The water pillow: a chiropractor recommended it to me, and for this side sleeper, it works like a dream. No neck pain. BUT the thing starts leaking and then gets black mold eventually...I wish there was a leak-free water pillow....
16
I completely DISAGREE with the author's dissing of My Pillow. I have very broad shoulders, and when I sleep on my side, My Pillow is the only one I've found (other than latex foam) that allows me to keep my spine aligned and my neck from being crunched in a bad position.
I've bought several My Pillows, and have even washed/dried them myself (in a washing machine & dryer). The "lumpiness" that the author complains about is due to the different sizes/shapes of foam inside My Pillow. I just fluff mine at night (or if really necessary, I pull on the outside of the pillow cover to loosen the foam pieces from each other and customize the volume for myself).
I'm not saying My Pillow is "the" answer for everyone, but it sure is "the" answer for some of us!
Also, note that the foam used in My Pillow is NOT latex, which matters b/c as much as I *loved* latex pillows for their bounce/resiliency, I ultimately developed an inhalation allergy to latex and now cannot use a latex pillow or mattress ever again.
I've bought several My Pillows, and have even washed/dried them myself (in a washing machine & dryer). The "lumpiness" that the author complains about is due to the different sizes/shapes of foam inside My Pillow. I just fluff mine at night (or if really necessary, I pull on the outside of the pillow cover to loosen the foam pieces from each other and customize the volume for myself).
I'm not saying My Pillow is "the" answer for everyone, but it sure is "the" answer for some of us!
Also, note that the foam used in My Pillow is NOT latex, which matters b/c as much as I *loved* latex pillows for their bounce/resiliency, I ultimately developed an inhalation allergy to latex and now cannot use a latex pillow or mattress ever again.
10
Chronic neck issues here, from prolapsed cervical discs and a pinched nerve. I tried one of those foam orthopedic pillows and hated it. It was fine if you remained in one spot, on your back, all night, but who does that? I have a buckwheat pillow that I use for an afternoon lie-down, but I can't tolerate it a full night. I've gone through several densities of down pillows and synthetic fill substitutes, trying to find perfection. What I have found works best is a soft, fluffy goose down or synthetic down pillow that can be molded and bunched as needed. I can bend it over itself to make a bolster for traction, or flatten it out for side sleeping. Anything too firm causes my body to fight against the pressure of the pillow. Sometimes I sleep flat on my back with no pillow at all. If you are having muscle spasms, this can calm them, especially if you place a rolled-up towel or small buckwheat pillow under your occipital area (the base of your skull) to provide traction. Then practice savasana and pranayama. Pure bliss.
For all the money I have spent on expensive down, the synthetic pillows I purchased from Costco a couple years ago have done pretty well. I air them in the hot sun regularly.
For all the money I have spent on expensive down, the synthetic pillows I purchased from Costco a couple years ago have done pretty well. I air them in the hot sun regularly.
5
The fabulous internet allows us to peruse topics we would never otherwise have for conversation. A conversation like this one can only happen with well informed contributors, those who sleep, and on a bed. What decadent pleasure to not consider the alternatives. And consider too the improvement in our level of sophistication: Who would have thought coconuts for a pillow?
12
I fold a beach towel in half 3 times, that's the base layer. Then on top of that I have a throw pillow (which takes some breaking in) for a little bit of cushion on top. The tailors look at me funny when I ask them to build a 13 x 16 pillowcase from a full size, but as a lifelong side sleeper, it works.
7
This is a confusing article. It seems to want to evaluate pillows for their orthopedic benefit, but keeps mentioning the ugliness of the foam contour pillows. Did the author reject these because they looked bad or because they left her neck hurting?
9
My mattress was hurting my back, tried the floor, too hard. Kept at it for a while, but still too hard, but better. So, tried a camping pad, getting better. Then I tried the inflatable Bean camping mattress, perfect.
But, now, what? Sleeping on the floor on a camping mattress is weird!
But, now, what? Sleeping on the floor on a camping mattress is weird!
12
I find that the best pillow is one of the $10 neck pillows I find at Marshall's. Supports the neck and keeps the spine in proper alignment when sleeping on your back. Actually, my osteopath says that the best way to sleep is on your back with no pillow. Once you get used to it, that works just fine, too.
For side sleeping, the "SideSleeper" pillow is awesome. Love the little indentation for ears!
For side sleeping, the "SideSleeper" pillow is awesome. Love the little indentation for ears!
10
Ya' know that feeling of blissful surrender that happens as you're snuggled in bed....with tv or a book? You drift, drift....drift.....and suddenly the snort music of your own snore briefly wakes you. That's down as in a nice soft one atop a medium. Ahhhhhh. Pass the remote please.
10
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned bed wedge pillows, which honestly changed everything for me. I'm 29, and I used to wake up with a stiff neck almost every morning and threw out my back all the time. I tried so many different types of pillows, from very thin to very soft to very firm, tempurpedic, feather-filled, etc, and nothing worked that well. Then I heard about bed wedge pillows, and bought a simple, cheap one for about $30. That was definitely helpful in some ways, but still not enough.
So about 6 months ago I bought a ContourSleep Side Sleeper Bed Wedge from Relax the Back and I've been feeling SO much better! I bought it for $95 [now $119] + the cervical neck pillow for $35 [now $49, which is way overpriced, but they have sales sometimes] (http://www.relaxtheback.com/side-sleeper-bed-wedge.html). I won't say I'm "cured" of my neck and back problems, but I don't have nearly as much pain and stiffness, and I haven't thrown out my back since I started using it.
It's not the best looking thing ever, but when it comes to health, it really shouldn't matter what it looks like. Go to a Relax the Back store and try it out. Unfortunately you can't return it after buying, but if nothing else has worked for you, it's absolutely worth it to spend the money and take it home to try it out.
So about 6 months ago I bought a ContourSleep Side Sleeper Bed Wedge from Relax the Back and I've been feeling SO much better! I bought it for $95 [now $119] + the cervical neck pillow for $35 [now $49, which is way overpriced, but they have sales sometimes] (http://www.relaxtheback.com/side-sleeper-bed-wedge.html). I won't say I'm "cured" of my neck and back problems, but I don't have nearly as much pain and stiffness, and I haven't thrown out my back since I started using it.
It's not the best looking thing ever, but when it comes to health, it really shouldn't matter what it looks like. Go to a Relax the Back store and try it out. Unfortunately you can't return it after buying, but if nothing else has worked for you, it's absolutely worth it to spend the money and take it home to try it out.
