I bet she didn't even know she was on the tracks...why? Because she was on the phone! Like so many others do when in traffic, just pay attention to the car in front, and as traffic moved forward, so did she, then she was surprised when she heard a thud on her car and got out to look.
The automobile was a terrific advance over horse-drawn vehicles in terms of grade-crossing risks. Particularly when trains were introduced beginning in 1830, horses panicked when encountering trains.
The night after the accident I needed to cross the Metro North tracks at Green Lane in Bedfod Hills. The car in front of me started to cross the tracks and the red lights started flashing. To my amazement, the car stopped and the barrier came down and hit the car's hood. I immediately backed up to allow the car to also back up, which it did. My rule is if the lights at the crossing start flashing when I am on the tracks, i step on the gas and get across the rails as quickly as possible. The barriers take several seconds to come down. Backing up takes more time than speeding forward across the tracks. Stopping on the tracks is a very bad choice. Better driver education is needed. Metro North can't prevent drivers from doing foolish things that ruin many lives.
I can understand how the woman came to be stuck on the tracks. It happened to me here in MA at a grade level RR crossing in heavy bumper to bumper traffic. I thought I would clear the tracks when traffic started moving and when it stopped, I was on the tracks with nowhere to go. Thank goodness no train came during the minute or two I was stuck there. I was lost in my thoughts (probably happens to most of us when we are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic) and obviously not paying attention to the very small "Do not stop on tracks". I'll never do it again. Why not install something more substantial than a small "Do not stop on tracks" sign to warn drivers at these grade level crossings? Maybe a continuously flashing yellow light with a larger sign? Wouldn't cost too much and might save lives.
3
Poor judgment on the part of this Jeep driver. Nobody should try "Beat the Gate". Metro-North commuter trains speed up to 60 mph in some stretches. Loss of life, loss of limbs, passengers' disability (permanent) are the result.
Perhaps NY/CT/NJ DMV agencies should promote a safety "No Beat the Gate" campaign. The gate automation goes active for a good reason: a train is 1/2 mile away and safety needs to be factored in.
Very sad, unfortunate.
Perhaps NY/CT/NJ DMV agencies should promote a safety "No Beat the Gate" campaign. The gate automation goes active for a good reason: a train is 1/2 mile away and safety needs to be factored in.
Very sad, unfortunate.
what's needed is just a sensor on the crossing gate that if it does not reach the required position, a signal is sent to the train far enough before the crossing that there is a problem and speed needs to be drastically reduced ASAP.
Just a few points about railroad crossings and heavy rail mass transit trains to note: If traffic across the railroad crossing is congested, note there is a limit line painted on the roadway before the point a crossing arm will come down to block the path. Stop at the limit line. Respect the distance. It is clearly marked in the graphic. Allow the vehicle in front of you to clear the tracks and allow at least one car length of space. Trains have an "dynamic/operating envelop" - the distance from the rail to a point on the side of the railcar and sway which may be from 24" to more than 36" beyond the rail. The position of the arm or gate account for this additional space and more. Encroachment or fouling the track includes the back end of your vehicle blocking the path of the train, so if in doubt, stay clear. Depending upon the speed of the train for that section of track, typically the train will cross the grade 20-30 seconds upon the signal and arm activation. (If crossing arms come down 60-90 seconds before a train crosses the roadway, there's a tendancy for drivers to go around the gates). Finally a commuter train travelling between 36-50mph will require 800 to 1100 feet for an emergency stop or nearly ¼ mile to come to a full stop. Respect the limit line and disregard the impatient honking behind you.
5
As someone who has been a daily commuter on all 3 lines in Westchester and CT, I'm no fan of Metro North. But I can't believe there are people blaming Metro North for what happened. Consider this: the average 4 door sedan at 3000 pounds traveling at 60mph needs about 120 to 130 feet to come to full stop. A single Metro North train car weighs 140,000. Multiply that by 8 cars (1.32 million) and it's a miracle that it didn't take a lot more than 1000 ft to stop. The engineer had no time to stop.
As Astorino said, this could have been even worse.
As Astorino said, this could have been even worse.
3
It sounds as if she was stuck in front of the gate because of traffic and got locked in when the gate came down. After seeing if she could left it manually, she tried to move forward to get the SUV out of the way of the train. This tragedy could have been avoided if they were to make a kind of gate that you can't go forward into, but that you can still back out of.
6
I wonder if she meant to back up, but was panicked and put the car into forward gear. Such a tragedy, and should be preventable.
1
I don't understand the explanation given by the driver behind the SUV. He said the gate came down and struck the back of the SUV. He backed up his car and tried to induce the SUV driver to also back up away from the tracks. But how could the SUV back up if the SUV was in front of the lowered gate?
1
You can break through the "gate" if necessary. It's just a single, horizontal bar. You might dent up your car, but you'll get through without injury.
It's meant to communicate a message, not prevent movement one way or the other.
It's meant to communicate a message, not prevent movement one way or the other.
7
I reached the point where I can't read the detail in the Times on this crash any more My wife was in a very similar passenger train crash in the early 2000's, riding in the front passenger car, just like the 5 dead passengers were this time
I realize today that but for the grace of God she could have burned to death too
In my wife's crash she was ejected from her seat, because passenger trains do not have seat belts
When she hit the table across the aisle, her spinal bones shattered, her spinal cord was crushed to 1/3 normal size and she was paralyzed The bounce-back from where she first landed threw her under a table Then the plastic ceiling and wall panels fell down and buried the table and my wife in the debris She was left lying on her side, with all of her ribs on the downside broken
Fortunately, the gas tank of the car my wife's train hit attached to the third train car, not hers That's where it caught on fire She could smell the smoke and was screaming in pain and panic
After my wife's crash, like many others, including this one in NY, the train car doors would not open The passengers could not get out and the rescuers could not get in the doors They had to climb through the windows, past huge sharp shards of broken glass
Thru the crash, NTSB investigation & court liability trial, we learned far too much
Readers please don't sit in the front car of these trains! The experts & lawyers call them COFFIN CARS
Sit in the center cars
I realize today that but for the grace of God she could have burned to death too
In my wife's crash she was ejected from her seat, because passenger trains do not have seat belts
When she hit the table across the aisle, her spinal bones shattered, her spinal cord was crushed to 1/3 normal size and she was paralyzed The bounce-back from where she first landed threw her under a table Then the plastic ceiling and wall panels fell down and buried the table and my wife in the debris She was left lying on her side, with all of her ribs on the downside broken
Fortunately, the gas tank of the car my wife's train hit attached to the third train car, not hers That's where it caught on fire She could smell the smoke and was screaming in pain and panic
After my wife's crash, like many others, including this one in NY, the train car doors would not open The passengers could not get out and the rescuers could not get in the doors They had to climb through the windows, past huge sharp shards of broken glass
Thru the crash, NTSB investigation & court liability trial, we learned far too much
Readers please don't sit in the front car of these trains! The experts & lawyers call them COFFIN CARS
Sit in the center cars
8
I was a reluctant passenger in a car once with a woman I hardly knew at the wheel on a snowy, icy day. She pulled up to a crowded intersection at a train crossing and the gate came down behind her. I realized she was disoriented and didn't realize a train was coming and she was inside the gate. She actually said, "What's that sound?" as she started to move forward. I yelled that it was a train and for her to stop as I frantically unbuckled my seat belt and started to open the door to run. She did stop but it was truly the scariest moment of my life.
I wonder if Ms. Brody even knew a train was coming, because I know from experience people can be overloaded with information, distracted, medicated, tired, or just confused. Deepest sympathy for everyone involved in this terrible accident.
I wonder if Ms. Brody even knew a train was coming, because I know from experience people can be overloaded with information, distracted, medicated, tired, or just confused. Deepest sympathy for everyone involved in this terrible accident.
7
Driving is not a spectator sport. Believe it or not you actually have to pay attention.
10
Is 58 mph through a busy high density traffic area too fast for a train to be going? I've been on long distance trains (Amtrak) where it seems that they slow down to like 20-30 mph (or less) when approaching a rail crossing. I don't know how anybody says MNR is not at fault here.
1
Honestly, the odds overwhelmingly suggest the driver caused the accident. There are no accounts written that state anything to the different. The witnesses seem to all indicate that all the warning were working perfectly. They seem to be in shock that she made the decisions she did. She made a tragic mistake in judgement. Unless something comes out which suggests that the crossing itself was not working it is simply a case of a driver who did not obey the rules of the road. Whether the train was going 5 mph or 100 mph it doesn't change the relevant issue of why she was where she was when she was. Would slowing the trains down and equipping them with high-tech systems make things safer. Yes. Would it eliminate all these accidents? No. Would it be justified when considering how rare these events are, how many days of the lives of commuters would be taken from them in a lifetime due to longer commutes, the huge increase in taxes such a nationwide project would require when most Americans already think they pay too much? Society would have to make the call between large societal costs and a small number of accidental deaths.
10
i don't know, because the railroad did not place the car on the tracks?
3
The NTSB will find out tomorrow what the actual speed was. So don't put out a number that can't be verified. The train has its own set path. It can't veer off to one side or another to avoid an object in its path. As a driver, it is common sense to pay attention to flashing lights at a crossing and really to watch out anytime you cross train tracks (if I recall correctly, there was a crash back in the 90s at another Metro North crossing because the signals failed).
It is all about money. Over pass or under pass for every crossing. They should eliminate by law a train crossing with any road.
5
I don't quite understand why this train system has a third electrified rail while running through a rural area. Wouldn't this be dangerous for people or animals that might come in contact with this? Why not use overhead electric lines with pantographs?
4
It's not as rural as you might think. We're not talking farm country here. Upper middle class suburb 25-30 miles out of NYC. This train line and the one to its west (the Hudson line) have not used an overhead line in a few decades. The New Haven line, which NY shares with CT, does and it seems to have more electrical breakdowns than the other two lines. So maybe that's why those 2 (which are completely in NY) aren't.
1
Everyone in the NYC suburbs is well-educated about never going onto the tracks for any reason. The presence of a third rail on the ground isn't as dangerous as you would think, because people never have any reason to cross the tracks (all the station platforms are elevated). I have never heard of someone being accidentally electrocuted on the Metro-North tracks. And as far as I can tell, the animals have no problem with it. My understanding is that the pantographs have a lot more maintenance problems than the third rail.
1
In the Chicago area, we had a similar train accident a dozen years ago. They reworked the traffic lights at certain intersections so that the railroad signals turn all lights green moving away from the tracks to allow cars to clear congested intersections so that any car on the tracks or close to the gates can escape in plenty of time. No one will get caught on the tracks due to traffic. I never stop on the tracks, even in heavy traffic. No good can come from that.
10
Cars and trains equipped with radar and computer vision speed and distance detector and adaptive cruise control are already available in many luxury and not-so-luxury vehicles - why not mandate their widespread deployment nationwide?
1
It should be pounded into every driver's head that anything is better than remaining on railroad tracks. Drive forward or backwards through the crossing gate arms if you must. Bodywork and glass can be repaired.
10
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims' families. What a horrible sequence of events, made sadder by the suggestion that Mrs. Brody may have been confused at what seems to be a poorly-lit crossing in the dark of night. Perhaps she took the Taconic Parkway normally and rerouted because of the accident there, and was unfamiliar with that stretch of road in Valhalla. Grade crossings are always going to be dangerous. Maybe it's time to convert this one.
5
Divers should be reminded never to pull into an intersection they cannot clear (blocking the box). Especially an intersection with train tracks! I don't know if this was at play in this incident, but it is a very tragic outcome.
13
Everyone assumes that she deliberately drove her car forward and crashed into the oncoming train. However, has anyone considered that she might have wanted to backup but forgot to put the car in reverse? Haven’t we all done that? That might shed a light into the question, “what was she thinking?”
14
This highlights the need to invest in infrastructure - especially mass transit infrastructure. This is gobsmackingly obvious to everyone except Fundamentalist Repubs in Congress.
This obsession with low taxes is leading this country into third world status and endangering the life of our citizenry
This obsession with low taxes is leading this country into third world status and endangering the life of our citizenry
18
THe Board of the MTA is appointed by a Democrat governor. Almost all the members are public officials (mayors and county executives). The question of budgets and infrastructure spending is therefor by definition political and the glaring defects in the MTA's infrastructure have been caused by Democrats not Fundamentalist Repubs.
2
In this day and age, we should have underpasses and overpasses, no crossings. Accidents like this would be a thing of the past.
Damn the cost. What will be the cost of this one accident alone, just in the multiple law suits that are sure to come, to Metro North, the City of Valhalla and the State of New York? That's just the dollars-and-cents cost, not even touching the cost in lost human lives, which of course is incalculable.
This kind of accident simply should not be part of life in a supposed First World country.
Damn the cost. What will be the cost of this one accident alone, just in the multiple law suits that are sure to come, to Metro North, the City of Valhalla and the State of New York? That's just the dollars-and-cents cost, not even touching the cost in lost human lives, which of course is incalculable.
This kind of accident simply should not be part of life in a supposed First World country.
19
As a college student who has commuted on the Harlem line for four years, I have to say this is devastating and frightening to hear. I'm currently applying for jobs in NYC, and this accident quite honestly is making me rethink the decision. The biggest question, for me, is why the train so violently burst into flames. There is countless footage of trains hitting cars; they rarely implode in this way. Was there something wrong with that third rail that made it so easily penetrate the car? Prayers for all of the victims and their heartbroken families!
14
Gasoline. Metal to metal contact. Sparks. Electric third rail being ripped up by the impact (400 feet) and additional sparks. Fire.
1
The fire that burnt so hot should be in question. Electrical arc can get up 2500 degrees F. My heart goes out to the poor folks just trying to get home. Bless them and their loved ones.
10
This is what happens when any mention of public spending for infrastructure is considered overreach by the government in Washington and virtually no upgrade is funded over the last several years.
I concede that the cause is unclear at this point and it might be the folly of the woman who got stuck in her SUV but USA deserves to have no grade crossings in this day and age and this should have been converted to an underpass.
I concede that the cause is unclear at this point and it might be the folly of the woman who got stuck in her SUV but USA deserves to have no grade crossings in this day and age and this should have been converted to an underpass.
20
I wasn't in the driver's seat and don't know what she was thinking but I would have rammed through the track warning arms rather than get hit by the train.
14
I can not be sure but I think I saw a video...perhaps it was a still of her car on the tracks before being hit. It seemed like she was caught and could not move it up and over. Like the wheels could not grab. She may have been stuck. Then time ran out. I so wish she had stayed out of the car...at least she would not have died. This is so traumatic and tragic.
7
You have no idea how you would react in the same situation. It could have been any of us in that tragedy.
1
In the so called "third world" accidents like this are unfortunately commonplace. Such accidents seem to be becoming more frequent here in the US. Does that foretell where this country is headed?
15
With a growing population, we need more modern infrastructure for transportation and utilities, otherwise we may see more tragedies. My condolences to the friends and families of the victims!
9
It does get confusing on the roads when there are accidents especially if the person is not familiar with the area. The other things that don't help are the lack of good lighting on many of the parkways and main roads as well as poor signage. I've lived in Westchester my whole life and the lack of street signs and the poor lighting at night is a real problem. When there is an accident, especially one that closes roads, people get lost. I've often thought that the police should have a unit dedicated to directing the traffic when that sort of accident occurs. It's possible that Ms. Brody had no idea where she was or of the danger she was in.
Another thing to consider is that she may have felt compelled to go across the tracks because she didn't want anyone honking at her. It can be hard to be patient when one knows the area and the driver in front doesn't or is cautious. We've all had the experience of stopping at a light just before it turns red only to hear the driver behind us make a short stop because they thought we would go through so they could follow.
I feel for all the families and friends affected by this. It's horrible. But, until we know what happened we can't expect a fix. The only thing I can think of is that we, as drivers, need to be more patient on the road.
Another thing to consider is that she may have felt compelled to go across the tracks because she didn't want anyone honking at her. It can be hard to be patient when one knows the area and the driver in front doesn't or is cautious. We've all had the experience of stopping at a light just before it turns red only to hear the driver behind us make a short stop because they thought we would go through so they could follow.
I feel for all the families and friends affected by this. It's horrible. But, until we know what happened we can't expect a fix. The only thing I can think of is that we, as drivers, need to be more patient on the road.
20
It is horrible.
But if people don't have the fortitude to stand up to menacing and honking from behind, they really don't belong behind the wheel. There is more to being a safe driver than knowing how to use the car's basic controls.
But if people don't have the fortitude to stand up to menacing and honking from behind, they really don't belong behind the wheel. There is more to being a safe driver than knowing how to use the car's basic controls.
20
This woman obviously made a mistake, which cost several lives. Let's please be sensitive and refrain from judging her. A lifetime of good decisions and character can evaporate in a moment of bad judgement. Any one of us could have acted similarly, as we can never know how we will react when under true duress.
24
bk:
I don't think most people are "judging her"—just her actions and the situation.
I don't think most people are "judging her"—just her actions and the situation.
13
Tell that to the families of the people that perished on the train.
2
I agree no one should rush to judgment on the SUV I just read in a later-posted NY Times article that the crossing gate arm came down on Mrs Brody's car, pinning the car in place
Is that pinning down function normal at train crossings across the United States? I do not know the answer The NTSB will tell us
However, this adds an interesting aspect to the crash If the crossing arm malfunctioned by pinning down the Brody car, the victims might have recourse against the train line for their injuries and losses
If the crossing arm IS designed to pin down the car, then there's a 99% chance the self-professed experts at Federal Railroad Board (FRB) approved its function, meaning that there will be no recovery for the victims losses
In the 2005 Glendale CA passenger train crash which killed 11 & severely injured many more, the appellate courts ruled that under controlling Federal law, the FRB's decisions & approvals on every aspect of train design & operation insulate the railroad operator from liability for negligence & gross negligence if the train line complies & relies It's called "Federal preemption"
The FRB & its employees can be biased, negligent, stupid or outright corrupt, but when FRB makes a decision the entire population of the US is stuck with that decision.
To save the train lines money FRB decided No cow catchers on these exposed lead passenger cars, no bar of exposed lead cars, push mode OK, no seatbelts, no manual safety exists, allowing tables
Is that pinning down function normal at train crossings across the United States? I do not know the answer The NTSB will tell us
However, this adds an interesting aspect to the crash If the crossing arm malfunctioned by pinning down the Brody car, the victims might have recourse against the train line for their injuries and losses
If the crossing arm IS designed to pin down the car, then there's a 99% chance the self-professed experts at Federal Railroad Board (FRB) approved its function, meaning that there will be no recovery for the victims losses
In the 2005 Glendale CA passenger train crash which killed 11 & severely injured many more, the appellate courts ruled that under controlling Federal law, the FRB's decisions & approvals on every aspect of train design & operation insulate the railroad operator from liability for negligence & gross negligence if the train line complies & relies It's called "Federal preemption"
The FRB & its employees can be biased, negligent, stupid or outright corrupt, but when FRB makes a decision the entire population of the US is stuck with that decision.
To save the train lines money FRB decided No cow catchers on these exposed lead passenger cars, no bar of exposed lead cars, push mode OK, no seatbelts, no manual safety exists, allowing tables
1
I don't if anyone has suggested this, but given today's technology, isn't it possible to equip trains with the means to detect barriers(metal road vehicles) on the tracks far enough away that the train can slow down before the impediment is visible to the train operator. This would seem to be a lot cheaper than building over- or underpasses.
4
How many of these accidents involve cars that get "stuck" on tracks when the train is still miles away?
5
@ fschoem44:
Posted in 2008, after the horrific 25 dead, hundreds severely injured Chatsworth CA passenger train crash, on a train operators/engineers chat board, one California train operator stated that if he slowed down or stopped his train for every blockage he saw ahead on the tracks, he would be fired by the train line's management, because of their insistence that he "plow through" if necessary to stay on schedule.
That's a very scary admission with respect to every train line to which that policy applies. However, it illustrates the fact that what you suggest would never be agreed to by the train line operators, because in fact some obstructions seen by a train operator do, in fact, move off the tracks before the trains hit them.
Posted in 2008, after the horrific 25 dead, hundreds severely injured Chatsworth CA passenger train crash, on a train operators/engineers chat board, one California train operator stated that if he slowed down or stopped his train for every blockage he saw ahead on the tracks, he would be fired by the train line's management, because of their insistence that he "plow through" if necessary to stay on schedule.
That's a very scary admission with respect to every train line to which that policy applies. However, it illustrates the fact that what you suggest would never be agreed to by the train line operators, because in fact some obstructions seen by a train operator do, in fact, move off the tracks before the trains hit them.
2
It is impossible for trains to simply "stop." They have thousands and thousands of tons of momentum. By the time you are in visual range of the driver, it is too late. She should have let the Mercedes go and gotten off the tracks.
15
Tons are a measurement of weight .ie: How much the earth's gravity is pulling on a certain amount of mass. Momentum is a measurement of the force of a certain amount of mass as it moves at a certain speed. It is mass in motion. It is calculated by multiplying the mass of an object by it's speed. Not by weighing it.
2
Just don't follow another car across any kind of intersection, especially train tracks, unless there is a clear space for you on the other side. Simple as that. One won't be stuck in the middle unless the car stalls or has mechanicala issues.
10
But one WILL get stuck in the middle if the arm of the train crossing is so heavy it pins down your car or traps it. While your statement is true as a general principle, we'll have to wait and see what the NTSB says happened. Was Mrs Brody's car pinned or not?
Was she following another car? I'd not seen that.
As someone who doesn't have much experience with at-grade railroad crossings, can someone tell me: is there a period of time when the lights are flashing before the gates go down to serve as a warning? If someone were on the tracks when the lights came on this would be enough time to finish crossing safely, and if someone was approaching the intersection at the speed limit, this would be enough time to stop.
I'm confused as to how someone could have ended up on the tracks who was not somehow trying to beat the train, unless the lights and gates start going down simultaneously. Or, the crossing was malfunctioning.
I'm confused as to how someone could have ended up on the tracks who was not somehow trying to beat the train, unless the lights and gates start going down simultaneously. Or, the crossing was malfunctioning.
5
Because she was probably tailgating the vehicle in front of her in slow and just moving along following that car's taillights instead of pro-actively driving her own vehicle. So when the traffic ahead stopped suddenly, apparently due to cross traffic on the parkway, she had allowed herself no margin of safety and could not pull forward.
People get irked with me for leaving several car lengths between me and the vehicle ahead, in stop & go traffic, but I believe in always having an escape route.
People get irked with me for leaving several car lengths between me and the vehicle ahead, in stop & go traffic, but I believe in always having an escape route.
23
The lights start first, maybe go for five to fifteen seconds before the gates begin to slowly go down.
The lights are on the poles facing the OUTSIDE of the crossing, though, so if you are on the tracks, you won't see them.
You are never supposed to be on the tracks for more than a few seconds, because if there isn't enough room for you to go to on the opposite side of the tracks, you are not supposed to begin crossing them, for this exact reason.
It's basic Drivers' Education.
Trains go very fast, but stop very slowly, so the only thing the engineer can do after he sees someone on the tracks is hit the emergency brake and watch something occur that will replay in his nightmares for the rest of his life.
The lights are on the poles facing the OUTSIDE of the crossing, though, so if you are on the tracks, you won't see them.
You are never supposed to be on the tracks for more than a few seconds, because if there isn't enough room for you to go to on the opposite side of the tracks, you are not supposed to begin crossing them, for this exact reason.
It's basic Drivers' Education.
Trains go very fast, but stop very slowly, so the only thing the engineer can do after he sees someone on the tracks is hit the emergency brake and watch something occur that will replay in his nightmares for the rest of his life.
26
Thanks for that explanation. It's like what drivers do in NYC: don't block the box, except it's don't block the tracks. And, I think that's generally a good idea. Don't drive into the track area, until you can drive through the track area. Seems like a no brainer!
7
A cramped level grade train crossing at the entrance to a Parkway - an electrified line no less! Hard to believe except for the fact that there is another one South of the accident site at Reader's Digest and the Saw Mill Parkway.
7
What does it matter that the train line's electrified? A diesel engine could have just as easily exploded.
4
Well what do you take away from this accident? Is it too far fetched to posit that when a train dargs a motor vehicle for 400 feet there is a good chance that the third rail will be ripped up with catastrophic results. Melting a railway car with an electric arc is not possible on a diesel line. I assume that is why so many third rail electrified lines are below ground level and why it seems a terrible idea to have grade level crossings.
5
Anyone can (illegally) wander up the right-of-way and get electrocuted. Think of kids playing. Non-electrified tracks pose no such danger. That's why in the metropolitan area, almost all grade crossings are for non-electrified tracks. In the case of overhead wire (catenary), there is no danger of electrocution on the ground, but any electrified rail line has much greater frequency of service than non-electrified.
Could the driver of the SUV have driven through the gate, or is that only possible in movies?
4
Easy to back out because crossing gates are designed not to block the entire pathway - there's enough room to back out (or to drive thru the other side). Also, I believe they're designed to easily break if hit by a vehicle.
1
Yes, one can drive through the gates if necessary, but there is plenty of warning before they go down.
Sorry, but this is clearly not the fault of the train operator or most likely anyone other than Mrs. Brody, even if Andrea Mitchell a/k/a Mrs. Greenspan announced in semi-shocked tones today, "the train didn't even stop!" Oh my, cable news at its usual level of competence. Trains can't stop in the same distance as automobiles, people. Get some information newscasters, and learn as well that we call them gates, not "bars", and cars which stop on tracks are not necessarily "stuck",(implying mechanical or environmental futility of movement). But no, cable must find a person or entity to blame and a soulless railroad fits the bill, so rush to judgment.
28
Well we don't know whether the gate was functioning properly but we do know that a level grade railroad crossing was placed right at a Parkway entrance.- Want to blame the SUV driver for that or could it actually be the fault of a soulless railroad - the same railroad run by political appointees and named as the most dangerous commuter railroad in the US?
2
The crossing has been there since the Taconic Parkway was built in the 1920s, so I kinda doubt Metro-North, which was founded in the 1980s, is to blame for this.
12
Did MNR "place" the crossing at the Parkway entrance? Sure about that? I'm pretty certain the rail line was there long before the Parkway was built. Why don't you direct your anger at the parkway authority for placing an exit/entrance right on a railroad crossing?
8
"It also caused the electrified third rail to tear from the tracks and rip through the first car in the train."
An electrified third rail on an at-grade railway! And at an intersection with auto and pedestrian traffic. Hard to believe!
An electrified third rail on an at-grade railway! And at an intersection with auto and pedestrian traffic. Hard to believe!
5
There is a gap in the third rail at the grade crossing.
12
Most of these have been eliminated. The LIRR elevated the Babylon line in the sixties - prior to that, that high-trafficked line (electrified with third rail) had numerous grade crossings. The Valhalla crossing is one of the very few third-rail-electrified crossings left in the NY area. I wouldn't be surprised if it's completely eliminated now.
Yes, the Babylon line is no longer at grade. However, at-grade 3rd-rail-powered lines include the main line through Bethpage and Farmingdale to Ronkonkoma, the Hempstead line, the West Hempstead line and the Far Rockaway line. There are many many such crossings on these lines.
In a way, that woman trying to flag the train to stop was a heroine. It is too bad she didn't realize it is virtually impossible for a train to stop in time under those circumstances.
6
Huh? The article indicates that the woman who tried to flag the train to stop was the driver of the car that was hit, i.e., the one who caused the whole thing.
13
On the radio today, directly after news about this horrible crash, was an announcement that soon we will be able to find out our HIV status (among other lab tests) using a smartphone.
If technology is that advanced that we can soon test ourselves for diseases, why in the world can't we do something to ensure that what happened to Ellen Brody and the people on the train never happens again?
Money needs to be spent, regulations need to be made and if that has to come from taxes, then so be it.
When I left NYC, I moved somewhere with railroad crossings. I hate them and avoided them like the plague at first but now I've gotten used to them.
A tragedy all the way around.
If technology is that advanced that we can soon test ourselves for diseases, why in the world can't we do something to ensure that what happened to Ellen Brody and the people on the train never happens again?
Money needs to be spent, regulations need to be made and if that has to come from taxes, then so be it.
When I left NYC, I moved somewhere with railroad crossings. I hate them and avoided them like the plague at first but now I've gotten used to them.
A tragedy all the way around.
3
I know it will be retrogression. But manually operated crossings seems to be a lot safer especially when the operator gets a heads up.
2
Obviously this outmoded car/train relationship has to be corrected. Too many suicide people around these days, either for personnel or religious reasons, to continue this. This is no longer the 20th century, let the alone the 19th century.
5
It seems pretty simple. Why isnt there a GoPro video camera at each street-level crossing so the trains conductor can see ahead if there is any danger, well before he can see it visually with his own eyes. Also, rather than just a wooden crossbar that comes down to prevent cars from crossing there should be a more urgent and ominous flashing sign that says "fast approaching train - extreme danger", or maybe, "fast approaching train, impact in 20 seconds" (with the sign counting down the seconds until " 0" or "impact".
2
I doubt that this type of warning would work for the kind of person who stops a car on the tracks and gets out to look for damage.
25
It's not "just a wooden crossbar". There are flashing lights and a ringing bell. That means "fast approaching train" in EVERY language, not just the English signage you suggest.
25
Or why not install pressure sensors to detect cars at crossings and then notify the train.
I know we have pressure sensors that detect cars at stoplights.
I know we have pressure sensors that detect cars at stoplights.
5
The Swiss do this.
7
If this isn't an example of the need all across this country for better infrastructure, I don't know what is. Trains running through towns and cities at high speeds with a few bells and flashing lights are disasters waiting to happen. This is yet another wake-up call for our leaders to do the right thing. The 64 thousand dollar question is, will they.
10
I suppose the families and friends of the 30,000 or so Americans killed yearly in car crashes might argue that having distracted drivers running through cities and towns at high speeds are disasters waiting to happen.
How many trains traverse grade crossings every hour in this country? How many incidents such as this?
How many trains traverse grade crossings every hour in this country? How many incidents such as this?
16
Will they? Of course not.
Unless Congress passes a specific train safety law mandating specific equipment under certain circumstances, all decision making power is in the hand of the Federal Railroad Board (FRB) which is controlled lock, stock and barrel by the economic interests of the freight train industry in avoiding negligence liability for harm to people or their property.
The death grip of the Federal Railroad Board on train safety regulation is becoming all the more important, and all the more potentially disastrous, given the massive increase in the hauling of toxic gases, natural gas, gasoline and oil in train cars. Go on Wikipedia and read up on the Lac-Megantic Rail Disaster in 2013. If the wrongful death and personal injury litigation from that disaster was litigated in the United States, I think that it's possible that the train line would escape liability because they might be able to prove that they operated and parked their train in compliance with FRB regulations.
Wake up people! You are at desperate risk while riding on commuter trains because of the stranglehold by the freight train industry on FRB safety related decision making. If a freight train blows up in your town and kills you, your widow/er and children might not get a penny in reparations because of FRB.
Understand that the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation and safety recommendations are JUST ADVISORY.
and barrel by the freight train industry.
Unless Congress passes a specific train safety law mandating specific equipment under certain circumstances, all decision making power is in the hand of the Federal Railroad Board (FRB) which is controlled lock, stock and barrel by the economic interests of the freight train industry in avoiding negligence liability for harm to people or their property.
The death grip of the Federal Railroad Board on train safety regulation is becoming all the more important, and all the more potentially disastrous, given the massive increase in the hauling of toxic gases, natural gas, gasoline and oil in train cars. Go on Wikipedia and read up on the Lac-Megantic Rail Disaster in 2013. If the wrongful death and personal injury litigation from that disaster was litigated in the United States, I think that it's possible that the train line would escape liability because they might be able to prove that they operated and parked their train in compliance with FRB regulations.
Wake up people! You are at desperate risk while riding on commuter trains because of the stranglehold by the freight train industry on FRB safety related decision making. If a freight train blows up in your town and kills you, your widow/er and children might not get a penny in reparations because of FRB.
Understand that the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation and safety recommendations are JUST ADVISORY.
and barrel by the freight train industry.
7
Unfortunately, we always find billions of dollars available for the Pentagon any time to boost our Military industrial complex, to fight nonsense wars overseas, but to fix our old infra-structure, or to improve public education or to help the elderly and poor citizens, Congress/ Senate fights and call this attitude " socialist". I call their attitude "criminalist". I take my daughter to Bronxville Station practically every morning, and I could not even think , that everyone is so vulnerable for accidents any second of the day. I had hard time to park the car because the Metro North did a very poor job cleaning the snow around the side-walks, and around the rails. (Their responsibility ), It's a shame, it's terrible that innocent people die because of politics and their preferences. Mr. Cuomo! your administration with the Mayor from NY City, Senate, need to work immediately to fix the Rail-roads, and other major infra-structure, immediately we need to make better engineering projects, change routes for cars, around small villages or towns. accidents like that should never happen. My heart goes to the families. It's a emergency. Don't talk about budget, because the priority of any decent government (state or federal), should be Housing , Health, Education and Transportation ( modern and safe). This is obligation, no matter who is in charge ,democrats, republicans independent, or whatever.This is the basic necessity of human being to function in any society.
14
This is unfortunately terribly simple. Never ever stop your vehicle on train tracks. If there is not space to cross them because of stopped traffic ahead, do not move forward, no matter what--just wait until there is enough space to completely cross them. Never mind what people behind you might do--let them beep or whatever else. Just wait until there is space to cross all the way over the tracks. However, this poor woman may not have been able to see the cross bar in the dark on an unfamiliar street, so her car was on the tracks. The driver behind her backed up, but she tried to go forward instead and evidently became stuck. At that point--LEAVE your vehicle there, and move far away from the tracks as fast as you can. Trains are incredibly heavy and simply cannot stop immediately--that is not possible. By the time the engineer sees anything on the tracks and hits emergency stop--which they do immediately, as this one did--the train cannot stop in time to miss it. I have been on the Empire Builder, a long-distance train from Seattle to Chicago, when we hit a pickup truck stuck on the tracks. Thank goodness the people in the vehicle left it and ran away from the tracks, so no-one was hurt. This train, which was very long, was so heavy that we did not even wiggle on the tracks, and only knew something was wrong because of the emergency stop. NEVER stop your vehicle on train tracks. If you do get stuck, LEAVE your vehicle and get away from it. Please.
