Modern cults and religious sectarian explosions often come about along with technological change. The Old Testament speaks to the "science" of its time, the Book of Mormon speaks to that era, Christian Scientists to theirs. The movements of the later 20th century too, are both facilitated and limited by the technological era in which they arose. The televangelist arrives with the advent of cheap TV frequencies. The contemporary multimedia megachurch arrives with the era of cheap and plentiful multimedia.
Scientology speaks to an era in which giant rocket ships and space wars and visiting aliens were much less the province of pure tabloidism.
There will always be those who believe space aliens built the pyramids and what have you, but the age in which that kind of pulp fiction can actually sustain an ongoing and lucrative community of belief is likely over. If Scientology were smart, it would figure out how to discover a new text by L. Ron, predicting the internet as the next stage of human development.
Live by the tech, die by the tech, as I believe they say there.
Scientology speaks to an era in which giant rocket ships and space wars and visiting aliens were much less the province of pure tabloidism.
There will always be those who believe space aliens built the pyramids and what have you, but the age in which that kind of pulp fiction can actually sustain an ongoing and lucrative community of belief is likely over. If Scientology were smart, it would figure out how to discover a new text by L. Ron, predicting the internet as the next stage of human development.
Live by the tech, die by the tech, as I believe they say there.
9
Any religion or cult that requires intimidation or fear to keep its followers within the fold, whether it is ISIS or Scientology, cannot be a spiritually sustaining organization in the long term? If fear rules your heart, then your mind is not at peace and can never spiritually uplift your soul – only love and compassion can do that. If you don’t feel spiritually free, then your religion or cult, whatever that might be, is not doing its job.
31
Is that why many religions hang the threat of hell so heavily over kids going to Sunday school?
61
I was mystified in 1993 why the IRS did an about face and granted Scientology their tax-exempt status, a decision that in retrospect seems to have been due to a combination of exasperation and exhaustion. Isn't it time we reconsidered that decision?
96
So, their indimidation worked all these years, and a criminal enterprise with all that entails was permitted to flouirish.
24
Though I like almost everyone has not yet seen Gibney's film, I'd be willing to bet it's a real corker. After all, the source material is so rich it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I wish the film great success.
However, there is just so much you can show in a film and to that I end I heartily recommend "Inside Scientology" by Janet Reitman published by Houghton Miflin Harcourt in 2011. This book is not only well written and documented, but a page turner as well. There are situations illuminated here that are so outlandish that you may well think them pure fiction. Unfortunately they are not. Reitman is an established author who has had her work published in the LA Times and Washington Post among other publications. This book's genesis is in a cover story of the same name which she had written for Rolling Stone. Her research had obviously uncovered so much more than could ever be documented in a magazine piece, and is so juicy, that a book length treatment was almost inevitable. Talk about an operation designed to fleece the insecure.
If this subject interests you, do do read this. Run don't walk. You will not be disappointed and you will become remarkably well informed.
PS: You may conclude as I have that this organization having tax exempt status is a travesty.
PPS: For the record I do not know the author nor do I have any pecuniary interest in the book's sale.
However, there is just so much you can show in a film and to that I end I heartily recommend "Inside Scientology" by Janet Reitman published by Houghton Miflin Harcourt in 2011. This book is not only well written and documented, but a page turner as well. There are situations illuminated here that are so outlandish that you may well think them pure fiction. Unfortunately they are not. Reitman is an established author who has had her work published in the LA Times and Washington Post among other publications. This book's genesis is in a cover story of the same name which she had written for Rolling Stone. Her research had obviously uncovered so much more than could ever be documented in a magazine piece, and is so juicy, that a book length treatment was almost inevitable. Talk about an operation designed to fleece the insecure.
If this subject interests you, do do read this. Run don't walk. You will not be disappointed and you will become remarkably well informed.
PS: You may conclude as I have that this organization having tax exempt status is a travesty.
PPS: For the record I do not know the author nor do I have any pecuniary interest in the book's sale.
35
Why does MSNBC carry Scientology advertising? It may be time to inform MSNBC that as long as they continue advertising this cult we who have tuned in will tune out.
49
I was harassed for 16 years solid by Scientologists. My book, Let's sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky, details many of the harassment techniques used by the cult, but Tony Ortega's upcoming book about the harassment of journalist Paulette Cooper (mentioned in the piece) The Unbreakable Miss Lovely gives chapter and verse, as well as being an excellent read. It is astounding that this small - 25000 member - group has such a powerful grip on the media, and, indeed, on the IRS...
56
I hope people watch this documentary about a very mean spirited organization with nefarious intent.
29
I am not religious, but if Jesus did walk the earth as a messiah, I do know that he did not charge $100,000 to heal the sick and the blind. No legitimate religion charges for the benefit of a connection to God. Tithes and donations are very different.
48
Northstar,
how can you be sure? Maybe he just charged $10,000.
how can you be sure? Maybe he just charged $10,000.
6
So the rap against Scientology is that it engages in intimidation and law suits, etc?
Well, Scientology doesn't sound much different than the NRA or Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform, and other similar organizations (particularly PACs), etc.
They are all extortion rackets - each with their own M.O but all with similar effects....and it, unfortunately, seems like it's becoming the new American way.
Well, Scientology doesn't sound much different than the NRA or Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform, and other similar organizations (particularly PACs), etc.
They are all extortion rackets - each with their own M.O but all with similar effects....and it, unfortunately, seems like it's becoming the new American way.
42
You forgot one: the ACLU.
2
Just a few weeks ago I saw an 'infomercial' about Scientology on TV. It talked about all the places in the world they are operating and their 'good' works - with numbers - "millions". "Millions" of people "helped" a 'we are everywhere' message. It was long (for a commercial) and showy. It certainly gave the impression that they are growing at a rapid pace. Is this true? I was surprised at the closing of this mini-documentary to see/hear that it was from the 'church' of Scientology. They usually seem to be so secretive and this ad was so public. Anyone know about this?
10
This is PR, an effort to counter the negative light the Going Clear documentary will shine on Scientology's evil doings.
24
The church is also known for stiffing its vendors. It has yet to pay my wife a $400 fee that was owed to her and her singing group who performed for 3 hours on its campus during Christmas FOUR years ago. Its attitude was, "Sue me." Huge amounts of real estate owned by the scientologists pay zero local taxes and no federal taxes. Needless to say, she never expects to be paid.
112
Not only is Scientology not a real religion, it is not even a real cult.
It's just a tax dodge with a code of Omertà and a lot of lawyers, disguised as a cult.
I hope they lose their tax exemption someday, but then they'll probably just dissolve into a bunch of 501(c)(3)s.
It's just a tax dodge with a code of Omertà and a lot of lawyers, disguised as a cult.
I hope they lose their tax exemption someday, but then they'll probably just dissolve into a bunch of 501(c)(3)s.
34
Some 30 years after my first (and only) contact with Scientology, which lasted a few months, they have followed me and my family around the world, making phone calls and asking for me or about me. To this day (and 5 address changes later) hardly a day passes by when I don't get brochures, DVDs, and letters from Scientology. Last year they finally managed to crack my cell number. Its fairly benign as far as harassment goes, but the scale and longevity of the effort, for someone so insignificant to their business, is kinda scary. They're like the Post Office, CIA, and Pentagon rolled into one...just without the lethality once they find you.
42
Scientology is basically getting Genesis for free, but if you want Exodus you have to pay for it, and the cost goes up incrementally from then on out. And Revelations is so incendiary (or absurd), that you need to be conditioned carefully for its contents. Only the privileged few in the church hierarchy know its details. Careless exposure carries risks to sanity. And as you progress through the bible, you get more superpowers, until you become god-like.
And once you're done with Revelations, and thoroughly cash-depleted, there will be more books periodically, even though you were told Revelations was the last one.
And once you're done with Revelations, and thoroughly cash-depleted, there will be more books periodically, even though you were told Revelations was the last one.
24
There are no "true religions". Spirituality is the pursuit of meaning to life and the need to find a higher power. Religion starts off, in most cases, with a good spiritual intent. But, eventually it reaches a critical mass and hierarchies form and the focus then becomes one of self preservation of the hierarchy. And, how does that get accomplished? By creating rules and regulations and required or demanded contributions and threats of dire consequences if the followers do not obey. Look at the history of religions. They all follow the same path one way or another to some extent. And their biggest flaw, their most telling flaw, is that they do not want people to think and question. Greed becomes part off the hierarchy and thus the "requirements" becomes greater and greater. God, if there is a God, has no need for punishment of us - our very actions create their own punishments and rewards.
When we begin to see the Divine in each other, in our friends and in what we call our enemies, we will truly be able to reach and create a peaceful, creative and rewarding environment. Until we can let go of greed, fear, judgment, and revenge, there will be no peace and wholesomeness to our living. Godliness comes from within - not from the rules and regulations and demands of religion. You have only to look around and realize the fallacies of religions and their claims to be the one, true religion as if no other way is possible.
When we begin to see the Divine in each other, in our friends and in what we call our enemies, we will truly be able to reach and create a peaceful, creative and rewarding environment. Until we can let go of greed, fear, judgment, and revenge, there will be no peace and wholesomeness to our living. Godliness comes from within - not from the rules and regulations and demands of religion. You have only to look around and realize the fallacies of religions and their claims to be the one, true religion as if no other way is possible.
39
Thank you, Gillian, for your thoughtful response to the article on Scientology. I am in the process (three weeks into it) of leaving the Catholic church and your observations are very helpful. Thank you. Mike
18
In other words, you want people to stop being people. That's not going to happen. Utopian ideas lead to bad things.
3
Why does it not take ten seconds to leave the Catholic Church? Whisper to yourself "I no longer have faith that this doctrine is true" and stop going to the services. Aren't you out then?
17
If you're going to take a science-fiction writer as your guru, can't you at least pick a good one? I picked up one of Hubbard's books in a used-book store –I think it was the one Travolta based that movie on – and opened it in several places at random. In every instance it was all but unreadable, especially any dialogue. The man simply did not know how people talk! That and his grotesque enshrinement of celebrity tell me as much about his "religion" as Wright's excellent book did.
My guru pick would be the late Jack Vance, though he would vigorously refuse the invitation.
My guru pick would be the late Jack Vance, though he would vigorously refuse the invitation.
22
I mostly wanted to comment and point out this exact sentence of the article again: (Disclosure: I played a small role in Gibney’s 2005 documentary on Enron.) Enough said.
1
When Nicole Kidman, Katie Holmes and Kelly Preston come out with their knowledge of the truth, Scientology will die a well deserved death.
30
Living so close to the epicenter of Scientology, I follow news of it quite closely - and I'm deeply grateful to have the Tampa Bay Times' thorough reporting on the church and its various issues. I drive nearby the Scientology "campus" in downtown Clearwater regularly, and I'm always struck by how prominent it is in the downtown district. Apparently the church and its efforts to acquire land and expand continuously, as well as its use and/or treatment of city resources and the community, have been fairly contentious issues. They cannot seem to resist a fight on any issue, big or small, right down to the controversy over city tree removal to make way for a giant tent they erected for their anniversary not long ago.
And while downtown Clearwater might very well have struggled to achieve a thriving business district if Scientology didn't own so much of the area, I'm not sure it's been such a great bargain in the long run. Most days the only people I see walking on the streets of downtown are Scientology acolytes in their distinctive khakis and blue shirts, congregating in small groups. Few businesses operate around the campus outside of a Starbucks and a handful of others, despite it being a beautiful historic area with mature trees and plenty of charm (it's not at all like touristy Clearwater Beach, across the causeway). My impression is that the ever-pugnacious Church of Scientology isn't the best neighbor one might wish for.
And while downtown Clearwater might very well have struggled to achieve a thriving business district if Scientology didn't own so much of the area, I'm not sure it's been such a great bargain in the long run. Most days the only people I see walking on the streets of downtown are Scientology acolytes in their distinctive khakis and blue shirts, congregating in small groups. Few businesses operate around the campus outside of a Starbucks and a handful of others, despite it being a beautiful historic area with mature trees and plenty of charm (it's not at all like touristy Clearwater Beach, across the causeway). My impression is that the ever-pugnacious Church of Scientology isn't the best neighbor one might wish for.
81
I believe it was L. Ron Hubbard who said that if someone wanted to make a lot of money they should found a religion. It was David Hannum (not P.T. Barnum)) who informed us that "there is a sucker born every minute." I subscribe wholeheartedly to both of these gentlemen's statements.
I think that Scientology is to religion what ISIS is to Islam. Both are fakes and neither represents either genuiine religion or the teachings in the Qu'ran.
I think that Scientology is to religion what ISIS is to Islam. Both are fakes and neither represents either genuiine religion or the teachings in the Qu'ran.
20
"Genuine religion" huh? I think you've just coined the ultimate oxymoron. Yes, Scientology and ISIS are beastly, but the folks who run the traditional religions (mainstream Christianity and Islam) are also in the carnival business- selling expensive tickets to a show (Heaven) that is never going to be produced.
30
This article omits the superb biography Bare Faced Messiah by a British journalist Russell Miller in the late 80s, who for the crime of documenting LRH's life factually, stripping away the mythos that surrounded him, ran a similar gamut of harassment from the "church".
Although perhaps not a surprising omission given that the "church" successfully opposed its publication in the USA. Land Of The Free, indeed.
Although perhaps not a surprising omission given that the "church" successfully opposed its publication in the USA. Land Of The Free, indeed.
