The shame of ageism is that it is blind to seeing the embedded accomplishments of older people, as encompassed by the statement of a 91 year old woman I helped one evening in Gramercy Park mail a letter - "The nice thing about beIng older is that all my experience makes living life so much easier."
When I was in my 40s, I earned an MA from an outstanding university. I told my dean that I had decided to apply to a PhD program and she said "You won't be accepted anywhere. You're too old." I said "Why, I thought I'd apply to the department here!" She said "They only take 12 applicants and never anyone over 30." I said "That's discrimination and it's illegal." And she said "I know. But no place that rejects you is going to tell you that they never accept doctoral students over 30 - but they all do that. They believe that at your age, it's a waste of their time and resources to train you because you won't work in the profession long enough, compared to someone 20 years younger."
She was right. I had all As and great recommendations but all 12 programs I applied to turned me down, including the university where I got the Master's degree and the university where I had earned my B.A. 20 years earlier.
I was eventually accepted at a great university in England, where, it was my impression, age discrimination was much less of a problem. But I didn't go because I realized that if I got a doctorate there I would then come back here and nobody would ever hire me at my age - and I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in England.
There should be enforcement of the laws against age discrimination simply by looking at the fact that a graduate department has never accepted an applicant over 30. When enough people raise a fuss, this will stop.
She was right. I had all As and great recommendations but all 12 programs I applied to turned me down, including the university where I got the Master's degree and the university where I had earned my B.A. 20 years earlier.
I was eventually accepted at a great university in England, where, it was my impression, age discrimination was much less of a problem. But I didn't go because I realized that if I got a doctorate there I would then come back here and nobody would ever hire me at my age - and I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in England.
There should be enforcement of the laws against age discrimination simply by looking at the fact that a graduate department has never accepted an applicant over 30. When enough people raise a fuss, this will stop.
Many thanks for Professor Dubrow's beautifully written letter and the profound, provocative replies by readers. Thanks also to the Times for publishing so many illuminating pieces on end of life issues.
We all experience aging a bit differently, depending on our particular situations. Yet it is also truly the great equalizer - a condition we all eventually face - if we're lucky, as some readers have noted.
In my judgment, the keys to aging well include good diet, sufficient rest and exercise, maintaining a sense of humor (which is aided by good diet, rest, and exercise), meaningful work, meaningful relationships, and a hobby or two. On the last point, I'm happy to report that with the increased discipline, focus, and patience that aging can yield (I'm pushing 60), my singing voice, guitar skills, and league bowling average have all greatly improved just in my 50's. Assuming I see my 60's, I can't wait to see what they might offer.
We all experience aging a bit differently, depending on our particular situations. Yet it is also truly the great equalizer - a condition we all eventually face - if we're lucky, as some readers have noted.
In my judgment, the keys to aging well include good diet, sufficient rest and exercise, maintaining a sense of humor (which is aided by good diet, rest, and exercise), meaningful work, meaningful relationships, and a hobby or two. On the last point, I'm happy to report that with the increased discipline, focus, and patience that aging can yield (I'm pushing 60), my singing voice, guitar skills, and league bowling average have all greatly improved just in my 50's. Assuming I see my 60's, I can't wait to see what they might offer.
We all age, none of us has a fountain of youth in our yard. However, I have found that the aging process is beautiful, as we become more comfortable with ourselves and more accepting of the world in general. I wouldn't trade my almost 50 year old mindset for my former 25 year old one. I love each passing year and all it brings in terms of increased awareness.While distasteful comments on aging may bother some, we really have to laugh at those who ignorantly lodge them. Those folks will soon find themselves having aged too, and they won't be as accepting of it. As for being downsized, that is a door closing, but another one is opening too: a new business, a new career, a new outlook. Carpe diem. It is really all good.
I'm not worried about looking old or how the world perceives me. In fact, I feel pretty good about myself. It's all a matter of perspective.
Young people at work spend most of the time complaining about everything. Older workers just move ahead with their enthusiasm.
Picking on people for age, skin tone, gender, and other physical attributes is really stupid and cruel.
I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I've seen rampant ageism as friends in their 50's and at the peak of their power and careers suddenly find themselves unemployable, losing position after position to less qualified people who are younger. On the other, at 60, I am not what I was. I don't have the same energy and drive I had, I'm not as smart, creative, strong, or healthy, and no, I'm not as attractive -- not that I was anything to brag about even then.
To a certain point, experience compensates for the fading of one's faculties. But at some point, the liabilities start to prevail. And, really, the suggestion that grey hair, wrinkles, and age spots should somehow be as attractive as youthful bloom is ridiculous, inasmuch as our instincts lead us to seek physically robust mates.
So -- I'm grateful to have made it so far in good health, and decry theage discrimination that I see, and to which I sometimes contributed when I was young myself. But I don't think the solution is to fantasize that 80 is the new 20. Old age means a sad, slow degeneration of our physical and mental abilities. I take comfort in the fact that, in studies, elderly people are the happiest of all.
To a certain point, experience compensates for the fading of one's faculties. But at some point, the liabilities start to prevail. And, really, the suggestion that grey hair, wrinkles, and age spots should somehow be as attractive as youthful bloom is ridiculous, inasmuch as our instincts lead us to seek physically robust mates.
So -- I'm grateful to have made it so far in good health, and decry theage discrimination that I see, and to which I sometimes contributed when I was young myself. But I don't think the solution is to fantasize that 80 is the new 20. Old age means a sad, slow degeneration of our physical and mental abilities. I take comfort in the fact that, in studies, elderly people are the happiest of all.
5
I greatly appreciate the spirit in all these comments--more than the article itself. Very heartening to a 52 year-old just beginning to be more at peace with my self and my place.
1
Although I have no evidence to back it up, I think that, while pursuing 'youthful vigor' has been the pastime of centuries, modern emphasis on youth came about with the the confluence of television, pop radio, and the Boomer generation. Marketers and advertisers first sold to the Boomers' parents, and then directly to the Boomers. Thanks to the GI Bill and post-war prosperity, we Boomers had more disposable income and more leisure than our parents had had. Further, they had come through the Depression, but we had not. As far as we could tell, the future was full of promise and new technology as well as continuing prosperity - if the Russians didn't get us, that is.
