the Ferguson Police Department. The DOJ didn't have the foothold to indict the innocent officer in this case who was acquitted by a grand jury. Instead, they have settled the score with a frivolous federal lawsuit. Perhaps, Rev. Al Sharpton will host a celebratory dinner for Eric Holder. Collectively, they can celebrate the many ways they have set race relations back a few decades in the U.S.A. First, there was Tawana Brawley and now Michael Brown. Cheers Eric and Al! You certainly know how to divide people and create a rift between fellow Americans.
18
"Taking sides?"
I thought the police were on our side, the side of the public the police are hired to serve. I guess you have to be naive these days not to realize that the police don't see themselves -- or us -- that way.
Just who do the police think they are? Whose country do they think they are occupying and why do they think they are doing it? Are they really working for millionaires and billionaires who are aiming to enslave us? Are they thugs because that is what they like to be?
I thought the police were on our side, the side of the public the police are hired to serve. I guess you have to be naive these days not to realize that the police don't see themselves -- or us -- that way.
Just who do the police think they are? Whose country do they think they are occupying and why do they think they are doing it? Are they really working for millionaires and billionaires who are aiming to enslave us? Are they thugs because that is what they like to be?
46
I do not want to sound like a conspiracy theories henchman but police serve somebody else than public. Private armies become more and more popular all around the world and it is sad to realise American police force is just one of them. Capital subjugates the state when the latter becomes too weak and at this point, I am afraid, we've crossed the line.
Holder was taking sides, not the police -- and Holder was taking the side of the thug, Michael Brown, over that of the policeman, who even Holder has now admitted, did not violate Michael Brown's civil rights. It's good to know, even if it is months later, that Holder is unwilling to take the position that a policeman is not entitled to use force to save his life from an attack by a thug.
3
Don't you at all question the growing trend of taunting police, and after the situation escalates, claiming innocence? I find this very dangerous if civil discourse is ever to be attained by all races.
Eric Holder, representing the entire populace needs to keep his private feelings private and just do his job. Al Sharpton is a shrewd, calculating muckraker. While he has cleaned up his sartorial presentation and cut his hair, he is in the game for the power and face time as evidenced by his pejorative words and actions. Rather than calming waters, he stirs the pot.
Eric Holder, representing the entire populace needs to keep his private feelings private and just do his job. Al Sharpton is a shrewd, calculating muckraker. While he has cleaned up his sartorial presentation and cut his hair, he is in the game for the power and face time as evidenced by his pejorative words and actions. Rather than calming waters, he stirs the pot.
2
There is a perfectly logical reason why blacks would account for more traffic stops than whites. As indicated. blacks were often unable to pay the tickets issued. So if the stops were originally proportionate, subsequent stops would involve more blacks, to include those who were the subject of warrants for non-payment.
32
Umm, you don't make traffic stops for prior non-payments, even assuming you can tell who is driving AND that they have a warrant.
26
No. There have been many many studies that accounted for all of the probable reasons why Blacks might be issued more citations. The conclusion is that the only reason is race. Here is one of many studies http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2013/09/kalamazoo_public_s...
2
Without the numbers, it is impossible to factually say "there is a simple, logical explanation..." and dismiss the problem with a simple "ipso facto..." All too often I think we seek the simplistic explanation that makes a wrong look less wrong. We seek to turn uncomfortable mountains into more comfortable molehills. This actually makes things worse by sweeping the problem under the carpet - beware simplistic answers.
1
“I wanted the people of Ferguson to know that I personally understood that mistrust,” Mr. Holder said last summer after returning from Missouri. “I wanted them to know that while so much else may be uncertain, this attorney general and this Department of Justice stands with the people of Ferguson.”
It's quite troubling to see and Attorney General of the United States, in his own words, prejudge a case.... ANY... case.
It's quite troubling to see and Attorney General of the United States, in his own words, prejudge a case.... ANY... case.
124
As if we didn't see Ferguson police out of control and mistreating the Black citizens of Ferguson. What reality to you inhabit?
101
Well if he was blind, dumb, daft and deaf he might not have noticed that 30% of the town budget was being funded by traffic fines the vast majority of them on black citizens, but then he wouldn't be AG would he? What's your excuse?
