All credit to Malcolm Butler, who made maybe the greatest play in Super Bowl history. Without his read of the play, speed and toughness holding onto the ball we're not having this discussion. Also give Belichick credit for finding Butler in the first place and preparing his players so well they knew the Seattle offense better than the Seahawks did — and for not calling timeout when everyone in the universe thought that was the obvious move.
26
The pass goes for a touchdown, the same critics are praising Carroll and the Seahawks to the high heavens, instead they get intercepted and the same critics are running the Seahawks down.
14
Doncha just love the monday morning quarterbacking. OK, it did start 3 seconds after the interception with Collingsworth, but you get the point.
The only reason the Seahawks and their mourners are still crying about Carroll's call is because it failed. They were high fiving the same coach and OC at the end of the 1H when Seattle inexplicably went for and got the TD. When you gamble, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Far more damaging to further success in Seattle is the complete meltdown of the players at the end of the game. Encroachment when there was a good chance that Brady could give up a safety and with it a chance for another Seattle passing miracle. Then the complete loss of cool when the thugs started sucker-punching the Pats linemen.
Seattle has mediocre wide receivers, one of whom is the most vulgar player ever to wear an NFL uniform. They have a history of locker room intrigue that led to getting rid of their only good WR, who subsequently did squat for the Jets. Seems like Carroll, Wilson and the OC did something right for two years.
Seattle players are their own worst enemies. When they don't get all the lucky breaks like they did with GB or on their final drive vs NE, they implode. Maybe Allen will fire the prima donnas, extend the class players like Wilson and, yes, Sherman and then Seattle will get better and maybe someday play in a championship game with a championship team.
Not any time soon, though.
The only reason the Seahawks and their mourners are still crying about Carroll's call is because it failed. They were high fiving the same coach and OC at the end of the 1H when Seattle inexplicably went for and got the TD. When you gamble, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Far more damaging to further success in Seattle is the complete meltdown of the players at the end of the game. Encroachment when there was a good chance that Brady could give up a safety and with it a chance for another Seattle passing miracle. Then the complete loss of cool when the thugs started sucker-punching the Pats linemen.
Seattle has mediocre wide receivers, one of whom is the most vulgar player ever to wear an NFL uniform. They have a history of locker room intrigue that led to getting rid of their only good WR, who subsequently did squat for the Jets. Seems like Carroll, Wilson and the OC did something right for two years.
Seattle players are their own worst enemies. When they don't get all the lucky breaks like they did with GB or on their final drive vs NE, they implode. Maybe Allen will fire the prima donnas, extend the class players like Wilson and, yes, Sherman and then Seattle will get better and maybe someday play in a championship game with a championship team.
Not any time soon, though.
18
I am a Patriots fan but I think this column is not correct. Pete Carroll made a call for the ages, true, and I agree, it was just awful. But had it worked, and it had a good chance of working, he would have been called a genius for sending in a play that had an elegant flair to it. But it was not to be due to an outstanding defensive play on the ball and Carroll is the goat for it. Despite the results his team seems to be sticking by him at least publically, which I think says a lot. I am not minimizing the disappointment and anger Seattle fans and players are feeling. But Carroll is taking the heat, not whining, he is taking full responsibility and recriminations from fans and pundits alike. Seattle has had two great seasons with him as coach and won a Superbowl. Somebody was instrumental in getting them there. Why would the players not trust him? More likely they are really mad at him and admittedly baffled and disappointed and 'communicated' to him and the coach in charge of the offense. But it doesn't seem likely that he will have to win back his players' confidence. Seahawks are an excellent football team and they will likely be back to a third Super Bowl.
But this time, if they are on the 1/2 yard line again, the play sent in from the sidelines might be little different.
But this time, if they are on the 1/2 yard line again, the play sent in from the sidelines might be little different.
14
I'm a Pats fan, and I'm glad they won, but I think all of this "Oh, how will Seattle ever recover" talk is bunk. That's a great football team. They will be back, and probably be better for having lost this one. When the Pats won three out of four, there was a year when they didn't even make the playoffs. They seemed to recover - they've been at or near the top ever since. Seattle has the same opportunity. They will be back.
16
Agree and would go a bit further in that it is not that Carroll will have to win back his players but rather the other way around; IMHO an objective assessment would conclude that at the end Seattle was unable to 'steal' a game they had not played well enough to win in the first place.
9
Several posts here alluded to the news that all but one of the 11 "deflated" Patriots' footballs found at halftime in the AFC championship game was 2 psi under the 12.5 limit. The rest (10) were, according to the NFL release below only "a few ticks under the regulation pressure". The under inflation is readily explained as being the result of temperature differences between the equipment room and the playing field (disclosure: yes I am a physicist). For those still believing that all 11 balls were deliberately underinflated by 2 psi or more can find the actual NFL statement at:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-t...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-t...
24
OK Yes Lynch may have scored, but earlier in the game after the Patriots had scored to get within 3, Wilson handed the ball off to Lynch on a critical 3 & 1. He did not convert it into a first down, and the Seahawks punted. Patriots drove downteh field for the winning score. No has mentioned this and did this have an impact on the coaching staffs decision?
Butler made a great defensive read and knew where Wilson was going to throw the ball before the receiver did and got their first. Not a Seahawk misplay, just a Partiot Player making a better play. As Belichick said after half time. Game will be decided by better players making better plays. Butler made a better play that the Seahawks WR.
Butler made a great defensive read and knew where Wilson was going to throw the ball before the receiver did and got their first. Not a Seahawk misplay, just a Partiot Player making a better play. As Belichick said after half time. Game will be decided by better players making better plays. Butler made a better play that the Seahawks WR.
23
Rhoden throws out the same tripe. Hey, if he gets his clicks on his columns, I guess he's happy. But it would be nice if he added something to the discussion, instead of just trying to be inflammatory.
His transparent venom directed towards the Patriots I do however, take great delight in.
His transparent venom directed towards the Patriots I do however, take great delight in.
7
Does anyone doubt that Brady would have changed the call at the line of scrimmage?
With all of the emphasis on the final play, it seems forgotten that the vaunted Seattle defense squandered a 10 point lead late in the game. The talk is that Marshawn Lynch going in for a touchdown was a given. It was pretty likely. But great goal line stands are built on stopping what seems to be a sure thing. It took the entire Seattle team to lose that game, not one call or one play.
15
Wrong again Mr. Rhoden! Sub Brady for Wilson in that same situation and you STILL hand ball off to Lynch.
A slant route over the middle ... really? However your comment about called play being 'ego driven' is spot on. But you sound like a NY 'homer' & Boston 'hater' for continuing to mention deflation.
A slant route over the middle ... really? However your comment about called play being 'ego driven' is spot on. But you sound like a NY 'homer' & Boston 'hater' for continuing to mention deflation.
6
Blaming the loss on one debatable play is typical. All would have been unnecessary had Seattle kept NE out of the end zone once in the waning minutes. The Seattle defense has no standing to criticize the play. Nor, really, does anyone else.
6
Why did Seattle lose this game? Not the final play call but rather:
1. The offense made one first down in the first quarter, total Time of Possession in the Q: 4 minutes.
2. It did not record its second first down until there were 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter; in the first 8 minutes of the Q ToP 2½ minutes
-in the first 23 minutes of the game they were outplayed on both sides of the ball and the reason they were not in a 14-0 hole at that point was that Brady threw an ill-advised uncharacteristic pass deep in the red zone that was intercepted
3. On the aforementioned INT Jeremy Lane was lost for the game and Brady later would exploit his replacement.
4. The offense made a first down with about 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, it did not make another 1st down until there were 2 minutes left in the 4th. Seattle ToP in that 15 minute stretch: 4 minutes.
5. The defense which in its 8 previous games had yielded a total of 13 points in the 4th quarter gave up two TDs on a pair of ~65 yard drives which took 9 minutes off of the clock.
Seattle lost because they were outplayed on both sides of the ball in the first quarter and a half and again for the 15 minutes preceding the two minute warning, in which they lost a 10 point lead they had built by outplaying New England on both sides of the ball in the 3rd Quarter after brilliantly driving 80 yard in less than 30 seconds at the close of the first half.
They lost the game in the first 58 minutes, not in the last 26 seconds.
1. The offense made one first down in the first quarter, total Time of Possession in the Q: 4 minutes.
2. It did not record its second first down until there were 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter; in the first 8 minutes of the Q ToP 2½ minutes
-in the first 23 minutes of the game they were outplayed on both sides of the ball and the reason they were not in a 14-0 hole at that point was that Brady threw an ill-advised uncharacteristic pass deep in the red zone that was intercepted
3. On the aforementioned INT Jeremy Lane was lost for the game and Brady later would exploit his replacement.
4. The offense made a first down with about 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, it did not make another 1st down until there were 2 minutes left in the 4th. Seattle ToP in that 15 minute stretch: 4 minutes.
5. The defense which in its 8 previous games had yielded a total of 13 points in the 4th quarter gave up two TDs on a pair of ~65 yard drives which took 9 minutes off of the clock.