Though Boomers have grown older, businesses have not grown older with them, and continue their emphasis on youthful energy, underscored by the tech entrepreneurs; young geniuses, who want to fill their ranks with others like themselves. Though life expectancy and mental acuity have expanded, as usual, society has not evolved at the same rate, so old attitudes still apply.
In their ability and desire to keep going past the years that their parents would have been retired, Boomers continue to push the boundaries of expectations. Unfortunately, few are seeing that, and in our concern for what will become of the under-employed young adults with their crushing educational loans, fewer are even interested.
Though Boomers have grown older, businesses have not grown older with them, and continue their emphasis on youthful energy, underscored by the tech entrepreneurs; young geniuses, who want to fill their ranks with others like themselves. Though life expectancy and mental acuity have expanded, as usual, society has not evolved at the same rate, so old attitudes still apply.
In their ability and desire to keep going past the years that their parents would have been retired, Boomers continue to push the boundaries of expectations. Unfortunately, few are seeing that, and in our concern for what will become of the under-employed young adults with their crushing educational loans, fewer are even interested.
4
Old people at work spend most of the time complain about everything.
Younger people move ahead with their enthusiasm.
Younger people move ahead with their enthusiasm.
A perfect example of ageism! I guess Joe wants to show off his cleverness by showing he knows what ageism looks like. Go Joe. (P. S. When you are older you will retire early, right?).
18
My experience is that young people never take notes at meetings, look at their phone every 5 minutes and say "no problem" instead of your welcome. My experience is that they overestimate what they have to offer and underestimate what they have to learn, other than that they're great.
1
I earned a Master’s Degree in Computer Science at 45. I played vigorous tennis up to age 59, then slacked off a bit to run my first marathon. I ran six more until a fall in a book store tore off my right quadriceps tendon. My tennis career ended with the fall. Eighteen months later I ran my eighth marathon at 65. At 73 I am considering running a ninth. My mind is saying yes, but my body maybe not. A high price must be paid to run a marathon at any age. The motivation I had earlier is diminished. Other things have diminished as well. It’s hard to give up what I had and did at earlier age. In fact it is awful, a struggle, sometimes a monumental one. Those who belittle old people at best are ignorant, at worst stupid. I still cling to life with a forceful grip. But that grip, of necessity, is loosening with each passing day. Others, the lucky ones, like me, are learning some of life’s hardest lessons. Those who would misjudge that wisdom are meaner because they judge not wisely. That can surely only come from ageing, or listening carefully to those of us who have been there, done that, and have the tee shirts to prove it. (Sorry about that.)
8
I retired at the age of 65 no longer willing to work merely for the medical benefit package. Though having a degree in Social Work from Sydney University (1969) my work in the psychiatric field in the USA was mostly at the grass roots level. My supervisors were frequently young women in their late twenties or early thirties : RNs if I was working in an inpatient setting or Master's level psychology therapists if I was working in schools or out in the community. By retiring I pivoted to child care for my own grandchildren. This has proved fruitful. Currently my husband and I take care of two toddlers on two or three days a week enriching the child care experience of our grandchildren. Lying dormant for both of us is a wealth of experience which could be marshaled to encourage young families. One cannot dispense counseling without many layers of certification and also, I am not sure the young want to hear from us! So, we give ourselves permission to enjoy life as we move into our seventies.
5
I am fascinated and often delighted by how young people, middle-aged and even old person treat this old bumbling person. What I aealize on a clear day when I think, is you cannot generalize. There are as many attitudes as there are people. Often people are just lovely -- and then there are all the other times.
My problem if I can get the knees done and regain mobility will be what to do with my time. I wish there were clear volunteer opportunities for things like tutoring the young uns after school, teaching English to Second Language learners, making meals for the old ones (better quality than meals on wheels), staffing reading groups or other educational groups at the libraries. We need more public meeting spaces and more programs that are easy to hook up with. I bet there are thousands out there who feel like myself... and I don't think that institutions like Re-Serve can accommodate everyone who would love to help out. (Public schools do not want nonprofessionals to "help out" in most cases, FYI. Ditto the colleges that prefer to exploit both the adjuncts and their tuition paying students.)
My problem if I can get the knees done and regain mobility will be what to do with my time. I wish there were clear volunteer opportunities for things like tutoring the young uns after school, teaching English to Second Language learners, making meals for the old ones (better quality than meals on wheels), staffing reading groups or other educational groups at the libraries. We need more public meeting spaces and more programs that are easy to hook up with. I bet there are thousands out there who feel like myself... and I don't think that institutions like Re-Serve can accommodate everyone who would love to help out. (Public schools do not want nonprofessionals to "help out" in most cases, FYI. Ditto the colleges that prefer to exploit both the adjuncts and their tuition paying students.)
3
Ageing constitutes a challenge to one's perceived identity, to who one takes one's self to be. I quit dyeing my hair when I appreciated that doing so amounted to arguing with reality and would only postpone the days of reckoning with my own aging (I'm 64). It's been easy for me to maintain a sense of denial because I'm still healthy, still employed, still have lots of friends and, except for the various rumblings of my dreams and other subconscious eruptions of fears and anxieties, I still feel like I'm about 30--wondering what I'm going to do next, wondering whether or not I'm succeeding, hoping to be really surprised by life in good ways.
So…I look in the mirror now and wonder: Who IS this person? And who is she becoming? What's next?
And…can I hold in mind the possibility that my next chapters will be lovely in unanticipated ways? And can I be courageous if they prove to be difficult and challenging in ways that truly disrupt my equanimity?
I don't know….that's the thing.
So…I look in the mirror now and wonder: Who IS this person? And who is she becoming? What's next?
And…can I hold in mind the possibility that my next chapters will be lovely in unanticipated ways? And can I be courageous if they prove to be difficult and challenging in ways that truly disrupt my equanimity?
I don't know….that's the thing.