19
I was on that train yesterday, and thankfully made it home to my family. I usually sit in the quiet car to nap before I get home to the kids. In some stroke of luck yesterday, I sat in the middle of the train (in a talking car) so I could call the kids to check in.
Now that I've had time to reflect and realize now that passengers had died (none of us knew at the time), its starting to sink in.
Besides being told we had hit a car on the loudspeaker, I was disappointed that there were no instructions to the passengers in the train. Some passengers waited to hear an announcement. Once I smelled gas, I thought the only sensible thing to do was get air or get off the train. Some of us got of when a passenger opened the door, others chose to stay. We jumped into a snowbank with a narrow river next to it, in the black of night. Fortunately I had a level-headed neighbor with me who kept me calm.
I am thinking and praying for the families of the commuters, conductor, and driver. I am thankful to the kind first responders, the generous employees at the Cliffs rock climbing gym, the Good Samaritan from Hawthorne who drove my Katonah neighbors and me up a mile to Gordo's and my ride home to my family. Counting my blessings.
Now that I've had time to reflect and realize now that passengers had died (none of us knew at the time), its starting to sink in.
Besides being told we had hit a car on the loudspeaker, I was disappointed that there were no instructions to the passengers in the train. Some passengers waited to hear an announcement. Once I smelled gas, I thought the only sensible thing to do was get air or get off the train. Some of us got of when a passenger opened the door, others chose to stay. We jumped into a snowbank with a narrow river next to it, in the black of night. Fortunately I had a level-headed neighbor with me who kept me calm.
I am thinking and praying for the families of the commuters, conductor, and driver. I am thankful to the kind first responders, the generous employees at the Cliffs rock climbing gym, the Good Samaritan from Hawthorne who drove my Katonah neighbors and me up a mile to Gordo's and my ride home to my family. Counting my blessings.
43
You mean to say that no one can figure this out? There was traffic. Everyone was in a rush. Who knows, maybe the traffic was slow moving through the cross over and she didn't leave space in front of her when she got to the crossing and she got trapped, panicked and some how thought that waving for a train to stop would work. OR, she tried to beat the gate, since she was the "next" to go over, got trapped and the same as above. The fact that she got out, checked for damage, and then tried to proceed ahead, rather than back up off the crossover, speaks volumes in support of confusion or very poor judgement. The fact that she got out and tried to wave the train to stop is what sets this accident apart from every other. As the Governor said, she may have gotten "confused." If it was my mother, sister or daughter, I don't know what I would say, but I would feel awfully bad for her, no matter what is the explanation. People just don't set out in the morning to go to work with the excpectation that they will never come home, having been run over by a train.
16
Where did you see that she got out and waved? It was dark.
Crossing like these should be replaced with bridges over the tracks. With the leftover snow and crowd of evening traffic this was an accident waiting to happen. Infrastructure spending is way overdue. Maybe closing some of these crossing and replacing them with multilane roads over the tracks would be something to think of. People should know the train always wins
4
Even if the driver were confused and/or couldn't see well enough in the dark, it seems pretty clear from accounts (which indicate that she was trying to flag the train down) that she knew a train was about to bear down on her SUV. So I'm perplexed as to why she remained in the vicinity and didn't instead run as far away as she could. I can't imagine she was trying to stop a.... speeding locomotive ....all to...save her SUV? That can't be possible? So one has to wonder what was going on in her head. Either way it sounded horrific for all involved.
15
Perhaps it was more than saving her car - she may have been frantic to stop the accident, because she knew what could happen - and did. Had she run, she would have saved herself, but not the passengers on the train. I think panic has a much bigger impact than some of us imagine.
4
“It looks like where she stopped she did not want to go on the tracks, but the proximity of the gate to her car, you know, it was dark — maybe she didn’t know she was in front of the gate,” said a driver in a car behind her. From the overhead photo of the area (taken in daylight), due to the non-90 degree crossing configuration, it looks like the gate may be further away from the tracks at an angle than many other gates are routinely located. It is also possible that she was either following closely enough behind the vehicle in front of her or the Mercedes' nose obscured the white line from her vision, particularly in the dark. It seems quite possible that, if she had never or rarely used this crossing, she did not realize exactly where the gate would descend, and once down, it prevented her from backing up, and left the front of her car protruding into the track area. She realized this, then attempted to move forward to completely remove her car from that area and could not do so, for whatever reason. We'll see what the NTSB says.
3
Look at some more aerial photos of the intersection:
If the back of her car was against the gate, the front was almost definitely not all the way to the Eastern (northbound) track.
Had she stayed put, she'd have been fine. It looks like she got confused and panicked, and, in fast-moving life or death situations, confusion and panic are often deadly.
If the back of her car was against the gate, the front was almost definitely not all the way to the Eastern (northbound) track.
Had she stayed put, she'd have been fine. It looks like she got confused and panicked, and, in fast-moving life or death situations, confusion and panic are often deadly.
11
A little sensationalism here? The first paragraph of the story makes it sound like there's some big mystery about how Ms. Brody's car got stuck on the tracks, but the story later gives the predictable simple explanation: The gates went down and there she was, unable to go forward or backward.
Two rules of thumb.
One: Never drive onto a railroad track unless you have room to drive all the way across it (not saying that's what she did, but drivers do all too frequently).
Two: If your car gets stuck on the tracks, get out and run away as fast and far as you can. The engineer (actually, "motorman" is usually the term for the operator of an electric train) is going to see your car but very likely won't have time to stop the train anyway. The people on the train, tragically, were doomed; but Ms. Brody perhaps could have saved herself.
Two rules of thumb.
One: Never drive onto a railroad track unless you have room to drive all the way across it (not saying that's what she did, but drivers do all too frequently).
Two: If your car gets stuck on the tracks, get out and run away as fast and far as you can. The engineer (actually, "motorman" is usually the term for the operator of an electric train) is going to see your car but very likely won't have time to stop the train anyway. The people on the train, tragically, were doomed; but Ms. Brody perhaps could have saved herself.
12
commuting to and from Manhattan on a daily basis is one of the unfortunate legacies we have inherited from the past. In those days people needed to work in congested hubs in order to know what was going on and who was doing what. We do not need to work all piled up on top of each other any longer. We can stay very connected when working remotely. The real estate industry is not hearing this and is all set to build huge, hundred-plus story office towers in east midtown for all the commuters of the future. But maybe in the future, people will wish to work in a less stressful and more humane manner.
10
2000 train-auto collisions at crossings each year, with 250 fatalities (FRA-DOT stats). This will happen again.
Make it harder for the third rail to tear up from the tracks.
Design the fronts of the passenger cars to anticipate and withstand a crash into a vehicle. Remember the cowcatcher?
Make it harder for the third rail to tear up from the tracks.
Design the fronts of the passenger cars to anticipate and withstand a crash into a vehicle. Remember the cowcatcher?
5
To my knowledge, lights flash at all train crossings a minimum of 15-20 seconds before the barriers go down. Once they have started to go down there is plenty of time to cross the tracks if you have started onto them. In other words, wittingly or unwittingly, this woman drove onto the tracks long long after the lights were flashing.
I would be interested to know if she was on her phone. My guess is yes.
It would be a public disservice to not publish this information, and, if she was on her phone, to use this as a public service message as to why not paying attention at railroad crossings can be fatal.
I would be interested to know if she was on her phone. My guess is yes.
It would be a public disservice to not publish this information, and, if she was on her phone, to use this as a public service message as to why not paying attention at railroad crossings can be fatal.
22
It strikes me as terribly unfair to speculate about things like being on her phone. Based on the eyewitness accounts, which seem to suggest she may have thought she was not on the track, but was stopped waiting when the gate went down, it's more reasonable to speculate that she panicked. Most people are capable of panic, don't you think? And when we panic, needing to make a life or death decision in an instant, we do all kinds of illogical things - like pulling forward rather than backing up and trying frantically to flag down a train..
3
I wonder why they cannot build an object sensor on tracks and have that sensor show a red light for on-coming train. In Chicago, I have seen traffic intersections where the sensor determines how long the green should stay on and whether the turn light needs to be green. It is not a difficult thing to do, and they should have it at every unmanned (aren't all of them unmanned) railroad crossings. If any politician needs help, have them contact me. Email: [email protected]
3
Because that's infrastructure and we have a Congress dedicated to keep us in the 19th century. As if you already didn't know. Why is it that only trail lawyers are the only forces for improvement?
12
This is so sad all round, but things like this will continue to happen unless we as a nation do what we ought. The blind resistance to any tax increase or reform has led to underfunding practically everything we expect our government to do -- food inspection, drug testing, health care for veterans and others, education in general for all future employees, humane treatment of the vulnerable, unemployed and invalid, yes a staff of IRS auditors, AND our entire transportation (and power) infrastructure are being driven back to performance levels that have been unacceptable for our country since the early twentieth century. The greedy rich and short-sighted non-rich gleefully applaud slogans for shrinking the government, and how did it become clever rather than reprehensible for businesses to move their headquarters outside the U.S. to evade taxes? "Accidents" like this will become routine unless we as a nation decide we're in it together and bring ourselves into the 21st century.
21
Let this tragedy be a stark reminder for all of us as drivers to slow down, don't take chances like trying to beat the light and don't tailgate.
14
I'm glad someone brought up tailgating. You see it all the time, even on highways with cars going 70+ mph, right up the back of the car in front. Accidents waiting to happen.
5
Does the technology exist for "smart railroad ties" that could signal when there is a weight on the tracks that does not normally indicate a train? That signal could activate a camera at the crossing and then the oncoming train would be able to see whatever object is on the tracks, such as a car, but also animals or people. There is technology now to make traffic lights change depending on the weight on a road. Anything that would help save lives is worth investigating at least.
4
Here on the Chicago suburbs, it's amazingly common to have these grade level crossings. Most are normal streets. There must be close to 2,000 of these type of crossings. What I've noticed is becoming more common, especially at intersections near stations that are likely to draw traffic, is that there will be 2 sets of lights before the rails. You stop at the first set and don't proceed until both are green. It takes into account the likelyhood that one car might not stop at the first set and provides plenty of clearance (4-5 car lengths) between the light and the tracks. Real estate dictates that some even put stretch the 2 gates around a 90° road turn. (Not all feature this - quite a few, even in the most affluent towns, don't even feature gates. But these are not heavily trafficked, just "hop over" crossings.)
This intersection appears to have very little room for error. It's not feasible to replace every road level crossing. But we can engineer intersections to reduce the chances.
This intersection appears to have very little room for error. It's not feasible to replace every road level crossing. But we can engineer intersections to reduce the chances.
7
You're absolutely right that there is simply less real estate to work with in the NY Metro Area, in contrast to Chicago. I happen to be from Chicago, and my father was hit by a train in a similar situation 20 years ago (in Arlington Heights, at the race track station- luckily he survived). He had just existed the train station parking lot and saw a yellow light ahead of him, and, as is the inclination for anyone crossing the street, he tried to back up when the gates came down. The front end of his (large) car was still on the tracks, however.
There, despite the track setup (3 fairly widely spaced tracks), and the traffic light configuration, the situation was eeriely similar to this and to dozens of similar scenes I've read about since: poorly lit (even worse on a rainy night, which my Dad encountered), confusing if you are not familiar with the intersection, and thus needlessly hazardous.
The question repeats itself each time: How come this keeps happening, and why can't we properly address it, as other modern countries (Japan, many European countries) have?
There, despite the track setup (3 fairly widely spaced tracks), and the traffic light configuration, the situation was eeriely similar to this and to dozens of similar scenes I've read about since: poorly lit (even worse on a rainy night, which my Dad encountered), confusing if you are not familiar with the intersection, and thus needlessly hazardous.
The question repeats itself each time: How come this keeps happening, and why can't we properly address it, as other modern countries (Japan, many European countries) have?
6
Now that I've read the comments and news stories, I would like to add the following. (My son was in the third car of the crash, but escaped unharmed.) People who do not live in our area may not be aware of the following:
1. The roads are extremely dark once you leave towns.
2. The crossing gates descend only a few seconds after warning bells sound. It's not like the longer, "amber" signal on a traffic signal; there's a ringing sound, lights flash, and the gates come down;
3. The train passes through the intersection about a minute after the gate has descended.
This means that the driver had less than a minute to react to what must have been a terrifying situation. She'd been in a long line of cars moving through a dark area -- a cemetery. The guy behind her has posted that backed up to allow her to back off the tracks, suggesting that cars were traveling close together. She had probably begun to cross the tracks when the bell sounded and -- cars in front of her --could not complete the crossing before the gates fell.
She then made three mistakes: (1) she left the car instead of trying immediately to back up, (2) when time ran out, she didn't run; (3) she tried to complete the crossing. The train caught up with her.
I think that most of us at that moment would have been doing what she did; namely, trying to avoid what we knew would be a terrible accident outcome for those on the train. Confused, she made three fatal mistakes, and the tragedy occurred.
1. The roads are extremely dark once you leave towns.
2. The crossing gates descend only a few seconds after warning bells sound. It's not like the longer, "amber" signal on a traffic signal; there's a ringing sound, lights flash, and the gates come down;
3. The train passes through the intersection about a minute after the gate has descended.
This means that the driver had less than a minute to react to what must have been a terrifying situation. She'd been in a long line of cars moving through a dark area -- a cemetery. The guy behind her has posted that backed up to allow her to back off the tracks, suggesting that cars were traveling close together. She had probably begun to cross the tracks when the bell sounded and -- cars in front of her --could not complete the crossing before the gates fell.
She then made three mistakes: (1) she left the car instead of trying immediately to back up, (2) when time ran out, she didn't run; (3) she tried to complete the crossing. The train caught up with her.
I think that most of us at that moment would have been doing what she did; namely, trying to avoid what we knew would be a terrible accident outcome for those on the train. Confused, she made three fatal mistakes, and the tragedy occurred.
32
Thank you for this perceptive and compassionate comment. I'm glad your son is safe.
4
Sorry, but the world is not perfect, and never will be. Accidents of all kinds happen all the time, sometimes with tragic results. People do foolish and reckless things, make bad judgement calls, panic. Equipment fails. Nature throws a curveball. Sometimes it's just bad luck, something that could neither have been anticipated nor prevented. Most of the time, most of us never hear about them. But the media love a big disaster, and then everyone gets up in arms.
Should we be putting more money into upgrading infrastructure? Of course. But the idea that we are going to convert all grade rail crossings to overpasses or underpasses is a pipe dream. At best, we can hope for some marginal improvements.
Each fatality in this incident represents a mini-tragedy, and the idea that it could happen to me or someone close to me is dreadful. But in the greater scheme of things, this was a relatively small event. All we can do is feel sad for the innocent victims and the people in their lives, express our condolences, be grateful for every moment we can live in health and peace, and hope that at least some steps will be taken to lessen the chances that something like this will happen again.
Should we be putting more money into upgrading infrastructure? Of course. But the idea that we are going to convert all grade rail crossings to overpasses or underpasses is a pipe dream. At best, we can hope for some marginal improvements.
Each fatality in this incident represents a mini-tragedy, and the idea that it could happen to me or someone close to me is dreadful. But in the greater scheme of things, this was a relatively small event. All we can do is feel sad for the innocent victims and the people in their lives, express our condolences, be grateful for every moment we can live in health and peace, and hope that at least some steps will be taken to lessen the chances that something like this will happen again.
11
Very true... We will never eliminate all accidents... Not even everything becomes automated as people think. Why? Computers fail too.
5
I saw Cuomo on TV who seemed to be saying that securing these crossings was not a priority given other needs. I think that was a disgraceful thing to say at a moment like this. Given the problems at Metro North we should be looking at ways to make getting to work safer. Also, securing the platforms on the subway is long overdue as 10s of people die each year by falling onto the tracks or into trains. A guess a few lives a year are not worth much to these folks. Cost in payouts versus cost to make folks safe -- dollars vs dollars is all it is about.
4
You cannot 'make folks safe'.
You can make yourself safe by stopping at all railroad crossings if there is no space on the other side to cross.
You cannot make people do this. If you don't understand how to do this you shouldn't be driving.
This is exactly the same scenario where people run red lights at intersections because they are backed up and want to get through rather than wait for another light.
The only difference here is that there was a train coming.
You can make yourself safe by stopping at all railroad crossings if there is no space on the other side to cross.
You cannot make people do this. If you don't understand how to do this you shouldn't be driving.
This is exactly the same scenario where people run red lights at intersections because they are backed up and want to get through rather than wait for another light.
The only difference here is that there was a train coming.
14
It should be pointed out that the New Haven line has had no grade crossings at all for many, many years - and the handful of grade crossings that exist in the New London area (on the rail line to Boston) are all protected with devices that alert train crews to cars on the tracks. Shouldn't Metro North be obligated to provide equivalent service safety on all of their lines?
8
'she was somehow confused', 'found herself on the wrong side of the crossing bar as it went down', 'it was dark — maybe she didn’t know she was in front of the gate'
I cross train tracks daily on my way to and from work. at night the crossing is absolutely dark. There is no way I am not aware of the tracks. I know they are there, I know the risk of trying to stop in the middle. You cannot possibly ' not know you are on the tracks'. More like she knew they were there, but decided to risk it, hoping not to get stuck.
I cross train tracks daily on my way to and from work. at night the crossing is absolutely dark. There is no way I am not aware of the tracks. I know they are there, I know the risk of trying to stop in the middle. You cannot possibly ' not know you are on the tracks'. More like she knew they were there, but decided to risk it, hoping not to get stuck.
12
It is possible she was a stranger to the area... However I'm still perplexed as to how the car got "stuck"...
6
The car was not 'stuck' on the tracks, it was between the two gates with no way forward or back.
Unfortunately, the driver had no way forward when she drove between the gates in the first place, a scary place to be even without a train coming.
Unfortunately, the driver had no way forward when she drove between the gates in the first place, a scary place to be even without a train coming.
The train should be notified when the crossing gates hit an object. this would be a pretty easy change to make.
Also the train should have video of the crossings.
Can someone pass this on to NTSB?
Also the train should have video of the crossings.
Can someone pass this on to NTSB?
4
When the gate comes down and hits an object it is already too late for the train to stop.
8
Well if the gate comes down and hits the car but the train is 30 seconds a way, it would not be too late for the car. In this example, the woman had time to get out and check the car, apparently.
3
Look at the aerial photo of the crash site. There is a Railroad marking on the pavement on the north side of the tracks, but there is no such marking on the south side of the tracks, which is where the driver was located before she drove onto the tracks. We cannot see from this photo whether there was signage (there usually is), but this railroad crossing seems poorly marked (assuming that the photo is recent).
4
Actually, Gloria, I just got off looking at Google Maps in order to verify your contention. There were RR crossing markings on the road but they are about a quarter mile back: Painted markings on the road and two yellow signs on the side.
Add to this the signage at crossing itself.
It does look like a narrow road on a dark night, but there were plenty of markings available for someone who was paying attention.
Other things may have led to the tragedy but lack of signage wasn't one of them.
Add to this the signage at crossing itself.
It does look like a narrow road on a dark night, but there were plenty of markings available for someone who was paying attention.
Other things may have led to the tragedy but lack of signage wasn't one of them.
8
Just get rid of the cars.
It's always the same, a 'mistake' in judgement that occurs in milliseconds ... the bodies pile up. 35,000 this year and the same next year and the years afterwards ... until the cars are gotten rid of.
Besides the body-count there is the no-gain depletion of our resources ... and our purchasing power. We are literally being bankrupted by our conveniences. When do we say ... "enough"?
Just get rid of the cars. One way or the other they are going.
It's always the same, a 'mistake' in judgement that occurs in milliseconds ... the bodies pile up. 35,000 this year and the same next year and the years afterwards ... until the cars are gotten rid of.
Besides the body-count there is the no-gain depletion of our resources ... and our purchasing power. We are literally being bankrupted by our conveniences. When do we say ... "enough"?
Just get rid of the cars. One way or the other they are going.
9
I never cross an intersection or train tracks unless there is room for my entire car on the other side, period. This and many other tragedies never would have happened if everyone followed simple driving rules. What are they teaching in driving schools?
16
"What are they teaching in driving schools?"
This is a question I find myself asking about every 5 minutes when I'm on the road. Answer: Clearly, not enough.
This is a question I find myself asking about every 5 minutes when I'm on the road. Answer: Clearly, not enough.
7
Exactly Dan. Just a few days ago I sat in my car approaching a railway intersection watching other people stopped on the tracks waiting for a traffic light to turn green. I just shook my head and thought, these people are crazy.
10
They are teaching plenty. It seems to me that what we are lacking is enforcement of the regulations. Cops blithely let speeding cars fly by on the highways. "No turn on red" is an invitation to so many drivers, but police rarely trouble themselves to enforce the myriad regulations on the books. We can teach and teach till the cows come home, but if no one is enforcing rules, too many ethically-immature drivers will do whatever they think they can get away with, safety precautions be damned,
2
The very helpful NY Times graphic shows that this crossing is unusually unsafe -- no lights, the road crossing at less than a 90 degree angle, and no RR crossing box on the road on one side of the tracks. So the driver was crossing at unfamiliar point in heavy traffic in the dark, and wasn't sure where the tracks were (there is no embankment, there were trees blocking sight of the tracks until she was almost over the tracks, and she might not have even seen where the tracks were).
There shouldn't be unmarked train crossings like this, and if the state police are aware that they exist and that traffic is being routed over one, they should be there to direct traffic. Some basic public safety elements were missed and six people are dead as a result.
There shouldn't be unmarked train crossings like this, and if the state police are aware that they exist and that traffic is being routed over one, they should be there to direct traffic. Some basic public safety elements were missed and six people are dead as a result.
11
It's a fair bet that they will eliminate this crossing completely now.
From the aerial photo of the accident scene, it looks like there was no RXR pavement markings in the lane the driver approached from. Yet they are on the other side - Taconic Pkwy side.
2
Lots of grade crossings where I live, some with gates, some not. Not so much train traffic, so little in fact that I never gave a thought to being stopped on the tracks by a hesitating car in front of me until a sign was put up saying Do Not Stop On Tracks, and I thought about it.
Have I ever tried to rush a gate? Yes. Have I ever been caught between gates? No. Would I panic if it happened? Yes. Do people do illogical things when they panic? Yes. Do some people have no experience of trains at all? Yes.
It was a goal of FDR's New Deal to eliminate all the grade crossings in America. There are thousands and thousands of them. They have been recognized as a danger for a long, long time. We have fallen way behind the times on this, and lots of jobs could be provided (as FDR knew) by fixing them up. Bonus: Lots of lives could be saved.
Have I ever tried to rush a gate? Yes. Have I ever been caught between gates? No. Would I panic if it happened? Yes. Do people do illogical things when they panic? Yes. Do some people have no experience of trains at all? Yes.
It was a goal of FDR's New Deal to eliminate all the grade crossings in America. There are thousands and thousands of them. They have been recognized as a danger for a long, long time. We have fallen way behind the times on this, and lots of jobs could be provided (as FDR knew) by fixing them up. Bonus: Lots of lives could be saved.
14
Without passing judgement on what happened or why, there is something every one who drives a car should know.
You can drive through and snap off the crossing gate if you have to. Of course, it is better to never stop on the tracks, and it is better to never be caught by the crossing gate, but if it happens, drive through it and break it off - they are designed to allow this.
The train cannot stop in time and we have seen many times what happens with a train at speed collides with a 2000 kilogram object - it is devastation and people are killed.
Yes, you will damage your car if you drive through the crossing arm and snap it off. But you can get your car fixed, and you can prevent a tragedy. The life you save might be your own.
You can drive through and snap off the crossing gate if you have to. Of course, it is better to never stop on the tracks, and it is better to never be caught by the crossing gate, but if it happens, drive through it and break it off - they are designed to allow this.
The train cannot stop in time and we have seen many times what happens with a train at speed collides with a 2000 kilogram object - it is devastation and people are killed.
Yes, you will damage your car if you drive through the crossing arm and snap it off. But you can get your car fixed, and you can prevent a tragedy. The life you save might be your own.
44
What an awful accident! Many people just don't realize how difficult it is to stop a train at speed. She probably just froze and couldn't make any decisions. "Frantically waving" wouldn't have made any difference at all.
12
Perhaps the first car on all trains should be an empty car or a baggage car? In case of a collision, that would seem to be the most dangerous car to be in.
2
Engineer's life matters too, you know.
12
Why does a commuter train need a baggage car?
6
Based on the reporting, my guess as to what happened is shockingly quotidian - the driver of the SUV was following too closely behind the car in front of her, so when traffic stopped, she was "blocking the box," except in this case the box was a railroad crossing. And just like city intersections, there's a reason you wait for traffic to clear before you attempt crossing - so you don't get trapped in a spot you don't want to be.
Except in this case it cost 6 people their lives.
Except in this case it cost 6 people their lives.
20
Any investigation of this accident must necessarily include a review of the predecessor event -- an accident on the Taconic State Parkway, and the disposition and deployment of emergency personnel responding to the first accident. In retrospect, might it have been a better use of available resources to have deployed at least some of them along alternate traffic routes, to manage and expedite the diverted rush-hour traffic.
There is said to be a signal-controlled intersection a short distance ahead of the grade crossing where the accident occurred. Were officers deployed to this intersection to manually override the signal's normal sequence, which undoubtedly didn't accommodate the surge of traffic diverted from the Parkway. Maybe if there had been some attempt at traffic management along the alternate route, the poor woman in the SUV wouldn't have found herself stuck on the crossing in the crush of stop-and-go traffic. And everyone would have gotten home safely.
There is said to be a signal-controlled intersection a short distance ahead of the grade crossing where the accident occurred. Were officers deployed to this intersection to manually override the signal's normal sequence, which undoubtedly didn't accommodate the surge of traffic diverted from the Parkway. Maybe if there had been some attempt at traffic management along the alternate route, the poor woman in the SUV wouldn't have found herself stuck on the crossing in the crush of stop-and-go traffic. And everyone would have gotten home safely.
6
Yes. I have been frustrated many times in traffic jams when officers who could get out and ameliorate things by manually directing traffic the old fashioned way, instead sit in their vehicles observing as confused or impatient motorists try to cope with the unexpected circumstances willy-nilly.
5
God forbid if you are ever caught between crossing gates go through or go around the gates. We had a horrific accident several years ago in the Chicago area where an express train slammed into a school bus full of children that was partly on the tracks waiting for a stop light. (There was not enough room between the intersection and the tracks for the entire length of the bus.) Do whatever you have to because nine times out of ten the train will not be able to stop in time. I was on another express train that hit a car when the driver went around a lowered gate. The engineer pulled the emergency brakes before impact but we traveled nearly two long blocks before stopping.
4
If that's the same accident I recall, the bus driver thought s/he had cleared the track, because there appeared to be room between the track and the stoplight. Not an excuse - but more complicated than willingly crossing without sufficient clearance on the other side.
Metronorth conductors need support too. They are also deeply affected by this accident.
33
Yes, many such engineers or conductors are scarred for a long, long time.
10
Realistically speaking, it would probably be cost prohibitive to try to prevent every human from doing something stupid or irresponsible.
It was a Mercedes SUV and the woman driving it seemed more concerned about scratches on her car than the fact that she was in the middle of a railroad crossing with the gate down.
It was a Mercedes SUV and the woman driving it seemed more concerned about scratches on her car than the fact that she was in the middle of a railroad crossing with the gate down.
11
For heaven's sake, what does the make of the vehicle have to do with anything? And what extraordinary prescience allows you to know (unlike the rest of us) that the driver "seemed more concerned with scratches on her car" than being in a railroad crossing with the gate down?
The rush to judgment in situations like this is beyond belief.
Heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the dead and injured.
The rush to judgment in situations like this is beyond belief.
Heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the dead and injured.
Eyewitness accounts are that she got out to try to move the gate, not (as originally reported) that she was inspecting damage. Eyewitnesses also suggest it was more confusing than most comments here insist would be the case.
Just about one month ago I was on a Hudson Line train, first stop Tarrytown. The train barreled through the station without stopping, and ended up stopping about .25 miles up the track, off the platform. The train had to be backed up into the station to let passengers off the train. That day, I sent Metro North an email alerting them to what had happened. I got a nice auto generated notice assigning an incident number and a promise that someone would get back to me. Are you fellow readers and riders surprised to learn that no one has? This railroad is criminally mismanaged and operated. Nothing appears to have changed from the rider safety prospective. I understand that the drive of the Jeep is almost entirely the cause of the accident, getting stuck on the tracks for whatever unfortunate reason. However, I don't see any evidence that the railroad understands or has acted to identify and remedy all the various safety problems that threaten the very lives of passengers. The fact that the train i was on sped through the station without stopping suggests the same kind of inattention by the operator that resulted in the fatal Spuyten Dyvill derailment last year (excuse my spelling, please). I had to come to Manhattan today. I drove, as I will from now on. I will not put my life in Metro North hands again.
6
If the train you describe had rolled past the station without slowing down, it would have taken longer than 1/4 mile to stop, according to what I've read. Are you sure the scenario is as described? What possible relevance could it have to this?
6
Of course, with loaded freight cars, any stop is supposed to include backing up so that the ensuing restart only works the engine one car's weight at a time rather than starting the entire chain all at once. I otherwise know little of the daily routine there on commuter trains; do we assume these trains contain no freight at all? Of course, Western Ky. hasn't had passenger service for years.
Yes. It is as I described. Passengers knew he was about to miss the station and were yelling for conductor to stop. I am very familiar with the pattern in Tarrytown having ridden the line for almost 25 years.
For all those saying the crossing is bad, the infrastructure is old, whatever, that crossing has been there for a long time with no issues. It's not like a bridge collapsed - a woman in traffic got stuck on the tracks. She shouldn't be on the tracks unless there was a way out.
It's great you want upgraded infrastructure, but an upgraded infrastructure has little to no relationship to the accident in question.
It's great you want upgraded infrastructure, but an upgraded infrastructure has little to no relationship to the accident in question.
14
New York contributes about $2 to the federal government for every dollar we get. I say it's high time we kept more of that money here and spent in on infrastructure. Senators Shumer and Gillebrand - are you listening?
9
Thanks, Joe, for signing up for more of the federalist ideas the Founders hoped we would stick with. I think the states should be doing TONS more things than they are doing now, instead on running (ruining?) the entire country from D.C.
Anytime the activity and funding is local or state, oversight and results are going to improve and waste will go down. Let's start by keeping all the gas tax collected inside the state it was generated from instead of siphoning off enough to run bureaucracy in Washington, D.C.
Anytime the activity and funding is local or state, oversight and results are going to improve and waste will go down. Let's start by keeping all the gas tax collected inside the state it was generated from instead of siphoning off enough to run bureaucracy in Washington, D.C.
2
Joe, Steve, sorry to say but both are lousy ideas. We need to fix what is now broken: our infrastructure system. It WILL NOT be done just by the states. Dream on!
4
Yes, we are so overdue for getting our due, Joe. I am so sick of having to pay for nonsense in empty states out west where hardly anybody lives and their only "contribution" to society is to send two obstructionist senators to Washington.
5
If someone gets caught in the middle on the tracks when the gates go down, horrible to consider, does anyone know what you do? Plow your car ahead or behind you as hard as you can - would you break through the gates? My deepest sorrow to all the victims and their loved ones.
10
There is a level in the middle of Berryville, Va. Not too many years ago I saw the boom come down on the top of an SUV that had tried to beat the train. The lady driving got out of the car, looked at the boom on the shiny paint, and would not drive out from under the boom because of the inevitable damage to the paint. A slow-moving freight train clipped the front of the car and nudged it aside. No-one was hurt, and there was fairly minor damage to the car (and none to the train, I suppose). There are apparently people for whom the prime concern in the moment is damage to an expensive vehicle, and none for the consequences of that strange priority. I think that's what happened in Valhalla. No blame on Metro North at all.
7
That doesn't seem to be the case this time, inkydrudge, based on eyewitness accounts.
Believe it or not, these things are designed to allow people to escape. Drive through and the gates will break - they're designed to do that. Or drive around the gates - they're designed to have open space - that's why they don't go completely across the road. Best of all, assume that when the lights flash, there's going to be a train soon. And the reason the gates come down quickly when the lights start to flash is if there were a long gap, drivers would think they have time to drive through before the gates lower. Better that you think when the lights flash, you should stop.
I live in a mid-size city that has innumerable railroad crossing in the East End, a highly populated area. I have to cross the train tracks at least once a day and often multiple times. The tracks parallel a major thoroughfare through the East End, leading to malls etc. About once a year, a car gets hit by a train. All the crossings are well marked and have lights and barriers, but invariably, someone will try to run the barrier, or even drive around it. And when that happens, there is a wreck.
Do I like being stopped (sometimes multiple times a day) for a long freight train to pass on the tracks? No, I don't, but I've been doing it for 30 years and relocating the tracks would cost a fortune. So, we learn to live with it.
One can only "idiot proof" something so much without it become a major problem for everyone. There needs to be some degree of personal responsibility when choosing to drive an automobile.
Do I like being stopped (sometimes multiple times a day) for a long freight train to pass on the tracks? No, I don't, but I've been doing it for 30 years and relocating the tracks would cost a fortune. So, we learn to live with it.
One can only "idiot proof" something so much without it become a major problem for everyone. There needs to be some degree of personal responsibility when choosing to drive an automobile.
21
Julie
NYC 13 hours ago
There is a lot that can be done to protect from the mistakes humans can make--better barriers at crossing, roads that cross where the line of sight in both directions, rails that allow for quicker stops, and, of course, trains that go under or over roads, not through them. When we invest in better infrastructure, we protect against our own imperfections.
--------
@Julie: Did not we Americans just elect a Republican Congress, Republicans who are ideologically committed to shrinking the size of the federal government and slashing taxes, the budget, and jobs?
How are we going to invest in better infrastructure?
I guess we get (or don't get) what we vote and pay for.
NYC 13 hours ago
There is a lot that can be done to protect from the mistakes humans can make--better barriers at crossing, roads that cross where the line of sight in both directions, rails that allow for quicker stops, and, of course, trains that go under or over roads, not through them. When we invest in better infrastructure, we protect against our own imperfections.
--------
@Julie: Did not we Americans just elect a Republican Congress, Republicans who are ideologically committed to shrinking the size of the federal government and slashing taxes, the budget, and jobs?