25
I don't see the Atty General's comments as prejudging at all. He said he understood how people can mistrust the police. He also said he stood with the people. He did not say that Ferguson police department was guilty. Also you can stand with people and still constructively criticize them if necessary. Finally we do not know how much evidence the Atty General had at the time he made these statements. Most likely the evidence provided justification for mistrust and for the need to standby the citizens.
3
So behind the more dramatic events culminating in the killing of Michael Brown (still an example of murderously poor policing) there is the more systemic violence of "soak the poor" (as long as they're black, meaning that no one in the majority will care). Fine somebody, jail her (for some minor traffic infraction?) if she can't pay, meanwhile up the fine, jail her some more if she still can't pay, etc. . . . absurd. Of course, the fact that police departments rely for their funding on this kind of thing is itself a wake-up call--tax and spend, please, rather than this invitation to uniformed extortion. And the fact that searches disproportionately target black drivers even though they turn up contraband twice as often in searches of white drivers seems to be conveniently forgotten in many of these comments. It's a lot easier to make snap judgments about "thugs" (sans any sort of fair trial on either side) than it is to get serious about the systemic, day-to-day abuses that still wreck people's lives.
186
I don't dispute the scenario, but I fail to see how ticketing and jailing the poor can improve revenue -- if the poor are too poor to pay, and then they are jailed, it's more of a cost for the municipality.
4
Ticketing and arresting people who cannot pay the fines would inflict great cost on government not subsidize it. If that is the basis of the justice department's case then the case is what is absurd and just proves that the justice department was just looking for something that could result in a political solution and that the cost would be paid by the officers that were doing and losing their jobs, and at the cost of the good citizens (black, white, whoever).
3
Seriously- You're not accusing Officer Wilson of murder. He's been cleared of that. Brown's own actions resulted in his death, period. You discredit your argument by starting with fallacy.
2
A disproportionally white police department fining a disproportionally black citizenry for minor infractions
is not a recipe for good relations within a community.
Something needs to be fixed. Fast.
is not a recipe for good relations within a community.
Something needs to be fixed. Fast.
174
Yep, a disproportionately black police department fining a disproportionately black citizenry for minor infractions is probably the right recipe. Something needs to be fixed. Fast.
Are you suggesting that blacks (but not other nationalities) be allowed to violate "minor" laws with impunity?
That certainly does not strike me as fair or equitable.
That certainly does not strike me as fair or equitable.
2
Sometimes I wonder which century we are living in. America seems to be disintegrating into something resembling a time warp or time regression to another era. Are the Southern States that made of the Confederacy actually part of the "United States of America"? How many hundreds and thousands of tiny rural towns; townships, unincorporated areas of the South, still function in complete autonomy- devoid of the reality that Slavery was abolished [at least on paper] in 1865. To be fair; others areas of this nation are experiencing the resurgence of blatant race profiling and race-specific attacks on civil rights- but at least the media tends to shed light on these areas more often than not; however the South- "is still the South" in all its "uniqueness".
2
I the famous words of Private Pyle...."Surprise, surprise, surprise..." It's always easy to criticize after the fact and when you're surrounded by full time security, 1500 miles away.
18
"Blacks accounted for 86 percent of traffic stops in 2013 but make up 63 percent of the population, according to the most recent data published by the Missouri attorney general."
Since the Justice Department want to get to the bottom of this ticketing scandal, there is something they could do.
They should randomly stop 100 white drivers and 100 African-American drivers in Ferguson. Of course the drivers and passengers would be financially compensated for their time and inconvenience.
But during the stop the driver's license, registration and proof of insurance should be inspected. Also they could give each vehicle a cursory safety inspection.
Of course amnesty would be provided if any traffic violations were discovered. After this inspection the results should be published. One hundred drivers not enough? Then stop more. But please publish the results for all to see.
" And once they were stopped, black drivers were twice as likely to be searched, even though searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband."
Please provide a description of the "contraband".
Since the Justice Department want to get to the bottom of this ticketing scandal, there is something they could do.
They should randomly stop 100 white drivers and 100 African-American drivers in Ferguson. Of course the drivers and passengers would be financially compensated for their time and inconvenience.
But during the stop the driver's license, registration and proof of insurance should be inspected. Also they could give each vehicle a cursory safety inspection.
Of course amnesty would be provided if any traffic violations were discovered. After this inspection the results should be published. One hundred drivers not enough? Then stop more. But please publish the results for all to see.