3
I like what you are saying. It's mirroring my own thoughts and feelings. I'm for humorous "combat" when it comes to the subject of rampant ageism that really exists. I, being an old hippie and rebel, am always cracking jokes about the new style of old age homes where the "silver-set" roll joints and snap their fingers to Jimi Hendrix and hum along with Led Zep. (I remember how we 20 year olds all were in hysterics when the Beatles sang "When I'm sixty-four, as in "what is that? people still live at that age?") Well, we'll finally do those "sit-ins" - literally, and for longer. I'm gonna enjoy my past without suffocating in nostalgia. Old and hip that's the way to go!
As one of the aged, I have multiple answers to the question posed in the article. "Why is youthfulness cast as positive and maturity disparaged in well-intentioned compliments about a boyish appearance and in the distaste for gray hair that keeps hairdressers in the style to which they are accustomed?" First, the answer depends on the age of who is making the comment. Second, the answer depends on the occupation and Third, the answer is vanity. In both my family and my wife, aging is accepted. Attempts to retain youth by makeup and hair coloring are not used by women in our respective families and those who marry in quickly figure it out and find it liberating. For men, letting yourself go physically is "just not done". No six pack abs but your BMI is always less than 25. As my wife and I both say, we earned every wrinkle and thankfully almost all of them are from laughter. We don't deny ageism exists, but in our careers as scientists, your productive output ranks much higher than your age and younger colleagues do respect the thoughts of their elders. For members of our family in the arts or business (particularly sales jobs), ageism is blatant and evident. In the end, the best bet is be yourself and be comfortable with yourself. By the time you reach my age, you no longer worry about others attitudes. As long as you are clean and neat in appearance and be able to carry out an intelligent thoughtful conversation, that is enough.
14
I believe my increasing ease with myself as I age more than compensates for the nicks and dents I've picked up in collisions with ageist attitudes.
10
This otherwise thought-provoking piece was completely undermined by the example in the final paragraph. Anyone who has worked in a school knows they are the safest places for older workers who want to get paid more each year for doing less. Not only does their tenure protect them from ever being fired (and there are plenty who deserve it and plenty who do not), but now being offered “financial inducements for early retirement” is considered ageist!! Seriously?!? If you are a productive older professor or teacher, don’t blame ageism for those uncomfortable financial inducements; blame your unproductive older colleagues who rest on their laurels. Every department has them.
1
This is what I call "unionism" and at this point I become a pure capitalist and put aside my good-for-all view of things. Pay for the job done and perhaps more if it's done well (not in government) not for the years on the job. It would better for society IMO if more people were employed for fewer hours -- four day work weeks max. I think everyone might be healthier and happier.
I think those commenting in this space should state their age. I am 68 and do volunteer work with seniors as a peer counselor. I have discovered many lovely and fascinating new friends in this way. These friends do not speak to me as if I have reverted to an infantile state and they also do not act as if I am invisible. There are millions of savvy older people. We are just at a different stage of life. As a special note to "What me worry," I have found that many older professionals (doctors, dental hygienists, mechanics, teachers) are so much better at what they do than their younger colleagues that I greatly prefer to deal with them.
4
Has anyone looked at the amount of volunteer work done by older, retired people? Based on my experience, I suspect it is substantial, and a huge economic and social contribution. Why is that never brought up when people talk about the "graying of America" being a problem. Maybe it's a Godsend.
7
I hate aging. A grumpy knee, a strained calf muscle, telomeres, everything conspiring to keep me out of the gym. I don't know what the point of the whole thing is anyway but I keep getting up, plugging away 'cause, one day, I may open up nytimes.com and--breaking news!--Secret of Life revealed! Til then, pass me the IcyHot.
6
Reminds me of my own maternal grandmother up in Victoria, BC. Lively and interested in everything until the very end. JG-
1
Much ado about the inevitable. Just keep moving.
4
It's the same old story: the Pope's comment said more about the pervasive bias from men against the aging of women than that of the population in general.
14
This is how old age can be...inspiring and bringing into play the learnings of a lifetime: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/23/magazine/old-masters-at-to...
Being old doesn't mean you're a saint. Its a second childhood. I'm 60. I picture a time I will give away my nestegg to a nice person on the phone, and badger my children to tend to my long list of unpleasant needs. I may have been a failure as a parent, a lifetime burden to the community and now serendipity is knocking on the door.
To fairly discuss ageism, lets discuss the burden of the aging world on youth. There are a lot of people getting old. Its a polarized picture where some people are reckless, sick and unprepared for that freight train at the end of life; while others have been extremely fortunate. Aging is more about problems than not. We do not have the gift of a future where anyone imagines us as giving back.
Aging America has money, votes and influence. The youth population, largely imported, is struggling economically. Its time to think of our mutual benefit and build strong bridges. If we want security and respect we need to give it.
As much as I want a fair shake a graceful aging, I want society to care for the young, many who are poor. I want youth to have the opportunities I had. I want my children to choose my nursing home and the staff there to be fairly paid.
To fairly discuss ageism, lets discuss the burden of the aging world on youth. There are a lot of people getting old. Its a polarized picture where some people are reckless, sick and unprepared for that freight train at the end of life; while others have been extremely fortunate. Aging is more about problems than not. We do not have the gift of a future where anyone imagines us as giving back.
Aging America has money, votes and influence. The youth population, largely imported, is struggling economically. Its time to think of our mutual benefit and build strong bridges. If we want security and respect we need to give it.
As much as I want a fair shake a graceful aging, I want society to care for the young, many who are poor. I want youth to have the opportunities I had. I want my children to choose my nursing home and the staff there to be fairly paid.
23
Old people provide lots of jobs for doctors, lawyers, dentists, construction workers, home helpers of all sorts. Lots of MDs would be poor if it weren't for medicaid and medicare. All those replacements cost big bucks.
BTW plenty of old people never need a nursing home and if the rich started paying their fair share of taxes again (from those with more, more is expected) -- maybe we could build very sensible public housing for oldsters that is a far cry economical and better situation from the assisted living facilities that I have seen, too often located in the middle of nowhere.
BTW plenty of old people never need a nursing home and if the rich started paying their fair share of taxes again (from those with more, more is expected) -- maybe we could build very sensible public housing for oldsters that is a far cry economical and better situation from the assisted living facilities that I have seen, too often located in the middle of nowhere.
1
The Pope's age and infertility ought to entitle him to talk on the subject.
