Did anyone really expect Putin to abide by this agreement ?
When will we ever learn ? Continued appeasement will accomplish nothing.
When will we ever learn ? Continued appeasement will accomplish nothing.
4
Amazes me how the media have twisted this from what they were saying at the beginning of the conflist, pro Russian separatists, to the unproven claim of Russian backed separatists. Rub it in long enough and the propaganda sticks.
1
The US should not be involved with Ukraine in any way. This is not the US' fight. But the US will sacrifice our soldiers and thousands of innocent lives all over the world for the sake of US imperialism and MONEY.
2
Don't worry, FranSusan, we're not going to send any soldiers to die.
You're in Atlanta, Georgia - you wouldn't be lying about that, would you, FranSusan?
Let's play make-believe...
Imagine if mean men from Tennessee crossed the border into Georgia with tanks and artillery - those are like really big guns - and rocket launchers and decided to make Athens and Nicholson and Danielsville and Watkinsville and Winterville part of Tennessee and they were killing a bunch of people in Georgia and they were bombing all your favorite peach orchards. You would want to defend Georgia, wouldn't you?
Well, there's a mean man named Putler who actually DID invade the OTHER Georgia and some other places and he's always gotten away with it and now he's doing the same thing again to a place called Ukraine ("you-crane").
Well, we're just going to send the nice people of Ukraine some equipment that will better help them to protect THEIR families and THEIR peach orchards to convince the little mean green men from the North to go home to THEIR country and stop killing people and stop stealing land and be content with THEIR Tennessee.
No imperialism, no money for the evil US - just helpful people helping nice people stay safe and free by sending them things that go boom.
You're in Atlanta, Georgia - you wouldn't be lying about that, would you, FranSusan?
Let's play make-believe...
Imagine if mean men from Tennessee crossed the border into Georgia with tanks and artillery - those are like really big guns - and rocket launchers and decided to make Athens and Nicholson and Danielsville and Watkinsville and Winterville part of Tennessee and they were killing a bunch of people in Georgia and they were bombing all your favorite peach orchards. You would want to defend Georgia, wouldn't you?
Well, there's a mean man named Putler who actually DID invade the OTHER Georgia and some other places and he's always gotten away with it and now he's doing the same thing again to a place called Ukraine ("you-crane").
Well, we're just going to send the nice people of Ukraine some equipment that will better help them to protect THEIR families and THEIR peach orchards to convince the little mean green men from the North to go home to THEIR country and stop killing people and stop stealing land and be content with THEIR Tennessee.
No imperialism, no money for the evil US - just helpful people helping nice people stay safe and free by sending them things that go boom.
3
Since the cease fire agreements in Minsk last year Poroshenko has violated the agreements and everybody know that except Obama and his clowns. The Ukrainian military shell the cities killing civilians and the count stands as more than 5400 civilians killed by the Ukrainian military forces. Poroshenko has said it before many times that he does not care about civilians being killed and will continue to do so. The separatist cannot just stand still and take it and for that they need help from Russia if any. The US cannot argue that issue because the US has given military equipment to all terrorist in the Middle- East and Ukraine military as well. The argument is foolish really and the best is for Kiev to recognize the DPR's independence from the rest of Ukraine. It is a war of caprice really on part of Poroshenko whom is an animal and the US puppet.
2
I can't believe anyone thought Putin — I mean, we're talking about Putin here! — would honor an agreement about anything, let alone a ceasefire. Merkel et al. can't even use the Chamberlain excuse that they were naive dups of a ruthless madman with no honor and no respect for international law. They knew that going into the talks.
3
And US diplomacy is not at fault, of course, for this situation leading to a full grown Civil War. Does anybody in the USA think of the victims of this war, the women, children and the elderly? I just read the interview Leon Panetta gave to the German watchdog magazine Der Spiegel. He really says ....'It's an unruly world. And the United States must take the lead in this world. If we don't lead, nobody will do it'. We call such a statement.....'just hot air'.
2
The side that wants to end a war will always lose to the side that wants to win a war.
2
The conflict in Ukraine has to be tied off now, let's hope the crisis abates and we can be grateful that this did not erupt into the out-in-the-open thermonuclear war confrontation with Russia as some had planed.
The US citizenry must come to the realization that the Ukraine crisis was always the pretext driven war on Russia operation. We have out-of-control crazy people in the highest echelons of government, finance and the MSM. An investigation of this matter is necessary to regain the stabilization of the United States.
The Wall St. owned Democratic and Republican political system enables the Fed's unrelenting unemployment-unlimited bailout system to operate the accelerating collapse of the national economy; it is the national security crisis. Economic depressions create the 'logic' and necessity for war. Hence our warmonger Global War policy.
The US citizenry, recognizing that the Fed's monetary financial system is the antithetical to the American national system, and the population, must perform the necessary political intervention, disentangle from the Imperial system, tax and regulate Wall St., reinstate the Glass-Steagall standard in US banking. Reorganize the Fed into the US National Bank credit system, that funds the 50 states, activate the Full Employment Policy, then fund the necessary economy platforms the redevelopment of North America that begins reversing the Greatest Depression. Stop the operation of WWIII. No other options exist and time is wasting
The US citizenry must come to the realization that the Ukraine crisis was always the pretext driven war on Russia operation. We have out-of-control crazy people in the highest echelons of government, finance and the MSM. An investigation of this matter is necessary to regain the stabilization of the United States.
The Wall St. owned Democratic and Republican political system enables the Fed's unrelenting unemployment-unlimited bailout system to operate the accelerating collapse of the national economy; it is the national security crisis. Economic depressions create the 'logic' and necessity for war. Hence our warmonger Global War policy.
The US citizenry, recognizing that the Fed's monetary financial system is the antithetical to the American national system, and the population, must perform the necessary political intervention, disentangle from the Imperial system, tax and regulate Wall St., reinstate the Glass-Steagall standard in US banking. Reorganize the Fed into the US National Bank credit system, that funds the 50 states, activate the Full Employment Policy, then fund the necessary economy platforms the redevelopment of North America that begins reversing the Greatest Depression. Stop the operation of WWIII. No other options exist and time is wasting
The said truth is, all this war and death was totally avoidable, if a year ago, when there were peaceful protests all around Eastern Ukraine, people in Kiev would have listened instead of sending in tanks and bombers to level "colorados" and "vatniks".
2
Any cease fire should have been accompanied by a declaration by NATO that Ukraine would, going forward, be considered a de facto member of the alliance. Thus, any future attack would be answered by all available means including the employing of "special weapons" against any foreign troops.
5
Are you really advocating for tactical nukes on behalf of the loan sharks of the IMF and the neo nazis of Kiev? Isn't that kind of mass murder what the terrorists are threatening us with? Whose side are you on, Madame?
1
Ukraine is on the verge of bankruptcy. Let Putin "win" by taking the weakest section of the country, the eastern region. Then the remaining part of Ukraine might have a ghost of a chance of recovering economically. That would be a win for both sides.
Let's see...
Putin claims that he he not assisting the separatists.
When this thing began, the rebels had a few rusty tanks and some weapon systems along with small arms caches. Now, they mount full artillery assaults with rocket launchers on multiple fronts with tons of ammo. Are they making this stuff themselves suddenly? Are factories spouting in eastern Ukraine? Are they training soldiers in shiny new boot camps somewhere?
We can only assume that western Europe is not stupid and is thus complicit in this mess. Why don't we just cut of aid to Ukraine and hand it over to Russia? We are essentially handing Putin a land bridge to Crimea now. Throw up your hands and let him have it all! Throw in the Baltic nations too, because he will have no reason to stop there. Heck, he would love to have a bridge to Kalingrad as well.
We are very poor at chess, it seems.
Putin claims that he he not assisting the separatists.
When this thing began, the rebels had a few rusty tanks and some weapon systems along with small arms caches. Now, they mount full artillery assaults with rocket launchers on multiple fronts with tons of ammo. Are they making this stuff themselves suddenly? Are factories spouting in eastern Ukraine? Are they training soldiers in shiny new boot camps somewhere?
We can only assume that western Europe is not stupid and is thus complicit in this mess. Why don't we just cut of aid to Ukraine and hand it over to Russia? We are essentially handing Putin a land bridge to Crimea now. Throw up your hands and let him have it all! Throw in the Baltic nations too, because he will have no reason to stop there. Heck, he would love to have a bridge to Kalingrad as well.
We are very poor at chess, it seems.
3
As long as the corrupt crony capitalist oligarchs in Kiev and Moscow cannot peacefully resolve their socioeconomic political educational fight there is little that anyone else can do by military means. After all their long close historical geographic, ethnic, sectarian, cultural and language ties exceed that of America with Canada, Mexico, Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam.
As long as the Europeans (EU, EZ, NATO, IMF, WB) have no interest in a military option there will be none. America has no vital national interests nor values at stake in a nation that like Ukraine which is not a member of any key American alliance. And neither Europe nor Russia need nor can they afford to fund and service Ukrainian debt.
When only .75% of Americans volunteer to put on a military uniform any talk of any military aid of any kind is folly. No Romney nor Trump nor Gingrich nor Giuliani nor Cruz nor Rubio nor Limbaugh nor Cheney nor O'Reilly nor Hannity nor Beck nor Rove nor Christie nor Walker nor Huckabee nor Jindal is going to do any fighting.
As long as the Europeans (EU, EZ, NATO, IMF, WB) have no interest in a military option there will be none. America has no vital national interests nor values at stake in a nation that like Ukraine which is not a member of any key American alliance. And neither Europe nor Russia need nor can they afford to fund and service Ukrainian debt.
When only .75% of Americans volunteer to put on a military uniform any talk of any military aid of any kind is folly. No Romney nor Trump nor Gingrich nor Giuliani nor Cruz nor Rubio nor Limbaugh nor Cheney nor O'Reilly nor Hannity nor Beck nor Rove nor Christie nor Walker nor Huckabee nor Jindal is going to do any fighting.
2
In many ways Putin is again using his well documented modus operandi for those who dare to stand up and declare their independence from him in Ukraine. In the case of Litvinenko it was polonium - an insidious poison surreptitiously introduced into his food to rot the person from within. Or how about Yushenko and the dioxin he was poisoned by. In Ukraine he id doing something analogous - letting a toxic mix of disinformation, doublethink, disguised special forces and military armaments to seep into the country and undermine its quest to individuate and be free. Why does Putin harbor such venomous vindictiveness for those who stand-up independently and call him out. Well no doubt it has to do with the Faustian bargain of his own life - an impoverished childhood in St. Petersberg - wanting more and then throwing-in the towel to join the governing status quo via the KGB - the most cynical organization of all. So - yes, this loser who compensates with quarter million dollar mansions and absurd and empty grandiosities of greater Russia for what he lost long ago cannot stand to see others succeed where he has failed. In his mind they deserve a merciless slow death - not unlike the one he experienced in his soul as a child. He must not be allowed to succeed. Hopefully someone from within Russia will find a way to give him a taste of his own medicine.
7
Perhaps some of his own Polinium medicine?
If only such selfless, patriotic bravery existed in Russia today!
If only such selfless, patriotic bravery existed in Russia today!
3
Didn't millions of Europeans (and American soldiers) die in WWII to establish the principle that one nation cannot just march into another sovereign nation and try to grab it (or parts of it)? (Yes I know that the Soviet Union did more or less the same to Hungary and Czechoslovakia.) I'm amazed at how feckless the Europeans are in the face of this naked aggression right in their own backyard. The economic sanctions have had their intended impact, but Putin doesn't care because he knows he is willing to use more drastic measures but Western Europe is not. I would like to see the Russians cut off from the SWIFT banking system, and/or more weapons supplied to Ukraine, but ONLY if the Europeans are leading the way. If Europe doesn't care enough to do so, then President Obama and the U.S. should not go it alone.
5
At the time of the Munich Agreement, the French could have easily defeated the Nazis with the aid of British air power, but chose to sell out the Czechs.
Czechoslovakia had the will to fight. The Soviets, excluded from the talks in Munich, were willing to attacked Germany from the East.
The Poles would not have given them passage. The Poles could have attacked the Germans two create a two-front war for Germany, but Warsaw had its eye on a small piece of Czechoslovakia.
The Western allies had no will. French had not finished the Maginot Line.
The leadership of the NATO countries that history does not repeat itself, only historians.
Why do anything meaningful for a corrupt and incompetent Ukraine. This policy is understandable, but wrong-headed.
In a break from history, the British, French and U.S. should begin placing nuclear artillery shells in Warsaw.
Germany should increase its defense spending.
For reason of symbolism, the West should withdraw from the OSCE and create a new organization in its place, without Russia. They should also all withdraw their Ambassadors and Banks from Moscow.
Czechoslovakia had the will to fight. The Soviets, excluded from the talks in Munich, were willing to attacked Germany from the East.
The Poles would not have given them passage. The Poles could have attacked the Germans two create a two-front war for Germany, but Warsaw had its eye on a small piece of Czechoslovakia.
The Western allies had no will. French had not finished the Maginot Line.
The leadership of the NATO countries that history does not repeat itself, only historians.
Why do anything meaningful for a corrupt and incompetent Ukraine. This policy is understandable, but wrong-headed.
In a break from history, the British, French and U.S. should begin placing nuclear artillery shells in Warsaw.
Germany should increase its defense spending.
For reason of symbolism, the West should withdraw from the OSCE and create a new organization in its place, without Russia. They should also all withdraw their Ambassadors and Banks from Moscow.
3
Obama was outfoxed by Putin again! What a Commander in Chief.
2
What would you have done?
1
Under Putin, Russia has not honored a single agreement it's signed. It's unlikely to start now.
4
There are here some comments on the Malaysian airliner shooted down in the Eastern Ukrain.
Anyone could give an answer on the simple question why the Ukranien authorities have sent the Malaysian airliner to the dangerous zone where several military airplanes were shooted down just before?
Anyone could give an answer on the simple question why the Ukranien authorities have sent the Malaysian airliner to the dangerous zone where several military airplanes were shooted down just before?
1
You blame Kiev for your own government's shooting down of an airliner?
If you Russians are going to behave like a criminal pariah state, you should at least be competent about it. If you can't be competent, you should at least be honorable enough to stand up and take responsibility for what you've done.
But that's the crux of the issue...Russia under Putin has no honor and there is blood on all of your hands.
If you Russians are going to behave like a criminal pariah state, you should at least be competent about it. If you can't be competent, you should at least be honorable enough to stand up and take responsibility for what you've done.
But that's the crux of the issue...Russia under Putin has no honor and there is blood on all of your hands.
4
It is not an answer, but just blaing.
So I put this question in more concrete manner: Was it to send a civilian airliner to the dangerouse zone (changing its usual rout nearer to the dangerouse zone according to the Russian media) foolish, hope that someone shoot it down or direct crime?
So I put this question in more concrete manner: Was it to send a civilian airliner to the dangerouse zone (changing its usual rout nearer to the dangerouse zone according to the Russian media) foolish, hope that someone shoot it down or direct crime?
US foreign policy is hypocritical. In 1823 The Monroe Doctrine laid out a marker to other powers not to mess around in the entire American continent.
The Ukraine historically is in Russia's sphere of influence and since the fall of the Berlin wall the West either in the form of EU enlargement or NATO has been pushing east. Cheney tried and failed to get Georgia into NATO, Ukraine is more of the same by stealth.
You don't have to be pro Russian to understand that they are very wary of the threat from the west, the last time having lost 28 million people.
The Ukraine historically is in Russia's sphere of influence and since the fall of the Berlin wall the West either in the form of EU enlargement or NATO has been pushing east. Cheney tried and failed to get Georgia into NATO, Ukraine is more of the same by stealth.
You don't have to be pro Russian to understand that they are very wary of the threat from the west, the last time having lost 28 million people.
1
Ukraine was not trying to join NATO and NATO would not have them.
All they wanted was to increase trade with the EU. If Russia was not such a failing state, Ukraine would have been content.
In the end, your boss will have brought about a realignment of Russia's neighbors toward the West far worse than Ukraine's initial flirtations.
Tactical success, strategic failure.
All they wanted was to increase trade with the EU. If Russia was not such a failing state, Ukraine would have been content.
In the end, your boss will have brought about a realignment of Russia's neighbors toward the West far worse than Ukraine's initial flirtations.
Tactical success, strategic failure.
2
This is from the Minsk agreement signed by Putin, Merkel, Holland, and Poroshenko:
"Withdrawal of all foreign troops and weapons from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups."
Since Putin signed it, it means he acknowledged the presence of "foreign troops and weapons" in Ukraine. Since Putin has never claimed a presence of any Western troops and weapons, the only ones he could agree to withdraw are Russian.
What more evidence do we need of Putin and Russian lies?
"Withdrawal of all foreign troops and weapons from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups."
Since Putin signed it, it means he acknowledged the presence of "foreign troops and weapons" in Ukraine. Since Putin has never claimed a presence of any Western troops and weapons, the only ones he could agree to withdraw are Russian.
What more evidence do we need of Putin and Russian lies?
5
The more President Putin drags this out while signing documents which to date have been meaningless on the ground the more he empowers the very part of Ukraine he states are unacceptable to have influence in developments, the far right so-called fascists-nationalists of the country who have never trusted him and will state "I told you so". All of this SO FAR is self-perpetuating, by Putin. The Ukraine problems should have been negotiated, compromised and fixed months ago. Russia is not on the ground with people and weapons? False statement. Putin is not involved on the ground, so he is not a party to the war and can do nothing? False statement. Nothing but bad precedents to date. We are going to have to step up to the plate WITH EUROPE and remind the Russian people they are our friends, they remain our friends, and we have no long term interests strategically in Ukraine. However, their leadership must know that Ukraine is not Georgia. Ukraine is in the Baltics, northern Europe. While Bush 43 waved a big stick or promises to Georgia then did nothing, this is Europe. Putin is losing the "way of life" economic decision making by Eastern Europe and the Baltics. Putin's chessboard stops here; otherwise European countries such as Moldavia, Latvia, Estonia, Poland and even Finland are going to FEEL the negative outcomes of having Russian state security operatives and influence hanging as a shadow right next door to them in Ukraine into the future.
North Vietnam denied any of it's troops were in South Vietnam, right up to their entering Saigon. Everyone knew it, no one cared, didn't change anything. We survived the fall of Saigon, we can survive the fall of Minsk, or Kiev, or whatever. There are no dominoes about to fall. Russia is near bankruptcy. Ukraine is already bankrupt. Let Putin seize the Ukraine, it will push Russia over the edge. Let him have Greece too.
1
How come every single place US and the allies get involved in becomes a terrible mess? You name it: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, Yemen, etc. One failure and one miscalculation after another. And please don't pass this off as George Bush, as Obama is now a war president also.
The United States has refused to recognize Russia's traditional interests in Ukraine. Apparently there is the Monroe Doctrine to protect our interests in the Western Hampshire, but Russia gets the same old cold war policy of a "ring of steel". We have recruited Nato membership among the former Eastern Block, tried to surround Russia with missiles, and shamelessly interfered with Ukrainian domestic politics - all of them failures.
The United States has refused to recognize Russia's traditional interests in Ukraine. Apparently there is the Monroe Doctrine to protect our interests in the Western Hampshire, but Russia gets the same old cold war policy of a "ring of steel". We have recruited Nato membership among the former Eastern Block, tried to surround Russia with missiles, and shamelessly interfered with Ukrainian domestic politics - all of them failures.