" And once they were stopped, black drivers were twice as likely to be searched, even though searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband."
Please provide a description of the "contraband".
21
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Ferguson is 67.4 percent black and 28.7 percent non-Hispanic white, but the median age for black residents of Ferguson is only 28 while the median age for white Ferguson residents is 48. Younger motorists are one the road more often than older motorists, and younger drivers are much likely to get traffic tickets. Most white Ferguson residents never stray from their television sets afer dark. The citation rate for 16 to 19-year-olds is 2.1 times higher than drivers of all ages, and blacks make up a much larger percentage of Ferguson's teenage population than they do of its adult population.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/2923986.html
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/2923986.html
1
@William Case:" Younger motorists are one the road more often than older motorists, and younger drivers are much likely to get traffic tickets. "
There you go, it's not racially based. It can be explained by age. Be sure to let Holder and Obama know about this.
"Most white Ferguson residents never stray from their television sets afer dark"
I didn't see any stats on that, but I wonder why they never do so?
There you go, it's not racially based. It can be explained by age. Be sure to let Holder and Obama know about this.
"Most white Ferguson residents never stray from their television sets afer dark"
I didn't see any stats on that, but I wonder why they never do so?
So, Ferguson's version of a poll-tax-shakedown has been discriminatory for years, according to the fed report yet to be released. Are there any plans for reparations? Compensation for the legions of blacks who carried that city on their backs? Civil suits? If Ferguson is doing it, is it happening in other places? That was a faux question! Yet, undoubtedly happening in other places.
37
Although this is probably a good thing, it appears that the DOJ waited to see what the reaction would be to the announcement that Ferguson police would not be charged with a crime, and then decided to go ahead with this plan.
It would be better if it just proceeded on solid principles instead of putting its finger in the wind.
It would be better if it just proceeded on solid principles instead of putting its finger in the wind.
15
And you know this is what the Justice Dept did because.....that's the way they do?
The Ferguson municipal budget is online. Last fiscal year, it took in revenues of $19,064,100, of which $2,732,000 came from fines, including but not limited to traffic fines. Fines accounted for 14.3 percent of the city's revenues. However the Police Department had operating costs of $5,282,9009 while the Municipal Court had operating costs of $353,000, for a total of $5,635,900. So, the Ferguson Police Department and Municipal Court operate at a significant loss that has to be covered by sales taxes, property taxes and other sources of revenue.
http://www.fergusoncity.com/DocumentCenter/View/1609
so fines, including revenues generated by traffic fines over less than
http://www.fergusoncity.com/DocumentCenter/View/1609
so fines, including revenues generated by traffic fines over less than
12
I may be naïve but isn't it common practice for police to be funded through taxes? Fines should be to punish those breaking the law and deter potential lawbreakers and not as a major source of revenue.
I have no ideas of the facts of this report. However, disparate impact "crimes" are all in the eye of the beholder. SAT tests, criminal background checks, police promotion exams, and anything else that results in the "wrong" percentage of favored minorities is discrimination. I don't care that Asians score very highly and have displaced whites at elite universities. But then again, I'm inclined to value merit.
43
Where every system since the inception of this country has originated with disparate treatment and then, from there, moved on to disparate impact, a few white students not into their college of choice seems a detatched and trivial comparison to make. It leads one to believe that those who have not been affected for the last four hundred years and remain affected today choose to operate in the bubble that has protected them since the very beginning.
1
Another Holder/Obama shakedown.
"We will bear the unlimited resources of the Federal Government on you, unless you (banker, police department, oil company) do what makes me look good politically".
Shameless.
"We will bear the unlimited resources of the Federal Government on you, unless you (banker, police department, oil company) do what makes me look good politically".
Shameless.
55
Yeah, because it's eminently fair that black drivers pay for driving black, ehile white drivers get away with carrying contraband.
1
So Justice will get their pound of flesh one way or another to save face.
38
"The broader practices of the local police department will give context for the shooting." Really? You could argue that the weather and day of the week gave context. While no one lives in a vacuum in this instance the actions of the participants defined the event. This article belongs in the op-ed.
39
More and more of the New York Times "belongs in the Op-Ed." This once-proudly independent publication is rapidly turning into a version of MSNBC -- all propaganda, all the time.