I am 79, I wonder how long I should wait until I reach an age that entitles me to have an opinion on aging. I do not see much complaining about all the privileges that are afforded to older people, for instance I get significant discounts in many places.
Granted that there is not a specific age at which one becomes incapable of performing his job, but there is no question that the incidence of incapacity increases with advancing age. As a physician I have decided to relinquish my license to practice medicine; choosing to make a finite break while I still had good judgment, fearing that at the point that my judgment began to falter, I might no longer recognize the fact. Unfortunately, in my years of practicing medicine I have encountered several physicians who continued to practice while their mental faculties were faltering, to the detriment of their patients.
I am 79, I wonder how long I should wait until I reach an age that entitles me to have an opinion on aging. I do not see much complaining about all the privileges that are afforded to older people, for instance I get significant discounts in many places.
Granted that there is not a specific age at which one becomes incapable of performing his job, but there is no question that the incidence of incapacity increases with advancing age. As a physician I have decided to relinquish my license to practice medicine; choosing to make a finite break while I still had good judgment, fearing that at the point that my judgment began to falter, I might no longer recognize the fact. Unfortunately, in my years of practicing medicine I have encountered several physicians who continued to practice while their mental faculties were faltering, to the detriment of their patients.
1
The old are diverse! Some are productive and some are struggling with health issues. I think people should be valued and respected at all ages and we should not pit the generations against each other. My M-I-L died at 99 years old. She lived on her own until she was 96. I still miss her, her sense of humor and her wisdom.
2
Age mellows personality.
The "long view" sees things in perspective and places things in their proper place.
That's why statesmen are the elderly though they may be infirm.
The raging chemistry of youth is under control (or should be) and the reality of the end of life deepens one's life and hope for humanity.
Always ask advice from a wizened sage who has followed a moral part in life and you will get the wisdom of the ages.
The "long view" sees things in perspective and places things in their proper place.
That's why statesmen are the elderly though they may be infirm.
The raging chemistry of youth is under control (or should be) and the reality of the end of life deepens one's life and hope for humanity.
Always ask advice from a wizened sage who has followed a moral part in life and you will get the wisdom of the ages.
5
As long as your heart beats and your brain works get out of bed, be productive and enjoy life. It's a very short journey, turn off the noise and live.
My grandmother worked up until the last days of her life, got her High School degree in her 50's and went to college in her 70's. She was told all her life what she couldn't do and did it anyway.
As age creeps in on me I think of her often, get out of bed read the paper and go to work. Nobody can push you to the curb unless you let them.
My grandmother worked up until the last days of her life, got her High School degree in her 50's and went to college in her 70's. She was told all her life what she couldn't do and did it anyway.
As age creeps in on me I think of her often, get out of bed read the paper and go to work. Nobody can push you to the curb unless you let them.
20
Here's another pithy, to the point comment I appreciate and recommend. JG-
3
Loved your post-am sharing on FB...thank you!
1
Ageism is a fact of our lives, but we are partly to blame. We have allowed our looks and what we do, to be the measure of our worth. We have years of experience, some of us have wisdom and we yet, we have allowed who we are being in our relationships to be ignored. I am highly regarded by a group of young surfers in my home town because I listen to and ask questions about, who they are, the waves they have caught and the wipe-outs they have endured (in the water and in life). For most, I am the only mature adult male who does listen to them - so I don't have to do anything, I just be there. One of my heroes is Stephen Hawking - he is incapacitated beyond what most old people would have to endure, yet he enjoys the attention and admiration of every generation. We have a huge role to fulfill as Elders to the coming generations - and life can continuously improve as we get older, provided that, we continue to add value by creating and sustaining authentic relationships with others of all ages.
21
I am a woman of "that certain age", in her fifties. There is no denying I'm getting older and I certainly don't delude myself by comparing my aging process to that of a fine wine. However, there is also no denying that ageism is alive and well. My former career was very youth oriented. Aging was simply not allowed. Midlife, after my husband's death, I returned to university and earned an advanced degree. I changed fields to something I thought would allow me to age with grace. So far, so good. I do find it perverse that we fear what we will, one day, become. And the fact that only death will halt the aging process makes our fear that much more irrational. I'm not certain what can be done to change our attitudes, but I think we owe it to ourselves to live each day to its fullest, no matter what the age.
8
Older people are like everyone else -- some are not the brightest bulbs in the room and never were, some are burning bright, unbowed by age and honed by experience. The problem is that we are stereotyped and it works to our detriment both in getting a job (some of us need and/or want one) or thought to be comfortably retired, traveling, enjoying life.
When I entered the workforce, there were plenty of older people in the workplace -- and I don't just mean older than myself. I thought I had to wait for my chance to be respected, to make more money. Today, young people of talent can make 6-figure salaries in their 20's, some bazillionaires. It's no accident that people in certain industries are young, mostly white and male. It's discrimination, plain and simple. But we're supposed to go gently, not make a fuss. Where's the EEOC when you need them?
When I entered the workforce, there were plenty of older people in the workplace -- and I don't just mean older than myself. I thought I had to wait for my chance to be respected, to make more money. Today, young people of talent can make 6-figure salaries in their 20's, some bazillionaires. It's no accident that people in certain industries are young, mostly white and male. It's discrimination, plain and simple. But we're supposed to go gently, not make a fuss. Where's the EEOC when you need them?
7
The worst is compulsory retirement rules, invented more than a century ago and still maintained in most of Europe- age 65 or so, or even age 60. Under British India many officials had to retire at 58 and some states still retain that, under Communist groups' pressure to open up jobs or the younger people. Now finally judges in some states can stay till age 62 or 65-- only.
But I am 80 and doing well working in an international school, and I have more (non-professional) understanding of the future involving climate warming, ocean acidification, population growth, land surface change, biological species change, etc. than most younger people here. Old people either build on their relevant experience, or withdraw from current affairs. I often wish that younger professionals could be as concerned about the future of today's students, as the students in a few decades will experience the effect of the massive "acceleration" in human population and consumption since the 1950s.