Seattle lost because they were outplayed on both sides of the ball in the first quarter and a half and again for the 15 minutes preceding the two minute warning, in which they lost a 10 point lead they had built by outplaying New England on both sides of the ball in the 3rd Quarter after brilliantly driving 80 yard in less than 30 seconds at the close of the first half.
They lost the game in the first 58 minutes, not in the last 26 seconds.
17
Ok Mr. Rhoden, I get it, you don't like the Patriots. Fine, I can live with that. And thanks for mentioning hidden cameras, deflated balls, bla bla bla. All I can say is GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!!
10
The press is making a mountain out of nothing all just to attract readers. Second guessing a failed play after the fact is easy, making the decision before the play is hard. All the armchair coaches in the press have NEVER had to make a real decision in a pro game, they DON'T know anything and their second guessing is just to generate readership - THAT is their job!
4
The reference to Hernandez is bad journalism, a writer searching for something to say.
I'm a Patriots fan, but the odds of that interception at the goal line are tiny, let's face it. The Seahawks could just as easily have won, and the media would be saying how great they are, how Brady is washed up, etc. It was a tremendous finish and one team had to lose. I don't see any larger story than that.
I'm a Patriots fan, but the odds of that interception at the goal line are tiny, let's face it. The Seahawks could just as easily have won, and the media would be saying how great they are, how Brady is washed up, etc. It was a tremendous finish and one team had to lose. I don't see any larger story than that.
18
We have been provided with another serving of sour grapes from William Rhoden. An announcement was made on NFL.com that only one football (the one handled by the Colts) was 2 psi underinflated. There is no reason to believe that the other footballs lost small amounts of PSI by anything other than normal use.
I just don't understand why jealousy would compel sportswriters to follow this line of reasoning. If Bill Belichick had the long track record of rules violations that Pete Carroll has, then one can imagine what some sportswriters would be saying.
I just don't understand why jealousy would compel sportswriters to follow this line of reasoning. If Bill Belichick had the long track record of rules violations that Pete Carroll has, then one can imagine what some sportswriters would be saying.
18
Never ceases to amaze how sportswriters are allowed or even encouraged to run with theories and grand claims entirely unsupported by evidence, quotes, facts or plain old reporting. Tbe writer asserts that Carroll has lost the players' faith and must work to win them back, but offers not a shred of evidence to support this dubious clsim. This coach just led a perenially losing team to two straight super bowls, and we're to believe the team no longer trusts him?
6
"Would anyone have doubted a pass called for Tom Brady in the same situation?" if the Pats had Marshawn Lynch, YES! Even so, I give Brady a better chance of making that throw. He's better than Russell Wilson, and at his 7 inch height advantage over Wilson, in a congested, shortened ( it doesnt get any shorter) field, it's an easier throw. Then again, don' t underestimate the rookie corner's inspired play. He's Seattle's Bucky Dent.
And for pure drama, what would have been more awesome than a Mano a Mano set piece of the Mighty Marshawn Lynch trying to impose his will on the Pats. Alas, it was not meant to be.
Boston fans get a Karmic balance here for Mookie Wilson, about tge best they can hope for. Only the most benighted members of Pats Nation (not counting little boys under tge age of ten) are entitled to crow.
And for pure drama, what would have been more awesome than a Mano a Mano set piece of the Mighty Marshawn Lynch trying to impose his will on the Pats. Alas, it was not meant to be.
Boston fans get a Karmic balance here for Mookie Wilson, about tge best they can hope for. Only the most benighted members of Pats Nation (not counting little boys under tge age of ten) are entitled to crow.
4
The former Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez is the defendant in a murder trial underway in Fall River, Mass.
Is this some joke? As if the Patriots organization is responsible for the bad person behavior of one of its employees. All part of the the left wing media's agenda of hate toward men. Reminds me of the tarring of fraternities at UVA after Rolling Stone published a made up account of a rape.
Is this some joke? As if the Patriots organization is responsible for the bad person behavior of one of its employees. All part of the the left wing media's agenda of hate toward men. Reminds me of the tarring of fraternities at UVA after Rolling Stone published a made up account of a rape.
2
Recover??? We already have. Not sure what universe you occupy. My "lingering question" is why you would think Pete Carroll has to "win back his players?" Disappointment? Sure. Devastation? No. Pete Carroll and the Seahawks biggest job ahead of them is to be patient with people who make up stuff about them.
3
Mr. Rhoden has greatly exaggerated the plight of Pete Carroll. As the week has gone by, more people are realizing that the call, while maybe not the one they would make, did make sense. Certainly the statistics about 4th and one now bear that out. I have not heard or seen anything to indicate that Carroll will "have to win back his players." It came down to good scouting by the Patriot staff, and better execution by the secondary. If Wilson had put the ball low and down like so many quarterbacks do in that situation, it would have been either a touchdown or incomplete. If you want to question a crazy call that actually worked, how about the 4th down and 11 yards to go play right before the first half ended. Not too many coaches would trade a sure field goal for that situation. Gutsy--maybe. Lucky--definitely. However, I don't think you'll see that call again any time soon.
3
Pete Caroll was an excellent coach for the NE Patriots. He was an excellent coach for USC and is an excellent coach for Seattle. The call was a bone head call. Several years ago in a clutch situation 4th down and 4 Belichick called a pass play against the Indy Colts. The pass was completed for 3 total yards and the pats lost the game and the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP. Bellichick has said he is now INDY'S favorite opponent coach because of that bone head call. Pete Carroll is a great coach and he is even greater, in my view, becuase of that bone head play he called.
1
People make assumptions based on collected facts. We know it's not an exact science, but this is how most humans figure things out. The Patriots have been identified as playing fast and loose with the rules before. Then all of a sudden all their game balls but one is below the mandated PSI. It is logical to assume the Patriots had something to do with it. They are the Champs. Make no mistake about it. The champions of a league that is clearly just part of the entertainment business. Last time I checked a defender is not allowed to touch a receiver when the ball is in the air. The replay clearly shows Butler knocking Lockett out of the way to catch the ball. Nothing was called. So all you Patriots fans need to understand that because your team is disliked, there will always be issues. Just take your Super Bowl Trophy and go into your snow cave. Be happy the Giants weren't there to stop you again.
Of course Butler was not called for interference. From the NFL rulebook:
Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:
(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball.
seems to me that the fact Butler CAUGHT the ball means he was competing for it.
Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:
(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball.
seems to me that the fact Butler CAUGHT the ball means he was competing for it.
6
The Super Bowl is over. We're glad we won. The parade of the duck boats was yesterday. Today Bill Belichick is planning for next year, planning on resigning free agents, planning on developing new strategies and tactics, teaching a new generation of assistant assistants how to breakdown film.
16
And the beat goes on. I'm already in football withdrawal--the only sport I'm passionate about. It will be interesting to see how next year's roster shapes up. And how Tom holds up with Alex Guerrero helping him along. If this year provides any proof, I suspect he will do very, very well.
4
Seattle's window of opportunity is closing. For the last 3 years, they've had an extra $19.5M is salary cap space as they were paying Russell Wilson $500,000 instead of the $20M he will most likely command. I'm not saying they can't repeat, but they will have to do it with a lot less in cap space than they've enjoyed.
12
that all may be true but I visited Seattle's Children's Hospital yesterday only to run into Russell Wilson already in his routine of stopping in on kids to wish them well. The Super Bowl? oh that was Sunday. Long gone. Seattle is back in the saddle, helping kids, moving forward.
41
Of course Wilson will get away from the SB as fast as possible. He is the real goat of the game, not Carroll.
You make a good point. Many football players accomplish greater things off the field than they do on. Of course I root for the Pats whose support of numerous charities and causes around Boston is legend.
But I think Wilson is special because his is an individual service outside the formal service allegiances of owner and team.
But I think Wilson is special because his is an individual service outside the formal service allegiances of owner and team.
3
Let's just say, that not everyone who lives in Boston and the surrounding neighborhoods are football fans. Quite a few of us are still digging up through snows, never mind trying to find a parking spot on the street, and the crowds are spilling over to everywhere. Ok, so the Pats won and Boston feels honored, but can't this parade be postponed until the snow is all cleared? I'm still fuming every time I hear Marty Walsh talks about this parade.
1
You think the SB parade is bad? Wait until Marty (the NEW mayor-for-life) and Suffolk Construction & Mr. Fish get their Olympics in Boston.
Marty will get the equivalent of yesterday's SB parade *every day* for a couple of years. "Fun, fun, fun" for everyone in Boston who is not a union member, owner of a construction company, or a politico who is basking in *his* moment of glory.
You'll look back at the SB parade with fondness.
Marty will get the equivalent of yesterday's SB parade *every day* for a couple of years. "Fun, fun, fun" for everyone in Boston who is not a union member, owner of a construction company, or a politico who is basking in *his* moment of glory.
You'll look back at the SB parade with fondness.
Stuff and nonsense. A couple of points:
"... the Patriots may yet have to explain how they came to use underinflated footballs in their win in the A.F.C. championship game."
Um, proof? Of course he doesn't have any and when the league issues its final investigation, the results will clear the Pats of any supposed skullduggery. Oh and by the way, BOTH teams played with the same football so let's dispense with this silly meme. There's no there, there.