5
And so here in Ferguson, MO we will find that African Americans are being disproportionately stopped by police, ticketed and the resultant fines are being used as a substitute to normal municipal finance. This could have been prevented and here's how:
If the Obama Administration had mustered the courage and worked to pass the End Racial Profiling Act in 2009 when it had majorities in both houses of Congress, this whole tragedy in Ferguson might never have happened. But ever since Harvard-Gate(s), the Obama Administration has placed civil rights in the envelope and mailed-it-home.
The End Racial Profiling Act is the bill that U.S. Senator Obama was for before U.S. President Obama was against it. The End Racial Profiling Act was specifically supported by U.S. Presidential Candidate Obama on Page 166 of his 2008 campaign book. It is now a massively broken promise, made in writing, and it is perhaps the biggest retreat on U.S. civil rights since the Republicans ended Reconstruction.
As a result of the absolute capitulation on U.S. civil rights by the Obama Administration, the End Racial Profiling Act is still languishing on the floor of Congress like it has since 2000. My supposition is that If this bill didn't disproportionately benefit African Americans, it would have been enacted in President Obama's first 100 days. Now, hopelessly over-triangulated, President Obama can't even muster the courage to say the phrase "End Racial Profiling Act" in public!
If the Obama Administration had mustered the courage and worked to pass the End Racial Profiling Act in 2009 when it had majorities in both houses of Congress, this whole tragedy in Ferguson might never have happened. But ever since Harvard-Gate(s), the Obama Administration has placed civil rights in the envelope and mailed-it-home.
The End Racial Profiling Act is the bill that U.S. Senator Obama was for before U.S. President Obama was against it. The End Racial Profiling Act was specifically supported by U.S. Presidential Candidate Obama on Page 166 of his 2008 campaign book. It is now a massively broken promise, made in writing, and it is perhaps the biggest retreat on U.S. civil rights since the Republicans ended Reconstruction.
As a result of the absolute capitulation on U.S. civil rights by the Obama Administration, the End Racial Profiling Act is still languishing on the floor of Congress like it has since 2000. My supposition is that If this bill didn't disproportionately benefit African Americans, it would have been enacted in President Obama's first 100 days. Now, hopelessly over-triangulated, President Obama can't even muster the courage to say the phrase "End Racial Profiling Act" in public!
13
You suppose that racial profiling does not also disproportionately benefit law abiding African American who want to live in places not plagued by crime. The victims of AA crime are mostly AA. The beneficiary of a decrease in AA crime as also AA.
God, yes. Some small justice.
15
The comments on this article are disgusting. The article clearly outlines the facts that caused the Justice Department to intervene.
The City of Ferguson police dept. is a criminal enterprise because it uses traffic stops as an illegal stop gap revenue generator. Similar to the City of Chicago traffic camera program, and the asset seizure program Holder recently ended.
I applaud Mr. Holder for promoting Justice, liberty and limiting the size and power of local police forces. While I didn't agree with everything he did, his actions limiting police power were greatly appreciated.
The City of Ferguson police dept. is a criminal enterprise because it uses traffic stops as an illegal stop gap revenue generator. Similar to the City of Chicago traffic camera program, and the asset seizure program Holder recently ended.
I applaud Mr. Holder for promoting Justice, liberty and limiting the size and power of local police forces. While I didn't agree with everything he did, his actions limiting police power were greatly appreciated.
144
I believe you hit the nail squarely on the head.
1
"Investigators do not need to prove that Ferguson’s policies are racially motivated or that the police intentionally singled out minorities. "
Ferguson is guilty until proven innocent.
"They need to show only that police tactics had a “disparate impact” on African-Americans and that this was avoidable."
Avoidable? Sure, just don't arrest any African-Americans. That should make Holder and Obama happy. The citizens of Ferguson will suffer, but what do they know?
Ferguson is guilty until proven innocent.
"They need to show only that police tactics had a “disparate impact” on African-Americans and that this was avoidable."
Avoidable? Sure, just don't arrest any African-Americans. That should make Holder and Obama happy. The citizens of Ferguson will suffer, but what do they know?
67
It is a legal standard. Set forth by the law. Not Obama and Holder.....
I give up!
I give up!
6
Actually what you suggest would also be illegal. Welcome to the 14th Amendment. While you're here, read up on substantive due process - it can be a doozy, but what you'll mostly need is the rational basis test and the equal protection clause.