6
What I would like to find is a pillow that stays cool. Menopause has brought on night sweats and even the pillows touted to stay cool don't help when I'm up at 4AM.
31
For years I had a stiff neck. It hurt to turn my head to look over my shoulder. Then I began experiencing severe neck pain at night. Rolling over was simply excruciating. I finally went to a physical therapist who gave me the simplest excercise, which involved a pillow. Each day I would lie on the floor for 15 minutes, flat on my back with a pillow under me (the long way) from my shoulder blades down past my butt. After two weeks I was to add another pillow on top of the first. Within 3 weeks all of my pain and stiffness went away completely--ALL of it. My PT said that as we get older and sit a lot, and look at computer monitors, some muscles in the neck atrophy. My therapy was to re stretch those muscles. It worked. I sleep like a baby with a cheap pillow, I can't even remember where I bought it.
51
I loved my Tempurpedic pillow for years until one day it just didnt work and my neck got sore. Replaced it with no success. Now I have a mypillow that works great and holds its position when you plump it and lay down. We'll see if this holds up.
8
The same paper that cries about inequity runs an article about high end luxury pillows and mattresses. Hypocrisy much?
8
I have neck and shoulder pain. I've tried lots of pillows. What works best for me are the waterbase pillows, like the Mediflow that can be bought on Amazon for $40. Allows you to add or remove water to adjust the height of your head. Not perfect, but better than down or foam. Save your money for a good massage!
3
We had horsetail mattresses growing up - I believe they were leftovers from the army in WW2. At least that's what my parents told me. Who knew?
My old landlords in Northern New Mexico (and all their kindred and neighbors, I'm sure) used to sleep on mattresses filled with wool. Every spring they would open the ticking and hand wash the wool. I doubt anyone is doing that with a Hastens!
Glad to know that the ultra rich are now following the well trodden hippie path to the natural life. Now, if you will just share your wealth!
My old landlords in Northern New Mexico (and all their kindred and neighbors, I'm sure) used to sleep on mattresses filled with wool. Every spring they would open the ticking and hand wash the wool. I doubt anyone is doing that with a Hastens!
Glad to know that the ultra rich are now following the well trodden hippie path to the natural life. Now, if you will just share your wealth!
9
My wife and I have both slept on buckwheat pillows for years and are very happy with them. We also sleep on a buckwheat mattress. We bought the fabric casing online and stuffed it ourselves. It took a LOT of buckwheat but the end result is fantastic. Finally we added a noise machine that whirs like a fan.
End result = blissful nights sleep with far less interruptions leading to feeling better rested in the morning.
End result = blissful nights sleep with far less interruptions leading to feeling better rested in the morning.
9
I tried a lot of different types of pillows, some quite expensive. The expensive ones were no better than the cheap ones. The last several pillows I bought came from Big Lots when they were having a 2-for-the-price-of-1 sale - so my current pillow cost a little over two dollars.
This all sounds like more proof, as if we need any more, that rich people have way too much money and no idea what to do with it all. Raise their taxes and end this insanity. Now.
This all sounds like more proof, as if we need any more, that rich people have way too much money and no idea what to do with it all. Raise their taxes and end this insanity. Now.
38
It just does something to my brain to read that folks --who obviously have far more money than sense -- would really, really consider a pillow that cost $35,000, or was it $38,000? Just insanely off the top ridiculous. Where are the Huns, folks?
25
Did we evolve from people who slept in chicken coops? I have some issue understanding the focus on softness and especially on feathery pillows.
When my father have back problems, he slept on the floor to fix it. When I had a similar issue, we bought a wood board from Lowe's to replace my mattress.
I still remember my grandparents using bamboo pillows that were also very hard.
In fact, a more luxury traditional pillow for us would have silk worm poop as the main filling along with other eastern medicine (so the pillow will likely feel like a sand bag).
Like many said below, the pillow that fixed their problems were not the feather soft ones, but buckwheat pillows.
Perhaps the trend of luxury today is no different from when ancient Greeks sweetened their wine with lead.
When my father have back problems, he slept on the floor to fix it. When I had a similar issue, we bought a wood board from Lowe's to replace my mattress.
I still remember my grandparents using bamboo pillows that were also very hard.
In fact, a more luxury traditional pillow for us would have silk worm poop as the main filling along with other eastern medicine (so the pillow will likely feel like a sand bag).
Like many said below, the pillow that fixed their problems were not the feather soft ones, but buckwheat pillows.
Perhaps the trend of luxury today is no different from when ancient Greeks sweetened their wine with lead.
9
I have had neck problems from a bad disc for 20 years, and the only thing that worked for me was the solution recommended by physical therapist Robin McKenzie, in his book Treat Your Own Neck--a down pillow, with a cervical roll inside the pillow case (called, not surprisingly, a McKenzie Roll).
4
You lost me at "$100,000 mattress".
That is obscene.
That is obscene.
78
You should also have tried a traditional Korean pillow. It is basically a brick wrapped with a thin cloth.
5
I saw those pillow informercials on tv. I think there's something to pillows actually causing problems. What I'm writing is not an endorsement of any pillow. I'm in the care of a spinal adjustor, not a chiropractor, named McNally, in the midwest where I live. I got my spin out of whack sleeping on one side to avoid arthritic pain in the opposite shoulder. After 9 years of that, I knew I'd wrecked my posture tho the arthritic pain was gone. I needed to go back to standing straight. McNally spends two hours taking xrays of your entire spine, analyses them, and uses some very light touches to one's neck, to adjust my 18 pound bowling ball to the very center of my being. He warns not to fall asleep on propped pillows watching tv. I did that once and he had to readjust me. As for pillows, the guy recommending no pillow and sleeping on one's back is right. That's close to balancing the bowling ball. I CAN sleep on my back, but recovery means choosing new positions in my sleep, so I use a pillow thats close to no pillow at all. I didn't have any pain or aches before readjustment began. Now I do because, even while awake, I'm adjustiing to the left and backward to regain my natural posture.