Other point - and here I'm using a Rhodenism -- but it's the players who win or lose the games, not the coaches. Wilson's just not as good as Rhoden has puffed him up to be. He got lucky with that heave that his receiver bobbled and caught. But when it was crunch time, he threw an interception. That's on him, not Carroll.
Oh, and you owe Brady an apology for your constant belittling of the man. He's the greatest QB winner of our era. Seattle's just one and done and Wilson isn't good enough to get them back. He's just not the QB Brady is.
"... the Patriots may yet have to explain how they came to use underinflated footballs in their win in the A.F.C. championship game."
Um, proof? Of course he doesn't have any and when the league issues its final investigation, the results will clear the Pats of any supposed skullduggery. Oh and by the way, BOTH teams played with the same football so let's dispense with this silly meme. There's no there, there.
Other point - and here I'm using a Rhodenism -- but it's the players who win or lose the games, not the coaches. Wilson's just not as good as Rhoden has puffed him up to be. He got lucky with that heave that his receiver bobbled and caught. But when it was crunch time, he threw an interception. That's on him, not Carroll.
Oh, and you owe Brady an apology for your constant belittling of the man. He's the greatest QB winner of our era. Seattle's just one and done and Wilson isn't good enough to get them back. He's just not the QB Brady is.
48
Patriots are not done...last team to win 2 consecutive SB's will do it agsin...sorry, bro.
4
they did not play with the same football - each offense plays with its own balls.
Actually both teams do NOT play with the same footballs, each has its own offensive footballs. I thought the same thing as you; why invite controversy by having each team play with its own footballs but, except for the footballs used for kicking, each has its own set of foot balls.
Just makes the next one sweeter for the Hawks, bookends of a legend.
4
Patriots were the last team to win 2 SB's consecutively...they will do it again next year....now we re talking. serious bookends
6
I was awake all night after that game wondering how Carroll or his quarterback could have decided to pass the ball when the chances of barreling into the end zone 18 inches was almost a sure thing; instead Beast was standing there with his hands out and his mouth open in shock. Belichick and Brady were handed the game on a silver platter and were delighted to accept.
5
Because maybe it wasn't a sure thing. I've been told that Lynch's record from the 1 is not good, and that he has been stuffed repeatedly on very short yardage. Also, Belichick not calling a time out suddenly put the Carroll and co. under clock pressure. And of the 104 pass plays run from the 1 all of last season, NONE was intercepted. So throwing a quick slant and either winning the game or stopping the clock seemed like a good bet.
26
Here we go again with the indolent, casual, irresponsible characterizations of the New England franchise. How are Aaron Hernandez and the hidden camera episode pertinent to the discussion of this game? Is it simply convenient and crowd pleasing to keep referring to them? Is there some deeper, higher journalistic purpose being served by the reference that is not readily apparent?
You want to bring the under inflated footballs into it? Start by not calling them deflated until you have evidence that someone actually removed air from the footballs.
The footballs for the Super Bowl were carefully monitored by the league (which the league should have been doing since they took control of the K balls, and they know it). Furthermore, have you seen the measurement specs provided by the league? Only one of the footballs was as much as 2 psi underinflated. The rest were in a range that was just slightly below the league minimum of 12.5 psi, which can easily be explained via indoor/outdoor temperature and humidity differential.
The NFL knows full well that the underinflated football topic is going to become a non-issue and now has to figure out how to make the absurd manufactured firestorm go away without suffering another hit to its own image in the process.
How are Carroll and the Seahawks going to get over this devastating loss? They can start by getting in touch with the Patriots, who have the most horrible, intimate knowledge of such things.
You want to bring the under inflated footballs into it? Start by not calling them deflated until you have evidence that someone actually removed air from the footballs.
The footballs for the Super Bowl were carefully monitored by the league (which the league should have been doing since they took control of the K balls, and they know it). Furthermore, have you seen the measurement specs provided by the league? Only one of the footballs was as much as 2 psi underinflated. The rest were in a range that was just slightly below the league minimum of 12.5 psi, which can easily be explained via indoor/outdoor temperature and humidity differential.
The NFL knows full well that the underinflated football topic is going to become a non-issue and now has to figure out how to make the absurd manufactured firestorm go away without suffering another hit to its own image in the process.
How are Carroll and the Seahawks going to get over this devastating loss? They can start by getting in touch with the Patriots, who have the most horrible, intimate knowledge of such things.
68
I'm a Pats fan in Arizona. I'm away from Boston media and Boston fans. When I first heard about the footballs I said if there's anything to it, it must have to do with fumbles. So I checked the fumble stats online -- nothing to do with the so-called expert analysis. In five minutes, it was clear that something changed in 2007, when the Pats cut their fumbling way down. I had no idea what changed in 2007. I later learned. Take a look at the stats for yourself:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fumbles-per-game?date=2004-02-02
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fumbles-per-game?date=2004-02-02
Note that spygate was wide-open, no hidden cameras.
3
Well said!! Bravo. Love the last paragraph!!
I could not believe as I was watching the game that this was happening to the Pats for the third time in a row.
I could not believe as I was watching the game that this was happening to the Pats for the third time in a row.
Overlooked in this discussion was the poor time management by Coach Carroll and quarterback Wilson. There was some confusion and 2 timeouts in the last 1.05 minutes. It's doesn't make sense to talk about running down the clock so that if the seahawks scored there would been no time left for the patriots; scoring was too important to do that. The pass play with 26 seconds left was the wrong play in a series of poor decisions.
11
It's easy to run the ball, lose a yard, etc. and then the clock squeeze you out. Butler made a great defensive play, sometimes they're good enough to win a game. Running Lynch against a goal line fence was no cinch.
27
That is an excellent point from the old mining town of Bisbee about the time outs. You don't want to give Tom Brady half a minute to get into field goal range - but that's a very secondary consideration to the primary goal of scoring.
Also, the Seahawks were missing starting tight end Zach Miller, but in midseason they added a very large OSU Beaver defensive lineman as a blocking back. I don't believe they had the correct heavy package in the game to ensure Lynch driving into the end zone.
There seemed to be confusion about the time, the timeouts, the personnel and the play call. It was a coaching debacle.
That's why tempo-fast teams like Chip Kelly's have an advantage besides confusing a defense. They can get off the ground, set up at the line of scrimmage, and run a play as seconds expire. And with so much parity in college and pro football that is an advantage, a nice thing to have in your bag of tricks. Hence, Belichick practices fast.
I agree with Bill Rhoden for once. This could haunt Seattle for a long time. They also had roster confusion when they lost Golden Tate, and jettisoned the troublesome Harvin - who starred in the previous Super Bowl. Not even Microsoft Excel could inform owner Paul Allen that he was short of guys to surround Wilson.
Meanwhile, the scheming Belichick had obtained players from Kent State and West Alabama. I don't like him, but I tip my cap in deference.
Also, the Seahawks were missing starting tight end Zach Miller, but in midseason they added a very large OSU Beaver defensive lineman as a blocking back. I don't believe they had the correct heavy package in the game to ensure Lynch driving into the end zone.
There seemed to be confusion about the time, the timeouts, the personnel and the play call. It was a coaching debacle.
That's why tempo-fast teams like Chip Kelly's have an advantage besides confusing a defense. They can get off the ground, set up at the line of scrimmage, and run a play as seconds expire. And with so much parity in college and pro football that is an advantage, a nice thing to have in your bag of tricks. Hence, Belichick practices fast.
I agree with Bill Rhoden for once. This could haunt Seattle for a long time. They also had roster confusion when they lost Golden Tate, and jettisoned the troublesome Harvin - who starred in the previous Super Bowl. Not even Microsoft Excel could inform owner Paul Allen that he was short of guys to surround Wilson.
Meanwhile, the scheming Belichick had obtained players from Kent State and West Alabama. I don't like him, but I tip my cap in deference.
Give Belichek and the Patriots credit, There was a great piece by Bill Simmons at Grantland yesterday about how Belichek put the time pressure on Carroll by refusing to call a timeout after the 1st down which most opposing coaches would have done. So Carroll burnt the clock down to 26 seconds as he stood there and waited for Belichek to use a timeout so he wouldn't have to. The end result was that with only 26 seconds and one timeout left, Seattle had to run a pass if they wanted 3 tries at scoring. They would only have had time for two running plays with just 26 seconds. Which is why Belichek put in three cornerbacks and ran a defensive play that the Patriots had practiced all week because Seattle only runs a few passing plays on the goal line. Give Belichek credit for bluffing at the right time to steal the pot when he knew he had a losing hand.
3
Pretty funny that the writer attempts to generalize an entire team's attitude toward their head coach using only one actual quotation for support. One that expresses surprise. Not exactly the stuff of drama there. Flummery.
I have a feeling that the team (and the fans) think more about what he's done for the Hawks over the last few years, and less about one risky play call.
Also, with respect to the deflated footballs -- yes, I do agree with the writer of this piece that the issue will "go away" for the Patriots. Of course it will. Everyone knew it would if the Pats won. However, the armchair commentators who think that weather (i.e. any chance external conditions) could explain what happened in that championship game needs to worry less about the ideal gas law and more about elementary statistics. It is vanishingly unlikely that the two teams' footballs were drawn from the same "population." Much less than a 1% chance. Try a chi-square test. The whole weather argument is absurd on probabilistic grounds.