1
Ahhhh, but will the citizens of Ferguson suffer? It strikes me that the citizens of Ferguson are already suffering under the current practices.
1
I am appalled by the rush to judgment expressed in these letters - before all the facts are known. The spewing of venom is not the way to approach complex attitudes and realities as we strive for justice.
28
Have you been equally appalled at the rush to judgement in these cases? Even before investigations were complete, before grand jury proceedings were commenced let alone completed, there was the usual immediate judgement by many of the chattering classes and Internet hordes who demanded a cop's head on a pike because they already "knew" what had happened. Let's go out and march and protest, because, hey, it's "obvious" what happened, right? That is hardly striving for Justice.
5
When a citizen is brutalized, the public is horrified. I stand by my comment….
even words intended to calm emotions like mine.. thanks to the public’s willingness to subject themselves to media by the minute, may be worth little. Let’s keep our eye on the Justice Department’s effort to move our ailing communities ahead
even words intended to calm emotions like mine.. thanks to the public’s willingness to subject themselves to media by the minute, may be worth little. Let’s keep our eye on the Justice Department’s effort to move our ailing communities ahead
A few comments in and the logic - such as it were - is apparent: a dislike of Holder automatically makes him factually incorrect.
A reaction that is as predictable as the setting sun. Why don't conservatives ever tire of themselves?
A reaction that is as predictable as the setting sun. Why don't conservatives ever tire of themselves?
124
Just like the predictable defense of Mr. Holder no matter what won't tire progressives?
Holder has been a polarizing AG from the start, and has run his department with more than a healthy dose of the politics he favors. He may be right or wrong in any given case, but there is no denying he has merited the sceptical reception his pronouncements entail.
Holder has been a polarizing AG from the start, and has run his department with more than a healthy dose of the politics he favors. He may be right or wrong in any given case, but there is no denying he has merited the sceptical reception his pronouncements entail.
2
George S.,
The truth is coming out. It has little to do with the demonizatoon of Holder by the Republicans.
The truth is coming out. It has little to do with the demonizatoon of Holder by the Republicans.
1
Do you see the prejudice in assuming that everyone who dislikes Holder's behavior in Ferguson and his subsequent report is conservative?
I'm a Democrat who has voted a straight Democratic ticket for fifty years. Michael Brown is responsible for his own death and for ruining a promising young officer's career.
I'm a Democrat who has voted a straight Democratic ticket for fifty years. Michael Brown is responsible for his own death and for ruining a promising young officer's career.
1
"Blacks accounted for 86 percent of traffic stops in 2013 but make up 63 percent of the population"
Blacks also disproportionately account for more than their share of crime. So all police forces and judiciaries "violate" civil rights when they arrest and convict blacks disproportionately?
"Of color" racism at its best!
Blacks also disproportionately account for more than their share of crime. So all police forces and judiciaries "violate" civil rights when they arrest and convict blacks disproportionately?
"Of color" racism at its best!
74
Blacks do not disproportionately commit more crimes. Research shows that crimes are fairly equally spread between Blacks and Whites. Check out the DOJ statistic and research on the matter. Also there have been many research studies that prove that race is the primary reason for Blacks getting more citations, more prison time, etc.
7
We're talking enforcing traffic laws here, not violent crime. This investigation mentioned in the article doesn't even touch that issue. Please stop trying to obfuscate the issue addressed here.
2
Missed the part about white Ferguson drivers being more likely to be carrying contraband/breaking the law, did you?
1
Finally something good comes out if Holder's justice department
6
It appears Holder will only be content when those breaking the law will feel exonerated by a new found impunity granted by his "Justice" Department.
40
On the face of it, it appears that the percentages of traffic stops and other police encounters show a bias toward blacks. If we are to have an honest discussion about race in this country, the issue of 50 percent of murders in this country committed by 11 percent of the population can not be ignored. If the racial make up of the police department reflected the local population, would there by a drop in violent crime?
78
To have an honest discussion, we need to be honest about statistics. It is not true that 50 percent of murders are committed by 11 percent of the population...nice try.
7
"the issue of 50 percent of murders in this country committed by 11 percent of the population can not be ignored"
Nor can the fact that 50% of murders are committed by 89%... if those numbers are true to begin with. Every life is important. And so prosecuting every murder is important. Since when did percentages get a moral weight?