5
I bought buckwheat hulls in bulk. Took a neck pillow you can buy at any airport- removed the cheap filling and filled with buckwheat hulls. Double benefit- I can use it on the flight, amd I am comfortable in any hotel simce the buckwheat neck pillow doubles as my sleep pillow. i never use hotel pillows anymore! The best sleep ever! ( the rest of the buckwheat hulls went into to meditation cushions)
9
I've tried all kinds of pillows with all kinds of fillings. For several years the buckwheat hulls were supportive of my short neck and provided me with quality sleep. At this time my best choice is a reconfigured lumbar support cushion from a top brand ,it is firm and keeps my neck in place (stomach- sleeper) A prescription for sleeping meds helps me achieve the necessary quality and duration of sleep I need to maintain my sanity .It works for me :-)
4
About a month ago I bought a buckwheat pillow on Amazon. I found it odd and crunchy but woke up feeling pretty good. I've since added an old, very thin, down pillow on top to mitigate the crunchy feel and to keep my head level when I sleep on my side. I've gotta say it works! An added plus is that I'll never lose a pillow fight again.
22
I too love my buckwheat pillow!
3
Bought down Eddy Bauer pillows in the seventies and have replace every several years. I especially like them when they are old and flattened. Sleep on those, read on the new plump ones.
8
I have a buckwheat hull pillow and my brother tried it once. He thought it felt like concrete. I was cracking up laughing. I told him he could mold it to fit comfortably under his neck. It wasn't for him though.
5
I find two down/feather pillows that can be fluffed or punched down for comfort to be the best. I bought mine in a two pack from Costco. I have tried synthetic pillows and the heavier foam ergonomic style shaped in the form of a wave but found both to be too stiff and unyielding. After spending hundreds on the latest pillow fad, I am back to the down/feather pillows that I used as a child.
My mother uses a soft bath towel that she folds to fit. That has the advantage of being easy to wash inside and out.
My mother uses a soft bath towel that she folds to fit. That has the advantage of being easy to wash inside and out.
5
I bought a botanical latex pillow from Costco online (not available anymore) for about $50 and it has been perfect for me. I also bought a botanical latex mattress from another source. They're extremely comfortable and unlike other foam-related products, do not off-gas noxious chemistry into your environment and ultimately into your body.
10
Stenosis, arthritis, bone spurs, and scoliosis - I have them all. I use 4 pillows at night, and if my spouse wouldn't feel that bed is getting too crowded I'd add a full body pillow (often sold to pregnant women) as another prop to keep me in some semblance of alignment. My favorite pillow is one I found 20+ years ago at one of those big-box bed & all stores. It was only about $20.00 back then, and is a basic rectangular pillow, stuffed with poly fiber but with a flatter circle quilted in the middle. I use it on top of another very flat pillow when I sleep on my side, so the bump on the edge of the pillow in under my neck and the weight is off my shoulders (a bit.) Everything comes tumbling down whenever I move, but after so many years I count the pillows as my 3:00 am friends with issues.
14
Two pillows, one a medium firm down alternative, the other in front, a scrunchable soft down pillow. Use the soft down pillow to make a shelf for your occipital bone to rest upon, forming a soft cradle of cervical traction. Bliss.
And no, don't wake up pain free but the best advice is to get out of bed and get moving. As the saying goes, growing old is not for wimps!
And no, don't wake up pain free but the best advice is to get out of bed and get moving. As the saying goes, growing old is not for wimps!
6
I can't do down because of allergies, but I've found that just about any cheap foam pillow topped with a Brookstone Better Than Down standard pillow (usually 2 for $49, now 2 for $29) completely solved my getting-up-with-a-sore-neck-and-shoulder problem.
Careful if you have allergies - buckwheat pillows can cause lungs to seize up - and there's no warning. I bought an organic buckwheat pillow and before it was fully out of the box, pretty much stopped breathing. I immediately sent the pillow to the trash. Researching about this, I learned that grain pillows can grow mold which is what I am allergic to.
22
Tempurpedic. Many years ago when my ex-husband and I bought our bed, it came with free pillows. Their basic pillow. They are fantastic! And now, very old - lumpy, and I hate to think about the germ factor.
I have wanted the exact same one, but the Tempurpedic site lists so many it is impossible to know which to buy. There is no basic Tempurpedic pillow anymore.
K-Mart does take returns, but I've not found a decent foam or down pillow. Based on all the comments here, I think I might try buckwheat! Thank you, everyone.
I have wanted the exact same one, but the Tempurpedic site lists so many it is impossible to know which to buy. There is no basic Tempurpedic pillow anymore.
K-Mart does take returns, but I've not found a decent foam or down pillow. Based on all the comments here, I think I might try buckwheat! Thank you, everyone.
3
For a very short time the Sleep Number company sold a pillow which like their Sleep Number beds was air-filled and totally adjustable: firm when wanted, soft when necessary. My pillow needs depend on how active I've been and what activities I've done during the day before I sleep so a pillow that adjusts is perfect for me.
It was interesting to read what the internal contents of pillows can be. I shudder like others who commented about "heirloom" down or chemical interiors. It does seem most who comment like buckwheat or millet, although the Coco Mat pillows which might be edible seem like a good choice, too, for those who like to be prepared for the worst.
It was interesting to read what the internal contents of pillows can be. I shudder like others who commented about "heirloom" down or chemical interiors. It does seem most who comment like buckwheat or millet, although the Coco Mat pillows which might be edible seem like a good choice, too, for those who like to be prepared for the worst.
4
Train yourself to sleep on your back and stomach, and get rid of the pillow. Neck and shoulder pain, related to sleeping on your side, will vanish. The pillow is the enabler of the bad habit.
7
I recently purchased a wool mattress and wool topper, and two wool pillows and a wool comforter came with it (all covered in organic cotton). I have never slept so soundly! I am sold on wool and cotton.
12
Where does one get this setup? Can you please name your vendor?
4
I sleep on my back. Due to sinus and back problems, my head needs to be elevated. This inexpensive solution works great for me:
1. Buy 2 polyester pillows: one very firm pillow, and one medium-soft pillow.
2. Sleep with the softer pillow on top of the firm one.
The result is very comfortable. Total cost: about $20
You may have to experiment to find a soft pillow that has exactly the right amount of softness. But even if you have to buy 2 or 3 extra pillows, the total cost is still low.
1. Buy 2 polyester pillows: one very firm pillow, and one medium-soft pillow.
2. Sleep with the softer pillow on top of the firm one.
The result is very comfortable. Total cost: about $20
You may have to experiment to find a soft pillow that has exactly the right amount of softness. But even if you have to buy 2 or 3 extra pillows, the total cost is still low.