2
Back in the 1770s, a group of Englishmen who lived in colonies across the Atlantic wanted to be free from England, so they rebelled, won their freedom, and became the United States of America. No other stood opposed to them except Germany, who supported England. France supported the colonists in their war for freedom Germany, Britain's ally did not claim France was causing trouble in the colonies to fuel the colonist revolt. Why does the US claim Russia is at the center of fermenting revolt in the Ukraine? Could it be these Ukrainians in the east may prefer Russia? Why is it when other nation's around the world want to change their governments of politically leanings, the US steps in a tries to stop it? They did this in 1954 in Vietnam, when the Vietnamese people voted to be a single nation under Ho Chi Mien. But the US objected, denied the results of the plebiscite, installed a corrupt leader in the South, and eventually went to war to prevent the inevitable, a single unified Vietnam. The US tried, but miserably failed, to reverse political change in Cuba in 1963. Why can't the US learn from it past an stop trying the rule the world?
2
"Could it be these Ukrainians in the east may prefer Russia? "
The last independent poll taken before the uprising showed that eastern Ukrainians preferred to remain part of Ukraine, even ethnic Russians preferred this by a 58-27 margin. The fact that Russians were bused in for the initial protests and that Russians provided the initial leadership for the uprising, the American Revolution analogy doesn't work.
The last independent poll taken before the uprising showed that eastern Ukrainians preferred to remain part of Ukraine, even ethnic Russians preferred this by a 58-27 margin. The fact that Russians were bused in for the initial protests and that Russians provided the initial leadership for the uprising, the American Revolution analogy doesn't work.
4
Western leaders are no more willing to risk the lives and living standards of their citizens over stopping radicals in Africa & the Middle East from committing genocide than they are over protecting a bankrupt eastern European nation from invasion by its neighbor.
Both are morally righteous causes for action.
Both are morally righteous causes for action.
1
The US faulting Russia is as predictable as the sun rising in the east.
One supposes that we can give the Ukrainians more weapons but the Russians will gladly and easily match and surpass those deliveries including specialist troops.
Escalation of the conflict works to the tactical advantage of Russia and not Ukraine.
One supposes that we can give the Ukrainians more weapons but the Russians will gladly and easily match and surpass those deliveries including specialist troops.
Escalation of the conflict works to the tactical advantage of Russia and not Ukraine.
2
If Ukraine had used the past two decades since independence to build a healthy society with functioning governmental institutions, it would have a military capable of standing up to Russia. Poland, the Baltic states and other countries that had been under Soviet domination went down that path.
Ukraine allowed corrupt kleptocratic politicians to rob the state blind, creating a failed state with Nigerian levels of corruption and incompetence in the middle of Europe. They are reaping the just rewards, as their resource starved military crumbles before a bunch of rag tag separatists backed by Russia.
However Russia cannot be allowed to recreate the USSR. If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will take over Poland and the Baltic States, and will then deign not to invade Hungary Slovakia and the Czech Republic if the West agrees to the borders he has just created.
Ukraine allowed corrupt kleptocratic politicians to rob the state blind, creating a failed state with Nigerian levels of corruption and incompetence in the middle of Europe. They are reaping the just rewards, as their resource starved military crumbles before a bunch of rag tag separatists backed by Russia.
However Russia cannot be allowed to recreate the USSR. If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will take over Poland and the Baltic States, and will then deign not to invade Hungary Slovakia and the Czech Republic if the West agrees to the borders he has just created.
2
I find it absolutely amazing that despite all of the reporting and photos coming from rebel territory in the Ukraine - nobody can come up with a current photo of actual Russian military equipment - i.e. something significant that was never deployed in the Ukraine and can be clearly traced to Russia. Instead we get a mixture of provably bogus photos from 2008 in Georgia and satellite pics that could be anything. The result is a "Yes it is - No it isn't" argument that just makes the US look foolish. We need to fix this
2
The USA cannot and should not be in the business of resolving Europe's regional problems. Collectively the European Union has more population than the USA and is a formidable economic power in itself. They must shoulder the primary burden of dealing with an aggressive Russia. The Europeans should recognize that you will not have "Peace in our time" when dealing with the likes of Stalin, Hitler or Putin. The Europeans can either stand up to Putin now or watch him nibble away the territory of their neighbors that had once been engulfed by the Soviet Empire. He means to reestablish that hegemony over eastern Europe once again.
2
Well as always when the US interferes in the internal affairs of other countries - a crime - then it ends with bloodshed and war. And as so often the US uses those dark forces interested in grabbing power by using violence, Salafist thugs in the Middle East and Afghanistan, Pinochet in Chili, Guatemalan and Turkish generals, Greek colonels and Ukrainian fascists. Instead of exporting its goods, technology or culture it exports mayhem.
2
Contrary to what Putler's online army is commenting here, again and again, providing Ukraine with anti-tank weapons DOES NOT mean the US has to go into direct war with Russia.
The Kremlin keeps pushing this false choice between:
a) the rest of the world just "minding its own business" and letting Russia invade, kill, and steal land from its neighbors while lying about it and saying there are no Russian troops in Ukraine, that Russia isn't supplying the Rebels, and pretending everyone BUT Russia is responsible for the war in Ukraine,
Or:
b) the US going to war with Russia and spending trillions of dollars while America's bridges and healthcare system crumbles, sending millions of Western ground troops to Ukraine to kill and die for the sake of evil Western corporate interests up to and including World War 3 and global nuclear annihilation.
Like most things Russians are saying these days, that is utter hooey.
The Ukrainians don't need to build a military the size or strength of Russia's - they just need a few tens of millions of dollars of anti-tank weapons to start destroying some of the Russian tanks invading Ukraine that Russians pretend aren't even there. And some training of troops in the west of Ukraine, far away from the conflict.
One mustn't forget that Russia has provided plenty of enemies of the West with weapons during hot conflicts - atms are Russia's only real export industry, after all.
The Kremlin keeps pushing this false choice between:
a) the rest of the world just "minding its own business" and letting Russia invade, kill, and steal land from its neighbors while lying about it and saying there are no Russian troops in Ukraine, that Russia isn't supplying the Rebels, and pretending everyone BUT Russia is responsible for the war in Ukraine,
Or:
b) the US going to war with Russia and spending trillions of dollars while America's bridges and healthcare system crumbles, sending millions of Western ground troops to Ukraine to kill and die for the sake of evil Western corporate interests up to and including World War 3 and global nuclear annihilation.
Like most things Russians are saying these days, that is utter hooey.
The Ukrainians don't need to build a military the size or strength of Russia's - they just need a few tens of millions of dollars of anti-tank weapons to start destroying some of the Russian tanks invading Ukraine that Russians pretend aren't even there. And some training of troops in the west of Ukraine, far away from the conflict.
One mustn't forget that Russia has provided plenty of enemies of the West with weapons during hot conflicts - atms are Russia's only real export industry, after all.
6
Typo...
"atms" should be "arms."
It's possible Russia can't/doesn't manufacture professional-grade ATMs for indigenous use, let alone any the rest of the world would want to buy. But I could be mistaken.
Though while I suppose it's POSSIBLE Russian industry designs and builds state-of-the-art, best-in-class cash machines, the Titans of Russian industry have proven themselves far more adept at STEALING money than distributing it to citizens.
"atms" should be "arms."
It's possible Russia can't/doesn't manufacture professional-grade ATMs for indigenous use, let alone any the rest of the world would want to buy. But I could be mistaken.
Though while I suppose it's POSSIBLE Russian industry designs and builds state-of-the-art, best-in-class cash machines, the Titans of Russian industry have proven themselves far more adept at STEALING money than distributing it to citizens.
1
It is clear that Putin is irrational; he cannot understand and comprehend higher abstractions of reason. To him force, the threat or the use of is a language he is fully immersed and familiar. To have diplomacy both must have certain parameters to discuss issues and problems and have an adroitness to pursue rational discussion. But if your counter part is of a late 19th, early 20th century rationale, diplomacy is pointless and caters to Putin's belief: the west is too weak and indecisive to meet and confront Russia militarily. As Minsk 2 attempts to takes hold and as Putin is clearly violating the treaty, the EU and the US must have frank discussions on how to better prepare Ukraine for the next Russian incursion...In the beginning I believed diplomacy would prevail and Putin would back off. But economic sanctions and the corrosion of Russia’s economy only has solidified both Putin's and Russia's resolve. Perhaps, it is time to consider more drastic measures and speak a language that Putin understands!
4
It is very obvious that Putin is using deception to advance militarily. Putin is bullying Ukraine.
The real question is why the West is enabling these deceptions, over and over and over. In the long run, appeasing a bully like Putin leads to more aggression, more war, more instability.
The real question is why the West is enabling these deceptions, over and over and over. In the long run, appeasing a bully like Putin leads to more aggression, more war, more instability.
4
Merkel, Holland and Putin can have meetings daily to talk cease fires and it will not make one bit of difference. Putin will blithely agree to anything. Talk is cheap. But he has no intention of putting an end to Russia's aggresion since his goal is to ultimately regain all of Ukraine. The world should stop naively expecting these talks to amount to anything and Obama should stop his empty threats. These so called "separatist rebels" will continue and even increase their invasion even as Putin cynically agrees to talks to reach a peaceful agreement..
8
Other wars have ended with a cease fire agreement that is set to start at a future time. This always happened.
There is a famous picture of our artillery firing until the very last moment before the Armistice ending WW1. See the picture of the "last shot fired." The same thing happened at the end of the 1967 and 1973 Arab Israeli wars. If the agreement is to stop shooting at a future time, then they do shoot until that time. They try to grab the last bits.
Nobody should be surprised.
There is a famous picture of our artillery firing until the very last moment before the Armistice ending WW1. See the picture of the "last shot fired." The same thing happened at the end of the 1967 and 1973 Arab Israeli wars. If the agreement is to stop shooting at a future time, then they do shoot until that time. They try to grab the last bits.
Nobody should be surprised.
3
Ceasefires work when both sides have come to a stalemate, not when one side has been rapidly winning territory - there is no incentive in East Ukraine for the Russian forces to honor the ceasefire at this time. Putin desires the Russian controlled sections of Donetsk & Luhansk oblasts to be as economically viable as possible so he is not required to flush more of his rapidly depleting currency reserves into that hole. This requires that the Russians control the railroads at Debaltseve now and the port city of Mariupol in the near future. Putin's trip to Minsk was about propaganda and delaying US supply of defensive arms to the Ukrainians, nothing more. He tried to push through a 10-day delay so as to assure that Debaltseve was taken by the forces that he supports before the ceasefire deadline. As is, Putin's puppets in East Ukraine have declared that they will continue the assault on government forces at Debaltseve until they control it without regard to the ceasefire. The Russian forces are sure to renew their attacks on Mariupol as well, if not immediately, they will do so within a few weeks to months after they have built up additional assault forces from Russia.
2
STALLING FOR TIME, 3 days, IS THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK
Our state dept. can't be that naive but then again Iran is probably doing the same in order to build their bomb..
Our state dept. can't be that naive but then again Iran is probably doing the same in order to build their bomb..
3
a. taxpayer-- are you willing to pay more taxes for our intervention in the Ukraine? Better yet, just volunteer for active duty in the Marines or special ops.
Let the Europeans take the peace initiative. I think we have a full plate e.g. Iraq, Syria, Yemen. Qatar, etc. etc. etc.
We can not even take care of our damaged veterans.
Hegemony is stupidity in this era.
Let the Europeans take the peace initiative. I think we have a full plate e.g. Iraq, Syria, Yemen. Qatar, etc. etc. etc.
We can not even take care of our damaged veterans.
Hegemony is stupidity in this era.
1
If the US really cared that much about Ukraine, it should have sent Obama, Biden or Kerry to make diplomatic overtures alongside Merkel and Hollande instead of issuing a press release that we are prepared to arm the Ukrainians. Joe Biden's son must be smirking from Ukraine.
13
The Obama administration is smart enough to know Putin's word is worth less than nothing. In fact, Putin is so dishonest and dishonorable that if he promises something to you, you're worse off than if he didn't interact with you at all.
Negotiating with Putin only gives him a smokescreen. It's been attempted for months and it always results in the same thing - lies and betrayal and some of the worse play acting in the history of amateur theatrics.
Because of Germany's 20th-century history and because of France's collective nature and subordinate role to Germany, those two nations had to attempt peace through talk with Putler at least one more time, but I suspect even they will be near the end of their patience when, in days or weeks, Russia retakes the offensive.
Then Russia will wish it had lived and let live and permitted Ukrainians to try to undo the damage of decades of Soviet imprisonment unmolested by Russia's political meddling and revanchist misadventures.
Negotiating with Putin only gives him a smokescreen. It's been attempted for months and it always results in the same thing - lies and betrayal and some of the worse play acting in the history of amateur theatrics.
Because of Germany's 20th-century history and because of France's collective nature and subordinate role to Germany, those two nations had to attempt peace through talk with Putler at least one more time, but I suspect even they will be near the end of their patience when, in days or weeks, Russia retakes the offensive.
Then Russia will wish it had lived and let live and permitted Ukrainians to try to undo the damage of decades of Soviet imprisonment unmolested by Russia's political meddling and revanchist misadventures.
2
The US shouldn't be involved in Ukraine in the first place. They pose no threat to US citizens.
2
Europe wanted them to keep their beaks out for once.
Smirking thug billionaire Putin thinks the rest of the world is just a silly joke. But Putin's ideas are and impotent failure all the way around.
9
It is a well-rehearsed script. Ossetia and Abkhazia broke away from Georgia, Pridnestrovie is trying to part with Moldova, Nagorny Karabakh is torn between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Buffer zones is the kremlin's strategy of NATO opposition.(same strategy was used by russian empire) Debaltseve is necessary for Putin to unite Donetsk and Lugansk into Novorossia - Ukrainian version of a conflicting territory serving as a buffer zone for a Russian regime. Pro-russian sentiment is strong in these eastern territories especially now after conflict claimed thousands of lives.
Europe is ready to accept this scenario as they are in need of Russia for their own economic well being. They are gaining western ukraine as a new member state.
USA however is interested in continuing this conflict as the sanctions are hurting Europe much more than US, giving it economic advantage.
Ukraine's viability depends on IMF(read USA) financing as they are very close to default and economic collapse, so they are likely to follow through with American's preference of continuation of this conflict.
Europe is ready to accept this scenario as they are in need of Russia for their own economic well being. They are gaining western ukraine as a new member state.
USA however is interested in continuing this conflict as the sanctions are hurting Europe much more than US, giving it economic advantage.
Ukraine's viability depends on IMF(read USA) financing as they are very close to default and economic collapse, so they are likely to follow through with American's preference of continuation of this conflict.
7
Your first 2 paragraphs are deeply intelligent and provide good perspective on the situation.
It appears you may be giving the US more credit for diabolical intentions when the reality may be apathy because the options are limited. US and the world should avoid an all out war that our military industrial complex would love. Greater economic sanctions and total ostracizing of Putin may be options to consider.
It appears you may be giving the US more credit for diabolical intentions when the reality may be apathy because the options are limited. US and the world should avoid an all out war that our military industrial complex would love. Greater economic sanctions and total ostracizing of Putin may be options to consider.
3
US faults Russia - now there's a surprise.
The most war-hungry country in the world is criticising Russia for trying to maintain its traditional territorial boundaries.
Obama is also miffed because Merkel and Hollande kept the US at arms length and directly negotiated with Putin, achieving a deal which satisfies Poroshenko.
Had the US been involved the negotiations would have turned into another Korean 52nd parallel.
Has the US ever had a more belligerent president?
The most war-hungry country in the world is criticising Russia for trying to maintain its traditional territorial boundaries.
Obama is also miffed because Merkel and Hollande kept the US at arms length and directly negotiated with Putin, achieving a deal which satisfies Poroshenko.
Had the US been involved the negotiations would have turned into another Korean 52nd parallel.
Has the US ever had a more belligerent president?
11
That would be the 38th parallel, Mr. Sherdy
Agree. G Bush pales in comparison to this warmonger.
Reading the terms of the so-called ceasefire worked out in Kyiv by Merkel and Hollande and Putin, I thought how friendless Poroshenko and the Ukrainians really are. In seeing video footage of the session, I kept looking for the umbrellas that surely Merkel and Hollande must have had in their baggage. Unlike Chamberlain at Munich though, even they don't believe they have "brought peace in our time." They perfectly well know that this has been a transparent and colossal sell-out that is bound to fail--in days, not weeks.
7
Merkel has failed and seems she is selling Ukraine with Hollande.
Really a shame that Europe is failing humanity.
Should Merkel believes she is doing good for Ukraine she is misguided in believing so. The humane European stand should be to arm Ukraine and stand shoulder to shoulder against the Russian tyrant. Nothing has been learned from history it seems.
Really a shame that Europe is failing humanity.
Should Merkel believes she is doing good for Ukraine she is misguided in believing so. The humane European stand should be to arm Ukraine and stand shoulder to shoulder against the Russian tyrant. Nothing has been learned from history it seems.
2
It doesnt matter whether you are republican or democrats, when comes to war with other countries, they are one and they have only one voice. Aggression.
6
Are we going to bail out Europe again? Seems we would have learned our lesson after two World Wars. Let Germany and France deal with Putin.
5
Pressure should be applied on Ukraine in order for nationalist elements there to stop talking about "united country at any cost" and start considering other options, such as peaceful break up of the country similar to what happened in Czechoslovakia. No other solution is possible. IF the West sends weapons or troops to Ukraine the only result is the world will get dangerously close to WWIII. Russia is not North Korea or Iran, it cannot be simply isolated or intimidated with threats.
12
The Ukraine has always been a united country, especially under Soviet control.
They are fighting because they remember oppression under Stalin that resulted in millions dead.
Russia can not win this war. The World does not want another Soviet Regime.
If Russia wins on the battlefield, it will be forever isolated from the rest of the World. You and Putin better be ready to huddle together for warmth.
They are fighting because they remember oppression under Stalin that resulted in millions dead.
Russia can not win this war. The World does not want another Soviet Regime.
If Russia wins on the battlefield, it will be forever isolated from the rest of the World. You and Putin better be ready to huddle together for warmth.
5
But it can, and WILL be decimated financially. Enjoy your bread lines comrade. They're coming sooner rather than later. Russia's cash surplus will quickly drain away. There's far too inadequate a reserve of foreign currency to service the debts it already has and Russian debt is already at junk status, making it far more costly to pay off. Putin makes Russians feel strong, but once there's nothing to eat and no jobs, people aren't going to feel so strong.
5
Russia is not North Korea or Iran, it cannot be simply isolated or intimidated with threats.
This statement is becoming further from the truth as time goes on. We are in a dangerous world where the escalation of attack from another country's nukes are becoming more realistic as we sit powerless to stop the scenario without plunging the world into a major conflagration.
This statement is becoming further from the truth as time goes on. We are in a dangerous world where the escalation of attack from another country's nukes are becoming more realistic as we sit powerless to stop the scenario without plunging the world into a major conflagration.
1
It seems the Obama administration has got the EU inot a no-win-situation over the Ukraine. All the fighting and many of the fatalities could have been avoided but for the US' urge ion the Ukrainians to belligerency. For the avoidance of doubt there is absolutely no legal basis for the US to support a Ukrainian administration no matter the perceived Russian intervention. With the Russians literally surrounded on all sides by NATO it is somewhat impossible to expect the Russians to sheepishly follow the EU and US on Ukraine.