30
I remember in the early 80's , the Scientology people had a lady on a street corner that was inviting people to their office to take a personality test. I was curious, so I accepted. About 5 minutes into the test, I realized I did not want to answer the questions, and walked out. For months afterwards, whenever their people saw me on the street, they would follow me around, and harass me. It was quite intimidating and scary. Only when I threatened to report them to the police did they stop. A few months later, their offices had shut down.
19
I wonder how many religions could survive without their tax exempt status that we all have to pay higher taxes to make up for the shortage? Not only do they enjoy tax exemption, donors also get a tax break on their donations- so in the end, we're all subsidizing all religions with our tax dollars. We should truly have a separation of church and state and not subsidize any church and not offer tax deductions to those who support them. The only exception could be the proportionate use of the donations to true charitable works like feeding the poor- not making the charlatan TV evangelists their billions.
52
There have been many "secret societies" over the years. Secret hand-shakes, members'-only meetings and rituals and, sometimes, a complete lack of available information for those who have not been "initiated" into…whatever it is. Strange, huh?
That's why transparency, and a little sunlight, are generally a good disinfectant for anything that supposedly must remain hidden, "misunderstood" (perhaps?) or secret. Hide it, whatever it really is; however, that may just direct more attention toward your secrets.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
That's why transparency, and a little sunlight, are generally a good disinfectant for anything that supposedly must remain hidden, "misunderstood" (perhaps?) or secret. Hide it, whatever it really is; however, that may just direct more attention toward your secrets.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
8
Do Tom Cruise and John Travolta get revenue streams from the organisation, on account of their leadership status?
3
My guess is that the majority of those who criticise Scientology have little or no experience with it. Easier to judge something you read about than to actually have insight. Yes, there may be abuses, but what line or human endeavor doesn't? My guess is that the majority of practitioners do so of there own free will and get something positive out of it. Why not ask them?
1
"A majority of practitioners do so of their own free will...." Well that's comforting. Just don't tell me you are one of those people who define majority as just over 50%. I mean, please tell me at least 80% are voluntary.
6
Problem is if you leave this cult sorry religion they will find out about it and make your life a living hell. You will be shunned, demeaned and who knows what else.
20
"My guess is that the majority of those who criticise Scientology have little or no experience with it."
True. Then again we those of us without direct experience have also read a lot about their intimidation of opponents and tactics. We alos ask how many legitimate churches, at this point in history, use such tactics?
True. Then again we those of us without direct experience have also read a lot about their intimidation of opponents and tactics. We alos ask how many legitimate churches, at this point in history, use such tactics?
13
It's mind boggling enough that some of our favorite actors are apparently fully overcome by this disbelief system, but to think that they have convinced our Government that this is a "religion," and entitled to tax exemption is just taking things too far. All tax exempt status for all religion should be outlawed immediately. It's a scam on the taxpaying public, and it's repeal is long overdue. Homeland Security apparently needs to the money to boot.
23
So now I'm wondering if my comment got bounced because it went too much over the top (in mocking Scientology, although I thought it was impossible to mock them too much). Or did it get bounced because of the chilling effect? Could be that the moderators are being extorted by felonious thugs from the Elron Hubbard cult, this might bear investigating.
Anyway Scientology is an utter crock, a system designed to separate the gullible from their money and promote Hollywood networking. None of it makes any sense, asides from its profit motive. I hold these things to be obviously true and I think it's reasonable to comment on them.
Anyway Scientology is an utter crock, a system designed to separate the gullible from their money and promote Hollywood networking. None of it makes any sense, asides from its profit motive. I hold these things to be obviously true and I think it's reasonable to comment on them.
26
In all the critics, I have not read one who has read a Scientology book. Ignorance and repeating of former critical remarks reign. Why not look for yourself?
1
I read Dianetics in the 1980s as a teenager and even back then I was astounded at the utter lack of science based proofs.
Hubbard warned that doctors and nurses shouldn't speak extemporaneously because the patient might subconsciously mop up negative vibes.
I thought Dianetics was a crook back then and, as time passes, it has become an even biggwr crock.
Hubbard warned that doctors and nurses shouldn't speak extemporaneously because the patient might subconsciously mop up negative vibes.
I thought Dianetics was a crook back then and, as time passes, it has become an even biggwr crock.
28
I think it's pretty safe to say that many (most?) of the commenters here are an educated, well-read group and have read enough about Scientology - excerpts from "the book", periodicals, magazines, newspapers and online sources - to get a good understanding of Scientology. I think labeling them ignorant dismisses some very valid criticism and concerns about an unethical, abusive "religion".
24
I recently thew out that book I had lying around. Bought it for 50 cents at a used book store several years ago, tried reading it and couldn't didn't make any sense.
15
Thanks for this important column, Joe.
15
On a visit to Seattle in the early 70s I was buttonholed by a young woman & asked if I was interested in taking a "personality test." On holiday & in a languorous mood, I accepted her invitation, ascended a long stairway, was escorted into an interior room with table & chairs & handed a short questionaire. After completion the form was taken from me & a short time later I was led down the hall into well lit a room facing the street with a 30ish man seated at the only desk. He looked up at me, looked down at my completed form & shook his head negatively. I was then asked to sit down & he reviewed the several multiple choice responses I'd made. Strangely, I remember none of the questions or even the gist of them. He directed a stern, concerned look at me & said I needed to become "clear."
I had my own conception of "clear" recalling something from Hemingway about awakening "cold & clear" & his explanation didn't resonate. After rambling on for a few minutes, he then handed me a copy of Dianetics & urged me to read it. I left the building, returned to the street & this was my only brush with Scientology.
I had my own conception of "clear" recalling something from Hemingway about awakening "cold & clear" & his explanation didn't resonate. After rambling on for a few minutes, he then handed me a copy of Dianetics & urged me to read it. I left the building, returned to the street & this was my only brush with Scientology.
16
The EXACT same thing happened to me on the Upper West Side of NYC in the summer of 1980 -- pretty girl invites me to take a "personality test," then leads me to the elevator in an obscure nearby building. Up we went! They "seated me" (locked me) in a room for about an hour and bombarded me with propaganda leaflets about Dianetics. No windows. Spooky and confining. When it finally became time for my "introduction," I said I needed to leave right away for an appointment. After pleading with the staff several times for about 20 minutes, they finally let me leave through the giant padded leather door.
That experience bordered on kidnapping, IMHO. The abuse started even before I joined their money-grubbing cult. Oy vey!
That experience bordered on kidnapping, IMHO. The abuse started even before I joined their money-grubbing cult. Oy vey!
23
In 1951 I complimented L.Ron Hubbard on his success as a writer--he was selling popular stories regularly to Astounding Science Fiction and other top markets. I liked his stories and admired his macho slant. He was also very successful at promoting an obscure and vague philosophy known as Dianetics, which famous editor William Campbell wrote about in Astounding every month. He responded to my compliment with, "Nnah, there's no money in writing. What I want is to have a cult!" At the time I didn't know what a cult was, and it certainly didn't seem cooler than writing great stories.
36
When I was a student in Junior High school, many years ago, I made a project for the school science fair. It was a "lie detector", probably copied from Popular Electronics or a similar magazine. It was a basic Wheatstone Bridge circuit, measuring galvanic skin resistance. It used a couple of (then) silver quarters as electrodes, and worked pretty well.
If I had only known at the time what I could have done by using 2 metal juice cans sans labels as electrodes instead! I could have started a whole religion, and become rich and famous !!
If I had only known at the time what I could have done by using 2 metal juice cans sans labels as electrodes instead! I could have started a whole religion, and become rich and famous !!
25
As a Christian (I thought I’d say that, because ordinarily only atheists declare their beliefs in the first paragraph :) I have no problem with Scientology declaring itself a religion or holding strange beliefs. I believe a man rose from the dead. Many people think that’s a very odd belief. But the intimidation and the isolation of people from their families is a different story. I can’t see why any religion would hire private detectives to track down its apostates, unless it suspects the only reason people remain in the religion is fear.
I’m sure someone will immediately reply “But you are crouching in fear of your Bronze age sky friend!”. That’s OK. I don’t agree with you. But I won’t try and hunt you down for disagreeing with me. That I think is one distinction between a religion and something rather different.
I’m sure someone will immediately reply “But you are crouching in fear of your Bronze age sky friend!”. That’s OK. I don’t agree with you. But I won’t try and hunt you down for disagreeing with me. That I think is one distinction between a religion and something rather different.
112
While I see your point, and do not question that it is true for you, and should in principle be true - I do have to question the notion that a religion doesn't hunt one down for disagreeing with it. History seems to be full of religious persecution...
11
You are clearly a just and tolerant person. Of course, you would not hunt down someone who does not share your beliefs. But your religion did exactly that in the past. Catholics hunted, tortured, and killed Jews and Muslims for hundreds of years. When Protestant Calvinists took over Geneva in the mid-16th century they also hunted, tortured, and killed those who did not share their beliefs. During the 30 Years War Christian sects turned on each other with a vengeance, committing every atrocity imaginable. The history of Christianity is drenched in blood. There is no distinction between a religion and the "something rather different" you condemn.
19
Scientology is a gang that shakes down victims who are jumped in, and sells them a type of drug. It preys on the vulnerable with their own type of drug. If anyone goes after that gang, like, say, a journalist, OG members of the "Church" go for that invader, like turf warfare. American authorities prosecute gang activity. Perhaps the FBI should look into this "Church" and label it a gang that traffics in intimidation and a form of contraband that ruins lives.
14
Most religions practice some form of highly encouraged tithing. They may lack the punch of Scientology but the social pressures to donate are substantial. Were you to leave the religion you often face some level of social ostracism. Generally speaking the more orthodox the greater the level of emphasis on closed communities, social pressure and forced levels of financial support. I see this across the Judeo/Christian spectrum. Scientology is not unique.
11
The big difference being that Judeo/Christian churches don't hunt you down after you leave.
9
For years public libraries would receive unsolicited volumes written by Scientology founder L.Ron Hubbard. These were bought by "church" members from the church who then donated them to libraries. I assume the books cost a pretty penny and had a huge mark-up.
6
I recommend the book by "Messiah or Madman" Ronald DeWolf (L Ron's son)
According to him Scientologists broke into FBI headquarters in DC and stole files. Its been a while but I think he may have also said the did the same to the IRS.
Look up a German movie "Eye of Scientology" Its on You tube.
According to him Scientologists broke into FBI headquarters in DC and stole files. Its been a while but I think he may have also said the did the same to the IRS.
Look up a German movie "Eye of Scientology" Its on You tube.
10
Good book.
1
The Scientology crime syndicate has only some 15,000 surviving customers world wide thanks to the Internet and the exposure of Scientology's massive human rights crimes and even more massive financial frauds.
The syndicate's fake "drug treatment" frauds they call "NarCONon" are being exposed and their Scientology criminal ringleaders are being indicted and sued virtually once a week to the point where there are Grand Jury indictments pending and the violently insane crooks are facing over 40 civil lawsuits for their "NarCONon" crimes here in the United States -- with more lawsuits in Canada and France and other places.
It began in 1994 with the creation of the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup, people started to expose the crimes and human rights abuses that Scientology commits literally every day, to the point where the ringleaders attempted to shut down the newsgroup, prompting something near 20,000 people to flood in to the a.r.s newsgroup to find out what the crooks were trying to hide.
The syndicate's fake "drug treatment" frauds they call "NarCONon" are being exposed and their Scientology criminal ringleaders are being indicted and sued virtually once a week to the point where there are Grand Jury indictments pending and the violently insane crooks are facing over 40 civil lawsuits for their "NarCONon" crimes here in the United States -- with more lawsuits in Canada and France and other places.
It began in 1994 with the creation of the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup, people started to expose the crimes and human rights abuses that Scientology commits literally every day, to the point where the ringleaders attempted to shut down the newsgroup, prompting something near 20,000 people to flood in to the a.r.s newsgroup to find out what the crooks were trying to hide.
21
For those at the top, it's obviously a racket, and should be broken and prosecuted. At the bottom, it's a lowly cult, which deserve no special tax consideration, but should be noticed for civil rights crimes. Many of us have been talking about this despicable mob for years. This is not religion. It's time to investigate and take action.
20
People in authority who are staunch members of organizations that represent or have a history of irrational and lawless teachings and behavior should also be held in intellectual contempt. But to do so would disqualify a large percentage of the authority system. Probably we would get a less human society if we all boycotted those members of cults like "Scientology". I remember being offered a free personality test by a Scientologist in NYC over 30 years ago. As is almost assured I failed the "test" dismally. To be "normal" and "well-adjusted" in the Scientology system is to be a robotic, controlled, warped, lab rat willing to go along with the most outrageous and inhuman guilt manipulation, twisted contrived fake beliefs, deny the rule of law in the world, while being looted of earthly resources. Why do people join initially, are they so lacking in awareness of how their tricks work? Lawrence_Wollersheim founded the "Fact Net" site geared toward exposing Scientology and other cults after winning a long battle against their "church". It recently closed due to endless attacks and hacks. Let's hope that the fraud and evil represented by cults like this will continue to be stamped out in the US. Apparently the authorities in other countries prevailed a long time ago as they are not so manipulated or naive.
14
Anyone remember The People's Temple? The Reverend Jim Jones used the same intimidation tactics. First he made congregants feel special or "chosen." Then he repeatedly questioned their loyalty and played everyone who fell for his sociopathy against each other. By the time they all fled to Guyana it became nothing more than a concentration camp with his ramblings broadcast over the loud speakers 24/7. White night!