4
I find I sleep best when I've done an honest day's work, gotten some exercise, and not spent an obscene amount of money on the latest consumer fad.
64
Thanks commenters for some good tips. Never'd thought of buckwheat.
5
I love my Pacific Down pillow, as a side sleeper it gives me great yet soft support.
3
One Ikea Gosa Pinje down pillow, cost $10.
Indispensible, I sleep on it every night and I take it everywhere I travel.
Indispensible, I sleep on it every night and I take it everywhere I travel.
4
"I had come to Hastens first because it is the purveyor of the $100,000 ...this number sets a benchmark for a certain kind of lunatic luxury purchase.)"
Anyone who thinks a $100K mattress is a luxury is not a good judge of luxury or probably many other things.
Anyone who thinks a $100K mattress is a luxury is not a good judge of luxury or probably many other things.
14
My cathedral bed is 160 YO and the almost queen size matttress is at least 50 YO. Got new pillows at Costco for $20 and when I asked for pillow protectors I got a "what"?
Yes goose down is fabuluous and my cold weather goose down sleeping bag kept me warm at -20F at Everest Base camp.
Thorstein Veblen, whose conspicuous consumption theory has been well demonstrated here. Mattresses for $1K and pillows for upwards of $300. The old saw - if U gotta ask the price - U can't afford it.
Hows about silk sheets???
Yes goose down is fabuluous and my cold weather goose down sleeping bag kept me warm at -20F at Everest Base camp.
Thorstein Veblen, whose conspicuous consumption theory has been well demonstrated here. Mattresses for $1K and pillows for upwards of $300. The old saw - if U gotta ask the price - U can't afford it.
Hows about silk sheets???
7
Another possible facet of this issue: when I described the intense brow-area headaches I am frequently awakened by at 3am, my chiropractor told me he thinks I am tensing my jaw, neck, shoulders and upper back in my sleep. I have tried a lot of pillows, and as mentioned by another commentor, they all work for a while and then the benefit wanes.
3
Pam, you need a night guard for your jaw clenching. forget the pillow issue. See your dentist.
5
Try getting fitted for a night guard at the dentist. It might help.
9
Sounds like what you really need is a mouthguard. Get your dentist to make one for you (don't go for the DIY ones) and you will likely relieve that stress on your jaw.
4
What nonsense. Buy a decent down pillow from LLBean and stop complaining. This is ridiculous.
The real problem is that people form all over the country are reading this drivel and thinking that this is how New Yorkers actually live. Paean to conspicuous consumption has it exactly right.
The real problem is that people form all over the country are reading this drivel and thinking that this is how New Yorkers actually live. Paean to conspicuous consumption has it exactly right.
28
I would like to thank Jim Rosenthal for this basic and excellent advice. I just ordered down pillows from LL Bean. And, by the way, they take returns.
1
How about NO PILLOW? Works for me.
17
“Orthopedic bedding is not a style you want to cleave to,at least for any length of time. You can’t mask an orthopedic pillow in a hand-blocked print from John Robshow,with its skate park like theme,and it would throw the Armada of a dressed bed into disarray. “
In that case, I suppose I should ditch the carpal tunnel splints which I’ve been cleaving to,for at least 8 years.and schedule the bilateral carpal tunnel surgery that had already been scheduled and canceled. Even the custom made splints my hand surgeon ordered ,which came with a choice of colors in velcro strips, threw the armada of my dressed bed into disarray,not to mention cleaving onto my bedding, sleepwear and most painfully, to my long hair.
On the other hand (pun unintended) ,despite detracting from the Armada of my dressed bed, these splints have saves me from bilateral carpal tunnel release surgery, just as I was about to undergo the knife,and have provided me with 95% relief of my pain,stopped the pins and needles that extended from my fingers up into my shoulders, and restored sensation to my hands. If I fall asleep for even a few hours without them, I experience tingling and numbness in my hands.
I do hope this is satire. “I’m an English Major” Mr.Camejo said.”So I’m not sure of the meaning of irony.” How ironic that an English major doesn’t know the meaning of irony. Or was that meant to be to be humorous ,as well?
In that case, I suppose I should ditch the carpal tunnel splints which I’ve been cleaving to,for at least 8 years.and schedule the bilateral carpal tunnel surgery that had already been scheduled and canceled. Even the custom made splints my hand surgeon ordered ,which came with a choice of colors in velcro strips, threw the armada of my dressed bed into disarray,not to mention cleaving onto my bedding, sleepwear and most painfully, to my long hair.
On the other hand (pun unintended) ,despite detracting from the Armada of my dressed bed, these splints have saves me from bilateral carpal tunnel release surgery, just as I was about to undergo the knife,and have provided me with 95% relief of my pain,stopped the pins and needles that extended from my fingers up into my shoulders, and restored sensation to my hands. If I fall asleep for even a few hours without them, I experience tingling and numbness in my hands.
I do hope this is satire. “I’m an English Major” Mr.Camejo said.”So I’m not sure of the meaning of irony.” How ironic that an English major doesn’t know the meaning of irony. Or was that meant to be to be humorous ,as well?
11
"How ironic that an English major doesn’t know the meaning of irony."
Your statement is not irony, it's situational humour. His sense of humour was very dry.
Your statement is not irony, it's situational humour. His sense of humour was very dry.
4
I'm sorry to hear about the discomfort that keeps you sleeping in splints. In my own experience, surgery was well worth it. I had bilateral carpal tunnel release done 30 years ago, for severe tingling and numbness in my hands and arms. I recovered quickly and completely, and the symptoms have never returned.
4
After many years using the same pillows (which now are flat as pancakes and just as supportive), I need new ones. Readers comments are remarkably helpful.
3
I'd transitioned down to a pretty thin pillow when I saw an article about going pillow free (how's that for anti-consumerism?): http://www.katysays.com/your-pillow-is-an-orthotic/
Fantastic read. Enjoy and save yourself the neck pain and the $330.
Fantastic read. Enjoy and save yourself the neck pain and the $330.
5
Aside from the expensive sales pitches and organic puff, it does seem there are quite a few satisfied buckwheat consumers out there.
For cheap, the person suggesting lowest-price down from Ikea and a little shaping before sleep seemed right to me.
For cheap, the person suggesting lowest-price down from Ikea and a little shaping before sleep seemed right to me.
