How do we square our righteous indignation about these things with the fact that
American companies sell the armaments to both sides of these horror stories?
Our nation reaps gigantic financial benefit from war and has agents in the field
whispering "rumors" of war to increase the sales of weapons. The equal of Mr.
Pilecki today is hidden in Russia for exposing the high crimes of our NSA and others. Thank you, Edward Snowden.
American companies sell the armaments to both sides of these horror stories?
Our nation reaps gigantic financial benefit from war and has agents in the field
whispering "rumors" of war to increase the sales of weapons. The equal of Mr.
Pilecki today is hidden in Russia for exposing the high crimes of our NSA and others. Thank you, Edward Snowden.
9
“Few are guilty, but all are responsible.”
― Abraham Joshua Heschel, The Prophets"
Were we more responsive to acts of evil then we would not share responsibility for them through our inaction. Heschel's legacy included this epigram. Not caring and not doing is society's crfime
― Abraham Joshua Heschel, The Prophets"
Were we more responsive to acts of evil then we would not share responsibility for them through our inaction. Heschel's legacy included this epigram. Not caring and not doing is society's crfime
7
So, what 2 or 3 things should we as individuals do, and what 2 or 3 things should our government do, noting that we've seen the failure of so many of our well-intended policies? Can nations and cultures be changed from the outside in?
2
We should also never forget the slavic Victims of WWII, especially Poles (3-4 millions) and Russians (20-25 millions).
J.I.
J.I.
8
The basic point made is that commemorating and remembering the Holocaust is not a "Jewish thing," but a valid humanitarian effort to make an important shift in human consciousness and values. Thank you!
5
When Hitler was solidifying power in the 1930s, the United States was in the midst of its greatest crisis since the Civil War. It was in no position to go to the aid of others. When it did become involved it was not a humanitarian mission, but rather an effort to preserve our very existence.
There are more recent examples: Pol Pot's murder of at least a million Cambodians; Idi Amin's murder of at least half a million Ugandans; Bosnian Serbs' extermination of Bosnian Muslims. Why did we let these things happen?
The US never engaged Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge because we were still trying to recover from Viet Nam. We had no resources to rescue the unfortunate victims in Uganda in 1971 because we were already fully engaged in Vietnam. Bosnia caught us somewhat by surprise.
Atrocities happen in the absence of the will of the civilized world to prevent them. That absence can be the consequence of economic hardship, as in 1933, or war weariness as in 1975, or as a result of an unanticipated vacuum in regional power, as in 1995.
Today, the will of the civilized world is waning. The United States simply does not have unlimited treasure, lives or political capital to spend whenever or wherever evil festers. Our recent wars in the Middle East, presumably to reign in evil, have been unmitigated disasters. ISIS and the Taliban are on a murderous terror.
Just a reality check on your retrospective analysis. In the present, doing good is rarely easy or obvious.
There are more recent examples: Pol Pot's murder of at least a million Cambodians; Idi Amin's murder of at least half a million Ugandans; Bosnian Serbs' extermination of Bosnian Muslims. Why did we let these things happen?
The US never engaged Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge because we were still trying to recover from Viet Nam. We had no resources to rescue the unfortunate victims in Uganda in 1971 because we were already fully engaged in Vietnam. Bosnia caught us somewhat by surprise.
Atrocities happen in the absence of the will of the civilized world to prevent them. That absence can be the consequence of economic hardship, as in 1933, or war weariness as in 1975, or as a result of an unanticipated vacuum in regional power, as in 1995.
Today, the will of the civilized world is waning. The United States simply does not have unlimited treasure, lives or political capital to spend whenever or wherever evil festers. Our recent wars in the Middle East, presumably to reign in evil, have been unmitigated disasters. ISIS and the Taliban are on a murderous terror.
Just a reality check on your retrospective analysis. In the present, doing good is rarely easy or obvious.
7
Witold Pilecki was tried, convicted, and executed for being a commander in the underground Polish terrorist army after 1945, as I write in my Letter to the Editor of the Times on July 12, 2012 ("A Death in Poland"). It is online at
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/books/review/a-death-in-poland.html
There is no evidence that he was tortured.
The Polish underground murdered Polish communists, former members of the pro-communist Armia Ludowa ("People's Army"), and anyone whom they considered to be pro-communist.
The Polish underground murdered Jews simply because they were Jews.
No country would tolerate a violent terrorist underground, even if it called itself "patriotic", "freedom fighters", and so on.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/books/review/a-death-in-poland.html
There is no evidence that he was tortured.
The Polish underground murdered Polish communists, former members of the pro-communist Armia Ludowa ("People's Army"), and anyone whom they considered to be pro-communist.
The Polish underground murdered Jews simply because they were Jews.
No country would tolerate a violent terrorist underground, even if it called itself "patriotic", "freedom fighters", and so on.
7
Thank you Mr. Kristof for your column on Cavalry Cpt. Pilecki. As you have added aside of the main story, your relatives also perished in the German death camp. This, I hope, makes you understand more. Pilecki is an outstanding example of heroism, underestimated in Poland (where post-communists retain their overwhelming influence) and world-wide ('cause he was eventually murdered not by Nazis he had fought but by - oops... - Che's ideological comrades).
3
What are we to make of those who demonstrate great cruelty and also great courage?
I admire greatly the Kurdish resistance to Da'ish. I have advocated for a completely independent Kurdish state for decades. I supported the military action taken by the USA and its allies against Saddam only because of Saddam's treatment of the Kurds.
Nevertheless, if you read about the Armenian Genocide in any detail, then you soon discover that while the Genocide was coordinated by the Turkish authorities in Ankara, many of the worst atrocities were carried out by Kurdish irregulars or bandits. And Kurds again murdered Assyrians during the Assyrian Massacres of 1914-1918 in Urmi, Iran. To learn more, read James Bryce and Arnold Joseph Toynbee, 'The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916: Documents Presented to Viscount Grey of Falloden by Viscount Bryce'. [1]
1) Toynbee, Arnold Joseph, ed. The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916. HM Stationery Office, 1916. https://books.google.com/books/download/The_Treatment_of_Armenians_in_th...
I admire greatly the Kurdish resistance to Da'ish. I have advocated for a completely independent Kurdish state for decades. I supported the military action taken by the USA and its allies against Saddam only because of Saddam's treatment of the Kurds.
Nevertheless, if you read about the Armenian Genocide in any detail, then you soon discover that while the Genocide was coordinated by the Turkish authorities in Ankara, many of the worst atrocities were carried out by Kurdish irregulars or bandits. And Kurds again murdered Assyrians during the Assyrian Massacres of 1914-1918 in Urmi, Iran. To learn more, read James Bryce and Arnold Joseph Toynbee, 'The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916: Documents Presented to Viscount Grey of Falloden by Viscount Bryce'. [1]
1) Toynbee, Arnold Joseph, ed. The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916. HM Stationery Office, 1916. https://books.google.com/books/download/The_Treatment_of_Armenians_in_th...
2
Mr. Kristof, you are exactly right - we shouldn't be paralyzed when the worst atrocities are being committed. At the same time, when Allied powers finally did act and finally did reach Auschwitz and the other death camps, millions of soldiers and people fighting in the war had died, been tortured, severely injured, etc. And although I don't think millions of soldiers would die going into Sudan, S. Sudan, or Congo (I think that could happen in Syria), leaders do have to calculate how many soldiers will likely die and if their citizens will continue to support the effort once they do start dying. President Obama does come across as a hypocrite for criticizing Bush for not going into Sudan and then being silent on it today. However, America has spent a lot of money and resources and has incurred casualties from the wrong-headed, unnecessary war in Iraq and the ill-planned war in Afghanistan. Obama has also faced a Congress who has said no to nearly everything he proposes. I wish very much that we would do something to stop the slaughters, but our country is polarized, Republicans now dominate Congress and are mostly interested in going after Iran, we're still tired from Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and our economy is only turning around now. The challenge is, given those factors and the complex natures of the genocides taking place, what strategies could we get passed in Congress and effectively implement, to at minimum, abate the violence?
1
Because everyone else will undoubtedly say the same things I would say anyway, I will say something no one else is likely to say.
'Should Japan apologise for enslaving "comfort women"?'
It is disgraceful anyone should even be asking that question.
Japan has gotten off easy in the West's recollections of WW II, for several reasons. Truman's bid to avoid a land invasion by dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had the unintended side effect of turning the Japanese into victims. NYT comment threads are often filled with progressives bewailing the evil West for inflicting thousands of civilian casualties through a novel weapon in order to avoid millions of deaths by more conventional means. Media. The Nazis make better Hollywood villains - those uniforms, that hierarchy. With a few exceptions, the war in Europe dominates our thrillers and fiction. Thus, everyone knows Himmler, few recall Tojo; Auschwitz is common, the Rape of Nanking an obscure historic event; Mengele's atrocities are notorious, the vivisection and experiments of Japan's Unit 713 are obscure. Lastly, racism: most of the victims of Imperial Japan were fellow Asians. There is no large, organised Western community comparable to the Jewish community to say 'never again'.
The Germans have turned somersaults for 70 years apologising. From Japan, silence is broken only for defensiveness and denials. The right wing is strong there and even now engaging in historical revisionism.
'Should Japan apologise for enslaving "comfort women"?'
It is disgraceful anyone should even be asking that question.
Japan has gotten off easy in the West's recollections of WW II, for several reasons. Truman's bid to avoid a land invasion by dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had the unintended side effect of turning the Japanese into victims. NYT comment threads are often filled with progressives bewailing the evil West for inflicting thousands of civilian casualties through a novel weapon in order to avoid millions of deaths by more conventional means. Media. The Nazis make better Hollywood villains - those uniforms, that hierarchy. With a few exceptions, the war in Europe dominates our thrillers and fiction. Thus, everyone knows Himmler, few recall Tojo; Auschwitz is common, the Rape of Nanking an obscure historic event; Mengele's atrocities are notorious, the vivisection and experiments of Japan's Unit 713 are obscure. Lastly, racism: most of the victims of Imperial Japan were fellow Asians. There is no large, organised Western community comparable to the Jewish community to say 'never again'.