But I am 80 and doing well working in an international school, and I have more (non-professional) understanding of the future involving climate warming, ocean acidification, population growth, land surface change, biological species change, etc. than most younger people here. Old people either build on their relevant experience, or withdraw from current affairs. I often wish that younger professionals could be as concerned about the future of today's students, as the students in a few decades will experience the effect of the massive "acceleration" in human population and consumption since the 1950s.
3
Maybe it's time for the students to learn to think about rampant reproduction?
Getting old is undeniable. Treating older adults with bias is not.
And I can't bring this up without the accompanying sexism that is still very much with us. When I'm in a store, in line behind an older man, I've experienced way too many times that the store clerk smiles and asks how he is, and then is all business with me.
We've lost as a culture respect for the wisdom of those with more experience (not that all become wiser with age). This has resulted in preventable error in all sectors of manufacturing, computing, and social problem-solving.
I was cocky too, at 30. Even at 40 I had a lot to learn. Now at 77 I shake my head at some of the ignorance of people with too much power to match their experience and knowledge. Instant gratification is a fallacy. It may be fast but it's also short-lived and based in greed. Sorry, Ayn Rand, but you were no more than a self-righteous, self-centered philosopher who appealed to the minds of the baby birds with mouths open, squawking for food to be brought to them.
And I can't bring this up without the accompanying sexism that is still very much with us. When I'm in a store, in line behind an older man, I've experienced way too many times that the store clerk smiles and asks how he is, and then is all business with me.
We've lost as a culture respect for the wisdom of those with more experience (not that all become wiser with age). This has resulted in preventable error in all sectors of manufacturing, computing, and social problem-solving.
I was cocky too, at 30. Even at 40 I had a lot to learn. Now at 77 I shake my head at some of the ignorance of people with too much power to match their experience and knowledge. Instant gratification is a fallacy. It may be fast but it's also short-lived and based in greed. Sorry, Ayn Rand, but you were no more than a self-righteous, self-centered philosopher who appealed to the minds of the baby birds with mouths open, squawking for food to be brought to them.
15
This should be a pick!!
Get over it Babies develop skills and responsibilities as they mature. Adults live productive lives as their skills reach their crescendo! Ah,then for all mankind -at some point unkown- we return to that beginning as we lose physical and intellectual capacities. It's called getting old, a fact of life to accept with grace,not blame.
3
Umhmm. Picasso painted well into his nineties. Getting older does not always result in such a great loss of physical or intellectual capacities as you think, newsy. There is a great variation in what the elderly can can do. Use it or lose it.
1
Ageism is nothing like racism or prejudice about social class because we all get old or die young. What the author calls ageism is more like denial. Old age is accompanied by loss of energy and physical capacity (including loss of fertility after menopause for women) and altered looks. Why is youthfulness cast as positive? Because it is positive, physically. Is maturity disparaged? Not at all, immaturity is disparaged. But the physical evidence of old age can be seen a sign of approaching illness and death. People aren't comfortable with that, and Americans go to extremes of denial about the end of life.
13
How sad for the whippersnappers who "know" that any age older than their present one holds only decline and shame. How terrifying to face such a future! Will they ever recognize the gifts still to come, or cast them aside unopened?
2
I am 84 years old. I am in no way offended by references to the realities of life at my age and deplore any effort to apply the excesses associated with political correctness to my situation. The Pope's use of a metaphor referring to the almost universal infertility of grandmothers is fine with me. I am male and may still be fertile, but declining potency is a reality and for me is also an acceptable metaphor.
I am sure that I was a victim of age discrimination in employment, going back to what seemed to be a clear case when I was 43. Some job skills improve with age and some decline. Basing hiring on people's real capabilities is necessary, and if age-related declines in ability exist pay offered can legitimately reflect these declines.
What I think is most destructive for old people is denial of the realities of aging through such things as cosmetically altering appearance, failing to make appropriate financial and medical provision for future eventualities, and insisting on futile efforts to put off the inevitable death that follows old age.
I am sure that I was a victim of age discrimination in employment, going back to what seemed to be a clear case when I was 43. Some job skills improve with age and some decline. Basing hiring on people's real capabilities is necessary, and if age-related declines in ability exist pay offered can legitimately reflect these declines.
What I think is most destructive for old people is denial of the realities of aging through such things as cosmetically altering appearance, failing to make appropriate financial and medical provision for future eventualities, and insisting on futile efforts to put off the inevitable death that follows old age.
16
Those of us who are now "old" and resenting ageism should try to remember that not so very many years ago we ourselves were guilty of being ageists. It seems like yesterday that I thought my beloved grandparents were too old to understand and navigate the modern world. And here I am. Karma, perhaps?
22
LOL, yes, but that only makes the phenomenon more troubling and intractable.
Inevitability.
Good comments. I was born of depression era and WW 2 parents. My small generation grew up with a definite appreciation for our parents and they and their friends wisdom. Then as my small generation matured. it became very noticeable that each generation in our culture is categorized. Typical part of our youth culture. Most advertising dollars are always spent on the young , featuring attractive people. News anchors are typically young blonde females. All articles written in newspapers usually include the persons age being written about. Get over it, our culture exclaims our species doesn't age well.
4
You are what you think you are. If you accept society's view of growing older, you will live up (or down) to society"s message of what to expect. What do you gain by expecting to fall apart? Nothing. Our cells are constantly renewing themselves. Just give them the right pattern of youth and good health in your mind, and they just might take care of the rest.
I found that by simply noticing when I am stooping over as if I am old (and most would say I am), I simply have to straighten up and walk as if I was a young person. It makes an amazing difference in how I feel about myself and how others see me. Luckily, I don't have to stoop over. It simply became a habit over the years. Being aware is so important. How you think of yourself and feel inside make all the difference.
I found that by simply noticing when I am stooping over as if I am old (and most would say I am), I simply have to straighten up and walk as if I was a young person. It makes an amazing difference in how I feel about myself and how others see me. Luckily, I don't have to stoop over. It simply became a habit over the years. Being aware is so important. How you think of yourself and feel inside make all the difference.
14
By pretending that you are young, you are simply nourishing the young's prejudice against the old.
If we want to feel old, we should have the right to do so. What we shouldn't have to do is to suffer contempt for continuing to breathe the same air as the youngsters.