Nor can the fact that 50% of murders are committed by 89%... if those numbers are true to begin with. Every life is important. And so prosecuting every murder is important. Since when did percentages get a moral weight?
2
In the eyes of Holder and other black "activists," the idea of "honesty" is for whites to plead guilty. Eric Holder and his boss, Barack Obama, have set race relations back by decades.
4
This outcome reflects a clear, impartial look at the facts: that the racial makeup of law enforcement in Ferguson is hugely disproportional to the population at large, and that this can result in disproportionate prosecution along racial lines. This, combined with the unsettling militaristic response of police officers to demonstrators, underscores a major disconnect between law enforcement officials and the community they're supposed to protect.
The problems of Ferguson also reflect policing issues nationwide. As some comments in this section show well enough, criticism of police officers and conduct is not well received, and sometimes reflexively dismissed, regardless of how necessary it is in illuminating clear structural flaws and injustices.
This is a step towards reform. Let's accept it not as a desire to condemn police officers, but to set forward a pathway towards better representation and more effective law enforcement.
The problems of Ferguson also reflect policing issues nationwide. As some comments in this section show well enough, criticism of police officers and conduct is not well received, and sometimes reflexively dismissed, regardless of how necessary it is in illuminating clear structural flaws and injustices.
This is a step towards reform. Let's accept it not as a desire to condemn police officers, but to set forward a pathway towards better representation and more effective law enforcement.
228
"Let's accept it not as a desire to condemn police officers..." Oh, but to many that is exactly what this "report" was intended to find from the start. There is no denying that there are some bad officers, but you only need read many comments in such articles in the NYT (with a supposedly more informed readership) to quickly gather that some insist every single police officer is a bully, racist, joined just to lord it over people, are to their core unreasonable mean thugs to see that there is nothing good enough to assuage the hatred some feel toward law enforcement. Facts matter little if they don't fit the desired narrative (using key terms like "gentle giant", "gunned down", "executed", "teenager", etc.). Couple that with an American attitude that every rule should have an exception, that rules of civil society are for the other guy, and you don't exactly have a recipe for moving forward.
68
"...unsettling militaristic response of police officers to demonstrators..."
I would challenge that assessment. Far too many of the protestors were in fact rioters, as evidenced by the burned and looted businesses. Further, the police came under gunfire on several occasions. You can't reasonable expect the police not to use all the tools at their disposal in an attempt to not be killed. I would argue that the fact that no people were killed is a testament to the professionalism of the police.
I would challenge that assessment. Far too many of the protestors were in fact rioters, as evidenced by the burned and looted businesses. Further, the police came under gunfire on several occasions. You can't reasonable expect the police not to use all the tools at their disposal in an attempt to not be killed. I would argue that the fact that no people were killed is a testament to the professionalism of the police.
32
Why aren't there more African American police officers? Not just in Ferguson, but in every city with predominately large African American populations? It would seem that this would be a "step towards reform" too.
11
"Investigators do not need to prove that Ferguson's polices are racially motivated...only that police tactics had a 'disparate impact' on African Americans...." "Mr. Holder has stood by his remarks, saying they were based on his deep understanding of the case." It seems that Mr. Holder has a long track record of how he conceptualizes these events and really did not need to do any investigation or study to come to these conclusions. And he is being given full authority beyond any challenge to decide and dictate the penalty and punishment. So much for justice at the Justice Department and the White House. Why even pretend that there is fairness and balance? For Mr. Holder and Mr. Obama, everything goes back to inequality--racial and economic--and darn whether or not the investigation is unbiased; now it is time for payback!
36
We have an enormous problem with policing in this country and it won't be solved just by creating diversity in police departments and organizing police/youth programs . We have an increasingly militarized police department, a culture of police impunity that is enabled by politicians and prosecutors, and a failed justice system that blackmails defendants into guilty pleas, locks up a far higher percentage of the population than the rest of the world and then throws away the key. Change has to start with the basic idea that every member of our society is or can be productive human being and deserves the support of the rest of us in achieving that. Then we would have a standard we could hold politicians, judges, prosecutors and police accountable for.