The Germans have turned somersaults for 70 years apologising. From Japan, silence is broken only for defensiveness and denials. The right wing is strong there and even now engaging in historical revisionism.
7
Mr. Kristof, when will heroes step up and speak out on behalf of Palestinians who continue to be displaced, abused, and have their homes destroyed simply because they are of the wrong ethnicity and the wrong religion. It's not that what is happening to them is any worse than many other atrocities around the world, it is how the press continues to justify it. When will this end? When will we say that they are human too and deserving of as many rights to life, liberty, and property as anyone else?
3
Thank you for putting the Armenian Genocide in the same sentence as the Shoah. Even though Mr. Ergodan wouldn't approve, such measures are necessary not to allow 6 million deaths to eclipse 1.5 million.
3
I'm surprised that in the list of atrocities being observed this year, you make no mention of April and the sad end of the U S Civil War. I understand a number of ethnic Africans were freed from lifetime bondage.
1
Boko Haram in Nigeria. Al Shabbab in Somalia and Kenya. Israel in the West Bank and Gaza and the Golan Heights. America in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. What about those atrocities?
The Soviet Union calls World War II, The Great Patriotic War. With 27. 5 million war dead at the hands of the Aryan Nazi German onslaught a generation of primarily men but women and children vanished in a holocaust.
China calls World War II the War Against Japanese Aggression. With 30 million claimed dead no nation suffered more during World War II.
About 500 nameless faceless Palestinian kids died in the Israeli Operation Cast Lead among the 75% of 2100 civilian dead. Boko Haram has killed the faceless nameless by the thousands. Some victims seem more worthy and mourned than others. In a mere 90 days the Hutu slew 800,000 mostly Tutsi in Rwanda. Some perpetrators crimes are ignored. Unlike slavery and Jim Crow and Native American genocide the Holocaust did not happen in America to Americans by Americans.
See " The Problem From Hell " by Samantha Power
The Soviet Union calls World War II, The Great Patriotic War. With 27. 5 million war dead at the hands of the Aryan Nazi German onslaught a generation of primarily men but women and children vanished in a holocaust.
China calls World War II the War Against Japanese Aggression. With 30 million claimed dead no nation suffered more during World War II.
About 500 nameless faceless Palestinian kids died in the Israeli Operation Cast Lead among the 75% of 2100 civilian dead. Boko Haram has killed the faceless nameless by the thousands. Some victims seem more worthy and mourned than others. In a mere 90 days the Hutu slew 800,000 mostly Tutsi in Rwanda. Some perpetrators crimes are ignored. Unlike slavery and Jim Crow and Native American genocide the Holocaust did not happen in America to Americans by Americans.
See " The Problem From Hell " by Samantha Power
3
While it is convenient for the sake of discussion or for fund raising purposes to conflate Jewish genocide with all the other genocides, Jewish persecution and genocide is unique, and to compare it to any other crimes is to fail to understand the uniqueness of what happened to at least six million Jewish men, women and children in Europe in the twentieth century. That Jews have been persecuted for the last two thousand years is often forgotten. Equally forgotten are the Jews who were expelled from their homes, tortured and murdered with impunity during those two millennia, years before the ascent of Hitler and Nazism. In most of the cases cited by Mr Kristof there was usually enmity between people based on conflict over land, prejudice and crimes against African-American being the exception. With Jews there was no conflict over land. Simply being was their "crime". No other people has ever been scheduled for mass extermination as an industrial process. The Jewish experience is unique, and should not be conflated with the terrible things that have happened and are still happening today. And, by-the-way, Jews are still being murdered with near impunity,while the world looks on with only mild disapproval. Yes, mass murders are evil and should be condemned by all, but this should be done without comparing these crimes to the tortured deaths of six million people out of a population of eight million. That comparison denigrates the suffering of those six million.
Alex Levy
Alex Levy
7
And what of the American genocides? For instance, the 3 million killed in Vietnam? Or the 1 million killed in Iraq? Or the American support -- financial, political, and military -- for the 1975 Indonesian genocide in East Timor? Or the American genocide of the indigenous natives of this continent?
I guess it only counts as genocide if it's undertaken by one of the U.S.'s enemies. Otherwise, we simply ignore and forget it.
I guess it only counts as genocide if it's undertaken by one of the U.S.'s enemies. Otherwise, we simply ignore and forget it.
2
Given the events unfolding in Iraq and Syria, the argument that one must do something to oppose the perpetrators of violence and genocide puts those on the left in a precarious position. Does one oppose the horrors inflicted by ISIL with words only, or does one demand that ISIL be stopped with military force?
Standing up and saying that genocide is wrong is easy. Actually working to stop it is not. What is worse--not actively doing anything meaningful to stop genocide, or taking actions that have morally ambiguous consequences? And if the decision is made to go out and stop genocide by force, is it right to demand that others sacrifice their lives for your moral stand? Particularly if you are not willing to go and do so yourself?
Standing up and saying that genocide is wrong is easy. Actually working to stop it is not. What is worse--not actively doing anything meaningful to stop genocide, or taking actions that have morally ambiguous consequences? And if the decision is made to go out and stop genocide by force, is it right to demand that others sacrifice their lives for your moral stand? Particularly if you are not willing to go and do so yourself?
4
Two questions: First what is Mr. Kristof personally doing to stop genocide? (Writing columns doesn't count.) Second, what does he think the US should do to stop genocide?
But if we are are going to get serious about stopping genocide, here are a few of my suggestions:
1. To defeat the genocidal Boko Haram, we should assist the British in re-colonizing Nigeria. The corrupt Nigerian government isn't going to do anything, so unless we take over the country, we will remain bystanders.
2. Similarly, we should assist the French in re-colonizing Syria, getting rid of both Assad and ISIS and establishing a caretaker government.
I make these suggestions to point out how difficult it is to address these issues unless we want to take on the role of the world's policeman. I don't think too many of the NYT readers will support the US taking on that role. At one point in history the Democratic party was the party supporting intervention in world affairs while the Republicans were the isolationists. Now it appears positions are reversed.
But if we are are going to get serious about stopping genocide, here are a few of my suggestions:
1. To defeat the genocidal Boko Haram, we should assist the British in re-colonizing Nigeria. The corrupt Nigerian government isn't going to do anything, so unless we take over the country, we will remain bystanders.
2. Similarly, we should assist the French in re-colonizing Syria, getting rid of both Assad and ISIS and establishing a caretaker government.
I make these suggestions to point out how difficult it is to address these issues unless we want to take on the role of the world's policeman. I don't think too many of the NYT readers will support the US taking on that role. At one point in history the Democratic party was the party supporting intervention in world affairs while the Republicans were the isolationists. Now it appears positions are reversed.
1
I am Jewish but I disagree with your approach. If you are the victim, it does not matter what your ethnicity is. You are being tortured. Your people and you are being killed in mass. Was to worse to be Jewish in a concentration camp than being one of those teen age girls kidnapped in Nigeria? I don't see a difference. As Mr Kristof says, let's use our energies to fight injustice today as a memorial to those who dies from injustice yesterday.
5
The World Jewish Congress has posted a video by Steven Spielberg about Auschwitz and Birkinau on Facebook. Useful when coupled with the fact that a BBC survey recently found that 45% of Britons had no idea what Auschwitz was (60% of women under 35!).
At the very least remembering Auschwitz should sensitize us, as Kristof does, to ongoing savagery--think Boko Haram.
Here's the FB link: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153051883204805
At the very least remembering Auschwitz should sensitize us, as Kristof does, to ongoing savagery--think Boko Haram.
Here's the FB link: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153051883204805
3
The horrors of today, the senseless savagery of ISIS and other militant Islam factions goes un-noticed and unspoken by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and others. These countries are awash in money, busy air-conditioning entire cities, building world class shopping malls while the rest of their neighbors live in poverty, ignorance, and savagery. They are bystanders, silent on terrorism, yet eagerly creating what the west has. Hypocrites. Allowing terrorism to grow world wide while they want and build what the west has ISIS should go to these countries. Or would that be biting the hand that funds them?
6
Let me add that I agree with Chinua Achebe position as an outsider looking in. I have no desire to make accusations that have been discussed with macroeconomists. I feel at peace in our disagreement. Also, I know there's contention among African themselves about their potential in the global economy. I have my reservations with micro financing. Again, I think we've come along way and with reform can make the world a better place.
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-interdependence-of-truth-and-power
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-interdependence-of-truth-and-power
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-interdependence-of-truth-and-power
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-interdependence-of-truth-and-power
It's not only that many genocides are being ignored today, it's also about the wrong choices that large numbers of people are making regarding the issues most deserving of attention. To many people 200,000 deaths in Syria and the atrocities being committed by ISIS are of far-less importance than a few apartments in Jerusalem. Time and energy devoted to the wrong issues is one of the main reasons why important issues like genocide are constantly being ignored.
7
President Obama's speech at the ceremony held in remembrance for Nelson Mandela was telling. I am not sure if we Americans watching understood what was implied about our complacency with our own president.
I don't necessarily agree with all of the Obama administrations foreign policies, but I think we have shown our disagreements in dubious ways that thwart our responsibilities as citizens of the United States, placing [all] the blame at Obama's feet.
I don't necessarily agree with all of the Obama administrations foreign policies, but I think we have shown our disagreements in dubious ways that thwart our responsibilities as citizens of the United States, placing [all] the blame at Obama's feet.
1
Actually, if you wish to fight genocide, resist your own temptations to do the same ! That is what we see now, and everywhere including not only occupying other people's land, in fact really carrying out genocide no less than what happened in pre-war Europe !
1
Thank you for memorizing our heros from Poland on such a important issue. Similar thoughts came to me while comparising all those speeches on liberation of Auschwitz with our current world situation. This is sad that people dont learn from the past. I would even say Holocaust seems to be present in so many places in XXI century including different religions and countries:(
4
When young, we tend to be concerned only with ourselves, and then later our family, and then still later our immediate social group. Eventually, to some of it us occurs that we are part of something larger, and that we have received more than we have given. It is at that point that I find that Thoreau's famous comment truly speaks to us, I think:
Aim above morality. Be not simply good, be good for something.