How are we going to invest in better infrastructure?
I guess we get (or don't get) what we vote and pay for.
9
How much money would you like me to spend in taxes to ensure that people stop at train crossings when there is a warning bell before the gate come down? This is a tragedy for all concerned, but it appears to be squarely the fault of the driver of the car. How many billions should be spent to ensure drivers don't do ridiculous things?
14
Skeptic, why don't you address this question to the families of the six human beings killed in the first car?
4
Google maps shows the intersection much more clearly than the NY Times' little map. Please enter the internet age, NY Times.
There is no room for error at that intersection - it is tiny. If the driver was past the gate when the arm came down, she was already in grave danger. Apparently there was a traffic backup and she was inching along in the bumper to bumper traffic and then the arm came down with her on the wrong side of it. One should never enter a railroad crossing unless you have lots of room to make it to the other side immediately.
She should have backed out (she even had time to get out an inspect the damage the arm had caused to the back of her car) , even if that meant damaging her car and/or the crossing arm but people in life or death situations, people operate in their usual grooves and worry about their personal property. It's very hard for people to change gears instantly from "everyday life" to "mortal danger".
Metro-North is 100+ years old and it would cost billions if not trillions to eliminate every grade crossing (the smallest things seem to cost billions at the MTA). But, I'll bet that there are thing that could be done at the cost of "only" a few hundred million. Improve the crossing gates so that they are more formidable than the old fashioned striped wooden bars. Install sensors so that the engineer is warned (or the train automatically stopped) if there is a vehicle on the wrong side of the barrier.
There is no room for error at that intersection - it is tiny. If the driver was past the gate when the arm came down, she was already in grave danger. Apparently there was a traffic backup and she was inching along in the bumper to bumper traffic and then the arm came down with her on the wrong side of it. One should never enter a railroad crossing unless you have lots of room to make it to the other side immediately.
She should have backed out (she even had time to get out an inspect the damage the arm had caused to the back of her car) , even if that meant damaging her car and/or the crossing arm but people in life or death situations, people operate in their usual grooves and worry about their personal property. It's very hard for people to change gears instantly from "everyday life" to "mortal danger".
Metro-North is 100+ years old and it would cost billions if not trillions to eliminate every grade crossing (the smallest things seem to cost billions at the MTA). But, I'll bet that there are thing that could be done at the cost of "only" a few hundred million. Improve the crossing gates so that they are more formidable than the old fashioned striped wooden bars. Install sensors so that the engineer is warned (or the train automatically stopped) if there is a vehicle on the wrong side of the barrier.
9
One day, in broad daylight, in downtown Seattle, I found myself and my car in a confusing scenario with a train coming. I can't remember now but I think I had started to cross the tracks (because there was no signal, flashing light or guard rail down, and no train in sight) - but then suddenly there was. In this case, any warning system lagged behind the guard rail lowering. I was able to back up and get off the tracks, but there was a split second when I had to decide whether to drive forward, backward, or if I could do either. I know this isn't exactly what the poor woman seemed to be experiencing last night, but my point is you can't assume there will be warnings as you approach train tracks.
10
I'd guess you have to Do Something. Don't get out of your car - drive forward or backward.
How fragile life is. In the twinkling of an eye, for some very unfortunate individuals, everything changed and six met death. We mourn for them, while the rest of us should be thankful that we are alive for another day. Perhaps because we are all in this life together and because we are all subject to death, we might treat each other with kindness and respect. And our politicians might use their power for the common good, not their own particular agendas. It may be too much to ask, but we might honor the dead by trying a little harder.
10
Certainly the technology to prevent this sort of accident from happening must be available, or easily designed. The overriding factor is cost. Unfortunately, in a capitalist society reducing cost is paramount in almost every aspect of life.
2
My heart breaks for all those affected by this tragedy.
Surely something can be done to reconfigure the front of a train to prevent this from happening again. Possibly some sort of plow like device that immediately pushes a car stuck on the tracks off of the road...
Again.. this is terrible...
Surely something can be done to reconfigure the front of a train to prevent this from happening again. Possibly some sort of plow like device that immediately pushes a car stuck on the tracks off of the road...
Again.. this is terrible...
It's not that complicated with modern technology to have camera-based systems that would detect that a vehicle is on or near the tracks after the gate goes down, and signal the train to stop. But how likely is it that our municipal railways are going to spend money intelligently on new, affordable technology when there are boondoggles to satisfy?
1
Can this newfangled modern technology defy the laws of physics as well, so that a train can stop on a dime? Or should the crossing gates come down minutes in advance of the train approaching?
11
Wait a minute…railway crossings have flashing lights and gates to warn drivers that a train is coming and to prevent them from entering the train's path. I know it may seem unsympathetic to point to the SUV driver, and some have said she might have been con used, not seen the gate, etcs. But it seems likely that she entered the crossing to try to get through before the train came, so she wouldn't have to wait. A tragic, flawed logic. I don't think we can discount that the driver might have some responsibility for what happened. Might have tried to beat the odds, might have thought that she had more time or more room than she did to make it through.
8
But we don't know that, farhorizons. You are speculating, as are so many people. There are many details we haven't yet heard and witnesses that may have more to tell.
1
So many unanswered questions about the S.U.V. and its driver.
Did the S.U.V. completely stall? What was the make and model? What year? Was the driver young? Old? Calling 911 at the time of impact? Screaming for her life?
There's just so much we don't know about this situation to comment on and on about infrastructure and the driver's own decision making skills.
Did the S.U.V. completely stall? What was the make and model? What year? Was the driver young? Old? Calling 911 at the time of impact? Screaming for her life?
There's just so much we don't know about this situation to comment on and on about infrastructure and the driver's own decision making skills.
2
Close to where I grew up, there are double sets of train tracks, two heading south, two north, with short (about two car lengths) median road between them. At the time, there was only one gate per set of tracks, on the outside. The entire family was in the car when the gate went up for a northbound train and even at a crawl, my father had to brake, HARD, in the median to avoid a southbound train on the next set of tracks. This has since been corrected with two sets of gates on each set of tracks... but you will not find me fooling with a train crossing. Ever.
3
If it were suicide, why did driver of SUV get out to check the back of her car?
2
New York drivers cross crosswalks, entering intersections that they can't clear in time. California is different. If you block the box, expect to be screamed at and to have a pedestrian pound on your hood Take heed of the rules because on the wrong day at the wrong time, whether you are in New York or California may be all that matters.
1
In New York the pedestrian pounding on the hood of the car in the box would be shot.
That's nonsense, if you've ever been to New York, it wasn't in the last 20 years. "No Place in Particular"? What's the matter? Afraid someone might bang on your hood?
2
Have you ever actually been here?
2
We drive on Long Island a lot, and there are multiple level crossings (where the tracks cross roads). We were taught as little kids NEVER to try to beat a train at the level crossings, because the train will always win. We were also taught that if our car got stuck on the tracks, to get out and away, call 911, and if a train is coming, run towards it (on the road or along the tracks) to avoid being hit by the debris. Lastly - we have learned NOT to trust that the lights will flash and that the yardarm will come down when a train is approaching, don't put your life in the hands of a microchip or switch that might fail. ALWAYS stop and check for trains, both ways if there are 2 tracks. My father was almost killed one night when driving in the dark, and the signals never flashed, the arm never came down - but a train went through in the dark. He said that his guardian angel got him to stop and look - so there's a lesson there. Always be careful at level crossings, take responsibility for your own safety, always check for trains and NEVER try to beat a train across.
29
When there are leaves on the tracks that can block the electric circuit and prevent the gates and lights from functioning.
1
I took my niece to a midday train in Wassaic (end of the Harlem line) on Monday, and we were informed that it was delayed because of a mechanical issue and that another train would be brought out of the yard. But instead, MTA chose to get mechanics to try to fix the issue on the spot. According to overheard conversation between the engineer and mechanics, the problem had to do with the brakes, and the engineer wanted a mechanic on board to Southeast in case of further trouble. At the time there was heavy snow at the north end of the line, and freezing rain at the south end. Metro North could not tell the passengers whether a train would be available at Southeast to make their connection to Grand Central, or if bus service would be substituted instead, as happens quite frequently. Passengers were told that this decision would be made once the train was en route. Many, including my niece, chose not to chance (a) a train with acknowledged brake trouble, especially in bad weather conditions; and (b) the possibility of having to switch to bus service halfway down the line on icy/snowy roads. That incident makes me wonder if it was the same engine that was involved in this crash one day later. Although it seems clear that driver error/confusion played a role, it cannot be denied that MTA has a poor record of decision-making when it comes to safety, and I would certainly not jump to place all the fault with the driver of the SUV.
2
I rode an evening train back to NYC from Brewster on Monday and there were issues most of the way down with our train car. I was sitting in the front car near the front doors (like I never will again) and could see bright flashes out my window with an accompanying POP sound, after which the train would slow to a crawl. Since I was at the front I could hear the engineer on the radio to headquarters and also talking to our conductor about the lack of voltage getting to the motors. We finally stalled out completely just before the tunnel into Grand Central. After a short while they were able to back up to the 125th station where we disembarked and waited for another southbound train. Before we finally broke down we were already running something like 40 minutes late to its halting and stalling performance.
I feel like the driver will ultimately be to blame in tho particular instance, but I, too< wonder if Metro North knowingly operates with broken equipment. It didn't seem like a surprise to the engineer when we broke down because he said loudly into the radio something like "So close! We almost made it. I was hoping we'd get down there"
I feel like the driver will ultimately be to blame in tho particular instance, but I, too< wonder if Metro North knowingly operates with broken equipment. It didn't seem like a surprise to the engineer when we broke down because he said loudly into the radio something like "So close! We almost made it. I was hoping we'd get down there"
3
Looking for a clue as to the cause? Just observe a busy RR crossing and watch the traffic as the signals go off and the traffic continues to cross. Better yet, speak to the engineers who run these trains. They can talk for hours about the dumb things drivers do. Or Google Search Train Crossing Accidents Videos. The problem is simply the fact that to many people are not paying attention to their driving, whether it be traffic lights, or weather conditions, or RR crossings. And as an aside, when my wife and I first started visiting friends in Florida the first thing they said to us (about driving) was "Never assume you have the right of way at a green light, always slow down and look both ways". They were right.
15
The American transportation grid, the best a third world nation can buy. Why we neglect out country and spend billions around the world is beyond me. What do you expect from 80 year old technology? How many more of these “accidents” and bridge collapses have to happen before we upgrade our infrastructure? While Europe and Asia has bullet trains and expansive airports we have Metro North and LaGuardia. The best and the brightest, not here and not by a long shot.
19
Relying solely on technology is the culprit here. Viva la old days when a real human being was put in charge watching such crossings along with the usual controls.
4
There were no such "old days". In the real old days many crossings weren't marked at all. You were expected to stop . . . look . . . and listen.
3
It sounds like the driver of the SUV was confronted with a situation for which she had no training, and for which she was ill-prepared to devise a successful resolution "on the fly." Many commenters have posthumously offered the sage advice: "Don't stop on the tracks," which is common sense. But having gotten stuck on the tracks, for whatever reason, what to do, what to do?
Perhaps it's time to require drivers to get regular refresher training. Every other licensed profession now seems to require some amount of regular or annual continuing education. Shouldn't we require the same for drivers? Such refresher training should include realistic scenarios such as this one: how to react should you, inadvertently or otherwise, find yourself in front of an on-rushing train, when every second counts. Of course, this particular situation is only one of many adverse situations that occasionally present themselves, in what would otherwise be a boring, monotonous daily commute. Previously-trained and well-prepared is much better than un-trained and ill-prepared.
Perhaps it's time to require drivers to get regular refresher training. Every other licensed profession now seems to require some amount of regular or annual continuing education. Shouldn't we require the same for drivers? Such refresher training should include realistic scenarios such as this one: how to react should you, inadvertently or otherwise, find yourself in front of an on-rushing train, when every second counts. Of course, this particular situation is only one of many adverse situations that occasionally present themselves, in what would otherwise be a boring, monotonous daily commute. Previously-trained and well-prepared is much better than un-trained and ill-prepared.
2
Training? Isn't it common sense--as well as the law--not to try to beat a train through the crossing?
9
Eyewitness account says she wasn't trying to beat the train - and locals say that the gate descends almost simultaneously with the signals starting. She easily could have been starting across the track at an appropriate time and become disorientated when the gate hit her car.
I see in several of the comments that a cow catcher would've reduced the severity of this accident, but I don't know if that's the case. Cow catchers were usually on enormous steam locomotives that I would think weigh more than modern passenger cars (though I'm not sure). The older trains had less ground clearance in the front and the engineer sat at the rear end of the engine, allowing for the cow to roll up on to the front of the train before being pushed to the side. In addition, there were no 3rd rails installed on the predominantly rural lines where trains were outfitted as such, so any object would simply be shoved to the side.
If this train were outfitted with a cow catcher it's possible that the SUV would've been rolled up onto the front of the lead car, raising the overall center of gravity, and cause a full-scale derailment. It's just unfortunate that this driver was foolish enough to act so hopelessly once she realized where she was. If records show she was talking on her phone or texting leading up to the crash the fault and guilt of all loss of life is 100% hers. If the gates somehow didn't function properly (which it sounds like they worked fine according to the driver behind her) then it's the nail in the coffin of any reputation Metro North retains.
Either way it's a damn shame. I rode this very line the night before and our train broke down before the Grand Central tunnel. We had to back up to 125 and wait for another train.
If this train were outfitted with a cow catcher it's possible that the SUV would've been rolled up onto the front of the lead car, raising the overall center of gravity, and cause a full-scale derailment. It's just unfortunate that this driver was foolish enough to act so hopelessly once she realized where she was. If records show she was talking on her phone or texting leading up to the crash the fault and guilt of all loss of life is 100% hers. If the gates somehow didn't function properly (which it sounds like they worked fine according to the driver behind her) then it's the nail in the coffin of any reputation Metro North retains.
Either way it's a damn shame. I rode this very line the night before and our train broke down before the Grand Central tunnel. We had to back up to 125 and wait for another train.
5
Yes, it was the driver's fault. At the same time it should be difficult or impossible to dislodge the third rail so that it turns into an electrified spear.
10
I often drive my children to high school in heavy traffic over a similar (and nearby) road crossing the Metro North tracks - in our case adjacent to the Saw Mill Parkway rather than the Taconic. I can not tell you how frequently I see teenaged drivers, and sometime their parents, start to cross the tracks before traffic has moved enough for there to be room for their vehicle on the other side of the tracks. Sometimes it's because someone behind them has honked for them to go; sometimes it's just impatience. It breaks my heart to think that a similar situation led to the tragedy last night.
14
All morning, and for how long it will continue, this is being blamed on the MTA, like it is a failed institution or something, sinking like a rock. This was a terrible tragedy. We have no idea what was going through the woman's mind, but it should be obvious to all, that this is not the kind of accident that happens every day, or ever, until today. Why do we find it necessary to run down our institutions, when the facts simply do not support it. The media is largely at fault here. Listening this morning, you would have thought that the MTA hit the woman on purpose.
12
Wouldn't one think the timing of the crossing gates would be such that they go down long enough before the train is due so that any vehicle having passed through the gate could finish crossing before the train hits? I can't imagine why all level crossings are not timed this way.
2
The ones on Long Island do - there is a couple of minutes between when the lights start flashing and when the cross bar comes down. The normal and safe thing to do is to stop before the crossing once the lights start flashing - or if you are on the tracks, proceed to move off of them. The problem lies with drivers who think that when approaching the flashing lights, it's time to speed up and move completely across the tracks - never a good move. The other problem lies with drivers who have dangers inside the vehicle - either music too loud (they don't hear the alarms that go with the lights), or are using their phones (they are distracted) - or the drivers themselves think they are entitled to drive across the tracks with the lights flashing - again, never a good idea. I have also seen drivers drive around the bars that come down, completely irresponsible. It's not about the timing of the warning, its about drivers who either disregard the warning, or never hear or see it due to their preoccupations inside the car.
4
What is with the comments about our "crumbling infrastructure"? This appears to be (at the moment) a clear cut case of a driver completely ignoring not only what has been mentioned clearly worded signs at the crossing, but one of the oldest rules of the road: do not stop on railroad tracks. NJ Transit has a crossing on it's Bergen County line in Saddle Brook at Midland Avenue. For years drivers have ignored the signals, gates and warnings. NJT has painted huge grids in the road and posted enormous signs warning to not stop on the tracks. And yet drivers still completely ignore them, stop on the tracks and get creamed by a train unable to stop. Not every crossing can be re-engineered as an over or underpass. You can't engineer an idiot proof rail crossing. What transpired yesterday appears to have nothing with how the railroad is run or how the crossing is designed. A driver violated one of the oldest rules of the road and caused the death of 5 other people. And before I'm chided for being harsh - take stock of bad the average driver has become. How many times have you readers witnessed blindingly stupid behavior by drivers? Each careless act puts us *all* at risk. The driver last night made lousy decisions that others paid the price for.
36
Bravo to you, Wig. This death is tragic but I fear that the driver is responsible, and is to blame for the consequent deaths and damage. We are an "It's all about me" culture, an impatient culture, and no one wants to wait for anything. Why should I wait for a train to pass if I can make it across the tracks? Sympathies to the family of the driver, but I'm afraid there is no one to blame but her for this tragic event.
10
I just finished reading the Financial Crisis Inquiry Report, the final report of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission which was established to determine the causes of the financial crisis and recession of 2008-2009. The report goes into great detail to document the greed, avarice, stupidity, willful blindness, corruption, and lack of care of real estate agents, builders, mortgage lenders, investment bankers, commercial bankers, ratings agencies, and government officials who all became rich while millions of people lost their homes and phony investments bankrupted investors in the U.S. and around the world.
Craven politicians and officials at the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Bank, and other government finance organizations established programs to channel hundreds of billions of loans and grants to failing banks to protect their profits, as bank executives routinely took home eight and nine-figure compensation packages.
Meanwhile, our nation's highways, bridges, railroads, and waterways are crumbling, healthcare costs are soaring, resources for education are dwindling, more resources are being devoted to senseless wars in the Middle East.
Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?
Craven politicians and officials at the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Bank, and other government finance organizations established programs to channel hundreds of billions of loans and grants to failing banks to protect their profits, as bank executives routinely took home eight and nine-figure compensation packages.
Meanwhile, our nation's highways, bridges, railroads, and waterways are crumbling, healthcare costs are soaring, resources for education are dwindling, more resources are being devoted to senseless wars in the Middle East.
Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?
18
I do see something wrong with this picture! You skewing a thoughtless drivers horrible accident for political reasons.
4
Clearly there has to be an upgraded computer GPS system of better technology so that Metro North can see any and all obstructions for at least a radius of 20-30 miles ahead
1
Is this supposed to be a serious suggestion? By the time the driver had her car stuck on the tracks, the train was mere seconds away.
7
Treasure each day we are given. You never know when the dominoes of life will fall in the wrong direction for you or you loved ones. Wishing peaceful hearts to those who have lost a loved one in this preventable tragedy, and speedy healing to the injured.
5
In NYC, Mayor Guiliani trained motorists in congested areas to "never block the box".
This story is a horrific example of what can happen to those who ignore that box, which in this case was an active railroad track.
This story is a horrific example of what can happen to those who ignore that box, which in this case was an active railroad track.
11
Tragic. Many innocent lives lost, cherished family members dead or injured. I'm reminded that rail crossings with lights, bells and gates have a crucial time delay from the sound of the bells to when the gate actually begins to descend. It's this time delay that gives drivers a chance to come to a stop without entering the tracks or, if already on the tracks, a chance to get off the tracks before the gate on the other side descends. Let's not reach conclusions yet about this driver. But may this event cause us to review in our minds how to safely negotiate rail crossings.
4
There simply is no excuse for being hit by a train. Safety is no accident. I'll be the scold here and point out that we live in a country where most drivers have no clue as to what knowing how to drive even means. It amazes me that there are not many more accidents. And now as we approach driverless cars we also seal our fate as we produce the first generations lacking any appreciable level of practical life skills. And the few people who will be looking after car repair, building, and such will operate by mindlessly tinker toying together part B to part A.
15
There's no excuse, but there are many possible explanations, including (as reported by local residents) that there is almost no delay between the signals starting and the gate lowering.
1
It's unfortunate what happened for all involved. Could the fire have been caused by the 3rd rail entering the compartment?
I take Metro North from Fairfield CT to NYC during the week and the service is spotty at best.
One would think it's the first time Metro North is experiencing cold weather based on the numerous delays when its' cold or has snowed. The trains in Russia which are older than the MTA's run more efficiently in worst weather. There may be a crate of chickens in the overhead but at least the trains run on time.
When they do let you know the trains are running late, you find out while you are on the platform, in the cold at the time train should have arrived.
If there was competition, I guarantee you the service would improve.
I take Metro North from Fairfield CT to NYC during the week and the service is spotty at best.
One would think it's the first time Metro North is experiencing cold weather based on the numerous delays when its' cold or has snowed. The trains in Russia which are older than the MTA's run more efficiently in worst weather. There may be a crate of chickens in the overhead but at least the trains run on time.
When they do let you know the trains are running late, you find out while you are on the platform, in the cold at the time train should have arrived.
If there was competition, I guarantee you the service would improve.
2
Maurelius, I think the petrol/gasoline tank is what caused the fire, probably from the impact of the train, but, I concede, also possibly from arcing from the 3rd rail.
Looking at the photographs and reading the comments from survivors who were in the first coach, it seems probably the fire started outside the train before spreading inside.
However, let us see what the enquiry uncovers.
Looking at the photographs and reading the comments from survivors who were in the first coach, it seems probably the fire started outside the train before spreading inside.
However, let us see what the enquiry uncovers.
I've lived in this area my entire life and I've been driving for over 40 years. I'm familiar with the intersection. When I first started driving, the Taconic was lightly traveled and ended at the Hawthrone circle. Valhalla was a sleepy little town. Grade-level rail crossings were acceptable. This is no longer the case. With the amount of commuter traffic in this area, this was an accident waiting to happen. The solution is simple. The MTA needs to get rid of grade-level rail crossings.
7
Absolutely! Grade crossings are a 19th-century anachronism, especially on high-speed rail lines. They might even be a leading cause of delay and irregularity in rail service. Every grade crossing is an accident waiting to happen. Efficiency and effectiveness in the 21st century demand that they be eliminated, as quickly as possible. The program to do so might be expensive and cumbersome, but the economy can well bear the burden.
Governor Cuomo, make it be so!
Governor Cuomo, make it be so!
horrible accident to be sure but really it's not about infrastructure: given the needs we have to repair or upgrade infrastructure already, preventing something that happens once in 7 decades probably wouldn't rank high on the list. She may have simply thought she had enough room to clear, or that there would soon be room and got fooled by movement in front of her. The simplest thing to do would be to outfit each crossing of this kind with a traffic camera and make the fine for stopping on those tracks so high no one will do it. Perhaps the video can also warn the train that there is a vehicle on the tracks. I do feel for the woman, though.
7
Why do most these comments try to assign some blame? Its a tragedy. What can really be said?
4
Why can't head cars on the Metro North trains be equipped with "cow catchers" (more appropriately termed "car catchers") that would shove cars, or other obstructions, out of the way?
2
Because it's not a locomotive on the front of these trains, and also how would they justify the enormous cost? The driver made a terrible mistake that was also illegal, and now Metro North has to remake their entire train system? I'm sure people will also love to see their ticket prices shoot through the roof because of this driver's error.
6
Grade crossings are dangerous and have been eliminated in many European countries. You can always blame the driver or somebody else, but the fact is, such accidents will continue to happen as long as we don't upgrade these crossings. An underpass or overpass is the most common solution.
5
Why do we not have cattle guards on the front of our trains? This seems like such a simple precaution. A few years ago I was in the first car of the Amtrak Coastliner when we struck a car on the tracks. I felt the jolt but it wasn't much more than hitting a speed bump. A few minutes later the conductor came by and told us we were lucky-- we had a cattle guard and it crushed & pushed the car off the tracks. Without it we would have derailed. Three hours later we were underway with zero injuries. Turns out the driver had stopped on the tracks to commit suicide, then changed his/her mind and ran off.
41
Perhaps there is something that can be done, but Amtrak also has a locomotive on the front that can be equipped with these accessories. These electrified commuter trains are not much different than the subway in that they are just several attached cars with a driver compartment on the front.
3
I was brakeman on the AT&SF in California, Arizona and New Mexico. Level crossings at grade are everywhere along hundreds of miles of track in those states. Cattle guards are intended to shove animals off the rails so that the engine or its following cars don't derail. The animals are done, of course. But cattle guards wouldn't have helped in this instance and wouldn't as a rule be needed at all since herds of cattle or sheep don't cross MetroNorth lines. Out west it's the rancher's responsibility to keep animals off the rails.
2
Possibly (probably?)she was trapped on the tracks when the vehicle ahead of her couldn't move forward before the gates came down. It's happened before at heavily used crossings.
2
Why are the fronts of modern day trains flat? The old trains used to have that angled scoop in front. Shouldn't we be going back to something like that which can shovel a car or other objects away from the train during collisions?
3
I think we need to bring back the Works Progress Administration to repair our failing infrastructure all over this country.
Not only would such a grand project employ millions of men — restoring their dignity and health — it would rebuild the economy that made this country great the first time.
Roads, bridges, locks, dams, railroads, pipelines ... let's build it all! Speaking as a farmer in the Midwest, we need better roads and barge facilities to get our grain to market. (Currently our trucks wait in long lines and our grain is piled on the ground.) In the East, it seems you guys need safer railroad crossings to get people to work. The Keystone Pipeline would boost our energy independence from those Mideast thugs.
The money could be found in our defense budget.
A teflon economy with full employment is the best defense, anyway, since it allows us to afford a robust military.
It will take a lack of corruption on the part of our industries and politicians and a lack of greediness and laziness on the part of our workers to make it all work. But let's do it!
Not only would such a grand project employ millions of men — restoring their dignity and health — it would rebuild the economy that made this country great the first time.
Roads, bridges, locks, dams, railroads, pipelines ... let's build it all! Speaking as a farmer in the Midwest, we need better roads and barge facilities to get our grain to market. (Currently our trucks wait in long lines and our grain is piled on the ground.) In the East, it seems you guys need safer railroad crossings to get people to work. The Keystone Pipeline would boost our energy independence from those Mideast thugs.
The money could be found in our defense budget.
A teflon economy with full employment is the best defense, anyway, since it allows us to afford a robust military.
It will take a lack of corruption on the part of our industries and politicians and a lack of greediness and laziness on the part of our workers to make it all work. But let's do it!
7
There are plenty of non-greedy, hard working people out there. The problem lies in the lack of political will because of the corruption posed by unlimited corporate donations to politicians. All the GOP congress wants to do is repeal Obamacare - which it just voted to do for the, what, 56th time? The country is going to hell in a hand basket due to these doctrinaire right wing lunatics.
2
I would hope one of the first questions police or accident investigators ask survivors or witnesses: Which handheld or embedded dashboard entertainment device was the driver playing with? That the latter are allowed is appalling.
Drivers Ed 101: Never block an intersection, and by extension, any railroad crossing. How can this be confusing?
For the 5 souls on the train: RIP
Drivers Ed 101: Never block an intersection, and by extension, any railroad crossing. How can this be confusing?
For the 5 souls on the train: RIP
10
Also RIP for the driver and her family also.
3
Accidents like this don't happen in other first world countries (amongst which we - off course - are the most exceptional) because they actually believe in paying for infrastructure. We prefer accidents like these to paying extra pennies in gas or stock exchange transactions. The only surprise is that accidents like this don't happen more often
6
I would point you toward the Ottawa bus-train crash of 2013 (Canada), the Kerang train accident of 2007 (Australia), and the Ufton-Nervet rail crash of 2004 (England) as examples of accidents like this happening in other first world countries.
2
The MTA is governed by a 17-member Board. Members are nominated by the Governor. What could go wrong?
4
Something should go off in your head whenever you approach a RR crossing, lights and crossing bars or not (they can malfunction). There should always be plenty of room on the other side, and you should be extremely vigilant. This is a sad tragedy that should remind us all to pay attention while driving. If you want to put your life in danger, that is your choice, but every moment you are behind the wheel you are potentially putting others' lives in danger.
9
Just did a Google street view of the RR crossing.
While there are white limit lines near the track, the crossing barriers (the arms that go down) are clearly too close to the tracks. Barely room for a car length if it was stuck on the wrong side when the arm came down. This is a design flaw for sure.
There should be room to be trapped forward of the arm but at least ten feet from the track if you're in that no man's land.
There's no such clearance here.
Instead, I bet this woman sensed how her front end was probably on the track or at least perilously close and with no way to back up through the arm (without breaking it) she instinctively went in her only unimpeded direction - forward - her entire vehicle now on the track.
Do the Google view. It's actually Lakeview Ave, Valhalla.
What an unsafe looking crossing!
More like something you'd see in rural, way out, Alabama.
The area forward of crossing arms should allow for plenty of space from the actual track. Not so here!
While there are white limit lines near the track, the crossing barriers (the arms that go down) are clearly too close to the tracks. Barely room for a car length if it was stuck on the wrong side when the arm came down. This is a design flaw for sure.
There should be room to be trapped forward of the arm but at least ten feet from the track if you're in that no man's land.
There's no such clearance here.
Instead, I bet this woman sensed how her front end was probably on the track or at least perilously close and with no way to back up through the arm (without breaking it) she instinctively went in her only unimpeded direction - forward - her entire vehicle now on the track.
Do the Google view. It's actually Lakeview Ave, Valhalla.
What an unsafe looking crossing!
More like something you'd see in rural, way out, Alabama.
The area forward of crossing arms should allow for plenty of space from the actual track. Not so here!
11
You are correct in your assessment of the space and situation; however, it appears that the accident took place by Commerce Street, not Lakeview. That's one intersection north of Lakeview. As a lifelong resident of that area, I have driven in and out of that entrance/exit hundreds of times. Again, you are correct in your observation that it is not as safe as it could be. I have often been very nervous crossing the tracks at that point, and I look both ways even when there are no lights flashing.
2
No, It's the crossing that is listed in the news. Commerce street crosses the tracks and the Taconic. It's real.
1
The driver behind the SUV said he backed up to give the driver room to do the same. Why didn't she? Was she on her phone, texting at all, etc.??
1
This was a Jeep touted as one of the best off-road vehicles. It doesn't bode well that it got trapped, which I highly doubt. Has anyone considered suicide by the driver?
4
The Times says the driver got out of the vehicle and tried to wave at the train to stop.
1
It was a Mercedes, not a Jeep.
All the facts are not yet known however (which may or may not be the case) one should never advance in a car unless the space is clear ahead and one should ignore honking motorists behind us unless proceeding is safe. A combination of very unfortunate events evidently occurred. The NTSB will clarify all this but the report will be too late for those in this accident and not likely have the effect on us all if a more expeditious process in assessing accidents was routine. No rush, just a little faster.
6
My prayers are out to everybody affected by the crash. For those who do not understand the woman's actions: some people think well under pressure; others panic. I would like to think that I would have acted differently, but if I were swept out by the rip tide of action, I would most probably swim in the wrong direction.
31
Crumbling infrastructure? Where are the 87% people who supported WMD-hunting in 2003? Where are the people who proposed higher defense budget? Yes we are the richest on this planet, but we can't have everything. Simple?
10
Very simple. We can have unlimited discretionary warfare to benefit the profiteers, or nothing.
1
We will never be able to call ourselves civilized as long as we allow our transportation systems to kill us. The train, its rail system, the gates, flashing lights, poor lighting, poor warning signs/systems, human error, were all to blame. The woman who became stuck on the track should not have found herself as perplexed as described. She made a mistake and yet had the time to be outside of her vehicle examining for damage (or what ever). Something just does not click on that. Do we include a fogged brain high on alcohol/drugs? What a shame -- how many powers at be actually care about any of this?
3
Are there no backup safety provisions in our transportations systems? Six people should not have to die because one person used bad judgment or was impaired in some way. If not we cannot anticipate or plan for such an event, we must be really dumb.
Why do you ascribe any blame at all to the rail system, and then list the railroad's flashing lights, signals etc. which are meant to prevent such a catastrophe? There is only so much that can be done when you have people who are in such a rush or are too selfish to follow the most obvious common-sense rules of driving. How would you like to have been the train's conductor and come upon a car sitting in the middle of the tracks?
This has less to do with "powers that be not caring about any of this" and everything to do with personal responsibility.
This has less to do with "powers that be not caring about any of this" and everything to do with personal responsibility.
5
[[It appeared that the woman was outside her car frantically waving at the train to stop at the time of crash.]]
Yeah. Don't do that.
Yeah. Don't do that.
28
The Taconic, Saw Mill, Hutch, Sprain and Bronx River Parkways were never designed to handle so much traffic.
21
True - but that has nothing to do with someone driving to and "getting stuck" on train tracks. I would like to know how she got stuck... People cross there every day.
2
I hate to say it but we give driver's licenses to almost anyone. I am amazed and appalled every day on the road as I witness people with little to no driving skills and awful situational awareness. Forget the kids and suburban moms who are texting while they are drive or distracted by being on their phones, regardless of whether they are hands free or not. I am talking about people who's driving skills are so band that they create a real hazard for the rest of us. Of course this is tragic but if you don't realize that your vehicle is about to get stuck on a train track and wind up in that position you SHOULD NOT BE BEHIND THE WHEEL. It's horrible that this woman died but she also killed 5 other people.
48
I agree DS from CT. You see it everyday on the Taconic State Parkway. Cars going 70, 80 90 mph on a road which has a speed limit of 55. People who drive in the passing lane from one destination to another and trying to play "cop" by doing the speed limit, while others tailgate everybody regardless of how much traffic is on the road. Others darting in and out and not using their blinkers. Little regard for other drivers is more "the rule" that the exception as long as they are leading the pact on the way to NYC. Very dangerous. It does not surprise me that they may have been accident on one of those parkways that had people trying to drive around it. When are people going to wake up?!?!?!?
3
I've come the conclusion that their should be ongoing, mandatory and progressive skills training for licensed drivers.
4
What we need is enforcement of the rules we already have, and that most people have been exposed to. But of course we Americans are taught to believe that we are "exceptional," and don't need to follow rules, that's for the poor chumps who aren't as entitled. Drive down any highway and you'll see people tailgating at excessive speeds. This driver too seemed to be following too closely, if she couldn't clear the tracks.