Harvey Milk among others championed Jones while he was still in California adding to his credibility.
Beware. And never stop thinking for yourself.
Harvey Milk among others championed Jones while he was still in California adding to his credibility.
Beware. And never stop thinking for yourself.
31
Years ago, a person was on a Back Bay street urged people to come take a personality test. Being a bored, stupid graduate student, I entered a building where I put down a fake name and address and took a test.
Of course, I was "dangerously deficient" in many categories; however, I could help myself if I paid to take Scientology courses. Much to my horror, one of my neighbors in my apartment building scored my test.
Luckily, no one harassed me and I left.
Of course, I was "dangerously deficient" in many categories; however, I could help myself if I paid to take Scientology courses. Much to my horror, one of my neighbors in my apartment building scored my test.
Luckily, no one harassed me and I left.
13
I read Wright's book, Going Clear. I came away with the impression that people who get involved in any way with Scientology, have no idea what they are in for. I never really got why they couldn't just walk away.
This "religion" is straight out of science fiction, which is no surprise, since L. Ron Hubbard was a second rate Sci-Fi writer of pulp books.
I think the internet will greatly contribute to the end of this cult. The availability to find things out instantly hurts organizations like this. Had a similar communications network been around a thousand years ago, the Catholic church would be history by now.
This "religion" is straight out of science fiction, which is no surprise, since L. Ron Hubbard was a second rate Sci-Fi writer of pulp books.
I think the internet will greatly contribute to the end of this cult. The availability to find things out instantly hurts organizations like this. Had a similar communications network been around a thousand years ago, the Catholic church would be history by now.
15
Here's a few examples to demonstrate how they've managed to sidestep criticism, and enjoy robust First Amendment protections.
How can they be a religion if there's no supernatural deity to worship? --But neither does Buddhism.
What about all the notorious instances of slave labor in Scientology?--Many religions enforce a penitent, austere lifestyle.
How can they be a religion if there's no supernatural deity to worship? --But neither does Buddhism.
What about all the notorious instances of slave labor in Scientology?--Many religions enforce a penitent, austere lifestyle.
7
"Why does anyone join such a criminal organization that exploits and mistreats its members so egregiously?" is a question that Joe Nocera should address in depth...please! Single case studies would help but trends and aggregate data would be a place to begin. Has anyone addressed this question systematically, empirically, dispassionately?
7
I have had two contacts with Scientology and both left me thinking it was dangerous aggressive organisation. The first involved an attempt to force me to sit down when I decided to leave Scientology headquarters. A hand was placed on my chest and pushed to stop me from rising. Fortunately some big wig from upstairs arrived and allowed me to leave. On the second occasions, I picked up a hitch hiker during a public transport strike. he announced that he was a Scientologist and when I asked some questions he became aggressive and frankly scary.
very disturbing indeed.
very disturbing indeed.
16
And now they have expanded their recruitment efforts to Africa. Where does this nonsense stop?
13
Tax exemption for religious organizations puts an undue burden on individuals and tax-paying organizations that are not religious. There's are big differences in purpose and function between religious organizations and a charitable ones, and the tax codes should reflect this.
42
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Are all true religions by definition thousands of years old?
Is the door to new religions forever closed?
Are all true religions by definition thousands of years old?
Is the door to new religions forever closed?
4
On average it takes 300 to 600 years before a cult passes into accepted religion status. Took a little over 300 for the Christians. The Fundamentalist Mormons are still considered a cult but they've been around an easy 280 years.In all honesty, every accepted religion began as a cult. Cults are a variant of religious belief that most often goes drastically against the doctrine its in part born from. This is why they can be so dangerous. Think Jonestown.
8
One would hope that a lengthy list of unethical, at least, if not criminal behavior would be enough to revoke the non-profit status. Of course, Scientology would not be the only "church" to lose that status, would it? Hardly!
(not intended to be a weak defense, by the way, merely a short commentary on the abuse of non-profit status.)
(not intended to be a weak defense, by the way, merely a short commentary on the abuse of non-profit status.)
14
Power, wealth, corruption, coercion, secrecy, possession of truth, abuse, thought control -- all the hallmarks of organized religion in its historic assault on human individuality and dignity.
22
The same can be said about "capitalism."
3
Antoine,
and the same for Marxism (as has been practiced in the real world). Religions will be religions, no matter what the name.
and the same for Marxism (as has been practiced in the real world). Religions will be religions, no matter what the name.
2
I'm reading an interesting book called “Inside the Neolithic Mind” by Lewis-Williams and Pearce. Their focus is on the central role of religion on the advent of the neolithic cultures that are the beginnings of “civilization”. Their approach is based on a three-part definition of religion that is generally quite useful. The three parts are experience (neurologically generated illusions of various kinds), belief (a systematic way to interpret the experiences that is meaningful to others who have had them in terms of natural and supernatural elements), and practice (rituals, etc., to elicit the experiences and to transmit the system of belief to others).
Viewed in this general, anthropological manner, Scientology is indeed a religion, based on elements of 20th Century science fiction: an extremely clever hoax by Hubbard, probably as a joke or a kind of challenge or dare in the beginning. That it has been taken seriously by anyone would be funny if people weren't being harmed by it. However, the fact that Scientology (along with other modern experience-belief-practice triads such as Mormonism) are now fairly well established as religions does tell us quite a bit about prior “old time” religions and their geneses, including, most likely, paleolithic and neolithic ones.
Viewed in this general, anthropological manner, Scientology is indeed a religion, based on elements of 20th Century science fiction: an extremely clever hoax by Hubbard, probably as a joke or a kind of challenge or dare in the beginning. That it has been taken seriously by anyone would be funny if people weren't being harmed by it. However, the fact that Scientology (along with other modern experience-belief-practice triads such as Mormonism) are now fairly well established as religions does tell us quite a bit about prior “old time” religions and their geneses, including, most likely, paleolithic and neolithic ones.
31
Freedom of speech laws differ in different kinds of "democracies". Contemporary Germany has prohibited the Church of Scientology and rightly so. Precisely the kind of harassment and intimidation that has been well documented in recent years is the reason why Germany, badly burned by its totalitarian Nazi past, will not tolerate such an intolerant movement and outlaws such institutions. It s a blemish on the USA that this is not so here. It is a scandal that the IRS finally gave in and permits such fraudulent hokus-pokus the Sci-Fi writer Ron Hubbard invented. To label Scientology's blatant business interests conducted with dirty use of the law a "religion" that legitimately concerns itself with the sacred, throws dark cloud over that vast landscape of religious movements that can bee found in the USA.
186
I guess it's possible that Scientology is somehow limited in its activities in Germany, but I know for sure that there is a large center in Munich.
I am no expert at all in Scientology. But I know, yes, they are present in Germany but do not have the status of "religion" such as the Mormons or Jews or Protestants or Buddhists or Muslims. Scientology is not officially recognized in Germany as it is recognized here in the USA. They complain bitterly about this. It is a fraudulent movement and the movement does there not have tax-favored status. You can declare your charitable contributions to German Methodists and deduct it from your income, as in the USA. But that privilege does not Scientology. It is bad "Science", bad "religion" and most especially not a "Church". Nocera describes it well. We need more exposes as the one in the St. Petersburg Times and the NYT as well as Gibney's new documentary film "Going Clear".
10
Thank you Joe for writing this article. I want to share that I have been disconnected from my two adult children for 5 years because of Scientology's Disconnection Policy which breaks up families. Because I spoke out about the abuses Scientology committed to me and my children, Scientology won't let my children see me. This is wrong and why I continue to speak out. Here is my recent interview:
The David Pakman Show "Church of Scientology Won't Let Children See Their Mom" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myxMFs0e3iQ&sns=em
The David Pakman Show "Church of Scientology Won't Let Children See Their Mom" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myxMFs0e3iQ&sns=em
244
It is about time the evil propagated by scientology is exposed.
Thank you Nocera for taking time and dealing the 'coup de grace' for a so- called' religion' that makes a mockery of what a true belief system should be: sacrificial love, and devotion to serve others in need.
Thank you Nocera for taking time and dealing the 'coup de grace' for a so- called' religion' that makes a mockery of what a true belief system should be: sacrificial love, and devotion to serve others in need.
12
This may seem hard-hearted, but I'm tired of reading about the abuses of Scientology and the problems of the people who got roped in or were harassed when they tried to get out. If people want to join Scientology or buy herbal remedies for cancer or pay for hair growth products, it's their right and decision. Yes, there is a difference between giving money to Scientology and giving it to any other religious group, but the difference is in only in degree.
7
Wrong. It's a difference in kind, not only degree. Scientology abuses people who leave the church and people who investigate it. I'm not aware of a herbal-cancer-remedy or hair-growth-product company that does so.
19
The point isn't so much whether people should be allowed to join, but rather that they not be harassed if they subsequently choose to leave. Fine if you want to believe in e-meters and such like. But if you decide to move on, no one should try to ruin your life.
114
and the coercion and intimidation and violence practiced by the 'church' agents and expressed in Scientology policies are ok? some sense of ethics!
12
Tax-exemption for religion in America requires that ALL of us support beliefs that we may or may not agree with, Scientology included.
11
Which is why no religion should be tax-exempt.
33
The content of the beliefs are not at issue. If you've never seen Scientology literature, let's just say it is laughable, like something written by a high-school student of middling talent. But that is not the problem.
The problem is the means employed to insure that the believers remain in the church and surrender their assets to the church.
The problem is the means employed to insure that the believers remain in the church and surrender their assets to the church.
9
I don't understand the necessity of supporting a belief that I don't agree with (eg: the belief that it's good to beat small children daily), or why any religion, particularly a ridiculous con job like Scientology, should be tax exempt.
But heck if they're tax exempt, then I guess I can call myself leader of the Church of Dannology and claim tax-exempt status too. And everyone will have to support me in this because it's a belief.
But heck if they're tax exempt, then I guess I can call myself leader of the Church of Dannology and claim tax-exempt status too. And everyone will have to support me in this because it's a belief.
8
"Religion" is to Scientology as an "invisibility cloak" is to Klingon vessel. And the crew in the vessel is just as nasty.
30
Several years ago I passed by a Scientology anti-psychiatry protest. It had a sign saying that since electroconvulsive therapy had been developed in Italy when Mussolini was in power, it was fascist treatment and should be outlawed.
I stopped and asked if as rockets and jet planes were developed in Germany under the Nazis, these should similarly be considered fascist forms of transportation and should also be outlawed since they apparently viewed that when and where things were developed was how they should be evaluated. The response was it was different but they couldn't explain how.
I stopped and asked if as rockets and jet planes were developed in Germany under the Nazis, these should similarly be considered fascist forms of transportation and should also be outlawed since they apparently viewed that when and where things were developed was how they should be evaluated. The response was it was different but they couldn't explain how.
177
10
The media has failed to note that the anti-vaccine movement that has recently received so much attention as a result of the measles outbreak that it had a predecessor in Scientology's attack on psychiatry. In both cases we had celebrities attacking science based on unsupported opinion and were given widespread coverage despite this.
And it should be noted that it has been widely reported that one of the reasons for the IRS giving Scientology an exemption as a church is that it was by Bill Clinton in return for the positive portrayal of a Clinton-like politicians in the movie "True Colors," played by Scientologist John Travolta,
When Bill, Hillary and Clinton supporters criticize the anti-vaccine movement, they might take a look in the mirror as to who shares at least some of the blame for its success.
And it should be noted that it has been widely reported that one of the reasons for the IRS giving Scientology an exemption as a church is that it was by Bill Clinton in return for the positive portrayal of a Clinton-like politicians in the movie "True Colors," played by Scientologist John Travolta,
When Bill, Hillary and Clinton supporters criticize the anti-vaccine movement, they might take a look in the mirror as to who shares at least some of the blame for its success.
9
Comments about the Clinton's are total nonsense. Search the web and you will find absolutely NO reference to this, anywhere.
12
Scientology acquired a reputation for treating those who wished to leave that organization badly so as to discourage anyone from leaving it back in the 1960's when so many people sought like minded groups of people with who they might find meaning in life. The behavior was that of a strong tribal or cult like organization and it has been accused of this kind of behavior ever since. There are ways of realizing one's potentials which are accomplished by learning about oneself and mastering oneself and ways of finding one's potentials with others where one submerges one's self to become at one with the group. Each path has it's advantages and disadvantages. The latter path means that one becomes totally committed to the group and leaving it disrupts that group and brings with it the consequences reported by those who leave Scientology or criticize it.
4
Worked my way through college in the early 80's cleaning offices. One was for an attorney who had a specialized practice representing disgruntled Scientologists, some having lost their life savings. At one point I was told to not throw the bag of document shreddings out in the dumpster with the rest of their trash, but to please take back to my town and dispose somewhere random. The attorney became suspicious that someone was retrieving the bag and reassembling the documents. Also heard he started carrying a gun for protection.
199
All I can say is I lost a great girlfriend to Scamology. She was mired in it for 2 years before her family finally got her out. She has never been the same.She was the all America girl. The girl next door. Intelligent, pretty, self motiviated and now she cannot hold a job more than a year at the most, three marriages by 40, and ....well the "church" worked on her hard back in the lat e 80s.
I can only wish someday, all religions will be relegated to the dustbins of history where they now belong.
I can only wish someday, all religions will be relegated to the dustbins of history where they now belong.