Merely pumping lethat a,ms tokraine will in no way help resolve the impasse, no, it would only lead to even more fatalities, suffering and escalation; after all the Ukrainians d no have a properly trained modern army to use the lethal weapons the Obama administration wants to 'assist' the Ukrainians with.
Merely pumping lethat a,ms tokraine will in no way help resolve the impasse, no, it would only lead to even more fatalities, suffering and escalation; after all the Ukrainians d no have a properly trained modern army to use the lethal weapons the Obama administration wants to 'assist' the Ukrainians with.
7
Legal basis: Budapest Memorandum 1994
2
Russia is surrounded by free market economies that are not run by dictators that steal from the people and invade neighboring countries. The free market has come to Russia's border and this is plainly unacceptable to the gang of thieves that have stolen the Russian economy.
Propaganda and lies are broadcast to the Russian people, and a civilian airliner is shot down one day after sanctions are levied. Ceasefire agreements are made and immediately violated by Russian troops who are not there.
Putin has no respect for laws against theft, murder or illegal war.
We have no choice except to supply the Ukraine to keep the Ukraine in the war. There is no difference between the Ukraine and the Baltic States - they are all on the Russian border. The Baltic States are next and the war has already started. As soon as the war is over in Ukraine the Russian army will cross the border into Estonia.
Russia will violate the ceasefire agreement and seize more territory, just as Russia violated the Yalta agreements in 1945 and made vassal states out of Eastern Europe instead of independent democracies.
Russia says it is fighting NATO, that Ukraine is just a foreign legion for NATO. We should take them at their word - they have attacked NATO without provocation, where NATO has lived in peace for 70 years without any attack on Russia.
Putin has thrown out deterrence and started a war.
Propaganda and lies are broadcast to the Russian people, and a civilian airliner is shot down one day after sanctions are levied. Ceasefire agreements are made and immediately violated by Russian troops who are not there.
Putin has no respect for laws against theft, murder or illegal war.
We have no choice except to supply the Ukraine to keep the Ukraine in the war. There is no difference between the Ukraine and the Baltic States - they are all on the Russian border. The Baltic States are next and the war has already started. As soon as the war is over in Ukraine the Russian army will cross the border into Estonia.
Russia will violate the ceasefire agreement and seize more territory, just as Russia violated the Yalta agreements in 1945 and made vassal states out of Eastern Europe instead of independent democracies.
Russia says it is fighting NATO, that Ukraine is just a foreign legion for NATO. We should take them at their word - they have attacked NATO without provocation, where NATO has lived in peace for 70 years without any attack on Russia.
Putin has thrown out deterrence and started a war.
3
I cannot stop to wonder as to why a person named "Maigari" from "Nigeria" has such a strong Kremlin accent in this post?
3
For peace through diplomacy to work, you have a have a partner that is genuinely interested in peace. Unfortunately, that is not Putin - where has he EVER shown that he wants peace?
We can stand by and watch as Ukraine is slowly eaten away bit by bit until it is all under Russian control, or we can help the Ukrainians defend themselves. Really folks - this country made an agreement with Ukraine to guarantee their borders in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons. So far the word of the USA has been worth some MREs and medical supplies and that is all.
I'm not saying that we need to put American troops there, but we should be giving the Ukraine the weapons they need to defend themselves, and providing as much intelligence as we can.
We can stand by and watch as Ukraine is slowly eaten away bit by bit until it is all under Russian control, or we can help the Ukrainians defend themselves. Really folks - this country made an agreement with Ukraine to guarantee their borders in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons. So far the word of the USA has been worth some MREs and medical supplies and that is all.
I'm not saying that we need to put American troops there, but we should be giving the Ukraine the weapons they need to defend themselves, and providing as much intelligence as we can.
22
but we should be giving the Ukraine the weapons they need to defend themselves
This is how all conflicts usually escalate into us becoming more involved. I think we are way over-stretched in as far as being the world's policeman. If all the Roman soldiers are away, who will protect Rome from attack?
This is how all conflicts usually escalate into us becoming more involved. I think we are way over-stretched in as far as being the world's policeman. If all the Roman soldiers are away, who will protect Rome from attack?
2
DHBarr
Could not agree more. What are we doing ..? To me it seems we made the matter worse by not arming Ukraine and leaving these poor people to a menace Putin.
Europe will reap what they did not do with their soft diplomacy towards Russia.
People grow a spine!
Could not agree more. What are we doing ..? To me it seems we made the matter worse by not arming Ukraine and leaving these poor people to a menace Putin.
Europe will reap what they did not do with their soft diplomacy towards Russia.
People grow a spine!
America's goal - the war and destabilization, here in America, economic growth, because if something happens benefit only gets America (arms trade, capital flows, additional market, increased trade and .t.d.) If America need peace was there would be no: Maidana, the Taliban and other Islamist organizations would not have so much power in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and other countries of the East.
It is clear, as NYT posters exemplify, that Ukraine is a black-and-white issue, the West 100% right, Russia 100% wrong, no qualms in rendering the judgment, no reservations, just absolute certainty in the West's moral rightness. The Times contributes to that moral absolutism, demonizing Putin in the process.
To say otherwise makes one a Stalinist or moral criminal. I guess I should wear a striped suit with a picture of Uncle Joe on a t-shirt. Ukraine is a potential seedbed for WWIII and nuclear conflagration. Why? Because it is the the proxy context for NATO's clustering on the Russian border, and because it is part of the US geopolitical strategy for promoting Russia's decline (similarly, Obama's Pacific-first strategy for China's decline).
Why deny the obvious? The US seks the RESTORATION of its unilateral global supremacy. This is no longer possible in a changing world power-structure, not only the two major designated enemies, but other rising powers leading to a multi-polar global framework. The fact that the US has joined with (perhaps pressured) the EU to adopt a hostile stand--neither Nuland nor the COUP is a figment of my imagination, nor for that matter, neo-Nazis presence in the Kiev government--toward Russia, doesn't seem to matter in the West. Deniability is the handmaid of the geostrategic posture.
So be it. I alone can make no difference. Let the historical wheels grind on to the inevitable debacle--and worse.
To say otherwise makes one a Stalinist or moral criminal. I guess I should wear a striped suit with a picture of Uncle Joe on a t-shirt. Ukraine is a potential seedbed for WWIII and nuclear conflagration. Why? Because it is the the proxy context for NATO's clustering on the Russian border, and because it is part of the US geopolitical strategy for promoting Russia's decline (similarly, Obama's Pacific-first strategy for China's decline).
Why deny the obvious? The US seks the RESTORATION of its unilateral global supremacy. This is no longer possible in a changing world power-structure, not only the two major designated enemies, but other rising powers leading to a multi-polar global framework. The fact that the US has joined with (perhaps pressured) the EU to adopt a hostile stand--neither Nuland nor the COUP is a figment of my imagination, nor for that matter, neo-Nazis presence in the Kiev government--toward Russia, doesn't seem to matter in the West. Deniability is the handmaid of the geostrategic posture.
So be it. I alone can make no difference. Let the historical wheels grind on to the inevitable debacle--and worse.
13
I could not disagree more
2
The "COUP" is a figment of your imagination. A coup is when, as Edward Luttwak wrote so well -- "A coup consists of the infiltration of a small but critical segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control of the remainder." This was an uprising from outside the government. Nuland isn't a figment of your imagination but the power you impute to her is. A phone call where diplomats discuss the opposition leaders is nothing more than that. Likewise, the presence of Svoboda/Right Sektor in the Ukrainian government is a figment of your imagination. They have no presence in the cabinet and are a sliver of the Rada.
2
So at what point do we stop the Russians?? They are obviously lying to the whole world that they have no direct military involvement in Ukraine, a 10 year old grade school student could see Russia is lying. Yet appeasement to Russia seems to be the only answer the Germans and French and the Western nations come up with. This is very sad common sense no longer exists. The Russian government is guilty of murder of innocent people and of violating Ukraine's borders. Also what about the 1994 agreement to protect Ukraine's borders and sovern rights in exchange for them to give up nuclear weapons which the USA apparently forgot about. A very loud and strong bookmark should be put in front of the Russian government immediately or we will repeat WWII in the form of WWIII. Putin needs to take a long vacation!
9
Obama will leave in two years and neither Merkel or Hollande will probably still be in office in five. None of them wants a prolonged conflict. Putin however, will be in power for at least a decade more and perhaps longer. This trouble is just beginning.
The truce might hold, but only so Putin can consolidate his winnings. Better be prepared for further agitation in Ukraine or elsewhere in the region. Military aggression, so far, has proved to be a very successful tool.
Besides weapons and military personnel to advance their position, the Russians are also supporting cyber attacks on the West. Europe still needs oil and gas from Russia and Putin will not hesitate to use that as a weapon. Currently the price of fuel is down, handicapping Putin, but that hasn't stopped him. What do people think will happen when those prices return to a more normal level? Will the West ever collectively recognize Putin for what he is and challenge him?
Putin isn't crazy but he is a sociopath as far as the West views him. Of course, he doesn't care what we say. Just don't be surprised by his next adventure. He's not going anywhere and he's going to be around for a long time.
The truce might hold, but only so Putin can consolidate his winnings. Better be prepared for further agitation in Ukraine or elsewhere in the region. Military aggression, so far, has proved to be a very successful tool.
Besides weapons and military personnel to advance their position, the Russians are also supporting cyber attacks on the West. Europe still needs oil and gas from Russia and Putin will not hesitate to use that as a weapon. Currently the price of fuel is down, handicapping Putin, but that hasn't stopped him. What do people think will happen when those prices return to a more normal level? Will the West ever collectively recognize Putin for what he is and challenge him?
Putin isn't crazy but he is a sociopath as far as the West views him. Of course, he doesn't care what we say. Just don't be surprised by his next adventure. He's not going anywhere and he's going to be around for a long time.
5
There is no way the United States should go to war over the Ukraine but there are excellent ways to demonstrate to the Putin regime that its actions have very negative and serious consequences. We should freeze immediately any assets the top 2000 wealthiest Russian families own in the United States, revoke their visas, and deport them home. Their wealth clearly depends on the good will of the regime. Tell them that we will hold their property in abeyance until such time as Russia desists its illegal incursion into Ukraine. The Russian elites are addicted to the good life that the West affords them and should not be allowed to enjoy it here while tacitly supporting actions against our interests.
4
3-CARD MONTE: There is an admired Russian Archetype of the 'strongman' who becomes the organizing principle within chaos by sheer will and strength of purpose; getting things done and taking what they want in a way that others who are mired by logic, rules, or morality cannot. Such sociopathic tendencies, celebrated in certain Russian leaders in history flourish in Putin. Putin secures billions for himself, using the intelligence services, army, and the law, to hide his personal wealth-grab, promoting the pretense of a dualistic them-against-us nationalistic paranoia to a militia made up of the naive or self-serving. The enemy is not the west, but the greedy, instant-gratification strategies of Putin & the Oligarchy. The west, wishing to avoid a direct conflict with Putin, is playing the negotiation game. But where do you imagine are the limits of greed for a sociopath who has already stolen billions and has nuclear weapons?
After the 'cold-war' ended, an opportunity was missed to redefine that nation as a more inclusive, empowering society. Despite their remarkable people, they did not diversify and distribute influence. A movement allowing some intelligent, creative, enterprising individuals to prosper based on their ingenuity did not generalize through the creation of a supportive infrastructure to translate these attributes into growing, profitable organizations that competed on the global stage. No "Made in Russia" stamp adorns goods sold generally abroad.
After the 'cold-war' ended, an opportunity was missed to redefine that nation as a more inclusive, empowering society. Despite their remarkable people, they did not diversify and distribute influence. A movement allowing some intelligent, creative, enterprising individuals to prosper based on their ingenuity did not generalize through the creation of a supportive infrastructure to translate these attributes into growing, profitable organizations that competed on the global stage. No "Made in Russia" stamp adorns goods sold generally abroad.
5
Only those of us that understand the Russian psyche understand the danger of Putin. The man KGB educated has no morality clothes himself with the Russian traditional faith but has the heart of KGB.
1
The author clearly suggests that Russia is the side in the conflict, despite lack of evidence, and puts all blame on one side.
Yet Russia has absolutely no profit from any of these operations: it has lost friendly state at the border, lost economic connections with Eastern Ukraine, has to provide housing and food for about a million refugees, faced sanctions from both Europe and rest of the world. "Cui Prodest" principle - Latin for "to whose benefit" applied to this situation, supports the idea that Russia couldn't initiate these events since it has no profits but serious costs and losses as a result of this war.
The same is true for this peace agreement. Russian government and people want this peace desperately, they want cancelling of sanctions, stopping isolation from the rest of the world. So let us all hope this cease-fire will last and help forge lasting peace.
Yet Russia has absolutely no profit from any of these operations: it has lost friendly state at the border, lost economic connections with Eastern Ukraine, has to provide housing and food for about a million refugees, faced sanctions from both Europe and rest of the world. "Cui Prodest" principle - Latin for "to whose benefit" applied to this situation, supports the idea that Russia couldn't initiate these events since it has no profits but serious costs and losses as a result of this war.
The same is true for this peace agreement. Russian government and people want this peace desperately, they want cancelling of sanctions, stopping isolation from the rest of the world. So let us all hope this cease-fire will last and help forge lasting peace.
4
While seizing Crimea and E. Ukraine may not have profit for Russia that is hardly important. The Russian people may not want Ukraine but that isn't important either. What does matter is that Putin wants them. The "former" KGB officer (once KGB, always KGB) wants to recreate as much of the Soviet Union as possible and is willing to put ordinary Russians to the test to get it. Russia isn't the major player, it's Vladimir Putin.
Where has all the military hardware that the separatists possess come from? They seem to be better supplied than the Ukrainian Army.
When Crimea was first occupied Putin denied that the Russians were involved, then admitted afterwards "Yes, it was us all along."
Photos of Putin at the recent truce negotiations in Minsk show him smiling with the look of the proverbial "cat who swallowed the canary".
All of what is going on in Ukraine has Putin's fingerprints all over it - and he's getting away with it.
Where has all the military hardware that the separatists possess come from? They seem to be better supplied than the Ukrainian Army.
When Crimea was first occupied Putin denied that the Russians were involved, then admitted afterwards "Yes, it was us all along."
Photos of Putin at the recent truce negotiations in Minsk show him smiling with the look of the proverbial "cat who swallowed the canary".
All of what is going on in Ukraine has Putin's fingerprints all over it - and he's getting away with it.
2
Whether the 2 sides in this unfortunate and sad occurrence realized it or not it is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle that is at work here : Each time the Russian speaking E. Ukranians want every thing they asked be met the Kiev's side gets taxed off and conversely when the kiev's side insists that only it's wishes are met the other side gets denied a lot of things.SO, its not possible for 1 side to realize every thing it dream t of having.That is why these 3 of the most important leaders of our time toiled sleeplessly.Each side have to realize that they are part of Europe and like US and few other countries are expected to lead by example on what civilized existence has to look like.Europe ( it includes Russia ) is quite capable of finding a common ground via serious reasoned argument and that is how the truce is reached at and the two sides need to be strong and disciplined enough to tame their emotions.The Pop teen Star justine Beiber pelleted his neighbor's house with several eggs, out of childish rage and he got fined Many 1000 USDs and this being how civil, people in Europe, US and other civilized countries,they have to be to each other how could in a middle of Europe not S.Sudan someone gets shelled while in a kitchen or in their living room?.E Ukranians they will always need Europe Kiev's side Ukranians they will always need Russia 2 remain Economically and culturally vibrant. 4 Russia and rest of Europe and US respectful engagement is what serves them best.TMD.
Its irresponsible for the US to comment on the Spirit of any deal made when this nation failed to be a party to the agreement. I wondered what Russia was to expect when the responsible actors to the Coup d etat takeover in Kiev, CIA, was allowed to keep their illegal regime in power even after being exposed to the world in the Nuland-Pyatt transcripts. We are the bad actors here and if this nation is to truly desire peace then, we must fess-up and step down.
5
Why is this any business of the United States?
Why did the Europeans pointedly exclude the United States from the most recent peacekeeping episode?
Might quite of few of the 8 or 9 thousand Ukrainians surrounded at the front be Americans in Ukrainian uniforms?
The war cycle does not peak until 2020. This peace wiill not hold even if all the belligerents sincerely want peace because cycles are beyond the control of governments. Obama is helpless for a reason quite apart from his personality, distractions of immediate politics, or America's rogue agencies.
We are caught in cycles. The War Cycle - 2020, The Civil Unrest Cycle - 2017. This is the first time since the year 1713 the two come together. We can expect far more upheaval than we saw at the end of WW2 with the Verteibung des Deutschen from the East.
No politician can change the landscape of time.
Why did the Europeans pointedly exclude the United States from the most recent peacekeeping episode?
Might quite of few of the 8 or 9 thousand Ukrainians surrounded at the front be Americans in Ukrainian uniforms?
The war cycle does not peak until 2020. This peace wiill not hold even if all the belligerents sincerely want peace because cycles are beyond the control of governments. Obama is helpless for a reason quite apart from his personality, distractions of immediate politics, or America's rogue agencies.
We are caught in cycles. The War Cycle - 2020, The Civil Unrest Cycle - 2017. This is the first time since the year 1713 the two come together. We can expect far more upheaval than we saw at the end of WW2 with the Verteibung des Deutschen from the East.
No politician can change the landscape of time.
2
1) The West is playing long term tactics - sanctions
2) The west is engaging in diplomacy without any consequences goto 1)
3) Putin agrees and ignores all there are no consequences to this.
4) Diplomacy without sting is a sham
5) Arm Ukraine with defensive weapons, anti-tank, anti-mortar, radar, APC
2) The west is engaging in diplomacy without any consequences goto 1)
3) Putin agrees and ignores all there are no consequences to this.
4) Diplomacy without sting is a sham
5) Arm Ukraine with defensive weapons, anti-tank, anti-mortar, radar, APC
5
Whatever happened to the ideal of self-determination and our support for government by the consent of those governed? Of course Ukraine's independence should be regarded as non-negotiable. So should its right to align itself with the West if that's what it wants.
But the people of eastern Ukraine, who found themselves part of that country by the historical accident of a Soviet "republic" becoming an independent country, have a right to determine their own future, too, and if they prefer to join Russia, the country that they and their forebears were ALWAYS part of, then who are we to tell them, no, they must remain minorities in some other country (a country which never actually existed except for a few brief periods in the 10th and 17th centuries, and which even then didn't include all the lands known as Ukraine today)?
The violence consuming the region is a tragedy. Sending more arms into the area will only mean more, and more deadly, fighting. Instead of calling for more weapons, or more economic blackmail, we should be calling for elections. Let the people vote. Let them choose their own way.
But the people of eastern Ukraine, who found themselves part of that country by the historical accident of a Soviet "republic" becoming an independent country, have a right to determine their own future, too, and if they prefer to join Russia, the country that they and their forebears were ALWAYS part of, then who are we to tell them, no, they must remain minorities in some other country (a country which never actually existed except for a few brief periods in the 10th and 17th centuries, and which even then didn't include all the lands known as Ukraine today)?
The violence consuming the region is a tragedy. Sending more arms into the area will only mean more, and more deadly, fighting. Instead of calling for more weapons, or more economic blackmail, we should be calling for elections. Let the people vote. Let them choose their own way.
8
If you have been following this conflict you would know that there was never majority support to leave Ukraine or r join Russia even in Donetsk. The whole premise of this war/Russian invasion was and is a construct of the Kremlin mafia propaganda machine under the direction of their leader, Putler. It is stunning how posters here conveniently forget the facts.