I have a feeling that the team (and the fans) think more about what he's done for the Hawks over the last few years, and less about one risky play call.
Also, with respect to the deflated footballs -- yes, I do agree with the writer of this piece that the issue will "go away" for the Patriots. Of course it will. Everyone knew it would if the Pats won. However, the armchair commentators who think that weather (i.e. any chance external conditions) could explain what happened in that championship game needs to worry less about the ideal gas law and more about elementary statistics. It is vanishingly unlikely that the two teams' footballs were drawn from the same "population." Much less than a 1% chance. Try a chi-square test. The whole weather argument is absurd on probabilistic grounds.
5
Each team prepares their own footballs for the referees. The Colts have already said that Luck prefers his balls inflated to the maximum 13.5 PSI level, and the Patriots have said that they inflate their balls to the minimum 12.5 PSI level. Moreover, from the careful language used (and not used), and the the NFL's admission that they do not have starting PSI figures from the pre-game check, most have concluded that it is very likely that the referee merely squeezed the footballs with his hands.
So the "statistically improbable" argument as a refutation of what has been empirically tested -- that ball pressure goes down when the temperature drops and there is precipitation -- does not hold water (or air, for that matter). Nobody is saying that the Colts and Patriots balls were started in an identical state -- in fact, it is clear from the teams' practices that the balls did NOT start at the same pressure levels by design (and in all legality).
This is why it is such an omission that the NFL (1) does not know the actual starting PSIs of all 24 balls (the 12 submittted by the Patriots and 12 by the Colts); and (2) that the league allowed the public and press to believe the false report that the Patriots balls were deflated by an average of 2 PSI. If the Patriots balls deflated due to weather conditions by 1 PSI, they end up below 12.5; if the Colts balls start at 13.5 and deflate by 1 PSI they are deflated yet legal.
So the "statistically improbable" argument as a refutation of what has been empirically tested -- that ball pressure goes down when the temperature drops and there is precipitation -- does not hold water (or air, for that matter). Nobody is saying that the Colts and Patriots balls were started in an identical state -- in fact, it is clear from the teams' practices that the balls did NOT start at the same pressure levels by design (and in all legality).
This is why it is such an omission that the NFL (1) does not know the actual starting PSIs of all 24 balls (the 12 submittted by the Patriots and 12 by the Colts); and (2) that the league allowed the public and press to believe the false report that the Patriots balls were deflated by an average of 2 PSI. If the Patriots balls deflated due to weather conditions by 1 PSI, they end up below 12.5; if the Colts balls start at 13.5 and deflate by 1 PSI they are deflated yet legal.
35
Your argument is based on the assumption both teams inflated their footballs to 12.5 psi. What if the Patriots inflated to 12.5 and the Colts to 13.5? gee, all the Colts balls were below 13.5 when checked. Btw, only 1 Patriots ball was found to be 2 psi below 12.5- the ball the Colts had after their interception. The others were "slightly below".
25
Thank you Sue! A very few of us have been saying this, and writing comments of this kind for a couple of weeks now. But the Patriots haters have been totally oblivious, or more likely, have no understanding of physics whatsoever and so find it mentally easier, i.e., lazy, to just assume someone actively deflated the balls. This really does reflect the state of mental acuity of the commentators in this country. Pathetic really.
1
Why make such a big deal about the outcome of a football game between evenly matched foes? The outcome is entirely dependent on random events. The ball is not even round!
Reading about the game, it seems Seattle's mistake was to score a touchdown to tie the game at 14 in the first half. If only they had kicked a 3 pointer and left the score at 14-10, then at the end of the game they would have tied the score with a 1 yard plunge, and gone on to win in overtime. Ha, ha, ha!
I don't watch football games, but I follow it as a study in irrationality.
Reading about the game, it seems Seattle's mistake was to score a touchdown to tie the game at 14 in the first half. If only they had kicked a 3 pointer and left the score at 14-10, then at the end of the game they would have tied the score with a 1 yard plunge, and gone on to win in overtime. Ha, ha, ha!
I don't watch football games, but I follow it as a study in irrationality.
3
Your assertion doesn't add up. If with seconds to go the Pats led 28-20 then the Hawks would not tie with a "one-yard plunge." The would need a two point play to tie, not the certain single point after touchdown a kicker assures. But of course as you note you don't watch football games.
5
What about letting loose and having fun, diarubo? All it takes is some irrationality!
2
That is what diarubo is doing, having fun! Lighten up, it is only a game. Nobody on either team will be impoverished by the result.
2
This is just absurd. They are both great teams. Someone had to win and the Pats won on one incredible play. I'm a Pat fan and ecstatic, but Seattle is a fantastic team - quite possibly the better team. Why would they change anything?
37
Thank you, David - and congrats on emerging victorious from a fantastic contest. How wonderful to read graciousness from a Pats fan full of joy AND sportsmanship! From a diehard "12".
2
Better team? How so? Raw talent and brute force yes. But on discipline, serious preparation, and the best game plans in history, the Pats have consistently shown a ruthless attention to detail that wins games.
Defense is just as important as offense in winning
Butler was coached on the very play that won the Superbowl several times that week. Luck? Fluke?
I don't think so. It's called knowing where to be at the right time. And I'm even more delighted he was a no-name player that nobody was "afraid of like Revis.
Defense is just as important as offense in winning
Butler was coached on the very play that won the Superbowl several times that week. Luck? Fluke?
I don't think so. It's called knowing where to be at the right time. And I'm even more delighted he was a no-name player that nobody was "afraid of like Revis.
5
What do you mean "quite possibly the better team"? The Patriots beat them; they're the better team!
3
Until Pete 'What Was He Thinking' Carroll decided to get cute and call a slat from the 1 yd. line, Brady was the mvp, for sure. However, as a NY sports-fan who harbors an admittedly irrational dislike of everything Belichick, I was mostly disappointed I didn't hit the trifecta: that is, New England done in by 3 miraculous 4th quarter Super Bowl catches: David Tyree, Mario Manningham and Jerome Kearse.
2
Hi David. Correction: there *were* three miraculous catches, you must have missed the one by Butler.
All kidding aside, maybe you'll hit your trifecta next year. OR...maybe Belichik will even things out with a fourth miraculous catch by Gronk.
All kidding aside, maybe you'll hit your trifecta next year. OR...maybe Belichik will even things out with a fourth miraculous catch by Gronk.
13
Dave, I predict NY's little run of 2 lucky catches to win SB's is over for a long time...wanna bet?
11
Earlier, the NY Times ran an article using game theory to make the excellent case that you have to randomize calls somewhat for best outcome.
The OBVIOUS call was a handoff to Beast Mode, of course, but if Seattle always made the obvious call, they would never have got where they did. If the Patriots had all been keying on the handoff (they initially were, until the play developed) they might well have stuffed him, as at times they had throughout the day. The next down was an even more obvious Lynch run, so save him for then.
Sunday was the only day I wished I'd still been living in Boston, where I became a long-suffering Pats fan back in '85 (the final score of Superbowl XX - Bears 46, Patriots 10 - is tattooed inside my eyeballs) instead of moving heart, mind, and body to Seattle and developing the same dim view of the Pats that the rest of the world seems to have.
The OBVIOUS call was a handoff to Beast Mode, of course, but if Seattle always made the obvious call, they would never have got where they did. If the Patriots had all been keying on the handoff (they initially were, until the play developed) they might well have stuffed him, as at times they had throughout the day. The next down was an even more obvious Lynch run, so save him for then.
Sunday was the only day I wished I'd still been living in Boston, where I became a long-suffering Pats fan back in '85 (the final score of Superbowl XX - Bears 46, Patriots 10 - is tattooed inside my eyeballs) instead of moving heart, mind, and body to Seattle and developing the same dim view of the Pats that the rest of the world seems to have.
8
Time to brighten up your dim view of the Patriots . They not only won the SuperBowl, but in the process showed up Seattle on the field in terms of professionalism vs Seattle's immature and often lewd behavior. Now , Deflategatec is proving to be a combined effort by the Ravens and Colts to embarrass Brady and the Patriots. The Patriots are lookin' good, and it ain't even over.
23
"Would anyone have doubted a pass called for Brady in the same situation?"
Really, doesn't that tell the whole story?
Point is, Wilson is no Brady. That's a pass Brady almost certainly would never have thrown, and, if, by some devil's miracle he had, he would have owned up immediately to full responsibility.
Character is what you find without fail in a true leader.
Really, doesn't that tell the whole story?
Point is, Wilson is no Brady. That's a pass Brady almost certainly would never have thrown, and, if, by some devil's miracle he had, he would have owned up immediately to full responsibility.
Character is what you find without fail in a true leader.
11
Wait, what? Wilson took full responsibility, right after the game. In fact, Wilson, Carroll and Bevell all claimed direct responsibility--and then Carroll put that to rest by saying 'I'm the only one to blame, it was my call' (even though Wilson is still saying it was his fault)...
You can say what you want about Wilson--but if you look up the truth, you'll find it.
You can say what you want about Wilson--but if you look up the truth, you'll find it.
14
True. Wilson has been relatively quiet about this.