We can choose a single issue, and commit to it. That alone would make a large difference, if more people would do it.
Thank you for your continually informative, relevant, inspiring, and motivating columns. I value every single one of them!
Aim above morality. Be not simply good, be good for something.
We can choose a single issue, and commit to it. That alone would make a large difference, if more people would do it.
Thank you for your continually informative, relevant, inspiring, and motivating columns. I value every single one of them!
1
America and the rest of the world have not learned a thing from the Holocaust. More than 250,000 people have died in Syria at the hands of a ruthless dictator who uses torture and chemical weapons to maim and kill innocents while our President hesitated to get involved. America stood idly by while 800,000 people were slaughtered in Rwanda, and it was only after the determination of former Secretary of State Madeline Albright that Bill Clinton was forced to stop the genocide directed at Kosovo by the Serbs.
The world today makes excuses for and tries to justify and explain the actions of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad instead of calling people who send suicide bombers onto busses, into restaurants, shopping malls, schools, and hospitals evil and terrorists that need to be defeated we instead say that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
We made excuses for Putin's invasion of Crimea and did nothing after his proxy army shot down a civilian airliner and killed everyone onboard. We remained silent when Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds and murdered more than 10,000 of them. We remained silent when Assad of Syria's father send his army into Hama in 1982 and killed 20,000 of his own people. The world has remained silent about the genocide in the Sudan.
All around the world countries and the terrorist groups they sponsor are engaging in the murder of innocents. After the Holocaust we said "Never Again!" but today we don't even bother to raise our voices.
The world today makes excuses for and tries to justify and explain the actions of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad instead of calling people who send suicide bombers onto busses, into restaurants, shopping malls, schools, and hospitals evil and terrorists that need to be defeated we instead say that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
We made excuses for Putin's invasion of Crimea and did nothing after his proxy army shot down a civilian airliner and killed everyone onboard. We remained silent when Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds and murdered more than 10,000 of them. We remained silent when Assad of Syria's father send his army into Hama in 1982 and killed 20,000 of his own people. The world has remained silent about the genocide in the Sudan.
All around the world countries and the terrorist groups they sponsor are engaging in the murder of innocents. After the Holocaust we said "Never Again!" but today we don't even bother to raise our voices.
5
I appreciate Mr. Kristoff's columns on this subject. Of course, what reasonable person wouldn't want to do something to help persecuted peoples. Unfortunately, many practical issues exist that make it very hard even for the most well-intentioned nations. First and foremost, international law prohibits one nation to attack another unless it's for self defense, unless authorized by the UN security council. And since the big five nations all have veto power in that body, finding common ground is very difficult, because each nation is looking out for own interests first. The most prominent example today is Russia and it's protection of its Syrian client. The UN charter needs to be changed so that no one nation can veto action when it comes to issues of mass atrocities or genocide. It seems that the whole concept of international law is still at a very formative stage and much has to be done to make the UN a more effective body. The only problem is that the status quo works out for the big five nations, and it's highly doubtful that any of those countries will willingly give up their power. So in essence, it's sort of like the wild west out there. It took a devastating World War to set up the UN, as ineffective as it is, in the first place. What will it take to make it a stronger tool for world order? Another war. It seems, unfortunately, that most minorities are on their own on this chaotic world of ours. Defend yourselves, my friends.
3
we are once again reminded that the atrocities of the 20th Century have been carried forward into the 21st Century...current efforts to define "conflicts" in black and white arguments to force quick and simple solutions utterly fail --- as human behaviors almost always favor many and complex interactions...
greed, militarization, misinterpretations, tribalization, along with too rapid acceleration of misunderstandings, are constant barriers to applying resolutions that are necessary for the general benefit of all...
to the barricades, then?
or, rather: to conversation, open-mindedness, trust and verification in the widest possible context?
standing idle and doing nothing whatsoever should surely be completely unacceptable.
greed, militarization, misinterpretations, tribalization, along with too rapid acceleration of misunderstandings, are constant barriers to applying resolutions that are necessary for the general benefit of all...
to the barricades, then?
or, rather: to conversation, open-mindedness, trust and verification in the widest possible context?
standing idle and doing nothing whatsoever should surely be completely unacceptable.
Perhaps we are lacking in good communication skills here at home, and this might be one of many causes for so much hurt, confusion and misunderstanding when we try to understand each other better and keep our minds more adaptable and far reaching when it comes to our behavior towards others.
I am all for doing more. We should have been more active and competent in ousting Saddem Hussein who killed Kurds without pause and Bashir Assad and who slaughtered many of his own people. Mr. Kristof writes a very moving column but the heroes he mentions did not end the death camps or the genocides big armies did.
The Left suffers a twofold moral dilemma. When its heart is moved it was to end suffering. It wants, however, to do it on the cheap, air power, but not nasty drones. Air power has alone has never brought victory. It will not end acts of genocide.
The Left suffers a twofold moral dilemma. When its heart is moved it was to end suffering. It wants, however, to do it on the cheap, air power, but not nasty drones. Air power has alone has never brought victory. It will not end acts of genocide.
1
A friend of many years, and now elderly, reports from Iraq that things have never been worse since the ouster of Saddam Hussein.
1
It's outrageous to keep playing that Armenian genocide tune. How can the world find peace if ancient grudges are maintained long after the perpetrators have died? There is not one person alive today who participated in the Armenian genocide. There is not one Turk who should feel guilty about anything. My grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins were murdered by the Germans. Am I supposed to be mad indefinitely at people who weren't even alive at the time? Get a life.
2
I agree with you Nick but how many humanitarian crises are wars waiting to happen? Syria, iraq again, sudan, nigeria, and the list goes on. At what point is this too much of a drain on our own economy? Of what value was the war in iraq? Point out the administrations shortcoming all you want but what happened there was the best GWB's administration was cappable of and it was pathetic. I have no problem giving money in aid but look at who we are giving money too and their sharia laws which are commonly in gross violation of the basic human rights our country has taken so long itself to grant most all of our citizens. I cant help but imagine a global community based on freedom of all people but with the growing effect that misguided religion is having on reasonable law and historical knowledge about fairness, unfortunately i dont think that global community is possible right now. Its an unwinable situation. Its clear that the usa can't be the police of the world anymore. Let those governments decide their own future but let them know if they decide on a violent and oppressive one then they will have to go at it without free trade and aid from us. As well i would hope the rest of the developed world would sign on to this sentimen. Any country with laws in gross violation of basic human rights and due process should be immediately cut from receiving aid.
1
" but that, sadly, it’s just too easy to acquiesce."
Of course it is. Anyone who wants to take action soon learns our allies are not perfect and that we are seeking war forever or some oil or other economic advantage to fill our unstated demands. The victims are lost in the fuss.
Code Pink will come out to attack us or Move On will do its deeds.
Why not be quiet and easy?
Of course it is. Anyone who wants to take action soon learns our allies are not perfect and that we are seeking war forever or some oil or other economic advantage to fill our unstated demands. The victims are lost in the fuss.
Code Pink will come out to attack us or Move On will do its deeds.
Why not be quiet and easy?
1
The value in remembering and acknowledging the atrocities of genocide has much to do with learning from, being alert to, and avoiding, the cultural conditions, mindset, and behaviors leading up those atrocities. As such, we in the United States should be paying more attention to the slippery slope of our justifications for torture, the surveillance state, economic oppression, demonizing "others", and secret (or not so) corporate/ political affiliations that set law and policy . What good does it do any of us to remember history if we don't heed its messages and choose to act in accordance with the fullest measure of our humanity?
6
Thank you Mr. Kristof for your uplifting and morally challenging op-eds. Your piece today is a reflection of excellent journalism that enlightens people about historical atrocities as well as the courageous individuals who battled against them like, Witold Pilecki. Perhaps we as a war weary, for the most part, nation need more Holocaust type museums in every community and less glorification of violence in our culture. This might counterbalance the extreme blood lust that a popular majority seems to thrive in by watching violent Super Bowl football games and awarding Academy Awards to movies that glorify war without examining the causes.
The American neglect of African atrocities including Darfur, Rwanda and Nigeria, seems to be the flip side of our government's over involvement in the Middle East. I don't believe that American military involvement has proved successful in the post WWII era except for the Bosnian and Korean wars. It seems that giving financial assistance to countries like Nigeria is futile since the government is so corrupt and may be at the root of the Boko Haram issue and battle for power. It is difficult to diagnose the solution for global conflict although your column goes a great distance in the public's understanding of world issues which effect our collective humanity. Thank you!
The American neglect of African atrocities including Darfur, Rwanda and Nigeria, seems to be the flip side of our government's over involvement in the Middle East. I don't believe that American military involvement has proved successful in the post WWII era except for the Bosnian and Korean wars. It seems that giving financial assistance to countries like Nigeria is futile since the government is so corrupt and may be at the root of the Boko Haram issue and battle for power. It is difficult to diagnose the solution for global conflict although your column goes a great distance in the public's understanding of world issues which effect our collective humanity. Thank you!
6
Don't forget to mention our own failed attempt at ethnic cleansing, Mr. Kristof: the illegal internment of thousands of Japanese-Americans.
2
More popular novels are now beginning to surface written by young Japanese authors that are beginning to give some Americans of what happened during those dark years. When a Japanese friend, who has lived in America for decades and went on to marry an American aviator visit each other, it is a tacit understanding that we never mention Hiroshima for instance, but rather share our life stories, and how she fled her authoritarian father who wanted her to marry a Japanese to stay in her country, along with her other three sisters, while she went on to become a successful business woman here on her own merits. All rewarding, requiring tremendous will-power, and one learns from such friends as the seasons go by.
As an American living in Austria we have Auschwitz every single day on public radio and tv--especially this last month leading to this important anniversary. Almost hourly! But as Branko Lustig (Producer of Schindler's List and also survivor of Auschwitz) has noted in many interviews he has given is that young Germans and Austrians are sorely in need of constant education on the subject of the Holocaust today. 70 years is a blink- of- an- eye in history and already hatred of Jews and Muslims is present once more.