If we want to feel old, we should have the right to do so. What we shouldn't have to do is to suffer contempt for continuing to breathe the same air as the youngsters.
7
To Live Forever?
There is more to growing old in Hawaii than meets the eye. The Kahuna told me about Hawaiian years, "One year is from one solar eclipse to the next." In Western years I am 70 years old. In Hawaiian years I am only 8 years old. (Eight solar eclipses over Hawaii since I was born) It changes my perspective. I wrote the "To Live Forever" trilogy about the other things the Hawaiian Kahuna taught me about how to reverse the "aging" program.
It's all in "To Live Forever" Books I, II, & III on www.Amazon.com
The Hawaiian Kahuna made me promise to write what she taught me so that everyone can live forever. I hope it works for you, too.
There is more to growing old in Hawaii than meets the eye. The Kahuna told me about Hawaiian years, "One year is from one solar eclipse to the next." In Western years I am 70 years old. In Hawaiian years I am only 8 years old. (Eight solar eclipses over Hawaii since I was born) It changes my perspective. I wrote the "To Live Forever" trilogy about the other things the Hawaiian Kahuna taught me about how to reverse the "aging" program.
It's all in "To Live Forever" Books I, II, & III on www.Amazon.com
The Hawaiian Kahuna made me promise to write what she taught me so that everyone can live forever. I hope it works for you, too.
3
Some old people are VERY old, some are NOT. This is life, not something that can be turned on it's head. When I think of how my mother acted when she was the age I am now, and I feel VERY young, not VERY old. See? That's how it works. Don't complicate things, just live your life!
3
When all positive traits are identified as young, and all negative traits attributed to age, you can only describe yourself in a positive way by calling yourself young. In fact, I think there's more variation among us, the older we get. I really, really hate it when someone attempts to compliment me by calling me young. It's like complimenting a Black person by calling them white, or a woman by telling her she "thinks like a man."
7
My favorite quote from that article by Anne Karpf is: Ageism has been described as prejudice against one's future self. So true, so true!
33
Old, young, white, black, Asian-American, immigrant, refugee, reviled rich, now illegal poor - we all have something to deal with...in the meantime, I'm not going to let ageism spoil my pleasure in the moon, cooking, family, friends, books, the dog, walks, or anything else for that matter...
19
Sounds like you think discrimination is inevitable so forget about it instead of something we should all fight against in order to build a more enlightened society. Don't you understand how many lives go off the rails due to the poison of discrimination? But as long as you're happy in your own backyard looking at the moon...
10
Aren't you lucky that you don't need a job and thus don't have to suffer from the discrimination that no law can do anything to relieve? Interview after interview we do our best -- and still we get that letter informing us that the candidate that was chosen "had the qualifications that best matched our requirements." Or something.
Years ago, I was a woman in a "man's" field. Today, I'm an old woman in a "young woman's" field.
Have you considered adding "Sensitivity Training" to your list of things you do?
Years ago, I was a woman in a "man's" field. Today, I'm an old woman in a "young woman's" field.
Have you considered adding "Sensitivity Training" to your list of things you do?
18
Don't feel bad, my daughter has been getting the same response to jobs for over two years now and she is a young woman with a good degree from a good university. There are no jobs out there.
Ageism is a concept invented by those that benefit from it. Our western culture prefers youth ever since Twiggy became a roll model. "Stand back, youth will solve everything!"
I'm a baby boomer. I'd prefer the best ideas win out no matter who they come from. No age group has a death grip on good solutions to problems.
I'm a baby boomer. I'd prefer the best ideas win out no matter who they come from. No age group has a death grip on good solutions to problems.
8
While visiting in Korea, I heard of two siblings arguing over which would have the privilege of taking care of their elderly parents.
Why not here?
Why not here?
29
In an age when economic analysis is so dominant, I would have thought that the demographic factors that have benefited the baby boomers their entire lives would come into play here. Can we really afford the economic costs of so many talented individuals ending their productive lives earlier than necessary because of a subtle prejudice concerning age? Yet, when we look at who lost their jobs in the most recent recession, remain on the unemployment rolls and seemingly will retire before opportunity knocks, we can see that subtle prejudice (and not so subtle stereotype) at play.
10
Maybe if parents would sit down and talk to their kids about, hello, having some respect and manners that would be nice. I actually think ageism is a real growing problem in the United States, from treating those over 60 like incompetent toddlers to outright job discrimination and mockery out in society. A couple of months ago I saw a bunch of teenage boys taunting a woman walking along a NYC city street...they called out, 'hey old lady!" and followed her, jeering. And this woman wasn't even that old...maybe 65 and well dressed (not that that should make a difference) She was in tears (a bunch of us yelled at the boys to buzz off).
Those boys were like a pack of wolves but you could tell they came from middle class homes because of their clothing and haircuts, etc. Maybe it's all this marketing frenzy geared to millennials that is making ageism worse. Terrible cruelty and so stupid. 60 years old is still young enough to start a business, take a risk, go for an adventure. Society shouldn't treat people like they have a shelf life, it's inhuman. But seems like America is getting crueler and crueler every year
Those boys were like a pack of wolves but you could tell they came from middle class homes because of their clothing and haircuts, etc. Maybe it's all this marketing frenzy geared to millennials that is making ageism worse. Terrible cruelty and so stupid. 60 years old is still young enough to start a business, take a risk, go for an adventure. Society shouldn't treat people like they have a shelf life, it's inhuman. But seems like America is getting crueler and crueler every year
58
No one should think that that group of teenage boys you mention is somehow indicative or typical for that matter. You've no idea what may have prefaced that exchange you saw between the boys and that woman....perhaps there was something particular that she said or did that caused them to want to ridicule her. Not that that excuses how they treated her but.... I'm sure these boys have seen a 60+ year old person before, and don't mock every 'elderly' person they see...
1
60 years old is still young enough to write a paycheck. Those of us who are entrepreneurs are the ones who make it possible for millennials to have the purchasing power that ad agencies’ clients seek to tap...and we can also make that well run dry. A word to the wise.....there are still reasons to respect your elders. You never know when your resources will depend on it.