3
While we watch Putin violate this Minsk Accord (same as the last Minsk Accord) it's time to prepare to use the Nuclear Option. No, not the one Putin likes to threaten. The West's Nuclear Option would be the SWIFT system. Like the neutron bomb, it's damage would be limited. It would severely limit the ability of Putin and his fellow kleptocrats to move the assets they steal from the Russian people ($150 billion in 2014 alone). If the other kleptocrats can't move their stolen loot their support for Putin would evaporate. The only problem would be in getting the West to stand up to its own lawyers, investment bankers, property developers and other Western partners in the massive theft of Russia's wealth.
12
None of this is pretty to look at. HowUkraine, of all places, became the place where the neo-cons want to show Russia who's boss is mind-boggling, unless the goal is to create a new cold war with Russia, and/or to make Obama and anyone whose party loyalty begins with a D look weak and vacillating. This nostalgia for an invincible America that would prevent Russia from acting as she is accused of doing here is a myth. Yes, the U.S.A. is the strongest military power in the world. But our military power has always had its limits; in China when the Communists took over; in Korea when we tried to occupy the entire peninsula; in Eastern Europe, when the Russians rolled into Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968; in Vietnam; and most recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. And the major reason for these so-called failures in so many places since the end of WWII is that the decision was made, too often later than sooner, that vital U.S. interests did not justify the costs of anything that might be called success or victory. We stood up and took on all risks of ultimate war when necessary: in Berlin when Khrushchev gave us an ultimatum to leave, and in the Cuban Missile Crisis (although what really resolved this crisis was our secret removal of nuclear missiles from Turkey). Our victory in the Cold War did not give us power in the parts of the world where we never before had power. That's the lesson the neo-cons don't seem to have learned.
7
I agree completely. One thing though, it wasn't Krushchev who was at the helm in the Soviet Union at the time of the Berlin airlift, it was Stalin -- an altogether different kind of animal!
1
How could the French President and Ms Merkel of Germany be so naive in orchestrating this cease fire with Vladimir Putin. Didn't their military people tell them while they were negotiating with the Russian leader he was instructing his military to move into eastern Ukraine to help the separatist achieve his desired territorial gains before the cease fire was to take affect on Sunday? I can't ever remember hearing or reading about someone being so gullible in their efforts to achieve a blank piece of paper that got them nothing. When will they learn that you can't trust the Russian megalomaniac leader to honor his agreements. Only superior military force with make him do what is right. It is the only thing he understands and respects.
10
Ukraine and the rest of Europe need to recognize that Russia holds all the military cards in this conflict. It can escalate at will and no amount of military assistance to the Ukraine will change the balance of power. Thus, it is a mistake for Ukraine to engage in armed conflict, no matter how justified. A much more effective policy would be to draw a line some distance away from the front lines, stop military
activities and concentrate on improving the Ukranian economy. It and Europe need not recognize any status of the eastern provinces that does not include them as a legitimate part of the Ukraine. Sanctions against Russia should continue until there is a resolution that all Ukranians can live with.
In the long run what will matter is whether the part of Ukraine associated with Europe will see its economy thrive in contrast to the part that wants closer ties with Moscow. If that is not the case the whole fight is pointless.
activities and concentrate on improving the Ukranian economy. It and Europe need not recognize any status of the eastern provinces that does not include them as a legitimate part of the Ukraine. Sanctions against Russia should continue until there is a resolution that all Ukranians can live with.
In the long run what will matter is whether the part of Ukraine associated with Europe will see its economy thrive in contrast to the part that wants closer ties with Moscow. If that is not the case the whole fight is pointless.
4
Obama and the leaders of every EU country should be deeply ashamed. Putin continues to literally get away with murder, as he brazenly extends his conquest of Ukraine. And, the news media, including the NYT, should be ashamed as well. They continue to parrot the Putin-inspired myth that it's "separatist rebels" fighting in Ukraine rather than who's really leading the attack - the Russian military. And, if anyone believes that this so-called cease fire will ever hold, they're kidding themselves, yet again. Putin will not stop until all of Ukraine is under his kleptocratic rule. Then, it'll be the Baltic states and Moldavia. And, finally, at some point, maybe a couple of years from now, the leaders of the EU and US will slap themselves upside their heads and realize that they should have stood their ground at Crimea.
As a side note, presumably long-time NYT readers/commenters have noticed the explosion of pro-Putin/Russian comments on NYT stories about Ukraine in the last month or so. It's pretty obvious that Putin's propaganda machine is hard at work here.
As a side note, presumably long-time NYT readers/commenters have noticed the explosion of pro-Putin/Russian comments on NYT stories about Ukraine in the last month or so. It's pretty obvious that Putin's propaganda machine is hard at work here.
14
The fact that quite a few people in the USA are aware that current crisis in Ukrain has been initiated by the interference of the USA in internal political events of Ukrain is the best confirmation of effectiveness of US State propaganda but not Putin's one. Listen to Psaki comments - they are simply mockery - "russians are guilty in Ukrain crisis because they are bad guys when USA and pro-US politicians in Kiev are like angels no matter how many people of Donbass are killed as result of pro-USA ukrainian military attack". The true is as follows - the USA has impeled this civilian war in Ukrain consciously to destroy Russian -EU cooperation in energy industry and then to seize European energy market.
The West is accusing Russia but it conveniently forgets that it all started with those Maidan protests, applauded by the West. That crowd , instead of democratically wait for the next elections, ousted theYanukovych by force. Democracy was invented to avoid chaos, and trampling upon it brought the chaos Ukraine is in now.
4
Let's take a different approach here. Have the US provide more military support to Ukraine thereby increasing the purchases from the military industrial complex corporations who definitely love war, for very obvious reasons. In this way the Russian military industrial complex can to the same thereby improving their economy as well. The only losers would be those dumb Ukrainians who seem to fall prey to the sales made by the companies who rely to a significant degree on war. The best part is that both the USA and Russia cannot lose as the wars they support are not on their soils.
1
Words against artillery and missiles is a losing proposition. Either the Western countries care about Russian aggression in the Ukraine or they don't. Based on the total lack of effective action, they don't. If the decision is to avoid a military conflict at any cost, then we might as well let the events play out, but spare us the State Department speeches and picture displays that don't accomplish anything. Teddy Roosevelt believed in talking quietly but carrying a big stick. It appears that the Western, and U.S., strategy is to talk loudly and carry a large microphone.
3
Julia,
Europe's inaction on Ukraine is not a call for US action. As an expat, Ukraine is in my backyard. Innocent EU citizens died in the shoot down of MH17, and it was decided to overlook the details as a matter of convenience.
Same story with Syria today. Refugees pouring into Western Europe are a real issue, and present real time problems for Europe. Yet still Europe sleeps.
Indeed, Europeans do not feel every problem can or should be solved at the point of a gun. That may be a uniquely American point of view. But what is evident is an unwillingness to call a spade a spade. All the diplomatic palaver that ever was cannot hide what is happening in Ukraine and Syria, so maybe it is time for a re-thinking.
Putin is a bully doing bully's work. Europe is cowering because its economy is tethered to Russian gas for the foreseeable future, but cannot come out and say it.
Not a good place to be. The US can stay asleep. She has less than nothing at risk.
Europe's inaction on Ukraine is not a call for US action. As an expat, Ukraine is in my backyard. Innocent EU citizens died in the shoot down of MH17, and it was decided to overlook the details as a matter of convenience.
Same story with Syria today. Refugees pouring into Western Europe are a real issue, and present real time problems for Europe. Yet still Europe sleeps.
Indeed, Europeans do not feel every problem can or should be solved at the point of a gun. That may be a uniquely American point of view. But what is evident is an unwillingness to call a spade a spade. All the diplomatic palaver that ever was cannot hide what is happening in Ukraine and Syria, so maybe it is time for a re-thinking.
Putin is a bully doing bully's work. Europe is cowering because its economy is tethered to Russian gas for the foreseeable future, but cannot come out and say it.
Not a good place to be. The US can stay asleep. She has less than nothing at risk.
5
So the Russians are not being honest -- I am shocked, shocked!
3
The Russians are coming - really?
"Senator Inhofe (Oklahoma) issued a statement late Thursday saying he was furious"
“The Ukrainian parliament members who gave us these photos in print form as if it came directly from a camera really did themselves a disservice,” We felt confident to release these photos because the images match the reporting of what is going on in the region. I was furious to learn one of the photos provided now appears to be falsified from an AP photo taken in 2008."
"Senator Inhofe (Oklahoma) issued a statement late Thursday saying he was furious"
“The Ukrainian parliament members who gave us these photos in print form as if it came directly from a camera really did themselves a disservice,” We felt confident to release these photos because the images match the reporting of what is going on in the region. I was furious to learn one of the photos provided now appears to be falsified from an AP photo taken in 2008."
5
For the moment the separatists are trying to capture as much land as they can, before midnight. Putin said there was no guarantee that the peace deal would be honoured, as Russia had no influence on the development in East Ukraine. Yet there are reports that Russian units along the border were preparing a large shipment of supplies to the separatists.
EU leaders have warned Putin that it could face additional sanctions if the agreement is not observed. So far they have not barred Russia from the international payment system - SWIFT. This would render powerless, as it wouldn't be able to do business abroad.
EU leaders have warned Putin that it could face additional sanctions if the agreement is not observed. So far they have not barred Russia from the international payment system - SWIFT. This would render powerless, as it wouldn't be able to do business abroad.
7
Please read: EU leaders have warned Putin that HE could face additional sanctions if the agreement is not observed. So far they have not barred Russia from the international payment system - SWIFT. This would render MOSCOW powerless, as it wouldn't be able to do business abroad.
Indeed Ukraine's territorial integrity has to be intact, if it wants to join the EU and NATO. Unfortunately Kiev would not be able to regain territories lost to the rebels. This is Putin's game - a perpetual conflict that keeps Ukraine pre-occupied, so that it can't move on!
Indeed Ukraine's territorial integrity has to be intact, if it wants to join the EU and NATO. Unfortunately Kiev would not be able to regain territories lost to the rebels. This is Putin's game - a perpetual conflict that keeps Ukraine pre-occupied, so that it can't move on!
2
Hey, there's a cease fire coming! Let's try and kill as many people as possible before it takes effect... Madness.
2
Obviously someone wants all that gas abd oil Russia has,,,How could it be anything but that,,The EU said they would welcome Russia into the UE..Wake up,,the planet is on fire and in a state of war for love of fossil fuels..Lets stop our crass materialism
5
Also, very much about agri businesses interests as they want to take over the small farmers' plots on Ukraine's deep black earth soil.
1
While we're looking at corporate interests, why is it that Joe Biden's son recently went to work for Ukraine's largest gas producer in the hope of weaning Europe off of Russia and onto Ukraine?
3
Merkel and Hollande agreed to a 70 hour delay in the implementation of a cease fire? I don't ever want them negotiating on my behalf. Enough said.
9
Elsewhere it was reported the rebels and Putin were demanding 10 days until the cease-fire and the 3 days was the compromise the Europeans pushed on Ukraine. Who seeks a cease-fire with 10 days before implementation. Time to pull the switch on Russian use of the SWIFT dollar system.
1
John McGlynn
Merkel and Hollande are not negotiators and naive or very self serving..?
Truly if Europe had cur rage they would put a stop to the Putin nonsense.
Obama has no interest in Ukraine and that shown because it does nothing for his legacy. He is prospering the Ukraine mess and what comes after for the next President who ever it is.
Great leader failed one more time.
Merkel and Hollande are not negotiators and naive or very self serving..?
Truly if Europe had cur rage they would put a stop to the Putin nonsense.
Obama has no interest in Ukraine and that shown because it does nothing for his legacy. He is prospering the Ukraine mess and what comes after for the next President who ever it is.
Great leader failed one more time.
The Russian Defence Minister has just visited Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Cuba...
How do you think is it connected with the tention over Ukraine?
How do you think is it connected with the tention over Ukraine?
5
Right, now we will see those countries in Ukraine. Unfortunately, Russia will never stop providing soldiers, bombs and bullets to Eastern Ukraine. It will take NATA, EU, UN, and the US to provide counterbalancing supplies and forces. I don't believe Obama will do it, so it is up to Congress to order it, or the next president. A Republican who promises war?
1
It Dosen't, The Russians arn't going to let a war interrupt their vacation.
Shows Putin is following the same road map of the Soviet Union as it fell apart in the 1980s. Crashing gas prices, a war eating up resources, but still need to spend the little hard currency left propping up useless military bases and allies abroad while putting on shows like the 1980 olympics.
4
Here on the NYT there were two articles showing death and destruction in the eastern cities of Ukraine. The rebels shoot to their mothers and children?
Why no accusations of Kiev authorities?
Why no accusations of Kiev authorities?
12
The Ukrainians sought an immediate cease-fire,if Russia are so worried about the loss of innocent life, why would its official position be that the cease-fire is delayed 10 days.
5
It is delayed because the rebels want to push the Ukrainien troops further from their cities. The rebels do not believe the Kiev authorities - the truce will be disturbed as it was before.
Besides, everybody understands that the reason of the present negotiations is to simply save Ukrainiens troops from defeat - there is about 8000 Ukranien solders in the Debaltsevo pocket right now!
Besides, everybody understands that the reason of the present negotiations is to simply save Ukrainiens troops from defeat - there is about 8000 Ukranien solders in the Debaltsevo pocket right now!
1
The Debaltseve pocket has nothing to do with protecting cities, it's too far away from both. It's about restoring the direct road between Donetsk and Luhansk. In short, their willing to keep the killing going to gain a local advantage. The reason of the present negotiations is to forestall US arms shipments to Ukraine.
3
"U.S. Faults Russia as Combat Spikes in East Ukraine" What's the use of "faults?" When we entertained a $1T WMD-hunting game in Iraq, there were tons of blames on us, did they make any difference?
Don't send weapons. Whatever we give out will be used against us, as history has taught us time after time. If anyone truly want to make a difference, send in troops and get ready trading nukes with Putin.
Don't send weapons. Whatever we give out will be used against us, as history has taught us time after time. If anyone truly want to make a difference, send in troops and get ready trading nukes with Putin.
7
Why is anyone bothering with this fake cease-fire? It's a charade. Putin is going to do his thing, all the while denying what he's plainly doing.
3
While America accuses Russia of taking unfair advantage of a two-day window before a truce is Ukraine it is the United States who has been subverting international law as the principal, lone and unequaled destabilizer worldwide since the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991 – not that it ever was a wallflower before.
The game appears to be to distract attention from America's hideous record of offenses in its ongoing interventions and escalations in the Middle East.
See U.S. Is Escalating a Secretive War in Afghanistan (The New York Times, Feb. 12, 2015), for a most recent example.
The game appears to be to distract attention from America's hideous record of offenses in its ongoing interventions and escalations in the Middle East.
See U.S. Is Escalating a Secretive War in Afghanistan (The New York Times, Feb. 12, 2015), for a most recent example.
11
You have no clue. The American public understands the differences between what is happening in Ukraine, the Middle East, Afhanistan, Iraq, and even Canada!
4
@ Jay Detroit
You wish the "American public" was that enlightened! The fact is that, by any standard, it is not, most of it oblivious to and disengaged from gloval affairs, ignorant of even the simplest geographic notions, amnesiac of any current events and misguided and misinformed by the likes of Fox News propaganda which they accept on faith – self-proclaimed "exceptional" America, self-obsessed and self-consumed.
"The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion."
~ ARNOLD H. GLASOW
(1905 - 1998)
American businessman and humorist.
You wish the "American public" was that enlightened! The fact is that, by any standard, it is not, most of it oblivious to and disengaged from gloval affairs, ignorant of even the simplest geographic notions, amnesiac of any current events and misguided and misinformed by the likes of Fox News propaganda which they accept on faith – self-proclaimed "exceptional" America, self-obsessed and self-consumed.
"The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion."
~ ARNOLD H. GLASOW
(1905 - 1998)
American businessman and humorist.
1
When are Americans finally going to come to the realization that the Obama administration has completely failed them with its saber rattling bluster in Ukraine?
In this age of asymmetric warfare even the ideologues of American exceptionalism should have understood by now that a successful engagement strategy must entail a lot more than hostility and threats of the same. In particular, attempts to intimidate Russia ring hollow and painfully so.
American resistance to reason may indeed be the true hallmark of their "exceptionalism."
In this age of asymmetric warfare even the ideologues of American exceptionalism should have understood by now that a successful engagement strategy must entail a lot more than hostility and threats of the same. In particular, attempts to intimidate Russia ring hollow and painfully so.
American resistance to reason may indeed be the true hallmark of their "exceptionalism."
10
And you people in Germany should be leading the way in pushing Russia for peace. Why is the US that all the time must be the world's peacemaker? Or is it your position just to give Russia whatever she wants?
7
The Atlanticists who are in thrall to their transoceanic masters remain in leading positions of authority in Germany. So our decisions do not reflect our needs but those of our rulers. A classic case of Stockholm syndrome.
Once we correct that situation, you may rest assured that the self-destruction of Europe to serve the supremacy fantasies of third parties will have come to an end.
Once we correct that situation, you may rest assured that the self-destruction of Europe to serve the supremacy fantasies of third parties will have come to an end.
As a German I can say Germany failed as leader and lasting peace maker in Europe.
The failure of Merkel will be felt for years to come as Russia expanse its borders further and further into Europe.
The failure of Merkel will be felt for years to come as Russia expanse its borders further and further into Europe.
3
First of all there is no such thing as a defensive weapon there is only defensive equipment such as a bulletproof vest to defend against an offensive weapon.
Second, we have wasted our young military volunteers blood and our treasure at the expense of having the infrastructure of the U.S. comparable to a third world country.
Too many mistakes. Repeating them is insanity.
Second, we have wasted our young military volunteers blood and our treasure at the expense of having the infrastructure of the U.S. comparable to a third world country.
Too many mistakes. Repeating them is insanity.
6
Russia also has lots of nukes and I don't hear anyone complaining about that little threat to world peace.
1
Ukrainian War. What is good for? America wins, European Union, Ukraine and Russia lose.
The American military-industrial complex fills the slack left by the end of Iraq-Afghanistan wars. As Paul Krugman writes, overseas wars were always good to propel the US economy. America sells weapons while Europeans contribute with money, blood and boots on the ground.
European taxpayers pick up Made in USA weaponry bill while corporations borne the financial-economic sanction costs imposed on Russia. In addition, EU will be responsible for nation building in Ukraine. A nation riddle with Greek style corruption but with an economy many times bigger.
Francois Hollande and Angela Merkel, aware of historical lessons of small wars turning into world wars, refuse to go along with Washington. Perhaps Berlin/Paris would get better results if Bibi Netanyahu is hired to lobby the powers that be in DC on their behalf.
The American military-industrial complex fills the slack left by the end of Iraq-Afghanistan wars. As Paul Krugman writes, overseas wars were always good to propel the US economy. America sells weapons while Europeans contribute with money, blood and boots on the ground.
European taxpayers pick up Made in USA weaponry bill while corporations borne the financial-economic sanction costs imposed on Russia. In addition, EU will be responsible for nation building in Ukraine. A nation riddle with Greek style corruption but with an economy many times bigger.
Francois Hollande and Angela Merkel, aware of historical lessons of small wars turning into world wars, refuse to go along with Washington. Perhaps Berlin/Paris would get better results if Bibi Netanyahu is hired to lobby the powers that be in DC on their behalf.