2
On average, almost 100 people a day are killed on the roads in America. Safer infrastructure to reduce road fatalities is always a good idea but the real problem is poor driving, as seems to be the case here. A small number of bad, dangerous, and/or drug and drink impaired drivers create a large proportion of the problem. They need to be much more rigorously re-educated--or removed from the roads.
14
I see too many situations where training is abundant and enforcement is non-existent. If rules were truly enforced, behavior would change.
1
They need to stop using their phones in the car and focus on the machine they are operating.
3
[[Safer infrastructure to reduce road fatalities is always a good idea but the real problem is poor driving, as seems to be the case here. A small number of bad, dangerous, and/or drug and drink impaired drivers create a large proportion of the problem.]]
In my experience, people have gotten meaner and pettier behind the wheel. Not letting people merge, tailgating, using high beams to express displeasure...to say nothing of the rampant texting and cell phone use. May latest pet peeve is people trying to park their gigantic SUVs while talking on the phone. So it's one hand cranking the steering wheel and paying no attention to anything happening around the car.
In my experience, people have gotten meaner and pettier behind the wheel. Not letting people merge, tailgating, using high beams to express displeasure...to say nothing of the rampant texting and cell phone use. May latest pet peeve is people trying to park their gigantic SUVs while talking on the phone. So it's one hand cranking the steering wheel and paying no attention to anything happening around the car.
How fast was the train going at the point of impact?
2
What does it matter? Are you suggesting the train operator was speeding?
17
It was an express train so probably 55-65 mph which is well within the limits of the tracks at that point. If the train was going 25 there's an excellent chance it still wouldn't be able to stop on time on the cold slippery rails.
1
Better than spending millions to fix this hazardous crossing would be to simply close it completely. A blind curve, no streetlights, and used by drivers in a hurry looking for a shortcut around congestion? Sounds like this accident was a long time coming. Better to shift and even increase traffic onto larger, safer roads. Ironically most of those killed were using mass transit, not contributing to the rush hour traffic that helped lead to this disaster.
35
in the old days the locomotive would have a cow catcher mounted in front to deflect objects. Maybe just go back to that.
31
Cows usually don't explode and catch fire when you hit them.
18
In the old days trains didn't travel through congested areas at speeds over 50 mph. One solid object cannot strike another solid object at such speeds without the release of tremendous energy.
4
You can't deflect a SUV onto the third rail.
2
The driver made a fatal mistake and six people died. If the train were properly designed only one person would have died. The lead car in these trains need to be outfitted with the equivalent of a "cow catcher" that would push the automobile aside so it could not be dragged down the tracks and in this case dislodging the third rail impaling the inside of the rail car and catching fire. Otherwise run these trains with lead engines whose heavier weight and design would do the same thing.
34
Just submitted about the same and read yours. I've wondered why all trains don't have such devices; even freight trains.
It would not make much difference I am afraid. You never stop and sit on railroad tracks and you get out the way if that happens as quickly as possible. Do not blame the engineer on that train.
3
Heavier lead cars make them much less efficient... Not sure about your other idea. Everyday - day after day - no one gets stuck on the tracks. The question is why did she - my train design. If it was just a matter of design - no one would ever die in any crash.
Sympathy to those who lost their lives last night and their families. This is the line that I have used for years going back and forth to NYC. I hope that a thorough investigation determines why this accident took place and how it can be prevented. We need more mass transit travel in the US, not less, and we need a transportation system that reflects the best in technology and safety.
13
Over 300 people are killed annually in the USA at level grade crossings. The technology is basically a century old. We have switches (tripped by the train) to close the barrier and switches to stop a speeding train why can't modern technology stop or warn a train if the gate doesn't come down or the track isn't clear?
Better yet why can't we have underpasses in the densely populated suburbs. When the State of New York wanted to keep the GM truck plant in Tarrytown, they build elevated platform stations all along the right away and raised overpasses - GM closed the plant anyhow. The cost of building underpasses must be far less. Where an underpass isn't feasible just close the road to vehicular traffic - many dangerous cross roads were closed all along the Taconic in recent years
Better yet why can't we have underpasses in the densely populated suburbs. When the State of New York wanted to keep the GM truck plant in Tarrytown, they build elevated platform stations all along the right away and raised overpasses - GM closed the plant anyhow. The cost of building underpasses must be far less. Where an underpass isn't feasible just close the road to vehicular traffic - many dangerous cross roads were closed all along the Taconic in recent years
14
...the NEW technology includes Vicodin, adderol & Twitter.
Start there... first.
Start there... first.
5
Impaired train drivers are also a century old problem. In the end it is a management problem.
The MTA is governed by a 17-member Board. Members are nominated by the Governor, with four recommended by New York City's mayor and one each by the county executives of Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Dutchess, Orange, Rockland, and Putnam counties. In case someone hasn't told you New York has one of the most corrupt and dysfunctional governments in the country.
Car insurance companies know to a mathematical certainty that people who have accidents - even if not their fault - are more likely to have future accidents. Think there is something about how the MTA is run and funded that has something to do with accidents?
The MTA is governed by a 17-member Board. Members are nominated by the Governor, with four recommended by New York City's mayor and one each by the county executives of Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Dutchess, Orange, Rockland, and Putnam counties. In case someone hasn't told you New York has one of the most corrupt and dysfunctional governments in the country.
Car insurance companies know to a mathematical certainty that people who have accidents - even if not their fault - are more likely to have future accidents. Think there is something about how the MTA is run and funded that has something to do with accidents?
@ Michael - based on what i read in the article, i don't see where you are getting that this is an MetroNorth problem. It sounds like the driver of the car was completely at fault.
I am no fan of MetroNorth, but i am just not seeing your point.
I am no fan of MetroNorth, but i am just not seeing your point.
2
As a railwayman over here in the UK, may I offer my condolences to those who have lost loved ones and my sympathy to the injured?
Level Crossings, to use the UK parlance, will always be a source of danger, both from infrastructure faults and misuse by road drivers, as long as they exist.
My employer, Network Rail, is not only gradually replacing the worst level crossings with bridges, but expends a lot of time and effort into educating the public on how to use crossings safely, sadly, not always with a lot of success.
I suspect similar measures are pursued on your side of the Big Pond.
To see how stupid some people can be, try this link:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIPfoH0cqBQ
Level Crossings, to use the UK parlance, will always be a source of danger, both from infrastructure faults and misuse by road drivers, as long as they exist.
My employer, Network Rail, is not only gradually replacing the worst level crossings with bridges, but expends a lot of time and effort into educating the public on how to use crossings safely, sadly, not always with a lot of success.
I suspect similar measures are pursued on your side of the Big Pond.
To see how stupid some people can be, try this link:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIPfoH0cqBQ
68
Sometimes I get the feeling that railroad men view the world as us and our machines verses the public. Before this accident Metro=North had managed to kill five people and injure 147 in the past two years alone - all of this without the stupidity of the public. Mind you this is just a commuter railroad. Shall we put this down to the stupidity of Metro-North management and employees?
1
Kudos to the UK for their proactive action towards preventing this type of accident. Obviously they are a country that values education and infrastructure over simple austerity measures and irresponsible governmental neglect. Would someone remind me why the Boston Tea Party is still being over glorified in our hardbound history books?
2
It doesn't matter who is more stupid - RR employees or drivers of autos.
What is stupid is trading insults. Our RR systems should have a enough of a safety factor built into them to accommodate some stupidity or carelessness.
What is stupid is trading insults. Our RR systems should have a enough of a safety factor built into them to accommodate some stupidity or carelessness.
1
There seems to be a significant disconnect in some of the comments aiming blame at the MTA for this terrible accident. On the one hand, there are demands that the MTA have a state of the art infrastructure such as seen in developed countries in Europe. The fact is, is that the MTA cannot do much beyond maintaining the current antiquated system if our craven politicians are more concerned with handing over tax cuts to the wealthy while our infrastructure falls ever more in to antiquity. Having a modern transport system will require considerable investment, something that the American people through their voting, have so far been unwilling to do. How many of you complaining about this situation are willing to raise the gas tax to rectify this situation?
85
Evan, you are correct at the term 'current antiquated system'. I think it is absolutely shameful that the United States does not have a high speed rail, but I disagree about the gas taxes. Yes, gas taxes should be raised, but not to fix commuter rail. As it is, the Verrazano-Narrows toll is hideously expensive because the toll monies are used to help subsidize commuter rail. I do feel the MTA is a poorly run entity. Start looking at the 'value' the six-figured salaries the executives are bringing to the table and start cleaning shop there.
People need to watch and pay attention to what they are doing. The driver of the SUV sadly let her vehicle stop on the tracks and then wasted precious time by getting out of the vehicle and check the gate when she should have stayed and moved the darn car! Drivers need to remember to STOP, LOOK, LISTEN and not to proceed onto rail road tracks unless there is room on the other side.
People need to watch and pay attention to what they are doing. The driver of the SUV sadly let her vehicle stop on the tracks and then wasted precious time by getting out of the vehicle and check the gate when she should have stayed and moved the darn car! Drivers need to remember to STOP, LOOK, LISTEN and not to proceed onto rail road tracks unless there is room on the other side.
If we had a modern rail system, such as what is commonly seen in Western Europe, grade crossings, which are all too commonplace in the US, would be largely eliminated as they have done there. Europe achieved that infrastructure in part with their much higher gas taxes, it didn't happen by magic, as some apparently wish would happen here.
You complain that the Toll on the Verrazano bridge is too high. It might be lower if gas taxes were just a bit higher so that bridge tolls weren't having to pay for the MTA's rail operating budget. Whether it be gas taxes, or some other tax, the money has to come from somewhere...the magic rail improvement fairies don't work as hard as they used to. As to the complaint that drivers shouldn't have to pay for mass transit projects, better mass transit means less cars on the road, which means less traffic and pollution. Everybody wins.
You complain that the Toll on the Verrazano bridge is too high. It might be lower if gas taxes were just a bit higher so that bridge tolls weren't having to pay for the MTA's rail operating budget. Whether it be gas taxes, or some other tax, the money has to come from somewhere...the magic rail improvement fairies don't work as hard as they used to. As to the complaint that drivers shouldn't have to pay for mass transit projects, better mass transit means less cars on the road, which means less traffic and pollution. Everybody wins.
3
Things that need to be looked at: the crossing gates; do they allow someone to drive between them or around them? Are there reflective coatings on the crossing gates? Is the grade crossing illuminated sufficiently? Its dark, its cold, its snowy - was visibility impaired? Were the gates working correctly? Did they alarm? How long from the alarm sounding till a train arrives. At the grade crossing in Peekskill, there is 30 seconds from the time the alarm sounds till a train speeds thru the intersection. That's not a lot of time for a driver to react and clear if they have erred.
8
At this intersection of Commerce St. and the Taconic St. Pkwy., there are clear signs to not stop on the tracks (as though anyone needed such an obvious instruction). Between the Taconic Pkwy and the rails is space for one car and no other. Obviously, this space must have been filled by another vehicle. On the opposite side of the tracks, coming out from the cemetery, there are signs to Stop Here on the red light, clearly meaning not to pull forward onto the tracks (unless you're mentally impaired, this makes sense). It has worked for the 45 years I've known of it being there. Clearly, this woman ignored the signs and pulled forward, behind another car in expectation of the light changing, and sat directly on the track bed. The MTA, a company I do not normally defend, can not have imagined anyone would simply ignore a simple and intelligent warning to not sit on the train tracks. The light didn't change and she was stuck in place when the barriers came down, caring more about the damage to her vehicle than her own safety. The MTA is not at fault here.
198
Came to say the same thing. Thank you.
3
Until we know all of the specifics of the accident it would be wise not to come to snap judgements as to liability or lack thereof. In fact it would appear rather heartless to blame a victim until one has carefully weighed and measured all of the evidence as if on a jury, instead of an armchair judge. What is sure is that individuals often make driving errors which include carelessness or inattention to safety hazards. If there was a way to prevent tragic accidents like this from occurring, we would not need to have this discussion.
2
No matter how hard you try you cannot legislate to the ignorant or entitled. That crossing has been there forever how many have crossed it successfully. I really think we all know who was at fault, and it wasn't the train. I hope somebody checks the phone to see if it was being used.
3
Again, I caution against making judgments about the SUV driver until more information is known. After the first article about this accident, many commenters assumed the driver was trying to 'beat the train'. Now we have some additional information, from eyewitnesses, that indicates she was not trying to do so - she got stuck on the tracks.
So now we have commenters stating 'common sense' was not used here. It's too soon to determine that.
Eyewitness accounts state that the woman got out of her vehicle and started waving her arms, desperately, to get the train to stop. Do we know why she was waving her arms, instead of running away from the tracks? Many commenters seem to assume she was doing so because she was either 'stupid' or 'confused'.
There are too many unknowns. We still do not know the identity of this woman. Has anyone stopped to think that she was not the only person riding in that SUV? Has anyone stopped to think that there might have been others in that vehicle, passengers who could not escape from the vehicle on their own, such as an elderly person or a child strapped to a car seat?
Yes, the SUV should not have been on the tracks. Yes, instead of standing by her vehicle, the driver should have gotten away, in order to save herself. But she did not do so, and one of the unanswered questions is - Why? Why did she not save herself? The answer, at this time is "We don't know" and until we do, I urge others to not draw any conclusions.
So now we have commenters stating 'common sense' was not used here. It's too soon to determine that.
Eyewitness accounts state that the woman got out of her vehicle and started waving her arms, desperately, to get the train to stop. Do we know why she was waving her arms, instead of running away from the tracks? Many commenters seem to assume she was doing so because she was either 'stupid' or 'confused'.
There are too many unknowns. We still do not know the identity of this woman. Has anyone stopped to think that she was not the only person riding in that SUV? Has anyone stopped to think that there might have been others in that vehicle, passengers who could not escape from the vehicle on their own, such as an elderly person or a child strapped to a car seat?
Yes, the SUV should not have been on the tracks. Yes, instead of standing by her vehicle, the driver should have gotten away, in order to save herself. But she did not do so, and one of the unanswered questions is - Why? Why did she not save herself? The answer, at this time is "We don't know" and until we do, I urge others to not draw any conclusions.
34
"Negligence" is the failure to exercise reasonable care in a given situation.
She was driving, to and into a railroad crossing, where the presence of stopped cars on the other side of the tracks made it impossible to get through.
Notwithstanding, she chose to enter the railroad crossing. That is a clear failure to exercise reasonable care.
She was driving, to and into a railroad crossing, where the presence of stopped cars on the other side of the tracks made it impossible to get through.
Notwithstanding, she chose to enter the railroad crossing. That is a clear failure to exercise reasonable care.
36
I figure she was still hoping the train could stop. She was trying to avoid the accident. It is hard to think straight under so much pressure.
2
She was the single driver, and multiple witnesses saw her drive onto the tracks. She clearly was confused and did the exact wrong thing. She was only out of her vehicle because a gate came down ONTO it, and she was looking at the damage.
These are the facts. You should read the news, not the comments, first.
These are the facts. You should read the news, not the comments, first.
What the SUV driver did is symptomatic of a phenomenon I see daily: Drivers reacting only to what is immediately in front of them instead of constantly scanning for the big picture.
This driver should never have been on the tracks in the first place unless there was enough room on the roadway ahead of her, behind the next car, to completely clear the tracks. It seems like a no-brainer but most people are distracted and oblivious. Today alone:
-- car pulls out in front of me from industrial park on two-lane 45mph road; I hit brakes and then glance in my rear-view mirror -- no car in sight behind me. Why couldn't pull-out wait till the coast was clear? Because he was on phone & only assessing the distance between my approaching vehicle and himself, not the big picture.
-- giant tow truck in center lane of highway suddenly pulls into left lane right in front of me. He's traveling about 58 mph, I'm doing 80. I hit brakes and check mirror -- again, no vehicles behind me. He clearly realized his exit was to the left in about 1/2 mile, looked at my car, thought he could dart in front of me without taking time to assess our speed differentials.
-- Stop & go traffic on four-lane city street due to apt building construction crane. Large SUV gets stuck in intersection when light one block ahead turns red, causing gridlock of the cross street. It would've been easy for him to look ahead and see traffic pattern.
Wake up, get off the phone & pay attention, people.
This driver should never have been on the tracks in the first place unless there was enough room on the roadway ahead of her, behind the next car, to completely clear the tracks. It seems like a no-brainer but most people are distracted and oblivious. Today alone:
-- car pulls out in front of me from industrial park on two-lane 45mph road; I hit brakes and then glance in my rear-view mirror -- no car in sight behind me. Why couldn't pull-out wait till the coast was clear? Because he was on phone & only assessing the distance between my approaching vehicle and himself, not the big picture.
-- giant tow truck in center lane of highway suddenly pulls into left lane right in front of me. He's traveling about 58 mph, I'm doing 80. I hit brakes and check mirror -- again, no vehicles behind me. He clearly realized his exit was to the left in about 1/2 mile, looked at my car, thought he could dart in front of me without taking time to assess our speed differentials.
-- Stop & go traffic on four-lane city street due to apt building construction crane. Large SUV gets stuck in intersection when light one block ahead turns red, causing gridlock of the cross street. It would've been easy for him to look ahead and see traffic pattern.
Wake up, get off the phone & pay attention, people.
55
Why were you doing 80?
14
Bohemienne, every wonder why all these things seem to happen to you? Maybe it's not the other drivers. What was the speed limit on the highway? I bet it wasn't 80. Your examples seem to indicate that you expect everyone to yield to you!
11
Bonhemienne, Why were YOU doing 80 mph? If you had collided with the truck, you would have been the one breaking the law.
11
My uncle is buried in the graveyard across the street from this accident. He was killed in 1962 in the American Airlines flight 1 crash which went down into Jamaica Bay minutes after takeoff from the then named Idlewild airport.
As tragic as that incident was for my family and the families of the other passengers on that ill-fated flight, the good to come out that was that the airline industry and the Government responded with better oversight and regulation of the manufacture of aircraft, in response to a manufacturing defect being the cause of the crash. This has been the case with each successive aircraft accident, the ultimate result being that air travel, at least in this country, is the safest it has ever been.
None of that came cheap, however; money has been consistently spent, both from the government and the private sector, to ensure that air travel is as safe as can be.
Until politicians are willing to commit the funding necessary to improve rail travel and upgrade the rail infrastructure, these accidents are destined to repeat themselves.
As tragic as that incident was for my family and the families of the other passengers on that ill-fated flight, the good to come out that was that the airline industry and the Government responded with better oversight and regulation of the manufacture of aircraft, in response to a manufacturing defect being the cause of the crash. This has been the case with each successive aircraft accident, the ultimate result being that air travel, at least in this country, is the safest it has ever been.
None of that came cheap, however; money has been consistently spent, both from the government and the private sector, to ensure that air travel is as safe as can be.
Until politicians are willing to commit the funding necessary to improve rail travel and upgrade the rail infrastructure, these accidents are destined to repeat themselves.
41
What upgrade would have stopped this?
2
The neglect of the U.S. infrastructure is becoming more and more apparent as preventable accidents like this showcase. I feel terrible for the accident victims and wonder how easily this type of crash could have been avoided by implementing technological safety cams which could be connected to automatic breaking systems within the rail systems.
The antiquated and neglected rail systems in the U.S. reminds me of the wide discrepancies in rail within the globe writ large. Countries like Germany, Japan and Netherlands have top notch and safe public transit which contrasts with the more outdated rail in less affluent countries like India, Argentina, Ukraine, Philippines, and Indonesia. In fact, if one looks at the train accidents within the last couple of the years, it is apparent that the U.S. has suffered the majority. It is time for the public outrage within the U.S. to demand Congress to address this unconscionable neglect and preventable tragedies.
The antiquated and neglected rail systems in the U.S. reminds me of the wide discrepancies in rail within the globe writ large. Countries like Germany, Japan and Netherlands have top notch and safe public transit which contrasts with the more outdated rail in less affluent countries like India, Argentina, Ukraine, Philippines, and Indonesia. In fact, if one looks at the train accidents within the last couple of the years, it is apparent that the U.S. has suffered the majority. It is time for the public outrage within the U.S. to demand Congress to address this unconscionable neglect and preventable tragedies.
35
You are mistaken. The only way this could have been prevented is if the SUV driver had acted safely. The train was going too fast to have been stopped by a camera system. Grade crossings are fundamentally dangerous and accidents like this are very common in every country in the world. The best way to prevent these accidents is public awareness campaigns to teach grade crossing safety, particularly as a part of driver's education classes.
7
Totally agree. I hope you'll think about that as we move into the next election cycle. Americans have to come to grips with taxation and find a balance in which we can fund our infrastructure which, in this case, shuttles people to and from work to drive the economy in one of the richest cities of the world.
2
It also could have been prevented with raised or lowered railroad crossings so that cars and trains are not in each other's way but instead go over or under each other. But that takes $$. These crossings are a crazy anachronism.
1
I was on that train, in the rear car. Given the rapidity with which the situation unfolded, I thought the conductor gave ample and complete updates. He was not just sitting at the microphone ... he was actively trying to manage a major crisis. I thought he did a good job under very stressful circumstances.
309
Thank you for having the ability to post a gracious comment especially after having had such a bad experience.
7
The self-proclaimed "most advanced" country in the world cannot even manage its decrepit infrastructure - no more taxes is a fine motto, no matter the cost in human lives.
33
Just think what we could do if we were not paying to be the world's police, just think what even a fraction of the $2,000,000,000,000.00 on wars in the Middle East, just since 2001. Add in another trillion for the war on drugs and billions more in military bases and foreign military assistance, and you can see why we have little to spend on OUR nations priorities. The question is, who's priorities are we supporting.
3
I generally agree with you re infrastructure. But this particular accident seems more of a human error deal. You can't protect everyone from driver mistakes: It would bring the country to a standstill.
1
I wish I could agree that the U.S. is the most advanced in the world, although it seems more and more apparent as we look at other countries shining and beautiful new buildings and super sonic trains and highways, that the U.S. is sinking into a lower class status. Congress needs to address our deteriorating infrastructure and stop spending so much attention on building a useless pipeline.
3
It is, of course, impossible to prevent all accidents of this sort. Many of the train crossings in Northern Westchester date back to a time when it was much less populated and there was a much smaller amount of traffic. Now it is common for multiple cars to be backed up in traffic as they approach crossings. School buses must stop before entering a crossing in order to insure that there is not an obstruction of traffic on the other side that prevents fully leaving the crossing. Even though it will create traffic problems, the same should be made true for cars. There should be signs at each crossing advising a full stop and ascertaining that there is adequate clear space on the other side before proceeding. Also, I see cars enter when the gates are going up, but not completely up. The problem is that some of these are automated and start to go up, but then drop down as a train approaches from the other side. Again, it should be a rule that you can not enter the crossing unless the gates are in their full upright position and the go lights are completely clear.
19
The street where the crossing is is a busy one because it's an easy shortcut to a nearby highway. I cross it myself when I'm going to school. I've always disliked driving over it and thought it was too easy for someone to get caught in the middle, because the street where you cross the train tracks is actually on an incline/decline, and is about a few cars away from the highway intersection. It's plausible for traffic to get backed up along this street. I was there about 45 minutes before the crash and there was traffic because of an accident right at that highway intersection. If you drive there often, you know there can be a number of factors in this. Of course the driver should not have driven over the railroad crossing unless there was enough space in front of it, but the Metro North should have considered the possibility of a situation like this and could have done more to prevent an accident.
It's easy to get caught up in assumptions if you have never been there, such as 'this lady can't drive', but if you actually have to cross it, you know there are some actual precautions that should have been taken on the railroad's part. Some of the opinions people try to connect this accident to are pretty far-fetched.
It's easy to get caught up in assumptions if you have never been there, such as 'this lady can't drive', but if you actually have to cross it, you know there are some actual precautions that should have been taken on the railroad's part. Some of the opinions people try to connect this accident to are pretty far-fetched.
87
With all that traffic present, didn't anybody scream at the lady to get off the tracks?
2
I have been there often and frankly unless there was some procedural violation by the engineer or an equipment malfunction the woman is clearly at fault.
2
Gates, bells, flashing red lights and perhaps a train whistle isn't enough of a warning of an oncoming train? Who stops on train tracks anyway?
2
As a former driver education student and as someone who taught so called traffic school for people cited for violations, I'll add my note of caution.
Take a moment and search defensive driving as well as what to do in emergencies like if your brakes fail. Good to think these things through so you're not panicked if it happens.
The woman should never have been on the track unless it was so dark she couldn't sense her position. It's like not blocking the intersection. You wait till you can go.
Hearing that drivers stop on tracks often is amazing, inconceivable to me as a driver.
A little thought and awareness in all things especially behind the wheel folks.
My heart goes out to all who suffer in the aftermath.
Take a moment and search defensive driving as well as what to do in emergencies like if your brakes fail. Good to think these things through so you're not panicked if it happens.
The woman should never have been on the track unless it was so dark she couldn't sense her position. It's like not blocking the intersection. You wait till you can go.
Hearing that drivers stop on tracks often is amazing, inconceivable to me as a driver.
A little thought and awareness in all things especially behind the wheel folks.
My heart goes out to all who suffer in the aftermath.
20
In MY opinion - TEXTING may have been a MAIN cause of this disaster.
Take a look at the train operator AND the 'person' who was 'driving' the SUV ...
Take a look at the train operator AND the 'person' who was 'driving' the SUV ...
Trains and train crossings that cross highways have been around for years. Railroad companies have cavalierly proclaimed that the crossings are safe because the signals work and the gates work and all drivers have to do is obey the signals. Reality is that gates and signals may work but human beings make errors in judgment. There is no reason in the 21st century for any highway to have a crossing directly across tracks. It defies rational judgement. The only reason that trains and trucks and cars collide is because the railroads do not want to spend the money to build the over and under passes necessary to avoid collisions. Maybe in the most rural parts of the country where there is literally no traffic perhaps there we could tolerate at-grade crossings. But on the Harlem line and others like it the at-grade crossings must be totally eliminated. There is no excuse for this tragedy. Even if the driver was at fault for stopping on the tracks long before that the railroad made a determination that it is cheaper to install signals and crossing gates and not build over passes. This is about money and profits. There is only one way to prevent train and vehicle collisions. Neither should ever be on the tracks at the same time.
8
you might want to look at a map. The Taconic doesn't cross railroad tracks at any point in that area. The Parkway is about 150 -200 ft away. It's actually closer south of the accident scene closer to the Valhalla station.
2
How about human beings acting with some care and personal responsibility, Jay? Instead of blaming the railroads and big bad society how about a little blame for the bad choices that individual human beings make?
4
Jay, it's always about money. The question is, how much? There are countless non-divided roads in this country that have speed limits of 50 MPH, and with a careless small movement of a hand, any driver can instantly cause a 100 MPH head-on crash. Happens all the time, and six or more people sometimes die in these crashes. But we don't clamor for a physical divider for all roads, because the cost would be untenable. You do what you can, an it seems to me that should mostly include better driver training and traffic-law enforcement.
After running an errand on Saturday, I returned home via a multi-lane interstate highway, traveling at the speed limit. Every few minutes, a wave of vehicles sped past my car, begging the question of why everyone was in such a hurry on a day when most people aren't required to be on time for anything. Saving a couple of minutes is not worth the stress, extra gasoline cost, and danger to oneself and others. Perhaps the lady who was driving the vehicle that was stuck on the tracks in this case had a good reason for hurrying, but it seems that breaking the law has become a casual occurrence these days. Those who wouldn't think of elbowing someone out of the way, were they standing in line, don't seem to have any such compunction once anonymously behind the wheel of a car. Please think about this and slow down, even if for just one or two days a week.
This horrible tragedy could have been prevented. Since more than 2000 persons are killed each year in this country at railroad crossings, it seems that not enough drivers are willing to obey the law and wait for the train. Grade level crossings should perhaps be monitored with cameras, but what is apparent is that the crossing gates should come down much earlier, to give the train operator time to stop, or, failing that, greatly reduce the speed of the train and/or get everyone out of the cars most likely to sustain damage in the impact.
Those killed in this tragic incident and their families will be in my thoughts and prayers.
This horrible tragedy could have been prevented. Since more than 2000 persons are killed each year in this country at railroad crossings, it seems that not enough drivers are willing to obey the law and wait for the train. Grade level crossings should perhaps be monitored with cameras, but what is apparent is that the crossing gates should come down much earlier, to give the train operator time to stop, or, failing that, greatly reduce the speed of the train and/or get everyone out of the cars most likely to sustain damage in the impact.
Those killed in this tragic incident and their families will be in my thoughts and prayers.
3
Most cops would say that by traveling more slowly than the prevailing speed, you were putting in danger more people than were the speeders.
The article said she got stuck on the tracks. Does that mean that her vehicle stalled or there was ice on the tracks or she was stuck because of cars ahead of her?
8
If you learned to drive in the country, you knew that whenever you came to a railroad crossing you did the following: Stop, look, and listen. And you never entered a railroad crossing unless you could completely clear it.
However, in urban areas this does not work. So, we have to eliminate grade crossings. If an overpass / underpass would work, build it. If not, unless the crossing is the sole means of access to an area, block it off with concrete barriers. And, if you keep it open, make the train reduce speed to 15 or 20 mph.
However, in urban areas this does not work. So, we have to eliminate grade crossings. If an overpass / underpass would work, build it. If not, unless the crossing is the sole means of access to an area, block it off with concrete barriers. And, if you keep it open, make the train reduce speed to 15 or 20 mph.
8
While it's not as bad as the '80s, anyone riding Metro North on even an occasional basis has seen a deterioration in service over the past several years--dirty cars, crowded at the same time cars are sometimes hauled empty because conductors are too lazy to walk an extra car, sloppy connections at Southeast, disgusting platforms (at least on the Harlem line, poorly cared for, especially in winter) ridiculously antiquated ticketing in an age of credit cards and smartphone etc etc etc. Sloppiness all around, including, apparently, as far as safety is concerned. All I know is that if any mayor of NYC or governor is serious about reducing the number of cars in the city, there has got to be better--and safer--commuter service.
2
They don'y have the money Charlie. The MTA money is all tied up in pension and health benefits for the workers.
2
If you live up there in Valhalla, there is nothing "confusing" about the train coming through. I think Cuomo is confused.
6
That's not what the locals are saying about this particular crossing.
1
If only we could collaborate through some neutral international entity to share our individual public infrastructure "lessons learned," such as Japan's automatic braking systems for vehicle incursions, we could avoid a lot of tragedies, errors, waste, inefficiency, and trouble. It's time we took advantage of global connectivity and did something useful with it regarding public administration.
69
Ah, but that would require infrastructure spending--something that will never happen with a Republican congress and a Democratic president. The GOP will do ANYTHING they can to stop Obama from accomplishing anything, even if it's badly needed repairs and upgrades on our vital civic resources. Can't have things getting better with this despised president in office, nope, can't have that.
A few years ago - as my wife and I were planning a short vacation in Florida - we decided to try something different, and we booked a sleeper car on Amtrak - from Penn Station in New York City, all the way down to Ft. Lauderdale...
It was delightful (albeit, somewhat expensive) experience -- but I discovered something along the way --
While booking our Amtrak reservations, I had romantic visions of sitting by the window as beautiful scenery of rolling hills and countryside glided along...
What I got was something a bit different --
After we pulled out of Washington, D.C. - most of the scenery consisted of the back lots of industrial buildings, and - literally - the back yards of the homes of people who lived in what we would politely refer to as the "less affluent" parts of town --
I saw children romping and playing as the train passed by -- and some people just standing there...ten or fifteen feet from the tracks, as the train passed through -
After dark, while we were snug in our berths, we could hear the train whistle being blown almost continuously...
At first we couldn't figure out why -- but then we realized it was to alert people who lived near the tracks that a train was approaching --
After that experience, the saying - "She came from the other side of the tracks" - suddenly took on a whole new meaning...
It was delightful (albeit, somewhat expensive) experience -- but I discovered something along the way --
While booking our Amtrak reservations, I had romantic visions of sitting by the window as beautiful scenery of rolling hills and countryside glided along...
What I got was something a bit different --
After we pulled out of Washington, D.C. - most of the scenery consisted of the back lots of industrial buildings, and - literally - the back yards of the homes of people who lived in what we would politely refer to as the "less affluent" parts of town --
I saw children romping and playing as the train passed by -- and some people just standing there...ten or fifteen feet from the tracks, as the train passed through -
After dark, while we were snug in our berths, we could hear the train whistle being blown almost continuously...
At first we couldn't figure out why -- but then we realized it was to alert people who lived near the tracks that a train was approaching --
After that experience, the saying - "She came from the other side of the tracks" - suddenly took on a whole new meaning...
9
Many of the comments are sort of silly. Having commuted on metro north for almost 40 years "accidents" do happen. Apparently the gates came down when she got stuck on the tracks and when you talk about coulda shoulda no one really knows what they would do in that situation. however I always made a point of not sitting in the rear or front cars of the train.
4
There are always going to be motorist errors, particularly in a fast paced, high pressure society. But there is always room for improvement in systematic safety measures in public transportation.
Other than that, one is at a loss for words. What a disturbing tragedy.
Other than that, one is at a loss for words. What a disturbing tragedy.
8
Can we put to rest to the tired notion that such train vs. car collisions don't happen in other countries? It simply is not true. Therefore, this terrible accident does not mean we are behind the world in rail safety. It was an accident that initially appears to be caused by the car driver. Please Google "train car collisions england" for examples of similar accidents in England.
10
With todays technology there could be proximity sensors or remote cameras placed at crossings that alert the conductor that something is blocking the track at the intersection.
4
A train can not stop quickly enough for your suggestion to help.
6
Or drivers could pay attention and not sit on the tracks.
My option is cheaper
My option is cheaper
5
I am likewise surprised that there are grade crossings across MetroNorth lines. Secondarily, it sure doesn't seem to take much to get a driver's license in this country these days. That plus utter incomprehension of the power of a train (or even a tractor trailer) or the distance it takes for them to stop. "Waving at the train to stop"??? And getting back in the vehicle? I initially thought, how foolish. But then given the toll of this accident, I suspect this poor person is, sadly, better off gone. Her life would be ruined.