12
There are no shortage of concepts, products, price ranges or approaches to comfortable sleeping. After trying most, if not all in the market, I found that The Pillow Bar products with 100% down offer the most consistent night sleep. Plus, they have different sizes and shapes for those dedicated to getting it right. Try their "Dr. Mary Side-sleeper." Traditional rectangular shapes have their time and place, but this "boomerang" shape really delivers.
3
Millet pillows are the best. No chemicals, adjustable, fits in standard pillow cases. My children use them too.
5
Great until mites take up residence in them, and then your eyes....
6
I love my buckwheat filled pillow. I'm a side sleeper and it's wonderfully comfortable. I honestly do not find the pillow to be loud.
Bonus: The pillow is always cool which is so nice.
I highly recommend a nice buckwheat filled pillow. If you can not find one in a local store you can find them online for order. The pillows are significantly heavier than the pillows people are used to. So the shipping might be a bit much but it's so worth it in the end.
Bonus: The pillow is always cool which is so nice.
I highly recommend a nice buckwheat filled pillow. If you can not find one in a local store you can find them online for order. The pillows are significantly heavier than the pillows people are used to. So the shipping might be a bit much but it's so worth it in the end.
19
Any of the so called organic pillows with buckwheat, eucalyptus and other plant derived fillers will create a lot of dust and is completely unsuitable for allergy sufferers. I had one of the worst asthma attacks after entering a store in Europe that sold so called eco-bedding.
13
Is there a reason why you can't buy the buckwheat fill a pillowcase and sew it up? Buckwheat pillow for much less than $117
6
Having just gone through the impossible "shop" for pillow/mattress, I have two things to say:
1. Avoid chemical fire retardants. They're carcinogenic.
2. Foams off-gas organic compounds (VOC's): at the least, if you go with foam, get bedding that addresses VOC's.
I understand that these two steps may extend the duration of sleep issues, along with life span, but I think the trade-off is eminently worthwhile.
1. Avoid chemical fire retardants. They're carcinogenic.
2. Foams off-gas organic compounds (VOC's): at the least, if you go with foam, get bedding that addresses VOC's.
I understand that these two steps may extend the duration of sleep issues, along with life span, but I think the trade-off is eminently worthwhile.
17
Another NYT article whose titled seemed to be of genuine interest, but which actual reading quickly revealed to be another fatuous Styles paean to conspicuous consumption...
202
I have rounded shoulders and the usual department store pillows leaves me with the feeling of falling backwards as they are too soft. For years I used heirloom feather pillows, but they eventually gave out I was in despair until I encountered the Schacter firm of 5 Cook St., Brooklyn. They make custom pillows of any desired firmness. After I explained my problem to the owner, he told me I needed their "cement pillow" that was 90% feather, 10% down. He had a sample made up for approval while I waited. It was perfect and I have been using it for a number of years. I asked if there was much demand for this model and he said there were quite a few people unsatisfied with what they could find in the stores.
Buckwheat pillows are the norm in Japan and I had no problem with them given by inclination for firmness. However, I found that the pillow and futon mattress were best for back and not side sleeping. I encountered a hotel that used pillows stuffed with short hard plastic tubes instead of buckwheat and the noise was terrible with every movement.
Buckwheat pillows are the norm in Japan and I had no problem with them given by inclination for firmness. However, I found that the pillow and futon mattress were best for back and not side sleeping. I encountered a hotel that used pillows stuffed with short hard plastic tubes instead of buckwheat and the noise was terrible with every movement.
2
I've slept on Wal-Pillows (under $100 and with adjustable sides) for 40 years. My doctor compared it to sleeping in traction. It's the only solution that works for me. When I travel, I use a rolled up towel--infinitely adjustable and most affordable!
2
I am a side sleeper and find that I do best with an almost flat pillow. My mattress is sort of medium firm. I bought one of those expensive gel/foam toppers to go on top of the mattress. My nearly flat pillow started out its life as a averagely thick pillow; I simply cut open one end and pulled out most of the filler. Then hand sewed the end shut.
Any pillow other than my nearly flat one gives me trouble. I pack it in my suitcase when I travel.
Any pillow other than my nearly flat one gives me trouble. I pack it in my suitcase when I travel.
4
Buckwheat pillow is nice, but crunchy can be annoying. I am using a Tempurpedic, the one that has rounded ends (not the one that's look mimics a pillow - it was comfy, but did not last long). The Tempurpedic has a soft side and a more firm side. The firm side is PERFECT for keeping my head and shoulders where they should be. It is hands down the BEST solution for me.
(not Nicholas Head, this is his wife writing!)
(not Nicholas Head, this is his wife writing!)
3
been using this for a couple of years and it is a perfect pillow for me, even stopped the loud snoring. I love it!
1
I never go anywhere without my pillows. Europe, hospitals - you name it, my pillows go with me. I can mange improper covers and a mattress that is not perfect, but not the wrong pillow.
I'm a side sleeper and prefer to sleep with two , low-fill 100% down pillows. The goose down ones last longer than duck down, but just buy what you can afford. Then on top of that goes my down boudoir pillow. That is the pillow that I can crush and pull and get "just right". If I had to do without one of my own big pillows, I would, but I will NEVER go anywhere without my boudoir pillow!
I agree with one poster - strength training is essential as we age - those muscles help hold up that "bowling ball". I've been doing this now since 1 July, and my back no longer aches, nor do my shoulders. Exercise, no drugs!
I'm a side sleeper and prefer to sleep with two , low-fill 100% down pillows. The goose down ones last longer than duck down, but just buy what you can afford. Then on top of that goes my down boudoir pillow. That is the pillow that I can crush and pull and get "just right". If I had to do without one of my own big pillows, I would, but I will NEVER go anywhere without my boudoir pillow!
I agree with one poster - strength training is essential as we age - those muscles help hold up that "bowling ball". I've been doing this now since 1 July, and my back no longer aches, nor do my shoulders. Exercise, no drugs!
31
I can exercise for free thanks to Aetna, but the gym instructors keep using their clumsy sales techniques on me so I don't go. Cushion, position, close please. Back to pillows goose down is the way to go. You don't have to buy them all at one time. Spend cash flow and somewhere you will encounter a sale.
what kind of exercises are you doing for strength training of your neck, to better support your head?
I have exactly same setup and its wonderful. I love my old gross little goose down pillow as i can always make it support my head i have a cervical spine muscle issue called cervical dystonia and this arrangement on my side really helps
I've been sleeping on buckwheat for the past month and love it. I like to push plenty of BW under my neck for support. Works great.