You list many on the great list of man's inhumanity and genocide taking place and it is as tragic and unfathomable as the acts of evil in Auschwitz. To this list I'd like to add the millions upon millions who die a savage death through world hunger where every 6 seconds a human being dies from starvation! That is a Holocaust which has gone on for decades and we are mostly silent about.
Thank you for mentioning the humanity of Jan Karski in your article. Both he and Witold Pilecki are heroes to me. Worthy of being called "Mensch" and so much more! Wish we had many more human beings of such high moral courage. How much the world needs men of such character and selflessness.
You list many on the great list of man's inhumanity and genocide taking place and it is as tragic and unfathomable as the acts of evil in Auschwitz. To this list I'd like to add the millions upon millions who die a savage death through world hunger where every 6 seconds a human being dies from starvation! That is a Holocaust which has gone on for decades and we are mostly silent about.
Thank you for mentioning the humanity of Jan Karski in your article. Both he and Witold Pilecki are heroes to me. Worthy of being called "Mensch" and so much more! Wish we had many more human beings of such high moral courage. How much the world needs men of such character and selflessness.
6
When we draw up the lists of genocide might we add Native Americans. And, if the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide, are we responsible for those small pox infected blankets?
Just asking
Just asking
3
As long as Man views individuals and groups as "others", genocides will happen.
The story of the Vanderbilt University students' rape trial points that out--
how many people both before and after the rape occurred SAW that young woman in an unconscious state, vulnerable to whatever attentions might be visited on her, and did nothing???
We have been taught consciously, unconsciously to be self-protective in situations like that as well as larger ones where groups of people are threatened overtly and subtly by powers that seem too large to confront...
The Kochs' statement about the obscene amount of money they play to spend to influence the Presidential election (and others) is just as much a threat to American society and democratic values as ISIS...yet which one is our government fighting???
The story of the Vanderbilt University students' rape trial points that out--
how many people both before and after the rape occurred SAW that young woman in an unconscious state, vulnerable to whatever attentions might be visited on her, and did nothing???
We have been taught consciously, unconsciously to be self-protective in situations like that as well as larger ones where groups of people are threatened overtly and subtly by powers that seem too large to confront...
The Kochs' statement about the obscene amount of money they play to spend to influence the Presidential election (and others) is just as much a threat to American society and democratic values as ISIS...yet which one is our government fighting???
5
It is plausible that Mr. Kristof is writing a book that will cover the majority of issues raised by the commentators, and it may be one way that we can help him with a variety of input that fits under the name of humanity.
What many seem to be dancing around is the fact that the thing that is most likely to have the largest immediate impact in many, if not most, areas would be military intervention, which almost certainly means U.S. military intervention. We are uncomfortable (at least) with the idea of sending "other people's sons and daughters" to risk their lives to do something about it.
I'm a combat veteran - a draftee in an unpopular war - and yet I'm willing to suggest that we do exactly that. Send only those in our armed forces who are willing to volunteer specifically for the task. I can promise you that many would volunteer - not because they enjoy war but because of a sense of honor and duty (cue Jack Nicholson - there's some validity to that speech). And when some volunteered, many more would follow out of a sense of loyalty to their fellow soldiers.
Still uncomfortable with that idea? We were willing to send thousands of troops to Iraq and Afghanistan (a few thousand of whom lost their lives) to essentially avenge the deaths of 3,000 Americans. And say what you will - whatever support there was for that effort was largely based on exactly that - vengeance. Should we not be willing to commit our soldiers in an effort to actually SAVE innocent lives?
But of course we won't. Because American lives are the most important, followed closely by the lives of Europeans and then... well, I don't know who's next, but I know that Arabic and African peoples are well down the list.
I'm a combat veteran - a draftee in an unpopular war - and yet I'm willing to suggest that we do exactly that. Send only those in our armed forces who are willing to volunteer specifically for the task. I can promise you that many would volunteer - not because they enjoy war but because of a sense of honor and duty (cue Jack Nicholson - there's some validity to that speech). And when some volunteered, many more would follow out of a sense of loyalty to their fellow soldiers.
Still uncomfortable with that idea? We were willing to send thousands of troops to Iraq and Afghanistan (a few thousand of whom lost their lives) to essentially avenge the deaths of 3,000 Americans. And say what you will - whatever support there was for that effort was largely based on exactly that - vengeance. Should we not be willing to commit our soldiers in an effort to actually SAVE innocent lives?
But of course we won't. Because American lives are the most important, followed closely by the lives of Europeans and then... well, I don't know who's next, but I know that Arabic and African peoples are well down the list.
10
It was of interest to read what you had to relay, and reminded me on another note, of a dinner where a friend who works in the international community with a young family of her own, told me in 2003 that she was due to leave HQ in New York and be sent on assignment overseas - why? I frowned but this falls within the rules and regulations of the organization. Well, just don't let them send you to Afghanistan, I added rather lightly, thinking this could never happen. And off she went to Kabul until 2005, and received a very warm welcome from her colleagues on her return.
We met and worked together at this organization in 1975, and recently when I asked her what was her most rewarding working experience, her eyes lit up and she replied 'Afghanistan'.
Then another friend in her 50s living here for years with her now grown family announced awhile ago that she had submitted her candidacy for a post in the Sudan, causing another frown on my part. 'I am African' she replied, and we had a civil exchange on this latest news, while we discussed the possibility of Haiti instead. She is a teacher of life and the epitome of 'Mother Earth' and when babies of all cultures see her, they wish to be raised in her strong arms. It is a wonderful sight to behold.
We met and worked together at this organization in 1975, and recently when I asked her what was her most rewarding working experience, her eyes lit up and she replied 'Afghanistan'.
Then another friend in her 50s living here for years with her now grown family announced awhile ago that she had submitted her candidacy for a post in the Sudan, causing another frown on my part. 'I am African' she replied, and we had a civil exchange on this latest news, while we discussed the possibility of Haiti instead. She is a teacher of life and the epitome of 'Mother Earth' and when babies of all cultures see her, they wish to be raised in her strong arms. It is a wonderful sight to behold.
1
Rich,
Thank you. Very well said. I believe bring back the draft would bring some sanity
back to American foreign policy. I heard recently that fewer than 3% of American families have direct connection to military service now. A draft that offered alternative services for a couple of years - military, education, Peace Corp, and so forth - would be a real positive for many people now.
Thank you. Very well said. I believe bring back the draft would bring some sanity
back to American foreign policy. I heard recently that fewer than 3% of American families have direct connection to military service now. A draft that offered alternative services for a couple of years - military, education, Peace Corp, and so forth - would be a real positive for many people now.
3
I agree with Kristof in what he writes, but would add the surest way in the long term to fight genocide is through the spread internationally, perhaps with the UN as the vehicle, of values based education that stresses, in a phrase coined by Tsunesaburo Makiguchi, a visionary Japanese educator of the first half of the twentieth century, humanitarian competition. This idea supposes instead of educating our children with the goal of personal advancement and enrichment as paramount we focus on cultivating a deeply felt understanding that the most certain route to individual happiness is by serving and helping others. Makiguchi imagined a system of education where the most prized competition was not primarily for grades, awards and a higher rung on society's ladder of socio-economic outcomes, but rather for finding new, creative and effective ways to eliminate human need and suffering as it appeared in the world. In short, he wanted to inculcate in young persons a deepening heartfelt conviction in the value and power of imaginative empathy, which grew in its reach exponentially as the practitioner's field of experience using it expanded. Makiguchi's theories have been tested for nearly fifty years, spreading to encompass a global network of schools including Soka University of America , and the results so far are very encouraging. Certainly we will face a flood of human suffering in the future, but the best way to mitigate it is with a foundation of greatly enhanced humanism.
16
The world has always been a divide between the haves and have nots, and even more so today when human value is defined as a unit of production. Many of the victims of modern genocide are seen not as human beings, but as lacking economic value, where through poverty, repression or other injustice, they are seen as not being able to take care of themselves and need outside help - i.e. "our" money for military or economic aid. Unless we can shake off the economic Darwinism so prevalent today -- when here at home we have our leaders calling those made unemployed by the greatest recession in our lifetime "lazy" and much of our middle class reduced to food stamps to survive, and when leaders in Europe can lay waste to a whole generation of young adults just coming of age to appease bankers and bond markets -- then we will never have the empathy (about which you, Mr, Kristof, have so eloquently written) to stand up for those suffering such atrocities as genocide, mass starvation or other calamities elsewhere in the world. Just witness the difference between our response to the victims of which you right and, say, the disaster that befell Japan just a few years ago. For those of us who do care, all we can hope is that through the courage of writings such as yours we will someday have a world where economic distinctions no longer matter.
1
Early in March 2011, a friend representing a large children's organization in Asia wrote 'another tsunami expected - evacuation plans for refugees taking place', and I went to the front page of the Times and saw the terrible earthquake that had hit Japan. 'Nuclear reactors...their nuclear reactors', my friend responded, as her friends and colleagues around the world tried to get news of their staff members in Tokyo, and more.
A year later a book came out on the bombing of Japan and a thread began between commentators as to whether this was warranted or not. Some of the comments were frightening such as 'this photo of the bomb explosion looks like a photo taken from God', and not a single one remembered during this long exchange, that Japan had nearly been wiped off the map a year before. Short memories, we have.
A year later a book came out on the bombing of Japan and a thread began between commentators as to whether this was warranted or not. Some of the comments were frightening such as 'this photo of the bomb explosion looks like a photo taken from God', and not a single one remembered during this long exchange, that Japan had nearly been wiped off the map a year before. Short memories, we have.
Of course we should denounce genocide, but we can't cure all of humanity of its ignorance and cruelty. At best we can create regions of cooperative civility where individual freedom and shared prosperity can exist, and then we must do what is necessary defend them. Our dismal experience in the Middle East proves that our own idealism is no match for the stubborn backwardness and entrenched hatred of other cultures. Ultimately they will have to save themselves.
1
About five years ago I met the author of a book describing the acts of individual Italians in saving Jews from deportation when Germany invaded Italy in 1943. Through our friendship I've had the chance to meet survivors and rescuers, and to see them honored by various organizations. My takeaway is that individuals make the difference: rejecting the philosophies and identity politics that lead to environments conducive to genocide is the best way to prevent them from happening.