293
I had a similar experience with a friend, who was an architect. He gave them al his money, then borrowed to give them more. Ended up being a janitor in one of their Los Angeles apartment buildings. He finally left (escaped) after ten years or so. Last I heard he was living in a shabby apartment in Miami doing not much of anything. They prey on the lonely, depressed, and insecure. I hate them.
14
I've read Lawrence Wright's book and it is terrific. It's unbelievable that an organization like Scientology can exist in the US and get away with the intimidation of people that it practices.
20
"Scientology won a 25-year fight against the Internal Revenue Service, which had refused to grant it nonprofit status."
It would be interesting to know how and why this decision was made. The article doesn't give any specifics but more or less implies that the decision was not warranted.
It would be interesting to know how and why this decision was made. The article doesn't give any specifics but more or less implies that the decision was not warranted.
16
There are books that do, and the facts are quite troubling. Try, "Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion," by Janet Reitman.
10
I have read in other articles in the Times that the leaders of Scientology and their lawyers simply walked into the IRS headquarters in Washington one day and were granted a meeting with the Commissioner. Shortly thereafter, the tax exempt status was granted. Fishy indeed.
8
Thanks, D. Is there some short explanation as to why the decision was made?
2
Based on the number of people in these comments using Scientology as a means to attack all churches and religions, I feel I must point out the following, rather obvious (to me) point:
Scientology is not a church. It is a tax dodge set up as a religion to take advantage of the tax exemptions afforded to churches.
Scientology is not a religion. It is a cult that finds weak minded and troubled people and extracts every last penny it can from them.
Scientology is a scam that was founded by a science fiction writer as a means to control people and accrue power within the group, while accruing money - and lots of it - to the leader of the organization.
Scientologists literally believe in aliens and that we, the human race, are somehow the product of an intergalactic war led by an alien named Xenu. "Going clear," in Scientology, means ridding oneself of the alien (i.e. from another planet!) "soul" that occupies your body.
Scientology is Heaven's Gate with lots of lawyers and a better PR department.
When a church isn't a church, it should not benefit from tax exempt status. It's time to tax these charlatans and use the money to pay for the therapy and reintegration into society of their thousands victims. That alone would be more charitable work than Scientology itself has ever done.
Scientology is not a church. It is a tax dodge set up as a religion to take advantage of the tax exemptions afforded to churches.
Scientology is not a religion. It is a cult that finds weak minded and troubled people and extracts every last penny it can from them.
Scientology is a scam that was founded by a science fiction writer as a means to control people and accrue power within the group, while accruing money - and lots of it - to the leader of the organization.
Scientologists literally believe in aliens and that we, the human race, are somehow the product of an intergalactic war led by an alien named Xenu. "Going clear," in Scientology, means ridding oneself of the alien (i.e. from another planet!) "soul" that occupies your body.
Scientology is Heaven's Gate with lots of lawyers and a better PR department.
When a church isn't a church, it should not benefit from tax exempt status. It's time to tax these charlatans and use the money to pay for the therapy and reintegration into society of their thousands victims. That alone would be more charitable work than Scientology itself has ever done.
54
What it is really time for is no tax exemptions to any religion. We should also stop giving tax exemptions to the alter of the NFL.
15
To an agnostic, the first three charges you level against Scientology could be pretty cleanly applied to any other "religion." The fourth isn't even so far off.
8
Seems to me that Scientology differs from "mainstream" religions only by degree of absurdity. Belief in aliens is not any more rediculous than belief in angels. Throwing all your money away, whether for "courses" or tithing or the "free love offerings" of the televangelists or the weekly envelope dropped in the collection plate, is still throwing your money away.
Hard to think of any organized religion that didn't start its life as a cult. I think it was Voltaire who
said that "religion began with the first rogue who met a fool."
Hard to think of any organized religion that didn't start its life as a cult. I think it was Voltaire who
said that "religion began with the first rogue who met a fool."
16
Scientology scares the heck out of me. Let's hope NYT site is hack proofed considering Richard Behar's experience is not unfound
9
allowing yourself to be frightened by them gives them power. Just remember, they are a group of utterly ridiculous people who want to make money and prey on the astounding number of gullible and lonely people in the world. L. Ron Hubbard created this fake religion as a bet with a friend. It's complete nonsense. Don't be scared, be mad or be amused and saddened.
17
Partners who try to leave or succeed in leaving abusive romantic relationships often are the targets of similar behavior. Also happens when trying to stop interacting with someone with narcissistic traits who wants the interaction to continue. But we go on having romantic relationships and interpersonal interactions, we don't become celibate misanthropes, at least most of us don't. So I am all for critiquing the behavioral pattern of a particular religion, but I do get tired of the throwing out of the baby with the bathwater in the assumption that this should be filed under "faith vs. atheism."
14
The behaviour may be superficially similar, but the underlying dynamic of an individual vs an organisation is different.
Scientology is a revealed religion (which includes such secular 'faith' belief systems as Maoism, Leninism, Naziism) in that its goal is power, and that it can't stand up to the critiques of reason and so must resort to brainwashing, dirty tricks, suppression of dissent and similar reprehensible tactics to shore itself up.
BTW I am tired of the 'baby/bathwater' cliché.
Scientology is a revealed religion (which includes such secular 'faith' belief systems as Maoism, Leninism, Naziism) in that its goal is power, and that it can't stand up to the critiques of reason and so must resort to brainwashing, dirty tricks, suppression of dissent and similar reprehensible tactics to shore itself up.
BTW I am tired of the 'baby/bathwater' cliché.
17
Surely RICO or other laws apply to an organization's abuse of our legal system as a tool of personal intimidation.
This story also reminds me of the salutary effect of the internet on (ex-) Mormons and, maybe, Amish during Rumspringe.
This story also reminds me of the salutary effect of the internet on (ex-) Mormons and, maybe, Amish during Rumspringe.
8
Your implication is that Mormons and the Amish are losing adherents, and in fact, the opposite is true. Both religions are thriving, and growing. Most Amish who go on Rumspringe return to their faith after a year or two -- in fact, overwhelmingly, something like 95%.
The truth is, the churches that are failing and losing membership -- hemorrhaging membership -- are the mainstream, liberal Protestant churchs who have embraced social causes and gay marriage. They are circling the drain. The conservative religions -- LDS Mormons, Pentecostals, Orthodox Jews, Amish, Conservative Muslims, etc. -- are absolutely thriving and growing.
The truth is, the churches that are failing and losing membership -- hemorrhaging membership -- are the mainstream, liberal Protestant churchs who have embraced social causes and gay marriage. They are circling the drain. The conservative religions -- LDS Mormons, Pentecostals, Orthodox Jews, Amish, Conservative Muslims, etc. -- are absolutely thriving and growing.
5
I believe that these people return to their original faith, is because they are so screwed up that they cannot adapt or fit in a freethinking society. Freedom requires work submission doesn't.
7
How about some data? The Pew Forum survey documents that the biggest change among Americans has been the growth in "None of the above", now at 16%. Protestants overall have slipped to 51%. Evangelicals innovated rapidly in this generation to become more emotional denominations, in order to attract as many folks as they lose. While cerebral mainline Protestants (Episcopal, etc) have not innovated so much, tiny liberal groups such as Unitarians have actually gained members.
And you know what? We can all co-exist in a country that promises liberty for all--if you take it seriously.
Remember, Jesus embraced social causes like caring for the poor of all kinds, and hung out with lepers and prostitutes. Maybe you can manage to see "gays" in there in your world view.
And you know what? We can all co-exist in a country that promises liberty for all--if you take it seriously.
Remember, Jesus embraced social causes like caring for the poor of all kinds, and hung out with lepers and prostitutes. Maybe you can manage to see "gays" in there in your world view.
4
" You want to make a million dollars? Start a religion." a well-known quote attributed to L.Ron Hubbard
"You want to lose a million dollars, bash that 'religion'." A quote that could be attributed to Richard Behar
"You want to lose a million dollars, bash that 'religion'." A quote that could be attributed to Richard Behar
20
It does not appear that Scientologists have yet begun beheading or executing those who've left their "faith."
5
No, they simply harass, intimidate, fiscally drain and emotionally compromise their victims. I suspect part of the reason the IRS finally caved was because of the cost of trying to deal with the perpetual lawsuit machine of Scientology. To them, it's probably far more satisfying to allow their victims to live and suffer forever than to kill them.
7
With social media and the Internet, it's getting harder and harder to start a modern-day "religion." How sad for the cultists and con-artists.
28
The most baffling aspect of Scientology is that they will not come out and say, publicly, what they believe. To find out, you get roped in by having to pay (and, I'd guess, being brought down as a person with only one path to "betterment"). This sounds more like a sketchy business model than a faith.
36
I don't understand why & how Scientology is considered to be a religion? it's clearly not and should be treated as thievery dangerous cult that it is. Is it a racket? Yes. Racket: an illegal or dishonest scheme for obtaining money: a protection racket.
26
According to Lawrence Wright's book, Scientology started out as a "religion" in the eyes of the IRS; then they changed their minds, and revoked the tax exemption; then Scientology made such a fuss with their powerful friends (including lawyers) that the IRS eventually threw in the sponge, largely (if I remember it right) because they were spending more money than they could afford fighting Scientology's legal claims. So now, once more, it is a "religion" in the eyes of the US government (and, I think, in the eyes of some foreign governments too).
5
Who gets to decide what a religion is?
Scientology has all the attributes of a religion - a scripture (conveniently supernatural and non-falsifiable), a founder, leaders, a creed, rituals, the whole schmear.[*] That it rakes in the bucks, and/or that it bullies those who dissent or whom it considers a challenge or threat to its teachings, is hardly a disqualifier. The same charges could be laid against all 'mainstream' religions.
[*] When I typed the Yiddish word 'schmear', the NYT autocorrect attempted to change it to 'schemer'. Serendipitous editorialising there?
Scientology has all the attributes of a religion - a scripture (conveniently supernatural and non-falsifiable), a founder, leaders, a creed, rituals, the whole schmear.[*] That it rakes in the bucks, and/or that it bullies those who dissent or whom it considers a challenge or threat to its teachings, is hardly a disqualifier. The same charges could be laid against all 'mainstream' religions.
[*] When I typed the Yiddish word 'schmear', the NYT autocorrect attempted to change it to 'schemer'. Serendipitous editorialising there?
3
I have to disagree. As a reform Jew I do not see the last part of your equation at all. No one is bullied here and though we are asked to pay, it is for the organization itself and you can see where the money goes. If you're unhappy you can leave any time and maybe start your own temple.
3
Alex Gibney's dismissal of scientology's ability to wreck havoc needs clarification. His comment "it's safe" is true for journalists and news agencies. However, individual critics who are not part of a corporation should still beware. There is venom left
14
Scientology's vindictiveness is legendary. I remember that they once put a rattle snake in the mail box of a person who'd left them. That gives "shunning" a whole perspective.
20
As much as I dislike Scientology... Actually, the rattlesnake was put in Paul Morantz' mailbox by Synanon members, not Scientologists. He's a lawyer with a track record fighting cults (Scientology among them).
5
Thanks for the correction.
3
Scientology is not benign. Scientologists are intimidating. A cult is still a cult, as time goes by.
28
As I reread James Michener's book, Chesapeake, last summer, I was reminded at just how dangerous it can be in the US when a religion gains hold and can persecute people who don't believe the same. That includes Roman Catholics and Protestants of all stripes.
26
Scientology intimidates? Like the Puritans with accusations of witchcraft? Or the plain church punishment of shunning? Or excommunication by the Vatican? Or beheading by ISIL? Or the humiliations, cruelties and suffering visited on the critics of other faiths by their notion of propriety? Scientology is only one of a great many religions that intimidates.
30
Chump,
You forgot to include the Mormon practice of ostracizing expelled members.
You forgot to include the Mormon practice of ostracizing expelled members.
11
Intimidation is just human and animal behavior. It is not particular to religion. It didn't magically disappear in eastern Europe or Asia during the accent of atheistic communism.
4
Ostracizing expelled members is not a Mormon practice. Church leaders are on record condemning any such actions on the part of members.
2
This makes me feel very good about not using my real name online. There are some crazies out there!
14
For those who have not read Wright's book, do so. Scientology is simply a scam, enforced by those who profit most from it. If it is a church, then so is North Korea.
76
The reason the "church" will never turn the other cheek is because first of all, it is not a church. It's a con artist's scam, with the worshipped deity being tax free cash. The thuggish behavior by it's leaders is easily understood within that context...like the behavior of a gangster whose territory is being encroached.
350
Nothing but a strange cult started by an ordinary delusional man, just like Jim Jones. Only difference is that this guy wrote a book on his delusions.
10
Yes, as a teenager I remember reading L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction, and a piece he wrote saying that if you really wanted to make money, you should found a religion. Which he did. And became immensely wealthy. Happy? Don't know.
2
Err. How many people have been killed by scientology?. It's laughable to see this moral equivalence drawn with Islamic terrorism. As douglas murray says, journalists (leftist) have made a living charging at empty hornets nests. The have no clue how to attack a live one. So they do not say it's name.
1
Err....there was no moral equivalence made with Islamic terrorism. And most of the hornets nets have been buzzing with insects.
21
The only person asserting anything about a "moral equivalence" between Scientology and Islamic terrorists is you.
As for how many people have been killed by Scientology, I don't view that as the right question. A better question might be, "How many people have had their lives damaged irreparably, or even lost them, because of factors related to their association with Scientology?" And the answer would be hard to find, given how complicated these things are, but it certainly wouldn't be zero. Think back on, for example, the woman who died in the care of Scientologists at their HQ here in Florida - Lisa, I believe? How many others have given away all their money to the church, only to end up destitute and disillusioned as the church keeps milking them for more? How many families have been torn apart by Scientology's insistence on shunning "undesirables," including an adherent's own parents, or spouse, or children?