2
No doubt Wilson has uttered some perfunctory mea culpas since the game ended. But he has hardly taken it upon himself to insist that the fault must be laid at his door, not that of his coaches. I can't imagine Brady taking such a passive role in this discussion. Mostly what I've heard from Wilson is excuses -- how he was sure it was going to be touchdown, etc., rather than any kind of acknowledgement that under the circumstances he committed a stupendous quarterback blunder.
Over the past season, there were, I gather, 104 pass plays from the 1, and not a single one was intercepted. If a pass play is run under statistics like that, how can any rational person blame the coach and not the quarterback? Whose decision making was way off the charts bad if that pass is intercepted? And this is especially so under the circumstances, in which Wilson had zero pressure on him, and in which he had two further downs to burn.
If there was a sense in which Carroll was deeply at fault here, it's precisely in that he didn't recognize just how unreliable Wilson was when it came to such decisions. He acted as though Wilson was another Brady, when emphatically he was not.
Consider: if Brady had thrown such an interception, is there anybody in the entire world who would fault anybody but Brady himself?
Doesn't that sum it all up?
Over the past season, there were, I gather, 104 pass plays from the 1, and not a single one was intercepted. If a pass play is run under statistics like that, how can any rational person blame the coach and not the quarterback? Whose decision making was way off the charts bad if that pass is intercepted? And this is especially so under the circumstances, in which Wilson had zero pressure on him, and in which he had two further downs to burn.
If there was a sense in which Carroll was deeply at fault here, it's precisely in that he didn't recognize just how unreliable Wilson was when it came to such decisions. He acted as though Wilson was another Brady, when emphatically he was not.
Consider: if Brady had thrown such an interception, is there anybody in the entire world who would fault anybody but Brady himself?
Doesn't that sum it all up?
Boomer Esiason has now stated on air that head coach Jim Harbaugh of the Ravens and former defensive coordinator with the Ravens and currrent h.c. of the Colts Chuck Pagano along with Colts GM Ryan Grogson colluded in Deflategate scheme to make Brady and Patriots look bad. Major impetus was 4 man offensive line formation im AFC Championship game that made Harbaugh look like a fool. Now Patriots will come out smelling like roses, the Colts and Ravens will look petty and small, while the NFL, unless they penalize the Ravens and Colts heavily, will look fools.
40
And they just gave the devious and petty Harbaugh a spot at the ESPN table. I almost choked seeing him up there in the pregame punditry. The man deserves to be driven out of the NFL for libel.
7
People the world over immediately denounced the play call as sheer idiocy. That's all one needs to know.
1
People the world over called the Patriots cheaters over Deflategate, which is turning out to be a plot by the Ravens and Colts to make the Patriots look bad. So what is your point?
10
Before you continue to pronounce this issue dead from Indonesia, The NFL investigation must be completed. Ted Wells will be the final arbiter as to exactly what the Patriots did or didn't do. The Ravens and Colts did what every loser does, examining why they lost. If it turns out the Patriots did in fact do something outside the rules, who will look foolish?
1
The Ravens and Colts both lost because they deserved to. If they want to examine why they lost, they should look in the mirror. There has been no accusation of the Patriots doing anything wrong in the Ravens game, so let's put that one to rest. As far as the Colts go, I will take back our 17 points in the first half and give it to the Colts, if they feel they were cheated. Final Score: Pats 28 - Colts 24. Ted Wells has as much of an idea as to what happened as you or I do.
3
Carroll has a Super Bowl championship and the high regard of his team and the fans. Boston didn't give up on Belichick when he lost two in a row. Why should the Seahawks fold? Seattle has more grit than you are crediting them with. Relax, Bill, the Seahawks can come back.
22
hey, up by 10 in the third quarter, the Seahawks should have put the game away. They didn't, and they paid for it. They let the Patriots score 14 unanswered points. If the players want a scapegoat, Carroll's their guy. Blame the coach! But this team lost because it deserved to lose. The defense went soft and the offense failed to execute. They got lucky on a long pass and then they got unlucky on a short pass. Nobody snatched any rings from the players' fingers. The rings belong to the champions.
60
The Seattle defense had three useless arms, a brain injury and a blown knee.
Sometimes it's a little too much. Schneider will raid the CFL for another Richardson, for a DB.
Sometimes it's a little too much. Schneider will raid the CFL for another Richardson, for a DB.
2
No crying in football.....Patriots had injuries on their offensive line.
3
Tom Brady and the Pats are all class. You on the other hand are a sore loser...What does Aaron Hernandez have to do with this team? Nothing. What evidence has been released that the Pats did anything wrong regarding football pressure? Again, nothing. Why aren't you calling out the Seahawks for their unsportsmanlike fighting after losing? If you can't appreciate a team that works hard and plays with class, just go watch your Jets.
61
Agree. This was all apparent on the field where the Patriots were all about professionalism, and the Seahawks behaved immaturely at best, and lewdly at worst. Plus Malcolm Butler said he was able to make the interception because the meticulous attention to detail and preparation his coaches insist on allowed him to be ready for the play. Of course, his own ability, intelligence, and grit was a big part. He was an undrafted free agent from a division Ii school who impressed Belichick so much that he made a roster spot for him.
25
And the little dust up at the finish of the game? Not classy, Seattle.
40
Rhoden cites "loose ends" facing the Pats as the Hernandez trial and use of deflated balls against the Colts.
What one has to do with the other is beyond me. The Patriots quickly cut Hernandez the second he was arrested. Yes, they knew of unsavory stuff from his past, but name me any team in the NFL that doesn't overlook past player history in their eagerness to get a top player. To imply that the Patriots are a tainted unsavory team because of Hernandez is outrageous.
As for the deflated balls, anyone who reads multiple sports sources, as opposed to just shouting "cheater" knows by now that 1) the original information about the number of "deflated" balls was inaccurate; the NFL doesn't measure balls at halftime (thus no comparative data set); and 3) the Patriots have categorically denied ball tampering. So at this point, given Belichik's "ball pressure experiment", It's not up to the Pats to fess up to something they didn't do but up to the NFL to find evidence.
Not only is the NFL a petty, macho, and often corrupt organization, the coaching club is rife with jealousy and backstabbing. According to sportswriter Tom Curran, evidence exists linking John Harbaugh's anger over Brady's comment to "read the rulebook" did just that--and concocted a ruse with his former assistant Pagano to pick the one rule with the potential to embarrass Brady to cast a pall over the team.
It's sad when attacks from players on the field are less important than attacks from rival coaches.
What one has to do with the other is beyond me. The Patriots quickly cut Hernandez the second he was arrested. Yes, they knew of unsavory stuff from his past, but name me any team in the NFL that doesn't overlook past player history in their eagerness to get a top player. To imply that the Patriots are a tainted unsavory team because of Hernandez is outrageous.
As for the deflated balls, anyone who reads multiple sports sources, as opposed to just shouting "cheater" knows by now that 1) the original information about the number of "deflated" balls was inaccurate; the NFL doesn't measure balls at halftime (thus no comparative data set); and 3) the Patriots have categorically denied ball tampering. So at this point, given Belichik's "ball pressure experiment", It's not up to the Pats to fess up to something they didn't do but up to the NFL to find evidence.
Not only is the NFL a petty, macho, and often corrupt organization, the coaching club is rife with jealousy and backstabbing. According to sportswriter Tom Curran, evidence exists linking John Harbaugh's anger over Brady's comment to "read the rulebook" did just that--and concocted a ruse with his former assistant Pagano to pick the one rule with the potential to embarrass Brady to cast a pall over the team.
It's sad when attacks from players on the field are less important than attacks from rival coaches.
51
Yes. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the cameras associated with "Spygate" were hidden. They were in plain view, as I think were the cameras of the Jets. All teams videotape. The Patriots were found to be in violation of where their camera tent was located on the field...not to having cameras. As to "deflated footballs".....come on. This story is so deflated as to be a very sad commentary on journalism. Have some pride.
22
I got points #1 & #3. I missed #2.
Reread the post...maybe kryptonite involved?
2
A Patriots celebration can't touch a Sox celebration. The Patriots are about adulation, The Sox are about love. Belichick is a genius. Brady is brilliant and a hunk. But Big Papi makes our dreams come true. Gillette is Gillette. Fenway is a temple. Sox fans include those who went to school in Boston 40 years ago. Cheeseheads who've lived in Boston for 40 years are still cheeseheads. The Pats are the only team anywhere named after 6 states -- what's up with that? Football may be the American sport. Bostonians are different. Our support of the Pats, the Bruins, and the Celtics is off the charts. And there really is only one marathon out there. Bostonians are unsurpassed sports fans. But the Sox stand alone. That's true from Hahavahd Yad to Southie, from Somaville to Quinzy, from Glosta to, Foxboro (or is it Foxborough?) and from Bangoh to Hahtfahd and places beyond.
10
Red Sox baseball at Femway Park is pure poetry.
3
Correction ... Bruins fans stand alone. Boston is a great city, but like Chicago and Detroit, it's a hockey town first and foremost.