6
This could have been prevented. Law of physics: you cannot stop a speeding train on a dime.
7
Words cannot express the tragedy of this situation. I have just moved into a town with a RR crossing. Recently got my lincense as well and I remember consciously spending time on the RR section.
But in reality the roads which intersect the RR are not simple.
- The traffic light is way ahead of the tracks
- From what i have seen of halted vehicles, there is room for 1 directly in front of the light
- the painted sign of the road which says RR crossing ahead is well behind the tracks.
- so is the white line behind which you are supposed to halt - by law i think
Behind the line, behind the RR tracks is where i stop. but i have been overtaken by drivers who want to go ahead of the track closer to the light and I am confused.
Is this just impatience, or am I expected to go closer to the light, past the tracks?
My heart goes out to the families affected. RIP
But in reality the roads which intersect the RR are not simple.
- The traffic light is way ahead of the tracks
- From what i have seen of halted vehicles, there is room for 1 directly in front of the light
- the painted sign of the road which says RR crossing ahead is well behind the tracks.
- so is the white line behind which you are supposed to halt - by law i think
Behind the line, behind the RR tracks is where i stop. but i have been overtaken by drivers who want to go ahead of the track closer to the light and I am confused.
Is this just impatience, or am I expected to go closer to the light, past the tracks?
My heart goes out to the families affected. RIP
10
This is so simple: park where the warning line is. Stay well back from a railroad track. Do not get close to a track. And never try to race a train.
4
This was a terrible accident and we are looking for someone to blame. Just as an example, I drive across train tracks twice a day in New Jersey to get to work, and traffic is always slow or stopped in that vicinity because of a nearby school. I don’t loiter on the tracks at the rail barriers, but I see that most drivers think nothing of stopping their car literally on the tracks – just for a moment – while the traffic ahead moves on. What if a train were to come and your vehicle were unable to move either forward or back? The railroad does its duty. It puts up barriers and signs and the tracks are clearly visible, but errant drivers still park there for seconds or even a minute at a time, while they wait to pull forward. It’s like the McDonalds coffee situation all over again. Don’t drink (or spill) hot coffee. It might burn. But if we can’t force people to be responsible for themselves and others, perhaps we need to put up cameras and fine them.
18
I wish people wouldn't cite that McDonald's coffee case as an example of someone spuriously blaming a company over something they were just stupid about. Read the facts of that case, the horrible injuries the elderly woman suffered, and the findings of the courts which awarded her damages but more importantly spurred the restaurant to a) reduce the insanely hot temperature of their take-out coffee and b) provide warnings on the cups. Both positive results of the lawsuit in this case.
13
Not only a rush to judgment but a completely incorrect analogy. The McDonalds case was about coffee that was too hot compared to what should have been a reasonable temperature. If the coffee had been been at reasonable temperature the coffee sill wouldn't have caused the severe burns it did. By comparing this accident to McDonalds you are saying MetroNorth is to blame.
As to the rush to find blame, we don't even know what exactly happened, aside from the driver was in the wrong place. From what witnesses have said in the article, the driver may have just been confused and not intentionally trying to beat the train. It is horrible but sometimes accidents happen.
As to the rush to find blame, we don't even know what exactly happened, aside from the driver was in the wrong place. From what witnesses have said in the article, the driver may have just been confused and not intentionally trying to beat the train. It is horrible but sometimes accidents happen.
2
[[At about 6:30 p.m., there was a line of cars on Commerce Street leading back onto the Taconic and a witness watched as the woman in the S.U.V. found herself on the tracks when the crossing bar went down.]]
Yeah. As a rule, you want to stay on your side of the tracks unless and until you are sure that you can cross and be clear of the tracks.
Yeah. As a rule, you want to stay on your side of the tracks unless and until you are sure that you can cross and be clear of the tracks.
14
And why, pray tell, did she feel it necessary to park on a track? That defies common sense.
2
Pictures of the street intersection show no grade at all between the train tracks and the street, as if it were just a normal street intersection for cars.
It is surprising this does not happen more often.
32
The ringing bells, flashing red lights, and dropping gates are a pretty good indicator that a train is coming. Plus the train blows its horn loudly. So I WOULD be suprised if this happened more often.
54
This is definitely no excuse for the driver's confusion. There is no grade in any Chicago suburbs. Everyone knows what those dropped gates mean. That is not an excuse.
6
Kelly if you read more, you will find out that there was bumper to bumper traffic and no street lighting. The driver was in error but context is everything, you know, before you judge.
2
That photo is heartbreaking. The crushed car, the charred train and, behind the image, a cemetery.
Such a sad and senseless loss.
Such a sad and senseless loss.
16
THIS is why we need to improve our educational system. The driver obviously failed (or didn't take) Physics 101.
The train always wins.
The train always wins.
16
Just like all the teens and tweens killed walking on the railroad tracks with earbuds plugged in. Then their parents cry out for vengeance and for more taxpayer dollars spent on special crossings, signage, etc.
When simple and cheap "Don't ever walk on the railroad tracks" training of children could prevent the whole thing.
When I learned how to drive my dad trained me to always, always pause and look both ways at the tracks, regardless of whether or not barricades were up or lights not flashing, and regardless of what other drivers were or were not doing. "They're not driving your car, you are" he said if I protested that vehicles behind were impatient at the excessive caution.
Simple advice but it's worked for 35 years on the road.
When simple and cheap "Don't ever walk on the railroad tracks" training of children could prevent the whole thing.
When I learned how to drive my dad trained me to always, always pause and look both ways at the tracks, regardless of whether or not barricades were up or lights not flashing, and regardless of what other drivers were or were not doing. "They're not driving your car, you are" he said if I protested that vehicles behind were impatient at the excessive caution.
Simple advice but it's worked for 35 years on the road.
13
I remember all the public service announcements while attending Sachem school district in the early 1980's. They made it abundantly clear : STOP, LOOK, LISTEN; do not cross tracks unless there is room on the other side; and the rail road tracks are private property.
My bet is the SUV driver was also someone who 'blocked the box' at intersections too.
My bet is the SUV driver was also someone who 'blocked the box' at intersections too.
1
As a former longtime RR employee I have seen many accidents. Responsibility this one lies squarely with the driver of the Jeep. Looking at the site there was limited visibility, but also no cost effective way to eliminate the crossing.
It would be a VERY expensive crossing to eliminate due to multiple elevations the station and roads involved.
I was surprised that passengers were hurt and killed but chaos must have ensued because the head car of the train was skewered by the third rail coming up thru the floor. This was a tragic accident caused by an impatient driver.
It would be a VERY expensive crossing to eliminate due to multiple elevations the station and roads involved.
I was surprised that passengers were hurt and killed but chaos must have ensued because the head car of the train was skewered by the third rail coming up thru the floor. This was a tragic accident caused by an impatient driver.
23
Are busy railroad crossings monitored by CCTV or illuminated as a matter of course in the state? If the driver was "confused" perhaps they had pulled across the crossing without realising there no exit due to density of the traffic.
In the UK, Network Rail the railway infrastucture compamy, has a programme of closing crossings when possible. No small task.
In the UK, Network Rail the railway infrastucture compamy, has a programme of closing crossings when possible. No small task.
4
There are flashing red lights in series across the grade crossing gates. How is a flashing light not seen? There is a story that the driver went around other drivers to cross the tracks.
6
There is no such thing as "confusion" about a railroad track and the extremely large trains that travel on it.
5
Again the proof that anybody can drive a car. And these kind of things will keep happening as long as it's so easy to pass a driving test. Sounds ridiculous but we should introduce some kind of psychological tests for drivers.
14
This summarizes the issue Imo.
In America everyone assumes it's a right to drive, not something that should be observed with incredible responsibility.
6 people died yesterday because of some poor decisions, but in reality thousands of Americans die every year from stupid driving decisions (over a third involving alcohol. )
In America everyone assumes it's a right to drive, not something that should be observed with incredible responsibility.
6 people died yesterday because of some poor decisions, but in reality thousands of Americans die every year from stupid driving decisions (over a third involving alcohol. )
4
Some commenters note we have a problem of "stupid people" who get themselves in trouble at railroad crossings and can cause serious damage and even death. Can we do anything to help prevent such tragedies?
Oddly, we don't mind spending a fortune trying to figure out how to make it more difficult for and to find ways to block/obstruct terrorists from doing damage. But what about our "problem people" at railroad crossings--or at subway platforms?
But, as other commenters point out, Europe seems to have no trouble realizing there are problematic/stupid people out there, and so many of those countries find ways to make it more difficult if not impossible for them to cause accidents like this from happening. Please read some of these informative commens.
No, not US, we are too busy--one political party in particular--trying to find ways to block spending money to fix our crumbling infrastructure, to de-regulate rather than work to protect 317 million citizens and the environment, and to boost military spending and invasions into foreign lands, while doing away with government's obligations and services to the people.
Who is really the most stupid here?
Oddly, we don't mind spending a fortune trying to figure out how to make it more difficult for and to find ways to block/obstruct terrorists from doing damage. But what about our "problem people" at railroad crossings--or at subway platforms?
But, as other commenters point out, Europe seems to have no trouble realizing there are problematic/stupid people out there, and so many of those countries find ways to make it more difficult if not impossible for them to cause accidents like this from happening. Please read some of these informative commens.
No, not US, we are too busy--one political party in particular--trying to find ways to block spending money to fix our crumbling infrastructure, to de-regulate rather than work to protect 317 million citizens and the environment, and to boost military spending and invasions into foreign lands, while doing away with government's obligations and services to the people.
Who is really the most stupid here?
114
The quality of public services, at least in the NYC are, has fallen. Metro North is particularly out-of-date. Though this is minor, perhaps, it is not uncommon for a Metro North train to have one lavatory on the entire train of at least eight or ten cars. Occasionally, there are two lavatories. When one enters a train, it is not clear where these are located. If one tries to move from one car to another during the trip to access the single lavatory, a menacing sign warns the passenger not to travel between cars while the train is in motion. This is but one aspect of Metro North out-of-touchness. The other is that some conductors are rude and unprofessional, apparently unable to master any thoughts that do not have to do with collecting tickets.
3
The woman driving the Jeep was not trying to beat the train, but was " somehow confused"? Am wondering how old she is and whether she should have been driving at all.
13
Mistakes happen, in this case with tragic results. Your assumptions about her age and whether she should have been driving are baseless and disrespectful.
9
The woman was 49. Your ageist comment is very insensitive.
2
A factor that few people seem to acknowledge is - human nature. Things happen. It had nothing to do with the age of the driver. I'd take an 80-year old driver any day over a 22-year old guy. Statistics would prove me out.
The excuses people will make for others always amazes me. It doesn't matter if traffic was heavy, if it was dark out, or if no-one was directing traffic. Unless she was actually pushed onto the tracks the driver of the car was clearly at fault and responsible for the deaths and injuries to everyone else. Her actions show a blatant disregard for her own life and those of the people she killed. You DO NOT stop a vehicle on train tracks ever. That means you don't proceed across train tracks unless there is space on the other side to accommodate your vehicle. They teach this in driver safety classes and it has been included in every driver's manual I have read (California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Jersey, and New York). This isn't some arcane rule like turning left on red. Hopefully this accident will be a wake up call to all the inattentive drivers I see on the road every day.
15
Was this a suicide by the driver of the SUV?
Why would you say that? Read the article.
5
In which direction was the SUV traveling? North or South? Towards the cemetery or towards the Taconic?
It seems that she was traveling north. You can't normally get to the crossing going south if a train is approaching because of the way the traffic lights work in that situation. The lights remain red until the train passes.
really horrible accident.. as a regular Newhaven Line commuter, every time I travel on these swaying, creaky railcars I wonder if the system is working OK.... and to those who are directly affected today, although maybe it is understandably little comfort, please accept the deeply felt condolences of all if us... but on a technical matter, I have managed to get the doors of those older cars open even when the train is officially stopped with doors closed... if enough people can be organized to get their fingers in on each side, in extremely hot (summer) conditions at a long standstill during daytime with no power or A/C, we could pry the doors open and put a briefcase between so as to get some air into the railcar... and I have always assumed that similar tactics might work in a still upright car after an accident, but am not sure I'm correct...can anyone confirm? if so, this is one way to facilitate escape from the car in emergency?
1
I never heard of a train stopping ahead of a collision. They just bang into it. Am I missing something? Is a conductor looking in front of a train at the track or is it just for automobiles?
Trains take a very long time to stop. They cannot just be stopped within a few hundred feet. It can take up to a quarter mile or more to stop a train. This should be common knowledge among drivers, but apparently is not.
6
It sounds like she drove past the gate, it came down on her car, and she was either checking to see if she could back up, or perhaps asking the man behind her to back up. He was interviewed saying he started to when she pulled the car forward and into the path of the train. Another commenter says this is a very dangerous spot.
7
My heart breaks for the driver of the car and for the passengers who died.
The Commerce Street train crossing, even in the best of weather, is not an easy one to drive over. I have driven over it many times and I avoid it when I can for the crossing just south at Lakeview. I wonder if the ice and snow were factors for the driver of the SUV and the subsequent accident. If Commerce wasn't properly cleared from the preceding day's snow it would not surprise me that someone got stuck. It is distressing and unfair to read Rob Astrorino's comments condemning the driver when all the facts are not in yet. We have yet to discover what happened. Let's wait and see.
The Commerce Street train crossing, even in the best of weather, is not an easy one to drive over. I have driven over it many times and I avoid it when I can for the crossing just south at Lakeview. I wonder if the ice and snow were factors for the driver of the SUV and the subsequent accident. If Commerce wasn't properly cleared from the preceding day's snow it would not surprise me that someone got stuck. It is distressing and unfair to read Rob Astrorino's comments condemning the driver when all the facts are not in yet. We have yet to discover what happened. Let's wait and see.
37
I have read a lot of irresponsible comments this morning. Let's keep in mind a few things: the driver died and her family is grieving. Why then, before all facts are in, would anyone write comments condemning her? People have said she was trying to beat the train; that she got out to see if the crossing guard dinged her SUV, etc. What we know so far is just as consistent with the following (and is far more logical than the hostile knee-jerk comments):
Due to an earlier accident traffic in front of the SUV prevented the SUV from clearing the tracks. The SUV driver did not know this was going to happen when she began to cross the tracks. When the crossing guard came down she tried as best she could to get the he!! off the tracks regardless of the traffic, maybe by driving off-road, but she could not move her SUV. She got out of the SUV to see if the crossing guard is what was preventing her SUV from moving forward. Then she got back in her SUV but by then it was too late.
Note that she could have abandoned her vehicle and saved her own life! But instead she got back in the SUV to try to move it, for the sake of those on the train.
I am frankly disgusted by all the comments condemning this woman before all the facts are in. It's one thing to post as a troll with regard to someone's political commentary or some book or movie or whatever. But this is a bona fide tragedy, so would you all please grow up and be decent human beings?
Due to an earlier accident traffic in front of the SUV prevented the SUV from clearing the tracks. The SUV driver did not know this was going to happen when she began to cross the tracks. When the crossing guard came down she tried as best she could to get the he!! off the tracks regardless of the traffic, maybe by driving off-road, but she could not move her SUV. She got out of the SUV to see if the crossing guard is what was preventing her SUV from moving forward. Then she got back in her SUV but by then it was too late.
Note that she could have abandoned her vehicle and saved her own life! But instead she got back in the SUV to try to move it, for the sake of those on the train.
I am frankly disgusted by all the comments condemning this woman before all the facts are in. It's one thing to post as a troll with regard to someone's political commentary or some book or movie or whatever. But this is a bona fide tragedy, so would you all please grow up and be decent human beings?
86
Thank you for that comment. Hindsight is 20/20... How many people commenting here might have acted similarly to the jeep driver under the circumstances?
5
Agreed. The infrastructure in this area is ancient and miserable. Accidents such as this are built into the system. There's no way this accident can be blamed on this poor woman. What's needed is an increase of the gas tax to start a complete overhaul of our ancient, and dangerous, infrastructure. This system is 100 years old and needs to be fixed. Can you image, in the the 21 Century, building a road across an airport runway? We'll just put up some gates and it'll be OK.
1
See, this is the big problem: "Due to an earlier accident traffic in front of the SUV prevented the SUV from clearing the tracks. The SUV driver did not know this was going to happen when she began to cross the tracks."
No, the driver did not know -- so she should have stayed on her side of the tracks until it was abundantly clear that sufficient space existed on the other side of the tracks to catch up with the line of traffic. Blindly following the taillights in front of you is a poor way to pilot a vehicle. People need to wake up and realize the responsibility in their hands when they are behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
No, the driver did not know -- so she should have stayed on her side of the tracks until it was abundantly clear that sufficient space existed on the other side of the tracks to catch up with the line of traffic. Blindly following the taillights in front of you is a poor way to pilot a vehicle. People need to wake up and realize the responsibility in their hands when they are behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
9
I drive in Toronto. You are taking your life in your hands when you get into your car. Drivers are impatient, take unbelievable risks, still text message or phone while doing dangerous moves, speed through red lights, pass speeding on narrow roads, speed in icy conditions and try to get by you within inches of your car. Pedestrians are just as bad. This accident is a tragedy. He drove around the barrier to beat the train, perhaps, as one commenter said. I believe it.
11
First, it was a she, not a he. And while pedestrians text (and this annoys me as well), a pedestrian is not nearly in the same risk category as a driver who is behind a 60 mph moving piece of multi-ton metal.
1
@FredF. A distracted pedestrian can be and should be considered in the same risk category as a distracted driver because the irresponsible pedestrian can push or trip another pedestrian into the path of a car, train, or other conveyance or step into the path himself causing an accident and resultant injuries created by the avoidance maneuvers of responsible conveyance operators.
1
This accident happened because there was a head-on collision on the Taconic parkway. There are no lights at all on any of the state roads "in the country", 1/2 hour from NYC, and there is barely room for two cars in each lane with no shoulder or breakdown lane. With the head on crash, all traffic was diverted to a dark road with NO LIGHTS. The road parallels the train tracks. At the crossing where the crash occurred, which is in a cemetary the tracks intersect the rails at an approximate 40 degree angle, and the tracks are on a blind curve. 100 feet beyond the tracks is another intersection with said highway which has traffic lights but NO STREET LIGHTS. Because of the head on collision, heavy rush hour traffic was going at a crawl through a darkened cemetery on an unlit road without guidance from local police. When the traffic light on the highway changed red, the vehicle was on the tracks. When the gate came down, the driver "seemed confused". Having not crossed the tracks, she may have been unaware she was even on an active commuter line when she got back in her car, and she could not have seen the train coming because of the angle. Why she drove forward into the path of the oncoming train we will never know, but this was both foreseeable and preventable.
108
Thank you for that informative post providing context. There has been a huge rush to condemn the driver of the SUV, when it seems that visibility may have been poor at the crossing and it may have been an unfamiliar route for her. Also, it seems to me that the gate was down behind her car so she may have assumed she could only drive forward. A bad decision that cost her life and the lives of five others.
29
I'm sorry, but the confused thing grates me.
the road has clearly marked RR Crossing yellow signs approaching the tracks.
The road has painted RR crossing markings of pavement.
Taking into account not seeing the RR pavement markings on the ground, the signs are there.
And it's really obvious when your pavement changes to train tracks.
So assuming she got stuck on the tracks when the cars in front of her stopped at the light (say one person stopped early at the yellow. it happens).
, there are these Big Red Flashing Lights and Bells and Gates saying Train Is Coming! Train Is Coming!
You get stuck, you get out and run from the car.
the road has clearly marked RR Crossing yellow signs approaching the tracks.
The road has painted RR crossing markings of pavement.
Taking into account not seeing the RR pavement markings on the ground, the signs are there.
And it's really obvious when your pavement changes to train tracks.
So assuming she got stuck on the tracks when the cars in front of her stopped at the light (say one person stopped early at the yellow. it happens).
, there are these Big Red Flashing Lights and Bells and Gates saying Train Is Coming! Train Is Coming!
You get stuck, you get out and run from the car.
12
You're right about the area not being very well lit. But your idea that she didn't know she was on an active commuter line is ridiculous -- there are bright flashing lights and a loud ringing bell when that particular crossing is closed. You would have to be both blind and deaf not to realize that you were in some danger.
11
Same thing happened in California, was even same model vehicle with fatalities. Commuter train protection not as good without locomotive up front. Best option is eliminating grade crossing altogether.
8
The United States is the Third World. We are more like Russia than anyone cares to admit replete with our floundering infrastructure and disgusting or non-existent public bathrooms( how's that for a non-sequitur! )Shall I go on? Collectively, Americans are slobs, because any national sense of personal and human dignity (including manners) went extinct with advent of sweatpants and jumbo sodas. The guy in the SUV demonstrated he had no sense of personal responsibility. WE are all taught to stop at RR x-ings not just for our personal safety, but for the safety of society. Did he truly value his Jeep's bumper over all other life and the law? He can't speak for himself, but his actions speak for him.
18
It was a she, not a he.
She. the driver in the SUV was a female. Seems minor, but it's important and shows reading of the story.
What astounds me is that people can't wait until a train passes to cross the tracks. What is a car doing on the tracks when a train is coming. Very stupid. But it's like that everywhere, people don't want to wait to cross the street, they don't want to wait in line, even here in city hall, they will knock you down so they could get to where they are going. Nothing is more important than your life, doesn't anybody remember 911
18
This was an auto accident, outside of the crossing itself, had nothing to do with the infrastructure. As far as infrastructure goes, if voters continue to vote for people who insist on smaller government, little if any tax or regulation, taking us back to the pre-civil war South, then things will continue to fall apart, you yourself will be fixing the roads. This was an accident...God Bless those who perished...
45
Thanks for the common sense comment - it was the driver's fault, not Metro North.
17
The entire trans continental was built in 6 years from 1863-1869, bridges and all. With a small government. How did that happen?
There is no real way to prevent this type of accident other than don't cross train tracks unless you can drive all the way across to the other side. Neither Positive Train Control nor cameras on the lead train car will prevent this type of accident. Stop look listen. My mother taught me that when I was four. Take responsibility for your own actions.
47
Unfortunately, another example of "common sense is not common."
The rules in every Drivers Manual for how to handle railroad crossings are very straightforward and easy to follow.
The rules in every Drivers Manual for how to handle railroad crossings are very straightforward and easy to follow.
28
Why is there even a crossing?
Such a railroad should have its own dedicated lane, with an overpass or underpass instead of crossing.
Such a railroad should have its own dedicated lane, with an overpass or underpass instead of crossing.
93
And that would cost nothing, so it should happen tomorrow too. You are right, but this falls under "stating the super obvious".
13
Most likely there is no underpass of overpass because there is little room to build one - the train is wedged between the Taconic Parkway and several enormous and crowded cemeteries - and the crossing is on a minor road that apparently had unusual traffic trying to get around a tie-up on the Taconic.
4
I hope no one seriously considers this question... Overpasses are expensive; underpasses even more so. A driver should never stop on railroad tracks. Please consider that trains operating on fix tracks don't slam into vehicles. It's not like they can go around the vehicle while traveling at low or high rate of speed pulling 10s of passenger cars. This is a sad example, but a vivid reminder to obey basic driving rules.
5
Why was this woman stopped on the tracks with the gate on top of her SUV unless she entered the tracks before she could clear the other side? And after making that ultimately fatal mistake, why would she get out of the SUV to inspect the damage caused by the gate without first looking to see if a train was approaching? The gates were down for goodness sake! A train was coming.
This is so sad and so preventable. I see people's driving skills becoming more and more dangerous. The number of people who sit at green lights with their heads down looking at their phones. Swerving on highways with their heads down. Tailgating, driving with bright lights on with no regard for who the oncoming or driver they are right behind.
This is so sad and so preventable. I see people's driving skills becoming more and more dangerous. The number of people who sit at green lights with their heads down looking at their phones. Swerving on highways with their heads down. Tailgating, driving with bright lights on with no regard for who the oncoming or driver they are right behind.
255
Yes, and when you pause before crossing tracks, to ensure there's time/space enough to cross, you invariably get beeped by the person behind you, eager to rush traffic through the level crossing.
7
Why did she stop? Well, reading the article, it seems there was a lot of traffic congestion caused by diversions from another major road because of a traffic accident.
In that case, given low light conditions, possibly with poor visibility and throw in total unfamiliarity with the road, then you have several minor accidental circumstances combining to create a trap into which the lady driver sadly fell.
In that case, given low light conditions, possibly with poor visibility and throw in total unfamiliarity with the road, then you have several minor accidental circumstances combining to create a trap into which the lady driver sadly fell.
7
Hear hear.
1
How does the electrified third rail become unhinged? There must be a way to keep the third rail secure even with an impact on the tracks.
So awful.
So awful.
7
I'm only guessing, but probably because the third rail does not pass over the road intersection. So the point where the third rail begins again may gotten caught by the SUV as it was pushed down the track by the train, then pushed up into the first train car.
4
I had that thought and did a "google drive". I was curious to the use of third rails and how cars, bike, and peds could cross without electrification.
well, they actually stop the third rail at a point before the crossing, and it begins again on the other side. I guess the trains are long enough that electricity keeps flowing into the engine/wheels.
so if the suv "caught" on the 3rd rail it could have yanked it from the moorings, especially with the force of speed and metal
well, they actually stop the third rail at a point before the crossing, and it begins again on the other side. I guess the trains are long enough that electricity keeps flowing into the engine/wheels.
so if the suv "caught" on the 3rd rail it could have yanked it from the moorings, especially with the force of speed and metal
If they are anything like the 3rd rails we have over here, they rely on gravity to hold them in place!
Anyone interested in the technicalities might like this link:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/3rd-4th.html
Anyone interested in the technicalities might like this link:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/3rd-4th.html
Sounds like a classic case of driver error. Who stops on railroad tracks, especially in slow moving traffic? Not only stopping but getting out of the car to check it on railroad tracks! And I wonder why no one has asked this question: Why, once she heard the train barreling down on her, didn't she immediately run out of the way? The hell with the car...Save your life. Her ears should have warned her if her eyes could not see the train. Both senses didn't need to be working. Bad human judgement is apparent based on preliminary information from witnesses.
May God have mercy on these poor souls.
May God have mercy on these poor souls.
14
Tragic. I don't understand how the driver of the car could get out to look at the damage of the rail crossing on the back of the car, get back in the car, and not get out again when it was clear the train was coming. Could she have saved herself? Could she, by turning the car off and getting out, have prevented the fire and other deaths?
5
As I understand it the driver got out, checked the back of her vehicle and returned to her car. How sad that she didn't just get away from her car knowing it was stuck. Rest in peace to her and the other person who died and condolences to all affected.
5
I am very curious about whether the crossing gate's inability to fully close, as a result of it having struck the SUV, resulted in an emergency signal ordering1 approaching trains to stop. Had this occurred, the outcome might have been different.
11
A train can not stop quickly enough for a system as you suggest to help.
4
Judging from the comments by people who live in the area, there were issues with the crossing that should have been fixed years ago. However, you never, NEVER stop on a railroad crossing. It doesn't matter if you are going to miss a light or the guy behind you is honking like crazy, you DO NOT STOP on a railroad crossing. You wait until you can drive completely over it. To do otherwise is to invite the disaster that can, and did, happen.
279
Living near a railroad crossing I can assure you this rule is not universally heeded, some people still in the crossing, much to my dismay. So we either accept that some people don't know or don't care about the rule and build better safety into crossing systems our we accept these tragedies. I think we can do better.
3
If traffic was moving when the guard was up, but stopped - trapping her on the tracks - after she started across, which may have been the case due to an earlier accident snarling traffic - this could have happened despite her taking reasonable care. I do think it reflects well on the driver that, rather than running and saving her own life (after all she got out of the SUV) she got back in and tried to move the vehicle - perhaps deliberately putting herself at risk for the sake of those in the train. That she failed in no way diminishes her efforts if this is the case. So let's not jump to conclusions. I don't know if this is what occurred, but given the earlier accident, it may be. So let's wait before judging.
89
One of the measures we take stems from the "Box Junction" regulations on the road where certain road junctions have a cross hatched yellow box painted on them.
It is illegal, and does bring hefty fines, if you drive into a box junction and have to stop because your exit is not clear.
Used on Level Crossings has the same effect, of advising the driver he or she can not stop.
It is illegal, and does bring hefty fines, if you drive into a box junction and have to stop because your exit is not clear.
Used on Level Crossings has the same effect, of advising the driver he or she can not stop.
I had to read the sentence twice to believe it. First thing I realized is that the driver deliberately was trying to beat the railroad crossing gate because the warning lights were already flashing. But when he wasn't quick enough and the railroad crossing gate came down onto the rear of the SUV the driver stopped on the tracks, got out to look for damage and then got back into the SUV? OMG. What was he thinking?!?!?
13
She not he
3
It was a woman
2
We, in America, have the worst rail (and airport) systems in the developed world. There is no excuse for it. It is way past time to end the tax-coddling of the wealthy and end the grotesque, thoroughly political funding of junk military equipment and use ALL that money to upgrade our ugly and worn out transportation system.
That said, drivers need to be educated and warned to NEVER stop on train tracks for any reason. That's a pretty simple and obvious lesson.
That said, drivers need to be educated and warned to NEVER stop on train tracks for any reason. That's a pretty simple and obvious lesson.
18
I have said this before and will say it again: we need to upgrade our public transit network. Europe and Asia invest in their infrastructure, specifically their rail networks. They may not be absolutely perfect, but they are ahead of ours - way ahead.
We cannot go on living with the notion that we don't need to spend to develop our country. Had we felt that way some years ago, we'd still be relying mainly on a two lane road system instead of the interstate highways we have today.
It is time for us to take the next step.
We cannot go on living with the notion that we don't need to spend to develop our country. Had we felt that way some years ago, we'd still be relying mainly on a two lane road system instead of the interstate highways we have today.
It is time for us to take the next step.
18
Reading some of these comments blaming Metro North, I smell a major lawsuit coming.
However, was the engineer speeding? No. Did the warning flashers and gates fail? No. Has there ever been a collision between a train and a vehicle at this location since the railroad came through in the 19th century? Not that I am aware of.
This is the fault of one person - the woman, who apparently was in a rush to get somewhere, got stuck, and according to an eyewitness, made the situation worse by not immediately extricating herself from the impending disaster.
However, was the engineer speeding? No. Did the warning flashers and gates fail? No. Has there ever been a collision between a train and a vehicle at this location since the railroad came through in the 19th century? Not that I am aware of.
This is the fault of one person - the woman, who apparently was in a rush to get somewhere, got stuck, and according to an eyewitness, made the situation worse by not immediately extricating herself from the impending disaster.
24
Yet another example of our woefully inadequate infrastructure.
Isn't it time to take serious actions to cut a huge & wasteful defense budget (and a few other particularly offensive handouts such as $500 per year per man, woman & child in Israel to that unappreciative country) & channel the billions that this would free up to rebuild the backbones of our country.
Isn't it time to take serious actions to cut a huge & wasteful defense budget (and a few other particularly offensive handouts such as $500 per year per man, woman & child in Israel to that unappreciative country) & channel the billions that this would free up to rebuild the backbones of our country.
18
Maybe the idd behavior if car drivers must be changed.
No cell phone use
No talking and driving on a phone
No drinking
No eating
Better driving lessons and instructions
Lower speeds. For trains, I mean all trains. Passenger, freight and oil trains.
It all might help.
No cell phone use
No talking and driving on a phone
No drinking
No eating
Better driving lessons and instructions
Lower speeds. For trains, I mean all trains. Passenger, freight and oil trains.
It all might help.
9
In most cases these accidents can be avoided by stopping at the rail crossing (even when lights aren't flashing) and not proceeding until there is room for your vehicle to completely clear the tracks on the opposite side. Same is true of intersections - no excuse for "blocking the box" . Sometimes a car legitimately becomes stuck on a track, more often it's an impatient driver, or someone stopped in traffic who should have waited rather than driving onto a track behind another car before the other side was clear. It's is a tragedy for all and truly senseless,
55
It sounds like this was a horrible accident just waiting to happen, but that doesn't ease the grief felt by the loved ones of those killed or injured. Metro-North must figure out a way, with the help of experienced engineers, to make that crossing, and all others, safe under all conditions.
That, however, doesn't make that rail system, or any of our many, many miles of rail and subway tracks any safer from something more dangerous - terrorism. There is not ONE baggage screening device at ANY of our country's rail or subway stations. We should follow the example of countries like China where EVERY person has to put his or her baggage - large or small - through a baggage screening device before being allowed to enter the waiting room.
I hope Mr Obama included money for that in his ten-year budget plan.
That, however, doesn't make that rail system, or any of our many, many miles of rail and subway tracks any safer from something more dangerous - terrorism. There is not ONE baggage screening device at ANY of our country's rail or subway stations. We should follow the example of countries like China where EVERY person has to put his or her baggage - large or small - through a baggage screening device before being allowed to enter the waiting room.
I hope Mr Obama included money for that in his ten-year budget plan.
It's amazing that so many people are complaining about infrastructure, grade crossings, road size, visibility etc, etc, when the only cause of this accident was human error. Personal responsibility seems to be something that has fallen by the wayside. There is always somewhere else to place blame, infrastructure, the government, poor design, anywhere but where it belongs, a person and her vehicle, who should not have been where they were.
2
I've just had a look at the crossing via Google Maps. The road in question is a narrow-two lane stretch that also crosses a major parkway only feet away from the railroad crossing. In other words, there are two crossings of major thoroughfares within feet of each other, and only a traffic light and crossing signals separate commuter rail, country roads, and a busy parkway.
In light of the intersection of road, rail, and parkway in such a small space, I wonder if rush-hour traffic prevented the driver of the SUV in question from backing up. Perhaps the driver was simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with no other option but to go forward. When stopped at the crossing, visibility to the left and right (i.e. up and down the tracks) is obscured by a line of trees (i.e. you can't see what, if anything, is coming), which surely complicated matters.
It seems that such a design allows for virtually no room (quite literally) for human error. Regrettably, we are now witness to its consequences.
In light of the intersection of road, rail, and parkway in such a small space, I wonder if rush-hour traffic prevented the driver of the SUV in question from backing up. Perhaps the driver was simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with no other option but to go forward. When stopped at the crossing, visibility to the left and right (i.e. up and down the tracks) is obscured by a line of trees (i.e. you can't see what, if anything, is coming), which surely complicated matters.