Scientology has done plenty of harm, as have virtually all religions at one point or another.
And if you're still hung up on the false equivalence you mentioned, remember: It may not be comprised of jihadists fomenting sectarian wars, but it certainly doesn't have clean hands. Not being as terrible as terrorists doesn't mean that it is blameless.
As for how many people have been killed by Scientology, I don't view that as the right question. A better question might be, "How many people have had their lives damaged irreparably, or even lost them, because of factors related to their association with Scientology?" And the answer would be hard to find, given how complicated these things are, but it certainly wouldn't be zero. Think back on, for example, the woman who died in the care of Scientologists at their HQ here in Florida - Lisa, I believe? How many others have given away all their money to the church, only to end up destitute and disillusioned as the church keeps milking them for more? How many families have been torn apart by Scientology's insistence on shunning "undesirables," including an adherent's own parents, or spouse, or children?
Scientology has done plenty of harm, as have virtually all religions at one point or another.
And if you're still hung up on the false equivalence you mentioned, remember: It may not be comprised of jihadists fomenting sectarian wars, but it certainly doesn't have clean hands. Not being as terrible as terrorists doesn't mean that it is blameless.
9
It's always surprising what people will choose to believe with absolute,
glossy-eyed certainty. Even when those beliefs are brought to life by con men and science fiction writers (the shamans of our age). There is one thing these religious founding fathers have figured out and that is how
to become very, very wealthy by selling nothing but air.
glossy-eyed certainty. Even when those beliefs are brought to life by con men and science fiction writers (the shamans of our age). There is one thing these religious founding fathers have figured out and that is how
to become very, very wealthy by selling nothing but air.
32
One of the things that separates Scientology from other "religions" is that one MUST pay a specified amount of money to participate. Once you are roped in to the belief system, you cannot be a member in good standing without paying a specified fee on a regular basis. This is not the case with other religions.
221
The Mormon church requires tithing as do many evangelical churchs too. Nothing new with religious organizations.
10
Not totally true. Many religions (particularly orthodox ones) have "tithing" requirements, where you MUST pay 10% (or a different percent) annually or be dropped from the active roles. These amounts are strongly supported and demanded by each church. In addition, some churches have "indulgences" which are payments to be made to the church which gives a member absolution from an activity which the church calls a sin and would normally preclude the member from being admitted to heaven after death. Sinners must pay to go to heaven. Also, most churches have a "suggested" donation amount, either a percent of income or a specified amount, which they encourage you to play each year to remain a member in good standing. Plus, EVERY taxpayer pays for the exempted property taxes on every church and religious school property in their municipalities and states -- adding billions to the annual tax debt, in addition to providing full services, fire protection, police, etc. Religion ain't cheap when you add it all up.
17
It is believed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly referred to as the Mormon Church, essentially requires members to tithe ten percent of their income.
8
30 years ago I had a client in South Florida and one of the people with whom I had to work on a consulting basis practiced Scientology. He was forever hounding me to take it up, too, but I didn't. I already had a church. The longer he tried to convince me that I should join and try to become 'clear' the angrier he got that I wasn't interested. I haven't seen him in years and don't have a clue where he is or what he's doing. Fine by me.
17
The IRS correctly reversed itself. Scientology is indeed a religion, with all its earmarks.
That is not a statement in praise of Scientology.
That is not a statement in praise of Scientology.
26
In the 1960s a coworker got me to go to a Scientology meeting. He and his wife became members. I went several times. Even got handed the tin cans to get clear...but I had had 17 years of catholic education and I,easily recognized the manipulation of fear used to try to draw me into the group. I had survived all those years of the priests and nuns using guilt and fear. The scientologists were new at it. Rather like the wizard of oz being spotted behind the curtain. They even sent a follower to my house to try and get me to come back. For years as I moved from place to place I still received their mailings. Rather like a virus looking for a host to infect.
92
Anyone who is the least bit familiar with Scientology would know that it is not a religion. It is a business organized along the lines of a cult masquerading as a religion. Religions do not lock people up, physically abuse them, pressure them to give so much money to the "church" that they end up bankrupt and impoverished, force them to cut off all contact with family members who leave Scientology, etc. 10 minutes of Internet research will show that this organization is a scary, horrifying one led by a truly evil man, David Miscavige. It has nothing to do with religion.
85
When Germany ruled that it wasn't religion, it made the despicable claim that its members were being treated as Jews were under the Nazis. Enough said.
4
"Religions do not lock people up, abuse them ..."
Um, what? Of course they do.
Um, what? Of course they do.
7
Many comments below call for revoking the tax exemption of churches. That, of course, will never happen. A better solution would be to revoke the privilege, that only churches have, to not file an annual information return (form 990). A form 990 discloses income and expenses, the salaries of key insiders, and how much actual charity is delivered. Sector-wide disclosure would have the beneficial effect of putting very church, regardless of how mainstream or oddball, on the same footing. We would know how much money is received and how it is spent. This would expose the frauds and elevate the legitimate, something that is very much needed.
101
Watch the documentary on HBO. Read the book by Lawrence Wright. Then comment. I haven't seen the movie, but did read the book, and I can say that a lot of the commenters below are off-topic. As an atheist I do have many issues with religious people dictating policy, but Scientology operates on a completely different and much more frightening level. The disappearance of her son's girlfriend reported by Patty Ann B. below is only the tip of the iceberg.
43
It's dangerous and deceptive to lump the actions Scientology into a broad bucket of nonsense pushed in the name of religion. Yes, all religions can and have pushed crazy theories, no one is debating this. However that's no reason to be dismissive of the specific actions taken by the members of this group. The organization has clearly acted with malice and deceit in order to forward its goals, all the while disingenuously pushing it self as a religion. Any other organization, sans religious classification, would have been broken up and prosecuted.
"But what about x group, or y group?!" - Yes, there are plenty of other groups that fit this description. They are distinct in their own right. This Scientology group is facing unprecedented exposure - Now is the time for this investigation.
"But what about x group, or y group?!" - Yes, there are plenty of other groups that fit this description. They are distinct in their own right. This Scientology group is facing unprecedented exposure - Now is the time for this investigation.
34
No Judeo Christian religion I know of turns the other cheek when anyone disagrees with its tenets. We could argue that all religions rely on science fiction to some degree or another. They certainly require believers to suspend their understanding of reality. Did Moses part the Red Sea? Did Jesus turn water into wine? Did Lazarus truly rise from the dead? How did Mary remain a virgin while conceiving and carrying Jesus? Then we get to the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. Jews and Muslims were slaughtered during the Crusades. Jews, converted Jews, and anyone who was suspect in the eyes of the Church were tortured and burned to death during the Spanish Inquisition. The Church didn't want to acknowledge Galileo's confirmation that the Earth orbited the Sun. He was threatened accordingly.
Scientology is merely taking its place alongside the "honorable" religious tradition of denying reality, threatening those who might expose its lies and trying to make them look like troublemakers. If Mr. Nocera could explain how Scientology's actions differ from those of any other religion he might have a case. As of now their actions are no different than that of the Mormons, Jews, Christians, or Muslims when they feel threatened by outsiders.
Scientology is merely taking its place alongside the "honorable" religious tradition of denying reality, threatening those who might expose its lies and trying to make them look like troublemakers. If Mr. Nocera could explain how Scientology's actions differ from those of any other religion he might have a case. As of now their actions are no different than that of the Mormons, Jews, Christians, or Muslims when they feel threatened by outsiders.
26
Perhaps in their beliefs, but not in the way they treat others. If you've ever been exposed to them, you'd see the huge difference.
2
That's like saying, "you can't accuse me of stealing because everyone steals!". Yes, you can! You can accuse me, and you can separately accuse the other people who steal as well! In other words, "Scientology, bad! Bad!! Many other religions, bad! Bad!!" :-)
4
The case is not Joe Nocera's, but Alex Gibney’s. Read the book.
3
Scientology is a harshly repressive cult which prospers only by secrecy, intimidation, and extraction of money from the gullible.
79
What's in it for Cruise and Travolta? They cannot possibly be that dumb, and presumably don't need the money.
2
Their egos are stroked in inconceivable ways, like royalty.
11
Interesting question. Perhaps they enjoy the admiration and worship of more lowly scientologists, they like being celebrities. Or perhaps it's difficult to publicly admit what a fool you were and have been for so many years. Maybe it is more desirable to deny reality than face humiliation that would come with change.
3
Church membership fees, albeit voluntary collected, are not charitable gifts anymore than country club fees are. They pay for the services the church provides. Charitable gifts are those that assist people other than the donors. And of course there is the issue of church and state. Those of us who are non-religious or unaffiliated shouldn't be forced to subsidize the religious services of those who are. Current tax law requires that if you receive a service for your charitable gift--say a dinner invitation--your deduction is limited only to the amount of the gift less the cost of the service, even if you don't attend the dinner. The same logic should apply to church donations and the churches should be required to show how the charitable share of donations was spent as is required of any charity.
36
Does Scientology causes its members to lose all sense of propriety? Witness Travolta's uninvited kiss'n'fondle of Scarlett Johansson at Sunday's Oscars. John, did she need to scream, "No!" in front of millions of viewers? Apparently yes.
43
In a seminal Supreme Court case, McCullough v. Maryland, Chief Justice John Marshall opined for a unanimous court that the power to tax contains the power to destroy. For this reason, Reverend Campbell treads upon dangerous ground in his proposal to allow taxation of churches. There are already far too many tax "preferences" designed by rent-seekers to hobble competitors or politically dis favored groups.
5
What's dangerous is forcing me to subsidize Scientology and all other churches by having to pay higher taxes to offset the giveaway to churches. Requiring churches to pay the same taxes as other taxpayers only ends the public subsidy. If a church can't afford it, it can go the same way as other taxpayers who cannot or will not pay. Pony up, members!
This "destruction" is inherent in any system of taxation. We all face it. Giving churches a free pass at my expense is unacceptable.
This "destruction" is inherent in any system of taxation. We all face it. Giving churches a free pass at my expense is unacceptable.
134
There are so many tax "preferences" already that benefit the uberrich, the enormous corporations, those who can afford an army of accountants, and churches. The time for them to pay taxes is long, long overdue. After all, their "congregants" use up numerous public services every time they go to church.
Time for the NFL and NASCAR and all the other so-called "non-profits" to pony up as well. As others have posted here, why do just some Americans have to pay for the psychobabble beliefs of others? Who is paying for mine? Where is my free ride?
Time for the NFL and NASCAR and all the other so-called "non-profits" to pony up as well. As others have posted here, why do just some Americans have to pay for the psychobabble beliefs of others? Who is paying for mine? Where is my free ride?
12
"For this reason, Reverend Campbell treads upon dangerous ground in his proposal to allow taxation of churches."
I'm still not seeing the down side.
I'm still not seeing the down side.
3
I am amazed that anyone would follow the teachings of a 'church' cooked up by a science fiction writer. Even a brief conversation with an adherent, leads to a stream of illogic overflowing with nonsense. Why is it that we have no standard of credibility for such things, as if belief in something gives it validity?
The major contribution of religious institutions is the creation of community. That's probably what most people are looking for. But when elements of fantasy are woven in we depart from a healthy confluence into an increasingly us vs. them stance - we're all OK, it's the outside world that has it wrong. Or in it's extreme, it's the unbelievers who must be eliminated; as in ISIS or Boko Haram or back a few hundred years - the Inquisition.
From what I have seen, religion has checkered history. Whatever good it may do is often outweighed by the damage it inflicts. The fight over whose god in the main divine, is as foolish as the discussion of how many angels can stand of the head of a pin. If we're ever going to survive, we had better find a faith system that helps us preserve the planet or it will all equal zero.
The major contribution of religious institutions is the creation of community. That's probably what most people are looking for. But when elements of fantasy are woven in we depart from a healthy confluence into an increasingly us vs. them stance - we're all OK, it's the outside world that has it wrong. Or in it's extreme, it's the unbelievers who must be eliminated; as in ISIS or Boko Haram or back a few hundred years - the Inquisition.
From what I have seen, religion has checkered history. Whatever good it may do is often outweighed by the damage it inflicts. The fight over whose god in the main divine, is as foolish as the discussion of how many angels can stand of the head of a pin. If we're ever going to survive, we had better find a faith system that helps us preserve the planet or it will all equal zero.
108
Contribute to Franklin Graham, a tax deductable hate machine Even his charity, Samaritan's Purse, has only helps their own believers. The rest is baloney.
8
"Lorem IpsumDFW, TX
Start by respecting religious people, something that atheist fundamentalists can't or won't do."
I'm pretty sure the last line of defense for any religion are the atheists. We don't care what anyone believes. Rather the "true religions" wage war against each other.
Not that this point has anything to do with SciTi which is neither a religion or a belief system.
Start by respecting religious people, something that atheist fundamentalists can't or won't do."
I'm pretty sure the last line of defense for any religion are the atheists. We don't care what anyone believes. Rather the "true religions" wage war against each other.
Not that this point has anything to do with SciTi which is neither a religion or a belief system.
18
So, Joe knew all along it was a dangerous criminal conspiracy and only decided to take it on when the coast was clear?