8
the wounds of genocide never go away, but we can prevent future wounds. many victims remain paralyzed for decades. I know it all too well. I admire your courage and the clarity of this column.
3
I read this after reading the Times editorial suggesting the POTUS needs to get Congressional authority to engage in war. I agree that giving the POTUS broad authority would be a scary proposition that could lead us into a perpetual state of war… and, sadly, the only way a POTUS can get Congressional support for intervention is if those funding Congressional elections have an economic stake in the intervention.
1
And don't forget the elephant in the room - namely North Korea!
2
And yet, after the communists kill this hero, Kristof still systematically excludes communist genocides from his history and his outrage.
Horrifying how mundane and unremarkable it is to do this, as communists murdered more people in the century of holocausts than anyone else.
Horrifying how mundane and unremarkable it is to do this, as communists murdered more people in the century of holocausts than anyone else.
11
Thank you Tina, you are the Hero to me :)
2
The 5 members of the UN Security Council are the biggest arms manufacturers and exporters in the world. The US leading that pack. The US as not signed on to the small arms treaty, nor did it support the prohibition of land mines. It's true that some genocides are carried out with machetes, the advanced, industrialized countries of the West could make a serious dent in genocide around the world by starving the weapons market.
13
"Granted, humanitarian crises rarely offer good policy choices..."
It's not just about not having good policy choices, it's about not having any workable policy choices. This is the crux of the problem.
Even if the President had the will and the Congress and the American people backed him up, we don't have enough volunteer troops to police and enforce decency in all these places. Further, who else will help? The Chinese? The Indians? The Japanese? French? Germans?
It is such a difficult problem, that I notice you only make a call for action in your column. You're apparently not able not propose a solution.
And that's too bad, I respect your opinion as much as any New York Time columnist. Personally, my natural foreign policy tendencies is to stay out and to take care of the homeland. But I realize that policy breaks down in the face of crimes against private citizens. I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and I've never come up with what I see as a workable policy.
It's not just about not having good policy choices, it's about not having any workable policy choices. This is the crux of the problem.
Even if the President had the will and the Congress and the American people backed him up, we don't have enough volunteer troops to police and enforce decency in all these places. Further, who else will help? The Chinese? The Indians? The Japanese? French? Germans?
It is such a difficult problem, that I notice you only make a call for action in your column. You're apparently not able not propose a solution.
And that's too bad, I respect your opinion as much as any New York Time columnist. Personally, my natural foreign policy tendencies is to stay out and to take care of the homeland. But I realize that policy breaks down in the face of crimes against private citizens. I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and I've never come up with what I see as a workable policy.
When people say "someone should do something" or as Nicholas Kristof wrote, "But, to me, the lesson of history is that the best way to honor past victims of atrocities is to stand up to slaughter today." What they are really saying is that we should send other people's sons and daughters, husbands and wives, moms and dads to some dark corner of the world to fix a problem or right a wrong. There are so many of those places--Ukraine, Iraq, Northern Nigeria, Sudan, North Korea, etc. Do we send our people to all of them? Is there a way to prioritize? How long do we stay? What form is our aid? And how do we avoid our assistance being rejected and our people sent to help being set up as in Somalia? And are those urging "that something should be done" volunteers?
24
What an important article. Today's society (of which i am, of course, part of) has become complacent, even numbed, by the daily diet of atrocities we humans perpetrate against each other. We have become spectators, voyeurs, unable (paralyzed?) or unwilling to raise our voice, let alone a finger, to try to stop this cruelty. We kill with 'gusto', and usually because we want what our neighbors have, and use religious 'verses' to justify the unjustifiable. The last thing in my mind is to try to moralize or to judge others, as we all must by force share in the blame. Just suffice it to say that the carnage we are witnessing today may be the result of yesterday's greed, to assert control of the flow of oil (and other 'goodies') from various countries, many times overlooking the needs of their people, while allowing kleptocrats in power to collaborate in our designs. In other words, much of what is occurring may have a strong dose of our own medicine. What a bitter pill to swallow!
15
One of the Auschwitz Jewish survivors who talked at the Auschwitz commemoration last week said one should add an Eleventh Commandment: Don't just be a spectator. Details and context in the link below.
Even that is too optimistic. Most people avert their eyes.
The USA did not do anything much against Hitler until well after Hitler had declared war to the USA, December 11, 1941. These are years that ought to live in infamy.
The Japanese and the Germans acted abominably in World War Two. Yet the latter were clearly empowered by American plutocracy, with the conniving complicity of the double dealing government of the USA. Unsavory history is not the exclusive province of the time honored bad guys.
Without Henry Ford, the Nazis would have probably never come to power. Just one example. I could drop another 50 American names, including JP Morgan, and Prescott Bush.
https://patriceayme.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/judaisms-promised-land/
Even that is too optimistic. Most people avert their eyes.
The USA did not do anything much against Hitler until well after Hitler had declared war to the USA, December 11, 1941. These are years that ought to live in infamy.
The Japanese and the Germans acted abominably in World War Two. Yet the latter were clearly empowered by American plutocracy, with the conniving complicity of the double dealing government of the USA. Unsavory history is not the exclusive province of the time honored bad guys.
Without Henry Ford, the Nazis would have probably never come to power. Just one example. I could drop another 50 American names, including JP Morgan, and Prescott Bush.
https://patriceayme.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/judaisms-promised-land/
10
In addition to Witold Pilecki, mention should also be made of Szmul Zygielbojm, the "whistleblower of the Holocaust".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/11381920/The-Ber...
Much has been written over the fact that the US and allies did basically nothing to stop the functioning of the death camps and concentration camps. One of the fears of the Allies was that Hitler would dump millions of Jewish refugees on them and the Allies certainly did not want to be bothered with more Jews than they had to (see the article in the Telegraph above).
It would seem that there is also a lesson to learn today from that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/11381920/The-Ber...
Much has been written over the fact that the US and allies did basically nothing to stop the functioning of the death camps and concentration camps. One of the fears of the Allies was that Hitler would dump millions of Jewish refugees on them and the Allies certainly did not want to be bothered with more Jews than they had to (see the article in the Telegraph above).
It would seem that there is also a lesson to learn today from that.
12
And here is an interesting application, perhaps, of Mr. Kristof's final suggestion:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/30/germany-is-...
The German city of of Augsburg is turning a branch of Dachau into a refugee center.
Needless to say, there has been both praise as well as criticism.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/30/germany-is-...
The German city of of Augsburg is turning a branch of Dachau into a refugee center.
Needless to say, there has been both praise as well as criticism.
3
There are many people of Armenian descent who still wonder why we did not intervene to stop the genocide.
4
As if America's hands are clean.
6
Too bad we need heroes. Too bad we have villains. Too bad humanity, too bad.
2
Mr. Kristof, you've said it all, and more for this reader of 'Heroes and Bystanders'. Is there anything that I can give you in return? A young Russian who loves America contributed to a documentary called Watchers of the Sky, and it begins with a man who coined the word 'Genocide'. Raphael Lemkin is his name - another hero. Thinking quietly this evening of your own family members, while feeling fortunate to have you keep us in the loop. Please continue if you will, and perhaps we will hear you.
2
It is not enough for Mr. Kristof to identify a problem. It is easy to criticize others for not caring, or for not doing enough. Mr. Kristof should offer suggestions about what our government might do - invade Sudan? arm the rebels? encourage Sudan's neighbors to invade? Sitting at a desk and typing, "tsk tsk" is easy. Actually doing something is difficult. Mr. Kristof does not even bother to suggest what should be done.
5
You raise a troubling issue. We are sickened by Auschwitz, and ask ourselves why no attempt was made then to slow the slaughter, and yet we ourselves do relatively little about mass slaughter in the modern world.
The difficulty I think is that the problem is just overwhelming. How many of us are willing to risk the lives of young Americans to halt the killing in Syria or Sudan? And what would the outcome be if we did intervene? After all, we overthrew the butcher who ran Iraq (for the wrong reasons), only to cause more death and suffering than Saddam had. In addition, dictatorships like Russia and Iran that see human rights as inimical block humanitarian measures, and we ourselves look the other way when dictators are in our camp, or when the alternative is worse.
I fear that the bottom line is that while we can and should do more, most of the responsibility for halting atrocities belongs to the nations and peoples in which they occur. Were we at the stage where we had an effective world government, that might not be the case, but most of the world remains too backwards to make true world government a possibility, and even in advanced regions like Europe, it is difficult to convince national groups to cede power to those with different cultural backgrounds.
The difficulty I think is that the problem is just overwhelming. How many of us are willing to risk the lives of young Americans to halt the killing in Syria or Sudan? And what would the outcome be if we did intervene? After all, we overthrew the butcher who ran Iraq (for the wrong reasons), only to cause more death and suffering than Saddam had. In addition, dictatorships like Russia and Iran that see human rights as inimical block humanitarian measures, and we ourselves look the other way when dictators are in our camp, or when the alternative is worse.
I fear that the bottom line is that while we can and should do more, most of the responsibility for halting atrocities belongs to the nations and peoples in which they occur. Were we at the stage where we had an effective world government, that might not be the case, but most of the world remains too backwards to make true world government a possibility, and even in advanced regions like Europe, it is difficult to convince national groups to cede power to those with different cultural backgrounds.
6
I believe that most Times readers are moved by these columns written by Mr. Kristoff, as I am. It helps us locate the moral compass we all are given as humans who find we must all of us live together on a rather small planet. This internal guidance system seems badly in need of renewal in today's US of A, I am sorry to say. Unfortunately, I see a need for a focus on less sensational, but more threatening moral concern - a domestic one.
Rather than compassion here in the US, too often we see passion, playing out as violently held beliefs and postures. The perverse influence of the Right Wing news sources, the O'Reillys, the Limbaughs are ascendant, and they cannot simply be ignored by compassionate Americans. The levels of aggression in the US are astonishing. This was brought home most clearly by a responder to the recent Kristoff column on the death of his childhood friend. The man recounted the hostile attitudes he encountered in carrying out the 2010 census, and contrasted these with the more tranquil responses he found during his work on the 2000 census. This more than any other thing I have read made me realize the danger we all now face. It reinforced perceptions I already had.