6
We have leaders who are spineless and will take us to bigger catastrophe by not facing this danger now. we do not want to go to cold war situation but guess what we are already in it..so let us face it ..we have the biggest weapon now with internet and economic power. we should use that to the maximum. Isolate russia completely ..take them out of swift network..Stop all trade with russia and force europeans to do the same and you will see the result. Putin will back down and there will be a regime change in russia. That should be our policy objective
5
It is a pity that the question of Debaltsevo wasn't resolved in Minsk. It seems that if it is truly surrounded Kiev would have to give up on it. So Poroshenko has a major interest in claiming it is not surrounded.
My impression is that the rebels have closed the kettle in the sense that no government troops can go in and out. However, it seems that that is mainly due to them controlling some villages near the access road. Their ability to walk on that road freely seems to be limited at best. They probably have some doubts how the OSCE - that oversees the truce but mostly has a pro-Kiev outlook - will decide and are for that reason playing on safe. As the Kiev government faces a similar dilemma it is attacking a lot there too.
Yet I don't share the pessimism of the article. It is not uncommon in conflicts for parties fighting to the last minute - and then seeing a truce to hold. One could even see the fighting as a sign that the parties take the truce seriously.
My impression is that the rebels have closed the kettle in the sense that no government troops can go in and out. However, it seems that that is mainly due to them controlling some villages near the access road. Their ability to walk on that road freely seems to be limited at best. They probably have some doubts how the OSCE - that oversees the truce but mostly has a pro-Kiev outlook - will decide and are for that reason playing on safe. As the Kiev government faces a similar dilemma it is attacking a lot there too.
Yet I don't share the pessimism of the article. It is not uncommon in conflicts for parties fighting to the last minute - and then seeing a truce to hold. One could even see the fighting as a sign that the parties take the truce seriously.
3
There´s only one viable way to stop Putin´s land-grabbing adventures in Europe. It deals with hard-core realism.
Putin thinks he has all the cards in this game, or so he thinks. The game changing would be for President Obama to show his jugular instinct, if he really has one.
Moreover, Obama should go to his European allies and flatly tell them that he is unwilling to risk American lives in Europe. since Russia´s military hardware and men dwarfs NATO´s. This mean that each NATO must increase their armed forces by four % of their G.N.P. If not, the U.S. will leave Europe.
Here is the rhetorical question: what will the allies to do? First, they´ll protest and then they will increase their military by four %. This means that the Ukraine´s problems are solved, and Putin once again will become very cooperative.
In a theoretical arms race between NATO and Russia, Putin will quickly see the future results of that no-win. He will abandon his geopolitics and we all will live happily ever after!
Putin thinks he has all the cards in this game, or so he thinks. The game changing would be for President Obama to show his jugular instinct, if he really has one.
Moreover, Obama should go to his European allies and flatly tell them that he is unwilling to risk American lives in Europe. since Russia´s military hardware and men dwarfs NATO´s. This mean that each NATO must increase their armed forces by four % of their G.N.P. If not, the U.S. will leave Europe.
Here is the rhetorical question: what will the allies to do? First, they´ll protest and then they will increase their military by four %. This means that the Ukraine´s problems are solved, and Putin once again will become very cooperative.
In a theoretical arms race between NATO and Russia, Putin will quickly see the future results of that no-win. He will abandon his geopolitics and we all will live happily ever after!
1
According to an article in the Wikipedia (*), the Crimea presently gets its water, gas and electricity from mainland Ukraine. If these essentials were cut off, Russia would have to supply them by sea or by pipelines, both of which would be very expensive and perhaps not even feasible. Also, from the same Wikipedia piece, the alternative of building a bridge across the Kerch Straight is technically beyond Russia's or anyone else's means.
Since it is safe to assume that Putin has no plans for returning control of the Crimea to Ukraine, he may be playing a long game, the ultimate goal of which is creating a land bridge from a pro-Russian buffer zone to the Crimea. Since such a zone would have to extend nearly all the way to Odessa, another 300 miles east-west, this would take another year or two to achieve with the present tactics. Alternately, Russia could simply march in. Either way, the Ukraine conflict is probably going to be with us for a long time.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
Since it is safe to assume that Putin has no plans for returning control of the Crimea to Ukraine, he may be playing a long game, the ultimate goal of which is creating a land bridge from a pro-Russian buffer zone to the Crimea. Since such a zone would have to extend nearly all the way to Odessa, another 300 miles east-west, this would take another year or two to achieve with the present tactics. Alternately, Russia could simply march in. Either way, the Ukraine conflict is probably going to be with us for a long time.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
2
Geoff, your are spot on. Until the Russians have a direct land access to the Crimea this conflict won't end. Someone needs to clue in Merkel, Obama, etc.
1
Since when have Merkel and Obama a clue...?
If they had a clue Putin would have been stopped before he got where he is now.
Putin will not stop he has an agenda called USSR
If they had a clue Putin would have been stopped before he got where he is now.
Putin will not stop he has an agenda called USSR
1
If it were not for the blankets and ready meals that the U.S has graciously given Ukraine to ward off the Russian Tanks and Artillery, Ukraine would really be in trouble. If the U.S. is not going to provide Ukraine defensive weapons the State Dept. Spokesman Psaki should just shut up
2
Unfortunately, I agree with you. But it is difficult to do without the EU willing to provide defensive weapons too. My opinion is we should call Russia's bluff and supply defensive weapons and hope the EU follows suit.
2
It just blows my mind reading the comments on this forum how many people seem to be itching for a war with Russia. The ignorance is just stunning.
12
I agree. Unfortunately, Obama's "reset" with Russia set the tone, in that the reset involves stonewalling Putin and refusing to talk to him and instead issue press releases saying we are going to arm the Ukrainians. Obama couldn't even be bothered to send someone to negotiate with Putin, Merkel and Hollande. What a wasted opportunity to engage in multi-lateral discourse.
3
It seems like neither Ukraine or Russia are innocent in terms of rogue nation. If most people see the two countries as similar and about the same, you'd think they stop fighting. Once the war is over, whenever that may be, they're both going be heavily fined. There has to be some punishment to both nations to discourage this from ever happening again. Ukraine needs to back down a little.
1
Putin is a lunatic on a murderous rampage destroying Ukrainian towns and killing Ukrainian citizens. Chancellor Merkel and President Holland tried their very best for a peaceful solution but how do you stop a brutal egomaniac who has no regard for humanity and hides behind his lies?
Russia doesn't want to close its border with Ukraine as it needs to resupply its proxy Russian fighters and for the same reason didn't agree to withdraw heavy weapons out of Ukraine.
I hope the ceasefire on Sunday will hold but Ukraine still need more defensive weapons.
Russia doesn't want to close its border with Ukraine as it needs to resupply its proxy Russian fighters and for the same reason didn't agree to withdraw heavy weapons out of Ukraine.
I hope the ceasefire on Sunday will hold but Ukraine still need more defensive weapons.
6
Are the ultra-nationalist militias trained in the use of "defensive weapons"?
I thought that they were more attune to ethnic-cleansing.
I thought that they were more attune to ethnic-cleansing.
2
Ukrainians have never practiced ethnic cleansing. They've always been on the other end of the stick.
3
This month, Feb 2015, would have been the last month of violently overthrown President Yanukovich's full term in office. Ballot boxes over bullets all the way!
9
It is so sad to listen to this Administration and its misleading blah blah about so many topics. It is only the Administration not speaking openly about the Russian war on the Ukraine; or have we all forgotten Russia taking over the Crimea, etc. I am surprised the Administration is not referring to Islamic terrorists and the "Ukrainian rebels" as "undocumented armed personnel". Our country is in entropy and the Administration is driving downhill with its foot on the gas.
4
Roosterman DC
"When Russia uses force to implement its will in international conflicts and gets away with it scot-free, let's call it what it is: appeasement."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not want to be critical of your comment but I used it as an example of our double standard in the U.S. We interfere in international conflicts all the time and we have invaded countries as recently as Iraq. I guess the difference is that we don't annex those countries.
We need to allow others to handle their own affairs and stop interfering. I am tired of policing the world and of our blatant hypocrisy. Our country's "exceptionalism" should be defined as we can do whatever we want but every one else has to get our permission or else.
"When Russia uses force to implement its will in international conflicts and gets away with it scot-free, let's call it what it is: appeasement."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not want to be critical of your comment but I used it as an example of our double standard in the U.S. We interfere in international conflicts all the time and we have invaded countries as recently as Iraq. I guess the difference is that we don't annex those countries.
We need to allow others to handle their own affairs and stop interfering. I am tired of policing the world and of our blatant hypocrisy. Our country's "exceptionalism" should be defined as we can do whatever we want but every one else has to get our permission or else.
8
Putin likes to have himself portrayed acting like a member of the congregation at Orthodox Christian services, at least at Christmas and Easter. He made a big production over his visit to the notorious death camps on the Solovki Islands, where an ancient monastery became a dumping ground for the political prisoners of the state whose demise he has publicly decried as the "worst catastrophe of the 20th century." So what about the 10th Commandment? Stop trying to capture more land for your criminal syndicate! The hypocrisy and essentially fraudulent posturing of the ROC (Putin's church) is exposed in this shameless brutality. Don't be so sure Hell does not exist, and you're not going to wind up there with your demented assault on your neighbors.
3
Since the "US" (Whatever that is) wasn't a party to the recent peace talks I'll assume this is just nonsense.
1
the europeans gave away the store. they have no spines.
1
I feel for the people of the Ukraine. Just get out of there. Let's quit fighting Chevron's battles and other interests in the Ukraine. Let's build solar, libraries, bridges and mass transit at home. Let's quit lining the pockets of lenders of wars and war profiteers. NATO has encroached too far and made the Russians nervous. Why must this go on? Check for yourself who is profitting from this and it is not about bad Putin versus righteous U.S. or even good Putin versus evil West. It's about money and control of resources. ALWAYS. If you can't find it, look a little harder.
12
The Ukraine is not part NATO. We have no treaty with them. Merkel and Hollande didn't even tell the White house they were going to meet with Putin. They have warned Washington to not send weapons there. We should listen to them and quit making statements about the spirit of the agreement we weren't ask to be apart of.
6
How disingenuous to say Merkel and Hollande didn't tell Obama they were going to meet with Putin. It was not all over the foreign press, but also in this very publication for days beforehand. If Obama can drop what he's doing to take an entourage to pay respects to a dead Saudi King, and Kerry can drop what he's doing in India to belatedly show up in Paris after the terrorism there, then Obama could have and should have stopped what he was doing and gone with his fellow NATO leaders for this important diplomatic initiative. Instead, he is stonewalling Putin like a petulant child.
1
For both East and West, Ukraine is a pawn. This is nothing new. The Russians, the Poles, and the Germans have all ruled Ukraine. It has little history as a sovereign nation. The current conflict is about us and Putin. And, as bad as Putin is, he's better than any Russian ruler other than Gorbachev, dating back 100 years. Our purpose should be to limit Putin's aggression, but with great caution.. All-powerful Russian rulers disappear overnight after fundamental failures. Considering Russia's economic problems, Ukraine could be fundamental for Putin. And we don't want to find out who is waiting in the wings.
7
Why not ? Putin is pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel now. How much more of this antagonism can the rest of the world watch as the innocents die because of Putin's greed. How much more has the world got to put up with the constant antagonism from air infringement infractions after flight 007 was shot down by Russia opp's accidentally thinking it was spying. Russia has acted like the bear for too long and the world now knows the intense oppression and brutal anger Putin has. It will not stand to take it much longer.
4
The mental contortions of Putin's apologists get stranger and stranger.
Putin with Poroshenko, Merkel, and Hollande signed (as in ink) an agreement calling for withdrawal of all foreign troops and weapons from E. Ukraine.
What foreign troops and weapons Putin agreed needed to be withdrawn? French? German?
We've all known Puitn for a little liar he is, but what about the rest of the world calling spade a spade?
Putin with Poroshenko, Merkel, and Hollande signed (as in ink) an agreement calling for withdrawal of all foreign troops and weapons from E. Ukraine.
What foreign troops and weapons Putin agreed needed to be withdrawn? French? German?
We've all known Puitn for a little liar he is, but what about the rest of the world calling spade a spade?
16
A commenter predicts:
"I think Obama is going to send defensive weapons to Ukraine."
We will not send any weapons -- defensive, offensive or other. Six months from now, many who now predict otherwise will find it hard to believe they ever predicted that.
This one will end with a whimper, not with a bang. As it should.
"I think Obama is going to send defensive weapons to Ukraine."
We will not send any weapons -- defensive, offensive or other. Six months from now, many who now predict otherwise will find it hard to believe they ever predicted that.
This one will end with a whimper, not with a bang. As it should.
5
Blood and iron decide the fate of nations, and so it will be with the Ukraine. Unless we are willing to risk thermonuclear war to prevent a Russian land link to the Crimea, we should stop bluffing and throw in our cards now. We don't have half as many tanks within 1,000 miles of Mariupol as the Russians have within 200.
6
Not sure we would need tanks. Our Air Force is superior and tanks are sitting ducks when faced with air power.
2
One the conditions of the Minsk cease-fire clearly confirms the role of Russia:
'Ukrainian state to provide humanitarian aid; restore full economic links with Donetsk/Luhansk, including welfare payments and banking services; Ukrainian state to help develop Donetsk/Luhansk and regions' co-operation with Russia.'
Russian authorities insist they can't control what happens on the ground yet they are the main and only party representing the rebels in Minsk and a specified role is required by the Ukrainian state's efforts to help develop Donetsk/Luhansk "in cooperation with Russia".
The veil of fiction has dropped and the true protagonist has come forward to deal on behalf of the pro-Russian Rebels. The rebels are committed to a long war backed-up by Russian resources. The economic rehabilitation of Donbas in co-venture between Kiev and Putin's Kremlin is not likely to work.
'Ukrainian state to provide humanitarian aid; restore full economic links with Donetsk/Luhansk, including welfare payments and banking services; Ukrainian state to help develop Donetsk/Luhansk and regions' co-operation with Russia.'
Russian authorities insist they can't control what happens on the ground yet they are the main and only party representing the rebels in Minsk and a specified role is required by the Ukrainian state's efforts to help develop Donetsk/Luhansk "in cooperation with Russia".
The veil of fiction has dropped and the true protagonist has come forward to deal on behalf of the pro-Russian Rebels. The rebels are committed to a long war backed-up by Russian resources. The economic rehabilitation of Donbas in co-venture between Kiev and Putin's Kremlin is not likely to work.
3
Let's be totally honest here. Nothing absolutely nothing will deter the separatists. So we can wring our hands, get the usual United Nations condemnation (that's really solved this problem as well as the myriad of others) and listen to Obama and Kerry pontificate. Excuse my cynicism, but if history has taught us anything it is simply that aggression only understands brute force.
15
There is no way that the west will use "brute force" in any form in Ukraine. The west, especially Europe, is so divided, its member states so pettily selfish, its leaders so preoccupied with being reelected, that it can't even agree on how to implement other tools in their disposal, especially extremely severe economic sanctions which will break Russia's will for expansionism. What has been done so far is pathetic.
Considering the European system which requires consensus by all countries, even a beggar of a country like Greece who now elected a leftist government who, for some unfathomable reason, feels close to Russia, can derail any decision. When you have a bunch of selfish, divided cowards facing Putin, you can be sure whose interest will prevail when the dust settle down.
Considering the European system which requires consensus by all countries, even a beggar of a country like Greece who now elected a leftist government who, for some unfathomable reason, feels close to Russia, can derail any decision. When you have a bunch of selfish, divided cowards facing Putin, you can be sure whose interest will prevail when the dust settle down.
1
that's because they are acting on behave of Putin and getting their pay from Russia. They are just doing what they are told.
4
My mother went back to her village in 1945, as a returning refugee, in what had been Transcarpthia in western Czechoslovakia, but which had been absorbed into the Ukraine during the War. She found Russian soldiers living in what had been her home years before. She asked the Captain in charge when his troops would be returning to Russia. The captain politely responded "Gozpazha (Mrs.), only a crab walks backward."
The American idea of history is generally to forget it. The German and French governments this week were Putin's Chamberlains.
I don't think the Russians will leave Western Ukraine. Why should they? They know us too well.
Forget nukes. This is conventional warfare. Let's just remember what happened the last time a tyrant, with nothing more than conventional weapons, was loose in Europe.
The American idea of history is generally to forget it. The German and French governments this week were Putin's Chamberlains.
I don't think the Russians will leave Western Ukraine. Why should they? They know us too well.
Forget nukes. This is conventional warfare. Let's just remember what happened the last time a tyrant, with nothing more than conventional weapons, was loose in Europe.
30
Irwin- that's in Eastern not Westen Czechoslovakia
1
Your mother's village has bounced back among five countries. For the first time, in 1991. it became part of an independent Ukraine. Otherwise, there's Hungary and Czechoslovakia, and Romania and maybe even Detroit. Your mother wasn't born in free Ukraine and when she went back it was Soviet. To suggest that Americans need to fight to maintain its Ukrainian essence is nonsensical. And to accuse the US of appeasement for standing aside to see whether your mother's ping ball village goes over the net for the 100th time far exaggerates the role of America in your mother's corner of the world.
1
I think Obama is going to send defensive weapons to Ukraine. He cannot afford another 'red line' skipping after the notorious one in Syria - unless Putin comes up with something really tempting - like the chemical weapons agreement then. Putin is not diplomatic. He uses these summits as moves on his autistic chessboard. Since he only understands power, he should be met with power, not necessarily military, but really painful in other ways. He is bluffing and I think the US strategy will outsmart him. Russians may be better at chess, but Americans are better at poker.
39
OK, and then Russia will up the ante and so another major war is brewing. Russia is also closer to the from and can resupply 10 times faster than the US can. This is all for popular consumption.
5
In fact, on the world stage, Russians per se have never been particularly good at chess. This is another myth about the Motherland that Russian nationalists like to try to propagate. The last time Moscow was able to crow about communism creating chess-masters was during the heady days of the Soviet Union in the 50s.
Even then, however, Boris Spassky was a product of the relative liberal, Europeanised culture of Saint Petersburg (at the time renamed Leningrad), in Finnic Ingria, a far cry from the grim, imperial impulses of the Kremlin. As soon as he could, Spassky sensibly decamped to France. Tigran Petrosian was born to Armenian parents in Tiflis, Georgia. David Bronstein was born in Bila Tserkva, Ukraine, to Jewish parents. Moreover, the great Garry Kasparov was born in Baku Azerbaijan to a Jewish father and an Armenian mother.
Putin is old-school KGB. He is a master of the mask, of the bluff, the huff and the puff. Too many Americans and too many Europeans these days scare too easily. Put Putin and all the scaredy-cats together, and the bully on the block can run riot.
Even then, however, Boris Spassky was a product of the relative liberal, Europeanised culture of Saint Petersburg (at the time renamed Leningrad), in Finnic Ingria, a far cry from the grim, imperial impulses of the Kremlin. As soon as he could, Spassky sensibly decamped to France. Tigran Petrosian was born to Armenian parents in Tiflis, Georgia. David Bronstein was born in Bila Tserkva, Ukraine, to Jewish parents. Moreover, the great Garry Kasparov was born in Baku Azerbaijan to a Jewish father and an Armenian mother.