10
Frank Lloyd Wright was 90 when he designed the Guggenheim. What is wrong with us that we automatically walk away from creative and productive people simply because they are past a certain age.
My grandson decided to call me by my first name only because he did not think of me as a grandma. Now, I realize that there is a mixed message there -- but I'll take "Carrie" over grandma anyday.
My grandson decided to call me by my first name only because he did not think of me as a grandma. Now, I realize that there is a mixed message there -- but I'll take "Carrie" over grandma anyday.
3
Aging is normal; aging gracefully is a virtue; and age has 'nothing' to do with it. As long as we can recognize truth and beauty as active participants, paying less attention to what others may think, maintaining our interests alive, recognizing we never etop learning, keeping an open mind to the ever changing world of ours, and not taking ourselves too seriously, getting up over and over when falling or failing, and speaking out for those who suffer but can't do it themselves, if we can do that, 'ageism be damned.
16
The surest way to guard against premature aging is to remain mindful of our senior responsibility to support investment in the development of our youth and to vote accordingly.
The surest way for youth to capitalize on such investment is to emulate their elders and VOTE like there IS a tomorrow.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The surest way for youth to capitalize on such investment is to emulate their elders and VOTE like there IS a tomorrow.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
26
well said and a great comment.
1
I try to remember that only the lucky ones get there, to old age. The not so lucky ones die young. It keeps it in perspective.
28
Actually more sexist than ageist. How old is the pope again?
26
The finest line we have to walk as we age is that separating so denying our age and limitations that we make fools of ourselves, and so embracing its limitations and restrictions - and those imposed by society, that life loses its meaning and value.
While almost all human activities require adjustment as we age - exercise, creativity, sex, exploration, and especially self-reinvention, there is no reason that we should feel compelled to give any of them up.
While almost all human activities require adjustment as we age - exercise, creativity, sex, exploration, and especially self-reinvention, there is no reason that we should feel compelled to give any of them up.
9
In many societies the elders are considered the wise ones, they are revered and sought out for counsel and support. As a psychotherapist , I notice how important the role of grandparents is in our own society, as often children can find a safe haven in the homes and hearts of understanding grandparents. As I am entering "mature age" having turned 60, I do not mind the lines, the sags, and the rest of the package that comes with it. Those signpost for ageing have a story to tell, a rich past and as long as I keep myself healthy I feel grateful to be who I am at any age.
25
Aging is difficult indeed, but the main component of successful aging in my opinion is to keep one's sense of humor, despite the health challenges.. If you laugh the world laughs with you they say!!! However, in United States in particular we noticed that as soon as you turn 60 or so you become transparent to cashiers, waiters etc, unless you are dressed to the nines, and become a tad "obnoxious". Sad indictment of this society
17
Interesting but also puzzling, as I haven't experienced that phenomenon. One does observe the absence of sexual interest.
At 71, the Pope is right - I'm no longer "fertile or vibrant". I try to always look my best but young I am no longer.
My greatest concern about getting older is the attitude that we've had a good live, it's been relatively long, and that we're now using up medical resources that could be better spent (and more affordably), on those much younger. We're high expendable and really should promote assisted suicide and move on so our children can inherit and afford college for their children. Unfortunately, many of the elderly have bought into this with the belief that they are better off doing this to themselves, then wait for their children to do it to them.
My greatest concern about getting older is the attitude that we've had a good live, it's been relatively long, and that we're now using up medical resources that could be better spent (and more affordably), on those much younger. We're high expendable and really should promote assisted suicide and move on so our children can inherit and afford college for their children. Unfortunately, many of the elderly have bought into this with the belief that they are better off doing this to themselves, then wait for their children to do it to them.
9
I am about to turn 60 and agree with the premise that there comes a time to "leave the building." Our medical practitioners are extending life needlessly, creating a huge number of old people just hanging on, not contributing to or enjoying life. Nothing wrong with a society have a dialog about how old is too old.
How we feel about ourselves is most important.
9
In spite of knee replacement, cataract surgery, a mastectomy, and a minor heart attack, I'm still fortunate enough to be working steadily as a temp at a publishing company, where the copy chief appreciates my experience. She knows I just turned 71, but most people don't (and I hope I don't look it--whatever 71 is supposed to look like these days). I have come to terms with the fact that I will never be mistaken for Taylor Swift, but it does annoy me when i and my peers are ignored or patronized while younger folk with less to offer are welcomed. My mother is 94--she has an excuse to sit home and play solitaire on her computer, but my generation is still active and interested in work, play, and love!
45
Great comment.
In fact you inspire me. I've been using chronic pain as an excuse for not pursuing paid assignments. Yet I yammer on here endlessly. Food for thought in the coming months, to seek more balance, make better use of my time, and not assume my productive life is "done" just because I can't do everything I used to for as long as I used to.
In fact you inspire me. I've been using chronic pain as an excuse for not pursuing paid assignments. Yet I yammer on here endlessly. Food for thought in the coming months, to seek more balance, make better use of my time, and not assume my productive life is "done" just because I can't do everything I used to for as long as I used to.
7
There are many ways in which our society diminishes the lives of the elderly but, now that I'm an obviously senior citizen, I find I get surprising, unsolicited help when I experience minor, everyday fumblings and befuddlements. These are the same, everyday fumblings and befuddlements that I experienced when I was young, but for which I wasn't treated nearly as sympathetically as I am nowadays. I call it "playing the old man card," much to my wife's eye-rolling amusement.
28
I will admit that I gratefully accept a seat on the subway--that's the one benefit of using a cane!
20
Growing old in Hawaii is the way to do it. Hawaiians expect old folks to enjoy life, sing and dance, wear bright colors, have sex, create art, and feel entitled to respect. Very different from mainland USA.
70
Professor Dubrow makes excellent points about how language (particularly adjectives) colors our perceptions of gender, race, and now, age. It seems America spends all its energy on rectifying inequities across every social and demographic group except its older citizens--who, unlike those in countries where age is revered, suffer the slights of invisibility.
And dispensability. I'm sure the common feeling towards those with fewer, not more years ahead of them is, why bother? Why bother to recognize their contributions, their worth, their needs? It's sort of a callous, utilitarian, commodity based view that assigns human worth based on productivity and consumption: the energy of youth, the drag of the infirm.