The contemporary American love of violent behavior must be countered, non-violently, patiently and continuously if we are to make our way through this present period of National danger.
Rather than compassion here in the US, too often we see passion, playing out as violently held beliefs and postures. The perverse influence of the Right Wing news sources, the O'Reillys, the Limbaughs are ascendant, and they cannot simply be ignored by compassionate Americans. The levels of aggression in the US are astonishing. This was brought home most clearly by a responder to the recent Kristoff column on the death of his childhood friend. The man recounted the hostile attitudes he encountered in carrying out the 2010 census, and contrasted these with the more tranquil responses he found during his work on the 2000 census. This more than any other thing I have read made me realize the danger we all now face. It reinforced perceptions I already had.
The contemporary American love of violent behavior must be countered, non-violently, patiently and continuously if we are to make our way through this present period of National danger.
32
I instantly thought of the difference between this man's heroism and that of Kyle fame in "American Sniper" The quiet grunt work of hidden heros far exceeds the star power of elite soldiers who are backed, usually but not always, by the incredible firepower of the American military. This may seem off point from the article, but not from remembering what it takes to take say seriously, "Never again." In a saner world the hidden grunts, like the secretaries from whom business could not function, are given their due, and to the elite we say but, "Thank you for your service." Follow again the business example. Who is greater? The, usually white guy from good families who benefits from an educational and culture system that is heavily balanced in their favor, or the 'little people,' who really make the world run?
2
There are no doubt many atrocities committed everyday around the world. The question remains, even if we want to, can the United States or anyone else effect any changes, either diplomatically or militarily?
When a country is plagued by competing power that rivals each other's corruption and cruelty towards their own people, what can any outsiders do? Who will take over as a stable democratic government if the current governments are booted out, in Syria, Sudan....? We should know. After all that we had done in Iraq in the span of ten years, in the first sign of a real threat, what did the government and military we coached do? They folded, and surrendered our American made weapons.
Half a century ago many third world countries were able to gain independence from the shackles and corruption of colonial occupiers, which were us the West. Some democratized and stabilized. But many found government corruption unchanged but only replaced by their own people.
We should know this too given the state of our politic. Every elections we voted with hope this time will be different. But it doesn't, not until the system change. Not until the darkness in our own hearts change.
Not that Obama didn't want to or did not do anything, but even as POTUS, his effort will always be dwarfed by the vastness of our own corrupt system and the adeptness of evils in human hearts.
We of course cannot give up. But we need to be realistic and not place blame wrongly.
When a country is plagued by competing power that rivals each other's corruption and cruelty towards their own people, what can any outsiders do? Who will take over as a stable democratic government if the current governments are booted out, in Syria, Sudan....? We should know. After all that we had done in Iraq in the span of ten years, in the first sign of a real threat, what did the government and military we coached do? They folded, and surrendered our American made weapons.
Half a century ago many third world countries were able to gain independence from the shackles and corruption of colonial occupiers, which were us the West. Some democratized and stabilized. But many found government corruption unchanged but only replaced by their own people.
We should know this too given the state of our politic. Every elections we voted with hope this time will be different. But it doesn't, not until the system change. Not until the darkness in our own hearts change.
Not that Obama didn't want to or did not do anything, but even as POTUS, his effort will always be dwarfed by the vastness of our own corrupt system and the adeptness of evils in human hearts.
We of course cannot give up. But we need to be realistic and not place blame wrongly.
9
Kristof writes: "A decade ago, one of the most outspoken politicians on Darfur — harshly scolding President George W. Bush for not doing more — was an Illinois senator, Barack Obama."
Obama's first speech abroad as president was in early 2009 delivered in Cairo and addressed the Muslim world. He spoke for 55 minutes praising Islam's civilization and regretting America's crimes. But not five minutes, not five seconds were spent on Darfur, in the Sudan, across the border from Egypt where Arab atrocities rontinued against African farmers.
His audience, sitting on gilded chairs, included all the members of the Arab League. Obama did not take that opportunity to demand, to implore them to pressure their member, Sudan, to end that genocide and restore those refugees to their lands.
Kristoff has forgotten that, if he ever noticed. That phony.
Moreover, while Witold Pilecki was undoubtedly a brave and decent man, and a hero, much of that story in the Atlantic is dubious. I don't buy anyone arranging to have himself sent to a death camp and there operating a spy ring consisting of hundreds of prisoners, with a postal service to the outside world, and the ability to leave when he had a mind to. This is an attempt to alter the very perception of Auschwitz.
There were many heroic Poles who risked their lives to save Jews, but far more delighted in their tragedy. Even the Polish Home army in London was deeply anti-Semitic. There is an ongoing effort to whitewash that history.
Obama's first speech abroad as president was in early 2009 delivered in Cairo and addressed the Muslim world. He spoke for 55 minutes praising Islam's civilization and regretting America's crimes. But not five minutes, not five seconds were spent on Darfur, in the Sudan, across the border from Egypt where Arab atrocities rontinued against African farmers.
His audience, sitting on gilded chairs, included all the members of the Arab League. Obama did not take that opportunity to demand, to implore them to pressure their member, Sudan, to end that genocide and restore those refugees to their lands.
Kristoff has forgotten that, if he ever noticed. That phony.
Moreover, while Witold Pilecki was undoubtedly a brave and decent man, and a hero, much of that story in the Atlantic is dubious. I don't buy anyone arranging to have himself sent to a death camp and there operating a spy ring consisting of hundreds of prisoners, with a postal service to the outside world, and the ability to leave when he had a mind to. This is an attempt to alter the very perception of Auschwitz.
There were many heroic Poles who risked their lives to save Jews, but far more delighted in their tragedy. Even the Polish Home army in London was deeply anti-Semitic. There is an ongoing effort to whitewash that history.
15
Then stay at home, sodium chloride, and clean up your own sterile home. For sterile it sounds, and your comment is enough to send a cold chill to my place that has no heat while my hands turn blue, but I plan to do better than survive, and will continue to hear the call for help from my neighbor, from my hard-working friends who will never be able to retire, from strangers sitting out in the cold in a wheel-chair, silent they are.
Remembering all those who have helped and continue to help me on life's journey, some rich in funds, some on a shoe-string, while your contribution here was more powerful in inspiring me to do better than even Mr. Kristof's column, an individual who has placed his life on the line on many occasion, and when he spoke of the recent death of his childhood friend, the poison in some of the comments were lethal, but helped this person to understand better what a friend on mission in Darfur wrote recently, and coasts along on this philosophy 'Whatever makes you happy, my friend, whatever makes you happy..'
Remembering all those who have helped and continue to help me on life's journey, some rich in funds, some on a shoe-string, while your contribution here was more powerful in inspiring me to do better than even Mr. Kristof's column, an individual who has placed his life on the line on many occasion, and when he spoke of the recent death of his childhood friend, the poison in some of the comments were lethal, but helped this person to understand better what a friend on mission in Darfur wrote recently, and coasts along on this philosophy 'Whatever makes you happy, my friend, whatever makes you happy..'
1
I would suggest that you do some more reading about Mr. Pilecki before you demonstrate your skepticism. Mr. Kristof writes nothing, but truth. More knowledge will set you free.
2
Part I
While there were some people in Poland that didn't like the Jews very much (like there were pretty much everywhere in the world) saying that "far more delighted in their tragedy" is a deeply unfounded and unfair accusation. The same goes for the "deeply anti-Semitic" Polish Home Army in London (by which you probably mean the Polish government-in-exile, because the Home Army operated in the occupied Poland, and only owed alliegence to the goverment). While it is impossible to tell exactly how many people in Poland hated the Jews and wished them dead, how many activly worked towards their demise, how many cooperated with the Germans out of fear, how many simply stood by and watched it happen, how many tried to help the Jews out, how many risked their own lives doing so, and how many actually died protecting them, we should invoke the data we do poses. I'm fairly certain you are familiar with the honorific "Righteous Among the Nations", but I'm not sure if you know that the biggest number of people that were awarded with that title were Polish, exactly 6 454 out of 25 271. Among them heroes like Irena Sendler and Jan Karski. Look them up. I would also like to remind you that helping Jews in occupied Poand was punished with death by the Nazis, so everyone that did so risked death. Furthermore, there was an entire organisation devoted only to the protection of the Jews, it was called "Council to aid Jews", known also as "Żegota". To be continued.
While there were some people in Poland that didn't like the Jews very much (like there were pretty much everywhere in the world) saying that "far more delighted in their tragedy" is a deeply unfounded and unfair accusation. The same goes for the "deeply anti-Semitic" Polish Home Army in London (by which you probably mean the Polish government-in-exile, because the Home Army operated in the occupied Poland, and only owed alliegence to the goverment). While it is impossible to tell exactly how many people in Poland hated the Jews and wished them dead, how many activly worked towards their demise, how many cooperated with the Germans out of fear, how many simply stood by and watched it happen, how many tried to help the Jews out, how many risked their own lives doing so, and how many actually died protecting them, we should invoke the data we do poses. I'm fairly certain you are familiar with the honorific "Righteous Among the Nations", but I'm not sure if you know that the biggest number of people that were awarded with that title were Polish, exactly 6 454 out of 25 271. Among them heroes like Irena Sendler and Jan Karski. Look them up. I would also like to remind you that helping Jews in occupied Poand was punished with death by the Nazis, so everyone that did so risked death. Furthermore, there was an entire organisation devoted only to the protection of the Jews, it was called "Council to aid Jews", known also as "Żegota". To be continued.
4
One is moved by Kristof's eloquent plea, in a way that one also suspects as having succumbed to an emotionally labile state. But we who live in the United States need to tend to our own society first, with its yawning chasm between the 1% and the rest of us suddenly opening up. The United States and other so-called advanced nations will probably turn more and more inward, despite the interventionist pleas, as we begin to implode from the force of atavistic classism and see an ugly backlash.
7
This is a false choice. Nothing we do to better our lot domestically need prevent us from aiding and defending those far worse off and under attack in Darfur and Syria and elsewhere.