3
Best to nip these shoulder and neck pains in the bud. Stand at your desk at work. I had pains for years, they got worse and worse. But all is much improved since I began to stand at my desk, rather than sit hunched and leaning on my elbows.
13
Then you can kiss your hips goodbye.
3
Get a Trekdesk and put a treadmill under it, and it really helps. I can now stand it to be on the phone and computer all day
3
I have both a sitting desk and a standing desk. I have a lot more hip pain when I sit all day than when I stand for a few hours.
1
A while ago I read that some huge portion of people in the world sleep on the floor each night. 80%? And there are those stone pillows in the museums, I don't remember from which culture. Asian perhaps.
I have never had a problem with sleeping on the floor, and have done so in hotels with a chair cushion as a pillow if I don't like the bed. My spouse makes me promise not to do that sometimes. The floor seems hard for about 10 minutes then somehow the body adjusts. Is there a moral here?
I have a very bad back, by the way, but never found that sleeping items made the least difference, except that laying on the floor is a help when it goes out, support under the knees..
As for pillows, I have different kinds, mostly foam, usually purchased when I thought mine were too tired looking for guests.. when we bought the last mattress, two temperpedic pillows came with. I guess they are OK. all pillows change after going through the washer. (Can you wash buckwheat pillows? )
I have never had a problem with sleeping on the floor, and have done so in hotels with a chair cushion as a pillow if I don't like the bed. My spouse makes me promise not to do that sometimes. The floor seems hard for about 10 minutes then somehow the body adjusts. Is there a moral here?
I have a very bad back, by the way, but never found that sleeping items made the least difference, except that laying on the floor is a help when it goes out, support under the knees..
As for pillows, I have different kinds, mostly foam, usually purchased when I thought mine were too tired looking for guests.. when we bought the last mattress, two temperpedic pillows came with. I guess they are OK. all pillows change after going through the washer. (Can you wash buckwheat pillows? )
10
You can wash buckwheat pillows. You just dump the hulls out and wash the fabric case. I've read that you can "clean" the hulls by just putting them in the sun. I keep my case pretty clean, so I haven't felt like the hulls needed to be cleaned or replaced yet. I've had mine for about 4 years.
3
@N: You're on to something re: sleeping on the floor. My father always slept on the floor when he traveled anywhere. As he put it: mattresses vary greatly, but the floor is always predictably firm!
3
I've been a practicing chiropractor for 39 years and while I often help others with their neck problems I haven't found any relief for my own, save strengthening exercises. I don't think there is a pillow on the market that costs under $100 that I haven't tried. Every one seemed to help...for a week or two. I have so many on hand now that I just continually switch one for another for the temporary relief it provides. And as has been mentioned by others I have not found any relationship between price and benefit.
9
I suffered from intense daily headaches for years. I sought treatment everywhere -- top-ranked headache clinics and neurologists, dentists, sleep doctors, acupuncturists, optometrists, orthopedists, physical therapy, etc. Nothing helped. Then one day on a whim at BJ's I purchased a $30 memory foam cooling pillow. Almost immediately, I had dramatic improvements with the headaches. The frequency was reduced to a handful of times per month and intensity when they did hit was manageable. From this I learned that 1) a proper pillow can make a huge difference in helping your body function properly, and 2) that pillow does not have to be a bank-breaker.
26
Stick a couple of them under your knees and sleep on your back.
2
I've been a back sleeper since I was a kid, and always rolled a flat pillow under my neck for support. Now I sleep with a fleece "DogBones" pillow and nothing under my head. IT supports the neck and also supports my head when I turn it to either side. I've not met anyone else who is exclusively a back sleeper, but it's perfect for me -- and inexpensive. No need for pillow cases, just pop it in the wash every so often.
1
Wow, never knew it was so hard to sleep. I hope this new knowledge doesn't affect my ability to do what come naturally.
14
I've tried a number of pillows over the years:
basic poly-fill foam (horrible with no redeeming qualities other than inexpensive)
down-filled (feels very nice and dreamy to lay your head on at first, and they sure do look nice and fluffy/inviting on your bed, but eventually the pillow flattens during sleep and offers no true support)
Tempurpedic foam (doesn't have that nice fluffy look as a down pillow does but overall it provides good support for back' and side-laying people like myself)
Buckwheat pillow (also doesn't offer the nice fluffy inviting look that down pillows do on your bed, but this is hands-down my favorite pillow for support. What's great is that you can 'gather' the hulls into any formation, especially when laying on your back, so that every single inch of your neck - back and sides - are all cradled by the firm hulls. The hulls pretty much 'stay in position' but at the same time can be easily readjusted, say, if you want to move from your back to laying on your side.
basic poly-fill foam (horrible with no redeeming qualities other than inexpensive)
down-filled (feels very nice and dreamy to lay your head on at first, and they sure do look nice and fluffy/inviting on your bed, but eventually the pillow flattens during sleep and offers no true support)
Tempurpedic foam (doesn't have that nice fluffy look as a down pillow does but overall it provides good support for back' and side-laying people like myself)
Buckwheat pillow (also doesn't offer the nice fluffy inviting look that down pillows do on your bed, but this is hands-down my favorite pillow for support. What's great is that you can 'gather' the hulls into any formation, especially when laying on your back, so that every single inch of your neck - back and sides - are all cradled by the firm hulls. The hulls pretty much 'stay in position' but at the same time can be easily readjusted, say, if you want to move from your back to laying on your side.
8
I am a side sleeper and use a Tempurpedic foam pillow (bigger lump in front, lower in the back). I like it enough that I bought a smaller travel size one to take with me., especially if I'm going to be away for several nights. Also agree with Suz C's advice to exercise, exercise, exercise.
6
Lower pillow works better for me.Higher bends my neck and uncomfortable.
3
I suffer sleeping on fancy oversized pillows of all sorts, especially the kind in hotels. Last year I tried sleeping on a couple of buckwheat pillows in a hotel in Asia and found this to be a great solution. I bought one when I returned home and adjusted the amount of buckwheat to be comfortable and now don't have to wait until foam or feather pillows deflate enough to be comfortable. They are not for everyone - some hate the noise that they make as you move your head, but this side sleeper is very happy.
29
I've gained more value from the readers' comments than from the puff-piece promo pillow-pushing article.