75
Come to Ferguson and its surrounds in a state where a judge has just ruled that it is the right of a felon to own a gun, thanks to an idiotic Missouri constitutional amendment. The St. Louis area surpassed all homicide rates last year. A police officer was recently attacked after a routine traffic stop in this area, in the same way Brown attacked Wilson. Imagine yourself, in this environment, charged with keeping the peace, while others like you denigrate law enforcement officers as a group. The next time someone tries to rob or assault you, call Eric holder.
19
Spencer "Imagine yourself, in this environment, charged with keeping the peace, while others like you denigrate law enforcement officers as a group."
How dare you -- how dare you talk about the difficulty of doing your job while 'denigrated', when there are people dead, due to the bias & tolerance of brutality which seems to be accepted in law enforcement culture everywhere in America, these days?
Noone expects criminals to have basic principles of fairness & justice; law enforcement officers must have
them. Apparently you don't believe that.
How dare you -- how dare you talk about the difficulty of doing your job while 'denigrated', when there are people dead, due to the bias & tolerance of brutality which seems to be accepted in law enforcement culture everywhere in America, these days?
Noone expects criminals to have basic principles of fairness & justice; law enforcement officers must have
them. Apparently you don't believe that.
1
By hook or by crook, Holder was going to find something.
79
@La Verdad - That's because there was something to be found.
6
Well, when there's plenty to be found, it makes sense any competent AG would, no? Or do you think it's fine this city's budget is unfairly based on black drivers' backs?
1
La Verdad. Probably, of every 100 people who read this
comment of yours, 99 will erupt in a Bronx cheer. If you read anything about Ferguson, you know that there was plenty
to find, so you are lying when you say 'by hook or by crook'.
If you know nothing about it, you are lying by making a statement
purporting to express an actual opinion. Your screen name is either a joke or a delusion.
comment of yours, 99 will erupt in a Bronx cheer. If you read anything about Ferguson, you know that there was plenty
to find, so you are lying when you say 'by hook or by crook'.
If you know nothing about it, you are lying by making a statement
purporting to express an actual opinion. Your screen name is either a joke or a delusion.
2
more political extortion brought to us by one of the most outrageous attorneys general in history. and you wonder why race relations are so bad- the "drumbeat" of find someone to blame other than the person who punched a police officer in the face while he sat in his car… its not justice, and ultimately does far more damage to our society.
77
"4USA", did you ever hear of "That statement is no longer operative" Attourney General Edwin Meese? He was the cop in charge of a very corrupt Reagan Administration who saw lots of its members get indicted for serious crimes.
The damage done to our society is the work of racist police departments everywhere in this country abusing the rights of minority citizens, How many people of color have to be choked to death, shot dead, or merely beaten up by police forces around this nation before it becomes clear that something is very wrong in our society? And whatever Michael Brown did or didn't do, he did NOT deserve to be shot down like a dog in the street. Our attorney general has done an excellent job.
3
Evaluating police officers on number of arrests, prosecutions, or tickets written is a perverse incentive system.
Changing police officers into revenue generators with a gun is a bad, bad idea. Embracing practices like civil forfeiture is little different than organized shakedowns.
When too many of citizens' interaction with police become either paying a toll or proving you are innocent while walking around, distrust and hatred grow and police officers circle tighter into an us versus them mentality.
Policing shouldn't be hall monitors enforcing more and more restrictions in more and more punitive and $ raising punishment.
Biases need to be rooted out but more importantly the incentive system for policing need to change.
Changing police officers into revenue generators with a gun is a bad, bad idea. Embracing practices like civil forfeiture is little different than organized shakedowns.
When too many of citizens' interaction with police become either paying a toll or proving you are innocent while walking around, distrust and hatred grow and police officers circle tighter into an us versus them mentality.
Policing shouldn't be hall monitors enforcing more and more restrictions in more and more punitive and $ raising punishment.
Biases need to be rooted out but more importantly the incentive system for policing need to change.
117
You make a really important point that most people seem to miss.
3
What I find to be the most upsetting about this is the hit the Department of Justice has taken. Not just because of Ferguson, but throughout Mr. Holder's tenure. Generally the Dept. of Justice does good work, but that is overshadowed by Mr. Holder's clear intention to use the power of the Federal government to strike at people with whom he disagrees, notwithstanding actual criminal acts.