8
I love the little 'shout-out' to religious cults Woody Allen included in one of the three books republished as THE INSANITY DEFENSE:
"I noticed that Reverend [Chow Bok] Ding thrived on robotlike fealty and any diminution of divine fervor met with raised eyebrows. When I mentioned that it seemed to me that the Reverend's followers were being systematically turned into mindless zombies led by a fraudulent megalomaniac, it was taken as criticism...."
"I noticed that Reverend [Chow Bok] Ding thrived on robotlike fealty and any diminution of divine fervor met with raised eyebrows. When I mentioned that it seemed to me that the Reverend's followers were being systematically turned into mindless zombies led by a fraudulent megalomaniac, it was taken as criticism...."
18
It's not for nothing that Scientology and ideology both end in "ology."
15
Good! Next up—Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. They all make about as much sense as Scientology.
56
Religion is fine thing as long as you don't take it too seriously
28
It is worth remembering all religions are formed from 'I don't know why this event happened outside the normal probabilities therefore it must be god' I have faith = I pretend to know things I do not know.
Once you get past the scam the real question is why must society subsidize these scams?
Once you get past the scam the real question is why must society subsidize these scams?
49
Mr. Nocera,
I notice that among all of the times columnists you seem to rack up the most "disclosures". Your ties, your wife's ties. Disconcerting. Especially when you say things like how what you are writing about is actually a case being worked on by her firm...but not by her directly. You therefore claim she doesn't benefit. Isn't she a partner? If so then she would clearly benefit financially.
Might I suggest spending a couple of years righting about stuff you don't have a blatant conflict of interest in.
I notice that among all of the times columnists you seem to rack up the most "disclosures". Your ties, your wife's ties. Disconcerting. Especially when you say things like how what you are writing about is actually a case being worked on by her firm...but not by her directly. You therefore claim she doesn't benefit. Isn't she a partner? If so then she would clearly benefit financially.
Might I suggest spending a couple of years righting about stuff you don't have a blatant conflict of interest in.
3
So I have to listen to "Lorum Ipsum" constantly bash atheists, yet I post several replies to the contrary, mildly worded, and NY Times deletes ALL of them. Thanks. I'll never read or post here again.
19
Have to agree. While I agree that there should be some standards, I have found myself stupefied by their moderation policies at times as well.
5
Please don't quit us Jon Jon. Lorum is great for a few chuckles and/or shakes of one's head. Enough will great through the censors to elucidate us all.
A retired Episcopal priest, I have supported the idea of denying tax-exempt status to all churches, and have done so for years. At the very least, they should pay property taxes (imagine trying to get to a (church/mosque/synagogue/etc.) if there were no roads, no infrastructure!
I would extend tax deductions to those who contributed.
I would off-set taxes on the religious establishment based on the actuual money they spent on community services (feeding the hungry, job-training, non-religious education, etc.).
These common sense changes would a) encourage giving, b) encourage more effective community-wide involvment, c) build up the community tax-base and d) generally make the religious communities more responsible to the communities they "serve". It would also mean that a lot of ineffective, self-serving and insulated groups (or parishes, congregations, whatever) would close.
Good.
I would extend tax deductions to those who contributed.
I would off-set taxes on the religious establishment based on the actuual money they spent on community services (feeding the hungry, job-training, non-religious education, etc.).
These common sense changes would a) encourage giving, b) encourage more effective community-wide involvment, c) build up the community tax-base and d) generally make the religious communities more responsible to the communities they "serve". It would also mean that a lot of ineffective, self-serving and insulated groups (or parishes, congregations, whatever) would close.
Good.
511
About 15 years ago, a major corporation sold their corporate campus in the suburbs to an evangelical mega church. Acres and acres of property pulled off the property tax rolls. I'm not a member, but neighbors are. They extol the amazing physical fitness center, volleyball and squash courts, the "dormitories" for retreats (indoctrinations?), the ballroom for wedding receptions, etc. Whom does this property benefit exactly? And why should it be tax-exempt?
When were churches given tax-exempt status, btw? How did that law ever get passed given the separation of church and state in our constitution?
When were churches given tax-exempt status, btw? How did that law ever get passed given the separation of church and state in our constitution?
45
Brilliant ideas!
4
One question about religion is whether it is a benign force in the world. In the lives of individuals, I have no doubt that belief provides comfort and a structure to the mind. Socially and politically, I am not so certain of the net impact.
In America, as the Scientology/IRS case shows, almost anyone can create a belief system and call it a religion. All religions fortify themselves in one degree or another against opposition and intrusion from the outside, but where is the limit? When does this protective effort become a social threat and, when it becomes a threat, how can it be answered? Our system based on tolerance leaves us vulnerable. not just to quacks but to real dangers.
Scientology obviously had, or has, an aggressive policy of attacking any critics at the moment they opened their mouths or sat down to a computer to write. It is not a benign force and has demonstrated openly that, if it had the power, it would use it to attack the society around it. This is much more than just answering critics with words and ideas. We have to tolerate them, but they don't have to tolerate us.
http://terryreport.com
In America, as the Scientology/IRS case shows, almost anyone can create a belief system and call it a religion. All religions fortify themselves in one degree or another against opposition and intrusion from the outside, but where is the limit? When does this protective effort become a social threat and, when it becomes a threat, how can it be answered? Our system based on tolerance leaves us vulnerable. not just to quacks but to real dangers.
Scientology obviously had, or has, an aggressive policy of attacking any critics at the moment they opened their mouths or sat down to a computer to write. It is not a benign force and has demonstrated openly that, if it had the power, it would use it to attack the society around it. This is much more than just answering critics with words and ideas. We have to tolerate them, but they don't have to tolerate us.
http://terryreport.com
39
Scientology has nothing to do with religion; it's a cash machine designed to entrap the gullible and not-so-bright members of our society.
11
Wow! Am I out of touch. I gotta get out more. I didn't realize these clowns were still around. I read "Dianetics" back in '81 or '82 and was struck by how juvenile the thinking was. I kept waiting for pearls of wisdom that never came. Profound waste of time, paper, and ink.
I know there was a movie, but I can almost see a "Portlandia" style sit-com coming. Just think of the possibilities.
I know there was a movie, but I can almost see a "Portlandia" style sit-com coming. Just think of the possibilities.
49
Compared to Frank Herbert, Issac Asimov, Robert Henlein and Ray Bradbury L. Ron Hubbard WAS a hack. His only genius seems to be in imagining his Dianetics as a religion. He lived very well afterwards mostly on his boat and avoiding US taxes.
18
Scientology is a bogus sect that requires the suspension of rational thought, and the strong belief in magic. Intimidation seems to be part of their project, now uncovered and challenged. However, before we settle with the absurdity of scientology issues, any religion, with its 'necessary' dogma, uses or has used intimidation in the past, to retain or gain adherents. No exceptions really.
30
Now let's be fair. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has never intimidated anyone.
18
And when will the IRS find the courage to revoke the tax exempt status of this cult? Or is the US government in the business of supporting cults?
110
about the same time it finds the courage to revoke the tax exempt status of the NFL.
14
Of course it does. One of the major parties fits the definition of a cult don't cha know.
6
Thanks for this article, Joe.
I'm not sure how scientology can profess to be a 'church' when so many of its tactics involve intimidation and paybacks. Church implies religion, which from what I know about this "mind-science" is not your typical "Supreme being-savior-conversion-faith" structure.
Perhaps a better word is cabal, cult, or even mafia. A good start would be to stop referring to scientology as a church. A lot can be conveyed by the use of the right words.
I'm not sure how scientology can profess to be a 'church' when so many of its tactics involve intimidation and paybacks. Church implies religion, which from what I know about this "mind-science" is not your typical "Supreme being-savior-conversion-faith" structure.
Perhaps a better word is cabal, cult, or even mafia. A good start would be to stop referring to scientology as a church. A lot can be conveyed by the use of the right words.
370
The "supreme being" is the aliens who will come back to "save" the people being prepared for their arrival with E Meters and declared "Cleared". "The Wheel In The Sky Keeps on Turning" a popular rock song expresses the yearnings of its adherents. They should hope the Aliens don't have a book named, "To Serve Man".
8
Valid comparisons, but the mafia is more honest about its agenda.
2
And "mainsteam" religions don't intimidate people through guilt, and don't demand "offerings" from their victims?? (I've seen dirt-poor people in Brazil crawling blocks on their hands and knees to offer their pittance to the collection boxes at lavish cathedrals.)
Scientology is merely one facet of the global scourge that is organized religion, don't kid yourself.
Scientology is merely one facet of the global scourge that is organized religion, don't kid yourself.
7
My son dated a Scientology girl in high school. They were becoming very close and we found they had spent some time in our homes alone. Her mother was upset as was I. They were too young and though I knew my son knew how to protect against pregnancy and disease both of us mothers had prohibited them from being alone in the houses. I was upset because my son was 18 and could be accused of rape because she was only 16 and he was too young to take care of a wife and child.. Her mother was upset because she was only 16 and accidents can happen. Both of us worried because they were so young and not prepared for the possible consequences. We were both upset and worried for good reason. What happened next though was pretty extreme and odd. One day the girl vanished. We found out she had been whisked away to a Scientology "retreat" in California. Her phone went dead and he could not call her. We would not see her again for 5 years.
Now they are friends of sorts. She is seeing a psychologist which is against Scientology teaching. This makes me kind of wonder if they are finally going the way of all religions/cults. They could be learning that their heavy handedness is turning people away from them and the people in Scientology may be becoming more mainstream. It is a progression every religion and cult seems to make. We tend to judge them by their hierarchy, we should look to their rank and file.
Now they are friends of sorts. She is seeing a psychologist which is against Scientology teaching. This makes me kind of wonder if they are finally going the way of all religions/cults. They could be learning that their heavy handedness is turning people away from them and the people in Scientology may be becoming more mainstream. It is a progression every religion and cult seems to make. We tend to judge them by their hierarchy, we should look to their rank and file.
27
People are leaving for many reasons. The heavy handedness and costs as well as the special status given celebrities. The actress who played the wife in "King Of Queens" recently left and has been very vocal in her criticisms. She was raised in it and members of her family are still in it.
18
I believe your last sentence is incorrect. It was highly reported at the time of her defection that her entire family left with her.
2
Dear Mr. Nocera,
I fear "Scientology" as much as any other religion; not at all.
My question is why you're picking on "Scientology"? So it's the center of a documentary and, in the past, it has harassed anyone investigating it. Perhaps one should try investigating the inner workings of the Mormons (In a town near myself, they're building a Mormon Temple, not just a church. One has to be a "Mormon" to gain access, like the one in Salt Lake City. Maybe finding out "what gives" would elicit a similar, scientology-like response from those folks.). As for "stone walling' and harassing, the Catholic Church, with it's apparent disregard for child abuse and subsequent "cover ups", can't be beat. How many years did that go on even while being "investigated"?
Scientology doesn't impress me as much of a problem, except for journalists investigating it, as, let's say, DAESH, a quasi-religious bunch who REALLY doesn't like journalists. They both base their greed, power and corruption on some format of "divine being", a sure fire excuse for just about any excesses in "the name of god".
On the other hand, we could all read Ayn Rand and become godless ubermenschen, blowing up our own creations and trampling upon the poor; sort of like the GOP/TP/KOCH AFFILIATE plan.
I'm sure the GOP/TP/K.A.'s "altar" is certainly made of gold and the worship of "campaign dollars" a daily ritual.
As the movie title says, "The Gods Must Be Crazy"; certainly as crazy as their worshippers.
I fear "Scientology" as much as any other religion; not at all.
My question is why you're picking on "Scientology"? So it's the center of a documentary and, in the past, it has harassed anyone investigating it. Perhaps one should try investigating the inner workings of the Mormons (In a town near myself, they're building a Mormon Temple, not just a church. One has to be a "Mormon" to gain access, like the one in Salt Lake City. Maybe finding out "what gives" would elicit a similar, scientology-like response from those folks.). As for "stone walling' and harassing, the Catholic Church, with it's apparent disregard for child abuse and subsequent "cover ups", can't be beat. How many years did that go on even while being "investigated"?
Scientology doesn't impress me as much of a problem, except for journalists investigating it, as, let's say, DAESH, a quasi-religious bunch who REALLY doesn't like journalists. They both base their greed, power and corruption on some format of "divine being", a sure fire excuse for just about any excesses in "the name of god".
On the other hand, we could all read Ayn Rand and become godless ubermenschen, blowing up our own creations and trampling upon the poor; sort of like the GOP/TP/KOCH AFFILIATE plan.
I'm sure the GOP/TP/K.A.'s "altar" is certainly made of gold and the worship of "campaign dollars" a daily ritual.
As the movie title says, "The Gods Must Be Crazy"; certainly as crazy as their worshippers.
35
Nocera isn't picking on any religion; rather he's simply highlighting the content of a documentary about to be released.
18
@ Richard A. Petro
"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest."
~ ÉMILE ZOLA
"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest."
~ ÉMILE ZOLA
27
When was the last time Mormons or Catholics tried to frame a critic for bomb threats? Scientology may not be much of a threat to YOU, but clearly Mr. Behar and Ms. Cooper had very different experiences, and this sole purpose of this article is to describe Scientology's past threats to journalism. In addition, do you really think Ayn Rand is my only philosophical option as a "godless" person? If you're truly curious about the non-Rand parts of the spectrum of atheist thought, consider looking up secular humanism. Just because we're "godless" doesn't mean all, or even most, of us want to blow up creations and trample on poor people.