Putin is old-school KGB. He is a master of the mask, of the bluff, the huff and the puff. Too many Americans and too many Europeans these days scare too easily. Put Putin and all the scaredy-cats together, and the bully on the block can run riot.
4
"Red line skipping" is a Republican narrative device with no evidence in reality. Obama is working variables that are not confined to this "tempest" in the Ukraine. Supplying weapons or talking about supplying weapons has effect in Berlin as much as it has in Moscow. If Putin only understands power, he is impaired.
1
Putin has proven over and over that he can't be trusted, but there go Western leaders trusting him again. Putin is a liar. He's always been one. Why do we treat him like someone with moral fiber. He's an amoral bain on the civilized world.
20
Yes, but the Western leader are beacon of righteousness and truth. Give me a break
2
And what was GW Bush, a boy scout?
2
In the 1985 Warsaw Pact (signed by Reagan and Gorbachev), NATO agreed it would never move "one inch" closer to the USSR. As Gorbachev said when the promise was broken with impunity, "You can't trust the Americans." America has always been a liar and a bane on the civilized world. Why do you think we've not won a war in seventy years, nor intend to. We will just keep lying to manufacture consent to change regimes to suit us, while destroying every country we attack, and the profiteers will get richer and richer.
A skeptical reader demands:
"Proof, can we please have some proof? I'd really like a few satellite images of the missile buildup."
Ms. Psaki said the US was considering releasing some evidence this time, but it turns out the Russians don't know we have satellites up there taking pictures, and we don't want them to find out. She said we could take her word for it, though -- she wouldn't just make this up.
"Proof, can we please have some proof? I'd really like a few satellite images of the missile buildup."
Ms. Psaki said the US was considering releasing some evidence this time, but it turns out the Russians don't know we have satellites up there taking pictures, and we don't want them to find out. She said we could take her word for it, though -- she wouldn't just make this up.
20
Of course Putin isn't supplying the "separatists." They're getting their tanks, Grad rockets, artillery, shells, rifles, grenades, uniforms, food, fuel, etc., etc., etc. by redeeming all those box tops they've been saving. Any rational person can see that.
13
Leaders cannot resolve this crisis - they are the cause of it.
There is no rational explanation for what leaders of Capitalism do other than to increase the tension under which People work and live and aggravate the need for MORE.
When the result is only more for Capitalists, and less for People, society reconnoiters. That is what we are doing now.
Leaders cannot resolve this crisis - only People - and the first thing that Leaders have to do is listen to their People - and humbly comply with their wishes.
There is no rational explanation for what leaders of Capitalism do other than to increase the tension under which People work and live and aggravate the need for MORE.
When the result is only more for Capitalists, and less for People, society reconnoiters. That is what we are doing now.
Leaders cannot resolve this crisis - only People - and the first thing that Leaders have to do is listen to their People - and humbly comply with their wishes.
11
Everyone should notice that Putin initially, last year, said that he was concerned because there were Russia-speaking people living in Eastern Ukraine.
As we now see, his own military has destroyed their homes and killed these same people. Putin is not just a liar, but a widespread destroyer of even Russian people living in Ukraine. How can Russians living in Russia now trust him? They cannot, And they will be paying dearly for Putin's horrors.
As we now see, his own military has destroyed their homes and killed these same people. Putin is not just a liar, but a widespread destroyer of even Russian people living in Ukraine. How can Russians living in Russia now trust him? They cannot, And they will be paying dearly for Putin's horrors.
26
Russian people can trust Putin. Putinistas developed social engineering and propaganda tools to such perfection, that so called "Russian people" (200 different nationalities constantly shuffled and mixing among themselves in this cauldron) are kind of these AMC(?) walking dead, driven only with urge to gnaw.
2
And again I ask, where is the proof of Russian involvement. We can photograph a child on a tricycle from space but cant's provide proof of so called columns of Russian military aid.
1
Any agreement signed by Putin iis not even worth the paper it is printed on. If Angela has not figured this out by now she should turn in her frequent flyer card.
26
Pretty funny. Since when have agreements signed by the U.S. held for more than a few decades? We've backstabbed so many allies in the modern era that the world has become sheer chaos.
23
Just ask the native Americans...
2
She is looking for the quickest, easiest path to cut Ukraine loose and let Putin devour the country... so she and her patrons in the German industrial complex can return to business as usual as soon as possible.
1
The alternative media is saying that the US is the provocateur here. Don't know who to believe, but I sure DO NOT trust the US government to tell the plain truth anymore because we don't really know who the US government is working for anymore, but we do know that more and more, they are not working for the average citizens of the US, instead favoring the plutocrats. The basic policy of the US government seems to be: We're lying to protect you from the horrible truth.
43
you mean "Alternative" as in "Alternative Reality" from Moscow?
2
Makes sense for sure. So, following your logic, if the U.S. says the Russians are the aggressors, they must actually not be. The horrible truth then is that the Putin and his crew are peace loving, democracy promoting humanitarians. Strong tradition of that in Russia.
5
And the US has no history of meddling in the affairs of other countries in order to serve the bankist masters. So yeah, there are many sides to this story, not just the same old American good guys, vs. evil guy du jour heart string pulling narrative.
Have the plutocrats in the US earned the privilege to pull the heartstrings of patriotic nationalism? I think they've lost that privilege.
Have the plutocrats in the US earned the privilege to pull the heartstrings of patriotic nationalism? I think they've lost that privilege.
1
Let's not get embroiled in something that Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande deems they can solve. So be it.
30
Why doesn't the US just stay out of it. It has a poor record in resolving situations like this peacefully, and the arms lobby just sees it as an excuse to make more profits. Germany and France can negotiate with Russia and hopefully bring this to an end peacefully.
21
How about the Korean War? Did not we save the world from the North Korea twice the size? Incidentally, Russia was the force behind the North attack, too.
I asked my German friends what Europe would do after Russia shot down MH 17. Their reply, " Nothing." So there it is. Merkel has nothing to work with, and she knows it.
Putin can cut the gas fueling middle Europe's economy in an hour, and he knows it. Until Europe completes a switch to non-Russian energy supplies, it is little more than a puppet in a deadly dance.
Save the ink. Europe will not lift a finger. And everyone knows it.
Putin can cut the gas fueling middle Europe's economy in an hour, and he knows it. Until Europe completes a switch to non-Russian energy supplies, it is little more than a puppet in a deadly dance.
Save the ink. Europe will not lift a finger. And everyone knows it.
9
I guess Europe at least wants to make sure that it was Russians who shot down MH17. Should we blame them for that?
1
And isn't it just coincidental that Joe Biden's son works for Ukraine's largest gas producer? I wonder what Victoria Nuland would have to say about that.
Ukraine is no match for the modern Russian army. The cease fire is only on paper and there is no reason for Putin to abide by it; as the west has shown its unwillingness to aide Ukraine's fight. Once Russia seizes more territory ensuring a clear route to Crimea, the hostilities will cease. Putin played his cards well. His thuggish, brutish and quad-pedal demeanor defeated societal and diplomatic norms of the 21 century. As irrational as Putin is, his myopic and brutish qualities plays well in Russia and created fits to the EU and US. Diplomacy is a language Putin doesn’t understand and is not in his arsenal. Actions followed by brute force is a language he excels in and respects. Perhaps it is time for the West speak the language Putin understands and respects.
12
Advice to readers of comments. If someone commenting supports Russia's annexation of Crimea, beware. Putin admits (no, now boasts) he sent unmarked armed troops into Crimea, and organized a referendum within weeks, and people who think this is ok have a shaky relationship with rule of law. Process is key in democracy. It promotes acceptance of results and trust. Think about the agenda of anyone who takes the position that what happened in Crimea was just (skipping the important step of a real referendum -- Scotland's was a couple of years in the making).
10
Lest we forget the 298 soles killed by Rebels/Russians operating a Russian supplied ground-to-air BUK missile launcher. The Russians released a phony 'photo-shopped' picture showing a Ukrainian jet flying at a 45 degree angle from the distant MH17 aircraft. The faked photo was shrugged-off by western leaders as a stunt by Putin to convince locals (Russians) that the Ukrainians are evil and only Russia is interested in peace and human aid. The story is old and tiresome and continues to fade to black as lies are piled onto more lies and denials about Russian troops on the ground in Donbas.
6
I haven't heard any evidence that Russians were indeed culprits. I think it would be reasonable to wait until formal announcement. But beside should Americans be so judgmental having on their conscience 290 iranian souls?
Not surprised here. Russia's plan was always to do something to stall any weapons by making a fake deal with the West while allowing their separatist the time to take over whatever land they can before any such deadline.
10
The mess that the neocons have created in Ukraine is splitting that country apart and may lead to a global confrontation. President Obama should resist the call for arming the coup leaders in Kiev and should join Germany and France for a negotiated settlement in Ukraine that will bring peace to the country and to Europe. The warmongers should be told to calm down or volunteer to go and fight as partisans. They should leave the rest of America alone.
30
If there was a Coup in Kiev there was a rebel take-down of Donbas backed by Russian resources and troops. The Kiev Coup was a home-brew and all the leadership now are Ukrainians. In Donbas the leaders are proxy Ukrainians: ethnic Russians born in Ukraine and Russian professional soldiers and commanders who act like Ukrainians. You and others have repeated the Kiev Coup story that originates from Mr. Putin and his cohorts. This is the same guy who repeatedly claimed there are no Russian soldiers or equipment provided to the Rebels. Putin is a master of the Big Lie in the Stalin tradition. His attitude is condescending and an insult to westerners and a direct assault on decency in foreign affairs and relations between states.
1
Great, and what happens when Russia starts to suport all those who do not like the US?
How about the Iran-backed houthy militia in Yemen, which is only a few hundred kilometers away from the Saudi oil fields? What if they were to get some precision missiles with which to hit those fields and equipment to support a Shiite uprising in Saudi Arabia? It would be enough to potentially trigger a global economic depression.
The US is playing a very dangerous game here.
I can think of plenty other situations that could really hurt US interests.
How about the Iran-backed houthy militia in Yemen, which is only a few hundred kilometers away from the Saudi oil fields? What if they were to get some precision missiles with which to hit those fields and equipment to support a Shiite uprising in Saudi Arabia? It would be enough to potentially trigger a global economic depression.
The US is playing a very dangerous game here.
I can think of plenty other situations that could really hurt US interests.
11
"Great, and what happens when Russia starts to suport all those who do not like the US?"
Starts? Russia has been doing that everywhere, through its vetoes in the 'Security Council', with China shamefully trailing after it. These two regimes' imagination is limited to their envy of American leadership. They will never achieve any real respect on the international scene (some fear, yes) if they don't contribute anything to the world but oil and cheap goods.
Starts? Russia has been doing that everywhere, through its vetoes in the 'Security Council', with China shamefully trailing after it. These two regimes' imagination is limited to their envy of American leadership. They will never achieve any real respect on the international scene (some fear, yes) if they don't contribute anything to the world but oil and cheap goods.
5
Well this is already happening. A major power shift in the MIddle East will send energy prices soaring. Very well observed
1
You are right, how dare Russians to use their right of veto? It is exclusively prerogative of America.
2
Mr Putin is a master of lying, cheating and stealing - pity the Russians, they have no say and can only hold out for hope in their future. In the interim Mr Putin play a dangerous game of Russian roulette that already taken thousand of lives.
21
Remember the words of French President Francois Hollande, perhaps ten days ago. He was arguing in favor of not piling more sanctions on Russia and, perhaps even easing somewhat on what was already in place. He said something to the effect of Russia doesn't have troops in Eastern Ukraine. and that Vladimir Putin told him, and he believes him.
As that Ukrainian soldier in the pillbox said: "This pause is not for us". That was the two day delay between the signing of the peace treaty and it actually going into effect. That especially directs attention to the point of contention, as to Ukraine wanting to use the respective troop battle lines from the original peace treat; but, Putin wanted to use the "current" opens, which he has obviously been using the pause to extend.
Never trust Vladimir Putin and never, never listen to Monsieur Hollande again.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
As that Ukrainian soldier in the pillbox said: "This pause is not for us". That was the two day delay between the signing of the peace treaty and it actually going into effect. That especially directs attention to the point of contention, as to Ukraine wanting to use the respective troop battle lines from the original peace treat; but, Putin wanted to use the "current" opens, which he has obviously been using the pause to extend.
Never trust Vladimir Putin and never, never listen to Monsieur Hollande again.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
15
In a shocking miscalculation, American political elites realy did thing Russia would stand by and do nothing as the US backed a coup on Russia's border, attempting to take core trade, geographic, military, and economic interests from Russia, and setting up an existential military threat to Russia 300 miles from Moscow. This involved overthrowing a duly elected government, but the US never shies from that.
Unsurprisingly, the competent and intelligent, if autocratic Russian political elites responded forcefully, defending the lands and peoples closest to the Russian border, along with Russian security and all those interests.
Appallingly, the American temper tantrum included accusing Russia of "aggression", laughably, in defending its people, security, and near interests, from American imperialists on the other side of the planet.
Attempting to take Ukraine through soft force was a stupid idea, and revealing in that American arrogance and overconfidence were exposed.
Unsurprisingly, the competent and intelligent, if autocratic Russian political elites responded forcefully, defending the lands and peoples closest to the Russian border, along with Russian security and all those interests.
Appallingly, the American temper tantrum included accusing Russia of "aggression", laughably, in defending its people, security, and near interests, from American imperialists on the other side of the planet.
Attempting to take Ukraine through soft force was a stupid idea, and revealing in that American arrogance and overconfidence were exposed.
37
Repeating over and over that it was a US coup doesn't make it so. You can't from the outside convince people to stand in protest through the winter -- it took corrupt, criminal ex-president Yanukovych to do that. It's insulting to the brave Ukrainians to claim they didn't understand what they were doing -- they knew full well this might be their last chance -- the noose was tightening. Yanukovych was controlling every aspect of life - courts, parliament, police, etc.
19
Maidan and Donbas are related events but mutually exclusive. To suggest that the US incited Donbas rebels is a stretch. I think the US could see that Ukraine was a basket case lead by a Russian puppet and his cronies that were stealing the country. To suggest that the U.S. should not have supported Maidan given the divergence of forces in play and the Kleptomaniacs ruling Kiev and the snipers. As I recall, John Kerry passed several notes to the Puppet President to manage the crisi unfolding in Maidan and, specifically, to stop killing protestors. The Puppet chose to leave town and head for Russia.
You can believe what you want but you may consider the sequence of events before falling victim to that old saw about the USA Secret Services buggery in the business of Ukraine. You may also think that Russian (FSB) agents crawling all over Kiev and Donbas were tourists? The Russians are easily thought to be Ukrainians much like Canadians walking in most cities in northern states would not be noticed as suspicious.
I think that one result of this crisis is that the Russian shills are out in force cramming-up the opinions and comments sections with propaganda. Too bad that freedom of speech and sanctity of life is not similarly well respected in Putin's realm.
You can believe what you want but you may consider the sequence of events before falling victim to that old saw about the USA Secret Services buggery in the business of Ukraine. You may also think that Russian (FSB) agents crawling all over Kiev and Donbas were tourists? The Russians are easily thought to be Ukrainians much like Canadians walking in most cities in northern states would not be noticed as suspicious.
I think that one result of this crisis is that the Russian shills are out in force cramming-up the opinions and comments sections with propaganda. Too bad that freedom of speech and sanctity of life is not similarly well respected in Putin's realm.
15
putin has made crucial mistakes at every step of this process and continues to do so. he won't last out his current term.
2
Apparently, the U.S. can't take the prospect of peace in Ukaine. Should one ask, for the umpteenth time: where's the proof or should we just trust what the Hegemon says?
23
And the Ukraine and US have already been found out using photos taken years ago in South Osettia to use as proof for this incursion of Russian tanks. It is just another big lie to try and say the the Russian army has invaded the Ukraine.
1
We have little leverage in this dispute. However, that means we should be silent. When you can't or won't do anything whining just looks weak. Is anyone surprised that an agreement that will take place X days in the future inspires those with the upper hand to aggressively improve their battlefield position on the ground before the "agreement" takes effect?
As Maurice asserted an army of lions led by a deer is weaker than an army of deer led by a lion!
As Maurice asserted an army of lions led by a deer is weaker than an army of deer led by a lion!
4
Ah-the "myth of Minsk" strikes again. What a charade by Putin. Western leaders well know Putin will continue his aggression but they have few alternatives. Eventually, there must be a red line for Putin, set in place by European leaders, and the US. Putin knows well that there will be little blowback for his plan to dominate Europe, and maybe more. It is time for sanctions that have a big bite-economically and politically. They will not deter Putin but will demonstrate a willingness to recognize that Russia is a serious threat to world peace. For countries which are invading other countries, recalling ambassadors and reducing embassy may be an appropriate notice of disapproval. Russia is looking more and more like the Stalin era without communism. Now they have Putinism. Is there any real difference?
17
First sound answer I read tonight. In how many days will it be too late to put your recommendations is force?
1
Shocking. Time for Merkel and Obama to call for another meeting.
3
People, who were expecting something good from this latest round of talks and signed papers, were only fooling themselves.
Mr. Putin knows very well that the west is not going to start a war with Russia, or supply Ukraine with offensive weapons. Besides, while those weapons (offensive or defensive) were being shipped and Ukrainian soldiers trained to use them, would he just sit back and wait?
Russia's army and its weaponry are its only strength. The economy with its technology its weaknesses.
What we should do is something like Fed's QE was to the US economy; something unexpected, a lightning from clear blue sky; Big and Dramatic move that sucks the air out.
Mr. Putin knows very well that the west is not going to start a war with Russia, or supply Ukraine with offensive weapons. Besides, while those weapons (offensive or defensive) were being shipped and Ukrainian soldiers trained to use them, would he just sit back and wait?
Russia's army and its weaponry are its only strength. The economy with its technology its weaknesses.
What we should do is something like Fed's QE was to the US economy; something unexpected, a lightning from clear blue sky; Big and Dramatic move that sucks the air out.
3
QE didn't work.
""We simply cannot do this physically, because Russia is not a participant in this conflict.”"
One can tell a lot by the political culture in a country by scrutinizing the manner of lying by its officials. Russian lying, for example, is tragicomical as its politician and aparatschik's alike treat the truth as a traceable commodity without intrinsic value. As long as the US does not step in for real, providing actual military assistance, Putin will take the West for credulous fools.
The clearest similar example is probably the Bosnian war where the only effect of the myriad EU resolutions and pleas was to make Serbs laugh. Until Clinton stepped in - that's when the Serbs stopped laughing and started to run.
One can tell a lot by the political culture in a country by scrutinizing the manner of lying by its officials. Russian lying, for example, is tragicomical as its politician and aparatschik's alike treat the truth as a traceable commodity without intrinsic value. As long as the US does not step in for real, providing actual military assistance, Putin will take the West for credulous fools.
The clearest similar example is probably the Bosnian war where the only effect of the myriad EU resolutions and pleas was to make Serbs laugh. Until Clinton stepped in - that's when the Serbs stopped laughing and started to run.
15
“We are confident that these are Russian military, not separatist systems.”
Finally we have the proof and we can shove it into the Russian faces! All those billion dollar satellites, radars and global surveillance systems payed off!
Oh wait, wait, there is no mention of evidence again is there? Its just that Ms. Psaki is "confident". She doesn't trow accusations on the floor just like that, oh no! She does it with confidence! Well you know maybe its better to have confident secret evidence then fabricated disclosed evidence that gets us invading another country. I guess. If only she would share with us a morsel of what makes her confident, you know so we and the Europeans can be also as assured.