It seems that such a design allows for virtually no room (quite literally) for human error. Regrettably, we are now witness to its consequences.
128
The eyewitness quoted in the article stated he backed up to give the S.U.V. room to do the same. Seems like she was completely disoriented.
8
the updated NYT article quotes the driver behind her as saying he backed up, giving her room to do the same.
3
There is room for human error. That's why crossing gates only block half the access on either side - so a car can back out. (1) Getting out of the car and (2) signaling the train to stop are not appropriate responses. That said, and considering that the crossing must meet federal standards (I'm sure it does), it's probably a candidate for elimination or improvement.
1
The crossing gate hitting the car should have caused a red signal for the train. Red signal should have put the train into emergency and caused it to brake. Problem about the crossings would be eliminated if the crossings were raised and train traffic was under the crossing. Problem is these fixes would cost money. We normally closed the barn door after the horse has left. Meaning after the tragedy of something like this we start throwing money at the problem Maybe money needs to be thrown at rail safety before the tragedies happen. In the last year and a half many deaths and injuries at Metro North, once the jewel of railroads. Maybe rail safety should be on the level of airline safety. Metro North was born in 1983 and for thirty years it was the envy of other commuter rail roads. After thirty years maybe the culture of the railroad has grown old and complacent.
5
That depends on how far the gates came down. If they actually came to the end of their travel as they hit the vehicle, then the switches confirming "gate lowered" would have still operated.
A train can not stop that quickly.
1
Yes, truly our infrastructure is a disgrace, with 19th century tracks, grade crossings, rotting bridges, and nothing in sight except more decay of this once most advanced country.
That said, I used to live near the Burlington Northern tracks and commuted for many years. I've seen suicide, a man risking his life to help an idiotic woman who tried to cross in front of a train and slipped, but above all, despicably self-absorbed idiots who risk the life and limbs of others because they are too special to observe the flashing lights. The heart attack and PTSD rates of the conductors in such incidents is very high.
Pure selfishness is what this country is all about now it seems, and now the ripples of grief and trauma from this incident don't bear thinking about. My sympathies are with those dead, injured, and those who love them.
That said, I used to live near the Burlington Northern tracks and commuted for many years. I've seen suicide, a man risking his life to help an idiotic woman who tried to cross in front of a train and slipped, but above all, despicably self-absorbed idiots who risk the life and limbs of others because they are too special to observe the flashing lights. The heart attack and PTSD rates of the conductors in such incidents is very high.
Pure selfishness is what this country is all about now it seems, and now the ripples of grief and trauma from this incident don't bear thinking about. My sympathies are with those dead, injured, and those who love them.
20
To put a little perspective on this tragedy, in the time it has taken me to read all I have so far read about this accident, statistically at least 3 more people have died in car accidents not involving a train. Will those make national headlines?
No, and it is because passenger trains are remarkably safe for their occupants that this story even exists for me at the other side of the continent.
No, and it is because passenger trains are remarkably safe for their occupants that this story even exists for me at the other side of the continent.
9
People always trying to run red lights—and in this case railroad crossings—and it's getting worse all over the county. Complete disregard for law. It begins right around high schools and university campuses with young drivers. I've watched it evolve and worsen over the years.
And then at an excruciatingly dangerous railroad crossing, stopping ON THE TRACKS and getting out of the car to see what damage may have been done by the gate closing on the rear of your sport-ute as you ran the red-light-blinking-bell-sounding railroad crossing. Cavalier entitlement and arrogance and compete disregard for law and safety.
Unbelievable, and look at the cost!
And then at an excruciatingly dangerous railroad crossing, stopping ON THE TRACKS and getting out of the car to see what damage may have been done by the gate closing on the rear of your sport-ute as you ran the red-light-blinking-bell-sounding railroad crossing. Cavalier entitlement and arrogance and compete disregard for law and safety.
Unbelievable, and look at the cost!
14
"Mr. Astorino said that the crash appeared to be the S.U.V. driver’s fault, not the conductor’s."
Amidst tragedy and confusion, Times editor please note that it is the engineer who drives the train, not the conductor.
Amidst tragedy and confusion, Times editor please note that it is the engineer who drives the train, not the conductor.
8
I'm wondering if most commenting even read the article? Lots of condemnation of the Metro when it was clearly stated the accident was the fault of the SUV. Vehicles get hit by trains on a regular basis all over the country and the cause is usually the driver of the vehicle not heeding the signals.
100
Intersections and signals need to be designed to reduce the possibility (and lessen the consequences) of operator error. We can all get confused and do stupid things: ideally the punishment is not death.
1
Public safety requires structures that allow for the worst scenarios, the poorest judgment of randon citizens. These days, most people fail to use their turn signals, let alone understand rail crossing protocols !
1
I read the article, and I don't see where it was clearly stated that the crash was the fault of the SUV, except by Rob Astorino in an indirect quote. I can just as clearly conjecture that the crossing gate malfunctioned!
In any event, I support Mr. Schumer's responsible statement:
"At this early stage, it is premature to point any fingers of blame. . .'
In any event, I support Mr. Schumer's responsible statement:
"At this early stage, it is premature to point any fingers of blame. . .'
1
So the SUV driver got out to see if the crossing gate that he was running put a ding on his car? What did he think the train was going to do to it?
37
I think it was a she.
10
I believe the SUV driver got out to see if the crossing guard is what was preventing her from being able to drive her car forward.
2
The strange thing is she still had room... After getting out of her car THEN she drove DIRECTLY in front if the train. Bizarre.
6
I will continue to wait for room on the other side of the tracks before entering a railroad crossing.
35
People are human. They make mistakes. They get confused. They panic. They don't always see the big picture in the dark, on an unfamiliar road, etc. The reason we have safety devices is to prevent ordinary human mistakes from being fatal. Gates that come down a minute earlier than the current ones and totally block the roadway seem like a less expensive solution than eliminating all grade crossings. And while we're at it, how about glass doors as they have in Japan to prevent people from being pushed off of subway platforms.
42
Yep we all try to beat the gates at rail crossings which is obviously what happened here.....there are flashing warning lights before the gate comes down!! ....then we stop on the tracks, get out to check damage if the gate clipped us.... it's an entirely human thing to do...of course how could anyone think otherwise.
11
I totally agree. I don't know why our subway systems aren't like airTrans at airports - enclosed completely and the trains come to dock at a specific point where the glass doors slide open. It would be hugely expensive but well worth it. Vehicles of that weight moving at even a moderate speed at approach to the station are weapons.
How about not trying to beat the flashing lights before the gates come down. There's ample warnings that there is a train coming and that the gates will be coming down. I've seen it numerous times when the impatience of drivers produces very dangerous choices.
2
I was on the train, on the second car, and I don't know much more than anyone here regarding the details of the crash. The conductor announced about 5 minutes after the accident that we hit a car,. By that time everyone had already started walking towards the rear of the train. Considering, all the passengers were as calm as they can be.. since we were towards the front, we started to panic, at least me, after starting to smell the gas and they asked us to take out the fire extinguisher. The passengers who jumped out from the emergency wondows started running along the train and told us that the train was on fire.. At that point a few of us jumped out from the emergency exit as soon as we reached it, but a lot of the passengers especially those towards the back of the train remained in the train. I'm so sorry for the lives lost and am thankful. I'm still shaking.
261
I'm in another state, reading about this accident after hearing the news on the radio, and I am thankful you and your fellow passengers got safely off the train. You set an good example for everyone by withholding judgment and not jumping to conclusions about the cause or responsibility for the crash.
25
Very true, glad you were wise and fine. This is so sad, but why try crossing the tracks in the first place? If she got out at first to check her car, why not backed up? She would of been alive and the others too!
1
So glad you're okay. Thanks for sharing.
We need to rebuild and re-design our national infrastructure to bring it up to modern standards. At our office lunch table, I once half-jokingly proposed a Constitutional Amendment that we spend 10% of federal and state budgets on rebuilding AND maintaining our infrastructure, including schools, airports, parks, adding mass transit for dense urban areas, etc. I was a bit surprised when both liberals and conservatives of our contentious group agreed.
60
But that would mean less money for the TSA! You know, the ones in blue who grope us at the airport, the "pretend" cops, who believe what they do protects air travelers from terrorists. We just can't take money away from them to do something that really would make us safer and healthier.
2
From day 1 Obama has had infrastructure on his priorities and budget but REPOUBLICANS always slash and burn.
I hope that these tragedies don't continue to happen but I'm afraid they will if we don't do something. What will it take for Republicans to do the humane thing and build up our country instead of tearing it down to sell for scrap to the wealthy for privatization?
I hope that these tragedies don't continue to happen but I'm afraid they will if we don't do something. What will it take for Republicans to do the humane thing and build up our country instead of tearing it down to sell for scrap to the wealthy for privatization?
2
The 10% idea is great. Jobs for the Democrats, profits for the Republicans.
1
I can see my grandchildren in another room with a cheap wireless baby camera but trains remain totally unaware of the condition at a crossing? This all too common type of accident is one hundred percent preventable.
32
You don't understand how railroad signaling works. To stop a train from 60 mph takes a half mile. If the technology you describe were installed, and the system warned the train engineer to hit the brakes every time some bonehead a half mile ahead drives around the crossing gates, the train would never get above 20 mph and the trip to Northeast would take 3 hours.
The only way this situation would approach 100 percent preventable would be to grade separate the road and tracks. Even then, people sometimes drive off the bridge and hit the tracks.
The only way this situation would approach 100 percent preventable would be to grade separate the road and tracks. Even then, people sometimes drive off the bridge and hit the tracks.
5
The condition at a crossing can change in an instant...like a car driver deciding to cross onto the tracks even though traffic might be stalled. It's like drivers sitting in the middle of an intersection even though there's no room to go anywhere. We need to educate people...Danger! You will possibly die if you sit on the train tracks in traffic.
It's very hard to stop a train in time to prevent an accident. Crossing arms would have to be down several minutes before the train arrived in order for your idea to work.
3
The New Haven line has overpasses/underpasses for motor vehicles. Why not on the Harlem line?
19
The railroad goes right through the town and the crossing is really well marked. I guess many people have no experience with these crossings. It is very narrow there. You never enter the crossing when the gates are coming down, EVER! And you do not sit on the railroad tracks for any reason. What a tragedy.
4
I am very familiar with this crossing as I am with several other crossings in Westchester County...Virginia Road, the Reader's Digest light, Green Lane, Jay Street in Katonah... You would be surprised that there are people that have no idea that you can't even enter the tracks unless there is complete room for you on the other side to go over to. EVER!
I hope the press, from the NYTimes to the local newspapers and television channel, use this as an opportunity to review what some of us learned in Drivers' Ed. Especially the crossing in Katonah. You can stand there for ten minutes and you will see drivers who do not understand how that intersection works. That ignorance has caused drivers to stop on the tracks with cars ahead and behind them--stuck if the warning lights started to flash. We have been lucky that the gates haven't come down on someone there. It is also right near the station so is less likely to be as dangerous as the Commerce St. crossing.
Please let's learn from this incident. Let's learn how to drive through RR crossings safely.
I hope the press, from the NYTimes to the local newspapers and television channel, use this as an opportunity to review what some of us learned in Drivers' Ed. Especially the crossing in Katonah. You can stand there for ten minutes and you will see drivers who do not understand how that intersection works. That ignorance has caused drivers to stop on the tracks with cars ahead and behind them--stuck if the warning lights started to flash. We have been lucky that the gates haven't come down on someone there. It is also right near the station so is less likely to be as dangerous as the Commerce St. crossing.
Please let's learn from this incident. Let's learn how to drive through RR crossings safely.
102
I have enough conscious fear of getting stuck on train tracks to assess unfamiliar crossings and try to figure out where to stop in order to make sure I won't end up stuck on the tracks, but I have to say that many crossings are confusing. If there are traffic lights nearby, they ought to be coordinated with the gates, so that drivers have only one, coordinated system of signals to follow. (I know crossings in NJ, for example, with multiple lights around the crossings.) That would take some amount of technological feedback, in order to make sure that light cycles take into account whether there is room for a vehicle with a green light to fit on the road once it has crossed the tracks at a particular time. I realize that the reported facts in this case indicate that this was not the issue here, since it has been reported that the driver tried to cross the tracks well after the gate came down (would the car have been safe staying where it was with the gate on its tail?), but maybe this terrible event gives us an impetus to make the crossings more foolproof.
2
This accident happened in a line of cars moving slowly over the tracks. Because it was so congested, the Jeep driver should not have passed the open gate until there was enough room to completely cross the tracks, and then compounded their driving mistake by trying to accelerate across when room opened up on the other side.
3
If trains still had cowcatchers, maybe they would scoop up cars & carry them along until they could come to a safe stop.
15
Lots of dynamics are different from the old days.
Cowcatchers didn't 'scoop up' preserve the cows, or the vehicles. They were meant to decrease damage to the trains. Anything they hit would be demolished. As Sancho Panza said, whether the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it's going to be bad for the pitcher.
Back in the days of cowcatchers, cars were much smaller, and a train smashing into a Model T would do a lot less damage to the train. As for the flivver, see Sancho's explanation.
Perhaps most importantly, those old-fashioned trains were powered by coal. Coal doesn't explode the way fuel does.
Cowcatchers didn't 'scoop up' preserve the cows, or the vehicles. They were meant to decrease damage to the trains. Anything they hit would be demolished. As Sancho Panza said, whether the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it's going to be bad for the pitcher.
Back in the days of cowcatchers, cars were much smaller, and a train smashing into a Model T would do a lot less damage to the train. As for the flivver, see Sancho's explanation.
Perhaps most importantly, those old-fashioned trains were powered by coal. Coal doesn't explode the way fuel does.
The 60 mph impact would likely have destroyed the car and compromised the fuel tank. The consequences would have been the same.
In any event, the purpose of the deflector is to prevent derailment, not the protection of the object being deflected (which the energy of a 60 mph impact would likely have destroyed).
In any event, the purpose of the deflector is to prevent derailment, not the protection of the object being deflected (which the energy of a 60 mph impact would likely have destroyed).
1
There were so many factors at play in this tragedy. After reading many comments, the only thing that's clear is that it's too soon to assign total blame. The car on the tracks was the proximate cause, but in addition to human error at a grade level crossing, there were also dark icy roads, snaking traffic detouring slowly from another accident, tricky crossing parallel to the Taconic, fast crossing bars. These will be investigated, but what may remain unknown is the reason for the driver's actions: confusion at an unfamiliar location, misguided concern to prevent an accident, or just plain folly? It was horrible misjudgment, with tragic consequences, but contributing factors deserve serious review, with an eye towards preventing similar horrific events.
27
"it's too soon to assign total blame."
Did the crossing have reflective signs and properly working signals and gate?
If so, and the driver had followed the basic driving rules published in the Drivers Manual, there would have been no accident. Don't get onto any train tracks when you don't have sufficient clearance to fully cross when the crossing lights are off.
Did the crossing have reflective signs and properly working signals and gate?
If so, and the driver had followed the basic driving rules published in the Drivers Manual, there would have been no accident. Don't get onto any train tracks when you don't have sufficient clearance to fully cross when the crossing lights are off.
2
'...There were so many factors at play in this tragedy...'
There are only two. A driver who moved into a railroad crossing without being able to clear the other side and then, instead of immediately backing up when the gates came down, drove forward into the path of the train.
Nothing else caused this accident and nothing done would have prevented it.
There are only two. A driver who moved into a railroad crossing without being able to clear the other side and then, instead of immediately backing up when the gates came down, drove forward into the path of the train.
Nothing else caused this accident and nothing done would have prevented it.
The outrage over this crash just goes to show how safe rail travel really is, as this is a very rare occurrence and therefore big news. Had it been a car-on-car collision with 7 deaths, it would have barely made the local papers.
64
This mash up of car and rail car will continue to happen as long as roads continue to cross railroad tracks,
22
or, more likely, as long as motorists try to play "beat the clock" and go through descending gates because they don't want to wait for a passing train, as was the case, here.
55
As a long time driver in Japan, it maybe prudent to point out at railroad crossings a driver must make a full stop before proceeding. It is the law and is strictly enforced; sometimes with surveillance cameras especially at high traffic crossings. That extra caution may prevent a horrible accident from occurring and keep everyone accountable for their actions or mishaps. Throwing caution to the wind maybe judicious in saving lives.
41
Have you been to a crossing in the metro north area?
I live 3 minutes from a mta crossing about an hour and a half North of the city, if every car on my road had to stop at the railroad there would be perpetual gridlock for miles.
This was just a dumb driver.
I live 3 minutes from a mta crossing about an hour and a half North of the city, if every car on my road had to stop at the railroad there would be perpetual gridlock for miles.
This was just a dumb driver.
12
After reading all 203 comments, the following seem to be more likely to be true than not: 1) it's a crossing that is NOT 90 degrees, and does not have excellent visibility; 2) it was dark out; 3) traffic in the area was unusually heavy, due to a nearby accident on a major road; 4) the heavy traffic was moving slowly across the tracks, and there was no one directing traffic; 5) the vehicle driver stopped within the area where the crossing gate came down, and the gate impacted the rear of the vehicle; 6) the driver got out of the vehicle and went to the back of the vehicle; and 7) after an unknown amount of time, the driver got back into the vehicle, attempted to move the vehicle forward 8) the vehicle failed to move forward far enough to clear the track and was struck by the train.
Things that remain unclear: How long was the vehicle in its position before the gate impacted its rear? When the driver went to the back of the vehicle, was she checking for damage, attempting to move the gate so as to free the vehicle, or both? How long did she remain out of the car? Did she get back in instead of running away because she was trying to save the car or was she attempting to prevent the crash so as to prevent death and destruction?
It seems fairly likely that this was not a classic "car speeding to beat a descending gate" crossing accident. Human error can occur in relatively slow motion. May the dead rest in peace and the injured heal quickly.
Things that remain unclear: How long was the vehicle in its position before the gate impacted its rear? When the driver went to the back of the vehicle, was she checking for damage, attempting to move the gate so as to free the vehicle, or both? How long did she remain out of the car? Did she get back in instead of running away because she was trying to save the car or was she attempting to prevent the crash so as to prevent death and destruction?
It seems fairly likely that this was not a classic "car speeding to beat a descending gate" crossing accident. Human error can occur in relatively slow motion. May the dead rest in peace and the injured heal quickly.
149
Yes, it appears that snaking traffic left one driver either sitting in or inching into in a very dangerous position between the gates.
7
Yesterday trains were running 10 mins late due to signal problems. You need to include that in your summary.
5
Bad mistake by the SUV driver - not just in hindsight. If traffic is snaking slowly - even stopping at times - you cannot enter the area of the train tracks until it is ensured that you can fully cross it (i.e.; enough space has been cleared on the opposite side, between the tracks and the vehicle in front of you). You must stop before the tracks zone until that space is available. If not, wait, and even let the crossing gate come down in front of you (you of course wait outside the train tracks). That is the rule over here (and I would think worldwide). It ist common sense of course. And not just because it is the law, but because not following it quailfies you for the Darwin Award above all. It is sad that so many people stop thinking when driving - and stop using common sense. As always with avoidable accidents, we have to feel sorry for the lives lost - the driver's and the innocent train passengers'.
41
Over the past few years, I have officiated a number of times at the Sharon Garden Cemetery, which is about 100 feet from this tragic crash site. As someone who does not live in the Valhalla area, I was always concerned when it came to crossing this train crossing in order to get onto the Taconic Parkway. The Taconic parkway and the train line are parallel to each other, with the entrance to the Parkway cutting across the train line. For someone not familiar with the windy roads at this crossing, it can be quite confusing. Each time I had to cross this crossing, I made sure that I either was following a car that knew the area, or I had someone who knew the area in the car with me. I found this crossing confusing during the morning hours. I can only imagine the confusion one faces at this crossing when it is pitch dark outside. My heart goes out to all the families who lost loved ones in this most tragic event.
Rabbi Yossi Newfield
Brooklyn, NY
Rabbi Yossi Newfield
Brooklyn, NY
375
i grew up right near here. it may be confusing, but traffic rules state that one does not stop on the tracks. ever. if traffic were bad, she should have waited to cross until there was enough clearance, and left room for the arm.
it's like not blocking the box, only with much more serious consequences.
whether you know an area or not. if the roads or dark. or icy. or winding. no one should ever, EVER, stop on the train tracks.
it's like not blocking the box, only with much more serious consequences.
whether you know an area or not. if the roads or dark. or icy. or winding. no one should ever, EVER, stop on the train tracks.
3
If a driver is 'confused' at when the lights flash and the gates go down at a railroad crossing, which happens a few minutes before the train arrives, they should not be driving.
1
Rabbi, do you think lighting was a factor? Would additional lighting at the crossing help drivers navigate it?
Federalize. Let somebody competent run it.
12
The ABSOLUTE last thing you should do is to "Federalize" Metro-North. What you will get is another institution like the FTA, FAA and FRA filled with politically connected amateurs. Try to get a job with these Federal Agencies without a political connection; it just won't happen. What needs to happen is to create a Commission consisting of industry and academic professionals to "audit" Metro-North and develop a corrective action plan not subject to political interference by Cuomo or his lackeys like Tom Prendergast.
9
Oh Yeah. AMTRAK is so competent. One of the biggest money losers the Feds operate. The MTA is not at fault here.
2
How is this one the fault of Metro North Railroad?
7
Metro-North is a raggedy train. Period. They put no money into safety or upgrades and try to get by on as little as possible while charging its customers an arm and a leg.
Kudos to Cuomo for showing up.
Pro-tip: On trains, planes, and buses, try not to ride in the front. Those usually always get the most impact in an accident
Kudos to Cuomo for showing up.
Pro-tip: On trains, planes, and buses, try not to ride in the front. Those usually always get the most impact in an accident
20
I never ride in the front car, and am never tempted into first class on planes for the very same reason. Trains should always deliberately keep the first car empty. Allowing customers to sit there should not even be an option.
4
What difference, safety-wise, does it make on a plane whether you sit to the front, middle or back?
The solution to preventing future tragedies of this sort is simple; place all rail crossings above or below the tracks. Oh, that would cost billions? Well, the Pentagon has plenty of that. Instead of wasting those billions on blowing up people and buildings in the Middle East and elsewhere, why not spend them on infrastructure improvements in the United States? Why can't we have the type of rail system that the Japanese and Europeans have?
146
Because Americans like to drive cars.
13
B:
Because America is a very, very big country.
Because America is a very, very big country.
8
Because Republicans and oil industry propagandists love to tell Americans about the rights and freedoms of car ownership.
31
This is a terrible tragedy.
12
For the six people on the train who died, it is a tragedy.
For the woman driving the Jeep, the word tragedy does not apply.
For the woman driving the Jeep, the word tragedy does not apply.
2
I can`t express all my emotions...I feel really sad for those who died in this horrible accident. Many details are still unknown but the problem is in outdated infrastructure and we can`t ignore human factor. Why did this driver try to cross paths with train? Everybody should follow strict rules especially when you are behind the wheel of a deadly vehicle. It`s a matter of life and death!
9
I know that line well and it's long been an accident waiting to happen. As have all the other busy commuter railways which, in this year 2015, still rely on the grade crossings that were more-or-less suitable in 1915. They badly need what a notorious stretch of the Long Island Railroad finally got after some notably horrific mishaps (followed by notably big verdicts): overpasses. (Actually, that LIRR line - the Babylon division - had SO many grade crossings that they finally turned it into a sort of 'super-el', with long-needed high-level station platforms. The upper Harlem Metro-North line, by contrast, will just need a few overpasses.) So why the eternal reluctance to do the right thing? They can afford the extremely expensive deep LIRR tunnel from 63rd Street to Grand Central, but can't eliminate a few bad crossings? Bonkers.
37
There are probably thousands of railroad crossings in the US, most of which has flashing lights and gates that come down minutes before the train arrives, but if a driver decides to rush the gate when there is no room on the other side, there is nothing that can be done.
1
When I was learning to drive, I was taught to NEVER stop on train tracks. EVER. And this is why. Really, it's ok to wait for the train to pass before progressing; five extra minutes in the commute isn't a big deal when weighed with these consequences.
59
And, even if you're not hit by a train, you might be hit by the $250 fine for stopping your car on train tracks.
7
Most understand that. Let's just hope she wasn't forced to the spot on the track by backed up traffic caused by a red light or accident further ahead. Either way, the wise thing to do would probably be to wait before the track to make sure you had room on the other side before trying to cross.
4
Amen.
1
I have been of an opinion that such accidents happen only in Third World. It's a sign of coming times that symbolizes the fast downward spiral of this great nation with ageing infrastructure and politicians totally disconnected from the real world.
38
Aging infrastructure was irrelevant. It was completely human error, and very tragic error at that.
24
Ageing infrastructure IS relevant. The gate at that crossing combined with the very confusing road combined, was a disaster waiting to happen. I've drive there many times, and its definitely horse and buggy territory friendly, but woefully inadequate when cars and big trains must cross paths. So, yes, infrastructure is completely relevant.
2
Yes, sad but true.
1
America is so advanced in many ways - except for its rail systems. A single, simple switch can place so many lives in peril. Why not put the same cameras that are used to monitor traffic (and that are used to issue speeding fines), at each junction?? Why not put the same "electric eye" used on garage door openers sold by Sears to keep the gate from closing on a car?? If any sensor fails, the train is not allowed to go at full speed through the crossing.
The headquarters of IBM is only a few miles away from this accident. Why not have them design a flawless system?? Or Apple?? America spends millions trying to find a downed plane, or to rescue stranded hikers, or sending their armored vehicles to Afghanistan (and then leaving them there). Why not a few million on preventing the next accident like this??
The executives at Metro-North are exceedingly overpaid. Sorry America, but that is the truth. THINK!!
The headquarters of IBM is only a few miles away from this accident. Why not have them design a flawless system?? Or Apple?? America spends millions trying to find a downed plane, or to rescue stranded hikers, or sending their armored vehicles to Afghanistan (and then leaving them there). Why not a few million on preventing the next accident like this??
The executives at Metro-North are exceedingly overpaid. Sorry America, but that is the truth. THINK!!
16
Because a garage door is easier to stop than a train with huge mass. No amount of sensors would prevent this.
21
That same electric eye that would open the gate in the case of a car stuck on the track might also open the gate for another car to come on to the track, no?
1
Have you any idea how long it takes to stop a train at any speed? Moving mass of hundreds of tons doesn't stop on a dime.
4
In the land of the future either bridges or tunnels will be employed such that cars and trains NEVER cross the same surface.
7
Is there an on going capital improvement plan in place to eliminate all grade crossings on Metro-Noth? This would be preferable...or more "in your face" signage for motorists. The driver of the SUV obviously cared more about her car getting hurt by the crossing gates than they did getting smucked by a train. Darwinian award for the driver but the problem is the driver had to take out other innocents as well.
14
This tragedy was avoidable if the driver of said vehicle had used his head and not try to outrun the obvious warning signal already in place. I see many accidents near where I live where drivers are unwilling to wait for the best opportunity to make a turn into oncoming traffic to save a few second of time and have a avoidable accident. The driver should have had everyone exit the SUV as a precaution.
7
@carl99e .."The driver of the vehicle and six people on the train were killed, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said after touring the scene late Tuesday." Sounds like the others killed were on the train.
12
The driver of the vehicle was the only person in the vehicle.
8
Personally I find this curious:
"According to preliminary information, the gates at the crossing came down on top of the S.U.V., which had stopped on the tracks, Mr. Donovan said. The driver got out of the vehicle to look at the rear of the car, then got back in and drove forward. Then the vehicle was struck, he said."
There was an eyewitness who observed this?
Also, the crossing gates hit your car and are now down, so you stop your vehicle on the tracks and get out and take a look? Hello? No one could possibly be that stupid ...unless they were really drunk or high on drugs.
"According to preliminary information, the gates at the crossing came down on top of the S.U.V., which had stopped on the tracks, Mr. Donovan said. The driver got out of the vehicle to look at the rear of the car, then got back in and drove forward. Then the vehicle was struck, he said."
There was an eyewitness who observed this?
Also, the crossing gates hit your car and are now down, so you stop your vehicle on the tracks and get out and take a look? Hello? No one could possibly be that stupid ...unless they were really drunk or high on drugs.
28
Yes, yes they can be this stupid, unfortunately.
15
@ Len. Yes, people can be that stupid. I see people in a hurry make stupid decisions in traffic every day to save five minutes (illegal u-turns, passing on the right, weaving, tailgating, running red lights - some times, here, two or three cars will go through a red light if they have had to wait in a line of traffic - irresponsibly changing lanes, backing down exit ramps, traveling in emergency lanes, and, trying to beat trains.) I would say this one was intentional, except for the fact that the driver got out to check the condition of his car after the gate came down on it. No one trying to commit suicide would go check on their car. Not sure about the timing when gates come down before train arrives, but, the driver probably stupidly got stuck on the tracks in traffic before he could see the train. Or maybe, his car "died" on the tracks and he couldn't move it. I guess I might have just left the car on the tracks in that situation.
5
News 12 interviewed the driver whose car was directly behind the Jeep's.
He saw the Jeep driver get out of her SUV just as is reported in the article.
He saw the Jeep driver get out of her SUV just as is reported in the article.
18
It was not always the case that every calamity was reported with an obligatory comment by a politician. It shows how much more pervasive government is in our lives when politicians are treated as if they are religious leaders.
7
How can we eliminate all grade crossings? Just have one prominent, very influential person lose a loved one in a tragedy like this and you would be amazed how much red tape can be cut through to resolve the problem. Until that happens, readers will write about such crazy concepts as "cost effectiveness." Let the Governor's two teenagers perish or let a gazillionair's relative perish, and there is no discussion. Change happens when a powerful person experiences a personal loss so needlessly. Very sad. Every life matters to the friends and family who lose someone because of grade crossings.
16
This incident suggests that it is high time to confront the country's infrastructure that's in need to serious updates. Obama is pressing for new tax measures to fund such initiatives, and whether the two sides agree or not something needs to be worked out to address the situation and avoid similar fatalities.
9
Yes because we can't rely on personal responsibility. This wasn't an infrastructure issue. This accident was the result of an inattentive driver who broke the law.
5
Seven people died because of outdated infrastructure in the face of human frailty. My heart goes out to their families.
11
What's outdated about gates coming down and lights flashing when there's a train coming? I'll give you the human frailty part – pathetic human frailty, in the form of murderous human error.
32
More to the point- Seven people died not because of infrastructure defects but because a mindless driver stopped his car on the tracks. There is a reason this particularly dangerous act is against the law.
40
Yes, it is very outdated infrastructure, and thus this was a needless tragedy. I grew up and Long Island, and level crossings were a part of daily life (and a nuisance). I never thought things could be different until I lived in the UK and traveled around Europe. The uk, france and other European countries have spent tons of money over decades ti eliminate level crossings, through the use of overpasses, tunnels, etc. They haven't got rid of all of them, but most, especially in the commuter suburbs, are gone. It not only saves lives, but improves traffic flow, train signalling, etc. Yes, it's a costly upgrade, but over the long run it pays off. The US can afford to make the upgrade, but of course won't, because trains are communist.
14
For what it's worth this is the French approach: http://www.securite-passageaniveau.fr/la-politique-de-rff/ 1/ Suppress the most dangerous crossings by creating a tunnel or overpass 2/ Modify crossings to force improvement in car driver behavior 3/ Suppress little used crossings by eliminiating the road 4/ More and better driver instruction 5/ Put in radars at crossings so bad driver behavior is punished 6/ Put in new equipment 7/ Don't create any new crossings
38
While all facts about this horrible collision are not yet known, it seems reasonable to suspect the driver tried to beat the train.
I have two thoughts:
Put a camera at the crossing that would record drivers crossing when the warning lights are flashing. There are cameras to catch drivers going thru red lights so this should be feasible.
Change the motor vehicle laws so it is required that every vehicle stop momentarily before the crossing whether warning lights are flashing or not.
I believe school buses are required to do this and one sees signs on some trucks that they stop at crossings. It should not be a problem to require EVERY vehicle to stop.
Yes this might cause a slight delay but it would largely prevent horrible events like this one.
I have two thoughts:
Put a camera at the crossing that would record drivers crossing when the warning lights are flashing. There are cameras to catch drivers going thru red lights so this should be feasible.
Change the motor vehicle laws so it is required that every vehicle stop momentarily before the crossing whether warning lights are flashing or not.
I believe school buses are required to do this and one sees signs on some trucks that they stop at crossings. It should not be a problem to require EVERY vehicle to stop.
Yes this might cause a slight delay but it would largely prevent horrible events like this one.
9
Slow down there. I live right between two crossings on either end of my street. One is in the dead center of our little, but busy, town. People often find themselves unexpectedly stopped on the tracks when the light down the street goes red and it's rush hour. They get trapped. I see it regularly. If you have ever unintentionally "blocked the box", you know how this happens. There are other ways to get into trouble at those crossings than trying to beat the train.
11
Or just build an overpass an eliminate the problem once and for all... it's a one time investment.
9
indie:
Shouldn't you just stop before the tracks, even in a long stream of sitting traffic?
Shouldn't you just stop before the tracks, even in a long stream of sitting traffic?
25
There is a patented technology that was offered to the Federal Railroad Administration back in 2006 that was turned aside with the comment that "we don't worry about train collisions as we can just route train traffic around them." Truly enlightened thinking!
15
I was on that train. I hold Metro North 100 percent accountable. The Fourth Estate needs to investigate Metro North and the NTSB's and NYS's oversight of Metro North. Please. The crossings should be "idiot proof." The equipment needs to be the best and trains need to be fully staffed. The infrastructure needs to be improved. Seven people are dead. The passengers on that train saved themselves. I got out because of the actions of fellow passengers. The public hasn't anywhere to turn but to the press. Please report and investigate and report and investigate until the authorities and the public act. Please. Sharon Swados
409
"The infrastructure needs to be improved."
***
You have obviously suffered a tremendous shock. An investigation will uncover exactly what happened. Thank goodness for the heroism of those passengers.
Evacuations need to be better addressed. Unfortunately, eliminating crossings is unlikely to happen given the difficulties that already exist funding transportation projects in NYS (ex., Tappan Zee Bridge).