23
Predictably, an article on any religion brings out all the religion haters for their weekly superiority rants about the mindless idiots who believe in myths. I always wonder why there is so much venom and contempt coming from the secular humanist/atheist camp. Why not live and let live? If I believe in a mythical god and a mythical afterlife, so what? If I am wrong, when I die I will merely cease to exist and never know the difference. If I am right, then you are in for a surprise at death.
As for the not-for-profit status of churches, any of us might not support or believe in the causes that secular not-for-profits uphold, yet you are not questioning their tax breaks. In a democracy our collective funds support many things we as individuals do not want/believe in/need - that's the way the system works.
As for the not-for-profit status of churches, any of us might not support or believe in the causes that secular not-for-profits uphold, yet you are not questioning their tax breaks. In a democracy our collective funds support many things we as individuals do not want/believe in/need - that's the way the system works.
17
'Why not live and let live?' you ask, Anne-Marie. I agree.
The problem arises when the true believers make concerted attempts to foist their beliefs on the rest of us, when their prelates start taking political sides in what is supposed to be a secular nation, when they want, through legislation, to make us accept what they believe.
The sooner those who demand 'respect' for their beliefs speak up and point out that their beliefs are private and should remain so, the sooner we'll start to approach live and let live.
p.
The problem arises when the true believers make concerted attempts to foist their beliefs on the rest of us, when their prelates start taking political sides in what is supposed to be a secular nation, when they want, through legislation, to make us accept what they believe.
The sooner those who demand 'respect' for their beliefs speak up and point out that their beliefs are private and should remain so, the sooner we'll start to approach live and let live.
p.
75
Thank you. What this group never quite seems to understand is that the death toll at the hands of secular totalitarians is exponentially higher than that of that those who perished in the name of religion - assuming one can even begin to calculate the numbers of religious people killed by the Soviets or the Communist Chinese over a few decades during the 20th century. And the quasi-atheistic Jacobins (technically Deists - but the most extreme form), in Hitchens' beloved French Revolution (sorry, I'm with Washington and Adams on that Revolution) were equally quick to dispatch you if they even suspected you of the wrong kind of sympathies. If this be reason, give me a non-coercive "enlightenment" or magical tradition any day of the week.
Intellectual totalitarianism has a long history - and consequently must always be resisted by any means necessary. The problem with Scientology is that it employs totalitarian methods in its ceaseless efforts to control its members frame on reality - and keep them within the fold.
No group employing any sort of totalitarian methodology should be protected by the First Amendment.
Intellectual totalitarianism has a long history - and consequently must always be resisted by any means necessary. The problem with Scientology is that it employs totalitarian methods in its ceaseless efforts to control its members frame on reality - and keep them within the fold.
No group employing any sort of totalitarian methodology should be protected by the First Amendment.
11
A lot of people who do "live and let live" are not posting here. The whole separation of church and state, and the doctrine that the government neither endorses or opposes any religion or lack thereof, is just a longer saying of "live and let live." Scientologists have perpetrated some really scary stuff not only on journalists but apparently on members who want to leave. I think it is okay for this to be reported. No where does it say that there must be no critiques, even yours of what you call the "secular humanist/atheist" camp.
30
As an atheist, I have no issue with any religious person who has a live and let live approach. They are free to celebrate their faith so long as it doesn't harm others.
Here in the United States mainstream religious politicians use their faith as justification for anti-science education laws, unfair and abusive laws that target minorities or foreigners, wars with Islamic counties, and push for a more theocratic government.
My reading of this column is that Scientology has become less aggressive and that's a good thing. I wish others would learn from this example.
Here in the United States mainstream religious politicians use their faith as justification for anti-science education laws, unfair and abusive laws that target minorities or foreigners, wars with Islamic counties, and push for a more theocratic government.
My reading of this column is that Scientology has become less aggressive and that's a good thing. I wish others would learn from this example.
124
Good morning Gemli, your "everybody needs to believe in something" is an all too- common, truism, is It not? Does this apply to Scientology? Do they believe in something, other than naked power? I don't know, but all this coincides with some of my own ruminations of late.
My somewhat educated understanding and study of science, and reasoning analysis, seem antithetical to the religious concept of belief, which is synonymous with faith, which stands itself apart from true verifiable knowledge. I was watching Bill Maher make his point, that faith and knowledge are incompatible, like saying one nullifies and always invalidates the other. Maybe. But to me it's like each can exist on a totally different plane, faith being consciously oblivious to scientific knowledge- a reasoned choice to deny reason. A life-long friend, a Phd in psychology, chooses thusly to be a Southern Baptist, saying she understands what she sees as "my choice" to be an atheist, but she needs something more in her life.
An atheist doesn't "believe" in atheism, he simply admits it, sometimes begrudgingly. But it's a choice- not a belief- to acknowledge reality, or not.
My somewhat educated understanding and study of science, and reasoning analysis, seem antithetical to the religious concept of belief, which is synonymous with faith, which stands itself apart from true verifiable knowledge. I was watching Bill Maher make his point, that faith and knowledge are incompatible, like saying one nullifies and always invalidates the other. Maybe. But to me it's like each can exist on a totally different plane, faith being consciously oblivious to scientific knowledge- a reasoned choice to deny reason. A life-long friend, a Phd in psychology, chooses thusly to be a Southern Baptist, saying she understands what she sees as "my choice" to be an atheist, but she needs something more in her life.
An atheist doesn't "believe" in atheism, he simply admits it, sometimes begrudgingly. But it's a choice- not a belief- to acknowledge reality, or not.
43
We need to end all tax exempt status for all religions in the US. It is past time that all of us must pay for ideologies that we may or not believe in. The problems engendered by choosing to support one religion over another, whether in the name of "freedom" or not, lead circuitously to more violence and war throughout current and past history of the world than anyone wants to admit.
314
Can you imagine the outcry if a president even suggested ending tax exempt status for all religions? "He or she wants a godless state!" He's a communist!" All our presidents have to pass a purity test before they are elected. They must categorically state they believe in god, otherwise there is no chance in hell that they can be elected.
12
I wonder if anyone has calculated the actual loss to the Treasury of religions' exemption from paying taxes. If I could figure out how much it's costing me in taxes to make up that shortfall, I would gladly withhold it in protest.
1
If the government were to attempt to rescind Scientology's tax exempt status... all the "good" religions would immediately rush to Scientology's defense.
53
what good religions? They are all a con job. All should loose tax exempt status. Why must I subsidize a god I know not to exist?
24
It shouldn't surprise us that Scientology, while it possessed the resources to do so, reserved its most damaging revenge for apostates. We see the same reaction in radical jihadist Islamism, that reserves its own most horrific punishments not for those who spring from different cultures and belief systems, but for those who once were believers but who fell off the wagon. Clearly, these individuals pose the greatest threat to a belief system, because they know it so well yet reject it.
138
Same thing could be said about those of us who survived 17 years of indoctrination in the Roman Catholic school system and learned all the lies they tell in the name of religion.
16
lulu:
Settle. Nobody says you have to send your kids to Catholic school -- so don't. And nobody says that after 17 years of Catholic school someone needs to remain a Catholic, a Christian or even a believer in deity.
But for those who do, this is a matter of some commitment of faith, and for many it involves a serious financial sacrifice, or did when I was a kid. Let people live as they will, so long as they don't preach beheadings and immolations of apostates and unbelievers -- there isn't a society on Earth that doesn't largely leave the rearing of kids to parents, and there never was.
Settle. Nobody says you have to send your kids to Catholic school -- so don't. And nobody says that after 17 years of Catholic school someone needs to remain a Catholic, a Christian or even a believer in deity.
But for those who do, this is a matter of some commitment of faith, and for many it involves a serious financial sacrifice, or did when I was a kid. Let people live as they will, so long as they don't preach beheadings and immolations of apostates and unbelievers -- there isn't a society on Earth that doesn't largely leave the rearing of kids to parents, and there never was.
I hope you're right because anything negative you've read about Scientology is true. I was coerced into joining by a partner who threatened to leave me if I didn't. The people I met there were mostly frustrated by their inability to make the world a better place. They were seekers, looking for answers. They have that in common with most believers I know. Unfortunately, they chose a group that abused them.
After spending thousands of dollars on their useless auditing, the "church" kicked me out after I started questioning their teachings. In fairness, other churches did the same when I was a kid and asked questions in Sunday school.
So, while my experience has taught me that none of these institutions likes their fairy tales held up to the light of reason, Scientology is worse than most in how they treat their adherents and those who try to leave. They even contacted me a few years back, trying to find my former partner, who'd also left. They continued to badger me, trying to get me to re-join. To this day I get mail from them at least a couple times a month--despite telling them to stop. I've now decided to welcome it and think about what it costs them every time I drop it in the recycling bin unopened.
After spending thousands of dollars on their useless auditing, the "church" kicked me out after I started questioning their teachings. In fairness, other churches did the same when I was a kid and asked questions in Sunday school.
So, while my experience has taught me that none of these institutions likes their fairy tales held up to the light of reason, Scientology is worse than most in how they treat their adherents and those who try to leave. They even contacted me a few years back, trying to find my former partner, who'd also left. They continued to badger me, trying to get me to re-join. To this day I get mail from them at least a couple times a month--despite telling them to stop. I've now decided to welcome it and think about what it costs them every time I drop it in the recycling bin unopened.
77
All the government subsidies favors and preferences for panderers of religion are blantant gifts of credibility to abject charlatans and a total insult to people who despise con artists. All the legislation that authorizes this cannot be ruled unconstitutional too soon.
135
It's interesting that the word blasphemy never appears in the article. Apparently, lacking the backstory other religions have of saviors, messiahs, and prophets, the Scientologists can only attack the individuals head on. Good Christians can point an accusing finger and shout blasphemy!
10
Given that many of the tenets of Scientology are not supposed to be revealed to outsiders, it would be hard to accuse someone of blasphemy without letting slip the "truth".
7
The Internet has destroyed Scientology's ability to keep secrets. With just a little searching your can find L. Ron himself telling the Xenu story, or what is now known as the OT3 materials.
The two words they do use are Bigot and Apostate.
The two words they do use are Bigot and Apostate.
3
And the difference between Scientology and all the other religions in this regard is what?
People seem to have a strong need to believe in something magical and that need has been easily played upon by charlatans for thousands of years. It's about time we get rid of religion of all sorts - and all the hate and ignorance it spawns. I'm not exactly sure what we will replace it with to fulfill the need for magic but maybe we can start with the simple idea of believing in ourselves while respecting each other. Now that would be real magic.
People seem to have a strong need to believe in something magical and that need has been easily played upon by charlatans for thousands of years. It's about time we get rid of religion of all sorts - and all the hate and ignorance it spawns. I'm not exactly sure what we will replace it with to fulfill the need for magic but maybe we can start with the simple idea of believing in ourselves while respecting each other. Now that would be real magic.
317
Start by respecting religious people, something that atheist fundamentalists can't or won't do.
9
I think that there is far more to this than just respecting religious people. I am an atheist. I have close and extended family members who are deeply religious and belong to several different religious groups. Because they are loving and kind, and I am tolerance itself, we live happily together without friction.
But that is because, for the most part, they try to sincerely follow the words of the prophet, Jesus, to love their god with all their heart and mind and to love their neighbor as they love themselves.
Not all religions follow that simple first and great commandment. And that is why respecting some religious people is simply impossible, as their religion has nothing to do with tolerance, love, kindness, empathy, compassion, understanding, or even remotely deserve respect.
But that is because, for the most part, they try to sincerely follow the words of the prophet, Jesus, to love their god with all their heart and mind and to love their neighbor as they love themselves.
Not all religions follow that simple first and great commandment. And that is why respecting some religious people is simply impossible, as their religion has nothing to do with tolerance, love, kindness, empathy, compassion, understanding, or even remotely deserve respect.
98
The Jacobins already attempted this in the French Revolution, as did the Soviets and Chinese in their revolutions. The result was far worse than any religious persecution that I know of.
5
There are a many people who have benefited from Scientology, but that is never mentioned. These stories - which are just the same stories repeated over, and over again, are old news. Enough already.
3
They would have benefited more from proper psychological or medical help earlier, based on actual scientific techniques, rather than a bunch of nonsense.
155
It is interesting that anything can have a positive effect and I do mean anything. Walking backwards in a circle three times under a full moon can work if you believe that it works. So sure, you can find some members who will say and believe that they have been helped (at least for now). The criminal behavior of Scientology is as newsworthy as the abuse of children by Catholic priests or the forced marriages in fundamental Protestant groups.
493
Please cite some names of these beneficiaries. Could it be the "church" hierarchy who derive great economic benefit from the members? Perhaps you could write the book about the good works of the Scientologists and fully enlighten us.
43
Boycott the "stars" involved in this cult. Money is the Scientology core and those second class stars are no loss.
131
Scientologie's wall of intimidation is crumbling?
Time for the finishing blow, before they can regroup.
Take them down the american way, with law suits.
With all the provable cruelty, thousands of seven-figure and up damage claims should not be so hard to win. Make this a tort lawyer feeding frenzy.
Time for the finishing blow, before they can regroup.
Take them down the american way, with law suits.
With all the provable cruelty, thousands of seven-figure and up damage claims should not be so hard to win. Make this a tort lawyer feeding frenzy.
187
I know Rich Behar from a decade prior at one of Fortune's competitors. He has a great work ethic and real tenacity in following a story. He won the Daniel Pearl award after traveling to Karachi to track down one of the leads connecting the 9/11 terrorists to Pakistan and Germany.