" three children were reported killed by artillery in the rebel-held town of Horlivka. Shells struck a hospital in Donetsk,"
Now I bet the above is reported in Russia, focused on it, and thus they are confident at who the bad guys are as well.
Its so good to be confident all around. Is it not?
Finally we have the proof and we can shove it into the Russian faces! All those billion dollar satellites, radars and global surveillance systems payed off!
Oh wait, wait, there is no mention of evidence again is there? Its just that Ms. Psaki is "confident". She doesn't trow accusations on the floor just like that, oh no! She does it with confidence! Well you know maybe its better to have confident secret evidence then fabricated disclosed evidence that gets us invading another country. I guess. If only she would share with us a morsel of what makes her confident, you know so we and the Europeans can be also as assured.
" three children were reported killed by artillery in the rebel-held town of Horlivka. Shells struck a hospital in Donetsk,"
Now I bet the above is reported in Russia, focused on it, and thus they are confident at who the bad guys are as well.
Its so good to be confident all around. Is it not?
24
Read Pritchard's comment above for clarity and "circumstantial evidence". I didn't know that a civil war required probative evidence before a court before a news release can be issued. What would you say about Putin's evidence about the downing of MH17? Or, do you think 'photo-shop pictures are reliable evidence?
2
Ceasefire starts Sat at midnight! That says it all. In the meantime Putin's thugs will try - and are trying - to take more land and more lives. Russia most certainly did invade Ukraine using proxy forces. Putin charged into Crimea and this is an extension of that invasion. (Did all of you naysayers below miss that event?) Without arms supplied by Putin, there would be no serious rebel resistance. We should arm Ukraine and increase the fiscal sanctions.
16
I'm sorry, but "a line of rebel tanks?" If the Ukrainian army can't deploy heavy armor, where, exactly, are these separatists getting theirs from? I know they seized some Ukrainian military equipment, but this is clearly way above and beyond whatever they stole. And trained tanks crews? Really? It's just ridiculous to assume that this anything by a Russian sponsored invasion, complete with Russian military equipment and Russian soldiers supplementing the rebel forces.
31
People see only what they want to see unfortunately. Well that and common sense and logic is becoming extinct.
2
None of this is pretty to look at. None of it. Russia, be it under a czar, Stalin, or Putin, is not subtle in the way it throws its weight around. But, how Ukraine, of all places, became the place where the neo-cons want to show Russia who's boss is mind-boggling, unless the goal is to create a new cold war with Russia, and/or to make Obama and anyone whose party loyalty begins with a D look weak and vacillating. This nostalgia for an invincible America that would prevent Russia from acting as she is accused of doing here is a myth. Yes, the U.S.A. is the strongest military power in the world. But our military power has always had its limits; in China when the Communists took over; in Korea when we tried to occupy the entire peninsula; in Eastern Europe, when the Russians rolled into Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968; in Vietnam; and most recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. And the major reason for these so-called failures in so many places since the end of WWII is that the decision was made, too often later than sooner, that vital U.S. interests did not justify the costs of anything that might be called success or victory. We stood up and took on all risks of ultimate war when necessary: in Berlin when Khrushchev gave us an ultimatum to leave, and in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Our victory in the Cold War did not give us power in the parts of the world where we never before had power. That's the lesson the neo-cons don't seem to have learned.
9
You're using the word "neo-con" to preclude thinking. One doesn't have to be a "neo-con" to work with our allies to increase sanctions on Russia and--if necessary--supply defensive arms to Ukraine. Russia is about to sink into the quagmire of protracted partisan warfare (something the Ukrainians can be very good at). That's the only "diplomacy" Russians understand.
3
i find it interesting that russia invades a peaveful country, inflicts massive damage, kills thousands of people that committed no crime other than being in front of the russian army, russia lies about this, everyone knows russia is lying, including Deja Vue, but don't blame the murders for this, blame america. some people were born brain dead. Deja vue is the poster boy or girl for being born braine dead. Obama and his administration are neo-cons? give me a definition of what a neo-con is. i support Ukraine and want the US to step up and honor our committment from the Budapest Memorandum when we, the US, the UK, and Russia guaranteed the borders and sovereignty of Ukraine. Naturally russia violated this agreement, but then russia violates all agreements. and we have a president sitting and wringing his hands dithering. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, Obama dithers while Ukraine burns.
6
I think a war of attrition is what the neocons believe is winnable. You do recall that the Russians had a bit of hard time in Afghanistan and Georgia? Just because Ukraine is op, skip and jump doesn't make it that much easier to neutralize unless the Russians are willing to Nuke the place - which would be a last option. I think with adequate supplies, training and financing of food and other essential supplies, Ukrainians will fight back harder than Afghanistan and Georgia. And the war of attrition circled by embargo will eventually lead to strange bedfellows - North Korea, China and Russia with a few Middle East tribes, the west has the resources to outlast the Russian-lead possible escalation of war against Ukraine. There are 5 million people in Donbas and ~ 40 million outside of this enclave that support the Kiev govt. I bet on the west and Kiev in the long-run. And I think the next Coup de tat will be at the Kremlin when the Oligarchs realize that Putin is very very bad for business.
3
That September agreement in Minsk, that didn't work out so well because Putin or Putler, as many in Russia call him(privately), ignored it. This is essentially the same agreement. Europe is the good cop, the US is the bad cop. We threaten to arm Ukraine, Europe threatens sanctions which have effectively hurt ordinary Russians more than the multimillion dollar oligarchy that runs the world's largest nation. As partners, Europe and the US want the same outcome. I think it was wise for the US to raise a ruckus about the Russians going for a quick land grab right before the ceasefire. We didn't say we would give arms. We said we were thinking about it. Wise play. Shake them up. Take the deal. Abide by the terms which will, unfortunately, allow Mr. Putin to rig some elections and annex those eastern areas that he now controls.
9
@dudley:
"... multimillion dollar oligarchy that runs the world's largest nation."
Multimillion dollar?
Try "multi-billion". And, by "multi", don't think in terms of two, three or even five billon. Think in terms of "scores", both in size (twenty, forty, sixty) and how it was accumulated. "Scores", as in "take scores". Used in a sentence "I take scores." A professional thief's expression, synonymous with, "I rob a bank", or, "I rob a jewelry store", except that in this case "I robbed the Russian nation", would be more appropriate.
Wealth inside post-Soviet Russia is steeply over-concentrated, reducing more than 160 million Russians to new forms of serfdom. Worse, their wealth was literally stolen right out from under them during Yeltsin's presidency. President Putin, a principal beneficiary, invented or created nothing of economic value yet he managed to accumulate a fortune greater than Jobs' or Gates', of Apple and Microsoft respectively; and very quickly. Putin reminds me of "Poppa Doc" Duvalier of Haiti, Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire and Jean Bedelle Bokassa, an African president who had himself crowned emperor. Their governments were murderous police states protecting tiny entrenched elites that robbed their people blind; criminal enterprises.
Understand all that, you understand Putin and his designs on Ukraine. The war he needs as a distraction to cement his rule. Ukraine as a failed state protects his own, and should he conquer it's another big score for him.
"... multimillion dollar oligarchy that runs the world's largest nation."
Multimillion dollar?
Try "multi-billion". And, by "multi", don't think in terms of two, three or even five billon. Think in terms of "scores", both in size (twenty, forty, sixty) and how it was accumulated. "Scores", as in "take scores". Used in a sentence "I take scores." A professional thief's expression, synonymous with, "I rob a bank", or, "I rob a jewelry store", except that in this case "I robbed the Russian nation", would be more appropriate.
Wealth inside post-Soviet Russia is steeply over-concentrated, reducing more than 160 million Russians to new forms of serfdom. Worse, their wealth was literally stolen right out from under them during Yeltsin's presidency. President Putin, a principal beneficiary, invented or created nothing of economic value yet he managed to accumulate a fortune greater than Jobs' or Gates', of Apple and Microsoft respectively; and very quickly. Putin reminds me of "Poppa Doc" Duvalier of Haiti, Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire and Jean Bedelle Bokassa, an African president who had himself crowned emperor. Their governments were murderous police states protecting tiny entrenched elites that robbed their people blind; criminal enterprises.
Understand all that, you understand Putin and his designs on Ukraine. The war he needs as a distraction to cement his rule. Ukraine as a failed state protects his own, and should he conquer it's another big score for him.
1
There is simple reason why Ukraine's current government is referred to as "pro Western," and NEVER as "pro-democracy."
Sorry, U.S policy stinks on this one...
Sorry, U.S policy stinks on this one...
75
You are absolutely right - the cry to support an "incipient democracy" is superseded by the need for anti-corruption forces to stench the power of Ukrainian oil moguls who caused the revolution to save themselves from being prosecuted by Russia for their underhanded techniques to maintain their personal wealth by levying their debts on the Ukrainian Government.
Even the IMF cannot get American, France, England and Germany to come up with the $40B payments for the Ukrainian Debt.
The Western Banking Establishment cannot resolve this problem, because they are too greedy, so it is falling into the realm of The Military.
The problem is that The Military is privy to the situation, and cannot commit its troops to the battle based on the corruption of the Banking Establishment, which it despises. There is no honor to die in such a conflict.
Even the IMF cannot get American, France, England and Germany to come up with the $40B payments for the Ukrainian Debt.
The Western Banking Establishment cannot resolve this problem, because they are too greedy, so it is falling into the realm of The Military.
The problem is that The Military is privy to the situation, and cannot commit its troops to the battle based on the corruption of the Banking Establishment, which it despises. There is no honor to die in such a conflict.
13
It's common knowledge that Western-aligned democratically elected oligarchs (Poroshenko) are much better than Eastern-aligned democratically elected oligarchs (Yanukovych).
You see, Russia is a backwards country where all the wealth is concentrated into the hands of crooks in cahoots with a government that ignores laws when profitable to do so. If only Putin would see the error of his ways...
You see, Russia is a backwards country where all the wealth is concentrated into the hands of crooks in cahoots with a government that ignores laws when profitable to do so. If only Putin would see the error of his ways...
2
I didn't know that! I thought it was all about Ukraine joining the "west" through membership in the EU community. I learn something every day reading the NYT comments section. Even from other Canadians.
1
Let me briefly dispel the myths being propagated here by war mongers -
1) Separatists who do not want to be governed by a US sponsored coup government are currently fighting a civil war in Eastern Ukraine against that coup government.
2) Russia did not "invade" Ukraine
3) Putin is not Hitler. Putin is a rational actor.
4) Russia has national interests at stake in Eastern Ukraine. The US does not.
5) Arming Ukraine with so called "defensive weapons" will only greatly escalate the conflict and cause a much broader war which will not be good for anyone.
1) Separatists who do not want to be governed by a US sponsored coup government are currently fighting a civil war in Eastern Ukraine against that coup government.
2) Russia did not "invade" Ukraine
3) Putin is not Hitler. Putin is a rational actor.
4) Russia has national interests at stake in Eastern Ukraine. The US does not.
5) Arming Ukraine with so called "defensive weapons" will only greatly escalate the conflict and cause a much broader war which will not be good for anyone.
108
1. Certainly the U.S. supports a Ukraine that integrates itself with Europe, but you overstate that the uprising was U.S. sponsored. There is no evidence to support such a statement.
2. Of course it did. Russian artillery and personnel were involved. This is well documented. This war would never have happened had Russia allowed the Ukrainians to address its own civil conflict.
3. Agreed. Putin is not Hitler. He is not seeking genocide. But he is making a land grab, pure and simple. My opinion is it will be a short term gain. Every country around Russia now will seek protection from the West. Welcome back to the Cold War.
4. Yes. But Putin would have been smarter to play nice. See #3.
5. Yes. Unfortunately, this is true. But the die has been cast, and now NATO will need to strengthen itself in Europe. Russia's actions made world war a possibility again. Thanks Vladimir.
2. Of course it did. Russian artillery and personnel were involved. This is well documented. This war would never have happened had Russia allowed the Ukrainians to address its own civil conflict.
3. Agreed. Putin is not Hitler. He is not seeking genocide. But he is making a land grab, pure and simple. My opinion is it will be a short term gain. Every country around Russia now will seek protection from the West. Welcome back to the Cold War.
4. Yes. But Putin would have been smarter to play nice. See #3.
5. Yes. Unfortunately, this is true. But the die has been cast, and now NATO will need to strengthen itself in Europe. Russia's actions made world war a possibility again. Thanks Vladimir.
14
Briefly -
1) Russians are fighting in East Ukraine after Putin's corrupt puppet Yanukovych fled Ukraine after massacring protestors in Maidan.
2) Russia has invaded Ukraine.
3) Putin is not a rational actor & his actions are comparable to Hitler's territorial grabs leading to WWII.
4) Putin has obvious interests in expanding Russia's territory in Eastern Europe and in threatening the democratic European nations. It is of vital US interests to support fellow democracies and allies in Europe.
5) As long as Putin has free rein in Ukraine, he will continue his attempts to grab up territory for Russia and do his utmost to damage the democracies in Europe and their relationships with the US. Providing anti-tank weapons and radar for pinpointing Russian artillery positions will be the only thing that will cause Putin to engage in sincere negotiations and de-escalate the crisis in Ukraine.
1) Russians are fighting in East Ukraine after Putin's corrupt puppet Yanukovych fled Ukraine after massacring protestors in Maidan.
2) Russia has invaded Ukraine.
3) Putin is not a rational actor & his actions are comparable to Hitler's territorial grabs leading to WWII.
4) Putin has obvious interests in expanding Russia's territory in Eastern Europe and in threatening the democratic European nations. It is of vital US interests to support fellow democracies and allies in Europe.
5) As long as Putin has free rein in Ukraine, he will continue his attempts to grab up territory for Russia and do his utmost to damage the democracies in Europe and their relationships with the US. Providing anti-tank weapons and radar for pinpointing Russian artillery positions will be the only thing that will cause Putin to engage in sincere negotiations and de-escalate the crisis in Ukraine.
21
1. True. Some separatists are involved in the current unrest.
2. False. The separatists are not building tanks. They are not putting up air defenses. Russian troops inside of Ukraine are operating tanks and manning air defenses.
3. Yes and no. Putin is not Hitler (who died in 1945). Putin is indeed a rational actor, as was Hitler. Putin is doing many of the same things and using many of the same tactics that Hitler used in 1938 (takeover of Sudetenland).
4. False. Russia's 'national interests' are to defend and protect Russia -- not to subvert neighbors and send troops into a sovereign nation (any more than the US should now be invading Mexico or Canada).
5. Yes and no. Resisting an invasion does indeed escalate hostilities. By this token, the British in 1940 should have surrendered to Hitler 'to avoid a larger war'. Wars are not good for anyone. If Putin pulled his troops back into Russia that would show he too agrees that 'avoiding a larger war' is a good idea. So far he has just lied.
2. False. The separatists are not building tanks. They are not putting up air defenses. Russian troops inside of Ukraine are operating tanks and manning air defenses.
3. Yes and no. Putin is not Hitler (who died in 1945). Putin is indeed a rational actor, as was Hitler. Putin is doing many of the same things and using many of the same tactics that Hitler used in 1938 (takeover of Sudetenland).
4. False. Russia's 'national interests' are to defend and protect Russia -- not to subvert neighbors and send troops into a sovereign nation (any more than the US should now be invading Mexico or Canada).
5. Yes and no. Resisting an invasion does indeed escalate hostilities. By this token, the British in 1940 should have surrendered to Hitler 'to avoid a larger war'. Wars are not good for anyone. If Putin pulled his troops back into Russia that would show he too agrees that 'avoiding a larger war' is a good idea. So far he has just lied.
17
I say to the warmongers, "Not so fast." The U.S. needs to sit back for a while and let European citizens and treasure take a hit for once. France is a nuclear power and Germany is beyond rich. Maybe the leaders of those two countries will finally act when Putin's forces reach the outskirts of Berlin and Paris.
If we really stood for freedom all over the world, as some say on here, we would have invaded China and North Korea long ago. Ukraine is not our fight. At least not yet. So let's roll back the testosterone and be thankful that President McCain isn't in the White House.
If we really stood for freedom all over the world, as some say on here, we would have invaded China and North Korea long ago. Ukraine is not our fight. At least not yet. So let's roll back the testosterone and be thankful that President McCain isn't in the White House.
24
Funny, those Russians sent by Putin in Ukraine think that they are fighting Americans and NATO. While not true as we know it, the fact gives little relief to the Ukrainian civilians who are being indiscriminately shelled by Russian rockets and mortar rounds. To spare civilian lives and uphold the Budapest Memorandum, Russia's artillery in Ukraine needs to be either moved out by the Russian owners or destroyed by the Western precision strikes, given the fact that Ukraine does not have the military capacity for such strikes. No need for foreign troops on the ground yet. Putin's "cease-fire" is nothing but mocking the Western diplomacy; he is and will remain a warmonger and a bully.
8
This is a russian invasion, period. Nothing less, nothing more.
The russians need to be stopped and kicked out of Ukraine. Then the russian border with ALL the countries russia's invaded in the 21st century need to be sealed - Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine; in the case of Moldova, Transnitria needs to be returned.
Russians have demonstrated that they will invade, slaughter an annex their neighbors unless forcibly stopped. It's time to stop them. Enough innocent people have died.
The russians need to be stopped and kicked out of Ukraine. Then the russian border with ALL the countries russia's invaded in the 21st century need to be sealed - Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine; in the case of Moldova, Transnitria needs to be returned.
Russians have demonstrated that they will invade, slaughter an annex their neighbors unless forcibly stopped. It's time to stop them. Enough innocent people have died.
77
Haven't you been reading the comments? Any support of Ukraine makes you a warmonger. Putin simply wishes a land bridge to Crimea, and then to Odessa, and perhaps onto Moldovia for good measure. No big deal. If there is any military assistance, it should be to destroy the Ukranian armed forces. The sooner Mr. Putin finishes protecting Russian people, the sooner we can have peace.
6
Them Russkies better watch out cause Obama will warn them that they are misbehaving. And, he'll warn them again. and again. Eventually, they'll learn that they are going to be warned even more.
19
Obama and Susan Rice: You have waited so long that there will not be a Ukraine military left to arm.
28
That's great news. Then why are we even having this discussion?
4
How come, every single place US and their allies get involved in, becomes a terrible mess? You name it, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ukaraine, etc, are all conflicts initiated by the US.
66
"How come, every single place US and their allies get involved in, becomes a terrible mess?"
Not true. Japan and Germany have turned out good.
Not true. Japan and Germany have turned out good.
5
Japan and Germany are already the past history that U.S stand good and firm to its principles then. However the naked truth is that for the last 50 years, U.S has made a real mess of everything they touched on whether it's in Latin America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia and now in East Europe.
1
A few thousand observers on the ground will prevent a costly disaster.
Let the Truth be seen, heard, and told !
Let the Truth be seen, heard, and told !
5
Why is Obama, our Commander of the armed forces, sitting on the sidelines? The last time a president did nothing (remember Jimmy Carter), Americans were held hostage and we were humiliated around the world. It's time to step up to the plate and show Putin and all of the other aggressor dictators out there that America stands for freedom for all, wherever you live.
15
Putin is only as strong as the West's unwillingness to confront him militarily. And nobody in the west wants to do that. Not Obama, not Merkel, not Hollande. Nobody.
In what way did Carter sit on the sidelines? 52 Americans were taken hostage in a gross violation of international law, and 52 came home alive.