3
One play does not make a game. How about that Seahawks defense which gave up 28 points and then blew their cool at the end of the game with an offsides on the 1 yard line and then start a game ending brawl. Armchair quarterbacks can all say they would have called a different play (myself included) but none of us has the chops to call plays over an entire season to get a team to the Superbowl and come within 4 points of winning. We'll see who the Seahawks whiners are and which Seahawks can learn from what the Patriots did right and suck it up to return the team to the Superbowl and compete to be successful.
26
Everyone criticizing the Seahawks goal line call is ignoring the context. It was second down with 26 seconds left and one time out remaining for Seattle. Calling a quick slant pass is not unreasonable when you consider that the odds greatly favor the outcome being either a touchdown and game over or an incomplete pass, which stops the clock and ensures enough time for two more attempts with the use of the timeout. The unlikeliest outcome, which reinforces what an outstanding play it was, was for the defensive back to manage to jump in front of the one yard pass route and intercept the ball. The Seahawks didn't so much make a mistake as Malcolm Butler mad a play.
56
The context was the Seahawks were losing by 4 points with 26 seconds, ball on the 1/2 yard line one time out with the best running full back and best running quarterback in the league on the field. Their coach, with a history of heartbreaking existential meltdowns at the most critical time of his life had another one and decided to pass into the heart of a stacked Patriots defense to seal the Patriot's victory.
7
Thank you.
4
Look at the replay. The ball was slightly more than 1 yard out. Lynch has been unsuccessful 7 out of 12 times in this type of situation.
6
Tell the truth: the Seahawks’ defense was riddled by injuries. They lost 2 starting D linemen in the last few weeks of the regular season; then lost their top nickel back Lane and most versatile DE Avril in the early going of the SB. Thomas and Sherman, arguably the 2 best D backs in football, played hurt, badly hurt – both will require offseason surgery, and likely neither would have even suited up for a game other than the SB. Chancellor, the best SS in football, was playing injured too. Three of Brady’s four TD passes piecked on defenders who wouldn’t have even been on the field except for injury substitutions. Still, the Seahawks were in the game, with a chance to win in the last minute. That shows exceptional grit and great promise. Don’t write them off.
26
Cry me a river. Pats lost their lead defensive player middle linebacker Jerod Mayo during the year and had significantly injured players on the offensive line during the SB. The game is about dealing with injuries - ie substitute players stepping up. A champioship team is not only about the starters.
21
Do you think that Butler was a starter? Mayo, their defensive quarterback, missed most of their season, Revis will have surgery, etc. Football is a tough game and a team game. I follow the Patriots somewhat and didn't have any idea who Butler was, and yet he was instrumental in the win, he defensed Kearse once down the (Seattle) left sideline (and two other plays) and tipped the ball that, unbelievably, was caught by Kearse setting up the final two plays.
All of the flack that Carroll has been getting for that play comes from people forgetting the whole rest of the game. In the first series in the second half, Seattle had the ball, second and three on the Patriot's 10 yard, got 2 yards on a run by Turbin and no yards on third and one on the eight by Lynch. Instead of running Lynch on fourth down, they kick a field goal. If he is so automatic, why not run him there? Oh, right, the Patriots had just stuffed him already.
The other thing that people don't remember is that the Seahawks didn't score one point in the last third of the game. One more score and we are talking a different ballgame.
The drama of what happens in the last minute of a close games always overshadows the whole game, when every play from the opening kickoff on to the last kneel down is important as is every personnel decision for years prior to the game, how few first-round draft choices were playing and Butler being an undrafted free agent are evidence of this.
Pats win, Hawks lose. Great game.
All of the flack that Carroll has been getting for that play comes from people forgetting the whole rest of the game. In the first series in the second half, Seattle had the ball, second and three on the Patriot's 10 yard, got 2 yards on a run by Turbin and no yards on third and one on the eight by Lynch. Instead of running Lynch on fourth down, they kick a field goal. If he is so automatic, why not run him there? Oh, right, the Patriots had just stuffed him already.
The other thing that people don't remember is that the Seahawks didn't score one point in the last third of the game. One more score and we are talking a different ballgame.
The drama of what happens in the last minute of a close games always overshadows the whole game, when every play from the opening kickoff on to the last kneel down is important as is every personnel decision for years prior to the game, how few first-round draft choices were playing and Butler being an undrafted free agent are evidence of this.
Pats win, Hawks lose. Great game.
4
First of all, deflationgate is almost 100% a media created issue. If the football was underinflated by halftime, it was due to the weather: proven.
As for Carroll calling a pass play. That's his style. It worked at the end of the first half and kept Seattle in the game. It didn't work at the end of the game. Brady got intercepted at the beginning of the first quarter at the goal line, of not the Patriots would have put the game away early. Now all we remember is that Wilson got intercepted at the end of the game. Judge the game by how all 60 minutes were played. Judge the coaches by who they are not by who you think they should be. Great game. Someone had to lose.
As for Carroll calling a pass play. That's his style. It worked at the end of the first half and kept Seattle in the game. It didn't work at the end of the game. Brady got intercepted at the beginning of the first quarter at the goal line, of not the Patriots would have put the game away early. Now all we remember is that Wilson got intercepted at the end of the game. Judge the game by how all 60 minutes were played. Judge the coaches by who they are not by who you think they should be. Great game. Someone had to lose.
88
Regarding deflationgate: and I bet you still deny climate change too.
1
In fact, science is on the side of the Patriots as reported by this newspaper and ESPN Sports Science. It's remarkable how these discussions bring out superstitious haters.
21
I am a Patriots fan whose glad they won but spent much of the game fearing they would lose. The Seahawks are a great team who will probably be back in the super bowl next year. My friendly advise to Seattle fans is to not take anything said about the future of the club in this article seriously.
23
comedy. The Seahawks defense played with 40% of their starters in need of medical surgery, and yet Brady is lucky to have won. The Seahawks QB is barely in the league 3 years and has gone to the SB twice.
How will the Seahawks bounce back? By going back to the SB next year too.
How will the Seahawks bounce back? By going back to the SB next year too.
9
With the Packers!
2
Comedy? The Seahawks were lucky to have even been in the game. As Green Bay handed them a win 2 weeks earlier. Just be happy your team even made it to the SB.
3
What if Lynch fumbled? The Patriots held? The sun didn't come up? Judging this one based on the last play ignores a string of highly improbable events that got Seattle to that point...and I'm a Seahawk fan. Good gamblers ride the hot hand. A good gambler would have thrown the ball to Kearse. A smart gambler would have given the ball to Lynch. An intelligent gambler would have given Wilson the run option. And a riverboat gambler threw the slant.
18
So can we send "Riverboat" Darrell along with Dan to ATL then? It's time to get DangeRuss a real OC.
"Why does the sun go on shining?
Why do the stars shine above?
Don t they know?
It 's the end of the world.
It ended when the 'hawks
Lost the ball."
Why do the stars shine above?
Don t they know?
It 's the end of the world.
It ended when the 'hawks
Lost the ball."
Very frustrating when even a veteran reporter like Bill Rhoden prejudges the so-called Deflategate based on patchy uncomfirmed second-hand anonymous reports. It's a classic mass media echo chamber zombie story and one would hope a Times reporter would want to know the facts first. As for provocative behavior, the Seattle team has rewritten the book on lousy sportsmanship.
45
@Eyeballs: very, very well stated. For some reason, sports writers seem to love to keep the waters muddied long after the hard data rolls in.
17
Rhoden's emotions regarding the Patriots frequently get in the way of a well-reasoned article. This has been evident for years.
18
Play calling is nothing more than rock, paper, scissors. Pete Carroll guessed wrong. End of story.
4
Three things can happen when the ball is put in the air. Two of them are bad! Play calling is much more complicated than a child's game of deception. Carroll didn't "guess" wrong. He lost his mind.
Three things can also happen when the ball is run, (success, run gets stuffed, fumble). and once again, two of them are bad.
Cute old timey aphorisms do not make great football strategy.
Cute old timey aphorisms do not make great football strategy.
4
It was a fantastic game! Maybe the most exciting football game I've ever seen. Of course I wanted Seattle to win, but it was fantastic entertainment. My hat is off to both teams. But honestly, with the exception of that early interception, Brady was on fire. Congrats, Patriots.
71
I was rooting for Seattle too, and thought it was a great game. I'd give as much credit to the Patriots' game plan as Brady himself. The play-calling did a consistently efficient job of attacking Seattle's injury-depleted secondary, and Seattle just was not able to adjust. Brady's real accomplishment was being able to release the ball so quickly as to neutralize Seattle's pass rush, but the pass routes opened up his receivers fast enough to make the quick release possible.
My call for Seattle's red zone strategy at the end? (my own form of fantasy football, right?) With such an emotional high from the miracle reception, I would have run the Marshawn Lynch play twice in a succession, *no-huddle*, with an audible option to call off the no-huddle if Wilson judged the edge had been lost.
Great game, though, and great comebacks by both teams. There was a sort of balance with the first and last scoring threats ended by goal line interceptions.
My call for Seattle's red zone strategy at the end? (my own form of fantasy football, right?) With such an emotional high from the miracle reception, I would have run the Marshawn Lynch play twice in a succession, *no-huddle*, with an audible option to call off the no-huddle if Wilson judged the edge had been lost.