2
The USA is sick of foreign entanglements because they are always sold to Congress and the electorate with high-sounding noble principles like "making the world safe for democracy" and end up being a huge boondoggle undertaken at public expense to enrich the private corporations. We have had enough of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and the whole passel of adventures in our own hemisphere. If you feel inclined to fight for principles somewhere, then join Blackwater and get a gig as a merc. But leave me and my draft-age relatives out of it.
1
I share Kristof's plea for intervention in case of mass genocides that, sadly, are far more common today than is acknowledged. I share his feeling of helplessness as an individual who can do little more than send money or lobby my representatives to influence American policy.
Even as my sympathies align with Kristof, I wonder if his assessment that inaction is the worst option is true. What if we can all, instead of calling for intervention, lobby for prevention? Isn't it true that an ounce of prevention is beter than a pound of cure?
Even as my sympathies align with Kristof, I wonder if his assessment that inaction is the worst option is true. What if we can all, instead of calling for intervention, lobby for prevention? Isn't it true that an ounce of prevention is beter than a pound of cure?
11
chickenlover,
If you are able to send money to someone for what you feel is a good cause, one might say this is a step in the right direction. Have you never wondered what you would do when faced with evil such as during WWII and Jewish people were being rounded up like cattle? One doesn't know until one is there but I know that a friend of mine, today a professor in Israel, was hidden by a Catholic family in the country in a barn behind their house. He was not able to stand until he was six, and when the Americans came and he was freed, he went on to devote his working life to an international children's organization. Perhaps we don't know until we are there, but it helps to be inspired by friends who have taken up the banner for the Humanitarian cause, and Mr. Kristof is widely read today by many others, who are racing the clock to save others in trouble in afflicted or war-zone countries. An Irish friend, a fine water engineer, was in the Congo earlier this year and returned home safely. Now recovered from a bout of malaria. he is up and ready to go on his next assignment to Haiti. What can I do? Perhaps ask that friend if I can do something to help in looking after their 'chickens' :) while they are away. One can always try to do better, and if one does this for free, one is doing this for oneself, while continuing to learn with some avidity.
If you are able to send money to someone for what you feel is a good cause, one might say this is a step in the right direction. Have you never wondered what you would do when faced with evil such as during WWII and Jewish people were being rounded up like cattle? One doesn't know until one is there but I know that a friend of mine, today a professor in Israel, was hidden by a Catholic family in the country in a barn behind their house. He was not able to stand until he was six, and when the Americans came and he was freed, he went on to devote his working life to an international children's organization. Perhaps we don't know until we are there, but it helps to be inspired by friends who have taken up the banner for the Humanitarian cause, and Mr. Kristof is widely read today by many others, who are racing the clock to save others in trouble in afflicted or war-zone countries. An Irish friend, a fine water engineer, was in the Congo earlier this year and returned home safely. Now recovered from a bout of malaria. he is up and ready to go on his next assignment to Haiti. What can I do? Perhaps ask that friend if I can do something to help in looking after their 'chickens' :) while they are away. One can always try to do better, and if one does this for free, one is doing this for oneself, while continuing to learn with some avidity.
1
And, we are committing genocide when we allow poverty to continue. Allowing poverty, whatever the explanation, to continue affects the genocide of subgroups in nations as well as other political geographical entities. And, allowing poverty, whatever the explanation, to continue eliminates beneficial genes which would be affecting the positive healthy evolution of the human species. The cost for eliminating poverty would eliminate unnecessary amounts of wealth while preserving some persons experiences of having more luxurious living conditions than others, just not at the expense of others.
We all would lead more constructive lives.
We all would lead more constructive lives.
35
The problem, of course, is that many if not most of the worst offenders already are sanctioned by the West -- additional sanctions that don't actually starve the peoples involved probably won't have immense impact. The only way to affect genocidal reality is to block the securing of objectives that the genocide is meant to support. Most of those objectives have to do with eliminating what elites regard as alien presences among them, competing for land, other material resources and a say in development of a shared culture. And most of them are racial or ethnic by nature.
If sanctions likely won't be effective, then the only remaining way of stopping genocide is by force. Certainly, moral suasion alone is the first and last resort of the monumentally naive.
For most of the past seventy years, it has fallen to the U.S. to apply that force, because Europe has increasingly eviscerated its armed forces in the interests of paying for its social welfare frameworks -- it's simply no longer capable of militarily and independently defending its interests. The last time WE did it effectively, though it took time and actually did pull in some European help, was in the Balkans.
But Mr. Obama clearly does not embrace this view of America's role, whatever his motivations. He is fast becoming today's archetypal "bystander".
I support Nick's passion and outrage. But merely talking about the outrage doesn't get troops flown to Sudan and South Sudan.
If sanctions likely won't be effective, then the only remaining way of stopping genocide is by force. Certainly, moral suasion alone is the first and last resort of the monumentally naive.
For most of the past seventy years, it has fallen to the U.S. to apply that force, because Europe has increasingly eviscerated its armed forces in the interests of paying for its social welfare frameworks -- it's simply no longer capable of militarily and independently defending its interests. The last time WE did it effectively, though it took time and actually did pull in some European help, was in the Balkans.
But Mr. Obama clearly does not embrace this view of America's role, whatever his motivations. He is fast becoming today's archetypal "bystander".
I support Nick's passion and outrage. But merely talking about the outrage doesn't get troops flown to Sudan and South Sudan.
3
Mr. Luettegen,
One of the most powerful images that I retain of the President is the one where he is standing with lowered head and shielding his eyes when told of the massacre of the children of Syria. He spoke to us about the importance of intervening during a summer past, and we all started to grouse and go home.
He placed a call to us when people took refuge on a mountain in the Middle East not so long ago, and it is the picture of an Arab woman holding her dead child in her arms, invoking the President's name for help, that is the most evocative to this American, but our ears for the most part remained leaden, and our eyes were dull and glazed over.
Today he is going along the road of America and taking up the banner for the very poor, while encouraging us to better educate our children. At times Mr. Obama will tell us that he 'hears' us, but do we hear him when there is a call on his part for any good action?
The choice is ours, and when it comes to true empathy and action, it is to President Obama that I turn, and to my friends who late in life have become my true family. 'Is Christianity dead', asked an elderly Iraqi recently when I visited and taking this person by surprise? And, tough that friend has had to be at times in their life to bring their family here over the decades to safety. Perhaps it is a bit of our Humanity that is being slowly taken away from us, was my reply, but we are not going to give up ever. Always.
One of the most powerful images that I retain of the President is the one where he is standing with lowered head and shielding his eyes when told of the massacre of the children of Syria. He spoke to us about the importance of intervening during a summer past, and we all started to grouse and go home.
He placed a call to us when people took refuge on a mountain in the Middle East not so long ago, and it is the picture of an Arab woman holding her dead child in her arms, invoking the President's name for help, that is the most evocative to this American, but our ears for the most part remained leaden, and our eyes were dull and glazed over.
Today he is going along the road of America and taking up the banner for the very poor, while encouraging us to better educate our children. At times Mr. Obama will tell us that he 'hears' us, but do we hear him when there is a call on his part for any good action?
The choice is ours, and when it comes to true empathy and action, it is to President Obama that I turn, and to my friends who late in life have become my true family. 'Is Christianity dead', asked an elderly Iraqi recently when I visited and taking this person by surprise? And, tough that friend has had to be at times in their life to bring their family here over the decades to safety. Perhaps it is a bit of our Humanity that is being slowly taken away from us, was my reply, but we are not going to give up ever. Always.
11
Friends on mission often return from Darfur via Abu Dhabi for a visit home rather than Khartoum. One of them, an Operations Officer on site, rarely if ever buys anything for herself, told me of a plain gold bangle that caught her eye in transit, and we both had a good laugh when she found out that it cost $32,000.
In the meantime, more and more Africans are going to Egypt as slave-laborers for work, and the conditions under which they live often without their family, is another tragedy that is now being addressed, although some of these workers will never be able to return home again. Lost and forgotten in the sand dunes, while the world continues to spin.
In the meantime, more and more Africans are going to Egypt as slave-laborers for work, and the conditions under which they live often without their family, is another tragedy that is now being addressed, although some of these workers will never be able to return home again. Lost and forgotten in the sand dunes, while the world continues to spin.
4
I doubt very much that there would be public support for sending troops to Sudan at this point. The public is tired after years of inconclusive war and is in any case reluctant to commit American troops in large numbers when our national interests aren't at stake and, increasingly, even when they are. Besides, how effective would the be? Look at what happened in Iraq, look at what happened in Afghanistan.
2
Don't forget there are mass atrocities happening currently in the USA as well. In the factory farms of the meat, egg, and dairy industries. Innocent, defenseless individuals are being tortured for their entire lives and then murdered. This is happening to billions of individuals each year. Almost everyone is complicit.
25
Gotta shake my head at this. Do we really value human life so little that in a discussion of Darfur, we start lamenting the fate of chickens and cows? I'm all in favor of ending the abuses of factory farming, but that to me is just grotesque.
8
Animals are not people.
6
Scott L,
Let us be heroes then, and become 'Frugivores', as advocated by a Dr. Morse on a raw diet composed mainly of fruit, nuts, seeds, sweet vegetables and herbs. For holidays, we can treat ourselves to some cake and ale, and share whatever is left over with the birds in the air.
Let us be heroes then, and become 'Frugivores', as advocated by a Dr. Morse on a raw diet composed mainly of fruit, nuts, seeds, sweet vegetables and herbs. For holidays, we can treat ourselves to some cake and ale, and share whatever is left over with the birds in the air.
I agree with you, Mr. Kristof. Unfortunately most of the rest of the world thinks the best way to honor victims is to politicize it with more monuments, more museums, more celebrations, more money, more studies, more books, ...
23
While Turkey and the Turkish government have been slow in adopting the terms that the rest of the world accepts, it is true that the context, while never excusing genocidal massacre,
Politicians learn the lessons of the previous war and usually misapply them to the new situation. And the peace movement has turned into an isolationist movement, claiming to oppose war when civil war has been raging in Syria for years already and requires outside intervention to stop. Too many on the political left seem to oppose only US-created conflict.