207
What's not addressed here is WHY we have neck pain. As we get older, this seems to happen to many of us. It happened to this "old" lady at 69, gradually turning into a nightmare of seeking relief. The buckwheat pillow was a beginning and I still use it. But my cure was strength training. Build those neck muscles, traps and deltoids, beef up those back and core muscles and next thing you know, your neck feels better because it has so much more help carrying around its 18-lb. head. Now at 72, my muscles continue to be very helpful in many ways.
170
Cured a 2 year neck pain,by doing neck strengthening exercises.Stretching didn't do any good,but strengthening did.
65
Please please could someone who has commented on neck strengthening exercises describe what they are. I am 71 and been in constant neck pain for the past 4 months. I spend a lot of time sitting/working at computer and have tried so many things but don't know what to do.
5
@Terry O: Neck pain can be due to many causes, so it's good to have an orthopedist check you out. Then have that doctor give you a prescription for physical therapy. A really good physical therapist can use heat, ultrasound, massage, and traction to help mobilize your neck.
Further, the physical therapist can give you exercises that are customized for YOU - to stretch and/or to strengthen. You may be pleasantly amazed by how much better you will feel - and by doing the prescribed stretches/exercises at home, you'll find that you can do quite a lot to keep yourself out of pain.
Beyond this, you'd need to become aware of your posture at the computer if you want to maintain pain-free mobility of your neck & head. We *all* tend to slump at the keyboard; it takes some training to remind ourselves to sit up correctly - but many of us can't possibly sit up correctly until physical therapy helps get our necks moving correctly again. Thus I really recommend physical therapy as a starting point.
Further, the physical therapist can give you exercises that are customized for YOU - to stretch and/or to strengthen. You may be pleasantly amazed by how much better you will feel - and by doing the prescribed stretches/exercises at home, you'll find that you can do quite a lot to keep yourself out of pain.
Beyond this, you'd need to become aware of your posture at the computer if you want to maintain pain-free mobility of your neck & head. We *all* tend to slump at the keyboard; it takes some training to remind ourselves to sit up correctly - but many of us can't possibly sit up correctly until physical therapy helps get our necks moving correctly again. Thus I really recommend physical therapy as a starting point.
2
I have a Hullo buckwheat pillow ($79). It took me awhile to get used to it, but once I did, I loved it. Like most, I was acclimated to traditional "soft" pillows made of down or foam, so sleeping on something so different was initially a little jarring.
As far as my experience goes, there are two keys to sleeping on a buckwheat pillow:
1) Adjust the amount of buckwheat hull fill so that your head is in a neutral position (not too high, not too low) and feels most comfortable. Mine was a little full when I got it and it felt too firm, but removing some hulls made it feel "softer" - I suppose because there's more room inside the case for them to move around.
2. Learn to "fluff" it so that it is supporting your head and neck. You need to sort of push it into the empty spaces between your head and the mattress to get the real benefits.
As far as my experience goes, there are two keys to sleeping on a buckwheat pillow:
1) Adjust the amount of buckwheat hull fill so that your head is in a neutral position (not too high, not too low) and feels most comfortable. Mine was a little full when I got it and it felt too firm, but removing some hulls made it feel "softer" - I suppose because there's more room inside the case for them to move around.
2. Learn to "fluff" it so that it is supporting your head and neck. You need to sort of push it into the empty spaces between your head and the mattress to get the real benefits.
25
For my senses, a relatively hard mattress is where to start. Soft mattresses seem fine for 15 minutes, but don't give any support, so it is hard to fit a pillow to something so..mushy. So, it is a rebuilt horsehair mattress for me (said to be good for 50 years).
3
The only solution to my sleep issues came to me when I discovered the pillow that was made just for my personal sleep style and physical size. The Pillow Bar is my answer and I give them as gifts to everyone I know with sleep issues.
6
I can't sleep without my memory foam wedge (head at high end) and three down pillows to scrunch and squish around my head, neck and shoulders. Ah, sink into comfort and a full night's sleep.
3
Hoping for some sort of wisdom here, I am disappointed to read that nothing seems to make a difference regardless of price so I guess I'll continue to purchase a new inexpensive poly filled pillow every three months and give the dog shelter the cast-offs.
25
I'm a stomach sleeper and use a half pillow. This thin pillow allows me to get a good night's sleep. The pillow was advertised as being for stomach sleepers.
13
Just a note that I, too, was a stomach sleeper for 35 years, until debilitating pain struck where my neck joins my spine. It was from years of sleeping with my head raised and turned to a side, which, over time, resulted in a pinched nerve. Physical therapy helped a great deal, but i can never sleep on my stomach again...although every fiber of my body still wants to. It took a long time to be able to sleep on my side. Clutching a pillow to my stomach helps toward getting the stomach-sleeping feeling I'd like. What happened to me is typical of what happens to stomach sleepers, so think about changing.
9
This is all very helpful for people with money to burn, but even affluent people like value and a good bargain. What should a normal person look for at Macy's or bed, Bath and Beyond. I've bought relative expensive pillows that have lost their body fairly quickly and cheapies that worked for years, along with everything in between and I still never know what to pick.
86
I bought a Charter Club down filled pillow in Macy's for about $50 two years ago and am still very pleased with it. The pillows come in different versions for side or back sleepers. I place a cheap flat poly pillow between my legs as I am a side sleeper.
5
The "my neck is killing me" cure:
1. Get 3 real as in NO substitutes Tempurpedic pillows (expensive but worth every penny)
2. Sleep ONLY on your back on 1 of the pillows (ahhhhhhh!!!)
3. Put the other 2 pillows under your legs right at the crook of your knees
CURED!!
1. Get 3 real as in NO substitutes Tempurpedic pillows (expensive but worth every penny)
2. Sleep ONLY on your back on 1 of the pillows (ahhhhhhh!!!)
3. Put the other 2 pillows under your legs right at the crook of your knees
CURED!!
11
And if you are a side sleeper, put a pillow between your knees to keep your spine straight. Tempurpedics ( not the knock-offs) are expensive but they are an excellent pillow.