Great game, though, and great comebacks by both teams. There was a sort of balance with the first and last scoring threats ended by goal line interceptions.
11
Love the Patriots!
22
Tom Brady's good looks have snything to do with it? Haha
1
trying giving some credit to an incredible 4th quarter comeback. and to a superb play by Butler. And please read exactly what Spygate was about. Every team copies the signals, they used an open video camera. The other charges about filming practices were found to be completely false but of course everybody forgets that.
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Most people do not even understand what "Spygate" was. Filming another team's signals was not against the rules. The NFL wanted teams to film them up in the stands (not in the open), like they agreed to. Every team did it this way. What the Patriots were fined for was filming them from the field-level, out in the open, which Bilichick asserted that was within the letter of the regulations.
Jimmy Jones laughed when he heard about "spy gate" saying that his team even mistakenly sent game films to other teams which still had the signals they had filmed on the game tape!
Every team taped signals, just in hiding in the stands. Bilichick did it overtly. THAT was the big crime. Period.
I wish the sanctimonious fans would get over themselves. THEIR teams taped signals too!!
Jimmy Jones laughed when he heard about "spy gate" saying that his team even mistakenly sent game films to other teams which still had the signals they had filmed on the game tape!
Every team taped signals, just in hiding in the stands. Bilichick did it overtly. THAT was the big crime. Period.
I wish the sanctimonious fans would get over themselves. THEIR teams taped signals too!!
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But why the stiff penalty form the NFL?
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Shtarka - In order to mollify the media. The NFL is ALL about appearances, perceptions, public relations, and massaging the media to create an overall favorable impression so that the billions of dollars keep rolling in. Roger Goodell will last only as long as he is able to do those things.
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Perhaps...we ll soon see how Goodell handles deflategate now that it appears the Ravens and Colts conspired together to set up Brady and the Patriots ...should be very interesting.
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The utter silence of Richard Sherman and Marshawn Lynch on social media since the game is what's worrying me.
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Sherman's having a baby. Good for him. And he's a smart guy who probably knows when to say nothing however good he may be at saying what's on his mind.
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Silence? Check our Marshawn's twitter feed.
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Sherman is a smart but very immature guy.....Brady showed him something when Sherman came over to shake his hand after the game ended. Brady told Sherman he is a great player. Brady uad every right to tell Sherman other things as well, but he didnt.
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Yes, it was hardly "subzero" today. In fact, with temps in the 30s it was one of the warmer days we've had in the past month. I also laugh when local stations claim there were over 1 million people on the parade route. It was more like 50,000, if that much. And while the parade route was nicely plowed, many, many neighborhoods in Boston were still totally snowed in, not surprisingly those of the poorer areas of the city. Children had great difficulty getting to and from school while the city's newish mayor made it a point to get the parade route plowed. Maybe that's why our country continues to fall further and further behind the rest of the industrialized world in education. Our priorities are all askew.
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Opines a person who lives in leafy Andover. I saw plenty of locals from Roxbury heading to the parade on the Orange Line. They weren't complaining.
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Haha....well said Chris....Mr. Andover obviously does not get much pleasure out of life.
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One thing Carroll must institute is some type of decorum & discipline. Between the trash talking, crotch grabbing & going to the potty they will still be the
Seathugs while the Patriots have become the most dominant NFL team in the 21st Century - hands down!
Seathugs while the Patriots have become the most dominant NFL team in the 21st Century - hands down!
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Seathugs??? I think you forget that the Patriots are the team with a player on trial for murder.
Enjoy it while lasts because as soon as Brady is gone, the Patriots will return to the pathetic Patriots like they always have been. Tom Brady is an amazing QB.
Enjoy it while lasts because as soon as Brady is gone, the Patriots will return to the pathetic Patriots like they always have been. Tom Brady is an amazing QB.
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@Matt: Hernandez was cut the second his name came up associate with foul play. It was in July, and it left the team scrambling to find a replacement for such a dominant player, something they clearly didn't do.
So "The Patriots are the team with a player on trial for murder" is not only wrong--it's team character assassination by virtue of inaccurate facts.
So "The Patriots are the team with a player on trial for murder" is not only wrong--it's team character assassination by virtue of inaccurate facts.
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Matt, the issue is discipline and Seattle, the most penalized team in the NFL could use a bit of it. Consider the play immediately AFTER the interception. the Pats had the ball 1-2 feet from their endzone - the land whee fumbles, safeties, and all manner of bad things can happen. Instead, a defensive lineman gets flagged for encroachment - whoops ball is now on the five yard line. The next thing that happens is that Seattle starts a brawl and after a 15 yard penalty, Pats run out the clock at the 20. These last two plays encapsulate both teams - NE kept its focus and won the game; Seattle had no focus and lost.
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"Hidden cameras? Deflated footballs?" Like most of the media, it seems the decision has already been reached. No matter what the NFL"s final report states.
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Hey Bill,
The JETS will take deflated balls, hidden cameras, Spy drones, anything to get a winning season.
But even with that, I doubt they will get it, not with Geno as QB.
Ever wonder what will it take to snatch Brady out of Boston?
The JETS will take deflated balls, hidden cameras, Spy drones, anything to get a winning season.
But even with that, I doubt they will get it, not with Geno as QB.
Ever wonder what will it take to snatch Brady out of Boston?
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The pros who run the Seahawks are not going to turf a coach who took them to two successive Superbowls, won one and got with a couple yards of winning another one just because of one play call that could easily have won the game. They know the game, they have proven success in building a powerful, resilient winning team.
I mean, this isn't the Jets we're talking about.
I mean, this isn't the Jets we're talking about.
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Hopefully the Seahawks are strong again next season. The PNW needs plenty of bread and circuses to distract itself from highly regressive taxation and no viable mass transit.
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The best way to win the locker room back is to fire Carroll. It's hard to believe that he wasn't fired on Monday.
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They probably wouldn't be at the Super Bowl if not for getting Carroll as their head coach.
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Read a lot of dumb and ignorant things about Seattle s coach. Ousting him is probably the dumbest. I like how we the fan also become Coach, GM and Owner come Super Bowl time.
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I actually agree and feel that firing head coach Carroll and offensive coordinator Bevell is the appropriate thing to do. The integrity of competition in the NFL, particularly the playoffs and Superbowl must be upheld.
The real problem for the Seahawks was a superb defensive read and execution by CB Malcolm Butler. Give credit where credit is due. Statistics were vastly in favor of either a TD or an incompletion, plus Wilson's and the Seahawks' knowledge that there was a novice (Butler) in the defensive backfield who could easily be exploited. The pass had the right trajectory, unfortunately for the Seahawks their receiver was a millisecond behind Butler's extended hands.
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I agree completely about the read. The Patriots knew the pick was coming because of the Hawks' formation, and Browner took out the pick receiver so Butler had a clear shot at the ball. Wilson never should have thrown the ball. The real problem for the Seahawks is that they telegraphed the play (wasn't lynch off the field?), and the well-coached Pats's defense was waiting for them.
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and not nearly as aggressive towards the ball. Butler wanted it more.
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Unfortunately the Seahawks had no play action or other decoys to freeze the DBs and telegraphed the play as a quick slant/rub play. After that the Patriots DB merely did the job he was expected to do: - break the pass up and/or jump the route.
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It's possible to overdo the hand-wringing. Let's be clear: The Seahawks were in the Super Bowl for the second time because Pete Carroll was their Head Coach. Without him there would have been no controversial play call because some other team, probably the Packers, would have been the NFC champs and playing for the SB.
I don't happen to think that the call was as controversial or out-to-lunch as most seem to think. It had a rationale; maybe not the best but a perfectly defensible one. In any case, if there is anything to forgive let's do it and move on. And remember that we're lucky to have Pete Carroll and his great coaching staff. We'll be back.
I don't happen to think that the call was as controversial or out-to-lunch as most seem to think. It had a rationale; maybe not the best but a perfectly defensible one. In any case, if there is anything to forgive let's do it and move on. And remember that we're lucky to have Pete Carroll and his great coaching staff. We'll be back.
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Temperatures were not sub-zero; by the time the event was underway temperatures had warmed up to the low 30s. Far less fans at this event than any previous.
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Some of their players behavior during this parade was uncalled for, rude and classless. Not an example of good sportsmanship. They had a great season, great game-ending play. Celebrate all those things. But taunting, and shaming the team they just beat who are conference champions is unnecessary. I would make these comments in support of any team they beat.
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I haven't seen reports yet of poor behavior, but you may well be right. However, while you would comment "in support of any team [the Patriots] beat," do you similarly condemn the in-game taunting by the Seahawks? The two examples that come to mind are (1) Doug Baldwin celebrating a football by pretending to "poop" it, which he helpfully clarified was meant as a taunt to one particular Patriots' player; and (2) Richard Sherman's taunting of Darelle Revis to the TV cameras by signalling his uniform number (24) as he gleefully pointed to the replay of Baldwin's catch after he eluded Revis (by picking him off using a referee, which I actually thought was fairly clever). And Victoria, have you forgotten Sherman's taunting of Michael Crabtree last year?
It's a shame if any of the Patriots engaged in taunting during the parade, but it would be difficult to conclude that there was not ample provocation by the Seahawks here, which perhaps you might have included in your original comment for a more balanced approach.