Look, nobody wants to grow old, but everyone will. America has a definite fear of aging, which can make people speak and behave badly-- as if devaluing the elderly will slow down their own journey through time.
And dispensability. I'm sure the common feeling towards those with fewer, not more years ahead of them is, why bother? Why bother to recognize their contributions, their worth, their needs? It's sort of a callous, utilitarian, commodity based view that assigns human worth based on productivity and consumption: the energy of youth, the drag of the infirm.
Look, nobody wants to grow old, but everyone will. America has a definite fear of aging, which can make people speak and behave badly-- as if devaluing the elderly will slow down their own journey through time.
64
In this glorious day and age, I'm not sure who's having more purely elective cosmetic surgery - women trying to retain a youthful appearance especially for today's dating game (and 'game' it most definitely is), or men trying to hold on to a youthful, fit appearance so they can hold onto their white-collar jobs. (And it's not just facial features anymore. There are plenty of enhancements to the trunk done as well, to maintain a muscular appearance that proved elusive in the gym. For a DESK job.) It seems that in seriously competitive places, such as (obviously) New York, D.C., L.A. and the Silicon Valley - Bay area, there's an Eleventh Commandment for The Office: Thou shalt retain the appearance of the fit, attractive yuppie or model, or thou shalt get pink slipped.
Then again, every hour on the hour I get an up-to-date report on this 'cultural' (?) phenomenon. From that little bird in the clock.
Then again, every hour on the hour I get an up-to-date report on this 'cultural' (?) phenomenon. From that little bird in the clock.
23
Still, women do get just as much ageism on the job, if not more, than men. The elective procedures are done to make sure we can keep our jobs, too.
7
Sorry but I don't buy this notion that one 'must' get elective procedures in order to keep one's job. The problem of course is that the more people who give in to this (and what a great excuse to get some work done, eh?...'I had to do this in order to keep my job.' lol)..... the more this will become a reality. But if people simply said 'enough....I refuse to go under the knife in order to keep my job', this supposed 'requirement' would disappear.
And just what kind of jobs are we talking about anyway, that one would feel the need to go under the knife in order to keep it?....news anchor?...businessman? How hard up can these people be that they couldn't get another job? Oh but that's right...they've probably financed themselves up to the hilt and so the notion of getting less pay or having to downsize is too unfathomable to them. Better to just get a facelift and be done with it.
And just what kind of jobs are we talking about anyway, that one would feel the need to go under the knife in order to keep it?....news anchor?...businessman? How hard up can these people be that they couldn't get another job? Oh but that's right...they've probably financed themselves up to the hilt and so the notion of getting less pay or having to downsize is too unfathomable to them. Better to just get a facelift and be done with it.
3
“When...is it acceptable to be influenced by the perception that younger applicants are likely to use their training for more years or simply stay in the job longer?”
The answer, of course, is “never,” because the truth is actually the opposite: young people are more likely to see a job as a “stepping stone” (moving on in a few years), while older people are more likely to remain in a job since they tend to be more “stable” (financially, demographically, etc.).
In hospitality, ageism is rampant. As concierge, Maitre d’ and host, I interacted with the public. As I got older, it became increasingly difficult for me to find work, since those jobs want “pretty young faces” (often with little experience) greeting people, not a 50-something man with salt-and-pepper hair (despite over a decade of experience). It would be overly kind to suggest that, in my two years of unemployment, only 50% of my rejections were due to ageism; it is probably closer to 70%. And, of course, since it is illegal to discriminate based on age, it is impossible to know, for certain, whether ageism was the deciding factor. Such is the dilemma.
In many other countries – including in Asia, the Middle East, and even some in Europe and South America – older age is revered. It seems that only in Western “First World” countries (particularly the U.S. and U.K.) is “age” an “issue” – one that is not only not approached with reverence, but is seen as a “problem” to be “solved.”
The answer, of course, is “never,” because the truth is actually the opposite: young people are more likely to see a job as a “stepping stone” (moving on in a few years), while older people are more likely to remain in a job since they tend to be more “stable” (financially, demographically, etc.).
In hospitality, ageism is rampant. As concierge, Maitre d’ and host, I interacted with the public. As I got older, it became increasingly difficult for me to find work, since those jobs want “pretty young faces” (often with little experience) greeting people, not a 50-something man with salt-and-pepper hair (despite over a decade of experience). It would be overly kind to suggest that, in my two years of unemployment, only 50% of my rejections were due to ageism; it is probably closer to 70%. And, of course, since it is illegal to discriminate based on age, it is impossible to know, for certain, whether ageism was the deciding factor. Such is the dilemma.
In many other countries – including in Asia, the Middle East, and even some in Europe and South America – older age is revered. It seems that only in Western “First World” countries (particularly the U.S. and U.K.) is “age” an “issue” – one that is not only not approached with reverence, but is seen as a “problem” to be “solved.”
73
And yet, if you're lucky, you will get old or consider the alternative.
I think the western attitude about age is also related to how we think about and treat death.
Old = death and Americans want to face neither.
I think the western attitude about age is also related to how we think about and treat death.
Old = death and Americans want to face neither.
48
Considering that such a great proportion of the population is over 65, and many are living longer healthier lives and want to travel and enjoy their retirement, I would think that the hospitality industry would appreciate older employees who could identify with those customers and anticipate their needs more quickly than twentysomethings. I know I would (but I don't run a hotel).
41
We recently had a Republican presidential wannabe give us the term 'death panel' when the idea was put out that doctors would be paid to talk to the elderly about their wishes for how they should be cared for when they are ill and near the end of their lives.
Of course, THAT idea was quickly shot down and no doctor wants to bring up the subject now, as apparently most patients assume he will keep them living forever somehow.
I agree that most Americans don't think about death nor believe that it can happen. That is why getting the elderly to make living wills and have their wishes known about their funerals just isn't very popular.
Of course, THAT idea was quickly shot down and no doctor wants to bring up the subject now, as apparently most patients assume he will keep them living forever somehow.
I agree that most Americans don't think about death nor believe that it can happen. That is why getting the elderly to make living wills and have their wishes known about their funerals just isn't very popular.
12