Quite frankly, and as much as it pains me to say this, I would have a difficult time believing any case the Federal government put on in its current state should I be called to serve as a juror. The vast majority of attorneys working for the Dept. of Justice are good, decent people who only want to enforce the law and make our country a more just one. Unfortunately, in my eyes, they are being tainted by Mr. Holder and his incompetence. I would have a very difficult time, as a juror in a Federal case, voting guilty on any case the government put forward simply because of my inability to tell what cases are being purely pursued and what are Mr. Holder punishing descent.
In short, Mr. Holder has put a taint on the Justice Department that will take a considerable amount of time to remove. Quite frankly, he reminds me of Richard Nixon much more than I'm comfortable with.
Quite frankly, and as much as it pains me to say this, I would have a difficult time believing any case the Federal government put on in its current state should I be called to serve as a juror. The vast majority of attorneys working for the Dept. of Justice are good, decent people who only want to enforce the law and make our country a more just one. Unfortunately, in my eyes, they are being tainted by Mr. Holder and his incompetence. I would have a very difficult time, as a juror in a Federal case, voting guilty on any case the government put forward simply because of my inability to tell what cases are being purely pursued and what are Mr. Holder punishing descent.
In short, Mr. Holder has put a taint on the Justice Department that will take a considerable amount of time to remove. Quite frankly, he reminds me of Richard Nixon much more than I'm comfortable with.
76
As a juror, you should NOT consider the AG's possible motives. You should consider the FACTS of the case. Not understanding your sworn duty would make you unfit as a juror, and make you as partisan as you accuse Holder.
6
What is your starting criterion for comparison, election? What a laughable closing shot.
Then you shouldn't be a juror. Jurors aren't instructed to consider intent in cases like this; they're instructed to rule based on the facts and the law. If there's discrimination haplening in Boston and that's proven, it doesn't matter if Holder opened the case because he's a Yankees fan.
4
It looks like a personal vendetta by Mrs. Holder and Obama. They cannot win through the real legal system so they use intimidation and taxpayer money for their own agenda. Shameful.
47
in a community of predominantly african-american, the police force should be alot more integrated. that should be one of the terms of a settlement.
21
Has there been any charges brought against anyone for arson or looting of the businesses that were destroyed during the protests or has the police's time to investigate these crimes been hampered by the Justice Department"s investigation?
65
Also, any charges brought against those who made death threats against officer Wilson?
27
Many of the looters were probably arrested and charged.
2
So they can't charge Darren Wilson with civil right charges so the next best thing is to go after cops for ticket writing? Okay. But the only "context" we need for the Michael Brown shooting was that he was a thug who committed strong arm robbery and then assaulted a police officer.
58
Of course the Justice Department will fault Ferguson! That is always the case. They do not want to waste their time correcting the problems, only pointing fingers as children do in a schoolyard. And that is always a solution, isn't it? Now they can go back to their 8 to 5 jobs and forget Ferguson, as do the locals.
18
we are the only country in the world, where citizens are sent to jail for minor traffic infractions, this has to stop now!
69
The only way the problem will be corrected is if they take action. What you call pointing fingers is actually doing their jobs. You can't say there needs to be change and then criticize the actions that will spark change.
25
The settlement they are seeking will require Ferguson to correct the profiling problems their community has created and exploited for financial gain. They will be monitored and fined for years to come if they don't mend their ways. It's not just finger pointing.
23
Holder predetermined the outcome of the investigation by saying that changes were needed in the police department while the investigation was taking place. How can his subordinates conduct a fair and independent investigation when they know what he wants? He's their boss.
81
The investigation had be going on for months when he made the comments. Isn't it possible that they had already uncovered enough to warrant the comments.
20
Shameless political move to cover the fact that they got nothing on officer Wilson.
107
If they wanted Officer Wilson, they would have charged him. This isn't about him. This is about the city instructing the police to violate the constitutional rights of the people, who they are supposed to serve, for profit. There is nothing to be gained politically.
74
Here we go.
Another jab at Obama vis-a-vis Holder.
Where is your proof, RS? Your evidence? A shred of data that this is a "Shameless political move to cover the fact that they got nothing on officer Wilson"?
Another jab at Obama vis-a-vis Holder.
Where is your proof, RS? Your evidence? A shred of data that this is a "Shameless political move to cover the fact that they got nothing on officer Wilson"?
20
On the contrary. It's diagnosing the environment in which an officer like Wilson was formed. It's only as political as the shooting in the first place.
2