It's a shame if any of the Patriots engaged in taunting during the parade, but it would be difficult to conclude that there was not ample provocation by the Seahawks here, which perhaps you might have included in your original comment for a more balanced approach.
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Huh? I think you need to give examples for this to be meaningful. I doubt that Brady or Belicheck or Edelman or Revis or Butler spent any time taunting Seattle.
Also, I am pretty sure that Carroll's not going anywhere, unless he quits. He coached a good year of football by any reckoning. And the final call was not THAT bad. Really, it wasn't. Unpopular, yeah. Bad, maybe. Awful? No. Just turned out badly.
Also, I am pretty sure that Carroll's not going anywhere, unless he quits. He coached a good year of football by any reckoning. And the final call was not THAT bad. Really, it wasn't. Unpopular, yeah. Bad, maybe. Awful? No. Just turned out badly.
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you mean like the Great Sportsmanship Seattle showed DURING the game. Faux pooping on the football, Sherman degrading Revis, and then sucker punching at the end of the game.
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I'm very sorry to see such old and worn-out tropes like "Spygate" (hidden cameras?) or new, weak ones like "Deflategate" in this article. What they are is a lazy shorthand for writers who refused learn physics, or don't understand the context of the narrow positional error for where one could stand while otherwise legitimately filming an opponent.
It reflects poorly on the scribbling class (who I otherwise support) that such tripe is pushed endlessly, instead of a more careful analysis that shows how relentlessly practicing, studying, and executing can allow otherwise "humble" personnel to excel. That's a much more valuable aspect to focus on, and something that the average person could learn from.
It reflects poorly on the scribbling class (who I otherwise support) that such tripe is pushed endlessly, instead of a more careful analysis that shows how relentlessly practicing, studying, and executing can allow otherwise "humble" personnel to excel. That's a much more valuable aspect to focus on, and something that the average person could learn from.
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"or don't understand the context of the narrow positional error for where one could stand while otherwise legitimately filming an opponent."
Ha... wild guess: Patriots fan?
Ha... wild guess: Patriots fan?
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Jim wild guess...you're a Pats hater?
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Funny how we forget that Carroll also made a gutsy call at the end of the 1st half to go for a touchdown with 6 seconds left rather than go for a field goal----a decision criticized at the time by some of the same TV commentators who criticized him for his call at the end of the game, and, of course forgot their criticism of the successful call at the end of the first half.
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Amen
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Exactly what I thought. Also the QB went off the field and conferred about that first half play, I thought because he (Wilson) was the one wanting to go for it. So at the end, they could have discussed the pass play as well, but they didn't - so everyone must have been on the same page.
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Bingo! B Hunter, your comment captures the essence well. Like so many other endeavors in life, successful football performances rely on reliable calculated risk assessment (among other skills). None of the "Monday morning" naysayers have any idea of the dynamics of high pressures decision making in the NFL so they should shut up.
4
Although I would agree with Mr. Rhoden that the NFL's investigation into deflated footballs is "laughable," I would disagree that this is because the Patriots have now won the Super Bowl. Well before gametime, it was the NFL investigation that was losing air:
1. The original NFL leak said all 11 balls were 2 PSI under the limit. Yet on Super Bowl Sunday the NFL's own website, NFL.com, effectively recanted. One ball was 2 PSI under the limit; others 1 PSI under the limit; still others "a few ticks" under 12.5 PSI.
2. Why does this matter? The Pittsburgh lab HeadSmart conducted experiments showing an average of 1.8 PSI lost (1 PSI from temperature, .8 from rain). Then "Mona Lisa Vito" Belichick also unequivocally denied wrongdoing and said that the team's re-creation of their game-day procedures had shown that cold and rain caused deflation.
3. Laughter! Scoffing! But last week the NY Times ran an article highlighting the Pittsburgh study and somewhat grudgingly acknowledging "Patriots May Have a Point."
4. But the Colts? They inflate to the max 13.5 PSI. Their balls very likely deflated too; we know only that they were "legal" at halftime. If they lost 1 PSI as Patriots' balls did, they'd end up at a legal 12.5. But the NFL never measured the starting pressures of EITHER the Colts or Patriots footballs. This is actually unfortunate for the Patriots, as it could more effectively show that both teams balls reacted similarly to the weather.
Laughable indeed.
1. The original NFL leak said all 11 balls were 2 PSI under the limit. Yet on Super Bowl Sunday the NFL's own website, NFL.com, effectively recanted. One ball was 2 PSI under the limit; others 1 PSI under the limit; still others "a few ticks" under 12.5 PSI.
2. Why does this matter? The Pittsburgh lab HeadSmart conducted experiments showing an average of 1.8 PSI lost (1 PSI from temperature, .8 from rain). Then "Mona Lisa Vito" Belichick also unequivocally denied wrongdoing and said that the team's re-creation of their game-day procedures had shown that cold and rain caused deflation.
3. Laughter! Scoffing! But last week the NY Times ran an article highlighting the Pittsburgh study and somewhat grudgingly acknowledging "Patriots May Have a Point."
4. But the Colts? They inflate to the max 13.5 PSI. Their balls very likely deflated too; we know only that they were "legal" at halftime. If they lost 1 PSI as Patriots' balls did, they'd end up at a legal 12.5. But the NFL never measured the starting pressures of EITHER the Colts or Patriots footballs. This is actually unfortunate for the Patriots, as it could more effectively show that both teams balls reacted similarly to the weather.
Laughable indeed.
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Let's ge something straight here. Seattle can NEVER completely overcome the worst call in sports history. Let me explain why in some detail.
It is a given absolutely true or not that had the Seahawks run the ball once, twice even three times if necessary to get the one yard they needed to win and NOT thrown the ball today the Seahawks would not only be SuperBowl champs but in the very rarified group that has ever won TWO in a row.
So here is the problem that will not go away ...
1) No matter what players say they can never feel quite the same about Pete Carroll BECAUSE of what it cost them because of a decision that never should have happened.
2) On the non-moneatry side each players career will be somewhat lessened by NOT winning that second SuperBowl in a row and even if they win more still one less than thy should have .
3) Maybe even much more it will cost them all $$$$$$ for no good reason as SuperBowl champs they ALL would have gotten endorsement and appearance fees they will not now get. The biggest losers of all Russell Wilson it may cost him tens of millions $$. In fact all of them now being the face of disaster no company or product will want to associate themselves.
Finally ..
4) Even in their contact negotiations and the offers they get from NFL teams another SuperBowl win would have been a valuable. negotiating tool.
So will the Seahawks get over this disaster. NO ! NEVER. It will haunt them for ever. It will even become part of their obituaries.
It is a given absolutely true or not that had the Seahawks run the ball once, twice even three times if necessary to get the one yard they needed to win and NOT thrown the ball today the Seahawks would not only be SuperBowl champs but in the very rarified group that has ever won TWO in a row.
So here is the problem that will not go away ...
1) No matter what players say they can never feel quite the same about Pete Carroll BECAUSE of what it cost them because of a decision that never should have happened.
2) On the non-moneatry side each players career will be somewhat lessened by NOT winning that second SuperBowl in a row and even if they win more still one less than thy should have .
3) Maybe even much more it will cost them all $$$$$$ for no good reason as SuperBowl champs they ALL would have gotten endorsement and appearance fees they will not now get. The biggest losers of all Russell Wilson it may cost him tens of millions $$. In fact all of them now being the face of disaster no company or product will want to associate themselves.
Finally ..
4) Even in their contact negotiations and the offers they get from NFL teams another SuperBowl win would have been a valuable. negotiating tool.
So will the Seahawks get over this disaster. NO ! NEVER. It will haunt them for ever. It will even become part of their obituaries.
6
Oh, please. This is just like an emotional break up. It is so painful at the time, but eventually you get over it, you put yourself back together, and you get on with life. If Seattle wins another Super Bowl in the next few years, this will be put behind them, just as if the Bills had won a Super Bowl after Scott Norwood's missed field goal. And unlike the Bills, Seattle already has a Super Bowl win - a definitive, dominant Super Bowl win. Can't take that away.
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Gee I guess your passion is um, cruel? Sad for your negativity.
Wow, it's just a game.
2
Pete Carroll is much more smarter than many of his critics. Give credit to Belichick for not taking time out which put Carroll and his coaching staff in dilemma of to run or not to run with time running out. The QB Wilson must have seen a sure catch, otherwise he would have thrown it away. The play call is fine. It just did not work out the way it is planned because of Butler who saw it all the way. I just want to see a fifth super bowl for New England Patriots. After that I can relax.
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Butler was screened from Wilson, who just dumped it at Lockett. Bang!
1
"Seattle has rebounded from losses before. In 2008, the city lost its N.B.A. franchise when the SuperSonics — then the only Seattle team with a championship on its résumé — moved to Oklahoma City."
Hey, hey... the Storm won in '04 (and '10) and of course there is the Metropolitans' Stanley Cup in 1917.
Hey, hey... the Storm won in '04 (and '10) and of course there is the Metropolitans' Stanley Cup in 1917.
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And those Metropolitans were the first American team to win the Stanley Cup!
5