***
You have obviously suffered a tremendous shock. An investigation will uncover exactly what happened. Thank goodness for the heroism of those passengers.
Evacuations need to be better addressed. Unfortunately, eliminating crossings is unlikely to happen given the difficulties that already exist funding transportation projects in NYS (ex., Tappan Zee Bridge).
5
None of us readers can know how responsibility should be assigned. What I do know, given the daily statements by political figures that regulation is not needed, is that the only way that infrastructure will be improved is if politicians support regulation meeting the levels seen in other countries and if these same politicians understand that infrastructure must be maintained continously.
The absence of such beliefs on the part of politicians I need not name ensures that neither your nor my recommendations have much of chance of being implemented.
Your first-hand report is much appreciated and the same for the help you got from your fellow passengers. Many readers point to technologies already in use in other places. I note this because I think the Times could make a significant contribution by following up with a careful comparison of the system in place at this crossing compared with the best systems elsewhere, whether in the US or in other countries.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
The absence of such beliefs on the part of politicians I need not name ensures that neither your nor my recommendations have much of chance of being implemented.
Your first-hand report is much appreciated and the same for the help you got from your fellow passengers. Many readers point to technologies already in use in other places. I note this because I think the Times could make a significant contribution by following up with a careful comparison of the system in place at this crossing compared with the best systems elsewhere, whether in the US or in other countries.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
4
¿Adding technology solutions to prevent rail grade crossing accidents would cost trillions in the US? Come on, do the math: there are only 212,000 of them.
1
I hope the dead driver's automobile insurance is liable to cover the dead and injured on the train. What a totally avoidable tragedy by a driver with terrible judgment... and distractions? With luck forensics will figure that out.
32
What distractions? Is was reported by eye witnesses that the driver got out of her car and checked to see if it was damaged.....then she proceeded, after seeing the train coming to speed up.
What a relief her vehicle wasn't damaged, due to her actions now it's totalled and she murdered 6 innocent people.
What a relief her vehicle wasn't damaged, due to her actions now it's totalled and she murdered 6 innocent people.
11
The Jeep owner/driver's insurance will be no were enough to cover 6 dead people and 11 seriously injured people's current medical bills, lost wages, and future medical care for permanent injuries. This is NOT like an airline's plane crash where somebody always pays. When a giant train crashes into a comparatively smaller vehicle the result is usually bad physically, and all of the injured and the dead end up being out of luck for the reason stated in my comment above.
6
The NYS required minimum liability coverage is known as 25/50/10. That is personal injury up to $25,000 per person, limited to $50,000 per accident plus property damage to $10,000. Optional limits of 100/300/50 are common. Any liability above the coverage must be claimed against the owner's assets.
3
I'm again reminded of the profoundly stupid & unfair Federal law putting an absolute cap on the recovery of damages by people injured in a train crash at $200 Million, regardless of how reckless or grossly negligent the person/company employee who caused the crash was
Crash of nearly empty passenger train in Burbank 2005 with about 75 passengers, 1 dead and 10 seriously injured? $200 Million limit
Crash of a jam packed passenger train in Chatsworth, CA in 2008 with 24 passengers dead, 100 seriously injured with paralysis, lost limbs, brain damage? $200 Million limit
Theoretical crash of a jam packed 10 car long passenger train with people standing in the aisles with 100 dead and 200 injured? $200 Million limit
Crashed freight train hauling deadly toxic gases which escape from a crushed tank car or explode & cause a huge fire killing 100 and destroying millions in homes nearby? $200 Million limit
After the 2008 Chatsworth crash former Rep Elton Gallegly tried to get this terrible law changed, to protect passengers of jam packed commuter trains He was stonewalled by the Federal Railroad Board, every freight railway, AMTRAK, crew employers, lobbyists & by Congress
Making things worse Federal Railroad Board (1) doesn't require train passenger seat belts (2) allows the standing of passengers and (3) allows trains to operate in "push" mode where the engine is at the back, killing passengers in front car
Do you passengers on crowded trains understand the huge risk you take?
Crash of nearly empty passenger train in Burbank 2005 with about 75 passengers, 1 dead and 10 seriously injured? $200 Million limit
Crash of a jam packed passenger train in Chatsworth, CA in 2008 with 24 passengers dead, 100 seriously injured with paralysis, lost limbs, brain damage? $200 Million limit
Theoretical crash of a jam packed 10 car long passenger train with people standing in the aisles with 100 dead and 200 injured? $200 Million limit
Crashed freight train hauling deadly toxic gases which escape from a crushed tank car or explode & cause a huge fire killing 100 and destroying millions in homes nearby? $200 Million limit
After the 2008 Chatsworth crash former Rep Elton Gallegly tried to get this terrible law changed, to protect passengers of jam packed commuter trains He was stonewalled by the Federal Railroad Board, every freight railway, AMTRAK, crew employers, lobbyists & by Congress
Making things worse Federal Railroad Board (1) doesn't require train passenger seat belts (2) allows the standing of passengers and (3) allows trains to operate in "push" mode where the engine is at the back, killing passengers in front car
Do you passengers on crowded trains understand the huge risk you take?
30
I just heard a New York State official comment on television that the train which crashed usually carries about 650 passengers.
That number makes my point as to why this Federal law which protects negligent, grossly negligent and reckless parties responsible train crashes needs to be repealed or substantially amended force the party who caused the accident to compensate the injured and the families of the dead for AT LEAST their actual damages, i.e. lost wages, medical bills at time of train crash, future medical bills. In the infamous 2008 Chatsworth, CA crash there was so little money available under the $200 Million limit many seriously permanently injured people didn't even receive enough money to cover their medical bills.
That number makes my point as to why this Federal law which protects negligent, grossly negligent and reckless parties responsible train crashes needs to be repealed or substantially amended force the party who caused the accident to compensate the injured and the families of the dead for AT LEAST their actual damages, i.e. lost wages, medical bills at time of train crash, future medical bills. In the infamous 2008 Chatsworth, CA crash there was so little money available under the $200 Million limit many seriously permanently injured people didn't even receive enough money to cover their medical bills.
3
Yes - drivers do need to be more careful and crossings need to be safer. But we could easily do away with even that need if we built better infrastructure that was inherently safer.
Japan's bullet trains (Shinkansen) have been operating at 130-200mph since 1964. There has been one fatality (from a door closing accident) and zero from accidents or collisions. Fifty years of operating safely... For those who think the Metro-North incident is not about outdated infrastructure, ponder on that.
Japan's bullet trains (Shinkansen) have been operating at 130-200mph since 1964. There has been one fatality (from a door closing accident) and zero from accidents or collisions. Fifty years of operating safely... For those who think the Metro-North incident is not about outdated infrastructure, ponder on that.
209
Do bullet trains cross roads?
I recently viewed a PBS Independent Lens story (10/27/2014) of a serious train crash in Amagasaki, Japan in 2005 with over 100 deaths. Stringent new safety procedures were put into place.
5
@seattle expat - that's the point... If more thought was put into the overall design of the transit systems, there would be less opportunities for catastrophic accidents.
6
It is a disgrace that commuter railroads still have grade crossings.
Never ride the front or rear car of a train.
Of course there are evacuation problems: modern trains have electrically controlled doors and sealed windows. Come to think of it, so do cars. Be afraid.
Never ride the front or rear car of a train.
Of course there are evacuation problems: modern trains have electrically controlled doors and sealed windows. Come to think of it, so do cars. Be afraid.
31
There is a panel in all the CT trains which you can open to get to a lever that manually opens the doors in case of emergency. I was under the impression it was the same in NY.
1
The amount of fire damage seems large compared to other train collisions I have seen with cars and light trucks.
4
I believe it's probably because the front car was impaled by the electrified third rail. The sheer amount of power would be enough to start a major fire, especially with a fuel-ladened car crushed in front of it.
21
The gates come down well in advance of the train arriving and are timed for a maximum train speed at that location. So, as people drive through lowering crossing gates all the time, they're making a reasonable calculation that they'll not be run down. It's unfortunate to aid people in their reckless behavior, but if she had kept going, she probably would have made it, unless snow or some other obstruction stalled her SUV. The curious thing reported by eyewitnesses is that she inspected her vehicle for damage from the gate then got back in her car and proceeded. Did she mean to put the SUV in reverse, or was she really being negligent?
36
You have assumed that the switch was working. Best to wait for the investigation...
2
So sad. I live in Japan which is as densely populated as NYC and has gobs of rail crossings and an impeccable safety record. Many rail crossings are set up in a way that if a car is in the vicinity of the tracks when the lights are flashing, it will cause oncoming trains to brake automatically. When riding the train, I occasionally will feel a slight jerk and the conductor will apologize for the automatic braking due to somebody trying to rush across a level crossing. While it seems the driver was at fault in this case, a little updated technology wouldn't hurt.
666
I agree with Timmy. i have been here in Japan for 15 years and am a New Yorker. I am always astonished when returning yearly to NY and marvel at how nothing has been done to improve rail service or its signals after all these supposed monies have spent. But on what? This would be a national scandal with mass dismissals (or suicides) in Japan and I am not at all sorry to see the back of the MTA or of the Metro North. (Born in Queens and father lives in Rye, NY)
38
On the other hand, we give much needed succor to our many billionaires by keeping their taxes at minimal levels. It is sad to see countries like Japan unwilling to sacrifice the lives of ordinary citizens in order to protect the fortunes of the ultra rich.
11
All it takes is the political will to fund our trains. Sadly for the majority of voters, we have too many politicians who are paid by opponents of mass transit. Boston is a prime example of a city with woefully out-of-date transit.
15
I'll save the condolences as people have already said everything that I could possibly say, which is that it was terrible that people died, which it is, and that we should feel for their loved ones, which I do. Rather, I'd like to get straight to the point: The accident is 100% the fault of the SUV driver, and I'll explain why.
To begin, is a little lesson on train physics, which is something I did a school project on. Trains, which we watch and admire at a usually safe distance, weigh variably depending on the type of train. For passenger trains, you're looking at 100,000 pounds per car. A freight train? Try 200,000 pounds. The locomotive? Try a minimum of 500,000 pounds! And, consider the weight of a ten-car passenger train, or a hundred-car, try-engined freight train, and the physics become startling clear. In comparison, even a fully loaded semi weighs less than a passenger train car by itself. If you've ever seen video of a semi being hit by a train, you'll see them disintegrate like toys.
(Continued in Replies)
To begin, is a little lesson on train physics, which is something I did a school project on. Trains, which we watch and admire at a usually safe distance, weigh variably depending on the type of train. For passenger trains, you're looking at 100,000 pounds per car. A freight train? Try 200,000 pounds. The locomotive? Try a minimum of 500,000 pounds! And, consider the weight of a ten-car passenger train, or a hundred-car, try-engined freight train, and the physics become startling clear. In comparison, even a fully loaded semi weighs less than a passenger train car by itself. If you've ever seen video of a semi being hit by a train, you'll see them disintegrate like toys.
(Continued in Replies)
16
To the point; many drivers and people seem clueless about the dangers of trains; such as the woman who lost both legs and had her fingers amputated after a train ran over her as she walked past a stationary train to be hit by a passing train while in a rail yard, and being left in the severely sub-zero temperatures for three hours (hence the fingers). Or, for example, the countless cars and pedestrians hit by trains, including a guy who had barely dodged and crashed his car beating a train, to only die when actually hit by one while pulling the same stunt months later. The point is, is that trains need to be respected, and the fact that it takes more than a country mile for them to stop, highlights the point that, no, they really can't stop, no matter how much the driver wants to.
Now, the reason why the SUV driver is at fault, regardless of how you look at it:
1) Driver races the crossing. Obvious fault in this case.
2) Driver has a failed signal and/or is at unlit/uncontrolled crossing. Sure, that is a good reason to not be aware, but the point is, is that trains are -loud-. They have roaring engines, massive vibrations, screeching wheels and very loud horns. As a good driver, one most -always- stop with about 50 feet from the crossing, roll down the window, and listen. Also, if it's possible, -look-. This will prevent those 'pesky' trains from 'sneaking' up on you. Which brings me to my third point, (Continued)
Now, the reason why the SUV driver is at fault, regardless of how you look at it:
1) Driver races the crossing. Obvious fault in this case.
2) Driver has a failed signal and/or is at unlit/uncontrolled crossing. Sure, that is a good reason to not be aware, but the point is, is that trains are -loud-. They have roaring engines, massive vibrations, screeching wheels and very loud horns. As a good driver, one most -always- stop with about 50 feet from the crossing, roll down the window, and listen. Also, if it's possible, -look-. This will prevent those 'pesky' trains from 'sneaking' up on you. Which brings me to my third point, (Continued)
12
A fully fueled General Electric Genesis P32AC-DM (used on this line) might weigh 275,000 lbs. I ride trains almost every week, and some common locomotives are about 250,000 lbs. your numbers are a bit off.
Also, wouldn't this train be in push configuration? If the lead car was on fire, it sounds like it was a cab car. A locomotive wouldn't likely catch on fire. Those are lighter, but create their own issues. There was a Metrolink collision in LA where the cars derailed in push configuration after crashing into an SUV. They modified the lead cars to be heavier such that they wouldn't derail so easily.
Also, wouldn't this train be in push configuration? If the lead car was on fire, it sounds like it was a cab car. A locomotive wouldn't likely catch on fire. Those are lighter, but create their own issues. There was a Metrolink collision in LA where the cars derailed in push configuration after crashing into an SUV. They modified the lead cars to be heavier such that they wouldn't derail so easily.
6
You may see the trees, but you're missing the forest.
1
You can't run a railroad with political appointees and sweetheart deals.
18
You can't stop on the tracks when you go over a railroad crossing.
41
A car was stopped on the track. Your comment is completely irrelevant. But thanks for attempting to use a tragedy in order to express a political opinion that has no bearing on the situation.
17
Six people burned to deal inside a Metro North railroad car; a crossing gates came down on top of a vehicle which raises questions about the functioning of the gate and the switches connected to it. Railroad car are supposed to be more or less fireproof and switches should stop or warn trains when the gate isn't down.
Less than a year ago the NTSB declared Metro North the most dangerous commuter railroad in America. What part of this is irrelevant; what part of this is a political opinion?
Less than a year ago the NTSB declared Metro North the most dangerous commuter railroad in America. What part of this is irrelevant; what part of this is a political opinion?
10
Rode this train before. R.I.P.
Y'know in Japan, train crossings have emergency buttons that people could push for any emergency on the tracks before the trains come, so the trains are automatically alerted before hitting the train crossing.
Maybe Metro North could implement something like that, preferably in all but especially in the busy train crossings.
Y'know in Japan, train crossings have emergency buttons that people could push for any emergency on the tracks before the trains come, so the trains are automatically alerted before hitting the train crossing.
Maybe Metro North could implement something like that, preferably in all but especially in the busy train crossings.
32
I don't know whether what you say about Japan is true or not, but I do know that in the US, kids would have a lot of fun pushing the buttons and watching all the trains stop.
28
It takes about a mile for a train to stop (depends on speed), so buttons or other notifications from the crossing are not the magical solution so many commenters seem to putting their faith in.
2
Here's what it looks like and a few tips:
http://www.pref.aichi.jp/chiiki-anzen/koutu/gaikoku/english/case.html
If your car stalls on a railroad crossing, take the steps below to let the train operator know about the trouble immediately. Also if you can, put your gear to Neutral and move your car outside the railroad crossing.
- Press the button of the emergency warning unit (mounted on the column of the railroad crossing alarm, etc.).
- Use an emergency flare in your car or other means to let the train operator know that trouble lies ahead.
- When an emergency flare or other means are not available, burn flammables that easily produce smoke near the railroad crossing.
To prevent kids and animals from pushing the emergency button, could put a plastic cover like with some fire alarms. Also, could make it against the law to push the emergency button without an emergency.
http://www.pref.aichi.jp/chiiki-anzen/koutu/gaikoku/english/case.html
If your car stalls on a railroad crossing, take the steps below to let the train operator know about the trouble immediately. Also if you can, put your gear to Neutral and move your car outside the railroad crossing.
- Press the button of the emergency warning unit (mounted on the column of the railroad crossing alarm, etc.).
- Use an emergency flare in your car or other means to let the train operator know that trouble lies ahead.
- When an emergency flare or other means are not available, burn flammables that easily produce smoke near the railroad crossing.
To prevent kids and animals from pushing the emergency button, could put a plastic cover like with some fire alarms. Also, could make it against the law to push the emergency button without an emergency.
1
I think it's premature for anyone to make judgments or draw conclusions regarding the motives and actions of the SUV driver and the vehicle. There are too many unknowns at this time, and it is highly possible we will never know why the SUV was on the tracks at the moment the train was speeding through.
Other than the SUV 'trying to beat the train' as others have suggested, there are other possible reasons for the SUV being on the tracks, one of them being the SUV experienced a mechanical malfunction on the tracks before any gates closed down (assuming there were gates). Perhaps the driver suffered a medical emergency while driving.
At this time, we don't know all the facts other than there are people who died in this horrible accident, and their loved ones are grieving and in pain. And there are many more who survived, and they and their loved ones, though relieved and thankful, are also suffering, knowing others have died.
Other than the SUV 'trying to beat the train' as others have suggested, there are other possible reasons for the SUV being on the tracks, one of them being the SUV experienced a mechanical malfunction on the tracks before any gates closed down (assuming there were gates). Perhaps the driver suffered a medical emergency while driving.
At this time, we don't know all the facts other than there are people who died in this horrible accident, and their loved ones are grieving and in pain. And there are many more who survived, and they and their loved ones, though relieved and thankful, are also suffering, knowing others have died.
26
Not all the facts are reported in this article but other news stations have already interviewed close eyewitnesses, like the driver of the car behind the SUV. The comments that you see about this are not suggesting it as a possibility of what happened, but relating the information from what has been reported.
Several eyewitnesses have already given accounts that contradict your speculations about other possible reasons for the SUV being on the tracks. It may be premature to make judgments or draw conclusions, but working from what we already know and which has been CONFIRMED by multiple accounts, the driver of the SUV is at least partly if not mostly to blame for the deaths of so many people.
Several eyewitnesses have already given accounts that contradict your speculations about other possible reasons for the SUV being on the tracks. It may be premature to make judgments or draw conclusions, but working from what we already know and which has been CONFIRMED by multiple accounts, the driver of the SUV is at least partly if not mostly to blame for the deaths of so many people.
39
Witnesses saw her rush the gates. It was a conscious detetmined effort to beat the train.
39
Yes, our infrastructure is crumbling. But drivers making bad decisions are as intact as ever. This time it was a driver who tried to beat the train.
How sad.
How sad.
54
These are all preventable accidents and deaths. What needs to happen and what should have happened a very long time ago is that all of the commuter rail lines should have automobile overpasses built where there are now train crossings.
But of course the State and the MTA play the same actuarial game that Automakers do when calculating the cost of a recall. If the probable payout for wrongful deaths is less than the cost of fixing the problem, then the problem is ignored. The people of the State of New York deserve better.
But of course the State and the MTA play the same actuarial game that Automakers do when calculating the cost of a recall. If the probable payout for wrongful deaths is less than the cost of fixing the problem, then the problem is ignored. The people of the State of New York deserve better.
10
Easy to say but what is the real world cost benefit analysis? If people observe and obey the crossing signals all is well. If the driver was at fault (as yet unknown but it does happen) that does mean the crossing was unsafe. You can't have 100% safety if people don't donwhat their supposed to.
19
I'm from another part of the country. Never heard of automobile overpasses. So don't blame the MTA or State of New York.
6
Can we consider for a moment that the woman who was driving, and who's car got stuck under the crossing gates may have gotten out to see if she could raise the gate? When she realized she couldn't, maybe she panicked when she got back in her car, and instead of "flooring it" in reverse to try to break it and get out of there, unintentionally put the car in drive and went forward? Maybe, because the tracks and road curve and she was unfamiliar with the area, she didn't realize how active that line is? There are many, many reasons this could have happened. We don't know what she was thinking, so let's try not to judge.
28
Thank you; I was going to make the same comment. Several accounts had her trying to move the barrier arm (presumably to try to back out of there), as opposed to checking for damage; and I cannot imagine the panic and adrenaline one would be acting under in such a situation.
13
Why don't those barrier arms act like garage doors, where they do something useful when they hit an obstruction, like signal back along the track for oncoming trains to brake?
12
It sounds like there was probably traffic backed up from the stoplight where Commerce crosses the Taconic (only a few yards ahead of the rail crossing). It was rush hiur. She probably foolishly inched onto the tracks while in the bumper to bumper que, instead of waiting for space on the other side to clear. Then the gates came down on her car and she was more worried about the scratches than getting off the tracks. She had a jeep! Even if there was no room to move ahead she could have driven off road to get out of the way.
5
Six people sadly lost their lives and many more were were injured tonight and that cannot be changed. All we can do is learn from this tragic accident. The likelihood of eliminating grade level crossings will not happen anytime soon. Please everyone, let's be respectful of those who perished tonight, do not point fingers, and never ever enter a grade level crossing until there is room on the other side -- even when the lights are not flashing. Pay attention when driving and be careful out there.
255
Jim:
> The likelihood of eliminating grade level crossings
> will not happen anytime soon.
See, *THAT* is the problem. We are so used to our political systems being rigged that we have essentially no expectations at all of anything ever getting better. But if we actually wanted things to get better, we could probably eliminate all grade crossings on commuter railroads within the decade. Every year, our military budget consumes more than half a *TRILLION* dollars. Even a very small fraction of that redirected to the task of building grade crossings would do the job. In 2016, the Koch brothers intend to spend about $900 Million dollars to buy our elections. That, money spent on productive purposes rather than political corruption would probably eliminate about 45 to 90 grade crossings.
If we actually wanted to solve this problem, it would be solved soon.
> The likelihood of eliminating grade level crossings
> will not happen anytime soon.
See, *THAT* is the problem. We are so used to our political systems being rigged that we have essentially no expectations at all of anything ever getting better. But if we actually wanted things to get better, we could probably eliminate all grade crossings on commuter railroads within the decade. Every year, our military budget consumes more than half a *TRILLION* dollars. Even a very small fraction of that redirected to the task of building grade crossings would do the job. In 2016, the Koch brothers intend to spend about $900 Million dollars to buy our elections. That, money spent on productive purposes rather than political corruption would probably eliminate about 45 to 90 grade crossings.
If we actually wanted to solve this problem, it would be solved soon.
2
I've ridden the MTA to/from CT on the New Haven line---I can't remember the train ever crossing any roads, but I could be wrong. Seems crazy to have cars cross over a busy commuter line from NYC.
2
No grade crossings on the New Haven Line since probably the 19th century.
8
I just checked a reference which states that the New Haven RR eliminated all grade crossings on the line from NYC to New Haven in 1910. More recently, all grade crossings on Amtrak's line from NYC to DC have been eliminated.
4
When the New York, New Haven & Hartford electrified their main line from Woodlawn Junction to New Haven and the New York Central electrified the Hudson Line to Croton-Harmon and the Harlem Line to North White Plains (both in the early 1900s), they eliminated all grade crossings in those electrified territories. The rest of the Hudson and Harlem Lines and all three branches from the New Haven Line have plenty of crossings.
6
What a tragedy for those killed and wounded, and for all the families involved. Without seeking blame, an event like this points out how quickly tragedy can strike. How unexpected. And sometime how fatal. It reminds me to tell those I love that I do love them and to do so often.
25
Just have condolences for the families of the victims.. So sad. Your life changes in a flash !!
13
I received this tweet about Cabbies ripping off commuters-taking advantage of a tragedy. This should not be allowed. The taxi commission in Westchester and other law enforcement entities should investigate.
PAUL FEINER
Julie Moran Alterio @everythingjulie ·
Will @MetroNorth reimburse expenses for stranded commuters. Cabbies charging $110 for ride up to Goldens Bridge from White Plains!
PAUL FEINER
Julie Moran Alterio @everythingjulie ·
Will @MetroNorth reimburse expenses for stranded commuters. Cabbies charging $110 for ride up to Goldens Bridge from White Plains!
17
Why would MN reimburse passengers for cab rides? The accident wasn't MN's fault. They supposedly provided bus service after the accident, so those people would've gotten home eventually, albeit late. They chose to take cabs instead. It was a choice! It's sad that this happened due to one person's lack of good judgement, but the accident was her fault. Assuming she was insured, her insurance company should assume responsibility, but not to reimburse people for cab fare they opted into.
9
Surprisingly, the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) over this side of the pond do that automatically, then claim the cost back from Network Rail.
1
So sad! I also hope that commuters were not stuck in Manhattan.
We take that train sometimes from Wassaic to Grand Central.
So scary!!
We take that train sometimes from Wassaic to Grand Central.
So scary!!
1
Trains can only be steered by the flanges of their wheels biting the tracks. Apart from that, the only way to control them is to apply power or brakes. They can stop remarkably well given their mass and accompanying momentum, but their brakes are not as efficient as those on a road vehicle.
Someone down below mentioned the notion of the train's right of way. Quite apart from the railroads' expectation that they can operate freely on their own property while allowing the public to cross it, and bear considerable expense to accommodate that public, the concept of the right of way matters here.
At sea, a sailing vessel will generally hold the right of way over a powered boat. One exception to that is when the powered vessel is limited in it's ability to maneuver. The restriction might result from its being in a narrow channel (as in the case of the train) or, by virtue of its size (again, the train comes to mind), is unable to alter its course or speed to yield to the sailboat. At that point it, the sailboat becomes the "burdened" vessel, and is required to yield to the behemoth.
I honestly have no opinions as to the character of the driver of the SUV, but a lot of folks would be alive today if more people accepted the notion that you occasionally have to yield in traffic. Especially to a train.
Someone down below mentioned the notion of the train's right of way. Quite apart from the railroads' expectation that they can operate freely on their own property while allowing the public to cross it, and bear considerable expense to accommodate that public, the concept of the right of way matters here.
At sea, a sailing vessel will generally hold the right of way over a powered boat. One exception to that is when the powered vessel is limited in it's ability to maneuver. The restriction might result from its being in a narrow channel (as in the case of the train) or, by virtue of its size (again, the train comes to mind), is unable to alter its course or speed to yield to the sailboat. At that point it, the sailboat becomes the "burdened" vessel, and is required to yield to the behemoth.
I honestly have no opinions as to the character of the driver of the SUV, but a lot of folks would be alive today if more people accepted the notion that you occasionally have to yield in traffic. Especially to a train.
57
I very much hope that people are not quick to blame the train crew. According to a statement by someone named Marjorie Anders from the MTA, the car was stopped on the tracks for an unknown reason and the gate came down on the car. I also have no opinion of the driver and we may never know why she stopped but when I see how people in our area drive, always in such a hurry it makes me want to assume that she tried to beat the gate. But why she would stop is a mystery. I hope that the investigation will find out the true facts.
9
one commenter said his friend who worked directly across the crash site saw that the SUV driver tried to beat the gates and got stuck on the tracks. nothing the train crew or the MTA could have done to prevent this from happening.
14
Scott: "At that point it, the sailboat becomes the "burdened" vessel..."
Both on the water and on the road, I've heard this referred to as "the Law of Gross Tonnage."
In the end, regardless of Coast Guard or highway regulations, if you're small, you do well to steer well clear of the larger vessels, regardless of your legal "right."
You won't catch me stopped in the middle of a railroad track, unless someone has tied me to it.
Both on the water and on the road, I've heard this referred to as "the Law of Gross Tonnage."
In the end, regardless of Coast Guard or highway regulations, if you're small, you do well to steer well clear of the larger vessels, regardless of your legal "right."
You won't catch me stopped in the middle of a railroad track, unless someone has tied me to it.
2
This exact thing happened while my husband and I were in Morocco. We were on a train from Fez to Tangiers and in the first car. We are both New Yorkers living now in Texas and reading about this tonight reminds me of a very unexpected lesson we both learned while in another country that most of America doesn't think of very consciously: there is a reason we have those warning lights, bells and education on train safety. Other countries do not have the same education or money to invest in such physical precautions; the 7 people who died the night of our crash had no idea their car COULD stall on the tracks and they naively tried to restart their car all while thinking our train COULD slow down. It was beyond tragic and yet I was told on our "tow" backwards up the tracks hours later that "this happens every day here..." and I felt so lucky to be from a country that invested in traffic safety equipment and education. I still do.
33
Other countries like ours, rich I mean, actually have overpasses for anything but the most remote tracks. Certainly for heavily used commuter lines as well as high speed lines.
5
Apparently, an avoidable tragedy as, apparently, it was the driver's fault for trying to beat out the train. Yet even when there are no deaths, or even injuries, situations like these can have major effects.
I was on an Amtrak train from NYC to FL. We were passing through some small town in South Carolina when a car full of teenagers raced to beat the train. The train just barely "nipped" the back of the car, sending it spinning down the road. Thankfully, no one was killed and, miraculously, only minor injuries to some of the teens.
But Amtrak protocol requires that the engineer be replaced after any incident. So we sat there for over two hours in Bumscrew, South Carolina (no slur on SC here...) waiting for a new engineer to be brought in. meanwhile, can you imagine the effect this had on the original engineer? He did not know for some time that all the occupants of the car survived, so he was living with the possibility of having killed everyone in the car.
People!! NEVER TRY TO BEAT A TRAIN!
As Einstein famously said, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
I was on an Amtrak train from NYC to FL. We were passing through some small town in South Carolina when a car full of teenagers raced to beat the train. The train just barely "nipped" the back of the car, sending it spinning down the road. Thankfully, no one was killed and, miraculously, only minor injuries to some of the teens.
But Amtrak protocol requires that the engineer be replaced after any incident. So we sat there for over two hours in Bumscrew, South Carolina (no slur on SC here...) waiting for a new engineer to be brought in. meanwhile, can you imagine the effect this had on the original engineer? He did not know for some time that all the occupants of the car survived, so he was living with the possibility of having killed everyone in the car.
People!! NEVER TRY TO BEAT A TRAIN!
As Einstein famously said, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
198
I knew a fellow, a locomotive engineer, who generally bid road jobs, medium distance routes. He loved it. Until the day that he saw a school bus pull up to a crossing and stop as school buses are required to do. Then he watched the bus start up again and cross his tracks. In his telling of it, he could relate the color of the eyes of each of the kids gazing helplessly at him.
The bus made it across without incident.
My acquaintance "parked" his train, called for a relief engineer, and never operated on the main line again. He bid yard jobs, in the far more perilous environment of switching cars and assembling trains in the yards.
The bus made it across without incident.
My acquaintance "parked" his train, called for a relief engineer, and never operated on the main line again. He bid yard jobs, in the far more perilous environment of switching cars and assembling trains in the yards.
54
Scott, this reminds me of the Metra incident a decade or so ago. You may recall it - AM rush, busload of school kids, RR crossing at a tee intersection with a traffic light just past the xing. Bus driver sees the red traffic light but pulls up onto xing to wait for the green. Metra engineman dumps it to no avail. I think 40 kids died. My worst nightmare.
15
Just like in plane crashes, people are jumping to conclusions all over the place, from comments on equipment, rules, politics... pathetic.
20
Our son was on the train, on his way home from college classes in Manhattan. He texted, first, that the train had suddenly stopped, then that it had hit a car, and again, that it was on fire. The lights went out, he told us later, and people were running up from the first two cars - he was in the third car - yelling that there was a fire and to get out. Other people, he said, were shouting that there was no place to go. He evacuated out of one of the back cars - the doors had been opened, but he doesn't know how. People were wandering around, confused, and then began walking north, toward Hawthorne.
His father drove down to find him, but cell phone and text reception was terrible - I guess everyone was trying to make calls - so it took a while. The police - I called 911 - told us "civilians" - their word - to keep away, but it was 17 degrees, and we weren't going to leave our son out there. He is fine, although shocked at the fatalities. There was also, he said, an explosion.
We extend our deepest sympathies to the families of our neighbors who lost their lives tonight. This was a horrible, horrible accident.
His father drove down to find him, but cell phone and text reception was terrible - I guess everyone was trying to make calls - so it took a while. The police - I called 911 - told us "civilians" - their word - to keep away, but it was 17 degrees, and we weren't going to leave our son out there. He is fine, although shocked at the fatalities. There was also, he said, an explosion.
We extend our deepest sympathies to the families of our neighbors who lost their lives tonight. This was a horrible, horrible accident.
544
Thank you for this account.
17
God bless you and your son.
18
This was a horrifying accident, and I'm glad to know your son was all right.
I have to comment on that use of the word "civilians." Thanks for putting into quotes. This usage has to be criticized. The police are not military and should pointedly be told so. They are civilians too. We are not "civilians" with respect to the police. We are citizens.
I have to comment on that use of the word "civilians." Thanks for putting into quotes. This usage has to be criticized. The police are not military and should pointedly be told so. They are civilians too. We are not "civilians" with respect to the police. We are citizens.
11
Growing up in Valhalla, I've seen classmates that would drive thru the gates as they would be in motion! And thank God they never came even close to get hit by the train. Which makes me believe that the driver of the SUV maybe responsible.
15
By definition, the SUV driver was responsible. Cars don't belong stopped within the clearance envelope of a train. That's why crossing gates exist - to keep people and vehicles *out* of the clearance envelope of passing trains.
9
As I understand it, there was a long and very slow stream of cars going through that crossing, using it as a detour because of an accident on the nearby Taconic State Parkway. The man who was in the car directly behind the SUV said the crossing barriers came down on the back of the SUV after it had already slowly gone past them. The woman in the SUV stopped her car, got out and went to the back of her car, he thinks to get the barriers off so she could back up (the man in the second car said he had already backed up to make room for her and signaled to her he was doing that). The woman was unable to get the crossing bars off her car. She then went and got back in her car and went forward isntead of backward, perhaps because she had been unable to move the barriers.
19
the flashing lights go off several seconds before the gates come down and some people think they can beat it no matter how congested the road ahead is.
9
When I was little, in the 1950's, my uncle always avoided the first and last cars in the subways and on the NY Central. He sternly told me to do the same.
My condolences to the victims' loved ones.
My condolences to the victims' loved ones.
31
And some people still do that!
4
This is very sad. People wanting to get home on a cold night likely to do a repeat of the mundane routines that we learn, later in life, to appreciate. A glass of wine while cooking pasta. Homework. Stupid unfashionable TV reruns. Don't spin this up into some grand social commentary just yet. We know too little of it.