Most Americans would not care if Muslims are slaughtered in great numbers or expelled; indeed, hundreds of thousands were displaced from Central African Republic in 2014. And how many millions of refugees are dispaced around the world now? Over 40 million?
In addressing US values as well as interests, our leadership needs to prioritize human rights without sending mixed signals. A freer market in itself will not lead to freer and less oppressed lives. In Myanmar for example we need to be very firm about human rights of minorities and the media even if we fear that Chinese companies will therefore grab all the contracts with Burmese military cronies. Through firmness, moral clarity and far sighted strategy, one should be able to shift the rules of the game. Of course resources are limited and our current administration is quite right to seek multilateral alliances. Putin is hardly a positive influence.
Politicians learn the lessons of the previous war and usually misapply them to the new situation. And the peace movement has turned into an isolationist movement, claiming to oppose war when civil war has been raging in Syria for years already and requires outside intervention to stop. Too many on the political left seem to oppose only US-created conflict.
Most Americans would not care if Muslims are slaughtered in great numbers or expelled; indeed, hundreds of thousands were displaced from Central African Republic in 2014. And how many millions of refugees are dispaced around the world now? Over 40 million?
In addressing US values as well as interests, our leadership needs to prioritize human rights without sending mixed signals. A freer market in itself will not lead to freer and less oppressed lives. In Myanmar for example we need to be very firm about human rights of minorities and the media even if we fear that Chinese companies will therefore grab all the contracts with Burmese military cronies. Through firmness, moral clarity and far sighted strategy, one should be able to shift the rules of the game. Of course resources are limited and our current administration is quite right to seek multilateral alliances. Putin is hardly a positive influence.
13
No mention of Native Americans? Measured by the proportion of the population killed or squeezed into conditions unable to support life, surely it qualifies as genocide. Judged by the objectives of their opponents (white people), surely it qualifies.
For all Americans, this genocidal action is geographically closest to home and was prosecuted by our own government and grandfathers, (or great- or great- great-.) A glance at any socio-economic data will show Native American cultures still struggling to survive, much less recover.
Unfortunately, government has been inept and unsuccessful in fixing that problem. Or perhaps it is lack of interest or distraction by genocides across the oceans. It has been unaddressed. No one has given Native Americans any land in Manhattan -- or considered it.
Neither have we been interested in working with the International Criminal Court to declare this a genocide.
If we, Americans, think of genocides, we should begin with our own house.
I am not a Native American. As an American, I think it is important to clean our own house first.
For all Americans, this genocidal action is geographically closest to home and was prosecuted by our own government and grandfathers, (or great- or great- great-.) A glance at any socio-economic data will show Native American cultures still struggling to survive, much less recover.
Unfortunately, government has been inept and unsuccessful in fixing that problem. Or perhaps it is lack of interest or distraction by genocides across the oceans. It has been unaddressed. No one has given Native Americans any land in Manhattan -- or considered it.
Neither have we been interested in working with the International Criminal Court to declare this a genocide.
If we, Americans, think of genocides, we should begin with our own house.
I am not a Native American. As an American, I think it is important to clean our own house first.
114
@A.D.T.: Thanks for bringing up, in this context, one of this nation's two instances of mass genocide. The other is, of course, the forced importation and victimization of black Africans, with millions annihilated as well as enslaved. Our president might want to think about this long period of our own history while he defers taking action of any sort against the fiends in Khartoum.
31
There are American, European and African humanitarian workers at the moment in Khartoum and when an African friend was on mission in Darfur for five years, one was unable to send her anything via pouch because it was confiscated in Khartoum. She and her colleagues in Juba enjoyed webs of music and dance, and while they lived together in a compound, she would write 'we danced last night on the roof of our palace'.
She returned home and retired last year, but was called back on an emergency basis to Darfur - the friends that she had made were frightened and sorrowful, anxious to tell her of what had happened since she left, for the promises of the new South Sudan Government had failed, and life has become more precarious than ever.
Recently I sent her a magnificent panorama of the Nomad Tribes and their cattle in the Sudan, and we both prayed that they will never be approached by tourists and corrupted. But already, the last photograph shows one of these men with a rifle slung over naked his shoulder and it is this detail that was to catch our eye.
She returned home and retired last year, but was called back on an emergency basis to Darfur - the friends that she had made were frightened and sorrowful, anxious to tell her of what had happened since she left, for the promises of the new South Sudan Government had failed, and life has become more precarious than ever.
Recently I sent her a magnificent panorama of the Nomad Tribes and their cattle in the Sudan, and we both prayed that they will never be approached by tourists and corrupted. But already, the last photograph shows one of these men with a rifle slung over naked his shoulder and it is this detail that was to catch our eye.
As awful as what was done to the Indians was, it happened more than a century ago and it was not a genocide as that term is commonly defined. It does a disservice to the victims of genocide to so define it and it seems to me that we should focus on the crimes that are being committed in the here and now, including the ongoing oppression of Indians in Latin America, rather than focusing on something the people of hundreds of years ago did (and while you're at it, why no mention of the Africans who died in the slave trade?).
2
The selection here of what qualifies as a horror to be stopped is all things US foreign policy already opposes. The opposition is ineffectual in many cases, but it is not a defense of these crimes.
Some are bigger than others. How many deaths does it take? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? I'd agree that Kristof's examples all quality as enough, but those numbers in some cases accept smaller standards.
The Armenian Genocide was really ethnic cleansing, disregarding the risks of death to those sent off. Is ethnic cleansing also genocidal? I'd argue it is.
The problem with these standards is that they apply to things US foreign policy does not oppose, even things US foreign policy has done, and participating in now.
The bigger problem is not that we are ineffectual in opposing the things listed by Kristof, it is that we support and participate in more he isn't mentioning here.
Furthermore, we are blind to the prospect that some of what we are supporting is likely to get much worse, and we do nothing to prevent that.
Some are bigger than others. How many deaths does it take? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? I'd agree that Kristof's examples all quality as enough, but those numbers in some cases accept smaller standards.
The Armenian Genocide was really ethnic cleansing, disregarding the risks of death to those sent off. Is ethnic cleansing also genocidal? I'd argue it is.
The problem with these standards is that they apply to things US foreign policy does not oppose, even things US foreign policy has done, and participating in now.
The bigger problem is not that we are ineffectual in opposing the things listed by Kristof, it is that we support and participate in more he isn't mentioning here.
Furthermore, we are blind to the prospect that some of what we are supporting is likely to get much worse, and we do nothing to prevent that.
51
Mark Thomason is indignant at a supposed, "American genocide," but ignores that in the last 70 years the globe's population grew from 2 to 7 billion. Moreover, on every continent people of every race came to know a much higher avereage standard of life, i.e., much higher income, nutrition, literacy, and access to human rights and the gadgets of modernity. The US did not achieve all of that on her own, but it would not have happened without her. She was the predominant power and pushed her values. Washington directed int'l capital investments, and spread know how. Humankind has never made so much progress is in so short a time since leaving Africa.
As to the Indians, they had not yet invented the wheel, much less writing. They were largely hunter gatherers whose avocation was raiding neighboring tribes for women. When the white settlers appeared on the horizon the Indians raided them for their women and cattle. Of course the better armed and organized settlers, responding with equal ferocity, prevailed. What were they supposed to do, say, oh there are people here already, so we must return to Europe? In fact anthropologists like Levi Strauss determined that there were no more than 2 million Indians in all of America.
The Indians were never subject to a decision by settlers or their govts to systematically annihilate them. Their fate was largely determined by their bellicose warrior creed, and their susceptibility to European germs.
As to the Indians, they had not yet invented the wheel, much less writing. They were largely hunter gatherers whose avocation was raiding neighboring tribes for women. When the white settlers appeared on the horizon the Indians raided them for their women and cattle. Of course the better armed and organized settlers, responding with equal ferocity, prevailed. What were they supposed to do, say, oh there are people here already, so we must return to Europe? In fact anthropologists like Levi Strauss determined that there were no more than 2 million Indians in all of America.
The Indians were never subject to a decision by settlers or their govts to systematically annihilate them. Their fate was largely determined by their bellicose warrior creed, and their susceptibility to European germs.
8
That is remarkable, an actual defense of one of the greatest genocides in history.
Are there any other genocides that you would defend?
Are there any other people now whom you would nominate for another genocide?
Are there any other genocides that you would defend?
Are there any other people now whom you would nominate for another genocide?
10
Perhaps Sodium Chloride should read a little more history. The native americans were not quite as warrior like and primitive as he thinks.
And the point of the article is not about the past, but what we are to do today. There is nothing we can do to make it up to anyone whom we neglected and allowed to die in the past. Today, and what we do today, is the only thing that matters. Most of 'excuses' are just that. Have we no shame as a people for ignoring what is happening around us?
And the point of the article is not about the past, but what we are to do today. There is nothing we can do to make it up to anyone whom we neglected and allowed to die in the past. Today, and what we do today, is the only thing that matters. Most of 'excuses' are just that. Have we no shame as a people for ignoring what is happening around us?
7
The Holocaust has loomed large in my consciousness, later rather than sooner, as I was born in 1948 and the tenor of the times during most of my youth into my 30s was such that it was little spoken of. Since none of my extended family were survivors, I had no hint of what had happened. After the children of the survivors began to write and speak out, confrontation with the horrors of the Holocaust became a matter of much focus. I asked my father, who was a young adult when the liberation of the camps happened, what people knew at the time. He said that there were rumors and a few lines at the back of the paper here and there. But when he saw the newspaper pictures of the piled corpses in the liberated camps, he said that he thought it was propaganda. In fact, in upstate New York there was a camp for high ranking German military who were also shown pictures of the piles of corpses. They had the same reaction--that it was propaganda. Why? Because the human mind enters into a state of shock and denial when confronted with such horrors. In a film, The Long Journey Home, the narrator describes her experiences in attempting to help liberated survivors, during which time most doors to freedom were slammed in the faces of the surivors, who in many cases languished further time in the same camps where they had been tortured. So the denial extended well beyond reactions to photos in the news. Never underestimate the power of denial.