Maybe we should start boycotting Cruise and Travolta films. In the end, that just puts money into the scientology coffers. Their corporate intimidation/blackmail should not be tolerated.
Maybe we should start boycotting Cruise and Travolta films. In the end, that just puts money into the scientology coffers. Their corporate intimidation/blackmail should not be tolerated.
798
I did so over a decade ago.
I haven't given a dime, or a Nelson rating point to any of these idiots. Have you read the utter nonsense of their "beliefs"?
I haven't given a dime, or a Nelson rating point to any of these idiots. Have you read the utter nonsense of their "beliefs"?
71
Sadly, Alierias, yes.
p.
p.
5
I like your idea, Michael, but I don't think boycotting Cruise and Travolta films will make much financial difference to Scientology's bottom line. Neither one has made a really profitable picture in years!
6
All religions are cults. Scientology is based on one man's intent to avoid paying taxes. Joseph Smith founded the Mormons as a con game. Islam is founded on someone hearing voices. Christianity is founded on the Egyptian Osiris tale. Judaism has so many myths it's preposterous.
571
Yes - I agree. "Puffed-up cults" I call them. "Established religions" should be respected by "the establishment" no more. They should be progressively stripped of every vestige of legitimacy. The distinction between them and their victims - their believers - needs to be stressed again and again. That the latter are essentially human beings not "Jews", "Christians", "Muslims" etcetera - and that they would likely be good people if they had not been indoctrinated into a religion needs to be acknowledged and accepted. No-one needs to be religious to be good.
There's a whole world around us of science, reason, general knowledge and wisdom that all should have the right to partake in. None should be excluded from it because of the misfortune of being born into a religious community - and into a society with a culture of condemning people for life because of their misfortune of being born into a religious community. None should be regarded essentially by their religion no matter how vehemently they identify with it. "Identity is contingent but existent and persistent and resistant to change."
"Freedom from religion" is a value far more deserving of support than "freedom of religion" in our 21st century. Given the many threats to its future existence our species faces - it needs as many people as possible to be able to be part of the solution to those problems: not part of those problems. In particular opposition to use of family planning methods should no longer be tolerated.
There's a whole world around us of science, reason, general knowledge and wisdom that all should have the right to partake in. None should be excluded from it because of the misfortune of being born into a religious community - and into a society with a culture of condemning people for life because of their misfortune of being born into a religious community. None should be regarded essentially by their religion no matter how vehemently they identify with it. "Identity is contingent but existent and persistent and resistant to change."
"Freedom from religion" is a value far more deserving of support than "freedom of religion" in our 21st century. Given the many threats to its future existence our species faces - it needs as many people as possible to be able to be part of the solution to those problems: not part of those problems. In particular opposition to use of family planning methods should no longer be tolerated.
72
KarlosTJ - I beg to differ with your casual brush off of all major religions. The difference between a cult and a religion is openness. Scientology, due to its secretive nature, hides esoteric knowledge from non-initiates. Religions publish their beliefs openly in the Bible, Koran, Bhagavadgita, Torah, etc. In contrast, Scientology studies the works of its founder, Ron Hubbard. Cults magnify extremes and social deviance is expected of members and clergy. This is in contrast to mainstream religions which are seen as pathways for spiritual guidance as well as places where like minded individuals of faith can meet and organize for community service, charities for the common good and pray for healing. All human endeavors contain myths as man is the ultimate myth maker. Without myths there wouldn't be great books which inspire millions of people to better their condition as well as see themselves through the eyes of their personal vision of the great Creator.
14
If you identify with all mankind; you can never be a party to an unjust cause.
10
From what ive seen, scientology is analogous to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Technically, the Russian state is not at war with Ukraine or sent in its regular army. Rather, clandestine subversive tactics are used to undermine, influence and ultimately conquer. After which, there is full denial and deliberate misinformation.
Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is that people are free to be stupid, and cults are free to be cults. On the upside, we are also free to fight back and hold these people to account, lets hope we do.
Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is that people are free to be stupid, and cults are free to be cults. On the upside, we are also free to fight back and hold these people to account, lets hope we do.
86
But a free people can fight back by ending the ability of a church, any church, to receive tax-deductible donations. Let each church stand on its own. Let any person donate to their chosen church. But don't give anyone tax deductions for donations to any church.
505
Absolutely and Amen!
19
Ok, I agree people should be free to do dumb things, but can we revoke Scientology's tax exempt status now?
44
People wonder why atheists and secularists are often so "strident" in their attacks on what appears to be benign religious belief. The reason is illustrated clearly in the rise of the abusive cult of Scientology. By claiming to be a religion, it cloaked itself in a pretense of respectability that protected it from criticism. The inquisitional tactics that it used against its detractors were not unlike the tactics used for centuries to cement the power of the Catholic Church. Fear and intimidation are powerful weapons. Once people are afraid to speak out, the cults have won. Unspeakable things may go on behind closed doors, from child rape in the case of the Church to subjugating the weak and gullible who often turn to Scientology to shore up their damaged self-esteem.
The real secrets of Scientology are in plain sight, and always have been. It's no secret that people with low self-worth can be manipulated by charlatans for financial gain. It is a national embarrassment that so many people have been fleeced and abused by an organization whose practices would have landed the leaders in jail, had they not wrapped themselves in religious camouflage.
Everyone needs to believe in something. But there is no need to believe in nonsense that exists only to manipulate the gullible.
The real secrets of Scientology are in plain sight, and always have been. It's no secret that people with low self-worth can be manipulated by charlatans for financial gain. It is a national embarrassment that so many people have been fleeced and abused by an organization whose practices would have landed the leaders in jail, had they not wrapped themselves in religious camouflage.
Everyone needs to believe in something. But there is no need to believe in nonsense that exists only to manipulate the gullible.
1028
I don't wonder. Atheism is license to be as nasty as you wanna be. Some people find that power tempting. No mystery.
3
It's not only "The Church" aka the Catholics, but the Hasidic community, the Jehovahs Witnesses, the Mormons, they all have serious child-rape cases, and all of them treat women little better than property.
Time to free ourselves of this hateful Bronze Age mythology.
Time to free ourselves of this hateful Bronze Age mythology.
197
The Quakers, like the Shakers
have great respect for their maker,
but not contempt for those who disagreed.
An otolaryngologist
who's also a scientologist
isn't burdened by such a noble creed.
Ever since our little brains got big, we've been struggling with internal conflict between existential anxiety and ontological guilt. Early on, some among us saw the benefit of riding herd over the masses with beliefs (almost everything was magical back then) that required leaps of faith but gave great comfort, and codified, in a rudimentary way, rules or laws of comportment such that we wouldn't behave like the "lower" animals. Those animal instincts manifest themselves anyway, as we acted like herds, but called them tribes, and went after the other herds to protect our resources and territory, physical and intellectual, to sustain our dominance. Now we give tax exemptions to multi-millionaires who jump up and down on couches on TV or who fly fleets of their own commercial jets. We have, for the most part, drawn the line at sacrificial offerings, but other than that, such as it was, so will it ever be. The will always be the weak, the gullible, the overwhelmed, and there will always be those who will capitalize on them for fun, power and profit. This occurs not just in religion, but in politics and almost every walk of life. We've tested Mother Nature to her limits, and now revenge is hers. Dog bless America!
have great respect for their maker,
but not contempt for those who disagreed.
An otolaryngologist
who's also a scientologist
isn't burdened by such a noble creed.
Ever since our little brains got big, we've been struggling with internal conflict between existential anxiety and ontological guilt. Early on, some among us saw the benefit of riding herd over the masses with beliefs (almost everything was magical back then) that required leaps of faith but gave great comfort, and codified, in a rudimentary way, rules or laws of comportment such that we wouldn't behave like the "lower" animals. Those animal instincts manifest themselves anyway, as we acted like herds, but called them tribes, and went after the other herds to protect our resources and territory, physical and intellectual, to sustain our dominance. Now we give tax exemptions to multi-millionaires who jump up and down on couches on TV or who fly fleets of their own commercial jets. We have, for the most part, drawn the line at sacrificial offerings, but other than that, such as it was, so will it ever be. The will always be the weak, the gullible, the overwhelmed, and there will always be those who will capitalize on them for fun, power and profit. This occurs not just in religion, but in politics and almost every walk of life. We've tested Mother Nature to her limits, and now revenge is hers. Dog bless America!
15
Isn't every religion like this? Despite reams of evidence that Scientology is fraud, it soldiers on, using harassment like a club. Before that, it was Mormonism. If its adherents are being honest with themselves, the establishment of Christianity as a mainline religion involved several centuries of bloodshed against its enemies, heretics and non believers. Ditto for Islam.
194
"Isn't every religion like this?"
No.
No.
18
It was the Christians who were thrown to the lions, not vice-versa. In later periods of history, you are not wrong.
8
No. It s refreshing to note that "every religion is NOT like this." There exists a quiet group that extends itself in love of God and neighbor. They are taught the language of love (the language of God). You will find them. They are smiling. They are so happy to help you to find the truth. The truth is so powerful you can not obscure it. No matter how much mud you throw on it it will still shine. There exists a God in the heavens who LOVES. YOU will find him in the people who have chosen to represent him and who are bringing you his word. May they encounter no opposition. Because they alone bring you peace.
13
If a Christian goes against the church they joined, and the leaders do not like what s/he does, generally they simply ask the person to find another church or they marginalize them by ignoring them. This applies mostly to very fundamentalist types of churches.
A "religion" that intimidates, harasses, creates great stress and economic hardship through court proceedings that cost great sums of money, is not a religion but similar to an illegal gangster mob.
What reasonable people must ask themselves is why on earth any person would, first, join a group that has the beliefs that the Scientologists do. Secondly, how can an intelligent and logical thinking person believe what they teach, and thirdly, why do they stay in that environment.
It is too bad that the documentary will only be on HBO as not everyone subscribes to that TV channel. I hope that it will be available to those of us who do not and would like to see it also.
A "religion" that intimidates, harasses, creates great stress and economic hardship through court proceedings that cost great sums of money, is not a religion but similar to an illegal gangster mob.
What reasonable people must ask themselves is why on earth any person would, first, join a group that has the beliefs that the Scientologists do. Secondly, how can an intelligent and logical thinking person believe what they teach, and thirdly, why do they stay in that environment.
It is too bad that the documentary will only be on HBO as not everyone subscribes to that TV channel. I hope that it will be available to those of us who do not and would like to see it also.
251
What would you think of a religious organization that systematically protected pedophiles, actively discredited the victims, and hid money to protect it from lawsuits?
Sure, you say, but this is all in the past. But before that scandal, you might have said that the Inquisition was all in the past. Or the Borgias.
Point is that any organization that deems itself divine and beyond criticism is exactly the organization that the worst people on earth will use as a base of operations because it provides them with protection from scrutiny.
Religions will only attain the spiritual qualities they espouse when they are transparent and accountable to people rather than to a deity.
Sure, you say, but this is all in the past. But before that scandal, you might have said that the Inquisition was all in the past. Or the Borgias.
Point is that any organization that deems itself divine and beyond criticism is exactly the organization that the worst people on earth will use as a base of operations because it provides them with protection from scrutiny.
Religions will only attain the spiritual qualities they espouse when they are transparent and accountable to people rather than to a deity.
206
The ususal pattern is that it will be on DVD and maybe Netflix. It probably deserves to be on PBS, but NPR and PBS are scared to death of the political attacks from anything like Scientology that might end their government and also corporate and wealthy guy foundation support.
2
So will the IRS reverse its stand...and take away non-profit status that came about from intimidation?
388
As citizens, voters, and taxpayers we don't have to single out Scientology. We can demand that non-profit status be taken away from any church whatsoever.
A good church should be able to raise money without donations being tax-deductible.
A good church should be able to raise money without donations being tax-deductible.
238
Except that the power to tax is the power to destroy. Whether one picks and chooses religions, or thinks they're equally perverse, once the state can tax a religion, it has (maybe it won't use, but it has) veto power over the practice. I know many on this site think that just taking away tax exempt status will have the positive effect of limiting the civil power of abusive religions, but I personally like the US position of "staying out" of favoring or disfavoring religions by putting them to the side. I think of the pre-Stewart Daily Show joke, in which German government is asked for comment in the 90s about taking away the religious status of Scientology. "Asked how his government could enact laws that pressure a minority religion, the German minister responded, 'It's like riding a bicycle.'" There are some religions that are loathsome, in each person's opinion, but it's not a good idea to give government power over them. (Bring on the individual lawsuits...)
3
One must wonder what kind of dirt the 'church' dug up against IRS officials. Much time has passed, so perhaps so has the strength of the information. But the IRS is not the type of organization to back down without there being some pretty powerful leverage employed in the opposite direction.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Scientology and its tactics. But their running roughshod over the IRS doesn't trouble me nearly as much as their abuses against individual members and critics. It sort of like enjoying two evil empires destroying each other. Unfortunately, the war between them ended far too soon to do any real damage to either one.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Scientology and its tactics. But their running roughshod over the IRS doesn't trouble me nearly as much as their abuses against individual members and critics. It sort of like enjoying two evil empires destroying each other. Unfortunately, the war between them ended far too soon to do any real damage to either one.
10
He was given a car for Christmas one year on the condition that he could not sell it (to give to Scientology).
I haven't seen him in over 15 years; have no idea what happened to him.
The main point of religion is to set a standard of social rules to build and maintain community. Scientology wholly fails this basic benchmark.