23
I've used a Makura buckwheat husk pillow for almost 30 years. As a practicing dentist, my head is hanging at unnatural angles every day and the strain on the neck muscels and spine is extreme. I tried a variety of pillows but found that they all put my neck in the exact SAME position - looking downward - that I was trying to avoid. Stand up straight and look down at your feet; that's the same position you are in when lying on your back in bed with a big "supportive" pillow under your head. Your head is forced toward your feet. However, the the buckwheat pillow you can pound a depression in the middle of the pillow so that the back of your head is resting almost flat on the mattress; you are now looking UP at the ceiling and NOT at your feet. You can now mold the surrounding pillow to the sides of your head and neck so that your head doesn't loll or tip to the side. It's almost the same thing a hospital would do if you had suffered a cervical injury - immobilize your head. Even if you sleep on your side you can mold the pillow to your comfort because unlike every other pillow out there, there's no bounceback. Give it a try and I think you will be very happy with the results….
56
I wish the reviewer would have tried a custom-made pillow by The Pillow Bar. They are made out of 100% down, and custom made to the sleeper's size and sleeping style (back, side or front). That's what I'm saving up for! They feel like heaven.
11
It seems no amount of money spent on exotic pillows will cure our neck, shoulder and back aches. That is, not until we address the root of the problem and find a proper way to stare into our smart phones, laptops and computers.
53
I don't know what to say. This is disgusting. Before buying such over priced whooey, why didn't she take the advice of Dr. Goblin and stay away from the high cost marketing gimmicks that cater to the status seeking wealthy.
What did the NYT spend on this organic artisanal latex free fluff? Shame.
What did the NYT spend on this organic artisanal latex free fluff? Shame.
102
Am I the rarity that sleep on all four planes? I generally sleep on my right side or my back but I do utilize my left side and occasionally my chest, or at least I am aware of doing so at times of difficult sleep. I've always had decent luck with feather pillows and have abhorred foam ones. (In Viet Nam a rock oftentimes helped out!!) I will agree that finding that magic pillow or mattress is a difficult exercise and can be quite costly if the chosen one winds up not fulfilling in the long run.
7
This seems to complicate what turned out to be a simple answer. When sleeping on my side, which is all I can do; A firm pillow keeps my head up and pressure off my shoulder (which has had two operations). A second, small pillow, for when I try laying on my stomach. It goes under that shoulder and chest so my head is not at such a bad angle. All combined with one of those expensive "Memory" mattresses. Thanks anyway.
I recommend a circle pillow found at cvs in their "as seen on tv" section especially for back sleep (your head is cradled and neck supported) and the forbidden stomach sleeping (using the side helps keep the neck straight and not to the side).
Sometimes I still use my 30 yr old squashed very flat pillow.
Did get a new flatish one at Vermont Country Store but it had a terrible chemical smell that I've been letting it outgas and have not tried it. All the pillows in the article seem awfully big.
Sometimes I still use my 30 yr old squashed very flat pillow.
Did get a new flatish one at Vermont Country Store but it had a terrible chemical smell that I've been letting it outgas and have not tried it. All the pillows in the article seem awfully big.
2
Having read this entire article, I found nothing of value to it. We are not really even treated to a so called road test of pillows.
138
The reviews are in the slide show.
2
Sounds more like money driving this "renaissance" in pillow design and sales, than any effort to fix a neck or back problem. No surprise, maybe just another scam?
30
Straight out foam rubber in the traditional rectangle works best. Of course, my husband loves his ancient feather pillow (which grosses me out, think of the mites living in it! ) so maybe there isn't a one-fits-all pillow make out there.
3
You forgot to examine the single, economic, best solution. The long, round pillow which the French call " le traversin"
http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traversin
I have been using it for more than 20 years and my, like yours, long suffering neck has been completely silent. And grateful.
Must try to believe it although I guess it might not work for everybody.
http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traversin
I have been using it for more than 20 years and my, like yours, long suffering neck has been completely silent. And grateful.
Must try to believe it although I guess it might not work for everybody.
2
Simple and cheap solution for my neck pain: bought the cheapest down pillow from IKEA - about $12, I think. Punch it down near the center, lie on your back with your head in the depression, little ridge of pillow supporting your neck (adjust the size of the ridge by where you punch the pillow), tug the corners of the pillow nearest you toward your shoulders so that the pillow is a bit snugged and voila! A cheap and effective solution for some. Good luck.
76
Sounds about right. Must be why mine work. Setting them up properly is key.
3
Down pillows are excellent for just what you described. I LOVE my down pillow - I’d never have anything else!
2
OMG now that I am old, and arthritic, I can no longer sleep on any mattress or any pillow. So this article is right up my alley as I am pillow shopping. I never had sore shoulder or arms and now I have both.
3
I'm telling you, the best pillow I have ever tried, and I absolutely swear by it, is the Novum pillow by the German company Billerbeck. It has three layers, so you can remove one if you need to for optimal head height. It completely solved what I thought was chronic neck pain. Costs about 100 euros. A lifesaver.
12
In love with my pillow, newly purchased at Relax the Back, Tucson, AZ ($139). From K-Lex, Ventura, CA, it is the K-Lex Side Sleeper. They stated it was for side sleepers, but as a back sleeper, for me it's wonderful. Somewhat molded, it nestles (as you wish) around the head with good neck support. For me, it's perfect.
3
I have a number of sleep issues and intermittent neck and shoulder pain as well, and for more than a decade, I've sworn by buckwheat pillows--the larger and firmer, the better. They provide both support and contouring, are never uncomfortable in summer, and they can be hung up out in the sun to be refreshed and deodorized. The "crunching" noise doesn't bother me--I'm asleep, right?--and there are no overwhelming chemical or botanical smells to contend with. I've also had success with similar-sized pillows filled with what looks like hard plastic salad macaroni. Not quite as comfortable as buckwheat, but easy-care (just empty the "macaroni" into a plastic bag before washing the cover), odor-free, and again, cool in the summer. When I travel, even the "firmest" hotel pillow leaves me feeling like I'm suffocating on a face full of marshmallow, so I'll bring along a small, travel-size buckwheat cushion as a standby.
36
Love, love my buckwheat pillow. Bought it because I use a CPAC machine and regular pillows didn't work as I am a side sleeper.
1
Wow, what sad reviews, nothing to tempt me amongst these pillows! About four years ago, I did get two pretty comfortable pillows online from Garnet Hill ...too bad you did not review any of theirs.....I checked my receipt and I spent about $40 for each pillow....
20
Agree, these were sort of esoteric choices and overlooked the online choices available to a wide range of readers. I have had good luck with pillows available online and through the catalog of The Company Store. I also get the Garnet Hill catalog.