In what way did Carter sit on the sidelines? 52 Americans were taken hostage in a gross violation of international law, and 52 came home alive.
28
Its was a superb subversive game plan by the US to lead a diplomatic snub of the Sochi Olympics and while the Olympics were live they engineered a coup in Kiev. It did not matter that the Ukraine President was elected and had agreed to new elections within 2 months. That was not good enough for the US and forged ahead with coup thinking Putin will not do anything during the Olympics and after it would be too late. Probably that's what happened - hope I'm wrong.
9
Perfect timing. we don't want "peace" to break out with the recent treaty.
Who will buy our arms, the the IMF is now funding Kiev again?
Who will buy our arms, the the IMF is now funding Kiev again?
16
Did we really expect anything different in the lead up to the "ceasefire?"
8
MICHAEL R. GORDON and ANDREW E. KRAMER did you not get the memo. It's not a civil war you, it's a Russian insurgency. Surely the two of you can figure that out.
20
The number of Putin apologists masquereding as Americans in this comment section would be laughable if they weren't probably all part of the same propaganda apparatus. Perhaps they should note that winning the "hearts and minds" of a NYT comments section is as close to useless as it gets.
Russia has invaded Ukraine and the limits of European unity and fortitude will continue to be tested. Once Russia has annexed as much of Ukraine as it wants, then what next?
Russia has invaded Ukraine and the limits of European unity and fortitude will continue to be tested. Once Russia has annexed as much of Ukraine as it wants, then what next?
185
Russia does NOT want to annex Donbas region. Actually, they want them to stay within Ukraine, and the system people of that area want is a federal type of arrangement. The American media is nothing but a propaganda machine for US aggressive foreign policy. What good did that policy do in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Ukraine, but made the lives of the people there miserable?
46
Putin telegraphed his goals early in this campaign: isolation of Ukraine by sea by taking Odessa. He also has plans for eastern Europe. Look for his next move in the Baltics and Romania. Then, look for him to work with his friends in Belarus to go after Poland. Putin said as much in an interview last year that was reported by the Guardian. The Germans and French are bought and paid for. They know the US will help them when Putin gets that far.
It is time for the Eastern Europeans to bond together apart from NATO. They have a chance that way.
It is time for the Eastern Europeans to bond together apart from NATO. They have a chance that way.
14
As much of other countries that he wants. I don't think he wants all of the former Warsaw Pact nations but he's not done with lunch yet. Solzhenitsyns "Rebuilding Russia" may have some clues but once he's astride the tiger (shirtless no doubt) it's hard to say where or when it will end. Presently, the Europeans and the American's seem to just want it to stop - for awhile - w/o making any difficult decisions. I don't blame them or us. Why fight or flee or accommodate when you can put the game on hold and get a beer.
1
The latest Minsk Accords will not secure peace in Ukraine any more than the 1973 Paris Accords settled the Vietnam War. The North Vietnamese had no intention of resting until the last American helicopter had been cleared from Saigon. Putin will not stop until American political and military influence has been swept from Ukraine.
Let's face the truth. American has overreached in its efforts to secure world hegemony. Again.
Let's face the truth. American has overreached in its efforts to secure world hegemony. Again.
28
America has done pretty much nothing, here. This is a russian invasion, period. Nothing less, nothing more.
The russians need to be stopped and kicked out of Ukraine. Then the russian border with ALL the countries russia's invaded in the 21st century need to be sealed - Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.
Russians have demonstrated that they will invade, slaughter an annex their neighbors unless forcibly stopped. It's time to stop them. Enough innocent people have died.
The russians need to be stopped and kicked out of Ukraine. Then the russian border with ALL the countries russia's invaded in the 21st century need to be sealed - Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.
Russians have demonstrated that they will invade, slaughter an annex their neighbors unless forcibly stopped. It's time to stop them. Enough innocent people have died.
25
We don't need a full-court press here. No over-reaching is required.
3
The US sponsored a coup of the democratically elected Ukrainian goverment, it triggered a civil war in Eastern Ukraine where Russian interests are at stake and the US government is now lecturing Russia.
Besides, I thought this was a European issue. What US interests are at stake?
Besides, I thought this was a European issue. What US interests are at stake?
65
"The US sponsored a coup of the democratically elected Ukrainian goverment, "
Why does the NYT not spare us from onslaught of sponsored comments supporting the Rape of Ukraine? Compare to the Rape of Belgium -- 1914. Same chauvinism at play, same murder of civilians for the nostalgia of a expanding a corrupted empire. Back then, German names of places and hospitals were replaced all over the United States and Canada. Putin's machinery of of lies will drag Russia into a similar situation of national disrepute. Russia is waging war, right here, in these columns. Increasingly, Putin must be regarded as a madman.
Why does the NYT not spare us from onslaught of sponsored comments supporting the Rape of Ukraine? Compare to the Rape of Belgium -- 1914. Same chauvinism at play, same murder of civilians for the nostalgia of a expanding a corrupted empire. Back then, German names of places and hospitals were replaced all over the United States and Canada. Putin's machinery of of lies will drag Russia into a similar situation of national disrepute. Russia is waging war, right here, in these columns. Increasingly, Putin must be regarded as a madman.
62
This is getting tiresome reading Russian apologists trying to justify naked aggression.
The Ukrainian people look at Poland a successful member of the E.U.
In the same timeframe the Polish GDP has grown 3 times as rapidly as that of Ukraine, so the Ukrainians wish to be part of that success story & look westwards
Hence a majority of Ukrainians have no interest in joining the Russian Customs Union.
So far 1400+ of Ukraine's military have fought & died for a better future for themselves & their children.
Putin like a scorned ex boyfriend is broadcasting poisonous media commentary into Eastern Ukraine about the fascists in Kiev & flooding the separatist enclave with ordinance.
It is a sickening spectacle.
The Ukrainian people look at Poland a successful member of the E.U.
In the same timeframe the Polish GDP has grown 3 times as rapidly as that of Ukraine, so the Ukrainians wish to be part of that success story & look westwards
Hence a majority of Ukrainians have no interest in joining the Russian Customs Union.
So far 1400+ of Ukraine's military have fought & died for a better future for themselves & their children.
Putin like a scorned ex boyfriend is broadcasting poisonous media commentary into Eastern Ukraine about the fascists in Kiev & flooding the separatist enclave with ordinance.
It is a sickening spectacle.
111
Thank you comrade.
8
Who's kidding whom?
Keep your eye on Mariupol; the current fighting is just a diversion to Putin's land grab for a corridor to the Crimea.
I hope Obama is just waiting for Angele Merkel to realize the hopelessness of dealing with Putin and for her to start taking the Russian invasion of Ukraine for what it is, and what it means to all of Europe. I think he could do a better job of setting her up for the fall.....
Keep your eye on Mariupol; the current fighting is just a diversion to Putin's land grab for a corridor to the Crimea.
I hope Obama is just waiting for Angele Merkel to realize the hopelessness of dealing with Putin and for her to start taking the Russian invasion of Ukraine for what it is, and what it means to all of Europe. I think he could do a better job of setting her up for the fall.....
44
Obama doesn't want to offend Merkel who doesn't want to offend her banks and business interests invested in Russia --- see how it works! Putin has planned his move like a chess master. The only effective action is surprise. Attack where least expected, when least expected to give Putin pause.
7
Exactly.
Putin desperately wants that land bridge to Crimea and will do anything to get it.
Of course, an attack on Mariupol will just prove that point as the citizens of Mariupol have already defeated the separatist faction that tried to take over the city earlier last year.
They want nothing to do with the separatists
Putin desperately wants that land bridge to Crimea and will do anything to get it.
Of course, an attack on Mariupol will just prove that point as the citizens of Mariupol have already defeated the separatist faction that tried to take over the city earlier last year.
They want nothing to do with the separatists
14
I was stunned by Merkel's comments immediately after the last agreement, "I doubt that it will work". Then why did she even bother signing the agreement. She has joined Chamberlin as one of the worst appeasers ever.
2
Russia has invaded Ukraine. That is the only issue. No one seems able or willing to say that. Will the US and Europe allow Russia to use its military on the other side of its border ? Can we be resolute in its consequences ? We spend around $700 billion dollars a year on our military for this very scenario. If we can not act with that force, then disband the military to a serviceable purpose.
62
Actually the budget for the Department of Defense is to protect America and our vital strategic interests. Where is it stated that going to war with Russia over Ukraine is in our national interest? Is fighting over Ukraine worth potentially starting WW3 against Russia?
Are you really that quick to send other people's children to fight and die or are you going to be one of the first to enlist?
Are you really that quick to send other people's children to fight and die or are you going to be one of the first to enlist?
48
I think you missed my obvious point. Since most of these conflicts do not have military solutions to them, why do we support a military designed for a purpose that we should never use it for ? Actually.
5
I'm not advocating for a US led military solution to this issue. But given that our military is specifically designed and funded for the containment of Russia, and for stability in Europe, why do we continue to fund such an enterprise ? Why don't we scale it back to a more serviceable purpose ?
4
Why do people want give Russia a free pass on sending troops and weaponry into Ukraine? They are obviously lying about their involvement just as they lied mere months ago in regards to Crimea. This conflict would have ended long ago if not for Russia sending soldiers, weapons and other material into another nation.
And this not an issue that will simply go away. It sets precedent for future incidents and crises. Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia; Transnistria in Moldova; now Crimea and eastern Ukraine. When Russia uses force to implement its will in international conflicts and gets away with it scot-free, let's call it what it is: appeasement.
And this not an issue that will simply go away. It sets precedent for future incidents and crises. Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia; Transnistria in Moldova; now Crimea and eastern Ukraine. When Russia uses force to implement its will in international conflicts and gets away with it scot-free, let's call it what it is: appeasement.
111
The point is that it is none of our business. What happens to Ukraine is not a US national security issue. We are supposed to be concentrating on Afghanistan, ISIL, IRAQ - that is where our money should go - not wasting time on a country which is no security threat to the US regardless of who occupies it.
27
Ukraine is the only nation in the history of humanity that gave away the world's 3rd nuclear stockpile for the sake of peace. The U.S., along with Great Britain, Russia and China, guaranteed Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity as stated in the Budapest Memorandum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
2
Succinctly and correctly stated.
2
Does anybody with half a brain trust Putin to stick to this cease fire? It's a land grab to keep the mindless Russians distracted from the financial ruin he's brought on their country.
83
Russia should be cut off from the SWIFT banking system before they invade somebody else.
119
No.
Because cutting them from the way the banks communicate means cutting them from the world trade. Its one thing to tell them they cant trade with the West, that's our decision. Its another to attack their economy and send them to the stone age.
Why?
Because if you deny them the ability to trade with the rest of the world there is nothing stopping them from blowing a couple nukes in the stratosphere and EMP every unshielded electronic equipment in Europe and the US. If they are going to go into the stone age they sure as hell wont mind taking us with them.
Because cutting them from the way the banks communicate means cutting them from the world trade. Its one thing to tell them they cant trade with the West, that's our decision. Its another to attack their economy and send them to the stone age.
Why?
Because if you deny them the ability to trade with the rest of the world there is nothing stopping them from blowing a couple nukes in the stratosphere and EMP every unshielded electronic equipment in Europe and the US. If they are going to go into the stone age they sure as hell wont mind taking us with them.
3
@Pit
"there is nothing stopping them from blowing a couple nukes in the stratosphere and EMP"
That is pure hysterics. The Russian economy would be sorely hit but the idea that it would cause what you envision is baseless.
"there is nothing stopping them from blowing a couple nukes in the stratosphere and EMP"
That is pure hysterics. The Russian economy would be sorely hit but the idea that it would cause what you envision is baseless.
7
Nobody has openly denied it. What the Russians say is, “provide me some evidence, please”, and what funny is that no verifiable evidence has been presented yet. My point is the following: yes, they do it, but very crafty.
14
Obama and his State Department DOES realize it made a 'deal' with Putin doesn't it? Or are they just naive?
3
"The new cease-fire agreement that was negotiated by the leaders of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany..." The U.S. was not part of the agreement.
25
The U.S. was not involved in the negotiations and was not a party to the deal.
19
You should know what you're talking about before you post.
9
The USA contributed to the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukrainian government and has worked with NATO to intimidate Russia by installing right wing nationalists in Gov't who want to wipe out anyone with a Russian background, which includes Eastern Ukraine. This is purely a UN/NATO driven strategy to grab and control territory because the Euro is going down the drain.
76
More lies and nonsense by a paid Kremlin operative. These talking points have been debunked so many times but you continue to spew the same drivel. For the 1000th time, there was no coup in Ukraine!!! It was a popular uprising against a corrupt Russian puppet strong-armed into turning his country away from closer association with the West. The bully here is Russia and it needs to let Ukraine go its own way and leave them alone.
130
I don't get your reasoning. Please explain. As far as I can judge, the Maidan(?) protesters overthrew a supremely corrupt Russian-backed government which has left the country in financial ruin. Russia has, with weapons and other materiel, been infiltrating the Crimea for years. As to your point about hostility to people with Russian backgrounds, Ukrainians didn't hold grudges against their Russian-speaking countrymen before Russia invaded. This whole business of it being a UN/NATO strategy is nonsense. Poor Ukraine just wanted to explore a more democratic, Europe-oriented existence. It's high time Russia allowed the 'Kievan Rus' to select their own fate.
60
You are absolutely right Rusalka. Roger Cohen in his editorial accurately pointed out the Kremlin tactics that pay homage to 1984's doublethink - repeating lies often enough to make any kind of rational conversation impossible. Since the beginning Putin has used "negotiations" as a decoy for establishing facts on the ground. It s a true sickness of the human condition that he represents - as do his pathetic acolytes contributing too these commentaries. Ukraine only seeks to extricate herself from soviet era repression - it is the cry of the human spirit to be free - for the opportunity to fulfill human potential. Only empty souls would choose to stand in her way.
29
NYT lets not be too hasty to pass judgment on Putin. Here are some other interesting facts.
I doubt the NYT will publish this as it against their Pro-Kiev anti-Putin stance, but people need to know that Kiev appears not to intend to keep the agreement – so the onus should not be on the rebels or Putin alone.
The agreement not in effect and already broken:
Poroshenko has already announced that he will not talk to the leaders of the Donbass and Luhansk.
Dimitry Yarosh, Right Sektor, had declared he will keep fighting and does not recognize Minsk II. Ukrainian army gave him 17 Battalions of troops for his Right Sektor milita paid for by Kolomoisky.
Pavlo Klimkin, Ukraine Foreign Ministers, says the amnesty does not apply to the leaders of Donbass and Luhask, as Kiev had passed a law in September 2014 that no amnesty would apply to Zakharchenko or Plotnisky thus that part of Minsk is invalid.
The Dutch are worried that the amnesty will include those that shot down MH17 - but we really have no names.
Lysenko, Ukrainian Army spokesman, says that no matter the result of the battle, Ukraine intends to keep Debaltseve as it was outside the old Minsk lines.
Now if anyone thinks that these statements indicate that Kiev will observe the cease fire, you are living in a dream world. Ukraine has no intention to honor all the agreements of the cease fire. So don't be so quick to say Putin and the rebels will break the ceasefire.
I doubt the NYT will publish this as it against their Pro-Kiev anti-Putin stance, but people need to know that Kiev appears not to intend to keep the agreement – so the onus should not be on the rebels or Putin alone.
The agreement not in effect and already broken:
Poroshenko has already announced that he will not talk to the leaders of the Donbass and Luhansk.
Dimitry Yarosh, Right Sektor, had declared he will keep fighting and does not recognize Minsk II. Ukrainian army gave him 17 Battalions of troops for his Right Sektor milita paid for by Kolomoisky.
Pavlo Klimkin, Ukraine Foreign Ministers, says the amnesty does not apply to the leaders of Donbass and Luhask, as Kiev had passed a law in September 2014 that no amnesty would apply to Zakharchenko or Plotnisky thus that part of Minsk is invalid.
The Dutch are worried that the amnesty will include those that shot down MH17 - but we really have no names.
Lysenko, Ukrainian Army spokesman, says that no matter the result of the battle, Ukraine intends to keep Debaltseve as it was outside the old Minsk lines.
Now if anyone thinks that these statements indicate that Kiev will observe the cease fire, you are living in a dream world. Ukraine has no intention to honor all the agreements of the cease fire. So don't be so quick to say Putin and the rebels will break the ceasefire.
58
"The Dutch are worried that the amnesty will include those that shot down MH17 - but we really have no names."
Russian anti-air missiles shot down this plane. This really doesn't help your "position", if we can even call it that.
Russian anti-air missiles shot down this plane. This really doesn't help your "position", if we can even call it that.
28
The investigation is ongoing. No one knows who shot down MH17.
14
Facts? What facts? Show us the proof to back up your assertions. Russia has lied about everything they have done in Ukraine during this crisis. Everything! Remember Crimea? Those were Russian soldiers that invaded (putin admitted to this after the fact) and they are also the ones invading and fighting in Donbass. There is no way that the so-called Separatists could have fought the Ukrainian Army this long without Russian military personnel and armaments. The missile that was fired at MH17 was from the ground and launched by Russians. The missile that was fired two days ago near Ukrainian HQ was launched by Russians as well. It takes years to learn how to use these weapon systems so the Russian military is directly causing this conflict. There would have been no war in Ukraine if it wasn't for Putin and Russia.
64
Proof, can we please have some proof? I'd really like a few satellite images of the missile buildup.
48
I agree. I've heard J. Psaki speak for the state dept. many times and not once offer proof of anything. Today is the same: "“The Russian military has deployed a large amount of artillery and multiple rocket launcher systems around Debaltseve, where it is shelling Ukrainian positions,” and “We are confident that these are Russian military, not separatist systems.” "Ms. Psaki also said that the United States had reliable reports that Russia was preparing a large shipment of supplies to pro-Russian forces fighting in Ukraine." Odd how she never names the "reliable reports" reporters. Our industrial complex war profiteers will be happy to get into another war America can't (and doesn't want to) win.
31
Please stop with the "our industrial complex", rhetoric, it is getting really tiresome. The world is a very bad place and always has been. Had we not been willing to outspend Russia over the past 70 years, the map of Europe and Asia would look quite different, and Cuba would be bristling with nuclear missals. If this country and it's policies are so abhorrent to you and you think that Russia is the bringer of peace and prosperity to the world then let me make a suggestion. The demographics of Russia are showing it's lack of ethnic Russians, you could help them out by immigrating to the land of white nights, state controlled media, empty shelves, lies, show trials, brutality, aggression against it's neighbors, etc., This great country on it's worse day, with all its faults, it's powerful military, is better than any other nation on earth. We helped to win the peace in WW2 sacrificed billions of dollars to secure it for future generations by policing the world and putting out hotspots. The men and women that have given their lives to that end for 70 years do not deserve your obvious contempt for this country and it's government. There comes a time when we have trust our elected officials to some extent. This is a very serious situation with Putin, what we do in the next year will determine your future and the future of every single American. Our elected officials need your prayers or at least your support.
10
So all the film and video tape of Russian tanks, missile batteries and troops crossing the border into the Ukraine don't count as proof. There is plenty of proof, including remnants of the missile that shot down the civilian airliner. You paid trolls follow the old German model, tell a lie often enough and people will believe it. Well I don't, and most other thinking people don't either.
11
... I think it will only be valid if all the bombs, shells and bullets that the US and the NATO have rained down on others for the past 25 years, will fall upon their own heads.