24
Never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be when it comes to the rules of the road. You never stop on train tracks. You always stop before the tracks no matter who honks behind you. Only when its clear do you make sure that one - there is room in front for your car across the tracks for you to occupy.
Until then you sit where you are. And when you cross you never put on your brakes until you clear the tracks. Short of someone ramming you from behind and shoving your car forward onto the tracks you must always maintain your position to avoid being the victim.
Until then you sit where you are. And when you cross you never put on your brakes until you clear the tracks. Short of someone ramming you from behind and shoving your car forward onto the tracks you must always maintain your position to avoid being the victim.
109
We don't know if her car stalled or not. Please wait till there are more facts/
8
And I am constantly amazed by the presumption of people who were not witnesses to an event but nonetheless pronounce judgment and assign blame.
7
I'm impressed at how you know that the vehicle stopped on the tracks.
10
Meanwhile, the GOP focuses purely on the Keystone XL Pipeline. For them, real infrastructure projects aren't worth fighting for, and the consequences are tragic.
44
What does infrastructure have to do with a woman foolishly stopping her car on railroad tracks? And no, they are never going to elevate these tracks and build a tunnel underneath.
12
How pitiful and indefensible to inject petty partisan politics that has absolutely nothing to do with this accident.
14
@Joseph
in Hawai'i we put IN OVERPASSES! So you don't have to go under OR elevate trains.AND DON'T CALL HER FOOLISH UNTIL YOU KNOW THE WHOLE STORY!
in Hawai'i we put IN OVERPASSES! So you don't have to go under OR elevate trains.AND DON'T CALL HER FOOLISH UNTIL YOU KNOW THE WHOLE STORY!
10
Good God seven people killed because someone couldn't wait a few minutes. My condolences to the families.
240
This is not the first time a fatal crash occurred at that point. A number of years ago a cable-TV truck was struck and pushed north the same way. They really need to separate the grades there.
14
Not at all feasible to dig a tunnel or erect a bridge there. Complete closure would be chosen, with tough luck for motorists who become inconvenienced by finding longer ways around.
5
I've watched that quiet crossing for extended periods while communing at my father's grave, 100 feet away. Commerce Street is a less than optimal grade crossing: it's not close to a 90 degree angle and the track curves, both making for bad sight lines. But let's not assign fault yet; we can only consider the possibilities.
If the car were truly stalled or stuck on the tracks, or if the driver intended to commit suicide, there's no system for warning the train operator.
If the crossing gates were operational, and the car drove around the gate, then we have a daredevil situation that commonly occurs in the US, but is avoidable; in Japan, for example, grade crossings have double-sided gates that block the road completely.
If the crossing gates malfunctioned, then it's either the MTA's lack of maintenance, or perhaps ice, that caused a malfunction.
Enough money can make train crossings safer, but risk calculus in the US historically has left openings for such tragedies.
If the car were truly stalled or stuck on the tracks, or if the driver intended to commit suicide, there's no system for warning the train operator.
If the crossing gates were operational, and the car drove around the gate, then we have a daredevil situation that commonly occurs in the US, but is avoidable; in Japan, for example, grade crossings have double-sided gates that block the road completely.
If the crossing gates malfunctioned, then it's either the MTA's lack of maintenance, or perhaps ice, that caused a malfunction.
Enough money can make train crossings safer, but risk calculus in the US historically has left openings for such tragedies.
58
This evening the southeast line had signal issues. My train returning home was 10 mins late due to signal problems. In fact this morning going into GCT the train was late as well due to signal problem.
3
Double-sided gates sounds like a simple and affordable way to avoid accidents.
2
Grade crossings are very rare in Westchester, and the only ones I am aware of are in Valhalla near the Taconic Pkwy (not the Bronx River whose northern point is south of Kensico Dam). As a low-populated area, there's not much road traffic on the local roads near Valhalla’s railroad crossings, which Westchester drivers are relatively unaccustomed to.
In comparison, Nassau County is full of grade crossings in heavily populated areas. Nassau County is far more likely to have trains crashing into cars. Although Westchester should eliminate its few railroad crossings, to do so in Nassau would be a far more difficult and expensive process but should be a greater priority.
In comparison, Nassau County is full of grade crossings in heavily populated areas. Nassau County is far more likely to have trains crashing into cars. Although Westchester should eliminate its few railroad crossings, to do so in Nassau would be a far more difficult and expensive process but should be a greater priority.
14
Off the top of my head, there is one in Peekskill right near the station.
1
If Nassau County is “far more likely to have trains crashing into cars” why are we reading about a train that crashed into a car in Westchester and not in Nassau County? The determining factor is the number of cars that drive in front of trains,not the number of crossings.
5
Last I looked, there were still eleven crossings between North White Plains and Southeast and another two dozen between Southeast and Wassaic. In contrast, there are only five on the Upper Hudson.
When the New York Central electrified the Harlem Line south of North White Plains and the Hudson Line south of Croton-Harmon in the early 1900's, they eliminated all the grade crossings in the area. The New York, New Haven & Hartford did the same when they electrified the Main Line between Woodlawn and New Haven at the same time. Crossings at the north and south ends of Pleasantville and the north and south ends of Mount Kisco were eliminated in the '50s by the Central. When electrification was extended to Southeast in 1984, whatever grade crossings were there stayed.
When the New York Central electrified the Harlem Line south of North White Plains and the Hudson Line south of Croton-Harmon in the early 1900's, they eliminated all the grade crossings in the area. The New York, New Haven & Hartford did the same when they electrified the Main Line between Woodlawn and New Haven at the same time. Crossings at the north and south ends of Pleasantville and the north and south ends of Mount Kisco were eliminated in the '50s by the Central. When electrification was extended to Southeast in 1984, whatever grade crossings were there stayed.
3
I was on the train this morning going into GCT and this evening returning on the southeast line. Both trains were delayed today due to signal problems. It goes to show that our trains equipment tracks signals are third world. The diesel trains are from the late 1980 and 1990s. The last accident in dec 2013 it was never explain how the 4 fatalities were discover outside of the train.
My heart goes out to victims and their families.
My heart goes out to victims and their families.
33
Think what an unbelievable public transportation system we could have if we didn't live in such a CAR CULTURE. Has anyone calculated how much government on all levels--federal, state, and local--pays to subsidize the use of private automobiles? How many people commute 100 miles to work every day? How many people use their car to drive to the mailbox? The saddest thing is reading about car accidents where a whole family is killed driving to
Disneyworld or a soccer match? And then add in all the expenses of the individual drivers? The cost of maintaining a car is probably equal to sending a student to college! How many people or families maintain two, three, or four cars? Maybe we should put a tax on a second car or a gas guzzler and use the extra money for mass transit.
Disneyworld or a soccer match? And then add in all the expenses of the individual drivers? The cost of maintaining a car is probably equal to sending a student to college! How many people or families maintain two, three, or four cars? Maybe we should put a tax on a second car or a gas guzzler and use the extra money for mass transit.
4
Although many are reconditioned, the diesels are a lot older. On the NH line most of the electric cars are from the 70's
1
A witness to the accident just called to tell me her car got stuck on the tracks as the driver tried to beat the gate coming down. She got OUT OF HER VEHICLE and she and the car were struck as she was rushing to get back in -- because she didn't hear the train coming. The gates/lights/bells happen in plenty of time to warn the SANE and SKILLED and CAREFUL. She chose to disregard the tools in place.
44
The local Westchester news channel had the guy who was behind the woman whose car got hit on the phone. Apparently the gate crossing came down on her car but she had enough room to back out or at least leave the car there and get herself out of danger. The car was not fully on the tracks. Instead, she inspected the damage, got back in the car and tried to gun it across and ended up killing herself and five others and several people lost limbs and were otherwise seriously injured. This was not a split second thing. I don't know what she was thinking. Now she's dead and so are several other innocent people and others whose lives are changed forever.
339
This is what Channel 7 TV reported as a news flash before any of the other TV or news papers reported on the tragic event.
5
Yes but what you dont say is that there was also bumper to bumper traffic and little to no street lighting. The driver was in error for sure, but context is everything.
1
Is it me or is it odd that the Times chose to identify the gender of the driver of the vehicle involved in the crash? ("the female driver of the vehicle")
No mention of the gender of any other victims.
Not trying to be PC here, but come on. It's not 1950. Or Saudi Arabia.
No mention of the gender of any other victims.
Not trying to be PC here, but come on. It's not 1950. Or Saudi Arabia.
77
Most accident reports include the gender of the person involved, name withheld until family notified. Vehicle is of interest, SmartCar, SUV, box truck, gasoline tanker adds to the information. Is as interesting to know type of vehicle as which train line it was.
25
Just another fact to add to an unfolding story. It is not odd in the least.
20
Give it a break! This is a terrible tragedy! And, you are nitpicking! In this case the driver happen to be a woman, and women like the rest of us, do make mistakes!!!
13
A sad case of someone being more concerned about her car and trying to get somewhere fast then about her surroundings. Care about people, not cars.
16
Care about facts rather than posting a comment when you don't know them. Your explanation for the crash is but one of many possibilities and you don't know which one actually occurred. That's why we have the NTSB.
8
Disturbing. I often take that train line to visit family.
1
1 person's impatient stupidity, and 5 innocent people die horrible deaths just trying to get home from work.
Terrifying. I ride in the front car (Quiet Car) on the Metro North every day on my way home from work.
Terrifying. I ride in the front car (Quiet Car) on the Metro North every day on my way home from work.
15
We shouldn't accuse the deceased driver until more facts are known.
25
There were signal problems on the way home this evening. The trains were running 10 mins late due to signal problem
6
the signal problem was not the issue. the issue was the driver of the suv tried to beat the train by going through the gate. she got out of her car when it got stuck.
6
This is an awfully tragic accident that seems like should have been avoided unless the driver of the black Jeep Cherokee had a medical condition that prevented her from noticing the signal or the train or both or the sound of the train. The fire also seemed to have been quite rapid with intense heat. Very unfortunate. Sympathies to the families and friends of the departed souls. May those lost RIP.
63
The gates come down very quickly - we live on that line - and she apparently got caught between the gates, and tried to get out by going forward, not back. It's pitch dark outside of town, where the accident occurred. This was a horrible, freak accident.
13
RCT: "It's pitch dark outside of town, where the accident occurred."
There was a full moon last night.
There was a full moon last night.
2
yes but, whoever it is in the car shouldn't have been there in the first place. she in turn caused a very bad accident.
1
I've been taking metro north since 1970. I had never heard of a passenger death until the crash it ct. Last year And now this. Their is something seriously wrong with metro north....
4
If the preliminary information is correct and the crossing gates were down, the driver of the car should never have proceeded through the grade crossing. This is incredibly dangerous - even if you already saw a train pass. Another one can come in the other direction. If that was the case, I can't see how the railroad can be held at such fault for a driver's tragic error in judgement.
30
Your ignorance and lack of common sense is astounding. MTA Metro North has no culpability for this tragedy whatsoever. Motorist errors all the way. Enlighten us how you (incredibly) reason that Metro North is at fault here.
9
Surely more information will emerge about this tragic accident. Condolences to those affected. Meanwhile, I appreciate the readers who take the opportunity to bring up the issue of aging infrastructure.
118
How would new infrastructure have changed the outcome? Driver exited vehicle after gates came down, and was struck as she rushed back to the vehicle to save it from collision. There is no evidence that quality of infrastructure contributed to this tragedy. But thanks for tacking on your bias and ready-made narrative. No need to let facts inform your conclusions. Government definitely to blame for this, right?
7
Smart infrastructure design can help save us from occasional errors. Is that too much to ask for?
9
The trains had signal issues this morning and evening could explain s lot if we get the truth. Yes aging infrastructure could be part of the problem here.
5
From other reports: "The Metropolitan Transportation Authority said the gates came down on top of the SUV at the crossing, which was stopped on the tracks. The driver got out to look at the rear of the car, then she got back in and drove forward and was struck."
16
Wow. That was not only a fatal mistake for the driver, but for several other people. Simply horrible.
8
There was an eyewitness account- he was directly behind the woman who was hit- He said people were cutting through the cemetery because of traffic, and they were backed up due to the traffic and the light, and the gate came down on the back of her car. She got out and tried to move the gate. He backed up and indicated she should also. She got back in her car and drove onto the tracks, directly in front of the train. (News 12 Hudson Valley has been playing the account) Sadly there is not much the train can do to stop at that point. It takes a lot of distance to bring a train to a stop. It's plain physics. It seems to be a tragic accident, leaving you to wonder why she did what she did. Why didn't she stay put? Why didn't she just leave her car and run away form it? you can always buy another car. Nobody will ever know.
160
I don't understand why she drove forward in this case. At all. With a train obviously barreling down the tracks directly at her. No way I'd even have gotten back in that car. My dad's car was stolen when I was a kid & it was left on some tracks. It was literally decimated by a Conrail train. My uncle was a Conrail & CSX engineer, thankfully not that run that night. I have a lot of respect for the power of a train. People don't understabd how much power that really is.
16
I don't know the roadways there, but the news reported that there had already been a car accident on the Taconic. So there was probably a lot of extra traffic from those able to get off the Taconic. And many drivers around here simply refuse to exercise any patience whatsoever when their roadway is impeded by snow, other cars, or obstructions of any kind. Honking, tailgating, and passing on the right, to name a few signs of self-importance, are a way of life in metro NYC.
14
The Times has added a graphic which illustrates the location where Commerce Street cuts across both the railroad tracks as well as the Taconic State Parkway (in the New York area, "Parkways" are highways which are generally restricted to cars).
Unfortunately an unrelated multiple vehicle accident which had just occurred on the Taconic a few minutes earlier
http://mountpleasant.dailyvoice.com/news/serious-accident-leads-closure-... ["Valhalla" is the name of this portion of the town]
caused the closure of the southbound lanes on that road, forcing drivers to exit the Taconic at Commerce, where they are immediately confronted with the grade-level railroad crossing. The view the driver would have had upon being diverted onto this crossing can be seen here:
http://goo.gl/maps/Ybbo4
The stream of drivers would then have to pass through the Sharon Gardens/Kensico Cemetery in order to reenter the Taconic Parkway at Lakeview, the next crossing beyond the earlier car accident.
This is illustrated here: http://goo.gl/maps/5rxkh
Perhaps as a result of this tragedy these grade-level crossings will be replaced with a bridge or some other form of controlled access which could prevent future catastrophes here. After all, the residents of the numerous cemeteries surrounding this location on all sides are not really in a position to raise objections to a modification of the traffic plan, and they form the bulk of the "population" of Valhalla...
Unfortunately an unrelated multiple vehicle accident which had just occurred on the Taconic a few minutes earlier
http://mountpleasant.dailyvoice.com/news/serious-accident-leads-closure-... ["Valhalla" is the name of this portion of the town]
caused the closure of the southbound lanes on that road, forcing drivers to exit the Taconic at Commerce, where they are immediately confronted with the grade-level railroad crossing. The view the driver would have had upon being diverted onto this crossing can be seen here:
http://goo.gl/maps/Ybbo4
The stream of drivers would then have to pass through the Sharon Gardens/Kensico Cemetery in order to reenter the Taconic Parkway at Lakeview, the next crossing beyond the earlier car accident.
This is illustrated here: http://goo.gl/maps/5rxkh
Perhaps as a result of this tragedy these grade-level crossings will be replaced with a bridge or some other form of controlled access which could prevent future catastrophes here. After all, the residents of the numerous cemeteries surrounding this location on all sides are not really in a position to raise objections to a modification of the traffic plan, and they form the bulk of the "population" of Valhalla...
2
It would be nice to have no grade crossings. Until then, drivers still need to heed warning lights and gates. That still works pretty well. I'm willing to bet this one was caused by the negligence of the SUV driver.
22
A tragedy for those killed, and for their families. Sympathy is definitely in order, but maybe blame and outrage are misplaced. How many people were hurt or killed in auto accidents the same day? Do we automatically blame highways, cars, or the government for head-on collisions? People make mistakes, sometimes deadly ones. How about waiting till the facts are in before passing judgment.
249
It sounds as though this WAS a car accident, actually--car vs. train, and the train had the right of way.
In my experience, I hate to say, people who drive SUV's are reckless and inconsiderate. I have never seen one flash a turn-signal. Those vehicles should be banned.
In my experience, I hate to say, people who drive SUV's are reckless and inconsiderate. I have never seen one flash a turn-signal. Those vehicles should be banned.
12
I drive an SUV, and I signal meticulously. Perhaps because SUVs are large, or because you clearly personally resent them, you notice those who don't signal more frequently. I think bad drivers run the gamut of vehicles. And there are also poor bicyclists and even pedestrians.
We should focus on what *actually* caused this accident because only then can we learn from it and prevent future loss of life.
We should focus on what *actually* caused this accident because only then can we learn from it and prevent future loss of life.
18
I agree w/ you DrB. Apparently, SUVs come with OPTIONAL turn signals. and since they're so expensive to start with, a lot of people opt out of the signals to save $$.
5
There was a car accident that closed the Bronx River Parkway, forcing long lines of traffic to divert across the train tracks. I crossed the tracks about 15 minutes before the train-vehicle collision. My guess is that the vehicle was stuck/trapped in traffic on the tracks but that is just a guess. Regardless, the police should have directed traffic at the track intersection given the unusually heavy flow. This was most likely totally avoidable.
60
Mike K, your comment is key: for action there is a reaction...the infrastructure of the surrounding community should have alerts and plans for unexpected events...directing traffic is not a detail that the "protect and serve" employees embrace but someone has to do it...and if individuals in authority knew about the diverting traffic and did nothing they should be held accountable. Rail crossings are vulnerable areas and at certain times of the day in all communities when trains and traffic are likely to encounter each these areas should be manned...trains keep a schedule that all police departments should have access to ...the 5:45 PM out of GCT crosses Commerce St. at the same time every weekday...services cannot operate in a vacuum. This was an avoidable tragic accident...where was the nearest police cruiser at the time of the accident?
9
Basic driving. You do not sit on train tracks. If there is traffic you wait before the tracks until there is enough space to safely cross.
4
Every student driver knows: NEVER stop on a railroad crossing. You wait on your side until you can drive over the entire crossing.
4
I'm just sad at the lost lives. It's far too soon to guess the cause(s) and lay blame.
14
The cause had already been documented. It was a driver crossing under a gate
19
Why are you blaming the MTA? It's the fault of the driver. Did she not see the gate coming down? It landed on her car, she got out, looked at the back of the car, and drove forward. Yes, FACTS, please.
272
Because MTA is operating on ancient technology, in Europe they don't have road crossings and trains go 175 miles per hour, compare that to here, why are cars physically allowed to get in front of the train in the first place? What if somebody decided to commit suicide? Why are there no sensors that notify the train that there is a car on the road crossing? By your stupid logic, we wouldn't make any progress.
5
Agreed. The aging infrastructure is an issue we should certainly address, but this isn't a case that illustrates that point.
7
I'm European, and every railroad crossing I've seen back home is the same as here, with signals and barriers, but no other systems. If drivers willfully ignore those, then tragic accidents like this happen. The kind of system you're describing would probably not even have helped in this situation, as I understood she drove forward onto the tracks moments before the train hit her. While it is true that most European countries invest a lot more in public transport, trains in the NYC metro area are pretty good. It's just a fact of life that not every accident is preventable, tragically...
14
ABC News is reporting that the driver of the Cherokee drove under the yardarm as it came down on her car, she stopped and walked back to check the car and make sure it was not damaged, and then drove forward into the oncoming train. Never drive past a semaphore with flashing lights.
165
Once again, the greatest security threat to railroad passengers is from vehicles on the tracks. This incident joins a long list of fatal collisions between trains and cars and trucks on tracks.
Think about the next time you see the TSA at Penn Station pawing through passengers' bags.
Think about the next time you see the TSA at Penn Station pawing through passengers' bags.
22
The Federal Railroad Administraton(FRA) and the railroads have put out warnings and educational items about grade crossing safety for many years. It is usually one of the mandated test questions on a driver license exam.
9
This is the 2nd deadly Metro-North accident within the past year or so. The previous accident was engineer error and lack of safety features. We'll have to wait to find out what caused this accident.
Whatever the cause, it's hard not to feel that our infrastructure is being neglected, and people are paying the price with their lives.
Whatever the cause, it's hard not to feel that our infrastructure is being neglected, and people are paying the price with their lives.
21
What does someone drive through a closed gate have to do with neglected infrastructure? Says more about about our willingness to hand out drivers licenses to anyone who can walk and chew gum.
33
@JJ Well said. I'm 72 years old, have been driving since I was 16, and the experience just gets worse and worse. It seems that you can't get in a car these days and drive the speed limit and not get tail-gated. People don't signal because they have their hands full with a phone. 55 mph speed limit? What a joke. A car is a lethal weapon in the wrong hands and there are a lot of wrong hands out there. I couldn't agree more that we need to be a lot more careful about who gets licenses. Will that happen? The same day I become Queen of England.
15
Unless the train derailed before the crash, then the driver of the car was at fault. A train follows a predictable route along the railway tracks. For some reason there are drivers who think that the flashing lights and the gates are there for them to ignore. It is not rocket science to avoid being hit by a train; just don't cross when the train is approaching especially when you are warned but the lights and gates.
Unfortunately the engineer on the train will be affected by this accident for the rest of his career, even though he is not at fault and several passengers died because of the driver's stupidity.
Unfortunately the engineer on the train will be affected by this accident for the rest of his career, even though he is not at fault and several passengers died because of the driver's stupidity.
308
He'll have no career. He's one of the dead.
9
How very sad.
2
I don't know what was going on in the mind of the car driver. I cannot sit in judgment, as i was not there. But, as a locomotive engineer, what I do know is that this is what nightmares are made of. You are barreling along at high speed, blowing the horn, ringing the bell. You can see that the crossing's automated protection system is operable. Nothing is blocking your path. It's just another railroad crossing. Suddenly, in a fraction of a fraction of a second, it's not. Even if you have time to react by putting the train brakes into emergency, it will not do any good, because trains cannot stop on a dime. You are, in a word, helpless.
I have seen car drivers do some pretty illogical things at railroad crossings. I have seen some pretty close calls. I have had the daylights scared out of me too many times. I have been blessed. I am praying as i write this.
We need to wait for the results of the investigation, holster the finger-pointing, and remember that this is a chronic problem that is not going to go away by itself.
My heartfelt sympathy goes out to everyone affected by this tragedy. Please take a moment to include the locomotive engineer in your thoughts and prayers this evening. I know I am.
I have seen car drivers do some pretty illogical things at railroad crossings. I have seen some pretty close calls. I have had the daylights scared out of me too many times. I have been blessed. I am praying as i write this.
We need to wait for the results of the investigation, holster the finger-pointing, and remember that this is a chronic problem that is not going to go away by itself.
My heartfelt sympathy goes out to everyone affected by this tragedy. Please take a moment to include the locomotive engineer in your thoughts and prayers this evening. I know I am.
61
Interesting to see that so far, all comments are blaming the mta.
How about blaming this as an ACCIDENT? they happen. an accident of this nature is rare, but it happens.
Or heaven forbid, anyone places blame on the driver? could she have been to blame? that happens too. so before we condemn the mta, the goverment, and whoallelse, let's examine the facts. please.
How about blaming this as an ACCIDENT? they happen. an accident of this nature is rare, but it happens.
Or heaven forbid, anyone places blame on the driver? could she have been to blame? that happens too. so before we condemn the mta, the goverment, and whoallelse, let's examine the facts. please.
218
Ok, but less than four hours after a woman was killed after apparently misjudging her time to get across the train tracks, is it really necessary or helpful to start calling her names online? My condolences to the families involved. Let's keep the all-caps name calling out of the discussion when the person in question just died and presumably did not intend harm to anybody.
30
W84me,
I agree. The story is just breaking and we barely have any facts--just the bare bones of a breaking story--and yet so many here have already formed a decided, strong opinion on exactly why the accident happened, and who is to blame (MTA, government). Bizarre.
The commentators will probably ignore your friend's witnessing statements that you've offered as well, in a rush to automatically condemn the authorities. Who needs facts or an eyewitness account or a full story when the opportunity to bash the infamous MTA or our crumbling infrastructure is on hand?
I agree. The story is just breaking and we barely have any facts--just the bare bones of a breaking story--and yet so many here have already formed a decided, strong opinion on exactly why the accident happened, and who is to blame (MTA, government). Bizarre.
The commentators will probably ignore your friend's witnessing statements that you've offered as well, in a rush to automatically condemn the authorities. Who needs facts or an eyewitness account or a full story when the opportunity to bash the infamous MTA or our crumbling infrastructure is on hand?
10
There is a lot that can be done to protect from the mistakes humans can make--better barriers at crossing, roads that cross where the line of sight in both directions, rails that allow for quicker stops, and, of course, trains that go under or over roads, not through them. When we invest in better infrastructure, we protect against our own imperfections.
222
What all RR crossing need to have are gates that, when they don't fully seat into a holder, or are pressing on something, send a signal to traffic control lights on the tracks to signal the conductor to brake hard, brake fast, and blow the horn.
Sadly, it sounds like the conductor had no idea a car was on the tracks.
We can have traffic signals embedded in the highways, why not at rail crossings?
Sadly, it sounds like the conductor had no idea a car was on the tracks.
We can have traffic signals embedded in the highways, why not at rail crossings?
13
Please note massive vehicle such as a train chugging above a certain speed cannot simply stop on a dime.
23
I think you overestimate the ability of a train to stop within a short distance. Brake as hard as you want: the wheels will lock and the train can slide a long ways.
25
That wouldn't help: the train is too massive to stop in time.
That's why the crossing is protected by signals and a gate.
That's why the crossing is protected by signals and a gate.
15
Traveled all over France, Germany, Belgium and Britain last summer. Eurostasr, SNCF, Thalys and DB Bahn. Speeds up to 175 mph. No road crossings anywhere on the systems. A 1/10 cent tax per trade on Wall Street would likely pay for similar service around metro NYC.
768
What does taxing Wall Street have to do with anything? Is that just the go-to pocket to pick for raising revenues to fund whatever we please at the moment?
Here's a dirty little secret...Wall Street just passes those costs along to you, pal.
Here's a dirty little secret...Wall Street just passes those costs along to you, pal.
9
Why don't you pay for it with taxes on your income?
9
AC, you are correct. The Europeans have spent heavily on what is called "grade crossing separation", that is, the elimination of railroad crossings by utilizing bridges, tunnels, etc. It costs, but it works. And yes, saves lives. All of the high-speed routes you mention have been built from the ground up without grade crossings.
38
This should not have happened. Senator Blumenthal [D] from Connecticut has been warning of an under funded Metro North's risk to the communities it served. Senator Blumenthal and Senator Schumer should sit down , and use their influence to protect the NYC -METRO commuters with adequate service funding, and the paramount Federally decreed safety standard.
54
The vast majority of the times when these things happen they turn out to be the fault of the driver of the vehicle and as such are probably not really related to Metro-North funding levels.
53
In CT for years the upstaters have dug their heels in at any attempt to put more money into the RR system. I have also read that they have taken money out of the RR fund (which was only supposed to be used on the system) and used it for roads around Hartford.
1
I know that crossing and the gates come down with lights flashing when a train is approaching. Everyone coming to a crossing should pay attention to the adage, "Stop, Look, and Listen." I do even when the gates are up.
126
I was in the vicinity and I know the crossing. It should be closed. Crossings scare me. I always check even if gates up. I avoid the crossings I know of,
15
Checking is excellent!
6
Mr. Watt, your last sentence is worth repeating. It's good practice to come to a full stop and look both ways WHENEVER crossing train tracks. One the one hand, there's the chance that the safety system has failed completely. On the other hand, of course, there's the inconvenience of adding three seconds to one's drive time. But on the third hand there's the chance, however, small, that one's life could be at stake.
4
As long as the federal government continues to cut investment in our nation's infrastructure, these types of tragedies will continue. We have shiny new trains operating on centuries-old tracks, relying on outdated switch-and-lever track systems, rusting overhead power lines, with grade crossings in densely populated areas. The United States is slowly crumbling.
702
Give it a rest, man, please. Someone drove in front of a train, tragically, and she and her passengers died as a result of her poor judgment, and you're indicting the entire United States infrastructure. Life is messy and dangerous and nothing can change that. I feel terrible for the dead and their families, of course. Please, though, let's not mistake the trees for a forest.
111
When blaming and criticizing a person doesn't have to feel....when we are quiet, we might feel sad and so many of us don't know what to do with sadness.
9
"She and her passengers died" -- read the article first. The driver of the vehicle died and 5 people on board the train died. And yes, decaying infrastructure does kill people: highway bridges collapse, trains derail when speed control systems are not installed and updated, subways get stuck underground in DC and fill with smoke. So why don't YOU give it a rest, MAN. Stop being part of the problem.
17
this is a very very very remote happenstance. what are the odds for this, and when was the last time something like this happened?
Was the car stuck on the tracks -- was it snow? what? or, was the car in motion? and if so, were the gates not working, or warning lights?
what broke down in the system? I'm in that area almost daily -- and have crossed those tracks countless times, as have many thousands of us.
Please, report the facts fully, when known, and let us know what went wrong.
Was the car stuck on the tracks -- was it snow? what? or, was the car in motion? and if so, were the gates not working, or warning lights?
what broke down in the system? I'm in that area almost daily -- and have crossed those tracks countless times, as have many thousands of us.
Please, report the facts fully, when known, and let us know what went wrong.
24
"...very very very remote happenstance"? Second fatal crash on a Metro-North line in 2 years is hardly very very very remote.
12
Preliminary word is driver tried to beat the gate.
14
An eyewitness report said that a line of cars was inching along Commerce St, trying to avoid a traffic jam on the Taconic. The Jeep that was struck had paused before crossing the tracks, but was just past the crossing gate when it came down and rested on the back of the Jeep. The woman driver got out, inspected the gate, tried to move it unsuccessfully and then got back in her car and accelerated across the tracks when she was struck by the train. This eyewitness was reportedly in the vehicle directly behind the Jeep, and reported this on the air to News12.
63
I don't think any one can blame the MTA for this accident.
But against a back drop of out-of-control costs, lack of accountability, and a regular tempo of accidents, this is not good news for the MTA.
I'd like to dream that someday we could have an affordable, safe, well-run transportation agency, as befitting a world class city.
But against a back drop of out-of-control costs, lack of accountability, and a regular tempo of accidents, this is not good news for the MTA.
I'd like to dream that someday we could have an affordable, safe, well-run transportation agency, as befitting a world class city.
53
If you want an affordable, safe, well-run transportation agency, ask Governor Cuomo why he vetoed the MTA transit lockbox bill. You can't have world class infrastructure without a dedicated funding source.
55
Raise taxes on the rich.
17
It isn't free. We have to pay for it. Whether from higher fares, more state funding, or some combination....we have to pay for the services we use.
6
Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.
Why do we still have grade crossings on heavily-used commuter tracks less than an hour from the most heavily-populated city in the United States? You would never see this 30 minutes away from Central London or Berlin or Paris or Rome.
We're a rich country choosing to "do transit" about as well as Argentina and, for that, our people are paying -- with their lives.
Why do we still have grade crossings on heavily-used commuter tracks less than an hour from the most heavily-populated city in the United States? You would never see this 30 minutes away from Central London or Berlin or Paris or Rome.
We're a rich country choosing to "do transit" about as well as Argentina and, for that, our people are paying -- with their lives.
799
You ask why? Because we are Americans who don't believe in providing public services or maintaining the sorry lot we have. Got problems? Just blame union workers for all of them.
168
Anthony,
You're in London. Here across the pond in the colonies, there has been a group of people who fashion themselves after the Boston Tea Party. In fact they call themselves the Tea Party.
But they have history confused. The cry back in the 1700s was "No taxation without representation." But they have skewed that slogan to be "No taxation!" Ever!
So since 2010 when this Tea Party nearly took over our federal legislature in both the Senate and House...it was this problem with electing our first African-American president. Most of us were so happy we cried at getting Barack Obama. We failed to understand the very deep racist roots still growing beneath the surface in the USA.
We don't have money to fix our infrastructure. Congress hasn't raised the gasoline (petrol) tax since 1993. Now gasoline is cheap here...much cheaper than in France, Great Britain, Italy. And gas taxes have been used for infrastructure repair and replacement in the past.
Now that we have all these VERY crazy people in both our state and federal legislatures who think: Government bad. Crazy people Good.
Our civil engineers feel that we need THREE TRILLION dollars rightnow! As our roads, bridges, sewers are all falling apart. But we can't do anything unless there is money budgeted for it. See our problem?
So 33,000 people will die every year in our country on our roads and byways...equal to the number of people who are killed by guns each year too.
So overpasses for rail? HAHAHAHA!
You're in London. Here across the pond in the colonies, there has been a group of people who fashion themselves after the Boston Tea Party. In fact they call themselves the Tea Party.
But they have history confused. The cry back in the 1700s was "No taxation without representation." But they have skewed that slogan to be "No taxation!" Ever!
So since 2010 when this Tea Party nearly took over our federal legislature in both the Senate and House...it was this problem with electing our first African-American president. Most of us were so happy we cried at getting Barack Obama. We failed to understand the very deep racist roots still growing beneath the surface in the USA.
We don't have money to fix our infrastructure. Congress hasn't raised the gasoline (petrol) tax since 1993. Now gasoline is cheap here...much cheaper than in France, Great Britain, Italy. And gas taxes have been used for infrastructure repair and replacement in the past.
Now that we have all these VERY crazy people in both our state and federal legislatures who think: Government bad. Crazy people Good.
Our civil engineers feel that we need THREE TRILLION dollars rightnow! As our roads, bridges, sewers are all falling apart. But we can't do anything unless there is money budgeted for it. See our problem?
So 33,000 people will die every year in our country on our roads and byways...equal to the number of people who are killed by guns each year too.
So overpasses for rail? HAHAHAHA!
698
Should all trains go above or below the road? Or the road above or below the tracks?
Perhaps it can be done, but the logistics are scary to think about. Trains would have to operate in two pieces for over a year with shuttle buses connecting them as the tracks and road are ripped up and reconfigured.
Perhaps it can be done, but the logistics are scary to think about. Trains would have to operate in two pieces for over a year with shuttle buses connecting them as the tracks and road are ripped up and reconfigured.
7